# GENERAL FORUM > IN THE NEWS >  Bill Introduced to License Firearms

## Panzerfaust

Congrats Obama supporters! We are headed down the road of Socialism and the similarities of Nazi legislation are real.



If interested in your 2nd Amendment rights, you need to read the Bill. This is more government control and another effort to head us down the path of socialism. Good luck on being able to defend yourself in the future. You will probably be prosecuted if you shoot someone breaking into your home. I imagine this legislation will be passed in the middle of the night! I don't think we will recognize this country in the next 4 years. We are going to look 
like the inept and socialist Western Europe. 




> Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791.
> 
> A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


Hold your nose... this one really stinks!
Here is the first bill introduced by the Democrat controlled house that mandates licensing for all firearms owners...

You will have to carry a photo ID firearms license.
A training class is required to be licensed.
Disclosure of your storage method is required for license.
A thumb print is required for license.
Every sale recorded by the federal government.
If you move, and don't tell the Attorney General within 60 days, you are a criminal.
If a firearm is stolen and you don't report it, you are a criminal. 
There will be no grandfathered firearms. If you do not obtain a license and report every firearm you currently own, you are a criminal. 
There will be a license fee and a fee for the "services" provided at purchase time.
Licenses must be renewed every 5 years.

This is already in process. It's H.R. 45, Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009.



They continue to chip away at our civil liberties all based on a farce of "security".."its for the children". I laughed when I watched Obama swear to uphold the United States Constitution with a straight face. Bunch of ****ing scumbags all of them...the gov't no longer serves the will of the people, that is for goddamn sure. They slip legislation like this through in the middle of the night while they have Americans scared shitless and watching intently what is happening with the economy. Brilliant actually...but ones that have not lost critical thinking can see this bullshit.

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## redz

I take it you are a gun owner, I`m Canadian its much worse here but i can understand where you are coming from.

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## Panzerfaust

> I take it you are a gun owner, I`m Canadian its much worse here but i can understand where you are coming from.



No, i'm a Goddamn American!  :Madd: 


What does it matter if I own one or not? My next door neighbour has a right not to own one if he so chooses while the next can own one if he so chooses. It is our right and **** anyone that tries to take it away.


Here is the Text of the Bill:


http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/text

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## D7M

You are absolutely right, muriloninja. 

This is only the first step, and it's going to get worse.

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## *RAGE*

> You are absolutely right, muriloninja. 
> 
> This is only the first step, and it's going to get worse.


I got all mine before bush left office.....it will get worse.......NRA has some fighting to do

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## D7M

> I got all mine before bush left office.....it will get worse.......NRA has some fighting to do


yep, so did me and my buddies. 

I always want more though.

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## *RAGE*

> yep, so did me and my buddies. 
> 
> I always want more though.


me to always find something that i cant live with out.....I have the fullauto license...which is not going to be around anymore but I can only hope the paper work through the atf get lost......

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## Flagg

I hear Obama wants to dismantle some of Americas Nuclear warheads, but in some sort of agreement that Russia does the same? Heh, everyone will always keep back one nuke, "just in case".

Obama is pro Stem Cell research and Pro renewable energy, which is what I think is cool. That's got to mean something to some of you guys?

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## *RAGE*

> I hear Obama wants to dismantle some of Americas Nuclear warheads, but in some sort of agreement that Russia does the same? Heh, everyone will always keep back one nuke, "just in case".
> 
> Obama is pro Stem Cell research and Pro renewable energy, which is what I think is cool. That's got to mean something to some of you guys?


Obama has some real good ideas...and some not so good ideas...stem cell research is a good one...obams is going to have a tuffer gun laws which sucks for some of us....they just dont get it when it comes to guns...the bad guys dont buy them over the counter and that is where they put the rules....

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## Flagg

> Obama has some real good ideas...and some not so good ideas...stem cell research is a good one...obams is going to have a tuffer gun laws which sucks for some of us....they just dont get it when it comes to guns...the bad guys dont buy them over the counter and that is where they put the rules....



This kinda reminds me of UK politicians pushing to raise the age of alcohol consumption to 21. Currently it is 18, with a "think 21" policy used in all places that sell alcohol, Think 21 does what it says on the tin....question someone who looks under 21. Now they want to raise it to Think 25. It's absurd, because underage kids get their alcohol from small corner shops, not Supermarkets or Off Licences. I agree that these sort of laws only hurt law abiding citizens and does nothing about the people who are the problem in both cases.

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## *RAGE*

well maybe he will legalize the gear,,,,and a couple of other things...

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## Matt

Could be worse guys, you could be living over here..

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## amcon

> Congrats Obama supporters! We are headed down the road of Socialism and the similarities of Nazi legislation are real.
> 
> 
> 
> If interested in your 2nd Amendment rights, you need to read the Bill. This is more government control and another effort to head us down the path of socialism. Good luck on being able to defend yourself in the future. You will probably be prosecuted if you shoot someone breaking into your home. I imagine this legislation will be passed in the middle of the night! I don't think we will recognize this country in the next 4 years. We are going to look 
> like the inept and socialist Western Europe. 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


good post! noboma! damn him look for amo beening regulated as well!

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## amcon

> Could be worse guys, you could be living over here..


mad where are you?

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## D7M

> well maybe he will legalize the gear,,,,and a couple of other things...


pfft...that'll be the day. 

prone, would you give up your gun rights if it meant legalizing gear?

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## xo3et

America is land of the Free.... i don't think so after some time with Obama. 

UK has so many laws which are used to earn money its a joke, the only way your get anything from the UK government is if you move in from aboard or a minor and get pregnant. I know a few people who have got pregnant just to get benefits.

MAD MATT is spot on, UK is so f**ked up its unreal. 

I really hope America keeps its balls and doesn't back down from its proud stand against evil.

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## Matt

> mad where are you?


In the UK, Manchester, England.

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## *RAGE*

> pfft...that'll be the day. 
> 
> prone, would you give up your gun rights if it meant legalizing gear?


No never but if i had to give up one for the other I would just get it the same way now..good question..

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## amcon

> In the UK, Manchester, England.


cool can you start writing with a accent?

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## D7M

> No never but if i had to give up one for the other I would just get it the same way now..good question..


hmm, maybe I'll start a thread about this...

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## *RAGE*

you should lets see how every one feels about this...the 2nd amendment has always been a good discussion

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## Panzerfaust

> I hear Obama wants to dismantle some of Americas Nuclear warheads, but in some sort of agreement that Russia does the same? Heh, everyone will always keep back one nuke, "just in case".
> 
> Obama is pro Stem Cell research and Pro renewable energy, which is what I think is cool. That's got to mean something to some of you guys?


Ok, so preaching "lets go green" on one side makes it ok to say "Lets further restrict the people's right to bear arms" on the other?

No ****ing wonder America is doomed. Its the old "I'll take a little security over my freedom" piece.

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## jimmyinkedup

i hate that shit ....we may as well wipe our a$$ with the constitution anymore...patroit act -this - it goes on and on.....

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## BgMc31

> Congrats Obama supporters! We are headed down the road of Socialism and the similarities of Nazi legislation are real.
> 
> 
> 
> If interested in your 2nd Amendment rights, you need to read the Bill. This is more government control and another effort to head us down the path of socialism. Good luck on being able to defend yourself in the future. You will probably be prosecuted if you shoot someone breaking into your home. I imagine this legislation will be passed in the middle of the night! I don't think we will recognize this country in the next 4 years. We are going to look 
> like the inept and socialist Western Europe. 
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> America is land of the Free.... i don't think so after some time with Obama. 
> 
> UK has so many laws which are used to earn money its a joke, the only way your get anything from the UK government is if you move in from aboard or a minor and get pregnant. I know a few people who have got pregnant just to get benefits.
> 
> MAD MATT is spot on, UK is so f**ked up its unreal. 
> 
> I really hope America keeps its balls and doesn't back down from its proud stand against evil.



Hey Chicken Little, the sky is fallin.... :Aajack:

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## BgMc31

Obama has reiterated time and time again that he doesn't want to eliminate the 2nd amendment, that's just absurd!!!

I'm a gun owner (2 rifles and 3 handguns) and just like having to have a license to use a car, I don't see anything wrong with having a license for another lethal weapon (ie firearm). The 2nd amendment has been interpreted in several ways and their isn't a consensus correct answer. Some feel the phrase "well armed militia" was supposed to mean National Guard or the Reserves. Other's feel it means any and everyone should/could earn a gun. I'm not going to argue interpretation because it's clearly divided. 

Obama has made the statement of "there is a difference between gun ownership in rural Virginia and Southside Chicago". Some feel that if all the residents of high gun crime areas were armed the criminals would think twice about crime but most people living in those areas want no gun ownership by anyone. So it's two trains of thought. Neither is right or wrong.

So let's stop this BS theory that we are headed down the road to socialism and we're gonna end up like Russia. Again, THE SKY ISN'T FALLING!!!

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## Matt

> Hey Chicken Little, the sky is fallin....


You've lost me lol??

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## jimmyinkedup

i own ALOT of guns - mostly rifles and shotguns but several handguns as well. I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon ...and i think its BS - i nned to pay to license my guns (rifels , shotguns) ive owned for years - have them be counted and accounted for by the government - the same government this law was designed for the people to be able to protect themselves and ensure protection potentially FROM , that government ???...
Has anyone seen the patriot act abuses that occurred...its scary ..its BS and its unconstitutional ...just like this bill. Period ...end of story....

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## *RAGE*

> i own ALOT of guns - mostly rifles and shotguns but several handguns as well. I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon ...and i think its BS - i nned to pay to license my guns (rifels , shotguns) ive owned for years - have them be counted and accounted for by the government - the same government this law was designed for the people to be able to protect themselves and ensure protection potentially FROM , that government ???...
> Has anyone seen the patriot act abuses that occurred...its scary ..its BS and its unconstitutional ...just like this bill. Period ...end of story....


You said it bro...I had to pay a shit load and the atf call everyone I know to get the full auto license....I was like a cranker for that whole time looking behind me....

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## *RAGE*

> You've lost me lol??


MAD look something shiny

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## Matt

> MAD look something shiny


lol :Bbbump:

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## BgMc31

[QUOTE=jimmyinkedup;4413933]i own ALOT of guns - mostly rifles and shotguns but several handguns as well. I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon ...and i think its BS - i nned to pay to license my guns (rifels , shotguns) ive owned for years - have them be counted and accounted for by the government - the same government this law was designed for the people to be able to protect themselves and ensure protection potentially FROM , that government ???...
Has anyone seen the patriot act abuses that occurred...its scary ..its BS and its unconstitutional ...just like this bill. *Period ...end of story....[/*QUOTE]

Why, because you say so? I agree the Patriot Act was unconstitutional, but many felt it wasn't. So we've traded one unconstitutional bill for another, both in the name of safety? I think the Patriot Act was way worse, but that's my OPINION! Having lived in high crime areas before in my life and the fact that I went to 14 funerals before the age of 18 because of gun violence, I can understand the point of this bill.

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## *RAGE*

[QUOTE=BgMc31;4413952]


> i own ALOT of guns - mostly rifles and shotguns but several handguns as well. I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon ...and i think its BS - i nned to pay to license my guns (rifels , shotguns) ive owned for years - have them be counted and accounted for by the government - the same government this law was designed for the people to be able to protect themselves and ensure protection potentially FROM , that government ???...
> Has anyone seen the patriot act abuses that occurred...its scary ..its BS and its unconstitutional ...just like this bill. *Period ...end of story....[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Why, because you say so? I agree the Patriot Act was unconstitutional, but many felt it wasn't. So we've traded one unconstitutional bill for another, both in the name of safety? I think the Patriot Act was way worse, but that's my OPINION! Having lived in high crime areas before in my life and the fact that I went to 14 funerals before the age of 18 because of gun violence, I can understand the point of this bill.


bgmc31
I dont know you and dont know where you live but you have to ask your self where those guy came from.....that killed those people...where they bought in a store or where they bought on the street...??????

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## jimmyinkedup

you right bgmc31 - its my strong opinion ...but to say its unconstitutional is a fact -look at the constitution ...look at this bill....a 5th grader could read both and see this bill goes against the constitution ....

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## BgMc31

[QUOTE=prone2rage;4413963]


> bgmc31
> I dont know you and dont know where you live but you have to ask your self where those guy came from.....that killed those people...where they bought in a store or where they bought on the street...??????


Honestly brotha, they were a combination of both. Many of the guns were guns taken from parents cabinets. I'm sure many were bought/sold illegally. Trust me, I understand the argument that criminals don't get their guns legally for the most part, but gun ownership is a HUGE responsibility and shouldn't be taken lightly, nor should just anyone be able to own one. Look at the Virginia Tech massacre and the Columbine massacre. Both done with legally purchased firearms. The lonewolf who shot up the Jewish children's school did so with legally purchased firearms. The list goes on and on.

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## Nooomoto

> I got all mine before bush left office.....it will get worse.......NRA has some fighting to do


LOL...my brother and I bought 2 AR-15 A3's and a .44 Magnum between us right after we found out Obama got elected. All the local gun shops were packed every day during the purchasing of our weapons.

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## *RAGE*

[QUOTE=BgMc31;4414038]


> Honestly brotha, they were a combination of both. Many of the guns were guns taken from parents cabinets. I'm sure many were bought/sold illegally. Trust me, I understand the argument that criminals don't get their guns legally for the most part, but gun ownership is a HUGE responsibility and shouldn't be taken lightly, nor should just anyone be able to own one. Look at the Virginia Tech massacre and the Columbine massacre. Both done with legally purchased firearms. The lonewolf who shot up the Jewish children's school did so with legally purchased firearms. The list goes on and on.


that is true....i can not fight that...

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## *RAGE*

> LOL...my brother and I bought 2 AR-15 A3's and a .44 Magnum between us right after we found out Obama got elected. All the local gun shops were packed every day during the purchasing of our weapons.


I spent around 5 grand two month ago....my wife wanted to kill me, but i told her i could make about 10 in a year......sad but true..

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## BgMc31

> LOL...my brother and I bought 2 AR-15 A3's and a .44 Magnum between us right after we found out Obama got elected. All the local gun shops were packed every day during the purchasing of our weapons.


You and all those guys fell for the best advertising ploy in marketing history!! Gun dealers and conservative republicans scared people like yourself into believing that President Obama was going to outlaw guns, something he has gone on record saying HE WOULD NOT DO!!!!

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## *RAGE*

No he will not, but the last time it went from republicans to domcratic the prices went up and stayed up...it really good business....

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## Nooomoto

> You and all those guys fell for the best advertising ploy in marketing history!! Gun dealers and conservative republicans scared people like yourself into believing that President Obama was going to outlaw guns, something he has gone on record saying HE WOULD NOT DO!!!!


Well dude...these aren't our first gun purchases. Every member of this household has a Glock 23. My brother has a Mossberg, and every standard infantry rifle the US military has ever used. I also have an AR-15 SP1.

We were going to buy them anyway, the sooner the better, as prices started going up up up as soon as Obama got elected.

EDIT: We also bought Pelican cases incase we need to bury them or hide them somewhere...should the legislators get a little crazy. LOL

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## BgMc31

I never suspected that these weren't your 1st purchases brotha! I was merely stating the fact that gun store owners perpetuated false demand by claiming that the President would eliminate firearms. There were many billboards even here in las vegas stating "Hurry up before Obama gets in office!". I saw advertisements at Bass Pro Shops claiming the same. 

My above statement wasn't meant to offend.

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## Nooomoto

Nah I wasn't offended, it's cool. I'm just saying...sometimes democrat legislators get a little crazy when talking about gun control. Plus I like guns...so...why not just buy as much as I can, LOL.

 :Cannon:

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## MuscleScience

I somewhat agree with people having to have a license to buy a gun. I had to go through hunters safety class before I could get a hunting license. Maybe not a license per say, but some sort of safety course certification that must be shown to a dealer before purchase. There are a lot of stupid jackasses with guns that have no business owning one. Even if it is a right, they should still have some basic training in firearm safety. I believe this should be controlled by the states, to much sovereignty has been taken from the states in order for the Federal Government to consolidate its power. 

However by making someone register and licenses and all this other stuff leads down a slippery slope. Even the most die hard democrat or Obama fan has to understand that liberty is not took over night.

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## *RAGE*

*guns dont kill people, people kill people*

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## Matt

> *guns dont kill people, people kill people*


Some wise words.


Now where did i put that shinny thing :LOL:

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## stocky121

> Congrats Obama supporters! We are headed down the road of Socialism and the similarities of Nazi legislation are real.
> 
> 
> 
> If interested in your 2nd Amendment rights, you need to read the Bill. This is more government control and another effort to head us down the path of socialism. Good luck on being able to defend yourself in the future. *You will probably be prosecuted if you shoot someone breaking into your home*. I imagine this legislation will be passed in the middle of the night! I don't think we will recognize this country in the next 4 years. We are going to look 
> like the inept and socialist Western Europe. 
> 
> 
> 
> ...




welcome to our world. Over here if you injure someone while breaking into YOUR home you can be held liable and even face jail

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## *RAGE*

> Some wise words.
> 
> 
> Now where did i put that shinny thing


Even on a slow day ....your killing me..bro...lmao

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## *RAGE*

> welcome to our world. Over here if you injure someone while breaking into YOUR home you can be held liable and even face jail


We can kill them

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## jimmyinkedup

^^^^yeah but not if they are trying to steal your car...had a little trouble about 7 years ago ....and there wasnt even a murder or a firearm involved. Apparently protecting your vehicle as opposed to your home and its contents is viewed differently. I should say it all worked out OK ....but it was a PIA....

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## XD40

> Congrats Obama supporters! We are headed down the road of Socialism and the similarities of Nazi legislation are real.
> 
> 
> 
> If interested in your 2nd Amendment rights, you need to read the Bill. This is more government control and another effort to head us down the path of socialism. Good luck on being able to defend yourself in the future. You will probably be prosecuted if you shoot someone breaking into your home. I imagine this legislation will be passed in the middle of the night! I don't think we will recognize this country in the next 4 years. We are going to look 
> like the inept and socialist Western Europe. 
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not a big deal @ all guys. unless you are a criminal or have something to hide this shouldnt bother you....i own alot of guns and im okay with all of this...JMO

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## Matt

Anyone seen my shinny thing??

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## jimmyinkedup

> Not a big deal @ all guys. unless you are a criminal or have something to hide this shouldnt bother you....i own alot of guns and im okay with all of this...JMO


^^^^license fees apply to handguns as do most of the existing things you pointed out (pertain to handguns) - not rifles or shotguns. Also what about guns passed from generation to generation? I disagree and cannot understand how it isnt viewed as an infringement of our constitutional rights. This is big brother is watching sh*t .... Land of the free (as long as the government knows all) ....not the intention of our forefathers
JMO ....

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## XD40

> ^^^^license fees apply to handguns as do most of the existing things you pointed out (pertain to handguns) - not rifles or shotguns.(* In Illinois it does*) Also what about guns passed from generation to generation?( *I believe you can register them as long as the numbers are not ground off)* I disagree and cannot understand how it isnt viewed as an infringement of our constitutional rights. This is big brother is watching sh*t .... Land of the free (as long as the government knows all) ....not the intention of our forefathers
> JMO ....


maybe it is different in my state

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## SL63

Sounds very similar to what Canada did with their gun registry.

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## BgMc31

All firearms (rifles and handguns) must be registered here in Las Vegas (clark county).

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## jimmyinkedup

not here in PA - maybe because its a big hunting state i dunno..... i have well over a dozen unregistered rifles and shotguns - all handguns are registered ...and since i have a permit to carry concealed weapon waiting period not necessary upon purchase...

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## *RAGE*

> not here in PA - maybe because its a big hunting state i dunno..... i have well over a dozen unregistered rifles and shotguns - all handguns are registered ...and since i have a permit to carry concealed weapon waiting period not necessary upon purchase...


I only have a few rifles that are registered, and all my handguns are resgistered..we have the same concealed weapon and not waiting period...in florida.....

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## BgMc31

Believe it or not, Nevada is also a big hunting state, just not in the Vegas area, but clark county (Las Vegas area) is a very small part of the state, the rest is rural and mountainous. Good bighorn hunting here.

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## jimmyinkedup

^^^ huh i never knew that ...never thought to go on a hunting trip to Nevada!

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## BgMc31

YEAH MAN!!! Central and Northern Nevada has great hunting. Check it out, then if you ever plan a trip look me up and we can shoot some shit!! LOL!!!

Seriously as supportive of gun control as I am, I'm still an advid hunter and outdoorsman!

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## BuffedGuy

Peace be unto you all.

I am probably going to be the lone voice here, but I am very anti-gun. I think all guns should be banned from sale to the general public. 

Now to this, someone might say:
Bad guys don't get their guns registered, so in essence, you are only banning law-abiding citizens from defending themselves from the criminals who WILL get guns.To this, I say: the top two sources that criminals get their guns from include guns that were initially legally licensed and then converted to illegal usage:
An expert on crime gun patterns, ATF agent Jay Wachtel says... one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.

The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns...

Another large source of guns used in crimes are unlicensed street dealers who either get their guns through illegal transactions with licensed dealers, straw purchases, or from gun thefts. These illegal dealers turn around and sell these illegally on the street. An additional way criminals gain access to guns is family and friends, either through sales, theft or as gifts.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ocon/guns.htmlSo banning the sale of all guns would definitely make it much tougher for criminals to get their hands on guns. 

As for the argument that "guns don't kill people; people kill people." This is just a mantra. Guns make it easier for people to kill people. It's like saying "nukes don't kill people; people kill people." Yes, but nukes make it easier.

As for the argument that studies show that more guns means less crime, I think this article deals with this argument:

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Who...d=98678&page=1

And I think this study is the most impartial on the matter:

http://law.bepress.com/expresso/eps/1564/

It concludes:
Our conclusion from the available data is that suicide, murder and violent crime rates are determined by basic social, economic and/or cultural factors with the availability of any particular one of the world’s myriad deadly instrument being irrelevant. 

http://law.bepress.com/expresso/eps/1564/If there is no correlation, then it seems common sense to think that banning guns in a country with those social, economic, and cultural factors could possibly lower crime. We could at least *try* it and see if it works. What's the harm in trying it? 

As for the argument that a ban on guns would be Unconstitutional, this is untrue:
The [Second] Amendment is only 27 words: "A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." While the NRA emphasizes only the last 14 words, the U.S. Supreme Court and appeals courts have focused on "well-regulated militia" and "security of a free State" to rule that Second Amendment rights are reserved to states and their militias – nowadays, the National Guards.

The truth is -- and one would hardly know it from the mass media -- that since the Supreme Court's unanimous Miller decision in 1939, all federal appeals courts, whether dominated by liberals or conservatives, have agreed that the Second Amendment does not confer gun rights on individuals. The NRA view, opposed even by such right-wing judges as Robert Bork, has been consistently rejected.

Unlike the average media consumer, Douglas Hickman knows this truth. In 1991, he invoked the Second Amendment in suing the City of Los Angeles after failing to get a permit for a concealed weapon. In keeping with dozens of cases since 1939, the Circuit Court of Appeals ruled unanimously: "We follow our sister circuits in holding that the Second Amendment is a right held by the states and does not protect the possession of a weapon by a private citizen."

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2587
Now let the flame war begin! Let me get my water pistol out to defend myself!

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.

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## spywizard

> Obama has reiterated time and time again that he doesn't want to eliminate the 2nd amendment, that's just absurd!!!
> 
> I'm a gun owner (2 rifles and 3 handguns) and just like having to have a license to use a car, I don't see anything wrong with having a license for another lethal weapon (ie firearm). The 2nd amendment has been interpreted in several ways and their isn't a consensus correct answer. Some feel the phrase "well armed militia" was supposed to mean National Guard or the Reserves. Other's feel it means any and everyone should/could earn a gun. I'm not going to argue interpretation because it's clearly divided. 
> 
> Obama has made the statement of "there is a difference between gun ownership in rural Virginia and Southside Chicago". Some feel that if all the residents of high gun crime areas were armed the criminals would think twice about crime but most people living in those areas want no gun ownership by anyone. So it's two trains of thought. Neither is right or wrong.
> 
> So let's stop this BS theory that we are headed down the road to socialism and we're gonna end up like Russia. Again, THE SKY ISN'T FALLING!!!



The sky is falling.....

the supreme court recently ruled that it's the "individuals" right to own a gun, not the community "army " 

that is a ruling regarding the interpretation of the constitution that gives the right of the person to own a gun..

the issue has long been understood, if all guns are registered, it's much easier to take them... 

history, if we do not learn from it we are doomed to relive it.. most recent example = england..

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## jimmyinkedup

> YEAH MAN!!! Central and Northern Nevada has great hunting. Check it out, then if you ever plan a trip look me up and we can shoot some shit!! LOL!!!
> 
> Seriously as supportive of gun control as I am, I'm still an advid hunter and outdoorsman!


Hey thanks bro - i usually do 1 trip out of state/year or at least once every year and a half- i may just take u up on that!

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## *RAGE*



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## *RAGE*

MAD here is something shinny

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## Voice of Reason

You can see how slowly the government are disarming the people. I noticed before Christmas in my city the government held a gun buyback program and every upstanding American turned over there fire arms to the police for $200 and when they were out of money they gave out Wal-Mart gift cards worth $200... all in the understanding that times are tough and here is some compensation for the economic downfall so you can have some money to buy Christmas presents. Seems all to planned out to me there is a bigger agenda...

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## *RAGE*

> You can see how slowly the government are disarming the people. I noticed before Christmas in my city the government held a gun buyback program and every upstanding American turned over there fire arms to the police for $200 and when they were out of money they gave out Wal-Mart gift cards worth $200... all in the understanding that times are tough and here is some compensation for the economic downfall so you can have some money to buy Christmas presents. Seems all to planned out to me there is a bigger agenda...


Good point.....now that I think about it they did that here...

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## jimmyinkedup

its scary - people dismiss things like this - say oh conspiracy theories etc ...but if you look at the trends and the slow removal of constitutional rights - it is scary.... and a reason for concern IMO....

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## *RAGE*

> its scary - people dismiss things like this - say oh conspiracy theories etc ...but if you look at the trends and the slow removal of constitutional rights - it is scary.... and a reason for concern IMO....


I agree, when I hear here about the buy back program I just think of little old ladies who husband pasted away selling there gun..

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## AandF6969

Those who argue that the Second Amendment applies only to the National Guard, and not to individuals are simply wrong. The Supreme Court ruled last year that it is an INDIVIDUAL right, so the argument is over. Done. 

Also, regarding national gun registration - *Registration leads to confiscation.* Its happened time and time again. Governments really don't like that the people have power, and the original purpose of the Second Amendment was to be a last resort in case of an oppressive government. You guys DO realize that America wouldn't exist if it weren't for private ownership of firearms, right? The militias that fought the British army used their own weapons...

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## BuffedGuy

> 


In 1920, women were allowed to vote. A few years later, the Great Depression occurred. Therefore, I conclude that women being allowed to vote caused the Great Depression.

Cmon guy.

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## BuffedGuy

> 


In the United States, there are 34,000 gun-related deaths each year.

As for the two million number you cited, it is highly questionable. The study done had horrible flaws. It simply asked if a person has ever used a gun in self-defense. Yet we read:

"...88% of the violent crimes which respondents [Rs] reported to NCVS interviewers in 1992 were committed away from the victim's home, i.e., in a location where it would ordinarily be a crime for the victim to even possess a gun, never mind use it defensively. Because the question about location is asked before the self-protection questions, the typical violent crime victim R has already committed himself to having been victimized in a public place before being asked what he or she did for self-protection. In short, Rs usually could not mention their defensive use of a gun without, in effect, confessing to a crime to a federal government employee." 

In other words, even a gang banger would say that he used a gun in self-defense and that would boost the statistics.

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## BuffedGuy

Peace be unto you.




> Those who argue that the Second Amendment applies only to the National Guard, and not to individuals are simply wrong. The Supreme Court ruled last year that it is an INDIVIDUAL right, so the argument is over. Done.


Can you please source your statement? 




> 


I think the best bet for most people in that situation would be to call the cops and play it safe. Heroics will get you killed.

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## yourmom

Finally, criminals will stop getting there gun illegally and become choir boys.

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## AandF6969

> Can you please source your statement? 
> 
> I think the best bet for most people in that situation would be to call the cops and play it safe. Heroics will get you killed.


The case is Heller v. DC. It ruled that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right, not a collective one. 

I agree, there is no substitute for the police. But what is supposed to keep you and your family alive until the police get there? It's really not that hard to kick through interior doors...

Personally, I'd rather have a gun and not need it than need it and not have it.

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## BuffedGuy

> The case is Heller v. DC. It ruled that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right, not a collective one. 
> 
> I agree, there is no substitute for the police. But what is supposed to keep you and your family alive until the police get there? It's really not that hard to kick through interior doors...
> 
> Personally, I'd rather have a gun and not need it than need it and not have it.


Peace be unto you, *AandF*.

I agree with you that if I myself were in such a situation, I'd want to have and use a gun to defend myself. But the analogy I can give is that of speeding. I myself would love to over-speed, so in that sense, I hate the speeding law. However, I also know that if *everyone* was allowed to speed, there would be a lot of accidents and people would die. So just because I would want to do something *myself* does not really mean that it is a good thing overall and in general. In other words, we have to weigh the pros and cons of gun control. To me, it just seems intuitive to think that less guns means less deaths. I understand that this is a hotly debated topic, but that's just how I feel about the matter.

Again, I'm not really that attached to this subject. This is not one of those topics that I am passionate about. 

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.

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## AandF6969

I just have to ask... as one of millions of law abiding citizens, how does my owning guns responsibly affect anyone in any way, besides making my life and my family's life more secure? I have a Florida non-resident licence to carry which means I can legally carry on my person in 28 states. To obtain that license, I had a background check, mental health history check, fingerprints taken, and a training course on gun safety, legality, and marksmanship. If anything, the area around me is safer due to the fact that I have the means and ability to stop a crime in progress.

I don't think the speeding analogy really applies because when YOU speed, you are a danger to everyone because the distance it takes you to stop is greatly longer. My guns sitting in my safe aren't unlocking themselves anytime soon and marching around the neighborhood.

Another thing that firearms do is they *equalize*. A female with a gun can defeat a male with a knife, or an unarmed male who would normally be able to have his way with her easily. If guns are banned, they won't all disappear (look at drugs... bans don't work). If they magically did disappear, then criminals would start carrying knives. You can kill someone just as easily with a knife as a gun. I'd rather not have to square off in my home in a knife fight.

"Gun control - the theory that 110 lb. women have the 'right' to fistfight with 220lb. rapists"

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## quarry206

two things
this is not Obamas bill its Rep. Bobby Rush [D, IL-1] .. and this is not the first bill like this, there has been lots of other ones over the past 10 years. every since high school shooting start people have tired to make a name for themselves by putting there name on one..

we gave up liberty when we let Bush passed all those bills after 9-11 that allowed government to dip into our lives anytime they wanted to in the fear everybody might be a terriorist. obama isn't the first to screw with the bill of rights.. 

as far as the gun bill goes.. I can speak from only my knowledge (floirda laws) alot of these rules are already rules, they are just not enforced. depending on how this is actually put into effect it might speed up the the process, because all this information is already required to buy a firearm in the state of florida. 

now as far as reporting all your weapons, and movement and sale of those weapons. I like it as a former law enforcement officer who saw the pain and miss use of weapons. I do like the 'idea'. but its only an idea.. as a logical thinking person i realize laws only keep honest people honest and will not change anything, only hurt people protecting themselves...And it will hurt people that never would commit a crime. Firearms to alot of people are for sport and for fun, and YES it is relaxing to shot crap..

Every president has his ups and downs. all of them had their great points and down points. I like obama, but i don't think he is perfect. I liked ALOT of what ron paul said, but at the same time some of what he said was out-dated also. BUT .. the house and the senate have to pass it too.... so if it pass's you can't blame Obama, because 600+ other people could stop it if they wanted to



You will have to carry a photo ID firearms license_.<-- photo ID is required if you have one within reach, so a firearms card the an extra step is not over the top. as long as they make it so the card will wave a waiting period. Like the concealed_


A training class is required to be licensed_.<-- I think a good idea only because most people have no damn clue how to use take care of or shoot.. hell cops need to take more time on a gun range learning. I taught Firearms and it was scary to see how bad law enforcement shot.. but i agree this shouldn't be 'A LAW' should be something people do on their own_

Disclosure of your storage method is required for license_.<- this one is kinda weird but doesn't matter, its a question 'i think' is already asked on most request to purchase forms. but if not 99% of people will make something up anyways... but this is also something that shouldn't be law. but yet something people want to do for safety_

A thumb print is required for license_.<- already required in most all states, not really a big deal. by doing this does not mean you are going in a criminal database, only on file. there are way to many mis-understandings about what the government does with your finger prints_

Every sale recorded by the federal government_.<- this is the only one that jumped out at me because after readin section II of the bill the wording is very open. and the words "qualifying firearm" is often debated because it is suppost to mean handguns and assualt rifles. I didn't like the writting of section II at all.. but with the exception of one word. its a law that is already in place._

If you move, and don't tell the Attorney General within 60 days, you are a criminal.
*<- well this is a law anyways, for concealed weapons holders and anybody moving in general for your DL.. but if they make it another place to report to, it would add too much and be alittle stupid to have to spend a week everytime you move to make sure the government knows where you are.. but once again, its kinda already a law, this just adds to the laws of moving.*

If a firearm is stolen and you don't report it, you are a criminal. _<- actually is a law in most areas, probably all areas. something not enforced nor do i think anybody will ever be convicted on it, unless the DA believes they are hiding something. This is one of those things its never enforced because it would be way too much work just for somebody to say "i just found out myself" and it thrown out..._ 

There will be no grandfathered firearms. If you do not obtain a license and report every firearm you currently own, you are a criminal. _<-- i'm back and forth on this issue, because one it would be way too much work.. I did not see this in the bill when i read it.. i would ask the poster to tell me what section he saw it. but please understand i'm asking for my personal knowledge, not to debate it_

There will be a license fee and a fee for the "services" provided at purchase time.
Licenses must be renewed every 5 years*.<-- This is stupid because if you fail to meet the standards they take your permit, not your weapons, so once again you are not doing anything to protect people.. its only smoke so people don't see the lies behind it*


I would like to add, though i'm not a lawyer. most of the writting of this law is geared to licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector not the avg person owning a gun.. but i do whole heartly agree this will be only the begining if it passes.. I believe gun safety and control should be taught and used more. but the Feds should not be the ones making it happen

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