# MEMBERS EXPERIENCES > OVER 40 FORUM >  See a doc or not? (long)

## SpleenLSD

I'm a 41 year old male, 6'1" and typically 210-220 pounds with BF in the 16-20% range. I exercise regularly, mostly endurance sports (triathlon) with maybe 1-1.5 hours of strength training a week.

The issue is the last few years I've been feeling "down". It may be coincidental, but I've really started feeling my age after my vasectomy 5 years ago. Energy and libido have decreased a bit, BF has increased a bit despite regular exercise. Really when I feel it is during triathlon season when I'm prepping for half-Ironman distance which requires 10-15 hours of endurance work/week. I know that amount of cardio work will suppress Test production and I end up feeling more worn out than I want to, and certainly more worn out than training buddies of the same age/fitness. I'm thinking that T supplementation might help me recover better from my training efforts and just plain increase quality of life.

So I guess I could start looking for an endocrinologist or "anti-aging" doc for a licensed prescription based remedy to my current state of being. To be honest, I'm really only assuming I have a low or declining T since I've had no labs to back up my suspicions. 

On the other hand I have guys I train with who use and can get me steroids and it would certainly be a faster and more direct way to see if T supplementation would have a positive impact on my life. It's not like I'm not a miserable wreck or anything close to it, but I feel like I don't feel or perform as well as I used to in the not so distant past. These training buddies have given my positive reports about their own experiences.

In my mind I'd be doing a modest supplementation; maybe 250mg SUST every 7-10 days. I'm sure I'll see an athletic benefit but in the Clydesdale class (200+ pounds) I'll never challenge an elite triathlete. Honestly I just like being fit and having fun training/racing but it's way more fun when recovery is easier and I have more energy. I'm pretty much convinced that T supplementation is something I want to try; what I'm debating is if I really need to go through the whole song & dance with the medical establishment for what would appear to be modest supplementation. Thoughts?

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## spicyer

You really, really should do a blood test to KNOW for certain where your test levels are. If you are determined to give test a run without blood work, do yourself a favor and don't use Sust every 7-10 days, it is made to be ran ed/eod. You'd be better with Test E or C every week at 125mgs to start.

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## lovbyts

Go find a good endocrinologist. Your friends you train with will be jelous because you will be getting gear they only wish they could get. Also all your gear will be 100% legit, no worries about bunk gear or under dosed and if you have insurance it's only $5-$10 a month and they are paying hundreds. 

What makes more sense to you now?

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## HoRuS

Try your Doctor first. Depending on what country you are in, you may find a helpful willing Doctor. Endocrinologists in Australia are mostly useless for anything but diabetes.

Sustanon 250 is the usual course of treatment in Australia for TRT and the usual dose is 250mg every 3 weeks. This is the dose my old Doc started me on but I convinced her to increase it to 250mg every 14 days. If you can get 250mg of Sustanon every 10 days you should feel great.

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## lovbyts

> Try your Doctor first. Depending on what country you are in, you may find a helpful willing Doctor. Endocrinologists in Australia are mostly useless for anything but diabetes.
> 
> Sustanon 250 is the usual course of treatment in Australia for TRT and the usual dose is 250mg every 3 weeks. This is the dose my old Doc started me on but I convinced her to increase it to 250mg every 14 days. If you can get 250mg of Sustanon every 10 days you should feel great.


In the US it's just the opposite. The general doctor knows nothing about HRT/TRT and steroids /testosterone is a bad word. You might as well said Heroin to them. LOL

Endocrinologist at the only ones in the US who understand about HRT/TRT in the US besides longevity clinics but mostly they just push Test and HGH, they dont really care.

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## spicyer

You can search endlessly and get many opinions on sust use for trt. Its been 3-4 years since I used it, but I was trying weekly and the sides were so bad I was ready to stop. Several vets jumped in and said due to combination of short and long esthers it was better to use eod, I did and it worked. Now for regular trt I use Test E, long esther and I can use every 7 days without brutal sides.

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## SpleenLSD

> do yourself a favor and don't use Sust every 7-10 days, it is made to be ran ed/eod. You'd be better with Test E or C every week at 125mgs to start.


I thought the idea behind Sust was that by combining different a few different kinds of T with different esters they created a drug that had T delivered on a longer timeline depending on the half-life of each estered form? I read: "The advantage to this drug, according to the manufacturer, is that it can be injected once a month, and the different esters would provide different timed releases over that month."

I only bring this up because I would want to avoid frequent injection and minimize aromatization. I developed pubertal gynecomastia in my teens and I'm not up for going through that again. Surgery was expensive.

I think I will go see a doc. Is an endocrinologist the preferred route. I see ads for various "anti aging" docs but they make me suspicious. I feel like they're selling something.

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## lovbyts

> I thought the idea behind Sust was that by combining different a few different kinds of T with different esters they created a drug that had T delivered on a longer timeline depending on the half-life of each estered form? I read: "The advantage to this drug, according to the manufacturer, is that it can be injected once a month, and the different esters would provide different timed releases over that month."
> 
> I only bring this up because I would want to avoid frequent injection and minimize aromatization. I developed pubertal gynecomastia in my teens and I'm not up for going through that again. Surgery was expensive.
> 
> I think I will go see a doc. Is an endocrinologist the preferred route. I see ads for various "anti aging" docs but they make me suspicious. I feel like they're selling something.


Yes most of them are selling their own line of vitamins, try to convince you that you need monthly or ever couple of month blood cleansing and other things that will make them money.

Yes in the US the Endocrinologist seems to be the best route. Your general doc knows very little most of the time and as you said, the anti aging clinics are selling....

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## mŭsˈəl

> In the US it's just the opposite. The general doctor knows nothing about HRT/TRT and steroids /testosterone is a bad word. You might as well said Heroin to them. LOL
> 
> Endocrinologist at the only ones in the US who understand about HRT/TRT in the US besides longevity clinics but mostly they just push Test and HGH, they dont really care.


I agree. I tried a slew of MDs that did nothing and let my problems become more severe. When I found the right MD, it was not because I was referred to him by a prior MD. I started by looking at the AMA and AACE (American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists) websites convention and continuing education information. The MDs that teach about optimal supplementation for men are easy to identify by the descriptions of their CEU courses. Using their names, you can even find them on U-tube. I had expected to call one and ask for suggestions about MDs in my area that had completed the training, however I was surprised to find one of the more popular instructors is an MD in my city.

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## Vettester

> You really, really should do a blood test to KNOW for certain where your test levels are. If you are determined to give test a run without blood work, do yourself a favor and *don't use Sust every 7-10 days, it is made to be ran ed/eod.* You'd be better with Test E or C every week at 125mgs to start.


I think you're meaning Test Prop on this one. Sust has a combination of the different esters.

Agree with the BW. The OP should be doing this before taking any additional steps.

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## ScotchGuard02

All good advice. You should at least get started with an endo. Once you get get more educated about blood work numbers and doses you could probably self medicate. I think your endo will help you greatly at this point.

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## FTLdude

> I'm pretty much convinced that T supplementation is something I want to try; what I'm debating is if I really need to go through the whole song & dance with the medical establishment for what would appear to be modest supplementation. Thoughts?



As a professional in the medical field myself I can tell you that although endos specialize in this area, all GPs know enough about anabolic steroids to prescribe pretty much the same T replacement treatment as any endo. Its just that, in many cases, some prefer not to, and they will try to discourage you by giving you the canned lecture about dangerous sides. For some, its a money-making thing and the "song and dance" are a way to give you only so much (but never enough) replacement so you have to keep coming back and pay again and again. But a part of it is also CYA because if they put you on steroids they have to have the clinical justification for it for the insurance companies (where applicable) and for LE if they are audited. Others just don't want the hassle with the DEA. If you are a doctor who writes a lot of scripts for large doses of anabolic supplements (the types of doses that most guys over 40 probably need) you will likely end up under the microscope just as much as you would be if you write large numbers and doses of scripts for narcs. Nothing illegal about it but there IS such a thing as too much as far as LE is concerned. They do track these prescriptions, and in some cases they have placed conditions on some physicians' licenses that limit the amount of certain classes of drugs that they can prescribe within a given time period. If you google it, you will find that LE is cracking down on many pain/HRT clinics in certain states where a lot of these places have popped up like candy stores in recent years. So, again its a matter of CYA. 

But, there is usually a way around most obstacles---if you are patient and if you look hard enough. Prison time and loss of a medical/nursing license aren't very appealing---but money always is! There are docs and nurses who work the HR clinic scene who undertstand exactly what you want. These are the ones who are extremely discrete about how they conduct their business and can provide you with real private label 'vitamins' akin to the stuff we're talking about here. You just have to know where to look, though most probably wouldn't take you as that type of client unless you are referred by someone they know and trust. A few have been busted, but there are others out there. 

I know nothing, admit to nothing, and deny everything. Just sayin' ...

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## Far from massive

I would definately go ahead and get lab work done, you can either go through your doctor / HRT clinic for the tests, or if you are a US resident just google personal lab tests and you can find companies that you just ask for the tests you want and then they will send you to a local lab and then you can view your results and post them on here for the experts to commentate on. You can get test free and total FSH and Estrogen levels for a couple hundred bucks and it only take a couple of days whereas going to your local doc and getting a refferal etc can take weeks.

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## sirupate

> As a professional in the medical field myself I can tell you that although endos specialize in this area, all GPs know enough about anabolic steroids to prescribe pretty much the same T replacement treatment as any endo. Its just that, in many cases, some prefer not to, and they will try to discourage you by giving you the canned lecture about dangerous sides. For some, its a money-making thing and the "song and dance" are a way to give you only so much (but never enough) replacement so you have to keep coming back and pay again and again. But a part of it is also CYA because if they put you on steroids they have to have the clinical justification for it for the insurance companies (where applicable) and for LE if they are audited. Others just don't want the hassle with the DEA. If you are a doctor who writes a lot of scripts for large doses of anabolic supplements (the types of doses that most guys over 40 probably need) you will likely end up under the microscope just as much as you would be if you write large numbers and doses of scripts for narcs. Nothing illegal about it but there IS such a thing as too much as far as LE is concerned. They do track these prescriptions, and in some cases they have placed conditions on some physicians' licenses that limit the amount of certain classes of drugs that they can prescribe within a given time period. If you google it, you will find that LE is cracking down on many pain/HRT clinics in certain states where a lot of these places have popped up like candy stores in recent years. So, again its a matter of CYA. 
> 
> But, there is usually a way around most obstacles---if you are patient and if you look hard enough. Prison time and loss of a medical/nursing license aren't very appealing---but money always is! There are docs and nurses who work the HR clinic scene who undertstand exactly what you want. These are the ones who are extremely discrete about how they conduct their business and can provide you with real private label 'vitamins' akin to the stuff we're talking about here. You just have to know where to look, though most probably wouldn't take you as that type of client unless you are referred by someone they know and trust. A few have been busted, but there are others out there. 
> 
> I know nothing, admit to nothing, and deny everything. Just sayin' ...


That post was helpful to me. That may explain why my endo has been so cautious with the process. I knew that testosterone was controlled, but didn't appreciate how much scrutiny the doctors may be under these days. Thanks, 

sirp

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## MRNJ1992

Check your t levels. From experience with hrt, when your t is low your drive to do anything is shot. My total t is 117 and my doc has me waiting another month till bw. Good luck

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## Vettester

> Check your t levels. From experience with hrt, when your t is low your drive to do anything is shot. My total t is 117 and my doc has me waiting another month till bw. Good luck


Being this thread is going on 2 years old, I'm sure the OP has resolved it.

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