# FITNESS and NUTRITION FORUM > INJURIES, REHAB & SPA >  Lose the back pain.com (review)

## sonar1234

www.losethebackpain.com

Many here know that i have been plagued with back pain for nearly 4 years now.

I have gone to many so called professionnal from chiro, osteo, physio, massage therapy, acuponcture and more without any success.

I have even gone to a doctor that gave me some anti-inflamatory drugs.

All of theses professional treated the symptoms but never took the time to check in what the cause would be, its not in there benefits to do so either cause you are a walking bank of money for most of theses greedy assholes  :1hifu:  

I have decided to buy this dvd off the internet cause it offered some good approach to back pain finally, i do not have sciatica but i have upper and lower back pain.

I went back to the gym and starting training with light weights, then upped the charges imagining that training and cardio woud eventually get rid of my pain, fact of the matter is it got worst.

Most back pain that remain are causes by muscles imbalance, i will take my case for exemple.

I injured myself doing squats and deadlifts. Got worst going to a chiro with all that cracking and the guy did not know what he was doing either. Finally got my pelvic re-ajusted a year and a half after my injury so can you imagine all the muscle weakness that add installed itself in my body.

After that i went on a spree to finally clear the remaining muscle pain that was present, physio gave me dumb massages and come back later, address incorrect posture issues with dumb exercices and even more... i dont want to get into this too long and it will only pull out more frustration.

My case is that my pelvic is to far back, the cause is strong quads, strong chest and shoulders but very weak hamstrings, weak lower abs and weak upper back muscles.

The program tought me on how to evaluate myself looking in a mirror, hey best evaluation i add ever LOL, you also take 4 pictures of you one front on back and on both sides to be able to see where are the weakness.

I have to strech my quads with some very good exercices, strech my chest has well, strenghten my lower abs, my hamstrings and upper back.

So far so good the program looks very good it comes with a dvd explaining how to self evaluate yourself, a book that shows you what exercices to do for your cause.

You even get a free one month money back garantie if it does not work.

Anyways i am not doing a publicity for theses guys i am just gonna review this progam week by week and see if it can cure my back pain for ever.

I will only be doing the exercices that i am suppost to do, i will not train my chest quads nor delts, and that was my mistake, i was training my whole body so the strong muscles get stronger and are still stronger then the weak ones.

Also most people are prone to train quads a lot more the hamstrings has well.

If this program works i will be giving more info on everything and people will stop wasting there money going to so called professionnal and never healing and living life to its fullest.

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## Doc.Sust

"If this program works i will be giving more info on everything and people will stop wasting there money going to so called professionnal and never healing and living life to its fullest."
yes i have a problem with such a damn dumb statement. do you actually think that all back pain can be cured fom a dvd of stretches you found online?!?!?give me a fckn break, listen there are many reasons and many diagnosis for back pain, and yes this may help you , but if you think this is a "cure all miracle" for all lowback pain" you are ignorant!! some one gets hit by a bus and has compression fractues in there cevical spine along with herniated discs and impinged nerve roots,you think your little book of stretches is going to fix this!?!?!? bullshit!! don't come here and try to bash medical profesionals as greedy a$$holes pal, not in my house!!! if your book worked so well , then there would be no back pain in the entire world and no need for any doctor, but as you can see this isn't so. so before you start telling people they shouldn't see a medical professional when they have low back pain, and a person ends up listening to you , and they dont see a doctor and then later have an abdominal aortic anneyurism rupture because they listened to your uneducated, bias, dumb ass oppininon, then you can have that on your concious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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## sonar1234

Good i have a problem with dumb chiros, and i have went in 4 years to 2 chiros that made me worst, i got x rays, test and all.

BTW the program is working fine, even better then a simple 5 minute dumb manipulation that leave you pain free for 2 days then the pain sets back.

Chiros have a formation in marketing to make money, easy answers and more.

Now i know you are a chiro and unless your metod differs from any other you are in the same boat.

Unless you work with posture reajustement, target muscle imbalance, deep tissu massage and more it worstless.

Search the net everybody has bad experiences with chiros, the sad thing is that they keep you draging on and on and on i know people that have gone to chiros for 2 years none stop they still have pain.

Osteopath are the ones that people should go see, chiros got my pelvic so out of place the pain was worst, then the same idiot told me to come see him twice a week, when i went to the osteopath he told me do you know HOM MUCH PEOPLE WHO WENT TO A CHIROS I UNSCREW EACH DAY.

The program says to seek special advice, they rule out chiropratic cause to many people got nothing out of it.

I will still keep updates on this program its been 3 days now and i can say i feel a lot better.

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## sonar1234

I will bash chiro and professonals even in your basement, if you where professional you would not swear and act like one.

Physio, massage and more are not done to correct back pain and do not treat the symptoms they treat the pain, tell you that lower back pain is caused by weak lower abs and give you a bunch of useless streching crap.

In Canada the chiros have a petition going on cause medical doctors tell them that there diagnostic are worstless and that most people end up being worst.

Now get that in your conscience.

Now please dont talk to me anymore, i have a strong haterad against chiro, guess that all the horror stories i eard over the years plus my personal experience of a moron that is certified that worsten my case even more and this idiot still practice chiro and makes people even worst, i know a girls husband that has neck problem that got even worst after seeing that idiot.........

The world would be better off without chiros.
www.losethebackpain.com so far so good, back pain that keeps coming back is mostly related to posture and muscles imbalances that can be corrected by streching the stronger muscles and strengtening the weak one, this makes a lot more sense then going 1-2 times a week to some idiot for a dumb spin manipulation, and signing a life contract.

Hey i didnt say that the program did and he is right.

There si so much back pain cause poor people dont know where to turn to when they get the pain.

More update on this program next week.

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## Doc.Sust

you are a moron hands down, and yes i do postural annalysis and deep tissue masage, i specialize in trauma and car accidents, and let me just tell you, just from the way you speak, you know nothing,uneducated and a jerkoff

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## Doc.Sust

keep mouthing off to me pal and watch what happens... you won't be posting anything if you keep it up

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## Doc.Sust

you are giving bad advice just because you had an experience with one doctor doesn't make you a medical professional, and nobody should order some program online and self diagnose the self. what you are telling people to do is moronic and many people can get hurt even worse by listening to you bias hatred. you show me literature that says a manipulation doesn't help more than a self help home online product, and i will give you credit. also chiro's and osteopath do the same manipulations, so show how little you know.

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## sonar1234

I will now add you to my ignore list, you are the moron and a chiro on top of all so you deserve the pie sir.

I am sure that my personal experiences will reflect a lot of people here that have been ongoing to such jerk has youself, would be quit funny to see what advise you give for posture and correction.

I have strong quads, weak hamstrings and been told to train my quads by specialist moron like you.

Train my lower back while the problem is not part from there.

I am a moron for not beleiving in such frauds and assholes like yourself putting what you eat on the table each night, how can you sleep well at night when you fraud so many good people.

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## sonar1234

BTW i know enought cause i have seen 5 different ostopaths, 2 accuponcutre, 2 chiros the worst frauds of them all sorry, 5 massage therapiste, 3 physio therapist.

And none of them could pin point my pain, kept giving me appointements each week til i got tired.

I add x rays for my spin, total evaluation, and the great book i bought tought me all that in less then 3 days i feel a lot less pain and strech the right muscles and strenghten the right ones.

Hey the last moron i went to see, a kinestologist told me to do some lungs, that i add weak hamstrings????? lunges work the quads has much has the hamstrings, he told me to do free weight body squats and that push ups where ok, my chest is strong my upper back is weak. Wow am i impressed.

Now i do some close pulley rows and a tone of chest streching that is correcting my upper back pain, i am streching my quads and doing some leg curls for my hamstrings and tragetting my lower abs with leg raises not full sit ups.

Smoke that up your pipe dude

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## sonar1234

And another thing i am not giving advise to anyone to do nothing here bro, has i have explained if you read my post carefully that this is my case, if someone has back pain i will tell them to go to there family doctor and he will rederect them to someone you can trust, take some x rays and more.

I am just a simple person that got really fed up about back pain and about all the so called specialist out there that will rip people of there money and give them the wrong directions.

I am willing give updates on my condition each week and with that program i got a 30 day money back garantee, if it works for me, then hell people can check out the website and judge for themselves, the program cost 60$ and thats the price of a treatment.

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## sonar1234

this is more suitable for chiros

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## Doc.Sust

and this makes
you an expert hard guy?? you are deuche bag. lunges do work hamstrings by the way. 
you have NO facts or proof of your claims. this is just an angry A$$HOLES uneducated oppinion soley based on bad experiences. so you bash chrio's kinesiologists,ostopaths, accupuncture docs,PT's and think you know better because you bought a book and dvd online than all these profesionals? get real!!!!!!and if you are so so smart why didn't you see an orthopedic like anyone with a brain would have if the problem didn't stop instead of going to 10 different practcioners?? keep it up pal, you are cruising for a bruising,

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## Doc.Sust

> this is more suitable for chiros


my friend, i smell a BAN coming real soon,  :Aabanhimlikeabitch:  better say your goodbyes, your time is almost up! you are barking up the wrong tree,don't screw with the big dog if you don't want to get bit!

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## Doc.Sust

the only dumb person i see here is you! you make biased claims based only on your limited intellect and poor judgement with no facts to back up your big fat mouth. i am warning you BACK OFF or your posting days are numbered Lash Larue!

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## Doc.Sust

fianlly got the point? good now keep your mouth closed.

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## 956Vette

easy killer. guys, dont make me close this thread

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## OldPLer

> and this makes
> you an expert hard guy?? you are deuche bag. lunges do work hamstrings by the way. 
> you have NO facts or proof of your claims. this is just an angry A$$HOLES uneducated oppinion soley based on bad experiences. so you bash chrio's kinesiologists,ostopaths, accupuncture docs,PT's and think you know better because you bought a book and dvd online than all these profesionals? get real!!!!!!and if you are so so smart why didn't you see an orthopedic like anyone with a brain would have if the problem didn't stop instead of going to 10 different practcioners?? keep it up pal, you are cruising for a bruising,


WOW Doc, never seen you so fired up, I got your back.

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## 956Vette

gotta say i love doc's passion  :Wink:

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## Mealticket

How bout posting up the pics you took?

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## juicinator567

and just so oyu know i am plagued with back pain too, i did the lose the back pain.com dvd thing and it did not ****in work at all. if your pain has been on for four years, this video of stretches wont cure it.

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## sonar1234

Sorry guys but the professionnals wont cure you either.

Has i said i will keep on doing it for at least a month and see.

I am not saying it will fix me or nothing, so far so good.

I just cant understand why so called professional cannot cure people and make them worst thats all.

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## sonar1234

juicinator567 what is your story about back pain how did you get it?

What professional help did you seek?

I add x rays and all that is spin and bone related is fine so makes a lot of sense that its muscle imbalance.

I was still training my quads and chest and the pain kept coming back, now that i am stretching them and training my hamstrings and back deltoids and lower abs i feel a bit better.

I will not lie i still have pain but that cannot be solve within 3 days.

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## sonar1234

The pics i took where not taken off a digital camera but a simple cam, i took 4 pictures has requested per the dvd.

front, back, left and right side. There i could notice that my head is forward way to much and that my pelvic is tilt backward which means that my quads chest and front deltoids are to strong compared to my hams, lower abs and upper back muscles that are weak. I have to admit that i never trained hams.

Since i started doing bootcamp and tae bo dvds i did plenty of free weight squats, which got my condition worst, following what the professional told me to do????????

Tell you what guys if this works for me i will post the program for free and the people with lower back pain can try it.

Its a 60$ value here.

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## sonar1234

For that doc sus or something, someone that is so defensive means that they do not have confidence i what they do. Sorry but this just shows me yet again that chiropratic is worthless.

I am not an expert, in now way either i am just your average joe that tried everything has of yet and chiros 2 of them got my worst then i was.

Has i said i went to all the pros for the back pain and always ended up paying money for worthless treatements but they never stopped giving me appointements even when they didnt know what i add.

The dvd is a smart approach to understanding your back pain, you still need to consult a professionnal for sure but its better to go seek someone that knows the muscular and can work with that.

Sad but i still havent found one good professional so i decided to try this dvd and try to cure myself.-

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## sonar1234

ANother thing in forgot to mention, posture, correct posture is very important either will standing and even worst while sitting.

Sadly the dvd does not cover this very important part of back pain.

I really like the other fact that the streching part has to be done from 3-5 times daily which is very good.

The muscular strenght part can be done each day once a day, i am currently doing it twice a day in the morning and at night.

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## Doc.Sust

> For that doc sus or something, someone that is so defensive means that they do not have confidence i what they do. Sorry but this just shows me yet again that chiropratic is worthless.
> 
> I am not an expert, in now way either i am just your average joe that tried everything has of yet and chiros 2 of them got my worst then i was.
> 
> Has i said i went to all the pros for the back pain and always ended up paying money for worthless treatements but they never stopped giving me appointements even when they didnt know what i add.
> 
> The dvd is a smart approach to understanding your back pain, you still need to consult a professionnal for sure but its better to go seek someone that knows the muscular and can work with that.
> 
> Sad but i still havent found one good professional so i decided to try this dvd and try to cure myself.-


i have alot more confidence in my skills then a $2 jip joint dvd, i am passionate because i i believe you say you know better than all medical profesionals, and i think you are gravely mistaken. i argue because i believe YOUR wrong and your advice can end up killing someone if they listen to you and don't see a health physician and it may end up being alot worse than a simple muscle strain. alll case are not like your specific case, they alll have different, not the same, and some are more serious then others. kidney problems, may also cause un-curable low back pain and is a hell of alot more serious then a sprain /strain. now if someone was so inclined to listen to you, they may put themselves in alot of danger. i DO NOT WANT TO SEE ANYONE BE NIEVE BY LISTENING TO FOOLISH ONE SIDED ,UNDOCUMENTED HORSE CRAP,and end up with a serious problem. this is why i will fight you tooth nail until the day i die!!!!! this isn't about you OR me its about PEOPLES SAFETY!!!! so put your ego aside. every case is unique, i help alot of people with pain every day and when i see something i cant help with or above me, i refer to an orthopedic, which you should have done if no one could get to the root of your problem.why didn't you? seems to me like common sense. its alot smarter than trying to self diagnoe yourself. you sit there like an authority on back pain and rehab and you have no credentials, no studies to back your ignorant comments, no rhyme or reason, just YOUR oppinion, which in my oppinion doesn't carry much weight. you bashed every medical professional on the planet, except for dentistry, and claim to know more than people who do this for a living. yes buddy we are all out to get you and steal your money, you are right sir!GIVE ME A BREAK! i appologize to the forum for going off like this, but i can't stand by and listen to such slander and unfactial nonsense. you attacked me as a person and my carrer, you have something to say to me, PM me andwill duke it out there poncho! all i want to say , for the last time , YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!  :Nutkick:

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## sonar1234

Dear Doc.Sust can you please let it go, this is going no where and i put you in my ignore list so i cannot see whatever you are posting.

I am no expert in back pain and just trying the dvd program which works fine for now.

Thanks

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## Doc.Sust

> Dear Doc.Sust can you please let it go, this is going no where and i put you in my ignore list so i cannot see whatever you are posting.
> 
> I am no expert in back pain and just trying the dvd program which works fine for now.
> 
> Thanks


glad to hear, and since i am on your ignore list then you won't see this, i am right and you are wrong. case closed! you admit to not being an expert in back pain, well then don't try to give advice on a subject you know nothing about and in the process try to imply that i don't know what i am talking about!

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## OldPLer

I am going to say one more thing, it was funny at first because anyone with any sense would realize that Sonar was so wrong. Doc has helped a lot of people here, he knows his stuff and anyone who has been on this forum knows that. I have a friend who had back problems, he kept blaming it on DLs, then moving furniture etc etc. Bottom line, he went to Chiro who sent him immediately to another Dr. who sent him to hospital. He is now in MD Anderson undergoing chemo for sarcoma. Back pain can not be ignored. He was tough guy who ignored things and we all thought it was just normal back soreness but it would not go away. End of my discussion on this.

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## Doc.Sust

> I am going to say one more thing, it was funny at first because anyone with any sense would realize that Sonar was so wrong. Doc has helped a lot of people here, he knows his stuff and anyone who has been on this forum knows that. I have a friend who had back problems, he kept blaming it on DLs, then moving furniture etc etc. Bottom line, he went to Chiro who sent him immediately to another Dr. who sent him to hospital. He is now in MD Anderson undergoing chemo for sarcoma. Back pain can not be ignored. He was tough guy who ignored things and we all thought it was just normal back soreness but it would not go away. End of my discussion on this.


thank you oldPler, thank you so much!!! that is exactly my point!!!you hit the nail on the head. a true testimonial. an osteo sarcoma is a malignant bone tumor that can KILL a person if not treated. yet another example of why you do not self diagnose. i am sure the chiro saw this on the x-ray and immediately refered him to an orthopedic. proof is in the pudding

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## Mealticket

:Aapostpics:  

Seriously...you can tell all that rom a picture......I wanna see!

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## sonar1234

> Seriously...you can tell all that rom a picture......I wanna see!


I am having a hard time understanding why you want to see pictures? 

The point of this tread is simply to start a review on a program that i have ordered from the internet which attacks back pain in a different angle that i have never really eard off before.

My pelvic is tilted, my head is forward in front. What is the point of the pictures? seriously?

If people are not interested in this approach then its ok i will just stop posting the progess i make right away and forget it.

I do beleive that people might have gone true what i have gone true paying money without results, living each day with pain, hoping that some day getting back to a normal life...........

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## sonar1234

OldPLer i add very bad experiences with chiros what can i say. 

You say that Muscles imbalance cannot be a proper cause for back pain?

Any pain has to be investigated, has back pain, has my fathers cancer that he will surely die from within a month. Dont you think i am dumb enought to tell someone not go get professional advise, thing is its hard to find someone good, i know i been out there for 4 years going from one specialist to another.

Getting bullshit answer each time, telling me i have bad posture and to imagine a string going true my body, keep my shoulders straight, while sitting imagine that tummytuck touches my lower back, isnt that crap to your ears.

Work my lower back muscle, run, start doing your regular thing again??????????? got me worst.

One week your sacrum has moved the next ho its weird its ok now.

I am not saying that this dr sus or something is not good, i just add bad experiences with chiro and grown to not like them a lot.

If this dr sus would have terrible back pain and would have gone to see someone that would have made him worst, and you ear that this person is still practicing what would you think of that person.

Exactly you would not like there profession. 

Why in 4 years could i never find someone to cure my back pain someone that has studied pain.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ this is one big reason why.

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## sonar1234

Now this is going no where so i will leave Mr Sus give you advise and he might be that good, and i will keep on doing my training and hope that this time it will be the right thing.

I will stop bothering people about this and shut myself up for good, thats what you get for trying to help out people theses days

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## Doc.Sust

> Now this is going no where so i will leave Mr Sus give you advise and he might be that good, and i will keep on doing my training and hope that this time it will be the right thing.
> 
> I will stop bothering people about this and shut myself up for good, thats what you get for trying to help out people theses days


 if you didn't present yourself as "the all knowing god" of low back pain, and condemn every medical practiconer in the book( especialy mine that specializes in low back pain, )then maybe someone would have taken you seriously. instead you went on a rampage saying because you had bad experiences with multiple medical profesionals,and you bought a half hour dvd.that you were now an authority on how to treat all back pain. it how you present yourself.in my case i didn't handle this situation the best, and i again apologize to everyone here on the board for loseing my cool. but i couldn't let you rub my nose in mud and every other doctor or medical professional on this board. yes there are bad docs every where,and yes many cases are hard to diagnose, but it doesn't mean that we are all out to get you and steal your money like pirates. now i can account many many success stories of chiropractic,physio therapy,accupuncture , massage, osteopathic medicine,and kinesiology. your one example does not discredit the billions of success stories that these professions together have treated. if you were correct, than none of these professions would exist because people would have stoped going along time ago if all of these did not work. now i am done with this thread.

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## sonar1234

Ok then dr sust i will appolodize for going on my rampage if you only understand my pain for 4 years now.

You are totally right that someone with a buldging disk or herniate the program will do nothing and i am 100% with you here.

It is just behond me that i have been to so many specialist and still have the pain, i am not the type of person that will not listen to what a specialist tells me.

I have add x rays twice for my back and neck, i have add a filmed xray has well, and i just dont get it why the professional that i went too did not see my pelvic needed to be reajusted. It was like that for well over a year, til i went to a osteo and just by touch he saw that my pelvic needed to be reajusted, has soon has he did that the pain that was in my lower back in the spin went away, of course with time and very bad posture i needed to strenghten the muscles that where weak.

This is where i tried physio, and all the rest, hell someone even told me that i was eating too much sugar and was the cause of my pains and this same person gave me some orthics for my feet that did nothing?

Can you see my frustration now Dr sust, i do understand that i have been rude and more but this is 4 years of my life, i cannot run, i plan to get back into martial arts but i cant, hell i simply go for a hiking with my girlfriend and when the hike is a bit hard the next day i have pains like hell.

My condition is called : Forward tipped pelvic which is caused by and imbalance between hip flexor and glutes, quardiceps an hamstrings, lower back and lower abdomen.

Weak muscles are:
Hamstrings
Glutes
Lower abs

Tight muscles are:
hip flexor
quadriceps
lower back

I need to strech the lower back, hip flexor, quadriceps

I need to strengthen lower abs, glutes, hamstrings

the other condition mentionned is forward head and shoulders

I also have streches and strengh training for this.

You need to understand that my only goal is to finally eliminate back pain and i never said i was a god of lower back pain, and from all i have been told i am still confused has hell about this issue.

Only thing i can tell you is that this program seems to be working fine.

I went back to the gym this week, and have included close pulley rows, hammer back machine, leg curls and seated leg curls, reverse peckdeck.

And i do the streches 2 times a day and some of the streches like quads strech and chest strech up to 5 times a day.

I am crossing my fingers that this will work in the end.

Please understand once again that living with pain day in and day out, plus having the frustration of going from one professional to the other without results can really make people mad.

I really hope that this will explain a bit more what i am going true each day and have been for 4 years.

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## Mealticket

> Ok then dr sust i will appolodize for going on my rampage if you only understand my pain for 4 years now.
> 
> You are totally right that someone with a buldging disk or herniate the program will do nothing and i am 100% with you here.
> 
> It is just behond me that i have been to so many specialist and still have the pain, i am not the type of person that will not listen to what a specialist tells me.
> 
> I have add x rays twice for my back and neck, i have add a filmed xray has well, and i just dont get it why the professional that i went too did not see my pelvic needed to be reajusted. It was like that for well over a year, til i went to a osteo and just by touch he saw that my pelvic needed to be reajusted, has soon has he did that the pain that was in my lower back in the spin went away, of course with time and very bad posture i needed to strenghten the muscles that where weak.
> 
> This is where i tried physio, and all the rest, hell someone even told me that i was eating too much sugar and was the cause of my pains and this same person gave me some orthics for my feet that did nothing?
> ...



Weren't you going to put Doc S on your ignore list like........30 p osts ago!!!
 :0ttiwwop:

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## sonar1234

Merci à tous pour le bon support que j'ai reçu ici, je vous souhait tous une bonne journée, même à mon ami ticket de repas.

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## sonar1234

mealticket i really hope you never suffer back pain in your life. You must have some weird fantasy about me has well wanting to see my pictures so bad and in am in boxers has well.

I have been hard on the doc but the explained why.

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## KeyMastur

not all back pain is a cause of imbalanced muscles. sure it's a starter. for me, i have spondy - now i have to keep my mid-section well balances or i get out of whack and i'm down for a few weeks - which does me no good cause of my "job"

many people do think they can just go to a chiro and they'll be cured. wrong.

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## sonar1234

Thanks KeyMastur you are right on this one. You still have to get an evaluation, type of x ray and a posture evaluation.

This is why i am saying that the dvd program that i have order might not work for everyone and i give 100% reason to Dr sust saying so, will not work for a disk hernia or anything that is bone related.

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## liftergirl

> mealticket i really hope you never suffer back pain in your life. You must have some weird fantasy about me has well wanting to see my pictures so bad and in am in boxers has well.
> 
> I have been hard on the doc but the explained why.


Ok, all of this stuff about being able to "fix" backpain with the dvd and pics is ridiculous. I imagaine MT's reasoning was that if you had pics that were able to "prove" what you needed to fix....it would be helping to prove that your point was right. So, obviously you are wrong. 

Most intelligent people know that you need to train ALL muscle groups if you intended on not having pain due to improper training. And, since you are suposedly SO SMART with regard to EVERYTHING.... wouldnt you be able to figure out that stuff WITHOUT needing a DVD to tell you to take pictures of yourself??? Whatever. 
 
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with professionals, but just STOP! Doctors and other health professionals can only help a patient if that patient is actually compliant and does what is asked of them....and from what i've read from your comments....you think that you are more intelligent than any professional, so i'd be willing to bet that you completely ignored any and all advice from professionals....and then blamed those same professionals when you didnt get any better! 

I went to school for 4 years to learn medicine...and have a LOT of patients with back pain... it's a pretty common complaint. And, you, by far, take the cake on ignorant comments. If you want to continue to hurt yourself by buying a DVD to fix your backpain....go for it. But, please don't continue to give advice to people about something that you know so little about. It's not in the best interest of the board, and it's extremely disrespectful to all of us who know what we're talking about.

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## sonar1234

liftergirl i asure you that i have done everything the professional have asked of him, from stopping training completly for over 3 months, i did the exercices they gave me to do to the T, and even more.

Now please explain why a dvd that i buy i with complete streches and target exercice could not help me get better?

I am not hurting myself, i feel better after a week.

The last professional i saw was a very well educated, physio therapist, kinestologist and has also done training on posture, i add again a full diagnostic done to myself.

He told me that i could do tae bo and bootcamp, bodyweight squats and pushups, and puch and kick with the elastic bands.

Check my condition and you will see that i have, i was working the quads, chest and front shoulder which where already very strong, and almost not training my upper back, and hamstring has i should have, plus he gave me hamstring streches to do instead of quads straches and chest strech.

Once again i am not saying that the dvd will work for everyone, but for me it has given me hope.

I know that my back pain will not cure itself just like that and i have to work each day to make it better.

From everything i have been told up to date that my pain is in the lower back, that my feet are the cause, that i have something in my neck but they dont know what it is, and more and more, this dvd has made me self evaluate myself and build a program to fix my problem.

I have add x rays and more and there is no hernia, no degenerative disks, scolosis or more. My pain is posture muscle imbalance related, and its helping me right now.

I dont know maybe in a month or so its gonna end up being crap but for now its doing good.

The sad thing is that maybe there are good professionals out there but god damn it each one i have seen has turned me on the wrong path.

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## liftergirl

all i'm saying is that it's dangerous to just go to using a dvd to fix back pain. the things you found throughout all of those professional's visits did you WAY more good than you're giving them credit for. Granted, professionals cant fix all things. But, for hernias, disk disease, degenerative disease, tumors, nerve impingements, etc.... there are things that need to be done...and those things cant be helped by a DVD. I'm glad you're feeling better....but your situation is by far not the common problem seen by professionals in patients who come in complaining of back problems. ESPECIALLY with bb and people lifting a heavy amount of weight. So, for those of you out there who are having back pain, go to your health professional. Problems like bone tumors and nerve impingements and disk herniation needs to be diagnosed sooner rather than later....and a dvd isnt going to help that.

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## sonar1234

Its a total package, the dvd part is only to show you how you can evaluate yourself, either the condition be forward tilt pelvic, backward tilt pelvic, high hip, and of course forward head which gives pain in the upper back.

You get a full book with diet, tips, and the correction exercice between each type of problem.

It is cleary said on the dvd that its not a fix all problems but its also said that many people are discourage cause the professional go at it the wrong way.

To be honest its not that hard to self evalute yourself, just by looking at yourself in the mirror you can see your pelvic, your head position or you ask someone or take pictures.

Chiro no1 gave me 21 sessions stopped after 14 cause the pain was coming back after 2 days each time, got full body exam and x rays. Said to start regular activity after 3 weeks of treatments, this women add over 10 years of experience in chiropratic.

Chrio2 sport injury expert: gave me 10 treatments and worsten my pelvic condition, i felt pain after my treatement even worst, receive x rays and filmed x rays.

Massage Therapy 5 massages, made pain worst cause my pelvic needed to be reajusted. ( Granted i got the contact to go see the osteopath)

Osteopath, that was after a year or more or pain, reajusted my pelvic, told me i would have some muscles strenghtening to do, the guy moved back to France he was 65 years old best i ever saw.

Accuponcture 5 treatements did nothing

massage 5 treatements felt good at first but pain came back

physio 5 treatements add exam, women told me that my sacrum was moving the first week second week said it was ok and all that crap

osteopath 3 treatement, accuponcutre sport specialist: this guy was an idiot, he took my head in is hands for 20 minutes like he was a spiritual guide or something then shook it right left and said it was ok, he said that my lower back pain would treath itself and would go away after time.

physio 5 treatments: again well renouned place, again the guy told me to imagine a rop gave me pelvic exercise to do and told me to start training again, all the exercise did nothing

Change place again in physio 5 treatements, women would massage me on the left then right then put me on the electronic muscle stimulator for 12 minutes and i was done.

Naturopath, ostero massage therapist, this was the cherry on top, said i was eating to much sugar and gave me orthic that cost me 340$ that were not covered by my insurance, charged me 70$ for nutrition crap that i already new, and wanted to sell me some supplements, he should be in jail.

Last one i went too massage therapist and posture reajustement, 5 times, told me that my hamstrings are weak, but the i could bodyweight squat, and strech the buttock region and more worsthless exercise to do that did nothing.

I stayed out of the gym for a long time, did whatever then told me to do to the letter, and what amazes me is that this dvd book package is teaching me how to get better and strenghten the right muscles and stretch the right ones has well, and that no professional could tell me that ????????

It was so damn easy to self evaluate myself i could feel the tight muscles and actually feel the weak ones too.

Now my question is where do i go from here cause has you can see in my resume i went everywhere.

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## Mealticket

:0ttiwwop:   :0ttiwwop:  ooohhhhhhh...you get a book too?
Well that changes everyhting.............i understand now.  :0ttiwwop:

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## sonar1234

Mealticket why dont you buy the dvd and book and judge for yourself then, you gys been bashing this program from the start so my guess is we are one to one here since i havent been nice to the professionals.

That must take a lot of time putting all theses little smillies togheter too thanks for the tought.

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## Doc.Sust

> ooohhhhhhh...you get a book too?
> Well that changes everyhting.............i understand now.


hahahaha!


ok sonar, you and i are ok, i too am sorry we got off on the wrong foot. i have no idea what kind of chiro you went to but the first thing i do on all my patients with low back pain is a 2 second test to see if there pelvis has moved posterior inferior or anterior superior. hell i just did it 4 times on different patients this morning. now what you are talking about isn't a pelvic misalignment but more of a muscle imbalance that is causing complete posture changes. yes i studied this in school. the anterior abdominals and hip extensors work together to tilt the pelvis posterior. low back and hip flexor muscles work together to tilt the pelvis anteriorly. with posterior tillt or "sway back posture" hip flexors are weak , and hanstrings and lower backare strong, with anterior tilt or military posture the abs and hamstrings are weak and the low back and hip flexors are stong. this is common knowledege that anyone can find in a text book, does this mean that all low back pain if any is caused by this. NO, most humans go through there entire life with a muscle imbalance of some kind and never know the difference or feel any pain. these are normal posture problems that many have. if they are extreme yes either or may cause pain , but many times,not. is this what is causing your pain? possibly, i am not sure without examining you could be a multitude of things besides posture that is doing this. all back pain is not do to postural issues. that is why i don't encourage everyone to run out and buy this dvd if they are having pain issues. because the imbalance may be the cause of your pain doesn't reflect the same on anyone elses case since each case is so drasticaly different. hey i hope this works for you, i really do. also there are chiro's who specialize in this. chiropractic bio physics. don and deed harrison(deed also is has a docotrate in math as well as degrees in mechanical enginering). they together have more documented articles and studies published than any other doctors. they use traction methods along with methods of stimulating mechanoreceptors and the nervous system to completely change posture of the patients. they have thousands of cliinical tests, xrays pre and post treatment as well as pre and post posture pictures like yours to prove there changes. they are located in elko nevada and there are many chiro's who practice this specific treatment and protocal. (even in canada)google there names and check out there data and studies. i think you may find it intresting. take a look and tell me what you think, i would like to hear your thoughts.

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## sonar1234

Next to the picture i am pertty sure i will be asked to scan my x rays has well, sad thing is i dont have them.

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## Doc.Sust

> Next to the picture i am pertty sure i will be asked to scan my x rays has well, sad thing is i dont have them.


hey i think you posted this the same time i posted my last reply. read my post above, and llets talk.

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## sonar1234

Thanks Doc.Sust, i will be sure to check there studies for sure.

Once more the dvd and book are not for everyone i just wanted to review this program week by week and see if it did anything for me.

It is sad that you say its common knowlege and by the looks of it you would have been able to help me out too but if its that common knowlege why was i given such nonesense by all the people i went to see?

I know that i probably add this imbalance for a while and when i injured myself while squatting and deadlifting it made it worst.

back in 2003 i add a program made to myself for posture called biotonix

i add some small marbles places to each part of my body, add some pictures taken and this is what it said.

My head weights in at 41 pounds instead of the usual 15 pounds its inclined 28 degree and is forward by 4.2 inches.

My pelvic is inclined 7.4 degree infront and is moved 2.6 inches.

Thoses where the major causes and what i add to do to correct them

same thing has the program i have on dvd which says to strech the quads, chest and front deltoids and to strenghten the hams, lower abs and upperback.

Now i did this program for 3 months and felt great but the problem is that i kept training the other muscles too and doing some stairmaster which worked the quads a lot too.

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## sonar1234

The pain does not travel into my butt, nor did i ever experiment numbness into my feet or legs.

I have pain on the upperback, but yet again i never lost sensation in my arms, the pain is located at the same place.

Either lower back a bit more on the right side and it goes up to the upper back.

I get more stiffness after doing the leg raise for lower abs and if i work to hard on the leg curls and close grip pulley rows.

Is it a good idea to train theses weak muscles in the gym? per using leg curls, seated leg curl machine, low pulley rows, hammer pulley rows, and reverse peck deck????

I cannot do any cardio right now cause its gonna work the quads so i go for a walk with my girlfriend each night.

I stopped bootcamp training of course and tae bo.

I plan on going to the last therapist i went to cause he is very good at deep muscle massage, but i guess i should bring the program i bough on dvd and book to him and review it with him.

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## Doc.Sust

> Thanks Doc.Sust, i will be sure to check there studies for sure.
> 
> Once more the dvd and book are not for everyone i just wanted to review this program week by week and see if it did anything for me.
> 
> It is sad that you say its common knowlege and by the looks of it you would have been able to help me out too but if its that common knowlege why was i given such nonesense by all the people i went to see?
> 
> I know that i probably add this imbalance for a while and when i injured myself while squatting and deadlifting it made it worst.
> 
> back in 2003 i add a program made to myself for posture called biotonix
> ...


not sure why the docs you saw didn't know about pelvic misalignments. , andi see you also have some flexion isues with you neck,possibly cerical spine hyperextension. strong extensors and upper traps but wk cervical flexors. this may also be adding to you lower back problems. your head also doesn't weigh 41lbs, it is just the amount of forward flexion is putting that much pressure on spine making your head fel as if it weighs 41lbs. please check out the biophyiscis info and studies, i don't think i ever met a better canidate for this than you with what you have told me.

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## Doc.Sust

[QUOTE=sonar1234]The pain does not travel into my butt, nor did i ever experiment numbness into my feet or legs.

"good, numbness is usually a sign of impingement or disc problems"

I have pain on the upperback, but yet again i never lost sensation in my arms, the pain is located at the same place.

"again good, probably nothing serious"


Either lower back a bit more on the right side and it goes up to the upper back.


"can you explain this in detail? how high up does the pain travel?shoulder/ scapula? midback?



I get more stiffness after doing the leg raise for lower abs and if i work to hard on the leg curls and close grip pulley rows.

"any exercises that may make it worse , stay away from"

Is it a good idea to train theses weak muscles in the gym? per using leg curls, seated leg curl machine, low pulley rows, hammer pulley rows, and reverse peck deck???? 

sure, train them inthe gym, keep the reps high and weight light'"



I cannot do any cardio right now cause its gonna work the quads so i go for a walk with my girlfriend each night.

"walking is all you need, you will be fine"

I stopped bootcamp training of course and tae bo.

I plan on going to the last therapist i went to cause he is very good at deep muscle massage, but i guess i should bring the program i bough on dvd and book to him and review it with him


"goodlet me know what he thinks"

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## sonar1234

By working on my neck and upper back i have been able to get better alignement, remember that this was in 2003 and i have worked on that issue a lot.

Yes the pain usually starts on the right side of the lower back and then goes between the homoplats but never highers.

There i feel spams and have to stetch often to make it go away.

I will then go to the gym and work with light weights has you mention, i also have elastic bands.

I will need to find another exercice to strenghten my lower abs has well and the gym i am at does not have any machines that do so i might try to rop pulldown crunch.

Thank again

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## sonar1234

"can you explain this in detail? how high up does the pain travel?shoulder/ scapula? midback?

The pain never goes higher then upper back, never have i add neck pains.

I know that this summer i add a heavy training session which i did 750pounds leg press, 90 pounds db incline press and even more, i really pushed myself cause the other doc i went to see told me to try it and the pain i felt 2 days after was hell, i felt that my pelvic region was inflamed has hell.

Upper back will get spams when i do the lat pulldown, or i work the upper back with too much weight, i will lower the weight this week and try to go 3 times.

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## Doc.Sust

> "can you explain this in detail? how high up does the pain travel?shoulder/ scapula? midback?
> 
> The pain never goes higher then upper back, never have i add neck pains.
> 
> I know that this summer i add a heavy training session which i did 750pounds leg press, 90 pounds db incline press and even more, i really pushed myself cause the other doc i went to see told me to try it and the pain i felt 2 days after was hell, i felt that my pelvic region was inflamed has hell.
> 
> Upper back will get spams when i do the lat pulldown, or i work the upper back with too much weight, i will lower the weight this week and try to go 3 times.


if the doctor told you to lift heavy whey you were hurt, than the guy is a dick who doesn't know what he is doing.

using bands is a good idead for rehab. i use bands and sometines use the bands and free weights together, but this isn't for the normal person, could be risky. but bands by themself are great.

lower ab exercise

i can write it out, but i can't really show you how it is done

Lower abs

Muscle=rectus abdominus
action-trunk flexion, with chest fixed ,pelvis moves toward chest.

position- patient on back (supine)

motion-patient performs posterior pelvis tilts. while in post. pelvic tilt.slowly sllide your feet out to extend knee's. pt then pushes knee toward ceiling.

hope that make sense, isolates lower abs better than any other exercise. it kind of looks like a reverse crunch using you legs, pick your ass off thefloor while pushing your knees straight up towards the ceiling.

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## Doc.Sust

Chiropractic Biophysics is a unique and scientifically valid Chiropractic Technique used to remove interference from the nervous system. This is accomplished by removing subluxations (or misaligned vertebrae) from the spine. The return of normal structure to the spine allows for an optimally functioning nervous system. The nervous system is the master control system of the body and the literal connection between mind and body, when it is functioning optimally the entire body is functioning optimally. This explains chiropractics ability to treat such a wide variety of ailments because anything affected by the nervous system (and everything is affected by the nervous system) responds to chiropractic treatment.

How Will I be Evaluated?
We will perform a complete spinal exam with corresponding neurological and orthopedic testing, as well as a digitized postural analysis, and spinal X-Rays. The results of these test will help us in determining whether or not there are any structural deficiencies in your spine, that are contributing to your problem.

What Will my Treatment Consist of?
Treatment will consist of an individualized treatment program consisting of home exercises, and chiropractic adjustments designed to correct your posture and spinal alignment. The length of treatment will be determined on an individual basis, and most plans will begin with an intensive restructuring program followed by a less intensive wellness care program.

also check out the web site, www.idealspine.com for more details and to look at the studies and results

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## Doc.Sust

Chiropractic Biophysics® (CBP®)sometimes referred to as Clinical Biomechanics of Posture®is a variation of straight (subluxation-based) chiropractic whose overall goal is to "restore posture." procedures to correct posture [1]. . The method is based on the idea that postural analysis is valid for diagnosing ligament contractures, muscle weakness, and proprioceptive deficits. (Proprioceptors are sensory receptors, found mainly in muscles, tendons, joints, and the inner ear, that detect the motion or position of the body by responding to stimuli arising within the organism.) The assumed deficits are alleged to decrease blood flow, which decreases oxygen delivery and causes the gamut of disease.

CBP is based on idea that spinal curvatures that deviate from a mathematically derived "ideal" value should be corrected. According to three of its its leaders:

The overall goal of CBP technique is to restore normal three-dimentional posture. . . . In CBP, the overall posture or global positioning of the spinal column is targeted for correction, as opposed to individual segments.

In CBP, the optimum static position of the upright spine is established with the Harrison spinal model. A subluxation is considered to be any postural deviation from this mathematical norm [1].

To determine what curvature exists, practitioners draw many lines on the patient's x-ray films and measure the various angles at which they meet [1,2]. The treatment centers around the concept of "mirror image adjusting," which is accomplished by "passing the patient's abnormal posture through the normal position and stressing it into its mirror image or exact opposite posture." [3]. The 2000-2001 Chiropractic Biophysics Practitioners Referral List booklet listed about 1,300 chiropractors who had attended a CBP seminar within the previous two years.

To qualify for treatment, patients undergo a postural examination and are screened for contraindications to manipulation and cervical extension traction [2]. Treatment for qualified patients begins with "relief care" consisting of 1-12 sessions of spinal adjustments, cold or hot packs, trigger point therapy for muscle spasms, and/or massage with a motorized tableall of which are commonly used by chiropractors who are not CBP practitioners. When "relief care" ends, CBP practitioners switch patients to "rehabilitative care," which consists of weekly mirror image adjustments, neck and low-back extension traction, and "mirror image" exercises intended to modify spinal curvature over a longer period of time .

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## Doc.Sust

last bit of info

In December 1980, CBP® Technique (Chiropractic Biophysics ®) was originally named by Drs. Donald Harrison, Deanne Harrison, and Daniel Murphy for physics applied to biology in chiropractic. After a few years, it became apparent that the name was being confused with Biophysics, a field of study usually associated with topics such as energy in molecular bonds. Thus, in the late 1990s, a new name was derived for a more accurate description of the procedures being utilized, i.e., Clinical Biomechanics of Posture® (CBP®). Since 1980, there have been numerous CBP® Texts written.1-7

Until 1980, the majority of chiropractors were attempting to adjust single vertebral subluxations with specific lines of drive. While a few upper cervical techniques could demonstrate some before and after x-ray changes, in general, the adjusting of single vertebra did not result in x-ray changes (except in acute antalgic postures). In March 1980, Dr. Don Harrison originated postural set-ups that he coined Mirror Image®. Clinically, these adjusting set-ups were found to result in postural and x-ray changes; this impression would be subjected to studies later.

For these new Mirror Image® patient positions, Dr. Don Harrison placed the patient in their opposite posture. These Harrison Mirror Image® positions can be described as reflecting the patients head, rib cage, and/or pelvis across the median-sagittal plane in the AP view, and positioning the head, rib cage, and/or pelvis across the mid-frontal plane in the lateral view. Prior to performing CBP® Mirror Image® postural set-ups, the patients initial presenting abnormal posture(s) must be exactly determined.

While others have used engineering concepts to describe all vertebral segmental movements as rotations and translations in 3-dimensions,8 Dr. Don Harrison was the first to describe abnormal postures of the head, rib cage, and pelvis in this manner. (Figures 1 & 2) For each of these postures illustrated in Figures 1 and 2, Dr. Don Harrison originated drop table adjustments, instrument adjustments (both table and hand-held), and exercises in the Mirror Image® posture as evidenced by his videos and books from 1980-1986. Additionally, for use in difficult cases, he originated Mirror Image® postural traction for several of these rotations and translations of the head, rib cage, and pelvis. Also from 1980-1986, he originated cervical extension traction methods to restore the sagittal cervical curve. These Harrison cervical extension traction methods were improved upon by other CBP® practitioners, such as Dr. Mike Fisk (Spokane, WA), Dr. Dwight DeGeoerge (Saugus, MA) and Dr. Mile Pope (Troy, OH). 

Although CBP® procedures resulted in clinically documented corrections in posture and cervical curve configurations from 1986-1996, methods to restore thoracic and lumbar sagittal curvatures awaited the graduation of Dr. Deed Harrison. Dr. Deed Harrison originated methods of lumbar curvature and thoracic cage postural traction that made routine changes in lumbar lordosis possible. He further refined the CBP® sagittal cervical traction methods with an analysis of head posture, curve configuration, thoracic curvature, gender, and body size.


Why Traction?

Biomechanical studies have established that long-term biomechanical adaptation requires a constant force over a period of time.9 Traction delivers a constant force over a period of time. An important and unique aspect of the CBP® technique is the utilization of traction. In line with this thinking, long-term corrections of abnormal spinal postural distortions would require a force applied over a period of time, and this can be achieved with traction. Clinical investigations of this premise have proven it to be correct; our traction protocols have proven to result in long-term correction of spinal postural distortions.10-15 However, CBP® Traction is not the flexion-axial traction encountered in the medical/PT literature; CBP® Traction is to correct posture and to restore the sagittal spinal curvatures.

Goals of Care

Many in chiropractic are turning away from structural outcomes of care to concentrate on pain reduction, improved ranges of motion (ROM), and other functional outcomes. In contrast, CBP® emphasizes optimal posture and spinal alignment as the primary goal of chiropractic care, while still documenting improvements in pain and functional based outcomes.16 Even though some authors17 in chiropractic claim that an optimal and average spinal model does not exist, CBP® research on this topic, based on averages of normal subjects, has been published in some of the most prestigious orthopaedic journals in the Index Medicus.18-23 CBP® has published normal shapes, normal global angles (C2-C7, T2-T11, and L1-L5), and normal segmental angles for each of the sagittal spinal regions (cervical, thoracic, and lumbar). These are evidence based models. In fact, the CBP® sagittal lumbar elliptical model19 and the sagittal circular cervical model23 have been found to have predictive validity in as much as they can discriminate between normal subjects, acute pain subjects, and chronic pain subjects.

To establish optimal and average sagittal models, x-ray line drawing procedures were utilized. CBP® protocols require that the doctor measure the patients abnormal posture (global Subluxation) and measure the displacements on spinal radiographs (segmental Subluxation). While some in the chiropractic research arena believe x-ray analysis to be unreliable17, this is the minority position. The CBP® x-ray line drawing procedures have been studied and shown to be reliable.24-27 The postural and spinal displacements are the determining factors for deriving the patients individualized program of care. While our critics claim that posture, x-ray positioning, and x-ray line drawing are not reliable, our published research shows that these procedures are highly repeatable.28

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## farrebarre

sorry to highjack the thread, have had a shoulder injury for about 4-5 months now, cant go to the gym nor anything and it sucks, could you give me some advice & info Doc?? thnx

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## sonar1234

Thank you very much doc sust, the article you posted have a lot of reference to the dvd and book package that i bought.

You self evalute yourself infront of a mirror, by doing various streches and by taking pictures.

I also have an eletronic muscle stimulator that i payed 800$ (thats how desperate i was see my point), after the last physio i went plugged me onto that for 12 minutes.

Can i used this to work my lower abs? i dont want to work my hamstrings with it or the back only the abs, not sure if it would strengten them.

Has you can see i have encountered many dicks in my search for a cure for back pain, many of them have told me to go back to regular activity even if the pain was still there.

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## Doc.Sust

> sorry to highjack the thread, have had a shoulder injury for about 4-5 months now, cant go to the gym nor anything and it sucks, could you give me some advice & info Doc?? thnx


lets start a new thread. tell me how it happened, frequency of pain and will get on it.

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## Doc.Sust

> Thank you very much doc sust, the article you posted have a lot of reference to the dvd and book package that i bought.
> 
> You self evalute yourself infront of a mirror, by doing various streches and by taking pictures.
> 
> I also have an eletronic muscle stimulator that i payed 800$ (thats how desperate i was see my point), after the last physio i went plugged me onto that for 12 minutes.
> 
> Can i used this to work my lower abs? i dont want to work my hamstrings with it or the back only the abs, not sure if it would strengten them.
> 
> Has you can see i have encountered many dicks in my search for a cure for back pain, many of them have told me to go back to regular activity even if the pain was still there.


the kind of electric stim you have is probably low volt galvanic and not russian stim. russian stim is used to strengthen not LVG, so if your machine can not dothe russian stim it won't strengthen anything. check out the web site at ww.idealspine.com and you will find pictures of tractions and rticles that may give you some moe insight and help. trust me , i am not trying to sell this to you, but if i had to chose a doc, i would only go to one that practiced CBP or active release technique. you may also want to look into this too. very good for athletic performance and pain care.

now you have a few more options, check the litterature and do a little research, this may also help you , i am glad i could give you some info, also now youcan see that alll chiro's don't practice the same thing and most of us do now what to do in these cases. i hope i renewed your faith in medical profssionals just a little bit. and if you have any problems or ideas, we are good, so just ask and i will see what i can do free of charge!

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## sonar1234

Well doc sust i just posted a few of my problems and you manage to pin point me in the right direction so i guess if you where near my house you would be my next option.

Has for now i will pay close attention to the movements i do if it hurt i can it, i will start training to strenghten my upper back, hamstrings with high reps and use light weights.

Will reseach a bit has well, and if the dvd book package from http://www.losethebackpain.com/ dont work i will send for a full refund.

I have over a month to do so, i will take it one week at a time and see where i am at next month.

Since from what i have told you it does not seem to be anything serious that did encourage me, i add my last x ray taken in 2002 and everything was fine from that part.

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## Doc.Sust

remember xrays only really show bones in the spine. have you ever had an mri?

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## Doc.Sust

also glad we put our difference aside and our working together, just keep me posted on your progress, and if it doesn't work, we may have more options.

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## sonar1234

Thank you very much doc sust i wil keep you posted, i have never add an mri.

But have been told that my pain would be a lot worst if it was bone related, i have spams.

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## Doc.Sust

i am still shocked nobody ever took an mri with all the problems you had to just see if it was a herniated or bulged disc especially since the pain radiates and has never subsided. do you have access to an orthopedic?

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## Mealticket

o.k...it's cool we're all frineds now...but seriously.....where are the pics?

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## Doc.Sust

> o.k...it's cool we're all frineds now...but seriously.....where are the pics?


hahahaha!!!

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## sonar1234

No i dont, the pain is muscular, since my pelvic got adjusted the pain left the lower spin.

I have pain mostly on my right side bottom and my upper back between the omoplates.

I have been told many times it was posture related, the last kinestologist i saw check my vertebras one by one and said they where all properly aligned. Plus the pain from a herina would be a lot greater then the pain i have now.

The pain i have now is a spams i crack myself and it goes away for a while but comes back, of course if i push myself to hard its gonna jam my pelvic and hurt has hell but its nothing like a hearnia, i knew people who add that pain.

I will try to get some pics and post them so you can check my posture.

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## sonar1234

Dr sust the exercice for lower abs works fine thanks a million, just by changing the way i do them i feel a lot less pain.

Is it not normal that when you work on posture that you will still feel some pain cause the body has to adjust, i work a lot on realigning my neck, with elastic bands i sort of put then 12 inch infront of me and strech them, it works the mid back and the rear deltoid, i also use to bands for pulley rows, after i done this i usually get some spasm but i feel my back and shoulders pulling from behind and i do feel it working, i feel more straight.

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## Doc.Sust

> No i dont, the pain is muscular, since my pelvic got adjusted the pain left the lower spin.
> 
> I have pain mostly on my right side bottom and my upper back between the omoplates.
> 
> I have been told many times it was posture related, the last kinestologist i saw check my vertebras one by one and said they where all properly aligned. Plus the pain from a herina would be a lot greater then the pain i have now.
> 
> The pain i have now is a spams i crack myself and it goes away for a while but comes back, of course if i push myself to hard its gonna jam my pelvic and hurt has hell but its nothing like a hearnia, i knew people who add that pain.
> 
> I will try to get some pics and post them so you can check my posture.


a hernia is way differnt from a disc herniation! go to www.webmd.com and search and read about what a herniated disc is.

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## Doc.Sust

glad the ab beal is working, i love that movement, harder than it sounds. 

yep it is normal to feel pain when making posture changes. posture changes deal with mechanoreceptors. pain is dealt with nocioceptors, too different things, so what i am saying is just because you fix posture doesn't always mean that pain will disapear. it is very probable that it will but not guaranteed IMO. in the long run the pain will probably stop if posture is the cause

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## sonar1234

Ok thanks again doc, another thing if it does not stop i will have to look into finding another professional and i dont wanna screw up this time.

What should i look for in a doctor and back pain? also mealticket will be glad cause i will be borrowing a digital camera so i can post my pics and you can see how bad it is.

LOL thanks again for your help and i feel really bad about what i said earlier on, not all docs are the same, sad that some are out there only to make money.

Thank you once again. Will get an exercice ball tonight cause some of the movement i have to do on this and i have the elastic bands.

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## Doc.Sust

no problem friend, you learned that all docs aren't dicks and i learned to not lose my temper and talking is better than yelling. its like a 'fullhouse"tv episode.hahahahah! as far as finding a nw pro, if it doesn't work, we will cross that bridge when we get there. i also have to know where you are located, then i can research your region for someone who is good. lets hope it doesn't come to that, i hope your program works so we don't have to find anybody, in the mean time, i want you to read more about chiropractic bio physics and active release technique. (both are very different and very good)did you check any of the websites yet/ i want you to be familiar with both typesof practiconers, i think the bio-physics is rt up your alley.

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## Doc.Sust

hopefullywe wont need to find a practiconer for you! read the website about the chiro- bio-physics and also google active release techniques(ART). i think the CBP and ART are the best choices hands down.

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## sonar1234

http://www.idealspine.com/pages/cbp_technique.htm I have check out this website, very interesting.

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## sonar1234

After doing some research i have found out that chiropratic in the US if a lot better and advanced then here in Canada and pertty much better has well.

I did not know that it covered so much ground, the treatements that i add where between 3-5 minutes, went in got cracked and got out move on to the next appointement.

I visited some website that where pertty deep in studies has well.

I have read on hernia has well but must say i do not have pain in my testicules or in the region, i only found articles related to that.

I also found that this type of injury can be pertty painful has well.

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## Doc.Sust

glad you are doing reserarch. i never new there was such a difference in canada in my field. disc herniation, not just hernia. lumbar disc herniation causes pain in the lower back.

As a disc degenerates, it can herniate (the inner core extrudes) back into the spinal canal, which is known as a disc herniation (or a herniated disc). The weak spot in a disc is directly under the nerve root, and a herniated disc in this area puts direct pressure on the nerve, which in turn can cause pain to radiate all the way down the patients leg to the foot 

Approximately 90% of disc herniations will occur at L4- L5 (lumbar segments 4 and 5) or L5- S1 (lumbar segment 5 and sacral segment1), which causes pain in the L5 nerve or S1 nerve, respectively.



L5 nerve impingement from a herniated disc can cause weakness in extension of the big toe and potentially in the ankle (foot drop). Numbness and pain can be felt on top of the foot, and the pain may also radiate into the rear.


S1 nerve impingement from a herniated disc may cause loss of the ankle reflex and/or weakness in ankle push off (e.g. patients cannot do toe rises). Numbness and pain can radiate down to the sole or outside of the foot (see Figure 2).

Conservative treatment for a lumbar herniated disc
In most cases, if a patients low back and/or leg pain is going to resolve after a lumbar herniated disc it will do so within about six weeks. While waiting to see if the disc will heal on its own, several conservative treatment options can help reduce the back pain, leg pain and discomfort caused by the herniated disc.



Physical therapy


Osteopathic/chiropractic manipulations


Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs)


Oral steroids (e.g. prednisone)


An epidural (cortisone) injection

If the pain continues after six weeks, it is reasonable to consider microdiscectomy surgery as an option to alleviate the pain from the herniated disc. A microdiscectomy essentially acts as a microdecompression of the nerve root to provide the nerve with a better healing environment.

Surgical treatment for a lumbar herniated disc
Using microsurgical techniques (a small operation using a microscope) to treat a lumbar herniated disc, a microdiscectomy can usually be done on an outpatient basis or with an overnight stay in the hospital, and most patients can return to work full duty in one to three weeks. For more information on this procedure, please see Microdiscectomy (microdecompression) back surgery.

With an experienced surgeon, the success rate of surgery for a lumbar herniated disc should be about 95%. Usually, only the small portion of the disc (5-8%) that is pushing against the nerve root needs to be excised, and the majority of the disc remains intact.

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## Doc.Sust

also a little more info, read more at http://www.activerelease.com

HOW CAN ART HELP ME?

What is Active Release Technique (ART)?

ART is a patented, state-of-the-art soft tissue system that treats problems with muscles, tendons, ligaments, fascia and nerves. Headaches, back pain, carpal tunnel syndrome, shin splints, shoulder pain, sciatica, plantar fasciitis, knee problems, and tennis elbow are just a few of the many conditions that can be resolved quickly and permanently with ART. These conditions all have one important thing in common: they are often a result of overused muscles.

How do overuse conditions occur?

Over-used muscles (and other soft tissues) change in three important ways:

* acute conditions (pulls, tears, collisions, etc),
* accumulation of small tears (micro-trauma)
* not getting enough oxygen (hypoxia).

Each of these factors can cause your body to produce tough, dense scar tissue in the affected area. This scar tissue binds up and ties down tissues that need to move freely. As scar tissue builds up, muscles become shorter and weaker, tension on tendons causes tendonitis, and nerves can become trapped. This can cause reduced range of motion, loss of strength, and pain. If a nerve is trapped you may also feel tingling, numbness, and weakness.

What is an ART treatment like?

Every ART session is actually a combination of examination and treatment. The ART provider uses his or her hands to evaluate the texture, tightness and movement of muscles, fascia, tendons, ligaments and nerves. Abnormal tissues are treated by combining precisely directed tension with very specific patient movements.

These treatment protocols - over 500 specific moves - are unique to ART. They allow providers to identify and correct the specific problems that are affecting each individual patient. ART is not a cookie-cutter approach.

What is the history of Active Release Techniques?

ART has been developed, refined, and patented by P. Michael Leahy, DC, CCSP. Dr. Leahy noticed that his patients symptoms seemed to be related to changes in their soft tissue that could be felt by hand. By observing how muscles, fascia, tendons, ligaments and nerves responded to different types of work, Dr. Leahy was able to consistently resolve over 90% of his patients problems. He now teaches and certifies health care providers all over the world to use ART.

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## sonar1234

As a disc degenerates, it can herniate (the inner core extrudes) back into the spinal canal, which is known as a disc herniation (or a herniated disc). The weak spot in a disc is directly under the nerve root, and a herniated disc in this area puts direct pressure on the nerve, which in turn can cause pain to radiate all the way down the patients leg to the foot 

Good i dont have thoses symptoms

Thanks Doc, i feel a lot of relief when i strech my pelvic, in the front, like doing a lung but streching instead of doing the movement.

I notice that my neck and back are starting to get closer to a more normal posture and my pelvic that add a curve backward is starting to pull back to the front.

Lets hope that this will solve my problem one sense for all.

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## sonar1234

Has for research when someone brings up something interesting its for sure i will look it up.

I am very impressed by the chiropratic in the US, and its quit sad that here in Canada you get a damn chiro clinic every corner and there is nothing special about the treatements, i called a few places today to ask about theses treatements and they where all mixed up.

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## liftergirl

Just read some of the stuff that docs/health prof said to you, etc....that's definately NOT the way it works here! Hope you can get stuff fixed!

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