# STEROIDS FORUM > HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY- Low T, Anti-Aging >  Fluoxetine (SSRI) & Testosterone

## jimmy79

Fluoxetine binds to Albumin.

Free-Testosterone also binds to Albumin.

Does this mean if you take both Fluoxetine & Testosterone that you will have less Free-Testosterone than just taking Testosterone without Fluoxetine ?
Does this mean you will loose that Testosterone that can't bind to Albumin or what?

Research seems to indicate that Fluoxetine (SSRI's) lowers your Testosterone levels but they don't say how.

/J

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## fig

Bump

Never heard that, interested to see if anyone knows

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## jimmy79

I have read that dopamine increases Testosterone .

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## layeazy

isn't it an anti depressant??

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## clemont51

Dopamine is a neurotransmitter. Boosting that level fights
depression. Also used as a withdrawl med for those stoping smoking.
The most interesting dopamine booster is the drug Modifinal.
Naturally, it was banned in many sports quickly. Issued to
long range recon ops types and flyers. Inexpensive, available
online.

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## Black

Fluoxetine is an anti-depressant (brand name is Cymbalta). I was on Lexapro and then Cymbalta for awhile (anxiety). After that is when I started TRT. Hard to tell whether those SSRIs contributed or not.

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## zaggahamma

> Fluoxetine is an anti-depressant (brand name is Cymbalta). I was on Lexapro and then Cymbalta for awhile (anxiety). After that is when I started TRT. Hard to tell whether those SSRIs contributed or not.


contributed to what?

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## Jadam

I was given Fluoxetine when I first complained about symptoms. After two months of TRT I stopped taking the pills and never looked back. No idea how it impacts things with your levels though.

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## layeazy

yeah thought i had heard that term before........

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## Black

I was referring to whether the SSRIs made my testosterone plummet or if it was already an existing condition.

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## Black

> I was given Fluoxetine when I first complained about symptoms. After two months of TRT I stopped taking the pills and never looked back. No idea how it impacts things with your levels though.


Same here. No need for SSRIs after I started TRT.

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## Redhawk

I went in w/ low Test symptoms 7 years ago, ie lethargy, "depression", low sex drive, etc... Being uneducated on Test I was shooting in the dark and proposed a thyroid problem to my primary care doc. She dismissed that and went straight to depression w/ no testing. I was prescribed Effexor, which is a SNRI - similar to SSRI. While I felt "better" that never really solved the real problem. If I look back my whole life, I've battled w/ some of the same type symptoms. I wonder when a male really starts developing symptoms of low Test? 

Been on 10 weeks of 150mg Test C/ weekly, while reducing Effexor dosage slowly and feel better than I have ever. My opinion is I don't think the SNRI caused my low Test and I would also posit it did not help it in anyway either. I've never seen a study where they took Test levels (or any hormone) w/ SSRI or SNRI. I would think a significant number of depression patients really have a hormone problem, and since hormones are not profit drivers for pharma, they would not want to discover the real problem and solution. Short of being a conspriracy theory, I think the medical community is waking itself up to this slowly.

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## zaggahamma

> I went in w/ low Test symptoms 7 years ago, ie lethargy, "depression", low sex drive, etc... Being uneducated on Test I was shooting in the dark and proposed a thyroid problem to my primary care doc. She dismissed that and went straight to depression w/ no testing. I was prescribed Effexor, which is a SNRI - similar to SSRI. While I felt "better" that never really solved the real problem. If I look back my whole life, I've battled w/ some of the same type symptoms. I wonder *when a male really starts developing symptoms of low Test?* 
> 
> Been on 10 weeks of 150mg Test C/ weekly, while reducing Effexor dosage slowly and feel better than I have ever. My opinion is I don't think the SNRI caused my low Test and I would also posit it did not help it in anyway either. I've never seen a study where they took Test levels (or any hormone) w/ SSRI or SNRI. I would think a significant number of depression patients really have a hormone problem, and since hormones are not profit drivers for pharma, they would not want to discover the real problem and solution. Short of being a conspriracy theory, I think the medical community is waking itself up to this slowly.


It can be different for everyone...or maybe they never were optimal to begin with. 

and yes a lot of doctors go with the profit driving medicine...shame

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## arizona32

> I went in w/ low Test symptoms 7 years ago, ie lethargy, "depression", low sex drive, etc... Being uneducated on Test I was shooting in the dark and proposed a thyroid problem to my primary care doc. She dismissed that and went straight to depression w/ no testing. I was prescribed Effexor, which is a SNRI - similar to SSRI. While I felt "better" that never really solved the real problem. If I look back my whole life, I've battled w/ some of the same type symptoms. I wonder when a male really starts developing symptoms of low Test? 
> 
> Been on 10 weeks of 150mg Test C/ weekly, while reducing Effexor dosage slowly and feel better than I have ever. My opinion is I don't think the SNRI caused my low Test and I would also posit it did not help it in anyway either. I've never seen a study where they took Test levels (or any hormone) w/ SSRI or SNRI. I would think a significant number of depression patients really have a hormone problem, and since hormones are not profit drivers for pharma, they would not want to discover the real problem and solution. Short of being a conspriracy theory, I think the medical community is waking itself up to this slowly.


I was on effexor for years, at times high dosages. That is what I think caused my T levels to drop. After going on trt, I got off the effexor and T went up even higher. Unfortunately due to the harsh withdrawal symptoms effexor is famous for I had to go back on. I have noticed that both in total T levels on tests and with my symptoms, effexor and testosterone have antagonistic effects for me. 
Interestingly, also when I have gone up in T dose, my anxiety increases. So at least for me, I have to find the right balance of the two medications. Would prefer to be off both completely, but that didn't go so well. 
So in summary, yes I do believe that SSRIs and SNRIs affect testosterone and estrogen (at least for some people) and I also agree that they are over prescribed.
Good luck with yours, hope this helps.

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## zaggahamma

> I was on effexor for years, at times high dosages. That is what I think caused my T levels to drop. After going on trt, I got off the effexor and T went up even higher. Unfortunately due to the harsh withdrawal symptoms effexor is famous for I had to go back on. I have noticed that both in total T levels on tests and with my symptoms, effexor and testosterone have antagonistic effects for me. 
> Interestingly, also when I have gone up in T dose, my anxiety increases. So at least for me, I have to find the right balance of the two medications. Would prefer to be off both completely, but that didn't go so well. 
> So in summary, yes I do believe that SSRIs and SNRIs affect testosterone and estrogen (at least for some people) and I also agree that they are over prescribed.
> Good luck with yours, hope this helps.


thanks for adding that post bro

can you elaborate a lil on how you're doing with these meds include state of well being, physical changes, symptoms/sides, etc...

sounds as if a lot to learn with these two combined meds

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## Redhawk

Effexor discontinuation is crippling to say the least. It's kept me on it for 5 years w/o much hope until recently.

I was on 150mg/day of Effexor and have slowly begun to decrease the dosage w/ my docs help. I've alternated 150mg/75mg for 2 months. Then did 2 months of 75mg/day. About to begin alternating 75mg/37.5mg for 2 months then go to 37.5mg for 2 months. I can't say I've noticed any difference in anxiety levels, even while going through a divorce. 

My test was at 334 and am going in for blood work next week after 12 weeks @ 150mg/week of Test C. I feel more energy, but not to the point of "edgy" so far. 

My doc said if I get off Effexor totally and have some symptoms of anxiety we'd try St. John's Wort or 5-HTP supplements to see if they help before going back to prescription meds.

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## zaggahamma

> Effexor discontinuation is crippling to say the least. It's kept me on it for 5 years w/o much hope until recently.
> 
> I was on 150mg/day of Effexor and have slowly begun to decrease the dosage w/ my docs help. I've alternated 150mg/75mg for 2 months. Then did 2 months of 75mg/day. About to begin alternating 75mg/37.5mg for 2 months then go to 37.5mg for 2 months. I can't say I've noticed any difference in anxiety levels, even while going through a divorce. 
> 
> My test was at 334 and am going in for blood work next week after 12 weeks @ 150mg/week of Test C. I feel more energy,* but not to the point of "edgy" so far.* 
> 
> My doc said if I get off Effexor totally and have some symptoms of anxiety we'd try St. John's Wort or 5-HTP supplements to see if they help before going back to prescription meds.


this sounds like you want to be edgy? can you explain

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## Redhawk

Not at all thankfully... edgy to me is a anxious, nervous, tense, mindless state. I prefer calm. After dealing w/ anxiety issues for a long time it's always in the back of mind to monitor how I feel to see if I'm crossing the line from feeling good to "edgy". Edgy is the beginning of a slippery slope to other unhealthy decisions / mindstates.

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## NoTimer

For what it's worth i was on fluoxetine for about a year.One month after stoping it i did some hormone tests and testosterone was 288ng when the lowest level was 400ng for my age(according to the lab where i went to do the tests).112ng lower than normal.

Don't know if i was going to have that much testosterone without the fluoxetine though...

edit:good luck to all people taking medication for psychological issues.I wish you all the best  :Smilie:

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## zaggahamma

so makes sense to find out that our medical community has been prescribing meds to LOWER men's test levels

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## arizona32

> thanks for adding that post bro
> 
> can you elaborate a lil on how you're doing with these meds include state of well being, physical changes, symptoms/sides, etc...
> 
> sounds as if a lot to learn with these two combined meds


When I first went on TRT by total test was 216, low energy, low libido. The TRT helped with both. I was feeling so good that I slowly weaned off the effexor which I had been on for 10 years, since the doc said there wasn't any reason to come off. At first I felt better. Lots of energy, even more libido, but then started getting withdrawal symptoms. Dizziness, flashing lights (brainzaps called by effexor people), and then as time went on extreme anxiety. I also noticed my T levels went to 920 without effexor when they were at 650 at the same dosage of T while on effexor. Eventually couldn't handle the withdrawal anymore and reluctantly went back on effexor. If you google effexor withdrawal you will see it is a nightmare for a lot of people. I have come to the conclusion that even though I don't need it emotionally anymore, my body has become dependent on it. So at best I may be able to slowly move down to a low dose. Sucks, but oh well. At least the TRT has helped to balance it out. The only thing is my last blood test was while I was off effexor so the doc moved my T down 40mg/week, but now that I am back on effexor the lower T isn't enough, so gotta try to get him to move it back up. Hope this is helpful

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## arizona32

> Not at all thankfully... edgy to me is a anxious, nervous, tense, mindless state. I prefer calm. After dealing w/ anxiety issues for a long time it's always in the back of mind to monitor how I feel to see if I'm crossing the line from feeling good to "edgy". Edgy is the beginning of a slippery slope to other unhealthy decisions / mindstates.


Feel you brother. Anxiety is the worst feeling in the world for me, because in the past it led to panic attacks etc. In fact I avoid caffeine and energy drinks just for that reason. Don't like the edgy feeling.

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## arizona32

> My doc said if I get off Effexor totally and have some symptoms of anxiety we'd try St. John's Wort or 5-HTP supplements to see if they help before going back to prescription meds.


I hope that works for you. Didn't for me. It seems that after so many years of Effexor, the body becomes used to it. I weaned off very slowly, over several months, then stayed off for 5 months and still had withdrawal symptoms. I don't think doctors understand just what they are doing by introducing these chemicals and are naive about the simplicity of coming off.

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## zaggahamma

> When I first went on TRT by total test was 216, low energy, low libido. The TRT helped with both. I was feeling so good that I slowly weaned off the effexor which I had been on for 10 years, since the doc said there wasn't any reason to come off. At first I felt better. Lots of energy, even more libido, but then started getting withdrawal symptoms. Dizziness, flashing lights (brainzaps called by effexor people), and then as time went on extreme anxiety. I also noticed my T levels went to 920 without effexor when they were at 650 at the same dosage of T while on effexor. Eventually couldn't handle the withdrawal anymore and reluctantly went back on effexor. If you google effexor withdrawal you will see it is a nightmare for a lot of people. I have come to the conclusion that even though I don't need it emotionally anymore, my body has become dependent on it. So at best I may be able to slowly move down to a low dose. Sucks, but oh well. At least the TRT has helped to balance it out. The only thing is my last blood test was while I was off effexor so the doc moved my T down 40mg/week, but now that I am back on effexor the lower T isn't enough, so gotta try to get him to move it back up. Hope this is helpful


well...helpful cuz u answered but wondering if maybe you need both meds? idk bro...wut was wrong with test level at 650?

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## Redhawk

> I hope that works for you. Didn't for me. It seems that after so many years of Effexor, the body becomes used to it. I weaned off very slowly, over several months, then stayed off for 5 months and still had withdrawal symptoms. *I don't think doctors understand just what they are doing by introducing these chemicals and are naive about the simplicity of coming off*.


I agree, it seems like most docs guess b/c they either do not know what to do or do not have the time to really figure it out. I assumed my doctors knew what they were doing. The reality seems to be in most cases I can figure it out in a few hours of research and then requesting the correct tests.

Short of surgery, which few docs even do, passing medical school and license exams seem to be the hardest work most of them ever do. Plus, locally they published the amounts the drug manufactures pay doctors, and my past doc is one of the top "earners" from Wyeth. 

Luckily, I found one who knows what she is doing and is willing to go against the trend.

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## arizona32

^agree. I have become skeptical of doctors and have learned that I have to have a vested interest in my treatment and do my fair share of the research. Best of luck to you, hope it all works out well.

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## arizona32

> well...helpful cuz u answered but wondering if maybe you need both meds? idk bro...wut was wrong with test level at 650?


nothing was wrong with 650, just pointing out the difference between the total test scores while on effexor (650) and while off effexor (920) at the same dosage of test. It does seem that I need more test while on effexor. Would like to get off one or both, but so far attempts haven't worked out too well. My conclusion so far is a Test dosage about 180-200 mg/week and moving to a minimal effexor dose will probably be the sweet spot, but still working on it.

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## zaggahamma

> nothing was wrong with 650, just pointing out the difference between the total test scores while on effexor (650) and while off effexor (920) at the same dosage of test. It does seem that I need more test while on effexor. Would like to get off one or both, but so far attempts haven't worked out too well. My conclusion so far is a Test dosage about 180-200 mg/week and moving to a minimal effexor dose will probably be the sweet spot, but still working on it.


 i was just wondering if you actually might need both meds and be able to function well and have a good qol with the both? maybe i didnt read you correctly...is the test not correcting the low libido from the effexor if not then i can understand...either way wish you find that sweet spot

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## arizona32

> i was just wondering if you actually might need both meds and be able to function well and have a good qol with the both? maybe i didnt read you correctly...is the test not correcting the low libido from the effexor if not then i can understand...either way wish you find that sweet spot


Ya, like you said, the test has offset the negative effects of the effexor, most notably libido and energy level. The way you put it is correct, "quality of life is better" with both meds. Although my ego would like to be ok without any meds, it's better to be humble, happier and a better functioning member of society. Plan on tinkering with the dosages a bit, but the sweet spot is near.

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## zaggahamma

> Ya, like you said, the test has offset the negative effects of the effexor, most notably libido and energy level. The way you put it is correct, "quality of life is better" with both meds. Although my ego would like to be ok without any meds, it's better to be humble, happier and a better functioning member of society. Plan on tinkering with the dosages a bit, but the sweet spot is near.


yeh, thats what i was thinking and yes it is always better to be humble and/but you worded it perfect

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## swllce

I am dropping my cymbalta dosage by 10mg 
I cant stand the libido, low sexdrive issues anymore.With these issues i cant help to wonder if ssri's lower all t '' levels
My bloodwork from 6 months ago show low free testosterone and total testosterone levels for a 37 yr old.I havent tried trt but i would like to.My urologist says its normal to have the same t'' levels as a 80yr old
We are really pioneers of this issue ,i cant see any doctors conducting extensive studies of trt combined with antidepressants.

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## zaggahamma

they would rather chemically castrate than viralize

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## Redhawk

I met w/ my doc yesterday for follow up blood work and posed the questions "can SSRI's cause low T?" and "are there any studies?". She said it would be highly unlikely SSRI's would cause low T as they mostly interact in the brain in different areas than T. She knew of no studies and said someone would have to get millions of grant dollars to research, which would be doubtful as it could slam SSRI's and tout hormones, which are not profit drivers for pharma.

She's sticking with her opinion that men have low T symptoms and are mis-prescribed large amounts of anti-depressants at will b/c it's easy and docs think it "works". 

Did see a re-run of 60 Minutes on CNBC last night in which there is case being made exposure to Phthalates in everyday household items and food can lead to low T in men and even unborn male babies. 

Unlikely anyone will champion men having high or even normal Testosterone with the public opinion it makes us sexual savages and violent. Part of a cultural feminization of men over the last 50 years.

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## zaggahamma

i agree with you

also with your doctor except for what you said she said first...seems as if several examples are already contradicting that they cant lower T

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## subnet

> When I first went on TRT by total test was 216, low energy, low libido. The TRT helped with both. I was feeling so good that I slowly weaned off the effexor which I had been on for 10 years, since the doc said there wasn't any reason to come off. At first I felt better. Lots of energy, even more libido, but then started getting withdrawal symptoms. *Dizziness, flashing lights (brainzaps called by effexor people), and then as time went on extreme anxiety.*  I also noticed my T levels went to 920 without effexor when they were at 650 at the same dosage of T while on effexor. *Eventually couldn't handle the withdrawal anymore and reluctantly went back on effexor.* If you google effexor withdrawal you will see it is a nightmare for a lot of people. I have come to the conclusion that even though I don't need it emotionally anymore, my body has become dependent on it. So at best I may be able to slowly move down to a low dose. Sucks, but oh well. At least the TRT has helped to balance it out. The only thing is my last blood test was while I was off effexor so the doc moved my T down 40mg/week, but now that I am back on effexor the lower T isn't enough, so gotta try to get him to move it back up. Hope this is helpful


sounds like me exactly, except switch it out for Lexapro. I've been on SSRI's for 15+ friggen years and now I know that my depression symptoms were mainly low-T and I was only 25 or so at the time. Of course, no-one really new about this (they still can't get it right). Like you Arizona, I had to go back on the Lex after weaning myself off for months. If I followed my doctor's advice, which was to cut the dose in half for a week, then alternate days then I'd be off, I had extreme withdrawl symptoms. Doing it myself on my own schedule, I think it took me 5 or 6 months to get off completely, but the like you had to go back on because I still had irritability/anxiety. Just 2 months ago, I said to myself "self, enough of this bullshite" and decided to look at alternatives (I sleep VERY, VERY poorly on SSRI's), and looked into Buspar (which is anti-anxiety). So, I've been weaning myself off the Lexapro, ramping up on Buspar and so far so good - finger's crossed. Yes I'm switching one med out for another, but it's a lot less addictive (it's supposedly not at all) and has a lot less side effects...




> She's sticking with her opinion that men have low T symptoms and are mis-prescribed large amounts of anti-depressants at will b/c it's easy and docs think it "works".


agreed big-time!

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## BeastintheSheets

They raise prolactin, lower dopamine, and stress the liver. There is nothing good about SSRIs. Sufficient dopamine in the nervous terminals which decrease on SSRIS is needed to power the LH production to the testes. And high prolactin will screw with everything, including the immune system.

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## onions

> When I first went on TRT by total test was 216, low energy, low libido. The TRT helped with both. I was feeling so good that I slowly weaned off the effexor which I had been on for 10 years, since the doc said there wasn't any reason to come off. At first I felt better. Lots of energy, even more libido, but then started getting withdrawal symptoms. Dizziness, flashing lights (brainzaps called by effexor people), and then as time went on extreme anxiety. I also noticed my T levels went to 920 without effexor when they were at 650 at the same dosage of T while on effexor. Eventually couldn't handle the withdrawal anymore and reluctantly went back on effexor. If you google effexor withdrawal you will see it is a nightmare for a lot of people. I have come to the conclusion that even though I don't need it emotionally anymore, my body has become dependent on it. So at best I may be able to slowly move down to a low dose. Sucks, but oh well. At least the TRT has helped to balance it out. The only thing is my last blood test was while I was off effexor so the doc moved my T down 40mg/week, but now that I am back on effexor the lower T isn't enough, so gotta try to get him to move it back up. Hope this is helpful


Hi, I can't offer any insight regarding SSRI's and Test. However after reading about people trying to get off effexor I thought I would share the method I found to work.

I was on effexor for about a year. I couldn't handle the poor libido and inability to achieve erection without cialis, even then with difficulty at times. It did help me through a tough time but I felt it was hindering my progress in life. I had poor drive to do anything (was unemployed for that year and found it extremely difficult to get myself into gear and get things done).

I won't go into too much details but when attempting to come off it I experienced the brain zaps and weird emotion surges while exercising, made it hard to even cycle on the exercise bike for 15 minutes. It's really hard to explain but people who try to come off know what I mean.

Anyway to get to the point. I have read that people use tramadol as a step down from effexor to combat the withdrawal symptoms. Reading the wikipedia page notes it is similar to venlafaxine and acts as a mild SNRI.

This worked for me. Although it was still difficult coming off effexor this definately had more bareable side effects (some weird dreams and random waking up while sleeping was all i really remember it causing) and they stopped as soon as I stopped taking tramadol (I believe it was a couple of weeks total and I was taking it as needed and in smaller amounts, e.g. 1/2's, 1/3's towards the end).

Please be weary as some people find it habit forming. I found it a good tool to relieve me of horrid withdrawal symptoms.

It is a pain relief medicine available to order online.

Hope this helps those thinking of trying to come off the effexor  :Wink:

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## zaggahamma

> Hi, I can't offer any insight regarding SSRI's and Test. However after reading about people trying to get off effexor I thought I would share the method I found to work.
> 
> I was on effexor for about a year. I couldn't handle the poor libido and inability to achieve erection without cialis, even then with difficulty at times. It did help me through a tough time but I felt it was hindering my progress in life. I had poor drive to do anything (was unemployed for that year and found it extremely difficult to get myself into gear and get things done).
> 
> I won't go into too much details but when attempting to come off it I experienced the brain zaps and weird emotion surges while exercising, made it hard to even cycle on the exercise bike for 15 minutes. It's really hard to explain but people who try to come off know what I mean.
> 
> Anyway to get to the point. I have read that people use tramadol as a step down from effexor to combat the withdrawal symptoms. Reading the wikipedia page notes it is similar to venlafaxine and acts as a mild SNRI.
> 
> This worked for me. Although it was still difficult coming off effexor this definately had more bareable side effects (some weird dreams and random waking up while sleeping was all i really remember it causing) and they stopped as soon as I stopped taking tramadol (I believe it was a couple of weeks total and I was taking it as needed and in smaller amounts, e.g. 1/2's, 1/3's towards the end).
> ...


i can second the fact that tramadol is habit forming/addictive as i was on it for 2 years however my withdrawl from it was most certainly tolerable FOR ME that is...i thought tramadol was such a great med which i really still have no bad regrets from running it...the doctors just dont want you on them for any length of time and i actually had no choice but to come off...
from what ive read about effexor, your idea onions does make sense...it sounds like a tough place to be in

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