# STEROIDS FORUM > HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY- Low T, Anti-Aging >  High Estrogen

## Inquisitor

I've always assumed that if your estrogen goes too high that there will be physical indicators such as bloating and sensitive nips. Is it possible to have high estrogen that kills your libido and your gains, yet not have any of the signs I've mentioned ??

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## Chevroletstud

I definately want to hear what others have to say. Myself, I had never taken an ai until a few weeks back because I had no symptoms. After taking it, I definately notice a change. Now I wonder if I should have held off.

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## steroid.com 1

Here's a good read on the effects of high E2 levels in men: http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/...ng-Male_01.htm

Symptoms of Estrogen Dominance include:
Enlarged Prostate, Urinary Problems, Low Sex Drive, ED, Impotence, Diabetes, Allergies, Depression, Fatigue, Foggy thinking, increased risk of stroke, infertility, rapid increase in weight and Osteoporosis just to name a few. 

If the body has a proper balance of Testosterone to Estradiol, many of these symptoms can be alleviated.

You don't want high E2 for a lot of reasons. Only BW will tell you where you at and guessing and trying different dosages can only make matters worse.

gd

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## steroid.com 1

> I definately want to hear what others have to say. Myself, *I had never taken an ai until a few weeks back because I had no symptoms*. After taking it, I definately notice a change. Now I wonder if I should have held off.


If you had no symptoms why did you add in an AI? Did you have BW done that reflected high E2 and the need for an AI? How much did you take and when? Having very low E2 levels can be just as bad as too high. Are you on a TRT protocol and has your Doc said anything to you about why you need an AI?

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## Chevroletstud

I am not on trt. I started noticing slight gyno and got scared. I followed a post on here, but cant remember which one, I would have to look. Anyway, took letro, and it killed my gains and made me tired.

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## steroid.com 1

> I am not on trt. I started noticing slight gyno and got scared. I followed a post on here, but cant remember which one, I would have to look. *Anyway, took letro, and it killed my gains and made me tired*.


No kidding. I wouldn't have recommended that at all.

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## Chevroletstud

I havent taken any letro in about a week. Im mid cycle of test 600 mgs a week. Will my gains return??

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## steroid.com 1

> I havent taken any letro in about a week. Im mid cycle of test 600 mgs a week. Will my gains return??


Probably a good question for the guys in the Anabolic forum; but would think so after you metabolize the rest of the letro.

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## Inquisitor

Let me explain my experience. I started a cycle of 400 per week enanthate after being off for 6 months. I had read where someone said you get leaner gains and better cut with you take an AI and there dosage was aromasin 12.5 mgs EOD. Well, *LATER...* I found out that that was a huge dose for someone who was prone to estrogen and gyno. So, me, who gets not signs of gyno, probably should have taken a lot less. Now... get this..... I go to cut my 25 mg little pills in half and they would crumble when I tried to cut them in the pill cutter. So, I just take the whole thing and do that EOD. Sometimes, I would skip a day or two, one time didn't take for like 4 days. Anyway, my gains were good and I was hornier than a toad. My hard-ons were massive (thought I'd throw that in). Then, I ran out of aromasin and I started to feel really bad in week 8. Actually, right before I quit, I think I was feeling weird in week 7. My gains started in week 4 (typically) and they came to a halt in week 8. I had depression, lost my gains, lost energy, lost libido and hard ons. I was a wreck. I would keep pinning and even jumped up to 600 mgs/wk of enanthate and I wouldn't feel a thing. No libido, no strength, no gains. It was like pinning straight oil. I felt my blood pressure rise,.. that's it.

Then, I went on a job for 3 weeks out of town. I just quit everything and took off. I noticed my libido barely creep back but it was hard to keep a hard on. It would fall like a wilting weed if it wasn't continuously aroused. I pulled my 3 weeks and then went home and tried the test again. I noticed a few pounds of gain but still no libido. Strength increased minimally and energy was average, nothing spectacular.

So, I am sitting here wondering... Did that AI kill my estrogen or was my estrogen high and the AI put it in the right place? The second option sounds more plausible because this all really started when I quit the AI. But.... 25 freakin mgs EOD ??? That's a lot of aromasin. Maybe I was getting it right and then should have maintained it with a much smaller dose. I don't know,.... but right now my only option is to get a damn blood test. I have some arimidex on order and I am about to purchase liquid aromasin so I can dose better. 

Any thoughts ???

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## JD250

This question could probably be in the anabolic section also but I will say this and it should answer your question....high e2 will ruin your free test levels, ruin your hard-ons and ruin your gains and generally make you feel shitty. At 600 mgs test a week you should certainly be concerned with skyrocketing e2 levels. Of course a blood test is the only way to be CERTAIN.

BTW the link that G-devine posted will help you understand how DANGEROUS it is never mind your hard-on problems. A good AI is your friend.

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## steroid.com 1

> Let me explain my experience. I started a cycle of 400 per week enanthate after being off for 6 months. I had read where someone said you get leaner gains and better cut with you take an AI and there dosage was aromasin 12.5 mgs EOD. Well, *LATER...* I found out that that was a huge dose for someone who was prone to estrogen and gyno. So, me, who gets not signs of gyno, probably should have taken a lot less. Now... get this..... I go to cut my 25 mg little pills in half and they would crumble when I tried to cut them in the pill cutter. So, I just take the whole thing and do that EOD. Sometimes, I would skip a day or two, one time didn't take for like 4 days. Anyway, my gains were good and I was hornier than a toad. My hard-ons were massive (thought I'd throw that in). Then, I ran out of aromasin and I started to feel really bad in week 8. Actually, right before I quit, I think I was feeling weird in week 7. My gains started in week 4 (typically) and they came to a halt in week 8. I had depression, lost my gains, lost energy, lost libido and hard ons. I was a wreck. I would keep pinning and even jumped up to 600 mgs/wk of enanthate and I wouldn't feel a thing. No libido, no strength, no gains. It was like pinning straight oil. I felt my blood pressure rise,.. that's it.
> 
> Then, I went on a job for 3 weeks out of town. I just quit everything and took off. I noticed my libido barely creep back but it was hard to keep a hard on. It would fall like a wilting weed if it wasn't continuously aroused. I pulled my 3 weeks and then went home and tried the test again. I noticed a few pounds of gain but still no libido. Strength increased minimally and energy was average, nothing spectacular.
> 
> So, I am sitting here wondering... Did that AI kill my estrogen or was my estrogen high and the AI put it in the right place? The second option sounds more plausible because this all really started when I quit the AI. But.... 25 freakin mgs EOD ??? That's a lot of aromasin. Maybe I was getting it right and then should have maintained it with a much smaller dose. I don't know,.... but right now my only option is to get a damn blood test. I have some arimidex on order and I am about to purchase liquid aromasin so I can dose better. 
> 
> Any thoughts ???


I hear your pain man. This forum is for men who want to optimize their health and well-being through controlled TRT protocols. Yes, there are some really good guys here who do small blats from time to time; but they know exactly what they are doing. 

Reading your post above no wonder you're having problems...you're all over the place. For starters, you are in HPTA shut down and then to quit for 3 weeks is going to cause you all kinds of problems like you experienced. I am not a Doc so I don't even know where to begin to get you back on track. I honestly think the guys over on the Anabolic forum can help you. You may even try the PCT forum to see if you need to get re-started. Better yet, it may be time to find a Doc who can fix you; someone with PCT experience. 

You're messing with some serious shit man and could end up hurting yourself with no way to get back. 

BTW, how old are you? Just asking....for no other reason.

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## Inquisitor

53 years old. I am almost positive I have high E2 levels. I was the epitome of health before I started anything like testosterone , so I know my body well. I recently started to get acid reflux and I never get that stuff. I looked it up and it says that it is associated with high estrogen and progesterone. I also felt like high blood pressure and even experienced a headache from it. I looked it up and that is associated with high estrogen. I am sure that I have high estrogen with no typical signs such as gyno.

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## GotNoBlueMilk

Lots of people will have high E2 w/o any gyno symptoms. There have been cases on here where guys had E2 well above 100 and no gyno symptoms. Gyno is tied to high E2 levels, but there are other things required too, such as receptors, IGF levels.

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## Inquisitor

I have an appointment with a urologist in early Sept. Going to try that. Do you think an Endo would be better? There is an endo clinic that I may be able to get into quicker.

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## flatscat

Go get your bw done. All is speculation until you see the results.

Wish you all the best.

And I agree with the above comments.

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## steroid.com 1

Find an Endo who knows PCT protocols. This is very important or you're going to end up with a Doc who won't know how to help you.

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## jtuner77

What about someone that has low normal Test, High E and High Free Test?

Here are my specs

Free Testosterone 93.9, 35-155 pg/mL(I am told I should be 8.7-25.1)
Total Testosterone 395, 250-1100 ng/dL
Total Serum Estrogen 114, 130 or less pg/mL(I am told I should be 10-30)
FSH 4.7, 1.6-8.0 mIU/mL
LH 5.9, 1.5-9.3 mIU/mL
Progesterone <.5, <1.4 ng/mL
Prolactin 11.0, 2-18 ng/mL

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## bbray

I can say from recent experience that I didn't really notice any symptoms of high E2. At least, I had no bloating or sensitive nips. I got BW done and my E2 was 64. At least I thought that I hadn't noticed the more classic symptoms. But then I realized that although my total T was 1410, I wasn't feeling as great as I did when I first started TRT. Then I realized that my sex drive wasn't what it was a few weeks before, it was more like it was before I started TRT. But since these were so subtle it snuck up on me and I wasn't realizing it until the BW. Now I am on a an AI. So my answer to your question from my experience is yes.

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## Bigfoot66

Always thought I was a hardgainer...very tall, lanky...but carried love handles and moobs. I thought it was genetic. My first E2 tests were in the 60's with only sensitive nips. When it went to 110 we started Arimidex ...1/4 of a tab every 4 days...since then i'm on 1/2 tab EOD. Levels around 20. In about 6 months have lost almost all lovehandles. Lifting has a lot to do with this I know. Hormones are tricky.

I am still not a powerhouse, but I've filled out to the point that I feel I look like a normal human being rather than a diseased skeleton. Causes bad self-esteem issues (probably the high E2 emotionally affected self esteem as well).

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## zaggahamma

> Always thought I was a hardgainer...very tall, lanky...but carried love handles and moobs. I thought it was genetic. My first E2 tests were in the 60's with only sensitive nips. When it went to 110 we started Arimidex ...1/4 of a tab every 4 days...since then i'm on 1/2 tab EOD. Levels around 20. In about 6 months have lost almost all lovehandles. Lifting has a lot to do with this I know. Hormones are tricky.
> 
> I am still not a powerhouse, but I've filled out to the point that I feel I look like a normal human being rather than a diseased skeleton. Causes bad self-esteem issues (probably the high E2 emotionally affected self esteem as well).


 real good story bro....good example...glad you got it straight

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## funkymonk

If e2 is on the higher end of the "normal range," along with a high-normal test level (both free and total), but no symptoms of high e are evident, should an AI be included as a preventative measure?

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## Bigfoot66

> If e2 is on the higher end of the "normal range," along with a high-normal test level (both free and total), but no symptoms of high e are evident, should an AI be included as a preventative measure?


I say yes because you really don't know what the symptoms would feel like if you've never not experienced them.

One other thing...you will seriously lean out with an AI. Don't know why but it happens. Someone here may know why..if so tell us!

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## funkymonk

> I say yes because you really don't know what the symptoms would feel like if you've never not experienced them.
> 
> *One other thing...you will seriously lean out with an AI. Don't know why but it happens. Someone here may know why..if so tell us!*


I always thought it was because high e2 causes water retention typically.

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## Inquisitor

I'm still waiting on my urologist appointment on the 31st and I'm freaking out here because, not only do I feel like crap, but I got haircut recently and it shows that I my hair is thinning on the front. This is the crazy part..... I HAVE NO BALDNESS IN MY FAMILY !! NONE!

My hormones must be waaaay out of balance here. Will high estrogen cause hair thinning ?

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## rolypoly

> I've always assumed that if your estrogen goes too high that there will be physical indicators such as bloating and sensitive nips. Is it possible to have high estrogen that kills your libido and your gains, yet not have any of the signs I've mentioned ??


YES. Yes. I learned this the hard way. I started getting ED 5 weeks or so into my first cycle. With 2 girls in a row. Not that I couldn't get it up, but it wouldn't STAY up. Everything was fine pre-cycle. 

That could be high E. Could also be low E. I also had achy joints in my legs, and wasn't bloated, no gyno at all. Seemed like a no-brainer. So playing Dr. Google, I misdiagnosed myself with Low E and stopped taking my AI.

2 weeks go by and shit is getting worse. It actually cost me the new girl. She got fed up and left. I finally relent and do what I should have done the minute I had symptoms and drew blood. Another week goes by waiting for results and I'm still treating for low E. I was even eating Edamame with dinner for the soy. Blood comes back and E2 was sky high at 105! on the ultra sensitive test. I am FLOORED. I was sure it was low E.

In hindsight I had achy leg joints because the first few weeks of my cycle before E got out of control I TRIPLED my strength on leg press and my ankle and thigh joints were achy because of the increase in load in such a short time. None of my other joints were achy.

I didn't bloat because I meticulously manage carbs, and basically only load up M,W,F at lunch before my workout. The rest of the time I live on chicken and lean veggies, tuna, egg whites. I'm fanatical on the diet. So of course you won't bloat eating like that.

And I didn't have any gyno symptoms cause I'm a lucky ass mothereffer!

The symptoms I did have was a damn broken dick! And eventually the gains stopped and I had off workouts even on cycle.

After a week back on the AI my gains came back. Dick is..... iffy. It's good sometimes, it's off sometimes. Still not 100%.

AI's are strong and fast acting, but if you have a high E situation it takes time for your body to metabolize the E you do have. So while my AI starts working day 1. It's blocking aromatase. It's not lowering E. You just have to wait on your body to use up that E. ...at least that's how I understand it. 

FWIW, I was on an a-dex from day 1 at .5mg EOD. Which is the high end of standard recommendation. I'm 40. And maybe just genetically aromatize more than average. So for me I think .5mgED is what it's going to take.

My cycle was
500mg Test E
500iu HCG 
A-dex .5mg EOD

Like I said I'm going every day on the adex now.

I think the lesson is ALWAYS draw mid-cycle blood, no matter what. Just to see where you're at. If something is off and you don't have symptoms yet.... you will. At the very least, you can optimize your gains based on bloods. If you don't have an extra couple hundred set aside for blood work, you really shouldn't cycle.

....I know it's an old thread, but for guys googling their way here.

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## Bigboybodybuilder

> YES. Yes. I learned this the hard way. I started getting ED 5 weeks or so into my first cycle. With 2 girls in a row. Not that I couldn't get it up, but it wouldn't STAY up. Everything was fine pre-cycle. 
> 
> That could be high E. Could also be low E. I also had achy joints in my legs, and wasn't bloated, no gyno at all. Seemed like a no-brainer. So playing Dr. Google, I misdiagnosed myself with Low E and stopped taking my AI.
> 
> 2 weeks go by and shit is getting worse. It actually cost me the new girl. She got fed up and left. I finally relent and do what I should have done the minute I had symptoms and drew blood. Another week goes by waiting for results and I'm still treating for low E. I was even eating Edamame with dinner for the soy. Blood comes back and E2 was sky high at 105! on the ultra sensitive test. I am FLOORED. I was sure it was low E.
> 
> In hindsight I had achy leg joints because the first few weeks of my cycle before E got out of control I TRIPLED my strength on leg press and my ankle and thigh joints were achy because of the increase in load in such a short time. None of my other joints were achy.
> 
> I didn't bloat because I meticulously manage carbs, and basically only load up M,W,F at lunch before my workout. The rest of the time I live on chicken and lean veggies, tuna, egg whites. I'm fanatical on the diet. So of course you won't bloat eating like that.
> ...



Came across this post and thought it might help me 

Im on 500 test e a week 

And Ive not no sex drive at all 
No morning wood or sex drive at all
Penis feels dead does not even more 

Even cialis does not work 

Ive lost my appetite as well 

And got anxiety and panic attacks the other morning 

I have bloated stomach but dont seem bloated anywhere else 

My joints dont hurt or have itchy skin 

My shoulders hurt when lift thats it but they suck anyway 

Would this be high e2 or low 

Thanks

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## hammerheart

How much AI are you taking, if any?

Could be both...

Sent from my GT-I9105P using Tapatalk

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## EDCG19

> Probably a good question for the guys in the Anabolic forum; but would think so after you metabolize the rest of the letro.


Agreed with this, also do you have any current blood work? I didn't notice any in the thread, i may be mistaken...

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## Bigboybodybuilder

> How much AI are you taking, if any?
> 
> Could be both...
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9105P using Tapatalk


I had only pinned two jab of 250 test e
Took 0.25 arimidex next day 0.5 then nuffin for day or too 

Last night I took a full 1 mg tab 
Had the worse night ever 
Didn’t stop sweating all night could
Not sleep at all but felt so tired 
Was scared to get out of bed maybe anxiety 
Like I wanted to hide away from the world 

Got out of bed and injected 1500ui of hcg and 62.5 mg of test 
Went back to bed for a hour 

Woke up feeling much better even had sex with my wife 

Maybe the hcg spiked my
E2 back up ? 

I took cialis the day before and it didn’t do anything at all didn’t move my penis was dead 

Heard that with low e2 cialis don’t not work 

So maybe I was low and the
Hcg spiked e2 ?

I can’t get bloods while on high dose as doctors will stop my trt 

I’m dropping everything for now and just doing my trt dose of 125 mg a week 

See level things out

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## BillyJ03z

> I'm still waiting on my urologist appointment on the 31st and I'm freaking out here because, not only do I feel like crap, but I got haircut recently and it shows that I my hair is thinning on the front. This is the crazy part..... I HAVE NO BALDNESS IN MY FAMILY !! NONE!
> 
> My hormones must be waaaay out of balance here. Will high estrogen cause hair thinning ?


I am in the same situation! I have been on TRT for over 7 yrs with no AI and no issues until I recently added DHEA a few months ago and now My E2 spiked over 68-130... In about 2 1/2 months my hair has thinned dramatically all over as well has turned very dry, my facial hair has changed texture from nice dark firm man hair to lighter colored, weaker, sparser facial hair... Also, my lipids went bad and my TSH, FT4 and FT3 are showing hypo as I now have hypo symptoms in combination with all the high E2 problems (no gyno thank god)... from what I have researched is that that high E2 can suppress Thyroid which in turn messes with Lipids and SHBG (it's just a snowball effect. Also because I have naturally low shbg while on TRT (13- 22 range) I utilize free test very well but apparently the low shbg is a double edged sword as my body is more sensitive to E2 giving more enhanced high e2 issues...

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## Brenning

> I'm still waiting on my urologist appointment on the 31st and I'm freaking out here because, not only do I feel like crap, but I got haircut recently and it shows that I my hair is thinning on the front. This is the crazy part..... I HAVE NO BALDNESS IN MY FAMILY !! NONE!
> 
> My hormones must be waaaay out of balance here. Will high estrogen cause hair thinning ?


Sorry to dig up an ancient thread, but what happened with this? I've had the same symptoms as you (including the wood and libido problems) for 15 years now after stupidly running a test / decca cycle when I was 18 with no AI and no PCT.

F.Y.I live in a country these days where it's not possible to get accurate blood work

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## DinAZ

> Sorry to dig up an ancient thread, but what happened with this? I've had the same symptoms as you (including the wood and libido problems) for 15 years now after stupidly running a test / decca cycle when I was 18 with no AI and no PCT.
> 
> F.Y.I live in a country these days where it's not possible to get accurate blood work


I'd make your own thread and post your question rather than getting mixed up in this nonsense thread. People talking about no gains and balding from high estrogen have no idea what they are talking about and are not people you want to get advice from. Those symptoms would more likely come from low estrogen than high estrogen. I'm far from an expert but I know what I know and what I don't know, and you don't want to take advice from a thread of people that can't even take the time to google high/low estrogen effects on the body.

You could possibly be low T and benefit from testosterone . HCG maybe could help but other people know more about that stuff than me so I'll stop here but I'd make your own thread if you want useful responses.

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