# FITNESS and NUTRITION FORUM > DIET AND NUTRITION >  * * * IF (intermittent fasting) Diets - post your opinions and experience here * * *

## gbrice75

I've seen a few scattered posts about this 'style' of dieting, but no threads dedicated to it. I'd like this thread to serve as just that. 

Share your personal experience with implementing this type of diet, your opinions on it, whether positive or negative. Discuss the possible benefits and drawbacks. This is not a new style of dieting, but it is picking up notoriety more recently due to sites like leangains for instance. It is becoming a widely discussed and debated form of dieting, and I think the number 1 diet board on the net should have a dedicated thread.

Please stay on topic and keep disagreements/debates respectful, thanks!

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## ADB007

I love this diet. I spent almost a year trying to break a fat loss plateau. I have been following a mix between "lean gains" and the "warrior diet" for the last few weeks. I have broken through my plateau and I am losing fat at a rapid pace. I have kept all my muscle and have even increased in strength.

The best part about it is the fact that you eat a large amount until you are full. So much better then small meals that leave you even hungrier than before you ate them.

To the people that think you will go into "starvation mode" or lose muscle because of the fast period, all those myths have been debunked. It is all "bro-science". 
http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top...-debunked.html


Also, here is a thread dedicated to Intermittent fasting with thousands of users having seen huge success. You rarely come across someone who has tried the diet and hasn't loved it. 

Most people are scared of change and will usually show huge ignorance to this way of dieting until they actually try it. That is life. This is also why i'm expecting huge initial negativity in these forums towards this way of dieting as it go's against all the "bro-science" that has been imprinted in your minds over the years. e.g "6 meals a day"
True studies have shown that meal timing is completely irrelevant, and that you can see as good results, if not better with one (warrior) or two (IF) meals a day. As long as you are getting in your correct macros in a 24 hour period.


IF - 
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=131542323

Warrior diet - 
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=113316481
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=131535343

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## Twist

I don't see any issues with this. I mean, if you sleep in and then skip breakfast its the same thing. No news here. I don't think this will way of eating will have any backlash or much resistance. It's nothing radical from what I can tell. Keto is much more radical than this. 

Not eating 6 meals a day has been discussed plenty of times on this forum. Idk about only one meal a day as that just seems unnecessary, but if you can get the calories in, why not. Not gonna drain your bodies energy stores before the next meal anyway. The problem with diets like this is not the meal timing, its that nobody sticks to it. Fat people eat too much, bottom line. Tell a fat guy not to eat for 18 hours and they snack all day, eat the 1 or 2 big meals, then lie about the snacking.

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## musclestack

My main issue with this is one that Twist pointed out in another thread about 'IF'. Let's say you're using this style of dieting to break through a plateau, but afterwards, change back to a 'typical' way of eating, say 6-8 meals a day. I would like to know from the people who have implemented this dieting, whether or not they have put on any body fat due to this. I know a lot of people complain that this happens after discontinuing keto....

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## VegasRenegade

> Tell a fat guy not to eat for 18 hours and they snack all day, eat the 1 or 2 big meals, then lie about the snacking.


Not this fat guy. Now it took a lot of time to get there. When I weighed 256 I ate three big meals of garbage a day lot of fast food and lots of bad snacks. I have a strong back ground as far as knowing how to lose weight from years of wrestling and coaching wrestling. So I have never had a problem droping weight just keeping it off. When I dediced to really make a perminate change the first thing i went after was portion control. first I did a two day juice fast to shirnk my gut then I started with the subway diet very good for portion control
After I got two 240 and added workouts I tired to do the 6 meal a day thing. I found it very hard to lose weight I had the flue for a week and could not eat droped 10 pounds. after this I switch to two meals a day and a bed time snack. With a very clean diet. Typical day wake up at 4:am have couple cups of joe go work out. eat breakfast some times have salad for lunch at 10:30 eat big meal dinner at 3 pm 8 pm snack of sardines etc. Many days I skip the lunch. now the snack makes me not doing the fast but big meal to big meal is 13 hours. it works for me. droping just under 2 pounds a week and keeping or adding muscel. If I hit a platue I may fast for a day or even two.

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## ADB007

> My main issue with this is one that Twist pointed out in another thread about 'IF'. Let's say you're using this style of dieting to break through a plateau, but afterwards, change back to a 'typical' way of eating, say 6-8 meals a day. I would like to know from the people who have implemented this dieting, whether or not they have put on any body fat due to this. I know a lot of people complain that this happens after discontinuing keto....


People who start this diet usually find that they can easy maintain a low bodyfat all year round. They therefore make it a lifestyle instead of just a "diet"

It is extremely practical in that you get to eat lunch and supper and only miss breakfast. The point is to be strict during your fast period as to maximize the fat loss

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## ADB007

> Tell a fat guy not to eat for 18 hours and they snack all day, eat the 1 or 2 big meals, then lie about the snacking.


This way of eating is intended for people with some *will power*. If someone is "secret eating" they won't lose weight on any diet

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## RaginCajun

this is an interesting thread. i think it would take me a while to train my body to only have two meals a day. its real hard for me to go 3 hours without having something to eat. i could not imagine waking up in the morning and waiting until lunch to have my first meal. i would go insane!

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## gbrice75

> My main issue with this is one that Twist pointed out in another thread about 'IF'. Let's say you're using this style of dieting to break through a plateau, but afterwards, change back to a 'typical' way of eating, say 6-8 meals a day. I would like to know from the people who have implemented this dieting, whether or not they have put on any body fat due to this. I know a lot of people complain that this happens after discontinuing keto....


I don't personally think it would be much of an issue, if at all. 18 hours is not an extraordinary amount of time, and you are still eating on a daily basis. Remember that within your 6 hour feeding, you are consuming a day's worth of calories. Studies are starting to show that consuming calories over the course of several meals vs. 1 large meal (which I wouldn't personally do, i'd break it down to 3 meals over a 6 hour period) makes very little difference in terms of metabolism and/or bodyfat storage. 

Keto is a whole other animal - you're literally changing your metabolism from a primarily glucose burning engine to a fat/ketone burning engine. 




> This way of eating is intended for people with some *will power*. If someone is "secret eating" they won't lose weight on any diet


It's funny, for people like me it might be just what I need. I'm an extremist; I know no middle ground. Give me a diet where I have a little leeway, and I completely F it up. I get into the mode of "ahh, I probably didn't quite hit 2500 calories today, I can have this granola bar..." etc. That's where things go wrong for me. With a diet like this, fasting, it's ALL OR NOTHING. Break the fast, game over - the whole point of the diet has been compromised. 

Time will tell, i'm doing more research but I might actually give it a go. There are only 2 potential problems I see for myself:

1) I will have to switch back to an all am workout schedule again, so as to stay on target with my fast/eat/fast schedule. (cannot do 5x week PM)

2) Eating upwards of 300g of protein over the course of a day/7 meals isn't tough. Getting in that much protein in 3 meals/6 hours presents a problem IMO, unless alot of that is coming from shakes. I can only handle so much chicken, fish, etc. in a matter of hours. Carbs and fat on the other hand won't be a problem!




> this is an interesting thread. i think it would take me a while to train my body to only have two meals a day. its real hard for me to go 3 hours without having something to eat. i could not imagine waking up in the morning and waiting until lunch to have my first meal. i would go insane!


The one thing I hate about this is no pre-workout meal, because IMO, in terms of training it's the most important meal of the day. That doesn't necessarily make it productive to fat loss though, so one has to pick the lesser of 2 evils. If you read up on it, you will see the alleged benefits of fasted training - although energy levels might not be optimal (equaling a sub par training session, grr) - the body supposedly adapts by 'enhancing' the anabolic environment PWO - when nutrients are finally introduced. I'll sure miss my oats and egg breakfasts though!

You may not be hungry though - picture eating 2000 + calories in a matter of a few hours - that's ALOT of food for your body to process in a short time.

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## RaginCajun

GB, that is the way i am looking at it, as fuel. no way i could go run 6+ miles on an empty stomach in the morning and get a good workout. my muscles and body would want to shut down and cramp up. i would love to utilize the fat loss, but my training would suffer badly as a result of not having enough energy. and yes, it would be tough to stomach 2000 cals in a few hours, unless it was full of useless nutrition like fast food or something.

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## gbrice75

> GB, that is the way i am looking at it, as fuel. no way i could go run 6+ miles on an empty stomach in the morning and get a good workout. my muscles and body would want to shut down and cramp up. i would love to utilize the fat loss, but my training would suffer badly as a result of not having enough energy. and yes, it would be tough to stomach 2000 cals in a few hours, unless it was full of useless nutrition like fast food or something.


Well, I may soon be giving a first hand account. Leangains has you taking 10g BCAA's prior to your workout. Hardly a meal, but it will help with regards to muscle breakdown.

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## RaginCajun

> Well, I may soon be giving a first hand account. Leangains has you taking 10g BCAA's prior to your workout. Hardly a meal, but it will help with regards to muscle breakdown.


while that is true, what will be your fuel for your workouts? yesterdays 2000cal dinner? having a hard time seeing how the body will react to not having readily carbs there to burn as fuel during workouts. i am doing endurance workouts, so i do not think i could benefit from this type of dieting. if i were only bodybuilding/powerlifting, maybe. i understand the fact of getting all your macros/nutrients for the day, but in two meals? i get really shaky when i happen to skip a meal. 

early last week, there were some articles referring to insulin . what kind of effect would this diet have on insulin?

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## marcus300

Is there anyone who is carrying a lot of muscle tissue had any success with this method?

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## charcold

Good point^ or somebody on their verge of all natural potential

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## gbrice75

> *while that is true, what will be your fuel for your workouts?*  yesterdays 2000cal dinner? having a hard time seeing how the body will react to not having readily carbs there to burn as fuel during workouts. i am doing endurance workouts, so i do not think i could benefit from this type of dieting. if i were only bodybuilding/powerlifting, maybe. i understand the fact of getting all your macros/nutrients for the day, but in two meals? i get really shaky when i happen to skip a meal. 
> 
> early last week, there were some articles referring to insulin. what kind of effect would this diet have on insulin?


To answer your first question - bodyfat would be the primary fuel source. Since the workout will come at around the 17 hour mark (into the fast), bodyfat will play a key role here. According to the articles, bodyfat becomes more readily available within the 11-18 hour window (optimal fat burning time). I agree that you probably will not feel that 'surge' like you do when having a big carb meal right before. But think of a CKD diet - you're getting NO carbs at all with the exception of a 1 day refeed. 

Insulin will obviously skyrocket with the 1st meal after the fast as it will be extremely low. This of course will come PWO when you're in a very anabolic environment. You really need to read the articles if you want to understand this as i'm not doing it much justice with my explanation.

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## RaginCajun

your right GB, going read the articles. i should have read them before i commented.

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## Twist

For anyone who is about average build, but needs to lose fat, and has no problem with feeling starving, then this diet will probably help you with your goals. However if you have an average build, and have no problem with feeling starved, then you probably don't need this diet. 

If you are allowed BCAA then you should be allowed protein as long as it has no fat. 

I would suggest that for most people the results are from not eating what they normally would during the day. Not sure but for most people I know eating 1,500 cals 40/40/20 of healthy food is pretty difficult. To each his own really. 

I don't know all the details of the diet yet but I would say that if you can eat like a normal person within reason then do so and exercise to lose weight. 

Marcus: there was somebody on here (who competes, idk if it was fireguy or someone else) who said that some competitors he knew were having some success with the method. Not sure about who said it though but I do remember hearing it.

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## gbrice75

I have continued to actively research this style of dieting and will be updating this thread with various comments (from random people just discussing/debating the topic) that strike me as interesting and/or relevant. I have already seen quite a few keepers before deciding to start posting them here, but not sure if i'll go back to find them again. Anyway, this first one is from somebody referring to the currently accepted 6-8 smaller meals per day...

_To me it's like sleeping. It doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense to sleep for 30 minutes every 3 hours. Sure, "technically" it's still 8 hours of sleep, but it's not the same.

Same with food, in my opinion. The problem is people looking at calories in a 24 hour period, as if the body waits until the end of the day to add sh!t up. You're either in a deficit, a balance, or a surplus(by conventional wisdom). Who says you can't be in all three at different times in the day?_

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## gbrice75

Here's another:

*Question:*  _I always thought that fat loss was impossible without a caloric deficit? (regardless of whether it is induced by cardio or diet, or both)_

*Answer:* _You are in a deficit, during the fasting period. Then you use the overeating period after your workout to build muscle.

Lose fat, build muscle...what's so hard to understand. Sure, the concept is difficult when you've been brainwashed into believing you can only cut/bulk/maintain, or that you must strictly view diets as deficit or surplus over a 24 hour period._

Nark recently made a comment right along these lines. While he wasn't specifically talking about IF diets, he said something to the effect of "your body is in a constant process of building and breaking down, all throughout the day..."

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## gbrice75

Another:

_The whole muscle breakdown/starvation mode arguement is so silly. If you go beyond the sacred 3 hours or even 24 without food your body isn't going to go ape sh!t. We've been here millions and millions of years, I think the body has learned a trick or two in that time.

There's no way you can be losing muscle at any appreciable rate by not eating protein every 3 hours.

And unless you're TRYING to lose muscle with cardio, I don't think it's gonna happen that easily. 

It makes no sense if you think about it. A caveman spends the day moving, searching for food, chasing prey and the whole time he's losing muscle? fvck no, our bodies have glycogen stores and fat stores for a reason, and they are for energy when we have no food. If we burned muscle every time we excerted ourselves even minorly in a fasted state, cavemen would not have the muscle mass needed to run, fight, and survive, and the human race would not be here. Maybe aliens gave us protein bars every three hours so we could fuel our hunts and stayz anabolic! In my opinion our bodies never adapted to use food as an immediate source of energy. We evolved as energy storage machines._

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## gbrice75

And another:

_The body was designed to function perfectly fine for short periods of time between meals (by short I mean daily, not every 2.61256 hours like people think).

How is being active and then feeding yourself fully later in the day somehow worse than chronically underfeeding your body for prolonged periods?

"I know, instead of giving our body everything it needs to replenish and rebuild itself every night, lets give our bodies just enough food to survive throughout the day. That way we can train out body to downregulate its metabolic function to match the piss-poor caloric intake it's getting with each sh!tty little mini-meal. If we're really lucky, the food will be just enough to inhibit fat use by the body, but not enough to meet energy demands!!"_

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## gbrice75

Another:

_People need to understand some basic terminology.

Metabolism- the complete set of chemical reactions occuring in the body needed for life

Catabolism- the breakdown of material for energy

Anabolism- the building of material from energy



Notice catabolism didn't say "burning biceps for fuel". Digestion, by nature is a catabolic event. The breakdown of nutrients for fuel.

Catabolism fuels Anabolism

Re-read that

Once you understand that, you can see how the body can breakdown food, fat, glucose, and old damaged muscle fibers and use it to rebuild new muscle and tissues.

Catabolism isn't to be feared, as long as Anabolism dominates. That's why it's important to get in enough food and nutrients. That's the "secret" to recomp. That's why the standard "Cut 500 cals, then divide the rest evenly between 6 meals" is retarded.

Give your body time to break stuff down, then give it what it needs to build back up._

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## Standby

> Is there anyone who is carrying a lot of muscle tissue had any success with this method?


i know you guys have way more knowledge then me thats for sure but even if i knew absolutely nothing about diets. obviously we love muscle so wouldnt marcus make a lot of sense. i would assume everyone doing this diet turned out to be a skinny guy. see anything big dudes using this diet and continuing to get bigger? just a question/ thought

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## gbrice75

> i know you guys have way more knowledge then me thats for sure but even if i knew absolutely nothing about diets. obviously we love muscle so wouldnt marcus make a lot of sense. i would assume everyone doing this diet turned out to be a skinny guy. see anything big dudes using this diet and continuing to get bigger? just a question/ thought


Check out the clients and testimonials sections on www.leangains.com, under the results section.

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## Standby

> Check out the clients and testimonials sections on www.leangains.com, under the results section.


thanks for that GB interesting

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## gbrice75

> thanks for that GB interesting


The more I learn, the more sense this is making. I know there will be alot of people against this, but again, it's not new and it's not witchcraft. I will continue to research over the next couple of weeks, but I may have to guinea pig this one, I think it's worthy.

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## falco21

What exactly is the way this diet is used? And how many days is the fasting being done and how is it being done? I'm asking based on the research you are getting Gbrice. I have seen quite a few ways on doing it, which way in particular are you researching? The Warrior Diet?

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## gbrice75

> What exactly is the way this diet is used? And how many days is the fasting being done and how is it being done? I'm asking based on the research you are getting Gbrice. I have seen quite a few ways on doing it, which way in particular are you researching? The Warrior Diet?


The daily cycle of fasting/eating is indefinite. i.e. run it for as long as you like. From the feedback i'm gathering, many people seem to do so well on this type of plan, they stick with it regardless of having reached their goal. They are claiming constant hunger on the traditional 6-8 small meals/day (I can attest to this, i'm CONSTANTLY thinking of my next meal), and little to no hunger at all during the fasting period. This due to the very large meal consumption prior to the fast (a full day's worth of calories in 8 hours or less).

I started off researching leangains, but am now researching IF diets as a whole.

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## gbrice75

Another one:

_On the topic of food/protein digestion, consider the fact that it takes 7 hrs for the body to assimilate 30 g's of casein. Simply put: during this timeframe, amino acids be released into your bloodstream and exert anticatabolic actions. That's from a mere 30 g; now consider doubling the amount, say 60 g, and you will have a constant supply of amino acids for most of your waking/sleeping hrs. Im providing an example in order to put things into perspective for those wondering about the trivial role meal frequency plays in amino acid metabolism, considering an adequate total protein intake._

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## falco21

What I'm asking though is I have seen this fasting diet done in many different ways. For example. Some people will fast on Monday. They will stop eating at around 3 in the afternoon and then at 3 pm the following day, they will eat all their calories from then until 9pm at night. Then they will continue eating normal and do a fast again on Friday, the same way. I have also heard people that do it every other day. What I'm asking is based on all these facts your finding, which way is the fasting being done? Or is it not stated?

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## gbrice75

> What I'm asking though is I have seen this fasting diet done in many different ways. For example. Some people will fast on Monday. They will stop eating at around 3 in the afternoon and then at 3 pm the following day, they will eat all their calories from then until 9pm at night. Then they will continue eating normal and do a fast again on Friday, the same way. I have also heard people that do it every other day. What I'm asking is based on all these facts your finding, which way is the fasting being done? Or is it not stated?


Ok, I see what you're getting at. I've seen 16/8, 18/6, 20/4, and so on (fast/eat). Leangains calls for 18/6. According to the author, fat loss is optimized somewhere within the 13th - 16th hour of a fast. So he recommends 18/6, and it's every day. Does this answer your question?

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## falco21

That's exactly what I was looking for! But I have a few more questions. I have been following this thread since I really want to try this to get through my plateau right now. I have read that this is an excellent way for fat loss and to get over that hump if your stuck. Basically if I were to follow the 18/6 fasting diet, what I understood from it is that for me, since I workout in the morning, I would drink my BCAA's 15 minutes before pre workout. Then train. BCAA's again split twice between 8am-10am. Then from 12-1 pm I would eat the largest meal of the day. Then at 8-9pm I would eat the last meal before the fast. 

My question is, If I were to do this, what would my two meals look like and how many calories and other macros should I be shooting for? What foods would be involved in these meals?

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## Twist

I am putting a female client on this diet to see how it works out. 18 hour fast, 6 hour feed split into two meals. Starting at 1200cals and then moving up to 15-1800cals.

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## gbrice75

> Basically if I were to follow the 18/6 fasting diet, what I understood from it is that for me, since I workout in the morning, I would drink my BCAA's 15 minutes before pre workout. Then train. BCAA's again split twice between 8am-10am. Then from 12-1 pm I would eat the largest meal of the day. Then at 8-9pm I would eat the last meal before the fast. 
> 
> My question is, If I were to do this, what would my two meals look like and how many calories and other macros should I be shooting for? What foods would be involved in these meals?


Understanding that i'm starting my research at the beginning of Leangains - i.e. about 4 years back. I can only understand it fully if I see how it developed and was refined over the years. With that, I see some people breaking their fast with a pre-workout meal (not just BCAA's, but a full on meal), and others actually claiming MORE energy when working out fasted, so they break it with a PWO meal. 

In either case, your PWO meal should be the biggest. I'd make it about 1/2 of your total caloric intake. Nothing else changes; you stick with the same total macros that you'd normally split over 6-8 meals. Also, you don't HAVE to take 8 hours to eat your food. If you want to eat in a 4 hour window then get back on the fast, you can do that (it doesn't work the other way around though, you can't exceed 8 hours). You can eat your food in one huge single meal (seems impossible if you're eating wholesome food), 2 meals, or 20 meals - it doesn't matter, as long as you're hitting your caloric goal, and staying within the alloted 8 hour 'feasting' window.




> I am putting a female client on this diet to see how it works out. 18 hour fast, 6 hour feed split into two meals. Starting at 1200cals and then moving up to 15-1800cals.


Twist, i'm glad to see you're willing to try this although you sounded skeptical at first. If you don't plan to update here regularly, would you mind PMing me with her progress? Obviously, I have a vested interest.

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## maxwkw

I used this style of dieting for about 8 weeks. I was maintaining my weight. My body composition got a little bit better. I can't really say it was better or worse than spreading out my calories, but it was kind of hard to eat so much all at once.

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## iseckz

I'm going to try the FASTing Diet. 
174lbs
5'9
12% 
looking to get to 7% 170lbs

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## Twist

> Twist, i'm glad to see you're willing to try this although you sounded skeptical at first. If you don't plan to update here regularly, would you mind PMing me with her progress? Obviously, I have a vested interest.


I'm always willing to try new things. That's the reason I like personal training, because I can experiment on people!

Her stats:
5-3
120lbs
23%bf or so.
Gains fat like a man. All around the stomach, super lean legs, upper body lean except some fat on her arms. She looks great but we just can't get the extra weight from around the waist. 
Diets Completed:
2,000 cal maintenance to increase muscle mass to offset fat balance.
800cal maintenance to get rid of fat, went from 126ish to 123
Calorie cycle 2500cal refeed (sunday) to 300cals at the end of the week (saturday), went from 123 - 120. Touched 118 but couldn't maintain with vacations.
IF diet, 1200 cals starting at about a 50/25/25 split Diet started today 4/30/2011
Next diet if this fails is keto.

Training:
cardio 6 days per week running. If her knee hurts its recumbent bike. 
Weight training 3x per week with me - legs, upper push, upper pull

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## gbrice75

Nice. How long will her fasts be? 18 hours? What time of day will she train? How long will you have her run this before u decide whether it 'passes or fails'?

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## gbrice75

> If you are allowed BCAA then you should be allowed protein as long as it has no fat.


To address this - the answer is no. It's not about fat, it's about minimal calories for maximum 'bang'. Whey protein is about 25% BCAA, so you would need alot more of it to get what straight BCAA will provide. We are trying to maintain as close to fasted state as possible, but conceding the 'lesser of 2 evils' in order to avoid muscle breakdown and keep protein synthesis stimulated.

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## Twist

> Nice. How long will her fasts be? 18 hours? What time of day will she train? How long will you have her run this before u decide whether it 'passes or fails'?


18 hour fast training times vary. Weights will be done in the middle of her "feast" time so that pwo is the last meal and will consist of fewer carbs. Some days cardio is done at night after all feasting, sometimes cardio is done in the morning. Tuesday is the only rest day and sometimes not even that. As of today she has gained some weight back at 1200 cals. We are scaling back carbs even more at night. 




> To address this - the answer is no. It's not about fat, it's about minimal calories for maximum 'bang'. Whey protein is about 25% BCAA, so you would need alot more of it to get what straight BCAA will provide. We are trying to maintain as close to fasted state as possible, but conceding the 'lesser of 2 evils' in order to avoid muscle breakdown and keep protein synthesis stimulated.


 Good point. She is not doing any bcaa or anything so that should not be a problem.

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## maxwkw

Weights will be done in the middle of her "feast" time so that pwo is the last meal and will consist of fewer carbs. Some days cardio is done at night after all feasting, sometimes cardio is done in the morning.


I'd make her post workout meal the highest carb content. Even if it's the last meal of the day. You'll have better partitioning that way.

Usually what I'll do is 20% of my carbs for the day in the meal pre-workout and 80% in the meal immediately post workout. I had pretty good luck with that setup.

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## gbrice75

> Weights will be done in the middle of her "feast" time so that pwo is the last meal and will consist of fewer carbs. Some days cardio is done at night after all feasting, sometimes cardio is done in the morning.
> 
> 
> I'd make her post workout meal the highest carb content. Even if it's the last meal of the day. You'll have better partitioning that way.
> 
> Usually what I'll do is 20% of my carbs for the day in the meal pre-workout and 80% in the meal immediately post workout. I had pretty good luck with that setup.


You've run an IF diet before? Which flavor?

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## SlimmerMe

I've tried the fasting with the lemon water and teas........and fastly went to Burger King one night............

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## Twist

> Weights will be done in the middle of her "feast" time so that pwo is the last meal and will consist of fewer carbs. Some days cardio is done at night after all feasting, sometimes cardio is done in the morning.
> 
> 
> I'd make her post workout meal the highest carb content. Even if it's the last meal of the day. You'll have better partitioning that way.
> 
> Usually what I'll do is 20% of my carbs for the day in the meal pre-workout and 80% in the meal immediately post workout. I had pretty good luck with that setup.


Carbs at night = fat gain for her. I had a 50/50 split but it wasn't working out.




> I've tried the fasting with the lemon water and teas.......


Everyone who comes off those diets has a real easy time gaining weight and a real hard time losing it.

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## Booz

i dont realy know fvck all about this type of dieting but im sure that Johan/Karnysfellin or whatever his damm name here is uses this method ......................

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## maxwkw

I did a 16 hour fast with an 8 hour eating window everyday for about 8 weeks. My training times are all over the place. twice a week I trained fasted and twice a week I trained in the evening. 

On training days my largest meal was always post workout, and on rest days my first meal was the largest.

I would say that I lost a little fat, and gained a little strength. Nothing too write home about though. I could've done the same on lots of different meal timing.


I think that intermittent fasting really shines when somebody is trying to cut a lot of fat. It's a very easy way to create a large caloric deficit. I think that for maintenance it can be very freeing to only have to worry about 2-3 meals as opposed to 6-8.

For bulking it becomes very difficult to consume enough calories in the small time frame.

----------


## gbrice75

> I've tried the fasting with the lemon water and teas........and fastly went to Burger King one night............


You realize this diet i'm doing is nothing like what you described, right?  :Smilie: 




> i dont realy know fvck all about this type of dieting but im sure that Johan/Karnysfellin or whatever his damm name here is uses this method ......................


LoL, Booz you sound angry bro ... wanna talk about it? =P

Do you know his exact name? I'll hit him up for his feedback.




> I did a 16 hour fast with an 8 hour eating window everyday for about 8 weeks. My training times are all over the place. twice a week I trained fasted and twice a week I trained in the evening. 
> 
> On training days my largest meal was always post workout, and on rest days my first meal was the largest.
> 
> *I would say that I lost a little fat, and gained a little strength. Nothing too write home about though. I could've done the same on lots of different meal timing.*
> 
> 
> I think that intermittent fasting really shines when somebody is trying to cut a lot of fat. It's a very easy way to create a large caloric deficit. I think that for maintenance it can be very freeing to only have to worry about 2-3 meals as opposed to 6-8.
> 
> For bulking it becomes very difficult to consume enough calories in the small time frame.


This is disheartening! Without sounding condescending, a few questions that beg to be answered:

What were your stats when you started, and what was your primary goal with this diet?

How true to the diet were you? Did you hit your macros? Did you cheat during the fast periods? 

How sure are you that you had your macros/calories right?

How clean was your diet, what were you eating? I realize people say you can be more lenient on this diet, but i'm not so sure I subscribe to that yet. 

Again, I don't mean to sound like i'm calling you out, maybe you did everything right and this simply wasn't for you. I'm just trying to get the full picture of what you did, and what could have potentially been wrong.

Thx for sharing!

----------


## kalspic

gbrice, if a lot of people would only do this much research before jumping into other things. much respect on all the questions and research. i havnt read all the responses, but if you were able to consume enough calories in that 8 hour time fram could you build muscle with this diet, or even loose bodyfat while adding muscle? also if its in another response you could direct me to it, but why is it an 8hour window? 

what is so important about those 8 hours?

----------


## gbrice75

> gbrice, if a lot of people would only do this much research before jumping into other things. much respect on all the questions and research. i havnt read all the responses, but if you were able to consume enough calories in that 8 hour time fram could you build muscle with this diet, or even loose bodyfat while adding muscle? also if its in another response you could direct me to it, but why is it an 8hour window? 
> 
> what is so important about those 8 hours?


Thanks Kal!! To answer your questions:

Plenty of people are using this diet to build muscle. I don't know that it would be the best 'bulk' diet in the true sense of the word, but idk why in the world anybody would want to bulk anyway. Slowly add muscle and keep bodyfat low year round, that's the only way to go IMO. That's what this diet is designed for!

It's not so much that the 8 hour feeding window is important; there are other fasting diets that have a 6 hour window, a 4 hour window, etc. What's more important is the fasting period; the leangains author feels 16 hours is optimal and fat burning during a fast peaks somewhere between the 13th and 16th hour. With that said, you can eat your food in 1 hour and go back to fasting if you wanted, but that would be very difficult assuming you're eating good quality clean food vs. McDonalds. So you're given UP TO 8 hours to eat all your macros for the day. Eat them in 1 hour or 8, your choice. The point is to stay fasted for at least 16.

Hope this helps!

----------


## kalspic

thanks! after reading some of yours and other posts it seems almost like an optimal diet to make lean gains on. so after the 13th hour of fast is when fat burning is at its peak? if you eat all your calories in 1 hour, would you burn more fat, or does it eventually level off and turn catabolic?

----------


## maxwkw

> This is disheartening! Without sounding condescending, a few questions that beg to be answered:
> 
> What were your stats when you started, and what was your primary goal with this diet?
> 
> How true to the diet were you? Did you hit your macros? Did you cheat during the fast periods? 
> 
> How sure are you that you had your macros/calories right?
> 
> How clean was your diet, what were you eating? I realize people say you can be more lenient on this diet, but i'm not so sure I subscribe to that yet. 
> ...


My goal for the diet was to recomp. Over the course of the diet I think I lost about 3-5lbs (if I remember correctly) and I definitely gained some strength in my lifts (probably 10-20lbs on each of the big 3)

I did not cheat on the fasting period at all. I did maintenance -20% on my rest days and maintenance +20% on my lifting days. I did some cardio on my off days and lifted with intensity. My diet was very clean during this period. My general layout was high protein moderate fat moderate carb on training days, and on rest days I cut carbs pretty low (all coming from fibrous veggies)

I will say that what I learned from this style of dieting is that I enjoy training fasted. It didn't seem to negatively affect my workouts at all. I also learned that cyclical dieting is the way that I like to eat. I don't need as many calories on my rest days as I do on my lifting days and when I lift hard, that I can eat big and it really helps with recovery.

(no offense taken, I understand that this style of dieting is really just coming to the forefront as of late and people have a lot of questions about its efficacy)

----------


## gbrice75

> thanks! after reading some of yours and other posts it seems almost like an optimal diet to make lean gains on.


Once I get the fat all melted off, we shall see!! 




> so after the 13th hour of fast is when fat burning is at its peak?


Like everything else, it depends on the individual. In the author's studies, he found that it was at it's peak somewhere between 13 and 16 hours.




> if you eat all your calories in 1 hour, would you burn more fat, or does it eventually level off and turn catabolic?


I would not recommend this. I was only using it as an extreme example, but it's not practical to do for any appreciable length of time IMO. Personally, I wouldn't do a feeding window any less than 4 hours. Currently, i'm going with 7 hours. With the addition of BCAA's, you shouldn't have to be too concerned with catabolism.

----------


## maxwkw

Gbrice, how is your client doing with the fasts? 

She's female correct? 

If I remember correctly Martin likes to start his female clients off with a bit of a shorter fast ~13-14 hours and work them up to a 16 hour fast. I believe that he said that a lot of his female clients do just as well with a slightly shorter fasting period

----------


## gbrice75

> My goal for the diet was to recomp. Over the course of the diet I think I lost about 3-5lbs (if I remember correctly) and I definitely gained some strength in my lifts (probably 10-20lbs on each of the big 3)
> 
> I did not cheat on the fasting period at all. I did maintenance -20% on my rest days and maintenance +20% on my lifting days. I did some cardio on my off days and lifted with intensity. My diet was very clean during this period. My general layout was high protein moderate fat moderate carb on training days, and on rest days I cut carbs pretty low (all coming from fibrous veggies)
> 
> I will say that what I learned from this style of dieting is that I enjoy training fasted. It didn't seem to negatively affect my workouts at all. I also learned that cyclical dieting is the way that I like to eat. I don't need as many calories on my rest days as I do on my lifting days and when I lift hard, that I can eat big and it really helps with recovery.
> 
> (no offense taken, I understand that this style of dieting is really just coming to the forefront as of late and people have a lot of questions about its efficacy)


Thanks for the detailed info bro. I hope i'll see better results than you did in terms of fat loss as I will be at a deficit every day (greater deficit on non-workout days obviously). I'm at 250g protein, 150g carbs, 65g fat on workout days, and 250g protein, 50g carbs, 65g fat on non-workout days, so simply dropping 400 additional calories via lowering carb intake. I am considering a carb refeed every 14 days, but at 150g/day, I am not certain yet if i'll even need it. I've never eaten very high carb to begin with as i'm carb sensitive / insulin resistant. 




> Gbrice, how is your client doing with the fasts? 
> 
> She's female correct? 
> 
> If I remember correctly Martin likes to start his female clients off with a bit of a shorter fast ~13-14 hours and work them up to a 16 hour fast. I believe that he said that a lot of his female clients do just as well with a slightly shorter fasting period


I think you have me confused with Twist? He just put a female client on IF. I'm personally running the diet myself.  :Smilie:

----------


## kalspic

if anyone can eat 3000 clean cals in one hour i would shake their hand. it sounds practical to apply in many peoples day to day lives. im subscribed to this thread

----------


## gbrice75

> if anyone can eat 3000 clean cals in one hour i would shake their hand. it sounds practical to apply in many peoples day to day lives. im subscribed to this thread


LoL, x2. I can eat 10,000 worth of fast food in 30 mins!

----------


## Twist

THIS DIET CAUSED HER TO GAIN 5 LBS SINCE THE BEGINNING. Calories have remained her normal 1,200 cals. 5lbs of fat have been put on as of today. It is evident in her physique. Started at 119 and yesterday and today she weighed 124. This will not be the result for everyone and I cannot say why it happened, all I can say is that it did. Diet changed today to a different diet. If this new diet I have for her doesn't work in the next 7 days I am putting her on keto. 

I've never once had to resort to a keto diet but she seems to be very insulin sensitive.

----------


## gbrice75

^ ^ Wow man, very strange indeed. I can see possibly maintaining and not getting any results, but gain 5 lbs... of fat nonetheless? Something is wrong here for sure. Can you trust that this girl hasn't been cheating/binging bigtime and not being honest with you? If not, she must be super insulin resistant (is that what you meant?).

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## Twist

> ^ ^ Wow man, very strange indeed. I can see possibly maintaining and not getting any results, but gain 5 lbs... of fat nonetheless? Something is wrong here for sure. Can you trust that this girl hasn't been cheating/binging bigtime and not being honest with you? If not, she must be super insulin resistant (is that what you meant?).


 I know 100% that she is not binging or eating anything not on the plan. She is more dedicated than anyone I know. This was the easiest diet I put her on lol.

Not insulin resistant. Insulin sensitive. More like carbohydrate sensitive in the sense that her body overreacts to carbohydrates and releases too much insulin or something of that nature. 

Insulin sensitivity tends to correlate with fat/weight gain and when it gets too be too much the body reacts by becoming insulin resistant to halt weight/fat gain. However I should mention that studies conflict each other on this matter. Some studies have the exact opposite result as they should and some support the data. Basically there are a host of problems (or benefits) that go along with insulin. Being the right mix of carbohydrate sensitive while also secreting the proper amount of insulin plays a major part in staying lean and gaining muscle. It's impossible for me to tell you how her body responds to insulin but I can say that this diet did not work at all and it seems that carbs really crushed her. Keep in mind that calories were 1200 and 25% carbs. It's worth noting that protein also releases insulin so that may play a part as it was 50% of the diet. 

I switched her to a diet of protein from chicken, fish, and beef; carbs are only green veggies, bananas, grapes, berries, apples; fats are only omega fish oils. This list is the only thing she can have. Let's see what happens lol. If this doesn't work I'm going the CKD route. Never had to resort to this before and its not sustainable.

----------


## -KJ-

> I know 100% that she is not binging or eating anything not on the plan..


This shows this type of diet is not for everyone. It proves every diet will not work for everyone. Im looking forward to see how your body responds in terms of fat loss and LBM loss/gain GB.
Keep up the work.

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## gbrice75

> This shows this type of diet is not for everyone. It proves every diet will not work for everyone. Im looking forward to see how your body responds in terms of fat loss and LBM loss/gain GB.
> Keep up the work.


Thanks KJ! 

Twist - sorry this happened bro. Is her head all fvcked up now over it, or did she realize she was an 'experiment'?

----------


## Twist

She knows she is an experiment but yea shes down about it. We have a costa rica deadline so that's what the letdown is about. 2 piece bathing suit lol.

----------


## maxwkw

If you really want to experiment. Have her on the exact same diet and only vary the meal timing. You'd have a better understanding of how the fasting itself affected her.

(this being said, it sucks to have to lose the weight that she gained)

----------


## Twist

It was the same diet just with fasting. Her previous diet was calorie cycling so 1 day eat a lot, two of the days eat 1200 cals and then the end of the week taper down to 300 cals or so. I forgot exactly what it is but I think I posted it in the thread earlier. But I'm not that interested in experimenting with this too much. It was worth a try but that's about it.

Btw we are down to 121lbs. 2 more to go and she will be back to where she started before the IF diet.

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## RaginCajun

i have been doing a little more research on the this diet and it looks do able. i am trying to figure how i would incorporate this diet into my training (triathlon training). with triathlon training, nutrition plays a huge role as everyone knows. my question is, with this diet, i usually use gel packs (roctane) which has carbs, electrolytes, and BCAA's, during the long bikes and runs. usually about one packet every 45 minutes or so. by doing this, will it 'break' the fast so to speak? or will i still be ok because i am enduring my body? thanks

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## gbrice75

> i have been doing a little more research on the this diet and it looks do able. i am trying to figure how i would incorporate this diet into my training (triathlon training). with triathlon training, nutrition plays a huge role as everyone knows. my question is, with this diet, i usually use gel packs (roctane) which has carbs, electrolytes, and BCAA's, during the long bikes and runs. usually about one packet every 45 minutes or so. by doing this, will it 'break' the fast so to speak? or will i still be ok because i am enduring my body? thanks


You'd be breaking your fast. I wouldn't recommend this type of dieting for triathlon training. This diet is geared more towards resistance training and actually the Leangains author isn't even huge on cardio, let alone high intensity like you'll be doing. I would not recommend high intensity cardio/training while fasted.

----------


## RaginCajun

> You'd be breaking your fast. I would recommend this type of dieting for triathlon training. This diet is geared more towards resistance training and actually the Leangains author isn't even huge on cardio, let alone high intensity like you'll be doing. I would not recommend high intensity cardio/training while fasted.


thanks, thats what i was thinking.

----------


## Twist

This diet is not for adding muscle or triathlon training. Especially not triathlon training.

GB what is your progress so far?

----------


## baseline_9

Hmmmmm

Interesting but I would need to read more before I have an opinion...

I will say that increasing volume of meals but decreasing number of meals will still create the same metabolic activity...

Layne norton has done some research into meal frequency (not as drastic as this) and he thinks that you can increase protein synthesis by decreasing meal frequency.... Kind of like 'Priming' receptors to take more on in one go...

I would link you but I'm on my iPod and it's a pain....

Layne also talks about using BCAA's to extend the timescale on the protein synthesis or sumat... Not sure off the top of my head...

At the week ends some times I go down from 6 meals to 3 meals per day... I simply eat more in those 3 meals.... Makes no difference IMO...

This whole IF thing is a different beast tho.... Interesting tho

----------


## gbrice75

> *This diet is not for adding muscle* or triathlon training. Especially not triathlon training.
> 
> GB what is your progress so far?


Not true!!! Read further into it bro. Check out leangains dot com. Bodybuilding dot com has a huge thread going (it's like 4 years old already and still current) on it and there are plenty of people there making gains. They are eating surplus and stimulating growth - why wouldn't they be able to make gains? 

I agree about the triathlon though; too much high intensity for too long. Not conducive to a fasting diet IMHO.

Down 2.5lbs in a week bro. Probably water, it was only the 1st week. This week will be a better indicator. Check out my log.  :Smilie:

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## Twist

> *Not true!!!* Read further into it bro. Check out leangains dot com. Bodybuilding dot com has a huge thread going (it's like 4 years old already and still current) on it and there are plenty of people there making gains. They are eating surplus and stimulating growth - why wouldn't they be able to make gains? 
> 
> I agree about the triathlon though; too much high intensity for too long. Not conducive to a fasting diet IMHO.
> 
> Down 2.5lbs in a week bro. Probably water, it was only the 1st week. This week will be a better indicator. Check out my log.


I'm sure some people make gains on this diet. That's not to say that they wouldn't do better on another diet though. Leaving the body high and dry for nutrients is not supportive of muscle growth and repair. 

The body has mechanisms (which I've written and posted many times about on this site) that contradict each other when it comes to fat loss and muscle gain. This is not to say that it the two cannot occur simultaneously, I'm just stating that for them to occur the right conditions have to be provided. Fasting is not that condition.

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## gbrice75

Consider the anabolic conditions fasting does create though when you finally DO break the fast. You're body couldn't be more primed for macro partitioning IMO. It's not just about the food/nutrients either - it has alot to do with certain hormones. I've researched the sh!t out of it but i'm a gimp when it comes to explaining - I won't be able to do it any justice. Spend plenty of time on leangains!  :Smilie: 

PS - There is a whole thread dedicated on Lyle McDonald's board as well.

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## Twist

I'm not debating that this diet will work for many people (as would 80% of the other diets if it were followed as closely as this one has to be - not taking a jab at you personally GB, that is EVERYONES problem). I'm just saying that there are things that go on when cutting that make the body not want to gain muscle. Fasting and weight gain are not working toward the same goal. This is probably why they have you drink BCAA constantly. Still, that doesn't account for all of the issues (such as low cell energy inhibiting protein synthesis).

----------


## gbrice75

BUMP!!

Why? Because i'm not through with this yet. I want to keep it fresh and will continue to add info and quotes to it.

----------


## PK-V

This is my third time typing this post (internet explorer is the greatest piece of ******** ever invented)

where do androgen's fit into all this?

How would you implement IF if you were training twice a day?

My plan for this recomp is

(BCAA's/protein on water) first thing in the morning before training

First meal of the day is a post workout meal

Followed by 7-8 hrs of fasting

Then (BCAA's/protein on water) before second training session

Finishing the day with my second post workout meal before sleeping

Meals will be low carb - high protein - moderate fat

Supplements use var/test/tren 

With ghrh6 for assisted eating

__________________________________________________ _________________________

as a matter of interest in relation to the top 10 dieting myths 

I found it interesting the part about the increase in awareness as a result of fasting for 36+ hours to help us catch prey

I remember one of my nutrition lecturers talk to me about on of his fasting adventures and how at sometimes during the fasting he would have amazing strength
At first I was like no way you need food every 3hrs to stay strong etc but wow 100% broscience at it's best

It was probably the increase in adrenaline/noradrenaline which gave him this boost of strength 

Also he would tell me of his best training success when he was bodybuilding

Fasting post workout (mid-day training) and having only 6+ grams of l-ornithine before sleep for gh release
he repeated this for weeks and had great results

I'm only beginning now to understand the truth behind this madness lol

----------


## oI Overdue Io

Im trying to understand IF better

Im trying to read everything( mostly from leangains) i can on it but my brain is getting overloaded with information and i cant remember it all
so i wanna make sure i understand it fully

I dont have to workout fasted correct?
I go 16hrs with no eating and then i have 8 hours to take in all my daily calorie/carbs/protien?
should i stick with eating carbs only pre/post workout?
does having a high BF% matter for this type of diet?

----------


## gbrice75

> This is my third time typing this post (internet explorer is the greatest piece of ******** ever invented)


http://www.google.com/chrome/intl/en...&utm_medium=ha




> where do androgen's fit into all this?


Can you elaborate on your question? Are you referring to AAS?




> How would you implement IF if you were training twice a day?


Why would you want to train twice a day? Just curious. It would depend on the structure of the routine. What is the first workout, and what is the second? 




> My plan for this recomp is
> 
> (BCAA's/protein on water) first thing in the morning before training
> 
> First meal of the day is a post workout meal
> 
> Followed by 7-8 hrs of fasting
> 
> Then (BCAA's/protein on water) before second training session
> ...


This really wouldn't be considered an IF type diet. The fast period wouldn't be nearly long enough to be beneficial with regards to optimal fat loss and hormonal activity. Martin Berkman even concedes that 16 hours is a compromise in order to allow a somewhat 'normal' lifestyle. Alot of people actually opt to fast longer than 16 hours.




> as a matter of interest in relation to the top 10 dieting myths 
> 
> I found it interesting the part about the increase in awareness as a result of fasting for 36+ hours to help us catch prey


So did I... I'm a sucker for that kind of stuff!! Evolution and adaptation are fvcking amazing.




> I remember one of my nutrition lecturers talk to me about on of his fasting adventures and how at sometimes during the fasting he would have amazing strength
> At first I was like no way you need food every 3hrs to stay strong etc but wow 100% broscience at it's best


No doubt in my mind




> It was probably the increase in adrenaline/noradrenaline which gave him this boost of strength


Among other things

Also he would tell me of his best training success when he was bodybuilding

Fasting post workout (mid-day training) and having only 6+ grams of l-ornithine before sleep for gh release
he repeated this for weeks and had great results

I'm only beginning now to understand the truth behind this madness lol[/QUOTE]

Same here man... learning every day.




> Im trying to understand IF better
> 
> Im trying to read everything( mostly from leangains) i can on it but my brain is getting overloaded with information and i cant remember it all
> so i wanna make sure i understand it fully
> 
> I dont have to workout fasted correct?


Correct.




> I go 16hrs with no eating and then i have 8 hours to take in all my daily calorie/carbs/protien?


Yep




> should i stick with eating carbs only pre/post workout?


You don't have to, but with fat loss as a goal and having a higher bodyfat %, it wouldn't be a bad idea




> does having a high BF% matter for this type of diet?


Nope. I would venture to guess somebody with a higher bodyfat would benefit even more and see results faster than a leaner individual

----------


## BloozieStrat

Hey all,

I'm new to the forums (as you can see from my mere 20-something posts), but I've had a recent interest in IF, so I thought I'd join the discussion.

I've just recently started considering an IF diet, and like gbrice, have been conducting a lot of research, primarily through leangains.com (thanks to gbrice btw for sending me there). I've never been a morning/breakfast person so this format is particularly appealing to me. I also feel like I'm somewhat of a slave to the kitchen as my day tends to revolve around my food (where my next meal is coming from, planning ahead, etc.). My main hesitation, however, is that I currently need about 3,000-3,300 calories/day to maintain my weight. SO, eating thousand calorie meals seems like a pretty large feat when you're eating clean. And, if you're to consume roughly 50% of your calories PW, that seems nearly impossible. I'm not really getting at a question here, I just wanted to throw in some background info.

Also, in regards to females and IF. Martin recommends that women fast for only 14 hours, rather than 16. So, Twist, that may have been an issue with your client (you went the other way, with an 18 hour fast). I think Martin's reasoning is that women typically don't handle the fast as well as men, though don't quote me on this. I just remember reading it, not too good at explaining.....

I'm sure I'll have more to say (questions, input, etc.) as I do more research...

----------


## BloozieStrat

Ah..! One question:

I know you're supposed to cycle carbs based on workout/rest days, but what about individual meals? My current diet splits protein/fat meals from protein/carb meals. Does IF do anything like this or are all three meals supposed to contain prot/carb/fat? One thing I really like about Martin's leangains diet is that all your meals are to contain real, chewable foods, i.e. no protein shakes/supplements. I've always been a big believer in cutting shakes/supplements to a minimum.

Thanks in advance for the help.

----------


## gbrice75

Welcome Bloozie! 

Relatively high caloric intake is the one drawback I see to IF dieting. As you said, getting 3000+ calories in an 8 hour window/over the course of 3 meals is going to be tough for some people. Luckily for me, I'm right in the 2500 range and have a pretty big appetite. Using 3000 calories as an example, i'd do 1500 PWO, then either a 750/750 split, or 1000/500. Taper overall calories down throughout the day. As for carbs, that depends on the goal IMO. If you're cutting bodyfat, i'd personally taper carbs down as well, with meal 3 containing very few. Not that this is right or wrong, it's just what I prefer to do.

Hope this helps!

----------


## BloozieStrat

> Welcome Bloozie! 
> 
> Relatively high caloric intake is the one drawback I see to IF dieting. As you said, getting 3000+ calories in an 8 hour window/over the course of 3 meals is going to be tough for some people. Luckily for me, I'm right in the 2500 range and have a pretty big appetite. Using 3000 calories as an example, i'd do 1500 PWO, then either a 750/750 split, or 1000/500. Taper overall calories down throughout the day. As for carbs, that depends on the goal IMO. If you're cutting bodyfat, i'd personally taper carbs down as well, with meal 3 containing very few. Not that this is right or wrong, it's just what I prefer to do.
> 
> Hope this helps!


Great, thanks for the input! I'll keep you posted when I get something a little more official put into place. My girl and I are both wanting to start an IF diet next week.

----------


## Kawigirl

> Hey all,
> 
> I'm new to the forums (as you can see from my mere 20-something posts), but I've had a recent interest in IF, so I thought I'd join the discussion.
> 
> I've just recently started considering an IF diet, and like gbrice, have been conducting a lot of research, primarily through leangains.com (thanks to gbrice btw for sending me there). I've never been a morning/breakfast person so this format is particularly appealing to me. I also feel like I'm somewhat of a slave to the kitchen as my day tends to revolve around my food (where my next meal is coming from, planning ahead, etc.). My main hesitation, however, is that I currently need about 3,000-3,300 calories/day to maintain my weight. SO, eating thousand calorie meals seems like a pretty large feat when you're eating clean. And, if you're to consume roughly 50% of your calories PW, that seems nearly impossible. I'm not really getting at a question here, I just wanted to throw in some background info.
> 
> Also,* in regards to females and IF. Martin recommends that women fast for only 14 hours, rather than 16. So, Twist, that may have been an issue with your client (you went the other way, with an 18 hour fast). I think Martin's reasoning is that women typically don't handle the fast as well as men*, though don't quote me on this. I just remember reading it, not too good at explaining.....
> 
> I'm sure I'll have more to say (questions, input, etc.) as I do more research...


There is a theory to this I would think; pending back during our evolution as a human species. I would agree in regards to my own experience. Though not to say it can't be done.

----------


## BloozieStrat

Is there a specific weight lifting protocol that you are supposed to follow while on an IF diet? Or can you just follow a standard routine? I haven't been able to find anything on leangains about this. It looks like I'm going to have to follow something similar to what gbrice is doing (fasted training in the morning and then PWO meal about 5 hours later)

Something like this:

5:30am - 10g BCAA's

5:45am - 6:45am - train

6:45am - 7:45am - cardio

8am - 10g BCAA's

10am - 10g BCAA's

11am - break my fast - PWO meal (about 50% of total calories)

3pm - Meal 2 - about 30% of total calories

7pm - Meal 3 - about 20% of total calories

7pm start fast again

----------


## gbrice75

You can follow your own workout regimen, there is no specific routine you 'must' follow. LoL you'll be on my exact schedule bro! Percentages look good to me. Do you have macros/food choices worked out as of yet?

----------


## BloozieStrat

Ha... ya, that IS your exact schedule. I just copy/pasted (being lazy).... but mine will look something like that.. lol.

No macros or food choices yet. I'll probably hammer out all the details this weekend. One thing I'm nervous about though is waiting so long to get a PWO meal in. What's been your experience with that? I feel like it's been ingrained in me that I need to get something in my system as soon as possible. Do you find that BCAA's hold you over/preserve muscle?

----------


## gbrice75

I hear you bro, that's a legitimate concern and I still struggle with it. Personally, I think it would be ideal to have your PWO meal immediately PWO. The reason I don't is because I don't want to start fasting again at 4pm, because i'd have to make it through the night (idle time at home is a big problem for me) without eating a thing. I don't want to go to bed hungry (not that I get very hungry on IF, but I'd actually prefer to go to bed satiated). Plus, i'd like to be able to eat one normal meal with my wife.

Martin designed the program and made certain compromises in order to make it work for the majority of people. He realizes that not everybody works out at 2pm, and I appreciate his willingness to 'bend the rules' in order to make the diet feasible for people like us. Just like the BCAA supplementing; technically, you're not fasting if you're ingesting BCAA's, but it's a small price to pay to keep protein synthesis in action.

I can tell you I haven't noticed any muscle loss, quite the contrary. Increased energy and strength. I guess ketones really do work.  :Smilie:  Also keep in mind that Martin says protein synthesis actually INCREASES after a few hours PWO, then drops. We're so programmed to believe that you have this 1 hour 'magic window' which, again, is asinine broscience. You're 'starved' body will be more than willing to soak up nutrients after 16 hours of fasting, a brutal workout, and subsequent cardio session. Add the BCAA's in the mix to fight off catabolism and IMO you have a pretty good plan.

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## missFit.

my first post as a new member -- I am interested in IF because I think it would suit my daily schedule- but have never heard of it and want to know more. I want to lose fat and lose it fast. I have tried keto diets before but end up feeling like I am eating too much fat bc there are not many foods to choose from. With fasting, I have always heard that your body goes into "starvation mode" and when you feed after a period of fasting, food is stored as your body's "survival method" - not knowing when the next meal will come. Is this false?

I sometimes struggle with eating a lot at once and then not eating for 5+ hours so I think IF may work for me. Im currently at best guess 20-22%bf - 121lbs - just under 5'3''. I haven't seen much in this thread on women using this diet.. thanks  :Smilie:

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## gbrice75

> my first post as a new member -- I am interested in IF because I think it would suit my daily schedule- but have never heard of it and want to know more. I want to lose fat and lose it fast. I have tried keto diets before but end up feeling like I am eating too much fat bc there are not many foods to choose from. With fasting, I have always heard that your body goes into "starvation mode" and when you feed after a period of fasting, food is stored as your body's "survival method" - not knowing when the next meal will come. Is this false?
> 
> I sometimes struggle with eating a lot at once and then not eating for 5+ hours so I think IF may work for me. Im currently at best guess 20-22%bf - 121lbs - just under 5'3''. I haven't seen much in this thread on women using this diet.. thanks


^ ^ welcome! To answer your question about starvation mode - this is true, but it's not something that happens overnight, or even over the course of several days without food for that matter. The 'flavor' of IF i'm running calls for a 16 hour fast - absolutely no starvation mode to worry about. Starvation mode is much more likely to occur due to severe caloric restriction over an extended period of time.

I believe with women 14 hour fasts are recommended, but i'd have to research that a bit more as i'm not certain. If you're interested, check out www.leangains.com to get the gist of it. 

PS - based on your stats it sounds like you are already in decent shape. What are you goals?

----------


## missFit.

About 3 months ago I was at 17%bf and 118ish and then just fell off the wagon. I'm a small girl, but I want to be a firm girl. Goals=weight doesn't matter much but I am most comfortable around 116ish. BF - I want to get low between 12 - 15%. Advice to make it happen? My diet now is pretty simple, high protein, moderate fat, low carb. This is more or less what I am eating each day....
Meal 1: 1/3c oatmeal + 1/2oz walnuts (14g) w/ splenda and cinnamon + protein (egg whites or a whey shake). 
Meal 2: 3-4oz chicken + veggies (salad or brocoli/green beans)
Meal 3: more or less same as meal 2 - sometimes when Im at work I will have a handful of almonds too
Meal 4: greek yogurt + splenda w/ cinnamon & walnuts -- so good! or whey protein shake.
Meal 5: Dinner is later around 7 or 8 (protein & veg - no carb here ). 
So I don't have many carbs in my diet as it is. I have hopped back on the wagon with exercise as well, and day 9 of no smoking! I would just like to make sure that I am using the best diet to achieve my goals in the shortest amount of time. I know things cannot happen overnight, but I sure would like them too  :Smilie:

----------


## BloozieStrat

> I hear you bro, that's a legitimate concern and I still struggle with it. Personally, I think it would be ideal to have your PWO meal immediately PWO. The reason I don't is because I don't want to start fasting again at 4pm, because i'd have to make it through the night (idle time at home is a big problem for me) without eating a thing. I don't want to go to bed hungry (not that I get very hungry on IF, but I'd actually prefer to go to bed satiated). Plus, i'd like to be able to eat one normal meal with my wife. 
> 
> *Ya, breaking the fast early in the day would wreck havoc on a personal/social/family life. I've never been all that hungry immediately after training anyway, so holding off for a few hours shouldn't bother me physically. However, mentally, it'll be something I have to get used to. But chowing down on a 1,200 calorie meal sounds like fun..! Not sure what my PWO meal is going to be yet, but I'm thinking an enormous bowl of whole wheat pasta with turkey meat sauce... ;~) then fish/flax oil for fat. Or possible Udo's 3-6-9 Oil Blend (I'm a big fan of this stuff).*
> 
> Martin designed the program and made certain compromises in order to make it work for the majority of people. He realizes that not everybody works out at 2pm, and I appreciate his willingness to 'bend the rules' in order to make the diet feasible for people like us. Just like the BCAA supplementing; technically, you're not fasting if you're ingesting BCAA's, but it's a small price to pay to keep protein synthesis in action.
> 
> I can tell you I haven't noticed any muscle loss, quite the contrary. Increased energy and strength. *I guess ketones really do work.*  Also keep in mind that Martin says protein synthesis actually INCREASES after a few hours PWO, then drops. We're so programmed to believe that you have this 1 hour 'magic window' which, again, is asinine broscience. You're 'starved' body will be more than willing to soak up nutrients after 16 hours of fasting, a brutal workout, and subsequent cardio session. Add the BCAA's in the mix to fight off catabolism and IMO you have a pretty good plan.


This is interesting. So does your body actually go into ketosis during the 16 hour fast, despite eating carbs during the 'feeding' phase? I'm excited to see how my body reacts to training fasted. I really enjoy fasted cardio, so hopefully the same applies to lifting.

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## BloozieStrat

I was reading up on the amount of protein the body could absorb at one time and came across this. I think it might be an interesting read for those interested in IF (courtesy of Tom Venuto):

Thirty grams of protein per meal seems to have become one of those "nutrition rules of thumb" that has been passed around so long that it has become accepted as an "unbreakable nutrition law." Some people claim that the human body can only digest 30 grams of protein per sitting (others claim the limit is 40 grams).

There has been a lot of research done on protein needs, although not much of it has focused specifically on the maximum amount digestible per meal. There have been studies where a large bolus of protein was eaten at one time rather than in small, frequent meals, and yet positive nitrogen balance was achieved. This would suggest that the 30 grams per meal limit does not exist and that 60 grams over three meals would allow your body to utilize the majority of that 180 grams.

30-40 grams per meal may be a pretty good rule of thumb for bodybuilding diets with an eating frequency of 5-6 small meals per day (slightly less for females). However, I have never found any research which says that the body has a "30 grams at a time" absolute limit and it doesn't seem likely that one fixed amount could apply to every person in every situation, with no accounting for body weight and activity level.

Nutritional needs - including protein - are highly variable depending on the individual. For example, are the protein needs for a 250-pound bodybuilder the same as a 105-pound ballerina? Are they the same for a 17-year-old football player and a sedentary 70-year-old? The obvious answer is no, and this is why you should look at dietary recommendations made as "absolutes" with caution. Instead, it's optimal to think in terms of customization for each individual.

The best way to figure out how much protein you need in one sitting is to first calculate your total daily protein needs. One gram per pound of bodyweight is a common recommendation (for active, strength-trained individuals), although total protein needs should be customized according to age, gender, body size, lean body mass, activity levels, energy status (deficit or surplus) and personal goals. Then take your daily needs and divide that amount by the number of meals you eat each day; usually five or six in a bodybuilding-style nutrition program.

As a bodybuilder or someone participating in regular strength training, the one gram per pound of bodyweight guideline is a pretty good estimate for daily protein needs (although some competitive bodybuilders go as high as 1.25 to 1.5 grams per pound on reduced carb pre-contest diets). If you weigh 180 pounds and you’re eating six times per day, then bingo – there’s your 30 grams. (180 grams divided by 6 meals). If you’re a 240-pound male bodybuilder, and you eat six times per day, now you’re up to 40 grams per meal.

If you’re a 125 pound female athlete, then 125 grams a day would suffice; spread over 5 meals a day, that’s 25 grams per meal. On a pre contest fitness or figure competition diet, many women eat up to 150-175 grams of protein per day, which, over five meals, is 30-35 grams per meal.

Some people think that the 30 grams of protein "rule" was started by protein supplement company marketing because thats the amount of protein they put into each serving of their product. However, looking at these examples, you can see that 30-35 grams of protein per meal is pretty close to the average amount that's consumed on a typical bodybuilding diet. My belief is that this is where the 30-gram "rule" came from - it's simply an average figure. But just because the "average" comes out to around 30 grams per meal, doesn’t mean that 30 grams is the most that you can digest.

The digestibility rate of high quality protein sources is 94 to 97% and even the protein in grains and beans is 78-85% digestible. Generally what happens with a large meal, including a large protein intake, is that the meal will simply take longer to digest, but the body will increase the rate of gastric emptying and nutrient absorption in response to the larger food intake. So while the 5 or 6 small meals a day is an accepted practice among bodybuilders, there doesn't seem to be any proof that you couldn't utilize the protein if you took it across only 3 meals instead.

On the other hand, if the total amount of protein exceeds what your body requires and if you are in a caloric surplus, you can convert the excess into body fat. Although protein is the least likely of the macronutrients to be converted to fat (due to an energy inefficient conversion process), a caloric surplus will always lead to fat deposition, even if the surplus comes from protein. In a caloric deficit, protein consumed beyond the body's needs for skeletal muscle and body tissue protein synthesis can be converted to glucose through a process called gluconeogensis.

Bottom line: Even large protein servings can be digested and absorbed, and it appears there is no 30 gram absolute limit. On the other hand, huge servings of protein at one time are not necessary for muscle growth. Beyond what is needed for growth, repair and energy, an excess of protein can get "wasted" if you are referring to being stored as fat or burned for energy.

References
1. Plant proteins in relation to human protein and amino acid nutrition. Young V. and Pellet P., American Journal of clinical Nutrition. 59. pp 1203S-1202S. 1994
2. Protein pulse feeding improves protein retention in elderly women. Arnal, M, et al. American Journal of clinical Nutrition. 69. 1202-1208. 1999

----------


## BloozieStrat

> ^ ^ welcome! To answer your question about starvation mode - this is true, but it's not something that happens overnight, or even over the course of several days without food for that matter. The 'flavor' of IF i'm running calls for a 16 hour fast - absolutely no starvation mode to worry about. Starvation mode is much more likely to occur due to severe caloric restriction over an extended period of time.
> 
> *I believe with women 14 hour fasts are recommended,* but i'd have to research that a bit more as i'm not certain. If you're interested, check out www.leangains.com to get the gist of it. 
> 
> PS - based on your stats it sounds like you are already in decent shape. What are you goals?


Martin does recommend 14 hour fasts for women. I double checked that yesterday

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## gbrice75

> This is interesting. *So does your body actually go into ketosis during the 16 hour fast*, despite eating carbs during the 'feeding' phase? I'm excited to see how my body reacts to training fasted. I really enjoy fasted cardio, so hopefully the same applies to lifting.


Definitely not! Sorry, I don't want to cause any confusion. Ketones are by-products that are produced when fatty acids are broken down for energy. Your body can still produce and utilize ketones without being in ketosis. Ketosis is just the 'full blown' version; i.e. you are running on a fat burning metabolism because glucose simply isn't present. 

During a fast, our bodies will burn bodyfat (which will produce ketones) as well as dip into glycogen stores in both the liver and muscle. We will never get into full blown ketosis after only 16 hours, however that is not the design of IF, so that's a good thing.

Hope this helps.

Bloozie - good info bro, and I agree with just about all of it. Did you happen to catch Baseline's post about the same? http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-a-single-meal

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## BloozieStrat

> Definitely not! Sorry, I don't want to cause any confusion. Ketones are by-products that are produced when fatty acids are broken down for energy. Your body can still produce and utilize ketones without being in ketosis. Ketosis is just the 'full blown' version; i.e. you are running on a fat burning metabolism because glucose simply isn't present. 
> 
> During a fast, our bodies will burn bodyfat (which will produce ketones) as well as dip into glycogen stores in both the liver and muscle. We will never get into full blown ketosis after only 16 hours, however that is not the design of IF, so that's a good thing.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> *Definitely! Thanks for clarifying man. I was a little confused initially, but this makes sense.*
> 
> Bloozie - good info bro, and I agree with just about all of it. Did you happen to catch Baseline's post about the same? http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-a-single-meal


*Just read Baseline's post. Good Stuff..!! Thanks bro!*

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## BloozieStrat

> About 3 months ago I was at 17%bf and 118ish and then just fell off the wagon. I'm a small girl, but I want to be a firm girl. Goals=weight doesn't matter much but I am most comfortable around 116ish. BF - I want to get low between 12 - 15%. Advice to make it happen? My diet now is pretty simple, high protein, moderate fat, low carb. This is more or less what I am eating each day....
> Meal 1: 1/3c oatmeal + 1/2oz walnuts (14g) w/ splenda and cinnamon + protein (egg whites or a whey shake). 
> Meal 2: 3-4oz chicken + veggies (salad or brocoli/green beans)
> Meal 3: more or less same as meal 2 - sometimes when Im at work I will have a handful of almonds too
> Meal 4: greek yogurt + splenda w/ cinnamon & walnuts -- so good! or whey protein shake.
> Meal 5: Dinner is later around 7 or 8 (protein & veg - no carb here ). 
> So I don't have many carbs in my diet as it is. I have hopped back on the wagon with exercise as well, and day 9 of no smoking! I would just like to make sure that I am using the best diet to achieve my goals in the shortest amount of time. I know things cannot happen overnight, but I sure would like them too


This actually looks really good to me. I think if you keep up with the workout out, you'll be there in no time! And CONGRATS on day 9 of no smoking..!! Good stuff!

If I was being critical... You're carbs may be a little low, as carbs are the most muscle sparing macro nutrient. So, if you train in the morning, I would try to have carbs before and after training. Then the rest of your day can be protein/fat meals. Also, nuts (almonds, walnuts, etc.) are very calorie dense, even more so than chocolate. So maybe try to supplement with something like fish/flax oil isntead.. Just my .02... I would wait for one of the 'diet gurus' to critique for additional advice...

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## baseline_9

BUMP

I am going to be following this diet soon...

Currently sitting at 14% BF and around 190 lbs (although Im throwing the scales away with this diet and focusing on the mirror and skinfolds) and I want to get it down to single digit and KEEP IT THERE this time....

I will be using AAS, Clen and T3 although I will not discuss dosages or compounds on the open board


My plan is to do something like this;


*THE DIET*

This diet is pretty much the same amount of food im currently eating minus 100g Rice which is about 250 calories and I have currently hit a weigh gain plateau so im hoping that will put me in an approximate 250 calorie defecate (250 x 7 = 1750 cals per week.... plus the cardio should get me to around a 4750 calorie defecate each week)


05.45 - Wake - 15g BCAA's

06.00 - Weight Training

*FAST ENDS*

07.15 - 200g Brown Basmati Rice, 100g Oats, 16oz Chicken, 60g Whey

12.00 - 100g Brown Basmati Rice, 8oz Chicken

15.00 - 12oz Extra Lean Mince Beef or Lean Steak, 100g Brown Basmati Rice, 30g Casein Powder

*FAST BEGINS*

17.00 - 10g BCAA's

17.15 - 45 min cardio session (10g BCAA's during cardio) (6 days per week)



*The Training Program*

My weight training will be a Low Volume, Very High Intensity style similar to Yates' program... Normally about 5-6 sets per bodypart... 




I believe that Yates is right when he says flick the switch to Fat loss.... By this I/he is referring to creating a 500 calorie defecate overnight, put all cardio in place and start burning fat while your metabolism is still going crazy.

So the Diet, Cardio and Drugs will all be in place from day 1...


I plan to cut for 8-12 weeks (depending on how I look/Feel)




I will keep you guys updated on my results...

Please discuss  :Smilie: 


Forgot to mention I will be having no cheat meals except a Ribeye Steak on a Saturday with a baked potato

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## -KJ-

Good to see you back logging bro...

Look forward to seeing your cut this time around with your new mass gains  :Smilie:

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## SlimmerMe

Yep Base is back~
Good luck with your new plan and I can just see the steaks sizzling....

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## gbrice75

LOVE IT!!! The schedule (you worked it out nicely), the diet (love the beef meal as the last before fasting again, good planning)... as long as you stick to the fast (and that means NOTHING but water, and the BCAA's you're taking before/during cardio, which is a good idea), I think you will achieve excellent results on this diet. 

Please keep this thread posted, or start a log of your own - in either case, you know I have a soft spot for IF so i'm very anxious to watch your progress.  :Wink:

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## baseline_9

> Good to see you back logging bro...
> 
> Look forward to seeing your cut this time around with your new mass gains


Me two




> Yep Base is back~
> Good luck with your new plan and I can just see the steaks sizzling....


Yep, been off the boards for a bit, focussing on working and eating  :Smilie: 




> LOVE IT!!! The schedule (you worked it out nicely), the diet (love the beef meal as the last before fasting again, good planning)... as long as you stick to the fast (and that means NOTHING but water, and the BCAA's you're taking before/during cardio, which is a good idea), I think you will achieve excellent results on this diet. 
> 
> Please keep this thread posted, or start a log of your own - in either case, you know I have a soft spot for IF so i'm very anxious to watch your progress.



I think the plan looks ok.... I defo up for thing advise on this IF tho....Even tho there are no real rules 

I will probably start a log... a brand new one and show guys what the IF can achieve.... If it is as good as it says it is then my results will show that as I wont be going off the diet at all. Gotta stay sharp to look sharp.... rite?

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## gbrice75

What do you plan to do for your 45 min cardio sessions?

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## baseline_9

> What do you plan to do for your 45 min cardio sessions?


Stepmill or high incline power walking on the treadmill.

The stepmill is evil... That thing burns some serious calories. I will probably alternate between the two to keep my legs from burning out from the stepmill

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## Sgt. Hartman

> Stepmill or high incline power walking on the treadmill.
> 
> *The stepmill is evil*... That thing burns some serious calories. I will probably alternate between the two to keep my legs from burning out from the stepmill


^^^Agreed. I had been using it recently for cardio while cutting and I hate/love it. I used to watch people on it going at a snail's pace and thought they were just wasting their time going that slow. LOL. Then I started using it. It is impossible to go slow enough on that damn thing to not get a good cardio WO. 45min on level 6 kicks my ass. 

Good to see you back in the diet section.  :Smilie:

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## gbrice75

Awesome bro... LOVE the stepmill, use it every day!! Best cardio in the gym IMO. And yes, it's an evil beast!! I run through the programs @ 10 mins each, between levels 8 and 10 depending on how I'm feeling.

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## overnightworker21

Any more updates on your progress Gbrice? I am very interested in this diet. I have been led to believe that the 5-7 meals a day lifestyle was the only way to go to get lean and build muscle. My eyes are opening! Very tempted to start this type of diet after all the reading I have been doing, due to you (Thanks!). Only I will be doing my work out/cardio in the morning around 6-7 am. May be difficult with the down time at the house not eating as you mentioned earlier.

And to think I just heard about this diet today while searching google for info for a persuasive paper I'm writing for English Comp. on why you should eat at least 5 times a day when I came across an article about IF diets. Then I searched this forum where I consider you guys the experts on this diet and exercise only to start learning this IF diet is not BS. Guess I can't in good conscious write my paper on that anymore...

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## gbrice75

> Any more updates on your progress Gbrice? I am very interested in this diet. I have been led to believe that the 5-7 meals a day lifestyle was the only way to go to get lean and build muscle. My eyes are opening! Very tempted to start this type of diet after all the reading I have been doing, due to you (Thanks!). Only I will be doing my work out/cardio in the morning around 6-7 am. May be difficult with the down time at the house not eating as you mentioned earlier.
> 
> And to think I just heard about this diet today while searching google for info for a persuasive paper I'm writing for English Comp. on why you should eat at least 5 times a day when I came across an article about IF diets. Then I searched this forum where I consider you guys the experts on this diet and exercise only to start learning this IF diet is not BS. Guess I can't in good conscious write my paper on that anymore...


Thx bro! You can follow my current progress here http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...2#.TppUhJsUqOk

However I haven't been doing IF dieting for quite a few months. I loved it and will be doing it again, but i'm currently on a very specific regimen that requires me to eat in the more traditional BB style. That said, 5-7 small meals/day definitely isn't the only way to achieve your goals.

Keep an eye open for Baseline who may be starting IF, if he hasn't done so already. He mentioned he may start a log/thread.

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## baseline_9

> Thx bro! You can follow my current progress here http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...2#.TppUhJsUqOk
> 
> However I haven't been doing IF dieting for quite a few months. I loved it and will be doing it again, but i'm currently on a very specific regimen that requires me to eat in the more traditional BB style. That said, 5-7 small meals/day definitely isn't the only way to achieve your goals.
> 
> Keep an eye open for Baseline who may be starting IF, if he hasn't done so already. He mentioned he may start a log/thread.


My life is mad ATM because I am gutting and re-doing my whole bathroom.... However the diet will begin 2moro morning.... Look out for the log 2nite.

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## gbrice75

> my life is mad atm because i am gutting and re-doing my whole bathroom.... However the diet will begin 2moro morning.... Look out for the log 2nite.


^^ nice!!!!

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## joshh

Hi guys

I have been on keto for a while now and have seen some good results but I'm wanting to give IF a shot. My diet is currently 1800-2000 cals, roughly 250g protein/180g fat/0 carbs. Stats are 163lbs, 5'9 and not 100% sure on BF%.
I'll be going with 1pm PWO, 4pm and 9pm meals, so 16/8hr fast/feed. I could do an 18/6hr fast/feed, would this be better?
Should I stick to 2000cal? Or should I lower this?
I'm also unsure whether my meals should be high protein and carbs, or high protein and fat.

Thanks

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## joshh

I just cam across this, based on IF. Do you agree GB?



Fat:

The maximum amount of fat eaten per day is 30 Grams. It doesn't matter where the fat comes from, as long as 10 of these grams are in the form of Omega-3 Fish Oil.

Protein:

To determine the minimum amount of protein per day, you multiply your weight by 1.25. Our 200 lb person will need a minimum of 250g of protein to preserve muscle. Sources don't really matter, just be sure to be mindful that you don't exceed the fat limit. Chicken, very lean red meat, fat free cheese and protein powder (whey or casein) are excellent choices.

Carbohydrates:

Carbohydrates make up the remaining calories in your diet. Once again, sources don't matter, just be sure not to exceed the 30g fat limit and be you want to keep sugar below 100 grams. So in our sample person, he is getting 270 calories from fat and 1000 calories from protein. With the caloric goal on lifting days being 3500, that leaves him with 2230 calories left for carbs. Divide 2230 by 4 and you come up with a maximum carbohydrate amount of ~558 grams.

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## Doctapeppa

> Hi guys
> 
> I have been on keto for a while now and have seen some good results but I'm wanting to give IF a shot. My diet is currently 1800-2000 cals, roughly 250g protein/180g fat/0 carbs. Stats are 163lbs, 5'9 and not 100% sure on BF%.
> I'll be going with 1pm PWO, 4pm and 9pm meals, so 16/8hr fast/feed. I could do an 18/6hr fast/feed, would this be better?
> Should I stick to 2000cal? Or should I lower this?
> I'm also unsure whether my meals should be high protein and carbs, or high protein and fat.
> 
> Thanks


Lifting days are supposed to be high carb and low fat with the majority of your carbs PWO and tapered down throughout the day. Rest days are low carb and moderate fat. Protein high on both days. 18-6 and 16-8 won't make much of a difference. Do what's comfortable for you.

For the calories go to google and type in "intermittent fasting calculator" and the first link should be "ifcalc" (I can't post links here yet) fill it out and it will give you what you need.

Good luck.

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## joshh

well according to that ifcalc, fats should be higher than carbs on both workout and rest days..

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## Doctapeppa

Hmmm. Interesting. Well, you can move the slider to get it how you want. I was a client of Martin and he had me on 40/45/15 c/p/f on training days and 25/50/25 on rest days.

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## gbrice75

> I just cam across this, based on IF. Do you agree GB?


Meh, not really. I never agree with absolutes like 'must be 30g fat' - so for a 150lb person and a 250lb person both running this diet, they'd both have equal fat intake? That's crazy.

I'm ok with the protein... I usually calculate 1.5g/lb LBM.




> Hmmm. Interesting. Well, you can move the slider to get it how you want. I was a client of Martin and he had me on 40/45/15 c/p/f on training days and 25/50/25 on rest days.


^^ this. Different strokes for different folks. People have different bodies, different metabolisms, and as such will have differing caloric/macro requirements.

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## Greyeyes

Im currently giving the leangains approach a try and am impressed with the results so far. I only lift but im planning on throwing some cardio in here once the results begin to taper off. I lift early am like 5-530 completely fasted. My fasts begin at 8pm and end at noon every day. Im very strict with this. When i start the cardio im up in the air as to when i should do it. Should i switch up and do fasted cardio in the am when i usually do my lifting and then lift in the evening after work or vice versa? Does it really matter? My concern is losing muscle mass because if I do cardio when i usually lift i wouldnt be eating until 6 hours later. Ive done some researching and have read opinions that go both ways but do any of you have any experience with this? Martin Berkhan doesnt push cardio with his program but i know my body and my metabolism and i think it will benefit me. Any opinion or advice greatly appreciated.

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## gbrice75

I have done cardio before a workout, but not fasted. I have done both fasted, separately. I would not recommend fasted cardio followed by a fasted workout. And in either case - cardio, workout, or both - BCAA's prior for sure. And after, if you don't eat a PWO meal right away (I didn't either when I ran Leangains)

----------


## Greyeyes

Alright, so ive decided to stop lean gains for right now because of not being able to fit the cardio into my evenings so instead im lifting fasted and following that with light cardio and then fasted cardio on two of the days i dont lift. All this is of course followed by a good solid food meal. Im gonna see how it goes and hopefully i can drop some BF percentages in the next 3 or so months and then afterwards i will go back on lean gains.

----------


## gbrice75

How long is your fast with this 'modified' plan? Note if it isn't long enough, you may be short changing yourself of the benefits of a fast, and essentially just having a sub par, unfuled workout.

----------


## Greyeyes

Hi, on lean gains i eat starting at noon and finish my last meal between 7 and 8 pm. I was very strict with this. I wont eat past 8 pm now either and like right now it is720pm and i finished dinner about a half hour ago. I wake up at 430 am and am in the gym by 530. I usually spend a good 40 to 45 minutes when lifting only. The biggest difference now is the addition of cardio on off days and post workout followed and then eating my PWM between 7 and 730 am instead of at noon. I like lean gains and will continue to implementimplement when necessary like on days i dont go to the gym.

----------


## gbrice75

I'm too lazy to do the math, my mind hurts lol! Please just tell me how many hours your fast goes on for!!  :Wink:

----------


## Greyeyes

lol. right on dude. 16 hours total with a workout at the 9.5 hour mark.

----------


## gbrice75

lol thanks!! 16 hours is perfect, basically you're still following the Leangains protocol.

----------


## tbody66

I don't know about all that, but I've been skipping breakfast for a month now, have a big glass of water and a cup of coffee.

----------


## baseline_9

Dnt know wether to switch over to this for just over 3 weeks up untill xmass....

hmmmmmm

Ive just dropped my carbs in half in one go, bang from 400/450 down to 200, added T3 for the first time and I can say im shocked after only 10 days how much leaner I have gotten... I cant w8 to see what the next 3 weeks brings as I increase cardio

I may save this IF'ing for my final get ripped cut next year before summer and show what I believe it can achieve

----------


## tbody66

Eat clean, count calories, drink water, workout hard and treat yourself to a nice twelve week cycle of AAS for Christmas and another at the 4th of July and you will accomplish great things!

----------


## Greyeyes

I like this diet and will stick with it until i reach my goal of 10% BF. What do you all think about this diet with AAS? And Baseline, I read your IF log that you postponed and am curious as to what youre doing now. just curious because it seems by your post above that you are still dieting.

----------


## tbody66

Well, liking a diet is a great start, the best diet you can have is one you will stick with! How often are you posting pictures?

----------


## Greyeyes

I'm brand new to the forum. I haven't posted any pics.

----------


## baseline_9

> I like this diet and will stick with it until i reach my goal of 10% BF. What do you all think about this diet with AAS? And Baseline, I read your IF log that you postponed and am curious as to what youre doing now. just curious because it seems by your post above that you are still dieting.


I'm just doing a standard diet... Nothing fancey

300g Protein
200g Carbs
50g Fat (approx)

Cardio 4/5 times per week 35 mins currently, going up 5 mins per week...

Diet ends 24th Dec

----------


## tbody66

Greyeyes, POST SOME PICS.

I have three and a half weeks to drop some bodyfat and get my muscle completely back so I can get crazy strong after a massive feast on J.C.'s Birthday!

----------


## abbot138

For me the best thing about IF and what people often overlook is that your strength actually increases while dieting. I have tried just about every form of cutting and this is the first one where Im not just maintaining Im getting stronger. About 2 months in I tried to switch back to standard 6 meal plan and ALL of my lifts went down, not a lot, but they went down. Went back to IF and I was good to go.....Ive been doing 16/8, just because its what fits my lifestyle best, and I have to train in the evening so I have 2 small meals with 20% of my daily calories in each, and then 1 big feast PWO with 60% of my cals. But I know several people who train fasted and have ZERO issues with energy or strength. I would do the same but my daily routine jsut doesnt allow it............In regards to what Marcus asked, I would see it being an issue for larger individuals. Im 200lbs around 10%bf, so I only eat about 2800 calories a day, with about 1700 of those in my PWO meal, I could probably do about 2000 in that meal, but any more than that would be a challenge (or as stated earlier would lead to calorie-dense junk food). So for you beasts up around 250+ and 12%bf or less, probably wouldnt work.

----------


## RaginCajun

Nice info abbot183, I just started this Sunday and am liking it so far. Only problem I have at the moment is hunger pains but I read this should subside soon. Trying to cut

----------


## Dukkit

Havent read the whole thread. 

I will just post how I did my IF protocal. 

I fasted 14 hours. Ate/slept during the other 10. 

I DID have a whole food meal before the gym. That was my fast breaking meal. Usually just Whey and Oats. 

Then Id basically eat whatever I wanted after the gym... until I went to bed. I did try to keep it *clean*. But some cookie dough, or ice cream, or whatnot would find its way in there somehow. lol. 

I got pretty lean, pretty quick. 

Ill post a pic of the results. I dont have any real before pics. But I got lean... thats all you need to know.

Attachment 118824

----------


## Dukkit

> Nice info abbot183, I just started this Sunday and am liking it so far. Only problem I have at the moment is hunger pains but I read this should subside soon. Trying to cut


Black coffee helps hunger pains and is allowed during the fast.

----------


## Dukkit

Purpose of the fast isnt just about starving yourself. Its also about not causing any insulin spikes so that your body keeps using fat cells for energy. Black caffeinated coffee produces a negligible response *while in a fasted state. (from the studies Ive read)

----------


## RaginCajun

Thanks dukkkit, black coffee (w/ splenda) is the only thing keeping me sane!

----------


## gbrice75

Dukkit, you definitely got lean there but personally I like the sexy beast you are today!!  :Wink:  lol!

----------


## Dukkit

> Dukkit, you definitely got lean there but personally I like the sexy beast you are today!!  lol!


Perv. Knew that was you outside in the bushes the other night

----------


## gbrice75

> Perv. Knew that was you outside in the bushes the other night


You know you enjoyed being peeped out...

----------


## tbody66

I'm really diggin' this philosophy. I don't have a problem with regular fasting anyway, so it would be easy for me to incorporate it. Plus, if strength goes up and you get shredded, how could you go wrong?

----------


## gbrice75

TB - if you're considering trying it, do yourself a solid and check out Leangains dot com. Martin has a TON of useful info on his site.

----------


## tbody66

Thanks GB. I do love the sounds of it. I've made a deal with StEM after Christmas for him to write my diet and me to write his workout, see if we can't fix each others body better than we fix our own. It's so much easier for me to make someone else do something that it is to make myself!

----------


## gbrice75

> Thanks GB. I do love the sounds of it. I've made a deal with StEM after Christmas for him to write my diet and me to write his workout, see if we can't fix each others body better than we fix our own. It's so much easier for me to make someone else do something that it is to make myself!


Stem, eh? I guess i'm yesterday's news!!!  :Frown: 

lol, i'm just kidding bro - Stem is a solid guy and knows his stuff, he won't steer you wrong!

----------


## tbody66

Well, since you can't seem to find your way to my thread... I've posted updated pics and need your eye to tell me how much progress I made in 12 days. Also, you are currently snuggled up to Nark, so there was nothing I could have offered you in return for your services and you know how I hate to "owe" you!

----------


## gbrice75

> Well, since you can't seem to find your way to my thread... I've posted updated pics and need your eye to tell me how much progress I made in 12 days. Also, you are currently snuggled up to Nark, so there was nothing I could have offered you in return for your services and you know how I hate to "owe" you!


As you already know, i've found my way back!!

----------


## tbody66

> As you already know, i've found my way back!!


I missed you, thanks for taking the time to stop by, your wisdom, insight and eye are always encouraged and welcomed!

----------


## RaginCajun

in regards to IF. when you were running this type of diet, did you ever get the chills and feel cold?

----------


## gbrice75

^^ never. Is this happening while you're fasted? If so, how many hours into the fast?

----------


## RaginCajun

> ^^ never. Is this happening while you're fasted? If so, how many hours into the fast?


it happened this morning about 8-10:30, so the 12-14 hour mark. i am not sick nor do i feel bad. i did have some black coffee that helped with the hunger pains and after that, i kept getting the chills. i also am sweating bad underneath my arms, no wheres else. i am still trying to get my body use to this type of feeding. sometimes i feel as if i am a diabetic or something, but have been tested and i am not. this is day 12 on it so maybe my body just needs to adapt more.

----------


## tbody66

I hope that's all it is.

----------


## RaginCajun

> I hope that's all it is.


just broke my fast, feel so much better and full of energy!

----------


## joshh

going to give IF another shot, how does the diet look?



08.30am - Wake - 10g BCAA's

09.00am - Weight Training
________________________________________________

10.00am - 400g chicken 115/0/7/525, 250g brown basmati rice 9/64/5/340 | 124/64/12/865

01.00pm - 175g tuna 29/1/15/254, 45g whey 36/3/1/165, 75g oats 10/40/7/285 | 75/44/23/504

06.00pm - 200g kangaroo 46/2/0/196, 125g brown rice 4/36/5/211 | 50/38/5/407
________________________________________________

08.00pm - 10g BCAA's

08.30pm - 1 hour low intensity cardio 

total 249/146/40/1776

----------


## joshh

should i cut out the 1 hour cardio seeing as i'm on 1800cal?

----------


## gbrice75

Bumping this since IF seems to be seeing a resurgence on this board lately!  :Smilie:

----------


## slfmade

^^^That's my fault.lol

----------


## baseline_9

Courtesy of PubMed and JnutBio.... If you wan full papers search for the titles in google, most are pay per view however...


*1 - Beneficial effects of intermittent fasting and caloric restriction on the cardiovascular and cerebrovascular systems*

*Intermittent fasting (IF; reduced meal frequency) and caloric restriction (CR) extend lifespan and increase resistance to age-related diseases in rodents and monkeys and improve the health of overweight humans. Both IF and CR enhance cardiovascular and brain functions and improve several risk factors for coronary artery disease and stroke including a reduction in blood pressure and increased insulin sensitivity.* Cardiovascular stress adaptation is improved and heart rate variability is increased in rodents maintained on an IF or a CR diet. Moreover, rodents maintained on an IF regimen exhibit increased resistance of heart and brain cells to ischemic injury in experimental models of myocardial infarction and stroke. The beneficial effects of IF and CR result from at least two mechanisms — reduced oxidative damage and increased cellular stress resistance. Recent findings suggest that some of the beneficial effects of IF on both the cardiovascular system and the brain are mediated by brain-derived neurotrophic factor signaling in the brain. Interestingly, cellular and molecular effects of IF and CR on the cardiovascular system and the brain are similar to those of regular physical exercise, suggesting shared mechanisms. A better understanding of the cellular and molecular mechanisms by which IF and CR affect the blood vessels and heart and brain cells will likely lead to novel preventative and therapeutic strategies for extending health span.



*2 - Effect of intermittent fasting and refeeding on insulin action in healthy men*

Insulin resistance is currently a major health problem. This may be because of a marked decrease in daily physical activity during recent decades combined with constant food abundance. This lifestyle collides with our genome, which was most likely selected in the late Paleolithic era (50,000–10,000 BC) by criteria that favored survival in an environment characterized by fluctuations between periods of feast and famine. The theory of thrifty genes states that these fluctuations are required for optimal metabolic function. We mimicked the fluctuations in eight healthy young men [25.0 ± 0.1 yr (mean ± SE); body mass index: 25.7 ± 0.4 kg/m2] by subjecting them to intermittent fasting every second day for 20 h for 15 days. Eugly***ic hyperinsulinemic (40 mU·min–1·m–2) clamps were performed before and after the intervention period. Subjects maintained body weight (86.4 ± 2.3 kg; coefficient of variation: 0.8 ± 0.1%). Plasma free fatty acid and -hydroxybutyrate concentrations were 347 ± 18 and 0.06 ± 0.02 mM, respectively, after overnight fast but increased (P < 0.05) to 423 ± 86 and 0.10 ± 0.04 mM after 20-h fasting, confirming that the subjects were fasting. Insulin-mediated whole body glucose uptake rates increased from 6.3 ± 0.6 to 7.3 ± 0.3 mg·kg–1·min–1 (P = 0.03), and insulin-induced inhibition of adipose tissue lipolysis was more prominent after than before the intervention (P = 0.05). After the 20-h fasting periods, plasma adiponectin was increased compared with the basal levels before and after the intervention (5,922 ± 991 vs. 3,860 ± 784 ng/ml, P = 0.02).* This experiment is the first in humans to show that intermittent fasting increases insulin-mediated glucose uptake rates*, and the findings are compatible with the thrifty gene concept.




*3 - Weight loss is greater with consumption of large morning meals and fat-free mass is preserved with large evening meals in women on a controlled weight reduction regimen.*

The purpose of this study was to determine whether meal ingestion pattern [large morning meals (AM) vs. large evening meals (PM)] affects changes in body weight, body composition or energy utilization during weight loss. Ten women completed a metabolic ward study of 3-wk weight stabilization followed by 12 wk of weight loss with a moderately energy restricted diet [mean energy intake +/- SD = 107 +/- 6 kJ/(kg.d)] and regular exercise. The weight loss phase was divided into two 6-wk periods. During period 1, 70% of daily energy intake was taken as two meals in the AM (n = 4) or in the PM (n = 6). Subjects crossed over to the alternate meal time in period 2. Both weight loss and fat-free mass loss were greater with the AM than the PM meal pattern: 3.90 +/- 0.19 vs. 3.27 +/- 0.26 kg/6 wk, P < 0.05, and 1.28 +/- 0.14 vs. 0.25 +/- 0.16 kg/6 wk, P < 0.001, respectively. Change in fat mass and loss of body energy were affected by order of meal pattern ingestion. The PM pattern resulted in greater loss of fat mass in period 1 (P < 0.01) but not in period 2. Likewise, resting mid-afternoon fat oxidation rate was higher with the PM pattern in period 1 (P < 0.05) but not in period 2, corresponding with the fat mass changes. To conclude,* ingestion of larger AM meals resulted in slightly greater weight loss, but ingestion of larger PM meals resulted in better maintenance of fat-free mass*. Thus, incorporation of larger PM meals in a weight loss regimen may be important in minimizing the loss of fat-free mass.


*4 - Chronobiological aspects of weight loss in obesity: effects of different meal timing regimens.*

A series of short- and long-lasting experimental protocols of *different meal timing regimes were performed* in obese subjects to assess the possible occurrence of (1) a different metabolic fate of nutrients; (2) a phase shift of circadian rhythms of metabolic and hormonal parameters strictly related to nutrition; (3) a different weight loss. (A) In a short-lasting protocol (3 days) 15 obese subjects were fed a hypocaloric diet (684 kcal/day) (a) *at 10 hr only, (b) at 1800 hr only; (c) at 1000 hr, 1400 hr and 1800 hr, or (d) studied during a 36-hr fasting*. Measures of calorimetry (R.Q., CHO and lipid oxidations, energy expenditure), hormones (plasma cortisol, insulin, HGH, urinary catecholamines), urinary electrolytes (Na, K) and vital parameters (body temperature, heart rate, blood pressure) were carried out at 4-hr intervals for three days. *A significantly higher lipid oxidation and a lower CHO oxidation were documented with the meal at 1800 hr, in comparison with the meal at 1000 hr*. CHO and lipid oxidation circadian rhythms appeared the most affected by meal timing. (B) *In a long-lasting protocol (18 days) 10 obese subjects were fed the same hypocaloric diet* (a) at 1000 hr only and (b) at 1800 hr only. Calorimetric measures were performed every other day for 2 hr preceding each meal. Before and after the 18-days single meal period, body temperature, plasma cortisol, PRL and TSH were recorded (delta t = 4 hr). *A higher lipid oxidation and a lower CHO oxidation were again demonstrated with the meal at 18 hr*. Minimal changes of hormonal circadian rhythms were documented suggesting that the hypothalamus-hypophysis network is scarcely affected by meal timing. *Weight loss did not vary in both short- and long-term protocol.*


*5 - Greater weight loss and hormonal changes after 6 months diet with carbohydrates eaten mostly at dinner.*

_Assuming controll and experiment were both the same diet this hold some weight.... I have not got the full paper_

*This study was designed to investigate the effect of a low-calorie diet with carbohydrates eaten mostly at dinner* on anthropometric, hunger/satiety, biochemical, and inflammatory parameters. Hormonal secretions were also evaluated. *Seventy-eight police officers (BMI >30) were randomly assigned to experimental (carbohydrates eaten mostly at dinner) or control weight loss diets for 6 months*. On day 0, 7, 90, and 180 blood samples and hunger scores were collected every 4 h from 0800 to 2000 hours. Anthropometric measurements were collected throughout the study. *Greater weight loss, abdominal circumference, and body fat mass reductions were observed in the experimental diet in comparison to controls. Hunger scores were lower and greater improvements in fasting glucose, average daily insulin concentrations, and homeostasis model assessment for insulin resistance (HOMA(IR)), T-cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol, high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol, C-reactive protein (CRP), tumor necrosis factor-α (TNF-α), and interleukin-6 (IL-6) levels were observed in comparison to controls*. The experimental diet modified daily leptin and adiponectin concentrations compared to those observed at baseline and to a control diet. A simple dietary manipulation of carbohydrate distribution appears to have additional benefits when compared to a conventional weight loss diet in individuals suffering from obesity. It might also be beneficial for individuals suffering from insulin resistance and the metabolic syndrome. Further research is required to confirm and clarify the mechanisms by which this relatively simple diet approach enhances satiety, leads to better anthropometric outcomes, and achieves improved metabolic response, compared to a more conventional dietary approach.

----------


## slfmade

Thanks Base. Good Read!

----------


## Bertuzzi

Wow.... did I just read this whole thread start to finish.... yup, I did! 

This is awesome.... LOVE the idea. GB, I know we talked a few weeks back about how fat I let myself get and I never did get around to sending those pics.... but I spent the morning in the gym for the first time on over 6 months!! I slapped together a bunch of meals for today and planned on getting my shit together.... now after reading this thread I am gonna do this diet up starting tomorrow and to be accountable to my fat ass, I am gonna start a thread show pics of all my fatness and put this bitch to the test for 8-12 weeks. My goal is to drop 40lbs of fat and I may or may not use a custom made cutting supplement... This should be fun considering I am in the high 20% BF at the moment.

I am super excited to try this out... Its on like Donkey Kong!

----------


## slfmade

> Wow.... did I just read this whole thread start to finish.... yup, I did! 
> 
> This is awesome.... LOVE the idea. GB, I know we talked a few weeks back about how fat I let myself get and I never did get around to sending those pics.... but I spent the morning in the gym for the first time on over 6 months!! I slapped together a bunch of meals for today and planned on getting my shit together.... now after reading this thread I am gonna do this diet up starting tomorrow and to be accountable to my fat ass, I am gonna start a thread show pics of all my fatness and put this bitch to the test for 8-12 weeks. My goal is to drop 40lbs of fat and I may or may not use a custom made cutting supplement... This should be fun considering I am in the high 20% BF at the moment.
> 
> I am super excited to try this out... Its on like Donkey Kong!


Good Luck. I would definitely start a log. It will help keep you accountable to your diet and training. There's been times that I didn't want to go to the Gym, but I got off my ass and went anyway because the last thing I wanted to do was tell everyone on my log that I wimped out. It's helped a great deal for me. I don't know why more people don't do it!

----------


## gbrice75

> Courtesy of PubMed and JnutBio.... If you wan full papers search for the titles in google, most are pay per view however...
> 
> 
> *1 - Beneficial effects of intermittent fasting and caloric restriction on the cardiovascular and cerebrovascular systems*
> 
> *Intermittent fasting (IF; reduced meal frequency) and caloric restriction (CR) extend lifespan and increase resistance to age-related diseases in rodents and monkeys and improve the health of overweight humans. Both IF and CR enhance cardiovascular and brain functions and improve several risk factors for coronary artery disease and stroke including a reduction in blood pressure and increased insulin sensitivity.* Cardiovascular stress adaptation is improved and heart rate variability is increased in rodents maintained on an IF or a CR diet. Moreover, rodents maintained on an IF regimen exhibit increased resistance of heart and brain cells to ischemic injury in experimental models of myocardial infarction and stroke. The beneficial effects of IF and CR result from at least two mechanisms — reduced oxidative damage and increased cellular stress resistance. Recent findings suggest that some of the beneficial effects of IF on both the cardiovascular system and the brain are mediated by brain-derived neurotrophic factor signaling in the brain. Interestingly, cellular and molecular effects of IF and CR on the cardiovascular system and the brain are similar to those of regular physical exercise, suggesting shared mechanisms. A better understanding of the cellular and molecular mechanisms by which IF and CR affect the blood vessels and heart and brain cells will likely lead to novel preventative and therapeutic strategies for extending health span.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesomeness Base, thanks!!!




> Wow.... did I just read this whole thread start to finish.... yup, I did!


I just did the same... again!  :Wink: 




> This is awesome.... LOVE the idea. GB, I know we talked a few weeks back about how fat I let myself get and I never did get around to sending those pics.... but I spent the morning in the gym for the first time on over 6 months!! I slapped together a bunch of meals for today and planned on getting my shit together.... now after reading this thread I am gonna do this diet up starting tomorrow and to be accountable to my fat ass, I am gonna start a thread show pics of all my fatness and put this bitch to the test for 8-12 weeks. My goal is to drop 40lbs of fat and I may or may not use a custom made cutting supplement... This should be fun considering I am in the high 20% BF at the moment.
> 
> I am super excited to try this out... Its on like Donkey Kong!


lol, I posted in your thread today bro, you have my full support!!!

----------


## baseline_9

> Awesomeness Base, thanks!!!


Your welcome.... I am giving IF a bash myself so have been reading into it a bit, thought I may as well post some info in here to keep it in a central location

----------


## gbrice75

> Your welcome.... I am giving IF a bash myself so have been reading into it a bit, thought I may as well post some info in here to keep it in a central location


I still plan to go back to IF... very likely after the summer. In another month i'll be starting the same routine I did with Nark last summer, simply because I know how successful I was on it and don't want to experiment with IF and possibly wind up being a fat fvck for the summer! However I will definitely run the diet again - and I am much more knowledgeable now and will not make the same mistakes twice.

----------


## baseline_9

> I still plan to go back to IF... very likely after the summer. In another month i'll be starting the same routine I did with Nark last summer, simply because I know how successful I was on it and don't want to experiment with IF and possibly wind up being a fat fvck for the summer! However I will definitely run the diet again - and I am much more knowledgeable now and will not make the same mistakes twice.


What mistakes did you make?

----------


## gbrice75

> What mistakes did you make?


More like carelessness than mistakes I guess. Using IF as an excuse to eat stuff I normally wouldn't eat - think peanut butter and jelly. I was telling myself that the fast would negate these 'bad' calories, but I knew in the back of my head that wasn't true. Also thinking back, I didn't like my macro split much - will definitely drop calories further now that I know I can do that without hurting myself. 

My next IF diet will be near perfect!  :Wink:

----------


## gbrice75

Bump!! Enough people still interested in/running IF to warrant it. 

Also, once I finish my current cut, I will almost definitely be running IF again.

----------


## t-gunz

thinking of trying this myself

----------


## RaginCajun

try it t-gunz, its great. the first few weeks are rough but it gets easier. plus, its very satisfying knowing i can engulf 1200 cals in one meal PWO!

----------


## gbrice75

I'll be running IF again no later than September. Very much looking forward to it!

----------


## t-gunz

> try it t-gunz, its great. the first few weeks are rough but it gets easier. plus, its very satisfying knowing i can engulf 1200 cals in one meal PWO!


yeah im trying it right now. meals between 12 mid day to 8pm at night 

woke up this morning and had 10g BCAA. its 940am and im feeling good atm. i need to learn more about it though 




> I'll be running IF again no later than September. Very much looking forward to it!


u gonna log it g?

----------


## RaginCajun

hey yall! just wanted some advice/input on this. i have been pretty much at a stale mate with this IF diet, been doing it since Jan and love it, but it seems that i cannot get past this 175-176lb mark. do you think reverting back to a more meals approach will throw my body out of whack, potentially sparking something? or would it make my body want to store more since i have been fasting for 14-16hours everyday?

stats

5'10"
176lbs
20% BF (plus/minus 2)

----------


## Dukkit

> hey yall! just wanted some advice/input on this. i have been pretty much at a stale mate with this IF diet, been doing it since Jan and love it, but it seems that i cannot get past this 175-176lb mark. do you think reverting back to a more meals approach will throw my body out of whack, potentially sparking something? or would it make my body want to store more since i have been fasting for 14-16hours everyday?
> 
> stats
> 
> 5'10"
> 176lbs
> 20% BF (plus/minus 2)


You double check your macros lately?

Or adjust them as needed?

If possible... throw in a fat burner too. 

Or even green tea extract. I take it often when fasting. 

But check or lower your cals a slight bit. 

And double check your cals on your off days as well.

----------


## RaginCajun

thanks dukkit, yeah i need to reassess. its the damn weekends that kill me, beer and whiskey!

----------


## Dukkit

More whiskey, 

less beer. 

Thats my advice.

----------


## canadian-bacon



----------


## Dukkit

> 


My favorite meal!

----------


## Back In Black

> thanks dukkit, yeah i need to reassess. its the damn weekends that kill me, beer and whiskey!


Nail on the head, kidda!

----------


## RaginCajun

> More whiskey, 
> 
> less beer. 
> 
> Thats my advice.





> 





> My favorite meal!





> Nail on the head, kidda!



scotch it is!

----------


## spywizard

well, I tried it and was unsuccessful, however it's working great for my wife... 

I am doing all protein/fat breakfast, and not consuming anything after 6pm.. and i'm eating the paleo diet with much greater success..

----------


## RaginCajun

> well, I tried it and was unsuccessful, however it's working great for my wife... 
> 
> I am doing all protein/fat breakfast, and not consuming anything after 6pm.. and i'm eating the paleo diet with much greater success..


i love the paleo way. i did it a while back when i was training for a triathlon and had success with it.

----------


## RaginCajun

weighted in this morning 4 lbs lower than yesterday morning. 176.5 to 172.5. has to be water or the scotch!

----------


## gbrice75

> More whiskey, 
> 
> less beer. 
> 
> Thats my advice.


If people took your advice, they'd be eating donuts. And tuna with BBQ sauce. And still looking sexy!!!  :LOL: 




> well, I tried it and was unsuccessful, however it's working great for my wife... 
> 
> I am doing all protein/fat breakfast, and not consuming anything after 6pm.. and i'm eating the paleo diet with much greater success..


I've seen at least one other person that IF absolutely didn't work out for. It's not for everybody. 

You're doing a protein/fat breakfast... how about the other meals before 6pm?




> hey yall! just wanted some advice/input on this. i have been pretty much at a stale mate with this IF diet, been doing it since Jan and love it, but it seems that i cannot get past this 175-176lb mark. do you think reverting back to a more meals approach will throw my body out of whack, potentially sparking something? or would it make my body want to store more since i have been fasting for 14-16hours everyday?
> 
> stats
> 
> 5'10"
> 176lbs
> 20% BF (plus/minus 2)


RC - I responded to this in my 'ask GB anything' thread as I saw it before this, but basically echo what T Gunz said. I don't think changing your meal frequency is the answer, and definitely not the first adjustment to make. Overall calories, macro split, carb timing, workout in relation to diet schedule, etc. I think these factors will have a greater impact.

----------


## spywizard

Primary source of carbs is beans and sweet potato only..

----------


## gbrice75

So this isn't 100% paleo then, right? 

Also, are you incorporating fruits, berries, and/or veggies at all?

----------


## spywizard

root veggies mostly, fruit 1x day max.. 

dark green leaf only.. spinach mostly.

----------


## gbrice75

sounds like a party!  :LOL: 

I'll probably try the paleo diet at some point, it's one I haven't had the opportunity to get into yet.

----------


## spywizard

My wife is down 8 lbs in 2 weeks and seems like her set point has changed doing just the IF diet (cause i know she's cheating on the paleo) but she does get 1 paleo meal a day..

----------


## gbrice75

Nice results for 2 weeks. Of course, we'll need to wait to see what the longer term outcome is. Man, changing my set point is major for me right now... I have been struggling with that for a while now!

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## spywizard

here's one for ya...

Target Super Stores (at least here in minnesota) are carrying grass fed steaks and Hamberger...

Now that's something i can support

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## gbrice75

Damn, really? I'd love to eat some real meat... I'll have to check out the Target near me. I imagine the price is pretty steep though, right?

----------


## spywizard

> Damn, really? I'd love to eat some real meat... I'll have to check out the Target near me. I imagine the price is pretty steep though, right?


3.98 lb for the ground beef

9.99 lb for the ribeye.. and they package it 1 lb packs.. 

not bad at all really..

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## gbrice75

Nice, thanks for the info!

----------


## odessy

Saw this a week ago and started to sift through the bulk of information on it. Going to give it a go next week as my fat loss has started to slow down notably. Still need to do a bit more reading but this was what I was thinking so far:

89kg.
22 years old.
BF guess around 20%. See here for pics if you want a better idea http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...5#.T6Cy5sWw7Kc

9am Wake up: 20-30min run, possibly get some bcaa for this but not sure if I really need it?

12-1ish: 20% meal

4pm: Weights

5pm-8pm: Consume the further 80% of my calories in pwo shake and pwo meal. 

Macros will be staying the same as I have previously 260p: 150c: 50f, see the link above will be the same just condensed into bigger meals. On non-training days I will probably run/abs around the same time, maybe cut down on the amount of carbs intake slightly?

Will also probably consume caffeine during the morning to help me focus while studying. 

Trying to keep macros/food and just change up the frequency to create the fasting period as it will give a better indication on whether this method has succeeded.

----------


## Tx89

I would definitely train fasted and break the fast with a big pwo meal! At your bf level this should be no prob and accelerate fat loss.
Also you could increase the fasting window up to 20hours to get to a 20/4 fasting/feeding scheme warrior diet style.
And maybe one Day a week of complete fasting(maybe the Day After a refeed) to get things going.

Reactions to fasting are highly Individual, but These things worked great for me! :-)

----------


## gbrice75

> Saw this a week ago and started to sift through the bulk of information on it. Going to give it a go next week as my fat loss has started to slow down notably. Still need to do a bit more reading but this was what I was thinking so far:
> 
> 89kg.
> 22 years old.
> BF guess around 20%. See here for pics if you want a better idea http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...5#.T6Cy5sWw7Kc
> 
> 9am Wake up: 20-30min run, possibly get some bcaa for this but not sure if I really need it?


IMO, yes to BCAA's before a fasted cardio session. 




> 12-1ish: 20% meal
> 
> 4pm: Weights
> 
> 5pm-8pm: Consume the further 80% of my calories in pwo shake and pwo meal.


There's no right or wrong way here, but when I ran IF I trained fasted and broke the fast with my PWO meal (and that meal came several hours PWO, not immediately after). You'll be training at an ideal time in terms of a fast. Don't worry about lack of energy; I expected to feel like crap (much like the beginnings of ketosis) but it was quite the contrary - I had some of the most intense training sessions of my life fasted. I actually had MORE energy than when I trained in a fed state! Hormones at work! PS - if you decide to train fasted, do take BCAA's pre workout.




> Macros will be staying the same as I have previously 260p: 150c: 50f, see the link above will be the same just condensed into bigger meals. On non-training days I will probably run/abs around the same time, maybe cut down on the amount of carbs intake slightly?


I'd probably do no starchy carbs on non-training days. Do you have any consecutive non-training days?

----------


## Tx89

Hey GB, as I see you have researched a ton on IF and know your stuff. And I always thought my obession for researching new things was Big  :Wink: 

I will give IF another shot in the following weeks to get te final % of bf away. Two questions for you man:
1) how Important do you think are the bcaas before weights? I've read a study somewhere that they actually kick you Out of a truly fasted state and in terms d bodyfat reduction One should Not take them.
I personally never noticed any difference with or without and think that at 13-14%bf now my body probably will not likely "eat up" muscle if i dont do it. Whats your opinion?

2)i will perform high frequency training while doing IF and Hit the Gym 6x/week for whole body workouts with compound movements. I wont make it all of These 6 days directly before my feeding time begins at ~8pm. If i train maybe at noon and then feed my pwo meal a couple hours later, do you See that as a Problem?
Alternative would be a dynamic feeding window that always follows my workout no matter what time i eat. This would mean i dont have 20 hours of fasting everyday, but a dynamic schedule.
Again i prefer the first option, but am interested in your opinion!

Thanks :-)

----------


## gbrice75

> Hey GB, as I see you have researched a ton on IF and know your stuff. And I always thought my obession for researching new things was Big


lol, thanks brother!




> I will give IF another shot in the following weeks to get te final % of bf away. Two questions for you man:
> 1) how Important do you think are the bcaas before weights? I've read a study somewhere that they actually kick you Out of a truly fasted state and in terms d bodyfat reduction One should Not take them.
> I personally never noticed any difference with or without and think that at 13-14%bf now my body probably will not likely "eat up" muscle if i dont do it. Whats your opinion?


It's true that taking BCAA's will technically break a fast. However, it's a lesser of 2 evils IMO. Even Martin @ Leangains concedes this. While it's technically breaking the fast, it's HARDLY doing enough to hinder, let alone halt fat burning. It's the better option than training fasted and potentially wasting LBM when things get too intense (and if you're training right, they should!).




> 2)i will perform high frequency training while doing IF and Hit the Gym 6x/week for whole body workouts with compound movements. I wont make it all of These 6 days directly before my feeding time begins at ~8pm. If i train maybe at noon and then feed my pwo meal a couple hours later, do you See that as a Problem?


How will you do total body workouts 6x a week???  :Hmmmm: 

In any event, I have no problem with delaying your PWO meal several hours after your workout. In fact, that's exactly what I did - trained from 6am - 7:30am, did cardio, and broke my fast around 12pm. I would recommend BCAA's again PWO however. What are your plans for cardio?




> Alternative would be a dynamic feeding window that always follows my workout no matter what time i eat. This would mean i dont have 20 hours of fasting everyday, but a dynamic schedule.
> Again i prefer the first option, but am interested in your opinion!
> 
> Thanks :-)


1st option isn't a problem, aside from needing clarification on your training plans.

----------


## Tx89

Thanks for taking the time to reply :-)
Okay, delaying the fastbreaking PWO meal is what I planned, good to hear you are with me here.
With the BCAAs I think i'm gonna experiment a bit, but they wont make or break it i guess.

Concerning my training:
I recently read some books about
Higher frequency Training and the benefits it has over the Standard split volume Training. I know this goes against most BB "rules" and i know you can be succesful with a Split too. Its highly individual in general anyway. But I now believe that training every muscle only 1x per week and then destroying it 100% is Not the Most clever way to Approach things as it doesnt give as many stimuli as could be given and puts enormous stress on the cns. Thats what causes the feeling of overtraining and not muscles. Muscles are masters if adaption and they WILL adapt to the frequency you work them. 
So i will lift 6x a week and no Session will last more than an hour. I will do 3 basic movements per Session, always one whole body or powerlifting movement, One push movement and one pull movement. I will train smartly by using cluster Training for fatigue management and set a total number if clean reps anywhere between 20 and 50 depending on the exercise and whether i want to stress the mechanical or the metabolic stimulus of it. I will Never Train to failure , because in this System that would put too much stress on the cns and generally i believe is far overrated. If i Finish a session before the 60min mark i will use the remainder for accessory work like calves, side delts and abs. Cardio will be Performed at least 4 times a week with 2 slow and steady 60min Sessions and 2 interval Sessions. Sometimes i Hit 6 cardio Sessions and do it "405 style", like some Intervals In the beginning and then finish off steady pace.

I hope it is halfway clear what i mean. Damn brother, its hard to say all that stuff in english and i dont wanna sound nooby because of language barriers ;-)
I know the HFT System is against some old rules, but if you read into it it does make a Lot of sense and i just went ahead and tried it and i promise it is the best Way i ever trained and i smashed all Plateaus within 3 months that the last 2 years if volume split train couldnt get me over! I just love it! Cant wait to Start IF along with it and become one shredded German tank :-)

----------


## fatman225

Since I've been doing the IF for a couple months now, and NOT used BCAA's, at all, I've not noticed any muscle loss.

Here is an interesting article on BCAA's from Scott Able: scottabel. blogspot. com/2010/12/branch-chain-amino-acids-bcaas-save.html (sorry the link is busted up, have to for spam filter)

So far, as an experiment, I am going to continue to save my money. 

The whole point of IF way of eating, for me is all about saving money, saving time, etc... if the BCAA's are not really as effective as we thought, then perhaps they too are a myth just like many supps and the whole eating every 3 hours thing was. 

The more I experience IF and learn about it the more "normal" and "natural" form of eating it seems to sound for the human body.

----------


## gbrice75

> Since I've been doing the IF for a couple months now, and NOT used BCAA's, at all, I've not noticed any muscle loss.


But you mentioned in my IF log that you have been training in the fed state, therefore you would have no use for BCAA's preworkout. 




> Here is an interesting article on BCAA's from Scott Able: scottabel. blogspot. com/2010/12/branch-chain-amino-acids-bcaas-save.html (sorry the link is busted up, have to for spam filter)
> 
> So far, as an experiment, I am going to continue to save my money.


I'd have to check it out, haven't read this.




> The whole point of IF way of eating, for me is all about saving money, saving time, etc... if the BCAA's are not really as effective as we thought, then perhaps they too are a myth just like many supps and the whole eating every 3 hours thing was.


Possibly - and I will have to reserve judgement until I read the post/article, however while there are many myths in the bodybuilding world, I don't think BCAA's are one of them. I mean, we know for fact that protein is made up of amino acids, and we know what we know about BCAA's and protein synthesis, with specific emphasis on Leucine.

Thanks for posting though - always good to see another perspective.

----------


## fatman225

> But you mentioned in my IF log that you have been training in the fed state, therefore you would have no use for BCAA's preworkout.


Hmmm... That is a good point. 

Thank you for the replies too.

Today I did reverse order as I ussually have done, with my "breakfast" being my PWO. Today was arms day. Workout honestly felt fine, only 30 minutes in the gym for arms. The workout was at 4:00pm as I got out of work early. 

The only complaint (and its not a big issue) I have for training fasted is that I notice being hungry more. I'm wondering even if it does make a big difference, how much of a difference it makes. If we are talking 1/2 pound muscle difference after like a year that is not really enough of a difference. 

Knowing that either way seems to work for me is even more liberating, as my workout and breakfast can easily be flexible in schedule now.  :Big Grin: 

Other than feeling the hunger the workout went rather well I seemed to be a bit more aggressive in the gym, and did not have to wait as long between sets.

By about 4:40 I was already home (house is only 5 blocks from gym), and onto my treadmil (where I can play playstation during cardio, no boredom factor). 30 minutes cardio, no ill effects. No hypoglycemia or any such issues I would have worried about in the past. 

Showered off, and ate around 5:30. 

I'm not super clean about what I eat when I do eat, I like to enjoy something each day. 1 cup potato salad, about 480 cals, 1 cup ground beef, about 350 calories, and 8 eggs with cut up tomato roughly 600 cals. SO total is still well within my 1800 daily limit. (about 3200 maintenence). 

I feel full as all heck, and do not even want to look at food at the moment. Strong dopamine fix from the food, or whatever the "good feeling" from feeling full is. 

Even got the food sweats, where you start sweating a lot right after eating. Crazy feeling, as if I had just ruined a traditional diet. All while being WAY under my maitenence cal intake for the day. That mental thing is what makes this diet work so well. I can go all day without eating, so long as I know I will get my "fix" at some point. 

It also is liberating to know that food choices do not have to be as overly clean as I once thought. I still try to keep it reasonably clean, by trying to avoid highly processed crap, but I actually will eat some starchy carbs when I do have my meal, fats, and even eat the egg yolk. So far my fat loss has not stopped, so no metabolism plateau that I have felt yet. 

Before bed I may even have some popcorn (the kind with just putting seeds in popper, I never mess with the pre-packed hydrogenated bombs) with a movie. That would count as meal 2 for me, which is much smaller than meal 1. Meal 2 is just something in my stomach so I can sleep without waking up with the jitters. I'm not even worried about the low protein content as I now know that some protein sources continue to release protein for many hours after being eaten.

These experiments are fun. Its like re-learning everything I used to "know" in a positive way. For my evening life with my family, after work, I can actually enjoy my time, relax, and even forget that I am on a diet until the next morning. 

Everyone here has likely been around Bodybuilder on a tradition Bro-science diet. Tiny meals, rarely satisfied, and crabby all the time. Not good for family life at all. *IF*  is great in that family friendly way. If I ever do get crabby while fasting I'm at work anyway. When I get to eat, I'm with my pregnant wife and my kid, and so they notice no behavioral changes either.

----------


## gbrice75

> Hmmm... That is a good point. 
> 
> Thank you for the replies too.


You're welcome!  :Wink: 




> Today I did reverse order as I ussually have done, with my "breakfast" being my PWO. Today was arms day. Workout honestly felt fine, only 30 minutes in the gym for arms. The workout was at 4:00pm as I got out of work early. 
> 
> The only complaint (and its not a big issue) I have for training fasted is that I notice being hungry more. I'm wondering even if it does make a big difference, how much of a difference it makes. If we are talking 1/2 pound muscle difference after like a year that is not really enough of a difference.


How many hours into your fast did this workout take place?




> Other than feeling the hunger the workout went rather well I seemed to be a bit more aggressive in the gym, and did not have to wait as long between sets.


Very likely due to epinephrine/norepinephrine (adrenline) ... I find my fasted workouts to be more intense than in the fed state as well.




> By about 4:40 I was already home (house is only 5 blocks from gym), and onto my treadmil (where I can play playstation during cardio, no boredom factor). 30 minutes cardio, no ill effects. No hypoglycemia or any such issues I would have worried about in the past.


Fvcking awesome!! How do you deal with the 'bounce' of the treadmill? I don't imagine you're playing any FPS like CoD or anything like that, eh!?!




> Showered off, and ate around 5:30. 
> 
> I'm not super clean about what I eat when I do eat, I like to enjoy something each day. 1 cup potato salad, about 480 cals, 1 cup ground beef, about 350 calories, and 8 eggs with cut up tomato roughly 600 cals. SO total is still well within my 1800 daily limit. (about 3200 maintenence).


Yum. Sounds way high in fat, way too high for me, but yum. With a 3200 calorie maintenance (how did you determine that? That's sounds damned high bro), this isn't your only meal, is it?




> I feel full as all heck, and do not even want to look at food at the moment. Strong dopamine fix from the food, or whatever the "good feeling" from feeling full is.


Ahhh, the endorphine rush!!  :Smilie:  




> Even got the food sweats, where you start sweating a lot right after eating. Crazy feeling, as if I had just ruined a traditional diet. All while being WAY under my maitenence cal intake for the day. That mental thing is what makes this diet work so well. I can go all day without eating, so long as I know I will get my "fix" at some point.


I get this all the time, because I eat so fvcking fast lol! Make it a spicy dish, and i'm like a fountain!




> It also is liberating to know that food choices do not have to be as overly clean as I once thought. I still try to keep it reasonably clean, by trying to avoid highly processed crap, but I actually will eat some starchy carbs when I do have my meal, fats, and even eat the egg yolk. So far my fat loss has not stopped, so no metabolism plateau that I have felt yet.


Agreed - I stick with natural foods as much as possible, and don't pay much attention to white vs. brown anymore. As long as you continue to progress, stick with what your doing. 




> Before bed I may even have some popcorn (the kind with just putting seeds in popper, I never mess with the pre-packed hydrogenated bombs) with a movie. That would count as meal 2 for me, which is much smaller than meal 1.


Meh. What kind of meal is this though? Zero nutritional value.




> Meal 2 is just something in my stomach so I can sleep without waking up with the jitters. I'm not even worried about the low protein content as I now know that some protein sources continue to release protein for many hours after being eaten.


Understood. Still wouldn't be my choice personally, but to each his own.




> These experiments are fun. Its like re-learning everything I used to "know" in a positive way. For my evening life with my family, after work, I can actually enjoy my time, relax, and even forget that I am on a diet until the next morning.


Yep, this is one of the most appealing things about IF, imo. You basically get to live a 'regular' life. Of course, it sucks when there's food in front of you during your fast period, especially when you're out and about, and you can't even have a morsel where normally you might make that allowance. Give and take I suppose.




> Everyone here has likely been around Bodybuilder on a tradition Bro-science diet. Tiny meals, rarely satisfied, and crabby all the time. Not good for family life at all. *IF*  is great in that family friendly way. If I ever do get crabby while fasting I'm at work anyway. When I get to eat, I'm with my pregnant wife and my kid, and so they notice no behavioral changes either.


Amen!!! I will have to stick with it a while longer to know whether or not it's really for me, from a body composition standpoint, but I sure hope it is, because I enjoy it MUCH more so than traditional dieting.

----------


## fatman225

> You're welcome! 
> 
> 
> 
> How many hours into your fast did this workout take place?


Right near the end. I stopped writing down the exact times but it was roughly 18 hours in. Now that I have started incorporating fasted weight workouts, I seem to be addapting to them well.

Cardio I had done in the past on an empty stomach, but weights was a little new to me. I shocked at how quickly I was able to make the switch. Thanks for that one.

I like to have ALL my work out of the way for the evening before I eat.





> Fvcking awesome!! How do you deal with the 'bounce' of the treadmill? I don't imagine you're playing any FPS like CoD or anything like that, eh!?!


No, not FPS, not the fast paced ones anyway or I do end up walking off the treadmill. I like more of the real time strategy types, or old rpg format games where you can really get your mind lost in the games. There will be times when I have done enough cardio, 60+ minutes in, soaked in sweat and all that, and I got to turn off my game. 




> Yum. Sounds way high in fat, way too high for me, but yum. With a 3200 calorie maintenance (how did you determine that? That's sounds damned high bro), this isn't your only meal, is it?


That was really just one that the local trainer at my gym helped me estimate. Had a food log for a week a while back before starting IF, long time ago, and at the time I was around 250 pounds, but a lot of it was fat. MY maintenence may have gone down to the mid 2000's by now, but I'm unsure as my weight is continuing to drop. I try to keep daily intake under 2000, and often do not go above 1600. Most days it is just one meal, once in a while a very small snack before sleeping. 

So my fasting window can vary slightly. MOst days is 23/1, if that's how we count one big meal. Now keep in mind that meal will have me in the "fed" state for a good 5 hours. So its technically more like a 19/5 split most days. 

I almost never have "re-feed" days where I eat 3 meals. I just don't "feel" the need. 





> Ahhh, the endorphine rush!!


So that is what that is? THe lack of that is what keeps 6 small meal method from working for me. Its not that I could not physiologically lose body fat doing so, its that I cannot mentally stick to it. Its not helped by the social pressure, and prep time that goes into that style either. I'm amazed at how some guys manage to do this. Some strong discipline they got. 






> I get this all the time, because I eat so fvcking fast lol! Make it a spicy dish, and i'm like a fountain!


Oh yeah, I'm a spiceaholic too. If I make a chillie its got whole jalapenos for spice. I have to make it different for if I'm feeding family or myself. 






> Agreed - I stick with natural foods as much as possible, and don't pay much attention to white vs. brown anymore. As long as you continue to progress, stick with what your doing.


I know those natural/paleo type diets say no grains at all, but I do sometimes eat a cup of oats with my meal. I figure if you got to eat any grain, oats it is. The main reason being the fiber. -The Porcelain gods punish me if they do not get their daily offering. 




> Amen!!! I will have to stick with it a while longer to know whether or not it's really for me, from a body composition standpoint, but I sure hope it is, because I enjoy it MUCH more so than traditional dieting.


Everything I have read about IF indicates it is FAR more natural for us due to our ancient ancestor addaptations, has stagering health benefits, and very few drawbacks. It even increases growth hormone production. 

Obviously it is not for everyone, but it may be applicable to a LOT of people in how it lowers inflamation better than most medications etc... 

I really think MORE research should be done on this growth hormone related issue too. It should be scientificly studied intensely and tested. When I read about that I was reminded of a close friend who was obese as a child, and who around the age of 16 was the short fat kid in highschool. He did not know anything about "propper" diet, and so his whole family was on him about switching to a one meal a day eating plan. Its so "unhealthy" that he lost the extra fat and quickly shot up to his adult height of 6'5". Which is 9 inches taller than his father, and 14 inches taller than his mother. - suggesting more than just genetics might have been in play. I assumed it was his good hidden genetics that skipped a generation or something that turned him into a lean man-tower, and that it was genetics in-spite of his childhood obesity that did this for him, and that his other 6 siblings were just unlucky ending up short and fat as adults just like his parents.

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## gbrice75

There seems to be a lot of interest in IF lately, so B-U-M-P!!!  :Big Grin: 

Anybody want this thread sticky'd?

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## AXx

I think it should be sticky'd!!!! What about a copy and paste of Leangains? Would that help you think or would it be easier for people to just google it?

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## mockery

bump!

any suggestions when using IF , especially at the start and my blood sugar takes a nose dive during the fasted state . What would u suggest to take to bring it back up and recover ?

thanks

----------


## fatman225

> bump!
> 
> any suggestions when using IF , especially at the start and my blood sugar takes a nose dive during the fasted state . What would u suggest to take to bring it back up and recover ?
> 
> thanks


Are you diabetic?

----------


## mockery

> Are you diabetic?


no

but there has been times in the past 15 years where i thought i might be hypoglycemic. some days i wouldnt take or afford a lunch and half way through the day id get really ill feeling followed by massive fatigue, tired lots of yawning , sluggish, etc.

i got tested in dec 2011 for diabetes, all good. But i know that not eating can lead me to be very grumpy or similar features of chronic fatigue syndrome. Mind you my GP says chronic fatigue syndrome isnt real... 

just wanna be prepared for the worst.

----------


## fatman225

> no
> 
> but there has been times in the past 15 years where i thought i might be hypoglycemic. some days i wouldnt take or afford a lunch and half way through the day id get really ill feeling followed by massive fatigue, tired lots of yawning , sluggish, etc.
> 
> i got tested in dec 2011 for diabetes, all good. But i know that not eating can lead me to be very grumpy or similar features of chronic fatigue syndrome. Mind you my GP says chronic fatigue syndrome isnt real... 
> 
> just wanna be prepared for the worst.



Well, then I don't think its low blood sugar making you tired so much as you body adapting to the situation of having to use stored fat calories to burn as fuel. 

The human body is very good at regulating blood sugar in people who are not diabetic.

Likely it is just having to adapt, which can be a drag. Once you get past the first few days it becomes easy and you will feel more energy.

----------


## mockery

what about food como's after eating your first 50% calorie meal ? last two days have been rough to stay active with out passing out haha.

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## fatman225

> what about food como's after eating your first 50% calorie meal ? last two days have been rough to stay active with out passing out haha.


Oh yeah, that almost always happens to me. 

Soon as I get some food in my body says to relax.

That is your CNS telling you to relax, its not caused by the blood sugar. Actually, fasting increases insulin sensitivity, so your body can handle the carbs better when you do eat. 

I save my eating time for when all my work is done for the day, because when I eat I also want to relax.

----------


## yannick35

Experiments with
Intermittent Fasting Dr. John M. Berardi

http://www.precisionnutrition.com/intermittent-fasting

This is free and packed with information on the pros and cons of fasting. Dr. John M. Berardi tried different fasting plans for 6 months. He also included is workouts and eating plan.

I love the study because he also included blood works before and after is 6 months fasting.

The con that he noticed is the same i did and its not all cholesterol related either.

before value after value range

Cholesterol 3.78 mmol/L	5.0m mmol/L <5.0

LDL	2.24 mmol/L	2.98 mmol/L <3.36

HDL	1.15 mmol/L	1.64 mmol/L >1.04

Triglycerides 0.86 mmol/L	0.95 mmol/L <1.69

Hemoglobin 154 g/L	140 g/L 135-175

WBC 4.3 x E9/L	3.1 x E9/L 4-11

RBC 4.95 x E12/L	4.36 x E12/L 4.5-6.0

Platelet Count 169 x E9/L	150 x E9/L 150-400

Thyrotropin 1.62 mIU/L	1.21 mIU/L 0.35-5

Testosterone 28.9 nmol/L	23.8 nmol/L 8.4 – 28.7

I noticed that myself last year when i was IF and developed anemia for some odd reason my RBC where around 144 and they drop to 134, i lacked energy, was out of breath when going up stairs or training and more.

I feel that people should read this whole study before getting into IF. Its great for a short amount of time. And they are a lot of ways to do this.


Dr. John M. Berardi is a meat eater, he also eats egg and lots of food with iron, also saturated fats cooking with coconut oil, fish oil that all produces cholesterol which produce testosterone. So the diet might not be to blame for the drop in testosterone and thyroid hormone.

Right now i am still having prolotherapy treatments its very important that i keep all my blood level high also the RBC so that nutrients get to the ligaments and repair them. Platelet Count must also be high and WBC too.

My best option i will switch from the renegade diet for now to Eat Stop Eat, and fast 1-2 a week for 24 hours.

I sumble on fasting not even knowing what it was back in 2008 during the holidays after having huge stomach upsets, acid reflux, and liver pains. I had that for a month and yes it was all the crap process foods and all i had eaten 6 months prior to that. I decided to stop eating for periods at a time and drink water. All my digestive problems got fixed within 2 weeks, i was eating twice a day morning and at noon and not eating again til the next day.

This is where i started doing research on fasting and found Eat stop eat by Brad Pilon.

----------


## yannick35

Personal note if you are using steroids , testosterone or GH i am using both but therapeutic dosage there is a good chance RBC count will go up, and testosterone level will also go up, also using T3 will help with the thyroid hormone issue.

But even then blood test should be done. There seems to be something or a message that the body sends itself after long fasting period that might interfere with the production of theses important hormones and the RBC, WBC and platelet count.

----------


## HCL

Watch the video on intermittent fasting on the "liftingforlife" youtube channel.

----------


## RaginCajun

i have been running the IF diet for about 6 months and love it. i am about to run a quasi-paleo IF. 15-16hr fast with carbs being only oats and fruits (berries and bananas). going to keep carbs at 100g or less and refeed when needed. i am about to train for a half marathon so seeing how my body will respond to this

----------


## gbrice75

> I think it should be sticky'd!!!! What about a copy and paste of Leangains? Would that help you think or would it be easier for people to just google it?


Meh, i'd rather people google it. We reference it enough here, and it's easy enough to find. 




> bump!
> 
> any suggestions when using IF , especially at the start and my blood sugar takes a nose dive during the fasted state . What would u suggest to take to bring it back up and recover ?
> 
> thanks





> no
> 
> but there has been times in the past 15 years where i thought i might be hypoglycemic. some days i wouldnt take or afford a lunch and half way through the day id get really ill feeling followed by massive fatigue, tired lots of yawning , sluggish, etc.
> 
> i got tested in dec 2011 for diabetes, all good. But i know that not eating can lead me to be very grumpy or similar features of chronic fatigue syndrome. Mind you my GP says chronic fatigue syndrome isnt real... 
> 
> just wanna be prepared for the worst.


Actually was going to ask if you were hypoglycemic. I used to suffer from this too. Years ago, before I really knew about diet and nutrition, and was into the 90's insulin spike fad, my pre and post workout meals looked something like this:

1 container non-fat cottage cheese with pineapple
1 dannon yogurt
1 'slim-fast' type shake (that's about 40g of sugar right there)
1 muscle milk shake
1 cup OJ

Pre and post looked pretty much the same. As you can see, they were shit meals - full of sugar, no appreciable slow burning carbs. My logic at the time was to have readily available glucose to burn up during my workout (meanwhile, my workout was slow and lazy, not at all cardio intensive, so chances of me burning glucose were slim), and a big PWO insulin spike (because that's what we all wanted, right?!?!). 

Well, I got what I wanted. A HUGE sugar spike, followed by a terrible crash - with symptoms exactly as you're describing. That's when I knew simple carbs, at least for me, weren't the way to go. My point here is i'd be curious to see what your meal(s) prior to fasting look like, as it may not be fasting causing your BGL to drop (have you been tested? Are you sure that's what's happening?), but rather the fact that they were too high to begin with and are simply 'leveling off'.

----------


## yannick35

> Watch the video on intermittent fasting on the "liftingforlife" youtube channel.


I just did good info, but like the guy said people have to try it and maybe not go crazy with it. It did work for me but i still feel it needs some tweeking.

----------


## mockery

> Meh, i'd rather people google it. We reference it enough here, and it's easy enough to find. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually was going to ask if you were hypoglycemic. I used to suffer from this too. Years ago, before I really knew about diet and nutrition, and was into the 90's insulin spike fad, my pre and post workout meals looked something like this:
> 
> 1 container non-fat cottage cheese with pineapple
> ...


its been years since i have felt like this, with an exception!! ( a can of coke ) ill drink it and maybe 20 minutes later im ready to pass out?? i spend the first 26 years of my life living off candy, ice cream and such...the fact im not diabetic is a miracle.

----------


## gbrice75

> its been years since i have felt like this, with an exception!! ( a can of coke ) ill drink it and maybe 20 minutes later im ready to pass out?? *i spend the first 26 years of my life living off candy, ice cream and such...the fact im not diabetic is a miracle.*


Same here, and ditto!

----------


## yannick35

I decided to stick on the IF diet, it works amazing its been like 5 days now and my sugar cravings are gone, hell my cravings are gone.... i have to force myself to eat, this is not good but...... i will hope for the renegade diet, quite simple fast for 16 hours, eat for the rest of the time period first few meals are low carb and at night i eat a regular meal. I really like this. Last time i was able to lose a lot of weight in record time with this and i was 34 years old, i am now 40, i have a lot more to lose this time try 40 years old 40 pounds.

Its also the prefect diet for me on weekends, at least i can go out and eat with friends and family and not hold back, well not hold back, this diet has a strange way of making you eat less, its kind of when you low carb for a while and you eat sugar again, it taste awful and weird.

I am having prolotherapy treatments right now so my RBC, WBC test and thyroid have to be high, but i am also taking 1IU of GH per day and getting 150mg of suspension in my prolo treatment with 2IU, so my guess is my blood work will not be an issue.

Most studies i read about awful blood profile following fasting where all by people who did not use steroids or GH. But they did eat saturated fats and red meat and there RBC went down.

I have to be very careful about this because last year i was anemic. I will get blood works in September to see if everything is in order.

----------


## jsn23

i enjoy cutting with IF, for me it has worked so efficiently. I have lots of energy, the fat is just falling off and i am loving it!

----------


## jsn23

its crazy though, so much of our country is obese because most people have a diet like this!

----------


## jsn23

i like sticking with animal proteins, beef, chicken, etc... i feel i can still gain muscle while i am cutting!

----------


## yannick35

> its crazy though, so much of our country is obese because most people have a diet like this!


I live in Canada and its not better, i work with some younger people i am 40 now and some of them are 25 others 30, there diet is terrible, they bring all that soda at the job 6 packs of them and drink it all during one shift, they order out at restaurant, eat candy, eat M&M, chips and tones of crap. I have seen some of them gain has much has 50-60 pounds in a year all fat. But people are like this IF for some people is way too much discipline.

Just not that easy to follow, hell no diet is easy to follow, we are exposed to junk food more then ever. There is no way they will solve obesity in the near future. IF could very well do it, i had sugar cravings that are gone now IF is that magical but people won't put up with it.

I am done trying to help people out, its always the same thing and i end up wasting my time. Now i need to help myself at 238 pounds something gotta give.

----------


## RaginCajun

> I live in Canada and its not better, i work with some younger people i am 40 now and some of them are 25 others 30, there diet is terrible, they bring all that soda at the job 6 packs of them and drink it all during one shift, they order out at restaurant, eat candy, eat M&M, chips and tones of crap. I have seen some of them gain has much has 50-60 pounds in a year all fat. But people are like this IF for some people is way too much discipline.
> 
> Just not that easy to follow, hell no diet is easy to follow, we are exposed to junk food more then ever. There is no way they will solve obesity in the near future. IF could very well do it, i had sugar cravings that are gone now IF is that magical but people won't put up with it.
> 
> I am done trying to help people out, its always the same thing and i end up wasting my time. Now i need to help myself at 238 pounds something gotta give.



i tend to disagree with you saying this is not easy to follow. eating 2-3 meals is way easier to keep track of, then eating 8 meals a day. don't see why your done helping people out either? you can only show them how and preach, but it is always up to the individual on how/what he/she wants to do. congrats on trying to help yourself!

----------


## gbrice75

> its crazy though, so much of our country is obese because most people have a diet like this!


The only similarity to IF dieting and the diet of an average obese person is the meal frequency. Does this sound like an IF diet?

Wake up - skip breakfast. 

Lunch (fast break): Cheesesteak with the works, bag of chips, large coke. Or, maybe a trip to McDonalds

Dinner: Few slices of pizza, soda. Sit on the couch and wolf down a bag of chips or cookies. 

Before bed: Starving due to not eating nutrient dense foods during the day: Pick on whatever's in the fridge. Finish off that pint of Hagan Daaz ice cream sitting in the freezer. 

Note exercise wasn't mentioned anywhere in the equation.

----------


## yannick35

> i tend to disagree with you saying this is not easy to follow. eating 2-3 meals is way easier to keep track of, then eating 8 meals a day. don't see why your done helping people out either? you can only show them how and preach, but it is always up to the individual on how/what he/she wants to do. congrats on trying to help yourself!


I see your point but i been training for close to 25 years you need to understand this too, people came to me for help, diet, training program and advise. I gave them all of this for free, did low carb diets for them, training program and has usual they would stick to it for a week and stop doing it to go back to hold habits. Explain to me why i should waste my energy and time worst doing it for free when people slap me back in the face by not sticking with a plan.

Yes this diet is easy you need to give it some time, or maybe you are not fit to do it. I have major issues with low carb diet, they make me feel terrible, i cannot stand ketosis, yet many people do fine on them. I do not have the patience to cook nor supplement 6-8 meals a day and time myself every 2-3 hours to eat. I am doing the renegade diet 15-16 hours fasting that is pretty much what you need to get almost all the benefits of fasting, that leave me around 8 hours that i can eat up, i can fit 3-4 meals in there easy.

For people who are asking for my advise i just tell them to read some books or i give them some pdf books i bough from the internet. I don't waste my time making weight training routines anymore. We have learned so much researching things on our own, if someone really wants it they will do the same read, informe search the internet. But like most people they either want everything right now, or they just give up.

I was very frustrated when i spend a few hours designing a program for someone, just to see that person eating candy and M&M the week after and simply saying well i tried.

----------


## yannick35

> The only similarity to IF dieting and the diet of an average obese person is the meal frequency. Does this sound like an IF diet?
> 
> Wake up - skip breakfast. 
> 
> Lunch (fast break): Cheesesteak with the works, bag of chips, large coke. Or, maybe a trip to McDonalds
> 
> Dinner: Few slices of pizza, soda. Sit on the couch and wolf down a bag of chips or cookies. 
> 
> Before bed: Starving due to not eating nutrient dense foods during the day: Pick on whatever's in the fridge. Finish off that pint of Hagan Daaz ice cream sitting in the freezer. 
> ...


You just described most people at my job, popping a can of pepsi at 8am in the morning. Taking there care to go get coffee at Tim Horton's when its a 10 minute walk.

----------


## mockery

> The only similarity to IF dieting and the diet of an average obese person is the meal frequency. Does this sound like an IF diet?
> 
> Wake up - skip breakfast. 
> 
> Lunch (fast break): Cheesesteak with the works, bag of chips, large coke. Or, maybe a trip to McDonalds
> 
> Dinner: Few slices of pizza, soda. Sit on the couch and wolf down a bag of chips or cookies. 
> 
> Before bed: Starving due to not eating nutrient dense foods during the day: Pick on whatever's in the fridge. Finish off that pint of Hagan Daaz ice cream sitting in the freezer. 
> ...


this is freaky... cause shit its what i use to do, the last part especially!! wtf man.... haha

----------


## yannick35

For the hunger issue, i am only human and yes i get hunger urges like everyone but i wait them out for 10-20 minutes and it passes. Not sure if everyone is able to do this or not, i have read a lot about IF and some people like my girlfriend could never be on any type of fasting diet. She needs to eat, has soon has she wakes up she needs to have breakfast or she is cranky and pissed off. When she gets hungry she has to eat, or she gets mad even at me. This is very understandable fasting is not for everyone.

I am a sugar junky i love to eat sugar, fasting a couple of days for 15-16 hours a day just remove this carving for sugar, its not easy at first but if people stick to it, it does get easier at least it does for me. I did low carb for 3 months and i felt like crap all that time, my body never adapted to ketosis, again some will some wont. But low carbing has tones of benefits and i lost a lot of weight during that time, and it was not all water. Combined with IF its a very sick combination for weight loss.

I just finished training this morning after being fasted for 14 hours, i feel great, wake up have a cup of green tea and hit the gym. I have read a lot of good things about IF and the way it melt the fat off the mid section, i still got love handles and a very small gut i hate them, and at 40 its time to put up or shut up.

With IF i can still indulge in fast food and not even pay the price, i live the website leangains and its all free. I also want to look into eating for the older athlete. I am not looking to have 20 inches arms, 50 inch chest, at my age i am looking for less fat, and health, feeling younger too and feeling like this for the longest that i can.

My grandmother is 90 years old and she is very healthy, she feels good for her age, is able to move around alone, she will get winded but she is still active and a great inspiration for me. In all her age on planet earth she know that losing weight means eating less, and skipping meals, IF has been around a long long time.

I also found that mixing low carb after breaking the fast is also amazing, and eating carbs in my last meal or just after training. Problem is that i train in the morning and i break my fast around Noon or 1pm but that is fine,i can adjuste.

----------


## gbrice75

> You just described most people at my job, popping a can of pepsi at 8am in the morning. Taking there care to go get coffee at Tim Horton's when its a 10 minute walk.


Most people everywhere! At least in the US...




> this is freaky... cause shit its what i use to do, the last part especially!! wtf man.... haha


Same here bro. My dinner every single night was one of:

McDonalds, Burker King, Wendy's, or Taco Bell, or
Chinese Food (General Tso's Chicken, Pork Fried Rice, Egg Roll, Beef on a stick, boneless ribs, etc)
Pizza (encompassing a pizza, calzone, garlic knots, etc)

The most I did in the way of home cooking was Hamburger Helper. It's actually amazing that I didn't get much heavier than 255lbs considering this was my daily routine for the better part of 15 years.

----------


## mockery

1 week of IF 91kgs to 87kgs, lows through the week have been as low as 85.8kg. 

thanks!!!!!


BUMP

----------


## Gambolputty

I loved IF. I have a busy, unpredictable work life and only needing to plan a single meal was a big winner. It was pretty easy to convert to the diet coming from a ketogenic / paleo eating plan. 

the downside was my wife getting worried about my only eating once a day. 

Now I eat breakfast at 0600 and dinner around 1900. Not quite IF, but pretty close.

----------


## gbrice75

^^ nice guys!

----------


## cue_artist

I just started IF and lost 2 lbs in 1 week. I have to say its super awsome !

----------


## fatman225

I cannot give enough praise to IF. 

You guys can see my log in this forum. 

My love handles (_they should call them "hate" handles, because that's how we ALL feel about them right_?) from behind are rapidly shrinking, and the cool part is I get to FEEL really good and FULL at least once a day. 

I can go hungry all day long, so long as I know at some point I can eat good, there is light at the end of the tunnel. 

Today, I just got done eating 900 calories of pizza, 350 of cooked ground beef, and then a whole lot of asperigus fried in the left over beef fat, educated guess is 200 calories due to the fat content. 

This was not a clean meal, but the overall calories adds up to under my 1600 calorie a day limit. 

1600 is a severe deficit, but I have plenty of fat to lose.

IF is so far the only diet I can mentally stick to that allows for such a severe calorie restriction, allowing for maximum possible fat loss. Not to mention training while fasted means you are buring straight fat.

----------


## ppwc1985

I jumping on to, lol started Monday, tried the 6 meal day thing. I work nights driving truck day ends up being 14 hr day, then hit gym for 1 1/2 hrs around 4 am. Only problem is I only have 1-2 hrs to eat 2000 cals. Not an easy task. Also on test cyp 250 twice week. Hopefully it stops me from losing muscle o. Restricted diet. Fatman your pictures was big difference. I need to drop another 25 lbs than
I should be good. Was always in shape till started driving truck 5 years ago, went from225 12% bf to 308 and most likely 45% bf but down to 245 with 22% bf hope to get to 15 soon.

----------


## mockery

Bump!

----------


## tboney

For those running a typical aas cycle, are there any special considerations that would need to be taken into account if doing the IFasting protocol ??

----------


## gbrice75

> I just started IF and lost 2 lbs in 1 week. I have to say its super awsome !


Glad you're liking it so far Cue... it gets easier if anything IMO! 




> I jumping on to, lol started Monday, tried the 6 meal day thing. I work nights driving truck day ends up being 14 hr day, then hit gym for 1 1/2 hrs around 4 am. Only problem is I only have 1-2 hrs to eat 2000 cals. Not an easy task. Also on test cyp 250 twice week. Hopefully it stops me from losing muscle o. Restricted diet. Fatman your pictures was big difference. I need to drop another 25 lbs than
> I should be good. Was always in shape till started driving truck 5 years ago, went from225 12% bf to 308 and most likely 45% bf but down to 245 with 22% bf hope to get to 15 soon.


Congrats on starting.. keep us posted!




> Bump!


Thx for the bump mock! 




> For those running a typical aas cycle, are there any special considerations that would need to be taken into account if doing the IFasting protocol ??


What do you consider typical, and would the cycle be geared towards cutting or adding mass? 

Personally, I wouldn't run an IF diet for a mass cycle. I think you'd benefit better from the frequent feedings as protein synthesis will be elevated, and bodyfat concerns will be lessened somewhat (assuming you're eating right) due to more efficient nutrient partitioning. 

Now for a cutting cycle, it may work VERY well, although I would definitely supplement with BCAA's during the fast.

----------


## mockery

> For those running a typical aas cycle, are there any special considerations that would need to be taken into account if doing the IFasting protocol ??


well you will be anabolic so not much of anything should phase you. Just be sure you can consume your total daily micro's in 8 hours. for smaller diets its east after 2700+ it gets to be hard especially if you only have 1-2 shakes. 3500 calories from whole foods is hard to eat in 3 meals. 

Bcaa before you train, IF YOU work out fasted.

You need to learn that a skipped meal or not eating for a set amount of hours does not make you lose muscle. IF protocol is a god send. Just know it takes about 14 days for your hormones to adjust, you wont necessarily be a nice person in that time, with elevated testosterone you may be a bit snippy.

----------


## mockery

> Personally, I wouldn't run an IF diet for a mass cycle. I think you'd benefit better from the frequent feedings as protein synthesis will be elevated, and bodyfat concerns will be lessened somewhat (assuming you're eating right) due to more efficient nutrient partitioning.


ive devoted the past 6 days for 3-4 hours a day reading up on this. My take on this is, IF protocol can work for mass building diet, and work very well in fact the key to it though is if you can consume your daily calories in that 8 hour window. Even better i think if you could do a 18/6 during a bulk cause the increase of HGH release. BUT again not many people can stomach that much food. unless you eating in the low to mid 2000's Just my take on it.

I will be looking at doing a 24 hour fast 6pm- 6pm perhaps since daily fasts will not work for me with a base line of 3000-3500 calories.

----------


## tboney

> Glad you're liking it so far Cue... it gets easier if anything IMO! 
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats on starting.. keep us posted!
> 
> 
> 
> Thx for the bump mock! 
> ...


Im talking about cycle geared for lean gains.
For example a blast of say 350 to 400 mgs a week of a long estered test and maybe 800 mgs/week of primo or 350 mgs week of tren ....

----------


## gbrice75

> ive devoted the past 6 days for 3-4 hours a day reading up on this. My take on this is, IF protocol can work for mass building diet, and work very well in fact the key to it though is if you can consume your daily calories in that 8 hour window. Even better i think if you could do a 18/6 during a bulk cause the increase of HGH release. BUT again not many people can stomach that much food. unless you eating in the low to mid 2000's Just my take on it.
> 
> I will be looking at doing a 24 hour fast 6pm- 6pm perhaps since daily fasts will not work for me with a base line of 3000-3500 calories.


I hear ya. Don't take my statement to mean I think IF for a mass cycle would be BAD; i'm just saying that I think a standard bbing diet would be more beneficial. If the calories are there, both will get the job done.




> Im talking about cycle geared for lean gains.
> For example a blast of say 350 to 400 mgs a week of a long estered test and maybe 800 mgs/week of primo or 350 mgs week of tren....


I'd be interested to know how you progress...

----------


## mockery

> Im talking about cycle geared for lean gains.
> For example a blast of say 350 to 400 mgs a week of a long estered test and maybe 800 mgs/week of primo or 350 mgs week of tren....


cycle geared for lean gains is only as good as the diet you're on for lean gains.

----------


## gbrice75

^^ this.

----------


## Far from massive

To me it's the "Warrior Diet" that is pure bro-science. The whole idea of that's what warriors ate or.. "the cave man did this or that".. LOL if you want to look like a cave man then by all means eat like one. Myself I doubt a cave man would do well on stage...as to the warriors, the guys in the movies are actors most warriors looked pathetic by body building standards. 

Do the Warrior and IF work? Of course, assuming you eat the correct macros/amounts they provide the appropriate nutrition to support your needs. Are they the long lost secret to sucess? Doubtful. 

The reason I eat 6 times a day is because eating clean it's really hard to pack 200-300 gms of protein into a single meal. Arnold about a hundred years ago said this same stuff in one of his first books. While you may be able to eat a huge meal and then work out later to exploit the feed zone then do cardio later to exploit the fast zone you can do the same stuff with fasted cardio in the morning. 

IMHO, if you are seeking fat loss and lean gains all you need to do is stick to a well structured diet and workouts and they will come over time. And for me the 4 - 6 meal deal allows me to eat comfortably, mainting mood and glycogen levels throughout the day. I am way too much of a prick to eat one big ass meal at home and starve at work....I would soon be unemployed LOL.

Anyway I am not knocking the Warrior, IF or any other approach that works for others, merely saying that macro's and calories are what determines body fat and musculature at a certain wieght and activity level. For me the 4-6 seems the easiest with 6 working well for me as I have a fast metabolism and small frame.

Just my 2 cents,

FFM

----------


## tboney

> cycle geared for lean gains is only as good as the diet you're on for lean gains.


Ofcourse! Thats my point?? Assuming that you are getting the same correct calories, does the IF method lend itself to lean gains as much as the coventional 4 to 6 clean meals a day?

----------


## --->>405<<---

personally im digging IF. waiting til 1300 to eat is no prob. plus its worth it for that big meal i get. then i get another one at 1700 and another at 2100. i havent been on it long enuff to determine how well it will or will not work for me but i seem to be getting leaner and im only on day4. 
eating 6 meals per day i never really got full. now i do and i like it.

----------


## RaginCajun

i also find that when i eat my first meal of the day (1200-1230), that i have a lot of energy. to where before, after lunch, i felt sluggish and was looking for a pickem upper!

----------


## gbrice75

> Do the Warrior and IF work? Of course, assuming you eat the correct macros/amounts they provide the appropriate nutrition to support your needs. *Are they the long lost secret to sucess? Doubtful*.


Agreed... but I haven't seen anybody making that claim.




> The reason I eat 6 times a day is because eating clean it's really hard to pack 200-300 gms of protein into a single meal. Arnold about a hundred years ago said this same stuff in one of his first books. While you may be able to eat a huge meal and then work out later to exploit the feed zone then do cardio later to exploit the fast zone you can do the same stuff with fasted cardio in the morning.


The warrior diet is the extreme side of IF - one meal a day. The Leangains approach ideally has you eating 3 meals per day - not impossible... depending on your total caloric intake. Again, I haven't seen any claims that this is THE WAY to diet. Rather, it debunks the long accepted mantra that you HAVE to eat frequent small meals. THAT is the broscience IMO. 




> IMHO, if you are seeking fat loss and lean gains all you need to do is stick to a well structured diet and workouts and they will come over time.


Agreed - and that's regardless of eating 1 or 8 meals in a day. 




> And for me the 4 - 6 meal deal allows me to eat comfortably, mainting mood and glycogen levels throughout the day.


Exactly - this is what works well for YOU - so it makes sense that you stick with it. For some people (I'm one of them), it's a pain in the ass, cumbersome, non-conducive to lifestyle, etc. IF offers an alternative approach that for some people, is MUCH more feasible and realistic. I don't know about you, but I am TIRED of thinking about food all day, prepping meals, cleaning dishes, cooking, etc. Furthermore, I never feel good eating small meals - I like to eat, and I only feel satisfied after a big meal. I feel MUCH better when I eat less frequent larger meals. 




> Anyway I am not knocking the Warrior, IF or any other approach that works for others, merely saying that macro's and calories are what determines body fat and musculature at a certain wieght and activity level.


More than anything else, yes. But that's not all there is to it IMO. Our bodies are complex and as such, we can take advantage of the way we process foods, partition nutrients, hormonal response to fasting/overfeeding, etc. When you really learn about it, it's very interesting. At least to me... but i'm a nutrition geek. 




> Just my 2 cents,
> 
> FFM


Glad you chimed in brother, I always appreciate intelligent debates.  :Smilie: 




> Ofcourse! Thats my point?? Assuming that you are getting the same correct calories, does the IF method lend itself to lean gains as much as the coventional 4 to 6 clean meals a day?


Definitely 'as much as'... some will argue MORE THAN - but IMO that will be determined by the individual. 




> personally im digging IF. waiting til 1300 to eat is no prob. plus its worth it for that big meal i get. then i get another one at 1700 and another at 2100. i havent been on it long enuff to determine how well it will or will not work for me but i seem to be getting leaner and im only on day4. 
> eating 6 meals per day i never really got full. now i do and i like it.


Same here. Always hungry on small frequent feedings. I was barely finished with one meal and was already watching the clock for the next meal. Never the case with IF for obvious reasons.




> i also find that when i eat my first meal of the day (1200-1230), that i have a lot of energy. to where before, after lunch, i felt sluggish and was looking for a pickem upper!


x2. After being fasted for 16+ hours, I get this HUGE surge of energy and sense of well being after that first meal. Hormones... endorphines... I think it's important to point out that I do NOT feel crappy or lethargic throughout the fasted period. I've mentioned many times that I have had some of my best most intense workouts during this state. Epinephrine and Norepenephrine... look em' up!  :Wink:

----------


## cue_artist

I would like to post a sample of the IF diet that im doing right now and has been working nicely for. I am doing both carb cycling and IF 

Stats are :
weight : 190 lbs 
height : 177 cm
Age : 24 
bf: 10%

Supplement: chromium, multivatims, vitamin c , b complex, niacin , fish oil, cellucor c4 preworkout, and concrete creatine

Carb cycle: 
high day: 300 g of carbs + 2 cups veggies , 200 g protein, all fats come naturally from food + 3 g fish oil,
medium: 200 g of carbs + 2 cups veggies , 230 g protein, up fats by 1 serving consisting of 12 almonds + 3 g fish oil
low: 100 g of carbs + 2 cups veggies , 260 g protein, up fats by 2 serving ( 24 almonds) + 3 fish oil
low: 100 g of carbs + 2 cups veggies , 260 g protein , up fats by 2 serving ( 24 almonds) + 3 fish oil
low: 100 g of carbs + 2 cups veggies , 260 g protein , up fats by 2 serving ( 24 almonds) + 3 fish oil
low: no starchy carbs (3 cups veggies) , 290 g protein, up fats by 3 servings ( 24 almonds) + 1 teaspoon evoo + 3 fish oil

protein sources: egg whites only , salamon, tilapia, chicken breasts, red meat (daily) , tuna, protein powder (zero carb + zero fat )
carb sources: cream of rice, white rice, brown rice, oats, yams

Workout : 75 mins weight training 5 times a weak after my first meal 
Cardio: 7 times a weak 50 mins session before breaking my fast

----------


## mockery

> I would like to post a sample of the IF diet that im doing right now and has been working nicely for. I am doing both carb cycling and IF 
> 
> Stats are :
> weight : 190 lbs 
> height : 177 cm
> Age : 24 
> bf: 10%
> 
> Supplement: chromium, multivatims, vitamin c , b complex, niacin , fish oil, cellucor c4 preworkout, and concrete creatine
> ...


7 days a week fasted cardio? is this to maintain a low body fat % all year?

----------


## cue_artist

> 7 days a week fasted cardio? is this to maintain a low body fat % all year?


I am contest preping bro thats why i have so much cardio . But even when not contest preping i still do 35 mins of low intensity fasted cardio 3 times a week .

----------


## mockery

talking to a heavweight amature that took first place and will be going for his nation pro card next year, he was asking me if IF protocol could work for him being under 9% bf in off season. Id love to get him on If , maybe a 24 hour one once a week with a refeed day and see if i can coach him well enough to stay on for 3-4 months and see if it helps him get his pro card.

----------


## gbrice75

> talking to a heavweight amature that took first place and will be going for his nation pro card next year, he was asking me if IF protocol could work for him being under 9% bf in off season. Id love to get him on If , maybe a *24 hour one once a week with a refeed day* and see if i can coach him well enough to stay on for 3-4 months and see if it helps him get his pro card.


I wouldn't really consider this IF. More like a regular diet with a single 24 hour fast incorporated once a week.

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## AXx

> I wouldn't really consider this IF. More like a regular diet with a single 24 hour fast incorporated once a week.


How is this working out for ya buddy? You doing it on your complete rest day? Or do you have one? Dont wanna overtrain, lol. <<<<Referring to your thread, sorry humor is kinda hard when your tying it.  :Wink/Grin:

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## gbrice75

> How is this working out for ya buddy? You doing it on your complete rest day? Or do you have one? Dont wanna overtrain, lol. <<<<Referring to your thread, sorry humor is kinda hard when your tying it.


 :LOL: 

I'm currently off IF atm. But I always come back. Time and place for everything.

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## mockery

> I'm currently off IF atm. But I always come back. Time and place for everything.


where are you with your diet and training currently? everything is always about everyone else. What has Gbruce been up to.

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## Razor

Mock hows is IF going for you?

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## mockery

was great i only did it for 3 weeks as i needed two weeks maintance for my hormones to get use to calories from being in a -900 calorie deficit. So i could start a mini cycle.. will get back on If later, mind you i think my test is bunk and my mast is the bomb so this cycle is gonna be pointless unless i scrap my 3 bottles of test and get ones from the company i got the mast from.. but its hard to throw money around like that,

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## greenwell001

I have been doing an 16/8 IF for a pretty good while. I got from 20%bf to 14%bf pretty quick, about 3 months at maintenance with a lot of HIIT. I recently got on gear (12 wk 500mg/wk test e)and upped the cals to average 500 over maintenance, while still doing the IF. I'm pretty much.staying around same bf. I have almost completely cut out the HIIT, except for 400M repeats with some prowlers and burpees. My goal is to put on 15-20 lbs of lean gains with traditional BB training and last 4 wks of 12 wk cycle re introduce the full HIIT powerlifting schedule that I love but obviously with more power. My question is would dropping cals to maintenance the last 4 weeks compromise the gains severely. I don't know how motivated I will be to do cardio and HIIT powerlifting on PCT. This is my first cycle so I don't really know what to expect with pct.

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## jojocircus03

My trainer had me start IF back in Feb. and I have had great success at losing and maintaining the weight loss while keeping my energy levels high. I fast 14-16 hours and my eating window is always 8 hours. My meals in the past were post workout-8oz protien, 1.5 c veggies, half an avocado or a serving of almonds, and 1/2 c carbs; next meal was 6 oz protien, 1.5 cups veggies; last meal was 3 egg whites and 1.5 cups veggies or casein protien shake with unsweetened almond milk. I should mention that I am female. I am at a point where I have only maintained, but still need to lose. Recently I switched my meal style to CKD ( so basically all protiens and upping them from lean protiens to fattier) but still staying with the 16 hour fast and 8 hour eating window. My question is that my Ketone levels are much higher at the end of my 8 hour eating window then they are post workout. Does anyone know a reason for this because my trainer and I are baffled?

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## Razor

I am going to start IF but only on the weekends when I am not doing any lifting, does anyone here only do IF on the weekends and what do you eat. I was thinking of starting to just eat one huge breakfast of whatever, omelets, potatoes english muffin and a protein shake, so still relatively healthy, I wanted Saturday and Sunday mornings and fast throughout the day, if I get to hungry just a light protein shake with 1/3 cup of oats at night. Mockery what are you thoughts on this?

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## mockery

> I am going to start IF but only on the weekends when I am not doing any lifting, does anyone here only do IF on the weekends and what do you eat. I was thinking of starting to just eat one huge breakfast of whatever, omelets, potatoes english muffin and a protein shake, so still relatively healthy, I wanted Saturday and Sunday mornings and fast throughout the day, if I get to hungry just a light protein shake with 1/3 cup of oats at night. Mockery what are you thoughts on this?


Best for you would be _24 hour fast._ so have your Saturday morning brunch at 11am, then no food no protein, no bcaa until Sunday morning at 11. NO FOOD NO NOTHING. U might be cranky, angry and hate the world. Drink green tea and boat loads of water. 

Daily fast or any fast for that matter can not have calories! none , zip zero! 16hours+ plus fast releases GH pulses that get stronger at 18 hours and best bang for your buck at 20 hours but still increase towards 24 hours.

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## K88

I've been on IF for about the past two weeks and honestly I think I'm about to drop it. I was very optimistic starting out and I've been doing at least a 16 hr fast but usually closer to 20 hrs since that's more convenient with my work schedule. I work 12 hr shifts of somewhat physical work and contrary to what I read I felt like I had much less energy during the day while in a fasted state. I actually feel tired and kind of weak and not very sharp mentally. Then when I get home from work and consume all my daily calories in a short time I enjoy eating the large meals but then I feel bloated and usually fall asleep pretty quickly after that and have an upset stomach into the next morning. I want to make sure I'm giving it an honest attempt because a lot of people have good results with it but so far it's just kind of resulted in me feeling crappy in both the fasted and fed states like I described above and I don't think see any difference with body fat.

On the positive side it though I like being able to eat a lot at once while I'm actually eating it and it does make it more convienient for meal prep and scheduling and performing fasted cardio but for me I think that so far the negatives outweigh the positives.

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## Razor

> Best for you would be _24 hour fast._ so have your Saturday morning brunch at 11am, then no food no protein, no bcaa until Sunday morning at 11. NO FOOD NO NOTHING. U might be cranky, angry and hate the world. Drink green tea and boat loads of water. 
> 
> Daily fast or any fast for that matter can not have calories! none , zip zero! 16hours+ plus fast releases GH pulses that get stronger at 18 hours and best bang for your buck at 20 hours but still increase towards 24 hours.


How do I stay anabolic and keep my muscles from going catabolic during this phase without BCAA's or protein?

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## mockery

> I've been on IF for about the past two weeks and honestly I think I'm about to drop it. I was very optimistic starting out and I've been doing at least a 16 hr fast but usually closer to 20 hrs since that's more convenient with my work schedule. I work 12 hr shifts of somewhat physical work and contrary to what I read I felt like I had much less energy during the day while in a fasted state. I actually feel tired and kind of weak and not very sharp mentally. Then when I get home from work and consume all my daily calories in a short time I enjoy eating the large meals but then I feel bloated and usually fall asleep pretty quickly after that and have an upset stomach into the next morning. I want to make sure I'm giving it an honest attempt because a lot of people have good results with it but so far it's just kind of resulted in me feeling crappy in both the fasted and fed states like I described above and I don't think see any difference with body fat.
> 
> On the positive side it though I like being able to eat a lot at once while I'm actually eating it and it does make it more convienient for meal prep and scheduling and performing fasted cardio but for me I think that so far the negatives outweigh the positives.


you never drop anything you adjust, you find whats not working. stick with the 16 hours fast. and have a shake at the 16 hour window so you get food in you. Still drink coffee for being alert... your hormones have to adjust to the protocol before you will reap all the benefits.

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## mockery

> How do I stay anabolic and keep my muscles from going catabolic during this phase without BCAA's or protein?


you wont go into a catabolic state while fasting. not if you are eating healthy the other 6 days, and are doing regular resistance training 3 times a week or more. Further more on gear you wont become catabolic, You need to stop believing this myth. u would only take bcaa if you are training but it sounds like its your off days. ? Your body has had a large amount of calories through out the week, your muscles are full of water and stored converted carbs. It takes calories to burn fat, with no calories fasting alows your body to burn fat straight up. and muscle protein break down is the last on a short list of the pecking order of what gets used for fuel first when there is no new calories.

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## mockery

> you wont go into a catatonic state while fasting. not if you are eating healthy the other 6 days, and are doing regular resistance training 3 times a week or more. Further more on gear you wont become catabolic, You need to stop believing this myth. u would only take bcaa if you are training but it sounds like its your off days. ? Your body has had a large amount of calories through out the week, your muscles are full of water and stored converted carbs. It takes calories to burn fat, with no calories fasting alows your body to burn fat straight up. and muscle protein break down is the last on a short list of the pecking order of what gets used for fuel first when there is no new calories.


further more, what you think is hunger alot of times is your body asking for water, and even further further more not eating for 2 hours and thinking you are hungry isnt really hunger at all, its teh dependancy on sugar, the social aspect of eating with friends, media and marketing telling you to eat. When i cut sugar out of my diet i stopped being hungry . Hungry .. real hunger is something that would set in after LONG periods of time with no food. not OH SHIT I NEED TO EAT ITS BE 2.5 hours omfg! Its like the mythical window for PWO shake after the gym.... dude you just ate before the gym your body hasnt gone catabolic from Resistance training and light cardio after lol... sooner people come to terms with this faster they will advance their lifting ability.

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## Razor

> you wont go into a catatonic state while fasting. not if you are eating healthy the other 6 days, and are doing regular resistance training 3 times a week or more. Further more on gear you wont become catabolic, You need to stop believing this myth. u would only take bcaa if you are training but it sounds like its your off days. ? Your body has had a large amount of calories through out the week, your muscles are full of water and stored converted carbs. It takes calories to burn fat, with no calories fasting alows your body to burn fat straight up. and muscle protein break down is the last on a short list of the pecking order of what gets used for fuel first when there is no new calories.


Ok great thank you for that, I feel much better about doing this already. So since I didnt make it a full day today without eating I will try again tomorrow, have a big breakfast in the AM then go a complete 24 hours without any food, protein, carbs, fats or BCAA's

Another thing, how would taking BCAA's during a fast negatively effect a fasting day? From my perspective it could only help but you are the expert on these things so I am interested to hear more about that.

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## mockery

waste of money, even though you appear to be loaded haha. Its about removing any intake of any sort of calories. Yes peopel think they have wiggle room, but why? do it right or dont do it at all. alow your body to addampt to fasting it will teach u alot more about hunger, cravings and eating that is pricless and no one else can teach you this, then that aside the dietairy positive effects it has is a further bonus.

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## Razor

> waste of money, even though you appear to be loaded haha. Its about removing any intake of any sort of calories. Yes peopel think they have wiggle room, but why? do it right or dont do it at all. alow your body to addampt to fasting it will teach u alot more about hunger, cravings and eating that is pricless and no one else can teach you this, then that aside the dietairy positive effects it has is a further bonus.


I do have money lol. 3 jobs is how I come up with it. But I will take all this into testing tomorrow! thx. I will probably be posting on here tomorrow about being hungry and miserable, im used to eating 8 times a day, so will need some support to stay on the straight path.

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## mockery

it will suck, but power through it. shits not easy hence why its not on infomercials at 3am on tv,, yet

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## Razor

> it will suck, but power through it. shits not easy hence why its not on infomercials at 3am on tv,, yet


HAHA understood!

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## mockery

body by mockery, send me some tren out of your stash we call it even.

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## Tx89

You guys realize that catabolism is a completely normal thing to occur to your body that happens every single Day, right? Without being in a catabolic state u wont ever burn a gram of fat, ever. Also catabolism greatly enhances your PWO anabolism (if food choices are correct) --> glycogen supercompensation.

Concerning bcaas: I used to not take them too and thought all or nothing. But recently read a study about it where it said they greatly(!) increased your protein synthesis ability and pwo anabolism capacity. Take em since then and feel better in my workouts, could be mental though.

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## fatman225

> I do have money lol. 3 jobs is how I come up with it. But I will take all this into testing tomorrow! thx. I will probably be posting on here tomorrow about being hungry and miserable, im used to eating 8 times a day, so will need some support to stay on the straight path.


You might actually find that your first day of it is easier than you thought it would be. I think part of our "hunger" and the feelings that come from it are triggered by eating small amounts of food, where in the completely fasted state you feel less hungry.

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## Razor

Okay Mock I'm 8 hours into my 24 hour fast. Starting to get hungry, gonna start pounding water like you said.

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## Razor

10 hours grrrrrr

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## mockery

cmon solider! if you are idel you will get hungry stay busy!! do something. , clean something go or for a walk! almost bed time now then you can hit the sack.

if you awake hunger dont break the fast hold out till 11!

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## greenwell001

> waste of money, even though you appear to be loaded haha. Its about removing any intake of any sort of calories. Yes peopel think they have wiggle room, but why? do it right or dont do it at all. alow your body to addampt to fasting it will teach u alot more about hunger, cravings and eating that is pricless and no one else can teach you this, then that aside the dietairy positive effects it has is a further bonus.


 One of the greatest sides of fasting is that your enzyme levels in your gut have ample time to restore, and your liver stays nice and detoxed. If these systems arent working right no amount of gear or diet will get you to your goal. I have been doing IF daily 16/8 for a long time and prob far into the future, of course i cheat on sundays but hey it works for me.

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## Razor

> cmon solider! if you are idel you will get hungry stay busy!! do something. , clean something go or for a walk! almost bed time now then you can hit the sack.
> 
> if you awake hunger dont break the fast hold out till 11!


11 hours or 11 oclock? IM frivoulsly typing a gyno thread up for the forum to keep busy

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## mockery

when did you start your fast? i was assuming you started it at 11am

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## Razor

Yup 11am

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## mockery

breakfast might be a bitch for you since media has taught us its so important.. yet with no scientific facts supporting, i say **** breakfast.

I met a older man who has been fasting for 20 years, every Wednesday. Its the day his family leaves him alone "grumpy day on the calendar" he doesnt lift or train, he just does it cause it makes him feel better. The guy looks young for his age and in shape. 20 years... must be something worth whiled to stick with it.

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## Razor

> breakfast might be a bitch for you since media has taught us its so important.. yet with no scientific facts supporting, i say **** breakfast.
> 
> I met a older man who has been fasting for 20 years, every Wednesday. Its the day his family leaves him alone "grumpy day on the calendar" he doesnt lift or train, he just does it cause it makes him feel better. The guy looks young for his age and in shape. 20 years... must be something worth whiled to stick with it.


OK so do I need to go 16 hours without eating or the full 24? And will doing this 1-2 days a week on the weekend make an differences for me short or long term?

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## capetown

I think u are on the 16/8. The 24 hours are not everyday. There are a few variations of the plan but all have the same effect.

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## capetown

Sorry, just read back. I guess u are on a 24 hr. good luck and stay busy.

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## Razor

> I think u are on the 16/8. The 24 hours are not everyday. There are a few variations of the plan but all have the same effect.


So I can eat at say 2-3am this morning? Time to go pound a liter-o-cola...i mean liter-o-water!!

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## mockery

no mate ur on a 1 day a week 24 hour fast

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## Razor

> no mate ur on a 1 day a week 24 hour fast


water it is for dinner, i had a few questions above too

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## mockery

do be looking for teh difference it will be making, everyone does that with IF protocols. Learn from it, learn about hunger learn about your body. Get all zen like and shit with it. dont weigh yourself before or the day after your fast. Just do it! its now apart of your life 1 day a week you will fast for 24 hours to better yourself. Its just part of teh routine now, eat , sleep , shit, fast

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## Razor

> do be looking for teh difference it will be making, everyone does that with IF protocols. Learn from it, learn about hunger learn about your body. Get all zen like and shit with it. dont weigh yourself before or the day after your fast. Just do it! its now apart of your life 1 day a week you will fast for 24 hours to better yourself. Its just part of teh routine now, eat , sleep , shit, fast


sounds good! i cant wait to see what i feel like tomorrow to do fasted cardio ontop of this 24 hour period, or should i not do that, just eat in the AM no fasted cardio

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## RaginCajun

> sounds good! i cant wait to see what i feel like tomorrow to do fasted cardio ontop of this 24 hour period, or should i not do that, just eat in the AM no fasted cardio



just have 10g BCAA's and you should be fine

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## mockery

*dont take bcaa before fasted cardio!!!*

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## mockery

But feel free to do fasted cardio of course life your life the same, so if you do cardio still do it. *Only use the 10g bcaa before resistance training, not cardio thou!!*

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## Razor

> But feel free to do fasted cardio of course life your life the same, so if you do cardio still do it. Only use the 10g bcaa before resistance training, not cardio thou!!


Dude think I made it man!! Ireally think i did!!! Only 2-3 more hours and my hunger subsided im not even hungry right now!! I'm just laying in bed phasing in and out of sleep and drinking water. I'm gonna go to the gym at 10 and do the cardio, be done by 11 then eat 10 times today

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## mockery

dont binge just eat your regular daily macros for today.

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## mockery

i will say this, you can take "powdered greens" on a fast as long as they are not mixed with filler that has a calorie count. Greens are the shit.

greens, green tea and water. fast fast

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## Razor

> i will say this, you can take "powdered greens" on a fast as long as they are not mixed with filler that has a calorie count. Greens are the shit.
> 
> greens, green tea and water. fast fast


Ok good to know. I'm trying to figure out if I'm going to skip the fasted cardio or not..what do you think?

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## mockery

why skip it?

just go on about your business as usual. just dont eat

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## mockery

fasted cardio and fasted resistance training is GOOD FOR YOU... you just ate yesterday morning... you're not gonna die or lose muscle or grow a third testicle. Its ok mate! you will be fine

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## AXx

> fasted cardio and fasted resistance training is GOOD FOR YOU... you just ate yesterday morning... you're not gonna die or lose muscle or grow a third testicle. Its ok mate! you will be fine


I'm gonna test this matter out in the fall. Bulking and still doing IF while on gear.  :Wink/Grin:

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## Razor

> fasted cardio and fasted resistance training is GOOD FOR YOU... you just ate yesterday morning... you're not gonna die or lose muscle or grow a third testicle. Its ok mate! you will be fine


Ok here I go! Pinning some gh and gonna go for it

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## Razor

10 minutes down into a 45 minute fasted cardio state for 24 hours, feeling great, tons of energy. I would not even know any different if I had eaten before coming in here or not. Already look a bit leaner after this too, 23 hours and 15 minutes!!

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## mockery

> 10 minutes down into a 45 minute fasted cardio state for 24 hours, feeling great, tons of energy. I would not even know any different if I had eaten before coming in here or not. Already look a bit leaner after this too, 23 hours and 15 minutes!!


the energy u get in a fasted state is well pretty nifty. it was for me , i was stronger and faster when lifting in a fasted state.

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## Razor

> the energy u get in a fasted state is well pretty nifty. it was for me , i was stronger and faster when lifting in a fasted state.


I know it's great!! I just blew past 45 minutes, now going for 60minutes

60 minutes done, 600 cals

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## mockery

if i can add my 2 cents, if you eat right you probaly only need 2 hours cardio a week. and u will find once you get the tren pumping through you ... cardio will suck. maybe 3 40min session a week. somthing to consider.

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## Razor

> if i can add my 2 cents, if you eat right you probaly only need 2 hours cardio a week. and u will find once you get the tren pumping through you ... cardio will suck. maybe 3 40min session a week. somthing to consider.


Ok awesome

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## Razor

Meal well deserved

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## mockery

why all the ketchup and sugar shizzel? that stuff will tank a perfect diet IMO. cut out all sugar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if you wanna hit 225 seriously and look like your old avi.. you gonna be strict.

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## greenwell001

> i will say this, you can take "powdered greens" on a fast as long as they are not mixed with filler that has a calorie count. Greens are the shit.
> 
> greens, green tea and water. fast fast


 I break my fast with athletic greens. imo fasting is fasting, nothing but water and lots of it. Any spike in insulin while on fast is no good, ruins the whole concept.

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## mockery

oh have quality greens that wont spike your insulin .

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## Razor

> why all the ketchup and sugar shizzel? that stuff will tank a perfect diet IMO. cut out all sugar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if you wanna hit 225 seriously and look like your old avi.. you gonna be strict.


i know i know, it wasnt that much ketchup :Smilie:

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## mockery

1 tbs is what 5 carbs 4 sugar? !!

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## Razor

Ok so my seconds day of IF I did a 17/7

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## mockery

if you only wanna fast on the weekend , just do the 24 hour fast. or you have to program and do the daily fast protocol. its not good for your hormones to random fast from the best of my knowledge.

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## mockery

and from tried and true tested data 2 day a week fasts are not GTG. so look at 24 hour fast - 30 hour fast even 1 time a week. or do you daily 7 days a week. but stick with it for 12 weeks

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## Razor

> if you only wanna fast on the weekend , just do the 24 hour fast. or you have to program and do the daily fast protocol. its not good for your hormones to random fast from the best of my knowledge.


If I get all my meals in from 9am-7pm then I fast from 7pm to 10am. It should work right

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## mockery

your weekend fast is great cause you can eat Saturday morning till 12pm. so you get breaky and lunch in ya.. fast for 30 hours. breat your fast at 6pm sunday night. you get dinner, another meal and bed time source . then back to normal Monday morning,

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## mockery

> If I get all my meals in from 9am-7pm then I fast from 7pm to 10am. It should work right


with your calorie intake and gear you will be using do you think you can eat this much in a 7-8 hour feed window, 3 massive meals??

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## Razor

> with your calorie intake and gear you will be using do you think you can eat this much in a 7-8 hour feed window, 3 massive meals??


Not on gear yet so I will let you know

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## mockery

> Not on gear yet so I will let you know


u have your cycle, its a matter of time. dont start this and then jump into your cycle..

u need a two week bridge after eating at maintenance to restore your hormones from the fasts or eating in a deficit so you need a solid plan and you need to adjust to whats coming up in your future . are you not gonna blast for at least 3 months?

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## Razor

> u have your cycle, its a matter of time. dont start this and then jump into your cycle..
> 
> u need a two week bridge after eating at maintenance to restore your hormones from the fasts or eating in a deficit so you need a solid plan and you need to adjust to whats coming up in your future . are you not gonna blast for at least 3 months?


Yes gonna blast for 3 months

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## mockery

no i mean are you waiting at least three months before you start the blast?

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## jacobk91

I want to try if but I have a question. When I'm cutting I like to drink bccaas during my workout. if I was training fasted in the am would that count as breaking my fast even though it has no calories? I drink ten grams before and 20 to thirty grams during training.

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## Tx89

Its not too bad if you do this, but if u wanna do it perfectly I'd limit myself to ~10g bcaas

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## mockery

> I want to try if but I have a question. When I'm cutting I like to drink bccaas during my workout. if I was training fasted in the am would that count as breaking my fast even though it has no calories? I drink ten grams before and 20 to thirty grams during training.


yes its counted as breaking your fast.


It takes calories to burn fat, if you have no calories to burn, u will burn fat stores as calories to burn fat...

now if you have a source of calories inside you your body will use that, i think the idea of using bcaa is just to stop people from modifying the fast to their bro science logic. People argue if you use bcaa just use protein powder. where does it end?

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## gbrice75

> I want to try if but I have a question. When I'm cutting I like to drink bccaas during my workout. if I was training fasted in the am would that count as breaking my fast even though it has no calories? I drink ten grams before and 20 to thirty grams during training.


Technically, it's breaking your fast, however it's the lesser of 2 evils IMO. Training in a completely fasted state, especially high volume and/or intensity, is just a bad idea. BCAA's will at least provide what's needed to kickstart protein synthesis and/or at least blunt muscle breakdown to a degree. 




> People argue if you use bcaa just use protein powder. where does it end?


This is just silly. BCAA's and protein powder aren't comparable. Protein powder has WAY more calories and would do much more 'harm' with regards to breaking a fast. 

@Jacobk91 - BCAA's *do* contain calories. Not many, but they're in there.

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## mockery

> *Technically, it's breaking your fast, however it's the lesser of 2 evils IMO. Training in a completely fasted state, especially high volume and/or intensity, is just a bad idea. BCAA's will at least provide what's needed to kickstart protein synthesis and/or at least blunt muscle breakdown to a degree. 
> *
> 
> 
> This is just silly. BCAA's and protein powder aren't comparable. Protein powder has WAY more calories and would do much more 'harm' with regards to breaking a fast. 
> 
> @Jacobk91 - BCAA's *do* contain calories. Not many, but they're in there.


i am curious about the science behind this, if technically the synthesis happens in the rest/sleep phase of our lives. Does it even play a role on fasted training?

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## 951thompson

> Technically, it's breaking your fast, however it's the lesser of 2 evils IMO. Training in a completely fasted state, especially high volume and/or intensity, is just a bad idea. BCAA's will at least provide what's needed to kickstart protein synthesis and/or at least blunt muscle breakdown to a degree.
> 
> This is just silly. BCAA's and protein powder aren't comparable. Protein powder has WAY more calories and would do much more 'harm' with regards to breaking a fast.
> 
> @Jacobk91 - BCAA's do contain calories. Not many, but they're in there.


Im on leangains IF I wouldn't call it a diet it's more of a eating style as you can eat at a deficit for fat loss or at a surplus for muscle gains, I shredded loads of fat on this diet. Im now using this style of eating to bulk. Im on my first ever cycle of sustonon and winny, 3 weeks in and I've gained 12lb!

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## gbrice75

> i am curious about the science behind this, if technically the synthesis happens in the rest/sleep phase of our lives. Does it even play a role on fasted training?


The precursors to synthesis will be in place at least. Anabolism is at it's peak while we sleep, but that doesn't mean it's completely dormant while we're awake. The idea in this case isn't necessarily to promote synthesis, but rather to halt breakdown. I'm pretty sure Martin has some info on this over at Leangains. I'll try and dig it up when I get a chance.




> Im on leangains IF I wouldn't call it a diet it's more of a eating style as you can eat at a deficit for fat loss or at a surplus for muscle gains, I shredded loads of fat on this diet. Im now using this style of eating to bulk. Im on my first ever cycle of sustonon and winny, 3 weeks in and I've gained 12lb!


Nice, congrats!

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## mockery

> Im on leangains IF I wouldn't call it a diet it's more of a eating style as you can eat at a deficit for fat loss or at a surplus for muscle gains, I shredded loads of fat on this diet. Im now using this style of eating to bulk. Im on my first ever cycle of sustonon and winny, 3 weeks in and I've gained 12lb!


whats your biggest calorie day? im not sure if i could eat 3 meals only in a massive calorie surplus

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## 951thompson

> whats your biggest calorie day? im not sure if i could eat 3 meals only in a massive calorie surplus


On training days I eat 3000 cals that's a 600 cal surplus, on none training days I get though 2700. It's not so bad once you get used to it, I have 3 meals per day in a 6-7 hour window. My biggest meal comes post work out, I eat alot of starchy food post workout to give my depleted muscles a super charged insulin spike lol I will get though 1500 cals in my post workout meal. You do feel stuffed when you get though all of your calories, I like to have a nap after my last meal, when I wake I can feel myself growing, its mental! It's a good thing to do have a nap because digestion makes you tired, sleep = "growth, with that amount of food in your belly = mega growth lol and I have to say when the food comes out of the other end you drop some huge turds lol im talking about the size of a babies arm big lol yeah you drop some heavy poops!

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## ppwc1985

It's not as hard as you think to get cals, my pwo shake is around 1600 cals by itself, I use muscle techs mass tech which is technically a weight gainer but u add two extra scoops of whey I get in big bags from Costco. That's half my cal right there.

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## mockery

> It's not as hard as you think to get cals, my pwo shake is around 1600 cals by itself, I use muscle techs mass tech which is technically a weight gainer but u add two extra scoops of whey I get in big bags from Costco. That's half my cal right there.


to me that is dirty dieting cause of teh sugars and chemicals in the weight gainer.

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## Tx89

> to me that is dirty dieting cause of teh sugars and chemicals in the weight gainer.


Agreed. To me those gainers are the most unnecessary sups around

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## 951thompson

> Agreed. To me those gainers are the most unnecessary sups around


I agree, you may as well just eat a bag of sugar lol

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## 951thompson

> to me that is dirty dieting cause of teh sugars and chemicals in the weight gainer.


I actually got though all of my calories today and was still hungry, greedy bugger I am lol

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## mockery

another issue for me is when i eat my biggest meal 10 minutes after im ready for bed, coma style. i havent learned how to deal with this yet and can be an issue while im at work.

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## 951thompson

> another issue for me is when i eat my biggest meal 10 minutes after im ready for bed, coma style. i havent learned how to deal with this yet and can be an issue while im at work.


Why don't you move your eating window, so you have a small meal at dinnertime at work then the rest of your calories at home? I know what you mean tho after I have my biggest meal im out like a light lol

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## Razor

Mock doing a 34h fast started last night @2am till tomorrow at 10am

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## mockery

> Mock doing a 34h fast started last night @2am till tomorrow at 10am


nice, lets us know how you go.

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## gbrice75

Bump!

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## milky01623

> Bump!


Hey gb i was reading your oat pancakes recipe how much in grams is "4 packs of Splenda "
Sorry to hijack
Milky

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## Ben_66

The proposed benefits of IF in animals and humans read like a laundry list of “look
better,” “feel better,” “live longer” physiological changes. These include:
REDUCED
• blood lipids (including decreased triglycerides and LDL cholesterol)
• blood pressure (perhaps through changes in sympathetic/parasympathetic activity)
• markers of inflammation (including CRP, IL-6, TNF, BDNF, and more)
• oxidative stress (using markers of protein, lipid, and DNA damage)
• risk of cancer 

INCREASED
• cellular turnover and repair (called autophagocytosis)
• fat burning (increase in fatty acid oxidation later in the fast)
• growth hormone release later in the fast (hormonally mediated)
• metabolic rate later in the fast (stimulated by epinephrine and norepinephrine
release)
IMPROVED
• appetite control (perhaps through changes in PPY and ghrelin)
• blood sugar control (by lowering blood glucose and increasing insulin sensitivity)
• cardiovascular function (by offering protection against ischemic injury to the heart)
• effectiveness of chemotherapy (by allowing for higher doses more frequently)
• neurogenesis and neuronal plasticity (by offering protection against neurotoxins)

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## gbrice75

BUMP!!! For Deucefan

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## wh1spa

> BUMP!!! For Deucefan


Bump because im going to do this. Looking at at 19/5 with two meals, 1 pre / 1 pwo.

Alot more research to be done -_-

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## gbrice75

Bump for T-dogg  :Wink:

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## t-dogg

Im doing this diet now. Sunday I did a 12hr fast. Wends ill do another 12hr fast and the following sunday Im shooting for 24hrs.

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