# GENERAL FORUM > IN THE NEWS >  my good friend arrested :(

## dirtyi730

dude i grew up with is gonna do alot of time for accidentally killing someone in a fight this morning. he's on his first cycle so you already know how this story is gonna go. so ****ed up i'm in shock.

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## thegodfather

Hopefully your buddy can get negligent homicide, or depraved indifference. He's probably best pleading it out. Obviously his intention was not to kill the guy, so if the state has to prove means rea in order to convict that might be a card to play. As long as he doesnt admit to using Testosterone , and they dont find it in his belongings, he will be fine, they wont be able to detect it.

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## dirtyi730

they got him booked on second degree murder right now. don't look good for him and the witnesses aren't helping matters. they are painting him as a piece of shit and the other guy as an angel. it was a fight gone bad nothing more.

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## Shol'va

Bummer....

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## wmaousley

Hate to hear this about your friend.

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## wmaousley

Were their guns or knives involved?

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## dirtyi730

no fists only

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## SexySweetheart

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## jimmyinkedup

^^Well i dont know any of the circumstances surrounding this but if someone raises their hands and intends to harm me or my family - I will do whatever is necessary to make them stop - including hitting them till they do. If they should happen to die as a result of my defense - so be it. Now that being said I will avoid such confrontations at all costs - but if it should occur those are my personal feelings on the matter.

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## wmaousley

No I am all for it. My question is why no one helped the victim. I am sure others witnessed it.

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## -KJ-

> ^^Well i dont know any of the circumstances surrounding this but if someone raises their hands and intends to harm me or my family - I will do whatever is necessary to make them stop - including hitting them till they do. If they should happen to die as a result of my defense - so be it. Now that being said I will avoid such confrontations at all costs - but if it should occur those are my personal feelings on the matter.


I am with Jimmy here... I havnt been in a fight since I was 7 years old but I would do the same if anyone tried to hurt me or my family.

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## gixxerboy1

> ummm am I the only 1 that is ok with someone that "accedently" killed a person, going to jail ? 
> ...dont know about the rest of yall, but I have managed to not accidently kill anyone lately


none of us know the full story of what happened in this case. But if you get into a fight with someone intending to cause harm and kill them you should goto jail. Even if you didnt mean to kill them thats part of the risk.

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## redz

Agree^ Self defence is another story though. This is why it is always best to avoid fighting unless there is just no other choice.

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## Dytum

Wow thats truly insane. Ive always been one to avoid fights, its chilidish and pathetic imo. Society should be above it. I wouldn't fight anyone unless they came at me swinging or with something. Im not one to get caught up in the moment or risk my or someone elses life ( in turn mine again via the law )

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## dirtyi730

i agree he should go to jail but it's a friend of like 15 yrs so it kinda sux. i actually know both sides... the guy going away has a 1 and 2 yr old and the guy that died his wife is due in just a few days.

story is the guy kept coming back to a party after being kicked out. the third time he came back he was confronted outside. and i feel bad for my friend because he didn't intend to do that to the guy. had it just been a beating nothing would have been said, no cops, nothin. but because he accidently died it's murder. i think manslaughter or something less is more appropriate but what do i know.

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## Noles12

> i agree he should go to jail but it's a friend of like 15 yrs so it kinda sux. i actually know both sides... the guy going away has a 1 and 2 yr old and the guy that died his wife is due in just a few days.
> 
> story is the guy kept coming back to a party after being kicked out. the third time he came back he was confronted outside. and i feel bad for my friend because he didn't intend to do that to the guy. had it just been a beating nothing would have been said, no cops, nothin. but because he accidently died it's murder. i think manslaughter or something less is more appropriate but what do i know.


You dont accidentally die. Im sorry to hear this about your friend but to beat the guy to death over coming to a party sounds extreme. Unless it was a freak accident then i dont see how he could possibly beat the guy to death "accidentally"

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## dirtyi730

we are all smart enough to know the def of accident. it was not his intent to kill the guy. and it's safe to say a fight on its own isn't a huge deal especially when the guy had it coming. there's some ppl that just like to fight i know i went through a time like that. that being said my friend got the better of him very quick and before u know it a piece of bone that broke in his head from being punched severed an artery causing his death. i define that as an accident, not a beating to the death...

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## Brohim

why did the dude want to come back to the party. And if his wife was due in a day or two why was he out partying. And in any case it sucks. If you make the decision to punch someone you gotta be ready to face the consequences of your action's even if it wasn't intended to cause death he was intending to cause harm.

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## thegodfather

The legal doctrine of Mens Rea, means that he had to have the intent in his mind to kill the man, often called 'malice of forethought.' If it was not his intent to kill the guy, but simply to assault him, it is a homicide, but not necessarily 1st or 2nd degree murder. Manslaughter is much more appropriate. People get into fist fights everyday, but seldomly do they fall to the ground and hit their heads and die. In those instances, the person who hit them is responsible for their death, but is not and should not be considered on the same level as a person who assaults someone with a deadly weapon with the INTENT to kill them. This is essentially what Mens Rea means, but it can get tricky. It really depends on the circumstances, the prosecutors disposition, his defense attorneys skill, etc, and so on.

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## dirtyi730

> why did the dude want to come back to the party. And if his wife was due in a day or two why was he out partying. And in any case it sucks. If you make the decision to punch someone you gotta be ready to face the consequences of your action's even if it wasn't intended to cause death he was intending to cause harm.


he was ****ed up and starting shit. asked to leave kept coming back. so he ended up on the losing end of the altercation he was asking for... but i agree neither one of them should have been at a stupid ****ing house party. they were 27 and 25 and fathers... not in ****ing high school. this shouldn't have happened. (the funeral is tonight and i just heard she had the baby today)




> The legal doctrine of Mens Rea, means that he had to have the intent in his mind to kill the man, often called 'malice of forethought.' If it was not his intent to kill the guy, but simply to assault him, it is a homicide, but not necessarily 1st or 2nd degree murder. Manslaughter is much more appropriate. People get into fist fights everyday, but seldomly do they fall to the ground and hit their heads and die. In those instances, the person who hit them is responsible for their death, but is not and should not be considered on the same level as a person who assaults someone with a deadly weapon with the INTENT to kill them. This is essentially what Mens Rea means, but it can get tricky. It really depends on the circumstances, the prosecutors disposition, his defense attorneys skill, etc, and so on.


yea it all does depend on the circumstances and it doesn't look good for him. i'm pissed the guy acted like enough of an ass he had to have his ass beat, i kinda wanna beat his ass still he shouldn't have even been there, NEITHER of them should have been there.

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## dirtyi730

there was no intent that's why he was charged with 2nd degree... which still carries alotta yrs...

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## tcw

> The legal doctrine of Mens Rea, means that he had to have the intent in his mind to kill the man, often called 'malice of forethought.' If it was not his intent to kill the guy, but simply to assault him, it is a homicide, but not necessarily 1st or 2nd degree murder. Manslaughter is much more appropriate. People get into fist fights everyday, but seldomly do they fall to the ground and hit their heads and die. In those instances, the person who hit them is responsible for their death, but is not and should not be considered on the same level as a person who assaults someone with a deadly weapon with the INTENT to kill them. This is essentially what Mens Rea means, but it can get tricky. It really depends on the circumstances, the prosecutors disposition, his defense attorneys skill, etc, and so on.


I don't know if you can jump to those conclusions without more facts. It depends on a number of things. 

Was the perp a Black Belt in Karate or Jeet Kune Do?

Did the perp have a history of violence?

Will the witnesses say he pounded the guy in the head 20 times?

Will anyone come forward and say the perp was a AAS user and will the judge allow that testimony?

Is the victim related to the prosecutor, Cops, attorney friends of the prosecutor, judges, politicians, etc?

The legal system has a lot of latitude in these cases. Mens Rea certainly would come into play....but manslaughter in one state can mean 10 yrs or More. Especially if the perp has a record...and someone rats his arse out as a steroid user.

IF they prove willful and harmful intent...then the charges could be 2nd degree Murder. 

Sounds like you are a lawyer and like you alluded to "Its called aggravating and problematic circumstances."

Yep...you take a chance anytime you hit someone. And if the other dude was drunk...the prosecutor will argue he was defenseless. (last time some drunk tried to fight me...i just pushed him off...and he fell into a glass table and sliced his back. Had a big gash in his lower back that wouldn't stop bleeding. Needless to say the cops came and i was concerned...but i was never charged).

Criminal cases can take some weird ass turns...never know what's gonna happen. Probably the most unpredictable area of Law.

As many people as i've wanted to clobber...i've been lucky and not gone over the line. It could easily end up like this if we aren't careful.

~T

PS. This guy went outside after some drunk guy...not good. Sounds like your buddy went over the line and hit someone he probably shouldn't have. In those cases...where someone is out of line....always call the cops.

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