# STEROIDS FORUM > ANABOLIC STEROIDS - QUESTIONS & ANSWERS > EDUCATIONAL THREADS >  Injection pain: Why it happens / How to prevent it / How to cure it

## one8nine

Welcome to the series of injection threads by one8nine and MuscleScience




First we'll talk about esters:




> http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=352741
> 
> Ester  An ester is a chemical modification were a alkyl group or groups are added to increase circulating time of a steroid compound, which controls the release of the hormone into the blood. The first word in the chemical name is the hormone, and the second word is the ester attached to the hormone; for example in Testosterone Enanthate the hormone is Testosterone  and the ester is Enanthate . The only difference between Testosterone Enanthate, Testosterone Decanoate and Testosterone Propionate is the rate of release of the hormone into the blood stream. 
> 
> Short ester  breaks down more quickly, requires EOD or ED injections. Examples are acetate and propionate 
> 
> Long ester  allows for a slower break down, therefore 2XW injections. Examples are Enanthate and Decanoate.
> 
> 17aa  Changing (Alpha Alkalizing) a hormones seventeenth position from carbon to a double hydrogen (C -> H2). Also known as Methyl. This process protects the hormone through the first pass in the liver, allowing a usable amount of hormone to be left over. Examples are M1T (Methyl-1-Test) and M-Tren (Metrienolone)
> ...


*What causes (non infection related) injection pain?*

first the shorter the ester, the higher the melting point
secind, the concentration of the gear.
third, the solvents used.
fourth, injecting too quickly
fifth, virgin muscle.

Pain is caused when the oil/solvents are absorbed by the body and crystals are left behind. 
Short esters (propionate or acetate) are harder, more painful crystals with melting points in the 100c range.
A hormone with a longer esters (excluding cypionate - cyp is long but also high melting point) can have a melting point in the 20c-40c range. not far off from human body temp. 

Pain is also caused by concentration of your gear. 
Building off of point 1: Let's say it takes the body 24 hours to absorb 1mL of a certain oil/solvent blend, and 24 hours to absorb 50mg of Testosterone Propionate. If 50mg (or less) of testosterone propionate is in 1mL of that oil, this injection should be painless. On the other hand, if 100mg of testosterone propionate is in that same 1mL of solution, then after 24 hours the body will have absorbed 50mg and 1mL, leaving 50mg behind in the injection area, crystalized and painful.
Its better to shoot 3mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate than 1mL of 150mg/mL Testosterone Propionate.
This is also why water based suspensions (Testosterone base/no ester, Winstrol ) hurt the most, water is very easily absorbed in the body

The solvents used can cause pain in 2 ways. Benzyl alcohol (BA) is used at 1%-2% as a preservative and antiseptic. If the alcohol content is too high the gear will burn. Pain in the first 24 hours is usually caused by heavy solvents, pain in the next few hours is usually cause by crystalization. Another way is a bad recipe. if someone used 2% BA, and the rest of the solution oil, the mg/mL would have to be low due to oil's weak ability to hold crystals. On the other hand, a recipe like 2% BA, 5% Guaiacol (super solvent), 10% Benzyl Salicylate (liquid asprin) with the filler split 50:50 between Ethyl Oleate (oil/solvent hybrid) and normal oil should be far less painful.

If you inject too quickly it can tear tissue.

If your muscle is new to the hormone, it will absorb the hormone very slowly, but absorb the oil/solvent very quickly. This will cause more crystalization and pain. As your muscles recognize the hormones, they will be absorbed more quickly, thus less pain. The deeper you inject into the center of a muscle group, the better.

*How do I prevent pain before I inject?*

Cut your shots 50:50 with sterile filtered oil. If you want to use 50mg of Testosterone Propionate, and you have 100mg/mL Testosterone Propionate- pull 0.5mL of your test prop, and 0.5mL of sterile filtered oil to shoot 1mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate. This is the #1 best way.
Dont bother with b-12, its water based- absorbed so quickly it will have little to no impact.

Before you shoot, it can help to warm your gear some (especially suspensions). You could put the vial in the bathroom sink and let hot water run over the vial for 2 minutes, and shake well. This will lower the oils viscosity also making it easier it pull into the syringe.

Inject slowly, take 30 seconds per mL. Use a 25g pin to inject so it forces you to move slowly.

If none of these work you could have dirty gear. Its possible there could be particles (although bacteriostatic) in the gear that are not causing infection, but still cause in site infection that made it through a filter.
See how to filter link: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?p=4177581

*How do I deal with pain once I have it?*

The worst thing you can do is ice it. Cold will help the crystals fall out of solution/suspension.
Its okay to take some ibuprofin to decrease the swelling, and help with pain.
Also being in a hot tub, or jacuzzi, or warm bubble bath will help melt the crystals down. Using a heating pad can help also.




Links to the rest of the series:

*The difference between normal injection pain and infection*
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=358617

*How to filter/sterilize gear*
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?p=4177581

*Passing out from injections*
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=358622

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## binder

good read.

this is very basic and is easy to follow for all levels of forum users.  thanks for the awsome post.

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## one8nine

thx.

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## Erdayimliftin

friggin awesome! Thanks for the post one8nine. This will really help alot with my injections!

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## CeeLo

One8nine, you never ciest to amaze me. Your wealth of knowledge and willingness to share it is unparallel.

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## ozz1eplayboy

man i have learnt more in 5minutes read this then all my yrs at school best post i have read on here thanx for making it ezy to understand too........

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## gman

I Have a question 4 any body who would have the knowledge of drug testing if I do any analbolic steroid ,would it be picked up on my drug test ,we do random piss test,I know it picks up the basics weed ,coke,and all the oyher crap ,I would realy respect your answer if you could help ,I am not using yet but very serious.I hope someone can help thankyou.

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## free_spirit

Gaawd, wow...thank you, appreciate your great post/s, always excellent information. Thanks.

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## muffin man

where can one acquire "sterile unfiltered oil"?

thanks, great stuff.

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## binder

> I Have a question 4 any body who would have the knowledge of drug testing if I do any analbolic steroid ,would it be picked up on my drug test ,we do random piss test,I know it picks up the basics weed ,coke,and all the oyher crap ,I would realy respect your answer if you could help ,I am not using yet but very serious.I hope someone can help thankyou.


please post your own thread. This isn't even close to that topic in here.




> where can one acquire "sterile unfiltered oil"?
> 
> thanks, great stuff.



Again, please read the forum rules and post in the appropriate forum and not in someone's thread. You can find this information by reading. There is actually a huge banner at the top of the page that refers you to oils used. You can also google it and find it as oil is just that, oil. It's not illegal to have, buy, sell or whatever sterile oil.

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## Mike111

thanks alot bro

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## muffin man

sorry my bad. i thought because i was asking about a specific thing mentioned above that it would be cool. i'll go check it out though, thanks man.

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## kloter1

The test I have right now is considerably more painful than my last cycle. its t300 and holy hell the inj site is very sore the next day and it takes about 6 days to fully go away. this has become a problem when i shoot delts i have to hold off on my shoulder day. most of the time ill take 2 ibuprofen three times a day to help. 

Lets say the pain is a 7 on a 1-10 scale. by warming the oil beforehand, how much less painful would it be? a 5 or 6?

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## LATS60

Heating the oil only serves to let it pass through the needle without having to apply so much pressure, therefore less movement and less PIP.
How to reduce post injection pain(pip). 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post injection pain can literally be a pain in the butt, amongst other places.
Hygiene and sterility, pre injection is obviously paramount in avoiding PIP.
We all know what that means.

Ok, for the last 2 months iv'e been using the Z track method and found that PIP especially in my quads is practically non-existent.

How to employ the Z track method?
Firstly get your injection point, then pull the skin across or down from that point, this moves the cutaneous and subcutaneous tissues a centimetre or two, this helps reduce the sensitivity of nerve endings, remembering to keep an eye on the injection point.

Next insert the needle sharply in at a 90dg angle to the depth you need.
Inject the steroid (after aspirating) at a rate of about 10 secs/ml, when fully injected keep the needle in place for another 10secs, so allowing the steroid to seep into the muscle.
Remove the syringe quickly, at exactly the angle you went in and release the skin, this is what stops any of your steroid leaking out and reduces bleeds, then apply a little pressure to the area, but don't massage the area, this can cause some of the oil to be released back up the needle track and into subcutaneous tissue, which can lead to swelling and PIP.

Exercising the muscle afterwards will assist the absorption of the steroid by increasing blood flow to the area.

Finally, if you know where and how to inject safely into the ventrogluteal muscle, this is the best choice as there are no major nerves or blood vessel.

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## kloter1

I dont think i could go in at 90degree but its def an angle to where i dont have any of it come back out. im going to try the heat suggestion next.

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## kloter1

well I heated my stuff up and everything became so much easier. drawing went alot faster. Shooting went faster but i definetly felt the warmth going in and the post-injection pain was minimized to almost nothing. I was shocked this morning that I had almost no pain. sweetness!

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## Haus of Hell

Been my experience that when you go too deep into the muscle tissue, it also cause more PIP-specifically the quad or other areas with little fat.

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## Bonaparte

> I dont think i could go in at 90degree but its def an angle to where i dont have any of it come back out. im going to try the heat suggestion next.


90 degrees is straight in. What's hard about that?

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## tominpa

I read that a hot tub will help the crystals absorb, would it be ok to go into a hot tub shortly after injecting? or should I let the muscles absorb the test first and wait till the next day?

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## markimarkie

Please advise how do I deal with pain once I have it? 
heath.....

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## tboney

> Please advise how do I deal with pain once I have it? 
> heath.....


I have used heat compresses and massaged the inj site.

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## illaJ

its been 48 hours since my first injection and i have a tiny bit of discomfort when i lay on my side (it was in my glute) and a little swelling. thats probably just me injecting too fast right?

ill def keep monitoring it but this really gives me confidence it isnt infected, thanks

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## The Chew

Is it adviseable to use a heating pad or something of the sort everytime one injects just to prevent crystallization or should you just use it as needed? seems like it could be a decent preventative measure.

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## -Ender-

depends on the individual. some have more pain than others. some don't have any

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## -Ender-

*bump*

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## e.nergie

i pinned in my shoulder the other day and now my arms red, i've pinned my ass the entire cycle and haven't had any issues but now my arm's itchy and has a red hue to it(maybe from just scratching it), ive looked at the other infections and it isn't any of them. the best comparison is like after a mosiquto bites you and you itch the area.

I'm 80% sure i am just aggravating the area and its only red cause I have access to itch it. I have no symptoms other then its red (due to itching I believe)

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## tigerspawn

Bump

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## Spartans09

Lots of posts about this lately. Bump

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## Grizzly Live

> The test I have right now is considerably more painful than my last cycle. its t300 and holy hell the inj site is very sore the next day and it takes about 6 days to fully go away. this has become a problem when i shoot delts i have to hold off on my shoulder day. most of the time ill take 2 ibuprofen three times a day to help.
> 
> Lets say the pain is a 7 on a 1-10 scale. by warming the oil beforehand, how much less painful would it be? a 5 or 6?


I pin t300 as well and I heat the oil under hot water for 2 mins then inject , pain from 7/10 to 4/10

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## texasbeast

Great post for newbies like me. Thanks

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## MajorPectorial

> I pin t300 as well and I heat the oil under hot water for 2 mins then inject , pain from 7/10 to 4/10


Yeh I simply fill a mug. Half hot kettle water. Half cold tap water. Pin top on and out of the water to ensure sterility. N let it warm up. Obv follow sterilize area b4 n after. I use alcohol gel like in hospitals. Always wait until gel has dissipated.

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## Sterlingcharles

Thanks bro. I was going to just give up on this prop cycle but now that I know what the pain is, it's bearable. I used to just heat my vial up under my armpit to body temp but now I heat it up slightly warmer and after my injection instead of massaging and resting the muscle I do a couple light sets to stretch it and get the blood flowing, then I use a heat pad anytime I'm sitting or laying down and it has helped tremendously. I mean there's still pain but not nearly as bad as before when I couldn't even get a decent sleep.

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## samzz41

How can i tell if its good gear or bad? Is there any way i could test it?

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

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## JamesGycle

Why is this thread making me so grumpy? I keep reading it over again and I don't know why

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## Jigga123

Hey guys just started my first cycle of test prop, is it normal for my shoulders and glute to be sore?
Ive injected twice in the shoulder and once in the glute and my glute is real sore and abit swollen not to sure if corked, shoulder is sore but not as bad as my glute!
And havent been witnessing any kind of fever flue or headaches!
First cycle so not really sure what to expect

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