# GENERAL FORUM > IN THE NEWS >  World wants Obama as next US president

## Prada

http://www.thewest.com.au/aapstory.a...oryName=513459

0th September 2008, 3:27 WST

Most people around the world would prefer Democrat Barack Obama to win the US presidential election over his Republican rival John McCain, a new poll spanning 22 countries - including Australia - showed.

The BBC World Service survey found the most common view in all nations polled was that Obama - who staged a euphoric European and Middle Eastern tour in July that included a speech to 200,000 fans in Berlin - should win in November.

An average of 46 per cent of those questioned thought US relations with the rest of the world would improve if Obama took office, compared to just 20 per cent for McCain, the survey of 22,500 people found.

Global approval ratings for the United States are currently low - a BBC World Service poll earlier this year found 49 per cent of people surveyed had a negative view of US influence, compared to 32 per cent who viewed it positively.

Those most optimistic about an Obama presidency's impact on US external relations were people in America's NATO allies - Canada, France, Germany, Britain and Italy - as well as Australia, Nigeria and Kenya.

Forty-six per cent said having a black US president would "fundamentally change" their perception of the United States, and 27 per cent said it would not.

"Large numbers of people around the world clearly like what Barack Obama represents," said Doug Miller, chairman of GlobeScan which conducted the poll.

"Given how negative America's international image is at present, it is quite striking that only one in five think a McCain presidency would improve on the Bush administration's relations with the world."

However, there is nothing to suggest Obama's popularity abroad will bring success at home - he is neck and neck with McCain in US opinion polls, and a similar BBC survey before the 2004 US election found strong global support for John Kerry, the Democrat who eventually lost to incumbent George Bush.

Internationally, the margin in favour of Obama ranged from just nine per cent in India to 82 per cent in Kenya, where the Democrat has family. On average, 49 per cent preferred Obama to 12 per cent in favour of McCain.

Nearly four in 10 people did not take a position, with this attitude most common in Russia, Singapore, Turkey, India and Egypt.

An average of 46 per cent thought US relations with the rest of the world would improve under Obama, 22 per cent thought they would stay the same and seven per cent thought they would get worse.

Only 20 per cent thought relations would improve under McCain, although this figure was around 30 per cent in China, India and Nigeria. An average 37 per cent expected no change and 16 per cent thought relations would get worse.

There was less optimism, however, in the three predominantly Muslim countries involved in the poll.

The most common view in Turkey - held by 28 per cent of people - was that relations under Obama would get worse, while in Egypt and Lebanon the largest groups (34 and 42 per cent respectively) believed relations would not change.

The survey was carried out in July and August in Australia, Brazil, Canada, China, Egypt, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, Italy, Kenya, Lebanon, Mexico, Nigeria, Panama, the Philippines, Poland, Russia, Singapore, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates, Britain and the United States.

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## VWbug66

go obama!!

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## peachfuzz

i dont even know where to start. so im not going to.

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## thegodfather

Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy for Socialism!!! WOOT WOOT WOOT WOOT....

*VOTE: OBAMA/MA** 08!*

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## VWbug66

x-infinity godfather!! we're in a deep need for CHANGE.

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## 39+1

K.I.S.S Just vote for the best looking woman

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## beefjr22

I am not voting for obama, not gonna pay more taxes so lil reymond riding welfare and unemployment can get more food stamps....JMO

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## spywizard

the rest of the world?? you mean all the people that are paying 50% + taxes stoning people in the streets and killing anyone that is different than them?? 

those people??

yet another reason to vote republican..

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## peachfuzz

> K.I.S.S Just vote for the best looking woman





> I am not voting for obama, not gonna pay more taxes so lil reymond riding welfare and unemployment can get more food stamps....JMO





> the rest of the world?? you mean all the people that are paying 50% + taxes stoning people in the streets and killing anyone that is different than them?? 
> 
> those people??
> 
> yet another reason to vote republican..


 :7up:

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## beefjr22

> the rest of the world?? you mean all the people that are paying 50% + taxes stoning people in the streets and killing anyone that is different than them?? 
> 
> those people??
> 
> yet another reason to vote republican..


Amen brother!

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## rhino1

Rest of the world my a$$...if he takes office there will be another 9/11....liberals are reason we get attacked...Im no bush fan but there has not been another successfull terrorist attack in 7 years!....he was doing something right....

Personally...

I would have nuked the 4-5 known capitals that were sponsoring that sun va b1tch bin laden......that would have stopped this $hit real quick

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## deliverance

> I am not voting for obama, not gonna pay more taxes so lil reymond riding welfare and unemployment can get more food stamps....JMO



bro i totally agree with you on that...lazy muthafvk*** need to get off there asses and get a job and obama ant about that...talks a good game but aint worth a pennie...how are you going to be president but can tmake simple decisions....raise my taxes for what so he can get paid more and peole without jobs can sti there and live off of society...obama and people like him are leeches of our society today...how does you vp pick say your not ready to be pres. he was picked cause he opposed obama and obama knew if i pick him he will change his statement just so the vp can be in the whit house....besides against us in our ventures on the gear.....

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## rhino1

the only reason the WHOLE WORLD wants obama is because it would make us the weakest...thus the end of an empire

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## rhino1

not to mention....i cant stand a mother fvcker that wants something that they wont get off their a$$ to work for...

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## thegodfather

> the only reason the WHOLE WORLD wants obama is because it would make us the weakest...thus the end of an empire


You ought to read this one document, I think you would find it very enlightening and it's something you probably have never even read before. It's actually this piece of paper, that your entire country is based on. This document is called the *Constitution of the United States of America.* 

In this mysterious piece of paper, you will not find in there any provision or authority to maintain an "EMPIRE" and to advance Imperialist agenda's. If you do find that Article or Amendment, please share it with the board.

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## rhino1

> You ought to read this one document, I think you would find it very enlightening and it's something you probably have never even read before. It's actually this piece of paper, that your entire country is based on. This document is called the *Constitution of the United States of America.* 
> 
> In this mysterious piece of paper, you will not find in there any provision or authority to maintain an "EMPIRE" and to advance Imperialist agenda's. If you do find that Article or Amendment, please share it with the board.


Yea...and i bet you wont find anything about your liberal ideology and how it will cause us to loose our freedom....

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## Mighty Joe

Obama = weak USA and lots more Government and more Taxes.... And you don't even wanna know the truth about socialized medicine!

Vote McCain

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## Prada

> the rest of the world?? you mean all the people that are paying 50% + taxes stoning people in the streets and killing anyone that is different than them?? 
> 
> those people??
> 
> yet another reason to vote republican..


Just curious. Is that how you view the rest of the world?

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## Prada

> Rest of the world my a$$...if he takes office there will be another 9/11....liberals are reason we get attacked...Im no bush fan but there has not been another successfull terrorist attack in 7 years!....he was doing something right....
> 
> *Personally...
> 
> I would have nuked the 4-5 known capitals that were sponsoring that sun va b1tch bin laden......that would have stopped this $hit real quick*


 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Bravo.

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## spywizard

> Just curious. Is that how you view the rest of the world?



I judge the rest of the world on what they do, and what they stand for, based on the values that i value.

example; 

free speech
value of human life
justice, meaning even when it hurts standing up for a weaker person


example; United nations, started off as a great idea, however the people that are running it are corrupt (another non favorable ideology) example of that is the Food for Fuel payoffs, bribes and everything else

Example; Bigotry... France as an example stopping all visa's into the country because of dilution of their own race/culture

example; South africa, attacking cities and mass raping the women to simply impregnate them attempting to create a situation of genocide of a whole race/villiage

example; asia, human slavery, child prostitution

does the usa have all of this?? yes, but we spend Billions $$$ to stop it, it's a moral high ground for human rights, not based on religious rights.. 

see a difference.. ??

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## BlInDsIdE

> Obama = weak USA and lots more Government and more Taxes.... And you don't even wanna know the truth about socialized medicine!
> 
> Vote McCain


totally agree

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## beefjr22

> bro i totally agree with you on that...lazy muthafvk*** need to get off there asses and get a job and obama ant about that...talks a good game but aint worth a pennie...how are you going to be president but can tmake simple decisions....raise my taxes for what so he can get paid more and peole without jobs can sti there and live off of society...obama and people like him are leeches of our society today...how does you vp pick say your not ready to be pres. he was picked cause he opposed obama and obama knew if i pick him he will change his statement just so the vp can be in the whit house....besides against us in our ventures on the gear.....


Yeah,,, no sh*t Obama sits there and says I gotta pay for raykwan to get "higher education" so he can get a better paying job.....well seems to me if u keep giving raykwan his handouts, at my expense, then ur sending the message that u dont need to go get an education for a better paying job b/c the gov will take care of u at the expense of others

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## rhino1

fvck OBAMA...he is the anti-christ

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## Mike Dura

Wow. Plenty of ill-informed people posting! Always the confident ones too. Funny.  :0piss:

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## rhino1

> Wow. Plenty of ill-informed people posting! Always the confident ones too. Funny.


said the liberal

btw...liberalism is a mental disorder

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## Pooks

now this was written before Palin :-p

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## rhino1

dont underestimate palin...i have a feeling she can handle it...

hell has no fury like a woman scorned

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## Flagg

> dont underestimate palin...i have a feeling she can handle it...
> 
> hell has no fury like a woman scorned



Are you living in the real world?

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## beefjr22

> Are you living in the real world?


dude if obama bin laden gets elected we are fvcked bottomline

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## rhino1

> dude if obama bin laden gets elected we are fvcked bottomline


for real

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## Mr Tick

> dude if obama bin laden gets elected we are fvcked bottomline


Yep and im moving to a island in the caribbean!!

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## thegodfather

Rhino and Beefjr...You guys are in way over your head in this conversation. Trying to discuss politics with people who actually have a grasp on the political situation in this country. All I hear either of you doing is voicing your propagandized redneck opinions that you most likely are parroting from Fox News network. 

Beefjr... You really need to attack Obama's name and make yourself sound like an inbred hick that hasn't graduated the 6th grade? There are a plethora of policy issues for which you could attack the guy and make him seem equally as unappealing to Americans, as many of his ideas are extremely left wing and Socialist. Maybe you could have pointed out the fact that he voted for the FISA bill which had a provision in it to grant immunity to telecom company's who were complicit in breaking the law and violating American citizen's civil liberties. You would have surely sounded much more intelligent and your argument would not have been predicated on a falsehood which you no doubt pulled off of Ann Coulter's blog or some other such right wing extremist site. However, I highly doubt that and most likely you picked up the "Osama bin laden" line from some other inbred hillbilly at your hunting lodge(i mean doublewide). 

Rhino1...If you knew the true definition of a liberal, which was a person who believed in civil liberties and individualism you might not be spouting off at the mouth the way you are. It is only in the last couple decades that liberalism has such a perverted meaning which is associated with bleeding heart liberal Democrats. I am a registered Republican(Conservative/Libertarian). However, when you repeat baseless arguments which an Amobea could have pieced together, you are not helping the party out one bit. You simply serve to reaffirm some peoples prejudices and stereotypes that the Republican party is a bunch of good ole boys. I can't say that I'd expect much more from you, as I haven't seen you put forth one coherent sentence yet, so I'd imagine that piecing together an entire argument more then 3 sentences based on facts and statistics would likely be an impossible task for you. 

So in closing, you guys ought to leave the politicking up to the people who know what they're talking about and can actually represent the party in a positive manner. Try biting your tongue the next time you feel compelled to interject your mindless uneducated opinions into threads where something of substantative value is being discussed.

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## Pooks

I hope this helps a bit.



http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3043/...1876a7e1_o.jpg

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## peachfuzz

At the risk of sounding ignorant...Show me an honest politician, and ill show you a man (or woman) with no job. Really makes it hard to inform yourself on the candidates when there platform is built on lies and deceit.

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## Pooks

> At the risk of sounding ignorant...Show me an honest politician, and ill show you a man (or woman) with no job. Really makes it hard to inform yourself on the candidates when there platform is built on lies and deceit.


99% of them are power-hungry.. which means they're "STATIST" BIG GOVERNMENT control over everything...


There are some exceptions, but neither of the 2 big names in the race are it.

Problem is people want to be helped by the government in some form or another...
so they'll gravitate to something in their platform, not realizing that they are giving away rights in the process in some way or another also.

Ron Paul would had been the best thing for this country,, but his platform, of balancing the budget.. and not specifically helping any group in general.. just the overall health of the nation, hardly got any traction outside college students, old school republicans, and liberitarians.

The other candidates divide the nation, with class warfare this or that.. Ron Paul did not do that, and he got pushed aside.

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## Flagg

> Rhino and Beefjr...You guys are in way over your head in this conversation. Trying to discuss politics with people who actually have a grasp on the political situation in this country. All I hear either of you doing is voicing your propagandized redneck opinions that you most likely are parroting from Fox News network. 
> 
> Beefjr... You really need to attack Obama's name and make yourself sound like an inbred hick that hasn't graduated the 6th grade? There are a plethora of policy issues for which you could attack the guy and make him seem equally as unappealing to Americans, as many of his ideas are extremely left wing and Socialist. Maybe you could have pointed out the fact that he voted for the FISA bill which had a provision in it to grant immunity to telecom company's who were complicit in breaking the law and violating American citizen's civil liberties. You would have surely sounded much more intelligent and your argument would not have been predicated on a falsehood which you no doubt pulled off of Ann Coulter's blog or some other such right wing extremist site. However, I highly doubt that and most likely you picked up the "Osama bin laden" line from some other inbred hillbilly at your hunting lodge(i mean doublewide). 
> 
> Rhino1...If you knew the true definition of a liberal, which was a person who believed in civil liberties and individualism you might not be spouting off at the mouth the way you are. It is only in the last couple decades that liberalism has such a perverted meaning which is associated with bleeding heart liberal Democrats. I am a registered Republican(Conservative/Libertarian). However, when you repeat baseless arguments which an Amobea could have pieced together, you are not helping the party out one bit. You simply serve to reaffirm some peoples prejudices and stereotypes that the Republican party is a bunch of good ole boys. I can't say that I'd expect much more from you, as I haven't seen you put forth one coherent sentence yet, so I'd imagine that piecing together an entire argument more then 3 sentences based on facts and statistics would likely be an impossible task for you. 
> 
> So in closing, you guys ought to leave the politicking up to the people who know what they're talking about and can actually represent the party in a positive manner. Try biting your tongue the next time you feel compelled to interject your mindless uneducated opinions into threads where something of substantative value is being discussed.




Bravo Godfather, excellently said. I can't stand people that hate on a politician or a political way of thinking based on their ignorant KKK "white is right" way of thinking. I would go as far to say I know the REAL reason they hate Obama, and im pretty sure you could hazzard a good guess as well but I wont start a flame war.

By the way Rhino, before spouting "liberal" like it's a dirty word, go visit New York one day and take a look at the statue that stands erect on the 12acre island, ask yourself what its called and what it stands for.

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## Pooks

> Bravo Godfather, excellently said. I can't stand people that hate on a politician or a political way of thinking based on their ignorant KKK "white is right" way of thinking. I would go as far to say I know the REAL reason they hate Obama, and im pretty sure you could hazzard a good guess as well but I wont start a flame war.
> 
> By the way Rhino, before spouting "liberal" like it's a dirty word, go visit New York one day and take a look at the statue that stands erect on the 12acre island, ask yourself what its called and what it stands for.


Democrats got their ignorants too... just to point out.. Like he's old ..ageism. .stuff and etc...

Usually brainwashed kidz, that sadly trust their Teachers too much. Teachers got a vested interest in any Statist candidate.. especially a Democrat one. Most of these people aren't going to be able to truly think on their own, until they're in their late 20s or 30s.. and completely not dependent on other people to take care of them, and on their way as free thinking individuals. Than they can argue what makes more sense.. trickle down economics.. or wealth distribution, because the theory goes poor people spend more than wealthy people, who usually save more.. to stimulate the economy. Sadly both of these theories are also somewhat one sided.. same as how most candidates are statists instead of libertarian. Gold standard rarely gets mentioned as a serious way of doing business.

Ron Paul predicted the fall or Fannie and Freddi mac back in 2003.. just google Ron Paul 2003 Freddie mac.. he predicted the bail out to the dot.. he also said the bailout will not work in the long run.. he introduced a bill in 2003 to avoid the housing failure... CONGRESS IGNORED HIM.

he again brought up fannie and freddie earlier this year.. sending out another warning about their imminent failure.. and people are still not talking that much about the economy in the future.. these bailouts just add to the national debt..

same as bad loans added to the fannie n freddie debt..
eventually we're gonna get really Screwed. This economic slowdown is nothing.. just the tip of the iceberg, unless things change and fast.

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## MuscleScience

> Democrats got their ignorants too... just to point out.. Like he's old ..ageism. .stuff and etc...
> 
> Usually brainwashed kidz, that sadly trust their Teachers too much. Teachers got a vested interest in any Statist candidate.. especially a Democrat one. Most of these people aren't going to be able to truly think on their own, until they're in their late 20s or 30s.. and completely not dependent on other people to take care of them, and on their way as free thinking individuals. Than they can argue what makes more sense.. trickle down economics.. or wealth distribution, because the theory goes poor people spend more than wealthy people, who usually save more.. to stimulate the economy. Sadly both of these theories are also somewhat one sided.. same as how most candidates are statists instead of libertarian. Gold standard rarely gets mentioned as a serious way of doing business.
> 
> Ron Paul predicted the fall or Fannie and Freddi mac back in 2003.. just google Ron Paul 2003 Freddie mac.. he predicted the bail out to the dot.. he also said the bailout will not work in the long run.. he introduced a bill in 2003 to avoid the housing failure... CONGRESS IGNORED HIM.
> 
> he again brought up fannie and freddie earlier this year.. sending out another warning about their imminent failure.. and people are still not talking that much about the economy in the future.. these bailouts just add to the national debt..
> 
> same as bad loans added to the fannie n freddie debt..
> eventually we're gonna get really Screwed. This economic slowdown is nothing.. just the tip of the iceberg, unless things change and fast.


Though I do not agree with all of Ron Paul's ideas, I cant help but stop and listen every time he speaks. He is very intelligent and thinks outside the political norm. I love listening to his ideas because it really makes me stop and think about things. I am not totally in line with his foreign policy, but practically everything else he says i agree with 100%

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## binder

just as an FYI: according to the birth certificate he isn't black. He's milano (half black and half white). So one can't say he's anymore a "black" candidate over a "white" candidate.

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## Pooks

> Though I do not agree with all of Ron Paul's ideas, I cant help but stop and listen every time he speaks. He is very intelligent and thinks outside the political norm. I love listening to his ideas because it really makes me stop and think about things. I am not totally in line with his foreign policy, but practically everything else he says i agree with 100%


Awesome... yeah Ron Paul is good for you, like milk. You can dominate any political conversation by just educating yourself on his philosophy.. just ask Godfather  :Wink/Grin:  but a lot of this is also just basic economics MINUS opinionated stuff they add to the economic books but can't really prove.. PROPAGANDA.

.. and to think I used to think politics were boring.. lol

and unlike anarchist movements which are fun, but lack substance, Ron Paul movement got both..

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## Flagg

> Democrats got their ignorants too... just to point out.. Like he's old ..ageism. .stuff and etc...
> 
> Usually brainwashed kidz, that sadly trust their Teachers too much. Teachers got a vested interest in any Statist candidate.. especially a Democrat one. Most of these people aren't going to be able to truly think on their own, until they're in their late 20s or 30s.. and completely not dependent on other people to take care of them, and on their way as free thinking individuals. Than they can argue what makes more sense.. trickle down economics.. or wealth distribution, because the theory goes poor people spend more than wealthy people, who usually save more.. to stimulate the economy. Sadly both of these theories are also somewhat one sided.. same as how most candidates are statists instead of libertarian. Gold standard rarely gets mentioned as a serious way of doing business.
> 
> Ron Paul predicted the fall or Fannie and Freddi mac back in 2003.. just google Ron Paul 2003 Freddie mac.. he predicted the bail out to the dot.. he also said the bailout will not work in the long run.. he introduced a bill in 2003 to avoid the housing failure... CONGRESS IGNORED HIM.
> 
> he again brought up fannie and freddie earlier this year.. sending out another warning about their imminent failure.. and people are still not talking that much about the economy in the future.. these bailouts just add to the national debt..
> 
> same as bad loans added to the fannie n freddie debt..
> eventually we're gonna get really Screwed. This economic slowdown is nothing.. just the tip of the iceberg, unless things change and fast.



Ageism, damn I can't get over that New-Age term. There's another forum where the Presidential Election is being discussed, and I was called an "Ageist". Naturally I was "wtf?" but there's even a wikipedia explanation for it, I mean where did this term come from? Cosmo? 
At the end of the day, McCain IS old, he IS 72, he has had cancer three times and 1 in 5 Presidents have died while serving in term. It's a fact, that when people get old, they become more succeptable to illness', I wish it weren't true but no one will live forever. It's not being an "Ageist", its being a realist. President Palin is a million times worse than President McCain OR Obama could ever be, and that's what will happen if McCain gets in and croaks.

Are there any Ron Paul supporters that would be in favour of Jesse Ventura running for Office in 2012?

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## stallion_1

we need somebody that solves the damn issues

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## thegodfather

> Are there any Ron Paul supporters that would be in favour of Jesse Ventura running for Office in 2012?



Yes, but only if he knocks off that 9/11 Truth shit...He discredits all of his genuine libertarian arguments by endorsing that movement.

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## rhino1

ron paul didn't predict anything....it was michael savage...

and to you FAIRY GOD MOTHER...if your party practiced as defined by you....being a liberal wouldn't be a bad thing...I understand that each party has their radicals and problem people...and that is not what i stand for....

I dont care how well spoken you think you are...you can rationalize it any way you want...whatever makes you feel good...i dont give a fvck...take your 'well spoken a$$' on the air and have a conversation with michael savage...we will see how smart you think you are

you can knock on me...id expect it from you...and go ahead an play the race card

I am not a democrat
I am not a republican

I AM A NATIONALIST

i stand for fredom, liberty and the preservation of our language, borders and culture....not socialism and comunism like you

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## rhino1

> All I hear either of you doing is voicing your propagandized redneck opinions that you most likely are parroting from Fox News network.


dude first of all...just because you own a thesaurus doesn't make you smart...

all fox and all of these media sources are driven from the liberal perspective....im not so sure what you mean about me parroting from fox...i would never repeat what any liberal meadia source said...they are exactly what i am against.

now...take a couple hours and make a rough draft or two and then post another reply...i'll be here

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## Pooks

> ron paul didn't predict anything....it was michael savage...
> 
> I am not a democrat
> I am not a republican
> 
> I AM A NATIONALIST
> 
> i stand for fredom, liberty and the preservation of our language, borders and culture....not socialism and comunism like you



Ok...

Well bottom line is this... anyone who would open up their eyes, would had seen it coming.. it does not take a genius to predict what was going to happen ... but the government refused to fix the problem ahead of time. and now they NATIONALIZED home loans business.. by bailing out and taking control of freddie mac and fannie mae.

And Nationalism does not stand for freedom.. Nationalism is a Statist way of thinking.. it stands for big government.. it stands for control over the population.. it is what Saddam Hussein, Stalin, Hitler, Milosevic, and tons of other dictator stood for... Also our "One party" the "Statist party system pretty much stands for also. The Progressives with their income tax BS.

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## thegodfather

> ron paul didn't predict anything....it was michael savage...
> 
> and to you FAIRY GOD MOTHER...if your party practiced as defined by you....being a liberal wouldn't be a bad thing...I understand that each party has their radicals and problem people...and that is not what i stand for....
> 
> I dont care how well spoken you think you are...you can rationalize it any way you want...whatever makes you feel good...i dont give a fvck...take your 'well spoken a$$' on the air and have a conversation with michael savage...we will see how smart you think you are
> 
> you can knock on me...id expect it from you...and go ahead an play the race card
> 
> I am not a democrat
> ...


What culture? The United States is a conglomeration of MANY cultures, races, and ethnicity's. Unless you are a Native American that belonged to one of the tribes, your argument is nullified. 

You stand for freedom? Freedom for who? Just yourself. You advocate the Iraq war, a people who we oppress for the actions of others which they had nothing to do with. That is certainly not freedom or liberty. You pretend to stand for things that you dont even know the definition of. If you really stood for freedom and liberty you would be advocating that your government mind its own business, not kill people in foregin lands, and respect the Constitution of the United States. I imagine that freedom&liberty are words as foriegn to you as grammar, toothbrush, and intelligence. You advoate freedom for yourself, but at the expense of 1 million Iraqi civilians.

If you were in fact capable of independent thought, and not that of the spoon fed garbage you pick up from the news, then you too would realise that the people of Iraq had nothing to do what so ever with 9/11, and never posed a national security threat to our country. To believe otherwise is to burry your head under a pillow and shout "im not listeninng." 

You're positions on issues are absurd and furthermore they are not backed up by facts which are based in reality. Please, support your positions with FACTS that are documented, not you're 'nationalist' whims. 


I also stated previously that I was a libertarian. If you had bothered to look that word up, you would realise that they are the complete polar opposites of Communism and Socialism. I am one of the most vocal opponents of Socialism on this entire board, so by what definition are you using the word socialist to assume that I support them?

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## rhino1

> What culture? The United States is a conglomeration of MANY cultures, races, and ethnicity's. Unless you are a Native American that belonged to one of the tribes, your argument is nullified. 
> 
> You stand for freedom? Freedom for who? Just yourself. You advocate the Iraq war, a people who we oppress for the actions of others which they had nothing to do with. That is certainly not freedom or liberty. You pretend to stand for things that you dont even know the definition of. If you really stood for freedom and liberty you would be advocating that your government mind its own business, not kill people in foregin lands, and respect the Constitution of the United States. I imagine that freedom&liberty are words as foriegn to you as grammar, toothbrush, and intelligence. You advoate freedom for yourself, but at the expense of 1 million Iraqi civilians.
> 
> If you were in fact capable of independent thought, and not that of the spoon fed garbage you pick up from the news, then you too would realise that the people of Iraq had nothing to do what so ever with 9/11, and never posed a national security threat to our country. To believe otherwise is to burry your head under a pillow and shout "im not listeninng." 
> 
> You're positions on issues are absurd and furthermore they are not backed up by facts which are based in reality. Please, support your positions with FACTS that are documented, not you're 'nationalist' whims. 
> 
> 
> I also stated previously that I was a libertarian. If you had bothered to look that word up, you would realise that they are the complete polar opposites of Communism and Socialism. I am one of the most vocal opponents of Socialism on this entire board, so by what definition are you using the word socialist to assume that I support them?


have you been to iraq???

well my brother is on his 3rd tour...he is a commander of a bradley in the us army...the people of iraq want us over there....they are happy that we are setting them free of these radical sects of terrorists...i dont care what your possition is or how you twist my words...if you dont like it here why dont you go somewhere else??? your starting to sound like rosey o'donnel

go eat a snickers or 10

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## Kärnfysikern

> if you dont like it here why dont you go somewhere else???


Doesnt he has as much right and freedom to try and change things as you have trying to preserv them?

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## beefjr22

Lol this thread... Yeah im not voting Obama b/c hes black and im voting Mccain bc Palin is fvcking Hot....Thats why

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## Mike Dura

It's funny how the least informed can be the most confidently oppinionated. You have to guess that such a person is truly not interested in the topic at hand. Interestingly, this relationship between being ill-informed and high confidence has been examined and explained by social scientists. It's called the "discounting principle." By discounting competing hypothesis (or viewpoints), the one (usually overly simplified) viewpoint seems more salient. Hence, the high confidence. I borrowed Godfather's thesaurus for that one! LOL!

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## Mike Dura

Although I sense we have much different values, it's always a pleasure to see when the other side strives to be informed and supports their oppinions. Unfortunately, those who lean left often get that "rednecky" impression when they listen to the average joe conservative who often parrots (and never critically analyzes) what they hear on Rupert Murdock's outlets. When basic definitions are not understood.......call it what it is. IGNORANT (with just a twist of confidence) 




> Rhino and Beefjr...You guys are in way over your head in this conversation. Trying to discuss politics with people who actually have a grasp on the political situation in this country. All I hear either of you doing is voicing your propagandized redneck opinions that you most likely are parroting from Fox News network. 
> 
> Beefjr... You really need to attack Obama's name and make yourself sound like an inbred hick that hasn't graduated the 6th grade? There are a plethora of policy issues for which you could attack the guy and make him seem equally as unappealing to Americans, as many of his ideas are extremely left wing and Socialist. Maybe you could have pointed out the fact that he voted for the FISA bill which had a provision in it to grant immunity to telecom company's who were complicit in breaking the law and violating American citizen's civil liberties. You would have surely sounded much more intelligent and your argument would not have been predicated on a falsehood which you no doubt pulled off of Ann Coulter's blog or some other such right wing extremist site. However, I highly doubt that and most likely you picked up the "Osama bin laden" line from some other inbred hillbilly at your hunting lodge(i mean doublewide). 
> 
> Rhino1...If you knew the true definition of a liberal, which was a person who believed in civil liberties and individualism you might not be spouting off at the mouth the way you are. It is only in the last couple decades that liberalism has such a perverted meaning which is associated with bleeding heart liberal Democrats. I am a registered Republican(Conservative/Libertarian). However, when you repeat baseless arguments which an Amobea could have pieced together, you are not helping the party out one bit. You simply serve to reaffirm some peoples prejudices and stereotypes that the Republican party is a bunch of good ole boys. I can't say that I'd expect much more from you, as I haven't seen you put forth one coherent sentence yet, so I'd imagine that piecing together an entire argument more then 3 sentences based on facts and statistics would likely be an impossible task for you. 
> 
> So in closing, you guys ought to leave the politicking up to the people who know what they're talking about and can actually represent the party in a positive manner. Try biting your tongue the next time you feel compelled to interject your mindless uneducated opinions into threads where something of substantative value is being discussed.

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## DeputyLoneWolf

> bro i totally agree with you on that...lazy muthafvk*** need to get off there asses and get a job and obama ant about that...talks a good game but aint worth a pennie...how are you going to be president but can tmake simple decisions....raise my taxes for what so he can get paid more and peole without jobs can sti there and live off of society...obama and people like him are leeches of our society today...how does you vp pick say your not ready to be pres. he was picked cause he opposed obama and obama knew if i pick him he will change his statement just so the vp can be in the whit house....besides against us in our ventures on the gear.....


True.

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## DeputyLoneWolf

> Obama = weak USA and lots more Government and more Taxes.... And you don't even wanna know the truth about socialized medicine!
> 
> Vote McCain



Definately true.

And for the rest of you: If you think its wrong, or don't like hte fact that the USA is the best country on earth IN ALL ASPECTS then you don't belong here. So go ahead feel free to leave, you will not be missed.  :Welcome:

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## rhino1

> Definately true.
> 
> And for the rest of you: If you think its wrong, or don't like hte fact that the USA is the best country on earth IN ALL ASPECTS then you don't belong here. So go ahead feel free to leave, you will not be missed.


hell yea

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## Tony Q

Get ready to pay more taxes....

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## beefjr22

> Get ready to pay more taxes....


Yup apparently they dont care theyd also like to give all the mexicans in our country illegally free health care

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## BgMc31

> Get ready to pay more taxes....


Why don't you idiots do some research instead of just listening to talking points. Obama's tax plan will benefit 80% of the population. So unless you're making more than $250k/yr (and judging by the idiotic responses of most, I doubt your are) you will actually see relief.

Under McCain's proposal, he'll cut taxes for corporations. Cutting their tax burden from around 13 billion to 4 billion. With that much money no longer coming in, who do you think is going to make it up? 

As much as cats like GodFather and Blome differ from my point of view on the candidates, at least they do research and have viable arguments. Not bullshit racists, ignorant ideologies expoused by some of you other cats. Listening to Micheal Savage (I have called into his show and like Levin and Hannity, they will hang up on anyone who can debate better than themselves), doesn't make you an expert on anything, as a matter of fact it increases your stupidity!

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## thegodfather

> Why don't you idiots do some research instead of just listening to talking points. Obama's tax plan will benefit 80% of the population. So unless you're making more than $250k/yr (and judging by the idiotic responses of most, I doubt your are) you will actually see relief.
> 
> Under McCain's proposal, he'll cut taxes for corporations. Cutting their tax burden from around 13 billion to 4 billion. With that much money no longer coming in, who do you think is going to make it up? 
> 
> As much as cats like GodFather and Blome differ from my point of view on the candidates, at least they do research and have viable arguments. Not bullshit racists, ignorant ideologies expoused by some of you other cats. Listening to Micheal Savage (I have called into his show and like Levin and Hannity, they will hang up on anyone who can debate better than themselves), doesn't make you an expert on anything, as a matter of fact it increases your stupidity!


I guess I am biased and have somehwat of a vested interest because I will be making more than 250k/year. In any case, thank you for the compliment. Yea Mike Savage, its easy to be right when you can censor opposing viewpoints...

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## FallenWyvern

At the end of the day *for me* it could come to just taxes. But many people don't have that problem...

I am afraid that McCain has no other real angle.

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## Amorphic

> Obama = weak USA and lots more Government and more Taxes.... And you don't even wanna know the truth about socialized medicine!
> 
> Vote McCain


the truth about socialized medicine is that it can work. if people woke up and realized that the tax breaks the elite corporations get could properly fund an entire medicare system, the world would be in a better place.

hell, even taxing 3% of backed taxes that corporations owe could fund a ton of social systems.

big business is the problem, i dont understand how you anyone can be content in a world where 10% of the worlds population owns 90% of the worlds wealth

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## KingTenderloin

Why does it matter if the rest of the world wants Obama to be president? That doesn't sound good to me. Im not a pro in politics but im not voting for who the rest of the world wants thats ridiculous... theres a reason they want him

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## rhino1

isn't the president just a figure head anyway??? Dont the people with the $$$ really call the shots?

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## Amorphic

> isn't the president just a figure head anyway??? Dont the people with the $$$ really call the shots?


pretty much what i posted above, yeah.

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## Tony Q

[QUOTE=BgMc31;4198167]Why don't you idiots do some research instead of just listening to talking points. Obama's tax plan will benefit 80% of the population. So unless you're making more than $250k/yr (and judging by the idiotic responses of most, I doubt your are) you will actually see relief.

Under McCain's proposal, he'll cut taxes for corporations. Cutting their tax burden from around 13 billion to 4 billion. With that much money no longer coming in, who do you think is going to make it up? 

As much as cats like GodFather and Blome differ from my point of view on the candidates, at least they do research and have viable arguments. Not bullshit racists, ignorant ideologies expoused by some of you other cats. Listening to Micheal Savage (I have called into his show and like Levin and Hannity, they will hang up on anyone who can debate better than themselves), doesn't make you an expert on anything, as a matter of fact it increases your stupidity![/QUOTE
Sounds like you are still pissed that Kerry lost... Why do you resort to name calling? Democrats raise taxes... Sounds like you are infatuated by Barrack Hussein Obama... We must have hit a nerve... **** you...

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## BgMc31

[QUOTE=Tony Q;4202517]


> Why don't you idiots do some research instead of just listening to talking points. Obama's tax plan will benefit 80% of the population. So unless you're making more than $250k/yr (and judging by the idiotic responses of most, I doubt your are) you will actually see relief.
> 
> Under McCain's proposal, he'll cut taxes for corporations. Cutting their tax burden from around 13 billion to 4 billion. With that much money no longer coming in, who do you think is going to make it up? 
> 
> As much as cats like GodFather and Blome differ from my point of view on the candidates, at least they do research and have viable arguments. Not bullshit racists, ignorant ideologies expoused by some of you other cats. Listening to Micheal Savage (I have called into his show and like Levin and Hannity, they will hang up on anyone who can debate better than themselves), doesn't make you an expert on anything, as a matter of fact it increases your stupidity![/QUOTE
> Sounds like you are still pissed that Kerry lost... Why do you resort to name calling? Democrats raise taxes... Sounds like you are infatuated by Barrack Hussein Obama... We must have hit a nerve... **** you...


Another internet tough guy...

1st when and where did I mention John Kerry? See that is the reason why I'm voting democrat because 'No Child Left Behind' has left behind cats like you! Its painfully obvious that reading comprehension is no longer taught in school!

Dems do raise taxes, but so do Republicans. The difference between the two is Dems admit they will and Republicans always say they won't but end up doing it anyway and you sheep continue to believe them every election cycle!

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## Tony Q

Cats? hahahahaha another internet old fart tough guy!! hahahahaha

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## spywizard

and once again we see why flaming is not allowed, and why religion and politic threads were banned for so long.. 

calling people names because you can't get them to be like you (that's a bigot right) is the reason so many of these discussions end by having the thread closed..

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