# STEROIDS FORUM > HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY- Low T, Anti-Aging >  Bitch Tits - Testogel 50 mg per day !

## chopper999

G'day - Anyone on this forum ever developed "Bitch Tits or Gyno " using TRT/HRT consisting of 1 Testogel 50 mg gel appilcation per day.

p.s. Using 1 - 50 mg gel app per day = 35 mg Test absorbed by the body per week as you only absorb 10 % of each 50mg gel app.

Cheers Chopper

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## forrest_and_trees

I suppose it's possible. Have you had your E2 levels checked? Are you taking any DHEA? It sounds like it's time to add an AI to your program.

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## zaggahamma

never heard of it with only 1 packet bro...

my estro went up from 25/30 to 78 on 2 or 3 packets though

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## chopper999

> I suppose it's possible. Have you had your E2 levels checked? Are you taking any DHEA? It sounds like it's time to add an AI to your program.


G'day Forrest - thanks for the reply I must tell you that as of yet I have not started TRT/HRT - I have the box of Testogel 50 mg at home but have not appiled 1 appilcation yet.

I just wanted to know if there is anyone out of the 1000's of members on this site who might have show signs of Gyno on 35 mg of test per week.

Cheers Chopper.

p.s. I asked my doc about an AI and he thought I was being a smart ass using medical terms to describe Gyno to him and how to fix it - anyway he said he would stop my HRT/TRT if I showhed signs of Gyno - what a wanker.

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## zaggahamma

that 35mg is an estimated amount remember

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## chopper999

> never heard of it with only 1 packet bro...
> 
> my estro went up from 25/30 to 78 on 2 or 3 packets though


G'day jpkman - thanks for the info it all helps - Cheers Chopper.

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## forrest_and_trees

Chopper,

Like jpkman inferred, it's pretty unlikely however, I can imagine there are rare cases, depending on the individual, were it's possible to get Gyno while using Gel. Some people are predisposed to have excessive Estadiol [Estrogen/E2] levels even without taking TRT. In fact, it's possible for excess E to cause a man to have low Testosterone [T] in the first place. I'm sure you've seen overweight guys with gyno or sometimes referred to as "man boobs"? Excess E is what causes this. 

In the case of being overweight, excessive fat actually contributes to the conversion [aromatization] of T to E. If you're one of those people who's predisposed, I could see where gel could increase the problem. That's why I mentioned the Aromatase Inhibitor [AI] also sometimes called Estrogen blockers.

While I'm sure you're familiar with the term TRT, it only address on thing; Testosterone , which is why TRT always turns it to HRT. [Hormone Replacement Therapy.] T is part of your endocrine system which means it affects many other areas of your health and this requires you to expand your program; at which point you are participating in HRT. It's common to take DHEA as part of an HRT program. [I won't bore you with *all* the details about DHEA; you can look it up on this site if you want to know more.] It's available over the counter [OTC] here in the states and is generally sold alongside vitamin supplements. It helps to increase natural T levels but it also increases E as well. So if you're taking DHEA, this too can contribute to Gyno. Again, this is another reason why most people include an AI with their program. 

Regardless of Gyno, at some point in your HRT program, you will likely want to add an AI. When the time comes, there's plenty of info both here on this site and online about this. It may be necessary to do some digging to find info to provide to your doc. [That's what I had to do. Once I did, my doc consulted with his pharmaceutical rep, and the rep confirmed it.] When you're ready, if you're interested, I could refer you to the sites I found. Just PM me and I'll share it with you. 

Regardless of what your doc says, if you truly need TRT, then you can't just quit it because of Gyno etc. This is a life long commitment. It will be up to you to stay informed and quite possibly, educate your doc. Unfortunately, most docs actually know very little about it. It doesn't mean he's a bad doc, it's just that no doc can know everything about everything. It's like taking a Ferrari to your neighborhood mechanic. He might be able to do an oil change, but there's no way in hell he'll know how to do a complete overall. 

Good luck and I hope you stick with it.

P.S. l don't recall all that you had tested however, if you have not, I'd recommend getting your E2 levels checked *before* you begin your TRT. That way it will be easier to track the effects of TRT on your E levels. Because your E *will* go up. It wouldn't hurt to also check your Free T levels and SHBG levels along with your thyroid which includes TSH, T3 and T4. All of this is effected by HRT and you will eventually be dealing with it. It's much better to know your starting point to compare with later. Most people don't do this, [myself included] and we ended up learning the hard way and were in the dark when it comes to understanding what causes what. Knowing will save you lots of time and put you ahead of the game. If your doc resists, insist on it and don't be afraid to provide him with info. One last note, I wouldn't give him info such as this thread or others comments on this board. As informed as we all are, we don't mean anything to your doc. He needs referenceable data from reputable sources to cover his arse. It's out there, you just need to dig. Hope this helps.

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## chopper999

G'day Forrest - thanks for all the info,help and encouragement I sent you a private messsage - on the subject of DHEA it is banned in Australia and I have fought with the Australian Authorities called the TGA { being the equivalent of the FDA } in this country over this matter of DHEA being banned here and a $250.000 fine if caught with a bottle of DHEA - it is total fu&*ing Bulls&**&t.

On the subject of BW I just had Testosterone levels checked twice and my Dr said that my level was 8 when it could be 33 and I asked for TRT.

Cheers - Chopper

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## zaggahamma

> G'day Forrest - thanks for all the info,help and encouragement I sent you a private messsage - on the subject of DHEA it is banned in Australia and I have fought with the Australian Authorities called the TGA { being the equivalent of the FDA } in this country over this matter of DHEA being banned here and a $250.000 fine if caught with a bottle of DHEA - it is total fu&*ing Bulls&**&t.
> 
> On the subject of BW I just had Testosterone levels checked twice and my Dr said that my level was 8 when it could be 33 and I asked for TRT.
> 
> Cheers - Chopper


i am suprised we can still get it over the counter here

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## chopper999

> i am suprised we can still get it over the counter here


Take it while you can you lucky people - Cheers Chopper

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## chopper999

Here is a pic or 2 of my new HERO his name is charlie arms and he is 63 years old .

Cheers Chopper

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## stevey_6t9

> G'day Forrest - thanks for all the info,help and encouragement I sent you a private messsage - on the subject of DHEA it is banned in Australia and I have fought with the Australian Authorities called the TGA { being the equivalent of the FDA } in this country over this matter of DHEA being banned here and a $250.000 fine if caught with a bottle of DHEA - it is total fu&*ing Bulls&**&t.
> 
> On the subject of BW I just had Testosterone levels checked twice and my Dr said that my level was 8 when it could be 33 and I asked for TRT.
> 
> Cheers - Chopper


tell me about it, australian authorities suck!

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## chopper999

> tell me about it, australian authorities suck!


G'day Stevey - when I pointed out to the TGA in Australia that DHEA was legally availble over the counter in the U.S.A. so why not in Australia - and that there was no difference in human bodies in Australia compared to the U.S.A. -they just told me it was banned and that was that.

Bottom line.

They are a bunch of bureaucratic wankers with their own hidden agenda taking it up the butt from big pharma with their kickback hands out at the same time - the only thing lower in the gutter is our local pollies.

Cheers - Chopper.

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## stevey_6t9

> G'day Stevey - when I pointed out to the TGA in Australia that DHEA was legally availble over the counter in the U.S.A. so why not in Australia - and that there was no difference in human bodies in Australia compared to the U.S.A. -they just told me it was banned and that was that.
> 
> Bottom line.
> 
> They are a bunch of bureaucratic wankers with their own hidden agenda taking it up the butt from big pharma with their kickback hands out at the same time - the only thing lower in the gutter is our local pollies.
> 
> Cheers - Chopper.


Well its legal here if you got a script, any anti aging clinic here would be happy to put you on, given your a suitable candidate.

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## chopper999

> Well its legal here if you got a script, any anti aging clinic here would be happy to put you on, given your a suitable candidate.


G'day Stevey - all I know is that I tried to import DHEA several years ago into Australia over the internet for personal use and I was told I faced a $250.000 fine and that DHEA was totally banned in Australia.

I never tried again but if you have new updated information saying you can get a script no problem at all with no worries from the TGA in Australia for importing/using DHEA for personal use that's one hell of a turn around from when I tried to bring a bottle in for myself in 2003.

Cheers Chopper.

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## forrest_and_trees

The truth is, it's not much different over here in the states. There are plenty of products available OTC in other countries that are illegal here or require a script. In fact, I read not too long ago that there are some in Washington who are trying to get DHEA reclassified as a controlled substance and therefore, only legal with a script. To add to the madness, just about *any* prescription drug that is available here in the states is 50% *cheaper* in Canada and 90% cheaper in Mexico. And I'm not talking about "knock-offs". They are the exact same drugs from the same manufactures here in the states. They just charge US citizens so much more because they can get away with it. It's also why there is so much opposition to universal health care. The competition would force them to lower prices. But now I'm getting off topic... Rant over...

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## chopper999

To change the subject what did ya think about Charlie Arms age 63 - he just got his pro IFBB card in his 60's.

Here are a few more pis of him - the one of him being compared to 1964 Mr.O - Larry Scott is quite revealing check out his legs.

p.s. Forrest just thought wondering if you got my PM I am still new to this software application.

Cheers Chopper

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## zaggahamma

amazing at 63

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## chopper999

> amazing at 63


Now jpkman - lets compare Charlie Arms to Arnold Schwarzenegger both in their 60's - see pics with this post.

Charlie Arms is living proof that if ya just keep training you don't have to look like Arnie in your 60's { No offence to the legend that is Arnold Schwarzenegger - just trying to prove a point } 

Cheers Chopper

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## zaggahamma

> Now jpkman - lets compare Charlie Arms to Arnold Schwarzenegger both in their 60's - see pics with this post.
> 
> Charlie Arms is living proof that if ya just keep training you don't have to look like Arnie in your 60's { No offence to the legend that is Arnold Schwarzenegger - just trying to prove a point } 
> 
> Cheers Chopper


yeh theres no doubt u can lose it and that with the right lifestyle and modern meds u can fight the inevitable...so this old guy competes? is there a super senior circuit? do u know a lot about this guy?

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## lovbyts

> G'day Forrest - thanks for the reply I must tell you that as of yet I have not started TRT/HRT - I have the box of Testogel 50 mg at home but have not appiled 1 appilcation yet.
> 
> I just wanted to know if there is anyone out of the 1000's of members on this site who might have show signs of Gyno on 35 mg of test per week.
> 
> Cheers Chopper.
> 
> p.s. *I asked my doc about an AI and he thought I was being a smart ass using medical terms to describe Gyno to him and how to fix it - anyway he said he would stop my HRT/TRT if I showhed signs of Gyno - what a wanke*r.


I would tell him at that point he would be fired and you will find a new doctor who knew the difference from aas/hrt and his ass.

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## chopper999

> yeh theres no doubt u can lose it and that with the right lifestyle and modern meds u can fight the inevitable...so this old guy competes? is there a super senior circuit? do u know a lot about this guy?


G'day jpkman here is Charlies Arms Official website - 

http://www.charliearms.com - he is now 67 years old.

p.s. Some of Charlies Other Credits and contest history.

Contest history:

I started competing after I turned 60 years old. The first contest I entered was the 2003 Southern States. 

2003 NPC Southern States - Masters Overall Winner 

2004 NPC Master's Nationals- Overall Winner ( 60+), crossed over (50+) (2nd Place HW)

2005 NPC Master's Nationals- Overall Winner ( 60+), crossed over to the (50+) (3rd HW)

Sept. 7, 2005 : Received an IFBB Pro Card retroactive from my back -to-back wins at the 2004 and 2005 NPC Master's Nationals

2006 IFBB Professional Masters Over 60 World Champion

The 1 st man to receive a Pro Card Over 60 (at age 62)

The 1 st man to win a Pro Card in 2 contests (would have been 1 but I had to qualify) 

The 1 st man to receive a retroactive Pro Card (2 months after I won my 2 nd Masters Nationals

Cheers Chopper

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## chopper999

> I would tell him at that point he would be fired and you will find a new doctor who knew the difference from aas/hrt and his ass.


G'day lovbyts - I totally agree with you bro!

Cheers Chopper

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