# STEROIDS FORUM > IGF-1 LR3, HGH, and INSULIN QUESTIONS >  HGH log for everyone!

## Xtralarg

If you're on HGH and want to share your results with others but dont want to start your own thread then do it in here.....

Tell us what your HGH cycle is doing for you, ask questions, answer questions and share your experiences with others who are serious about HGH.

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## Matt

Good idea bro, perhaps all those that have even the simplest of question regarding hgh can ask here if your not keen on starting your own thread...

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## Matt

So i have Glotropin, on the box is an authentication code that you have to scratch to reveal. Doing this gives me a 20 digit code which i type in on their site and got the message, "congratulations your product is genuine"..

I presume this is the best way to confirm that your hgh is real????

Or can this be fixed??

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## Xtralarg

It certainly goes a some way to confirming it! 

One way of checking it is by trying to check the same number twice, if it lets you then that number means nothing as it could of been copied by someone else. Most companies who use that system will only let you check the number once then on the second attempt it will allert you to the fact that it has already been checked and to contact them.

The only 100% way of knowing is by getting it tested in a lab.

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## Matt

You know your stuff lol, a warning came up to say the the code had already been entered...

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## Xtralarg

Thats a good result mate  :Wink/Grin: 

When are you starting to use it?

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## Matt

I shall be leaving it another month or two.

Because ive had a period of time out of the game i believe its very important to focus on diet and training until i get close to my natural potential which weight wise would be around 210lbs.. Im sitting at about 203lbs now and my strength is coming back good and strong...

I will be running the hgh along side tri tren and test although im going to start the hgh 2 months before the aas.. Im convinced that i can get to 260/270lbs in 12 months..

Im going to run the hgh as follows: 
1-4 weeks @2ius 5/2.
4-8 @ 4ius 5/2.
8-12 @ 6ius 5/2.
12-? @ 8ius 5/2..

Im going to get more hgh and would hope to stay on for at least 12 months...

I will post pictures on my profile page as im going along...

What are your thoughts???

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## Hazard

> I shall be leaving it another month or two.
> 
> Because ive had a period of time out of the game i believe its very important to focus on diet and training until i get close to my natural potential which weight wise would be around 210lbs.. Im sitting at about 203lbs now and my strength is coming back good and strong...
> 
> I will be running the hgh along side tri tren and test although im going to start the hgh 2 months before the aas.. Im convinced that i can get to 260/270lbs in 12 months..
> 
> Im going to run the hgh as follows: 
> 1-4 weeks @2ius 5/2.
> 4-8 @ 4ius 5/2.
> ...


Congrats on the purchase  :Smilie: 

The ramp up looks good..... it should keep sides fairly minimal. I ramped up faster but I wanted to feel sides just to make myself feel better about the purchase. I started at 4iu's bumped it to 6iu's sometime around week 3 or 4 and then 8iu's by week 7 or 8. I had carpal tunnel and knuckle pain for about 2 1/2 months LMAO. Didn't bother me too too much though.

I'm seeing the real bennefits of the HGH now..... and i'm in month 7 I believe..... 

~Haz~

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## Xtralarg

> I shall be leaving it another month or two.
> 
> Because ive had a period of time out of the game i believe its very important to focus on diet and training until i get close to my natural potential which weight wise would be around 210lbs.. Im sitting at about 203lbs now and my strength is coming back good and strong...
> 
> I will be running the hgh along side tri tren and test although im going to start the hgh 2 months before the aas.. Im convinced that i can get to 260/270lbs in 12 months..
> 
> Im going to run the hgh as follows: 
> 1-4 weeks @2ius 5/2.
> 4-8 @ 4ius 5/2.
> ...



I think you have got it all worked out and have done your job right!

HGH is amazing when used right and with AAS the synergy is phenomenal. I will be really interested to see how you progress over the next 12 months+. In my experience the only thing/things that have held me back BB'ing are personal problems which take your eye off the ball.....if you can stay hasstle free and focussed then the sky is the limit for you!

How many cycles do you plan to run during the 12 months?

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## ProjectTurkey

i started HGH blue cap gen almost two months ago 5 on 2 off and have ramped 2 iu's 1/perday for three weeks, 2.5/perday for a week, 3/perday for a week and now 4 iu's/perday for a week moving up now to 5 iu's/perday this coming week. I started a test cycle of Enanthate 85mgs/Cypionate 85mgs/Propionate 80mgs mixed where i hit a half cc every other day. I got this mix cause i wanted Sustanon 250 and they tried to sell it to me as Sustanon which is crazy cause I know what Sustanon mix is but was so curious about this blend I wanted to try it anyway. It's real for sure... I've had excellent gains and want more of it. 

Wanted to do 1 cc everyother day but one of the monitors here said it was to much. Any thoughts?

That would be 1000 mgs per week and felt that would be safe enough. Any thoughts?

I just scored a 10 ml bottle of insulin but do not know how to start it yet. Just got it 
today which is why im looking on here for suggestions. Any thoughts?

i take sup's to control sides but have zero side effects as of yet.

6' tall 
196 lbs 
13% body fat 

just strated test first week 10 lbs easy maybe more gained

hgh brought me from 176 tp 186 in 5 weeks where i started and lost fat and gained muscle 

I box now and do cardio which keeps weight down but body is looking great 

I need a diet to work with cause I want an athletic body not really interested in body building although that's who teaches me the most about my gains 

plan to run at least 8 months gh with test cycle on the off then on again 

want to stack with this awesome blended test 

please instruct me im new and want to get the most out of this shit and it's f-ing costly.

I don't get offended so let it rip... I want to learn.

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## Xtralarg

> i started HGH blue cap gen almost two months ago 5 on 2 off and have ramped 2 iu's 1/perday for three weeks, 2.5/perday for a week, 3/perday for a week and now 4 iu's/perday for a week moving up now to 5 iu's/perday this coming week. I started a test cycle of Enanthate 85mgs/Cypionate 85mgs/Propionate 80mgs mixed where i hit a half cc every other day. I got this mix cause i wanted Sustanon 250 and they tried to sell it to me as Sustanon which is crazy cause I know what Sustanon mix is but was so curious about this blend I wanted to try it anyway. It's real for sure... I've had excellent gains and want more of it. 
> 
> Wanted to do 1 cc everyother day but one of the monitors here said it was to much. Any thoughts?
> 
> That would be 1000 mgs per week and felt that would be safe enough. Any thoughts?
> 
> I just scored a 10 ml bottle of insulin but do not know how to start it yet. Just got it 
> today which is why im looking on here for suggestions. Any thoughts?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input, this is exactly the sort of info we are looking for here so we can follow your progress and see what works best.

Before we carry on I nedd to ask you a few questions....

Age?

Previous cycles?

How long have you been training?

When you say you are taking sups to control sides what sides are you trying to control and what sups are you taking?

Am I right in saying you have gained a total of 20lbs in 6 weeks and 10lbs in one week on test?

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## Matt

> I think you have got it all worked out and have done your job right!
> 
> HGH is amazing when used right and with AAS the synergy is phenomenal. I will be really interested to see how you progress over the next 12 months+. In my experience the only thing/things that have held me back BB'ing are personal problems which take your eye off the ball.....if you can stay hasstle free and focussed then the sky is the limit for you!
> 
> How many cycles do you plan to run during the 12 months?


 
Im undecided yet on how many cycles im going to run however im sure im going to cruise from cycle to cycle. Im almost 40 and have no plans at this point of my to have kids....

The biggest factor in all of this is the cost, the food im consuming now is costing an arm and a leg. I can understand why the pro's need sponsors..

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## Xtralarg

> Im undecided yet on how many cycles im going to run however im sure im going to cruise from cycle to cycle. Im almost 40 and have no plans at this point of my to have kids....
> 
> The biggest factor in all of this is the cost, the food im consuming now is costing an arm and a leg. I can understand why the pro's need sponsors..


If you're cruising then thats ideal!

Have you done any short heavy cycles?

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## Matt

> If you're cruising then thats ideal!
> 
> Have you done any short heavy cycles?


Ive never done short burst cycles, ie 4/5/6 weeks..

I usually run cycles for 12/14 weeks...

I you thinking that throwing a number of short burst cycles in there would be of some benefit???

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## Matt

I was also thinking of keeping the test at 250mgs ew when cruising as opposed to 125mgs.. Im of the opinion the would be of more benefit whilst on hgh...

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## Xtralarg

> Ive never done short burst cycles, ie 4/5/6 weeks..
> 
> I usually run cycles for 12/14 weeks...
> 
> I you thinking that throwing a number of short burst cycles in there would be of some benefit???


Well its certainly an option you should think about depending on how you react to AAS. One of my most productive cycles was a very heavy (5g pw) 4 week one with 8iu EOD HGH shots - I gained more than 20lbs in the 4 weeks and retained the vast majority of it. I always see quick results though no matter what compunds I run, after 6 weeks its always PCT time for me.

Cruising at 250mg pw rather than 125mg will have its benifits but the downside is that when you do cycle you have to take this in consideration and up the amount your on cycle, which in turn can lead to more sides in many areas, however im sure you are aware of this and are happy with your choice.

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## Hazard

> I was also thinking of keeping the test at 250mgs ew when cruising as opposed to 125mgs.. Im of the opinion the would be of more benefit whilst on hgh...


I agree with this..... if you're going to cruise..... make it worth it.

~Haz~

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## Xtralarg

> I agree with this..... if you're going to cruise..... make it worth it.
> 
> ~Haz~


Do you cruise?

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## babyface770

im going to post this here instead of my thread so hopefully people can learn from my questions here 


i decided to go for a jog just now and the second i started to break a sweat i felt tremendous pain in my left ankle, is this by any chance related to the GH or the test ? anyways i didnt stop jogging i took a lap around the neighborhood

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## Xtralarg

> im going to post this here instead of my thread so hopefully people can learn from my questions here 
> 
> 
> i decided to go for a jog just now and the second i started to break a sweat i felt tremendous pain in my left ankle, is this by any chance related to the GH or the test ? anyways i didnt stop jogging i took a lap around the neighborhood


Thanks for the post....we look forward to keeping up with your progress!

I doubt the gh would give you a sore ankle tbh, unless it was related to fluid retention? Are any of your other joints painful?

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## marcus300

> I was also thinking of keeping the test at 250mgs ew when cruising as opposed to 125mgs.. Im of the opinion the would be of more benefit whilst on hgh...





> I agree with this..... if you're going to cruise..... make it worth it.
> 
> ~Haz~


In my experience to many people crusie on to higher amount per week, its not needed IMHO, ive used and ive seem many others implement 125-150mgs per week and still be able to maintain their size and condition without feeling any kind of lag.

If you start cruising at higher amounts you have to take in consideration the amount of gear you will be going on to respond, ive cruised on various amounts and I didnt see much of a difference from the lower amount to the higher except when i went on cycle, its far better coming out of a cruise on a lower amount into a stack.

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## BignBig

I’d like to join this party. I thought to share with this community my first HGH experience using Jintropin (Made in China).

*Personal stats:*
Age: 37
Height: 180 cm (5’10)
Weight: 92 Kgs (202 Lbs)
BF: 12.7% (using the electronic scale)

*Past ASS Cycles:*
4 Cycle in the last 3 years or so.
1st: 10 weeks total, Test e (500 mgs/week) + Avanar (40 mgs/day, first 4 weeks)
2nd: 10 weeks total, Test e (500 mgs/week) + DBol (40 mgs/day, first 4 weeks)
3rd: 12 weeks total, Test e (750 mgs/week) + Tren Acetate (100 mgs/day, first 4 weeks)
4th: 12 weeks total, Test e (750 mgs/week) + Deca (600 mgs/week)
I kept 12 kgs (26 Lbs) of gain from these cycles. My PCT for my last cycle ended in Jan 2010.

*HGH Usage Objectives:*
Reduce my body fat (estimate at 12.7% using the electronic scale) to 8%-6%
Gain some muscle mass by 8 kgs (17 Lbs).
I’m sure that ASS are the best for mass gain; however, in my last cycle I hardly gained 1 Kgs (2 lbs). Looking if HGH can be an alternative?

_Length:_ One year
_Dosage:_ I plan to increase my dosage from 2 iu to 6-8 iu depending on the outcome of the first few months (3-6 months) and the severity of the side effects.
1st month: 2 iu
2nd month: 4 iu (if side effects are manageable)
5th month: 6 iu (if side effects are manageable). I may go up to 8 iu. The search I have conducted was not conclusive whether the dosage and the muscle gain are related. I decided to experiment the dosage and assess the outcome accordingly. Planning to add T4 in months 2 and Insulin in month 3. The reason why I didn’t start with T4 and insulin in the first months is the side effects. I wanted to understand each component and the side effects associated with it. 
*Diet:* 40/40/20 = Carbs/Protein/Fat. 3000 – 4000 Cal/Day. I record daily my diet and analyse it using a tool I bought from the Internet,

*1st Month:*
Started the first week of May and this is my fourth week.

_Dosage:_ As stated before 2 iu

*Side effects:* Night sweats and occasional headaches. The first week, I was feeling a bit lethargic.

*Benefits noticed:* Good quality sleep, slight increase in the strength at the GYM, and some slight anabolic effects at the GYM (pump and a bit of aggression).
Other observations: My appetite went up the roof. I feel like I want to eat all the time. Surprisingly, people start making complements about my body, “The shape of your upper body is changing …”, “You putting Muscle again?!”, 
At week 4, the headaches decreases and not as often as the 1st and 2nd week. So, I decided to increase my dosage to 4 iu from next week which is the start of the 2nd month. I would also add T4 starting from 40 mcg and gradually increasing it to 80 – 100 mcg. 
Also, planning to run an AAS cycle sometimes around July? I want to benefit from the Test and HGH combination, people report great results from combining HGH and Test.

*Stats at the end of week 4:*
Weight = 92 Kgs (202 lbs), no change
Body fat = 12.3%, slight decrease. For body fat, the number is irrelevant to me. I would be happy once I see my entire abs and I reduce my waist from 34 to 32 inchs.
Overall, no major changes so far. I guess, it is too early to see any benefits. I’m enthusiastically looking forward to start the 2nd months with 4 iu and 40 mcg of T4.
I decided to some blood test to check if everything is all right. All good, blood count, liver, kidney function, blood sugar, etc. The doc said all good ....
 
*2nd Month:*
Raised the dosage to 4 iu as planned. I added 80 mcg of T4.

*Dosage:* As stated before 4 iu
_Side effects:_ Night sweats, my bed is wet by the morning. Occasional headaches. Occasionally feeling a bit lethargic and tired. I feel like I want to sleep all the time?!?
_Benefits noticed:_ Good quality sleep, slight increase in the strength at the GYM, and some slight anabolic effects at the GYM (pump and a bit of aggression). Fat loss in the injections area (Abdominal)
_Other observations:_ My appetite still up. 

*Stats at the start of week 7:*
Weight = 93.6 Kgs (206 lbs), went up 4 lbs!?!
Body fat = 12.3%, no change yet

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## Xtralarg

Excellent post BignBig, thank you for sharing such detailed info with us. I can relate to much of what you have said, you havent mentioned any CTS or joint pain though, have you suffered at all with any of them?

One thing that worries me slightly is that you only gained 1kg on your last cycle (12 weeks total, Test e (750 mgs/week) + Deca (600 mgs/week). Even if you didnt train and ate a poor diest (which I can see you didnt) then you would gain much more than that in water retention alone.....therefore it makes me think your AAS may not of been real? Did you get it from a relaible source or brew it yourself? Either way I would make double sure that for your next cycle you have some good quality AAS. That leads me on to your HGH dosage for that cycle, try to get your dosage up to around the 6-8iu mark when you start your cycle as like you have said the synergy between HGH,AAS and T4 is amazing!

What protocol are you using for you HGH at the moment?

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## babyface770

> Thanks for the post....we look forward to keeping up with your progress!
> 
> I doubt the gh would give you a sore ankle tbh, unless it was related to fluid retention? Are any of your other joints painful?


Ohh well no other hoints hurt just my ankle and its fine now ,,I don't know if its fluid retention but I do feel the bloat is a little less since I last asked you about it . But there is no doubt that I still feel a little bloat around my belly.

Another question is that since I'm going to do a 6 months cycle and I need to stick to 6-8 ( see what works) for a long period of time , would It be wise to up the dosage faster than I excepted as in raise 1IU every two weeks instead of per month ?

Thanks again

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## Xtralarg

> Ohh well no other hoints hurt just my ankle and its fine now ,,I don't know if its fluid retention but I do feel the bloat is a little less since I last asked you about it . But there is no doubt that I still feel a little bloat around my belly.
> 
> Another question is that since I'm going to do a 6 months cycle and I need to stick to 6-8 ( see what works) for a long period of time , would It be wise to up the dosage faster than I excepted as in raise 1IU every two weeks instead of per month ?
> 
> Thanks again


Keep an eye on your sodium intyake, that will help the bloat.

I would increase the dosage as quickly as the sides allow you to especially as you are running prop with it!

Any signs of CTS yet?

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## babyface770

> Keep an eye on your sodium intyake, that will help the bloat.
> 
> I would increase the dosage as quickly as the sides allow you to especially as you are running prop with it!
> 
> Any signs of CTS yet?


okay sir will do  :Smilie:  


as for CTS its the usual that i told you about, a little tingling after i hit a shot nothing too serious

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## Matt

Just for opinions, my hgh comes with 10ml vials of sodium chloride..

Would you use it or would there be any real benifits with changing it to bac water or b12????

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## Xtralarg

> Just for opinions, my hgh comes with 10ml vials of sodium chloride..
> 
> Would you use it or would there be any real benifits with changing it to bac water or b12????


What you have is bac water with added sodium chloride. 

Benzyl alcohol is added as a bacteriostatic preservative and the sodium chloride is added so it can be used IV if required.

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## Xtralarg

> okay sir will do  
> 
> 
> as for CTS its the usual that i told you about, a little tingling after i hit a shot nothing too serious


You did say you were waking up early with numb hands now I come to think about it....is this still happening?

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## alextg

As i was saying to the other thread , my blast will be for 5 days takin around 150iu totally and then for 3 weeks i'll b on ghrp-6 (most probably) so i can keep gh levels elevated.
AAS cycle will have about 1.5-2g test , 1-1.5g eq and around 700mg tren (per week) ...
Its too soon to actually give more details as all this will start this September , and i still havent got full details on the gf blast method i'll follow ...

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## Xtralarg

> As i was saying to the other thread , my blast will be for 5 days takin around 150iu totally and then for 3 weeks i'll b on ghrp-6 (most probably) so i can keep gh levels elevated.
> AAS cycle will have about 1.5-2g test , 1-1.5g eq and around 700mg tren (per week) ...
> Its too soon to actually give more details as all this will start this September , and i still havent got full details on the gf blast method i'll follow ...


Thanks for posting alex

I know a pro bb who does 2 wweks of blasting hgh then 2 weeks at a low dose and this works very well for him. 

Can you tell me why you have decided to go with that protocol dose?

I have cycled aas at that ammount and achieved excellent results along with some of the worst headaches i have ever had!

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## alextg

> Thanks for posting alex
> 
> I know a pro bb who does 2 wweks of blasting hgh then 2 weeks at a low dose and this works very well for him. 
> 
> Can you tell me why you have decided to go with that protocol dose?
> 
> I have cycled aas at that ammount and achieved excellent results along with some of the worst headaches i have ever had!


Well i've been following this thread in an other forum about Gh blasts and the results ppl have are amazing ... not only an increase in mass but drop of fat (and i mean more than normal) ... i think with this protocol you can actually cause hyperplasia and cause , after so many years that i BB i decided to compete , i wonna compete and make a bang , if you know what i mean.
If this protocol enhances me alot and add me the mass i want while bulking , i will continue it throughout my prep.Else i might do a classic 8iu ED protocol with hgh ...
We'll see .... ofcourse any thought are always welcome  :Smilie:

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## babyface770

> You did say you were waking up early with numb hands now I come to think about it....is this still happening?



i do feel light lightt pins , very light these days 


do i take the t4 pills 5 on and 2 off or everyday ?  :Smilie:

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## alextg

> i do feel light lightt pins , very light these days 
> 
> 
> do i take the t4 pills 5 on and 2 off or everyday ?


getting light pins or numb hands from hgh is normal ... if its too much you need to drop the dosage.If its tolerable keep it going ... they will subside.
I had CTS after 14 weeks of hgh and it was freakin bad ... used to wake up from the pains i had on my left hand.I dropped the dose back to 4iu (i used to get more at that time) , and sides disappeared ...

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## Xtralarg

> Well i've been following this thread in an other forum about Gh blasts and the results ppl have are amazing ... not only an increase in mass but drop of fat (and i mean more than normal) ... i think with this protocol you can actually cause hyperplasia and cause , after so many years that i BB i decided to compete , i wonna compete and make a bang , if you know what i mean.
> If this protocol enhances me alot and add me the mass i want while bulking , i will continue it throughout my prep.Else i might do a classic 8iu ED protocol with hgh ...
> We'll see .... ofcourse any thought are always welcome


I am very interested to see how you react to such a high dose, if it works then i will definitly look into something similar for myself. I understand that you want to make a BIG impression when you compete and im sure you will do!

How do you plan on splitting the 30iu's?

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## Xtralarg

> i do feel light lightt pins , very light these days 
> 
> 
> do i take the t4 pills 5 on and 2 off or everyday ?


Well if you can handle the sides and wnat to increase the dose then do so, I take my T4 ed.

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## NotSmall

> If you're cruising then thats ideal!
> 
> *Have you done any short heavy cycles?*


I'm currently cruising on prop and 10iu riptropin ed - 5iu at bedtime and 5iu on waking before am cardio.

I have been on the 10iu GH ed now for nearly 6 months and cycled during that time with great results.

I am planning a 4 week blast in a few weeks, something like this:

140mg prop ed
100mg tren ace ed
200mg winstrol ed (oral)
20/30iu lantus insulin with breakfast
2mg PEG MGF PWO mon,wed,fri split bilaterally in bodyparts worked

I will at least continue with 10iu GH ed but am contemplating adding in another 10iu PWO mon,wed & fri.

Thoughts?

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## Xtralarg

> I'm currently cruising on prop and 10iu riptropin ed - 5iu at bedtime and 5iu on waking before am cardio.
> 
> I have been on the 10iu GH ed now for nearly 6 months and cycled during that time with great results.
> 
> I am planning a 4 week blast in a few weeks, something like this:
> 
> 140mg prop ed
> 100mg tren ace ed
> 200mg winstrol ed (oral)
> ...


Hey thanks for the input its gresatly appreciated!

I really like the aas cycle, I can see some rock hard gains coming from it.

A question though regarding your HGH admistation time, why have you chosen to have 5iu's at bedtime?

Also adding the extra 10iu's PWO mon,wed and fri...are those your only training days?

Ive read a lot about latnus insulin, how do you find it compared to a fast acting insulin?

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## BJJ

Intelligent thread, good idea.

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## Xtralarg

> Intelligent thread, good idea.


Thanks BJJ.....please share your experience with us!

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## NotSmall

> Hey thanks for the input its gresatly appreciated!
> 
> I really like the aas cycle, I can see some rock hard gains coming from it.
> 
> A question though regarding your HGH admistation time, why have you chosen to have 5iu's at bedtime?
> 
> Also adding the extra 10iu's PWO mon,wed and fri...are those your only training days?
> 
> Ive read a lot about latnus insulin, how do you find it compared to a fast acting insulin?


No Problem bud - like the idea of the thread!  :Thumps Up: 

Yeah I'm really looking forward to running it - I get great gains from tren but it does turn me into a bit of a cunt but I reckon I can fight it for 4 weeks ha!

The 5iu at bedtime is simply following the logic that if thats when our bodies release it then thats probably the time it works best, I like to think its helping me to grow in my sleep etc

Yeah I only train mon, wed & fri - big believer in "less is more" - hardest lesson to learn in BBing IMO!

I don't necessarily need to add the extra GH PWO but I feel that as I've been on 10iu ed for nearly 6 months I would like to up it for the 4 week blast just to absolutely super-saturate every muscle building mechanism - if that makes sense?

I haven't run the lantus yet but Maxtiter argues the case for it as opposed to fast acting slin very convincingly and whilst the science is a bit beyond me it is clear he knows what he is talking about - a few of the boys over there have tried it, some loved it, some didn't so I figure I'd better give it a go!

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## Xtralarg

> No Problem bud - like the idea of the thread! 
> 
> Yeah I'm really looking forward to running it - I get great gains from tren but it does turn me into a bit of a cunt but I reckon I can fight it for 4 weeks ha!
> 
> The 5iu at bedtime is simply following the logic that if thats when our bodies release it then thats probably the time it works best, I like to think its helping me to grow in my sleep etc
> 
> Yeah I only train mon, wed & fri - big believer in "less is more" - hardest lesson to learn in BBing IMO!
> 
> I don't necessarily need to add the extra GH PWO but I feel that as I've been on 10iu ed for nearly 6 months I would like to up it for the 4 week blast just to absolutely super-saturate every muscle building mechanism - if that makes sense?
> ...


Well I figured we need a serious HGH thread as so many good guys use it but not much is said about it...until now I hope!

I agree that having the 5iu's at bedtime will help you sleep but I am concerned that it will supress your own natural production as its biggest pulse out of the 6-9 we have each day is produced shorty afetr we fall asleep at night. Have you got conflicting info mate?

You will have to let us know how the insulin works for you.

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## NotSmall

> Well I figured we need a serious HGH thread as so many good guys use it but not much is said about it...until now I hope!
> 
> I agree that having the 5iu's at bedtime will help you sleep but I am concerned that it will supress your own natural production as its biggest pulse out of the 6-9 we have each day is produced shorty afetr we fall asleep at night. Have you got conflicting info mate?
> 
> You will have to let us know how the insulin works for you.


As far as the suppression of our nighttime release I have seen a study that seemed to indicate that the IGF spike that would inhibit the endogenous release occurs quite some time after the GH is injected and therefore bedtime injects would not disturb the nocturnal pulse - however this is not really my justification for the bedtime injection - I think that if you are running 2-4iu ed then yeah you probably don't want to compromise that nocturnal pulse, but when you're injecting 8-10ius ed that nighttime pulse becomes somewhat less crucial, in fact I would go so far as to say irrelevent when weighed against the extra benefits (albeit theorised) of copying nature and using GH at the time our bodies release the bulk of it.

I will certainly let you know how the lantus works out  :Wink:

----------


## Xtralarg

> As far as the suppression of our nighttime release I have seen a study that seemed to indicate that the IGF spike that would inhibit the endogenous release occurs quite some time after the GH is injected and therefore bedtime injects would not disturb the nocturnal pulse - however this is not really my justification for the bedtime injection - I think that if you are running 2-4iu ed then yeah you probably don't want to compromise that nocturnal pulse, but when you're injecting 8-10ius ed that nighttime pulse becomes somewhat less crucial, in fact I would go so far as to say irrelevent when weighed against the extra benefits (albeit theorised) of copying nature and using GH at the time our bodies release the bulk of it.
> 
> I will certainly let you know how the lantus works out


I take on board what you have said, I remember reading an old redbaron post advising againt bedtime shots and its something ive always stuck to. I dont like the idea of risking 'wasting free gh' by supressing my own at nighttime but if you have seen a study that says this is not the case then i might give it a try and see how it works for me.

Thanks for your quality input mate....keep it coming!

----------


## alextg

> I am very interested to see how you react to such a high dose, if it works then i will definitly look into something similar for myself. I understand that you want to make a BIG impression when you compete and im sure you will do!
> 
> How do you plan on splitting the 30iu's?


Days 1-3: 25iu
Days 4-5: 40iu

*25iu days*

5.30 - 5iu
10 - 5iu
14.30 - 5iu
18.30 - 5iu
22.30 - 5iu

*40iu days*

5.30 - 5iu
10 - 10iu
14.30 - 5iu
18.30 - 10iu
22.30 - 10iu

Thats what im thinking but thats not final ...

----------


## NotSmall

> I take on board what you have said, I remember reading an old redbaron post advising againt bedtime shots and its something ive always stuck to. I dont like the idea of risking 'wasting free gh' by supressing my own at nighttime but if you have seen a study that says this is not the case then i might give it a try and see how it works for me.
> 
> Thanks for your quality input mate....keep it coming!


Yeah these things stick with us when we read them early on because we take them as gospel and forget that they are just the opinions of other people - don't get me wrong some of them are very well educated opinions, especially guys like RedBaron, but they are opinions nonetheless - even when they are based on studies they still have to be interpreted as there are no clinical trials currently in place that are concerned with "How to get massive" lol

Even the study I was referring to was not clear cut, some of the guys over there were saying it meant one thing, some another - but it at least threw the subject open to debate.

Like I said though - the study is not really the reason I run it at night - I just like the idea of copying nature and think that the lost pulse at night is of negligeable importance when you're running upwards of 8iu.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Yeah these things stick with us when we read them early on because we take them as gospel and forget that they are just the opinions of other people - don't get me wrong some of them are very well educated opinions, especially guys like RedBaron, but they are opinions nonetheless - even when they are based on studies they still have to be interpreted as there are no clinical trials currently in place that are concerned with "How to get massive" lol
> 
> Even the study I was referring to was not clear cut, some of the guys over there were saying it meant one thing, some another - but it at least threw the subject open to debate.
> 
> Like I said though - the study is not really the reason I run it at night - I just like the idea of copying nature and think that the lost pulse at night is of negligeable importance when you're running upwards of 8iu.


Well ive just found the RB post and although it does make perfect sence it is not backed up by a study so I agree with what you say. 

How long have you been using HGH for now?

----------


## Xtralarg

> Days 1-3: 25iu
> Days 4-5: 40iu
> 
> *25iu days*
> 
> 5.30 - 5iu
> 10 - 5iu
> 14.30 - 5iu
> 18.30 - 5iu
> ...


Im interested as to why you dont split the weekly dosage evenly between the 5 days? Any reason?

----------


## NotSmall

> Well ive just found the RB post and although it does make perfect sence it is not backed up by a study so I agree with what you say. 
> 
> How long have you been using HGH for now?


I've been on this time since january and aim to stay on indefinitely.

I first used GH back in '04 I think and since then have done runs of varying lengths and dosage protocols, 

5iu ed + 10iu PWO mon,wed,fri

20iu PWO mon,wed,fri

I am kinda of the belief that the timings aren't overly crucial and that its more the total number of iu's per week that dictates the results - but it's fun trying different methods!

----------


## BignBig

> Excellent post BignBig, thank you for sharing such detailed info with us. I can relate to much of what you have said, you havent mentioned any CTS or joint pain though, have you suffered at all with any of them?
> Not feeling any of that?!?
> 
> One thing that worries me slightly is that you only gained 1kg on your last cycle (12 weeks total, Test e (750 mgs/week) + Deca (600 mgs/week). Even if you didnt train and ate a poor diest (which I can see you didnt) then you would gain much more than that in water retention alone.....therefore it makes me think your AAS may not of been real? Did you get it from a relaible source or brew it yourself? Either way I would make double sure that for your next cycle you have some good quality AAS. 
> Been buying from this guy since I started ASS. I had all AAS sides. I dont retain water. I'm one of those lucky ones!? I'll change my supplier next cycle ..
> 
> That leads me on to your HGH dosage for that cycle, try to get your dosage up to around the 6-8iu mark when you start your cycle as like you have said the synergy between HGH,AAS and T4 is amazing!
> Working on it ..
> 
> What protocol are you using for you HGH at the moment?


2iu when I wake up and 2 iu around luch time 12.30PM

----------


## BignBig

> As i was saying to the other thread , my blast will be for 5 days takin around 150iu totally and then for 3 weeks i'll b on ghrp-6 (most probably) so i can keep gh levels elevated.
> AAS cycle will have about 1.5-2g test , 1-1.5g eq and around 700mg tren (per week) ...
> Its too soon to actually give more details as all this will start this September , and i still havent got full details on the gf blast method i'll follow ...


Id like to understand what risks this methods carries with it?

----------


## alextg

> Id like to understand what risks this methods carries with it?


unknown ? :P Atm as i've read the only thing is the bad sides you get these days ....

----------


## alextg

> Im interested as to why you dont split the weekly dosage evenly between the 5 days? Any reason?


Well i've read that some users did that and they were takin like 30-40iu for these days and others started with a "small" amount for the first days and then loaded ... like i said its still early to know the exact protocol i'll do but you'll b informed when i'll start and what exactly i'll do ...

----------


## Xtralarg

> I've been on this time since january and aim to stay on indefinitely.
> 
> I first used GH back in '04 I think and since then have done runs of varying lengths and dosage protocols, 
> 
> 5iu ed + 10iu PWO mon,wed,fri
> 
> 20iu PWO mon,wed,fri
> 
> I am kinda of the belief that the timings aren't overly crucial and that its more the total number of iu's per week that dictates the results - but it's fun trying different methods!


Have you ever tried EOD?

I have read books that state this is a good protocol because it more accurately replicates the human pusile frequency of gh.

I have tried eod and had excellent results, but i have to say they were no better or worse than 5 on 2 off.....i guess like most other things its down to the individual and how they react.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Well i've read that some users did that and they were takin like 30-40iu for these days and others started with a "small" amount for the first days and then loaded ... like i said its still early to know the exact protocol i'll do but you'll b informed when i'll start and what exactly i'll do ...


I look forward to it alex, its very interesting!

----------


## Xtralarg

> 2iu when I wake up and 2 iu around luch time 12.30PM


Ok thats fine....any thoughts on my question about your 2lb gain from your last cycle?

----------


## NotSmall

> Have you ever tried EOD?
> 
> I have read books that state this is a good protocol because it more accurately replicates the human pusile frequency of gh.
> 
> I have tried eod and had excellent results, but i have to say they were no better or worse than 5 on 2 off.....i guess like most other things its down to the individual and how they react.


Nah, the closest to that I've done is the 20iu mon,wed,fri shot PWO with 12iu humalog which seemed very effective, but like we have both said - not necessarily any more or less effective than other dosing regimens.

Max makes a very convincing scientific argument AGAINST the use of fast acting insulin PWO, however I have always thought that anecdotal eveidence from a decent amount of well respected peers is worth more than all the studies/science in the world (until someone actually funds a study entitled "The most effective administration of Growth Hormone for the purpose of bodybuilding" - don't hold your breath  :Wink:  ) and I know LOADS of guys who have reported fantastic results from the GH + fast slin PWO combo.

OK I have just made my own mind up, lol - during my 4 week blast I will continue with the 5iu GH at bedtime and 5iu GH upon waking and add an additional 10iu GH + 10iu fast slin PWO on mon,wed & fri.

----------


## babyface770

> Well if you can handle the sides and wnat to increase the dose then do so, I take my T4 ed.


okay will do .. il take it to 3IU today. but i just took a look at my ankles and its exactly as what you said, they look BLOATED like hell ummm hahahaha they look funny 

just a stupid question thats been on my mind , now someone hits lets say 6-8IU will it only build muslce or burn fat and build muscle ?

----------


## Xtralarg

> Nah, the closest to that I've done is the 20iu mon,wed,fri shot PWO with 12iu humalog which seemed very effective, but like we have both said - not necessarily any more or less effective than other dosing regimens.
> 
> Max makes a very convincing scientific argument AGAINST the use of fast acting insulin PWO, however I have always thought that anecdotal eveidence from a decent amount of well respected peers is worth more than all the studies/science in the world (until someone actually funds a study entitled "The most effective administration of Growth Hormone for the purpose of bodybuilding" - don't hold your breath  ) and I know LOADS of guys who have reported fantastic results from the GH + fast slin PWO combo.
> 
> OK I have just made my own mind up, lol - during my 4 week blast I will continue with the 5iu GH at bedtime and 5iu GH upon waking and add an additional 10iu GH + 10iu fast slin PWO on mon,wed & fri.


Is that why you decided to use the latnus insulin?

I like the sound of your cycle, what sort of gains are you hoping for?

----------


## Xtralarg

> okay will do .. il take it to 3IU today. but i just took a look at my ankles and its exactly as what you said, they look BLOATED like hell ummm hahahaha they look funny 
> 
> just a stupid question thats been on my mind , now someone hits lets say 6-8IU will it only build muslce or burn fat and build muscle ?


Well dont worry about the bloat its a good sign! And it will go down in time.

6-8iu's is the point where magicl things start to happen! You will build muscle and burn fat....something which is hard to do under normal circumstances.

Are you happy with your cycle so far?

----------


## NotSmall

> Is that why you decided to use the latnus insulin ?
> 
> I like the sound of your cycle, what sort of gains are you hoping for?


Yeah Maxtiter is some kind of russian doctor - he blows my mind with some of the stuff he comes out with and he made a very strong case for the use of long acting slin, initially he favoured levemir/detemir (another long acting slin) but then he dug out some more research that seems to indicate that glargine slin i.e. lantus has 30 times the effect on IGF-1 receptors that levemir has and therefore should be ALOT more effective at building muscle. 

_"It is still controversially discussed whether insulin triggers mitogenic effects through its own receptor, by interacting with IGF-1R or by activating insulin/IGF-1 hybrid receptors (Eckel, 2005).

In the light of these discussions, the structural changes of the insulin molecule to create rapid- or long-acting insulin analogues become increasingly important. It is known that modifications in the B10 and B26-B30 region are able to change the affinity towards the IGF-1R (Slieker et al., 1997). This has been demonstrated for AspB10 insulin which is known for its strong tumourigenic action (Drejer, 1992). Studies investigating receptor binding properties of insulin analogues have shown that AspB10 insulin and insulin glargine have a 6 to 8-fold and insulin lispro a 1.5-fold higher affinity to the IGF-1R compared with regular insulin (Kurtzhals et al., 2000), while insulin aspart (Bornfeldt et al., 1991) and insulin glulisine (Ciaraldi et al., 2005; Rakatzi et al., 2003a) have a low affinity to the IGF-1R similar to regular insulin. For insulin detemir a 5-fold lower affinity to the IGF-1R has been found (Kurtzhals et al., 2000)."_ 

He advocates a working up to a dose of around 30ius of lantus with breakfast which will work all day and people do not seem to have any hypo problems because it does not lower blood sugar as quickly as the faster acting slins, it should just mean that you are soaking up every last bit of nutrition all day long!

I just want to pack on some serious lean mass before cutting again - I couldn't put a number on it as I have never done a short high dose cycle like this before so I do not really know what to expect.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Yeah Maxtiter on ukiron is some kind of russian doctor - he blows my mind with some of the stuff he comes out with and he made a very strong case for the use of long acting slin, initially he favoured levemir/detemir (another long acting slin) but then he dug out some more research that seems to indicate that glargine slin i.e. lantus has 30 times the effect on IGF-1 receptors that levemir has and therefore should be ALOT more effective at building muscle. 
> 
> _"It is still controversially discussed whether insulin triggers mitogenic effects through its own receptor, by interacting with IGF-1R or by activating insulin/IGF-1 hybrid receptors (Eckel, 2005).
> 
> In the light of these discussions, the structural changes of the insulin molecule to create rapid- or long-acting insulin analogues become increasingly important. It is known that modifications in the B10 and B26-B30 region are able to change the affinity towards the IGF-1R (Slieker et al., 1997). This has been demonstrated for AspB10 insulin which is known for its strong tumourigenic action (Drejer, 1992). Studies investigating receptor binding properties of insulin analogues have shown that AspB10 insulin and insulin glargine have a 6 to 8-fold and insulin lispro a 1.5-fold higher affinity to the IGF-1R compared with regular insulin (Kurtzhals et al., 2000), while insulin aspart (Bornfeldt et al., 1991) and insulin glulisine (Ciaraldi et al., 2005; Rakatzi et al., 2003a) have a low affinity to the IGF-1R similar to regular insulin. For insulin detemir a 5-fold lower affinity to the IGF-1R has been found (Kurtzhals et al., 2000)."_ 
> 
> He advocates a working up to a dose of around 30ius of lantus with breakfast which will work all day and people do not seem to have any hypo problems because it does not lower blood sugar as quickly as the faster acting slins, it should just mean that you are soaking up every last bit of nutrition all day long!
> 
> I just want to pack on some serious lean mass before cutting again - I couldn't put a number on it as I have never done a short high dose cycle like this before so I do not really know what to expect.


Well if thats true and the effects of a long acting slin are such then it is a no brainer! I will keep reading and looking to see what people report!

I reckon you should be adding at lthe very least 1-1.5 kilos ed with a cycle like that.......

----------


## babyface770

> Well dont worry about the bloat its a good sign! And it will go down in time.
> 
> 6-8iu's is the point where magicl things start to happen! You will build muscle and burn fat....something which is hard to do under normal circumstances.
> 
> Are you happy with your cycle so far?


well im very excited about the cycle but im having some "life issues" so its taking the fun away from gym and the excitement to some extent, but i hope everything will be over soon and ill enjoy this  :Smilie:  im off to bed right now (11:50 pm) ill wake up at dawn and treat my body with some 3IU  :Stick Out Tongue:  ,, yummy cant wait

thanks again for everything

----------


## NotSmall

> Well if thats true and the effects of a long acting slin are such then it is a no brainer! I will keep reading and looking to see what people report!
> 
> I reckon you should be adding at lthe very least 1-1.5 kilos ed with a cycle like that.......


Yup - I'm going to drop my prop dose right down in the 2 weeks before I start then eat like FUCK, take digestive enzymes and R-ALA before every meal to make sure I absorb every last calorie and obviously will be running thyroid hormones to keep my protein turn over rate at full tilt - really quite excited about it - should be starting on the 5th July!

----------


## Xtralarg

> Yup - I'm going to drop my prop dose right down in the 2 weeks before I start then eat like FUCK, take digestive enzymes and R-ALA before every meal to make sure I absorb every last calorie and obviously will be running thyroid hormones to keep my protein turn over rate at full tilt - really quite excited about it - should be starting on the 5th July!


I like the cycle mate! Just not 100% about the slow insulin , maybe its me being old school though? Like I said I will keep an open mind and keep reading about it!

----------


## Xtralarg

> well im very excited about the cycle but im having some "life issues" so its taking the fun away from gym and the excitement to some extent, but i hope everything will be over soon and ill enjoy this  im off to bed right now (11:50 pm) ill wake up at dawn and treat my body with some 3IU  ,, yummy cant wait
> 
> thanks again for everything


No worries....personal problems are the only things that have ever held me back BBing!

Keep us informed on your progress.

----------


## NotSmall

> I like the cycle mate! Just not 100% about the slow insulin, maybe its me being old school though? Like I said I will keep an open mind and keep reading about it!


Free your mind and let go of the dogma... lol

By the end of July I will either be fat, dead or massive and we will know for sure!

----------


## Xtralarg

> Free your mind and let go of the dogma... lol
> 
> By the end of July I will either be fat, dead or massive and we will know for sure!


Well lets hope its the latter!

----------


## BignBig

> Ok thats fine....any thoughts on my question about your 2lb gain from your last cycle?


Thanks for asking,

I had the usual sides I get from AAS?! And I used this supplier since I started using AAS. I always do blood test after the cycle. So my test, LH and FSH were shut.
I admit my diet was poor. So after the cycle I decided to address my diet which I did. I also thought it could be my form and technique at the GYM so I hired an excellent trainer. He is helping me and I learned a lot from him . 
However, I decided to change my supplier

----------


## BignBig

> Free your mind and let go of the dogma... lol
> 
> By the end of July I will either be fat, dead or massive and we will know for sure!


That's the spirit  :Wink/Grin:  
I love your thinking  :7up:

----------


## Xtralarg

> Thanks for asking,
> 
> I had the usual sides I get from AAS?! And I used this supplier since I started using AAS. I always do blood test after the cycle. So my test, LH and FSH were shut.
> I admit my diet was poor. So after the cycle I decided to address my diet which I did. I also thought it could be my form and technique at the GYM so I hired an excellent trainer. He is helping me and I learned a lot from him . 
> However, I decided to change my supplier


How long did you leave between that cycle and the one before it?

----------


## Hazard

> Yeah Maxtiter is some kind of russian doctor - he blows my mind with some of the stuff he comes out with and he made a very strong case for the use of long acting slin, initially he favoured levemir/detemir (another long acting slin) but then he dug out some more research that seems to indicate that glargine slin i.e. lantus has 30 times the effect on IGF-1 receptors that levemir has and therefore should be ALOT more effective at building muscle. 
> 
> _"It is still controversially discussed whether insulin triggers mitogenic effects through its own receptor, by interacting with IGF-1R or by activating insulin/IGF-1 hybrid receptors (Eckel, 2005)._
> 
> _In the light of these discussions, the structural changes of the insulin molecule to create rapid- or long-acting insulin analogues become increasingly important. It is known that modifications in the B10 and B26-B30 region are able to change the affinity towards the IGF-1R (Slieker et al., 1997). This has been demonstrated for AspB10 insulin which is known for its strong tumourigenic action (Drejer, 1992). Studies investigating receptor binding properties of insulin analogues have shown that AspB10 insulin and insulin glargine have a 6 to 8-fold and insulin lispro a 1.5-fold higher affinity to the IGF-1R compared with regular insulin (Kurtzhals et al., 2000), while insulin aspart (Bornfeldt et al., 1991) and insulin glulisine (Ciaraldi et al., 2005; Rakatzi et al., 2003a) have a low affinity to the IGF-1R similar to regular insulin. For insulin detemir a 5-fold lower affinity to the IGF-1R has been found (Kurtzhals et al., 2000)."_ 
> 
> He advocates a working up to a dose of around 30ius of lantus with breakfast which will work all day and people do not seem to have any hypo problems because it does not lower blood sugar as quickly as the faster acting slins, it should just mean that you are soaking up every last bit of nutrition all day long!
> 
> I just want to pack on some serious lean mass before cutting again - I couldn't put a number on it as I have never done a short high dose cycle like this before so I do not really know what to expect.


 
DUDE..... keep me informed on your progress. One of my good friends is running 5iu's hgh, no less than 750 test and throws tren and dbol in there on and off..... also uses 10iu's humalin-R PWO with 100mcg's IGF-1..... this kid is a beast. I always remember reading humalog was the best slin to use because it's out so fast but you've got me curious. 

I'm not ready to take the slin plunge yet but I'm considering it for my winter run.....

I also may be upping my gh to 10iu's/day while I run my test/tren/mast this summer.

~Haz~

----------


## NotSmall

> DUDE..... keep me informed on your progress. One of my good friends is running 5iu's hgh, no less than 750 test and throws tren and dbol in there on and off..... also uses 10iu's humalin-R PWO with 100mcg's IGF-1..... this kid is a beast. *I always remember reading humalog was the best slin to use because it's out so fast but you've got me curious.* 
> 
> I'm not ready to take the slin plunge yet but I'm considering it for my winter run.....
> 
> I also may be upping my gh to 10iu's/day while I run my test/tren/mast this summer.
> 
> ~Haz~


This is what we all thought because we read it and it seems to make logical sense, what Maxititer says is that because the effect of humalog is SO quick it does not have time to spread throughout the body but instead tends to cause the vast majority of blood sugar to to pushed into the liver rather than skeletal muscle.

I'll be running my cycle with long acting slin in july so I will be able to report my actual experience as opposed to just quoting my mate Max lol

----------


## Hazard

> This is what we all thought because we read it and it seems to make logical sense, what Maxititer says is that because the effect of humalog is SO quick it does not have time to spread throughout the body but instead tends to cause the vast majority of blood sugar to to pushed into the liver rather than skeletal muscle.
> 
> I'll be running my cycle with long acting slin in july so I will be able to report my actual experience as opposed to just quoting my mate Max lol


I can't wait..... you gotta keep us informed LOL

I would imagine you've got to be eating extremilly clean all day long on it.....

When will you be injecting it?

~Haz~

----------


## NotSmall

> I can't wait..... you gotta keep us informed LOL
> 
> I would imagine you've got to be eating extremilly clean all day long on it.....
> 
> When will you be injecting it?
> 
> ~Haz~


Yeah I'll post up in here about it, I'm not one for keeping a log to be honest so this thread will be ideal.

Apparently the "If you consume any fat while insulin is active it will be immediately stored as fat" rule is another bit of bro-science and is nowhere NEAR as crucial as people parrot on the boards - I will be eating clean regardless though!

I will be injecting it all with breakfast.

----------


## BignBig

> How long did you leave between that cycle and the one before it?


I think you got it?! 2 months only?!

----------


## Xtralarg

> I think you got it?! 2 months only?!


Depending on PCT and your HPTA recovery etc, but yes I could of been.
I know you say you get your bloods done after a cycle but do you get them done before? I think that is crucial if you are to know if you are fully recovered befroe your next cycle.

----------


## Xtralarg

Bump for more input........

----------


## BignBig

> I'm currently cruising on prop and 10iu riptropin ed - 5iu at bedtime and 5iu on waking before am cardio.
> 
> I have been on the 10iu GH ed now for nearly 6 months and cycled during that time with great results.
> 
> I am planning a 4 week blast in a few weeks, something like this:
> 
> 140mg prop ed
> 100mg tren ace ed
> 200mg winstrol ed (oral)
> ...


I'm interested to know how you gonna split the 2mg of MGF?
Its in my "to do" list. You the first user I found using above 100mcg?

----------


## babyface770

Hey guys !!

I noticed I stopped getting the "numb and tingly" feeling after my shots , anything wrong here ? 

And I'm sure the bloat is starting to fade away a little

----------


## Xtralarg

> Hey guys !!
> 
> I noticed I stopped getting the "numb and tingly" feeling after my shots , anything wrong here ? 
> 
> And I'm sure the bloat is starting to fade away a little


Its time to increase your dose a little then!

----------


## BJJ

> Hey guys !!
> 
> I noticed I stopped getting the "numb and tingly" feeling after my shots , anything wrong here ? 
> 
> And I'm sure the bloat is starting to fade away a little


It is normal, be happy...

----------


## babyface770

Ummm woah I think I'm climbing the IU ladder pretty quickly ,,, so ill take it to 4IU tomorrow dawn  :Smilie: 

Thanks

----------


## Xtralarg

> Ummm woah I think I'm climbing the IU ladder pretty quickly ,,, so ill take it to 4IU tomorrow dawn 
> 
> Thanks


Yes do that, then you should feel the numbness etc again

----------


## BJJ

Tomorrow I am going to do 2 things in order to achieve one:

1. Changing brand of somatropin from green tops to yellow ones
2. Bumping from 4 to 10 iu ed (5x2)

to...

FEEL SOME SIDES!!!

----------


## Xtralarg

> Tomorrow I am going to do 2 things in order to achieve one:
> 
> 1. Changing brand of somatropin from green tops to yellow ones
> 2. Bumping from 4 to 10 iu ed (5x2)
> 
> to...
> 
> FEEL SOME SIDES!!!


I like your style  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## babyface770

> Tomorrow I am going to do 2 things in order to achieve one:
> 
> 1. Changing brand of somatropin from green tops to yellow ones
> 2. Bumping from 4 to 10 iu ed (5x2)
> 
> to...
> 
> FEEL SOME SIDES!!!


HELL YEAHH !!!  :7up: 






> Yes do that, then you should feel the numbness etc again


my joy in life ahhhhhhhh  :Smilie:

----------


## Xtralarg

> HELL YEAHH !!! 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my joy in life ahhhhhhhh


So you are enjoying the HGH then I take it!?!

----------


## babyface770

> So you are enjoying the HGH then I take it!?!


more than you can think !! but the $$ is killing me 

here is a pic i took yesterday as you can see the bloat is kind of going away for at least thats what i hope

----------


## Xtralarg

You look in good shape, you have a good lean base to build on.

I know HGH isnt cheap but like everything else in life you get what you pay for!

----------


## alextg

> more than you can think !! but the $$ is killing me 
> 
> here is a pic i took yesterday as you can see the bloat is kind of going away for at least thats what i hope


Lookin good mate ... cause of the hgh , it will b easier to bulk up and keep fat levels down.So u need to tweak your diet and start some serious bulking !

----------


## BignBig

*2nd Month / Week 8:*

My energy level picked up, feeling less tired. I decided to raise the dosage to 8iu from next week. Yesterday I introduced Insulin (fast acting) to my stack. I injected 10 iu PWO; didn’t feel nothing as sides?!? Planning to inject insulin PWO

My question is for how long I can run insulin?

----------


## babyface770

thanks guys  :Smilie: 

okay so i hit 4IU moments ago and i feel tremendous heat in my right,a weird feeling cant really say if its numb or not but it sure as hell aint normal 

im off to bed  :Smilie:

----------


## babyface770

Woaaaah after I got into bed I couldn't feel my hands , iv never got this much numbness before , I'm loving it

----------


## Xtralarg

> thanks guys 
> 
> okay so i hit 4IU moments ago and i feel tremendous heat in my right,a weird feeling cant really say if its numb or not but it sure as hell aint normal 
> 
> im off to bed





> Woaaaah after I got into bed I couldn't feel my hands , iv never got this much numbness before , I'm loving it


It sounds like you have good quality HGH......be happy!

----------


## Xtralarg

> *2nd Month / Week 8:*
> 
> My energy level picked up, feeling less tired. I decided to raise the dosage to 8iu from next week. Yesterday I introduced Insulin (fast acting) to my stack. I injected 10 iu PWO; didnt feel nothing as sides?!? Planning to inject insulin PWO
> 
> My question is for how long I can run insulin?


When it comes to insulin my opinons may be slightly 'old school' but I have my reasons.

IMO insulin should only be used by pro's or guys who have many many years of experience using drugs. The reason for this is simple, insulin can kill you.

IMO if insulin is going to used then it should be done so for short periods i.e 4-6 weeks, this will help avoid some of the long lasting side effects that can be caused by long term usage.

----------


## BJJ

> When it comes to insulin my opinons may be slightly 'old school' but I have my reasons.
> 
> IMO insulin should only be used by pro's or guys who have many many years of experience using drugs. The reason for this is simple, insulin can kill you.
> 
> IMO if insulin is going to used then it should be done so for short periods i.e 4-6 weeks, this will help avoid some of the long lasting side effects that can be caused by long term usage.


...x2

Words of Wisdom!

----------


## babyface770

Xxtralarge is my god father !!

Okay a question I know ill be asking very soon ,, at what dosage should I start splitting my hits into two and when are the best timings ?

----------


## Hazard

> Xxtralarge is my god father !!
> 
> Okay a question I know ill be asking very soon ,, at what dosage should I start splitting my hits into two and when are the best timings ?


I would split the dosage after 4iu's.....

Right now i'm on 8iu's and I try to do 4iu's between 6 and 8am and then another 4iu's around 6pm (post work out)

Theres a bunch of ways guys run their HGH..... I personally think the most common is early AM and early afternoon.....

~Haz~

----------


## marcus300

> I would split the dosage after 4iu's.....
> 
> Right now i'm on 8iu's and I try to do 4iu's between 6 and 8am and then another 4iu's around 6pm (post work out)
> 
> Theres a bunch of ways guys run their HGH..... I personally think the most common is early AM and early afternoon.....
> 
> ~Haz~


I agree ^

There are many ways to run GH but ive had excellent results from the above protocol, I would start splitting the dose when you hit 4ius+ IMHO.

In time GH can do remarkable things!

----------


## babyface770

wow thanks for the fast replies guys , much appreciated 

so check this out , hopefully ill start on 5IU in the coming days , and i usually take my shot at 4amish , so we keep this the same time and the next shot would be post workout which would be around 7-8 PM , how does that sound ?

shot 1 : 2.5 IU @ 4-5AM
shot 2 : 2.5 IU @ 7-8 PM

----------


## marcus300

> wow thanks for the fast replies guys , much appreciated 
> 
> so check this out , hopefully ill start on 5IU in the coming days , and i usually take my shot at 4amish , so we keep this the same time and the next shot would be post workout which would be around 7-8 PM , how does that sound ?
> 
> shot 1 : 2.5 IU @ 4-5AM
> shot 2 : 2.5 IU @ 7-8 PM


If your injecting your first shot at 4-5am, your second wants to be around 3-4pm IMHO

----------


## babyface770

Umm that's kinda impossible cause I finish work at 6 pm

How about if I take my first shot at 8 am when I wake up ? And second shot at 7-8 pm

----------


## marcus300

> Umm that's kinda impossible cause I finish work at 6 pm
> 
> How about if I take my first shot at 8 am when I wake up ? And second shot at 7-8 pm


Personally I would keep it to mid afternoon but I do know others who inject at times you have mentioned

----------


## babyface770

The first timings or second ? 


And what do you suggest I do ?

----------


## Xtralarg

The reason I shoot HGH in the early moring is because that is when our cortisol levels are at their highest and HGH supresses them. As the day goes on cortisol levels decrease until about 6pm when our daily output is over, this is why I like to shoot early am then early pm approx 1hr after my lunch.

----------


## babyface770

I really can't do that  :Frown:  , there is no way I can hit at work

----------


## Xtralarg

> I really can't do that  , there is no way I can hit at work


Dont worry about it, just shoot it later on about an hour after you have eaten your evening meal then.....its really not going to make a great deal of difference at this stage.

----------


## BignBig

> When it comes to insulin my opinons may be slightly 'old school' but I have my reasons.
> 
> IMO insulin should only be used by pro's or guys who have many many years of experience using drugs. The reason for this is simple, insulin can kill you.
> 
> IMO if insulin is going to used then it should be done so for short periods i.e 4-6 weeks, this will help avoid some of the long lasting side effects that can be caused by long term usage.


Thanks for the advice. I'll run it for 4 weeks

----------


## babyface770

> Dont worry about it, just shoot it later on about an hour after you have eaten your evening meal then.....its really not going to make a great deal of difference at this stage.



Well I have my dinner at around 9-9:30 pm 

Oh my this is such a buzzkill that I can't have my shots at the proper time

----------


## Xtralarg

> Well I have my dinner at around 9-9:30 pm 
> 
> Oh my this is such a buzzkill that I can't have my shots at the proper time


What time do you train? 

What time do you finish work?

Dont let this time thing really get you down, its not a massive issue at all.

----------


## babyface770

Well I work from 9-5:30 or 6 

By the time I leave and reach the gym its around 6ish - I leave the gym at around 7:30

----------


## marcus300

Good thread XL, its nice to discuss the finer things in life  :Smilie:

----------


## Xtralarg

> Well I work from 9-5:30 or 6 
> 
> By the time I leave and reach the gym its around 6ish - I leave the gym at around 7:30


Im just going to put the HGH injection time to one side for a moment and ask you what you are having to eat/drink PWO? Are you waiting till 9.30 when you have your evening meal?

----------


## Xtralarg

> Good thread XL, its nice to discuss the finer things in life


Thanks  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## babyface770

> Im just going to put the HGH injection time to one side for a moment and ask you what you are having to eat/drink PWO? Are you waiting till 9.30 when you have your evening meal?



Well my PWO meal is a protien shake at the gym then I make a move to my house and when I reach I usually have a chiken breast with some steamed rice or bread 


Then I shower and change till its 9-9:30 and have 150 grams of salmon or fava beans

----------


## Xtralarg

I would fit it in between your evening meal and your supper then.

----------


## babyface770

> I would fit it in between your evening meal and your supper then.


 :Smilie:  okay sir thank you ,, ill stay on 4IU for a couple of days and see how it goes 

my schedule is like this

Sat: HIT
SUN: HIT
MONDAY: HIT
TUESDAY: HIT
WENDS: NO
THURSDAY : HIT
FRIDAY: NO

----------


## Xtralarg

> okay sir thank you ,, ill stay on 4IU for a couple of days and see how it goes 
> 
> my schedule is like this
> 
> Sat: HIT
> SUN: HIT
> MONDAY: HIT
> TUESDAY: HIT
> WENDS: NO
> ...


Thats the 1st time ive seem anyone split the off days, I dont see a problem with it though so carry on. On your days off work are you able to shoot your second shot early PM?

----------


## BJJ

@ Day 65 I started to inject hgh, 2.5 iu ed.
Today is day 104 since I started my cycle, I am running my PCT, I started to inject 10 iu ed and since a few weeks I was already injecting 4 iu ed.
I changed three different brands of somatropin, I always used a pregnancy test (negative) and my blood work shows my somatotropin levels to be higher they should be.
Also, at the end of my cycle my fat mass was around 12,5%, now I am around 10%.
I kept all of my strength, and when I say all I mean all, so I presume my LBM is still the same so I just lost some fat and the related water.

OK then, why AM I NOT FEELING ANY SIDES?

PS
I inject @ 5:30 am and then eat around 8:30 am and the second shot is 1 hour after lunch, around 3 or 3:30 pm.

----------


## Matt

So ive been having a chat today with a good friend, he's been running hgh now for six months and he was telling me this...

When he started at 4ius ed he would inject all 4ius after waking in the morning, about half an hour before his breakfast. He did this for 4 weeks and claimed to suffer no sides, infact he began to question his hgh and source. 

He was then advised to inject his gh several hours earlier which he did, and sure enough within a few days the sides started, hands turning numb and bloat.. He is currently on 10ius ed, he sets his alarm for 2am injects 5ius goes back to sleep then wakes again and injects the remaining 5ius at 6am. I can vouch that his gains after 6 months are very good, although he is running aas along side....

So this leads me to believe that eating to soon after injecting can in some way effect the gh, in a bad way. And that once im injecting twice daily would it not be better to inject in the same way as him as apposed to early morning and then pwo?? Im thinking that the pwo injection could be effected by food which is needed pwo especially carbs....

Any thoughts on this matter?????

----------


## babyface770

> Thats the 1st time ive seem anyone split the off days, I dont see a problem with it though so carry on. On your days off work are you able to shoot your second shot early PM?


well my hit day and off work day would only be on saturday , and sure i can hit early pm during my days off work

----------


## Xtralarg

> @ Day 65 I started to inject hgh, 2.5 iu ed.
> Today is day 104 since I started my cycle, I am running my PCT, I started to inject 10 iu ed and since a few weeks I was already injecting 4 iu ed.
> I changed three different brands of somatropin, I always used a pregnancy test (negative) and my blood work shows my somatotropin levels to be higher they should be.
> Also, at the end of my cycle my fat mass was around 12,5%, now I am around 10%.
> I kept all of my strength, and when I say all I mean all, so I presume my LBM is still the same so I just lost some fat and the related water.
> 
> OK then, why AM I NOT FEELING ANY SIDES?
> 
> PS
> I inject @ 5:30 am and then eat around 8:30 am and the second shot is 1 hour after lunch, around 3 or 3:30 pm.


I like your injection times they are perfect.

Well not everyone experiences CTS so I wouldnt worry about that, I really would of expected some kind of sides at 10iu though! 

Is your sodium intake low?

Its good that you have bloods done to confirm elivated levels, peace of mind is nice when HGH is involved!

----------


## Hazard

> So ive been having a chat today with a good friend, he's been running hgh now for six months and he was telling me this...
> 
> When he started at 4ius ed he would inject all 4ius after waking in the morning, about half an hour before his breakfast. He did this for 4 weeks and claimed to suffer no sides, infact he began to question his hgh and source. 
> 
> He was then advised to inject his gh several hours earlier which he did, and sure enough within a few days the sides started, hands turning numb and bloat.. He is currently on 10ius ed, he sets his alarm for 2am injects 5ius goes back to sleep then wakes again and injects the remaining 5ius at 6am. I can vouch that his gains after 6 months are very good, although he is running aas along side....
> 
> So this leads me to believe that eating to soon after injecting can in some way effect the gh, in a bad way. And that once im injecting twice daily would it not be better to inject in the same way as him as apposed to early morning and then pwo?? Im thinking that the pwo injection could be effected by food which is needed pwo especially carbs....
> 
> Any thoughts on this matter?????


My PWO injections seem to be fine. I get done working out..... shoot 4iu's and then have a glass of grape juice to spike insulin . I then take in 50grams of protein with very very little carbs. About 60-90 mins after that.... I eat my dinner.

~Haz~

----------


## NotSmall

> So ive been having a chat today with a good friend, he's been running hgh now for six months and he was telling me this...
> 
> When he started at 4ius ed he would inject all 4ius after waking in the morning, about half an hour before his breakfast. He did this for 4 weeks and claimed to suffer no sides, infact he began to question his hgh and source. 
> 
> He was then advised to inject his gh several hours earlier which he did, and sure enough within a few days the sides started, hands turning numb and bloat.. He is currently on 10ius ed, he sets his alarm for 2am injects 5ius goes back to sleep then wakes again and injects the remaining 5ius at 6am. I can vouch that his gains after 6 months are very good, although he is running aas along side....
> 
> So this leads me to believe that eating to soon after injecting can in some way effect the gh, in a bad way. And that once im injecting twice daily would it not be better to inject in the same way as him as apposed to early morning and then pwo?? Im thinking that the pwo injection could be effected by food which is needed pwo especially carbs....
> 
> Any thoughts on this matter?????


There are ALOT of different conclusions you could jump to from this information as to what is affecting the results from his GH i.e.
1) Proximity of injections to food (as you say)
2) Time of injection - does GH work better as we sleep?
3) Proximity of injections to each other - does injecting again soon after yield better results?

The trouble is not only that all of the above are possible explanations but also you are making one MASSIVE supposition - that sides necessarily equal effectiveness.

----------


## Matt

Yeah and finding studies on this is almost impossible, there seem to be 100's of different views and answers when it comes to timing.....

The only studies i can find have been carried out on those that have stopped producing gh naturally, and for these of course its recommended to administer at night before bed...

There are pro bber's that recommend am and early afternoon while others go for bed time. Some say split your dose in 2/4 and others saying take all in one go... 

Im now under the impression that its going to be a case of find what works best for me....

----------


## Xtralarg

One thing for sure is that cortisol levels are at their highest early morning so a gh shot then is optimal. As they decrease throughout the day it seems logical that a second one should be administered before they have dissapeared completely, therefore the early PM shot makes perfect sence.

----------


## BJJ

> I like your injection times they are perfect.
> 
> Well not everyone experiences CTS so I wouldnt worry about that, I really would of expected some kind of sides at 10iu though! 
> 
> Is your sodium intake low?
> 
> Its good that you have bloods done to confirm elivated levels, peace of mind is nice when HGH is involved!


Yes it is, I eat very clean and the only sodium I get is from the whole foods.
I await this week a new blood work where I checked either cortisol and hgh, as well as other values.
Again, I took the BW @ 7:30 am and I shot 5 iu @ 5:30.

If, even this BW shows my levels are elevated, then I am using somatropin for sure with this brand too.

But a question comes natural:
could it be I am injecting 192aa instead of 191aa? and this 1 too many could lead to experience no sides at all?

----------


## babyface770

just a question regarding side effects since we are on the topic 

for example last week i was on 3 IU and i wouldn't get sides and after i upped it to 4 i started feeling the side again

but hopefully in a couple of days ill start hitting 5IU which means ill have to cut my hits into 2.5 per shot(2 times per day), so how will i feel any sides since its a small dosage ?

----------


## Xtralarg

> Yes it is, I eat very clean and the only sodium I get is from the whole foods.
> I await this week a new blood work where I checked either cortisol and hgh, as well as other values.
> Again, I took the BW @ 7:30 am and I shot 5 iu @ 5:30.
> 
> If, even this BW shows my levels are elevated, then I am using somatropin for sure with this brand too.
> 
> But a question comes natural:
> could it be I am injecting 192aa instead of 191aa? and this 1 too many could lead to experience no sides at all?


I doubt it, not much 192aa around these days.

How long have you been on this brand of hgh? The body takes time to build up antibodies and therefore before this happens you would still get the sides, one sign that it could be 192 aa though is if you get red welts at the injection site? Does this happen?

----------


## Xtralarg

> just a question regarding side effects since we are on the topic 
> 
> for example last week i was on 3 IU and i wouldn't get sides and after i upped it to 4 i started feeling the side again
> 
> but hopefully in a couple of days ill start hitting 5IU which means ill have to cut my hits into 2.5 per shot(2 times per day), so how will i feel any sides since its a small dosage ?


You're right you may not feel the sides, my worst time is in bed after the AM shot.

See how splitting the shots works for you.

----------


## babyface770

> You're right you may not feel the sides, my worst time is in bed after the AM shot.
> 
> See how splitting the shots works for you.


im actually sad that i dont have a shot today  :Frown:

----------


## BJJ

> I doubt it, not much 192aa around these days.
> 
> How long have you been on this brand of hgh? The body takes time to build up antibodies and therefore before this happens you would still get the sides, one sign that it could be 192 aa though is if you get red welts at the injection site? Does this happen?


I am injecting this brand since two weeks and no I never got any red welts just sometimes I feel inside my skin, in the fat layer, like a little ball after the injection. Anyway, it happens only sometimes and in a few hours it goes away.

----------


## NotSmall

> I am injecting this brand since two weeks and no I never got any red welts just sometimes I feel inside my skin, in the fat layer, like a little ball after the injection. Anyway, it happens only sometimes and in a few hours it goes away.


Try injecting IM for a couple of days and see if you get sides then.

----------


## BJJ

> Try injecting IM for a couple of days and see if you get sides then.


Nice idea, I did not think about that before,
I will give it a try...

Actually, I could try also intravenously and see the difference, if any.

----------


## BJJ

This morning I followed what reported by 007.
So, I injected @ 2 am, then @ 5:45 am and ate breakast @ 9 am.
Result: no changes.

----------


## Matt

> This morning I followed what reported by 007.
> So, I injected @ 2 am, then @ 5:45 am and ate breakast @ 9 am.
> Result: no changes.


Yeah my friend that followed that protocol said it took a few days before he felt the sides...

I spent a few hours yesterday reading studies and other opinions from other web sites and im siding with the idea of early am and early pm..

It is strange how we need to feel those sides before we believe our gh is real....

----------


## NotSmall

I still reckon that if you are on a decent dose of 8iu+ ed then it renders the loss of the natural night time pulse irrelevent and early am / bedtime is the way to go.

Why does the body produce it then? Why do physicians prescribe it then?

Because that's when it works best.

----------


## marcus300

> I still reckon that if you are on a decent dose of 8iu+ ed then it renders the loss of the natural night time pulse irrelevent and early am / bedtime is the way to go.
> 
> Why does the body produce it then? Why do physicians prescribe it then?
> 
> Because that's when it works best.


Ive heard this before and I wonder do you have any studies or articles relating to this theory NS?

I know GH is as a negative feedback loop but is it dose related?

----------


## Xtralarg

Its a shame there are no real scientific studies on the timing of HGH shots and the impact it can have. I like the idea of cortisol supression and the fact that hgh does a damm good job of doing so is enough to persuade me to keep my early am and early pm shots, for now!

I must admit that I am tempted to try bedtime shots for a while to see what impact it has on me, one concern apart from the supression and therefore loss of the big nocturnal pulse is the sides that I suffer from post shot, this really hits me hard after my AM shot (5am) when i go back to bed, sometimes my arms are so numb they keep me awake! If I suffer like this at bedtime as well as early AM then Im not going to be getting enough sleep!!

----------


## babyface770

1 mg is 3IU or 2.7 ?

i do my shots according to 1mg =3

----------


## babyface770

1 mg is 3IU or 2.7 ?

i do my shots according to 1mg =3

----------


## NotSmall

> Ive heard this before and I wonder do you have any studies or articles relating to this theory NS?


No but it just makes logical sense to me that we mimic what our bodies do - if GH worked best in the daytime then wouldn't our bodies produce the biggest pulse then?




> I know GH is as a negative feedback loop but is it dose related?


I'm not sure but I think you may have misinterpreted what I meant when I said _"if you are on a decent dose of 8iu+ ed then it renders the loss of the natural night time pulse irrelevent"_ - I didn't mean that once you are on that high a dose that the night time pulse stops anyway, I simply meant that once you are running those kind of dosages then the amount that our bodies produces naturally at night becomes miniscule in comparison whereas it is a proportionally bigger advantage if you are running say 4 or 5 ius - does that make sense?

----------


## marcus300

> No but it just makes logical sense to me that we mimic what our bodies do - if GH worked best in the daytime then wouldn't our bodies produce the biggest pulse then?
> 
> 
> I'm not sure but I think you may have misinterpreted what I meant when I said _"if you are on a decent dose of 8iu+ ed then it renders the loss of the natural night time pulse irrelevent"_ - I didn't mean that once you are on that high a dose that the night time pulse stops anyway, I simply meant that once you are running those kind of dosages then the amount that our bodies produces naturally at night becomes miniscule in comparison whereas it is a proportionally bigger advantage if you are running say 4 or 5 ius - does that make sense?


Wouldnt you be better off keeping the natural high dose at night and running the 8ius split into 2 shots during the day so it only effects the lower pulses of gh rather than the higher one at night?

Its a shame we cant find any artices or studies relating to dose and timming, is this your own theory NS or is it something you have discussed with other members?

----------


## NotSmall

> Wouldnt you be better off keeping the natural high dose at night and running the 8ius split into 2 shots during the day so it only effects the lower pulses of gh rather than the higher one at night?
> 
> Its a shame we cant find any artices or studies relating to dose and timming, is this your own theory NS or is it something you have discussed with other members?


Well this is all hypothetical but _what if_ GH was 10 times as effective at night? Do you want your natural pulse of 1iu or whatever it is in your system or do you want 4ius?

It's certainly not my idea but it just makes sense to me:
- Our bodies produce it at night 
- Physicians prescribe it at night 
- We do most of our growing at night
So it seems to me that the best time to have a big influx of GH is at night.

I do not have any figures as to what our normal daily GH production is (if anyone does please post 'em up) but I theorise that if HRT guys see a tremendous result from running 2iu ed then it is probably around that ballpark so lets assume that HALF of that is in the night time pulse, so 1iu, like I said - if you're only running 2-4ius then sure you wanna preserve the night time pulse but if my theory is correct and GH works alot better at night then personally I'd rather have 4 or 5ius floating around rather than fretting about the 1iu of natural GH that I was losing.

^ Obviously much of the above is theoretical but it's the best way I can describe my thinking.

----------


## marcus300

> Well this is all hypothetical but _what if_ GH was 10 times as effective at night? Do you want your natural pulse of 1iu or whatever it is in your system or do you want 4ius?
> 
> It's certainly not my idea but it just makes sense to me:
> - Our bodies produce it at night 
> - Physicians prescribe it at night 
> - We do most of our growing at night
> So it seems to me that the best time to have a big influx of GH is at night.
> 
> I do not have any figures as to what our normal daily GH production is (if anyone does please post 'em up) but I theorise that if HRT guys see a tremendous result from running 2iu ed then it is probably around that ballpark so lets assume that HALF of that is in the night time pulse, so 1iu, like I said - if you're only running 2-4ius then sure you wanna preserve the night time pulse but if my theory is correct and GH works alot better at night then personally I'd rather have 4 or 5ius floating around rather than fretting about the 1iu of natural GH that I was losing.
> ...


I can see the way your thinking, ive done a couple of checks and from the papers I can find here are some average HGH secretion levels:

At 20 years old we average 500 micrograms/day 
At 40 years old we average 200 micrograms/day 
At 80 years old we average 25 micrograms/day 

so with that conversion it looks like we produce alot more than what your thinking we do, or I should say if your under 40yrs old :Frown: 


How long have you been pinning at night?

----------


## NotSmall

> I can see the way your thinking, ive done a couple of checks and from the papers I can find here are some average HGH secretion levels:
> 
> At 20 years old we average 500 micrograms/day 
> At 40 years old we average 200 micrograms/day 
> At 80 years old we average 25 micrograms/day 
> 
> *so with that conversion it looks like we produce alot more than what your thinking we do*, or I should say if your under 40yrs old
> 
> 
> How long have you been pinning at night?


You sure bud?

I thought 1mg = roughly 3iu

That being the case that table would indicate that we secrete:
1.5 iu at 20 yrs old
0.6 iu at 40 yrs old
0.075 iu at 80 yrs old

Which would kinda support my theory.

----------


## NotSmall

Oh and I've been pinning at night for about 6 months now.

----------


## marcus300

> You sure bud?
> 
> I thought 1mg = roughly 3iu
> 
> That being the case that table would indicate that we secrete:
> 1.5 iu at 20 yrs old
> 0.6 iu at 40 yrs old
> 0.075 iu at 80 yrs old
> 
> Which would kinda support my theory.



what conversion are you using mircogram to iu?

An IU is dependent upon the substance. There is no universal conversion the one I took it from was gh conversion, i will see if i can find it again.

----------


## NotSmall

> what conversion are you using mircogram to iu?


Well I think I'm right in saying that 1mg = 2.7iu so lets just call it 3iu to be generous and make the maths easier.

1mg = 3iu
1mg = 1000mcg
1000mcg = 3iu
1mcg = 0.003iu

----------


## marcus300

> Well I think I'm right in saying that 1mg = 2.7iu so lets just call it 3iu to be generous and make the maths easier.
> 
> 1mg = 3iu
> 1mg = 1000mcg
> 1000mcg = 3iu
> 1mcg = 0.003iu


But isnt the conversion from mircogram to iu of gh different because an IU is dependent upon the substance. There is no universal conversion?

----------


## NotSmall

> But isnt the conversion from mircogram to iu of gh different because an IU is dependent upon the substance. There is no universal conversion?


There is no universal conversion of mg to iu no, it varies from substance to substance like you say but with GH I believe I am correct that 1mg = around 2.7iu.

----------


## marcus300

> There is no universal conversion of mg to iu no, it varies from substance to substance like you say but with GH I believe I am correct that 1mg = around 2.7iu.


Yes thats right 1mg - 2.7ius, but I calculated it from microgram to iu when dealing with gh, ive got that many conversion tables open now its doing my head in lol. 
If we do only produce that small amount daily your theory does look good, ie follow the bodys own pattern and inject more when we are sleeping, it looks like its working on you NS :Smilie:  do you have a time plan on how long your going to run it for?

----------


## Xtralarg

Young adolescents secrete HGH at the rate of about 700 μg/day, while healthy adults secrete HGH at the rate of about 400 μg/day. 

1mg = 3iu
700ug = .7mg
.7mg = 2.1iu This is how much HGH an adolescent secretes in a day
.4mg = 1.2iu This is how much HGH an adult secretes in a day

(Gardner, David G., Shoback, Dolores (2007). Greenspan's Basic and Clinical Endocrinology (8th ed.). New York: McGraw-Hill Medical. pp. 193–201. ISBN 0-07-144011-9.)

----------


## marcus300

> Young adolescents secrete HGH at the rate of about 700 μg/day, while healthy adults secrete HGH at the rate of about 400 μg/day. 
> 
> 1mg = 3iu
> 700ug = .7mg
> .7mg = 2.1iu This is how much HGH an adolescent secretes in a day
> .4mg = 1.2iu This is how much HGH an adult secretes in a day
> 
> (Gardner, David G., Shoback, Dolores (2007). Greenspan's Basic and Clinical Endocrinology (8th ed.). New York: McGraw-Hill Medical. pp. 193201. ISBN 0-07-144011-9.)


Thanks XL,

----------


## Xtralarg

> Thanks XL,


Thanks to everyone who posts on this thread  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## NotSmall

> Yes thats right 1mg - 2.7ius, but I calculated it from microgram to iu when dealing with gh, ive got that many conversion tables open now its doing my head in lol. 
> If we do only produce that small amount daily your theory does look good, ie follow the bodys own pattern and inject more when we are sleeping, it looks like its working on you NS do you have a time plan on how long your going to run it for?


Yeah looking at that table it does kinda seem that there is not a lot of point worrying about disrupting the sacred night time pulse eh? I mean for arguments sake if that pulse was HALF of your total daily GH production then even at 20 yrs old you are only talking about 0.75iu - hardly worth worrying about!

Thanks bud - yeah it seems to be working for me at the moment - I have stocks to continue at 10iu ed for another 5 months but plan to stay on indefinitely really. My plan is to run a couple more heavy AAS cycles then just stay on test & GH forever to maintain, we all know that will never happen, lol, but that's the plan!

----------


## marcus300

> Yeah looking at that table it does kinda seem that there is not a lot of point worrying about disrupting the sacred night time pulse eh? I mean for arguments sake if that pulse was HALF of your total daily GH production then even at 20 yrs old you are only talking about 0.75iu - hardly worth worrying about!
> 
> Thanks bud - yeah it seems to be working for me at the moment - I have stocks to continue at 10iu ed for another 5 months but plan to stay on indefinitely really. My plan is to run a couple more heavy AAS cycles then just stay on test & GH forever to maintain, we all know that will never happen, lol, but that's the plan!


I can really see where your coming from with this and ive done in the past high dose gh along side a burst cycle with amazing results and i was on so much I had to shoot at night 3x daily :Smilie:  and I didnt see or feel any difference than day time shots but let me throw this at you,
So on the flip side on things on your theory and I am thinking out loud here, the body produces gh in pulses and the higher amount during the night while in REM, would there be some reasoning that the body can only utilize so much at once?

----------


## NotSmall

> Young adolescents secrete HGH at the rate of about 700 μg/day, while healthy adults secrete HGH at the rate of about 400 μg/day. 
> 
> 1mg = 3iu
> 700ug = .7mg
> .7mg = 2.1iu This is how much HGH an adolescent secretes in a day
> .4mg = 1.2iu This is how much HGH an adult secretes in a day
> 
> (Gardner, David G., Shoback, Dolores (2007). Greenspan's Basic and Clinical Endocrinology (8th ed.). New York: McGraw-Hill Medical. pp. 193201. ISBN 0-07-144011-9.)


Very similar figures again, using 1mg = 2.7iu makes it adolescent: 1.89iu, adult: 1.08iu so I would still suggest that all the fuss about not disrupting the night time pulse is largely unwarranted.

If it is the case, as I believe, that GH is more effective at night then most users are injecting the bulk of their expensive GH in the daytime when it is less effective in order to preserve a comparatively miniscule amount of natural GH at night.

----------


## NotSmall

> I can really see where your coming from with this and ive done in the past high dose gh along side a burst cycle with amazing results and i was on so much I had to shoot at night 3x daily and I didnt see or feel any difference than day time shots but let me throw this at you,
> So on the flip side on things on your theory and I am thinking out loud here, the body produces gh in pulses and the higher amount during the night while in REM, *would there be some reasoning that the body can only utilize so much at once?*


I am sure that is the case but I am also sure that the body can utilise ALOT more than it produces - how much more though is pretty hard to say.

With the 10ius I am running now it is easily possible that I would get better results from 5 injections of 2iu rather than 5iu at bedtime and 5iu on waking but what with work and wanting to avoid shooting GH while blood sugar is elevated you have to compromise between the ideal and what is actually practical.

----------


## marcus300

> I am sure that is the case but I am also sure that the body can utilise ALOT more than it produces - how much more though is pretty hard to say.
> 
> *With the 10ius I am running now it is easily possible that I would get better results from 5 injections of 2iu rather than 5iu at bedtime and 5iu on waking* but what with work and wanting to avoid shooting GH while blood sugar is elevated you have to compromise between the ideal and what is actually practical.


Because of the half life and the natural bodys rythem of gh I would say more frequent shots when running higher gh would be better, i know this isnt pratical for everybody's lifestyle but defo worth considering.

----------


## Matt

Funny i just found a fvckin study that reported that adults over the age of 40 benefited more from am injections as opposed to before bed time injections, or at least the results were better. However i had that many pages open ive lost it, i shall try and find it again..

I found this link interesting, with many many studies..

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/pubmed

----------


## Hazard

Lots of good info and interesting thoughts here.....

~Haz~

----------


## Xtralarg

> Funny i just found a fvckin study that reported that adults over the age of 40 benefited more from am injections as opposed to before bed time injections, or at least the results were better. However i had that many pages open ive lost it, i shall try and find it again..
> 
> I found this link interesting, with many many studies..
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/pubmed


Thaks for the bedtime reading mate  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## marcus300

> Funny i just found a fvckin study that reported that *adults over the age of 40 benefited more from am injections as opposed to before bed time injections*, or at least the results were better. However i had that many pages open ive lost it, i shall try and find it again..
> 
> I found this link interesting, with many many studies..
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/pubmed


Thats interesting Matt, because a 40yr man produces minimal amounts of gh and you would think any type ofg gh therapy would benefit weather am or pm injection, would be great if you could find it :Smilie:

----------


## Xtralarg

I will try 5 x per day shots and report back with my findings.

----------


## marcus300

> Thaks for the bedtime reading mate


This is more your reading gear http://www.tlady.com/  :Smilie:

----------


## Matt

> This is more your reading gear http://www.tlady.com/


Lmfao, and i clicked on it.....

Nightmares tonight....

----------


## Hazard

Has anyone gone above 12iu's for any note-worthy period of time?

~Haz~

----------


## Hazard

Also..... would anyone like to fund my doing 16iu's/day for 6 months?

~Haz~

----------


## NotSmall

> Because of the half life and the natural bodys rythem of gh I would say more frequent shots when running higher gh would be better, i know this isnt pratical for everybody's lifestyle but defo worth considering.


Ah but then with too many frequent injections we then might be in danger of inhibiting ALL of our natural pulses which may make for a stubborn recovery of the pituitary when we stop!

----------


## marcus300

> Ah but then with too many frequent injections we then might be in danger of inhibiting ALL of our natural pulses which may make for a stubborn recovery of the pituitary when we stop!


I thought the pituitary was very resilient and of your in your 30's it doesn't pulses hardly anything anyway. Do you have any studies on the pituitary shutting down?

----------


## NotSmall

> I thought the pituitary was very resilient and of your in your 30's it doesn't pulses hardly anything anyway. Do you have any studies on the pituitary shutting down?


I don't know mate but I would be surprised if anyone had done a study on the administration of GH on those with healthy pituitaries - especially multiple shots per day so we can only theorise.

To be completely honest though it is not that that would prevent me from splitting my dose into say 5 shots, it is just the sheer inconvenience of it - it isn't really practical for me.

----------


## Matt

> I thought the pituitary was very resilient and of your in your 30's it doesn't pulses hardly anything anyway. Do you have any studies on the pituitary shutting down?


Not sure if this is what your looking for??

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...l/85/2/601#R31

----------


## marcus300

> I don't know mate but I would be surprised if anyone had done a study on the administration of GH on those with healthy pituitaries - especially multiple shots per day so we can only theorise.
> 
> To be completely honest though it is not that that would prevent me from splitting my dose into say 5 shots, it is just the sheer inconvenience of it - it isn't really practical for me.


It would be hard with our lifestyles , but if you was a pro it wouldn't ! There isn't enough studies on this wonderful hormone in relation to bodybuilders,that's like most things and that's why we have to experiment on ourselfs

----------


## marcus300

> Not sure if this is what your looking for??
> 
> http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...l/85/2/601#R31


Thanks I will study that later

----------


## NotSmall

> It would be hard with our lifestyles , but if you was a pro it wouldn't ! There isn't enough studies on this wonderful hormone in relation to bodybuilders,that's like most things and that's why we have to experiment on ourselfs


Well when I win the lottery (and win the fucker I SHALL!) I will not only have the time to do multiple daily injects but also the money to fund such a study - cos until then noone else is going to pay the £1,000s it costs to fund a study on how us meatheads can get massive... but until that day, like you say, we will just have to keep kicking around ideas and doing our own experiments on ourselves!

----------


## Hazard

I have access to a pro i believe..... well..... my friend who is doing a competition has been in contact with a pro and also an amateur thats going for his pro card. They both advise him on his cycles.....

I'll have him ask them their thoughts on this..... just for shits and giggles.....

~Haz~

----------


## NotSmall

> Not sure if this is what your looking for??
> 
> http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...l/85/2/601#R31


To me that seems to confirm that injected GH will suppress the secretion of natural GH in the short term but not whether pituitary shut down will occur in the long term - if I'm reading it correctly!

----------


## BJJ

Sorry if I ask something different now but I would like to know from you guys, with 10 iu ed of somatropin would be better to ingest 50 or 100 mcg of T4 before bed time?

I am still waiting my blood work response on 50 mcg ed.

----------


## Matt

> To me that seems to confirm that injected GH will suppress the secretion of natural GH in the short term but not whether pituitary shut down will occur in the long term - if I'm reading it correctly!


Although i find these things very complicated i think your right, my understanding is that it also says that it wont start to supress your natural secretion until at least 4 hours post injection. If im right then it may back up your idea of bed time injections..

My theory from reading this is, you inject just before going to sleep, 1/2 hours later your body secrets is natural gh then 4/6 hours later your injected gh kicks in, although i may be reading this wrong...

----------


## Matt

> I have access to a pro i believe..... well..... my friend who is doing a competition has been in contact with a pro and also an amateur thats going for his pro card. They both advise him on his cycles.....
> 
> I'll have him ask them their thoughts on this..... just for shits and giggles.....
> 
> ~Haz~


It would be interesting to have their take on it imo, just for more views...

----------


## NotSmall

> Although i find these things very complicated i think your right, my understanding is that it also says that it wont start to supress your natural secretion until at least 4 hours post injection. If im right then it may back up your idea of bed time injections..
> 
> My theory from reading this is, you inject just before going to sleep, 1/2 hours later your body secrets is natural gh then 4/6 hours later your injected gh kicks in, although i may be reading this wrong...


Yeah I remember that Maxititer posted a study a while back that seemed to demonstrate the same thing, the study he posted seemed to suggest that the IGF-1 spike following the injection of GH that is actually what affects the feedback loop actually occurs some hours after the injection so the bedtime injection would not suppress the night time pulse, I mentioned this in post #43 in this thread but couldn't find the study or I would have posted it here. 
At the time there followed some discussion that frankly was over my head where some people disagreed with Max's interpretation so my bedtime injection theory is based more on the fact that this revered night time pulse that everyone is so scared of losing is actually miniscule in comparison to the amounts we are injecting anyway - if my expensive 5iu injection is more effective at night than in the day then I am not going to worry about the measly 0.5iu of free GH I am going to lose out on by injecting it then!

----------


## babyface770

Hey guys I just wanted to ask about skipping a shot , cause my alarm didn't do a good job at waking me up today and I woke up at around 8 AM , anyways I took the shot but what would be best if I skipped a shot next time ? 

Do I take it when I remember or just skip it ?

----------


## Xtralarg

> Hey guys I just wanted to ask about skipping a shot , cause my alarm didn't do a good job at waking me up today and I woke up at around 8 AM , anyways I took the shot but what would be best if I skipped a shot next time ? 
> 
> Do I take it when I remember or just skip it ?


Take it when you remember but not if your blood sugar is elevated or will be within an hour or so due to food/fliud intake, if that is the case then wait until it is back to normal then shoot.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Sorry if I ask something different now but I would like to know from you guys, with 10 iu ed of somatropin would be better to ingest 50 or 100 mcg of T4 before bed time?
> 
> I am still waiting my blood work response on 50 mcg ed.


I believe it needs to be 100mcg ed and is best taken before bedtime. I got this info from RedBaron, im not sure if there are studies to back this up. It is the protocol that I use and has worked well for me. I recently had my bloods done and my T4 levels were normal.

----------


## babyface770

> Take it when you remember but not if your blood sugar is elevated or will be within an hour or so due to food/fliud intake, if that is the case then wait until it is back to normal then shoot.



Thanks

Sadly I had to it minutes after my breakfast and while driving to work I remembered someone on this thread saying they take it 30 min after breakfast but it was too late anyways  :Frown: 

Anyways I learnt a lesson and I felt so sides at 4IU maybe cause of the time , so its time to take it up a notch but the 2 split timings are making me feel sad cause I can't inject at the proper time

----------


## Xtralarg

> Thanks
> 
> Sadly I had to it minutes after my breakfast and while driving to work I remembered someone on this thread saying they take it 30 min after breakfast but it was too late anyways 
> 
> Anyways I learnt a lesson and I felt so sides at 4IU maybe cause of the time , so its time to take it up a notch but the 2 split timings are making me feel sad cause I can't inject at the proper time


Well dont worry about that one single shot its no big deal.

As we are all discussing on this thread it seems that there is no definite 'proper time' why dont you try the 2nd shot before bedtime like notsmall does, it works well for him

----------


## BJJ

> Hey guys I just wanted to ask about skipping a shot , cause my alarm didn't do a good job at waking me up today and I woke up at around 8 AM , anyways I took the shot but what would be best if I skipped a shot next time ? 
> 
> Do I take it when I remember or just skip it ?


What a coincidence!!!
It happened to me the same thing this morning and I missed 5 iu.
So, I am going to inject 5 iu 1 hour after lunch and 5 iu before bed time with 100 mcg of T4.
Let's see if I feel any difference.




> I believe it needs to be 100mcg ed and is best taken before bedtime. I got this info from RedBaron, im not sure if there are studies to back this up. It is the protocol that I use and has worked well for me. I recently had my bloods done and my T4 levels were normal.


Thanks for your suggestion.

----------


## BJJ

I am noticing many people look up in this thread but only a few of them are providing info to share.
We need more people...

----------


## babyface770

Thanks Xlarge and bjj 

Well I won't be hitting tomorrow cause I'm off on friday .. So ill hit on friday night before I sleep and saturday dawn ( 3 am)

I'm sending this through my blackberry but when I get home ill use excel to make a chart hopefully you guys will approve and I can have a peace of mind


Again thank you very much for everything much appreciated !!

----------


## myturn

i bought some thanktropin and it is junk i took 30 iu in 1 week to start to see how good it was no sides at all so save your money for the real stuff i would like to find some jintropin aq liquid pen any one ever try this?

----------


## babyface770

Can the timing of my shot be the reason I didn't feel any sides ?


The reason I'm asking if that I'm really paranoid that my GH is not decent so basically I'm going with "guilty until proven innocent"  :Stick Out Tongue:  and damn it I paid soo much for the pens

----------


## Xtralarg

> i bought some thanktropin and it is junk i took 30 iu in 1 week to start to see how good it was no sides at all so save your money for the real stuff i would like to find some jintropin aq liquid pen any one ever try this?


Not everyone experiences sides and even if you do it can take longer than a week. Thanktropin if fine, you may have fake which if that is the case you don not in fact have thanktropin!

----------


## BJJ

XL, I was wondering that since I started this new HGH brand (yellow tops ex UK) I started to feel some sorrow in both my elbows.

My bjj training and weight lifting training is fine so could it be related to HGH?
Could that be a side?

----------


## Xtralarg

> Can the timing of my shot be the reason I didn't feel any sides ?
> 
> 
> The reason I'm asking if that I'm really paranoid that my GH is not decent so basically I'm going with "guilty until proven innocent"  and damn it I paid soo much for the pens


You have already experienced sides from the pens so therefore I would'nt question if they are real or not, you have probably built up a tolerance thats all. In my experience the timing of the shot has not effected the sides.

----------


## Matt

After much thought and deliberation I've decided Monday will be my start date for hgh, I've been looking at it for the past few weeks and i cant take it anymore...

As I've said before i shall run it for 2 months before adding aas...

----------


## Chev

> I am noticing many people look up in this thread but only a few of them are providing info to share.
> We need more people...


Some of us are newbs to the HGH world, i just started mine this week. (bluetops @ 2 UI's) So its more of a great learning page for some.  :1laugh:

----------


## Xtralarg

> After much thought and deliberation I've decided Monday will be my start date for hgh, I've been looking at it for the past few weeks and i cant take it anymore...
> 
> As I've said before i shall run it for 2 months before adding aas...


Keep us posted mate, have you ever run it before?

----------


## Xtralarg

> Some of us are newbs to the HGH world, i just started mine this week. (bluetops @ 2 UI's) So its more of a great learning page for some.


Thanks for posting

Please join in mate, everybody can contribute to this thread and share their thoughts and experiences. How are you finding the blues? Any sides yet?

----------


## NotSmall

> After much thought and deliberation I've decided Monday will be my start date for hgh, I've been looking at it for the past few weeks and i cant take it anymore...
> 
> As I've said before i shall run it for 2 months before adding aas...


Have you had it in your possession for some time?

If so how ON EARTH did you resist starting it? - Once I get anything in the post it's in my bloodstream as soon as I can tear the package open with my teeth! lol

So how are you going to run it...?

----------


## Xtralarg

> XL, I was wondering that since I started this new HGH brand (yellow tops ex UK) I started to feel some sorrow in both my elbows.
> 
> My bjj training and weight lifting training is fine so could it be related to HGH?
> Could that be a side?


Yes it could be fluid retention, I have been having trouble with my shoulders recently when I increased my dose. If it was some form of injury then I doubt it would hit both elbows at the same time, do you agree?

----------


## BJJ

Either FT4 and FT3 are going down in spite of 50 mcg ed of T4 ingested. I am going to bump to 100 mcg ed from today.

TSH instead, almost doubled; even though it came only back to where it was 
before the cycle.

Insulin and glycemia are fine.

Even this other HGH brand is real, now I need a check for the last one I am using since a few days.
Saturday morning, a new blood work with IGF-1 also.

Any comments appreciated.



*BLOOD, URINE, FAECES & SPERM ANALYSES:*
__________________________________________________ _________________Day *38*_______________Day *89 p12*__________Day *93 p16*__________Day *101 p24*

*BLOOD*
ERYTHROCYTES: *5,08* mil/mmc [4 - 5,5]______________________________________*4,65*_________________*5,33*____________________________________*5,08*
LEUCOCYTES: *7,6* mila/mmc [4 - 9]__________________________________________*14,4*_________________*7,5*_____________________________________*9,3*
- NE: *4,2* / *55,9* % [2 - 6 / 37 - 80]
- LY: *2,5* / *35* % [0,6 - 36 / 10 - 50]
- MO: *0,7* / *8,7* % [0 - 0,9 / 0 - 12]
- EO: *0,3* / *2,5* % [0 - 7 / 0 - 7]
- BA: *0* / *0,6* % [0 - 0,2 / 0 - 2,5]
HEMOGLOBIN: *15,1* gr/dl [14 - 18]___________________________________________*13,2*_________________*13,7*____________________________________*13,1*
HEMATOCRIT: *44,2* % [42 - 52]_____________________________________________*39,8*_________________*41,5*____________________________________*39,8*
MCV: *87* femtol [82 - 98]__________________________________________________*85,6*_________________*77,9*____________________________________*78,3*
MCH: *29,7* picogr. [27 - 31]________________________________________________*28,4*_________________*25,7*____________________________________*25,8*
MCHC: *34,2* gr/dl [32 - 36]_________________________________________________*33,2*_________________*33*_____________________________________*32,9*
RDW: *13,7* % [11,6 - 16]__________________________________________________ _____________________*16,2*
GRAN-NEUTROPHILS: *65,7* % [37 -80]________________________________________*76,4*_________________*43,2*____________________________________*51,7*
GRAN-EOSINOPHILS: *2,8* % [0,0 - 7]_________________________________________*0,5*__________________*1,6*_____________________________________*1,3*
GRAN-BASOPHILS: *0,9* % [0,0 - 2,5]_________________________________________*0,8*__________________*0,3*_____________________________________*1*
LYMPHOCYTES: *23,4* % [10 - 50]____________________________________________*16*__________________*48*______________________________________*36,5*
MONOCYTES: *7,2* % [0,0 - 12]______________________________________________*6,3*__________________*6,9*_____________________________________*9,5*
PLATELETS: *150000* /mmc [150000 - 400000]_________________________________*362000*______________*270000*_________________________________*148000*
PCT: *0,13* % [0,1 - 1]
MPV: *7,5* fl [5 - 10]
PDW: *17,5* % [12 - 18]

*HEART, KIDNEYS, LIVER, PANCREAS & PROSTATE*
GLYCEMIA (basal): *91* mg/dl [70 - 110]__________________________________________________ _________*92*______________________________________*83*

QUICK PROTHROMBIN TIME: *13,7* s
PROTHROMBIN ACTIVITY: *71* % [70-130]
INR: *1,2*
APTT: *28* s
FIBRINOGEN: *190* mg/dl [180 - 350]
HOMOCYSTEINE: *11* mcmoli/l [6 - 15]
MYOGLOBIN: *27* ng/ml [10 - 46]

AZOTEMIA: *62* mg/dl [15-40]______________________________________________*46*____________________*73*
CREATININE: *1,1* mg/dl [0,8 - 1,3]__________________________________________*1,2*___________________*1,1*
HYPERURICEMIA: *6* mg/dl [3,5 - 7,2]

CHOLESTEROL TTL: *156* mg/dl [140 - 220]___________________________________*142*___________________*173*
CHOLESTEROL VLDL: *35* mg/dl [20 - 40]
CHOLESTEROL LDL: *103* mg/dl [< 150]_______________________________________*130*
CHOLESTEROL HDL: *35* mg/dl [> 40]_________________________________________*12*___________________*22*
INDEX RISK HDL: *4,5* [till 5]________________________________________________*11,8*__________________*7,9*
APO A1: *190* mg/dl [115 - 220]
APO B: *79* mg/dl [55 - 125]
RATIO B/A1 APO: *0,41* [0,35 - 1]
TRIGLYCERIDES: *90* mg/dl [< 150]

GAMMA (YGT): *32* u/ltr [15 - 85]___________________________________________*27*___________________*39*
ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE: *96* u/ltr [50 - 136]_________________________________*57*___________________*79*
BILIRUBIN TTL: *1* mg/dl [0,2-1]__________________________________________________ ____________________________________*1,16*
BILIRUBIN DIRECT: *0,25* mg/dl [0,05 - 0,3]__________________________________________________ __________________________*0,33*
BILIRUBIN INDIRECT: *0,67* mg/dl [till 0,7]__________________________________________________ ____________________________*0,83*
TRANSAMINASE GOT/AST: *26* u/ltr [15 - 37]__________________________________*63*
TRANSAMINASE GPT/ALT: *62* u/ltr [30 - 65]__________________________________*104*
FERRITIN: *125* ng/ml [24 - 336]

LIPASE: *324* u/ltr [114 - 284]______________________________________________*234*__________________*218*
AMYLASE: *69* u/ltr [25 - 115]______________________________________________*66*___________________*75*

LDH: *170* u/ltr [100 - 190]
CPK MB: *230* u/ltr [35 - 232]
CK NAK: *160* u/l [till 167]
PROTIDES TTL: *7,5* gr/dl [6,4 - 8,2]
ALBUMIN: *60* % [51 - 63,3]
ALFA 1: *3* % [2,2 - 4,3]
ALFA 2: *10* % [9,5 - 14]
BETA: *11* % [10-14,5]
GAMMA: *19* % [12 - 20]
A/G RATIO: *1,45* [1,0 - 1,7]

PSA: *0,6* ng/ml [till 4]__________________________________________________ ___*1,23*________________*0,61*
PSA FREE: *0,23*
PSA FREE/TTL: *0,38* [>0,15]
PAP: *1,3* ng/ml [till 3,5]__________________________________________________ _*1,5*

IGG: *1455* mg/dl [681 - 1648]
IGA: *309* mg/dl [87 - 474]
IGD: *55* u/ml [till 100]
IGM: *101* mg/dl [48 - 312]
IGE (prist): *39,07* iu/ml [1,31 - 165,3]

*HORMONAL*
GASTRIN: *32* pg/ml [28-125]
MELATONIN: *55* pg/ml [20 - 85]
C-PEPTIDE: *1,3* ng/ml [0,78 – 1,89]
INSULIN: *3,37* micru/ml [1,9 - 23]__________________________________________________ _____________*3,55*____________________________________*2,08*
GLUCAGON: *56* pg/ml [40-130]
ACTH: *21* pg/dl [till 50]
CORTISOL: *16,64* mcg/dl [8,7 - 22,4]_________________________________________*12,45*______________*19,89*___________________________________*17,4*
FT3: *3,47* pg/ml [2,2 - 4,7]_________________________________________________*3,95*________________*4,03*____________________________________*2,83*
FT4: *1,27* ng/dl [0,8 - 2]__________________________________________________ _*1,62*_______________*1,4*_____________________________________*1,33*
MSH: *10,5* pmol/l [7,9 - 14,4]
HTG: *9,65* ng/ml [0,0 - 35]
TBG: *21* mcg/ml [15 - 32]
TSH: *4,79* micru/ml [0,34 - 5,6]_____________________________________________*2,48*________________*2,66*____________________________________*4,37*
FSH: *4,19* miu/ml [1,27 - 19,26]_____________________________________________*0,55*_____________________________________*0,72*
LH: *3,88* miu/ml [1,24 - 8,62]_______________________________________________*0,15*_____________________________________*2,58*
PREGNENOLONE: *161* ng/ml [10 - 230]
ANDROSTENEDIONE: *1,89* ng/ml [0,3 - 3,1]
ALDOSTERONE: *155* pg/ml [10 - 160]
DHEA: *7,9* ng/ml [2,5 - 9,5]
DHEAS: *233* mcg/dl [106 - 464]
DHT: *625* pg/ml [250 - 990]________________________________________________*1250*_____________________________________*300*
TESTOSTERONE TTL: *3,1* ng/ml [1,75 - 7,81]_________________________________*44,7*_________________*0,48*_________________*1,61*________________*4,84*
TESTOSTERONE FREE: *15* pg/ml [8 - 47]_____________________________________*219,68*____________________________________*5,9*
SHBG: *37* nmoli/l [13 - 71]_________________________________________________*6*_________________________________________*24,8*
ESTRONE: *48* pg/ml [40 - 60]
ESTRADIOL 17-BETA: *34* pg/ml [<20 - 47]____________________________________*150*_________________*27*
ESTRIOL: *6* pg/ml [4,7 - 7,1]
PROGESTERONE: *0,98* ng/ml [0,14 - 2,06]____________________________________*1,41*
PRL: *3,4* ng/ml [2,64 - 13,13]______________________________________________*15,12*________________*0,62*_________________*1*
IGF-1: *135* ng/ml [96 - 424]_______________________________________________*159*__________________*238*
HGH: *0,3* ng/ml [0,0 - 10]__________________________________________________ ____________________*11,1*____________________________________*10,5*

----------


## BJJ

> Yes it could be fluid retention, I have been having trouble with my shoulders recently when I increased my dose. If it was some form of injury then I doubt it would hit both elbows at the same time, do you agree?


Yes I do, intelligent consideration.

I did not think about that by myself...  :Tear:

----------


## Matt

> Have you had it in your possession for some time?
> 
> If so how ON EARTH did you resist starting it? - Once I get anything in the post it's in my bloodstream as soon as I can tear the package open with my teeth! lol
> 
> So how are you going to run it...?


Hahaha, i know what you mean...

Yeah ive had it a few weeks but only got 800ius, (glotropin)...

Im going to start it at 2ius 5/2 for 3 weeks then 4ius for another 3 weeks, 6ius for 3 weeks and then finish on 8ius. I could do with running the 8ius for at least 6 months.....

First time on hgh so im expecting some good results, i will be adding test and tren after 2 months but im seriously considering cruising from then on...

----------


## Xtralarg

> Either FT4 and FT3 are going down in spite of 50 mcg ed of T4 ingested. I am going to bump to 100 mcg ed from today.
> 
> TSH instead, almost doubled; even though it came only back to where it was 
> before the cycle.
> 
> Insulin and glycemia are fine.
> 
> Even this other HGH brand is real, now I need a check for the last one I am using since a few days.
> Saturday morning, a new blood work with IGF-1 also.
> ...



I posted this on your thread but will repeat it here for others to read.

Elivated TSH leves are expected if FT3 FT4 levels are low.


When it functions properly the thyroid is part of a feedback loop with your pituitary gland. First, the pituitary senses the level of thyroid hormone that the thyroid has released into the bloodstream then pituitary then releases TSH that stimulates the thyroid to release more thyroid hormone. When the thyroid does not produce enough thyroid hormone the pituitary detects this reduction in thyroid hormone and it moves into action. The pituitary then makes more TSH to help trigger the thyroid to produce more thyroid hormone, this is the pituitary's effort to return the system to "normal" and normalize thyroid function. Therefore a TSH that is higher than normal suggests a thyroid that is underactive and not doing its job of producing thyroid hormone for whatever reason, ilness, stress, obstruction e.g. recombinant Growth Hormone . 

I would increase your T4 to 100mcg ed from 50mcg ed.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Hahaha, i know what you mean...
> 
> Yeah ive had it a few weeks but only got 800ius, (glotropin)...
> 
> Im going to start it at 2ius 5/2 for 3 weeks then 4ius for another 3 weeks, 6ius for 3 weeks and then finish on 8ius. I could do with running the 8ius for at least 6 months.....
> 
> First time on hgh so im expecting some good results, i will be adding test and tren after 2 months but im seriously considering cruising from then on...


Have you decided what time of day you're going to be having the gh?

----------


## NotSmall

> Hahaha, i know what you mean...
> 
> Yeah ive had it a few weeks but only got 800ius, (glotropin)...
> 
> Im going to start it at 2ius 5/2 for 3 weeks then 4ius for another 3 weeks, 6ius for 3 weeks and then finish on 8ius. I could do with running the 8ius for at least 6 months.....
> 
> First time on hgh so im expecting some good results, i will be adding test and tren after 2 months but im seriously considering cruising from then on...


lol I got some MT II for the first time on monday, everyone says to shoot it at bedtime but there was NO WAY I was waiting that long - it was like 4 hours away! Ha ha haaa!

Sounds good mate - personally I would ramp up quicker but then that will burn through your GH quicker too!

I haven't PCT'd for about 2 yrs I don't think - have no intention of doing so either - apart from breeding (which I have NO intention of doing) I cannot think of a reason to come off - I am pretty sure that healthwise it is better to run a low dose of test rather than putting yourself through the hormonal rollercoaster and barrage of drugs that PCT involves!

----------


## Xtralarg

> lol I got some MT II for the first time on monday


Poser  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## Chev

> Thanks for posting
> 
> Please join in mate, everybody can contribute to this thread and share their thoughts and experiences. How are you finding the blues? Any sides yet?


The only side im noticing is my eye is twitching alot. lol!! Ive never heard of it happening to anyone else.... 

Other than that so far so good, im looking forward to training and eating...its what the game is all about. 

Stats Age 31
6' 4"
241 pounds
BF around 13%

Ive taking some pics and keeping a small personal log. Will share with the class from month to month...

This site has been the best with all the AAS knowledge, looking forward to the HGH knowledge to come.

----------


## NotSmall

> Poser


 :AaGreen22:

----------


## Xtralarg

> The only side im noticing is my eye is twitching alot. lol!! Ive never heard of it happening to anyone else.... 
> 
> Other than that so far so good, im looking forward to training and eating...its what the game is all about. 
> 
> Stats Age 31
> 6' 4"
> 241 pounds
> BF around 13%
> 
> ...



Good stats and a cracking base to build on, are you running aas along side?

----------


## BJJ

> I posted this on your thread but will repeat it here for others to read.
> 
> Elivated TSH leves are expected if FT3 FT4 levels are low.
> 
> 
> When it functions properly the thyroid is part of a feedback loop with your pituitary gland. First, the pituitary senses the level of thyroid hormone that the thyroid has released into the bloodstream then pituitary then releases TSH that stimulates the thyroid to release more thyroid hormone. When the thyroid does not produce enough thyroid hormone the pituitary detects this reduction in thyroid hormone and it moves into action. The pituitary then makes more TSH to help trigger the thyroid to produce more thyroid hormone, this is the pituitary's effort to return the system to "normal" and normalize thyroid function. Therefore a TSH that is higher than normal suggests a thyroid that is underactive and not doing its job of producing thyroid hormone for whatever reason, ilness, stress, obstruction e.g. recombinant Growth Hormone . 
> 
> I would increase your T4 to 100mcg ed from 50mcg ed.


Thank you

----------


## Chev

> Good stats and a cracking base to build on, are you running aas along side?


Yes, im cruising on 250 EW of C, and ill probably do a blast (4-6 week cycle of tren @ 525 EW) Give myself a break and in late winter (but still cruising) hit a bulker for 12-14 weeks. Im hoping by November ill have some new cells to blow up. Ill try ramp up the hgh as well as i go. Im looking forward to cycling with the Gh!

----------


## paddy155

Could someone explain to me the difference's between glotropin,blue tops,green tops and ********** ?
Thanks

----------


## marcus300

> lol I got some MT II for the first time on monday, everyone says to shoot it at bedtime but there was NO WAY I was waiting that long - it was like 4 hours away! Ha ha haaa!
> 
> Sounds good mate - personally I would ramp up quicker but then that will burn through your GH quicker too!
> 
> I haven't PCT'd for about 2 yrs I don't think - have no intention of doing so either - apart from breeding (which I have NO intention of doing) I cannot think of a reason to come off - I am pretty sure that healthwise it is better to run a low dose of test rather than putting yourself through the hormonal rollercoaster and barrage of drugs that PCT involves!


Would you say GH as made the biggest difference to your body or AAS?

----------


## Matt

> Have you decided what time of day you're going to be having the gh?


For now im going to stick with early morning, 6am.

When it comes to splitting the dose im still unsure, i will keep the 6am shot but cant make my mind up between early pm or bed time for the second shot....

----------


## NotSmall

> Would you say GH as made the biggest difference to your body or AAS?


So far - AAS - by a mile, BUT my plan going forward is to use GH more and AAS less - apart from bringing on a few lagging bodyparts (chest & bis) I really do not need or want to add much more muscle mass - I weigh just over 260lbs now - any heavier and life will just become too hard work.

----------


## Matt

> lol I got some MT II for the first time on monday, everyone says to shoot it at bedtime but there was NO WAY I was waiting that long - it was like 4 hours away! Ha ha haaa!
> 
> Sounds good mate - personally I would ramp up quicker but then that will burn through your GH quicker too!
> 
> I haven't PCT'd for about 2 yrs I don't think - have no intention of doing so either - apart from breeding (which I have NO intention of doing) I cannot think of a reason to come off - I am pretty sure that healthwise it is better to run a low dose of test rather than putting yourself through the hormonal rollercoaster and barrage of drugs that PCT involves!


What dose do you cruise bro???

----------


## marcus300

> So far - AAS - by a mile, BUT my plan going forward is to use GH more and AAS less - apart from bringing on a few lagging bodyparts (chest & bis) I really do not need or want to add much more muscle mass - I weigh just over 260lbs now - any heavier and life will just become too hard work.


I remember years back when we were very active on here and other forums seeing pictures of yourself and from the recent pics ive seen of you it looks like a complete different person, its a remarkable transformation NS, full credit to you for your hardwork in all the areas of bodybuilding.

Ive experimented in many ways over the years and for me gh totally transformed me. No matter how Ive ever administrated gh ive always responded great to it, Ive also messed around with high short bursts of gh but I can clearly state that for me around the 6-10 months mark works great when coupled with a couple of nice burst cycles along the way :Smilie: . 

When I first started to do my research on gh many years ago I started with how the natural gh interacts with our bodies and our hormonal system, from this I worked out my own ideas and then I researched what other BB's were doing and went from there. Years ago it was common pratise to not inject around the night time due to our own bodies highest pulse, but I can clearly see were your coming from with your night time injections, ive done them in the past and i will have to be honest i didnt see much of a difference except in my sleep :Smilie:  but with knowing how our own bodies use gh it does make sense especially with the small amount we do produce if your over 30,40yrs old  :Frown: .

Trouble is, there isnt any studies ive seen which contain bodybuilder,AAS and gh which is a shame, so experiemnting with our own bodies looks the way forward, but overall gh does give some class to the muscles :Smilie:  fuk me i just noticed how much i just waffled on lol

----------


## NotSmall

> What dose do you cruise bro???


Well when I come off a "cycle" I drop everything else and initially keep my test dose the same for a week or two then I slowly reduce it week by week down to about 350mg a week where I stay until I "cycle" again.

----------


## NotSmall

> I remember years back when we were very active on here and other forums seeing pictures of yourself and from the recent pics ive seen of you it looks like a complete different person, its a remarkable transformation NS, full credit to you for your hardwork in all the areas of bodybuilding.
> 
> Ive experimented in many ways over the years and for me gh totally transformed me. No matter how Ive ever administrated gh ive always responded great to it, Ive also messed around with high short bursts of gh but I can clearly state that for me around the 6-10 months mark works great when coupled with a couple of nice burst cycles along the way. 
> 
> When I first started to do my research on gh many years ago I started with how the natural gh interacts with our bodies and our hormonal system, from this I worked out my own ideas and then I researched what other BB's were doing and went from there. Years ago it was common pratise to not inject around the night time due to our own bodies highest pulse, but I can clearly see were your coming from with your night time injections, ive done them in the past and i will have to be honest i didnt see much of a difference except in my sleep but with knowing how our own bodies use gh it does make sense especially with the small amount we do produce if your over 30,40yrs old .
> 
> Trouble is, there isnt any studies ive seen which contain bodybuilder,AAS and gh which is a shame, so experiemnting with our own bodies looks the way forward, but overall gh does give some class to the muscles fuk me i just noticed how much i just waffled on lol


Thankyou mate - it's been a long hard journey - even longer than you think maybe because those pics of me back in the day looking all weak and tubby were actually me already well into my journey - I used to be over 23st (322lbs) in a very bad (morbidly obese) way, so those pics were me after I had already lost the vast majority of the flubber, when it actually dawned on me that it didn't have to just be about not being fat - I could actually now start working towards looking GOOD!

At the time me and my mates were well into WWF/WWE and I remember thinking "Now I'm not superfat any more I wonder if I could look as good as some of these guys" - it seemed a long long way off but that was kinda my goal, about 5 yrs later (last yr) I was leaving a subway shop and two young lads were blocking the way, they saw me coming and moved out of the way politely then as I walked off I heard one say to the other "Fuck me, the size of him - he looks like a fuckin wrestler" - little did the little scrote know that he just made my fuckin day! lol

Well I may change my tune on the GH/AAS thing soon as I am now around the 6 month mark of 10iu ed, the longest I have run GH for before I think is about 6 months but not with such a consistantly high dose so I am now breaking new ground for me and I guess this is when I should start seeing the real benefits, I am already stocked up with another 5 months worth and in july will be running a 4 week blast with slin, PEG MGF, tren & winstrol - exciting times in NotSmallWorld!

I don't think we are likely to see any studies into AAS, GH & bodybuilders either as I imagine they cost ALOT of money and at the end of the day who is going to pay for it? - In one sense that is a shame but in another sense its all part of the fun working out what works and theorising amongst ourselves over what works best - if we already had all those answers then what the hell would we all chat about on here!

----------


## some_gurl

hello,
i want to get my father on HGH. not to do w bb but more for overall benefits. he has some hip/back problems from sports and i thought this would help to heal etc.
do you think this is a good pick for him. 
and how would you dose for a maintenance sort of thing, not mass building etc.
i read on the hgh profile on this site that best benefits are seen taking it one day and off for one. is it best to take 2x a day or just in the AM 
and a low dose would suffice for his goal set?
thanks for the imput!

----------


## BJJ

> hello,
> i want to get my father on HGH. not to do w bb but more for overall benefits. he has some hip/back problems from sports and i thought this would help to heal etc.
> do you think this is a good pick for him. 
> and how would you dose for a maintenance sort of thing, not mass building etc.
> i read on the hgh profile on this site that best benefits are seen taking it one day and off for one. is it best to take 2x a day or just in the AM 
> and a low dose would suffice for his goal set?
> thanks for the imput!


To be helped you should write down your father's stats.
But yes, he might benefit from somatropin.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Could someone explain to me the difference's between glotropin,blue tops,green tops and ********** ?
> Thanks


As long as they are all HGH and not fake then there should'nt be much difference at all.

----------


## Xtralarg

> For now im going to stick with early morning, 6am.
> 
> When it comes to splitting the dose im still unsure, i will keep the 6am shot but cant make my mind up between early pm or bed time for the second shot....


Try both and see if you notice any difference.

----------


## BJJ

I did not sleep very well tonight and I do not know if related to the injection of 5 iu took yesterday @ 23:45 pm along with 100 mcg of T4.

----------


## Xtralarg

> I did not sleep very well tonight and I do not know if related to the injection of 5 iu took yesterday @ 23:45 pm along with 100 mcg of T4.


Its not the late HGH shot its the 100mcg of T4, try having it a little earlier if it affects you like that.

----------


## BJJ

> Its not the late HGH shot its the 100mcg of T4, try having it a little earlier if it affects you like that.


As usual thanks for the advice.

Little earlier but always on an empty stomach, right?

----------


## BJJ

This thread is becoming popular...

*70 (1 members and 69 guests)*

----------


## Xtralarg

> As usual thanks for the advice.
> 
> Little earlier but always on an empty stomach, right?


You're very welcome my friend.

Yes thats correct, empty stomach, if thats possible with us BB's!?! I try to have mine between my penultimate and last meal, this gives me approx 70 mins either side. Please rmember its very important to have your T4 at the same time ed.

----------


## Xtralarg

> This thread is becoming popular...
> 
> *70 (1 members and 69 guests)*


A message to the guests.

Join the site and join in the discussion  :7up:

----------


## myturn

how about jintropin aq liquid pen is it as good as they say any one try humatropin and jintropin aq liquid if so which is better

----------


## Xtralarg

> how about jintropin aq liquid pen is it as good as they say any one try humatropin and jintropin aq liquid if so which is better


AQ pens are supposed to be better than powder because they have never been subjected to the freeze-drying lyophilization process which is known to damage HGH potency. 

They are convienent and easy to use but for me they price outweighs the benefits, I would rather pay less, reconstitute and get a lot more!

Cant comment on which brand is better as I have only used Jin.

----------


## Matt

Just a small point, alot of these studies are on men/women 40+ who are in no way bbers. However it is almost always claimed that they experience lean muscle gains, despite the fact that they are running hgh at 1/4ius ed....

----------


## hilly2010

great thread here guys, altho im new here and really only lurk notsmall knows me from over on ukiron.

I have ran gh only this year during my contest pre and now i am running it during pct. during prep i ran it at 4iu pre bed and this seemed to work a treat. i was advised to do this by the guy who helped me prep from the usa and helps quite a few top level guys. i came in very good condition IMO and i believe growth played a major part in this.

Now during pct i am running the same brand but decided to run it in the am injected IM 10 mins pre cardio. this is 5 on 2 off. on off days i am running ghrp6 at 150mcg x 3 per day.

Im sat here now with tingles in my left shoulder and thats were i did the jab this am. however i had the same tingles when shooting pre bed. to be honest im not noticing any difference.

I have enough to run for another 6 weeks so i will continue in the am for another 2 weeks then switch to pre bed IM for 4 weeks and see if i notice any difference. so far it seems not. alot of guys on uk-muscle were i post mainly have tried split doses/pre bed and in the am and no1 seems to notice much difference.

below is a good study tho showing eod shots or 3 x weekly which i intend to run funds allowing when i start bulking after pct

STUDY, demonstrating positive body composition changes in highly trained athletes w/ 2g/kg per day protein intake & 8iu of GH 3x per week (EOD), w/ no other compounds.

NOTE: Protropin 1mg = 3iu or 1iu = 333mcg
EOD dose (3x per week) in the following study: 2.67mg or 8iu
Weekly total dose = 8mg or 24iu

Summary results: 
FFW = fat free Weight
FW = fat Weight





Body composition response to exogenous GH during training in highly conditioned adults, D. M. Crist, J Appl Physiol 65: 579-584, 1988

Intro:

The effects of biosynthetic methionyl-human growth hormone (met-hGH) on body composition and endogenous secretion of growth hormone (GH) and insulin -like growth factor I (IGF-I) were studied in eight well-trained exercising adults between 22 and 33 yr of age for 6 weeks.


Dosing & Administration:

The met-hGH (experimental) treatment consisted of 8.0 mg (2 U/mg) per week of methGH (Protropin; Genentech, San Francisco, CA), which was divided into three doses (2.67 mg/dose) and delivered on alternate days (3 days/wk) in 0.5 ml of bacteriostatic diluent. Because of differences in the body weights of the subjects, the relative dose range varied between 0.03 and 0.05 mg/kg per injection. Injections were given between 0800 and 1500, and their delivery was rotated among four to six sites throughout the study period. Treatments were administered on a double-blind basis with neither the experimental subject nor the person administering the injections knowing which treatment was being delivered. The total weekly dose of met-hGH used in this study (8.0 mg) was considered supraphysiological, since the spontaneous release of human GH during a 24-h period is purportedly -0.68 mg (4.8 mg/wk) in men and 0.79 mg (5.5 mg/wk) in women (30), similar to amounts reported by others (6).


CONCLUSION

In the present study, we found that alternate-day treatment with met-hGH altered body composition in highly conditioned, exercising adults by increasing FFW (fat free weight), decreasing %fat, and increasing FFW (fat free weight)/FW (fat weight). These changes were significantly greater than those produced by exercise alone. 
...
Moreover we found that supraphysiological amounts of met-hGH were sufficient to significantly elevate circulating concentrations of IGF-I in all our subjects, confirming that the changes in body composition were indeed due to real alterations produced in vivo by the hormone treatment. 


Supression of endogenous GH

It has been reported previously that exogenous GH will suppress endogenous release of the hormone (19,23) and that this effect may be mediated in part by elevated levels of IGF-I (23). On a preliminary basis, we found that treatment for 6 wk with supraphysiological doses of met-hGH produced an impaired endogenous GH response to stimulation in some, but not all, of our subjects. This variable response may be related to the amount of hormone used in the study. Although a significant group elevation in IGF-I levels occurred during the met-hGH treatment, this response was still below the upper limit of normal (2.20 U/ml) for the study group. Thus it is plausible that the treatment dose of met-hGH used and the subsequent moderate increase in IGF-I levels led to feedback suppression of endogenous GH release in five of the seven subjects measured for this effect, whereas these physiological events were insufficient to produce this effect in two of the subjects. 


Intense exercise increases sensitivity to GH??

...One possible explanation for the disparity between our findings and those of others (25, 26) is that the stress of long-term, intensive exercise training could induce alterations in vivo, which might potentiate tissue sensitivity to the physiological actions of GH (2). In any case, it is clear from our findings that supraphysiological doses of met-hGH increased circulating concentrations of IGF-I and increased FFW (fat free weight) and decreased FW (fat weight) in highly conditioned, exercising adults. 


Soft-tissue Overgrowth?

There are two principal adverse reactions associated with excessive amounts of human GH, carbohydrate intolerance, and soft-tissue overgrowth. In the present study, we measured fasting blood glucose levels periodically throughout each treatment and found no real changes suggestive of a hyperglycemic response to methGH. Because soft-tissue overgrowth is associated with abnormally high levels of IGF-I, the normal responses observed suggest that the chance for soft-tissue overgrowth occurring in our subjects was minimal. However, it is unreasonable to conclude that use of met-hGH is safe as an adjunct to exercise in healthy adults until more subjects are studied over longer periods of time and with more stringent tests for detecting changes in glucose tolerance and soft-tissue overgrowth. 


Diet used

To avoid compromising the dietary requirements for optimal tissue anabolism during the met-hGH treatment, our subjects ingested between 2.05 and 2.10 g/kg a day of protein and a minimum number of kilocalories to maintain body weight. The kilocaloric requirement removed the potential bias from a dietary-induced FW loss. 


In Conclusion

We conclude that treatment with supraphysiological doses of met-hGH will significantly alter body composition in adults who are highly conditioned from years of exercise training. The magnitude of this effect, however, is dependent in part on the amount of hormone given per body weight of the individual rather than endogenous GH secretory status. Changes in body composition are directly related to met-hGH administration, but the manifestations of treatment may be mediated in part by increased production of IGF-I or other GH-dependent serum anabolic factors. Moreover, supraphysiological treatment with met-hGH in exercising adults may produce impairments in the stimulated release of endogenous GH in some individuals.

----------


## babyface770

So guys I'm going to hit 5IU today which I will split into 2 hits , due to my work I can't hit in the afternoon , so Ill hit in the evening and at 4 am , but when would be the best shot at evening , exactly before I go to bed ??



And my other question is that on saturday I have no work so I can hit an am/pm shot , now do I do that or just stick to an evening and am shot ?

----------


## Xtralarg

> great thread here guys, altho im new here and really only lurk notsmall knows me from over on ukiron.
> 
> I have ran gh only this year during my contest pre and now i am running it during pct. during prep i ran it at 4iu pre bed and this seemed to work a treat. i was advised to do this by the guy who helped me prep from the usa and helps quite a few top level guys. i came in very good condition IMO and i believe growth played a major part in this.
> 
> Now during pct i am running the same brand but decided to run it in the am injected IM 10 mins pre cardio. this is 5 on 2 off. on off days i am running ghrp6 at 150mcg x 3 per day.
> 
> Im sat here now with tingles in my left shoulder and thats were i did the jab this am. however i had the same tingles when shooting pre bed. to be honest im not noticing any difference.
> 
> I have enough to run for another 6 weeks so i will continue in the am for another 2 weeks then switch to pre bed IM for 4 weeks and see if i notice any difference. so far it seems not. alot of guys on uk-muscle were i post mainly have tried split doses/pre bed and in the am and no1 seems to notice much difference.
> ...



Welcome to the thread mate, some interesting stuff there.

It has got me thinking that there must be more up to date studies out there along the same lines as that one using somatropin and for longer periods of time, I think that the conclusions to such studies would be along similar lines but better with 191aa rhGH.

Are you using any T4 with your GH?

----------


## Xtralarg

> So guys I'm going to hit 5IU today which I will split into 2 hits , due to my work I can't hit in the afternoon , so Ill hit in the evening and at 4 am , but when would be the best shot at evening , exactly before I go to bed ??
> 
> 
> 
> And my other question is that on saturday I have no work so I can hit an am/pm shot , now do I do that or just stick to an evening and am shot ?


Do you eat just before bed?

If so then I would do it inbetween your penultimate and last meal (this is when I take my 100mcg of T4)

You could try shooting at different times on your days off work, if you do then you can monitor your response by any sides which you may or may not experience.

I think it is becoming more apparent throughout this thread that the injection times are not crutial to the overall outcome and effectiveness of hGH and that it is definitely not an exact science!

----------


## hilly2010

> Welcome to the thread mate, some interesting stuff there.
> 
> It has got me thinking that there must be more up to date studies out there along the same lines as that one using somatropin and for longer periods of time, I think that the conclusions to such studies would be along similar lines but better with 191aa rhGH.
> 
> Are you using any T4 with your GH?


No mate, i was using t3 when dieting for the last 6 weeks so have come off all meds now. thryoid seems to be running slow but its only been 4 weeks so im hoping it will sort itself over the next week or 2

----------


## Xtralarg

> No mate, i was using t3 when dieting for the last 6 weeks so have come off all meds now. thryoid seems to be running slow but its only been 4 weeks so im hoping it will sort itself over the next week or 2


Have you had bloods done?

Just to clarify, are you still using hGH?

----------


## hilly2010

yes i am using hgh mon-fri 4iu in the am shot IM.

have had bloods done but didnt get thryoid checked. however morning temp on rising is below what it should be altho has increased since this time last week and the week before which is a good indication

----------


## Xtralarg

> yes i am using hgh mon-fri 4iu in the am shot IM.
> 
> have had bloods done but didnt get thryoid checked. however morning temp on rising is below what it should be altho has increased since this time last week and the week before which is a good indication


I bet if you had your thyroid checked your TSH would be elevated and FT3 and FT4 low, you really should add 100mcg of T4 ed if your on hGH.

----------


## babyface770

> Do you eat just before bed?
> 
> If so then I would do it inbetween your penultimate and last meal (this is when I take my 100mcg of T4)
> 
> You could try shooting at different times on your days off work, if you do then you can monitor your response by any sides which you may or may not experience.
> 
> I think it is becoming more apparent throughout this thread that the injection times are not crutial to the overall outcome and effectiveness of hGH and that it is definitely not an exact science!


Thanks for the reply,, ill hit an am/pm shot in my off days and the rest of the days ill have the night shot ,, and my last meal everynight is a protien shake and the one before that would be the ultimate dinner so ill have my shot and my T4 at that time  :Smilie:  

I hope I got it right

Thanks again

----------


## Xtralarg

> Thanks for the reply,, ill hit an am/pm shot in my off days and the rest of the days ill have the night shot ,, and my last meal everynight is a protien shake and the one before that would be the ultimate dinner so ill have my shot and my T4 at that time  
> 
> I hope I got it right
> 
> Thanks again


Ok, have it between the meal and the shake. Blood sugar wants to be normal for hGH and stomach empty for T4.

----------


## Xtralarg

A few days ago I said I would split my hGH into 5 shots and have it throughout the day.

So far I have managed to do this between meals, the only difference I can detect so far is that I am even more tired than normal, to the point where I HAVE to sleep!

----------


## NotSmall

> A few days ago I said I would split my hGH into 5 shots and have it throughout the day.
> 
> So far I have managed to do this between meals, the only difference I can detect so far is that I am even more tired than normal, to the point where I HAVE to sleep!


Mate I am already in that boat shooting 5iu at bedtime and 5iu early am, I HATE napping in the day - makes me all spun-out and grumpy for at least an hour after I wake up but the last few weeks I am having to arrange my diary for the day so that I can come home at lunchtime and pass out for a few hours, otherwise I am nearly falling asleep at the wheel - it's the only thing that may prevent me from continuing this GH run indefinitely.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Mate I am already in that boat shooting 5iu at bedtime and 5iu early am, I HATE napping in the day - makes me all spun-out and grumpy for at least an hour after I wake up but the last few weeks I am having to arrange my diary for the day so that I can come home at lunchtime and pass out for a few hours, otherwise I am nearly falling asleep at the wheel - it's the only thing that may prevent me from continuing this GH run indefinitely.


Well let me tell you bud if you split them shots it will hit you hard!

Were you like that on a lower dose?

----------


## BJJ

XL, I was considering that when I took my blood work I was running 4 iu ed with 50 mcg of T4.
So, those results come from those amount of drugs.

Now I am injecting 10 iu ed with 100 mcg of T4.
Could it be too low, I mean 100 mcg of T4 should be correct for 4 iu and not 10.

Should not I bump it to 150 mcg ed?

----------


## NotSmall

> Well let me tell you bud if you split them shots it will hit you hard!
> 
> Were you like that on a lower dose?


I have never had lethargy like this with any of the other dosing protocols I have run, might start trying to counter it with some ECA mid morning...

----------


## hilly2010

> I bet if you had your thyroid checked your TSH would be elevated and FT3 and FT4 low, you really should add 100mcg of T4 ed if your on hGH.


even tho im trying to get my thryoid to recover from using t3?

----------


## BJJ

> even tho im trying to get my thryoid to recover from using t3?


How can you recover it if using hgh.

----------


## Xtralarg

> XL, I was considering that when I took my blood work I was running 4 iu ed with 50 mcg of T4.
> So, those results come from those amount of drugs.
> 
> Now I am injecting 10 iu ed with 100 mcg of T4.
> Could it be too low, I mean 100 mcg of T4 should be correct for 4 iu and not 10.
> 
> Should not I bump it to 150 mcg ed?


The only way to get an exact answer is to get your bloods done and see what the levels are. I have my bloods done and 100mcg ed with 8iu of hGH puts me within the normal range.

----------


## Xtralarg

> even tho im trying to get my thryoid to recover from using t3?


Like BJJ says the hGH will supress your thyroid. 

I had my bloods done a while ago and came off hGH and thyroxine for one week prior to the test and all levels were normal.

When did you stop using T3 in relation to getting bloods done?

----------


## hilly2010

I got bloods done 2 weeks ago so 2 weeks after stopping t3 however when bloods were done i didnt get thyroid checked.

so you reckon i would be better adding in 100mcg t4 while running the growth during pct then coming off the t4 once i come off the growth as in 10 weeks time im going clean of everything for 4-6 weeks then getting a full blood panel done checking test levels etc

----------


## BJJ

> The only way to get an exact answer is to get your bloods done and see what the levels are. I have my bloods done and 100mcg ed with 8iu of hGH puts me within the normal range.


Yes you are totally correct.
I will wait a couple of weeks and then check them again, hoping...

Do you know the half life of somatropin as well as its active life.
I cannot find those information.

----------


## BJJ

Also XL, my wife wants to try somatropin too.
What amount would you suggest?
She is already very lean and athletic so the minimum working amount for a female should be more than enough.

Stats:
34 years old
178 cm (5'84 feet)
56 kg (123 lbs)
15% bf

----------


## Xtralarg

> I got bloods done 2 weeks ago so 2 weeks after stopping t3 however when bloods were done i didnt get thyroid checked.
> 
> so you reckon i would be better adding in 100mcg t4 while running the growth during pct then coming off the t4 once i come off the growth as in 10 weeks time im going clean of everything for 4-6 weeks then getting a full blood panel done checking test levels etc


Yes I would add the t4 whilst you are running hGH, your thyroid should recover within a few days of coming off thyroxine.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Also XL, my wife wants to try somatropin too.
> What amount would you suggest?
> She is already very lean and athletic so the minimum working amount for a female should be more than enough.
> 
> Stats:
> 34 years old
> 178 cm (5'84 feet)
> 56 kg (123 lbs)
> 15% bf


I would start her on 1iu and work up to 2iu's, she should see some nice results from that.

A couple of years back I worked with a female who was a fitness model, she ran a dose of 2iu's early am, 5 on 2 off and achieved some really good results, I asked her to marry me many times but she refused  :Frown:

----------


## Vitruvian-Man

I'm on 5iu/ed.... 2.5iu AM & 2.5iu PWO. Just added GHRP-6 into the mix @ 100mcg x 3 each day. Loving it. 

My girlfriend is on 1.2iu/ed... she's been on for around 4 months now... starting to notice the benefits now.. prior to this, she only experienced the sides (sore wrists, etc)

-VM

----------


## Xtralarg

> I'm on 5iu/ed.... 2.5iu AM & 2.5iu PWO. Just added GHRP-6 into the mix @ 100mcg x 3 each day. Loving it. 
> 
> My girlfriend is on 1.2iu/ed... she's been on for around 4 months now... starting to notice the benefits now.. prior to this, she only experienced the sides (sore wrists, etc)
> 
> -VM


Thanks for the input.

How long have you been running hGH?

What results have you experienced?

----------


## Vitruvian-Man

> What results have you experienced?


*-- Experiences:*

1.) The HGH didn't really help me with my sleeping problem (I rarely sleep. Max 6 hours per night.) During the day I noticed I would yawn more regularly. But I wasn't necessarily sleeping more. Once I added the peptide (GHRP-6) into the mix, my sleeps got much deeper, and for one vivid. 

2.) I had awful soreness in my wrists, so I tapered up really slowly. After staying on 5iu/ed for around 3 weeks the soreness and dryness began to subside.

3.) IMO the only way to draw out water when you blow up from HGH bloating is a diuretic. I've tried everything, and it was the only thing I found useful in controlling the unexplainable & usually unexpected HGH bloat.

4.) Don't bother with I.M. shots. It's not worth it. End of story.

5.) This is just my opinion, no scientific proof here.... Run HGH for 8 - 12 months if you're just doing a burst. And by burst I mean you're looking for muscle growth effects; also meaning you're running it between 4 - 8iu/ed+. If you're cruising on 2 - 3iu/ed of HGH permenantly, then the burst length does not have to be 8 - 12 months, it can be shortened, since levels should be elevated. 

Hope that helps.

-VM

----------


## Xtralarg

> Yes you are totally correct.
> I will wait a couple of weeks and then check them again, hoping...
> 
> Do you know the half life of somatropin as well as its active life.
> I cannot find those information.


Half and active lives depend on admistration method.

The mean half-life of intravenous somatropin is 20-30 mins, whereas subcutaneously and intramuscularly administered somatropin have half-lives of between 1.7 and 3.4 hours, respectively. The longer half-life observed after subcutaneous or intramuscular administration is due to slow absorption from the injection site.

Molitch ME, Clemmons DR, Malozowski S, et al, Evaluation and Treatment of Adult Growth Hormone Deficiency: An Endocrine Society Clinical Practice Guideline, J Clin Endocrinol Metab, 2006, 91(5):1621-34.

----------


## BloodyBM

whats up fellas First off i just wanna say thank you for sharing your experiences with hgh i have learned a ton from reading these post. 

I have been on *Hyge* for about 2 months now and i must say i am pleased with it so far. I started off with 2iu's ED AM shots, after 2 weeks of that i upped the dosage to 4iu am, now im taking it 2iuAM and 2iu afternoon. I have some fat to burn off but when i do i know its gonna be special because i can feel my six pack muscles under that bit of fat i pinch. Im 40lbs over my usual weight but when i flex i can see a 4 pack, and also the v cuts in my lower abdomen. 

stats really brief are 26yo 6'2 270lbs BF not sure, my goal is to get my weight back down to 228 - 235lbs lean and maintain this throughout the year instead of going up and down.

----------


## hilly2010

> Yes I would add the t4 whilst you are running hGH, your thyroid should recover within a few days of coming off thyroxine.


cheers mate

----------


## NotSmall

> [B][U]4.) Don't bother with I.M. shots. It's not worth it. End of story.


What makes you say that?

----------


## bjpennnn

Guys i want to start another hgh run but i am afraid of gyno hgh wha should i do to prevent this you think? Get some blood work? You think if you have a little gyno that is not recognizable wit yrou shirt off but you can feel it the hgh will make it worse?


hahaha thanks guys. i know a lot of questions.

----------


## BJJ

> I would start her on 1iu and work up to 2iu's, she should see some nice results from that.
> 
> A couple of years back I worked with a female who was a fitness model, she ran a dose of 2iu's early am, 5 on 2 off and achieved some really good results, *I asked her to marry me many times but she refused*


*I am sorry to read that lol; instead I succeeded 

Alexia: "thank you XL, much appreciate it. I'll share my experience here if you don't mind".*




> Half and active lives depend on admistration method.
> 
> The mean half-life of intravenous somatropin is 20-30 mins, whereas subcutaneously and intramuscularly administered somatropin have half-lives of between 1.7 and 3.4 hours, respectively. The longer half-life observed after subcutaneous or intramuscular administration is due to slow absorption from the injection site.
> 
> *That was interesting to know. Grazie*
> 
> Molitch ME, Clemmons DR, Malozowski S, et al, Evaluation and Treatment of Adult Growth Hormone Deficiency: An Endocrine Society Clinical Practice Guideline, J Clin Endocrinol Metab, 2006, 91(5):1621-34.





> What makes you say that?


*...x2*

----------


## NotSmall

> *I am sorry to read that lol; instead I succeeded 
> *


 :LOL:   :LOL:

----------


## BJJ

> I'm on 5iu/ed.... 2.5iu AM & 2.5iu PWO. Just added GHRP-6 into the mix @ 100mcg x 3 each day. Loving it. 
> 
> My girlfriend is on 1.2iu/ed... she's been on for around 4 months now... starting to notice the benefits now.. prior to this, she only experienced the sides (sore wrists, etc)
> 
> -VM


Do not you take any T4 with?

----------


## Xtralarg

> *-- Experiences:*
> 
> 1.) The HGH didn't really help me with my sleeping problem (I rarely sleep. Max 6 hours per night.) During the day I noticed I would yawn more regularly. But I wasn't necessarily sleeping more. Once I added the peptide (GHRP-6) into the mix, my sleeps got much deeper, and for one vivid. 
> 
> 2.) I had awful soreness in my wrists, so I tapered up really slowly. After staying on 5iu/ed for around 3 weeks the soreness and dryness began to subside.
> 
> 3.) IMO the only way to draw out water when you blow up from HGH bloating is a diuretic. I've tried everything, and it was the only thing I found useful in controlling the unexplainable & usually unexpected HGH bloat.
> 
> 4.) Don't bother with I.M. shots. It's not worth it. End of story.
> ...


Thanks for the response.

HGH ramps up your ADH (anti diuretic hormone) and this is the main reason for the bloat, this can be controlled to a certain extent by adjusting your sodium intake.

Why do you say that about IM shots?

----------


## Xtralarg

> Alexia: "thank you XL, much appreciate it. I'll share my experience here if you don't mind".


Please do, it will be good to have the input of a female using hGH here.

----------


## Xtralarg

> whats up fellas First off i just wanna say thank you for sharing your experiences with hgh i have learned a ton from reading these post. 
> 
> I have been on *Hyge* for about 2 months now and i must say i am pleased with it so far. I started off with 2iu's ED AM shots, after 2 weeks of that i upped the dosage to 4iu am, now im taking it 2iuAM and 2iu afternoon. I have some fat to burn off but when i do i know its gonna be special because i can feel my six pack muscles under that bit of fat i pinch. Im 40lbs over my usual weight but when i flex i can see a 4 pack, and also the v cuts in my lower abdomen. 
> 
> stats really brief are 26yo 6'2 270lbs BF not sure, my goal is to get my weight back down to 228 - 235lbs lean and maintain this throughout the year instead of going up and down.


Thanks for posting, keep us updated on your progress.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Guys i want to start another hgh run but i am afraid of gyno hgh wha should i do to prevent this you think? Get some blood work? You think if you have a little gyno that is not recognizable wit yrou shirt off but you can feel it the hgh will make it worse?
> 
> 
> hahaha thanks guys. i know a lot of questions.


Do you already have a problem wih gyno?

----------


## BloodyBM

> Thanks for posting, keep us updated on your progress.


Thanks will do

----------


## paddy155

Hi Guy's. I would like to know where would be the best place to find article's related to hgh. I am currently 28 year's old at the moment but intend to use hgh when I turn 30,so I have about 18 moths to get myself a fair degree of knowledge so that I know exactly what I need to do when the time is right. I don't want to go into it blind like I did with aas. 
Thank's.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Hi Guy's. I would like to know where would be the best place to find article's related to hgh. I am currently 28 year's old at the moment but intend to use hgh when I turn 30,so I have about 18 moths to get myself a fair degree of knowledge so that I know exactly what I need to do when the time is right. I don't want to go into it blind like I did with aas. 
> Thank's.


Read the stickies and ask questions. If things dont make sence then someone here will help you out, dont be afraid to ask, you can use this thread if you dont want to start your own.

----------


## bjpennnn

i have no gyno under one nip at all. and have like a a flat pea size disk on my right side that you cannot see just feel.

----------


## Hazard

I'm currently taking T3 with my HGH..... trying to rip up a bit. Whats the consensus on T4 and T3......? Which would you guys go with?

i'll post up 2 pics in a min.....

~Haz~

----------


## Hazard

Here they are.....

 

~Haz~

----------


## Hazard

I'm finding that the T3 combined with cardio is helping A LOT! Just wondering if T4 would be a better option long term.....

~Haz~

----------


## babyface770

guys where do you usually hit ?

i mean how to avoid scar tissues ?



and i had my 2 hits today 

iv having my 2.5 before bed time ..i had my ultimate meal an hour ago .. does it matter when can i have my protien shake before bed time ? wait 30 mins after the shot or doesnt really make a difference ?

----------


## marcus300

> Here they are.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Haz~


Thats one hell of a cock on you Haz

----------


## marcus300

> guys where do you usually hit ?
> 
> i mean how to avoid scar tissues ?
> 
> 
> 
> and i had my 2 hits today 
> 
> iv having my 2.5 before bed time ..i had my ultimate meal an hour ago .. does it matter when can i have my protien shake before bed time ? wait 30 mins after the shot or doesnt really make a difference ?


Rotate it around your lower abs sub-q

----------


## bjpennnn

looking really solid haz

----------


## Xtralarg

> I'm finding that the T3 combined with cardio is helping A LOT! Just wondering if T4 would be a better option long term.....
> 
> ~Haz~


Have a read of this, it was posted here some time ago.....still worth thinking about though.

Thyroid Hormone + Growth Hormone 
(If You Arent Using T4 with Your GH, Youre Not Doing It Right)

by Anthony Roberts with James Daemon, Ph.D.

Anthony Roberts has been researching anabolic steroids for over a decade and is the author of the new ebook, Beyond Steroids, as well as the reference book, Anabolic Steroids : Ultimate Research Guide. He began his research at the age of seventeen while he was a competitive martial artist, ultimately winning a silver medal in his state martial arts tournament in the black belt division.His firsthand experience in steroids began after he switched sports and began playing rugby, in which he ultimately made two consecutive appearances at the hooker position in the national collegiate all-star games.

Anabolic Steroid Books
Anabolics 2006 by William Llewellyn - Regarded as the undisputed mother of all steroid reference manuals! Pro bodybuilders, world-class powerlifters, Olympic competitors, and professional athletes alike have relied on ANABOLICS for the better part of a decade.

Anabolic Steroids: The Ultimate Research Guide by Anthony Roberts - This book isnt another dry technical manual that will have you asking more questions than when you first starting reading it. It has been written in a straight forward and conversational style that you will understand

Legal Muscle by Rick Collin - The ultimate anabolic steroid resource, covering all aspects of non-medical anabolic steroid use under American law. It's essential reading for natural and "juiced" athletes alike.

Recent Articles
Winstrol - Oral versus Injectable by Anthony Roberts (June 2006)

Anabolic Steroid Induced Hypogonadism by Michael Scally, MD (April 2006)

Designing an Anabolic Steroid Cycle by Anthony Roberts (March 2006)

Should Nolvadex be Avoided at All Cost? by Dharkam (January 30, 2006)

Masteron As An Anti-Estrogen by Anthony Roberts (January 23, 2006)

Steroids and Red Blood Cells by William Llewellyn (January 3, 2006)

Post Cycle Therapy (PCT) by Anthony Roberts (November 14, 2005)

Testosterone for Women: Waiting for the Female Aphrodisiac by John Hoberman, PhD (August 14, 2005)

Anabolic Steroids and Suicide: A Brief Review of the Evidence by Jack Darkes, PhD (July 19, 2005)

Dopers in Uniform - Cops on Steroids by John Hoberman, PhD (May 22, 2005)

Multimedia
HBO Real Sports "Anabolic Steroids Can Be Used Safely..."

Virtually everybody from sportswriters and talk-show hosts to league executives and U.S. Congressmen has weighed in on the subject of steroid use. In a tell-all book that made headlines this spring, former baseball star Jose Canseco wrote about the positive effects of steroids in reasonable doses. Was he right? Armen Keteyian, who has been reporting on illegal substances in sports for the past five years, investigates the belief held by some scientists that steroids, when properly administered, cause no harm in adults. Downloadable Video 44 MB




Posted July 23, 2006. Originally published at http://www.*************.net)

Discussion of pharmaceutical agents below is presented for information only. Nothing here is meant to take the place of advice from a licensed health care practitioner. Consult a physician before taking any medication.

Quite some time ago, I wrote a book on Anabolics, and since then, Ive received quite a bit of feedback on it. Some of the information contained in the book is based on the 50-60 profiles I completed for Steroid.coms main page. As a result, I get feedback on certain portions of the book from people who have read them online. 

When someone takes the time to send an e-mail to Steroid.com or AnabolicBooks LLC, theyre screened, and eventually some of them make their way to my e-mail account. AnabolicBooks LLC is publisher- a little known fact is that my book is actually wasnt edited by me, nor do I own the rights to any of it. When they forward an e-mail to me, I typically consider it very carefully, and reply to the original sender. If amendments or additions are useful for anything Ive previously written (readers frequently send me recently published studies), I typically reply and thank the person for their help. 

This time, something odd happened. I was forwarded an e-mail from AnabolicBooks, and the reader seemed to know what he was talking about, but (I thought) mistaken about interactions between Growth Hormone and Thyroid medication. I took a look at the e-mail, and knew that I could quickly find a study that I had saved previously, to send to the reader, to verify that the claims in my work on GH were sound. 

In this particular case- James Daemon, PhD- was the reader, and was correct in his assessment of the interaction between thyroid hormone and Growth Hormone. And, in direct contradiction, so was I. Thyroid medication decreases the anabolic effect of Growth Hormone. And it increases it. 

Huh? 

Therere some leaps here, because research in some of the necessary areas is sketchy (or not done yet), but if you read the entirety of this article, youll learn how to get a significantly more gains from Growth Hormone, for pennies a day, by the addition of a readily available (and cheap) addition to it. And yeah, its a drug you can get anywhere on the net, very easily. And no, its not a steroid.

In fact, Ill go so far as to say youre throwing away a substantial portion of your gains from growth hormone if you are not using this drug with it.

OkIll explain things a bit further. First, a brief explanation of Thyroid Hormone as well as Growth Hormone may be necessary. 

Your thyroid gland secretes two hormones that are going to be of primary importance in understanding Thyroid/GH interaction. The first is thyroxine (T4) and the second is triiodothyronine (T3). T3 is frequently considered the physiologically active hormone, and consequently the one on which most athletes and bodybuilders focus their energies on. T4, on the other hand, is converted in peripheral tissue into T3 by the enzymes in the deiodinase group, of which there are three types- the three iodothyronine deiodinase either catalyze the initiation (D1, D2) or termination (D3) of thyroid hormone effects. The majority of the body's T3 (about 80%) comes from this conversion via the first two types of deiodinase, while conversion to an inactive state is accomplished by the third type. 

Its important to note that not all of the bodys T4 is converted to T3, however- some remains unconverted. The secretion of T4 is under the control of Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) which is produced by the pituitary gland. TSH secretion is in turn controlled through release of Thyrotropin Releasing Hormone which is produced in your hypothalamus. So, when T3 levels go up, TSH secretion is suppressed, due to the bodys self regulatory system known as the "negative feedback loop" . This is also the mechanism whereby exogenous thyroid hormone suppresses natural thyroid hormone production. However, it should be noted that thyroid stimulating hormone (like all other hormones) can not work in a vacuum. TSH also requires the presence of Insulin or Insulin-like Growth Factor to stimulate thyroid function (1) When thyroid hormone is present without either insulin or IGF-1, it has no physiological effect (ibid).

Most people think that T3 is just a physiologically active hormone that regulates bodyfat setpoint and has some minor anabolic effects, but in actuality, in some cases of delayed growth in children, T3 is actually too low, while GH levels are normal, and this has a growth limiting effect on several tissues (2) This could be due to T3s ability to stimulate the proliferation of IGF-1 mRNA in many tissues (which would, of course, be anabolic), or it could be due to the synergistic effect T3 has on GH, specifically on regulation of the growth hormone gene. Although it is largely overlooked in the world of performance enhancement, regulation of the growth hormone response is predominantly determined by positive control of growth hormone gene transcription which is proportional to the concentration of thyroid hormone-receptor complexes, which are influenced by T3 levels. (3)

At this point, just to give you a better understanding of whats going on, I think its prudent to also give a brief explanation of Growth Hormone (GH) as well. 

Your bodys GH is regulated by many internal factors, such as hormones and enzymes. hormones. A change in the level of your bodys GH output begins in the hypothalamus with somatostatin (SS) and growth hormone-releasing hormone (GHRH). Somatostatin exerts its effect at the pituitary to decrease GH output, while GHRH acts at the pituitary to increase GH output. Together these hormones regulate the level of GH you have in your body. In many cases, GH deficiency presents with a low level of T3, and normal T4(4). This is of course because conversion of T4-T3 is partially dependant on GH (and to some degree GH stimulated IGF-1), and its ability to stimulate that conversion process of T4 into T3.

Interestingly, the hypothalamus isnt the only place where SS is contained; the thyroid gland also contains Somatostatin-producing cells. This is of interest to us, because in the case of the thyroid, its been noted that certain hormones which were previously thought only to govern GH secretion can also influence thyroid hormone output as well. SS can directly act to inhibit TSH secretion or it may act on the hypothalamus to inhibit TRH secretion. So when you add GH into your body from an outside source, you are triggering the body into releasing SS, because your body no longer needs to produce its own supply of GHand unfortunately, the release of SS can also inhibit TSH, and therefore limit the amount of T4 your body produces. 

But thats not the only interaction we see between the thyroid and Growth Hormone. 

As we learned in high-school Biology class, the body likes to maintain homeostasis, or "normal" operating conditions. This is the bodys version of the status quo, and it fights like hell to maintain the comfort of the status quo (much like moderators on most steroid discussion boards). What we see with thyroid/GH interplay is that physiological levels of circulating thyroid hormones are necessary to maintain normal pituitary GH secretion, due to their directly stimulatory actions. However, when serum concentrations of thyroid hormone increase above the normal range we see an increase in hypothalamic somatostatin action, which suppresses pituitary GH secretion and overrides any stimulatory effects that the thyroid hormone may have had on GH. The suppression of GH secretion by thyroid hormones is probably mediated at the hypothalamic level by a decrease in GHRH release(5). 

In addition, as IGF-I production is increased in the hypothalamus after T3 administration and T3 may participate in IGF-1 mediated negative feedback of GH by triggering either increased somatostatin tone and/or decreased GHRH production (6). IGF, interestingly, has the ability to mediate some of T3s effects independent of GH, but not to the same degree GH can (7.) In fact, IGF-I production is increased in the hypothalamus after T3, administration it may plausibly participate in negative feedback by triggering either increased somatostatin tone and/or decreased GHRH production. So we know that GH lowers T4 (more about this in a sec), but an increase in T3 upregulates GH receptors (8) as well as IGF-1 receptors (9,10).

As can be previously stated, and due to the ability of GH to convert inactive T4 into active T3, GH administration in healthy athletes shows us an entirely predicatble increase in mean free T3 (fT3), and a decrease in mean free T4 (fT4) levels.(11) 




Interaction between GH, IGF-I, T3, and GC. GH stimulates hepatic IGF-I secretion and local production of growth plate IGF-I, and exerts direct actions in the growth plate. Circulating T3 is derived from the thyroid gland and by enzymatic deiodination of T4 in liver and kidne.. The regulatory 5'-DI and 11ßHSD type 2 enzymes may also be expressed in chondrocytes to control local supplies of intracellular T3 and GC. Receptors for each hormone (GHR, IGF-IR, TR, GR) are expressed in growth plate chondrocytes.

So, with the use of GH, what we see is an increased conversion of T4-T3, and possible inhibition of Thyroid Releasing Hormone by Somatostatin, and therefore even though T3 levels may rise, there is no increase in T4 (logically, we see a decrease). Now, as weve seen, GH is HIGHLY synergistic with T3 in the body, and as a mater of fact, if youve been paying any attention up until this point, youll note that the limiting factor on GHs ability to exert many of its effects, is mediated by the amount of T3 in the body. 

As noted before, T3 enhances many effects of GH by several mechanisms, including (but not limited to): increasing IGF-1 levels, IGF-1 mRNA levels, and finally by actually mediating the control of the growth hormone gene transcription process as seen below:


Comparison of the kinetics of L-T3-receptor binding abundance to changes in the rate of transcription of the GH gene.(3)

As you can see, T3 levels are directly correlative to GH gene transcription. The scientists who conducted the study which provided the graph above concluded that the amount of T3 present is a regulatory factor on how much GH gene transcription actually occurs. And gene transcription is what actually gives us the effects from GH. This last fact really seems to shed some light on why we need T3 levels to be supraphysiological if were going to be using supraphysiological levels of GH, right? Otherwise, the GH were using is going to be limited by the amount of T3 our body produces. However, since were taking GH, and it is converting more T4 into T3, T4 levels are lowered substantially, and this is the problem with GH. and may actually be THE limiting factor on GHif we assume that at least some of GHs effects are enhanced by thyroid hormone, and specifically T3, then what we are looking at is the GH that has been injected is being limited by a lack of T3. But that doesnt make sense, because if we use T3 + GH, we get a decrease in the anabolic effect of GH. 

This is where Mr. Daemon, who had contacted me via an e-mail to my publisher, about Thyroid + GH interaction, was able to shed some light on things. You see, I knew that it couldnt just be the actual presence of enough T3 along with the GH that was limiting GHs anabolic effect, because, simply adding T3 to a GH cycle will reduce the anabolic effect of the GH (12.). 

Originally, he had said to me that T3 was synergistic with GH, wheras I said that T3 actually reduced the anabolic effects of GH- now I realize we were both correct. Logically this presents a bit of a problem, which I believe can be solved. This came from reading several studies provided to me by Dr.Daemon. the trend I was seeing was that even when Growth Hormone therapy was used, T3 levels needed to be elevated in order to treat several conditions caused by a lack of natural growth hormone. And even if the patient was on GH, T3 levels still needed to be elevated. And what I noticed was that those levels were elevated successfully by using supplemental T4 but not T3. 

Heres why I think this is:

Additional T3 is not all thats needed here. Whats needed is the actual conversion process of T4-T3, and the deiodinase presence and activity that it involves. This is because Local 5'-deiodination of l-thyroxine (T4) to active the thyroid hormone 3,3',5-tri-iodothyronine (T3) is catalyzed by the two 5'-deiodinase enzymes (D1 and D2). These enzymes not only "create" T3 out of T4, but actually regulates various T(3)-dependent functions in many tissues including the anterior pituitary and liver. So when there is an excess of T3 in the body, but normal levels of T4, the bodys thyroid axis sends a negative feedback signal., and produces less (D1 and D2) deiodinase, but more of the D3 type, which signals the cessation of the T4-T3 conversion process, and is inhibitory of many of the synergistic effects that T3 has! Remember, Type 3 iodothyronine deiodinase (D3) is the physiologic INACTIVATOR of thyroid hormones and their effects (13) and is well known to have independent interaction with growth factors (which is what GH and IGF-1 are).(14) This is because with adequate T4 and excess T3, (D1 and D2) deiodinase is no longer needed for conversion of T4 into T3, but levels of D3 deiodinase will be elevated. When there is less of the first two types of deidinase, it would seem that the T3 which has been converted to T4 can not exert its protein sparing (anabolic effects), as those first two types are responsible for mediation of many of the effects T3 has on the body. This seems to be one of the ways deiodinase contributes to anabolism in the presence of other hormones. 

All of this would explain why anecdotally we see bodybuilders who use T3 lose a lot of muscle if they arent using anabolics along with it- theyre not utilizing the enzyme that would regulate some of T3s ability to stimulate protein synthesis, while they are simultaneously signaling the body to produce an inhibitory enzyme (D3). And remember, for decades bodybuilders who were dieting for a contest have been convinced that you lose less muscle with T4 use, but that its less effective for losing fat when compared with T3? Well, as weve seen, without something (GH in this case) to aid in the conversion process, it would clearly be less effective! Since the deiodinase enzyme is also located in the liver, and we see decreased hepatic nitrogen clearance with GH + T3, it would seem that the D3 enzyme is exerting its inhibitory effects, but in the absence of the effects of the first two deiodinase enzymes, it remains unchecked and therefore not only limits the GHs nitrogen retention capability. 

In other words, if we have enough to GH in our body aid in supraphysiological conversion of T4 into T3, but we already have the too much (exogenous) T3, the GH is not going to be converting any excess T4 into T3 after a certain point- which would be a limiting factor in GHs anabolic effects, when coupled with the act that weve allowed the D3 enzyme to inhibit the T3/GH synergy that is necessary. 

As further evidence, when we look at certain types of cellular growth (the cartilage cell in this case) we see that GH induced rises in IGF-I stimulates proliferation, whereas T3 is responsible for hypertrophic differentiation. So it would seem that in some tissues, IGF-1 stimulates the synthesis of new cells, while T3 makes them larger. In this particular case, The fact that T4 and (D1) deiodinase is am active component in this system is noted by the authors. They clearly state (paraphrasing) that: "T4 is is converted to T3 by deiodinase (5'-DI type 1) in peripheral tissues[furthermore]GH stimulates conversion of T4 to T3 , suggesting that some effects of GH may involve this pathway." The thing I want you to notice is that the authors of this paper state that the that the conversion PATHWAY is probably involved, and not the simple presence of T3. (15 )

Also, that same study notes that T3 has the ability to stimulates IGF-I and expression in tissues that whereas GH has no such effect (ibid).

So what are we doing when we add T3 to GH? Were effectively shutting down the conversion pathway that is responsible for some of GHs effects! And what would we be doing if we added in T4 instead of T3? You got it- wed be enhancing the pathway by allowing the GH were using to have more T4 to convert to T3, thus giving us more of an effect from the GH were taking. Adding T4 into our GH cycles will actually allow more of the GH to be used effectively! 

Remember, the thing that catalyzes the conversion process is the deiodinase enzyme. This is also why using low amounts of T3 would seem (again, anecdotally in bodybuilders) to be able to slightly increase protein synthesis and have an anabolic effect  they arent using enough to tell the body to stop or slow down production of the deiodinase enzyme, and hence .Although this analogy isnt perfect, think of GH as a supercharger you have attached to your carif you dont provide enough fuel for it to burn at its increased output level, you arent going to derive the full effects. Thyroid status also may influence IGF-I expression in tissues other than the liver.So what we have here is a problem. When we take GH, it lowers T3 levelsbut we need T3 to keep our GH receptor levels optimally upregulated. In addition, its suspected that many of GHs anabolic effects are engendered as a result of production of IGF-1, so keeping our IGF receptors upregulated by maintaining adequate levels of T3 seems prudent. But as weve just seen, supplementing T3 with our GH will abolish Growth Hormones functional hepatic nitrogen clearance, possibly through the effect of reducing the bioavailability of insulin-like growth factor-I (12.) 

So we want elevated T3 levels when we take GH, or we wont be getting ANYWHERE NEAR the full anabolic effect of our injectable GH without enough T3. And now we know that not only do we need the additional T3, but we actually want the CONVERSION process of T4 into T3 to take place, because its the presence of those mediator enzymes that will allow the T3 to be synergistic with GH, instead of being inhibitory as is seen when T3 is simply added to a GH cycle. And remember, we dont only want T3 levels high, but we want types 1 and 2 deiodinase to get us there- and when we take supplemental T3, that just doesnt happenall that happens is the type 3 deiodinase enzyme shows up and negates the beneficial effects of the T3 when we combine it with GH.

And thats where myself and Dr. Daemon ended up, after a week of e-mails, researching studies, and gathering clues. 

If youve been using GH without T4, youve been wasting half your money  and if youve been using it with T3, youve been wasting your time. Start using T4 with your GH, and youll finally be getting the full results from your investment.

References:

Growth Factors. 1990;2(2-3):99-109.Interaction of TSH, insulin and insulin-like growth factors in regulating thyroid growth and function. Eggo MC, Bachrach LK, Burrow GN.

F, Rumpler M, Klaushofer K 1994 Thyroid hormones increase insulin-like growth factor mRNA levels in the clonal osteoblastic cell line MC3T3- E1. FEBS Lett 345: 6770

Relationship of the rate of transcription to the level of nuclear thyroid hormone-receptor complexes.J Biol Chem. 1984 May 25;259(10):6284-91. Yaffe BM, Samuels HH.

Thyroid morphology and function in adults with untreated isolated growth hormone deficiency. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2006 Mar;91(3):860-4. Epub 2006 Jan 4. 

Eur J Endocrinol.1995 Dec;133(6):646-53.Influence of thyroid hormones on the regulation of growth hormone secretion. Giustina A, Wehrenberg WB.

Binoux M, Faivre-Bauman A, Lassarre C, Tixier-Vidal A 1985 Triiodothyronine stimulates the production of insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) by fetal hypothalamus cells cultured in serum free medium. Dev Brain Res 21:319323

Eur J Endocrinol. 1996 May;134(5):563-7.Insulin-like growth factor I alters peripheral thyroid hormone metabolism in humans: comparison with growth hormone.Hussain MA, Schmitz O, Jorgensen JO, Christiansen JS, Weeke J, Schmid C, Froesch ER

Harakawa S, Yamashita S, Tobinaga T, Matsuo K, Hirayu H, Izumi M, Nagataki S, Melmed S. In vivo regulation of hepatic insulin-like growth factor-1 messenger ribonucleic acids with thyroid hormone. Endocrinol Jpn 37(2):205-11, 1990

Hochberg Z, Bick T, Harel Z Alterations of human growth hormone binding by rat liver membranes during hypo- and hyperthyroidism. Endocrinology 126(1):325-9, 1990

Matsuo K, Yamashita S, Niwa M, Kurihara M, Harakawa S, Izumi M, Nagataki S, Melmed S Thyroid hormone regulates rat pituitary insulin-like growth factor-I receptors. Endocrinology 126(1):550-4, 1990

The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 88, No. 11 5221-5226, 2003. High Dose Growth Hormone Exerts an Anabolic Effect at Rest and during Exercise in Endurance-Trained Athletes M. L. Healy, J. Gibney, D. L. Russell-Jones, C. Pentecost, P. Croos, P. H. Sönksen and A. M. Umpleby

J Hepatol. 1996 Mar;24(3):313-9. Effects of long-term growth hormone (GH) and triiodothyronine (T3) administration on functional hepatic nitrogen clearance in normal man.Wolthers T, Grofte T, Moller N, Vilstrup H, Jorgensen JO

Huang, SA. Physiology and pathophysiology of type 3 deiodinase in humans. Thyroid. 2005 Aug;15(8):875-81. Review.

Hernandez. A. Structure and function of the type 3 deiodinase gene.Thyroid. 2005 Aug;15(8):865-74. Review.

F, Rumpler M, Klaushofer K 1994 Thyroid hormones increase insulin-like growth factor mRNA levels in the clonal osteoblastic cell line MC3T3- E1. FEBS Lett 345: 6770

----------


## Matt

> Here they are.....
> 
>  
> 
> ~Haz~


Good job Haz, you really are cutting up nice whilst maintaining size.....

----------


## babyface770

Well this is my second day of hitting 5IU , for some reason I feel I'm doing something wrong and its depressing me

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## Xtralarg

> Well this is my second day of hitting 5IU , for some reason I feel I'm doing something wrong and its depressing me


Why do you feel like that?

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## babyface770

I really don't know 

I hit before I slept and then another hit at 5am , I don't know I feel weird maybe because I feel no difference , I know it takes months to see the effects

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## Xtralarg

Maybe you are expecting too much too soon?

It definitely wont be the fault of the gh, if anything it should elivate your mood. 

Stay focussed and patient, good things will happen in time.

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## BJJ

Ok this is what heppened to me in the last two days.

Day 1:
took 100 mcg of T4 around 11 pm on an empty stomach and went to sleep 45' after that.
Result: I was awake all the night long, I fell asleep around 7 am!!!

Day 2:
took 100 mcg of T4 around 5:30 am together with my hgh injection of 5 iu.
Result: I could not fall asleep again and was awake till I stood up!!!

So, do I better splitting the dose in half taking it before bed and early in the morning (50/50)?
Or, do I better taking 100 mcg sometime during the day?

Thank you.

----------


## BJJ

Way to go Haz...

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## Xtralarg

> Ok this is what heppened to me in the last two days.
> 
> Day 1:
> took 100 mcg of T4 around 11 pm on an empty stomach and went to sleep 45' after that.
> Result: I was awake all the night long, I fell asleep around 7 am!!!
> 
> Day 2:
> took 100 mcg of T4 around 5:30 am together with my hgh injection of 5 iu.
> Result: I could not fall asleep again and was awake till I stood up!!!
> ...



Sorry to hear that you cant sleep with the t4 inside you!

I have only suffered like that on high doses.

I think I would try to have it during the day on empty stomach i.e between meals, I dont see any good reason to slpit it as its half life is around 7 days.

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## Xtralarg

Yes excellent work Haz, you look really tight.

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## BJJ

> Sorry to hear that you cant sleep with the t4 inside you!
> 
> I have only suffered like that on high doses.
> 
> I think I would try to have it during the day on empty stomach i.e between meals, I dont see any good reason to slpit it as its half life is around 7 days.


I thought about splitting because when using only 50 mcg I could sleep...

I think anyway your suggestion is the most appropriate.
I will have to find a day time and stick with it.

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## P3rf3ctionist

Hey people, an immensely informative thread, great job.

I've been monitoring this thread since its inception but only now have I decided to take the plunge and contribute my experience.

A bit about me:
Age: 24
Height: 6'2
Weight: 220lbs
Training Experience: 3.8 years
hGH: GTROPIN 800ius 

My experience with hGH commenced approximately six weeks ago, started at the low 2iu dose and increased gradually to my desired maintenance dose of 4ius. I usually take it in morning around 7am and immediately go back to sleep for a couple of hours before waking up later in the morning. I'm doing a 3 on 1 off 2 on 1 off schedule of injecting, so far so good, went into the cycle with the aim of gradually losing BF% whilst making diet my primary tool against fat loss and hGH secondary combined with my resistance training. In terms of side effects, I've experienced all the text book symptoms of joint and hand pain at low doses. 

*RESULTS:*
So far my results have exceeded expectation, over the past six weeks, with the use of hGH and a strict diet my BF% has decreased by 5% whilst my strength has relatively stayed the same. I've not done much in terms of treadmill cardiovascular exercise, instead i've incorporated two sessions of intense circuit training a week which I've made to mimmic HIIT.

*FUTURE GOALS:*
Aim is to maintain the 4iu dose and continue dieting down all the way till the end of August where I intend to commence an AAS cycle. Will use hGH and AAS together and increases my hGH dose from 4ius to 6ius throughout the AAS cycle. It will be a 10 week cycle so intend to use 300ius. More on this closer to the time.

*My questions/concerns so far* 
I read the Anthony Roberts article on use of T4 with hGH when I first started my hGH, but wasn't entirely convinced about his credentials as an authority on such a topic. So I want to hear individuals personal experience they've had on this issue. Also I intend to use T4 in conjunction with my AAS + hGH cycle in September so would using it now with out any AAS use at the moment be a good move? Wouldn't it result in too much suppression if I started using T4 now and continued its use into my AAS cycle which would mean I would be on T4 for five months? Would muscle loss be greater at the moment if I started using T4s?

Thanks for your help and will keep this thread updated.

----------


## BJJ

> Hey people, an immensely informative thread, great job.
> 
> I've been monitoring this thread since its inception but only now have I decided to take the plunge and contribute my experience.
> 
> A bit about me:
> Age: 24
> Height: 6'2
> Weight: 220lbs
> Training Experience: 3.8 years
> ...


Thanks for sharing your experience. Your username makes sense on you...  :Wink/Grin: 

Regarding T4, I advise you to get a blood work done before start using it but I do recommend you to incorporate it as soon as possible.

I was on HGH for a month without T4.
Once I started to take 50 mcg ed, I noticed a remarkable improvement.

If it is too much 5 months on T4 I do not know, but I am sure XL is going to answer your question with his usual seriousness.

----------


## babyface770

> Maybe you are expecting too much too soon?
> 
> It definitely wont be the fault of the gh, if anything it should elivate your mood. 
> 
> Stay focussed and patient, good things will happen in time.


maybe thats it , i hope it all unfolds soon , iv been reading the thread and everyone seems to be taking 5IU at one shot why am i taking it twice ?


another thing can i post a picture of my t4 pills or is it against the rules and regulations ?

----------


## Hazard

> Thats one hell of a cock on you Haz


thanks  :Wink/Grin: 

I'm quite proud.....

~Haz~

----------


## paddy155

I notice that most user's of hgh use a typical dose of 8iu-10iu daily for 6 month's minimal for gaining muscle mass. I then began to research around other board's etc and found that some user's have had great success using a blast protocol with gh. I think the idea is that you basically blast for one week of every month. You take what you would typically take in a month's dosage in one week and the allow your body to rest before blasting again.
Would like to know your thoughts on this.

----------


## BJJ

> I notice that most user's of hgh use a typical dose of 8iu-10iu daily for 6 month's minimal for gaining muscle mass. I then began to research around other board's etc and found that some user's have had great success using a blast protocol with gh. I think the idea is that you basically blast for one week of every month. You take what you would typically take in a month's dosage in one week and the allow your body to rest before blasting again.
> Would like to know your thoughts on this.


Well, considering that the human's liver has a little capability to raise IGF-1 levels, I think that idea is deceptive.

----------


## paddy155

Copied from another board.

I have never bought into the effects of gh

not for lipotrophc effect, but for the growth effect. due to a post ive recently c+p about satellite cells, igf and the need for anabolics and androgens being of primary importance.

but..
i also dont agree with this 2ius, 4ius 8,ius before bed, eod, every training day,
i simply cant see how the body is going to fully utilize the powerful hormone (secondary only to insulin ) in such small doses.

con and i have spoken on when we increased out doseage, over small time frames, ie. 3 days a week not ed, we noticed alot more growth.

i likened this to that of puberty, when they bodys can grow both skeletal muscle mass , bone growth and in fact its WHOLE self by upto 5-7%. Now this is a huge "spurt" hence the name.
some children gaining 14lbs in musculaR weight, shedding that puppy fat AND GROWING UPTO 5".

Now wev all said "oh juniour will shed that puppy fat when he has a growth spurt!"
"oh hell fill out once hes had a growth spurt!"

Do you see? these children are shedding 10-30lbs, changing whole body shapes via just their pulses of gh.
now why in gods name dont bodybuilderd want this same result.

Iv healed a bicep tear in 4 weeks meant for 4 months thru supraphysiological spurts of gh.
had clients shed 5st and build i eastimate 14 lbs of lean tissue in 5 months.

trick is it was based on GH plasma levels of growing children where huge spurts of growth were noticed but only 4-5 per days per month

i will site some research at a later date as i know many on here love to smash down a principle without trying it but..

ive found that taking 25-40 ius for 5-7 days a month produces some very very NOTICEABLE results right from the start.
debunking this myth..gh needs to be stayed on for 6 months first. please tell me where on earth such a powerful hormone needs so long to exhibit fat burning properties die to lipotrophic action or the spilitting and harvesting of new satellite cells. , recovery? i find this ludicrous.
i notice recovery, fat loss in days.

ive run gh this way
month 1. week 1. 24ius days 1,2,3 40ius day 4,5. then nothing but aas and androgens till the next start of the month.
i also believe biohazards paul borresson found similar results but ive been noted on here saying the puberty example since 2001 at uni.

many wil scream.. WAY TOO HIGH.
but if uve got the guts to try it, you find your gains in skeletal mass, and lowering of bf massive.
this is how i beleive it best to run with insulin allowing the user to not hammer his body with exo compounds and risk blunting his own production.

blast cruise in any respect is better for the body as u then allow it to align the carious metabolic processes and other hormonal systems to accomodate the new tissue.

----------


## BJJ

^^^
How would you tolerate the sides?

----------


## paddy155

well,that is what I was thinking. The guy's who are using this protocol don't seem to get the side's as severe as other's so it may be an individual thing and I think they are somewhat more advanced in the use of gh.
I am a newbie to gh so I can only go by the feedback of others as I have no experience with it.
As this is my main forum for bodybuilding I also browse a few others and I browse a uk site now and again,as I am from there and the guy who put up the protocol began to get a mention on p,muscle and md,so it must have got people talking.
As far as I believe it is not a new protocol for gh but he has brought it back to light and has had great success from it and from the feedback of other's.
I guess it is somewhat a trial and error thing and obvisouly everyone is different. Just trying to get different idea's for when I emabark on my journey with gh.

----------


## BJJ

> well,that is what I was thinking. The guy's who are using this protocol don't seem to get the side's as severe as other's so it may be an individual thing and I think they are somewhat more advanced in the use of gh.
> I am a newbie to gh so I can only go by the feedback of others as I have no experience with it.
> As this is my main forum for bodybuilding I also browse a few others and I browse a uk site now and again,as I am from there and the guy who put up the protocol began to get a mention on p,muscle and md,so it must have got people talking.
> As far as I believe it is not a new protocol for gh but he has brought it back to light and has had great success from it and from the feedback of other's.
> I guess it is somewhat a trial and error thing and obvisouly everyone is different. Just trying to get different idea's for when I emabark on my journey with gh.


I appreciate your efforts.
I would wait for those experienced to chime in.
I am also very interested in their opinions.

----------


## bjpennnn

> I thought about splitting because when using only 50 mcg I could sleep...
> 
> I think anyway your suggestion is the most appropriate.
> I will have to find a day time and stick with it.


I took my t4 at night b4 i went to bed. no sleep problems or anything

----------


## babyface770

> I thought about splitting because when using only 50 mcg I could sleep...
> 
> I think anyway your suggestion is the most appropriate.
> I will have to find a day time and stick with it.


bro. i thought of something today , i started taking animal pump the same time around i started using GH , could my water bloat be from the Ceratine that is in the animal pump pills or it wont be that severe ?


cause my water bloat is like woah !!  :Hmmmm:  ... when i first started to use GH my belly and chest were really bloated then my ankle was bloated but now everything is almost gone except for my face that looks like a watermelon my cheeks are gonna explode  :Smilie:  but again could it be ceratine ?

----------


## marcus300

> thanks 
> 
> I'm quite proud.....
> 
> ~Haz~


Joking apart, you look really good and your making huge progress fast! well done

----------


## Hazard

> Joking apart, you look really good and your making huge progress fast! well done


Thanks big guy! 

I'm still 240..... Think i've added a bit of muscle before I started cutting. I can't wait till I get sub 10%..... I'm trying but cardio sucks big bollocks.....

~Haz~

----------


## BJJ

> bro. i thought of something today , i started taking animal pump the same time around i started using GH , could my water bloat be from the Ceratine that is in the animal pump pills or it wont be that severe ?
> 
> 
> cause my water bloat is like woah !!  ... when i first started to use GH my belly and chest were really bloated then my ankle was bloated but now everything is almost gone except for my face that looks like a watermelon my cheeks are gonna explode  but again could it be ceratine ?


I do not think so since you get less than 2.5 g of creatine with animal pump.

The point to me is not if the bloat comes from creatine or not but the fact you are using creatine.
Why? you are taking somatropin and it is more than enough unless you want to stack it with aas.
What do you need creatine for?

----------


## BJJ

> Thanks big guy! 
> 
> I'm still 240..... Think i've added a bit of muscle before I started cutting. I can't wait till I get sub 10%..... I'm trying but cardio sucks big bollocks.....
> 
> ~Haz~


Hazard, how tall are you?

----------


## babyface770

> I do not think so since you get less than 2.5 g of creatine with animal pump.
> 
> The point to me is not if the bloat comes from creatine or not but the fact you are using creatine.
> Why? you are taking somatropin and it is more than enough unless you want to stack it with aas.
> What do you need creatine for?


its not that im just taking creatine , im on animal pump that contains a lot of other stuff including ceratine , but anyways if you suggest i drop it then so be it 


yeah stacking it with test prop (week 6) EOD

----------


## Hazard

> Hazard, how tall are you?


6'1

~Haz~

----------


## jason8455

Want to start off with saying thank you XL for this amazing thread. So many ideas for hgh protocols and even insulin !

I recently posted a question on my HGH dosing and had a reply that was very helpfull and have started doing that but wanted to mention it again as so many people are involved with this discusion, maybe there are some mroe ideas!

I recently bumped up to 5iu's 5/2 from 4iu's 5/2 but my question was if I wanted to get in a littler more GH withought it running out too fast should I bump up the 5iu's or maybe 6/1? The answer prior was keep it at 5iu but add 1 more day.

Also had a timing question.. I see a lot of people saying to keep you injection an hour away from food so your sugar levels don't rise and what not but I was reading where NotSmall does 10iu's GH and 10iu's Slin PW.

I often cycle Slin and wanted to give this a go but was curious why the idea of keeping GH away from food does not matter for this time?

Hope that makes since... Often get too excited with this stuff and things run on!  :Aajack:

----------


## BJJ

> its not that im just taking creatine , im on animal pump that contains a lot of other stuff including ceratine , but anyways if you suggest i drop it then so be it 
> 
> 
> yeah stacking it with test prop (week 6) EOD


HGH + Test Prop + Whole Food (the right one) + BCAA + Glutamine + Water (enough but not too much).
That is all you need, IMO.

----------


## P3rf3ctionist

> 6'1
> 
> ~Haz~


Hey Haz, at the beginning of this page you mentioned you were combining your hGH use with T3, if you don't mind me asking, are you using any AAS?

----------


## P3rf3ctionist

> Thanks for sharing your experience. Your username makes sense on you... 
> 
> Regarding T4, I advise you to get a blood work done before start using it but I do recommend you to incorporate it as soon as possible.
> 
> I was on HGH for a month without T4.
> Once I started to take 50 mcg ed, I noticed a remarkable improvement.
> 
> If it is too much 5 months on T4 I do not know, but I am sure XL is going to answer your question with his usual seriousness.


Hey BJJ, I'm intending to go in to see my doc tomorrow and will ask my for my thyroid hormone levels checked, my only two major conearns with incorportating T4 at this stage would be:
1) Muscle loss
2) I'm seeing great results so far without the T4, so as the saying goes why fix something that isn't broken 

However, if I can accelerate the process by using T4 I'd love that too.

...and thanks for the welcome.

----------


## babyface770

> HGH + Test Prop + Whole Food (the right one) + BCAA + Glutamine + Water (enough but not too much).
> That is all you need, IMO.


Well I take 3 pills of amino before practice and r after and my protien contains 10 grams of BCAA's 

Is that enough ?

----------


## BJJ

> Hey BJJ, I'm intending to go in to see my doc tomorrow and will ask my for my thyroid hormone levels checked, my only two major conearns with incorportating T4 at this stage would be:
> 1) Muscle loss
> 2) I'm seeing great results so far without the T4, so as the saying goes why fix something that isn't broken 
> 
> However, if I can accelerate the process by using T4 I'd love that too.
> 
> ...and thanks for the welcome.


Your concern about LBM loss can be only theorized, in reality I am keeping all of my muscles. If you had taken T3, then the speech would be different.

The fact you obtained great results so far does not mean you cannot improve them.

----------


## BJJ

> Well I take 3 pills of amino before practice and r after and my protien contains 10 grams of BCAA's 
> 
> Is that enough ?


I take 2 g every 10 kg of body weight.

----------


## babyface770

> I take 2 g every 10 kg of body weight.



Ummmmmm calculating this is a pickle

----------


## BJJ

> Ummmmmm calculating this is a pickle


Ok then, its 2 g each 22 lbs.

So, if you weight 220 lbs, you want to ingest 20 g.

However, I know a few BBs (real ones not like me) who ingest 3 g each 10 kg.

Like everything else, it is a personal choice based on your results and experience.

----------


## The Gladiator 911

Before and after pics would be good.

----------


## babyface770

> Ok then, its 2 g each 22 lbs.
> 
> So, if you weight 220 lbs, you want to ingest 20 g.
> 
> However, I know a few BBs (real ones not like me) who ingest 3 g each 10 kg.
> 
> Like everything else, it is a personal choice based on your results and experience.



Ok thanks I did the calculation and it rounds up to 15 grams per day .. So basically from my (gold standard ON protien) I intake 11 grams post workout and 11 grams before I go to bed


Is that decent ?

----------


## BJJ

> Ok thanks I did the calculation and it rounds up to 15 grams per day .. So basically from my (gold standard ON protien) I intake 11 grams post workout and 11 grams before I go to bed
> 
> 
> Is that decent ?


What are your stats?

PS
I do not know if XL wants to derail the thread... once in a while.
In case ask him, we can still "talk" via PM.

----------


## Xtralarg

Its ok to go off on a tangent, carry on.

I am waiting for notsmall to give his thoughts on the HGH blast cycles as he is planning on doing one within the next few weeks.

With regards to the T4 supression question - Speaking from a personal point of view and from personal experiences long term use of T4 has not caused me any supression. I know this because I have my bloods done. I have run T4 for 6 months+ in the past and have had no problem recovering. This is not a gurantee that it can not or indeed will not cause some form of supression to other individuals and it always wise to get bloods done at regular intervals so you know exactly what is going on inside you.

----------


## Hazard

> Hey Haz, at the beginning of this page you mentioned you were combining your hGH use with T3, if you don't mind me asking, are you using any AAS?


Yep.....

Currently on 750mg's Test E and 2mg's Methyl Tren /day

~Haz~

----------


## NotSmall

> I am waiting for notsmall to give his thoughts on the HGH blast cycles as he is planning on doing one within the next few weeks.


lol Funny you should say that...

The 4 weeks blast I was intending to run was based around the addition of slin, PEG MGF and some stout doses of AAS with a slightly higher dose of GH than my normal 10iu ed rather than these mega doses of GH over 5 days... HOWEVER having read the post that paddy copied and pasted from another board I got intrigued and went to the other board and starting reading the thread it originated from - long story short (too late, I know lol) - I am running 40ius ed for 5 days starting today with just 100mg prop ed.

----------


## Hazard

> lol Funny you should say that...
> 
> The 4 weeks blast I was intending to run was based around the addition of slin, PEG MGF and some stout doses of AAS with a slightly higher dose of GH than my normal 10iu ed rather than these mega doses of GH over 5 days... HOWEVER having read the post that paddy copied and pasted from another board I got intrigued and went to the other board and starting reading the thread it originated from - long story short (too late, I know lol) - I am running 40ius ed for 5 days starting today with just 100mg prop ed.


holy fvckin shit...... 

are you doing 5 days at 40iu's and then the rest of the month at 10iu's?

~Haz~

----------


## NotSmall

> holy fvckin shit...... 
> 
> are you doing 5 days at 40iu's and then the rest of the month at 10iu's?
> 
> ~Haz~


Yup thats the plan  :Big Grin:

----------


## Hazard

> Yup thats the plan


You guys give me too many ideas.....

I'll be checkin this thread for your findings lol

~Haz~

----------


## paddy155

> lol Funny you should say that...
> 
> The 4 weeks blast I was intending to run was based around the addition of slin, PEG MGF and some stout doses of AAS with a slightly higher dose of GH than my normal 10iu ed rather than these mega doses of GH over 5 days... HOWEVER having read the post that paddy copied and pasted from another board I got intrigued and went to the other board and starting reading the thread it originated from - long story short (too late, I know lol) - I am running 40ius ed for 5 days starting today with just 100mg prop ed.


Glad you read it mate. Obvisouly their will be mixed debate if it work's or not and the only way to tell is to try it. The result's that user's have had is gain's in a matter of week's rather that month's.

----------


## NotSmall

> Glad you read it mate. Obvisouly their will be mixed debate if it work's or not and the only way to tell is to try it. The result's that user's have had is gain's in a matter of week's rather that month's.


Thanks for posting it bud - am always up for trying new ideas - we could reason back and forth all day as to whether it will work or not - easier to just do it!

----------


## paddy155

I think it would be ideall for someone like myself who has no experience with gh to try it. Obvisouly I will do a lot of research before hand and the time is not quite right just now as I have much learning to do with it but when the time is right I will prob create a log for my progress.

----------


## anth777

hi can any body help me i am new to hgh been on it for about 9 days but my nipples are sore should this be happing or is it a copie and just hcg

----------


## marcus300

> lol Funny you should say that...
> 
> The 4 weeks blast I was intending to run was based around the addition of slin, PEG MGF and some stout doses of AAS with a slightly higher dose of GH than my normal 10iu ed rather than these mega doses of GH over 5 days... HOWEVER having read the post that paddy copied and pasted from another board I got intrigued and went to the other board and starting reading the thread it originated from - long story short (too late, I know lol) - I am running 40ius ed for 5 days starting today with just 100mg prop ed.


Sounds exciting NS, I love the whole idea around blast cycle no matter what the compound lol, ive experiemnted many times with super dosages of AAS but Ive never used anything like 40ius of gh. I love blast cycle and respond great to them.

I remember reading 2 articles though one was an interview with Ali Amini the Gulf's no1 nutrition and trainer and he stated that the liver is only capable of utilising so much growth hormones at one time that's why our bodies release it in burst's if i remember right I think the most it can use without wastage is 4 ius at one time, I am sure I stored this interview I will have to have a look for it. 

Does anyone know the exact amount the liver can utilise in one time?

----------


## NotSmall

> Sounds exciting NS, I love the whole idea around blast cycle no matter what the compound lol, ive experiemnted many times with super dosages of AAS but Ive never used anything like 40ius of gh. I love blast cycle and respond great to them.
> 
> I remember reading 2 articles though one was an interview with Ali Amini the Gulf's no1 nutrition and trainer and he stated that the liver is only capable of utilising so much growth hormones at one time that's why our bodies release it in burst's if i remember right I think the most it can use without wastage is 4 ius at one time, I am sure I stored this interview I will have to have a look for it. 
> 
> Does anyone know the exact amount the liver can utilise in one time?


Mate get over there and read the thread - you will want to give it a go I betcha!

----------


## Xtralarg

> hi can any body help me i am new to hgh been on it for about 9 days but my nipples are sore should this be happing or is it a copie and just hcg


Have you tried doing a pregnancy test on the reconstituted hGH?

----------


## Xtralarg

> Does anyone know the exact amount the liver can utilise in one time?


This is a very important question, I have read somewhere that it is something like 5iu's but im not 100% sure. One thing we have to take into consideration when thinking about this and calculating the answer is the rate of absorbtion varies depending on the method of administration. IV shots will be absorbed in approx 30 mins whilst sub-q shots are absorbed over roughly a 3 hour period.

----------


## marcus300

> This is a very important question, I have read somewhere that it is something like 5iu's but im not 100% sure. One thing we have to take into consideration when thinking about this and calculating the answer is the rate of absorbtion varies depending on the method of administration. IV shots will be absorbed in approx 30 mins whilst sub-q shots are absorbed over roughly a 3 hour period.


I have read the liver can only utilise around 4ius at one time, the injection method wouldnt matter its how much you are injecting at that time weather sub-q, IM or IM thats how I understood it.

I will try and find the interview and post it and also try and find a study to support what he said, trouble with studies is you find one saying one thing and then you find another saying the oppersite, Id prefer to go off personal experience but the results are that slow with gh you wouldnt know if you are wasting any if you was shooting higher dose.

----------


## Xtralarg

> I have read the liver can only utilise around 4ius at one time, the injection method wouldnt matter its how much you are injecting at that time weather sub-q, IM or IM thats how I understood it.


I hear what you are saying but the difference in the absorbtion rate will affect the bioavailability. If you administer IV then your body has approx 30mins to use what you injected, whereas if you shoot sub-q the absorbtion is much slower over a 3 hour period and therefore will allow a larger ammount to be utilised.

----------


## marcus300

> I hear what you are saying but the difference in the absorbtion rate will affect the bioavailability. If you administer IV then your body has approx 30mins to use what you injected, whereas if you shoot sub-q the absorbtion is much slower over a 3 hour period and therefore will allow a larger ammount to be utilised.


Do you have any studies on how much the liver can utilise at one time, we know gh peaks around the 3 hour mark and the different injection absorbtion times but finding studies on how much the liver can utilise would be good to read.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Do you have any studies on how much the liver can utilise at one time, we know gh peaks around the 3 hour mark and the different injection absorbtion times but finding studies on how much the liver can utilise would be good to read.


The studies I have read which have touched upon this subject have stated that there is no difinitive answer as the ammounts that can be utilised are determined by body weight and are usually for adults with GHD. These studies state that the optimal ammount to be administered is 0.07iu per kg of boby weight. Although this may not be directly relevant to what we are discussing some aspects of their studies do bare some relevance. They administer the shot just before bedtime and all at once, this results in shots of 9iu's + for people who are the same size as me. 

Although this does not directly answer your question I feel that certain inferences can be drawn which are relevant. I do think your right though Marcus

----------


## marcus300

> The studies I have read which have touched upon this subject have stated that there is no difinitive answer as the ammounts that can be utilised are determined by body weight and are usually for adults with GHD. These studies state that the optimal ammount to be administered is 0.07iu per kg of boby weight. Although this may not be directly relevant to what we are discussing some aspects of their studies do bare some relevance. They administer the shot just before bedtime and all at once, this results in shots of 9iu's + for people who are the same size as me. 
> 
> Although this does not directly answer your question I feel that certain inferences can be drawn which are relevant.I do think your right though Marcus


The half life doesnt change but the absortion rate does depending on whcih injection protocol you use: Here is the interview with Ali Amini:

This isnt the full interview

GH can work well for bodybuilders as shown in those who use it at optimal dosages. Surely if it is used by all professional bodybuilders it must have much merit.I know smart bodybuilders never do over 8 IU (International Units) a day, but, in some cases, I have heard of others doing 24 IU a day and even some non-pros, less then 150 lbs, who use 24 IU a day. This results in bloating because of all the water retention caused by that dose. 

So what is the optimal dose of GH one should take to attain its benefits? Ali: "To get the full effect of GH, timing and amount are crucial. Needless to say, period taken and consistency is more important than the total amount, as taking a 200 IU kit of GH over 50 days (at 4 IU a day) is more efficient than taking the same 200 IU over a period of 25 days (at 8 IU a day)." 

As is clear from what Ali has said, GH used in conjunction with anabolic steroids is the most effective form of administration. It is known to work, but how? What exactly does GH do and what are its positive effects? GH diverts calories in food towards protein synthesis and away from fat synthesis as demonstrated in animal tests. It is as powerful as testosterone in stimulating protein synthesis properties. 

And how long does GH have to exert its anabolic effects? "GH", Says Ali, "has a half-life of 15 to 20 minutes after sub-q (subcutaneous) or intravenous injection. After that, blood concentrations of GH reach their peak between one and three hours after injection." So once the optimal dosage of GH and the potential benefits have been decided, how can it be administrated timing-wise?

A lot of theories and speculation have made about the best way to administrate GH," says Ali. "The most reasonable way would be decided after one gained an understanding of how GH is produced in the body, how it interacts with other hormones and under which circumstances it converts best to IGF-1. IGF-1 production is regulated by factors other than GH, most notably nutritional and thyroid status. But when GH is released it goes to the liver to stimulate a set of Growth Factors, and IGF-1 happens to be the best known of these. 

"IGF-1 is a 70 amino acid single chain hormone that has been shown to be the most potent derivative (caused by GH release or administration) of GH," continues Ali. "GH is a hormone that works back to back with insulin so the lower the insulin, the more GH the pituitary gland produces, and thus there will be a better environment for GH to work. 

Some speculations recommend taking GH at any time because they say what I just mentioned is applicable for the GH produced by the pituitary and not that externally administrated. However, the body produces GH in those conditions because it is the best time for it, sequentially leading it to function at its maximum potential. The main benefit of GH is its action on the liver to produce IGF-1," says Ali. "So, for this matter, it is important to know the capability of the liver in terms of how much GH it can use to get the maximum result/benefit. The liver can work with three to four IU of GH at a time and can do that twice a day with a reasonable gap of five to seven hours. 

Therefore, the best dose would be a total six to eight IU a day divided into two doses and having those five to seven hours apart. For example, a dose (either three or four IU) can be taken post training with another three to four IU dose before bed or during the night sleeping period." 

Clearly, as with any anabolic agent, there is an optimal dosage, but it has not been clearly documented as to what would occur if one took too little or too much GH. If one took below the recommended IU of six to eight per day of GH, as Ali recommends, what effects, if any, could they experience? If a bodybuilder took, for example, 2 IU, what effect would this have? 

What I recommend," says Ali, "is aligned with the capability of the body to use GH at maximum doses to produce maximum effect. However, taking less will definitely work and the gains will be noticed, just not at full potential (the body's full capability of occupying GH and employing it). Conversely, what would be likely to happen if that same person took well over the recommended amount? If they took, for example, 20 to 25 IU what could happen? 

"Nothing dramatic," says Ali. "Just some water retention side effects, in a case where the subject abusing GH is not suffering from any kind of disease. But if you understand how GH works in the body and how the body utilizes it, it will become pretty obvious how, when and how much you should take.Needless to say, trying to make GH use more constant for a longer period of time will result in more gains and make it much more cost efficient, as the legitimate form of it is still not cheap."

----------


## Xtralarg

We have to come to the conclusion that studies contradict eachother and that we have to draw our own conclusions from them, this is exactly why i decided to start this type of thread so that we can all share our own experiences and knowledge, great insight Marcus.

----------


## marcus300

> We have to come to the conclusion that studies contradict eachother and that we have to draw our own conclusions from them, this is exactly why i decided to start this type of thread so that we can all share our own experiences and knowledge, great insight Marcus.


Thanks :Smilie: , Ive seen that many studies what contradict each other over the years, makes you think if you can trust any of them

----------


## marcus300

> Mate get over there and read the thread - you will want to give it a go I betcha!


I will wait till I hear from you first on this one :Smilie:  

Please keep me update NS

----------


## mperk

Hey Broskis;
Hope this doesn't lead you all to an eye rolling but....
I just got my ND blue tops and i dont know how much Bac water to add and what the concentration will be to get 2.5 and 5 iu's ed.

From reading the thread and a few others, i have concluded that I'll start w/ 2.5ius for a few weeks and go up from there. And i'll get some T4 (100mg ed) to go with (too bad it's not T3 'cause I already have that...)

Stats:
I'm (fukkin) 50, 204lbs, 6'-2 and doing my 3rd cycle (600 Test E ew; 50 Mast eod and deca 135 3x/wk) Only have 5 weeks left in the cycle so may not get the T4 in time.
In the last 4 years I've gone from 210 27% to 185 10% to 204 12% Goal is to get to 210 6% but I think I'll have to get up to 225 to diet down to 6% (BTW Recent pics - bloated to 211! in these due to some meds i was taking..now down to 204.)




*
QUESTIONS:
How much water ido i add in the tiny vial?
What will equal 5ius?
Should I wait for the T4 or just start off now?
How long is it safe to run the T4 w/o fukking up my thyroid?*



Thanks bros!

----------


## NotSmall

> I will wait till I hear from you first on this one 
> 
> Please keep me update NS


Well its day 2, did 35ius yesterday and have done 20ius so far today - nothing dramatic to report yet!

From the reading I've done over there basically the idea is to force the body to create new cells so the benefits of one of these blasts really manifests over the following weeks as you mature these cells - ideally with AAS.

I am going to do this run followed by 3 weeks of just prop and my normal dose of 10ius ed then I will run another GH blast at the start of my 4 week prop, tren , winstrol , slin, PEG MGF cycle.

----------


## kemically enhanced

hi everyone im new here and was wondering if anyone can assist me with my question about ghrp 6 as ive been researching it for a little while now and was wondering if this peptide is detectable in a urine test or what types of drug tests can be performed to verify usage,is it detectable? aslo i have researched that its half life is bout 55 mins but how long is it detectable in your system? thanks

----------


## Chev

Hey Hazard, if you dont mind me asking... how much cardio you doing per day and what do you normally do? Looking good man.

----------


## Hazard

> Hey Hazard, if you dont mind me asking... how much cardio you doing per day and what do you normally do? Looking good man.


 
Right now just doing cardio 3 days a week.....

usually PWO.... 20 minutes on a treadmill and then 30 minutes on a machine that crosses a stair stepper with an elliptical.

~Haz~

----------


## Xtralarg

> *
> QUESTIONS:
> How much water ido i add in the tiny vial?
> What will equal 5ius?
> Should I wait for the T4 or just start off now?
> How long is it safe to run the T4 w/o fukking up my thyroid?*


How many iu's are in each vial? If it is 10 then ad 1ml of water then each 0.1ml will equal 1iu.

I would wait till you have the T4.

I have run T4 for 6 months + and have never had any problems whatsoever recovering, in addition I have never known anyone to permanently suppress their thyroid by taking T4.

----------


## P3rf3ctionist

> ....


Thanks for the reply earlier on Xtralarg, I've continued reading around the area on pubmed and its likes and every study I have seen regarding administration of exogenous hGH does state a positive correlation between hGH use and a decrease in thyroid activity, so I've booked in for a complete blood work but the only earliest slot available is 14th of July, do you reckon in your experience I should begin the T4 and once I get the blood works depending on the results adjust the usage of T4 then?

Also a side note, I did mention I would be using AAS in September but due to college/university commitments which begin in October I've decided to bring forward my cycle and now I'll most probably start it on August 2nd and intend to cycle for 10 weeks. 

If anybody would like to critique my proposed cycle please do so:
Week 1-10: Testosterone Enthanate 500mg p/w
Week 1-8: Tren Ace 100mg EOD
Week 10-12: Test Prop 100mg EOD
Week 1-10: T4 150mcg
hGH throughout cycle at 6iu's
HCG 250iu's twice a week from week 5
T
PCT 3-5 days after last shot of Test Prop, which will include tamoxifen at 40mg ED for 4weeks and then 20mg for 2 weeks, clomid 100mg ED for 4 weeks and then 50mg for 2 weeks.

This would be my second cycle, my first which was Test Enan + Deca and over a year ago and I recovered extremely fast from this cycle as I had my blood works done 4 weeks after PCT. I also understand the dangers of using Trenbolone and I have done the required research regarding the dangers and consequences of its use. I have on hand dostinex, armidex and letrozole . 

So if anybody would like to comment on the cycle go ahead but my main issue of this cycle is since I'm at 4iu's of hGH at the moment and I've learned you should be using hGH at least 8 weeks prior to starting any AAS cycle so I have that base covered would 6iu's be a good combo or should I use a higher dose depending on results side effects?

----------


## P3rf3ctionist

> Right now just doing cardio 3 days a week.....
> 
> usually PWO.... 20 minutes on a treadmill and then 30 minutes on a machine that crosses a stair stepper with an elliptical.
> 
> ~Haz~


Good job Haz, looking good.

----------


## BignBig

> Thanks for the reply earlier on Xtralarg, I've continued reading around the area on pubmed and its likes and every study I have seen regarding administration of exogenous hGH does state a positive correlation between hGH use and a decrease in thyroid activity, so I've booked in for a complete blood work but the only earliest slot available is 14th of July, do you reckon in your experience I should begin the T4 and once I get the blood works depending on the results adjust the usage of T4 then?
> 
> Also a side note, I did mention I would be using AAS in September but due to college/university commitments which begin in October I've decided to bring forward my cycle and now I'll most probably start it on August 2nd and intend to cycle for 10 weeks. 
> 
> If anybody would like to critique my proposed cycle please do so:
> Week 1-10: Testosterone Enthanate 500mg p/w
> Week 1-8: Tren Ace 100mg EOD
> Week 10-12: Test Prop 100mg EOD
> *Week 1-10: T4 150mcg*
> ...


Are you going to start T4 at 150 mcg? I found that the sides of T4 are tolerable; I got scary palpitations and headaches. A wise decision would be to start at a low dose and build it up.

Good luck

----------


## P3rf3ctionist

> Are you going to start T4 at 150 mcg? I found that the sides of T4 are tolerable; I got scary palpitations and headaches. A wise decision would be to start at a low dose and build it up.
> 
> Good luck


Hey pal, I'm debating if I should start my T4 now since I'm using GH at 4IU's and I'm also aware T4 at 100mcg translates into 20mcg of T3, so my reasoning is I'm going to continue using the GH but will increase the dose to 6IUs and with the addition of Tren would further reduce thyroid activity so a T4 dose of 150mcg would mean 30mcg of T3 which sounds like a reasonable dose from what I've read? At the moment the dose of T4 is purely theoretical and dependent on s/e as you mentioned. Also from what I've read theres little evidence to support the whole tappering up or down but then again I would assume its highly dependent on s/e. Any further you'd like to suggest? 

Thanks for the advice pal, will keep this thread updated.

----------


## mperk

> Hey Broskis;
> Hope this doesn't lead you all to an eye rolling but....
> I just got my ND blue tops and i dont know how much Bac water to add and what the concentration will be to get 2.5 and 5 iu's ed.
> 
> From reading the thread and a few others, i have concluded that I'll start w/ 2.5ius for a few weeks and go up from there. And i'll get some T4 (100mg ed) to go with (too bad it's not T3 'cause I already have that...)
> 
> Stats:
> I'm (fukkin) 50, 204lbs, 6'-2 and doing my 3rd cycle (600 Test E ew; 50 Mast eod and deca 135 3x/wk) Only have 5 weeks left in the cycle so may not get the T4 in time.
> In the last 4 years I've gone from 210 27% to 185 10% to 204 12% Goal is to get to 210 6% but I think I'll have to get up to 225 to diet down to 6% (BTW Recent pics - bloated to 211! in these due to some meds i was taking..now down to 204.)
> ...


Hey dudes - these little bottles are calling out to me - no one has info on how much aqua? :-(

----------


## Xtralarg

> Hey dudes - these little bottles are calling out to me - no one has info on how much aqua? :-(


I answered your questions on #354

----------


## Xtralarg

> Thanks for the reply earlier on Xtralarg, I've continued reading around the area on pubmed and its likes and every study I have seen regarding administration of exogenous hGH does state a positive correlation between hGH use and a decrease in thyroid activity, so I've booked in for a complete blood work but the only earliest slot available is 14th of July, do you reckon in your experience I should begin the T4 and once I get the blood works depending on the results adjust the usage of T4 then?
> 
> Also a side note, I did mention I would be using AAS in September but due to college/university commitments which begin in October I've decided to bring forward my cycle and now I'll most probably start it on August 2nd and intend to cycle for 10 weeks. 
> 
> If anybody would like to critique my proposed cycle please do so:
> Week 1-10: Testosterone Enthanate 500mg p/w
> Week 1-8: Tren Ace 100mg EOD
> Week 10-12: Test Prop 100mg EOD
> Week 1-10: T4 150mcg
> ...


As you have already started your hGH might as well wait until you get your bloods done then guage how much T4 you need when you get the results, if you dont want to wait then start at 50mcg and see where that puts your levels. If you can get them checked monthy then you will know exactly how much T4 you need throughout your cycle.

With regards to the best dose required being 6iu's or 8iu's then this would depend on how much hGH you have available, if your supply is limited then run with 6iu's for as long as you can, if your supply is not limited then go with 8iu's. Its better to run hGH at a slightly lower dose for a longer period IMO.

----------


## mperk

> I answered your questions on #354


Awesome Bro! Missed that - so much for my speed reading skills.

Thanks for the info. I'm 10 weeks into a 15 week cycle, so I think I'll wait for the t4 - I'll be done w/ it by then. Can't wait to try it - hard as hell to "grow" when you are 50...;-)

Thanks tons

----------


## kemically enhanced

hello can anyone help me out there about my ghrp 6 question pleeease im new here and dont know where to go for assistance so sorry if im off topic.

----------


## kemically enhanced

Xtralarg can you possibly help me out with this since ive been reading and can see that you have alot of knowledge about gh, any assistance would be great thanks

----------


## TheCamel

OP, much respect.
Solid thread.

----------


## Xtralarg

> hello can anyone help me out there about my ghrp 6 question pleeease im new here and dont know where to go for assistance so sorry if im off topic.


Ive not got much experience with peptides, can anyone else help this guy out please?

----------


## Hazard

> hi everyone im new here and was wondering if anyone can assist me with my question about ghrp 6 as ive been researching it for a little while now and was wondering if this peptide is detectable in a urine test or what types of drug tests can be performed to verify usage,is it detectable? aslo i have researched that its half life is bout 55 mins but how long is it detectable in your system? thanks


I'm not 100%% sure if the peptide itself is detectable.

What is the urine test for? If it's a regular drug test for a job..... you'll be fine. I highly doubt anyone is going to give you a specific test for ghrp-6.....

~Haz~

----------


## hilly2010

i doubt ghrp6 is detectable. it makes your piturity gland pulse producing more of ure own growth hormone and is a pretty new supp.

regarding its use. average dose is 100mcg 3 x per day or every 4 hours. take the dose on an empty stomach wait 15-20 mins then eat.

last dose pre bed with nothing but protein and fat in stomach eaten atlkeast an hour ago to maximise effects.

----------


## kemically enhanced

hi thanks for the reply everyone its actually for a competition i have coming up and i really need it to rehabilitate a few injuries and its the only thing that seems to work for me as ive used it before in the same dose and routine as hilly2010 has pointed out. I had a car accident about 12 months ago and my shoulder and neck always seem to buckle and give out with alot of exercises even when done properly and strict useing machines, i also have two buldges in my lower back. This stuff was amazing when i first used it, in bout 1 month all pains and injuries where gone till another stupid driver ran a red 6 months ago and cleaned me up on a set of lights so thats why i ask. Thank you for all your support, but is there anywhere i can go to get any written documentation as ive practically read and researched everywhere on the net possible about this peptide and havnt got any info bout my original question. kind regards S.D

----------


## TheCamel

Does anyone know if hgh can interfere with the kidneys and liver functions?

----------


## P3rf3ctionist

> Does anyone know if hgh can interfere with the kidneys and liver functions?


If you mean negatively impacting those organs, for example being nephrotoxic or hepatotoxic I don't believe so, but if used long enough Gh is known to enlarge organs.

----------


## BignBig

*3rd Month / Week 9:*
Raised the dosage to 8 iu as planned. T4 up to 100 mcg.

*Side effects:* Night sweats, feeling tired all the time. I feel like I want to sleep all the time. A couple times, I left work early in the afternoon so I can sleep at home?!? The first time since I started HGH, I’m feeling week.
My hands are swollen and occasionally the tips of my fingers are sensitive. 

*Benefits noticed:* Good quality sleep. Definitely, some substantial fat loss in my abdominals area.

Other observations: My appetite still up. 

Stats at the end of week 9:
Weight = 90.6 Kgs (198 lbs), lost 3 kgs (6.6 Lbs)

Not sure about Body fat at this stage

----------


## boss4romdabay

i just started my hgh cycle yesterday morning but i started at 3ius is that ok or should start at 2iu and ramp up in a few weeks? i just thought that 1 more iu wouldnt make that big of a difference right? have any of you guys started high or ramped up pretty quick?

----------


## NotSmall

> i just started my hgh cycle yesterday morning but i started at 3ius is that ok or should start at 2iu and ramp up in a few weeks? i just thought that 1 more iu wouldnt make that big of a difference right? have any of you guys started high or ramped up pretty quick?


I started at 10iu ed and didn't really have any problems.

----------


## Xtralarg

> *3rd Month / Week 9:*
> Raised the dosage to 8 iu as planned. T4 up to 100 mcg.
> 
> *Side effects:* Night sweats, feeling tired all the time. I feel like I want to sleep all the time. A couple times, I left work early in the afternoon so I can sleep at home?!? The first time since I started HGH, Im feeling week.
> My hands are swollen and occasionally the tips of my fingers are sensitive. 
> 
> *Benefits noticed:* Good quality sleep. Definitely, some substantial fat loss in my abdominals area.
> 
> Other observations: My appetite still up. 
> ...


I know exactly how you feel! I'm on a similar dosage and I HAVE to sleep in the afternoon and sometimes again early evening.

What protcol are you using?

----------


## Xtralarg

> I started at 10iu ed and didn't really have any problems.


Yeah but your super human  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## Xtralarg

> i just started my hgh cycle yesterday morning but i started at 3ius is that ok or should start at 2iu and ramp up in a few weeks? i just thought that 1 more iu wouldnt make that big of a difference right? have any of you guys started high or ramped up pretty quick?


If you can handle 3iu's then start at 3iu's, work up at your own pace, you may be lucky and not suffer from bad CTS etc.

I know a few guys who start at 4iu and are fine.

Keep us posted.

----------


## boss4romdabay

> If you can handle 3iu's then start at 3iu's, work up at your own pace, you may be lucky and not suffer from bad CTS etc.
> 
> I know a few guys who start at 4iu and are fine.
> 
> Keep us posted.


ok thanks bro

----------


## boss4romdabay

> I started at 10iu ed and didn't really have any problems.


did you have any sides at all?

----------


## BloodyBM

Hey fellas im running out of hyge's and i had these yellow tops sitting in room temp for a few months, do you think it would be ok if i used the yellow tops until i get a new kit of hyges or should i not mess with it since they been sitting out for a while...lord knows how long they been at room temp before i recieved them...thanks

----------


## Xtralarg

> Hey fellas im running out of hyge's and i had these yellow tops sitting in room temp for a few months, do you think it would be ok if i used the yellow tops until i get a new kit of hyges or should i not mess with it since they been sitting out for a while...lord knows how long they been at room temp before i recieved them...thanks


It depends on how long they have been exposed to room temp, some companies say that there gh will last 28 days, after that I guess its a sliding scale on how potent they will remain. I dont think that they will do you any harm so if you run out then you might as well use them.

----------


## BloodyBM

> It depends on how long they have been exposed to room temp, some companies say that there gh will last 28 days, after that I guess its a sliding scale on how potent they will remain. I dont think that they will do you any harm so if you run out then you might as well use them.


Thanks Big Dog really appreciate it

----------


## BloodyBM

> It depends on how long they have been exposed to room temp, some companies say that there gh will last 28 days, after that I guess its a sliding scale on how potent they will remain. I dont think that they will do you any harm so if you run out then you might as well use them.


Thanks Big Dog really appreciate it

----------


## NotSmall

> Yeah but your super human


 :Big Grin: 




> did you have any sides at all?


Slight CTS type sides but nothing dramatic - main way it gets me is the lethargy - I HATE sleeping in the day but I have found myself having to schedule in a nap in the afternoons or I struggle to function.

HOWEVER - I am currently on the last day of the 5 day 40iu ed GH blast experiment and I have constant pins and needles in my hands to the extent that when I was on the crosstrainer this morning it felt as though the handles were buzzing, pains in my forearms and elbows and occasional pins and needles and numbness in my feet which is pretty weird!

I am going to start my 4 week AAS/slin/PEG MGF blast on monday, the theory being that the 5 day GH blast should have forced my body to create new muscle cells and then the AAS cycle will mature and grow them.

Lets get massive.

----------


## paddy155

Good man

----------


## Xtralarg

> Slight CTS type sides but nothing dramatic - main way it gets me is the lethargy - I HATE sleeping in the day but I have found myself having to schedule in a nap in the afternoons or I struggle to function.
> 
> HOWEVER - I am currently on the last day of the 5 day 40iu ed GH blast experiment and I have constant pins and needles in my hands to the extent that when I was on the crosstrainer this morning it felt as though the handles were buzzing, pains in my forearms and elbows and occasional pins and needles and numbness in my feet which is pretty weird!
> 
> I am going to start my 4 week AAS/slin/PEG MGF blast on monday, the theory being that the 5 day GH blast should have forced my body to create new muscle cells and then the AAS cycle will mature and grow them.
> 
> Lets get massive.


Keep us posted NS

----------


## TheCamel

> Slight CTS type sides but nothing dramatic - main way it gets me is the lethargy - I HATE sleeping in the day but I have found myself having to schedule in a nap in the afternoons or I struggle to function.
> 
> HOWEVER - I am currently on the last day of the 5 day 40iu ed GH blast experiment and I have constant pins and needles in my hands to the extent that when I was on the crosstrainer this morning it felt as though the handles were buzzing, pains in my forearms and elbows and occasional pins and needles and numbness in my feet which is pretty weird!
> 
> I am going to start my 4 week AAS/slin/PEG MGF blast on monday, the theory being that the 5 day GH blast should have forced my body to create new muscle cells and then the AAS cycle will mature and grow them.
> 
> Lets get massive.


how did you pin 40 iu ed?
i mean how many injections per day?

----------


## NotSmall

> how did you pin 40 iu ed?
> i mean how many injections per day?


4 x 10iu IM injects
1 on waking
2 between meals during the day
1 at bedtime

----------


## BignBig

> I know exactly how you feel! I'm on a similar dosage and I HAVE to sleep in the afternoon and sometimes again early evening.
> 
> What protcol are you using?


4 iu when I wake up
4 iu before lunch

I've read that taking T4 after injection helps the lethargy. So, I tried it the last couple days. I took 50 mcg after first injection. I noticed an improvement.

However, after the 2nd injection, the T4 doesn't seem to help much?!?

----------


## Xtralarg

> 4 iu when I wake up
> 4 iu before lunch
> 
> I've read that taking T4 after injection helps the lethargy. So, I tried it the last couple days. I took 50 mcg after first injection. I noticed an improvement.
> 
> However, after the 2nd injection, the T4 doesn't seem to help much?!?


Thats strange because T4 has a long half life (5-7days) so I doubt that the tiredness post lunch has a direct correlation to the T4.

----------


## TheCamel

> 4 x 10iu IM injects
> 1 on waking
> 2 between meals during the day
> 1 at bedtime


Did you increase your protein intake during those 5 days?

----------


## P3rf3ctionist

Does anybody see using combining the use of T3 and T4 on a HGH cycle? Or would a higher dose of T4 be better for fat loss instead of a low supplementing dose of T3, with the T4, between 12.5-25mcg?

Since the past few days I've started experiencing more sides with GH, most notably stiff hands especially when I try to clench it into a fist, currently 4IUs been at those dose for about 4-5 weeks and currently in the 7th week of GH use, it's bearable at the moment so does anybody reckon I should try and get through this phase and keep the same dose or should consider lowering the dose.

----------


## P3rf3ctionist

> Slight CTS type sides but nothing dramatic - main way it gets me is the *lethargy* - I HATE sleeping in the day but I have found myself having to schedule in a nap in the afternoons or I struggle to function.
> 
> 
> Lets get massive.


NS, are you using any thyroid hormones with your GH?

----------


## Xtralarg

> Does anybody see using combining the use of T3 and T4 on a HGH cycle? Or would a higher dose of T4 be better for fat loss instead of a low supplementing dose of T3, with the T4, between 12.5-25mcg?
> 
> Since the past few days I've started experiencing more sides with GH, most notably stiff hands especially when I try to clench it into a fist, currently 4IUs been at those dose for about 4-5 weeks and currently in the 7th week of GH use, it's bearable at the moment so does anybody reckon I should try and get through this phase and keep the same dose or should consider lowering the dose.


I just use T4.

If you can handle the sides then stick at the same dose, they will slowy dissapear then you can increase again.

Are you just getting stiff hands from the bloat or are you experiencing numbness, pins & needles etc related to CTS?

----------


## NotSmall

> Did you increase your protein intake during those 5 days?


I increased it a bit, nothing dramatic through to be honest.






> NS, are you using any thyroid hormones with your GH?


Yes, T3 and T4

----------


## TheCamel

> I increased it a bit, nothing dramatic through to be honest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, T3 and T4


What do you use T3 for exactly?

----------


## NotSmall

> What do you use T3 for exactly?


To increase PTOR and reduce bf.

----------


## P3rf3ctionist

> I just use T4.
> 
> If you can handle the sides then stick at the same dose, they will slowy dissapear then you can increase again.
> 
> Are you just getting stiff hands from the bloat or are you experiencing numbness, pins & needles etc related to CTS?


Bloat so far has been quite minimal bro, no numbness or anything related to CTS, its hard to describe for example in the morning its at its worse as my whole hand is just stiff but as the day progresses it gets better but then again at night it starts to slowly creep in, it's not stopping me from doing anything so you reckon I should stick at the 4ius bro?

----------


## P3rf3ctionist

> I increased it a bit, nothing dramatic through to be honest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, T3 and T4


ahh cool, NS how much T4 do you think is adequate for 4ius of gh, I know the maintenance dose is usually between 100-200mcg, of I know it's would depend on blood work etc but from your experience bro how much would you use or recommend?

----------


## Xtralarg

> Bloat so far has been quite minimal bro, no numbness or anything related to CTS, its hard to describe for example in the morning its at its worse as my whole hand is just stiff but as the day progresses it gets better but then again at night it starts to slowly creep in, it's not stopping me from doing anything so you reckon I should stick at the 4ius bro?


If you can handle the dose then keep going. Have you put put any weight on?

----------


## TheCamel

> To increase PTOR and reduce bf.


sorry man i am not a native english speaker.
what is a PTOR?

----------


## NotSmall

> ahh cool, NS how much T4 do you think is adequate for 4ius of gh, I know the maintenance dose is usually between 100-200mcg, of I know it's would depend on blood work etc but from your experience bro how much would you use or recommend?


I would go for 100mcg simply as replacement but move it more towards the 200mcg if I wanted to speed up the leaning out process - you need to be taking a good multi-mineral with T4 to ensure that your body can convert it to T3.

----------


## NotSmall

> sorry man i am not a native english speaker.
> what is a PTOR?


Protein Turn Over Rate - i.e. the rate at which your body can break down protein and assimilate it into muscle.

----------


## TheCamel

> Protein Turn Over Rate - i.e. the rate at which your body can break down protein and assimilate it into muscle.


thanks.

what ratio are you using between T4 and T3?

----------


## NotSmall

> thanks.
> 
> what ratio are you using between T4 and T3?


50/50 - I am using what is supposed to be 100mcg of each ed BUT it is liquid stuff from a research company and I am very confident I am not really getting 100mcg of each - I have used pharma T3 before and I could really feel it - with this stuff I cannot.

----------


## Xtralarg

Whats the latest news on your blast cycle then NS?

----------


## Chev

^^^^^was wondering the same^^^^^^^

How long did you have save money to buy that blast cycle???  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## NotSmall

> Whats the latest news on your blast cycle then NS?


Well the only noticeable result from running 200ius in 5 days was chronic CTS and ridiculously bloated ankles, lol, now the idea was then to run a heavy AAS cycle straight after to mature the new cells that should have been created during the GH blast - however - due to personal reasons I cannot afford to be on tren right now - I need to be on my best behaviour and running tren is not condusive to that! 






> ^^^^^was wondering the same^^^^^^^
> 
> How long did you have save money to buy that blast cycle???


I am lucky enough to have a job that pays me pretty good  :Wink:

----------


## Xtralarg

> Well the only noticeable result from running 200ius in 5 days was chronic CTS and ridiculously bloated ankles, lol, now the idea was then to run a heavy AAS cycle straight after to mature the new cells that should have been created during the GH blast - however - due to personal reasons I cannot afford to be on tren right now - I need to be on my best behaviour and running tren is not condusive to that! 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am lucky enough to have a job that pays me pretty good


Do you think running such a high dose has worked?

----------


## NotSmall

> Do you think running such a high dose has worked?


Hard to say - the idea of it is that you see the results in the following weeks as you mature the new cells which ideally would be done with some heavy androgens and I have all that ready to go but like I say - for personal reasons I cannot run it right now.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Hard to say - the idea of it is that you see the results in the following weeks as you mature the new cells which ideally would be done with some heavy androgens and I have all that ready to go but like I say - for personal reasons I cannot run it right now.


Thats a shame, I guess all you can do is try it again when things are better for you.

I am suprised that you were able to handle the sides!

----------


## babyface770

> I have used pharma T3 before and I could really feel it - with this stuff I cannot.



how do u feel it ?

----------


## NotSmall

> Thats a shame, I guess all you can do is try it again when things are better for you.
> 
> I am suprised that you were able to handle the sides!


I wouldn't have wanted to run it any longer!

----------


## NotSmall

> how do u feel it ?


Could just feel myself "come up" on it (if you'll excuse the rec drug terminology lol) kinda felt revved up - hard to describe.

----------


## Hazard

Just some quick notes here......

My hgh supply started getting low so I decided to cut back to 6iu's until my order comes in. I started doing all 6iu's between 7-8pm and my sleep has definately improved and all my fingers feel "fat" in the morning..... the muscle bellies feel "fuller"..... and I just all around feel better. I've only been doing this for a few days so far.....

~Haz~

----------


## mperk

[QUOTE=NotSmall;5251900]however - due to personal reasons I cannot afford to be on tren right now - I need to be on my best behaviour and running tren is not condusive to that! 
QUOTE]

LOL - When i was on Tren i was a beast! hahahaha - I let my temper fly a few times. Although it was always someone who deserved it, it di make me look like a jacka$$! something I usually try to conceal!

Where do you guys inject? i have been going for belly fat but it leaves a nice little bruise!!!

----------


## Matt

[quote=mperk;5254786]


> however - due to personal reasons I cannot afford to be on tren right now - I need to be on my best behaviour and running tren is not condusive to that! 
> QUOTE]
> 
> LOL - When i was on Tren i was a beast! hahahaha - I let my temper fly a few times. Although it was always someone who deserved it, it di make me look like a jacka$$! something I usually try to conceal!
> 
> Where do you guys inject? i have been going for belly fat but it leaves a nice little bruise!!!


Around the stomach, ive not had any red marks or lumps but i do go deep into the fat....

----------


## P3rf3ctionist

> If you can handle the dose then keep going. Have you put put any weight on?


Just weighed myself today bro and have actually put on 5.5lbs in the past 3.5 weeks when I last weighed myself, there's been no change in diet, it has been strict low carb cycling, workout intensity has increased and I visibly look leaner but the scales moved in the wrong direction, any ideas bro I'm not losing weight any faster? I'm due to get my bloods done on Tuesday, do you think low T4/T3 could be partially responsible? Over the past 10 days or so I've been feeling much more tired during the day and have had to take consistent naps of 2-3 hours just to feel normal.

----------


## P3rf3ctionist

[QUOTE=007;5254961]


> Around the stomach, ive not had any red marks or lumps but i do go deep into the fat....


From what I read injecting into fat slows the absorption rate of the aqueous solution as water is hydrophobic and in turn reduces the bioavailability. What's your views/opinion on that bro?

----------


## boss4romdabay

> i just started my hgh cycle yesterday morning but i started at 3ius is that ok or should start at 2iu and ramp up in a few weeks? i just thought that 1 more iu wouldnt make that big of a difference right? have any of you guys started high or ramped up pretty quick?


its been 8 days since i started my gh at 3iu and i havent really had bad sides at all  :Hmmmm:  on like day 3 i had a serious head ache and i felt so tired i slept all day and night but on like day 5 everything was fine. i have noticed a little soreness in my wrist but it went away after a few mins. maybe im just on so much shit i cant notice the sides  :Haha:  but im on tren right now and im sleeping my ass off all this week! is it too soon to notice sides?

----------


## swimswamswum

i just got off my second cycle i used 200mg of test prop eod, eq 300mg weekly w/winni tabs 50mg ed, 1st cycle was 2 years ago 3 bottles of test cyp w/eq and dbol ,
im 5'10 242lbs about 16-18%bf, im looking to start a peptide cycle i have 
IGF1 DES 1,3 2x 1mg/2ml
IGF1 LR3 2x 1mg
IGF2 LR3 2x 1mg/2ml
HGH Fragment 176-191 2x 5mg/2ml
but i have no clue how to take all this, i understand how to load the needle and prep the peptides but i have no clue on the amount of which i take and when to take it, and do i need more of any of them or all of them, im looking to see some veins other than just a few and put on some size while dropping a lot of fat

----------


## Xtralarg

> Just weighed myself today bro and have actually put on 5.5lbs in the past 3.5 weeks when I last weighed myself, there's been no change in diet, it has been strict low carb cycling, workout intensity has increased and I visibly look leaner but the scales moved in the wrong direction, any ideas bro I'm not losing weight any faster? I'm due to get my bloods done on Tuesday, do you think low T4/T3 could be partially responsible? Over the past 10 days or so I've been feeling much more tired during the day and have had to take consistent naps of 2-3 hours just to feel normal.


Do you feel like you are retining a lot of water?

Any numbness, CTS etc?

----------


## mperk

[QUOTE=P3rf3ctionist;5255379]


> From what I read injecting into fat slows the absorption rate of the aqueous solution as water is hydrophobic and in turn reduces the bioavailability. What's your views/opinion on that bro?


You know I've heard both that and that it doesn't matter 'cause the difference is negligible. My problem is that it is hard to find fat that is think enough. Not that I am ripped but i prolly have 1/4" fat all over and then 1/2-3/4" at my waist. I use an insulin pin so it's only 1/2" long - i have to grab the fat in my hand 'cause if I go straight in it goes into my abs. BTW - I'm about 10- 11% BF

these bruises are embarrassing - if anyone knows about roids - I look like a junky...(or a leopard). especially in the locker room at the gym. My wife doesn't give a $hit - hahahaha - there's the irony - she likes uber skinny guys like that dude in the twilight movies. I think she came in the theater first one we saw - hahahahaha

----------


## BJJ

I was on a holiday lastly but did not forget to take notice of my HGH progression.

Basically, I increased the daily dose from 8 iu to 16/24 iu and noticed some bloating in either my face and lips as well as in my wrists, hands and tummy; basically everywhere, I cannot take off my marriage ring anymore!

Also, I started to pin before bed and noticed, in terms of abs visibility, a better "performance" of the drug upon awakening.

IM injections seem to be more powerful than sub-q, I sleep deeper.

Furthermore, I bumped the daily intake of T4 to 150/200 mcg and I am awaiting a new blood work to see how my thyroid reacted on such a dose.

On a side note, I want to report something weird. My skin is sensitive so I need sun-protection cream in the summer. So, intentionally I never used any cream and for the first time in my life I did not get burned. Somatropin...?

Please, guess my body fat percentage here (last week of PCT): http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...=1#post5257677

----------


## Xtralarg

> I was on a holiday lastly but did not forget to take notice of my HGH progression.
> 
> Basically, I increased the daily dose from 8 iu to 16/24 iu and noticed some bloating in either my face and lips as well as in my wrists, hands and tummy; basically everywhere, I cannot take off my marriage ring anymore!
> 
> Also, I started to pin before bed and noticed, in terms of abs visibility, a better "performance" of the drug upon awakening.
> 
> IM injections seem to be more powerful than sub-q, I sleep deeper.
> 
> Furthermore, I bumped the daily intake of T4 to 150/200 mcg and I am awaiting a new blood work to see how my thyroid reacted on such a dose.
> ...


Good to have you back! 

You look in excellent shape!

----------


## BJJ

> Good to have you back! 
> 
> You look in excellent shape!


Thanks man, much appreciate it.

I have put my hands today on a new brand named somatrope which came into an ampulla with water already inside to be mixed.

The vials are much bigger than usual and it seems a legit drug... they ship from Bulgaria.

I wanted to make it analyzed but I was asked the same price I would spend for 500 IU of HGH. Too much, so I will continue to follow the blood work protocol until I find a more affordable place even because I have now on hand 5 different types of HGH all from different sources, 3 powders, 1 pen and 1 ampulla and also getting a new blood work each time is becoming very expensive!!!

----------


## Xtralarg

> Thanks man, much appreciate it.
> 
> I have put my hands today on a new brand named somatrope which came into an ampulla with water already inside to be mixed.
> 
> The vials are much bigger than usual and it seems a legit drug... they ship from Bulgaria.
> 
> I wanted to make it analyzed but I was asked the same price I would spend for 500 IU of HGH. Too much, so I will continue to follow the blood work protocol until I find a more affordable place even because I have now on hand 5 different types of HGH all from different sources, 3 powders, 1 pen and 1 ampulla and also getting a new blood work each time is becoming very expensive!!!


Well what you have been using looks like it has been working very well!

Haqve you noticed any differene between the pen and the powder?

----------


## BJJ

> Well what you have been using looks like it has been working very well!
> 
> Haqve you noticed any differene between the pen and the powder?


So far I have been using only powder, either the pen and the ampulla are on hold.

I will start them soon, I have to finish to use the hy_getropin and I have left still 200 IU.

Also I must notice, looking at my HGH and IGF-1 values, that there is a difference among the three powders I used so far.

Basically, this is what I noticed:

IGF-1: *135* ng/ml [96 - 424]______________________*159*__________________*238*__________________________________________________ _______*461*
HGH: *0,3* ng/ml [0,0 - 10]_____________________________________________*11,1*____________________________________*10,5*_________________*22,2*

__________________________________________________ ________________*EuroHormones*
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______*Generic Green Tops*
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________*Generic Yellow Tops****

Injection time: 05:30 am (all three types)
Days on the same drug before testing: 7 (all three types)
Blood work time: 08:00 am (all three types)
Amount injected: 4 iu (eurohormones) - 4 iu (green Tops) - 5 iu (yellow Tops)
Injection site: umbilical (eurohormones) - oblique (green/yellow tops)
Injection type: sub-q (all three types)

So, it seems that the best result was achieved by the yellow tops either in terms of somatotropin and IGF-1.

You are surely more expert, what do you think by looking at that blood panel?
Unfortunately, I could not check the somatomedin the second time.

***
marcus do you remember the shipment from Liverpool?
Well, it was the yellow tops. Having you too more experience, you may sum up your own conclusions.

----------


## marcus300

> So far I have been using only powder, either the pen and the ampulla are on hold.
> 
> I will start them soon, I have to finish to use the hy_getropin and I have left still 200 IU.
> 
> Also I must notice, looking at my HGH and IGF-1 values, that there is a difference among the three powders I used so far.
> 
> Basically, this is what I noticed:
> 
> IGF-1: *135* ng/ml [96 - 424]_______________________________________________*159*__________________*238*__________________________________________________ _______*461*
> ...


Can you write this out alittle easier so it can be read correctly, i am struggling to understand it, are the figures from 3 different gh's

----------


## BJJ

> So far I have been using only powder, either the pen and the ampulla are on hold.
> 
> I will start them soon, I have to finish to use the hy_getropin and I have left still 200 IU.
> 
> Also I must notice, looking at my HGH and IGF-1 values, that there is a difference among the three powders I used so far.
> 
> Basically, this is what I noticed:
> 
> IGF-1: *135* ng/ml [96 - 424]_______________________________________________*159*__________________*238*__________________________________________________ _______*461*
> ...





> Can you write this out alittle easier so it can be read correctly, i am struggling to understand it, are the figures from 3 different gh's


Yes, you can see my levels before starting the cycle on the left.
Then a IGF-1 check when I was using only testosterone suspension .
Then, when I started HGH by the end of the cycle I checked somatotropin and somatomedin (eurohormones).
Then, the second brand (green tops) I could only check somatotropin and with the final blood work (yellow tops) I could check again both levels of HGH and IGF-1.

Let me know if it is clear now.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Yes, you can see my levels before starting the cycle on the left.
> Then a IGF-1 check when I was using only testosterone suspension .
> Then, when I started HGH by the end of the cycle I checked somatotropin and somatomedin (eurohormones).
> Then, the second brand (green tops) I could only check somatotropin and with the final blood work (yellow tops) I could check again both levels of HGH and IGF-1.
> 
> Let me know if it is clear now.


It will be interesting to see what the results are with the hyges.

----------


## BJJ

> It will be interesting to see what the results are with the hyges.


Yes, I second that statement.
In 7 days I will get a new BW again.

----------


## AndriodLee

> It will be interesting to see what the results are with the hyges.


so the generic greens are hyges?

----------


## Xtralarg

> Yes, I second that statement.
> In 7 days I will get a new BW again.


How long before you take the blood do you shoot the hgh and by what method to you administer the shot?

----------


## Xtralarg

> so the generic greens are hyges?


No, hyges are hyges and generic greens are a generic hgh with green tops.

----------


## BJJ

> How long before you take the blood do you shoot the hgh and by what method to you administer the shot?



*Injection time: 05:30 am (all three types)*
Days on the same drug before testing: 7 (all three types)
*Blood work time: 08:00 am (all three types)*
Amount injected: 4 iu (eurohormones) - 4 iu (green Tops) - 5 iu (yellow Tops)
Injection site: umbilical (eurohormones) - oblique (green/yellow tops)
*Injection type: sub-q (all three types)*

----------


## marcus300

> Yes, you can see my levels before starting the cycle on the left.
> Then a IGF-1 check when I was using only testosterone suspension .
> Then, when I started HGH by the end of the cycle I checked somatotropin and somatomedin (eurohormones).
> Then, the second brand (green tops) I could only check somatotropin and with the final blood work (yellow tops) I could check again both levels of HGH and IGF-1.
> 
> Let me know if it is clear now.


There's been some confusion recently regarding blood test and hgh/igf but this shows it can be tested and results confirm this, will be interesting to see your hyge results and which of your 3 gh's are better quality

----------


## BJJ

> There's been some confusion recently regarding blood test and hgh/igf but this shows it can be tested and results confirm this, will be interesting to see your hyge results and which of your 3 gh's are better quality


Confusion? what did I miss?

Yes I am looking forward to see my HYGE results.

Regarding the quality, the yellow tops seem to be the best so far.

----------


## marcus300

> Confusion? what did I miss?
> 
> Yes I am looking forward to see my HYGE results.
> 
> Regarding the quality, the yellow tops seem to be the best so far.


From your blood work its seems yellow's are the best and the other's were underdosed.


The confusion is on anther thread chinese conern one, we were debating about whats the best test to see if your hgh is hgh

----------


## BJJ

> From your blood work its seems yellow's are the best and the other's were underdosed. *my thought as well*
> 
> 
> The confusion is on anther thread chinese conern one, we were debating about whats the best test to see if your hgh is hgh


Well I believe the REAL BEST way would be to test it before injecting it, it is obvious.

The problem is, at least for me, the price I was requested to analyze a vial of HGH.

If you have any private lab with an affordable price, please let me know.

----------


## marcus300

> Well I believe the REAL BEST way would be to test it before injecting it, it is obvious.
> 
> The problem is, at least for me, the price I was requested to analyze a vial of HGH.
> 
> If you have any private lab with an affordable price, please let me know.


I agree :Smilie: 

You looking dry,ripped and condition big boy keep it up

----------


## BJJ

> I agree
> 
> You looking dry,ripped and condition big boy keep it up


Grazie  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## Xtralarg

> Well I believe the REAL BEST way would be to test it before injecting it, it is obvious.
> 
> The problem is, at least for me, the price I was requested to analyze a vial of HGH.
> 
> If you have any private lab with an affordable price, please let me know.


What price have you been quoted?

----------


## BJJ

> What price have you been quoted?


500 euro for a vial/ampulla that has to be not less then 10 iu.
I was told they perform three times the check so to be able to give a correct percentage of purity also.

Whatever... it is too much.

I pay 75 euro for checking somatotropin and somatomedin.

----------


## Fantomg

> I did not sleep very well tonight and I do not know if related to the injection of 5 iu took yesterday @ 23:45 pm along with 100 mcg of T4.


Have only read till your post so far. But I want to say re: sleep problems - I'm not running T4 w/HGH, just HGH. EVERY time I've run it before bed (usually inside 45 minutes of trying to sleep) I can't sleep. Toss n turn all night. I tried every other night to double check and each night I used... terrible sleep. WHY?

The difference was I got to eat prior to sleep on nights I didn't pin... protein shake, chicken/beef etc. I've always eaten at night. I've since given up on night pinning and pin at 5am (about 1 hour before I actually get up). Someone have an idea as to why this happens?

----------


## NotSmall

> Have only read till your post so far. But I want to say re: sleep problems - I'm not running T4 w/HGH, just HGH. EVERY time I've run it before bed (usually inside 45 minutes of trying to sleep) I can't sleep. Toss n turn all night. I tried every other night to double check and each night I used... terrible sleep. WHY?
> 
> The difference was I got to eat prior to sleep on nights I didn't pin... protein shake, chicken/beef etc. I've always eaten at night. I've since given up on night pinning and pin at 5am (about 1 hour before I actually get up). Someone have an idea as to why this happens?


I inject before bed and it makes me sleep alot lighter, my sleep is more broken and I have strange, quite vivid dreams.

----------


## BJJ

> Have only read till your post so far. But I want to say re: sleep problems - I'm not running T4 w/HGH, just HGH. EVERY time I've run it before bed (usually inside 45 minutes of trying to sleep) I can't sleep. Toss n turn all night. I tried every other night to double check and each night I used... terrible sleep. WHY?
> 
> The difference was I got to eat prior to sleep on nights I didn't pin... protein shake, chicken/beef etc. I've always eaten at night. I've since given up on night pinning and pin at 5am (about 1 hour before I actually get up). * Someone have an idea as to why this happens?*


If you refer to the fact that we both cannot sleep on T4, I believe it has something to do with ourselves only. I mean some respond in one way some in another. The deal is to figure out what works for you.

In any case, I solved my problem taking T4 between breakfst and luch, of course on an empty stomach.

----------


## BJJ

> I inject before bed and it makes me sleep alot lighter, my sleep is more broken and I have strange, quite vivid dreams.


See, what I meant we are all different even though still humans.

In my case it is the opposite, since I started to inject before bed I slept much deeper and remembered most of my dreams.
When I switched from sub-q to IM, this result was even expanded.

----------


## Fantomg

Testing of the Mass Spectrometry and Liquid Chromatography type may be done for $195. Will know Monday. There was an additional method posted (can't find it right this second) that was sent to them as well,(the literature from a link posted by someone on here). They agreed that they would be able to include that if ordered as well. The relationship is being forged by a person who works for a distributor of many HGH products. His intentions are to "open the door" for others wanting their vials contents identified, including but not limited to "potency levels" as well. There was language involved on Friday that indicated they may be able to come in lower than $195 for the MS and LC tests too.
Would love to see you guys confirm your gear as there's no doubt you've worked your arses off and spent hard earned money.

----------


## Fantomg

> I inject before bed and it makes me sleep alot lighter, my sleep is more broken and I have strange, quite vivid dreams.


Yeah - When I DID pin on the sleepless nights, I actually dosed off slightly quite a few times but it was like I was still awake with the craziest vivid dreams. Ones that I actually could control (as I believe I was still awake somewhat).

Ya know - This is actually nice in the fact that it makes me believe I've got real stuff. Funny how I will welcome and like in some sort of sick way painful knuckes and arms falling asleep all the time. If I had these things when I wasn't taking anything I'd be calling the doc scared that I was dying from some heart disease etc. LOL.

Lucky you BJJ - You're getting good sleep with just the HGH before sleep? Everyone IS different to some extent.
Were you a good "sleeper" prior to HGH? (I was not at all)

----------


## BJJ

> Yeah - When I DID pin on the sleepless nights, I actually dosed off slightly quite a few times but it was like I was still awake with the craziest vivid dreams. Ones that I actually could control (as I believe I was still awake somewhat).
> 
> Ya know - This is actually nice in the fact that it makes me believe I've got real stuff. Funny how I will welcome and like in some sort of sick way painful knuckes and arms falling asleep all the time. If I had these things when I wasn't taking anything I'd be calling the doc scared that I was dying from some heart disease etc. LOL.
> 
> *Lucky you BJJ - You're getting good sleep with just the HGH before sleep? Everyone IS different to some extent.
> Were you a good "sleeper" prior to HGH? (I was not at all)*


I am a trader so from 1995 till the end of 2007 I slept very good lol *except the year 2000 and the 9/11 period.

So, to answer your question, I was a good sleeper but since 2.5 years I am not anymore unfortunately.
HGH is helping me for sure but I do not want to screw up my hypophysis so I will stop soon injecting before bed.

----------


## Fantomg

Can we agree that Mass Spectrometry and Liquid Chromatography results will provide the CONCLUSIVE answer to what we have (everything in our vial(s) and how much "potency")? There's another method I've posted below from Mr. Rose too. I KNOW we will find a lab here that's affordable - There's a good chance that this may happen TOMORROW at a cost of $195 or less. *But please help decide which analytical test on the vial(s) is the one to run*. Some of the labs I've called don't help too much in the way of explaining which is the most definitive test. I want, for lack of a better term, "the biggest bang for my buck".


MR. ROSE POSTED THE FOLLOWING IN ANOTHER THREAD:

_Please read this amazing article, it explains a patent, specifically formulated to test the purity and biological activity of rhGH.

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/57...scription.html

"Additionally, the wrong choice of manufacturing conditions or formulation may lead to improperly folded polypeptide chains which are biologically inactive. Hence, further methodologies capable of analysis of the protein conformation are needed."

^^ This would be our greatest fear as we know the conditions of some labs in china are not legislated and inspected like those are in other countries with stricter laws. So basicly the company could be making REAL hGH, but due to poor conditions it is biologically inactive.

"currently, the analysis of biopharmaceuticals relies heavily on the use of sophisticated methods for the demonstration of the structural identity, homogeneity and purity of the products. These methods include amino acid and carbohydrate analysis, N- and C-terminal sequence analysis, spectroscopic (UV, CD, ORD) analysis, peptide mapping, electrophoresis, chromatographic purity profile methods, potency/activity assays, etc. It must be emphasized that no one method is considered to be sufficient in itself, and that multiple methods are necessary to completely characterize and/or control such products."

^^ Those above are the current methods to test purity of protein-based recombinant technology creations._

*THIS IS GOING TO BE A MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH. IF WE GET THE RIGHT LAB FOR A REASONABLE PRICE. THE DAYS OF GUESSING IF YOU HAVE THE "REAL DEAL" ARE OVER. AND.....THE DAYS OF THE PIECE OF **** COUNTERFEITER(S) ARE NUMBERED.*

----------


## Hazard

BJJ - your looking awesome man! keep up the great work and the great reporting for us!

My fathers blood work came back..... His IGF-1 levels were on the very high end of normal. Now..... He didn't inject 2 days prior to getting blood work..... so i'm hoping this is a good sign considering his IGF-1 levels were in the dirt before he started hgh. He's only using 3iu's.....

~Haz~

----------


## Hazard

Oh btw XLG..... I sent that website an email about pricing to test HGH..... they got back to me and said they can test it for sure but he wouldn't discuss it over email and wanted me to call him...... which I didn't.....

~Haz~

----------


## BJJ

> *BJJ - your looking awesome man! keep up the great work and the great reporting for us!*
> 
> My fathers blood work came back..... His IGF-1 levels were on the very high end of normal. Now..... He didn't inject 2 days prior to getting blood work..... so i'm hoping this is a good sign considering his IGF-1 levels were in the dirt before he started hgh. He's only using 3iu's.....
> 
> ~Haz~


gazie  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## NotSmall

> Oh btw XLG..... I sent that website an email about pricing to test HGH..... they got back to me and said they can test it for sure but he wouldn't discuss it over email and wanted me to call him...... *which I didn't.....* 
> 
> ~Haz~


Is that because you are is the US and fear the legal ramifications? - If so PM me the number and I will call them.

----------


## BJJ

XL I just did a shot of 4 iu and got soon after, about 5', a little headache.
Never happened before, so as per your request, I thought about reporting it.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Oh btw XLG..... I sent that website an email about pricing to test HGH..... they got back to me and said they can test it for sure but he wouldn't discuss it over email and wanted me to call him...... which I didn't.....
> 
> ~Haz~


Haz

Remind me which lab it was please, I have been dealing with so many over the last few days they are all blending into one  :Frown:

----------


## Xtralarg

> XL I just did a shot of 4 iu and got soon after, about 5', a little headache.
> Never happened before, so as per your request, I thought about reporting it.


Thanks BJJ

I doubt that is has anything to do with the hGH, what do you think?

----------


## BJJ

> Thanks BJJ
> 
> I doubt that is has anything to do with the hGH, what do you think?


If you say so I grant your statement XL.
Now that I have seen the other thread you started I got a bit worry and perhaps giving importance to things which are not.

----------


## Xtralarg

Going to back to the subject of sleep whilst using hGH. All I have to report is that I have never slept as well in all my life, I can sleep all night and twice during the day without fail.

Anyone else feel the same?

----------


## Xtralarg

> If you say so I grant your statement XL.
> Now that I have seen the other thread you started I got a bit worry and perhaps giving importance to things which are not.


You have your blood test results which tell you that your hGH levels are elivated so you dont have to worry!!

How is the CT today?

----------


## Matt

Ive started week three, weeks 1/2 were 2ius 5on 2 off. Today and on wards will be 4ius.. 

Ive noticed my sleeping on injection days is very good and i felt slight numbness in the tips of my fingers.. Ive also noticed my weight is going up daily and presume this is now bloat even at such a low dose, i also feel alittle bloated..

Ive decided to run the 4ius 7 days a week now for at least two months.. Im using Glotropin...

----------


## BJJ

> You have your blood test results which tell you that your hGH levels are elivated so you dont have to worry!!
> 
> How is the CT today?


Still bad like yesterday and noticed also my ankles are full of water, I can easily touch it.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Ive started week three, weeks 1/2 were 2ius 5on 2 off. Today and on wards will be 4ius.. 
> 
> Ive noticed my sleeping on injection days is very good and i felt slight numbness in the tips of my fingers.. Ive also noticed my weight is going up daily and presume this is now bloat even at such a low dose, i also feel alittle bloated..
> 
> Ive decided to run the 4ius 7 days a week now for at least two months.. Im using Glotropin...


Any update on getting it tested by a lab?

----------


## BJJ

By the way, this morning I sent my wife to get her blood work prior commencing the HGH cycle.

Tonight around 23:30 I will "hit her" for the first time with 1iu along with 50 mg of T4.
Are those proper dosages?

----------


## Matt

> Any update on getting it tested by a lab?


No mate, im going to see how NS gets on and take it from there, i will however be getting my bloodworks done to see if that gives me an idea..

----------


## Xtralarg

> By the way, this morning I sent my wife to get her blood work prior commencing the HGH cycle.
> 
> Tonight around 23:30 I will "hit her" for the first time with 1iu along with 50 mg of T4.
> Are those proper dosages?


Sounds good to me. 

It will be interesting to find out how she reacts. Will you be working her up to 2iu's eventually?

----------


## Xtralarg

> No mate, im going to see how NS gets on and take it from there, i will however be getting my bloodworks done to see if that gives me an idea..


Well if your results are anything like BJJ's then you should be happy!

----------


## BJJ

> Sounds good to me. 
> 
> It will be interesting to find out how she reacts. Will you be working her up to 2iu's eventually?


Yes after 2 weeks I was thinking and do not exclude to go higher than that.

In any case, she will follow my blood work protocol so in 7 days we will have other data to compare with mine.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Still bad like yesterday and noticed also my ankles are full of water, I can easily touch it.


Is this any different to your previous sides?

----------


## BJJ

> Is this any different to your previous sides?


Yes in terms of power.
Hands were never tha swollen and also my elbows bother me when I lift weights.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Yes in terms of power.
> Hands were never tha swollen and also my elbows bother me when I lift weights.


Just confirm this is from the hyges?

Are you saying that you are now holding more water than before and in more places? Have you have a break during your holiday or have you just gone from one brand to another without a break?

----------


## BJJ

> Just confirm this is from the hyges?
> 
> Are you saying that you are now holding more water than before and in more places? Have you have a break during your holiday or have you just gone from one brand to another without a break?


Yes from the hyges which I started 2 days ago.

No break, I went on a holiday with my car in order to carry the hgh with.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Yes from the hyges which I started 2 days ago.
> 
> No break, I went on a holiday with my car in order to carry the hgh with.


Thanks for the info.

I will be very interested to see your blood results now you are holding extra water so quickly. When do you get it checked?

----------


## BJJ

> Thanks for the info.
> 
> I will be very interested to see your blood results now you are holding extra water so quickly. When do you get it checked?


This Friday morning I will go.

----------


## Xtralarg

> This Friday morning I will go.


When do you get the results?

----------


## BJJ

> When do you get the results?


Usually it takes 5 working days but sometimes even 10.
I speak about HGH and IGF-1.

----------


## Hazard

> Is that because you are is the US and fear the legal ramifications? - If so PM me the number and I will call them.


Yea.... just a bit weary about it..... I'll pm you the number.




> Haz
> 
> Remind me which lab it was please, I have been dealing with so many over the last few days they are all blending into one


 
It was Arlok.....

Thomas C. Kupiec, Ph.D.

President/CEO 

ARL BioPharma, Inc.

Oklahoma City, OK 73104


~Haz~

----------


## Xtralarg

> Usually it takes 5 working days but sometimes even 10.
> I speak about HGH and IGF-1.


Ok well until then I guess we will have to monitor your sides, I hope your headache has gone by now!?!

----------


## BJJ

> Ok well until then I guess we will have to monitor your sides, I hope your headache has gone by now!?!


Yes it has gone, actually after 2 hours.

I will let you know if anything changes from now on.

----------


## SlimmerMe

For BJJ re: wife dosage: I started at 1 and got a HUGE headache---and TIRED so I cut back to .5 for a couple weeks----then back up to 1 for a few weeks-- and BLOATED for awhile----then 1.5 for a few weeks----now I am at 2--and all is okay----so----if she gets sleepy then obviously cut back---then move forward--( I take Armour ED )

----------


## BJJ

> For BJJ re: wife dosage: I started at 1 and got a HUGE headache---and TIRED so I cut back to .5 for a couple weeks----then back up to 1 for a few weeks-----then 1.5 for a few weeks----now I am at 2--and all is okay----so----if she gets sleepy then obviously cut back---then move forward---I also do Armour---


Thanks for your suggestion, I will keep it in mind.

Also, when do you inject? morning or evening? how much T4 are you using?

----------


## SlimmerMe

I inject usually early morning----about 4- 5am then go back to sleep for a couple hours---DEEP sleep and VIVID dreams----but sometimes before bed depending on circumstances----and Armour has both t-3 and t-4--I take everyday----

----------


## BJJ

> I inject usually early morning----about 5am then go back to sleep---DEEP sleep----but sometimes before bed depending on circumstances----and Armour has both t-3 and t-4--I take everyday----


Ok thanks.

Please share your experience with us here, there are not many girls around...

----------


## BJJ

by the way, I have 2 pugs so I can only love your puppy...

----------


## Xtralarg

> I inject usually early morning----about 4- 5am then go back to sleep for a couple hours---DEEP sleep and VIVID dreams----but sometimes before bed depending on circumstances----and Armour has both t-3 and t-4--I take everyday----





> Ok thanks.
> 
> Please share your experience with us here, there are not many girls around...


Yes please share your experiences. 

One question I have for SlimmerMe is how long did the bloat take to go away?

----------


## SlimmerMe

thanks BJJ! a lot of people thought she was a pug---I am on my 3rd Boston who looks more like a Boxer---I have been looking all over the place for my log notes so when I find them to share I will be more specific

----------


## SlimmerMe

BLOAT??? still here----living with it---not as bad---but around

----------


## Hazard

> thanks BJJ! a lot of people thought she was a pug---I am on my 3rd Boston who looks more like a Boxer---I have been looking all over the place for my log notes so when I find them to share I will be more specific


 
Please do! My mother just started Testosterone gel and armour thyroid..... she doesn't want to use HGH again because of the bloating......

~Haz~

----------


## Xtralarg

> forgot: the BLOAT??? still here----living with it---not as bad---but around


How long have you been on the gh? 

Doeshe bloat subside then come back when you increase the dose or does it never go away? 

Are you taking any aas?

Have you seen a drop in BF%?

Any lean muscle gains?

Sorry for all the questions  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## SlimmerMe

started this past April---so about 3 months now--I am only doing HRT compounded:
estriol-estradiol--progesterone--test--dhea---all mixed into one every single day--and Armour ED---
I think I am leaner---but more weight on the scale which BUGS ME
the Bloat?--I have a hard time telling now---I am so used to it--my stomach seems to stick out more--and my stomach has always been the best part of me----I just started injecting in my thigh to see if that helped---PLEASE----ASK---I LOVE THIS FORUM!

----------


## BJJ

Do you inject IM or sub-q? GH speaking

----------


## SlimmerMe

Sub-q

----------


## marcus300

> started this past April---so about 3 months now--I am only doing HRT compounded:
> estriol-estradiol--progesterone--test--dhea---all mixed into one every single day--and Armour ED---
> I think I am leaner---but more weight on the scale which BUGS ME
> the Bloat?--I have a hard time telling now---I am so used to it--my stomach seems to stick out more--and my stomach has always been the best part of me----I just started injecting in my thigh to see if that helped---PLEASE----ASK---I LOVE THIS FORUM!


You shouldnt be bloated all over your body after 3 months at 1iu and 2ius, which gh is it?

----------


## Xtralarg

> You shouldnt be bloated all over your body after 3 months at 1iu and 2ius, which gh is it?


Agreed, this worries me slighlty.

----------


## BJJ

Do you guys know if Glutathione may interfere with Somatropin?

I started yesterday my GSH protocol which consits in 600 mg ed for the following 2 weeks, IM injections.

Of course, I inject hours away from HGH and I know the half life of Glutathione is about minutes, not even hours.

So, there should be no problem but was wondering if some of you knows anything deeper than that and/or have a personal experience with GSH.

----------


## Xtralarg

Sorry I cant help you out with that one.

----------


## SlimmerMe

Omnitrope

----------


## BJJ

^
I tried to PM you but...

----------


## Xtralarg

> Omnitrope


Pen or powder?

----------


## SlimmerMe

comes in a vial----already mixed up---from the pharmacy via my doc---BJJ: I will check my pm---

----------


## Vitruvian-Man

> comes in a vial----already mixed up---from the pharmacy via my doc---BJJ: I will check my pm---


Those are fine. 100% legit, and very, very expensive pharma-grade. 

-VM

----------


## BJJ

> comes in a vial----already mixed up---from the pharmacy via my doc---BJJ: I will check my pm---


If you want to receive and send PMs you need to go to your control panel and edit your options.

Simply, I cannot access to the function.

----------


## marcus300

> comes in a vial----already mixed up---from the pharmacy via my doc---BJJ: I will check my pm---


They look very nice :Smilie:

----------


## NotSmall

I'm not trying to be a smartass but one of the mainstays of the "Chinese stuff is fake" argument has been the prolonged water retention and now it seems that is also possible on pharma stuff - I am increasingly starting to think we may have all got a bit carried away.

----------


## Xtralarg

> I'm not trying to be a smartass but one of the mainstays of the "Chinese stuff is fake" argument has been the prolonged water retention and now it seems that is also possible on pharma stuff - I am increasingly starting to think we may have all got a bit carried away.


This crossed my mind but we have to remember that slimmerme is a female who is also on HRT which could well complicate issues surrounding water retention IMO.

----------


## Fantomg

> I'm not trying to be a smartass but one of the mainstays of the "Chinese stuff is fake" argument has been the prolonged water retention and now it seems that is also possible on pharma stuff - I am increasingly starting to think we may have all got a bit carried away.


I knew that was coming, as you beat me to it. If this helps with my experience or just throws more curve balls, it was:

Bloat (around 6-7lbs) in the beginning. Face was fat etc.
Gone after about 30 days or at least mostly gone
Then nothing - nothing until 2 1/2 months (almost quit)
2 1/2 months till now appx 5 1/2mths - 258 down to 225! Actually started a little gain inside the last several weeks now at 230ish. 



(I also feel great with lots of mental energy every single day. I did the megarexic "shit I'm getting small" thing when the weight loss started. But had so many at the gym tell me how much better (tighter and hard) I was getting) I haven't done any pre-contest dieting since those days so I wasn't used to dropping like that, especially when you're hovering around 260 at 5'11" for a long time) (Also, I have sides, very prevalent ones that include my arms turning into dead logs completely asleep for extended periods even after waking, and.... what I think is CTS - a lot of pain in my right hand knuckles to the point where I have to force my hand open and closed slowly due to pain for about 5-7 minutes each morning till it subsides).

Regarding bloat AFTER IT GOES AWAY AND YOU INCREASE YOUR DOSE AGAIN: I don't know - But was considering an increase if I think I can handle the increased sides that may come. I don't know what to expect. Why should I do more than 4iu/day m-f if I've gotten really lean and hard and feel great?! What is 5 or 6 going to do differently? It seems to me that you've got to get up near 10iu/day to create hyperplasia or more size. I'm really getting out of my realm of experience/knowledge at that dose other than having a couple of IFBB friends that.. well they just are walking pharmacies anyways. I get more out of this site than from them. If they had their way, I'd be taking grams again of AAS. 

I think even though this is an individual thing for hgh...That the bloat goes AWAY before 3 months no matter who you are if you've got HGH.

----------


## Fantomg

PS: After typing behind the scenes shortly with Marcus300 I felt compelled to take the old avatar down. That was myself in the 90's at my best, fairly dry at 225appx 4 weeks out from a big one. I struggle with letting too much ID'ing info out due to the obvious. 

I am in my early 40's now and have a completely different mindset/goals aside from not being anywhere near that conditioning anymore. It was hard letting go of the egotistical part of BBing and become more sensible. I am lucky to have my health and great blood work results after what I did in those days, but there's still some ego that keeps me testing if I can throw up 405 for a double or triple every so often. I have my spotter lie to me about not helping. I'm happy to say that I've gone from about 260 to 230lbs (5'11" but I will lie and say 6) and having to wear a belt with 34" jeans from using and still measure 19 1/2 cold with the guns.
Not trying to hi-jack the thread, this is somewhat about HGH - Yellow Tops from China - and I believe I've got the real deal with maybe, just maybe something added or not quite as pure as Saizen, Genetropin, pens, etc.

Thanks Marcus300 - If that's a recent pic (your Avatar) ya look like ya throw 405lbs (183 Kilos) around for lunch even on a bad day under the bench press. I've got family all over U.K. and my cousin owns a commercial/residential glass company in London. It's been a few years but I need to visit them again. I will have to look you up if I get across the pond soon and hit a work out or two. I'd definitely need a spot from you if we're putting more than 183kilos (405) on the bar for reps. I hit mostly all incline movements now anyways and rarely use more than 365 for 6-8 so you'd have to go easy that day.

Hang on - "Notsmall" - you're there too? That's right... I think we're all about the same age and if you're abs get anymore deep you'd lose an american quarter between them. The gym I'm at currently is infested with softies (no offense to anyone) who think you're crazy if you've put 3 plates on each side or more and might lodge a complaint that you're scaring them, lol. Thought they were going to kick me out for not wearing matching colors. You anywhere near London or Manchester? God I'd like to be there now with this weather here topping 115 fahrenheit during the day and only down to 92 for the low.

----------


## Fantomg

Sorry - but the praise to those guys is for doing, not just saying. When I first got to this board, I got messages telling me how to lift and cycle etc. Some of it was in left field in my opinion. But I listened and was polite.... Then these folk would post a pic and were 150lbs soaking wet and looked like they not only didn't hit the weights, but didn't have a past that included even exercise!?!? - Sorry, not saying one can not have knowledge without looking the part, but when you see someone who's put their talk into proof and grinded their points into fact via the gym, ya command more respect, at least from myself. What looks good and makes sense on paper does NOT always mean it works in the gym. Originally for some reason, it was your guy's geographic location that I was blabbin about, but - Good job,to both of ya. Hope you always get the real deal because ya use it in practical application.

----------


## BJJ

So my wife is about to start tonight her cycle.

We decided she will run Somatrope (Pharma Grade) @ 1.5 iu ed, late evening shot, sub-q, along with 50 mcg of T4.

In 1 week we will know her somatotropin and somatomedin levels via blood work.

----------


## Xtralarg

> So my wife is about to start tonight her cycle.
> 
> We decided she will run Somatrope (Pharma Grade) @ 1.5 iu ed, late evening shot, sub-q, along with 50 mcg of T4.
> 
> In 1 week we will know her somatotropin and somatomedin levels via blood work.


Is she excited about the results?

----------


## BJJ

> Is she excited about the results?


Actually she is worried not to get the good results I got.

----------


## BJJ

^
That's why I started her with a pharma grade HGH, to make her feel more comfortable.

I went in a pharmacy that I know today along with the ampulla and they assured me it is PG Somatropin. This also explains the crazy price!

----------


## Xtralarg

> Actually she is worried not to get the good results I got.


Im sure you will tell her that she has nothing to worry about! I think you will both be happy with the results.

----------


## BJJ

> Im sure you will tell her that she has nothing to worry about! I think you will both be happy with the results.


We'll see  :Wink/Grin: 

By the way, today I injected 17 iu of Hyge.
Hope to have something to tell you tomorrow.

----------


## Xtralarg

> We'll see 
> 
> By the way, today I injected 17 iu of Hyge.
> Hope to have something to tell you tomorrow.


17iu!

Why so much?

You should have some CTS+bloat to report tomorrow!

----------


## BJJ

> 17iu!
> 
> Why so much?
> 
> You should have some CTS+bloat to report tomorrow!


CTS? I do not think so since in holiday I injected 24 iu without problems.

Bloat, probably I will.

Time to sleep.
Buona notte

----------


## BJJ

^
Forgot, I wanted to feel the difference, if any, in comparison to the other brands I used so far.
I mean the reason for the 17 iu.

----------


## Xtralarg

> CTS? I do not think so since in holiday I injected 24 iu without problems.
> 
> Bloat, probably I will.
> 
> Time to sleep.
> Buona notte


Fair enough, I never knew you were injecting so much. Happy bloating!

----------


## NotSmall

> PS: After typing behind the scenes shortly with Marcus300 I felt compelled to take the old avatar down. That was myself in the 90's at my best, fairly dry at 225appx 4 weeks out from a big one. I struggle with letting too much ID'ing info out due to the obvious. 
> 
> I am in my early 40's now and have a completely different mindset/goals aside from not being anywhere near that conditioning anymore. It was hard letting go of the egotistical part of BBing and become more sensible. I am lucky to have my health and great blood work results after what I did in those days, but there's still some ego that keeps me testing if I can throw up 405 for a double or triple every so often. I have my spotter lie to me about not helping. I'm happy to say that I've gone from about 260 to 230lbs (5'11" but I will lie and say 6) and having to wear a belt with 34" jeans from using and still measure 19 1/2 cold with the guns.
> Not trying to hi-jack the thread, this is somewhat about HGH - Yellow Tops from China - and I believe I've got the real deal with maybe, just maybe something added or not quite as pure as Saizen, Genetropin, pens, etc.
> 
> Thanks Marcus300 - If that's a recent pic (your Avatar) ya look like ya throw 405lbs (183 Kilos) around for lunch even on a bad day under the bench press. I've got family all over U.K. and my cousin owns a commercial/residential glass company in London. It's been a few years but I need to visit them again. I will have to look you up if I get across the pond soon and hit a work out or two. I'd definitely need a spot from you if we're putting more than 183kilos (405) on the bar for reps. I hit mostly all incline movements now anyways and rarely use more than 365 for 6-8 so you'd have to go easy that day.
> 
> Hang on - "Notsmall" - you're there too? That's right... I think we're all about the same age and if you're abs get anymore deep you'd lose an american quarter between them. The gym I'm at currently is infested with softies (no offense to anyone) who think you're crazy if you've put 3 plates on each side or more and might lodge a complaint that you're scaring them, lol. Thought they were going to kick me out for not wearing matching colors. You anywhere near London or Manchester? God I'd like to be there now with this weather here topping 115 fahrenheit during the day and only down to 92 for the low.


Thanks for the props mate - those abs took a LONG time to dig out - I used to be one FAT mama jamma! lol There's a thread in the members pics somewhere from 2004 that'll give you some idea, although I had already lost the vast majority of lard before the before pics!
I'm a little bit younger than you old war dogs, lol, I'm only 32 - good job I'm not a woman or you'd be BANG in trouble!
I live way down in the south west of england in cornwall.

----------


## Hazard

I'm considering doing a "NotSmall" style blast...... just at 1/2 the dosage LMAO!

I've been on 8iu's now for about 8 months..... Thinking about starting 20iu's/day for 5 days tomorrow..... then bringing it back down to 8iu's for the remainder of the month. 

I'll be starting test/tren /mast soon so i'd like to get the blast in before the cycle..... any thoughts?

~Haz~

----------


## Hazard

> Thanks for the props mate - those abs took a LONG time to dig out - I used to be one FAT mama jamma! lol There's a thread in the members pics somewhere from 2004 that'll give you some idea, although I had already lost the vast majority of lard before the before pics!
> *I'm a little bit younger than you old war dogs, lol, I'm only 32* - good job I'm not a woman or you'd be BANG in trouble!
> I live way down in the south west of england in cornwall.


you're an old war dog to me  :Wink/Grin:  26 here

Marcus is geriatric to me  :LOL: 

j/k big guy!

~Haz~

----------


## NotSmall

> I'm considering doing a "NotSmall" style blast...... just at 1/2 the dosage LMAO!
> 
> I've been on 8iu's now for about 8 months..... Thinking about starting 20iu's/day for 5 days tomorrow..... then bringing it back down to 8iu's for the remainder of the month. 
> 
> I'll be starting test/tren /mast soon so i'd like to get the blast in before the cycle..... any thoughts?
> 
> ~Haz~


Expect some decent water retention - my ankles swelled RIGHT up, lol, it dropped back off again over the following week though - the CTS was pretty rough the last couple of days and has mostly subsided now but is still more pronounced that before the blast.

The test/tren/mast cycle should be ideal to "mature" any new cells as is the theory - I would run the GH blast during the 1st week of that cycle if I were you - I didn't line mine up like that of course because I got all excited when I heard about these GH blasts and I started it straight away! lol - am running prop/tren/winstrol now though with PEG MGF and lantus slin thrown in for good measure!




> you're an old war dog to me  26 here
> 
> Marcus is geriatric to me 
> 
> j/k big guy!
> 
> ~Haz~


 :Aajack:

----------


## BJJ

> I'm considering doing a "NotSmall" style blast...... just at 1/2 the dosage LMAO!
> 
> I've been on 8iu's now for about 8 months..... Thinking about starting 20iu's/day for 5 days tomorrow..... then bringing it back down to 8iu's for the remainder of the month. 
> 
> I'll be starting test/tren /mast soon so i'd like to get the blast in before the cycle..... any thoughts?
> 
> ~Haz~


Well on holiday lastly I run 20 iu for more than a week and except some water retention I did not see any specific difference from 10 iu.
I slept the same, no CTS, more bloat which subsided after a few days.

I plan also to do a blast cycle one week before and one week during my next cycle but @ 40 iu ed for 14 days.

My theory is, if you want to do it, then do it deeply.
That's the way I am anyway lol...  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## marcus300

> you're an old war dog to me  26 here
> 
> *Marcus is geriatric* to me 
> 
> j/k big guy!
> 
> ~Haz~


haha i know :7up:

----------


## BJJ

Ok 2 things here:

*1st*
Since I am using rHGH (2.5 months) the size of my scrotum increased a lot as well as both testicles, especially the smallest between the two.

Yesterday evening I prepared the vial for the morning after and noticed, for the first time, that as soon as I started to inject the sterile water some powder just disappeared like it happens with HCG .

So, might it be I have HGH mixed with HCG?

I want to cut the head of the bull so next Friday I decided to check also my estrogens levels. In this regard what should I get tested for in order to exclude that I injected HCG?

Estrone, Estradiol, Estriol, Progesterone, Prolactin, or...?

*2nd*
Yesterday evening my wife took her first shot of rHGH pharma grade, 1.5 iu sub-q.
She told me this morning she slept amazingly but the point is she went back to sleep around noon and she is still deeply sleeping!!!

----------


## Xtralarg

Just get a pregnancy test to check for HCG .

It is good that your wife slept so well though

----------


## BJJ

> Just get a pregnancy test to check for HCG .
> 
> It is good that your wife slept so well though


My wife used somatrope and not hyge.tropin

----------


## Xtralarg

> My wife used somatrope and not hyge.tropin


Oh right, can you give her some hyge tonight and see how she sleeps?

----------


## BJJ

> Oh right, can you give her some hyge tonight and see how she sleeps?


Do not know, she has fever now!

----------


## BJJ

Pregnancy test did not come out properly, I just lost 5 iu.
I will go for the BW.

----------


## Hazard

> Expect some decent water retention - my ankles swelled RIGHT up, lol, it dropped back off again over the following week though - the CTS was pretty rough the last couple of days and has mostly subsided now but is still more pronounced that before the blast.
> 
> The test/tren /mast cycle should be ideal to "mature" any new cells as is the theory - I would run the GH blast during the 1st week of that cycle if I were you - I didn't line mine up like that of course because I got all excited when I heard about these GH blasts and I started it straight away! lol - am running prop/tren/winstrol now though with PEG MGF and lantus slin thrown in for good measure!


LOL well my thought is this..... If I run a blast now..... and then another one my 1st or 2nd weeks of the cycle...... i'll have 2 blasts under my belt LMFAO!

Can anything be done about the HGH water retention? It's not really estrogen related to letro/adex wouldn't quite work..... I guess just drink a ton of water and pop a diuretic which i'm not keen on doing. I'll see how bad the bloat is with 20iu's and then i'll go ahead and plan on 40iu's for the next blast.

~Haz~

----------


## BJJ

> LOL well my thought is this..... If I run a blast now..... and then another one my 1st or 2nd weeks of the cycle...... i'll have 2 blasts under my belt LMFAO!
> 
> Can anything be done about the HGH water retention? It's not really estrogen related to letro/adex wouldn't quite work..... I guess just drink a ton of water and pop a diuretic which i'm not keen on doing. I'll see how bad the bloat is with 20iu's and then i'll go ahead and plan on 40iu's for the next blast.
> 
> ~Haz~


Furosemide on hand...

----------


## BignBig

> I'm considering doing a "NotSmall" style blast...... just at 1/2 the dosage LMAO!
> 
> I've been on 8iu's now for about 8 months..... Thinking about starting 20iu's/day for 5 days tomorrow..... then bringing it back down to 8iu's for the remainder of the month. 
> 
> I'll be starting test/tren /mast soon so i'd like to get the blast in before the cycle..... any thoughts?
> 
> ~Haz~


What type of results you achieved in 8iu over 8 months?

----------


## BJJ

Quick update from my Hyge.tropin experience.

I jumped to 12 and 17 iu and noticed a little pang on both of my knees as well as pain in my sole feet. Is that happened to anyone?

Also, if I inject before bed I wake up ripped much much more.

----------


## BJJ

Oh and XL, this staff seems to be legit. Tomorrow anyway, we will know.

Also, I ordered Jin.tropin to compare with Hyge.tropin.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Quick update from my Hyge.tropin experience.
> 
> I jumped to 12 and 17 iu and noticed a little pang on both of my knees as well as pain in my sole feet. Is that happened to anyone?
> 
> Also, if I inject before bed I wake up ripped much much more.





> Oh and XL, this staff seems to be legit. Tomorrow anyway, we will know.
> 
> Also, I ordered Jin.tropin to compare with Hyge.tropin.


What makes you think it is real? Have you experienced those sides before?

----------


## BJJ

> What makes you think it is real? Have you experienced those sides before?


No I did not that is why I was wondering.

Regarding the morning ABS, I had it also with the yellow tops but with this drug is more evident.

----------


## paddy155

Don't mean to go off track guy's edit cant openly ask for source, sorry marcus300

----------


## Hazard

> What type of results you achieved in 8iu over 8 months?


It's helping me keep lean it seems but more importantly..... i've had some really nice upper chest growth which has ALWAYS been a huge problem area for me. Also my arms have gone from 17 1/4 to 18 1/4.

~Haz~

----------


## marcus300

> It's helping me keep lean it seems but more importantly..... i've had some really nice upper chest growth which has ALWAYS been a huge problem area for me. Also my arms have gone* from 17 1/4 to 18 1/4.* 
> ~Haz~


You got women arms Haz ahhhhhhh  :Smilie:

----------


## Xtralarg

> No I did not that is why I was wondering.
> 
> Regarding the morning ABS, I had it also with the yellow tops but with this drug is more evident.


How are the sides?

How much have you had today?

----------


## Hazard

> You got women arms Haz ahhhhhhh


LMAO! Man I already have a complex..... don't make it worse LOL!

I know i've asked you..... but how tall are you and what do you weigh? also.... arm size? Not that i'm comparing or anything lol

~Haz~

----------


## BJJ

> How are the sides?
> 
> How much have you had today?


Hands are less swollen but still I feel it.
Ankles are still pretty full.
Sole feet still hurt.
I had 9 iu today.

Tomorrow again 15 iu because I have my double blood work to take, 5 iu sub-q then 5 iu IM and 5 iu before bed.  :Wink/Grin: 
I am sure there will be no surprise, this staff is good.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Hands are less swollen but still I feel it.
> Ankles are still pretty full.
> Sole feet still hurt.
> I had 9 iu today.
> 
> Tomorrow again 15 iu because I have my double blood work to take, 5 iu sub-q then 5 iu IM and 5 iu before bed. 
> I am sure there will be no surprise, this staff is good.


Would you say that in comparison the the ohter rHGH you have had that it better/same/worse?

----------


## BJJ

> Would you say that in comparison the the ohter rHGH you have had that it better/same/worse?


It is better lol, definitely.

----------


## Xtralarg

> It is better lol, definitely.


Thats good news. Are the sides bearable or are you struggling with them?

----------


## NotSmall

> LMAO! Man I already have a complex..... don't make it worse LOL!
> 
> I know i've asked you..... but how tall are you and what do you weigh? also.... *cock size*? Not that i'm comparing or anything lol
> 
> ~Haz~


 :EEK!:

----------


## BJJ

> Thats good news. Are the sides bearable or are you struggling with them?


Yes they are, no problem at all.

----------


## Hazard

> 


I got everyone beat in that area..... 

~Haz~

----------


## Xtralarg

This thread is going to become a DSM magnet!

----------


## BignBig

> It's helping me keep lean it seems but more importantly..... i've had some really nice upper chest growth which has ALWAYS been a huge problem area for me. Also my arms have gone from 17 1/4 to 18 1/4.
> 
> ~Haz~


18 1/4 is impressive ... Well done

----------


## BJJ

bump

----------


## Xtralarg

So BJJ, how are you today? 

Are you still feeling like the rHGH is working its magic by the day?

----------


## BJJ

I am tired like if I am sick.
I just woke up I slept 2 hours.
This morning I went to get the BW, maybe 2 of them made tired, they sucked up 100 ml in 2 times.

----------


## Xtralarg

Sorry to hear that.

How did you feel before the blood was taken?

How are the sides?

----------


## BJJ

I woke up tired today, maybe because I woke up earlier.
The sides are still there, either hands, ankles and sole feet but my knees do not hurt anymore.

----------


## Hazard

So far i'm on day 2 of 20iu's..... No cts sides yet but my knees feel tired all frickin day long. Knuckles feel swollen too..... also..... i'm pretty tired all damn day long but it's hard to fall asleep at night. My last injection is 5iu's at around 8pm.

~Haz~

----------


## P3rf3ctionist

> Do you feel like you are retining a lot of water?
> 
> Any numbness, CTS etc?


Just an update, the numbness has improved, mainly restricted to the morning now.

Also XT, bloat has gone down drastically in the past 10 days or so. 

Had full bloods done on Wednesday, waiting for the results to come back so I can begin the T4.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Just an update, the numbness has improved, mainly restricted to the morning now.
> 
> Also XT, bloat has gone down drastically in the past 10 days or so. 
> 
> Had full bloods done on Wednesday, waiting for the results to come back so I can begin the T4.


Its good news that the bloat has gone and CTS has improved. Did you get your somatropin levels checked when you had your bloods done?

Are you using pharma grade rHGH?

----------


## P3rf3ctionist

> Its good news that the bloat has gone and CTS has improved. Did you get your somatropin levels checked when you had your bloods done?
> 
> Are you using pharma grade rHGH?


Yup XT, requested I have my somatropin levels checked the results are meant to be in on Monday morning, also XT my AAS cycle is meant to commence on the 3rd of August. I'm intending of supplementing during the whole duration of the 10week bulker with 100mcg of T4 and 20mcg of T3, any opinion? Will be stopping the T4+T3 in week 8 when i stop the Tren .

It's Chinese rHGH and I have read everybody's concern in the the other thread, I'm very confident that the stuff I have is 100% legit as my supplier is the most reliable person to get rHGH and from the s/e i've experienced so far are consistent with exogenous rHGH administration but at my college I know a few people in the chemistry department so I will be getting a vial tested by high performance liquid chromatography (HPLC) and a particular infrared spectroscopy technique called absorption spectroscopy. I'm still in the process of arranging the time and date of when the tests will occur.

----------


## BJJ

> Yup XT, requested I have my somatropin levels checked the results are meant to be in on Monday morning, also XT my AAS cycle is meant to commence on the 3rd of August. I'm intending of supplementing during the whole duration of the 10week bulker with 100mcg of T4 and 20mcg of T3, any opinion? Will be stopping the T4+T3 in week 8 when i stop the Tren .
> 
> It's Chinese rHGH and I have read everybody's concern in the the other thread, I'm very confident that the stuff I have is 100% legit as my supplier is the most reliable person to get rHGH and from the s/e i've experienced so far are consistent with exogenous rHGH administration but at *my college I know a few people in the chemistry department so I will be getting a vial tested by high performance liquid chromatography (HPLC) and a particular infrared spectroscopy technique called absorption spectroscopy. I'm still in the process of arranging the time and date of when the tests will occur.*


good call

----------


## Xtralarg

> Yup XT, requested I have my somatropin levels checked the results are meant to be in on Monday morning, also XT my AAS cycle is meant to commence on the 3rd of August. I'm intending of supplementing during the whole duration of the 10week bulker with 100mcg of T4 and 20mcg of T3, any opinion? Will be stopping the T4+T3 in week 8 when i stop the Tren .
> 
> It's Chinese rHGH and I have read everybody's concern in the the other thread, I'm very confident that the stuff I have is 100% legit as my supplier is the most reliable person to get rHGH and from the s/e i've experienced so far are consistent with exogenous rHGH administration but at my college I know a few people in the chemistry department so I will be getting a vial tested by high performance liquid chromatography (HPLC) and a particular infrared spectroscopy technique called absorption spectroscopy. I'm still in the process of arranging the time and date of when the tests will occur.


Will your friend produce a detailed report or just give you the thumbs up/down?

----------


## BJJ

^^^
I hope for the first option P3rf3ctionist.

----------


## SuperBird

Ive been surfin this forum for a very very long time. but today i post for the first time because i lost my original id and i think this HGH log is a good idea for a thread. its not quite thoroughly definitive yet but its surely on its way. 

Ive been juicin for 20 years, and just this past month i took interest in HGH. And for as long as i been juicin it up, i made a rookies maneuver and purchased HGH before i did enough homework. Im pretty sure i wasted a few hundred dollars on green top 8iu's, enough for only three weeks even. which i have been doing at 4iu per day. the quality is there, just the amount is not. way too expensive to jump to 16iu per day. 4iu per day for only three weeks is quite a hefty bill its self.

Im 42, 243 pounds with a thick stomach (always temporary when bulking). i am fortunate in the fact that my body hyper-responds to any diet i implement. if i want to be 60 pounds heavier in muscle in three months i can do it easy, and if i want to be skinny i can do that as well. im just fortunate in my genetic body response. its freakish really. 

my deal is fina and test. thats what my body loves. but.. after starting my HGH and reading this thread. it seems that the consensus is that it basically takes 16iu 4days on 2 days off repeating to get significant anabolic gains..... and thats AFTER 7 months of use. and that anything less is decent for fat loss and the secondary youth effects. its my opinion that for hundreds of dollars less per month i can utilize clenbuterol , L-Carnatine, cardio and a decent diet to shed fat. ive been doing the 4iu for three weeks now along with proviron in a mix with my test enanthe 250 every 2 days and my fat is coming off not so dramatically. and i use plenty of clen and carnatine. 4 tabs of clen and 2 caps of carnatine at cardio time. so if im not going to see gains, it has been less than exciting performance for what i paid for a months worth. *** what i have certainly noticed immediately on HGH is swollen oily glands on both sides of the nose and terribly tired daily. i did start out with headaches but that went away after couple days. just mostly oily facial skin and severe sleepiness. maybe another month and the fat loss is more impressive, but i dont want to invest another couple hundred for that lone benefit. also, maybe its just that im not on the nolvadex but my frontal hair loss is also at defcon 4. but the past couple years, my pct has been garbage. ive suffered lots of side effects but not so radical, crap that just comes with age. except that fina dick crap, i hate that. i hear about caber but i dont know where to get it, (i wish a little birdy would send me a message and save my day) i hear good things about it. 

anyhow....
im 43 (next week) in todays world thats still a puppy. i know 70yr olds pumped on gear.
243 pounds
thick stomach/gut
lifter for 20 years
currently the past month...
test enanthe 300 every 2 days - knowing all UG lab products boast more mg than it actually has by 30 percent. 
HGH 1 morning shot of 4iu, four days on and 2 days off - 4 days on 2 days off.... 
proviron 1 tab daily - for synergistic mechanism between HGH and Testosterone . should have t4 but dont. knowing t4 converts to t3, but i have none. 
1 spoon creatine mono daily
4 40mcg tabs twice daily of clenbuterol (9am and 3pm) every other day,... let the heart relax. 
2 500 mg caps of L-Carnatine half hour before cardio every other day (3 day a week). i believe jay cutler uses 3 caps half hour before cardio.
200 to 250 or more grams protein: consisting of- canned tuna and chicken breast and protein powder each day. red meat is hard to get where im at. 
water, coke zero, 100 percent pure fresh orange juice, propel orange and milk are my only liquids most often. unless you know of buko juice. 
no fried food. regular minimal daily greens and cup of rice each day. no white bread. few few few carbs. pasta once a week. wheat bread only. 
(***i do put mayonnaise in my tuna - lots !!!! go ahead... throw rocks at me) but its absolutely my only fat intake. tuna/mayo/sugarless wheat bread. do what ya gotta do.

my body size is down because i was hospitalized but im back in the gym now.
this past three weeks my shoulders and arms and chest have bulked back up yet my weight remained at 243, so its safe to say i lost 10 pounds at least because as well my stomach has sunken in on the sides. But after this three weeks, how much was credited to the HGH? i dont know, because i can do this on juice only with test 300. so to me, i wonder if the HGH is even worth it if your not doing 16iu per day. my fat loss has not been fantastic compared to any year of training before this month. i actually look forward to coming off GH so my skin will dry up around my nose and i get my full days energy back. 

now as i said earlier about fina and test. I WILL put on 20 pounds of solid muscle per month on fina and test enanthe each month with substantial fat loss. so why do i consider the HGH? for ten times the price? i dont know what i was thinking. i dont know if its worth 600 hundred bucks a month to lose minor crows feet around the eyes. and test itself will roll the fat off if you have a good diet. 

after this cycle i will post what i got out of the HGH for the rookie users who walk behind me (in a much shorter post  :Smilie:  ). 

this is a great thread and im glad to see it. but it will be better when it developes its short list of certainties in a sticky. for example...

what i think ive learned and each rookie should know. quickly correct what im wrong about.....

1. for substantially noticeable anabolic gains HGH 16iu daily will need to be done for 7 months along with proviron and a form of Testosterone.
2. anything less than 8iu daily will most likely be a waste for the novice or even intermediate without a STRICT diet regimen. lousy diet will just destroy the GH fat burning process leaving lousy anabolic performance from only 8iu.
3. 4iu daily will pretty much be of weight loss value only and long term benefit at that, maybe five months at least. and not fantastically impressive. especially if its rookie body building diet.....(sluffing down a cheese burger here and there).

^^^^ if those things were stickied in an HGH post.... i wouldnt have bought the kit i did. but live, read, and learn. (or lose bucks on your own)

im thoroughly experienced in all juices, but this round with HGH is my first. i hope we can all share some excellent info in this thread, and please without hesitance correct any of my wrongs, and enlighten me where you can. 

I have six months of fina just staring me in the face here, but i get severely depressed when i use it because of the limpdick trauma. i really want on it as soon as this cycle of HGH is over, but i cry thinking about it. (oh how i wish i could find some caber  :Wink:  i want to try that stuff so bad). im just now recovering from fina limpdick trauma from four months ago, i had no pct fixer. so i hate the thought of going through it again. and so does my girl. 

dont give me too hard of a time..... im just trying to be productive here and give what i can ya know. i hope i offered something creative in some way.


*** oh, and also... for the past month, i have to get up and pee every half hour of the night. GRRRRRRRRR !!!! i hate that.

----------


## BJJ

^^^
You had something to write about lol...

4 Questions:

1. What is the name of the green tops you used? (remember not to mention any source)
2. Why are you using that amount of proteins? 1 g per pound
3. Why did not you take into account T4?
4. Any blood work to share?

By the way, welcome to the forum.

----------


## boss4romdabay

im going into my 3rd week of 3iu a week and im cutting but have gone up like 4 lbs. how long will the water gain be here?

----------


## Xtralarg

> im going into my 3rd week of 3iu a week and im cutting but have gone up like 4 lbs. how long will the water gain be here?


If you keep the dose the same then is should be subsiding soon, if you increase the dose then it may return though.

----------


## SuperBird

> ^^^
> You had something to write about lol...
> 
> 4 Questions:
> 
> 1. What is the name of the green tops you used? (remember not to mention any source)
> 2. Why are you using that amount of proteins? 1 g per pound
> 3. Why did not you take into account T4?
> 4. Any blood work to share?
> ...



haha, yea i do like to be thorough.  :Big Grin:  

1. (wont let me put a name). Lets just say it starts with H. comes from china. has verification number. tops are actually turquoise. (can i give price?).
2. I think i misled you in protein grms in the wording so i edited it. Im spending some time in asia right now, so canned tuna, native chicken breast and protein shakes is all the quality protein i can get. combined daily is 200 to 250 grms protein daily. but sometimes i end up with more protein daily just because of hunger. i might eat another can of tuna and half loaf of wheat bread before bed. 
3. I didnt take the T4 because i had everything else already, and i couldnt locate any T4. and i didnt have enough posts here to privately request a source. so I went on without it. 
4. as far as bloodwork, i went into the hospital to get the blood drawn for the work, and the bill was 200 dollars. man, i wasnt prepared for that, so i said lets hold off on that until i have it on me next time. i had only 120 bucks with me that day and thought that would cover it. 
that blood work is really important to monitor for sure, its nice to know why certain things are happening in the body and where to make changes. 

Thanks......

----------


## SuperBird

> im going into my 3rd week of 3iu a week and im cutting but have gone up like 4 lbs. how long will the water gain be here?


Youre cutting on 3iu a week? 

Im suspecting your already radically loaded on natural GH. your under 25. lots of cardio and pure protein and veggie diet? 

 :Big Grin:

----------


## Xtralarg

> haha, yea i do like to be thorough.  
> 
> 1. (wont let me put a name). Lets just say it starts with H. comes from china. has verification number. tops are actually turquoise. (can i give price?).
> Thanks......


No price talk allowed, have the tops got a pinwheel on them or hyge 8iu?

----------


## SuperBird

> No price talk allowed, have the tops got a pinwheel on them or hyge 8iu?


yup. pinwheel. i tried to put the long name of hyge but it got censored.

----------


## Xtralarg

> yup. pinwheel. i tried to put the long name of hyge but it got censored.


They are not real hyges, real ones have the word hygexxxxxx and then 8iu's on the tops.

----------


## boss4romdabay

> Youre cutting on 3iu a week? 
> 
> Im suspecting your already radically loaded on natural GH. your under 25. lots of cardio and pure protein and veggie diet?


dont get what you mean! are you being sarcastic?  :Hmmmm:

----------


## boss4romdabay

> If you keep the dose the same then is should be subsiding soon, if you increase the dose then it may return though.


damn, well im going up to 4iu at the end of next week so i guess i'll have to deal with it!

----------


## dec11

> Ive never done short burst cycles, ie 4/5/6 weeks..
> 
> I usually run cycles for 12/14 weeks...
> 
> I you thinking that throwing a number of short burst cycles in there would be of some benefit???


i did a short blast with prop and tren a recently, def the best results ive had so far, although i made the mistake of dropping straight down to my trt dose after and crashed alittle

----------


## hankdiesel

8iu a day is not the minimum dose to see decent results. I'm sure many would agree.

----------


## SuperBird

> They are not real hyges, real ones have the word hygexxxxxx and then 8iu's on the tops.


the real ones have the full name and 8iu on the turquoise plastic cap? that name can fit on that little cap? all mine has on the caps is a pinwheel. now all i can do is stare at this little bottle. 

good grief. a sincere thanks for ruining my day.  :Big Grin:

----------


## SuperBird

> dont get what you mean! are you being sarcastic?


no no, im not being sarcastic. im just saying, its my understanding that you must do at least 4iu on a 4day on 2 day off (varied) weekly cycle continuous to substantially cut. and i read you are doing 3iu a week. before Xtrlrg informed me i was doing bogus product i was doing 4iu on that cycle and wasnt trimming down much more than i would on general juice and diet. so 3iu just seemed a bit minuscule. its only my thought, and my knowledge on HGh is minimal. for sure dont take anything i say about HGH to heart because im no authority at all, with really no experience. so i was merely playfully throwing you a question/statement. but the reason i said under 25, loaded with natural GH and veggie diet is because on that kind of scenario im sure it wouldnt take much im sure anyhow.  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## BignBig

> i did a short blast with prop and tren a recently, def the best results ive had so far, although i made the mistake of dropping straight down to my trt dose after and crashed alittle


Can you share whith us the dosage of HGH and the cycle details pls?  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## BJJ

> 8iu a day is not the minimum dose to see decent results. I'm sure many would agree.


I do

----------


## Xtralarg

> the real ones have the full name and 8iu on the turquoise plastic cap? that name can fit on that little cap? all mine has on the caps is a pinwheel. now all i can do is stare at this little bottle. 
> 
> good grief. a sincere thanks for ruining my day.


Yes that is correct and the name does all fit on, try google images and im sure you will find them.

Sorry to bring you this bad news.

----------


## BJJ

A few considerations:

1.
Since two days I started to ingest T3 @ 25 mcg along with T4 @ 150 mcg.
The daily tiredness has gone and in the morning I wake up with more energy.

2.
My wife suspended the ingestion of T4 @ 50 mcg daily just yesterday evening.
This morning she woke up without bloat.

----------


## Xtralarg

> A few considerations:
> 
> 1.
> Since two days I started to ingest T3 @ 25 mcg along with T4 @ 150 mcg.
> The daily tiredness has gone and in the morning I wake up with more energy.
> 
> 2.My wife suspended the ingestion of T4 @ 50 mcg daily just yesterday evening.
> This morning she woke up without bloat.


1. If that is the case then I suspect that you were either not having enough T4 or too much T4 as both hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism can make you feel tired. 

2. People suffering from both hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism experience water retention problems, maybe your wife does not need 50mcg of T4 with 1.8iu's of rHGH or she may need more? Has she had her bloods done whilst taking this amount of rHGH?

----------


## BJJ

> 1. If that is the case then I suspect that you were either not having enough T4 or too much T4 as both hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism can make you feel tired. 
> 
> 2. People suffering from both hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism experience water retention problems, maybe your wife does not need 50mcg of T4 with 1.8iu's of rHGH or she may need more? Has she had her bloods done whilst taking this amount of rHGH?


Regarding my wife, she took the last T4 the evening before she got her first blood work.
I made her check either TSH, FT3, FT4 and IGF-1 and HGH.

In this way, we will know if the Somatrope is working and her thyroid levels to compare to those before starting the cycle.

In the mean while, she will keep running that amount of rHGH for a month without any thyroid support.

----------


## Hazard

Here's my thought of the HGH blasting protocol......

I've been doing 20iu's/day for 5 days and my stretch marks under my armpits and near my chest are all purple again. Now i'm not saying I grew exponentially from HGH as i'm also on 750mg's test but I do believe there is something to this. I definately feel waaaayyyyyy more full also.....

NS has the idea with 40iu's/day for 5 days..... the 20iu's I felt was beneficial but the 40iu's i'm sure would be much much better.

One thing I was thinking about..... If a blasting protocol does prove to be beneficial..... could it also be beneficial for someone who can't afford months and months of 8+iu/day HGH treatment? Could a 5 day 200iu blast (40iu/day) be beneficial? Would it be enough to cause hyperplasia? This way someone could purchase 200iu's instead of 1000iu's and actually see something from it or would there need to be a build up?

~Haz~

----------


## SuperBird

> Yes that is correct and the name does all fit on, try google images and im sure you will find them.
> 
> Sorry to bring you this bad news.


well, live and learn. thats life.

----------


## Hazard

Here's a question i'd like some opinions on.....

If your cortisol levels are high in the morning..... would taking HGH at night keep the cortisol levels from raising in the 1st place?

I'm experiencing better effects taking my HGH around 12-2pm in the afternoon and again at 8pm. 

~Haz~

----------


## Xtralarg

> Here's a question i'd like some opinions on.....
> 
> If your cortisol levels are high in the morning..... would taking HGH at night keep the cortisol levels from raising in the 1st place?
> 
> I'm experiencing better effects taking my HGH around 12-2pm in the afternoon and again at 8pm. 
> 
> ~Haz~


I doubt it would help due to the short half life of rHGH. It's a good idea to have a shot early AM though when the levels are high.

What better effects are you experiencing?

----------


## Hazard

> I doubt it would help due to the short half life of rHGH. It's a good idea to have a shot early AM though when the levels are high.
> 
> What better effects are you experiencing?


I'm waking up full and veiny..... my body feels refreshed but it does seem to be hindering my sleep a bit.

Once I switched to an 8pm 4iu shot..... all my sides came back. Mild cts tho.... nothing crippling.

~Haz~

----------


## Xtralarg

> I'm waking up full and veiny..... my body feels refreshed but it does seem to be hindering my sleep a bit.
> 
> Once I switched to an 8pm 4iu shot..... all my sides came back. Mild cts tho.... nothing crippling.
> 
> ~Haz~


Hindering your sleep....are you taking t4 at night?

Are you experiencing the CTS mainly at night?

----------


## dec11

> Can you share whith us the dosage of HGH and the cycle details pls?


wasnt on hgh

250mg test e (trt)
350mg test prop
350mg tren a

9wks on prop, tren intro'd at wk 2.5

----------


## boss4romdabay

> no no, im not being sarcastic. im just saying, its my understanding that you must do at least 4iu on a 4day on 2 day off (varied) weekly cycle continuous to substantially cut. and i read you are doing 3iu a week. before Xtrlrg informed me i was doing bogus product i was doing 4iu on that cycle and wasnt trimming down much more than i would on general juice and diet. so 3iu just seemed a bit minuscule. its only my thought, and my knowledge on HGh is minimal. for sure dont take anything i say about HGH to heart because im no authority at all, with really no experience. so i was merely playfully throwing you a question/statement. but the reason i said under 25, loaded with natural GH and veggie diet is because on that kind of scenario im sure it wouldnt take much im sure anyhow.


ok well if you would have read my complete post you would have read where i said i was only "3 weeks in at 3iu" if i could start higher i would, and im going 7 days a week  :Nutkick:

----------


## Hazard

> Hindering your sleep....are you taking t4 at night?
> 
> Are you experiencing the CTS mainly at night?


No T4 yet..... ordering it in a couple weeks.

Also, the cts is all day long. At night it feels like my joints and muscles are tired. I become restless and feel like I can't relax..... I sleep for maybe 3 hours and then wake up. After 90mins of trying to sleep again, I do, but for another 2-3 hours. Yet I wake up feeling refreshed.....

The biggest thing so far is that my knees feel constantly tired..... and it feels like someone is squeezing my calves.....

~Haz~

----------


## Xtralarg

> No T4 yet..... ordering it in a couple weeks.
> 
> Also, the cts is all day long. At night it feels like my joints and muscles are tired. I become restless and feel like I can't relax..... I sleep for maybe 3 hours and then wake up. After 90mins of trying to sleep again, I do, but for another 2-3 hours. Yet I wake up feeling refreshed.....
> 
> The biggest thing so far is that my knees feel constantly tired..... and it feels like someone is squeezing my calves.....
> 
> ~Haz~


Well I can honestly say that i have never suffered like that whilst using gh. I sleep like a baby all night long! I have suffered with joint pain but not as bad as you by the sound of it. How many iu's are you on? Are you taking anything else?

----------


## Hazard

> Well I can honestly say that i have never suffered like that whilst using gh. I sleep like a baby all night long! I have suffered with joint pain but not as bad as you by the sound of it. How many iu's are you on? Are you taking anything else?


This didn't start happening until I started taking PM shots.....

I just got done with a 20iu blast and went back to 8iu's yesterday. This is probably why I have the cts again but it's the chronic fatigue in my joints thats bothering me..... not so much pain.

I'll continue at 8iu's and stop PM shots and see if it gets better.

~Haz~

----------


## Hazard

BTW - i'm currently only on test right now.....

~Haz~

----------


## marcus300

> No T4 yet..... ordering it in a couple weeks.
> 
> Also, the cts is all day long. At night it feels like my joints and muscles are tired. I become restless and feel like I can't relax..... I sleep for maybe 3 hours and then wake up. After 90mins of trying to sleep again, I do, but for another 2-3 hours. Yet I wake up feeling refreshed.....
> 
> The biggest thing so far is that my knees feel constantly tired..... and it feels like someone is squeezing my calves.....
> 
> ~Haz~


How do you know what your taking, your taking unlabled vials of white powder from China.

Can you not get it tested to see what it contains?

----------


## Reed

freakin a. nice thread. pretty hefty doses of gh it seems. I'm jealous, wish I could even afford the shit.

Good luck will be following

----------


## Xtralarg

> This didn't start happening until I started taking PM shots.....
> 
> I just got done with a 20iu blast and went back to 8iu's yesterday. This is probably why I have the cts again but it's the chronic fatigue in my joints thats bothering me..... not so much pain.
> 
> I'll continue at 8iu's and stop PM shots and see if it gets better.
> 
> ~Haz~


No wonder you're suffering so much if you're taking 20ius! Your joints should ease off now you've dropped back down to a dose if 8ius.

----------


## BJJ

Yesterday i got my first BW and my estradiol reached 97 pg/ml (20 - 47) while PRL 10,32 ng/ml (2,64 - 13,13).

So, I thought it was due to the estrogen rebound since my PCT is now over and not taking nolva anymore.

But, how do I know if it is not also due to some other drugs included into the vial of rHGH?

For example, my ankles since a few weeks already were really swollen. Yesterday, after having looked at the BW, I decided to take either 25 mg of Exemestane as well as 0.5 mg of Cabergoline. This morning, my ankles are normal for the first time, no water anymore, I can see all the veins again.

I thought a diuretic could have caused this, like furosemide, if due to water retention from rHGH.
The point is I did not take a diuretic but an AI. So?  :Hmmmm:

----------


## Xtralarg

> Yesterday i got my first BW and my estradiol reached 97 pg/ml (20 - 47) while PRL 10,32 ng/ml (2,64 - 13,13).
> 
> So, I thought it was due to the estrogen rebound since my PCT is now over and not taking nolva anymore.
> 
> But, how do I know if it is not also due to some other drugs included into the vial of rHGH?
> 
> For example, my ankles since a few weeks already were really swollen. Yesterday, after having looked at the BW, I decided to take either 25 mg of Exemestane as well as 0.5 mg of Cabergoline. This morning, my ankles are normal for the first time, no water anymore, I can see all the veins again.
> 
> I thought a diuretic could have caused this, like furosemide, if due to water retention from rHGH.
> The point is I did not take a diuretic but an AI. So?


This doesnt sound good BJJ.

Correct me if I am wrong but did you not say that your ankles we not swollen before you took the hyge?

I hope I am worng here and that the water was already there?

What were your somatropin levles in your blood?

This once again highlights the need to get our vials of rHGH tested, did you have any luck finding a lab to do this?

----------


## BJJ

> This doesnt sound good BJJ.
> 
> Correct me if I am wrong but did you not say that your ankles we not swollen before you took the hyge?
> 
> I hope I am worng here and that the water was already there?
> 
> What were your somatropin levles in your blood?
> 
> This once again highlights the need to get our vials of rHGH tested, did you have any luck finding a lab to do this?


Actually they were already swollen but with the hyge they increased the water retention a lot more. So, the water was already there from another brand, yes.

I await both somatotropin and somatomedin during the day I hope, in case tomorrow.

Agree, we need to test a vial. Unfortunately, no good news in regard of a lab otherwise I would have told you about.
I keep searching for...

----------


## Xtralarg

> Actually they were already swollen but with the hyge they increased the water retention a lot more. So, the water was already there from another brand, yes.
> 
> I await both somatotropin and somatomedin during the day I hope, in case tomorrow.
> 
> Agree, we need to test a vial. Unfortunately, no good news in regard of a lab otherwise I would have told you about.
> I keep searching for...


Ok well I think we should wait for the somatropin and somatomedin blood levels to come back and then take it from there, agree?

Has anyone else got anywhere with regards to finding a lab? 

Notsmall did the lab you were talking to not get back to you?

----------


## BJJ

> Ok well I think we should wait for the somatropin and somatomedin blood levels to come back and then take it from there, agree?
> 
> Has anyone else got anywhere with regards to finding a lab? 
> 
> Notsmall did the lab you were talking to not get back to you?


Yes, I guess so.
I just called the lab and I was told in the afternoon I will receive my results.
I will post them ASAP.

----------


## BJJ

*rHGH BRANDS QUALITY BLOOD CHECK*

IGF-1: *135* ng/ml [96 - 494]_____________*238*________________________________*461*__________________*520* (after 40' via IM: *521*)
HGH: *0,3* ng/ml [0,0 - 10]_______________*11,1*______________*10,5*______________*22,2*_________________*25,7* (after 40' via IM: *36,3*)

.................................................. ........*EuroHormones*
.................................................. .....................................*Generic Green*
.................................................. .................................................. .............*HardCoreGrowth*
.................................................. .................................................. ................................................*Hyge.tropin*

*Notes:*
Injection time: 5:30 am (euroh./green/hardc.g.), 6 am (hyge.)
Days on the same drug before testing: 7 (all four types)
Blood work time: 8:00 am (all four types)
Amount injected: 4 iu (euroh./green) - 5 iu (hardc.g./hyge.)
Injection site: umbilical (euroh.) - oblique (green/hardc.g./hyge.)
Injection type: sub-q (all four types)

----------


## BJJ

^^^

The only brand able to raise my IGF-1 beyond the max range available for my age was Hyge.tropin.

This is a fact, not an assumption.

----------


## fossilfuel7

> ^^^
> 
> The only brand able to raise my IGF-1 beyond the max range available for my age was Hyge.tropin.
> 
> This is a fact, not an assumption.




BJJ thanks for posting this. Not a surprise at all after my experience with Riptropin.

It looks like the Hyge's barely got you out of the normal range.

I think the bigger picture is almost finished being painted regarding Chinese GH.

----------


## BJJ

> BJJ thanks for posting this. Not a surprise at all after my experience with Riptropin.
> 
> It looks like the Hyge's barely got you out of the normal range. *unfortunately*
> 
> *I think the bigger picture is almost finished being painted regarding Chinese GH.*


^^^
Sorry, what do you mean by that?

----------


## BJJ

By the way, I await my wife's results within a few days.

Her somatrope should bring out, in proportion, much better results.

----------


## NotSmall

> BJJ thanks for posting this. Not a surprise at all after my experience with Riptropin.
> 
> It looks like the Hyge's barely got you out of the normal range.
> 
> I think the bigger picture is almost finished being painted regarding Chinese GH.


How was your test administered and what were the values you posted before?

----------


## Hazard

> How do you know what your taking, your taking unlabled vials of white powder from China.
> 
> Can you not get it tested to see what it contains?


Thats the thing..... I'm just reporting how i'm feeling right now. I can't pay $1000 to have it tested at the moment.....

~Haz~

----------


## Xtralarg

So BJJ, your HGH levels are elivated higher than beofre. What are your thoughts?

----------


## BJJ

> So BJJ, your HGH levels are elivated higher than beofre. What are your thoughts?


Well, surely Hyge is the best brand I used so far but I want to see my wife's results on Somatrope because my IGF-1 did not shoot up much.

I never used so far a pharma grade brand, so I have no idea how better my somatomedin levels could have been but my feelings are there is a better rHGH out there, even if not pharma grade.

I want to try Jintropin now and compare it with Hyge.tropin.

I need to find a better somatropin for my next cycle.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Well, surely Hyge is the best brand I used so far but I want to see my wife's results on Somatrope because my IGF-1 did not shoot up much.
> 
> I never used so far a pharma grade brand, so I have no idea how better my somatomedin levels could have been but my feelings are there is a better rHGH out there, even if not pharma grade.
> 
> I want to try Jintropin now and compare it with Hyge.tropin.
> 
> I need to find a better somatropin for my next cycle.


Well at least your results are heading in the right direction, I have a feeling than Jin may be better than Hyge but we shall have to wait and see. 

When will you be comparing the Jino?

----------


## SlimmerMe

I am on pharma grade ( omnitrope) and my levels hardly went up at all- from 99 to 116 after almost 3 months---however I am also on a lot of other stuff too---BHRT and armour

----------


## BJJ

> Well at least your results are heading in the right direction, I have a feeling than Jin may be better than Hyge but we shall have to wait and see. 
> 
> When will you be comparing the Jino?


I think not before the beginning of September.
I am still waiting for the Jin to arrive.

----------


## BJJ

By the way, is not Jintropin the same brand used by Stallone?

----------


## marcus300

> *rHGH BRANDS QUALITY BLOOD CHECK*
> 
> IGF-1: *135* ng/ml [96 - 494]_____________*238*________________________________*461*__________________*520* (after 40' via IM: *521*)
> HGH: *0,3* ng/ml [0,0 - 10]_______________*11,1*______________*10,5*______________*22,2*_________________*25,7* (after 40' via IM: *36,3*)
> 
> .................................................. ........*EuroHormones*
> .................................................. .....................................*Generic Green*
> .................................................. .................................................. .............*HardCoreGrowth*
> .................................................. .................................................. ................................................*Hyge.tropin*
> ...


From looking at your blood test from various brands is looks like there is no consistancy between the stated amount in each vial. 10ius of gh should be 10ius no matter what brand it is but from reading your results its really looks like there are many different qualities.

The only way to use gh IMHO is to go to a manufacturer who is licenced by athourities and not some underground lab which isnt regulated in anyway.

Would you eat dog sh1t if it was the 10th of the price of steak but looked the same  :Smilie:

----------


## BJJ

> From looking at your blood test from various brands is looks like there is no consistancy between the stated amount in each vial. 10ius of gh should be 10ius no matter what brand it is but from reading your results its really looks like there are many different qualities.
> 
> The only way to use gh IMHO is to go to a manufacturer who is licenced by athourities and not some underground lab which isnt regulated in anyway.
> 
> Would you eat dog sh1t if it was the 10th of the price of steak but looked the same


You are perfectly right?

Have you ever used Jintropin?

----------


## marcus300

> You are perfectly right?
> 
> Have you ever used Jintropin?


The last time I used jin's was 5yrs ago, they were great

----------


## Xtralarg

> From looking at your blood test from various brands is looks like there is no consistancy between the stated amount in each vial. 10ius of gh should be 10ius no matter what brand it is but from reading your results its really looks like there are many different qualities.
> 
> The only way to use gh IMHO is to go to a manufacturer who is licenced by athourities and not some underground lab which isnt regulated in anyway.
> 
> Would you eat dog sh1t if it was the 10th of the price of steak but looked the same


Well Marcus you have an unusual way of comparing things but I think I understand what you are trying to say.

Of course the only way to be sure is to buy a licensed product, I guess many people cannot afford that and are therefore tempted to opt for the cheaper product, are they throwing good money after bad? Only a lab report can tell us that!

----------


## Xtralarg

> You are perfectly right?
> 
> Have you ever used Jintropin?


I used it about 4 years ago, it is some of the best gh I have ever used.

----------


## Hazard

> Would you eat dog sh1t if it was the 10th of the price of steak but looked the same


A little extreme there..... I'd say It's like comparing filet mignon to shell steak. Both are steak..... both come from a cow..... but one is obviously better than the other.

Lets not forget why there is a generic HGH market. EVERYONE on this planet would rather have pharma grade HGH but they can't afford it..... hence the generics that are out. Sure they may not be of the best quality..... but IF and I say IF they contain real HGH - it's a better deal.

If I had the money to lab test mine I would. When that time comes.... if it tests to be real HGH than i'd rather stick with that than pay extra for pharm grade.

~Haz~

----------


## BJJ

> The last time I used jin's was 5yrs ago, they were great





> I used it about 4 years ago, it is some of the best gh I have ever used.


Great to know, I am looking forward to try it as well.

XL, did you start using...

----------


## Matt

I agree with Marcus and XL..

However im not in a position to test my gh so i shall continue to take it until it runs out. When the time comes i will only buy pharma, why risk anything else??

Ive been on 4ius for a couple of weeks now injecting 7/7 and ive bloated quite badly, my sleep is awesome but the numbness in the arms and hands is alittle bad..

----------


## fossilfuel7

> ^^^
> Sorry, what do you mean by that?


What I mean is that most Chinese GH is not of good quality but, some brands are ok.

I know a guy who had higher levels using Jintropin then any other kind of GH from China....so there are a few decent companies out there in China.

Do you know what your base level was before any of the GH?

----------


## fossilfuel7

> How was your test administered and what were the values you posted before?


I took the 24 hr urine collection GH test from AAL Reference Labs that my doctor administered to me.

Age expected levels were from Low-500 to High2275 and I tested 1230 the first time and 1345 the second test which were low to moderate as stated by the test.

----------


## Hazard

> I agree with Marcus and XL..
> 
> However im not in a position to test my gh so i shall continue to take it until it runs out. When the time comes i will only buy pharma, why risk anything else??
> 
> Ive been on 4ius for a couple of weeks now injecting 7/7 and ive bloated quite badly, my sleep is awesome but the numbness in the arms and hands is alittle bad..


I agree..... here are my thoughts.....

I've had better results while running my HGH..... if it's not HGH then it's still making me grow better. I look better now than I ever have...... Also.... my HGH is paid for (up to 8iu's 5/2) so i'm not spending the cash on it myself. I wont go into details regarding it but just to clarify - I AM NOT SELLING..... DON'T ASK. 

When the time is right.... I will try pharm grade but as of right now I can't do that. Do I think pharm grade will be better.... yea i'm sure. Maybe this generic is underdosed..... idunno what the deal is but i'm seeing results and i'm happy. If in the near future I have to pay for it..... i'll no longer take it until I can afford pharm grade stuff.

I mean..... this all happened so damn fast. Everyone here was going on their merry way with the generics up until a month ago. Now all of a sudden every one of us has fake HGH because theres no label, or because theres a pinwheel on the top..... Come on. While I agree that the generic HGH is not up to par with pharm grade HGH - i'm sure my personal hgh is not just some random powder.

idunno..... just my .02

~Haz~

----------


## BJJ

> What I mean is that most Chinese GH is not of good quality but, some brands are ok.
> 
> I know a guy who had higher levels using Jintropin then any other kind of GH from China....so there are a few decent companies out there in China.
> 
> Do you know what your base level was before any of the GH?


Sure I know, I posted it.
It is up there before the range values.

----------


## Matt

> I agree..... here are my thoughts.....
> 
> I've had better results while running my HGH..... if it's not HGH then it's still making me grow better. I look better now than I ever have...... Also.... my HGH is paid for (up to 8iu's 5/2) so i'm not spending the cash on it myself. I wont go into details regarding it but just to clarify - I AM NOT SELLING..... DON'T ASK. 
> 
> When the time is right.... I will try pharm grade but as of right now I can't do that. Do I think pharm grade will be better.... yea i'm sure. Maybe this generic is underdosed..... idunno what the deal is but i'm seeing results and i'm happy. If in the near future I have to pay for it..... i'll no longer take it until I can afford pharm grade stuff.
> 
> I mean..... this all happened so damn fast. Everyone here was going on their merry way with the generics up until a month ago. Now all of a sudden every one of us has fake HGH because theres no label, or because theres a pinwheel on the top..... Come on. While I agree that the generic HGH is not up to par with pharm grade HGH - i'm sure my personal hgh is not just some random powder.
> 
> idunno..... just my .02
> ...


I completely understand what you are doing and hell if its working then carry on...

Im certainly feeling the correct sides so i will see what happens...

----------


## Big_Bully1

I just got purchased 100iu's of yellow tops and everytime I inject I have a red circle and itching as well. I only inject 3iu each morning subQ. I alternate site from the front of my belly to the love handles. I have read a few other treads and a few people were saying that it could be I am allergic to the BA water. I know alot of people that take the same kind and have great gains so I am thinking its purely allergy related. The vials are 10iu's each and are kept in the fridge before and after mixing. I only mix one vial at a time and it lasts me 3 days. Do you think it would be ok if I used sterile water?

----------


## Xtralarg

> Great to know, I am looking forward to try it as well.
> 
> XL, did you start using...


Yes I started on Monday, 8iu split early AM and early PM. I will run 7/7 until I feel it is working.

----------


## Xtralarg

> I agree with Marcus and XL..
> 
> However im not in a position to test my gh so i shall continue to take it until it runs out. When the time comes i will only buy pharma, why risk anything else??
> 
> Ive been on 4ius for a couple of weeks now injecting 7/7 and ive bloated quite badly, my sleep is awesome but the numbness in the arms and hands is alittle bad..


Where is the bloat mate?

----------


## BJJ

> Yes I started on Monday, 8iu split early AM and early PM. I will run 7/7 until I feel it is working.


Good Luck then.

When do you plan to take also T4?

----------


## Xtralarg

> Good Luck then.
> 
> When do you plan to take also T4?


Thanks!

How are you feeling today, how is the bloat etc?

----------


## BJJ

> Thanks!
> 
> How are you feeling today, how is the bloat etc?


I feel Ok and the bloat in my hands seems to be gone while is back on my ankles, even though less than before.

----------


## Xtralarg

> I feel Ok and the bloat in my hands seems to be gone while is back on my ankles, even though less than before.


Do you still feel like you are loosing BF?

----------


## BJJ

> Do you still feel like you are loosing BF?


Not anymore since a week I would say.

----------


## NotSmall

> I took the 24 hr urine collection GH test from AAL Reference Labs that my doctor administered to me.
> 
> Age expected levels were from Low-500 to High2275 and I tested 1230 the first time and 1345 the second test which were low to moderate as stated by the test.


Thanks bud, just to clarify though - what I am asking is - what are those numbers? 500-2275 what?

I am highly surprised that GH levels can be tested in urine considering how hard it is to test for in blood.

----------


## fossilfuel7

> Thanks bud, just to clarify though - what I am asking is - what are those numbers? 500-2275 what?
> 
> I am highly surprised that GH levels can be tested in urine considering how hard it is to test for in blood.



Ha, I was surprised too when he walked back in witht the kit and said this is what I prefer to use to be accurate for actual GH.

On the test it just says "Urinary HGH(asr)" whatever that means and 
" 500-2275 pg24hr(expected range is age and gender specific) "

That's all I got man lol.

----------


## Matt

> Where is the bloat mate?


Fingers, wrists and face seem to be the worst but this morning my fingers and wrists felt alittle painful. Not to bad but enough to make me feel uncomfortable...

Supposing my gh is real when should i expect these sides to subside??

----------


## Xtralarg

> Fingers, wrists and face seem to be the worst but this morning my fingers and wrists felt alittle painful. Not to bad but enough to make me feel uncomfortable...
> 
> Supposing my gh is real when should i expect these sides to subside??


They are usually gone within about a month or so, maybe a little longer if you increase the dose within that time though.

----------


## SuperBird

> ok well if you would have read my complete post you would have read where i said i was only "3 weeks in at 3iu" if i could start higher i would, and im going 7 days a week


it was a simple harmless statement. maybe i didnt feel like looking back 15 f#cking pages to find your goal sheet. but then again, it doesnt matter to me. 

 :Nutkick:

----------


## SuperBird

> I agree..... here are my thoughts.....
> 
> I've had better results while running my HGH..... if it's not HGH then it's still making me grow better. I look better now than I ever have...... Also.... my HGH is paid for (up to 8iu's 5/2) so i'm not spending the cash on it myself. I wont go into details regarding it but just to clarify - I AM NOT SELLING..... DON'T ASK. 
> 
> When the time is right.... I will try pharm grade but as of right now I can't do that. Do I think pharm grade will be better.... yea i'm sure. Maybe this generic is underdosed..... idunno what the deal is but i'm seeing results and i'm happy. If in the near future I have to pay for it..... i'll no longer take it until I can afford pharm grade stuff.
> 
> I mean..... this all happened so damn fast. Everyone here was going on their merry way with the generics up until a month ago. Now all of a sudden every one of us has fake HGH because theres no label, or because theres a pinwheel on the top..... Come on. While I agree that the generic HGH is not up to par with pharm grade HGH - i'm sure my personal hgh is not just some random powder.
> 
> idunno..... just my .02
> ...



Right on. i guess my HGH pinwheel tops was a diuretic, for exactly the time i was injecting it i had to pee every half hour of the night. the day after i quit the "HGH" my half hourly peeing has stopped. but atleast i peed some body fat off and didnt get a forehead tumor. 

but a good point with this HGH stuff, is that test and fina and lotsa protein gets shit done. and if someone doesnt have serious money to just throw away on pharm HGH its best to just stick with the good juice. gamble with juice you may lose 43 bucks, gamble with HGH and thats a corvette payment. i just pissed away 400 bucks, ive never done that on test. and i got away with only losing 400 bucks because XtraLarg alerted me early on. 

i just wish test gave those youthfull benefits, instead it always give me thick facial skin.

----------


## Big_Bully1

Hey Xtra can you help?

I just got purchased 100iu's of yellow tops and everytime I inject I have a red circle and itching as well. I only inject 3iu each morning subQ. I alternate site from the front of my belly to the love handles. I have read a few other treads and a few people were saying that it could be I am allergic to the BA water. I know alot of people that take the same kind and have great gains so I am thinking its purely allergy related. The vials are 10iu's each and are kept in the fridge before and after mixing. I only mix one vial at a time and it lasts me 3 days. Do you think it would be ok if I used sterile water?

----------


## Xtralarg

> Hey Xtra can you help?
> 
> I just got purchased 100iu's of yellow tops and everytime I inject I have a red circle and itching as well. I only inject 3iu each morning subQ. I alternate site from the front of my belly to the love handles. I have read a few other treads and a few people were saying that it could be I am allergic to the BA water. I know alot of people that take the same kind and have great gains so I am thinking its purely allergy related. The vials are 10iu's each and are kept in the fridge before and after mixing. I only mix one vial at a time and it lasts me 3 days. Do you think it would be ok if I used sterile water?


I have done some research on this for you and my findings are 'adverse reactions to intravenous, intramuscular or subcutaneous injection of 0.9% benzyl alcohol are not known to occur in man'

I can only assume that:

1. You are injecting 192aa and this is causing the reaction.
2. You are injecting an unknown substance that is causing this adverse reaction

If you know other people who have had great gains from the same substance *and they know what they are talking about* then all I can assume is that you have 192aa rHGH and this *IS* known to cause red welts and sore injection sites in some people. I have used 192aa myself and experienced a very similar reaction.

Either way I would advise you to stop injecting it as it is obviously not suiting you.

I hope this helps you.

----------


## P3rf3ctionist

> Will your friend produce a detailed report or just give you the thumbs up/down?


Hey XT, sorry about the late response I work during the week and only really get the chance to get on here at the end of the week.

I'm still in process of asking him what tests he could perform, he did mention, though slightly more complicated he could tell us what is exactly in the vial but the analysis of the data from the test may take a few weeks as it's not really simple to analyze such information but initially will tell me if it is HGH in the vial and how much.

----------


## P3rf3ctionist

** Update **

In week 8 of HGH, and starting to see the real effects of it, getting much leaner on my arms and abdominal area, still at 4iu's. Will be starting a test/tren cycle this monday so pondering if to increase dosage to 6iu's for the duration of the cycle. Any advice?

----------


## Big_Bully1

Thx for the help, but what do you think about trying sterile water instead .... Also I was wondering if I should use Igf-1 instead? trying to get lean and drop some weight

----------


## SuperBird

> ** Update **
> 
> In week 8 of HGH, and starting to see the real effects of it, getting much leaner on my arms and abdominal area, still at 4iu's. Will be starting a test/tren cycle this monday so pondering if to increase dosage to 6iu's for the duration of the cycle. Any advice?


so 4ius is adequate for you? not saying that it wouldnt be, but theres been alot of back and forth about how many iu's a day are needed for substantial changes. are you doing 4iu once or twice daily? fina really rolls fat off especially running with test, so why do you feel you need to up the dosage of HGH if its doing a good job cutting you down already? without upping the dosage, fina on its own with the test is going to increase the cutting effect. all of your cutting and building effects are getting ready to be raised substantially with the addition of tren /test so im just wondering what makes you interested to up your iu's. at 8 weeks on 4iu are you getting what you expected all the way around?

----------


## Spartans09

Here is an interesting read on the new baseball testing protocol for HGH being implemented in the minor leagues.

NEW YORK -- A scientist who has worked to develop a urine test for human growth hormone says the blood test baseball plans to use for minor leaguers can only detect the substance for 6 to 12 hours.

Don Catlin said Friday that the test, announced a day earlier by baseball commissioner Bud Selig, is of limited use. In February, a British rugby league player became the first athlete suspended following a positive HGH test.

"The fact that it's been around for a few thousand tests and only one positive suggests that either there's much less growth hormone being used than we thought, which is doubtful, or the period of detectability is really pretty short -- a few hours. It's probably the latter," said Catlin, adding detection probably would work only with "middle-of-the-night testing."


“ 
It wouldn't take much of an IQ for a player to circumvent this proposed HGH testing procedure. A baseball player could possibly inject HGH as soon as leaving a ballpark and test negative from a blood sample collected postgame the following day. HGH injections are routinely done at night before bed, so a morning blood sample would be the target. 

” 
-- Victor Conte on MLB's HGH blood testing in minor leagues

Players with minor league contracts will be given the blood test, which Selig called "a significant step."

Victor Conte, whose Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative triggered a federal investigation of steroids use and distribution among athletes, also criticized the blood test. He said it would detect little and called it "flawed" because baseball will collect only postgame blood samples.

"It wouldn't take much of an IQ for a player to circumvent this proposed HGH testing procedure," he wrote in an e-mail to The Associated Press. "A baseball player could possibly inject HGH as soon as leaving a ballpark and test negative from a blood sample collected postgame the following day. HGH injections are routinely done at night before bed, so a morning blood sample would be the target. The available test for HGH requires a random blood collection protocol to be considered anything more than a PR move by MLB."

Rob Manfred, baseball's executive vice president of labor relations, said baseball was taking whatever steps it could.

"We are using the best available technology for the detection of HGH," he said.

Gary Wadler, who leads the World Anti-Doping Agency committee that determines the banned-substances list, said any test is better than none. Plus, he said HGH likely will be detected by it.

"It's not the kind of drug you take once and now you get tested weeks later, it's gone," he said. "Sure, it will be gone. But that's not how you use it. You use it, you basically take it every day. So the detection window becomes less important in something you take on a regular basis."

And he argues testing will make athletes think harder about using.

"It does work. It is a deterrent," he said. "Even though it's not anywhere near where we are with steroid testing, it's sufficiently developed and validated to say it should be incorporated into anti-drug testing."

Because no independent data on the HGH test has been published, no steps have been taken toward implementing it for unionized players on 40-man major league rosters. The current drug plan and labor contract run until December 2011, but the Major League Baseball Players Association has said it would agree to a validated urine test for HGH.

"I think they're starting it in the minor leagues to make sure there are no flaws," said San Diego pitcher Heath Bell, the Padres player representative. "If it was a urine test, I think we'd be all for it. And if it's a blood test, you can't tell a guy who's going to pitch nine innings or play nine innings, 'Here, I need a little vial of blood first,' because some guys get a little queasy."

Minnesota Twins outfielder Michael Cuddyer said minor leaguers would be guinea pigs for the test.

"That's how it's always been," he said. "But at the same time, if it helps us get to a point where you test, I'm all for it."

Tampa Bay Rays manager Joe Maddon predicted use of the test eventually will expand to the big leagues.

"I think it is a wise decision to start there," he said. "I believe that eventually it will progress to this level -- after we make sure we work out all the kinks. We have to find out what works, what doesn't."

Catlin was critical of WADA for not allowing independent analysis of the HGH test.

"I can't go to the literature and read a scientific article that gives me the data," he said. "WADA will have that, but they don't display it. So I think the only way we are ever going to see if it an athlete chooses to contest a positive test result, and then they'll have to show it to pursue or to prevail in court."

The current isoform test scans blood for synthetic HGH. Wadler said there soon may be a marker test that could be used in conjunction with the first one, similar to how testosterone /epitestosterone (T/E) ratio tests are used in conjunction with carbon isotope tests to detect the difference between natural and artificial testosterone.

Catlin abandoned his attempt to develop a test based on mass spectrometry and amino acids because not enough HGH was present in urine. He needs a commitment of $1 million to $2 million to attempt to develop a urine test based on aptamers, molecules that act similar to antibodies. His abandoned test received $900,000 in funding.

He said it would take about three years to create the new test, and he hasn't yet started discussions with MLB and the NFL on whether they would like to fund the study.

Validity of any test is a chief concern.

"There can be a lot of backlash because of a false test that gets out and all of a sudden a player is labeled and he never did anything," Pirates manager John Russell said. "That's tough to get over. So I think the integrity of how they do it is going to be the main thing. If they can do it where it's proper and it's done the right way, I'm sure it will get in."

----------


## Xtralarg

> Thx for the help, but what do you think about trying sterile water instead .... Also I was wondering if I should use Igf-1 instead? trying to get lean and drop some weight


You could try sterile water to see if it helps.

If you want to lean up why dont you hit the clen /T3 combo?

----------


## Big_Bully1

Go Phils!

----------


## Big_Bully1

> You could try sterile water to see if it helps.
> 
> If you want to lean up why dont you hit the clen/T3 combo?



I wanted to stay in gh until like march then hit 2 momnths of clen /t3 combo. I have always wanted to do it and now i have funds so I gues its time HAHA. I'm just not a huge fan of clen, I get the jitters and can't sleep. I already have too much energy as it is, ya dig.

----------


## Xtralarg

> I wanted to stay in gh until like march then hit 2 momnths of clen/t3 combo. I have always wanted to do it and now i have funds so I gues its time HAHA. I'm just not a huge fan of clen, I get the jitters and can't sleep. I already have too much energy as it is, ya dig.


Sure do.

Try the sterile water but I reckon youre going to end up getting some different gh, after all who knows what is in those vials with yellow tops??

----------


## Big_Bully1

> Sure do.
> 
> Try the sterile water but I reckon youre going to end up getting some different gh, after all who knows what is in those vials with yellow tops??


Yea I'm starting to lean on the new gh idea as well.... I'll let you know how it goes with the sterile water, thanks for everything :7up:

----------


## Xtralarg

> Yea I'm starting to lean on the new gh idea as well.... I'll let you know how it goes with the sterile water, thanks for everything


No worries

----------


## BJJ

Hey XL, I just came accross the news from Zhao that he sent me Hypertropin and not Jintropin because, since I told him I was going to test some vials from the huge order I made, he wanted to give me as a new client the best product possible.

So, the reason is that Hypertropin has 4 mg of rHGH 191aa per vial while Jintropin 3.3 mg per vial.

Any direct experience on that?

----------


## Xtralarg

> Hey XL, I just came accross the news from Zhao that he sent me Hypertropin and not Jintropin because, since I told him I was going to test some vials from the huge order I made, he wanted to give me as a new client the best product possible.
> 
> So, the reason is that Hypertropin has 4 mg of rHGH 191aa per vial while Jintropin 3.3 mg per vial.
> 
> Any direct experience on that?


No direct experience but I am aware that Gensci make both Hyper and Jin and they are both supposed to be pharma grade. Are they saying that the jin is under dosed or that the hyper is overdosed because both are 10iu vials are they not?

How much did you order?

----------


## BJJ

> No direct experience but I am aware that Gensci make both Hyper and Jin and they are both supposed to be pharma grade. Are they saying that the jin is under dosed or that the hyper is overdosed because both are 10iu vials are they not?
> 
> How much did you order?


They said Hyper is overdosed and yes they vials are 10 iu.

I ordered 3000 iu.

----------


## Xtralarg

> They said Hyper is overdosed and yes they vials are 10 iu.
> 
> I ordered 3000 iu.


This makes me ask one very serious question.

Why would a pharma grade company produce over dosed vials or rHGH? Lets not forget that it is produced for people who have medical problems and therefore making a product that is overdosed would not be something that a reputable pharmaceutical company would do, certainly not one in the West anyway.

I dont like what I am hearing, it sounds dodgy.

----------


## BJJ

You and also marcus wrote that you had good results with Jintropin.
So, why did you stop using it?

----------


## BJJ

> This makes me ask one very serious question.
> 
> Why would a pharma grade company produce over dosed vials or rHGH? Lets not forget that it is produced for people who have medical problems and therefore making a product that is overdosed would not be something that a reputable pharmaceutical company would do, certainly not one in the West anyway.
> 
> I dont like what I am hearing, it sounds dodgy.


I turned your question to him.
This was his reply:

_Dear ...,

In 2007 Jintropin was baned for export due to pressure from US pharma giants
on the govt. See this article
http://www.projo.com/news/content/pr...106ac79b7.html

After that we created an alternative brand (Hypertropin) which we were able
to deliver while Jintropin was on the ban lists in pretty much every
country. As overseas sales were mostly for bodybuilding and weight loss
purposes, overdosing hypertropin made sense to give people more "bang for
the buck" and get good reviews going_

----------


## Xtralarg

> You and also marcus wrote that you had good results with Jintropin.
> So, why did you stop using it?


I had to stop using it because i could no longer get hold of it, I last used Jin in about 2006. It then became hard to find due to the olympic crack down on chinese gh.

----------


## Xtralarg

> I turned your question to him.
> This was his reply:
> 
> _Dear ...,
> 
> In 2007 Jintropin was baned for export due to pressure from US pharma giants
> on the govt. See this article
> http://www.projo.com/news/content/pr...106ac79b7.html
> 
> ...


I dont think their reply makes sense. I have to ask why they would overdose something rather than increasing its stated dose. i.e. 12iu vials instead of 10. The fact that they dont benefit from overdosing as you would never know unless they told you or you got it tested (hard to do as we know!) makes me suspicious. yes you will get more bang for your buck but im positive that they would let you know by telling you, e.g. 12iu for the price of 10iu. Its like any other product you can think of, if you are getting 33% more orange juice for the same price the Tropicana will make sure you know by covering half the damn carton advertising the fact.

Its not sitting right with me what Gensci are telling you, and Im gutted cos i want to order some ff them as well as i have already told you.

Thats me---->  : 1106:  Sorry

----------


## BJJ

> I dont think their reply makes sense. I have to ask why they would overdose something rather than increasing its stated dose. i.e. 12iu vials instead of 10. The fact that they dont benefit from overdosing as you would never know unless they told you or you got it tested (hard to do as we know!) makes me suspicious. yes you will get more bang for your buck but im positive that they would let you know by telling you, e.g. 12iu for the price of 10iu. Its like any other product you can think of, if you are getting 33% more orange juice for the same price the Tropicana will make sure you know by covering half the damn carton advertising the fact.
> 
> Its not sitting right with me what Gensci are telling you, and Im gutted cos i want to order some ff them as well as i have already told you.
> 
> Thats me---->  Sorry


Do not be sorry, your thoughts have a sense.

In any case, till we will find a lab to test the vials, I can only keep getting blood works to compare with the preceding.

----------


## marcus300

> Hey XL, I just came accross the news from Zhao that he sent me Hypertropin and not Jintropin because, since I told him I was going to test some vials from the huge order I made, he wanted to give me as a new client the best product possible.
> 
> So, the reason is that Hypertropin has 4 mg of rHGH 191aa per vial while Jintropin 3.3 mg per vial.
> 
> Any direct experience on that?





> They said Hyper is overdosed and yes they vials are 10 iu.
> 
> I ordered 3000 iu.





> I turned your question to him.
> This was his reply:
> 
> _Dear ...,
> 
> In 2007 Jintropin was baned for export due to pressure from US pharma giants
> on the govt. See this article
> http://www.projo.com/news/content/pr...106ac79b7.html
> 
> ...





> Do not be sorry, your thoughts have a sense.
> 
> In any case, till we will find a lab to test the vials, I can only keep getting blood works to compare with the preceding.


Why would a legitimate Pharmaceutical Company admit they are over dosing Hyper 10ius should be 10ius, also when you told them you was going to get your jin's tested they didn't wont to send them. I am sure your going to get legit GH now but would anyone trust a company what has done this, everything to do with China is suspect I'm convinced.

----------


## BJJ

> Why would a legitimate Pharmaceutical Company admit they are over dosing Hyper 10ius should be 10ius, also when you told them you was going to get your jin's tested they didn't wont to send them. I am sure your going to get legit GH now but would anyone trust a company what has done this, *everything to do with China is suspect I'm convinced.*


Was not that the same company where you got your Jintropin from?

----------


## turk1968

i might be wrong but dont china make most of the raw powders that are exported and used by most ug labs to make most of the ug aas ?

----------


## marcus300

> Was not that the same company where you got your Jintropin from?


Yes 5 yrs ago.

No legitimate Pharmaceutical Company would send you overdosed gh, if you asked for 10ius per vial thats what you should get 10ius, no less no more. Do you think Lilly or Serono would do that? not a chance, i am very dissapointed to hear this because I thought they were 100% but from what you told me they aren't :What?:

----------


## BJJ

> Yes 5 yrs ago.
> 
> No legitimate Pharmaceutical Company would send you overdosed gh, if you asked for 10ius per vial thats what you should get 10ius, no less no more. Do you think Lilly or Serono would do that? not a chance, i am very dissapointed to hear this because I thought they were 100% but from what you told me they aren't


Then we all have a situation here.

It is going worse...

----------


## Xtralarg

> Yes 5 yrs ago.
> 
> No legitimate Pharmaceutical Company would send you overdosed gh, if you asked for 10ius per vial thats what you should get 10ius, no less no more. Do you think Lilly or Serono would do that? not a chance, i am very dissapointed to hear this because I thought they were 100% but from what you told me they aren't





> Then we all have a situation here.
> 
> It is going worse...


I agree with both of you.....

----------


## Xtralarg

007 how is your bloat?

----------


## Xtralarg

> i might be wrong but dont china make most of the raw powders that are exported and used by most ug labs to make most of the ug aas ?


And your point is?

----------


## Matt

> 007 how is your bloat?


Not good, i cant get my watch on, my wrists now hurt and my fingers are numb and look twice as thick...

Besides all that im not to bothered because im sleeping much better than i can remember and my appetite is very good..

----------


## Xtralarg

> Not good, i cant get my watch on, my wrists now hurt and my fingers are numb and look twice as thick...
> 
> Besides all that im not to bothered because im sleeping much better than i can remember and my appetite is very good..


Those sides sound extreme, do you always react that way to gh mate?

----------


## Matt

> Those sides sound extreme, do you always react that way to gh mate?


This is my first ever run at it mate so its all new..

Its all good though and im just hoping that this is as bad as it gets...

----------


## Xtralarg

> This is my first ever run at it mate so its all new..
> 
> Its all good though and im just hoping that this is as bad as it gets...


I have to be honest with you here and tell you that I think that you have an anti diuretic hormone and I will explain why....

Over the years I have had gh many times, in the past i have used pharm grade and my body was transformed, I was tight and muscular and felt on top of the world. Earlier on in the year I started some from China and the results were nothing like I had experienced before, in fact they were exactly how you described yours and this is not how I react to proper gh. I went fvckin HUGE, im talking like 30lbs heavier, noting fitted nme cloths wise, like you I couldnt get my watch on and it just didnt feel right. I went to the docs and he took my BP....it was 160/100 with a pulse of 100!!!! I came off immediately and the BP went down within a week or so, not to what it was proir to starting my so called GH but never the less it is on its way down. 

I have now started some different better quality gh and I am ot experiencng anu signs of this ridiculas bloat that is dangerous and very unhealthy.

*What I am saying here is that I know how I react to gh and it is not like I did to the stuff I was taking, and I know cos ive had pharma grade.* 

If that bloat stays with you for as long as you take the gh then there is something very very wrong, they also sound far to extreme IMO.

----------


## Matt

> I have to be honest with you here and tell you that I think that you have an anti diuretic hormone and I will explain why....
> 
> Over the years I have had gh many times, in the past i have used pharm grade and my body was transformed, I was tight and muscular and felt on top of the world. Earlier on in the year I started some from China and the results were nothing like I had experienced before, in fact they were exactly how you described yours and this is not how I react to proper gh. I went fvckin HUGE, im talking like 30lbs heavier, noting fitted nme cloths wise, like you I couldnt get my watch on and it just didnt feel right. I went to the docs and he took my BP....it was 160/100 with a pulse of 100!!!! I came off immediately and the BP went down within a week or so, not to what it was proir to starting my so called GH but never the less it is on its way down. 
> 
> I have now started some different better quality gh and I am ot experiencng anu signs of this ridiculas bloat that is dangerous and very unhealthy.
> 
> *What I am saying here is that I know how I react to gh and it is not like I did to the stuff I was taking, and I know cos ive had pharma grade.* 
> 
> If that bloat stays with you for as long as you take the gh then there is something very very wrong, they also sound far to extreme IMO.


This was one of the reasons i asked you yesterday about how long these sides last for because there has to be a point where i decide to stop using this gh..

Ive been on this gh for just over a month now so i have to decide when the right time is to stop, unless these sides go...

----------


## Xtralarg

> This was one of the reasons i asked you yesterday about how long these sides last for because there has to be a point where i decide to stop using this gh..
> 
> Ive been on this gh for just over a month now so i have to decide when the right time is to stop, unless these sides go...


If I were you I would stop now, I know that you wont want to stop and that you probably dont want to believe what I write but its all true.

IMO the sides you are experiencing are way too severe, I dont know anyone who has used pharma grade that has experienced such severe sides. 

Try to get a vial tested if you can.

Have you BP checked, I bet its through the roof.

----------


## Sc0rch

When your BP was 160/100 did you make sure the doctor used the large cuff?

My dermatologist took my BP with the standard size cuff and it was around 170/110. After using the large cuff it went down to 140/80. 

Make sure they use the correct size cuff.

----------


## Xtralarg

> When your BP was 160/100 did you make sure the doctor used the large cuff?
> 
> My dermatologist took my BP with the standard size cuff and it was around 170/110. After using the large cuff it went down to 140/80. 
> 
> Make sure they use the correct size cuff.


Only the large cuff will fit around my arm  :Wink/Grin: 

I had it taken on about 8 different occasions at the doctors, at home and at the hospital after the first one was so high.

----------


## Sc0rch

Oh ok. A lot of people aren't aware of that so just checking.

I used to average 130-145/70-90 but GH has made my BP come down a little. Monitor it at home all the time.

----------


## Matt

> If I were you I would stop now, I know that you wont want to stop and that you probably dont want to believe what I write but its all true.
> 
> IMO the sides you are experiencing are way too severe, I dont know anyone who has used pharma grade that has experienced such severe sides. 
> 
> Try to get a vial tested if you can.
> 
> Have you BP checked, I bet its through the roof.


You are correct im not going to stop, not until ive given it enough time to be sure. Remember even if i took pharma gh it is still possible to have the same sides, sides are more dependent on the idividual..

Im not sure that what i have is an anti diuretic, im sure an anti diuretic is used to control the balance of water in ones body and reduce the amount of time spent urinating, im pissing for England at the moment...

If i had the money i would have it tested tomorrow and do exactly what you say mate, and im sure the people making this stuff know that. I wouldnt be surprised if they think no one will ever test it, however i will save one vial and have it tested in a few months...

----------


## Xtralarg

If you cant get it tested then why dont you but some pharm grade?

If you come off yours and then hit the pharm grade you will notice a huge difference IMO.

----------


## Matt

> If you cant get it tested then why dont you but some pharm grade?
> 
> If you come off yours and then hit the pharm grade you will notice a huge difference IMO.


This is it, if i could afford the pharma gh then i could afford to test my gh..

I will in future always buy pharma...

----------


## Xtralarg

> This is it, if i could afford the pharma gh then i could afford to test my gh..
> 
> I will in future always buy pharma...


Well i wish you all the best with your gh mate.

Have you found a lab that will test it?

----------


## Xtralarg

I have been speaking with Jin and they told me this 

You can chose between Jintropin and Hypertropin. Both come at the same price per kit. Jintropin is 33mg per (100IU kit) while Hypertropin is 40mg per (100IU kit  technically 120IU even though it's marked 100IU)

Thoughts anyone?

----------


## marcus300

> You are correct im not going to stop, not until ive given it enough time to be sure. Remember even if i took pharma gh it is still possible to have the same sides, sides are more dependent on the idividual..
> 
> Im not sure that what i have is an anti diuretic, im sure an anti diuretic is used to control the balance of water in ones body and reduce the amount of time spent urinating, im pissing for England at the moment...
> 
> If i had the money i would have it tested tomorrow and do exactly what you say mate, and im sure the people making this stuff know that. I wouldnt be surprised if they think no one will ever test it, however i will save one vial and have it tested in a few months...


You need to buy some Pharm grade, then you will know exactly how you should be reacting. Ive had similar sides when using Chinese shit tops and its nothing like Pharm grade.

----------


## turk1968

> And your point is?


My point is : i am 48 and competed in my twenties using pharma grade hgh and aas bought out of a chemist overseas. 
The difference between gear then and now, both aas and hgh i think is huge. 1000mg of sustanon then ( 1 amp per box with leaflet shrink wrapped 10 boxes together) and 1000mg of ug sust now doesnt compare in my mind. 
Maybe its the ug lab underdosing the product or maybe its the quality of the raw powder being used or maybe its both!. 
Ive used hgh now for about 4 - 5 years (ansomone/blues/greens up to 70ius per week ) and i seem to need less sleep when taking it, feel a bit more youthful and energetic but as far as changes in body composition its nothing compared to when i was in my late twenties using pharma grade. I know im older now but even so !!!

So my point is from my experiences this time round " I would question anything that China produces and exports to us !!!! "

----------


## BJJ

> My point is : i am 48 and competed in my twenties using pharma grade hgh and aas bought out of a chemist overseas. 
> The difference between gear then and now, both aas and hgh i think is huge. 1000mg of sustanon then ( 1 amp per box with leaflet shrink wrapped 10 boxes together) and 1000mg of ug sust now doesnt compare in my mind. 
> Maybe its the ug lab underdosing the product or maybe its the quality of the raw powder being used or maybe its both!. 
> Ive used hgh now for about 4 - 5 years (ansomone/blues/greens up to 70ius per week ) and i seem to need less sleep when taking it, feel a bit more youthful and energetic but as far as changes in body composition its nothing compared to when i was in my late twenties using pharma grade. I know im older now but even so !!!
> 
> So my point is from my experiences this time round " I would question anything that China produces and exports to us !!!! "


I do understand what you mean but I also believe it is not wise to compare your organism when you were 20 and using pharma grade.

You should use pharma grade now and compare...

----------


## turk1968

It was alot easier then , i just flew out on holiday placed an order at the chemist ,went back paid the bill and flew home with it in my hand luggage. 

Yes i know im an old fart but the gear seemed alot stronger then. Pharma is the way to go for me i think as far as hgh so i can see for myself but i still have doubts about alot of the aas that is around as far as quality. 

Maybe its time we tested some of the well known ug labs for quality aswell?

----------


## Big_Bully1

> I have done some research on this for you and my findings are 'adverse reactions to intravenous, intramuscular or subcutaneous injection of 0.9% benzyl alcohol are not known to occur in man'
> 
> I can only assume that:
> 
> 1. You are injecting 192aa and this is causing the reaction.
> 2. You are injecting an unknown substance that is causing this adverse reaction
> 
> If you know other people who have had great gains from the same substance *and they know what they are talking about* then all I can assume is that you have 192aa rHGH and this *IS* known to cause red welts and sore injection sites in some people. I have used 192aa myself and experienced a very similar reaction.
> 
> ...



Hey xtra I have used the saline solution (sterile) and It feels alot better, still have alittle bump but the redness didn't appear. I have always felt great while on it without any horrible sides, except for the itching and red spot.

As far as the clen /t3 combo, do you have any reccomendations on where to get it and also what do you think of IGF-1? ...

thanks for your help cuzzo

----------


## BJJ

> Hey xtra I have used the saline solution (sterile) and It feels alot better, still have alittle bump but the redness didn't appear. I have always felt great while on it without any horrible sides, except for the itching and red spot.
> 
> As far as the clen /t3 combo, do you have any reccomendations on where to get it and also what do you think of IGF-1? ...
> 
> thanks for your help *cuzzo*


cuzzo?

are you italian?

----------


## Xtralarg

> Hey xtra I have used the saline solution (sterile) and It feels alot better, still have alittle bump but the redness didn't appear. I have always felt great while on it without any horrible sides, except for the itching and red spot.
> 
> As far as the clen /t3 combo, do you have any reccomendations on where to get it and also what do you think of IGF-1? ...
> 
> thanks for your help cuzzo


Well thats good, at least it is a little better.

You can get your clen and T3 from Ar-r . <----Click on link

I dont use IGF-1.

----------


## Big_Bully1

> Well thats good, at least it is a little better.
> 
> You can get your clen and T3 from Ar-r . <----Click on link
> 
> I dont use IGF-1.


Thx cuz ... Do you recommend me keep injecting the gh even with the little bump or just cut ties with it all together? 

I feel ok so I guess its not really hurting me but then again is it really benefiting me in any way either. Its like a double edged sword HA WTF

----------


## Xtralarg

> Thx cuz ... Do you recommend me keep injecting the gh even with the little bump or just cut ties with it all together? 
> 
> I feel ok so I guess its not really hurting me but then again is it really benefiting me in any way either. Its like a double edged sword HA WTF


Are you taking 192aa gh?

----------


## Spartans09

Here are my blood test results that just came in. 

IGF-1 Insulin -Like Growth Factor 1, 661 flagged as high, reference range 109-284

I have been taking generic chineese for 5 weeks as my first run with gh. Started at 1.5 IU and up to 2.25 IU in the am Sub-Q. I took 4 IU about 45 minutes before my blood was pulled.

Thoughts?

----------


## BJJ

> Here are my blood test results that just came in. 
> 
> IGF-1 Insulin -Like Growth Factor 1, 661 flagged as high, reference range 109-284
> 
> I have been taking generic chineese for 5 weeks as my first run with gh. Started at 1.5 IU and up to 2.25 IU in the am Sub-Q. I took 4 IU about 45 minutes before my blood was pulled.
> 
> Thoughts?


That is not high lol, but out of range. That lab flag is weird...

Anyway, it is an increase over 100% on the highest value range.

Not bad at all, at least if compared to my results.

What are your stats?
What is the measuring unit of the IGF-1 range?

----------


## Spartans09

39 years old
5'11'' 206 14%BF

The measuring units are ng/ml.

----------


## BJJ

Could you check if the method was "Immunometric"?

I see no relation between our values actually.

How could we have different ranges if the method is the same? I hope it is not otherwise I will be confused indeed.

My ranges are:
26-40 yo: 119-494 ng/ml *520*

Yours:
?-? yo: 109-284 ng/ml *661*

----------


## Spartans09

BJJ- I called the lab and they said the method is "immunochemiluminometric" (that is a mouthfull). I assume that is the same as your method?
She also said that even though we may have the same age range and units of measure, the referance range is directly tied to your specific age. This may explain the difference.

----------


## BJJ

> BJJ- I called the lab and they said the method is "immunochemiluminometric" (that is a mouthfull). I assume that is the same as your method?
> She also said that even though we may have the same age range and units of measure, the referance range is directly tied to your specific age. This may explain the difference.


Thanks for caring about this.

So, if I understood correctly, the differences reside on the fact I am 36 and you 39?

----------


## Spartans09

Yes. That is how they explained it to me.

----------


## Big_Bully1

> Are you taking 192aa gh?


I'm gonna tell you the truth I have no idea if it is 192aa or not. My boy told me it was generic yellow top. Everybody else who uses it that I know have seen results, I am only in my 3 week so I really wont see anything for awhile, but I feel good.

----------


## Big_Bully1

> You need to buy some Pharm grade, then you will know exactly how you should be reacting. Ive had similar sides when using Chinese shit tops and its nothing like Pharm grade.



I have the chineese shit tops now and I was wondering how I could get my ands on some pharm grade? I am 27 y/o ... 5'11... 240lbs ....

----------


## Xtralarg

> I'm gonna tell you the truth I have no idea if it is 192aa or not. My boy told me it was generic yellow top. Everybody else who uses it that I know have seen results, I am only in my 3 week so I really wont see anything for awhile, but I feel good.


It's just with you having this reaction at the injection site and others having good results, makes me think it could be 192aa.

----------


## Big_Bully1

> It's just with you having this reaction at the injection site and others having good results, makes me think it could be 192aa.


Yea I hear ya ... Is 192aa bad? ... sorry I don't kno much info about it ... I thought it was all the same HA

----------


## Xtralarg

> Yea I hear ya ... Is 192aa bad? ... sorry I don't kno much info about it ... I thought it was all the same HA


I will let you do some digging and make your own mind up.

----------


## BignBig

After some extensive research, I decided to do my blast this way
5IU EOD - 1st week. 
10IU EOD - 2nd week. 
20IU EOD - 3rd week. 
30-35IU EOD - 4th week. 
Stop for a month. Suggested by 123cctv in another forum

Ive been in 8iu for 3 months now, see good results so far.
Because Im already in 8iu my version of the blast is as follow:
10IU EOD  1st week
15IU EOD  2nd week
25IU EOD  3rd week
35IU EOD  4th week
Ill keep you guys updated

----------


## Xtralarg

> After some extensive research, I decided to do my blast this way
> 5IU EOD - 1st week. 
> 10IU EOD - 2nd week. 
> 20IU EOD - 3rd week. 
> 30-35IU EOD - 4th week. 
> Stop for a month. Suggested by 123cctv in another forum
> 
> Ive been in 8iu for 3 months now, see good results so far.
> Because Im already in 8iu my version of the blast is as follow:
> ...


What results have you seen so far?

What sides did you have and how long for?

Do you still have any sides?

What sort of gh are you using?

----------


## BJJ

Tried Somatrope for the first time but saw no much of a difference compared to Hyge.tropin, except for a strong burning feeling on the injection spot.

Awaiting wife's blood work results on that drug.

Also, all of my bloating is gone by now.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Tried Somatrope for the first time but saw no much of a difference compared to Hyge.tropin, except for a strong burning feeling on the injection spot.
> 
> Awaiting wife's blood work results on that drug.
> 
> Also, all of my bloating is gone by now.


How many days did you take the Somatrope for and at what dose?

What do you conclude from all of your sides going away?

----------


## BJJ

> How many days did you take the Somatrope for and at what dose?
> 
> What do you conclude from all of your sides going away?


Three days @ 10 iu ed.

I conclude it is a good sign therefore, even thoug probably underdosed, Hyge.tropin among the whole Chinese offer is a working drug.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Three days @ 10 iu ed.
> 
> I conclude it is a good sign therefore, even thoug probably underdosed, Hyge.tropin among the whole Chinese offer is a working drug.


I have reached a similar conclusion, I estimate that hyge is approx 30-40% of stated dose, what ammount do you think?

----------


## BJJ

> I have reached a similar conclusion, I estimate that hyge is approx 30-40% of stated dose, what ammount do you think?


I do not feel to be able to write down a percentage since my experience is too little.

But I do take into account your numbers for future references.

----------


## Xtralarg

> I do not feel to be able to write down a percentage since my experience is too little.
> 
> But I do take into account your numbers for future references.


Ok but you do think it is underdosed, so if you had to take a guess what would you say? Just your rough estimation...

----------


## BJJ

> Ok but you do think it is underdosed, so if you had to take a guess what would you say? Just your rough estimation...


To make a rough estimation I need to take into account the best rHGH used so far and compare it to Hyge.tropin.

When I started my test susp cycle I wanted to stack somatropin as soon as possible and so by the middle of the cycle I ordered EuroHormones rHGH from my source. The problem is the vials took 2 months to arrive and they were not refrigerated so I believe the effectiveness of the powder was compromised by the time I got them.

In spite of this, when I started to inject 2.5 iu daily I felt the day after so many befenits I could not believe it and I needed to report it on my thread for future references. In just a week I was getting leaner and without the use of T4, which I started to use more than a month later with another brand.

So, with that being said necessary to make you understand why I reached the following conclusion, if I would cut 30-40% (your estimate) from the 8 iu of Hyge injected daily, I could reach 5.6-4.8 iu effectiveness.
Well, that amount never made feel any better not even equal to what I felt with EuroHormones.

My conclusion is, they are underdosed even a bit more than that.

----------


## Xtralarg

> To make a rough estimation I need to take into account the best rHGH used so far and compare it to Hyge.tropin.
> 
> When I started my test susp cycle I wanted to stack somatropin as soon as possible and so by the middle of the cycle I ordered EuroHormones rHGH from my source. The problem is the vials took 2 months to arrive and they were not refrigerated so I believe the effectiveness of the powder was compromised by the time I got them.
> 
> In spite of this, when I started to inject 2.5 iu daily I felt the day after so many befenits I could not believe it and I needed to report it on my thread for future references. In just a week I was getting leaner and without the use of T4, which I started to use more than a month later with another brand.
> 
> So, with that being said necessary to make you understand why I reached the following conclusion, if I would cut 30-40% (your estimate) from the 8 iu of Hyge injected daily, I could reach 5.6-4.8 iu effectiveness.
> Well, that amount never made feel any better not even equal to what I felt with EuroHormones.
> 
> My conclusion is, they are underdosed even a bit more than that.


Interesting report, thanks BJJ

----------


## Big_Bully1

> I will let you do some digging and make your own mind up.


Thx xtra you.ve been a big help, I'm gonna keep trying it and see what happens. Ever since I used the sterile water there has been less of the itching and smaller welts. I started using 3cc/day and this is my third week. I am noit trying to get huge but to be well defined. Do u recommend moving up to 4 or 5cc/day?

----------


## Xtralarg

> Thx xtra you.ve been a big help, I'm gonna keep trying it and see what happens. Ever since I used the sterile water there has been less of the itching and smaller welts. I started using 3cc/day and this is my third week. I am noit trying to get huge but to be well defined. Do u recommend moving up to 4 or 5cc/day?


If the sides are ok then increase the dose, if youre getting welts Im sure it 192aa.

Do you mean iu's not cc's?

----------


## Big_Bully1

> If the sides are ok then increase the dose, if youre getting welts Im sure it 192aa.
> 
> Do you mean iu's not cc's?


Yes cc's not iu's haha, I'm in nursing class and we are talking medications which are in cc,ml and units. I'm def convinced its 192aa now that I have done some research. I was gonna run the gh for about 3 months then hit some tren /t3 combo. Do u reccomend starting the it sooner? I have a trip to vegas in october HA

----------


## Xtralarg

So how many iu's is one cc then?

It depends on how much you need to do to get where you want to be. Are you having T4 with your gh now?

----------


## Big_Bully1

> So how many iu's is one cc then?
> 
> It depends on how much you need to do to get where you want to be. Are you having T4 with your gh now?


No I am not using T4 with the growth, would that be beneficial? If so, Where could I purchase some?

----------


## BignBig

> What results have you seen so far?
> 
> What sides did you have and how long for?
> 
> Do you still have any sides?
> 
> What sort of gh are you using?


What results have you seen so far? *From 8iu in 3 months: fat loss, can see my upper abs and all the obliques. Not lower abs yet. I believe some body composition changes, I look thicker and "solid" according to some friends. However, this is not reflected in the scale, I'm still around 206 Lbs* 

What sides did you have and how long for?* Not feeling lethargic anymore, my energy level is great. However, cts got sever lately?!?*

What sort of gh are you using? *Jintropin made in China*

----------


## Xtralarg

> What results have you seen so far? *From 8iu in 3 months: fat loss, can see my upper abs and all the obliques. Not lower abs yet. I believe some body composition changes, I look thicker and "solid" according to some friends. However, this is not reflected in the scale, I'm still around 206 Lbs* 
> 
> What sides did you have and how long for?* Not feeling lethargic anymore, my energy level is great. However, cts got sever lately?!?*
> 
> What sort of gh are you using? *Jintropin made in China*


Thanks for the info.

Have you ever used pharm grade ghfrom a Western company? If so how would you compare it to the jin?

----------


## BJJ

I just did a rHGH forearm injection (4 iu).

Anybody does that usually? Any comparison with delts?

----------


## Xtralarg

> I just did a rHGH forearm injection (4 iu).
> 
> Anybody does that usually? Any comparison with delts?


I have never done that BJJ.

How did it feel?

----------


## BJJ

> I have never done that BJJ.
> 
> How did it feel?


I started to cry lol, very very very painful!!!
Test susp injection is a joke in comparison...

----------


## BJJ

I was kidding man...

I felt absolutely nothing.

By the way, the staff is flying through UK.
So, tomorrow I should get it.

----------


## Xtralarg

> I started to cry lol, very very very painful!!!
> Test susp injection is a joke in comparison...





> I was kidding man...
> 
> I felt absolutely nothing.
> 
> By the way, the staff is flying through UK.
> So, tomorrow I should get it.


lol

Well as long as you are ok  :Wink/Grin: 

So now one more question....why the forearm?

----------


## BJJ

> lol
> 
> Well as long as you are ok 
> 
> So now one more question....why the forearm?


Because I injected with a 27g needle and needed to be sure to go inside the muscle. I wanted to do also the traps but then I decided to opt for the forearm (less skin).

----------


## Chev

> Because I injected with a 27g needle and needed to be sure to go inside the muscle. I wanted to do also the traps but then I decided to opt for the forearm (less skin).


LOL! your the man...

----------


## Xtralarg

> No I am not using T4 with the growth, would that be beneficial? If so, Where could I purchase some?


Yes it would but I can help you out with finding any, sorry.

----------


## BignBig

> Thanks for the info.
> 
> Have you ever used pharm grade ghfrom a Western company? If so how would you compare it to the jin?


Hi XL,

This is my first experience with HGH. I cant get my hands on a Phrma Grade. I'm in Australia, it is extremely difficult (unless you married to a physician ).

----------


## ssperka10

**********nn is what i found

----------


## marcus300

> **********nn is what i found


Alot of your posts have been deleted because your havent read the rules, you cant talk about prices,sources or offer your email addy out.

Thanks

----------


## ssperka10

hytropin is that real stuff, the blue tops? I wanna run a Gh cycle during my football season tohave quicker recovery time. I dont want to put on size or gain strength just maybe maintain what I already have throughout the season. I will be running everyday and team will be liting twice a week during the season. Do you think 4IUS daily I could reach those goals Ilve talk about. Im 23 years old and weigh 230 pounds. At the level of FB i get urine testing by the ncca so of course GH needs to be real and undectable. I can get GH from anti aging clinic but they want three to four times as much money for as IF i ordered it if the net. I don't know what to do, so i am asking for your advice So i can order hyge tropin off the net or from antiagin clici get serano, omnitrope, and tevtrope? Looking around 4 IUs daily for 4 months? Which should i do and expect from something like this? Thank you for you help

----------


## Big_Bully1

[QUOTE=Xtralarg;5285810]Yes it would but I can help you out with finding any, sorry.[/QUOTE

Yea I did alot of researching past couple days and it seems like T4 is the way to go ... and the sterile water is working great. Thx for ur help

----------


## Xtralarg

> Originally Posted by Xtralarg
> 
> 
> Yes it would but I cant help you out with finding any, sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> Yea I did alot of researching past couple days and it seems like T4 is the way to go ... and the sterile water is working great. Thx for ur help


No problem, good luck with the cycle, keep us posted.

----------


## BJJ

*rHGH BRANDS QUALITY BLOOD CHECK*

IGF-1: *135* ng/ml [96 - 494]_____________*238*________________________________*461*_________________*520* (40' via IM: *521*)_______*144*
HGH: *0,3* ng/ml [0,0 - 10]_______________*11,1*______________*10,5*______________*22,2*________________*25,7* (40' via IM: *36,3*)______*3,3*

.................................................. ........*EuroHormones*
.................................................. .....................................*Generic Green*
.................................................. .................................................. .............*HardCoreGrowth*
.................................................. .................................................. ..............................................*Hyge.tropin*
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...................................*Somatrope*

*Notes:*
Injection time: 5:30 am (euroh./green/hardc.g.), 6 am (hyge./soma.)
Days on the same drug before testing: 7 (all four types), 3 (soma.)
Blood work time: 8:00 am (all five types)
Amount injected: 4 iu (euroh./green/soma.) - 5 iu (hardc.g./hyge.)
Injection site: umbilical (euroh.) - oblique (green/hardc.g./hyge./soma.)
Injection type: sub-q (all five types)

----------


## Xtralarg

> *rHGH BRANDS QUALITY BLOOD CHECK*
> 
> IGF-1: *135* ng/ml [96 - 494]_____________*238*________________________________*461*_________________*520* (40' via IM: *521*)_______*144*
> HGH: *0,3* ng/ml [0,0 - 10]_______________*11,1*______________*10,5*______________*22,2*________________*25,7* (40' via IM: *36,3*)______*3,3*
> 
> .................................................. ........*EuroHormones*
> .................................................. .....................................*Generic Green*
> .................................................. .................................................. .............*HardCoreGrowth*
> .................................................. .................................................. ..............................................*Hyge.tropin*
> ...


BJJ thats bad news.

Is this not the stuff your wife is taking?

----------


## Xtralarg

More Chinese sh1t. FFS.

----------


## Xtralarg

BJJ post your results on the chinese gh thread please

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...=436935&page=8

----------


## BJJ

> BJJ thats bad news.
> 
> Is this not the stuff your wife is taking?


Yes it is so I believe her good feeling was due from T4 only!

Anyway, since 2 days she is taking Hyge.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Yes it is so I believe her good feeling was due from T4 only!
> 
> Anyway, since 2 days she is taking Hyge.


It's called the placebo effect!

----------


## Matt

Ok so today i called a halt to my hgh cycle, it wasn't because of the bloat as to be honest thats really subsided in the last few days. My upper abs are now clearly showing and lower abs are coming on nicely, veins are now appearing in places i haven't seen them for years.

Ive been getting slight pain in my wrists and they were bloated, as ive said before i couldn't get my watch on. I can get it on now the bloat has gone but the pain in my wrists is to much. I noticed the pain last week but it was mild and it had been getting worse, waking up today made me realise that i cant even train now there that bad, so ive stopped...

So thats it for now, im going to do everything i can to get this stuff tested. Marcus and XL have advised that this stuff isnt hgh and because ive never run pharma gh i bow down to their knowledge...

So what did i experience in the short time i was injecting this white powder..

Good things:

Fantastic sleep
After the initial couple of weeks, far more energetic.
Appetite increase.
Abs really starting to show.
More vascular than ive been in years..

Bad things:

Numbness of hands and arms..
Couldn't stop falling asleep during the day in the first two weeks..
Bad bloat.
Terrible pain in my wrists...

----------


## marcus300

> Ok so today i called a halt to my hgh cycle, it wasn't because of the bloat as to be honest thats really subsided in the last few days. My upper abs are now clearly showing and lower abs are coming on nicely, veins are now appearing in places i haven't seen them for years.
> 
> Ive been getting slight pain in my wrists and they were bloated, as ive said before i couldn't get my watch on. I can get it on now the bloat has gone but the pain in my wrists is to much. I noticed the pain last week but it was mild and it had been getting worse, waking up today made me realise that i cant even train now there that bad, so ive stopped...
> 
> So thats it for now, im going to do everything i can to get this stuff tested. Marcus and XL have advised that this stuff isnt hgh and because ive never run pharma gh i bow down to their knowledge...
> 
> So what did i experience in the short time i was injecting this white powder..
> 
> Good things:
> ...


You said you was bloated all over your body but in the above statement you say your lean and vascular, did the bloat go or as the leaness come on since you stopped taking the gh?

----------


## Matt

> You said you was bloated all over your body but in the above statement you say your lean and vascular, did the bloat go or as the leaness come on since you stopped taking the gh?


Yeah about two weeks ago i started to blow up and it seemed to come on very quick. About a week ago i felt like i was going to explode bloat was or seemed to be all over... However since then the bloat has dropped off and it seems to have been quite dramatic...

No i only stopped the gh today and dont get me wrong, to be clear im by no means ripped. My abs just seem to be far more defined than they were a week ago and the veins in my arms are starting to pop out..

Maybe il see if i can take a picture or get someone to do it for me, the only problem being i dont have a before and after...

This said the pain in my wrists especially in the morning when i get up is just to much...

----------


## marcus300

why are you stopping if the bloat is gone and your getting leaner and more vasuclar

----------


## Matt

> why are you stopping if the bloat is gone and your getting leaner and more vasuclar


Because the pain in my wrist is to much mate, just moving my hand from side to side hurts to much, theres no way i could train with them like this...

The only other thing i can do is have a couple of days off then start again at 2ius a day..

I really need to have this stuff tested though and one way or another i will get it done...

----------


## Big_Bully1

> No problem, good luck with the cycle, keep us posted.


I def will .... but I have one last question, When is the best time to inject the GH and take the T4. I am only taking 4cc/day and 150mcg of T4. I heard that GH in the morning and T4 at night seems to work out well but then I also heard that GH acts like an insulin so you shouldn't inject before you eat. Just a little confused and suggestions?

----------


## Xtralarg

> I def will .... but I have one last question, When is the best time to inject the GH and take the T4. I am only taking 4cc/day and 150mcg of T4. I heard that GH in the morning and T4 at night seems to work out well but then I also heard that GH acts like an insulin so you shouldn't inject before you eat. Just a little confused and suggestions?


A good time to inject is a couple of hours before you are due to get up, this is a time when cortisol levels are at a high and the gh helps to suppress them.

The general consensus with the T4 is to have it on an empty stomach a couple of hours before bed so sometime between you penultimate and last feed is about the best time. Having it too close to bedtime can keep you awake!

----------


## BJJ

Upon ordering Hypertropin I was asked if I wanted the 3.3 mg/vial option or the 4 mg/vial option, so Jin or Hyp.

I chose the second option but now I start to have doubts because by reading the info sheet inside the box I figured out that I have the 3.3 mg/vial and not the 4 one.

I am starting to get mad at this Chinese...





I want to test these vials ASAP.
Did anyone find a place where to test them, regardless the price?

----------


## Xtralarg

> Upon ordering Hypertropin I was asked if I wanted the 3.3 mg/vial option or the 4 mg/vial option, so Jin or Hyp.
> 
> I chose the second option but now I start to have doubts because by reading the info sheet inside the box I figured out that I have the 3.3 mg/vial and not the 4 one.
> 
> I am starting to get mad at this Chinese...
> 
> 
> 
> [URL=URL]
> ...


Didnt they tell you that they were overdosed and that even though the label stated that they are 3.3 they are dosed at 4?

----------


## BJJ

> Didnt they tell you that they were overdosed and that even though the label stated that they are 3.3 they are dosed at 4?


Overdosed yes but I expected to see it written.
Perhaps, I was expecting too much.

In any case, I asked him explanations...

----------


## BJJ

Reply ^^^

_Dear ...,

There is actually 4mg in each veal even though the label says 3.3mg. This
has been so since 2007 when the brand was first introduced. The reason
behind it is a marketing trick, where Hypertropin was slightly overdosed to
give people (bodybuilders, etc) more effect so that the brand would become
popular and loved fast, and get good reviews online.

We are going to change the labels to 4mg per vial from the next batch on

Best Regards,
Z. Y._

----------


## Xtralarg

They always have an excuse!

Why cant they just be honest and up front about what they do!?!

----------


## Big_Bully1

> A good time to inject is a couple of hours before you are due to get up, this is a time when cortisol levels are at a high and the gh helps to suppress them.
> 
> The general consensus with the T4 is to have it on an empty stomach a couple of hours before bed so sometime between you penultimate and last feed is about the best time. Having it too close to bedtime can keep you awake!



Ok so your saying If I have to be up at 6am I should wake up earlier around 4 and inject then go back to sleep and re-awake at 6am?

----------


## Xtralarg

> Ok so your saying If I have to be up at 6am I should wake up earlier around 4 and inject then go back to sleep and re-awake at 6am?


Yes thats right.

----------


## P,B and J

Hey Xtralarg thanks for responding to my first entry. I would have gotten back sooner but couldn't find my way. I have been using hgh and test for 4 years but just getting back in after 8-10 mos off. It has been two months back on: 18 iu's of hgh at bedtime repeat: 18 iu's bedtime (this dose has been ok except with the slin I just started, I am having dull mild head aches and swollen hands) and 1cc of test and I think after reading a bit, I am doing something wrong. A buddy has turned me on to slin which I have used for the last 5 days. I read in one of the blogs about it and considered doing it the way it was suggested but I thought my way would be better. Guess what...I was wrong. I crashed once and that was enough. But, I have gotten results like never before so I want to go in more prepared since this slin is a very serious tool when combined with hgh and test. I have started paying closer attention to my diet too. If anyone has ideas on a better way to tweek my program, let me hear 'em.

----------


## BJJ

So, it has been a week since I am using Hypertropin and happened something that worried me very much, which never happened before.

Basically, since 4 days I am having strong hemicrania on the right side of my head where a naevus is located.

Yesterday, I took a nuclear magnetic resonance; if I will ever go to a neurologist I want to bring some facts with.

----------


## BJJ

I do not know but this Hypertropin I am using seems to be less strong than Hyge.tropin.
XL, I await your thoughts...

By the way, looming over the guy who sold me Somatrope, I got all my money back.  :Wink/Grin: 
After all, I am still a black belt...  :7up:

----------


## 2gethuge

> I do not know but this Hypertropin I am using seems to be less strong than Hyge.tropin.
> XL, I await your thoughts...
> 
> By the way, looming over the guy who sold me Somatrope, I got all my money back. 
> After all, I am still a black belt...


Did you test your igf levels on hypertropin yet bro?

----------


## Xtralarg

> I do not know but this Hypertropin I am using seems to be less strong than Hyge.tropin.
> XL, I await your thoughts...
> 
> By the way, looming over the guy who sold me Somatrope, I got all my money back. 
> After all, I am still a black belt...


As soon as I am able to compare I will let you know my thoughts.

----------


## BJJ

> Did you test your igf levels on hypertropin yet bro?


Not yet, just a feeling.

----------


## Rhino1112

I am currently running 3 units a day, 1.5 upon waking and 1.5 after gym. I started three weeks ago but had to take the second week off due to traveling. My wife is taking 1.5 units upon waking. I think I am going to try taking all three units around 3 or 4 AM. 

Another thing to mention is around red welts. The first week I was on the HGH I did not get any welts and I had strong side effects. This week I have gotten several welts only when I inject into the stomach area. Also, I have not noticed any sides yet except a sort of head "buzz" feeling a few hours after injections. My wife on the other hand is not getting any welts in her stomach area. I know the HGH is 191aa as well. 

Does anyone have any input on changing to a middle of the night injection vs twice a day until I am up to a higher dosage? Would I be losing out by not dividing the doses? I work from 730-5 then hit the gym after dinner so the injection times and food consumption as well as pwo shake has caused difficulties....

----------


## Xtralarg

> I am currently running 3 units a day, 1.5 upon waking and 1.5 after gym. I started three weeks ago but had to take the second week off due to traveling. My wife is taking 1.5 units upon waking. I think I am going to try taking all three units around 3 or 4 AM. 
> 
> Another thing to mention is around red welts. The first week I was on the HGH I did not get any welts and I had strong side effects. This week I have gotten several welts only when I inject into the stomach area. Also, I have not noticed any sides yet except a sort of head "buzz" feeling a few hours after injections. My wife on the other hand is not getting any welts in her stomach area. I know the HGH is 191aa as well. 
> 
> Does anyone have any input on changing to a middle of the night injection vs twice a day until I am up to a higher dosage? Would I be losing out by not dividing the doses? I work from 730-5 then hit the gym after dinner so the injection times and food consumption as well as pwo shake has caused difficulties....


An early AM/ middle of the night injection of 3iu's if fine.

Are you 100% sure it is 191aa? Red welts are a classic sign of 192aa.

----------


## ball6

My wife and i are on our 2nd wk of the yellow cap hgh we bought and im taking 6iu daily in morning and evening.wife is taking 2iu in morning and 2 at nite.Difference ive seen early is frequent headaches joints hurting when i lift heavy. My wife is gaining weight and moody.Some expert advice will be greatly apperciated to determine if we will continue to take it.Thanks

----------


## Xtralarg

> My wife and i are on our 2nd wk of the yellow cap hgh we bought and im taking 6iu daily in morning and evening.wife is taking 2iu in morning and 2 at nite.Difference ive seen early is frequent headaches joints hurting when i lift heavy. My wife is gaining weight and moody.Some expert advice will be greatly apperciated to determine if we will continue to take it.Thanks


Hgh should promote a feeling of wellbeing not low mood.

I can understand the joint pain due to possible fluid retention but not the headaches, the weight gain could again be down to fluid but that should subside very soon.

All in all I doesn't sound good tbh, maybe give it another week and see if the sides go away, if not I would consider stopping taking it.

Have you ever had gh before? If so how did you react then? Have you ever had pharm grade? If not then I would advise you to get some and see how that affects you both.

----------


## Rhino1112

The source I bought the HGH from attests that it is 191aa and there are hundreds of others who have posted on ######that love his green elitropins.... I didnt get any red welts when I tried my stomach again today. I massaged the area after injection so maybe that helped......

----------


## Spartans09

Those are very high doses for you and your wife. Most people start much lower and work up. If this is your first time taking it you really should back the doses down. Maybe 2-3 Iu per day for you and 1 to 1 1/2 for your wife and hold it like that for a couple weeks then build it up from there. No wonder you both are having trouble.

----------


## Ideservethis

Wanted to hop on this thread, goals are mass

Stats:
5'7" ish
205lb
8%bf
29 yrs
3 steroid cycles

HGH: Genetropin, currently about to end week 4. Do 5on/2off

Week 1-4, 1iu HGH in AM upon waking
Week 4-8, 2iu HGH in AM upon waking
Week 8-12, 4iu HGH split into 2 doses 1 in the AM upon waking 1 later in day around 3-4 PM
*Anything further will continue @ 4iu dont plan on going higher

Any thoughts on this protocol, I do know you have to stay on growth for 3-6 months atleast, my next cycle is 3 months from now and plan to come off growth run steroid for 12 weeks then come off and get back on HGH

Also no noticeable changes except veins are thicker, and I seem to be staying super lean when i'm eating like a hog

----------


## Xtralarg

> Wanted to hop on this thread, goals are mass
> 
> Stats:
> 5'7" ish
> 205lb
> 8%bf
> 29 yrs
> 3 steroid cycles
> 
> ...


Ive never heard of Genetropin, is it Generic? Which country is it from?

You wont achieve mass with 4iu's of gh, you need minimum 6iu's but would be better off with 8iu's.

Why are you coming off gh when you run aas that makes no sence whatsoever.

Using 1iu for 4 weeks is a waste of time, you need to ramp up quicker and start at 2iu's.

----------


## Ideservethis

> Ive never heard of Genetropin, is it Generic? Which country is it from?
> 
> You wont achieve mass with 4iu's of gh, you need minimum 6iu's but would be better off with 8iu's.
> 
> Why are you coming off gh when you run aas that makes no sence whatsoever.
> 
> Using 1iu for 4 weeks is a waste of time, you need to ramp up quicker and start at 2iu's.


Its from china, only reason i was coming of GH because I want to run it between cycles to help maintain gains is this not a good reason. Can I stay on GH for 9 months? And you say 2ius to start now do i need to split doses? My doses are only so low because this is my first time and I wanted to use a little as possible to grow, I figured like everything else my diet would decide if i'm bulking or not. 

How would you suggest to run it for a first time cycle currently got 100ius to play with? Also is 5 on 2 off okay or should i do 6 on 1 off or 7on

----------


## BJJ

The more I live the more I need to learn!!!

In the last 5 days I injected before bed, along with 100 mcg of T4, 10 iu of Hypertropin.
I woke up with a face so full of water my eyes could not be seen mostly, I looked like a Chinese, not to mention my ankles and hands; no CTS signs though.

Anyway, after 4 days of this attempt I decided to inject 5 iu always along with 100 mcg of T4 and surprisely, the day after I woke up still with lots of bloat, even though less, but my ABS were much more visible compared to when I was shooting 10 iu.  :Hmmmm:

----------


## Xtralarg

Answers in red




> its from china, only reason i was coming of gh because i want to run it between cycles to help maintain gains is this not a good reason. Can i stay on gh for 9 months? *yes the longer the better, im on for life.*
> 
> and you say 2ius to start now do i need to split doses? *no shoot all the 2iu's at once*
> 
> my doses are only so low because this is my first time and i wanted to use a little as possible to grow, i figured like everything else my diet would decide if i'm bulking or not. *first time or not such low doses will not do much at all, 4iu's is the minimum for fat loss, better sleep etc and then 6-8iu's for building muscle*
> 
> how would you suggest to run it for a first time cycle currently got 100ius to play with? Also is 5 on 2 off okay or should i do 6 on 1 off or 7on


*100iu's is not enough for any sort of gh cycle, you need to get some more. In an ideal world you would run it 7/7 but if this is not possible becaue of the cost then 6/1 is the next best protocol followed by 5/2 and so on*

----------


## Xtralarg

> The more I live the more I need to learn!!!
> 
> In the last 5 days I injected before bed, along with 100 mcg of T4, 10 iu of Hypertropin.
> I woke up with a face so full of water my eyes could not be seen mostly, I looked like a Chinese, not to mention my ankles and hands; no CTS signs though.
> 
> Anyway, after 4 days of this attempt I decided to inject 5 iu always along with 100 mcg of T4 and surprisely, the day after I woke up still with lots of bloat, even though less, but my ABS were much more visible compared to when I was shooting 10 iu.


Soundls like 10ius is too much for you take take ot once BJJ!  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## Ideservethis

> Answers in red
> 
> 
> 
> *100iu's is not enough for any sort of gh cycle, you need to get some more. In an ideal world you would run it 7/7 but if this is not possible becaue of the cost then 6/1 is the next best protocol followed by 5/2 and so on*


Okay sounds good, kinda what i needed to hear. Now is that 7 on 7 off or just always on? When should my ramp from 2iu be? And what about diet does it need to be anything special while bulking on HGH only?

----------


## Xtralarg

> Okay sounds good, kinda what i needed to hear. Now is that 7 on 7 off or just always on? When should my ramp from 2iu be? And what about diet does it need to be anything special while bulking on HGH only?


Sorry my bad re. 7/7 I should of just said 0 days off, so yes always on lol.

Start to ramp as soon as any sides subside, usually within a week or so then go up to 2.5 or 3 and so on...

If youre bulking then your diet will not change because of the gh.

----------


## Ideservethis

> Sorry my bad re. 7/7 I should of just said 0 days off, so yes always on lol.
> 
> Start to ramp as soon as any sides subside, usually within a week or so then go up to 2.5 or 3 and so on...
> 
> If youre bulking then your diet will not change because of the gh.


Thanks Xtra, I will start with 2iu for a couple of weeks then see if i get any sides, I will keep you guys updated on how it works out

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## Xtralarg

> Thanks Xtra, I will start with 2iu for a couple of weeks then see if i get any sides, I will keep you guys updated on how it works out


No worries, keep us posted brotha!

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## Xtralarg

My thoughts after using 100iu's of Hypertropin are that it is about the same quality as Hyge tropin.

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## BJJ

> My thoughts after using 100iu's of Hypertropin are that it is about the same quality as Hyge tropin.


I was awaiting this post...

Thanks for sharing and from now on I will go for Hyge.

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## SlimmerMe

> My wife and i are on our 2nd wk of the yellow cap hgh we bought and im taking 6iu daily in morning and evening.wife is taking 2iu in morning and 2 at nite.Difference ive seen early is frequent headaches joints hurting when i lift heavy. My wife is gaining weight and moody.Some expert advice will be greatly apperciated to determine if we will continue to take it.Thanks


Starting your wife out with this dose might be a bit high. From what I have experienced personally, 4 units daily would personally make me really BLOAT and GAIN way too much weight. However she might want to gain weight. NOT ME!!!

From what I have read, women really do not need as high of a dose because of all the other hormones women have that HGH effects in the female body. 

As recommended by another female board member, I just finished reading a very informative book, " THE NATURAL SUPERWOMAN" by Dr. Uzzi Reiss. He has been prescribing HGH to women for many years. His suggested dose begins with: 0.5-1.5 mg weekly and the maximum dose 3mg weekly. NOTE: mg's not units. And it does seem low. Very low. But---also he feels the low dose gives just as good of results because of the mentioned above: HGH effects so many other female hormones.

And Dr. Thierry Hertoghe, from Belgium, has used HGH longer than any other physician for antiaging purposes. For women, his suggested dosage is between 2-6 units per week. He also says that this conservative does of HGH, taken in combination with other hormones, will actually achieve results as good as just using a higher dose of HGH alone without other hormones.....( don't know if your wife is on other hormones) 

I do know that books cannot tell us how to do anything. EVER EVER EVER!!!! But... these 2 docs have been doing this a longtime for women. 

For myself, I started on 1 unit which was way too much. Went down to .5 then back up to 2 for quite awhile. Now I am back down to 1 unit a day. I felt I was feeling too thick. And most women do not like this thick feeling. I sure don't like it at all. 

I do plan to post my log. I have been looking all over the place for my written notes when I first started. I do remember having a horrible headache myself. And fatigue. And BLOAT.
I have been doing HGH since mid-April.

Good luck to her! Hope this helps.

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## Xtralarg

> I was awaiting this post...
> 
> Thanks for sharing and from now on I will go for Hyge.


It was the result I was hoping for....

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## BJJ

> It was the result I was hoping for....


I just came back from the usual HGH bw.
I want to see the numbers now...

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## Xtralarg

> I just came back from the usual HGH bw.
> I want to see the numbers now...


I am very interested to see what happens with this one....

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## digismash

wow, just read this entire thread! keep it up!!

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## Spartans09

New batch of chineese generic in from same supplier. Supposedely same stuff. Should I get igf-1 one tested again? I tested the last kit at 4 IU's sub-q 45 minutes after administration. It came back at 661.

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## BJJ

The ankles bloat from Hyper starts to worry me because it did not decrease even lowering the dose from 10 to 5 iu ed.

Not even taking exemestane I have noticed any improvement like heppened before with Hyge and they also hurt!

If, by tomorrow morning the situation has not changed, I will use furosemide @ 100 mg ed (2x) for a couple of days.

I do not like it much, I mean this version of rHGH, so I hope for a quick bw response to confirm my happenings.

Might that have something to do with rHuEPO?
I would love to know the answer...

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## bufftiger

Whats up Xtralarg

Man I been reading this thread and its awesome. I'm a new guy and I got this HGH called Bio-Tropin. Have you heard of it? Also I'm currently mixing what they provide with the powder and using the insluin syring and taking about 20-35 day after day. Is there anything I should do to improve this. Like add less liquid or add something like test or deca ? Also I heard its best to take it in the morning and some people say at night. Which is better? I'm on offseason right now and trying to put on some real mass before I do a show next year. I'm a new guy to using HGH so any info would help.

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## Xtralarg

BJJ have you had any bloods done whillst using hyper yet?

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## BJJ

> BJJ have you had any bloods done whillst using hyper yet?


Sure, I did last Monday.

I await the results within Wednesday but in the mean while I stopped using it and I lost 6 lbs of water in 5 days.

How do I know it was water? Well, I am eating 4000 Kcal daily, burning around 3600, being on Test Prop (150 mg ed) and NPP (100 mg ed).

My ankles were hurting, too full of water. I never experienced anything like that before and I am considering not to use Hyper anymore.

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## BJJ

*rHGH BRANDS QUALITY BLOOD CHECK*

IGF-1: *135* ng/ml [96 - 494]_____________*238*________________________________*461*_________________*520*______________*144*____________*455*
HGH: *0,3* ng/ml [0 - 10]________________*11,1*_______________*10,5*_____________*22,2*________________*25,7*______________*3,3*____________*63,3*

.................................................. ........*EuroHormones*
.................................................. .....................................*Generic Green*
.................................................. .................................................. .............*HardCoreGrowth*
.................................................. .................................................. ..............................................*Hyge.tropin*
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......................*Somatrope*
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...............................................*Hypertropin*

*Notes:*
Injection time: 5:30 am (eurh/green/hdg), 6 am (hyg/som/hyp)
Days on the same drug before testing: 7 (all five types), 3 (som)
Blood work time: 8:00 am (all six types)
Amount injected: 4 iu (eurh/green/som) - 5 iu (hdg/hyg/hyp)
Injection site: umbilical (eurh) - oblique (green/hdg/hyg/som/hyp)
Injection type: sub-q (all six types)

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## westcoastriot

Hey guys. I just want to say first off that this thread is the second one in which I've been introduced to most of you from the sidelines and both of these threads have been incredibly informative and factual. Thank you all for putting your experiences out there for the rest of us. 

I've been following a few threads online here and after reading them through, I feel much more enlightened about HGH products. Im new to all this, and the site itself, so excuse my ignorance, but am I reading that you BJJ and XLarge, are still taking generic Chinese brands of HGH? Cause I spent almost two days of free time at work reading about the horror stories of your experiences on another thread, and now because Im new to all the brand names that are out there, Im not sure if these new posts on this thread are involving Pharm grade products or not. It might be none of my business, but I'd love know if you guys are talking about pharm grade or not. 

Im personally going to do my best to get my hands on a quality product, but my knowledge is so poor in this area that I don't even know the names of any solid brands to ask my source for. I've been doing as much research as I can online because at the end of the day, I know my source is only my friend as long as Im spending cash. If you would be so kind as read my senario in the next paragraph and give me some input I'd be in your debt. 

As it stands, Im 6'1" and weigh in at about 210lbs. Im not able to ascertain my BF% as Im currently in the bush working but I do run about 2.5miles a day on the tread and lift for about 30-40mins afterwards. Diet is full of fruit, vegs and protien with low carb and fat intake. I have muscle, but I also have luv handles and a bit of a belly that I cannot get rid of no matter how hard I try. My goal is to cut down to about 190-195 of lean muscle and also improve my moods, sleeping patterns. 

What kind of dosing would you recommend as a first cycle of Pharmaceutical grade HGH?

How long should I cycle for?

Will the gains that I make off of HGH (weight loss, mood improvements, strength and sleeping) be permanent or will they disappear after I stop using it?

Do you know whether the pituitary gland will be weakened from taking HGH or will it be encouraged to produce more on its own following a cycle?

Thanks for any input you might have, and again, thank you for all the informative discussions that I've read.

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## westcoastriot

Just forgot to mention yesterday, that Im 29 years old, and my metabolism is not nearly as fast as it should be. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

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## westcoastriot

Ok. So I've got a lot of questions and here's one more for you guys. 

Does anyone know the different effects between gh that has 29aa and 191aa?

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## boss4romdabay

Deleted

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## boss4romdabay

Deleted

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## Spartans09

It took about 3 weeks for the bloat to calm down for me at 2.5 IU's a day. I kept it pretty constant at that level. If you up the dose it can come back. Keep an eye on your bloodpressure. Some other members had bad/fake gh that spiked the BP to very dangerous levels.

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## boss4romdabay

Deleted

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## Spartans09

I never had it that bad. I would back the dose way down and slowly ramp it from there.

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## mperk

> After much thought and deliberation I've decided Monday will be my start date for hgh, I've been looking at it for the past few weeks and i cant take it anymore...
> 
> As I've said before i shall run it for 2 months before adding aas...


007 - just curious - why start the hgh 2 months before AAS? i was going to start a new cycle next month with test, EQ and hgh + igf and maybe some other peptides.

Thanks. BTW - I assume that is u in the avitar - Fukking HUGE back pimp daddy! how do you get thru door ways? LOL

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## supe3

i know you asked 007 but if you dont mind I will say that it takes HGH 3 months to really start working. so the pre start up i would guess would be do to that and the fact that it takes time to build up to the dose you want to use, you cant just start taking 5ius a day you need to work up to that other wise you are looking at all kinds of joint problems.

Just a little side thing, i think its a good idea to continue your HGH for a time after you cycle as well, as it can help with PCT, like with your cortisol levels and keep you from going catabolic and keep your gains

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## Xtralarg

> i know you asked 007 but if you dont mind I will say that it takes HGH 3 months to really start working. so the pre start up i would guess would be do to that and the fact that it takes time to build up to the dose you want to use, you cant just start taking 5ius a day you need to work up to that other wise you are looking at all kinds of joint problems.
> 
> Just a little side thing, i think its a good idea to continue your HGH for a time after you cycle as well, as it can help with PCT, like with your cortisol levels and keep you from going catabolic and keep your gains


Good advice.

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## supe3

> Good advice.


thanks man, from a vet like yourself that means a lot

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## mperk

> i know you asked 007 but if you dont mind I will say that it takes HGH 3 months to really start working. so the pre start up i would guess would be do to that and the fact that it takes time to build up to the dose you want to use, you cant just start taking 5ius a day you need to work up to that other wise you are looking at all kinds of joint problems.
> 
> Just a little side thing, i think its a good idea to continue your HGH for a time after you cycle as well, as it can help with PCT, like with your cortisol levels and keep you from going catabolic and keep your gains


Thanks dude - i'm reading tons about it now and of course confused as fuk! hahahahaha I appreciate the advice - i think I am going to go for 3-6 months and see where that leads. What do you think is a good protocol to build up? 2 iu's for a week then 3 etc until I get to 5?

thanks man!

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## supe3

if you were to ask a doctor they wouldnt want to you increase any more than one iu at time with two months in between, but seeings how no one on this board really wants to only follow doctors orders... I personally would not increase more than 2 ius at a time and for me that may be a lot, and I would give it at least a week or two in between increases, but no matter what you do you are simply going to have to listen to your own body. If you feel the sides (ie bloating, headaches, or joint aches) are too much for you to handle then you simply back down the dose and stay at the dose you were at before for a couple more weeks and then try and up it again, a little less the next time. Some people say they just tuff out the sides for a couple days, others say they were so bad they had to back down and restart. 

I think 5ius a day is a great number, but I would never think about cycling GH for anything less then 6 months*.*

you may also consider the 5/2 protocol. (look into it) i personally dont think you loose that much by taking 2 days off a week. but it will help stretch out your cycle longer and that to me is much more important.

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## mperk

Thanks Supe - good advice - i'm going to look at 6 months + just started back up last week at 2 iu so i should be at 5 before I start my next cycle in 4 weeks. ;-)

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## supe3

> Thanks Supe - good advice - i'm going to look at 6 months + just started back up last week at 2 iu so i should be at 5 before I start my next cycle in 4 weeks. ;-)


you should start a thread and keep us all up to date on your cycle with before and after pics if your cool with that. I really enjoy seeing peoples results

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## mperk

> you should start a thread and keep us all up to date on your cycle with before and after pics if your cool with that. I really enjoy seeing peoples results


thanks - I think i will - keeps me honest and makes me feel uber guilty when i go for the ben & Jerry's at midnight after being good all day long! :7up:

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## nef99

edit,

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## marcus300

^^^ please read the rules, and also start your own thread if you require any information what doesnt break the rules

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## nef99

Everyone...

I apologize for my last remark

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## spenbro

My doc just put me on HGH (2iu eod) for six months. He recommends that I inject into my leg. Keep in mind that I have no fat in my quad...should I shoot it into my stomach or does it make a difference? I'm also on 300mg test cyp (weekly) and 45mg anavar (ed).

After reading this entire thread, I'm beginning to think I should be running T4. What's everyone's opinion on this low dose? After a month, I'll probably opt to up my dose.

Age: 34 (male)
15% bf
Experience: 17 years

Does anyone think I'll get much bloat from this low dose (pharma grade)? I'm trying to figure out what I'm in for. I start in one week. 

Any help/advise would be much appreciated!

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## swede

HI

Age 44
Body fat 30%
1,77 cm
90kg

Been on 1,4 IU 5 on 2 off for 6 weeks + 0,75 ML testo per week

Body composition dramatically changed. get a lot off comments that I lost weight but have actually gained 2kg.
Much better mood and sleep. Migraine completely disappeared. no need for midday nap 

side effects is slight water retention and stiffness in wrists. goes away when I am active though.

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## yannick35

> HI
> 
> Age 44
> Body fat 30%
> 1,77 cm
> 90kg
> 
> Been on 1,4 IU 5 on 2 off for 6 weeks + 0,75 ML testo per week
> 
> ...


Interesting because i am on 2IU and thinking off dropping back to 1IU everyday. Been on for about 1 month now

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## swede

Just did my blood levels, will see what the doc says about the dosage when I get the results

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## swede

mabee its my age 44, but if I were to take 5 or more IU a day I would be a water balloon.......I see a drastic reduction in fluid on the 2 days I am off

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## swede

7th week , I have a very light skin and nearly never tan, until now that is. slowly getting a deep tan. is it the HGH ?

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## Brohim

Why does HGH make people tired through the day? I thought it was suppose to increase well-being and energy?

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## Razor

> Why does HGH make people tired through the day? I thought it was suppose to increase well-being and energy?


It lowers your t4 thyroid, if you supplement t4 this will help greatly.

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## Abmaster

How much Hgh would u need to take to get an Hgh gut ?? Would that b a result from overdosing abusing it or ????

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## snowblowjoe

I am getting a kit of HGH which should last me about 2 months or so. When do you first start to notice the effects of HGH? I am already running test e/sustanon 350. I have been running that at 325mg EW for almost 3 weeks now. 

Basically I want to know if I only do HGH for 2 months am I completely wasting my money? Or will I get some noticeable results? How long does it take to kick in? Because if I notice the effects and they are pretty good then I am willing to pay the price for more. Another 2 month kit atleast.

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## Brohim

> How much Hgh would u need to take to get an Hgh gut ?? Would that b a result from overdosing abusing it or ????


Probably professonial BBer level's. Nothing you have to worry about

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## Brohim

> I am getting a kit of HGH which should last me about 2 months or so. When do you first start to notice the effects of HGH? I am already running test e/sustanon 350. I have been running that at 325mg EW for almost 3 weeks now. 
> 
> Basically I want to know if I only do HGH for 2 months am I completely wasting my money? Or will I get some noticeable results? How long does it take to kick in? Because if I notice the effects and they are pretty good then I am willing to pay the price for more. Another 2 month kit atleast.



From the studies Ive read it seems like the most pronounced effect's are found between 6 month mark to over a year. So with this in mind, HGH is not something you would "cycle" - like test. You would probably see results in 3 month's but IMO would not be worth it because you would have to stop right before it really started to work. So perhaps wait until you can do at least a 6 month run. It also depends on your age. If you are young and igf-1 levels are already high it would not be as efficent.

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## Muscletech

HGH is suggested to stacked with insulin right?

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## swede

HI

Six months now with hgh, tried to half dose from 0,4 0,2 but went back up again. Significant better complexion (tan very easy) recover fast from training, went from 30% to 15% fat. Tinitus gone. Nails growing like hell and slowly going towards blond from grey hair. Found it best to take in the morning, although when tried to take it at night I needed less hours sleep.

BR
Swede

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## swithuk

> HI
> 
> Six months now with hgh, tried to half dose from 0,4 0,2 but went back up again. Significant better complexion (tan very easy) recover fast from training, went from 30% to 15% fat. Tinitus gone. Nails growing like hell and slowly going towards blond from grey hair. Found it best to take in the morning, although when tried to take it at night I needed less hours sleep.
> 
> BR
> Swede


what growth are you running ?

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## ChuckEisenmench

It would help if you can expain what type of HGH you are doing, Who do you get it from, friend?, website?, Dr. Have you done it long enough- 5 weeks to do BW for IGF-1? Privatemdlabs.com costs only $70.

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## chasepugh

First post, T4 can only be obtained with a Dr's prescription, correct?

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## marcus300

> First post, T4 can only be obtained with a Dr's prescription, correct?


No its available all over the interent, just do a search

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## chasepugh

I have found several sites selling t4. I know I can't ask for a source, but can anyone recommend a website that you trust? I don't want to get screwed or have my credit card info hacked.

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## marcus300

> I have found several sites selling t4. I know I can't ask for a source, but can anyone recommend a website that you trust? I don't want to get screwed or have my credit card info hacked.


Sorry we aren't a source board.

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## chasepugh

Is Levothyroxine Sodium (Generic Synthroid ) the type of t4 that I need?

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## MyteeJ

I am on my 6th week of TevTropin, 1.5 IU 5 on 2 off. Also on an HRT protocol and taking 20 mcg of Sermorelin every night.

Body fat has been reduced, tighter skin, grays going back to dark brown.

What I have not found at this point is tendinitis has not diminished as I would have hoped. Recovery after workouts is greatly improved but lingering injuries are still apparent at this point.

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## Hephens

My HGH experience at 10iu's/day with Chinese generics switching between jintropins and yellow tops(jintropins being slightly better quality) 

This was ages ago btw, I notice i went from 25%BF to 15%BF after 4 months without dieting and was on a poor diet, tighter skin, better complexion, increased energy, increased sex drive, better well being, deep sleep, better body composition(more broad/wide looking not humped/shrink-ed), i honestly felt much smarter and head clearer, I also felt uplifted alot more than usual on it, not feeling down or depressed on my bad days. 

Side effects were bloat, carpel tunnel, feeling sleep. But some of the sides started to subside after a few weeks for me.

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## swithuk

> My HGH experience at 10iu's/day with Chinese generics switching between jintropins and yellow tops(jintropins being slightly better quality) 
> 
> This was ages ago btw, I notice i went from 25%BF to 15%BF after 4 months without dieting and was on a poor diet, tighter skin, better complexion, increased energy, increased sex drive, better well being, deep sleep, better body composition(more broad/wide looking not humped/shrink-ed), i honestly felt much smarter and head clearer, I also felt uplifted alot more than usual on it, not feeling down or depressed on my bad days. 
> 
> Side effects were bloat, carpel tunnel, feeling sleep. But some of the sides started to subside after a few weeks for me.


how long after you started running the g.h did you get these benefits ?

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## Hephens

> how long after you started running the g.h did you get these benefits ?


2-3 weeks in started noticing fat loss and everything ellse just continued after that, got to a stage after a 2-3 months where i was feeling use to it so i couldn't really tell what it was like to be off HGH, until i actually came off than realize how much better being on HGH is.

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## swithuk

> 2-3 weeks in started noticing fat loss and everything ellse just continued after that, got to a stage after a 2-3 months where i was feeling use to it so i couldn't really tell what it was like to be off HGH, until i actually came off than realize how much better being on HGH is.


ok thanks mate . im on 5i.u e.d for about 3-4 weeks so far . im not noticing anything that strong . no weight loss so far . just feeling slight pressure in my hands and under my forearms and slight tingling in my hands plus *subtle* energy rise / feeling of well being 
im guessing if im runnin half what you are then i will really start noticing over the next two weeks

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## Hephens

> ok thanks mate . im on 5i.u e.d for about 3-4 weeks so far . im not noticing anything that strong . no weight loss so far . just feeling slight pressure in my hands and under my forearms and slight tingling in my hands plus *subtle* energy rise / feeling of well being 
> im guessing if im runnin half what you are then i will really start noticing over the next two weeks


Yes most definitely, i Kinda felt taking 10IU was too much because i felt my body wasn't utilizing all of it, 5IU is just fine. Splitting it up helped me, taking 5IU in morning than 5IU in afternoon, its important to take it first thing in the morning than any other time, that's when your body is in need of it, After training is good aswel. 

Everyone is different with results, hopefully some fatloss will come soon for you but your already starting to feel everything ellse, just sit back and enjoy it while you can.

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## swithuk

> Yes most definitely, i Kinda felt taking 10IU was too much because i felt my body wasn't utilizing all of it, 5IU is just fine. Splitting it up helped me, taking 5IU in morning than 5IU in afternoon, its important to take it first thing in the morning than any other time, that's when your body is in need of it, After training is good aswel. 
> 
> Everyone is different with results, hopefully some fatloss will come soon for you but your already starting to feel everything ellse, just sit back and enjoy it while you can.


ok great many thanks for the input
iam interested to know why you do the g.h in the mornings ? im not as experienced as you however i understood that the body does all its growing ,repairing and basically everything while your asleep 

so thats why id been doing it at night before i go to sleep . i was just assuming that was the best time to do it 

iam intrigued to know why the morning is the best time ? what difference will it make , thanks

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## ChuckEisenmench

I had the same assumptions about time of injection. After a few weeks the effects have been slight. I use HGH for maintaining gains with PCT.

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## Hephens

> ok great many thanks for the input
> iam interested to know why you do the g.h in the mornings ? im not as experienced as you however i understood that the body does all its growing ,repairing and basically everything while your asleep 
> 
> so thats why id been doing it at night before i go to sleep . i was just assuming that was the best time to do it 
> 
> iam intrigued to know why the morning is the best time ? what difference will it make , thanks


Because your body's hgh is in its lowest point when you wake up in the morning and at night when you sleep your own body's natural gh kicks in.

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## swithuk

> Because your body's hgh is in its lowest point when you wake up in the morning and at night when you sleep your own body's natural gh kicks in.


ok thanks mate , good to know

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## t-dogg

great read. Id love to run hgh starting on my next cycle, pending I can find a real source....

----------

