# STEROIDS FORUM > IGF-1 LR3, HGH, and INSULIN QUESTIONS >  Pro Bodybuilding : HGH cycle + Need Help from PRO BODYBUILDERs

## tarzenbond

Hello All,

Hope you all are doing fine.

Well I have few queries regarding starting of HGH cycle.

I am a professional bodybuilder in INDIA. I am doing this sport since past 10 years. I am doing pretty good. I am one of the bodybuilder in my state. I have tried anabolic steroids . I have recently got sponsorship, hence I am thinking of doing HGH cycle for 6 months.

Its sept 17 today , I have main competition starts from MARCH 2nd week.
Currently I am in off season. So I want to gain weight. Now , How should I proceed with my HGH cycle ,Which i will start from OCTOBER 1st. After doing some survey I got some infromation. Shall I take this with combination of HGH+T3+Anabolic ( Mass Gain )+ "INSULIN "

Is this a right combination to start with ? to gain muscle mass.
I am 5.7 and I weight around 85 KG (pure muscle mass). 

My plan for this season :

Oct : HGH (4iu) + Anabolic (gainer) + T3 (25mcg) + Insulin (15)
Nov : HGH (4iu) + Anabolic (gainer) + T3 (25mcg) + Insulin (15)
Dec : HGH (4iu) + Anabolic (gainer) + T3 (25mcg) + Insulin (15)
Jan : HGH (4iu) + Anabolic (gainer) + T3 (25mcg) + Insulin (15)
Feb : HGH (2iu) + Anabolic (weight loss ripper) + T3(25 mcg) + Insulin (10)
Mar : HGH (2iu) + Anabolic (weight loss ripper) + T3(25 mcg) + Insulin (10)

Is this a good plan to gain muscle mass till Feb 1st 2010. and then get ripped again for competition in MARCH around 15th march 2010.

Kindly needed help from pro bodybuilders.

Can any one help me out with this plan , any suggestion ?

Kindly also suggest name of the BEST HGH + anabolic available right now, cost doesn't matter. 


Waiting for your responses.
Many Thanks in advance.


Best Regards,
Tarzen

I don't know weather posting link is allowed or not , Kindly check my pics of month MARCH 09
http://tinypic.com/r/k2qs4/3
http://tinypic.com/r/ru4lr5/3

I hope u guys don't mind masking..

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## D7M

please edit your email addy out of your post. 

people will answer your question here.

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## astrix79

you need to do more research.....
you have no clue what you r doing bro......


but im not a pro BB.....i hope you find one who can help you out..

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## Big

I know a good deal about HGH, but I am not a pro bodybuilder, so I'll step aside and wait for some of those to chime in. Good luck.

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## Dont wanna be old

If your top bodybuilder in your state , why are you asking for advice ?

You need to be top knowledgeable to be top bodybuilder friend .

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## CHAP

> If your top bodybuilder in your state , why are you asking for advice ?
> 
> You need to be top knowledgeable to be top bodybuilder friend .


Take that crap somewhere else. He needs some help . And that is what this board is for.

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## CHAP

> you need to do more research.....
> you have no clue what you r doing bro......
> 
> 
> but im not a pro BB.....i hope you find one who can help you out..


Same for you. Flaming someone with 10x the experience in our sport

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## CHAP

> Hello All,
> 
> Hope you all are doing fine.
> 
> Well I have few queries regarding starting of HGH cycle.
> 
> I am a professional bodybuilder in INDIA. I am doing this sport since past 10 years. I am doing pretty good. I am one of the top bodybuilder in my state. I have tried one of the best anabolic steroids . I have recently got sponsorship, hence I am thinking of doing HGH cycle for 6 months.
> 
> Its sept 17 today , I have main competition starts from MARCH 2nd week.
> ...


Ill pm someone for you.

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## Bigmax

Hmmmmm...doesnt make any sense to me...Pro bodybuilder and you want to try HGH?????....Ok heres a tip 4IU's would be considered a rejuvenation dose....

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## Bigmax

By the way can you please post a Pic mr pro bodybuilder...

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## Vitruvian-Man

> I have tried one of the best anabolic steroids.


 :Hmmmm: .... right..

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## "Maximus"

> .... right..


Have you? ..do you know what does "meaningful contribution" in a forum board mean? ..I hope so!  :Smilie:

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## tarzenbond

Hello All , 

I have modified my thread.
Expecting good help from you guys , may be I am not as good as you. But in here i m doing OK in bodybuilding field. :| 

Anyways ,

I would really appreciate some help on my cycle.
Never tried GH before.

Kindly suggest something.

Many thanks for all of you who replied.

Regards,
Tarzen

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## starkiller

If that is your pic you look like you know what your doing. If it isnt you in the pic there is plenty of threads that will give you answers to your questions. Use the search tool, it works. Let us know what you find.

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## tarzenbond

> If that is your pic you look like you know what your doing. I.



Many Thanks,
I know something but *NOT ALL*. Hence I am here, asking for some help.
I know few things about anabolic , but GH is a totally NEW THING about me. Just heard few different different things hence making me totally confuse.

"_Some say dont try Insulin , Some say TRY it.

Some say take 2 IU some say take 6-12 IU.

Not even know how exactly GH works to Build Muscle Mass and at the same time make you ripped_."

I just wanted to know the BEST which works coz of its cost $$ . 

Regards,
Tarzen

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## astrix79

> Same for you. Flaming someone with 10x the experience in our sport



dude im not flaming him
but read the post read it twice!!!

does the post tell you that he realy is a pro BB???
I have tried one of the best anabolic steroids ....what does that mean??
test and deca ???

if he is a pro BB the he should have really good coach freinds and so on...
u cant becom a pro BB by your self....and havent yet tried HGH????

what is hes previous cycle history???

HGH + anabolic yeah that means alot!!!!




pffffffff
lame lame lame

but once again im not a pro BB so i might have wrong!

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## tarzenbond

Well , 

I have told you what is the truth. COACH n all is not present in INDIA. if u want u can come n chk. Here U & only U is ur COACH , ur knowledge is updated by other bodybuilders.bt they will not tell u about all stuff. so..

& I have never tried any GH so I am asking for help , as this thread is intend to do. 
So can we jst cut this _PRO bodybuilder_ thing discuss more about GH n cycle.

I would really appreciate it , as I want to perform good in this season. 

Kindly do suggest about what to do.

many thanks,
Tarzen

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## Swifto

You have an excellent physique.

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## swol_je

Human Growth Hormone (HGH)
(somatotropin)
Human growth hormone (Somatotropin) is produced in the body by the pituitary gland. Before this happens, Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone (HGHRH) and Somatostatin (SST) are released by the hypothalamus, and that determines whether more or less HGH is produced by the pituitary.(1) Many factors influence the release of HGH, however, including nutrition and exercise (6)(7).

Once it is released, Human Growth Hormone (HGH), which is also called Somatotropin (STH) has many functions in the human body. HGH is a protein that stimulates the body cells to increase both in size, as well as undergo more rapid cell division than usual. In addition, it enhances the movement of amino acids through cell membranes and also increases the rate at which these cells convert these molecules into proteins. Clearly, you can see that this would amount to an anabolic (muscle building) effect in the human body. HGH also has the ability to cause cells to decrease the normal rate at which they utilize carbohydrates, and simultaneously increase the rate at which they use fats.(1) Fat loss and lean mass increases with HGH have been found at a dose as low as . 0.028 iu/kg/daily for 24 weeks (4), however, in my estimation, that would be insufficient for a bodybuilder trying to gain muscle. Let´s use .028iu/kg as a working number; that´s 2.8iu for a 100kg (220lbs) bodybuilder. That´s certainly not unreasonable, and I would say that that dose to 2x that dose is the range most bodybuilders and athletes are finding their best results with. Also, that length of time used in the study I just mentioned (24 weeks) is very typical of HGH use, and in conversations with my friends who have used this compound, have told me that they experience consistent results starting well after the 2-month-mark, and they tend to either run this stuff for 6 months at a time, or year-round (if they have sufficient funds). One of my friends is able to consistently retain a shredded 6-7% body fat all year round with the assistance of HGH, whether he is on steroids or off. He also has noted that his cardio (fast walking, for an hour a day) was much easier while on HGH than when off, and certainly the research I´ve done would support his claim that sub maximal aerobic ability is improved with HGH use (5) (15). 

How anabolic is this stuff? Well, even endurance athletes at rest (!) were observed in one study to be in an anabolic state (8). Yeah, so you can basically run marathons and take this stuff, and still build some muscle. Pretty impressive, right?

Growth Hormone is usually secreted in rhythmic pulses while you are sleeping, as two peptides, HGHRH and Somatostatin (SST) are alternately released. As you can guess, HGHRH (Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone) is the one responsible for the Release of Growth Hormone (And who said scientists have funny ways for naming things.(1)

Growth hormone also has the ability to stimulate the production (or reproduction, in the case of an injury) of cartilage. This, however, requires the presence of a mediator substance, Somatomedin (IGF), which is released from the liver in response to HGH, and the IGF, in turn, actually promotes the growth of cartilage.(1)

Although it requires IGF to actually grow new cartilage, HGH is directly able to stimulate the elongation of bone tissue.(1), and HGH has also been shown to elicit a positive effects on erythropoeisis (9), which is great for both anabolism as well as endurance. 

Remember the negative feedback loop I always tell you about? Well, of course, your body has one which can stop the secretion of HGH, and it involves IGF. When your liver receives secretes IGF-1, it sends a message to both your Hypothalamus as well as your Pituitary to stop producing HGH. (1)

As you have probably guessed by now, your body produces the majority of it´s HGH during your early years, when you are experiencing growth spurts. As you get older, however, you just produce less of this stuff, and its effects are much less pronounced. This was the driving force behind the (always weird) life-extension crowd embracing HGH in the early 90´s. And, as usual, the driving force behind the athletic world embracing HGH was Dan Duchaine, which I´m sure comes as no surprise to many. He first wrote a teaser about it in his Underground Steroid Handbook, and then wrote extensively about it for the next couple of decades. At that time, Grorm, was being used. This nasty stuff was HGH extracted from (are you ready?): the pituitary of dead bodies? That´s real "Dawn of the Dead" style science, in my opinion. I guess it´s an advance from a couple of centuries ago, when Descartes (the "I think therefore I am" guy) declared the pituitary the part of the human body where the soul resides. Anyway, back to the cadaver-thing, the HGH extracted from the cadavers was found to be able to (in rare cases) carry a rare brain disease. This of course, infected the kids who received the infected HGH. The use of HGH from cadavers was subsequently discontinued. Back then (the 80´s) there was also a fake version of some purple looking HGH going around (it was HCG I believe, mixed with B-12) called "Rhesus Monkey Growth Hormone", which is pretty funny, looking back on it. To this day, however, if you get fake HGH, it´s still probably HCG, since both come presented as a powder and bacterioistatic water you need to use to reconstitute it (and then it needs to be refrigerated).

Even if you are using the non-cadaver-derived stuff (and at this point, I´m 100% sure that there´s none of the old Grorm left on shelves anywhere), it´s possible that you experience some side effects like carpal tunnel syndrome, acr*****ly (a thickening or growth of bones, most noticeable in the feet, hands, and forehead), and enlarged organs. Gynocomastia is also possible as a side effect of HGH use, as well as Fluid retention (16) (the later being initially pointed out to me by a female colleague who had a pre-contest bodybuilder using HGH as part of his contest prep).

Now for some really interesting stuff:

Although HGH can easily produce very nice, high quality weight and muscle gains, it´s a very poor compound for inducing strength gains(2)(3)(4). That´s very counterintuitive, and certainly many strength athletes have experienced great results in strength as well as muscle size and fat loss from HGH. Generally, many studies have focused on HGH vs. HGH and exercise, and without the exercise LBM increases but not usually maximum voluntary strength output. It should also be noted that most athletes utilizing HGH are using it in a "cocktail" with (at least) anabolic steroids , and usually with IGF, thyroid meds, and other goodies such as an Aromatase Inhibitor. 

Let´s discuss exactly why this is.

Most people who are taking the plunge into HGH use have reached a dead end with their use of anabolics, and need to push through that wall. I´m sure you´ve heard about the synergistic combination of using HGH along with Anabolic Steroids, IGF, insulin and T3 (* usually synthroid , a thyroid medication). The reason is that when these hormones are used correctly together, they´ll produce a large amount of synergy, the insulin is able to shuttle nutrients into your muscle, the thyroid hormone increases your fat-burning capability, the IGF will cause muscle growth as well as helping to grow new cartilage (thus preventing injury), and the anabolic steroids like testosterone , specifically (in addition to being anabolic) can increase IGF-1, in muscle tissue(11), and maybe even increase your body´s ability to use it. Also, usually, an increased amount of IGF usually tells your body to stop producing HGH, but testosterone actually blunts this part of the Negative FeedBack Loop (12)! And the addition of an Aromatase Inhibitor will also stop conversion of testosterone into estrogen; estrogen reduces IGF levels.(13)(14) Finally, the HGH does, well everything I just spent the last few pages telling you about!

Thus, IGF, Testosterone (and of course other steroids), Insulin, thyroid meds, and HGH will all combine to produce a pretty damned effective fat-burning and muscle building cycle! You know what else? HGH is virtually undetectable on any sort of currently used drug-screening tests. HGH, Insulin, Thyroid meds, and IGF may also be used pretty safely by those who may be subject to drug screening tests, or as a non-HPTA suppressive "bridge" between cycles. 

Finally, I´ll tell you how I´d take HGH, personally. There was a study done on continuous HGH use vs. every other day injections (ED vs. EOD for the sake of brevity), with a equal total weekly dose. Although it´s counterintuitive, every other day injections produced better total growth in the kids in this (2 and 4 year long) study. Take a look at these graphs:

Growth velocity of children treated with alternate day HGH (the darker bars) or with a daily HGH regimen before, during, and 2 yr after stopping therapy. Values are the mean ± SD. *, P < 0.05; **, P < 0.01.(10)



Here´s another:



Pretreatment and cumulative 4-yr growth velocity of children treated with alternate day HGH ( the darker bars) or with a daily HGH regimen. Values are the mean ± SD. *, P < 0.00 (10)

Shooting HGH every other day more accurately replicates the pulsile frequency of HGH, and thus gave better results for growth (height) deficient children, HGH pulsatility is necessary for proper function of the HGH receptor.(10) Dosing in the EOD nature reduces incidence of any sort of withdrawal problems associated with normal HGH use, including regression or retardation of growth after cessation of therapy. 

Therefore, I feel very comfortable speculating that the use of HGH in this manner, which more closely simulates the natural secretion pattern of it, allows the HGH receptors and the rest of the body to more efficiently recover from it, and this will result in much more muscle growth over time (although height was examined in the previous study). My recommendations therefore are 2 shots per day of .028iu/kg of bodyweight, taken every other day, for a minimum of 3months, and preferably for 2-3x that long, and preferably with the other synergistic compounds we´ve just taken a look at.

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## tarzenbond

thanks for information swol je

can I hav any GH cycle which is available.
?

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## tarzenbond

Can anyone explains effect of INSULIN with GH?

Is it necessary to take INSULIN with GH ?

waiting for reply..

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## peteroy01

go back a page and look at the top and click on "threads everyone should Read" you will find your answers in there. there are some great write ups in there.

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## hellapimpin

i honestly think this guy is being geniune. I think that some peepz on here breaking down every word he is saying is not called for.. He is obviously doing the best he can typing English.. ummm give me a sec.. i dont know a whole lot about gh and slin combo..ima try HGH very soon though. but ima give you a link i saved on my other computer for a quick source.. lemme find it again.

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## hellapimpin

also tarzan.. some of the vets and mods here may not be probody builders but have the knowledge to pursue that if they so wanted..so let a few vets and mods that wanna help ya.. steer you in the right direction.. my 2 cents.

<This is quoted from Red Barons Post>



" Here is the latest iteration of this post just for anyone interested ... not that it is really too different from the original. Little prettier with the bolds and italics though 

Putting it all together - HGH + IGF-1 + Insulin – by RedBaron
A basic peptide cycle guide for the lazy man 

There are volumes of studies available regarding the use of HGH, IGF-1 (and all its variants), and Insulin, but for the most part coming up with a good cycle incorporating all of these is a tedious process and requires more of an investment in time pouring over studies and other reading than most people wish to invest. The following is put forth as a basic guide. It is meant to be a quick and simple reference as to what a cycle including all three of these components might look like and a brief description of the action of each of the components. This is in no wise intended to be a comprehensive guide, a technical document, nor is it presented as the ONLY way to run a cycle such as this. This is merely as an example of one method that will definitely yield results. Myself and several athletes and all levels of competition have used the basic cycle principles below with good success over the last few years. You will certainly want to tweak this for your particular application, but this should at least get you headed in the right direction.

THE CYCLE

Weeks 1- (20-30) – HGH – On 5/ off 2
Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25)
• 2 – 3 IU’s - first thing in the morning on workout days – early afternoon on non-workout days
Weeks 6-10, 16-20, (26-30)
• 2 – 3 IU’s first thing in the morning
• 2 – 3 IU’s 1-2 p.m. or pre-workout (or IM post-workout with your insulin if preferred)
All HGH injected subQ into a**omen, obliques, fronts of the thighs, and upper triceps

Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) – Long R3 IGF-1 – Every day
80 – 100 mcg’s intramuscular
• post work out on workout days 
• first thing in the morning on non-workout days

Weeks 6-10, 16-20, (26-30) – Humalog – Workout days only
• 8 – 12 IU’s immediately post workout, intramuscular

IMPORTANT / CRITICAL - Post Insulin Nutrient Routine
Immediately after Humalog injection – do the following in exacting fashion -
• Injection + 5 minutes – drink shake with 10g glutamine / 10g creatine / 7 grams of dextrose per IU of Insulin. (If you don’t wish to split the shakes, add the whey isolate described as well here for a single shake).
• Injection + 15 minutes – drink shake with 65g of whey isolate protein in water (skip if taken with above)
• Injection + 75 minutes – eat a protein / carb meal with 40-50g of protein, 40-50g of carbs, NO FATS (you may wish to add another 30g or so whey isolate protein drink with this meal if you have tore down sufficient muscle groups to utilize this without it being stored as fat)
(i.e. – two boneless, skinless chicken breasts baked or grilled, a serving of brown rice, sweet potatoes, or pasta, with green beans)
Avoid fats for 2-3 hours for Humalog IM, 3-4 hours for Humalog subQ, 4-5 hours for Humulin-R.
keep some glucose tablets or other simple carbs on hand (Orange Juice, Full sugar Coke, etc.) for the active window of your insulin. Hypo symptoms can and will hit hard and fast and you will have little time to react. This is the main danger of insulin use. . Lack of attention to detail in this area can end in a nice ambulance ride, a visit to the hospital or even a one-way trip to the morgue. Be ready and act smart. The price of stupidity is really, really high.

OPTIONAL Addition to above cycle

Weeks 1- (20-30) T3 or T4 - Every Day
one of the following –
• 12.5 mcgs - 25 mcgs T3 taken once each day
-or –
• 100 mcgs T4 taken once each day

[alternative method if additional fat loss is necessary - Only use if sufficient AAS cycle is present to protect and support lean tissue and use only during the weeks of LR3 injections to avoid any potential negative impact to our IGF levels by increased IGF binding proteins. The 13 amino acid side chain of LR3 IGF-1 has specifically been engineered to resist being impressed by or bound to IGFBP’s, so any increase in the below ramp up/down will not kill your IGF levels. A reasonable dose AAS component of the cycle will further protect lean tissue from being used for fuel. In absence of these above-mentioned components, you won’t want to run your T3 above 50mcgs per day. It will begin to elevate IGFBP’s and will dismantle and burn through hard-earned muscle proteins quicker than you could imagine.]

Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) T3 Every Day
For each of the 5 week runs of T3:
Days 1-3 25 mcgs
Days 4-6 50 mcgs
Days 7-9 75 mcgs
Days 10 - 20 100 mcgs
Days 21 - 24 75 mcgs
Days 25 - 27 50 mcgs
Days 28 - 30 25 mcgs
Days 31 - 35 12.5 mcgs

DESCRIPTION OF THE ELEMENTS OF THIS CYCLE

HGH
HGH should ideally be used for 20-30 week cycles (or longer). The dosage should be between 2-3IU per day if you are using GH primarily for fat loss, 4-8 IU’s a day for both fat loss and muscle growth, and approximately 1.0 – 2.0 IU’s a day for females. It is best to split your injections 1/2 first thing in the morning, 1/2 early afternoon if your dose is above 3.0 IU’s per day. Your pituitary will naturally produce an average of 6 or so pulses of GH per day, the mega pulse being 2 hours after we fall asleep. Each injection you take will create a negative feedback loop that as suggested by a couple of studies will suppress these pulses for an approximate 4 hours. By taking your injections first thing in the morning and early afternoon you will still allow your body to release its biggest pulse, which normally occurs shortly after going to sleep at night, as well as blunting the effects of cortisol, the two biggest peaks of which are occurring at these same times (early morning, early afternoon).

When starting out with your HGH cycle, for most people it is wise to begin you dose at 1.5 – 2.0IU per day for the first couple of weeks, and then begin increasing your dose by 0.5 unit every week or two until you reach your desired level. While it isn't an absolute necessity to do this, if you are sensitive to the type of sides HGH present you will often times avoid these sides of joint pain/swelling, CTS, and bloating/water retention by slowly acclimating to your ultimate 4-5 IU/day goal.

You should use an U100 insulin syringe for injecting HGH, and inject it subQ into your a**omen, obliques, top of thighs, triceps. Rotate injection sites. HGH can have a small-localized fat loss benefit, so keep this in mind when choosing your injection sites.

IGF-1
When HGH makes it pass through the liver, a release of IGF-1 is a result. IGF-1 appears to be a key player in muscle growth. It stimulates both the differentiation and proliferation of myoblasts. It also stimulates amino acid uptake and protein synthesis in muscle and other tissues. While HGH will cause an increase in your IGF-1 level over the course of a few months, HGH has a cumulative effect, so our addition of IGF-1 will greatly speed up the time to results.

There are two types of IGF-1 that will typically be used by bodybuilders. One is bio-identical huIGF-1, a 70 amino acid string. The other is Long R3 IGF-1, which is an 83 amino acid analog of human IGF-I comprising the complete human IGF-I sequence with the substitution of an Arg for the Glu at position 3 (hence R3), and a 13 amino acid extension peptide at the N-terminus (hence the long). This 13 amino acid "side chain" helps prevent the IGF-1 from being so easily bound by binding proteins, and thus increases its active window exponentially. Which of these you use depends on your goal.

HuIGF-1 is very short lived in the body (probable half life of approximately 10 minutes). This type of IGF-1 is very useful if you are seeking local site growth. Since it is so short lived, little if any of the IGF-1 makes it to other tissues and IGF-1 receptors in other parts of the body. The way to inject this is immediately post work out into the muscle that you wish to have local site growth. Use a U100 insulin syringe, and inject 100 - 300 mcg’s (in some cases more) bilaterally into the desired muscle immediately post workout. For this type of IGF-1, I would use it workout days only.

For Long R3 IGF-1, it isn’t as critical that you inject into a local site as long R3 has a active window of many hours (if not days), and is designed specifically to resist being bound by IGF binding proteins. 

Since it is common to reconstitute this type of IGF-1 with Benzyl Alcohol, Acetic Acid, or Hydrochloric Acid, I would still recommend that you inject intra-muscular. While for some purposes of nerve regrowth and other medical recovery purposes subQ is a somewhat superior injection method, it can and probably will leave a nice red irritated spot for a couple of weeks if you inject subQ, and it is not superior for our purposes of muscle growth anyway. 

I still inject into a muscle just worked to take advantage of increased IGF-1 receptors present as a result of tearing down muscles with my workout, but because of the long activity window of this type of IGF-1 any muscle will work well and give you good results. I would suggest that you inject between 80 – 120 mcg’s per day everyday immediately post workout on workout days, and first thing in the morning on non-workout days.

The added bonus of using LR3 in our cycle is that fat loss will be accomplished while still eating a great number of clean calories per day. You will visibly see yourself leaning out from a couple of weeks in on while using LR3 at doses suggested here.

Use a U-100 insulin syringe with 1/2" needle to inject IGF-1 intramuscular (bilaterally for HuIGF-1, bilaterally optional for Long R3)

Insulin
Working out causes our muscles to end up in a catabolic state after a good hammering. It is important to back in a positive nitrogen balance as soon as possible. When not using insulin, we drink some dextrose with our protein to cause an insulin spike immediately post workout to help shuttle the protein and sugars to the muscles. 

Insulin is very good at shuttling nutrients to the muscles, and works in a very complimentary manner with GH in the types of things that they shuttle. Also, HGH can cause an amount of insulin resistance, so adding some insulin to your cycle will go a long ways toward reducing the elevated blood glucose levels caused by HGH's action of interfering with the liver's ability to uptake glucose, and thus help offset any potential resistance that might occur during your HGH cycle. Also by taking our HGH near the time of our insulin injection (immediately post workout) we are ensuring a great influx of growth factors after action on the liver. HGH + Slin passed through the liver = BIG secretion of growth factors. These growth factors will equate to muscle growth, rapid healing, etc.

For the purposes that we are using insulin, a dosage of 6-12IU’s is adequate and should be used immediately post workout. I personally prefer using Humalog intramuscular as it will cause a rapid spike and clear out of your system quickly. You can use it subQ or use Humulin-R instead, but each of these will result in a longer active window, thus a longer time to avoid eating any fats and watching your carb intake. Any fats or over abundance of carbs will end up being stored as fat during insulin's active window. The approximate windows are:
Humalog - IM - 2-3 hours
Sub-q - 3-4 hours
Humulin -R - IM - 3-4 hours
Sub-q 4-5 hours

Use a U-100 insulin syringe with 1/2" needle to inject IM immediately post workout. Alternatively, you can inject subQ if desired or if you wish a longer active window for some reason. Begin with a dose of 4IU's or so, and increase the dose each workout day until you reach your desired 8-12IU's.

If for some reason you wish to avoid insulin, I would still suggest that immediately post workout you spike you own endogenous insulin by drinking 80 grams of dextrose / 40 grams of whey isolate protein. While this certainly won't do the work of 8-12 IU's of Humalog, it will most certainly assist getting your muscle back in a nitrogen positive environment in a short amount of time.


T3 or T4
HGH can (but certainly not universally) have a slight inhibitory effect on your thyroid. For most people this is minimal and does not require any additional thyroid be taken, but if you wish to augment protein synthesis as well as give yourself a slight metabolic boost in thyroid without shutting down your own production, you can add 12.5mcg of T3 or 50mcgs of T4 daily to your HGH, IGF-1, and Insulin cycle. This will aid both in bulking and cutting. 

If you add T3 or T4 to your cycle, you should also consider taking some thyroid support supplements such as t-100x, bladderwrack, and coleus forskolin. You should check and make sure your intake of trace minerals (selenium, zinc, copper) is sufficient to aid in the conversion of T4 to T3. 

If you are going to take more than 12.5 mcg of T3 or 50mcgs of T4, a wise method is to cycle the dose both up and down to avoid a rebound effect when going off the T3 portion of your cycle. While many profess they don’t suffer from this rebound problem, I can personally attest to MANY that do. If you don’t have a desire to find out whether you are one of the lucky ones or not, consider the ramp up/down to minimize the rebound. It is a real bummer to lose a bunch of fat only to pack it right back on because your metabolism is in the toilet for many weeks post thyroid cycling. The other consideration is that T3 is very indiscriminant in it stoking of the metabolic fire. It will happily burn both fat and lean tissue (muscle proteins are really attractive, easy marks), so I would only recommend its use at much above 25mcgs of T3 or 100mcgs of T4 per day (and definitely if used at 50mcgs of T3 or 200mcgs of T4 or above - at which point IGFBP's will rise significantly enough to be a consideration) if you are on a reasonably healthy anabolic cycle to protect your lean tissue. For strictly our use with an HGH cycle and use in assisting with protein synthesis, 12.5mcg of T3 or 50mcgs of T4 will be sufficient and will not be problematic. 

Also another consideration if cycling in higher doses, cycle your T3 in conjunction with your LR3 IGF-1 use. The thought behind this is that LR3 binds poorly to IGFBP's, so you will be able to use an elevated dose of T3 (which will likely increase IGFBP's) and still keep elevated IGF-1 levels. I would suggest that use of T3 above 25mcg's or T4 at doses above 100mcgs or so would not be advisable for too many 5 weeks segments of your complete cycle. As one of the major "anabolic" benefits of HGH use is elevated IGF-1 levels, we don't want to create an environment of radically increased IGF binding proteins. Abuse of T3 or T4 will go a long way in creating that environment hostile to IGF-1.

Well, I think that about covers the basic peptide suite …all that is needed to complete this cycle is the addition of your preferred anabolic portion of the cycle –a simple testosterone combo (cyp, e, prop, etc.) or a more complex cycle. In either event, add something along those lines and you have a great combination that can be tailored for whatever your goals may be.

I hope this guide helps get you going on the right path. Happy growing! 
RedBaron
(last updated 1/15/07) "

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## hellapimpin

also tarzan.. some of the vets and mods here may not be probody builders but have the knowledge to pursue that if they so wanted..so let a few vets and mods that wanna help ya.. steer you in the right direction.. my 2 cents.

<This is quoted from Red Barons Post>



" Here is the latest iteration of this post just for anyone interested ... not that it is really too different from the original. Little prettier with the bolds and italics though 

Putting it all together - HGH + IGF-1 + Insulin  by RedBaron
A basic peptide cycle guide for the lazy man 

There are volumes of studies available regarding the use of HGH, IGF-1 (and all its variants), and Insulin, but for the most part coming up with a good cycle incorporating all of these is a tedious process and requires more of an investment in time pouring over studies and other reading than most people wish to invest. The following is put forth as a basic guide. It is meant to be a quick and simple reference as to what a cycle including all three of these components might look like and a brief description of the action of each of the components. This is in no wise intended to be a comprehensive guide, a technical document, nor is it presented as the ONLY way to run a cycle such as this. This is merely as an example of one method that will definitely yield results. Myself and several athletes and all levels of competition have used the basic cycle principles below with good success over the last few years. You will certainly want to tweak this for your particular application, but this should at least get you headed in the right direction.

THE CYCLE

Weeks 1- (20-30)  HGH  On 5/ off 2
Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25)
 2  3 IUs - first thing in the morning on workout days  early afternoon on non-workout days
Weeks 6-10, 16-20, (26-30)
 2  3 IUs first thing in the morning
 2  3 IUs 1-2 p.m. or pre-workout (or IM post-workout with your insulin if preferred)
All HGH injected subQ into a**omen, obliques, fronts of the thighs, and upper triceps

Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25)  Long R3 IGF-1  Every day
80  100 mcgs intramuscular
 post work out on workout days 
 first thing in the morning on non-workout days

Weeks 6-10, 16-20, (26-30)  Humalog  Workout days only
 8  12 IUs immediately post workout, intramuscular

IMPORTANT / CRITICAL - Post Insulin Nutrient Routine
Immediately after Humalog injection  do the following in exacting fashion -
 Injection + 5 minutes  drink shake with 10g glutamine / 10g creatine / 7 grams of dextrose per IU of Insulin. (If you dont wish to split the shakes, add the whey isolate described as well here for a single shake).
 Injection + 15 minutes  drink shake with 65g of whey isolate protein in water (skip if taken with above)
 Injection + 75 minutes  eat a protein / carb meal with 40-50g of protein, 40-50g of carbs, NO FATS (you may wish to add another 30g or so whey isolate protein drink with this meal if you have tore down sufficient muscle groups to utilize this without it being stored as fat)
(i.e.  two boneless, skinless chicken breasts baked or grilled, a serving of brown rice, sweet potatoes, or pasta, with green beans)
Avoid fats for 2-3 hours for Humalog IM, 3-4 hours for Humalog subQ, 4-5 hours for Humulin-R.
keep some glucose tablets or other simple carbs on hand (Orange Juice, Full sugar Coke, etc.) for the active window of your insulin. Hypo symptoms can and will hit hard and fast and you will have little time to react. This is the main danger of insulin use. . Lack of attention to detail in this area can end in a nice ambulance ride, a visit to the hospital or even a one-way trip to the morgue. Be ready and act smart. The price of stupidity is really, really high.

OPTIONAL Addition to above cycle

Weeks 1- (20-30) T3 or T4 - Every Day
one of the following 
 12.5 mcgs - 25 mcgs T3 taken once each day
-or 
 100 mcgs T4 taken once each day

[alternative method if additional fat loss is necessary - Only use if sufficient AAS cycle is present to protect and support lean tissue and use only during the weeks of LR3 injections to avoid any potential negative impact to our IGF levels by increased IGF binding proteins. The 13 amino acid side chain of LR3 IGF-1 has specifically been engineered to resist being impressed by or bound to IGFBPs, so any increase in the below ramp up/down will not kill your IGF levels. A reasonable dose AAS component of the cycle will further protect lean tissue from being used for fuel. In absence of these above-mentioned components, you wont want to run your T3 above 50mcgs per day. It will begin to elevate IGFBPs and will dismantle and burn through hard-earned muscle proteins quicker than you could imagine.]

Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) T3 Every Day
For each of the 5 week runs of T3:
Days 1-3 25 mcgs
Days 4-6 50 mcgs
Days 7-9 75 mcgs
Days 10 - 20 100 mcgs
Days 21 - 24 75 mcgs
Days 25 - 27 50 mcgs
Days 28 - 30 25 mcgs
Days 31 - 35 12.5 mcgs

DESCRIPTION OF THE ELEMENTS OF THIS CYCLE

HGH
HGH should ideally be used for 20-30 week cycles (or longer). The dosage should be between 2-3IU per day if you are using GH primarily for fat loss, 4-8 IUs a day for both fat loss and muscle growth, and approximately 1.0  2.0 IUs a day for females. It is best to split your injections 1/2 first thing in the morning, 1/2 early afternoon if your dose is above 3.0 IUs per day. Your pituitary will naturally produce an average of 6 or so pulses of GH per day, the mega pulse being 2 hours after we fall asleep. Each injection you take will create a negative feedback loop that as suggested by a couple of studies will suppress these pulses for an approximate 4 hours. By taking your injections first thing in the morning and early afternoon you will still allow your body to release its biggest pulse, which normally occurs shortly after going to sleep at night, as well as blunting the effects of cortisol, the two biggest peaks of which are occurring at these same times (early morning, early afternoon).

When starting out with your HGH cycle, for most people it is wise to begin you dose at 1.5  2.0IU per day for the first couple of weeks, and then begin increasing your dose by 0.5 unit every week or two until you reach your desired level. While it isn't an absolute necessity to do this, if you are sensitive to the type of sides HGH present you will often times avoid these sides of joint pain/swelling, CTS, and bloating/water retention by slowly acclimating to your ultimate 4-5 IU/day goal.

You should use an U100 insulin syringe for injecting HGH, and inject it subQ into your a**omen, obliques, top of thighs, triceps. Rotate injection sites. HGH can have a small-localized fat loss benefit, so keep this in mind when choosing your injection sites.

IGF-1
When HGH makes it pass through the liver, a release of IGF-1 is a result. IGF-1 appears to be a key player in muscle growth. It stimulates both the differentiation and proliferation of myoblasts. It also stimulates amino acid uptake and protein synthesis in muscle and other tissues. While HGH will cause an increase in your IGF-1 level over the course of a few months, HGH has a cumulative effect, so our addition of IGF-1 will greatly speed up the time to results.

There are two types of IGF-1 that will typically be used by bodybuilders. One is bio-identical huIGF-1, a 70 amino acid string. The other is Long R3 IGF-1, which is an 83 amino acid analog of human IGF-I comprising the complete human IGF-I sequence with the substitution of an Arg for the Glu at position 3 (hence R3), and a 13 amino acid extension peptide at the N-terminus (hence the long). This 13 amino acid "side chain" helps prevent the IGF-1 from being so easily bound by binding proteins, and thus increases its active window exponentially. Which of these you use depends on your goal.

HuIGF-1 is very short lived in the body (probable half life of approximately 10 minutes). This type of IGF-1 is very useful if you are seeking local site growth. Since it is so short lived, little if any of the IGF-1 makes it to other tissues and IGF-1 receptors in other parts of the body. The way to inject this is immediately post work out into the muscle that you wish to have local site growth. Use a U100 insulin syringe, and inject 100 - 300 mcgs (in some cases more) bilaterally into the desired muscle immediately post workout. For this type of IGF-1, I would use it workout days only.

For Long R3 IGF-1, it isnt as critical that you inject into a local site as long R3 has a active window of many hours (if not days), and is designed specifically to resist being bound by IGF binding proteins. 

Since it is common to reconstitute this type of IGF-1 with Benzyl Alcohol, Acetic Acid, or Hydrochloric Acid, I would still recommend that you inject intra-muscular. While for some purposes of nerve regrowth and other medical recovery purposes subQ is a somewhat superior injection method, it can and probably will leave a nice red irritated spot for a couple of weeks if you inject subQ, and it is not superior for our purposes of muscle growth anyway. 

I still inject into a muscle just worked to take advantage of increased IGF-1 receptors present as a result of tearing down muscles with my workout, but because of the long activity window of this type of IGF-1 any muscle will work well and give you good results. I would suggest that you inject between 80  120 mcgs per day everyday immediately post workout on workout days, and first thing in the morning on non-workout days.

The added bonus of using LR3 in our cycle is that fat loss will be accomplished while still eating a great number of clean calories per day. You will visibly see yourself leaning out from a couple of weeks in on while using LR3 at doses suggested here.

Use a U-100 insulin syringe with 1/2" needle to inject IGF-1 intramuscular (bilaterally for HuIGF-1, bilaterally optional for Long R3)

Insulin
Working out causes our muscles to end up in a catabolic state after a good hammering. It is important to back in a positive nitrogen balance as soon as possible. When not using insulin, we drink some dextrose with our protein to cause an insulin spike immediately post workout to help shuttle the protein and sugars to the muscles. 

Insulin is very good at shuttling nutrients to the muscles, and works in a very complimentary manner with GH in the types of things that they shuttle. Also, HGH can cause an amount of insulin resistance, so adding some insulin to your cycle will go a long ways toward reducing the elevated blood glucose levels caused by HGH's action of interfering with the liver's ability to uptake glucose, and thus help offset any potential resistance that might occur during your HGH cycle. Also by taking our HGH near the time of our insulin injection (immediately post workout) we are ensuring a great influx of growth factors after action on the liver. HGH + Slin passed through the liver = BIG secretion of growth factors. These growth factors will equate to muscle growth, rapid healing, etc.

For the purposes that we are using insulin, a dosage of 6-12IUs is adequate and should be used immediately post workout. I personally prefer using Humalog intramuscular as it will cause a rapid spike and clear out of your system quickly. You can use it subQ or use Humulin-R instead, but each of these will result in a longer active window, thus a longer time to avoid eating any fats and watching your carb intake. Any fats or over abundance of carbs will end up being stored as fat during insulin's active window. The approximate windows are:
Humalog - IM - 2-3 hours
Sub-q - 3-4 hours
Humulin -R - IM - 3-4 hours
Sub-q 4-5 hours

Use a U-100 insulin syringe with 1/2" needle to inject IM immediately post workout. Alternatively, you can inject subQ if desired or if you wish a longer active window for some reason. Begin with a dose of 4IU's or so, and increase the dose each workout day until you reach your desired 8-12IU's.

If for some reason you wish to avoid insulin, I would still suggest that immediately post workout you spike you own endogenous insulin by drinking 80 grams of dextrose / 40 grams of whey isolate protein. While this certainly won't do the work of 8-12 IU's of Humalog, it will most certainly assist getting your muscle back in a nitrogen positive environment in a short amount of time.


T3 or T4
HGH can (but certainly not universally) have a slight inhibitory effect on your thyroid. For most people this is minimal and does not require any additional thyroid be taken, but if you wish to augment protein synthesis as well as give yourself a slight metabolic boost in thyroid without shutting down your own production, you can add 12.5mcg of T3 or 50mcgs of T4 daily to your HGH, IGF-1, and Insulin cycle. This will aid both in bulking and cutting. 

If you add T3 or T4 to your cycle, you should also consider taking some thyroid support supplements such as t-100x, bladderwrack, and coleus forskolin. You should check and make sure your intake of trace minerals (selenium, zinc, copper) is sufficient to aid in the conversion of T4 to T3. 

If you are going to take more than 12.5 mcg of T3 or 50mcgs of T4, a wise method is to cycle the dose both up and down to avoid a rebound effect when going off the T3 portion of your cycle. While many profess they dont suffer from this rebound problem, I can personally attest to MANY that do. If you dont have a desire to find out whether you are one of the lucky ones or not, consider the ramp up/down to minimize the rebound. It is a real bummer to lose a bunch of fat only to pack it right back on because your metabolism is in the toilet for many weeks post thyroid cycling. The other consideration is that T3 is very indiscriminant in it stoking of the metabolic fire. It will happily burn both fat and lean tissue (muscle proteins are really attractive, easy marks), so I would only recommend its use at much above 25mcgs of T3 or 100mcgs of T4 per day (and definitely if used at 50mcgs of T3 or 200mcgs of T4 or above - at which point IGFBP's will rise significantly enough to be a consideration) if you are on a reasonably healthy anabolic cycle to protect your lean tissue. For strictly our use with an HGH cycle and use in assisting with protein synthesis, 12.5mcg of T3 or 50mcgs of T4 will be sufficient and will not be problematic. 

Also another consideration if cycling in higher doses, cycle your T3 in conjunction with your LR3 IGF-1 use. The thought behind this is that LR3 binds poorly to IGFBP's, so you will be able to use an elevated dose of T3 (which will likely increase IGFBP's) and still keep elevated IGF-1 levels. I would suggest that use of T3 above 25mcg's or T4 at doses above 100mcgs or so would not be advisable for too many 5 weeks segments of your complete cycle. As one of the major "anabolic" benefits of HGH use is elevated IGF-1 levels, we don't want to create an environment of radically increased IGF binding proteins. Abuse of T3 or T4 will go a long way in creating that environment hostile to IGF-1.

Well, I think that about covers the basic peptide suite all that is needed to complete this cycle is the addition of your preferred anabolic portion of the cycle a simple testosterone combo (cyp, e, prop, etc.) or a more complex cycle. In either event, add something along those lines and you have a great combination that can be tailored for whatever your goals may be.

I hope this guide helps get you going on the right path. Happy growing! 
RedBaron
(last updated 1/15/07) "

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## tarzenbond

Good thanks , Will post results !

I would like to confess that, I am writing on behalf of my bodybuilder friend so i sounded numb for few members but thanks for information.

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## thunderin

Looks like Tamil or Kerala script in the background. Many types of AAS and GH alike are available in both Trivandrum and Chennai. Excellent physique.

Rather than looking to increase your AAS dosage, is your diet in perfect order? For bulking, switching from rice to potatoes, yams and noodles can make a big difference, as can switching to mutton instead of fish and chicken. The GH will definitely help keep you leaner while adding extra weight. See how your body responds to 3iu's ed before upping your dose.

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## Test247

You look great. Im curious what anabolics you use, what types of cycles you run? Who wouldn't wanna look like this guy hes in great shape...

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