# MEMBERS EXPERIENCES > OVER 40 FORUM >  hard muscle

## eric in alabama

hi, i'm 52 and having trouble with hard muscle. i can gain size but muscle doesn't get hard like it used to. thinking about AS. any suggestions would be greatl appreciated.
eric

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## JohnnyB

Hey eric welcome to the broad

how long you been workingout? I'm sure you will get some good info on this here. 

EQ and winny is suppose to be a good harding stack. You might want to add some test to it also.

JohnnyB

P.S. Welcome to AR

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## eric in alabama

thanks johnnyb
i've been working out for 15 years. but the last few years really hard. it's very frustrating as i get older not to have hard muscle. i'm told i don't look a day over 40 and i'm in good shape for my age but would like to get bigger and harder. 
thanks for the help.
if anyone wants to give advise on how to get started on AS feel free
thanks again
eric

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## Tarzan

Welcome aboard !

Stick around and start reading you will learn alot on this board. 

Good luck

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## Ajax

> _Originally posted by eric in alabama_ 
> *I'm told i don't look a day over 40.*


Me too, but than again I am 40, so it's not as flattering when they tell me that!

Johnny B is right on. Test/EQ/Winny would be a good stack to give you some hard, well defined mucles with good vascularity.

Test Enathate or Test. Cypionate @ 200-400mg / week, weeks 1-9
EQ (Equipose, Boldenone ) @ 400mg/ week weeks 1-8
Winny 50mg /day weeks 7-11

You run the testosterone one week longer than the EQ becasue EQ takes longer to metabolize out of your system; 17-21 days for EQ vs. 14 days for Test En or Cyp.

Start Clomid the day after the last winny to restore your natural testosterone production. 

Include some anti-estrogen to prevent gyno/bitch tits. At 52 and if you are looking for hardness, I think Proviron is a good choice @ 50mg (2 tabs) ED from day 1 through the end of the Clomid. Proviron is a good anti-estrogen and is also has two more properties you will appreciate: it increases muscle hardness (good) and increases your sex drive (VERY good--if your wife can tolerate it!).

Alternatively you could use Nolvadex as your anti-estrogen, it's generally cheaper and you only take it if and when it's needed.

======= More on Clomid and Anti-Estrogens ============

*Q: What is gyno (gynecomastia) / bitch tits? What are the symptoms of gyno?*

A: Gynecomastia (commonly referred to as gyno or bitch tits) is the enlargement of the breast tissue in males. It can occur naturally in puberty or old age and results from an imbalance in estrogen action relative to androgen action at the breast tissue level. 

Steroid can increase the level of estrogen in the body which causes gyno. 

The symptoms of gyno are: swelling and tenderness of the nipples and breast tissue or itchiness of the nipples. If you experience these symptoms, treat them immediately! Once breast tissue forms, it is permanent! For treating the symptoms of gyno once they occur, see the note on Nolvadex below.

For pictures and more information on gyno, see  gynecomastia.org.

*Q: What is Nolvadex / Arimidex / Liquidex / Proviron? How do I prevent gyno / bitch tits?*

A: Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate), Arimidex / Liquidex (anastrozole) and Proviron (mesterlone) all act as _anti-estrogens_ (sometimes called anti-es). 

Estrogen is naturally found in the male body in small amounts, however, when taking certain steroids , an excess of estrogen can be created through a process called _aromitization_. This abnormally large concentration of estrogen can cause some undesirable side effects, such as enlargement of the breasts (commonly referred to as gyno or bitch tits), female pattern fat distribution and water retention.

Not all people who use steroids experience any estrogen related problems. Many people have taken many cycles at high dosages without using any anti-estrogens and have reported that they experienced no symptoms of gyno. Other people can take a small dose of steroids for one cycle and develop noticeable enlargement of the breast. 

Estrogen can be blocked in two ways: you can block it from aromatizing, or you can block it from binding to the estrogen receptors in the body.

Nolvadex prevents estrogen from binding to the estrogen receptors in the body. Nolvadex is generally taken if and when symptoms of gyno first appear. The typical dosage is 80mg the first day, 40mg every day until the symptoms subside and 20mg a day through the end of Clomid therapy.

Arimidex, Liquidex and Proviron all function as aromatase inhibitors and work by blocking estrogen from forming. Most body builders prefer to block the estrogen from forming, because in addition to preventing gyno, it also decreases water retention and keeps the body looking harder. Typical dosages for Arimidex are 0.25 mg a day to 0.5mg a day, with 0.25mg a day being average. Proviron is typically taken at a dosage of 50mg a day. 

ALWAYS have an anti-estrogen on hand when you take steroids! Tits look great--but not on men! Even if you take an aromatase inhibitor like Arimidex or Proviron, you should keep some Nolvadex on hand just in case the dose you are taking is too low and you start to see symptoms of gyno appear.

*Q: Are there any non-prescription anti-estrogens?*

A: No. 

*Q: I already have gyno, what can I do to make it go away?*

A: If breasts tissue has already formed, the only treatment is surgical; anti-estrogens will have no effect in reducing the size.

*Q: Can steroids cause hair loss?*

A: They can cause hair loss. It seems to affect men who already have a pre-disposition to male pattern baldness. See this post  here for more information on steroids & hair loss. 

*Q: Will I lose my gains when I stop taking steroids? How can I keep the gains I made on anabolic steroids?*

A: One particular problem with steroids is that they temporarily shut down the bodys natural testosterone production, so once the steroid cycle is completed, the body is not producing any testosterone. Without your natural testosterone, you feel tired, you have no libido and muscle atrophy (loss of muscle) can occur.

Most bodybuilders use Clomid post-cycle to restore their natural testosterone production.

On top of that, good diet and a good exercise regiment will help you keep most, if not all of your gains.

*Q: What percentage of my gains should I expect to keep?*

A: Nobody can tell you that. It depends on a lot of very individual factors. Some people keep most if not all their gains, other people (who ignore all the good advice here) have lost everything is a matter of months.

*Q: What is Clomid? How do I take Clomid?*

A: Clomid (clomiphene citrate) helps the male testes to restore natural testosterone production. Clomid is taken on the following schedule: 300mg the first day, 100mg a day for the next ten days and 50mg a day for another 10 days. 

Click  here for an excellent FAQ on Clomid.

*Q: When do I start Clomid after my cycle?*

A: When the LAST of the steroids are out of your system. Here is a chart that illustrates how long it takes specific steroids to get out of your system:

Anadrol : 8 - 12 hours after last administration 
Deca : 3 weeks after last injection and Clomid for 4 weeks 
Dianabol : 4  8 hours after last administration 
Equipoise : 17  21 days after last injection 
Fina: 3 days after last injection 
Primobolan depot: 10  14 days after last injection 
Sustanon : 3 weeks after last injection 
Testosterone Cypionate : 2 weeks after last injection 
Testosterone Enanthate : 2 weeks after last injection 
Testosterone Propionate : 3 days after last injection 
Testosterone Suspension : 4  8 hours after last administration 
Winstrol : 8  12 hours after last administration

Wait until ALL the steroids you have taken have been metabolized! For example, if you stop taking testosterone enathate (2 weeks) and Winstrol (12 hours) at the same time, wait 2 weeks!

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## eric in alabama

thanks a million ajax! i'm sure i'll have more questions before i start the cycle.

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## Canes4Ever

Welcome to AR Eric !  :Welcome:

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## monsterback

Welcome Eric. 

Great post Ajax.

This board is great. I don't know if I can anything to Ajax's post. I can ad that I did my first cycle at 49 years old and it was great feeling 25 again. I read for months before my first cycle. I had trained naturally since my teens. I do see muscle hardness and fullness in muscles I have not had for years. 

Good Luck,

Monsterback

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## Ajax

> _Originally posted by monsterback_ 
> *This board is great. I don't know if I can anything to Ajax's post. I can ad that I did my first cycle at 49 years old and it was great feeling 25 again. I read for months before my first cycle. I had trained naturally since my teens. I do see muscle hardness and fullness in muscles I have not had for years.*


Ain't it great?  :Big Grin:

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## devland2

i haven't gone AS as of yet, but i have done prohormones and of the few i have take 1-AD gave me very nice muscle hardness while on it and kept most of my gains when i came off

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## Pwrlftr

A simple cycle on a 200-400-200 mgs/week for 10 weeks pyramid/taper of Equipoise by itself can give you 8-10 lbs of hard, dense, almost permanent muscle. Be prepared to eat like a horse! (Pun intended)

pwrlftr

www.stacksandweights.com

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