# STEROIDS FORUM > HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY- Low T, Anti-Aging >  TRT in Australia. Need to find a physician!!

## Movingmetal

Can anyone refer me to a trt doctor in australia? I live in Melbourne. My current doctor is no help

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## DanMan250

PM sent

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## kronik420

http://www.thetestoclinic.com.au

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## johnyz333

> http://www.thetestoclinic.com.au


Do not, I repeat, do not use the testoclinic!!!

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## DanMan250

> Do not, I repeat, do not use the testoclinic!!!


I could not agree more!!!

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## musclelover

It is so backward a primitive here in Australia.

You want trt you can do it all yourself this website has everything ever know about trt.

I have friends you have used this site for trt and are absolute experts and you save soooo much.

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## Ace111

> Do not, I repeat, do not use the testoclinic!!!





> I could not agree more!!!


Any reasons?
I was thinking of setting up an appointment with them.

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## kronik420

> Any reasons?
> I was thinking of setting up an appointment with them.


same, why whats wrong with them?

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## Heapsreal

Just looking further into their site they are big into testosterone creams. Anyone know if they would prescribe TestE or sustanon ??

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## johnyz333

> Just looking further into their site they are big into testosterone creams. Anyone know if they would prescribe TestE or sustanon??


Firstly they only prescribe some home made ' test lozenges', that is their only form of treatment.

Secondly, they diagnose you on the phone with a supposed doctor. But before they do that, they pre charge your credit card for $1500. You don't ever get to see anyone in person, it's a phone service and the test lozenges are shipped to you.

I don't know how they are still aloud to legally operate. Google them, their is a telegraph article on them. 

As for their test lozenges, they may or may not work, don't know anyone that has tried them. But seriously, how can you be diagnosed by a doctor over the phone with no medical records or bloodwork, and then ship you a years supply of test lozenges.. It's insane!

Go see your GP an then refer to an endo.

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## Movingmetal

Self treatment sounds good to me, but how would you get the testosterone legally if your self treating? Can the doctor still give me scripts and i do it myself?

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## DanMan250

> Self treatment sounds good to me, but how would you get the testosterone legally if your self treating? Can the doctor still give me scripts and i do it myself?


If you go to a doc who knows his knackers from his knees he will give you a script for test and let you treat yourself. He may suggest using a cream or gel first that needs to be applied every day but if you tell him that you would much prefer injections, that will be ok too. Shots are much quicker and less hassle but generally need to be done twice a week to give the most stable hormone levels. If using Primoteston/Test Enanthate you will only need to inject about 0.2ml every 3-4 days. You can even use a 30g pin which doesn't cause any muscle trauma and is painless but just takes a little longer.

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## DanMan250

> Firstly they only prescribe some home made ' test lozenges', that is their only form of treatment.
> 
> Secondly, they diagnose you on the phone with a supposed doctor. But before they do that, they pre charge your credit card for $1500. You don't ever get to see anyone in person, it's a phone service and the test lozenges are shipped to you.
> 
> I don't know how they are still aloud to legally operate. Google them, their is a telegraph article on them. 
> 
> As for their test lozenges, they may or may not work, don't know anyone that has tried them. But seriously, how can you be diagnosed by a doctor over the phone with no medical records or bloodwork, and then ship you a years supply of test lozenges.. It's insane!
> 
> Go see your GP an then refer to an endo.


Good post although you are wrong about asking your doc to refer you to an endo. 99.99% of them are completely clueless! You need to find a doc who specializes in male hormones.

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## Heapsreal

look for a doc who calls himself an Intergrative practioner, theyare usually up on TRT, also ask a compounding chemist which docs in the area treat patients with TRT.

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## Movingmetal

I spoke to 3 endos who were useless. They stated that a level of 8nmol/l is in the normal range. I'm 21 and 8 is not acceptable to me. I recently saw a testosterone specialiast who is not an endo, and he has my best interests at heart. I am
Now on testogel daily and can change to injections if I want. He said its his priority to keep me in the upper ranges. Happy man I am

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## johnyz333

> I spoke to 3 endos who were useless. They stated that a level of 8nmol/l is in the normal range. I'm 21 and 8 is not acceptable to me. I recently saw a testosterone specialiast who is not an endo, and he has my best interests at heart. I am
> Now on testogel daily and can change to injections if I want. He said its his priority to keep me in the upper ranges. Happy man I am


Good outcome mate, I was in the same position as you.

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## Heapsreal

Spoke with an antiaging clinic on the Gold coast, they sell the test cream after seeing their doc and getting a blood test. test cream is 10% and they recommend 1ml twice a day and this costs $180 a month. From what i have read though 1ml of 10% a day is enought for TRT, the antiaging clinic said this when i said $180 a month was expensive, they then said one could use 1ml a day and that whould then cost $90 a month.

I have a few quotes on test cream from compounding pharmacies, one place said $140 for 100ml 10%(thats 100 days at 1ml), thats alot cheaper then the antiaging clinic where obviously they are getting a good cut of the profits of the compounded T cream. If one could find a doc to prescribe T cream for TRT then maybe alot more cost effective then the antiaging clinic i spoke to.

Out of interest this same clinic said that they sell Gh therapy at a cost of over $800 a month, the same compounding chemist i got the price for T cream quote GH for $300 for a month. Antiaging medicine is all about them making money.

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## DanMan250

> Spoke with an antiaging clinic on the Gold coast, they sell the test cream after seeing their doc and getting a blood test. test cream is 10% and they recommend 1ml twice a day and this costs $180 a month. From what i have read though 1ml of 10% a day is enought for TRT, the antiaging clinic said this when i said $180 a month was expensive, they then said one could use 1ml a day and that whould then cost $90 a month.
> 
> I have a few quotes on test cream from compounding pharmacies, one place said $140 for 100ml 10%(thats 100 days at 1ml), thats alot cheaper then the antiaging clinic where obviously they are getting a good cut of the profits of the compounded T cream. If one could find a doc to prescribe T cream for TRT then maybe alot more cost effective then the antiaging clinic i spoke to.
> 
> Out of interest this same clinic said that they sell Gh therapy at a cost of over $800 a month, the same compounding chemist i got the price for T cream quote GH for $300 for a month. Antiaging medicine is all about them making money.


Total rip off! Find a doc who will prescribe you Primoteston Depot (test enanthate ). It will only cost you $28 for a 2 month supply, so just $168 for an entire year! Creams and gels are a pain in the ass if u ask me

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## Heapsreal

Dont quote me on this but i think because test E and sustanon are covered under the PBS there are different requirements on eligability for them eg i think u need 3 morning blood tests showing low Total T, i dont think freeT levels come into it. Compounded creams arent covered by PBS so pay full price and a doc can prescribe them for low normal T and freeT without scrutiny of PBS.

I agree with ya, IM Test would be best. Im in a wait and see with my doc as im under going other treatments that could effect my T.

cheers!!!

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## DanMan250

> Dont quote me on this but i think because test E and sustanon are covered under the PBS there are different requirements on eligability for them eg i think u need 3 morning blood tests showing low Total T, i dont think freeT levels come into it. Compounded creams arent covered by PBS so pay full price and a doc can prescribe them for low normal T and freeT without scrutiny of PBS.
> 
> I agree with ya, IM Test would be best. Im in a wait and see with my doc as im under going other treatments that could effect my T.
> 
> cheers!!!


Sustanon is now only available on a private script in Australia and from what i've heard they are phasing it out. You only need to have 2 blood tests under 8nmol to qualify for government subsidized TRT. Some docs will still prescribe Primoteston to patients if their levels are "low normal" on a private script. This is purely up to the docs discretion and it is not illegal for the doc to do this. Believe it or not the private script price for Primoteston is exactly the same as the PBS price!

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## Heapsreal

probably phasing out sust as they are bring T-deconate so they dont have any competition for it??
I have noticed that the price of sust has gone up as it was the same as primoteston awhile ago, around the $30 for 3 amps, now its like $90.

I did come across a compounding pharmacy selling Test Prop 10ml-50mg/ml $60, they recomending .4ml 3 times a week, thats only a touch over 50mg a week(Strange)?? i suppose dr can prescribe any dose they want, u would want 50mg twice a week minimum??

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## DanMan250

> probably phasing out sust as they are bring T-deconate so they dont have any competition for it??
> I have noticed that the price of sust has gone up as it was the same as primoteston awhile ago, around the $30 for 3 amps, now its like $90.
> 
> I did come across a compounding pharmacy selling Test Prop 10ml-50mg/ml $60, they recomending .4ml 3 times a week, thats only a touch over 50mg a week(Strange)?? i suppose dr can prescribe any dose they want, u would want 50mg twice a week minimum??


Yeah maybe bcoz now they have Reandron and Primoteston and Testogel they think there is no need for Sust as well. 50mg a week would be too low for most guys although i've come across one guy who feels great injecting 20mg 3 times a week. Most guys need around 100mg a week on average and it is best split into 2 doses to keep blood levels stable. I'm living in the UK now and doing 40mg every 3.5 days along with 100iu hCG ED.

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## Sarmc1

With the cream is 1ml per day in the morning enough, its so exspensive in australia

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## mikzsan

There are some compounding places here in Melb that can get you 10% T test 120ml total for about $110. I get from ACP in sydney..its a bit more at 146 shipped, but they have a very good rep. It comes in tube syringes so you can accurately extract any dose you want. 


I only get a mild effect though, but doc says its seems to work for alot of patients. I did try some free sample testogel packs he gave me once and noticed a very positive response, but I didnt qualify for PBS so didn't want to pay 270 a month for it. I don't think Ill continue with the compounded cream, as I just don't have much faith anymore. Sure on paper it works, but they just havn't gone through the same trials/testing as Testogel. If you qualify for TRT on the PBS (hard to do!) and want to use topical, use testogel!

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## johnhenry

I have been looking into this myself - there is a place in Ballina, NSW called Custom Medicine www.custommedicine.com.au The website has lots of good info on it. Prices for their custom compounded T gels are good. They also supply T proprionate injectable. They post orders to you also. JH.

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## Sarmc1

can anyone sugest a trt doctor in sydney? currently using a cream but its a pain in the ass and exspensive

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## NJA82

> Sustanon is now only available on a private script in Australia and from what i've heard they are phasing it out. You only need to have 2 blood tests under 8nmol to qualify for government subsidized TRT. Some docs will still prescribe Primoteston to patients if their levels are "low normal" on a private script. This is purely up to the docs discretion and it is not illegal for the doc to do this. Believe it or not the private script price for Primoteston is exactly the same as the PBS price!


Sorry to drag up an old thread but this really interests me, i have been having trouble getting treatment from my GP, i have 2 blood tests well below 8nmol ( 3.1 and 5.5 ) yet because another test i had done was only ever so slightly in range ( just above minimum at 11.1 ( 10-35 range ) he wont treat me and says im fine, im definitely not fine, have been struggling for quite some time with low libido and energy overall, i have been diagnosed with secondary hypogonadism by the pathology doctors yet my GP reckons im to young at 30 to have this problem...

With these 2 blood tests where and how could I find a GP to take me seriously and help me out? Seriously to the point now of wanting to self medicate as i have a very good knowledge of whats required, specific protocols and how to interpret my bloods. Be nice if i didnt have to resort to that though.

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## 20YO

> Sorry to drag up an old thread but this really interests me, i have been having trouble getting treatment from my GP, i have 2 blood tests well below 8nmol ( 3.1 and 5.5 ) yet because another test i had done was only ever so slightly in range ( just above minimum at 11.1 ( 10-35 range ) he wont treat me and says im fine, im definitely not fine, have been struggling for quite some time with low libido and energy overall, i have been diagnosed with secondary hypogonadism by the pathology doctors yet my GP reckons im to young at 30 to have this problem...
> 
> With these 2 blood tests where and how could I find a GP to take me seriously and help me out? Seriously to the point now of wanting to self medicate as i have a very good knowledge of whats required, specific protocols and how to interpret my bloods. Be nice if i didnt have to resort to that though.



Im in a similar boat mate. im in South Aus, wondering if any one can point me in direction of good docs/compounding pharmacies? willing to travel if need be!

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## elec

Hi Guys, I'm from melbourne aus and been training at spartans for 3 yrs approx .Please can you's help me out. I have a lower test level than my 60 YR OLD DAD !! I'm 28 got 4 kids, got the snip , and am sick of going to doctors who say i'm in the 'normal range' because i don't feel normal. I got a test at the peak of my training - S TESTO 14.6 (NORMAL RANGE 12-31.9) , S SHBG 21 (NORMAL RANGE 17-56). I felt lethargic,weak,tired,no motivation, no 'drive', very low libido,moody,get hot flushes,ab fat, got depressed, etc etc. Doc's said it was caffeine, maybe some of the sups messing with me ,too stressed with work, so stopped it all of it. No sups , 8-10 hrs sleep per night , no heavy training , eating very healthy,now,worse after 3 months . Fck.

BTW I have tried 'TESTOCLINIC' and it was a scam , a complete waist of my money did nothing and they only sent half of the ""medicine"" 

Can anyone please send me a docs name in eastern suburbs melbourne who will actually give a stuff !I don't care if its not bulk billing. Some of the guys in this post have had some luck with it. All i want is to be kept in the peak of the normal levels. Its not asking too much i think ! I know there is something wrong with me. I was not like this all my life!

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## thehvacdude

Does anyone know of a doctor in Brisbane/Gold Coast who specializes in TRT? I'm 29 with a total test of 12nmol/L which i believe is about the average of a 70 year old man  :Frown: 

* My sex drive is down
* I feel lethargic
* I find it hard to concentrate
* I lifted more weight at the gym when i was 24
* I often start to feel tired to the point where im falling asleep if im sitting down anytime after midday.
* I get moody

The above symptoms began at about 25 but have progressively worsened as i have aged to the point were i'm no longer interested in having sex etc etc 

I only discovered that my test levels were low this week but my current GP seeme to think 12nmol/L T/T & 29pmol/L F/T is acceptable so i'm looking for a doctor who has my best interests at heart & will help me get my test levels back up to where they should be for a 29yo male, i'm happy to inject rather than use creams etc.

PLEASE HELP!!!

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## johnhenry

> Does anyone know of a doctor in Brisbane/Gold Coast who specializes in TRT? I'm 29 with a total test of 12nmol/L which i believe is about the average of a 70 year old man 
> 
> * My sex drive is down
> * I feel lethargic
> * I find it hard to concentrate
> * I lifted more weight at the gym when i was 24
> * I often start to feel tired to the point where im falling asleep if im sitting down anytime after midday.
> * I get moody
> 
> ...


I live in Toowoomba - have educated my GP & he writes scripts. Might be inconvenient, but it's a nice drive  :Smilie: .

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## thehvacdude

> I live in Toowoomba - have educated my GP & he writes scripts. Might be inconvenient, but it's a nice drive .


I'd definitely be interested to speak with a doctor who has been educated in the field, can you pm me his details? Also love to pick your brain about the topic if i can?

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## johnhenry

Be happy to talk to you. JH. Not sure how the PM function works.

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## Janvier

Hi Everyone, sorry to resurrect this old thread, but I have the same problem - Need to find a physician! Can anyone refer me to a trt doctor in australia? I live in Melbourne. My current doctor has NFI.

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## Janvier

Hi Everyone, sorry to resurrect this old thread, but I have the same problem - Need to find a physician! Can anyone refer me to a trt doctor in australia? I live in Melbourne. My current doctor has NFI.

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## scruffy67

> Hi Everyone, sorry to resurrect this old thread, but I have the same problem - Need to find a physician! Can anyone refer me to a trt doctor in australia? I live in Melbourne. My current doctor has NFI.


Sorry to re bump this but also looking for someone in Melbourne my bloods are 12 nmol/l with all the typical other symptoms please pm me,

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## murt112

> I spoke to 3 endos who were useless. They stated that a level of 8nmol/l is in the normal range. I'm 21 and 8 is not acceptable to me. I recently saw a testosterone specialiast who is not an endo, and he has my best interests at heart. I am
> Now on testogel daily and can change to injections if I want. He said its his priority to keep me in the upper ranges. Happy man I am


Hey mate,

Sorry to drag such an old post up but was wondering if you could direct me to the doctor you consulted? Tried to PM but can't do so yet.

Appreciate it!

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## yettibecsuse

I have a great one in Brisbane, he is one of the UQ Med lectures old school but is on the ball

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## weightpunk

Please send me a private message with a doctor in Brisbane that understands TRT well and won't screw me around. 

My current doctor is just screwing me around  :Frown:  forcing me to take sleep apnea tests etc before he will even refer me to an endocrinologist... Even though I have no symptoms or family history of sleep apnea at all.

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## weightpunk

Or email please... Tempest.seven at gmail

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## cptn.cr4zy8

Hey guys,
Same with me I am also very interested to find a good doc in Melbourne!
You can pm me if preferred! Thank you!
Cheers

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## weightpunk

How many posts until I can PM?, yettibecsuse can you please PM me the name of the doctor or email me at tempest.seven at gmail dot com

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## weightpunk

yettibecsuse is online now, but I can't PM him... if someone else can please do it for me and ask him to email me at tempest.seven at gmail dot com I would be so so grateful

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## Heapsreal

Please PM me of doctors in brisbane who prescribe trt injections, T cream is crap.

I think my problem is i dont fit the strict criteria as my total T is generally ok, usually in the mid to high teens (normal range 10-33) but my free T has always measured low for the last 7 years, normal range is 60-130 and i have tests between 35 and 57 for freeT.

I have done some injections of sustanon that i have sourced but this wont last forever?? but man it makes a big difference, i feel alot better, i dont roll out of bed in pain with my bad back and niggly little pains have been clearing up etc. My exercise has been very irregular due to low energy and ability to recover but with some real T on board im recovering well from workouts and strength increasing quite rapidly. Im maintaining my weight even though my appetite is increasing but my waist has gone down. Only very early days so see how much more improvement.

Would really like to have a doctor on board??

So i think this is telling me my low freeT is an issue and treating it will fix alot of general issues i have.

cheers!!

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## Orion1982

I know it's an old thread I'm also looking for a good doc that knows what they're doing I'm in adelaide or interstate is ok so sick of being told I'm normal nothing wrong with me

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## Heapsreal

> I know it's an old thread I'm also looking for a good doc that knows what they're doing I'm in adelaide or interstate is ok so sick of being told I'm normal nothing wrong with me


i think its getting worse now, a friend of mine saw his doctor recently for some hormone tests and asked for a free T test, the doc replied that they no longer do it as its inaccurate and is some sort of recommendation by the health authorities, maybe trying to save money on testing. It seems they are slowly squeezing shut the opportunity to treat men with TRT in australia. My doc will prescribe T cream but injections he said he cant as the criteria is too tight to put most men on trt, unless you have had your balls ripped off somehow?

I guess this will turn into another underground business.

good luck.

ps maybe a short course of nolvadex may restart a low test level??

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## ozraw

> I spoke to 3 endos who were useless. They stated that a level of 8nmol/l is in the normal range. I'm 21 and 8 is not acceptable to me. I recently saw a testosterone specialiast who is not an endo, and he has my best interests at heart. I am
> Now on testogel daily and can change to injections if I want. He said its his priority to keep me in the upper ranges. Happy man I am


i know a man in Adelaide who will give you just about anything you want within reason

im on test gels and HGH all on script

im an old fart tho

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## Roger11

Yup TRT in australia is quite hard to get now days, its basically self medicating, which isnt the right thing to do, but also quite easy if you know how to do it and if your access to getting bloods isnt to tight.

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## ozraw

> Yup TRT in australia is quite hard to get now days, its basically self medicating, which isnt the right thing to do, but also quite easy if you know how to do it and if your access to getting bloods isnt to tight.


when I got tested I got an option of test gels, sustanon , reandaron, pellets and of course primotestin
and this is in Adelaide, you just have to look harder. mind you it wasn't cheap

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## Roger11

> when I got tested I got an option of test gels, sustanon , reandaron, pellets and of course primotestin
> and this is in Adelaide, you just have to look harder. mind you it wasn't cheap


Guess your doctor doesnt care if he is audited and license lost and possibly faces legal issues then hey? Cos i find this very very hard to believe.

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## Heapsreal

Im not sure if there is a difference between compound pharmacies or not?

I was getting pregnenolone cream which worked well from them and a T cream but the T cream did squat and eventually the preg didnt seem to do much, so unsure if quality was turning crap.

I have changed compound pharmacies and the preg gave me a boost of energy when i started using it, although early days the T cream seems to also have better effects. I will get some testinjg done in a few weeks to see??

If the laws werent so dam strict, we wouldnt need to go through alot of this trial and error. There is a big difference between the Tcream and injections??

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## Gizmoe76

Hi, New too the Forums, but who was the GP in the Toowoomba area or can someone in the know PM me?

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## bigdil511

The cream will lose effectiveness over time that's why injections are the better option.

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## Roger11

For those on TRT or looking to get on TRT in Australia, just a heads up, that the requirement has now been made even harder to have it prescribed, the government is now making you test under 6nmol as opposed to 8nmol before being treated. 

Good luck lol.

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## CASSIUSKLAY

Hi there, looking for a specialist in Melbourne, can you help with that? Thanks

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## lowt2014

Hey all

Can someone please let me know the physician who can help me recover my HPTA, I was on TRT for 10 months and because I had E2 related side effects, My endo and myself both decided to stop TRT, it has been over 12 months now and my HPTA still not fully recovered and recent BW shows Total Testosterone was 8 nmol/L *Ref 8-27 nmol/L*.

Unable to even recover from moderate exercise now, My endo do not believe in restarting HPTA so I just waited it out for 12 months in hopes of natural recovery but this hasn't happened and LH level were 2.2 pnmol *Ref 2-12*.

Melbourne, Australia

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## kelkel

lowT this thread's about a year old. Why don't you copy and paste your post into a new threat on this forum please.

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## lowt2014

Didn't want to create a new thread that is all I thought this would be a good idea as people already from the same region where I am...

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## Greg A

LowT i think you should have had hcg and then SERMS like noladex or clomid and later AIs to contol estrogen. 
Im going through it now. About to quit trt. But I dont know how to get SERMS . Can anyone point me in the right direction. Im need nolvadex and aromasin . 
Would love to have a doctor on board for it all. They treat trt with clomid and AIs in the U.S but here in Australia it seems that doctors have their head in the ground.

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## Greg A

Are there any doctors that do hpta restarts. Or do i have to move to switzerland or somewhere with decent doctors.

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## PilotETLS

> I have a great one in Brisbane, he is one of the UQ Med lectures old school but is on the ball


Im sorry to bump this but really looking to see if you can help. I am based on Brisbane and looking for someone to provide a script for TRT. If you could reply with the docs name that would be much appreciated.

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## Xanode

I would like to throw in my 2c here:

If you don't wanna read my wall of text, and you want the most up-to-date info out of the US on trt protocols, please do yourself a favor and please listen to this podcast https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZyptAoqnJw featuring Dr. John crisler, top trt physician in the US, there is so much good info contained it's not funny. There are also many more on youtube with a wealth of info.

ATTENTION: if an endo ever offers you reandron 1000, proceed to run 100ks in the other direction, as this means that the endo has absolutely no clue on how to properly administer trt.

I have been on trt for 4 yrs now. Diagnosed with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism(central hypogonadism) due to a benign pituitary tumor. I felt good up until age 27 which is when I guess the tumor started shutting me down.

Now, in my case I don't just have low T levels, I literally have no levels of T in my body if i stop trt. My body has completely, lost the ability to produce testosterone .

All I have to say is that the state of trt in Australia is abysmal, most docs are using protocols from the 80s-90s.

And to say I have been on the trt treatment rollercoaster is the understatement of the century.

The first treatment offered to me was reandrom 1000, which is Testosterone undecanoate 1000mg shot every 8 -12 weeks, so that's 1gram of test(in my case) every 10 weeks. After everything i have learned about trt protocols in the past 4 yrs i have since learned that this is THE WORST TRT PROTOCOL EVER DEVISED. 

I don't care how fancy an ester they put on it, 1 gram of test isn't going to stay in your body anywhere close to 8 - 12 weeks, let alone maintain a steady state.

The goal of trt is to get your hormone panel as close to a healthy males in their late 20's that has high-normal to high t lvls, no less, no more, and test is just one hormone and a small piece of the puzzle, you need the whole panel checked and adjusted to feel as good as possible.

My current situ is that im now on the max dose of gels which is working quite well. I'm definitely allot closer to steady state.

I'm yet to find a decent endo though, I'm just lucky my endo gives me whatever I want, but that's only because of my diagnosis, I'm sure if I presented with general low T, it would be a whole diff story.

i have literally been teaching my endo trt along the way, went from reandron, enenthate - every 3 weeks(which is the second worst [rotolcol you could ever be prescribed) to every 2w, then now onto the gels, which i have felt the best on and no longer have ANY PEAKS AND VALLEYS.

But endo still refuses to check anything other tha the standard blood panel, with total t thrown in, and had to beg him to get estrogen tested, again just abysmal treatment but I cant find another endo that bulk bills, so god only knows what the rest of my hormones are doing, all I can do is monitor myself closely for high e symtoms, atlest the gels are very easy to quckly adjust dosage and changes are felt in under 3 days with them. If you listen to the podcast mentioned above, according to dr crisler the best steady stae is achived with gels as long as everything else is in place correctly also.

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## evolve__

> I have a great one in Brisbane, he is one of the UQ Med lectures old school but is on the ball


hey mate could you please email me this bloke id really appreciate mattyoung92 at gmail dot com

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