# STEROIDS FORUM > HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY- Low T, Anti-Aging >  Can low testosterone level cause chronic pain?

## yannick35

I have been having chronic pain for about 10 years now after injuring myself on squats and deadlifts.

My lower back ligaments got laxed and with the tone of incopetent idiots out there i paid so much money before i found a prolotherapist that treated the condition.

By them chronic pain had time to set in, depression due to unresolved pain, lack of activity, and all around bad posture that caused neck pain as well.

After a recent blood test my medical doctor found out i was still anemic even after eating meat and eggs and all hemp iron containing foods. He decided to put me on TRT.

I do not have low sex drive or erectile disfonction, but i have been told that low testosterone level can have a lot of symptoms, i do have depression and mood swings, lack of energy and slept a lot before starting androgel about a week ago. Things are getting better but that is another story.

I wanted to know if having low test level can cause chronic pain, i suppose due to the body not being able to repair itself adequatly.

My medical doctor told me going back to the gym would be worthless in this state and that i had to get my test up in the 800 at least. This is the plan for the next 4 months.

I will of course switch to injectibles to attain this goal i do not think i can do it with androgel.

My medical doctor put me on TRT and he still does not have my testosterone results, but he said with all is years of experience and the symptoms that i am not in optimal range.

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## bass

i had muscle pains for many years before TRT, few weeks after TRT and all pains are gone with the exception of joint pain, but even that is much better than it used to be.

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## yannick35

that is great news i cannot wait to see the results after a few weeks of real TRT and get off that androgel stuff

Thanks for reply bass. I have a lot more muscle pains then joint pains right now. Thank god for prolotherapy.

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## Shol'va

I'm no expert so a knowledgeable one will need to chime in on this. There you go Bass and the rest of you knowledgeable yahoos. I mean that in the nicest way BTW. :Smilie:  But from everything I know on Androgel , even if your doctor put you on the maximum allowable which is 10 grams daily if memory serves, you would still come up short on getting to 800 on test level. There are way to many variables with the creams and gels to get you that high. Absorbtion, transferrance to clothes while sweating etc. IMO. I didn't catch your test levels before you started on gel so I'm assuming low 200's. But still I just don't believe Androgel will be right for you especially since the Doc is going for you to get in the 800's. And in my opinion that Doc is a keeper because most Docs are satisfied with upper 400's 500's range.So if he is wanting you up that high that's great especially if it helps your condition. And I don't know about you but I'd much rather take Test to solve my depression issues than those crazy SSRI's Anti-depression pills like zoloft, paxil, welbutrin, etc. Not saying for those that take them and they work for them, hey fine. But I'm one who cannot take those pills for adverse reactions. They make me think I'm a straight man when I take them.jk But no they do mess with some peoples reality like mine making me think that I was dreaming when I wasn't. It was wierd. So I don't take them and my test is too high for me to go TRT at the moment. But I will be on TRT one day as I had some motorcycle crashes at a younger age causing head trauma. And the doc said back then that most kids who suffer blunt head trauma at an early age end up with their pituitary gland shutting down a little later in life. So it's constantly being monitored for any changes. Every 6 months. Testosterone is supposed to help with building of your bones and ligaments and such so hey it can't hurt to try. We all deserve to live a happy, healthy, pain free life and I hope you get there.

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## JD250

> but i have been told that low testosterone level can have a lot of symptoms, i do have depression and mood swings, lack of energy and slept a lot before starting androgel about a week ago. Things are getting better but that is another story.
> 
> I wanted to know if having low test level can cause chronic pain, i suppose due to the body not being able to repair itself adequatly.
> 
> My medical doctor told me going back to the gym would be worthless in this state and that i had to get my test up in the 800 at least. This is the plan for the next 4 months.
> 
> I will of course switch to injectibles to attain this goal i do not think i can do it with androgel.
> 
> My medical doctor put me on TRT and he still does not have my testosterone results, but he said with all is years of experience and the symptoms that i am not in optimal range.


Sounds like you and your doc are headed in the right direction.

I know everyone is different but I had almost unbearable chronic pains.....everywhere.....that led to depression......I have a sore back from time to time like everyone else after a long day but my life is 100% better since TRT, all those unexplained pains are gone, I feel great and imagine that you will too.....good luck bro and keep us updated in this thread.

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## jamotech

Id say low t can restrict proper muscle growth, repairing itself... chronic pain is usually due a weakness whether from an injury or abnormality. I made the mistake of getting cortisone in the past for my back after I stopped going to the gym. The pain was getting worse and chiros werent working. Took me years to realize it was mostly bad posture... lifting with the bad posture made it worse. Also quite a few sports injuries , ive been trying to correct these problems naturally for the past two years. Some areas have improved, some not so much...considering how long ive been doing PT. That one of the biggest reasons im on trt now, to help repair damage.

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## Vettester

Sorry to be the spoiler here, but hitting 800 on the serum level is most certainly achievable with Androgel . I'm no fan of Androgel by any means, in fact just the opposite. However, I started out on Gel when I first started TRT, and my baseline was in the 200's. The first couple of months put me at/around 600 and 700, but after about 5 months it was >1,200. 

As mentioned, there's absorption concerns, it's a mess, and frankly I just think the stuff is unstable. But, too many pumps can lead to problems, so use caution at the same time. The most I was taking was 3 pumps, I believe at 2.5g/pump, so more of that stuff IMO just means more trouble. 

Also, I don't really know your complete situation, but I don't think that it's "worthless" to go to the gym if your serum score is under 800. Again, you might have other complications that the doctor is concerned about, but just keep in mind that the serum score is only one variable. Ask yourself, would you want to be at a serum level of 800 with a 2% free testosterone value, or would you prefer a score of 600 with the free test score at 3%? If you haven't factored in free/bio T, E2, DHEA, and a myriad of other hormones, then start your journey off in the right direction by getting familiar with all of it. This forum is a powerful tool if you choose to utilize it.

There's lot of great info. and people here to help. Definitely read up on the stickies and other threads in the forum. Can you tell us a little more about yourself? (Basic stats: Age, height, weight, est BF if you know, and anything else that's pertinent) Also, is your diet on track?

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## bass

> Sorry to be the spoiler here, but hitting 800 on the serum level is most certainly achievable with Androgel . I'm no fan of Androgel by any means, in fact just the opposite. However, I started out on Gel when I first started TRT, and my baseline was in the 200's. The first couple of months put me at/around 600 and 700, but after about 5 months it was >1,200. 
> 
> As mentioned, there's absorption concerns, it's a mess, and frankly I just think the stuff is unstable. But, too many pumps can lead to problems, so use caution at the same time. The most I was taking was 3 pumps, I believe at 2.5g/pump, so more of that stuff IMO just means more trouble. 
> 
> Also, I don't really know your complete situation, but I don't think that it's "worthless" to go to the gym if your serum score is under 800. Again, you might have other complications that the doctor is concerned about, but just keep in mind that the serum score is only one variable. Ask yourself, would you want to be at a serum level of 800 with a 2% free testosterone value, or would you prefer a score of 600 with the free test score at 3%? If you haven't factored in free/bio T, E2, DHEA, and a myriad of other hormones, then start your journey off in the right direction by getting familiar with all of it. This forum is a powerful tool if you choose to utilize it.
> 
> There's lot of great info. and people here to help. Definitely read up on the stickies and other threads in the forum. Can you tell us a little more about yourself? (Basic stats: Age, height, weight, est BF if you know, and anything else that's pertinent) Also, is your diet on track?


i agree with you, but Shol'vs post made me LOL regarding the sides of anti depression pills!

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## JD250

Vetteman, I don't think he specified what his doctor said his levels were, when the doc says LOW I suppose we all assume it's 200ish and at that level it IS fairly useless to go to the gym, maybe it was just me but I sure didn't do myself any favors when I was in that position and going to the gym. Of course the mother of ALL mistakes is to ASSUME anything. I do know that most of us would kill for a Doctor that wanted to shoot for 800ish. That said, you have made some solid observations along with good advice, as usual.  :Smilie:

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## Vettester

You are right, he didn't give any baseline numbers. The OP just mentions about getting to the 800 threshold, where his doctor wants to get him as well. That's great, but I'm hoping the OP will dig a little deeper to see beyond just the Total "T" serum score, and look at the other variables that will make his campaign successful. 

If some reason his E2 is super high, then that will also effect a lot of his issues he is currently having. If he sees the value of the free test score, it will minimize some of the focus on the Total serum score, which IMO shouldn't be the complete focal zone for HRT. My last labs had my serum level in the mid 500's (just a few weeks ago). However, my free is 4.26%. Surely the OP would take that over a 800 at 2% to 2.5% bio free "T"? On my last post, I was hoping he might elaborate for us some more details when I was asking the part about about stats and pertinent info. Full labs with ranges would be nice if available.

Plenty to chat about, just hoping the OP will jump back in and help us understand his situation better.

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## yannick35

Right now i have no number for testosterone results, my medical doctor put me on androgel because of the symptoms i was having, chronic pain, fatigue, depressed, and anemia that was not resolved with iron pills (the anemia got better but as soon as i stop taking the pills it got back down again).

My diet is simple i am based on a typical semi low carb diet, i am a meat eater, and i believe in saturated fat too, i don't eat egg whites, i eat the whole egg. All my meals are cooked in coconut oil or butter. I do have some whey isolate shakes from time to time and eat the occasional junk food (blame my girlfriend heheheh)

I am out of the gym right now. I am being treated with PRP (palatal rich plasma) where they take your blood pass into a centrifuge and re inject to the injured site.

I have a personal hatred toward chiropractor, they have no knowledge of ligament laxity and they never cure anyone of there pain. They are very good at giving you hope and taking your money tough. I have been to a chiro from 2006 to mid 2008 he adjusted me 3 times per week, my pelvic was seriously getting out of alignment all the time after that and he cause me to develop a snapping hip joint. He is under investigation by the chiropractic syndicate and after the investigation is done, i am bringing him to justice. He is incompetent as most of them are, seen 10 chiros in my 10 years of pain at different interval they are all the same.

My current medical doctor as very high credentials, he works with George St Pierre, Jean Pascal the boxer , he also treated many Olympic champions and at one point took care of les grands ballets Canadien (lots of them had labral tear of the hip). He does not cut corners and when i first got to is clinic he gave me a complete blood test, which at that time exclude testosterone test. I had mixed success with prolotherapy and not healing as i should have. This was past summer. In September he ordered a complete blood test and put me on PRP. 

He put me on TRT starting with androgel because he wants to bump my test level to when i was 18, he offered me either gel, pills or injections but i would have to do them myself. I took the gel but realize i made a mistake. I on November 2 when i see him again i will ask for a prescription for Delatestryl (test enhantate).

I did one steroid cycle when i was 28, it was bad, i did not know what i was doing and the guy that gave me the steroids did not give me PCT. I have been told that this might have screwed up my natural test levels for good. I do recall short after ending my cycle i was very fatigue back then but did not pay to much attention to it.

My goals are simple be pain free, fix my body, lose the gut and fat that is stubborn, and test will get me there. If i can get my levels to what they where when i was 18 then its a whole new life. Have more energy and if possible start some mix martial arts class, i really love the art, i did tae kwon do when i was younger but MMA is sooo much better.

I don't plan on building a pro bodybuilder physique, injecting myself 2-3 times a week or so. Once every 7-10 days will be enough for me, i hate needles. I have some DHEA, 7-Keto coming in, i also use cod liver oil, of course have a glucosamine MSM complexe and multi vitamine.

My medical doctor gave me B12 pills but my level now are very high around 1200 i think its almost twice the value i should have, must be from all that meat and eggs, so i am off that pill, he also gave me 4 pills of vitamine D at 12000IU, at that level i take 1 a week.

But with TRT my prolo and PRP treatments will fly, and i should be back in the gym full time in around 6 months crossing fingers.

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## Vettester

I don't quite understand why the doctor would exclude testing your "T". Yes, symptoms are there, and there's probably a good chance that you're on the low end. BUT, what if you're not? What if it's some other condition? Plus, if you do have low "T", doesn't the doctor want to know your baseline numbers, and look at other variables like LH/FSH to determine where the origin of the problem sits? That can factor in with knowing whether HCG will need to be implemented or not, and to possibly take a deeper look at areas with the pituitary and the testicles if other concerns are evident. Plus I hope he has kept the PSA lab in mind.

Sorry for your experience with the chiropractor. However, I can vouch that they're not all bad guys. I had one several years ago that worked miracles with me when I could barely walk with a pinched nerve in my spine. 

Stats????

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## yannick35

We are still waiting for the T test he told me that test takes a month, i went to the hospital so it was free, you get there early in the morning and you don't even need a rendez vous. The PSA came back fine, i also remember the LH/FSH that you mention being on the list and that too came back fine. The only issue was the anemia that was at 139, last year it was at 136. He said that if the problem is not mt T level he will send me to see a blood specialist, not sure of the name he used there. Last year he put me true some testing as well, i had a test where they inject some stuff in you and it makes your bone color, to check for inflammation in the body. I had inflammation in the C7 region that was resolve with a cortisone injection. He told me that with this test they even see cancer so i can rule that out too.

Right now my stats are 39 years old, 5 feet 10 inches, 215 pounds and i would guess BF% would be around 23%.

By November 2 i should have numbers for you guys for the T level if not i will go private my insurance will pay for the T test 80$ and it will cost me around 17$ its well worth it.

This medical doctor is the first that really takes my case seriously, and leaves nothing to chance. He said you have been to enough trial and error testing with your pain.

He does not put everyone on T either, he said that people like me who can benefit from it, and if someone really as low T level he will then talk to the person about it.

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## JohnnyVegas

Regarding the chronic pain - I had constant muscle cramps in my upper back and neck that had bothered me for years. The only way to temporarily get rid of them was for my wife to stick her elbow in them and press as hard as she could. She got tired of doing that ever night. Four or five weeks after starting TRT, they pain was gone and has not returned.

It is my belief that the TRT may have in some way helped my spinal problem, which may have been causing the pain and muscle cramps. Just a theory. The only thing I know, is that I had long-term pain, and it went away after my Test levels came up.

EDIT: don't mind the title on my post, I am fighting with the image verification system.

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## zaggahamma

interesting post

only thing i can add is just my experience with pain/trt...for me...i didnt notice any pain relief from test therapy that i can remember ....of course when adding in deca for a short term there was some shoulder issue pain relief

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## yannick35

> Regarding the chronic pain - I had constant muscle cramps in my upper back and neck that had bothered me for years. The only way to temporarily get rid of them was for my wife to stick her elbow in them and press as hard as she could. She got tired of doing that ever night. Four or five weeks after starting TRT, they pain was gone and has not returned.
> 
> It is my belief that the TRT may have in some way helped my spinal problem, which may have been causing the pain and muscle cramps. Just a theory. The only thing I know, is that I had long-term pain, and it went away after my Test levels came up.
> 
> EDIT: don't mind the title on my post, I am fighting with the image verification system.


My pain is from an injury but there are to many equations to pass up TRT, to get a testo level of an 18 year old again. For me people say its too early to tell and since i am on androgel too many factors to take into consideration.

But i am sure just like you that when i get on injections i will have some benefit after 5 weeks as well. I have been on androgel for about a week now, i rub one pouch in the morning and one at night so that gives me around 10g of T a day, but even then like many people say its very poor number right there compared to a weekly injection of 100mg. I guess that would be my starting number then re-evaluate after a month or so for the dosage.

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## yannick35

BTW my pain is caused by ligament laxity but as people get older there is always the nagging pains, like knee pains and other pains that we can go without.

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