# GENERAL FORUM > IN THE NEWS >  Fundamentalist Christians Boycotting McDonald's over Gay Marriage

## Tock

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...303769_pf.html

*Gay-Marriage Opponents To Boycott McDonald's
*

By Frank Ahrens
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, July 4, 2008; D01


A group that opposes same-sex marriage has called for a boycott of McDonald's, saying the fast-food giant has refused "to stay neutral in the cultural war over homosexuality."

The American Family Association (AFA) launched the boycott yesterday because McDonald's joined the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce several months ago and placed an executive on the group's board of directors, in addition to donating to the chamber.

The association asked McDonald's to remove itself from the chamber but the burger-maker declined, leading to the boycott. "We're saying that there are people who support AFA who don't appreciate their dollars from the hamburgers they bought being put into an organization that's going to fight against the values they believe in," Tim Wildmon, the association's president, said yesterday.

"Hatred has no place in our culture," McDonald's USA spokesman Bill Whitman said. "That includes McDonald's, and we stand by and support our people to live and work in a society free of discrimination and harassment."

In March, the association ended a two-year boycott of Ford after the automaker largely stopped advertising its Volvo, Jaguar and Land Rover vehicles in the gay media. The association also has boycotted retailer Target for substituting "holiday" for "Christmas" in its advertising and the Walt Disney Co. for its "embrace of the homosexual lifestyle."

Corporations increasingly are courting the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender markets for their buying power and trendsetting value. This translates into corporate sponsorships of events, such as gay pride festivals, and advertising targeted at nonheterosexual consumers.
As a result, faith-based groups such as the AFA are following the example practiced for years by the secular left, which has targeted corporations for their policies on environmental, workplace and human-rights issues.
The AFA "exists to motivate and equip citizens to change the culture to reflect Biblical truth and traditional family values," the group's Web site reads. The organization, based in Tupelo, Miss., has 2.8 million people on its e-mail alert system and sends its monthly magazine to 170,000 people, Wildmon said.

Wildmon said his group wants McDonald's to give up its membership in the chamber, which is located in Dupont Circle, next year and to remove its logo from the chamber's Web site. "I think the request we're making is more than fair," Wildmon said.

A call to chamber president Justin G. Nelson was not returned.

Wildmon said that his group would not object if McDonald's gave money to a group that, for instance, assisted gay HIV/AIDS patients. "You wouldn't hear from us," he said. "That would be classified as humanitarian aid." The AFA has planned no on-site protests, Wildmon said.

In a May 29 letter to Wildmon, McDonald's global chief diversity officer Pat Harris wrote: "McDonald's is associated with countless local and national affinity groups. . . . We have a well-established and proud heritage of associating with individuals and organizations that share the belief that every person has the right to live and work in a community free of discrimination."

On its new Web site, BoycottMcDonalds.com, AFA says the boycott is not about McDonald's hiring or serving gay patrons or its treatment of gay employees. Instead, the boycott is motivated by McDonald's throwing "the full weight of their corporation to promoting the homosexual agenda, including homosexual marriage."
Ascertaining the impact of such boycotts can be tricky. Ford's monthly sales slumped at times during the AFA boycott, but so did those of General Motors, DaimlerChrysler and Toyota. The boycott coincided with an industry-wide slide in sales of SUVs and trucks, Ford's core products. "It is so difficult to sort out what cause and effect is today with the number of variables that are in play," said David E. Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research.

Ford, which has sold its Jaguar and Land Rover lines, said gay-oriented ads constituted a small slice of its marketing budget. When cuts were made, mainstream-market advertising was reduced, while niche advertising was all but eliminated.

In a March statement, the company said: "Ford will continue to market its products widely to attract as many customers as possible and make charitable contributions to strengthen communities to the extent business conditions allow. Difficult business conditions in recent years have reduced our overall spending across the board."

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## Coop77

good, most fundamentalist christians I see need to lose weight anyway

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## BITTAPART2

wow, the unemployment rate in the mobile home parks is going to rise fast!!!! just think, they are boycotting their own jobs! we call that a strike 
crazy christians

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## gixxerboy1

Good for McDonalds sticking with it

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## Billy-the-kid

About 77% of all Americans are Christains. When you have a "Family Business" like McDonald's that has a play area for our children; a good business practice would be to stay neutarl on the gay issue. 

What the Hell is the National Gay & Lesbian Chamer of Commerce anyway? This very small special interest group has no real economic muscle behind it. This is just Left Coast B.S. If you'r gay, that is fine with me; but stay out of my face with it. I don't care who you sleep with, and I don't care, keep it to yourself. 

Disney World got hurt bad when they promoted their annual Gay Days. Nothing is sacred to the "Left" anymore. Can't my kid go to Disney World or eat a burger without sexuality being an issue?

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## gixxerboy1

> About 77% of all Americans are Christains. When you have a "Family Business" like McDonald's that has a play area for our children; a good business practice would be to stay neutarl on the gay issue. 
> 
> What the Hell is the National Gay & Lesbian Chamer of Commerce anyway? This very small special interest group has no real economic muscle behind it. This is just Left Coast B.S. If you'r gay, that is fine with me; but stay out of my face with it. I don't care who you sleep with, and I don't care, keep it to yourself. 
> 
> Disney World got hurt bad when they promoted their annual Gay Days. Nothing is sacred to the "Left" anymore. Can't my kid go to Disney World or eat a burger without sexuality being an issue?



This will not change what it is like to go into a McDonald's. You would never know it if the AFA hate group didn't talk about it.

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## Coop77

> About 77% of all Americans are Christains. When you have a "Family Business" like McDonald's that has a play area for our children; a good business practice would be to stay neutarl on the gay issue. 
> 
> What the Hell is the National Gay & Lesbian Chamer of Commerce anyway? This very small special interest group has no real economic muscle behind it. This is just Left Coast B.S. If you'r gay, that is fine with me; but stay out of my face with it. I don't care who you sleep with, and I don't care, keep it to yourself. 
> 
> Disney World got hurt bad when they promoted their annual Gay Days. Nothing is sacred to the "Left" anymore. Can't my kid go to Disney World or eat a burger without sexuality being an issue?


It's not like they're putting a How-To-Have-Gay-Sex pamphlet in every happy meal. They're just marketing to a gay audience, which is big business. Unless your kid reads gay publications and sees McDonalds ads there, he'd never know the difference.

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## Billy-the-kid

Back up sister!!! The AFA is not a hate group. They are a group of Christains that have traditional American/Christain beliefs. I'm not a member, I don't even go to church, but these people have a right not to eat at a restaurant if that restaurant is going to support some gay special interest group! They also have a right not to be labeled a "hate group". I love liberals like you. If you don't agree with what the AFA is doing, then they are a hate group. How trite.

What if it was a Moslem or an Islamic group that boycotted McDonalds for supporting some gay group? You know what Moslem's think of the gay community don't you? Then you would be signing a different tune, how we must respect and understand the beliefs of other religions and cultures. Diversity is so enriching and we must build a bridge between the gay community and the ...... Bla, Bla, Bla...

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## gixxerboy1

> Back up sister!!! The AFA is not a hate group. They are a group of Christains that have traditional American/Christain beliefs. I'm not a member, I don't even go to church, but these people have a right not to eat at a restaurant if that restaurant is going to support some gay special interest group! They also have a right not to be labeled a "hate group". I love liberals like you. If you don't agree with what the AFA is doing, then they are a hate group. How trite.
> 
> What if it was a Moslem or an Islamic group that boycotted McDonalds for supporting some gay group? You know what Moslem's think of the gay community don't you? Then you would be signing a different tune, how we must respect and understand the beliefs of other religions and cultures. Diversity is so enriching and we must build a bridge between the gay community and the ...... Bla, Bla, Bla...


Of course they have that right not to go there. What do you call it? they discriminate against people who are gay or support them. IMO that is a hate group. 

Lol im not a liberial. Just because i dont use a fiction book to run my life you think i am? You dont want gay stuff forced down your throught. well thats how i feel about religion. I sick of everyone thanking god. Having to see these dumb god bill boards. And not to mention a church on every corner

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## Tesla

I have been boycotting McDonald's for years.....but only because their food sucks.

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## Billy-the-kid

That just shows how out of touch with reality you are. Is Hamas or the Taliban freedom fighters, or are they a hate group? Don't call them terrorists, we may offend someone. The KKK is a hate group my friend, Christains are not. 

Who are they discriminating against? A Christain family that does not eat at a restaurant because said restaurant supports the national gay and lesbian chamber of commerce is not a hate group. And if a Christain family does not want to spend money at said restaurant because it conflicts with their family values & morales, how does that equate to hate?

Liberalism is a mental disease! gixxerboy1 says he is "sick of everyone thanking GOD." The man has no respect for others and has lost his soul.

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## gixxerboy1

> That just shows how out of touch with reality you are. Is Hamas or the Taliban freedom fighters, or are they a hate group? Don't call them terrorists, we may offend someone. The KKK is a hate group my friend, Christains are not. 
> 
> Who are they discriminating against? A Christain family that does not eat at a restaurant because said restaurant supports the national gay and lesbian chamber of commerce is not a hate group. *And if a Christain family does not want to spend money at said restaurant because it conflicts with their family values & morales, how does that equate to hate?*
> 
> Liberalism is a mental disease! gixxerboy1 says he is "sick of everyone thanking GOD." The man has no respect for others and has lost his soul.


But yet they might eat chinese food or other ethnic food that doesnt have the same beliefs. 

Honestly i hate all religions. I think its all a total shame. but as long as it doesnt effect me i don't care what anyone wants to believe

Again im not a liberal or Conservitive i guess. I have dif. feelings on dif issues.

And liberalism is a mental disease? But yet beliving that there is a big man in the sky watching what everyoen is doing every second of the day isnt? lol

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## thegodfather

> About 77% of all Americans are Christains. When you have a "Family Business" like McDonald's that has a play area for our children; a good business practice would be to stay neutarl on the gay issue. 
> 
> What the Hell is the National Gay & Lesbian Chamer of Commerce anyway? This very small special interest group has no real economic muscle behind it. This is just Left Coast B.S. * If you'r gay, that is fine with me; but stay out of my face with it. I don't care who you sleep with, and I don't care, keep it to yourself.* 
> 
> Disney World got hurt bad when they promoted their annual Gay Days. Nothing is sacred to the "Left" anymore. Can't my kid go to Disney World or eat a burger without sexuality being an issue?



Keep it to yourself? In what respect do you mean the aforementioned sentence? If you have or had a girlfriend/wife/sig. other, at some point in your life, when you were out in public did you hold her hand? give her a kiss? perhaps wear a ring to signify your comment to her and vice versa? 

*YOU* dont "keep it to yourself," so why the FU*K would you presume to subjugate other people and tell them to keep their relationships "to themselves." There is only one word for the kind of rhetoric you are spewing from your keyboard...... *INTOLERANCE.* 

And before you shoot your mouth off and call me a liberal, WRONG. I'm a conservative Republican(Libertarian).

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## thegodfather

> That just shows how out of touch with reality you are. Is Hamas or the Taliban freedom fighters, or are they a hate group? Don't call them terrorists, we may offend someone. The KKK is a hate group my friend, Christains are not. 
> 
> Who are they discriminating against? A Christain family that does not eat at a restaurant because said restaurant supports the national gay and lesbian chamber of commerce is not a hate group. And if a Christain family does not want to spend money at said restaurant because it conflicts with their family values & morales, how does that equate to hate?
> 
> Liberalism is a mental disease! gixxerboy1 says he is "sick of everyone thanking GOD." The man has no respect for others and has lost his soul.



Hamas in fact is a freedom fighting group, as are the "insurgents" in Iraq. They are defending their previously sovereign country against the invasion and OCCUPATION by a foreign power which had no business to violate their sovereignty and their unalienable rights. Anyway, during the R*********ary War in the 1700's, the founding fathers of the United States were called TERRORISTS by the Crown. You see, who we decide to label a terrorist is largely dependent on who's perspective you are loooking through. The United States brands the opposition in Iraq as "terrorists" to coddify the support of the American people into supporting an imperialist profiteering war effort. That is the truth, the cold hard fact, and nothing more. 

See, an open minded person who can think for themselves (and not under the direction of a 5,000 year old text) is able to take a step back and look at situations through the lenses of other people different from themselves. Since you obviously lack this ability I was obliged to do this for you in my aforementioned paragraph. 

Terrorism, for your information, is a TACTIC of war. It is not a person, place, or group. It's a type of warfare. The label has been adopted to fit the various agendas of regimes around the world who need moral justification to subjugate other peoples and lands for various reasons.

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## Billy-the-kid

Hey Godfather, 2 pionts!

1) First, your correct, there are some things I don't want to tolerate, so I'm intolerant. I don't want to explain to my 5 or 7 year old why 2 dudes are kissing or how they are married, and now it is ok, because it is an alternative lifestyle. NO WAY!!! Not on my watch. Let my kids be kids, they don't need to see that shit! And if family businesses like McDonalds or Disney World want to support those Gay groups, so be it. But my family won't be there. So call me intolerant. Tell me my family belongs to a hate group because we won't eat at McDonalds. I'm holding on to my traditional American values. 

2) Second, And most important, You said "Hamas is in fact a freedom fighting group"? Your insane! They are a militant group known for numerous suicide bombings against civilians. They are listed as a terrorist group by the USA, Canada, Japan, the UK, ect... Hamas' charter states "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through JIHAD". 

Do you know what Jihad is? Educate yourself Godfather. They are not freedom fighters, they are terrorists. Yes, terrorism is a tactic of war, for them. We Americans don't strap bombs to our kids backs and tell them to blow up a bus full of civilians for our political agenda.

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## gixxerboy1

> Hey Godfather, 2 pionts!
> 
> 1) First, your correct, there are some things I don't want to tolerate, so I'm intolerant. I don't want to explain to my 5 or 7 year old why 2 dudes are kissing or how they are married, and now it is ok, because it is an alternative lifestyle. NO WAY!!! Not on my watch. Let my kids be kids, they don't need to see that shit! And if family businesses like McDonalds or Disney World want to support those Gay groups, so be it. But my family won't be there. So call me intolerant. Tell me my family belongs to a hate group because we won't eat at McDonalds. I'm holding on to my traditional American values. 
> 
> 2) Second, And most important, You said "Hamas is in fact a freedom fighting group"? Your insane! They are a militant group known for numerous suicide bombings against civilians. They are listed as a terrorist group by the USA, Canada, Japan, the UK, ect... Hamas' charter states "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through JIHAD". 
> 
> Do you know what Jihad is? Educate yourself Godfather. They are not freedom fighters, they are terrorists. Yes, terrorism is a tactic of war, for them. *We Americans don't strap bombs to our kids backs and tell them to blow up a bus full of civilians for our political agenda*.


On your first point. There is gonig to be alot of things you have to explain to your kids. Explaining that 2 people care about each other shoudl be the least of your worries

You 2nd point. Ur right we drop the bombs by plane. If you think America isnt a terrosit state also you have some rose colored glasses

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## thegodfather

> Hey Godfather, 2 pionts!
> 
> 1) First, your correct, there are some things I don't want to tolerate, so I'm intolerant. I don't want to explain to my 5 or 7 year old why 2 dudes are kissing or how they are married, and now it is ok, because it is an alternative lifestyle. NO WAY!!! Not on my watch. Let my kids be kids, they don't need to see that shit! And if family businesses like McDonalds or Disney World want to support those Gay groups, so be it. But my family won't be there. So call me intolerant. Tell me my family belongs to a hate group because we won't eat at McDonalds. I'm holding on to my traditional American values. 
> 
> 2) Second, And most important, You said "Hamas is in fact a freedom fighting group"? Your insane! They are a militant group known for numerous suicide bombings against civilians. They are listed as a terrorist group by the USA, Canada, Japan, the UK, ect... Hamas' charter states "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through JIHAD". 
> 
> Do you know what Jihad is? Educate yourself Godfather. They are not freedom fighters, they are terrorists. Yes, terrorism is a tactic of war, for them. We Americans don't strap bombs to our kids backs and tell them to blow up a bus full of civilians for our political agenda.


You obviously failed to grasp the concept with regard to what I was attempting to point out to you. The tactic of terrorism is employed by groups who are oppressed, outgunned, outnumbered, etc.,etc. Just because the Palestinians happen to cloak this tactic in "Jihad" does not make the tactic any less valid, and their effort for FREEDOM any less legitimate. The people of Palestine are starved, depraved, and are all labeled as "security risks" by the state of Israel. The people of Palestine implement this tactic because they lack the ability to effectively confront the Israeli army by conventional warfare tactics. They do not have equivalent weapons, tanks, planes, and other such armaments. The tactic employed by Palestine is used to destroy the will of the Israeli state to continue fighting them and continue subjugating them. 

The tactic used in Palestine was no different than the same tactics used by the IRA against the British occupation of Northern Ireland. Hugely outnumbered and outgunned Irish citizens used the tactic of terrorism to confront a British army they otherwise would have stood no chance against. 

Yet, the stronger power (as they say the victor writes history) always labels these freedom fighters as "terrorists." It is a very simple "us vs. them" psychology being implemented and its largely effective with the masses especially in this country. Our politicians and propagandists have demonized an entire region of the world. 

If you believe for one moment, that if hypothetically, China were to invade and OCCUPY the United States, and the United States citizens having no effective military strength left to confront these occupiers; that you and many other citizens would just roll over and accept this? I believe the answer is no, you would most likely take up the tactic of terrorism against the occupying force. 

If you lack the ability to see the correlation between that hypothetical situation and the current situation of the Iraqi, Palestinian, and Irish peoples, then there is no sense in me continuing to argue with you as you would obviously perferr to live in your bubble of "family values" and that we are "moral" and "they" are not. 

By the way, my education most likely cost more than your mortgage payment.

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## thegodfather

> On your first point. There is gonig to be alot of things you have to explain to your kids. Explaining that 2 people care about each other shoudl be the least of your worries
> 
> You 2nd point. Ur right we drop the bombs by plane. If you think America isnt a terrosit state also you have some rose colored glasses


US Soldiers KILLED: 4,000 (approx)

US Soldiers Wounded: 20,000 (Approx)

Iraqi Civilians KILLED: 1,000,000 (Appox:According to NEJM) 

1/4 of which were combatants, insurgents, etc, and 3/4 of which were civilians/non-combatants/"collateral damage"

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## Billy-the-kid

Ok, your right. I should sit down with my 5 & 7 year old and explain to them the gay lifestyle, and when they are old enough, they might choose a life-partner of the same sex. Your a nut-job! Children at this age don't understand issues like this, and it can become confusing to them. These are adult conversations for parents and their teenage kids to have when they can grasp & understand these sexual issues. I'll do this when the time is right for me and my family. 

Point #2, your right, blame America. We are the real terrorists aren't we? We drop bombs out of planes. We don't fight for freedom or democracy. We are the evil doers!

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## thegodfather

> Ok, your right. I should sit down with my 5 & 7 year old and explain to them the gay lifestyle, and when they are old enough, they might choose a life-partner of the same sex. Your a nut-job! Children at this age don't understand issues like this, and it can become confusing to them. These are adult conversations for parents and their teenage kids to have when they can grasp & understand these sexual issues. I'll do this when the time is right for me and my family. 
> 
> Point #2, your right, blame America. We are the real terrorists aren't we? We drop bombs out of planes. We don't fight for freedom or democracy. We are the evil doers!


In rebuttal to your point#1, if you can call it that- Your children of 5 and 7 are no more likely to understand a person who has downs syndrome, a cleft pallet, or some other such genetic disorder. So too they would not understand a gay couple, and yet there is no difference between them and the aforementioned. Neither people with Trisomy 21 (downs syndrome) or Homosexuals have a choice in the life they lead. Both are genetically pre-determined or pre-dispositioned. Yes, the code of life (DNA) that your God created, created Gays and Retards! I'm not an expert in the bible, but I believe that God loves these people equally correct? 

This is why you assertation is so absurd. Because you would no more likely get any result from asking a person with Downs Syndrome to "keep it to themselves" or to "stop being retarded"; Than you would a gay person to stop being gay. Unfortunately, your children are likely to understand neither condition, but that does not mean that in order to shelter them from the REALITIES OF LIFE that other people have to be subjugated to achieve your goal. How disgustingly hypocritical to mention freedom&democracy and in the same breathe marginalize an entire group of people to 2nd class status. You sir, must be the pillar of what Democracy and Freedom are all about. 


Point #2- We live in a Constitutional Republic. The government is modeled after Democracy. But we are by no means in any possibly way shape or form a true Democracy by definition. Ignoring that little technical error in your statement for a moment, dissenting against the government is one of the most American and patriotic things that a person can do! It is important for people to be critical of their government. 

We most certainly do not fight for Democracy and Freedom. Using that pretext, why have we invaded Iraq, yet ignored Rawanda(1mil killed in genocide), Darfur, and other areas of the world where people are being oppressed. There are 190 countries in the world, 1/2 of which are still governed under one form or another of Totalitarianism. Why aren't you leading the torch of war into those countries to "free" those people? Because the truth is you have involved yourself into a debate on topics with which you have absolutely no knowledge, and no documented research to back up your wild claims. Basically, you are the typical American voter. 

I'll give you a brief lesson in American history. We involved ourselves in several proxy wars with other countries to 'stop the spread of communism', and in so doing killed millions of people. We lost roughly 80,000 soldiers in Vietnam, and killed roughly 3,000,000 Vietnamese civilians! We overthrew Iran's ELECTED DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT in the 1950s and installed the Shah, who was a brutal leader. We fund Pervez Musharraf who is a military dictator, to the tune of 10 Billion UNITED STATES TAX DOLLARS. We have killed roughly 5,000 Panamanian civilians just to secure a canal zone and catch Manuel Norega who was a paid CIA asset to the tune of $150,000 US TAX DOLLARS per year. We have bases in 130 SOVEREIGN COUNTRIES, on other peoples territory. How would we feel if other countries had military bases, with weapons, planes, and tanks, in our neighborhoods? 

You have shown the typical uneducated American viewpoint, that we can do whatever the fu*k we want, tell everyone to go screw, and in the end we are always "RIGHT" for doing it, or god knows, for giving the people we kill and subjugate the "Gift of Democracy." There are about 750,000 dead Iraqi civilians who would probably argue about that whole gift of Democracy thing, if we didnt brutally murder them.

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## Billy-the-kid

Godfather said "By the way, my education most likely cost more than your mortgage" What a pompous liberal puke. 

Sounds like it was not an education, sounds more like you got an indoctrination when you were institutionalzed at some Ivy league college. You can't tell right for wrong, good from evil, freedom fighter form terrorist. 

I just can't seem to comprehend your deep level of understanding as to what your trying to point out to me. Please! We are a good country, with good brave people, so don't throw up some statistics about casualties of war and how 750,00 Iraqi civilians have died as collateral damage. The Iraqi people want us there and they want freedom. We are not occupiers, but helping a young democracy flourish so it will one day stand on it's own. 

One thing you can't learn from an Ivy league college is old fashion common sense.

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## DeputyLoneWolf

> On your first point. There is gonig to be alot of things you have to explain to your kids. Explaining that 2 people care about each other shoudl be the least of your worries
> 
> You 2nd point. Ur right we drop the bombs by plane. If you think America isnt a terrosit state also you have some rose colored glasses


People like you make me sick. If you don't like this great country then shut up and move. America a "Terrorist state" ? Get a life.

I dare you to find a better country to live in. :Owned:

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## Ernst

I love that in America we have the freedom to talk about this and to disagree with each other as much as we want. If you spoke this way in some, nay, many other parts of the world you'd be flirting with fines/jail/torture/execution. I think people sometimes take this for granted.

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## Red Ketchup

> You can't tell right for wrong, good from evil, freedom fighter form terrorist.


Riiight...

So in afghanistan when your government was supplying money and weapons and the afghans were shooting at the soviets, they were "freedom fighters", when those same exact people turned the guns on the USA and started shooting at you, they instantly became "terrorists"?  :Shrug: 

I guess the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is in who is being shot at eh?

Red

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## Billy-the-kid

You are correct Red Ketchup. After the Taliban & Soviet Union war in Afganistan ended in 1989 the following happened:

1) 911. 
2) The Taliban allowed terrorist training camps in Afganistan
3) The Taliban gave refuge to Osama Bin Laden

So yes, after the above listed took place, they went from Freedom fighters to terrorists. Let me put it to you like this. Ever been divorced. At one time your ex was your lover & best friend. Now you think she is a bitch because she took your kids and 1/2 your shit. Get the point. Only your ex did not launch a JIHAD on your ass, the Terrorists did.

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## Tock

> Can't my kid go to Disney World or eat a burger without sexuality being an issue?


Eradicate all trace of sexuality, eh? 

You'd have to eliminate all trace of heterosexuality. No more conspicuous signs of boyfriend/girlfriend, prohibit any sign of parent/child relationship. 

How are you gonna do that?

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## Tock

> Disney World got hurt bad when they promoted their annual Gay Days.


Disney World never promoted Gay Day. Local gay organizations and publications did.

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## gixxerboy1

> People like you make me sick. If you don't like this great country then shut up and move. America a "Terrorist state" ? Get a life.
> 
> I dare you to find a better country to live in.


owned?  :2nono:  Have you ever been outside this country?

What is the difference between what we are doing and what the so called terrorist are doing? Are guys are in uniforms? Bush makes threats on attacking people with so called spreading democracy and freedom. We dont think we are terrorist. Just like our terrorist dont think they are. They think its justified just like we justify what we do.

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## thegodfather

> You are correct Red Ketchup. After the Taliban & Soviet Union war in Afganistan ended in 1989 the following happened:
> 
> 1) 911. 
> 2) The Taliban allowed terrorist training camps in Afganistan
> 3) The Taliban gave refuge to Osama Bin Laden
> 
> So yes, after the above listed took place, they went from Freedom fighters to terrorists. Let me put it to you like this. Ever been divorced. At one time your ex was your lover & best friend. Now you think she is a bitch because she took your kids and 1/2 your shit. Get the point. Only your ex did not launch a JIHAD on your ass, the Terrorists did.



Please get your history straight. It was the Mujahadeen who fought the Soviets, not the Taliban. The Taliban is/was nothing more than a regime. We're expected to engage in a debate with someone who cannot even make a few mouse clicks to check if their limited understanding of international politics is correct? 

Anyway, I found a quote which I believe summarizes my earlier point I was trying to make in who choses who is a "freedom fighter" and who is a "terrorist"





> Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits but according to who does them, and there is almost no kind of outrage  torture, the use of hostages, forced labour, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, forgery, assassination, the bombing of civilians  which does not change its moral colour when it is committed by our side.  The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them. --George Orwell

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## gixxerboy1

Thats a great quote. And truer words were never spoken. 

Just think if another country had a gitmo with our people in it. How would we feel. But most here dont bat an eye that we are doing it

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## Billy-the-kid

[QUOTE=gixxerboy1;4066111]owned? *What is the difference between what we are doing and what the so called terrorist are doing?* 

***WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS***I REPEAT***WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS***

You don't understand the difference between us and them. I love how the liberal mind works (the so called terrorists?). We must remain objective and understand the plight of these people. We could never pass judgement on anyone who does a suicide bombing or hijacks airplains. The Godfather thinks Hamas are freedom fighters and gixxerboy thinks we are terrortist because we drop bombs out of airplanes. 

(gixxerboy1) I love how you call Christains who wont eat at McDonalds a hate group, but you won't call a terrorist a terrorist. 

The terrorists have been attacking us for over 20 years. And don't you dear say we deserve any of it. 

911: 4 hijacked airplanes almost 3,000 daed
2000: USS Cole attacked
1998: US embassies attacked in Kenya
1996: US AIR Force installation attacked in Saudi Araba
1983: US Marine's barracks Blown up in Lebanon, 241 of our men dead
ECT...ECT...ECT...

Do you understand what true evil is?

----------


## gixxerboy1

[QUOTE=Billy-the-kid;4066197]


> owned? *What is the difference between what we are doing and what the so called terrorist are doing?* 
> 
> ***WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS***I REPEAT***WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS***
> 
> You don't understand the difference between us and them. I love how the liberal mind works (the so called terrorists?). We must remain objective and understand the plight of these people. We could never pass judgement on anyone who does a suicide bombing or hijacks airplains. The Godfather thinks Hamas are freedom fighters and gixxerboy thinks we are terrortist because we drop bombs out of airplanes. 
> 
> (gixxerboy1) I love how you call Christains who wont eat at McDonalds a hate group, but you won't call a terrorist a terrorist. 
> 
> The terrorists have been attacking us for over 20 years. And don't you dear say we deserve any of it. 
> ...


seriously have you read anything godfather posted or understand it?

I dont agree with what our terrorist did agianst us. But they have their reasons in their heads why they did it and can justify it to themselves. Just like you can sit here and justify everything we have and are doing. 

Maybe our military bases were attacked because people in that country dont want them there. Do you think if Russia set up a base in California. That nobody would ever try and do anything to it here?

----------


## BgMc31

Billy, Billy, Billy...you keep throwing around the word liberal likes its a bad thing, but the two guys who have had the most valid points on this thread and the main two cats you've been arguing with are true Republican conservatives!

You've never answered there questions about us only being in Iraq and Afganistan and not in Darfur or other much worse places in the world. 

GodFather and Gixxer I really admire your points on this thread but trying to argue with this guy is like banging your head against the wall. He has proven time and time again to be closed-minded.

----------


## thegodfather

[QUOTE=Billy-the-kid;4066197]


> owned? *What is the difference between what we are doing and what the so called terrorist are doing?* 
> 
> ***WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS***I REPEAT***WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS***
> 
> You don't understand the difference between us and them. I love how the liberal mind works (the so called terrorists?). We must remain objective and understand the plight of these people. We could never pass judgement on anyone who does a suicide bombing or hijacks airplains. The Godfather thinks Hamas are freedom fighters and gixxerboy thinks we are terrortist because we drop bombs out of airplanes. 
> 
> (gixxerboy1) I love how you call Christains who wont eat at McDonalds a hate group, but you won't call a terrorist a terrorist. 
> 
> The terrorists have been attacking us for over 20 years. And don't you dear say we deserve any of it. 
> ...



Perhaps that gives you a better glimpse into why the United States is not in the favor of the Middle Eastern people. Perhaps you should stop for a moment and think about the possibility of a foreign power doing all of those same things to your people for the last 100 years. The "terrorist" problem will NEVER be solved unless we UNDERSTAND the people who attacked us and WHY they attacked us. There is no provision in the Constitution of the United States of America to exact Imperialist foreign policies and meddle in the affairs of other SOVEREIGN(look that word up) NATIONS. You went back in history just far enough to try and twist those events to fit your Neo-Conservative Christian agenda! You left out the 40-50 years it took the Middle Eastern peoples to get pissed off enough to blow themselves up. Our death toll PALES in comparison to the amount of death and destruction we have exacted on the Middle East for absolutely no reason other then it was in our best interests to protect oil profits and because we felt "guilty" for not helping the Jews during Nazi Germany. Dont agree? Prove me wrong with documented facts.  :Owned:

----------


## thegodfather

To help you better understand the Israeli-Palestinian conflict I will use an analogy. 

It is equivalent to you(Israeli/Jewish) moving out of your double-wide to a trailer park across the country, and then a few hundred years later deciding that you want to go back to that double-wide(where the Palestinian people moved in and bought it from you). So instead of buying back your trailer, you decided to invade your old trailer park with your Pa's shotgun and kick everyone who had legitimately lived there out into the streets and make them live in tents.

----------


## Billy-the-kid

I can tell you this Godfather, if you think the Palestinians are victims, and they are justified in the way they wage their war by using suicide bombings and blowing up coffee houses; your no conservative. 

Take your 6 figure education and go to the library. Check out a book called "Because They Hate" by Brigitte Gabriel. Read the book. It talks about the Plalestinians, and how they don't want peace, but the total destruction of Israel. As does the entire Middle East. You will learn about the Quran (their religious text) and that Isreal is the little Satan, and us (America) is the big Satan. You will learn why they want us all dead and who the real terrorists are. 

And to answer your question, No, we can't fight for every issue around the world like Durfur. But when someone is a threat to my counrty, my people, my family, my way of life; then it is time to kick ass and take names. 

Your nothing more than an elitist that has disdain for the U.S.A. Our government is not perfect & we are not perfect. But we do have good intensions and we fight for freedom and life. While others fight for death. So if you want to make out a laundry list of every bad thing our government has done, please, be my guest. Your a member of the blame America first crowd.

----------


## DeputyLoneWolf

> owned?  Have you ever been outside this country?
> 
> What is the difference between what we are doing and what the so called terrorist are doing? Are guys are in uniforms? Bush makes threats on attacking people with so called spreading democracy and freedom. We dont think we are terrorist. Just like our terrorist dont think they are. They think its justified just like we justify what we do.


So then which country did you find that you would rather live in? Oh it looks like you couldn't now could you. I'm waiting. And let me restate that: Owned x2

----------


## DeputyLoneWolf

[QUOTE=gixxerboy1;4066219]


> seriously have you read anything godfather posted or understand it?
> 
> I dont agree with what our terrorist did agianst us. But they have their reasons in their heads why they did it and can justify it to themselves. Just like you can sit here and justify everything we have and are doing. 
> 
> Maybe our military bases were attacked because people in that country dont want them there. Do you think if Russia set up a base in California. That nobody would ever try and do anything to it here?



This statement shows that you have no sense of right and wrong and believe that if we can justify something in our own mind then its ok no matter what, even if its strapping a bomb to one's chest and blowing up innocent men women and children. There are absolutes and people need to remove the blinders and see that. If I said that it was not wrong in my mind to kill you and that my pastor told me to I bet you would have a problem with that. Am I right? 

But lets say I was an Iraqi and my religious teacher told me to go blow up civilians in Iraq? What you are saying is that that would be just fine because I can justify it in my own mind. You make no sense and it's sad...

----------


## DeputyLoneWolf

> To help you better understand the Israeli-Palestinian conflict I will use an analogy. 
> 
> It is equivalent to you(Israeli/Jewish) moving out of your double-wide to a trailer park across the country, and then a few hundred years later deciding that you want to go back to that double-wide(where the Palestinian people moved in and bought it from you). So instead of buying back your trailer, you decided to invade your old trailer park with your Pa's shotgun and kick everyone who had legitimately lived there out into the streets and make them live in tents.



I don't expect you to understand this but this is the truth. God gave the Israieli people Israel. That is there land given to them by God's own hand period. And just watch as the future unfolds, they will keep it no matter who tries to take it from them.

----------


## Tock

> I don't expect you to understand this but this is the truth. God gave the Israieli people Israel. That is there land given to them by God's own hand period.


Nonsense.

Whatever makes you think this is true?

----------


## spywizard

> Of course they have that right not to go there. What do you call it? they discriminate against people who are gay or support them. IMO that is a hate group. 
> 
> Lol im not a liberial. Just because i dont use a fiction book to run my life you think i am? You dont want gay stuff forced down your throught. well thats how i feel about religion. I sick of everyone thanking god. Having to see these dumb god bill boards. And not to mention a church on every corner


So using your logic.. are all gays (i assume they are not) are they all part of a hate group?? Seems they boycott a lot of business to get them to change.. ie, forcing a reaction, or action.. it's a Rhetorical question.

*http://current.com/items/89049343_ga...for_pulling_ad*

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## DeputyLoneWolf

> Nonsense.
> 
> Whatever makes you think this is true?


It is not nonsense, thats exactly where he led them after they came out of Egypt. 

And before you just dismiss it as nonsense you need to read the Bible as a history book. There are no errors in it and if you are open minded enough to read it you will see that.

----------


## gixxerboy1

> So using your logic.. are all gays (i assume they are not) are they all part of a hate group?? Seems they boycott a lot of business to get them to change.. ie, forcing a reaction, or action.. it's a Rhetorical question.
> 
> *http://current.com/items/89049343_ga...for_pulling_ad*


I know you said it’s rhetorical but I would like to answer. It would depend on the reason they are boycotting. If it was because they packaging was bad for the environment. Or the way they made their nuggets was inhumane or some other possible legit reason then no. If Gays boycotted because McDonalds joined a Chamber of Commerce to another group. Yes. What if McDonalds joined the black chamber of commerce? You don’t think it’s the same if the AMA boycotted them then?

Just watched that video. I dont think thats a reason to boycott. But like i said everyone has the rights to do it. But when the reason they are boyotting are from discrmination i think thats a hate group

----------


## gixxerboy1

[QUOTE=DeputyLoneWolf;4066958]


> This statement shows that you have no sense of right and wrong and believe that if we can justify something in our own mind then its ok no matter what, even if its strapping a bomb to one's chest and blowing up innocent men women and children. There are absolutes and people need to remove the blinders and see that. If I said that it was not wrong in my mind to kill you and that my pastor told me to I bet you would have a problem with that. Am I right? 
> 
> But lets say I was an Iraqi and my religious teacher told me to go blow up civilians in Iraq? What you are saying is that that would be just fine because I can justify it in my own mind. You make no sense and it's sad...


apparently you didnt understand what i wrote. No im not saying it is justified. But to them it is. Yes the strap bomb to their chest and blow shit up it is wrong. But to them it isnt. We drop bombs from planes and blow shit up. To most of the US that is justified to. But it is still wrong. They have no other means but suiced bombs. So thats thier last resort. Do think if they had an air force they would use it. So they are fighting the only way they can

----------


## thegodfather

> I don't expect you to understand this but this is the truth. God gave the Israieli people Israel. That is there land given to them by God's own hand period. And just watch as the future unfolds, they will keep it no matter who tries to take it from them.


If that is the case, then why didn't God come down and conquer the land for them? Why did the United States&UK have to intervene and give the Israeli people billions of dollars worth of weapoons and training to take the land back? That was the United States&UK, NOT God. And if memory serves the state of Israel was not supposed to be established until AFTER Armageddon. 

Anyway your statement about them ONLY using suicide bombs is also without merit. One of the key things they use are roadside bombs made from unexploded ordinane, they are called I.E.D.'s, Improvised Explosive Devises. In Palestine (had YOU taken the time to EDUCATE YOURSELF) you would know that one of Israel's main greivances is that Palestinians fire over 800 Qassam Rockets into Israel on a yearly basis. Palestinians also confront the Israeli army infrequently, kidnapping soldiers at times (I.e.- PRISONERS OF WAR!!). *Yet while we do the same thing we can sit here comfortably and detest their actions against us, whilst our actions against them are JUSTIFIED!* While you sit here comfortably and detest the way our prisoners are treated when they are abducted in those foreign lands, you probably cannot imagine the pain and suffering of MILLIONS of people at the behest of the United States military. 

A war, which by the way, was started on the WHIM of an Executive branch that never had its power checked by the other two branches of government. A war which was NOT DECLARED BY CONGRESS, making it an illegal and unjustified act. Read the Constitution, you cannot goto war without a declaration. 

*I am more scared of the people like you who live within my borders that want to spend this country into unwinable wars and murder millions of people because your "God" told you to, then I am of a people who just want us to get off of their land!*

----------


## Tock

> It is not nonsense, thats exactly where he led them after they came out of Egypt. 
> 
> And before you just dismiss it as nonsense you need to read the Bible as a history book. There are no errors in it and if you are open minded enough to read it you will see that.


"Read the bible as a history book," eh?

Well, tell me this, if you would be so kind . . .

The first chapter of the book of Exodus tells us there were more Hebrews in Egypt at that time than there were Egyptians. So, after Moses finally led his people out of the country, and after the Egyptian military was completely obliterated, why is it that the only record of these two nation-breaking events is found in the pages of the Hebrew scriptures?

Archeologists and historians have been digging in the middle east for quite a long time now, and have recovered a wealth of artifacts that enable them to piece together quite a detailed record of what has happened in the region for the past several thousand years. With this in mind, doesn't it strike you as rather odd that nobody else would have noticed and recorded Egypt's weakened military condition? Isn't it odd that none of the competing kingdoms of the time attempted an invasion?

I hate to be the first to tell you this, but the story of the Exodus as portrayed in the bible, well, it never happened. It is a fiction, a fable, a story, much like the tale of Paul Bunyan, Johnny Appleseed, or Santa Claus. And while it is not difficult to find folks of a fundamentalist viewpoint that embrace these stories (indeed, their entire theology would shatter if they entertained a notion that any part of the Bible was less than 100% literal and 100% reliabe and true), the majority of scholars (many of whom consider themselves to be Christian) who study this stuff do not.

I understand that many people would like to think that the Bible is a gift from a supernatural god, and that it is 100% inerrant. But, alas, it is not.
Nobody knows who the anonymous authors are who wrote the first 5 books of the Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Levitiicus, Numbers, Deuteronomy), or much of the rest of it. 


Here's a little challenge that you can take to your clergyman . . .

Kings did not rule over Israel until Saul, who was the immediate predecessor to King David, who lived about 1000 BC. However, in the Book of Genesis, which purports to offer a first-hand account of Noah's flood, the Tower of Babel, and the destruction of Sodom & Gomorrah, there's a curious little verse nestled in amongst the begats in Chapter 36. It reads,

_Genesis 36:31 -- And these are the kings that reigned in the land of Edom, before there reigned any king over the children of Israel._ 

Ask your pastor to explain to you how the person who wrote the accounts of Adam & Eve, the Exodus, and Noah's Flood, ask him how that fellow could have known about kings who ruled over Israel.
If he is a reasonable clergyman, he would suggest that probably, the book of Genesis and all of its tales of floods and Adam & Eve and etc. were most likely written after the time when kings ruled over Israel. If he turns out not to be a reasonable fellow, I'm sure you'll be able to find a spiritual leader who will prove to be a more reliable source of information.

Another amusing challenge:
Calculate the total square footage available on Noah's Ark from the information provided in the Bible (I'll give you a hint: it's close to 2.5 acres). Then explain how between 2 and 7 of every species of animal on the planet managed to fit in the Ark, along with enough food and water to feed them for 14 months (which is the time, you will recall, they were shut up inside the boat). 
For extra credit, explain how kangaroos managed to swim across the sea, from the middle east, through Asia, to Australia? 

Just for grins, were there dinosaurs on Noah's Ark, or not? Most reasonable people would not make that claim. But look at what these folks have to say, and tell me if you agree:

www.icr.org/store/index.php?main_page=pubs_product_book_info&cPath=4 8&products_id=2265


--------------
I got so wrapped up in my little discourse that I forgot to mention what the point of it all was . . .

The Bible is pretty much a work of fiction. Sure, there's some historical names and dates and places it provides that have worked out ok, but on the big stuff, like global floods and the Exodus and whether or not people should take the Bible's advice and execute witches, gays, and sabbath-breakers, while selling our daughters into slavery, it's "iffy." The Hebrew's claim to middle east property is based on another "iffy" proposition, namely, that the events outlined in the Book of Exodus actually happened. IMHO, I don't think they did. You can make up your own mind, but I hope that you do so after looking into the matter a bit more, and see what "respected experts" on several sides of the issue have to say, and what their opinion is based upon . . .

I dunno about you, but I'm heading out for a McDonald's . . .

----------


## Billy-the-kid

*[QUOTE=thegodfather;4067476]

A war, which by the way, was started on the WHIM of an Executive branch that never had its power checked by the other two branches of government. A war which was NOT DECLARED BY CONGRESS, making it an illegal and unjustified act. Read the Constitution, you cannot goto war without a declaration.* [B][SIZE="2"]


This is called selective amnesia. in 2002 the House voted 296-133 and the Senate voted 77-20 to authorize President Bush to attack Iraq if Saddam Hussein refuses to give up weapons of mass destruction. 

TheGodfather is the enemy within. Not only do we have to fight terrorists around the world, but we have justify our right to defend ourselves against these people. Anytime they get an opportunity to make our President, Military, or Country look bad; they do. They never have anything positive to say about the USA and never have anything negative to say about our enemys (the people who want our infidel asses dead)!

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## Tock

It's time to take a break, kids . . . Let's all go to McDonalds!

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## j4ever41

haha thats funny tock.

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## spywizard

> I know you said its rhetorical but I would like to answer. It would depend on the reason they are boycotting. If it was because they packaging was bad for the environment. Or the way they made their nuggets was inhumane or some other possible legit reason then no. If Gays boycotted because McDonalds joined a Chamber of Commerce to another group. Yes. What if McDonalds joined the black chamber of commerce? You dont think its the same if the AMA boycotted them then?
> 
> Just watched that video. I dont think thats a reason to boycott. But like i said everyone has the rights to do it. But when the reason they are boyotting are from discrmination i think thats a hate group



so you are an advocate for situational ethics as long as those reasons or justifications met the standards that = your acceptable code of conduct?? 

you can see where this is going don't you??

----------


## spywizard

[quote=Billy-the-kid;4067541]*




 Originally Posted by thegodfather



A war, which by the way, was started on the WHIM of an Executive branch that never had its power checked by the other two branches of government. A war which was NOT DECLARED BY CONGRESS, making it an illegal and unjustified act. Read the Constitution, you cannot goto war without a declaration.


*


> [b][size="2"]
> 
> 
> This is called selective amnesia. in 2002 the House voted 296-133 and the Senate voted 77-20 to authorize President Bush to attack Iraq if Saddam Hussein refuses to give up weapons of mass destruction. 
> 
> TheGodfather is the enemy within. Not only do we have to fight terrorists around the world, but we have justify our right to defend ourselves against these people. Anytime they get an opportunity to make our President, Military, or Country look bad; they do. They never have anything positive to say about the USA and never have anything negative to say about our enemys (the people who want our infidel asses dead)!


that's because they are jealous, (they in their own mind will never be good enough)

Its hard being so pretty "Mohammad Ali"

----------


## Tock

> haha thats funny tock.


Ya . . . I saw Billy-The-Kid there, too. Turns out he's an ok guy; he paid for my cheeseburger . . .
But, I had to let him say grace . . .

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## SMCengineer

> *This is called selective amnesia.* in 2002 the House voted 296-133 and the Senate voted 77-20 to authorize President Bush to attack Iraq if Saddam Hussein refuses to give up weapons of mass destruction.


Actually, it's called ignorance at it's finest. An "Authorization for the use of Military Force" is _not_ a *Declaration of War* and is the antithesis of conservatism. The "Authorization for the use of military force" essentially removed the legislative process and relinquished Congresses power/responsibilty of Declaring War to the executive branch, which was basicaly done for political reasons (ie not being responsible for voting on a Declaration of War and losing votes because of it). I suppose you also believe the war was justified because the UN gave us permission to invade?




> TheGodfather is the enemy within. Not only do we have to fight terrorists around the world, but we have justify our right to defend ourselves against these people. Anytime they get an opportunity to make our President, Military, or Country look bad; they do. They never have anything positive to say about the USA and never have anything negative to say about our enemys (the people who want our infidel asses dead)!


Anyone who believes that fighting the "terroists in Iraq" is more important than capturing Osama Bin Laden is the enemy within. I doubt TheGodfather is one of those people, but you sure seem to believe that "Islamofascists" (whatever the hell that even means) are the real threat. I see you also like to use jingoiistic rhetoric as though saying something bad about the president is anti-patriotic or insulting to the military. Do you take your talking points directly from Karl Rove or FOX news? Critizing the government (re: not the people or the military) is what essentially led to the constitution and the birth of America.

----------


## Billy-the-kid

First , I do think the war was justified and we need to send every one of those terrorist bastards a one way ticket to see Allah.

Second, I believe fighting terrorists in Iraq and finding Osama Bin Laden are equally important. 

Let me ask you Blome: who is the real threat to the American people; President Bush or the terrorists?

It seems some people only have negative things to say about the USA, the President, and the military. And you sit there and call that patriotic. I bet it would take you and the Godfather 2 hours before you could come up with 3 positive things to say about "our counrty". 

And finally, FOX news is to liberal for me, I only listen to talk radio!!!!!

----------


## SMCengineer

> First , I do think the war was justified and we need to send every one of those terrorist bastards a one way ticket to see Allah.
> 
> Second, I believe fighting terrorists in Iraq and finding Osama Bin Laden are equally important. 
> 
> Let me ask you Blome: who is the real threat to the American people; President Bush or the terrorists?
> 
> It seems some people only have negative things to say about the USA, the President, and the military. And you sit there and call that patriotic. I bet it would take you and the Godfather 2 hours before you could come up with 3 positive things to say about "our counrty". 
> 
> And finally, FOX news is to liberal for me, I only listen to talk radio!!!!!


God I wish you weren't banned cause I would rip this post apart.

----------


## Nicotine

[QUOTE=Billy-the-kid;4064910]That just shows how out of touch with reality you are. Is Hamas or the Taliban freedom fighters, or are they a hate group? Don't call them terrorists, we may offend someone. The KKK is a hate group my friend, Christains are not. 

QUOTE]

hamas and taliban freedom fighters fight, out of hate.

kkk is hate.

not ALL christians hate...... but, i dont have a family because when i came out, all of a sudden over night i became a horrible person and that they were going to hell if they even so much talked to me.

my mother said "god will give you aids, then we wil all be free".

how is that not hate?

----------


## Tock

[quote=Nicotine;4076620]


> That just shows how out of touch with reality you are. Is Hamas or the Taliban freedom fighters, or are they a hate group? Don't call them terrorists, we may offend someone. The KKK is a hate group my friend, Christains are not. 
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> hamas and taliban freedom fighters fight, out of hate.
> 
> kkk is hate.
> 
> not ALL christians hate...... but, i dont have a family because when i came out, all of a sudden over night i became a horrible person and that they were going to hell if they even so much talked to me.
> ...


That's terrible. Tragic, ignorant, and yes, hateful too.

Some parents kick their underage kids out when they discover that they're gay. Leave 'em to fend for themselves on the street. 

How can they do that to their own kids, I'll never know.

----------


## J.S.N.

those people are bigots. these same fat crackers who're protesting against the gays now were probably doing the same thing against the coloreds in the 1960's.

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## BgMc31

> those people are bigots. these same fat crackers who're protesting against the gays now were probably doing the same thing against the coloreds in the 1960's.


ummmmm we're not called 'colored' anymore brotha...

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## inheritmylife

> those people are bigots. these same fat crackers who're protesting against the gays now were probably doing the same thing against the coloreds in the 1960's.


Awesome...

----------


## Tock

> That's terrible. Tragic, ignorant, and yes, hateful too.
> 
> Some parents kick their underage kids out when they discover that they're gay. Leave 'em to fend for themselves on the street. 
> 
> How can they do that to their own kids, I'll never know.


Here's a case in point where Bible teachings cause family breakups:
http://www.independentmail.com/news/...-gay-son-home/

*Anderson man chases gay son from home*

By Pearce Adams (Contact)
Originally published 05:53 a.m., July 18, 2008
Updated 05:53 a.m., July 18, 2008 


ANDERSON COUNTY — Violence broke out Sunday in Anderson when an 18-year-old man returned home from a gay pride parade and was assaulted by his father.

According to the Anderson County Sheriff's Office, the battering took place about 1 p.m. Sunday on P Street.
During the assault, the teen's 49-year-old father yelled, cursed, swung a baseball bat, prayed and tried to “cast the demon of homosexuality out of him,” according to the teen's version of events to Deputy S.C. Weymouth, the incident report states.

About 2 p.m. Wednesday, the teen said his father punched him when he returned to the house for clothes that he left on Sunday, the report states.

The teen told deputies that his father “has a problem with him being gay and that is why he hit him with the baseball bat Sunday,” Weymouth said in his report.

The teen filed both complaints about 10 p.m. Wednesday.

Deputies, who have not been able to make immediate contact with the teen's father, report that both incidents are under investigation.

----------


## IronReload04

> About 77% of all Americans are Christains. When you have a "Family Business" like McDonald's that has a play area for our children; a good business practice would be to stay neutarl on the gay issue. 
> 
> What the Hell is the National Gay & Lesbian Chamer of Commerce anyway? This very small special interest group has no real economic muscle behind it. This is just Left Coast B.S. If you'r gay, that is fine with me; but stay out of my face with it. I don't care who you sleep with, and I don't care, keep it to yourself. 
> 
> Disney World got hurt bad when they promoted their annual Gay Days. Nothing is sacred to the "Left" anymore. Can't my kid go to Disney World or eat a burger without sexuality being an issue?




homosexuality does not equal molestation.....

----------


## Carlos_E

Public Utility Opposes Prop 8

Pacific Gas & Electric (PG&E), the largest public utility company in Northern California, has announced that they oppose Proposition 8, the anti-gay marriage amendment. 

Giving a financial and public relations boost to gay marriage proponents, PG&E announced today that it is giving $250,000 to the No on Proposition 8 campaign.

The utility also said it will spearhead the formation of a business advisory council that will seek to get other businesses around California to to defeat the ballot initiative that would amend the state constitution to define marriage as only between a man and a woman.

AT&T and Wells Fargo have also contributed to efforts to opposite this discriminatory amendment.

I wonder if those Northern California anti-gays who are boycotting McDonalds are willing to stand on principle. Will they be willing to go without water and power, or does their passion only extend to changing burger brands?

 :LOL:

----------


## Flagg

> It is not nonsense, thats exactly where he led them after they came out of Egypt. 
> 
> And before you just dismiss it as nonsense you need to read the Bible as a history book. There are no errors in it and if you are open minded enough to read it you will see that.


History book? So you believe the earth is only 10,000 years old and that God created it in 7 days, you ****ING MORON. Go to a natural history museum and find out about carbon dating. While you're there, see if they have fossils of dinosaurs, you know, those life forms that were ommited from the Bible and whose ancient remains that produces oil that we are so addicted to? But let me guess, God put those bones there. We're not supposed to understand the ways of God, etc. 

Conveniant.

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## mirandavanz

> Hey Godfather, 2 pionts!
> 
> 1) First, your correct, there are some things I don't want to tolerate, so I'm intolerant. I don't want to explain to my 5 or 7 year old why 2 dudes are kissing or how they are married, and now it is ok, because it is an alternative lifestyle. NO WAY!!! Not on my watch. Let my kids be kids, they don't need to see that shit! And if family businesses like McDonalds or Disney World want to support those Gay groups, so be it. But my family won't be there. So call me intolerant. Tell me my family belongs to a hate group because we won't eat at McDonalds. I'm holding on to my traditional American values. 
> 
> 2) Second, And most important, You said "Hamas is in fact a freedom fighting group"? Your insane! They are a militant group known for numerous suicide bombings against civilians. They are listed as a terrorist group by the USA, Canada, Japan, the UK, ect... Hamas' charter states "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through JIHAD". 
> 
> Do you know what Jihad is? Educate yourself Godfather. They are not freedom fighters, they are terrorists. Yes, terrorism is a tactic of war, for them. We Americans don't strap bombs to our kids backs and tell them to blow up a bus full of civilians for our political agenda.


Jihad actually means striving so they may have meant it as such and not how some other groups have defined it.

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## Ernst

> Jihad actually means striving so they may have meant it as such and not how some other groups have defined it.


Striving to kill Israelis? Their actions speak volumes as to what they think it means. They bomb civilians.

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## xlxBigSexyxlx



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## spywizard

> 



well, things change, people do as well, after all here's some information for ya, and a little research will show the "Why and Who" is forcing the change.. 

Welcome to Today.. So all of you be tolerant when your child has sex with an adult male, when she or he is 12... 13...14... and the male is 21 or 42.. con't complain.. tolerance.. go figure..

The Age of Consent

UK 16
*Croatia 14*


Canada 14
*Czech Republic 15*

Sweden 15
France 15
Denmark 15
Finland 15
German 14
Iceland 14
Italy 14 
San Marino 14
Slovenia 14
Hungary 14
*Lithuania  14*

*Until 1993, male homosexual acts were prohibited under the Lithuanian Penal Code, Article 1221, which was repealed in that year. The new law set an age of consent of 17 for male oral and anal intercourse, 16 for other male homosexual acts, and 14 for lesbian and heterosexual acts. In 2004, the law was amended to equalise the age of consent at 14 for all sexual acts.*

*Serbia is 14*


Spain 12
*History*

Homosexual acts had been legal in Spain from 1822 to 1933, (with the exception of the offence of “habitual homosexual acts" in the years 1928-32) and even not specifically mentioned there, some homosexuals where arrested under the "Ley de Vagos y Maleantes" (Law against the Lazy and common deliquents) during the 2nd Spanish republic. Homosexual acts were illegal during Francisco Franco's regime, which created a specific law against them (Ley de Peligrosidad Social). A new Criminal Code was introduced in 1995 which specified an age of consent of 12 under Article 181f for all sexual acts; and this was raised to *13* in 1999.

Michael Swift
Writer
Gay Community News

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## Tock

> Welcome to Today.. So all of you be tolerant when your child has sex with an adult male, when she or he is 12... 13...14... and the male is 21 or 42.. con't complain.. tolerance.. go figure..


Most, if not all, of those age of consent laws do allow fairly young adolescents to have sex, yes, but only with other adolescents no more than 2 years older/younger than them. 

A while back an 18 year old was sent to prison for having sex with a 17 year old. I forget the state, but because of that, the laws in that state were changed to allow a 2-year fudge factor. Which is, IMHO, an excellent idea. 

There's no need to make things seem like it's open season for inter-generational sex, because it's not. Kids under 18 are still well-protected. 
What still seems to be a big problem, though, is polygamy. There doesn't seem to be enough young girls to supply the demand here in Texas, or in other parts of the western states. And there doesn't seem to be much stomach to enforce polygamy laws, either, surprisingly enough, despite graphic TV coverage of the ravages engendered from this practice.

The problem is not with gay sex, or with gays looking for sex with minors. You'll be hard pressed to find evidence that folks of your orientation (heterosexual) are more likely to abuse children than gays. And you'll be hard pressed to justify all the child neglect, abuse, and abandonment on the part of heterosexuals, which results in lots (billions) of tax $$$ for welfare (which gay people end up having to help support). And also, you'll be hard pressed to justify different age of consent laws for heterosexuals and gay people, or justifying any law that criminalizes homosexuality. 

Seems to me that the #1 thing that Americans could do to save traditional marriage is to make divorce illegal. How many Americans get divorced every year? I dunno, but it's a lot. And it leaves families in shambles; broken homes, kids in poverty, ugh. 

But what gets more attention instead? Gay marriage. What's the bigger problem? Heterosexual marriage. 

Well, here's the solution: Some folks have started up an effort to save traditional marriage in various states by banning divorce:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/pro...ohibit-divorce
*A Petition for a California State Proposition that Prohibits Divorce** Between Heterosexual Married Couples*

_Divorce destroys the sanctity of marriage and its powerful influence on the betterment of society. This proposition would keep the very meaning of marriage from being transformed into nothing more than a contractual relationship between two adults. Prohibiting divorce between heterosexual married couples will keep the interests of children and families intact. We will continue to celebrate marriage as the union of husband and wife, not as a relationship between "Party A" and "Party B." The marriage of a man and a woman has been at the heart of society since the beginning of time and it promotes the ideal opportunity for children to be raised by a mother and a father in a family held together by the legal, communal, and spiritual bonds of marriage. As a society we should put the best interests of children first, and those interests lie in traditional marriage. Permitting divorce destroys marriage as we know it and causes a profound harm to society. We should be restoring marriage, not undermining it.

And for those of you who voted yes on Prop 8 but disagree with this petition...Why? This petition is copied and pasted from literature from your website, ProtectMarriage.com, but applied to Divorce instead of Gay Marriage. So how can you argue with your own words?_

Lots of folks quote from religious books to justify anti-gay laws. 
Fine.
Will those same people quote from religious books to justify anti-divorce laws? Probably not. But One popular religious figure is quoted thusly:

Matthew 5--
"31": It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 
"32": But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. 

Seems that the same source that bans gay sex also bans divorce. 


Read it and weep . . .

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## spywizard

> Most, if not all, of those age of consent laws do allow fairly young adolescents to have sex, yes, but only with other adolescents no more than 2 years older/younger than them. .


Nope, you need to do more research.. google is a wonderful tool.. 

It is in most cases for male sex with children, some of those countries have a 3-4 year age difference is allowed.. but in many of them the laws are changed due to the efforts of the organization i stated.. 

And Satan can quote scripture just the same as anyone.

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## Tock

> Nope, you need to do more research.. google is a wonderful tool.. 
> 
> It is in most cases for male sex with children, some of those countries have a 3-4 year age difference is allowed..


Ok, so your point here is . . . what?










> but in many of them the laws are changed due to the efforts of the organization i stated..


Which organization was that?

Doesn't make much difference, really, who supports the principle of equality under the law. Why require women to be 21 years old to vote while men can vote at 18? 
Well, we don't, because it would be stupid to do so.

It's just as stupid to let women have sex at 12 but make males wait until they're 14. Some states have such laws, and there's no rational reason to keep them.











> And Satan can quote scripture just the same as anyone.


The Devil, you say . . . Did you have any scripture-quoting fellow in mind?  :Frown:  

Surely it wasn't me. After all, "what's good for the goose is good for the gander." If fundamentalists say the Bible is good enough for gays to live by, then it ought to be good enough for fundamentalist to live by.


As the central character of the Bible is reputed to have said, 

Matthew 23:
"23": Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 
"24": Ye blind guides, which strain at _gay marriage_, and swallow _legalized divorce_. 
"25": Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 



So, for the fundamentalists who want American law to more closely reflect the rules and commandments in the Bible, for those who think that the Bible gives enough reason to deny equal rights and responsibilities to gays, let me ask you this (it's a rhetorical question, BTW):
When are y'all going to "protect the family" and "protect traditional marriage" by insisting that divorce be made illegal?


*Mark, chapter 10*



"1": And he arose from thence, and cometh into the coasts of Judaea by the farther side of Jordan: and the people resort unto him again; and, as he was wont, he taught them again. 

"2": And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. 

"3": And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? 

"4": And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. 

"5": And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 

"6": But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 

"7": For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 

"8": And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 

"9": What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 

"10": And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter. 

"11": And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. 

"12": And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. 

---------------

Yep, Satan may well be able to quote from the Bible. But it's Pharasees and hypocrites who require everyone except themselves to abide by it.

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## DSM4Life

http://break.com/index/dancing-for-salvation.html

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