# COMPETITIVE BODYBUILDING - POWERLIFTING - ATHLETICS & SPORTS > COMPETITIVE BODYBUILDING Q & A >  ask metalject anything?

## gearbox

I have pm him multiple times with questions so I want to start a thread so others can ask quick questions and browse here for future reference.

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## gearbox

I asked in pm about proviron and response was posted

Personal experience with it, I never used it a lot, did some but not a ton. I never noticed a big difference when I used it. I have some friends that swear by the stuff and seem to think all their other gear works much better when they use it, and these guys aren't idiots. They have just as much gear use under their belt as me if not more in some cases. I've had some good experience adding Winstrol to cycles for the sole purpose of lowering SHBG to help make everything else work better. That always seemed to work better for me than Proviron but of course you have the downside of liver stress with the Winstrol. 

think people fear asking a stupid question. But this is the thread. No cycle questions please from newbies.
I asked in pm about proviron and response was posted above  :Smilie:

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## gearbox

I asked him about a high carb cheat meal even in contest prep and about running tne for pre workout. Seems like it would be difficult to control e2.

Depends on the guy. In my opinion, most do well with one single cheat meal a week, and by cheat I really do mean cheat. The competitors I work with, if they do a keto diet it's one cheat meal per week, that's it. The really advanced guys who are superior genetics might get a bit of a clean cheat meal in the middle of the week as well, but that's normally gone by 5wks out or so. If they're not doing a keto plan, there's basically a steady amount of carbs every day with one or two days of slightly higher carbs and a cheat meal. As the diet progresses, the carbs decrease if and as needed. Pretty simple really. 

If we're talking bodybuilders, none of those guys are controlling E2. Bodybuilders walk around with E2 through the roof or completely crashed and bottomed out. Well, I shouldn't say all but most. Anyway, yes TNE is pretty awesome stuff, very effective pre workout boost, probably one of the best

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## gearbox

What do you or most your show clients walk around at bf %; wise. I know many people on here think everyone is 15% or if he has decent abs he has to be 10% which is not even close to true.

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## Metalject

> What do you or most your show clients walk around at bf %; wise. I know many people on here think everyone is 15% or if he has decent abs he has to be 10% which is not even close to true.


Hard to say since it can vary so much from one guy to the next. I've had plenty of guys start way too heavy because they got overly obsessed with size in the off-season, every bit of 20%+. That makes for an even harder diet but they usually make it through. Anyway, I really don't worry too much about the actual percentage but rather what you're looking like. 

Another thing, the 10% and abs deal or this or that percent is far more often incorrect than not. Everyone holds fat in different areas and more importantly lose it in different areas before others. If you happen to be me, my legs and back can look 4wks out while my stomach still looks 12wks out, lol! Gut fat is always the last to go for me. Things do get progressively better in the gut as the diet moves forward, but that area still takes the longest. 

True story - one of the first competitors I ever worked with, by 8wks out his upper body was nearly shredded. If you looked at a pic and posted it of him on the main board (upper body only) everyone would be saying he's at least 6% if not leaner, and they'd say so emphatically. But his lower body, legs smooth as they could get and a fat ass. He'd always lean out just fine, did a lot of shows with him but he was upside down in terms of where he held fat compared to most men. 

Anyway, myself currently - I don't know. I don't compete anymore. I'm just a regular guy who likes to go to the gym and eat boring food because I don't know what else to do, lol! Still veiny in some areas and got a little pudge in the middle. Maybe I'll post a pic or two if it helps people feel better, lol!

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## gearbox

No pics needed. I was curious on your clients. I struggle with bulking cause I lose what little abs I have and its depressing. I'm more into a slow bulk now. Just barely above maintenance calories letting the was do more ôf the work. Not saying its ideal but currently trying it. I would like to step on stage some day just to experience it at least once. I need to build my legs and chest. Both are extremely small even for a lighter guy like myself.

What are your thoughts on t3? Doses duration

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## Metalject

I'm a big fan of T3 and in my opinion, the fear that surrounds it is highly overrated. There are plenty of extremely dangerous things out there that you can use and really mess yourself up, but T3 isn't one of them. 

Myself: I've used T3 for years, often the vast majority of the year. From the age of 26 or so until 31 I used it I'd say 8 months out of the year in total on average. Once I stopped using it, no blood work for a year and finally blood work and my thyroid was fine. And I know countless guys who can say the same. Sure, there's a lagging period when you come off but it's not anything you can't deal with. 

Competitors: Use usually runs anywhere from 8-16wks depending on the guy (show prep). Dose always starts at 50mcg/ed and ramps up as needed 25-50mcg per increase. Most all end up around 75mcg at minimum, plenty end up in the 150 range. I've had a few guys go as high as 200mcg/ed and I've done so myself, but that's a little rough. A lot of people feel a little zapped on T3 anyway in terms of energy and I don't care who you are, at 200mcg you're going to feel it. hard to stay at that high of a dose for too long. Personally I've never had uncontrollable hunger issues due to it but it seems more people do have this struggle. My biggest issue with it is how hot I am all the time, it's a little annoying. 

Currently I do use a little T3 periodically with my TRT. Get it from the site sponsor. Very good product IMO.

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## gearbox

Thats why I like this thread so much. Real stage competitor and how things are done. 
I have used at 50 mcg then I went to 75 and 100. Funny thing was I didn't notice any difference from 50 to 100. My results were my overall waist got more thin as a whole. Did not shred up or tone up. It was awesome losing inches when I was already thin. 

Maybe thats how Arnold got the small waist huge chest. Haha

thanks again buddy. I know people are lurking and reading the info.

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## Capebuffalo

Gear are you planning to compete?

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## gearbox

> Gear are you planning to compete?


Nope. I have a job wife and 4 month old son. There my priorities. I am going to get as shredded as possible and try to maintain it. Hopefully something like 7%

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## Capebuffalo

> Nope. I have a job wife and 4 month old son. There my priorities. I am going to get as shredded as possible and try to maintain it. Hopefully something like 7%


I feel ya. 7% is shredded may be hard to maintain for a length if time. 
Good luck. Any pics though out the process?

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## Metalject

> I feel ya. 7% is shredded may be hard to maintain for a length if time. 
> Good luck. Any pics though out the process?


Agreed. There is no way I could maintain 7% even drugged out to the nines, at least not without going insane.

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## gearbox

7% may be a little too low. I will have to wait and see. 

Metal- I may not have a good idea of what 7% is or even 9% bf is In my head. My idea once I get there would be 50 mins fasted cardio 7x a week and lifting with clean diet 70/10/20. 

Cape- I am doing a slow slow bulk right now. More maintenance cause I want very little fat. I watch my diet and mirror pics closely and adjust accordingly. When I cut again hopefully soon ill let you see before and after.
My last cut I got to about 11% I think. Didnt body pod it though. I posted a abs pics in my "were pregnant" thread if you remember.

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## Capebuffalo

Would love to see the progress.

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## gearbox

I'll take pre post just for you. Probably abs section only but we will see. Still 8 weeks or so of my maintenance bulk I'm trying

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## Capebuffalo

Gear I looked the pic up in pregnancy. You were 10-12 % I think. You looked good. And did it with a pregnant woman in the house. Lol

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## gearbox

> Gear I looked the pic up in pregnancy. You were 10-12 % I think. You looked good. And did it with a pregnant woman in the house. Lol


wife handled the pregnancy well  :Smilie:  I think I was closer to 12% but I didn't get around to getting a body pod. I even called to set up a time and the lady was on vacation for that whole week and didn't call back. I will after this next cut once I get some little gains hopefully in the next 10 weeks or so. I am never doing a big bulk again that's for sure. took me 16 weeks of 45+ min fasted cardio to drop down to that pics cause I was 15%+

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## gearbox

metal-
after research it seems that in order to get close to lets says 7% is will take a lot of cardio. A few peeps are getting stage ready and they hit cardio 3x a day for 50 mins each session to shred up. of course they will go past 7%. As I right in this assumption that to stay or get to 7% its cardio. cause you can only restrict calories so much

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## Metalject

> metal-
> after research it seems that in order to get close to lets says 7% is will take a lot of cardio. A few peeps are getting stage ready and they hit cardio 3x a day for 50 mins each session to shred up. of course they will go past 7%. As I right in this assumption that to stay or get to 7% its cardio. cause you can only restrict calories so much


It depends on the guy. Some need more cardio than others and some (very, very few) need very little. There are those with such gifted genetics when it comes to their metabolism that they don't have to diet as long or do as much cardio. But again, that doesn't apply to most. Anyway, you can do a lot to manipulate things with drugs, which is what a lot of guys do. Diet and cardio are important like everyone says but drugs are the single most important factor. Most don't like saying or admitting that but that doesn't make it any less true.

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## Capebuffalo

> It depends on the guy. Some need more cardio than others and some (very, very few) need very little. There are those with such gifted genetics when it comes to their metabolism that they don't have to diet as long or do as much cardio. But again, that doesn't apply to most. Anyway, you can do a lot to manipulate things with drugs, which is what a lot of guys do. Diet and cardio are important like everyone says but drugs are the single most important factor. Most don't like saying or admitting that but that doesn't make it any less true.



For what it's worth I never did cardio during show prep. And regarding your statement above on drugs, prep was test, tren , injectable winny, mast, t3, and clen . I had such low bf I had to back load slin pins because you would see knots otherwise at the injection sites.

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## Metalject

> For what it's worth I never did cardio during show prep. And regarding your statement above on drugs, prep was test, tren, injectable winny, mast, t3, and clen. I had such low bf I had to back load slin pins because you would see knots otherwise at the injection sites.


I've backloaded insulin syringes quite a few times as well. And you're a lucky guy. Not too many can get away with no cardio. I currently do 40min a day 5-6 days a wk after weight training pretty well year round. I got so used to having to do two plus hours a day for years that 40min is nothing. Only reason I do it now is because if I don't I can't eat as much and my appetite goes away and I just feel better when I do it.

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## gearbox

When you say manipulate drugs what do you mean exactly? I see many guys walking around pretty lean but I doubt there all on test tren mast etc.. obviously maybe a 500 trt dose with blasts.

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## Metalject

> When you say manipulate drugs what do you mean exactly? I see many guys walking around pretty lean but I doubt there all on test tren mast etc.. obviously maybe a 500 trt dose with blasts.


Why would you doubt they're on these things? 

And just to clarify, I didn't say "manipulate drugs" I said you can "manipulate things with drugs" things being your body. Just some random examples that helped me:

*T3 - started using it in the off-season, stayed leaner, diet was easier, looked better. 

*EOD or ED injections with even large/long esters. I don't have factual answers as to why this works better, only theories but it works. For myself, 1750mg of test-e/wk was always split into 7 weekly injections...well, not always but once I realized how much easier it was to control this way. 

*Masteron and Tren in the off-season: I've done periods of these in my off-season quite a few times. Obviously the two are far more important in the contest phase but 8-12wks of that in the off-season always put a smile on my face. Granted, wasn't the only thing I'd use and was by no means the base...base was usually testosterone and nandrolone , not much else. Other things at times but test and nadrolone were on top. 

*HGH: manipulates everything if you use enough - rules go out the window.

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## Capebuffalo

> Why would you doubt they're on these things? 
> 
> And just to clarify, I didn't say "manipulate drugs" I said you can "manipulate things with drugs" things being your body. Just some random examples that helped me:
> 
> *T3 - started using it in the off-season, stayed leaner, diet was easier, looked better. 
> 
> *EOD or ED injections with even large/long esters. I don't have factual answers as to why this works better, only theories but it works. For myself, 1750mg of test-e/wk was always split into 7 weekly injections...well, not always but once I realized how much easier it was to control this way. 
> 
> *Masteron and Tren in the off-season: I've done periods of these in my off-season quite a few times. Obviously the two are far more important in the contest phase but 8-12wks of that in the off-season always put a smile on my face. Granted, wasn't the only thing I'd use and was by no means the base...base was usually testosterone and nandrolone , not much else. Other things at times but test and nadrolone were on top. 
> ...


I run both test e or c ed. Eod at a minimum. I don't feel peaks and valleys this way. Tren off season yes. Mast for me is a no. My bf isn't low enough to see any result or benefit from it. 

Real hgh will change you in serious ways if run long enough. 

Diet has to change weekly. I would have to recalculate everything on Sundays after I weighed. I looked at the scale once a week on Sunday then started plugging in numbers and getting the grocery list together.

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## gearbox

> Why would you doubt they're on these things? 
> 
> And just to clarify, I didn't say "manipulate drugs" I said you can "manipulate things with drugs" things being your body. Just some random examples that helped me:
> 
> *T3 - started using it in the off-season, stayed leaner, diet was easier, looked better. 
> 
> *EOD or ED injections with even large/long esters. I don't have factual answers as to why this works better, only theories but it works. For myself, 1750mg of test-e/wk was always split into 7 weekly injections...well, not always but once I realized how much easier it was to control this way. 
> 
> *Masteron and Tren in the off-season: I've done periods of these in my off-season quite a few times. Obviously the two are far more important in the contest phase but 8-12wks of that in the off-season always put a smile on my face. Granted, wasn't the only thing I'd use and was by no means the base...base was usually testosterone and nandrolone , not much else. Other things at times but test and nadrolone were on top. 
> ...


Funny you mentioned ed or eod injections with long ester. I have switch to eod and can feel a difference over 2x a week.

Training- did it change when you were on vs off heavy compounds. Just learned from a few peeps they lift 6-7 days a week almost every muscle group 2x a week or close. what are your thoughts

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## gearbox

> I run both test e or c ed. Eod at a minimum. I don't feel peaks and valleys this way. Tren off season yes. Mast for me is a no. My bf isn't low enough to see any result or benefit from it. 
> 
> Real hgh will change you in serious ways if run long enough. 
> 
> Diet has to change weekly. I would have to recalculate everything on Sundays after I weighed. I looked at the scale once a week on Sunday then started plugging in numbers and getting the grocery list together.


get that bf down fatty  :Smilie: 

I change my calories to some degree as time goes on. I am doing such a slow bulk its more maintenance then anything else. it took way to long to get that fat off to get to that pic that you saw. it is nothing great but I am going to stay close to that pics cause I feel better overall.

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## kelkel

> *HGH: manipulates everything if you use enough - rules go out the window.


How much is enough, in your opinion?

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## gearbox

what about the hgh gut. maybe they use crazy doses but how it that differently then a small dose over 20 years.
kia greene has a huge gut. he has grown so much in a short time.

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## Capebuffalo

> get that bf down fatty 
> 
> I change my calories to some degree as time goes on. I am doing such a slow bulk its more maintenance then anything else. it took way to long to get that fat off to get to that pic that you saw. it is nothing great but I am going to stay close to that pics cause I feel better overall.


That pic is probably better than 95 % of the male population. Be proud of it. Especially if you maintain close to it. 

Bf isn't bad but for me you have to be sub 10 to see results.

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## Metalject

> Funny you mentioned ed or eod injections with long ester. I have switch to eod and can feel a difference over 2x a week.
> 
> Training- did it change when you were on vs off heavy compounds. Just learned from a few peeps they lift 6-7 days a week almost every muscle group 2x a week or close. what are your thoughts


I think hitting each body part 2x/wk is way too much gear or no gear. Most bodybuilders don't do that. I know plenty that hit every body part once every 9 days or so and that's it. That doesn't mean they're not training most days.

Most bodybuilders split their leg day, one day for quads and one for hams. Some go as far as to split their arm sessions, one for tri's and one for bi's...personally I don't see the benefit in the split arm training but it works good for Flex, you can't argue that. His split is Shoulders, quads, back, chest, hams, bi's, tri's with rest days thrown in as needed. Still, most still follow the 7 day each body part once, 1-2 days rest. 

When off gear, most don't train much. Common time to put training aside and rest or just do light circuit training or something like that. Most guys would do so much better if they trained like this. Took me years to accept this myself.

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## gearbox

> That pic is probably better than 95 % of the male population. Be proud of it. Especially if you maintain close to it. 
> 
> Bf isn't bad but for me you have to be sub 10 to see results.


Thanks cape. 

Your quads look awesome!

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## Metalject

> How much is enough, in your opinion?


10iu+

You can start getting away with more in the 5iu per day range if your product is good and you have enough to use for a long time but 10+ is when things get stupid...in a good way.

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## David PvP

Metal need some info about test dosage,i am currently running 350 test prop/w,700 tren ace/w,800 eq/w,300 masteron /w,and noticed i have dayz when i feel like crap,muscles are not full etc,i was thinking of upping the test to 700/w,a tought great one?

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## Metalject

> what about the hgh gut. maybe they use crazy doses but how it that differently then a small dose over 20 years.
> kia greene has a huge gut. he has grown so much in a short time.


It's not just HGH, it's the combination of several things. Insulin plays a big role in that gut look you're talking about. Combine that with extremely heavy weight and your mid-section muscles grow. Even I noticed that and I'm nothing...the heavier I lifted on military and deads the thicker my abs got. I had to stop doing deads altogether at one point as I couldn't stop my obliques from growing, which can make you look stupid really fast. Still did rack pulls some.

Anyway, HGH, insulin, pounds of food and heavy weights = bigger gut. Genetics play a role too just like with everything else.

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## Metalject

> Metal need some info about test dosage,i am currently running 350 test prop/w,700 tren ace/w,800 eq/w,300 masteron/w,and noticed i have dayz when i feel like crap,muscles are not full etc,i was thinking of upping the test to 700/w,a tought great one?


Feeling full has more to do with carbs than gear. You can feel like you're muscles are about to explode on a mere 100mg of testosterone per week with carbs and enough of other gear items. 

As far as feeling like crap, what do you mean?

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## David PvP

I mean no energy,low sex drive,anxiety,i have the feeling someone is out there to get me.....i guess it sounds weird.And if you have time i would like to know you're opinion on carbs when cutting,i try to limit them to first meal(oats with whey and 5 egg whtes)and PWO drink,but it makes me think bout carbs every single second of the day,i neve tought i would crave for something this bad,i've cut bf very very nice with discipline and diet,but cant seem to get the tunnels in the abs.And did you ever eat rice or other carbs when cutting? i want to mess with carbs alot but i know it might slow my progress shredding bf%,what's youre opinion on the situation?

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## gearbox

> I mean no energy,low sex drive,anxiety,i have the feeling someone is out there to get me.....i guess it sounds weird.And if you have time i would like to know you're opinion on carbs when cutting,i try to limit them to first meal(oats with whey and 5 egg whtes)and PWO drink,but it makes me think bout carbs every single second of the day,i neve tought i would crave for something this bad,i've cut bf very very nice with discipline and diet,but cant seem to get the tunnels in the abs.And did you ever eat rice or other carbs when cutting? i want to mess with carbs alot but i know it might slow my 
> progress shredding bf%,what's youre opinion on the situation?



sounds like e2 is a problem. Did you do close to this cycle before. Helps to slowly move up in dosing.

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## Capebuffalo

> I mean no energy,low sex drive,anxiety,i have the feeling someone is out there to get me.....i guess it sounds weird.And if you have time i would like to know you're opinion on carbs when cutting,i try to limit them to first meal(oats with whey and 5 egg whtes)and PWO drink,but it makes me think bout carbs every single second of the day,i neve tought i would crave for something this bad,i've cut bf very very nice with discipline and diet,but cant seem to get the tunnels in the abs.And did you ever eat rice or other carbs when cutting? i want to mess with carbs alot but i know it might slow my progress shredding bf%,what's youre opinion on the situation?



Your ai and dosage?

When I cut for my shows I ate carbs. Actually a week before I was eating 30 oz of sweet potatoes a day plus rice. Too low of carbs is counterproductive.

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## David PvP

did a test/eq cycle,then moved on to a test/tren ,then test/tren/eq, and my last is test,tren,eq,mast,always cycling t3 and clen ,arimidex 0.5 e3d,i prolongue clen with ketotifen, omega 3,multivitamins,and food is crap,all day every day chicken breast,oats,egg whites,lean beef,green beans,brocoli,peanut butter and wallnuts.i also drink lots of green tea and 2 cups of cofee a day 1 in the morning and 1 before training,i **** alot,5-6 girls a week,and wife wants 1 every second day,and i noticed my sex drive dropped,and i ran into a problem recently it happened to me twice,when i was banging this girl i could not focus to climax,and i got soft,i thin kthis all has to do with my low test dosage,what do you think?

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## David PvP

_Your ai and dosage?

When I cut for my shows I ate carbs. Actually a week before I was eating 30 oz of sweet potatoes a day plus rice. Too low of carbs is counterproductive._



yes but go high and you start to look like crap in the mirror...

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## Back In Black

> did a test/eq cycle,then moved on to a test/tren,then test/tren/eq, and my last is test,tren,eq,mast,always cycling t3 and clen,arimidex 0.5 e3d,i prolongue clen with ketotifen, omega 3,multivitamins,and food is crap,all day every day chicken breast,oats,egg whites,lean beef,green beans,brocoli,peanut butter and wallnuts.i also drink lots of green tea and 2 cups of cofee a day 1 in the morning and 1 before training,i **** alot,5-6 girls a week,and wife wants 1 every second day,and i noticed my sex drive dropped,and i ran into a problem recently it happened to me twice,when i was banging this girl i could not focus to climax,and i got soft,i thin kthis all has to do with my low test dosage,what do you think?


You started your 2nd cycle in November. Including that one are you saying you have ran 3 or 4 cycles in the last 6 months?

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## gearbox

Plenty of guys I know 3 days off carbs 1 day on for prepping for shows.

metal- settle this for us. Or is it trial and error cause diet changes for us all.

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## Capebuffalo

> _Your ai and dosage?
> 
> When I cut for my shows I ate carbs. Actually a week before I was eating 30 oz of sweet potatoes a day plus rice. Too low of carbs is counterproductive._
> 
> 
> 
> yes but go high and you start to look like crap in the mirror...


True

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## Capebuffalo

Metal- what is your t3 dosage off season?

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## Metalject

> I mean no energy,low sex drive,anxiety,i have the feeling someone is out there to get me.....i guess it sounds weird.And if you have time i would like to know you're opinion on carbs when cutting,i try to limit them to first meal(oats with whey and 5 egg whtes)and PWO drink,but it makes me think bout carbs every single second of the day,i neve tought i would crave for something this bad,i've cut bf very very nice with discipline and diet,but cant seem to get the tunnels in the abs.And did you ever eat rice or other carbs when cutting? i want to mess with carbs alot but i know it might slow my progress shredding bf%,what's youre opinion on the situation?


It's a hormone problem. What else are you taking? 

Carbs - there's no right answer. What cape does most couldn't do, including me but there are guys that can eat more carbs and do little to no cardio, again not most. So that alone should tell us that X amount of carbs at certain times of day is meaningless in terms of a perfect answer for all. 

Speaking for myself when dieting, when carbs need to be reduced, for myself the first thing that goes is and carb meal that's not pre or PWO or first meal of the day. Once those carb meals are gone, if carbs need to be reduced further I'll drop the PWO carb meal, not the meal but the carb portion. The last carb meal to go is pre-training. Now how many carb meals there were altogether, that depends. I've dieting with carbs in my diet all the way through and with no carbs at all the entire time in keto plans. 

Types of carbs, rice, oats, potatoes (any kind of potato). 

A good solution - you'd have to list out what you're eating.

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## Metalject

> Plenty of guys I know 3 days off carbs 1 day on for prepping for shows.
> 
> metal- settle this for us. Or is it trial and error cause diet changes for us all.


It's different for everyone.

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## Metalject

> Metal- what is your t3 dosage off season?


50-100mcg

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## gearbox

Do you coach people on show prep now?
So you play trial and error with their diets.

So overall for gh. Would you rather run 10ius for 1 year or 5 ius for 2 years

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## Capebuffalo

What are your thoughts on injecting growth intravenous ? I know some who have and holy hell they exploded.

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## Metalject

> Do you coach people on show prep now?
> So you play trial and error with their diets.
> 
> So overall for gh. Would you rather run 10ius for 1 year or 5 ius for 2 years


I do but I don't as much as I used to. At times I'd like to do it more again, I do enjoy it. The last two years I haven't had as much time though due to some work related things. I still keep a handful a year of people that I want to work with but in time I'll probably start picking up more again as time allows. As far as the diets, I have a handful of what I call base diets and from there they are adjusted from person to person. As you work with someone long enough it gets easier and easier to make things fit and work just right for them. But it's funny, there's a normal course of action I've noticed over the years - women are easy, they work with you for a show and will stay with you as long as they compete. Men, if they do not win outright they get pissed and go to someone else or if they place well in one show but worse in the next they go to someone else. But eventually you end up picking up some of those same guys again later on as they mature in the sport a little more. Just the way it is. 

The GH question - that's a hard one to answer. Personally, I'd lean towards the 5iu for 2yrs simply for the fact that the longer you can use gh the better. The exception, someone's competing for a pro card during that 1yr period, in that case 10iu...and I'm talking about a guy that has a true chance.

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## Metalject

> What are your thoughts on injecting growth intravenous ? I know some who have and holy hell they exploded.


I honestly don't have any experience with it. I know some guys who do it as well but I've never done it or had any of my guys do it.

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## Capebuffalo

> I honestly don't have any experience with it. I know some guys who do it as well but I've never done it or had any of my guys do it.


I don't think I would do it. Seems too "Train Watching "for me. But I did see some nice growth on them. And by nice I mean blew up. With just a cruise amount of test. Nothing else. Well slin.  :Wink:

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## Metalject

> I don't think I would do it. Seems too "Train Watching "for me. But I did see some nice growth on them. And by nice I mean blew up. With just a cruise amount of test. Nothing else. Well slin.


Well, there you go. Slin ain't hardly nothing else.

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## Metalject

> I don't think I would do it. Seems too "Train Watching "for me. But I did see some nice growth on them. And by nice I mean blew up. With just a cruise amount of test. Nothing else. Well slin.


One of the best amateur bodybuilders I know of, I mean unreal genetics, is like he was birthed for the sole purpose of bodybuilding - he stands 5'10, 290lbs in the off-season with abs...not great ripped abs but abs and vascular from head to toe. His off-season gear use is 1000-2000mg/test/wk, 10-15iu HGH/ed, IGF-1 and Insulin (I can't remember how much of the last two but I can ask). That's all he takes with the exception of 200mg/deca sometimes for joint issues and once in a blue moon a short burst of Tren just for fun. Contest time he runs everything you can think of....my point, well I don't know if I had a point, lol!

----------


## Capebuffalo

> Well, there you go. Slin ain't hardly nothing else.


Most anabolic things 
#1 food
#2 slin

----------


## David PvP

> You started your 2nd cycle in November. Including that one are you saying you have ran 3 or 4 cycles in the last 6 months?


i never really went off,just jumped from cycle to cycle,never ever intend to go off,posibly bridge or cruise but never off

----------


## David PvP

> It's a hormone problem. What else are you taking? 
> 
> Carbs - there's no right answer. What cape does most couldn't do, including me but there are guys that can eat more carbs and do little to no cardio, again not most. So that alone should tell us that X amount of carbs at certain times of day is meaningless in terms of a perfect answer for all. 
> 
> Speaking for myself when dieting, when carbs need to be reduced, for myself the first thing that goes is and carb meal that's not pre or PWO or first meal of the day. Once those carb meals are gone, if carbs need to be reduced further I'll drop the PWO carb meal, not the meal but the carb portion. The last carb meal to go is pre-training. Now how many carb meals there were altogether, that depends. I've dieting with carbs in my diet all the way through and with no carbs at all the entire time in keto plans. 
> 
> Types of carbs, rice, oats, potatoes (any kind of potato). 
> 
> A good solution - you'd have to list out what you're eating.



9am oats+whey+5 eggs+olive oil+multivitamin
12 chicken breast+1 spoon peanut butter 
15pm chicken breast+1spoon peanut butter 
16pm 1 banana+ 1000 vit c
17pm train
18pm pwo(oats + whey)+ 1000 vit c
20pm 5 egg whites+vit c+
23pm lean beef+green beans+omega3

test prop - 350/w
tren ace - 700/w
eq - 800/w
mast - 300/w
clen 120 mcg/d
t3 50 mcg/d
ketotifen 2 /d
multivits\omega 3
vit C
apple vinegar
sex once or twice a day
8 hours of sleep
1 aspirin a day
cheat meal is on sunday,usually bacon,donuts,icecream,cake,fat pork,whatever i get my hands on.

----------


## Metalject

> 9am oats+whey+5 eggs+olive oil+multivitamin
> 12 chicken breast+1 spoon peanut butter 
> 15pm chicken breast+1spoon peanut butter 
> 16pm 1 banana+ 1000 vit c
> 17pm train
> 18pm pwo(oats + whey)+ 1000 vit c
> 20pm 5 egg whites+vit c+
> 23pm lean beef+green beans+omega3
> 
> ...



You didn't mention how much oats per serving or how much meat. 
Biggest mistake bodybuilders make when dieting, eating too much good food. Good or healthy food, calories still add up. 

And I do have to ask, sex once or twice a day, why did you mention this?

----------


## David PvP

> Most anabolic things 
> #1 food
> #2 slin


can i add water? a large percent of the dea;,and plus it gets so unnoticed sometimes it makes me laugh,i still see people who drink half a gallon a day and wonder why they dont get the best rezults afther a cycle,easy cheap and highly anabolic  :Big Grin:

----------


## David PvP

> You didn't mention how much oats per serving or how much meat. 
> Biggest mistake bodybuilders make when dieting, eating too much good food. Good or healthy food, calories still add up. 
> 
> And I do have to ask, sex once or twice a day, why did you mention this?


because the more i have sex the more i dont want it,and takes some of my power away or that's how i feel,there are some rare days when i dont do it and i feel better. i remember once i was supose to do a shoulder training and shoulders are by far my beloved muscle group,and i had a shot half an hour before and it was terrible,crap training,crap day alltogheter,i think i need to drop some for better results in the mirror and thats all that matters for me atm

----------


## David PvP

you got me there Metal,i have a cup of oats but i never really weighted it,and i know chicken breast is around 200g each meal,beef around 170,guilty

----------


## gearbox

> True


you could be a little more shredded. haha

great job cape!

----------


## Capebuffalo

> because the more i have sex the more i dont want it,and takes some of my power away or that's how i feel,there are some rare days when i dont do it and i feel better. i remember once i was supose to do a shoulder training and shoulders are by far my beloved muscle group,and i had a shot half an hour before and it was terrible,crap training,crap day alltogheter,i think i need to drop some for better results in the mirror and thats all that matters for me atm


Sexy won't take your power. That's an old boxer theory. Some training days will be sh!t they won't all be winners. 

Did you say water is highly anabolic ?It is involved in modulating the hormonal and metabolic responses to resistance exercise. 

Lower your clen dose. IMO. It makes me feel like hell some days.

----------


## gearbox

> you got me there Metal,i have a cup of oats but i never really weighted it,and i know chicken breast is around 200g each meal,beef around 170,guilty


you need to be way more dedicated then a cup of oats. yor calories need to be exactly. 200 calories over your goal each day seems like nothing but at the end of the week your 1400 over. or when bulking you are still eating over your limit and you will gain way to much fat. I did this and never again. it took me 16 weeks to get my abs back again. that is cutting and morning fasted cardio every day 7x a week for 16 weeks. sure I could of done it in 8 probably with losing more muscle. I wanted to lose none so I did it slow.
My point is your diet is the most important thing on here and MOST spend the least amount of time worrying about it.

----------


## Capebuffalo

> you could be a little more shredded. haha
> 
> great job cape!


See what almost a pound of spuds a day can do.  :Smilie: 

Thank you.

----------


## Metalject

> 9am oats+whey+5 eggs+olive oil+multivitamin
> 12 chicken breast+1 spoon peanut butter 
> 15pm chicken breast+1spoon peanut butter 
> 16pm 1 banana+ 1000 vit c
> 17pm train
> 18pm pwo(oats + whey)+ 1000 vit c
> 20pm 5 egg whites+vit c+
> 23pm lean beef+green beans+omega3
> 
> ...


Not sure why this post showed up twice

----------


## David PvP

> you need to be way more dedicated then a cup of oats. yor calories need to be exactly. 200 calories over your goal each day seems like nothing but at the end of the week your 1400 over. or when bulking you are still eating over your limit and you will gain way to much fat. I did this and never again. it took me 16 weeks to get my abs back again. that is cutting and morning fasted cardio every day 7x a week for 16 weeks. sure I could of done it in 8 probably with losing more muscle. I wanted to lose none so I did it slow.
> My point is your diet is the most important thing on here and MOST spend the least amount of time worrying about it.



very true heavy words man....i know diet is more important than anything you can think of and the hardest to keep ,cuze it actually requires you're full attention day afther day meal afther meal,i just try to lie at times to myself,and i bet alot of people do that too,i even heard a few pros abuse hgh and t3 so they can eat crap more than a simple cheat meal,diet can play tricks with youre mind at times.

----------


## Back In Black

> i never really went off,just jumped from cycle to cycle,never ever intend to go off,posibly bridge or cruise but never off


You really need a rest IMHO. You've been blasting for 6 months with multiple compounds.

If you ain't coming off you need to learn how to cruise.

----------


## Metalject

The reason a lot of guys have bad training sessions after sex is because they let themselves become too relaxed. It's not the sex itself that did it to them but the mindset they put themselves into. 

As for your food, I'll be glad to help for a check in the mail  :Smilie:  LOL! 
Seriously, if you're not losing fat and or gaining fat, something has to change, as you know. 
Glancing at your diet, you're eating 3000 calories a day, maybe more if the meats are even higher than you think. There's problem number one.

----------


## gearbox

> very true heavy words man....i know diet is more important than anything you can think of and the hardest to keep ,cuze it actually requires you're full attention day afther day meal afther meal,i just try to lie at times to myself,and i bet alot of people do that too,i even heard a few pros abuse hgh and t3 so they can eat crap more than a simple cheat meal,diet can play tricks with youre mind at times.


yes those people try to use drugs to help with your cheating or bad diet but if you want to look the best you can you will need to eat right. yes clen t3 albu can all help lose some fat but I could take 200mcg of t3 and if you eat bad your going no where.
Most like myself have a dialed in diet where we are kinda like machines doing the same thing day in and day out with a few changes. Is it boring, ya a little bit but results are the reward and I have one FULL cheat meal a week. I eat whatever I want and have a huge dessert following. last week was chicken, tri tip steak, garlic bread, French fries, and a 32oz of ice cream

----------


## Metalject

> yes those people try to use drugs to help with your cheating or bad diet but if you want to look the best you can you will need to eat right. yes clen t3 albu can all help lose some fat but I could take 200mcg of t3 and if you eat bad your going no where.
> Most like myself have a dialed in diet where we are kinda like machines doing the same thing day in and day out with a few changes. Is it boring, ya a little bit but results are the reward and I have one FULL cheat meal a week. I eat whatever I want and have a huge dessert following. last week was chicken, tri tip steak, garlic bread, French fries, and a 32oz of ice cream


Again, it just depends on the guy. I know guys who eat cake every day up to 6wks out and they come on stage looking awesome. Diet is important and I know people get tired of hearing it but it's still true, in bodybuilding drugs and genetics is everything, then diet. 

As far as cheat meals go, that's my favorite topic. I used get cravings like a pregnant woman. Weirdest meal I ever had was sushi and taco bell with cereal for desert. Biggest cheat meal I ever had: This was 4-5wks out - IHOP, 2 steak omelets, 6 pancakes, 6 pieces of bacon, 6 cheese sticks, hash browns, half an order of crapes from the girl I was with, 4-5 glasses of vitamin D milk and 2 pints of ice cream. By the end of the meal I was drenched in sweat, I mean soaked and you could see my heart beating under my shirt....45min later I was starving!!! By the end of prep I was always so hungry I couldn't see straight. I could eat and eat for weeks after a show and never feel satisfied.

----------


## Capebuffalo

> Again, it just depends on the guy. I know guys who eat cake every day up to 6wks out and they come on stage looking awesome. Diet is important and I know people get tired of hearing it but it's still true, in bodybuilding drugs and genetics is everything, then diet. 
> 
> As far as cheat meals go, that's my favorite topic. I used get cravings like a pregnant woman. Weirdest meal I ever had was sushi and taco bell with cereal for desert. Biggest cheat meal I ever had: This was 4-5wks out - IHOP, 2 steak omelets, 6 pancakes, 6 pieces of bacon, 6 cheese sticks, hash browns, half an order of crapes from the girl I was with, 4-5 glasses of vitamin D milk and 2 pints of ice cream. By the end of the meal I was drenched in sweat, I mean soaked and you could see my heart beating under my shirt....45min later I was starving!!! By the end of prep I was always so hungry I couldn't see straight. I could eat and eat for weeks after a show and never feel satisfied.


The last week before the show you start thinking what the first thing you're going to have. Then change your mind over and over. 

Every commercial on tv is Pizza Hut or KFC. Bastards. Lol

----------


## gearbox

> I think hitting each body part 2x/wk is way too much gear or no gear. Most bodybuilders don't do that. I know plenty that hit every body part once every 9 days or so and that's it. That doesn't mean they're not training most days.
> 
> Most bodybuilders split their leg day, one day for quads and one for hams. Some go as far as to split their arm sessions, one for tri's and one for bi's...personally I don't see the benefit in the split arm training but it works good for Flex, you can't argue that. His split is Shoulders, quads, back, chest, hams, bi's, tri's with rest days thrown in as needed. Still, most still follow the 7 day each body part once, 1-2 days rest. 
> 
> *When off gear, most don't train much. Common time to put training aside and rest or just do light circuit training or something like that. Most guys would do so much better if they trained like this. Took me years to accept this myself.*




care to elaborate. this sounds like Ronnie rowlands 8 weeks on and 2 week deload of light to no weight and repeat

----------


## Metalject

> [/B]
> 
> care to elaborate. this sounds like Ronnie rowlands 8 weeks on and 2 week deload of light to no weight and repeat


A lot of guys hold to this train of thought - take gear, make gains, come off gear and train even harder to make more gains and protect the gains they have. If they happen to hold the same bodyweight they deem it a success, even though nine times out of ten they are now holding more body fat. This is the typical gym rat/gear head mentality. 

Another scenario - take gear, make gains, take more gear, lots of gear and lean out for a show. Put yourself through hell and now train even harder for rebound gains. What usually happens - gain more fat than you should have or burn out. 

For the regular guy running a cycle or two a year, the serious time off of training may not be needed but it's still a good idea to take a week off here and there. 

For the bodybuilder who trains like an insane person, takes a lot of gear (possibly most of the year) competitor or not, it's a good idea to take bigger breaks. Take a month or two off from training if you're done competing that year. You're not going to make any real gains during this phase anyway and your body needs a rest, physically it needs the rest. Ronnie Coleman didn't make it as long as he did without an injury for no reason - he'd take 3 months off after the Olympia every year. Cutler used to take two months off, but I can't say if that's still true or not but I'd bet money it is. 

Will you lose some size and appear a little softer if you do this? Absolutely, but it's short lived and you'll do much better in the long run, protect yourself from injury and protect yourself from burning out. It took me forever to figure this out and if I had sooner I might not have had as many injuries or problems as I did. Just don't let your mind mess with you, everything will be fine. More than likely, everything will be better.

----------


## Capebuffalo

Best protocol for staying on year long? 8 on 2 off?

----------


## Metalject

> Best protocol for staying on year long? 8 on 2 off?


There's lots of ways you can do it. How your shows are lining up, when and how many will determine what you do. For example, if you're doing a spring and early fall show there's no reason you can't take a break somewhere in the middle. "Break" meaning low dose test for a few weeks. But if you're doing a few shows there's not going to be coming off. 

I've done the 8-9 months of heavy use several times and IMO when it comes to that 2 month or so period of being off PCT is pointless, at least standard PCT. My preference, low dose test and frequent HCG . Although I'll admit there have been many times where I'd just stop taking everything, wouldn't even take a low dose of testosterone because I was so sick of injecting.

----------


## Capebuffalo

> There's lots of ways you can do it. How your shows are lining up, when and how many will determine what you do. For example, if you're doing a spring and early fall show there's no reason you can't take a break somewhere in the middle. "Break" meaning low dose test for a few weeks. But if you're doing a few shows there's not going to be coming off. 
> 
> I've done the 8-9 months of heavy use several times and IMO when it comes to that 2 month or so period of being off PCT is pointless, at least standard PCT. My preference, low dose test and frequent HCG. Although I'll admit there have been many times where I'd just stop taking everything, wouldn't even take a low dose of testosterone because I was so sick of injecting.


After the break would you increase dosage? Change esters? Change compounds?

----------


## gearbox

> Again, it just depends on the guy. I know guys who eat cake every day up to 6wks out and they come on stage looking awesome. Diet is important and I know people get tired of hearing it but it's still true, in bodybuilding drugs and genetics is everything, then diet. 
> 
> As far as cheat meals go, that's my favorite topic. I used get cravings like a pregnant woman. Weirdest meal I ever had was sushi and taco bell with cereal for desert. Biggest cheat meal I ever had: This was 4-5wks out - IHOP, 2 steak omelets, 6 pancakes, 6 pieces of bacon, 6 cheese sticks, hash browns, half an order of crapes from the girl I was with, 4-5 glasses of vitamin D milk and 2 pints of ice cream. By the end of the meal I was drenched in sweat, I mean soaked and you could see my heart beating under my shirt....45min later I 
> 
> 
> was starving!!! By the end of prep I was always so hungry I couldn't see straight. I could eat 
> and eat for weeks after a show and never feel satisfied.



that is a ton of food! My cheat meals I guess are moderate compared to yours.
did you cheat one a week until contest or 4 weeks before. You like once a week, twice or once every 10 days ive heard from some people.

----------


## Metalject

> After the break would you increase dosage? Change esters? Change compounds?


Just depends. Primarily I always used Test-e, off-season and contest. I used some of everything else too but Test-e was always easy to come by and I preferred the Testoviron amps over anything else. As for the rest of the off-season, I'd rotate Tren and Nandrolone but more Nandrolone than anything else. Would add in Dbol sometimes for fun but that's about all it's good for, fun. But sure, doses would go up sometimes and sometimes they'd remain consistent for long periods of time. I never got into the short blast periods of high doses for a few weeks followed by low doses for a few weeks and so on. Contest prep, the more the prep went on the more gear was added, larger doses, more compounds, etc.

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## Metalject

> that is a ton of food! My cheat meals I guess are moderate compared to yours.
> did you cheat one a week until contest or 4 weeks before. You like once a week, twice or once every 10 days ive heard from some people.


Once a week, last meal of the day on Saturday night. Cheat meal would stay in the diet until it needed to go. I've kept cheat meals in until 3wks out and I've had to stop them 6wks out. Each diet is different. But I always do my best to make food cry, lol! Kind of a good rule to go by with cheat meals - if you throw up you ate too much. If you can't breath you ate too much. Otherwise eat whatever you want.

----------


## Capebuffalo

E and C are my go to. But for some reason I like running them with short esters like npp or tren a. I feel that way the test is always constant and I can add or take away othe compounds without much lag time. Nothing scientific just what I do.

----------


## Metalject

> E and C are my go to. But for some reason I like running them with short esters like npp or tren a. I feel that way the test is always constant and I can add or take away othe compounds without much lag time. Nothing scientific just what I do.


I do the same.

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## gearbox

Metal did you do the 5on2off protocol for gh.

----------


## Metalject

> Metal did you do the 5on2off protocol for gh.


No, every day. First thing in the morning.

----------


## Capebuffalo

> No, every day. First thing in the morning.


You didn't split your dosage if it was over 8 ius? I was doing 5 iusat 2:30 am (growth cycle higher?) and 5 ius when I first woke up. I could only afford 5 on 2 off for 16 months. It was great. I can't afford or find real now.  :Frown:

----------


## gearbox

> You didn't split your dosage if it was over 8 ius? I was doing 5 iusat 2:30 am (growth cycle higher?) and 5 ius when I first woke up. I could only afford 5 on 2 off for 16 months. It was great. I can't afford or find real now.


you did 10ius for 16 months? How did you like it? what did you notice?

----------


## Metalject

> You didn't split your dosage if it was over 8 ius? I was doing 5 iusat 2:30 am (growth cycle higher?) and 5 ius when I first woke up. I could only afford 5 on 2 off for 16 months. It was great. I can't afford or find real now.


I generally ran 4-5iu and normally only during prep. For years it was the regular old blue and yellow tops so it was hit or miss on the quality. Later on I was able to get a good deal on serostim and that made a big difference. That stuff was so expensive though I still kept it in the 4iu range but 4iu of that vs anything else was night and day. I have dabbled with larger doses but nothing worth mentioning as I was never able to afford it long enough. 

Presently, if I could do whatever I wanted, I would run 3iu/ed year round of serostim or saizen but that is a lot of money.

----------


## Capebuffalo

> you did 10ius for 16 months? How did you like it? what did you notice?


This was back when the blue yellow and green tops were real and everybody wasn't dumping something under the colors. And reds.i didn't run 10 ius the whole time I stayed 5-6 ius for a long long time. It wasn't as good as pharm but it was legit back then. The first 10-12 months that's all I ran. Nothing else. It was amazing. Lean vascular growing. The last part I ran some test with it. Even better.

----------


## gearbox

Metal-
What was your protein ratio the last 8 weeks or 4 weeks before a show and meal timing. Did you eat every 2 hours 3 hours. Night feeding?

----------


## Metalject

> Metal-
> What was your protein ratio the last 8 weeks or 4 weeks before a show and meal timing. Did you eat every 2 hours 3 hours. Night feeding?


6-7 meals a day, 50g per meal. No night time eating. IMO sleep is more important. 
When I was first starting out I did wake up once every night to eat but again the rest is more important.

----------


## gearbox

> 6-7 meals a day, 50g per meal. No night time eating. IMO sleep is more important. 
> When I was first starting out I did wake up once every night to eat but again the rest is more important.


thanks metal. I too think sleep is over looked. I have to get up to pee at least once a night. good time to take gh if its ready to go in fridge. 

I have ran drol 2 different times. both 5 weeks at 50mg and I did the 1st everyday before work out, so about 2pm. the other was ed right before bed. I felt like the results were better when taking before bed. any experience with this?

----------


## Metalject

For the most part I've always taken all my gear first thing in the morning or at the end of the day. When it comes to orals, I have split them up throughout the day or taken them all at once and cannot tell any difference. As for Anadrol , the only time I would personally use it is for precontest. The stuff gives me bad insomnia and since I already have sleep issues the last few weeks of a diet anyway the Anadrol doesn't seem to help or hurt it either way in that regard.

----------


## davesah1

Bostin Loyd......have you heard his stack and dosages and seen his one year transformations and other videos? The more I watch the guy the more I believe bodybuilding or being a monster in general is all about the drugs. What's your opinion on him? Obviously your gonna hate him for the most part, since he defies everything about these forums, but at least he's real.
I think I've lost interest in the sport. I don't have the balls to gamble with my health like that.

I don't think he's ever going to be anything special but he is doing a damn good job marketing himself. 

one of his quotes, "all i changed when prepping for the contra was my drug intake, not my training or my diet" and he won. I'm assuming he went on a cut prior for obvious reasons. He's not my role model, but I like his personality he's a genuine man.

----------


## Metalject

> Bostin Loyd......have you heard his stack and dosages and seen his one year transformations and other videos? The more I watch the guy the more I believe bodybuilding or being a monster in general is all about the drugs. What's your opinion on him? Obviously your gonna hate him for the most part, since he defies everything about these forums, but at least he's real.
> I think I've lost interest in the sport. I don't have the balls to gamble with my health like that.
> 
> I don't think he's ever going to be anything special but he is doing a damn good job marketing himself. 
> 
> one of his quotes, "all i changed when prepping for the contra was my drug intake, not my training or my diet" and he won. I'm assuming he went on a cut prior for obvious reasons. He's not my role model, but I like his personality he's a genuine man.


When I first saw one of his videos I thought he was just going to be another idiot kid running his mouth. Granted, he is young and sometimes it shows, but overall I like the guy. I've heard him make mistakes when he's talking about certain steroids or other gear items and how they function, but nothing major. 

When he talks about what it takes or rather, what you have to take, he's not full of crap by any means. Are there top level national guys that take less than he does? Sure, but there are plenty that take just as much and even more. 

And I would not say bodybuilding is all about drugs. I would say drugs/gear are an intricate factor. We all know you can't take a bunch of gear and look like king of the world. However, the idea that training and diet are more important, I disagree. All three are equally important in bodybuilding. And what's posted as general advice on a message board, no bodybuilder could stand a chance by following it. But that doesn't mean it's not good advice for the every day gym rat/gear head.

----------


## davesah1

> When I first saw one of his videos I thought he was just going to be another idiot kid running his mouth. Granted, he is young and sometimes it shows, but overall I like the guy. I've heard him make mistakes when he's talking about certain steroids or other gear items and how they function, but nothing major. 
> 
> When he talks about what it takes or rather, what you have to take, he's not full of crap by any means. Are there top level national guys that take less than he does? Sure, but there are plenty that take just as much and even more. 
> 
> And I would not say bodybuilding is all about drugs. I would say drugs/gear are an intricate factor. We all know you can't take a bunch of gear and look like king of the world. However, the idea that training and diet are more important, I disagree. All three are equally important in bodybuilding. And what's posted as general advice on a message board, no bodybuilder could stand a chance by following it. But that doesn't mean it's not good advice for the every day gym rat/gear head.


Very nicely put man. I just don't understand how top guys like that can take doses like that but everyone on here seems so concerned with health issues when they're on 1/10 of the gear for 1/10 of the time. For the average joe PCT should be the biggest concern not upping the dose of test from 500 to a gram next cycle. He has to be under some intense medical watch, no? 

He talks about experimenting with PH's at 17 and has never really stopped using since then. So if your committed to the lifestyle and accept staying on for the rest of your life how much damage can it do someone who took it at a young age if their HPTA never reached maturation yet will never be functioning again anyway? Granted I do believe it is very dumb to take them at a young age just cause. Either commit or never start at that point. Bodybuilding seems to have reach such a drugged up point I don't think I would be able to handle the stress of constantly watching my health at that extreme. Fck DHT causing hair loss, the stress of being a walking pharmacy and dealing with 10+ compounds would be enough to cause me to lose my hair. 

I do believe other top guys are on doses he describes but it always bothered me how uniformed others (like friends) get unnerved when I tell them I ran a 500mg a week test cycle, saying I was gonna die and now horrible it is for me. The average person doesn't quite know how much you can, and some people do, abuse steroids and what recreational use is compared to what they in their minds associate with steroids use. You know what I mean. Saying yeah I'm on a cycle to someone not into the lifestyle pictures Arnold in their head and thinks on the extreme end of the spectrum. Honestly prob a bad judgement call on my part being open about my cycle use. Although, I'm not going to lie to people. I was accused of juicing since I was 17 (but never was). People are always going to find a excuse for their slack no matter what. Nice talking to you metalject.

----------


## davesah1

also how does one even know they have genetic potential when that many drugs are involved brother?

----------


## gearbox

> also how does one even know they have genetic potential when that many drugs are involved brother?


I wondered this and found my answer. Look at that ramy (he is young) who just won ny pro heavy weight I believe and been only lifting 3 years. There you have it.
You take gear and your buddy does too. He gains 15 lbs solid you gain 6 lose 4. Haha

----------


## gearbox

When it comes to aas you do not know till you take aas. But I know many who look very good within one year and others who dont even look like there on aas. Diet and training can play a part.

----------


## Metalject

> Very nicely put man. I just don't understand how top guys like that can take doses like that but everyone on here seems so concerned with health issues when they're on 1/10 of the gear for 1/10 of the time. For the average joe PCT should be the biggest concern not upping the dose of test from 500 to a gram next cycle. He has to be under some intense medical watch, no? 
> 
> He talks about experimenting with PH's at 17 and has never really stopped using since then. So if your committed to the lifestyle and accept staying on for the rest of your life how much damage can it do someone who took it at a young age if their HPTA never reached maturation yet will never be functioning again anyway? Granted I do believe it is very dumb to take them at a young age just cause. Either commit or never start at that point. Bodybuilding seems to have reach such a drugged up point I don't think I would be able to handle the stress of constantly watching my health at that extreme. Fck DHT causing hair loss, the stress of being a walking pharmacy and dealing with 10+ compounds would be enough to cause me to lose my hair. 
> 
> I do believe other top guys are on doses he describes but it always bothered me how uniformed others (like friends) get unnerved when I tell them I ran a 500mg a week test cycle, saying I was gonna die and now horrible it is for me. The average person doesn't quite know how much you can, and some people do, abuse steroids and what recreational use is compared to what they in their minds associate with steroids use. You know what I mean. Saying yeah I'm on a cycle to someone not into the lifestyle pictures Arnold in their head and thinks on the extreme end of the spectrum. Honestly prob a bad judgement call on my part being open about my cycle use. Although, I'm not going to lie to people. I was accused of juicing since I was 17 (but never was). People are always going to find a excuse for their slack no matter what. Nice talking to you metalject.


Most bodybuilders don't keep that close of an eye on their health. I can't tell you of Bostin does, I don't know him, but most don't anymore than your every day person does. How bad is that? Who knows, but there is not a chance in this world it's as bad as people often make it out to be, think about it:

1. Guys have been using butt loads of steroids for decades and they're not dropping like flies or all dying at the age of 40. Sure, sometimes a bodybuilder dies, but most of them live into old age. 

2. Most bodybuilders (Pros) have kids, very few don't have kids. 

3. Most bodybuilders have hair (you brought up the hair argument). Sure you can lose your hair but that's genetic. You can't lose your hair unless you were going to lose it anyway. 

All of that said, does that mean it's healthy? Nope, but neither is eating lard or smoking pot every day but plenty of people do that too. 

Kind of a side note but still relevant to the topic, the bodybuilders that do die young, in my opinion it's far more often due to other things, not steroids - such as:

1. Severe diuretic abuse
2. Rec drugs - this gets a lot of bodybuilders in trouble, particularly coke and pain meds.

----------


## Metalject

> also how does one even know they have genetic potential when that many drugs are involved brother?


It's hard to know if you have what it takes to be a great bodybuilder until you've used gear. There are exceptions, there are some who are abnormal when they are natural but not most. Look at Dexter Jackson - his first show as an amateur he weighed what, 150lbs? I doubt anyone looked at him and said he'd one day win big pro shows that day. 

Genetic response to gear is such a big part of the whole deal and you will never know what that response is like until you use it.

----------


## gearbox

Metal- back to t3. I think you have used pretty much every range from 50mcg to probably 300 ed. I am asking what were the goods about going into 100+ and the bads. You mentioned you like around 50 or 75 if I remember. Why so low compared to what you can run.

----------


## gearbox

Metal- what are your thoughts on nandrrolone decanoate. Obviously deca ! do not hear much about this compound on here?

----------


## stirated

> also how does one even know they have genetic potential when that many drugs are involved brother?





> I wondered this and found my answer. Look at that ramy (he is young) who just won ny pro heavy weight I believe and been only lifting 3 years. There you have it.
> You take gear and your buddy does too. He gains 15 lbs solid you gain 6 lose 4. Haha


I found myself having to reply to this, you know if you can win shows 100% natural at a National level.

Sorry most want to hear this but its true.

Sure in this age of mass drug consumption and the addition of tren things have changed.

But I believe the above stands true.

In Aus we have Lee Priest who is our best so far in my opinion, he was winning shows at 14, was he geared I think not, but in 1990 he won the Australia at 19 and looked like a different person.

I think you know when you lift a weight, you get this feeling like its what your meant to do, mind muscle connection comes easy, form is good right off the bat and you have the sense of belonging.
Further to that growth happens reasonably easily, people think your geared your not, diet becomes important and social life seems like a waste, you get focused like you never thought possible.

All these are a indication this is your sport, in my opinion this should all happen before you even touch AAS.

For the rest off us myself included thank god for Gh and Tren lol.

----------


## Metalject

> Metal- back to t3. I think you have used pretty much every range from 50mcg to probably 300 ed. I am asking what were the goods about going into 100+ and the bads. You mentioned you like around 50 or 75 if I remember. Why so low compared to what you can run.


Around 100mcg is my preference during a diet, which may or may not increase up to 200mcg. At 100mcg I run a little hotter, sweat a little more, etc. 150mcg+, that's harder to maintain for a long period of time, primarily because of the hunger and heat. 

Off-season, if used, 50mcg is about it.

----------


## Metalject

> Metal- what are your thoughts on nandrrolone decanoate. Obviously deca! do not hear much about this compound on here?


My thoughts? I don't think I have anything to add that you haven't heard before. Good steroid , side effect friendly, and of course things hurt less when you use it. I like Nandrolone , I wouldn't call it my favorite steroid of all time, that would be Tren , but nothing wrong with Deca or NPP.

----------


## Metalject

> I found myself having to reply to this, you know if you can win shows 100% natural at a National level.
> 
> Sorry most want to hear this but its true.
> 
> Sure in this age of mass drug consumption and the addition of tren things have changed.
> 
> But I believe the above stands true.
> 
> In Aus we have Lee Priest who is our best so far in my opinion, he was winning shows at 14, was he geared I think not, but in 1990 he won the Australia at 19 and looked like a different person.
> ...


I can't imagine any man winning a national show in the U.S. naturally. I'm not saying it doesn't happen in other countries...I don't know anything about Australian bodybuilding but not a chance in the U.S. I'd say the last time anyone turned pro naturally was never.

----------


## stirated

> I can't imagine any man winning a national show in the U.S. naturally. I'm not saying it doesn't happen in other countries...I don't know anything about Australian bodybuilding but not a chance in the U.S. I'd say the last time anyone turned pro naturally was never.


Well its a know fact that the USA is well ahead of us Aussies when it comes to bodybuilding lol, but my point was if you can't win a national show Natural bearing in mind our Nationals maybe smaller than yours then this sport is not for your gear wise, 

To be honest the amount of drug use I seen at this years nationals nearly made me vomit, and most looked like shit.

Destined stomachs from insulin abuse, gyno everywhere and for what a plastic trophy.

If you have it you will know, im probably a hard marker on this but I believe its true.

Pro's have these 3 attributes,

1 One the ability to absorb huge amounts of drugs with minimum sides.

2 The genetic disposition to be able to use high doses and get better results than anyone else.

3 Symmetry.

----------


## oldnsedentary

> Thats why I like this thread so much. Real stage competitor and how things are done. 
> I have used at 50 mcg then I went to 75 and 100. Funny thing was I didn't notice any difference from 50 to 100.


I have been running T3 for a few weeks now. I started at 50, then 75, then upped it to 100. I did not notice much at 50 or 75, but two days at 100 stripped four pounds off of me!

It kind of freaked me out, so I am back at 75.

Four pounds are still gone as of this morning. I do look noticeably leaner than just a few days ago.

----------


## oldnsedentary

> I think hitting each body part 2x/wk is way too much gear or no gear. Most bodybuilders don't do that.


Just so you know that people are actually listening to you, I used to (for years) do the following split, 1. chest and arms, 2. legs (inc. calves), 3. back and shoulders, 4. off, repeat.

I am now splitting up chest and arms into two separate days, splitting up shoulders and back, and moving calves to shoulder day.

Thoughts?

My initial impression is that I can hit the bodypart a lot harder. I thought I was being really intense, but I realize that I was partially saving myself to get through everything. For example, when I did just chest, instead of chest and arms, I realized a huge difference in my chest workout intensity, since I knew that was all I was doing and I was not going to be doing arms on the same day. I did not even realize I was subconsciously sparing myself like that.

----------


## David PvP

What is you're opinion on hight test on a cut? i am thinking to go 1000 test /walong with 700 tren 300 mast,EQ 800 /w,initially i was at 700 prop/w and i want to bump it for libido problems,big big libido problems actually... :Frown:

----------


## Back In Black

> What is you're opinion on hight test on a cut? i am thinking to go 1000 test /walong with 700 tren 300 mast,EQ 800 /w,initially i was at 700 prop/w and i want to bump it for libido problems,big big libido problems actually...


You need a rest not more gear buddy. You've been blasting for 6 months or so right?

----------


## David PvP

yes but i hope test can get it up.......

----------


## Back In Black

> yes but i hope test can get it up.......


Mate you'll be on 2g of test EVERY week before long.

HAVE A REST.

----------


## gearbox

> I have been running T3 for a few weeks now. I started at 50, then 75, then upped it to 100. I did not notice much at 50 or 75, but two days at 100 stripped four pounds off of me!
> 
> It kind of freaked me out, so I am back at 75.
> 
> Four pounds are still gone as of this morning. I do look noticeably leaner than just a few days ago.


Need to give t3 time to work. 50mcg was working just give it 3 weeks

----------


## Metalject

> Just so you know that people are actually listening to you, I used to (for years) do the following split, 1. chest and arms, 2. legs (inc. calves), 3. back and shoulders, 4. off, repeat.
> 
> I am now splitting up chest and arms into two separate days, splitting up shoulders and back, and moving calves to shoulder day.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> My initial impression is that I can hit the bodypart a lot harder. I thought I was being really intense, but I realize that I was partially saving myself to get through everything. For example, when I did just chest, instead of chest and arms, I realized a huge difference in my chest workout intensity, since I knew that was all I was doing and I was not going to be doing arms on the same day. I did not even realize I was subconsciously sparing myself like that.



You're probably on a better track now. For example, if you're doing back and shoulders at the same time, odds are strong that you're not doing yourself any favors. If you're training for over an hour, odds are strong you're on the wrong path. 

I may have mentioned this before, I can't remember - there are a lot of guys that split their leg training up, one day for quads and one day for hams. It's the only way they can give full attention to each side, front and back. This isn't necessary for everyone, but if your hams are lagging behind your quads significantly it's not a bad thing to try. 

Another good thing to consider, don't get stuck in the idea that everything has to be trained once in a week. There's nothing magical about a 7 day schedule, maybe you'd do better with a 9 day schedule, which would mean every body part is hit once every 9 days. If you're having to split your body parts up even more then an extended week is unavoidable. This isn't to say by any means every one has to do this, I'd say most can do just fine with a standard 7 day week. The point, you just have to find what works best. If you're stuck, that means whatever you're doing isn't best - pretty simple.

----------


## Metalject

> What is you're opinion on hight test on a cut? i am thinking to go 1000 test /walong with 700 tren 300 mast,EQ 800 /w,initially i was at 700 prop/w and i want to bump it for libido problems,big big libido problems actually...


Libido issues are more commonly associated with estrogen or progesterone problems. Your libido can be perfect on low doses of test or high doses of test as long as the other two hormones are not out of control. As far as high doses of test and dieting, if you're trying to maintain enormous amounts of size while dieting, then yeah, you'll probably need to maintain higher doses of test. It just depends on what you're after. 

Back in Black's advice isn't bad advice - you might want to consider regrouping if you're having problems.

----------


## canesfan804

> The last week before the show you start thinking what the first thing you're going to have. Then change your mind over and over. 
> 
> Every commercial on tv is Pizza Hut or KFC. Bastards. Lol


Ive been going through this for weeks. Hell I woke up last night at 4am and couldn't go back to sleep because I was thinking of what Im gonna eat next Saturday night. Ive never been this hungry in my life 10 mins after eating Im starving and watching the clock for the next feeding

----------


## gearbox

> Ive been going through this for weeks. Hell I woke up last night at 4am and couldn't go back to sleep because I was thinking of what Im gonna eat next Saturday night. Ive never been this hungry in my life 10 mins after eating Im starving and watching the clock for the next feeding


That bad huh?
Are you prep for a show?

----------


## canesfan804

> That bad huh?
> Are you prep for a show?


Yea I've got 7 days left. Some days are not bad but the last 2 have been a little rough. I eat plenty of food it's just that it doesn't last.

----------


## gearbox

> Yea I've got 7 days left. Some days are not bad but the last 2 have been a little rough. I eat plenty of food it's just that it doesn't last.


Weight height how many calories are you eating?
You on t3, albu, or clen

----------


## canesfan804

5'7" 174lbs. Test E, tren , mast and clen . Basically I east about 2000 calories a day right now. 350grams of protein and about 60 grams of carbs.

----------


## gearbox

That's a good size for sure. Cause we already know your lean being 6 dayz out. Wish I could weigh that much lean  :Smilie: 
Keep it up bro.

----------


## davesah1

> Most bodybuilders don't keep that close of an eye on their health. I can't tell you of Bostin does, I don't know him, but most don't anymore than your every day person does. How bad is that? Who knows, but there is not a chance in this world it's as bad as people often make it out to be, think about it:
> 
> 1. Guys have been using butt loads of steroids for decades and they're not dropping like flies or all dying at the age of 40. Sure, sometimes a bodybuilder dies, but most of them live into old age. 
> 
> 2. Most bodybuilders (Pros) have kids, very few don't have kids. 
> 
> 3. Most bodybuilders have hair (you brought up the hair argument). Sure you can lose your hair but that's genetic. You can't lose your hair unless you were going to lose it anyway. 
> 
> All of that said, does that mean it's healthy? Nope, but neither is eating lard or smoking pot every day but plenty of people do that too. 
> ...


So basically Dorian's view of steroids being somewhat mild drugs holds some truth in this video, dunno if you've seen it.

----------


## Metalject

> So basically Dorian's view of steroids being somewhat mild drugs holds some truth in this video, dunno if you've seen it.


No, I haven't seen it. But that was excellent IMO. I don't disagree with anything he said in that video.

----------


## stirated

Hey mate came across this on another forum im a member on, I kind of know what the answer will be but just for the sake of the exercise would you think that this cycle is more the norm now days. I guess what im asking do people really
Take this much gear.

A Very Special Treat- Mr. Olympia Cycle
This was the Olympia cycle for a top 6 guy. Someone you all know of. 

1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th week:

ANDROGENIC /ANABOLIC :

SUSTANON (or OMNADREN ) 250 mg - every other day
TESTOSTERON UNDECANOATE - 1000 mg (4ml shot, 250 mg/ml injections) - every Sunday
TRENBOLONE ACETATE 400 mg per week
DECA -DURABOLIN (Nandrolone Decanoate) 900 mg per week
OXANDROLONE (tablets) 60 mg/day (20 mg every 8 hours)
TURINABOL (tablets) 60 mg/day (20 mg every 8 hours)

ANTI-ESTROGENS:

2 mg ARIMIDEX (Anastrozole) per day
50 mg CLOMID (Clomiphene Citrate) - every day 25 mg in the morning + 25 mg 12 hours later

OTHER HORMONES:

Growth Hormone - 4 IU's ON EMPTY STOMACH and as many times a day as possible (up to 12 IU's a day)

Insulin - HUMALOG, 20 units 1 hour before every training, as scheduled

Thyroid:

T3 (Triiodothyronine) - 25 mcg per day (12.5 mcg morning + 12.5 mcg 12 hours later in the evening), first 2 weeks, than 37.5 mcg per day (25 mcg morning + 12.5 mcg 12 hours later in the evening) week #3 + week #4
T4 (Thyroxine)- 50 mcg per day (25 mcg in the morning + 25 mcg 12 hours later) first 2 weeks, than 100 mcg per day (50 mcg in the morning + 50 mcg 12 hours later) week #3 + week #4

XYREM - every night before sleep - 4.5 grams 

5th, 6th, 7th, 8th week:

ANDROGENIC/ANABOLIC:

TESTOSTERONE Propionate 100 mg - every day
TESTOSTERON ENANTHATE 200 mg - every other day
TRENBOLONE Acetate 400 mg per week, week #5 + week #6
PRIMOBOLAN (Methelnolone) 600 mg per week, week #7 + week #8
EQUIPOSE (Boldenone ) 600 mg per week
WINSTROL (Stanozolol ) (tablets) 60 mg every day (20 mg every 8 hours)
OXYMETHOLONE (tablets) 150 mg per day (50 mg every 8 hours)

ANTI-ESTROGENS:

2-3 mg ARIMIDEX (Anastrozole) per day (1 mg in the morning, 1mg 12 hours later)

OTHER HORMONES:

Growth Hormone - 3-4 IU's ON EMPTY STOMACH and as many times a day as possible (12 to 16 units per day)

Insulin - HUMALOG, 15-20 units 1 hour before every training, as scheduled (depending on condition)

Thyroid:

T3 (Triiodothyronine) - 50 mcg per day (25 mcg morning + 25 mcg 12 hours later in the evening), first 2 weeks, than 75 mcg per day (37.5 mcg morning + 37.5 mcg 12 hours later in the evening) week #3 + week #4
T4 (Thyroxine)- 150 mcg per day (75 mcg in the morning + 75 mcg 12 hours later) first 2 weeks, than 200 mcg per day (100 mcg in the morning + 100 mcg 12 hours later) week #3 + week #4

XYREM - every night before sleeping 4.5 grams

9th, 10th, 11th, 12th week

ANDROGENIC/ANABOLIC:

TESTOSTERONE PROPIONATE 200 mg - every day
MASTERON (Drostanolon Propionate) 600 mg per week
OXANDROLONE (tablets) 60 mg every day (20 mg every 8 hours)
PRIMOBOLAN (Methelnolone) 600 mg per week, week #9 + week #10
HALOTESTIN (Fluoxymesterone) (tablets) 30 mg/day (10 mg every 8 hours)
PROVIRON (Mesterolone)(tablets) 150 mg/day (50 mg every 8 hours)
WINSTROL (Stanozolol) (injections) 50mg every day on week #9, 100mg every day on week #10, 150 mg every day on week #11...

ANTI-ESTROGENS:

3 mg ARIMIDEX (Anastrozole) per day (1 mg in the morning, 1mg 12 hours later)

OTHER HORMONES:

Growth Hormone - 3-4 IU's ON EMPTY STOMACH and as many times a day as possible (12 to 16 units per day)

Insulin - HUMALOG, 10 - 20 units 1 hour before every training, DEPENDING ON CONDITION

Thyroid:
T3 - (Triiodothyronine) - DEPENDS ON YOUR CONDITION
T4 (Thyroxine) - DEPENDS ON YOUR CONDITION

XYREM - every night before sleeping 4.5 grams 
__________________
Crazolade Crewke

----------


## Metalject

In my opinion the above cycle would be considered mild. So yes, people take this much gear and a whole lot more.

----------


## canesfan804

Thanks GB honestly I was expecting some criticism for being on multiple compounds and only 176 lbs. Although I don't run high doses it just seem like a lot of guys think you should be 225lbs @10% to run tren .

----------


## oldnsedentary

Have you used anavar in a cycle for cutting or contest prep, and what are your thoughts on it?

----------


## emayarsh

What are your thoughts on nolotil metal?

----------


## Capebuffalo

> What are your thoughts on nolotil metal?



My understanding is extreme pain even with the lidocaine mixed in. 
Painful inflammation for 2-5 days.

----------


## gearbox

> Thanks GB honestly I was expecting some criticism for being on multiple compounds and only 176 lbs. Although I don't run high doses it just seem like a lot of guys think you should be 225lbs @10% to run tren.


If someone was smart they would realize that everyone is different and some people cant get to 225 or 250 even on aas. But we like a rule of thumb cause we get newbies who are 5'10 and 150 and say they have been eating and training hard for 3 years with no gains. then we look into there diet of cereal, pbj's, and some chicken sandwiches.

Also many have no clue what lean really is. Everyone thinks there under 15%. It is pretty funny sometimes and annoying others.

Good luck to you and keep at it.

----------


## Metalject

> Have you used anavar in a cycle for cutting or contest prep, and what are your thoughts on it?



Yes I've used it, but it's not something I care to use. There's nothing wrong with it but there are better options. Good Anavar can be hard to find, and if it's good it can be pretty expensive.

----------


## Metalject

> What are your thoughts on nolotil metal?


I've never used it or recommended it.

----------


## Metalject

> Thanks GB honestly I was expecting some criticism for being on multiple compounds and only 176 lbs. Although I don't run high doses it just seem like a lot of guys think you should be 225lbs @10% to run tren.


A lot of guys also think if they time their meals out perfectly and drink the perfect amount of waxy maze 42.73 seconds after training that it will transform them into gargantuan mass. They're mistaken, you need to drink it 44.8 seconds after training with plenty of BCAA's and a meal of rice and goat cheese 38 minutes later.

----------


## stirated

> A lot of guys also think if they time their meals out perfectly and drink the perfect amount of waxy maze 42.73 seconds after training that it will transform them into gargantuan mass. They're mistaken, you need to drink it 44.8 seconds after training with plenty of BCAA's and a meal of rice and goat cheese 38 minutes later.


Lol, mate you forgot to mention all this must been done on the eve of a full moon while facing the star constellation growth.

----------


## kelkel

> A lot of guys also think if they time their meals out perfectly and drink the perfect amount of waxy maze 42.73 seconds after training that it will transform them into gargantuan mass. They're mistaken, you need to drink it 44.8 seconds after training with plenty of BCAA's and a meal of rice and goat cheese 38 minutes later.





> Lol, mate you forgot to mention all this must been done on the eve of a full moon while facing the star constellation growth.


All these years and I've been screwing it all up. Damn.

----------


## Metalject

> All these years and I've been screwing it all up. Damn.


I recommend buying your own goat. Make sure he has a really long beard. That will ensure you get the most bang for your buck.

----------


## stirated

> I recommend buying your own goat. Make sure he has a really long beard. That will ensure you get the most bang for your buck.


Just having had a look at some of the new threads started in the steroid section over the last few months im sure there is some goats over there lol

----------


## David PvP

Young goat checking in  :Big Grin:

----------


## carbman

Hey!
I have 14 months til my show. Now I'm wondering my bulk stuff. I have lots of deca and tren and test. Should I cycle like 8 weeks tren then change for 8 weeks for deca. I think I will use more anabolics than test but nothing is written in stone. Should I use only npp and tren ace or does it harm if I use long ester deca or tren. any other anabolics that you have used during bulk season before contest? 6-ghrp is it worth it? I have three years experience with steroids .

----------


## Capebuffalo

> Hey!
> I have 14 months til my show. Now I'm wondering my bulk stuff. I have lots of deca and tren and test. Should I cycle like 8 weeks tren then change for 8 weeks for deca. I think I will use more anabolics than test but nothing is written in stone. Should I use only npp and tren ace or does it harm if I use long ester deca or tren. any other anabolics that you have used during bulk season before contest? 6-ghrp is it worth it? I have three years experience with steroids.


Curious of your stats and what class you are aiming for.

----------


## carbman

I'm now 200 lb and 5.7" and about 10-12 %. Aiming for show under 200 lb. So I have to collect some serious mass in the next 7-8 months.

----------


## Capebuffalo

> I'm now 200 lb and 5.7" and about 10-12 %. Aiming for show under 200 lb. So I have to collect some serious mass in the next 7-8 months.


Those are some nice numbers. How old ?

----------


## carbman

I'm 25. I'm very serious about bodybuilding. It's my future, pleasure and destination. I can't wait for my first show.  :Smilie:

----------


## David PvP

Metal what is you're experience with eq?i noticed i cannot control my diet right when i am on it...i frenzy and eat icecream,then i repent of the sin...but it hapopens more and more often...

----------


## Metalject

> Metal what is you're experience with eq?i noticed i cannot control my diet right when i am on it...i frenzy and eat icecream,then i repent of the sin...but it hapopens more and more often...


I've never had any steroid increase my appetite or decrease it, at least not in the way people often mention. As far as its use, some here hate it and find it worthless, I disagree but it doesn't only serve a few specific good purposes.

*Good for adding more to a cycle when you don't want to increase the mg's of testosterone you're using or other items but you're looking for a little more punch overall, particular when using a lot of gear during prep. 

*Low dose female use can be OK at times.

----------


## David PvP

I want to cruise for a month or two i feel my body tired,then i want to go on test aroung 1g/w,and hgh maibe 4-5 iu/day,what do you think,? is this suffice for a bulk?,or should i add sometin like eq or deca ?

And another thing i wanted to ask you,did you noticed alot of people have very very different training styles but even tough they seem to do it wrong, for some it works,for example i have a stripper friend who trains 3-4 hours a day,allmost all muscle groups a day every day for 25 working sets per muscle group,but he look awesome,and he is only oh test 1k,winstrol ,Tbol and a lil hgh,with a very weird diet,someting like 30 egg wites a day lots of chicken breast,""""0 fat""",and cycles carbs like crazy.i have a few friends who get theyre training done in 30 mins,other hamer it for 50 sets per muscle group,others dont do crap just pump and leave,what you're toughts on this one?

----------


## Metalject

> I want to cruise for a month or two i feel my body tired,then i want to go on test aroung 1g/w,and hgh maibe 4-5 iu/day,what do you think,? is this suffice for a bulk?,or should i add sometin like eq or deca ?
> 
> And another thing i wanted to ask you,did you noticed alot of people have very very different training styles but even tough they seem to do it wrong, for some it works,for example i have a stripper friend who trains 3-4 hours a day,allmost all muscle groups a day every day for 25 working sets per muscle group,but he look awesome,and he is only oh test 1k,winstrol,Tbol and a lil hgh,with a very weird diet,someting like 30 egg wites a day lots of chicken breast,""""0 fat""",and cycles carbs like crazy.i have a few friends who get theyre training done in 30 mins,other hamer it for 50 sets per muscle group,others dont do crap just pump and leave,what you're toughts on this one?


I'm not sure exactly what your question is regarding cruising simply because I wouldn't call 1g of test/wk a break. If you feel your body needs a break, come off everything or at least to TRT levels. 

Training - everyone responds a little better to certain things. In my opinion, very few people respond well to very high volume training, they just beat the crap out of their body. Granted, if you're lean enough, even if you train like that you'll still look far better than the average guy, that's a given. And I sometimes wonder how many guys that do train high volume if they would look a little better if they didn't? Hard to say and impossible to prove if they never try it. Personally, I prefer lower volume. I wasn't always that way, when I started out I was very high volume (like most). High volume makes sense in our head. If I had it to do over again, I'd train 9-12 sets per body part once per week per body part, 8 rep range and if one week a certain body part was hurting (actual pain, not sore but pain) I'd lay off it that week or push back training it until it feels better.

----------


## Times Roman

Brother Metal

Sorry for not showing up earlier. This could be my first time in the door. Just wanted to say hello and see how things are with you?

---Roman

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## Metalject

> Brother Metal
> 
> Sorry for not showing up earlier. This could be my first time in the door. Just wanted to say hello and see how things are with you?
> 
> ---Roman


Things are good. Just living life. Thanks for asking  :Smilie:

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## David PvP

_I want to cruise for a month or two i feel my body tired,then i want to go on test aroung 1g/w,and hgh maibe 4-5 iu/day,what do you think,? is this suffice for a bulk?,or should i add sometin like eq or deca ?
_

i meant afther the 2 moth trt period,and i see trt around 150 test/week.......

About training i somewhat share youre opinion,i too feel that my body responds perfect to a brief stimulation but very intense,short period betwen sets,very simple training,and around 7-9 sets per bodypart,i just wonder how can some people still train in the 30's sets and make progress.....wouldnt they be much better if they lay off the volume....???


And i want to share with you someting i experimented on yself,i can clearly say i cannot control my diet on EQ,i would eat a dead rat if i see one,even tough this is what i think i still like to include all posibilities,and another reason why i might think i cannot controll it is because i am doing it for too long...afther a while you get enough of the same chicken breast,same oatmeal,same crap every every every day.....

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## David PvP

And i also wanted to ask you if you noticed the importance of stress in life and in muscle building? few weeks ago i had some problems and i was stressed 24/7 for a couple of weeks and i could feel my body turning in to shyt,no energy no drive nothing,and now afther things got alot better i feel i can fly,i think stress affects us more than we know....just saying

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## Metalject

Sure, stress can make things hard. For myself, if I'm really stressed going to the gym is a big help. It's the one place where I can block out all the things going on in my life, it's the one place where you can feel you have control over a situation when you may be lacking as much control in other areas of your life. Energy may be lower and you may feel drained, but once you get going into your workout things usually start to click.

Then there's food...I know a lot of people gorge and eat stupid when they're stressed. My natural instinct when I'm stressed is to stop eating, I lose my appetite. But again, staying on at least some level of consistency with eating along with training really helps me manage my stress.

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## David PvP

Sad to say i am one of those people that when stress is high i eat like a idiot....always feel guilty afther....and swear to myself it is the last time...

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## cannix

i need help with my contest prep please!
I am currently 5.5 weeks out of my first show. I am currently on 100mg test p eod, 40mg of var ed, 40mg of winny ed(oral), and .5 arimidex eod. I also had masteron but my at home tests determined it bunk so ill have to make due with what i have. i also have nolva, clomid, and exemestane on hand.
my question; what combination of the doses of the test, winny and the anti e's will get me to come in the leanest/dry as possible?
stats: 24yrs old, 5'11, 205 at 9% bf caliper tested as of week 6. diet and training done by my coach

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## Metalject

> i need help with my contest prep please!
> I am currently 5.5 weeks out of my first show. I am currently on 100mg test p eod, 40mg of var ed, 40mg of winny ed(oral), and .5 arimidex eod. I also had masteron but my at home tests determined it bunk so ill have to make due with what i have. i also have nolva, clomid, and exemestane on hand.
> my question; what combination of the doses of the test, winny and the anti e's will get me to come in the leanest/dry as possible?
> stats: 24yrs old, 5'11, 205 at 9% bf caliper tested as of week 6. diet and training done by my coach


Generally I increase anastrozole to 1mg/ed the last two wks of the diet. Seems to help dry you out, also makes you feel like crap though. Winny, 50-100mg/ed is pretty common. If I used winny I'd typically stay at 50mg/ed and sometimes increase to 100mg/ed the last 2wks or so. Testosterone , hard to say and I wouldn't attempt to without seeing what you look like. I've had diets where my testosterone dose was 1000mg/wk or more all the way until the very end, and diets where it was at a TRT level at the end...just depends on the situation.

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## cannix

Awesome thank you. that is my major hang up is doses leading to show, especially testosterone . my worst nightmare is keeping it in and looking watery on stage(literally a dream i had). I am on a carb cycling diet, with 2 low days for every high.

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## Mp859

Just transitioning into prep and just started some mast e about 2 weeks ago. I have ran it multiple times but for whatever reason Ive lost my appetite. Normally would be fine if I was starting to diet but I was going to continue to try and hold size while the longer Esters build up. Have you had an issue with mast e doing this?


I was thinking about throwing an oral in but I'm scared now that my appetite has already diminished.

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## Metalject

I've never used mast-e, just regular masteron prop. 
Sometimes I have a hard time eating all the food when I start a diet and I normally have an appetite that never ends, but dieting is different. Best thing to do is just to force the food down one way or another. Things will eventually click and your appetite will come back around.

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## Metalject

> Awesome thank you. that is my major hang up is doses leading to show, especially testosterone. my worst nightmare is keeping it in and looking watery on stage(literally a dream i had). I am on a carb cycling diet, with 2 low days for every high.


Being at 9% with 5wks left, you have your work cut out for you, I'm not saying it's impossible but it's going to be a rough few weeks. I'd worry more about losing the fat you need to lose than how dry you're going to look, at least at the moment that should be your only focus. 

You're at the phase where things can really start stagnating when it comes to fat loss and often this is when changes need to occur in your diet and cardio plan. Small changes are normally needed throughout the diet but they can be a little bigger at this stage. I'm not saying to reinvent you're whole diet, just examine what's in front of you and ask yourself if you think you can drop another 5% in 5wks on the current plan as is.

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## David PvP

Did you ever had gyno problems? i am currently on prop 350/w,tren ace 700/w,and nippels are hard and sensitive,and i cant understand why since prop should not aromatize at taht low of a dose...also arimidex 0.25 eod,added vit b6 for progesterone since i cant find caber in my country,and diet is on spot only carbs in are oats,i want to start using nolva 20 ed but heard that it doesnt go along with tren,i might get my hands on letrozole in a couple of dayz ,you think it might help?

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## David PvP

btw added 2 photos of my progress in 1 year,the fat shed is about 77 lbs,and i still have alot of fat...i think i am around 15 % fat atm,and around 35 when i started

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## Metalject

Testosterone aromatizes regardless of the form of testosterone you use and regardless of the dose you're using. Gyno results in aromatization increasing estradiol levels to a point to where they activate the mammary tissue in the chest. Where this threshold is will be different for every man. But it's possible to develop gyno with a TRT dose of testosterone...it's not as likely as some tend to think but still very possible. So that would lend to gyno being possible with any dose of testosterone. 

Nipples being hard and sensitive does not mean it's gyno, it could be a possible early indicator of gyno but it's not the best one. Your nipples can become more sensitive due to increases in libido. It's very common for men to start taking testosterone, libido goes up and nipples become more sensitive and more erect. Now this can become less common when you're taking massive doses of testosterone and other hormones, still possible (very) but a little less. Reason - libido functions best when everything's honed in. As you're at a lower dose of testosterone but still in the performance range, you may simply be at a more stable hormonal level and balance between testosterone and estradiol, therefore a stronger libido and more active nipples. 

Advice - have your testosterone and E2 sensitive levels checked. If all looks good, then the issue is not E2 induced gyno. You may also want to see where progresterone is at. Tren is a progesterone and can activate the mammary tissue just like estradiol even though the Tren hormone itself does not aromatize. Tren induced gynecomastia is not as common as testosterone induced, but it does occur. If you need caber to help with this but have no access, try Prami, AR-R has it. I do not know if they ship to your area or not, I'm sure they can answer that for you. 

As for my own personal gyno history, I had a decent size lump grow under the right side of my right nipple, not under the nipple but to the left. Started out about the size of a dime and grew to about the size of a quarter but rounder in depth. I took Letrzole 2.5mg/ed for 14 days, reduced to 1mg/ed for 1wk and it had for the most part subsided. I then switched back to anastrozole, 1mg/ed for a wk or two and then 0.5mg for the remainder. No issues since. 

I have noticed in the past few months that the area around my nipples and front of my chest is a little flabbier than it's been in quite awhile. I'm hoping getting back on the wagon a little harder with diet and training will take care of it. But I do suspect (strongly suspect) that if I ever decided to bodybuild again, I would need to have my glands removed. At the age I'm at now and the past history of use and hormone craziness everywhere, I think full-blown gyno supreme would result if I didn't. 

Oh and on the Nolvadex question, I'm not sure I can answer this as I'm not aware of Nolva having a negative affect on Tren. Maybe someone else can speak on that. But if the problem is gyno that is already rearing symptoms, I'd have very little faith that it can remedy it. If it's gyno that's already set in, and it doesn't sound like it from the way you described it but if it is, in such cases having it removed is all you can do. 

Congratulations on your progress! You can definitely tell you've made notable and good changes, KEEP IT UP!

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## David PvP

Thanks Metal  :Smilie:

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## Wintermaul

I'm curious about the off-season. How do you lay out a whole year when you got 2-3 shows?
All the talk is usually about contest-prep and i understand why, but how is the off-season. You explained that you need to do more gear when prepping for contest than the off-season but how do you "gear-up" in the off-season?
If you got spring-contests, of 2-3 or something, you save 12-14 weeks for the cut but the other weeks after contest or before you start cutting, do you just maintain? Or do you bulk up heavy to come back next season with loads of new muscle or what?
Would have been nice if you got time to give an example of a whole year, but i understand that its very individual.

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## Metalject

> I'm curious about the off-season. How do you lay out a whole year when you got 2-3 shows?
> All the talk is usually about contest-prep and i understand why, but how is the off-season. You explained that you need to do more gear when prepping for contest than the off-season but how do you "gear-up" in the off-season?
> If you got spring-contests, of 2-3 or something, you save 12-14 weeks for the cut but the other weeks after contest or before you start cutting, do you just maintain? Or do you bulk up heavy to come back next season with loads of new muscle or what?
> Would have been nice if you got time to give an example of a whole year, but i understand that its very individual.


A year for me would look something like this:

Jan-March (maybe into April depending on show date(s)
A lot of testosterone , fair amount of nandrolone , maybe rotating Tren and Nandrolone if a long off-season. Sometimes Dbol sometimes not - but it's never really used for any other than because it's fun with one exception. In some cases I've used Dbol to help break past a sticking point. For me, that's the only real beneficial use I've ever had for it.

After first 3-4 months of the year, start contest cycle. I might run only testosterone before the prep starts, but that just depends on timing and needs. 
Run contest style stacks from April/May-August or September. That's only if doing multiple shows.

If only doing one show or a couple shows back to back, that means contest prep for 16-18wks and once shows are over stay on low dose of testosterone.

There were plenty of years Nov-Dec I ran nothing. Maybe 200mg of testosterone, or maybe not. 

And there were years where I stayed on off-seaon plans for long periods of time, maybe 9 months of the year and then 3 months of prep. So those years was full gear use the whole time. 

I never had a set thing I followed every year. Each year simply went the way I needed it to go based on the shows I wanted to do, 

So as you can see, off-season cycles were fairly simple for me. I didn't mess with HGH during the off-season. Back then I could only afford HGH during prep. Funny, now that I have more money I have no desire to bodybuild...that's the way life often goes.

Sample off-season stack for me:

Test-e (usually Testoviron ) 1000-1750mg/wk
Nandrolone 400-600mg/wk
I ran 800-900mg/wk of nandrolone a couple times but I felt very strange so I stopped.
If I used Dbol it would be anywhere from 50-100mg/ed
If Tren was used in off-season it would be preceded by 8wks of NPP and then I'd start Tren. I'd run Tren and NPP together for 1-2 was and then Tren only. If Tren was used, normally at 400-500mg/wk. 

So again, as you can see more gear was used in contest prep. For example, although Nandrolone might make me feel weird at a higher dose in the off-season I'd run it at a high dose I prep, and Tren for me was normally 600-700mg during prep. Then add all the other things, it's just a lot of gear.

Is it/was it all worth it for me? Heck, I don't know. I don't have any health issues other than low testosterone - nothing life threatening. I did enjoy my bodybuilding time but it did cost a lot of money and you could call it wasted money. It definitely held my life back in many areas and it dies most who mess with it.

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## David PvP

What was your experience with EQ over the years?

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## Mp859

> What was your experience with EQ over the years?


 I'm curious about this too. Because I love running eq honestly. But you never see anyone on this site that likes it.

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## NACH3

Hey Metal... Thx for sharing your planned out year when in off season to prep! Very interesting, I always knew many ran more gear during prep... But thought the off season was when/where they(any BB) tried packing on as much LBM as possible(as the pros are staying leaner now a days) and figured their blasts would be much higher doses for shorter durations(ie; Short Burst Cycling/Slingshot method etc) 

I'm thinking(I'm on HRT already) but would like to transform my body further and in a year I think it's very possible... I'm looking to blast for 4-6wks at high doses... Bring test down(what would you say is a good dose(just upper end TRT like 200-50/wk)... BW.... Re prime... And hit another blast but if BW comes back gtg I'd like to do this for a yr or so... What are your thoughts! I do do some fitness modeling as well(so one of the many reasons to do what I'm planning plus to push the limits for myself! 
Thanks Metal!

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## Metalject

> What was your experience with EQ over the years?


Was the first steroid I ever used. I didn't really know what I was doing at the time. It was around 12wks at 400mg a week with the last 4 or 5wks having 50mg of Winstrol added in every other day. Gained some decent strength and looked a little better but it wasn't anything to write home about. As years went by and I figured out what I was doing I would regularly use EQ during the first 8wks of prep, normally around 200mg/eod. I think it's a decent steroid for prep, particularly the front end but for off-season bulking, if you're really looking to pack on size, it's not the best choice. Can you make gains? Yes, but there are better options.

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## Metalject

> Hey Metal... Thx for sharing your planned out year when in off season to prep! Very interesting, I always knew many ran more gear during prep... But thought the off season was when/where they(any BB) tried packing on as much LBM as possible(as the pros are staying leaner now a days) and figured their blasts would be much higher doses for shorter durations(ie; Short Burst Cycling/Slingshot method etc) 
> 
> I'm thinking(I'm on HRT already) but would like to transform my body further and in a year I think it's very possible... I'm looking to blast for 4-6wks at high doses... Bring test down(what would you say is a good dose(just upper end TRT like 200-50/wk)... BW.... Re prime... And hit another blast but if BW comes back gtg I'd like to do this for a yr or so... What are your thoughts! I do do some fitness modeling as well(so one of the many reasons to do what I'm planning plus to push the limits for myself! 
> Thanks Metal!


What a pro does is anyone's guess and whatever you can guess is probably right as it pertains to the person in question. There are plenty of them that do short high dose blast and plenty who run longer plans. It just depends on what works from them. You get to that level and by that time you've usually figured out what works better. 

As far as your plan, I assume you want to stay as lean and hard as possible due to modeling. If that's the case, just keep your testosterone levels where you feel best, don't get too worried about the actual dosing amount. You may need 200mg/wk to do that, but you may only need 100mg. When it comes to the transformation you're looking for, other items will be more beneficial. In my opinion, Tren and Masteron would be good picks. I don't know what your experience or comfort level with those steroids is but 300-500mg/wk of both can transform you in a big way. If you can add HGH to it then even better.

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## tice1212

> . If you can add HGH to it then even better.


Since u brought up HGH I have a question. I really want to bring my body to the next level and I know that HGH can do that but I know I will need 5+iu ed, so pharmacy grade is out of the question and not just from me but from a bunch of people. Is Chinese colored tops the only other way to go around getting more for ur buck? People keep saying its crap but st the same time I keep seeing people that are on it making insane results along side AAS. is it best just to stay a way from it or is there respectable Chinese makers out there?

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## Metalject

The Chinese stuff is really the only way you can go unless you're filthy rich. The bad news is there's a ton of crap out there, but the good news is there's plenty of decent stuff too. It can be a role of the dice. 

As far as how much you need, you always here people say you have to stay on it for a year or more to get anything out of it, I disagree. Yes, the longer you stay on the better but shorter periods of use can still be beneficial. 12-16wks of use leading up to comp can make a big difference in conditioning and your overall look.

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## NACH3

> The Chinese stuff is really the only way you can go unless you're filthy rich. The bad news is there's a ton of crap out there, but the good news is there's plenty of decent stuff too. It can be a role of the dice. 
> 
> As far as how much you need, you always here people say you have to stay on it for a year or more to get anything out of it, I disagree. Yes, the longer you stay on the better but shorter periods of use can still be beneficial. 12-16wks of use leading up to comp can make a big difference in conditioning and your overall look.


I gotta buddy who uses generics(or the Chinese stuff) he get bw all the time(but we know hes gotta get it while it's pulsing) but he even said I get some really good stuff and other times it's Sh!t! Like Metal said it's definitely a roll of the dice but he's gotten some great results(he's been running it for a couple yrs now(and he'll also switch back and forth from RX to generics(obviously the price)...

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## OdinsOtherSon

Metal, just finished reading the entire thread. Just wanted to say thanks for taking your time to share. Personally, I found your thoughts to be very beneficial and solid advice. Happy New Year bro!

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## oldnsedentary

Metalject, if one has poor genetics for this sport, is insulin use necessary to do well as an amateur? Can anybody, even with good genetics, turn pro without it?

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## Mp859

> Metalject, if one has poor genetics for this sport, is insulin use necessary to do well as an amateur? Can anybody, even with good genetics, turn pro without it?


 I know multiple top amateurs and they all use it on and off. But the initial big size they put is in part due to insulin IMO.

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## Mp859

> Metalject, if one has poor genetics for this sport, is insulin use necessary to do well as an amateur? Can anybody, even with good genetics, turn pro without it?


 I know multiple top amateurs and they all use it on and off. But the initial big size they put is in part due to insulin IMO.

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## SOL!D5NAK3

I dunno if anyone asked you this or no but what do you think about synthol? I'm not talking about those crazy guys injecting the oil like crazy who look like idiots, but i'm curious about the science behind it and that whole thing about it can go into muscle fascia and make room for grow? Do you know anyone who used it? 

* btwI'm not gonna use it for sure

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## Metalject

> Metalject, if one has poor genetics for this sport, is insulin use necessary to do well as an amateur? Can anybody, even with good genetics, turn pro without it?


Necessary to do well as an amateur? No, not necessary.
Turn pro without it? Yes, you can turn pro without it.
Do well as a pro? Define do well? Win the Olympia? Probably not.

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## Metalject

> I dunno if anyone asked you this or no but what do you think about synthol? I'm not talking about those crazy guys injecting the oil like crazy who look like idiots, but i'm curious about the science behind it and that whole thing about it can go into muscle fascia and make room for grow? Do you know anyone who used it? 
> 
> * btwI'm not gonna use it for sure


I know quite a few who've used it, meaning they have outright admitted it to me. In some cases it looks fine and most wouldn't know. In many it looks weird. What the secret is to weird or not weird I honestly don't know. I have zero experience with it.

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## MIKE_XXL

There are number of options for SEO now and personally i think there are better options then Synthol that produce more natural results, i have not used any but know few people that have with varying level of results and appearances...depends if one is intelligent about using it or just reckless....the results will be vastly different...

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## SOL!D5NAK3

> There are number of options for SEO now and personally i think there are better options then Synthol that produce more natural results, i have not used any but know few people that have with varying level of results and appearances...depends if one is intelligent about using it or just reckless....the results will be vastly different...


Hi mike, could you explain more? Do you believe in site hypertrophy with water based drugs?? 
Bustin loyd is using synthol and he is saying that synthol is the best supplement , i'm not approving his method but there are some secrets about those big guys . You see there is so much negative talk about steroids , and now synthol , i know some idiots injecting them and look like clouds but don't you think it has it's place ??

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## Mp859

> Hi mike, could you explain more? Do you believe in site hypertrophy with water based drugs?? Bustin loyd is using synthol and he is saying that synthol is the best supplement , i'm not approving his method but there are some secrets about those big guys . You see there is so much negative talk about steroids , and now synthol , i know some idiots injecting them and look like clouds but don't you think it has it's place ??


 and inflammation will cause you to blur the definition in your arms. Synthol If done properly in the off season it works very well. 

Bostin loyd doesn't know what he is doing. His arms look like balloons.

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## MIKE_XXL

Google SEOs you will see other options come up then synthol, the idea is to stretch the fascia tissue surrounding your muscle cells. from what i understand fascia tissue has a tensile strength of steel at some point can become limiting factor of growth. MP859 is right if used properly SEO can be used to expand that space and and improve muscle growth in the specific site. but it is a tricky subject...

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