# MEMBERS EXPERIENCES > MEMBER'S CYCLE RESULTS >  8 weeks Test Prop & Tren Ace

## < <Samson> >

It's about that time, I will be starting my cycle tomorrow. 

Running:

GenSys - Test Prop @ .8ml EOD (80mg) - first 2 weeks, then 100mg EOD for the last 6
GenSys - Tren Ace @ .8ml EOD (80mg) - first 2 weeks, then 100mg EOD for the last 6

B12 @ 1ml mixed with both oils <Possibly 2ml< EOD

Caber @ .25mg Every 3rd day(possibly 4th) 

Still considering staying on the EC stack. But, I don't know if it will be necessary.

HCG blast for the last 4 weeks straight into PCT @ 250iu Every 3rd day(possibly EOD)

Very Aggressive PCT: 

Clomid 100mg/75mg/50mg/50mg/50mg
Nolvadex 40mg/20mg/20mg/20mg/20mg

I have been "on" for nearly six months, running a TRT type dosage for the last four months while cutting.

Weighing in right now @ 197 flat. Bf% IMO is right around 13%. Waist is slightly over 33"(my 34 pants are loose, but stay on), bi's are almost 17.5" on a full pump, slightly over 17" cold. . . . I am the biggest and leanest I have ever been, period. It took over a year to get here and maybe I didn't go about it the best way possible, but it worked pretty well. Can't complain so far, everything has been real stable so far.


Diet break down is pretty simple. 

2,700 cal +
250g's of protein + +(the more the better, closer to 300)
250g's of carbs (possibly a little less)
Null fat g's (the less the better)

Diet consists of: chicken, fish, protein powder, egg whites, greens, whole wheat bread, brown rice, Greek yogurt, oats and some fruit. I drink on extremely rare occasion(maybe once a month if that), hardly slip up and eat garbage.


Lifts are still very respectable, strength has not dropped much since my last real cycle. - Maybe about 10% at most.


I'll be keeping this updated whenever there is a notable difference in anything. Still really have no idea what to expect from this cycle. I'd love to end up at about 205 pounds even leaner than I am now.

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## MickeyKnox

Looks like youre all set. Good luck Samson.

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## Buster Brown

Should be a great cycle. Interseted to see how you make out with your pct. Did you run hcg and an AI during your cruise/trt dose? Good luck.

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## ironbeck

Dude I just want to say you have totally transformed yourself and your looking good, oh and the cycle looks solid, should be fun.....good luck!

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## kronik420

sub'd

why the different dosage for the 1st 2 weeks?

i wanna try tren soon too..

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## ironbeck

> sub'd
> 
> why the different dosage for the 1st 2 weeks?
> 
> i wanna try tren soon too..


I believe this is sammys first go a round with tren and he IMO is ramping to introduce his body to this wonderful compound, some ppl freak on tren. If your an ass hole it makes you a bigger ass hole lol
Just an example sam , not saying your an A-hole lol

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## kronik420

> I believe this is sammys first go a round with tren and he IMO is ramping to introduce his body to this wonderful compound, some ppl freak on tren. If your an ass hole it makes you a bigger ass hole lol
> Just an example sam , not saying your an A-hole lol


lol ok

im planning on basically the same cycle

test p and tren a 100mg EOD (of each) for 8 weeks

will be stalking this thread  :Smilie:

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## < <Samson> >

Shot 100mg of Tren Ace and 100mg of prop. Just got freaked a little since the oil looked way different than I expected. 

Color or not, I seem to be having a strange deep dry cough. Went straight through a vein on one delt. Most blood I seen run out post a shot yet. But, barely any oil went in, it was mostly b12.

I wanted to hit a lower dosage due to just what IB mentioned. I am an ass hole, and adding stuff to make that worse isn't something I just wanted to dive right into. 


I ran HCG for my original blast and the following month of the TRT dosage. Ran b12 the whole time and no Ai since the original test blast.

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## < <Samson> >

Shot #3 today. . . All good so far, seem to be sweating more during workouts and just feel overall warmer.

Weight is right at 199 as of this morning. All measurements are back to normal and the water seems to have mostly dropped. Waist is right under 34" - Arms are right over 17"

Trying my best to keep the solid calorie count but with good numbers, hard to eat lots of lean food all day.

Taking Caber every 3 days and now Armidex EOD at .25


Still don't know what to expect from this shit. No PIP at all of the GenSys juice though, which is kinda nice.

Dropped my test down to 50mg EOD and Tren is at 80mg. I'll most likely bump them up within a week or 2.


Nothing else special, just the last workout seemed much more intense but it could be from my new custom made pre workout drink(scoop of c4 & scoop and half of Jack3d). 

Stopping the EC stack as of today, I might just take it randomly for energy but not on a every day basis any more.

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## Antonious

Good luck, will be checking on progress. Will have tren cycle myself soon

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## Buster Brown

Nice pre-workout cocktail, doing something similar.

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## kaiblade

is this the first cycle with tren ? how is the gains compared to running just test in 6 months? thought of trying out tren if its worth all the hype.

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## < <Samson> >

I had no true gains while running 4+ months of TRT dosed test. I lost most of my fat during this time and could go real harsh on my cal deficit without any muscle loss or strength loss(maybe a little strength loss).

As far as the gains so far off the Tren & Prop. It's too early to tell. I feel mad pumped 70% of the day. Vascularity is highest I ever seen on myself. 

But, true LBM gain is still too early to determine. I'm weighing in @ right under 202 right now. Seem to be just as lean.

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## < <Samson> >

A pretty sad today, I found a growth in my right moob.

It is a growth for sure, what? I don't know until I see the MD in a week or so.


Dealing with it the best way I know how, sucks ass. . . . But, this is the shit we are dealing with here. 

Yes, I am on a Ai and a low dose of test. I ran more test before without a Ai without issues and just got a little irresponsible I guess. This shit seems to just creep up on guys out of nowhere. Been reading on it a bit today, pretty shitty. 

It seems when I retained water for a short time, my estrogen most likely spiked(maybe) and caused this.


I can't say exactly what it is myself. It is not behind the nipple and it does not hurt. Feels like a nodule in the marked circle and running where the line is. Never felt it before and found it on my daily moob inspection.

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## largerthannormal

Damn dude your a lot more cut than your old pics, I'll be running similar cycle in a few weeks, keep us updated!! I'll be following

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## < <Samson> >

> Damn dude your a lot more cut than your old pics


Thanks yo


But, the gyno shit's a bitch. I am definitely trying not to fvck with it myself until I get to my M.D.

Weight is right under 201. . . Strength is great, but I sure do get winded like no other and sweat like crazy.

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## FONZY007

> Thanks yo
> 
> But, the gyno shit's a bitch. I am definitely trying not to fvck with it myself until I get to my M.D.
> 
> Weight is right under 201. . . Strength is great, but I sure do get winded like no other and sweat like crazy.


Why are u assuming its gyno?

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## < <Samson> >

> Why are u assuming its gyno?


Well, bro I can't say it is gyno for sure. It feels more like a few swollen lymph nodes right of my nipple.

But, what I do know is that it is new. It was not there a few days ago. . . . .

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## FONZY007

> Well, bro I can't say it is gyno for sure. It feels more like a few swollen lymph nodes right of my nipple.
> 
> But, what I do know is that it is new. It was not there a few days ago. . . . .


Hope it's nothing to worry about. 

Keep us informed

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## Buster Brown

My brother had gyno creep up on him for the first time when we ran our last tes/tren cycle. We both used an AI/HCG , kept clean diets and ran the Tes @ 300 mgs and the Tren @ 400 mgs. He started to get the lump around week 8 and did an abbreviated 2 week Letro run. He felt like garbage after a week on letro (still cotinued the cycle) but the lump went away. At that point he was at week 10 and decided to cut the cycle at 10 weeks. Since then he hasn't any more problems despite never running the Letro for the full protocol. His was offset like yours and hard about the size of a nickel. Not saying he went about handling it the right way by not following the full Letro protocol, just sharing the experience.

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## < <Samson> >

Thought about jumping on letro and taking that route.

But, I need to have a M.D. tell me what it is first. It does not seem like a one piece mass, but more like enlarged glands.


As of right now, I started taking Tamoxifen at 20mg per day broken into two 10mg doses. Don't really know what else to say except that it sucks.

But, juice effects damn near every part of our bodies. You don't read about swollen lymph nodes from steroid use . Or even anything on how it "may" cause an enlarged prostate. 

All real shit, that people just take for granted. From damn near the first time you stick yourself with that steel pin you open your body to a whole new world of inner damage. 


Sure would be nice to do whatever without any negative consequences. . . . But, that's just not how life works.

Pic as of this A.M. No juicy huge bitch tits yet, or any other major notable differences.

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## Gaspaco

Doesn't look like gyno to me, I had some water retention behind my nipple during cycle.

But don't let it ruin your cycle buddy, don't get frustrated!

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## < <Samson> >

Back from the doc, no gyno. First words out of his mouth were; You run a steroid cycle? My answer; Of course not, just a PH run of the pills that are available OTC at Sam's Club. 

He said everything looked fine, I just may be experiencing a bit of a hormone fluctuation which is causing some breast tissue enlargement. But, no growth or anything else negative. 

Sweet, made my fvcking day. . . . 


Also the train seems to be in full motion. Nothing insane or anything, but my waist is right under 33.5" bi's are right over 17.25" and I'm weighing in right over 198 pounds. Not bad. . . .specially since I am only on day 12. Levels should be just peaking. 

This makes me feel much better about my next bulk cycle(deca , Tren and test).

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## ChipChelios

Hey Samson, nice to see its not Gyno, must of been a huge weight off your shoulders hehe..

I'm curious why you picked test tren for your current cycle. Just out of curiosity, cause you mentioned you're gonna do test tren deca after this one.

I'm just curious is all  :Smilie:  I'm trying to figure ou what I'm gonna do next

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## < <Samson> >

For sure, it's just nice to know that I am not sprouting bitch tits. 

I wanted to use Tren mainly because of what everyone said. It's the strongest steroid and it seemed very cost effective compared to some of the others. 

Seems like a good muscle building compound but with some harsher sides. But, I think the sides aren't as bad at lower doses.

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## Buster Brown

That's great news!!!! Sounds like you are firing on all cylinders, now go and CRUSH IT!

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## ChipChelios

> For sure, it's just nice to know that I am not sprouting bitch tits.
> 
> I wanted to use Tren mainly because of what everyone said. It's the strongest steroid and it seemed very cost effective compared to some of the others.
> 
> Seems like a good muscle building compound but with some harsher sides. But, I think the sides aren't as bad at lower doses.


Pretty much what I was thinking... Tbh deca scares me more than tren ... Deca dick sounds rough lol...

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## Rosscoboy

> For sure, it's just nice to know that I am not sprouting bitch tits. 
> 
> I wanted to use Tren mainly because of what everyone said. It's the strongest steroid and it seemed very cost effective compared to some of the others. 
> 
> Seems like a good muscle building compound but with some harsher sides. But, I think the sides aren't as bad at lower doses.


Hey Samson, good to hear everythin went well for you bro.

How is your cycle progressing??, as were both doing pretty much the same cycle.

Im on my third week now and havent noticed really any gains mass or in the gym. My diet is on point and pretty much eat the same off cycle as on. My last cycle was dbol ,sust and deca and I gained at least 18lbs off of this cycle and was lifting more in the gym.

Ive heard some guys say gaining 20lbs the first three weeks on tren is the norm but I think thats bullshit myself.

Are you experiencing the same as me?? Im getting the sides (sweating, struggling to sleep) but not getting any of the good stuff, Hopefully week four will bring some better results

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## < <Samson> >

Same exact shit here. . . Every once in a while(like once a day for about an hour), I get mad pumps. It's a little harder to sleep, just a tiny bit. I am showing a bit more vascularity, but that's it. 

Strength is the same, size is nice and stable. But, no "real" gains. . . I swear I can the same results as of now with just prop. But, the random once daily pumps are nice. 

But, seriously nothing too impressive - yet. But, like I mentioned before. What do you expect in 2 weeks? If you are gaining an amazing one pound of LBM per week you still would not notice physical differences for at least a month. One pound of LBM seems very hard to get per week, if not impossible. And how would you measure one pound? It would equal about one tenth of an inch on my arms. That's just not measurable. . . This of course is going by LBM only. 

Like when I hit the dbal, I just inflated within a week. But, it's not LBM weight or size. It's just water retention within the muscle that drops later on. 

I know we wanna just go Incredible Hulk and just start packing on muscle after every shot. But, nothing does that. Well, maybe if you go crazy and pump a gram a week. 

I'm not too worried about using deca . Seems like a good bulking compound.

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## < <Samson> >

Ummm, okay. . . I feel pretty jacked now. Nothing way insane, but I can tell a difference. I never had this much vascularity ever.

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## auswest

Looking good Samson,you got me thinking about my coming cycle in 6 weeks of prop/tren .. Can't wait. Just about to start my prime.

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## bp2000

Nice work you look lke you got your diet on the right track looking lean! When you were cruising you notice a difference on TRT dose of test any feeling of well being or is it to low to tell a difference from natty?

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## < <Samson> >

Seems to be working. . . 

According to my POS digital caliper I am down from 14.5% to 12.5% < I say more like from 16.5% to 14.5%

But, this is while gaining weight.Went from 197 to barely over 200.

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## < <Samson> >

> Nice work you look lke you got your diet on the right track looking lean! When you were cruising you notice a difference on TRT dose of test any feeling of well being or is it to low to tell a difference from natty?


Yeah, the diet is way dialed in.


Yes, the cruise was pretty nice. I hit my diet hard some days and only took in 1,200 calories and still maintained my strength. I wanted to go for more of a recomp. But, just got tired of being too jiggly. 


Now, I am somewhat considering staying on. But, I think I will still PCT out. My natural numbers were great before this long ass run. But, being on a TRT type dosage is nice. Diet and workouts are much more forgiving. It's like being on a long very mild cycle. But, when you drop into your TRT dosage from a cycle, you still feel the test drop. I lost my libido almost like on PCT.

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## Buster Brown

Glad to see it's kicking in for ya. How are your lifts?

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## < <Samson> >

> How are your lifts?


Nothing special, just feel more powerful. If I had to put a number on it, maybe up 5%+ all around.

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## Buster Brown

I just noticed (Dah!) that you are keeping your calories (2700) pretty much at maintenance so I would imagine you are still going for the recomp. Have you been carb cycling at all or are you keeping your carbs the same everyday? Looking to do a very similar diet and cycle as well this summer.

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## < <Samson> >

> I just noticed (Dah!) that you are keeping your calories (2700) pretty much at maintenance so I would imagine you are still going for the recomp. Have you been carb cycling at all or are you keeping your carbs the same everyday? Looking to do a very similar diet and cycle as well this summer.


Actually my cals are even lower. I am running at 22-2500 every day. No carb cycling, my daily #'s are 22-25 cals fat under 50 carbs are right @ 200 and protein is 250+

I am treating this more of a cut/recomp and it seems to be working. I am pushing my cals very close to 25 every day now. But, on off days I sometimes drop to 22. 

I still seem to be gaining LBM and losing fat though. Just back in from the gym after an insane tri and ab workout. My bi's are very close to 17.75" which is damn amazing. Weighing in right under 200 as of this morning. 


Good stuff, but still no in hulk status by any means. Now, I am on the full 1ml of prop and Tren eod along with a ml of b12 eod. 

Appetite is nuts, It's hard to stop myself from eating all day. 

I am currently trying to kick my diet just a bit higher. I'd love to see 205 by the end of cycle. 


Still really looking forward to my next bulk, since I have some dank juice on hand. After that run I'm hoping to level off over 215 and right around 13% bf. 


Diet diet diet < we are what we eat. It seems to be even worse on the sauce. With more shit foods I grow very quickly. But, not a good kind of growing.

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## OnTheSauce

Man im jealous of your appetite! I never want to eat on Tren ! Looking good man. Def bigger and the vascularity is coming in.

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## < <Samson> >

I don't mind the appetite. But, it makes it hard to stick to clean foods I'm large amounts. 

Feel like I can just eat all day. < and I don't think that'd be a good idea.

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## Buster Brown

I hear ya about the apetite. I couldn't eat enough food on tren and will struggle a bit with the recomp this summer when staying around tdee. I think bulks are tough because you never know exactly what the end result will be once you deflate. I think smaller gains and more fat loss might be a more manageable way to cycle (for me anyway). Good log so far.

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## < <Samson> >

Thx man,

Today's bi workout was pretty good. I am really starting to see a lbm/size gain. It's just so much slower compared to a bulk. On a bulk I know no matter what I'll do, I will just blow up a bit.

But, for sure - It sucks not knowing what you will really wind up being.

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## < <Samson> >

Coming in this morning at right under 201. Still feel like I am getting leaner and more defined. 

Almost a month into cycle now.

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## Buster Brown

Abs look good, must be doing something right!

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## < <Samson> >

> Abs look good, must be doing something right!


I been destroying the abs ever since I started this cycle. I say might as well do it now, it's as good of time as any. 

No more random rounds on the fat people's lazy ab machine. 

I'm doing a lot of lats along with a ton of crunches on the decline bench. Along with rope pull downs. Also throw in 5 minutes of the plank here and there.

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## < <Samson> >

Insomnia set in, it is hard to sleep. I feel very hot, but not to the point of having sweats. Yet, my AC is cranked down low and I don't sleep with covers on. 

I just seem hotter and more alert for some reason. 


Not being able to sleep very well kinda sucks.


Weighing in @ right under 202. I'm gaining weight, but not fat apparently. But, it seems to be really spreading all over. Seems like it is coming in as muscle density, muscles are feeling harder all over. It's like the fat from within the muscle is going away and is being replaced with muscle tissue.

Since I am keeping the same size, but the size is much more defined.

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## < <Samson> >

Weighing in right @ 205 as of this A.M.


Kinda higher then I expected. Waist is right at 34" bi's are right under 17.75" Cold

My cals have been up for over a week, hitting 3k every day. 

I'm thinking of running a strong cal deficit in the last 2-3 weeks of this cycle. Just kinda wanna get a bit more of a shredded look. 


I approximate my Bf% to be right @ 14% and 12% I think will look clean. So, a 5 pound Bf loss.

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## Buster Brown

The cal deficit might be a good idea. That way you wont have to deal with losing flub during Pct. I am curious to see how you do after Pct since I am debating a cruise myself. Hope you keep your log up through Pct. Sounds like a solid cycle so far.

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## < <Samson> >

> The cal deficit might be a good idea. That way you wont have to deal with losing flub during Pct. I am curious to see how you do after Pct since I am debating a cruise myself. Hope you keep your log up through Pct. Sounds like a solid cycle so far.


Fvck man, I'm not gonna BS. I have been considering staying on, TRT dosage in between of course. 

But,I have a ton of PCT meds and my natural numbers were pretty high. So, I will try to PCT. I'm being realistic, staying on might be an option. But, I prefer not to. Not yet at least. But, I don't want to lose everything I worked for either. I'm going to monitor this as closely as possible(strength loss, size loss, any other neg sides). 


We'll see, it's all self medication. But, it's hard to judge when to throttle yourself back. 


TRT really does not seem that rough. I did it for 6+ months without problems. 


No way to tell yet, but a aggressive PCT is my first option.

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## ChipChelios

Is this your second cycle ?

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## < <Samson> >

> Is this your second cycle ?


No, 3rd theoretically. . . . I just never fully came off my 2nd cycle.

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## Buster Brown

Well bro, that is being honest and I can't say that I blame you and comend you. I am probably twice your age (I'm 43) and can say that you will re-invent yourself over and over. You will probably always lift but your priorities and goals will change. I am not trying to give you a Dad speech but at this point, it is well worth paying the price during Pct in the short term then paying the price in the long run and not having the chance to ever have kids. It's hard to look back and remember what size/shape we were in when we started out and be happy with what we end up with.
I vote PCT.

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## Body brick

Im on same cycle but dont know if gear is gtg. Anyone can tell me if its good or not

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## Body brick

Im on same cycle but dont know if gear is gtg. Anyone can tell me if its good or not

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## Back In Black

You've already been advised to start your own thread and not jump into other people's. you also need to edit out the website on your pics, thank you.

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## Body brick

Can I delete post

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## Back In Black

Just edit it and delete the content thanks

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## < <Samson> >

> Well bro, that is being honest and I can't say that I blame you and comend you. I am probably twice your age (I'm 43) and can say that you will re-invent yourself over and over. You will probably always lift but your priorities and goals will change. I am not trying to give you a Dad speech but at this point, it is well worth paying the price during Pct in the short term then paying the price in the long run and not having the chance to ever have kids. It's hard to look back and remember what size/shape we were in when we started out and be happy with what we end up with.
> I vote PCT.



You have a decade on me. I have one son, kinda want another. But, I see guys on sauce still get their girls pregnant. But, of course it will not aid the situation. 

I will try to PCT no matter what. I have a ton of pharma PCT meds on hand, I got myself ready for a pretty harsh landing. 

We'll see, it's just too soon to say. My first and only PCT went pretty well and I bounced back very well.

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## < <Samson> >

Just a pic from this morning. . .

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## ineedauser

Holy iPhones batman!


Should put the before picture with it

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## < <Samson> >

Yeah, the iPhones make all of this possible. 


Cranking up the Tren . Going to 75mg QD along with .6-.7ml of prop and still pushing a ml of b12 EOD. 

Started this already, noticeable changes yet. But, strength is up for sure. Pushed 110 pound dumbbells on the flat bench yesterday 5x. 

Appetite seemed very off yesterday. I was hungry in the morning, ate - Then the rest of the day I had to force myself to eat. 


Dosages don't seem to high to me from what I seen so far.

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## < <Samson> >

Jason Statham the 2nd, no?



Odd resemblance


But, I still need to be bigger.

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## Hulking2016

Wow looks like its going well hope to see more post and pictures. You should do a before and after picture

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## Hulking2016

> Yeah, the iPhones make all of this possible.
> 
> 
> 
> Started this already, noticeable changes yet. But, strength is up for sure. Pushed 110 pound dumbbells on the flat bench yesterday 5x.


Just wondering what was you 5 rep max with dumbbells on the flat bench before you started your cycle and how much longer will you be on them?

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## < <Samson> >

> Just wondering what was you 5 rep max with dumbbells on the flat bench before you started your cycle and how much longer will you be on them?


Good question, most I remember pushing out was 105x3. That was either right in the beginning of this cycle or right before it, but I was still on a low dose of test. 

Be on what?

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## Hulking2016

> Good question, most I remember pushing out was 105x3. That was either right in the beginning of this cycle or right before it, but I was still on a low dose of test.
> 
> Be on what?


Juice lol and how long have you bin lifting?
Forgot to ask last time but from what you know and have seen do you think Tren is better for cutting then bulking

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## Buster Brown

> Juice lol and how long have you bin lifting?
> Forgot to ask last time but from what you know and have seen do you think Tren is better for cutting then bulking


Tren can be used effectively for either, your diet will truly dictate the results. Tren is no joke and should be treated with the utmost respect. You can open Pandoras box very easily with tren if you aren't ready for it.

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## < <Samson> >

Been lifting on and of for almost a decade. 80%+ for almost a year and a half. 

On my new dosage my pumps are almost unbearable at times. Yet, I see no new immediate LBM growth. I seem to be plateauing in my weight pretty hard now. 

As far as Tren goes. I'd use it in any cycle, bulk or cut. I'm using it in my next deca bulk cycle. 

As a cuter it seems to harden me up more than anything else. I just seem more defined, yet the same size & weight. 


As mentioned above, diet is the key in what outcome you will see from your sauce. 

Getting juiced is nothing like I once thought. Muscle on most people at least does not just spontaneously start to grow just because you are on juice. It takes a lot of time, dedication and a ton of sauce if you want that huge cut up physique. 


Now I am starting to see what the difference is between the huge swoled up guys to the moderate juice user.


Personal best today. . . Hit one 385 Pound dead lift. Did a 375, them said fvck it. Might as well try a little harder and hit the 385. 


Goal is to hit 405 by the end of cycle. Seems fairly reasonable. 

Strength is up for sure, doing pull ups in between most of my sets. No BS, before I started this cycle I could barely do 1-2 good pull ups. 


Nothing else to report, except I went pretty retarded on my diet for 3-4 days. No biggie, starting this week I will be on a extreme cal deficit and very low cardio. I got a pretty interesting 4 week cut planned. 205 seems out of range for this cycle though :Frown:  I am not gaining any solid LBM, period. Vascularity and definition - yes, but not solid LBM weight. Just they way it is I guess. 


Looking forward to my bulk in a way. But, from what I see is that I only gain quality mass while making myself fat at the same time. LBM just does not come in, not in any measurable amount at least. 

I really do hate the the idea if having to gain fat to be able to gain anything. Just shit to lose later. Yet it seems like the only way for myself. Possibly with a ton of sauce it would be different, but it's not really the way I am looking to go.

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## Hulking2016

> Been lifting on and of for almost a decade. 80%+ for almost a year and a half.
> 
> On my new dosage my pumps are almost unbearable at times. Yet, I see no new immediate LBM growth. I seem to be plateauing in my weight pretty hard now.
> 
> As far as Tren goes. I'd use it in any cycle, bulk or cut. I'm using it in my next deca bulk cycle.
> 
> As a cuter it seems to harden me up more than anything else. I just seem more defined, yet the same size & weight.
> 
> As mentioned above, diet is the key in what outcome you will see from your sauce.
> ...


 One of my friends benches 345, squats 425 deadlifts 495 and has bin working out for only about 3 to 4 years and his weight is 250 and he is 6'3 
Do you think he uses steroids because a lot of people tell me that's steroid stats for a junior in high school

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## ineedauser

Those numbers aren't crazy. This a BIG dude. If he is a shredded 250, id say yea he's all juiced. But those numbers aren't impressive for a 250lbs dude. My brother squats 530 and deadlifts 580 at 198lbs. He is 5'10". Not shredded though. Just strong as hell

To the OP... How are the sides?

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## < <Samson> >

There is no real way to know if someone is on the sauce. People don't know if I am in any way. So many huge guys claim to be all natural and you know they have to be.

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## Live for the PUMP

> Been lifting on and of for almost a decade. 80%+ for almost a year and a half. 
> 
> On my new dosage my pumps are almost unbearable at times. Yet, I see no new immediate LBM growth. I seem to be plateauing in my weight pretty hard now. 
> 
> As far as Tren goes. I'd use it in any cycle, bulk or cut. I'm using it in my next deca bulk cycle. 
> 
> As a cuter it seems to harden me up more than anything else. I just seem more defined, yet the same size & weight. 
> 
> 
> ...


I am the same way. I have to put fat on in a bulking cycle if I really want good LBM gains. I don't believe in a lean bulk. At least it doesn't work well for me. I would rather have a calorie surplus and put my body in the best possible scenerio for gaining lbm.

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## < <Samson> >

> I am the same way. I have to put fat on in a bulking cycle if I really want good LBM gains. I don't believe in a lean bulk. At least it doesn't work well for me. I would rather have a calorie surplus and put my body in the best possible scenerio for gaining lbm.


Just sucks ass that it comes with a price. The main problem I am seeing is that it is tough as shit to eat a ton of clean foods. Seriously 2-3 pounds if chicken per day is tough to take down.

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## < <Samson> >

Just back in from the gym. Strength is nothing short of amazing, straight up. A year ago I could barely push 85 pound dumbbells on a incline bench. Today I peeled off 115x5 with a spotter. Ten pounds to go and I will be lifting the heaviest dumbbell at the gym. 

Weight is crap, weighing in at 208 flat as of this morning. I am holding water from a 2-3 day bender. Still been lifting, but man - the Jäger got me solid. 

Calories are now cut for the next 4 weeks. Running my numbers @

Cal - 15-1800
Carb - 50<
Fat - as low as possible
Pro - 250>
Fibre < as much as possible

Sure would live to see a lean 205. But fvck, Tren or no Tren I still don't just pack on LBM. More cuts are great, but damn LBM sure seems to be harder and harder to obtain. And being on any sort of nutrition deficit makes it seem impossible. Even while on a bit of sauce.

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## ineedauser

What's your diet been like? Doesn't sound like you have been eating clean. 

Also, you're putting on plenty of LBM on. You didn't exactly have a low bf % when starting. But you are getting stronger, leaner at the same weight. Sounds like LBM going on to me.

How are your sides?

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## < <Samson> >

> What's your diet been like? Doesn't sound like you have been eating clean.
> 
> Also, you're putting on plenty of LBM on. You didn't exactly have a low bf % when starting. But you are getting stronger, leaner at the same weight. Sounds like LBM going on to me.
> 
> How are your sides?


Diet has been real good up until my "mental Vacation". 

No sides really, I just run hot at most times. My sleep is just a tad more restless. But, pumps are almost painful. I feel straight swollen. 

But, I'm taking down over 500mg a week now.

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## Buster Brown

Chalk it all up to experience. Your next bulk will def be alot more fine-tuned then your first one and you wont put on as much bad weight this time around. Your base is WAY better then when you first started, I'd look into carb cycling for your next bulk. Think I am heading in that direction for my bulks from now on.

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## < <Samson> >

I think my next bulk I will focus on very high cals along with med carbs and a shit ton of protein. 


I'm thinking primarily from red meat on top of my current diet.

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## Live for the PUMP

> I think my next bulk I will focus on very high cals along with med carbs and a shit ton of protein.
> 
> I'm thinking primarily from red meat on top of my current diet.


I use a lot of red meat when bulking. It's much easier to eat large quantities vs. chicken. Also it helps add up the calories quicker.

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## < <Samson> >

For sure, the cal to weight ratio in red meat is great.


Weighing in @ 203 Flat, feeling solid for sure. 

Added Mast to the remainder of the cycle which will run an extra week(ending on June 17th).

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## cj111

Hey man , I didn't read the whole thread, you're using 1ml B12 eod? So 3.5 ml a week? Its not 1000mcg per ml is it ?

Good luck with the cycle, will be doing the same one in a few months.

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## human project

> It's about that time, I will be starting my cycle tomorrow.
> 
> Running:
> 
> GenSys - Test Prop @ .8ml EOD (80mg) - first 2 weeks, then 100mg EOD for the last 6
> GenSys - Tren Ace @ .8ml EOD (80mg) - first 2 weeks, then 100mg EOD for the last 6
> 
> B12 @ 1ml mixed with both oils <Possibly 2ml< EOD
> 
> ...


I miss tren so much :Frown: ...... I literally even wore my tren shirt today..... Can't wait to have it back in my arsenal

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## < <Samson> >

I do the b12 eod, I have 2 kinds. One is 1000mcg per ml, the other is 1000mcg per 2 mL. No matter which one I shoot, I only take a ml. 

The b12 is more of a filler to clean up the oil out of the pin. I still can't tell what it really does. Maybe my hunger is better, which makes no difference since I am back to a cal deficit. 


I got this stuff so cheap, I couldn't say no. 



But, yeah - changed my protocol a bit for the remainder of the cycle. 

80mg of Tren QD 
40mg of Prop QD
60mg of Mast QD


I got the mast out of nowhere and it's not enough for a later cycle, so might as well try it out for a month.

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## Sfla80

> I do the b12 eod, I have 2 kinds. One is 1000mcg per ml, the other is 1000mcg per 2 mL. No matter which one I shoot, I only take a ml.
> 
> The b12 is more of a filler to clean up the oil out of the pin. I still can't tell what it really does. Maybe my hunger is better, which makes no difference since I am back to a cal deficit.
> 
> I got this stuff so cheap, I couldn't say no.
> 
> But, yeah - changed my protocol a bit for the remainder of the cycle.
> 
> 80mg of Tren QD
> ...


When u say b12 used as a filler to clean the oil out. How do u do this? Pin he oils, change the pin but not the barrel? Tried mixing it into one pin my first time, but it's very hard to control the pinning. Since the oil is slow then b12 pins fast.

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## < <Samson> >

I mix all of my oils and b12 in one barrel. On my next order I am moving to 5ml syringes. 

I try my best to get the b12 at the end so it pushes the oil through. I started swapping pins between the 2nd injection site too. But, most of the time I just hit a full 3cc's into one site.


Just passing time on the treadmill. Hit 365 x3 on my squats, solid and clean. Going straight for 405 by the end of cycle on squats & deads. My bench is just not there. Focusing on dumbbells instead. 

Weighing in right under 202. Waist is almost 33" flat, bi's are the same. 

My neck is fvcking 2"+ bigger than when I started over a year ago, over 18.5" now. My neck about 4 years ago was under 15".

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## Buster Brown

Abs are looking great bro!!! Weighted dips and declines helped my bench out alot. Too bad flats hurt my rotator cuffs so much.

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## < <Samson> >

> Too bad flats hurt my rotator cuffs so much.


Same exact shit here, it's like my arms are just too long to fully drop the bar to my chest. 

Dumbbells seem to be doing a good job on getting my chest strength in. Declines are cool and so are inclines. But, flat bench not so much. 


Plus my chest has been my extreme weak point. I still remember pushing out 155 x5 and that was a beating. That was only about 6 years ago. 


I sure wish I come up with a pic from when I was 25 or so. I started with damn near nothing and knew nothing about growing back then. 


I have focused on abs for months now. Not just for aesthetics, but support too. I am trying my best to incorporate every part of the body when working out. Back in the day I would just do set after set of curls and other single movement exercises. 

Got a little less than a month to go. Should be way shredded by then. My diet can't get any leaner/better on my budget. I always wanted to see single digits on my Bf%. Maybe it'll be possible this time around. 


Next year, my plan is the same. But, hopefully at least 10 pounds heavier and the same Bf%. Growing LBM is difficult as fvck.

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## Live for the PUMP

> I do the b12 eod, I have 2 kinds. One is 1000mcg per ml, the other is 1000mcg per 2 mL. No matter which one I shoot, I only take a ml. 
> 
> The b12 is more of a filler to clean up the oil out of the pin. I still can't tell what it really does. Maybe my hunger is better, which makes no difference since I am back to a cal deficit. 
> 
> 
> I got this stuff so cheap, I couldn't say no. 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lmao. Accidentally ran into some Mast eh. I am thinking about running into another compound on my current cycle too. Just see what it does for a few months. ABS look great man. I'm jealous! You have came along way. I remember following your first cycle..

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## < <Samson> >

Well, the mast was an accident. Home slice just sent me some mast prop instead of test prop. Welly well, what should I do with it? Shoot it is :Smilie:

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## < <Samson> >

Feeling pretty sauced, nothing too insane to report. 

Weighing in at a solid 203 now.

Lifts are insane. . . Ran 275 on a Smith shoulder press x5. I say pretty impressive :Smilie: 


Next set of squats and deads I am shooting for 405.

Still getting leaner I suppose, too bad I feel a mild bloat throughout the day due to my one+ gallon water intake along with a damn near all protein diet.

Close to pushing one ML of TA per day along with the Mast and Prop. 

The pumps come and go, but when they come I sure feel gnarly. I feel the mostly beastly at the gym yet. . . All of this while running a ECA stack.


BP is dead nuts perfect 110-130 & low 70's.


Nothing negative at all so far, sleep is fine the only other thing notable is my anger. I seem not to have worse temper, but when I do get mad no one should be around. This also maybe caused by the ECA and my low carb intake. Even without the sauce, the ECA makes me very irate at times.


Here's a pic after the gym. . . . My veins have veins, my neck veins on lifts just look insane and I think are starting to scare people a bit.

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## Buster Brown

Nice shoulders press!!!!!

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## Indymuscleguy

Cool vascularity!

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## < <Samson> >

I think I am pretty close to my current limit. Hit 405 on my squats x3 today. Shitty form, the last one I almost lost. But, at least I had safety bars on in our cool safe squat rack. But, still - Losing that would be just horrid. 

Weighing in at 204 this morning. Waist is right at 33.5" Bi's are almost 17 3/4" 


I am still growing even on a cal deficit. . . . Cool shit.

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## < <Samson> >

Nothing really exciting to report here so far. 

Weight is the same as last post, but the strength is still climbing. Hit 135 pounds 4x on a standing easy curl with perfect form. < Damn clean in my book.

Now I can do chin ups for days too.

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## Buster Brown

Time to start weighted Chins!

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## < <Samson> >

> Time to start weighted Chins!


Ehhhh, I like doing chin ups between my heavy sets along with push ups and other calisthenic type shit. 

On my next cycle, I think all of that will go out the door. And I will stick to a 5x5 heavy routine on everything.

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## < <Samson> >

Progress is now gone to hell. . . . I am having some serious issues not connected to my cycling. But, I am close to a point of not being able to lift. Went to the gym today for the first time in 4 days. Had a real solid workout, strength is still nothing short of amazing.

Fat seems even lower than before. . . . 

Trying my best to push at least through the end of this cycle. . . . 


Shit sure can take a turn for the worst @ least likely time. . . .  :Frown:

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## Java Man

> I miss tren so much...... I literally even wore my tren shirt today..... Can't wait to have it back in my arsenal


You have a shirt that just says "TREN" ? lol! I want one. Did you find a new job yet?

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## Java Man

> I think I am pretty close to my current limit. Hit 405 on my squats x3 today. Shitty form, the last one I almost lost. But, at least I had safety bars on in our cool safe squat rack. But, still - Losing that would be just horrid. 
> 
> Weighing in at 204 this morning. Waist is right at 33.5" Bi's are almost 17 3/4" 
> 
> 
> I am still growing even on a cal deficit. . . . Cool shit.


Nice progress samson. I've never seen anyone have 405 or > get away from them. That would be cool to have on video lol. as long as nobody gets hurt that is  :Smilie:

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## < <Samson> >

Night #3 of damn near no sleep. In the last 3 nights I possibly have slept a total of 6 hours. 

Starting to feel like a zombie. Along with this, I wake up hot as hell and my house is @ 70 degrees. 

I am stopping the Tren , haven't decided on the test & mast. 

But, this is too rough to handle alongside my other current issues. 

I would PCT out if I didn't already know how that would go.

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## Sfla80

> Night #3 of damn near no sleep. In the last 3 nights I possibly have slept a total of 6 hours. 
> 
> Starting to feel like a zombie. Along with this, I wake up hot as hell and my house is @ 70 degrees. 
> 
> I am stopping the Tren , haven't decided on the test & mast. 
> 
> But, this is too rough to handle alongside my other current issues. 
> 
> I would PCT out if I didn't already know how that would go.


Havent done much research with tren yet, except the threads asking about it. But been following your log and have been thinking about running it next time round. But seems like u didn't have bad sides until now. And im curious why it hit u so late? Especially since u are using tren ace.

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## < <Samson> >

Well I still shot the TA today. But, it seems like the sides are creeping up now. 

I don't know why so late in cycle. Maybe my body is just getting fed up under the train. 

But, my stress has to be aiding the situation. 

I dropped my dose to 50/50/50 QD, I just need to be able to sleep.

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## < <Samson> >

Had a very solid workout today. Strength is just amazing, just climbs every week. 

Pushed 90 pound dumbbells x5 with mad tricep injection pain. Hit something today in my try that seems to ache a bit under certain loads. 

Still keeping at it with a low dose of Tren , Mast & Prop. 

Now I'm right around 60 days being on this cycle total. Total days will be right under 75, seems a tad long for these compounds and QD injections are getting a bit old. 


Next cycle should be a breeze with just twice weekly shots.

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## < <Samson> >

Stopped the tren , my new gear seems to have been way stronger or it just got worse with time. I say the tren was way stronger. 

The odd heat waves and sweating alone was getting tough.

Staying on 100mg EOD of Mast and 120mg EOD of prop until I come back from vacation, then onto PCT.

End pictures as of today. . . . . Not, bad - Not bad at all. . . . . Just hoping a low dose of tren will not give me these sides far into cycle since next round I will be running only 250mg of tren enan alongside deca and test for 90 days.

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## Buster Brown

Shoulders are looking good.

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## Gaspaco

Solid!!!

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## < <Samson> >

Beast mode, just hit 405 dead lifts x2

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## mrglorious

Have you lost bodyfat while on tren ?

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## < <Samson> >

> Have you lost bodyfat while on tren ?


Yes, but not like expected. The Tren does not seem to be a fat lose supplement in any way. Yet it does raise your body temp.

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## mrglorious

> Yes, but not like expected. The Tren does not seem to be a fat lose supplement in any way. Yet it does raise your body temp.


So did u feel that the combination of test prop and tren ace helps u to lean out ? Did u considet adding winny to your cycle ?

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## < <Samson> >

> So did u feel that the combination of test prop and tren ace helps u to lean out ? Did u considet adding winny to your cycle ?


Helps lean out < not directly, yet again it seems like the diet is what makes the difference. The sauce does nothing directly to actually make you lose fat. 

I did actually consider Winny a little. But, not with the tren . I would have just done test & winny.

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## < <Samson> >

The TA is over but I'm still pumping close to a g a week of test and almost a g a week of mast. 

Peeled off 3 405 pound squats today. With 2 heavy sets of 315 x10 each. 

Suck that. . . Ha ha ha


At this point I would almost say I prefer the mast over the tren . But, the volume blows ass. The real life strength of one compound to the next is off the scale. I would say 1 to 3, if not 4. 

Still looking forward to the next big bulker. Just the idea of tren e doesn't settle so well. Even @ just 300mg a week, since it will be a 12 week cycle.

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## < <Samson> >

The cycle has officially come to an end. One shot left for tomorrow of mast and test. 

Here are the pics as of this morning, weighing in at 201 pounds. Being this lean @ 220 or so has to look so gnarly. I say a year or two and I'll be there.

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## Buster Brown

Looking solid bro, please keep us updated through PCT.

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## < <Samson> >

> Looking solid bro, please keep us updated through PCT.


Will do, starting the meds tomorrow. I am ready for a bumpy ride. . . Anything else will just be great, but I don't expect anything less than the worst.

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## Buster Brown

One thing that is a plus is that you wont need to shed any fat which is a huge plus. You will have your peaks and valleys.....I hear ya!

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## < <Samson> >

> One thing that is a plus is that you wont need to shed any fat which is a huge plus. You will have your peaks and valleys.....I hear ya!


Fvck yeah, fat gain blows ass since you need to lose that shit later. 

I'm still working on my diet for my next bulker. From what I see, keep everything the same just up it even more. 

I'm not anywhere on here much, except for the PCT section. Keeping my marbles in check is a full time job since my PCT is so extreme. 


No cycles again though for quite a bit. Well, quite a bit being about 4-5 months. 


My next run sounds damn good though, sure would love to see some more serious LBM gain.

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