# STEROIDS FORUM > HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY- Low T, Anti-Aging >  Axiron 30mg concerns and expectations (just started)

## tblues

Hello Everyone..

I found this forum by chance after looking for info on the new TRT my doctor just started me on. 

In a nutshell:
34yrs old
T levels 373 and FT 6.1
following week was lower at 218 and FT 4.6 
(range is supposed to be 248 and FT 8.7) 
My primary care doc had me started on Axiron 15mg. One pump for each armpit. (edit: 30mg per pump, not 15mg)

I am going back for more tests in a month to see what 30mg does for my levels. (edit: 60mg not 30mg)

Hopefully I start noticing increased energy soon, because I feel like crap all the time. 

Now that I am on this therapy, I am finding that it might help me have some success at bulking up, which I have never been able to do. It is hard for me to build muscle. 

What kind of levels should I expect to see from 30mg daily Axiron and would this help me grow big if I start lifting and eating well? Or 30mg of this delivery system is not good for growing?

What kind of undesirable side effects are common? Would this make my tits bigger or enlarge my prostate? I have a history of prostate cancer in my family unfortunately and I already have slightly bigger than normal mammary glands, so I would hate to get bigger bitch tits. 

I would appreciate your input.

Thanks a lot!

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## The Deadlifting Dog

tblues -

First of all, welcome to the forum.
There are many knowledgeable members here who can help you in your TRT journey.

OK, where to start.

Axiron is 30mg per pump.
So if you are using 2 pumps you are getting 60mgs per day.
Best results are obtained by applying in the morning after a shower.

Assuming that the dose gets your testosterone level into a decent range (500 and up), then it should help in putting on muscle and losing some fat.
Get blood tested 2-4 hours after applying Axiron.


Some side effects are:
losing hair on your head
gaining hair everywhere else
increased appetite
increased libido

Most men on topicals don't have estrogen problems. However it is possible. Only bloodwork can truly tell. Being overweight adds to the chances of estrogen related side effects. (such as "bitch tits")

Hope I answered some of your questions.

FYI I am an Axiron user. I use 4 pumps per day. On 2 pumps per day my test level was mid 300s, 4 pumps gets me to the low 800s.

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## tblues

Thanks man..

I appreciate the welcome. 

This is my 12th day on 2 pumps and I can say that just today I saw maybe more energy in the morning that I immediately used for doing a little exercise. Might be working or might be just a good morning. 

Anyways, I am a little concerned about what I would do if I didn't have insurance. Because I am moving to Miami and won't be paying for cobra. What is a cheaper alternative and what would I be paying? As an example?

Once you are in it for a while, can you just stop it or you have to ease out? and will you lose all the muscle you gained on TRT if you aren't on it anymore?

Thanks!!

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## xcraider37

> Thanks man..
> 
> I appreciate the welcome.
> 
> This is my 12th day on 2 pumps and I can say that just today I saw maybe more energy in the morning that I immediately used for doing a little exercise. Might be working or might be just a good morning.
> 
> Anyways, I am a little concerned about what I would do if I didn't have insurance. Because I am moving to Miami and won't be paying for cobra. What is a cheaper alternative and what would I be paying? As an example?
> 
> Once you are in it for a while, can you just stop it or you have to ease out? and will you lose all the muscle you gained on TRT if you aren't on it anymore?
> ...


If you stop trt you will be back to your original low t numbers or more than likely worse. TRT is a lifelong commitment. On 60mgs per day of axiron I wouldnt expect any great muscle gains, your probably only getting as high as 400 to 500 and that would be your high for the day then you start to drop until you reapply in the morning.

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## tblues

Fact is that my T leveles dropped dramatically after my GF pleaded her case about becoming vegan and both stopped eating any meat, eggs, bad fats, etc... my cholesterol levels were too low and the doctor thinks my T levels dropped due to low levels of cholesterol. So if there is no underlying issue other than diet to explain my low t levels, I would think my body would go back to normal if I stop TRT and start eating a favorable diet. I do not want to get on this for life, hope to get over this bad moment in life to go back to old self. If only 60mg of Axiron is a commitment for life, then all you guys who do this solely for muscle gain are dependent on TRT to function normally? this might be more than what I want to sing up for really.  :Frown:

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## xcraider37

> Fact is that my T leveles dropped dramatically after my GF pleaded her case about becoming vegan and both stopped eating any meat, eggs, bad fats, etc... my cholesterol levels were too low and the doctor thinks my T levels dropped due to low levels of cholesterol. So if there is no underlying issue other than diet to explain my low t levels, I would think my body would go back to normal if I stop TRT and start eating a favorable diet. I do not want to get on this for life, hope to get over this bad moment in life to go back to old self. If only 60mg of Axiron is a commitment for life, then all you guys who do this solely for muscle gain are dependent on TRT to function normally? this might be more than what I want to sing up for really.


I suggest you get off trt ASAP.

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## tblues

> I suggest you get off trt ASAP.


you are implying that those who use TRT to bulk up at the gym, once they start using T they will have to be on it forever. That doesn't sound right. 

So, if that is the case, what type of steroid are all of the super big guys using?

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## powerlifterty16

i always get confused myself at the people who say trt is for life. I think that is mainly said to discourage people looking to use it for steroid cycles. Trt does 2 main things, shut your balls off, and suppresses lh and fh production. These functions can be regained with some effort after trt....so as far as i know it isnt for life.


> you are implying that those who use TRT to bulk up at the gym, once they start using T they will have to be on it forever. That doesn't sound right. 
> 
> So, if that is the case, what type of steroid are all of the super big guys using?

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## xcraider37

> you are implying that those who use TRT to bulk up at the gym, once they start using T they will have to be on it forever. That doesn't sound right.
> 
> So, if that is the case, what type of steroid are all of the super big guys using?


lol, what your talking about is getting to anabolic levels, you may use the same testosterone , but a cycle would maybe consist of 500mgs, while being on trt is more than likely 100mgs per week or less and the plan would be for life since most of us on this site are difficient in our natural production, I suggest you read some of the stickys on the top of the forum page.

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## xcraider37

> i always get confused myself at the people who say trt is for life. I think that is mainly said to discourage people looking to use it for steroid cycles. Trt does 2 main things, shut your balls off, and suppresses lh and fh production. These functions can be regained with some effort after trt....so as far as i know it isnt for life.


You could obviously recover your old test. levels, and restore your lh and fsh, but most of us would go back to being in the low range of testosterone . Why the he'll would you ever want to start a trt program and then go back to being low again? Hope this clears up your confusion. Seems you both need to do some research.

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## powerlifterty16

xcat, i know that..but im just saying it isnt a death sentence to quit. Some people dont even have that low of levels when they go on


> You could obviously recover your old test. levels, and restore your lh and fsh, but most of us would go back to being in the low range of testosterone. Why the he'll would you ever want to start a trt program and then go back to being low again? Hope this clears up your confusion. Seems you both need to do some research.

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## xcraider37

> xcat, i know that..but im just saying it isnt a death sentence to quit. Some people dont even have that low of levels when they go on


I can agree with that also, but I think the OP is confused with a cycle and being on trt.

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## tblues

> I can agree with that also, but I think the OP is confused with a cycle and being on trt.


Yep..I did some reading and I was thinking about a cycle.
Let me change the question.

1) let's suppose that I have normal T levels for my age. Can I use Axiron to induce the anabolic levels to do a short cycle and then stop, recover, and repeat. If so, how much Axiron should be used daily to bring me to what level for undisputed gains? I know this is broad, but a general idea would suffice. 

2) How can I bring my levels up to normal for my age (34) WITHOUT Axiron?

3) If I use Axiron to get me out of this rough patch (mental and phisical) for a couple of months, while I implement the necessary changes to diet, exercise, etc to increase my T level back to normal, would I be hurting myself? 
I mean, using Axiron for a short period "as prescribed as HRT", would it shut down my ability to recover or even worse create some serious irreversible damage (enlarged prostate, losing head hair, bitch tits)?

I certainly do not want to go down the path of no return, as you say, "for life" being this young. 

I Appreciate your comments!

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## system admin

A lot of those topical testosterone treatment do NOT work well at all at increasing your testosterone levels to an optimal level. TRT is a life long treatment and is not meant for cycling on and off. It is best to keep your testosterone levels optimal and steady all year long. Your body will show positive signs for muscle gain and fat loss, but more importantly, you will feel so much better than before you were on. With a test level of even 350, you are way low for a 34 year old and I would suggest talking to your doctor as to why your levels DROPPED after taking the Axiron. The absorption of topical testosterone levels are really bad for a LOT of people and the most effective way is by injection. 

As you mentioned, you are way to young to live your life with low testosterone symptoms. Find some good help by doctors who know what they are doing and the difference will be life changing. TRT is an art and once you get all of your levels in sync, you will be feeling terrific. Get with your doctor and let us know what he thinks about your situation. Does not sound like its the right treatment for you or you need him to adjust your protocol. Only way to know is to talk to your doc and ask him some well thought out questions.

Bc

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## tblues

> A lot of those topical testosterone treatment do NOT work well at all at increasing your testosterone levels to an optimal level. TRT is a life long treatment and is not meant for cycling on and off. It is best to keep your testosterone levels optimal and steady all year long. Your body will show positive signs for muscle gain and fat loss, but more importantly, you will feel so much better than before you were on. With a test level of even 350, you are way low for a 34 year old and I would suggest talking to your doctor as to why your levels DROPPED after taking the Axiron. The absorption of topical testosterone levels are really bad for a LOT of people and the most effective way is by injection. 
> 
> As you mentioned, you are way to young to live your life with low testosterone symptoms. Find some good help by doctors who know what they are doing and the difference will be life changing. TRT is an art and once you get all of your levels in sync, you will be feeling terrific. Get with your doctor and let us know what he thinks about your situation. Does not sound like its the right treatment for you or you need him to adjust your protocol. Only way to know is to talk to your doc and ask him some well thought out questions.
> 
> Bc


thanks for the insight. 

Just to clarify, my levels were that low before starting Axiron. Now I have to come back in a couple of weeks to see what my levels get to ON Axiron. This will be my first test after taking Axiron. 

Of course I will ask my doctor as soon as I see him, about coming off TRT and regaining my levels naturally. 

But I can't ask him if I can use axiron solely for muscle gains. I don't think he will take that lightly. I'm thinking. 

The other issue is that he is a primary care doc, and I have a feeling that he is not an expert in TRT. So that is my concern, that maybe I should have tried another way to get my levels up before starting the Axiron. 

I get from your post that Axiron shouldn't be used to cycle. But If I had normal levels, wouldn't adding Axiron take me even higher if I apply double the suggested dose for TRT? Maybe it won't be as strong and efficient as an injection, but wouldn't it still be helpful to get to higher levels?

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## xcraider37

> thanks for the insight.
> 
> Just to clarify, my levels were that low before starting Axiron. Now I have to come back in a couple of weeks to see what my levels get to ON Axiron. This will be my first test after taking Axiron.
> 
> Of course I will ask my doctor as soon as I see him, about coming off TRT and regaining my levels naturally.
> 
> But I can't ask him if I can use axiron solely for muscle gains. I don't think he will take that lightly. I'm thinking.
> 
> The other issue is that he is a primary care doc, and I have a feeling that he is not an expert in TRT. So that is my concern, that maybe I should have tried another way to get my levels up before starting the Axiron.
> ...


Your gonna have to rub on a ton of Axiron for it to be considered a cycle, not recommended my friend. So no you can't cycle it, would cost you a fortune anyways.

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## xcraider37

> thanks for the insight.
> 
> Just to clarify, my levels were that low before starting Axiron. Now I have to come back in a couple of weeks to see what my levels get to ON Axiron. This will be my first test after taking Axiron.
> 
> Of course I will ask my doctor as soon as I see him, about coming off TRT and regaining my levels naturally.
> 
> But I can't ask him if I can use axiron solely for muscle gains. I don't think he will take that lightly. I'm thinking.
> 
> The other issue is that he is a primary care doc, and I have a feeling that he is not an expert in TRT. So that is my concern, that maybe I should have tried another way to get my levels up before starting the Axiron.
> ...


One thing your missing is when you inject or rub on testosterone it will shutdown your natural production, so if you had normal levels it would not increase that level, it's called testosterone replacement for a reason, it is not a supplement.

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## tblues

> One thing your missing is when you inject or rub on testosterone it will shutdown your natural production, so if you had normal levels it would not increase that level, it's called testosterone replacement for a reason, it is not a supplement.


that's a good point. I thought It would add to it. 
So, what are these guys injecting at the gym? and are they shutting down their natural T when they do these cycles?

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## roxer

> Fact is that my T levels dropped dramatically after my GF pleaded her case about becoming vegan and both stopped eating any meat, eggs, bad fats, etc... my cholesterol levels were too low and the doctor thinks my T levels dropped due to low levels of cholesterol...


I had sort of the same problem - gained too much weight (274lbs) and then went on a Cheerios diet and running for a year to lose 100lbs. I maintained that for quite a while, say three years, trying to tone up and slim down not eating very much fat. By the time I was 45, I was hosed. I know for a fact that it damaged me, but the doc refused to believe it. I tested at 200 and then 300 when I first started. I tried to do a restart with Clomid, but the best I could get after 6 months was 300. So, it is for life... Don't go down this road unless you have to.

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