# STEROIDS FORUM > ANABOLIC STEROIDS - QUESTIONS & ANSWERS >  The best A.I to run during Test-E cycle

## nombie

What is the best A.I to run during 10 week cycle of Test-E?? My cycle looks like this:-

Week 1-10: 500 mg of Test E (2 shots)
Week 3-10: HCG 500I.U (2 shots)
Week 12-14: 40mg nolva ed
Week 14-16: 20mg Nolva ed

I believe that A.I is essential if using HCG during cycle. I have at hand exemestane 25mg tablets which are manufactured by a certain underground research lab, and I dont like the look of them and cant have the gear checked or name the company which sucks  :Frown: 

What is the best A.I to run during cycle and how will it hinder my gains???

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## RyanRoss

I would say arimidex bro, at .25mg everyday. I don't believe it hinders gains honestly. I believe people think since there is less weight gain that = less gains in general. I've used arimidex throughout all cycles at .25mg everyday and I've stayed dry, and still had great gains but instead of the usual 20-25 pounds its more or less 10-15 solid pounds without all the water and bloat.

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## CHUCKYthentic

arimidex at .25mg EOD .5mg EOD at very most

you need some clomid added to that pct

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## CHUCKYthentic

ya you could go every day with the adex, i prefer EOD, works for me

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## Swifto

Arimidex 0.5mg/EOD or Aromasin 10mg/EOD.

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## nombie

> arimidex at .25mg EOD .5mg EOD at very most
> 
> you need some clomid added to that pct


Is nolvadex not enough for PCT?

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## Critical Mass

Some like to add clomid to the mix.

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## CHUCKYthentic

some will say yes, most should say no.

see that guy right above your last post, Swifto, well he has a great sticky in the PCT threads and a recent thread here floatin around in the Q&A (should be a few posts down from this one). i suggest going ahead and reading those and a few other PCT stickies and you should have your answer man.

good luck

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## nombie

forgive me for being ignorant but both nolva and clomid are serm., so why have 2 different types of serm for PCT?

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## Ronnie Rowland

> Arimidex 0.5mg/EOD or Aromasin 10mg/EOD.


Swifto's dosages are good for those who really need them but you'll be better off not using anything if you can get by with it. 

Arimidex and Aromasin can cause joint pain and lethargicness. I've watched
guys do upwards of 4 grams of test per week while using no anties and experiencing no symptoms of gyno.

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## CHUCKYthentic

no need to ask forgivness.... like i said, some will say nolva is enough. IMO and experience, that wasnt the case. ran PCT with just nolva once and it didnt compare to my PCT recovery at all with clomid and nolva (10x better recovery)

yes they are both SERMs, but in that they have been proven to offer some different qualities in terms of aiding your recovery. if you read some of the stickies you should see what i mean

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## nombie

> Swifto's dosages are good for those who really need them but you'll be better off not using anything if you can get by with it. 
> 
> Arimidex and Aromasin can cause joint pain and lethargicness. I've watched
> guys do upwards of 4 grams of test per week while using no anties and experiencing no symptoms of gyno.


So I can run HCG without A.I?

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## Ronnie Rowland

> So I can run HCG without A.I?


Yes you could, but I would suggest waiting until you finish your anabolic cycle and then add in hcg and a.i.

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## Swifto

> Yes you could, but I would suggest waiting until you finish your anabolic cycle and then add in hcg and a.i.


Why do you suggest this Ronnie?

I am of the opinoin that estrogen should not reach suprephysiological levels at all. It should alsoways be in normal, or just below normal ranges. High estrogen levels have no benifit to the bodybuilder whatsoever, neither do low estrogen levels. Thats why estrogen management is so important and doses need to be correct for the individual.

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## Ronnie Rowland

> Why do you suggest this Ronnie?
> 
> I am of the opinoin that estrogen should not reach suprephysiological levels at all. It should alsoways be in normal, or just below normal ranges. High estrogen levels have no benifit to the bodybuilder whatsoever, neither do low estrogen levels. Thats why estrogen management is so important and doses need to be correct for the individual.


What I am not a fan of Swifto is taking anti-es when they are not neccesary and this happens all too often IMO. Anti-estrogens such as arimidex cause joint pain for many and that's my biggest concern. People need to realize these are very powerful drugs that were designed for cancer patients not bodybuilders. They can ruin your joints permanetly! Heres a link you will want to read through. Look at how many are in crippling pain from either using arimidex or having used arimidex. SCARY STUFF! http://www.askapatient.com/viewratin...&name=ARIMIDEX

Some people can take only 1 drop of arimidex and hurt like crazy in their joints (even while using deca .) Drugs like arimidex will put you at a higher risk for clogged arteries by lowering good cholesterol. You need estrogen to help cholesterol levels. The aromatization of testosterone to estradiol helps prevent the negative effects of androgens on serum lipids. In one study 300 mgs of test enanthate was used for 20 weeks with no anti-es. The testosterone showed only a 12% decrease in HDL but when anti-es were introdcued with 300 mgs of test for 20 weeks, the reduction in HDL increased to 25% (thats double!) 

Estrogen can increase androgen receptor binding, increase androgen receptors, keep serotonin levels in check-hence allowing for better sleep, more energy, improved mood, and a better sex drive. Estrogen increases GH/IGF-1 and improves glucose utilization. This glucose aid the pentose phosphate pathway which helps dictate the speed muscle tissue will be repaired. 

It's no secret that the best mass building steroids are aloo the ones that convert to estrogen. The extra water retention from estrogen allows you to lift more-hence an increase in size! Use too many anti-es and you might as well take a non-aromatizing steroid like winstrol . 

People who notice signs of gyno or who know from past experiences they are prone to gyno should indeed use a small amount of anti-es to help with that particular problem but for those who do not have this issue, then I think it's best to not use anti-es so that maximum gains in tissue can ocurr without having to deal with all the side effects of these powerful anti-cancer drugs!

A FEW TESTIMONIALS-http://www.askapatient.com/viewratin...&name=ARIMIDEX


Endometrial Stromal Sarcoma OMG, reading all your stories really hits home with me. I had a TAH in January of this year. I have been on Arimidex for about 3 months. Was on Provera before, but it didn't agree with me. I feel sick all the time. Nausea, shortness of breath, insomnia, numbness in hands, joint pain. I could go on. My doc more or less blows it off as just real bad menopause. Have pain on my right side below rib cage for 2 mos. now. Have to have CT Scan tomorrow. I think this drug has alot to do w/my syptoms. Any info is much appreciated. If the scan comes up negative, I would like to go off the Arimidex just to see if I feel any better. I could always try Femera. F 42 3 months 10/11/2009

1 Her2 Brest Cancer This is an update to an earlier rating I added. I was having "Carpral Tunnel" pain my doc refused to believe me when I told her she stated "NO Way" I stopped going to her and started seeing a new oncologist last week she printed out info. on Arimidex and it has now been confirmed this medicine DOES Cause Carpral Tunnel this info. was given me by my Doctor so ladies I am starting Aromasin hope I have better luck with it. I also have Lymphedema and had a blood clot the clot is cleared for now I am still suffering with Lymphedema and Carpral tunnel pain good luck to all who are still using Arimidex Please if you want a copy of this info email me and I will send it to you F 60 1 months 10/10/2009
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4 Stage1 BC/no lymph node removed nausea past two weeks, occasional back pain. I get relief from my chiropracter I have been taken arimidex for 4 months and just within the two weeks I have been feeling nausea. My oncologist says it is not the arimidex. Not really sure why I see her, when I tell her how I am feeling she says it is not the arimidex. I don't know what to do. She says to take prilosec, so I am going to try it now. F 52 4 months 10/7/2009
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4 Breast Cancer Her2+ BRAC2+ Stage 3 Hot flashes, joint pain & stiffness, trigger fingers, tingling & numbness in hands & feet, mouth & throat sores, occasional memory problems, no sexual desire, big weight gain, etc. - I am High, High risk - right mastectomy 2007 Oopharectomy 2008 I'd like to give a little encouragement, my hands are better! It happened around a year out - they were very bad for about a year, I even had an arthritic lump at the joint of one finger - now all gone! Hang in there ladies it does get better! I still have days I ache all over & have other symptoms but I am at least 75% improved & no more cancer! F 51 2 years 10/6/2009
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4 BC, Stage 1, no nodes Occasional severe hip and knee pain of days. I have wondered whether Arimidex depleats minerals. So twice have taken Twin Labs Multi Minerals and the pain was gone after about 3 days. Not sure of cause and effect. But it seems to work for me. Early side effects included feeling tired, slow and old. Of course just knowing you have breast cancer can make you feel that way. Best therapy - spending time with friends and family - keeping your mind on more positive things.Of course, I hope Arimidex lives up to my expectations in the long run. Time will tell. F 69 3 years 10/6/2009

2 Breast Cancer Insomnia, shortness of breathe, waking up at all hours and feeling disoriented. Joint pain and no energy at all. Also when I wake up I feel like I can not breathe at all. Not a good feeling. I was told by my doctor I would not experience any side effects at all. Boy was he wrong. Will stop taking it and see just what the percentage of my getting cancer again with out taking it is. If it is very low then I will take my chances. Really need to be able to work right now. F 57 4 days 9/26/2009
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1 BC Stage 1 ER+ with neg nodes Fatigue, extreme pain in joints, muscles and bones of feet, ankles,legs,knees,back, shoulders, elbows, hands, fingers, wrists, and headaches. Stiffness in ankles, knees upon arising in morning and standing up after sitting for a while. At this point, I question whether to continue this drug. I've been on it for 3 and 1/2 months and feel progressively worse each day. Have begun a "two week vacation" from Arimidex with the approval of my oncologist. When I meet with her in two weeks, since I have no pain since stopping this drug (24 hours), I cannot find a reason to continue it. How can a drug that feels like it is poison in my body actually be doing a good thing for me? Is there an alternative that is any better tolerated? F 69 110 days 9/22/2009
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3 BC + 4 lymph nodes in 2006 Did the mastectomy, chemo and radiation as there is a strong history of breast cancer in my family. I experience bone pain, muscle aches, hot flashes usually preceded by an sudden moment of anxiety, depression (related to not having any estrogen>, thinning hair and lots of headaches. Cranky off and on. If one looks at the literature about Arimidex, the incidences of most of the side effects are supposed to be "rare". If one reads this website, they might not be so rare and when more than one is present, they pile up. I take extra calcium and Vit. D, MSM for pain, Zoloft for the blues, exercise 3 times a week at the gym and living in a rural area, there's always something to be done on the property. I'm feeling a little frustrated because 5+ side effects at a time, are very energy consuming. I'm grateful for the progress in the treatment of BC however, this stuff is rough F 62 23 months 9/20/2009

4 Lower estrogen levels Muscle aches, joint pains, hot flashes. Minor nausea at beginning. Exercise, especially water aerobics, helped with muscle and joint pain. Massages were useful to alleviate muscle discomfort. F 55 4 years 9/19/2009
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1 breast cancer Why dont they mention hair loss as a side effect and how it can age you. but I guess this drug is given to older women only, who cares if it ruins our appearence as long as it keeps cancer away right? I understand this is a fairly new drug with so many side effects. That is frightening. 60 9/19/2009

4 Stage 1 invasive breast cancer Increased joint and muscle pain in legs and lower back. Had previously had mild problems in these areas, but now very intensified. Feel like I'm 100 years old trying to get out of a chair. No hot flashes. Slight weight gain. I have been on Arimidex for six months. Told both my oncologist and surgeon about the severe joint and muscle pain. Both mentioned that patients who experience this have better results. In other words, it's working. I can put up with the aches and pains as long as there is no recurrence of cancer. Have been told I will be on Arimidex for five years. F 73 6 months 9/14/2009

5 Breast Cancer stage 3 Took Tomoxiphen for 2 1/2 years -- experienced weight gain, very achy joints, bone 'pain' extreme hot flashes -- but I was alive -- switched to Arimidex consider it Tomoxiphen (SP) light. Side effects 75% less harsh. Cancer free 6+ years F 56 3 years 9/9/2009
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3 Prevent a recurrence of lobluar car I've been on the drug for a year and have experienced mild side effects: hot flashes, knee joint discomfort, experience stiffness in am. and after sitting for an hour. Some weight gain (5-7 lbos), some loss of libido, and stomach discomfort. Overall, I'm hoping these mild side affects are worth the benefit of my cancer not recurring. F 62 1 years 9/8/2009

2 Breast Cancer Invasive stage 1 Carpal Tunnel was under control before Arimidex but worsen to the point of surgery in July. Surgery is scheduled for Trigger Finger and left hand tendinitis. Feet hurt in the morning when getting out of bed. Brain fog, lack of motivation, severe depression even on Wellbutrin, tiredness, ADD. And on and on. After 6 months I stopped taking Arimidex but symptoms have not completely gone away. Started Tamoxifen in July. Don't have any new side effects except for a 5 lb weight gain which I'll work on. But really, how could I tell with so many side effects still there from Arimidex? Depression is much better! F 59 6 months 9/7/2009

2 Prevent breast cancer return Severe joint pain and swelling of extremeties (now have "cankles"), osteoarthritis in both knees, weight gain (actually happened on Tamoxifen). Ortho. surgeon now talking about knee replacement. I'm not even 50! Will this go away eventually? I went hiking 1 year ago, right AFTER finishing chemo and radiation. Now in so much joint pain that I can hardly walk or get up out of chairs. Have had surgery on right knee. Keep testing me for lupus (always negative). Pain came on sooo fast. Oncologist insists it's the "chemo-pause" and not the medications. F 48 2 months 9/3/2009
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4 breast cancer stage II a i have severe carpal tunnel and tendonitis. i have degenerative disc disease in my kneck. i am tired most of the time and have brain fog. it sounds bad but i have a great quality of life. i exercise five times a week and i am a type a personality, nothing stops me. i feel blessed to be alive. i have one more year to go on this medicine and then hopefully all the side effects will go away. i took tamoxifen for 5 years and then took femara for a few months. femara is awful!!! i could hardly walk up and down the stairs my hips hurt so bad!!! i gave it a four because i feel it is what i am supposed to take and my doctor tells me i am cured. i feel blessed. F 48 4 years 8/30/2009

3 Third BC diagnosis. Foot, leg, shoulder and hand pain. Balance and Fuzzy Brain. Sore throat,ear and headache.Fatigue, I can fall asleep anywhere but can't stay asleep for more than an hour or two hours at a time. Depressed - Have taken anti-depressants since last BC treatment. Also take thyroid medication since last radiation treatment in 2001. Some hot flashes, not like tamoxifin. I gave it a three because I don't know if it works. Took Tamoxifin for five years and have had two recurrances. Since this is my third go around with BC, 1st time '93 Stage II with nodes, Lumpectomey, chemo and radiation. Second time in 2001 -no nodes, Lumpectomy and radiation. So - this times I had a bilateral mastectomy. They found cancer in my left breast too, that was not found in Mammogram. Right breast discovered in mammography. I could not afford to order the refill after having my insurance changed so until I found the $$ I was off the drug for seven days. The quality of my life improved and I didn't connect it to the drug until today. I did let my Dr. know at the first follow up visit that I wanted to stop the drug. He persuaded me to give it another chance. Now - I do not know. I know I get too tired to go back to work right now.I make myself do water aerobics 5 days a week and walk every day. F 69 3 months 8/30/2009

3 Breast Cancer Hot flashes, numbness in right arm and hand, especially at night, weight gain, sleepless nights, had severe arthiritis is left hand, could not use it, severe knee pain. I took my last pill of arimidex in July 2009, the pain in my knee is gone, severe, arthiritis in left hand is gone, no longer take medication for arthiritis. Sleep through the entire night now, numbness in right hand and arm are gone, I feel like a new person. I cannot believe how badly that little pill made me feel. I read the arimidex takes about 4 months to get out of your system, I can't believe how much better I already feel. Now if I can continue to have good mamos, and test results I believe it was worth the pain. I am working on losing the weight. So hang in there if you can bear the side effects arimidex might be worth taking. F 57 5 years 8/29/2009

1 Breast Cancer stage 2 One of the side effects I experienced was Adhesive Capsulitis..Frozen Shoulder. An Orthopedist said that never happens in women my age. An Oncologist told me I was the 4th patient she had with this Arimidex caused condition. Info on that condition was not mentioned anywhere, although I researched extensively prior to taking the drug . I also suffered from drying of mucus membranes & thought I had a UTI. Arimidex caused microscopic blood in my urine, I had severe muscle & bone pain. Made it difficult to stand. Loss of appetite, insomnia and an all around disintigration of my quality of life. Who knows what other damage done by Arimidex the pharmeceutical company omitted from their reports. Poisonous stuff. I stopped the Arimidex after 2 months. Women weighing less than 110 pounds have more severe side effects to Arimidex and many other medications. During Surgery, Chemo & Radiation I used & continue to use supportive & Complementary Alternative remedies. I use Weleda's Iscador..an anti cancer subcutaneous injection that has been used in Europe for over 70 years and other homeopathic, herbal and essential oils, all with the Oncologists knowledge & approval. My diet is restrictive..only organic foods and I avoid a long list of foods. I eat cruciferous vegetables daily & take a cauliflower extract daily along with other vitamins & supplements in an effort to change my estrogen ratio. I think that Arimidex, Famara, Tamoxifen etc MIGHT diminish the recurrence of breast cancer, causing who knows what else? what of the short & long term damage it causes.Since I stopped taking Arimidex I feel great and I look really well! I wouldn't take again it if you paid me. F 67 2 months 8/29/2009
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1 BC Stage 1 Clear Nodes Severe joint pain in feet. Can hardly walk sometimes - especially in the morning. Hot flashes, night sweats, high blood pressure, insomnia, irritable, numbness of toes. Totally miserable! I hate the way I feel taking this drug. I try to stay positive but the side effects are taking their toll. I have an active 9 year old and can’t even enjoy doing the basics because of the joint stiffness/pain. I’m strongly leaning towards stop taking the drug and go for a good quality of life. I’m taking just about every vitamin out there. And the reality of all this is you still have a chance of reoccurrence after taking it for 5 years and living in misery. F 49 2 years 8/28/2009
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1 B/C Stage 1, clear nodes Swelling, severe joint pain in feet, fingers, weight gain, short term memory loss, hot flashes, can not sleep, heat sensitive, shortness of breath, mood swings. I just don't know about this drug. I hate my life the way it is now. I want to be me again. M 51 1 years 8/26/2009

1 It was prescribed for breast cancer I read extensively on the web about all the horrible side effects this med can cause, and declined it when my oncologist insisted that I take it. A hungry person may accept moldy bread if that is all that is available; it is a shame and abomination that this kind of med is all that doctors can offer to women to prevent cancer recurrence. Living without estrogen is a nightmare. I already have tiny bones, a metal hip, and arthritis in my knee and hands. I know that bone loss occurs immediately when starting this drug, and I don't want to take bisphosphonates, which are prescribed for bone loss. Also, it is difficult to use my hands after chemo because of trigger fingers, etc., and I didn't want to add to my misery with more joint pain. F 69 0 days 8/26/2009

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## Ashop

> What is the best A.I to run during 10 week cycle of Test-E?? My cycle looks like this:-
> 
> Week 1-10: 500 mg of Test E (2 shots)
> Week 3-10: HCG 500I.U (2 shots)
> Week 12-14: 40mg nolva ed
> Week 14-16: 20mg Nolva ed
> 
> I believe that A.I is essential if using HCG during cycle. I have at hand exemestane 25mg tablets which are manufactured by a certain underground research lab, and I dont like the look of them and cant have the gear checked or name the company which sucks 
> 
> What is the best A.I to run during cycle and how will it hinder my gains???


Arimidex always worked well for me in cases like this.

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## Swifto

> What I am not a fan of Swifto is taking anti-es when they are not neccesary and this happens all too often IMO. Anti-estrogens such as arimidex cause joint pain for many and that's my biggest concern. People need to realize these are very powerful drugs that were designed for cancer patients not bodybuilders. They can ruin your joints permanetly! Heres a link you will want to read through. Look at how many are in crippling pain from either using arimidex or having used arimidex. SCARY STUFF! http://www.askapatient.com/viewratin...&name=ARIMIDEX
> 
> Some people can take only 1 drop of arimidex and hurt like crazy in their joints (even while using deca .) Drugs like arimidex will put you at a higher risk for clogged arteries by lowering good cholesterol. You need estrogen to help cholesterol levels. The aromatization of testosterone to estradiol helps prevent the negative effects of androgens on serum lipids. In one study 300 mgs of test enanthate was used for 20 weeks with no anti-es. The testosterone showed only a 12% decrease in HDL but when anti-es were introdcued with 300 mgs of test for 20 weeks, the reduction in HDL increased to 25% (thats double!) 
> 
> Estrogen can increase androgen receptor binding, increase androgen receptors, keep serotonin levels in check-hence allowing for better sleep, more energy, improved mood, and a better sex drive. Estrogen increases GH/IGF-1 and improves glucose utilization. This glucose aid the pentose phosphate pathway which helps dictate the speed muscle tissue will be repaired. 
> 
> It's no secret that the best mass building steroids are aloo the ones that convert to estrogen. The extra water retention from estrogen allows you to lift more-hence an increase in size! Use too many anti-es and you might as well take a non-aromatizing steroid like winstrol . 
> 
> People who notice signs of gyno or who know from past experiences they are prone to gyno should indeed use a small amount of anti-es to help with that particular problem but for those who do not have this issue, then I think it's best to not use anti-es so that maximum gains in tissue can ocurr without having to deal with all the side effects of these powerful anti-cancer drugs!
> ...


The sides you speak of become apparent when estrogen levels are very low. If there kept within normal ranges using AI's (with careful E management) these sides will not be evident.

I'm not saying destroy estrogen, I'm aware of its benifits in normal ranges, but other sides become evident when its in suprephysiological ranges, such as an increased risk of CHD and cancer. Estrogen should never be in high levels in males, there is no benifit at all. It needs to be controlled, but not eliminated.

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## Ronnie Rowland

> The sides you speak of become apparent when estrogen levels are very low. If there kept within normal ranges using AI's (with careful E management) these sides will not be evident.
> 
> I'm not saying destroy estrogen, I'm aware of its benifits in normal ranges, but other sides become evident when its in suprephysiological ranges, such as an increased risk of CHD and cancer. Estrogen should never be in high levels in males, there is no benifit at all. It needs to be controlled, but not eliminated.


I fully understand what you are saying. I've had this discussion with many throughout the years. Determining precisely where your estrogen levels reside is pretty much impossible unless you get a blood test done. Also, I do not think it's always an increase in estrogen levels that cause the problem. When estrogen goes up so does test levels and this can balance things out. 

One does not have to have low levels of estrogen to experience joint pain from using arimidex . It's simply a side effect of the drug iself! Why is it that some people can take one measly drop of arimidex per day while using 1-2 grams of test per week and experience joint pain? You see where I am coming from? 


About 20 percent of the people at my gym need to run anti-es for estrogen control. They get really bad gyno without them and this goes for pro-hormones as well. Coem to thin of it thier gyno never leaves even when using anti-es. Therefore, I feel surgery is the best way to eliminate this problem for good. The other 80% has no problems whatsoever regardless of how much they are using or what they are taking. That's why I am saying to not use anti-es unless they are absolutely needed. Why take another drug that has known side effects if it's not needed? Everyone has different genetics and I think we must be careful that we do not put everyone in the same category. I'm willing to bet that many have been persuaded in to taking anti-es when they never needed them. That's all I am saying.

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## Swifto

> I fully understand what you are saying. I've had this discussion with many throughout the years. Determining precisely where your estrogen levels reside is pretty much impossible unless you get a blood test done. Also, I do not think it's always an increase in estrogen levels that cause the problem. When estrogen goes up so does test levels and this can balance things out. 
> 
> *One does not have to have low levels of estrogen to experience joint pain from using arimidex. It's simply a side effect of the drug iself! Why is it that some people can take one measly drop of arimidex per day while using 1-2 grams of test per week and experience joint pain? You see where I am coming from?* 
> 
> About 20 percent of the people at my gym need to run anti-es for estrogen control. They get really bad gyno without them and this goes for pro-hormones as well. Coem to thin of it thier gyno never leaves even when using anti-es. Therefore, I feel surgery is the best way to eliminate this problem for good. The other 80% has no problems whatsoever regardless of how much they are using or what they are taking. That's why I am saying to not use anti-es unless they are absolutely needed. Why take another drug that has known side effects if it's not needed? Everyone has different genetics and I think we must be careful that we do not put everyone in the same category. I'm willing to bet that many have been persuaded in to taking anti-es when they never needed them. That's all I am saying.


I've never heard of this before regarding Arimidex . What happend when they tried other AI's? Such as Aromasin ?

I got a small case of gyno when I cycled, I'm actually on Letro now to try to reverse it, but I'm not counting on it. Although estrogen ablation can cause breast tissue apoptosis and regression, so we will see.

Some dont need estrogen management, there the lucky ones IMHO. DHT-derivatives can also be utilised to control E and I have personal friends that claim to do this. 

I'm just of the opinoin that the sides are less when estrogen is low, than when its in suprephysiological levels. If one experiences the sides you state, lower the dose, or use another AI, a DHT or something that inhibits aromotase. 

I got both gyno and acne (estrogen is definitely a contributer + scars) from high levels of estrogen and dont want someone else to do the same.

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## Mooseman33

where u using any A.I when u got gyno ?

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## Swifto

> where u using any A.I when u got gyno ?


I was using Proviron at 25-50mg/ED. Which is why I think Proviron used for estrogenic control is useless...For me anyway.

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## Ronnie Rowland

> I've never heard of this before regarding Arimidex . What happend when they tried other AI's? Such as Aromasin ?
> 
> I got a small case of gyno when I cycled, I'm actually on Letro now to try to reverse it, but I'm not counting on it. Although estrogen ablation can cause breast tissue apoptosis and regression, so we will see.
> 
> Some dont need estrogen management, there the lucky ones IMHO. DHT-derivatives can also be utilised to control E and I have personal friends that claim to do this. 
> 
> I'm just of the opinoin that the sides are less when estrogen is low, than when its in suprephysiological levels. If one experiences the sides you state, lower the dose, or use another AI, a DHT or something that inhibits aromotase. 
> 
> I got both gyno and acne (estrogen is definitely a contributer + scars) from high levels of estrogen and dont want someone else to do the same.


I understand and I am just trying to get people to think before they take another drug they may not need. I do not want to see someone permanetly ruin their joints. Once the joints get dried out and destroyed lifting becomes a real chore. Quite often side effects experienced during a cycle is from the ancillary drugs like anti-es instead of the anabolics. This can dishearten some people and they come off of steroids , only to pull it's results down and others with it. 

Aromasin and even letro seems to be just as about as bad in regards to joint pain and even worse concerning fatique and depression. Using DHT derivatives seems to work much better for some IMO while others do not even need them. It use to be that most people were lucky in not getting gyno once they adjusted to teh drugs but now it seems everyone is so paranoid about getting gyno (even while using low dosages) it has become a part of their cyle whether its needed or not.

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## jeffefrijoles

Ronnie, do you advocate then using perhaps a small amount of Nolva for those of us who are gyno prone, instead of trying to control aromatase with an AI. Block the breast receptor sites, while allowing estrogen to accumalate, helping gains.

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## art

> I was using Proviron at 25-50mg/ED. Which is why I think Proviron used for estrogenic control is useless...For me anyway.


I think for a lot of people it's useless too. 
It's a DHT derivat and it is androgenic , that's why estrogen and SHBG binds to it. But it's too weak for prevention sides of high estrogen levels.

I had the same experience with it. Btw, the dose of T was low (TRT).

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## tballz

> What is the best A.I to run during 10 week cycle of Test-E?? My cycle looks like this:-
> 
> Week 1-10: 500 mg of Test E (2 shots)
> Week 3-10: HCG 500I.U (2 shots)
> Week 12-14: 40mg nolva ed
> Week 14-16: 20mg Nolva ed
> 
> I believe that A.I is essential if using HCG during cycle. I have at hand exemestane 25mg tablets which are manufactured by a certain underground research lab, and I dont like the look of them and cant have the gear checked or name the company which sucks 
> 
> What is the best A.I to run during cycle and how will it hinder my gains???


Why would you use hcg during cycle? That's a total waste. Your hpt is shut down and you are still running test. You need to run it after your cycle.

exemestane, arimidex , letrozole are all very good but don't go crazy with it some estrogen is need to build muscle tissue.

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## art

> You need to run it after your cycle.


Not after but the last week of cycle. If you will run it after cycle it could interfere restoring HPTA.

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## Swifto

> Why would you use hcg during cycle? That's a total waste. Your hpt is shut down and you are still running test. You need to run it after your cycle.
> 
> exemestane, arimidex, letrozole are all very good but don't go crazy with it some estrogen is need to build muscle tissue.


Run a search for me...

"HCG - How important is it?"

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## gymnerd

> I've never heard of this before regarding Arimidex . *What happend when they tried other AI's? Such as Aromasin?*
> I got a small case of gyno when I cycled, I'm actually on Letro now to try to reverse it, but I'm not counting on it. Although estrogen ablation can cause breast tissue apoptosis and regression, so we will see.
> 
> Some dont need estrogen management, there the lucky ones IMHO. DHT-derivatives can also be utilised to control E and I have personal friends that claim to do this. 
> 
> I'm just of the opinoin that the sides are less when estrogen is low, than when its in suprephysiological levels. If one experiences the sides you state, lower the dose, or use another AI, a DHT or something that inhibits aromotase. 
> 
> I got both gyno and acne (estrogen is definitely a contributer + scars) from high levels of estrogen and dont want someone else to do the same.




Hey bro everyone over at PM swears by aromasin that it doesn't hurt the joints and isn't as hard on lipids IDK personally but I did get some joint pain with adex at .5mg eod so I am going to give aromasin a try this time see how it compares.

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## nombie

> Why would you use hcg during cycle? That's a total waste. Your hpt is shut down and you are still running test. You need to run it after your cycle.
> 
> exemestane, arimidex, letrozole are all very good but don't go crazy with it some estrogen is need to build muscle tissue.



Bump

Doesnt running small amounts of HCG during cycle (500I.U in 2 doses per week) keep you from shutting down? the only reason im asking about the A.I is because I plan on running HCG during cycle to make recovery easier

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