# STEROIDS FORUM > ANABOLIC STEROIDS - QUESTIONS & ANSWERS >  Anavar only vs Primobolan only

## DallasLift

Im debating between an Anavar only cycle or a Primobolan only cycle. I have read many recent posts about successful Anavar only cycles but have not read much about Primobolan. I would think Primobolan would give you a little better results. Can anyone comment from their own personal experience? Im hoping for about 5-8 lbs of lean muscle and a little fat loss. I would like to avoid test due to issues w/ sides

Stats
Age 41
Weight 195
Height 61
BF 16%

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## bjpennnn

what is the purpose of this cycle? Do you want to look better?

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## Ashop

> Im debating between an Anavar only cycle or a Primobolan only cycle. I have read many recent posts about successful Anavar only cycles but have not read much about Primobolan. I would think Primobolan would give you a little better results. Can anyone comment from their own personal experience? Im hoping for about 5-8 lbs of lean muscle and a little fat loss. I would like to avoid test due to issues w/ sides
> 
> Stats
> Age 41
> Weight 195
> Height 61
> BF 16%


For me personally,,,I would go with the ANAVAR.
I love PRIMO but most men need large dosages
which can be costly for some.

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## bjpennnn

I think he has to much bf to start. i asked what his purpose is cause if he wants to get more ripped he could do it naturally. Run some clen or eca. You look bigger anyways when your more ripped. But if he actually wants to gain some lbs then thats a different story.

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## DallasLift

My main goal is to continue adding lean muscle. I would like to get about another 5-8 lbs of lean mass. I find that I'm a very hard gainer. I like that people claim that Primobolan and Anavar will give you keepable long term gains. I have worked my BF from 24% to 16% in about 18 months. My BF goal is 12% by year end. Now that I'm 41 I find it is harder to gain muscle and lose BF. I was hopiing a clean cycle of Primobola or Anavar would help me reach my goals. I was thinking of either running Primo @ 400 mg for 12 weeks or Anavar at 70 mg for 7 weeks. I'm leaning a little more to Primo but would like to hear your comments.

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## km62

I have similar issues as yourself,getting on a bit ,harder to lose body fat.My BF is 17% would like to reduce it to 14-15%,but can't put in the training like I used to.ANAVAR was my prefered option,as it is only very mildly androgenic , so need no testosterone shutdown treatment(thats provided you do not use ridiculously high doses).What made you choose a 7 week course at 70mg? Thought it may be on the high side.

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## bjpennnn

Well at 41 i would definitely be at least running a low dose of test as your base with either one you choose.

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## bdogs79

> I have similar issues as yourself,getting on a bit ,harder to lose body fat.My BF is 17% would like to reduce it to 14-15%,but can't put in the training like I used to.ANAVAR was my prefered option,as it is only very mildly androgenic , *so need no testosterone shutdown treatment*(thats provided you do not use ridiculously high doses).What made you choose a 7 week course at 70mg? Thought it may be on the high side.


This is wrong...you still need PCT...It doesn't aromatize to Est, like some other AS's, but it still lowers Test levels...so from the research I've done, Anavar @ 40-80mg ed, for 8 weeks...followed by 4-6 weeks of nolva/clomid.

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## bjpennnn

> This is wrong...you still need PCT...It doesn't aromatize to Est, like some other AS's, but it still lowers Test levels...so from the research I've done, Anavar @ 40-80mg ed, for 8 weeks...followed by 4-6 weeks of nolva/clomid.


xxxxxx2

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## bdogs79

> xxxxxx2


....?

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## bjpennnn

lol i am agreeing with you.

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## DallasLift

I understand that I will need PCT w/ any cycle I run. I'm still in research mode trying to decide between Anavar and Primobolan . I really like what I have read about Primobolan but people keep saying Anavar is the way to go. It does not sound like people have as much experience w/ Primobolan. A few recent articles I've read state that it will give you almost permanent gains. This is what I'm really trying to achieve. About 5-8 lbs. that is not water and that will stay after PCT. I realize either cycle will be expensive but that is OK. Any comments on Primobolan only?

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## bdogs79

I haven't done as much research on Primo as i have on Var...but from what i understand..
Primo (injectable) may be as good or better than var, as far as lean muscle gain, and long-term retention.
However, if you're thinking about oral primo...i believe it has many more side effects than var on the liver? Maybe someone can elaborate more? I've just read a couple posts that claim this. I am in the same boat, looking for a few lbs. lean gain, and fat loss at same time (traditional cutting cycle). Based on this I have decided to go with Var/clen cycle...but that's mainly because I won't do injectables!

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## km62

This is a cut and paste from the ********* site on anavar :Anavar (oxandrolone) is everyone’s favorite oral cutting anabolic steroid . It produces clean, high quality gains in strength, and a very distinct hardening effect on the physique of the user. Really, I have to say, I love this stuff, although I’ve only used it twice. The only drawback is that it’s a very expensive chemical to produce. It’s also not overly toxic despite being an oral steroid, it doesn’t produce many side effects at all, and is relatively mild on the natural endocrine system (for a steroid, that is). You’re not going to gain much, if any bodyweight from Anavar, but what you do gain will be very nice looking muscle, and little if any weight gain in the way of water.





Unfortunately, it needs to be dosed rather highly if it’s being used alone (which I don’t recommend). Even daily doses of up to 80mgs/day don’t cause many side effects. (1) This makes it very popular, and I suspect we would barely see a cycle without it, if it were less expensive. For precontest bodybuilding preparation and athletes looking to remain in a particular weight class while still moving up in strength, Anavar is typically drug of choice. Despite the need for relatively high doses, it would seem that gains from Anavar hang around for awhile, or at for at least 6 months after you stop taking it(2).

It’s used clinically for AIDS related wasting(1) and even in recovery routines for burn victims (2). It’s often the only drug used precontest for female figure and fitness competitors. This is due to the fact that virilization is not much of a concern with it, as it is only very mildly androgenic (3), and highly anabolic. Men almost never report side effects from it, and in women, the most commonly reported side effect is a temporarily enlarged clitoris (called “var-clit” in locker room slang).



Since it is an orally modified version of Dihydrotestosterone (DHT), it has been modified in such a way to allow it to survive first pass metabolism through the liver. Despite this fact, it is very rare that hepatotoxic (liver toxic) side effects are ever noticed and/or reported. Also, since it is a derivative of DHT, it is structurally incapable of converting to estrogen, so users who may be sensitive to gynocomastia or water retention don’t really have to worry about that problem arising.

With regards to its use in a precontest phase or a cutting cycle, it seems to have profound effects on both abdominal and visceral fat elimination. (4) This certainly makes it very useful for anyone interested in competing in bodybuilding, staying in a weight class, or even just looking good for beach season. It’s certainly got a well deserved reputation for helping people achieve all of those goals.

Anavar is widely available on the black market, but prices fluctuate widely, as does presentation. Several pharmaceutical houses produce it in tablet form, as do a couple of veterinary companies. In the underground, it’s available mostly in liquid oral form and capsules, and of course as a high quality paper anabolic.

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## km62

Another cut and paste from the same site on primobolan :Primobolan is an anabolic steroid which became very popular once it was claimed that it was one of Arnold’s favorites. I’m not really sure why this is, or how likely it is that Arnold went around telling everyone’s favorite steroid- but nonetheless, this rumor has persisted through the years.

When we take a critical look at it, in terms of its anabolic and androgenic rating, it appears to be a pretty weak steroid but is rated as stronger than Masteron (Drostanolone)! I’ve used both steroids and can tell you that not too many people would claim that those ratings provide an accurate idea of those two steroids compare to each other. In truth, I used Primobolan at 400mgs/week and wasn’t very impressed with it, and honestly, for the money, that’s really disappointing, since Primobolan is not inexpensive. I also would speculate that the reason many (male) Primobolan users have been less than thrilled with results from it is that they failed to use high enough doses. If I were to use it again (which I won’t), I would probably use 100mgs/ED (Every Day). 

Interestingly, Primobolan has a relatively high affinity for binding to the Androgen Receptor, and surprisingly it actually binds with more affinity than testosterone (1). This ability to strongly bind to the AR may be why Primobolan is considered a good fat burner- although most Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) derivations are very potent fat burners (the notable exception being Anadrol ).

Primobolan has been used medically to reduce breast tumors, with a success rate of about a third (2), so we can safely assume that no Anti-Estrogen products would be necessary. The use of Finasteride, Dutesteride, or another anti-hair-loss product may be useful, however, as Primobolan has a bad reputation for causing Alopecia.

Primobolan is very useful as both an anabolic as well as anti-catabolic agent, and the probable cause for this property is its ability to aid in nitrogen retention (3), which is a useful trait on both a bulking or cutting cycle…once again, I have to reiterate that the expense of this drug probably makes it a poor choice on a bulking cycle because of the reasonably high doses that it would require.

One of the other very interesting facts about Primobolan is that it’s one of the very few compounds available as both an oral as well as an injectable. Unlike Winstrol and Dianabol (both alkylated and non-estrified steroids) however, which are also available in both forms, Primobolan is available with an Acetate ester for use as an oral, and with an Enanthate ester as an injectable. Unfortunately, in this case, making Primobolan a non-17-alpha-alkylated steroid greatly reduces its potency. However, it must be noted that this alkylation is what makes oral steroids survive their first pass through the liver; it also makes them hepatoxic (liver –toxic). Oral Primobolan doesn’t actually have this drawback, and thus it is very mild on liver function and doesn’t elevate liver enzymes too much. Instead of the more toxic 17a-alkylation, Primobolan (Oral) uses 17 beta estrification and 1 alkylation to make it orally available. For both men as well as women, daily dosing of the oral is necessary, although men would probably want to take 100mgs per day and women would need to take at least 10mgs every day.

Although it is typically considered to be a very mild drug when inhibition of the natural hormonal profile is considered, this isn’t totally true. Men were given a 30-45mg dose of the oral version of Primobolan, experienced between a 15% and 65% decrease in their Gonadatropin levels (4). Since we’re probably looking at double or triple that dose, for men to get any kind of results, it’s also probable that gonadal inhibition will also be increased.

My history with Primobolan Enanthate (the injectable version) has been less than impressive. I used it at 200mgs/week about a decade ago, and wasn’t impressed at all. A couple of years ago I went back to it and used 350mgs/week (100mgs/Every other Day), and got much better results, but still wasn’t overly impressed with it. Add to that the fact that it is an expensive chemical, and I really wasn’t impressed.

On the Black Market, Primobolan tabs are only being produced by British Dragon currently, although PaperPrimo is being produced as well. Both are high quality products, although I would speculate that their use is going to be reserved for women. With regards to the injectable version, many underground labs produce it, and quality tends to vary, due to powder quality at the moment. Expect to pay around $100 for a 10ml bottle dosed at 100mgs/ml, if not more. Finally, ampules are available at a cost of roughly $7-12 per amp, but since this is the most widely counterfeited steroid on the black market, I’d stick to the underground lab variety.

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## elpropiotorvic

Oral primo if I'm not wrong has no effect on liver, I just got up from valentines day ...So it might be bollocks, but I am almost certain that primo wasn't modified to pass the liver

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## DallasLift

I would go w/ either injectable Primo or oral Anavar .

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## idrockasupra

My bro ( 6'4 220lbs 14% bf) wants to run a two week cycle of var at 50mgs daily then run nolva clomid two weeks and then wants to go to mexico to party. I told him hes better off goin comin back stackin some test and runnin it for 8-10 weeks, if he doesnt listen tho will he be fine w two week pct ? Will he even keep any gains? Hes a well built kd he just wants to be a lil more ripped, thanks for any help.

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## bdogs79

I've read (in other posts) that you start to see muscle hardening after about a week. This is obviously variable for everyone though. The PCT if been told to do is 4 weeks minimum...But if you minimize your Test decreases (by taking Var early in the morning, so most of it has cleared your blood by bedtime), you may be able to run clomid/nolv for only 2 weeks. 

Although...I'd hate to be in mexico with all those drunk, horny college girls, and not be able to "get it up"....

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## BJJ

> I have similar issues as yourself,getting on a bit ,harder to lose body fat.My BF is 17% would like to reduce it to 14-15%,but can't put in the training like I used to.ANAVAR was my prefered option,as it is only very mildly androgenic , *so need no testosterone shutdown treatment*(thats provided you do not use ridiculously high doses).What made you choose a 7 week course at 70mg? Thought it may be on the high side.





> This is a cut and paste from the ********* site on anavar:Anavar (oxandrolone) is everyone’s favorite oral cutting anabolic steroid . It produces clean, high quality gains in strength, and a very distinct hardening effect on the physique of the user. Really, I have to say, I love this stuff, although I’ve only used it twice. The only drawback is that it’s a very expensive chemical to produce. It’s also not overly toxic despite being an oral steroid, it doesn’t produce many side effects at all, and is relatively mild on the natural endocrine system (for a steroid, that is). You’re not going to gain much, if any bodyweight from Anavar, but what you do gain will be very nice looking muscle, and little if any weight gain in the way of water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, it needs to be dosed rather highly if it’s being used alone (which I don’t recommend). Even daily doses of up to 80mgs/day don’t cause many side effects. (1) This makes it very popular, and I suspect we would barely see a cycle without it, if it were less expensive. For precontest bodybuilding preparation and athletes looking to remain in a particular weight class while still moving up in strength, Anavar is typically drug of choice. Despite the need for relatively high doses, it would seem that gains from Anavar hang around for awhile, or at for at least 6 months after you stop taking it(2).
> 
> It’s used clinically for AIDS related wasting(1) and even in recovery routines for burn victims (2). It’s often the only drug used precontest for female figure and fitness competitors. This is due to the fact that virilization is not much of a concern with it, as it is only very mildly androgenic (3), and highly anabolic. Men almost never report side effects from it, and in women, the most commonly reported side effect is a temporarily enlarged clitoris (called “var-clit” in locker room slang).
> ...


Agre with most of the above but this does not mean you can avoid a proper pct.

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## Stayfocus143

Hey I'm just curious did it work? I'm thinking about trying var for 10 weeks.. Just curious....

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