# STEROIDS FORUM > HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY- Low T, Anti-Aging >  Share your protocol..... for TRT

## Keep_It_Moving

Just curious to see where our members are at on what dosage?

1) What is your TRT protocol?

2) Where does this protocol land your values at?

Thanks to those who reply....

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## Proximal

Want to post, but don't understand what you are asking on #2, sorry.

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## InternalFire

I think OP means where does your protocol outlined at #1 set your blood values as for TT TF E2 etc

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## Simon1972

1) What is your TRT protocol?

75mg two times a week test E
0.5mg anastrozole with every pin.

2) Where does this protocol land your values at?

Test 30.4 (9.9-27.8)
Free T 847 (170-670)
Estradiol <44 (<166)


Good thread, simple and gives others food for thought.

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## Keep_It_Moving

> I think OP means where does your protocol outlined at #1 set your blood values as for TT TF E2 etc



exactly

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## ppwc1985

100 mg once week, anaz- .25 mg twice a week. Puts me at 750-850 e2 in the 20's

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## Keep_It_Moving

> 100 mg once week, anaz- .25 mg twice a week. Puts me at 750-850 e2 in the 20's


u only pin once a week? thats cool thanks for your input

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## hammerheart

I pin every five days, 150mg of Test E. It's driving my T levels through the roof (>13.50 ng/dl, day 5). Gear must be overdosed...

E2 (non sensitive) is at 32. Exemestane 6.25 EOD.

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## ppwc1985

> u only pin once a week? thats cool thanks for your input


 I've been on trt for 3-4 years and have tried Ed, twice a week and once a week. Honestly I don't feel an ounce of difference. So that's why I'm sticking to once a week. My hcg I do twice a week.

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## joebailey1271

> I've been on trt for 3-4 years and have tried Ed, twice a week and once a week. Honestly I don't feel an ounce of difference. So that's why I'm sticking to once a week. My hcg I do twice a week.


Thats what i do, 1 time a week with 200mg and .75 anast., I tried the 2xweek and felt like crap. It really doesnt make sense but that is the way it is for me. It puts my level about 900 at 5 or 6 days after the shot. Free T is about 25-30. It seemed like I could never get my E2 right with the twice weekly test, now it stays between 20 and 25 on 1 x per week.

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## Youthful55guy

I'm trying to respond, the frickin system won't let me post the name of the commonly used drugs because i have fewer then 25 posts! So I have to do it in pieces to figure out what's causing the problem. By the time I get through this post, perhaps I'll be over 25 posts.

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## Youthful55guy

Sorry to complicate things, but I have to preface the discussion with the fact that not everyone uses 100% T-Cyp, so we really need to understand how much molecular testosterone we are injecting. FYI, T-Cyp is 68.2% T, T-Eth is 72.0% T, and T-Prop is 83.7% T. This is important because mg per mg, T-Prop>T-Eth>T-Cyp for delivering molecular testosterone. There are also differences in half-life. Bottom line is that mg per mg, T-Prop delivers a much bigger punch faster and for a shorter period of time than T-Eth or T-Cyp. Then comes T-Eth, then T-Cyp. Clear as mud?

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## Youthful55guy

OK, I give up. I've spent way too long trying to get some simple information posted and it keeps getting rejected as SPAM. I think the monitors really need to review their SPAM policy!

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## Youthful55guy

I'm at 13 posts now. i guess I'll have to make another 12 or so fluff posts before i can post anything of substance.

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## hammerheart

No one cares about the %T in different esters. The resulting curve of T elevation over function of time is all that matters. About the wordfilter, try rephrasing.

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## Simon1972

> I'm at 13 posts now. i guess I'll have to make another 12 or so fluff posts before i can post anything of substance.


Can you please keep your posts on topic and stop filling this thread with useless posts. Go to the social threads if you need to get your posts up

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## Keep_It_Moving

anyone else care to share?

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## The_Crawfish

90mg T-cyp and 250 iu HCG Monday morn and Thurs night, .25 Adex 24hrs later.
Total T-800
Free T- 24
E2 sens- 20

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## hammerheart

Has anyone here experienced an increase in general well-being when adding HCG .

Since I've been on TRT my mood significantly worsened. One of the hypotheses I've come up with is loss of either LH itself or T precursors synthesized in the testes, thus leading to decreased pregnenolone, progesterone and DHEA - all of which have "neurosteroid" activity by themselves and as precursors (think of allopregnanolone), thus negatively impacting mood.

Some months ago I went to an urologist and had a ultrasound scan down there. He said they look "hypoechoic" which means ongoing atrophy and heightened risk of cancer, so I should check'em once a year, according to him. 

It seems reasonable to add HCG, so I must get a prescription. It's very cheap here, an amp of P*egnyl 5k would cost me less than $3.

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## Proximal

Started 8 mos ago: 150 mg. test c 1x/wk. sub Q. & .5 mg Arimidex 2x/wk. No HCG . At 3 months and sorry, don't have exact/complete numbers for this BW:1000 total test, but with a standard E2 test, was considered below acceptable range.

Lately: .75mg test c 2x/wk. & .125 (yes, a half of a quartered Arimidex) & still no HCG: last blood work showed 910 total (250-1100), 214 free (35-155) and Estradiol (ultra sensitive)@ 22 (<29). Goal is eventually to drop the Adex.

Incidentally, at about the 6-7 month mark, semen levels dropped noticeably. Started HCG 3 weeks ago (starting my first blast), I have noticed improvement in volume already.

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## Youthful55guy

> No one cares about the %T in different esters. The resulting curve of T elevation over function of time is all that matters. About the wordfilter, try rephrasing.


Actually, the % T in T esters makes a huge difference. If you inject 100 mg of T-Cyp you get 100 X 0.68 = 68 mg of Testosterone . If you inject the same amount of T-Prop, you get 100 X 0.84 = 84 mg of Testosterone. That's 47% more T on a mg per mg basis.

As you point out, the half life also makes a big difference, because the T-Cyp delivered T enters the system at about half the speed as the T-Prop delivered T.

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## The Deadlifting Dog

> Actually, the % T in T esters makes a huge difference. If you inject 100 mg of T-Cyp you get 100 X 0.68 = 68 mg of Testosterone. If you inject the same amount of T-Prop, you get 100 X 0.84 = 84 mg of Testosterone. That's 47% more T on a mg per mg basis. As you point out, the half life also makes a big difference, because the T-Cyp delivered T enters the system at about half the speed as the T-Prop delivered T.


Your math is off...
84 is 23.5% greater than 68.
Not 47%. Not sure why you get exactly double the amount... 47=23.5x2

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## Proximal

> Has anyone here experienced an increase in general well-being when adding HCG .
> 
> Since I've been on TRT my mood significantly worsened.


Man, since TRT, my mood has never been better. I never cared to do the HCG because at 57, could care less about sperm production. I had some testicular atrophy, but it was the BIG drop in semen (almost nothing) that forced the addition. I'll watch for further change in moods, but none yet.

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## Youthful55guy

Absolutely Right! My math is off. Punched the numbers too quickly into the calculator 84- 68 = 16; 16/68 X 100 = 23.5%. I stand corrected, but the point remains. The two esters deliver different amounts of T on a mg basis in addition to delivering them over different time periods.

PS
I'm still trying to figure out how to post my protocol. The system seems to reject it no matter how i reword it. Pretty frustrating to spend so much time typing in a sincere reply that I think would be of benefit to the conversation, only to have it continuously rejected as SPAM.

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## hammerheart

> cut


Dude who cares. You can't compare different esters on a per-mg basis anyway.




> Man, since TRT, my mood has never been better. I never cared to do the HCG because at 57, could care less about sperm production. I had some testicular atrophy, but it was the BIG drop in semen (almost nothing) that forced the addition. I'll watch for further change in moods, but none yet.


Eh, I'm 26. TRT impacted both volume and semen hugely. I don't care about fertility, but mantaining function could be crucial if I should ever be forced off TRT.

Perhaps, HCG might aid well-being too.

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## kelkel

> Has anyone here experienced an increase in general well-being when adding HCG .
> 
> Since I've been on TRT my mood significantly worsened. One of the hypotheses I've come up with is loss of either LH itself or T precursors synthesized in the testes, thus leading to decreased pregnenolone, progesterone and DHEA - all of which have "neurosteroid" activity by themselves and as precursors (think of allopregnanolone), thus negatively impacting mood.
> 
> Some months ago I went to an urologist and had a ultrasound scan down there. He said they look "hypoechoic" which means ongoing atrophy and heightened risk of cancer, so I should check'em once a year, according to him. 
> 
> It seems reasonable to add HCG, so I must get a prescription. It's very cheap here, an amp of P*egnyl 5k would cost me less than $3.



Been on it to long to remember the change in "feeling" (if any) but I definitely noticed a difference in testicular size without it. I'd be very curious to see what, if any difference you may feel from implementing it. 

Are you supplementing with Preg & DHEA to backfill pathways?

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## ZenFitness

I was on TRT with two 50mg injections a week and three 250 iU doses of hCG a week for 3 - 4 years. After moving to Colorado, I saw an endo who convinced me to try getting off it. Stopped everything entirely and my levels came in just over my pre-TRT levels (mid 300s if I remember correctly). I personally thought hCG left me feeling much less "hollow" when I did it... I felt much more well rounded with it, if that makes sense.

As a side note, I was on TRT for anti-aging low T (not because I lost my nuts or the like). After getting off TRT, I (perhaps oddly) feel much better and my head is in a great place. I was a nervous wreck before TRT and I think it (along with Cialis for increased blood flow not just to the unit but through my whole body) helped quite a bit to straighten me out, so I certainly don't bash TRT  :Smilie:

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## Simon1972

I use pregnenolone and dhea , albeit sporadically. Still feel like something is missing and I'd be keen on seeing if hcg does increase ejac volume too.

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## hammerheart

> Been on it to long to remember the change in "feeling" (if any) but I definitely noticed a difference in testicular size without it. I'd be very curious to see what, if any difference you may feel from implementing it. 
> 
> Are you supplementing with Preg & DHEA to backfill pathways?



I have experimented with many supplements including pregnenolone and DHEA, yes.

When I was on Nebido and felt moody, taking some DHEA in the morning resulted in slightly euphoria, with onset about ~4 hours after ingestion. It worked like magic, but it somehow stopped since last december, I dunno why.

Pregnenolone too gave mixed results, but the most impressing ones. Extremely relaxing (almost sedating), with a "hypnotic" feeling. Relieved anhedonia, some of the cognitive issues, but worsened others - I felt like being really dumb, which didn't surprise me. I've researched extensively about the matter so I know its metabolites have anti-cholinergic (cholinergic transmission is associated with sharpness) properties in the brain. Of course it will only affect _really_ sensitive individuals like me and not everyone. I could go further into details about brain chemistry but it would be OT and rather speculative.

I've tried the combo DHEA-pregnenolone and the result was *massive* antidepressant effect. However, it also spiked BP and made me feel dizzy, which i don't like.

Overall, the effects lasted a few hours. I don't like the idea of continuous supplementing through the day, it seems rather unnatural and might do more harm than good. I'd rather try low-to-moderate doses of HCG , enough to emulate baseline LH activity, and see if that is of help. I don't want to see any doc now (it would be deleterious for my psychological wellbeing, long story) and I still have to dial in with TRT, so I do plan to get HCG later, perhaps after summer.


Anyway, adding an AI dampened the depressive response from TRT to some extent. It's an overall balance problem. Oestradiol can compensate the effects of progesterone in the brain, and is imbalance between the two that gives women the "blues" (OK I'm no woman but...).


And oh, I might also add I got another weird and really unusual side from TRT: paresthesias, ie. mild tingling feeling in the extremities. Something is definitely messing with proper nervous system function. Endo was of no help here too, just replied "it's strange". Ok...

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## Mr.BB

> Still feel like something is missing and I'd be keen on seeing if hcg does increase ejac volume too.


Made a lot of experiments about this, of course all anedoctal evidence as I was the only test subject lol, but yes, if have sex immediately after taking 250ui of HCG the volume is much greater and "powerfull". So that means ejac around 30-40 minutes after HCG shot (yes Numbere I do last half hour, and more if wife lets me). Masturbation is not the same thing, so dont compare results through it, and of course all other major improvements on cum shot still apply, zinc, hydration, etc.
A few hours after HCG shot I dont feel this effect anymore.

EDIT: also for it to work I need to be off finasteride.

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## Simon1972

> Made a lot of experiments about this, of course all anedoctal evidence as I was the only test subject lol, but yes, if have sex immediately after taking 250ui of HCG the volume is much greater and "powerfull". So that means ejac around 30-40 minutes after HCG shot (yes Numbere I do last half hour, and more if wife lets me). Masturbation is not the same thing, so dont compare results through it, and of course all other major improvements on cum shot still apply, zinc, hydration, etc.
> A few hours after HCG shot I dont feel this effect anymore.
> 
> EDIT: also for it to work I need to be off finasteride.



hmm interesting, can you post up photos before/after?

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## Mr.BB

> hmm interesting, can you post up photos before/after?


Finally out of the closet?

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## hammerheart

> Made a lot of experiments about this, of course all anecdotal evidence as I was the only test subject lol, but yes, if have sex immediately after taking 250ui of HCG the volume is much greater and "powerfull". So that means ejac around 30-40 minutes after HCG shot (yes Numbere I do last half hour, and more if wife lets me). Masturbation is not the same thing, so dont compare results through it, and of course all other major improvements on cum shot still apply, zinc, hydration, etc.
> A few hours after HCG shot I dont feel this effect anymore.
> 
> EDIT: also for it to work I need to be off finasteride.


Mine is close to ZERO. However, I experienced an huge improvement during washout period from Nebido, though I was loosing hair all over my body (again). I guess FSH signal is still intact. 

Consider alternative finasteride options. There many natural 5-AR inhibitors out there. The most powerful is GLA (gamma-linoleic acid), found in borrage oil. Then comes omega 3s (linseed, fish oil, etc).

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## Simon1972

> Finally out of the closet?


me?! You're the one with a cock in your profile picture! lol- but seriously- i might have a go at HCG and see for myself- the supplements just dont work as adequately as id like.....and no, im too fond of the ladies!

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## kelkel

> hmm interesting, can you post up photos before/after?





> Finally out of the closet?





> me?! You're the one with a cock in your profile picture! lol- but seriously- i might have a go at HCG and see for myself- the supplements just dont work as adequately as id like.....and no, im too fond of the ladies!



Hysterical.....

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## kelkel

> I have experimented with many supplements including pregnenolone and DHEA, yes.
> 
> When I was on Nebido and felt moody, taking some DHEA in the morning resulted in slightly euphoria, with onset about ~4 hours after ingestion. It worked like magic, but it somehow stopped since last december, I dunno why.
> 
> Pregnenolone too gave mixed results, but the most impressing ones. Extremely relaxing (almost sedating), with a "hypnotic" feeling. Relieved anhedonia, some of the cognitive issues, but worsened others - I felt like being really dumb, which didn't surprise me. I've researched extensively about the matter so I know its metabolites have anti-cholinergic (cholinergic transmission is associated with sharpness) properties in the brain. Of course it will only affect _really_ sensitive individuals like me and not everyone. I could go further into details about brain chemistry but it would be OT and rather speculative.
> 
> I've tried the combo DHEA-pregnenolone and the result was *massive* antidepressant effect. However, it also spiked BP and made me feel dizzy, which i don't like.
> 
> Overall, the effects lasted a few hours. I don't like the idea of continuous supplementing through the day, it seems rather unnatural and might do more harm than good. I'd rather try low-to-moderate doses of HCG , enough to emulate baseline LH activity, and see if that is of help. I don't want to see any doc now (it would be deleterious for my psychological wellbeing, long story) and I still have to dial in with TRT, so I do plan to get HCG later, perhaps after summer.
> ...



You've done your research which is refreshing to see! Really interesting that you're so sensitive to the supplements, but in the long run I'd guess that it's a good thing. When it comes to HCG it sounds like a daily low dose regimen would suit you best. Like to hear how you make out with this.

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## Proximal

Bizarro, thanx for the insight. I have unopened bottles of DHEA & Pregnenolone in my medicine cabinet, but waiting till off cycle to try - too many other things going on now, really want to see the effect of them alone.

I'd like to add, so far I've been very happy that my prolactin levels from my pituitary adenoma have remained stable. I am on caber though.

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## J DIESEL3

50mg sub q 2 times a week test c

hcg 300iu 2 times a week 

Total T 748 (348-1197)
Free T 19 (6.8-21.5)
Estradiol 15 (8.0-35.0)

Also I went my first 2 years no hcg.. After adding hcg I felt fantastic!! It was for me the missing link for sure.

I take dhea as well but only 2 small does per day 10 mg each. I get a feeling of anxiety and being speedy for some reason taking any more of a dose.

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## InternalFire

This is sure valuable thread, and I will be keeping my eye on this since its in a great interest of mine, great thanks to all people contributing to share their experiences! THANK YOU

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## Charlie6

I'm on 80mg/wk test c, been on since January this year and finally just started HCG 250iu 2x/wk



Testosterone Adult Male
777 ng/dL
300 - 1080 ng/dL

REFERENCE INTERVAL: Testosterone , Adult Male
Access complete set of age- and/or gender-specific
reference intervals for this test in the ARUP Laboratory
Test Directory (aruplab.com).

Testosterone Percentage Free
2.6 %
1.6 - 2.9 %

Testosterone Free Calculation
202 pg/mL
47 - 244 pg/mL

INTERPRETIVE INFORMATION: Testosterone, Free
Tanner Stage IV 35 - 169 pg/mL
Tanner Stage V 41 - 239 pg/mL
The concentration of Free Testosterone is derived from a
mathematical expression based on the constant for the
binding of testosterone to Sex Hormone Binding Globulin
(SHBG).
Access complete set of age- and/or gender-specific
reference intervals for this test in the ARUP Laboratory
Test Directory (aruplab.com).

Sex Hormone Binding Globulin
18 nmol/L
11 - 80 nmol/L

REFERENCE INTERVAL: Sex Hormone Binding Globulin
Access complete set of age- and/or gender-specific
reference intervals for this test in the ARUP Laboratory
Test Directory (aruplab.com).

Testosterone Bioavailable
563 ng/dL
131 - 682 ng/dL

INTERPRETIVE INFORMATION: Testosterone, Bioavailable
Tanner Stage IV 40 - 485 ng/dL
Tanner Stage V 124 - 596 ng/dL
The concentrations of free and bioavailable testosterone
are derived from mathematical expressions based on
constants for the binding of testosterone to albumin and/or
sex hormone binding globulin.
Access complete set of age- and/or gender-specific
reference intervals for this test in the ARUP Laboratory
Test Directory (aruplab.com).




I'm also on 600mg/wk EQ. I'm hoping this and HCG won't throw off any test numbers. I need them to be similar to those above. What do you guys think? EQ may have an effect on shbg supposedly.

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## Charger Hemi

This is my protocol:
100mg Test. Cyp. - twice per week (day 1 and day 4)
Anastrozole 0.5mg - twice per week (day 2 and day 5)
HCG 500 IU - twice per week (day 6 and day 7)

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## LeeSin1

I pin on thursdays and inject 100 mg test c. I've had varying doses but honestly I like it on the "lower" side. 

This gets my total T in the 500~ range in trough (tried pinning twice a week splitting doses in half but caused terrifying acne. I think my mood might have been better but not always)

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## hammerheart

> Bizarro, thanx for the insight. I have unopened bottles of DHEA & Pregnenolone in my medicine cabinet, but waiting till off cycle to try - too many other things going on now, really want to see the effect of them alone.
> 
> I'd like to add, so far I've been very happy that my prolactin levels from my pituitary adenoma have remained stable. I am on caber though.


So you have a prolactinoma? How big is the thing? I remember the first time I had PRL checked, my hope was an elevated reading rather than being diagnosed with "idiopathic" LowT.

Does cabergoline help with libido? I experimented with a drug that enhances dopamine (selegiline), although it works in a different way. In a couple of weeks, the libido enhancing effect was really noticeable. As a word of warning, I don't recommend anyone reading here to mess DA agonists and the sort, as these drugs can have unpredictable sides.

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## Proximal

I don't recall the initial MRI reading, but the caber brought the size down to very acceptable levels according to the second MRI. Initially my prolactin was over 400 and the docs were surprised I wasn't producing milk or I wasn't losing vision. 

Can't say the caber helped with libido or anything else that I can recall, been on it going on 3 years now.

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## kelkel

I've been taking low dose Selegiline (Deprenyl) daily for about 8 years or so. Good stuff. Big believer in the life extension applications of this drug.

An Interview with Joseph Knoll, M.D. | Longevity and Aging Research Articles | Longevity Medicine Review

The Most Sought-After Anti-Aging Drug

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## Keep_It_Moving

bump

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## Noles12

I've been on for about 3 years now. 

Started out at 100mg/week Test Cyp which brought my total Test levels from negligible (<20) to around 200 ng/dL (Reference 250-1100)

Bumped me up to 150mg/week Test Cyp which brought them up from 200 to 400 or so. 

After 3 months on the 150mg/week, doc bumped me up to 200 mg/week. 6 months later my levels were:

Total Test 859 ng/dL (Ref 250-1100)
Free Test 236.2 pg/mL H (Ref 35-155)
Sex Hormone Binding$Globulin 14 nmol/L (ref 10-50)

I've stuck with this dose ever since which is going on about 6 months now. Don't have my estrogen results handy but I was in the normal range. No AI, no HCG .

I inject IM once per week and have had no issue with it that would warrant me wanting to increase the frequency

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## Keep_It_Moving

> This is my protocol:
> 100mg Test. Cyp. - twice per week (day 1 and day 4)
> Anastrozole 0.5mg - twice per week (day 2 and day 5)
> HCG 500 IU - twice per week (day 6 and day 7)



do u use the 1mg adex pills and cut in half or the dissolveable .5mg adex pills?

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## Keep_It_Moving

> This is my protocol:
> 100mg Test. Cyp. - twice per week (day 1 and day 4)
> Anastrozole 0.5mg - twice per week (day 2 and day 5)
> HCG 500 IU - twice per week (day 6 and day 7)


double post

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## Charger Hemi

I use the 1mg pill and cut it into two halves.

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## hammerheart

Those are a bitch to split (tiny and smooth), but I manage to cut'em into quarters.


I am feeling feebler as the weeks passes; something is not working as it should. Perhaps thyroid is worth an extra check.





> I've been taking low dose Selegiline (Deprenyl) daily for about 8 years or so. Good stuff. Big believer in the life extension applications of this drug.


I usually have an hard time with drugs but selegiline relieves my symptoms (especially brain fog) like nothing else. I might consider taking it again once stabilized with TRT.

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## FONZY007

> Just curious to see where our members are at on what dosage?
> 
> 1) What is your TRT protocol?
> 
> 2) Where does this protocol land your values at?
> 
> Thanks to those who reply....


160mg of test cyp. Broken into 2 shots a week

Take .25mg of AI day after injection

Last time bloods where pulled I was in the 700 total test range

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## FONZY007

> I've been taking low dose Selegiline (Deprenyl) daily for about 8 years or so. Good stuff. Big believer in the life extension applications of this drug.
> 
> An Interview with Joseph Knoll, M.D. | Longevity and Aging Research Articles | Longevity Medicine Review
> 
> The Most Sought-After Anti-Aging Drug


Kel what are your thoughts on metformin. For its anti aging affects..

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## kelkel

> Kel what are your thoughts on metformin. For its anti aging affects..



I've done a good bit of reading on it and it's interesting stuff. Life Extension is real big on it and there are finally studies toward the life extension aspect instead of diabetes. I'll probably end up trying it in time. Hopefully the FDA approves it for this purpose and it doesn't take 20 years......

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## Keep_It_Moving

> I've done a good bit of reading on it and it's interesting stuff. Life Extension is real big on it and there are finally studies toward the life extension aspect instead of diabetes. I'll probably end up trying it in time. Hopefully the FDA approves it for this purpose and it doesn't take 20 years......




Kel- what are your thought on the .5 and .25mg adex dissolveable forms compared to the 1mg pill that you can split? is the 1 mg pill difficult to split in half or into quarters?

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## Keep_It_Moving

> Those are a bitch to split (tiny and smooth), but I manage to cut'em into quarters.
> 
> 
> I am feeling feebler as the weeks passes; something is not working as it should. Perhaps thyroid is worth an extra check.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I usually have an hard time with drugs but selegiline relieves my symptoms (especially brain fog) like nothing else. I might consider taking it again once stabilized with TRT.


The adex 1mg pills are a bitch to split? is that true... do u split them into quarters only or in half as well?

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## Simon1972

problem solved.

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## Sfla80

> problem solved.


Ugh this thing sucks for.me. I don't know if I bought a cheap one. But I can't even split a dex evenly in half let alone 1/4s

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## kelkel

> Kel- what are your thought on the .5 and .25mg adex dissolveable forms compared to the 1mg pill that you can split? is the 1 mg pill difficult to split in half or into quarters?



I've only used the pills. Never bought a pill cutter. Most of the time they cut fine for me. It does not have to be perfect. Cut quick, not slow. If it powders a bit just scoop it up and take it. Still works!

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## Simon1972

> I've only used the pills. Never bought a pill cutter. Most of the time they cut fine for me. It does not have to be perfect. Cut quick, not slow. If it powders a bit just scoop it up and take it. Still works!


I use the exact one shown. I cut them up in bulk and store in a medicine jar. Perfect cuts, no powder. All it takes is 10 mins to get thru a pack of arimidex and I'm set for half a year.

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## kelkel

> I use the exact one shown. I cut them up in bulk and store in a medicine jar. Perfect cuts, no powder. All it takes is 10 mins to get thru a pack of arimidex and I'm set for half a year.


Nice!

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## InternalFire

> I don't recall the initial MRI reading, but the caber brought the size down to very acceptable levels according to the second MRI. Initially my prolactin was over 400 and the docs were surprised I wasn't producing milk or I wasn't losing vision. 
> 
> Can't say the caber helped with libido or anything else that I can recall, been on it going on 3 years now.


Hey man, could you share more on what measure units was it in 400? I have my last reading as 394.30 mlU/L




> Ugh this thing sucks for.me. I don't know if I bought a cheap one. But I can't even split a dex evenly in half let alone 1/4s


I have one of these too and I find it to be waste of a few bucks, what I use is a well-washed razor blade and a small wooden chop board so pils dont slide and cut pretty nice this way. It may have been I just got a bad quality pill cutter.

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## Proximal

IM, my prolactin was 487 with a range of 2.0 - 18.0 mg/ml

Regarding the pill splitters, I'm fine splitting those little Arimidex into halves, but any smaller, forget it. I prefer a very small scalpel. I use them to shave the callouses off my hands - of course I use a different one for pill splitting. I found I can cut the Adex into eigths that way (.125 mg.)

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## ryobi1

> Actually, the % T in T esters makes a huge difference. If you inject 100 mg of T-Cyp you get 100 X 0.68 = 68 mg of Testosterone . If you inject the same amount of T-Prop, you get 100 X 0.84 = 84 mg of Testosterone. That's 47% more T on a mg per mg basis.
> 
> As you point out, the half life also makes a big difference, because the T-Cyp delivered T enters the system at about half the speed as the T-Prop delivered T.


I have a hard time thinking a doctor would put you on T-Prop for HRT as it requires more pinning
and has such a short 1/2 life...the idea is to replace your T and maintain levels, not to
overload and replenish.

I take T-cyp 100mg a week, 
250 Hcg the day before T
200 mg DIM morn and eve
600 mg NAC morn and eve

T 38nmol....1100 total
estriol ...114

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## ryobi1

> problem solved.


i have one of these and it is a pain...
I use an exacto knife now, keep it clean,
and it splits them cleanly...the pill cutters difficulty
was trying to get the pill centered, it was always off the 
cut line, and forget about quartering

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## InternalFire

> IM, my prolactin was 487 with a range of 2.0 - 18.0 mg/ml
> 
> Regarding the pill splitters, I'm fine splitting those little Arimidex into halves, but any smaller, forget it. I prefer a very small scalpel. I use them to shave the callouses off my hands - of course I use a different one for pill splitting. I found I can cut the Adex into eigths that way (.125 mg.)


Oh man that means mega high so I for this reason have to forget about my prolactin level being of a concern at all, even it was at the top mark

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## Keep_It_Moving

bump for people to share their protocol.... TY

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## InternalFire

I dont want to spam bumping it empty-handed, so I may as well share my protocol that I have started from today on:

75mg Test-E + 250iu HCG E3.5D

Cant say where it will put me, about month in I will have bloods and will see from there.

So, BUMP

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## Rozzyrat

100 mg Test Cyp Sunday and Wednesday. 250 iu hCG eod. Currently on .25 Adex 24 hours after pinning. Previously I was at 1100 total t and 9 E2 with .5 adex 2x per week. I have redone bloods since dropping the Adex down to .25. My E2 was low to start. All my other number looked good. Hemocrit was maybe 1 or 2 points high.

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## FlyByU

> Can you please keep your posts on topic and stop filling this thread with useless posts. Go to the social threads if you need to get your posts up


youthful55guy has more knowledge about TRT that you will ever have Simon!

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## FlyByU

> me?! You're the one with a cock in your profile picture! lol- but seriously- i might have a go at HCG and see for myself- the supplements just dont work as adequately as id like.....and no, im too fond of the ladies!


But Simon is such a gay name! If you really are more fond of the ladies, it would not surprise me if you are one of those loser white guys with an asian wife!

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## hammerheart

I'm not sure why but sometimes I feel so weak I have trouble breathing...I'm starting to wonder whether I've crushed cortisol.

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## InternalFire

> I'm not sure why but sometimes I feel so weak I have trouble breathing...I'm starting to wonder whether I've crushed cortisol.


Is your rbc ok? When was the last time you checked it?

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## Simon1972

> But Simon is such a gay name! If you really are more fond of the ladies, it would not surprise me if you are one of those loser white guys with an asian wife!


Are you sizing up to me ? i hope you are trying to be funny.

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## hammerheart

> Is your rbc ok? When was the last time you checked it?


Two weeks ago, HCT 43%. No way I'm going to develop high hematocrit due to an hereditary genetic defect (beta thalassemia minor) that shortens the average life of red cells, in fact I was dealing with mild anaemia until last december.

Everything else (liver, renal, electrolytes) is OK. The issue isn't likely "physical"...

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## hawk14dl

Ive been on 160mg/wk with .25dex 2x a week and 350iu hcg 2x a week. Put me over 1200 with e2 around 25.

I cut myself back to 80mg/wk, no adex and no hcg. Sit around 800, e2 still around 25.

I actually feel better on the lower dose

Im an odd case for sure. Hcg actually caused me shrinkage, and i felt worse taking it. I dont care much about fertility.

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## juggs

My initial values for TT, FT, E2 were 302, 12.0, 19.1. 

Initially my TRT protocol was 105mg test-cyp twice per week, 1000iu hCG twice per week, 1mg adex twice per week. Following that for about 7 weeks my T levels were astronomical and E2 fell even further to 2645, 37, 17.5. I was beginning to have low E2 sides - achy joints, dry skin, itchy scalp, etc. so I lowered by adex dose by half and immediately my libido went from completely nonexistent to wanting to f*** inanimate objects.

I've since cut my hCG dose in half and changed adex dosing to 0.5mg EOD. Trying this out for a while, and haven't gotten new blood work yet but I feel great and the acne and oily skin issues as well as low E2 issues I saw initially have disappeared. Libido is still extremely high but not completely unmanageable like it was before. Will probably get blood work again in 3-4 weeks after my levels stabilize since switching to sub-q injection. 

In the future I also plan to drop to between 100mg and 150mg per week of T, depending on how my next labs look, but right now I'm recovering from a major surgery so the healing benefits of higher T are very much welcome at this phase. I'm also enjoying some much needed fat loss, with little to no effort.

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## waylaid69

> Ive been on 160mg/wk with .25dex 2x a week and 350iu hcg 2x a week. Put me over 1200 with e2 around 25.
> 
> I cut myself back to 80mg/wk, no adex and no hcg. Sit around 800, e2 still around 25.
> 
> I actually feel better on the lower dose
> 
> Im an odd case for sure. Hcg actually caused me shrinkage, and i felt worse taking it. I dont care much about fertility.


That's good information, thanks. I've recently been reading a lot of posts from guys on other forums who are doing great on 80mg total per week. Are you splitting your dose into 40mg twice a week or do you just inject 80mg once a week?

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## Keep_It_Moving

> This is my protocol:
> 100mg Test. Cyp. - twice per week (day 1 and day 4)
> Anastrozole 0.5mg - twice per week (day 2 and day 5)
> HCG 500 IU - twice per week (day 6 and day 7)


how are your labs with this protocol?

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## hawk14dl

> That's good information, thanks. I've recently been reading a lot of posts from guys on other forums who are doing great on 80mg total per week. Are you splitting your dose into 40mg twice a week or do you just inject 80mg once a week?


40mg twice per week, subq

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## xcraider37

60 mg. test cyp. 2x per wk. anastrozole when needed, no more than a .25 tab at a time. This keeps my total Test over 800 and e2 in mid 30s. Last bw Total t - 862 Bio t - 557 Free t - 206 % free - 2.4 Estradiol - 33

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## InternalFire

> 60 mg. test cyp. 2x per wk. anastrozole when needed, no more than a .25 tab at a time. This keeps my total Test over 800 and e2 in mid 30s. Last bw Total t - 862 Bio t - 557 Free t - 206 % free - 2.4 Estradiol - 33


Also subQ?

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## xcraider37

> Also subQ?


No not subq.

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## Youthful55guy

_Finally got over 25 posts. Hopefully this one won't get rejected as SPAM. Sorry for my earlier tantrum, I was frustrated that I spent so much time putting it together because I thought I had something to contribute._

As I mentioned earlier, different T esters have different amounts of T on a mg basis, so it is important to understand not only how much you are injecting, but also how much T it is actually delivering. Most guys use T-cyp (68.2% T), but some use T-eth (72.0% T), and a few of us blend in T-prop (83.7% T). My original TRT doc (a guy well known in the A4M community) got me started on this 4+ years ago. T-prop not only delivers more T on a per mg basis, but also has a much bigger kick because it delivers it more rapidly, which results in a more natural daily rhythm of peaks and naidars. Anyway, I like it and it works well with my daily injection protocol. I'm a big advocate of injecting small amounts on a more frequent basis rather than the superphysiological amounts needed with outdated weekly or less frequent protocols.

*PROTOCOL (@ last test)*
Compounded T mix of 180/20 mg/mL T-Cyp/T-Prop
Inject 0.07 mL daily (delivers 10 mg molecular T per day)
5 mg of Stanozolol AM & PM (10 mg/day) to lower SHBG
Anastrozole: 0.75 mg/week (dropper method @ about 0.11 mg/day)
HCG 100 IU/day (50 IU AM & 50 IU PM mixed with HGH
HGH 2 IU/day (1 IU AM & 1 IU PM SQ)
Armour Thyroid: 60 mg (1 grain) per day

*LABS*
Total T 809 (348-1197 ng/dL)
SHBG 16.5 (19.3-76.4 nmol/L)
Free T 23.4 (7.2-24 pg/mL)
E2 (sensitive) 23.3 (8-35 pg/mL)
IGF-1 224 (50-194 ng/mL)

Notes:
I've been using TRT for ~5 years and protocol has evolved over time
I am neither primary nor secondary, my problem is with excessively high SHBG and low Free T
SHBG without Stanozolol treatment is normally in the 70-80 range
All ranges are for a 50-60 year old male
Started HGH 6 weeks prior to test and baseline was 121 ng/mL

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## hammerheart

70-80 for SHBG? Wow, I was thinking I got it bad with 66. Adding an AI solved the problem for me. Last reading was 27, still some way to go.

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## Youthful55guy

I even tried crashing my E2 down to <5 and still almost no effect on SHBG. I've tried just about everything on the internet for controlling it, but the only thing that I've found that works for me is Stanozolol , and it's extremely effective at low doses.

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## Keep_It_Moving

> This is my protocol:
> 100mg Test. Cyp. - twice per week (day 1 and day 4)
> Anastrozole 0.5mg - twice per week (day 2 and day 5)
> HCG 500 IU - twice per week (day 6 and day 7)



I think my protocol will be like yours....does the .5mg adex not crash your e?

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## InternalFire

Would people care to share their body fat % along with with their protocol?

I feel there should be a correlation where people have lower body fat (13% and less) little to no AI may be required to my understanding

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## Keep_It_Moving

> Would people care to share their body fat % along with with their protocol?
> 
> I feel there should be a correlation where people have lower body fat (13% and less) little to no AI may be required to my understanding


i think my bf is around 12 or 15 not too sure what to compare it to...

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## InternalFire

I use calliper and body composition scales. At the moment I am ~13% average, obliques measure at 6% abs 13% chest and back 10%, but I will aim to be under 10% on the most stubborn places and in general will aim for single digit bf. with my trt will see if I can manage to be without AI by doing so

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## Keep_It_Moving

> I use calliper and body composition scales. At the moment I am ~13% average, obliques measure at 6% abs 13% chest and back 10%, but I will aim to be under 10% on the most stubborn places and in general will aim for single digit bf. with my trt will see if I can manage to be without AI by doing so


the leaner you are the less ai is needed? is that correct?

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## hawk14dl

Im at about 13% now. Been as high as probably 17%. No need for an ai unless i go over about 120mg/week

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## hammerheart

> the leaner you are the less ai is needed? is that correct?


As a rule of thumb yes... male aromatase is primarily expressed in adipose tissue, so the more the %bf the higher the degree of conversion.

My %bf (tape method) is about ~15. I should get hold of a caliper though.


At physiological levels (<= 800) probably I won't even need an AI.

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## FakeLove

250mg of Nebido (undecanoate) every two and a half weeks. This gives me roughly 920 ng/dl peak total T (range: 1055 - 288) and 570 ng/dl trough. SHBG is at the lower normal of the scale so free T is quite high.

0.25mg (1/4 pill) of Anastrozole every other day. This gives me E2 (trough, non sensitive) of 22 pg/mL, which is about the same as my natural non sensitive E2. My %bf is around 15.

Been on trt about 2 years and the protocol has evolved over time. Been splitting Nebido in four for over a year now. Originally I started splitting because a full dose (1000mg) gave high peaks and low troughs.

Now it works really good and I'm thinking of adding HCG 250IU twice a week.

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## Justice4all

Here's my original protocol that I have recent went back to.

Test C 120mg once a week
500 IU of HCG twice a week
0.5mg Arimidex once a week

Total Testosterone 775 ng/dL (348 - 1197)
Estradiol 56.5pg/mL (7.6 - 42.6) Standard Assay

Got my 27g pins so I'll be switching to Test C 60mg twice a week  :Smilie:

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## IncreaseMyT

Excellent protocol have seen that and many versions like it work great. Personally wouldn't change it if you feel good.

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## hammerheart

Today I pinned HCG for the first time... went for subq, hope I don't get a huge lump as for test e (which lasted a month).

Schedule plan is 250IU three times per week.

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## InternalFire

> Today I pinned HCG for the first time... went for subq, hope I don't get a huge lump as for test e (which lasted a month).
> 
> Schedule plan is 250IU three times per week.


that's exactly what is putting me off doing subq, as I lean out around my abs waist and back and I was thinking that would be some visible lump if it happened, as I do 75mg test-e (***30iu) and 250iu HCG (***50iu) E3.5D. I draw both compounds in to same syringe and then pin it all in to my glute, 3 weeks later all seems fine, never had a lump there or any major issues at all.

***from 100iu insulin syringe

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## IncreaseMyT

You guys should check into insulin syringe into the muscle tissue if you are that lean.

For instance delt.

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## NACH3

> You guys should check into insulin syringe into the muscle tissue if you are that lean.
> 
> For instance delt.


Not too many people are that low in my experience - but to each their own(and when you are it's great)

I was at or just under 10% and still needed a 1.5" on my glutes haha tried 1" and it would never get into the muscle

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## hammerheart

I have some extra fat on glutes, so I need a 1.5 there. But for delts a slin pin is enough.

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## NACH3

> Today I pinned HCG for the first time... went for subq, hope I don't get a huge lump as for test e (which lasted a month).
> 
> Schedule plan is 250IU three times per week.


I always go sub-q w/HCG - I don't like water based products/etc mixed with my oils... If you have a 5000iu vial of HCG - reconstitute it at 2ml... 1 unit is 250iu no reason for any lumps(usually from about .6+ml you'll receive those lumps)

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## kelkel

> I have some extra fat on glutes, so I need a 1.5 there. But for delts a slin pin is enough.



Why would you need 1.5" for a low volume TRT dose of test?

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## IncreaseMyT

I never use over a 1 inch needle.

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## hammerheart

> Why would you need 1.5" for a low volume TRT dose of test?


I don't, I haven't pinned glutes since nebido. I was just pointing out 1'' needle wouldn't be long enough for a proper IM.

I just happen to have a weird fat distribution. What I used were 1 1/4 needles anyway... I'm familiar with the metric system and inches sometimes confuse me.





> I always go sub-q w/HCG - I don't like water based products/etc mixed with my oils... If you have a 5000iu vial of HCG - reconstitute it at 2ml... 1 unit is 250iu no reason for any lumps(usually from about .6+ml you'll receive those lumps)



I don't like the idea of mixing oil and water.. sounds like huge pip would result.

The problem I had is with oil quality, I tried some UGLs and test with EO resulted in a huge lump. It took a whole month for it to get resorbed, damn.

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## kelkel

> I'm familiar with the metric system .



That would confuse the crap outta me.

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## bass

Protocol,

80 mgs twice a week SQ, 250 iu hCG twice a week one day after each test shot, IA 0.5 mg once a month,

Values,

TT= 850 on scale 348-1197
FT= 34 on scale 5-21
E2 sensitive= 19.7 on scale 8-35
IGF-1= 193 on scale 54-194

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## Keep_It_Moving

> Why would you need 1.5" for a low volume TRT dose of test?


KelKel- whats your protocol and where does it land your values? thanks for sharing!

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## Keep_It_Moving

> I never use over a 1 inch needle.



Same here, all 1 " ers here.

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## Keep_It_Moving

> You guys should check into insulin syringe into the muscle tissue if you are that lean.
> 
> For instance delt.



Hey IMT- what is your protocol and where does it land your values? thanks for sharing....

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## kelkel

> KelKel- whats your protocol and where does it land your values? thanks for sharing!


60 - 70 mgs x 2 per week. TT is usually 14 - 1500's and FT about 10 over range. E2 between 20 - 30 sensitive.
HCG 250 x 2 but will probably up to 3 x soon. I bounce around a bit here.

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## Keep_It_Moving

> 60 - 70 mgs x 2 per week. TT is usually 14 - 1500's and FT about 10 over range. E2 between 20 - 30 sensitive.
> HCG 250 x 2 but will probably up to 3 x soon. I bounce around a bit here.


no ai needed huh?

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## kelkel

> no ai needed huh?


Sorry, forgot to list it. .25 x 2.

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## waylaid69

> Protocol,
> 
> 80 mgs twice a week SQ, 250 iu hCG twice a week one day after each test shot, IA 0.5 mg once a month,
> 
> Values,
> 
> TT= 850 on scale 348-1197
> FT= 34 on scale 5-21
> E2 sensitive= 19.7 on scale 8-35
> IGF-1= 193 on scale 54-194


Do you still take SARM S-4 or any other SARM bass?

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## IncreaseMyT

I change my protocol here and there. Sometimes I will go down to 1 TC shot every 10 days.

Here is where I am at right now:

TC 200mg 1x per week
GOAL 1ml per week
HCG +b12 750IU 1x per week
IPAM 200mcg (even split serm/ipam/ghrp2) 3x per day m-f

Every week or so I am going in to get a amino+glutathione IV bag.

~ Todd "IncreaseMyT" Thomas

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## Keep_It_Moving

> I change my protocol here and there. Sometimes I will go down to 1 TC shot every 10 days.
> 
> Here is where I am at right now:
> 
> TC 200mg 1x per week
> GOAL 1ml per week
> HCG +b12 750IU 1x per week
> IPAM 200mcg (even split serm/ipam/ghrp2) 3x per day m-f
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing! =)

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## bass

> Do you still take SARM S-4 or any other SARM bass?


fvck no. that shit is nasty and since i am on TRT i don't see a need for anything else to be honest, i'm not competing or doing shows, so there is no point of adding more drugs into my system. happy with what TRT alone is doing for me.

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## bass

another thing i forgot to mention is i was put on thyroid medication (nature throid) few weeks ago, not part of TRT but i know it will make a huge difference in how i look and feel.

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## hammerheart

I was thinking... how much time for a change in feeling down there? I mean, since going on HCG . Last time they felt good was back in March/April, during "washout" from nebid.

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## kelkel

> another thing i forgot to mention is i was put on thyroid medication (nature throid) few weeks ago, not part of TRT but i know it will make a huge difference in how i look and feel.



Love to hear how you make out Bass!

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## bass

^^^ will keep you posted. so far loving it!

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## kelkel

> ^^^ will keep you posted. so far loving it!



Glad to hear it! Show your face around here a bit more when you can!

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## TxAggie

I'm only a few weeks into my IMT HRT protocol, but here it is:

100mg Test Cyp 2x per week
500IU HCG 2x per week (trying to maintain fertility, wife and I probably want more kids)
.5mg Adex 2x per week

So far I feel great on this. I suspect the Adex dosage may need some tweaking in the future, but I started with high-ish E levels before TRT.

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## Keep_It_Moving

> I'm only a few weeks into my IMT HRT protocol, but here it is:
> 
> 100mg Test Cyp 2x per week
> 500IU HCG 2x per week (trying to maintain fertility, wife and I probably want more kids)
> .5mg Adex 2x per week
> 
> So far I feel great on this. I suspect the Adex dosage may need some tweaking in the future, but I started with high-ish E levels before TRT.


curious why did u go with .5mg adex 2x week instead of .25mg adex 2x week? did u naturally have high estrogen on your blood draw?

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## Simon1972

> So far I feel great on this. I suspect the Adex dosage may need some tweaking in the future, *but I started with high-ish E levels before TRT*.





> curious why did u go with .5mg adex 2x week instead of .25mg adex 2x week?* did u naturally have high estrogen on your blood draw?*


 wake up KIM!!!?? lol

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## Keep_It_Moving

> wake up KIM!!!?? lol


whoops - it was late... lol

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## Keep_It_Moving

is there anyone taking over 200mg for test on trt?

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## Paragon73

> is there anyone taking over 200mg for test on trt?


 Plenty, I bet. 320mg slit into two doses gets me to the mid 800s measured 3.5 days after injection. Everyone responds differently.

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## Keep_It_Moving

> Plenty, I bet. 320mg slit into two doses gets me to the mid 800s measured 3.5 days after injection. Everyone responds differently.


wow thats a hefty dose there... glad its working for you.

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## waylaid69

> fvck no. that shit is nasty and since i am on TRT i don't see a need for anything else to be honest, i'm not competing or doing shows, so there is no point of adding more drugs into my system. happy with what TRT alone is doing for me.


Why do you say it is nasty? Is it just because of the temporary vision sides? Are there any other sides to S4? I thought you said you liked it in the SARMs forum a while back?

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## Beethoven

I pin .60 mg test cyp 2x per week
Discontinued HCG for a while because it spikes my E2 where I have to take anastrozole. This puts me at around 806 tt and 33 E2. Happy so far. Will start hcg again once my weight drops further.

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## oldnsedentary

> I was at or just under 10% and still needed a 1.5" on my glutes haha tried 1" and it would never get into the muscle


That just does not sound right, NACH3. I am over 10% and can use a slin pin on my delts and quads. For glutes all I ever use is a 1 inch needle.

I had a really hard time staying under 10%, so I gave up on it for a year or so while I try to add size without getting too fat.

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## bass

> Why do you say it is nasty? Is it just because of the temporary vision sides? Are there any other sides to S4? I thought you said you liked it in the SARMs forum a while back?


I concluded it was not worth the money and the risks. yeah man, vision sides are serious, also suppressive.

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## Lilphlip

Ok, so, with that being said when you do dosages are you dosing based on the actual real percentage or what it should be if it was 100% pure?
For instance should i pull 30% more in if i wanted to get a full 100mgs of cyp?

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## hammerheart

> Ok, so, with that being said when you do dosages are you dosing based on the actual real percentage or what it should be if it was 100% pure?
> For instance should i pull 30% more in if i wanted to get a full 100mgs of cyp?


Just stick with the total, don't bother about percentages. 100mg of TC are 100mg of TC, period.

Thanks for bumping the thread, I wished to post an update.

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## TShoot

> another thing i forgot to mention is i was put on thyroid medication (nature throid) few weeks ago, not part of TRT but i know it will make a huge difference in how i look and feel.


I may have missed it. How did you look and feel prior to starting your thyroid medication?

----------

