# GENERAL FORUM > IN THE NEWS >  Sen. Clinton calls for equal federal benefits for gay couples

## Prada

http://pageoneq.com/news/2008/Sen._C..._cou_0403.html

Clinton says she will defend gay rights

Clinton Says She Will Eliminate Disparities for Same-Sex Couples in Federal Law

NEDRA PICKLER
AP News

Apr 03, 2008 16:55 EST

Democratic Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said she would defend gay rights as president and eliminate disparities for same-sex couples in federal law, including immigration and tax policy.

Clinton said states such as New Jersey and Massachusetts are extending rights to gay couples "and the federal government should recognize that and should extend the same access to federal benefits across the board. I will very much work to achieve that."

Clinton's comments came in an interview with the Philadelphia Gay News that was posted on its Web site Thursday.

Clinton said she and her husband have many gay friends that they socialize with when they get the chance. "I've got friends, literally, around the country that I'm close to. It's part of my life," she said.

She said that when they ask her why they can't get married, she tells them marriage is a state law. She said that fact helped defeat a constitutional amendment to prohibit same-sex weddings that she said would "enshrine discrimination in the Constitution."

"States are really beginning seriously to deal with the whole range of options, including marriage, both under their own state constitutions and under the legislative approach," she said. "I anticipate that there will be a very concerted amount of effort in the next couple of years that will move this important issue forward and different states will take different approaches as they did with marriage over many years and you will see an evolution over time."

Clinton said she opposes a measure that would ban gay marriage in Pennsylvania.

"I would be very distressed if Pennsylvania were to adopt that kind of mean-spirited referendum and I hope it won't happen," she said.

Clinton's Democratic rival Barack Obama and Republican John McCain declined the newspaper's invitation for an interview. The paper criticized Obama and highlighted his refusal to talk by leaving a blank space on the front page where his interview would have appeared.

Clinton also said she would:

_ Eliminate her husband's policy of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" that prevents gays from serving openly in the military. Asked if she could do so by a signing order connected to a military appropriations bill, Clinton said she didn't think that is possible but she would look into it and do it if it were legal.

_ Be "very strongly outspoken" against foreign governments that execute gays and use financial assistance and other leverage to prevent the killings.

_ Support federal domestic partner legislation to extend rights to all same-sex couples.

_ Support services for gay youth, including guidance for schools about the discrimination they face.

_ Continue to support gay pride celebrations, to the extent that security would allow. "I don't think the Secret Service let Bill walk in a parade when he became president," she said.

----------


## Amorphic

while its always a good idea to push for bills that allow for equal rights between blacks and whites, homosexuals and heterosexuals etc, the real challenge is changing society's negative attitudes towards these minority groups.

as we've seen with race, on paper and the law they are just as equal, but society has still yet to catch up to the standard that has been set. this is no different i think.

----------


## Dangercat00

I think this is one of those situations where Hillary just wants to get a higher vote among homosexuals. Obviously Obama supports the same thing, she just wants the media to look at her and say "Wow, what a compassionate American! Gay people should definitely vote for her!" When it comes down to it, like Amorphic said, its a societal issue more than anything else.

----------


## intensityfreak

> while its always a good idea to push for bills that allow for equal rights between blacks and whites, homosexuals and heterosexuals etc, the real challenge is changing society's negative attitudes towards these minority groups.
> 
> as we've seen with race, on paper and the law they are just as equal, but society has still yet to catch up to the standard that has been set. this is no different i think.


black and white isn't a sin against god. being homo is. screw that hillary has diffinatly lost my vote for is.

----------


## thegodfather

> black and white isn't a sin against god. being homo is. screw that hillary has diffinatly lost my vote for is.


Keep your right wing close minded religious fundamentalist opinions to yourself. There are several well respected homosexual members on this message board. You have no right to tell other people how to live or to try and impose your 5,000 year old ideology onto other people through legislation. People like you, make me sick.

----------


## Act of God

In before the Carlos lock!

The Federal Government shouldn't be giving benefits to any couples, but if they are...might as well be fair to everyone.

----------


## shifty_git

> while its always a good idea to push for bills that allow for equal rights between blacks and whites, homosexuals and heterosexuals etc, the real challenge is changing society's negative attitudes towards these minority groups.
> 
> as we've seen with race, on paper and the law they are just as equal, but society has still yet to catch up to the standard that has been set. this is no different i think.





> Keep your right wing close minded religious fundamentalist opinions to yourself. There are several well respected homosexual members on this message board. You have no right to tell other people how to live or to try and impose your 5,000 year old ideology onto other people through legislation. People like you, make me sick.


Both good posts.

My only input on this one is the politicians say ANYTHING to get those few more votes right b4 an election.

Tony Blair here in the UK is a prime example.
(No new tax's or tax's increases was his promise.. over 80 different tax increases later its obvious it was a lie to get votes)

----------


## Prada

Everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as it is expressed in a mature and non-derogatory way. Keep it civil guys. 

Dangercat, at the same time she might lose a lot of the somewhat conservative votes that jumped ship or that had an interest in her. They might view this stance to be against religious values and so on.

----------


## kfrost06

> Everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as it is expressed in a mature and non-derogatory way. Keep it civil guys. 
> 
> Dangercat, at the same time she might lose a lot of the somewhat conservative votes that jumped ship or that had an interest in her. They might view this stance to be against religious values and so on.


very good point Prada. No way are we all going to agree on issues but we should be able to disagree in a civil manner. Save the mud slinging for the politicians, they are very good at it.

----------


## intensityfreak

> Keep your right wing close minded religious fundamentalist opinions to yourself. There are several well respected homosexual members on this message board. You have no right to tell other people how to live or to try and impose your 5,000 year old ideology onto other people through legislation. People like you, make me sick.


yea your right i dont have the right to tell poeple how to live, but the bible does. i think its funny how the only people that thinks its right gays. i have a gay friend and i talk to him and he knows its against god and he says he cant help who he loves and i feel for him.im not against gays at all. i love every one.im a real good guy i dont hate anyone. just think that if i support hillary for this would be trying to help a cause that god doesn't allow. dud i want you to put your hand on the bible and tell me that you truly beleive being gay is perfectly okay.
good made adam and eve to be togetor not adam and adam. not closed minded at all eithor just cant see homo as being in the vision of god. what good comes from it, aids, hiv let me know what good does it do for the world.

----------


## intensityfreak

> Both good posts.
> 
> My only input on this one is the politicians say ANYTHING to get those few more votes right b4 an election.
> 
> Tony Blair here in the UK is a prime example.
> (No new tax's or tax's increases was his promise.. over 80 different tax increases later its obvious it was a lie to get votes)


if that was the case Hillary lost votes. their is so many religious groups out protesting right now against Hillary for this. i could be wrong about this but i read that hillary lost 13% of her women votes because of the religious views.

----------


## Kärnfysikern

> *yea your right i dont have the right to tell poeple how to live, but the bible does.* i think its funny how the only people that thinks its right gays. i have a gay friend and i talk to him and he knows its against god and he says he cant help who he loves and i feel for him.im not against gays at all. i love every one.im a real good guy i dont hate anyone. just think that if i support hillary for this would be trying to help a cause that god doesn't allow. dud i want you to put your hand on the bible and tell me that you truly beleive being gay is perfectly okay.
> good made adam and eve to be togetor not adam and adam. not closed minded at all eithor just cant see homo as being in the vision of god. what good comes from it, aids, hiv let me know what good does it do for the world.


The bible doesnt have a right to tell anyone how to live their life. Its up to everyone if they want to belive in that particular book, but it doesnt give anyone beliving in it the right to push those oppinion on others.

----------


## BgMc31

For all the bible-thumpers that justify their intolerance and support of discrimination by invoking gods name...1. How does homosexuality effect YOU directly? 2. If you are going to follow that couple passages in the bible literally, how come you don't follow EVERYTHING in the book, literally (hypocrites)? 3. Everyone doesn't believe in your god or his teachings that is why we have freedom of religion. You cannot impose your beliefs on me if I don't subscribe to those beliefs. 4. Being homosexual is perfectly ok with me and I'll put my hand on anyone's holy book and testify to that. I would steer clear from anyone religion that wants you to love and accept everyone but then turn around and put stipulations on that love (again hypocrisy at its finest). 

And no I'm not gay. I vehemently oppose any and all forms of discrimination. Just like I'll fight for a klansman's right to free speech, no matter how hateful, I'll will fight for anyone's right for equal protection and treatment under the law. Its about time people stood up for what this country said it was founded on but has never lived up to!

----------


## intensityfreak

[QUOTE=BgMc31;3909743]For all the bible-thumpers that justify their intolerance and support of discrimination by invoking gods name...1. How does homosexuality effect YOU directly? 2. If you are going to follow that couple passages in the bible literally, how come you don't follow EVERYTHING in the book, literally (hypocrites)? 3. Everyone doesn't believe in your god or his teachings that is why we have freedom of religion. You cannot impose your beliefs on me if I don't subscribe to those beliefs. 4. Being homosexual is perfectly ok with me and I'll put my hand on anyone's holy book and testify to that. I would steer clear from anyone religion that wants you to love and accept everyone but then turn around and put stipulations on that love (again hypocrisy at its finest). 

And no I'm not gay. I vehemently oppose any and all forms of discrimination. Just like I'll fight for a klansman's right to free speech, no matter how hateful, I'll will fight for anyone's right for equal protection and treatment under the law. Its about time people stood up for what this country said it was founded on but has never lived up to![/QUOTE

its funny, you would stand up for a klansman's rights even though they are one of the biggest groups that promote discrimination and violence witch you claim you hate. thats rediculous. personally i dont hate anyone not even racist people. but when they act on violence i would put a gun to thier head and pull the trigger. but gays i have no ploblem whit, they are humans with feeling also as humans i just dont agree with what they do. and as for you can you find me any book of any religion that says its okay to be gay. thanks

----------


## Amorphic

> its funny, you would stand up for a klansman's rights even though they are one of the biggest groups that promote discrimination and violence witch you claim you hate. thats rediculous. personally i dont hate anyone not even racist people. but when they act on violence i would put a gun to thier head and pull the trigger. but gays i have no ploblem whit, they are humans with feeling also as humans i just dont agree with what they do. and as for you can you find me any book of any religion that says its okay to be gay. thanks


find me some evidence that your religion is true and then you'll have an argument.

----------


## Kärnfysikern

> its funny, you would stand up for a klansman's rights even though they are one of the biggest groups that promote discrimination and violence witch you claim you hate. thats rediculous. personally i dont hate anyone not even racist people. but when they act on violence i would put a gun to thier head and pull the trigger. but gays i have no ploblem whit, they are humans with feeling also as humans i just dont agree with what they do. *and as for you can you find me any book of any religion that says its okay to be gay.* thanks



Why does that even matter? :Shrug:

----------


## Red Ketchup

> yea your right i dont have the right to tell poeple how to live, but the bible does.


What the hell have you been smoking skippy?

Since when does a ficticious story book (which you for some reason CHOOSE to believe as "fact") have any rights to tell people how to live their lives?

Last I heard in the USA and in most civilised countries, the bible is not law. It holds no legal standing in any courts. As a matter of fact, in the US the *separation* of church and state is even legislated!

And seeing the vitriolic intolerance of your fellow men you display here, it's pretty obvious that the messages of tolerance, forgiveness and love contained in the Good Book are pretty well wasted on you...

Red

----------


## BgMc31

[QUOTE=intensityfreak;3909942]


> For all the bible-thumpers that justify their intolerance and support of discrimination by invoking gods name...1. How does homosexuality effect YOU directly? 2. If you are going to follow that couple passages in the bible literally, how come you don't follow EVERYTHING in the book, literally (hypocrites)? 3. Everyone doesn't believe in your god or his teachings that is why we have freedom of religion. You cannot impose your beliefs on me if I don't subscribe to those beliefs. 4. Being homosexual is perfectly ok with me and I'll put my hand on anyone's holy book and testify to that. I would steer clear from anyone religion that wants you to love and accept everyone but then turn around and put stipulations on that love (again hypocrisy at its finest). 
> 
> And no I'm not gay. I vehemently oppose any and all forms of discrimination. Just like I'll fight for a klansman's right to free speech, no matter how hateful, I'll will fight for anyone's right for equal protection and treatment under the law. Its about time people stood up for what this country said it was founded on but has never lived up to![/QUOTE
> 
> its funny, you would stand up for a klansman's rights even though they are one of the biggest groups that promote discrimination and violence witch you claim you hate. thats rediculous. personally i dont hate anyone not even racist people. but when they act on violence i would put a gun to thier head and pull the trigger. but gays i have no ploblem whit, they are humans with feeling also as humans i just dont agree with what they do. and as for you can you find me any book of any religion that says its okay to be gay. thanks


Not only ignorant, obviously you have no reading comprehension skills as well. 1st, I didn't say I support the Klans violent actions, I said I support their right to say what they want because I believe in this country's freedom of speech
2nd, I never claimed any holy book supported homosexuality. I DID say it doesn't matter if any or all of them said it because it has zero affect on society. 

So in order for anyone to justify not allowing a group of people equal right, you must prove that giving those people equal rights has a negative impact on society and diminishes the greater good. I eagerly await your rebuttal...

----------


## Tock

> black and white isn't a sin against god. being homo is.


Maybe it's a sin against _your_ god.
It isn't against mine.

Let me take this opportunity to call your god a dumb  :1hifu:  f---. And if your god doesn't like it, your god can strike me dead in my sleep tonight.

I'll talk to ya tomorrow . . .

----------


## Tock

Originally Posted by *intensityfreak*  
_black and white isn't a sin against god. being homo is. screw that hillary has diffinatly lost my vote for is._




> Keep your right wing close minded religious fundamentalist opinions to yourself. There are several well respected homosexual members on this message board. You have no right to tell other people how to live or to try and impose your 5,000 year old ideology onto other people through legislation. People like you, make me sick.


Intensityfreak is fine -- I'll bet he's a pretty good guy at heart. It's his god that's screwed up.

----------


## shifty_git

> Maybe it's a sin against _your_ god.
> It isn't against mine.
> 
> Let me take this opportunity to call your god a dumb  f---. And if your god doesn't like it, your god can strike me dead in my sleep tonight.
> 
> *I'll talk to ya tomorrow . . .*


Unless his god strikes u down of course! lol

----------


## Tock

> i think its funny how _the only people_ that thinks its right gays.


You're kidding, right?







> i have a gay friend and i talk to him and he knows its against god and he says he cant help who he loves and i feel for him.im not against gays at all.


Your friend would benefit greatly from a more accurate understanding of the Bible. 
Turn him on to this website:

http://www.mccchurch.org/AM/Template...&ContentID=629

*Homosexuality: Not a Sin, Not a Sickness*

*by Rev. Elder Don Eastman*

_A growing number of biblical and theological scholars now recognize that Scripture does not condemn loving, responsible homosexual relationships. Therefore, gay men and lesbians should be accepted - just as they are-in Christian churches, and homosexual relationships should be_ _celebrated and affirmed!
~_ Rev. Elder Don Eastman, _Homosexuality: Not a Sin, Not a Sickness_
A classic essay on homosexuality in the Bible, Rev. Elder Eastman's concise and affirming wisdom is a staple for anyone desiring deeper understanding of what the Bible really says. Originally released in 1990, this resource has been re-edited and re-released for the 2005 audience. 

*Homosexuality; Not A Sin, Not A Sickness*
*by Rev. Elder Don Eastman*
*©Copyright 1990*

----------


## intensityfreak

[QUOTE=BgMc31;3910144]


> Not only ignorant, obviously you have no reading comprehension skills as well. 1st, I didn't say I support the Klans violent actions, I said I support their right to say what they want because I believe in this country's freedom of speech
> 2nd, I never claimed any holy book supported homosexuality. I DID say it doesn't matter if any or all of them said it because it has zero affect on society. 
> 
> So in order for anyone to justify not allowing a group of people equal right, you must prove that giving those people equal rights has a negative impact on society and diminishes the greater good. I eagerly await your rebuttal...


no dummy, i know what you said. you would support the klans freedom of speech not thier violence. but if your so smart witch you think you are you would no that when they do speak they are promoting hatred and violence. "unless you think there telling us to love everybody" 
and when you say" it doesn't matter if the holy book says it or not cause it has zero affect on society, by you saying that basically your saying FU * K the bible. i know you dont think thats what you said but go back and read it again and tell me what your really sayin.

last thing to everybody, you say my god is messed up, but please please please go out and find me a god or religion thats says it okay to have same sex marriage or same sex period. please do that and let me know. yea i do know of one religion that thinks it allowed and those are the same poeple who are banging little boys in the ass so i have a hard time trusting them.

----------


## intensityfreak

sssorry made too

----------


## intensityfreak

> You're kidding, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your friend would benefit greatly from a more accurate understanding of the Bible. 
> Turn him on to this website:
> ...



thats the biggest load of crap i've ever heard. it's almost funny to me that poeple always seem to find a deeper understanding of the bible to fit their needs.

also poeple no way shape or form do i hate or even dislike gays. i have stood up for them so many times when they were getting bashed. also i am not on here trying to argue if i think gay is right or wrong i am arguing the fact if the bible says its right or wrong. personally i could care less if gays wanted to get married and what not.thats all. i care for everyone that doesn't promote hatred towards another. like the klan. i would personally shoot every last one of them in the head. cause they do have a negative affect on society.

----------


## Amorphic

> thats the biggest load of crap i've ever heard. it's almost funny to me that poeple always seem to find a deeper understanding of the bible to fit their needs.
> 
> also poeple no way shape or form do i hate or even dislike gays. i have stood up for them so many times when they were getting bashed. also i am not on here trying to argue if i think gay is right or wrong i am arguing the fact if the bible says its right or wrong. personally i could care less if gays wanted to get married and what not.thats all. i care for everyone that doesn't promote hatred towards another. like the klan. i would personally shoot every last one of them in the head. cause they do have a negative affect on society.


i'm still waiting for you to prove that the contents of the bible hold any merit. you cant even prove the religion you believe in is even remotely based on any kind of fact or reality....the sad reality being that the bible is a bunch of bs.

let me know when you figure things out so that your argument about homosexuality being religiously wrong can hold some merit.

----------


## pump.joe

> For all the bible-thumpers that justify their intolerance and support of discrimination by invoking gods name...1. How does homosexuality effect YOU directly? 2. If you are going to follow that couple passages in the bible literally, how come you don't follow EVERYTHING in the book, literally (hypocrites)? 3. Everyone doesn't believe in your god or his teachings that is why we have freedom of religion. You cannot impose your beliefs on me if I don't subscribe to those beliefs. 4. Being homosexual is perfectly ok with me and I'll put my hand on anyone's holy book and testify to that. I would steer clear from anyone religion that wants you to love and accept everyone but then turn around and put stipulations on that love (again hypocrisy at its finest). 
> 
> And no I'm not gay. I vehemently oppose any and all forms of discrimination.


Right on, bro.  :Thumps Up:

----------


## shifty_git

^^^^ agree, was a great post.

We are all human, and how we treat others is how we should be judged, not selective love.

----------


## BgMc31

[QUOTE=intensityfreak;3910366]


> no dummy, i know what you said. you would support the klans freedom of speech not thier violence. but if your so smart witch you think you are you would no that when they do speak they are promoting hatred and violence. "unless you think there telling us to love everybody" 
> and when you say" it doesn't matter if the holy book says it or not cause it has zero affect on society, by you saying that basically your saying FU * K the bible. i know you dont think thats what you said but go back and read it again and tell me what your really sayin.
> 
> last thing to everybody, you say my god is messed up, but please please please go out and find me a god or religion thats says it okay to have same sex marriage or same sex period. please do that and let me know. yea i do know of one religion that thinks it allowed and those are the same poeple who are banging little boys in the ass so i have a hard time trusting them.


you just proved your ignorance. There is a difference between pedophilia and homosexuality. 

I wasn't debating that there is a religion that supports homosexuality. The question I asked you is what does it matter? I and three others on here have noted the seperation between church and state. And you have still yet to answer the question of what negative impact does homosexuality have on society at large? You base your whole argument on a book written by men over 2000yrs ago? C'mon dude, really?

----------


## Prada

> very good point Prada. No way are we all going to agree on issues but we should be able to disagree in a civil manner. Save the mud slinging for the politicians, they are very good at it.


Agreed.  :Thumps Up: 

Its really sad that one cant have a mature debate on here. There is always a few individuals that have to commence name calling and insulting. Which leads to threads being locked. Id rather see them not be locked but the members be suspended. Why should others have to pay for the immaturity of a select few?

This thread will surely get locked but Id rather see the 2-3 individuals destroying it be suspended or banned. If you are not mature enough to respect the opinions of others you surely shouldn ot be on an AAS board.

----------


## Amorphic

> Agreed. 
> 
> Its really sad that one cant have a mature debate on here. There is always a few individuals that have to commence name calling and insulting. Which leads to threads being locked. Id rather see them not be locked but the members be suspended. Why should others have to pay for the immaturity of a select few?
> 
> This thread will surely get locked but Id rather see the 2-3 individuals destroying it be suspended or banned. If you are not mature enough to respect the opinions of others you surely shouldn ot be on an AAS board.


so very true.

----------


## kfrost06

> Agreed. 
> 
> Its really sad that one cant have a mature debate on here. There is always a few individuals that have to commence name calling and insulting. Which leads to threads being locked. Id rather see them not be locked but the members be suspended. Why should others have to pay for the immaturity of a select few?
> 
> This thread will surely get locked but Id rather see the 2-3 individuals destroying it be suspended or banned. If you are not mature enough to respect the opinions of others you surely shouldn ot be on an AAS board.


even worse is when you find yourself getting drawn into it and then  :0icon Pissedoff: !! You come back the next day and read your post and  :What?:  what was I thinking  :Shrug:  I try to just avoid those threads now and avoid posting when on halotestin . I do soo love discussing the current hot topics and it's more fun to do so with someone that has an opposing point of view but like you said a few can ruin it. To be honest I have been that one sometimes :Evil2:  but the name calling is something that I just don't agree with, argue the topic not the person. With that said, see you F'n losers tomorrow

----------


## intensityfreak

[QUOTE=BgMc31;3910485]


> you just proved your ignorance. There is a difference between pedophilia and homosexuality. 
> 
> I wasn't debating that there is a religion that supports homosexuality. The question I asked you is what does it matter? I and three others on here have noted the seperation between church and state. And you have still yet to answer the question of what negative impact does homosexuality have on society at large? You base your whole argument on a book written by men over 2000yrs ago? C'mon dude, really?


e 

dud i dont know where your getting this crap from or whats going through your brain and stop saying the same thing cause you dont have an explanation. im going to clear this up for the last time and answer everyones questions.

1) *what negative impact does it have on the society?*
dang near none, only the spread of a virus that kills over a million people a year and that has no cure, it only have yet to reach 2 million, so no big deal about that. also would you think that thier is more positives or negatives out of homosexuality


2) what does it matter?[/U][/B]
if they get equal rights it really doesn't matter to me personaly at all cause i dont care and i do think that all men should be equal, but for those in America that knows the same god that i do witch is more than 3/4 of the US population would view it as being wrong to vote for someone who supports such a thing that thier god says is wrong. But personally if i was a atheist it wouldn't matter at all i would still vote for hillary.
notice the difference i said that i think poeple should be equal but thats not enough for me to go against what i was raised in to beliving.

3*) Can i prove that anything in the bible is true?
* well im not even gonna tell you how i know form a bible contex so the only way that i know is this wierd word that eveyone talks about, uh yea "FAITH" example of faith for you athiest. have you ever knew something that you really didn't know for me its football, somehow i just knew my team would win the natinals dont know how but i knew and at the end it did happend. maybe not a good example but im getting tired.

just some words of my thoughts: how can you believe nothing, i've fought in wars and seen what poeple do to each other, i belive because i know thier is something better out there than all this. the world will end, then what? i have seen gays in the millary get the shit kicked out of them from what they do. yea it wrong but nothing is going to change that, no equal rights or laws to help them be safe. nothing they are always going to be in danger. we would rather see two 400lbs wemon kissing in public and they would be safe. but let two guys do it. thier lucky if they make it home. thier is and will never be a place in society for gays, they will always be looked at as outcast's and will always be in danger. period thats just the way it is. i could be wrong but i think thats how it is. i cant picture a society were woman&man, woman&woman or man&man can walk around outside and kiss and hold hands without the feeling of danger or acceptance.
also i am not against gays or dislike them at all and if you dont agree no need to name drop and diss, also sorry if i afended anyone. well i guess back to the steroids then huh.lol

----------


## BgMc31

[QUOTE=intensityfreak;3910699]


> e 
> 
> dud i dont know where your getting this crap from or whats going through your brain and stop saying the same thing cause you dont have an explanation. im going to clear this up for the last time and answer everyones questions.
> 
> 1) *what negative impact does it have on the society?*
> dang near none, only the spread of a virus that kills over a million people a year and that has no cure, it only have yet to reach 2 million, so no big deal about that. also would you think that thier is more positives or negatives out of homosexuality
> 
> 
> 2) what does it matter?[/U][/B]
> ...


Are you really that dense? I've stated my arguments and back them up. You either lack the ability to comprehend or simply blind. And you further proved your ignorance by bringing up the AIDS/HIV issue. Pick up a book and you'll find there are many more heterosexuals infected with the viruses than homosexuals.

I'm done trying to debate this with you because its obvious you are unwilling to see the truth and will always use your religion to justify intolerance.

----------


## intensityfreak

okay i tried to be civil but you are a moron and clearly must be homo, you have not proved any argument all you did was tell what think is correct. as i said above poeple pick and choose what they want to belive and hear. yea im not stupid i no thiers more than homo's that spread the disease everyone knows that, all i did was answer you question you so desperatly wanted me to answer. which was , What negative effect does homo's have on society? now you tell me is that a negative effect or not. well is it. matter of fact i want you to send me a list of positives effeects on society and i will send a list of negatives and well see witch one is begger. we will settle this like that. yea you know mine will be bigger cause thier is know positives of that? just name one, ill be waiting? dont just say im igronant over and oversend me some positives of it then ill be quit? go ahead

----------


## intensityfreak

> Maybe it's a sin against _your_ god.
> It isn't against mine.
> 
> Let me take this opportunity to call your god a dumb  f---. And if your god doesn't like it, your god can strike me dead in my sleep tonight.
> 
> I'll talk to ya tomorrow . . .


quick question, who is your god. what is your religion i would like to research it.

----------


## Tock

> please go out and find me a god or religion thats says it okay to have same sex marriage or same sex period.


Here's some info from Wikipedia:

*Paganism*
In Classical antiquity, religious views on same-sex romance cannot be separated from the general societal view of the subject. Attitudes toward same-sex intercourse differed somewhat between the Greeks and the Romans. In ancient Greece same-sex love was integrated in sacred texts and rituals, reflecting the fact that in antiquity it was considered normal to be open to romantic engagements with either sex. Certain surviving myths depict homosexual bonds (see History), sanctified by divinities modeling such relationships (e.g. Zeus and Ganymede). The Romans viewed sexuality somewhat differently. It was considered appropriate for someone of higher social standing to sexually penetrate someone of lower social standing. Thus, an upper-class male could engage in sexual relations with either a slave or a woman (both below him in standing). It would be inappropriate and indeed condemned for a free Roman man to be penetrated by another man.

The Sumerian religion also held homosexuality sacred. It also was incorporated into various New World religions, such as the Aztec. It is thought to have been common in shamanic practice. In part due to the spread of mideival Christianity there is no clear record of homosexuality in ancient Germanic Paganism. On one hand effeminate and homosexual men were deemed capable of performing a powerful type of female sorcery, called seid; however the trickster and occasional transsexual God Loki accused Norse Paganism's grand patriarch Odin of engaging in the same kind of sorcery.

*Neopagan religion*

Neopagan religions are almost unanimous in their acceptance of same-sex relationships as equal to heterosexual ones. Most Neo-Pagan religions have the theme of fertility (both physical and creative/spiritual) as central to their practices, and as such encourage a healthy sex life, which is seen as consensual sex between adults, regardless of gender or age. Another New Age perspective, however, is that of Eckhart Tolle, author of _The Power of Now_. Starting with the idea that "the realization that you are 'different' from others may force you to disidentify from socially conditioned patterns of thought and behavior," he claims that being gay can help in the "quest for enlightenment", but only so long as one does not "develop a sense of identity based on... gayness".
Wicca, like other religious philosophies has a spectrum of adherents including those with conservative views to liberal views. Nothing in Wiccan philosophy prohibits sexual intercourse outside of marriage or relationships between members of the same sex, however. On the contrary, the Wiccan Rede "An it harm none, do as thou wilt" is interpreted by many to allow and endorse responsible sexual relationships of all varieties.
_The Charge of the Goddess_, says in the words of the Goddess, "all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals"[36] and in the Gardnerian and Alexandrian forms of Wicca, "The Great Rite" is a way of expressing love through sexuality. The ritual is not an excuse to have sex with someone, nor is any sexual activity in a properly consecrated circle a Great Rite.[37] Any sexual acts dealing with Wicca, whether literal or symbolic, is encouraged to take place between two consenting adults, even more so with two involved lovers.
The Wiccan attitude about sexuality as wholly natural, and goes on from there to seek a fuller understanding of masculine-feminine polarity and of how to make constructive use of it  both psychologically and magically. Sexuality freed from the shackles of obligatory breeding is what makes us specifically human.[38]
Other religions collectively termed "Pagan," including Druidism are also accepting in general.

----------


## Tock

> also i am not against gays or dislike them at all and if you dont agree no need to name drop and diss, also sorry if i afended anyone. well i guess back to the steroids then huh.lol


Nope, I'm not offended.

I can tell that you and I come from different backgrounds and consequently have different ideas about things. But should you have the same opinions about things as me? No. Should I have the same opinions about things as you? In my humble opinion, No. 


But I'll tell you what makes sense to me: Determinism. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism
*Determinism* (also called *antiserendipity*) is the philosophical proposition that every event, including human cognition and behavior, decision and action, is causally determined by an unbroken chain of prior occurrences.

It makes a lot more sense than the Christian fundamentalism I was taught years ago, where preachers told me:

1) the Bible is 100% true
2) the Bible has no errors whatsoever

. . . and then when I read scriptures like:

_Matt 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven._ 

. . . yet, when two of Jesus' followers "agree," nothing happens. 

Lots of people "beleive" in the Ten Commandments, and beleive that you and I should comply with all ten of them. However, very few of them actually know what they are, and even fewer comply with the Commandments themselves.

For instance, do you keep the Sabbath the way the Old Testament commands? 
_8 Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy._
_9 For six days you shall labour and do all your work._
_10 But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any workyou, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns._

And, do you ever covet other folk's stuff?
_17 You shall not covet your neighbours house; you shall not covet your neighbours wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour._

Should US law be based on the Ten Commandments, even the one that states:
_3 Do not have any other gods before me._
If so, then we're gonna have to round up a lot of people for nothing other than blasphemy. 


After studying the Bible for a number of years (I almost became a preacher myself) I concluded that it didn't make any sense if it was supposed to be 100% error-free, and if I was supposed to comply with everything it dictated. The Bible's promises were not kept, and lots of other things in its pages made no sense. So, I changed my opinion about the Bible, and I've been a lot happier ever since. 

I am hopeful that you will have the occasion to examine your own beleifs and ultimately trade your fundamentalist opinions for notions that make more sense.

----------


## Tock

> just some words of my thoughts: how can you believe nothing,


It's not that non-beleivers "beleive in nothing." Instead, we wait for information that makes sense before accepting it as true.

----------


## Kärnfysikern

> last thing to everybody, you say my god is messed up, but please please please go out and find me a god or religion thats says it okay to have same sex marriage or same sex period. please do that and let me know.


And again I ask, why does it matter? Why should anyone not religious care about what is written in a religious book? Jews and muslims dont eat pork, I dont care and eat it anyway. The abrahamic religions thinks gays are bad, doesnt bother me. The norse and the aztec religions demand sacrifices, not something Im going to lose sleep over. Buddhism wants us to give up all material things, fat chance!

I assume you dont worry about eating pork and isnt prone to ritual sacrifises, so why should anyone not following your religion care about your religions view on homosexuality?





> thier is and will never be a place in society for gays, they will always be looked at as outcast's and will always be in danger. period thats just the way it is. i could be wrong but i think thats how it is.


There are societies historicaly where beeing homosexual wasnt a sensitive issue. The roman empire for instance, perhaphs the most succesfull society in human history. 

Now I can say that in sweden nobody is in danger for beeing gay. Sure we got dickheads here aswell of course and I bet its no fun beeing gay in high school etc. But if two guys kiss on the street most people wouldnt care. Things can get better and more tolerant, but there is no reason to assume its impossible to achieve a society where sexual preference doesnt matter.

----------


## Kärnfysikern

> how can you believe nothing, i've fought in wars and seen what poeple do to each other, i belive because i know thier is something better out there than all this


Its not about beliving in nothing, its about not beliving in things there is no reason to belive in. For a atheist there is no more reason to belive in god than Zeus, Thor or the invisible pink unicorn on the dark side of the moon.

God has always existed in the realms where our knoweledge was slim, we didnt understand what the sun was so we name her a god. We didnt know what ligthing was so we thought it was a god etc. The more we learn about the universe the less room there is for god, everything science has encountered so far has been explainable without the paranormal.

----------


## SMCengineer

> 1) *what negative impact does it have on the society?*
> dang near none, only the spread of a virus that kills over a million people a year and that has no cure, it only have yet to reach 2 million, so no big deal about that. also would you think that thier is more positives or negatives out of homosexuality


I wasn't gonna get involved in this arguement until I saw this, which logically makes no sense. If your concerned about the HIV/aids virus spreading than wouldn't it serve to better society by allowing homosexuals to get married? It would legally bind them to monogamous relationships and help _stop_ the spread of the virus, if you in fact believe that homosexuals are the main carriers, which we know isn't true. 

Also the question about whether there are more positives or negatives to homosexuality is unsubstantial since it has no affect on _you_ whatsoever.

----------


## brewerpi

[QUOTE=Prada;3909477]Everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as it is expressed in a mature and non-derogatory way. Keep it civil guys. 

Dangercat, at the same time she might lose a lot of the somewhat conservative votes that jumped ship or that had an interest in her. 

Bravo-I am always amused when the people who claim to be the most liberal seem to want to limit the free speech of someone who doesn't agree with them.

----------


## BgMc31

> okay i tried to be civil but you are a moron and clearly must be homo, you have not proved any argument all you did was tell what think is correct. as i said above poeple pick and choose what they want to belive and hear. yea im not stupid i no thiers more than homo's that spread the disease everyone knows that, all i did was answer you question you so desperatly wanted me to answer. which was , What negative effect does homo's have on society? now you tell me is that a negative effect or not. well is it. matter of fact i want you to send me a list of positives effeects on society and i will send a list of negatives and well see witch one is begger. we will settle this like that. yea you know mine will be bigger cause thier is know positives of that? just name one, ill be waiting? dont just say im igronant over and oversend me some positives of it then ill be quit? go ahead


Not only have you proven you ignorance by showing that you have no clue what you are talking about (ignorance=lack of knowledge). You then show your lack of maturity by calling me a moron and gay (homo as you put it). But it doesn't offend me at all because it just means that I've struck a nerve with you and its pissed you off to the point to which you would resort to such childish games. Its laughable to me. Here is something most find quite true. Most of the people who are so vehemently opposed to homosexual lifestyle in the face of clear evidence of it having no negative effect on society tend to be latent homosexuals themselves and are ashamed of it, therefore practicing a form of self-hatred. Just food for thought.

Anyway, I don't have to prove homosexuality has a positive effect on society. My point, which has been state by me and countless others, is why does it matter. There are many things in this country that don't effect the public at large either way so we don't concern ourselves with it. Once it becomes a societal burden, then we should examine it and outlaw it if it is an issue. But homosexuality doesn't hurt society at all. I can think of one positive off the top of my head. How bout allowing gays and lesbian the same freedom enjoyed by everyone thereby lessening the tensions in this country if only by a fraction. Allow them to marry and no more demonstrations that can haunt conservatives who think gays and lesbians are pushing their homosexual agendas. LoL! 

Equal rights sounds like a pretty good positive to me!

But once again, how does homosexuality have a negative impact on society? I'm still waiting for you to come up with one plausible argument. And lease don't answer my question with a question again. Makes you look even more ignorant.

----------


## Kärnfysikern

I know of one positive effect of homosexuality. Lesbian porn! How can anyone religious not agree that is gods finest gift to mankind or atleast half of it?

----------


## Prada

> I know of one positive effect of homosexuality. Lesbian porn! How can anyone religious not agree that is gods finest gift to mankind or atleast half of it?


One positive effect? What about more homosexuals =................................. more women available for us!!



*NB: Assuming there are more male homosexuals then female.

----------


## Act of God

another positive effect: Less people being born and thus, helping the earth's overpopulation issues. Additionally, more parking spaces open and less traffic as a result.

----------


## SMCengineer

^^Less kids being born leads to more kids being adopted, which would most likely lower abortion rates. The law of supply and demand.

----------


## Carlos_E

> okay i tried to be civil but you are a moron and clearly must be homo, you have not proved any argument all you did was tell what think is correct. as i said above poeple pick and choose what they want to belive and hear. yea im not stupid i no thiers more than homo's that spread the disease everyone knows that, all i did was answer you question you so desperatly wanted me to answer. which was , What negative effect does homo's have on society? now you tell me is that a negative effect or not. well is it. matter of fact i want you to send me a list of positives effeects on society and i will send a list of negatives and well see witch one is begger. we will settle this like that. yea you know mine will be bigger cause thier is know positives of that? just name one, ill be waiting? dont just say im igronant over and oversend me some positives of it then ill be quit? go ahead


You let them go long enough they dig their own hole.  :Smilie:

----------


## 39+1

> Keep your right wing close minded religious fundamentalist opinions to yourself. There are several well respected homosexual members on this message board. You have no right to tell other people how to live or to try and impose your 5,000 year old ideology onto other people through legislation. People like you, make me sick.


Intnsityfreak your just a cock sucker im a white male and have no problems with giving same rigths to the homos. And actually you comment about black and white marriages not being againts the' "rules" of the bible is absurd what the hell do you think the KKK base there beliefs on dumb ass. 
Small minded people like you are just the same people that did not allow white and black people or any interatial couple to legally mary in the united stated until 1959 ( i think that date is right)which occured in orange county california. Today everyone accepts interratial marriages. lets go 20 years into the future and and homo marriges will be accepted and the people that opposed it will be thought of just what they are today small minded selfish people. I bet your one of those that have been married and divorced but stand on the podium shouting we must maintain the sactity of marriage, Ha what a tool you must be

----------


## Carlos_E

No need for flaming. Please stop the name calling.

----------


## kfrost06

> No need for flaming. Please stop the name calling.


+1, ^^^ 

To 39+1, why is it necessary to start calling names? Is that really going to help your arguement? Besides, to my knowledge calling someone a "cock sucker" and a "homo" is not pro-gay language

----------


## Act of God

> +1, ^^^ 
> 
> To 39+1, why is it necessary to start calling names? Is that really going to help your arguement? Besides, to my knowledge calling someone a "cock sucker" and a "homo" is not pro-gay language


I would have been banned if I said something like that...

----------


## Carlos_E

Everyone gets a warning first. How many have you gotten?

----------


## Act of God

> Everyone gets a warning first. How many have you gotten?


Warnings? None, "they" just go straight to the ban. Half the time I don't even know why. That's ok, I see how it is around here. Don't worry Carlos, I'll make sure never to have an opinion different than yours...since you are so morally evolved compared to the rest of us.

----------


## Carlos_E

If you were banned you would not be here now. You have received warnings. They're tracked.

----------


## Act of God

> If you were banned you would not be here now. You have received warnings. They're tracked.


Unless your definition of "warning" is a week long "ban" then yes, I have only been warned. The board itself, however, says "you have been banned" so maybe you should have a little elite super awesome board power guys meeting to get the labels correct.

Either way, I'm bored of talking about this. Try to keep it consistent.

----------


## Carlos_E

> Unless your definition of "warning" is a week long "ban" then yes, I have only been warned. The board itself, however, says "you have been banned" so maybe you should have a little elite super awesome board power guys meeting to get the labels correct.

----------


## 39+1

> +1, ^^^ 
> 
> To 39+1, why is it necessary to start calling names? Is that really going to help your arguement? Besides, to my knowledge calling someone a "cock sucker" and a "homo" is not pro-gay language


You need to reread my post, slowly so youll understand it. Idiot! LOL

----------


## Carlos_E

> You need to reread my post, slowly so youll understand it. Idiot! LOL


Check your PMs.

----------


## Act of God

> 


Oh the Irony!

Love (Irony)

----------


## Tock

> Let me take this opportunity to call your god a dumb  f---. And if your god doesn't like it, your god can strike me dead in my sleep tonight.
> 
> I'll talk to ya tomorrow . . .


I posted this on April 5, and it's now April 7. Looks like your god doesn't mind being called a dumb  :1hifu:  f---.



The problem with your god is that it is too small.
A suitable remedy can be found in the pages of a book by that name:
"Your God is Too Small" 
written by a smart fellow by the name of J.B.Phillips about 30 years ago (he also wrote one of the only intelligent English translations of the New Testament, which I also highly recommend for your edification and spiritual enlightenment). 

Here's a review, which I copied from Amazon.com:
-------------------------

*Book Description
*In _Your God Is Too Small,_ J. B. Phillips explains that the trouble facing many of us today is that we have not found a God big enough for our modern needs. In a world where our experience of life has grown in myriad directions, and our mental horizons have been expanded to the point of bewilderment by world events and scientific discoveries, our ideas of God have remained largely static. 

It is nearly impossible, Phillips argues, for an adult to worship the conception of God that exists in the mind of a child of Sunday-school age, the "God-in-a-box" notion, limiting God to such inadequate conceptions as "Resident Policeman," "Grand Old Man," "Meek-and-Mild," and "Managing Director." As a result of these insufficient ideas of God, many people live with an inner dissatisfaction, without any faith at all. _Your God Is Too Small_ explores the ways in which we can find a truly meaningful and constructive God for ourselves, big enough to account for our current experience of life and big enough to command our highest admiration and respect.

----------


## Amorphic

man these political/sexual orientation threads sure bring out the hate.

looks like intensityfreak got what he had coming though  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## Prada

^^Well...good cant be mature for a discussion, then no need to ruin the thread. He was warned and was oblivious to the fact that he was deciding his own fate.

----------


## kfrost06

> I posted this on April 5, and it's now April 7. Looks like your god doesn't mind being called a dumb  f---.


It's a good thing too since I have called Him much worse things. In fact I am sure at sometime everyone has called Him some bad names.

----------


## Dangercat00

Man this went from a decent political discussion into "hurrrr gays are bad!" pretty quickly. Please stop talking Intensity....you give Christians a bad name.

----------


## kfrost06

well in case you didn't notice, Intensity was banned sometime last week. I reread his post too and nowhere does he say gays are bad, in fact he said, "also poeple no way shape or form do i hate or even dislike gays" but I did see "cock sucker" , "idiot", "homos" and countless other names being thrown around. Your quote "hurr gays are bad" is an out right lie, no one said that other than you and you did so in order to scare away others from discussing an important topic. If you or others think a bill giving federal benefits to same sex couples is going to pass with out a debate your crazy. Further more the side that starts name calling is going to be the side that losses.

----------


## BgMc31

Great job coming to the defense of Intensityfreak Kfrost. But he did call me a homo. Which I brushed off. I did call him ignorant because that is an accurate adjective. His post clearly shows he lacks significant knowledge and he is basing his argument strictly on untrue stereotypes (ie gays are the leading cause of the spread of AIDS and HIV), and his religious beliefs. 

No one on his, or your side, has come up with a real world reason as to why same-sex couples are allowed to marry. I've asked you and he that question numerous time and have yet to hear an answer. Please enlighten us as to why discrimination is justified.

----------


## kfrost06

I am not going to stick up for his comments but I am not going to put false comments to his credit either. I didn't like his comments either and I really don't like people using the homo comment which ironicly was done by both sides, neither was right for using it. It just started to look more like a Jerry Springer show then a debate. But I do agree with your comment 


> No one on his, or your side, has come up with a real world reason as to why same-sex couples are allowed to marry.

----------


## kfrost06

oh yes, I *will* take advantage of a mistyped sentence

----------


## Act of God

> Great job coming to the defense of Intensityfreak Kfrost. But he did call me a homo. Which I brushed off. I did call him ignorant because that is an accurate adjective. His post clearly shows he lacks significant knowledge and he is basing his argument strictly on untrue stereotypes (ie gays are the leading cause of the spread of AIDS and HIV), and his religious beliefs. 
> 
> No one on his, or your side, has come up with a real world reason as to why same-sex couples are allowed to marry. I've asked you and he that question numerous time and have yet to hear an answer. Please enlighten us as to why discrimination is justified.


You aren't gay right? I don't know what his intentions where, but could he have been referring to the other common usage of those terms? I know a lot of people are uncomfortable with locker room use of "homo", "fag" and the other ones but I truly feel like it has grown legs into its own meaning completely separate from homosexuality.

Again, I have no idea what he was aiming at....considering the thread and the way the conversation was going I'd probably think he meant it the traditional way too now that I think about it. The only thing that doesn't make sense, is I do not believe you are gay...

----------


## BgMc31

> oh yes, I *will* take advantage of a mistyped sentence


touche' Kfrost, but you know what I meant and have yet to answer the question!

----------


## BgMc31

> You aren't gay right? I don't know what his intentions where, but could he have been referring to the other common usage of those terms? I know a lot of people are uncomfortable with locker room use of "homo", "fag" and the other ones but I truly feel like it has grown legs into its own meaning completely separate from homosexuality.
> 
> Again, I have no idea what he was aiming at....considering the thread and the way the conversation was going I'd probably think he meant it the traditional way too now that I think about it. The only thing that doesn't make sense, is I do not believe you are gay...


Nah, not gay. Just don't like it when people try to justify discrimination simply on the basis of 'GOD TO ME SO'. I guess the word 'homo' in todays language does have a plethora of meanings but so does the 'n' word. But the way he used it towards me implies that in my defending same-sex marriage means that I am gay. Which couldn't be further from the truth.

The point of my argument is that you don't necessarily have to agree or practice a lifestyle in order to find it acceptable. Some people don't think interracial relationships are natural, some people don't feel children should be raised by single mothers, etc. But regardless of what we thing personally, as long as it doesn't have a negative effect on society as a whole, why should it matter? No one here or anywhere else have yet to answer that question!

----------


## BigLittleTim

Back to the original post...

I think Hillary Clinton shows quite a bit of _backbone_ by supporting equal rights for gays and lesbians while still seeking the nomination for the Presidency. Not only does she support equality, she also disagrees with many of the anti-equality policies (Don't ask, don't tell; Defense of Marriage Act) enacted by her husband, Bill Clinton, when he was in office.

You can hardly say she is pandering to the masses for votes. She may pick up some gay voters who are leaning towards Obama, but she risks loosing all those "bitter, blue-collar workers", out there in Middle America, who may not embrace equal rights for "the queers" (a group they have never encountered except on T.V. or as depicted in the movies.)

-BigLittleTim

----------


## Carlos_E

> Back to the original post...
> 
> I think Hillary Clinton shows quite a bit of _backbone_ by supporting equal rights for gays and lesbians while still seeking the nomination for the Presidency. Not only does she support equality, she also disagrees with many of the anti-equality policies (Don't ask, don't tell; Defense of Marriage Act) enacted by her husband, Bill Clinton, when he was in office.


Obama supports all of the above except he's not an evil **** while doing so like Hillary.  :Smilie:

----------


## lotaquestions

dont know if im to late, but if being gay became officially "reconized" by the govmt wouldnt we have to add additional restrooms/locker rooms to every public place? or should we just have an universal one with urinals and tampon machines side by side?

----------


## BgMc31

> dont know if im to late, but if being gay became officially "reconized" by the govmt wouldnt we have to add additional restrooms/locker rooms to every public place? or should we just have an universal one with urinals and tampon machines side by side?


That's a ridiculously absurd argument lotaquestions! Sexual orientation doesn't change what sex you are.

----------


## lotaquestions

> That's a ridiculously absurd argument lotaquestions! Sexual orientation doesn't change what sex you are.


i know i just thought it was funny.

----------


## lotaquestions

i do think that it could lead to more sexual harassment issues though.

----------


## pump.joe

> Obama supports all of the above except he's not an evil **** while doing so like Hillary.


Right on! I really don't get why people support her over Obama.

----------


## Act of God

> i do think that it could lead to more sexual harassment issues though.


Try going to the NYSC men's locker room in Chelsea if you want a first hand experience of that. There's one place I won't be returning to.

----------


## BgMc31

> i do think that it could lead to more sexual harassment issues though.


How so? Are you saying homosexual people are bigger sexual harassers than hetero people? Don't gay people use the rest room now and you don't even know it? Why would that change with government recognition of homosexual relationships?

----------


## lotaquestions

> How so? Are you saying homosexual people are bigger sexual harassers than hetero people? Don't gay people use the rest room now and you don't even know it? Why would that change with government recognition of homosexual relationships?


should i have the right to know it? yes. what is the difference in a gay man pissing next to me and me going into the womens rest room? both should be considered sexual harassment. 

do you think a man should be allowed to marry an animal? should a man be allowed to marry a car? i dont know how you feel about it but i believe that somethings should be kept sacred, but what the heck its the '00.

----------


## BgMc31

^You are a typical homophobe. You have no idea if you pissed next to a gay man or not. Its completely different than pissing next to a woman.

Marriage is a contract between two consenting adults. If you were married you would know this. A man (or woman) can't enter into a contract with a car, animal, or child.

If homosexuals are bigger sexual harassers please provide evidence of that.

----------


## Tock

> should i have the right to know it? yes.


Why? 

A restroom is just a place to empty the contents of your bowels. Maybe you would like to loiter and ask everyone what sort of sex they prefer, but you'll only get yourself arrested for being a public nuisance.










> what is the difference in a gay man pissing next to me and me going into the womens rest room?


Try this experiment:

1) First, pee next to a gay man in a restroom.
2) Second, enter a women's restroom, preferably when it is crowded.
3) Return and report on the essential differences of your experiences.











> do you think a man should be allowed to marry an animal? should a man be allowed to marry a car?


Sure. If he can find a clergyman to conduct a religious marriage ceremony, let him. God can make of it what He likes. But, since a contract is valid only between adult humans, our secular government won't give it any regard, other than to consider putting the fellow in an institution . . .










> i dont know how you feel about it but i believe that somethings should be kept sacred


You and your religious pals should feel free to keep anything you like sacred. The rest of us may not agree with your religious opinions, so we may have other thoughts . . .

----------


## lotaquestions

starting the name calling already. the definition of a marriage is a legal union between one man and one woman as husband and wife. if you get to changing it when will the changing stop. so are you saying that incestrial marriage should be legal?

i was not saying that homosexuals are bigger harassers than hetros. just that if they began to have more equality/recognition in the society than you will have a huge rise in homo to hetro harassment, a case that virtually unexistant today.

----------


## Tock

> the definition of a marriage is a legal union between one man and one woman as husband and wife.


Not in Massachusetts, England, Sweden, Spain, The Netherlands, and several other countries. 

That definition will be soon changing in other states and other countries.











> if you get to changing it when will the changing stop.


March 22, 2113
at 3:55 pm, Central time













> so are you saying that incestrial marriage should be legal?


_Incestrial_, no. _Ancestral_, yes.











> i was not saying that homosexuals are bigger harassers than hetros. just that if they began to have more equality/recognition in the society than you will have a huge rise in homo to hetro harassment


You could be correct.

Gay-to-heterosexual sexual harrassment could double or even triple, in which case the number of cases could rise from one to two, or even three.

----------


## Coop77

> what is the difference in a gay man pissing next to me and me going into the womens rest room? both should be considered sexual harassment.


I think the whole point of society separating men from women in restrooms/dressing rooms is because of the anatomy differences. A gay dude has the same anatomy as a straight dude, as far as I know.

----------


## BgMc31

sometimes I think lotsaquestions is ****in with us. he can't honestly believe everything he posts...can he?

----------


## BigLittleTim

> Obama supports all of the above except he's not an evil **** while doing so like Hillary.


I like them both, but I think Hillary's got the balls to do whatever it takes to defeat the Republicans. The charge that the Clintons will do whatever it takes to win, leveled by Obama supporters, is true. We need someone like that to defeat the Republicans who have gotten the country into the mess it's in today.

_"Power is not a reward that's given to good little boys and girls. Power is a weapon that a strong man uses to beat his enemies, and if you don't seize this very dirty stick and beat your opponent with it then rest assured that HE will use it against you, and I tell you that you don't DESERVE to be president... HE does, because he wants it more than you do and will do whatever it takes to get it."_
-Gore Vidal "The Best Man"

My prediction: If the Democrats nominate Obama, in a self-congradulatory fit of open mindedness, he will loose to McCain in the general election. As we approach the election McCain will be made to look more and more presidential: a moderate, practical, senior-statesman with actual war experience (including being a prisoner of war) and new-found international respect. Obama will sound more and more like Jesse Jackson; marginalized by the press as an inexperienced light-weight who makes inspirational speeches but whom no one would entrust with the leadership of the United States.

Not that I like it, just what's gonna happen.  :Tear: 

-BigLittleTim

----------


## lotaquestions

how would gay marriage benefit the world? why should we be worried about giving equal rights to some one with a perversion? does it work for pedofiles also? are they are a minority that needs equal rights? gay marriage would lead to polygamist marriages...that would lead to abolition of marriages all together....which would lead to broken homes (homes in which they are only exposed to one sex, which is crucial to healthy mental development)....which would lead to more mental disorders/behavioral problems...which leads to an even worse economy and lifestyle for all every one else.

we would also start to teach homosexuality, polligamy, incest and pedofillia as acceptable, normal ways of life in schools. 

homo sexual activity also lead to the spread of more stds, which effects all of us, in some way shape or form. http://www.worstgenerationseed.blogs...sexuality.html - 277k -

by govmt recognizing homosexuality, we have to recognize another minority, caidor to their needs. which will put a strain on the work force in order to make things equal by hiring less qualified people to meet the minority quota.

if you want to practice homosexuality thats your personal business, and doesnt neccasrily effect me. but for my govmt to demand you have equal rights does effect me, directly.

what are the benefits to gay marriages, other than making people feel "good?"
im sorry some people will have to be offended, buy isnt that the way the world works.

----------


## lotaquestions

> sometimes I think lotsaquestions is ****in with us. he can't honestly believe everything he posts...can he?


if i had a nickel lol

----------


## Act of God

> How so? Are you saying homosexual people are bigger sexual harassers than hetero people? Don't gay people use the rest room now and you don't even know it? Why would that change with government recognition of homosexual relationships?


Actually, restrooms are separate because of both the anatomical differences as well as the sexual preferences. Women don't want to be ogled in the bathroom, just like straight men don't want to be ogled by gay men. In a locker room women may walk around topless or naked and they don't want to be seen by the opposite sex that is traditionally (and almost exclusively when those rules came about) attracted to them. 

Every guy has seen a tit in their lifetime, so it isn't like they are keeping a well-hidden secret. A straight man/woman should have the same rights as to a homosexual being in the same room, technically.

I'm not saying every gay man ogles every man, but not every straight man would ogle a woman so if you are going to apply it to one you have to apply it to the other.

For the record, I don't support separate gay bathrooms. I just can see why people would be uncomfortable (and from my own experience mentioned above).

----------


## BigLittleTim

> ...that would lead to abolition of marriages all together....which would lead to more mental disorders/behavioral problems...which leads to an even worse economy and lifestyle for all every one else.


_Well now, let me ask you:
If all of the children, born here in Spoon River 
Had been reared by the County, somewhere on a farm; 
And the fathers and mothers had been given their freedom 
To live and enjoy, change mates if they wished, 
Do you think that Spoon River
Had been any the worse?_ 

Edgar Lee Masters (1868–1950). Spoon River Anthology. 1916.

----------


## kfrost06

I would not want to go to the bathroom next to Sen. Craig from Idaho, sheez, he da ho.

On June 11, 2007, Craig was arrested at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport on suspicion of lewd conduct. The nature of the alleged activity has been categorized by some as cottaging.According to the police report, the police officer sat in a bathroom stall as part of an undercover operation investigating complaints of sexual activity in the restroom. After about 13 minutes of sitting in the stall, *the police officer observed Craig lingering outside and frequently peeking through the crack of the door on the stall.* Craig then entered the stall to the left of the officer's stall. The police officer made the following observations, which he recorded in his report of the incident, as to what happened next:

At 1216 hours, Craig tapped his right foot. I recognized this as a signal used by persons wishing to engage in lewd conduct. Craig tapped his toes several times and moves his foot closer to my foot. ... The presence of others did not seem to deter Craig as he moved his right foot so that it touched the side of my left foot which was within my stall area. Craig then proceeded to swipe his left hand under the stall divider several times, with the palm of his hand facing upward.

According to the incident report and criminal complaint filed in court, the officer showed Craig his police identification beneath the partition separating their stalls, and the officer then pointed his finger towards the restroom exit. Craig initially said no, but he ultimately complied with the officer's request to leave the restroom. After Craig and the officer left the restroom, Craig was reluctant to go with the officer and demanded the officer show his police identification a second time. Once the officer complied with the request, Craig, the arresting officer, and a police detective, who was stationed outside of the restroom, went to the airport police station

----------


## kfrost06

Just so people don't get the wrong idea, Sen. Craig is not gay, here's his words

In an August 28, 2007 press conference in Boise, Idaho, Craig said:

"I am not gay. I never have been gay."

So there goes that argument, besides he's married and right now gays are not allowed to get married in the USA.

----------


## BgMc31

> how would gay marriage benefit the world? why should we be worried about giving equal rights to some one with a perversion? does it work for pedofiles also? are they are a minority that needs equal rights? gay marriage would lead to polygamist marriages...that would lead to abolition of marriages all together....which would lead to broken homes (homes in which they are only exposed to one sex, which is crucial to healthy mental development)....which would lead to more mental disorders/behavioral problems...which leads to an even worse economy and lifestyle for all every one else.
> 
> we would also start to teach homosexuality, polligamy, incest and pedofillia as acceptable, normal ways of life in schools. 
> 
> homo sexual activity also lead to the spread of more stds, which effects all of us, in some way shape or form. http://www.worstgenerationseed.blogs...sexuality.html - 277k -
> 
> by govmt recognizing homosexuality, we have to recognize another minority, caidor to their needs. which will put a strain on the work force in order to make things equal by hiring less qualified people to meet the minority quota.
> 
> if you want to practice homosexuality thats your personal business, and doesnt neccasrily effect me. but for my govmt to demand you have equal rights does effect me, directly.
> ...


Hey Chicken Little the sky ISN'T falling!!!!!

Your conclusions are absurd and definitely not well thought out. Again, you playing on homophobic stereotypes that have no basis in facts. 

Stop posting crap because we are all a little dumber for reading that nonsense you posted.

ActofGod, I feel equally uncomfortable when a fat ugly chick hits on me as when a gay dude hits on me. But I don't freak out. Being an athlete the majority of my life, I've shared locker rooms with both gay and straight men and didn't feel threatened by either. A gay man isn't going to hit on every man regardless of whether they are attracted to them or not (in most cases), just look you and I wouldn't hit on every attractive woman we see. Using the bathroom issue as a why to justify discrimination rings of 'colored only' bathrooms years ago and remember the justification then was whites didn't feel comfortable around blacks.

----------


## Act of God

> =ActofGod, I feel equally uncomfortable when a fat ugly chick hits on me as when a gay dude hits on me. But I don't freak out. Being an athlete the majority of my life, I've shared locker rooms with both gay and straight men and didn't feel threatened by either. A gay man isn't going to hit on every man regardless of whether they are attracted to them or not (in most cases), just look you and I wouldn't hit on every attractive woman we see. Using the bathroom issue as a why to justify discrimination rings of 'colored only' bathrooms years ago and remember the justification then was whites didn't feel comfortable around blacks.


How do you reconcile that with gender specific bathrooms then? I don't think you can logically do it.

----------


## BgMc31

> How do you reconcile that with gender specific bathrooms then? I don't think you can logically do it.


I honestl don't believe there is a logical reason behind gender specific bathrooms. I believe they are a consequence of Victorian sexual prudence.

While I understand any persons apprehension to homosexuals being in Chelsea or here in Vegas there is an area called the 'fruit loop', and other areas frequented by homosexuals one would expect to be approached by one as these are areas that are frequented by homosexuals.

While the anti-gay threads are interesting debates, I'm going to stop posting on them.. The arguments for anti-homosexual theories hold no water and the level of ignorance by some is astounding (no directed towards you actofgod or kfrost). Plus our resident homosexuals on the forum choose not to stoop to their level and I should use them as an example.

----------


## Coop77

> how would gay marriage benefit the world?


Providing equal rights to all is a benefit to society. 




> does it work for pedofiles also?


No. Children are not consenting taxpaying adults.




> gay marriage would lead to polygamist marriages...that would lead to abolition of marriages all together....


Good. Let marriage be a entirely religious institution. Let churches marry or refuse to marry whoever they want. I see no reason for the government to be involved. 




> which would lead to broken homes (homes in which they are only exposed to one sex, which is crucial to healthy mental development)....


No it's not. Google it. Children raised by same sex couples are just as healthy and well-adjusted as children raised by married heterosexuals. A loving home is all that's important. 




> homo sexual activity also lead to the spread of more stds, which effects all of us, in some way shape or form.


Lesbians have the lowest STD rates of any demographic. 




> if you want to practice homosexuality thats your personal business, and doesnt neccasrily effect me. but for my govmt to demand you have equal rights does effect me, directly.


Please explain how. 




> what are the benefits to gay marriages, other than making people feel "good?"


Tax benefits. 
Tax filing.
Inheritance benefits. 
Dual home ownership benefits. 
Health insurance. 
Hospital visitation / living will / power of attorney
The list goes on and on. Lots of legal benefits are afforded to legally married couples.

----------


## Coop77

> Actually, restrooms are separate because of both the anatomical differences as well as the sexual preferences. Women don't want to be ogled in the bathroom, just like straight men don't want to be ogled by gay men. In a locker room women may walk around topless or naked and they don't want to be seen by the opposite sex that is traditionally (and almost exclusively when those rules came about) attracted to them.


I don't see why anyone cares. I really don't care if a guy is ogling me in a dressing room.

----------


## lotaquestions

> Hey Chicken Little the sky ISN'T falling!!!!!
> 
> Your conclusions are absurd and definitely not well thought out. Again, you playing on homophobic stereotypes that have no basis in facts. 
> 
> Stop posting crap because we are all a little dumber for reading that nonsense you posted.
> 
> ActofGod, I feel equally uncomfortable when a fat ugly chick hits on me as when a gay dude hits on me. But I don't freak out. Being an athlete the majority of my life, I've shared locker rooms with both gay and straight men and didn't feel threatened by either. A gay man isn't going to hit on every man regardless of whether they are attracted to them or not (in most cases), just look you and I wouldn't hit on every attractive woman we see. Using the bathroom issue as a why to justify discrimination rings of 'colored only' bathrooms years ago and remember the justification then was whites didn't feel comfortable around blacks.


im sorry i guess im the only ignorant person in the world who doesnt believe that our govmt should recognize a perversion as normal and acceptable. this is not based on religious beliefs, but the simple fact that homosexuality is a perversion, just as is pedofilia, incest and beastiality. clearly bigmc your opinion is the only one that matters and all others are ignorant. i apologize for the inconvience. we should all strive to have an one race-bisexual world so that nobody will have to get their feelings hurt. once again my deepest apologizes.

----------


## lotaquestions

> Providing equal rights to all is a benefit to society. 
> 
> only if you are not a white-strait-male. they have the same rights now as i do...to marry a woman, is that not equal. 
> 
> No. Children are not consenting taxpaying adults.
> 
> yeah i know, i was being extreme. 
> 
> Good. Let marriage be a entirely religious institution. Let churches marry or refuse to marry whoever they want. I see no reason for the government to be involved. 
> ...


these only benefit the individuals, not society. but, yes these are benefits of being married legitimately. homosexuality is no more than a mental disorder/perversion like the others i mentioned.

----------


## lotaquestions

i messed up the post its in there somewhere, i suck on the computer.lol

----------


## lotaquestions

> Hey Chicken Little the sky ISN'T falling!!!!!
> 
> Your conclusions are absurd and definitely not well thought out. Again, you playing on homophobic stereotypes that have no basis in facts. 
> 
> Stop posting crap because we are all a little dumber for reading that nonsense you posted.


once again a resolution of name calling, instead of intelligent thought. i may not have read as many books as you, but i did read the one about "if you give a mouse a cookie." try it, i may enlighten your narrow mind a little bit. it appears that i am not alone in my insanity:

http://www.nogaymarriage.com/tenarguments.asp

what is funny is i posted it before i found that website

----------


## Tock

> i messed up the post its in there somewhere, i suck on the computer.lol


 :EEK!:  That's kinky . . .

----------


## Coop77

> only if you are not a white-strait-male. they have the same rights now as i do...to marry a woman, is that not equal.


You asked how it would "benefit the world", not how it would benefit white-straight-males. The world includes more than white-straight-males.




> let the church recognize who/what they want but that doesnt mean the govmt should recognize it. they should recieve all of the couple benefits in their church/religious settings. but not in the govmt.


Congratulations, you're describing the current system, where churches apply one set of set of standards, then the government applies a separate set for legal benefits. Since everyone pays taxes, any set of standrds other than "two taxpaying adults" applied by the gov't is discriminatory.




> when there is no evidence that shows that it is any thing more than a mental disorder..


Maybe _you_ think it's a mental illness, but pretty much every mainstream psychologist disagrees with you and views homosexuality as a normal variant of human sexuality. It's been taken off of all lists of mental illnesses for years. You've got to admit you're wrong on this one. Dude, google "homosexuality mental illness" and see what comes up.




> i dont know where you looked...Social science evidence agrees that the best environment for the well-being of children is a household with both a mother and a father. A homosexual environment, on the other hand, can model homosexual behavior to children. In a study


That one guy's opinion, and it doesn't say they're not well adjusted, not happy, not healthy, or grow up to be murderers.. Kids are raised in all kinds of families, and most are fine. 




> gay men have the highest.
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/dstd/Press...STDGay2000.htm - 22k


Gay guys are guys. They have a lot of sex. If society acknowledged their relationships maybe that would encourage monogamy and reduce the STDs. See.. this is an example of how gay marriage would benefit society.




> i already did. physically: std rate financially: medicare/s.s. professionally: minorities "rights" to worry about and consequnces if i dont mentally: taught in schools to as acceptable/normal emotionally: the abolition of marriage spiritually: not worth any thing on this forum it seems to effect me in many different ways.


As far as STDs, you're arguing against your position. Allowing gays to marry would likely lower their STD rate, benefiting you.

The other things you list are just you being selfish, i.e. "I don't want gays to marry because that means I'll have to pay for their medicare benefits." You could apply the same argument to justify discrimination of blacks, or any group. 

By the way, guess what, gays pay more taxes than married couples, which means they're paying for *your* medicare, benefits that they're not allowed themselves.

----------


## Carlos_E

> Try going to the NYSC men's locker room in Chelsea if you want a first hand experience of that. There's one place I won't be returning to.


Nor I. The only reason people go there is to get picked up. Not actually to workout. I walked in and some man was on the gym floor in a little ass hugging wrestler outfit. I turned around and walked out.

----------


## wantmoremass

> Good. Let marriage be a entirely religious institution. Let churches marry or refuse to marry whoever they want. I see no reason for the government to be involved.


I disagree, unless you're referring to marriage only as a religious institution with a similarly binding form of partnership to be recognized civilly. There are many couples who want to make a commitment to each other but they don't believe in god, the church, or religion in general. Those people get their wedding performed by the state in the form of marriage commissioners, judges, etc. 

In Canada, the precedent has been set that gay marriage is legal, and the provincial authorities are required to recognize that marriage. My mom is a marriage commissioner, and she hasn't married any gay couples, but she told me she would - I haven't decided if I believe as a provincial officer MC's should have the right to decline on religious/moral beliefs - separation of church and state being what it is.

----------


## buttercup

> dont know if im to late, but if being gay became officially "reconized" by the govmt wouldnt we have to add additional restrooms/locker rooms to every public place? or should we just have an universal one with urinals and tampon machines side by side?


no more gender specific restrooms are closer than one may think.....

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2015746/posts

----------

