# FITNESS and NUTRITION FORUM > DIET AND NUTRITION >  **slfmade's 20 week lean bulk/cutting log**

## slfmade

Alright fella's - Here we go. This will be the start of my daily log over the next 20 weeks. This log will consist of an 8 week High Intensity Lean Bulk Program followed by a 12 week cutting phase. 

*Current Stats:*
29yrs old
179.5 lbs
~15% B

TDEE - 2583

Suprailiac Caliper Measurement - 9 (Will be using this measurement to track bodyfat %)
Neck - 12 3/4
Chest - 41
Biceps - 15
Waist - 33
Mid Leg - 22.5
Upper Leg - 24
Calf - 15

*Lean Bulk Phase:* 8 weeks - Goals are to gain 10-15 lbs of LBM with no increase in BF%. I will be following my BF% closely to make sure I'm not adding bodyfat and if I start to see an increase we'll need to make adjustments to the diet. I might add that I know 10-15 lbs is ambitious; however, I haven't been working out for a while so I expect to get some "newbie gains". I might add that there will be NO aas use!!!

*Cutting Phase:* 12 weeks - Goal will be to drop from 15% Bodyfat to 10% Bodyfat without much if any loss of LBM. Diet will be determined at a later period. I'll more than likely either run a CKD or "IF" style diet. During this time I will be running a T3/Clen /Keto cycle straight through the 12 weeks.

For now we'll focus on the present: I started this today. Below I'll list my current diet and workout program. Please feel free to offer your advice.

Diet: 1/9/12 - All split as shown as Cal/Fat/Carbs/Protein

*Lift Days -* 

*9:00 a.m.*
2 oz 96/4 Ground Beef (Drained Twice)
4 Egg Whites
Veggies
3/4 Cup of Oats

429/6.75/51.5/43.5

*12:00 a.m.*
Protein Shake (Blended with Whey, Casein, 3/4 cup oats/1tbs Peanut Butter)

444/13/53.5/36.5

*2:00 p.m.*
Tuna Salad on Whole Grain Bread
1 Chocolate no bake cookie (my own recipe - Protein Powder, Peanut Butter, and Oats)

442.5/8.35/54.5/43

*4:00 p.m.*
Twice Loaded Baked Potato - 96/4 Beef, Potatos, Brocolli
2 - Chocolate No Bake Cookies

530/12.5/52/52

*6:00 p.m.*
SlimmerMe's Pancakes

430/4.6/63/41

*7:00 - 8:00 workout*

*8:00 p.m.*
Protein Shake 1/2 whey 1/2 Casein

225/1.5/3/49

*10:00 p.m.*
6 oz Hamburger Patty

280/6.75/0/36

*Total = 2781 cals/53.45 Fat/277.5 Carbs/301 Protein Split = 17/40/43*

Non - Lift Days

Close to the same thing, but I dropped serving sizes and cut a few carbs.

*Totals for non-lift days = 2324/38/215/287 Split = 14/36/50*

Workout Routine: Mon/Wed/Fri - Full Body Supersets 3 days per week. Cardio is done Fasted Tues/Thurs/Sat at 60 min Low/Med Intensity. Sunday is Rest Day


Squats 15-20 Rest 90 sec - 3 Sets
Straight Legged Deadlift 15-20 Supersetted with Calf Raises in/out/straight 7/7/7 - 3 Sets

Pull-up (Until Failure) Supersetted w/Flat Bench 12-15 reps - 3 Sets
Bent Over Rows 12-15 Supersetted w/Incline Bench 12-15 - 3 Sets

Military Press 12-15 Supersetted with Ab Curls (Until Failure) - 3 Sets
Upright Rows 20-25 Supersetted with Leg Raises (Until Failure) - 3 Sets

Skull Crushers 12-15 Supersetted with Standing BB Biceps Curls 12-15 - 3 Sets

This log will serve as a motivational tool for me. Unless I'm deathly sick I WILL NOT miss a day or cheat on my meals. I'll be posting daily and look forward to any advice you vets have to give. So let's get started let's get this thing tweaked because I'm already one day into it.

Thanks

Here's my most current pic. I'll update with new pics every few weeks.

9199bb38c660696d595d_4 by slfmade, on Flickr

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## slfmade

Oh...and Sgt. Hartman. I've now trimmed by "buckwheat" pits (as you called them) just for you. hehehehehehehe

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## slfmade

Diet and Workout Update 1/9/11 -

Diet went well. Hit all meals. I know I should be trying to get in more real food and less protein powders, but for now this is the only way I can get down all the calories. As the weeks go by I'll start introducing more whole meals as my stomach gets used to the higher calories.

As far as the workout - TBODY!!!!!!!....Browngirl and I have a love/hate relationship with you right now. Browngirl almost threw up and she actually DID cry on the last superset. I've never wanted to quit a workout early like I did tonight; and tonight it went threw my mind 8 or 9 times. IT SUCKED BAD!!! BUT....WE FINISHED and did it right. I don't think I've ever been that exhausted. Call me a baby if you like, but that is one tough workout. The scary thing is continuing to do this the right way...it'll never get better - pushing til failure means constantly upping the weight so this is gonna suck as bad in 7 weeks as it did tonight. That being said - 1 workout down - 23 more to go!!!!!!!

What's great about these logs and this forum is what kept me going tonight. Accountability - I didn't want to have to get on here and say that I failed. This forum actually pushed me to complete something that I wasn't sure I was going to be able to finish. I love this place....

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## auslifta

I don't like the look of that routine to be honest, and 15lbs in 8 weeks naturally is a little ambitious. I wish you all the best and will be following with interest. 15% to 10% in 12 weeks is very achievable. Not keen on all those no bake cookies, and lack of veggies, particularly green ones. You should see some results being a beginner as you said, but you will need to change up later on, this will be hard to shock your body when it's already doing high workouts. Goodluck.

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## Back In Black

A very ambitious first 8 weeks. No carbs post workout on a bulk?

I'll be watching though, good luck!

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## tbody66

Glad to hear about the workouts. Nice starting point from the pic, I do like the workout routine, to be honest, but hey, why wouldn't I.... I wrote it for you!

It will accomplish what you want it to accomplish in the first 8 weeks, You might have to up the calories on this program, so moniter your progress very closely. You are determined and aggressive and have the support of your woman and all of us here on the boards, those are a whole lot of things that a whole lot of people don't have when they attempt something like you are. You have more chance to succeed than most.

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## slfmade

> I don't like the look of that routine to be honest, and 15lbs in 8 weeks naturally is a little ambitious. I wish you all the best and will be following with interest. 15% to 10% in 12 weeks is very achievable. Not keen on all those no bake cookies, and lack of veggies, particularly green ones. You should see some results being a beginner as you said, but you will need to change up later on, this will be hard to shock your body when it's already doing high workouts. Goodluck.


Tbody took the time to put the routine together for me. I did the routine last night and I can't imagine I won't see good results. I know 10-15lbs of lean body mass with aas is ambitious, but as I said I'm a very goal oriented person so I like to have goals I can work towards. If I don't hit the 10lb gain mark...I'll get over it. The main goal is to be at least 10% bodyfat within 20 weeks without looking like a stick.

What do you have against the no bake cookies??? 128 calories, 1.25g of fat, 14g Carbs, 15g Protein. I eat three of these on Lift days. It consist of old fashioned oats (a great carbs source), whey, and a touch of natty peanut butter. What's wrong with this?

Also, there's a lot of Green Veggies in meal 1,3,4.

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## slfmade

> A very ambitious first 8 weeks. *No carbs post workout on a bulk?*I'll be watching though, good luck!


At first I had some carbs in the post workout, but I pulled them out. This meal would come 2 hours before bed. It's important that I not gain any bodyfat and I've always heard to steer clear from carbs before bed. I know we've always been told that you have that "1 hour window", but I don't think I buy into this. If you can show me some recent studies that proves this wrong and can show me how it would be beneficial then I would have no problem taking in some carbs. It would actually be the easiest meal to up my calories.

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## slfmade

> Glad to hear about the workouts. Nice starting point from the pic, I do like the workout routine, to be honest, but hey, why wouldn't I.... I wrote it for you!
> 
> It will accomplish what you want it to accomplish in the first 8 weeks, *You might have to up the calories on this program*, so moniter your progress very closely. You are determined and aggressive and have the support of your woman and all of us here on the boards, those are a whole lot of things that a whole lot of people don't have when they attempt something like you are. You have more chance to succeed than most.


I know I should try to get in more calories; However, right now this is all my stomach wants to hold. As I mentioned in the above post. The only place I can add calories without feeling like I'm going to explode would be post workout, however, this would be carbs and I'm a little scared to take in carbs this close to bedtime. What do you think about this? Hopefully GBrice will get off his lazy ass and give me some help....LOL

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## bikeral

Whats up slfmade.
Just checking in on your progress.
Good luck

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## Back In Black

> At first I had some carbs in the post workout, but I pulled them out. This meal would come 2 hours before bed. It's important that I not gain any bodyfat and I've always heard to steer clear from carbs before bed. I know we've always been told that you have that "1 hour window", but I don't think I buy into this. If you can show me some recent studies that proves this wrong and can show me how it would be beneficial then I would have no problem taking in some carbs. It would actually be the easiest meal to up my calories.


I don't subscribe to the 1 hour window either. But carbs do help with recovery and you won't be having any carbs til meal 1 the next day. So any window is actually a huge door. When I train on an evening I ALWAYS take in 40g carbs (oats) post workout. I don't think they are going to hinder your goals re:bf particularly knowing how hard tbody will be making you work. I drop carbs from one of me earlier meals to acount for the PWO carbs. Note, I do this even when cutting and I have my final meal of the day an hour later.

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## tbody66

I'm not saying you need to up the calories, I'm just saying to be keeping a very close eye on all of the progress, or lack thereof. If you had to add some you could do a pre-workout no-carb protein drink with the pancakes and add some cottage cheese to your hamburger patty meal. Only saying if you find a need to do so. My theory is to maximize the muscle gain from the radical workout program while on the bulk phase, if you have an extra 2 to 5 lbs of muscle when you switch to leaning out you have more tools available to burn more fat.

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## Sgt. Hartman

> Oh...and Sgt. Hartman. I've now trimmed by "buckwheat" pits (as you called them) just for you. hehehehehehehe


LMAO! You know I only said that because of this http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...s#.TwzBMJhuHHg

Re: carbs PWO. Eat them for sure. I'm not one to believe in the magic anabolic window either but I definitely wouldn't wait until over 12 hours to consume them. Carbs before bed will not make you fat. As long as they fit the macros that you need for muscle growth that day, taking your carbs PWO before bed would be no different than taking them PWO after a morning session. They will serve the same purpose PWO whether you're asleep or not. An excess of calories at any time is what makes us gain body fat, not the timing of the calories consumed. 

Here's what Alan Aragon says about it:

_Along with the meal frequency myth often is packaged the meal timing myth. That is, the mistaken belief that eating a meal later in the evening has a somehow more deleterious effect on weight loss/maintenance than if it were eaten earlier in the day. The problem is that there is absolutely no scientific evidence or empirical proof to support this idea. The reasoning behind this claim is that the meal eaten later in the day will be stored as fat more easily because we are less active while sleeping and therefore cannot use the calories eaten in the meal as we would if it were eaten earlier in the day. However, if we are still eating within our daily energy requirements and getting the proper proportions of macronutrients, the timing of the meal bears no effect on how easily it will be stored as fat.

Of course, that is a big IF- because the problems that often occur with late night eating stem from the fact that many people are ADDING to their total daily caloric intake when eating at this time and usually eating high sugar/bad fat junk foods and binge foods. If they ate these foods earlier in the day theyd have the same effect- its just that many folks are less likely to do so in the morning or mid-day. So its really the fact that lots of late night eating is putting people in excess of their caloric requirements and is filled with non-nutritious junk foods, especially when alcohol is involved. I find that if my clients are being sure to eat enough satiating, nutritious foods each day, they are much less likely to binge or overeat late at night. People who attempt unrealistic diets that deprive them of satiety and appropriate calorie levels are much more likely to breakdown and binge out on junk before bed because they are ravenous.

But, in people whose eating is dialed in and calories are within daily needs, eating healthy meals/snacks later in the evening is perfectly fine if it fits with their schedules and preferences- assuming it doesnt interfere with their sleep or cause indigestion. In a new metabolic-rehab client who is recovering from overeating on the SAD diet, I will restrict late-night eating for a month or two just to remove the possibility of the binge factor- but this is more psychological than biological. Note that this myth extends to the idea that eating carbs at night is worse than earlier in the day- simply not true. As respected nutrition expert Alan Aragon says, There are no night-time insulin fairies ready & waiting to store carbs in the fat tissue  at least not at any greater rate than they would do so during the day.
_

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## slfmade

Good Read SGT...So is there any suggested minimum amount of carbs you should take PWO. Can I get away with a 1/2 cup oats (27g)?

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## slfmade

Update: Did my 60 min LIC Cardio this morning. 

I'm kinda Dreading my workout tomorrow, but at the same time looking forward to the results I get.

Just finished making my food for the next few days - Adding Oats for PWO Meal.

Thanks go out to everyone that's commented so far!

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## SlimmerMe

Best of luck to you!

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## slfmade

Thanks Slimmer - By the way - I liked the pancakes. I didn't care to much for the nutmeg, so I took it out and they taste great.

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## SlimmerMe

^^ sounds good to me. Sometimes I drink mine!

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## tbody66

I did that program myself for 8 weeks straight 3 times a week without fail. A few things sucked about my particular situation, a terrible gym set-up, it was just a Universal Machine, no free weights, bench press, leg press, military press, pull up handles and dip bars. I worked out alone every single night, no one else wanted to workout with me  :Frown:  , I actually vomited during three seperate workouts then had to come back and finish the rest of the routine. What didn't suck, was having to have different clothes sent to me four weeks into my program and more again 4 weeks later because I grew that much!

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## slfmade

> I did that program myself for 8 weeks straight 3 times a week without fail. A few things sucked about my particular situation, a terrible gym set-up, it was just a Universal Machine, no free weights, bench press, leg press, military press, pull up handles and dip bars. I worked out alone every single night, no one else wanted to workout with me  , I actually vomited during three seperate workouts then had to come back and finish the rest of the routine. What didn't suck, was having to have different clothes sent to me four weeks into my program and more again 4 weeks later because I grew that much!


Sounds good to me. Even though it's gonna suck I'm sticking with it to the end.

Quick Question about cheat meals on both lean bulk and cutting. I have no desire to even take a cheat day, but I've heard from several people that it's important to take one every once in a while to kinda trick your body. What's the deal with this? If I can avoid a cheat meal....should I? If not, can somebody please explain why? If I should then how often? 1 meal every week? 2 weeks? Thanks

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## joebailey1271

Cheat meals are a morality boost, also helps keep your metabolism from dropping to low. If you eat the same calories everyday your body adjust to it and you will stop burning fat. It keeps the furnace burning, some people do a cheat every 4 to 7 days, for example my brother eats usually about 3000 calories a day, and every 4th day he bumps it to 5000 so that when he goes back to the 3000 hes burning fat. He will usually do this until he gets to a certain bodyfat, then he will gradually increase the amt. of time between cheat meals.

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## tbody66

I personally like a cheat meal, on your current workout schedule you would want to do it, IMO, the last meal the night of your second non-lifting day, or breakfast the next morning, so if you were lifting m/w/f off sat and sunday you would eat a huge carb meal sunday night or monday morning. Whenever I do this I feel and look much fuller and not flat, like I can get from constant dieting.

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## slfmade

Will do...Sounds like it's Sushi Sunday's for me!!!

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## tbody66

> Will do...Sounds like it's Sushi Sunday's for me!!!


No Fair, sushi's my favorite!

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## slfmade

Mine too, but I normally avoid it because I always thought the white rice they use was bad for diets, but if it's a cheat meal......

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## Back In Black

Sushi rice is white but low GI. Cheat MEAL every 7-10 days will do you no real harm, just make sure it's controlled.

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## FONZY007

Good luck slfmade, watching your progress!!

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## Papiriqui

> Good Read SGT...So is there any suggested minimum amount of carbs you should take PWO. Can I get away with a 1/2 cup oats (27g)?


I would up that to 1 full cup of oats!!

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## tbody66

I think sushi is a food you could eat every meal, if it didn't have cream cheese anyway

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## Papiriqui

> I think sushi is a food you could eat every meal, if it didn't have cream cheese anyway


Okay now i know what i can eat for every meal, tuna roll baby!!! lol j/k

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## Sgt. Hartman

Make it 1 cup of oats for PWO. 

Don't feel like you HAVE to have a cheat meal every week. I agree that as long as you keep it reasonable it shouldn't do much harm, but there is no benefit to it. Think about it, youre already eating at a caloric surplus that is hopefully maxing out the amount of muscle you can gain per day or per week or whatever, so where will the additional calories of the cheat meal end up going? All the stuff you hear about having a cheat meal every X amount of days is beneficial b/c it keeps your body guessing, or it stimulates the thyroid, or it increases or maintains metabolism is a bunch of BS. If you want a cheat meal then knock it out bro, but it's not necessary in any way.

On your work out days you're already at almost 300 grams of carbs so it's not like you're gonna be flat or need a refeed day. If your main goal is to not gain fat and eventually get to 10% then I would only have the cheat meal when absolutely necessary. To me this is what's so hard about a true lean bulk, you really have to be just as strict if not more strict than when cutting. If you screw up and have a monster cheat meal while cutting and in a caloric deficit then you don't lose weight that week - big deal. But if you have that same monster cheat meal in a lean bulk when you're already at a caloric surplus then you just added unwanted BF.

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## bowldawg

That workout looks really intriguing. I'll be following your progress as I have some similiar goals. What heart rate are you shooting for during your fasted cardio?

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## slfmade

I try to stay 125-130 bpm.

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## SlimmerMe

so what is your final take on this thread re: post 19 especially 
as now I am REALLY confused

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...23#post5859723

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## tbody66

It was awesome to see FG saying cardio wasn't necessary, just preferred by him personally, thanks for that link, Slim!

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## gbrice75

Slm... will you be updating periodically with pics to measure progress?

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## RaginCajun

sfmade, i am running that same workout, with limitations (have shoulder/rotator cuff injury), so i know how your feeling.

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## slfmade

> so what is your final take on this thread re: post 19 especially 
> as now I am REALLY confused
> 
> http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...23#post5859723


Are you asking if I think cardio is necessary, or which method I prefer? I don't think cardio is necessary in "theory" based off of the example FG said; however, in a practical sense I think MOST everyone needs to be doing it. There's always gonna be people that can get away with things the rest of us can't. Also, it's a great habit to get into. This is a lifestyle, if you compromise cardio then what's next...diet? I absolutely believe that Diet, exercise, ard cardio are essential to most people looking to drop bodyfat. It's a package deal, if you can't be committed enough to do cardio, it just seems like a matter of time before something else falls out. I think people looking for a reason to get out of cardio will soon look for a reason to get out of their diet.

As far as LIC vs HIIT. What works for some might not work for others and vice versa. I think you should either do both, or experiment with both, to see which works better for you. I don't mind cardio....whether is 60 boring minutes on LIC (which gives me time to think or watch some TV), or 20 minutes of excrutiating HIIT (Which gives me more time to be doing something else), it's all the same to me.

Before starting Tbody's workout I was a fan of 3 days 60min fasted LIC and 2 days 20 min HIIT post workout. I would alternate these of course. However, the routine Tbody put together for me, is like doing 45 HIIT so I don't do HIIT for now. I also wouldn't want to do it on my off days because my legs need recovery from the night before.

Once I start the cutting portion of this Diet my week will probably look something like this for cardio.
Monday-Workout - Legs - No cardio
Tues- Fasted LIC 60min
Wed - Workout followed by 20min HIIT
Thursday - Fasted LIC 60min
Friday - Workout followed by 20min HIIT
Saturday - Fasted LIC 60min
Sunday - Rest

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## slfmade

> Slm... will you be updating periodically with pics to measure progress?


LOL - Thats all I get from the "Diet God"??? Just playin. I'll be doing weekly weigh-ins and bi-weekly photo's/measurements.

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## slfmade

> sfmade, i am running that same workout, with limitations (have shoulder/rotator cuff injury), so i know how your feeling.


RC - I've been meaning to tell you for two months your avi freaks me out when I see it. The way your shirt hovers over the countertop makes you look like your lower half has been amputated and your upper half is just posing on the countertop.

Anyway, my shoulders been kinda acting up on me a bit lately too, but nothing that prevents me from doing the workout. Shoulder press is fine, it's the flat bench that been irrating me a bit. Hopefully it gets better. How long have you been doing the program? How have your results been so far?

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## gbrice75

> LOL - Thats all I get from the "Diet God"??? Just playin. I'll be doing weekly weigh-ins and bi-weekly photo's/measurements.


Lmao!!! I figured you were in good hands, didn't want to step on toes.  :Wink: 

I'll refer to your PM.

~GB

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## tbody66

amputated cajun??? GB not wanting to "step on toes", some strange goings on for sure!

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## slfmade

> amputated cajun??? GB not wanting to "step on toes", some strange goings on for sure!


The Tribulation?????.....j/k Kirk Cameron is still here.

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## SlimmerMe

> Are you asking if I think cardio is necessary, or which method I prefer? I don't think cardio is necessary in "theory" based off of the example FG said; however, in a practical sense I think MOST everyone needs to be doing it. There's always gonna be people that can get away with things the rest of us can't. Also, it's a great habit to get into. This is a lifestyle, if you compromise cardio then what's next...diet? I absolutely believe that Diet, exercise, ard cardio are essential to most people looking to drop bodyfat. It's a package deal, if you can't be committed enough to do cardio, it just seems like a matter of time before something else falls out. I think people looking for a reason to get out of cardio will soon look for a reason to get out of their diet.
> 
> As far as LIC vs HIIT. What works for some might not work for others and vice versa. I think you should either do both, or experiment with both, to see which works better for you. *I don't mind cardio..*..whether is 60 boring minutes on LIC (which gives me time to think or watch some TV), or 20 minutes of excrutiating HIIT (Which gives me more time to be doing something else), it's all the same to me.
> 
> Before starting Tbody's workout I was a fan of 3 days 60min fasted LIC and 2 days 20 min HIIT post workout. I would alternate these of course. However, the routine Tbody put together for me, is like doing 45 HIIT so I don't do HIIT for now. I also wouldn't want to do it on my off days because my legs need recovery from the night before.
> 
> Once I start the cutting portion of this Diet my week will probably look something like this for cardio.
> Monday-Workout - Legs - No cardio
> Tues- Fasted LIC 60min
> ...


Thanks for your explanation. 
I too like cardio thank goodness. I was just shocked (if I intrepreted it correctly) to read that Fireguy no longer prescribes to fasted and found that HITT 3x's a week was better for him so I wanted your take since you were familiar with the thread.

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## slfmade

> Thanks for your explanation. 
> I too like cardio thank goodness. I was just shocked (if I intrepreted it correctly) to read that Fireguy no longer prescribes to fasted and found that HITT 3x's a week was better for him so I wanted your take since you were familiar with the thread.


Yep...that's what he was saying. Many people think HIIT is better, while some people like fasted a.m. cardio better. I could care less and I really don't want to take the time right now to figure out which one is best for me....so I do both. After these 20 weeks are up I think I'm gonna put together a log of the two and compare the differences. Should be interesting.

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## tbody66

I made a video today of me squatting and posted it on youtube, go to my thread and check out the link. It's soooooooooooo cool.

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## slfmade

So 2 workout days down.....22 to go! Tonight the workout was much easier in the sense I didn't want to quit or throw up. I attribute this to either...

1. Took 2 caffiene pills prior to workout
2. I really focused on my breathing today - I didn't feel near as winded
3. Took 30-60 sec breaks in between Bodyparts. For instance we did all legs - walked to the water fountain and got a drink. Then Chest/Shoulders - walked to the water fountain and got a drink, and so on. Is this okay Tbody? Last time we did this is was like one huge superset. We still did supersets for each body part without breaks.

Surprisingly, even though I felt less winded today...I felt a stronger pump. I'm still a little shaky and my arms feel very swollen.

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## slfmade

I added the 1 cup oats today. Post workout w/ some skim milk. I really like eating my oats like a cereal. Does anyone else do this? I do 1 cup oats 3/4 cup skim milk with sugar free honey. It's pretty damn good. I know there's like 5g of sugar in the skim milk, but it's post workout so I assume that's okay if it fits in my daily allowance.

What do you guys think?

On a side note...about 3 weeks ago I bought some ON Casein Powder Banana Creme flavor. Do yourself a favor and NEVER buy this. It's very nasty. This is my first experience with casein powders so maybe all of them are bad, but if not...Banana Creme sucks. Just a heads up.

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## Back In Black

> I added the 1 cup oats today. Post workout w/ some skim milk. I really like eating my oats like a cereal. Does anyone else do this? I do 1 cup oats 3/4 cup skim milk with sugar free honey. It's pretty damn good. I know there's like 5g of sugar in the skim milk, but it's post workout so I assume that's okay if it fits in my daily allowance.
> 
> What do you guys think?
> 
> On a side note...about 3 weeks ago I bought some ON Casein Powder Banana Creme flavor. Do yourself a favor and NEVER buy this. It's very nasty. This is my first experience with casein powders so maybe all of them are bad, but if not...Banana Creme sucks. Just a heads up.


Plenty of folk will say no to milk because of the sugar but I mix 100ml with my PWO shake of oats and protein blend. I even do this when cutting. 

Good news you are doing fasted and HIIT cardio, a mix of both works best for me but you'll only truly know what works best for you if you do one type for a period then switch to another for a few weeks and compare results.

Yeah, ON's banana is not good though I am a big fan of their chocolate flavour.

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## Sgt. Hartman

Have you guys seen this regarding milk for PWO?

_"There is growing amounts of evidence, both acute and long-term, to support the use of low-fat milk as a post-resistance exercise beverage. Consumption of low-fat milk appears to create an anabolic environment following resistance exercise and over the long term with training, it appears that greater gains in lean mass and muscle hypertrophy can be obtained [15]. Furthermore, milk may also lead to greater losses of body fat when it is consumed following resistance training [15]."_

Here's the complete study http://www.jissn.com/content/5/1/15

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## tbody66

I have always been a milk fan, and it's very hard for too much bad to be said about skim milk. Yeah, the workout isn't designed to be a cardio session, it is designed to be able to be performed in anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes so people don't have to block out two hours of their day to get a workout in. And since this is only done three days a week the advertising pitch is that in less than three hours a week you can make a major difference in your appearance! You could rest between every set if you wanted to. I really think not resting between sets is the way to go, when I was doing this I would finish my supersets, and start right back over, since there are two of you, you are getting crazy amounts of rest if you are taking turns, comparatively speaking.

----------


## RaginCajun

> Have you guys seen this regarding milk for PWO?
> 
> _"There is growing amounts of evidence, both acute and long-term, to support the use of low-fat milk as a post-resistance exercise beverage. Consumption of low-fat milk appears to create an anabolic environment following resistance exercise and over the long term with training, it appears that greater gains in lean mass and muscle hypertrophy can be obtained [15]. Furthermore, milk may also lead to greater losses of body fat when it is consumed following resistance training [15]."_
> 
> Here's the complete study http://www.jissn.com/content/5/1/15



when i competed in a triathlon last summer, i saw all the top dogs drinking chocolate milk.

----------


## slfmade

> I have always been a milk fan, and it's very hard for too much bad to be said about skim milk. Yeah, the workout isn't designed to be a cardio session, it is designed to be able to be performed in anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes so people don't have to block out two hours of their day to get a workout in. And since this is only done three days a week the advertising pitch is that in less than three hours a week you can make a major difference in your appearance! You could rest between every set if you wanted to. I really think not resting between sets is the way to go, when I was doing this I would finish my supersets, and start right back over, *since there are two of you, you are getting crazy amounts of rest if you are taking turns, comparatively speaking*.


Not so much. Browngirl starts 1 set a head of me. For instance she'll do her Pull-ups and superset with flat bench while I'm doing pull ups and we'll switch...this way there is never any rest between supersets, only when we finish a muscle group we'll take the 30-60sec breather.

----------


## gbrice75

I love milk, but sadly have a tough time digesting it if I have too much. Otherwise I could easily drink a gallon/day. Milk is fine as long as you're able to tolerate the lactose.

----------


## slfmade

Just finished my 60 min LIC Cardio. A bit boring as always, but at least I got caught up with current events on CNN.

----------


## Papiriqui

> Just finished my 60 min LIC Cardio. A bit boring as always, but at least I got caught up with current events on CNN.


Nice, good job!!

----------


## tbody66

> Not so much. Browngirl starts 1 set a head of me. For instance she'll do her Pull-ups and superset with flat bench while I'm doing pull ups and we'll switch...this way there is never any rest between supersets, only when we finish a muscle group we'll take the 30-60sec breather.


Good to hear!

----------


## slfmade

3 Workouts Down - 21 to Go.

Tonight was tough. A few hours before we left for the gym I started to get some horrible cramps. I was hurting pretty bad, but the last thing I wanted to do was get on here and have to tell all you guys/girls that I wimped out. So...I put my big boy pants on and went anyway. Surprisingly I had a good workout. The cramps didn't go away...I'm still hurting now, but the workout kinda took my mind off of it.

Tomorrow morning I've got 60min fasted cardio, and then Sunday will be weigh-in day!!!!!

----------


## tbody66

Sorry to hear about the cramps, do those come every month???

----------


## slfmade

> Sorry to hear about the cramps, do those come every month???


LOL - Yep...Everytime BrownGirl gets hers I start to get mine....and headaches too. LOL Just kidding.

Seriously though...I think my body just isn't used to digesting this much food or something. I mean, I went from 2000 calories to almost 3000 this week so I could see how it could be a bit pissed at me about now.

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## tbody66

> LOL - Yep...Everytime BrownGirl gets hers I start to get mine....and headaches too. LOL Just kidding.
> 
> Seriously though...I think my body just isn't used to digesting this much food or something. I mean, I went from 2000 calories to almost 3000 this week so I could see how it could be a bit pissed at me about now.


When I was doing this workout I started weighing 135lbs and was eating at least 6000 calories a day. And, in case you didn't know, weight training is actually beneficial for helping alleviate the symptoms and severity of menstral cramps.

----------


## slfmade

> When I was doing this workout I started weighing 135lbs and was eating at least 6000 calories a day. *And, in case you didn't know, weight training is actually beneficial for helping alleviate the symptoms and severity of menstral cramps.*


You do realize that I am a guy right????? lol

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## tbody66

There is no sense in me not taking an opportunity to present you with accurate information. It was a learning opportunity so I informed. I'll bet that was something you didn't know before, so it already is a day worth living because you learned something new. It may come in handy as well, since you live with someone who might want to use having them as a reason to skip a workout, now you can let her know that it would be a mistake to do so.

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## slfmade

Did 60min fasted cardio this morning which concluded week 1. Tomorrow is a rest day....NO LIFTING NO CARDIO. I gave the cheat meal some thought and decided once every two weeks should be suffice.

Tomorrow morning will be the 1st weigh in...so we'll see how that goes and I'll post the results along with next weeks diet plan.

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## tbody66

> Did 60min fasted cardio this morning which concluded week 1. Tomorrow is a rest day....NO LIFTING NO CARDIO. I gave the cheat meal some thought and decided once every two weeks should be suffice.
> 
> Tomorrow morning will be the 1st weigh in...so we'll see how that goes and I'll post the results along with next weeks diet plan.


I am on pins and needles!

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## slfmade

Okay 1 week update:

Weighed in today - 183lbs - What??? Up 3.5lbs in 1 week????

This scared me a bit...thinking it surely can't be all muscle. So I pulled out my BF calipers (even though I told myself that was an every 2 week measurement) and NO INCREASE IN BF!!!! Not even a little.

I still don't think this is all muscle...maybe a little water retention so I'm going to weigh agian over the next 2 days and take a 3 day average. However, I feel like I'm looking bigger. Could just be my imagination though. I'll let you guys be the judge next week when I post progress pics.

I'll be changing up my diet - ~same macros, but different meals for the week. SO GBRICE, I've you're looking at this, come back later tonight and tell me if I'm good to go. Everyone else that follows the log...I need your input as well so thanx in advance.

----------


## slfmade

This weeks Diet: I've bumped up calories on lift days and reduced them a little for non-lift. Give me your input.

*Lift Day - Calories 2956/ Fat 53g/ Carbs 320g/ Pro 302 Macro Split (f/c/p) = 16/43/41

Non Lift Day - Calories 2035/ Fat 41g/ Carbs 191g/ Pro 222 Macro Split (f/c/p) = 18/38/44*

Lift Day Meals

*Meal 1*
2 oz Ground Beef
Veggies
4 egg whites
3/4 Cup Oats
3/4 Cup Skim Milk
Cals = 494 f/c/p = 7/60/50

*Meal 2*
Isopure Protein Shake
1 tbs peanut Butter
1/2 cup oats
1/2 cup skim Milk
Cals = 412 f/c/p = 11.5/46/38

*Meal 3*
Tuna and Eggs
Veggies
1 No bake cookie (mix of oats/protein powder/peanut butter)
Cals = 304 f/c/p = 5.25/24.5/42

*Meal 4*
Meat Balls
1/2 cup brown rice
No bake cookie
Cals = 519 f/c/p = 13.25/56.5/40.5

*Meal 5 (Pre-workout Meal)*
SlimmerMe's Pancakes
Cals = 430 f/c/p = 4.6/63/41

Workout-1 Hour

*Meal 6 (Post-Workout Meal)*
1 Scoop Casien
1 Scoop Whey
1 Cup Oats
1 Cup Skim Milk
Cals = 611 f/c/p = 7.5/69/67

*Meal 7*
4 Oz 96/4 Hamburger Patty
Cals = 186 f/c/p = 4.5/0/24 

Non-Lift Days are pretty much the same meals but smaller portions with a few things pulled out. I've listed my total macros for both days above.

Let me know what you guys think. Any suggestions?

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## tbody66

I like the food choices fine, I'm not in agreement about your non-lifting days the cals being dropped so low, especially since you are doing cardio those days and you are on a bulk.

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## gbrice75

Decent... not a big fan of all the skim milk, but if it works for u, so be it. 

I think dropping calories on non-workout days is fine, however I'd keep the protein high - no need to change it at all imo, it's the only macro I don't manipulate. I'd reduce carbs further to keep calories lower, OR bump protein just a bit but have less of a caloric deficit - i.e. leave the carbs in the 190g range.

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## RaginCajun

looking good!

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## slfmade

> *I love milk, but sadly have a tough time digesting it if I have too much. Otherwise I could easily drink a gallon/day. Milk is fine as long as you're able to tolerate the lactose.*





> *Decent... not a big fan of all the skim milk*, but if it works for u, so be it. 
> I think dropping calories on non-workout days is fine, however I'd keep the protein high - no need to change it at all imo, it's the only macro I don't manipulate. I'd reduce carbs further to keep calories lower, OR bump protein just a bit but have less of a caloric deficit - i.e. leave the carbs in the 190g range.


So milk is good or Bad??? I'm so confused now. On my lift days the max milk I take in is 2 1/4 cups. Total macros for that would break down to 180cals, 0 fat , 27g carbs(sugar), and 20.25g Protein. It doesn't seem that bad over the course of a day. But PLEASE tell me if I'm wrong. I desperately wanta make sure I'm getting this right. I don't want my all my hardwork to be in vain.

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## Patrickthecool

Awesome man! i will try to keep up

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## gbrice75

> So milk is good or Bad??? I'm so confused now. On my lift days the max milk I take in is 2 1/4 cups. Total macros for that would break down to 180cals, 0 fat , 27g carbs(sugar), and 20.25g Protein. It doesn't seem that bad over the course of a day. But PLEASE tell me if I'm wrong. I desperately wanta make sure I'm getting this right. I don't want my all my hardwork to be in vain.


lol, sorry for the confusion!

I'm saying I personally love milk - the taste, texture, etc. However I'm not a fan during cutting diets. One of my goals during cutting is to keep sugar as low as possible... <20g if I can... so milk would be completely counter-productive. 

You pickin' up what I'm puttin' down?  :Wink:

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## slfmade

> lol, sorry for the confusion!
> 
> I'm saying I personally love milk - the taste, texture, etc. However I'm not a fan during cutting diets. One of my goals during cutting is to keep sugar as low as possible... <20g if I can... so milk would be completely counter-productive. 
> 
> *You pickin' up what I'm puttin' down?*


Why are you trying to get me to bend over????? LOL- But yes I get what you're saying. So for lean bulk purposes I should be okay? Right now I'm eating so much I'm actually feeling a little tired...I just ate and I wanta take a nap. The milk I'm taking is used with the oats like a cereal, so it helps me get it down and adds on some liquid calories that don't seem to feel me up as much. It seem my stomach is getting a little bigger week by week (not in fat way, but like expanding). Hopefully next week I can fill those milk calories with something a bit more productive. Can I get a G2G stamp of approval?????

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## tbody66

GB was on a cut for so long it makes him always respond from a cutting cycle viewpoint. Forgive him, you are G2G from my vantage point. Just remind GB you are on a bulk!

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## slfmade

Just finished my workout...4 Down 20 to go.

The 2 day break made this feel like it was the first day I had ever done this workout routine...EXHAUSTING!!!! It was great though...by the end of it my biceps looked like they were gonna pop out of my skin. HUGE PUMPS tonight all round.

Instead of doing 60min LIC on the treadmill tomorrow....BrownGirl and I are gonna wake our butts up early and go on a 2 hour hike instead. Should be fun.

Tbody-One problem I'm having is with pull ups. I kind of have girly lats and when I do the pull ups I only feel it in my biceps...they definetly overpower my lats. I've tried to focus on making my lats do all the work, but it just isn't working for me. Is there anything else I can do as a substitute? Also, the skull crushers don't seem to really be pushing my triceps as hard as i would like...is there a substitute for that as well. Everything else hits the muscles really hard and I like all of them, but I feel my lats and triceps are taking a back seat to everything else.

Thanks for the help

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## gbrice75

Re: pullups - make sure you are coming down to a complete hang/stretch at the bottom of each rep. That'll force your lats to work. I see so many guys who go down only 3/4 or even halfway, keeping a lot of the tension focused on their biceps. Consequently, they usually wind up with decent bi's... and underdeveloped lats. 

As a sub, how about a simple lat pulldown with perfect form?

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## baseline_9

> Just finished my workout...4 Down 20 to go.
> 
> The 2 day break made this feel like it was the first day I had ever done this workout routine...EXHAUSTING!!!! It was great though...by the end of it my biceps looked like they were gonna pop out of my skin. HUGE PUMPS tonight all round.
> 
> Instead of doing 60min LIC on the treadmill tomorrow....BrownGirl and I are gonna wake our butts up early and go on a 2 hour hike instead. Should be fun.
> 
> Tbody-One problem I'm having is with pull ups. I kind of have girly lats and when I do the pull ups I only feel it in my biceps...they definetly overpower my lats. I've tried to focus on making my lats do all the work, but it just isn't working for me. Is there anything else I can do as a substitute? Also, the skull crushers don't seem to really be pushing my triceps as hard as i would like...is there a substitute for that as well. Everything else hits the muscles really hard and I like all of them, but I feel my lats and triceps are taking a back seat to everything else.
> 
> Thanks for the help


Begin your back workout with pullovers.... using a machine or cables with a rope attachment.

Pre-exhausting your lats and then doing close underhand grip pull ups is gr8

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## tbody66

Slf,

I'd go with GB on this one, look at the vids on my thread for the pull-down form and use that. I don't completely disagree with Base's recommended approach, however two reasons I don't agree for this for you right now: 1 - You are on a total body routine with supersets adding the pull-over as a pre-fatigue movement would require too much additional time and we would have to find another chest exercise to super-set it with. 2 - The pullover is a stretch involving the entire barrel of the upper body and I personally am not convinced of it's return on investment, also easy to overdo it with too much weight or not perfect form, especially if you aren't used to the motion. 

so replace your pull-ups with pull-downs and do them how I show in my video and see how that goes.

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## slfmade

Thanks Tbody...I'll give that a shot.

Also...Last night with SLDL I made sure to go down as low as I can and TODAY I definetely feel it in the hams. So just that little tweak made all the difference...thanks!

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## tbody66

> Thanks Tbody...I'll give that a shot.
> 
> Also...Last night with SLDL I made sure to go down as low as I can and TODAY I definetely feel it in the hams. So just that little tweak made all the difference...thanks!


Always a pleasure!

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## -KJ-

Good to see your going strong SLF!
Keep it up

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## slfmade

Last Night was routine #5. So 5 down 19 to Go. Good Workout. I'm now able to hit the higher end of my reps with the weight I started at, so starting Monday It'll be time to increase the weight. Everything is good for the most part, but I'm not really feeling like my triceps are getting hit hard enough with the skull crushers...could I switch those up with Tricep pushdowns Tbody? I mentioned why in your log. 

Woke up this morning did a fasted 2 hr hike.

Diet is getting easier in terms of I no longer feel like I'm killing myself with the 3k calories on lift days so I'm happy about that. 

PICTURE DAY MONDAY!!!!

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## tbody66

Looking forward to pics.

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## slfmade

> Looking forward to pics.


Good Deal...What about my question on the triceps?

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## slfmade

Nevermind....Just saw you addressed this in your log.

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## Standby

maybe im not following this right but why is it you want to switch skull crushers if they are hitting it good?

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## slfmade

> maybe im not following this right but why is it you want to switch skull crushers if they are hitting it good?


Yep, you were following it wrong. LOL I was saying that I'm not really feeling the muscle contractions with the skull crushers like I do with push downs. I'm going heavy but I feel it in my forearms more than I do in my triceps, plus it almost feels like it's pinching my ulnar nerve (funny bone) when I come down to my forehead. Kinda weird I know!

No worries though. Tbody said in his other post he believes skull crushers to be one of the best mass builders for triceps. So even though I'm not feeling it very much, I'm gonna stick with and see where it goes.

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## -KJ-

Do you bring the bar to your forehead or towards back of head??

----------


## Papiriqui

> Yep, you were following it wrong. LOL I was saying that I'm not really feeling the muscle contractions with the skull crushers like I do with push downs. I'm going heavy but I feel it in my forearms more than I do in my triceps, plus it almost feels like it's pinching my ulnar nerve (funny bone) when I come down to my forehead. Kinda weird I know!
> 
> No worries though. Tbody said in his other post he believes skull crushers to be one of the best mass builders for triceps. So even though I'm not feeling it very much, I'm gonna stick with and see where it goes.


I am not by any means trying to say you are doing them wrong but perhaps you are bringing your elbows in, or moving the arms instead of concentrating it on the tricep? I mean i dont know, you are the one doing them so what do you think? Are you performing them the correct way so it concentrates on the tricep?

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## Standby

yep i think you should look into how your doing them. skull crushers kill my tris when i go back with the bar i cant see it. found it works best for me

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## slfmade

Standby....So you're suggesting I do them like this???http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_KZxkY_0cM

I've been doing them like this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5pU4Lyy7Tk

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## Papiriqui

> Standby....So you're suggesting I do them like this???http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_KZxkY_0cM
> 
> I've been doing them like this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5pU4Lyy7Tk


I do them like video #2 but and apparently you too! That still doesnt mean you are doing them right. Like i said your elbows have to find their free form, when you push elbows in you are forcing them so they hurt and work another muscle aa well.

Im not saying thats what you do but is an example, you have to figure out if your form is correct and if it feels natural, if it does than TBody could guide you to the next level !

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## -KJ-

Just my input.... I do them like video two! not so far back though... Slow on the negative phase and quicker on positive! works for me

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## tbody66

If you are doing them like video 2 then try moving the weight closer to performing them like video one and see if you feel it more in the tricep. Lower the weight during experimentation. The two keys are to keep your elbows in tight, don't flay them out, pretend you have a shoestring tying them together with a bar in between so they can't go out further and they can't come in closer. Do like KJ says and lower the weight twice as slow as you extend it. The second key is to keep your upper arm stationary. What that means is...hold your arms straight out away from your body while lying on the bench. Let your arms fall slightly towards your head, now keep your biceps/triceps portion of the arm held there, break the elbows and lower the weight to your forehead/top of your head without moving the biceps/triceps part of the arm, straighten your forearms up to lockout - repeat. I'll try to get some vids up to help you out.

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## -KJ-

You could try using the cables also... You can adjust the angle of the bench for a variation. Constant tension through out the exercise.

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## Standby

i do them like vid 2 but move it back further about 3-4inchs for its behind my head a tad. pretty much what tbody said. i also go pretty slow with a good squeeze. sometimes after the set ill use the same bar and go straight into a close grip bench and hit my tris harder

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## Sgt. Hartman

> Yep, you were following it wrong. LOL I was saying that I'm not really feeling the muscle contractions with the skull crushers like I do with push downs. I'm going heavy but I feel it in my forearms more than I do in my triceps, plus it almost feels like it's pinching my ulnar nerve (funny bone) when I come down to my forehead. Kinda weird I know!
> 
> No worries though. Tbody said in his other post he believes skull crushers to be one of the best mass builders for triceps. So even though I'm not feeling it very much, I'm gonna stick with and see where it goes.


My opinion, take it for what it's worth. The reason you're not feeling much for triceps is because you're only doing 1 exercise for them. They're not some tiny body part that can be exhausted in 1 exercise of straight sets. If we were talking about rest-pause training or some other form of HIT I could see the point, but three sets of one tricep exercise is not enough to stimulate growth IMO. And if you're performing the WO in the order that you have it posted on the first page, then your CNS is fried by the time you get to triceps and even though you're giving what you think is maximum effort, your mind-muscle connection and ability to contract the muscle to it's fullest extent is not possible.

Play around with your form though and see if that helps. If you're feeling it in your forearm, try doing it more like video 1, making sure the upper part of your arms are 90 degrees to the floor with your elbows as close together as possible. But I wouldn't recommend going as far down behind the head as that guy does, looks like tendonitis waiting to happen to me.

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## slfmade

Thanks for all of your comments on this. I guess I'm just gonna have to start by playing around with my form and see what can be done there. I've been doing them the way I've always been taught ever since my HS football days, and just like the video I posted the link to. That being said, I can imagine that I'm doing it incorrectly. Like SGT said I might just be so fatigued by the end of the routine that even though I feel like I'm pushing it hard...well you read what SGT said.

I'll more than likely finish the program out as it is since after tonight I'm already 2 weeks complete and only have 6 more to go. If I need to make changes the next go around I'll do so then.

Thanks again guys.....

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## Standby

think about using your palms when you do it just like the press down thing you want to do dont pull with your fingers push it back up with your palms if that helps any. play around like you said

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## slfmade

> think about using your palms when you do it just like the press down thing you want to do dont pull with your fingers push it back up with your palms if that helps any. play around like you said


Will do...I leave for the gym in about an hour. I'll spend a little time with it and post the results later this evening.

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## tbody66

I will now give you a guaranteed way to feel it in the triceps.... lower the weight..... reverse the grip. Be very careful with this approach, could not end well if you don't keep your grip.

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## slfmade

> I will now give you a guaranteed way to feel it in the triceps.... lower the weight..... reverse the grip. Be very careful with this approach, could not end well if you don't keep your grip.


I'll give that shot; however, I experimented with a few things tonight and found a winner. Before I was dropping the bar to the top of my forehead. Standby suggested to move the bar back a little further so I gave that a shot and it worked great. To better explain it, I brought the bar to about the center of my scalp (center of top of the head). I think by doing this it dropped by elbows (which I keep stationary) back a few inches as well, and this contracted my tri's much better. Does that make sense?

I'll definitely give the reverse grip a shot as well - Maybe wear wrist straps just incase LOL.

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## slfmade

Workout #6 done - 18 to go.

Went up 20lbs on squat tonight. I wasn't going to go up in weight until next week, but I wanted to see how it felt on the first set. It felt horrible in a really good way so I kept with it for sets 2 and 3.

I've got fasted cardio in the morning and then Sunday I'll get a much needed Break. Pics and measurements will be updated on Monday.

P.S. Tonight at the gym I saw a PT having a girl do something like a SLDL meets squat. She had 135lbs on her shoulders like she was going to do squat, legs straight, and then bent over with the bar on her shoulders like she was doing a SLDL. I'm no personal trainer, but this seemed like a VERY bad idea to me. I don't know wtf kinda exercise this was.

----------


## Standby

> I'll give that shot; however, I experimented with a few things tonight and found a winner. Before I was dropping the bar to the top of my forehead. Standby suggested to move the bar back a little further so I gave that a shot and it worked great. To better explain it, I brought the bar to about the center of my scalp (center of top of the head). I think by doing this it dropped by elbows (which I keep stationary) back a few inches as well, and this contracted my tri's much better. Does that make sense?
> 
> I'll definitely give the reverse grip a shot as well - Maybe wear wrist straps just incase LOL.


good to hear. i gave up on skulls once cause i didnt feel them either. then i found what worked for me. now im loving them

----------


## slfmade

2 weeks down - 18 to Go (6 weeks left on Bulk)

Start Weight - 179.5 
****Current Weight - 184****

Bodyfat - *Same* (although from the pics - it almost seems like I've lost a bit)

Measurements:

Neck: Was -12 3/8
****Now -15 1/2**** (shocking - I'm thinking I must have measured wrong the first time)

Chest: Was - 41
****Now - 41 1/2****

Arm: Was - 15
****Now - 15 1/4****

Waist: Was - 34
****Now - 33 1/2****

Legs: Was - 22 1/2
****Now - 23****

Calf: Was -16
****Now - 16 1/8*


Progress Pics by slfmade, on Flickr

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## Standby

i think you look like you lost some fat. good job keep it up

----------


## slfmade

> i think you look like you lost some fat. good job keep it up


Thanks...I think so too. The widest part of my waist dropped 1/2 an inch. The biggest difference I see is in my chest; specifically my upper chest. It also seems like my arms have a tiny bit more definition. I wish I could see more mass gains and it's tempting to wanta jump on my first cycle, but I know I have so much more room to improve first so I'm gonna stick with it. I guess 5 lbs in 2 weeks with a small drop in bodyfat isn't so bad.

You can definitely see a difference in my legs...this is where I carry the most mass. However, my legs are bigfoot hairy and I don't want to shave them more than once so I'm saving those pics for the end of this log.

----------


## auslifta

> My opinion, take it for what it's worth. The reason you're not feeling much for triceps is because you're only doing 1 exercise for them. They're not some tiny body part that can be exhausted in 1 exercise of straight sets. If we were talking about rest-pause training or some other form of HIT I could see the point, but three sets of one tricep exercise is not enough to stimulate growth IMO. And if you're performing the WO in the order that you have it posted on the first page, then your CNS is fried by the time you get to triceps and even though you're giving what you think is maximum effort, your mind-muscle connection and ability to contract the muscle to it's fullest extent is not possible.
> 
> Play around with your form though and see if that helps. If you're feeling it in your forearm, try doing it more like video 1, making sure the upper part of your arms are 90 degrees to the floor with your elbows as close together as possible. But I wouldn't recommend going as far down behind the head as that guy does, looks like tendonitis waiting to happen to me.


Good post

----------


## slfmade

Workout 7/24 complete - 17 more to go!

Good workout tonight...I added weight to most every exercise. I took 2 caffeine pills before I went to give me a little extra push because I was feeling a little tired today. Now I can't sleep and I've got fasted cardio in about 8 hours, so hopefully I'll start getting sleepy soon.

I've started looking into a workout routine for when I start the cutting portion of the diet. I know it's still 5 1/2 weeks out, but I'm the kinda guy that has to plan everything out far in advance. I'm looking into HIT training right now and trying to do as much research as possible all while trying to more info on "IF" dieting. So hopefully you experts can help me with that.

Will probably put in my order for clen /t3/keto this next week, and I'm also looking into MT2 to get me a little darker. I need a tan and Browngirl is paranoid that if I go to the tanning beds I'm going to get skin cancer and the spray tanning looks fake. So I'm researching that as well.

----------


## -KJ-

> Workout 7/24 complete - 17 more to go!
> 
> Good workout tonight...I added weight to most every exercise. I took 2 caffeine pills before I went to give me a little extra push because I was feeling a little tired today. Now I can't sleep and I've got fasted cardio in about 8 hours, so hopefully I'll start getting sleepy soon.
> 
> I've started looking into a workout routine for when I start the cutting portion of the diet. I know it's still 5 1/2 weeks out, but I'm the kinda guy that has to plan everything out far in advance.* I'm looking into HIT training* right now and trying to do as much research as possible all while trying to more info on "IF" dieting. So hopefully you experts can help me with that.
> 
> Will probably put in my order for clen/t3/keto this next week, and I'm also looking into MT2 to get me a little darker. I need a tan and Browngirl is paranoid that if I go to the tanning beds I'm going to get skin cancer and the spray tanning looks fake. So I'm researching that as well.


Check out dorian yates Blood and Guts trainer. Its a 6 episode series on you tube.
Also A week in the dungeon with mark dugdale and dorian yates. 
Very good for HIT style lifting. 

Base has great knowledge on this if you hit him up he be happy to help.

----------


## RaginCajun

looks to me like you definitely leaned up some in your arms and other places. nice work in only two weeks!

----------


## -KJ-

nice job so far bro... just caught your pics there!

----------


## tbody66

> I'll give that shot; however, I experimented with a few things tonight and found a winner. Before I was dropping the bar to the top of my forehead. Standby suggested to move the bar back a little further so I gave that a shot and it worked great. To better explain it, I brought the bar to about the center of my scalp (center of top of the head). I think by doing this it dropped by elbows (which I keep stationary) back a few inches as well, and this contracted my tri's much better. Does that make sense?
> 
> I'll definitely give the reverse grip a shot as well - Maybe wear wrist straps just incase LOL.


Makes perfect sense, glad you found your groove.




> Workout #6 done - 18 to go.
> 
> Went up 20lbs on squat tonight. I wasn't going to go up in weight until next week, but I wanted to see how it felt on the first set. It felt horrible in a really good way so I kept with it for sets 2 and 3.
> 
> I've got fasted cardio in the morning and then Sunday I'll get a much needed Break. Pics and measurements will be updated on Monday.
> 
> P.S. Tonight at the gym I saw a PT having a girl do something like a SLDL meets squat. She had 135lbs on her shoulders like she was going to do squat, legs straight, and then bent over with the bar on her shoulders like she was doing a SLDL. I'm no personal trainer, but this seemed like a VERY bad idea to me. I don't know wtf kinda exercise this was.


Good job on the workout, the exercise the PT had the girl doing are called "good mornings", they are a very effective exercise as well for the hamstrings but require very strict form and absolutely keeping the abs tight and the core stable, sounds like a lot of weight for anyone to be doing them with, was the girl massive?




> Thanks...I think so too. The widest part of my waist dropped 1/2 an inch. The biggest difference I see is in my chest; specifically my upper chest. It also seems like my arms have a tiny bit more definition. I wish I could see more mass gains and it's tempting to wanta jump on my first cycle, but I know I have so much more room to improve first so I'm gonna stick with it. I guess 5 lbs in 2 weeks with a small drop in bodyfat isn't so bad.
> 
> You can definitely see a difference in my legs...this is where I carry the most mass. However, my legs are bigfoot hairy and I don't want to shave them more than once so I'm saving those pics for the end of this log.


Heavier with obviously lower bodyfat, win-win! Great job.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> 2 weeks down - 18 to Go (6 weeks left on Bulk)
> 
> Start Weight - 179.5 
> ****Current Weight - 184****
> 
> Bodyfat - *Same* (although from the pics - it almost seems like I've lost a bit)
> 
> Measurements:
> 
> ...


Nice job man, pretty significant difference in only 2 weeks. Looks like a good bit of fat loss from your side love handle area and tri's and pecs are showing improvement.

Good bit of info to know that you can eat 3k cal and over 300g of carbs and still lose BF. Seems I remember someone telling you not to be scared of the carbs......LOL  :Smilie: 

Nice going and keep at it.

----------


## gonnagethuge

Good job. Clearly lost a bit of bodyfat in the process which is quite a good achievement on a bulk.

I wouldnt get too concerned about piling on mass. Youreonly 2 weeks in. Slow and steady will win the race. I dont believe large volumes of quality mass (lean) on such short timeframes are possible anyway without the help of aas or pro genetics.

Excellent work in 2 weeks.

----------


## slfmade

> Check out dorian yates Blood and Guts trainer. Its a 6 episode series on you tube.
> Also A week in the dungeon with mark dugdale and dorian yates. 
> Very good for HIT style lifting. 
> 
> Base has great knowledge on this if you hit him up he be happy to help.


I watched a little bit of "A week in the dungeon" - I'll watch all of these over the next few week. It looked brutal and I'm already dreading it.

I'm not like a lot of you guys. I don't really enjoy working out balls to the wall, but I'm a very results driven person so if the end justifies the means I'm all up for it. I own a retail business....I DON'T LIKE IT, but I like my bank account at the end of the month so it's worth it.

Don't get me wrong I love to workout, but I'm looking forward to the day that I get where I wanta be and I can just focus on Maintaining. (I've still got a solid 2 years before I get there though) I'm just not a fan of killing myself in the gym like we all have to do to make gains.

All of that being said; I willing to do whatever and whenever to get to where I wanta be.

----------


## tbody66

Most people don't understand that it isn't the time in the gym that you should enjoy or look forward to it's the results from the time in the gym. I have grown to love it in a twisted sort of way, but not enjoy it in and of itself, basically developed a fondness/fetish for the pain. If someone is laughing it up in the gym they probably aren't getting much out of it.

----------


## slfmade

> Makes perfect sense, glad you found your groove.
> 
> *Me too!*
> 
> Good job on the workout, the exercise the PT had the girl doing are called "good mornings", they are a very effective exercise as well for the hamstrings but require very strict form and absolutely keeping the abs tight and the core stable, sounds like a lot of weight for anyone to be doing them with, was the girl massive?
> 
> *She wasn't that big at all...maybe 5'3 110 lbs at the most. I looked at "Good Mornings" on youtube and it was similar to this, but her legs were more in mid squat position. It looked like a squat with the worst form ever! Like she was squatting half way with her legs and then the "Good Morning". Either way, I doubt you'll ever see me doing these....It seems like an injury just waiting to happen!*
> 
> 
> ...


^^^See Bolds

----------


## slfmade

> Most people don't understand that it isn't the time in the gym that you should enjoy or look forward to it's the results from the time in the gym. I have grown to love it in a twisted sort of way, but not enjoy it in and of itself, basically developed a fondness/fetish for the pain. If someone is laughing it up in the gym they probably aren't getting much out of it.


Yeah, I love the feeling of accomplishment after I leave cause I know I've just pushed myself to its' limits, but the workout in and of itself doesn't put a smile on my face. I mean....it hurts, leaves me exhausted, and gasping for air. I'm not a masochist!

----------


## Noles12

I know you are not there yet but i do not like the T3 with no AAS unless you are willing to lose some muscle

----------


## slfmade

> looks to me like you definitely leaned up some in your arms and other places. nice work in only two weeks!


Thanks RC...Tomorrow I'm going to take some pics of my arms right after workout. I've always been a little self-conscious, but I have to admit when I see veins sprouting out everywhere it puts a smile on my face.




> nice job so far bro... just caught your pics there!


Thanks KJ




> Good job. Clearly lost a bit of bodyfat in the process which is quite a good achievement on a bulk.
> 
> I wouldnt get too concerned about piling on mass. Youreonly 2 weeks in. Slow and steady will win the race. I dont believe large volumes of quality mass (lean) on such short timeframes are possible anyway without the help of aas or pro genetics.
> 
> Excellent work in 2 weeks.


Thanks for that. I've never in my life been this strict with training and diet before and I didn't really know what to expect. Now that all of you guys are giving me this feedback...I feel much better. Makes me wanta push even harder and get one last rep in.

----------


## slfmade

> Nice job man, pretty significant difference in only 2 weeks. Looks like a good bit of fat loss from your side love handle area and tri's and pecs are showing improvement.
> 
> Good bit of info to know that you can eat 3k cal and over 300g of carbs and still lose BF. Seems I remember someone telling you not to be scared of the carbs......LOL 
> 
> Nice going and keep at it.


Thanks Sgt...That means a lot. Like I've said in the other posts...I didn't know what to expect, and was afraid that you guys wouldn't think I had made much of an improvement. So I'm very happy to be getting compliments. 

I was kinda surprised that I could eat that many carbs and that many cals and still lose BF. I feel good because now I'm starting to get 1st hand experience that I can share with the newbie's. Soon I will really will be a "productive" productive member. LOL

----------


## slfmade

> I know you are not there yet but i do not like the T3 with no AAS unless you are willing to lose some muscle


Thanks for you input Noles. TBH I've been questioning the T3 lately as well. I've ran it many times before in my mid 20's, and I found that if I really watched my diet....there wasn't any significant decrease in LBM.

However; that was in my mid 20's. I'll be 30 in a few months. I know for a fact my T-levels are nowhere even close to where they were when I was 24. So I have been concerned that the T3 might burn some muscle.

My primary motivation for all of this is to make sure than I'm 10% or less bodyfat by the 4th week in May. I'm moving back closer to my family and I wanta make a big impression. Last time I saw my friends and family I had let myself go and was 233lbs and over 25% bodyfat. It was completely embarrassing. We went to the lake and I wouldn't even take my shirt off. For my 30th birthday (end of may) we'll be spending the weekend at the lake again and I'll be damned if I can't even take my shirt off in front of my family. I don't wanta even see an ounce of love handles, and from past experience I know at or below 10% is where this happens.

I don't have any experience when it comes to losing BF quickly...I've never dieted and trained as hard as I am now. I don't know how long it will take to drop 5-6% bodyfat, but I do know I only have 12 weeks after this lean bulk is over. I know it takes some people a year to drop a 2-3% and I've heard others say 5% in 12 weeks is doable.

At the end of the day I would rather be a little smaller with NO love handles than a little bigger with love handles. If the T3 can aid in that then.....

At the same time my mind is telling me that bulking is just too damn hard to give it all up for this...So honestly I don't know. I haven't decided yet.

So let me get all of your opinions....How doable is it too lose 5-6% body fat in 12 weeks on clen (or ECA), diet, and training alone? (Without T3)

Thanks

----------


## tbody66

Don't know about T3, so no input there, I do know that what you have started is a lifestyle change and will ultimately produce more than you want it to short term. IMO don't trade off a short term plus for long term minus. Do the best you can during the time you have and you will be impressive no matter what. Your family won't think anything about a little bit of love handles based upon the overall difference you'll be sporting at the time. Slow and steady wins the race, stay safe and consistent and be pleased with whatever you have accomplished by that time. You have proven you can stick with it when it counts, so don't throw that away for something unhealthy or unsafe. I'm not saying it isn't accomplishable, I'm just saying do the best you can and live with it.

----------


## slfmade

> Don't know about T3, so no input there, I don know that what you have started is a lifestyle change and will ultimately produce more than you want it to short term. IMO don't trade off a short term plus for long term minus. Do the best you can during the time you have and you will be impressive no matter what. *Your family won't think anything about a little bit of love handles based upon the overall difference you'll be sporting at the time.* Slow and steady wins the race, stay safe and consistent and be pleased with whatever you have accomplished by that time. You have proven you can stick with it when it counts, so don't throw that away for something unhealthy or unsafe. I'm not saying it isn't accomplishable, I'm just saying do the best you can and live with it.


I know my family won't care, it's just my own insecurities. When I was younger (early 20'a) I was in great shape....I was that arrogant guy that looked for a reason to take his shirt off. lol Now I just feel horrible to see people I haven't seen in a while because I went from that to this. So anyway...I guess I'll figure it out as I go.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> So let me get all of your opinions....How doable is it too lose 5-6% body fat in 12 weeks on clen (or ECA), diet, and training alone? (Without T3)
> 
> Thanks




Very doable, just ask base. And that's more than 5%.

----------


## Noles12

Currently lost about 8% in 7 weeks. Nothing but diet and training adjustments.

I was in the lower 20s and now im around 15

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## slfmade

Alright alright...No T3 then... Just the Clen and Keto paired with a HIT routine and IF diet. Still doing all the research I can on HIT, but for some reason I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it...I guess because there's so many variations of it.

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## Standby

t3 is definitely not needed slfmade its more of your choice. ive lost 80lbs and id guess somewhere around 20%bf and havent even seen t3 before let alone used it

----------


## slfmade

So I've been doing a little research on various training techniques and I was wondering if I could incorporate forced negatives on my final set of my some of my exercises that I'm currently doing? (ex. Flat Bench)

My main concern with this would be recovery since I'm already doing 3 full body superset days per week(Mon/Wed/Fri). Would the added intensity be too much for a 2 day recovery time?

----------


## slfmade

8 workouts down - 16 to GO!!!

Did my 8th workout last night. I increased weight on every exercise again. I pushed myself probably the hardest I have so far and I'm VERY sore today!!! I'm still having problems with my lats...I just don't feel like I working them much at all. I spent a lot of time last night trying to do the lat pull downs with perfect form, but my biceps seem to be giving out before my lats do. For those of you that don't know I'm supersetting the flat bench with lat pull downs. If I go heavy I can feel the pull downs but by the time I get to rep 5-8 by biceps just give out on me. The only way I can get my full set in is if I go light but I'm not feeling it very much at all in my lats.

It sucks because I really want that "V" shape, but I just can't see any improvement with my lats.

Since I started this program my right shoulder has been feeling a little odd in my rotator cuff area. It's been progressively getting worse too. It's not unbearable, just a little annoying. It mainly bothers me on incline press if my elbows come in a little too much so I've been trying to keep them pushed out a little more. Should this be a concern or should I just keep working myself into it?

P.S. I really love keeping this log. It makes me push myself harder now that you guys have given me props on my recent progress pics. I want myself and all of you guys to keep seeing my gains which I know helped me get extra rep or 2 in last night. Thanks Again.

----------


## RaginCajun

> 8 workouts down - 16 to GO!!!
> 
> Did my 8th workout last night. I increased weight on every exercise again. I pushed myself probably the hardest I have so far and I'm VERY sore today!!! I'm still having problems with my lats...I just don't feel like I working them much at all. I spent a lot of time last night trying to do the lat pull downs with perfect form, but my biceps seem to be giving out before my lats do. For those of you that don't know I'm supersetting the flat bench with lat pull downs. If I go heavy I can feel the pull downs but by the time I get to rep 5-8 by biceps just give out on me. The only way I can get my full set in is if I go light but I'm not feeling it very much at all in my lats.
> 
> It sucks because I really want that "V" shape, but I just can't see any improvement with my lats.
> 
> Since I started this program my right shoulder has been feeling a little odd in my rotator cuff area. It's been progressively getting worse too. It's not unbearable, just a little annoying. It mainly bothers me on incline press if my elbows come in a little too much so I've been trying to keep them pushed out a little more. Should this be a concern or should I just keep working myself into it?
> 
> P.S. *I really love keeping this log. It makes me push myself harder* now that you guys have given me props on my recent progress pics. I want myself and all of you guys to keep seeing my gains which I know helped me get extra rep or 2 in last night. Thanks Again.


BOLD, this is what helps me strive on everyday!

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> 8 workouts down - 16 to GO!!!
> 
> Did my 8th workout last night. I increased weight on every exercise again. I pushed myself probably the hardest I have so far and I'm VERY sore today!!! I'm still having problems with my lats...I just don't feel like I working them much at all. I spent a lot of time last night trying to do the lat pull downs with perfect form, but my biceps seem to be giving out before my lats do. For those of you that don't know I'm supersetting the flat bench with lat pull downs. If I go heavy I can feel the pull downs but by the time I get to rep 5-8 by biceps just give out on me. The only way I can get my full set in is if I go light but I'm not feeling it very much at all in my lats.
> 
> It sucks because I really want that "V" shape, but I just can't see any improvement with my lats.
> 
> Since I started this program my right shoulder has been feeling a little odd in my rotator cuff area. It's been progressively getting worse too. It's not unbearable, just a little annoying. It mainly bothers me on incline press if my elbows come in a little too much so I've been trying to keep them pushed out a little more. Should this be a concern or should I just keep working myself into it?
> 
> P.S. I really love keeping this log. It makes me push myself harder now that you guys have given me props on my recent progress pics. I want myself and all of you guys to keep seeing my gains which I know helped me get extra rep or 2 in last night. Thanks Again.


Make sure that your shoulder blades are squeezed together in the back. Imagine squeezing a pencil in between your shoulder blades throughout the entire movement. And contract your lats hard at the bottom of the movement. 

Another thing that helps me is to pull from the heel of your palm, if that makes sense, I don't wrap my thumbs around the bar and concentrate on pulling with the heel of my palm and not my fingers. If you don't feel it when you try it use some wrist straps and you'll get the hang of it.

----------


## Standby

yep just like i said about skulls and now sgt said use your palms not fingers. works best with almost everything man

----------


## tbody66

You are doing great. About the shoulder, maybe try coming in one finger width closer together on the incline bench, might just be too wide so putting undo strain on the shoulder.

----------


## slfmade

So I've got a convention all week next week that I have to go to. I'm a little concerned about my diet and wanta make sure I don't do anything to effect my progress. 

I'm thinking about keeping all my meals the same as I would any other week, but running it like an IF Diet for the week. So 3k cals broken up into 3 meals at 2:00 p.m. 5:00 p.m. and 9:00 p.m. I've read alot about IF but want to make sure this would be okay sense it's one week only. I just don't want my body going into shock wondering what the hell I'm doing and shut down gains. My only other option is walking 1/2 a mile to my car every 2 hours and I don't wanta do that.

Also, I'll be there from 8:00 a.m. to about 4:00 p.m. and walking the entire time...should I bump calories for this considering my TDEE is currently calculated based off me sitting on my ass all day? 

AND.... How would all of this walking effect my recovery from doing legs 3 times a week. Sorry for all the questions but it's stressing me out a bit.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

Just hit the macros that you're shooting for and don't worry about the other. You'll still be doing the same training routine, right?

----------


## slfmade

^^^Yep.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

It's a controversial topic but meal timing/frequency is of little importance IMO. 6 meals or 3 doesn't really matter, just hit your macros.

----------


## tbody66

> It's a controversial topic but meal timing/frequency is of little importance IMO. 6 meals or 3 doesn't really matter, just hit your macros.


And don't adjust calories since it's just a week. But if you do happen to add 100 cals it won't derail you either. The main thing is to not stress about it, stress will definitely affect you more negatively than not having it completely dialed in, IMO.

----------


## slfmade

9 workout days complete - 15 more to Go.

So I just completed lift day #9. I'm noticing a substantial increase in strength daily. Each day I lift it seems I'm able to do either more weight or more reps so I'm pretty excited about my newbie gains. It's really gonna suck though when this slows up as its' sure to do.

Now to the topic of my lats. Those who read this log know I've been struggling with building my lats. I went in today excited to try out a few ideas that you all gave me. Unfortunately there was this HUGE asshole that was taking up both the pull up station as well as lat pulldowns. I looked around and saw a hammer strength machine called the "iso-lateral high row". The diagram showed it worked the lat area so since I had no other options I gave it a shot. This KILLED my lats and I had a love/hate relationship with every rep I pulled. For those who aren't familiar here's a video I just found on youtube for the machine.http://youtu.be/wWLSErG8qGk

My question is can I use this from now on???? If no.....why the HELL not???? lol The reason I ask is in the past I've found other things that seem to work my muscles better, but I've been advised against it. So if this machine is not a good substitution for pullups/pulldowns can you please explain why so I'm not just going on blind faith and can learn something in the process.

Thanks Guys

----------


## --->>405<<---

16 weeks slf... i did start trt but thats all.. no fatburners.. u can do it man!  :Smilie:

----------


## tbody66

> 9 workout days complete - 15 more to Go.
> 
> So I just completed lift day #9. I'm noticing a substantial increase in strength daily. Each day I lift it seems I'm able to do either more weight or more reps so I'm pretty excited about my newbie gains. It's really gonna suck though when this slows up as its' sure to do.
> 
> Now to the topic of my lats. Those who read this log know I've been struggling with building my lats. I went in today excited to try out a few ideas that you all gave me. Unfortunately there was this HUGE asshole that was taking up both the pull up station as well as lat pulldowns. I looked around and saw a hammer strength machine called the "iso-lateral high row". The diagram showed it worked the lat area so since I had no other options I gave it a shot. This KILLED my lats and I had a love/hate relationship with every rep I pulled. For those who aren't familiar here's a video I just found on youtube for the machine.http://youtu.be/wWLSErG8qGk
> 
> My question is can I use this from now on???? If no.....why the HELL not???? lol The reason I ask is in the past I've found other things that seem to work my muscles better, but I've been advised against it. So if this machine is not a good substitution for pullups/pulldowns can you please explain why so I'm not just going on blind faith and can learn something in the process.
> 
> Thanks Guys


Yes, you may replace the pull-downs with this exercise. The point is to have a back exercise that we are super-setting with a chest exercise, it isn't as important as to what they are. This machine makes you have to stay in the proper position and if you are feeling it than use it. The lat pull-down requires adjustment to "hit" the sweet-spot and it is easier to miss it.

----------


## -KJ-

Hey bro? Just dropping in... Hows the diet coming along?

----------


## RaginCajun

> 9 workout days complete - 15 more to Go.
> 
> So I just completed lift day #9. I'm noticing a substantial increase in strength daily. Each day I lift it seems I'm able to do either more weight or more reps so I'm pretty excited about my newbie gains. It's really gonna suck though when this slows up as its' sure to do.
> 
> Now to the topic of my lats. Those who read this log know I've been struggling with building my lats. I went in today excited to try out a few ideas that you all gave me. Unfortunately there was this HUGE asshole that was taking up both the pull up station as well as lat pulldowns. I looked around and saw a hammer strength machine called the "iso-lateral high row". The diagram showed it worked the lat area so since I had no other options I gave it a shot. This KILLED my lats and I had a love/hate relationship with every rep I pulled. For those who aren't familiar here's a video I just found on youtube for the machine.http://youtu.be/wWLSErG8qGk
> 
> My question is can I use this from now on???? If no.....why the HELL not???? lol The reason I ask is in the past I've found other things that seem to work my muscles better, but I've been advised against it. So if this machine is not a good substitution for pullups/pulldowns can you please explain why so I'm not just going on blind faith and can learn something in the process.
> 
> Thanks Guys


keep killin it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## slfmade

> Hey bro? Just dropping in... Hows the diet coming along?


Diet is good. I'm have a convention all this week and because of it I'm running the same diet and same macros but "IF" style this week.

I did weigh in this morning and was kinda bummed. It seems I dropped some weight. I don't know how on 3000 calories....Oh well I hope it was a small gain in muscle and a significant drop in Bodyfat.

I'll update more later....gotta go to this convention. I'M LATE!!!

----------


## tbody66

> Diet is good. I'm have a convention all this week and because of it I'm running the same diet and same macros but "IF" style this week.
> 
> I did weigh in this morning and was kinda bummed. It seems I dropped some weight. I don't know how on 3000 calories....Oh well I hope it was a small gain in muscle and a significant drop in Bodyfat.
> 
> I'll update more later....gotta go to this convention. I'M LATE!!!


Don't get discouraged, you are absolutely doing a great job and are incredibly consitent and focused.

----------


## Standby

> Diet is good. I'm have a convention all this week and because of it I'm running the same diet and same macros but "IF" style this week.
> 
> I did weigh in this morning and was kinda bummed. It seems I dropped some weight. I don't know how on 3000 calories....Oh well I hope it was a small gain in muscle and a significant drop in Bodyfat.
> 
> I'll update more later....gotta go to this convention. I'M LATE!!!


dont worry about it. dont even think about it. weigh in record your numbers and forget that shit

----------


## slfmade

10 lift days down - 14 to go!!! Great workout tonight! I'll touch on this shortly.

This morning I was 182lbs. Crazy thing was Friday night I was 189lbs (This was of course at the end of a lift day which I consume the most amount of calories on) It's crazy how reducing carbs for the 2 lift days afterwards drops weight (mostly water I'm sure) that quickly.

I'm not too discouraged because I'm looking better week by week.

Due to the convention I started "IF" Style Diet. As I mentioned earlier it's all the same meals and macros, but seperated into 3 meals within and 8 hour window. So far....I LOVE IT!!!!!

I'm seriously considering sticking with in. The hungar wasn't that bad at all and I had a crazy amount of energy this evening during my workout. This was probably due to the 150g of carbs I had for preworkout meal! I felt like I had just done an ECA stack.

I also liked it because I felt completely satisfied after each meal. I'm going to continue with this style diet until the end of the week and see how I feel and look. If the results are good, I'll probably continue. I guess we'll see. I'll keep you guys updated.

----------


## slfmade

Also, Tonight I tried hammer strength for incline press to see if that relieved some of the pain from my right shoulder (it seems to be getting a bit worse everytime I lift) and it didn't help. Tbody - would it be okay to try some DB incline press to see if that helps the shoulder out a bit. If not, no biggy....I can power through it (it's not that bad...but at the rate of progression I feel it might be pretty bad by the time this is over). I just don't want to do anything that really screws it up.

----------


## Papiriqui

Yeah i think if is a constant pain and it progresses you should think about changing to let the pain go away, let the shoulder heal.... Lets wait for T

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## slfmade

Update: I'm back from the convention - Monday is my weight in, measurements, and pictures

So this last week as was at a convention Mon - Thurs. I decided to run an "IF" style diet just because it was much easier than eating every 2 hours. I did very well on Monday and then things went sideways. They had all different kinds of food catered by high end restuarants for free every day...so after a lot of justification I decided that I wasn't gonna be the guy to turn down free food and free beer. I had 2 beers each day at 140cals each. All in all I did stay within my daily calorie limit, but I'm sure my macro split was totally off. Luckily the only lift day that my macros weren't spot on was Wednesday, so I was 2 for 3.

I'm debating whether to continue the IF diet or not. I really like it a lot, but I always go off "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality. I think I'll continue it for the next week or 2 just to see how my body responds and go from there.

Yesterday made 4 weeks down in my bulk - 4 weeks to go. Then I start cutting.

For Valentines day I made reservations for BrownGirl and I to Pampas Grill. It's like a mongolian grill where they walk around and cut off all different slabs of meat (Beef, Lamb, Chicken, Veal, etc) I'm a little worried about how many calories this will add up to. Do you think it would be best to fast the entire day and eat my entire 2500cal limit for that one meal? I mean I know it would be better if I just didn't eat as much, but if I'm paying over 150.00 I'm gonna eat some food damnit!!! Lol What you guys think?

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## Sgt. Hartman

> Update: I'm back from the convention - Monday is my weight in, measurements, and pictures
> 
> So this last week as was at a convention Mon - Thurs. I decided to run an "IF" style diet just because it was much easier than eating every 2 hours. I did very well on Monday and then things went sideways. They had all different kinds of food catered by high end restuarants for free every day...so after a lot of justification I decided that I wasn't gonna be the guy to turn down free food and free beer. I had 2 beers each day at 140cals each. All in all I did stay within my daily calorie limit, but I'm sure my macro split was totally off. Luckily the only lift day that my macros weren't spot on was Wednesday, so I was 2 for 3.
> 
> I'm debating whether to continue the IF diet or not. I really like it a lot, but I always go off "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality. I think I'll continue it for the next week or 2 just to see how my body responds and go from there.
> 
> Yesterday made 4 weeks down in my bulk - 4 weeks to go. Then I start cutting.
> 
> For Valentines day I made reservations for BrownGirl and I to Pampas Grill. It's like a mongolian grill where they walk around and cut off all different slabs of meat (Beef, Lamb, Chicken, Veal, etc) I'm a little worried about how many calories this will add up to. Do you think it would be best to fast the entire day and eat my entire 2500cal limit for that one meal? I mean I know it would be better if I just didn't eat as much, but if I'm paying over 150.00 I'm gonna eat some food damnit!!! Lol What you guys think?


I say eat up! 

Sounds a lot like the Brazilian steakhouse Fogo de Chao. YUM!

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## slfmade

> I say eat up! 
> 
> Sounds a lot like the Brazilian steakhouse Fogo de Chao. YUM!


LOL - Yeah, Brazilian Steakhouse - that's what I meant....not mongolian grill - (don't know where I got that)

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## slfmade

Alrighty Guys - I need your help. I've got 4 weeks left to go during this lean bulk phase and then it's time for my cut. So, I figure it's time to start planning my diet and workout. (I know it's far in advance, but I like to be prepared) My moving date has been moved up 2 weeks early, so this only gives me 10 weeks for my cut instead of the original 12 I was planning on. I'll of course continue my cut until I reach my goal regardless; however, I would love to be in Single digits by May 15th.

Diet - Should be pretty easy, but I would like your thoughts. It'll be an IF style diet using a 40/40/20 macros split. My initial thoughts were to attempt to gain a little bit of LBM while during my cut. My thoughts on this were to run a HIT style program running my cals at TDEE for lift days and 500 cals below TDEE for non-lift. This is similiar to what I'm doing now (500cals over on Lift-500cals under on non-lift) on which I in fact HAVE gained LBM while dropping a little bit of bodyfat. This would be a nice bonus, but my main focus is dropping 5% bf, and at the very least maintaining my current LBM. What are your thoughts?

If you guys don't seem very confident in this plan I could always run 500cals under TDEE daily, or split it in 2. First 5 weeks the first way, last 5 weeks at 500 under TDEE daily.

I'll be adding clen /keto or ECA for the full length of the 10 weeks just to help a little.

WORKOUT - This is where I'm clueless! I've done enough research to know I want to give HIT a shot. However, there's so many variations out there its hard to completely wrap my head around it and then design a program that would work well for me. So this is where I need the MOST help. So....Base, SGT, Tbody, and anybody else that reads this log that has experience with HIT....help a brother out. You guys should know by now I'm one of the most committed newbies (I still consider myself a newbie) on here, so you won't be wasting your time.

Thanks Guys

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## slfmade

PICTURE UPDATE:

I'm not very pleased with the last 2 weeks results. I can see a small difference but nothing to write home about. The gains really seem to be slowing down. What should I do? Increase calories? I'm already at 3100 calories and 308g of carbs. I'm pushing myself as hard as possible in the gym. Now I'm all stressed out about it. Do you think I've hit my genetic potential like all the 20 yr olds on here have???? LOL Totally joking. But really what can I change?

I increased weight from 184lbs to 185lbs. - Bummer
Neck Increased from 15.5" to 16"
Chest DECREASED from 42.5" to 42" - I'm hoping this was due to a small drop in BF and not muscle loss
Arms stayed the same at 15 1/4"
Waist decreased from 33 3/4" to 33 1/2"
Legs increased from 24" to 24 1/4"
Calf increased from 16 1/8" to 16 1/4"


Progress Pics2 by slfmade, on Flickr

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## Standby

i dont see much difference other then i notice your posture is better. you dont look as hunched forward which is somethign that greatly improved with myself and in general makes you look way better. your traps look better but it migh tbe the posture thing. either way you have an improvement. keep at it!

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## slfmade

> i dont see much difference other then i notice your posture is better. you dont look as hunched forward which is somethign that greatly improved with myself and in general makes you look way better. your traps look better but it migh tbe the posture thing. either way you have an improvement. keep at it!


I didn't even notice the posture thing until you pointed it out. The only thing I can really notice is as you said my traps, and it seems there's a little more definition in my upper chest. In the previous pics the crease between my pecs gets a little flat at the top. This week it goes all the way up through my neck.

My back has showed significant improvement. I've been taking other pics that I'm not posting at the moment to save for my grand finale.

As I said before I'm not happy with the last 2 weeks results. Gonna see what things look like in 2 more weeks and if there isn't a significant improvement I think I'm gonna change it up a bit.

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## RaginCajun

a gain is a gain. your chest looks some what fuller in the last pic and your traps, but as standby said, could be posture. you have made strength gains in the past two weeks so look at the positive! your are doing fine and may need to switch up your workout some to get some gains. i am too lazy to scroll thru and see when was the last time you switched?

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## slfmade

> a gain is a gain. your chest looks some what fuller in the last pic and your traps, but as standby said, could be posture. you have made strength gains in the past two weeks so look at the positive! your are doing fine and may need to switch up your workout some to get some gains. i am too lazy to scroll thru and see when was the last time you switched?


Thanks RC - It's been 4 weeks since I started this program that Tbody put together for me. Seems to early to be changing, but the results sure have slowed down. Last week I didn't hit my macros spot on due to a week long convention, so I'm gonna give it another 2 weeks and make changes if I need to.

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## gonnagethuge

As Gb just advised me on his advice thread. It can actually take about 4 weeks to start seeing any effects of a new diet...or something to that effect anyway. his point was nothing is immediate and i tend to agree as ive bumped my calories significantly and improved a lot of other aspects as well as some strength gains but have yet to see much physical change yet. Try not to get stresses as im sure this will be nore detrimental to gains than anything else ever could. Besides 4 weeks is a really short timescale for changes in my opinion anyway.

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## slfmade

> As Gb just advised me on his advice thread. It can actually take about 4 weeks to start seeing any effects of a new diet...or something to that effect anyway. his point was nothing is immediate and i tend to agree as ive bumped my calories significantly and improved a lot of other aspects as well as some strength gains but have yet to see much physical change yet. Try not to get stresses as im sure this will be nore detrimental to gains than anything else ever could. Besides 4 weeks is a really short timescale for changes in my opinion anyway.


Point taken. My main concern is if you look at my starting pic and my 2 week pic; there's a significant change. I was excited about this and was hoping those kind of changes would continue on. I guess we'll see.

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## Sgt. Hartman

> As Gb just advised me on his advice thread. It can actually take about 4 weeks to start seeing any effects of a new diet...or something to that effect anyway. his point was nothing is immediate and i tend to agree as ive bumped my calories significantly and improved a lot of other aspects as well as some strength gains but have yet to see much physical change yet. Try not to get stresses as im sure this will be nore detrimental to gains than anything else ever could. Besides 4 weeks is a really short timescale for changes in my opinion anyway.


I don't know specifically what advise GB gave you but I think you might be taking it out of context. If you're eating a 500 calorie excess everyday then those 500 cals are going to be stored somewhere, whether it be new muscle or fat stores or both. It may take time to notice the changes in the mirror but excess calories eaten consistently ED will add weight and be stored. If not, then you've underestimated your maintenance calories or your energy expenditure.

Self, if you were to change any part of your diet then IMO it would be to eat at the same caloric excess everyday, whether it's a work out day or not. Maybe you could use those extra cals on your off days to repair (ie. grow new tissue and gain weight).

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## slfmade

> I don't know specifically what advise GB gave you but I think you might be taking it out of context. If you're eating a 500 calorie excess everyday then those 500 cals are going to be stored somewhere, whether it be new muscle or fat stores or both. It may take time to notice the changes in the mirror but excess calories eaten consistently ED will add weight and be stored. If not, then you've underestimated your maintenance calories or your energy expenditure.
> 
> *Self, if you were to change any part of your diet then IMO it would be to eat at the same caloric excess everyday, whether it's a work out day or not. Maybe you could use those extra cals on your off days to repair (ie. grow new tissue and gain weight*).


I had considered this as well. I'm just scared to death I might add bodyfat. If I didn't care about being in single digits by mid may...I would jump in with both feet. But I've gotta be looking my best by mid may. For this summer, I would rather be a little smaller and cut like a (something that's really cut lol), than be a bit bigger at 12% BF. After summer I'm gonna get real aggressive with my bulk, but for now I'm just trying to add enough that when I get down to say 9% I don't look too small. 

Let's say I were to drop to 9% overnight right now....how small would I look? Be Honest! Would I look like a sick High School student? Just curious. I've never been single digits before. I believe my lowest was about 12% and I still had love handles!

I've got about 3 1/2 weeks left to put on some muscle but at the rate I'm adding right now I don't expect to add more than a few lbs.

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## gbrice75

> I don't know specifically what advise GB gave you but I think you might be taking it out of context. If you're eating a 500 calorie excess everyday then those 500 cals are going to be stored somewhere, whether it be new muscle or fat stores or both. *It may take time to notice the changes in the mirror* but excess calories eaten consistently ED will add weight and be stored. If not, then you've underestimated your maintenance calories or your energy expenditure.


^^ this. My point to GGH was that the physical manifestations of changing one's aren't immediate. I believe his question to me was along the lines of "how long do you wait before deciding to make adjustments". But as Sgt. said, if you're eating over your maintenance, rest assured those excess calories are going somewhere, and you will eventually see the results. 




> Let's say I were to drop to 9% overnight right now....how small would I look? Be Honest! Would I look like a sick High School student? Just curious. I've never been single digits before. I believe my lowest was about 12% and I still had love handles!


First, I have to say in all fairness that I cannot see your last pic for some reason, so I can only comment based on the first 3. With that said, we're all honest here, right? If you cut down to 9%, yea, I think you'd look pretty small. When I cut down to roughly 9% and was sitting at 177lbs (i'm 5'11), I looked pretty damn small IMO, and I was carrying more mass than you in these pics (no offense of course). In my avy as well as the pics in my thread you just commented on, I was around 193lbs and still at roughly 9%. As you can see, I was STILL pretty small. It takes a long time to build a big physique bro, and some of us never will (I'm one of them) as our genetics play a huge role in how far we can go. 

I'm not telling you this to discourage you; quite the contrary. Maybe lean and cut is your look. I'm starting to realize it's what i'm going to have to be happy with. Sure I want to be huge, but I get fat trying - yet I KNOW I can cut and get pretty lean. Also remember that most of those guys you see that look 'big' in their shirts are usually fat fvcks that would never look good at the beach. Take off your shirt with your lean cut physique and I guarantee you'll look better than them any day of the week. Hope this helps.

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## slfmade

> ^^ this. My point to GGH was that the physical manifestations of changing one's aren't immediate. I believe his question to me was along the lines of "how long do you wait before deciding to make adjustments". But as Sgt. said, if you're eating over your maintenance, rest assured those excess calories are going somewhere, and you will eventually see the results. 
> 
> 
> 
> First, I have to say in all fairness that I cannot see your last pic for some reason, so I can only comment based on the first 3. With that said, we're all honest here, right? If you cut down to 9%, yea, I think you'd look pretty small. When I cut down to roughly 9% and was sitting at 177lbs (i'm 5'11), I looked pretty damn small IMO, and I was carrying more mass than you in these pics (no offense of course). In my avy as well as the pics in my thread you just commented on, I was around 193lbs and still at roughly 9%. As you can see, I was STILL pretty small. It takes a long time to build a big physique bro, and some of us never will (I'm one of them) as our genetics play a huge role in how far we can go. 
> 
> I'm not telling you this to discourage you; quite the contrary. Maybe lean and cut is your look. I'm starting to realize it's what i'm going to have to be happy with. Sure I want to be huge, but I get fat trying - yet I KNOW I can cut and get pretty lean. Also remember that most of those guys you see that look 'big' in their shirts are usually fat fvcks that would never look good at the beach. Take off your shirt with your lean cut physique and I guarantee you'll look better than them any day of the week. Hope this helps.


I've never wanted to be Huge. Think "Men's Health" guy, NOT "Muscle Mag" guy. I know we here it all the time and it's kind of gay, but I'm looking for that Brad Pitt/Ryan Reynolds physique. My goal was originally 5'9 180lbs in Single Digit BF. I know this won't happen this go around...maybe in a years time. 

The urge to go the aas route has been pretty strong, but I know there's really no need to go there with my goals. I know some hard work will get me there it'll just take a bit more time.

I guess we'll see what happens in the next 3 1/2 weeks and then I'll cut. If I'm small....then fvck it! I'll start a true bulk in October and run it for 16 weeks and see what happens. It would probably be better anyway. I remember you first telling me to cut first then bulk in the beginning. This will give me the chance to do just that.

For now......I just want these ****in love handles GONE!!!!!!!!!!

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## gbrice75

> I've never wanted to be Huge. Think "Men's Health" guy, NOT "Muscle Mag" guy. I know we here it all the time and it's kind of gay, but I'm looking for that Brad Pitt/Ryan Reynolds physique.


lol, no worries - that may very well be the look for you. It's not what I was going for, but I may have to accept that it's the best I can do naturally. 




> My goal was originally 5'9 180lbs in Single Digit BF. I know this won't happen this go around...maybe in a years time.


Forgive me for not remembering, but what are your current stats? How far off are you from this goal?




> The urge to go the aas route has been pretty strong, but I know there's really no need to go there with my goals. I know some hard work will get me there it'll just take a bit more time.


Definitely not needed for your goals, or from where you're currently at. You have plenty you can do naturally before even thinking about it IMO.




> I guess we'll see what happens in the next 3 1/2 weeks and then I'll cut. If I'm small....then fvck it! I'll start a true bulk in October and run it for 16 weeks and see what happens. It would probably be better anyway. I remember you first telling me to cut first then bulk in the beginning. This will give me the chance to do just that.


Just being realistic here, but don't expect much in 3.5 weeks - that's NOTHING. It generally takes anywhere from 3 to 5 years to build a really solid muscular foundation, so keep that in mind when setting your goals. Which reminds me, I need to PM you about something...




> For now......I just want these ****in love handles GONE!!!!!!!!!!


My God, me too... I am feeling absolutely disgusting lately... I wanna hack them off with a machete!!

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## slfmade

> Forgive me for not remembering, but what are your current stats? How far off are you from this goal?
> 
> *Well right now I'm 185lb and I'm not sure of my BF%. You guys guessed me at about 15-16% when I started. I've obviously put on some LBM and dropped some BF since then.*
> 
> 
> Definitely not needed for your goals, or from where you're currently at. You have plenty you can do naturally before even thinking about it IMO.
> 
> *Yeah I know. Patience just isn't a virtue that I've ever had. I did however date a girl named patience once!!! LOL*
> 
> ...


See Bolds

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## slfmade

Where you at Sgt???? I see you looking at this thread but not typing...Feed me some wisdom! LOL

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## Standby

to be honest "men's health guy" is still something many multi cyclers in the member pic forum still have not reached. it still takes a ton of work. keep workin

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## slfmade

This would be my ideal physique: Not gonna happen this summer obviously, buy maybe with a lot of hard work my next summer? Naturally?


Goals by slfmade, on Flickr

What's your vote?

A. Very Possible
B. Not Even a chance of this happening
C. Possible but not very likely

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## slfmade

Gotta go to the gym in about an hour, but today I hurt my back somehow. Well, it's not even really my back, it's a really sharp pain around my sacrum. The pain is coming more from the sides of my sacrum vs the top where you would normally expect a lower back injury. I think I should still be able to do my squats if I make sure I'm keeping my back straight but SLDL are out of the question because I can't bend over without feeling like somebody is stabbing me.

Are there any other compound movements that I can substitute for SLDL. I'm fine as long as I don't bend over.

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## Sgt. Hartman

> Where you at Sgt???? I see you looking at this thread but not typing...Feed me some wisdom! LOL


Your Brad Pitt/Ryan Reynolds comment made me laugh. Not because it's a comical goal but b/c that's exactly what I used to want. I had almost forgotten that goal is how I got started with all this - the point is your goals will constantly change and you will never be satisfied. You might be happy with the way you look but you'll always want to be a little leaner or a little bigger. I know when I get relatively lean I feel skinny and puny and worry over losing muscle and when I'm gaining I feel like a lard ass and worry about gaining too much fat. The point is though to stay focused and if you're gaining then gain as much lean tissue as you can, and when you're cutting lose as much fat as you can and don't let the scale discourage you. Obviously you should still adjust your diet based on results but hopefully you get my point. 

I think you should up you calories on non-training days if you're not gaining as much muscle as you'd like and save the getting rid of your love handles for when you cut. It's been 4 weeks and you've gained 5.5lbs AND YOU LOOK LEANER. Up your cals and if you gain fat then you can readjust your diet but you should try to make the most of gaining while you can. If you don't then you'll regret it when you get to single digits.

As far as what you would look like at 9%? Yeah you're probably gonna look and feel a little small but with xyz amount of LBM I would much rather be at 9% than 12%. Having fat covering your muscles doesn't make anyone's physique look any better. And to be honest you'll probably get more compliments/attention if you're shredded and vascular and actually appear to have more LBM the leaner you are.

I don't see why you're so worried about going from 12% to 9% anyway. With the dedication you've shown so far I think you can do it relatively easily.

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## slfmade

> I don't see why you're so worried about going from 12% to 9% anyway. With the dedication you've shown so far I think you can do it relatively easily.


Thanks for that....it means a lot. The one thing I have going for me that I don't question is my dedication. I just wanta make sure I'm doing the correct things with my dedication. 

I don't think I'm at 12% right now though??? When I started this 4 weeks ago...you guys guessed me at 15-16%. I don't know what I'm at now, but I would be SHOCKED to here that I'm 12%. I can tell I've lost BF so if I assume I'm at 14% now...that's still 5% bodyfat I need to lose in 10 weeks after I start my cut. I know you guys are saying this is possible, but I've NEVER been that low and I feel like it's gonna be VERY hard to do. Everybody always talks about how hard it is to get into single digits.

I know we've talked about another member that's done it, but wasn't that with a little extra help from aas?

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## Sgt. Hartman

Answer B. Check your pm in a minute.

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## slfmade

> Answer B. Check your pm in a minute.


Now you've confused me. You just said answer B - Which was "not a chance of me hitting my goal in a year" then you just sent me the PM which contradicts answer B. :Hmmmm:

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## Sgt. Hartman

Not even close to the pic you asked about. I wish.

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## slfmade

> Not even close to the pic you asked about. I wish.


Gotcha. Why to much LBM or really low BF? What do you think his BF% is? 6%?

I guess I'm just gonna have to prove you wrong then? LOL

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## slfmade

Reason I ask is...He doesn't look that big. Just really cut. Seems like if I put on another 10-15lbs, cut down to 6-8% bf, and pour some baby oil all over myself....well I feel like I would be there. Probably just my lack of experience talking.

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## Sgt. Hartman

No offense, but most people are really surprised how little LBM they actually have when they get that lean.

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## slfmade

Gotcha...makes sense!

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## gonnagethuge

> I don't know specifically what advise GB gave you but I think you might be taking it out of context. If you're eating a 500 calorie excess everyday then those 500 cals are going to be stored somewhere, whether it be new muscle or fat stores or both. It may take time to notice the changes in the mirror but excess calories eaten consistently ED will add weight and be stored. If not, then you've underestimated your maintenance calories or your energy expenditure.
> 
> Self, if you were to change any part of your diet then IMO it would be to eat at the same caloric excess everyday, whether it's a work out day or not. Maybe you could use those extra cals on your off days to repair (ie. grow new tissue and gain weight).


Hey sgt. Hows it going? My question really was how long should one give a nee diet/regime before realising that no further measurable gains are bein made on the current plan. This would be in the form of weight or lbm gain or phsical appearance improvements. Really i was wondering how long one should 'stick'rather than jumpong the gun increasing calories and then sonewhere down the line maybe adding extra fat. I believe gbs advice was sinply that results cannot be acieved immediately and should be given at least a good 4-6 weeks to manifest. I believe this perhaps also applied to slf's situation given that he is only 4 weeks in Which i dont think is actually that long to be seeing any major changes. I believed that it perhaps shouldnt stress him out as the results of the hard work and diet may yet be to physically manifest in terms of increased mass. My apologies if i put this across incorrectly.

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## slfmade

This morning I got to thinking about this cut I'll start in 3 weeks from Monday. I'm curious....could a person carb cycle an "IF" diet? Would there be any reason not to?

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## slfmade

Just finished Week 5 workout. 3 weeks to go before cut. I'll be looking forward to switching it up a bit. My diet should be solid by the time I start but I'm gonna need some help with my training program.

Anybody wanta be my remote trainer??? I'm dedicated and I'll give you all the credit!

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## Standby

> No offense, but most people are really surprised how little LBM they actually have when they get that lean.


yep this lmao i thought id look better as i got leaner but i just see how small i really am lmao

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## slfmade

So Monday weigh in: Last Week 185lbs... This week 186lbs

Increased 1lb from last week. That's a total increase of 6.5lbs in 5 weeks all while reducing 2-3% bodyfat. If I can keep this up for the next 3 weeks I'll finish my Lean Bulk at about 189-190 at 12-13% bodyfat. Fingers crossed!

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## slfmade

So I'm a little bummed out today. Last night I missed my first workout since November. I hurt my back last week, but until last night have been working through it. I've been doing leg press instead of squats and leg curls instead of SLDL. At first it just seemed like a little tweak that was kind of annoying. The pains in my lower back (specifically around my sacrum)has been getting worse and worse by the day. Sitting, Standing, and even laying down flat on back seems to just make it worse. The only time I find relief is when I'm laying on my side with a pillow between my legs.

I'm hopefully going to be able to make an appointment with a chiropractor tomorrow to get some xrays done. I would rather go to a doctor, but the chiropractor visits are free so I'm gonna do it that way at least for the free xrays first and then go to a doctor if the xrays show something bad.

The pain is bad but this dissapointment that I missed a workout is what's getting to me the most!

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## --->>405<<---

Back pain sux.. Wheres the sacrum? I had some back issues a few weeks ago.. Hopefully u just pulld a muscle  :Smilie:

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## slfmade

> Back pain sux.. *Wheres the sacrum?* I had some back issues a few weeks ago.. Hopefully u just pulld a muscle


At the base of the spine. It's that big triangular shaped bone between your last vertebrae and butt crack.

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## --->>405<<---

do u recall how u did it? also how is it today?

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## slfmade

Well, about 5 years ago I was carrying one of those big ass sofa's with 3 recliners in it. I was the stronger one so I was the guy walking backwards. I slipped and fell down on my rear with all the weight of the sofa coming down with me. As soon as it happened my legs went numb. I didn't have any insurance so I didn't go to the doctor. I just stayed at home for about 2 weeks and dealt with it the best I could. Since then my back has always been bad, but I've had no real injuries that have hurt like this since the original injury.

Last week when I hurt it I was just bending over and had a sharp pain. I didn't think it was a big deal but every day it has been getting worse. When I sit it feels like gravity is jamming my lower lumbar down with 500lbs of force straight into my sacrum. In the morning it isn't to bad, but by the end of the day it's close to unbearable. Trying to get an appointment with the chiropractor as we speak. One way or another I'm working out tonight...even if it's just upper body I'm gonna hit it hard. I'll keep you guys updated!

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## --->>405<<---

dang man that mustve sucked and sounds like it still sucks.. hope u feel better  :Smilie:  i hate injuries ...

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## slfmade

> dang man that mustve sucked and sounds like it still sucks.. hope u feel better  i hate injuries ...


I guess I'll know shortly. My appointment is in about 3 hours!

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## slfmade

So I just got back from the appointment with my chiropractor. He took xrays and it's not good. He told me I would eventually need surgery. Basically the disc between S1 and L5 is no longer there and it's just bone on bone. He said this was the worst he's ever seen. He can give bi-weekly adjustments to alleviate the pain and I do feel better now, but he said without surgery I would need to see a chiropractor twice a week for the rest of my life. He said I should avoid squats or anything that puts pressure straight down on my spine.

So the plan is to go get some insurance and go see a doctor within the next few months.

In the meantime what would be the next best thing to squats for legs. I can't do deadlifts for the next several weeks either. Legpress, leg ext, leg curl? What would be a good leg routine?

Thanks

----------


## --->>405<<---

Sorry to hear bro.. At least he didnt say u couldnt lift until u had surgery... B]1leg squats with DB's[/B] r butt kickers.. Get some straps... Tatll get the weight off ur shoulders and ur back  :Smilie:  

I think leg press may push down on the area, esp heavy ones.. Since ud be sitting in the position u pretty much landed in.. When u fell...

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> So I just got back from the appointment with my chiropractor. He took xrays and it's not good. He told me I would eventually need surgery. Basically the disc between S1 and L5 is no longer there and it's just bone on bone. He said this was the worst he's ever seen. He can give bi-weekly adjustments to alleviate the pain and I do feel better now, but he said without surgery I would need to see a chiropractor twice a week for the rest of my life. He said I should avoid squats or anything that puts pressure straight down on my spine.
> 
> So the plan is to go get some insurance and go see a doctor within the next few months.
> 
> In the meantime what would be the next best thing to squats for legs. I can't do deadlifts for the next several weeks either. Legpress, leg ext, leg curl? What would be a good leg routine?
> 
> Thanks


Sounds all too familiar to me. 

Several years ago I broke my sacrum and my ileum (basically the rear portion of the pelvis and the hip). They both healed fine but depending on who I was talking to at the time (ER, MD, orthopedic, chiropractor) I also had a ruptured/herniated/bulging L4 and L5. I've had many x-rays and MRI's at different times and I was told different things as far as what I should do. Many times I was told, like you, that I had bone on bone and that surgery was the only solution. 

I opted to not have surgery b/c I knew too many people that had back surgery that still had debilitating pain even after surgery. Right after the injury I went to the chiropractor for about 6 months straight and felt pretty good. But what I learned there is what's kept me from having surgery. 

Keep your hip flexors stretched and loose, stretch them hard everyday and avoid ab exercises that tighten or shorten them. Do "press ups" as often as you possibly can. It's just a push up but keep your pelvis on the ground. This will elongate and put the curvature back in your spine so even if there's no disc there, the spine will be elongated and avoid the bone on bone feeling that causes so much pain. Keep your abs in shape, work them hard so they will take the strain off of your back muscles throughout the course of the day as far as just keeping you upright. Learn all the different back stretches to keep your back muscles from spasming b/c for me, that is the worst part in that the muscles overcompensate for the compression of the disc which results in back spasms that become unbearable. 

I can still do squats, although I don't really go heavy or push it. High intensity leg press is a great alternate and if doing both legs together bothers you then do single leg. To this day i can't do SLDL, so I do back extensions and standing and prone leg curls instead. Upping the intensity by doing drop sets or rest-pause or forced reps and negatives can make up for not doing the compound movements IMO. I can still do DL and even go pretty heavy as long as I keep the arch in my back and don't flatten my back out at the bottom of the lift.

I still have a couple times a year where I have to spend a few days a week at the chiropractor for 4 or 6 weeks at a time when I do something to really aggravate it (like trying to land a flip on a wakeboard this summer  :Smilie: ) but for the most part, I feel pretty normal. 

I'm not telling you to not have surgery, just saying some things that have prolonged or kept me from having surgery so far. Obviously you should get some more opinions and listen to the professional advise that you're given. Maybe a few of these things and getting adjusted at the chiropractor will at least get you through the next several weeks that you want to cut down on your BF.

----------


## slfmade

^^^Thankss for all your input guys. I read this when you posted and have incorporated it into my routine. More on that in the next post. I agree with you Sgt about not just jumping into surgery. I'm gonna do everything else first before I resort to that. I'm seeing the chiropractor 2 days a week now, and I'm gonna make an appointment with a rolfer next week because those guys can do god-like things to heal the body from a structural standpoint. If a year down the road I'm still having issues and I've had several doctors tell me surgery is the only option then I'll consider it.

Thanks again

----------


## slfmade

Okay status update: 7 weeks down 1 to go.

I did my measurements on Monday but got sidetracked and never posted them. I wasn't happy with my gains to I did as SGT told me week to do weeks ago and bumped my calories on non-lift days. We'll see this Monday if it helped. It'll only be for 2 weeks so I don't expect to see huge results, but it'll give me an idea for future lean bulks on what my body can handle without gaining fat.

I also ramped up the intensity on the last set of each exercise in my current routine with some rest pause and negatives. At the end of each workout I've also added on 1 extra exercise for each target area that I feel are lacking which is pretty much everything except for legs.

I'm working on a new routine and diet for my cut which starts in 10 days. I put in my order for clen , keto, and also got some MT2. I've never liked needles but I'm kind of excited about pinning for some reason. LOL

Anyway, Here were my measurements from this last monday (6 weeks in).

Weight = 186.5 (1.5lb increase from 4 weeks in, 7lb increase from starting weight)

Neck = 16.5" (increase 1/2 inch from previous measurements)
Chest = 42" (same as previous)
Arms = 15 5/8 (up from 15.5)
Waist = 33 1/4 (down 1/4" from previous)
Leg = 24.5 (Up 1/4" from previous)
Calf = 16.5 (Up 1/4" from previous)

I'm gonna try to have this diet and workout plan up by Monday...Hopefully!

----------


## gearbox

dude I am just not seeing this. I should be banned from our friendship. I just read over every post. sigh....there was a lot. I forgot to chime back in and saw from sgt hartman how ripped on I got from shaving my arm pits. lol...I do at times..

anyways back to the thread. I agree with upping the calories a little bit. A base mine on how I feel each day. Congrats on your progress bro, I will be watching now!!!
better late then never!

----------


## Back In Black

Ha ha, I shave my pits too, have done for years!

Good work slf, keep going man!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Okay status update: 7 weeks down 1 to go.
> 
> I did my measurements on Monday but got sidetracked and never posted them. I wasn't happy with my gains to I did as SGT told me week to do weeks ago and bumped my calories on non-lift days. We'll see this Monday if it helped. It'll only be for 2 weeks so I don't expect to see huge results, but it'll give me an idea for future lean bulks on what my body can handle without gaining fat.
> 
> I also ramped up the intensity on the last set of each exercise in my current routine with some rest pause and negatives. At the end of each workout I've also added on 1 extra exercise for each target area that I feel are lacking which is pretty much everything except for legs.
> 
> I'm working on a new routine and diet for my cut which starts in 10 days. I put in my order for clen , keto, and also got some MT2. I've never liked needles but I'm kind of excited about pinning for some reason. LOL
> 
> Anyway, Here were my measurements from this last monday (6 weeks in).
> ...


thats funny slf.. i dont know what my neck measurement is but my chest is 42 and legs 24.. arms 16.5 waist 34.. im 5'9" and weighed 187 this am.. so were pretty close...

----------


## BrownGirl

> Okay status update: 7 weeks down 1 to go.
> 
> I did my measurements on Monday but got sidetracked and never posted them. I wasn't happy with my gains to I did as SGT told me week to do weeks ago and bumped my calories on non-lift days. We'll see this Monday if it helped. It'll only be for 2 weeks so I don't expect to see huge results, but it'll give me an idea for future lean bulks on what my body can handle without gaining fat.
> 
> I also ramped up the intensity on the last set of each exercise in my current routine with some rest pause and negatives. At the end of each workout I've also added on 1 extra exercise for each target area that I feel are lacking which is pretty much everything except for legs.
> 
> I'm working on a new routine and diet for my cut which starts in 10 days. I put in my order for clen , keto, and also got some MT2. I've never liked needles but I'm kind of excited about pinning for some reason. LOL
> 
> Anyway, Here were my measurements from this last monday (6 weeks in).
> ...




Awesome job honey!  :Smilie:  I'm so proud of you...

----------


## slfmade

> thats funny slf.. i dont know what my neck measurement is but my chest is 42 and legs 24.. arms 16.5 waist 34.. im 5'9" and weighed 187 this am.. so were pretty close...


Yeah it seems close on paper, but I'm putting myself at 12-13%BF and you at 10-11% bodyfat and that makes a huge difference in looks. I can wait until I hit single digits!

Even though this is all slow I'm very happy with my overall results. Starting last March I've went from 233lb down to 172 on my own with diet and cardio alone. Then I joined this forum, started lifting again, andbulked to 179.5 where I started this lean bulk. In the last 7 Weeks I've added 7lb while dropping bodyfat. So in less than 11 months I've went from 233lbs at 25+% BF down to 186.5 lbs at 12-13%. I've done this 100% natural...no clen , no stims, no aas. Just diet, cardio, and training.

I know others have got results faster, but considering the first 8 months of this; before I joined this forum, I didn't have a clue what I was doing...I think I've done well.

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ i cant wait til single digits either  :Smilie:  as far as quikness of results.. hey man thats over and dun with.. the important thing is NOW  :Smilie:  thats great uve gone from mid 20s down to 12%! its a challenge.. i know ive dun it  :Smilie:  

its funny how ive noticed guys tend to hang around the 20-25% range when we just eat whatever and sit on our butts.. being lean is an awesome feeling.. one of my favorite things to do is go stand in front of the mirror first thing in the morning naked LOL !!

----------


## slfmade

> ^^ i cant wait til single digits either  as far as quikness of results.. hey man thats over and dun with.. the important thing is NOW  thats great uve gone from mid 20s down to 12%! its a challenge.. i know ive dun it  
> 
> its funny how ive noticed guys tend to hang around the 20-25% range when we just eat whatever and sit on our butts.. being lean is an awesome feeling.. one of my favorite things to do is go stand in front of the mirror first thing in the morning naked LOL !!


LOL - Yeah I spend a good 5 min there every morning. This time last year I tried to avoid mirrors at all cost. Funny how things change.

----------


## Bertuzzi

Just scanned this thread and officially subscribed. I gotta catch up to all you guys.... (comeon fatty!)  :Smilie:

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> ^^ i cant wait til single digits either  as far as quikness of results.. hey man thats over and dun with.. the important thing is NOW  thats great uve gone from mid 20s down to 12%! its a challenge.. i know ive dun it  
> 
> its funny how ive noticed guys tend to hang around the 20-25% range when we just eat whatever and sit on our butts.. being lean is an awesome feeling.. one of my favorite things to do is go *stand in front of the mirror first thing in the morning naked LOL* !!





> LOL -* Yeah I spend a good 5 min there every morning*. This time last year I tried to avoid mirrors at all cost. Funny how things change.


I think you two should make plans to do this together every morning. It could be very motivating for you guys to stand naked in front of the mirror together for 5 minutes every morning. 

If logistics are a problem, maybe you could just Skype?

----------


## Back In Black

> i think you two should make plans to do this together every morning. It could be very motivating for you guys to stand naked in front of the mirror together for 5 minutes every morning. 
> 
> If logistics are a problem, maybe you could just skype?


pmfp!!!

----------


## Bertuzzi

> I think you two should make plans to do this together every morning. It could be very motivating for you guys to stand naked in front of the mirror together for 5 minutes every morning. 
> 
> If logistics are a problem, maybe you could just Skype?


 :Haha:  Nice!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I think you two should make plans to do this together every morning. It could be very motivating for you guys to stand naked in front of the mirror together for 5 minutes every morning. 
> 
> If logistics are a problem, maybe you could just Skype?


LOL... sarge if u say u dont do it too ur lyin man.. the exact thing that drives us to get in shape is the exact thing that puts us in front of the mirror naked my man! LOL  :Wink:

----------


## Bertuzzi

> LOL... sarge if u say u dont do it too ur lyin man.. the exact thing that drives us to get in shape is the exact thing that puts us in front of the mirror naked my man! LOL


I'll admit to it.... I use to do it all the time when I was in shape... my GF always laughed at me

----------


## BrownGirl

Hahaha don't we all do that? Stand in front of the mirror I mean...

----------


## slfmade

SGT...You're just jealous that you can't admire yourself when you stand in front of the mirror. I'm not talking physique either...I'm talking below the waist!!! hehehehe

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

^^Low blow lol. Steroids don't really make your dick shrink dude, they make it bigger.  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

sarge prob drives a Lamborghini to compensate LOL .. i have a Vespa scooter... LOL

----------


## slfmade

> ^^Low blow lol. *Steroids don't really make your dick shrink dude, they make it bigger.*


Is that the reason you started doing gear to begin with!!!!???? hehehehe I'm on a roll today! lol

----------


## slfmade

What's funny is that SGT called my out yesterday in my girls log for not updating my own log and when I finally do all you've got to talk about is being naked and penis size...LOL

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

LMAO. Im not the one bringing up nakedness and penis size. That was you and 405 who seem to have a morning ritual of admiring god knows what in the mirror every morning. 

While I am quite pleased with what God has endowed me with I know very well what it looks like and don't have to look at it for 5 min every morning to be reminded.

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL.. it takes me that long just to take it all in sarge  :Wink:  and slf is the one who said 5minutes.. i take longer.. u know flexing and stuff LMAO!!..

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

So I guess it takes slf 5 min to find something worthy of admiring?

----------


## slfmade

> So I guess it takes slf 5 min to find something worthy of admiring?


Well, by the time I make my hair pretty and find the right lighting...yeah. LOL

----------


## --->>405<<---

hey slf i havent dun anything about the furniture yet.. but im thinking a sectional made of cloth (im over leather..not as comfy) and very deep.. like as deep as i can get.. would prefer not to go over $3000 for it.. i want it to be one i can have for several years thats gonna take good wear from my lazy butt laying on it every nite as well as falling asleep on it.. either L shaped or like a U shape but straight not curved.. with right angles.. and not very tall.. and id prefer cushions not pillows.. it could have 2 built in recliners and a chaise .. and it could come with an oversized ottoman  :Smilie:  unsure of color.. prob some version of beige type.. neutral color ..

----------


## slfmade

> hey slf i havent dun anything about the furniture yet.. but im thinking a sectional made of cloth (im over leather..not as comfy) and very deep.. like as deep as i can get.. would prefer not to go over $3000 for it.. i want it to be one i can have for several years thats gonna take good wear from my lazy butt laying on it every nite as well as falling asleep on it.. either L shaped or like a U shape but straight not curved.. with right angles.. and not very tall.. and id prefer cushions not pillows.. it could have 2 built in recliners and a chaise .. and it could come with an oversized ottoman  unsure of color.. prob some version of beige type.. neutral color ..


Good Deal. I've got a crazy busy week, but I'll start working on it and have some options to you by the end of the week.

----------


## slfmade

So Last week I wasn't gaining like I was hoping so I increased calories on my non-lift days. The increase was in carbs ONLY! Somehow I LOST 2lbs. How the fvck did that happen??? NOT HAPPY!!! I increase the intensity of my training routine a bit, but nothing to cause me to drop like this!

TDEE is 2600
Lift days = 3300 calories
Non Lift = 2800 Calories

I'm hoping it's just a fluke, but this is my last week of lean bulk so I'm hoping I get it all back this week!

----------


## slfmade

On a positive note: I noticed my muscles seemed much fuller than usual. My abs where still nice and tight but my arms and chest seems a lot more full that they usually do. That was pretty nice!

----------


## -KJ-

Good Job slf... Keep going man. 
Ive had that on my cut also. Gained 2lb after a week but when I weighed myself the next day was down so its just one of those things.

----------


## Back In Black

Yeah, you'd rather lose 2lbs and look/feel bigger than gain 2lbs and it blur what you have. If you feel any better I lost 2lbs since yesterday, no dietary changes!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

diets can do weird stuff sometimes.. i know on my cut i had the most fatloss and LBM growth on Thanksgiving week! 3cheat meals that week.. serious ones too.. go figure  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Good Deal. I've got a crazy busy week, but I'll start working on it and have some options to you by the end of the week.


cool.. take ur time.. it wont be til i get bak from cruise before i buy one anyways.. and maybe june.. i have a front yard to sod first .. houses LOL... neverending bills  :Smilie:

----------


## slfmade

So tomorrow will conclude my 8 weeks of my current workout routine. For those that haven't been following, I've been doing a fullbody superset routine 3 days a week. Monday I start my 10 week cut and new routine.

My plan was to jump straight into a HIT, but the last couple days I've been questioning this a little. Most people say to not run a High Intensity training routine for longer than 6 weeks. So my question is...should I jump straight to HIT or do something else for the next 4 weeks and do HIT the last 6 weeks. Does it make a difference?

Whatever it is...I'm just so glad that I'm done with full body routines after tomorrow!!!!

Also...tonight will be my first ever injection of anything (MT2). It's just a 29g insulin pin so no big deal, but it's new to me. : )

----------


## --->>405<<---

> So tomorrow will conclude my 8 weeks of my current workout routine. For those that haven't been following, I've been doing a fullbody superset routine 3 days a week. Monday I start my 10 week cut and new routine.
> 
> My plan was to jump straight into a HIT, but the last couple days I've been questioning this a little. Most people say to not run a High Intensity training routine for longer than 6 weeks. So my question is...should I jump straight to HIT or do something else for the next 4 weeks and do HIT the last 6 weeks. Does it make a difference?
> 
> Whatever it is...I'm just so glad that I'm done with full body routines after tomorrow!!!!
> 
> Also...tonight will be my *first ever injection of anything* (MT2). It's just a 29g insulin pin so no big deal, but it's new to me. : )


Yeh self i remember mine  :Smilie:  its interesting.. And fun! I think ull enjoy it.. Mine was with a 25g 1" into quad.. Also id like to mention i startd ECA today.. Man its the bomb for combating hunger.. Today was no carb day #1 of the week.. No problem dude..  :Smilie:

----------


## hex

> Also...tonight will be my first ever injection of anything (MT2). It's just a 29g insulin pin so no big deal, but it's new to me. : )


why the shot of insulin if you dont mind my asking? i may just be missing something here

----------


## slfmade

> why the shot of insulin if you dont mind my asking? i may just be missing something here


LOL - I guess I should've clarified it. I'm not pinning insulin ...I'm using an insulin syringe to pin MT2(tanning peptide).

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> Yeh self i remember mine  its interesting.. And fun! I think ull enjoy it.. Mine was with a 25g 1" into quad.. Also id like to mention i startd ECA today.. Man its the bomb for combating hunger.. Today was no carb day #1 of the week.. No problem dude..


I love ECA too. I'm gonna run it 3 times a day when i start cutting in the spring. 

What are you taking for the ephedra?

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> So tomorrow will conclude my 8 weeks of my current workout routine. For those that haven't been following, I've been doing a fullbody superset routine 3 days a week. Monday I start my 10 week cut and new routine.
> 
> My plan was to jump straight into a HIT, but the last couple days I've been questioning this a little. Most people say to not run a High Intensity training routine for longer than 6 weeks. So my question is...should I jump straight to HIT or do something else for the next 4 weeks and do HIT the last 6 weeks. Does it make a difference?
> 
> Whatever it is...I'm just so glad that I'm done with full body routines after tomorrow!!!!
> 
> Also...tonight will be my first ever injection of anything (MT2). It's just a 29g insulin pin so no big deal, but it's new to me. : )


You're probably gonna be disappointed. You don't even really feel a slin pin.  :Frown:

----------


## slfmade

> You're probably gonna be disappointed. You don't even really feel a slin pin.


You're probably right.

Can you give me your input on my main question about the workout?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I love ECA too. I'm gonna run it 3 times a day when i start cutting in the spring. 
> 
> [B]What are you taking for the ephedra?


[/B

Primatene..

----------


## slfmade

Glad to hear the ECA is working for you 405! How are the sides treating you?

----------


## slfmade

So I just did my first injection about 15 min ago. Super Easy. NO PAIN! I could be going crazy but I could swear I'm feeling the sides already. lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Glad to hear the ECA is working for you 405! How are the sides treating you?


Funny.. Being in my 4th year of sobriety its more than im used to lately but tolerable  :Wink:

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> So I just did my first injection about 15 min ago. Super Easy. NO PAIN! I could be going crazy but I could swear I'm feeling the sides already. lol


You notice any increased libido sides?

----------


## slfmade

> You notice any increased libido sides?


No...just a little facial flushing. I only did 250mcg last night. Doing 500mcg tonight. It seems that's the dose where most people start experiencing increased libido. I sure hope I get the libido side. I've had shit for libido for the last 2-3 years. Browngirl's gonna leave me if this doesn't work!!! LOL....If that doesn't work I guess there's always test!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> No...just a little facial flushing. I only did 250mcg last night. Doing 500mcg tonight. It seems that's the dose where most people start experiencing increased libido. I sure hope I get the libido side. I've had shit for libido for the last 2-3 years. Browngirl's gonna leave me if this doesn't work!!! LOL....If that doesn't work I guess *there's always test*!!!!


i know thats rite  :Wink:

----------


## slfmade

So I finally got my diet together. I wanted to get your thoughts. It's be a carb cycle ran in a IF style. Let me know what you think I'll be starting Monday.

*Stats:*
I'll be 30 in 2 months
187.5lbs
5'9
~12% BF
TDEE = ~2650
Goals. Maintain as much LBM as possible and drop to ~8% bodyfat in 10 weeks

*Schedule:*
Mon. Lift Day - Legs - No cardio - MOD CARB DAY
Tues Lift Day + Fasted A.M. Cardio - MOD CARB DAY
Wed. Lift Day + Fasted A.M. Cardio - MOD CARB DAY
Thurs. NON-Lift/Fasted A.M. Cardio ONLY - LOW CARB DAY
Fri. Lift Day + Fasted A.M. Cardio - LOW CARB DAY
Sat. NON-Lift/Fasted A.M. Cardio ONLY - LOW CARB DAY
Sun. OFF DAY - HIGH CARB DAY

*DAILY ROUTINE:*
8:00-9:00 a.m. Fasted a.m. LIC Cardio (BCAA ONLY) Supplement 1/2 dose clen 
12:00 Meal 1
3:00 Meal 2 (pre-workout) Supplement 1/2 dose clen
4:30 - 5:30 (workout)
6:00 Meal 3 (Post workout) 
8:00 Supplement Keto
10:00 - 11:00 Go to Sleep

High Carb Day:
*Meal 1:*
8 egg whites - Scrambled w/onions, peppers, tomatoes
Reduced fat - Mexi Blend Cheese
3/4 Cup Oats w/1/2 Cup Milk (eaten like a cereal)
602.4 - 8/54.5/78

*Meal 2*
4oz Chicken and 4 oz 96/4 Ground Beef
Onions, peppers, tomatoes
1 1/2 Cup Brown Rice
1/2 Reduced Fat Cheese
ON Pro Complex Shake
1002 - 18/77.5/132.5

*Meal 3*
Shake - 1/2 ON Casien, 1/2 ON Pro Complex
4oz 96/4 Ground Beef
3/4 Cup Brown Rice
Veggies
3/4 Cup Oats
1/2 Skim Milk
Sugar Free imitation Honey
906 - 12/106.25/93.25

*Total - 2510 - 38/239/303*

Moderate Carb Day
*Meal 1:*
8 egg whites - Scrambled w/onions, peppers, tomatoes
Reduced fat - Mexi Blend Cheese
3/4 Cup Oats w/1/2 Cup Milk (eaten like a cereal)
602.4 - 8/54.5/78

*Meal 2:*
2 Scoop Pro Complex
Brown Rice 3/4 cups
4 Oz 96/4 Ground Beef
Veggies
1/2 cup cheese
726 - 14/44/106

*Meal 3:*
4 oz Chicken, 4 Oz 96/4 Ground Beef
Onions,Peppers,Tomatos
Brown Rice 3/4 cups
Shake - 1/2 ON Casien, 1/2 ON Pro Complex
1/2 cup cheese
821 - 17/44/123

*Total = 2221 - 39/143/306.6*

No/Low Carb Day:
*Meal 1:*
4 Egg Whites
Onions,Peppers,Tomatos
4 Oz 96/4 Ground Beef
1/2 cup cheese
Broccoli 3/4 Cup
1 Cup Asparagus
483 - 12.5/14.5/78.05

*Meal 2:*
2 Scoop Pro Complex
4 Oz 96/4 Ground Beef
Veggies
Broccoli 1 cup
1 Cup Asparagus
497 - 6.5/17.5/92

*Meal 3:*
Shake - 1/2 ON Casien, 1/2 ON Pro Complex
8 Oz 96/4 Ground Beef
Onions,Peppers,Tomatos
1/2 cup cheese
Broccoli 3/4 Cup
1 Cup Asparagus
748 - 18.5/18/127

*Total = 1796 - 37.5/50/297*

So what do you guys think?

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

Okay I came to your thread to be a smart ass and ask you if when your MT2 takes effect you're gonna change your screen name to BrownBoy?

But since you posted up your new plan I'll read it now and tell you what I think.

Edit: but since the only opinion you value on here is the nutritionmaster GB I'll stay quiet.

----------


## slfmade

> Okay I came to your thread to be a smart ass and ask you if when your MT2 takes effect you're gonna change your screen name to BrownBoy?
> 
> But since you posted up your new plan I'll read it now and tell you what I think.
> 
> *Edit: but since the only opinion you value on here is the nutritionmaster GB I'll stay quiet*.


I value everyones opinion that knows more than I do. And you SGT are one of those people. If you had an ...ASK SGT ANYTHING...thread; I would post asking you to come take a look as well.

So give me your damn opinion and quit being a little girl!!!! LOL

And by the way...you ignored my HIT workout question a few posts back...so get your ass in gear and help me out, or I'm gonna turn into MJCHUB and post my workout questions in 20 different threads!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

What r the cals and macros of the ON shake? That meal 2 for high carb day doesnt look like enuff food to be worth 1000cals.. Not saying its not 1000cals but seems like ud get to eat more.. Personally id prob ditch the cheese and the milk (except sunday) and use those cals on something more substantial.. Not sayin u should just sayin i would..  :Smilie:  looks pretty good though..

On my no carb days i dont have a shake.. All i have is eggs and 24oz beef and 18oz chik and 1000g broc.. 

U know in 9meals u only have 2 that dont have cheese in them? 

Sorry i prob sound like an "A- hole" LOL.. Not my intent.. Just telling u wat i think  :Smilie:  i tend to be anal.. Although how can i talk im fitting in a peanut butter and banana sandwich into my high carb day!

After reading ur above post i wanted to note i dont think i know more than u just giving my thoughts anyways  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I value everyones opinion that knows more than I do. And you SGT are one of those people. If you had an ...ASK SGT ANYTHING...thread; I would post asking you to come take a look as well.
> 
> So give me your damn opinion and quit being a little girl!!!! LOL
> 
> And by the way...you ignored my HIT workout question a few posts back...so get your ass in gear and help me out, or I'm gonna turn into *MJCHUB* and post my workout questions in 20 different threads!!!!


Dont mention him he mite show up! LOL..

----------


## slfmade

> *What r the cals and macros of the ON shake? That meal 2 for high carb day doesnt look like enuff food to be worth 1000cals.. Not saying its not 1000cals but seems like ud get to eat more..* Personally id prob ditch the cheese and the milk (except sunday) and use those cals on something more substantial.. Not sayin u should just sayin i would..  looks pretty good though..
> 
> On my no carb days i dont have a shake.. All i have is eggs and 24oz beef and 18oz chik and 1000g broc.. 
> 
> U know in 9meals u only have 2 that dont have cheese in them? 
> 
> Sorry i prob sound like an "A- hole" LOL.. Not my intent.. Just telling u wat i think  i tend to be anal.. Although how can i talk im fitting in a peanut butter and banana sandwich into my high carb day!
> 
> After reading ur above post i wanted to note i dont think i know more than u just giving my thoughts anyways


Cals in ON is 270calories. The 4oz beef and 4oz chicken in that meal is 250 cals. Brown Rice is 324cals and cheese is 160cals. Total = 1004 with the little left coming from Veggies.

I'm doing the protein shakes because it limits my fats and and fits my macros. The cheese. It taste good and fits in my daily macros well. Same with the milk.

What would be the harm if it all fit in my macros?

I value your opinion too 405. I was saying I didn't want somebody like your boy MJ or Gym coming in here and telling me how to run my diet. LOL

I might also add that these food choice are almost identical to what I've been doing for the past 8 weeks on my bulk...just smaller that the lean bulk meals.

----------


## slfmade

I'll also add that it's only a 1/2 cup milk so IMO I don't feel like it's overboard by any means - Macros for 1/2 cup skim milk are 40/0/6/4. Yes 2g of the carbs are coming from sugar, but I don't think that's too bad right?

Also macros from the reduced fat cheese for 1/2 cup are 160/7/2/18. Not that bad IMO as even with this I'm still well under my 40g of fat.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

I was just messin with you and I gotta give GB shit every once in a while - I have no idea how he has the patience to do what he does. He's the man. 

Re: HIT. I've said it before that there are varying degrees of intensity for HIT that IMO you can adjust to suit your diet and goals. Rest pause and drop sets are the way forward IMO regardless of caloric intake or goals. At a caloric deficit I wouldn't take the rest pause sets to forced reps or negatives nor would I do more than 3 or 4 max exercises per muscle group but rest pause or drop sets done to failure with minimal rest period are fine. Keep your work outs at 30 - 45 min. After doing your full body work outs for the past several weeks you should be ready for it anyway. Just listen to you body and do what suits you best. Overtraining is a over exaggerated concept IMO and as long as you work out with an intensity that suits you then you should be fine.

I'll bite my tongue (as usual) on Martin Berkan's IF diet and just say that as long as you hit your macros for the day and do your cardio consistently you should be fine. If it's easier for you or you like to eat at those time periods then have at it. If your goal is to get to 8% I think I would cut out the cheese and milk. Fish oil pills or EVOO is a better source of fat than cheese and pretty much any carb source is better than the lactose in the milk. Getting to 8% is a completely different beast than getting to 10%. To get to 8% the food choices of your macros DOES matter IMO. Your training split with your carb cycle looks fine to me although 1796 cal seems really low to me. I know it's only 2 days a week but if you feel like you're losing LBM that would be the first thing I'd adjust. 

When are you starting this?

Good luck and keep us updated.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> Dont mention him he mite show up! LOL..


No he won't he's either already banned or in the process of being banned.

----------


## --->>405<<---

See me being the pig i am would rather take that 270cals and have another 6-10oz meat LOL.. Of course ur doing IF so u mite not wanna eat that much food since ur Feeding window is alot smaller than mine  :Smilie: 

Good luck dude!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Hey sarge i found a thread on another website i lookd over on carb cycling .. Thought it was interesting.. Curious to yalls thoughts but dont know if its legal to post the link?? And u mite not feel like reading it.. A little long.. Slf thought u mite be interested.. Mainly wanted to get opinions on its accuracy/validity  :Smilie:

----------


## slfmade

> I was just messin with you and I gotta give GB shit every once in a while - I have no idea how he has the patience to do what he does. He's the man. 
> 
> Re: HIT. I've said it before that there are varying degrees of intensity for HIT that IMO you can adjust to suit your diet and goals. Rest pause and drop sets are the way forward IMO regardless of caloric intake or goals. At a caloric deficit I wouldn't take the rest pause sets to forced reps or negatives nor would I do more than 3 or 4 max exercises per muscle group but rest pause or drop sets done to failure with minimal rest period are fine. Keep your work outs at 30 - 45 min. After doing your full body work outs for the past several weeks you should be ready for it anyway. Just listen to you body and do what suits you best. Overtraining is a over exaggerated concept IMO and as long as you work out with an intensity that suits you then you should be fine.
> 
> I'll bite my tongue (as usual) on Martin Berkan's IF diet and just say that as long as you hit your macros for the day and do your cardio consistently you should be fine. If it's easier for you or you like to eat at those time periods then have at it. If your goal is to get to 8% I think I would cut out the cheese and milk. Fish oil pills or EVOO is a better source of fat than cheese and pretty much any carb source is better than the lactose in the milk. Getting to 8% is a completely different beast than getting to 10%. To get to 8% the food choices of your macros DOES matter IMO. Your training split with your carb cycle looks fine to me although 1796 cal seems really low to me. I know it's only 2 days a week but if you feel like you're losing LBM that would be the first thing I'd adjust. 
> 
> When are you starting this?
> 
> Good luck and keep us updated.


Wow...Good info SGT. I can't believe I forgot about my Fish Oil caps. That makes sense about food choices when dropping from 10% to 8%. I was a also a bit worried about how little calories I'm consuming on no/low carb days. I'm gonna pay close attention while on and adjust if/when I need to.

I start this coming Monday, and I haven't even started putting my routine together. Tbody made it easy on me last time by putting it together for me. Now I feel like I'm on my own. I don't have a clue what to do, so I have a lot of research to do and little time to do it in.

Anyway, Going to the gym now. It's last workout of this 8 week full body routine. I can't wait for this to finally be over. I'm so burned out on full body routines!!! (In a fat black woman's voice) PRAISE GOD!!!!!

----------


## slfmade

> Hey sarge i found a thread on another website i lookd over on carb cycling .. Thought it was interesting.. Curious to yalls thoughts but dont know if its legal to post the link?? And u mite not feel like reading it.. A little long.. Slf thought u mite be interested.. Mainly wanted to get opinions on its accuracy/validity


Linking really depends on what the website is. For instance webmd is fine, but another steroid forum is not! PM it to me though. I'll give it a read!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Will do.. I pmd it to gb but hes prob too busy to read it..

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> Hey sarge i found a thread on another website i lookd over on carb cycling .. Thought it was interesting.. Curious to yalls thoughts but dont know if its legal to post the link?? And u mite not feel like reading it.. A little long.. Slf thought u mite be interested.. Mainly wanted to get opinions on its accuracy/validity


If it's a website with any ads or from another forum then you can't post it. Just copy and paste if in doubt.

----------


## --->>405<<---

I pmd it to slf.. I could pm it to u or u could get it from him if u wanted to look it over..?

----------


## slfmade

Yeah, Good think you pm'd it. You can't link anything from that site. 

I gotta hit the gym, but I'll read it when I get home.

----------


## Standby

hmmm interesting. and you have clen in there, interesting. looking forward to the end result

----------


## slfmade

> hmmm *interesting*. and you have clen in there, *interesting*. looking forward to the end result


I find it interesting that you find it so interesting. What's so interesting? lol

----------


## Standby

lol i honestly just wanted to sound weird. i meant nothing by it

----------


## hex

> LOL - I guess I should've clarified it. I'm not pinning insulin...I'm using an insulin syringe to pin MT2(tanning peptide).


never even heard of it until i googled it. sounds like something that should be invested in seeing as tho i spend every sec of the summer in direct sunlight for work.

----------


## slfmade

Okay so here is a very rough draft of the workout routine that I'm thinking of running. Please give me your input. I feel like this might be too much, but I'm leaving it to you guys to tell me if this workout if over doing it.

Before you comment on my lack of squats, deads, etc. Please note that I have a recent back injury and I can't do any movement the puts downward pressure on my spine.

Also note: BrownGirl is Tiny and wouldn't be much good as a spotter which is why I've had to incorporate a lot of Hammer Strength and Smith Machine into the program.

Here ya go:

mon: chest/abs
Hammer Strength Or Smith Machine Incline Press: Warm Up Set - Drop Set 10-8-6.…..followed by rest pause x 3
Hammer Strength Decline - 4sets x 10
Flat DB - 4sets x 10
Alternating weeks of pec deck or cable crossover - 4sets x 10

*Abs - Superset the following 2 exercises with 60sec rest in between supersets (3 Sets)*
Crunches (20 straight, 20 side right, 20 side left)
Leg Lifts (20 reps)

Tues:legs/abs
Leg Press: (The 45 degree angle one) Warm Up Set - Drop Set 10-8-6.…..followed by rest pause x 3

*Superset: The following 3 exercises - (3 Sets)*
Leg Ext: 10 reps
Calves 21’s (7in,7out,7straight)
Leg Curl 10 reps


Wed: Back
Hammer Strength Iso-Lateral Row - Warm Up Set - Drop Set 10-8-6.…..followed by rest pause x 3
Lawn Mowers - 4 x 10
Alternating weeks of Lat Pull Downs or Pull Ups - 4 x 10
Seated Cable rows - 4 x 10


*Abs - Superset the following 2 exercises with 60sec rest in between supersets (3 Sets)*
Crunches (20 straight, 20 side right, 20 side left)
Leg Lifts (20 reps)

Friday: Shoulders/arms/abs 
First 3 exercises - Warm Up Set - Drop Set 10-8-6.…..followed by rest pause x 3
Hammer Strength Shoulder Press
Close Grip Bench
Standing BB Curl 


*Superset the following 3 x 12*
DB overhead tri extensions
Incline Hammer Curls
lateral and front raises
shrugs

*Abs - Superset the following 2 exercises with 60sec rest in between supersets (3 Sets)*
Crunches (20 straight, 20 side right, 20 side left)
Leg Lifts (20 reps)

----------


## --->>405<<---

looks pretty good to me man.. i dont think its too much.. id also like to note i always work out alone.. never with a spotter.. dont get reps to failure but hey thats how it goes.. once i start bulking i may have to improvise.. thats what DBs r for  :Smilie:  

most of my friends r too slack and inconsistent and also slow me down and get in the way  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

i need to do lower abs too.. i like hanging knee raises  :Smilie:  well i actually hate them but think theyre pretty good for lower abs LOL..

----------


## hex

i agree it seems pretty solid to me. have you tried laying leg curls? i find they hit the ham much better then seated

----------


## slfmade

> i agree it seems pretty solid to me. have you tried laying leg curls? i find they hit the ham much better then seated


I actually tried laying a week ago but for some reason it seems to put more pressure on my lower back - It cause quite a bit of pain. So I decided to stick with seated leg curls.

I'm not even 30 yet and my back makes me feel 80. Before you know I'm gonna have to finance me one of those rascal scooters. LOL

----------


## slfmade

Have any of you guys ever incorporated dumbell pullovers into your back routine? I've heard they're good for back, but I've never done them.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Never dun the pullover aT all.. Rnt they a lat exercise?

----------


## slfmade

> Never dun the pullover aT all.. Rnt they a lat exercise?


Yep...Some people talk very highly of them.

----------


## bowldawg

I do pullovers on chest day. Pullovers hit many different musle groups. I really feel it in my core and triceps.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

If you feel pullovers in your triceps then you're doing them wrong IMO. Your elbows should stay at a fixed angle so the back and lats do the work and not the triceps. 

Slf, I'm on my cell right now so I'll go through your new training program in the morning but I do like the overall concept.

----------


## slfmade

> If you feel pullovers in your triceps then you're doing them wrong IMO. Your elbows should stay at a fixed angle so the back and lats do the work and not the triceps. 
> 
> *Slf, I'm on my cell right now so I'll go through your new training program in the morning but I do like the overall concept*.


Thanks SGT. I would appreciate the help. This is the first time I've ever put a routine together so I need all the help I can get.

----------


## hex

i find dumbell pull overs hit my lower pecs and the side of my ribs (where those little finger like muscles should be when i finish cutting) they hit those areas so hard its hard to sleep that night lol i love it myself. but i use the bar most use for hammer curls fo them find the weight range very useful

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

Overall it's fine but there's a couple things that if it were me, I'd change.

Chest - 12 straight sets plus a rest pause and a drop set are too much IMO. I don't know if you've ever done an intense rest pause or drop set to failure each time but I don't think I could do 12 straight sets of 3 more exercises afterwards. I would probably drop one of the pressing exercises and I'd do the straight set off flat DB presses first and the rest pause and drop set last.

Abs - when I work abs hard with drop sets or whatever I need more than 1 day of rest before working them again. Mon/Thur would be much better. 3 times a week is too much IMO. 

Legs - very similar to my routine. Make sure to take the rest pause and drop sets to failure each time. This routine looks easy on paper but it'll probably make you want to puke if done correctly. 

Back - I'd rather see you do the pull ups first. I like to basically rest pause them, ie. do your first set to failure, 10 sec break, repeat until you can't do any. Also 3 of your 4 back exercises are for back thickness and not back width. If that's a weak point for you and you're trying to work on it that's fine. I'm the opposite and trying to really work on width much more so than thickness.

Shoulders/Arms - Do you like or feel like you get anything out of hammer curls? In my experience they're useless and I'd rather isolate the bicep for a peak contraction, ie. supinated curls.  


I'm no exercise expert but I know what works for me. Most important, I think, is to figure out what works best for you and this should be a really good start. Curious to see what others have to say about this routine........

----------


## slfmade

> Overall it's fine but there's a couple things that if it were me, I'd change.
> 
> Chest - 12 straight sets plus a rest pause and a drop set are too much IMO. I don't know if you've ever done an intense rest pause or drop set to failure each time but I don't think I could do 12 straight sets of 3 more exercises afterwards. I would probably drop one of the pressing exercises and I'd do the straight set off flat DB presses first and the rest pause and drop set last. 
> 
> *Let me make sure I understand correctly. You're saying to drop one of the exercises. Then do Flat DB Press first, then the 2nd exercise (whichever I choose not to drop), then Incline Press using dropsets and rest pause? Which exercise would you recommend I drop?* 
> 
> Abs - when I work abs hard with drop sets or whatever I need more than 1 day of rest before working them again. Mon/Thur would be much better. 3 times a week is too much IMO. 
> 
> *That makes sense. I'll change it to Mon/Thurs*
> ...


^^^^See Bolds. I appreciate all the help. I feel like I'm really starting to get a good grasp on dieting, but I'm still a clueless noob when it comes to workout routines. If you could give me your input on the above bolds it would give me a better understanding, and I can trial and error what works best for me from there.

Thanks again.

----------


## Razor

I like how this is looking bro

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> ^^^^See Bolds. I appreciate all the help. I feel like I'm really starting to get a good grasp on dieting, but I'm still a clueless noob when it comes to workout routines. If you could give me your input on the above bolds it would give me a better understanding, and I can trial and error what works best for me from there.
> 
> Thanks again.


Yeah drop an exercise on chest or at least change one of the presses to dumbell flyes. You're doing 3 of the exact same pressing exercises and just changing the angle. 

The fact that you're weak at pull ups and struggle with back width isn't a coincidence man. So what if you have to use the assisted machine or get a spotter, you're not there to impress anyone right? Pull ups should be a staple of any back program IMO. You could also get BrownGirl to hold your feet while you keep your lower legs parallel to the ground and then you just push off as you need help. This is way oversimplifying it but think of back thickness exercises as being horizontal pulls and back width exercises vertical pulls. And don't believe that you have to use a wide grip on your vertical pulls to develop your width. It's all about contracting your lats as hard as you can at the bottom of the movement and stretching at the top. Form and really feeling the contraction is much more important than going heavy, at least for me. 

If you think hammer curls work for you then great, but they do jack shit for me as far as peaking my bicep goes anyway. Do this: in your double bi pose flex you bis with your thumb facing your head like you're doing a hammer curl, then from that position supinate your hand/wrist and watch how much more your bicep peaks. I like to rotate my wrist like this whether I'm doing incline bench curls, standing, or isolation curls. I think it's better for adding overall mass and developing a higher peak.

----------


## slfmade

Thanks SGT. Okay Pull ups will be my primary back movement then. I see your point with the hammer curls too so I'm gonna drop them. What's your opinion on Zottman Curls?

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

I had to google it so see what they are lol. 

I've never tried them.

----------


## gbrice75

> Yeah drop an exercise on chest or at least change one of the presses to dumbell flyes. You're doing 3 of the exact same pressing exercises and just changing the angle. 
> 
> The fact that you're weak at pull ups and struggle with back width isn't a coincidence man. So what if you have to use the assisted machine or get a spotter, you're not there to impress anyone right? Pull ups should be a staple of any back program IMO. You could also get BrownGirl to hold your feet while you keep your lower legs parallel to the ground and then you just push off as you need help. This is way oversimplifying it but think of back thickness exercises as being horizontal pulls and back width exercises vertical pulls. And don't believe that you have to use a wide grip on your vertical pulls to develop your width. It's all about contracting your lats as hard as you can at the bottom of the movement and stretching at the top. Form and really feeling the contraction is much more important than going heavy, at least for me.


Great advice here from Sgt. Wide grip puts a lot of undue stress on the shoulder joints. I go with a shoulder width grip, AT BEST. When I do chins (as opposed to pull ups), I'll even do them with my palms touching - great for hitting back and bi's together.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Great advice here from Sgt. *Wide grip puts a lot of undue stress on the shoulder joints. I go with a shoulder width grip, AT BEST.*  When I do chins (as opposed to pull ups), I'll even do them with my palms touching - great for hitting back and bi's together.


Good to know  :Smilie:

----------


## Standby

i find pull overs hurt my tris even on a fixed machine where my elbows and hands are planted  :What?:  ill never get them right

----------


## slfmade

So I just finished my first Day of my new Diet and Workout Routine, and I feel FREAKING AMAZING!!!! I mean I'm exhausted and I almost puked during my workout, but I feel sooooooo good. Part of it might have to do with the 60mcg starting dose of clen , but I think it has more to do with the timing of my workout. 

Normally I workout at night after being awake all day (Up at 8:00a.m. Workout at 8:00p.m.). Fortunately since I own my own business I can change my schedule as I please. So due to my new meal and working timing I started working out earlier in the day. Today I went at 4:00pm.

As I said before I thought it might be the clen, but BrownGirl said she feels amazing too and she's not taking then clen. Have any of you noticed different energy levels based during different training times?

It could also be because for the last 8 weeks I've been doing a full body superset routine. My chest and abs (group worked tonight) is completely and utterly exhaused but the rest of my body feels fresh and alive in comparison to the all over fatigue I'm normally experiencing after workout.

Today was Chest Day and I did my first drop set routine w/rest pause and I look freakin Huge right now!!! I mean I'm no Ronnie Coleman, but it's the biggest I've EVER looked. If it weren't for the stomach bloat from the gallon of water I drank during my workout I would post up a pic because I'm lookin pretty damn good. LOL

Sgt. Hartman. I did as you said and pulled DB Press out of my routine and replaced it with DB Fly's. I really like it alot. I did my drop sets and rest pause with Incline Press and it was brutal, but I really felt I was working it like I haven't ever worked it before. I did my Decline Hammer Strength and since I still had a bit of energy left so I did a few sets of the pec dec. This way I had 2 Press Movements and 2 fly? type movements or whatever they're called.

I killed my abs...I mean destroyed them!!!! I don't know what I was thinking when I put together that supersetted ab routine, but 240reps of crunches in 5 min is pretty brutal....it made me wanta puke!

As for Diet, I pulled the cheese and milk as you guys suggested. My fats were really really low (<25g) and I didn't have the time to reconfigure my diet with other fats so I added in a 2 tbs of natty peanut butter to my protein shake. I know it's not as good as evoo or fish oil, but it's better than cheese right? I'm gonna re-work the diet a little bit tonight so I'll be set tomorrow.

Anyway....all and all for day 1 I'm very happy!

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> So I just finished my first Day of my new Diet and Workout Routine, and I feel FREAKING AMAZING!!!! I mean I'm exhausted and I almost puked during my workout, but I feel sooooooo good. Part of it might have to do with the 60mcg starting dose of clen , but I think it has more to do with the timing of my workout. 
> 
> Normally I workout at night after being awake all day (Up at 8:00a.m. Workout at 8:00p.m.). Fortunately since I own my own business I can change my schedule as I please. So due to my new meal and working timing I started working out earlier in the day. Today I went at 4:00pm.
> 
> As I said before I thought it might be the clen, but BrownGirl said she feels amazing too and she's not taking then clen. Have any of you noticed different energy levels based during different training times?
> 
> It could also be because for the last 8 weeks I've been doing a full body superset routine. My chest and abs (group worked tonight) is completely and utterly exhaused but the rest of my body feels fresh and alive in comparison to the all over fatigue I'm normally experiencing after workout.
> 
> Today was Chest Day and I did my first drop set routine w/rest pause and *I look freakin Huge right now!*!! I mean I'm no Ronnie Coleman, but it's the biggest I've EVER looked. If it weren't for the stomach bloat from the gallon of water I drank during my workout I would post up a pic because I'm lookin pretty damn good. LOL
> ...


LMAO. Welcome to doing a real HIT style work out my man. Leaving the gym with your shirt not fitting properly anymore is a great feeling huh?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Good deal man !! Glad to hear.. I bet part of how u feel is due to change  :Smilie:  i used to do all total body and when i switched to single bodypart or 2 bodypart/ day the diff was fantastic.. Doing total body supersets i was running around like a madman.. The way i do now i do one set and take a break.. Its awesome  :Smilie:  as opposed to doing 5 sets with no rest then takn a break.. Glad u had a good day.. I wouldnt sweat the pb if it fits into ur macros.. Just my opinion. 

Funny i switched decline for db flyes and had a similar chest experience as u.. I think i even posted someth bout it in my threAd.. I supersetted db flyes with cables .. Was great! 

Glad ur happy!  :Smilie:

----------


## RaginCajun

just checking in on ya and it looks like you are tearing it up for day 1! haha. the diet part is the toughest and most important but it looks like the gurus are helping ya out. for fats, you could add in some raw almonds, the egg yolk (if your eating eggs), avocado (one of my favs), etc........... keep it up!

----------


## slfmade

> LMAO. Welcome to doing a real HIT style work out my man. Leaving the gym with your shirt not fitting properly anymore is a great feeling huh?


It sure is. Now I can't wait to do arms Friday!!! Legs tomorrow is gonna be a killer though, but I'm still excited about it.

----------


## slfmade

> Good deal man !! Glad to hear.. I bet part of how u feel is due to change  i used to do all total body and when i switched to single bodypart or 2 bodypart/ day the diff was fantastic.. Doing total body supersets i was running around like a madman.. The way i do now i do one set and take a break.. Its awesome  as opposed to doing 5 sets with no rest then takn a break.. Glad u had a good day.. I wouldnt sweat the pb if it fits into ur macros.. Just my opinion. 
> 
> Funny i switched decline for db flyes and had a similar chest experience as u.. I think i even posted someth bout it in my threAd.. I supersetted db flyes with cables .. Was great! 
> 
> Glad ur happy!


I wished we lived in the same cities. Our Stats, Diet, Workout Routine, and dedication are so similiar I bet it would make us a great fit for workout partners.




> just checking in on ya and it looks like you are tearing it up for day 1! haha. the diet part is the toughest and most important but it looks like the gurus are helping ya out. for fats, you could add in some raw almonds, the egg yolk (if your eating eggs), avocado (one of my favs), etc........... keep it up!


Thanks for the support RC. I think I'm gonna find some way to incorporate the almonds into the diet. I think between that and the fish oil I should be G2G.

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ ur rite  :Smilie:  would be nice to have a good matching wkout partner  :Smilie:

----------


## slfmade

So I woke up this morning unbelievably SORE!!!! I don't wanta imagine what it's gonna be like tomorrow because for me I'm always the most sore on the 2nd day. I'm lovin it though. I know being sore isn't a indication of having a solid workout, but it sure makes feel like I've accomplished something.

I didn't do cardio this morning because here in about an hour is LEG DAY!!! I have a good feeling I'm not gonna be able to walk out of there. I have a question. In my workout out plan I'm doing the compound dropset/rest pause movement first. Should I do my 4 x 10 isolation exercises first and pre-exhaust and end with the compound dropset/rest pause movement, or keep it as it is?

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL i dont even know wat that means !! LOL..

----------


## slfmade

> LOL i dont even know wat that means !! LOL..


LOL - It means I hurt!

----------


## slfmade

Just got back from my first Leg Day and I can barely walk. That drop set/rest pause on Leg Press damn near killed me! I almost puked and I think browngirl may have thrown up a bit in her mouth. LOL Not really but close. If you guys every want an intense leg routine.....Do a dropset followed immediately be 3 sets of rest pause! It's brutal!!!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

When u say dropset u mean u start heavy and do say 10reps then take some off and keep going without rest etc etc..?? 

And rest-pause?? Wats that? Where u pause mid-rep??

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> Just got back from my first Leg Day and I can barely walk. That drop set/rest pause on Leg Press damn near killed me! I almost puked and I think browngirl may have thrown up a bit in her mouth. LOL Not really but close. If you guys every want an intense leg routine.....Do a dropset followed immediately be 3 sets of rest pause! It's brutal!!!!!!


I was gonna tell you to leave it like you had it but obviously you did. 

I thought nobody can get a proper leg work out with out doing squats though?..... Hmmmmmmm




> When u say dropset u mean u start heavy and do say 10reps then take some off and keep going without rest etc etc..?? 
> 
> And rest-pause?? Wats that? Where u pause mid-rep??


A drop set is doing a set of say ten reps to failure, then without a break, decreasing the weight by about 20% and doing that to failure, dropping another 20% and then repeating to failure again. 

Rest pause is doing a set of say 10 reps to failure, take 10 - 15 deep breaths and doing the same weight again, 10 - 15 deep breaths and doing it again. It would go something like reps of 10-6-3-1 or similar. If you're eating at a surplus and/or on cycle you could then do a couple forced reps and then negatives but slf doesn't need to do the forced or negative reps as he's eating at a deficit and not on cycle.

----------


## slfmade

> When u say dropset u mean u start heavy and do say 10reps then take some off and keep going without rest etc etc..?? 
> 
> And rest-pause?? Wats that? Where u pause mid-rep??


You're correct on the dropset part. I do 10/8/6 and tonight I used 300/280/260 for weight. After the drop set I take a 10 sec break and go straight into rest pause. With rest pause training it's my understanding that after doing a movement to failure (or in this case a dropset), you take a very small rest (10sec) and go again until complete failure, then take another rest and go until complete failure, and so on. I did 3 sets of rest pause which worked out well because there's no way in hell I could've done a 4th. Mine went something like this

Legs Press
10 reps at 300
8 reps at 280
6 reps at 260
rest 10 sec
5 1/2 reps at 260
rest 10 sec
3 1/2 reps at 260
rest 10 sec
1 1/2 reps at 260

I also did a bit of a forced rep when I only hit my 1/2 and put my hands on my knees to complete the rep. So with cheating I actually did 6/4/2 on my rest pause. This is the way I understand rest pause, but it's all brand new to me so maybe Sgt Hartman will jump in and give his wisdom.

----------


## slfmade

LOL...Nevermind, I guess he already did!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Very cool! Thx guys  :Smilie:  

Now sarge when u say slf cant or shoukdnt do forced reps or negatives cuz hes not cycling and eating at deficit woukd the logic be that itd just be wasted energy?

Also wat is a forced rep? Do u have to have a spotter? I do all my lifting solo...

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

The rep ranges I posted were just examples - you can do whatever suits you best. And there are many other variations that people do but that's basically what drop sets and rest-pause are. 

If you want to really read up on rest-pause look into DC (Doggcrapp) training.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> Very cool! Thx guys  
> 
> Now sarge when u say slf cant or shoukdnt do forced reps or negatives cuz hes not cycling and eating at deficit woukd the logic be that itd just be wasted energy?
> 
> Also wat is a forced rep? Do u have to have a spotter? I do all my lifting solo...


Yeah a forced rep is performing a rep with assistance that you couldn't do on your own. 

Heavy forced reps and drop sets aren't a good idea IMO after rest-pause as it's too intense to be able to recover properly without an excess of cals and/or androgens. 

Try just doing a full rest-pause set to failure on each set and you'll see why I say this. It doesn't sound that hard but it's excruciating when done properly (but in a good way lol).

----------


## slfmade

> Very cool! Thx guys  
> 
> Now sarge when u say slf cant or shoukdnt do forced reps or negatives cuz hes not cycling and eating at deficit woukd the logic be that itd just be wasted energy?
> 
> *Also wat is a forced rep? Do u have to have a spotter?* I do all my lifting solo...


LOL...wasn't it just you that was messin with Razr for not using google??? LOL Just messin with ya man. A forced Rep is when you force up a rep with the help of a spotter. Or in my case since I was using leg press I was able to place my hands on my knees to help me out when I got to that sticking spot.

So yes most of the time you need a spotter....and a good one at that. When doing forced reps you want the spotter to help as little as possible just getting you past the point that you would get stuck at. This is where having a spotter than knows you (and how you work out) well comes in handy.

----------


## slfmade

Damn it Sgt! You keep beating me to it!!!! LOL

----------


## slfmade

> Yeah a forced rep is performing a rep with assistance that you couldn't do on your own. 
> 
> Heavy forced reps and drop sets aren't a good idea IMO after rest-pause as it's too intense to be able to recover properly without an excess of cals and/or androgens. 
> 
> Try just doing a full rest-pause set to failure on each set and you'll see why I say this. *It doesn't sound that hard but it's excruciating when done properly (but in a good way lol*).


I can attest to that!!!

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

I'm on it tonight.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

I can post fast when I'm not on a damn iphone. 

Not to hijack but I think I liked my EVO better than my iphone4s. Thoughts?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Im on an iphone rite now. I love it.. Except having to delete 4 letters out of every 12 i type! And then retype.. But its def the best phone ive ever had.. My dang cricket ard is not workn otherwise id be on laptop rite now. But dont get me started with cricket..

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

There's alot of stuff you can do with the iphone that makes it have a bit of a learning curve for a first timer. I've had mine for months and I'm still learning new shortcuts and tricks. I have a love/hate relationship with that bitch Siri though.

----------


## slfmade

So I was just reading a thread that Razr had posted asking "what are your goals". I started thinking about what I would like my stats to look like next summer.

As of this last Sunday I weighed in at 190lbs and about 12% bf. My goal by next summer would be 190lbs and 6% bodyfat. And I would like to stay there year round.

Right now I have 167.2lbs of LBM. If I accomplished my goal I would be at 178.6lbs of lbm. That's a 11.4lbs of LBM I would need to add over the course of 1 year. Is the possible without AAS?

During this last bulk I added 10.5lbs and reduced bodyfat by 3%. That put me at a LBM increase of 14.6lbs. I'm SURE this has been all newbie gains so it begs the question....is my goal possible without aas? I'm thinking no. But for you guys that have cycled before. Would 1 cycle get me there??? And with proper diet, training, and pct would I be able to maintain this year round?

----------


## Razor

You could run a test prop/ primo/var cycle and knock it outa the park with how committed you are to your diet.

----------


## slfmade

I touched on why I'm hesitant about not running any aas right now in your thread, but what about peptides (like CJC/GHRP)? Would they help much at all? Most people I see running peps are just using them during pct to help maintain, but would they be worth the money to use during a bulk?

----------


## Razor

Peptides are worthless, I have run them all... gh is the only thing that builds muscle and burns fat, a test/primo var would be really light on you and you would be fine.

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ slf didnt u say u thought u were a candidate for TRt? If so that leads me to 2 questions:

1. If ur low it seems itd been hard to accumukate 14.6lbs LBM on this bulk which makes me wonder if u r indeed low..

2. If ur low it seems a cycle could put u over the top and i dont know bout ur recovery from cycle as well as ability to keep gains..

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

Peps aren't worthless, they're just bunk from most research chem companies. There are a ton of other compounds that will yield better results though. 

I'm not trying to talk you into taking AAS but you should look into HCG , SERMS and their effect on sperm production Even people who were "shutdown" or who had off the charts low T levels have gotten girls pregnant. You should talk to Swifto about it.

----------


## slfmade

> Peps aren't worthless, they're just bunk from most research chem companies. There are a ton of other compounds that will yield better results though. 
> 
> I'm not trying to talk you into taking AAS but you should look into HCG, SERMS and their effect on sperm production Even people who were "shutdown" or who had off the charts low T levels have gotten girls pregnant. You should talk to Swifto about it.


I'll do some more research and give it some thought. If I did my schedule would look something like this:

Finish my current cut this May.
June-Aug - Maintain
Aug-Sept - 8 week Prime
Nov-Feb - 12 week AAS then PCT
Mar-May - Cut

I figure that would have me looking pretty good by next summer!

----------


## slfmade

I took my BCAA's this morning and did 50min LIC fasted cardio. It's sooooo freakin boring. With the addition of the clen I'm having to walk at 3.0 mph just to keep my heartrate between 65-75%. It would be different if BrownGirl was there; at least then I would have someone to talk to, but she's still got about 5 1/2 weeks left in her lean bulk so she stays home. Oh well only 48 days of cardio left 2 go. LOL

----------


## --->>405<<---

Sounds like a plan for u and me  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Post 318 that is ^^^

----------


## slfmade

Well, Back Day is done!!! After I completed my workout I went back to pull ups and decided to 1 set doing just the negative. It sounds stupid, but right now my goal is to be able to do 4x10 pull ups without any assistance. Today I used the assisted pull up machine, but to complete all 3 sets I had to use the 55lbs plate which put me at pulling up 135lbs. Even this was a stuggle getting all 10 reps out on every set.

Tomorrow I start my first no carb day of the carb cycle. I'm crossing my fingers and hope it's not gonna be as hard as it seems in my head. I guess we'll see...

----------


## --->>405<<---

Good luck.. Hope u have a veggie to put with every meal  :Smilie:  i used to be the same with pullups.. Lats sucked.. Theyre just startn to come in a bit..

----------


## slfmade

> Good luck.. Hope u have a veggie to put with every meal  i used to be the same with pullups.. Lats sucked.. Theyre just startn to come in a bit..


I have 1 cup of brocolli and 1 cup of asparagus for every meal. That seems like It'll be enough.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ive found weighing broc to be easier  :Smilie:  of course what kinda anal retentive a-hole have i become to even have a need to weigh freakin broccoli! LOL..

----------


## slfmade

So my first no/low carb day and I'm pretty miserable...but not in the way you might think. I'm so freakin stuffed this 2nd meal is gonna take me an hour to get down. Even though is less calories it feels like more. I guess there's a big difference between eating a 3/4cup oats and 2 cups of veggies. It's killing me!

----------


## bikeral

Is it OK to juice the veggies?

----------


## slfmade

> Is it OK to juice the veggies?


I would think so, but that would taste awful!!! NO Thanks...I'm gonna have to figure out something else though, cause I can't do this again tomorrow. It's been 45min since I started eating and I'm only half way done.

----------


## slfmade

Did Fasted Cardio this morning = 50 min LIC

I did back yesterday, and I'm crazy sore today. My lats are killing me...which is good because they're NEVER sore. 

I need some help from you guys. When I do pull ups I burn out my biceps for some reason. I try to keep really good form the entire time, but half way through my set I always start feeling my biceps burn. I feel like; because my lats are so small, my biceps have to do a lot of the work. I've watched just about every youtube video about proper width and form, and I even have Browngirl watch me to make sure I'm keeping proper form, but for whatever reason I'm still feeling it hit my biceps hard.

A few things to point out. My biceps were burning last night, but they're not sore today. The opposite is true with my lats. They weren't hurting last night, but they're very sore today. I've also noticed that the posterior lats are where I'm having the soreness. I feel hardly any pain in the anterior portion of the lats. I don't know if that means anything, but I thought it worth noting.

----------


## --->>405<<---

PoSterior; anterior.. Yeh u lost me Dr. Slf  :Wink:  

I find when doing pullups (front grip) if i hold and squeeze at the top of the movement it really engages my lats.. Like u my lats sucked up until a few months ago.. All i did were pulldowns (couldnt do pullups).. It took awhile but theyre finally coming around.. I think the reason i coyldnt do them (and this is prob similar to ur problem) is cuz i didnt really have lats to speak of.. Tbey had to grow! It seems now that theyre growing/ have grown it gets easier each time  :Smilie:  make sense??

----------


## bikeral

> Did Fasted Cardio this morning = 50 min LIC
> 
> I need some help from you guys. When I do pull ups I burn out my biceps for some reason. I try to keep really good form the entire time, but half way through my set I always start feeling my biceps burn. I feel like; because my lats are so small, my biceps have to do a lot of the work. I've watched just about every youtube video about proper width and form, and I even have Browngirl watch me to make sure I'm keeping proper form, but for whatever reason I'm still feeling it hit my biceps hard.


What grip are you using? I do parallel close grip and they really hit my lats. Here is a link that is a great resource for exercises. http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

----------


## slfmade

> PoSterior; anterior.. Yeh u lost me Dr. Slf  
> 
> I find when doing pullups (front grip) if i hold and squeeze at the top of the movement it really engages my lats.. Like u my lats sucked up until a few months ago.. All i did were pulldowns (couldnt do pullups).. It took awhile but theyre finally coming around.. I think the reason i coyldnt do them (and this is prob similar to ur problem) is cuz i didnt really have lats to speak of.. Tbey had to grow! It seems now that theyre growing/ have grown it gets easier each time  make sense??


LOL - Anterior is the front of your body, so in this case the anterior portion of the lats would be closer to your armpit; whereas posterior would be the side of your lats that are closer to your back. So basically the lat portion that you see when doing a front pose vs the lat portion you see when doing back pose.

Yes my lats suck!!! It's probably the most underdeveloped muscle group I have. I try to do the squeeze at the top of the movement and see how that works. Thanks for your input! Now go take an Anatomy Class!!!! LOL




> What grip are you using? I do parallel close grip and they really hit my lats. Here is a link that is a great resource for exercises. http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html


Thanks for the link bikeral - I'll check it out!

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## --->>405<<---

Hey i learned sumthn.. Thx  :Smilie:  im curious how do u work them individually?? Like focus on each one?

----------


## slfmade

> Hey i learned sumthn.. Thx  im curious how do u work them individually?? Like focus on each one?


The Hell if I know. I don't know if there is a way. I just found it weird and thought maybe someone may have experienced it before

----------


## Tx89

Try this guys: sitting pulldown on a cable with a rope attached, but one Arm at a time!
Try bringing the ellbow as far down and back as you can and Hold in there and squeeezeeee. Overall slow Tempo to allow a good stretch when letting the weight go up.
This allows me to pump up my lats like nothing else and you can work them individually :-)

----------


## slfmade

So Last Night I did shoulders/Arms/Abs. I really liked the workout. I didn't do the rest pause on biceps curls because I walked in with a case of DOMS. I'm feeling pretty good today though. I must have worked out a little of the soreness!

Question: What exercises to you guys use to work your obliques? I'm doing a lot of side crunches, but I just don't my obliques being targeted as well as I would like!

----------


## slfmade

I always forget to do my Cardio Updates! Did 50min Fasted LIC Cardio this morning.

Another Question for you guys. I take my BCAA's before fasted cardio every morning and also on Friday before/during my lifts (since I don't have any complex carbs on Fridays). Should I be taking the BCAA's every night or just when doing fasted cardio and lift days that don't have complex carbs in the mix?

----------


## --->>405<<---

The best thing gor obliques ive found is dropping bodyfat! LOL..!

Other than that have ur girl stand with her feet straddling ur head facing ur feet and keep ur legs strait and do leg lifts and have her catch ur feet and push them hard to the left and the right towards the floor .. For cardio if ur motivated enuff a heavy bag and punches are good and kicks are great! 

U coukd also do the oldschool twist with the broomstick or use an ez curl bar with maybe 5lbs on each side..

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## slfmade

> The best thing gor obliques ive found is dropping bodyfat! LOL..!
> 
> Other than that *have ur girl stand with her feet straddling ur head facing ur feet* and keep ur legs strait and do leg lifts and have her catch ur feet and push them hard to the left and the right towards the floor .. For cardio if ur motivated enuff a heavy bag and punches are good and kicks are great! 
> 
> U coukd also do the oldschool twist with the broomstick or use an ez curl bar with maybe 5lbs on each side..


LMAO!!!! Was wondering where you were gonna go with that for a sec!!!! LOL

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## --->>405<<---

I only take bcaa pre fasted cardio and post fasted cardio on zero carb days.. Maybe i should before lifting on zero carb days but i figd since im eating protein before Nd after im good..

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## --->>405<<---

> LMAO!!!! Was wondering where you were gonna go with that for a sec!!!! LOL


 :Smilie:  LOL well.. For motivation u coukd have her wear a skirt LOL  :Wink:

----------


## Tx89

Have never trained my obliques in my life! I fear that doing it could overall broaden the area too much, which I dont find aesthetic..
Also they do lots of stabilizing in the heavy ass compound movements, so I believe they get enough work by that.

But then again, I need to get bf low enough to really see them haha :-) maybe i'll change my view then

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## --->>405<<---

^^ i learned the hard way the best thing for obliques is fatloss!! Which is why it wat i said first earlier.. Love handles are a huge trouble spot for me.. I used to work my butt off back when i thought doing ab work would get rid of bodyfat (LOL) .. i can say with confidence today my love handles are completely gone.. All due to loss of bf%..

Funny though slf one thing i *HAVE* Noticed thats helpd make the waist look better.. *LATS*!! Now when i look at meself from an angke i can see my lats come all the way down and wrap into my obliques.. Its awesome man !!!

----------


## slfmade

Thanks for your input guys. I agree with you 405 about the lats which is why I'm working so hard to improve them. I'm well aware that a person can't spot reduce which is why I said obliques and not love handles. The reason I asked was just for basic core reasons. As I mentioned above I feel my workout in the rectus Abdominis, but I feel my obliques are lacking a good workout. No worries though....I did some weighted side bends and I'm hurting pretty bad this morning so I found something that seemed to work for me. Thanks again for your help though.

----------


## slfmade

Today is my First High Carb Day. Yaaaayyyy!!!!

The NO/Low Carb days I've been doing haven't been bad in terms of Hungar, and now that I've tweaked a few things it's made it easy. I'm Really Looking to my High Carb Day today just because I'm ready for some RICE. LOL...That's what I look forward to now....Rice!!!! Funny how things change. I can't imagine too many people saying "I can't wait to eat 2 cups of brown rice". I find it funny!

----------


## slfmade

So last Monday my weight was 190lbs. Today I weighed in at 180lbs exactly. That a 10lbs drop. I can't imagine it was all fat, but I'm praying I didn't lose any LBM. I'm thinking the majority of it was water weight. When I weighed in last week It was after a high carb day as opposed to today which was after 3 days of no carbs. I also think the clen is drying me out a bit as it seems it makes you sweat all the water out.

Still, it kinda scares me because I feel smaller which I know is bound to happen when cutting. I think before I change my diet around I'm gonna give it another week so I can compare apples to apples. 

I know this goes against the normal rules, but I think I'm gonna start tracking my weight 3 days per week. Once on Monday Morning (after High Carb day), again on Thursday Morning (after 3 days of Mod Carb), and on Sunday Morning(after the completion of that week). Hopefully this'll tell me a bit better how my body is responding to the fluctations in carbs and calories.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Yeh slf i went thru the same thing man  :Smilie:  my weight drop was about 5-6 lbs but i was going from a cutting low carb (100g) to the carb cycle.. Which is difft than u going from a bulk to carb cycle  :Smilie:  dont worry dude i felt small on sat and sundays too.. Enjoy ur rice (mine is oats and sweet potatoes) and by tuesday ull be g2g again  :Smilie:  if u notice in my thread i was worried last week 2 at 183 and went rite back up.. Also today i weighed 184 so 1lb heavier on same day of cycle and same circumstances.. 

I even read someqhere about the misleadingness( dont think tats a word  :Wink: ) of the scale while cycling carbs.. 

Curious to the tweaks u made???

P.s. I think im gonna eat 6cups oats today for my 300g  :Smilie:

----------


## slfmade

> Yeh slf i went thru the same thing man  my weight drop was about 5-6 lbs but i was going from a cutting low carb (100g) to the carb cycle.. Which is difft than u going from a bulk to carb cycle  dont worry dude i felt small on sat and sundays too.. Enjoy ur rice (mine is oats and sweet potatoes) and by tuesday ull be g2g again  if u notice in my thread i was worried last week 2 at 183 and went rite back up.. Also today i weighed 184 so 1lb heavier on same day of cycle and same circumstances.. 
> 
> I even read someqhere about the misleadingness( dont think tats a word ) of the scale while cycling carbs.. 
> 
> Curious to the tweaks u made???
> 
> P.s. I think im gonna eat 6cups oats today for my 300g


I haven't made any tweaks yet, but if I do it won't be adding carbs. It'll more than likely be increased protein and/or fats(my fats are currently on at about 30g/day) This way I'll have slightly higher calories. I just have this feeling in the pit of my stomach that my calories are too low. I think my carbs are fine, but I feel like my overall calories are just too much under TDEE. I'm at 1000cals under TDEE (and this is the TDEE scale that I use - not the one you use. If I were using the one you use I would probably be closer to 1500cals under TDEE) and that just makes me feel like I'm gonna lose LBM. For now though I'm gonna wait it out and see for another week.

----------


## slfmade

Oh and I'm doing 3 cups of brown rice and 2 cups of oats today!!! Just had my oats and I'm lovin it. Next two meals are 1 1/2 cups of brown rice each!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Fyi since were so close my macro breakdown is:
290g pro
150g carbs
42g fat 

This is moderate days.. I dont focus on cals just protein and carbs.. Let the fat fall where it falls.. I keep pro at 290 7 days per week..

----------


## RaginCajun

chuggin along i see. how are you liking the MT II? i am thinking about getting some. i think i am the same macros as you guys as well.

----------


## slfmade

> chuggin along i see. how are you liking the MT II? i am thinking about getting some. i think i am the same macros as you guys as well.


So far I like it. I'm about a week and half in and I'm getting darker. I've only been to the tanning beds once though. I think by the end of the month I should look pretty good tan wise. It kinda sucks injecting everyday (it doesn't hurt, it just seems like a chore) so I'll be glad to when I start my maintanence dose.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Chk out my latest post in my thread  :Wink:

----------


## slfmade

> Chk out my latest post in my thread


Link it next time, now I've gotta go find it. Damnit!!!! LOL

----------


## SexySweetheart

ok so I have been watching your post...waiting for some progress pix ~ sadly none lol
with all this dedication and hard work from you ... are you seeing any results yet?

----------


## slfmade

> ok so I have been watching your post...waiting for some progress pix ~ sadly none lol
> with all this dedication and hard work from you ... are you seeing any results yet?


I've only been doing my cut for 1 week so it's kinda hard to tell this early. I'll be doing bi-weekly progress pics. First set will be up a week from today!!!! So stay tuned!

----------


## SexySweetheart

i dont post much...but I def will be stayin tuned!!!
no pressure...great results take great time  :Wink:  regardless how you look, your bods healthy and strong ~ thats what truely matters  :Smilie:

----------


## slfmade

Well I finished high carb day yesterday and today starts the next three days of mod carbs.

I weighed in this morning hoping my weight went back up a little, but it's still at 180lbs.

Did 50min fasted LIC cardio this morning and I've got chest this afternoon. I'm excited about chest because after rest pause training I look huge!

----------


## gbrice75

> Well I finished high carb day yesterday


How did you feel today? How were your lifts?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Yeh slf i also did chest today  :Smilie:  we're on the same schedule.. I weighed 184 this am too just like yesterday .. Funny.. ActuLly got 225 for 6reps on incline today which is 1 more than i did last week..

----------


## slfmade

> How did you feel today? How were your lifts?


I feel good today. I don't hit the gym for another 4 hours. So I'll let you know how my lifts are afterwards.

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## slfmade

Just got back from doing my Chest workout and I feel great. I increased weight or reps on all of my lifts except for my last set. I had to drop weight on my last set of declines because my shoulder was acting up on me! I also added side bends to my ab workout. All in All - Great workout!

I would recommend dropsets and especially rest/pause to all of you. I can't wait to run this program for my next bulk. I can imagine someone using AAS would be able to make HUGE gains on such a program!

----------


## Standby

sounds great man. gotta get some pics up soon

----------


## slfmade

> sounds great man. gotta get some pics up soon


I'm doing photo's bi-weekly. First photo's of the cut results will be up this Sunday!!!

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> just got back from doing my chest workout and i feel great. I increased weight or reps on all of my lifts except for my last set. I had to drop weight on my last set of declines because my shoulder was acting up on me! I also added side bends to my ab workout. All in all - great workout!
> 
> *i would recommend dropsets and especially rest/pause to all of you. I can't wait to run this program for my next bulk. I can imagine someone using aas would be able to make huge gains on such a program!*




lol.  :Smilie:

----------


## slfmade

Oh...and thanks for recommending it sgt. Gotta give credit where credit is due!

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

I don't want credit, hell, it's not like it's my secret WO, I just want to see you big and shredded! I am glad you're enjoying it though......

----------


## Standby

i cant find the post where sgt explains the drop set and rest pause. or maybe it isnt even there? can someone point me in the direction or if im looking for something that was sent pm so i wont see it or what? thanks

----------


## slfmade

You can start at post 299...http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ng-log**/page8

You can also do like I did and do alot of reading. Sgt Recommended Hit Training (High Intensity Training) which includes rest pause, dropsets, forced negatives, static pauses, etc. I didn't wanta sound stupid by asking so I googled the shit out of it. LOL

----------


## Standby

> You can start at post 299...http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ng-log**/page8
> 
> You can also do like I did and do alot of reading. Sgt Recommended Hit Training (High Intensity Training) which includes rest pause, dropsets, forced negatives, static pauses, etc. I didn't wanta sound stupid by asking so I googled the shit out of it. LOL


lol i even looked over that page. stupid me i went all the way back to page 6 and didnt see this lol

----------


## slfmade

The main thing with this type of training is to make sure you're going balls to the wall with intensity. In my research I found some video's by Mike Mentzer. I would suggest you watch all of them. I've included a link here where I've started it towards the rest pause portion. This is the type of intensity I'm using and so should you! It's brutal!

http://youtu.be/Okdl-HK0Utw?t=3m24s

----------


## Standby

thanks slf. gunna watch some now

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

Here's a good HIT rest-pause WO by D7M http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...=#.T17IbJhuHHg

And drop setting explained by Marcus http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...=#.T17KQJhuHHg

I basically do a combination of the two, ie. I do rest-pause or drop sets for the different exercises of the same muscle group.

----------


## slfmade

So I wieghed in again this morning because I was curious and now I'm at 177.5lbs. That's a 12.5lb drop in 9 days!!! At this rate I'm gonna be a stick by the time I finish this cut. I'm gonna keep track of it, but if I'm under 175lbs on my next official weigh in this Sunday. I'm gonna have to do something different!

----------


## RaginCajun

> So I wieghed in again this morning because I was curious and now I'm at 177.5lbs. That's a 12.5lb drop in 9 days!!! At this rate I'm gonna be a stick by the time I finish this cut. I'm gonna keep track of it, but if I'm under 175lbs on my next official weigh in this Sunday. I'm gonna have to do something different!



damn, thats a lot of weight. has to a lot of water. something just doesn't add up

----------


## slfmade

> damn, thats a lot of weight. has to a lot of water. something just doesn't add up


I sure hope so, because if it's LBM I'm gonna be PISSED!!!!!!!!

----------


## RaginCajun

> I sure hope so, because if it's LBM I'm gonna be PISSED!!!!!!!!


how are your energy levels?

----------


## slfmade

> how are your energy levels?


Really good! But then again...I'm on 100mcg of clen right now too.

----------


## --->>405<<---

12.5lbs in 9days couldnt be LBM man  :Smilie:  couldnt be fat either IMO.. maybe if u weighed 800lbs LOL.. gotta be water.. what did u weigh sunday am?

----------


## slfmade

> 12.5lbs in 9days couldnt be LBM man  couldnt be fat either IMO.. maybe if u weighed 800lbs LOL.. gotta be water.. what did u weigh sunday am?


180.00 - You would think I would go up in weight after a high and mod carb day...but nope - Lost 2.5lbs since sunday. I agree I'm sure it's mostly water. I just hope some isn't LBM. Now it's in my head and I feel I look smaller!

----------


## RaginCajun

> Really good! But then again...I'm on 100mcg of clen right now too.



yup, prob a lot of water. make sure you are getting enough fluids. is your strength still going up? are you able to eat all of your cals/macros ok while taking clen and mtII?

----------


## slfmade

Yep...I'm going up on all my lifts. Eating all my meals. I'm drinking about 1 gallon of water per day and one gallon of Zero Calorie Arizona Diet Tea with Ginseng. I love that stuff

----------


## --->>405<<---

hmm arizona tea with ginseng? is it sweet?

----------


## slfmade

> hmm arizona tea with ginseng? is it sweet?


A little...it's made with splenda. I LOVE IT!!!! If you wanted something a little sweeter you can get the Lipton sugar free tea with citrus. It's pretty sweet. Maybe a little too sweet for me. Give em both a try!!!

----------


## slfmade

So I just finished my second week of legs and it was fvckin brutal!!!! I increased weight on all my lifts excepts for leg press which I kept weight the same, but increased my reps during rest pause by over 100%!!!! Last week my rest pause reps went5/2/2 for a total of 9 reps, and today I did 9/7/4 for a total of 20!!! So I'm pretty proud of myself but I am freaking beat!!!

I love everything about this workout except for leg day! I'm so happy that I don't have to do it for 7 more days!!!

----------


## slfmade

Did 50 min fasted LIC cardio this morning. 

It was a beautiful day here in Vegas today so Browngirl and I went out shopping. I came so close to stopping by the pub and grabbing a beer. I was justifying that I could cut back my carbs for some of my meals, but ended up coming home instead. I'm pretty proud of myself cause I love my beer and today would've been the perfect day for it. I would've felt really guilty anyway!

So some Good news. When I got home I tried on my goal trunks. I had these trunks when I was in the best shape of my life. I tried them on and they fit!!! Not only did they fit, but I look better in them now that I did back then. So that made me realize that I'm now in the best shape of my life.

----------


## slfmade

Just finished Back Routine. For some reason I felt really good today so I added 3x10 dumbell pullovers. I hadn't ever done them before tonight. I really like them a lot actually. I watched browngirl do them and her upper lat area was sticking out like a mans...lol...pretty impressive exercise. I doubt I'll ever put it into the main routine, but as an extra add on when I'm feeling pretty good.

For the last 3 months I've been lifting with a sweat shirt. I bought a tank top today for the gym and I was really happy with what I saw when I was working out. It's got me really excited about months to come!!!

----------


## gearbox

Great job Bro. Keep working that tank top.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> Just finished Back Routine. For some reason I felt really good today so I added 3x10 dumbell pullovers. I hadn't ever done them before tonight. I really like them a lot actually. I watched browngirl do them and her upper lat area was sticking out like a mans...lol...pretty impressive exercise. I doubt I'll ever put it into the main routine, but as an extra add on when I'm feeling pretty good.
> 
> *For the last 3 months I've been lifting with a sweat shirt*. I bought a tank top today for the gym and I was really happy with what I saw when I was working out. It's got me really excited about months to come!!!


Had to keep that pit hair covered up huh?  :Smilie:

----------


## slfmade

> Had to keep that pit hair covered up huh?


Of Course...Browngirl works out with me. If she caught those other girls lusting after me for being so manly...she would've had to kick some ass and I didn't want that. So I kept it covered.

----------


## --->>405<<---

All good stuff bro! Glad to hear..

----------


## --->>405<<---

As u can see slf im up past my bedtime  :Smilie:

----------


## slfmade

> As u can see slf im up past my bedtime


Yes you are!!! Are you gonna be making those changes in your diet? I still haven't had a chance to read that book yet. I guess it's not really an excuse though because I'm on here now instead of reading it.lol

----------


## slfmade

Update: Did 50min LIC Fasted cardio this morning. I'm thinking about buying a kindle or something so I can read some of these ebooks while I'm bored out of my mind with this LIC cardio. lol

It was a non-lift day today, and I'm really looking forward to arms, shoulders, and abs tomorrow. It'll be the first time I've done arms in a tank instead of sweat shirt. I might take some pictures and post them.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Yeh i believe i will be changn diet and workout completely.. Planning on running at maintenance next week and then startn the following monday..

First 4 days will be at 50% tdee and 50g carbs .. Followed by a 6000cal refeed and 2 maintenance days startn with higher carb and reducing down to low carb to restart 7day cycle again.. Gotta get diet togethr over the next week.. Gonna be very difft from wat ive been doing in a lot of ways but then similar in some ways.. 

Workouts will be depletive total body 2 days and then another total body but heavier then the massive refeed and a heavy total body again.. 

The idea behind the massive refeed is thru previous days' diet plus workouts the refeed nutrients should be partitioned into muscle glycogen and muscle in general as opposed to stored as fat.. Very interested in this..

Also curious to hear wat GB say about it.. He endorses the guy so i woukd guess hell endorse the diet..?? We'll see..

----------


## bikeral

Hey slf how is that MT2 working out for ya.

----------


## slfmade

> Yeh i believe i will be changn diet and workout completely.. Planning on running at maintenance next week and then startn the following monday..
> 
> First 4 days will be at 50% tdee and 50g carbs .. Followed by a 6000cal refeed and 2 maintenance days startn with higher carb and reducing down to low carb to restart 7day cycle again.. Gotta get diet togethr over the next week.. Gonna be very difft from wat ive been doing in a lot of ways but then similar in some ways.. 
> 
> Workouts will be depletive total body 2 days and then another total body but heavier then the massive refeed and a heavy total body again.. 
> 
> The idea behind the massive refeed is thru previous days' diet plus workouts the refeed nutrients should be partitioned into muscle glycogen and muscle in general as opposed to stored as fat.. Very interested in this..
> 
> Also curious to hear wat GB say about it.. He endorses the guy so i woukd guess hell endorse the diet..?? We'll see..


Sounds interesting. The total body workout part makes this diet a NO-GO for me. I'm so burned out on full body workouts that the very thought of it just pisses me off. LOL

I wish you all the best though. I know you're gonna love those 6000cal days!!!

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## slfmade

> Hey slf how is that MT2 working out for ya.


I really like the MT2...It's working out very well. I've only been using for 2 weeks and I've only been to the beds twice, and I'm getting pretty damn dark. Everybody has been noticing it. I think one more tan and I'll be set.

I'll be taking some pics tonight after the gym...or that's my plan anyway. You should be able to notice a difference if the camera shows it. Check back in

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## slfmade

Did 50 min fasted LIC cardio this morning. It was very boring as usual. This clen makes me put in very little effort to reach my 75% heartrate. Oh well....

I've got arms/shoulders/abs tonight. I plan on hitting it pretty hard and taking some shirt on pics tonight. Then sunday morning will be my official pics. We'll see if you guys notice a difference.

----------


## bikeral

> I really like the MT2...It's working out very well. I've only been using for 2 weeks and I've only been to the beds twice, and I'm getting pretty damn dark. Everybody has been noticing it. I think one more tan and I'll be set.
> 
> I'll be taking some pics tonight after the gym...or that's my plan anyway. You should be able to notice a difference if the camera shows it. Check back in


Great thanks

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## --->>405<<---

Ive read (i think by lyle mcdonald) that if ur on stims dont go by ur heartrate at the time.. Go by the amt effort u normally put out .. The stims make heartrate false...

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## slfmade

> Ive read (i think by lyle mcdonald) that if ur on stims dont go by ur heartrate at the time.. Go by the amt effort u normally put out .. The stims make heartrate false...


Hummm...That's interesting. Did he explain how that works?

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## --->>405<<---

U have the same info on ur laptop.. Or desktop .. I think its in stubborn fat solution.. Where hes talkn bout how cardio is rated based on perceived effort.. Stims create a false heartrate.. U should base ur cardio on perceived effort.. If that makes sense..  :Smilie:  funny how much info i retained .. Usually my reading comprehension sucks!  :Smilie:

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## gonnagethuge

Hey man good job.

I was wondering how the drop set and rest pause style workout is working out for you? how are you feeling with i health and recovery wise?

Do you use these techniques for just one set per workout? I've been reading a bit about this type of training and a bit unsure of the best approach. The thread that sgt linked earlier in your thread basically described every execise being worked in this manner 'twice' whereas i've read elsewhere that due to the intensity of these routines, only one work set per bodypart shold be worked in this manner.

I trained legs and shoulders like this recently and for the first time in my life i thought i was going to be sick. I did regular 3x12 style quats followed by leg press using drops sets then calf raises using drop sets. I then did shoulder press using drop sets followed by regular 3x8-10 lateral raises. i couldnt imagine adding any more working drop sets or even rest pause on top of this. I struggled to keep my protein shake down afterwards lol. 

Despite all this, i feel that when optimised properly to suit, then this will be an amazing routine. The feeling was pretty incredible on shoulders particularly.

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## slfmade

> Hey man good job.
> 
> I was wondering how the drop set and rest pause style workout is working out for you? how are you feeling with i health and recovery wise?
> 
> Do you use these techniques for just one set per workout? I've been reading a bit about this type of training and a bit unsure of the best approach. The thread that sgt linked earlier in your thread basically described every execise being worked in this manner 'twice' whereas i've read elsewhere that due to the intensity of these routines, only one work set per bodypart shold be worked in this manner.
> 
> I trained legs and shoulders like this recently and for the first time in my life i thought i was going to be sick. I did regular 3x12 style quats followed by leg press using drops sets then calf raises using drop sets. I then did shoulder press using drop sets followed by regular 3x8-10 lateral raises. i couldnt imagine adding any more working drop sets or even rest pause on top of this. I struggled to keep my protein shake down afterwards lol. 
> 
> Despite all this, i feel that when optimised properly to suit, then this will be an amazing routine. The feeling was pretty incredible on shoulders particularly.


If you go back through the pages...you'll see my workout. I only do the dropsets and rest pause on compound movements only and only one per bodypart. So for instance my leg workout looks something like:

Leg Press- Warmup followed by dropset followed by 3 sets of rest pause. With the exception of the 10sec rest in between the rest pause group there should be no breaks.

Then I superset 3x10 of my isolation movements - Leg Ext, Leg Curls, Calf raises...............and that's it. Get in Get out

I've heard of people doing more than one dropset, forced negative, static pause, rest pause, basically HIT style, but I'm not ready for that yet. This is my first experience with HIT and you really wanta work yourself into it to avoid injury. IMO HIT training should not exceed 6-8 week at a time.

If I were you I would research all you can both here and elsewhere...watch the mike mentzer video's on youtube. Then put together a program that you think will work and we'll take a look at it.

Good Luck

----------


## slfmade

Excuse my posing in these pics. I have no idea how to do it correctly. I wanted to take these at the gym, but I started to think about how much of an idiot I would seem if I was doing it there (It's fine for the big guys, but I would've felt foolish) so I waited til I got home 20 min later and I lost the majority of my pump.

Still though...you can see that I've made impressive gains since the beginning of all this. Or at least I feel I have. 

I still have some more definition I need to get in my arms, but I'm sure that will come as I continue to lose Body Fat. The shirt off pics will come this Sunday.


BSP1 by slfmade, on Flickr

BFP by slfmade, on Flickr

SBP1 by slfmade, on Flickr

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## slfmade

To put things a little more in perspective...

Here was where I was a little less than *10 weeks ago*.

9199bb38c660696d595d_4 by slfmade, on Flickr

*AND NOW*


BSP1 by slfmade, on Flickr

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## BrownGirl

You look amazing honey!!  :Big Grin:

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## bikeral

Dude fantastic job. Keep logging results. I may need to ask you some training tips.

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## Sgt. Hartman

Great job man. 

You're right on with your arms, get your body fat lower and as you get some separation your arms will actually appear bigger. 

How much longer do you have til your deadline?

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## slfmade

> Great job man. 
> 
> You're right on with your arms, get your body fat lower and as you get some separation your arms will actually appear bigger. 
> 
> How much longer do you have til your deadline?


8 weeks

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## --->>405<<---

lookn good slf.. can def see where the bulk added size  :Smilie: 

and im with u on the pics in the gym.. LOL... i take some but its always when im the only one in there..

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## slfmade

Just finished 50min fasted LIC Cardio.

So as I stated before I've got 8 weeks left on this cut. This week concluded my first two weeks of HIT Training. It seems either somebody told me, or I read somewhere, that you should not run HIT for longer than 6 weeks. If I just did 6 weeks that would leave me with 4 weeks left in my cut. What should I do then? OR....Can I do HIT for 8-10 weeks? I'm just trying to plan some things out because if 6 weeks is the max. I've only got 4 weeks left to figure something else out.

Thanks

----------


## SexySweetheart

Great pix ~ brave man  :Smilie: 
Compared to the pix you once posted on an older thread... the results are very visible! Most cert def. bulk added!

you must be very pleased! *CONGRATS*!!!

----------


## slfmade

Alright Picture Time!!! This is after the first 2 weeks of my cut. I started at 190lbs and now I'm at 176lbs. I still obviously have some fat to lose, but after only 2 weeks I can see a difference! What do you guys think? I didn't have enough time to do my measurements today so that'll have to come in another 2 weeks.


1st Cut Progress Pics by slfmade, on Flickr

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## MickeyKnox

for gawds sakes, shave the pit hair! 

and yeah great job man! big improvements for sure bro!

----------


## slfmade

> for gawds sakes, shave the pit hair! 
> 
> and yeah great job man! big improvements for sure bro!


LOL - Nope...sorry. I'm from the south and my family would probably drag me behind the tractor if they saw me with shave pits.

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## --->>405<<---

^^ definite progress! U look leaner and bigger now  :Smilie:  good work bro..

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## --->>405<<---

Yeh i dont get the shaved pit thing?

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## slfmade

> ^^ definite progress! U look leaner and bigger now  good work bro..


Thanks Man - We'll see what another 8 weeks can do. I'm a little worried though. You know the first week of this carb cycle I lost 12lbs. Most all water weight I'm sure. This last week I lost 2lbs. 2lbs sounds about right; however if I continue that pace for the next 8 weeks I'm gonna be 160lbs. I just wanta get rid of these damn love handles and a little fat off my arms, but I'm afraid now that It's gonna be that subborn fat that takes forever to lose and in turn I get to small.

I don't know. That cycle is getting more appealing by the day, but also less likely. I was hoping to go into the cycle in Nov at 180lbs 10% BF, but it's looking like that's not gonna happen because I'm gonna have to do another bulk. Maybe this summer I'll just try for a super lean bulk.

----------


## slfmade

> Yeh i dont get the shaved pit thing?


You don't get why I don't, or you don't get why other people do?

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## --->>405<<---

LOL.. I dont get why other guys wanna shave their pits.. Although i shave my entire body other than so who am i to question lol.. 

A quickie for cutting stubborn fat cardio wise:

Sfp1.0 
5min warm up
10-20min HIIT
20-40 min moderate (130-140bpm)
5 min cool down

Sfp2.0
5min warmup
10-20min hiit
20-40min moderate
10-20min hiit
5min cooldown

Hiit in beginning releases fat into bloodstream , moderate cardio burns it.. Simple but basic premise.. He suggests no more than 2times/week.. Said some special people mite get 3.. (this is the 2.0 im referring to) also wat im doing.. Im pussing out the new diet til post cruise.. I put on bThing suit today and i must say im lookn pretty dang good! Dont wanna screw it up  :Smilie:  

Will be doing it when i get back though..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Also i know u hate total body but i suggest u look towards the bottom of ultimate diet 2.0 at the "monday/tuesday" day1/day2 depletion workouts.. Ive learnd about doing them from gbrice and lyle recommends them in the first 2days of "low carb days" of the (or any i would guess) carb cycle.. 

Im gonna do them on thurs and fri of my current carb cycle and also combine the cardio along with prob 2days. Fasted cardio to try and ramp up this bf drop.. Mite be worth at least looking over .. Thought id tell u  :Smilie:

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

Great job man, you're 3 or so pounds lighter than when you started but have added a significant amount of lbm and lost a good bit of fat. 

You look bigger now than when you were 188. Compare the 188 pic to the 176 pic and tell me you disagree. 

I don't think you need to look for ways to expedite fat loss right now. Just keep doing what you're doing and you can adjust if necessary, but for right now I think you're where you need to be.

Stop worrying so much, you have 8 weeks left and you don't have 16 more lbs of fat to lose so just keep monitoring your progress and you can make adjustments when necessary. But no need to adjust yet IMO.

----------


## slfmade

> LOL.. I dont get why other guys wanna shave their pits.. Although i shave my entire body other than so who am i to question lol.. 
> 
> A quickie for cutting stubborn fat cardio wise:
> 
> Sfp1.0 
> 5min warm up
> 10-20min HIIT
> 20-40 min moderate (130-140bpm)
> 5 min cool down
> ...


*It sounds interesting. I'm gonna finish reading all of that soon. I've made the decision that I'm gonna stick to my current diet/training no matter what....UNLESS...I start to lose too much LBM. The way I see it is...how will I ever truly know how a program works (Good or Bad)if I don't see it through. I've gotta see results for myself. I will more than likely give this a go toward the end of the summer for my prime before cycle.

As you may or may not know...BrownGirl and I will be semi-retiring in a couple of months. We'll still have our furniture business, but with the exception a natural disaster it's gonna be pretty hands off. So to keep me busy doing something I love...I'm putting some serious thought into personal training and doing a fitness bootcamp when we move. I feel in order to be most productive, I need to know what different diet and training routines actually do...obviously it will be different for different people, but I really want to experiment with different things. So for now...I think it would be best to stick with what I have.

If the love handles aren't VERY close to being gone in 6 weeks I'll give the cardio routine you gave me a shot. I already bookmarked this page so I didn't have to search for it later. Thanks for the help*




> Also i know u hate total body but i suggest u look towards the bottom of ultimate diet 2.0 at the "monday/tuesday" day1/day2 depletion workouts.. Ive learnd about doing them from gbrice and lyle recommends them in the first 2days of "low carb days" of the (or any i would guess) carb cycle.. 
> 
> Im gonna do them on thurs and fri of my current carb cycle and also combine the cardio along with prob 2days. Fasted cardio to try and ramp up this bf drop.. Mite be worth at least looking over .. Thought id tell u


It's not that I hate total body routines...I'm just so burned out on them after doing the same thing 3/week for the last 8 weeks. I'm loving this HIT training, and I don't want to break away from it right now. I guess I could do HIT Mon-Wed, and do total body on Friday, but I would be concerned that this wouldn't be sufficent rest after the intensity I train with mon-wed. Since SGT...is the HIT expert on this thread maybe he can offer his input.

I will give this a go for sure when the time comes for my prime.

----------


## slfmade

> Great job man, you're 3 or so pounds lighter than when you started but have added a significant amount of lbm and lost a good bit of fat. 
> 
> You look bigger now than when you were 188. Compare the 188 pic to the 176 pic and tell me you disagree. 
> 
> I don't think you need to look for ways to expedite fat loss right now. Just keep doing what you're doing and you can adjust if necessary, but for right now I think you're where you need to be.
> 
> Stop worrying so much, you have 8 weeks left and you don't have 16 more lbs of fat to lose so just keep monitoring your progress and you can make adjustments when necessary. But no need to adjust yet IMO.


Thanks SGT....I do see a significant difference between the 188 and 176 pics. My arms seem a lot bigger, but my pecs seem smaller. I guess that's due to some fat loss????? My pecs have always been very hard for me to grow in comparison to everything else. Which sucks because that's one of the most important things that I feel makes a good physique, Although I'm sure if my shoulders were lagging I would feel the same way about them. LOL

I know it's hard to guess, but if you had to, how close do you think I am to 10% right now? I also have a lot of pics of back double bi's. I just haven't posted them because it's embarassing. LOL I can email them to you if that would help?

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ yeh man just so we're clear i wasnt suggesting u quit ur current program.. just thought id post what ive learned about depletion workouts and the 2 cardio routines so that if u felt so inclined u mite do some *in addition to* wat ur currently doing :Smilie: 

the depletion is designed specifically do deplete muscle glycogen in order to make the low carb days more effective.. i forgot about ur HIT training and that def mite make it where u dont want to add a workout in on top.. for myself cuz my LBM is maintaining/increasing i am gonna add 2 depletion workouts in on low carb days and drop the arms/shoulders/abs cuz ill be doing them anyways as well as add 2 sfp cardio sessions to try and expedite fatloss.. if my LBM goes down ill re-evaluate  :Smilie: 

i wasnt suggesting to drop the HIT  :Smilie:  since we both have similar situations (goal dates) its prob a good idea to stay with what u know is working diet-wise as well which is why i decided to wait til post-cruise.. i def think the 2.0diet is worth trying though if for no other reason to get to experience a 6000cal 1250g carb refeed! LOL

----------


## baseline_9

Here is a good artice about mass gains... If you want more info check out his site.... Bodyrecomposition.com  :Smilie: *General Philosophies of Muscle Mass Gain.... Lyle McDonald*

Because of the primary focus of my books and many of my article topics I tend to get tagged as the fat-loss guy more often than not; but nutrition and training for muscle gain is actually a primary interest of mine. Having worked with bodybuilders, powerlifters and other athletes over the years, figuring out how to put muscle mass on them (in terms of both training and nutrition) is obviously important.
In this article (which will actually form an introduction to a series of articles I’ll be doing over the next several weeks and months), I want to talk about some basic concepts related to mass gaining nutrition, primarily looking at some of the different philosophies of mass-gaining that are out there. As usually, I’ll look at each in my normal way, looking at the various pros and cons of each approach.
And, of course, I’ll give my own recommendations for what I think is actually optimal for most trainees under most circumstances. Please note my use of the word ‘most’ in that sentence; there are always exceptions, situations where I might do something different. Here I’m speaking more in generalities.

*Old School Bulking/Cutting*

In the olden days of bodybuilding, the standard approach to gaining muscle mass was to get big and fat in the off-season and this was called bulking. In modern terms this is generally referred to as GFH which stands for Get ****ing Huge
Both approaches revolve around the same concept: trainees train their balls off and eat as much as they can force down, gaining weight (and body fat) rapidly. In the old days, guys would then diet like maniacs and there are stories of guys bulking up to over 300 pounds before dropping to sub-200 pounds for their contest. Yes, insanity. Dieting is a little bit more sane now and it usually takes a good 6-12 months for the fat boys to get lean again.
I’d note that, to some degree, this idea still exists today among some professional bodybuilders. For example, here’s Lee Priest in the off-season and in competition condition.


There are also a good many stories of big strong powerlifters dieting down to seriously amazing bodybuilding levels of leanness and development. Dave Gulledge is a particularly good example, here’s pictures of him before leaning out and after.

So there’s clearly some merit to the ‘get big and strong and FAT’ approach to gaining muscle mass. When the trainee gets the fat off (which may take a year or more depending on the degree of fatness), assuming they don’t diet too badly and lose all the muscle, they often look absolutely amazing. It’s also a lot of fun to just eat and eat and eat and not care where the calories come from. Pizza, donuts, candy bars, whatever gets the calories down the pie-hole is good to go.
What isn’t usually talked about is the supporting ‘elements’ (read: drugs) that are involved here. Between increasing the amount of muscle mass gained while the folks in question get big and fat (and increasing the total amount of muscle that can be held) to sparing muscle loss while they diet off 150 pounds of lard, the drugs make a huge difference.

But the GFH approach to mass gain can backfire badly for naturals as there are biological limits to both the rate of muscle gain (per day or per week) as well as the maximum amount of muscle a natural lifter can carry. Simply, I don’t think this is generally ideal for the natural bodybuilder or athlete to gain muscle mass.
Athletes can’t usually afford to get that fat in the first place (performance suffers) and excess fat gain while gaining muscle mass for bodybuilders just means that much longer of a diet to get it back off. As mentioned above, and discussed below, given a maximum weekly rate of muscle gain, gaining weight at too fast a rate simply means that much more fat is being gained without increasing the rate of muscle mass gain.
Even for non-competitive bodybuilders, assuming the trainee is actually training for appearance reasons, getting excessively big and fat for part of the year really isn’t consistent with that goal. If you’re training for looks, ruining them by getting super fat just doesn’t make sense. That’s on top of other potential negatives of the GFH approach such as stretch marks and the potential to permanently increase the bodies set point (making it harder to get and stay lean when you diet back down).
I should note that, for very skinny folks or those looking for the most rapid rate of gain to reach their genetic limits, there is something to be said for the GFH philosophy. But, for most, I generally feel that the cons outweigh the pros and outside of a situation like a pro-football player or someone who just needed to get big and strong fast and didn’t care about the excess fat gain (or actually needed it to be competitive), I’d be unlikely to recommend this approach.

*Lean Gaining*

At the other extreme is the near obsession with lean-gaining, the idea being that folks are going to gain muscle mass without putting on an ounce of body-fat. Some supplements actually catered to this and the big fad in the 90′s were low-calorie mass gainers, products that claimed to magically put muscle on people without providing excess calories. And they did increase lean weight but only because they all contained creatine which increases lean body mass (via water retention) by several pounds. Thankfully, that fad has gone.
Lean gaining is usually based around insanely meticulous calorie and nutrient counting and timing, an obsession with clean eating, etc. without ever actually providing sufficient nutrients to grow at any meaningful rate. When you hear someone say that you can’t put on more than three pounds of muscle in a year, this is who you’re usually talking to: the guys who won’t allow even an ounce of fat gain. Or you’re talking to a natural bodybuilder who’s been at it for 10 years and is near his genetic limit. But it’s usually the lean-obsessed guys who aren’t gaining jack squat for muscle in a year.
The benefits of the lean-gaining approach, mind you, are that you get to look great year round; of course if your goal is contest bodybuilding (or sports), it also means literally no dieting time. If you model or make your living based on your physique, being able to do a photo shoot within a few weeks (or days) notice may be financially beneficial as well. This tends not to represent the majority of obsessives who try to use the lean-gaining approach.
The simple fact is that a bodybuilder who refuses to gain any fat and doesn’t put on any muscle between shows won’t be improving year to year. Unless they have perfect symmetry, size, shape, etc. their fear of body fat is preventing them from ever getting any better.
Athletes often have to add muscle mass (to improve strength, power or move up a weight class) and often don’t have very long to do it. Keeping calories too low year round hurts improvements in both mass and strength gains and even weight class athletes such as Olympic Lifters and Powerlifters usually train at a weight slightly higher than their weight class: this lets them eat more food, train more effectively and make faster gains; they can always drop weight and fat when needed.
The simple fact is that the body needs not only an appropriate training stimulus but also sufficient building blocks (protein, amino acids) AND sufficient dietary energy (calories) for maximal improvements. I discuss this in some detail in Calorie Partitioning Part 1 and Calorie Partitioning Part 2. Staying excessively lean (which means either doing tons of cardio, restricting calories, or both) isn’t consistent with the goal of trying to get stronger and more muscular for the most part.
Another drawback to the whole lean-gaining thing is that the meticulous attention to nutrition every day can drive people crazy. Of course, bodybuilders are usually a bit nutso anyhow and orthorexia is a very real eating-disorder. But worrying about every gram of everything that you eat every day of your life can drive some people insane (more insane); it also triggers some awesome binges when they lose control for even a second.
Before moving on, I would note that some lean gaining approaches, notably the mass variant of my own Ultimate Diet 2.0, as well as some of the intermittent fasting approaches (such as Martin Berkhan’s Lean Gains) take a more relaxed approach to the idea of gaining muscle mass while limiting fat gain. Rather than being based around keeping calories pretty low/controlled all the time, they are based around the short-term (1-3 days) alternation of low and high-calorie intakes.
The lowered calorie periods limit or reduce fat gains while the high-calorie periods support growth and gains. There’s more flexibility, trainees get some big-eating periods (helping to stave off insanity and binges) and there are other benefits of them for people who are determined to stay lean year round but want to actually gain some muscle mass. But these approaches are typically much different than the ‘typical’ approach to lean-gaining.
As well, for many they are simply not worth the time or energy investment and I want to describe what I feel is perhaps an ‘ideal’ approach to gaining mass (over the long-term) without either getting too fat or limiting gains by staying too lean.
Before getting to that, I need to discuss something that will not make a lot of readers happy.

*How Fast Can You Actually Gain Muscle Mass?*

We live in an instant gratification society and are constantly bombarded with amazing claims; while this is probably most true in the world of weight loss, it’s not much different when it comes to muscle gain.
Magazines advertise 20 pounds or rock hard muscle in a mere 8-10 weeks, a supplement promises 5 lbs of muscle in 3 days or whatever; all around we see claims of rapid gains in muscle mass. Sadly, this is all basically bullshit. Yeah, with glycogen loading or creatine you can increase lean body mass (not the same as muscle mass) fairly rapidly but beyond that, skeletal muscle actually grows fairly slowly.
How slowly?
On average, a natural male doing everything right will be doing very well to gain 1/2 of pound muscle per week. A female might gain half that or about 1/2 pound muscle every 2 weeks.
Let’s put that in perspective: over a full year of training, assuming the trainee is doing everything right, that’s 26 pounds of the good stuff for men (13 pounds for women). Which, if you think about it, actually isn’t that awful. It’s simply awful compared to what people think they are going to get based on the false promises in the magazines (or the claims of drug using bodybuilders).
That assumes that half-pound is gained week-in, week-out for the entire year. Oddly, and somewhat tangentially, it usually doesn’t work that way. Trainees may go a long time with no measurable gains and then wake up several pounds heavier seemingly overnight. I have no idea why, that’s just how it usually works.
I’d note that, under the right conditions (usually underweight high school kids), much faster rates of gain are often seen or reported. But these tend to be exceptions to the rule more than the norm and since I’m usually writing for the average male trainee who’s not 15 years old with raging hormones, I don’t consider those values very illustrative. And, occasionally, when the stars are right, and everything clicks, a true one pound per week of muscle mass gain may be seen for short periods. But again, that tends to be the exception.

Let me reiterate: the average male trainee is doing well to gain about 1/2 pound muscle per week, 2 pounds per month or about 24-26 pounds per year. I’d note that that will generally only happen in the first year of training and things slow down after that. A female may be gaining about half that much, 1 pound per month of actual muscle tissue or 10-12 pounds per year. I know it sucks but that’s reality.
I bring this up as it has some relevance to the weekly rate of weight gain that is acceptable for what I’m going to describe next.

*A Happy Medium: Bulk a Little, Cut a Little*

As many know, and altogether too many don’t know or realize, I’m usually a happy medium kind of guy. I find most extremist stances to be flawed and usually end up somewhere between the two in my recommendations; that’s on top of trying to look at the context of a given trainee’s situation. This is true for training, diet and most everything else you care to name. It’s certainly true for the topic of this article.
As noted above, there’s no doubt that gaining some fat will allow a faster rate of muscle gain. The drawback is that, gain too much fat and dieting time is extended and appearance suffers. And while staying lean is nice from an appearance standpoint, trying to stay too lean all the time tends to hurt mass and strength gains because the trainee simply can’t eat enough.
The solution of course is to simply alternate shorter periods of mass-gaining (let’s not use the term bulking since it seems to cause people so many mental problems) where the goal is maximal muscle gains while accepting small amounts of fat gain before dropping into a short dieting phase to strip off the fat without losing any of the muscle gain.
Please read the bold bits carefully, they are the key to all of this. What’s ideal for most situations in my experience is to try to maximize muscle gain (smart training, slight caloric surplus) by allowing a small amount of fat gain to occur. While this causes the trainee to get fatter (this should be done without getting outright FAT), this also maximizes the rate of muscle gain. While dieting, of course, the goal should always be to limit muscle mass losses (as outlined in pretty much any of my books). Done properly, alternating mass gain with proper dieting, the end result is more muscle mass.
This idea isn’t new mind you, and has probably been around for 30-40 years or more (McCallum wrote about it in The Keys to Progress and Dan Duchaine was an advocate of this approach). I simply happen to think it’s superior for most applications to either GFH or the ‘Gotta stay ripped year round crew’ for the average natural bodybuilder or athlete (or simply individuals interested in gaining muscle mass).
So let’s put some numbers and guidelines to this.

1. First and foremost, for reasons outlined in my article Initial Body Fat and Body Composition Changes, trainees should not be starting out their muscle gaining phase too fat. Males should be ~10-12% body fat before even considering going on any kind of ‘bulk’ (fatter trainees can usually gain some muscle while losing fat with a basic recomposition plan; this is beyond the scope of this article). For a female, this would be roughly equivalent to 19-24% body fat.
Bodybuilders with contest aspirations might even start out a little bit leaner, perhaps 8% for males and 17-20% for females; this is simply to facilitate getting into contest shape in less time. Any leaner than that and hormones and energy tend to suffer. And, yes, this means that many will have to diet first before they even consider putting on muscle. That’s life.

2. It would be ideal, if, after dieting, the trainee took two weeks at maintenance to stabilize at the new body fat level. The reasons for this are numerous but revolve around letting some of the hormonal adaptations to dieting normalize. I’ve written about this endlessly on the site and my full diet break concept is outlined in detail in both The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook and A Guide to Flexible Dieting. Briefly, take two weeks at roughly maintenance calories with at least 150 grams/day of carbohydrate.

3. Now you can start gaining weight. Assuming relative average partitioning (not superior or inferior), a weight gain of approximately one pound per week (of which half should be muscle) and half a pound per week for females (of which half should be muscle), or 4 and 2 pounds/month respectively should roughly maximize muscle gains without excessive fat gain. There will be some fat gain, of course, but, simply, any faster rate of weight gain (I’ve seen folks suggest 2-3 pounds per week) will only increase fat gain without increasing the rate of muscle mass gain.

4. When the trainee hits a body fat percentage of approximately 15% for men (24-27% for women), the mass gaining phase should end. How long this take will depend on the size of the person but realistically, a 170 pound male trainee with 10% body fat could gain 16 pounds (8 pounds fat, 8 pounds muscle) before hitting the 15% mark. At one pound per week, that’s 16 weeks of gaining. Which, I’d note should be broken up into at least two separate training blocks.
A female starting at 130 pounds and 19% body fat could realistically get to 154 pounds (12 pound fat/12 pounds lean) before hitting 24% body fat. For the female trainee, at one half-pound per week is nearly a year of training; again that would be broken up into distinct training phases.

5. After finishing the mass-gaining phase, a consolidation phase of two weeks (this used to be called a ‘hardening’ phase) where calories are brought back down to maintenance levels (and cardio, if not being done, is brought in) should occur before actively dieting.
Of course, the diet itself is a completely separate topic, some prefer to lose as slowly as they’ve gained, others are using the ideas in my Rapid Fat Loss Handbook to strip off the fat as rapidly as possible so that they can get back to gaining again. Both are valid and my article series on Fat Loss for Athletes is worth reading for more information.
Let me summarize the above a little more briefly: trainees should set a bottom and top-end for acceptable body fat levels. For males, 10-15% is a good range, for females 19-27% or so works. Diet down until you hit the low end, stabilize for two weeks, gain until you hit the high end, stabilize for two weeks, then diet back down while keeping the muscle. Over many months or a year of training, you should end up with more muscle than you started with which is the whole goal

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## slfmade

Thanks Base. I'll read this when I get home. 

I've read the first paragraph about 12 times. LOL I'm at work and everytime I get started the phone rings or somebody walks through the door. I give up til I get home.

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## Awesome_Archy

> LOL - Nope...sorry. I'm from the south and my family would probably drag me behind the tractor if they saw me with shave pits.


Agreed, I can admit to beating some since into a good friend who shaved his legs once.

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## Sgt. Hartman

> Thanks SGT....I do see a significant difference between the 188 and 176 pics. My arms seem a lot bigger, but my pecs seem smaller. I guess that's due to some fat loss????? My pecs have always been very hard for me to grow in comparison to everything else. Which sucks because that's one of the most important things that I feel makes a good physique, Although I'm sure if my shoulders were lagging I would feel the same way about them. LOL
> 
> I know it's hard to guess, but if you had to, how close do you think I am to 10% right now? I also have a lot of pics of back double bi's. I just haven't posted them because it's embarassing. LOL I can email them to you if that would help?


You don't have anything to be embarrassed about but just pm them to me if you want. Pretty impossible to guess BF from that one pose.

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## slfmade

> You don't have anything to be embarrassed about but just pm them to me if you want. Pretty impossible to guess BF from that one pose.


PM sent

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## slfmade

> 4. When the trainee hits a body fat percentage of approximately 15% for men (24-27% for women), the mass gaining phase should end. How long this take will depend on the size of the person but realistically, a 170 pound male trainee with 10% body fat could gain 16 pounds (8 pounds fat, 8 pounds muscle) before hitting the 15% mark. At one pound per week, *thats 16 weeks of gaining. Which, Id note should be broken up into at least two separate training blocks.*A female starting at 130 pounds and 19% body fat could realistically get to 154 pounds (12 pound fat/12 pounds lean) before hitting 24% body fat. For the female trainee, at one half-pound per week is nearly a year of training; again that would be broken up into distinct training phases.


Hey Base....What exactly does he mean by "two seperate training blocks" in the bold above. Does he mean to take a break after 8 weeks and then do 8 weeks again, or just change your workout routine after the first 8 weeks?

Thanks

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## RaginCajun

> Great job man, you're 3 or so pounds lighter than when you started but have added a significant amount of lbm and lost a good bit of fat. 
> 
> *You look bigger now* than when you were 188. Compare the 188 pic to the 176 pic and tell me you disagree. 
> 
> I don't think you need to look for ways to expedite fat loss right now. Just keep doing what you're doing and you can adjust if necessary, but for right now I think you're where you need to be.
> 
> Stop worrying so much, you have 8 weeks left and you don't have 16 more lbs of fat to lose so just keep monitoring your progress and you can make adjustments when necessary. But no need to adjust yet IMO.



^^^^^this! you are making it happen and i agree with sgt and 405. 8 weeks is a long time so you go this!

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## slfmade

> ^^^^^this! you are making it happen and i agree with sgt and 405. 8 weeks is a long time so you go this!


Thanks RC- I appreciate all the support!

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## slfmade

I had a lot going at work this morning so I didn't have time to do my 50 min fasted cardio. I knew this going in so I just did 20 min HIIT instead.

Just got back from the gym a little while ago. Had chest today. I couldn't go up in weight but I increased my reps on everything....so baby steps. I'm looking forward to seeing where I'm at in another 2 weeks.

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## --->>405<<---

up in reps or weight is progress  :Smilie:

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## slfmade

Yeah....I'm not complaining

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## Back In Black

I know I don't post here really but I do stop by regularly. Definite progress man. I recommend more of the same.

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## slfmade

> I know I don't post here really but I do stop by regularly. Definite progress man. I recommend more of the same.


Well start posting more regularly then!!! lol....I value all the opinions I get. Any advice or help you ever have, feel free to post it up.

I wish more people would follow the logs. The more help the better.

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## slfmade

Well today is my 3rd Leg day since I started HIT. Normally I wear my sweats, but today I'm gonna throw on some shorts. I might try to take some pics and post them up so you guys can critique.

I ask this question earlier, but nobody ever answered....What is the max time frame I can do HIT without running a risk of injury? I'm on week 3 right now, and my cut will be over is 6.5 weeks. If I ran HIT all the way through that would make 10 weeks doing HIT. IF I can't do this...what type a program would the best to follow a HIT program?

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## baseline_9

> Hey Base....What exactly does he mean by "two seperate training blocks" in the bold above. Does he mean to take a break after 8 weeks and then do 8 weeks again, or just change your workout routine after the first 8 weeks?
> 
> Thanks


I think he means to blast for a period, take a de-load and then go again...

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## slfmade

> I think he means to blast for a period, take a de-load and then go again...


Ah...that makes sense.

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## slfmade

Just finished with Leg day. I came the closest to puking today as I have in a while and BrownGirl actually did throw up!!! 

I had plans of taking pics of the wheels when I got home, but she wasn't feeling after that workout and had to lay down. I tried taking some, but with the flash off they were too dark and with the flash on it looked like a bright white light because of the mirror reflection of the flash. So no pics today...Maybe next tuesday.

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## --->>405<<---

^^ im enjoying my "deload"  :Smilie:  had carbs in meals 1-5 today!! Yes!! 3 cups oats and 12oz sweet pot total.. Gonna be nice to do this thru monday.. Then tuesday it begins ... 

Dont know bout ur HIT question slf.. Sarge seems like the guy for that one  :Smilie:

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## --->>405<<---

If u have an iphone get iSpyBot .. Its a buck and how i take all my pics..

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## slfmade

> ^^ im enjoying my "deload"  had carbs in meals 1-5 today!! Yes!! 3 cups oats and 12oz sweet pot total.. Gonna be nice to do this thru monday.. Then tuesday it begins ... 
> 
> Dont know bout ur HIT question slf.. Sarge seems like the guy for that one


Yeah...Sgt and Base seem to know the most about HIT. But they're slacking!!! Where the fvck are you guys at??? LOL

As for your carbs...Do you seem to look bigger after your high carb days? I'm pretty new to the science of all this so I don't know how it works, but I've noticed that while my stomach is flatter and more defined after a series of no/low carb days; my muscles actually look way bigger and more defined after a series of high/mod carb days. Why the hell can't I have both at the same time??? Or is there a way.......??????

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## slfmade

I don't have an Iphone...I have the biggest POS cheapest phone available. Which is a step up for me because until recently I didn't even have a cell phone. I used to be a regional manager for the wireless company inside all the costco's (I was actually one of the original project managers that started the whole thing up.) For about 2 1/2 years I was using well over 12,000 minutes a month. I know is sounds stupid, but that's what happens when you work 10-12 hour days and most of it is on conference/sales calls. I used have all the latest and greatest phones, and when I quit that job, I wanted to get as far away from cell phones as possible! When I was away from work I didn't want people to call me.... Recently I've been spending more time away from work so I had to get one, but I didn't really care about bells and whistles and back in the day, it seemed the more advanced the phone was...the more problems it had. So I just got a bottom of the barrel cheapy. How the Iphone, does it lock up, freeze up, suck ass? lol

So yeah, I came from a background of top of the line, to now....living in a cave in the technology world. I've thought about getting one though. I guess we'll see when it's time for an upgrade.

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## --->>405<<---

iPhone = hands down the best phone ive ever had! By a longshot! Awesome phone  :Smilie:  i watch hbo and cinemax movies, series.. Etc.. on it.. 

Playchess live against people.. Get on here.. Watch u tube vids.. Do all my calculating.. Monitor bank acct and make transfers and stuff.. 

Take pics and live video which can be uploaded  :Wink:  id get 1 if i wer u...

Not sure bout carbs and bigger .. Id say yeh more filled out.. One cool thing now is when the day is over and my belly is full from eating i dont have to suck in my gut LOL.. I can feel my abs underneath when i put tanning lotion on.. Lol.. This lean thing is awesome dude!!!

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## slfmade

Hey SGT or Base.....bump for post 441

Just finished Back tonight and I'm really seeing progress. I can now do 5 Pull ups in a row. I know it sounds stupid but it's a big improvement for me considering just 3 weeks ago I couldn't even do 1. I pushed really hard on all my lifts tonight and went up in everything except for rows. I think I was just so damn tired by the time I got to rows (I do these last) that I just didn't have much left in me. Other than that...good workout.

Oh and did 20min HIIT this morning for cardio!

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## Sgt. Hartman

> Well today is my 3rd Leg day since I started HIT. Normally I wear my sweats, but today I'm gonna throw on some shorts. I might try to take some pics and post them up so you guys can critique.
> 
> I ask this question earlier, but nobody ever answered....What is the max time frame I can do HIT without running a risk of injury? I'm on week 3 right now, and my cut will be over is 6.5 weeks. If I ran HIT all the way through that would make 10 weeks doing HIT. IF I can't do this...what type a program would the best to follow a HIT program?


Too many variables to set a time limit or an exact time frame where injury would occur IMO. 

I think a good gauge would be your CNS. If you're enjoying your workouts now but 6 weeks from now you start dreading them and not wanting to go to the gym then it's time to lower intensity. I just finished 8 weeks of an HIT program and while I wasn't dreading going to the gym, I was looking forward to being done with it. Toward the end I felt it was a strain to keep up with the same intensity, which to me, means it's time to take a break or lower intensity. If I remember right, you're mixing in some straight sets and not doing much forced/negative reps? If that's the case then you should be fine for 10 weeks but just listen to your body. 

I think keeping very strict form and really concentrating on the movement goes a long way in preventing injury, even though you have to use less weight. Don't let your ego get the better of you, I've learned that lesson......

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## slfmade

> Too many variables to set a time limit or an exact time frame where injury would occur IMO. 
> 
> I think a good gauge would be your CNS. If you're enjoying your workouts now but 6 weeks from now you start dreading them and not wanting to go to the gym then it's time to lower intensity. I just finished 8 weeks of an HIT program and while I wasn't dreading going to the gym, I was looking forward to being done with it. Toward the end I felt it was a strain to keep up with the same intensity, which to me, means it's time to take a break or lower intensity. *If I remember right, you're mixing in some straight sets and not doing much forced/negative reps?* If that's the case then you should be fine for 10 weeks but just listen to your body. 
> 
> I think keeping very strict form and really concentrating on the movement goes a long way in preventing injury, even though you have to use less weight. Don't let your ego get the better of you, I've learned that lesson......


Yep, pretty much. I do one dropset w rest pause for each muscle group followed my supersetting 3-4 other movements with 4x10's. Sometimes if I have any energy left over I'll go back and do some negatives or an exercise to target my weak spots. I like to leave feeling scared that I might now be able to drive home. LOL

One thing I have noticed lifting heavier weight is my right rotator cuff. It doesn't matter what I do with my form...it still kinda hurts. It's nothing debilitating so I just power through it cause I really don't wanta give up. I'm hoping it'll be fine.

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## RaginCajun

have you ever injured your rotator cuff? i have problems with both of mine, injured them last fall. maybe try doing some rotator cuff exercises to strengthen it up. could be a tendon issue (tendonitis).

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## slfmade

I messed it up back when I played football in HS, but I've had no problems since then except when lifting heavy.

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## RaginCajun

> I messed it up back when I played football in HS, but I've had no problems since then except when lifting heavy.


totally understand. that is why my left one is jacked up as well and in powerlifted in college and re-tweaked it. you have made some solid progress in a short amount of time. how are you liking the clen ? i am prob getting some to help out with my asthma

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## slfmade

> totally understand. that is why my left one is jacked up as well and in powerlifted in college and re-tweaked it. you have made some solid progress in a short amount of time. how are you liking the clen? i am prob getting some to help out with my asthma


I like the clen , but the keto isn't really do as good of a job as I hoped on upregulating my B2R's. Right now I'm at 160mcgs after 3 weeks and I'm not feeling it as much as I would like to. So...I'm gonna take probably a week or two off, still take the keto, and start over again.

Have you looked into ECA? That's something you could look into as well as it's really good as a bronchodilator. Not saying clen isn't, but it's another option.

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## baseline_9

> I like the clen , but the keto isn't really do as good of a job as I hoped on upregulating my B2R's. Right now I'm at 160mcgs after 3 weeks and I'm not feeling it as much as I would like to. So...I'm gonna take probably a week or two off, still take the keto, and start over again.
> 
> Have you looked into ECA? That's something you could look into as well as it's really good as a bronchodilator. Not saying clen isn't, but it's another option.


i find that 10 days on 5 days off works well if u want to 'feel' the clen

increase the dose EOD....

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## RaginCajun

> I like the clen , but the keto isn't really do as good of a job as I hoped on upregulating my B2R's. Right now I'm at 160mcgs after 3 weeks and I'm not feeling it as much as I would like to. So...I'm gonna take probably a week or two off, still take the keto, and start over again.
> 
> Have you looked into ECA? That's something you could look into as well as it's really good as a bronchodilator. Not saying clen isn't, but it's another option.



yes but it Asprin is not advised for people who have asthma. epinephrine works on vasodilating blood vessels so i could see how it would help out some with brocho. i may have to look into a EC stack if the clen doesn't help out with the asthma.

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## slfmade

> yes but it Asprin is not advised for people who have asthma. epinephrine works on vasodilating blood vessels so i could see how it would help out some with brocho. i may have to look into a EC stack if the clen doesn't help out with the asthma.


Sounds like a plan!

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## slfmade

Did 50min Fasted LIC cardio this morning. It's getting very old...very fast. I wish I could do HIIT, but I'm afraid it would be a bad idea due to running this carb cycle in an IF approach and being fasted in the morning. What do you guys think about doing HIIT 3 times a week after workout. At least this way I would have two meals under my belt at the time and a PWO Meal afterwards.

The only thing that worries me is, because I only eat 3 meals a day, that the HIIT wouldn't really work because there's a lot of carbs it has to go through first before I hit the fat. Maybe? I don't really know how HIIT works other than the whole EPOC thing.

What would be your guys opinions. Change to HIIT or stick with what's working and just be bored 5 days a week?

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## --->>405<<---

If its working keep going dude.. U could prob get away with adding 1HIIT PER week in to break it up if u wanted.. If u do it in the middle of the day ur gonna still get fatburn if for no other reason exactly wat u said.. EPOC.. which will put u in more of a deficit.. Just my opinion  :Smilie:  

Also i referred a guy to u named paliplaya (or someth like that) who posted a thread above on "if" cuz ur running one and i never have.. If u dont mind chek out his thread  :Smilie:

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## bikeral

I try to stick to what works and make changes when I hit a wall. Recently started listening to audio books during cardio so I can study and do cardio at same time. But main thing is to keep at it. If getting board will make you slack then perhaps you need a change.

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## --->>405<<---

slf i tried to copy and paste but it wont let me so check the 2nd and 3rd paragraph from the bottom of page 71 on stubborn fat solution as it applies to stims and cardio/heartrate

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## slfmade

> slf i tried to copy and paste but it wont let me so check the 2nd and 3rd paragraph from the bottom of page 71 on stubborn fat solution as it applies to stims and cardio/heartrate


Will do!

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## slfmade

To change things up this morning on cardio I did:

5min warm up
15min Hit - 30sec on 30sec off
10min Moderate
5 min cool down.

It turned my 50min LIC into 35min. I drank a shit load of BCAA to be on the safe side.

I've got shoulders, arms, and abs tonight. Today will be my last day on clen for a week or so. I think my B2R's are shot, so it's time for a short break from the clen.

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## slfmade

So I just finished my 3rd week. I jumped on the scales this morning and I've lost another 3lbs in the last week! Now I'm down to 173lbs. So it's went like this

Start = 190lbs
Week 1 = 178lbs (lost 12lbs, most of it I'm sure was water)
Week 2 = 176lbs (lost 2lbs)
Week 3 = 173lbs (lost 3lbs)

So this is an 17lb loss in 3 weeks. Take a way the initial week with the 12lb loss, and I'm losing 2.5lbs a week.

As I've mentioned before...I've never been this dedicated to a cut before so I'm not sure what the numbers should look like, but I'm concerned that I'm dropping too much, too fast.

As I stated in the last post. I've dropped the clen for at least the next week. I'm gonna see what my weigh-in looks like next week without the clen. If it's another 3lb loss I'm gonna look into bumping up my calories. What do you guys think???

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## Back In Black

Are you having your bf checked weekly too? If not, get some calipers and get it done. It's the only way of really knowing but anything over 2lb a week at your stage could be a worry. Though, of course, the clen could mean it is all fat.

Calipers and scales together my friend!

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## slfmade

I have some calipers, but when I started I was only measuring 1 site. Unfortunately the calipers haven't moved because the site that I measured (love handle area) is gonna be the last spot to come off...so it's hard to measure as I'm sure I'm dropping bodyfat everywhere but there. LOL 

I've been primarily using pics to guage my progress so far. Maybe tonight I'll have browngirl try to do multiple sites, or maybe I'll just go spend 30k on my own personal bod-pod. LOL

Have any of you looked into the bodymetrix ultra sound bodyfat analyzer? It's supposed to be the 2nd most accurate way of measuring bodyfat next to the bodpod. It's fairly inexpensive too at 495.00 if you buy the personal one. I mean...it's not 20.00 calipers, but also nowhere near close to 30k either.

http://www.intelametrix.com/update/

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## slfmade

Well today starts week 4 - New Pics coming this Sunday!!!

Did cardio this morning. It was much more difficult without the clen to keep my heartrate up, but it made it less boring.

I've got chest in 30min!!! I'm always excited about chest day.

Last friday I drank some redline extreme...and I really liked it. I'm curious to know if anything in it works on the beta 2 receptors. Reason I wanta know is I'm taking some time off clen to upregulate my B2R's and I don't want anythng else effecting that break. Anybody know?

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## JohnnnyBlazzze

Sick log. Curious as to what dosages you are running your clen and whats been the most effective so far?

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## slfmade

> Sick log. Curious as to what dosages you are running your clen and whats been the most effective so far?


I start at 40mcg and ramp up to 160mcg. I'm running my diet in kind of an experiemental way, so I really have no idea how much then clen is helping right now. I should know better this Sunday because I'm off clen for this week. Check Back then. In the meantime there's a million threads on this forum to research clen.

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## slfmade

Update: Did Chest on Monday, and an exhausting leg workout last night. The leg workouts are becoming almost unbearable, but I keep pushing each week to either increase weight or reps.

I think I may have figured out why my weight is dropping so fast. I mean, I know my diet and the clen are helping, but I still feel it's kinda fast. 

Last night I made it a point to follow my heartrate throughout my workout. During and immediately following my lifts my heartrate was around 165-170 and during my 1 min breaks they would fall to about 135-140 and back and forth. This is a similiar heartrate pattern to what I accomplish doing HIIT for cardio. So I'm thinking all the fasted cardio 5 days a week plus epoc inducing High Intensity Training in the afternoon is just burning a stupid amount of calories. What do you guys think?

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## Back In Black

You wear a heart rate monitor?

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## slfmade

> You wear a heart rate monitor?


Nope...I go old school and time it!

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## Back In Black

I have a Polar heart rate monitor. I rarely use it but sometimes I will wear it during my waking hours. Gives a rough idea of how many cals you actually burn throughout the day.

Not saying you should fork out but maybe if you could borrow one?

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## RaginCajun

i have an older polar one and have another watch one. i must say that they both are pretty accurate. i think you can push harder and get to 185+. i know that after a long sprint, my HR is right at the 190bpm level and that is pretty close to my max HR (which is just a number, not actual max, one would be dead if they reached it). i drink caffeine in morning and do not take any stims at the moment. i just push myself until the point where your body says STOP! once you get your HR in that top range (95% of max HR), try to keep it up that high for as long as you can stand it. when i was triathlon training, i used HR training to try to push thru plateaus. there are a lot of training programs out there that incorporate heart rates into the training.

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## Sgt. Hartman

> Update: Did Chest on Monday, and an exhausting leg workout last night. The leg workouts are becoming almost unbearable, but I keep pushing each week to either increase weight or reps.
> 
> I think I may have figured out why my weight is dropping so fast. I mean, I know my diet and the clen are helping, but I still feel it's kinda fast. 
> 
> Last night I made it a point to follow my heartrate throughout my workout. During and immediately following my lifts my heartrate was around 165-170 and during my 1 min breaks they would fall to about 135-140 and back and forth. This is a similiar heartrate pattern to what I accomplish doing HIIT for cardio. So I'm thinking all the fasted cardio 5 days a week plus epoc inducing High Intensity Training in the afternoon is just burning a stupid amount of calories. What do you guys think?


Try taking longer rest periods in between set if your HR is really getting that high during WO. It's not doing you any favors.

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## --->>405<<---

Slf u didnt read in stubborn fat solution wat i told u to read did u? Stim induced higher heartrate is a false representation.. I suggest u read it..

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## --->>405<<---

^^ i think its the bottom of page 71 if memory serves  :Smilie:

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## slfmade

> Slf u didnt read in stubborn fat solution wat i told u to read did u? Stim induced higher heartrate is a false representation.. I suggest u read it..


Apparently you didn't read my thread well enough did you??? LOL I didn't read the book yet. I've been really busy which is why I haven't been posting hardly at all the last several days. But I did remember what you said, however, it doesn't make a difference because, as of last Friday, I'm taking a break from clen for a bit. The keto hasn't upregulated my B2R's as well as I had hoped. So I'm taking a break until next Monday. This will also give me the opportunity to see how much of my weight loss is diet and cardio as opposed to diet, cardio, and clen.

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## slfmade

> Try taking longer rest periods in between set if your HR is really getting that high during WO. It's not doing you any favors.


This was my plan. It only happens on leg day. I don't know if it's because the intensity is just so high, or because my breathing isn't very good with legs. Either way I'm gonna take longer rest's from now on.

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## --->>405<<---

Dang! Busted! LOL.. I actually remember reading u were going off the clen but i read it earlier and didnt put it togethr when i posted that last post.. But the knowledge i was trying to pass would be applicable in the future as well!  :Wink:

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## --->>405<<---

My HR goes way high during legs too.. I think its the intensity.. Its legs man!  :Smilie:

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## slfmade

> Dang! Busted! LOL.. I actually remember reading u were going off the clen but i read it earlier and didnt put it togethr when i posted that last post.. But the knowledge i was trying to pass would be applicable in the future as well!


You never pay any attention to me. WE'RE OVER!!!!! LMAO!!!

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## slfmade

> My HR goes way high during legs too.. I think its the intensity.. Its legs man!


Yeah...I'm getting to the point that I HATE leg days. I'm actually dreading next Tuesday already!!! lol I know some guys say they love doing legs, but I've never been able to understand why. I find it miserable!!!!

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## --->>405<<---

Legs suck.. Btw u sOunded like my wife for a sec there LOL.. She says i never listen to her.. I said. HUH? Whatd u say? LOL..

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## Sgt. Hartman

> Yeah...I'm getting to the point that I HATE leg days. I'm actually dreading next Tuesday already!!! lol *I know some guys say they love doing legs*, but I've never been able to understand why. I find it miserable!!!!


They're lying.

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## RaginCajun

> Yeah...I'm getting to the point that I HATE leg days. I'm actually dreading next Tuesday already!!! lol I know some guys say they love doing legs, but I've never been able to understand why. I find it miserable!!!!





> They're lying.


^^^^^yup! love doing squats, hate doing legs!

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## slfmade

Hey Guys...it's been a couple of days since I posted. I think I'm getting "forum burn out" or something. I've had a lot going on, but I'm still hitting diet and training as hard as ever. For the next week or so I'll most likely only be updating my log and keep all other posting to a minimum. So, if I don't post on your logs...just know it's because I'm not gonna be on as much.

Update: Had a good back workout Wednesday. Today I did arms, shoulders, and abs. For the first time since I started this I didn't make any progress. I think I'm starting to hit my limit on what I can do while on a caloric deficit. I went in today with a lot of energy and felt good, but all my lifts were around what I hit last week.

I'll be posting pics and measurement updates on Sunday so stay tuned.

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## bikeral

Hopw your forum burnout does not last. You are one of the guys that really keeps me motivated here.
Looking forward to pics.

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## Sgt. Hartman

Bump for update/pics.

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## slfmade

> Hopw your forum burnout does not last. You are one of the guys that really keeps me motivated here.
> Looking forward to pics.





> Bump for update/pics.


Sorry Guys...No pics this week. I woke up Sunday and was running around like a chicken with its' head cut off trying to get all the shit done that needed to be done. I didn't even think about the pics until the day was half over. By then I was already half way through my high carb day which had me pretty bloated, so I guess we're just gonna have to wait until next week.

Just so you guys know...Just because I haven't been posting as much doesn't mean I'm slacking in the gym. Workout's, Cardio, and Diet are as good as they've ever been!!!

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## --->>405<<---

good to see u on here dude..

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## Sgt. Hartman

> Just because I haven't been posting as much doesn't mean I'm slacking in the gym. Workout's, Cardio, and Diet are as good as they've ever been!!!


Good to hear man, keep it up.

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## RaginCajun

just continue to hit it hard and you will wreak the benefits later!

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## bikeral

Hey dude hope all is well.

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## slfmade

Hey Guys...long time no see. Sorry I haven't been around for a while. My hands have been so full here lately trying to start a new business, get ready for a move, etc. I should be back up and going 100% in a few more weeks when things start calming down. 

In the meantime, I wanted to give you guys a quick picture update so you know I haven't been slacking. Diet and Training have all been 100%. I'm getting pretty small, but my bodyfat is getting low enough that when I start my new bulk in June I'll have a good base instead of starting at 15+%.

The first set of pics is my progression from beginning to 4 weeks ago. The 2nd set of pics is shows what I've been working on the last 4 weeks while away from the forum. I'm at 168.5 now which is the lightest I've been since highschool. The Cut ends May 12th so I've got about 4 weeks left.

Anyway....here we go!

Progression from beginning to 4 weeks ago!


1st Cut Progress Pics by slfmade, on Flickr

*And Now.....*


04-15-12 by slfmade, on Flickr

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## BrownGirl

Honey, you look AMAZING! Great job!  :Smilie:

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## RaginCajun

damn slfmade, excellent work my friend! definitely looking ripped

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## bikeral

Looking good bro. Glad you are on it.

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## slfmade

Thanks Guys...The plan is to continue this cut through mid may, take a 2 week break. Then start another Lean Bulk June 1st.

I have feeling that by the time I finish this cut I'm gonna be close to 160lbs, so I'll be in desperate need of a bulk!!!!

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## Sgt. Hartman

Abs are lookin good. How tall are you?

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## slfmade

> Abs are lookin good. How tall are you?


5'9......

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## Standby

damn bro super impressed great work man

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## slfmade

> damn bro super impressed great work man


Thanks Man. I'm really liking with my progress so far. In less than a year I've dropped 64.5 lbs from 233 to 168.5...and there was lean bulk in the middle that added 10lbs.

My goal is 180lbs at 8% by next March. This will include one natty bulk and cut, and my first aas cycle bulk then cut. Hopefully it'll all work out!

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## ghettoboyd

you look great bro nice work... :Afro:

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## --->>405<<---

> Thanks Man. I'm really liking with my progress so far. In less than a year I've dropped 64.5 lbs from 233 to 168.5...and there was lean bulk in the middle that added 10lbs.
> 
> My goal is 180lbs at 8% by next March. This will include one natty bulk and cut, and my first aas cycle bulk then cut. Hopefully it'll all work out!


should be interesting! i may be there doing the same as u  :Smilie:

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## Razor

> Thanks Man. I'm really liking with my progress so far. In less than a year I've dropped 64.5 lbs from 233 to 168.5...and there was lean bulk in the middle that added 10lbs.
> 
> My goal is 180lbs at 8% by next March. This will include one natty bulk and cut, and my first aas cycle bulk then cut. Hopefully it'll all work out!


your going to use? naw man you cant you got to keep it natural your the only one left
your progress is amazing though, keep it up
where is the b4 pics of you at 233?

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## slfmade

I used to never let anyone near me with a camera. Here's two of me with shirts on...I'm not real sure of my weight in these pics but I'm sure I was over 215lbs....


Fatpic1 by slfmade, on Flickr

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## akali

very inspiring i think i should make a journal, good luck to you my friend.

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## slfmade

> very inspiring *i think i should make a journal*, good luck to you my friend.


Thanks...that's kind of what this is :Hmmmm:

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## Standby

> Thanks...that's kind of what this is


he is saying him of his self like you are doing lol

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## slfmade

> he is saying him of his self like you are doing lol


Ah...I get it. I read that after my leg workout. I guess I wasn't thinking straight. My bad!

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## Back In Black

Mate, you have done awesome work so far. I'm looking forward to seeing big changes over the next 12 months too! Keep on it.

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## slfmade

So I know this won't be a big deal to you guys but I accomplished a personal best today. Lats have always been a weak area for me and I've never been able to do pull ups. I've been having to do the assisted pull up machine my whole life.

Well, tonight I FINALLY was able to do 10 reps for 1 1/2 sets!!! Again, I know you guys probably knock out 40 sets of 200 of these, but I'm pretty excited about it!!!

Next week I'm gonna get 2 sets of 10 for sure!!! Then finally 3 sets.

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## Sgt. Hartman

That's great man, keep at it. You noticing any back width growth?

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## slfmade

> That's great man, keep at it. You noticing any back width growth?


Yes!!! Significantly!!! I owe it all to the HIT I think. After the full body supersets that I did during my bulk I was no closer to doing pull ups than prior, but just 5 weeks into HIT and I'm seeing increased mass and strength increase all while on a deficit! I'm sure being 20lbs lighter helps too!

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## Standby

being so fat my whole life. i know exactly how happy you are lol. i remember doing my first 1 rep pull up and being happy as fvck lmao. good work man

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## --->>405<<---

^^ i second that! I suckd at chins myself.. They seem to snowball for the better.. Once u get one set of 10.. 2 and 3 sets come pretty kwik.. Soon ull have to strap on a plate!

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## slfmade

> ^^ i second that! I suckd at chins myself.. They seem to snowball for the better.. Once u get one set of 10.. 2 and 3 sets come pretty kwik.. *Soon ull have to strap on a plate*!


I usually tend to steer clear from strap ons....Just sayin. LOL

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## slfmade

I need your guys help on some type of maintenance workout routine. Next week will be my last week of HIT and then I go to San Diego for a week. From May 7th through the end of the month I'll still be dieting, but I'm gonna need a maintenance workout routine for those 3 weeks.

I'm not expecting you guys to do the work for me, but steer me in the right direction. I'm assuming I should go with more a volume type of workout since I'm just about to finish a high intensity program?

If so what type of program would be best? How many different exercises per bodypart? How many sets and reps? Rest period in between sets? How many days per week? More compound or isolation movements? Failure on every set or just short of?

Sorry for the 20 questions, but I've never done a maintenance routine before.

Thanks

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## Back In Black

I've kept my workouts exactly the same as far as lifting goes. I have a 4 day split. 4-6 reps one week and 8-10 the next. Except legs 12-15 reps or 15-20.

All I did was drop one of my cardio sessions and drop a bit of time from the other 2 cardio sessions.

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## slfmade

Okay...How many exercises to you do per bodypart usually? When I first started lifting again, I was doing full body workouts 3 days per week, then I switched to HIT. Now that I'm doing with those two, I really don't know what to do from here.

Thanks for the input so far. Once I have an idea on how many exerices to do for each bodypart I can put together a routine and have you guys critique it.

Oh and.....where you at SGT?????

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## Back In Black

4 exercises for back including deads. I only do 2 exercises each for quads and hams and 1for calves. Chest gets 2 on my heavy week and 3 on my light week. Delts get 3 exercises and bi's and tri's 2 each.

3-5 sets per exercise normally. 12-15 sets per workout.

That's not alot of exercises but I'm spent at the end of every workout.

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## BigBadWolf

Bump. Where's slfmade ?

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## RaginCajun

> Bump. Where's slfmade ?


i think he and his misses are on their farm in arkansas, oh pig soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeee

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## GirlyGymRat

yeh, been missing BG too!!

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