# FITNESS and NUTRITION FORUM > WORKOUT AND TRAINING >  So.... you want abs....

## dan991

and you think its impossible, you do crunches, etc., etc., etc. First of all- EVERYONE has abs. You want a deep 6 pack... work for it! Abs are NOT genetic... they are earned! Yes- some of it is diet and body fat; but not as much as you think. You can be as high as 12-14% body fat and still have a fully visible deep six pack. 

To build abs like you see on the cover of Men's Health; you need to understand how your abdominal wall is built. Most people focus on hitting only the outer abdominal muscles (rectus abdominis & external oblique) when a majority of "the look" actually comes from you internal ab muscles (transversus abdomins & internal oblique).



It is VERY hard to hit the internal ab muscles; crunches, conventional leg lifts, and side bends barely hit them and you'll never get anywhere near failure by doing those exercises. Chances are- you already have enough outer ab muscle mass to give you the look you want; now you need to define it which will happen when your internal abs are up to par. 

When you start building your internal abs, two things happen and sometimes very quickly. First- your internal abs will start to "suck in" your stomach. You will visibly see that within a couple months your midsection will get smaller. Take a side view picture now- and take one a couple months down the road. You will see that width of your trunk has changed and you've gotten thinner. This is because the internal obliques will bring in your entire abdominal wall. 

Second, you will start to see definition of the outer abdominal muscles. This is because the internal abdominal muscles "tuck under" the outer abdominal muscles and will push your outer abs outwards giving you that deep cut look. This is where you are going to see your "6 pack". Essentially, you have two muscles stacking on top of each other. To have a 6 pack- this MUST happen and it will. The outer ab muscles by themselves can only get so big and you need the inner ab muscles for the definition.

The difference between this



and this



is the inner ab muscles and how well they are built. If you have the first pic already- you've probably never really hit your internal abs.

There are a few common mistakes that most make that need to be addressed before we go into the work out.

*#1* Put down the weights. Do NOT use weights when working ab muscles. Ab muscles are small- and weights won't help you get a 6 pack. Forget doing crunches with plates and using the ab machine at the gym. Usually you will end up with a "girdle" appearance meaning you have little definition and just a hard puffy stomach. You'll end up looking bloated more than anything; which will make it even harder to get the look you want.

*#2*  Don't over train- 2 maybe 3 times a week tops. Start out with one. After a few months go to two, and then after a year move into 3. 

*#3*  Quality over quantity- the number of reps does not matter; its how well you do those reps that counts. Cheating doesn't help you- it hurts you. You end up teaching your body that the motion you are trying to accomplish needs secondary muscles (i.e. back, hip flexors, etc.) to complete the motion. That's not a good thing- you need complete isolation. One good rep is better than 5 bad ones and the higher rep counts will come over time.

*#4* Crunches- those are warm up. They aren't primary building/toning exercises. The reason they are not is because there are so many other muscles involved with doing a crunch that you will never exhaust all the ab muscles to get you where you want to be. It will take you a decade of doing crunches to get what you want. 

*#5* Speed & Failure- There is no rest between sets here; because you need to get to failure every single time. That's hard to do when you take breaks between sets. All the sets below should be done back to back with the only rest being the time it takes you to get from one work out station to the next in the gym. Do the sets in sequence back to back with no rest; you'll get faster gains because you are putting constant stress on the abdominal wall. 

*#6*  Do the whole routine- every time. You want to hit your abdominal muscles from multiple angles. Like I said earlier- reps don't matter. If you can only do a couple reps and you hit failure; move on to the next exercise.

Before I get to the routine, one thing that you need to remember is that there are two important rules that applies to every single exercise. The first one is always keep your core tight. The second is to let your core do all the work. Its easy to cheat with your shoulders, back, etc. Focus on using only your abs. You will cheat- its almost impossible not to especially at the beginning; but focus on using your core.

To help minimize cheating and having to worry about other things, I highly recommend you use these arm slings:



Some gyms already have them and if not, do yourself and favor and buy your own. They are relatively in-expensive and you can take them to the gym with you. Its hard to focus on working your core when you have to worry about holding yourself up and stopping yourself from swinging. These will help you focus on keeping all the tension on your core. You can connect them to the pull up bar, the smith machine, etc. I use mine at the gym but also use them at home with one of those door frame pull up bars, or you can hang them in a basement from a metal bar in between a floor beam.

Here is each exercise. If I can find it, there will be a link to a video showing you how to do it, as well as any important notes.

*Decline Bench Crunches:* This one is obvious. Just a standard crunch on a decline bench. An important note- THIS IS A WARM UP exercise. At first, do 10-15-20 whatever you can to failure. You can take a small breather after this before moving into the actual routine. After this though- no rest.

*Hanging Leg Lifts:* You've probably done these before. Some important notes however are that first; it doesn't matter how high you come up. You don't have to bring your legs up any higher than your waist to make an L of your body. The most important thing is focusing all the tension on your core and using your ab muscles to bring you legs up. You do not want to be swinging to bring your legs up. You want a very controlled rep both up and down. A good way to time it is to count to 5 both ways as your legs travel. You want to bring your legs up and back down in a controlled fashion while keeping your core tight and focusing on your abs doing all the work. You will feel some pressure in your hip flexors and maybe in your groin. That means that your abs are weak and other muscles are trying to kick in to assist; that's a good thing because it also means you're hitting your abs. The hip flexor/groin feeling will go away with time as your abs get stronger. Here is a video link to this exercise, but don't pay attention to how high she is going up as it doesn't matter. You can go up only a foot and still get the same impact to your ab muscles. Focus on not swaying and cheating with other muscles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_QQ1QJ-4ig

*Hanging Leg Kicks:* This one is pretty simple. You're hanging and kicking like your swimming. Here's a video to something similar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CjXU94jdGU Now.. you want to do this hanging, and you don't have to kick very far. 4-6 inches is fine and you don't have to bring your legs up very far. The trick is to keep your core tight while you are doing it. Because your kicking, your going to start rocking a little. Use your core to stop the rocking. That is where the actual work out is; not from kicking. 

*Hanging Side Leg Lifts:* These are hard, really hard- but they work and quickly. This is what these look like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWYLp2G8ixU

Keep legs completely straight (don't bring your knees up). You can do these side to side (with a pause in the middle) but its better to do one side at a time. One day you'll be able to not rock at all as well as not move your upper body above your waist. Keep your core tight and focus on moving your legs up and sideways (at the same time) without rotating your upper body above your waist and rocking. This is the exercise that gets rid of love handles and sucks in your stomach as its hitting your inner obliques directly and your outer obliques can't help them. You will feel this in your hip flexors, and again that will go away with time. Failure with these is considered to be when your upper body starts swaying. When that happens- stop and move on to the next exercise. Be happy if you can do more than 3 reps without cheating. I can do 30 on each side after 2 years. Now I do 10 on each side and hold for 10 seconds when I get to the top.

*Hanging V:* These are sometimes hard to explain. Essentially you are doing the exact same thing as the Hanging Leg raise; except as you bring your legs up you start to spread them in a controlled fashion so when your legs are waist high they make a V. Control it back down and bring the V back in so when you are at rest your feet are touching again. This is a transition exercise from outer ab to inner ab. This is where you start to get into muscle control and one day you'll be able to "roll" your stomach like this dude (watch at 25 second mark): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sldbsAzqf8

*Wood Chop High to Low:* This is a good one. Here is a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbscBF209CY however a few things. First of all, use one hand and put the other behind your back. Second- go from as high up as you can, and come all the way down to your toes. You want to try and touch your toes essentially as this will give you the full range of motion. You want to keep your core tight, and use your core to rotate you as well as bring the weight down. Do not load a bunch of weight on this exercise. 20-40 lbs is more than enough and you can tell if you have too much weight on the machine if your shoulders kick in to help you move the weight. You want to be able to do 50+ reps per side with this so if you can't too much weight. Its okay to also do these with light dumbbells or no weight at all. Myself I use a 20 lb dumbbell but start with the machine and focus on form. You should keep your arms completely stiff and your core should be doing the work; otherwise you are cheating. This exercise is awesome for those of you that play golf because its gonna put a lot of power behind your drive when you T off. 

*Wood Chop Low to High:* Same as above, but now you set the machine to the lowest position and your driving upwards . Again, keep core tight and let your core do all the work. Picture this as grabbing a golf club and swinging upward to hit someone in the chin. 

*Decline Bench Twist Crunch:* Simple decline bench twisting crunch. Do these till you can't anymore. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIapHNvuUoo

*Leg Cross Twist Crunch:* Just like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArPeDeGsZEA Do these till you can't anymore.

Now, here is the routine. This routine should be done once a week and shouldn't take you longer than 20-30 minutes tops. If it takes you longer than that; you're cheating and resting between sets. Each exercise should be done in this specific order (there's a reason for that, its called guaranteed failure). 

Decline Bench Crunches: 1 x Failure
Hanging Leg Lifts: 1 x Failure
Hanging Leg Kicks: 1 x Failure
Hanging Side Leg Lifts: 1 x Failure (each side)
Hanging V: 1 x Failure
Wood Chop High to Low: 1 x 50 (each side)
Wood Chop Low to High: 1 x 50 (each side)
Decline Bench Twist Crunch: 1 x Failure
Leg Cross Twist Crunch: 1 x Failure 

Again, do these in order; and with no rest in between sets. 

Another thing you can do at work, laying on the couch, sitting on a plane, and pretty much anywhere are called "Vacuums". These are awesome in working you inner ab muscles. You should not do them on ab day- do them on your off days or a few days after your ab routine. I do them on the couch when I'm laying down watching TV. At first, do them in the mirror so you can focus on (and see) sucking your abs in as far as you can. Don't be discouraged if you can't suck in very far (that means you have very weak inner ab muscles) because it will come with time as you build a strong core. Do as many as you want/can. Suck in- hold for 30 seconds, release for 10 seconds, repeat. Hold for as long as you can if you can't do 30 seconds.

For the ladies, you can do Kegel exercises to work your Pelvic Floor at the same time. Suck in the Vacuum and do a Kegel a the same time. For some women it is easier to do both at the same time because your aponeurosis muscle interconnects somewhat into your Pelvic Floor. You get twice the benefit as your inner abs are the core muscle used during thrusting (sex, women on top) and if you train your body to do a thrust and Kegel at the same time... you're significant other is going to love you for it.  :Wink/Grin: 

Here is the Vacuum: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwvj5Izthc4 

Let me know if anyone has any questions an I'll try to answer the best that I can. Do this routine for 2 months, once a week the first month, twice a week the second month... take a before and after pic. I promise it will work....

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## Hydroponics

Awesome info. Gonna do this untill may, ill show another pic in 2 months

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## snowman

Ive heard of the vacuum for a while but never give it a try...going to try the vacuum for a while to see if i see the difference... good info.

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## bigsiv

Dan that was one of the best threads I have read and I'm definitely gonna start doing that, I will take a before and after pic.
Only prob I have is I'm sitting at about 16-18% now after a massive winter bulk  :Frown:  lol is there any point me starting this regime yet or get my BF down first which should take about 4 weeks

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## dan991

> Dan that was one of the best threads I have read and I'm definitely gonna start doing that, I will take a before and after pic.
> Only prob I have is I'm sitting at about 16-18% now after a massive winter bulk  lol is there any point me starting this regime yet or get my BF down first which should take about 4 weeks


Actually- I'd start now. Its easier to burn body fat that it is to build muscle IMHO. Plus- the speed between all these sets also works as a high intensity interval training type regimen so you are going to be burning fat at the same time anyways. It takes time to build a strong core and you can use this high body fat time to learn muscle control and what each exercise should feel like when you do a rep properly. Fat comes off... muscles doesn't magically appear.  :Smilie:

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## bigsiv

> Actually- I'd start now. Its easier to burn body fat that it is to build muscle IMHO. Plus- the speed between all these sets also works as a high intensity interval training type regimen so you are going to be burning fat at the same time anyways. It takes time to build a strong core and you can use this high body fat time to learn muscle control and what each exercise should feel like when you do a rep properly. Fat comes off... muscles doesn't magically appear.


Great cheers for the info dan I will keep posted  :Smilie:

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## Soar

Wicked thread. The stomach vacuum isn't as easy as it looks, kids at school thought I was a mutant when is do that lol. The side wave he did was insane.. No idea how to control the core in that direction

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## dan991

> Wicked thread. The stomach vacuum isn't as easy as it looks, kids at school thought I was a mutant when is do that lol. *The side wave he did was insane.. No idea how to control the core in that direction*


The Hanging V exercise teaches you how to feel out inner from outer ab being hit. Its a transitional exercise because from rest pulling up you are hitting outer ab (rectus) and as you start spreading your legs for the V you are moving into hitting your inner ab (transversus). Over time you just build up to know where you're hitting and being able to tell which one you are contracting. Some people don't feel one over the other at first but when you do something enough you become use to the feeling and know if you're doing it the correct way. Its actually kind of a weird exercise but it works.

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## Soar

> The Hanging V exercise teaches you how to feel out inner from outer ab being hit. Its a transitional exercise because from rest pulling up you are hitting outer ab (rectus) and as you start spreading your legs for the V you are moving into hitting your inner ab (transversus). Over time you just build up to know where you're hitting and being able to tell which one you are contracting. Some people don't feel one over the other at first but when you do something enough you become use to the feeling and know if you're doing it the correct way. Its actually kind of a weird exercise but it works.


Defiantly going to give it a try, never would of considered it in a routine. Ty again

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## kelkel

Very nicely done Dan!

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## dan991

To answer a few PM's... yes, you can do this routine year round. You don't have to stop at two months- I do this routine year round, 2-3 times a week, and vacuums almost daily. As you get stronger, increase the number of reps and throw in your own modifications. For example, on the Hanging Side leg lifts; now I only do 10 instead of 30 per side- but what I do is when I get to the top I hold for 10 seconds as that is giving me a lot more of a work out than just banging out 30 reps.

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## Armykid93

Holy crap dan this is awesome. Definitely subscribed to this one. I'll be doing this on my ab days

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## --->>405<<---

*DAN the AB MAN!*  :Stickpoke:

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## dan991

Based on your avi pic....the last person who should be posting on the forum right now is you. Hit print and get in the gym....  :Poke:

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## --->>405<<---

> Based on your avi pic....the last person who should be posting on the forum right now is you. Hit print and get in the gym....


LOL.. actually i will be printing it tomorrow! when i go back to work.. i didnt do abs today just cardio and vacuums and laid on the couch all day.. i will be doing the full routine tomorrow.

lookn forward to it! BTW for chest i can do the pec deck just the cables i cant do cuz i have to hold the handles with my hands which is what puts the strain on my inner elbow.. i need to work on the pec separation.. any suggestions??

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## dan991

> i need to work on the pec separation.. any suggestions??


Different thread  :Smilie:

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## energizer bunny

Excellent read Dan...........cheers

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## Alinjr

Good Post.

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## zaggahamma

subscribed 

great post

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## --->>405<<---

dan i got the TVA pretty well engaged now my man! seeing things down there when sucking in i havent seen before! less than a week.. thought id show u an update! making good progress! getn the sides to suck in too! this is freaking awesome. tomorrow will be abs!

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## chefjmo

great read!

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## dan991

Good deal... stick to the routine and make sure to do the whole thing even if its only 1 rep of each set!

P.S. Are those Skidz? WTF kind of pants are those? Is this 1990?

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## --->>405<<---

> Good deal... stick to the routine and make sure to do the whole thing even if its only 1 rep of each set!
> 
> P.S. Are those Skidz? WTF kind of pants are those? Is this 1990?


i dont even know what a skidz is??  :Hmmmm: 

my wife made em out of this awesome material! theyre my pj shorts.. i have like 7 pair all different colors ranging from the blue u see to christmas tree green and even pink! (which matched the pink fuzzy slippers i used to have) LOL..

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## --->>405<<---

i tell u when i get my stomach sucked in like that and start wiggling it around it feels funny! after i get done i went and sat on the couch and my stomach was making all kinds of growling noises!

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## dan991

> i dont even know what a skidz is?? 
> 
> my wife made em out of this awesome material! theyre my pj shorts.. i have like 7 pair all different colors ranging from the blue u see to christmas tree green and even pink! (which matched the pink fuzzy slippers i used to have) LOL..


Late 1980's "cool"

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## dan991

> i tell u when i get my stomach sucked in like that and start wiggling it around it feels funny! after i get done i went and sat on the couch and my stomach was making all kinds of growling noises!


I dunno about all that..... lol That sounds like a lack of probiotics.

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## Edwin23q

> and you think its impossible, you do crunches, etc., etc., etc. First of all- EVERYONE has abs. You want a deep 6 pack... work for it! Abs are NOT genetic... they are earned! Yes- some of it is diet and body fat; but not as much as you think. You can be as high as 12-14% body fat and still have a fully visible deep six pack.
> 
> To build abs like you see on the cover of Men's Health; you need to understand how your abdominal wall is built. Most people focus on hitting only the outer abdominal muscles (rectus abdominis & external oblique) when a majority of "the look" actually comes from you internal ab muscles (transversus abdomins & internal oblique).
> 
> It is VERY hard to hit the internal ab muscles; crunches, conventional leg lifts, and side bends barely hit them and you'll never get anywhere near failure by doing those exercises. Chances are- you already have enough outer ab muscle mass to give you the look you want; now you need to define it which will happen when your internal abs are up to par.
> 
> When you start building your internal abs, two things happen and sometimes very quickly. First- your internal abs will start to "suck in" your stomach. You will visibly see that within a couple months your midsection will get smaller. Take a side view picture now- and take one a couple months down the road. You will see that width of your trunk has changed and you've gotten thinner. This is because the internal obliques will bring in your entire abdominal wall.
> 
> Second, you will start to see definition of the outer abdominal muscles. This is because the internal abdominal muscles "tuck under" the outer abdominal muscles and will push your outer abs outwards giving you that deep cut look. This is where you are going to see your "6 pack". Essentially, you have two muscles stacking on top of each other. To have a 6 pack- this MUST happen and it will. The outer ab muscles by themselves can only get so big and you need the inner ab muscles for the definition.
> ...


Mate your a legend, been looking for something like this for a long time
.
Thanks and well done.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

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## --->>405<<---

> I dunno about all that..... lol That sounds like a lack of probiotics.


maybe it squeezed something loose!

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## Soar

Or maybe you just had to fart

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## bigsiv

Just tried this routine for the first time and my god it is hard. I didn't realise how weak my abdominals are but given time that will improve.
Felt pain in places and muscles in my stomach I never knew I had. Thanx again Dan!

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## dan991

A lot of people say that....  :AaGreen22:

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## bigsiv

> A lot of people say that....


Yeah it was really good workout I'm hoping I'm gonna feel it tomorrow  :Smilie:

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## --->>405<<---

well dan i am finally gonna do the ab routine tonite! nonetheless just from doing the vacuums my lower abs (i suppose TVA) are sore!

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## dan991

Tonight? Who the hell works out on a Saturday night? Oh yea- you're old.... forgot.

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## bigsiv

405 might be getting on a bit I'm 29 lol no offence 405  :Wink:

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## FONZY007

What do the vacuums do?

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## dan991

> What do the vacuums do?


Read the first post...  :Poke:

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## --->>405<<---

> Tonight? Who the hell works out on a Saturday night? Oh yea- you're old.... forgot.


LOL.. not only am i gonna work out, i also am gonna be at work! with my job it doesnt matter what day of the week it is, everyday can be any day cuz i dont have to work if i dont feel like it..

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## Armykid93

So instead of senior member shouldn't dans status say "Dan the Ab Man"? Lol

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## bigsiv

> DAN the AB MAN!


Your too slow Armykid lol

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## Armykid93

> Your too slow Armykid lol


That's what I was referring to. Probably should have cited 405 in my post though lol

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## bigsiv

> That's what I was referring to. Probably should have cited 405 in my post though lol


Ha ha sorry bud didnt get that lol

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## Twin

Are you expected to breathe while holding/pushing﻿ your stomach in for stomach vacuum? 

or are you supposed to get all the air out first before sucking in.

or breathe all your air outward as﻿ your suckin your stomach in only hold for a second or two?

i heard many different variations to the stomach vacuum. not sure which is the best way.

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## Soar

> anyone else feel a little cramp in there abs when doing stomach vacuums when pushing the stomach in? i feel it in my right ab .
> 
> this is the same way i do my stomach vacuums.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr1HLVPGUKA


That's smile was extremely creepy, I could feel him burning threw my phone screen Ito my soul. Must go try special 20 minute workout....

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## dan991

> Are you expected to breathe while holding/pushing﻿ your stomach in for stomach vacuum? 
> 
> or are you supposed to get all the air out first before sucking in.
> 
> or breathe all your air outward as﻿ your suckin your stomach in only hold for a second or two?
> 
> i heard many different variations to the stomach vacuum. not sure which is the best way.


I do a vacuum and hold it WHILE breathing. You shouldn't stop breathing because of vacuums. You should be feeling the same thing you would feel on your abs doing normal crunches. It can be difficult at first as well as feel weird (its something you've never done before) but you'll get there. You also can try just doing quick reps of sucking in and releasing. That may let you get more accustomed to the feeling before you attempt to hold the vacuum. 

Don't worry if you can't suck in your stomach very far- comes with time. What you are looking for is the tension on your abdominal wall (reversed tension per se).

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## GirlyGymRat

This should be a sticky!

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## Armykid93

> This should be a sticky!


Agreed

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## Legion714

this routine looks fantastic! im deff going to throw it in my cycle

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## canesfan804

My abs look more like the 1st pic( how they are non symetric) Will working them harder make them more symetrical? I have always wondered this but never asked. I fugured the placement was impossible to change. I have no been working them much at all for the last month and they are weak as hell now. Ill prob try this soon.

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## dan991

> My abs look more like the 1st pic( how they are non symetric) Will working them harder make them more symetrical? I have always wondered this but never asked. I fugured the placement was impossible to change. I have no been working them much at all for the last month and they are weak as hell now. Ill prob try this soon.


yes- because you have only worked your outer abs. until you start working your inner abs; you won't ever get to pic #2. Easy way to explain it; if you only work biceps and never work triceps..... your arms will only get so big.

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## canesfan804

I always thought I was genetically deficient in the ab category. Figured God thought it wouldnt be fair to make me so good looking and have abs. JK. Funny thing is I only do inner ab exercises like leg lifts and Vs and such. Maybe I just need to do more.

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## dan991

> I always thought I was genetically deficient in the ab category. Figured God thought it wouldnt be fair to make me so good looking and have abs. JK. Funny thing is I only do inner ab exercises like leg lifts and Vs and such. Maybe I just need to do more.


Leg lifts actually aren't an inner ab work out. The inner ab work outs are vacuum's, side leg lift, and wood chops. The reason the exercises are in the order they are in this specific routine is to pre-exhaust the outer ab muscles so they can't provide help to the inner ab muscles when they are struggling. If you look at the routine, it kinda looks like this for pre-exhaust:

Decline Bench Crunches: 1 x Failure (WARM UP)
Hanging Leg Lifts: 1 x Failure (OUTER PRE-EXHAUST)
Hanging Leg Kicks: 1 x Failure (OUTER PRE-EXHAUST)
Hanging Side Leg Lifts: 1 x Failure (each side) (INNER AB)
Hanging V: 1 x Failure (INNER AB)
Wood Chop High to Low: 1 x 50 (each side) (INNER AB)
Wood Chop Low to High: 1 x 50 (each side) (INNER AB)
Decline Bench Twist Crunch: 1 x Failure (PRE-EXHAUST OBLIQUE)
Leg Cross Twist Crunch: 1 x Failure (INNER OBLIQUE)

The reason for no rest between sets is to keep tension on the abdominal wall and then once your outer abs fail; internals will kick in more. The interesting part is that over time your body will train itself to not cheat as well as use the inner muscles more for the exercises. You should also be hitting failure on every single set otherwise you're just shorting yourself. By the time you get to hanging leg kicks- your outer abs should be on fire and those should have you cringing.

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## Twin

> I do a vacuum and hold it WHILE breathing. You shouldn't stop breathing because of vacuums. You should be feeling the same thing you would feel on your abs doing normal crunches. It can be difficult at first as well as feel weird (its something you've never done before) but you'll get there. You also can try just doing quick reps of sucking in and releasing. That may let you get more accustomed to the feeling before you attempt to hold the vacuum. 
> 
> Don't worry if you can't suck in your stomach very far- comes with time. What you are looking for is the tension on your abdominal wall (reversed tension per se).


thx bro

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## DeadlyD

Great info, gonna give it a go ! Thanks

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## Times Roman

I'm sorry mate. I'm going to have to respectfully disagree to a certain extent.

My son's friend doesn't work out, nor does he know anything about his diet. If you measure the thickness of the skin/fat that stretches over his abs, almost as thin as the skin that covers his arms. Me? I've got a layer, and have always had it, even back in my running days when I was really focused on diet and ran probably 50 to 70 miles a week. 

I've never had visible abs. My sons friend has em and was born that way, more or less.

Isn't this more or less the "definition" of a genetic predisposition for a physical attribute?

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## dan991

> I'm sorry mate. I'm going to have to respectfully disagree to a certain extent.
> 
> My son's friend doesn't work out, nor does he know anything about his diet. If you measure the thickness of the skin/fat that stretches over his abs, almost as thin as the skin that covers his arms. Me? I've got a layer, and have always had it, even back in my running days when I was really focused on diet and ran probably 50 to 70 miles a week. 
> 
> I've never had visible abs. My sons friend has em and was born that way, more or less.
> 
> Isn't this more or less the "definition" of a genetic predisposition for a physical attribute?


As far as genetic predisposition... nope. If that were the case; I would have a pregnant hard beer belly look; like all the other males in my family and like my father has. Think Tony Soprano look. Skin thickness comes really comes into play if there is no actual routine or diet (son's friend). If he gained some body fat on his midsection- would he still have visible abs? How thick are his ab muscles?

As for your "layer" of ab; try the routine... post before and after pics....  :Wink:  You have nothing to lose....  :Smilie:

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## dan991

This is an awesome read (the whole book), but more I less I summarized and gave the cliff notes in the first post: http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpt...anatomy-of-abs

----------


## M302_Imola

> Leg lifts actually aren't an inner ab work out. The inner ab work outs are vacuum's, side leg lift, and wood chops. The reason the exercises are in the order they are in this specific routine is to pre-exhaust the outer ab muscles so they can't provide help to the inner ab muscles when they are struggling. If you look at the routine, it kinda looks like this for pre-exhaust:
> 
> Decline Bench Crunches: 1 x Failure (WARM UP)
> Hanging Leg Lifts: 1 x Failure (OUTER PRE-EXHAUST)
> Hanging Leg Kicks: 1 x Failure (OUTER PRE-EXHAUST)
> Hanging Side Leg Lifts: 1 x Failure (each side) (INNER AB)
> Hanging V: 1 x Failure (INNER AB)
> Wood Chop High to Low: 1 x 50 (each side) (INNER AB)
> Wood Chop Low to High: 1 x 50 (each side) (INNER AB)
> ...


I might just give this a try here in a month or so (I don't do ab exercises in the winter)! lol

----------


## dan991

> I might just give this a try here in a month or so (I don't do ab exercises in the winter)! lol


You should be doing them year round, lol. Building muscle takes time and in order to have something to show off come summer; you need to build them now so they are there for the beach. LOL

----------


## M302_Imola

> You should be doing them year round, lol. Building muscle takes time and in order to have something to show off come summer; you need to build them now so they are there for the beach. LOL


Lol, I agree with you but when time is of the essence and my main goal during the winter is to lean bulk abs get overshadowed. I do however do mostly compound lifts where my core is def being worked. Not sure if I'm a genetic freak or what but whenever I start to diet down for the spring/summer as well as do abs twice per week it normally only takes around 6 weeks for those puppies to start to shred up and poke out. None-the-less I'm sure if I was able to do them year round they would look even better!

----------


## basketballfan22

Hi dan68131,

I LOVE this thread. I have a few questions for you. I am trying to leanly bulk up to 200 pounds (I am currently at around 182); although I have a six-pack, I want a really deep six-pack. Would doing this routine hurt my bulking phase considering I have a very fast metabolism? I would also like to ask you about my current routine, and see if you thought this would be too much to add in addition to the day I do arms. I hope you don't mind my including some links to threads that I started. The most important one is my first one as that is a link to my new workout routine. The second link has a few pictures of where I am at with my body composition, but I don't know if that is important. I will copy and paste a "CliffsNotes" version at the bottom, so you don't have to bother reading the whole thread. If this is "stealing" your thread, then I will gladly edit it all out. Thanks.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...k#.UP7w3aWi1N0
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...e#.UP7xwaWi1N0
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...e#.UP7x0qWi1N0

Monday (chest): 3 new exercises every week
Tuesday (back): 3 new exercises every week
Wednesday (shoulders): 3 new exercises every week
Thursday (legs): 6 new exercises every week
Friday (arms/abs): 4 new arm exercises every week

Warmup set: 20 - 25 reps (~45% of my one rep max, I never "max out"; so I don't actually know this number, but I have a pretty good idea).
First set: 4 - 6 reps (the most weight I can lift to achieve this until failure).
Subsequent sets: drop weight by 10 - 15% lifting to failure each time until I reach a weight where I can do more than 10 reps (despite my fatigue, the weight gets too easy).
Last sets: start to increase the weight by 10 - 15% lifting to failure each time until I go back up to a weight where I can't do a single rep.

----------


## dan991

If your bulking; abs should still be part of your routine. There shouldn't be a separation of when you do abs as its no different than any other muscle. 

Actually- I think you're spending way too much time in the gym even without the ab routine on the rest of it. If you look at just your arm day; you're doing 42 sets. That means you aren't hitting failure because if you were you'd be crying long before you got to 10 sets. "Failure" is defined as the point where your muscle cannot complete another rep no matter what you do outside of cheating. If you want to bulk (even lean bulk) you need to increase your weight to the point that on the 6-8th rep you cannot do it even on the first set after warm up. I'm looking at your full routine and I'm trying to figure out when your muscles have time to recover and grow.  :Hmmmm:  That's a whole different thread than abs though. I'll read your threads and respond in those threads accordingly.

----------


## krugerr

> "Failure" is defined as the point where your muscle cannot complete another rep no matter what you do outside of cheating.


Momentary Muscle Failure. 

Assisted, negative, once you can't even do this, once your muscle is at the point where it physically cannot move or even hold the weight. You have achieved failure. Don't just stop when it burns. Easier said than done though.

----------


## dan991

Okay- so now revisiting basketball's last post; you can always work abs and you should always work abs. What makes abs different is that most of the time they are neglected when it comes to the internal ab muscles. So, even bulking you will actually be adding muscles mass just from the inside out if that makes sense. It still adds to your weight and those muscles still need the nutrition to grow like every other muscle. I work abs year round, bulk or cut, same routine regardless. If your not hitting your internal abs which a lot of people don't, its kind of like working biceps but not triceps. One muscle can only grow so much and that limits how big your arms are. Same thing applies here. A majority of the routine posted is for internal abs because most don't work them directly and any work out those muscles is a secondary so they are weak.

----------


## basketballfan22

I am definitely going until I can't do another rep without cheating/having poor form. I should have added a disclaimer that in my workout routine thread, the new routine is added later on. I am no longer doing that many sets. I only put "3 new exercise every week" instead of listing the exercises. The reason my old workout routine was so long was I really wanted to develop every area of the muscle; but as what other members said in my thread, I wasn't working each area enough. Therefore it is better to just alternate new exercises each week and only focus on those specific areas. Here is an example of the first week on this new routine. Each exercise follows the regimen I included in my first post.

Monday (chest):
bench press
dumbbell flies
cable inclined

Tuesday (back):
deadlift
barbell bent over rows
lat pulldown

Wednesday (shoulders):
dumbbell overhead press
rear-delt machine
cable front raises

Thursday (legs):
squats
leg curl
lunges
leg extension
standing calf raises
seated calf raises

Friday (arms/abs):
barbell curls
preacher curls
skull crushers
tricep cable extension
declined situps
hanging leg raises
situps

----------


## basketballfan22

Warmup set: 20 - 25 reps (≈45% of my one rep max, I never "max out"; so I don't actually know this number, but I have a pretty good idea).
First set: 4 - 6 reps (the most weight I can lift to achieve this until failure).
Subsequent sets: drop weight by 10 - 15% lifting to failure each time until I reach a weight where I can do more than 10 reps (despite my fatigue, the weight gets too easy).
Last sets: start to increase the weight by 10 - 15% lifting to failure each time until I go back up to a weight where I can't do a single rep.

As a reminder, here is how each set and rep works. I also give myself enough time to recover (≈45 - 75 seconds) in between sets.

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## dan991

Yea- I saw that after the fact. I didn't read the whole thread at first.

----------


## dan991

So.. I would just do your whole normal routine and then throw in this ab routine. Do the ab routine with no rest between sets and that saves you from doing any cardio at all. Just add the ab routine and be done for a bit so your body gets a chance to rest.

----------


## basketballfan22

Okay. Neglect the previous two posts then. I wrote them while you wrote the last post I guess. I was just worried that I would be working too much (like I was doing in my last routine) because of how hard you work your abs in your routine.

Thanks, and I apologize for any confusion.

----------


## basketballfan22

Yeah that is what I was hoping. I wasn't sure about cardio because I have such a fast metabolism; but by decreasing the length of my workout now, I was worried I would lose definition. I think this ab routine will "kill two bird with one stone" though. Thanks again.

----------


## Edwin23q

> So.. I would just do your whole normal routine and then throw in this ab routine. Do the ab routine with no rest between sets and that saves you from doing any cardio at all. Just add the ab routine and be done for a bit so your body gets a chance to rest.


Not sure if its normal or what, but attempting the ab routine as you've described puts my abdomen in so much pain that I can't do any cardio. Not that I care about cardio, but is this expected and normal? I've only been doing your ab workout for 1 week.

Thanks Dan.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

----------


## dan991

> Not sure if its normal or what, but attempting the ab routine as you've described puts my abdomen in so much pain that I can't do any cardio. Not that I care about cardio, but is this expected and normal? I've only been doing your ab workout for 1 week.
> 
> Thanks Dan.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


Define pain? Pain as in "injury" or pain as in muscle fatigue? Muscle fatigue yes, injury no.. not normal.

----------


## dan991

..........................

----------


## Brick

> I've gotten a few PM's about pics so I'll post a couple up. Had to edit them so I can leave them up permanently (I have some pretty distinguishing tats) but here is one from beginning of December and one from end of October (red shorts). I'll add a lot more pics at the start of our competition we're doing in the lounge.
> 
> <img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132351"/> <img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132352"/>


Did you take these using your Atari camera?

----------


## dan991

> Did you take these using your Atari camera?


No... I had to crop them from larger pics (full body pics taken from a distance) and focus in on my abs as well as make sure none of my tats are visible if I'm gonna leave them up for a long time. I've posted full body pics before but I take them down after a while because my tats are rather distinguishable.

----------


## Edwin23q

> Define pain? Pain as in "injury" or pain as in muscle fatigue? Muscle fatigue yes, injury no.. not normal.


As in a sharp pain in my lower left and right hand side. It starts at 2 mins from the start of cardio and by 5 minutes I have to stop my cardio.
It's a soft but sharp pain that's gets worst the longer I'm doing cardio. 
But as soon as I stop cardio, the pain goes away.
Strange right?

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

----------


## dan991

> As in a sharp pain in my lower left and right hand side. It starts at 2 mins from the start of cardio and by 5 minutes I have to stop my cardio.
> It's a soft but sharp pain that's gets worst the longer I'm doing cardio. 
> But as soon as I stop cardio, the pain goes away.
> Strange right?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


That's the first time I've heard that one and I don't think it has anything to do with the ab routine. It could be muscle exhaustion/lactic acid build up I guess if you're doing the cardio right after the ab routine. I guess it could be your obliques because depending on what type of cardio you are doing your internal obliques are responsible for twisting your upper body. I dunno... never experience it and I don't ever do cardio.

----------


## Edwin23q

> That's the first time I've heard that one and I don't think it has anything to do with the ab routine. It could be muscle exhaustion/lactic acid build up I guess if you're doing the cardio right after the ab routine. I guess it could be your obliques because depending on what type of cardio you are doing your internal obliques are responsible for twisting your upper body. I dunno... never experience it and I don't ever do cardio.


Maybe because I do my abs everyday I'm not allowing time for repair, not sure but I might just drop my cardio.
I'm on my 2nd week of test and deca cycle, so I was told to do around 20 mins cardio with my workouts daily.

Thanks mate for the help.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

----------


## dan991

> Maybe because I do my abs everyday I'm not allowing time for repair, not sure but I might just drop my cardio.
> I'm on my 2nd week of test and deca cycle, so I was told to do around 20 mins cardio with my workouts daily.
> 
> Thanks mate for the help.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


Yea- don't work abs every day. One day a week and two times a week tops after doing them for a while with a few days rest in-between. Abs are just like every other muscle and they need recovery to grow.

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## dan991

> Did you take these using your Atari camera?


Oh.. its your ass.... here... I'll show you what you're up against in the competition. Here's an off season pic for you to give you an idea of what you're up against. I'll take it down after a bit.... but I've gained about 15 lbs since that pic and it ain't fat.

----------


## Soar

Nice short shorts hahha

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## dan991

> Nice short shorts hahha


Hey... you try finding shorts that fit quads as thick as mine. I'm a 27-28" waist and my quads barely fit in anything I can buy off the rack. Plus... my girlfriend likes them and she puts out so whatever makes her happy.

----------


## Brick

> Oh.. its your ass.... here... I'll show you what you're up against in the competition. Here's an off season pic for you to give you an idea of what you're up against. I'll take it down after a bit.... but I've gained about 15 lbs since that pic and it ain't fat.


I understand why you cropped now. You could take the picture and put a box around your abs. Then black out the rest

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## sokrispy69

Nice write up

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## basketballfan22

Hey dan, I have a few questions about this routine. I just started it today, and I am having trouble with both wood chops. Maybe it is my lack of golfing experience that makes this motion so awkward, but I don't feel my like my core is working much. I start to feel a burn in my rear shoulder and even lower back before I feel much burn in my core. I feel a little bit of burning on my side where my ribs are, but not much. I have decreased the weight significantly to prevent my shoulder from doing any work while playing close attention to my core, so I don't know what else to do.

The other two exercises that are somewhat awkward are the "hanging side leg lifts" and the "hanging v," but I think I can get more comfortable with those with experience. I have a pretty strong core, so I can do the remaining exercises pretty well. I am sure it is sacrilege to ask; but can I just do more sets of the other exercises in replace for some of these, especially the wood chop? I feel the burn a lot more in the other exercises than I do in these.

----------


## Blaz Kavlic

Great post. 

Where can I get a pair of those arm thingies? I had a go at these exercises today and simply dangling my body weight while holding the pull up bar saw all my form go out the window. I cant seem to hold on for long enough to complete the routine properly so using the arm holders would be the way forward for me. Cheers.

----------


## Blaz Kavlic

> Great post. 
> 
> Where can I get a pair of those arm thingies? I had a go at these exercises today and simply dangling my body weight while holding the pull up bar saw all my form go out the window. I cant seem to hold on for long enough to complete the routine properly so using the arm holders would be the way forward for me. Cheers.


Just found a set on eBay under the name "hanging ab strap". Cheers!

----------


## dan991

> Hey dan, I have a few questions about this routine. I just started it today, and I am having trouble with both wood chops. Maybe it is my lack of golfing experience that makes this motion so awkward, but I don't feel my like my core is working much. I start to feel a burn in my rear shoulder and even lower back before I feel much burn in my core. I feel a little bit of burning on my side where my ribs are, but not much. I have decreased the weight significantly to prevent my shoulder from doing any work while playing close attention to my core, so I don't know what else to do.
> 
> The other two exercises that are somewhat awkward are the "hanging side leg lifts" and the "hanging v," but I think I can get more comfortable with those with experience. I have a pretty strong core, so I can do the remaining exercises pretty well. I am sure it is sacrilege to ask; but can I just do more sets of the other exercises in replace for some of these, especially the wood chop? I feel the burn a lot more in the other exercises than I do in these.


Have you done a lot of weighted side bends in the past to work out obliques? If so, that may be why because those are working your outer oblique and you've never really hit your inner oblique. The wood chops force you to use your inner obliques because they are primarily used to rotate your trunk in a push/pull type method (one is pulling the other side is stretching). It almost sounds like your have strong outer obliques but the internal are lagging so as you start out with the weight the outer muscles start the movement but when the inner muscles take over it gets harder and you start using shoulder and back to cheat? The hanging side leg lifts are an internal oblique isolation exercise and the hanging V is a transitional (outer to inner) so that could be why they feel awkward; never hit them before. This routine is awkward for most at first. You'll start to see results quickly though especially with flexibility of your core.

----------


## dan991

> Great post. 
> 
> Where can I get a pair of those arm thingies? I had a go at these exercises today and simply dangling my body weight while holding the pull up bar saw all my form go out the window. I cant seem to hold on for long enough to complete the routine properly so using the arm holders would be the way forward for me. Cheers.


In Slovenia I have no clue. Most sporting goods stores on-line have them if they sell weights, work out machines, etc.

----------


## Brick

Just got off eBay for 43.89 international shipping for free!

(woman and gloves not included)

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## M302_Imola

Seems as though the Hanging V exercise link on the 1st page isn't working properly. It would be awesome if someone could embed a video showing this exercise into this thread.

----------


## basketballfan22

The link under the "Hanging V" exercise is a link to a video where a guy "rolls" his stomach. It is not a video on the exercise itself. It also requires you to sign in to an account to view it because for some reason it has been flagged as inappropriate for some users. I have no idea why as there is nothing "inappropriate" about it. I have been unable to find a video of the actual exercise, but some of the videos that include "hanging v raises" are not showing the exercise dan is talking about. In those videos, "hanging v raises" are just leg raises where the rep doesn't end until your legs are almost 180° (your shins will almost touch the bar). I think dan gave a pretty good description of this exercise, unless I am performing them incorrectly. As dan said, all they are are leg raises where you open your legs apart as you raise them; then as you lower your legs to the initial position, you close your legs. Keep your legs stiff and have very little, if any at all, bend in your knees just like the hanging leg raises. I have a pretty strong core; but if you are not used to this motion, it will be very difficult. To put it in perspective, I am able to do over 70 reps (yes, I am consciously contracting my core and having slow and controlled reps) in the warmup routine and around 25 for the hanging leg raises; but I was only able to do 6 or 7 of these. Hopefully, I will increase this amount soon. I believe I will start performing this routine twice a week instead of just once because I was not sore at all the following day.

----------


## dan991

> The link under the "Hanging V" exercise is a link to a video where a guy "rolls" his stomach. It is not a video on the exercise itself. It also requires you to sign in to an account to view it because for some reason it has been flagged as inappropriate for some users. I have no idea why as there is nothing "inappropriate" about it. I have been unable to find a video of the actual exercise, but some of the videos that include "hanging v raises" are not showing the exercise dan is talking about. In those videos, "hanging v raises" are just leg raises where the rep doesn't end until your legs are almost 180° (your shins will almost touch the bar). I think dan gave a pretty good description of this exercise, unless I am performing them incorrectly. As dan said, all they are are leg raises where you open your legs apart as you raise them; then as you lower your legs to the initial position, you close your legs. Keep your legs stiff and have very little, if any at all, bend in your knees just like the hanging leg raises. I have a pretty strong core; but if you are not used to this motion, it will be very difficult. To put it in perspective, I am able to do over 70 reps (yes, I am consciously contracting my core and having slow and controlled reps) in the warmup routine and around 25 for the hanging leg raises; but I was only able to do 6 or 7 of these. Hopefully, I will increase this amount soon. I believe I will start performing this routine twice a week instead of just once because I was not sore at all the following day.


Correct

----------


## cj111

Well it's official, this routine made me feel like a *****... And it was great! Always humbling to try something and fail because it makes you want it that much more .
Thanks for posting this

----------


## Zodiac82

I did it yesterday too....I went through the cycle twice though....just for peace of mind

----------


## cj111

Twice? My god man, either your not doing it right or you got a mid section like Bruce lee.

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## dan991

> I did it yesterday too....I went through the cycle twice though....just for peace of mind


 :2nono: 

Then you weren't going to failure on the first set....  :Stickpoke:

----------


## Zodiac82

> Then you weren't going to failure on the first set....


lol I didnt go twice in a row....I did the first set and rested for about two to three mins then did it again

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok heres 3 weeks (or less) on dans workout: (happy dan??)  :Poke:

----------


## dan991

> ok heres 3 weeks (or less) on dans workout: (happy dan??)


Yea... and keep the routine going and *maybe* in a year you wont have the body of an 80 year old woman.  :Poke:

----------


## Back In Black

> ok heres 3 weeks (or less) on dans workout: (happy dan??)


Looking great. This is 100% Dans ab workout? No change in diet or supplements in that time?  :Wink:

----------


## Zodiac82

> ok heres 3 weeks (or less) on dans workout: (happy dan??)


nice man....what does ur rep range look like

----------


## dan991

> Looking great. This is 100% Dans ab workout? No change in diet or supplements in that time?


Diet has A LOT to do with building muscles. Abs are NO DIFFERENT than biceps, triceps, or even quads. You have to eat and you have to train if you wanna build muscle duh....

 :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

> Diet has A LOT to do with building muscles. Abs are NO DIFFERENT than biceps, triceps, or even quads. You have to eat and you have to train if you wanna build muscle duh....


Why do you have to jump in like a douche ever time someone makes an innocent jokey comment? Did you not see the wink? Always wanting an argument or a disagreement aren't you.

And don't 'duh' me, knob!

----------


## dan991

> Why do you have to jump in like a douche ever time someone makes an innocent jokey comment? Did you not see the wink? Always wanting an argument or a disagreement aren't you.
> 
> And don't 'duh' me, knob!


You baited your questions so I took your bait and responded to your bait...  :Poke:

----------


## Back In Black

> You baited your questions so I took your bait and responded to your bait...


It was a joke question to 405 in response to his post, not a bait question to you, duh

----------


## dan991

> It was a joke question to 405 in response to his post, not a bait question to you, duh


And you think 405 is gonna answer your question... he's busy doing stomach vacuums in the mirror and staring at his newly found muscles... DUH.... 


 :Wink/Grin:

----------


## Back In Black

> And you think 405 is gonna answer your question... he's busy doing stomach vacuums in the mirror and staring at his newly found muscles... DUH....


Regardless if your attempted humour here you response to my post didn't need your usual deprecating, argumentative and arguably offensive nature.

----------


## dan991

> Regardless if your attempted humour here you response to my post didn't need your usual deprecating, argumentative and arguably offensive nature.


My apologies....  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

LMAO at yalls banter! 

i will say this much: last night it was almost a magical thing that took place in front of the mirror. i was doing vacuums like usual but was still fasted so i was very depleted and flexing my abs in the mirror and doing some breathing and vacuums all in random repetition when all of a sudden i felt a sense of control over muscles in my abs i didnt even know i had. then all of a sudden things started moving around and bumps started popping out of my stomach and it was almost like i had an alien in there! 

next thing u know i look up and squeeze and damn if i dont have a fvcking 4 pack (almost 6pack) staring at my in the fcuking mirror! woo hoo! LOL.. 

it was crazy dude.. seriously.

----------


## cj111

I meant to ask this the other day. 

The grips are shit in the gym I go to to hang and do these ab exercises. They have the lil stand which you prop yourself up on your forearms and your back is against the pad. This obviously still works to some degree I would imagine? Or is it better to minimize swinging

----------


## Papa Smurf

Yo Dan

Started your ab workout tomight.................... damn! :Crying:  Thats a painful bitch bro.... Those hanging leg swims humbled my big ass for sure................ Love the challenge of something new

Will post a pic of the start and the monthly progress

Thanks again

----------


## dan991

> I meant to ask this the other day. 
> 
> The grips are shit in the gym I go to to hang and do these ab exercises. *They have the lil stand which you prop yourself up on your forearms and your back is against the pad. This obviously still works to some degree I would imagine? Or is it better to minimize swinging*


No, actually it doesn't work the same at all. 

The stands that hold you up and support your back help you cheat significantly to the point that you are maybe doing 30% of the work you have to do hanging with your abs themselves. The other 70% is using secondary muscles to assist your abs in completing the motion which is why its "so hard" to get a 6 pack doing the conventional exercises. 

Using your core to minimize the swinging is more of a work out than actually lifting your legs because there's no way to cheat. You either use your core to stop the swinging from happening or you don't and you're swinging back and forth with no other option. The more you swing- the more you are cheating.

----------


## 007.

Subscribed best ab thread I have ever read, thank you

----------


## GirlyGymRat

found it! whew!!!

----------


## Armykid93

every time this thread gets posted on it notifies me.

Damn you and you're excellent ab thread dan! Damn you! Lol

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> every time this thread gets posted on it notifies me.
> 
> Damn you and you're excellent ab thread dan! Damn you! Lol


Did u see the progress of 405 after one month. It's in the lounge. Tribute to dans AB work out.

----------


## Armykid93

> Did u see the progress of 405 after one month. It's in the lounge. Tribute to dans AB work out.


Yeah I did. There was a noticeable change

----------


## Hydroponics

3-4 weeks progress

----------


## Brick

> <img src="http://forums.steroid .com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132959"/>
> 
> 3-4 weeks progress


Got a pic from 3-4 weeks ago?

----------


## Hydroponics

Mind im bloated slightly and not flexing like i should be but this was 3-4 weeks ago

----------


## Back In Black

> <img src="http://forums.steroid .com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132959"/>
> 
> 3-4 weeks progress


Good work mate. Why is the other pic upside down? You appear to have a little gyne?

----------


## Hydroponics

Yeah idk why its upside down and i just have those slightly puffy nipples my whole life could i take anything for that or is it just puberty?

----------


## wh1spa

I did read most of the thread, is there any alternate exercises to doing the wood chops? I only have access to a flat bench, pullup bar, rings & GHD.

----------


## dan991

> I did read most of the thread, is there any alternate exercises to doing the wood chops? I only have access to a flat bench, pullup bar, rings & GHD.


You can do it with a dumbbell (that's what I do). 5-25 lb dumbbell works. I use a 20.

----------


## manmanman

The ab slings hurr my arm, whyyyyy

----------


## Soar

They should be fairly comfortable.. Possibly not wide enough or you are using them wrong?

----------


## --->>405<<---

dan the ab man i did my first hanging ab workout tonite with:

----------


## manmanman

I follow the youtube tutorials but my arms feel sore before i cam get a good ab burn

----------


## dan991

> dan the ab man i did my first hanging ab workout tonite with:


Same set up I have minus the gay sign. Did your wife buy you that sign so you would feel like you still have testicles?

----------


## dan991

> I follow the youtube tutorials but my arms feel sore before i cam get a good ab burn


It shouldn't be difficult at all to hold yourself up in the arm slings. I can hang in them for hours without any fatigue (literally). Are you keeping your arms close to your body? They shouldn't be spread too far out. Try bringing your arms in.

----------


## manmanman

I will try again tonight, i just feel a lot of strain, where do you place them

----------


## Brick

Been doing this maybe 3-4 weeks now? 

My abs are still hidden under some fat but it's the first time I've ever been able to 'feel' then. The top two are there and popping. Can't wait to shed some more bf and show off. 

Thanks dan

----------


## gearbox

> It shouldn't be difficult at all to hold yourself up in the arm slings. I can hang in them for hours without any fatigue (literally). Are you keeping your arms close to your body? They shouldn't be spread too far out. Try bringing your arms in.


Definitely agree with this. Although, my wife says it hurts her shoulders after like 1 min.

----------


## largerthannormal

ive been doing this for one week already.. OUCH lol but i feel solid!! cant wait.. love this write up

----------


## evan_2k

Adding this to my new routine, good right up...

----------


## Live for the PUMP

Thanks for sharing your knowledge Dan. I am going to implement this. Seems like one hell of a butt kicker!

----------


## znak

Abs = diet.

Pure and simple. 

You can work out until the cows come home, but if they are covered with fat, they will be strong but you won't see them.

----------


## dan991

> Abs = diet.
> 
> Pure and simple. 
> 
> You can work out until the cows come home, but if they are covered with fat, they will be strong but you won't see them.


All muscle is about diet; but you don't need to be at 6% body fat to see abs. The common misconception is that you must be below a % body fat percentage to see abs which is absolutely not true.

----------


## Brick

> All muscle is about diet; but you don't need to be at 6% body fat to see abs. The common misconception is that you must be below a % body fat percentage to see abs which is absolutely not true.


Back to this I see! 

Would you say though that each person will vary when considering bf that is only measured by DXA scan and also by where people carry extra weight ie stomach vs ass tits etc?

----------


## dan991

> Back to this I see! 
> 
> Would you say though that each person will vary when considering bf that is only measured by DXA scan and also by where people carry extra weight ie stomach vs ass tits etc?


Yes, it varies however there is a misconception that you MUST be below 12% body fat to see abs. That is incorrect as it depends how big your abdominal muscles actually are. I myself have gotten up there in the 16-18% range and you can still see my abs (all of them). What happens is you lose definition but they are still completely visible. There is a lot of "reports" that say that you can't see abs until you get under 12% which is bullshit. The only time that is the case is if you carry a majority of your body fat in your abdominal area. When I was at 18ish % I had a six pack and a muffin top, lol.

----------


## ImSore

> Back to this I see!
> 
> Would you say though that each person will vary when considering bf that is only measured by DXA scan and also by where people carry extra weight ie stomach vs ass tits etc?


visibility of muscle is all just one big algebra equation between muscle maturity, fat percentage, and physical maturity i.e. age. so work out hard, eat right, and keep your testosterone level healthy and you can have big abs.

on another note. bad ass routine. definitely utilizing it for the time being.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Same set up I have minus the gay sign. Did your wife buy you that sign so you would feel like you still have testicles?


i thought i responded to this but will again. no she made it (so i would feel like i have testicles)..  :Smilie:

----------


## dan991

> i thought i responded to this but will again. no she made it (so i would feel like i have testicles)..


Did the sign work?

----------


## Twin

The stomach vacumes are legit. My V belt is showing up nicely and my weight has not decreased at all, might even be up a lb.... Its all i been doing 3x a week because i am recovering from a herniated disc atm...... I do them for 15 mins -20 mins. Some may call it overtraining but its all im doing an im seeing results so i wont stop...

----------


## kawika

> The stomach vacumes are legit. My V belt is showing up nicely and my weight has not decreased at all, might even be up a lb.... Its all i been doing 3x a week because i am recovering from a herniated disc atm...... I do them for 15 mins -20 mins. Some may call it overtraining but its all im doing an im seeing results so i wont stop...


Ima try doing them while I'm at work. Ive been forgetting to incorporate then in my routine lately

----------


## FitEng

This is a great thread with a wealth of information. Thanks

----------


## cj111

Been doing lots of vacuums lately, they are nuts. Also been doing this ab routine with a slight variation for 4 weeks and already having results.

Question, after doing the vacuum it's almost like my mid section wants to stay pulled in. Is this normal?

----------


## dan991

> Been doing lots of vacuums lately, they are nuts. Also been doing this ab routine with a slight variation for 4 weeks and already having results.
> 
> *Question, after doing the vacuum it's almost like my mid section wants to stay pulled in. Is this normal?*


Yes. Over time its gonna be pulled in (not in a bad way). Internal obliques will suck in and "compact" your abdominal wall if that makes sense. You're gonna really notice it around the "love handle" area even if you have no body fat.

----------


## noon

Bought the slings a few weeks ago and love this plan
That is all,..

----------


## noon

Bought the slings a few weeks ago and love this plan
That is all,..

----------


## dan991

Any of you that have been doing the routine for a while now wanna post up some before/after pics (in the same post so nobody has to search)?

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Any of you that have been doing the routine for a while now wanna post up some before/after pics (in the same post so nobody has to search)?


That's a great idea!!!

----------


## kitstreasure

I would love to see some as well! C'mon guys, post 'em up! Let's see all that hard work!

----------


## cj111

I like this routine, except it bothers my groin sometimes. Like it feels like my groin needs to pop after, like its not in the right spot. Doesn't really hurt, just feels funny!
Regardless, still a hard routine.
I could do about 4 leg raises at the start, up to 12-13 now.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> <img src="http://forums.steroid .com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134396"/>
> I like this routine, except it bothers my groin sometimes. Like it feels like my groin needs to pop after, like its not in the right spot. Doesn't really hurt, just feels funny!
> Regardless, still a hard routine.
> I could do about 4 leg raises at the start, up to 12-13 now.


Did u have as much definition b4 u started this program?? Looking great BTW!

----------


## cj111

Probably not because I had more fat, lol , but I can feel my whole mid section is just tight..like all the time. Its a great feeling. Like my abs are perma flexed or something. Must have something to do with doing vacuums all the time also.
Will definitely keep doing this routine/vacuums for as long as Im lifting

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Probably not because I had more fat, lol , but I can feel my whole mid section is just tight..like all the time. Its a great feeling. Like my abs are perma flexed or something. Must have something to do with doing vacuums all the time also.
> Will definitely keep doing this routine/vacuums for as long as Im lifting


Thx for your response. I like the look for myself. At least some of it.

----------


## kitstreasure

> Thx for your response. I like the look for myself. At least some of it.


I'm with you, Girly. I'm just trying to figure out how to not get quite so wash board-y... I just don't think full on wash board is attractive on most women.

----------


## kawika

> <img src="http://forums.steroid .com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134396"/>
> I like this routine, except it bothers my groin sometimes. Like it feels like my groin needs to pop after, like its not in the right spot. Doesn't really hurt, just feels funny!
> Regardless, still a hard routine.
> I could do about 4 leg raises at the start, up to 12-13 now.


Do you have the before pic? Excellent work bro. Keep it up!

----------


## cj111

Was a lot fatter in that pic, so obviously couldn't see any abs...
Going to try and stay lean from here on out, and throw up another progress pic in a few months

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> <img src="http://forums.steroid .com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134399"/>
> Was a lot fatter in that pic, so obviously couldn't see any abs...
> Going to try and stay lean from here on out, and throw up another progress pic in a few months


Your transformation is going great! Cheers!!!!

----------


## Brick

> <img src="http://forums.steroid .com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134396"/>
> I like this routine, except it bothers my groin sometimes. Like it feels like my groin needs to pop after, like its not in the right spot. Doesn't really hurt, just feels funny!
> Regardless, still a hard routine.
> I could do about 4 leg raises at the start, up to 12-13 now.


No homo but what brand are the boxers bro? Those are sick

----------


## gearbox

Awesome transformation!

----------


## cj111

My gf just got them for me, called MyPackage...and **** ya they are sick!
The guys that made Saxx also make these, I wont wear anything else

----------


## Brick

> My gf just got them for me, called MyPackage...and **** ya they are sick!
> The guys that made Saxx also make these, I wont wear anything else


Found two retailers in town. Here I come!

----------


## cj111

Your dinky sits in a little pouch, it's great.

Let me know how you like em.. I going to pick up a few more pairs today

----------


## dan991

> Attachment 134396
> *I like this routine, except it bothers my groin sometimes.* Like it feels like my groin needs to pop after, like its not in the right spot. Doesn't really hurt, just feels funny!
> Regardless, still a hard routine.
> I could do about 4 leg raises at the start, up to 12-13 now.


Try stretching. I've found that stretching helps a lot with these types of things. I work on flexibility now just as much as I do lifting.

----------


## dan991

> Probably not because I had more fat, lol , but I can feel my whole mid section is just tight..like all the time. Its a great feeling. Like my abs are perma flexed or something. Must have something to do with doing vacuums all the time also.
> Will definitely keep doing this routine/vacuums for as long as Im lifting


Looking good dude. Bet you never thought you'd have abs like that when you started....  :Wink:  Give it some time and you'll start seeing some more shit happen as your abs get thicker. The day will come where you'll put on a T-shirt and you'll be able to see your abs right through it. Chicks love that one.  :Smilie:  I've actually had women walk up to me and ask to feel my stomach and pull my shirt up so they can see.  :7up:  Happened at a street festival during the summer.... a group of women damn near attacked me. Granted none of them were really smoking hot but still... they noticed and I was just standing there drinking a beer.

----------


## cj111

Doesn't matter if they are 300lbs, attention is attention haha

----------


## dan991

Yea- and it gets even more fun when you go to the beach and you take your shirt off.... people just stare, lol

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Yea- and it gets even more fun when you go to the beach and you take your shirt off.... people just stare, lol


Realistically. What would u expect results to look like for a gal?

----------


## dan991

> Realistically. What would u expect results to look like for a gal?





IF you are doing the routine non stop once a week for 3-4 months. There is one gotcha though... IF you've been pregnant (like far along pregnant) it can take almost triple the amount of time as your abdominal wall stretches obviously when pregnant.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> IF you are doing the routine non stop once a week for 3-4 months. There is one gotcha though... IF you've been pregnant (like far along pregnant) it can take almost triple the amount of time as your abdominal wall stretches obviously when pregnant.


Wow. I just can't imagine those on me. Ever.

----------


## dan991

> Wow. I just can't imagine those on me. Ever.


Why? You have ab muscles... just have to build them. You built those sexy legs of yours... abs are no different.  :Wink:

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Why? You have ab muscles... just have to build them. You built those sexy legs of yours... abs are no different.


My abs have layer of fat and someone doesn't like me doing cardio  :Wink:

----------


## dan991

> My abs have layer of fat and someone doesn't like me doing cardio


No... burn the fat off with diet and the HIIT routine I already gave you  :Whipping: 

Even if you have a layer of fat over your abs, and lets say its a really thick one; there is absolutely no justifiable reason to not work your abs even with the fat on there. Fat or no fat; you have to build your ab muscles so when the day comes that the fat is gone- you see a whole lotta ab muscles.  :Smilie:

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> No... burn the fat off with diet and the HIIT routine I already gave you 
> 
> Even if you have a layer of fat over your abs, and lets say its a really thick one; there is absolutely no justifiable reason to not work your abs even with the fat on there. Fat or no fat; you have to build your ab muscles so when the day comes that the fat is gone- you see a whole lotta ab muscles.


I have been whipped more today then I have since I joined. What hilt routine???

----------


## dan991

The girls thread routine... that's an HIIT routine.

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## GirlyGymRat

Of the AB exercises. Which r the internal obliques u suggested I focus on?? Thx Dan!

----------


## dan991

Hanging side leg lifts

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Hanging side leg lifts


Figures. The hard ones. Lol.

----------


## dan991

They aren't hard. I just started holding at the top for 60 seconds on each side for 10 reps. THAT is hard... lol

----------


## Soar

> They aren't hard. I just started holding at the top for 60 seconds on each side for 10 reps. THAT is hard... lol


That's intense, I think I'd probably puke. Lol

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> They aren't hard. I just started holding at the top for 60 seconds on each side for 10 reps. THAT is hard... lol


Whatever u can do I can so better. I can do anything better then you. No u can't. Yes I can. No you can't. Yes I can yes I can yes I can.

----------


## kitstreasure

Great... Thanks, Girly, now I have Ethel Merman in my head!

----------


## dan991

> Whatever u can do I can so better. I can do anything better then you. No u can't. Yes I can. No you can't. Yes I can yes I can yes I can.


Not at all... I've just been doing it for years. You keep doing something over and over for years and sooner or later you get bored with it.

----------


## Etbthree

3 more  :LOL:

----------


## oatmeal69

Subscribed! Nice write up, and great science behind it. makes a lot of sense for those of us who still have a pot belly but aren't obese.

----------


## cj111

What's a good time to hold vacuums for? I usuually do 30 seconds and just do them throughout a cardio session... Any benefit to holding it longer? It makes the swear just start pourin out

----------


## dan991

> What's a good time to hold vacuums for? I usuually do 30 seconds and just do them throughout a cardio session... Any benefit to holding it longer? It makes the swear just start pourin out


Honestly whatever. I don't even time it. I just do them here and there when I'm doing whatever. I do them laying on the couch, in the shower, at work during meetings, etc. I don't have a specific routine for it.

----------


## dan991

> 3 more


Huh?  :Shrug:

----------


## oatmeal69

Started today. Suffice to say I was embarrassed. Seems like I can do crunches and machines all day long, but even one REAL leg lift was nearly impossible! I look forward to the results, especially to my ab wall tightening up and pulling my gut in.

----------


## gearbox

> Started today. Suffice to say I was embarrassed. Seems like I can do crunches and machines all day long, but even one REAL leg lift was nearly impossible! I look forward to the results, especially to my ab wall tightening up and pulling my gut in.


Lots of momentum are used with machines and standard crunch!

----------


## Knockout_Power

This is horrible Dan... Isn't there an easier way? Some pill or machine to shock my abs into growing?

Can't believe I haven't been in here before. Can't wait to run through this routine

----------


## cj111

Lol crunches on the machine, I value those as a waste.
I love seeing the little skinny guys on the ab machine and just LOAD the weight and pull so hard with their arms to try and get the thing to close..I've never liked the ab machine :/ 
What you think of rope crunches dan ?

----------


## dan991

> This is horrible Dan... *Isn't there an easier way? Some pill or machine to shock my abs into growing?*
> 
> Can't believe I haven't been in here before. Can't wait to run through this routine


Nope.

----------


## dan991

> Lol crunches on the machine, I value those as a waste.
> I love seeing the little skinny guys on the ab machine and just LOAD the weight and pull so hard with their arms to try and get the thing to close..I've never liked the ab machine :/ 
> *What you think of rope crunches dan ?*


I think they are a total waste of energy. The problem with crunches of any type (weighted or not) is that they use too many secondary muscles. Your back, hip flexors, etc. kick in to the point that your abs themselves are only doing a small percentage of the actual work out. That's why they are a warm up more than anything but I don't even do them anymore really. Maybe just bang out a few to stretch and get my heart pumping but that's about it.

----------


## dan991

> Lots of momentum are used with machines and standard crunch!


Yea as well as secondary muscles.

----------


## dan991

> Started today. Suffice to say I was embarrassed. Seems like I can do crunches and machines all day long, but even one REAL leg lift was nearly impossible! I look forward to the results, especially to my ab wall tightening up and pulling my gut in.


Nothing to be embarrassed about. A majority of the people that start this routine have a really hard time getting above a handful of reps until after 3-4 weeks. I did, lol.

----------


## cj111

I started at 3-4 , did It today and got 14. Then squeeze a few more out just brining the knees up

----------


## oatmeal69

I did it on a Roman Chair... I know I'm supposed to do hanging, but my lats are on fire (I'm just starting back with serious weight training after 8 months off) Still, even with the support on my back, doing the scissor kick or lifting my legs without bending at the knee was nearly impossible. I always thought my abs were pretty strong too - crunches, etc. present little challenge. 
What I'll REALLY be stoked about is if I can get my ab wall tightened up to flatten my stomach. I only have an inch of fat over my abs, but it hangs out and I hate it! Have you noticed this to any significant degree? Before I had thought it's visceral fat, but just by sucking it in, it disappears.

----------


## dan991

> I did it on a Roman Chair... I know I'm supposed to do hanging, but my lats are on fire (I'm just starting back with serious weight training after 8 months off) Still, even with the support on my back, doing the scissor kick or lifting my legs without bending at the knee was nearly impossible. I always thought my abs were pretty strong too - crunches, etc. present little challenge. 
> What I'll REALLY be stoked about is if I can get my ab wall tightened up to flatten my stomach. I only have an inch of fat over my abs, but it hangs out and I hate it! Have you noticed this to any significant degree? Before I had thought it's visceral fat, but just by sucking it in, it disappears.


The problem with using a roman chair or any type of support is that your body trains itself to do a motion and then its hard to break the habit. For example your hip flexors will assist in completing the rep and then when you do go to hanging exercises your hip flexors will try to assist and be on fire because they really can't. You want to teach your body/brain to use only your core even though at first it seems almost impossible. If you end up training your body to use other muscles; you're gonna hate life when doing the hanging exercises.

Yea- the one inch of fat is what I call "skinny fat man syndrome" lol. I had the exact same thing for the longest. You're skinny but at the same time you put on a pair of jeans and there is a little roll that hangs over when you sit down but isn't there when you stand up lol. That can be diet more than anything as water, salt, etc. do find a place to go and the older you get the more likely its going to head right for your midsection. Don't get discouraged though because it will go away with time. When you start doing the inner oblique exercises you'll see that disappear rather quickly. I've been there... trust me. Based on your avi pic we have a similar body type and our stats for height are the same; you're just a few years older than I am. My current avi pic is from earlier this week.

----------


## oatmeal69

I hear you and understand about Roman Chair. I will start with hanging next week. My lats are on fire though, I couldn't even reach up to grab the bar!
Here are my latest pix, taken this morning.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...EN-A-Diary-Log
You are speaking my language - That one inch and smooth look is the damnedest thing. I start a new cycle in two weeks, and I'd like to be leaner, but I've already lost so much muscle and strength with my "leaning" routine. It sometimes seems I can't win. Even so, I'm going to do your routine every week.

----------


## dan991

> I hear you and understand about Roman Chair. I will start with hanging next week. My lats are on fire though, I couldn't even reach up to grab the bar!
> Here are my latest pix, taken this morning.
> http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...EN-A-Diary-Log
> You are speaking my language - That one inch and smooth look is the damnedest thing. I start a new cycle in two weeks, and I'd like to be leaner, but I've already lost so much muscle and strength with my "leaning" routine. It sometimes seems I can't win. Even so, I'm going to do your routine every week.


Yep, we have the EXACT same build. I looked just like that back in the day. I've been training for a long time now but back when I first started we looked identical from neck to waist, lol. It'll come... just stay at it. I gotta look and see if I have some old pics before I started training/eating right. The difference between now and then is drastic. I have never cycled though. I'm on TRT now but I've never even gone higher than the docs orders so we'll see what that does when I do decide to do a blast cycle.

----------


## Zodiac82

not to mention that roman chair probably takes away probably 80% of the actual work....I was a roman chair guy the whole time(only about 3 weeks) of doing dans routine....then on Friday I did them hanging and man its a BIG difference lol I think I did about 4-5 reps on all....looked like a total wuss....definitely will be doin them hanging from now

----------


## oatmeal69

Yep, it's official, I can feel it in my hip flexors as well. That's not mentioning the fact that my abs - all of them - are on fire today.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

Dan. The ab slings. Looks like there is a slight design difference on-line. One has the back side closed off. The other is symmetrical front to back. Do you have a preference on which one i purchase???

----------


## killer41qc

Really good workout ! Thank you for sharing. Expecting good results

----------


## oatmeal69

My first workout Saturday with this routine was pathetic (see above) and my abs are still sore today. This is good!

----------


## dan991

> Dan. The ab slings. Looks like there is a slight design difference on-line. One has the back side closed off. The other is symmetrical front to back. Do you have a preference on which one i purchase???


Don't get the ones that are closed off.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Don't get the ones that are closed off.


Thank you Dan.  :Smilie:

----------


## oatmeal69

Say, those are some great legs! We should start a thread about them!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Say, those are some great legs! We should start a thread about them!


Hahahahaha. Late. Dan did already. Lol.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

Dan. One more question. I was wondering if I can do the exercise with the straps at home after I finish the routine with rest at the gym. I have a chin up bar at home that these can be slipped onto and then I don't need to be hauling these into the gym. My bag is so heavy with all my shows and skin care products, perfume etc.....

Pls say yes.

----------


## Brick

> Dan. One more question. I was wondering if I can do the exercise with the straps at home after I finish the routine with rest at the gym. I have a chin up bar at home that these can be slipped onto and then I don't need to be hauling these into the gym. My bag is so heavy with all my shows and skin care products, perfume etc.....
> 
> Pls say yes.


GGR. My gym won't let me use my straps and I can't use them at home. I've used them less then 10 times, want to buy mine?

----------


## POTTSY84

Good read pal

----------


## dan991

> Dan. One more question. I was wondering if I can do the exercise with the straps at home after I finish the routine with rest at the gym. I have a chin up bar at home that these can be slipped onto and then I don't need to be hauling these into the gym. My bag is so heavy with all my shows and skin care products, perfume etc.....
> 
> Pls say yes.


I don't care where you do your routine.... just do it... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> I don't care where you do your routine.... just do it...


So I can split this one out....thanks Dan.

----------


## kawika

Is it bad to do the ab vacuums everyday?

----------


## dan991

> Is it bad to do the ab vacuums everyday?


Nope. I do them whenever.

----------


## cj111

Do them during intercourse, helps to climax.

Give the ol kegel a good squeeze also for good measure

----------


## jumpshot31

This is an awesome post. This should be on bodybuilding.com or something lol. But seriously

----------


## kawika

> This is an awesome post. This should be on bodybuilding.com or something lol. But seriously


That site doesn't have sh*t on steroid .com ;-)

----------


## oatmeal69

Hmmm... My abs are not nearly as strong as I thought. I look like a flailing chicken while trying to do the hanging exercises. I can't even do the kicking or V stuff... I'm thinking I need to dial it back to more traditional sit-ups and crunches until I build more strength??
Also, having trouble maintaining my grip. Where is a good place to buy the slings?

----------


## cj111

Going to just reiterate, I love this routine.. I modified it a bit, but nothing drastic.
Started 2 months ago being able to do about 3 leg raises, up close to 20 now and pausing at the top after doing as many reps as I can.
I would suggest these exercises to anyone!!

----------


## oatmeal69

I really thought my abs didn't need much work - it's the one thing I THOUGHT I was gifted with. WRONG!
Unfortunately, it's that inch or so of fat covering them... I'm also hoping to tone them up and thus pull my ab wall in. It seems to hang out too much, even if I didn't have the fat.

----------


## cj111

I chuckle to myself now when I see everyone in the gym LOADING up the roman chair with 100+lbs and heaving it down as if they are really working their abs..lol..
Oatmeal, just keep going man, trust me you will get better at these exercises in no time and when you do you will love them that much more

----------


## Knockout_Power

Weighted situp machines are the biggest joke... much like how people think fatloss is area specific as thought doing ab work burns the fat in that localized area.

Dans ab routine is very similar to what we did in boxing and then adding in a lot of kicking a heavy bag really makes the obliques pop

----------


## oatmeal69

Agreed. One thing to look forward to is that if I'm that weak in this particular area, I should be able to notice some quick progress. I'm going to stick with it - even if I can only squeak one rep out, LOL

----------


## cj111

Do them with legs straight..then once you burn that out, switch to just bringing the knees up..its what I did at the beginning when I was weak like an old lady

----------


## Zodiac82

> Hmmm... My abs are not nearly as strong as I thought. I look like a flailing chicken while trying to do the hanging exercises. I can't even do the kicking or V stuff... I'm thinking I need to dial it back to more traditional sit-ups and crunches until I build more strength??
> Also, having trouble maintaining my grip. Where is a good place to buy the slings?


u can get the slings at pretty much any sports type store....walmart....shoot I think even Gnc sells them

----------


## chefjmo

Picked up the straps at Wal-Mart for 9 bucks. They work great!

----------


## oatmeal69

> Picked up the straps at Wal-Mart *for 9 bucks.* !


 Now that's what I wanted to hear!

----------


## kawika

> Picked up the straps at Wal-Mart for 9 bucks. They work great!


Yea that's where i got mine as well lol. Gotta love wally world

----------


## cj111

Dan, duno if youre around to answer this.
Looking to develop my lower two abs more, my obliques have got massive doing this routine as of lately, and the portion below your lower abs...I duno what its called.
But the two abs them selves, any exercises that can work those directly? Or am I just trippin

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Dan, duno if youre around to answer this.
> Looking to develop my lower two abs more, my obliques have got massive doing this routine as of lately, and the portion below your lower abs...I duno what its called.
> But the two abs them selves, any exercises that can work those directly? Or am I just trippin


I don't think Dan is active any more.  :Frown: . Perhaps a mod can help you out!!!

----------


## cj111

Aw dang, well ya if anyone else has an answer feel free to chime in.

----------


## oatmeal69

Bought the hanging straps at Wal-Mart for $10. They make a HUGE difference. It's MUCH easier to hang/hold on, and focus all your effort on doing the exercise and using your torso to stop all extraneous movement. 
I'm a little stronger and able to at least do a couple reps of each exercise. I can do the side leg lifts all day long for some reason. I'm gonna need to review the video links again.

----------


## Hulking2016

Nice thread

----------


## thehor

I enjoyed everything about this article very helpful.

----------


## oatmeal69

Yeah, I'm still working this routine - and seeing results!

----------


## Papiriqui

Anyone has a link for a video on Hanging V, the link attached doesnt work nor can i find it on youtube!!

----------


## gearbox

> Anyone has a link for a video on Hanging V, the link attached doesnt work nor can i find it on youtube!!


Legs up straight out then extend legs apart as far.as your flexibility allows then back together and legs come down

----------


## tigerspawn

Dan thanks for the informative thread

----------


## oatmeal69

Can't extend legs straight out without a bend at the knees. Never could...

----------


## Papiriqui

> Legs up straight out then extend legs apart as far.as your flexibility allows then back together and legs come down


I can understand what you mean and also what i read on the thread but still cant visually see it lol. I need at least a picture, weird but i cant for some reason!!

----------


## Alright john

I am going to try this!
I used have an 8 pack but gave up smoking 12 years ago and gained weight all over but most of it on my stomach. 
Currently doing mixed cardio involving the usual suspects
But also mixed it up with a lot of boxing cardio. My top abs are now showing just the bottom tyre to loose. Bf about 17.5%

----------


## gearbox

> I can understand what you mean and also what i read on the thread but still cant visually see it lol. I need at least a picture, weird but i cant for some reason!!


No prob. Its just a simple v motion in the air. Mine sucks cause my abs can't do it very well nor is my groin flexible

----------


## bstacked

Do some wipers and leg upd on a pull up bar as well as incline bench take a weight and shoot for the ceiling some crunches pull downs with the rope like ur praying to allah lol jk but serious at the same time no offense

----------


## Doom44

awesome post

----------


## Papiriqui

I have a couple questions after reading this thread like 10 times already lol. 

-Hanging Side Leg Lifts, the video shows one thing but the explanation says to do it differently, anyone knows of a video where they actually perform it as it should be?

General question, i guess i will kind of rock until i get some strength in the inner wall, i will try to do it slow to avoid using other body parts but i guess i have to get use to these routines.

Also why begin by performing said routine once a week and incrementing it after a long while? I would think that starting 2-3 times a week would not only yield better results but also the more you do it the faster you get the proper motion of whatever you are training, unless is meant more for the abs so they dont get used to it? Just curious behind this reasoning thats all.

----------


## gearbox

> I have a couple questions after reading this thread like 10 times already lol.
> 
> -Hanging Side Leg Lifts, the video shows one thing but the explanation says to do it differently, anyone knows of a video where they actually perform it as it should be?
> 
> General question, i guess i will kind of rock until i get some strength in the inner wall, i will try to do it slow to avoid using other body parts but i guess i have to get use to these routines.
> 
> Also why begin by performing said routine once a week and incrementing it after a long while? I would think that starting 2-3 times a week would not only yield better results but also the more you do it the faster you get the proper motion of whatever you are training, unless is meant more for the abs so they dont get used to it? Just curious behind this reasoning thats all.


Its actually just the opposite. To work the inner wall you need a strict rep. If you can only do one good rep then do that. Do not swing. 
If you do one good , slow, controlled, rep your good. You will move up quickly I promise. Once you do your rep you can do knees to chest. Thats what I do.
Regarding once a week training I would go off if your sore or not.

----------


## gearbox

You tube hanging leg raises
Its the 3 rd one from top. White kid holding onto wide pull up bar. Can't copy with my.phone

----------


## Papiriqui

> You tube hanging leg raises
> Its the 3 rd one from top. White kid holding onto wide pull up bar. Can't copy with my.phone


Thanks bud! Yeah i was just talking lol, kind of tried today to get an idea and i dont think i could get my legs up lol, i can do them in the machine for pull ups and dips which it has a padded back lol but this is a whole nother level!!!

I should be getting by the afternoon the Hanging Straps!! Cant wait to begin doing this!!

----------


## gearbox

> Thanks bud! Yeah i was just talking lol, kind of tried today to get an idea and i dont think i could get my legs up lol, i can do them in the machine for pull ups and dips which it has a padded back lol but this is a whole nother level!!!
> 
> I should be getting by the afternoon the Hanging Straps!! Cant wait to begin doing this!!


The hanging with the pad at your back works different muscles. That hanging leg raises will come a lot quicker than you think. I bet within two months you'll be doing 10 strict all the way past 90 degrees (straight out in front of you)

----------


## cj111

Started this routine(ish) 4 months ago, its boss. Just started doing the windshield whipers, wow what a burn.

----------


## gearbox

> Started this routine(ish) 4 months ago, its boss. Just started doing the windshield whipers, wow what a burn.


 Wipers are definitely for the advanced. if you're doing them right. I just try to bring my leg raises even higher and hold longer!
I still struggle with the twists

----------


## Hydroponics

The p90x ab ripper x is great too

----------


## Hulking2016

Nice

----------


## oatmeal69

Soi is it just me or are others not flexible enough to do these exercises with their legs straight? The higher I bring them, the more I have to bend my knees.

----------


## gearbox

Knees also bend cause ab strength. Higher you go more pressure on the mid sections and your legs are begging to let you bend them.

----------


## Papiriqui

Well i will be starting down this road this coming wednesday. I hope i can actually get up from bed on thursday lol.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Well i will be starting down this road this coming wednesday. I hope i can actually get up from bed on thursday lol.


Do u have the straps???

----------


## Papiriqui

> Do u have the straps???


Yes i do and i used them today for the first time. Definitely need to get use to the straps and workout. I knew this was going to be hard but i never anticipated it was going to be borderline impossible LOL. The only time i felt my abs was when i did the decline bench crunches for warmup. 

I tried controlling the motion upwards and back down but kept moving, i think i might have been trying to lift the legs to high like someone whos been doing it for ages LOL. I didnt even tried to get past the regular leg raises since i couldnt find the sweet spot.

I tried contracting my abs, nothing, slowly, nothing, without the straps, nothing, the straps actually made my arms with the bloodlines below the skin.

I will continue to do this until i find the spot where i feel my abs really getting a workout, until then i am unhappy. Also i will be trying other days in the week to do some regular leg raises where you have the back support to help the muscle get some workout out i guess, also do the decline bench warm up, decline bench twist and leg cross twist as well to help get some endurance in that area and perhaps it will be a bit easier finding the spot where i can concentrate the workout on the abs/core.

I felt my quads getting tight LOL, center of middle of the back also, literally my arms were on fire and everything else except my abs.

So if you went through this or you have some advise, go ahead and start typing LOL because i need all the help i can get!!!

----------


## MajorPectorial

To do this u have to connevt "mind to muscle", itsounds as if u were predominantly using your satoris muscles amongst others. U must try to imagine ur legs including!!! hips are kinda rigid. Unmoveable. Meaning you are "crunching" the leg raises in whichever direction. The decline warmup crunches should give u the connective "movement" for the excercise. Its actually a helluva lot harder,when u do it correctly. And it WILL burn the hell out of your abdominal core.
Hope that helps. Remember bend at the lower.back fetal kind of curl. Dont just move ur legs up n down. Or its a leg excercise. Not the ab excercise your attempting to produce.

----------


## oatmeal69

Yeah, I'm learning that a lot of this has to do with teaching your mind to use your abs - not other areas that you normally would - to do the work. If you do it right, ONE rep will burn on some of them, like the split leg raise thing. Some I'm only able to do one strict rep still.

----------


## Papiriqui

Well i tried today just to try to get the hang of it without the straps. I think i got it, not a 100% yet but that will come with time and practice, this time i definitely felt my abs on fire, trick for me was bending the legs a bit and coming a bit higher than L shape. I think i will try just regular leg raises for a few weeks, build some strength and endurance and then jump into this routine otherwise i know i will not make it to the last exercise LOL.

I use mind to muscle connection for everything and i was on this but for some reason i could not perform them correctly yesterday. Although i spent all day reading and watching videos and going crazy that i guess i visualized in my mind so much how to properly do it that today i felt it from the get go........

----------


## MajorPectorial

> Well i tried today just to try to get the hang of it without the straps. I think i got it, not a 100% yet but that will come with time and practice, this time i definitely felt my abs on fire, trick for me was bending the legs a bit and coming a bit higher than L shape. I think i will try just regular leg raises for a few weeks, build some strength and endurance and then jump into this routine otherwise i know i will not make it to the last exercise LOL.
> 
> I use mind to muscle connection for everything and i was on this but for some reason i could not perform them correctly yesterday. Although i spent all day reading and watching videos and going crazy that i guess i visualized in my mind so much how to properly do it that today i felt it from the get go........


nice one. I havent even attempted this routine as yet. Ive done a few of the excercises already so know just how hard its gunna be so trying to condition myself. Shoyld be good to go next month. 
Getting that connection to any muscle is really hard for anyone. I think i only 'get' it due to the fact i used to go through every muscle group each night flexing them 1000 times. Up until the missus (now ex) used to go mad bout the bed bouncing round for an hour lol

----------


## Papiriqui

> nice one. I havent even attempted this routine as yet. Ive done a few of the excercises already so know just how hard its gunna be so trying to condition myself. Shoyld be good to go next month. 
> Getting that connection to any muscle is really hard for anyone. I think i only 'get' it due to the fact i used to go through every muscle group each night flexing them 1000 times. Up until the missus (now ex) used to go mad bout the bed bouncing round for an hour lol


Well when i said i got it i meant how to feel the burning sensation in the core/abs rather than my quads and back. I still cannot perform 10 leg raises correctly to where i am happy 100% but like i said, that will come with time and as you said conditioning.

I will be doing this exercises separately to build strength and stamina because i can tell you one thing, if i try to do this routine i will not get close to finishing it. After 6-7 leg raises i tell you that my arms or my core are on fire so forget about jumping to the next exercise, and i am not even taking it to failure due to my arms getting tired without the straps, im yet to try it with the straps now that i learn how to do the leg raises but im sure i need to get use to the straps as well.

Definitely can see this routine building some great abs!!!! Happy i found it  :Wink:

----------


## oatmeal69

It may be that I'm on cycle and dropping fat as well, but this routine is killing it for me too. My abs are hard as rocks, and seem to be growing too.

----------


## Papiriqui

> It may be that I'm on cycle and dropping fat as well, but this routine is killing it for me too. My abs are hard as rocks, and seem to be growing too.


Well i think on cycle pretty much anything works lol, but definitely this routine works the shyt out of your abs/core.

----------


## Bodacious

Good read

----------


## cruzetor

wonderful post. thanks m8

----------


## Stubbs8

I tried this last night, and failed miserably. It's the side leg lifts I am having trouble understanding. Do you hang straight and move your legs sideways, or do you crunch like the girl in the video? Can't seem to get it. Awesome post tho! Def subscribing to this one!

----------


## gearbox

I do it like the video. I bring my right knee/thigh and touch my left elbow and try to hold for 1 second

----------


## Stubbs8

Ok thanks. I'm just thinking, my body doesn't bend that way, so I knew I was doing something wrong. I'll give that a go.

----------


## Stubbs8

Wait, shouldn't your right knee/thigh touch your right elbow? How can you keep your legs straight and not bring your knees up doing this?

----------


## gearbox

I was talking about the hanging side leg lifts.

----------


## Stubbs8

Right. Sorry I just can't picture it. So I should just do what the girl on the video does, and that's good enough?

----------


## Stubbs8

I was picturing something like exercise #3 or 7 in the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw5u0rnMM20

----------


## Stubbs8

> I was picturing something like exercise #3 or 7 in the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw5u0rnMM20


But I tried it and I felt nothing at all. Seemed like a waste of time, but I'm sure I wasn't doing something right. I just want to feel the burn in my obliques like the rest of my abs.

----------


## oatmeal69

I have added an exercise I saw a couple other guys doing. Stand sideways to a cable pull down, grab it, hold it to your shoulder, and use only your sides to pull it down. use heavy weight. That seems to nail my obliques pretty good, but you have to focus on not using other muscles to help.

----------


## Alann314

Wow so I just did these at the gym for the first time and the whole workout only took me 8 minutes...I know, pathetic but you gotta start somewhere. I was reaching failure on all the hanging raises at about 15. Let me just say I absolutely hate you right now Dan and I will probably hate you more when I wake up tomorrow...but in 3 months I will absolutely love you for sharing this. Just one question though. Is it better to start off with this before working out or do it last when you finish your workout.

----------


## gearbox

> Wow so I just did these at the gym for the first time and the whole workout only took me 8 minutes...I know, pathetic but you gotta start somewhere. I was reaching failure on all the hanging raises at about 15. Let me just say I absolutely hate you right now Dan and I will probably hate you more when I wake up tomorrow...but in 3 months I will absolutely love you for sharing this. Just one question though. Is it better to start off with this before working out or do it last when you finish your workout.


It matters how important abs are to you. I choose them first for when I am fresh. Doesn't matter either way!
15 leg raises is a lot....

----------


## Stubbs8

So any word on the technique on the side leg raises? This video shows how I imagined it based on Dan's description. Exercises #3 and 7 in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw5u0rnMM20

----------


## Zodiac82

> So any word on the technique on the side leg raises? This video shows how I imagined it based on Dan's description. Exercises #3 and 7 in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw5u0rnMM20


I believe so....or how u would bring ur legs up for a leg lift....instead of straight in front of u angle them out 45° from u....I do both as its unclear which way

-Release the Kracken!!!-

----------


## Stubbs8

Awesome! Thank you for your reply!! I tried like in that video, and felt nothing really. Maybe I'm not strong enough to move my legs over and up far enough yet

----------


## gearbox

> Awesome! Thank you for your reply!! I tried like in that video, and felt nothing really. Maybe I'm not strong enough to move my legs over and up far enough yet


Probably not. Many of these moves are advanced and many cheat and use momentum and other muscles to complete movements. Stay strict and isolate those abs

----------


## Alann314

> It matters how important abs are to you. I choose them first for when I am fresh. Doesn't matter either way!
> 15 leg raises is a lot....


Thank you for answering my question. I'm 5'5 and 125 pounds with 11% BF so my abs start to show when I work them out in about a week! My abs come in extremely fast for me so I asked myself why not just do them if they are the easiest muscle for me to see results with. I'm definitely going to do them before my workout. Thanks again gearbox!!

----------


## gearbox

> Thank you for answering my question. I'm 5'5 and 125 pounds with 11% BF so my abs start to show when I work them out in about a week! My abs come in extremely fast for me so I asked myself why not just do them if they are the easiest muscle for me to see results with. I'm definitely going to do them before my workout. Thanks again gearbox!!


 Not a problem happy to help. Where did you get your body fat check at, to know you're around 11 percent?

----------


## Dougiefresh7707

Gunna do this tommrrow after back workout but just vacuums for two days straight has my abs tight is this normal or are my abs just weak?

----------


## Alann314

> Not a problem happy to help. Where did you get your body fat check at, to know you're around 11 percent?


A trainer at the gym. I hope it was accurate because I look like I have mass and no visible hanging fat or anything like that and you can see the small outlines of my abs.

----------


## MuscleInk

> It matters how important abs are to you. I choose them first for when I am fresh. Doesn't matter either way!
> 15 leg raises is a lot....


I do them last.

Roman chair leg raises: 15 x 5
Cable crunches: 15 x 5 (120lbs)
Russian twists: 15 x 5 (25lbs)

----------


## gearbox

> A trainer at the gym. I hope it was accurate because I look like I have mass and no visible hanging fat or anything like that and you can see the small outlines of my abs.


Sounds like your around 16% bro. You can pm me a pics if you want. Either way doesn't matter but I asked cause many ppl have no clue what real 10% looks like. We each hold it differently but a true 10% is tough

----------


## gearbox

> I do them last.
> 
> Roman chair leg raises: 15 x 5
> Cable crunches: 15 x 5 (120lbs)
> Russian twists: 15 x 5 (25lbs)


Last! I am surprised you can do them at all with your deficit you got going on...

----------


## MuscleInk

> Last! I am surprised you can do them at all with your deficit you got going on...


No guts, no glory.  :Wink:

----------


## Alann314

> Sounds like your around 16% bro. You can pm me a pics if you want. Either way doesn't matter but I asked cause many ppl have no clue what real 10% looks like. We each hold it differently but a true 10% is tough


Yea no problem ill Pm a pic after the gym. You can give me advice and probably a good estimate on my BF%

----------


## MuscleInk

> Sounds like your around 16% bro. You can pm me a pics if you want. Either way doesn't matter but I asked cause many ppl have no clue what real 10% looks like. We each hold it differently but a true 10% is tough


Amen!!!

Chasing 6%!!!!!!!

----------


## gearbox

> Amen!!!
> 
> Chasing 6%!!!!!!!


Chase is the correct word!!!!
Wanna bet who get there first old man!

----------


## Alann314

> Sounds like your around 16% bro. You can pm me a pics if you want. Either way doesn't matter but I asked cause many ppl have no clue what real 10% looks like. We each hold it differently but a true 10% is tough


Well since I am a newbie poster it wont let me send PM's for some reason so I'll just link them here. 5'5 125 pounds. Most fat is located in the love handle area  :Frown:

----------


## MuscleInk

> Chase is the correct word!!!!
> Wanna bet who get there first old man!


You've got a head start peewee.

----------


## gearbox

> You've got a head start peewee.


A man with your knowledge, skills, money, and drive should pass me up. I am on test only. Not every compound known to man  :Smilie:

----------


## gearbox

> Well since I am a newbie poster it wont let me send PM's for some reason so I'll just link them here. 5'5 125 pounds. Most fat is located in the love handle area 
> <img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=139342"/><img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=139345"/><img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=139346"/>


You have a decent base to start build from. You are about 14-16% based on the pics. 
Keep up the work and gains will come.

----------


## MuscleInk

> A man with your knowledge, skills, money, and drive should pass me up. I am on test only. Not every compound known to man


More is better isn't it?  :Wink: 

....and just to clarify, I have NOT done SARMs (yet). Lol

....and don't you worry, I'm gonna get there....if the starvation doesn't kill me first. Lol

----------


## gearbox

> More is better isn't it? 
> 
> ....and just to clarify, I have NOT done SARMs (yet). Lol
> 
> ....and don't you worry, I'm gonna get there....if the starvation doesn't kill me first. Lol


I can't wait to see it. The dedication alone tells a lot about the individual  :Smilie: 
I am shooting for 9% then reevaluate depending on how I look

----------


## Zodiac82

> You have a decent base to start build from. You are about 14-16% based on the pics.
> Keep up the work and gains will come.


agreed....definitely good base to begin with and yeh roughly 15%

-Release the Kracken!!!-

----------


## Zodiac82

oh and about doin the side legs as in the YouTube vid....I do those particular ones using the roman chair....lol ppl look at me like im crazy but it hits em like crazy on that one

-Release the Kracken!!!-

----------


## MuscleInk

> I can't wait to see it. The dedication alone tells a lot about the individual 
> I am shooting for 9% then reevaluate depending on how I look


You're on the right path! Keep doing it buddy. We both know that some days are harder than others but keep your eyes on the prize!!!! 

Remember you have to PUSH every day!

Persist
Until
Something
Happens

----------


## Zodiac82

> Remember you have to PUSH every day!
> 
> Persist
> Until
> Something
> Happens


I like that

-Release the Kracken!!!-

----------


## gearbox

> You're on the right path! Keep doing it buddy. We both know that some days are harder than others but keep your eyes on the prize!!!!
> 
> Remember you have to PUSH every day!
> 
> Persist
> Until
> Something
> Happens


Now it doesn't sound like lifting anymore but something else lol  :Smilie:

----------


## Dougiefresh7707

Just did this workout and my core must be weak I couldn't even to the full workout I had to do crunches while my partner did the workout and vise versa idk if that has an effect but dam I know ill be sore tommorrow.

----------


## Alann314

> You have a decent base to start build from. You are about 14-16% based on the pics. 
> Keep up the work and gains will come.


Now I feel like a fatass lol. Would u recommend to keep bulking and worry about BF later?

----------


## MuscleInk

> Now it doesn't sound like lifting anymore but something else lol


Lol.....if it burns cals, DO IT!!!!!

----------


## gearbox

> Now I feel like a fatass lol. Would u recommend to keep bulking and worry about BF later?


I would recommend seeing if you can afford to eat clean and follow a solid macro split. To see if you have what it takes to follow a cut or bulk diet. Many ppl have it backwards with bulking I they believe thats the time to cheat and I say thats the no no time.

----------


## gearbox

> Lol.....if it burns cals, DO IT!!!!!


Told her it will not fit my macros!!!

----------


## MuscleInk

> Told her it will not fit my macros!!!


Good man! Lol

----------


## MuscleInk

> Told her it will not fit my macros!!!


HAW told me I seem unhappy lately. Well...DUH!!!! I'm fvcking HUNGRY AND TIRED all the damn time right now!!!!! Lol

----------


## gearbox

> HAW told me I seem unhappy lately. Well...DUH!!!! I'm fvcking HUNGRY AND TIRED all the damn time right now!!!!! Lol


Tell her to spend less time noticing your mood and more time cooking your plain fish or chicken so it's ready for you when your hungry which is all the time

----------


## Papiriqui

I have the same issue with the side leg raises, the times i have tried it i cant feel shyt. Just my regular ol abs lol. Im going to try different angles and bending legs and stuff until i find the spot where i feel my obliques getting a pounding. So far i have not tried the whole workout together, i just do ol leg lifts and some wood chops and the side crunch thing along with the decline bench crunch at the beginning.

I can do already 15-20 with a small pause at the bottom to make sure there is no rocking, after first set my forearms are on fire!!!!

The hanging straps unless i keep trying to use them to get use to them, they dont work for me, i get blood marks under my skin, lines of blood that takes days to go away just like when i do heavy weight hack squats.

Just ordered some straps/hooks to aid in the hanging part so i can perform a few more reps and give my arms a bit of rest.

I can definitely see when i contract my abs getting deeper, obviously i need to lose some major fat around my stomach but i can see the improvement on my abs for sure!!!!

----------


## Alann314

So just a progress report here. I have been at this for just sly of 2 weeks now and I do them everyday at the gym after my workout. Let me just say...the results have been insane. My core has never been this strong before in my life and I can see the 8 pack already coming in with some very nice obliques. Luckily I have the advantage of weighing 125 so results show quickly on abs. I will do before and after pics after 1 month. My abs become extremely visible in the morning when I wake up but less visible during the day because of all the food I consume and along with consuming a gallon of water a day they become less visible throughout the day. Just have to say this is my favorite workout even though I feel like Im going to puke after lol.

----------


## oatmeal69

I just took the pic in my avatar 2 days ago. Anyone who tells you that you don't need to or shouldn't work abs is wrong. I have been this lean before and not had the ab development I do now.
I'm guessing I'm at about 12-14%. Overall goal would be about 10%, but I do not want to shed muscle to do it.

----------


## Zodiac82

> I just took the pic in my avatar 2 days ago. Anyone who tells you that you don't need to or shouldn't work abs is wrong. I have been this lean before and not had the ab development I do now.
> I'm guessing I'm at about 12-14%. Overall goal would be about 10%, but I do not want to shed muscle to do it.


more definition from ur previous av....good job

-Release the Kracken!!!-

----------


## gearbox

> I just took the pic in my avatar 2 days ago. Anyone who tells you that you don't need to or shouldn't work abs is wrong. I have been this lean before and not had the ab development I do now.
> I'm guessing I'm at about 12-14%. Overall goal would be about 10%, but I do not want to shed muscle to do it.


Definitely looking good oat!
Skin is tightening up!

----------


## oatmeal69

Thanks guys. Not TOO bad for a guy in his mid-forties, LOL Still got a lotta work to do though!
This routine is a great reference though, I modified it a little to suit me, but I can definitely say it helped me a lot!

----------


## Tron3219

> Thanks guys. Not TOO bad for a guy in his mid-forties, LOL Still got a lotta work to do though!
> This routine is a great reference though, I modified it a little to suit me, but I can definitely say it helped me a lot!


Hell ur in better shape then a lot in there mid 20's! Good on ya guy!

----------


## gearbox

> Thanks guys. Not TOO bad for a guy in his mid-forties, LOL Still got a lotta work to do though!
> This routine is a great reference though, I modified it a little to suit me, but I can definitely say it helped me a lot!


Wow!!!!
Mid forties. Thats seriously awesome. I see very few guys in there forties in decent shape at my gym. None are that ripped or thin.
Major props

----------


## Stubbs8

> I have the same issue with the side leg raises, the times i have tried it i cant feel shyt. Just my regular ol abs lol. Im going to try different angles and bending legs and stuff until i find the spot where i feel my obliques getting a pounding. So far i have not tried the whole workout together, i just do ol leg lifts and some wood chops and the side crunch thing along with the decline bench crunch at the beginning.
> 
> I can do already 15-20 with a small pause at the bottom to make sure there is no rocking, after first set my forearms are on fire!!!!
> 
> The hanging straps unless i keep trying to use them to get use to them, they dont work for me, i get blood marks under my skin, lines of blood that takes days to go away just like when i do heavy weight hack squats.
> 
> Just ordered some straps/hooks to aid in the hanging part so i can perform a few more reps and give my arms a bit of rest.
> 
> I can definitely see when i contract my abs getting deeper, obviously i need to lose some major fat around my stomach but i can see the improvement on my abs for sure!!!!


I feel you man. I can do those side leg lifts all day long and never feel anything. My core is far from strong, so something's up. I've read the description and watched the video a lot. I got nothin.

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## oatmeal69

> I can do those side leg lifts all day long and never feel anything. My core is far from strong, so something's up.


I'm the same, side leg-lifts all day, but can't even do more than a couple front lifts keeping my legs fully extended.
Cable pulldowns, using your obliques and thinking really hard about not enlisting your back, arms, etc. I use a pretty decent amount of weight, and if you really think about isolating those obliques, you can really get 'em to burn.

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## Dougiefresh7707

> I feel you man. I can do those side leg lifts all day long and never feel anything. My core is far from strong, so something's up. I've read the description and watched the video a lot. I got nothin.


Your not isolating the muscle focus on not swinging at all this means also go slow and try kicking out slowly at the top and back in slowly it should burn alot and a big mistake on wood chops is a lot of weight it just need resistance and this will help you isolate don't throw a lot of weight on it

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## Stubbs8

> Your not isolating the muscle focus on not swinging at all this means also go slow and try kicking out slowly at the top and back in slowly it should burn alot and a big mistake on wood chops is a lot of weight it just need resistance and this will help you isolate don't throw a lot of weight on it


Thanks for the good advice. Do you do the side lifts like the girl in the video? That's how I try them and I think I'm just not understanding the form/technique. Thanks again for your help with this, been struggling with it.

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## InTransit

Yep - you're upper body should not move - if it is, you're not doing it right. Same for front raises, see people doing them wrong all the time having their upper body shifting like crazy.

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## Dougiefresh7707

> Thanks for the good advice. Do you do the side lifts like the girl in the video? That's how I try them and I think I'm just not understanding the form/technique. Thanks again for your help with this, been struggling with it.


I knew of the workout befor so I'm not sure how the girl in the video does it lol? YouTube I'm sure will have the proper form but if you have a friend have him help you practice form by holding your torso so you don't swing the. Practice without being held.

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## Stubbs8

Ahh, good call. I'll try that. In the description it says to not bring your knees up and to keep your legs completely straight, which I find hard to visualize, as my body doesn't bend that way. In the video however, it shows a girl bending her knees and bringing her legs up like a hanging side crunch? Anyone have a link to how this should be done properly?

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## etownfit

> I'm the same, side leg-lifts all day, but can't even do more than a couple front lifts keeping my legs fully extended.
> Cable pulldowns, using your obliques and thinking really hard about not enlisting your back, arms, etc. I use a pretty decent amount of weight, and if you really think about isolating those obliques, you can really get 'em to burn.



2 good exercises that I use to kill my obliques are 
1. tabata (20 seconds on 10 seconds off for 8 rounds) plank twists
start in the plank position when your on your forarms abs contracted and twist touching your knee on the ground on the opposite side of the body. Alternate and twist.

2. Tabata knee raise in push up position and in forearm plank position. bring knee out and up as close to your elbow as you can tighten your core as you bring your leg up so you are using your abs to bring your leg up. alternate legs and positions 1 round on the forearms next round in the push up position. 

I have noticed serious development in my abs since I started adding this in 2 to 3 times a week.  :Smilie:

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## oatmeal69

I trained ab's today and thought about this conversation. When I first started this routine, the side leg lifts really worked. Now I'm much stronger there and can literally do them until I get bored with little strain. Today I tried doing them hyper strict, very slowly and with total attention to detail... Still nothing.
As you get stronger, you're going to have to add weight to this or you will just get what you've already got. - like any other muscle.
I did side/lateral raises(?) with 65 LB dumbbells, and got them to wear out pretty quickly. We'll see how sore I am over the next few days.

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## gearbox

> I trained ab's today and thought about this conversation. When I first started this routine, the side leg lifts really worked. Now I'm much stronger there and can literally do them until I get bored with little strain. Today I tried doing them hyper strict, very slowly and with total attention to detail... Still nothing.
> As you get stronger, you're going to have to add weight to this or you will just get what you've already got. - like any other muscle.
> I did side/lateral raises(?) with 65 LB dumbbells, and got them to wear out pretty quickly. We'll see how sore I am over the next few days.


Whatever oat!!!
I am still plenty sore from the normal routine.
I add in toes to bar and windshield wipers. I do not do the crunches either

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## Java Man

I still haven't got the motivation to start.this ab program yet but you guys that are posting here are making my motivation meter go up a little more every time I read it. There is a good reason why my AV has a shirt on  :Smilie:

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## oatmeal69

It works without a doubt. My avatar is from a week ago. 3 months ago I had nothing - totally smooth, and an inch of fat. I have also leaned up, but I know the muscles have become hard and more pronounced too. Still though, I think the resistance needs to be progressive. As you get stronger you have to continually add weight or make it harder somehow, or you won't grow. 

Interestingly, I still can't raise my legs and keep them straight anywhere above about a 45 degree angle. I feel it nore in my legs / hams though when I do it. I think for me it's a flexibility issue. I can do knees to chest all day long now, but straight legs - no way!

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## tarmyg

I started this routine this past Saturday! As my wife pointed out, I know s**t about taking a picture that shows the correct image of myself so she will help me this coming Sunday :-) But I am sure as hell this routine will help me out!

~T

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## NACH3

Awesome write up "DAN THE AB MAN"! I've had 4 ventral hernia repairs - they cut right thru the middle(parallel w/my body... 14"scar from sternum to low abs)... So they do come in but I can feel the space in between both sides of my "6pk"... The middle where they would connect - theirs s hollow space - hRd to fill at top and bottom... Any suggestions?? I've just started vacuuming and from past experience it is a great way to build up those stabilizing muscles inside! Thx!

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## eroc

great post, i just found out i have hiatal hernia and the doctor recommended i do not do weighted abs. for reference i was doing 20 lbs db leg raises and 150lbs rope crunches amongst other things. also doing abs 4 days a week and not liking th results. more of that girdle look you mentioned. will try these a few times a week for sure

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## RaginCajun

Bump!

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## Euroholic

Bump!!!!!!

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## MrBafner

Simple and easy reading. Very well put together

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## Stalker3060

Ok I've never trained abs seriously and keen to get more definition without losing body fat because I'm in bulk for life haha I'll follow the frequency recommend and post results and use this to keep me accountable. Wish I trained them on cycle but make the most of my time off.

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## Obs

> Ok I've never trained abs seriously and keen to get more definition without losing body fat because I'm in bulk for life haha I'll follow the frequency recommend and post results and use this to keep me accountable. Wish I trained them on cycle but make the most of my time off.


Good bump!
I have referenced this thread several times but had lost it.

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## Obs

> Awesome write up "DAN THE AB MAN"! I've had 4 ventral hernia repairs - they cut right thru the middle(parallel w/my body... 14"scar from sternum to low abs)... So they do come in but I can feel the space in between both sides of my "6pk"... The middle where they would connect - theirs s hollow space - hRd to fill at top and bottom... Any suggestions?? I've just started vacuuming and from past experience it is a great way to build up those stabilizing muscles inside! Thx!


Where the fuck is nach? I want to make him feel small

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## MuscleScience

How have I not seen this thread before?!?

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## Obs

> How have I not seen this thread before?!?


Thats what you get for fornicating with whores of babylon. You miss shit.

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## MuscleScience

> Thats what you get for fornicating with whores of babylon. You miss shit.


Indeed...

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## kelkel

You guys really do abs?

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## Obs

> You guys really do abs?


No I just thought about it a lot, some time ago. It was terrible.

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## kelkel

> No I just thought about it a lot, some time ago. It was terrible.



Like a nightmare.

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## -Ender-

> You guys really do abs?


I did this workout many times after Dan posted it. I even bought slings. They now look very useful hanging on the wall next to the pull up bar....for a few years.

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## Couchlockd

Ab workout. Jack off a few times throughout the day. Then at night have 90 minute long rough sex with your wife with a sweater on.

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## Obs

> Ab workout. Jack off a few times throughout the day. Then at night have 90 minute long rough sex with your wife with a sweater on.


Someone make this a sticky^^^

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## kelkel

> Someone make this a sticky^^^



If you did all that it would already be sticky.

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## bethdoth

I started doing this way back about 7 years ago. I had very little to no Abs when I started. I did this routine religiously like a crazy man for 6 months. Here is the result.

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## GirlyGymRat

> I started doing this way back about 7 years ago. I had very little to no Abs when I started. I did this routine religiously like a crazy man for 6 months. Here is the result.


Impressive!!! 

 abs arent just made in the kitchen!

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## RaginCajun

Bump

I need to start doing these

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## GirlyGymRat

> Bump
> 
> I need to start doing these


Me 2!

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## Littlearnie

Ok so I’m gonna throw these in once a week.
Trial run today but need some help understanding the routine.

What I don’t understand is going to failure without rest. There’s 4 hanging exercises in a row. If there’s no rest between how can you got to failure doing the first hanging raises then go straight into the next hanging exercise and do any more than 1 rep??

Also the same for the sides. Wood chops and Croat leg crunches.
With the crunches how can you go to failure then switch sides and go straigt to failure again. You would never get even reps??


Also a few more questions mixed into my first attempt stats.

*Decline Bench Crunches: 1 x Failure*

20 reps
25 reps

*Hanging Leg Lifts: 1 x Failure*

19 reps. Does it matter if there straight leg or bent leg?

*Hanging Leg Kicks: 1 x Failure*

Managed about 10 seconds like this;

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TUsZJZjSy8M

Or was it supposed to be this?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B41MWjEmh_0

*Hanging Side Leg Lifts: 1 x Failure (each side)*

7

*Hanging V: 1 x Failure*

I tried like this?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FrZBflOxEUY

There was no point as I couldn’t get my legs pst horizontal... tried 2!

*Wood Chop High to Low: 1 x 50 (each side)*
Did with 4.5kg weight!
Hard from about 40 but pushed through to 50

*Wood Chop Low to High: 1 x 50 (each side)*

I pushed through to 50 on my first side hard from about 30 with a few slight stop starts
Rest then did my other side. Hurt from about 20, a few stop starts.
But also my delts were burning mainly rear delt! :/

Is this due to incorrect form or just not use to the exercise?


*Decline Bench Twist Crunch: 1 x Failure*
22

*Leg Cross Twist Crunch: 1 x Failure* 
25. Second side was a struggle to get to 25.

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## Littlearnie

Damn I know this site is deserted but no remaining members ever done this??

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## GirlyGymRat

> Damn I know this site is deserted but no remaining members ever done this??


Several active members still posting but in their own threads. Samson...a few others. Its brutal but effective!

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## Littlearnie

> Several active members still posting but in their own threads. Samson...a few others. It’s brutal but effective!


Have you tried it? 
I’ve looked through a few threads but can’t fins any other reference..

I’ve found out I was doing the v lifts wrong so that helps.

I’ve been doing them as individual sets with a minutes rest in between.

Wood chopping one feels weird and not like it’s hitting abs..


I do this and a different routine as I don’t feel I’m doing this properly.

I say the biggest thing I’ve taken from this so far is the vacumes. I’ve never here’s of them before but as I read about them they seem just as good for your abs as planks?

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## GirlyGymRat

I havent and did buy the suspension cuffs. 

I should try it!

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## Littlearnie

Blergh I give up with it. You can’t do multiple hanging exercises ina row all to failure without rest. It just doesn’t compute!

Plus who trains that much obliques! :/

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## tarmyg

I started this routine 2-weeks ago. Running it once per week. I take 2-min rest in-between every excersise. Don't really care if that is exactly what I am supposed to do because it seems to hit spots I did not train before which is great.

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## GirlyGymRat

> I started this routine 2-weeks ago. Running it once per week. I take 2-min rest in-between every excersise. Don't really care if that is exactly what I am supposed to do because it seems to hit spots I did not train before which is great.


Good feedback!

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## Littlearnie

Yeah doing it the rest is the only plausible way.
I just don’t like how much your hitting your obliques. I was always told don’t wanna mess the shape with big waist..

But I have taken from it for sure. I’d never heard of vaccumes before! After ten years training I don’t know how :s
And I’m doing my leg raises better thanks to the advice of concentrating on just useing the abs. I struggle to do half the reps I used to.

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## wavefunction

I'm starting this routine, still learning all the moves. Just last week I thought I was cool because I've reached the maximum weight on the crunch machine, now I realize I've been doing it all wrong lol

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## wavefunction

I see my abdominal muscles now, for the first time ever. Not all of them yet, still a work in progress  :Smilie: 

3 weeks ago:


Yesterday:

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## KittyO1

Looking great!

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## wavefunction

> Looking great!


Thank you. Pretty sure I can feel on touch the bottom 2 abdominal muscles(whatever they're called), gonna starve myself until they show.

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## wavefunction



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## wavefunction



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## wavefunction

Sorry don’t know how to delete posts here.

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## wavefunction

Finally figured out how to post pics not tilted 90 degrees on iOS . Shit was driving me mad. Tapatalk.

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## wavefunction

This from 2 weeks ago:







Shits working, Im sure tren helps hehe

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## C27H40O3

Shit! You lost half your face fat. That is what I need to do. 

What works for that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## wavefunction

I used testosterone , trenbolone , mastreron, clenbuterol and high caloric deficit.

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## wavefunction

The fat face thing might have been temporal due to a gram of test weekly plus seven meals daily diet I did for a bit. Heres a photo of me two months prior to the first pic here:

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## Cornish

Tried this zhit right now. Killed my old ass. Gonna give it the 2 months and see how it goes.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk

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## GirlyGymRat

> Tried this zhit right now. Killed my old ass. Gonna give it the 2 months and see how it goes.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk


Take pics. I bought needed equipment and stopped. Lol.

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## Cornish

> Take pics. I bought needed equipment and stopped. Lol.


K. Took b4 pic rn. Will do progress pic in 1 month, then 2 months. Will post all in 2 months. I had a lot of trouble doing the hanging exercises properly.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk

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## Cornish

Did this again rn. Focused on form for each exercise. Reps were limited. My cardio is shit. Didn't feel much pain after I did this the first time. We'll see if I feel it tomorrow.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk

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## Cornish

This is gonna take me longer than 2 months to "see" results. I'm in the middle of a bulk so I'm definitely getting stronger with the exercises i.e. more reps each time. But the fat from the bulk makes "seeing" the abs next to impossible. I do indeed like the routine.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk

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## GirlyGymRat

> This is gonna take me longer than 2 months to "see" results. I'm in the middle of a bulk so I'm definitely getting stronger with the exercises i.e. more reps each time. But the fat from the bulk makes "seeing" the abs next to impossible. I do indeed like the routine.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk


Once you cut they will pop!!

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## Cornish

Still working on this. Have upped to 2x/week. It's gonna be awhile. There has been no change aesthetically. But reps continue to increase and form continues to improve. Will keep at it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk

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## Cornish

Gave this up. It is for people with advanced abdominal strength. That ain't me...yet

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## popeyewhite

"Put down the weights. Do NOT use weights when working ab muscles. Ab muscles are small- and weights won't help you get a 6 pack. Forget doing crunches with plates and using the ab machine at the gym. Usually you will end up with a "girdle" appearance meaning you have little definition and just a hard puffy stomach. You'll end up looking bloated more than anything; which will make it even harder to get the look you want."

This isn't really correct. If you want fat individual bricks of a six pack subject the abs to hypertrophy training the same as any other muscle. Why would they be different? Crunches with plates are fine, use it as a pre exhaust and superset with weighted leg raises.

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