# STEROIDS FORUM > ANABOLIC STEROIDS - QUESTIONS & ANSWERS > EDUCATIONAL THREADS >  Bodybuilding Drugs (do you need them?)

## javerton

I will start this out by saying that I am sickened by the posts I see on many boards by 16-18 year old kids that have been training for sometimes only MONTHS that are asking about how to best go about using pro-hormones or steroids . Lets get something strait first. Unless you are at LEAST 21 you have no right even considering doing them. WHY? Well, if you need to ask that, you havent done your homework and you should be disqualified already.

Now that we are talking about 21+ year olds, lets make a few more distinctions.

1. How long have you been training?
1.1 How long have you been training CORRECTLY (for YOUR body) and dieting correctly.

Even if you have been training for 10 years and have been doing a bunch of stupid pro style training and eating like a little old lady, you havent really been training yet. I know, because I did the same thing for over 10 years and made about zero progress. I knew a bunch about bodybuilding, except how to train myself at a volume and frequency level I could recover from, and how to feed myself properly. But I could tell you EVERYTHING about all the pros and how they did itUSELESS!!!!

Now what about if you have been training for 2-5 years and have actually made great progress? What constitutes great progress? Ill go out on a limb here and give you some generic lift numbers that translate pretty good in the real world for average (if there is such a thing) trainees.

A bench of at LEAST 250-300 lbs for at least a few reps
Dipping with at LEAST 75+ strapped to your waist for 6-8 reps
Rows and/or pull-downs with at LEAST 200 for 6-8 reps
Military or dumbbell shoulder press with at LEAST 150-175 for 6-8 reps
Squatting/deadlifting at LEAST 350 for 6-8 reps

And yes, some people may be dismally low at 1 or 2 of the lifts due to bad leverages, abnormally low slow twitch fiber composition, etc. but if you cant hit at least 3 out of 5 of those numbers, or you are a very short/small statured trainee, you need to get your training and diet in order and pay some more dues. If these numbers seem light years away, or totally out of your reach you probably dont have the big factors of training and diet even remotely dialed. Simple as that! MOST trainees can and will hit, or come very close to these numbers while training clean. But..most are miles away

So..they decide to get involved with gear way before its time. Then before they are willing to even pay their dues about learning about proper gear/ph use, post cycle therapy , and all the ins and outs, they ask a few questions on the forums that are often responded to by another young inexperienced trainee and have their way with it.

AFTER I could squat and deadlift 400 for 10 reps and bench 300 for reps I decided I wanted to try gear. I then spent a year and a half studying EVERYTHING I could get my hands on before I tried a moderate short cycle of 8 weeks of test and deca . Granted Im pretty dense and most people would be able to come up with a well thought-out plan in less than the year and a half it took me. But the point is unless you are willing to learn everything you can from reliable sources you just should be dabbling.

Now, back to the original question of the topic. Do you REALLY need to use bodybuilding drugs? This answer will greatly vary depending on what you want your physique to look like. The chances are slim for the average guy, with average genetics to build even a mid-level competitive physique without them, but MOST guys are not really looking to be that big anyway. Most guys want a lean strong looking physique that will turn heads wherever they go, and want to be able to take their shirt off and be proud. And you dont need 19-inch arms to do that.

Now the sad part. I come across people all the time doing gram plus a week gear and PH cycles that dont even look like they train and cant bench 200 for 10 or squat 275 for 10. This is primarily because they are clueless about how to eat and train, and believe the gear will iron-out all these mistakesTHEY ARE WRONG! Unless you know how to grow clean, you are unlikely to be successful in the long term by simply throwing a bunch of gear at the problem.

This is bodybuilding turned upside down and inside out. If you cant make pretty fair gains training clean and invest some time to build your poundages up before jumping on the gear wagon, you need to reevaluate your training/diet, and you commitment to this sport, no matter what you reasons are for being involved with it.

Everyone who has read my posts knows I am not anti-PH/Steroid , but the horse must come before the cart.

Iron Addict

http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3391

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## Christoffer

Im 17 got 2,5 years under my belt 2 years of hard traing i can lift everything you just posted why cant i take it?

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## songdog

beacuse you cant  :Smilie:  :Chairshot:  :7up:  :Aajack:

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## Cotto333

Why carn't he, there research done all over the world that shows there is no side effects for teenagers using steroids . It doesnt close the growth plates and will only be dangerous if used in the incorrect way. A lot of people say don't your too young, and quite a few say they only take testosterone to put their levels back to normal (ie their teenage years) but why if the only put there testosterone to normal level of what have been the same ammount they would have had when they are teenagers, they are so much bigger?
I believe it is safe for people 18+ to use steroids as long as they do it safe.
I mean there are a few 20 years olds on this forum who take steroids and have regular health checks and don't have any problems, this is because they are using the drug correctly.
So use and don't abuse  :Wink:

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## Matt

> Why carn't he, there research done all over the world that shows there is no side effects for teenagers using steroids . It doesnt close the growth plates and will only be dangerous if used in the incorrect way. A lot of people say don't your too young, and quite a few say they only take testosterone to put their levels back to normal (ie their teenage years) but why if the only put there testosterone to normal level of what have been the same ammount they would have had when they are teenagers, they are so much bigger?
> I believe it is safe for people 18+ to use steroids as long as they do it safe.
> I mean there are a few 20 years olds on this forum who take steroids and have regular health checks and don't have any problems, this is because they are using the drug correctly.
> So use and don't abuse


Please show me this research...

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## MaNiCC

> Why carn't he, there research done all over the world that shows there is no side effects for teenagers using steroids . It doesnt close the growth plates and will only be dangerous if used in the incorrect way. A lot of people say don't your too young, and quite a few say they only take testosterone to put their levels back to normal (ie their teenage years) but why if the only put there testosterone to normal level of what have been the same ammount they would have had when they are teenagers, they are so much bigger?
> I believe it is safe for people 18+ to use steroids as long as they do it safe.
> I mean there are a few 20 years olds on this forum who take steroids and have regular health checks and don't have any problems, this is because they are using the drug correctly.
> So use and don't abuse


seriously are you for real? how about estrogen fusing growth plates?

There are also members here who will admit they started aas too young and suffered some consequences as a result.

Please Provide research to prove your CLAIMS

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## Cotto333

Yes they may suffer consequences but was that down to inexperience and lack of knowledge?

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## Matt

> Yes they may suffer consequences but was that down to inexperience and lack of knowledge?


I suggest you read more and post less, you havnt got a clue what your talking about...

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## wharton

> Im 17 got 2,5 years under my belt 2 years of hard traing i can lift everything you just posted why cant i take it?


You gotta be 18 to be a member of this board i believe  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Matt

> You gotta be 18 to be a member of this board i believe


He's been suspended bro...

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## wharton

> He's been suspended bro...


yea just looked at the dates, already posted oh well, Still got a chuckle off it  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## azz10

nice post there javerton. sadly, there has been numerous misconceptions by aspiring young ones that aas is gonna make them look like ronnie or arnie! they forgotten the amount of training, planning, discipline, diet and experience that comes with it. at the end of the day, they messed up their body's natural growth and burn a big hole in their wallet.. 

its realli funni seeing these kiddos trying to chat up with the biggest dudes in the gym in bid to get their hands on some magic brews!! haha. :P

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## andyt

> I will start this out by saying that I am sickened by the posts I see on many boards by 16-18 year old kids that have been training for sometimes only MONTHS that are asking about how to best go about using pro-hormones or steroids . Lets get something strait first. Unless you are at LEAST 21 you have no right even considering doing them. WHY? Well, if you need to ask that, you havent done your homework and you should be disqualified already.
> 
> Now that we are talking about 21+ year olds, lets make a few more distinctions.
> 
> 1. How long have you been training?
> 1.1 How long have you been training CORRECTLY (for YOUR body) and dieting correctly.
> 
> Even if you have been training for 10 years and have been doing a bunch of stupid pro style training and eating like a little old lady, you havent really been training yet. I know, because I did the same thing for over 10 years and made about zero progress. I knew a bunch about bodybuilding, except how to train myself at a volume and frequency level I could recover from, and how to feed myself properly. But I could tell you EVERYTHING about all the pros and how they did itUSELESS!!!!
> 
> ...


i love this thrtead an it makes real sense im 10 st 4 age 27 training 5 yrs on an off but aint been bou 6 mth so u can imagine ive lost most of it wen i train i train hard i got to 100k on the bench after 3mths but its all gone now could u advise on good sites the right food cause i asked a question an he said i shouldnt use them i think ppl think u jst get massive instant me incuded plz help

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## n00bs

> Why carn't he, there research done all over the world that shows there is no side effects for teenagers using steroids . It doesnt close the growth plates and will only be dangerous if used in the incorrect way. A lot of people say don't your too young, and quite a few say they only take testosterone to put their levels back to normal (ie their teenage years) but why if the only put there testosterone to normal level of what have been the same ammount they would have had when they are teenagers, they are so much bigger?
> I believe it is safe for people 18+ to use steroids as long as they do it safe.
> I mean there are a few 20 years olds on this forum who take steroids and have regular health checks and don't have any problems, this is because they are using the drug correctly.
> So use and don't abuse


The hole point of a steroid cycle is abuse of a bodily function?!? 

Use would be replacement of testosterone to normal levels not superindulgence in the substance...

Do you know much about the HPTA and how fragile it is during devleopment? 


THis broism thing of take steroids youll be fine is why we have so many dumb ****s who cant deadlift bodyweight yet think its cool to jab and do cable cross over..

The madness stops here.

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## Rizdizzle

Great post Jav

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## MR-FQ320

I'v been meaning to ask this question for a while now and think this might be an appropiate thread for it.

My question is, should steroids only be taken as a last resort to increase strength/definition after diet exercise considerable training etc ?

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