# STEROIDS FORUM > ANABOLIC STEROIDS - QUESTIONS & ANSWERS >  Is Clenbuterol really that dangerous?

## Schwarz

Hey all,
I've been doing some research into Clen and it seems that the general message is that Clen is extremely dangerous and can cause severe heart problems. Just wondering if anyone has any feedback from their use of clen? Did you have any problems? What dose and protocol were you using?

Cheers for any feedback.

S

----------


## soulstealer

Clen is the devils candy.... would suit you best not to use it but if you decide to.... I would suggest nothing over 100mcg...even thats pushing it...would 200mcg's kill..... No but it'll make you feel like you're going to die....

----------


## mr newbreed

sorry for the hijack but im just running my pct,at the end of it can i run clen to reduce any fat i may have gained or am i better off waiting till i cycle again and use a test product with it..i have never used clen so any in depth advice would be nice

----------


## soulstealer

You dont take clen to reduce body fat.... you guys have it all wrong... clen is about as effective at reducing bodyfat as Ephedra.... maybe even less so.... the idea behind clen is retention of lean mass...so you can diet harder...

----------


## Amorphic

im not really a fan of clen . my bloodpressure was sky high on it and i didnt feel any amazing weight loss to go alongside the risks.

my dosages ranged from 160-200mcg of it. i didnt feel much worse at 200mcgs than 160, but the shaking and headaches are a total pain in the ass, especially if you are in school.

----------


## Schmidty

I fvckn luv clen , hate not being on it. Life just seems2burn a lil brighter when im on it. OH fvck, i gota go back2rehab...LOL. No clen reallt isnt that dangerous, as far as i know no human has ever died from it.

----------


## Amorphic

> I fvckn luv clen, hate not being on it. Life just seems2burn a lil brighter when im on it. OH fvck, i gota go back2rehab...LOL. No clen reallt isnt that dangerous, as far as i know no human has ever died from it.


i would disagree, clen can certainly be dangerous. dramatic increases in bp can result in strokes, enlargement of the left ventricle can increase the likelihood of cardiovascular disease.

i dont remember if anyone has died from it, but the potential is there, if you drank say 20mls of clen, i would wonder if you would survive or not.

----------


## longhorn814

clen didnt agree with my body at all..gave me high bp (160/110)..elevated resting heart rate 120 beats/min..even had an abnormal EKG..never got past 100 mcg and had only been on it for 7 days..it definitely affects your cardiovascular system..did it do perm damage to me? I have no idea..i'll never use it again..im with soul stealer too on it effectiveness too..you measure clen in such small microgram doses..it would be easy to accidentally take too much, especially if youre use the liquid version..my ex accidentally took about 600-800 mcg once..didnt know how to measure..i thought she was gonna die...theres an article in the new MD mag on clen poisioning..a guy took 100mcg, yes only 100mcg..and had to be admitted to hospital b/c of anxiety, shortness of breath and heart palpitations..his heart rate was a whopping 254 beats/min and an EKG indicated supraventrical tachycardia..it took 3 different drugs to stablize his heart rhythm!!

----------


## Amorphic

> clen didnt agree with my body at all..gave me high bp (160/110)..elevated resting heart rate 120 beats/min..even had an abnormal EKG..never got past 100 mcg and had only been on it for 7 days..it definitely affects your cardiovascular system..did it do perm damage to me? I have no idea..i'll never use it again..im with soul stealer too on it effectiveness too..you measure clen in such small microgram doses..it would be easy to accidentally take too much, especially if youre use the liquid version..my ex accidentally took about 600-800 mcg once..didnt know how to measure..i thought she was gonna die...theres an article in the new MD mag on clen poisioning..a guy took 100mcg, yes only 100mcg..and had to be admitted to hospital b/c of anxiety, shortness of breath and heart palpitations..*his heart rate was a whopping 254 beats/min and an EKG indicated supraventrical tachycardia..it took 3 different drugs to stablize his heart rhythm*!!


 holy crap

----------


## Schmidty

> i would disagree, clen can certainly be dangerous. dramatic increases in bp can result in strokes, enlargement of the left ventricle can increase the likelihood of cardiovascular disease.
> 
> i dont remember if anyone has died from it, but the potential is there, if you drank say 20mls of clen, i would wonder if you would survive or not.


I just orederd 60ml at200mcg/ml. So ill give it a shot LOL. No im not really gona try that. But clen sits with me wuite well, iv gonwe up2 22omcg a few times n still felt100%fine. Not sayn everybody should do,try, or like that, but i did.

----------


## magic32

Wow, that's a mouthful.




> You dont take clen to reduce body fat.... 
> *YOU'RE KIDDING RIGHT?
> HAVE YOU READ THE PROFILE, OR ANY CLEN STUDIES (ANIMAL OR HUMAN)? 
> 
> 
> 
> IT SERVES TO INCREASE BODY TEMPERATURE BY INCREASING HEAT PRODUCTION IN THE MITOCHONDRIA, WHICH ACCELERATES BASAL METABOLIC RATE, AND DECREASES YOUR APPETITE. THIS PARTLY EXPLAINS HOW BETA-2 AGONISTS DIRECTLY STIMULATE FAT CELLS AND INCREASES LYPOLYSIS (FAT-LOSS). 
> 
> ALSO, CLEN IS A VERY EFFECTIVE REPARTITIONING AGENT, AND THIS IS WHAT IT’S MOST OFTEN USED FOR IN ATHLETIC CIRCLES. IT WILL INCREASE YOUR RATIO OF FAT FREE MASS (FFM) TO FAT MASS, BY DECREASING FAT AND POSSIBLY INCREASING FFM.
> ...


As for its danger rating...this varies with the individual, and should be evaluated as such.

----------


## New2Anabolic

Clen is a double edged sword, but you can dull one edge if you dose it properly.

With improper use and dosage, you stand an increased risk of putting scar tissue in your heart valves (or something linear to that, I can't fully recall)

It's not 100% safe. No.
No AS is. That's why educational threads are abundant, and research is always needed!

----------


## Maldorf

I would never use the liquid variety, but only use tablets from a well known manufacturer. Liquids are too risky in that they might be dosed wrong, or you could slip up and give yourself the wrong dose. Many can routinely use 160mcg/day for two weeks cycles and have no long term adverse effects. Dose is different for everyone though. It will cause side effects such as elevated BP and heart rate, so its nothing to be taken lightly. Def not something to use longterm, more than 2 weeks at a time. It loses effectiveness after that long anyhow.

----------


## Merc..

[Abstracts contents page] [Muscle Contraction abstracts]
Puerto de la Cruz, Tenerife (2003) J Physiol 548P, O92 
Oral Communications
Apoptotic and necrotic myocyte death in the heart and soleus muscle of the rat in vivo: evidence of secondary necrosis 
J.G. Burniston*, L.-B. Tan†, W.A. Clark‡, N.T. Cable* and D.F. Goldspink*

*Research Institute for Sports and Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Liverpool L3 2ET, UK, †Department of Molecular and Vascular Medicine, University of Leeds, Leeds, UK and ‡Michael Reese Hospital and Medical Centre, Chicago, IL, USA
Search Medline for articles by:
Burniston, JG 
Clark, WA 
Cable, NT 
Goldspink, DF 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We have previously shown that the administration of the β2-adrenergic receptor agonist, clenbuterol , induces both apoptotic (Burniston et al. 2002b) and necrotic (Burniston et al. 2002a) cell death in the heart and soleus muscle of the rat. Here we demonstrate that these two death pathways occur sequentially with a substantial amount of co-localisation.

Male Wistar rats (Rattus norvegicus) (287 ± 20 g) were administered (S.C.) 5 mg kg-1 of clenbuterol (experimental groups) or the saline vehicle only (controls). Before being humanely killed at specific time points (2-24 h), hearts and soleus muscles were rapidly excised, snap frozen and serial cryosections (5 µm) cut. Apoptosis was detected using an anti-caspase 3 antibody (Ab; R&D systems). For the detection of necrotic myocytes, all animals received an injection (I.P.) of an anti-myosin Ab 1 h prior to the clenbuterol challenge. This Ab is too large to be admitted through the membrane of viable myocytes, but can enter and bind to the sarcomeric myosin of necrotic myocytes in vivo. Primary Ab binding was then amplified using secondary immunoperoxidase techniques and visualised with Nova Red (Vector Laboratories). Cell death was quantified in the subendocardial region of the heart and mid-belly of each soleus using image analysis. Results are expressed as percentage area, or percentage number of damaged fibres for the heart and soleus, respectively.

No cell death was found in the hearts or solei of animals receiving only the saline vehicle (zero time point). In contrast, administration of clenbuterol induced both apoptotic and necrotic cell death in both striated muscles (Fig. 1). Apoptosis was first observed after 2 h, and necrotic myocyte death at 4 h following clenbuterol administration. The clearance rate of apoptotic cell death also occurred earlier than that of necrosis with no apoptosis evident in either tissue after 24 h.

The sequential nature of the myocyte apoptosis and necrosis suggests that some of the necrotic cells may have been apoptotic cells which have undergone secondary necrosis. This was confirmed by double immunofluorescence labelling, which showed co-localisation of apoptotic and necrotic cells in both the cardiac and soleus muscles.


This work was supported by the British Heart Foundation



Burniston JG et al. (2002a). J Appl Physiol 93, 1824-1832.

Burniston JG et al. (2002b). J Physiol 543.P, 39P.


http://www.physoc.org/publications/p...siol%20548PO92


Merc.

----------


## magic32

Interesting.




> I would never use the liquid variety, but only use tablets from a well known manufacturer. 
> *I DEFINITELY AGREE HERE, THE ONLY TIME I USED A LIQUID L-TAURINE WAS A CONSTANT COMPANION AS CRAMPING WAS RAMPANT. I SWITCHED BACK TO TABS, AND NO PROBLEMS.*
> 
> Def not something to use longterm, more than 2 weeks at a time. It loses effectiveness after that long anyhow.
> *NOT FOR ME, BOTH CLEN AND EPH CONTINUE TO WORK THROUGHOUT CYCLES AS WELL AS FOR CONTINUED USE OF THE LATTER. I'LL ADD BENADRYL FROM TIME TO TIME, AND NOTICE A SLIGHTLY BETTER RESULT, BUT THEY ARE ALWAYS EFFECTIVE FOR ME.*

----------


## magic32

Sup Merc?

*At 5 mg kg-1 of clenbuterol (experimental groups)* , why wouldn't cell death occur? That's not only a grossly obtuse dosage for any human, but when the tiny body/heart of a rat is considered...cellular tissue death is the only logical conclusion.

----------


## Merc..

> Sup Merc?
> 
> *At 5 mg kg-1 of clenbuterol (experimental groups)* , why wouldn't cell death occur? That's not only a grossly obtuse dosage for any human, but when the tiny body/heart of a rat is considered...cellular tissue death is the only logical conclusion.


Yea it is a very large dose.. I was going to state that .. My cpu froze up on me ..

----------


## magic32

> Yea it is a *very large dose*.. I was going to state that .. My cpu froze up on me ..


*EXORBITANT!!!* :LOL:

----------


## Maldorf

> Sup Merc?
> 
> *At 5 mg kg-1 of clenbuterol (experimental groups)* , why wouldn't cell death occur? That's not only a grossly obtuse dosage for any human, but when the tiny body/heart of a rat is considered...cellular tissue death is the only logical conclusion.


Exactly! Thats insane. Remeber everyone that 1mg=1000 mcg. So if you weighed 100 kg you would be taking 500 mg/day. Thats equal to 500,000 mcg!!!! Highest dose ive known personally is just 200mcg/day. So that experimental dose is 2500 x as large! Hell,take anything at a dose that high and it will kill you!

----------


## perfectbeast2001

all the studies i have seen use huge doses in rats. It is up for debate wether humans would be effected at regular dosages. I have used clen many times and never had a problem. I do not use it much now as i am a big believer in using less drugs at lowest doses. I can control BF by diet and cardio alone so thats what i do.

----------


## hugovsilva

> Exactly! Thats insane. Remeber everyone that 1mg=1000 mcg. So if you weighed 100 kg you would be taking 500 mg/day. Thats equal to 500,000 mcg!!!! Highest dose ive known personally is just 200mcg/day. So that experimental dose is 2500 x as large! Hell,take anything at a dose that high and it will kill you!


Exactly! All the studies I have read on this issue use absurd dosages on rats. I never came across a study running normal 100 to 200mcg in humans. On the other hand I have ran clen at 100-120mcg for as long as 12 weeks without any serious problem, even done a EKG shortly after a cycle and nothing abnormal came up.

----------


## mr newbreed

so for me just finished a 14 week cycle and 3 days into pct when is the correct time to run clen and does anything need to be run with it ?
also at what dose and for how long,im now 16 stone on the mark,ive put a total of 17 pounds on with my last cycle

----------


## magic32

> so for me just finished a 14 week cycle and 3 days into pct when is the correct time to run clen and does anything need to be run with it ?
> also at what dose and for how long,im now 16 stone on the mark,ive put a total of 17 pounds on with my last cycle


Contrary to popular belief, ANYTIME is the correct time to run Clen. The number of weeks depends on your goals, but around six is average. Dosage is often contingent upon tolerance which can be especially problematic when using liquids (I have NO complications with tabs), but optimal doses are usually attained in the area of 120mcgs. ED. Ancillaries typically include L-Taurine which appears to govern the body's fluid distribution, though some use electrolytes w/varying success.

----------


## mr newbreed

> Contrary to popular belief, ANYTIME is the correct time to run Clen. The number of weeks depends on your goals, but around six is average. Dosage is often contingent upon tolerance which can be especially problematic when using liquids (I have NO complications with tabs), but optimal doses are usually attained in the area of 120mcgs. ED. Ancillaries typically include L-Taurine which appears to govern the body's fluid distribution, though some use electrolytes w/varying success.


so im ok to be running this at the end of my pct or even durring my pct,will it strip me of any muscle like t3 can-that is why i asked if a test product is ran with it..ive got t3 here and will be using them on next cycle

----------


## HURRICANE3500

heart disease is the leading cause of death in the usa today .. more then all cancers combine .. anything that phawks with your heart is bad period!

----------


## magic32

> so im ok to be running this at the end of my pct or even durring my pct,
> *ANYTIME!*
> 
> 
> will it strip me of any muscle like t3 can-
> *NO!*
> 
> that is why i asked if a test product is ran with it..ive got t3 here and will be using them on next cycle


T3 is indiscriminate, and thus best used on cycle.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...light=schering

----------


## taiboxa

you cant use lab studies like that... its just not right.
i mean hell, they made aspartame look bad... omg its killing the mice!! 
well YEAH ur feeding them their body weight in aspartame.

im sure if i ate 300lbs of aspartame ED i would have issues too.

----------


## magic32

> you cant use lab studies like that... its just not right.
> i mean hell, they made aspartame look bad... *omg its killing the mice!!* 
> well YEAH ur feeding them their body weight in aspartame.
> 
> im sure if i ate 300lbs of aspartame ED i would have issues too.


 :LOL:

----------


## The Deuce

> clen didnt agree with my body at all..gave me high bp (160/110)..elevated resting heart rate 120 beats/min..even had an abnormal EKG..never got past 100 mcg and had only been on it for 7 days..it definitely affects your cardiovascular system..did it do perm damage to me? I have no idea..i'll never use it again..im with soul stealer too on it effectiveness too..you measure clen in such small microgram doses..it would be easy to accidentally take too much, especially if youre use the liquid version..my ex accidentally took about 600-800 mcg once..didnt know how to measure..i thought she was gonna die...theres an article in the new MD mag on clen poisioning..a guy took 100mcg, yes only 100mcg..and had to be admitted to hospital b/c of anxiety, shortness of breath and heart palpitations..his heart rate was a whopping 254 beats/min and an EKG indicated supraventrical tachycardia..it took 3 different drugs to stablize his heart rhythm!!


WOW !!! SEE I STICK BY MY GUNS.. I WILL NEVER EVER EVER TRY CLEN . I SUFFER FROM ANXIETY SOMETIMES AND THE ATTACKS ARE SOMETIMES SEVERE... I CANT STAND THE FEELING OF A RACING PALPITATING HEART.. I SWEAR I AM HAVING A HEART ATTACK WHEN I AM IN THE MIDST OF A PANIC ATTACK AND I CAN ALMOST GUARANTEE THAT CLEN WOULD INSTANTLY INDUCE A PANIC ATTACK... SO NOPE NEVER FOR ME... 

I WILL JUST STICK TO MY TEST !!! :7UP:

----------


## Merc..

Heres one showing lower doses..  :LOL: 


clenbuterol and apoptosis 


J Appl Physiol. 2004 Dec 10; [Epub ahead of print] Related Articles, Links 


{beta}2-Adrenergic receptor stimulation in vivo induces apoptosis in the rat heart and soleus muscle.

Burniston JG, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.

Research Institute for Sports and Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Liverpool, United Kingdom.

High doses of the beta2-adrenergic receptor (AR) agonist, clenbuterol, can induce necrotic myocyte death in the heart and slow-twitch skeletal muscle of the rat. However, it is not known if this agent can also induce myocyte apoptosis and whether this would occur at a lower dose than previously reported for myocyte necrosis. Male Wistar rats were given single subcutaneous injections of clenbuterol. Immunohistochemistry was used to detect myocyte specific apoptosis (detected on cryosections using a caspase 3 antibody and confirmed using annexin V, single-strand DNA labelling and TUNEL). Myocyte apoptosis was first detected at 2 h, and peaked 4 h after clenbuterol administration. *The lowest dose of clenbuterol to induce cardiomyocyte apoptosis was 1 microg kg(-1*), with peak apoptosis (0.35 +/- 0.005 %; P<0.05) occurring in response to 5 mg kg(-1). In the soleus, peak apoptosis (5.8 +/- 2 %; P<0.05) was induced by the lower dose of 10 microg kg(-1). Cardiomyocyte apoptosis occurred throughout the ventricles, atria and papillary muscles. However, this damage was most abundant in the left ventricular subendocardium at a point 1.6 mm, that is, approximately one-quarter of the way from the apex towards the base. beta-AR antagonism (involving propranolol, bisoprolol or ICI 118,551) or reserpine was used to show that clenbuterol-induced myocardial apoptosis was mediated through neuromodulation of the sympathetic system and the cardiomyocyte beta1-AR, whereas in the soleus direct stimulation of the myocyte beta2-AR was involved. These data show that when administered in vivo, beta2-AR stimulation by clenbuterol is detrimental to cardiac and skeletal muscles even at low doses, by inducing apoptosis through beta1- and beta2-AR, respectively.
__________________

----------


## Merc..

Also

Dose-dependent separation of the hypertrophic and myotoxic effects of the beta(2)-adrenergic receptor agonist clenbuterol in rat striated muscles.

Burniston JG, Clark WA, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.

Research Institute for Sport & Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Webster Street, Liverpool L3 2ET, UK.

Muscle growth in response to large doses (milligrams per kilogram) of beta(2)-adrenergic receptor agonists has been reported consistently. However, such doses may also induce myocyte death in the heart and skeletal muscles and hence may not be safe doses for humans. We report the hypertrophic and myotoxic effects of different doses of clenbuterol. Rats were infused with clenbuterol (range, 1 mug to 1 mg.kg(-1)) for 14 days. Muscle protein content, myofiber cross-sectional area, and myocyte death were then investigated. Infusions of >/=10 mug.kg(-1).d(-1) of clenbuterol significantly (P < 0.05) increased the protein content of the heart (12%-15%), soleus (12%), plantaris (18%-29%), and tibialis anterior (11%-22%) muscles, with concomitant myofiber hypertrophy. Larger doses (100 mug or 1 mg) induced significant (P < 0.05) myocyte death in the soleus (peak 0.2 +/- 0.1% apoptosis), diaphragm (peak 0.15 +/- 0.1% apoptosis), and plantaris (peak 0.3 +/- 0.05% necrosis), and significantly increased the area fraction of collagen in the myocardium. _These data show that the low dose of 10 mug.kg(-1).d(-1) can be used in rats to investigate the anabolic effects of clenbuterol in the absence of myocyte death. Muscle Nerve, 2006._



So in this one it shows heart cell death at 10mcg per Kg..

Merc.

----------


## magic32

> So in this one it shows heart cell death at 10mcg per Kg..
> Merc.


It's a good thing heart cells multiply, else I'd be a goner...

...I'm on 120mcgs ED right now! :Bbhanging:  :Nopity: 
----------------
Seriously though, the studies are good ones but premature cellular death (CD) isn't that much different from regular CD. Unless of course the rate is greatly accelerated to the point that multiplication can't keep up, as this would cause tissue death, organ dysfunction, and eventual organ failure. So the quintessential question becomes, "Do any studies indicate Clenbuterol provoked tissue death, or consequent organ failure?"

As a rule I'm not a betting man, but odds are they don't, primarily because Clen is a legitimate drug and not a poisonous chemical, unlike say a certain phenol that shall remain nameless.

----------


## Schwarz

Wow well I see this threw up some interesting comments and analysis. Thanks to all who chimmed in esp the vets/mods.

Any other personal experiences would be interesting to hear....


Cheers all
S

----------


## perfectbeast2001

> Also
> 
> Dose-dependent separation of the hypertrophic and myotoxic effects of the beta(2)-adrenergic receptor agonist clenbuterol in rat striated muscles.
> 
> Burniston JG, Clark WA, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.
> 
> Research Institute for Sport & Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Webster Street, Liverpool L3 2ET, UK.
> 
> Muscle growth in response to large doses (milligrams per kilogram) of beta(2)-adrenergic receptor agonists has been reported consistently. However, such doses may also induce myocyte death in the heart and skeletal muscles and hence may not be safe doses for humans. We report the hypertrophic and myotoxic effects of different doses of clenbuterol. Rats were infused with clenbuterol (range, 1 mug to 1 mg.kg(-1)) for 14 days. Muscle protein content, myofiber cross-sectional area, and myocyte death were then investigated. Infusions of >/=10 mug.kg(-1).d(-1) of clenbuterol significantly (P < 0.05) increased the protein content of the heart (12%-15%), soleus (12%), plantaris (18%-29%), and tibialis anterior (11%-22%) muscles, with concomitant myofiber hypertrophy. Larger doses (100 mug or 1 mg) induced significant (P < 0.05) myocyte death in the soleus (peak 0.2 +/- 0.1% apoptosis), diaphragm (peak 0.15 +/- 0.1% apoptosis), and plantaris (peak 0.3 +/- 0.05% necrosis), and significantly increased the area fraction of collagen in the myocardium. _These data show that the low dose of 10 mug.kg(-1).d(-1) can be used in rats to investigate the anabolic effects of clenbuterol in the absence of myocyte death. Muscle Nerve, 2006._
> ...


so if you were thinking about running 1000mcg of clen a day then dont!

----------


## hugovsilva

> Also
> 
> Dose-dependent separation of the hypertrophic and myotoxic effects of the beta(2)-adrenergic receptor agonist clenbuterol in rat striated muscles.
> 
> Burniston JG, Clark WA, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.
> 
> Research Institute for Sport & Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Webster Street, Liverpool L3 2ET, UK.
> 
> Muscle growth in response to large doses (milligrams per kilogram) of beta(2)-adrenergic receptor agonists has been reported consistently. However, such doses may also induce myocyte death in the heart and skeletal muscles and hence may not be safe doses for humans. We report the hypertrophic and myotoxic effects of different doses of clenbuterol. Rats were infused with clenbuterol (range, 1 mug to 1 mg.kg(-1)) for 14 days. Muscle protein content, myofiber cross-sectional area, and myocyte death were then investigated. Infusions of >/=10 mug.kg(-1).d(-1) of clenbuterol significantly (P < 0.05) increased the protein content of the heart (12%-15%), soleus (12%), plantaris (18%-29%), and tibialis anterior (11%-22%) muscles, with concomitant myofiber hypertrophy. Larger doses (100 mug or 1 mg) induced significant (P < 0.05) myocyte death in the soleus (peak 0.2 +/- 0.1% apoptosis), diaphragm (peak 0.15 +/- 0.1% apoptosis), and plantaris (peak 0.3 +/- 0.05% necrosis), and significantly increased the area fraction of collagen in the myocardium. _These data show that the low dose of 10 mug.kg(-1).d(-1) can be used in rats to investigate the anabolic effects of clenbuterol in the absence of myocyte death. Muscle Nerve, 2006._
> ...


(100 mug or 1 mg) I did not know this unit (mug) but from this it seem like 1/100 of a mg or 10mcg.

So if in rats it was needed more than 10 mug/kg to see myocyte death, this this still means a dosage of 100mcg/kg.

This "means" that a standard bodybuilder of 90kg would have to take around 9000mcg (9 mg) to see myocyte death. This of course is just speculation since the studies were conducted in mice.

----------


## Merc..

> (100 mug or 1 mg) I did not know this unit (mug) but from this it seem like 1/100 of a mg or 10mcg.
> 
> So if in rats it was needed more than 10 mug/kg to see myocyte death, this this still means a dosage of 100mcg/kg.
> 
> This "means" that a standard bodybuilder of 90kg would have to take around 900mcg to see myocyte death. This of course is just speculation since the studies were conducted in mice.




........

----------


## solidA

not worth it
its not even dramatic results

----------


## hugovsilva

> ........



I corrected my post because the lowest dosage to cause myocyte death was not 900 mcg but 9000 mcg or 9 mg.

----------


## Merc..

I made a mistake on my math also ..  :LOL:

----------


## Merc..

> so if you were thinking about running 1000mcg of clen a day then dont!


There ya go PB ....  :AaGreen22:  indeed , indeed ...



Merc.

----------


## Schmidty

either way, that study is just showing how many mcg2c myocite death n a rat not a person. Rats have way more beta-2 receptors then we do

----------


## perfectbeast2001

hey merc what is that car in your avvy? i cant guess it and its bothering my OCD now!

----------


## Schmidty

> so if you were thinking about running 1000mcg of clen a day then dont!


DAMN! That was gona be n my next cycle :AaGreen22:

----------


## rager

You better believe it can be dangerous. My lifting partner died on it. I felt his hands one day in the gym and they were white and cold as ice. Obviously there was little blood flow to his extremities. For obvious reasons I am against it.

----------


## hugovsilva

From all this discussion I find still unclear if the dosages we usualy run will cause myocyte death or not. One thing is for sure, large dosages will kill heart cells, but anything taken in excess will harm you in one way or another.

I think Tai put it in the right way (in his very own style).

----------


## damiongage

I have personally taken 400mcg ed for 7 days straight....along with 250mcg T3 ed....and I am still here. I do not recomend doing it and the heart palips and anxiety issues were enough to make me not touch either again. I did this for 2 runs....2 weeks in length each time....first time no problems at all.....second time.....things got pretty bad.

----------


## Schmidty

> You better believe it can be dangerous. My lifting partner died on it. I felt his hands one day in the gym and they were white and cold as ice. Obviously there was little blood flow to his extremities. For obvious reasons I am against it.


 :Aabanhimlikeabitch:  I CALL BULL SHIT! :Liar:

----------


## damiongage

> You better believe it can be dangerous. My lifting partner *died on it.* I felt his hands one day in the gym and they were white and cold as ice. Obviously there was little blood flow to his extremities. For obvious reasons I am against it.


died *on* it...and died *from* it are two totally different things.....but yes it is dangerous

----------


## Merc..

> hey merc what is that car in your avvy? i cant guess it and its bothering my OCD now!


hehehhe .. lol .. It's a Porsche GT1 .....

----------


## rager

:1hifu: 


> I CALL BULL SHIT!


 :1hifu:

----------


## Amorphic

> You better believe it can be dangerous. My lifting partner died on it. I felt his hands one day in the gym and they were white and cold as ice. Obviously there was little blood flow to his extremities. For obvious reasons I am against it.


so he died in the middle of a clen cycle?

what was the medical cause of death?

i think you're making some assumptions here....waiting for more info.

----------


## Merc..

Play nice fellas.....

----------


## rager

The doctor didnt call me personally and tell me how he died. When someone is in perfect health and one day starts taking clen and the next thing they tell you their heart is pounding and they feel like sht and fall down dead in the gym. I think its fair to say it was the Clen.

----------


## Merc..

> hey merc what is that car in your avvy? i cant guess it and its bothering my OCD now!




Check this out PB... See the Porsche GT1 in action ..

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...22084294536757


Merc.

----------


## magic32

> The doctor didnt call me personally and tell me how he died. When someone is in *perfect health and one day starts taking clen* and the next thing they tell you their heart is pounding and they feel like sht and fall down dead in the gym. I think its fair to say it was the Clen.


So he wasn't on anything else?

And even if everything is exactly as you put it, we all know that Beta agonists can be fatal to those w/pre-existing heart conditions, known or unbeknownst to the user..._the only scenario in which such an incident could occur._

----------


## hugovsilva

Well put.

----------


## Merc..

> Well put.


agree

----------


## rager

No, Nothing else. No known preexisting heart condition and really no rec drug use. It was clen , period.

----------


## perfectbeast2001

> No, Nothing else. No known preexisting heart condition and really no rec drug use. It was clen, period.


yeah 100mcg of clen killed a perfectly healthy male. ridiculous claim.

----------


## Amorphic

> No, Nothing else. No known preexisting heart condition and really no rec drug use. It was clen, period.


i wont say that its impossible, but the odds of that are incredibly unlikely, almost to the point of nonbelief

----------


## IntenseAthlete

> i wont say that its impossible, but the odds of that are incredibly unlikely, almost to the point of nonbelief


100% agreed.Im with Amorphic on clen , the sides kicked my ass but I dont think that dose killed anyone.There must have been more that you did not know about your friend.May he rest in peace.

----------


## 100m champ

I would try say a low dose clen cycle 50mg

----------


## IntenseAthlete

> I would try say a low dose clen cycle 50mg


botha, as an athlete unless its the offseason dont.It is to me and every other athlete I know a performance killer!That I will say clen kills athletic performance!beware!It may be fine for BB's but athletes should stear clear.

----------


## taiboxa

> I would try say a low dose clen cycle 50mg


50mg would kill u dead

----------


## taiboxa

> botha, as an athlete unless its the offseason dont.It is to me and every other athlete I know a performance killer!That I will say clen kills athletic performance!beware!It may be fine for BB's but athletes should stear clear.


i have way better ''wind'' when i take really low doses of clen . say 20mcg before any activity. definetly not fat burning but it is the ideal medicinal means of the medication.

----------


## IntenseAthlete

> 50mg would kill u dead


rofl

----------


## lastrep1234

Ya I just posted some clen results at 7 weeks, 2on/2off, I never went over 100mcg's (ya chicken shit), but anyway no problem at all, slept like a baby, then again I weight 214 and have no blood presure problems, so to answer your question the level of danger depends on dosage and the individual taking the clen---I LOVE IT BRO ---works awesome. some claim its milder than ECA stack????

----------


## IntenseAthlete

> i have way better ''wind'' when i take really low doses of clen. say 20mcg before any activity. definetly not fat burning but it is the ideal medicinal means of the medication.


I dont disagree, the first couple of days seem good but somewhere after that there seems to be a turn for the worst in overall performance.This seems to continue for a while afterwards.Maybe its the effect on your cardiovascular system as this is much more important to athletes then bodybuilders.

----------


## taiboxa

> I dont disagree, the first couple of days seem good but somewhere after that there seems to be a turn for the worst in overall performance.This seems to continue for a while afterwards.Maybe its the effect on your cardiovascular system as this is much more important to athletes then bodybuilders.


long half life of clen causes it to stack on its self.

----------


## Maldorf

> died *on* it...and died *from* it are two totally different things.....but yes it is dangerous


THANK YOU! Point I wanted to make. Hell there are many guys out there that die while taking anabolic steroids , but it doesnt mean it was the AAS that killed them. If I die while taking aspirin, does it mean the aspirin killed me?

----------


## Maldorf

> The doctor didnt call me personally and tell me how he died. When someone is in perfect health and one day starts taking clen and the next thing they tell you their heart is pounding and they feel like sht and fall down dead in the gym. I think its fair to say it was the Clen.


Could have happend if he made a mistake and took a massive dose of it. Maybe he was using liquid and made a mistake measuring it out. Ive heard of guys doing that and taking a dose that is 10x-100x too big because they figured wrong on the syringe or whatever it was they were measuring with. WHy I wont touch the liquids.

----------


## BuffBuffalo

Wow! I didn't realize clen was such an extreme compound.

----------


## Gears

How bad is the sweating? Is it visible?

----------


## rager

Yes, it was liquid clen . He was going on a Cruise and wanted to shred up for it. When I saw him in the gym I was amazed how much he had slimmed down. He was a fairly bulky guy to start with. Thats intersting you brought that up. It was liquid clen and he very well may have taken too much. Before he told me about liquid clen, I had never even heard of it.

----------


## damiongage

> Yes, it was liquid clen. He was going on a Cruise and wanted to shred up for it. When I saw him in the gym I was amazed how much he had slimmed down. He was a fairly bulky guy to start with. Thats intersting you brought that up. It was liquid clen and he very well may have taken too much. Before he told me about liquid clen, I had never even heard of it.


wrong mesuurement is very possible.....some dose it low...(100mg/ml) and some dose it as high as 1000mg/ml....

----------


## gym_rat_jason

It ****ing gives me cramps ALL over my muscle groups and i meant ALL muscle groups even my damn lats WTH!!!

----------


## bogdan84uzy

i have a friend which have preperd for a photshoot and have a very short time-10days,and he has been taking 10 pills of clen /day.but the pills were of 40mcg,that mean-400mcg and he did't die lol.i have teach him to take also atenolol to protect it's heart and also it's insulin sensivity,which can go down very worse with clen at such doses

----------


## PT

> i have a friend which have preperd for a photshoot and have a very short time-10days,and he has been taking 10 pills of clen/day.but the pills were of 40mcg,that mean-400mcg and he did't die lol.i have teach him to take also atenolol to protect it's heart and also it's insulin sensivity,which can go down very worse with clen at such doses


i like you avater bro. you were a skinny little thing in that first pic but your really starting to look good now. thats a huge change.

----------


## bogdan84uzy

yeah!that's what i understand EVOLUTION :Wink:

----------


## damiongage

> i have a friend which have preperd for a photshoot and have a very short time-10days,and he has been taking 10 pills of clen/day.but the pills were of 40mcg,that mean-400mcg and he did't die lol.i have teach him to take also atenolol to protect it's heart and also it's insulin sensivity,which can go down very worse with clen at such doses


I Like I said I have taken 400mcg clen along with 250mcg T3 *(DO NOT DO THIS!!!)* and I am still here. I suppose it is possible to die from 100mcg clen...people do die from 1 line of cocaine....but I would think there had to be an underlying issue.

----------

