# MEMBERS EXPERIENCES > MEMBER'S CYCLE RESULTS >  Tren E/Test E Log

## RangerDanger830

Well here I am, I just started this cycle yesterday (14 March 2014). I have never taken Tren E before but have one cycle of experience with a low dose of Tren A where I got no sides at all. I also have experience with many other cycles of Test and Test/Deca . I am excited to be using a slightly higher dose of Tren as last time it cut me up well and contributed a good amount of muscle and strength at such a low dose. 
Stats:

Age: 26

Height: 6'2''

Weight On day one: 214lbs

BF%: I would honestly put myself around 15% but I am not sure. Was at 12% last I checked but I always check it 3x each time I visit the machine and one of the times it said 42% and the other it said 3% so needless to say the man told me he would have the machine looked at since they had a flooding issue there recently. In the mean time I have just moved to a new area in BFE and am looking for a place to scan my BF within an hour drive. I am making some calls this Monday once everyone opens up. I will give you an updated BF% no later than two weeks in and then once more after the cycle. I will try to post more depending on how accessible a bod pod or whathaveyou is. At the very least the pics will give you some guide, I will even resort to pinching skin if I have to, it might not be accurate but done the same way should give me an idea on change. 

Cycle Exp: 7 cycles to include test, test/deca , and tren a/test and have recently started playing with clen and seeing good results but will no longer use Clen for fear of the heart strain. 

PCT Knowledge: You tell me after reading my intended cycle, on test cycles its been Arimidex for AI on cycle and Nolva/Clo for PCT. I have my body figured out very well and I know what I need to keep my blood levels in check. 

Training Exp: 10 years lifting/7 years Army, NASM Certs, Bio UG/Grad 

Diet: Been eating at TDEE up until the start of the cycle but I have up'd my cals now. Depending on my weight and BF% at the time it varies. I do not want to go in depth with my diet like some guys because I do not want to spend the extra time typing on here honestly, the time I spend counting calories is bad enough (HATE it). 

Training: I never have been a big fan of the one muscle group a day. I tried it for awhile and just feel like I wasn't getting anywhere compared to lifting this current way. 

Day 1: Chest/Triceps/Cardio
Day 2:Biceps/Shoulders/Abs
Day 3:Back/Legs/Cardio
Day 4:Rest 

Cycle:

Weeks 1-8 200mg Tren E/2x Week
Weeks 1-10 125mg Test E/2x Week
Weeks 1-10 .5mg Arimidex/EOD
Weeks 1-10 250iu HCG /2x Week
Weeks 1-8 .5mg Cabergoline/2x Week
Weeks 12-15 (PCT) Clom at 75/50/50/50 and Nolva at 40/20/20/20

Bloodwork: Was normal as of two weeks ago and I will get it done a few weeks after to make sure I am back to normal levels. Might get it done again mid cycle just to see how it is going but I have been known to not do it, just being honest there. 

The Adex dose is a little higher because I find I do not see any effects from taking it at .25. I am taking pictures, I have already taken my before pictures and will take after pictures but probably none in between so I see a greater difference. 

I would like to add that I went up to a 25g needle for the first injection and I did frontload both test and tren at 400mg Tren and 250mg Test in the first injection. As far as the 25g goes, I gave up while drawing and drew with a 20g and inject with the 25g. That seems to just be easier. However, using oil based products with a 25g is a love/hate for me. With a 20g I stick it in, a little painful but nothing bad, and it goes in fast. Not much bruising afterwards. With scar tissue becoming something I need to pay attention to with as many cycles as I have done so I went up to the 25g. Well, here's the catch, it felt great going in, barely felt anything, but boy did it take long to inject in the muscle. At first I thought that wasn't a bad thing, injecting slower is better anyway for a few reasons. But my problem is I have yet to perfect a good way to hold it while sticking it in my glutes. I really did move too much. If I can figure out what way suits me best for holding it while injecting I will be good to go, trial and error. But as for the first shot, it is really sore because of how much I moved and in the process I probably made more scar tissue than with a 20g or 23g. 

I know it is my first shot, no cough or any BP changes. HR was elevated slightly but mostly because I knew I was doing a shitty job at keeping the needle still. I have done my fair share of cycles so I am not expecting to notice anything for awhile, just making sure I annotate that anyway. 

I have done Clen recently also, did two weeks on and yesterday was the last day of my two weeks off. I say good results and love it. I do worry about the heart issues though so I am torn between using it further. However, I feel like I don't need to on Tren anyway, but fat burning from Tren is good but Tren+Clen should be better so I am still unsure. Going to do more research. 

No changes in the gym yet, but none are expected yet anyway.

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## RangerDanger830

I did edit my cycle and basically shortened it. I didn't see much point in running test two weeks before Tren since they both have the same esther, they should kick it about the same time anyway. If not then the HcG surely will have by the time Tren is at max concentration in my body. Also, I never like running long cycles when I am trying a new compound. I am a play it safe kind of guy. The cycle now reflects what I am actually doing, I didn't proofread it well enough before I copied it onto the post.

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## ghettoboyd

why would you not run the tren 10-12 weeks?...you wont feel it for like 4-5 weeks so why end it 4 weeks later...I understand your being cautious but after you get going on it, if your feeling good your not going to want to end it early imho...just throwing that out there everything else looks g2g...good luck...

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## RangerDanger830

My gym partner and more importantly, local chemistry professor, told me the exact same thing. I am open minded to extending the cycle as long as I get no sides from the enanthate , which I doubt I will. I have already ordered some extra and it will be here in a few weeks, well before the cycle nears its end. Thanks for the advice and I agree completely

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## ghettoboyd

> My gym partner and more importantly, local chemistry professor, told me the exact same thing. I am open minded to extending the cycle as long as I get no sides from the enanthate, which I doubt I will. I have already ordered some extra and it will be here in a few weeks, well before the cycle nears its end. Thanks for the advice and I agree completely


the side I hate the most with tren is I feel like im always out of breath and I do a lot of cardio lately so it can be brutal...my tren sweet spot is 400mg per week...if I go over that I feel like death warmed over...

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## RangerDanger830

I worried a little about sides because I was front loading a dose of tren I have never taken before but so far so good.

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## RangerDanger830

Just a few days in and I am more vascular, I hear that doesn't stick with tren but it makes me feel good for now  :Smilie:  I did one super set in the gym today just to finish my chest off and it got my heart up as expected but I did start coughing quite a bit, tried to do cardio but it really was starting to wear on me.

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## < <Samson> >

Tren E seems to be okay so far for me. This is my 2nd back to back run of tren e. 

First time I ran 600-700mg per week. Only sides were super heavy sweating & dark urine even while drinking one gallon of water per day. 

I put on about 4-5 pounds of LBM in about 2 months. I was gonna run the tren longer but the sides were too much. 

I came off the tren for a month & jumped back on at only 300mg per week. The positives are very close to the same without any sides. 

I been doing the 300mg for 8 weeks so far.

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## RangerDanger830

That sounds consistent with what the other experienced Tren users say about doses. I am going to attempt cardio again today so we will see how that goes

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## RangerDanger830

Let's see here, it is uh, day 5 of the cycle and so far I have done the frontload and then one normal dose. Yesterday was the first day where I felt a difference in myself. It was nothing I haven't felt before on previous cycles, you know, that I can do this all day long feeling. I love it though. 

I used to think PIP was mostly a myth, by that I mean if someone was complaining about it then they probably just did a terrible job injecting like I did on my first. After doing my second pin correctly I was beginning to think that maybe Tren is just one of those compound that makes you sore. I thought back to the military and some of the vaccinations we were given with 30g 1/2in needles yet hurt for quite a few days. Maybe Tren is one of those? It doesn't matter too much, the pain is not bad, just there. And I can still work out with it no problem. Just thought I would annotate it in case anyone has similar experiences. 

I did move up on my curls and a few other exercises. I will give you a little history of myself. I was the dumbass at 19 years old who did an incomplete, sloppy cycle. I was in Afghanistan and wanted to come home and get ladies. I was a skinny little ****er so lady killing was not my thing too much. Well we had no internet or electricity so I trusted my good buddy and our platoon medic. He steered me completely wrong but at the end of the day I got lucky and gained a ton of muscle and didn't mess my hormone levels up thank goodness. 

Well the moral of the story is that when I gained a **** ton of muscle, like 30lbs, in just a few short months, I wasn't gaining strength in my ligaments and tendons as fast. This resulted in back, shoulder, and even a wrist injury. So while my hormones may have been spared, my joints were not. From then on out I made it my personal mission to do things right after that and learn on my own and from there on out I have done well. It was a long, slow, and difficult road catching my joints up to my muscles but I finally did it. But it is for this reason that when I am cycling I do not go extremely heavy on any weight, nor do I jump weight fast even if I think I can do it. I will never again be one of those guys who stops their cycle midway because of an injury. 

Having said that I did bump bicep curls up 5lbs, up'd my chin ups, shoulder press, and my straight arm forward lateral raise? The one where you raise the dumbells straight in front of you to work the front of your delts. So I am moving up but that is mostly due to my work out schedule and diet, I think it might be too early to say it was the tren. I am sure it helped though. 

Funny side note, talked to a nutritionist yesterday. I figured she'd know right where to send me for BF% calculation. Well this lady only uses calipers and said I don't need to know an exact body fat % to get an accurate TDEE. She didn't know what TDEE was either. We got into a small "debate" on why I needed exact BF because I didn't want to half ass my diet as my BF changes and she said I was doing too much work.

I did however get my BF% tested at a local pediatric clinic of all places, unfortunately I am nowhere near a 12% anymore, which part of me kind of knew. I am at 15.33%. I didn't think I was that high either though. I kind of felt like crap all day yesterday because of that. I am really torn about how many calories over my TDEE I will go over at this point. I feel like sometimes I could easily be anorexic if I had just a little less common sense.

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## legitsrs

> Tren E seems to be okay so far for me. This is my 2nd back to back run of tren e. 
> 
> First time I ran 600-700mg per week. Only sides were super heavy sweating & dark urine even while drinking one gallon of water per day. 
> 
> I put on about 4-5 pounds of LBM in about 2 months. I was gonna run the tren longer but the sides were too much. 
> 
> I came off the tren for a month & jumped back on at only 300mg per week. The positives are very close to the same without any sides. 
> 
> I been doing the 300mg for 8 weeks so far.


When do you all notice tren-e sides coming in? When do you notice actual results as well?

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## RangerDanger830

> When do you all notice tren-e sides coming in? When do you notice actual results as well?


Well while I do not have any experience with Tren E I do have experience with other enanthates. I was going to post this as an update today anyway. Normally it takes about two weeks before I start really feeling more endurance in the gym. It takes a few more weeks, maybe four, before I start noticing gains on my body. But I am a week into this Tren cycle almost and I already feeling strength and endurance gains. I have gone up a few pounds in literally every single exercise I do. Maybe it is the Tren/Test/HcG combo or maybe I have just been half assing at the weight I have been at for awhile and just had the confidence to move up. Just don't expect to pin one morning and work out later that day feeling like the hulk ya know?

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## RangerDanger830

On a side note, I have a question I would like to ask of people who have a bit more experience with gyno. My nipples were starting to get a little puffy. Not enough to even notice if I was out swimming in public or whatever, but it is enough for me to realize it and that's the first step to gyno. 

Well I usually get puffy nipples from Test but once I up'd my dose of Arimidex from .25mg to .5mg every other day that pretty much takes care of it. Although I do think Adex is pretty weak sometimes, or my supplier under doses one. But this early into the cycle I am already seeing puffy nipples, this is something I do not see unless I am at the second half of a heavy test cycle and the Adex knocks it out no problem. 

I am worried that it is starting so early but I know it is mostly do to the Tren . I did a little experiment and instead of Adex every other day at .5mg I took .5mg for three days in a row. They aren't gone completely yet but they are getting there and in a day or two of doing that every day they will be back to normal. 

So my question is this, what should I do? Stay on track? Adjust the Caber? Lower the dose of something? I understand a little about gyno from what I have read. Most people say Letro is best bet but I have no experience with it, I just know it is horse strong. I know uping my dose or Adex will suppress my estrogen although since it isn't as strong as Letro I am not sure how much estrogen it will suppress at .5mg every day. I know that will compromise gains also. 

Preventing gyno obviously takes priority over all else and gains are nothing in comparison to having ugly pecs. The below pasted article:

http://forums.steroid.com/educationa...bout-gyno.html

Tells me in order to reverse gyno I should basically do letro on cycle. Unless someone says otherwise I have no issue buying some letro and running it on cycle in the stead of my Adex. Any advice my friends?

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## RangerDanger830

Forgive my grammar in these posts, I just proofread one and realized I suck.

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## RangerDanger830

> Well while I do not have any experience with Tren E I do have experience with other enanthates. I was going to post this as an update today anyway. Normally it takes about two weeks before I start really feeling more endurance in the gym. It takes a few more weeks, maybe four, before I start noticing gains on my body. But I am a week into this Tren cycle almost and I already feeling strength and endurance gains. I have gone up a few pounds in literally every single exercise I do. Maybe it is the Tren/Test/HcG combo or maybe I have just been half assing at the weight I have been at for awhile and just had the confidence to move up. Just don't expect to pin one morning and work out later that day feeling like the hulk ya know?


To better answer your question I have just done my third injection, it is the first time I have gotten the cough while injecting, but the cough was really nothing to note. It lasted for just a few seconds and I was good. 

Last night however I sweat all night. I woke up to a soaked pillow, luckily I have four on my bed. I had my ac cranking all night and my room was ice cold so I know it was definitely the Tren . Still, not a major side effect if you ask me. 

With swimming season coming up I want to be more lean, especially since I didn't like what I saw when I got my BF% read. So I lowered my calories to about +300 over TDEE. I will just see how that does for me in a few weeks and adjust in the middle of the cycle accordingly if I am not satisfied. 

The Adex every day is helping the puffiness go away so until it is gone I am going to keep it at ED then a week after it is gone I will back off to every two out of three days and see where that gets me.

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## RangerDanger830

Was laying in bed watching a movie with the AC cranking and was sweating a little. Took my temp and it was 100.5. Going to record my temp often on the Tren just for curiosity's sake. I suppose it is a sign my metabolism is increased and my mitochondria are working double time.

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## RangerDanger830

Adex is working to prevent gyno, bw will tell in April. All of my exercises are going up. DB curls went up to 70s, feel like I could do 75 but if I push my curls too far I get elbow pain. Pull ups are weighted, haven't done weighted pull-ups in awhile because I do abs on my bicep day and I like to incorporate abs by using my legs in my pull-ups. Sorry chin ups, palms inward is what I mean. I used 75lbs for weight pull-ups and did 4 sets of ten no problem so I may continue to do that. Weighted dips have gone up to 115lbs added and those are perfect for my weight. DB Press, flat, has gone up to 135lb DB where as before I was using 125s when I started. 

A couple other exercises have gone up too but I can't remember off hand without looking it up on my pad in my car. Some of the improvement was me holding back some before the cycle, but some of it is due to the Tren . I am already seeing vascularity and fat loss just ten days in, pretty early for most cycles I run despite it having a long esther. 

BP is elevated slightly during certain parts of the day, nothing major. Core temp has gone down but stays in the 99 degree F range. Keeping calories just above TDEE, the purpose of this cycle is not bulking, just cutting fat and building a little bit of muscle while doing so before swim season. Then bulking in the fall. 

I will update less often from here on out, only to post weight and any effects felt.

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## RangerDanger830

BP was elevated more than I care for, even got a headache from it at one point in the gym so I started a low dose of cialis. Cured it right up. Did some bloodwork, luckily the next town over, 10mins down the road, has the lab right next door to where you give blood so you get your results back in a day, convenient as hell. Everything was normal for what is expected on cycle but my estrogen was a little low so I lowered my AI dose back down a little. 

So far I have had a net change in weight of +1.6lbs in two weeks. This is very good so far since I know I have lost a little fat, enough to see just by looking in the mirror. I am excited to get an updated BF% in a few weeks. I have been eating at 300 over TDEE but am considering eating at TDEE which will vary each day depending on what workout I do. I am trying to weigh the pros and cons as far as sacrificing gains but at the same time cutting more fat. I do not want this to be an eat a ton of calories bulk because I want a decent BF% this summer. I may just try TDEE out for two or three weeks and see what happens and if not, change it back.

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## RangerDanger830

27 March 2014:

Looks like I ended up maybe 1000 calories under my TDEE today. Ate something bad, maybe I didn't boil my chicken long enough and ended up puking up two meals worth of food up. It was terrible. I do not think it had anything to do with compounds as the nausea went away as soon as I voided my stomach. Just thought I would throw that in there in case it happens again.

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## Docd187123

Good luck Ranger. I'm excited to follow you through the journey.

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## RangerDanger830

> Good luck Ranger. I'm excited to follow you through the journey.


Thanks, I am excited to be on Tren !

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## kelkel

Interesting log Ranger. Very detailed.
Remember, if the need arises you can run Ralox or Nolva on cycle to help with gyno issues, if in fact that's what it is and not just sensitivity while your body adapts to hormonal changes.

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## RangerDanger830

> Interesting log Ranger. Very detailed.
> Remember, if the need arises you can run Ralox or Nolva on cycle to help with gyno issues, if in fact that's what it is and not just sensitivity while your body adapts to hormonal changes.


I believe I am going to be senstive to gyno when running tren just from being sensitive to it on deca . I do have a ton of extra Nolva just in case and Ralox is in the mail. It may be the sensitivity as well, who knows. For now it is under control so I am just hoping for an uneventful cycle. 

I am a little worried about eating at TDEE on a cycle like this. You ever played around with your cycle like that?

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## RangerDanger830

I got a side today I absolutely hate, for the first time. ITCHING! I'm big enough now that I can't scratch places on my back so I end up looking like a crackhead in the gym scratching constantly. I should've figured this would happen since decay always does it to me.

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## RangerDanger830

Still itching, damn 19nors always do that when I get sweaty. At 217 for a net gain of 3lbs in 17 days. Doesn't sound like much but I have lost a little fat, not sure how much. Going to wait until I am closer to mid-cycle for updated BF%. Might not even do one til the end. I can see the fat loss visibly so there is no doubt my diet is at least fairly close to where it needs to be since I am still going up in weight and strength.

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## Schwarzenegger

i use 20mg nolva ED on every cycle to prevent gyno along with an AI

i usually do test/deca so i have the 19nors with nolva

Might wanna think about that if getting puffy nips already

And test e/tren e will probably be my next cycle so i got my eye on this log
keep goin hard

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## RangerDanger830

> i use 20mg nolva ED on every cycle to prevent gyno along with an AI
> 
> i usually do test/deca so i have the 19nors with nolva
> 
> Might wanna think about that if getting puffy nips already
> 
> And test e/tren e will probably be my next cycle so i got my eye on this log
> keep goin hard


Thanks for the input. I did get the puffy nipples to go away after about a week I think it was so if it comes back I have more Nolva than I know what to do with, probably near a year's worth. As of now I no longer have any indication of the early stages of gyno but I may start taking Nolva anyway pending my next bloodowrk results in a week or two. 

I am keeping my calories at TDEE and it seems to be doing good so far, just like I thought it would work out. I am cutting fat very slowly, but it is happening. I am also gaining muscle slowly but it is happening too. I believe I am going to keep it around TDEE for a few more weeks since I am liking what I am seeing. I now weigh 219.4lbs. This is a 5.4lb increase since the day I started. However, I am a detail oriented person so I must mention I am wearing a 2XL shirt when I weighed in as opposed to an XL, so I just round down to 5lbs. But considering I am cutting a little fat I am surprised at my net weight gain. 

The power of Tren is really starting to show itself as opposed to TestE/Deca. 5lbs in 2 1/2 weeks seems amazing with my caloric intake and fat loss. I think now that I have a fairly decent idea of how Tren affects me I can set a goal of gaining and maintaining 10lbs of LBM on this cycle. This would be no problem with a larger diet but I will try to do the minimum caloric intake to achieve this. 

Pee is starting to turn brown, mostly due to the last two days being hot as hell here and I haven't been hydrating as much as I should. Itching isn't terrible. Gyno is not an issue still. Ummm..gaining a boatload of strength but being careful not to push my joints too hard so I am not going 100%. 

The only new substances on this cycle I am taking that I have no experience with is the Tren and Caber. I am guessing the Caber is doing this, but in the afternoon/evening I have been getting acid reflux. It was the reason I vomited a few days ago I believe. I am going to buy some rolaids today to see if that helps. Caber has a side effect of upset stomach, but that is very vague and generalized. I have read Caber is fairly mild, maybe I am just unlucky. Anyway, nothing I can do about it except throw in some organic remedies or OTC meds. It isn't bad enough to risk the effects of not taking it on cycle so just throwing it out there for learning's sake. 

My fiancee seems to think that I shouldn't post before/after pics of myself on this website with no shirt on. Despite the largely male demographic on here. So I told her I wouldn't post pics and I am a man of my word. But since she doesn't get on here I will say that she never said anything about sending them privately. So towards the end if anyone is interested then I will gladly send em your way. I will ask if anyone wants them once I am on PCT, otherwise I will forget between now and then, TBI....

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## ghettoboyd

what??!...that's not you in your avy bro?...fuk...deceiving...lol

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## Docd187123

> what??!...that's not you in your avy bro?...fuk...deceiving...lol


Ghetto, it is him. He was selling tickets to the fun show in the off topic lounge lol. I think He got Austinite to bite and buy tickets for all of us

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## RangerDanger830

Alright alright, you guys got me. That was the after picture after my 4th cycle of fish oil and pediasure. But if you want an updated picture then here you go...



The other guy is Terry, I just call him daddy

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## qscgugcsq

You just made my evening after a bad day, very bad day.

XD

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## RangerDanger830

I try, when my day is bad I just tell myself, at least I still have my penis.

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## RangerDanger830

Didn't weigh in today, just forgot to. If I do not weigh as soon as I wake up I just don't bother for the rest of the day. Increasing calories to +300. That should make the cycle more of a recomp than a cut than it has been already around TDEE. I normally am not so indecisive on cycle and usually have all of this figured out but here lately with a pending back issue I am reevaluating my body and how big I want and need to be. 

Been taking tums sparingly, one a day at the oneset of acid reflux. Seems to do a good job making my tummy more basic. Haven't had a single cheat meal since the cycle started so I might plan one for tomorrow or this weekend. I have only did cardio 2x last week. Going to stop slacking and bring that up to around 4x at 45mins. I am still getting stronger. Can't think of much else, still got a crazy good recovery time.

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## kelkel

You can easily cut your caber back to .25 x 2 per week without issues. Save the rest for later....

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## RangerDanger830

> You can easily cut your caber back to .25 x 2 per week without issues. Save the rest for later....


I will try it and see how things go, appreciate the input.

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## wicked442

Are you getting any tren sides?

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## RangerDanger830

Well I have had dark urine maybe once or twice so that isn't bad. I stay pretty hydrated at all times anyway, just a habit. No acne or hair loss, BP was slightly high but it was nothing a low dose of cialis couldn't take care of. It was 130/85 which isn't too terrible. I probably could've gotten away with not taking the cialis but I wanted to play it safe. No Tren dick, I am hornier than what I am off cycle but not quite as normal as a test only cycle, I would say that is about right for my doses. Night sweats started but after cranking my AC it is barely noticeable even though I am the heavy sweater type. I have insomnia before the Tren and that is occurring, I had to increase my sleep med dose a little but if I didn't I would still be okay. No anxiety, no rage, I feel emotionally stable which is not surprising on cycle for me anyway. If I left any sides out I am guessing it is because I haven't had em. I had a gyno scare where my nipples got puffy but in a few days of increasing my AI they went away. If they come back I have a boatload of Nolva so I will probably just add that into the cycle. 

Now that I am three weeks into the cycle I am really starting to see more of the effects of tren, particularly strength increase. I killed shoulders in the gym today to the point of having to sit on the curb for 15mins before I could lift my arms up long enough to hold the steering wheel to drive home. Got home and decided to hang my punching bag back up since it hangs from a tree in the backyard and the weather is good now. I replaced my cardio today with that. My recovery time is through the roof. I didn't even need to take a rest day last rotation, maybe I just didn't work hard enough, but I am making sure that isn't the case this rotation. 

So far I am extremely happy with this cycle and it is only three weeks in. I can't imagine how happy I will be with myself in another month or two. Tren is my new favorite compound for sure. Nothing new to report other than that, I will probably weigh myself again in a few days and post again then.

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## ghettoboyd

hi bro im enjoying reading your log, very detailed...nice work so far and im glad your enjoying your cycle...

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## < <Samson> >

Hey bro, sorry for not checking in earlier


How is it? What dose are u at now? I seen the dark urine in the above post. I got the same thing, I was just taking too much.

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## RangerDanger830

Still at 400mg a week Sam, taking that til the end. It's going great, I got to the point to where test and deca were getting boring, for lack of a better word, and wanted to see what all the tren fuss was about. Well overall it's going amazing, a lot of people seem interested in the sides but they're very mild at this dose. Nothing compared to what I get from something like clen (I'm sensitive to it). Thanks for the shoutout ghetto, it's good to have support on here, motivates me.

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## < <Samson> >

Right on

Finding that tren sweet spot is very key. Too much can actually hinder shit. Like if you are not sleeping, your strength will suffer - tren or not


Also tren e seems a bit different than tren ace. I ran the tren ace into almost a gram a week. By 650mg or so, shit started getting weird. 

Now with tren e, I barely got to 550-600mg & I started pissing brown. On the ace I never seen dark urine - my main sides were sever insomnia, sex drive that nothing can explain & I swear my head just felt like it was cooking at times throughout the day. This was half way through week 7 on ace. I stopped the sauce immediately at that point. 


On the ace, the body composition changes were amazing. On the e, it seems way more gradual.

On the e, my urine was dark by week 5 and I had constant sweats. I took a month off, then got back on just 300mg per week. The 300mg gave the moist gains I have seen since my first cycle. I gained about 3-5 pounds of LBM in about 6 weeks. My strength also just jumped by a solid 10% or so.



Tren is strong stuff, it is not necessary at all to pump high doses unless you're a total monster. I think 400mg a week is pretty much my max also - the sides can creep up quick & with e they wont go away that quickly.

----------


## RangerDanger830

Well so far I have noticed I have lost a little on my waist and my lats are slightly bigger. Haven't really paid much attention elsewhere. I am pretty happy with the way I look now so this cycle is just the icing on the cake. I never wanted to cycle to compete or anything like that, I just wanted to look good on the beach and I think I have attained that. Especially where I live in redneckville, USA. All of those People of Wal-Mart pictures probably come from my county.

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## RangerDanger830

Got a couple new things to report so here we are. On the up side, I weighed in at 220.something or other, can't remember, I gained about a pound though so that is always nice. Also another positive I have previously mentioned is that I did rid myself of my puffy nipples recently and was pretty happy I was able to do so by just upping the AI. However, the nipples are puffy once again. 

I remember reading a post on here, or another forum I can't remember, talking about the pros and cons of frontloading doses with long esters. Well after reading that the guy did a decent job of breaking down the test levels in your body week by week when you took a certain dose with and without frontloading. Anyways, it got me sold on frontloading. Well at this point in my cycle I have most likely reached, or am close at least, to the maximum dose of tren and test that are going to be in my body while on a cycle of the doses I am on. I think as the compounds built up in my system the risk of gyno went up. Just a hypothesis there, I have no real idea. 

Anyway, I am going to start taking Nolva at 20mg ED until it goes away. Here lately I have been taking Adex at .5mg EOD. Not sure if I will raise that or not. I do not want to crush my estrogen, but I do not want to risk permanent gyno and I know these 19nors give me puffy nipples at the first sign. If Tren wasn't a 19nor but still worked as good I would be in heaven. I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little nervous about this gyno. I have never had them puff up this much overnight it seems. Maybe it took a day or two for me to notice, I haven't been mirin myself too much lately. I am kind of frustrated this is even happening in the first place with as much precaution as I tend to take but what can ya do. 

Other than that, go up a pound, gained some gyno...let's see...still getting stronger. The belt in the gym is kind of rinky dink so I might have to buy my own, I am getting to where I am not sure if it will hold up for much longer with as much weight as I am dipping. Oh yeah, let me tell you what, I forgot about this. So I wanted to keep my BF low, that was a goal of this cycle, I decided I would try two weeks of 5am fasted cardio and see how that went. See how it affected my gains and such. Well I woke my butt up at 5am, went outside, cold as hell and raining, but I started running anyway. I got to the end of my driveway and turned left. I went about 100m then I had to stop. I had muscle pumps in my calves and shins so bad it was killing me to walk. This is nothing new to me as Deca does this to me also, it was just something I had forgot about since I hadn't done Deca in awhile. Boy does it suck though, it is going to make cardio impossible. I am going to try the elliptical and see if that will be easier on me. As far as muscle pumps go, they were definitely up there in severity compared to Deca, the Tren strength really showed its ugly face this morning. I was so proud of myself for actually getting up that early without being forced by the Army. 

Got a few compliments in the gym today though so that is always nice. Wore a tank top for the first time in awhile so no one has really seen my body in a few months at the gym, got a lot of mirin going on, I love it. As far as all of the other sides or issues, I really do not have any others at the moment. Everything else is going good. I am going to wait til I am on the Tamox for a few days and get me some bloods done if the gyno doesn't resolve soon.

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## kelkel

Consider Andractim Gel if you can't get a handle on your gyno. It's a topical DHT that you apply several times a day to the affected area. A good one-two punch when combined with a Serm.

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## RangerDanger830

I have no knowledge when it comes to Andractim or anything of the like, but before I do some research I checked to see what my sources had available and none of them have this. There is Masteron , I know this is DHT derived, but that is about all I know about it. Even if it was a viable substitution for Andractim I wouldn't be able to have it here in a timely manner. My source is overseas in Europe and shipping is usually 3 weeks on average. That and they require a $200 minimum order which seems like a lot for some Mast and I wasn't planning on cycling any time soon.

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## RangerDanger830

Quick side note: Pumps in my lower legs were so bad that in a few minutes of running my calves are sore the same day. I don't have girl calves either, I work the hell outta them.

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## kelkel

It comes from Australia and gets pretty high marks from all I know who have needed and used it. Including an IFBB Pro acquaintance who I referred it to.
May be worth having on hand if prone..

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## RangerDanger830

> It comes from Australia and gets pretty high marks from all I know who have needed and used it. Including an IFBB Pro acquaintance who I referred it to.
> May be worth having on hand if prone..


I am having a hard time reading your posts with your huge ass leg intimidating me. What about Mast as a substitute?

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## kevy

great thread so far man. subbed

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## RangerDanger830

Weighed in again today at the end of week four and I am at 220. Roughly a six pound increase I think it was since I started. I do not remember, I worry about the mirror more than the scale anyway and the mirror is looking just fine. After having those bad muscle pumps in my shins and calves I decided to try doing cardio on the elliptical and that turned out great. Did 45mins on it with no problem so that will be my go to cardio til the tren clears my system I suppose.

I did take pictures three weeks in just to compare progress after three weeks. Nope I am not going to share them because I deleted them to avoid temptation. I would rather post before and afters so there is a more noticeable change. After only three weeks I wasn't expecting to see much except maybe a little fat loss and sure enough that is what I saw. I lost maybe an inch on the waist, I don't know, I haven't measured. My lats look bigger but I am not sure if that is because I lost a little bit of waist fat. I did get a compliment at the lab today about how I seem to have lost some fat which is good. I always wear a coat so no one really sees my body. They only see a neck and head so I am going to take that as a compliment. 

Nothing else to report, libido is fine as well as everything else. The gyno has not gone away yet but the little bit of sensitivity has gone away. The sensitivity seems to always go away first right before it starts going away so I have no reason to worry about the gyno just yet. I hate to say gyno since it isn't full on gyno yet but you get the idea.

For those of you who saw my thread in the injury section about my bad back, no the VA hasn't gotten me in yet. But my back pain has gone down quite a bit since I have altered my back routine. I feel a lot better now.

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## < <Samson> >

I don't remember seeing it anywhere in here, but are you or have you taken anything for the gyno symptoms you are having?

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## kelkel

> I am having a hard time reading your posts with your huge ass leg intimidating me. What about Mast as a substitute?


Not the same. The "topical" application on the problem area is what makes it more effective.
Is this leg shot more or less intimidating?



Just F'n with ya....

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## RangerDanger830

> I don't remember seeing it anywhere in here, but are you or have you taken anything for the gyno symptoms you are having?


At first I raised my AI dose a little and that worked temporarily. As I got a little farther into the cycle the pre-gyno symptoms poked their head out again so I added 20mg of Nolva ED into it and it seems to be helping. I am getting bloods done next week most likely so I can see if that will reveal the true culprit to the gyno issues. 




> Not the same. The "topical" application on the problem area is what makes it more effective.
> Is this leg shot more or less intimidating?
> 
> 
> 
> Just F'n with ya....


I think I can see the street that I live on over there on your quad..lol..

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## < <Samson> >

I am so gyno paranoid - after coming off my last tren e cycle I got a few minor gyno symptoms. I jumped on nolva the same day, then letro 2 days later. The letro made it all go away - just made me feel like shit.

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## RangerDanger830

> I am so gyno paranoid - after coming off my last tren e cycle I got a few minor gyno symptoms. I jumped on nolva the same day, then letro 2 days later. The letro made it all go away - just made me feel like shit.


I have used Letro before and it does work great. I have considered switching my AI to letro from the adex I am on now if my bloods show too much estrogen. I have a sneaking suspicion this is a progesterone issue.

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## < <Samson> >

Yeah, letro does work - but it sure left me feeling like crap

Just thought I'd ask

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## RangerDanger830

> Yeah, letro does work - but it sure left me feeling like crap
> 
> Just thought I'd ask


No problem, ask away. I never got bad sides, or any noticeable sides from letro or any AI. I am usually fairly conservative with my dose though. With the impending gyno I may be a little more aggressive this time around. I have never really shut down my estrogen to the point of having issues so I feel I have plenty of room to up my AI for now if need be pending bloods of course.

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## RangerDanger830

I am going to be honest with you gentleman. I have been craving pizza all day so I went back to the gym and did 45mins of cardio so I could afford to eat me two pieces of my brothers pizza he bought lol...

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## kelkel

> I am going to be honest with you gentleman. I have been craving pizza all day so I went back to the gym and did 45mins of cardio so I could afford to eat me two pieces of my brothers pizza he bought lol...


That, ladies and gentlemen, is a guilty conscience.

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## RangerDanger830

It sure is.

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## < <Samson> >

LMAO

I am so the same, I'm like I'll stay at the gym longer cause I ate that burrito.


At the end it is just cals in & cals out

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## RangerDanger830

> LMAO
> 
> I am so the same, I'm like I'll stay at the gym longer cause I ate that burrito.
> 
> 
> At the end it is just cals in & cals out


Well I knew I would be under calories regardless, I was just worried it would put me over on fats but it turned out okay. I miss the days of being a teenager with an amazing metabolism.

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## RangerDanger830

Well I have nothing new to report, haven't weighed myself today so I will get to that next time. No extra sides, no sides really. Still getting a little acid reflux but the tums gets rid of it almost immediately. I did see others doing something like this on their logs so I figured I would update some of the weights that I work out with in the gym. 

I have told you my routine in the original post but for the ease of reading let me retype it below. 

Day one: Chest/Tris/Cardio
Day two: Biceps/Shoulders/Abs and sometimes punching bag
Day three: Legs/Back/Cardio
Day four: Off/maybe cardio

Well I try to do a good amount of machines and free weights in my routines. Here are some of my weights I work out with. All of them are four sets of 10 reps each. I am only posting a few exercises as all of them would be too tedious, feel free to critique if something looks low, I have never really compared myself to anyone else. Keep in mind some exercises I can do more of, some I can do less, it depends on what order I do them in. 

Dumbell press flat: 140s, I could probably move up to say 150 but I am trying to keep from injuring my shoulders as that tends to happen if I push myself too hard
Dumbbell press incline: 115s
Tricep extensions: The whole stack is 220lbs on the cable machine, I can do that two handed all day every day so I do one arm at a time probably around 120lbs. 
Bicep curls: 60s but could probably move up to 65s, going to try soon, and no I do not rock or cheat when curling.
Dips: Bodyweight+ 135lbs (3 plates) 
Muscle ups: I usually do these on back day with my lat work out, I can't do four sets of ten but I can do three sets of five right now, working on getting that up just to show off. 
One arm dumbbell skullcrushers I am using 50lb dumbbells
Chin ups I just do body weight with my legs straight in front of me for the ab tension
Leg presses are pretty weak in my mind, I think I am around 410. 

Those are just some exercises to give you an idea. I do not do heavy deadlifts or squats because I have a back problem. I usually deadlift 150lbs and keep it there. I only squat around that too for the same reason. Keeping the weight low keeps my back from hurting. That is why I gave you leg press weights. I will add that I am maxing out everything on cable machines. I just put in straight in the bottom of the stack and most of them are getting too easy, like cable rows, so I am starting to shy away from them some.

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## cool7425

Thank you for keeping us posted on your progress man! Truly appreciate being able to learn through your posts.

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## RangerDanger830

> Thank you for keeping us posted on your progress man! Truly appreciate being able to learn through your posts.


Thanks for the support, if you ever have any questions just let me know and I will do the best I can to answer them. 

While I am on my computer and on here I might as well update everyone. I normally weigh in when I first wake up but I wanted to weigh in now just to throw a number in here since it has been a few days. Just keep the time of day in mind. I am up 6 pounds in week five right now. This may not seem like a lot but I am losing a noticeable amount of fat. I have not had my BF done up since I started but I can already tell I have much more definition in my abs than when I first started. Since me, and most men, lose fat in their midsection last usually that is a good indicator for me. I have also gotten more vascular, I am not a road map yet but if I kept this cycle up I could be, I kind of enjoy it. 

I did do bench press today with a barbell as it was chest and tris today. I did 4 sets of 8 reps with 315, which might not be a lot to some guys on here, it is the most I have ever worked out with. I remember my first day in the gym ever, I was benching the bar with 25s on each side. Boy how things change.

I have never done what one would call a "clean bulk," or others might call a recomp cycle so this was kind of my first stab at one. Usually I just bulk the hell up and get up to about 20% BF by the end of the cycle then after PCT start working my way down to about 14% again just to start all over. I will say that I am not gaining muscle like I usually do on cycle. I think I could've put on more muscle and retained more muscle if I would've done a traditional bulk cycle. The only problem is I would've gained a little more fat than I am now. The gains are there but eating close to TDEE on this cycle has turned it into more of a cutting/strengthening cycle. The anabolic strength of tren is what appealed to me most so I cant say I am displeased with what is happening. I estimate that when the cycle is all said and done I would've cut about 5% BF off of me and gained about 5lbs of lean muscle but we will see how that plays out. I will say that as far as cutting goes this is the biggest I have ever been on a cut at 220 right now. I work out with the same crew in the gym so everyone there is used to seeing me outdo them in the gym since they are all natural. I will say that it feels good to be getting looks again from people and I attribute it to my BF lowering at such a high weight. I have never been happier with myself. I seem to be proportioned well although I think my shoulders may be a little too big but I kind of like that, I have even considering taking up a few modeling jobs in the area at the end of this cycle. 

Enough ranting about my feels, the whole gyno issue does not seem to be getting worse but it is not getting better either so I am starting to worry. I have done a lot of thinking about it and I know a few things. I never get gyno from test cycles, so it must be the tren, therefore a prolactin issue. However, seeing that tren is 5x stronger than test it might not be prolactin. So what I did was instead of taking Adex at .25mg EOD which is what I usually start at, I bumped it up to .25mg ED. That has been going on for awhile yet and doesn't seem to be helping. I need to get bloods done but I have to make an APPT and they do not have anything until next week after Easter so I have to wait until then. After the AI dose change didn't help I experimented with the caber and changed it from 1mg a week which was split into two doses if .5mg on the days of my shots, I went up to 1.5mg a week, so .75mg twice a week. This hasn't helped either. I know my estrogen isn't too low yet from the AI because I can always feel it when it is. I am getting my letro in the mail tomorrow and will start with that. Since the letro is much stronger I will be able to take enough to rule out the gyno being an estrogen problem. If that fails to do anything in a few days I will try upping the caber to 2mg/week and see if that helps. I have never heard of anyone having to do that but it is worth a shot. If it gets any worse I will drop the tren, do two weeks of test like planned, then PCT shortly after that. I am unable to find andractim like was suggested as my supplier does not have any and I do not have any ways of finding other suppliers as I only know one other guy who uses personally and he uses my source. 

Other than that I feel great and have no sides to mention, no PIP at all after that first shot. I might get some more keto in and start doing some keto and clean once my PCt starts to cut even more fat. At 300 over TDEE I am not making huge gains but I am not cutting large amounts of fat either. Everything seems to be gradual. I may consider cutting my calories a little lower the second half of my cycle so as to take advantage of my anabolic state in a calorie deficit. I am still just kind of waiting to see how I am progressing as far as weight goes and the gyno goes before making any decisions.

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## kelkel

You need an E2 Sensitive Assay RD. Prolactin won't rise unless in the presence of high E.

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## RangerDanger830

> You need an E2 Sensitive Assay RD. Prolactin won't rise unless in the presence of high E.


I have one scheduled for this upcoming Tuesday. The guy I go through went to school with me so he hooks me up for free, the catch is that I have to have an appointment. But I get the results back in a day or two usually. In the mean time it seems to be staying where it is so I should be okay to wait until then.

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## RangerDanger830

Switching to Letro tomorrow, cardio is still going well on the elliptical. God help me if I try to run, the pumps make me want to punch crossfitters. Still seeing more vascularity all over which I attribute to fat loss and I read Tren has hemodilating effects as well but I haven't confirmed that, seems plausible.

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## RangerDanger830

I will update soon, I am a graduate student trying to finally get my PhD on of these decades so from time to time I get swamped and now is one of those times. Then to top it all off my gym is close Saturday and Sunday for Easter. I will try to get on here tomorrow, nothing major has happened in the last few days other than switching to Letro and waiting to get bloods done. Still seeing good progress and fat loss.

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## Docd187123

> I will update soon, I am a graduate student trying to finally get my PhD on of these decades so from time to time I get swamped and now is one of those times. Then to top it all off my gym is close Saturday and Sunday for Easter. I will try to get on here tomorrow, nothing major has happened in the last few days other than switching to Letro and waiting to get bloods done. Still seeing good progress and fat loss.


Keep it up RD830. Sounds like you're having one hell of a cycle lol! I'm on test and tren e myself and am loving it....minus the tren heartburn.

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## RangerDanger830

> Keep it up RD830. Sounds like you're having one hell of a cycle lol! I'm on test and tren e myself and am loving it....minus the tren heartburn.


Tell em about it, the heartburn/acid reflux is killing me at night but tums are doing fine to mitigate it for now. Only a few more weeks of Tren anyway. I ate so much crap for Easter it was an epic cheat day. But with the Tren it seems I am still losing fat regardless, which means it truly does live up to its name for power. 

I will say that people weren't kidding when they say Tren is harsh. The sides aren't terrible at first glance but even with a lose dose of cialis my BP was still high this weekend and my HR is high also. I increased the dose of cialis a little bit and I will see how that goes, I have been logging my vitals every day or two in my phone. There is actually a pretty clever little HR app on the iphone that was very accurate to what was in the clinic when I got my bloods done last time. 

I stopped eating above my TDEE and am sticking around my TDEE lately in order to hit the fat loss a little harder towards the tail end of the cycle and it seems to be working wonders for me. I am down to 217, which equates to a net gain of 3lbs since I started the cycle but once you see pics of the fat loss you will be much more surprised. If I were to add a few weeks of Tren I could easily get below 10% if I wanted, part of me just wants to be off cycle and natural for awhile though. 

I did up the dose of Adex and now I am feeling out how much Letro I need for this cycle but so far my estrogen levels feel as if they are more under control than a few weeks ago. Bloods should tell me by the end of this week. Got a lot on my plate this week, many presentations and travelling for a research project I have been doing so this week will be bare as far as updates go.

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## Docd187123

> Tell em about it, the heartburn/acid reflux is killing me at night but tums are doing fine to mitigate it for now. Only a few more weeks of Tren anyway. I ate so much crap for Easter it was an epic cheat day. But with the Tren it seems I am still losing fat regardless, which means it truly does live up to its name for power. 
> 
> I will say that people weren't kidding when they say Tren is harsh. The sides aren't terrible at first glance but even with a lose dose of cialis my BP was still high this weekend and my HR is high also. I increased the dose of cialis a little bit and I will see how that goes, I have been logging my vitals every day or two in my phone. There is actually a pretty clever little HR app on the iphone that was very accurate to what was in the clinic when I got my bloods done last time. 
> 
> I stopped eating above my TDEE and am sticking around my TDEE lately in order to hit the fat loss a little harder towards the tail end of the cycle and it seems to be working wonders for me. I am down to 217, which equates to a net gain of 3lbs since I started the cycle but once you see pics of the fat loss you will be much more surprised. If I were to add a few weeks of Tren I could easily get below 10% if I wanted, part of me just wants to be off cycle and natural for awhile though. 
> 
> I did up the dose of Adex and now I am feeling out how much Letro I need for this cycle but so far my estrogen levels feel as if they are more under control than a few weeks ago. Bloods should tell me by the end of this week. Got a lot on my plate this week, many presentations and travelling for a research project I have been doing so this week will be bare as far as updates go.


At the recommendation of someone on another forum, I've been taking Prilosec to battle the heartburn/acid reflux. Tums just won't cut it as I smother my food in hot sauce as well lol. If you need something more try some Prikosec. 

When I first started this cycle I dropped ~10lbs. I've regained 5 since adding the tren and my eating habits are the same. It's definitely providing a little recomp affect lol. 

Have you been experiencing any aggression or any of the other sides?

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## RangerDanger830

A little aggression and sometimes coupled with PTSD it gets the best of me but I've been dealing with it for so many years I've learned to mitigate my frustration well. It did get bad enough today to take my first dose of Prilosec. Going to keep it up for a little bit past my Tren . It definitely is good for recomp though, that's for sure. Other than a very small increase in aggression I've had the high bp, reflux and heartburn, no brown urine, no cardio issues other than the worst muscle pumps I've ever had. Other than that I'm very happy with it, the sides aren't that bad.

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## RangerDanger830

Boy do I have an update for you people. Well let me start by being honest. I was an infantryman in the Army and I always seemed to get the crap end of the stick in deployments. I lost a lot of friends, where most guys lose a buddy or two, I lost twelve in a little over a year. It took me five years to be able to talk about it and I'm still a little behind the power curve on learning to live with PTSD. I have a service dog I got recently and that seems to be a good stress reliever along with talking about it to my close friends. 

Well among the typical PTSD symptoms, a few of them stand out more than others. I used to have a bad temper but I've gotten to where I can control it. The other symptoms are fairly easily dealt with also. 

So this leads me into the main topic. I have been having trouble sleeping. I always have insomnia, that's nothing new. But I've been sleep walking violently. Normally I'll wake up in the middle of the night, cuss someone out, push someone off of me, but that's off cycle. On cycle I've found that it is worse, most likely due to me not having control of my anger in my sleep coupled with increased irritability from the compounds. Last cycle I did that had high doses in it I woke up on top of my ex strangling her with both hands. Keep in mind I've never been a violent person towards women, and had no reason to do that to her as our relationship was good at the time, I just don't know why I did it. 

Well the Tren seems to be strong enough to do the same thing. I'm currently engaged to be married in a few days and I am extremely happy with my woman. However, that didn't stop me from punching her in the arm in my sleep. I do not know why and I feel terrible about it. What's even worse is that the very next night I woke up, grabbed the bedroom door, and tore it off the hinges for no reason. I recall my dream and it wasn't bad. I do not know why I did it. I tore my door off my bedroom!!! I'm impressed at my strength but it sucks when you're an adult having to fix it. 

I wanted to share this for entertainment value and to let anyone with PTSD be forewarned to be extra careful on cycle. I am now living in a state of fear at what I'll wake up to next. I called the VA about this on 18 NOV 2013 and the just sent me a letter this week saying they are working on getting me an appointment. I am getting disability for PTSD.

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## cool7425

Sorry to hear about the mood altering effects of your cycle. Have you tried any natural relaxants to help?

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## RangerDanger830

> Sorry to hear about the mood altering effects of your cycle. Have you tried any natural relaxants to help?


No not yet, I have always been a hard ass and said I didn't need them but after these last few incidences I will be willing to try some if my situation doesn't approve after my pct. I figure it'll take that long for the va to get me in anyway. I don't want to scare anyone away from Tren so I will say that I am also under more stress than usual. I just moved into a new home, getting my phd is difficult, and some potential trouble with my ex as she is serious with a military man which means in a year or two he will be moving, which means my son might also. 

Other than that I can't complain. At week six I really started seeing the Tren work powerfully.

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## RangerDanger830

> At the recommendation of someone on another forum, I've been taking Prilosec to battle the heartburn/acid reflux. Tums just won't cut it as I smother my food in hot sauce as well lol. If you need something more try some Prikosec. 
> 
> When I first started this cycle I dropped ~10lbs. I've regained 5 since adding the tren and my eating habits are the same. It's definitely providing a little recomp affect lol. 
> 
> Have you been experiencing any aggression or any of the other sides?


Thanks for the comment, I always enjoy reading what you have to say more than most.

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## derekkpapa1

good blog ranger wish you all best with your run

And of coarse thank you for service

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## RangerDanger830

I completely forgot to talk about my bloods. Nothing interesting to note, test was high as usual, prolactin was normal thank goodness, but my hematocrit is a little high so I'll fix that soon before I feel negative effects. Estrogen was the only surprising part of the test, it was low. I guess switching to letro I have been using too much.

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## RangerDanger830

Weighed in today since it has been awhile, at 222. Body weight seems to be fluctuating the last day or two, not sure why. I assume it is because I am still tweaking the dose of letro since I was taking too much. That is the only explanation I can think of as my diet has been consistent. Week eight starting this Friday.

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## RangerDanger830

My BF% has been fluctuating on cycle as I attempted to dial in the best calorie range for a recomp cycle. So far I am still not completely sold on the whole recomp thing. It seems convenient if I am cycling in the Spring just before warm weather. Any other time I would still prefer traditional bulking and cutting, but maybe I am just set in my ways with what I know best. 

So here is a sneak peak forearm picture. It sure doesn't look like kel's legs but considering where I started, which was no vascularity where you could barely see the blue of the veins, to this is good for me in just a few weeks.



I am having dieters remorse, I underestimated the power of Tren so I did not eat with a big calorie deficit, not as big as I could have. Now that I am somewhat familiar with Tren I know I can go much lower. It just sucks that I didn't realize how low I could go until the second half of the cycle. I was just trying to err on the side of caution and not lose too much LBM.

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## RangerDanger830

I do not know how this happened as I have always injected .1ml extra of each compound per injection but I have enough compounds to run my Tren 12 weeks and Test to week 14. I am on week 7, a lot of people advise against Tren that long so I have a decision to make. I am at least running Tren 10 weeks.

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## RangerDanger830

Up 7lbs, continuing to lose fat. Heartburn was corrected by Prevacid, I haven't had a single flare up since starting it. It is MUCH better than just eating tums which only help briefly but faster acting. 

Getting leaner now, still not as lean as I'd like to be but I haven't been eating at a huge deficit either like mentioned before. Getting stronger still, I would recommend ten weeks on Tren at this dose. It took til about week 6 until the benefits were obvious in the mirror. 

High libido still with this ratio of Tren:test. Not many issues from the caber either. Insomnia is still the same as before. I think those with the severe sides are just using doses too high, 400mg seems great. 

Acne just starting popping up, nothing bad though. I've inly had two pimples on my back and maybe 5 elsewhere. They aren't big, not like teenagers'. They're hardly noticeable but I suspect it'll worsen slightly before it's said and done. 

As of right now my side effects are all mild and consist of: 

Slightly high BP, sweats, shortness of breath, and the only other one is not mild and it is the muscle pumps. Worst ones I've ever had but as long as you avoid certain exercises you're good.

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## ghettoboyd

400mg is my sweet spot for tren as well...ive tried up to 600 for a whole cycle once and I was miserable with the sides and the higher dose didn't equal better results imho no better than 400mg...ive been on cycle with tren at 400mg for the last 10 weeks and im cool as a cucumber and actually loving the results...im actually able to do cardio for 20-30 mins post workout with no issues...glad things are going well buddy keep at it...

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## RangerDanger830

Thanks, as far as cardio goes I can use the elliptical all day, running and jump rope is out of the question. Tren being as anabolic as it is I have no need to do large amounts of cardio so the elliptical is plenty.

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## ghettoboyd

> Thanks, as far as cardio goes I can use the elliptical all day, running and jump rope is out of the question. Tren being as anabolic as it is I have no need to do large amounts of cardio so the elliptical is plenty.


the elliptical is what I use as well cus its so low impact on my knees, but I did finally get to go mountain biking for 2hrs yesterday so I guess im going to get my cardio in this way till it gets too dam hot...anyways nice log...

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## RangerDanger830

Thanks, I love mountain biking too. There's some tough trails where I live that take my ego down a few notches every time I go.

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## cool7425

How has your mood been lately? Found a way to let the tren not affect your mood as much?

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## RangerDanger830

Well to be honest my mood is about normal. Even better than it has been on previous cycles. I think the reason is that I'm just getting better at controlling my emotions. My main issue on cycle is fussing at my woman. If you've ever spent a lot of time in serious relationships you know being calm and communicative is the best way to go. 

There is no doubt that these substances affect your mood, but I do think a lot of guys blow it out of proportion. I have been struggling with PTSD and anger issues for years now so I've figured out how to avoid stressors well. I think that may be another reason I've been so calm.

The secret for me is to vent, if I let things build up in cycle, even a little, I'll explode. I think managing your other hormones such as estrogen well makes the cycle as mild as it can be. 

Aside from anger, my libido has been fairly high. Not as high as a pure test cycle but higher than average. I've been motivated more and more as the cycle goes on. I've even made an attempt at not being an introvert anymore and starting hanging out with a few people from my university outside of work/class. 

Hope that answer was adequate. I will say this is my 8th ish cycle so I have quite a bit of practice with controlling my mood. I was a drill sergeant in the Army at Benning and you get pretty good at turning off and on emotions. But then again, everyone is different. Just don't let on cycle behavior make you who you are or ruin your relationships.

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## RangerDanger830

Up to 221-222. Not sure on BF, never got that scan done. I took the advice given early on in this cycle and am doing a few more weeks. Instead of 10 on Tren and 12 on test I'll do 11 and 13 since thats the amount if compounds I have, might as well finish it off. In case you missed it my original plan was 8 and 10. 

Still getting stronger. I went to a powerlifting gym today and lifted heavy just for the sake of not having done it in awhile. In conclusion I am much stronger than the weights I posted previously. I had no issue doing 4 sets if 8 reps of 365 on flat bench. I was dipping 4 sets of 8 with four "biscuits" as the Rock calls em. The owner invited me to a private competition this Saturday after seeing me lift. I guess the Tren has been working better than I thought. This makes me wonder what could've been if I would've done a traditional bulk cycle with heavy lifting. 

Abs are more defined every day, I love it. Still sweating my ass off with hot flashes. Not sure if I typed this yet but the Prevacid is amazing for the reflux.

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## kelkel

> Not sure if I typed this yet but the Prevacid is amazing for the reflux.


Amazing stuff isn't it!

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## RangerDanger830

> Amazing stuff isn't it!


Heck yeah it is. Tums are nothing in comparison. I haven't had a single incident since I started taking it.

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## cool7425

Great progress and good to hear about your mood being in check. I was just curious since I'm getting ready to start my own 12 week Tren A cycle and wanted some warning about the sides. I'm not aggressive either on cycle (done about 3 cycles of dbol /deca /test), but I had heard that Tren came with more sides, so I was just wondering. 

The one thing that does happen to me during PCT is that I get super emotional/depressed-like. I've had a few days in the past where I just felt like crying for no reason at all. Once I start to think about it I realize it's all hormonal -- though that doesn't really get rid of the feelings. Hopefully you won't go through anything like that during your PCT. I'll continue to follow your progress and will let you know how things work out on my own cycle.

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## RangerDanger830

The negative sides during and after PCT have only happened to me when I didn't do the cycle right. By right I mean right for me also with the doses I needed. Since I started HCG and got a good grasp on my AI and PCT doses I've never had so much as a hiccup coming off cycle, knock on wood. Then again, we will see how this Tren cycle goes.

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## RangerDanger830

So close to graduating! Almost done. After Monday I'll have some time off until a committee meets August 1st to see if I deserve a doctoral degree. Until then I'm a lot less busy. But I have no idea what else to log here until I discuss how my PCT goes. So if anyone has any questions, recommendations, or requests let me know.

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## cool7425

Congrats on your upcoming graduation! It's a big accomplishment. I hope you enjoy your "downtime" and have a chance to recover from years of hard work. Happy to hear how PCT goes for you. Would you feel ok posting some before and after pictures at this point? or, do you want to wait until after PCT?

I just started my own tren cycle on Monday and everything feels normal up to this point. I've had 2 shots up to this point. BP is normal. I have a little heartburn, but it could just be because of all the food I'm downing. I'm stocked up on Prevacid, as you suggested.  :7up:  :7up:

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## RangerDanger830

I would rather wait til after PCT. Also, I hate to say this but the pictures will be in different rooms with the light as similar as I can get it. I recently moved to another town nearby since I am done with school pending a graduation ceremony and one more board review which should go smoothly. 

I did buy some BF calipers, although they aren't exact it is just easier since the nearest bod pod is now 90mins away. I will try to use them, never used them before, once they get here in the mail. When I do get the pictures taken I will send them to you via PM.

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## cool7425

Thanks bro! Much appreciated. Day 5 of the tren cycle for me (3 shots) and still don't feel don't feel any effects, other than being more "mucousy".

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## Buster Brown

Very nice log. I agree that recomps sound good but in the end I think you end up with very little to show after pct. Wise to pick a bulk or cut and go with it. Keep up the good work.

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## RangerDanger830

> Very nice log. I agree that recomps sound good but in the end I think you end up with very little to show after pct. Wise to pick a bulk or cut and go with it. Keep up the good work.


Thanks and you're either right or we're just both doing it wrong. I'm going to bet on the first one. 

I've never heard of increased congestion on Tren . A lot of AAS are known to suppress immune systems some so maybe that's going on in conjunction with seasonal allergies. Oh how I do not miss botany.

Thanks for the support, I haven't been on lately because I've been traveling, I'm down in GA now. I'll be back in NC tomorrow and will try to get on more thereafter. So far I'm not very impressed with the results of this cycle. I feel like a lot of Tren's anabolic capacity was wasted due to my recomp attempt. I get these same results from regular old test cycles nearly. 

I am contemplating going natural indefinitely, I have a future with family to worry about.

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## RangerDanger830

Nothing incredibly amazing to report. Nearing the end of my cycle and while I may not be ecstatic with the results in the mirror, I am not disappointed either. As far as my strength goes however, I am extremely happy. I did chest yesterday and managed 3 sets of 6 reps of 365lbs on the incline barbell bench press. That is the most I have ever attempted. I am confident my max is just over 400lbs but do not care to worry about maxes too much. 

I am considering starting come Clen during PCT, or just after, still debating. I'll have to get some more Keto as I am out anyway so no rush. I did start stacking some arginine pills with my cycle in place of cialis and while they do not work quite as good, it is still a viable option as long as you are taking enough. I have to take 5g a day for my body weight. 

By the way, ran out of prevacid and had some other OTC acid reflux pills lying around so I have tried them for the last week. They work a little but not nearly as good as Prevacid. The active ingredient is Famotidine so try to stear clear of that unless you have to. I took the max dose recommended and was still dealing with regular reflux, just not as severe.

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## RangerDanger830

Sorry gents, I haven't forgotten about this just yet. For those asking about pictures, I would like to wait until after PCT if complete so I haven't taken any yet. As far as my stats, haven't measured my BF in the last week but last I checks I was down 2.5%, give or take as my first reading was in a bod pod pre-cycle and this one was with calipers. I am still happy nonetheless. 

As far as how I feel, ehh, I feel like I have been cycling compounds for so long I have almost forgotten what being off cycle feels like. I went straight from some CJC/GHRP2 to some Clen then straight into this cycle. I feel good though, libido is starting to wear my woman down to the point that she is praying for the compounds to leave my system. We are doing it 3ish times a day and I still want more. I can't blame her for complaining. That just goes to show some of you guys that not a lot of Test is needed with Tren . I will say that I frontloaded the Tren and Test equally and the Tren overpowered the Test in the first few weeks. My libido was pretty low. If I do cycle again I will do the test just one week in advance. 

So I feel good in the gym, motivated, heart rate isn't too high. RHR has maxed at 87 since I have been measuring the last few weeks. Sweating is still an issue, but then again I am a sweater anyway. Acid reflux is handled thanks to OTC meds. 

I have been getting one negative side effect that I get with all 19nors after the 9th week and a few weeks after I am off and that is acne. It isn't serious, not teenager bad, but there are 3 pimples on my chest, and maybe 6 others scattered across my shoulders, back, and upper arms. Nothing too serious but for someone who is worried about aesthetics like I am it bothers me. It always goes away fairly quickly. I took a massive, over the top, unnecessarily stupid cycle of Deca one time and it did not go away quickly and it was a ton of acne. So I would say if anyone gets it severely then your dose was too high for you, or you just have shitty skin. 

I am much more defined than when I started, I would say it did a good job cutting me up. I just think that when taking Tren and trying to cut some BF it is best to hit up a fairly large deficit in calories. I would feel comfortable going 500 under and still not expect to lose much muscle at all. 

I will probably not update any time soon. I will wait and update mid PCT and then after PCT, unless something crazy happens that I do not see coming. 

I would like to add that I do believe I have a very high tolerance to letro. I know my source is legit because my gym buddy just crashed his estrogen using letro from the same source. I trust his word as he has always been honest with me about his sides, and we went to war together. After getting that BW done I noticed my estrogen was still a little on the high end and I was taking quite a bit of letro. So I took a dose of 2.5mg of letro ED for a week and got BW done again and it was still in the high end of the normal range. Just food for thought, I am open to suggestions. I even tried shaking my letro up even though I am pretty sure you don't need to do that with liquid letro. I knew something was up because I have crashed my estrogen before and I can feel when it is getting low and I never felt that at all as of yet.

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## RangerDanger830

Quick update:

Currently on PCT and have had no issues at all, nearly. Libido has not dropped one bit, strength and stamina are just fine, and the sweating and reflux has subsided. My RHR has gone down to much lower and safer levels as well as my BP. 

The bad side effect is the acne. It always happens to me with 19nors. Nothing crazy bad like a teenager though and all on my chest and back, none of my face luckily. It isn't enough to be self conscious about with a shirt off though. A week into my PCT it was already going away and almost completely gone now. 

The gyno never got worse but it never went away either. It is a little puffy, not embarrassingly puffy, but it bothers me. My woman says she can't even tell. Once my PCT ends I am going to pick up with some Ralox and from my previous experience with gyno that should clear it right up since this isn't nearly as bad as my other time I got it. I still believe I have a tolerance for SERMs and AIs. The proof is in the pudding when I get bloodwork done. 

I haven't done up the final tally yet but I think all in all, just guessing here based on the mirror, I have gained about 5lbs total but gone down 3% BF. I am pretty happy with those results. It wasn't my most successful cycle ever but then again it was my first attempt at recomp and Tren E so I learned enough to better take advantage of a future Tren cycle if I so choose. I will update again after PCT. 

I haven't forgotten about the pics for those of you asking. I am going to post two pictures from one month prior to the cycle and roughly two weeks after PCT has ended.

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## derekkpapa1

Glad everything seems to be going well been following along rooting for ya

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## RangerDanger830

Having done a few cycles, I've had a ton of excess pct products like Nolva lying around, some liquid and some tabs. Since I have so much more Nolva than Ralox I decided to go with the Nolva to see if it'll do. 

I chose to take 20mg of Nolva a day the last few weeks of my cycle since gyno started to appear, I also upped my AI dose a little. It didn't get better but it didn't get worse. 

After the cycle I upped the dose of Nolva to 40mg a day as per my pct plans, haven't touched my clomid dose though. The gyno wasn't getting much better so I decided to rely on my hunch that I had a tolerance of sorts to Nolva and upped my dose to 60mg a day. Since I've done that my nipples lost sensitivity completely in a few days and the puffiness has been cut in half. 

I've always preferred Ralox and never tried Nolva before but at least I know the Nolva is a good plan B for gyno. I expect my next post to say it's gone. 

Libido finally lowered today. It's hard to quantify it but the easiest way I try is to just say sex twice a day is enough to satisfy me. On cycle three times a day is my norm.

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