# GENERAL FORUM > IN THE NEWS >  Tim Hardaway: 'I Hate Gay People'

## Logan13

*Tim Hardaway: 'I Hate Gay People'*
http://cbs4.com/local/local_story_045205258.html
02/15/07
(CBS4) MIAMI Former Miami Heat superstar Tim Hardaway told a local sports radio show that he "hates gay people," and he's gotten a lot of peoples' attention especially in South Florida.

"Disgusting. Having grown up in northern florida, dealing with racism there and desegregating of schools up there,
it's unfortunate you still hear things like that on the radio," one man told CBS4's Art Barron outside of a Coral Gables carwash that uses Hardaway's name as a draw. The manager of the carwash was away and unavailable for comment.

Hardaway made the comments while he was being interviewed by Dan Le Batard on 790 the Ticket Wednesday afternoon.

The five time All Star was asked how he would deal with a gay teammate.

"First of all I wouldn't want him on my team," said Hardaway. "Second of all, if he was on my team I would really distance myself from him because I don't think that's right and I don't think he should be in the locker room when we're in the locker room."

Le Batard took Hardaway to task, pointing out that his comments were 'flatly homophobic' and bigoted, but that only seemed to stir up the former point guard.

"Well, you know, I hate gay people," Hardaway said in response to Le Batard. "I let it be known I don't like gay people. I don't like to be around gay people. I'm homophobic. It shouldn't be in the world, in the United States, I don't like it."

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## biglouie250

tim has his opinion and is entitled to it. now i dont agree with him as i could care less what sexual orientation anyone is. However i will say that this is something that is different then most work conditions. if i were changing in a room with naked women wouldnt that make them uncomfortable? im a straight guy and i know as a man there is no turning off of those sexual feelings. i see boobies i get excited. john ameche is a man, albeit a gay man....he gets excited seeing penis.....i wouldnt feel so comfortable knowing that the guy next to me is dreaming about my wang.

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## mcpeepants

has Tim been attending klan rallies. if he changed gay to black and homophic to racist, i dont' think he would feel that same way.

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## Logan13

> has Tim been attending klan rallies. if he changed gay to black and homophic to racist, i dont' think he would feel that same way.


he understands what he has said. You may not like it, and it obviously not a PC thing to say, but he has the right to his own opinion just as you do to yours............

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## mcpeepants

> he understands what he has said. You may not like it, and it obviously not a PC thing to say, but he has the right to his own opinion just as you do to yours............


 i'm just pointing out what he is saying is the same thing that was being said about black players when they tried to integrate into basketball, baseball, football etc.

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## Hackamaniac

He has since apologized..

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## Logan13

> i'm just pointing out what he is saying is the same thing that was being said about black players when they tried to integrate into basketball, baseball, football etc.


Racism takes many forms. The only group that it is politically correct to abuse these days are Christians.

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## Tock

> i see boobies i get excited. john ameche is a man, albeit a gay man....he gets excited seeing penis.....i wouldnt feel so comfortable knowing that the guy next to me is dreaming about my wang.


Oh, brother . . .  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  

I've seen lots of "wangs" and pretty much, you've seen one, you've seen 'em all. 
Unless yours is significantly improved on anything commonly seen in porno flicks, you're giving yourself too much credit. Nobody is going to dream about your John Thomas.



Sheesh . . . next you'll be telling me that all gays wear women's panties and makeup, and are excellent cooks and know all about opera & shop at Neiman Marcus.
 :1laugh:

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## Tock

> he understands what he has said. You may not like it, and it obviously not a PC thing to say, but he has the right to his own opinion just as you do to yours............


Of course he has the right to his opinion.

And everyone else has the right to express their opinion of his opinion, especially if he voices his opinion in public.

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## Kale

> Oh, brother . . .  
> 
> I've seen lots of "wangs" and pretty much, you've seen one, you've seen 'em all. 
> Unless yours is significantly improved on anything commonly seen in porno flicks, you're giving yourself too much credit. Nobody is going to dream about your John Thomas.
> 
> 
> 
> *Sheesh . . . next you'll be telling me that all gays wear women's panties and makeup, and are excellent cooks and know all about opera & shop at Neiman Marcus.*


You mean they dont ?  :EEK!:   :EEK!:

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## Logan13

> And everyone else has the right to express their opinion of his opinion, especially if he voices his opinion in public.


100% agree with that Tock!

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## Logan13

*NBA Banishes Tim Hardaway From All-Star Game After Anti-Gay Remarks*
foxnews
02/15/07
The NBA banished Tim Hardaway from All-Star weekend in Las Vegas because of his anti-gay remarks.

Hardaway, who played in five All-Star games during the 1990s, was already in Las Vegas and scheduled to make a series of public appearances this week on behalf of the league. But after saying, "I hate gay people" during a radio interview, commissioner David Stern stepped in.

"It is inappropriate for him to be representing us given the disparity between his views and ours," Stern said in a statement Thursday.

Hardaway apologized for his comments, which came a week after John Amaechi became the first former NBA player to say he was gay.

"As an African-American, I know all too well the negative thoughts and feelings hatred and bigotry cause," Hardaway said Thursday in a statement issued by his agent. "I regret and apologize for the statements that I made that have certainly caused the same kinds of feelings and reactions.

"I especially apologize to my fans, friends and family in Miami and Chicago. I am committed to examining my feelings and will recognize, appreciate and respect the differences among people in our society," he said. "I regret any embarrassment I have caused the league on the eve of one of their greatest annual events."

Hardaway represented the NBA in Las Vegas this week at a Habitat for Humanity event and a fitness promotion. The former U.S. Olympian was originally scheduled to be an assistant coach at a wheelchair game Thursday night and later appear at the fan-oriented Jam Session.

"I don't need Tim's comments to realize there's a problem," Amaechi told The Associated Press in a phone interview earlier in the day. "People said that I should just shut up and go away  now they have to rethink that."

On a Miami radio show Wednesday, Hardaway was asked how he would interact with a gay teammate.

"First of all, I wouldn't want him on my team," the former Miami Heat star said. "And second of all, if he was on my team, I would, you know, really distance myself from him because, uh, I don't think that is right. I don't think he should be in the locker room while we are in the locker room."

When show host Dan Le Batard told Hardaway those comments were "flatly homophobic" and "bigotry," the player continued.

"You know, I hate gay people, so I let it be known. I don't like gay people and I don't like to be around gay people," he said. "I'm homophobic. I don't like it. It shouldn't be in the world or in the United States."

Hardaway also said if he did find out that a teammate was gay, he would ask for the player to be removed from the team.

"Something has to give," Hardaway said. "If you have 12 other ballplayers in your locker room that's upset and can't concentrate and always worried about him in the locker room or on the court or whatever, it's going to be hard for your teammates to win and accept him as a teammate."

Later that night, Hardaway apologized during a telephone interview with WSVN-TV in Miami.

"Yes, I regret it. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said I hate gay people or anything like that," he said. "That was my mistake."

Two major gay and lesbian groups denounced Hardaway's remarks.

"Hardaway's comments are vile, repulsive, and indicative of the climate of ignorance, hostility and prejudice that continues to pervade sports culture," said Neil Giuliano, president of the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation. "And by apologizing not for his bigotry, but rather for giving voice to it, he's reminding us that this ugly display is only the tip of a very large iceberg."

Said Matt Foreman, president of the National Gay & Lesbian Task Force: "Hardaway is a hero to thousands of young people. And that's what makes his comments so troubling. Sadly, his words simply put the pervasive homophobia in the NBA on the table."

Amaechi, who detailed his life in his recent autobiography "Man in the Middle," hoped his coming out would be a catalyst for intelligent discourse.

"His words pollute the atmosphere," Amaechi said. "It creates an atmosphere that allows young gays and lesbians to be harassed in school, creates an atmosphere where in 33 states you can lose your job, and where anti-gay and lesbian issues are used for political gain. It's an atmosphere that hurts all of us, not just gay people."

Amaechi taped a spot Thursday for PBS' gay and lesbian program "In the Life." He said the anti-gay sentiment remains despite Hardaway's apology.

"It's vitriolic, and may be exactly what he feels," he said. "Whether he's honest or not doesn't inoculate us from his words. It's not progress to hear hateful words."

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## realtalk

well I don't have anything against gay people at all but I would not be to comfortable being in the same locker room or showering that's not cool yeah everyone has a right but where do we draw the line. when is enough, enough

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## Tock

> well I don't have anything against gay people at all but I would not be to comfortable being in the same locker room or showering that's not cool yeah everyone has a right but where do we draw the line. when is enough, enough


Well, let me ask you this . . .

Would you be comfortable knowing that if you were showering with a bunch of guys in a locker room that chances were pretty good that at least one of them had gay tendencies, but had never told anyone about them?

How often do guys shower with each other, anyway? I haven't in years and years . . .

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## mavsluva

Love the man for who he is, not his behavior.

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## Logan13

> Love the man for who he is, not his behavior.


if a man is not defined by his behavior, what prey tell is he defined by?

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## Act of God

Tim Hardaway was always an ass. I respect him for being honest, though. It seems like honesty has gone the way of the Dodo these days. I'd rather someone hate me to my face than behind closed doors any day.

+1 on the shower comment. You wouldn't expect a girl to be forced to use the guy's locker room/shower. A guy is a guy, and there's all kinds of testosterone flowing through his veins. We've been taught since day one that we aren't supposed to see the "naughty parts" of the people we are attracted to. So, for gays, its naked guys that they aren't involved with.

And no, Tock, that isn't a generalization about gays. It is a generalization about DUDES.

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## Snrf

i think the idea gays like to look at cocks so much is ridiculous. think about it, if we had tits do you really think we'd like staring at girls tits so much?

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## biglouie250

> Oh, brother . . .  
> 
> I've seen lots of "wangs" and pretty much, you've seen one, you've seen 'em all. 
> Unless yours is significantly improved on anything commonly seen in porno flicks, you're giving yourself too much credit. Nobody is going to dream about your John Thomas.



so you dont excited by seeing a naked man? i never get tired of seeing boobies!

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## Snrf

> so you dont excited by seeing a naked man? i never get tired of seeing boobies!


yeah but if we had boobs they wouldn't be so exciting would they?

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## biglouie250

> yeah but if we had boobs they wouldn't be so exciting would they?



huh?

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## Teabagger

> I'm saying boobs are exciting cuz women have them and we don't...I don't think boobs would be so awesome if we had a pair too.
> 
> ie gays see penises multiple times everyday, they have one...therefore the excitement about them isn't going to be the same


They are sexually attracted to different parts...doood. Thats what makes them gay!!

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## Snrf

every time you post you lower yourself to new levels of stupidity "doood".

read my post again and see if you can understand what I was trying to get across to you thicko

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## Ufa

Homophobic's are insecure and I sometimes wonder if they don't
have latent homosexual tendencies.

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## Snrf

most of them actually do, something like 70% of them anyway....

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## biglouie250

> I'm saying boobs are exciting cuz women have them and we don't...I don't think boobs would be so awesome if we had a pair too.
> 
> ie gays see penises multiple times everyday, they have one...therefore the excitement about them isn't going to be the same


men have nipples and men technically do have breasts......

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## Snrf

> men have nipples and men technically do have breasts......


Well you can get surgery to sort that out dontcha know :1laugh:   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Teabagger

> every time you post you lower yourself to new levels of stupidity "doood".
> 
> read my post again and see if you can understand what I was trying to get across to you thicko


Oh ok Einstein.

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## Teabagger

I'm sure Hardaway needs to go to "rehab" for his "sickness", just like the actor from Greys Anatomy was said to have gone into "rehab" for his incorrect thinking. Perhaps North Korea and China are really on to something...ya know they have "re-education camps" for those who don't agree with or think like the government wants them to. 

What do ya think guys and girls...good idea or what. Send all Christians, conservatives, hetrosexual, non-pedophile tolerant, people to re-education camps.?

Feel free to add other groups you feel should be re-educated into correct thinking.

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## SVTMuscle*

Meh, he's entitled to his personal opinion, as long as he keeps it personal. But it is very stupid of him to come out publicly and say something like that especially for someone who's voice can be heard, and he deserves the punishment.

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## Snrf

> What do ya think guys and girls...good idea or what. Send all Christians, conservatives, hetrosexual, non-pedophile tolerant, people to re-education camps.?
> 
> Feel free to add other groups you feel should be re-educated into correct thinking.


How do they teach chimpanzees to type, really?

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## biglouie250

> Homophobic's are insecure and I sometimes wonder if they don't
> have latent homosexual tendencies.


if you hate blacks your racist....if you believe men are superior to women your sexist. these words recognize the hate or bigotry for blacks and women. but if you hate gays your homophobic? the word means "scared of gays" that doesnt make sense to me. im not scared of gay people i just get grossed out by guys doing each other. homophobia is a made up word and doesnt actually exist. hatred of gays exists, not being scared of them. its true that generally people who hate others have some self hatred and thats not just in the case of hating gays. IE hitler was into the master race with blue eyes and blonde hair but he himself had brown eyes and brown hair and killed those that werent part oif his "master race". Rush Limbaugh says all drug users should be killed then gets addicted to oxycontin and uses viagra regularly. the staunch conservative priest who condemns others and who vowed celebacy gets caught with a man/woman or child...... 

me saying that homosexuality grosses me out does not make me homophobic. cow turds gross me out, am i secretly in love with that? no. i would never preclude a gay man from advancing in the workplace or becoming an elected official. and i believe gays should have equal marriage rights. but the idea of a gay man staring at my naked body creeps me out, the idea of butt sex between 2 guys grosses me out. thats all. im sorry im not a fruity P.C. cry baby its just the way i feel.

OK SO CARLOS IS THE ONLY GAY MAN IM SCARED OF!

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## Teabagger

> How do they teach chimpanzees to type, really?


That was semi-funny...but you should be able to answer that question yourself smurf-boy.

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## Snrf

why does everyone think it has anything to do with Smurfs.

S-N-R-F (an abbreviation of Sunroof - a private joke between my friends and i)

S-M-U-R-F (a small blue man the height of two apples who lives in a mushroom)

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## Logan13

> I'm saying boobs are exciting cuz women have them and we don't...I don't think boobs would be so awesome if we had a pair too.
> 
> ie gays see penises multiple times everyday, they have one...therefore the excitement about them isn't going to be the same


boobs are sexy because we are wired to think of them as such.

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## Snrf

> boobs are sexy because we are wired to think of them as such.


And no one thinks boobs would be any less sexy if we had a nice pair of c cups ourselves?

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## Logan13

> if you hate blacks your racist....if you believe men are superior to women your sexist. these words recognize the hate or bigotry for blacks and women. but if you hate gays your homophobic? the word means "scared of gays" that doesnt make sense to me. im not scared of gay people i just get grossed out by guys doing each other. homophobia is a made up word and doesnt actually exist. hatred of gays exists, not being scared of them. its true that generally people who hate others have some self hatred and thats not just in the case of hating gays. IE hitler was into the master race with blue eyes and blonde hair but he himself had brown eyes and brown hair and killed those that werent part oif his "master race". Rush Limbaugh says all drug users should be killed then gets addicted to oxycontin and uses viagra regularly. the staunch conservative priest who condemns others and who vowed celebacy gets caught with a man/woman or child...... 
> 
> me saying that homosexuality grosses me out does not make me homophobic. cow turds gross me out, am i secretly in love with that? no. i would never preclude a gay man from advancing in the workplace or becoming an elected official. and i believe gays should have equal marriage rights. but the idea of a gay man staring at my naked body creeps me out, the idea of butt sex between 2 guys grosses me out. thats all. im sorry im not a fruity P.C. cry baby its just the way i feel.
> 
> OK SO CARLOS IS THE ONLY GAY MAN IM SCARED OF!


Very good post biglouie.

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## Logan13

> And no one thinks boobs would be any less sexy if we had a nice pair of c cups ourselves?


if you were attracted to men with boobs, you would be gay in my book.

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## Mike Dura

Yeah, and everyone has the right to reveal how ignorant and fearful they are for the whole world to see (or for other ignorant/fearful people to chime in hatefully). 





> Of course he has the right to his opinion.
> 
> And everyone else has the right to express their opinion of his opinion, especially if he voices his opinion in public.

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## Snrf

> if you were attracted to men with boobs, you would be gay in my book.



WHAT? that has nothing at all to do with what I said.

I said, if men had boobs I think we would be less obsessed with them, cuz we'd see ours all day. how are you all failing to understand this? its a pretty simple concept.

the bits we find attractive about women are the differences right? the curves, nice round bums, boobs, hair etc....if we had tits ourselves we'd be less interested in them...thats all I'm saying.

where u managed to find anything about being attracted to men with boobs in that I have no idea  :Hmmmm:

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## Logan13

> Yeah, and everyone has the right to reveal how ignorant and fearful they are for the whole world to see (or for other ignorant/fearful people to chime in hatefully).


Personally feeling the way that Hardaway obviously does is one thing, but to tell the world about it is just dumb, especially for a person who is in the national spotlight. ESPN radio was saying how his career was over, but I really doubt that many avid BK fans will care much.

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## Logan13

> WHAT? that has nothing at all to do with what I said.
> 
> I said, if men had boobs I think we would be less obsessed with them, cuz we'd see ours all day. how are you all failing to understand this? its a pretty simple concept.
> 
> the bits we find attractive about women are the differences right? the curves, nice round bums, boobs, hair etc....if we had tits ourselves we'd be less interested in them...thats all I'm saying.
> 
> where u managed to find anything about being attracted to men with boobs in that I have no idea


both sexes have a backdoor, but gays are not necesarily attracted to the one on a female........

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## Mike Dura

I have often have that problem with him too. When he doesn't understand me he assumes that I'm bullshitting or blowing smoke up his ass. 

I don't think you're right however (about the boobs). I have a minor case of gyno and I still obsess over woman's boobs. There's a sexy black woman i work with and the vibe has been going back and forth - it's just a matter of time before my obsession gets expressed "hands on." 






> WHAT? that has nothing at all to do with what I said.
> 
> I said, if men had boobs I think we would be less obsessed with them, cuz we'd see ours all day. how are you all failing to understand this? its a pretty simple concept.
> 
> the bits we find attractive about women are the differences right? the curves, nice round bums, boobs, hair etc....if we had tits ourselves we'd be less interested in them...thats all I'm saying.
> 
> where u managed to find anything about being attracted to men with boobs in that I have no idea

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## Logan13

> I have often have that problem with him too. When he doesn't understand me he assumes that I'm bullshitting or blowing smoke up his ass. 
> 
> I don't think you're right however (about the boobs). I have a minor case of gyno and I still obsess over woman's boobs. There's a sexy black woman i work with and the vibe has been going back and forth - it's just a matter of time before my obsession gets expressed "hands on."


I do not see where you have gyno? Did you just get it?

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## mavsluva

> if a man is not defined by his behavior, what prey tell is he defined by?



Think of it as a parent/child relationship. A kid may express a certain behavior that drives his/her parents insane. But at the end of the day, the parents still have a deep love for their child.

I'm sure my wife dislikes a few things about me, but it doesn't change her love for me. We as humans are supposed to love each other unconditionally in the same way, regardless of our petty little differences.

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## biglouie250

> WHAT? that has nothing at all to do with what I said.
> 
> I said, if men had boobs I think we would be less obsessed with them, cuz we'd see ours all day. how are you all failing to understand this? its a pretty simple concept.
> 
> the bits we find attractive about women are the differences right? the curves, nice round bums, boobs, hair etc....if we had tits ourselves we'd be less interested in them...thats all I'm saying.
> 
> where u managed to find anything about being attracted to men with boobs in that I have no idea



dude men like seeing boobs not because they are different but because we have testosterone and thousands of years of evolution telling us to club women and drag them back to our caves!!! i happen to have a fantastic ass but that doesnt stop me from fondling my womans ass!

actually i think bojangles might have a better insight and i think it has to do with the fact that breasts and vaginas are associated with motherhood and subconsioucly we as animals feel the need to procreate. therefore we find female organs attractive in that sense and it translates into horniness.

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## Mike Dura

I have minimal gyno. It goes up and down. Its manageable. I only use Nolvadex . I should probably have some letro on hand but I seem to be able to manage it. 





> I do not see where you have gyno? Did you just get it?

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## SMYL_GR8

As I've said before, 80% of my patients are gay and therefore, I probably have more interactions with gay men than any straight guy on here. Of course I don't hate them as a group b/c of the few that have done bad things to me just as I don't hate Jews for the few that have royally screwed me over, but to think it's just perfectly fine and ok is ludicrous. I see a distinct and significant difference between the stability and survival instincts of gay men and hetero men.

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## Carlos_E

> if you hate blacks your racist....if you believe men are superior to women your sexist. these words recognize the hate or bigotry for blacks and women. but if you hate gays your homophobic? the word means "scared of gays" that doesnt make sense to me. im not scared of gay people i just get grossed out by guys doing each other. homophobia is a made up word and doesnt actually exist. hatred of gays exists, not being scared of them. its true that generally people who hate others have some self hatred and thats not just in the case of hating gays. IE hitler was into the master race with blue eyes and blonde hair but he himself had brown eyes and brown hair and killed those that werent part oif his "master race". Rush Limbaugh says all drug users should be killed then gets addicted to oxycontin and uses viagra regularly. the staunch conservative priest who condemns others and who vowed celebacy gets caught with a man/woman or child...... 
> 
> me saying that homosexuality grosses me out does not make me homophobic. cow turds gross me out, am i secretly in love with that? no. i would never preclude a gay man from advancing in the workplace or becoming an elected official. and i believe gays should have equal marriage rights. but the idea of a gay man staring at my naked body creeps me out, the idea of butt sex between 2 guys grosses me out. thats all. im sorry im not a fruity P.C. cry baby its just the way i feel.
> 
> *OK SO CARLOS IS THE ONLY GAY MAN IM SCARED OF!*


I was waiting for someone to pull my name into this. You are afraid of me why?

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## Carlos_E

> tim has his opinion and is entitled to it. now i dont agree with him as i could care less what sexual orientation anyone is. However i will say that this is something that is different then most work conditions. if i were changing in a room with naked women wouldnt that make them uncomfortable? im a straight guy and i know as a man there is no turning off of those sexual feelings. i see boobies i get excited. john ameche is a man, albeit a gay man....he gets excited seeing penis.....i wouldnt feel so comfortable knowing that the guy next to me is dreaming about my wang.


I am a gay man and seeing a penis does not get me excited. Are you attracted to every woman you see? Are you attracted to every breast you see? I sincerely hope not. It would mean you're getting off when you look at my grand mother.



> Love the man for who he is, not his behavior.


Being gay is who you are. Not a behavior.



> i think the idea gays like to look at cocks so much is ridiculous. think about it, if we had tits do you really think we'd like staring at girls tits so much?


Exactly. If I want to see a dick I'd look at my own.



> so you dont excited by seeing a naked man? i never get tired of seeing boobies!


No I don't. Do you get excited at every naked woman you see?

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## mavsluva

> Being gay is who you are. Not a behavior.



That was my point.

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## Snrf

> I am a gay man and seeing a penis does not get me excited. Are you attracted to every woman you see? Are you attracted to every breast you see? I sincerely hope not. *It would mean you're getting off when you look at my grand mother.*


 :Owned: 

ahahahaha, rofl!

I been waiting for Carlos to chime in on this one all day.

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## Logan13

> That was my point.


actually, it was mine as well. I guess that we were on the same page.

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## BgMc31

Hardaway has essentially ruined any possibility of moving forward with his NBA career. I realize he's retired as a player, but he was working on working his way up through the CBA as an player personnel person. He also runs several camps for youth in El Paso Texas, where he attended UTEP. I'm sure they will remove his name from those as well as UTEP cancelling an upcoming events associated with him.

It amazes me, how any black man can preach hate when we know, firsthand, how hate and ignorance can affect everday life. Sad to hear things like this.

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## Carlos_E

The entire topic is just weird. Do some of you think you're SOOOOOO hot that everyone will want you? You just assume that any gay man who sees you naked will gawk and fawn over you. It comes off as conceited. Like those pretty girls who thinks every man wants them. Sorry to tell you but a flaccid penis is not arousing. If you sport a hard on walking around the locker room, yeah... I'm sure you'd get a lot of looks.

When I'm at the gym changing in the locker room that is exactly what I'm doing. Changing and thinking about working out. No, I'm not checking out everyone else changing or watching guys get naked. Anyone who would do something like that is a perv. 

Biglou please post a picture. You must be extremely attractive if you think every gay man wants to see you naked. You must be a 20 on a scale of 1 to 10. This I got to see.

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## Logan13

> The entire topic is just weird. Do some of you think you're SOOOOOO hot that everyone will want you? You just assume that any gay man who sees you naked will gawk and fawn over you. It comes off as conceited. Like those pretty girls who thinks every man wants them. Sorry to tell you but a flaccid penis is not arousing. If you sport a hard on walking around the locker room, yeah... I'm sure you'd get a lot of looks.
> 
> When I'm at the gym changing in the locker room that is exactly what I'm doing. Changing and thinking about working out. No, I'm not checking out everyone else changing or watching guys get naked. Anyone who would do something like that is a perv. 
> 
> Biglou please post a picture. You must be extremely attractive if you think every gay man wants to see you naked. You must be a 20 on a scale of 1 to 10. This I got to see.


I am a 21........ :Wink/Grin:  I think that we heteros have a preconceived idea about this Carlos, it doesn't make it right, but it is the truth since we can only judge it from one perspective.

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## Act of God

I don't know how I feel about this sub-conversation. I feel like most dudes will screw just about any chick given the chance. Hell, I've done some things I am not proud of...quite a few. I know for a fact I am not the exception to the rule. I also think that most guys would be turned on, at least a little, buy any naked chick within APPROPRIATE weight/age ranges.

It's just how it is, guys screw whatever they can. God forbid you introduce booze/drugs into the mix, the standards drop even further.

If the only fundamental difference between me and a gay dude is that I like chicks and he likes dudes (which I how I see it, no other real differences) wouldn't that apply the same way? It's not like a gay guy would have a woman's sex drive, he's still a guy. Hormonally he still has male hormones running around.

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## SVTMuscle*

> The entire topic is just weird. Do some of you think you're SOOOOOO hot that everyone will want you? You just assume that any gay man who sees you naked will gawk and fawn over you. It comes off as conceited. Like those pretty girls who thinks every man wants them. Sorry to tell you but a flaccid penis is not arousing. If you sport a hard on walking around the locker room, yeah... I'm sure you'd get a lot of looks.
> 
> When I'm at the gym changing in the locker room that is exactly what I'm doing. Changing and thinking about working out. No, I'm not checking out everyone else changing or watching guys get naked. Anyone who would do something like that is a perv. 
> 
> Biglou please post a picture. You must be extremely attractive if you think every gay man wants to see you naked. You must be a 20 on a scale of 1 to 10. This I got to see.


Pssst havn't you seen American Wedding!? Everyone wants a peice of the Stiffler!

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## Snrf

> I am a 21........ I think that we heteros have a preconceived idea about this Carlos, it doesn't make it right, but it is the truth since we can only judge it from one perspective.


don't say "we heteros" like you're speaking for all of us.

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## Tock

> so you dont excited by seeing a naked man? i never get tired of seeing boobies!


I suppose the difference is that I see a naked man every day -- me -- and as a date of mine once said, "It's no big thing." So if I see another naked guy, it's not like I've never seen male anatomy before. Dicks are hardly the most beautiful part of our bodies, anyway. So, no, naked men don't do much for me. A nice guy with a sense of humor who's halfway intelligent, single, available, and interested, well, that's a different story.

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## chest6

I like how everyone thinks they can just say "im sorry" and take back what they said  :LOL:  THen itll get all better

Obviously not...cuz they said it in the first place

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## Snrf

> I suppose the difference is that I see a naked man every day -- me -- and as a date of mine once said, "It's no big thing." So if I see another naked guy, it's not like I've never seen male anatomy before. Dicks are hardly the most beautiful part of our bodies, anyway. So, no, naked men don't do much for me. A *nice* guy with a *sense of humor* who's halfway *intelligent*, single, available, and interested, well, that's a different story.


See Logan? he isn't interested in you!

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## Tock

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...s_and_vio.html 


Andrew Sullivan's take on *Straight & Gay Men in the Shower* . . . pretty much says it all . . .

Friday, February 16, 2007
Showers and Violation
16 Feb 2007 05:01 pm

A reader writes:

I'm a little confused. The position espoused by the reader seems to miss a glaring point. How is a scenario where a homosexual man showers with heterosexual men materially different from one where a hetero male showers with a group of lesbians? In the latter case there's probably little chance of sexual congress (hetero fantasies notwithstanding) and I believe most conscientious men could probably get through such a shower without becoming overtly aroused but that's not the point. Any sexual pleasure derived from the women's naked bodies is a violation in the sense that there is no consent on the part of the lesbians. The fact that I'm able to control my physical response, in my opinion, does not mitigate the violation. 

-----

I can see how the reader feels. The practical response is that it is perfectly feasible to separate men from women in terms of things like public restrooms, communal showers, etc. In school contexts, it is neither practical nor conscionable to ask gay men/boys to shower in a separate place, or to vet groups of men/boys as gay or straight. Most public gyms have an option for private stalls if some hetero men feel terrified of being "violated" by someone else's imagination. But it seems to me that if no one touches you or harasses you, you're not violated. You're insecure. Get over it.

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## Primalinstinct

Why are we talking about this?

ANNA IS DEAD FOR GOD'S SAKE!

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## chest6

lol what?/

Did you post in the wrong thread?

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## Kale

> Why are we talking about this?
> 
> ANNA IS DEAD FOR GOD'S SAKE!


ROTFLMFAO !!!!!  :Chairshot:

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## guest589745

Well gay people are related to the devil aren't they?

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## biglouie250

> I was waiting for someone to pull my name into this. You are afraid of me why?



your angry black man face is scary

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## biglouie250

> I am a gay man and seeing a penis does not get me excited. Are you attracted to every woman you see? Are you attracted to every breast you see? I sincerely hope not. It would mean you're getting off when you look at my grand mother.


look at the context. tim hardaway was in the best shape of his life as a BB player. So a gay man would see a cut and in shape athlete.... Id liken it to me seeing a fitness model naked and in their best shape. that would excite me. an old man or flabby guy id assume wouldnt appeal to a gay man just like out of shape or elder women dont appeal to me. of course there will be chubby chasers on both sides.

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## Mike Dura

? you're kidding I hope. Ignorance is scary.




> Well gay people are related to the devil aren't they?

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## Snrf

> ? you're kidding I hope. Ignorance is scary.


yeah skull was joking.


(i think)

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## Tock

> look at the context. tim hardaway was in the best shape of his life as a BB player. So a gay man would see a cut and in shape athlete.... Id liken it to me seeing a fitness model naked and in their best shape. that would excite me. an old man or flabby guy id assume wouldnt appeal to a gay man just like out of shape or elder women dont appeal to me. of course there will be chubby chasers on both sides.


I guess you're easier to excite than I am. BB players don't do much for me, even if they're "cut and in shape." But then again, I can't speak for all gay or straight men . . . and I'm sure you don't, either . . .

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## guest589745

> yeah skull was joking.
> 
> 
> (i think)



I coulda swore I read in the inquirer that ancient remains of two males with small goat like horns on their foreheads, having sexual intercourse, were found deep within the center of the earth in a blazing inferno. The remains were thought to be that of the first gay male couple ever. No way it could've been made up.

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## Snrf

> I coulda swore I read in the inquirer that ancient remains of two males with small goat like horns on their foreheads, having sexual intercourse, were found deep within the center of the earth in a blazing inferno. The remains were thought to be that of the first gay male couple ever. No way it could've been made up.



if the national enquirer printed it it must be true!

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## Ufa

In before the lock!

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## DTBusta

There are two different schools of thought on this matter.The right wingers seem to be the most off. Example Ted Haggert. Heres a man that was head of the evangelical church in Colorado. Married with children he headed up the 'New Life' church there with anit-gay propaganda. Telling people its a sick behavior. Then when he was caught in the act of drugs and a gay male prositute he resigned in discrace. However was this dude in the closet or what? He went to a rehab and came out saying he was hetero again. WTF I just don't get it. You can't do those things for years and go behind your wifes back if you really aren't gay. Please somone explaint his to me. Is he bi or what? and why come out and tell your followers that you are healed of being gay? What horrible kind of signal does that send to the millions hes preached to over the years?

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## guest589745

> if the national enquirer printed it it must be true!



See, snrf knows whats up.

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## Snrf

They found heaven a couple years ago. did you see that one? looked strangely like a photoshopped building on a cloud.

you'd think god would be able to come up with something better than that

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## guest589745

> They found heaven a couple years ago. did you see that one? looked strangely like a photoshopped building on a cloud.
> 
> you'd think god would be able to come up with something better than that



Thats the day I became a christian.

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## Forza Mentale

> don't say "we heteros" like you're speaking for all of us.


somehow, I do not think that anyone was trying to include you that camp....

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## Snrf

> somehow, I do not think that anyone was trying to include you that camp....


What?

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## SMYL_GR8

I am in one of the most heavily populated gay areas in the country and it IS different. They DO gawk at me in the gym (not all, of course, but they make it so obvious when they do) and my patients DO come on to me (men much more than women and with much LESS discretion). They are MUCH more forward than women and much more interested in "physical activity" than any kind of relationship. Like I said, it's parafunctional, contrasurvival and aberrated.

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## Tock

> They are MUCH more forward than women and much more interested in "physical activity" than any kind of relationship. Like I said, it's parafunctional, contrasurvival and aberrated.


Tacky, for sure. I get more than my fair share of come-ons, and while somewhat flattering, it's still basically unwanted and annoying. It's the price for being pretty, I guess . . . 

But parafunctional, contrasurvival and aberrated? I dunno about that. A lot of guys I know do the same thing with women, and they're considered "normal" to other horney guys. I suppose the local First Baptist Church types might consider them parafunctional & etc. along with being sinful. 

Ya gotta admit, though, that looking good is good for your business, yes?

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## Tock

Here's George Takai's (Sulu on _Star Trek_) take on the controversy --

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA20dKc3kK8 

funny . . .

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## SMYL_GR8

> Tacky, for sure. I get more than my fair share of come-ons, and while somewhat flattering, it's still basically unwanted and annoying. It's the price for being pretty, I guess . . . 
> 
> But parafunctional, contrasurvival and aberrated? I dunno about that. A lot of guys I know do the same thing with women, and they're considered "normal" to other horney guys. I suppose the local First Baptist Church types might consider them parafunctional & etc. along with being sinful. 
> 
> Ya gotta admit, though, that looking good is good for your business, yes?


Good for business? I guess. They do say that the average CEO is almost 6' tall while the average man is 5' 8" and there shouldn't be any correlation. I know plenty of ugly short dentists that outproduce me, but it obviously helps in life in general with that first impression.

It's contrasurvival b/c men with men can't procreate and the goal of every action of every animal on this planet (including homo sapiens) is geared in one way or another toward procreation.

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## Tock

> It's contrasurvival b/c men with men can't procreate and the goal of every action of every animal on this planet (including homo sapiens) is geared in one way or another toward procreation.


There's a difference between _survival_ of the species and _flourishing_. Some parts of the planet are woefully overpopulated, limited resources are divided amongst increasing # of people, lowering living standards, in some places increasing misery. One simple and workable way to decrease this problem a few % is to allow people the homosexual option, if they so wish. Fewer babies in places like Mexico City, Sudan, China, the Sahara, Brazil, etc, would releive the burden humans place on resources. As long as it's voluntary, what's the problem? None that I can see . . .

Ya, too much procreation is not a good thing . . .

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