# GENERAL FORUM > IN THE NEWS >  So guys, Are we going to War???

## Jdawg50

What do ya think? I think were in Iraq by no later than Feb 2003. Would love to hear some comments on this from you all. I think we should, and will go and remove old Sadam from power. IMO It's in our best interest, and the worlds best interest. We need to get rid of this guy, and continue the war on terrorism.  :Welcome:  <--- bye bye Sadam.....

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## Buddha_Red

i see how the government is gearing up for it. there is no way to avoid us attacking Iraq.

War is a terrible thing and i could never look forward to it or completely justify it. I wish there was another way 

your right though, by feb we will be in there i bet. i wonder if we will finish the job this time or do what we always sem to do. blow everything up THEN PAY TO FIX IT!!!

just goes to show you, nothing about war or government makes sense

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## palme

The Iraq parlament turned down the UN resolution today, if Saddam does so to i belive his days are numbered.

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## Jdawg50

> _Originally posted by palme_ 
> *The Iraq parlament turned down the UN resolution today, if Saddam does so to i belive his days are numbered.*


Agreed, I think Sadam is up to something with this deal.

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## MindBomb

> _Originally posted by palme_ 
> *The Iraq parlament turned down the UN resolution today.*


This was very childish acting. Like his parliament has any real power. When was the last time that parliament did anything that sadam did not want them too. Also his son comming out and saying they should accept the resolution was funny. They think we are stupid or something. The resolution, which was passed by UN, spells out what the iraq needs to do. 

They are just buying little time. As we speak, sadam is trying to purchase some sort of antidote for his biological weapons. If we go to war after he buys them, alot of our boys are going to suffer for no reason. I say his preparing for some sort of action. We should be ready to go anyday. The whole world will be better without this fuckhead, iraq included.

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## saboudian

Since Iraq turned down the resolution, and winter is just beginning, these are the 2 necessary items for the US and a coalition to attack.
I will be a bit surprised if we are not out of there by february, remember once we started the invasion in the gulf war, it was over in less then a week

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## symatech

We'll be in Iraq before President Bush has to win his reelection. Hes got a window that hes working with and his time is running out. I apologize to any hardcore bush supporters on this board but I really dont like the man. Im even from Austin tx where he was governor (and they adore him), went to school with his daughters....still hate the man. Of course Im not sayin Gore was much better....politics in the US today are a joke. Everybody votes their pocketbook and gives a shit less about issues which warrant discussion and action.


damn this was starting to turn into a tirade..sorry bros...sometimes i just get all worked up, so ill stop now  :Don't know:

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## palme

Just read that Saddam agreed to the UN resolution.

Smart move. Lets just hope it holds this time? Or do we wanna go in?

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## Totenkopf

I still say fuck him even if everything goes well with inspections
Kill that fuck. Hes done too much to alot of people he has to go no matter what

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## saboudian

I just wonder if saddam will let us inspect the palaces, u would figure that he has maybe 1 or 2 at the most, but it turns out saddam has about 22 presidential palaces. I feel sorry for all the starving ppl when saddam is livin it up.

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## Warrior

We are just playing the political game with them right now. Bush must justify his actions to ALL Americans and the world before taking him out. To do this he has set up a list of ultimatims that Saddam will inevitably break.

We will go in there and finish him or it could be disaterous in the future if he is allowed to continue his development of warfare technologies. And UN inspections are not stopping him - and this we must demonstrate to the World first. Otherwise to some, we look like a bully ourselves.

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## saboudian

A joke i heard on TV about saddam.

Its like u pull some milk out of the fridge, taste it, its sour. So u put it back in the fridge and hope it will be good tommorrow.

So true

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## MR BICEPS

Saddam needs to go! Hes another Hitler. Its just a matter of time before he kills a bunch of americans. I'm for BUSH on getting the bastard!

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## numbers505

Although our own (corporate) greed has driven the war machine to iraq, and find no satifaction in it, i see a hope for the people of iraq through this action. a peace that can only be found on the other side of war.
it seems that this thing must go forward because of all of the rhetoric of washington and that is unfortunate.

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## Jdawg50

Looks like were gonna be doing it soon! How about that speech! W was great!

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## symatech

> _Originally posted by Jdawg50_ 
> *Looks like were gonna be doing it soon! How about that speech! W was great!*


Well im not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, either way you have your opinion and i respect that.

but cmon....W is a moron. a tool of the political party. a yes man placed in the highest position. this man is going to get a lot of good people killed....fuck you George W Bush. 

ahh my .02
sorry if it was harsh

peace

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## Jdawg50

W is a moron??? DO you have a degree from Yale and Harvard?? W does. He knows what he is doing bro. Unless you think the twin towers was just a joke. I didnt and I dont wanna see that shit in a much bigger way in a few years, and taking sadam out will help reduce that threat.

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## palme

I dont see Saddam as a big threat (compered to bin ladin and his followers). But i think he should be taken out. To bad they didnt do this 10 years ago. It would have saved the lives of everyone that is going to die in this war (that i belive is comming) and the Iraq people wouldnt have had to go true 10 years of sanctions and starvation.

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## Butch

Wasn't Winston Churchill the one who wanted to go in and take care of Hilter before he got out of hand. They didn't let him and Hilter did go out of Control. Which is why we need to go in and take care of dipshit before he destroys more inoccent lives....possibly millions. 

It's kind of ironic seeing how many Anti_American motherfuckers there are (not here in AR) who say we should not hurt the people of Iraq and that war is not the answer...FUCK ALL OF YOU! Do some god damn thinking...how do we know what the people of Iraq are thinking...they only know one way of life and that is the way Saddam set. I heard in Afgan that the Americans have a good amount of control over there....even so much that the women have started to feel more comfortable again. Now think what we can do for the Iraqi's (sp?) who need our help. We can show them a life where they will not live in fear anymore. Much like the Afgan people.

We (the American people) need to stand behind our great President (even if you don't like him) and support him...the war is not for oil it's not for greed it's for the better of the American people. Don't sit there with your fuckin poster saying war is bad....shut up and let him do his job.....were not sendong out soilders over there to be killed....it's there fuckin job...ask all of the soilders if they want to go...I will gurantee you half if not all of them say they are ready and that this is what they have been training for....why else would they enroll.....

So, I am for the war and I feel that it is our duty being the most dominate force in the World to show the rest of the World that we are not fucking around anymore. Terrorism has to stop and there is only one way to stop it...but taking out the leaders behind it all. 

I would like to close by telling the American troops that God Bless them and thank you for standing for this great nation....those of us who are true Americans are standing strongly behind you and support you!  :Thumps Up: 

God Bless America!

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## symatech

> _Originally posted by Butch_ 
> *Wasn't Winston Churchill the one who wanted to go in and take care of Hilter before he got out of hand. They didn't let him and Hilter did go out of Control. Which is why we need to go in and take care of dipshit before he destroys more inoccent lives....possibly millions. 
> 
> *


this is true, but Sadam is Nothing like HITLER. First off, Churchill wanted to stop Hitler because of his potential and because he had already caused plenty of chaos. 

Sadam has neither the manpower, money, or resourses to launch a campaign across two continents. Hitler had one of the most dangerous war machines in the history of the world. His people backed him becuase they believed in him and his cause. Sadam's country is split. He can ill afford a war, and therefore it is ludicrous to even attempt to compare Hitler with Sadam.

IMHO
respectfully
symatech

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## Butch

> _Originally posted by symatech_ 
> *
> this is true, but Sadam is Nothing like HITLER. First off, Churchill wanted to stop Hitler because of his potential and because he had already caused plenty of chaos. 
> 
> Sadam has neither the manpower, money, or resourses to launch a campaign across two continents. Hitler had one of the most dangerous war machines in the history of the world. His people backed him becuase they believed in him and his cause. Sadam's country is split. He can ill afford a war, and therefore it is ludicrous to even attempt to compare Hitler with Sadam.
> 
> IMHO
> respectfully
> symatech*


Good point Symatech, and good valid reasoning.But do we really know what he has up his sleeve? I mean I know he does not have the man power and we already proved that we can kick the shit out of him....but what is he really hiding? I mean all it takes is one bomb to go off to cause mass distruction.

I don't know, this guy scares me...which is why I think it is best to take care of him and not have to worry about him.

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## symatech

> _Originally posted by Butch_ 
> *
> 
> Good point Symatech, and good valid reasoning.But do we really know what he has up his sleeve? I mean I know he does not have the man power and we already proved that we can kick the shit out of him....but what is he really hiding? I mean all it takes is one bomb to go off to cause mass distruction.
> 
> I don't know, this guy scares me...which is why I think it is best to take care of him and not have to worry about him.*


You are right Butch, we have no idea what he has up his sleeve. And I agree that he must be taken from power. But I think now is not the time to do it. The only way sadam could use his alleged weapons of mass destruction on americans is if we attacked him. Once again he has neither the technology or resources to launch an ICBM into america. The other way is if he gave/sold them to terrorists who then tried to bring them into our country. If the latter is true, then why havent they done it already? maybe they have and were unsuccesful? i dont know. But the point is, attackind Iraq will not make terrorist harboring nations fear us. If anything it will enrage them further. I think we are making a big mistake in assuming that attacking Sadam will strike fear in the hearts of terrorists. My prediction is that we will see a lot more violence as a result of this action.

peace

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## symatech

Im going to bump this becuase I think we were havin a nice healthy conversation. so far there have been some good arguments on both sides and id like to keep it goin so......

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## EXCESS

I think there will be a war regardless of what Iraq does. Bush will wait this out until the majority of Americans are fed up with what they're hearing from the media, and then its his turn to tie up the ends that his dad left loose. I don't blame him for taking this personal, but hopefully uses the advice of the experts rather than his Harvard edumucation.

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## Addicted2Mass

I have to agree that we are close to going to war! My hope is that we here in the good ole US of A have our house in order! (our mental shit)

I was in grad school for Clinical Psych during the gulf war incident and had to volunteer talking calls at a local crisis hotline center. Let me tell ya I have never received so many calls for guys my age (and ranging from 24-27) calling in crying and chronically anxious about the images they were seeing on the news! 

Yep fellas, whether we want to admit it to ourselves or not, we have a deep fear of DEATH!

So take a deep breath and find Religion if necessary, it's gonna be a rough ride! :Confused:

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## BLASTER40

After watching the news and hearing that SH has authorized his field
commanders of his military to use chemical weapons incase HE"S attacked justifies to me and it should to others that this evil, evil human
being must be stopped at all cost. I hope he does use them because that justifies our use of our nuclear option, go ahead spray an aerosol
around and possibly kill a few hundred or thousand soldiers, sad to say but it could happen, I have dear friends still in the service, and yes i am deeply concerned for their wellbeing as should all of us, but if he uses any of those horrible weapons, to hell with him, NUKE HIM!!!!
And the commanders in the field should already know from the lasttime that a bunker deep in the ground or hardened facility can't stop an IRON
RAIN for long and they will when they lose and surrender they will be brought before the world for their crimes against humanity and justifiably be punished swiftly.
 :Mad:   :Frown:

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## retired

We have been at war since 1991- the only change is that we are getting ready to finish the job once and for all. 

The real disgrace is that the US did not act in 1998 when Sadam booted the inspectors out of Iraq. Yes, the French and many of the other European pussies would have balked, the UN would have stalled- but it was the morally-correct thing to do.

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## saboudian

> _Originally posted by Jdawg50_ 
> *W is a moron??? DO you have a degree from Yale and Harvard?? W does. He knows what he is doing bro.*


U seriously got to be joking me jdawg, i think u are the only one ever to defend his intelligence, however i'll agree that he does have integrity. As for the degree part, i don't think u know what u're talkin about jdawg. The man got his degree with a 'C' average, pretty high huh? He shouldn't have been there in the first place. Don't you find it ironic that the man that is against affirmative action because it gives ppl an unfair advantage of placing in the school was in fact given an unfair advantage of being placed in school?

Do you honestly think that W could have made it without the family he has litereally been blessed with? The answer is no he couldn't have, hell i wish i had a family that could get me into yale, hell it'd be nice to get elected pres too.

I'll give a couple examples.

When running for president, W was asked who the leader of pakistan was. He didn't know.

He waved to Stevie Wonder, after which you could see a priceless expression on W's face after he realized what he did.

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## saboudian

> _Originally posted by gordero_ 
> *We have been at war since 1991- the only change is that we are getting ready to finish the job once and for all. 
> *


Actually we have been at war since world war II, at least our economy had. Since world war II, the economy has been at least a part-war time economy. The only reason that this is a lil scary is the history behind countries who try to maintain part war time or full war time economies over an extended period of time. The romans and english both tried to do this, and in the end both failed and ended up losing almost everything, of course we know what happened to the romans. I'm sure there are many other cases, but those were 2 fairly prominent empires who at the time no one thought could be brought down.

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## Jdawg50

> _Originally posted by saboudian_ 
> *
> 
> U seriously got to be joking me jdawg, i think u are the only one ever to defend his intelligence, however i'll agree that he does have integrity. As for the degree part, i don't think u know what u're talkin about jdawg. The man got his degree with a 'C' average, pretty high huh? He shouldn't have been there in the first place. Don't you find it ironic that the man that is against affirmative action because it gives ppl an unfair advantage of placing in the school was in fact given an unfair advantage of being placed in school?
> 
> Do you honestly think that W could have made it without the family he has litereally been blessed with? The answer is no he couldn't have, hell i wish i had a family that could get me into yale, hell it'd be nice to get elected pres too.
> 
> I'll give a couple examples.
> 
> ...


Wow those are two amazing examples of how stupid he is... please, get a life bro. Oh and btw your degree from MSU, is not nearly as good a degree as Harvard and Yale (Even if you have an A average vs. Mr. Bush's so-called C average) That was an MBA too btw which is not a easy degree to attain. I guess since you have a copy of Mr. Bush's transcripts, your one up. Please send me a copy of them. 
Can you name the leaders of every country in the world? I sure can't, and I bet Clinton, and Gore can't.

Bro go back to your lefty school and listen to your lefty profs, and continue to think left. When you get out in the real world you will change your views as soon as you get your first paycheck and W2. Oh, yea and as far as national security is concerned. Talk to any US military person, and they will tell you what a mess the military, CIA, FBI, NSA was when Clinton was in office. They thank god that W is working for them. Too bad, your guy lost, get over it, God bless the USA, and God bless George W. Bush. I look forward to the world saying what a great move it was ousting Sadam.

Maybe Michigan will be the first place the drop a Chem of Bio weapon. THen you'll change your ideas for sure.

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## Jdawg50

:LOL:   :LOL:   :Wink/Grin:   :Welcome:

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## palme

My god  :LOL:

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## saboudian

As far as war with Iraq is concerned, i listened to the entire colin powell address to the UN, anyone who has seen this will support war. I mean doesn't it sound fishy that saddam says he doesn't have weapons of mass destruction when the USA has tapes of his men talking about them? The fact that Colin Powell was also able to make a link with saddam supporting terrorists both in palestine and in al-qaeda is also convincing. 

I just can't beleive it when ppl don't support war, they say there is no need, or what harm can a starving country thousands of miles away do, or we're just in it for the oil.

All you need to do is look at what our inactivity has done, WTC was attacked several times, embassy bombings, military establishments bombed, US ships attacked, hell at MSU you are no longer able to study abroad in Israel because american students are being targeted. Of course its possible that saddam may not have had anything to do with some of those, but he stilll supports terrorists and thats all you need to know.

Of course the one thing that makes me mad are those french and germans. If anyone is in it for the oil, its the french. They'll join in the end and then try to get a peice of the pie like they did last time, but they aren't goin to help us now, we'll remember that next time tanks are rollin down paris avenue, not to mention how many countless times the US has helped france over the last 50 or so years. 

Well at least the US is pullin out the stops now, they are threatening all of the non-supportive countries with the almighty dollar. The US has now said all of the contracts in Iraq will go to american companies instead of the non-supporting countries which they should go to, which would cost them millions of dollars, i guess thats what u have to do to convince some ppl to go to war. I guess its just not enough to say saddam is a threat to all, responsible for countless deaths in and out of his country, geez i saw some of the torture methods he uses on some ppl, its not just you either, he will go after u and your whole family. 

There was this one guy who saddam saw as a potential threat to his power, saddam had his sister raped in front of him and then killed em both, thats just one story, do u have any idea how many more stories are going to come out after saddam is gone? But thats not enough, you have to use money to convince some which is sad.

They had this one specially designed chamber. They would put the person to be tortured in their, lock the doors. There was about 20 holes in the ceiling, a system of pipes would drop a drop of acid every minute or so from a different random hole each time. Thats just like a cruel joke.

Heh, in Bagdad, every where u go, there are huge statues, billboards, portraits, every household must have a picture of saddam on their window, every news segment must begin with saddam, saddam is portrayed as various character by actors, saddam the sports figure, saddam the kind man, my fav, saddam the sex symbol, in baghdad, the streets are all named, Saddam Drive, Saddam Road, Saddam Freeway, Saddam Street, Saddam Avenue, etc u get the idea

When asked about the roads, signs, portraits,etc.

Saddam replied

"What can i do if the people want to show their love for me"

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## "D"

Thats a great gore pic! I heard that audio tape of bin laden, Or whoever it was and they where going to rally with iraq to take down america. I think that alone links them to terrorism and the us military should turn iraq into a parkinglot!

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## saboudian

> _Originally posted by Jdawg50_ 
> *
> 
> Wow those are two amazing examples of how stupid he is... please, get a life bro. Oh and btw your degree from MSU, is not nearly as good a degree as Harvard and Yale (Even if you have an A average vs. Mr. Bush's so-called C average) That was an MBA too btw which is not a easy degree to attain. I guess since you have a copy of Mr. Bush's transcripts, your one up. Please send me a copy of them. 
> Can you name the leaders of every country in the world? I sure can't, and I bet Clinton, and Gore can't.
> 
> Bro go back to your lefty school and listen to your lefty profs, and continue to think left. When you get out in the real world you will change your views as soon as you get your first paycheck and W2. Oh, yea and as far as national security is concerned. Talk to any US military person, and they will tell you what a mess the military, CIA, FBI, NSA was when Clinton was in office. They thank god that W is working for them. Too bad, your guy lost, get over it, God bless the USA, and God bless George W. Bush. I look forward to the world saying what a great move it was ousting Sadam.
> 
> Maybe Michigan will be the first place the drop a Chem of Bio weapon. THen you'll change your ideas for sure.*


Wow, thats all i can say. You think i would take my MSU chemical engineering degree up against Bush's Yale "C" average MBA?

The answer is hell yes i would, with no doubts in my mind at all. Don't even argue with me anymore on this point, cuz you're simply wrong. 

91% of harvard students make honor roll, so that means 91% of the students of harvard were not just a lil smarter but a hell of a lot smarter then W. You hear ppl talking about how clinton was such a genious all the time, how we was this oxford road scholar and could start a conversation with anyone on any topic, no one ever questioned his intelligence. Of course my other point was, he shouldn't have been in Yale in the first place.

Do i think Clinton can name every world leader?
Do i think Gore can name every world leader?

Yes i do, if u're gonna be elected president, you'd better at least know their names.


Understand when i get my first pay check? Hell there's alot of ppl that have been havin some trouble gettin pay checks with george bush's economy, granted its not completely his fault. Of course giving tax cuts to the rich is usually not a good way to deal with it.

I don't understand if u're callin me a democrat, or supporting gore, or supporting some crazy party. But i will quote jesse ventura when he commented about the 2 party system " If you're choosing the lesser of 2 evils, its still evil"

I know those probably weren't very good examples, but you hear em every single day and thats what was off the top of my head. To me i would be extremely embarrassed if i was him and i didn't know the leader of pakistan, that really is embarrassing.

BTW, the fact that bush got a "C" average is not top secret, i've heard that several times, especially when there was all of those gore/bush comparisons


I don't know what clinton did that he made such a mess in the cia,fbi,etc , but i would guess it has something to do with him cutting the defense budget every year. I do support clinton on that note, the cold war had just ended, there was no reason for such a huge defense budget, and the primary concern of the nation was no longer defense.

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## Jdawg50

Weak bro, Weak, now your backpeddling. Nice try though. Bad examples, they sure were. Sorry I cant see how anyone can call the W an idiot, he's the president isnt he? He had do to something right? Oh, yea his father did all of that for him. Please, Oh yea, and your so called fact about his C average... Show me the money... or as I like to say F---You pay me. I wanna see that transcript you know so much about. Please. Your arguements are weak and vauge, kind of like your examples of Bush's stupidity. Your need to enrol in a poli-sci class before you leave MSU with your chem eng degree.

You need to take an econ class while your at it too, the "Tax cuts for the rich" is an even weaker arguement. Its called tax cuts for tax payers. Who do you think pays the majority of the tax burden??? The upper 10%. Clinton rode a wave that Reagan and Bush put in place, Clinton was at the right place at the right time. Tax cuts are exactly what we need, and we need to give them to the people that pay the taxes. This allows these same rich people the ability to build more factories, and hire more people, and spend more money on thier businesses. ECON bro, Milton Friedman- check out anyone of his books. it would be good for you.

You will see when you get into the real world with your chem eng degree, and 40% of your income goes to uncle sam, you'll wish Bush was making that tax cut permenant.

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## symatech

First off, just because the man has a degree from a good college doesnt make him smart. My best friends brother graduated from harvard, and he has the common sense of a lemming. He'd be on the streets if his parents didnt support him.

Second, One of the administrations largest arguments is that Iraq may be supporting -even hiding- terrorists. You guys want to know another country where terrorists live freely? how about the USA. Yeah I said it...how many of you truely believe that there are no terrorists in the USA? well i know, why dont we just declare marshall law then? get rid of all those nasty terrorists the Bush way. please

Third, does it bother anybody else, that we are so concerned with Iraq who MAY have weapons of mass destruction, North Korea HAS nuclear weapons. They have come out in public and said they will start their plants again to make the weapons grade plutonium etc. needed for the bombs. Well shit, why are we wasting time in Iraq over POTENTIAL weapons when there are REAL weapons in korea? hmmm, maybe its because the people wont support a war in korea again....oh wait, they dont support 1 in Iraq either  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

ill post more later

peace bros

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## symatech

and by the way, is that really GORE, i cant tell. and in case any of you are wondering i didnt vote for any presidentail candidate last election. lookin at my choices just made me want to move. Gore...and idiot Bush...an idiot too. 

anyways back to the pic. even if it is gore (which i am presuming it is) at least he knows what war is like. all BUSH (sr and ol' W) know about war is what their advisors tell them.. oh and what they see on TV

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## palme

Typical. Everytime some country dont want to go to war you bring up how much you have helped bla bla bla. The French helped you gain independence from the British and still you talk bad about them.
We in Europe have seen alot of wars (in our own backyard) and that is one of the reasons why alot of the people here dont want another one.
And as for North Korea i think it´s the 1 million men strong army they have that prevents the USA from going in.

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## saboudian

my bad, got posted twice.

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## saboudian

Fine you say you want proof or else i am an idiot Jdawg? Well then i will give u proof, and unless you can disclaim it, you are now the idiot.

Click on the allegation of your choice: 


-- Convicted of drunk driving. Lied repeatedly to cover up his arrest. 

-- Lying under oath. Bush & staff stop investigation of contributor's huge funeral home company. 

-- Pulled Strings to Avoid Vietnam, & Got Favorable Treatment 

-- Texas government corruption: State $$ for campaign funders & business cronies 

-- Cocaine: felony drug use, vile hypocrisy, and a hushed up arrest? 

-- His "young and irresponsible" behavior: sex, drugs and (gasp!) rock and roll? 

-- Thin skinned: censors his critics with police, lawyers, $$$ 

-- Character: Spoiled rich kid living off his family's name and reputation 

-- Made millions on insider business deals, for little work
-- -- Deal #1. Personal Profits from Failing Oil Companies
-- -- -- -- Easy Money From Odd Sources
-- -- -- -- A Surprise Deal From Bahrain
-- -- -- -- Access to the President and National Security Adviser for his foreign business partner
-- -- Deal #2. Selling Oil Stocks Just Before Iraq Invaded: lucky guess or illegal insider trading?
-- -- Deal #3. A Big Slice of a Baseball Team 
-- -- -- -- Hypocrisy: using government coercion to make his private fortune 


Here's the website where u can find more info about each allegation:

http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm


Jdawg u want proof of grades? i will give you proof of grades.
Here is an article from the American Politics Journal.

http://www.americanpolitics.com/111399MacArthur.html

But if u just want to know his average college GPA, here it is, a whopping 76.9%, well then isn't that spiffy.

Here's an excerpt from that article

"Why did BushBaby take only one political science course and no international relations course? "

Now isn't that a good question. Hey jdawg, so lets say i take a course in political science like u suggested, in fact lets say i take 2 courses, wow ,now i have more classes in political science then the president had!

The list goes on and on and on, if u want me to show u some more proof i can, or better yet u can go through the countless pages with a simple search on google.

About the tax cuts for the rich that u so much love jdawg, do u really think that giving Bill Gates a couple million extra is gonna make him open a whole lot more factories? The answer is no, rich ppl don't need this extra money, if they want to open a factory they've already got more then enough money. 


Well guess what, the fuck did pay you. :Wink/Grin: 

Oh btw palme, that was a good point, of course it was still in the french's interest to help the USA gain its independence, they weren't doing it just to be nice, but still that is a good point and i do agree with you.

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## Wiggum

I don't think all these troops would be sent over without us going to do something over there. A marine that worked for us just got called out 2 weeks ago. His unit goes behind enemy lines and fights they're way out. He basically said, he wouldn't be called unless we were going to war. Interesting to get some inside info as minor as it was. 9/11 is when this war started and it was estimated to last 10 yrs at the minimum. As far as what will happen if/when Saddam is removed from power, who the hell knows. If we move in to help build a new gov't, even more sh$t is going to fly. Whether we have to go in and bomb the crap out of them, I say no. Assassinate the f'er to get him out of power. But I have this feeling that Saddam is the least of our worries over in the middle east.

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## symatech

PALME - you have made very good points here. I agree that the US needs to basically shut the fuck up when they start bitching about "oh we saved your ass here... oh youd be screwed if it wasnt for us..." I hate that bullshit. And yes the reason we wont fight Korea is because the casualties would be way too high; as a consequence, Bush's approval ratings plummit further than they are now.

So did anybody hear about that alleged Al Quada tape from Osama? I am no expert so I cant say if its genuine or not (again though I would presume it is) but does it not seem fishy that Collin Powel was reading the transcript from the tape before the tapes recipients even knew of its existance??? littly CIA work at play :Don't know:  or maybe the Homeland Security. *sigh*

Yeah, Bush's tax cut will help the tax payers  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  It will let Kenneth Lay keep his mansions (6 or 7 of em) while his employees lives are ruined. (ENRON for all you who are in the dark..though i dont see how you could be) Do you think Bush really gives two shits about the people of Enron? nope. know why? because Hes had his hands in lots of dirty deals. 

In my opinion, this country would be better off if we stopped trying to be the worlds policeman and focused on the problems (and there are plenty) at home. Education in America is a joke, health care is a joke, our country is turning into a big fuckin joke, and the only ones laughing will be the ones who come out on top. Like ol' W. The man doesnt know adversity; anything he has ever wanted he got. born with a silver spoon stuck so far up his ass that he could take bumps of coke off the handle which stuck out his mouth.

like I said before...George W. Bush's legacy will be the needless slaughter of American soldiers and Iraqi civilians. anybody wanna bet that even if we try to get sadam we wont? 

tried to get OSAMA - FAILED
tried to get HiTLER - FAILED
tried to get CASTRO - FAILED
yeah we got a good track record to work with.


just some things to consider. Im not trying to change anybodies mind, just get my points (and there are many) accross

peace bros
take care

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## Jdawg50

Those sites are the most liberally bias sites on the net bro. Why dont you get some real credible journals. More than half the things you posted are allegations rather than truth. Sorry they were weak just like your other arguments. I can go and get stuff off of Rush's site and you would say the same thing about whomever you think would do a better job. Please, find some real credible evidence to back up those allegations rather than hearsay on the net, oh and btwTime and Newsweek are not considered credible journals. You should know this your a college boy.

As far as tax cuts are concerned. Anyone making less than 30K pays virtually no income tax. Who bares the majority of the tax burdon? The upper 10%. How do you expect to give money back to people that dont pay any taxes- Are you a socailist or Communist? Do you believe in the redistribution of wealth? If you do thats fine, just admit it. We can then go back in time and look at how many countries have failed with that mentality. Lets see the soviet union??

Who's your ideal leader?? You havent said anything about anyone you think should lead this country. Say Nader, please say Nader! Because I can dig all kinds of dirt up on him, just like you could dig up dirt on Bush, Clinton, Gore, you or me.

If you hadnt notice, George W has had one of the most difficult presidencies in history. The amount of crap he has had to deal with in the last two years, has been more than Clinton dealt with in 8 years. He has handled them masterfully. Yea, the economy is in the shitter, but thats as much W's fault as Clintons. The recession began when Clinton was leaving. Then the election, then 9/11, now Iraq and all of these threats. Can you imagine Gore in office now, wow thats a scary thought. 

-- Convicted of drunk driving. -True -->Lied repeatedly to cover up his arrest.- allegation oh yea didnt he admit this when gores team leaked it?? 

-- Lying under oath. Bush & staff stop investigation of contributor's huge funeral home company.-> allegation 

-- Pulled Strings to Avoid Vietnam, & Got Favorable Treatment-->allegations he served in the military, have you??

-- Texas government corruption: State $$ for campaign funders & business cronies-----> So me the money Weak, Weak, weak 

-- Cocaine: felony drug use, vile hypocrisy, and a hushed up arrest?--> no proof, allegation 

-- His "young and irresponsible" behavior: sex, drugs and (gasp!) rock and roll?- Please, even weaker 

-- Thin skinned: censors his critics with police, lawyers, $$$-- oooowwww nice one- Weak 

-- Character: Spoiled rich kid living off his family's name and reputation-> yeap he rode his dad's coat tails the entire way, please He's in office now and gore is not... weak Hummmmm wasnt gores dad a senator???

-- Made millions on insider business deals, for little work- I'm sure they had the inside track on this too.
-- -- Deal #1. Personal Profits from Failing Oil Companies
-- -- -- -- Easy Money From Odd Sources- Wow, really thats compelling
-- -- -- -- A Surprise Deal From Bahrain
-- -- -- -- Access to the President and National Security Adviser for his foreign business partner
-- -- Deal #2. Selling Oil Stocks Just Before Iraq Invaded: lucky guess or illegal insider trading?-> was he convited of this??
-- -- Deal #3. A Big Slice of a Baseball Team 
-- -- -- -- Hypocrisy: using government coercion to make his private fortune ---> This is sooo dumb, please


Weak bro very weak, Now give me someone you think should be in office and I'll go dig up some dirt on them.

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## saboudian

I'm pretty much in complete agreement with symatech. Just like symatech was saying, it makes no sense why america needs to be the world's police. 

Alright Jdawg, whether u agree with what happened or not thats fine, the evidence presented is very convincing. If u go through each one of the points and read them, it is impossible to disagree with all of evidence, some of the evidence is simply overwhelming. Whether they are liberally bias or not. Its definitely possible u still disagree with some of the points no matter what, but i don't feel you can disagree with every point if u read through it.

The one thing i have noticed is either u forgot or have figured you are wrong about the whole "George W is smart" deal. So at least i hope we're in agreement with that now. We know he didn't make it to the presidency based on his academics thats for sure, and if u look at his track record as a buisnessman, thats can't be the reason either.

Look i don't know why you are so insistent on making the rich richer. You really need to read the 3rd paragraph of symatech's last post. I don't think i need to say anymore.

I do think bush has had a tough presidency, but i beleive he is just a yes man surrounded by a group of very smart individuals, we know bush isn't the smart one.

To tell you the truth i never liked gore much either, but after i saw him talk to leno and letterman, and seeing him host SNL, it definitely changed my mind quite a bit about him as far as the type of person he is.

Well it looks like you want me to give you a candidate so you can bring some heat on me. I don't necessarily want someone who has a harvard eduction or is yale grad. I want someone in there who has had to work for what he has, or as symatech so eloquently put it:

"The man doesnt know adversity; anything he has ever wanted he got. born with a silver spoon stuck so far up his ass that he could take bumps of coke off the handle which stuck out his mouth."

I want to see someone like John McCain who had been a POW for 6 years, so if he would say we need to go to war, there is no doubt in my mind that we need to go to war .

I want to see a Jessie Ventura who isn't afraid to stand up to these republicans and democrats and just speak his damn mind. Not only to speak up just against republicans and democrats, but to speak up against big buisness altogether. I want someone who doesn't skimp around the truth, but someone who tells it like it is.

I don't know what you see in bush, i must be blind cuz i don't see anything.

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## retired

this is mostly ad hominem. Jimmy Carter was possibly the smartest man to ever be in the White House- and he was also a lousy President. Great man, lousy leader.

The US position on Iraq is the correct one. The Europeans do not have a viable alternative except "do nothing." They would not be so callous if it had been Paris or Berlin that had been attacked on 9/11.

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## saboudian

To tell you the truth gordero, sometimes it feels as if europe is saying to america "You deserve this"

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## Jdawg50

OK we can agree to disagree. I am still very impressed with what Bush has done since he took office, and I will vote for him again in the future.

"Yeah, Bush's tax cut will help the tax payers It will let Kenneth Lay keep his mansions (6 or 7 of em) while his employees lives are ruined. (ENRON for all you who are in the dark..though i dont see how you could be) Do you think Bush really gives two shits about the people of Enron? nope. know why? because Hes had his hands in lots of dirty deals"
For every Ken lay there are 500 corporate leaders who's companies have done wonders for this country. 

Making the rich richer, ummmm, well what do you want to be robin hood and redistribute the wealth to the poor?? - That does not work! Socailism has failed, and comunisim has failed. where's the modivation to work?? You cant give tax cuts to people that DONT PAY TAXES! SORRY ITS JUST NOT PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE. IF you make over 100K you pay over 40% in taxes- Sorry thats nuts man. Last I checked 100K for a family of 4 is not rich. 

As for the Educational system, you can thank the teachers unions and the educrates for this mess. One of the most successful ways to better education is by allowing free choice or vouchers in school. Something the educational estabishment has fought tooth and nail, and the dems refuse to put into place.

As for healthcare, you must be in a different world, because here in the US we have the best healthcare system in the world. Unless you want to move to Canada where you have to wait in line to have a surgery, and all the doctors are leaving because the cant make any money. Yea not everyone is insured, but that my friend is part of the deal. Not everyone is entitled to healthcare coverage. Sorry that is capitalism. Part of the deal. If you dont like it move to Canada, and their practically bankrupt healthcare system. 

BTW we got Hitler.
Osama- Still not sure, Were all waiting to see what happens with that.
Castro- He is so isolated he's not worth thinking about, and we never invaded cuba, so whats your point?

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## retired

> _Originally posted by Jdawg50_ 
> *As for healthcare, you must be in a different world, because here in the US we have the best healthcare system in the world. Unless you want to move to Canada where you have to wait in line to have a surgery, and all the doctors are leaving because the cant make any money. Yea not everyone is insured, but that my friend is part of the deal. Not everyone is entitled to healthcare coverage. Sorry that is capitalism. Part of the deal. If you dont like it move to Canada, and their practically bankrupt healthcare system.*


I've avoided entering into your discussion about Bush's domestic agenda, but as a proud citizen of "Canuckistan," I have to dispute your charaterization of our universal healthcare system. It's true that people have to wait for access to specialized services (such as MRI scans) that are rapidly available down South. On the other hand, NOBODY in this country is denied medical care because they did not have the good fortune to have been born into wonderful circumstances. It is a national disgrace that in the most powerful country in the world, citizens are turned away from hospitals because they cannot afford insurance.

I don't enjoy paying the highest taxes in the Western world, but it is better than turning a blind eye to unecessary suffering. And you are mistaken, because everyone IS entitled to adequate healthcare- at least according to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. We've made it happen, and so can you.

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## palme

> _Originally posted by gordero_ 
> *
> 
> I've avoided entering into your discussion about Bush's domestic agenda, but as a proud citizen of "Canuckistan," I have to dispute your charaterization of our universal healthcare system. It's true that people have to wait for access to specialized services (such as MRI scans) that are rapidly available down South. On the other hand, NOBODY in this country is denied medical care because they did not have the good fortune to have been born into wonderful circumstances. It is a national disgrace that in the most powerful country in the world, citizens are turned away from hospitals because they cannot afford insurance.
> 
> I don't enjoy paying the highest taxes in the Western world, but it is better than turning a blind eye to unecessary suffering. And you are mistaken, because everyone IS entitled to adequate healthcare- at least according to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. We've made it happen, and so can you.*


Bro i totaly agree with you. I dont understand how they can deny health care just over a pice of paper, blows my mind! And for the record, us (Swedes) pay the highest taxes in the world  :Wink: 
But im sure you pay alot aswell.

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## saboudian

These corporate scandals happen enough to be of concern, so its not something you should just brush away. This is not W's faults, its the whole 1990's fault, where any mediocre CEO could turn out good performance. However it is not right how george w handled it, with what he has allowed to happen, there is nothing to prevent enron from happening again, thats just not right.


You're wrong about socialism and communism failing, they have indeed suceeded. In the 1920's, socialists in america ran on the platform of social security, minimum wage, universal health care, among many other ideas. The republicans and democrats immediately attacked the socialists and they soon died. But what happened a few years later? Guess what, the democrats and republicans adopted several of these ideals, and voila! socialist ideas become enacted, i guess they weren't so crazy after all.

When i'm talking about rich, i'm not talking about 100k per year. In fact i beleive the last republican tax cut proposal, would have everyone making less then 100k receive nothing, if u were just above 100k, something else would kick in but you might see a couple dollars.

I beleive to be considered rich you have to make above $325,000 per year, so we're not talking about any of us i would assume. Thats when you would get some tax breaks.

You're trying to stimulate the economy, thats the whole point of it. I simply don't beleive that giving the top 1% of the nation's wealth is going to stimulate the economy. When u're looking at the top 1%, we're looking at all millionaires. Tell me something, do you think by giving tax breaks to millionaires you will be stimulating the economy?

Of course there are several other ways of stimulating the economy besides going through the tax cut route. 

I think churchill said "Democracy is the worst form of goverment except for all the others"

So its unfortunate what has happened with the education system, and as for health care, even though it is the best in the world, we pay the price dearly for it.

This one girl i knew was in a car accident, no injury to her at all. They still had her get in an ambulance which cost something like $600. Then once they got her to the hospital they charged her $20 for an advil. Insurance is what drives these prices up and you are forced to get insurance or else you're really fucked.

As for education, it is a joke in america. Having not been in high school not too long ago, I would definitely say over half of my graduating class are complete morons, i mean you wouldn't beleive how dumb some of these ppl are. I can't beleive they managed to go through all that school and learn so little. I understand what you're saying though Jdawg, and sometimes unions go too far, and they have now. I really do pray for the future of america that something will be done eventually, the education system must be improved.

As for Bush, it has been tough, but i would say his performace has been only mediocre, i'm not convinced that he has done much to improve America.

Hitler-I don't beleive we really know what actually happened to him.
Osama- well lets bomb iraq some more, and maybe everyone will forget about him. BTW, i heard on CNN, that George W has not said the word osama in a speech since last june.
Castro- I think he has a crush on barbara walters. Anyways, ever hear of the Bay of Pigs? I also beleive we attempted 3 assasinations.

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## saboudian

Hey palme i gotta a couple questions for ya.

How much do Swedes actually pay? I've heard some pretty insane #'s but i'm not sure what it is.

A while back in last semester, my teacher said something like, in a certain country(thought it might be sweden), if you're above 18 and u're making less then like 5 grand, they automatically give you that much money until u're makin 5 grand a year. Just wonderin if you've ever heard of this, i know he said it was a european country, but i can't remember which one.

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## symatech

Bros let me rephrase what I said....no let me say it again but with feeling.

HILTER - FAILED - WE DID NOT GET HITLER, HITLER GOT HIMSELF
OSAMA - FAILED - JUST PUT OUT ANOTHER VIDEO
CASTRO -FAILED - DID WE GET HIM?? NO. YES I HAVE HEARD OF THE BAY OF PIGS, AND OUR NUMEROUS ASSASINATION ATTEMPTS!!! FOR HEAVENS SAKE THEY ALL FRIGGIN FAILED BECAUSE THE MAN IS STILL ALIVE!

sorry for the caps but some of you were reinforcing my points, in a way in which you thought you were discrediting them. NO FLAMES TO ANYONE!!!

Jdawg - no flame bro - but seriously you must be trippin. The best healthcare system in the world? holy shit. Have you been in an american hospital? have you been in a canadian hospital? OMG there is NO COMPARISON between the two. In a canadian hospital you can walk in and get treatment. no forms, not insurance, all that bullshit is dealt with after you are treated. WHICH IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE!

TAX - if you made 30g a year, how much could you afford to pay in taxes? Its like that story they told in bible school:

"A poor woman and a rich man both gave to the church. the man gave (arbitrary number here) 500. the woman gave 1. However, the woman only had 5, and the man has thousands more. so who really gave more?"

Now Im sure i dont need to say this but i will anyway. Im not bringing religion into this, i just related that story (well an improvised version anyway) to make my point.

peace for now
symatech

ps. i enjoy this thread, i dont like to argue but this is something worth talking about since it will affect us all.

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## saboudian

good points again symatech.

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## saboudian

Well Jdawg, if u think i'm an idiot and everyone else is, especially when it comes to taxes as you so *******ly defend bush's tax proposal, you're definitely wrong now.

10 Noble Prize economists + Alan Greenspan are speaking out against Bush's tax cut, claiming " A tax cut for the rich will do nothing". 

You told me earlier i don't know economics, you want to tell these guys they don't know economics?

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## symatech

> _Originally posted by saboudian_ 
> *good points again symatech.*


thanks bro. :Welcome:  


Well, I just got finished watching the news and a few things disturbed me. I live in Austin Tx, and Clinton literally just finished giving a speech here. The basic outline of his speech was what you would expect "economy first, then foreign threats." What bothered me was when they showed the protestors outside. They all held signs which read "dont trust a draft dodger" "its clintons fault" etc. Now i have no love for Clinton, and yes he did dodge the draft. What those idiots didnt realize is that BUSH DID TOO. Thats right! Now you may be thinking "oh that symatech is stupid bush served in the military." AHEM, I may take shit for this from some of you but I will say it anyway. THE NATIONAL GUARD IS NOT THE MILITARY. Bush joined the national guard to avoid Vietnam. Now anybody here who knows anything about the military will back me up on this...he basically dodged the draft (only in a more inconspicous way).

There is one more point I would like to re-emphasize. I want to know -honestly- how many of you really and truely believe in your hearts that if we attack (and oust) Sadam that the terror threat will decrease? Take some time and think about this; in fact think like Osama, or any other terrorist for that matter. here Ill help you out:

"Those damn Americans always trying to run our lives, always having their noses in our interests. Why dont they just leave us the fuck alone. -news flash...US attacks IRAQ...- Well thats the final straw." 

Within 48 hours every sleeper cell in America is activated and bombs are going off at your childrens schools, hospitals, churches, government buildings etc. You think 9/11 was bad? -sorry for the cliche- but You aint seen nothin yet. 


god help us
because Bush sure as hell wont

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## symatech

> _Originally posted by saboudian_ 
> *Well Jdawg, if u think i'm an idiot and everyone else is, especially when it comes to taxes as you so *******ly defend bush's tax proposal, you're definitely wrong now.
> 
> 10 Noble Prize economists + Alan Greenspan are speaking out against Bush's tax cut, claiming " A tax cut for the rich will do nothing". 
> 
> You told me earlier i don't know economics, you want to tell these guys they don't know economics?*


Good point. Another point here - In clintons speech tonight he openly opposed Bush's tax cut. Now some of you are saying "no shit" but think about it. Clinton is in the tax bracket that Bush so desperately feels the need to help. IF A RICH MAN IS SAYING THAT GIVING HIM MORE MONEY IS BAD....SHOULDNT WE CONSIDER THAT??

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## Jdawg50

WEll boys
I disagree, and My guys are in office now, end of story. I think they will do the right thing. I thank god that W is there, and will be there for the next 5-6 years. Too bad for you and your liberal agendas, keep filibustering though.- sp sorry couple glasses of vino tonight. 

Sab, you will learn after a few years in the real world, mark my word. 

Keep up your blame america first attitudes its doing you well, and yea, I think you still need that econ class, both of you (Taugh by a conservative) Buy one of Milton Friedmans books it would be good for you. 

Sorry the canadian system does not touch ours, and no we are not all entitled to healthcare. Too bad, move or stay in canada if you beleive that. I bet you didnt know that you can walk into any ER and get treatment, and guess who is going broke now?? The hospitals here in the states.

Sorry I dont wanna pay more than the 40% I allready do I have shed my tax burden. And I want some of that hard earned money back. What gives you the right to take the money I make away from me. Because I have worked harder and been smarter with my money I should be penalized.... sorry thats crazy. If you wanna send more money to the fed, be my guest, I send enough allready. There is no way I would ever want to live in Canada with a 50+% TAX RATE! Thats nuts man. How about the death tax, should that one be in place, even though that money has been taxed 3-9 times over? Uh no, hello???

I know all of your socialist theories make you all feel good, but your all living in dream worlds, the real world is not like that. Sorry I am not going to work as hard for someone I dont know, than my family (Communism). 

I guess you missed the press conference that bush had with about 8 world renouned economist that said the best thing we could do is this proposed tax cut. Guess you missed that one huh?

Oh, yea, how is China doing now, and North Korea? Not too good economically compared to the USA??? Communism has failed miserably, and socialism will never prevail.

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## symatech

Who's talking about communism here? where did that come from? I never said I was a communist or wanted to live under a communist government. Where was I when bush was with his 8 economists? i was watching the 10 nobel prize winning economists and Alan Greenspan say it was a bad idea.

North Korea? China? I never said squat about their economies! All I said was that North Korea has nuclear ICBM's capable of reaching the US and BUSH IS WORRIED ABOUT IRAQ!?!?!?! Alarm bells are ringing in my head.

And Im not blamming America for everything. But most americans dont want to admit that our country isnt as 'clean shaven and right' as we'd all like to think it is. What the hell gives us the right to overthrow other countries leaders and put people we want in power (Shah in Iran) who the fuck do we think we are. AND PEOPLE WONDER WHY WE ARE HATED. 

Let me tell you something. We americans need to learn our history before preaching the future to others. Do a little digging and Im sure youll see that the US's past isnt nearly as glamarous as many people like to claim it is.

Now, having said that, Id like to point out that the US is a wonderfull place to live. Im not anti-american or anything i live here for heavens sake. There are opportunites in america which are only dreamt other places.....but that does not make us right.

peace

and by the way...im not bitter because 'my guys' arent in office. Im neither Republican or Democrat or Green Party or any of that bullshit. I dont vote straight ticket because STRAIGHT TICKET VOTING IS FOR DUMBASSES. I learn about each candidate and then vote accordingly.

ahh sorry for the rant...youve been hittin the vino, ive been hittin somethin else  :Wink: 

good night fellas...

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## palme

Hey guys (back to the topic) i just heard on the news that the UN guys found missiles that had a reach for over 150km´s. This is a clear violating of the UN resolution.
War might be really close now.

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## Jdawg50

OK, I still love all you guys. Even though your wrong. Its all good in the hood. :-). 
Peace, well not for long.
J

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## symatech

> _Originally posted by Jdawg50_ 
> *OK, I still love all you guys. Even though your wrong. Its all good in the hood. :-). 
> Peace, well not for long.
> J*


I feel the same way bro. nothin but love for my AR bros

Good luck to all our soldiers who are going to face inevitable chemical and biological attacks, (what a horrible way to die). good luck to the doctors who have to treat them. and good luck to everybody who will feel the swift vengence of terrorists around the world. like i said before...god help us, because nothing else will now

wishing for peace
symatech

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## saboudian

symatech what are u talking about? Iraq doesn't have weapons of mass destruction :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Somebody i know has a friend thats being called in as a medic for the marines and is getting stationed in qatar i beleive, or maybe it was kuwait, not sure. Anyways, they told her not to have any letters sent to that address where she will be stationed, so yet another sign.

The Times has a nice lil map of all the US forces in the region, i beleive 160,000 men. If i was saddam and i saw a shit load of boats in the gulf and troops all over the borders, i'd be a lil scared.

Of course nothin but love for ya guys, i mean what was i thinking, obviously Bush is a genious and has done wonders for this country's foreign policy and economy. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

I mean bush said he'd turn around the economy and i'll be darned if he did, look where it was when he first got in office, now look where it is, truly an amazing turn around. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## saboudian

> _Originally posted by palme_ 
> *Hey guys (back to the topic) i just heard on the news that the UN guys found missiles that had a reach for over 150km´s. This is a clear violating of the UN resolution.
> War might be really close now.*


Heh thats nothing, considering when you look at the fact that saddam has ignored every single resolution over the last 12 years or so. I still think its funny that Iraq says they don't have weapons of mass destruction, when the US has tapes of them talking about them.

There are so many violations now, its unbeleivable. I don't understand what the point of the UN is anymore, anything they pass on Iraq is just ignored by Iraq, and then they see that Iraq ignores it so they pass another one telling them not to not to ignore it, Iraq ignores it again, and keeps repeating and repeating the cycle. 

Its like giving a kid a detention slip, he skips it and doesn't go, so you give him another one, he skips it, you give him another, etc etc repeat over and over again and he never goes to detention.

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## symatech

im sure Sadam isnt scared at all. hes got a mentality that what he does it right and nobody can stop him. Right now he's thinkin,,,look at those foolz, i wish theyd front on me so I can use my nifty VX and mustard gas warheads  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

i hear spec ops is already operating in Iraq. well i cant say that I am surprised. i suppose it really is inevitable...

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## saboudian

I think Saddam wants to be remembered as the man who stood up to the west.

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## tolinka

I call it the Gulf War 2....

I remember in 1991 when i was 7 years old the whole thing...we locked our selves in a room, with scotch tape on the doors and windows, three gas masks and 3 diffrent type of injectebles that you have to stick in your chest incase off chemical eposure or bological...each person had three of them, My mom, dad, and me...
I will never forget one night that I didnt want to sleep. I was staring out the window for a long time and out of now where there is this skad flying so low...i didnt get scared, i think i didnt know how serious it is i was kinda fascinated by it...
But the whole war preperation crap was bullshit...after about 2 days my dad said fuck it and got out of the room to go watch some tv...

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## saboudian

Where did you live at the time Tolinka?

I've actually heard quite a few adults say they were so scared they used to hide under their bed when they were kids during the cold war, i would never want to be in that situation where you are afraid to live.

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## tolinka

i lived back in israel...i just moved here not that long ago

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## stillsmall

> _Originally posted by palme_ 
> *
> And as for North Korea i think it´s the 1 million men strong army they have that prevents the USA from going in.*


you mean like the 1 million men strong army of saddam we stomped on years ago!?

no attack on North Korea cuz of China and russia.. let's get this straight boys..

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## symatech

> _Originally posted by stillsmall_ 
> *
> 
> you mean like the 1 million men strong army of saddam we stomped on years ago!?
> 
> no attack on North Korea cuz of China and russia.. let's get this straight boys..*


uhhhhh last i checked sadam never had a 1 million man strong army. Furthermore it is pretty much impossible to stomp an army that size in a month or two.

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