# STEROIDS FORUM > IGF-1 LR3, HGH, and INSULIN QUESTIONS >  HGH log- 4iu

## znak

Time for another six months (30 weeks) of hgh.

With a little help from my friends, I have assembled what I need for a safe, sane lean muscle program that is geared towards anti-aging, but still adds a little lean meat.

I will do six months of hgh at 4iu 5 on/2 off.

I will taper up to 4 ius in the first month adding .5 ius a week 
Week 1- 2 iu (am)
Week 2- 2.5 iu (am)
Week 3 3 iu (1.5 am/1.5 pm)
Week 4 4 iu (2.0 am/2/0 pm)

The only sides that I have had from hgh to date is lethargy and joint pain on a super long (11 hour) international flight. During week 8, I will make the same flight, so we will see what happens. I have never done 4 iu.

At Week ten I will do a 30 day course of Andriol at ten caps ed. I have heard good and bad things about this compound and want to see for myself what it will do for an aging, albeit very fit athlete.

Week 16 I will do a 10 week cycle of 100 prop eod with deca at 200 ew (love the joint lubrication) and will finish it with anavar at 60 mg ed for the last month. I am really keyed up to finally do a cycle at the end of hgh run. Last time I ran hgh this long, I had a hernia operation mid-cycle. Hopefully, I will have been luck this time.


Week one- Nothing to report. 

People that post that they are getting gains after week have go to share. Their medication is definitely stronger than mine. Nothing like a good, strong placebo and an active imagination.

One last note: All the medications that I will be using during their cycle was purchased legally, with a prescription. I am not a doctor, thus nothing is this log should be taken as medical advice. I will try to record as accurately as possible, what a prolonged hgh cycle will do with someone with the following stats:

61/ 207 lbs/ 50+ years old with extensive lifting and training experience.

My diet is also very much in control. 

Looking forward to this.

Special thanks to an old Bro out there that really helped make this happen.

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## BG

Very cool, looking foward to see how things workout.

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## Benches505

You say another 6 months, have you already done 6 months at a lower dosage? fat burning? skin?

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## znak

> You say another 6 months, have you already done 6 months at a lower dosage? fat burning? skin?


I did six month cycle a while ago and kept a log on this site. 

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...=131187&page=5

Check it out.

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## rodge

looking forward to keeping track of your new log.

good luck and keep us posted.

-rodge

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## Ufa

Are you still doing Saizen?

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## SPIKE

All looks great to me Z, looking forward in reading up on your results buddy.

Best of Luck....

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## vitor

Good luck!

Yust to coment on 1 thing,
Andriol halv life is 2 hours, so for optimal results you will need to take minimum 1 cap eoh-24/7 which will be equal 12 caps per day. Andriol is greate when used correct.

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## jdavis2007

I read your last log, and I'm curious to read this one as I'm just now starting GH...will start out at 2iu 5 on/2off, then eventually procede to 4iu 5on/2off...should be very informative...!

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## znak

Week 2.

Still not all that much to report. 

I am proud to say that I am sleeping like a fricking hamster for the people who think that getting sides is the proof that the hgh is legit. This happens on every cycle that I have done. I can sleep in the middle of the day, night, afternoon 

I am sleeping very soundly at night also, which is a plus. Just don't ever feel rested.

Up to 2.5 iu with no joint issues.

That is about it. Writing more would amount to forum spam.

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## znak

Week Three-

The only thing that I can conclude (again) is that HGH takes time. 

My sides are doing well, feeling my joints more than usual. Like a light case of carpel tunnel in my wrists. And I still would make any mother hamster proud. I can fall asleep on a dime.

Up to 3.5 iu, which is the most I have ever used. The sides are completely bearable. Ramping up seems to be the right thing to do.

Sleep is awesomedeep and restful.

Recovery after workouts seems to be faster, but could be psychological at this point.

I plan to take some pix next week for some before/after shots.

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## znak

> Good luck!
> 
> Yust to coment on 1 thing,
> Andriol halv life is 2 hours, so for optimal results you will need to take minimum 1 cap eoh-24/7 which will be equal 12 caps per day. Andriol is greate when used correct.


Look at the insert from the manufacturer. Point 5.2 says that the peak is 4-5 hours after administration. I was planning to take two caps with my meals, i.e. every two-three hours, which would mean that I would be in a "low" zone for three hours when I am sleeping. 

Why do you recommend 1 cap 24/7? 

I agree that having a smooth test level is a beautiful thing, but 24/7 may be a bit extreme.

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## vitor

Ive read a studie saying that "optimal peak levels" of andriol is aproxemently 2-hours, I have used it 3 times and ive noticed a big diffrence with the timing of dosing...(My bad about the halv-life,error).
1 cap eoh will fit the peak level, which will be minimum 12 caps ed. I would run it a little higher, its pretty mild.

If you get good results greate, if not you could try to adjust it spaced more evenly and se if it makes a change, it did for me.

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## znak

> Ive read studies saying that optimal peak levels of andriol is aproxemently 2-hours, I have used it 3 times and ive noticed a big diffrence with the timing of dosing...(My bad about the halv-life,error).



Nothing like real life experience. Thanks for the input. Will adjust accordingly when the time comes.

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## znak

I can say that the hgh has kicked in, but hgh is a subtle thing, especially when compared to AAS. The engineer in me hates this stuff because it is very difficult to quantify. 

With AAS, at start the cycle and you can bench a zillion pounds one time after five weeks you can press a zillion pounds five times and ten weeks later you can push a zillion pounds tens times. You can plot your changes on a piece of paper and draw a line. 

And unless you are weight training in Ethiopia or Somalia or work at a McDonalds, when you are using test you can do the same with your weight. 

This is not the case with HGH. IN the last three and a half weeks, I have lost a half inch on my waist, but it looks tighter. You can see it, but what you see dont jive with what you measure.

I can safely say the HGH has kicked in because I definitely feel my joints. That is subjective, but very definite. The rest is very subjective. 

My overall sense well-being is better. My mood is good, but I dont feel like I can eat broken glass and shit diamonds like I do when I am using test.

My skin is looking better. People are commenting on how well-rested I look. But that is not really something that I can measure and then repeat it and say that after x ius of hgh, you skin will be 37.9603% tighter based on a caliper test. 

I have more morning wood and there is a generally happier feeling down there, especially during sex, but it like the raging wood and the rock hard pecker I get with test that I can use to poke holes in sheet rock.

Bottomline- it takes about 3-4 weeks for an hgh deficient fifty year, well trained male athlete to get subjective results from HGH. 

Total IUs used to date- 49.5

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## juicer34

Love it cant wait to hear more

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## iouri

Hey, znak.
I'm following your threads and thinking of trying HGH myself. Thank you or all the info.
Can you explain how did you feel after your last cycle, when you stopped taking HGH? Was there any kind of decrease in energy, sleep quality etc.?

Thanks

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## znak

Week 5

The results are still subjective, but I am getting tighter. My abs are looking good, there is less and less pudge to grab for the sub-q injections and my facial skin is looking fresher. There really does seem to be some spot reduction around the injection sites. I have purchased calipers and will measure this to make sure.

My weight has gone down two pounds (205 lbs), but my height has remained the same (and yes, you can drink winny).

The lethargy of the first weeks is gone. I am like a real normal person during the day, but am still getting that wonderful, deep restful HGH sleep at night. The deep sleep in and of itself must be one of the reasons that my skin looks betterI really am well rested. 

My mood and energy are both very good and have been for a couple weeks. Once again, this result is subjective, but the duration seems to support the thesis of chemical enhancement.

At the risk of repeating myself, I have got to say that HGH has nothing like caveman, chest thumping results that I get from AAS, but even after only a little over a half a kit, I feel like I am getting a facelift (all over my body) in slow motion. 

Pretty cool stuff.

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## pazfink

Fantastic thread,keep up the good work.

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## znak

> Hey, znak.
> I'm following your threads and thinking of trying HGH myself. Thank you or all the info.
> Can you explain how did you feel after your last cycle, when you stopped taking HGH? Was there any kind of decrease in energy, sleep quality etc.?
> 
> Thanks


After the last cycle, there was a slow imperceptable change back to "normalcy". HGH is pretty slow subtle stuff at the dosages I have used.

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## znak

Week6

Things just keep getting better. Now I can remember why I was so jazzed about HGH, on my last long cycle. This shit rocks.

All the sides are gone. My wrist joints are AOK. I am really slowly morphingI have lost an inch on my waist, I am now back down to a real 32 inches and am up three pounds. Skin is tightening up everywhere. Seriously, this is cool. I was reading over my last log about how everyone thought I looked younger than my younger brother, on week 5 that is happening again. My skin looks simply marvelous. I shit you not.

I am so happy that I decided not to wait for the andriol cycle. Last time I went six months, I had a hernia and could not do my test cycle, so this time I put in TWO cycles and am starting early to make sure I dont get screwed out of the joy of an hgh/test cycle.

I took the advice posted to me on this thread and adapted the cycle half way between what was suggested and what I was planning--. I am taking two caps every four hours for a total of eight a day. Cool thing is that on day three I can feel the synergy. To check the effects, I am going to use the first exercise on arms day, barbell curl, as a control. I will be using reps as the control and not weight. With my control weight, I can currently do six reps. (I could post the weight, but what is the point? Ever notice that on the internet, everyone benches 450 and has a twelve inch dick? Ill avoid posting that I am curling 280 for reps and just tell you the rep increase or lack thereof without posting the weight).

HGH does have a slight effect on BP. My resting blood pressure has gone from and average of about 112/68 at 62 heart beat per minute to about 118/74 at 66 heart beats per minute. I measure my BP upon rising (pre shower), during my lunch break and before bed. The numbers above are the average of all three over the course of a week, so there definitely is a slight rise.

Good stuff happening.

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## rodge

keep up the good work and i'm glad to hear all is going great.

enjoy  :Smilie: 

-rodge

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## rockbottom

> Week6
> 
> Things just keep getting better. Now I can remember why I was so jazzed about HGH, on my last long cycle. This shit rocks.
> 
> All the sides are gone. My wrist joints are AOK. I am really slowly morphingI have lost an inch on my waist, I am now back down to a real 32 inches and am up three pounds. Skin is tightening up everywhere. Seriously, this is cool. I was reading over my last log about how everyone thought I looked younger than my younger brother, on week 5 that is happening again. My skin looks simply marvelous. I shit you not.
> 
> I am so happy that I decided not to wait for the andriol cycle. Last time I went six months, I had a hernia and could not do my test cycle, so this time I put in TWO cycles and am starting early to make sure I dont get screwed out of the joy of an hgh/test cycle.
> 
> I took the advice posted to me on this thread and adapted the cycle half way between what was suggested and what I was planning--. I am taking two caps every four hours for a total of eight a day. Cool thing is that on day three I can feel the synergy. To check the effects, I am going to use the first exercise on arms day, barbell curl, as a control. I will be using reps as the control and not weight. With my control weight, I can currently do six reps. (I could post the weight, but what is the point? Ever notice that on the internet, everyone benches 450 and has a twelve inch dick? Ill avoid posting that I am curling 280 for reps and just tell you the rep increase or lack thereof without posting the weight).
> ...


Very cool. Just ordered a bunch of Jins. I'll be following your progress.

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## Microbrew

Sounds great

Micro

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## FranKieC

Znak What kind of GH?

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## znak

> Znak What kind of GH?


Saizen. Doctor prescribed.  :7up:

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## rodge

> Saizen. Doctor prescribed.


lucky b*stard  :Frown:  

-rodge

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## Ufa

> Saizen. Doctor prescribed.


The real deal. Other GH products are a distant second.

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## BG

Great to hear things are going so well.

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## Ufa

> Great to hear things are going so well.


Dam, reading this thread makes me want to pick up the phone an
order a few 8.8mg bottles.

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## BG

> Dam, reading this thread makes me want to pick up the phone an
> order a few 8.8mg bottles.


I just dropped down to 4iu's ed, maybe I should have stayed at 8. :Wink/Grin:   :LOL:

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## Ufa

> I just dropped down to 4iu's ed, maybe I should have stayed at 8.


4 iu's of good stuff should be plenty.

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## FranKieC

I want some Saizen!!!!! lol

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## znak

The beat goes on.

I continue to go drop body fat all over my body, which is absolutely amazing. The last time I did a long cycle, I got striation on my deltoids. They never went away. Now I am noticing that my chest has a clear separation between my upper and lower pec. Looks awesome. Yeah, I know that it is worthless without pictures and I will post some before after pictures in another month.

Another cool thing that happened is that the increase in my blood pressure was temporary. It would seem that as my body got used to the elevated levels of hgh that it went back to homeostasis. My blood pressure is back to exactly what it was before I started the cycle.

Adriol is lived up to everything that you have read about itit is not for body building. The increase in test is hardly noticeable and the things are not cheap. They dont effect your blood pressure, but dont really seem to effect your test level either. Oh, well. Thank god for var.

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## vitor

> The beat goes on.
> 
> I continue to go drop body fat all over my body, which is absolutely amazing. The last time I did a long cycle, I got striation on my deltoids. They never went away. Now I am noticing that my chest has a clear separation between my upper and lower pec. Looks awesome. Yeah, I know that it is worthless without pictures and I will post some before after pictures in another month.
> 
> Another cool thing that happened is that the increase in my blood pressure was temporary. It would seem that as my body got used to the elevated levels of hgh that it went back to homeostasis. My blood pressure is back to exactly what it was before I started the cycle.
> 
> Adriol is lived up to everything that you have read about itit is not for body building. The increase in test is hardly noticeable and the things are not cheap. They dont effect your blood pressure, but dont really seem to effect your test level either. Oh, well. Thank god for var.


Greate to see things are going well, looking forward to the pics.

On a side note; Ime not suprised you dont get the effects of Andriol at the way youre taking it. Like I said, it needs to be taked eoh, at "minimum" 12 caps ed, preferrably around 20+ caps a/day for significant results imo.

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## plzr8

> Like I said, it needs to be taked eoh, at "minimum" 12 caps ed, preferrably around 20+ caps a/day for significant results imo.


man a shot of test sounds soooooo much easier  :Wink/Grin:

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## znak

> Greate to see things are going well, looking forward to the pics.
> 
> On a side note; Ime not suprised you dont get the effects of Andriol at the way youre taking it. Like I said, it needs to be taked eoh, at "minimum" 12 caps ed, preferrably around 20+ caps a/day for significant results imo.


I am taking ten a day. Judging by results so far, I could pop them like peanuts and would never get to one good old fashioned injection of prop.

I have heard they the effect really varies from person to person. It doesn't seem to work for me.

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## znak

I probably should not have jumped the gun with the andriol . 

Again good stuff is happening- I can curl my control weight for ten clean reps, which is a solid change (four clean reps with my max weight). I am also getting that wow, this is really light! feeling that you get when gear starts kicking in. I get a rep or two on every exercise, so this should turn into some gains down the road.

Here is a picture two months into the cycle. I am relaxed and not pumped in the picture so that there is an objective look at my body fat. In this picture I weigh 206. I am 61

I recognize that I am not Mr. O material, but am living breathing proof that some people do live past fifty.

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## plzr8

looking really good bro!

where do you live, paradise?  :Wink/Grin:

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## jbarkley

Look great man! Since I have 18 more months to 50, it's good to see!

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## znak

Life is beautiful. I am sleeping very well. My skin is looking healthy. The anti-aging properties of this stuff are kicking in big time. I am beginning to wonder why I am not using this stuff year round.

My marvelous, state of the art, Andriol cycle gave me four pounds in a month. Zero strength increase. The court is out on this compound for me anywaynot worth it. My experience seems to be that the more complicated the compound, the harder it gets. Any TRT clinic in the world will prescribe cypionate . My advice is to take it. It is really a hassle to remember to take Andriol and the results fall far short of stunning.

But HGH, there is a different story. I will wait another two months and post a mid-cycle picture, but believe me, this is cool. Striations are appearing all over the place. I love the top lighting in the gymI feel fu,king awesome with a pump and see the line that are getting carved in my delts and chest. I really have got to figure out their lighting it is very good for the ego!

164.2 ius used to date.

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## ***xxx***

thanks for sharing!

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## Superhuman

> I probably should not have jumped the gun with the andriol . 
> 
> Again good stuff is happening- I can curl my control weight for ten clean reps, which is a solid change (four clean reps with my max weight). I am also getting that wow, this is really light! feeling that you get when gear starts kicking in. I get a rep or two on every exercise, so this should turn into some gains down the road.
> 
> Here is a picture two months into the cycle. I am relaxed and not pumped in the picture so that there is an objective look at my body fat. In this picture I weigh 206. I am 61
> 
> I recognize that I am not Mr. O material, but am living breathing proof that some people do live past fifty.


Whoa, you look like my dad! ...is that you?

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## znak

> Whoa, you look like my dad! ...is that you?


Son, I don't know how to break this to you, but your father is a juicehead.

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## plzr8

> Son, I don't know how to break this to you, but your father is a juicehead.


 :Haha:

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## znak

Some weird, not so good stuff happened after the andriol cycle. My semen was discolored (turned kind of brownish), which was a sign that there was something not good happening with my prostate.

After a few trips to the doc, I am good as new and will be probably a little more paranoid/cautious about AAS doses in the future. Pretty scary shit.

I also decided to tray Melanotan II, after I got my prostate stuff cleared up. Once again, the jury is out on this product too. I read that you are supposed to ramp up with the dose and thank God in heaven above that I didI was so nauseous the first week it was unreal and I was only taking .5mg and am supposed to be taking three times that! 

I now have brown/black freckles all over my body. It looks like I was standing next to a puddle of really dark swamp water and someone hit it at ninety miles an hour. I have used 20 mg so far. Pretty expensive freckles.

Hgh however is Gods gift to man. My delts are so fricking vascular now that I look like I could fit into a Flex photo shoot for 220 pounders. I shit you know, this is really cool. My whole abdominal region has tightened up, my skin looks healthy, and I am sleeping like a baby.

I will have pics within two week.

HGH rocks.

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## Kale

> Some weird, not so good stuff happened after the andriol cycle. My semen was discolored (turned kind of brownish), which was a sign that there was something not good happening with my prostate.
> 
> After a few trips to the doc, I am good as new and will be probably a little more paranoid/cautious about AAS doses in the future. Pretty scary shit.
> 
> I also decided to tray Melanotan II, after I got my prostate stuff cleared up. Once again, the jury is out on this product too. I read that you are supposed to ramp up with the dose and thank God in heaven above that I didI was so nauseous the first week it was unreal and I was only taking .5mg and am supposed to be taking three times that! 
> 
> I now have brown/black freckles all over my body. It looks like I was standing next to a puddle of really dark swamp water and someone hit it at ninety miles an hour. I have used 20 mg so far. Pretty expensive freckles.
> 
> Hgh however is Gods gift to man. My delts are so fricking vascular now that I look like I could fit into a Flex photo shoot for 220 pounders. I shit you know, this is really cool. My whole abdominal region has tightened up, my skin looks healthy, and I am sleeping like a baby.
> ...


Dude what did the Dr say about your Prostate ?

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## rockbottom

My god, Kale. Cut it out! We all know she's hot already.

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## rockbottom

> Some weird, not so good stuff happened after the andriol cycle. My semen was discolored (turned kind of brownish), which was a sign that there was something not good happening with my prostate.
> 
> After a few trips to the doc, I am good as new and will be probably a little more paranoid/cautious about AAS doses in the future. Pretty scary shit.
> 
> I also decided to tray Melanotan II, after I got my prostate stuff cleared up. Once again, the jury is out on this product too. I read that you are supposed to ramp up with the dose and thank God in heaven above that I didI was so nauseous the first week it was unreal and I was only taking .5mg and am supposed to be taking three times that! 
> 
> I now have brown/black freckles all over my body. It looks like I was standing next to a puddle of really dark swamp water and someone hit it at ninety miles an hour. I have used 20 mg so far. Pretty expensive freckles.
> 
> Hgh however is Gods gift to man. My delts are so fricking vascular now that I look like I could fit into a Flex photo shoot for 220 pounders. I shit you know, this is really cool. My whole abdominal region has tightened up, my skin looks healthy, and I am sleeping like a baby.
> ...


Brown seiman? Butt sex?

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## znak

> Dude what did the Dr say about your Prostate ?


Seemed like a popped a capillary. The Andriol also enlarged it. Put me on an anti-inflammitory and things are ok now. Back to normal.

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## znak

I was looking in the mirror at the gym the other day and liked what I saw. Not perfect, but getting better year after year, month after month.

I am now going on my sixth year of serious lifting. I work and live outside the US and travel back to home in Florida about twice a year. The snap shots of the Golds gym where I work out in Florida really say it all. When you see people everyday, you dont notice change (or lack thereof), but when you see people (kids especially) once every six months, you can really see changes.

 90% of all the guys in the gym are still lifting the same weight. 

 5% are juicing seriously and have gotten truly huge.

 5% are really looking good.

When I was in Florida a couple of weeks ago, I took a look around and tried to break the code. I think I have it and was wondering if you bros have noticed the same thing.

1) Most people talk way too much. They talk for so **** long between sets, it is amazing that they get a work out at all. I do 6 sets of ten reps for three exercises every time I go to the gym. I work out exactly one hour. That is an average of 3 reps a minute the WHOLE time I am there. (I am including warm up here). I listen to headphone. I rarely say ten words during a work out and I work out with a partner! (Uh, you done here?) 

2) The weights seem to be selected at random. The guys are doing lat pulls with 200-250 pounds, rocking back and forth, almost hitting their head on the floor. Or put so fricking much weight on the bar that when theyre doing curls, the only muscle not working is the bicep! They jerk around for 2-3 sets and then go talk to somebody. Or the guy easily pushes 220 pounds for ten reps, walks around for a half hour and then pushes it for ten more. No wonder people arent sore after their work outs, they dont recruit any new fiber. He can push 220 until the cows come home and he wont get one gram of growth. I bet you have seen it yourself. Says he is on a plateau. Will probably die there. Pick the guy with the body you really want and watch how he lifts. Ill bet that he uses total range of motion using a weight that you think you could do! The difference is your movement is choppy and jerky and he moves it cleanly and fluidly. Plus, he adds a bit more weight each time. Come back in six months and he wont have a gazillion pounds on the bar, but there will be another 10-15 and he will be moving just as smoothly. 

3) I have heard people say that they just dont sweat, but I dont believe it. If you are pushing 90% of your one rep max six times and then really try to do it again in 120 seconds, you will sweat. You may not push it all six times, but if you put your guts into the attempt, ooops, you will break a sweat. You have to! Strain causes the body to overheat, sweat is natures way of cooling you down. If you arent sweating- you are not pushing the envelope and you will not have growth/change. Look at Coleman, look at Cutler. They are stronger that you and I will ever be, but they sweat like hell. Why? They are pushing weights that are around their max for that number of reps for that exercise.

4) It all boils down to intensity. The 5% of people (and a most of the juicers, but not all) that go to the gym with a plan, do it and then go home. You have to push yourself to get changes. Only you really know how much you can do. If you go to the gym ready to kick a$$ for a hour four times a week, you WILL completely change your body in a couple years. Not in a couple weeks, it will take you years of work and a change in life style, regardless of what you are using.

The cool part is that the results come fast and easy in the beginning. The hard part is having to dial up your intensity every time you hit a new plateau/level. Watching your veins popping out of your delts helps you to stay focused, but the hgh added only a slight edge.

I see people post here all the time looking for a magic pill. HGH will help you, but it is a very expensive way to get a 5-10% advantage. For people like me, over fifty, solid diet, solid training foundation and a happy wallet, it can be a good tool. It is not, a magic pill.

Having a solid work-out and knowing and learning your body is a lot more important than hgh or juice.

Dollar for dollar, there is probably nothing that gives less definitive results than HGH (Food, gear, then hgh). While I am ecstatic over my results from this cycle so far, realistically 95% of it, is still just plain old hard work.

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## rodge

> realistically 95% of it, is still just plain old hard work


amen.

-rodge

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## sundancekid

great post

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## hardgainer1

seeing that photo is making me look forward to 50( double my age about), looking great bro, hope for us all

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## Xander74

Hi Znack-
Thanks for all teh info. What do you think about taking GH before bedtime at 3 iu a day for 5 on 2 off? Do you think its better taken in the morning?

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## Johny-too-small

Excellent thread.

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## bigstylios

> I probably should not have jumped the gun with the andriol . 
> 
> Again good stuff is happening- I can curl my control weight for ten clean reps, which is a solid change (four clean reps with my max weight). I am also getting that wow, this is really light! feeling that you get when gear starts kicking in. I get a rep or two on every exercise, so this should turn into some gains down the road.
> 
> Here is a picture two months into the cycle. I am relaxed and not pumped in the picture so that there is an objective look at my body fat. In this picture I weigh 206. I am 61
> 
> I recognize that I am not Mr. O material, but am living breathing proof that some people do live past fifty.


 WELL YOU COULD PASS FOR 35 OR SO.......NOT BAD.

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## ph34rsh4ck

what is your diet lookin like through this whole cycle?

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## jbarkley

Glad to hear everything is good with the prostate....have you seen yourself darken up yet? Had as UFC fight night party last night, half of the people that came wanted to find out about the darker skin. Best of luck with all things....Livestrong Bro!

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## znak

My diet is very clean. Five meals a day. One cheat day a week (up to two glases of wine or sorbet ice cream.)

I stopped the melanotan entirely. I have black freckes everywhere-- face, eyelids... I live in the tropics now, so I will use the real sun.

I think you can see the differences in this "half way picture".

znak

----------


## jbarkley

> My diet is very clean. Five meals a day. One cheat day a week (up to two glases of wine or sorbet ice cream.)
> 
> I stopped the melanotan entirely. I have black freckes everywhere-- face, eyelids... I live in the tropics now, so I will use the real sun.
> 
> I think you can see the differences in this "half way picture".
> 
> znak


Sorry to hear about the Melanotan....but you're looking great! What a head of hair as well. Remember when we we're kids and we thought 50 was old. Things have changed and with the advent of this technology....we might never get "old"!

Livestrong!

----------


## znak

> Things have changed and with the advent of this technology....we might never get "old"!
> 
> Livestrong!


The key thing is diet, good work out and all things in moderation.

----------


## jbarkley

> The key thing is diet, good work out and all things in moderation.


Absolutley, after I was diagnosed with cancer two years ago, I perfected my diet and I am sure this was the reason I recovered so quickly...

----------


## znak

I went to the doctor today and got the results from my blood test. PSA is normal, so looks like I just popped a capillary. Doctor said that type of thing was normal for a sexually active athlete that refuses to get old. 

He also asked me if I had taken some vacation. My face is really looking better (need all the help I can get). The skin is fresher, more toned. Stress lines have noticibly relaxed. There is enough of a difference that I can see it myself in the mirror. 

Once again it is very difficult to quantify, but it is very real.

Half way into this hgh cycle I have completely changed by workout. I used to lift pretty old school- i.e. heavy weight/low reps. 90% 1RM for four type work outs. For the last month, I have been doing low weight for 20-30 reps, ulta clean, with a squeeze at the top and never taking the tension off the muscle at the bottom. I read an article that this type of workout uses all three types of muscle (fast, slow, medium twitch) and thought I would try it while I was freaking over blood in my sperm. 

Anyway, it is awesome. You get pumps to fricking die for and the growth is happening week after week-- and I am over fifty!!! You leave the gym trashed. People even comment that you look like king kong your muscles are so engorged. 

Don't believe me? Try leg extension alone. I can slop the stack for about 15 reps, but I use 110 lbs for thirty. Up hold for three, and lower, but DO NOT relax and the bottom. Six sets and your legs will be screaming the next day. I can squat four plate on a side for ten. I do thirty with two plates for six sets. 
Here the exercise is kind of like in slow motion so that there is always tension in the muscle.

OK, I know the super experienced bro are reading this and saying that is what they always do...

Which is probably why they are huge and I am not.

----------


## znak

Just got back from a two week buisness trip. 

Saw people that I have not seen since I started the cycle. The universal opinion was that I looked fresh, bright... like I had been on vacation. Hgh is marvelous in this regard. You really do look better. 

The melanotan was also very noticible to people that weren't involved in freaking out over the black spots on my face (namely me). Everyone was blown away by my tan, so I guess the shit works if you don't mind having ink spots all over your body! 

Packing the stuff was a breeze. I put the vials inside the bag of ten syringes. Looked very OBVIOUS on the x-ray, but was never asked at any of the 16 check points I went through in three countries what it was.

Kind of a weird feeling watching your gear float by... Thank god for scripts!

----------


## znak

The fun will now begin.

I am twelve weeks in to my hgh cycle and am loving it. The anti-aging properties of this stuff are not over rated. My skin looks a world better, my eyes have tightened up and the quality sleep is racking up to a general overall good feeling.

My strength has not changed at all. I have read a lot of posts that indicate that people are getting gains in strength and size from hgh alone. I can say that this has not been the case for me. Unfortunately, my travel schedule has been so hectic that I may have even lost strength. My weight is completely stable at 210 lbs, but my waist is down for about 33 1/2 to about 31 ½

So far I am really happy with the results. 

I started a test e/deca cycle today. I will be using 500 test e and 200 deca ew for 10 weeks. 

Will keep you posted and will post pix as I grow!

----------


## rodge

good luck on the cycle znak.

-rodge

----------


## znak

The place that I work put in a gym (now there is a novel thought) and I have been using my lunch hour to do 45 minutes of interval training on the cardio equipment and then 15 minutes of abs in addition to my 4x a week split.

All I can say, is Holy shit! The combination of being three months into this cycle and the little added cardio has just jacked my metabolism out of this world. I lost EIGHT pound an inch on my waist in a week!

I wanted to lose a little fat, but this is out of hand for me, but a good data point for bros using hgh to cut with.

A little cardio on hgh, goes a long way.

----------


## soo2bhuge

how many iu's are you now per day?

----------


## znak

> how many iu's are you now per day?


4 iu.

2iu AM and 2 iu PM

----------


## Triposinator

Glad you're getting results Znak. I'm 51, 5'9 and 190 @ 10% BF.

I did Hgh for 7 months (Jin) 4IU/day and really can't say it did anything for me. 

Test E was infinately more effective. Only thing Hgh did for me was fix some nagging tendonitis.

I will not do Hgh again. Expensive, Pain in the ass to store, mix and dose. 




> The fun will now begin.
> 
> I am twelve weeks in to my hgh cycle and am loving it. The anti-aging properties of this stuff are not over rated. My skin looks a world better, my eyes have tightened up and the quality sleep is racking up to a general overall good feeling.
> 
> My strength has not changed at all. I have read a lot of posts that indicate that people are getting gains in strength and size from hgh alone. I can say that this has not been the case for me. Unfortunately, my travel schedule has been so hectic that I may have even lost strength. My weight is completely stable at 210 lbs, but my waist is down for about 33 1/2 to about 31 ½
> 
> So far I am really happy with the results. 
> 
> I started a test e/deca cycle today. I will be using 500 test e and 200 deca ew for 10 weeks. 
> ...

----------


## znak

> Glad you're getting results Znak. I'm 51, 5'9 and 190 @ 10% BF.
> 
> I did Hgh for 7 months (Jin) 4IU/day and really can't say it did anything for me. 
> 
> Test E was infinately more effective. Only thing Hgh did for me was fix some nagging tendonitis.
> 
> I will not do Hgh again. Expensive, Pain in the ass to store, mix and dose.



This is really the issue that I have tried to address in my logs. There is NO DOUBT that AAS has more noticible, quantifiable bang for the buck. 

My results seem to indicate that HGH is a waste of money in the dosages that I have used IF you are young AND not at or near your natty potential. 

That said, hgh has a very strong place in my regime. I am well over 50, thus have different issues that I need to address. One is low natural IGF-1. 

I look better on HGH. That is a fact. My skin looks better. I look and feel heathier. I sleep better. This is subjective, but I have heard it for months now, so it is fact.

2 ius for six months had no anabolic effect. Nor did I expect it to have.

4 ius also does not seem to have an anabolic effect. I will soon be able to comment if it adds sattelite cells as purported. 

Key to HGH is having the right expectations and needs.

----------


## znak

Kind of strange stuff happening. I have been doing 45 minutes of interval cardio training of the bike at works and my weight is plummeting. I am eating the same as before… clean six meals a day, but this is pretty radical. I have lost 10 pounds! My metabolism must be rev’ed out of this world.

I used to wonder why everyone touted the weight loss side of hgh, now I have figured it out. The combination of added cardio and hgh is just melting the fat off me. 

Will post pix after my vacation next week as a data point before the gear kicks in.

HGH + added cardio = significant fat burning.

WOW

----------


## GoingPro

What has the bloating been like, if any. What do you do for it?

----------


## znak

> What has the bloating been like, if any. What do you do for it?



I do not get any bloating from hgh. My joints feel like they are bloated in the first five-six weeks of a cycle, but then the feeling passes.

HGH does not seem to make me hold water, to the contrary, I seem to be shedding it rapidly.

Just got back from a shoulder work-out. I can almost count the fibers when I do lateral raises. 

I am really cutting up.

----------


## prealdeal

> Kind of strange stuff happening. I have been doing 45 minutes of interval cardio training of the bike at works and my weight is plummeting. I am eating the same as before clean six meals a day, but this is pretty radical. I have lost 10 pounds! My metabolism must be reved out of this world.
> 
> I used to wonder why everyone touted the weight loss side of hgh, now I have figured it out. The combination of added cardio and hgh is just melting the fat off me. 
> 
> Will post pix after my vacation next week as a data point before the gear kicks in.
> 
> HGH + added cardio = significant fat burning.
> 
> WOW


did u do any cardio b4 or just very lttle

----------


## znak

> did u do any cardio b4 or just very lttle



I used to do one 45 minutes session a week, now I am doing three or four.

I agree that I am burning more calories, but I am also eating to compensate.

My goal is to maintain or gain and am a surprised as marked changed in metabolic rate.

It is clearly hgh assisted.

I went from 209 to 199 in a week. I don't remember losing weight that fast since college wrestling.

----------


## Fixr

Great reading Znak. How is everything going since you started the Test/Deca cycle? Any noticeable changes? ie: mood,sleep,feeling in the gym?
I am 6 weeks in to my GH cycle(4iu a day split) and about to start a Test E/EQ cycle(first cycle ever) and was wondering how the combo of the GH and anabolics feels?
I also am keeping a log in the over 30 forum, but it doesnt seem to have entertaining feel of your log. Keep it up!

----------


## znak

> Great reading Znak. How is everything going since you started the Test/Deca cycle? Any noticeable changes? ie: mood,sleep,feeling in the gym?
> I am 6 weeks in to my GH cycle(4iu a day split) and about to start a Test E/EQ cycle(first cycle ever) and was wondering how the combo of the GH and anabolics feels?
> I also am keeping a log in the over 30 forum, but it doesnt seem to have entertaining feel of your log. Keep it up!


I am only two weeks into my test cycle, so I am not at that "I can eat broken glass and shit diamonds" phase, but I can definitely feel the strength improving, lot more confident on the last couple reps of my last sets.

I weighed 197, hungry and buck naked this morning. This is the first time in about 5 years that I have been under 200. My pants are getting big in the waist and if I suck it in when I am wearing a suit, my pants go down a couple inches and my cuffs drag.

Not what I was planning on, but I guess I had a little more body fat that I was telling myself I had!

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## rodge

> INot what I was planning on, but I guess I had a little more body fat that I was telling myself I had!


aren't we all  :LOL:  

-rodge

----------


## Triposinator

Like I said, I'm glad you are getting results. I got no visible results - the skin, the sleep NONE . Nobody told me I was sleeping better though  :Smilie: 

The trouble is most people mix AAS with HGH so "pure" results are hard to pin down - I did NOTHING other that Hgh - same diet, same workouts.

The benefits touted by tha "anti-aging community" are mostly based upon SELF-evaluation by senior citizens with no actual measurements. 

For the money most people spend on Hgh they could get a very good set of cardio equipent for their home and REALLY melt weight off  :Smilie: 




> I look better on HGH. That is a fact. My skin looks better. I look and feel heathier. I sleep better. This is subjective, but I have heard it for months now, so it is fact.

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## znak

> Like I said, I'm glad you are getting results. I got no visible results - the skin, the sleep NONE . Nobody told me I was sleeping better though 
> 
> The trouble is most people mix AAS with HGH so "pure" results are hard to pin down - I did NOTHING other that Hgh - same diet, same workouts.
> 
> The benefits touted by tha "anti-aging community" are mostly based upon SELF-evaluation by senior citizens with no actual measurements. 
> 
> For the money most people spend on Hgh they could get a very good set of cardio equipent for their home and REALLY melt weight off


And like I said and have posted throughout this thread-- You want bang for your buck, do test-e with deca and do cardio.

We seem to be in violent agreement.

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## znak

Things are beginning to happen.

One month into the test cycle and loving it. The deca has taken the shred off that I had going there when I upped the cardio, but I love what it does for my joints. The test has obviously stopped the weight loss dead in its tracks and I am now going up slowly in weight.

My strength is, well, everyone knows what happens in week 4 of a test cycle. Life is good.

As I suspected, my body is drinking up the test, there is an excellent synergy with the hgh and I believe that I will leave this cycle with a good 10 pound of lean muscle. 

I have cut back my cardio to three 45 minute sessions a week and am working out four time heavy (hour and fifteen minute) and three thirty minute sessions at lunch to finish off what I did not punish enough in the longer session.

The synergy is awesome. Warms the cockles of my little heart.

HGH should be mandatory for anyone over 50.

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## livestrong86

hey mate, glad to see your getting great results. keep up it up bro

i was just wondering if you are supplementing t4 while running the hgh?

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## znak

> hey mate, glad to see your getting great results. keep up it up bro
> 
> i was just wondering if you are supplementing t4 while running the hgh?


I don't have any experience with T4. I am pretty old and pretty old school-- hgh, test and deca .

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## Decoder

By reading your log, im starting to see exactly why people say the gains from HGH are slow but worth it. It looks like you put on 8 pounds of lean muscle in 12 weeks from HGH? Which you will not lose?

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## Decoder

> Things are beginning to happen.
> 
> One month into the test cycle and loving it. The deca has taken the shred off that I had going there when I upped the cardio, but I love what it does for my joints. The test has obviously stopped the weight loss dead in its tracks and I am now going up slowly in weight.
> 
> My strength is, well, everyone knows what happens in week 4 of a test cycle. Life is good.
> 
> As I suspected, my body is drinking up the test, there is an excellent synergy with the hgh and I believe that I will leave this cycle with a good 10 pound of lean muscle. 
> 
> I have cut back my cardio to three 45 minute sessions a week and am working out four time heavy (hour and fifteen minute) and three thirty minute sessions at lunch to finish off what I did not punish enough in the longer session.
> ...



My strength is, well, everyone knows what happens in week 4 of a test cycle. Life is good. <--- nice lol

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## znak

Time flys when you are doing a lot of flying. Been traveling so much that I think I have lost some of the synergy that I could have gained if I would have just stayed home and ate steak, but on the other hand there is nothing like doing business with a butt full of test. 

I am beginning to believe that the only reason God made our test levels fall off, is to give young men a chance with the babes. Sleeping well, strength is out the roof, I can poke holes in a **** can with my pecker morning, noon and night. Now I know how the rich kids felt in collegeyou got the car, the cash and raging wood. Does it get any better than this?

100 ius left in this cycle and I am already missing it. Looks like this journal might last nine months.

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## ***xxx***

sounds great - any updateon the stats?

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## znak

> sounds great - any updateon the stats?


Up 4.5 kg and my waist is down 4 cm. It is like the juice is just getting sucked up. As I posted earlier, I have lost some vascularity, but that is complete normal for a cycle with Deca .

Great cycle, bros, this is a really great way to use a sane amount of gear and get results.

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## ***xxx***

wow, sounds great - though I expect that u get better results than a 30 year old with hgh. I hope it will still be affordable when I m 50  :Wink/Grin:  though I ll testing my igf soon again, and if it s low I ll supplement it for life.

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## ginkobulloba

Awesome log dude. I'm about 4 weeks in, just got to 4iu's per day and life is damn good.

"Now I know how the rich kids felt in collegeyou got the car, the cash and raging wood. Does it get any better than this?"  :Wink/Grin:

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## znak

The beat goes on
Strength is through the roof, breaking personal bests every time I go to the gym. I have never been this strong. Ever. 

I have added 20 pounds to my maximum ever bench and squatting 405 for reps like there is no tomorrow. 405 used to kick my butt, I would be huffing and puffing by the fourth rep, veins sticking out my neck a half inch and now I am in the zone on rep twelve. The synergy is awesome. Worth waiting for.

Now that I am back home, I am eating right, regularly and it is showing. I have lost a lot of the bloat that came from eating when ever and all the free cocktails in business class. I mean I have restraint, but refusing wine for nine hours when you there isnt anything else to do is beyond me and beyond my comprehension. I will never be a Mr. O I am happy just looking good and restricting my diet to keep me healthy.

The spot that I go from the melanotan are still there. They have faded a bit now I look like someone went nuts doing pointillism using a dark brown marker rather than a black one. People that I have not seen in a while are always saying, shit, I dont remember you having so many freckles I give them the ol, Ive been driving a lot with the top down. Bottom-line is that the stuff is kind of a crap shoot. You will get dark, but you may become one of the few, the proud and the spotted.

Live is good.

----------


## ginkobulloba

Yeah, I am one of the few, proud and spotted. I started taking the melanotan at a much smaller dose a few times a week and no more spots showed up but I've gotten a hell of a lot darker. I can live with spots, people can't figure out where I come from because I am so dark. I'm the darkest white boy in town.

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## znak

> Yeah, I am one of the few, proud and spotted. I started taking the melanotan at a much smaller dose a few times a week and no more spots showed up but I've gotten a hell of a lot darker. I can live with spots, people can't figure out where I come from because I am so dark. I'm the darkest white boy in town.


I used only .5mg ed for like ten days and my spots added day after day. The bummer was that this happened when I had the brownish ejaculation I wrote about earlier in this post. I was freaked.

----------


## znak

This is actually getting kind of out of hand. My strength is really going insane. I am not the youngest member on this board and can tell you that bad shit starts happening after 40, but on the other hand a few creaks and pains is a lot better than pushing up daisies in a pine box. 

Anyway, this is the first time in my life when I can push more weight than I am comfortable with. I mean, I can keep adding and adding and adding and still push the weight. 

Squats are freaky. People over fifty are not designed to squat over 450. Well, at least not those of us that weigh 210 lbs. Those who do are begging for something to happen and what happens is not good. But when you can do it, why not do it?

Aye, there is the rub! 

I am really pulling myself in terms of weight and am doing tons of reps that I never thought imaginable. I shit you not, test and hgh is the $hit.

HGH without test is like getting a hummer without dipping your stick… feels great, but going all the way feels better.

----------


## ***xxx***

sounds great, keep it coming :Wink/Grin:

----------


## ironaddict69

znak how much lbs do you usually add from a just test cycle to your deads and bench? i dont see as much from it as everyone else but hell, i hit 315 today  :Big Grin:

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## znak

> znak how much lbs do you usually add from a just test cycle to your deads and bench? i dont see as much from it as everyone else but hell, i hit 315 today


From a test cycle I normally add about 20 pounds to my bench. With test and hgh, I am afraid to find out how much I have added. Seriously. Off cycle, I bench 110 kg (242 lbs) for five, yesterday I benched 140kg (308 lbs) for ten with assistance to smooth out the last four or five rep...

That is a HUGE difference. I really felt that I could have added at least 20 kg more, but am concerned that these old joints and tendons just are not meant to carry that weight.

Like I posted earlier. The synergy is awesome. I don't know if it is just me (being older and igf-1 deficient) or the nature of the combination, but hgh = test sums up to a lot more than I expected. I would never do test without hgh again (unless it becomes impossible to get)...

Freaking awesome!

----------


## Fixr

Great posts Znak, you should be a writer. I am cracking up every time I read one of your updates. The last few have really had me grinning ear to ear since I just added Test to my GH cycle this week.(my first cycle!- 2 shots in now) I had been waiting for almost 2 months for my PCT stuff and finally got it. Looking foward to results like yours, I hope. Keep posting, I am sure I am not alone when I say your log is great.

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## ironaddict69

righton man. ya hgh apparently strengthens joints and tendons alot as well, which would add lbs to the lifts. GH just wasnt worth the money for me, i only ran it for amonth, i had to stop because i was so tired on the stuff.

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## znak

> i only ran it for amonth, i had to stop because i was so tired on the stuff.



The fatique eventually goes away and transitions into a beautiful, restful state of being.

At the risk of sounding like a parrott, here is the reader's digest version of this log-- 

hgh is great for your skin, but a lot more expensive than staying out of the sun.

As an anabolic agent, hgh sucks... buy test.

But, hgh and test has a synergy that is totally as$-kicking.

----------


## znak

Back in the land of the beautiful women and grungy gyms. I travel to Russia periodically for work and when I am here, i work out in a gym that looks like a poster child for the heyday of weight-lifting... cement floors, a couple machines, free weights out the ying-yang [dbs go up to 90kg (198lbs)], rock music and a real honest to God brotherhood of hard core lifters. Everyone is a spotter, everyone helps out their bro, the vets get out advice and no snobs and no wimps. When the place gets too crowded, the owner calls a bench press elimination... he puts 100 kg (225lbs) on the bar and everyone takes a break and pushes it once. If you can't bench 225, you got to come back later. Love it, not lines, no waiting.

Anyway, this is a great time to be peaking on a cycle. Even though I was still jet-lagged to beat the fricking band, I stuck 405 on the bar and was squatting like their was no tomorrow. I mean, ****, when you are in a place where wearing spandex will get your head put through a wall, can feel the test in the air and are mid-cycle, there is no way you are going to start some high rep bull-shit and you go for it.

It took me almost ten minutes to walk the ten yards out of the gym, but the ache in my quad is what it is all about. 

The bros here that have squatted until they turned in to a rag-doll know just what I am talking about... and when the biggest mother in the gym, who out weighs you by over a sixty pounds, punches you on the shoulder as you are leaving and tells "not bad for an foreigner", you walk out back into your real life, just a little taller.

----------


## ginkobulloba

That's what I'm talking about man. I love gyms like that, a good gym is like heaven. Very cool. You ever make it to Thailand, which is the real land of beautiful women you are welcome at my gym.

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## znak

> That's what I'm talking about man. I love gyms like that, a good gym is like heaven. Very cool. You ever make it to Thailand, which is the real land of beautiful women you are welcome at my gym.


Where are you in Thailand? I get out to Phukhet and Phi-Phi now and again.

----------


## ginkobulloba

we've got the best hardcore gym

----------


## ZaneFan

> Back in the land of the beautiful women and grungy gyms. I travel to Russia periodically for work and when I am here, i work out in a gym that looks like a poster child for the heyday of weight-lifting... cement floors, a couple machines, free weights out the ying-yang [dbs go up to 90kg (198lbs)], rock music and a real honest to God brotherhood of hard core lifters. Everyone is a spotter, everyone helps out their bro, the vets get out advice and no snobs and no wimps. When the place gets too crowded, the owner calls a bench press elimination... he puts 100 kg (225lbs) on the bar and everyone takes a break and pushes it once. If you can't bench 225, you got to come back later. Love it, not lines, no waiting.
> 
> Anyway, this is a great time to be peaking on a cycle. Even though I was still jet-lagged to beat the fricking band, I stuck 405 on the bar and was squatting like their was no tomorrow. I mean, ****, when you are in a place where wearing spandex will get your head put through a wall, can feel the test in the air and are mid-cycle, there is no way you are going to start some high rep bull-shit and you go for it.
> 
> It took me almost ten minutes to walk the ten yards out of the gym, but the ache in my quad is what it is all about. 
> 
> The bros here that have squatted until they turned in to a rag-doll know just what I am talking about... and when the biggest mother in the gym, who out weighs you by over a sixty pounds, punches you on the shoulder as you are leaving and tells "not bad for an foreigner", you walk out back into your real life, just a little taller.


Well written man! in the early 1980's I worked out at George Eifferman's (former Mr. Universe) in Las Vegas. It was open 24 hours and I would go in there at midnight. Roids were not illegal like they are now and we could get scripts for Test and Anavar , American made. Anyway, just like you said. Real gym with Test just flowing up the yin-yang. No freaking high tech machines, just weights, mirrors and wood paneling.

----------


## znak

Quick stats update:

I now weigh 7 pounds more than when I started the cycle. My body fat has dropped about 3% (1 1/2" in my waistline). So if I am doing my math right, this means I was 202 pounds at 15% bf (see earlier picture) or 171.7 pound of muscle, I am now 209 pounds at about 12% bf (will post picture when I am back) or 183.9 pounds of muscle. 

That means the net change from this cycle is 183.9 - 171.7 or 12.2 pounds of muscle. 

Pretty good cycle.

----------


## Booz

keep up the good work Znak i do like to peruse your logs......very indepth and imformative.........................keep it going mate..........

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## plzr8

> That means the net change from this cycle is 183.9 - 171.7 or 12.2 pounds of muscle. 
> 
> Pretty good cycle.


indeed, keep up that good work znak

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## znak

The more I read, the more I think that a lot of people out there are all looking for a magic pill. You cant pick up a body building magazine without reading an article how to build your bris, tris, chest or dick in eight weeks! For some reason it is always eight weeks. 

Guys, I have to tell you this is BS. I have been seriously lifting for seven years. I am a type triple A personality. It is a strength and a weakness- but I am fu<king fanatic. When I decide to do something I do it. Drives my wife nuts, but my employer loves it.

In seven years, there has not been one week when I did not get in at least three work-outs. I am mid-career, so I have money and the means to do what it takes to grow, I am college educated, so I have the ability to research and I am a scientist, so I love facts. Here are some.

My diet is very clean, very disciplined and very well funded. I have been working with a top notch trainer since day one. Starting in my third year of lifting, I added an option to take one cheat day a week, when I have up to six beers. (Cant help it, I love good beer), that has been the only thing slowing my progress. 

In seven years, I have done 12 months of hgh- 6 months at 2ius and now 6 months at 4 ius. I have done three cycles, cycling up to a maximum of 500 mg test and 400 mg. I have a spread sheet plotting my weight, waist size and blood pressure for the entire seven years that I have been lifting. The spread sheet also has my 10 rep max for bench and squat for the past five years. What does the data show?

I gained the most weight fastest during the first two years of lifting before I did any AAS or HGH. The peak period was from month six to month eighteen when I went from 155 lbs to 185 lbs. It took over a year to go from 185 to 200 lbs and my natural potential seems to end at 205. In my third year of lifting, I just stopped growing. At that time, I started seriously studying AAS. In the middle of year four, I did my first cycle 200 mg of cyp per week for ten weeks. 

HGH and AAS, add quality to the muscle that I have, as is evinced by the increase in strength (over 27% increase in the last three years), but there has been very little increase in true mass over the last three years- (about 5% in 36 months to my STABLE base weight) DESPITE the fact that I am eating right. Only by using sane amounts of gear can I slightly accelerate weight gain.

Now lets bounce my documented results against what the muscle magazines are claiming- Can you get ten pounds of muscle in eight weeks? Probably not, unless you are just starting, then it may be possible. But please note that it took me, six months at 4ius, plus test-e and deca to get 12 lbs. 

But what is far more important in my mind is a different question: can you take a pudgy 155 pound cigarette smoking scientist and turn him into a 215 pounder with 8% body fat? Yes, but it will take you five years. 

Has it been worth it? Hell, yes.

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## ironaddict69

what are your max lifts If you dont mind me asking?

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## thunderin

> But what is far more important in my mind is a different question: can you take a pudgy 155 pound *cigarette smoking* scientist and turn him into a 215 pounder with 8% body fat? Yes, but it will take you five years. 
> 
> Has it been worth it? Hell, yes.


How did you quit? I respect that fact you were able to stop.

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## Titleist

Great log Znak.

You have made some very good points are far as Bodybuilding and dedication go. Your posts have also made me laugh, it's always good to see a good sense of humor around here.

Nice Job. :Thumps Up:

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## goober48

wow keep us updated..you look great man.

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## znak

> what are your max lifts If you dont mind me asking?


My max bench is 315 for three. 

I squat 405 for reps.

Too old to dead lift.

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## znak

> How did you quit? I respect that fact you were able to stop.


Long story, but it was really hard to do. 

I smoked for 20 years. Got hooked on nicorette for two, then finally stopped, until one fine day on vacation in Thailand I had "one cigarette" that lasted about six months. I have not had a smoke in about two years.

Gum really helped me. You get hooked on it too, but at least you are not fu<king up your lungs.

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## ironaddict69

> My max bench is 315 for three. 
> 
> I squat 405 for reps.
> 
> Too old to dead lift.


nice squat.
Somethings wrong with me i cant squat period, i hit 315 for bench once, but squatting 315 is like HARD. im either missing muscles back there or theyre too tight! Im probably just going to focus on getting a 500 lb deadlift anyway tho squats kinda scare me.

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## znak

> nice squat.
> Somethings wrong with me i cant squat period, i hit 315 for bench once, but squatting 315 is like HARD. im either missing muscles back there or theyre too tight! Im probably just going to focus on getting a 500 lb deadlift anyway tho squats kinda scare me.


Do bench squats with 225 'til you puke. Week after week. In a year, you will not know yourself. 

Best way to build up your squat, is by squatting. 

I am a VERY firm believer in high reps for legs. I never go below ten reps even on my sixth set.

I am not kidding about spewing either. Try six sets of twenty and then give me a call after you have wiped your mouth.

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## ironaddict69

whats a bench squat?
I like your mentality bro, alot. this edge we get from test etc, is awesome.

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## znak

> whats a bench squat?
> I like your mentality bro, alot. this edge we get from test etc, is awesome.



AKA Box squat. 

Find a bench that is at the height that when you sit your thighs are parallel to the ground. Squat down to the bench (box) until your butt firmly touches, then stand up. Do not relax at the bottom. This technique insures that you are going low enough and let's you fail more safely since you will be sitting and people (takes two) can take the bar off your shoulders.

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## ironaddict69

oh nice ok ill do those. your not supposed to like sit on the box your just barely supposed to touch it right? did you find those worked alot better than regular squats? cuz somethings not working for me.

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## znak

> oh nice ok ill do those. your not supposed to like sit on the box your just barely supposed to touch it right? did you find those worked alot better than regular squats? cuz somethings not working for me.



Forces you to do them right. Most people put way too much weight on the bar and then barely bend their knees, which does nothing other than make them look stupid. 

This makes you go deep. Pick a weight that you can do twenty reps with and go for it for six sets. You will quickly learn that puking on leg day is a reality and get some rapid growth.

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## plzr8

> AKA Box squat.


AKA half reps!  :LOL:  :LOL:  

ass to the grass znak!!

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## znak

> AKA half reps!  
> 
> ass to the grass znak!!



I am over 50. 

My knees work. That alone may qualify me for the Guinness Book of World Records considering the weights I use. I would like to keep them that way for the next twenty years.

You get growth going to parallel without the wear and tear of going deeper.

I am in this to look and feel good.

Hobbling, it not my idea of feeling good.

Ill shut up now.
 :Haha:

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## plzr8

just bustin your balls old man  :Wink/Grin: 

once again, good work & log, keep it up....

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## ZaneFan

> I am over 50. 
> 
> My knees work. That alone may qualify me for the Guinness Book of World Records considering the weights I use. I would like to keep them that way for the next twenty years.
> 
> You get growth going to parallel without the wear and tear of going deeper.
> 
> I am in this to look and feel good.
> 
> Hobbling, it not my idea of feeling good.
> ...


I am in my mid 40's and my knees started protesting after deep squating ass to your ankles in my 20's. I can attest to using a low bench or stool to help regulate your depth. It helps. Dont feel bad about wrapping your knees too. That helps me a bunch.

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## znak

I opened my last kit today with a tear in my eyes… this cycle is coming to an end. 

I am super happy with the results. As I was finishing up the six month hgh cycle with a test e/deca cycle at the end, I have found... the perfect cycle.

4 iu of hgh 5on/2 off
60 mg anavar ed.

This cycle hardens, cooks off fat including internal a**ominal fat, it give you strength, pumps to die for... all with a minimum of jabbing.

Simple, clean, safe.

It is no secret to anyone that has read my posts that I am very conservative with my medications. When I posted this over on the Anabolic Steroids Forum, I got my butt roasted, but I really have got to repeat that it is a wonderful cycle. I will never look like Coleman no matter how much risk I am willing to accept in terms of dosage. It may be sour grapes, but I don’t really think that I want to look like that. I now weigh a hard 210 and feel good. Var adds weight slowly, but the meat is there to stay. The synergy with hgh is fantastic.

I know what I am going to be doing three months from now.

I got thick skin, so yah go ahead and tell me that this is perfect cycle for your GF.

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## jerseyboy

> I don't have any experience with T4. I am pretty old and pretty old school-- hgh, test and deca.


Amen brother. I always run the same. Prop. or enth., deca , gh with slin and IGF. I've run the same compounds so many times I know what results I get so when I add the GH I can tell the difference. I am never leaner or more vascular than when running growth. I'm 36 and look 26.

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## znak

> Amen brother. I always run the same. Prop. or enth., deca, gh with slin and IGF. I've run the same compounds so many times I know what results I get so when I add the GH I can tell the difference. I am never leaner or more vascular than when running growth. I'm 36 and look 26.



I am 56 and look 26. :LOL:

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## finny

Znak, how much BW are you using? I'm thinking to go 1ml, so each 2IU shot will be 20IU on slin pin. I'm not sure if 1ml is more common or 2ml. From my perspective, I'd rather shoot less liquid.

Other than preference, I don't think it matters?

Thanks.

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## Lexed

znak post before and after pic

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## jerseyboy

> Znak, how much BW are you using? I'm thinking to go 1ml, so each 2IU shot will be 20IU on slin pin. I'm not sure if 1ml is more common or 2ml. From my perspective, I'd rather shoot less liquid.
> 
> Other than preference, I don't think it matters?
> 
> Thanks.


I use 2ml. So 2iu's would be 40 on a 100iu pin. The theory being that the more diluted the gh is the less chance you have of wasting any in that little bit of water left in the vial. I inject a full ml at a time and it's not a problem.

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## znak

> I use 2ml. So 2iu's would be 40 on a 100iu pin. The theory being that the more diluted the gh is the less chance you have of wasting any in that little bit of water left in the vial. I inject a full ml at a time and it's not a problem.



Right on. i do the same... water is cheap and hgh is, well, expensive.

Working on the pix bro but here is a picture of me five years ago. Compare it to my pre-cycle picture.

There is a difference.

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## plzr8

> Working on the pix bro but here is a picture of me five years ago. Compare it to my pre-cycle picture.
> 
> There is a difference.


znak you got 10 years younger over a 5 year span lol

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## znak

> znak you got 10 years younger over a 5 year span lol


And loving it!  :7up:

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## ironaddict69

you must have pretty big legs?

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## znak

> you must have pretty big legs?


They are my strongest body part proportionately.

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## znak

I decided to finish off my cycle in true form: a ten day cruise. Well, I agree that this might not be the best way to lose body fat, it is a great way to reduce stress. I think that I am going on a strict 5,000 calorie beer and junk food diet... just kidding, but I am sure that I will be taking in more "bad" calories than I usually do.

To make things worse, my digital camera crashed- so I won't be able to get any "ideal" before and after pix or pictures of the Caribbean for that matter. Sh*t happens, but I can think of a lot worse things than having to take pix in Jamaica with a disposable camera like working, cleaning sewers or not being jacked before you go on a cruise.

Life is good and getting better!

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## thunderin

> To make things worse, my digital camera crashed- so I won't be able to get any "ideal" before and after pix or pictures of the Caribbean for that matter. Sh*t happens, but I can think of a lot worse things than having to take pix in Jamaica with a disposable camera.
> 
> Life is good and getting better!


Pics of Jamaican beauties, jerk chicken and Red Stripe beer if you have time please.

Thanks

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## znak

> Pics of Jamaican beauties, jerk chicken and Red Stripe beer if you have time please.
> 
> Thanks



That's da plan, mon!

I'll certainly down a few in your honor, bro. Been enjoying your Thread.

Znak

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## znak

Gained four pounds on the cruise. All in the midsections. Fu<k. Cardio-time. 

Give me a week and I will posted the promised post-cycle pix.

Thunderin- I took the liberty of drinking over four cases of Red Stripe in your honor. I $hit you not, it was our standard toast. You're a hero at the the San Souci in Ocho Rio, they're waiting for you bro!

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## thunderin

Znak, you're definitely the man. I humbly bow to your strong liver.

I'm sure most of the weight is from water and salty food. You're still gonna look great.

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