# STEROIDS FORUM > HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY- Low T, Anti-Aging >  Hmmm What about the Wife?

## streeter

Well since this is not just the HRT/TRT part of the forum and it's also a wellness section let me ask this here.

Since I started HRT my wife has been completely in the loop as to what I take and how much. She was always curious about what I was taken. When I told her I took Vitamin B12 injections she asked about them.

Now understand we are both over 45 years old and go to the gym together so when I told her they give me an energy boost and help lose weight she asked for one.

So I have given her one injection. She loved it and wants weekly ones now. Now I do not want to give her anything that could hurt her health so let me ask you guys a few questions one before I give her any other injections I guess she should clear it with her doctor?? or is B12 safe enough to not worry about if it's only weekly injections 1ml.

Second question is there anything else that I can look into for her to give her an edge in the gym and feel better without doing anything that could hurt her health? I am so informed on my own HRT protocol but I really don't know what is available to women.

I asked her to go to her Doc and get blood work for all her hormone levels so we could see if she was deficient in anything. Her Doctor said he wouldn't do any blood work until after she went through menopause which she hasn't even started yet. What kind of quackery is that?? Or is he right?

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## lifeforce0019

Hello Streeter. Very thoughtful of you to think of the little lady! You know what they say, a happy wife is a happy life! Wish I had learned that before my divorce!  :Smilie:  At any rate, I digress!

I am sure Slimmerme will be along with some good advice for your wife!

Until then I recommend wine and warm oil!

 :Cool:

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## Termin8r27

Yes, you are hearing the same old diatribe from the 'standard' medical community - they won't address anything with women unless there is a severe abnormality or they go through menopause. Even then the regular MD will most likely only prescribe an Estrogen/Progesterone mix and never HGH, Testosterone or anything else that plummets after menopause.

FWIW my wife has witnessed the same things with me as well. She's witnessed my transformation and it's brought out some discussions/findings about her as well. We're working with my AA Clinic to get her blood drawn, but we believe getting on some kind of treatment will be beneficial. She's always battled fatigue and mild anxiety her whole life. After having two kids she's really seen her hormones go more erratic and the fatigue, anxiety and libido issues have gotten worse. I don't find too much women on the AA forums so we'll be sure to post her progress and maybe get her to join up as well.

As far as the B12, it's always good to get a blood workup to see where someone's at, but B12 injections are very common for exactly what you're doing and it's very hard to get to toxic levels and even then, the side effects are pretty mild.

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## funkymonk

Doc won't draw blood? Why not do it on your own thru private md . com?

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## SlimmerMe

Hi! Hope I can help!
If your wife iis curious and wants to see were she stands, then get some BW done to find out as suggested above.
Also, is she on birth control? This could make a BIG difference.
And once she gets her BW then post the results here and get some feedback. And at that point, hopefully PPC will be around to chime in. She is really the expert in this. 

Like the above post said, just go to Private md....They are fast and if you answer a 2 second questionnaire you will get 15% off. Get her an entire Female hormone panel. 

I bet at 45 your wife would love to get a handle on all of this before she starts to lose so many of her hormones. 

Has she read any books? Suzanne Somers "Breakthrough" is excellent since Somers interviews many other docs in the book who are cutting edge. Plus "Natural Superwoman" by Dr. Uzzi Reiss and he has another one "Natural Hormones" ( not sure of this title since do not have in front of me) and also anything by Dr. Daved Rosensweet who I have talked to 2x's on the phone this past month.

Getting your wife proactive now is SO SO important!!! She is lucky to have you to help her get started. 
And also tell her the horror stories which were rampant and all over the place were all about the horse urine hormones. Now women are on bio-identical hormones. BIG difference. 

Get the lab work done and we can go from there. And by then maybe PPC will be back!

ps: I have taken b12 shots more than once a week....no problem. But we all react differently to things.

pss: this warms my heart when I see a man want to help his lady out! Remember...we have so many other hormones and it is a delicate dance. Like S. Somers says, "throw a little testosterone at a man and he is happy!"

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## streeter

Well I guess Blood Work is the next thing to get done. I am going to have her read this thread and see if she wants to get it done. I don't know why she wouldn't. Also no she is not on birth control I was snipped many many moons ago and she doesn't need it. She just turned 47 so I think Blood work is in order to see what we can do to help her out so I will keep everyone posted once we get that done.

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## SlimmerMe

If for any other reason to get a good baseline for her current age and then see the difference later on should she decide to hold off for awhile.

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## layeazy

What about the Anavar the steroid ? I have read its quite popular with women, also i dont see a problem with the B12 injections they might give her a psychological edge in her workout routines lol...

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## dosXX

Hey Street what is your wife's goal I mean is she trying to loose some weight and gain more energy like what you're experiencing or something else?

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## boosted75

my doc has me on trt test c...my wife seen how much energy it gave me and sex drive so she asked our doc and she gets a test shot now too, 1cc=50mg testc and 2mg estrodal once a month.... after the secound month it was on. i thought i was living in a porno movie. her sex drive went from nothang, 1 time every 2 weeks to every day and weekends 2 or 3 times day. and will do just about anythang now. i never seen nothang like it.

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## Termin8r27

> my doc has me on trt test c...my wife seen how much energy it gave me and sex drive so she asked our doc and she gets a test shot now too, 1cc=50mg testc and 2mg estrodal once a month.... after the secound month it was on. i thought i was living in a porno movie. her sex drive went from nothang, 1 time every 2 weeks to every day and weekends 2 or 3 times day. and will do just about anythang now. i never seen nothang like it.


LOL! Sorry, that pretty funny and I guess...awesome?

How old are you and your wife if you don't mind me asking? Since she's only getting one shot per month, does she see a drop in weeks 3-4?

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## boosted75

> LOL! Sorry, that pretty funny and I guess...awesome?
> 
> How old are you and your wife if you don't mind me asking? Since she's only getting one shot per month, does she see a drop in weeks 3-4?


im 35 she's 36... and it is awesome, it does wear off by the third week. she was tired and sleepy all the time with no energy, it realy made a big differance in our life.

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## Termin8r27

> im 35 she's 36... and it is awesome, it does wear off by the third week. she was tired and sleepy all the time with no energy, it realy made a big differance in our life.


You guys are about the same age as us and my wife has the same symptoms, so that's really good to hear. My wife is getting her bloodwork done this Wednesday and we plan on getting her on therapy as well. I'd ask if they could split the dose to at least an injection every other week, Test Cyp and Estrogen will be waning after week 2.

That's awesome though!

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## flatscat

> my doc has me on trt test c...my wife seen how much energy it gave me and sex drive so she asked our doc and she gets a test shot now too, 1cc=50mg testc and 2mg estrodal once a month.... after the secound month it was on. i thought i was living in a porno movie. her sex drive went from nothang, 1 time every 2 weeks to every day and weekends 2 or 3 times day. and will do just about anythang now. i never seen nothang like it.



Welcome, but...
No pics, no cred!

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## streeter

> my doc has me on trt test c...my wife seen how much energy it gave me and sex drive so she asked our doc and she gets a test shot now too, 1cc=50mg testc and 2mg estrodal once a month.... after the secound month it was on. i thought i was living in a porno movie. her sex drive went from nothang, 1 time every 2 weeks to every day and weekends 2 or 3 times day. and will do just about anythang now. i never seen nothang like it.


Holy Crap!! I was procrastinating but after reading your post I paid for it today and went to local Lab and got her BW done. We get the results in 72 hours. I hope I can get her on the same thing with the same results LOL

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## JohnnyVegas

All of a sudden I am more interested in getting my wife interested in getting her hormones checked.  :Smilie:

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## SlimmerMe

I am seeing a trend starting here....GOODY GOODY GOODY!

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## streeter

Well we will get the results in 72 hours. So today I started researching women and their hormones. OMG I thought us guys were complicated our crap is easy compared to the complications with women and their hormones. I am a little intimidated by it because I know the military Doctors around here don't even want to see her for anything until after menopause so I feel like I have to figure it out on my own. I have read that sometimes even BW doesn't tell you much it all comes down to symptoms.

So let me ask a few questions to the Women here that might know. If she is on the low side and she tries 50mg injection and some estrogen replacement is it like us guys where our systems natural production shuts down? If she wanted to stop after the first injection would there be any PCT or sides from just one injection to see if it made her feel better?

Once I get the BW I really wish I had a open minded physician to take it to I suppose I could show it to the same on-line HRT clinic I go through but I am not gullible enough to know they are into making money so they will be biased I am sure but maybe at least they could suggest an amount to take. I suppose I am jumping the gun since I haven't got the BW back yet but It doesn't hurt to start asking questions I suppose.

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## streeter

I just read this directly from my HRT clinics web site. I read it to my wife and her reply was I HAVE ALL THAT!

Menopause means that a natural stop in a woman's menstrual cycle and fertility has occurred. This happens when a woman's ovary stops producing the hormones estrogen and progesterone usually between the ages 40 and 55. Although menopause itself is constituted by a woman's last period, symptoms can begin several years before that. T This stage is called peri-menopause. While the end of menstruation and fertility are inevitable, only a small number of women report that they do not experience some of the more common, uncomfortable symptoms such as: hot flashes, night sweats, trouble sleeping through the night and mood changes.

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## Termin8r27

Streeter, you say your wife says she has all of that - even cessation of her period/menstrual cycle? Obviously if that's the case then she has gone through menopause, but I'm thinking you mean everything outside of the cessation of her period.

My wife has all of that as well. She's had the symptoms for years and they've gotten much worse over the last couple. You are correct in that 'modern doctors' and medicine don't support doing anything for women until they hit menopause. There is a term that is becoming more common now though that is peri-menopause. Women's hormones are definitely more complex than ours and you really have to dial it in and that's why its very important to find a Dr. and Clinic that knows what they are doing. SlimmerMe suggested some information for me and my wife and it has been EXTREMELY helpeful => check out Suzanne Sommer's site and some of her books. My wife and I are reading 'Breakthrough' right now and it's awesome stuff.

My wife literally just got back from getting her blood drawn and we should have results back next week, so it will be interesting to compare results and get her going on therapy.

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## SlimmerMe

Something to read. This is a thread where I think PPC knows more than anyone around here as far as women's wellness.
Hopefully she will return soon. Her post are solid and very informative.


http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t=#post5288579

and here is a steller thread started by PPC....read post #8 re: injecting test for women

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-mental-health

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## PPC

> im 35 she's 36... and it is awesome, it does wear off by the third week. she was tired and sleepy all the time with no energy, it realy made a big differance in our life.


My protocol as a female injecting T has been to use two small injections per week of 4mg of T = a total of 8mg. That is only 2 units on my 1ml insulin syringe...looking at that insignificant amount of oil, one thinks...'how the heck can that little bit make a difference?' ...Oh but it does.

Like with male T therapy, it is important to avoid the big spike and then drop off that large injections create. With 1-2 injections per week there will not be that slump toward the end. Also, the initial T spike from a 50 mg injection may aromataze into quite of estrogen. That can either be good or bad for a womand depending on where her E 2 is at, but it's best to avoid it jumping all over the place.

I had to reduce my T shots from 10mg per week due to hyper sexual feelings. A lower dose was more managable. Also...watch for acne on the face...aggressive behavior...snappiness....a more combative personality...all of those sides occured in my case.

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## streeter

> Streeter, you say your wife says she has all of that - even cessation of her period/menstrual cycle? Obviously if that's the case then she has gone through menopause, but I'm thinking you mean everything outside of the cessation of her period.
> 
> My wife has all of that as well. She's had the symptoms for years and they've gotten much worse over the last couple. You are correct in that 'modern doctors' and medicine don't support doing anything for women until they hit menopause. There is a term that is becoming more common now though that is peri-menopause. Women's hormones are definitely more complex than ours and you really have to dial it in and that's why its very important to find a Dr. and Clinic that knows what they are doing. SlimmerMe suggested some information for me and my wife and it has been EXTREMELY helpeful => check out Suzanne Sommer's site and some of her books. My wife and I are reading 'Breakthrough' right now and it's awesome stuff.
> 
> My wife literally just got back from getting her blood drawn and we should have results back next week, so it will be interesting to compare results and get her going on therapy.


Yes you are correct she was talking about the symptoms. She has not entered menopause yet. Sorry so short I got her results back tonight and I am gonna post them here in a few minutes

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## streeter

> My protocol as a female injecting T has been to use two small injections per week of 4mg of T = a total of 8mg. That is only 2 units on my 1ml insulin syringe...looking at that insignificant amount of oil, one thinks...'how the heck can that little bit make a difference?' ...Oh but it does.
> 
> Like with male T therapy, it is important to avoid the big spike and then drop off that large injections create. With 1-2 injections per week there will not be that slump toward the end. Also, the initial T spike from a 50 mg injection may aromataze into quite of estrogen. That can either be good or bad for a womand depending on where her E 2 is at, but it's best to avoid it jumping all over the place.
> 
> I had to reduce my T shots from 10mg per week due to hyper sexual feelings. A lower dose was more managable. Also...watch for acne on the face...aggressive behavior...snappiness....a more combative personality...all of those sides occured in my case.


Hmmm quick question then since your using such a small amount and you mention a diabetic needle do you still inject intramuscular or do you just go subq since its so small an amount. By the way got her results back gonna post them in a minute.

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## streeter

Crap the PDF file is DRM protected pdf file I cant copy and paste from it. There is so much info on it I want to include it all but I don't want to post the actual PDF since it has her name and everything else on it. I think I am going to have to screen capture it as an image and cut out the privacy stuff and post it as an image. any other suggestions?

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## streeter

Hope this is viewable. The BW was done on day 4 of her menstrual cycle if it has any bearing on the results. After reading about the diffrent cycles let me be clear she was on day 4 of her period.

http://s1230.photobucket.com/albums/...rent=BWone.jpg
http://s1230.photobucket.com/albums/...nt=BWthree.jpg
http://s1230.photobucket.com/albums/...rent=BWtwo.jpg

Let me know if you can see the images. If not I will try another way to post them

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## PPC

I was able to view her blood work. Your wife has elevated FSH -the sign that she has entered peri menoapuse. That simply means her follicule stimulating hormone has starting to rev. Her body senses that her ovaries do not have much spark left in them, so it presses the acclerator down harder on the FSH pedal to try to make the ovaries work harder. It's like a vehicle with no gas in the tank, but the acclerator's down to the floor trying to make it go. This doesn't actually work but the body still tries, regardless, it will do anything it can to try to mantain the ability to procreate.

As your wife enters menoapuse FSH will just get higher and higher. But that's the way of things.

Your poor wife, she can't feel good. Her estrogen is only 26. Most menopausal women have E2 less than thirty so even though your wife hasn't officially entered menoapuse yet, her E2 has dropped out. Estrogen enables good mood function, a healthy lubricated vagina, plump skin, a clear mind...the list goes on and on.....she needs her estogen back in the form of a bioidentical cream. It takes trial and error to find the right dose but once things are dialed in much health can be restored.

Even though her blood work was taken on day 4, which is one of the lowest times for estrogen production in a female cycle, a healthy premenopausal women will still have E levels above 80. Much less than that and women start to feel pretty awful. Less than fifty....that's when the real problems arise, like hot flashes, pain during sex, brain fog, uninspired breasts etc.

Her T....I just see the total but it is sadly lacking. I thought mine was horribly low in the low twenties with a free level of 0.5. Does your wife have much libido left? Is she lacking in energy...confidence? She needs T!!!!! She will feel much better with levels from 40-60, but she'll need to address her estrogen levels at the same time. Raising T with low E will not help libido but simply cause aggression and other unwanted side effects. E is the foundation that needs to be built on. 

I hope you can find a doctor who knows how to do this. They're around.

I did not see a progesterone level. I assume it is low too. If your wife starts to use any form of estrogen she will also need to use progesterone to combat the proliferative effect E has on the breasts and uterus. Also, progesterone calms the body, helps with water retention and swims downstream into cortisol which provides badly needed energy.

Good luck to you and your wife. You are on the right track to helping her and much can be turned around here.

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## APIs

Wow, great stuff! Have to keep this info on-hand for the fiance! Thanks for posting everyone!

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## Termin8r27

Awesome stuff PPC and Streeter! I've sent this off to my wife along with some other threads with PPC and SlimmerMe. We get my wife's bloodwork back next week, so I'll post it up in this thread as well.

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## streeter

Wow Thank You! I suspected her levels were off but I did not know just how much. I have contacted the same HRT clinic I go through about her and I am waiting for an email back. If anyone wants to PM me any good clinics I can go through please do. I am near Dallas TX and my HRT clinic is one of those ones in Florida so if I can find one close to home it would be great.

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## JohnnyVegas

This is great info. My wife (32 years old) recently stopped birth control and her sex drive is up. Unfortunately, she is now only having a period once every two months. Women are complicated! She will have her hormones checked soon. She is more comfortable with that now that I am so much better on TRT (I am over 40).

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## Termin8r27

> Wow Thank You! I suspected her levels were off but I did not know just how much. I have contacted the same HRT clinic I go through about her and I am waiting for an email back. If anyone wants to PM me any good clinics I can go through please do. I am near Dallas TX and my HRT clinic is one of those ones in Florida so if I can find one close to home it would be great.


I haven't been able to find any good and affordable one's in TX, so I'm like you and work with one based in FL. I've already informed them we'll be including my wife now too, they are just waiting on her results.

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## streeter

> I haven't been able to find any good and affordable one's in TX, so I'm like you and work with one based in FL. I've already informed them we'll be including my wife now too, they are just waiting on her results.


I sent you a PM

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## Termin8r27

> I sent you a PM


Replied

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## PPC

> I haven't been able to find any good and affordable one's in TX, so I'm like you and work with one based in FL. I've already informed them we'll be including my wife now too, they are just waiting on her results.


Interesting...I only have experience with working with local doctors. I wonder how Florida clinics deal with female hormonal issues, I assumed they only worked with males. It will be interesting to see what their methods are for tackling female problems. Keep us posted.

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## Termin8r27

> Interesting...I only have experience with working with local doctors. I wonder how Florida clinics deal with female hormonal issues, I assumed they only worked with males. It will be interesting to see what their methods are for tacking female problems. Keep us posted.


Absolutely! We haven't been able to talk details since they want to see her bloodwork first before making any assumptions, but from all of our talks they do work with a lot of female patients and are a major AA Clinic there.

Here in Austin there isn't much choice. I started working with one, and they are nice people, but they charge WAY too much for their services and medications and also tend to focus a lot on 'The HCG Diet' and other gimmicks. I won't say the name here as I believe I can't, but it's an affiliated group with the same name down here in Texas, but different Dr's at each location.

I also explored the other larger metropolitans (San Antonio, Houston, Dallas) and encountered the same affiliated group or similar 'style' clinics.

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## streeter

> Interesting...I only have experience with working with local doctors. I wonder how Florida clinics deal with female hormonal issues, I assumed they only worked with males. It will be interesting to see what their methods are for tackling female problems. Keep us posted.


PPC I just want to Thank you for all your help. You have been a true blessing to us. If you accept PM,s I can send you a list from my clinic of all the therapies they have available (and prices). I would love your opinion as to what you think she would do best on in-case they try to sell me something more expensive I really don't need. By the way they will treat her and they got her bloodwork already. I sent them the BW with your post about it  :Smilie:  (Just in case the doc needs a little help determining her needs) She has to do a over the phone consult with a doctor and I'm having to pay $250 for that but its one time fee.
Thanks again

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## streeter

Sorry somehow double posted

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## PPC

> PPC I just want to Thank you for all your help. You have been a true blessing to us. If you accept PM,s I can send you a list from my clinic of all the therapies they have available (and prices). I would love your opinion as to what you think she would do best on in-case they try to sell me something more expensive I really don't need. By the way they will treat her and they got her bloodwork already. I sent them the BW with your post about it  (Just in case the doc needs a little help determining her needs) She has to do a over the phone consult with a doctor and I'm having to pay $250 for that but its one time fee.
> Thanks again


Sure, pm me. There are very inexpensive ways to do female HRT. I would hate for you and your wife to have to spend more than neccessary. I'd be very interested to see their options.

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## Termin8r27

Ok, here are my Wife's results, got them back faster than I thought.
http://s1189.photobucket.com/albums/z430/Termin8r27/

This was taken at day 19 of her cycle, per the AA Clinic's suggestion/request, so she was in the Ovulation Phase.

It appears to me that she is on the low end of Testosterone and almost out of range on the bottom for Progesterone. Could her Estrogen be low as well since it's in the lower %50? What about DHEA? How does SHBG play in for women - same as men, it appears she's on the high side.

My wife is about to be 32, has had fatigue, and mild depression/anxiety for a long time and they've been getting worse after our two children. Her libido has really taken a dive over the past few years and we did try for a third child about 5 months ago and she had her 2nd miscarriage. We've decided more children might not be in the cards especially if she needs to get on hormone therapy.

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## PPC

> Ok, here are my Wife's results, got them back faster than I thought.
> http://s1189.photobucket.com/albums/z430/Termin8r27/
> 
> This was taken at day 19 of her cycle, per the AA Clinic's suggestion/request, so she was in the Ovulation Phase.
> 
> It appears to me that she is on the low end of Testosterone and almost out of range on the bottom for Progesterone. Could her Estrogen be low as well since it's in the lower %50? What about DHEA? How does SHBG play in for women - same as men, it appears she's on the high side.
> 
> My wife is about to be 32, has had fatigue, and mild depression/anxiety for a long time and they've been getting worse after our two children. Her libido has really taken a dive over the past few years and we did try for a third child about 5 months ago and she had her 2nd miscarriage. We've decided more children might not be in the cards especially if she needs to get on hormone therapy.


I'm confused about something. Women who are still having menstrual cycles are usually advised to get their blood work done between day 18-21. This is so they can catch the progesterone and estrogen peak in the luteal phase. Your wife did her blood work during this time...why are you calling it the ovulatory period? Did the clinic people tell you day 19 was part of the ovulation phase? I'm confused beccause how we interperate your wife's blood work is determind by what phase she was in.

Here's what Wiki says on the phases.

"The menstrual cycle can be divided into several different phases. The average length of each phase is shown below, the first three are related to changes in the lining of the uterus whereas the final three are related to processes occurring in the ovary:"

Name of phase Average start day
assuming a 28-day cycle Average end day: 

menstrual phase (menstruation) 1- 4 
proliferative phase (some sources include menstruation in this phase) 5- 13 
ovulatory phase (ovulation) 13- 16 
luteal phase (also known as secretory phase) 16- 28 
ischemic phase 27- 28 
follicular phase 1- 13 

-----------------------------------------------------------

Wiki is being generous in giving the ovulation phase until day 16 to be over. Most info I have read on the subject cuts ovulation off at day 15. Unless your wife was breast feeding (which delays ovulation,) I have to presume she was in the luteal phase. That wiki info was more detailed than most. Usually, the phases are just easily divided up into 3 parts: 

Follicular: days 1-13 
Ovulation: days 13-15, 
Luteal - days 15-28.

Yes, your wife's progesterone has bottomed out, therefore she has estrogen dominance. That doesn't mean she has too much estrogen (although her E doesn't seem low at all for the luteal period), it means her progesterone cannot balance out her estrogen. You mentioned anxiety, progesterone is a calming hormone, not enough and there will be anxiety...and raises Gaba. Anxiety and problems with miscarriage are certain signs the low progesterone is having negative consequences. Progesterone nourishes the uterine lining so it is able to sustain pregnancy. many women are advised to use natural progesterone from weeks 1-12 of pregnancy to help prevent miscarriage.

While the T level is not terrible....it's not great. I would have loved to see a free T result. I'm betting it would be low due to elevated SHBG. Has your wife ever been on the pill? I cannot figure the reason for the high SHBG otherwise - quite odd.

Again - as with Streeter's wife there is an elevated FSH. Your wife is only 32, so this is stumping me - especially since she still has adequate E levels. I'll be very interested in the doctor's comments on her blood work - low progesterone can often coincide with low cortisol and adrenal function since progesterone pours into the cortisol bucket to fill it up. Low cortisol can also often result in anxiety since adrenalin has to take over cortisol's role. Hmmmm....I'm not a Doc, I wish I could give you a more precise opinion.

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## Termin8r27

That is very helpful PPC! 
I guess I misspoke and didn't think through my initial comments... Her blood was drawn on day 19 and supposedly in the luteal phase, but my wife had been talking about 'ovulating' leading up to the test so I guess that was stuck in my head. But then I'm looking at her FSH, LH and Estrogen and her comments about Ovulating and it seems those are all WAY too high for the Luteal Phase and more inline with the Ovulatory Phase...?

Yes, she did take the Birth Control Pill ( a couple different kinds) over many years while she was a teenager before we met and in her early 20's when we got together, but she hasn't taken it since she was probably 22 or 23 if that makes a difference...?

My wife also says she's on a 31 Day cycle and not a 28 Day cycle so that definitely could mean she's ovulating late...all the data leads me to believe so too...

We're waiting on what the Dr. has to say as well...

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## PPC

> That is very helpful PPC! 
> I guess I misspoke and didn't think through my initial comments... Her blood was drawn on day 19 and supposedly in the luteal phase, but my wife had been talking about 'ovulating' leading up to the test so I guess that was stuck in my head. But then I'm looking at her FSH, LH and Estrogen and her comments about Ovulating and it seems those are all WAY too high for the Luteal Phase and more inline with the Ovulatory Phase...?
> 
> Yes, she did take the Birth Control Pill ( a couple different kinds) over many years while she was a teenager before we met and in her early 20's when we got together, but she hasn't taken it since she was probably 22 or 23 if that makes a difference...?
> 
> My wife also says she's on a 31 Day cycle and not a 28 Day cycle so that definitely could mean she's ovulating late...all the data leads me to believe so too...
> 
> We're waiting on what the Dr. has to say as well...


Yes, some of her hormones do look more in line with ovulation levels. 

But it's hard to imagine she would still be ovulating at day 19 - on her 31 day cycle it could have been day 16 or 17...possibly. I wonder if she is already having anovulatory cycles where sometimes eggs are not released so the estrogen hangs out there alone since there is no reason for the body to produce progesterone on such cycles. But...she seems so young for that.

I hope this doctor knows his stuff.

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## Termin8r27

> Yes, some of her hormones do look more in line with ovulation levels. 
> 
> But it's hard to imagine she would still be ovulating at day 19 - on her 31 day cycle it could have been day 16 or 17...possibly. I wonder if she is already having anovulatory cycles where sometimes eggs are not released so the estrogen hangs out there alone since there is no reason for the body to produce progesterone on such cycles. But...she seems so young for that.
> 
> I hope this doctor knows his stuff.


Yes, I do as well. If not, we'll find another one for sure. We've been reading Suzanne Sommers books and I've chatted with SlimmerMe and will pay to see one of those Dr's if we have to, to get the right Dr.

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## firefly2

Hi, this is Termin8r27's wife. I have registered and am very interested in finding out more about this subject and seeking advice. Thank you to all of you who are helping my husband and I. This is a very complex subject and it helps to talk to those women who have experience with this. I want to find a good doctor who is very experienced and has the time to devote to deciphering the blood test results. Thank you PPC for all of your insight and caring to help. :0)

Any advice is welcome by me.

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## PPC

> Hi, this is Termin8r27's wife. I have registered and am very interested in finding out more about this subject and seeking advice. Thank you to all of you who are helping my husband and I. This is a very complex subject and it helps to talk to those women who have experience with this. I want to find a good doctor who is very experienced and has the time to devote to deciphering the blood test results. Thank you PPC for all of your insight and caring to help. :0)
> 
> Any advice is welcome by me.


You guys live in Texas? I have a friend there who uses bioidentical hormones (in her 30's). She mentioned there are clinics called 'The Fem Center' in surrounding areas that deal with female hormonal issues and treat with natural hormones.

It would maybe help if you shared some of your symptoms with your cycles, health issues etc - yes it is a complex subject. The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know and the intricacies with regard to how all these hormones feed back on each other are mind reeling. If you don't want to hang it all out here you can pm me, no prob.

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## firefly2

I think i have to get to 25 posts to PM you. I will have to get aggresive with my posting I guess!

The main complaint I have in regards to how I feel is a complete lack of energy. I could sleep all day and I have a hard time sleeping at night and getting up in the morning. I find that right when I am about to start my mentrual cycle (like the day before or the day I start) I feel a little better and find my libido increase slightly. I have debilitating anxiety and foggy brain most of the time, it has gotten worse. I workout almost every day, with weights especially, I find this helps me feel better but it doesn't last through the day. My periods are pretty heavy and last about 8-9 days. My thinking is not clear and my memory is lacking. 

I just had a miscarriage on November 4th 2010, I was wondering if that could affect my FSH levels even now, maybe that is why they are so high. I went through a bad case of postpartum depression for two months after the miscarriage. I have felt a lot worse after this last pregnancy and miscarriage for some reason. I didn't seem to feel as bad after my 1st miscarriage which was before I had my son. But, I have felt these issues through out my 20's. 

Does this help? Thank you again for your input and advice. I was reading through your thread about birth control pills.

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## SlimmerMe

Welcome Firefly!!! Glad you decided to join. We need you.....

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## PPC

> I think i have to get to 25 posts to PM you. I will have to get aggresive with my posting I guess!
> 
> The main complaint I have in regards to how I feel is a complete lack of energy. I could sleep all day and I have a hard time sleeping at night and getting up in the morning. I find that right when I am about to start my mentrual cycle (like the day before or the day I start) I feel a little better and find my libido increase slightly. I have debilitating anxiety and foggy brain most of the time, it has gotten worse. I workout almost every day, with weights especially, I find this helps me feel better but it doesn't last through the day. My periods are pretty heavy and last about 8-9 days. My thinking is not clear and my memory is lacking. 
> 
> I just had a miscarriage on November 4th 2010, I was wondering if that could affect my FSH levels even now, maybe that is why they are so high. I went through a bad case of postpartum depression for two months after the miscarriage. I have felt a lot worse after this last pregnancy and miscarriage for some reason. I didn't seem to feel as bad after my 1st miscarriage which was before I had my son. But, I have felt these issues through out my 20's. 
> 
> Does this help? Thank you again for your input and advice. I was reading through your thread about birth control pills.


So sorry about the loss of your pregnancy. That's rough.

Your long periods are a sure sign of your progesterone deficiency. When my low progesterone was unadressed I had 8 day periods like that, lost a lot of blood and got low in iron. I need to go back and check your HGB levels. Sometimes, (in my case,) my uterine lining got very thick and grew fibroids and polpys. Hopefully you will get the hormones you need before that happens.

I really wonder about your adrenals since you mention you are so tired all day. Being unable to sleep usually means cortisol is low in morning and high at night. That's what happens before cortisol drops out and just becomes too low all the time. You can check it through a 4X saliva test through ZRT labs but it's a little pricey - I think $150 or there abouts.

I know weights are great for a sleek body but be careful about pushing yourself after your miscarraige. If you have low cortisol, hard workouts can really make things worse.

Take care. Let's hope you can get paired up with the right Doc for you and spring back from all this.

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## firefly2

I went to go see an anti aging doctor locally, who has a good reputation. 
We reviewed my BW and came to the following conclusions:

A.)Progesterone is too low (obviously)

B.)Testosterone is too low (but I had to go get another test done to check free T and waiting on those results)

C.)I have Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (This is shown by my FSH and LH levels, they are in a reverse ratio along with insulin resistance which was shown by BW, and I did develop gestational diabetes when pregnant with my son).

D.) According to my symptoms I will take a low dose of Thyroid hormone (not sure which one, my active T3 was not checked until yesterday, waiting on those results) 

E.) I may have adrenal fatigue (This is shown by the fact that I feel better when working out and crash afterwards, so he told me to lay off strenuous exercise for now and have to be careful with Thyroid hormones as to not exacerbate this if this is the case).

F.)I was told in December by an endocrinologist that I have Hashimoto's Disease based on TPO levels which were not much above range, AA doc said I do not have this.) 

G.) Also very low Vitamin D, which apparently most people have.

I get my hormones on Friday, I have ordered Progesterone and Thyroid for now. I am still interested in having more children so we will wait on the Testosterone.

Thank you for your help. I am very excited to start my regimen, and am looking forward to feeling better. It is very good to have support here and advice on this.

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## streeter

I am glad for you. I am trying to find a local Doctor that will take care of my wife and I. I am still with the clinic out of state and they just Raped me on prices for my medicine and my wife's. Together it was almost $500 I have to find a local Doctor and get my insurance to cover this. When I wasn't on HRT I was depressed then when I started HRT I felt great Now when I have to pay for it I get depressed. I can't win.

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## Termin8r27

> I am glad for you. I am trying to find a local Doctor that will take care of my wife and I. I am still with the clinic out of state and they just Raped me on prices for my medicine and my wife's. Together it was almost $500 I have to find a local Doctor and get my insurance to cover this. When I wasn't on HRT I was depressed then when I started HRT I felt great Now when I have to pay for it I get depressed. I can't win.


That's a bummer man and definitely know how that feels. I spend about $700 on average for 10 weeks just for me. Sometimes I spend more when I want to blast or increase my deca .

We decided to see if that local clinic I went to see months and months ago had an opening anytime soon while we were waiting on my clinic in FL. They had one open the next day and she really liked them and the Dr. I really like them too, just didn't like having to pay for the Dr's visits, but I may get on with them now that she is as well. Good thing besides actually being able to work with a Dr. in person is that he was a highly recognized OBGYN for 30 yrs and that they can also write orders for bloodwork and other things that insurance will cover.

My wife didn't mention this, but she also has an identical twin who has been having the same problems as her, but has been behind in researching and doing anything about it. However, she just went to see the same clinic this morning and will be getting on therapy as well, but most likely with Testosterone as well...so it will be interesting to see how they both react to treatments in general.

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## SlimmerMe

> I went to go see an anti aging doctor locally, who has a good reputation. 
> We reviewed my BW and came to the following conclusions:
> 
> A.)Progesterone is too low (obviously)
> 
> B.)Testosterone is too low (but I had to go get another test done to check free T and waiting on those results)
> 
> C.)I have Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (This is shown by my FSH and LH levels, they are in a reverse ratio along with insulin resistance which was shown by BW, and I did develop gestational diabetes when pregnant with my son).
> 
> ...


Hi!

Glad to see you have started your path.

I am curious as to your BW results. Could you please post them if you do not mind?

I too am TPO positive. My doc did not seem concerned. But there is now a whole new theory that thyroid meds will not take care of this but cutting out gluten will. I plan to get the book about this later this week. Just ordered it by Dr. Datis Kharrazian. So the jury is still out as to whether this is the case or not.

Will you be getting both t3 and t4 in your thyroid medication? I hope so.

Are you planning on taking the progesterone at night? to help sleep? 

Keep us posted!

Note: re: testosterone replacement ....from my experience, I was on 4-6mcgs compounded cream ED and all though I was on other things like dhea and E2/3 plus progesterone, I think the test cream made me a bit aggressive with the dose I took plus I had HORRIBLE acne.....so my suggestion is to start slow

Are you planning on continual dosing? or cycling? or do you know yet?

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## PPC

> I went to go see an anti aging doctor locally, who has a good reputation. 
> We reviewed my BW and came to the following conclusions:
> 
> A.)Progesterone is too low (obviously)
> 
> B.)Testosterone is too low (but I had to go get another test done to check free T and waiting on those results)
> 
> C.)I have Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (This is shown by my FSH and LH levels, they are in a reverse ratio along with insulin resistance which was shown by BW, and I did develop gestational diabetes when pregnant with my son).
> 
> ...


Very interesting...I wondered about PCOS...but usually women with this condition will have highly elevated levels of Testosterone not low levels as you seem to have. Did the doctor mention that? Are they interested in doing an ultra sound of your ovaries to look for the line of cysts?

PCOS often contributes to issues with fertility, hopefully the progesterone will allow you to get pregnant again.

Like Slimmerme, I am interested in what form and the dose of progesterone that will be prescribed to you.

The very important thing with PCOS is to stay with a low carb diet as you know it puts you into an insulin resistant state.

I am so glad you are promptly getting the help you need. That's awesome.

Look into pregnenolone cream for your possible adrenal fatigue. I think physical activity is real important (as you obviously do too,) I think the key is to keep it less than twenty minutes for people with major adrenal issues. Cortisol starts to turn on after 30-45 minutes for some people.

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## PPC

> I am glad for you. I am trying to find a local Doctor that will take care of my wife and I. I am still with the clinic out of state and they just Raped me on prices for my medicine and my wife's. Together it was almost $500 I have to find a local Doctor and get my insurance to cover this. When I wasn't on HRT I was depressed then when I started HRT I felt great Now when I have to pay for it I get depressed. I can't win.


Streeter, did you call compounding pharmacists in your area and ask for the name of doctors that prescribe hormones? That is how I found our Doc.

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## SlimmerMe

> Streeter, did you call compounding pharmacists in your area and ask for the name of doctors that prescribe hormones? That is how I found our Doc.


ditto.....they know who the players are and who to recommend and I found that compounding pharmacist love to talk and share info and just from the tone of their voice, you can tell which docs they think are legit and which ones they think are charlatans

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## firefly2

I wanted to add that my cortisol levels were normal. Thankful for that. I get my hormones tomorrow, I am not sure what the dose is for the thyroid or progesterone although I know I am to take the progesterone pill once in the morning and once before bed. He said I can take it every day or cycle it, he told me to start by trial and error, to start figuring out if I feel better taking it every day or just during normal cycling. 

He said he was going to start me out on a very low dose of thyroid to see how I feel. He said if I have adrenal fatigue I will feel worse and we will see where to go from there. 

I am also taking Kavinace which is really helping already after only 2 days to help with anxiety and sleeping.

I have high insulin resistance as shown by BW, which is probably why I got gestational diabetes, but I do not have any problems with my ovaries as I just had them checked with an ultrasound in November due to pregnancy/miscarriage. But my fasting blood sugar was 90, normal. 

I think I just caught the PCOS quickly so now I am in prevention care. 

At least now I know why I couldn't put on as much muscle as I would have liked for my Figure competition back in August. And why I couldn't lose the fat on my hips and abs. Also my rear end just would not respond to the weightlifting. It was really frustrating. 

My husband, Termin8r27, posted my BW on this thread, but the BW from the endo. with my TPO levels need to be scanned in first.

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## PPC

> I wanted to add that my cortisol levels were normal. Thankful for that. I get my hormones tomorrow, I am not sure what the dose is for the thyroid or progesterone although I know I am to take the progesterone pill once in the morning and once before bed. He said I can take it every day or cycle it, he told me to start by trial and error, to start figuring out if I feel better taking it every day or just during normal cycling. 
> .


If it were me, I would use the progesterone from day 14 of my cycle, onward until day 26...or right through until flow starts. That follows the normal rise of progesterone in the menstrual cycle.

In some women, progesterone taken in the morning can make one feel very sleepy - due to the Gaba effect....depends on dosage but since you say pill....I imagine it is 100mg. Some have to only use it at night....that was certain in my case.

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## streeter

This is what the doctor prescribed for my wife. Any comments? She should get it in the next day or two.
Biest 2mg / Progest 4% / Pregnolone 4% / Testosterone 2% / DHEA 2.5% Cream 60

Yes I called the compounding pharmacy they gave me a list. I called a couple of them only one was promising. She is a alternative medicine doctor..female. Supposedly known nation wide. She charges $450 bucks for first visit and then 200 each visit afterwards she said after a few visits she would only need to be seen once a year but insurance doesn't cover the visits but will pick up the cost of the scripts. I think in the end it would just even out so I might think about it because I suppose in a very long run it might save some money but for now I will continue to just buy her script through my HRT in Florida

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## SlimmerMe

Steeter: Seems like a typical protocol....very similar to the one I was on except mine had higher doses which were too high for me....

When you get the compounded cream, let us know if it is all mixed up together or if any of it is separate....
plus I am assuming she is to take all of the above ED? instead of variable dosing? 

If everyday, I would start with lower clicks if it is a clicking vial and then see how she feels. If she has waited this long, then I suggest to ramp up simply to get a feel for how she feels. Plus keep a log. 

Also, if they have not told her where to apply the cream, I liked the inner forearm between the bend of the elbow to the wrist where I directly applied the cream and then rubbed it in all up and down my inner arm with my other wrist so as to not waste any plus to get some on the thin skin of the wrist which IMO is a great place to absorb. I also read somewhere that it is best to spread as opposed to rubbing over and over in the same place. Then air wave it dry a bit.

Keep us posted. And hope she starts feeling like a SUPERWOMAN!

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## SlimmerMe

Streeter: Question: could you find out if her protocol is in one dispenser and if so, could you ask the doc or pharmacist to separate the biest from the progesterone and the test? they will tell you it is more expensive to separate but I bet PPC will want it separate when she returns........my 02

if it is not too late....and if so, then perhaps for the next round if you decide you want to separate the hormones

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## streeter

It's too late this time to make changes but I will let you know how it comes when I get it. They want her to use it everyday. I read somewhere women should not take it during their monthly period does this sound correct to you?

They also told her to apply it on her inner thigh. I am worried about getting any of this on me since I am on TRT I don't want any of that raising my E2 levels so I am now thinking I have to be cautious about touching her and wait stay clear a few hours when she applies it does this sound paranoid?

Anyway once we get it I will let you know if it's a clicking tube or separate or what.

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## SlimmerMe

I don't think that amount of E will really effect you...maybe but I would not worry and could be wrong. It is not like Androgel applied to a male and then have contact with a female which is not good. 

Perhaps have her apply it when you will not be around for a couple of hours to make you feel better. She will feel horrible if you do not want to touch her after all of this~

A friend of mine applies to her inner thigh and she is fine with this. I just like the inner arm. Thinner skin. 

Remember this: all of this is new and she is another pioneer in all of this. This is one reason I suggest a log because it is hard to remember everything. Sleep patterns. Mood. Weight. Libido. Everything. And then later on when the doc questions her down the road, she can recall much better. Plus share her knowledge which is so needed on this.

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## streeter

Thanks so last question if after a few weeks if her libido doesn't recover then would you think maybe 4mg of my Test Cyp with her B12 injection weekly would help...Yes I ask purely of selfish reasons LOL

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## SlimmerMe

no last questions! 

since she has such low T maybe...but give it at least a couple months. I got acne on the cream and according to one of my girlfriends I had become aggressive ( I was told this after a cat fight no less).....
the DHEA will also raise her test levels

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## streeter

Sounds good I'll give it a couple of days...err J/K couple of months  :Smilie:

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## SlimmerMe

^^^ Whoa nelly!

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## firefly2

streeter: I am so glad your wife is getting the help she needs! I can't wait to hear a good report on how she is feeling. I bet she is excited :0)

I am feeling better after 4 days (today is the fifth day) I go in to my anti aging doctor today to go over how I feel. I am thinking on waiting on the third baby and just getting on Test. and DHEA right now as my libido is really low and my lean muscle mass is deteriorating. I am hoping that that will help me feel more normal. 

My identical twin sister got her results back. She has low estrogen, low DHEA, low testosterone (higher than mine though), her thyroid is very low (lower than mine), low progesterone, mild PCOS, and her fasting blood sugar was 106 (uh oh). And she is turning 32 years old like me in April. YIKES! I am more of a weighlifter than she is and I weigh less due to clean eating for competition. It will be interesting to see how our treatments compare as we are starting them at roughly the same time.

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## firefly2

Oh I wanted to add. I have been taking the progesterone pill (100mg) in the morning and at night. Yesterday I decided I would skip the morning pill and I felt noticeably worse during the day. More anxious, more tired, and depressed feeling. So I took one in the afternoon and I felt much better. I will just have to play with it and see how I feel after 2 cycles. 

The thyroid is definitely helping my energy levels. And I am sleeping much better with the Kavinace and Progesterone. I am getting up early and having (mostly) sustained energy throughout the day. I keep waiting for the energy crash throughout the day (like after I clean the bathroom or workout) and the crash does not come. I am so happy about this! Now I can clean, play with my kids, and get up in the morning with them and function like a normal person. This is only day 5 and I feel SO much better. Now I need to get on testosterone and DHEA to bring me up to optimum levels. I find out today what my free testosterone is, my total was 30. Of course my husband is determined for me to get on testosterone like yesterday :0)

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## SlimmerMe

Glad to hear this Firefly....you sound happy!

IMO:: Take it slow.... This allows you to see how your body reacts to each hormone plus helps a lot with tweaking. 

And when and if I start back up again, I will introduce slowly.....because I jumped right in with all the hormones all at once..... and never knew what hormone was making me feel like I was feeling.....

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## streeter

Well yesterday..Monday the wife and I went to the gym. When we got home there was a UPS sticker on our door, they tried to deliver but needed a signature so the paper said they would try again Tuesday.

It's freaking Tuesday and the entire town is snowed in roads are freaking Ice and everything is closed. My wife and my meds sit in a box somewhere at a UPS warehouse.

It doesn't get above freezing until Friday and this town is in TX we don't prepare well for snow. This Sucks!

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## streeter

^^^Thanks firefly2 you got a head start on us since we haven't got our meds yet. When the town melts and the UPS truck can get out we will let you know how she is feeling as she progresses.

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## PPC

> Oh I wanted to add. I have been taking the progesterone pill (100mg) in the morning and at night. Yesterday I decided I would skip the morning pill and I felt noticeably worse during the day. More anxious, more tired, and depressed feeling. So I took one in the afternoon and I felt much better. I will just have to play with it and see how I feel after 2 cycles. 
> 
> The thyroid is definitely helping my energy levels. And I am sleeping much better with the Kavinace and Progesterone. I am getting up early and having (mostly) sustained energy throughout the day. I keep waiting for the energy crash throughout the day (like after I clean the bathroom or workout) and the crash does not come. I am so happy about this! Now I can clean, play with my kids, and get up in the morning with them and function like a normal person. This is only day 5 and I feel SO much better. Now I need to get on testosterone and DHEA to bring me up to optimum levels. I find out today what my free testosterone is, my total was 30. Of course my husband is determined for me to get on testosterone like yesterday :0)


This is excellent. It sounds as if in your case, progesterone actually flows down stream into just the right amount of cortisol to keep up your energy. You're lucky, for many women it just makes them tired due to how their body metabolizes the hormone.

It took a couple of months atleast for my libido to jump up there so it's best not to expect an onvernight transformation when you start T. Strangely, my libido was never low even though I had low T levels (total in the 20's, free T at 0.5). But I found that once on T my sexual responses were faster, I got much better clitoral engorgement and many more sexual thoughts. In fact, maybe due to the way my brain is wired, I developed an almost insatiable sexual desire....now, I feel empathy for what it must be like as an eighteen year old male LOL. It got to the point where my husband couldn't possibly keep up. I had to cut back my dose...things were normalized then...we are all so different in our responses. My hypersexuality revealed itself at the same time as more of an aggressive personality and acne on my chin. Things to watch out for!

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## bp2000

What the hell...did the world end or something you guy's all of a sudden quit posting in this thread. Talking about the UPS man and all that stuff...then grasshoppers

A yearly update would be nice at least once a year...c'mon!

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## keep fightin

I'm with bp2000! you guys got my wife and I all excited! we are just getting her started on nhrt and this is such a great thread! look 3 explanation points already....

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## VMAAG

> Well I guess Blood Work is the next thing to get done. I am going to have her read this thread and see if she wants to get it done. I don't know why she wouldn't. Also no she is not on birth control I was snipped many many moons ago and she doesn't need it. She just turned 47 so I think Blood work is in order to see what we can do to help her out so I will keep everyone posted once we get that done.


BW is the first place to start to assess where she is at baseline. At 47 she is prime to start looking into hormone therapy. For women this would include estrogen (bi-est), progesterone, testosterone , DHEA-S and pregnenolone. She really wouldn't want to wait to assess her status because she can address small deficiencies now before things get worse and of course they (her hormones) will continue to decline and things will get worse. For most this is the normal aging process. If she wants to maintain her health, youful appearance and lean muscle tissue now is the time. Hope that hepls  :Smilie:

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## lovbyts

Reading all this has just convinced me I have been making the right choice all along, trade them in before they reach 35.  :Wink: 

Some good info here. Mine is only 31 but we still want to make sure to keep an eye on things so they dont get out of whack and now I know more what to look for.  :Smilie: 

Yeah she knows about the expiration date and gives me just as much sh*t. Mine expired 20 years ago. LOL

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## ktmsmith'swife

Hello, this is ktmsmith's wife and I am responding to PPC's post in regards to my levels as well as wondering about my own progress and what I might change and/or improve over what the doctor has done to date. I do think I would like my T levels to be a bit higher as the libido is not where I want it and I would really like to have more strength so that workouts are more effective and maybe someday I can have a toned body and not be so soft all over. I am 48 years old, 5'7" and weigh 137 lbs. My weight has alsways been pretty stable but I believe I have less muscle and more fat than in my younger years. I want that to change, I don't want to be tired or achy from old age and I am willing to do what it takes to feel good including the exercise and a well balanced diet . In 2010 I had an overy removed and I wonder about the effects of one less ovary. I had been experiencing occaisonal night sweats along with considerable moodiness-crying for no reason which is not me at all. These have been eliviated since begining BHRT. My first blood work results were in Nov. as follows:
DHEA-S 173.4
Estradiol 153.9
Progesterone 0.3
Free Test 1.0
Total Test 14
TSH 1.73
Free T3 3.0

I have been prescribed Armour Thyro 15mg once daily tablet, Testosterone 1/4 ml daily (cream), Progesterone 250 mg/daily tablet.

Bloodwork 2/18/12

DHEA-S 224.9 (up 51.5)
Estradiol 50.1 (down 123.3)
Progesterone 9.3 (up 9.0)
Free Test 1.7 (up 0.7)
Total Test - did not test this time?
TSH 0.74 (down 0.99)
Free T3 2.9 (down 0.10)

He did not change my scripts-said lets see what another 3 months does for your T. I was hoping for a stronger script for the T. The doc was more interested in asking my hubby if I was less bitchy now....I was never bitchy to begin with so no real good answer on that one but the doc is 76 years old and I think he believes most women get bitchy when hormones are out of whack....not the case with me..I did cry but I even hid that from the hubby till I was seriously concerned and wanted to see a doctor about it. He, of course was completely supportive as he always is and now we are both on track to being healthier and younger feeling. Any comments on what I should be looking for, tests I should have done and what I might expect will be much appreciated....thanks!
Hello and welcome. Nice to have you here.

You are correct to think the loss of your ovary may be related to some of your hormone loss. The weepiness and night sweats after your surgery are very common. Your ovaries make the majority of your testosterone and the first blood test result at 14 was extremely low, as was your Free Test . The loss of an ovary can have a negative hormonal impact on a woman at any age but having it removed in your mid to late forties exasperates things. You were wise to seek out bio identical hormone repla***ent.

I would love to know about what day of your cycle you had your first and second blood tests taken. That will tell us quite a bit about the state of each hormone tested. As you know, our hormones make big dips and climbs each month so test days give us more clues as to what is really happening. Currently, you are very low in estrogen. Even if this current test was taken during your period or before ovulation, 50 is a low result. It indicates a movement toward menopausal estrogen levels.

Why did your Doc think your estrogen number was too high in the first test ? If it was taken in the second part of your cycle ie your luteal phase, then it looked nice. Yes, your progesterone was terribly low and again it gives very strong clues that you may have had a cycle without the release of an egg, so...basically no progesterone. That's very common for women with only one ovary.

Your Testosterone levels have come up but female hormones are fickle and while it is good your testosterone is no longer so low, your new low estrogen could be detracting from a healthy libido. Women, first need a nice baseline of estrogen. That helps us feel feminine and keeps the vagina well lubricated and youthful. Testosterone is the next layer which fuels more carnal desire and heightens genital sensitivity. The two must go hand in hand. Testosterone without enough estrogen will usually just result in increased aggression. So there's a delicate dance here. You'll find it. It usually takes a while to get hormones back to levels that look good on paper but also make each unique women feel "right."

It also looks like you are not having an easy time getting your thyroid hormone levels optimized. He may need to up your dose slowly. If that causes heart palpitations you may need to take some supps to help you adrenal glands support your thyroid hormones better. Selenium, iodine and Vitamin C are the first few that come to mind.

I would make sure to get an FSH test next time. That tests your follicole stimulating hormone . If it is high then you know your body is pressing the accelerator very hard for your ovaries to work. That happens when menopause is near and the body wants the ovaries to do their thing but they just don't know how anymore.

I would talk to your doctor about getting a compounded script for estrogen, in the form of biest. You'll be needing it.

He is having you take quite a lot of progesterone. Most women cannot handle that much orally. Personally, it makes me feel drowsy and bloated at the doses you are taking. But each women is unique. Some women find a nightly dose of 200mg of progesterone calms anxiety and allows them to sleep. At present, your progesterone is dominant over your estrogen levels and trust me, that is not good for libido. YOu need progesterone but you just need it in levels enough to balance out your progesterone.

So you have made a start. You can stay the course and press for more tests and more scripts with this Doc. He has been open minded enough to atleast give you Testosterone . Or you could find another Doc...maybe a female who understands more about the delicate balance that is required for female HRT . Don't give up. You'll get there.

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## ktmsmith'swife

Ok, so I recent accidentally hijacked my husbands thread which I have copied my portion above. 

I have a couple more questions after reading PPC's response to my most recent BW. First, I have an IUD because I was having heavy periods. I have had it for 3 years and do not have a period since it was put in. Therefore I do not know what part of my cycle I am in or if I even have a cycle so in addition to having only 1 ovary I wonder what the effects of the IUD may have on my hormonal output. Both of my blood tests were taken on the 18th of the month so if I am having a cycle I would have been in the same part of the cycle for both tests. I knew nothing about my levels when going in for the first test and the doctor made it sound like my Estrogen was super high. He said not the highest he has seen but way way to high and I was Estrogen Dominent. The more I read the less confident I am in his assessments, only plus is he may be mallable to prescribing what I want after I research and determine what is right for me....we will see.

It appears that my E has now gone too low and the doctor did not address that issue at all duirng my last visit and he does not want to see me for 4 months. I am thinking that the E should be addressed sooner rather than waiting to see if I start to feel poorly because of low E and not high enough T.

Any other thoughts for me? I am pretty sure I would like to get another blood test including my Total T and the FSH. How long should I wait for another set of BW and should I get it on the same day of the month as the last 2?

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## PPC

> Ok, so I recent accidentally hijacked my husbands thread which I have copied my portion above. 
> 
> I have a couple more questions after reading PPC's response to my most recent BW. First, I have an IUD because I was having heavy periods. I have had it for 3 years and do not have a period since it was put in. Therefore I do not know what part of my cycle I am in or if I even have a cycle so in addition to having only 1 ovary I wonder what the effects of the IUD may have on my hormonal output. Both of my blood tests were taken on the 18th of the month so if I am having a cycle I would have been in the same part of the cycle for both tests. I knew nothing about my levels when going in for the first test and the doctor made it sound like my Estrogen was super high. He said not the highest he has seen but way way to high and I was Estrogen Dominent. The more I read the less confident I am in his assessments, only plus is he may be mallable to prescribing what I want after I research and determine what is right for me....we will see.
> 
> It appears that my E has now gone too low and the doctor did not address that issue at all duirng my last visit and he does not want to see me for 4 months. I am thinking that the E should be addressed sooner rather than waiting to see if I start to feel poorly because of low E and not high enough T.
> 
> Any other thoughts for me? I am pretty sure I would like to get another blood test including my Total T and the FSH. How long should I wait for another set of BW and should I get it on the same day of the month as the last 2?


I am assuming your IUD uses a progestin to make your uterine lining inhospitable to implantation rather than a copper IUD? Apparently the type of IUD that you have keeps the hormone localized to your uterus so it does not get in the blood stream. Hmmm, it is a synthetic hormone but if it stays local, it is most likely just your age and the loss of an ovary leading to your other low hormones. Still, it makes one wonder. Apparently, your ovaries still function while on the IUD, so that is why you still had sufficient estrogen on your first test. Not too high, but it was out of balance since you did not have any progesterone to counter it's effects.

I would be as procative with all this as you feel to be. You are correct that your E needs to be addressed now, especially since you are using T. It is your life, your body so you can manage yourself with the help of doctors. They should not dictate your protocol. Keep searching until you find the right doctor where you feel the fit is good. In the meantime you can order your own tests online if you want through privatemdlabs.com.

Yes, get the blood tests close to the same time. We cannot know what part of your cycle that is though. Do you feel yourself ovulate? Any pain or cramping on one side of your abdomen sometimes. That would be an indication of your ovaries trying to ovulate and that is usually about day 14 of a cycle. If you have any of that, it might clue us in a bit.

You could read any of Dr Uzzi Reiss's books and maybe one or two of Suzanne Somers. They talk a lot about the delicate balance required for female HRT. One of our longstanding female members here has put together a bunch of threads about female hormones entitled "Threads For Your Female Friends to Enjoy." It is now a sticky...up top here. Have you read some of that? It's a place to start.

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## ktmsmith'swife

My IUD does use progestin not copper. I am going to try to figure out my cycle by tracking any cramping which I do occasionally have but since I only have one ovary it may take a couple of months to determine my cycle. I have been on HRT for 4 months now and no longer have any breast tenderness which I believe I used to get when I was about to ovulate so I will have to rely on the cramping and keep a calendar. I have purchased 2 of Suzane Somers books and hope to get through them completely very soon. I will look for Reiss books today.

I saw in one of your posts that you were going to put up something about where all the hormone levels should be. I would love to know your thoughts on the range for these which you believe will result in the most balanced life. I know things are moving in the right direction because of the positive effects I have already seen. This may not sound like a big deal to alot of people on this site because they are much more fit than I am but we have been working out including cardio and weights and for the first time in my life I was able to do 3 sets of 12 push ups and I have very wimpy arms so I am looking forward to increasing my overall muscle and becoming a toned happy healthy lady who does not look 48!

Other positive effects I have already experienced include the cessation of pain from fibrocystic breasts, increased libido (a little), great sleep, increased strength, better memory and a general feeling of well being. I can't wait to see what being balanced completely will bring to my life.

Thanks for all your answers, it is great to hear from those who have actually done it.

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## PPC

> My IUD does use progestin not copper. I am going to try to figure out my cycle by tracking any cramping which I do occasionally have but since I only have one ovary it may take a couple of months to determine my cycle. I have been on HRT for 4 months now and no longer have any breast tenderness which I believe I used to get when I was about to ovulate so I will have to rely on the cramping and keep a calendar. I have purchased 2 of Suzane Somers books and hope to get through them completely very soon. I will look for Reiss books today.
> 
> I saw in one of your posts that you were going to put up something about where all the hormone levels should be. I would love to know your thoughts on the range for these which you believe will result in the most balanced life. I know things are moving in the right direction because of the positive effects I have already seen. This may not sound like a big deal to alot of people on this site because they are much more fit than I am but we have been working out including cardio and weights and for the first time in my life I was able to do 3 sets of 12 push ups and I have very wimpy arms so I am looking forward to increasing my overall muscle and becoming a toned happy healthy lady who does not look 48!
> 
> Other positive effects I have already experienced include the cessation of pain from fibrocystic breasts, increased libido (a little), great sleep, increased strength, better memory and a general feeling of well being. I can't wait to see what being balanced completely will bring to my life.
> 
> Thanks for all your answers, it is great to hear from those who have actually done it.


Awesome progress on the push ups! You go girl! Sounds like you have already made many improvements.

As to levels. Each women is so unique, there are no cookie cutter optimals. In his book, Dr Uzzi Riess talks about female body types and how the way we are built will greatly determine where our "sweet spot" hormone levels will rest. On the whole, curvy women, those with greater hip, waist, bust ratios may need a whole lot more estrogen than more athletic type women. These females probably made more estrogen during their developing years as estrogen is the hormone that stimulated the growth of our breasts and hips. Curvy women often find menopause horrible, since they endure bigger losses.

Natural athletes and dancers usually have more testosterone than the rest of us. We know this because higher levels of testosterone enable, balance, muscle tone and endurance. So they may feel best at the top of the range while someone like me (more curvy) will feel only aggressive with super high T levels.

Progesterone, again it's so unique for each women. High progesterone can cause bloating, drowsiness and weight gain in one women while for another those same levels reduce anxiety, allow better sleep and shed water weight!!! But there are some general guidelines to follow.

*Estrogen:* Below 100, you are not getting enough brain, skin and bone support. Some women never need much higher levels than 100, but below that depression can creep in. Estrogen increases serotonin so that helps with a more positive mood. Most docs think 250 is about the limit when supplementing with an exogenous source but young women often peak out near 400 naturally. Many blood lab levels are age adjusted and while 200 may look high on paper it may not be too high for the individual.

*Testosterone:* I've read where they have measured Olympic female athletes who have natural T levels around 100. I''m not a doctor but I'm surmising that most athletic women would probably feel great anywhere from 60-100 for total T. Lower T body types might do just fine from 40-70.

*Progesterone:* A women who is still menstruating should have a progesterone level of at least 12 after day 14 of her cycle to ensure a long enough luteal phase and a mature uterine lining that can shed properly. But it's important to know that in the first two weeks of a woman's cycle, female P levels are negligible, about the same as male levels. They shoot up after ovulation. Dr Uzzi Reiss believes between 18-24 gives the ultimate in uterine and breast protection. It's harder for menopausal women to get P levels anywhere close to that with supplementation. You are taking a hefty dose and you got to 9. Most Docs think between 5-15 is fine for a women on BHRT since her E levels will likely be lower than a young women ovulating naturally.

These are only my thoughts but I hope they help you somehow.

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## Gonzo877

Thanks to all for putting this info out there!!!! My wife has had alot of the symptoms for years(since giving birth to our last child) she has no energy, low libido, can't sleep at night and foggy memory. We have discussed in the past that we thought it possibly could be hormonal but after reading this thread I'm almost convinced that it is. 

I need to find a Doc. that has an open mind to the above treatments... Anyone know of any in or around the Houston, Texas area that will not break the bank??

Again thanks for the information, Great Stuff!!!

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## Moparman

Great post. Lots of good info here

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## pappybay

> I haven't been able to find any good and affordable one's in TX, so I'm like you and work with one based in FL. I've already informed them we'll be including my wife now too, they are just waiting on her results.


Term, can you PM the one you are dealing with in Florida?

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## Heels

Wow, after reading this I need to do some research into my own hormones as well. I'm 33, and just had my first child 7 mo. ago. Libido is zilch, I'm tired often, and having sleep problems at night and having foggy memory as well. Its becoming a problem in my marriage, and I don't know why this is happening because I've always had a healthy libido before. 

I know pregnancy throws everything crazy out of whack, but I'm not nursing anymore and its been 7 months. When should I see the doctor to determine if something is wrong or is this normal?

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## SEOINAGE

> Wow, after reading this I need to do some research into my own hormones as well. I'm 33, and just had my first child 7 mo. ago. Libido is zilch, I'm tired often, and having sleep problems at night and having foggy memory as well. Its becoming a problem in my marriage, and I don't know why this is happening because I've always had a healthy libido before. 
> 
> I know pregnancy throws everything crazy out of whack, but I'm not nursing anymore and its been 7 months. When should I see the doctor to determine if something is wrong or is this normal?


It is pretty common for hormones to go out of wack after stopping breastfeeding. You might want to give it a little time to see if things change. Also are you on any form of birth control? I know for my wife birth control hurt her libido, after our first child it started to come back but not fully, but after she had twins her libido was 10 times stronger than before, and even though it slowed down after stopping breastfeeding it was still much better. Sometimes these dramatic events can change your physiology, but it also doesn't necessarily make it permanent. 

She's also experiencing sleep problems lately, eventually we want to get her blood work, at minimum to check if she is healthy, although she seems to be doing well now, when her libido was basically crushed for a couple years I was really concerned. So it is kind of a wait and see how she does kind of thing right now. I would suggest letting your body adapt and see where you end up in a few more months.

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## bass

> Wow, after reading this I need to do some research into my own hormones as well. I'm 33, and just had my first child 7 mo. ago. Libido is zilch, I'm tired often, and having sleep problems at night and having foggy memory as well. Its becoming a problem in my marriage, and I don't know why this is happening because I've always had a healthy libido before. 
> 
> I know pregnancy throws everything crazy out of whack, but I'm not nursing anymore and its been 7 months. When should I see the doctor to determine if something is wrong or is this normal?


good on you Heels for taking charge of your health and taking the time to look into it, it shows how much care about you husband and your marriage. we are here to help inform you so don't hesitate to ask any questions you may have, simply start your own threads and everyone will chime in. best of luck to you on your journey to a better life.

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## hisexywife

I am pretty simple...injecting T has made sex amazing!

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