# GENERAL FORUM > IN THE NEWS >  Obama!!!

## brad1986

Any thoughts or opinions? When you saw the title of this thread whats the first thing that came to mind?? 

for me-imbicile

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## wmaousley

President of the United States of America, Commander & Chief of the US Armed Forces, First African-American President, Has a sexy wife, Beats the hell out of either Bush, Pioneer of Americas 2025 Space Program to Mars, Walks out of meetings when people don't listen, Has a Blackberry, Aging well. 

 :Wink:

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## brad1986

wow an obama fan?? I need a picture of this lmao. Just kidding man. I want to say he was better than bush but part of me disagrees. Bush made stupid choices with the knowlege he had. I think obama just lacked/lacks knowlege and makes stupid suggestions according to his ignorance. Not trying to get in a political war on here just interested to see what people have to say. Because alot of democrats dislike obama now

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## gixxerboy1

i figured it was going to be a thread bashing.
I think Obama was a better choice then McCain.
I dont agree with some of his ideas, some i do.
I wish he knew how to negotiate better.
I believe he is alot smarter then Bush.

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## Twist

More Obama hating.



> i figured it was going to be a thread bashing.
> I think Obama was a better choice then McCain.
> I dont agree with some of his ideas, some i do.
> I wish he knew how to negotiate better.
> He is alot smarter then Bush.


 Fixed and 100% agree.




> wow an obama fan?? I need a picture of this lmao. Just kidding man. I want to say he was better than bush but part of me disagrees*wow lol*. Bush made stupid choices with the knowlege he had*If by knowledge you mean not knowing anything and making up entire accusations based completely on fabricated evidence to make money for his rich firends then I agree*. I think obama just lacked/lacks knowlege and makes stupid suggestions according to his ignorance*lmao*. Not trying to get in a political war on here just interested to see what people have to say. Because alot of democrats dislike obama now*yeah because he negotiates with these complete morons to try to save this country from a double dip (not that we left the first)*

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## brad1986

Look i think obama is a d.b and i believe buch was too. But Obama has def gotten to the point where I think he needs to go! I dont claim demo or republican because I think both parties have idiots that run/get ellected for president and both have good and bad points on things but I was interested as to what the majority on this board feel about the subject. Thanks for input guys

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## ravid32

the first thing that came to my mind.................. Ron Paul 2012  :Smilie:

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## Twist

Ron Paul will never get elected because he is too easily defeated.

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## RaginCajun

obama = vacation and golf on our tax dollars!!!

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## DeniZen

I voted for Obama cuz of the "change" thing. Turns out to be BS. Same old shit different colored prez. Us-against-them mentality prevails again! Meanwhile the country is circling the drain...

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## Tigershark

My first thought:
When do we get a new president?
He has broken every campaighn promise he has offered. 
The economy is still fvcked.
Unemployemnt is still at an all time high. Do not believe what the news says about the rate going down. The only reason the numbers look lower is because peoples benefits are drying up.
I am a Corrections Officer at a county jail. Every week I see new people come in on charges that will keep them locked up for a few weeks because they are freakng homeless and have np job and can not find work. They are usually older and can not afford thier perscriptions anymore and get free medical care when the are locked up.
Now you tell me how Obama has fixed any freaking thing when our seniors are willing to face assault or even worse rape just to get 3 meals a day and the medications they need to survive. Please tell me how Obama has fixed this? I am willing to listen.

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## zaggahamma

uh....

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## Twist

A little devil's advocate?




> obama = vacation and golf on our tax dollars!!!


"So far, President Obama has taken 61 vacation days after 31 months in office. At this point in their presidencies, George W. Bush had spent 180 days at his ranch where his staff often joined him for meetings. And Ronald Reagan had taken 112 vacation days at his ranch.

Among recent presidents, Bill Clinton took the least time off -- 28 days."

Bush held the least amount of press conferences in history btw. Can't shoot down Obama for something that is minor compared to the alternatives. 




> I voted for Obama cuz of the "change" thing. Turns out to be BS. Same old shit different colored prez. Us-against-them mentality prevails again! Meanwhile the country is circling the drain...


Clinton = surplus --> Bush = recession (twice) --> Obama = slow but steady improvement (record corporate profits, lower unemployment etc) --> Republican congress = downgrade, immediate slow of economy, talks of double dip increase
This is super broad and I'm not gonna argue each individual statement because if you can't see the pattern you are blind. 




> My first thought:
> When do we get a new president? *Vote in 2012! Ron Paul? (never but we can hope)*
> He has broken every campaighn promise he has offered. *Not really, he did what he can. He's been blocked all along the way. So if you are upset about this then you have to be upset that he was blocked along the way. You can't support Republicans while also complaining about him not getting things done. Not that you are, just pointing that out*
> The economy is still fvcked. * We WERE doing better... Thank you Congress*
> Unemployemnt is still at an all time high. Do not believe what the news says about the rate going down. The only reason the numbers look lower is because peoples benefits are drying up. *There are many signs of a recovery (70% of companies on the S&P beat expectations - I think I remembered that right), unemployment was up. Not 100% better (or even close), but it was going up and more importantly companies and people were starting to feel stable. After they feel stable then they start hiring. Now they won't start hiring or expanding because of uncertainty. The new congress that gets along with nobody is what is making them feel uncertain. Also temps get hired first before those seeking jobs. I have a lot of friends who were temps and they all got hired now. Actually one is still a temp though.* 
> I am a Corrections Officer at a county jail. Every week I see new people come in on charges that will keep them locked up for a few weeks because they are freakng homeless and have np job and can not find work. They are usually older and can not afford thier perscriptions anymore and get free medical care when the are locked up.*Screwed up. Very screwed up. If we all had healthcare this wouldn't be a problem*
> Now you tell me how Obama has fixed any freaking thing when our seniors are willing to face assault or even worse rape just to get 3 meals a day and the medications they need to survive. Please tell me how Obama has fixed this? I am willing to listen.
> [B]No way people who wouldn't normally rape someone are going to start committing rapes so they can get healthcare in jail lol. But I see what you are saying.


If I had another alternative to Obama I would vote for them. Look at the potential candidates for presidency though... We're left with no choice.

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## wmaousley

> obama = vacation and golf on our tax dollars!!!


US Tax dollars funded many of my previous vacations all over the world, whats the problem?

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## Hitman Heimler

To answer your question: First thing that came to mind was... What about Obama? :P

To ramble: I was not happy with either selection of candidates. I haven't been an Obama fan, but some things that are changing I was not aware were going to. I first off don't belive that there is going to be a president that will "change" the country. I really feel likes it's everyone inside of this country that needs to change. We used to be lions, and now we are lambs; I hope that anology gets understood. People of today are asking what the government can do for them, instead of trying to see what they can do for the country (yes, that was Kennedy :Wink:  Obama could speak, unlike Bush, and that is important for any leader to have. Yes he isn't changing the world, but I've realised he is changing the way politicians operate to some degree, if you will.

I never thought I'd see a president with a twitter account! I actually think that the government needed someone to show that it's ok to be new age. I think that this will help younger people become more governmentally concerned, which has always been hard to accomplish. He is at least changing the face (and I don't mean the color) of what a president can be. He seems more connected with todays scene, and I think that's important. Every President is going to look like a tard at some point, but I mean come on, we need to be able to watch those youtube videos over and over again to keep us laughing:P

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## zaggahamma

> To answer your question: First thing that came to mind was... What about Obama? :P
> 
> To ramble: I was not happy with either selection of candidates. I haven't been an Obama fan, but some things that are changing I was not aware were going to. I first off don't belive that there is going to be a president that will "change" the country. I really feel likes it's everyone inside of this country that needs to change. We used to be lions, and now we are lambs; I hope that anology gets understood. People of today are asking what the government can do for them, instead of trying to see what they can do for the country (yes, that was Kennedy Obama could speak, unlike Bush, and that is important for any leader to have. Yes he isn't changing the world, but I've realised he is changing the way politicians operate to some degree, if you will.
> 
> I never thought I'd see a president with a twitter account! I actually think that the government needed someone to show that it's ok to be new age. I think that this will help younger people become more governmentally concerned, which has always been hard to accomplish. He is at least changing the face (and I don't mean the color) of what a president can be. He seems more connected with todays scene, and I think that's important. Every President is going to look like a tard at some point, but I mean come on, we need to be able to watch those youtube videos over and over again to keep us laughing:P


good post/point of view 

agree with a lot...

never really understood why ppl think he's such a good speaker...cuz he looks casual/nonchalant...it seems as if he uses "uh" between many words in the speaches i've heard....anyone else notice this?

but yes i like the change within motto...maybe a prez candidate will run with that one

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## Hitman Heimler

yeah he does use "uh" a lot. I understand it happens, but it does make me laugh that he stumbles as hard as Bush does during interviews. Lol it happens to them all. It was interesting that Trump was interested to run, but i know he won't. How would he take care of the country and his businesses.

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## zaggahamma

> yeah he does use "uh" a lot. I understand it happens, but it does make me laugh that he stumbles as hard as Bush does during interviews. Lol it happens to them all. It was interesting that Trump was interested to run, but i know he won't. How would he take care of the country and his businesses.


i agree about trump....think he would do a helluva job but believe the MAIN reason he wont is because like you even statedthe president doesnt really have all the power and his hands would be tied to an extent where he may not be able to accomplish what he would be willing to do...he would be working for us and not himself...if he did i think it would be a very selfless and patriotic move

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## Twist

Donald Trump... Might as well throw in Sarah Palin as VP

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## SoCalSurfinPal

Reagan Vs. Obama, or Capitalism vs. Socialism

As Reagan often said, and as the magnet on my refrigerator reads: Government is the problem not the solution. And he understood the solution to a recession was not more government but more capitalism. Inflation dropped from 13.5% in 1980 to 4.1% in 1988. Interest rates fell from 18% in 1981 to 8% in 1987. Unemployment went from nearly 10% during Reagan's first year to 5.5% when he left office. The Reagan economic plan created millions of jobs and trillions of dollars in wealth.

Reagan inherited a worse unemployment rate than obama and brought america back to prosperity!!! 

Obama's $787 billion stimulus plan was supposed to keep unemployment from exceeding 8%. Today, four months after the bill’s passage, unemployment is nearly 10%. And virtually all employment growth has occurred in the federal government, much of which includes temporary census jobs. In addition, Obama's budgets will result this year in a record-breaking $1.56 trillion deficit, beating even last year’s then unprecedented $1.41 trillion gap, and this does not include "emergency" spending bills to cover Medicare reimbursements to doctors, mortgage assistance, and further unemployment compensation.

Obama's conclusion for everything is more spending!!! How can you back him. His health care plan and gov't ideas are in place in England! Have you seen the riots going on out there?! Are you really trying to follow in their footsteps?

It is being said that if we ratify a 4 trillion dollar budget we will not be able to grow our way out of debt. The interest alone would be enough to pay for the entire chinese gov't. Many people are saying we are going to literally spend our selves into oblivion, not in our kids twilight, but in our near future.. 2025! Everything Obama has done has pushed us further and further into a recession! you need 2.5% GDP to maintain the current levels of unemployment, our last quarter was .4%! People think Obama is this great leader, and that he is "too smart" for the job. I think this is an uneducated presumption! Whats funny is the democrats are starting to turn on him! But hey he is in the public eye a lot and making everyone feel great about America. You know who else was in the public eye a lot and made his country feel comfortable with the moves they was making? Hitler...

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## zaggahamma

> Reagan Vs. Obama, or Capitalism vs. Socialism
> 
> As Reagan often said, and as the magnet on my refrigerator reads: Government is the problem not the solution. And he understood the solution to a recession was not more government but more capitalism. Inflation dropped from 13.5% in 1980 to 4.1% in 1988. Interest rates fell from 18% in 1981 to 8% in 1987. Unemployment went from nearly 10% during Reagan's first year to 5.5% when he left office. The Reagan economic plan created millions of jobs and trillions of dollars in wealth.
> 
> Reagan inherited a worse unemployment rate than obama and brought america back to prosperity!!! 
> 
> Obama's $787 billion stimulus plan was supposed to keep unemployment from exceeding 8%. Today, four months after the bill’s passage, unemployment is nearly 10%. And virtually all employment growth has occurred in the federal government, much of which includes temporary census jobs. In addition, Obama's budgets will result this year in a record-breaking $1.56 trillion deficit, beating even last year’s then unprecedented $1.41 trillion gap, and this does not include "emergency" spending bills to cover Medicare reimbursements to doctors, mortgage assistance, and further unemployment compensation.
> 
> Obama's conclusion for everything is more spending!!! How can you back him. His health care plan and gov't ideas are in place in England! Have you seen the riots going on out there?! Are you really trying to follow in their footsteps?
> ...


good post....do you think the answer lies just in giving oblama walking papers after his 4 and replacing with any/either of the candidates?

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## Twist

> Reagan Vs. Obama, or Capitalism vs. Socialism
> 
> As Reagan often said, and as the magnet on my refrigerator reads: Government is the problem not the solution. And he understood the solution to a recession was not more government but more capitalism. Inflation dropped from 13.5% in 1980 to 4.1% in 1988. Interest rates fell from 18% in 1981 to 8% in 1987. Unemployment went from nearly 10% during Reagan's first year to 5.5% when he left office. The Reagan economic plan created millions of jobs and trillions of dollars in wealth.
> 
> Reagan inherited a worse unemployment rate than obama and brought america back to prosperity!!! 
> 
> Obama's $787 billion stimulus plan was supposed to keep unemployment from exceeding 8%. Today, four months after the bill’s passage, unemployment is nearly 10%. And virtually all employment growth has occurred in the federal government, much of which includes temporary census jobs. In addition, Obama's budgets will result this year in a record-breaking $1.56 trillion deficit, beating even last year’s then unprecedented $1.41 trillion gap, and this does not include "emergency" spending bills to cover Medicare reimbursements to doctors, mortgage assistance, and further unemployment compensation.
> 
> Obama's conclusion for everything is more spending!!! How can you back him. His health care plan and gov't ideas are in place in England! Have you seen the riots going on out there?! Are you really trying to follow in their footsteps?
> ...


All your arguments are based on false information and then you attack that as if it is truth. I will say this:
It appears as if most people forget what actually caused the issues we are dealing with now. Think back to where this started, where this originated and what the result is now. I'll give you a hint, it wasn't regulation.

The fact that you compare Obama to Hitler shows your knowledge of the matters. I wish there was a better alternative to Obama too but that is not what we are given at the moment.

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## SoCalSurfinPal

JPK:
I think that is what essentially is happening. The big labour organizations are no longer backing Obama. He has lost the support of some of his greatest campaign contributors. It is scary to think he is too liberal for the ultra liberals. I wish I knew what to do. I think Donald Trump would be better business wise, but president... YIKES! I'm at a loss. Unfortunately I'm not a politician. I think I could help build a better America. 

- A boss once told me "the trick to success is never be afraid to hire someone smarter than you..." 

Twist:

I didn't get too heavy into everything, regulations have hurt our economy severely. We are loosing more and more jobs to offshore accounts. But this isn't nearly as severe as the socialist ideals that have hurt this economy severely! For instance: 

The stimulus package. We spent 787 billion dollars without any thought of how we would pay for it. Sure 787 is a drop in the hat for America, but is has contributed tremendously to our 1.5 trillion dollar debt. Americans did not spend the money on supplemental items, but instead payed bills, save it; in fact American's spent less money!! 

We have been forced to take on Obama care. Correct me if i'm wrong, but America is suppose to say ya or nah on this. Not according to Obama. Consider 56% of the country was against this I would say it was pretty unconstitutional. Now I don't know if you read the fine print on this, but we are going to be taxed for this. Even though Obama says it won't cost the tax payer money, it is inevitable. These entitlement programs will bankrupt us! If we continue down this road by 2020 the only way America will be able to sustain would be for ALL foreign countries to have 20% of their GDP invested in American debt programs. This is not doable. 

Robin Hood tactics. When you tax the rich they stop spending. Ask anyone who is considered rich (250 g's a year or more is considered rich). You tax them more (They are proposing a tax of up to 75% of their income, sounds ridiculous, but research it...) they will spend less. What does this mean? They spend less at shopping malls. Gap can no longer increase their staff, and often times will have to reduce their staff. The person who was positively contributing to society is now taking unemployment. Less tax money from purchases, less tax money from the staff at Gap = less money to the gov't. Then the gov't tries to fix this with more taxes. Viscous cycle. 

Again fall back on what has worked in the past. Reagan was a great success, and he was an actor!! 

BTW: I compared Obama to Hitler b/c hitler gained the support of his people through continuously giving great speeches, and rallying them around an idea of centralized gov't and reachable perfection. Obama realizes what Hitler realized. Keep yourself in the public eye, and rally the troops can bring success. Also, do you have any information to the contrary? I'd like to see what part was not true.

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## Twist

Above is a great post SoCal and I am in 100% agreement with that^. I have heard some numbers at 50% for ultra rich and that makes no sense to me at all. Ultra rich can easily offshore or just move out. The stimulus packages were supposed to work but didn't do very well. However it looked as if we were going to go into something that was worse than the depression but managed to stay out of that range. It's hard to say exactly what did what but the tarp program was needed and did it's job however I have issues with that too. You did say taxing rich causes them to spend less but for the most part the rich are not the primary spenders used to stimulate the economy, the poor are. I'm still in agreement with you about taxing rich at outrageous rates will not work and shouldn't even be tried if it would work. 

Regulations are not what is hurting our economy. In fact, even with all of our regulations 70% of corporations on the S&P have beat they're earnings estimates; companies are not hurting at all. There are so many other factors at work that to say regulations are hurting the economy is ridiculous. Things like patent trolls are ruining our business entrepreneurs and stifling innovation. We can barely regulate things properly as they are which is a huge problem. Technology is outpacing the knowledge of our judges and most importantly our juries and screwing small businesses. We are moving toward Kings ruling the world but these Kings are renamed; CEO's. BP oil, the financial meltdown, illegal dumping in the amazon, polluting the air/water etc are things we should expect if corporations are deregulated. Our (the citizens of the US) wants simply do not align with the wants of corporations. If you deregulate the corporations they will screw the people first chance they get. They will cut costs on safety and they will pollute like crazy and mow over anything they please. They already do this as much as they can get away with. We need to cut A LOT but without regulation we will be screwed for sure. 

Obamacare: Health insurance companies are among the most corrupt out there. Down right evil looking to screw over people for pennies on the dollar, very often resulting in death. Now I have not personally read the Obamacare plan but I can say there is needed reform in the healthcare industry. Seeing as we provide everyone with healthcare anyway, there is no point in not mandating it. Poor just walk into the hospitals when they have a cold and cause not only long waits, but $700 tax payer tabs for a cold that could be taken care of for $20 in antibiotics. Hospitals do not turn people down! This means that everyone already gets care. We already have healthcare for everybody, the thing is we do it in the most inefficient manner. That's what needs to be changed. So unless you are saying that we should not allow people to get care when they don't have insurance and we should literally force them to sit out on the curb and die then you should be in favor of finding a better way to do it. 

Obama is losing support of many people not because he is too liberal, but because he is seen as not liberal enough and too easily persuaded. He bows down almost every chance he gets. He is also going to great lengths to not be a one-issue president. He doesn't want to be seen as a President for black people and want to be seen as a president for all people. This is angering his black base because he is not addressing things like the black to white wealth gap (which has widened by an amazing amount). He is also willing to compromise with republicans (although they are not) about issues and this is upsetting his base also. I will say this, when the republicans hate someone, and the democrats hate someone, it means he isn't working for either of them and the only people left is us. He really is trying and I can see that but this game is just impossible to play. 

As for offshore accounts: If you are suggesting that we eliminate free trade then I am not with you. Yes, we are losing companies to offshoring but this is inevitable. Putting up barriers to trade will hurt us. It's really a long explanation as to why but I will go into it if you want. The problem here is that we are giving companies tax breaks and stimulating the economy and all that companies are doing is holding onto cash and hiring outside the US. ATM we have given no reasons for companies to stay here and the competitive advantage is offshore so that is where production will move. We need incentives to stay here (not just offering money to them, we need competitive advantages like education) or else companies won't. You can't blame them. They have cut so many costs and they are making record profits never before seen they have no reason to stop that. Taxing them (what we do out of frustration) is not the answer either - they are talking about taxing companies for letting their cash just pile up to force them to do something with it, bad idea. 

Comparing Obama to Hitler: Giving great speeches and rallying them around an idea is how everybody comes to power, enter tea party. Obama doesn't = socialism. Sorry but that's just not true. We already have universal healthcare we just manage it poorly (see above). 

The situation with Reagan and Obama is different. Times now are so much more complicated than they were back then with the increasing technology. Right now our banking systems are so complicated that regulators cannot figure it out. These really are uncharted waters and are not comparable. You make a change (like deregulate banking... again) and companies will screw us all over again. It worked out fine for them anyway. 

*As to your first post:* I'm gonna try and go through it quickly cuz I am so tired of typing.
1. I addressed Reagan comparison earlier, Comparing Republicans to democrats - see post #13 second paragraph.
2. What is happening in London is not a result of universal healthcare or socialist ideals lol.
3. Obama might have saved us from going into another Great Depression, we don't know. His increased spending was necessary in the eyes of many experts. The spending prevented us from hitting rock bottom. I can't say whether that is good or bad. He also spent less than Bush did anyway so I can't see the argument. Sure we are at .4% growth now but as soon as the republicans took congress we crapped out. All positivity in the marketplace vanished. It's a game for them and we are pawns. If you can't see that idk what help I can be. 
4. Donald Trump = will do everything he can for big business making millions and millions and screwing over the American People and then he will move away and leave a(nother) mess for us to clean up. Hmmm... Sounds like the last president we had.

Here's a graph that depicts our deficit. Just look and see how much of that is caused by Obama.
Attachment 116778

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## gixxerboy1

^^^ very good post. I agree 

Also the attachment wouldnt work for me

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## Twist

> ^^^ very good post. I agree 
> 
> Also the attachment wouldnt work for me


Idk how to fix it lol. It's just a pie graph from wallstreet journal or NYT, I forgot which place I got it. Basically shows that everything related to our deficit is Bush's fault lol.

11 people died and 120 people seriously sick after a company filled two giant containers that used to contain anti-feeze with vinegar bound for a restaurant feast to conclude Ramadan. This was in China. This is what you get when you deregulate big business. This was Monday I think. there are plenty more examples of what happens when you defund the watch dogs.

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## CMB

My opinion on obama: (where can I start lol?)

He needs to get out of office in this next election. Anybody else who says he is doing a good job should be put on a rope. Although, when I hear "the recession is obama's fault" I sigh and walk away at the plague of stupidity. 

Now it's ludicris to say that the reason the economy is in bad shape is because of obama, that's stupid. 2008 was the true downfall of america if you ask me. A great example would be this shopping mall right down the street from my house. It was being built in 2007, and halfway through the project (2008) they halted all production and now half the buildings are either Vacant, or just plain going out of business.

In addition, democrats seem to like spending. Hmmm, let's see here, we have a 14 TRILLION (yes, you read that correctly) debt deficit. YOU DON'T SPEND MORE IF YOU HAVE NO MONEY! It doesn't take a politician to figure that one out. Also, the solution is not to tax the rich, this will only create more problems. The rich ones are the type of people that run businesses and hire other citizens to work. Tax the rich, they stop hiring.

Equally important is how the U.S. likes to just "give" money to everyone under the sun. I read an article recently showing how of our 14 trillion dollar deficit only 4 or 5 billion is actually owed overseas (China and Brazil are the two biggest). The remaining sum is actually owed by the citizens of the US! Medicare, medicade, social security, all need to be reformed. It is just not possible for us to sustain everyone with free healthcare and retirement, just not realistic. 


I don't know about you guys, but I'm sure as hell sick of this damn recession. The sooner we get out, the better. Obama isn't mitigating the situation as any good president should, and I'll leave it at that. 

Peace guys.

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## Twist

I will probably end up voting for Obama again because we are left with a republican party that is filled with nut jobs.

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## zaggahamma

> I will probably end up voting for Obama again because we are left with a republican party that is filled with nut jobs.


what is the major beliefs that the GOP share or individually that give you this feeling

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## gixxerboy1

> My opinion on obama: (where can I start lol?)
> 
> He needs to get out of office in this next election. Anybody else who says he is doing a good job should be put on a rope. Although, when I hear "the recession is obama's fault" I sigh and walk away at the plague of stupidity. 
> 
> Now it's ludicris to say that the reason the economy is in bad shape is because of obama, that's stupid. 2008 was the true downfall of america if you ask me. A great example would be this shopping mall right down the street from my house. It was being built in 2007, and halfway through the project (2008) they halted all production and now half the buildings are either Vacant, or just plain going out of business.
> 
> In addition, democrats seem to like spending. Hmmm, let's see here, we have a 14 TRILLION (yes, you read that correctly) debt deficit. YOU DON'T SPEND MORE IF YOU HAVE NO MONEY! It doesn't take a politician to figure that one out. Also, the solution is not to tax the rich, this will only create more problems. The rich ones are the type of people that run businesses and hire other citizens to work. Tax the rich, they stop hiring.
> 
> Equally important is how the U.S. likes to just "give" money to everyone under the sun. I read an article recently showing how of our 14 trillion dollar deficit only 4 or 5 billion is actually owed overseas (China and Brazil are the two biggest). The remaining sum is actually owed by the citizens of the US! Medicare, medicade, social security, all need to be reformed. It is just not possible for us to sustain everyone with free healthcare and retirement, just not realistic. 
> ...


Yes the rich may run businesses but they are not going to hire someone because their personal tax goes up. That is the biggest bs thing i keep hearing. Alot of the rich when you figure out their final tax rate after deductions and everything else are paying less then the middle class.

The middle class is who spends most of the money in the economy. Unfortunately the middle class doesn't have $$ so they atrent spending so there is no reason for business to hire. Why would you hire if you dont have the customers or business to support it.

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## Twist

> what is the major beliefs that the GOP share or individually that give you this feeling


With the current republicans:
Smaller Government = cut regulatory committees
Less taxes = for the corporations that put us here
Stop interfering overseas = unless we start the war
No gay marriage = oops I'm gay
No Obamacare = 75 minute wait in emergency rooms
No illegals = except if they clean our houses
This list can go on forever. They campaign on things that rally their base but the base has no idea about the real world implications of their campaign 'promises'.

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## Bonaparte

OP, if you're going to call someone an imbecile (especially a man as educated and accomplished as Obama), you may want to spell the word correctly.

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## Twist

LMAO. Can't believe I didn't catch that.

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## zaggahamma

wow going with spelling now...twist thanks for the point of view(s)

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## CMB

I just don't see how anyone can vote for obama, he is doing a terrible job. If you think he is doing a good job, just look around.

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## Twist

I wouldn't say he is doing a good job either. I would say he is doing a better job than Bush did (by a million) and I would say the rest of our choices suck. I think Obama needs to stop compromising (but he can't) and I think democrats in general need to stop the bleeding heart bs and cut spending. We need complete reform in just about every aspect of society I can think of.

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## gixxerboy1

> I just don't see how anyone can vote for obama, he is doing a terrible job. If you think he is doing a good job, just look around.


but he is the lesser of 2 evils.

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## CMB

> but he is the lesser of 2 evils.


That MIGHT have been true in the 08 election, but for sure not in the 2012 election. Just no possible way he is fit for the job, he has showed us this is in past 4 years.

Anybody remember that (and I use this term loosely) "stimulus" package? Well, I believe it cost upwards of 789 billion dollars, and it failed. You can't blame everything on obama that would just be ignorant, but the fault is his for failed stimulus. He endorsed it and rammed the bill through congress and the senate just so nothing would come out of it. Shameful that he is allowed to f*ck up like that and remain in office.

----------


## CMB

> I wouldn't say he is doing a good job either. I would say he is doing a better job than Bush did (by a million) and I would say the rest of our choices suck. I think Obama needs to stop compromising (but he can't) and I think democrats in general need to stop the bleeding heart bs and cut spending. We need complete reform in just about every aspect of society I can think of.


Bush is in the past, leave him there nothing he can do to change the situation we are in now. And actually for that matter, things were going a little better (not good), when bush was in office. In addition, I do believe you are correct though. It is time for a radical change in America. The sooner the better.

----------


## gixxerboy1

> That MIGHT have been true in the 08 election, *but for sure not in the 2012 election.* Just no possible way he is fit for the job, he has showed us this is in past 4 years.
> 
> Anybody remember that (and I use this term loosely) "stimulus" package? Well, I believe it cost upwards of 789 billion dollars, and it failed. You can't blame everything on obama that would just be ignorant, but the fault is his for failed stimulus. He endorsed it and rammed the bill through congress and the senate just so nothing would come out of it. Shameful that he is allowed to f*ck up like that and remain in office.


depends on who get the gop nomination. 
I'd give it to Obama for 8 more years then Rick Perry for 1 year

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## Twist

> Bush is in the past, leave him there nothing he can do to change the situation we are in now. And actually for that matter, things were going a little better (not good), when bush was in office. In addition, I do believe you are correct though. It is time for a radical change in America. The sooner the better.


We are still paying through the nose for the last republican nomination so to me it is not in the past. It is not something we are over yet so still relevant. Not to mention that the candidates we have now are quite possibly worse than Bush. The problem with Bush is that he sold our country out and knew it. The problem with the new candidates is that they are going to sell our country out and they are too stupid to even realize it. They have created a lie and rallied so many people on it that they have now come to believe it. 




> depends on who get the gop nomination. 
> I'd give it to Obama for 8 more years then Rick Perry for 1 year


 Agreed completely. I saw a good breakdown on the candidates on Wallstreet Journal, I'll see if I can find it again.

----------


## CMB

> We are still paying through the nose for the last republican nomination so to me it is not in the past. It is not something we are over yet so still relevant. Not to mention that the candidates we have now are quite possibly worse than Bush. The problem with Bush is that he sold our country out and knew it. The problem with the new candidates is that they are going to sell our country out and they are too stupid to even realize it. They have created a lie and rallied so many people on it that they have now come to believe it.


Yeah, definitely correct there. We are still paying for it. However, its not fair to blame this crisis just on bush. Lets give him some credit, 9/11 and operation iraqi freedom would have been hard to ANY president to handle if you ask me. I'm just tired of hearing people rank on bush, not that they are incorrect, but rather that was 4 years ago. Its just time that we realize that radical change needs to be made. Why? Because radical situations call for it. 

I like this thread it isn't politcal bashing but actual sensible input. Any luck with that wallstreet journal, twist?

----------


## Twist

I agree those situations are difficult. My position is that if another president (Obama, Hillary, Clinton) was in office that we would have never entered these un-winnable wars in the first place. My position on these wars is that Bush is not to blame at all, Cheney is to blame. Cheney secretly ran the whole country, Bush was just a face. You also must understand that Cheney and other white house cronies had a tremendous amount of monetary gain by entering this war. Illegal contracts were given out to companies with direct ties to the white house. The most common example is Halliburton which was given an illegal no-bid contract milking the government for 17billion dollars between 2003-2006. They were given this contract (a 5 year contract btw) a month before an invasion. Cheney ran this company before stepping down to be VP for Bush. Oh and Halliburton pays Cheney $1million per year as part of his severance package. Cheney denied involvement in this which was later proven false by Time magazine. In the end the whistleblowers were fired... 

This is how the presidency worked: certain affiliates create services that are unique to the conflict that will arise and because of this when said conflict arises they are the most logical company to contract out to. Keep in mind that this is all explained by the government in certain ways. In fact, in many instances it seems rational and I would doubt my thoughts on the matter if it weren't for the undeniable connections between the groups prospering and the people calling the shots. Now because Obama, Hillary, Gore, Bill etc don't have these connections then I doubt such contracts would be made and the war would have turned out completely differently. 

The underlying interests of candidates has to be looked at. Take Bachman for example: her husband runs some type of church thing in which he tries to convince gay people that they are not gay and tries to get them to change their ways. Although his wife distances herself from this a little bit you can bet that if she became president there would be a fight about reenacting the don't ask don't tell policy and I'm willing to bet there would be a huge uproar about gay marriage in states. THis is not something I care about nor do I wish for our tax dollars to be spent on this. This is nothing compared to the ties Cheney had with Halliburton but I am trying to make a distinction between the underlying interests of people and how they choose to rule. The point I'm trying to get across is that Obama doesn't have an underlying agenda. Giving people healthcare is really not a bad thing when you consider what the other candidates chose to fight about. The minute I start seeing the corporations taking sides with Democrats as they have with republicans I will switch sides. I'm pissed at Obama for sure because I thought he would do something about the tax system and healthcare and the way schools are run but he didn't. He's still better than the alternatives...

Can't find the WSJ article. It was an article in marketwatch and I can't remember the title so have no idea what to search for. If I come across another one I will post it up. The good thing about this one was that there was the article and following it was a commentary post that basically compared each republican to Bush. So for example it said something like Perry is Bush 2.0 because of xyz. It wasn't bashing though it was just comparing the two.

----------


## Twist

BTW I think Bachman's husband is gay or bi but that is my pure speculation.

----------


## yogiart

> obama = vacation and golf on our tax dollars!!!


You probably meant "Bush" Not Obama here

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## yogiart

> A little devil's advocate?
> 
> 
> "So far, President Obama has taken 61 vacation days after 31 months in office. At this point in their presidencies, George W. Bush had spent 180 days at his ranch where his staff often joined him for meetings. And Ronald Reagan had taken 112 vacation days at his ranch.
> 
> Among recent presidents, Bill Clinton took the least time off -- 28 days."
> 
> Bush held the least amount of press conferences in history btw. Can't shoot down Obama for something that is minor compared to the alternatives. 
> 
> ...


This guy speaks very well and has been studying!!
I understand that slow but steady improvements is frustrating for many especially for those who have been struggling to survive in their daily lives but it is the only way here, there is no quantum leaps. We are cleaning up an old fvcked up system and it has to be done one thing at a time. It will be even slower when you have political power struggle issues.

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## zaggahamma

> This guy speaks very well and has been studying!!
> I understand that slow but steady improvements is frustrating for many especially for those who have been struggling to survive in their daily lives but it is the only way here, there is no quantum leaps. We are cleaning up an old fvcked up system and it has to be done one thing at a time. It will be even slower when you have political power struggle issues.


 what are our worst political power struggles.....solyndra accountability/involvement, fast and furious festivities, .....

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## Armykid93

I dont want to be disrespectful to the commander in chief but, My family owned a car business, while Bush was in office we sold lots and lots of cars, at all different price ranges. When President Obama start campaigning for his presidency there was a lot of America Bashing in my opinion and our business began to slow dramatically, hes caused people to lose faith in our country. I believe hes doing the best job he can BUT now because of him my family has lost their business and will soon lose our house. I love this country and no matter what the numbers are still think its the greatest country on earth to be in. I dont think we need to go back to the way things used to be cuz in my opinion America has gone soft.

I am a Repulican and I liked president Bush but I know that being the president is not an easy job and honestly I feel bad for Obama, I dont think he new what he was getting into honestly cuz hes a smart person. Hes very educated but his ideas just havent worked.

One last edit to lol sorry but make sure you guys are looking threw all kinds of news. If you normally go to FOX try CNN and vice versa, thats why I do because I really do try to get the whole story, media is incredibly biast.

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## zaggahamma

> I dont want to be disrespectful to the commander in chief but, My family owned a car business, while Bush was in office we sold lots and lots of cars, at all different price ranges. When President Obama start campaigning for his presidency there was a lot of America Bashing in my opinion and our business began to slow dramatically, *hes caused people to lose faith in our country*. I believe hes doing the best job he can BUT now because of him my family has lost their business and will soon lose our house. I love this country and no matter what the numbers are still think its the greatest country on earth to be in. I dont think we need to go back to the way things used to be cuz in my opinion America has gone soft.
> 
> I am a Repulican and I liked president Bush but I know that being the president is not an easy job and honestly I feel bad for Obama, I dont think he new what he was getting into honestly cuz hes a smart person. Hes very educated but his ideas just havent worked.
> 
> One last edit to lol sorry but make sure you guys are looking threw all kinds of news. If you normally *go to FOX try CNN and vice versa, thats why I do because I really do try to get the whole story, media is incredibly biast.*




i do this as well and you made some excellent points except a lil kind on obamma i bolded why i believe so

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## Armykid93

haha thanks. People get so angry when others disagree with them but thats just politics. Both parties have flaws. But from my life experience, what ive actually seen i do not think he was better than Bush. We kept records before we went out of business of all our sales, we actually hired someone to graph them for us to see if there was a pattern, trying to figure out what we were doing wrong and I kid you not 85% of the days obama gave a speech we did not sell a car.

This was most prevelant during his campaign and held true all threw out his presidency so far. My family has now had to file bankruptcy and we have lost our business. Not asking for sympathy or nothin but facts are facts and my family got screwed.

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## spywizard

> President of the United States of America, Commander & Chief of the US Armed Forces, First African-American President, Has a sexy wife, Beats the hell out of either Bush, Pioneer of Americas 2025 Space Program to Mars, Walks out of meetings when people don't listen, Has a Blackberry, Aging well.


 and $15,000,000,000,000 trillion in debt, fraud and corruption at all levels...

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## Armykid93

I loved President Bush, thought he was a great man.

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## wmaousley

> and $15,000,000,000,000 trillion in debt, fraud and corruption at all levels...


15 Trillion in Debt which was started by Bush, Obama never put americans in this debt, Bush did. Are you 12

----------


## supersize me

At what point do people stop blaming President Bush for Obama's problems, when nothing beneficial has come forth from Obama's administration his entire presidency?

We get it, you inherited some issues. I'm pretty sure President Reagan did as well, but look what he did during his presidency.

----------


## AllAmerican-PCS

Same shit different asshole!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## Coolhand5599

> any thoughts or opinions? When you saw the title of this thread whats the first thing that came to mind?? 
> 
> For me-imbicile


sucks

----------


## Coolhand5599

> 15 Trillion in Debt which was started by Bush, Obama never put americans in this debt, Bush did. Are you 12


Are fricking mad! Obama has almost doubled the debt in three years. He is the biggest disaster in us history

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## zaggahamma

scary part is most hard working ppl dont like the concept of robbing peter to pay paul but we'll be up shits creek if there are more pauls

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## Coolhand5599

I will give you all financial advice to all of you free. Someone please tell this to any politician you can't spend your way out of debt! If you spend more than you make you will go broke. It really is that simple

----------


## thegodfather

> At what point do people stop blaming President Bush for Obama's problems, when nothing beneficial has come forth from Obama's administration his entire presidency?
> 
> We get it, you inherited some issues. I'm pretty sure President Reagan did as well, but look what he did during his presidency.



You dont. The real reason is because there is little discernable difference between the policies of President Obama and President Bush. Bush approved warrantless wiretapping of American citizens, torture, and the denial of habeas corpus; and Obama jumped right on the bandwagon and decided he would say the hell with the court and rule of law, he's now judge, jury, and executioner when it comes to which American citizens are assassinated overseas for being a threat to national security (which he determines solely). Bush was a fan of defecit spending for war, Obama is a fan of defecit spending for entitlements. Bush was in favor of pre-emptive war, Obama is in favor of pre-emptive war. 

You'd actually have a much harder time, and shorter list, pointing out the DIFFERENCES between the policies of the left&right, and you would probably on come up with a handfull of social issues like abortion and gay rights. Other then that, either party, same net result.

----------


## zaggahamma

> You dont. The real reason is because there is little discernable difference between the policies of President Obama and President Bush. Bush approved warrantless wiretapping of American citizens, torture, and the denial of habeas corpus; and Obama jumped right on the bandwagon and decided he would say the hell with the court and rule of law, he's now judge, jury, and executioner when it comes to which American citizens are assassinated overseas for being a threat to national security (which he determines solely). Bush was a fan of defecit spending for war, Obama is a fan of defecit spending for entitlements. Bush was in favor of pre-emptive war, Obama is in favor of pre-emptive war. 
> 
> You'd actually have a much harder time, and shorter list, pointing out the DIFFERENCES between the policies of the left&right, and you would probably on come up with a handfull of social issues like abortion and gay rights. Other then that, either party, same net result.


do you think ron paul is the best chance we have in the mix atm?

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## Armykid93

Mitt or newt is getting the nomination for sure. I like newt better but not a whole lot. Santorum is good but not well enough known.

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## zaggahamma

> Mitt or newt is getting the nomination for sure. I like newt better but not a whole lot. Santorum is good but not well enough known.


i agree with that statement and the only way i differ is i like newt much more and wonder how much romney paid for that trump endorsement...romney being the one all whiney pants when trump was going to moderate a debate......watch greta van susteron's on the record....she attacks every angle...she's a lot more fair and balance than o'reilley...i used to like him but i'm seeing thru his koolaid

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## Coolhand5599

> i agree with that statement and the only way i differ is i like newt much more and wonder how much romney paid for that trump endorsement...romney being the one all whiney pants when trump was going to moderate a debate......watch greta van susteron's on the record....she attacks every angle...she's a lot more fair and balance than o'reilley...i used to like him but i'm seeing thru his koolaid


I like to listen to Newt more and I would love to see that debate. But he is another career politician. Romney is the better candidate for one reason. USA is the worlds largest business and it needs to be run as such.

Trump endorsed Romney for one reason, Romney will be the guy to go against Obama and trump wants to endorse a winner so he can take credit.

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## zaggahamma

> I like to listen to Newt more and I would love to see that debate. But he is another career politician. Romney is the better candidate for one reason. USA is the worlds largest business and it needs to be run as such.
> 
> Trump endorsed Romney for one reason, Romney will be the guy to go against Obama and trump wants to endorse a winner so he can take credit.


that is the popular belief but then again so was the hopey changey...i'll definitely vote for romney if he wins but am a newton

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## Vettester

> that is the popular belief but then again so was the hopey changey...i'll definitely vote for romney if he wins but am a newton


As you know, I'm with you for Newt. However, I think we're going to get Romney on the ticket. I will also vote for him, but I just don't feel all that good about his ability to beat Bama. It's too bad, because I think Newt would be the type to do what he says he will do. Something about Romney just keeps rubbing me wrong ... Seems like he will gladly tell us what we want to hear, but maybe do something else. We already have that in office.

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## Armykid93

I love politics haha.

Shut up and lift

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## zaggahamma

> As you know, I'm with you for Newt. However, I think we're going to get Romney on the ticket. I will also vote for him, but I just don't feel all that good about his ability to beat Bama. It's too bad, because I think Newt would be the type to do what he says he will do. Something about Romney just keeps rubbing me wrong ... Seems like he will gladly tell us what we want to hear, but maybe do something else. We already have that in office.


i am in the EXACT mindset

not giving up yet...newt doing some digging on all those oversea accounts mr. i love firing ppl has...lmao

oops

----------


## zaggahamma

> I love politics haha.
> 
> Free speach and lift heavy and often


fixed  :Smilie:

----------


## Vettester

This pipeline deal is still just bugging the hell out of me. It could have been such a lucrative deal for our country, and that guy who promised so much hope and change just threw it out like a piece of garbage. Sounds like the Canadians are working on the logistics to pipeline it over to B.C., then export to China from there. If any president even gave half a damn about our country and its people, he would make that deal happen. This is one topic that I think Newt would just grill Obama's ass with, but I see Romney being passive about it at best. Romney is a take the high road type of guy, not looking to get roll up his sleeves to far. At least that's my take ...

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## Razor

Reasons he will win
Romney is an idiot
Gingrich shows signs of marital infidelity or wanting "open marraiage" think married women are
Going to like that?
THEY BOTH LOOK LIKE ALIENS.
Obama is the president...BOOM! Call a press conference in my house please..done..
Got us out of war on his term, kill osama and pirates
Didn't rase taxes on middle class, passed healthcare that appeals to the masses
Took all you rich people money and gave it to the poor.
Thats why he is gonna win

Do I like Obama, somewhat not really, but hes going to win...not matter what so 
Buy some more adrol and gh and test and go to the gym
Who cares. Voting was the biggest fraud pulled on the American People.
If you think your vote counts, think again.

I love you guys, not going to argue or post any rebuttles to this.
Peace and Love

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## zaggahamma

> Reasons he will win
> Romney is an idiot
> Gingrich shows signs of marital infidelity or wanting "open marraiage" think married women are
> Going to like that?
> THEY BOTH LOOK LIKE ALIENS.
> Obama is the president...BOOM! Call a press conference in my house please..done..
> Got us out of war on his term, kill osama and pirates
> Didn't rase taxes on middle class, passed healthcare that appeals to the masses
> Took all you rich people money and gave it to the poor.
> ...


solyndra pipeline gas prices catholic church Israel....looks like going into the 4th quarter..debate over no rebuttle

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## spywizard

14 trillion in debt
80,000 jobs lost just in the military reduction
Hates america and all that it stands for current and past
Increase in taxes

but i came in to close the thread since we don't allow political threads, this one on the other hand is a what is your opinion and i didn't really see name calling or bashing..

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## Armykid93

> 14 trillion in debt
> 80,000 jobs lost just in the military reduction
> Hates america and all that it stands for current and past
> Increase in taxes
> 
> but i came in to close the thread since we don't allow political threads, this one on the other hand is a what is your opinion and i didn't really see name calling or bashing..


Best president ever right? Haha not!

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## Razor

> President of the United States of America, Commander & Chief of the US Armed Forces, First African-American President, Has a sexy wife, Beats the hell out of either Bush, Pioneer of Americas 2025 Space Program to Mars, Walks out of meetings when people don't listen, Has a Blackberry, Aging well.


Haha walks out of meetings, when was this??

----------


## Penwrath

> i figured it was going to be a thread bashing.
> I think Obama was a better choice then McCain.
> I dont agree with some of his ideas, some i do.
> I wish he knew how to negotiate better.
> I believe he is alot smarter then Bush.


Totally agree with the fact that he was a better option then McCain! America didn't need an old man as a president IMO

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## zaggahamma

youre 0-2 all in one post

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## JayBee

1st thing was...no more

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## canesfan804

You do know Bush had more days off in his first term then Obama has had right.

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## canesfan804

[QUOTE=Twist;5726425]A little devil's advocate?


"So far, President Obama has taken 61 vacation days after 31 months in office. At this point in their presidencies, George W. Bush had spent 180 days at his ranch where his staff often joined him for meetings. And Ronald Reagan had taken 112 vacation days at his ranch.

Among recent presidents, Bill Clinton took the least time off -- 28 days."

Bush held the least amount of press conferences in history btw. Can't shoot down Obama for something that is minor compared to the alternatives. 


Clinton = surplus --> Bush = recession (twice) --> Obama = slow but steady improvement (record corporate profits, lower unemployment etc) --> Republican congress = downgrade, immediate slow of economy, talks of double dip increase
This is super broad and I'm not gonna argue each individual statement because if you can't see the pattern you are blind. 



If I had another alternative to Obama I would vote for them. Look at the potential candidates for presidency though... We're left with no choice.

Home run!!! Couldnt have said it better. Until these jerkoffs in govt learn to work together for us the average man keeps on losing. Obama has done a fair job with the hand he was delt.

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## zaggahamma

whats a promise anyway

oh and freshen up with posts 72 and 73

and quit watching the view

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## mixtnconfuzd

the person in the presidents seat doesnt matter because at the end of the day they all work for the same entity. its like thinking that a new manager at mcdonalds will change things around, nope only the owner will and the presidents are not the owners Last president to try and do what he thought was right and not listen to the true leaders of this country was JFK and he was killed for it

----------


## bass

to put it in a nutshell the first thing come to mind when i hear Obama is "Socialist" i can't wait for his ass to get kicked out of office, without a TelePrompter he's a blithering idiot, he has no clue how to be a president! we simply voted blindly for him, i didn't but i can understand why people wanted him over McPain.

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## gymfu

This country is now 16 trillion in debt! TRILLION! And the spending continues. The math on that comes out to every American owing 140k! 
He has to go. He may have already done unrepairable financial damage. I don't like Mitt Romney but this deficit spending HAS to stop.

----------


## bass

i didn't like Romney in the beginning, but the more i learn about him the more i like him. would he be able to do anything for the economy?! that remains to be seen, but to be honest it doesn't matter who takes the white house as Long as Obama is gone.

----------


## zaggahamma

> i didn't like Romney in the beginning, but the more i learn about him the more i like him. would he be able to do anything for the economy?! that remains to be seen, but to be honest it doesn't matter who takes the white house as Long as Obama is gone.


agree 100%

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## Henryhill470

Attachment 127704

Nuff said

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## zaggahamma

guess not

----------


## gixxerboy1

> to put it in a nutshell the first thing come to mind when i hear Obama is "Socialist" i can't wait for his ass to get kicked out of office, without a TelePrompter he's a blithering idiot, he has no clue how to be a president! we simply voted blindly for him, i didn't but i can understand why people wanted him over McPain.


I honestly dont get how he is a socialist




> This country is now 16 trillion in debt! TRILLION! And the spending continues. The math on that comes out to every American owing 140k! 
> He has to go. He may have already done unrepairable financial damage. I don't like Mitt Romney but this deficit spending HAS to stop.


the biggest things contributing to the debt is the wars, the bush tax cuts, medicare part D and the economy crashing. So less people are paying in to taxes, more people are collecting food stamps and unemployment. None of those were created by Obama. 

Its like me starting a forest fire. Your trying to put it out. And im still running around pouring gas on it and blaming you for all the damage its caused.

----------


## gymfu

> I honestly dont get how he is a socialist
> 
> 
> 
> the biggest things contributing to the debt is the wars, the bush tax cuts, medicare part D and the economy crashing. So less people are paying in to taxes, more people are collecting food stamps and unemployment. None of those were created by Obama. 
> 
> Its like me starting a forest fire. Your trying to put it out. And im still running around pouring gas on it and blaming you for all the damage its caused.



Wrong, the Bush tax cuts are the only thing keeping this economy moving. Raising taxes stifles the economy and growth. Every time the government has lowered taxes tax revenues go up.

What people forget it is we all work for rich people. When they get tax breaks they get a pay raise and some of that money gets invested into their business, giving raises, hiring new employes, or creating new businesses all together. 

Why do you think Obama reluctantly agreed to extend the tax cuts another year? He knows letting them expire will hurt the economy. 

And Obama and his party are almost solely responsible for the economy, they took control of congress in 2006 The DOW Jones closed at 12,621.77
The GDP for the previous quarter was 3.5%
The Unemployment rate was 4.6%
George Bush's Economic policies SET A RECORD of 52 STRAIGHT MONTHS of JOB GROWTH

January 3rd, 2007 was the day that Barney Frank took over the House
Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd took over the Senate
Banking Committee. The economic meltdown that happened 15 months
later was in what part of the economy? BANKING AND FINANCIAL SERVICES

It was his call to dump 5-6 TRILLION Dollars of toxic loans on the economy from Fannie
Mae and Freddie Mac. 

Bush asked Congress 17 TIMES to stop Fannie & Freddie - starting in
2001 because it was financially risky for the US economy.

And who took the THIRD highest pay-off from Fannie Mae AND Freddie
Mac? OBAMA And who fought against reform of Fannie and Freddie? OBAMA and his democratic controlled congress.



Lern the facts, stop listening the liberal media!

----------


## gymfu

> I honestly dont get how he is a socialist
> 
> 
> 
> the biggest things contributing to the debt is the wars, the bush tax cuts, medicare part D and the economy crashing. So less people are paying in to taxes, more people are collecting food stamps and unemployment. None of those were created by Obama. 
> 
> Its like me starting a forest fire. Your trying to put it out. And im still running around pouring gas on it and blaming you for all the damage its caused.


I will give you that the wars are expensive and Iraq was a mistake. But before you go blaming that all on Bush remember he gave Sadam months and months to comply, he used the UN to pressure him, then he got congressional approval, yes may democracts including Hillary agreed it was the right thing to do. We KNOW Sadom had WMD's he used them against his own people in the past. He just got rid of them or hid them.

And let's not forget this was shortly after 9/11. The greatest at attack this country has ever seen. Thousands of inosent civilians murdered in the most cheap cowardly way possible, all in front of our eyes on tv.

----------


## bass

> Wrong, the Bush tax cuts are the only thing keeping this economy moving. Raising taxes stifles the economy and growth. Every time the government has lowered taxes tax revenues go up.
> 
> What people forget it is we all work for rich people. When they get tax breaks they get a pay raise and some of that money gets invested into their business, giving raises, hiring new employes, or creating new businesses all together.
> 
> Why do you think Obama reluctantly agreed to extend the tax cuts another year? He knows letting them expire will hurt the economy.
> 
> And Obama and his party are almost solely responsible for the economy, they took control of congress in 2006 The DOW Jones closed at 12,621.77
> The GDP for the previous quarter was 3.5%
> The Unemployment rate was 4.6%
> ...


Very nicely said.

----------


## Big Rob78

Hey guys...great discussion. Important points that everyone here might want to know: the Democratic party is heavily lobbied by the pharmaceutical industries. And they make and pass laws and bills to benefit the pharmaceutical industries and then the FDA has to enforce it. The FDA is in the pocket of the pharmaceutical indsutries. Everyone that's paying attention to the world knows that the pharmaceutical industries are at war with the supplement industries.

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## Big Rob78

To further that last post, the Democrats are the ones trying to make the bills to outlaw supplements and were responsible for coming up with most of the prohormone bans. Examples: Democrat Senator Durbin's bill which would have effectively put all supplement companies out of business, costing millions of American jobs. And you can even watch Bigger Stronger Faster and watch how Joe Biden freaks out about people using supplements. Republicans will sign these bills because it's an easy way to look like they're working with the Democrats for bipartisanship. Bureacrats don't know what this stuff is. Mormon Republicans in Utah came up with the laws in the 90s to allow the supplement industry to operate without the scrutiny of the FDA (which is in the pocket of the pharmaceutical industries). If Obama gets re-elected, all prohormones will be banned and tougher laws will be inflicted on the supplement industries, which means that all supplements will about triple in price. 

When you vote for a politician, you're not voting for the individual politicain's ideas and views (Obama or Romney). Romney's political friends and businessmen "Mormon brothers" won't let him screw their supplement businesses in Utah, so we probably won't see any further regulations on prohormones and supplements in Romney's first term. 

Obama hasn't done that bad of a job so far, but the laws and bills that he's proposing for taxes and healthcare will be crippling for the economy during his second term. The cost of living could double if not triple, because the cost of running a business will drastically increase. 

For me, this means less construction for the company I work for to bid on and less work for me, which is less money to spend on the already expensive cost of living. 

I respect everyone's opinion, but people aren't looking at the bigger picture of the way this stuff works. Most Ivy League colleges have all the previous years' lectures online for free. I've been downloading them onto my Ipod and listening to business, political science, and economic courses as I work out for the last 2 years. I don't get any credits, but it makes you really smart and see the world for what it is.

----------


## system admin

I didnt read any posts and jumped right to my own, but for the record, I CAN NOT STAND HIM (to put it mildly)

----------


## gixxerboy1

> *Wrong, the Bush tax cuts are the only thing keeping this economy moving. Raising taxes stifles the economy and growth. Every time the government has lowered taxes tax revenues go up.
> *
> What people forget it is we all work for rich people. When they get tax breaks they get a pay raise and some of that money gets invested into their business, giving raises, hiring new employes, or creating new businesses all together. 
> 
> Why do you think Obama reluctantly agreed to extend the tax cuts another year? He knows letting them expire will hurt the economy. 
> 
> And Obama and his party are almost solely responsible for the economy, they took control of congress in 2006 The DOW Jones closed at 12,621.77
> The GDP for the previous quarter was 3.5%
> The Unemployment rate was 4.6%
> ...


Really lets see. Clinton raised taxes and the revenue collected steadily increased. Bush cut taxes and the numbers steadily decreased.



I do agree to an extend about tax breaks giving people more capital to do more with their business. Now i do not know 1 business owner that needs another employee to be able to service their customers and will not hire them because of tax rates. Also i know of no business owner that will just hire someone because of the tax rates. You either need another employee or you dont. If your busy you hire someone.

----------


## gixxerboy1

> I will give you that the wars are expensive and Iraq was a mistake. But before you go blaming that all on Bush remember he gave Sadam months and months to comply, he used the UN to pressure him, then he got congressional approval, yes may democracts including Hillary agreed it was the right thing to do. We KNOW Sadom had WMD's he used them against his own people in the past. He just got rid of them or hid them.
> 
> And let's not forget this was shortly after 9/11. The greatest at attack this country has ever seen. Thousands of inosent civilians murdered in the most cheap cowardly way possible, all in front of our eyes on tv.


i agree alot of people voted for Iraq when they shouldnt have. 
He gave Sadam months to comply with what? Why did we target him to apply? What other country did we give an ultimatum? He didnt have WMD's anymore. Yes he did and used them in the past. And i completely agree that is and was wrong. But it was years earlier. So why were we going after them now? There were and are other countries that were doing worse to their people.

----------


## zaggahamma

I really liked the zero income tax and raise the sales tax idea

----------


## bass

> I really liked the zero income tax and raise the sales tax idea


It's the way it should be, this way everyone pays the same.

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## system admin

Exactly. EVERYONE pays with a tax like that. The drug dealers, the crooked corporate types AND those on food stamps and welfare when they buy cell phones, car stereo, rims, guns, tv's. "Pay your fair share"..... Im F'n sick of hearing that from people who pay NOTHING in taxes every year. FAIR SHARE by definition would be that EVERYONE pay the same %.

Raise the taxes on businesses and you will have the employees taking the hit. Force me to pay for insurance when its not in my budget and the employee will ultimately pay. Businesses work on a profit loss statement and unlike Obama, a BUDGET! If their profit dips below a certain number, changes are made in the company. Usually the employees are some of the last to get cut or modified in a budget, but when that happens, the employees that did NOT get laid off will take up the slack and responsibilities widened all while not getting a pay increase. Sadly for America, when the economy tanked a few years ago, businesses learned that they COULD run their businesses with less staff. After all of the lay offs, many didn't rehire as their businesses recovered. They realized they didnt need them. 

Enough on politics lol!

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## gymfu

> Really lets see. Clinton raised taxes and the revenue collected steadily increased. Bush cut taxes and the numbers steadily decreased.
> 
> 
> 
> I do agree to an extend about tax breaks giving people more capital to do more with their business. Now i do not know 1 business owner that needs another employee to be able to service their customers and will not hire them because of tax rates. Also i know of no business owner that will just hire someone because of the tax rates. You either need another employee or you dont. If your busy you hire someone.



The receipts went up durring Clinton's presidency because he just happened to be president durring the Internet boom, the greatest economic boom ever!

The receipts went down slightly with th Bush tax cuts but they came back up. They are higher than ever now, and they STILL can't keep from spending trillions more then is coming in every single year. They are absolutely out of control. The answer is NOT giving any more of our money. They will just piss that away too.

And of course business owners will hire or expand when they are allowed to keep more of their money.

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## gymfu

> i agree alot of people voted for Iraq when they shouldnt have. 
> He gave Sadam months to comply with what? Why did we target him to apply? What other country did we give an ultimatum? He didnt have WMD's anymore. Yes he did and used them in the past. And i completely agree that is and was wrong. But it was years earlier. So why were we going after them now? There were and are other countries that were doing worse to their people.


The UN sent inspectors in to check his weapons and he kicked them out, them he'd let them back in with enough pressure put on and he'd kick them back out. This happed several times. We, and the rest of the world, gave him more than enough time to do the right thing. As it turned out he must have been hiding or getting rid off his weapons with the time. We targeted him because he was crazy and dangerous, do you know what his sons were doing? One of them was snatching little girls, and I mean little girls, off the street and rapeing and killing them.

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## gymfu

> Exactly. EVERYONE pays with a tax like that. The drug dealers, the crooked corporate types AND those on food stamps and welfare when they buy cell phones, car stereo, rims, guns, tv's. "Pay your fair share"..... Im F'n sick of hearing that from people who pay NOTHING in taxes every year. FAIR SHARE by definition would be that EVERYONE pay the same %.
> 
> Raise the taxes on businesses and you will have the employees taking the hit. Force me to pay for insurance when its not in my budget and the employee will ultimately pay. Businesses work on a profit loss statement and unlike Obama, a BUDGET! If their profit dips below a certain number, changes are made in the company. Usually the employees are some of the last to get cut or modified in a budget, but when that happens, the employees that did NOT get laid off will take up the slack and responsibilities widened all while not getting a pay increase. Sadly for America, when the economy tanked a few years ago, businesses learned that they COULD run their businesses with less staff. After all of the lay offs, many didn't rehire as their businesses recovered. They realized they didnt need them. 
> 
> Enough on politics lol!


What's really sad is that the bottom wage earners get more money back then what they put in. So not only are they not paying any taxes they are burdening the rest of us.

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## system admin

Again.... "Fair Share" isnt so fair if you ask me.

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## gixxerboy1

> What's really sad is that the bottom wage earners get more money back then what they put in. So not only are they not paying any taxes they are burdening the rest of us.


i agree the tax code isnt fair. But it isnt fair for alot of people and some that benefit dont complain when its in their favor.
Home interest mortgage deduction? So people get a deduction for buying a home? My rent is higher then some peoples mortgage. But i get know deduction
Child credits? So people get a deduction for having a kid. So because my wife and i decided on no kids we have to pay higher taxes? Oh also our taxes help pay for those kids to goto school.

I'd rather my tax money to goto help someone in need because of no fault of their own. Then to people who make decisions to buy a home or have kids. Those are decisions. Getting laid off isnt. I agree their is abuse in the social systems and need to be fixed also.

Those are just some examples.

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## system admin

right on gixxer

I myself am happy to pay a shit ton of taxes as long as its FAIR and it is not being wasted on BS. When I hear "Millionaires and Billionaires" it drives me crazy because the majority of hard working people who do work their way up into millionaire status is NO WHERE near the level the Obama administration keeps referring to. Class warfare will destroy this country and it should not be used as a political tool. The same goes for race. How many of us Americans are really raciest in this day and age? I can say from my own life experiences that I don't see it, yet race is still being used as a political tool as well. Why start these types of divisions within our country?? Most people don't even think about it until it becomes a news story drummed up as leverage for someones political gain.

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## gixxerboy1

> right on gixxer
> 
> I myself am happy to pay a shit ton of taxes as long as its FAIR and it is not being wasted on BS. When I hear "Millionaires and Billionaires" it drives me crazy because the majority of hard working people who do work their way up into millionaire status is NO WHERE near the level the Obama administration keeps referring to. Class warfare will destroy this country and it should not be used as a political tool. The same goes for race. How many of us Americans are really raciest in this day and age? I can say from my own life experiences that I don't see it, yet race is still being used as a political tool as well. Why start these types of divisions within our country?? Most people don't even think about it until it becomes a news story drummed up as leverage for someones political gain.


race is always going to be in issue. Even if it isnt "racist" 
Just think about the this election. The latino vote, the black vote, if you are counting people by their skin color or ethnicity its racism. Even people from that group to me keep it going. They are asking what will they do for their group. Even you dont want racism stopping dividing yourself and ask what the canidates will do for america

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## zaggahamma

> race is always going to be in issue. Even if it isnt "racist" 
> Just think about the this election. The latino vote, the black vote, if you are counting people by their skin color or ethnicity its racism. Even people from that group to me keep it going. They are asking what will they do for their group. Even you dont want racism stopping dividing yourself and ask what the canidates will do for america


agree 100% with what u said here..

but it IS racist CALLING someone a racist because they disagree/dislike with a VALUES OR RECORD of a candidate or calling someone a racist because they think you should show ID to vote

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## system admin

The ID issue is completely ridiculous. Americans are required to show ID for EVERYTHING. Why is it an issue to vote? Politicians playing games. Why grant amnesty to illegals several months before an election and without a proper vote? Politics. All we can do is sit back and take it.... Hell, what hope do the people who play by the rules have when even other politicians cant do anything about these acts from the president. It seems they do the same thing the rest of us do and just bitch about it. Does not show much hope when even the politicians can do nothing but sit back and bitch and moan.

Fast and Furious... whats going to be done about that? NOTHING Attack on our embassy. Who is going to answer for that disgraceful situation? NO ONE. 


Many Dems are pissing on Romney about "Why dont you SHOW us what you are going to do?" Well, what about Obama Care when Palosi went around telling everyone "You have to vote for it to see whats in it" I mean give me a fuking break.....

Im tired of ALL the games from ALL the parties. NOT just from Dems. We need a Govt who plays by the rules, but the problem is that will NEVER happen because when one side tries to run a good clean campaign, the other side will take advantage of it and play even dirtier.

One last thing: How is it fair that the national media can ONLY cover shit on Republicans and not mention jack shit about the flubs and blunders of the Democrats? We have a serious problem and I can guarantee you that things are going to get really bad before they get better. People are fed up and its going to start to become more than just political demonstrations in the near future.

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## spywizard

fox news points out the dems.. 

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/category/ratings



*5p:*
*6p:*
*7p:*
*8p:*
*9p:*
*10p:*
*11p:*
*12a:*



*FNC*
*TheFive:*
*Baier:*
*Shep:*
*O’Reilly:*
*Hannity:*
*Greta:*
*O’Reilly:*
*Hannity:*


425
466
437
695
623
517
369
321



*MSNBC*
*Matthews:*
*Sharpton:*
*Matthews:*
*EdShow:*
*Maddow:*
*O’Donnell:*
*EdShow:*
*Maddow:*


313
345
342
330
524
440
249
234



*CNN*
*Blitzer:*
*Blitzer:*
*Burnett:*
*Cooper:*
*Morgan:*
*Cooper:*
*Burnett:*
*Morgan:*


130
124
155
143
107
164
125
134



*HLN*
*Express:*
*Express:*
*VelezMitch:*
*Grace:*
*Dr.Drew:*
*Grace:*
*Showbiz:*
*Dr.Drew:*


20
35
76
121
109
83
100
104

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## JimR

I think the Obama haters are just plain nuts for the most part. Romney will win and things will get worse.

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## system admin

Spy, thats GREAT to see and shocking. Speaks volumes

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## system admin

We need a LEADER to represent our country, not a rock star celebrity.

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## gixxerboy1

I do agree with needing ID. But IMO its to late to fairly implement it for this election. For some people it would take along time to get all the required paperwork to get the ID. I dont think by the time it was passed it was enough notice. I think it should be implemented for 2014 elections

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## system admin

Agreed. The issue is: WHY is this an issue NOW? This should have been dealt with a long time ago. Another example of how the govt is sitting on its hands... Nothing to do with Obama.

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## JimR

Obama has a lot more depth than many of you guys give him credit for. He is The President of the United States and hasn't done a terrible job. He wakes up in the morning to do his job and has done well.

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## Riptorn

> We need a LEADER to represent our country, not a rock star celebrity.


Could not agree more. However in our current culture looks and celebrity outweigh knowledge and wisdom. Until we change our values as US citizens our leaders will continue to be based off a popularity contest. Seldom is the High school valedictorian the prom king.

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## system admin

> Seldom is the High school valedictorian the prom king.


Awesome example.

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## gymfu

> I think the Obama haters are just plain nuts for the most part. Romney will win and things will get worse.


I really hope he gets to prove you wrong.

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## zaggahamma

so obama says in the debate that he called the benghazi attack an act of terrorism the day after (sept. 12th)

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

lie or a lie

good job huh

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## gixxerboy1

> so obama says in the debate that he called the benghazi attack an act of terrorism the day after (sept. 12th)
> 
> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
> 
> lie or a lie
> 
> good job huh


technically he did. They have aired the clip multiple times already. 
That made Romney look horrible, he went for the attack, made that horrible expression raising his eye brows and was wrong. 
""
I'm not saying Romney cant fix things. But why doesnt he give more details then " i know how" or " i can do it"

And his tax plan everyone is saying its not possible to not raise taxes on the middle class or make the debt bigger. If some hoe he figured it out why not give the details and shut everyone up and prove you deserve the job?

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## zaggahamma

no...he didnt call that attack terrorism and didnt until several weeks later....the spin they came up with just recently was to say MENTIONING "not putting up with terrorism" in his interview was him saying the attack was terrorism..why would you push that propoganda knowing its false

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## zaggahamma

it didnt make him look horrible...he was in utter shock that he came up with a new fat lie

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## RaginCajun

i thought Obummer and Romney were going to duke it out at first!

looked like two kids up there!

i wish politicians would sign a document stating everything they want to change or do, and if they don't deliver, fire themselves!

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## gixxerboy1

> it didnt make him look horrible...he was in utter shock that he came up with a new fat lie


i dont agree. And i even say republican commentators say that was one of Romney's worst moments.
Romney had a few lies himself last night.

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## gixxerboy1

> no...he didnt call that attack terrorism and didnt until several weeks later....the spin they came up with just recently was to say MENTIONING "not putting up with terrorism" in his interview was him saying the attack was terrorism..why would you push that propoganda knowing its false


who says it was propaganda if all the information wasnt in yet 24 hours later? Or if they got some mis information? You think they actually went out there and flat out lied?

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## SEOINAGE

> I really liked the zero income tax and raise the sales tax idea


I've been arguing no income tax with people and it hasn't worked out too well. I've definitely been for this. 

Our economy needs people to have a greater incentive to make more money. Obama seeks to drive the middle class into dependance. Romney wants to facilitate americans with upward mobility, and under his changes, not just businesses benefit, but ultimately the employee does, ends up with the possibility of not only having more take home, but for wages to increase and ultimately not as reliant on government. Personally it looks like I make ok money, nothing great, but with how ridiculous it is that I can't buy more than the necessities and have left over money, it drives me crazy. Everything is just too expensive, and like what was mentioned in the debates middle class is making less money. This is why my wages 10 years ago would have kept me able to have a little extra to do things, and not be constantly concerned about spending habits to the point I don't fix things because the money just isn't there.

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## gixxerboy1

^^^ see i don't see how any president can effect wages. Yes they are down. Who set the wages? The company. Now big companies have stock holders to answer too. So paying more cuts into profit. There are some companies up profit wise and still laying off or freezing wages. There are a lot of employers who just aren't generous. They dont take care of their employees. I have worked for people that were very cheap and took everything for themselves. I worked for people who spread the wealth. If we had a good month or year they would do something for the employees. A bonus something, Cause they realized the employees drive the business for most.

The only thing i can see is if the economy really hits a boom and there are tons of places hiring and unemployment is low. Then companies have to compete for good employees and have to offer more.

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## zaggahamma

> who says it was propaganda if all the information wasnt in yet 24 hours later? Or if they got some mis information? You think they actually went out there and flat out lied?


i dont THINK they lied...*THEY DID*

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## gixxerboy1

> i dont THINK they lied...*THEY DID*


ill wait to the actual investigation is done to form my opinion.

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## system admin

It has already come out... he DID lie and Candy set the record straight, OFF air. ridiculous.

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## gixxerboy1

> It has already come out... he DID lie and Candy set the record straight, OFF air. ridiculous.


what am i missing? I seen the video clip of him saying.

4:15 min in

----------


## bass

> so obama says in the debate that he called the benghazi attack an act of terrorism the day after (sept. 12th)
> 
> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
> 
> lie or a lie
> 
> good job huh


Both!

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## zaggahamma

so the prez said it was a terrorist attack?......6 days later U.N. ambassador says this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xG64x31wyCU

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## gixxerboy1

> so the prez said it was a terrorist attack?......6 days later U.N. ambassador says this:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xG64x31wyCU


oh i'm not saying there isnt mixed messages. I'm just saying Romney was wrong in his accusation last night. Romney def had an argument to make but picked the wrong battle.

And its been confirmed that Romney made "mistakes' or "misslead" or "lied" how ever you wanted to put it last night also.

----------


## gymfu

I think if this had happened under president Bush the dems and media would be calling for his impeachment.

What happed is clear, the amasator wrote in his diary that he was concerned about his security and asked for help, he was obviously ignored. Now it is unclear if Obama knew about this but regardless he is in charge and everyone in the White House works for him.

The really bad part about this is after the attack they were all blaming it on that movie. Then the ambassadors diary gets released and it was ohno this was a act of terror.

I'm still pissed that those animals over ran our Embassy and killed three Americans. I's a good thing I'm not in charge, I would do a lot more then invesigate who sent what when.

----------


## bass

> I think if this had happened under president Bush the dems and media would be calling for his impeachment.
> 
> What happed is clear, the amasator wrote in his diary that he was concerned about his security and asked for help, he was obviously ignored. Now it is unclear if Obama knew about this but regardless he is in charge and everyone in the White House works for him.
> 
> The really bad part about this is after the attack they were all blaming it on that movie. Then the ambassadors diary gets released and it was ohno this was a act of terror.
> 
> I'm still pissed that those animals over ran our Embassy and killed three Americans. I's a good thing I'm not in charge, I would do a lot more then invesigate who sent what when.


4 American. The whole damn middle east is not worth the shit those 4 put in the toilet. Nuke the fvckers and get it over with.

----------


## Far from massive

Damn Bass,

Tell me how you really feel. While I would be the first to condemn acts of terrorism I am not quite ready to nuke the middle east due to the actions of some extremists. Personally I think its high time we let Israel fight its own battles. If we would quit trying to run the middle east by remote control we would not be the target of all this hate.

----------


## zaggahamma

FFM, should our country not help ANY country for ANY reason? no more allies? or just israel? and if u think just not help israel, why?

----------


## Far from massive

Help countries... . (if we really wanted to "help" countries we would be concentrating on portions of Africa and other conflicts where our actions are minimal and the abuse of civil rights is maximal ) We do very little "helping" that is not in our financial interest so first off lets get the terminology straight it is called investing in other countries. And no I do not think that in this day of free exchange of information and worldwide economic intercourse we can get away with either colonializing countries or simply manipulating them so that they run by remote control. 

As far as Israel goes, the middle east is divided by religious beliefs, these different beliefs and hatreds have kept these factions fighting for 100s of years. This whole idea of peace and love Bush and his cronies sold to the American people really shows just how naive and childish the voting public is these days. Sure if we could take out a dictator and waive the wand of free elections and have them all live in peace I would be all for it, however this is a childish fantasy.

Myself I feel the reason we continue to involve ourselves in the Isreal's problems is two fold. Note; this may be so hard to digest I am reluctant to post it here, but what the hell. The obvious reason that we do this to appease all the Jewish people in sympathy who hold powerful posistions in the US and UN. However the other "under the radar" reason is that with the advent of Israels possesion of nuclear weapons if they ever were a full on attack on Israel they might use the nukes, as so many of my Jewish friends have pointed out to me, and easily win the war, (sadly they seem to think I am an arab lover since I do not feel we should devote billions a year to trying to revive this corpse) this I feel is a situation the oil barons in power in the US would definately not want. Since the Jews are far better at marketing petroleum than the Arabs ever will be so the price of crude would increase dramatically (look at diamonds).

Anyway sorry if my feeling offend anyone, this is really not an antisemetic veiwpoint I simply don't feel that this is a fixable situation.

----------


## zaggahamma

i dont see how it can be offensive

you stated an opinion and a theory

interesting and makes sense

i dont see how staying their ally would HURT us any then even given your statement/theory...and is there government ever been known to kill its own, cruel to women like their neighbors...
sure it might go back to its none of our biz how countries treat their people but its always gonna make a difference

----------


## fit2bOld

We need to take a hard look at congress, a jobs bill that would put millions of people back to work rebuilding our crumbling national infrastructure sits there as they do nothing. Countries that are prospering in the meantime continue to invest in this while we as a country watch it fall apart. The hard work and investment of our fathers, grandfathers and great grandfathers.

----------


## bass

> Damn Bass,
> 
> Tell me how you really feel. While I would be the first to condemn acts of terrorism I am not quite ready to nuke the middle east due to the actions of some extremists. Personally I think its high time we let Israel fight its own battles. If we would quit trying to run the middle east by remote control we would not be the target of all this hate.


You're wrong brother, I was born there and lived there for 18 years, I know how they think and want to do to anyone who's not a Muslim. Many civil people still there but way out numbered. Of course I wasn't serious about nuking them but we need to put a stop to it. Does Japan ring a bell?!

----------


## gixxerboy1

this thread has been good and stayed civil with different opinions. Please lets not turn it into a Muslim hating thread

----------


## bass

> this thread has been good and stayed civil with different opinions. Please lets not turn it into a Muslim hating thread


Bro, do you watch TV?! Since when stating facts is hate?

----------


## zaggahamma

LIL JOKE BACK TO THE TITLE OF THE ORIGINAL POST THREAD************************

One day in the future, Barack Obama has a heart-attack and dies.

He immediately goes to hell, where the devil is waiting for him.

"I don't know what to do here," says the devil. "You are on my list, but I have no room for you. You definitely have to stay here, so I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I've got a couple of folks here who weren't quite as bad as you. I'll let one of them go, but you...have to take their place. I'll even let YOU decide who leaves."

Obama thought that sounded pretty good, so the devil opened the door to the first room.

In it was Ted Kennedy and a large pool of water. Ted kept diving in, and surfacing, empty handed. Over, and over, and over he dived in and surfaced with nothing. Such was his fate in hell.

"No," Obama said. "I don't think so. I'm not a good swimmer, and I don't think I could do that all day long."

The devil led him to the door of the next room. In it was Al Gore with a sledge-hammer and a room full of rocks. All he did was swing that hammer, time after time after time.

"No, this is no good; I've got this problem with my shoulder. I would be in constant agony if all I could do was break rocks all day," commented Obama.

The devil opened a third door. Through it, Obama saw Bill Clinton, lying on the bed, his arms tied over his head, and his legs restrained in a spread-eagle pose. Bent over him was Monica Lewinsky, doing what she does best.

Obama looked at this in shock and disbelief, and finally said, "Yeah man, I can handle this.”

The devil smiled and said...........(This is priceless...)

"OK, Monica, you're free to go."

----------


## bass

> LIL JOKE BACK TO THE TITLE OF THE ORIGINAL POST THREAD************************
> 
> One day in the future, Barack Obama has a heart-attack and dies.
> 
> He immediately goes to hell, where the devil is waiting for him.
> 
> "I don't know what to do here," says the devil. "You are on my list, but I have no room for you. You definitely have to stay here, so I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I've got a couple of folks here who weren't quite as bad as you. I'll let one of them go, but you...have to take their place. I'll even let YOU decide who leaves."
> 
> Obama thought that sounded pretty good, so the devil opened the door to the first room.
> ...


Haha..... Good one jp!

----------


## bass

just one of 1000s out there. for those who think Islam don't have a long term goal, wake up and smell the hummus!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7_LfghKTrk

----------


## lovbyts

> LIL JOKE BACK TO THE TITLE OF THE ORIGINAL POST THREAD************************
> 
> 
> "OK, Monica, you're free to go."


hahahaha I had to literally cover my mouth at work due to LOL

----------


## TuneUp

Priceless is Right! Vote early vote often  :Smilie:

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## lovbyts

Have you seen this? Less than 200 showed up for his rally on Sunday. lol
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index...l#incart_river

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## zaggahamma

interesting....we'll see tomorrow

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## lovbyts

I though this was pretty interesting also.

*Valerie Jarret* Openly declared as “Obama’s Brain”, and the figure whose second story West Wing office has been described by political insiders as the true Oval Office of the Obama White House.

“After we win this election, it’s our turn. Payback time. Everyone not with us is against us and they better be ready because we don’t forget. The ones who helped us will be rewarded, the ones who opposed us will get what they deserve. There is going to be hell to pay. Congress won’t be a problem for us this time. No election to worry about after this is over and we have two judges ready to go.” 
*http://theulstermanreport.com/2012/1...back-time-wsi/*

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## zaggahamma

The nerve

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## Vettester

She's coming to your house, j!!

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## zaggahamma

ha...yeh i just heard the good news...the ground hog saw his shadow and bidens

4 more years...so i can get a phone...how bout a motorcycle

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## boxingfan30

> i think if this had happened under president bush the dems and media would be calling for his impeachment.
> 
> What happed is clear, the amasator wrote in his diary that he was concerned about his security and asked for help, he was obviously ignored. Now it is unclear if obama knew about this but regardless he is in charge and everyone in the white house works for him.
> 
> The really bad part about this is after the attack they were all blaming it on that movie. Then the ambassador’s diary gets released and it was oh……no this was a act of terror.
> 
> I'm still pissed that those animals over ran our embassy and killed three americans. I's a good thing i'm not in charge, i would do a lot more then invesigate who sent what when.


this^^^

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## tattoo449

I know this is a very old thread but " a sexy wife "". Huh. I must be going blind. !!!!!

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## sea urchin

His name makes me want to vomit.

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## songdog

Hell the only reason he won is beacuse he didnt suck as much as Romney.We need a guy who isnt from Texas and who isnt going to be run by big oil.

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## wmaousley

> Hell the only reason he won is beacuse he didnt suck as much as Romney.We need a guy who isnt from Texas and who isnt going to be run by big oil.



Well let me the first to enlighten you. No matter where the next candidates come from, The big Oil companies will always be major players and major funders to the campaigns. All of the oil companies will fund the democratic & Republican parties equally . The ones we need to worry about are the pharmaceutical giants and the banking lobbiest.

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## John Cluso

> the first thing that came to my mind.................. Ron Paul 2012


I like that!

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## RA

Obama...makes Carter look like a good president. If you still think hes good...you sniff too much glue.

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## Armykid93

> Obama...makes Carter look like a good president. If you still think hes good...you sniff too much glue.


Lol so true so true

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