# FITNESS and NUTRITION FORUM > DIET AND NUTRITION >  Ok so up until a few days ago I have been getting all of my diet and cycle advice

## billgates

Ok so up until a few days ago I have been getting all of my diet and cycle advice locally from someone who others would consider very knowledgeable. It never occured to me to cross reference everything he has told me with other knowledgeable sources (online). Once he started saying things that just didn't add up, I decided to do my own research to verify everything he was saying. From a single 12 hour period of research I have already completely modified the cycle he set me up with and am now looking to perfect my diet. I feel great about my cycle and dosages, it is my third cycle and my first time using Tren . Stats are as follows:

28 yrs old
6'1
231
19% BF
Lifting 4 years consistently


Cycle:

1-10 280mg Test400 EOD
1-8 100mg Tren EOD
3-14 12.5mg Aromasin ED
14-16 6.25mg Aromasin ED

PCT

12-16
Clomid 50/25/25/25 Nolva 40/20/20/20
HCG (not here yet, still researching dosage)



As all of you know, you can read 10000 different opinions about how to properly diet. I do notice that there are some consistencies though. I have decided that I definitely need to eat 6 meals a day and take in 400+ grams of protein. This for me is easy. The rest I am not so sure about. Also since I am a fat piece of shit, I am going to be adding cardio. This was something that just was not an option in the past due to my schedule. It always came down to me having to choose cardio or lifting and I always went with weights. Now that I will be taking an online class this semester, it frees up my mornings on tues and thurs and I can now add in much needed cardio!

Anyway back to my diet. I want to figure out how to get maximum results out of the Tren as far as lowering my BF while maintaining my strength and not sacrificing ANY muscle growth whatsoever. I thought I figured all that out by reading the article on bodybuilding .com recommended at the top of this forum. The link is: www .bodybuilding com/fun/berardi41 .htm After reading that I designed a 5000 calorie diet, 6 meals a day, alternating between protein/fat and protein/carb meals. I thought it was perfect.... Until I posted in the Anabolic thread on this site and no one liked it. They referred me here. Here is the diet I came up with:



Targets

4484 calories 450g protein

MORNING SHAKE - protein /carb (8:30)

200 protein scoop x2[50] 
290 oatmeal - 2 cups[12] 
105 banana 
244 2 cups fat free milk[17]

BREAKFAST - protein /fat (9:30)

200 egg x2[13] 
126 bacon x3[9] 
282 3 tbls peanut butter[12] 
fish oil tab x2

MID SHAKE - protein /carb (12:30)

200 protein scoop x2[50]
244 2 cups fat free milk[17] 
105 banana 420 handful mixed nuts and dried fruit[6]

LUNCH - protein /fat (2:30)

328 chicken breast[35] 
125 onions 
68 2 cups green beans 
225 can of tuna[26] 
fish oil tab x2

PRE DINNER SNACK (5:30)

270 Cliff builders bar[20]


DINNER - protein /fat (8:00)

328 chicken breast[35] 
31 bell peppers 
30 lettuce 
226 cheese[14] 
62 sour cream

PWO SHAKE - protein /carb (10:00)

200 protein scoop x2[50] 
244 2 cups milk[17] 
290 oatmeal - 2 cups[12] 
200 32oz gatorade

Calories= 5043 Protein = 395





What should I do to this diet so that I come out of this with max gains and max fat loss?

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## --->>405<<---

Hey bill and welcome to the forum man  :Smilie:  

2 very important factors with u IMO:

1. Ur bf% is too high to cycle

2. Ur diet is terrible( *WAY* too many cals and the wrong kinds of aLot of stuff)

Sorry to sound harsh but wanted to make things very clear rite off the rip..

I do have a suggestion for u.. We can get ur diet in good shape for cutting and in prob 6 months or so u can re evaluate the whole cycle thing.. I wouldnt want to cycle unless i was down to 12% bf .. And dont recommend u do either.. Not to mention if u use the diet u currently have posted ur just gonna get fatter.. Again im just here to help.. U need to understand the proper way to diet before starting an AAS cycle.. I can show u how if ud like..  :Smilie:

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## billgates

Please help me with my diet. I already started the cycle and do not want to stop. I have all my PCT in place. If I can't get some guidance ill end up just trying to figure it out on my own and probably do it all wrong. At least point me in the right direction.

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## JohnnyVegas

Just to double check your math, that is:

980mg/wk test
350mg/wk tren 

That is pretty heavy. I would lighten up unless you have a lot of cycling experience. I know this is the nutrition forum, but there are others more qualified than me to comment on that.  :Smilie:

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## billgates

> Just to double check your math, that is:
> 
> 980mg/wk test
> 350mg/wk tren 
> 
> That is pretty heavy. I would lighten up unless you have a lot of cycling experience. I know this is the nutrition forum, but there are others more qualified than me to comment on that.



Yes those numbers are accurate. I did 980mg/wk test on my last cycle so used it again. And I researched 100mg/EOD for the tren.

I can lower the test to .5ml/shot and that will be 700mg/wk and lower the tren to .75ml/shot which will net me new totals of:


700mg/wk test
262mg/wk tren


Will this still be affective? I'm already semi concerned this stuff is under dosed because its home brew. I don't get night sweats, never had a cough on injection, and my urine hasn't changed colors.

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## --->>405<<---

well to start out with u need to learn how to figure out ur basal metabolic rate and ur total daily energy expenditure.. its in the stickies at the top but since i like doing math ill spell it out for u.. u need to learn this formula ... 

231lbs at 19%bf(*is this accurate???*)

231 x .19 = 43.89(lbs of fat)
231 - 44 = 187(lbs LBM)
187 x .4536 = 84.82(LBM KG)
(84.82 x 21.6) + 370 = 2202(BMR-how many cals u need at rest/day)
2202 x 1.55(working out 5 days/week) = 3413tdee 

to cut u need to create a deficit from this number(3413)
tdee tends to err to the high side .. i would recommend u start at 2500 cals/day.. 40/40/20 is the standard split to start but i think itll give u too many carbs.. 

ud be at 250g P/250g C/55g F

i think 250g carbs while cutting is too many..if i were u id start at 150g carbs ..so ur split would then be:
350g protein
150g carbs
55g fat

u need to come up with a better diet than what u have.. the *only carbs* u need to eat are: oats(whole oats not instant), yams, brown rice, cottage cheese(2% or less in ur last meal), fibrous green veggies(broccoli,asparagus,spinach..etc..) and *thats it*

split ur 350g protein between 6 meals and split ur* carbs* equally in *meal 1, pre workout, and post workout* ( except for the cottage cheese and green veggies)

keep ur protein lean:boneless chk breast,93% or leaner ground beef(i use 96% fat free), tuna in can, eggwhites, tilapia, etc...

come up with a diet meeting these criteria and post it and we can have a look.. be sure to post meal times and workout times.. also *CARDIO*..how many days/week and for how long?? i suggest u wake up early in the am and do it then *before u eat*.. u need to try to do it 5-6 days per week.. get in some HIIT cardio when u can.. this am fasted cardio will really get the fat coming off.. cardio PWO is also good...

in the mean time ill also post ur current diet and highlight what i think is wrong with it just to give u an idea of where ur at..

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## --->>405<<---

> ok so up until a few days ago i have been getting all of my diet and cycle advice locally from someone who others would consider very knowledgeable. It never occured to me to cross reference everything he has told me with other knowledgeable sources (online). Once he started saying things that just didn't add up, i decided to do my own research to verify everything he was saying. From a single 12 hour period of research i have already completely modified the cycle he set me up with and am now looking to perfect my diet. I feel great about my cycle and dosages, it is my third cycle and my first time using tren . Stats are as follows:
> 
> 28 yrs old
> 6'1
> 231
> 19% bf
> lifting 4 years consistently
> 
> 
> ...


diet needs alot of work.. ur gonna want to focus on fatloss and hanging onto LBM.. hard to make great gains eating at a deficit which is why i suggested waiting to cycle until u get the fat off...

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## billgates

What if I eat big and see this cycle out, put on Max amount of muscle, and then cut naturally for the next 3 months? Thank you very much for the info though.

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## BrownGirl

First of all welcome! I have to agree with the other guys here. You probably should be cutting first to get your bf below about 15%, which is when you should start cycling. Otherwise you could be damaging your body. And like they said, the bacon's gotta go no matter if you're cutting or bulking. I wouldn't do the dried fruit either because they usually have a ton of sugar. 

Your protein need to be about 1.5 - 2 times your LBM. Also you should post how many carbs and fats you're getting. That way your diet can be critiqued better. 

Anyways, goodluck!  :Smilie:

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## --->>405<<---

Well if u "eat big" as in the diet u proposed for this cycle(which i dont think u should be doing) chances are very likely itll take alot more than 3 months to cut the fat off u accumulate and ur prob gonna lose all ur gains in the process.. I gave u everything i think u need.. What u do with it is ur deAl dude.. Good luck.. Ur gonna need it  :Smilie:

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## billgates

Just did my body fat again at work and it said 236lbs 17% fat. Its the ones with the metal grips on it. I don't know how accurate.... I'm fully clothed with shoes right now which is why I'm now 236. I'm going to start cardio on an empty stomach 6 days a week, 45min a day and continue lifting 5 days a week. On the days I have class ill just wake up earlier. I will redisign the diet completely and notate everything including fats and carbs. Ill post it here for critique.

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## BrownGirl

Awesome on posting your reworked diet soon. Oh yeah, those hand held ones are usually not accurate at all. Calipers are better...

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## --->>405<<---

> Just did my body fat again at work and it said 236lbs 17% fat. Its the ones with the metal grips on it. I don't know how accurate.... I'm fully clothed with shoes right now which is why I'm now 236. I'm going to start cardio on an empty stomach 6 days a week, 45min a day and continue lifting 5 days a week. On the days I have class ill just wake up earlier. I will redisign the diet completely and notate everything including fats and carbs. Ill post it here for critique.


ok good idea  :Smilie:  it sounds like u have a scale that uses bioimpedance to calculate ur bf%.. personally id go with a 7 or 9 site caliper test .. or u can go to a doc office that has a bod pod and pay like 35bucks (which is the most accurate).. bf% is crucial to accurately determine BMR and TDEE and then macro splits...

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## Back In Black

Mate, if you can, do 2 things.

1. Post your cycle in the Steroids Q&A section and say it is a cutting cycle (which hopefully it now is)

2. Post a pic of your upper body, at least, here.

19% and 4500cals min is gonna make you fatter. Don't worry mate, we'll help you look good!

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## billgates

Ok still currently building the diet. As I am though I had a couple of questions about certain ingredients. I was told always to mix protein with fat free milk in order to slow down digestion and give the body more opportunity to utilize the protein. Also I was told that right when you finish working out you need to have something sugary like Gatorade in order to replenish your lost sugars.

Also I was told that I need to double the Carb intake of my protein for PWO and that I should split the carbs into simple and complex. Thats why I chose oatmeal and Gatorade.

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## tall76

Welcome Bill- first off u need to choose what u want to do. It makes no sense to "eat big" to put on mass and then start doing tons of cardio. You need to cut or bulk- like i have said b4, If you chase 2 rabbits at the same time they both will get away. In an excess of calories, our body will build lean mass and store fat as well. In a deficit of cals, our body will burn bodyfat and we try to not burn too much lean mass. If you have not been training really consistantly and hard for a few years which It doesn't sound like u have been- it is possible to cut fat and gain strength and size at the same time. It has to do with our neuromuscular system and how efficient yours currently is. With ur BF being high u need to cut it down- do u have any current pics

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## billgates

Here is my revised diet. As you can see I still have room to grow a bit everywhere except fat.



Targets:

2500 calories 
350g protein
150g carbs
55g fats

[2500/ 350 /150 /55]
Cals tein crbs fat


Wake up (7:30)


Gym - Cardio (7:45)


MORNING SHAKE/BREAKFAST - protein/carb (8:30)

[280/52/6/4] protein scoop x2
[145/6/25/2] oatmeal - 1 cup 



BREAKFAST - protein/fat (09:30)

[303/20/3/22] eggs - scrambled x3
fish oil tab x2



MID SHAKE - protein/fat (12:30)

[280/52/6/4] protein scoop x2 





LUNCH - protein/fat (2:30)

[108/24/0/2] tilapia - 4oz
[203/31/8/4] cottage cheese - 1 cup
fish oil tab x2



FILLER PROTEIN SNACK (5:00)

[200/48/0/1] albacore tuna - 1 can (6.5oz)


DINNER/PRE WORKOUT - protein/carb (8:00)

[246/46/0/6] chicken breast
[160/4/34/1] brown rice - 1 cup
[31/1/7/0] bell pepper




PWO SHAKE - protein/carb (10:00)

[145/6/25/2] oatmeal - 1 cup
[280/52/6/4] protein scoop x2


Calories= 2381
Protein = 342g
Carbs = 120g
Fat = 52g

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## --->>405<<---

Numbers are alot better  :Smilie:  need a little work.. Im on phone which makes it harder on me .. Looks like ur having several shakes.. I suggest u change all of them (except PWO) if possible to real food.. 

Gimme a few and ill turn on laptop ...

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## --->>405<<---

> Here is my revised diet. As you can see I still have room to grow a bit everywhere except fat.
> 
> 
> 
> Targets:
> 
> 2500 calories 
> 350g protein
> 150g carbs
> ...



diet looks *ALOT BETTER*  :Smilie:

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## --->>405<<---

> Yes those numbers are accurate. I did 980mg/wk test on my last cycle so used it again. And I researched 100mg/EOD for the tren .
> 
> I can lower the test to .5ml/shot and that will be 700mg/wk and lower the tren to .75ml/shot which will net me new totals of:
> 
> 
> 700mg/wk test
> 262mg/wk tren
> 
> 
> Will this still be affective? I'm already semi concerned this stuff is under dosed because its home brew. I don't get *night sweats, never had a cough on injection, and my urine hasn't changed colors.*




i dont think id want any of those.. if i understand correctly night sweats are a symptom of elevated E2.. cough after injection is cuz u injected into a vein or blood vessel..the urine changing colors thing doesnt sound good either  :Smilie:  if i were u id start a thread in the AAS Q & A forum.. 700mg test is still a high dose..esp with 19%bf... IMO..

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## billgates

> diet looks *ALOT BETTER*


I wish I could do more than just thank you for your help. Do you have a PayPal where I could send you a few bucks? Lol This really means a lot to me. You have no idea what a relief it is to be talking to someone educated on this matter. Talking to a meat head at the gym about things that could potentially damage my body was my first mistake. Oh well I'm getting more educated on this stuff everyday thanks to people like you.





I will make the suggested edits to the diet and recalculate everything asap. My grandfathers funeral is in the AM so I may not be able to complete it until tomorrow afternoon.

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## --->>405<<---

> *I wish I could do more than just thank you for your help*. Do you have a PayPal where I could send you a few bucks? Lol This really means a lot to me. You have no idea what a relief it is to be talking to someone educated on this matter. Talking to a meat head at the gym about things that could potentially damage my body was my first mistake. Oh well I'm getting more educated on this stuff everyday thanks to people like you.
> 
> I will make the suggested edits to the diet and recalculate everything asap. My grandfathers funeral is in the AM so I may not be able to complete it until tomorrow afternoon.


Thx is good enuff  :Smilie:  once u get it figd out for urself by experience u can pass on the knowledge to others in ur shoes  :Smilie:  all about helping people .. Cuz weve all been helped and continue to get help  :Smilie:

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## billgates

> Thx is good enuff  once u get it figd out for urself by experience u can pass on the knowledge to others in ur shoes  all about helping people .. Cuz weve all been helped and continue to get help


Ill have the updated diet asap. Just went to the store and bought everything I was missing. They only had whey and I couldnt find bcaas so have to look for those tomorrow.

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## Back In Black

If your PWO shake truly is your last meal just have 1 scoop whey and add a slower digesting protein. As 405 suggests, move some cottage cheese to this meal or get a protein blend that contains casein too.

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## billgates

> If your PWO shake truly is your last meal just have 1 scoop whey and add a slower digesting protein. As 405 suggests, move some cottage cheese to this meal or get a protein blend that contains casein too.


Ill probably just move the cottage cheese to this meal rather than casein because the cottage cheese is so easy to get a hold of. Thank you. Will be reflected in the updated diet.

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## JohnnyVegas

> Yes those numbers are accurate. I did 980mg/wk test on my last cycle so used it again. And I researched 100mg/EOD for the tren .
> 
> I can lower the test to .5ml/shot and that will be 700mg/wk and lower the tren to .75ml/shot which will net me new totals of:
> 
> 
> 700mg/wk test
> 262mg/wk tren
> 
> 
> Will this still be affective? I'm already semi concerned this stuff is under dosed because its home brew. I don't get night sweats, never had a cough on injection, and my urine hasn't changed colors.


I had no idea what your history was, so I was just asking. So, is this your second cycle, or have you done several? I just want to caution you about taking a gram a week if you aren't at the point where you need that much. Your tren dose didn't seem high, just the test...but that would be completely dependent on your history. If you are worried (and I am not saying you should be) you can always post your history and cycle in the Q&A section and get some feedback from others more knowledgable than I am.

Regarding the sides: I have never had the cough and have never had my urine change colors. I have had night sweats, but not with a low dose like 262mg/wk.

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## JohnnyVegas

> [/B]
> 
> i dont think id want any of those.. if i understand correctly night sweats are a symptom of elevated E2.. cough after injection is cuz u injected into a vein or blood vessel..the urine changing colors thing doesnt sound good either  if i were u id start a thread in the AAS Q & A forum.. 700mg test is still a high dose..esp with 19%bf... IMO..


The night sweats and cough are Tren specific things, although some guys get the sweats from Test as well. Even when E2 is under control. I HAVE had the cough that comes from getting gear in the blood, and it is horrible.

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## billgates

> I had no idea what your history was, so I was just asking. So, is this your second cycle, or have you done several? I just want to caution you about taking a gram a week if you aren't at the point where you need that much. Your tren dose didn't seem high, just the test...but that would be completely dependent on your history. If you are worried (and I am not saying you should be) you can always post your history and cycle in the Q&A section and get some feedback from others more knowledgable than I am.
> 
> Regarding the sides: I have never had the cough and have never had my urine change colors. I have had night sweats, but not with a low dose like 262mg/wk.




Third cycle. First was 500mg/wk Test only. Second was 980mg/wk Test only. So this is why I ran this much this time. I can easily adjust my dosage to .6ml which would be 840mg/wk or even .5ml which would be 700mg/wk.



When I ran my last cycle at 980 a week, I did it for 16 weeks. I never had even the slightest shred of a thought of gyno. I just wanted to point that out. I am aware that it can flare up at any time on any cycle without any notice. Just wanted to mention that I am not prone so far.

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## JohnnyVegas

Make sure you watch for more than just gyno. Keep an eye on your blood pressure and blood levels. The other problem is recovery becomes harder as dose goes up and duration stretches out. That is one reason to grow into your dose and not go higher than needed. Do I sound like your grandmother yet?  :Smilie:

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## billgates

Ok here is the updated diet. I am trying to stick to the 6-7 small meals a day with protein/fat or protein/carb model. Also I don't have a simple Carb in my PWO and am wondering if something like Gatorade should be added back in. Thanks for all the help! Critique further if necessary:

Targets:

2500 calories 
350g protein 
150g carbs 
55g fats

[2500/ 350 /150 /55] 
Cals tein crbs fat



WAKE UP (7:30)
10g BCAA


GYM - Cardio (7:45) 


MORNING SHAKE - protein/carb (8:30)

[280/52/6/4] protein scoop x2 
[72/3/12/1] oatmeal - 1/2 cup


BREAKFAST - protein/fat (09:30)

[169/21/2/7] eggs - 4 egg whites and 1 whole egg 
[14/2/2/0] spinach - 2 cups
fish oil tab x2


MID DAY MEAL - protein/fat (12:30)

[231/19/2/16] eggs - x3 boiled 
[18/2/4/0] Mixed green salad - 2 cups
[14/0/1/0] Italian salad dressin - fat free - 2 tbsp
[140/26/3/2] protein scoop x1 


LUNCH - protein/fat (2:30)

[108/24/0/2] tilapia - 4oz 
[36/13/4/2] fresh cooked asparagus - 6 spears
fish oil tab x2


FILLER MEAL - protein/carb (5:00)

[200/48/0/1] light tuna - 1 can (6.5oz) 
[160/4/34/1] brown rice - 1 cup


DINNER/PRE WORKOUT - protein/carb (8:00)

[246/46/0/6] chicken breast 
[160/4/34/1] brown rice - 1 cup 
[31/1/7/0] bell pepper


PWO SHAKE - protein /carb (10:00)

[72/3/12/1] oatmeal - 1/2 cup 
[140/26/3/2] protein scoop x1 
[203/31/8/4] cottage cheese - 1 cup


Totals:

Calories= 2294 
Protein = 325g 
Carbs = 134g 
Fat = 50g

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## billgates

I also made the following changes to my cycle. As you can see I switched the Aromasin to EOD rather than ED and lowered the test down a tad.

Cycle :

1-10 240mg Test400 EOD
1-8 100mg Tren EOD
3-14 12.5mg Aromasin EOD
14-16 6.25mg Aromasin EOD


PCT 

12-16 
Clomid 50/25/25/25 
Nolva 40/20/20/20

HCG /HMG (not here yet, still researching dosage) REALLY NEED HELP HERE. I have HMG but don't know how to use it and may switch to HCG because I can't find info on HMG. I already started another post.

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## billgates

Post title updated.

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## --->>405<<---

LOOKN pretty good to me there bill  :Smilie:  only main thing that stands out and it may be negligible is the 3 whole eggs in the 12:30 meal.. looks like ur getting 16g fat mostly from the yolk.. just an idea but what if u hard boiled the egg and only included the white in ur salad and maybe threw some nuts in it instead of the yolks to get ur fat back up there? dont know bout u but i like nuts in my salad... plus thats 21 egg yolks a week.. fair amt of cholesterol... u could really offset that by eliminating the bad cholesterol and adding good fat from a healthy nut  :Smilie: 

i would suggest *NOT* adding simple carb into PWO.. u dont wanna spike ur insulin .. i know some think its ok but from what ive read *COMPLEX CARBS PWO* are the way to go  :Smilie: 

and good job with ur diet dude! now u just wanna keep an eye on ur bf and LBM in case u need to do some tweaking here and there...

and lastly just my personal opinion but i like ur carbs a little lower than the 150g... curious as to other opinions on whether 135g carbs warrants a refeed day every 2 weeks.. i do one and i eat 100g carbs/day...something to look into.. 

upon further reflection check ur carbs for the oats ... is the 1/2 cup measurement cooked or dry?? if dry i think its incorrect.. if im not mistaken 1 cup dry oats has about 54g carbs...u want to measure ur oats *dry*...

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## Back In Black

I see little point in having your morning shake and breakfast as 2 seperate meals. Combine them with just 1 scoop of protein. Following my morning fasted cardio I get home and have 1 scoop whey iso, oats, 1 whole egg and several egg whites and a small piece of fruit. Approx 40g each of carbs and pro and 10g fat. You can up your protein to 50g if you like.

I'd get 40g carbs in your PWO shake too.

I think you are overdoing the protein at 325g don't be afraid to drop it a little. I wouldn't have an issue with your carbs going up to 160g and pro down to 300g max. Fat is good, max of 50g but as suggested you could drop a yolk or 2!

Recheck your oats macro's as 405 suggests and update accordingly if necessary.

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## billgates

> LOOKN pretty good to me there bill  only main thing that stands out and it may be negligible is the 3 whole eggs in the 12:30 meal.. looks like ur getting 16g fat mostly from the yolk.. just an idea but what if u hard boiled the egg and only included the white in ur salad and maybe threw some nuts in it instead of the yolks to get ur fat back up there? dont know bout u but i like nuts in my salad... plus thats 21 egg yolks a week.. fair amt of cholesterol... u could really offset that by eliminating the bad cholesterol and adding good fat from a healthy nut 
> 
> i would suggest *NOT* adding simple carb into PWO.. u dont wanna spike ur insulin .. i know some think its ok but from what ive read *COMPLEX CARBS PWO* are the way to go 
> and good job with ur diet dude! now u just wanna keep an eye on ur bf and LBM in case u need to do some tweaking here and there...
> 
> and lastly just my personal opinion but i like ur carbs a little lower than the 150g... curious as to other opinions on whether 135g carbs warrants a refeed day every 2 weeks.. i do one and i eat 100g carbs/day...something to look into.. 
> 
> upon further reflection check ur carbs for the oats ... is the 1/2 cup measurement cooked or dry?? if dry i think its incorrect.. if im not mistaken 1 cup dry oats has about 54g carbs...u want to measure ur oats *dry*...



Ok I know you have mentioned it more than one time and I keep forgetting to comment on it. I always use my oats dry and blend them into my shakes.

My calculations were wrong though, you are right! I was getting the numbers from COOKED oatmeal. I will be updating with accurate numbers in just a minute.

Also per your advice I will use just the egg white in my salad and use about a 1/2 cup of chopped almonds or sunflower seeds in the salad as well. Ill add that to the diet and repost in the next 15 minutes with all the numbers recalculated.

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## billgates

> I see little point in having your morning shake and breakfast as 2 seperate meals. Combine them with just 1 scoop of protein. Following my morning fasted cardio I get home and have 1 scoop whey iso, oats, 1 whole egg and several egg whites and a small piece of fruit. Approx 40g each of carbs and pro and 10g fat. You can up your protein to 50g if you like.
> I'd get 40g carbs in your PWO shake too.
> 
> I think you are overdoing the protein at 325g don't be afraid to drop it a little. I wouldn't have an issue with your carbs going up to 160g and pro down to 300g max. Fat is good, max of 50g but as suggested you could drop a yolk or 2!
> 
> Recheck your oats macro's as 405 suggests and update accordingly if necessary.



I separate the two meals like that because I can't consume that much protein in one sitting and the way my work and school schedule is, I have to do it like that. I want to break up the protein intake as much as possible in the morning. I know its not perfect but it should work.

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## billgates

Reworked. The accurate numbers on the oats really threw my carbs off. Also I can not afford to add in the almonds to the salad anymore because I am getting too high on all my numbers. Here is everything reworked though:



Targets:

2500 calories 
350g protein 
150g carbs 
55g fats

[2500/ 350 /150 /55] 
Cals tein crbs fat



WAKE UP (7:30)
10g BCAA


GYM - Cardio (7:45) 


MORNING SHAKE - protein/carb (8:30)

[280/52/6/4] protein scoop x2 
[303/13/52/5] oatmeal - 1/2 cup


BREAKFAST - protein/fat (09:30)

[169/21/2/0] eggs - 4 egg whites and 1 whole egg 
[14/2/2/0] spinach - 2 cups
fish oil tab x2


MID DAY MEAL - protein/fat (12:30)

[51/11/1/16] egg whites - x3 boiled 
[18/2/4/0] Mixed green salad - 2 cups
[14/0/1/0] Italian salad dressin - fat free - 2 tbsp
[140/26/3/2] protein scoop x1 


LUNCH - protein/fat (2:30)

[108/24/0/2] tilapia - 4oz 
[36/13/4/2] fresh cooked asparagus - 6 spears
fish oil tab x2


FILLER MEAL - protein/carb (5:00)

[200/48/0/1] light tuna - 1 can (6.5oz) 
[160/4/34/1] brown rice - 1 cup

DINNER/PRE WORKOUT - protein/carb (8:00)

[246/46/0/6] chicken breast 
[160/4/34/1] brown rice - 1 cup 
[31/1/7/0] bell pepper - whole


PWO SHAKE - protein /carb (10:00)

[303/13/52/5] oatmeal - 1/2 cup 
[140/26/3/2] protein scoop x1 
[203/31/8/4] cottage cheese - 1 cup


Totals:

Calories= 2576 
Protein = 337g 
Carbs = 213g 
Fat = 51g

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## billgates

Please delete

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## --->>405<<---

:Smilie:  bill i think u went the other way with ur carbs on the oats  :Smilie:  i think the number ur lookn for is 1/2C oats 26g carbs.. 

That adjustment should put u around 160g carbs i think  :Smilie:  and prob reduce cals by about 200...  :Smilie:

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## billgates

> bill i think u went the other way with ur carbs on the oats  i think the number ur lookn for is 1/2C oats 26g carbs.. 
> 
> That adjustment should put u around 160g carbs i think  and prob reduce cals by about 200...



Check it out. This is where I got all my numbers:

http://fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/usda/oats

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## --->>405<<---

Maybe were talkn bout 2 difft things.. That led me to oats.. Im talkn bout oatmeal.. I think they r difft cuz when i typed oatmeal into the search bar i got:
1 cup dry 290cal/50.73g carbs

When i say oats i mean oatmeal.. Not actual oats which according to that has like 600cals and 100g carbs..

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## billgates

Sorry for all of the confusion over something stupid. Here is everything fixed. Man this is crazy, everyone has been telling me to take in like 4500 calories and 500g of protein while on any cycle. You're sure this will be enough calories?  :Smilie: 


Targets:

2500 calories 
350g protein 
150g carbs 
55g fats

[2500/ 350 /150 /55] 
Cals tein crbs fat



WAKE UP (7:30)
10g BCAA


GYM - Cardio (7:45) 


MORNING SHAKE - protein/carb (8:30)

[280/52/6/4] protein scoop x2 
[150/5/27/3] oatmeal - 1/2 cup


BREAKFAST - protein/fat (09:30)

[169/21/2/0] eggs - 4 egg whites and 1 whole egg 
[14/2/2/0] spinach - 2 cups
fish oil tab x2


MID DAY MEAL - protein/fat (12:30)

[51/11/1/16] egg whites - x3 boiled 
[18/2/4/0] Mixed green salad - 2 cups
[14/0/1/0] Italian salad dressin - fat free - 2 tbsp
[140/26/3/2] protein scoop x1 


LUNCH - protein/fat (2:30)

[108/24/0/2] tilapia - 4oz 
[36/13/4/2] fresh cooked asparagus - 6 spears
fish oil tab x2


FILLER MEAL - protein/carb (5:00)

[200/48/0/1] light tuna - 1 can (6.5oz) 
[160/4/34/1] brown rice - 1 cup

DINNER/PRE WORKOUT - protein/carb (8:00)

[246/46/0/6] chicken breast 
[160/4/34/1] brown rice - 1 cup 
[31/1/7/0] bell 


PWO SHAKE - protein /carb (10:00)

[150/5/27/3] oatmeal - 1/2 cup 
[140/26/3/2] protein scoop x1 
[203/31/8/4] cottage cheese - 1 cup


Totals:

Calories= 2270 
Protein = 321g 
Carbs = 163g 
Fat = 47g

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## --->>405<<---

My recommendation to u was to wait to cycle once u got ur bf% down to 12%...i dont know how long uve been on but its still wat i think.. Basically u r on a cut.. With a cut u eat in caloric deficit.. Based on the bodyfat u gave me we figd ur tdee and created that deficit... Wat u have to do now is stick to that diet and monitor ur lbm and bf%, do ur wkouts and chek ur bf weekly.. If bf is dropping and lbm is stayn the same or going up id say u were doing well.. How do u think ur body is gonna shed fat if it is taking in more calories than it needs??? Im not an experienced cycler of roids but my guess is ur not gonna get the gains on it and lose the fat at the same time... U may be disappointed in ur cycle results from a "gains" standpoint.. And i have no idea what kinda probs "if any" u may incur due to ur high bf% .. Like i said u may wanna start a thread in the aas forum with ur stats and cycle doses and compounds and see what the experts over there say.. May save u some money and wasted juice as well as uncomfortable sides.. Itd be worth 5 mins  :Smilie:  what id do... 

As far as ur diet i believe this is a good cutting diet .. U may or may not have to reduce ur carbs and add protein depending how ur body responds... But if u put this diet side by side with ur original one it should be obvious to u which one is gonna be better for shedding bf..  :Smilie:

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## billgates

Regardless of whether I chose to stay on or get off or whatever, what ive learned is most important.I may chose to stay on and increase the calories in every meal. I may get off tomorrow if I can get a hold of some HCG . 

The point is that I've learned a lot just from building this simple diet. I think the "rules" of this diet should apply to any diet. I've learned a lot. Thanks again.

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## --->>405<<---

Hey thats great man! U see the benefits of making the diet up urself aNd posting it and having it critiqued and then reposting a revised version until u get to an acceptable starting point?  :Smilie:  u learn by doing it which is way more important than just having someone say "bill eat this"  :Wink: 

As far as ur cycle it is ur business what u do.. I do stick to my suggestion of posting it in the AAS Q AND A Forum to get some experienced advice .. The good part of it if u stop u will still have it a few months from now to use once ur leaner  :Smilie:  good luck and if/when u run into probs or have questions be sure to post them here  :Smilie:

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## billgates

> Hey thats great man! U see the benefits of making the diet up urself aNd posting it and having it critiqued and then reposting a revised version until u get to an acceptable starting point?  u learn by doing it which is way more important than just having someone say "bill eat this" 
> 
> As far as ur cycle it is ur business what u do.. I do stick to my suggestion of posting it in the AAS Q AND A Forum to get some experienced advice .. The good part of it if u stop u will still have it a few months from now to use once ur leaner  good luck and if/when u run into probs or have questions be sure to post them here



Sounds good man, thanks again for the knowledge. My girlfriend has been reading all for this as she is very interested in fitness/health as well. She was wondering if some of the same principles apply to women?

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## --->>405<<---

Out of my territory there buddy  :Smilie:  alot more involved with women.. Not even gonna try  :Smilie:  remember .. If shes not happy ur not happy!!  :Wink:  tell her to start her own thread .. GBrice can help her im sure as well as SteM and the ladies on the forum..  :Smilie:  i do think yall both doing it together could be good for each other  :Smilie:

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## billgates

> Out of my territory there buddy  alot more involved with women.. Not even gonna try  remember .. If shes not happy ur not happy!!  tell her to start her own thread .. GBrice can help her im sure as well as SteM and the ladies on the forum..  i do think yall both doing it together could be good for each other



Will do!

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