# STEROIDS FORUM > ANABOLIC STEROIDS - QUESTIONS & ANSWERS >  Hey!! CHECK THIS GUY OUT!!(movie)

## Decakur

http://steroidsviciouscycles.com/HTM...hotos2Win.html

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## t-money

Holy $#!+

T

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## Aboot

Been posted.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=138515

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## kafabe

I am not knocking the guy by no means, but I do not believe he is telling the whole story here. i know guys that juiced from the time they were 22 to they were 48 and now he is 53 and still in great health and looks like he is about 38. But he did take time off and do pct after all cycles and did not go nuts injecting everything in site. Most guys like on the video usually have some type of painkiller addiction on top of the gear and it is a number of factors that gave him those results not just the gear. Just my observation.

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## JdFlex

Makes you think.

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## IGOTJUICE007

i think its great that the guy is sharing his experiece. However, I think the reason why lectures like this are not effective in the most part is because they always (for obvious reasons) select in individual with an extreme situation that prevents audience members from relating with the individual. For example, who have you ever read on this board is doing 13 injectables at once, as this man claimed he did. 
Dont get me wrong, many of his points are valid, but the more we know with science, the better we are able to do this safely. I do agree with him about the GH/slin guts, those are very aesthetically unpleaseing. 

Back to the basic rule that applies to everything......anything in excess can be detrimental

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## Odin

This guy's story is totally messed up, 1. 3 cycles would not have made that big of a jump from the last natural picure to the other one unless they were really long cycles. Second my joint's feel better than ever while I'm on because of water retention? How the hell could he be having so many problems. Steroids do nothing to dull pain at all unless you consider the anti-inflamitory effect which would help heal if anything. Hell, i would not be supprised if that were his twin brother who did get jacked up, and he needed some money for his drinking habit so he spruced up this F*cked up story for a bottle of cheap wine  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## hawkeye1877

13 diffrent **** at one time?

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## MrMondodondo

This guy talks about all this pain and still working out hard??????

I agree that he probably had a serious addiction to pain killers. 13 injectables at once??? Hell, I have trouble getting 3 or 4? Is there even 13 that can be bought???

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## dr.shred

wow really makes you think doesn't it

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## Money Boss Hustla

Plain and simple...the guy wasn't smart. 13 compounds at once!? How much of each compound? How long did he run 17aa orals for? Did he ever do a PCT? How long did he cycle for? Ever take proper amounts of time off. Too many variables.

Doing neck raises with 200 pounds!? Steroids didn't hurt him...his own stupidity did!!!

I hate how stupid people play the victim.

If anyone wants to vent...here ya go.  :Big Grin: 
[email protected]

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## bignatt

He was fvcking swole

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## hill8985

This video only makes me more appreciative of the resources we have today, like being able to share info and talk on boards like this. Makes you wonder how many things like this could have been avoided.

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## GetinBig

> Plain and simple...the guy wasn't smart. 13 compounds at once!? How much of each compound? How long did he run 17aa orals for? Did he ever do a PCT? How long did he cycle for? Ever take proper amounts of time off. Too many variables.
> 
> Doing neck raises with 200 pounds!? Steroids didn't hurt him...his own stupidity did!!!
> 
> I hate how stupid people play the victim.
> 
> If anyone wants to vent...here ya go. 
> [email protected]



I agree MBH he was a jack A$$. But he was big. LOL

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## imann

Talk about skrinkage..lol

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## bignatt

im still in shock about how good that guy looked

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## bmwrob

20 years ago there wern't resources like this board to educate ourselves with. Everything in moderation.

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## bmwrob

> im still in shock about how good that guy looked


And how crappy he looked afterwards. I have seen Dorain and Lee Haney and they are still pretty big. Not as big as before, but still big.

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## LimitsAreNothing

All I can say is wow. that is one extreme of the juice game. He makes 1 or 2 good points the rest of his issues from juice was self inflicted due to his own stupidity. 13 injectables....geez

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## KGBnine

I amost stopped watching after his 200 pound neck raise story with a helmet . I knew after hearing that example, the rest of his story would be filled with harmful things he did later, like 13 compounds at once.

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## LimitsAreNothing

check this out! this guy is a total tool. He is selling his own "diet program" and nutritional suppliments. As well as "composing" bodybuilders posing music!!! (for a fee of course)

http://www.professionaldiets.com/index_html.htm
http://www.tganci.com/index_html2c.htm


what a jackass. He is making money off of people that are doing what he said not to.

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## Jdawg50

That was interesting... he's a dummy but interesting

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## LACBodybuilder

That guy was an idiot. Its people like him that give steroids a bad name in the media. 200lb neck raises, thats just awesome. i think ill go to the gym right now and give that one a try. Or maybe ill just let a truck run headfirst into the top of my head. same effect either way.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Monkeytown

I agree with what he said about Arnold looking so good. The guys today just don't look that good because their organs are too big and their stomachs are distended. Look at a pic one arnold in his prime. That was the perfect human specimen. JMHO

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## KGBnine

his first ad says he works out 3x per week, second says 2x per week. Seems inconsistent

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## PlasticFuture112

its good to take it in consideration but we all need to realize that most definatelly he was nt on a cycle that was well planned out. i mean come on, thirteen injectables so say? thats proposterous. second of all the knowledge known now compaired to the knowledge form the past has chaned drastically. why do you think the market for steroids is at an alltime high? because the companies want kids falling over and dying, heart attacks at 25? No, thats why they spend tens of millions of dollars researching EVERYTHING about the drugs being made so that the human being can get the most out of it while having the least amount of problems, being both long term and short term. I mean i feel for the guy and all, i bet he had a really tough life of self-conciousness and shame to where he felt the only way to fit in was to use AAS but in all reality people need to realize that most definatelly this was an organized public speaking brought to you by some company against steroids and what there about and hired him and their posterboy. I dont mean to sound like a bigot but i personally feel that if the research done by a potential AAS user is sought out in the right manner, and designs a well-processed cycle that has been critiqued by many who have already used the drugs before, hence this board, then a person will be able to have a cycle that is the safest for him or her and also be able to keep the gains along with minimizing the side effects both long term and short term.

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## poppapump58

I believe in doing everything in moderation. 13 injectibles at once, no wonder he was fukt.

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## SVC

I'm not trying to judge, bash or preach to adults over the age of 23 that are able to make a rational decision. I'm trying to communicate to kids that don't realize if they cycle before the age of 23, they can't grow any taller because their growth plates stabilize and also show them the possible repercussions of abuse.

Nearly half a million middle- and high-schoolers admit to at least trying anabolic steroids , according to the National Institute on Drug Abuse.

I once shared the same opinions many of you do. Once the juice was totally out of my system, I could see more clearly... When I did the cycle with 13 steroids at the same time it was for 8 weeks. I always went off for 6 months out of the year, from June to January. I NEVER DID MORE THAN 200 MGS. OF TEST PER WEEK. I never did anadrol 50 or any toxic orals either. My SGOTS never went over 50. I was doing small amounts of many. My cycles were mild compared to what others were and are doing. Especially compared to the original reference guide THE UNDERGROUND STEROID HANDBOOK, author Dan Duchaine died at 48. I NEVER ABUSED PAIN KILLERS & I STILL DON'T TAKE THEM. 

Do you guys think it's normal that some shoot 50cc's of synthol, just so they can walk around with big arms, with no intention of ever competing?

Do you think the early death and health problems of the following was normal?

> Sonny Schmidt died at 46
> Scott Klein died at 30
> Ron Teufel died at 45
> Dan Duchaine died at 48
> Mohammed Benaziza died at 28
> Andreas Munzer died at 30
> Mike Mentzer died at 49
> Ray Mentzer died at 47
> Don Ross died at 55
> Dr. John Tristany died
> Don Peters died
> Ray Raridon died
> Arnold Schwarzenegger (heart problems)
> Don Long (kidney failure)
> Tom Prince (kidney failure)
> Flex Wheeler (kidney transplant)
> Ed Corney (stroke)
> Boyer Coe (heart)
> Danny Padilla (heart)
> Pete Grymkowski (heart)
> Lyle Alzado died at 42
> Curt Hennig died at 44
> Davey Boy Smith died at 39
> Louie "Spicolli" Mucciolo died at 27
> Ravishing Rick Rude died at 40
> Brian Pillman died at 35
> 62 Finnish power-lifters suspected of using steroids died at a rate five times higher than average

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## Money Boss Hustla

> > Curt Hennig died at 44
> > Davey Boy Smith died at 39
> > Louie "Spicolli" Mucciolo died at 27
> > Ravishing Rick Rude died at 40
> > Brian Pillman died at 35


Who are you? Are you Todd himself?

Curt Hennig - pain killer addiction
Davey Both Smith - severe cocaine addiction, 8 baller
Louie Mucciolo - bad lifestyle, obeseity
Rick Rude - pain killer addiction
Brain Pillman - pain killer addiction

These have been documented. You are bending the truth to fit your own motives.

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## BigMike J

no comment

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## AG5678

> I'm not trying to judge, bash or preach to adults over the age of 23 that are able to make a rational decision. I'm trying to communicate to kids that don't realize if they cycle before the age of 23, they can't grow any taller because their growth plates stabilize and also show them the possible repercussions of abuse.
> 
> Nearly half a million middle- and high-schoolers admit to at least trying anabolic steroids , according to the National Institute on Drug Abuse.
> 
> I once shared the same opinions many of you do. Once the juice was totally out of my system, I could see more clearly... When I did the cycle with 13 steroids at the same time it was for 8 weeks. I always went off for 6 months out of the year, from June to January. I NEVER DID MORE THAN 200 MGS. OF TEST PER WEEK. I never did anadrol 50 or any toxic orals either. My SGOTS never went over 50. I was doing small amounts of many. My cycles were mild compared to what others were and are doing. Especially compared to the original reference guide THE UNDERGROUND STEROID HANDBOOK, author Dan Duchaine died at 48. I NEVER ABUSED PAIN KILLERS & I STILL DON'T TAKE THEM. 
> 
> Do you guys think it's normal that some shoot 50cc's of synthol, just so they can walk around with big arms, with no intention of ever competing?
> 
> Do you think the early death and health problems of the following was normal?
> ...


1) I don't believe about what he said when you juice you loose ALL of it. There are alot of factors in that. 2) I heard that Arnold had heart problems and stuff but it wasn't becuase of the use of steroids it was some type of disease that ran in the family.

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## Money Boss Hustla

Tom Prince's kidneys were hurt from copious amounts of anti-inflamatories!! Not AS!! Ask him yourself!!

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## Money Boss Hustla

Lyle Alzado died of brain cancer. No proof that is was caused by AS.

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## Money Boss Hustla

Dan Duchaine was his own guinea pig. He risked too much.

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## Money Boss Hustla

Andreas Munzer died of dehydration from preparing for a contest. Precontest drugs killed him...not AS.

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## Carlos_E

> I'm the guy in the video


Prove it.




> Do you guys think it's normal that some shoot 50cc's of synthol, just so they can walk around with big arms, with no intention of ever competing?


No it's not normal and it's not the norm in body buildling either. You state it as if we're all doing it. Ask anyone here and 90% of the people here will tell you how stupid synthol looks.

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## BigJames

SVC...you really the guy in the video?

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## Carlos_E

Todd Ganci straight up ABUSED steroids . I mean come on, when his body was hurting he just took more pain killers. He self medicated. When my body hurts I skip the gym and if it continues to hurt I go see a doctor. I think this guy is an extreme, not the norm.

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## Money Boss Hustla

Complete BS SVC. I just picked apart your post. If you are really Todd...then please let's continue the conversation.

There is a total hidden agenda. Bad mouthing AS so you can make money on your own products and services. Traitor. Total sell out. 

Get off your soapboxyou hurt yourself. Steroids did not hurt you. Your lack of understanding and stupidity (200lb neck raises) are the culprits. You abused your bodynot AS!! If AS are so bad why is there HRT? Huh? Doctors prescribe it!! People take test shot every week. You have named but a few people who have used ASwhat about the rest of the population of users? Results and sides are individual. Your experiences do not represent the AS world. 

Case closed for another greedy entrepreneur. Go market somewhere else.

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## BigJames

I agree with Carlos E about synthol...a synthed up guy is the stupidest thing I have ever seen.

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## AG5678

> Complete BS SVC. I just picked apart your post. If you are really Todd...then please let's continue the conversation.
> 
> There is a total hidden agenda. Bad mouthing AS so you can make money on your own products and services. Traitor. Total sell out. 
> 
> Get off your soapboxyou hurt yourself. Steroids did not hurt you. Your lack of understanding and stupidity (200lb neck raises) are the culprits. You abused your bodynot AS!! If AS are so bad why is there HRT? Huh? Doctors prescribe it!! People take test shot every week. You have named but a few people who have used ASwhat about the rest of the population of users? Results and sides are individual. Your experiences do not represent the AS world. 
> 
> Case closed for another greedy entrepreneur. Go market somewhere else.


Totally Agree! That guys a fukin dumb***

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## bluethunder

I am still trying to picture someone using 200lbs for his neck and now he claims limited range of motion. DUH!! Besides I am not sure its possible ,but I am surely am not going to find out.

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## -2z-

> Plain and simple...the guy wasn't smart. 13 compounds at once!? How much of each compound? How long did he run 17aa orals for? Did he ever do a PCT? How long did he cycle for? Ever take proper amounts of time off. Too many variables.
> 
> Doing neck raises with 200 pounds!? Steroids didn't hurt him...his own stupidity did!!!


I agree. The first thing I noticed was that many of his practices are exact opposites of what is recommended on many boards. I understand he didn't have the net available then, but at least get monitored by a doctor and use some common sense.

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## KGBnine

I sent this guy the link to this thread through his email address, so yes I do beleive it is him.

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## LimitsAreNothing

That was great boss, put a clown down on his ass. lol peace

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## KGBnine

> Prove it.
> 
> 
> 
> No it's not normal and it's not the norm in body buildling either. You state it as if we're all doing it. Ask anyone here and 90% of the people here will tell you how stupid synthol looks.



I wouldn't doubt if it's the guy, a few hours ago I sent him an email linking this page, because I wanted to see what he had to say about some of the questions in it.I don't like how he takes his example of blatant misuse of drugs and acts like it's the norm for all take anabolics. At least he came to try to defend himself.

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## BDTR

A type of brain cancer found nearly entirely in AIDS patients.




> Lyle Alzado died of brain cancer. No proof that is was caused by AS.

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## Money Boss Hustla

> A type of brain cancer found nearly entirely in AIDS patients.


See. Exactly! Whoever posted that crap (Todd or not) is a clown.

I'm going to eat supper. Whole f'ing thing is pissing me off.  :Wink/Grin:

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## P Rock

i think this guy is full of sh.t he use to be on the juice looked good, then became a crack head and lost his size, now he is talking nonsense.

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## SVC

Money Boss Hustla calling me a greedy entrepreneur? That's priceless... Why do so many of you take my opinions & facts so personally? Misery loves company? Did you even compete? Are you going to? If not, what do you hope to gain by juicing? So you can look good walking around? If so, that's malignant dumb! Please explain why you're so pissed that I'm trying educate kids about AS?






> Complete BS SVC. I just picked apart your post. If you are really Todd...then please let's continue the conversation.
> 
> There is a total hidden agenda. Bad mouthing AS so you can make money on your own products and services. Traitor. Total sell out. 
> 
> Get off your soapboxyou hurt yourself. Steroids did not hurt you. Your lack of understanding and stupidity (200lb neck raises) are the culprits. You abused your bodynot AS!! If AS are so bad why is there HRT? Huh? Doctors prescribe it!! People take test shot every week. You have named but a few people who have used ASwhat about the rest of the population of users? Results and sides are individual. Your experiences do not represent the AS world. 
> 
> Case closed for another greedy entrepreneur. Go market somewhere else.

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## Aboot

> Money Boss Hustla calling me a greedy entrepreneur? That's priceless... Why do so many of you take my opinions & facts so personally? Misery loves company? Did you even compete? Are you going to? If not, what do you hope to gain by juicing? So you can look good walking around? If so, that's malignant dumb! Please explain why you're so pissed that I'm trying educate kids about AS?


Education is one thing, misrepresentation is another.

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## KGBnine

> Money Boss Hustla calling me a greedy entrepreneur? That's priceless... Why do so many of you take my opinions & facts so personally? Misery loves company? Did you even compete? Are you going to? If not, what do you hope to gain by juicing? So you can look good walking around? If so, that's malignant dumb! Please explain why you're so pissed that I'm trying educate kids about AS?


Not pissed, but you definitely give AAS users a bad wrap.Granted we know more now than back when you cycled, but a bad arap nontheless. I'm not sure why you would attach 200 lbs to your head, but thats another story. As for educated kids about AAS, not a bad idea at all. In fact anybody under 21 is strongly discouraged to use steroids on this board. Why would somebody need to compete if they wanted to use steroids ? I don't think it's mandatory.

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## profbiv

Blah blah blah whine whine whine ect.



Anything in excess is bad. Counting down the days till Im back on cycle

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## KINGKONG

> Money Boss Hustla calling me a greedy entrepreneur? That's priceless... Why do so many of you take my opinions & facts so personally? Misery loves company? Did you even compete? Are you going to? If not, what do you hope to gain by juicing? So you can look good walking around? If so, that's malignant dumb! Please explain why you're so pissed that I'm trying educate kids about AS?


You made me think,so if it's your goal 
good job and thanx for the insight
KP

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## AG5678

> Money Boss Hustla calling me a greedy entrepreneur? That's priceless... Why do so many of you take my opinions & facts so personally? Misery loves company? Did you even compete? Are you going to? If not, what do you hope to gain by juicing? So you can look good walking around? If so, that's malignant dumb! Please explain why you're so pissed that I'm trying educate kids about AS?


Encourage kids or take money from kids to use your diet methods or w/e the **** you do. 1) Why in the hell would you put 200 pounds of pressure on your neck? Sorry Mr. but thats pretty stupid your just hurting your own body after your telling people to prevent hurting themselves.2) why don't you explain to everyone what your cycle consisted of and what kind of PCT you ran? 3) i also disagree with you when you said when you take steroids you loose everything but when you lift natural you keep it all. I get what your saying but you are misrepresenting steroids by saying that you loose everything.

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## meat

you know i could have a good friend of mine who is a quad. go do a conference and give a speach about alchohol and what it did to him but one persons account with a certain substance should not be considered the main focus of an end result .like many of people have already said any thing taken with out proper care , understanding,or respect will yield unsat. results. good vid but it is one persons story for whatever reasons and like said before ,there are way to many hidden factors to put into account with his story.and as far as why someone would do steroids if they dont plan to compete ? that question has limitless answers . every one makes life decisions for whatever reasons...just make sure you know what youre getting yourself into before you dirk yourself up and then do a confrence and blame it on you doing 2 cycles as a teen.... believe none of what you here and half of what you see... do the research yourself.

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## spywizard

Stupid is as stupid does... 

can you say community service??

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## SteveeeO

really makes me think twice about going on the darkside..

you guys all fight for it and don't want to beleive it because 90% of the people on this board aren't natural, but in reality we all know it's not safe. This guys stupidity definately did him wrong, but everyone I know that has juiced has had an injury of some sort - from muscle tears to shoulder surgeries, correlation?

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## zodiac66

The darkside is truly alcohol, rec.drugs, and cigarettes. Kids get those on any corner, anytime.

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## AG5678

> really makes me think twice about going on the darkside..
> 
> you guys all fight for it and don't want to beleive it because 90% of the people on this board aren't natural, but in reality we all know it's not safe. This guys stupidity definately did him wrong, but everyone I know that has juiced has had an injury of some sort - from muscle tears to shoulder surgeries, correlation?


1) im natural and im still disagreeing by what the man is saying. 2) there are ways to play it safe i believe it can be safe if you plan it correctly.

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## Guardian74

I've got a great idea...Allow adults to make decisions for themselves and stop ramming your opinions down someone else's throat and make a buck in the process.

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## LimitsAreNothing

"dont do steroids !!"
"but if you want to get ripped buy my supps and let me plan a diet for you!!!"
" you will be huge and cut in no time!!"
" Will that be cash or charge??"

 :Devil Grin:   :Devil Grin:   :Devil Grin:

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## SteveeeO

> 1) im natural and im still disagreeing by what the man is saying. 2) there are ways to play it safe i *believe* it can be safe if you plan it correctly.


  :EEK!:  

There is no safe route to getting bigger faster.

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## LACBodybuilder

Bump for MBH on all the good points. I dont think one death that guy pointed out can actually be proven to be steroids . a bunch of propoganda crap used to make me buy this guys supplements. Hey SVC, will you except my goldcard? First purchase I want to make from you is one of these nifty helmets i m hearing so much about.

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## BASK8KACE

Just take this video with a grain of salt. Don't reject it. Instead, understand it, be aware of his situation and make sure it doesn't happen to you.

The truth is that you can use steroids relatively safely if you stay aware of the dangers and heed the warnings. You get into trouble when you get so comfortable with using steroids that you stop using them safely.

Although this person's experience is a bit over the top, it reminds people that there are dangers that need to be avoided. I don't think we should automatically write off cases like these as just stupidity. Part of his problems came from his lack of restraint, his lack of concern for safety, and the desire to push himself, which turned out to be too far.

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## seanw

> Just take this video with a grain of salt. Don't reject it. Instead, understand it, be aware of his situation and make sure it doesn't happen to you.
> 
> The truth is that you can use steroids relatively safely if you stay aware of the dangers and heed the warnings. You get into trouble when you get so comfortable with using steroids that you stop using them safely.
> 
> Although this person's experience is a bit over the top, it reminds people that there are dangers that need to be avoided. I don't think we should automatically write off cases like these as just stupidity. Part of his problems came from his lack of restraint, his lack of concern for safety, and the desire to push himself, which turned out to be too far.



Yet another insightfull and educated response from BASK8KACE, very well said bro !!!!

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## KGBnine

> Just take this video with a grain of salt. Don't reject it. Instead, understand it, be aware of his situation and make sure it doesn't happen to you.
> 
> The truth is that you can use steroids relatively safely if you stay aware of the dangers and heed the warnings. You get into trouble when you get so comfortable with using steroids that you stop using them safely.
> 
> Although this person's experience is a bit over the top, it reminds people that there are dangers that need to be avoided. I don't think we should automatically write off cases like these as just stupidity. Part of his problems came from his lack of restraint, his lack of concern for safety, and the desire to push himself, which turned out to be too far.


Excellent point.

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## AG5678

> There is no safe route to getting bigger faster.


It depends on what safe means to you?

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## Money Boss Hustla

> Money Boss Hustla calling me a greedy entrepreneur? That's priceless... Why do so many of you take my opinions & facts so personally? Misery loves company? Did you even compete? Are you going to? If not, what do you hope to gain by juicing? So you can look good walking around? If so, that's malignant dumb! Please explain why you're so pissed that I'm trying educate kids about AS?


 
To be honest Todd...I am upset. I'm sick of people bad mouthing AS for their own personal gain. AS is not bad...people abusing them are. Guns don't kill...jack*sses using them do. Place the blame deservingly.

Priceless!? You are exploiting the people in this fear mongering society we live in. Do you not stand to profit from this? Absolutely you do! You "scare" people from using AS onto legal supplements ie) your products. "Listen up people and I will tell you the horror stories of AS." Why not just take a positive approach and say "Hey folks look what I can do naturally!" You are using a negative approach. You are being a spin doctor. Fortunately knowledgeable people see through your agenda and call bullsh*t.

Educate!? Bullsh*t! Your sermons are nothing but biased rhetoric. Did AS hurt your neck? No. I'm sorry that it happened (truly I am)...but you're at fault. Stop placing the blame on AS...point the finger at your own mistakes. Admit it. You messed up. You screwed yourself and now you have a chip on your shoulder. AS didn't make you do 200lb neck raises. What was with that!? However, in typical fashion today you seek escapism and place the blame away from yourself. Why is it so hard to say to yourself...I did this...not AS. You're not the victim of AS Todd...you're the victim of poor technique, knowledge, and judgment.

You're not a savior offering salvation...you're pitching your own hidden agenda. The facade has been lifted Todd. You hurt yourself...not AS.

Case closed.  :Cheers:

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## LACBodybuilder

> To be honest Todd...I am upset. I'm sick of people bad mouthing AS for their own personal gain. AS is not bad...people abusing them are. Guns don't kill...jack*sses using them do. Place the blame deservingly.
> 
> Priceless!? You are exploiting the people in this fear mongering society we live in. Do you not stand to profit from this? Absolutely you do! You "scare" people from using AS onto legal supplements ie) your products. "Listen up people and I will tell you the horror stories of AS." Why not just take a positive approach and say "Hey folks look what I can do naturally!" You are using a negative approach. You are being a spin doctor. Fortunately knowledgeable people see through your agenda and call bullsh*t.
> 
> Educate!? Bullsh*t! Your sermons are nothing but biased rhetoric. Did AS hurt your neck? No. I'm sorry that it happened (truly I am)...but you're at fault. Stop placing the blame on AS...point the finger at your own mistakes. Admit it. You messed up. You screwed yourself and now you have a chip on your shoulder. AS didn't make you do 200lb neck raises. What was with that!? However, in typical fashion today you seek escapism and place the blame away from yourself. Why is it so hard to say to yourself...I did this...not AS. You're not the victim of AS Todd...you're the victim of poor technique, knowledge, and judgment.
> 
> You're not a savior offering salvation...you're pitching your own hidden agenda. The facade has been lifted Todd. You hurt yourself...not AS.
> 
> Case closed.


Touche'.

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## Odin

SVC, I bet during that video when you showed the picture of you after steroids when you looked huge and ripped as hell, and heard them kids saying "WOW, Amazing, God..... I bet deep down you were a little happy to have them seeing you look so dam good. You only live once and you made some dumb mistakes and also I should mention you looked better than 99.99% of the poplulation walking around today will ever look like. lata

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## HollywoodM3

Please elaborate on your steroid use , you say 13 injectables at once..tells me nothing. If your so into educating use, please by all means, step up on the soap box, everyone hear wants to listen, and learn. I would really like to see a detailed description of your cycles, and works outs, along with diets. You talk to crowds who know nothing about steroid use, now you have the chace to talk with people on this board who have lots of knowledge. how come your not selling workout programs? cuz nobody would buy them because of all your injuries, why would anyone want to buy your diet? anyway, I would love to hear what you have to say, also can you please tell us your educational background, and dates and times when you started steroids and ended them.

Thanks for your time and effort in teaching us

HM

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## kubano28

> check this out! this guy is a total tool. He is selling his own "diet program" and nutritional suppliments. As well as "composing" bodybuilders posing music!!! (for a fee of course)
> 
> http://www.professionaldiets.com/index_html.htm
> http://www.tganci.com/index_html2c.htm
> 
> 
> what a jackass. He is making money off of people that are doing what he said not to.


there might be some truth about this guy ,but i still thinK hes full of crap,this is what he said:
I've had both hips replaced twice,
a total left shoulder replacement,
I workout 3 times a week for 20
minutes at home on a Band Flex
machine. I perform No Cardio,
And he's still able to workout and look like he did in his last pic,sh!t,i aint buyint it

----------


## MER

13? Honestly thats like a part time job. He was a big boy though.

----------


## masswithclass

I'm gonna catch **** for saying this but oh well. Most of you guys are putting him down but his physique smokes everyone on this board!!! The resources available today were not around back then so you just did what you had to to get huge. I believe every word the guy said because i'm a vet and i have problems from my years of juicing also. I did moderate doses and i'm currently waiting for a kidney transplant. Pound for pound i was just like that guy and now my joints feel like an old mans. If you think there are no consequences to our lifestyle you need to check yourself.

----------


## Sta11ion

I do agree with you, he did both to himself. He abused AS and he abused his body. I will not take away from him that he did work hard for his achievements, but by him not being upfront and not saying 100% the truth he will never be able to get the respect by people who know the truth and are educated on the subject(AS).


> To be honest Todd...I am upset. I'm sick of people bad mouthing AS for their own personal gain. AS is not bad...people abusing them are. Guns don't kill...jack*sses using them do. Place the blame deservingly.
> 
> Priceless!? You are exploiting the people in this fear mongering society we live in. Do you not stand to profit from this? Absolutely you do! You "scare" people from using AS onto legal supplements ie) your products. "Listen up people and I will tell you the horror stories of AS." Why not just take a positive approach and say "Hey folks look what I can do naturally!" You are using a negative approach. You are being a spin doctor. Fortunately knowledgeable people see through your agenda and call bullsh*t.
> 
> Educate!? Bullsh*t! Your sermons are nothing but biased rhetoric. Did AS hurt your neck? No. I'm sorry that it happened (truly I am)...but you're at fault. Stop placing the blame on AS...point the finger at your own mistakes. Admit it. You messed up. You screwed yourself and now you have a chip on your shoulder. AS didn't make you do 200lb neck raises. What was with that!? However, in typical fashion today you seek escapism and place the blame away from yourself. Why is it so hard to say to yourself...I did this...not AS. You're not the victim of AS Todd...you're the victim of poor technique, knowledge, and judgment.
> 
> You're not a savior offering salvation...you're pitching your own hidden agenda. The facade has been lifted Todd. You hurt yourself...not AS.
> 
> Case closed.

----------


## AG5678

> I'm gonna catch **** for saying this but oh well. Most of you guys are putting him down but his physique smokes everyone on this board!!! The resources available today were not around back then so you just did what you had to to get huge. I believe every word the guy said because i'm a vet and i have problems from my years of juicing also. I did moderate doses and i'm currently waiting for a kidney transplant. Pound for pound i was just like that guy and now my joints feel like an old mans. If you think there are no consequences to our lifestyle you need to check yourself.


Bro I respect you for competing. But the guy obliviously hurt himself! Now on the subject of you needing a kidney transplant we don't know the background of your life at all! Now im not disagreeing with you, we hear its a common thing when pros need surgeries for example Milos Sarcev, Flex Wheeler, and most likely Ronnie and so on..... But there are bodybuilders out there that us AS in a reasonable amount like Arnold did or a guy on this board I know him personally and hes going to compete and hes up to 225 and looks GREAT!!!!! And he uses AS in a very reasonable and safe amount he has never had any sides I think the most extreme side he has had so far was a nosebleed!

----------


## t-money

> To be honest Todd...I am upset. I'm sick of people bad mouthing AS for their own personal gain. AS is not bad...people abusing them are. Guns don't kill...jack*sses using them do. Place the blame deservingly.
> 
> Priceless!? You are exploiting the people in this fear mongering society we live in. Do you not stand to profit from this? Absolutely you do! You "scare" people from using AS onto legal supplements ie) your products. "Listen up people and I will tell you the horror stories of AS." Why not just take a positive approach and say "Hey folks look what I can do naturally!" You are using a negative approach. You are being a spin doctor. Fortunately knowledgeable people see through your agenda and call bullsh*t.
> 
> Educate!? Bullsh*t! Your sermons are nothing but biased rhetoric. Did AS hurt your neck? No. I'm sorry that it happened (truly I am)...but you're at fault. Stop placing the blame on AS...point the finger at your own mistakes. Admit it. You messed up. You screwed yourself and now you have a chip on your shoulder. AS didn't make you do 200lb neck raises. What was with that!? However, in typical fashion today you seek escapism and place the blame away from yourself. Why is it so hard to say to yourself...I did this...not AS. You're not the victim of AS Todd...you're the victim of poor technique, knowledge, and judgment.
> 
> You're not a savior offering salvation...you're pitching your own hidden agenda. The facade has been lifted Todd. You hurt yourself...not AS.
> 
> Case closed.


Beautiful post MBH.

T

----------


## Natural1

sorry for the newbie question but what does synthol make u look like?It was in a post yesterday and i was just wondering.

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> sorry for the newbie question but what does synthol make u look like?It was in a post yesterday and i was just wondering.


http://www.greggvalentino.net/



Blow out!

----------


## PlasticFuture112

the sad thing is you wanna believe thats photoshopped but its really not. man that is discusting. didnt he live in arizona and was busted for illegally distributing AAS in the states a few years ago?

----------


## GREENMACHINE

That first pic is hilarious the guys arms are bigger than his head




> http://www.greggvalentino.net/
> 
> 
> 
> Blow out!

----------


## Cuttup

scary [email protected]

----------


## Cuttup

Greg Valentino looks like Swole Cat on 13 compounds at once,.lol..no lash out to Swole but [email protected]!!!! Seriously though, thats just Fuc#in Ignorant, his arms dont even look good,...thats some rediculous [email protected]

----------


## Muscleone

> http://steroidsviciouscycles.com/HTM...hotos2Win.html


Thanks for the clip. Makes you think....

----------


## jaffry20

> Thanks for the clip. Makes you think....


Yah bro no doubt, no im fukin scared ****less of juicin, fuk me, ah well get this next cycle done with and see how it goes from there maybe just hit it up naturally for the rest, i don't wanna die i just wanna lift :Strong Smiley:

----------


## AG5678

> I'm not trying to judge, bash or preach to adults over the age of 23 that are able to make a rational decision. I'm trying to communicate to kids that don't realize if they cycle before the age of 23, they can't grow any taller because their growth plates stabilize and also show them the possible repercussions of abuse.
> 
> Nearly half a million middle- and high-schoolers admit to at least trying anabolic steroids , according to the National Institute on Drug Abuse.
> 
> I once shared the same opinions many of you do. Once the juice was totally out of my system, I could see more clearly... When I did the cycle with 13 steroids at the same time it was for 8 weeks. I always went off for 6 months out of the year, from June to January. I NEVER DID MORE THAN 200 MGS. OF TEST PER WEEK. I never did anadrol 50 or any toxic orals either. My SGOTS never went over 50. I was doing small amounts of many. My cycles were mild compared to what others were and are doing. Especially compared to the original reference guide THE UNDERGROUND STEROID HANDBOOK, author Dan Duchaine died at 48. I NEVER ABUSED PAIN KILLERS & I STILL DON'T TAKE THEM. 
> 
> Do you guys think it's normal that some shoot 50cc's of synthol, just so they can walk around with big arms, with no intention of ever competing?
> 
> Do you think the early death and health problems of the following was normal?
> ...


That fuken puss* never responed what a *****

----------


## SVC

To clarify some of what was wriiten about me:

1) I didn't set up SteroidsViciousCycles.com to push my products & services. If you log on you'll see, I removed all links to my other sites and my name off everything.
2) I don't write up diets and workout programs for kids. 90% of my clients compete and are (25-50).
3) I'm certainly no preaching angel. 

Something that wasn't mentioned in the video. Most of the guys I used to workout have no balls, literally. Their bodies cannot create testosterone , they have to wear patches for life!!!

Make sure you get off for at least 6 weeks between cycles to let your body normalize itself. 

I was once where you guys are. Years ago I thought Lyle Alzado was dick for going on talk shows and blaming AS for his problems.

I don't blame AS for what happened to me. It was the way I acted on juice that caused me to total myself. If I wasn't on juice I never would have been able to bench 500 or squat 700 for reps...

I was always the smallest kid growing up... when I got cock strong I wanted show off and blow everyone's mind by pushing sick weights. To the point of doing really weird stuff like lifting 2 bills with my neck.

----------


## PlasticFuture112

bro by that last statement your totally acting like a hypocrit! bro basically from all this just take it like your just writing more checks your a$$ cant cash. enough with it. learn from it and go on. Take the video as you will but dont deny what you said. You flat out blamed AAS for your problems. Im done.

----------


## Carlos_E

> I don't blame AS for what happened to me. It was the way I acted on juice that caused me to total myself. If I wasn't on juice I never would have been able to bench 500 or squat 700 for reps...
> 
> I was always the smallest kid growing up... when I got cock strong I wanted show off and blow everyone's mind by pushing sick weights. To the point of doing really weird stuff like lifting 2 bills with my neck.


_"It was the way I acted on juice that caused me to total myself."_

In this statement you're still blaming steroids for your the way you acted. The steroids did not make you hang 200 pounds off of your neck. Steroids did not make you ignore your body when you were in so much pain you had to sleep sitting up. Poor judgment and utter disregard for your health and safety is not a side effect of steroid use . This is something you had within yourself even before touching the stuff. No concern for your health or well being what so ever.

----------


## Ntpadude

> 20 years ago there wern't resources like this board to educate ourselves with. Everything in moderation.


Well the man mentioned everything we are doing today. He did clomid, Nolva, EQ, etc. His problems are probably most related to winny and EQ but then he also said he was forced off cycles because he got sick. Well let me say... I hold my weight pretty good post cycle with clomid, tongkat is a new thing that helps us out even better then clomid alone, but after 2 months off, I have to admit, I start shrinking too. I really dont doubt his tale of loosing all his gains, that is pitfall #1 for all of us with steroids , its very hard to keep, especially on the long term.

----------


## AG5678

> _"It was the way I acted on juice that caused me to total myself."_
> 
> In this statement you're still blaming steroids for your the way you acted. The steroids did not make you hang 200 pounds off of your neck. Steroids did not make you ignore your body when you were in so much pain you had to sleep sitting up. Poor judgment and utter disregard for your health and safety is not a side effect of steroid use. This is something you had within yourself even before touching the stuff. No concern for your health or well being what so ever.


Totally agree

----------


## AG5678

> _"It was the way I acted on juice that caused me to total myself."_
> 
> In this statement you're still blaming steroids for your the way you acted. The steroids did not make you hang 200 pounds off of your neck. Steroids did not make you ignore your body when you were in so much pain you had to sleep sitting up. Poor judgment and utter disregard for your health and safety is not a side effect of steroid use. This is something you had within yourself even before touching the stuff. No concern for your health or well being what so ever.


Totally agree

----------


## AG5678

> _"It was the way I acted on juice that caused me to total myself."_
> 
> In this statement you're still blaming steroids for your the way you acted. The steroids did not make you hang 200 pounds off of your neck. Steroids did not make you ignore your body when you were in so much pain you had to sleep sitting up. Poor judgment and utter disregard for your health and safety is not a side effect of steroid use. This is something you had within yourself even before touching the stuff. No concern for your health or well being what so ever.


Totally agree

----------


## AG5678

> _"It was the way I acted on juice that caused me to total myself."_
> 
> In this statement you're still blaming steroids for your the way you acted. The steroids did not make you hang 200 pounds off of your neck. Steroids did not make you ignore your body when you were in so much pain you had to sleep sitting up. Poor judgment and utter disregard for your health and safety is not a side effect of steroid use. This is something you had within yourself even before touching the stuff. No concern for your health or well being what so ever.


Totally agree

----------


## AG5678

> _"It was the way I acted on juice that caused me to total myself."_
> 
> In this statement you're still blaming steroids for your the way you acted. The steroids did not make you hang 200 pounds off of your neck. Steroids did not make you ignore your body when you were in so much pain you had to sleep sitting up. Poor judgment and utter disregard for your health and safety is not a side effect of steroid use. This is something you had within yourself even before touching the stuff. No concern for your health or well being what so ever.


Totally agree but you forgot the mix of 13 different compounds at once and using pain killers to finish w/o.

----------


## AG5678

> _"It was the way I acted on juice that caused me to total myself."_
> 
> In this statement you're still blaming steroids for your the way you acted. The steroids did not make you hang 200 pounds off of your neck. Steroids did not make you ignore your body when you were in so much pain you had to sleep sitting up. Poor judgment and utter disregard for your health and safety is not a side effect of steroid use. This is something you had within yourself even before touching the stuff. No concern for your health or well being what so ever.


Totally agree but you forgot the mix of 13 different compounds at once and using pain killers to finish w/o.

----------


## AG5678

> _"It was the way I acted on juice that caused me to total myself."_
> 
> In this statement you're still blaming steroids for your the way you acted. The steroids did not make you hang 200 pounds off of your neck. Steroids did not make you ignore your body when you were in so much pain you had to sleep sitting up. Poor judgment and utter disregard for your health and safety is not a side effect of steroid use. This is something you had within yourself even before touching the stuff. No concern for your health or well being what so ever.


Totally agree but you forgot the mix of 13 different compounds at once and using pain killers to finish w/o.

----------


## AG5678

> _"It was the way I acted on juice that caused me to total myself."_
> 
> In this statement you're still blaming steroids for your the way you acted. The steroids did not make you hang 200 pounds off of your neck. Steroids did not make you ignore your body when you were in so much pain you had to sleep sitting up. Poor judgment and utter disregard for your health and safety is not a side effect of steroid use. This is something you had within yourself even before touching the stuff. No concern for your health or well being what so ever.


Totally agree but you forgot the mix of 13 different compounds at once and using pain killers to finish w/o.

----------


## AG5678

Totally agree with Carlos but you forgot how he mixed 13 different compunds at once and how he used pain killers to finish w/o

----------


## AG5678

Totally agree with Carlos but you forgot how he mixed 13 different compunds at once and how he used pain killers to finish w/o

----------


## Ntpadude

> Money Boss Hustla calling me a greedy entrepreneur? That's priceless... Why do so many of you take my opinions & facts so personally? Misery loves company? Did you even compete? Are you going to? If not, what do you hope to gain by juicing? So you can look good walking around? If so, that's malignant dumb! Please explain why you're so pissed that I'm trying educate kids about AS?


I agree about the under 23 thing... in fact most of the guys here except the under 23'rs agree with you on that front. On the other end, I think your 30-something that tries out steroids for the first time is more likely use reasonable doses of steroids and perhaps even not be as crazy with the over the top workout regiment. Like your older 30 to 40 something is more like looking for the fountain of youth, one last chance to get muscular before getting old and often as a HRT doc told me once, these guys actually have a real medical need for testosterone supplementation.

On the other hand dude... your workout regiment is what caused those medical mishaps. You could have worked out longer and got to the same place, but had you done 200 lbs on the neck naturally I think the end result would be the same. As for the shoulder and hip thing, well those are classic injuries from Winstrol and Equipoise and very much in line with what we know about the steroids that cause drying of the bone joints so I dont see any reason to doubt your story.

----------


## Ntpadude

> Money Boss Hustla calling me a greedy entrepreneur? That's priceless... Why do so many of you take my opinions & facts so personally? Misery loves company? Did you even compete? Are you going to? If not, what do you hope to gain by juicing? So you can look good walking around? If so, that's malignant dumb! Please explain why you're so pissed that I'm trying educate kids about AS?


I agree about the under 23 thing... in fact most of the guys here except the under 23'rs agree with you on that front. On the other end, I think your 30-something that tries out steroids for the first time is more likely use reasonable doses of steroids and perhaps even not be as crazy with the over the top workout regiment. Like your older 30 to 40 something is more like looking for the fountain of youth, one last chance to get muscular before getting old and often as a HRT doc told me once, these guys actually have a real medical need for testosterone supplementation.

On the other hand dude... your workout regiment is what caused those medical mishaps. You could have worked out longer and got to the same place, but had you done 200 lbs on the neck naturally I think the end result would be the same. As for the shoulder and hip thing, well those are classic injuries from Winstrol and Equipoise and very much in line with what we know about the steroids that cause drying of the bone joints so I dont see any reason to doubt your story.

----------


## kswat

How about just using AAS in modeeration and being careful???

----------


## KGBnine

> To clarify some of what was wriiten about me:
> 
> 1) I didn't set up SteroidsViciousCycles.com to push my products & services. If you log on you'll see, I removed all links to my other sites and my name off everything.
> 2) I don't write up diets and workout programs for kids. 90% of my clients compete and are (25-50).
> 3) I'm certainly no preaching angel. 
> 
> Something that wasn't mentioned in the video. Most of the guys I used to workout have no balls, literally. Their bodies cannot create testosterone , they have to wear patches for life!!!
> 
> Make sure you get off for at least 6 weeks between cycles to let your body normalize itself. 
> ...


Thanks for clarifying yourself. It takes balls to come on here, but I think you are doing the right thing, and we can understand your message better now. Unfortunately you had to endure some health problems, but we can learn from them and try to be as safe as possible.

----------


## seanw

> To clarify some of what was wriiten about me:
> 
> 1) I didn't set up SteroidsViciousCycles.com to push my products & services. If you log on you'll see, I removed all links to my other sites and my name off everything.
> 2) I don't write up diets and workout programs for kids. 90% of my clients compete and are (25-50).
> 3) I'm certainly no preaching angel. 
> 
> Something that wasn't mentioned in the video. Most of the guys I used to workout have no balls, literally. Their bodies cannot create testosterone , they have to wear patches for life!!!
> 
> Make sure you get off for at least 6 weeks between cycles to let your body normalize itself. 
> ...


Bro when I first saw the video and read your initial posts I thought you were a total dickhead, but after this I have changed my opinion. At least you had the balls in front of all of us to clarify what you are doing, and trying to do. Good luck with your health in the future

----------


## Big Lo

I have been around juice and body builders and powerlifters for around six years now. I have never heard of anyone doing 13 different injectables or doing anykind of neck exercise (not machines) with 200 pounds. This guy isn't messed up because of steroids he's messed up because he took it to the extreme. There is no point of taking that much that fast at the same time. After a certain amount your body starts converting the testosterone to estrogen. He's lucky he didn't have a heart attack along time ago. A shoulder and hip replacements should be the last of his worries. If he did all that he did he's lucky he didn't kill himself.

----------


## SVC

My heart rate has never been the same since the first time I used steroids . I now have arrhythmia which is sporadic (heart races then slows down) and my resting pulse is now 85, prior to cycling it was 60. 

All you guys are a lot more knowledgeable than I was 20 years ago. I didn't have the resources you do. 20 years ago everyone thought MORE was better. Most guys including me trained at least 3 hours per day 6 days per week. PUSH - LEGS - PULL (each twice a week) Mon & Thur (chest, shoulders & tris) Tues & Fri (legs) Wed & Sat (back & bis). It wasn't until the early 90's that Mike Mentzer brought to light the fact that more isn't better... and most started training 3 times per week. 

20 years ago there were guys in the gym injecting 10cc's of TE at a time (2000 mg) and taking 5 A50's per day, so I thought I was doing things in moderation. As I mentioned before my SGOT's never went over 50. Speaking of SGOT's, best discovery since the wheel, MILK THISTLE EXTRACT (silymarin), regenerates your liver. It can be found at Walmart, 180 capsules - $10. If you insist on cycling I would highly recommend it!

----------


## DEVLDOG

> My heart rate has never been the same since the first time I used steroids . I now have arrhythmia which is sporadic (heart races then slows down) and my resting pulse is now 85, prior to cycling it was 60. 
> 
> All you guys are a lot more knowledgeable than I was 20 years ago. I didn't have the resources you do. 20 years ago everyone thought MORE was better. Most guys including me trained at least 3 hours per day 6 days per week. PUSH - LEGS - PULL (each twice a week) Mon & Thur (chest, shoulders & tris) Tues & Fri (legs) Wed & Sat (back & bis). It wasn't until the early 90's that Mike Mentzer brought to light the fact that more isn't better... and most started training 3 times per week. 
> 
> 20 years ago there were guys in the gym injecting 10cc's of TE at a time (2000 mg) and taking 5 A50's per day, so I thought I was doing things in moderation. As I mentioned before my SGOT's never went over 50. Speaking of SGOT's, best discovery since the wheel, MILK THISTLE EXTRACT (silymarin), regenerates your liver. It can be found at Walmart, 180 capsules - $10. If you insist on cycling I would highly recommend it!


everything else aside bro,since you were one of a few who ever achive that pro bodybuilder look,do us all a favor and give us some insight on the "REAL" dosages that are needed to achieve that look...diet,training and cardio aside.

----------


## Odin

> To clarify some of what was wriiten about me:
> 
> 1) I didn't set up SteroidsViciousCycles.com to push my products & services. If you log on you'll see, I removed all links to my other sites and my name off everything.
> 2) I don't write up diets and workout programs for kids. 90% of my clients compete and are (25-50).
> 3) I'm certainly no preaching angel. 
> 
> Something that wasn't mentioned in the video. Most of the guys I used to workout have no balls, literally. Their bodies cannot create testosterone , they have to wear patches for life!!!
> 
> Make sure you get off for at least 6 weeks between cycles to let your body normalize itself. 
> ...


OK i Like the way your talking now. Your right we are the same kind of people as you were. Your saying your ego got the best of you while on Gear, and I agree it's hard saying F*ck the 1 rep bench I doing 8 reps with incline dumbells instead, Even harder when hot chicks are around. Hey with the way you looked back then I really don't feel sorry for you now. Just think of all the poor girls having to go back to their boyfriends after seeing you. Sh*t you should have used clomid and tired to maintain not only did you have a super build but you had a perfect face, hair and teeth, "I 100% straight by the way" You could have went into acting easily with all that going for you. Your training really sucked, AND you were small to begin with, Steroids must have really loved your body from the way you look, I bet their are a lot of people your age that wish they could look back at the memory you've had. I think we could learn a lot from you. I really don't like the way you were talking to them kids giving them junk but I do need to respect you also, cause you could be a jerk and call anyone out here and ask them to put their pic up against yours, in which most would not want to do and for good reason's.

----------


## bignatt

Ya i must say your physique was amazing

----------


## KINGKONG

> everything else aside bro,since you were one of a few who ever achive that pro bodybuilder look,do us all a favor and give us some insight on the "REAL" dosages that are needed to achieve that look...diet,training and cardio aside.


I would be interested to see one of your cycles myself....

----------


## LORDBLiTZ

LOL, MBH just owned him on every word that came out of his mouth.

----------


## bigritz

i think the guy should be speaking against ppl being stupid frickin morons not against using gear. i mean cummon what a f*ckin tard. he should get tard of the century for how dumb he was at using gear. im kinda new to the game and i know i'll never be that frickin dumb .....he should have closed his speech with "deerrreeerreerrr im dahhh waaaater boooooy ......derrrerrreerrrr"

----------


## muscleShredder

He competed for years. Winner of the 1988 MR. USA. I seen him yesterday and he is still in the greasest shape of his life. Obviously that guy in the video was not doing something right. If you need great advice you need 

 :Strong Smiley:  John Defendis  :Strong Smiley:

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> a weekend warrior can be excused for ignorance, but not a pro. it was YOUR JOB to know this stuff, don't blame the drugs for your own bad judgement.


Yup.

----------


## AG5678

i might start a thread on something like this tonight or in the upcoming days to end this shi*

----------


## DEVLDOG

i want to hear what his cycles looked like,thats all im interested in,i could care less about all the other nonsense,he's got an angle to make money..good for him.so he's bad mouthing steroids .do you really think there will be a change in the law during our lifetime..i dont.so dont knock him for trying to capitalize on it.lets get what info we can use out of him and then wish him luck in his endevors.

give up the cycles bro..more important the doses

----------


## Muscleone

First of all your video was very educational and I am sorry for what has happened to your health. There are a lot of closed minded and cold people in this world as you have seen on this forum. Hopefully you ignore negativity. I don't critisize or judge anything you have done concerning your use of steroids or your training. I'm 41 years old and I too have had injuries from the use of steroids over the years although not nearly as bad as yours. When you were in your prime using steroids everything back then was more is better like you said. Everybody trained each body part twice a week several hours a day. Yes, you went to extremes with your training but anybody that wants to be his best usually does. Young people today have more resources to do research on steroids. Something we didn't have in our 20's. Hopefully with your video and seminars you can make young people aware of the mistakes you made and they can learn from them. Hopefully something good can come from your misfortune. I respect your courage and honesty and wish you the best. 



QUOTE=SVC]My heart rate has never been the same since the first time I used steroids. I now have arrhythmia which is sporadic (heart races then slows down) and my resting pulse is now 85, prior to cycling it was 60. 

All you guys are a lot more knowledgeable than I was 20 years ago. I didn't have the resources you do. 20 years ago everyone thought MORE was better. Most guys including me trained at least 3 hours per day 6 days per week. PUSH - LEGS - PULL (each twice a week) Mon & Thur (chest, shoulders & tris) Tues & Fri (legs) Wed & Sat (back & bis). It wasn't until the early 90's that Mike Mentzer brought to light the fact that more isn't better... and most started training 3 times per week. 

20 years ago there were guys in the gym injecting 10cc's of TE at a time (2000 mg) and taking 5 A50's per day, so I thought I was doing things in moderation. As I mentioned before my SGOT's never went over 50. Speaking of SGOT's, best discovery since the wheel, MILK THISTLE EXTRACT (silymarin), regenerates your liver. It can be found at Walmart, 180 capsules - $10. If you insist on cycling I would highly recommend it![/QUOTE]

----------


## AG5678

[QUOTE=Muscleone]First of all your video was very educational and I am sorry for what has happened to your health. There are a lot of closed minded and cold people in this world as you have seen on this forum. Hopefully you ignore negativity. I don't critisize or judge anything you have done concerning your use of steroids or your training. I'm 41 years old and I too have had injuries from the use of steroids over the years although not nearly as bad as yours. When you were in your prime using steroids everything back then was more is better like you said. Everybody trained each body part twice a week several hours a day. Yes, you went to extremes with your training but anybody that wants to be his best usually does. Young people today have more resources to do research on steroids. Something we didn't have in our 20's. Hopefully with your video and seminars you can make young people aware of the mistakes you made and they can learn from them. Hopefully something good can come from your misfortune. I respect your courage and honesty and wish you the best. 


For one thing how old were you when you started AS and are you still doing it today? Another what did your cycles look like? It would be hard to judge because we know nothing about your previous history and you possibly ABUSING AS or not! What type of injuries have you suffered? And what Todd is doing is he is lying to people not "teens" about AS. You don't think older people watch the movies "hey we did".

----------


## AG5678

and im not hattin on you Muscleone just checkin the facts

----------


## Odin

> i want to hear what his cycles looked like,thats all im interested in,i could care less about all the other nonsense,he's got an angle to make money..good for him.so he's bad mouthing steroids .do you really think there will be a change in the law during our lifetime..i dont.so dont knock him for trying to capitalize on it.lets get what info we can use out of him and then wish him luck in his endevors.
> 
> give up the cycles bro..more important the doses


lmao DEVLDOG we all know where your coming from. Yeah I want to see it too. I wonder how many students in is class do cocain, crack, or meth and will not here as much bad about that. Might sound stupid but I would rather see people in general who are on gear. They look good and its fun seeing big weight go up. All I see these days are little punks on meth and fat corn feed woman. As far as i'm concerned they could pack em' into rail car's for concentration camp's, no lose to anyone! My point at least the people in the 80's who did lots of gear are not in homeless shelters are living off the goverment. I went to the mall the other day and could not even take how horriable people look today. Rec. drugs are the issue not steroids.

----------


## bigrthanu

I Agree with the heart arrhythmia, same thing happened to me on my first cycle. Very disturbing fluctuation in heart rate and rythym. Even with a low doseage of 300mgs a week. they did go away a few weeks after cycle tho

----------


## SVC

This will be my final post and /or response for a while. I have to get some work done so I can save up my next joint replacement  :Smilie: 

THE FACTS
1) I was never a PRO bodybuilder. I never earned my pro card because I never entered a pro qualifier due to the injuries which later caused me to pull the rip card and retire from competition.
2) It was never my intention to "judge" or "bash" current steroid users in the video. I was speaking to high school kids and I was trying to convey how stupid "I" was for acting the way I did when "I" was on and how crazy "some" are today. 
3) Many of the greatest athletes of all time had incredible drive to be the best and later drove themselves into ground. Athletes like Dorian Yates (bi & tri tear), Bo Jackson (hip replacement), Derek Sanderson (both hips replaced).
4) IF THE SUPPLEMENTS THAT ARE AVAILABLE TODAY WERE AVAILABLE BACK IN 1983 I NEVER WOULD HAVE TAKEN STEROIDS .
5) WHEN YOU TAKE STEROIDS YOU ARE ALTERING YOUR BODY CHEMISTRY, THINGS "CAN" HAPPEN WHEN YOU DO SO. 
6) When I took 13 different things at once, it was for 6 weeks only. (very small amounts) Every other cycle consisted of 1 androgen, and 2 anabolics.
7) I ONLY DID THE 200LBS ON THE HELMET EXERCISE FOR 4 WEEKS, THEN I REALIZED IF I MAKE MY NECK BIGGER, MY SHOULDERS WILL LOOK NARROWER.

8) ASK YOURSELF, WHY AM I TAKING JUICE? AM I GOING TO BE A PRO ATHLETE? AM I GOING TO EARN A LIVING FROM IT? IS IT WORTH THE RISK?

BE ANALITICAL, ANALIZE EVERYTHING BEFORE JUMPING INTO "ANYTHING" WITH BOTH FEET.

THINGS THAT MEAN THE WORLD TO YOU TODAY (i.e. Being Jacked) MAY MEAN NOTHING TO YOU TOMORROW... ESPECIALLY IF YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'RE 80 WHEN YOU'RE 40...

----------


## Kato

SVC, bro good luck! i have had shoulder surgery and my shoulder is crap!

I think ur a warrior to go thru 2 hip replacements and a shoulder replacement(if this is true) and come out lookin the way you do! 

shake these haters off bro and good luck!

----------


## Ben Lifton

Propaganda is a powerful tool.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  ...sorry you became a statistic. 
Good Luck and Stay Healthy! 

_-there was no one hurt or flamed in this thread-_

----------


## BigMike J

good luck

----------


## KGBnine

> This will be my final post and /or response for a while. I have to get some work done so I can save up my next joint replacement 
> 
> THE FACTS
> 1) I was never a PRO bodybuilder. I never earned my pro card because I never entered a pro qualifier due to the injuries which later caused me to pull the rip card and retire from competition.
> 2) It was never my intention to "judge" or "bash" current steroid users in the video. I was speaking to high school kids and I was trying to convey how stupid "I" was for acting the way I did when "I" was on and how crazy "some" are today. 
> 3) Many of the greatest athletes of all time had incredible drive to be the best and later drove themselves into ground. Athletes like Dorian Yates (bi & tri tear), Bo Jackson (hip replacement), Derek Sanderson (both hips replaced).
> 4) IF THE SUPPLEMENTS THAT ARE AVAILABLE TODAY WERE AVAILABLE BACK IN 1983 I NEVER WOULD HAVE TAKEN STEROIDS .
> 5) WHEN YOU TAKE STEROIDS YOU ARE ALTERING YOUR BODY CHEMISTRY, THINGS "CAN" HAPPEN WHEN YOU DO SO. 
> 6) When I took 13 different things at once, it was for 6 weeks only. (very small amounts) Every other cycle consisted of 1 androgen, and 2 anabolics.
> ...


Good advice. Best of luck and health to you.

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> 8) ASK YOURSELF, WHY AM I TAKING JUICE? AM I GOING TO BE A PRO ATHLETE? AM I GOING TO EARN A LIVING FROM IT? IS IT WORTH THE RISK?


Then why did you do AS? You never competed professionally. You weren't a pro. You just stated so.

Get off your soapbox.

Hypocrite.

----------


## DEVLDOG

doses bro..doses...give em up  :Don't know:

----------


## BigMike J

> Then why did you do AS? You never competed professionally. You weren't a pro. You just stated so.
> 
> Get off your soapbox.
> 
> Hypocrite.


1) I was never a PRO bodybuilder. I never earned my pro card because I never entered a pro qualifier due to the injuries which later caused me to pull the rip card and retire from competition.

----------


## dr.shred

> This will be my final post and /or response for a while. I have to get some work done so I can save up my next joint replacement 
> 
> THE FACTS
> 1) I was never a PRO bodybuilder. I never earned my pro card because I never entered a pro qualifier due to the injuries which later caused me to pull the rip card and retire from competition.
> 2) It was never my intention to "judge" or "bash" current steroid users in the video. I was speaking to high school kids and I was trying to convey how stupid "I" was for acting the way I did when "I" was on and how crazy "some" are today. 
> 3) Many of the greatest athletes of all time had incredible drive to be the best and later drove themselves into ground. Athletes like Dorian Yates (bi & tri tear), Bo Jackson (hip replacement), Derek Sanderson (both hips replaced).
> 4) IF THE SUPPLEMENTS THAT ARE AVAILABLE TODAY WERE AVAILABLE BACK IN 1983 I NEVER WOULD HAVE TAKEN STEROIDS .
> 5) WHEN YOU TAKE STEROIDS YOU ARE ALTERING YOUR BODY CHEMISTRY, THINGS "CAN" HAPPEN WHEN YOU DO SO. 
> 6) When I took 13 different things at once, it was for 6 weeks only. (very small amounts) Every other cycle consisted of 1 androgen, and 2 anabolics.
> ...


The video was educational although it only portray's the negative sides of AS when they are abused. Unfornately, it looks like you had the genetics to achieve your goals, but over a longer period of time without juice. I enjoyed the video and wish you the best of luck with whatever you do. 

-SHRED

----------


## LittleNate

> The darkside is truly alcohol, rec.drugs, and cigarettes. Kids get those on any corner, anytime.



well said

----------


## BigMike J

> i don't think we're going to learn anything useful from this guy, except "what not to do". his routines seem to be based on the gym superstitions of 15 years ago, which are even stupider than the gym superstitions today.
> 
> he states his "13 injectable" cycle was based on "every different AS using a differnent metabolic pathway" and then he began to describe a ridiculous cycle of garbage (mixing cutters with bulkers etc.). he claims his total dosage was actually rather low, so this probably wasn't the stupidest thing he did.
> 
> listen to his "rehab therapy" description b4 you decide to listen to anything he says. he was his own worst enemy.
> 
> that being said, i wouldn't wish what happened to him on my worst enemy. get well, i hope your health recovers soon..



He was obviously doing something right.. you don't get a body like that by accident.

----------


## BigMike J

Ahh. i just hit 3000  :Big Grin:

----------


## DEVLDOG

> i don't think we're going to learn anything useful from this guy, except "what not to do". his routines seem to be based on the gym superstitions of 15 years ago, which are even stupider than the gym superstitions .


well bro,pictures dont lie and if that were him in the picture,then he did something right.i dare anybody to compare their pic to his and then tell me he didnt do something right.maybe the old school way wasnt so bad after all.

think about it.guys would train 2-3 hrs straight back in the day.pros today still do this.some 2x each day...these 45min workouts people preach are just excuses if you ask me.sheer laziness

----------


## SVC

> Then why did you do AS? You never competed professionally. You weren't a pro. You just stated so.
> 
> Get off your soapbox.
> 
> Hypocrite.


Everytime I think I'm out, they pull me back in  :Smilie: 

When did I ever say I was a pro? I planned on becoming a pro and I believe I could have if I didn't destroy myself. Does everyone on this forum compete? Do they have the potential to become a pro? Structure, genetics... If juice is the only factor that determines whether or not someone becomes a pro there would be around a million guys that look like Arnold did in 74.

----------


## SVC

> well said


No doubt that is true as well. 

The fact that 500,000 people die of lung cancer every year and it's legal blows my mind!!! The government sold it's soul to the tobacco industry...

----------


## SVC

> The video was educational although it only portray's the negative sides of AS when they are abused. Unfornately, it looks like you had the genetics to achieve your goals, but over a longer period of time without juice. I enjoyed the video and wish you the best of luck with whatever you do. 
> 
> -SHRED


Thanks Shred. You're shredded to the bone!

----------


## SVC

> SVC, bro good luck! i have had shoulder surgery and my shoulder is crap!
> 
> I think ur a warrior to go thru 2 hip replacements and a shoulder replacement(if this is true) and come out lookin the way you do! 
> 
> shake these haters off bro and good luck!



Yes, unfortunately everything I've stated is true! Thanks for the props! Your cartoon kicks ass!

Did you have rotator cuff surgery or a replacement?

----------


## SVC

> Good advice. Best of luck and health to you.


Thanks aXe!

----------


## SVC

> First of all your video was very educational and I am sorry for what has happened to your health. There are a lot of closed minded and cold people in this world as you have seen on this forum. Hopefully you ignore negativity. I don't critisize or judge anything you have done concerning your use of steroids or your training. I'm 41 years old and I too have had injuries from the use of steroids over the years although not nearly as bad as yours. When you were in your prime using steroids everything back then was more is better like you said. Everybody trained each body part twice a week several hours a day. Yes, you went to extremes with your training but anybody that wants to be his best usually does. Young people today have more resources to do research on steroids. Something we didn't have in our 20's. Hopefully with your video and seminars you can make young people aware of the mistakes you made and they can learn from them. Hopefully something good can come from your misfortune. I respect your courage and honesty and wish you the best. 
> 
> 
> Thanks Muscleone, I appreciate that! well said!
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE=SVC]My heart rate has never been the same since the first time I used steroids. I now have arrhythmia which is sporadic (heart races then slows down) and my resting pulse is now 85, prior to cycling it was 60. 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

----------


## bignatt

> well bro,pictures dont lie and if that were him in the picture,then he did something right.i dare anybody to compare their pic to his and then tell me he didnt do something right.maybe the old school way wasnt so bad after all.
> 
> think about it.guys would train 2-3 hrs straight back in the day.pros today still do this.some 2x each day...these 45min workouts people preach are just excuses if you ask me.sheer laziness


i totally agree with you man i think overtraining is a crock of shlt no such thing in my book

----------


## Duma

great thread  :Smilie: -

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> a guy with great genetics who is obviously willing to take far greater risks with his health than i am can look great on almost any program. listening to his "200lb" neck press stories makes me dis-inclined to hire him as my personal trainer.


I totally agree with you. How true huh!?

----------


## BajanBastard

For the record Flex Wheelers kidney problems are GENETIC so don't come blaming AAS for that. Why I take steriods and not planning to compete? I want to be the best, I want small, weak, fat asses look at me with envy, I want chicks to get wet just looking at me on the beach, a want to turn heads. Simple really.

I wish you all the best in the future.

----------


## Decakur

> For the record Flex Wheelers kidney problems are GENETIC so don't come blaming AAS for that. Why I take steriods and not planning to compete? I want to be the best, I want small, weak, fat asses look at me with envy, I want chicks to get wet just looking at me on the beach, a want to turn heads. Simple really.
> 
> I wish you all the best in the future.


  :Afro:  **** yeah man..

----------


## SVC

> I totally agree with you. How true huh!?


I'm not the same guy I was 20 years ago... I've learned from my mistakes.

Maybe some of you wouldn't want to hire me but many of the top athletes in the world do... 

Let's see if you guys can grasp this ONCE & FOR ALL...

I DID THE NECK RAISES WITH 200 LBS FOR 4 WEEKS ONLY. DID THE NECK RAISES SCREW UP MY HIPS, SHOULDER, & BACK?

IF I WASN'T ON JUICE I WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO BENCH 500LBS & SQUAT 700 LBS FOR REPS.

----------


## SVC

> For the record Flex Wheelers kidney problems are GENETIC so don't come blaming AAS for that. Why I take steriods and not planning to compete? I want to be the best, I want small, weak, fat asses look at me with envy, I want chicks to get wet just looking at me on the beach, a want to turn heads. Simple really.
> 
> I wish you all the best in the future.



If you land one of those chicks on the beach... will you be able to stand at attention or will you be packing a wet noodle & 2 raisons?

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> If you land one of those chicks on the beach... will you be able to stand at attention or will you be packing a wet noodle & 2 raisons?


Ya your nuts will shrink...but they come back after PCT. If we need a little help getting it up...there's cialis or viagra.

----------


## SVC

> Ya your nuts will shrink...but they come back after PCT. If we need a little help getting it up...there's cialis or viagra.


Oh, so it's OK to take more stuff like Viagra at $10 a tab so you can get it up? What would an alien from another planet think about the way some humans reason???

----------


## Carlos_E

> If you land one of those chicks on the beach... will you be able to stand at attention or will you be packing a wet noodle & 2 raisons?


Oh come off it. Now you sound like the rest of the sheep. I guess you haven't heard of proper PCT to get your natural test levels going? Haven't heard of HCG to keep your testicles from shrinking? You're just using common steroid scare tactics. Try again!!!

----------


## Carlos_E

> What would an alien from another planet think about the way some humans reason???


They would think you're silly and you REALLY don't know as much about AS as you think you do. That could explain why you had such a bad experience with it. It sounds like you know just as little now as you knew back then.

----------


## SVC

> They would think you're silly and you REALLY don't know as much about AS as you think you do. That could explain why you had such a bad experience with it. It sounds like you know just as little now as you knew back then.



I guess I'm just not as dialed in as you are Carlos. Who are you? What have you ever accomplished? Just curious???

----------


## Decakur

> I guess I'm just not as dialed in as you are Carlos. Who are you? What have you ever accomplished? Just curious???


I guess first and second place in a Bodybuilding contest..

----------


## DEVLDOG

HERES A PM THE DUDE SENT ME BELOW

THE "13" CYCLE I DID BACK IN 1985 FOR 6 WEEKS

1) 1cc test enanthate 
2) 1 cc winstrol v per week
3) 1/2 cc deca (100 mg)
4) 1 cc equipoise 
5) 4 (2.5) anavar 
6) 1 cc bolasterone
7) 1 cc finaject
8) 1 clomid
9) 1 cc hcg 
10) 2iu crescormin (5 on 1 off)
11) 1 (10mg) nolva
12) 3 triacana 
13) 1 cc primo depot

I never took recreational drugs. When I stated that I took pain killers
to get through some workouts I was referring to over the counter
anti-inflammatories (i.e. ADVIL). 

I cycled 6 weeks on 6 weeks off then when the competition season was
over I went totally off from June to January to completely clean out my
receptor sites.

This is the last time I'm responding to you or any other message board
members so savor the flavor. Post my response if you'd like.

Good luck in the future!

TG

----------


## Carlos_E

> I guess I'm just not as dialed in as you are Carlos. Who are you? What have you ever accomplished? Just curious???


I just started competing. I qualified for nationals at my first show. Nothing to brag about

...yet.

I'm just getting started.

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> I'm not the same guy I was 20 years ago... I've learned from my mistakes.
> 
> Maybe some of you wouldn't want to hire me but many of the top athletes in the world do... 
> 
> Let's see if you guys can grasp this ONCE & FOR ALL...
> 
> I DID THE NECK RAISES WITH 200 LBS FOR 4 WEEKS ONLY. DID THE NECK RAISES SCREW UP MY HIPS, SHOULDER, & BACK?
> 
> IF I WASN'T ON JUICE I WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO BENCH 500LBS & SQUAT 700 LBS FOR REPS.


Point and counter point. This is getting stale. We all have differences of opinions and it's going in circles.

It was all choices my friend. Choices. So blame AS if you want to. The fact still remains that your "creative" workouts was your choice. You went extreme and it back fired. I'm sorry your body gave out on you. Your sides are more correlated to extreme workouts versus the actual use of AS. Yes the two (AS and heavier workouts) would seem to be inclusive...the truth is they are not. If you didn't try to push the envelope with your weight routine...would this have happened? Probably not. It seems like your extreme personality was the culprit...not AS. BTW stop showing pro bb'ers who are hurt. We all know they are excessive in their use and none of us do 1/4 of the gear they do. It's not comparing apples to apples.

Regardless, you did AS for your reasons...others do it for their own. The preaching has to stop. Not everyone taking AS is going to get bad results. AS use has been going on for years...please do not apply your hardships against the general population of AS users. Some may get sides...some may not. Taking AS has nothing to do with being a pro or making money from it. By your measure I cannot drive a Porsche 911GT2 because I'm not a race car driver. Same idea. It is nonsensical. It's all about you using your hardships for your own gain. Plain and simple.

It's been "fun" retorting back and forth...but I find this exhausting. Ciao.

 :Cheers:

----------


## Carlos_E

> HERES A PM THE DUDE SENT ME BELOW
> 
> THE "13" CYCLE I DID BACK IN 1985 FOR 6 WEEKS
> 
> 1) 1cc test enanthate 
> 2) 1 cc winstrol v per week
> 3) 1/2 cc deca (100 mg)
> 4) 1 cc equipoise 
> 5) 4 (2.5) anavar 
> ...


With that cycle I can't tell what he was trying to achieve. Can't tell if he's cutting or bulking??? To many different ester with to many different effects on the body. The more you add to a cycle the more chances there are for side effects. With so many esters, how can you tell which are giving you sides and how to treat it.

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> I just started competing. I qualified for nationals at my first show. Nothing to brag about
> 
> ...yet.
> 
> I'm just getting started.


FVCKING OWNED!!!!

Haha good job bro!!!

----------


## SVC

> I guess first and second place in a Bodybuilding contest..


Well, that's worth the risk  :Smilie:  (that's a joke son) Which contests? Are you good enough to turn pro in the future? Do you have the structure, the genetics, the look...? If you do turn pro will you be able to earn a living at it? There's many, many pros that can't even earn a living at it.

There are so many varibles involved in bodybuilding... I'm sure you've seen or known guys that take tons of "stuff" and gain almost nothing and look almost exactly the same...

Not trying to be a cube smasher or a preacher... just urging everyone to look before they leap...

----------


## *Narkissos*

*Narkissos shakes his head*

----------


## inevitable

i would love to smack him.... pure stupidity

----------


## SVC

> Point and counter point. This is getting stale. We all have differences of opinions and it's going in circles.
> 
> It was all choices my friend. Choices. So blame AS if you want to. The fact still remains that your "creative" workouts was your choice. You went extreme and it back fired. I'm sorry your body gave out on you. Your sides are more correlated to extreme workouts versus the actual use of AS. Yes the two (AS and heavier workouts) would seem to be inclusive...the truth is they are not. If you didn't try to push the envelope with your weight routine...would this have happened? Probably not. It seems like your extreme personality was the culprit...not AS. BTW stop showing pro bb'ers who are hurt. We all know they are excessive in their use and none of us do 1/4 of the gear they do. It's not comparing apples to apples.
> 
> Regardless, you did AS for your reasons...others do it for their own. The preaching has to stop. Not everyone taking AS is going to get bad results. AS use has been going on for years...please do not apply your hardships against the general population of AS users. Some may get sides...some may not. Taking AS has nothing to do with being a pro or making money from it. By your measure I cannot drive a Porsche 911GT2 because I'm not a race car driver. Same idea. It is nonsensical. It's all about you using your hardships for your own gain. Plain and simple.
> 
> It's been "fun" retorting back and forth...but I find this exhausting. Ciao.



Touche MBH! You do make some valid points. Remember I'm saying and I've always said this is what happened to "me" and this "could" happen to you. Some people can smoke cigarettes their entire life and not develop lung cancer and some do. It's the same with juice. I'm not saying everyone will have problems but some will...

Good luck bro!

----------


## SVC

> i would love to smack him.... pure stupidity


I guess that's inevitable  :Smilie:

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> i would love to smack him.... pure stupidity


Grow up.

----------


## SVC

> *Narkissos shakes his head*


Are you on juice? What are you a buck & change, keep the change?

----------


## inevitable

its not even worth fightin over

----------


## inevitable

> Grow up.


 how so...

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> Touche MBH! You do make some valid points. Remember I'm saying and I've always said this is what happened to "me" and this "could" happen to you. Some people can smoke cigarettes their entire life and not develop lung cancer and some do. It's the same with juice. I'm not saying everyone will have problems but some will...
> 
> Good luck bro!


Good luck to you too bro.

Happy Holidays!

----------


## Carlos_E

> Well, that's worth the risk  (that's a joke son) Which contests? Are you good enough to turn pro in the future? Do you have the structure, the genetics, the look...? If you do turn pro will you be able to earn a living at it? There's many, many pros that can't even earn a living at it.
> 
> There are so many varibles involved in bodybuilding... I'm sure you've seen or known guys that take tons of "stuff" and gain almost nothing and look almost exactly the same...
> 
> Not trying to be a cube smasher or a preacher... just urging everyone to look before they leap...


I'm an Engineer. I don't have to make money from bodybuilding because I have a real job. I train and compete because of my love for the sport. Not because I want to make money doing it. As far as taking "tons of stuff" you got the wrong guy. I can list on one hand what "stuff" I've taken.

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> how so...


You would want to hit him? Please be an adult. We all have differences of opinions but try and show some tolerance. There is no need for violent beavior.

 :Cheers:

----------


## Carlos_E

> Are you on juice? What are you a buck & change, keep the change?


Actually he's 5'6" 200 pounds and a Caribbean title holder. Wow, you have a knack for making friends. *Big thumbs up!*

----------


## LACBodybuilder

> IF I WASN'T ON JUICE I WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO BENCH 500LBS & SQUAT 700 LBS FOR REPS.


Good for you bro. Have you ever heard of pre-exhausting the muscle. See many bodybuilders do this so they dont have to deal with such heavy weight. And if your trying to scare people off of steroids this probably isnt the way to go. I know a lot of people who would love to bench 500 and squat 700. They would just be smarter about it and warm-up properly. Sure the weight you are doing is excessive, but you went about it the wrong way. And you cant blame the AS on injuring you because it didnt make you put the weight on the bar, that was you. Now I am truly sorry for what happen to you, but in all honesty you brought it on yourself. Steroids are body altering, not mind. They didnt make you squat 700, bench 500, or take 13 AS at once, that was you. And I dont think you will find many even professional bodybuilders who can tell you they are doing 13 different compounds. Thats a waste of good AAS in my opinion.

----------


## SVC

> i would love to smack him.... pure stupidity


See "inevitable" stating that you'd love to smack me is called "assault" (threatening to hit someone) "assault & battery" (is actually hitting someone.)

How would you like it if I had you thrown in the slammer where they'd feed you a coco puff a day? If you're too stupid to debate without threats then don't join in at all.

----------


## Odin

> I just started competing. I qualified for nationals at my first show. Nothing to brag about
> 
> ...yet.
> 
> I'm just getting started.


Yeah you qualified for national's and if i remember right you never even connected on being your top either cause you said you look much bigger and fuller a week afterwards. Add another 15 pounds of lean mass and you'll be looking like Dexter Jackson in his early years.  :Strong Smiley:

----------


## LACBodybuilder

> Are you on juice? What are you a buck & change, keep the change?


Hahahahahaha, what a funny comment  :Frown:  . I guess Narkissos' problem is he isnt doing 300 different compounds. thats how you pack on the muscle bro. Just some advice that I got from this really smart healthy guy who was a bodybuilder (supposibly) back in the 80's.

----------


## Carlos_E

> Touche MBH! You do make some valid points. Remember I'm saying and I've always said this is what happened to "me" and this "could" happen to you. Some people can smoke cigarettes their entire life and not develop lung cancer and some do. It's the same with juice. I'm not saying everyone will have problems but some will...
> 
> Good luck bro!


A better example would be some people can smoke 1 cigarette a day and not get lung cancer. While people who smoke 20 packs a day are at a higher risk and most likely will get lung cancer. If you do anything to an extreme as you did with AS, you will hurt your body.

----------


## LACBodybuilder

> See "inevitable" stating that you'd love to smack me is called "assault" (threatening to hit someone) "assault & battery" (is actually hitting someone.)
> 
> How would you like it if I had you thrown in the slammer where they'd feed you a coco puff a day? If you're too stupid to debate without threats then don't join in at all.


Hey man, heres you chance to discuss the dangers of "roid rage " for all these people on AAS. This is fun, and just so easy.

----------


## inevitable

> See "inevitable" stating that you'd love to smack me is called "assault" (threatening to hit someone) "assault & battery" (is actually hitting someone.)
> 
> How would you like it if I had you thrown in the slammer where they'd feed you a coco puff a day? If you're too stupid to debate without threats then don't join in at all.


 lol ok dad.... throw me in jail... i'd make it so public that i would get paid to go on talk-shows... only making me more money.

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> See "inevitable" stating that you'd love to smack me is called "assault" (threatening to hit someone) "assault & battery" (is actually hitting someone.)
> 
> How would you like it if I had you thrown in the slammer where they'd feed you a coco puff a day? If you're too stupid to debate without threats then don't join in at all.


Sorry about that. Sometimes we have little problems like this on our board. 

Let's all be mature guys. Keep it civil.

I'm sure 'inevitable' will behave going forward. Right!?

----------


## inevitable

> Sorry about that. Sometimes we have little problems like this on our board.
> 
> I'm sure 'inevitable' will behave going forward. Right!?


 bro im not tryin to knock on him.. he didn't have ne positive remarks about AS.. and he is knowledgable about it. mean most of the time that people knock on AS, they couldn't tell u the difference between dbols and winny u kno. 
and rumor has it..he is selling his own products and wat not? is that tru?

----------


## LACBodybuilder

> bro im not tryin to knock on him.. he didn't have ne positive remarks about AS.. and he is knowledgable about it. mean most of the time that people knock on AS, they couldn't tell u the difference between dbols and winny u kno. 
> and rumor has it..he is selling his own products and wat not? is that tru?


Yes, his own line of steroid alternative natural supplements. you know, the same sh!t they sell at gnc, but with his face on it. Where do I sign up...

----------


## BajanBastard

> Are you on juice? What are you a buck & change, keep the change?


No he is not on juice both he and I have one cycle under our belts. Narkissos competes locally and internationally and he sure as will last longer than you have. The point is we know how to use drugs for maximum benefit with little sides you on the other hand..........................

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> bro im not tryin to knock on him.. he didn't have ne positive remarks about AS.. and he is knowledgable about it. mean most of the time that people knock on AS, they couldn't tell u the difference between dbols and winny u kno. 
> and rumor has it..he is selling his own products and wat not? is that tru?


I'm just saying...keep it civil. There was no need for e-violence.  :Smilie:

----------


## SVC

> Actually he's 5'6" 200 pounds and a Caribbean title holder. Wow, you have a knack for making friends. *Big thumbs up!*


He's 5'6" 200 in the back lat spread shot? Doesn't look it...

----------


## inevitable

> Yes, his own line of steroid alternative natural supplements. you know, the same sh!t they sell at gnc, but with his face on it. Where do I sign up...


 ahahah go figure.....

MBH - im chill now, must have been the test. i just got a lil heated from watchin that vid.

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> ahahah go figure.....
> 
> MBH - im chill now, must have been the test. i just got a lil heated from watchin that vid.


It's a bit heated in here and some of the posts show it (including some of mine)...but it was the violence that's a no-no (IMHO).

Thanks for understanding bro.  :Thumps Up:

----------


## SVC

> Yes, his own line of steroid alternative natural supplements. you know, the same sh!t they sell at gnc, but with his face on it. Where do I sign up...


No, I don't have my own line of supplements that I'm selling. Do you see any for sale on SteroidsViciousCycles.com ? 

It's fun answering the questions 47 times...

----------


## LACBodybuilder

> He's 5'6" 200 in the back lat spread shot? Doesn't look it...


Are you a bodybuilding judge now. The point of this thread is not how he looks in his lat spread. As a matter of fact, I completely forgot what the point of this thread was.

----------


## SVC

> Hey man, heres you chance to discuss the dangers of "roid rage" for all these people on AAS. This is fun, and just so easy.


I was thinking the same thing...

----------


## inevitable

SVC answer me this.... if ur hating AS then y are u posting on this board?

----------


## SVC

> A better example would be some people can smoke 1 cigarette a day and not get lung cancer. While people who smoke 20 packs a day are at a higher risk and most likely will get lung cancer. If you do anything to an extreme as you did with AS, you will hurt your body.


Touche Carlos. I believe I mentioned the same thing in the video clip. (i.e. aspirin, if you have a headache do you take 2 aspirin or 150?...)

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

I think SVC has learned that AR.com is like heroin...just can't get away from it. :Big Grin:  The time I have spent on here...I could have had the deck in my backyard completed. Haha.

It's an awesome board Todd. I would truly hope that you can now respect the amount of info on here...and possibly let people who are determined to use AS know about AR and its awesome members. I mean if they have their mind set and you cannot change it...why not direct them to the helping hand of AR. I know it's against your beliefs...but IMHO turning your back to them could potentially cause more harm than good.

 :Cheers:

----------


## inevitable

> I think SVC has learned that AR.com is like heroin...just can't get away from it. The time I have spent on here...I could have had the deck in my backyard completed. Haha.
> 
> It's an awesome board Todd. I would truly hope that you can now respect the amount of info on here...and possibly let people who are determined to use AS know about AR and its awesome members. I mean if they have their mind set and you cannot change it...why not direct them to the helping hand of AR. I know it's against your beliefs...but IMHO turning your back to them could potentially cause more harm than good.
> 
> 
> 
> Just a thought.



Agreed.

----------


## SVC

> Are you a bodybuilding judge now. The point of this thread is not how he looks in his lat spread. As a matter of fact, I completely forgot what the point of this thread was.


Yes, I actually am a bodybuilding judge now and have been for a long time. The point was; he is on juice and he doesn't "look" like he's on juice. Judging by the back lat spread shot I would think he weighs around 140.

----------


## Decakur

guys!! keep the voice down.. dont talk about smash him.
"SVC" is a nice guy, and we all have our
own opinions, but i do think MBH have a point here.

----------


## BajanBastard

I think him coming here to post his point was a stand-up thing to do. But now he's insulting AR members? I think you have things a little twisted you don't look like the way you used to so why insult?

----------


## inevitable

> guys!! keep the voice down.. dont talk about smash him.
> "SVC" is a nice guy, and we all have our
> own opinions, but i do think MBH have a point here.


 ahah bro u started it by posting that link... ahaha and yes MBH does have a great idea

----------


## Decakur

> ahah bro u started it by posting that link... ahaha and yes MBH does have a great idea


and so? MBH has a point here, yes.

----------


## BajanBastard

> Yes, I actually am a bodybuilding judge now and have been for a long time. The point was; he is on juice and he doesn't "look" like he's on juice. Judging by the back lat spread shot I would think he weighs around 140.


 These are his pics. Natty, 1 cycle. I'm sure you could do the same  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=136648

----------


## SVC

> Agreed.


If someone is going to use juice no matter what:

1) take Milk Thistle (silymarin) all the way through your cycle (regenerates your liver).
2) take HCG all the way through your cycle.
3) 20 mgs of Nolva per day - 10mg then 10mg
4) get off between cycles to allow your body to normalize itself and clean out your receptor sites.
5) Drink tons of distilled water
6) Avoid toxic orals like A50, Halo, & D-bol (orals are broken down immediately - inj's are broken down more slowly - less strain on your liver - and much more utilization
7) Take 1 androgen & 2 anabolics. Start with the androgen and then add the anabolics one at a time weeks later
8) More isn't better, you'll become a toxic waste dump
9) train each body part once a week
10) train abs & calves every day (all red muscle fiber) at the end of your workout

----------


## Decakur

bro why take hcg every day through the whole cycle?
20mg sounds alot, 10mg sounds more ok..

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> If someone is going to use juice no matter what:
> 
> 1) take Milk Thistle (silymarin) all the way through your cycle (regenerates your liver).
> 2) take HCG all the way through your cycle.
> 3) 20 mgs of Nolva per day - 10mg then 10mg
> 4) get off between cycles to allow your body to normalize itself and clean out your receptor sites.
> 5) Drink tons of distilled water
> 6) Avoid toxic orals like A50, Halo, & D-bol (orals are broken down immediately - inj's are broken down more slowly - less strain on your liver - and much more utilization
> 7) Take 1 androgen & 2 anabolics. Start with the androgen and then add the anabolics one at a time weeks later
> ...


I would still hope you can respect this board enough to pass it along if someone is determind to use AS. Please help them either way they go k.

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> If someone is going to use juice no matter what:
> 
> 1) take Milk Thistle (silymarin) all the way through your cycle (regenerates your liver).
> 2) take HCG all the way through your cycle.
> 3) 20 mgs of Nolva per day - 10mg then 10mg
> 4) get off between cycles to allow your body to normalize itself and clean out your receptor sites.
> 5) Drink tons of distilled water
> 6) Avoid toxic orals like A50, Halo, & D-bol (orals are broken down immediately - inj's are broken down more slowly - less strain on your liver - and much more utilization
> 7) Take 1 androgen & 2 anabolics. Start with the androgen and then add the anabolics one at a time weeks later
> ...


I can tell you right now...you're going to get picked apart on some of these (2,3,5,6,7)

----------


## SVC

> I can tell you right now...you're going to get picked apart on some of these (2,3,5,6,7)


Please explain...

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> Please explain...


2. HCG shouldn't be used until mid to end of cycle where atrophy appears.
3. Ndex is an individual thing. Some people like runing arimidex . Some people don't need 20mg ED.
5. Distilled water can take minerals out of your body.
6. Avoid versus moderation. Orals are okay if taken in moderation.
7. Too old school.

----------


## SVC

> bro why take hcg every day through the whole cycle?
> 20mg sounds alot, 10mg sounds more ok..


Because then your natural test never shuts down and the nolva prevents aromatization, the half life of nolva is extremely short, if you take 10, take it mid day.

----------


## inevitable

> Please explain...


 opinions.... 

like i don't agree with taking hcg everday of my cycle.. i take it the last 5 weeks.

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> and the nolva prevents aromatization,


No it does not. Nolva stops estrogen from binding to the breast receptors. Arimidex stop aromatization.

----------


## Decakur

i still can not figure out why a man should take hcg ED.
it ****ing gives you BT if your unlucky..

----------


## SVC

> 2. HCG shouldn't be used until mid to end of cycle where atrophy appears.
> 3. Ndex is an individual thing. Some people like runing arimidex . Some people don't need 20mg ED.
> 5. Distilled water can take minerals out of your body.
> 6. Avoid versus moderation. Orals are okay if taken in moderation.
> 7. Too old school.


If you don't take HCG, once you body spots any extra test in stops making it. If you take HCG it never stops making it. 

Arimidex does the same

That is the oldest falicy in the world. Distilled water leaches out INORGANIC MINERALS & METALS not "ORGANIC MINERALS" distilled water is the cleanest, purest water you can drink. Trust me, research it.

TOXIC ORALS make many, many people sick. They make them nausious so they're unable too eat enough to grow. They also make your SGOTs shoot to the moon. I'M REALLY SURPRISED YOU THINK THEY'RE OK

----------


## *Narkissos*

> He's 5'6" 200 in the back lat spread shot? Doesn't look it...


Just because...

Here's a recent pic

1month after my last contest



I haven't jumped down your throat for your stupidity...if that makes me dime and change..so be it

BTW i'm 22... Conversationally speaking, i don't think you've yet to show maturity expected of your years for me to have commented in this thread previously.Still..your 'dime and change' jab did rile me vaguely.

So i'll comment.I find you..your stupidity..your comments...your very being here offensive... to any right-thinking bodybuilding enthusiast.

~Narkissos

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> If you don't take HCG , once you body spots any extra test in stops making it. If you take HCG it never stops making it. 
> 
> Arimidex does the same
> 
> That is the oldest falicy in the world. Distilled water leaches out INORGANIC MINERALS & METALS not "ORGANIC MINERALS" distilled water is the cleanest, purest water you can drink. Trust me, research it.
> 
> TOXIC ORALS make many, many people sick. They make them nausious so they're unable too eat enough to grow. They also make your SGOTs shoot to the moon. I'M REALLY SURPRISED YOU THINK THEY'RE OK


We're going to have to agree to disagree then.

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> Are you on juice? What are you a buck & change, keep the change?


Proves my hypocrite comment.

http://forums.steroid.com/showpost.p...4&postcount=45

----------


## billy_ba

minerals=inorganic material.

I have a feeling this is going to get ugly, SVC dosent seem to know half of what he preeches.




> That is the oldest falicy in the world. Distilled water leaches out INORGANIC MINERALS & METALS not "ORGANIC MINERALS" distilled water is the cleanest, purest water you can drink. Trust me, research it.

----------


## SVC

> Just because...
> 
> Here's a recent pic
> 
> 1month after my last contest
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't jumped down your throat for your stupidity...if that makes me dime and change..so be it
> ...



I was just joshing bro. I hope I didn't hurt your feeling too much... So just so we're clear, you can bust my cubes 6 ways to Sunday, but because I thought you didn't look like you were on juice in that first back lat spread shot you're pissed. You've got some thin skin bro (pun intended  :Smilie:  )

----------


## SVC

> minerals=inorganic material.
> 
> I have a feeling this is going to get ugly, SVC dosent seem to know half of what he preeches.


Looks like Billy Ba can't spell either...

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> minerals=inorganic material.
> 
> I have a feeling this is going to get ugly, SVC dosent seem to know half of what he preeches.


You mean like arimidex making your body produce test?




> If you don't take HCG , once you body spots any extra test in stops making it. If you take HCG it never stops making it. 
> 
> Arimidex does the same

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> Looks like Billy Ba can't spell either...


So now we're getting defensive and picking on the little things?

----------


## Decakur

> If you don't take HCG, once you body spots any extra test in stops making it. If you take HCG it never stops making it.


and thats the truth?!? anybody?

SVC did you ever have any problems with your dick or balls?

----------


## *Narkissos*

> Judging by the back lat spread shot I would think he weighs around 140.


The avator in question is a pic of me competing as a Junior...2 years ago

Anyhow...before this response de-generates into a personal attack as yours has...i'll end it

----------


## billy_ba

Dude I have 3 years of college chemistry under my belt including organic chem 1 and 2 so Trust me I can spell. I made a mistake typing fast, big f'ing deal. Your just mad because everyone here is proving your bs to be exactly what it is.....B.S

maybe you should actually research what you are talking about because you look like an idiot when all of us keep proving you wrong. Some of us are actually smart and maybe if you took the time to educate yourself, you wouldnt have had such a bad experience being addicted to steroids .




> Looks like Billy Ba can't spell either...

----------


## BajanBastard

SVC most of us in this thread has treated you with respect, I ask that you please do the same.

----------


## inevitable

i think svc is just getting pissed cuz to his surprise we kno wat we are talkin about..

----------


## LACBodybuilder

Just because SVC made all those mistakes when he started AS doesnt mean everyone else is going to. ANd the main reason for that is because of this board and the people on it that he chooses to disrespect.

----------


## Sta11ion

I am glad that you are telling the truth on this board, I can understand why your seminar is so negative towards AS especially SINCE YOU are talking to teenagers which is good. These kids at a young age don't understand the total effect until they get older.... IF you what some advice for your seminar I would put more information about what it would do at a young age. Such as sexual DYSFUNCTION, how it would effect there height (plates), acne, hair loss, grow body hair on there backs, deeper voice for women etc. Show pictures of this. Things that would AFFECT them now at a young age they don't think of stuff later in THEIR lives. By you showing how you looked before will maybe in courage them to try a little know. Kids today are into vanity, they don't care about when they get older only physical things, they already started to change cigarette cartons, on the CARTON THEY say it increases wrinkles, yellowish skin teeth etc. I know already four young adults who stopped just because they saw the pictures on the carton. They did not even care about the pic of the heart or lungs.....Anyway it would be great for you to contribute to this forum, I know you are against AS but with the knowledge you know now and with guidance from a HRT doctor it would benefit you life style. But I UNDERSTAND and respect why you would not choose this route. I am glad thou that someone is doing something for youths of today. Good luck on your ventures.

----------


## *Narkissos*

> If you take HCG it never stops making it.


I call BS on that

Long-term HCG administration leads to testosterone suppression...

Wish i had Big K.l.g.'s 2003 nursing handbook

http://www.emea.eu.int/humandocs/ PD.../297998en6.pdf



> For pituitary down regulation, chronic administration of these agonists results in a desensitisation(down regulation) of pituitary receptors and inhibition of gonadotropin and sex steroid secretionleading to a selective medical hypophysectomy and a so-called chemical castration.




http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t_uids=8311515
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...ract/62/6/1184

----------


## Ntpadude

> i don't think we're going to learn anything useful from this guy, except "what not to do". his routines seem to be based on the gym superstitions of 15 years ago, which are even stupider than the gym superstitions today.
> 
> he states his "13 injectable" cycle was based on "every different AS using a differnent metabolic pathway" and then he began to describe a ridiculous cycle of garbage (mixing cutters with bulkers etc.). he claims his total dosage was actually rather low, so this probably wasn't the stupidest thing he did.
> 
> listen to his "rehab therapy" description b4 you decide to listen to anything he says. he was his own worst enemy.
> 
> that being said, i wouldn't wish what happened to him on my worst enemy. get well, i hope your health recovers soon..


Yea but he's not the first nor will he be the last to sustain injuries, or make mistakes mixing bulkers with cutters. Cutters really should be left out of all our cycles because his injuries are actually classic and common of cutters like Winny and EQ. He also went from like 175 to 225 after just 2 cycles, he obviously had too much development in a short period of time which had everything to do with all his troubles and why it also shrunk away so fast. The reality is, these days, most of us are doing our training while on steroids completely wrong. If you want to grow really fast, you need to really start accellerating how heavy you are lifting weights. I think most of us that only gain up 10-15 lbs in a cycle are gaining so little because we are not realizing how fast your muscles will adapt to really heavier weights. LIke push yourself to exhaustion at 5 reps... after a few days your muscles will adapt so quickly that you can increase these same weights to 8 to 10 reps, but this very rapid progress in strength also brings a serious risk in that your ligaments, tendons, bones, bursal sacks, etc are just not ready to handle the increased weight. Reality is, only the bulky parts of your muscle improve while on steroids. The steroids do nothing to increase strength of your bones, joints, tendons, etc.

----------


## BajanBastard

> and thats the truth?!? anybody?
> 
> SVC did you ever have any problems with your dick or balls?


No it is not. HCG acts like LH in the male body. Exogenous testosterone stops LH and FSH production, however HCG also causes i negative feed-back loop so using it during i cycle is pointless, it like using clomid while you're on cycle, the actions of the clomid is totally cancelled out.

----------


## BajanBastard

> Yea but he's not the first nor will he be the last to sustain injuries, or make mistakes mixing bulkers with cutters. Cutters really should be left out of all our cycles because his injuries are actually classic and common of cutters like Winny and EQ.  He also went from like 175 to 225 after just 2 cycles, he obviously had too much development in a short period of time which had everything to do with all his troubles and why it also shrunk away so fast. The reality is, these days, most of us are doing our training while on steroids completely wrong. If you want to grow really fast, you need to really start accellerating how heavy you are lifting weights. I think most of us that only gain up 10-15 lbs in a cycle are gaining so little because we are not realizing how fast your muscles will adapt to really heavier weights. LIke push yourself to exhaustion at 5 reps... after a few days your muscles will adapt so quickly that you can increase these same weights to 8 to 10 reps, but this very rapid progress in strength also brings a serious risk in that your ligaments, tendons, bones, bursal sacks, etc are just not ready to handle the increased weight. Reality is, only the bulky parts of your muscle improve while on steroids. The steroids do nothing to increase strength of your bones, joints, tendons, etc.


I've seen you post some croc sh!t before but this one takes the cake.

----------


## Ntpadude

> I've seen you post some croc sh!t before but this one takes the cake.


Wow, you almost quote the text book and also backed up with very good base of common knowledge but say something people dont want to hear and you get this.

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> I've seen you post some croc sh!t before but this one takes the cake.


 :LOL:

----------


## Sta11ion

:LOL:  **** I have work to do but this is just to funny to leave.


> Wow, you almost quote the text book and also backed up with very good base of common knowledge but say something people dont want to hear and you get this.

----------


## SVC

> You mean like arimidex making your body produce test?


No, I was saying arimidex is the same as Nolvadex .

----------


## SVC

> **** I have work to do but this is just to funny to leave.


I heard that! You're right!

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> No, I was saying arimidex is the same as Nolvadex.


Ummm...it's not. One stops estrogen from binding to receptors...the other stops aromatization.

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

Anyone else feel that this thread is going in circles...over and over again!? Talk about being inefficient with time management.  :Frown:

----------


## BajanBastard

> No, I was saying arimidex is the same as Nolvadex.


What?! Anastrozole (Aremidex) is an aromatise inhibitor, Tamoxifen Citrate (Nolvadex ) is a S.E.R.M. What are you trying to say?

----------


## SVC

> I call BS on that
> 
> Long-term HCG administration leads to testosterone suppression...
> 
> Wish i had Big K.l.g.'s 2003 nursing handbook
> 
> http://www.emea.eu.int/humandocs/ PD.../297998en6.pdf
> 
> 
> ...



Hey, it worked for me. My testicles never atrophied ever and you saw how I responded after just a few cycles... Many of the guys I used to train with had all of their metabolic pathways disrupted and now they have to wear patches for life. They never used HCG while cycling just after their cycles. My natural test production is fine to this day. Think there's a correlation?

----------


## SVC

> Anyone else feel that this thread is going in circles...over and over again!? Talk about being inefficient with time management.


I heard that MBH. I'm thinking about how much cake I'm losing... I'm out, later!

----------


## SVC

> Dude I have 3 years of college chemistry under my belt including organic chem 1 and 2 so Trust me I can spell. I made a mistake typing fast, big f'ing deal. Your just mad because everyone here is proving your bs to be exactly what it is.....B.S
> 
> maybe you should actually research what you are talking about because you look like an idiot when all of us keep proving you wrong. Some of us are actually smart and maybe if you took the time to educate yourself, you wouldnt have had such a bad experience being addicted to steroids.



I'm sorry, what have I said that you've proven to be BS?

----------


## SVC

> Ummm...it's not. One stops estrogen from binding to receptors...the other stops aromatization.


They are both estrogen antagonists like proviron as well.

----------


## BajanBastard

> Wow, you almost quote the text book and also backed up with very good base of common knowledge but say something people dont want to hear and you get this.


  :LOL:  Bro that was total crap i just read. Look at this!





Ntpadude 
Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,839 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FamLay
what's the difference between: test e, test cypionate , and test prop-and how do each work, if not the same 


Most simple terms possible:

Testosterone in pill form or suspended in water for example, your body processes what it can, and dumps the rest out in urine... in this form no matter how much you inject, its all removed from your body in less then 24 hours.

Testosterone Prop - is an oil that bonds to the testosterone. Testosterone is released as the oil slowly breaks down to become water soluable, as we know oil and water doesnt readily mix, so by doing it this way, we add a time release element to the testosterone by bonding it to oil. IN prop they use a special type of oil that takes approximately 3.5 days to break down completely.

Testosterone E or Cyp - two different oils that basically are almost identical, one is sesame seed oil (Cyp) and other is cotton seed oil (enanthate ). The cotton seed version (enanthate) is significantly less likely to cause alergic reaction then sesame seed (cyp) and thats the only significant reason to choose one or the other. Cyp tends to be used more in the United States for FDA drugs, enanthate tends to be used more in Europe and elsewhere although both are available by prescription in both regions.
Test E or Cyp is an oil that takes longer to break down, it takes approximately 16 to 18 days to break down the oil completely, so it has a longer time release property then testosterone prop.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=135215  :LOL:

----------


## JdFlex

This thread is very interesting. It has many valid points, and addresses different perspectives. In keeping an open mind, one can learn a lot. What I don't understand is he says he has always cycled for 6 weeks on 6 weeks off, then he takes 6 months off a year. I thought he said he has never taken large doses either. And yet he built such a massive physique. That doesn't add up to me.

----------


## SVC

> and thats the truth?!? anybody?
> 
> SVC did you ever have any problems with your dick or balls?


No sir. Never had a problem. Packing heat and coconuts...

----------


## SVC

> This thread is very interesting. It has many valid points, and addresses different perspectives. In keeping an open mind, one can learn a lot. What I don't understand is he says he has always cycled for 6 weeks on 6 weeks off, then he takes 6 months off a year. I thought he said he has never taken large doses either. And yet he built such a massive physique. That doesn't add up to me.


It's because I had good genetics and responded well to AS. My competition season ended every year in June so I would stay off until January.

----------


## Decakur

> No sir. Never had a problem. Packing heat and coconuts...


Thats just amazing, your where huge. LOL.
Amazing physique althought.. 

Did you eat any supplements like protein or elese?
what did you eat to get that freaking huge (yes a lot
of it was your genetics)

----------


## LACBodybuilder

I just want to go on the record as saying I love this thread and would like it to continue forever. Very entertaining.

----------


## JdFlex

> It's because I had good genetics and responded well to AS.


Apparently. You were jacked bro. For the record, I wouldn't want to be that big. Just a little bit smaller will do!  :Big Grin:  LOL j/k. Seriously though, what would your average cycle look like? Just roughly.

----------


## JdFlex

Yeah what did you eat? How clean was your diet? Did you use clen /T3/DNP or anything like that to get so ripped but stay so big?

----------


## BajanBastard

> They are both estrogen antagonists like proviron as well.


Nope wrong. Nolva is a mixed antagonist/agonist. Anastrozole is an aromatise inhibitor not an estrogen receptor antagonist.

----------


## SVC

> Yeah what did you eat? How clean was your diet? Did you use clen/T3/DNP or anything like that to get so ripped but stay so big?


Never had to do any thyroid. Had a super fast metabolism... The only time I did T3 (triacana ) was when I did the Crescormin (real HGH, which didn't do anything)

Back in the early 80's the supplements sucked and there was no whey protein, just clumpy horrible egg protein. I ate lots of chicken and basmati brown rice.

----------


## Decakur

> Never had to do any thyroid. Had a super fast metabolism... The only time I did T3 (triacana ) was when I did the Crescormin (real HGH, which didn't do anything)
> 
> Back in the early 80's the supplements sucked and there was no whey protein, just clumpy horrible egg protein. I ate lots of chicken and basmati brown rice.


man how often did you eat? 
your diet had to be clen and alots of food to get that look.

did you brusch your theeth every hour? cleeen WHITE!!

And your skin was nice too..

----------


## SVC

> Thats just amazing, your where huge. LOL.
> Amazing physique althought.. 
> 
> Did you eat any supplements like protein or elese?
> what did you eat to get that freaking huge (yes a lot
> of it was your genetics)


A good mult-vitamin & multi-mineral. 

I trained like a lunatic! I hurled almost every workout... I treated every workout like a life or death struggle... forced reps... I worked out with a freak 5'5" 290 benching 600 and front squating 600 for 10. We pulled the hack machine out of the floor...

I used to wake up at 3:00am in a cold sweat thinking about the next leg workout...

----------


## Decakur

> I used to wake up at 3:00am in a cold sweat thinking about the next leg workout...


thats just amazing, ****ing guts to the gym  :Strong Smiley:

----------


## SVC

> man how often did you eat? 
> your diet had to be clen and alots of food to get that look.
> 
> did you brusch your theeth every hour? cleeen WHITE!!
> 
> And your skin was nice too..


Thanks man, I appreciate that!

I ate every 2 hours and always took digestive enzymes half way through each meal.

----------


## Decakur

man, when i started this thread i had no thoughts about it to bee
this big. 
anyway, everbody has their own opinions like i sad, but i think
alots of people are intresting to ask you questions like i doo right
now, and i must thank you for hanging out at this forum and 
answear both our nice & stupied quest.

(sorry for my english)

----------


## Ntpadude

I still dont understand what the problem was. This stuff about differences in ester have nothing to do with my post. Was it the part about pushing yourself with the heaviest weights possible, trying up your lifting capacity 20 lbs a week and watch your muscles very rapidly adapt? The part about winny causing joint problems? There are dozens of guys in here with winny and EQ related joint injuries. The part about SVC gaining too much strength too fast for his body, bones and joints to keep up with the muscle and strength grow and the fact that he took full advantage of steroids to be able to lift the sickest weights? I donno I am lost as to your thinking.




> Bro that was total crap i just read. Look at this!
> 
> Ntpadude 
> Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003
> Location: Florida
> Posts: 1,839 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by FamLay
> ...

----------


## billy_ba

that distilled water dosent take minerals out of the body, you contradict yourself by saying that DI water takes out inorganics and metals however, what you dont understand is that Inorganics/metals=minerals. So I pointed out that you contradict your own statments thats my point. Anyone who knows anything basic about chemistry would know this.




> I'm sorry, what have I said that you've proven to be BS?

----------


## billy_ba

well, im getting out of this discussion because there's an old saying that you can't argue with stupidity.

----------


## squatster

wow- This was a cool thred to come into for the first post.
He brings up many things I agree with-
I have been lifting and compeating for years.And have been a national competitor for some time now. I saw this dude in a show years and years back while visiting a frend. He was unbeatable, I think that was the show Jay Cutler was in back when. Think the Plymouth Rock.
I beleave the kids should be edjecated and also adults about the bad stuff involved in juice.
I would have loved to know years ago that I would be how I am now.
my balls never came back one time. Thay always used to come back in, I have no sex drive now, my shoulder is gone, my hips kill and snap like a basterd when I am on top of my woman, My dick even srank, I used have a great unit, The dick thing from juice????????? probibly from lack of use.( learned something from me, use it or loose it) My colesteral is 278 and the good is 34, My cpk is way out, and my natural test is 00000000000
Have to go into get blood test every 3 to 6 months now. ( want to have kids some day)fat chance.
I have gone natural for this year to try to get every thing back on track. If it goes well I will probibly do some more juice again. ( with a doctor that knows what he is doing)
I agree with you all- There is nothing like it the power, the muscle, winning all the time and freeking every one out
couple facts for some people that didn't know how it used to be and is still to this day-

Doctors- in the 80"s and 90"s none new any thing about juice and didn't even know it exzisted. 

Doctors of today- You wil find one in every thousand that know what juice is never mind how to use it for good, most don't even know how to read the blood test. It is ****ed up. These fat ass doctors with the cigrets and donuts hanging out of there mouths can tell us how to do juice? I think not

No body - No one knew how to do juice back then- It was all here say and trial and ara. That is probibly why this guy tried the 13 things. How the hell should you know until you tried it.
Dan Ducain learned from his ginny pigs. He never got any results him self.You read his books and a lot of the stuff is contradicted in the new books.
No humen studies- There have not been any human studies done to say what the affects of juice is, Just hear say and theries. 
It is great that this guy is coming out with this dvd to eduacate people and hopefuly people will start to do servays on all the juice related things.
Is there any where on this site where we can put up a servay. No names just age- when started juice and have a list of things that we can check off, like side affects and most of all possitive affects.
It probibly would not work becouse people are to macho to say what ails them.
Great post guys and can't wait to see the finnished dvd

----------


## squatster

is there a spell check here You will notice that I can not spell for ****. I know juice and lifting but don't spell to well

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

Hmmm? IP check?  :Big Grin:

----------


## BajanBastard

lol Look like SVC has a new fan!

----------


## BDTR

As much as i like you, i have to disagree. I was arrested for assualt for telling someone if he didnt shut up i was gonna hit him.

Maybe its just in MA.




> your lack of research is showing again. a verbal threat is not an assault. and saying you'd love to smack someone isn't even a threat.
> 
> and almost no one goes to prison for simple assault and battery anyway.
> 
> you are correct that it was innapropriate tho.

----------


## Carlos_E

> Hmmm? IP check?


Agreed.

----------


## BDTR

It was over AIM 4 years ago. I wasnt convicted as there wasnt enough proof it was me. It didnt believe it at all.




> it has to be more than verbal. the "threat" must include some kind of threatening gesture or motion. advancing with your hand raised while saying "i'm gonna kick your ass" could be assault. saying the same over the internet (or even the couch) is not.

----------


## BDTR

Assualt.

The reason there was an arrest warrent issued was do to previous problems with me and this person, including a prior battery of him that was on record. That and i said "i know where you live". Hell i was only 20, didnt know the law or anything.




> over AOL instant messenger? that is plainly inconsistent with the wording of the law. under mass law you could be charged with threats of bodily harm, and arrested by a warrant, but not for assault. that is bizarre.
> 
> what exactly was the charge on the complaint?

----------


## GrimmReaper

tool

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> tool


bdtr? Or SVC?  :Big Grin:

----------


## mitch428cj

Link dosnt work for me i get this .... error 404: File not found


The document you requested is not found.

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> Link dosnt work for me i get this .... error 404: File not found
> 
> 
> The document you requested is not found.


AR wins another one.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Decakur

thats just amazing..  :Strong Smiley:

----------


## Muscleone

I wouldn't bother explaining myself. Some of these guys on this forum obviously think they are experts when it comes to A.S.. People are going to think what they want and you can't control that. You have a sad but excellent story to tell that hopefully will help others before they possibly end up with similar medical problems like yourself. You can help others with your misfortune and if you profit from it I don't see anything wrong with it. Have you ever thought about writing a book? Good luck and take care of yourself. 




QUOTE=SVC]I'm not the same guy I was 20 years ago... I've learned from my mistakes.

Maybe some of you wouldn't want to hire me but many of the top athletes in the world do... 

Let's see if you guys can grasp this ONCE & FOR ALL...

I DID THE NECK RAISES WITH 200 LBS FOR 4 WEEKS ONLY. DID THE NECK RAISES SCREW UP MY HIPS, SHOULDER, & BACK?

IF I WASN'T ON JUICE I WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO BENCH 500LBS & SQUAT 700 LBS FOR REPS.[/QUOTE]

----------


## SVC

http://steroidsviciouscycles.com/HTMLobj-1422/SVC3.html

or

http://steroidsviciouscycles.com/HTM...hotos2Win.html


57,657 hits in past 3 weeks - Thanks!

----------


## Carlos_E

> http://steroidsviciouscycles.com/HTMLobj-1422/SVC3.html
> 
> or
> 
> http://steroidsviciouscycles.com/HTM...hotos2Win.html
> 
> 
> 57,657 hits in past 3 weeks - Thanks!


Yeah, I guess it's all about the hits.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  Pretty soon you'll have banner ads up so you can really make a buck.

----------


## BUYLONGTERM

I agree with a lot of the points everyone is making. But, I look at it like this. Regardless of what you think of SVC, or he thinks of you, I think we are all missing a major point. And that point is this.

Whether we like it or not, there are dangers/risks to AS. If we are all sitting here thinking there isn't, we are crazy. I think we sometimes get defensive because we don't want to hear the bad things. Personally I do. It reminds me that it is very important to be safe!!! I could care less how much weight he lifted with his neck. I do like to remind myself that Steroids are NOT a joking matter, no matter how safe we think we are. Yes, the more educated we are, the better. Yes, there are people/teenagers giving steroids a bad name. But, we have to just be careful. Since being on steroids, I have had major shoulder problems. I have pulled muscles in my neck and back. It's hard to sleep at night. 


Be safe,

BLT

----------


## SVC

> Yeah, I guess it's all about the hits.  Pretty soon you'll have banner ads up so you can really make a buck.



No, it's all about bringing attention to a serious issue. One of the many aspects of the issue is:

Nearly HALF A MILLION MIDDLE SCHOOL & HIGH SCHOOL KIDS ADMIT TO TRYING ANABOLIC STEROIDS !

Do you think that's cool? Oh yeah, you must, your 20 year old buddy (who you've defended) has done a cycle... looks like he'll stay 5'6"...

----------


## Ntpadude

> No, it's all about bringing attention to a serious issue. One of the many aspects of the issue is:
> 
> Nearly HALF A MILLION MIDDLE SCHOOL & HIGH SCHOOL KIDS ADMIT TO TRYING ANABOLIC STEROIDS !
> 
> Do you think that's cool? Oh yeah, you must, your 20 year old buddy (who you've defended) has done a cycle... looks like he'll stay 5'6"...


Normally a male's body makes less aromatase then normal until after 25 years old. This is what allows an 18 to 24 year old to have the very highest natural testosterone levels of their life because estrogen is one of the devices a male's body uses that limits or controls testosterone production. What these kids dont understand is that they naturally have testosterone levels that a 35 year old is shooting testosterone in order to get back up to. You kids can grow very well on what mother nature is giving you for free, in fact these high levels of testosterone and growth hormone is what is limiting your body fat accumulation and sometimes holding back your weight gains on the scale since both testosterone and growth hormone have natural tendancies to make you very lean and trim. 

Its not testosterone that closes the growth plates, its estrogen. Unfortunately, nolva, clomid and others "directly" shutdown growth plates on their own without the help of estrogen coming from conversion from testosterone. Get a little bit of real estrogen going and you've surely stopped your growth potential. Ask any adult and they will tell you, often up to the final 6 inches of height growth happens after the age of 20. 

OK you say I am happy at 5' 10" and dont want to get taller. Well your hip, bones, foot size all prepared themselves for you to get to your maximum height, if you shut it off early you get out of purportion oversized feet for your height and can cause knee and hip problems later in life. If you decide no clomid for PCT because clomid directly shuts down your height growth, then why did you do steroids if you've now taken a man that should be producing 900 levels of testosterone and got him stuck making only 50 because without clomid, the restarting of testosterone production is extremely slow and hap-hazard.

----------


## Decakur

> No, it's all about bringing attention to a serious issue. One of the many aspects of the issue is:
> 
> Nearly HALF A MILLION MIDDLE SCHOOL & HIGH SCHOOL KIDS ADMIT TO TRYING ANABOLIC STEROIDS !
> 
> Do you think that's cool? Oh yeah, you must, your 20 year old buddy (who you've defended) has done a cycle... looks like he'll stay 5'6"...


SVC please you must understad that alot of people dont care if they gona get any taller, look at me, I DONT WANT TO GET ANY TALLER!! 
So that problem is NOTHING teenagers thinking about..  :Don't know:   :Don't know:   :Don't know:

----------


## Ntpadude

> SVC please you must understad that alot of people dont care if they gona get any taller, look at me, I DONT WANT TO GET ANY TALLER!! 
> So that problem is NOTHING teenagers thinking about..


Yea but the thing is, not doing a cycle, after 18 to 24 year old naturally makes in excess of 900 ml of testosterone . A 35 year old man injecting 1 gram of test a week is going thru all that trouble to get blood levels of 990 ml of testosterone! But this same kid does a cycle, comes out of the cycle never making more then 400 mg of testosterone. So you got a very temporary boost to muscle but in the year round scope, you will make LESS muscle the year you juice, then had you not!

----------


## BajanBastard

> Yea but the thing is, not doing a cycle, after 18 to 24 year old naturally makes in excess of 900 ml of testosterone. A 35 year old man injecting 1 gram of test a week is going thru all that trouble to get blood levels of 990 ml of testosterone! But this same kid does a cycle, comes out of the cycle never making more then 400 mg of testosterone. So you got a very temporary boost to muscle but in the year round scope, you will make LESS muscle the year you juice, then had you not!


What? Where do you find this "information"?

----------


## Carlos_E

> Yea but the thing is, not doing a cycle, after 18 to 24 year old naturally makes in excess of 900 ml of testosterone. A 35 year old man injecting 1 gram of test a week is going thru all that trouble to get blood levels of 990 ml of testosterone! But this same kid does a cycle, comes out of the cycle never making more then 400 mg of testosterone. So you got a very temporary boost to muscle but in the year round scope, you will make LESS muscle the year you juice, then had you not!


I believe your numbers are off.

----------


## BUYLONGTERM

> What? Where do you find this "information"?


He is the man!!!! VET status is deserved!!!!

----------


## Carlos_E

> What? Where do you find this "information"?


Pretty much what I was getting at. I just said it in a nicer way.  :LOL:

----------


## Odin

> Yea but the thing is, not doing a cycle, after 18 to 24 year old naturally makes in excess of 900 ml of testosterone. A 35 year old man injecting 1 gram of test a week is going thru all that trouble to get blood levels of 990 ml of testosterone! But this same kid does a cycle, comes out of the cycle never making more then 400 mg of testosterone. So you got a very temporary boost to muscle but in the year round scope, you will make LESS muscle the year you juice, then had you not!



ML you mean MG? SO your saying a 35 year old man Injecting a gram will have the same test level as a natural 18-24 year old??  :What?:

----------


## Carlos_E

> Nearly HALF A MILLION MIDDLE SCHOOL & HIGH SCHOOL KIDS ADMIT TO TRYING ANABOLIC STEROIDS!


NEARLY HALF A MILLION MIDDLE SCHOOL & HIGH SCHOOL KIDS randomly fill out surveys. I know I did. How else do you get results such as 11 and 12 year old girls being on steroids ? Do you really think an 11 year old girl is locking herself in the bathroom giving herself a shot? Some people think creatine and protein powders are steroids. I was making a shake at work and I had someone ask me is that one of those steroid shakes? So I don't put much faith in anonymous surveys.

----------


## Odin

> NEARLY HALF A MILLION MIDDLE SCHOOL & HIGH SCHOOL KIDS randomly fill out surveys. I know I did. How else do you get results such as 11 and 12 year old girls being on steroids? Do you really think an 11 year old girl is locking herself in the bathroom giving herself a shot? Some people think creatine and protein powders are steroids. I was making a shake at work and I had someone ask me is that one of those steroid shakes? So I don't put much faith in anonymous surveys.


I guess I agree, a survey stated that teenage guys having twice the sex as the girls, so either the guys were lying or the girls were lying or their more gay dudes then we think  :Confusion:

----------


## *Narkissos*

> What? Where do you find this "information"?


I don't get it... it's like you have intuition..you always get here seconds before me

 :LOL:

----------


## Decakur

bump

----------


## LACBodybuilder

SVC, your argument just isnt working. And some of the numbers I have seen on here have to be fabricated. 900mg of test as a teen. I call B*llsh!t. SHow me proof. Then why did I gain 30 lbs of muscle off of 500mg/wk when I wasnt putting on any with my 900mg natural test.  :Hmmmm:

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> SVC, your argument just isnt working. And some of the numbers I have seen on here have to be fabricated. 900mg of test as a teen. I call B*llsh!t. SHow me proof. Then why did I gain 30 lbs of muscle off of 500mg/wk when I wasnt putting on any with my 900mg natural test.


That was ntpadude.

----------


## LACBodybuilder

> That was ntpadude.


True, let me rephrase, ntpadude and SVC have weak and very misinformed arguments.

----------


## Odin

> True, let me rephrase, ntpadude and SVC have weak and very misinformed arguments.


I have heard roughly 7mg to 20mg max a day. So at the most where talking 140 and that's pretty steep. That why some say a 10mg tab of d-bol is what a man produces a day. Teens today would need nut's the size of baseball's to general 900mg of test power a week. dam

----------


## BajanBastard

> I don't get it... it's like you have intuition..you always get here seconds before me


I smell the blood in the water.  :Devil Grin:

----------


## LACBodybuilder

> I have heard roughly 7mg to 20mg max a day. So at the most where talking 140 and that's pretty steep. That why some say a 10mg tab of d-bol is what a man produces a day. Teens today would need nut's the size of baseball's to general 900mg of test power a week. dam


Agreed. If I had procued 900mg of test i would be one huge, hairy, horny Mf'er.

----------


## GrantC5

This was a great movie I think a lot of people on here that are doing 3 and 4 different types of gear at excessive levels will end up just like this moron. MODERATION is key in everything, I would rather do 3 low dose - med. dose cycles rather than 1 huge "I'm gonna get huge in a 8 weeks" cycle. It's stupidity.......IMO 

One other thing I should mention this guy in the movie should have never quit cold turkey like that no wonder he shrunk up like a f-ing raisin his body was in shock, He quit working out and stopped all his gear all at once. He should have ran through PCT and waited awhile and did a LOW dose cycle to keep his body somewhat normal. What a f-ing idiot.

----------


## LACBodybuilder

> This was a great movie I think a lot of people on here that are doing 3 and 4 different types of gear at excessive levels will end up just like this moron. MODERATION is key in everything, I would rather do 3 low dose - med. dose cycles rather than 1 huge "I'm gonna get huge in a 8 weeks" cycle. It's stupidity.......IMO 
> 
> One other thing I should mention this guy in the movie should have never quit cold turkey like that no wonder he shrunk up like a f-ing raisin his body was in shock, He quit working out and stopped all his gear all at once. He should have ran through PCT and waited awhile and did a LOW dose cycle to keep his body somewhat normal. What a f-ing idiot.


I do love how when he is listing the drugs he is on he mentions clomid. running clomid during a cycle? It must have gone well with the eq/fina/decA /anadrol /test combo he had. One of those "I want to gain muscle while getting cut" guys i guess.

----------


## SVC

> I do love how when he is listing the drugs he is on he mentions clomid. running clomid during a cycle? It must have gone well with the eq/fina/decA/anadrol/test combo he had. One of those "I want to gain muscle while getting cut" guys i guess.



It was "A" Anavar Anyone that takes Anadrol 50 might as well save time and take Draino 50. Toxic orals like Anadrol, Halotestin & D-bol are useless as t*ts on a bull. 

ORALS HAVE TO TRAVEL THROUGH YOUR STOMACH... AND ARE BROKEN DOWN BY YOUR LIVER RIGHT AWAY... WHEN EVERYTHING IS SAID AND DONE YOUR A50 is an A10 and your SGOTs ARE 810. 

Clomid or HCG prevents your natural test from shutting down while you're on. 10-4 "raison cubes?"

----------


## bignatt

SVC is your diet just some crock of shlt? because it looks to me like you still workout with weights i dont see how you could possibly look like that from bowflex......and im not coming at you i am just curious

----------


## squatster

must b esome muscle memery **** going on to. Don't need juice to get it going again just good old food
To answer some one question before in this post- I am a SVC fan 
after watching him way back when crushing the other guys on stage and hearing one of the top pro's of today and Quadzilla saying and pointing- holy **** look at those legs. From then on I was a fan. Never saw him again till this web site. ( sad story) Looking at the posts and seing him here and a few others from theanaboliczone ( that I was a vet from since almost the begining there) I came over
I would love to be able to have the balls to make a dvd of my life and the mistakes I did, to help at least one kid learn and make an educated disision.This guy is putting his ass on the line here for this, Look at all the bashing he got here. Some people will want to kill him for it. 
I wish the people that have conflicts with the doeses and the facts that he states just e-mail him the right facts and doeses and try to help him out. This **** must be a bitch alone. This is a good board compared to most. Alot of good strong opinions.
Wish some one told me right from wrong back when
- I started out at the age of 15 with anavar that a cop that we all looked up to from my city. He was like super cop. Big as hell and strong. That is when my **** happend. How the **** would I know that it was bad for me - No one there to tell me so. You have a cop saying that it was totaly safe. You don't think of bad things. That was 22 years ago. I have been adicted since. Tried to stop one year for my bitch ex- I went from 222 at 5'7" and not over 5% with nice deep abs and kicking ass in all the shows to 142 in 6 months. Can you say deep depression. I was to mean skinny to, got in alot of trouble. 
How was I to know I would get adicted when I was 15. No one to tell me different and no one now to tell those little gready bald faces till now. ( I solute him and wish I could help) I don't think I have the balls to though. Don't want to get bashed by all of you. Hope I didn't ofend any one o=r piss any one off just staiting some facts to explain me and try to help some people see how it realy is.

----------


## SVC

> must b esome muscle memery **** going on to. Don't need juice to get it going again just good old food
> To answer some one question before in this post- I am a SVC fan 
> after watching him way back when crushing the other guys on stage and hearing Jay Cutler and Quadzilla saying and pointing- holy **** look at those legs. From then on I was a fan. Never saw him again till this web site. ( sad story) Looking at the posts and seing him here and a few others from theanaboliczone ( that I was a vet from since almost the begining there) I came over
> I would love to be able to have the balls to make a dvd of my life and the mistakes I did, to help at least one kid learn and make an educated disision.This guy is putting his ass on the line here for this, Look at all the bashing he got here. Some people will want to kill him for it. 
> I wish the people that have conflicts with the doeses and the facts that he states just e-mail him the right facts and doeses and try to help him out. This **** must be a bitch alone. This is a good board compared to most. Alot of good strong opinions.
> Wish some one told me right from wrong back when
> - I started out at the age of 15 with anavar that a cop that we all looked up to from my city. He was like super cop. Big as hell and strong. That is when my **** happend. How the **** would I know that it was bad for me - No one there to tell me so. You have a cop saying that it was totaly safe. You don't think of bad things. That was 22 years ago. I have been adicted since. Tried to stop one year for my bitch ex- I went from 222 at 5'7" and not over 5% with nice deep abs and kicking ass in all the shows to 142 in 6 months. Can you say deep depression. I was to mean skinny to, got in alot of trouble. 
> How was I to know I would get adicted when I was 15. No one to tell me different and no one now to tell those little gready bald faces till now. ( I solute him and wish I could help) I don't think I have the balls to though. Don't want to get bashed by all of you. Hope I didn't ofend any one o=r piss any one off just staiting some facts to explain me and try to help some people see how it realy is.



Thanks for the props Squatster! After getting stung by 20 bees a day for 6 months straight - take ****e from some of dudes is a cake walk  :Smilie:

----------


## SVC

> SVC is your diet just some crock of shlt? because it looks to me like you still workout with weights i dont see how you could possibly look like that from bowflex......and im not coming at you i am just curious



A $200. Bandflex bro, not even a Bowflex. Yes, my diet is mind blowing and diet is 90% of it. You are what you eat... If I knew then what I know now I would have been 260 knifed! 

Which town in MA are you originally from?

----------


## LACBodybuilder

> It was "A" Anavar Anyone that takes Anadrol 50 might as well save time and take Draino 50. Toxic orals like Anadrol, Halotestin & D-bol are useless as t*ts on a bull. 
> 
> ORALS HAVE TO TRAVEL THROUGH YOUR STOMACH... AND ARE BROKEN DOWN BY YOUR LIVER RIGHT AWAY... WHEN EVERYTHING IS SAID AND DONE YOUR A50 is an A10 and your SGOTs ARE 810. 
> 
> Clomid or HCG prevents your natural test from shutting down while you're on. 10-4 "raison cubes?"


Anavar,/Anadrol, who really gives a **** with the rest of the stuff you were on. and, I know what hcg and clomid do. however clomid is not used during a cycle, it is used during pct. and running clomid and hcg together at the sometime is very ineffective. Oh, and raisen cubes is quite clever. way to go on that one. except for the fact that my 'cubes' are just fine thanks to proper pct.

----------


## squatster

why can't you do clomid in a cycle- I always used to use it for show prep. 8 weeks out to the show with all the other ****. Reguler cycle I do my clomids with the hcg to.
Not tring to bust balls, just here to learn to. If it is wrong to do them, I won't be waisting my money. Get's expensive. I have no balls any more any ways and probibly never will again, from all the years but ya never know, did produce a kid though. Hope mabie to do it agin some day again but i don't think so. To far gone now. I found the right one and may not be able to have kids again

----------


## LACBodybuilder

> why can't you do clomid in a cycle- I always used to use it for show prep. 8 weeks out to the show with all the other ****. Reguler cycle si do my clomids with the hcg to.
> Not tring to bust balls, just here to learn to. If it is wrong then to do them, I won't be waisting my money. Get's expensive. I have no balls any more and probibly never will again, from all the years but ya never know


I know for a fact that running clomid and hcg at the same time is counter productive, the hcg makes the clomid work improperly. Now, you can technically run clomid during a cycle, but why? Nolva and ldex and much smarter and more effective drugs for what you are trying to accomplish. save the clomid for pct when it is truly most effective.

----------


## BajanBastard

Clomid is a S.E.R.M that boosts natural hormonal output. Using it on cycle would have a anti-estrogenic effect, however it is pointless to use it for its HPTA stimulating effect while a high amount of androgens will remains in ones body. The effect it canceled out. Oh your oral anabolics heptatoxicity is overrated.

----------


## Odin

> why can't you do clomid in a cycle- I always used to use it for show prep. 8 weeks out to the show with all the other ****. Reguler cycle I do my clomids with the hcg to.
> Not tring to bust balls, just here to learn to. If it is wrong to do them, I won't be waisting my money. Get's expensive. I have no balls any more any ways and probibly never will again, from all the years but ya never know, did produce a kid though. Hope mabie to do it agin some day again but i don't think so. To far gone now. I found the right one and may not be able to have kids again


Clomit during a cycle does not work and everyone know this so their not much arguing here, Also Clomid has sides to. It has been showen that clomid can cause permenant double vision. So mya SVC had only a 100 pounds on his neck and seen the weight twice? JK  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## johnsomebody

> If someone is going to use juice no matter what:
> 
> 1) take Milk Thistle (silymarin) all the way through your cycle (regenerates your liver).
> 2) take HCG all the way through your cycle.
> 3) 20 mgs of Nolva per day - 10mg then 10mg
> 4) get off between cycles to allow your body to normalize itself and clean out your receptor sites.
> 5) Drink tons of distilled water
> 6) Avoid toxic orals like A50, Halo, & D-bol (orals are broken down immediately - inj's are broken down more slowly - less strain on your liver - and much more utilization
> 7) Take 1 androgen & 2 anabolics. Start with the androgen and then add the anabolics one at a time weeks later
> ...


Personally I think this is some of the best advice Ive ever seen in one post in the three or so years Ive been at AR. Thanks for making it SVC and thanks also for sticking around and taking part in the discussion. I hope you stay and keep contributing.

----------


## SVC

> Personally I think this is some of the best advice Ive ever seen in one post in the three or so years Ive been at AR. Thanks for making it SVC and thanks also for sticking around and taking part in the discussion. I hope you stay and keep contributing.


Thanks man! It's "DaGanci Code", finally another "outside the box" thinker who isn't just regurgitating quotes from the next Dan Duchaine (a.k.a. soon to be worm food) juice pushing author...

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> So mya SVC had only a 100 pounds on his neck and seen the weight twice? JK


Haha. Sorry guys...that was funny.  :LOL:

----------


## LACBodybuilder

> Clomit during a cycle does not work and everyone know this so their not much arguing here, Also Clomid has sides to. It has been showen that clomid can cause permenant double vision. So mya SVC had only a 100 pounds on his neck and seen the weight twice? JK


Thats funny, yet true.

----------


## SVC

> Haha. Sorry guys...that was funny.


I'm not sure I get it... You guys can't let go of the neck raises huh? 

If it wasn't "the neck raises" it would be something else you would "point at" to humor yourself in to thinking, it's because he did this, he did that... "it won't happen to me"... what about some of the guys from my old gym that trained like girls, took almost nothing (Test E, Deca ) and they're screwed up now too... 

I'M TIRED OF BEING RIGHT  :Smilie:

----------


## SVC

> Haha. Sorry guys...that was funny.


I'm not sure I get it... You guys can't let go of the neck raises huh? 

If it wasn't "the neck raises" it would be something else you would "point at" to humor yourself in to thinking, it's because he did this, he did that... "it won't happen to me"... what about some of the guys from my old gym that trained like girls, took almost nothing (Test E, Deca ) and they're screwed up now too... 

I'M TIRED OF BEING RIGHT  :Smilie:

----------


## SVC

> Haha. Sorry guys...that was funny.


I'm not sure I get it... You guys can't let go of the neck raises huh? 

If it wasn't "the neck raises" it would be something else you would "point at" to humor yourself in to thinking, it's because he did this, he did that... "it won't happen to me"... what about some of the guys from my old gym that trained like girls, took almost nothing (Test E, Deca ) and they're screwed up now too... 

I'M TIRED OF BEING RIGHT  :Smilie:

----------


## SVC

> Thats funny, yet true.


You guys can't let go of the neck raises huh? 

If it wasn't "the neck raises" it would be something else you would "point at" to humor yourself in to thinking, it's because he did this, he did that... "it won't happen to me"... what about some of the guys from my old gym that trained like girls, took almost nothing (Test E, Deca ) and they're screwed up now too... 

I'M TIRED OF BEING RIGHT  :Smilie:

----------


## Anhydro78

What are you considering screwed up??? Maybe gland damage or something?? I plan on using steroid through most of my adult life. When I hit 40 wether im still doing this or not im gonna go on hormone therapy and HGH therapy. 


By the way im not so offended by your cause because you did point out that it was your own obsession with using multiple coumpounds that landed you in the trouble your in. There is nothing wrong with informing people of the dangers as long as you dont make the drugs out to be evil..

I have no respect for someone with excuses or someone that doesnt take responsiblity for their own actions. You have done neither from what I have seen.

But keep in mind that when you do things like make a list of people that used steroids that died from various reasons in an attempt to prey on peoples ignorance, that is wrong!!!You might want to stick the facts if you really want to " Make a differnce"!!!

----------


## Decakur

I still dont get it, clomid, hcg , in the whole cycle???

clomid has more sides then dbol ****!!!!
hcg can get you BT etc..

----------


## squatster

try it in a cycle some time- it is a little easer staying sredded, helps me with the water, at least I though. Stuff does get me sick to my stomach though. I did my comp diet with out the clomids and I missed the proviron and what a difference. I did not get near as shredded. If I new how to post new threds I would put up some pics of before and the last show

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## BajanBastard

[QUOTE=SVC]If someone is going to use juice no matter what:

1) take Milk Thistle (silymarin) all the way through your cycle (regenerates your liver).



> 2) take HCG all the way through your cycle.


Why? HCG is used during longer (15+ weeks) cycles to combat testicular atrophy.



> 3) 20 mgs of Nolva per day - 10mg then 10mg


Over kill IMO 10 mg is fine



> 4) get off between cycles to allow your body to normalize itself and clean out your receptor sites.


Your body does not need to "clean out" the AR, ARs are used and replenished. In fact androgens with weights UPREGULATE AR concentrations. 



> 5) Drink tons of distilled water


Water is one of our main sources of minerals. Distilled water is not good for long term use. 



> 6) Avoid toxic orals like A50, Halo, & D-bol (orals are broken down immediately - inj's are broken down more slowly - less strain on your liver - and much more utilization.


I disagree. Your scare statics may work with uneducated teens, not here. The heptatoxicity of oral anabolics is overstated, the drugs can be safely used for several weeks without problems.
7) 


> Take 1 androgen & 2 anabolics. Start with the androgen and then add the anabolics one at a time weeks later.


Now this is BS. Most steroids are derived from testosterone . Modifications the testosterone molecule changes the binding to the AR and anabolic /androgenic ratios however i don't think you should classify them in two different classes. What about testosterone, trenbolone and nandrolone ? Highly anabolic yet quite androgenic. If i followed your advice my cycle would be: Masteron for several weeks, Deca a few weeks later and then Primobolan later? 



> 8) More isn't better, you'll become a toxic waste dump.


A "toxic waste dump"? I do not believe in maga-dosing. Studies show that when testosterone is giving in doses of 50, 100, 300, 600 mg per week, the 600 mg group had the best gains in size and strength with only a slight off set in cholesterol. So yes more is better.



> 9) train each body part once a week.


Training frequency is highly individual but when "on" i'm sure you should train body parts at least E5D to make use of your enhanced recovery.



> 10) train abs & calves every day (all red muscle fiber) at the end of your workout


Abs and calves need rest like any other muscle group.

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> Why? HCG is used during longer (15+ weeks) cycles to combat testicular atrophy.
> 
> Over kill IMO 10 mg is fine
> 
> Your body does not need to "clean out" the AR, ARs are used and replenished. In fact androgens with weights UPREGULATE AR concentrations. 
> 
> Water is one of our main sources of minerals. Distilled water is not good for long term use. 
> 
> I disagree. Your scare statics may work with uneducated teens, not here. The heptatoxicity of oral anabolics is overstated, the drugs can be safely used for several weeks without problems.
> ...


Awesome rebuttal!!

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> hate to say it, but he might actually be right about the HCG protocol. swale has a similar routine. intead of using it to revers atrophy, he uses it throughout the cyle, to prevent atrphy. very small doses.


Most people do 500iu's on Sat on Sun...starting ~mid cycle...not through the whole cycle.

----------


## SVC

> Why? HCG is used during longer (15+ weeks) cycles to combat testicular atrophy.
> 
> Over kill IMO 10 mg is fine
> 
> Your body does not need to "clean out" the AR, ARs are used and replenished. In fact androgens with weights UPREGULATE AR concentrations. 
> 
> Water is one of our main sources of minerals. Distilled water is not good for long term use. 
> 
> I disagree. Your scare statics may work with uneducated teens, not here. The heptatoxicity of oral anabolics is overstated, the drugs can be safely used for several weeks without problems.
> ...



Who are you & what are your credentials? If that's you in the back double bi your skin looks like it's about 3 inches thick bro? Your screen name should be George Castanza, "if every instinct you have is wrong, the opposite must be right"  :Smilie:  "In 10th place from Smoothington... George Castanza"...


QUESTION: 
What was wrong with this board last night? When attempting to post something it wouldn't go through and when it did, everything was posted multiple times???

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> Who are you & what are your credentials? If that's you in the back double bi your skin looks like it's about 3 inches thick bro? Your screen name should be George Castanza, "if every instinct you have is wrong, the opposite must be right"  "In 10th place from Smoothington... George Castanza"...
> 
> 
> QUESTION: 
> What was wrong with this board last night? When attempting to post something it wouldn't go through and when it did, everything was posted multiple times???


You're not going to gain more respect by bashing other's photos. You have enough hassles here already. Why pick personal fights? Just my .02

At night I believe the server gets back up. Slows down/halts processing. Only hit the button once...it'll show.

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## bignatt

> A $200. Bandflex bro, not even a Bowflex. Yes, my diet is mind blowing and diet is 90% of it. You are what you eat... If I knew then what I know now I would have been 260 knifed! 
> 
> Which town in MA are you originally from?


I lived near lowell

----------


## BajanBastard

> Who are you & what are your credentials? If that's you in the back double bi your skin looks like it's about 3 inches thick bro? Your screen name should be George Castanza, "if every instinct you have is wrong, the opposite must be right"  "In 10th place from Smoothington... George Castanza"...
> 
> 
> QUESTION: 
> What was wrong with this board last night? When attempting to post something it wouldn't go through and when it did, everything was posted multiple times???


To be honest. You are very immature for a grown man. Unlike you i'm natural and don't need "13 different injectables" and "200 lb neck raises" to attain the bodybuilding goals i seek. You LOOKED good, i think your mind is stuck in a time warp. I guess you still try to do those 200 lb neck raises huh? Your info is incorrect and you can't stand someone calling you out, I don't need credentials to debunk the old wifes tales you believe are facts. You have insulted Carlos, Narkissos and others, bros who, unlike you know what they are doing and will maintain their body for years to come.

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## SVC

> You're not going to gain more respect by bashing other's photos. You have enough hassles here already. Why pick personal fights? Just my .02
> 
> At night I believe the server gets back up. Slows down/halts processing. Only hit the button once...it'll show.



I'm not here to make friends. I'm here to observe the attitude and habits of today's "users". Not pretty so far...

----------


## SVC

> To be honest. You are very immature for a grown man. Unlike you i'm natural and don't need "13 different injectables" and "200 lb neck raises" to attain the bodybuilding goals i seek. You LOOKED good, i think your mind is stuck in a time warp. I guess you still try to do those 200 lb neck raises huh? Your info is incorrect and you can't stand someone calling you out, I don't need credentials to debunk the old wifes tales you believe are facts. You have insulted Carlos, Narkissos and others, bros who, unlike you know what they are doing and will maintain their body for years to come.



Oh, so you're natural? Yet, you get upset when I state that "if you're going to "use" you should use low dosages and avoid toxic orals?

Why is it you all can call me a every name in the book? 

When I question your expertise and the way you look, you're all so hurt?

----------


## SVC

> To be honest. You are very immature for a grown man. Unlike you i'm natural and don't need "13 different injectables" and "200 lb neck raises" to attain the bodybuilding goals i seek. You LOOKED good, i think your mind is stuck in a time warp. I guess you still try to do those 200 lb neck raises huh? Your info is incorrect and you can't stand someone calling you out, I don't need credentials to debunk the old wifes tales you believe are facts. You have insulted Carlos, Narkissos and others, bros who, unlike you know what they are doing and will maintain their body for years to come.



Why have you "supposedly" done so much research on AS if you're natural? Planning to use?

SORRY IF I HURT YOUR FEELINGS AND THE FEELINGS OF OTHERS... I FIGURED SINCE YOU ALL ARE SUCH BALL BUSTERS YOU'D BE ABLE TO TAKE A LITTLE RIBBING BACK, BUT APPARENTLY NOT...

----------


## bignatt

SVC are you from mass?

----------


## LACBodybuilder

> I'M TIRED OF BEING RIGHT


Can't be too tired, because it hasnt happen much.

----------


## Odin

> To be honest. You are very immature for a grown man. Unlike you i'm natural and don't need "13 different injectables" and "200 lb neck raises" to attain the bodybuilding goals i seek. You LOOKED good, i think your mind is stuck in a time warp. I guess you still try to do those 200 lb neck raises huh? Your info is incorrect and you can't stand someone calling you out, I don't need credentials to debunk the old wifes tales you believe are facts. You have insulted Carlos, Narkissos and others, bros who, unlike you know what they are doing and will maintain their body for years to come.


SVC I think his back holds a lot of water, my muscles and skin hold a lot of water too at the moment, It works two ways, 1 bad, 1 good. The bad way is that your not going to look as good. The good way is holding water prevents injuring which I have never had YET! lifting throught the years, Yeah I cannot even remember a problem at all? I can also toss around some pretty respectable weight too. You naturaly have nice thin skin but on the other note you might be more prone to having dry joints with this natural low water retention. Just a thought? I think about your best advice yet everyone overlooked! You said you ate digestive enzemes with every meal, I think that's really important and I have not did it yet. I'm eating so much dam food on my current bulker and the food is not getting broke down. Just the last few days it's preventing me from eating as much as I would like. Hey why don't you write down a tipical routine you did back in the day, like for chest and legs and back. weight, rep's and time inbetween! Also please hold back the flaming if he does post it. So let's hear the works you did too Duran Duran, Judas priest, and Dire straits.

----------


## SVC

[QUOTE=MMA]


> Who are you & what are your credentials? If that's you in the back double bi your skin looks like it's about 3 inches thick bro? Your screen name should be George Castanza, "if every instinct you have is wrong, the opposite must be right"  "In 10th place from Smoothington... George Castanza"...
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> lets compare his physique to yours. no not the physique YOU USED TO HAVE, THE PHYSIQUE U HAVE NOW. you lost the right to argue your "results" when your methods were exposed as ignorant and dangerous. i would rather have his body than yours. and his advice too.


I workout twice a week for 10 minutes on a Bandflex bro. Are we comparing apples to apples? Now that I'm 43 I realize "your body" is just a vehicle to carry your mind. I could care less if I'm jacked now... You can bet your last dollar if I wanted to be I could be... I've wasted enough of my life... I'm not the same guy anymore and I don't want to be. I get way more enjoyment out of helping others avoid the mistakes I've made. For real!

----------


## BajanBastard

> Oh, so you're natural? Yet, you get upset when I state that "if you're going to "use" you should use low dosages and avoid toxic orals?
> 
> Why is it you all can call me a every name in the book? 
> 
> When I question your expertise and the way you look, you're all so hurt?


Show me were i have disrespected in this thread. I stated it was a good move on your part to come and state your side. The point is some of your information is incorrect and you get offended when someone states as such. If someone corrects me on this board i will/do not insult them if i am insure i ask for proof, when i get it i stand corrected. You on the other hand get pissed.

As for your statement about orals you have any data to show me the they are so "toxic"?

I said i do not believe in maga-doseages but 200 mg test per week will not produce as much gains as 400 mg per week. Unless you have a study or two to show me otherwise.

----------


## LACBodybuilder

> Show me were i have disrespected in this thread. I stated it was a good move on your part to come and state your side. The point is some of your information is incorrect and you get offended when someone states as such. If someone corrects me on this board i will/do not insult them if i am insure i ask for proof, when i get it i stand corrected. You on the other hand get pissed.
> 
> As for your statement about orals you have any data to show me the they are so "toxic"?
> 
> I said i do not believe in maga-doseages but 200 mg test per week will not produce as much gains as 400 mg per week. Unless you have a study or two to show me otherwise.


No such studies exist

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> I'm not here to make friends.


That's fine...but please stop trying to make enemies. It's not conducive to anyone's learning.

----------


## BajanBastard

> No such studies exist


Yes they do. SVC has them all.

----------


## SVC

> Show me were i have disrespected in this thread. I stated it was a good move on your part to come and state your side. The point is some of your information is incorrect and you get offended when someone states as such. If someone corrects me on this board i will/do not insult them if i am insure i ask for proof, when i get it i stand corrected. You on the other hand get pissed.
> 
> As for your statement about orals you have any data to show me the they are so "toxic"?
> 
> I said i do not believe in maga-doseages but 200 mg test per week will not produce as much gains as 400 mg per week. Unless you have a study or two to show me otherwise.



If you haven't disrespected me then you're one of the few that hasn't called me an idiot, moron, tool...

You haven't answered all my questions... if you're natural, why are you researching AS? If you are 100% natural than touche' you've got some good mass and you should stay natural...because you've got potential. 

Where are you doing your research? Are you making the same mistakes I did when I believed the late Dan Duchaine? Are you believing something you've read by an author who's also a pusher? Don't believe everything you read bro, just because it's in print doesn't mean it's necessarily true.

----------


## LACBodybuilder

> Yes they do. SVC has them all.


Yeah, your right. They can all be found in SVC's book, "SVC's Encyclapedia of Dousch Bag Steroid Myths, Rumors, and Scaretactics." I think I saw it in the ten cent bin at my local dollar general.

----------


## SVC

> Yes they do. SVC has them all.


See right there. I pay you a compliment and you insult me. 

Why are you only answering 1/4 of my questions????

Why are you researching AS if you're natural?

----------


## SVC

> Yeah, your right. They can all be found in SVC's book, "SVC's Encyclapedia of Dousch Bag Steroid Myths, Rumors, and Scaretactics." I think I saw it in the ten cent bin at my local dollar general.


Encyclopedia of Douche... Scare Tactics 

Spell much?

----------


## JdFlex

> Yeah, your right. They can all be found in SVC's book, "SVC's Encyclapedia of Dousch Bag Steroid Myths, Rumors, and Scaretactics." I think I saw it in the ten cent bin at my local dollar general.


This is such a great thread, don't ruin it with your immature remarks.

----------


## LACBodybuilder

> Encyclopedia of Douche... Scare Tactics 
> 
> Spell much?


Another excellent defensive mechanism. Sorry that I am not taking the time to run spell check and pull out my encyclapedia to type a 2 second response on a thread. C'mon SVC, you can do better than that.

----------


## SVC

> he doesn't know how to spell, but he does know not to do 200lb neck raises. which is more important? the answer is to the right of you. oops, sorry, i forgot you couldn't move your head.
> 
> that was a cheap shot, but you've got to stop being petty about other peoples minor flaws if you don't want them to mention your major ones.


MMA (Minuscule Minor A-hole)

THAT WAS 20 YEARS AGO!... WAKE UP AND SMELL YOUR PISS...

----------


## SVC

> This is such a great thread, don't ruin it with your immature remarks.


I'd like to JD Juice Her! Sorry to immature  :Smilie:

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> he doesn't know how to spell, but he does know not to do 200lb neck raises. which is more important? the answer is to the right of you. oops, sorry, i forgot you couldn't move your head.


 :LOL:

----------


## BajanBastard

> If you haven't disrespected me then you're one of the few that hasn't called me an idiot, moron, tool...
> 
> You haven't answered all my questions... if you're natural, why are you researching AS? If you are 100% natural than touche' you've got some good mass and you should stay natural...because you've got potential. 
> 
> Where are you doing your research? Are you making the same mistakes I did when I believed the late Dan Duchaine? Are you believing something you've read by an author who's also a pusher? Don't believe everything you read bro, just because it's in print doesn't mean it's necessarily true.


I am not 100% natual. I did one cycle in late 2002, it was 75mg trenbolone actate ed and 500mg testosterone enanthate for 6 wks. I have not used since i am gaining well naturally after the cycle due to learning to train and eat properly. Why am i researching? This may come as a surprise but i like reading and learning. I plan to use again. I do my research at PUMED and off of member exp on this board.

----------


## SVC

> I am not 100% natual. I did one cycle in late 2002, it was 75mg trenbolone actate ed and 500mg testosterone enanthate for 6 wks. I have not used since i am gaining well naturally after the cycle due to learning to train and eat properly. Why am i researching? This may come as a surprise but i like reading and learning. I plan to use again. I do my research at PUMED and off of member exp on this board.


I'd like to retract my previous compliment please  :Smilie: 

Don't ever call your self natural if you've done a cycle. Since you have a plethora of knowledge (smell that, that's sarcasm) I'm sure you realize that you retain almost everything you gain from your first cycle. Therefore you have a huge advantage over someone who's lifetime natural. 

You remind me of the guys that used to tell me they're clean because they took their last shot of Deca the night before at midnight...

What is PUMED? Is that getting f**ked up the *ss with plums? Sorry couldn't resist. If nothing less I'll teach you rascals to run spell check...

----------


## SVC

> he does his research BEFORE he injects stuff in his body, not after. thats how we do it on this board.
> 
> you keep saying "i didn't know this would happen". thats why we don't say that very often.


There were no home PCs, no internet, almost no AS info 20 years ago... man am I sick of writing that...

----------


## Odin

SVC your on pace to get to a 100 posts faster than anyone ever!, only 22 more to go and your the winner of a 50cc bottle of test and a 50cc bottle of tren . Dan Duchane is in heaven chearing you on bro.

----------


## SVC

> SVC your on pace to get to a 100 posts faster than anyone ever!, only 22 more to go and your the winner of a 50cc bottle of test and a 50cc bottle of tren. Dan Duchane is in heaven chearing you on bro.


If Duchaine is in heaven the entire system needs revamping  :Smilie:

----------


## Carlos_E

> What is PUMED? Is that getting f**ked up the *ss with plums? Sorry couldn't resist. If nothing less I'll teach you rascals to run spell check...


What is your deal? So far I've seen you be EXTREMELY rude to only Big k.l.g and Narkissos when neither have been extremely rude to you. And you called me out asking who am I and what have I done. It makes me wonder what it is we all have in common that bothers you so much.

----------


## SVC

> 


And SVC is typing it again... 20 YEARS AGO MBH... 

Why do I envision many of you defending what you're doing today 20 years from now...?

----------


## DEVLDOG

> even if it took 10 times as long to research, shouldn't you have put the time in b4 you put the needle in?
> 
> and a lot of issues were caused by bad/dangerous lifting program, which did have a lot of literature available then. i'm sure people told you, u just didn't listen. it wasn't that the info wasn't out there, it was that u didn't listen to it.


i'll vouch fo him bro,i started juicing in 1987,theres was no way of getting info other then a croked doctor who knew nothing and your gym buddies who didnt know anymore then the next guy.it was all trial and error and believe me there was alot of error.if you haven't been there i suggest you hold your comments about the research...**** i remember when atari computers came out,there was no internet.and good luck finding good info in a book

----------


## BajanBastard

> See right there. I pay you a compliment and you insult me. 
> 
> Why are you only answering 1/4 of my questions????
> 
> Why are you researching AS if you're natural?


I answered your question. I did not insult you but you are acting like ALL your statement are right, that is why i made that JOKE.

----------


## johnsomebody

Hey would you guys all chill out a little? This was pretty interesting originally and now it's just turning into a hissy fight among a small group of people, none of whom represent AR any more than anyone else does.

We all see the "before and after" pix and they're pretty cool but we never see the "after and after" pix, which means we never get the whole picture. SVC is one extreme example of that, and hopefully a rare case. He'd like to keep it rare and should be commended for trying to do that, in my opinion, not nitpicked to death over whether HCG should be taken throughout or at end or starting mid cycle. There are plenty of excellent posts up explaining why it's best throughout and Swale's a big advocate of it. It's what I do myself because I think it works best. Others choose to do it differently. We can debate about what's best but jumping all over someone over debatable points is unfair and doesn't represent AR very well.

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

Hmmm...we have a 43 year old man on this board chatting with 20 year old guys. What is with that!? Kind of sick/sad really. At 43 years old I would truly hope that I wouldn't be sitting on an internet chat room arguing with people half my age. Not only arguing...but fully knowing that he's not going to change anyone's opinions with his 20 year old outdated knowledge.

Maybe he's on here hoping to pick up a young twink. Is that his motive? Hoping some twink would like some companionship with an older hairy bear.

----------


## BajanBastard

> I'd like to retract my previous compliment please 
> 
> Don't ever call your self natural if you've done a cycle. Since you have a plethora of knowledge (smell that, that's sarcasm) I'm sure you realize that you retain almost everything you gain from your first cycle. Therefore you have a huge advantage over someone who's lifetime natural.  
> You remind me of the guys that used to tell me they're clean because they took their last shot of Deca the night before at midnight...
> 
> What is PUMED? Is that getting f**ked up the *ss with plums? Sorry couldn't resist. If nothing less I'll teach you rascals to run spell check...


You care to tell us why you always keep your gains from your first cycle? You talk but i have yet to see proof to back up your claims. PubMed is what i meant. I care little for what you have to say about my body, compliment or insult. In the end it will not matter. I have been lifting for 4 years now, 1 short low dose cycle and i'm proud of what i have gained thus far. I know i have to lower my BF% but that will come when i get to that stage. I have my goals all planned out. When it is all said and done i'll have and keep the body i want. Can not say the same for you though. I see you attack those who question you and praise those who kiss your ass, good work.

----------


## Decakur

GUYS!!!! Keep the voice down... dont hate eachother  :Don't know:   :Don't know:   :Don't know:   :Don't know:   :Don't know:

----------


## Odin

> Hmmm...we have a 43 year old man on this board chatting with 20 year old guys. What is with that!? Kind of sick/sad really. At 43 years old I would truly hope that I wouldn't be sitting on an internet chat room arguing with people half my age. Not only arguing...but fully knowing that he's not going to change anyone's opinions with his 20 year old outdated knowledge.
> 
> Maybe he's on here hoping to pick up a young twink. Is that his motive? Hoping some twink would like some companionship with an older hairy bear.


Well the reason I think he jumped on the thread was cause he's aggresive and has an ego like a lot of us do. The fire that burns in him when he see's us talking smack and laughing at him, is the same fire that made him be built the way he was, maybe even more than the juice. Personally I like this thread and its gave me great motivation in the weight room the last few days. A lot of his advice is crappy but he did come from the old school were things were harder core. Fighting did not go to court, and people tried to look better unlike this skinny punks of today. Thing that REALLY pissed me off most about the video was the fact that those little punks in the class room think their more respected in today's age then built people are. If I were in that class room and 1 punk talked sh*t I would ram his head through the *****n chalk board. See SVC people who are muscular today are looked down on, back in your day they were praised. I mean look, bodybuilders are bad in bed, bodybuilders=small dicks, Muscles-dumb, Muscles=Gross!!?? Little punks on meth are looked up to more than us and it's sad. Hell were getting below tranny's for f*ck sake!

----------


## BDTR

You guys are going to hate me... but ive put a lot more than 200 lbs on my old head harnness with the chains. Of course that was quite some time ago, so dont knock him too bad, because ill go hide and cry.

By the way, stop the flaming there will be bannings.

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> You guys are going to hate me... but ive put a lot more than 200 lbs on my old head harnness with the chains. Of course that was quite some time ago, so dont knock him too bad, because ill go hide and cry.
> 
> By the way, stop the flaming there will be bannings.


You can't go and hide...you're Santa!!  :Big Grin:  Think of the children!!  :Big Grin:

----------


## 1morerep

b4 that guy starts to talk to his audience i hope he tells them this is what happened when he ABUSED steriods not when he used them. theres a difference.

----------


## Decakur

> b4 that guy starts to talk to his audience i hope he tells them this is what happened when he ABUSED steriods not when he used them. theres a difference.


you have right bro..

----------


## squatster

this thred is going down hill. Alot of the info that I have seen is Like Sv? said. Old **** from the Dan duchane and the other old hand books. Most of the books out there are ****. I wish I could have saved some threds from theanaboliczone and the other boards out there. Got to get rid of all the insults and get some real modern resurch out here. once I pollish off this dozen crispy creams I will get back to this after I get a little sun to

----------


## johnsomebody

> Hmmm...we have a 43 year old man on this board chatting with 20 year old guys. What is with that!? Kind of sick/sad really. At 43 years old I would truly hope that I wouldn't be sitting on an internet chat room arguing with people half my age. Not only arguing...but fully knowing that he's not going to change anyone's opinions with his 20 year old outdated knowledge.
> 
> Maybe he's on here hoping to pick up a young twink. Is that his motive? Hoping some twink would like some companionship with an older hairy bear.


Well, that's gotta be one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen at AR, whoever he's referring to.

----------


## Carlos_E

> once I pollish off this dozen crispy creams I will get back to this


Enjoy your fat rings.  :LOL:

----------


## JdFlex

> b4 that guy starts to talk to his audience i hope he tells them this is what happened when he ABUSED steriods not when he used them. theres a difference.


There is no way to tell teenagers there's a difference. He messed himself up on steroids , now he's talking to teenagers about the negative effects. I think its commendable. You may not agree with his approach, but you have to agree with his motives.

----------


## hardgainer1

Everything in moderation, obviously abusing anything to that extent will harm you

----------


## BajanBastard

> There is no way to tell teenagers there's a difference. He messed himself up on steroids, now he's talking to teenagers about the negative effects. I think its commendable. You may not agree with his approach, but you have to agree with his motives.


So would you drive at 110 mph, in pouring rain with slick tires, crash then tell people not to drive cause it is "bad" for you? 

My point is, he comes to a site where most of us are better educated on the issues of steriod use because of books, internet etc. Yet when we refuse to swollow his outdated 20 year old info. He get pissed and starts to fling mud. Yup a true role model  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## BUYLONGTERM

> You guys are going to hate me... but ive put a lot more than 200 lbs on my old head harnness with the chains. Of course that was quite some time ago, so dont knock him too bad, because ill go hide and cry.
> 
> By the way, stop the flaming there will be bannings.


Glad you stepped in, and it's always to to hear from you!! This thread is getting ridiculous. Remember: *THERE IS A NO FLAMING POLICY ON AR.* 

Lets act like adults for christ sake!

BLT

----------


## Decakur

> Glad you stepped in, and it's always to to hear from you!! This thread is getting ridiculous. Remember: *THERE IS A NO FLAMING POLICY ON AR.* 
> 
> Lets act like adults for christ sake!


AGREE, can we stay to the Topic, or at LEAST talk about SVC ****ing
big cycels, or his past life. man...

----------


## AnabolicRick

I wonder where his lecture was at. Most likely NOT at a maxmuscle store

----------


## Kato

MBH.....don't act like their is not other 43 year olds on the board! I"m not 43. 


SVC, 20 yrs ago was a long time. I wish ar and the internet would have been around for you! Would have made ur life much easier.

I get a kick out of these guys who are hatin on you! Someone puts ur link on this board, sends the link to you, so you decided to defend urself! As many a man would do! 

I honestly think that many of these haters are jealous of both the way you used to look and the way you look now! I'm jealous. Your pic where you looked like a pro.....95% of the bros on the board would love to look like that!

Also some of these clowns that are hatin on you would of done the exact same sh1t you did and would not have thought twice about it. And they know it, but would never admit to it! But AR is here as well as various boards so many of these haters think they got AS (from top to bottom) on lock!


Good luck!

----------


## SVC

> Hmmm...we have a 43 year old man on this board chatting with 20 year old guys. What is with that!? Kind of sick/sad really. At 43 years old I would truly hope that I wouldn't be sitting on an internet chat room arguing with people half my age. Not only arguing...but fully knowing that he's not going to change anyone's opinions with his 20 year old outdated knowledge.
> 
> Maybe he's on here hoping to pick up a young twink. Is that his motive? Hoping some twink would like some companionship with an older hairy bear.


OK just got back from shopping, did I miss anything?


Hmmm... ever notice that the dude that's always accusing others of being gay is actually the one who's light in the loafers? (e.g. the movie American Beauty...) 

I thought I told you MBH (Mini Balls Hustler) I'm gathering info which I will use on the SVC DVD to demonstrate the mind set of today's users. (so far about even with crack whores).

----------


## BigMike J

> OK just got back from shopping, did I miss anything?
> 
> 
> Hmmm... ever notice that the dude that's always accusing others of being gay is actually the one who's light in the loafers? (e.g. the movie American Beauty...) 
> 
> I thought I told you MBH (Mini Balls Hustler) I'm gathering info which I will use on the SVC DVD to demonstrate the mind set of today's users. (so far about even with crack whores).


hahaha..

time to lock this thread.

----------


## BajanBastard

> OK just got back from shopping, did I miss anything?
> 
> 
> Hmmm... ever notice that the dude that's always accusing others of being gay is actually the one who's light in the loafers? (e.g. the movie American Beauty...) 
> 
> I thought I told you MBH (Mini Balls Hustler) I'm gathering info which I will use on the SVC DVD to demonstrate the mind set of today's users. (so far about even with crack whores).


You know what? If you would stop attacking those who are in disagreement with you, you would not be such a "bad" guy. You are here to analyze the mind set of today users yet you an older and wiser person not setting an example by bashing those who don't brown nose to you.

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

Regardless if it was 20 years ago or not...it wasn't the AS that did the damage...it was the weight routine. Why is this being argued anymore!? This should be the focus of the DVD...safe and sensible lifting.

Over and out.

----------


## SVC

> MBH.....don't act like their is not other 43 year olds on the board! I"m not 43. 
> 
> 
> SVC, 20 yrs ago was a long time. I wish ar and the internet would have been around for you! Would have made ur life much easier.
> 
> I get a kick out of these guys who are hatin on you! Someone puts ur link on this board, sends the link to you, so you decided to defend urself! As many a man would do! 
> 
> I honestly think that many of these haters are jealous of both the way you used to look and the way you look now! I'm jealous. Your pic where you looked like a pro.....95% of the bros on the board would love to look like that!
> 
> ...



Thanks man, after all the sh1t I've been through their meaningless, incoherent words mean less than zero...

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> Thanks man, after all the sh1t I've been through their meaningless, incoherent words mean less than zero...


So that's why you have 82 posts on this board!? Obviously it means something or you wouldn't be here day and night.

Now I'm over and out.  :Big Grin:

----------


## SVC

> So that's why you have 82 posts on this board!? Obviously it means something or you wouldn't be here day and night.
> 
> Now I'm over and out.



Told you man, it's all research. Compare the comments from AR to Ironage.

Right out of the gate you guys came off like disrespectful punks. Later

http://ironage.us/yabbse/index.php?topic=8386.0

----------


## SVC

> So that's why you have 82 posts on this board!? Obviously it means something or you wouldn't be here day and night.
> 
> Now I'm over and out.


Money Boss Hustla (his first post for this thread)
Plain and simple...the guy wasn't smart. 13 compounds at once!? How much of each compound? How long did he run 17aa orals for? Did he ever do a PCT? How long did he cycle for? Ever take proper amounts of time off. Too many variables.

Doing neck raises with 200 pounds!? Steroids didn't hurt him...his own stupidity did!!!

I hate how stupid people play the victim.

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> Money Boss Hustla (his first post for this thread)
> Plain and simple...the guy wasn't smart. 13 compounds at once!? How much of each compound? How long did he run 17aa orals for? Did he ever do a PCT? How long did he cycle for? Ever take proper amounts of time off. Too many variables.
> 
> Doing neck raises with 200 pounds!? Steroids didn't hurt him...his own stupidity did!!!
> 
> I hate how stupid people play the victim.


Smart guy that MBH.  :Big Grin:

----------


## SVC

> Smart guy that MBH.


I guess you've gotta blow your own horn when no one else will, huh?

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> I guess you've gotta blow your own horn when no one else will, huh?


I already told you in PM's...I don't swing that way!!  :LOL:

----------


## BDTR

SVC, one more flame here and you're gone. This is going too far.

----------


## BajanBastard

> SVC, one more flame here and you're gone. This is going too far.


He has his list, he checking it twice........he's gonna find out who's naughty or nice!!

----------


## SVC

> SVC, one more flame here and you're gone. This is going too far.


I'm a rookie... this is the first message board I've ever been on in my life... what is a flame? Seriously?

----------


## BajanBastard

> I'm a rookie... this is the first message board I've ever been on in my life... what is a flame? Seriously?


One of the many insults you have thrown out. Insult = flame.

----------


## SVC

> One of the many insults you have thrown out. Insult = flame.


Was he tallying all the insults others threw at me? Probably didn't have enough digits on the calculator...

----------


## GetinBig

> Was he tallying all the insults others threw at me? Probably didn't have enough digits on the calculator...



 :Welcome:  
 :Welcome:

----------


## SVC

> 


Well fellows, it's been real and it's been fun but it hasn't always been real fun...

Seriously, Happy Holidays & Good Luck in the Future  :Smilie:

----------


## BajanBastard

> Was he tallying all the insults others threw at me? Probably didn't have enough digits on the calculator...


Hey man you are the one who started insulting peoples pictures. I recommend you start posting your say in other threads, share your exp with the board. If you post something that is inaccurate most likely someone will say something about it usually in a respectful manner..........try not to get pissed as you seem to usually do.

----------


## johnsomebody

> Hey man you are the one who started insulting peoples pictures. I recommend you start posting your say in other threads, share your exp with the board. If you post something that is inaccurate most likely someone will say something about it usually in a respectful manner..........try not to get pissed as you seem to usually do.


I agree.
Hey SVC, if you're still around, I think it would be great if you would post your pics along with your story over on the Member's Photos section. I think your story would be seen by a lot of people there.

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> It's an awesome board Todd. I would truly hope that you can now respect the amount of info on here...and possibly let people who are determined to use AS know about AR and its awesome members. I mean if they have their mind set and you cannot change it...why not direct them to the helping hand of AR. I know it's against your beliefs...but IMHO turning your back to them could potentially cause more harm than good.


Bringing it back to the forefront.

----------


## spooledup

Agreed. SVC was definitely disrespected first. 

hater hypocrits

merry Xmas  :Strong Smiley:   :Welcome:

----------


## LACBodybuilder

Now that things have calmed down, I say that if SVC insists on giving his anti-steroid speeches he atleast sticks around here and educates himself more. If he quits being so one minded and opens himself up to learn, he could truly become a great and educated speaker.

----------


## squatster

no one ever noticed tat he is an ND Degree and Doctor of Natural med's. This dude is a lot smarter then every one thinks. I agree- I wish he would stick around and pass on some noladge and answer some of these posts here. I my self am tring to get a hold of some of the vets from some other boards to look over some of the facts here in these threds. These guys are sharp as hell. I think every one would be serprised how smart this guy SVC is. He know's his ****. Let's see if I can find them. This will be cool. You guys will love these guys- Thay are full of noladge. I wish I could help a little more but- with Cristmass and I can only get on here late at knight and early in the morning- I am not to sharp at those times. I like this board though - ful of energy.
Could some one please tell me how to post a new thred??????
I have so many questions and good debates for threds. Help me out here.
By the way the crispy creams where great . Ate the dozen heated in the microwave with butter on them. Did not feel good though. I usealy diet year round exept at Cristmas and turkey day

----------


## LACBodybuilder

I agree that SVC is probably very smart. he just has such a one track mind that he is unable to except new information that is correct. He insists that his view is right and that it is the only right view, when infact many people have put up valid points. People have to be willing to except that they are wrong, and why they may be smart, everyone still has much to learn.

----------


## tdawg

SVC maybe u wouldnt be bitter if u ran your cycles better and kept size like other smart As users

----------


## MER

Ok bros I'm sorry to start outta nowhere as I've only been reading and not commenting but I noticed this thread got huge and in the beggining it seemed to be a interesting thread and now its a bashing thread. I'm sure SVC can bring some knowledge to the table. You've all gotten defensive and childish and this board isn't for that. Instead of pointing fingers lets find out more about him. I mean, the guy looked great in his time, I'm sure there are some things he's done wrong but haven't we all? Noones perfect and you learn from your mistakes. 
With that being said
SVC what do you do for a living now bro? I'm guessing your past kinda sucked up alot of time/energy from you.

----------


## KGBnine

> SVC maybe u wouldnt be bitter if u ran your cycles better and kept size like other smart As users


I don't think he's bitter. He's def. lived and learned and I think it would be great of he stuck around because he has a lot of experience.

----------


## bignatt

Once again ill say that there arent many who had reached the stature of his pysique regardless of what he did to get there i give him credit

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> Once again ill say that there arent many who had reached the stature of his pysique regardless of what he did to get there i give him credit


I agree. I will give him credit for his physique. Great genetics.

A little too preachy for me...but everyone's different and that's what makes the world go around.

----------


## mass junkie

You guys all handled yourselves very well........great thread

----------


## *Narkissos*

> I noticed this thread got huge and in the beggining it seemed to be a interesting thread and now its a bashing thread. 
> 
> You've all gotten defensive and childish and this board isn't for that.


Obviously you missed a a couple hundred posts....

----------


## IronAdam

Nothing good has or will come of this thread. Just a bunch of sh*t talking. Why not lock it and end the nonsense?  :Don't know:

----------


## Decakur

yeah man as a thread starter i dont want this threat to be closed.
just keep the BS down and dont hate eatchother  :Strong Smiley:

----------


## Odin

> You guys all handled yourselves very well........great thread


I agree, it's a very good thread. Threads with the much controvery and people, keep you on toes were you do your best thinking, and learning. It sure beats a thread were you have 100 people agreeing on something every already knows anyway. In fact I would love if SVC called everyone out on their build and pic's and we through our biggest ripped member's pic's at him for great motivation for everyone, I myself am a couple months off of looking the way I want too.

----------


## squatster

for pic's I am waiting for new ones for the junior USA pics. I will post old ones if you guys would tell me how and let me know the way to post new threds so I can start some good debates. I like this place.

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## Carlos_E

> for pic's I am waiting for new ones for the junior USA pics. I will post old ones if you guys would tell me how and let me know the way to post new threds so I can start some good debates. I like this place.


What's your name? http://www.graphicmuscle.com/Results.aspx has a database of contest results and pictures from Junior Nationals and Nationals. Your picture should be on there if you did the show.

What weight class are you? I should be doing Junior Nationals and possibly Junior USAs in 2005.

----------


## Ntpadude

> ML you mean MG? SO your saying a 35 year old man Injecting a gram will have the same test level as a natural 18-24 year old??


Sorry, I am brain dead with a cold while loaded on testosterone ... yes it is rather uncomfortable to have a cold while on cycle. My spelling lately has been like the gutter lately. Either that or maybe it is true like the lesbians say, when the man's muscles get bigger the brain gets smaller. Not to mention my quads are just about one big scar tissue but I think its because this gear I am on irritates the crap out the muscles... my quads look like the best developed muscle in my body but its actually because they are irritated, sore and swollen. I am going to have to learn out to do self glute shots because these quads have been in agony since I started this cycle... sorry I am sort of in a roid raged mood having this cold, sore lumpy quads and I gave it a 2 hour mega intense workout at the gym today, add to it the M-1-T lethargy is ever so kicking in today, oh happy joy joy, wife wants me to go on all night Christmas shopping and walk 37 miles thru super phucking walmart and then the mall because my Christmas bonus came late and yesterday.

----------


## Ntpadude

> Well fellows, it's been real and it's been fun but it hasn't always been real fun...
> 
> Seriously, Happy Holidays & Good Luck in the Future


Well admit it. Werent you once a young punk that no one could tell you not to do steroids and you shot everything you could get your hands on anyways. These kids are no different then you were yourself. No older 40 something man could tell you not to do steroids in your day anymore then these kids are going to listen to you in their days. They are going to have to make their own mistakes unfortunately. 

You know a lot of drug treatment centers refuse to accept patients under the age of 29 because you cant tell these kids nothing and the 99% failure rates of this age group. They do their own thing, treatment is a waste of time and effort for most under 29.

----------


## Odin

> Sorry, I am brain dead with a cold while loaded on testosterone... yes it is rather uncomfortable to have a cold while on cycle. My spelling lately has been like the gutter lately. Either that or maybe it is true like the lesbians say, when the man's muscles get bigger the brain gets smaller. Not to mention my quads are just about one big scar tissue but I think its because this gear I am on irritates the crap out the muscles... my quads look like the best developed muscle in my body but its actually because they are irritated, sore and swollen. I am going to have to learn out to do self glute shots because these quads have been in agony since I started this cycle... sorry I am sort of in a roid raged mood having this cold, sore lumpy quads and I gave it a 2 hour mega intense workout at the gym today, add to it the M-1-T lethargy is ever so kicking in today, oh happy joy joy, wife wants me to go on all night Christmas shopping and walk 37 miles thru super phucking walmart and then the mall because my Christmas bonus came late and yesterday.


I hear your bro, my spelling going to hell too, but hey the lifts are going up.lol Somtimes I wonder if all the good spellers even lift? Well I sure feel sorry for you going shopping with all the puke balls hanging out in the walmart these days. Go shopping late enough and some of them f#ckers look like aliens from other plants. Wear a tight shirt and stare em' down, oo and hope you get better.  :Smilie:

----------


## Ntpadude

> Clomid is a S.E.R.M that boosts natural hormonal output. Using it on cycle would have a anti-estrogenic effect, however it is pointless to use it for its HPTA stimulating effect while a high amount of androgens will remains in ones body. The effect it canceled out. Oh your oral anabolics heptatoxicity is overrated.


I personally know a 22 year old on the liver transplant list because he thought he could do dbols for 6 months straight with no break... he didnt even make it the full 6 months before skin started yellowing from liver disease.

I think some people have more resistence to liver damage then others. Thats why some drunks drop dead at age of 32 from liver sorosis and others drink just as much all the way until age of 70. Do you know how much YOUR liver will take before it goes out?

----------


## squatster

Carlos-Thanks for the web address I don't want any one to know who I am, There are just to many laws now bro, with the 2004 steriod act in affect theis January. Hope people understand. I will post the pics up of old shows with no face and no number on me. So I acn stay safe. Like I said if I kick ass at the junior usa this year, I will post as many as possable. I goofed my last show by driveing 16 hours to the show and not eating all my food. and then not sleeping the night becouse I was so exited on how I looked sredded and full, I ended up loosing 6 pounds from 12: friday night to Satat (:00 weigh ins) 
I used to do light heavy and now just do middle weight- look better at that- don't know what weight I will do this Show
gotta eat

----------


## Odin

> That or NL...


Nano Liters? I guess I'm not sure what your saying??

----------


## crackle

> he doesn't know how to spell, but he does know not to do 200lb neck raises. which is more important? *the answer is to the right of you. oops, sorry, i forgot you couldn't move your head.*
> that was a cheap shot, but you've got to stop being petty about other peoples minor flaws if you don't want them to mention your major ones.


Fvcked up bro...not cool.

----------


## Ntpadude

> Nano Liters? I guess I'm not sure what your saying??


I dont either... I'll get back with you on what I meant once I get this dag gum shopping done... I just threw a glass and broke it because my wife is riding my back and I feel like crap...

----------


## Odin

> I dont either... I'll get back with you on what I meant once I get this dag gum shopping done... I just threw a glass and broke it because my wife is riding my back and I feel like crap...


Dam, when you get back could you post what your running? Hopefully not cheque drops cause that would not make for a cool christmas.

----------


## Decakur

merry xmas everyone in the thread  :Welcome:

----------


## Decakur

that's just amazing..

----------


## Decakur

> that's just amazing..


  :Welcome:   :Welcome:

----------


## craneboy

this dude just couldn't hang, thats all

----------


## Decakur

> this dude just couldn't hang, thats all


amazing... mrrry Xmas

----------


## Decakur

Bro's wondering if SVC is coming back? MAybe on x-mas vacation.

I want to as him a few more queistions..

----------


## MER

Chances are he will be back

----------


## Decakur

Thats just amazing..

----------


## KGBnine

> Thats just amazing..


  :Hmmmm:

----------


## LACBodybuilder

I believe this thread now holds the record for most responses. Im proud to be number 454.

----------


## KGBnine

> I believe this thread now holds the record for most responses. Im pround to be number 454.


naw, I've seen bigger, unless this one keeps going  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## LACBodybuilder

No, I checked, this was the most, followed by "Da Bull's Ban" with 442 Responses. So this holds the record in the Anabolic Discussion forum.

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## KGBnine

> No, I checked, this was the most, followed by "Da Bull's Ban" with 442 Responses. So this holds the record in the Anabolic Discussion forum.


Yeah thats the one I was thinking of b/c my postcount soared due to that thread  :Big Grin:

----------


## LACBodybuilder

> Yeah thats the one I was thinking of b/c my postcount soared due to that thread


My computer crashed during that time period or else I would probably be a senior member because of that thread. I remember the day I came back and saw that. I was pissed to say the least. On a side not I think we have officially hi-jacked this thread, so... What's up aXe? How's your christmas going?  :Big Grin:  I think this should now become the official small talk thread of the Anabolic Board.

----------


## KGBnine

> My computer crashed during that time period or else I would probably be a senior member because of that thread. I remember the day I came back and saw that. I was pissed to say the least. On a side not I think we have officially hi-jacked this thread, so... What's up aXe? How's your christmas going?  I think this should now become the official small talk thread of the Anabolic Board.



lol yeah man. This thread is slowly dying so we better keep it to the top. It's going good. And you?

----------


## LACBodybuilder

> lol yeah man. This thread is slowly dying so we better keep it to the top. It's going good. And you?


Mines going just great, thanks for asking. I'm looking forward to starting my next cycle once the new year rolls around. I'm thinking I'm going to go with
Test E 500mg/wk 1-15
EQ 400mg/wk 1-14
Tren E 500mg/wk 1-10
Nolva 20mg throughout
B6 600mg throughout
L-Dex .5mg throughout
Normal PCT

What do you think?

----------


## BajanBastard

Watch it guys, if this thread becomes a whore house it may get locked or deleted. LAC nice cycle bro. That's alot of B6 bro 200mg should be fine, 10mg nolva is ok IMO.

----------


## LACBodybuilder

> Watch it guys, if this thread becomes a whore house it may get locked or deleted. LAC nice cycle bro. That's alot of B6 bro 200mg should be fine, 10mg nolva is ok IMO.


Yeah, i am very gyno prone though, so I run the 20 as a precautionary measure.

----------


## Decakur

That's just amazing bro's.. Keep up the good work.  :Welcome:   :Welcome:

----------


## SVC

> Bro's wondering if SVC is coming back? MAybe on x-mas vacation.
> 
> I want to as him a few more queistions..



Had to take some time away to get some work done...

What are your questions Decakar?

----------


## dzlx

> This guy's story is totally messed up, 1. 3 cycles would not have made that big of a jump from the last natural picure to the other one unless they were really long cycles. Second my joint's feel better than ever while I'm on because of water retention? How the hell could he be having so many problems. Steroids do nothing to dull pain at all unless you consider the anti-inflamitory effect which would help heal if anything. Hell, i would not be supprised if that were his twin brother who did get jacked up, and he needed some money for his drinking habit so he spruced up this F*cked up story for a bottle of cheap wine



Agreed ! The moast damage to my joints was made during my non juicing stage. And i have a friend in my gym that developed heart disease, but not from steroids as everyone thinks ! What they dont know is that he was taking cocain, ephedrine, LSD, etc. He couldent go to sleep without 5mg of xanax and wake up without amphetamine, sometimes he would eaven doo ketamine (dont ask me why) !! And now everyone said look what steroids did to that poor guy ?? lol !

----------


## dzlx

> This guy's story is totally messed up, 1. 3 cycles would not have made that big of a jump from the last natural picure to the other one unless they were really long cycles. Second my joint's feel better than ever while I'm on because of water retention? How the hell could he be having so many problems. Steroids do nothing to dull pain at all unless you consider the anti-inflamitory effect which would help heal if anything. Hell, i would not be supprised if that were his twin brother who did get jacked up, and he needed some money for his drinking habit so he spruced up this F*cked up story for a bottle of cheap wine



Agreed ! The moast damage to my joints was made during my non juicing stage. And i have a friend in my gym that developed heart disease, but not from steroids as everyone thinks ! What they dont know is that he was taking cocain, ephedrine, LSD, etc. He couldent go to sleep without 5mg of xanax and wake up without amphetamine, sometimes he would eaven doo ketamine (dont ask me why) !! And now everyone said look what steroids did to that poor guy ?? lol !

----------


## dzlx

> This guy's story is totally messed up, 1. 3 cycles would not have made that big of a jump from the last natural picure to the other one unless they were really long cycles. Second my joint's feel better than ever while I'm on because of water retention? How the hell could he be having so many problems. Steroids do nothing to dull pain at all unless you consider the anti-inflamitory effect which would help heal if anything. Hell, i would not be supprised if that were his twin brother who did get jacked up, and he needed some money for his drinking habit so he spruced up this F*cked up story for a bottle of cheap wine



Agreed ! The moast damage to my joints was made during my non juicing stage. And i have a friend in my gym that developed heart disease, but not from steroids as everyone thinks ! What they dont know is that he was taking cocain, ephedrine, LSD, etc. He couldent go to sleep without 5mg of xanax and wake up without amphetamine, sometimes he would eaven doo ketamine (dont ask me why) !! And now everyone said look what steroids did to that poor guy ?? lol !

----------


## Decakur

> Had to take some time away to get some work done...
> 
> What are your questions Decakar?


What do you have to say about "Odin's" quote in this thread?

----------


## Decakur

That's Just Amazing..

----------


## SVC

> What do you have to say about "Odin's" quote in this thread?


I can assure you it was me in every photo, I don't have a twin brother. 

I packed on muscle extremely rapidly during each of my 3 cycles. The reasons for this are:
1) I trained with lots of intensity for 4 years naturally prior to taking AS.
2) I increased my intensity by 10 fold when I started cycling.
3) I trained hard between cycles (some guys stop training all together when they're off).
4) I went off for as long as I was on. (i.e. 6 on 6 off...)

I was in pain while I was on and even more pain when I was off.

----------


## bignatt

SVC whereabouts in boston were you from?

----------


## SVC

> SVC whereabouts in boston were you from?



CAMBRIDGE

----------


## bignatt

> CAMBRIDGE


Cool you still living in mass?

----------


## SVC

> SVC whereabouts in boston were you from?


I still can't believe the Pats won 2 Super Bowls & the Sox won the Series!

You should state that you're a former MassSwole not MassHole  :Smilie:

----------


## bignatt

> I still can't believe the Pats won 2 Super Bowls & the Sox won the Series!
> 
> You should state that you're a former MassSwole not MassHole


HAHAHA thats a good idea lol

----------


## SVC

> Cool you still living in mass?


No. I can't disclose my location now that so many AS users want to lynch me and put me out of my misery...  :Smilie:

----------


## BajanBastard

> No. I can't disclose my location now that so many AS users want to lynch me and put me out of my misery...


You dared to speak of the holy drugs in a negative light, you will pay heretic!  :Devil Grin:  Anyway i think it would be a great idea for you to post your exp in other threads.

----------


## SVC

> You dared to speak of the holy drugs in a negative light, you will pay heretic!  Anyway i think it would be a great idea for you to post your exp in other threads.


Which site would you recommend? Which are the most popular? Thanks.

----------


## KINGKONG

> Which site would you recommend? Which are the most popular? Thanks.


This site...I trhink what he's saying is that,it's we can tell you know your ****...Just use that expertice for other threads instead of this one...
I for one would like to have you answering questions and making contributions here...I think after this tread everybody will remember you as that guy that was real big and lean....That injured himself...That and your inside knowledge willl keep me reading your threads...
peace

----------


## bignatt

I agree with kingpin i would also like to have you keep posting on this board i think you have some pretty good insight

----------


## SVC

I've tried to answer all of your questions. If possible, I'd appreciate it if you could answer the following (email me: [email protected] or send me a private message in here or post your answers. 

1) How long did you train naturally prior to taking AS?
2) What were the main reasons you started using AS?
3) How old were you when you started using AS?
4) Were you aware that you keep growing in height until you're 23 and that taking steroids prior can stunt your growth and lead to other problems down the road prior to starting your first cycle?
5) Do you experience any side effects while you're on AS? (i.e. acne, hair loss, oily skin, increased blood pressure, heart arrhythmia, joint pain, mood swings, elevation in cholesterol, liver enzyme elevation...)
6) Do you personally know anyone who has experienced severe side effects? If so, what were their side effects?
7) Do your parents know you're using AS? Have they asked if you were?
8) Did you research AS prior to starting your first cycle? If so, where did you do this research (where did you get your information?)
9) Did you purchase your AS on the black market? If so, how can you be sure it was real and how can you be sure of the sterility of it?
10) If you've used TREN or FINAJECT did you make your own?
11) How long do you go off AS between cycles?
12) Where do you inject yourself? (i.e. glutes, quads, shoulders...)
13) Have you ever used synthol to temporarily enlarge your muscles? If so, how much oil did you inject and where?

----------


## SVC

> I agree with kingpin i would also like to have you keep posting on this board i think you have some pretty good insight


cool, thanks

----------


## KINGKONG

> I've tried to answer all of your questions. If possible, I'd appreciate it if you could answer the following (email me: [email protected] or send me a private message in here or post your answers. 
> 
> 1) How long did you train naturally prior to taking AS?
> 2) What were the main reasons you started using AS?
> 3) How old were you when you started using AS?
> 4) Were you aware that you keep growing in height until you're 23 and that taking steroids prior can stunt your growth and lead to other problems down the road prior to starting your first cycle?
> 5) Do you experience any side effects while you're on AS? (i.e. acne, hair loss, oily skin, increased blood pressure, heart arrhythmia, joint pain, mood swings, elevation in cholesterol, liver enzyme elevation...)
> 6) Do you personally know anyone who has experienced severe side effects? If so, what were their side effects?
> 7) Do your parents know you're using AS? Have they asked if you were?
> ...


just finished your survey good luck with what your doing...

----------


## SVC

> just finished your survey good luck with what your doing...


thanks man

----------


## IronAdam

> thanks man


SVC, I've got a question for you. And I apologize if it was asked already. I've tried to keep up on the thread, but I'm sure I missed some of it. 

Anyway, what did your diet look like while you were on cycle? You packed on some serious size between your natural and juiced pics.

Another thing, what are your current stats...in the last natural pic. And have you ever thought about using steroids again, now that you know so much more about them. You can PM me if you'd like.

Thanks

----------


## GMuscle

This is a huge thread....... I have been trying to read and catch up. How tall are you SVC? What did you weigh at your largest? And guys..... nobody knows it all it seems that this guy has been trying to answer the best he can..... and the link to his site was interesting. He knows and admits he did not know much about what he was doing back then and we all know we have way more resources for answers now. I don't take anything to heart without researching it first and asking tons of questions. There are hundreds of people out there giving advice on things they have not experienced. If I were a heavy drinker I would most likely seek the advice of an ex-drinker to help fix my problems than a kid fresh out of school who rarely ever drank himself. SVC is a good example of what things used to be and can answer some questions that may help some of the heavy AS users on the board. We all know that playing with your hormones is not a safe practice but we do what we do for our own reasons and we will all get to deal with our own conseqences in due time. Everything and every choice carries its price.

----------


## KINGKONG

> This is a huge thread....... I have been trying to read and catch up. How tall are you SVC? What did you weigh at your largest? And guys..... nobody knows it all it seems that this guy has been trying to answer the best he can..... and the link to his site was interesting. He knows and admits he did not know much about what he was doing back then and we all know we have way more resources for answers now. I don't take anything to heart without researching it first and asking tons of questions. There are hundreds of people out there giving advice on things they have not experienced. If I were a heavy drinker I would most likely seek the advice of an ex-drinker to help fix my problems than a kid fresh out of school who rarely ever drank himself. SVC is a good example of what things used to be and can answer some questions that may help some of the heavy AS users on the board. We all know that playing with your hormones is not a safe practice but we do what we do for our own reasons and we will all get to deal with our own conseqences in due time. Everything and every choice carries its price.


well said

----------


## SVC

I'm 5'9" (5'7" with the forward lean  :Smilie:  I started using when I was 22.5 years old. (weighed approx. 175) The most I weighed was 220. I appeared heavier because my joints are so small (ala Flex Wheeler illusion). 

I believe GMuscle made some great points. Research everything... look before you leap... 






> This is a huge thread....... I have been trying to read and catch up. How tall are you SVC? What did you weigh at your largest? And guys..... nobody knows it all it seems that this guy has been trying to answer the best he can..... and the link to his site was interesting. He knows and admits he did not know much about what he was doing back then and we all know we have way more resources for answers now. I don't take anything to heart without researching it first and asking tons of questions. There are hundreds of people out there giving advice on things they have not experienced. If I were a heavy drinker I would most likely seek the advice of an ex-drinker to help fix my problems than a kid fresh out of school who rarely ever drank himself. SVC is a good example of what things used to be and can answer some questions that may help some of the heavy AS users on the board. We all know that playing with your hormones is not a safe practice but we do what we do for our own reasons and we will all get to deal with our own conseqences in due time. Everything and every choice carries its price.

----------


## Decakur

> This is a huge thread....... I have been trying to read and catch up. How tall are you SVC? What did you weigh at your largest? And guys..... nobody knows it all it seems that this guy has been trying to answer the best he can..... and the link to his site was interesting. He knows and admits he did not know much about what he was doing back then and we all know we have way more resources for answers now. I don't take anything to heart without researching it first and asking tons of questions. There are hundreds of people out there giving advice on things they have not experienced. If I were a heavy drinker I would most likely seek the advice of an ex-drinker to help fix my problems than a kid fresh out of school who rarely ever drank himself. SVC is a good example of what things used to be and can answer some questions that may help some of the heavy AS users on the board. We all know that playing with your hormones is not a safe practice but we do what we do for our own reasons and we will all get to deal with our own conseqences in due time. Everything and every choice carries its price.


That's just amazing, great post.

----------


## SVC

I always ate clean when I was cycling ... mainly Chicken & Brown Basmati Rice. I didn't believe in and still don't believe in cheat meals. If you own a Ferrari TesticleRosta  :Smilie:  would you put HI OCTANE FUEL in it or CONVENIENCE STORE REGULAR FUEL? 

Fortunately, because I went off between cycles and used HCG during and between, my natural test is fine. If my natural test becomes abnormally low in the future I will try natural remedies to bring it up. (Cobra...) 

I have no desire to use AS again... I'm not that same guy anymore... I've always got more fulfillment out of helping others (as cheesy as it may sound)...





> SVC, I've got a question for you. And I apologize if it was asked already. I've tried to keep up on the thread, but I'm sure I missed some of it. 
> 
> Anyway, what did your diet look like while you were on cycle? You packed on some serious size between your natural and juiced pics.
> 
> Another thing, what are your current stats...in the last natural pic. And have you ever thought about using steroids again, now that you know so much more about them. You can PM me if you'd like.
> 
> Thanks

----------


## Decakur

althuought i dont think is a good adivce to say to someone use HCG while off and on cycle to keep your natural test levers up. 
I dont belive it..  :Don't know:

----------


## SVC

> althuought i dont think is a good adivce to say to someone use HCG while off and on cycle to keep your natural test levers up. 
> I dont belive it..


It's not my advice that anyone should use AS, HCG or any other presciption drug... I'm just stating what I believe worked for me when I was using AS...

Everyone should do their own research and consult their physician before doing anything ... especially something that alters their body's chemistry...

----------


## Decakur

> It's not my advice that anyone should use AS, HCG or any other presciption drug... I'm just stating what I believe worked for me when I was using AS...
> 
> Everyone should do their own research and consult their physician before doing anything ... especially something that alters their body's chemistry...


I mean someone that are using AS or is gona do a cycle, if you
cant stop then of doing these cycles, do you give them advice 
that they should run HCG thru the whole cycle and after, and
also to do clomid ED on a cycle.

Man.. clomid has more sid effects then for ex. dianabol .
HCG, you can get BT etc...

----------


## SVC

> I mean someone that are using AS or is gona do a cycle, if you
> cant stop then of doing these cycles, do you give them advice 
> that they should run HCG thru the whole cycle and after, and
> also to do clomid ED on a cycle.
> 
> Man.. clomid has more sid effects then for ex. dianabol .
> HCG, you can get BT etc...



I'm glad you brought up CLOMID. I took CLOMID for literally 2 days in 1985, then I heard that it makes your eyes sensitive to light so I said F**k this and used HCG only. I never had gyno in my life, I think it's because I always took NOLVA while I was on. I also noticed that NOLVA & HCG made my skin real thin.

----------


## Decakur

That's just Amazing.. But 10mg Nolva shuld be fine when on cycle?
20mg sounds alittle bit overdrive.

----------


## SVC

> That's just Amazing.. But 10mg Nolva shuld be fine when on cycle?
> 20mg sounds alittle bit overdrive.



I always used 20 because I read that the half life of NOLVA is extremely short which means it's not in your system for a long time and the makers of NOLVA recommended the tabs not be broken so it made it impossible to use 5mg twice per day...

----------


## Decakur

> I always used 20 because I read that the half life of NOLVA is extremely short which means it's not in your system for a long time and the makers of NOLVA recommended the tabs not be broken so it made it impossible to use 5mg twice per day...


So you should run 20mg nolva the whole cycle?
Could that keep the AS results down?

----------


## asymmetrical1

very good thread.....svc if that is you, you looked fn outstanding.......
how you got there, ill will never understand because you are/were a knucklehead
and how did you go from nationals/condition to 160lbs???
guess you quit doin those neck lifts....

----------


## SVC

> very good thread.....svc if that is you, you looked fn outstanding.......
> how you got there, ill will never understand because you are/were a knucklehead
> and how did you go from nationals/condition to 160lbs???
> guess you quit doin those neck lifts....


thanks, I think... (note to self - never tell anyone about the neck lifts again which I did for a total of 4 weeks - it's virtually the only thing they seem to remember  :Smilie:  )

----------


## asymmetrical1

> thanks, I think... (note to self - never tell anyone about the neck lifts again which I did for a total of 4 weeks - it's virtually the only thing they seem to remember  )


lol....4 real you were in insane shape
the neck things were the most memorable but getting in that shape running those jacked the **** upd cycles and overtraining like a madman on crystal meth is still an accomplishment....im one of htose people that will never compete, i just like being "jacked"......

----------


## KGBnine

> That's just Amazing.. But 10mg Nolva shuld be fine when on cycle?


wtf is so amazing????




> thanks, I think... (note to self - never tell anyone about the neck lifts again which I did for a total of 4 weeks - it's virtually the only thing they seem to remember )


Yeah seriously huh! It really stands out though. But I'm sure ppl have done dumber things back then and now today. At least you had the balls to admit it huh  :LOL:

----------


## Decakur

> wtf is so amazing????


Hehe, althought hes skin and teeth was BRARLLY WHITE, and nolva
and hcg maid the skin look even more better, thats just amaizing IMO.

----------


## SVC

> lol....4 real you were in insane shape
> the neck things were the most memorable but getting in that shape running those jacked the **** upd cycles and overtraining like a madman on crystal meth is still an accomplishment....im one of htose people that will never compete, i just like being "jacked"......



What part of Germany are you from? I'm 3/4 German. My mother is 100%, she's originally from Berlin. I think Germans have some of the best genetics on the planet...

----------


## SVC

> wtf is so amazing????
> 
> Yeah seriously huh! It really stands out though. But I'm sure ppl have done dumber things back then and now today. At least you had the balls to admit it huh


thanks man

----------


## Decakur

It dosen't matter if the pic is on "SVC" or not, anyway in my opinion 
the guy on the pic (fron triceps shot) , omg that pic is amazing and
the physique there is amazing.. just amazing..

----------


## SVC

> It dosen't matter if the pic is on "SVC" or not, anyway in my opinion 
> the guy on the pic (fron triceps shot) , omg that pic is amazing and
> the physique there is amazing.. just amazing..


"I SVC, do solemnly swear, all the photos in the video clip were of me"  :Smilie:

----------


## asymmetrical1

> What part of Germany are you from? I'm 3/4 German. My mother is 100%, she's originally from Berlin. I think Germans have some of the best genetics on the planet...


from virnheim.....live by the rhiem-neckar mall....near mannheim(the armpit of deutchland)

----------


## Decakur

> from virnheim.....live by the rhiem-neckar mall....near mannheim(the armpit of deutchland)


Awsome.

----------


## Decakur

That's just amazing.. 

SVC you nerver quoted the thing i wrote..

----------


## SVC

> That's just amazing.. 
> 
> SVC you nerver quoted the thing i wrote..



I never quoted which thing that you wrote?

----------


## *Narkissos*

*For SVC*

1) How long did you train naturally prior to taking AS? *5 years*

2) What were the main reasons you started using AS? *Part of my long-term goal to turn Pro*

3) How old were you when you started using AS? *20*

4) Were you aware that you keep growing in height until you're 23 and that taking steroids prior can stunt your growth and lead to other problems down the road prior to starting your first cycle? *yes*

5) Do you experience any side effects while you're on AS? (i.e. acne, hair loss, oily skin, increased blood pressure, heart arrhythmia, joint pain, mood swings, elevation in cholesterol, liver enzyme elevation...) *no*

6) Do you personally know anyone who has experienced severe side effects? If so, what were their side effects? *gynaecomastia..no 'serious' sides*

7) Do your parents know you're using AS? Have they asked if you were? *no*

8) Did you research AS prior to starting your first cycle? If so, where did you do this research (where did you get your information?) *yes..internet..coach..word of mouth*

9) Did you purchase your AS on the black market? If so, how can you be sure it was real and how can you be sure of the sterility of it? *no...USP grade*

10) If you've used TREN or FINAJECT did you make your own? *---*

11) How long do you go off AS between cycles? *months...right now it's been about a year and half*

12) Where do you inject yourself? (i.e. glutes, quads, shoulders...) *glute for gear.. delts for b12*

13) Have you ever used synthol to temporarily enlarge your muscles? If so, how much oil did you inject and where? * NO*

----------


## Decakur

Amazing Narkissons..

----------


## seanw

> I've tried to answer all of your questions. If possible, I'd appreciate it if you could answer the following (email me: [email protected] or send me a private message in here or post your answers. 
> 
> 1) How long did you train naturally prior to taking AS? *30 Years*
> 2) What were the main reasons you started using AS? *I am 49 so I wanted to reduce the effects of ageing and of course I want to get bigger*
> 
> 3) How old were you when you started using AS? *49*
> 4) Were you aware that you keep growing in height until you're 23 and that taking steroids prior can stunt your growth and lead to other problems down the road prior to starting your first cycle? *Yes*
> 5) Do you experience any side effects while you're on AS? (i.e. acne, hair loss, oily skin, increased blood pressure, heart arrhythmia, joint pain, mood swings, elevation in cholesterol, liver enzyme elevation...) *No*
> 6) Do you personally know anyone who has experienced severe side effects? If so, what were their side effects? *Yes, sore nipples, fixed with Arimidex*
> ...


For SVC

----------


## Carlos_E

> Amazing Narkissons..


You find everything "amazing."

----------


## KINGKONG

> You find everything "amazing."


  :LOL:

----------


## KGBnine

> You find everything "amazing."


Good god I'm not the only one to notice.

----------


## *Narkissos*

> Good god I'm not the only one to notice.


  :LOL:  
i LOVE AR

----------


## SVC

> You find everything "amazing."


Thanks for filling out the questionnaire Narkissos & Sean W. It would really be "AMAZING" if CARLOS E, BIG K.L.G. & M.B.H. filled out questionnaires.  :Smilie:

----------


## KGBnine

> I've tried to answer all of your questions. If possible, I'd appreciate it if you could answer the following (email me: [email protected] or send me a private message in here or post your answers. 
> 
> 1) How long did you train naturally prior to taking AS? *4years*
> 2) What were the main reasons you started using AS? *Increase mass*
> 3) How old were you when you started using AS? *19*
> 4) Were you aware that you keep growing in height until you're 23 and that taking steroids prior can stunt your growth and lead to other problems down the road prior to starting your first cycle? *No*
> 5) Do you experience any side effects while you're on AS? (i.e. acne, hair loss, oily skin, increased blood pressure, heart arrhythmia, joint pain, mood swings, elevation in cholesterol, liver enzyme elevation...) *Minor Acne*
> 6) Do you personally know anyone who has experienced severe side effects? If so, what were their side effects? *none severe*
> 7) Do your parents know you're using AS? Have they asked if you were? *No and No*
> ...


 *No*

 :Strong Smiley:

----------


## *Narkissos*

It's all good SVC
Once you don't use the contents of the questionnaire to belittle bodybuilders i'm all for it

----------


## SVC

> *No*


thanks for completing the questionnaire aXe

----------


## KGBnine

> thanks for completing the questionnaire aXe


no prob, and forgot to add I have learned much on this board since my first cycle. If I could go back knowing the things I do now, I would have waited a few more years.

----------


## SVC

> It's all good SVC
> Once you don't use the contents of the questionnaire to belittle bodybuilders i'm all for it


no, that was never my intention.

----------


## *Narkissos*

> no, that was never my intention.



'k
one must make sure...as the current direction the media takes is to make steroid users look like idiots

----------


## Carlos_E

> no, that was never my intention.


Amazing!

----------


## SVC

> no prob, and forgot to add I have learned much on this board since my first cycle. If I could go back knowing the things I do now, I would have waited a few more years.


I hear ya... if I knew then what I know now. I never would have started...

----------


## *Narkissos*

> Amazing!


  :LOL:  

right on cue 
Deka

----------


## SVC

> Amazing!


I'd like to buy some syllables please... That "amazing" smells like sarcasm Carlos

----------


## Carlos_E

> I'd like to buy some syllables please... That "amazing" smells like sarcasm Carlos


Someone is getting my humor  :Cool:

----------


## SVC

> Someone is getting my humor



You've gotta have a sense of humor to live in NYC these days... Yankees choke to my Sox and the Mets suck Moose...  :Smilie:

----------


## SVC

> Someone is getting my humor


But seriously... I'd be curious to see your answers to questionnaire since you seem to be one of the more successful bb competitors on this board...

----------


## Carlos_E

> But seriously... I'd be curious to see your answers to questionnaire since you seem to be one of the more successful bb competitors on this board...


Yeah... I'd answer them but we know that all national competitors are natural.  :Smilie:

----------


## *Narkissos*

> Yeah... I'd answer them but we know that all national competitors are natural.


Amazing

----------


## SVC

> Yeah... I'd answer them but we know that all national competitors are natural.


These days some of the "natural" competitors aren't "natural" which really pisses me off... why someone on sauce would feel good about beating natural guys and accepting a trophy that reads "Mr. Natural..." is beyond me...

At least most of you guys admit you're on... and compete in untested contests...

----------


## SVC

> Amazing


Touche' Narkissos Carlos doesn't want to give up his magic history... he's holding on tighter than his last piece of "victory pizza"  :Smilie:

----------


## BajanBastard

[QUOTE=SVC]I've tried to answer all of your questions. If possible, I'd appreciate it if you could answer the following (email me: [email protected] or send me a private message in here or post your answers. 




> 1) How long did you train naturally prior to taking AS?


2.5 years



> 2) What were the main reasons you started using AS?


To get big and ripped. Why else?



> 3) How old were you when you started using AS?


21.



> 4) Were you aware that you keep growing in height until you're 23 and that taking steroids prior can stunt your growth and lead to other problems down the road prior to starting your first cycle?


No. At 5'11" i'm cool with my height. 



> 5) Do you experience any side effects while you're on AS? (i.e. acne, hair loss, oily skin, increased blood pressure, heart arrhythmia, joint pain, mood swings, elevation in cholesterol, liver enzyme elevation...)


 No.



> 6) Do you personally know anyone who has experienced severe side effects? If so, what were their side effects?


Yes. Friend of mine got gynecomastia from using anadiol, a horse steriod . It's a test e, estrogen mix. I blame his ignorance.



> 7) Do your parents know you're using AS? Have they asked if you were?


Yes I'm very open about my steriod use. 



> 8) Did you research AS prior to starting your first cycle? If so, where did you do this research (where did you get your information?)


 The bulk for my research are from the pages of AR.



> 9) Did you purchase your AS on the black market? If so, how can you be sure it was real and how can you be sure of the sterility of it?


 My test was human grade. On the other hand i had to trust my source at the time.



> 10) If you've used TREN or FINAJECT did you make your own?


Yes I made it from the cattle implants.



> 11) How long do you go off AS between cycles?


 "Off" for well over 2 years now.  :Frown:  



> 12) Where do you inject yourself? (i.e. glutes, quads, shoulders...)


Tri's, bi's, delt and glutes.



> 13) Have you ever used synthol to temporarily enlarge your muscles? If so, how much oil did you inject and where?


Never have never will.

----------


## *Narkissos*

Sooooooo SVC wazzup wid u?

----------


## Carlos_E

> Touche' Narkissos Carlos doesn't want to give up his magic history... he's holding on tighter than his last piece of "victory pizza"


Victory pie. I have a weakness for key lime or blueberry cranberry. I'm not big on pizza.

----------


## SVC

> Amazing


Where is MBH? I'm not getting my *R*ecommended *D*aily *A*llowance of Sh*t  :Smilie:

----------


## *Narkissos*

SVC
i can fill in... can't have you getting deficiencies lol

j/k

----------


## BajanBastard

> Victory pie. I have a weakness for key lime or blueberry cranberry. I'm not big on pizza.


That's amazing!!

----------


## Carlos_E

> That's amazing!!


 :LOL:

----------


## SVC

> SVC
> i can fill in... can't have you getting deficiencies lol
> 
> j/k


no that's ok, i'm burning all of my sh*t stores for fuel...  :Smilie:

----------


## SVC

> 2.5 years
> 
> To get big and ripped. Why else?
> 
> 21.
> 
> No. At 5'11" i'm cool with my height. 
> No.
> 
> ...



Thanks Big! now Big C from NYC is the Last of Mohican tight lipped Mo Fo's  :Smilie:

----------


## SVC

> Victory pie. I have a weakness for key lime or blueberry cranberry. I'm not big on pizza.


I used to crave and dream about eating crap I didn't even like when I was dieting for contests... after the contest, I'd eat it and say "I can't believe I was dreaming about this cake, it tastes like dirt..."

When ever I was tempted to cheat on the diet I would imagine hearing... "in 5th place from..."

----------


## seanw

> Where is MBH? I'm not getting my *R*ecommended *D*aily *A*llowance of Sh*t


LMAO  :LOL:   :LOL:

----------


## Decakur

Great post everyone..  :Strong Smiley:

----------


## GymDog

> ...but everyone I know that has juiced has had an injury of some sort - from muscle tears to shoulder surgeries, correlation?


Man, that's the most ignorant load of **** I've ever heard. Injuries result from going too heavy or improper form, or a combination of the two. I've done 5 cycles, and will be starting my 6th in March. I'm 6'0" 250 lbs, and have NEVER suffered a permanent injury. Yeah, I've strained muscles and overworked my body before, but you don't have to juice to do that...

----------


## Decakur

> Man, that's the most ignorant load of **** I've ever heard. Injuries result from going too heavy or improper form, or a combination of the two. I've done 5 cycles, and will be starting my 6th in March. I'm 6'0" 250 lbs, and have NEVER suffered a permanent injury. Yeah, I've strained muscles and overworked my body before, but you don't have to juice to do that...


Good Point there! What is your bodyFAT?

----------


## GymDog

> Good Point there! What is your bodyFAT?


roughly 6-7%.

----------


## GymDog

> I've tried to answer all of your questions. If possible, I'd appreciate it if you could answer the following (email me: [email protected] or send me a private message in here or post your answers. 
> 
> 1) How long did you train naturally prior to taking AS?


Three years. Went from 155 to 195 naturally. 




> 2) What were the main reasons you started using AS?


I turned to steroids only because I couldn't gain anymore, regardless of whether I adjusted my routine or diet. As a matter of fact, I gained 40 lbs in the first 2 years, and then spent a year stuck at the same weight. I wanted to be much bigger, and steroids were the only way.




> 3) How old were you when you started using AS?


 21 years old.




> 4) Were you aware that you keep growing in height until you're 23 and that taking steroids prior can stunt your growth and lead to other problems down the road prior to starting your first cycle?


Can I ask you a question? Who the hell feeds you that fragmented and misinformed crap? A person's growth plates don't close at the same age. Maybe one person's plates fuse @ 20, while some may not fuse until 25. I know for a fact that I had been done growing years ago, because as a child I suffered from a growth hormone deficiency, so I was treated from ages 6-17 with Human Growth Hormone, one of the many drugs you were bashing in that speech of yours. Throughout my development, doctors x-rayed my hands to check the spacing in my growth plates. At age 17, they took me off HGH because they told me the x-rays showed my growth plates had closed, and treatment was no longer needed. What's funny is, until recently, doctors didn't know that a person could be deficient in growth hormone levels even as an adult. Next month, I will be seeing my endocrinologist and he will test my GH levels. If they are below normal, I will be prescribed HGH for the rest of my life. I've got my fingers crossed...  :Wink: 





> 5) Do you experience any side effects while you're on AS? (i.e. acne, hair loss, oily skin, increased blood pressure, heart arrhythmia, joint pain, mood swings, elevation in cholesterol, liver enzyme elevation...)


Acne? Yes. Hair loss? No, I am not genetically predisposed to it. oily skin? Yes. elevated blood pressure? NO, I donate plasma sometimes twice a week (when I'm not cycling), and they always perform a blood pressure test before extracting my plasma. Whether I was on or off, my BP never fluctuated. Heart arrythmia? Nope. As a matter of fact, a doctor told me 3 weeks ago that my heart was very healthy. Joint Pain? Believe it or not, nope. I'm a firm believer in strict form, and form is where most injuries occur. Mood swings? None that I or my fiancee have noticed. At least no more than I did before using AAS!  :Big Grin:  I had urine & bloodwork done a couple weeks ago and my liver & kidneys are good, as well as my cholesterol levels are in check.




> 6) Do you personally know anyone who has experienced severe side effects? If so, what were their side effects?


 I have a buddy who thought it was a good idea to cycle for 8 months straight. I'm sure as a result he's got other underlying problems, but the only thing he's complained about is frequent urination, likely as a result of his prostate enlarging, as some BB'ers experience. He's recovering though, as an enlarged prostate is easily treatable. I've heard no problems from my other "chemically-enhanced" friends, because we all use AAS responsibly...and we stay away from lifting 200 lbs using only our necks...  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  





> 7) Do your parents know you're using AS? Have they asked if you were?


No, they don't. I'm a mature, independent adult, and my parents no longer need to look out for my personal welfare. No, they respect me enough to not ask. It would be one thing bringing steroids into my parents' house, but I'm grown and will be married soon. I'm living my own life. They're living their own lives too.




> 8) Did you research AS prior to starting your first cycle? If so, where did you do this research (where did you get your information?)


Yes, for 2 years. I wanted to be sure I was as informed as possible to make the rational decision on using or not using steroids. I did all my research online, this board being the one responsible for a larger portion of my steroid education.





> 9) Did you purchase your AS on the black market? If so, how can you be sure it was real and how can you be sure of the sterility of it?


Yes, with the exception of my first two cycles, I bought it in powder form, converted, and filtered it myself. Never had an absess, even when I did cycles with everyday injections. How can I tell if the stuf is real? I dunno, maybe in 2 years, I blew up to 250 lbs. I dunno. Do you think my **** was real?  :Don't know:  BTW, I know my AAS was sterile because I boil all my bottles 3 times to ensure any bacteria or other contaminants are destroyed.




> 10) If you've used TREN or FINAJECT did you make your own?


Ha! I've converted and injected Tren for all my cycles except for my first one and my most recent one.




> 11) How long do you go off AS between cycles?


Time on = Time off. If I run a 10 week cycle, I take off 10 weeks. If I run a 15 week cycle, I take off 15 weeks.




> 12) Where do you inject yourself? (i.e. glutes, quads, shoulders...)


My first cycle, I did glutes only. Every cycle thereafter, I rotated biceps, pecs, delts, and sometimes glutes.




> 13) Have you ever used synthol to temporarily enlarge your muscles? If so, how much oil did you inject and where?


I have never, nor would I ever touch that crap. Only retards use synthol...

----------


## Carlos_E

> When ever I was tempted to cheat on the diet I would imagine hearing... "in 5th place from..."


During contest prep whenever I had a craving I wrote it down on a "list of things to eat after the contest." My list was 2 pages long but I never cheated my contest diet so it worked. I ate maybe 6 things on the list after the show was over.

----------


## Decakur

> When ever I was tempted to cheat on the diet I would imagine hearing... "in 5th place from..."


Thats ****ing amazing bro..  :Welcome:

----------


## SVC

Can I ask you a question? Who the hell feeds you that fragmented and misinformed crap? A person's growth plates don't close at the same age. Maybe one person's plates fuse @ 20, while some may not fuse until 25. I know for a fact that I had been done growing years ago, because as a child I suffered from a growth hormone deficiency, so I was treated from ages 6-17 with Human Growth Hormone, one of the many drugs you were bashing in that speech of yours. Throughout my development, doctors x-rayed my hands to check the spacing in my growth plates. At age 17, they took me off HGH because they told me the x-rays showed my growth plates had closed, and treatment was no longer needed. What's funny is, until recently, doctors didn't know that a person could be deficient in growth hormone levels even as an adult. Next month, I will be seeing my endocrinologist and he will test my GH levels. If they are below normal, I will be prescribed HGH for the rest of my life. I've got my fingers crossed...  :Wink:

----------


## SVC

Can I ask you a question? Who the hell feeds you that fragmented and misinformed crap? A person's growth plates don't close at the same age. Maybe one person's plates fuse @ 20, while some may not fuse until 25. I know for a fact that I had been done growing years ago, because as a child I suffered from a growth hormone deficiency, so I was treated from ages 6-17 with Human Growth Hormone, one of the many drugs you were bashing in that speech of yours. Throughout my development, doctors x-rayed my hands to check the spacing in my growth plates. At age 17, they took me off HGH because they told me the x-rays showed my growth plates had closed, and treatment was no longer needed. What's funny is, until recently, doctors didn't know that a person could be deficient in growth hormone levels even as an adult. Next month, I will be seeing my endocrinologist and he will test my GH levels. If they are below normal, I will be prescribed HGH for the rest of my life. I've got my fingers crossed...  :Wink: 


My point was that taking steroids at too young an age can cause premature closure of the epiphysial plates. Average kids don't suffer from a growth hormone deficiency as a child like you did, so obviously your case is different from most kids...

Did you watch the video closely? Did you listen closely? Was I bashing dwarfs for taking GH? No, I wasn't. I was bashing Crescormin (1985 GH) when it was extracted from human pituitaries and later it was discovered many of the batches were contaminated with Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (human mad cow disease). I was also bashing athletes that use so much GH & insulin that all their internal organs grow and they develop huge, aesthetically unpleasing, distended guts.

I hope this clears some things up...

Good luck in the future

----------


## SVC

> Three years. Went from 155 to 195 naturally. 
> 
> I turned to steroids only because I couldn't gain anymore, regardless of whether I adjusted my routine or diet. As a matter of fact, I gained 40 lbs in the first 2 years, and then spent a year stuck at the same weight. I wanted to be much bigger, and steroids were the only way.
> 
> 21 years old.
> 
> 
> 
> Can I ask you a question? Who the hell feeds you that fragmented and misinformed crap? A person's growth plates don't close at the same age. Maybe one person's plates fuse @ 20, while some may not fuse until 25. I know for a fact that I had been done growing years ago, because as a child I suffered from a growth hormone deficiency, so I was treated from ages 6-17 with Human Growth Hormone, one of the many drugs you were bashing in that speech of yours. Throughout my development, doctors x-rayed my hands to check the spacing in my growth plates. At age 17, they took me off HGH because they told me the x-rays showed my growth plates had closed, and treatment was no longer needed. What's funny is, until recently, doctors didn't know that a person could be deficient in growth hormone levels even as an adult. Next month, I will be seeing my endocrinologist and he will test my GH levels. If they are below normal, I will be prescribed HGH for the rest of my life. I've got my fingers crossed... 
> ...





My point was that taking steroids at too young an age can cause premature closure of the epiphysial plates. Average kids don't suffer from a growth hormone deficiency as a child like you did, so obviously your case is different from most kids...

Did you watch the video closely? Did you listen closely? Was I bashing dwarfs for taking GH? No, I wasn't. I was bashing Crescormin (1985 GH) when it was extracted from human pituitaries and later it was discovered many of the batches were contaminated with Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (human mad cow disease). I was also bashing athletes that use so much GH & insulin that all their internal organs grow and they develop huge, aesthetically unpleasing, distended guts.

I hope this clears some things up...

Good luck in the future

----------


## SVC

I was trying to respond to his statement... see below

----------


## DADDYDBOL

> I've tried to answer all of your questions. If possible, I'd appreciate it if you could answer the following (email me: [email protected] or send me a private message in here or post your answers. 
> 
> 1) How long did you train naturally prior to taking AS? *from age 15 to 25*
> 2) What were the main reasons you started using AS? *to gain mass*
> 3) How old were you when you started using AS? *25*
> 4) Were you aware that you keep growing in height until you're 23 and that taking steroids prior can stunt your growth and lead to other problems down the road prior to starting your first cycle? *yes, and i agree with you on that*5) Do you experience any side effects while you're on AS? (i.e. acne, hair loss, oily skin, increased blood pressure, heart arrhythmia, joint pain, mood swings, elevation in cholesterol, liver enzyme elevation...) *mild acne and high bp*6) Do you personally know anyone who has experienced severe side effects? If so, what were their side effects? *yes, gyno*
> 7) Do your parents know you're using AS? Have they asked if you were? *my entire family knows*8) Did you research AS prior to starting your first cycle? If so, where did you do this research (where did you get your information?) *yes, old timers (bbers) and semi pro athletes*
> 9) Did you purchase your AS on the black market? If so, how can you be sure it was real and how can you be sure of the sterility of it? *started with vet grade but now use ug's, you don't know thats why there are boards like these to report bad ug's*10) If you've used TREN or FINAJECT did you make your own?
> 11) How long do you go off AS between cycles? *time on = time off*12) Where do you inject yourself? (i.e. glutes, quads, shoulders...) *well with ed tren shots...pretty much everywhere*13) Have you ever used synthol to temporarily enlarge your muscles? If so, how much oil did you inject and where? *no way*!




can i ask you a ?

with regular dr visits and regular bloodwork do you feel its unsafe to use gear?

----------


## Decakur

SVC That's just amazing.. 

And also, The HUGE stomage the ATHLETS have today
is because the INSULIN , not GH. 
Well, but ofcurse look at Jay Cutlers face, thats because 
HIGH input of HGH.. and thats just amazing althought but he's
a nice man and a great athlete. 

 :Welcome:

----------


## SVC

> can i ask you a ?
> 
> with regular dr visits and regular bloodwork do you feel its unsafe to use gear?


Thanks for completing the questionnaire.

I think it's safer and wise to get regular blood work and doctor visits while using gear... I always did... My SGOTs never went over 50.

I don't believe all of the possible LONG TERM side effects can be detected in advance.

----------


## DADDYDBOL

> Thanks for completing the questionnaire.
> 
> I think it's safer and wise to get regular blood work and doctor visits while using gear... I always did... My SGOTs never went over 50.
> 
> I don't believe all of the possible LONG TERM side effects can be detected in advance.




what long term effects? without naming names i know 6 retired pro bbers in mid 40's with no problems what so ever.

----------


## BajanBastard

> what long term effects? without naming names i know 6 retired pro bbers in mid 40's with no problems what so ever.


Wow! That's amazing DADDYDBOL!! Just amazing!

Hey SVC on the issue of using AAS too young, i agree with you that teens (15-19) should wait but the growth plate closure is a little over rated IMO. This is an extract from the nursing 2003 handbook in regards to nandrolone administration in children. "In children during treatment, bone maturation may proceed more rapidly than linear growth periodically review x-ray results to monitor bone maturation". That does not sound like a very sudden reaction to me.

----------


## Decakur

hey big.. you are not making fun of me? amazing althougth..  :Welcome:

----------


## BajanBastard

> hey big.. you are not making fun of me? amazing althougth..


You are cracking me up!  :LOL:  You are amazing bro.

----------


## SVC

> what long term effects? without naming names i know 6 retired pro bbers in mid 40's with no problems what so ever.


I'm sure there's 6 lifetime smokers that haven't died but there's 500,000 smokers that do die every year... 

Remember I've always stated this COULD happen not this WILL DEFINITELY HAPPEN...

There's lots that have had problems... guys you've never heard of because they weren't pros - but some were...

----------


## SVC

> Wow! That's amazing DADDYDBOL!! Just amazing!
> 
> Hey SVC on the issue of using AAS too young, i agree with you that teens (15-19) should wait but the growth plate closure is a little over rated IMO. This is an extract from the nursing 2003 handbook in regards to nandrolone administration in children. "In children during treatment, bone maturation may proceed more rapidly than linear growth periodically review x-ray results to monitor bone maturation". That does not sound like a very sudden reaction to me.


We could debate the premature closure of the epiphysial plates forever and there's conflicting data on the subject...

I have some questions for you big k.l.g and others

1) Do you agree that a normal teenager's body produces lots of natural GH & Test?
2) If your answer is yes, why would any teenager consider taking AS?
3) Big K.L.G., I believe in one of your earlier statements you claimed it was unnecessary to cycle off to allow your body to normalize itself. If you believe that to be true, is it then necessary to take more AS in future cycles to get any kind of additional growth? 

I used to notice, after going off for 6 months, I would explode when I went back on again, while guys that stayed on were stagnant.

----------


## SVC

> what long term effects? without naming names i know 6 retired pro bbers in mid 40's with no problems what so ever.


I'll see your 6 and raise you 76 (and please don't take the MBH approach and write "Sonny Schmidt smoked a joint in 76 so that contributed..."

Sonny Schmidt died at 46
Scott Klein died at 30
Ron Teufel died at 45
Mike Mentzer died at 49
Ray Mentzer died at 47
Don Ross died at 55
Dr. John Tristany died
Don Peters died
Don Long (kidney failure)
Flex Wheeler (kidney transplant)
Ed Corney (stroke)
Boyer Coe (heart)
Danny Padilla (heart)
Pete Grymkowski (heart)

62 Finnish power-lifters suspected of using steroids died at a rate five times higher than average

----------


## Carlos_E

> And also, The HUGE stomage the ATHLETS have today
> is because the INSULIN , not GH.


Says who? It's from GH causing the internal organs to grow. Some of the things you say is just *AMAZING!*

----------


## BajanBastard

[QUOTE=SVC]We could debate the premature closure of the epiphysial plates forever and there's conflicting data on the subject...

I have some questions for you big k.l.g and others




> 1) Do you agree that a normal teenager's body produces lots of natural GH & Test?.


 Yes. That is why young teens don't need drugs.



> 2) If your answer is yes, why would any teenager consider taking AS?.


Because they believe drugs can replace solid training and diet. JMO.




> Big K.L.G., I believe in one of your earlier statements you claimed it was unnecessary to cycle off to allow your body to normalize itself. If you believe that to be true, is it then necessary to take more AS in future cycles to get any kind of additional growth?


I NEVER said it was not necessary to cycle off drugs. You said that AR need to be "cleaned out". I corrected that claim.



> I used to notice, after going off for 6 months, I would explode when I went back on again, while guys that stayed on were stagnant.


Other factors are involved higher SHBG, the inablity to consume enough calories etc but yes you are right drugs are best cycled.

----------


## Decakur

> Says who? It's from GH causing the internal organs to grow. Some of the things you say is just *AMAZING!*


althougth.. the pro's sure have internal organs big. 
but the main reason is the insulin and the IGF-1.
Do a little research and you will find the answear why insulin
do that. 

sure amazing bro  :Don't know:

----------


## Decakur

SVC i looked at the movie once again and i must say that the 
pics on the gut side triceps shot and where you say that you 
have done "a couple of cycles" it sure dosent look like you in the
face man, and that freaks me out.

Is it really you? or is it bull**** -propaganda? 
If it was you, amazing.. just amazing bro.

Nice legs  :Welcome:

----------


## BajanBastard

I always knew GH to be the culprit. Slin could also be a factor tho.

----------


## SVC

> what long term effects? without naming names i know 6 retired pro bbers in mid 40's with no problems what so ever.


DUNT, DUNT, ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST... 
MIKE MATARAZZO HAD OPEN HEART SURGERY 
(I just copied the info below from Bodybuilding.com - check out the mentality of this genius who posted this - he's bragging about not caring if he dies and the fact that he's squatting 405 for 1 weighing 240. I could squat 405 for 1 when I weighed 150 and I was natural.

Mike Matarazzo had heart surgery underwent triple bypass heart surgery on Wednesday

flexonline has the story

http://www.flexonline.com/news/71
__________________
I don't care if i die, as long as i get buried in a big box

99% of your life is what you make of it, so if your life sucks, YOU SUCK

6'0
240

Db Incline Bench 100's for sets of 6
Squat 405 for 1
Deadlift 425 for 4
Leg Press 1005 for 1

BETA PSI PSI 
Last edited by will-work4ANDRO : 12-15-2004 at 11:03 AM.

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> Thanks for filling out the questionnaire Narkissos & Sean W. It would really be "AMAZING" if CARLOS E, BIG K.L.G. & M.B.H. filled out questionnaires.


Answer my posts now!



> I've tried to answer all of your questions. If possible, I'd appreciate it if you could answer the following (email me: [email protected] or send me a private message in here or post your answers. 
> 
> 
> 1) How long did you train naturally prior to taking AS? *~24y*
> 2) What were the main reasons you started using AS? *Wanted to*
> 3) How old were you when you started using AS? *~24y*
> 4) Were you aware that you keep growing in height until you're 23 and that taking steroids prior can stunt your growth and lead to other problems down the road prior to starting your first cycle? *Yes*
> 5) Do you experience any side effects while you're on AS? (i.e. acne, hair loss, oily skin, increased blood pressure, heart arrhythmia, joint pain, mood swings, elevation in cholesterol, liver enzyme elevation...) *Nothing major*
> 6) Do you personally know anyone who has experienced severe side effects? If so, what were their side effects? *Nothing major*
> ...

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> DUNT, DUNT, ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST... 
> MIKE MATARAZZO HAD OPEN HEART SURGERY 
> (I just copied the info below from Bodybuilding.com - check out the mentality of this genius who posted this - he's bragging about not caring if he dies and the fact that he's squatting 405 for 1 weighing 240. I could squat 405 for 1 when I weighed 150 and I was natural.
> 
> Mike Matarazzo had heart surgery underwent triple bypass heart surgery on Wednesday
> 
> flexonline has the story
> 
> http://www.flexonline.com/news/71


Extreme case once again. Let's see some data on the average Joe Blow user.

----------


## Jackman

holy crap i just took an hour to read this **** thing.

----------


## Decakur

> holy crap i just took an hour to read this **** thing.


man it is all worth it, good job  :Welcome:

----------


## SVC

> Extreme case once again. Let's see some data on the average Joe Blow user.


There is no such data available. That's my point exactly. Has there ever been a study on the long term effects of Anabolic Steroids on healthy individuals? None that I'm aware of. That's why many of you are relying on each other for info (blind leading the blind if you will).

How would you ever hear about it if Joe Blow who lives in East Cupcake USA had problems from AS? You wouldn't. Think they'd broadcast it on CNN?

Look at how many pros and former pros are developing problems now.

Let's face it, you're going to believe what you want to believe. 

If you do have problems down the road, please have the balls to admit it to others...

----------


## SVC

> Answer my posts now!


thanks for completing the questionnaire

----------


## GymDog

> My point was that taking steroids at too young an age can cause premature closure of the epiphysial plates. Average kids don't suffer from a growth hormone deficiency as a child like you did, so obviously your case is different from most kids...


Understandable, but you were coming off with the opinion that 23 is the age for ALL people's growth plates to close, and anyone who juiced any younger than 23 was "robbing" them of linear growth. I'm actually surprised though that I haven't suffered any serious problems from my HGH treatment as a child, since I was put on it when docs didn't know what the proper doses were, and for the last few years of my treatment, I was literally shooting 100 iu's (yes, that's 1cc of HGH) everyday. This is what dose they prescribed for me to take. My little brother has the same problem (must be a sex-linked genetic trait found on the X chromosome), but docs have him on a much lower dosage, somewhere around 6-10iu's a day (can't remember the exact number). 




> Did you watch the video closely? Did you listen closely? Was I bashing dwarfs for taking GH? No, I wasn't. I was bashing Crescormin (1985 GH) when it was extracted from human pituitaries and later it was discovered many of the batches were contaminated with Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (human mad cow disease). I was also bashing athletes that use so much GH & insulin that all their internal organs grow and they develop huge, aesthetically unpleasing, distended guts.


Yes I did. No you weren't, but you must understand that if I get prescribed HGH for the rest of my life, I'm not gonna run it at their recommended dosage of around 1-2iu's/day, but rather more like 4-5iu's/day, maybe 6. Yeah, luckily I didn't get put on HGH until 1987, when synthetic HGH was developed. I also agree with you about that gortesque belly some bb'ers sport. I have used insulin in the past, but if I get prescribed HGH for life, I'll probably never touch it again, for fear that I would risk my internal organs growing, along with any other associated risks. The reason why I made a remark about that, is I probably won't run the doctor-prescribed dosage...at least not for a few years. Don't forget that bb'ers that are also diabetic get an unfair advantage, as well as any male on HRT. If they are bb'ers, chances are they won't use the doctor-prescribed doses for anything. I know I wouldn't, but that's just me...

----------


## GymDog

> Look at how many pros and former pros are developing problems now.


Yeah, and many (if not all of them) juiced year-round and never cycled off. That's just asking for trouble.

----------


## SVC

> Understandable, but you were coming off with the opinion that 23 is the age for ALL people's growth plates to close, and anyone who juiced any younger than 23 was "robbing" them of linear growth. I'm actually surprised though that I haven't suffered any serious problems from my HGH treatment as a child, since I was put on it when docs didn't know what the proper doses were, and for the last few years of my treatment, I was literally shooting 100 iu's (yes, that's 1cc of HGH) everyday. This is what dose they prescribed for me to take. My little brother has the same problem (must be a sex-linked genetic trait found on the X chromosome), but docs have him on a much lower dosage, somewhere around 6-10iu's a day (can't remember the exact number). 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I did. No you weren't, but you must understand that if I get prescribed HGH for the rest of my life, I'm not gonna run it at their recommended dosage of around 1-2iu's/day, but rather more like 4-5iu's/day, maybe 6. Yeah, luckily I didn't get put on HGH until 1987, when synthetic HGH was developed. I also agree with you about that gortesque belly some bb'ers sport. I have used insulin in the past, but if I get prescribed HGH for life, I'll probably never touch it again, for fear that I would risk my internal organs growing, along with any other associated risks. The reason why I made a remark about that, is I probably won't run the doctor-prescribed dosage...at least not for a few years. Don't forget that bb'ers that are also diabetic get an unfair advantage, as well as any male on HRT. If they are bb'ers, chances are they won't use the doctor-prescribed doses for anything. I know I wouldn't, but that's just me...



WOW! 100 iu's a day... your insurance company must hate you worse than mine  :Smilie:  That was costing them some cake! But hey, most insurance companies have 200 billion+ in assets. 

What brand did they have you on? Serono Saizon, Lilly Humatrope...?

What are your IGF-1 levels like?

----------


## SVC

> althougth.. the pro's sure have internal organs big. 
> but the main reason is the insulin and the IGF-1.
> Do a little research and you will find the answear why insulin
> do that. 
> 
> sure amazing bro


Decakur, Please cycle your "amazings"  :Smilie:  You can say "amazing" on push day Mondays & Thursdays "incredible" on Tues & Fri and "awesome" on Weds & Saturdays SUNDAY DON'T SPEAK OR TYPE  :Smilie:

----------


## Decakur

> Decakur, Please cycle your "amazings"  You can say "amazing" on push day Mondays & Thursdays "incredible" on Tues & Fri and "awesome" on Weds & Saturdays SUNDAY DON'T SPEAK OR TYPE


bro im not from US  :Wink/Grin:  
i just think is amazing althought.. very good qute's here.
and the thread is ****ing HUGE!!  :Welcome:

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> thanks for completing the questionnaire


Please respond to mine now. Thanks.




> It's an awesome board Todd. I would truly hope that you can now respect the amount of info on here...and possibly let people who are determined to use AS know about AR and its awesome members. I mean if they have their mind set and you cannot change it...why not direct them to the helping hand of AR. I know it's against your beliefs...but IMHO turning your back to them could potentially cause more harm than good.

----------


## Decakur

He is offline man! Oz on televison now, see ya tomorrow good night!  :Welcome:

----------


## SVC

[QUOTE=Money Boss Hustla]Please respond to mine now. Thanks.[/QUOTE

Respond to what?

----------


## DADDYDBOL

> Extreme case once again. Let's see some data on the average Joe Blow user.




thank you, he takes these guys that used with no thought to their health and says 'hey look at these guys....there dropping left and right'

well yeah and we have learned from those ppl and don't repeat their mistakes....

injecting hgh from dead ppl.....yeah thats not too brite....we know that now and we have guys in their late 30's and 40's that took precautions and have no long term health problems....


svc....you're the type person 20 20 gets to spread lies about something they know nothing about....

----------


## MER

SVC there is one thing I will ask you. What references/studies do you have to back up all your claims and information? Such as your growth plates comment.

----------


## Xerx

omg! i,m a diabetic type 1. On 70 ui,s slin daily, will this mean my organs will grow????????????????  :EEK!:

----------


## DADDYDBOL

> omg! i,m a diabetic type 1. On 70 ui,s slin daily, will this mean my organs will grow????????????????




no....slin DOES NOT MAKE YOUR ORGANS GROW.


hgh will though.....and make you look like a cave man....lol


check out cutler....lol

----------


## DADDYDBOL

> DUNT, DUNT, ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST... 
> MIKE MATARAZZO HAD OPEN HEART SURGERY 
> (I just copied the info below from Bodybuilding.com - check out the mentality of this genius who posted this - he's bragging about not caring if he dies and the fact that he's squatting 405 for 1 weighing 240. I could squat 405 for 1 when I weighed 150 and I was natural.
> 
> Mike Matarazzo had heart surgery underwent triple bypass heart surgery on Wednesday
> 
> flexonline has the story
> 
> http://www.flexonline.com/news/71
> ...





> It was much more serious than that: Tests showed two of his arteries were completely blocked and one was 90 per cent blocked. The diagnosis was conjunctive heart failure and triple bypass surgery was scheduled for Wednesday, December 8. Mike came through the three-hour operation with no problems. His surgeon said the procedure went as well as it possibly could.




i thought that was caused by eating saturated fat....i really don't know but how do as clog arteries?

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

[QUOTE=SVC]


> Please respond to mine now. Thanks.[/QUOTE
> 
> Respond to what?


Will you help them...or turn your back to them? Read my reply and answer it. Woould you send them to AR for help if you couldn't sway them?

----------


## SVC

> Will you help them...or turn your back to them? Read my reply and answer it. Woould you send them to AR for help if you couldn't sway them?


Yes, I would send them if I couldn't sway them. 

You've got a few obnoxious, disrespectful fools on here but you've got some thinkers as well. 

I would recommend you start banning people who contribute nothing but flames...

----------


## SVC

> i thought that was caused by eating saturated fat....i really don't know but how do as clog arteries?


raises your cholesterol 

http://www.steroids.org/side_effects.htm

----------


## SVC

> SVC there is one thing I will ask you. What references/studies do you have to back up all your claims and information? Such as your growth plates comment.


http://www.steroids.org/side_effects.htm

----------


## billy_ba

that web page has no scientific references or studies with specific information linked.

----------


## SVC

> omg! i,m a diabetic type 1. On 70 ui,s slin daily, will this mean my organs will grow????????????????



No, it seems to happen when HGH, insulin & IGF-1 are taken together.

----------


## BajanBastard

> i thought that was caused by eating saturated fat....i really don't know but how do as clog arteries?


Yes it will. Anabolic steroids impact HDL/LDL cholesterol ratio when we run our cycles, so you can imagine these year long mega dose "cycles used by the "pros" will affect the cardio vascular system.

My main problem with SVCs argument is that he is comparing us to guys who are rumured to take well over 5g of total AAS intake per week. Not to mention it's stacked with high dosages of HGH, IGF-1 etc

----------


## SVC

> that web page has no scientific references or studies with specific information linked.



http://www.northland.cc.mn.us/biolog.../bonenotes.htm

----------


## SVC

> Yes it will. Anabolic steroids impact HDL/LDL cholesterol ratio when we run our cycles, so you can imagine these year long mega dose "cycles used by the "pros" will affect the cardio vascular system.
> 
> My main problem with SVCs argument is that he is comparing us to guys who are rumured to take well over 5g of total AAS intake per week. Not to mention it's stacked with high dosages of HGH, IGF-1 etc



Mike M. never abused anything... 

Take it from someone who's worked with many top pros for years... they don't use anywhere near as much stuff as you think they do.

----------


## SVC

> Yes it will. Anabolic steroids impact HDL/LDL cholesterol ratio when we run our cycles, so you can imagine these year long mega dose "cycles used by the "pros" will affect the cardio vascular system.
> 
> My main problem with SVCs argument is that he is comparing us to guys who are rumured to take well over 5g of total AAS intake per week. Not to mention it's stacked with high dosages of HGH, IGF-1 etc



My cholesterol never went over 130 so did I ever abuse anything? - have I had numerous problems? - yes

----------


## Jackman

> Yes, I would send them if I couldn't sway them. 
> 
> You've got a few obnoxious, disrespectful fools on here but you've got some thinkers as well. 
> 
> I would recommend you start banning people who contribute nothing but flames...


we do ban them already, thats why you got warned by bdtr  :Devil Grin:

----------


## SVC

> we do ban them already, thats why you got warned by bdtr


A MassSwole, I should have known  :Smilie: 

What town are you in?

----------


## DADDYDBOL

> Take it from someone who's worked with many top pros for years... they don't use anywhere near as much stuff as you think they do.




ehhhh....i don't about that one.....2grams ew isn't uncommon for a 260lb bber off season......

----------


## DADDYDBOL

see svc i think you're running into so much resistence here bc we are here to educate ourselves and others so we don't end up like you....now if you went to a college town on spring break and starting telling those type guys i think you would get a more posistive response.....

gotta love college kids....i make a killing every spring....lol (i'm just joking)

----------


## BajanBastard

> My cholesterol never went over 130 so did I ever abuse anything? - have I had numerous problems? - yes


You know steriod "abuse" is a funny thing. The dosages we take to build muscle are well above the therapudic dosages use to treat sick people so i guess we are all "abusing" sterods. As for your statement about the pro "cycles" only the pros and their nutritionists (eg Ronnie and Chad) know what the athlete is taking. So i can't say so and so takes blah blah blah. However these dudes are not taking 500mg test per wk either!!

----------


## DADDYDBOL

> My cholesterol never went over 130 so did I ever abuse anything? - have I had numerous problems? - yes




svc....have you ever thought you may just have really s_hitty luck when it comes to your health?

----------


## SVC

> ehhhh....i don't about that one.....2grams ew isn't uncommon for a 260lb bber off season......


believe it, more isn't better.

Kids grow like weeds while going through puberty when their bodies are producing around 18 mgs of test per day. Why would anyone need more than 400mg of Test per week? (400 divided by 7 = 57.14 mgs of Test per day) as adults? That's 3 times more than most produce per day as teens.

Does 15 aspirin get rid of headaches any better than 2? More isn't better...

----------


## SVC

> see svc i think you're running into so much resistence here bc we are here to educate ourselves and others so we don't end up like you....now if you went to a college town on spring break and starting telling those type guys i think you would get a more posistive response.....
> 
> gotta love college kids....i make a killing every spring....lol (i'm just joking)



That would explain a lot... You take all of this so personally... it may be because you're afraid I'll effect your sales...

"Come on kids, find the D-Bol in Daddy's pockets..." 

if it's true, there's a special place reserved for you in Hell bro.

----------


## DADDYDBOL

> believe it, more isn't better.
> 
> Kids grow like weeds while going through puberty when their bodies are producing around 18 mgs of test per day. Why would anyone need more than 400mg of Test per week? (400 divided by 7 = 57.14 mgs of Test per day) as adults? That's 3 times more than most produce per day as teens.
> 
> Does 15 aspirin get rid of headaches any better than 2? More isn't better...



well i did my first one at 400mgs ew....then went up to 600 and then 750 and the last 2 have been over a gram ew.....and to be really honest with you....test doesn't get good until you hit a gram....see below  :Smilie:  

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=114176

thats just me talking and since i know you won't admit to bending the truth to fit your agenda i'm just wasting my time....so i'll see you

----------


## SVC

> svc....have you ever thought you may just have really s_hitty luck when it comes to your health?



Yeah, me and almost every other guy I trained with... some pushed very little weight and cycled very mildly...

----------


## BajanBastard

> believe it, more isn't better.
> 
> Kids grow like weeds while going through puberty when their bodies are producing around 18 mgs of test per day. Why would anyone need more than 400mg of Test per week? (400 divided by 7 = 57.14 mgs of Test per day) as adults? That's 3 times more than most produce per day as teens.
> 
> Does 15 aspirin get rid of headaches any better than 2? More isn't better...


When it comes to anabolic steriods more is better. 400mg is better than 200mg. 800mg is better than 400mg. With that out of the way i'm not saying of go inject 5000mg of test per day because more is better but you have to use an optimal dose. Optimal dose=maximal gains with mimimal sides.

----------


## DADDYDBOL

> That would explain a lot... You take all of this so personally... it may be because you're afraid I'll effect your sales...
> 
> "Come on kids, find the D-Bol in Daddy's pockets..." 
> 
> if it's true, there's a special place reserved for you in Hell bro.




lol....i'm not a source and when i get to hell i'm kicking the devil out...lol


out of all the bs you talk i will agree guys need to wait until at least 22 to use gear....

----------


## SVC

> When at come to anabolic steriods more is better. 400mg is better than 200mg. 800mg is better than 400mg. With that out of the way i'm not saying of go inject 5000mg of test per day because more is better but you have to use an optimal dose. Optimal dose=maximal gains with mimimal sides.



I don't know where you got that info. I'm telling you, I made the best gains when I took 200mgs of TE, 100mgs of DE*A & 100mgs of PRIMO D per week & 20mg of NOLVA (ED)

----------


## DADDYDBOL

> I don't know where you got that info. I'm telling you, I made the best gains when I took 200mgs of TE, 100mgs of DE*A & 100mgs of PRIMO D per week & 20mg of NOLVA (ED)




so what your saying is you will inject enough to expose you to sides but not enough to get quality gains from? 


and bro, i promise you a gram is better than 200mgs....200mgs...what a waste of good test......


and i'm not taking this personally....actually i have a smile on my face....pretty much everyone here has told you what they thought of you and you stay....so i give you props for taking all the abuse.....

----------


## DADDYDBOL

> 20mg of NOLVA (ED)




just fyi....10mgs is all you need....you want to prevent gyno but remember they are competing for receptor sites.....

----------


## DADDYDBOL

svc....what do you think of Drive?

----------


## BajanBastard

> I don't know where you got that info. I'm telling you, I made the best gains when I took 200mgs of TE, 100mgs of DE*A & 100mgs of PRIMO D per week & 20mg of NOLVA (ED)


All results from AAS usage are dose dependant from the amount of fat you lose to the amount of muscle/strength you gain. Shall i post a study or two or ten?

----------


## MER

> http://www.steroids.org/side_effects.htm


No you said at age 23. The link you gave me is basic knowledge, not trying to rip on you but you talk like you have a mountain of knowledge and I was wondering of the credentials/degrees you hold?

----------


## Decakur

Amazing althought...  :Welcome:

----------


## SVC

> just fyi....10mgs is all you need....you want to prevent gyno but remember they are competing for receptor sites.....


I was told by a chemist & pharmacist that NOLVA is not in your system for 24 hours and they don't recommend splitting the tabs - since 10 mg is the lowest potency - they recommended 10 mg in the AM & 10 mg in the PM.

----------


## SVC

> No you said at age 23. The link you gave me is basic knowledge, not trying to rip on you but you talk like you have a mountain of knowledge and I was wondering of the credentials/degrees you hold?


I didn't have time to pull up a plethora of info on the subject so I pointed him to 1 particular website that has info on growth plates...

Several (none that I care to mention on this forum) and over 25 years of experience.

----------


## DADDYDBOL

> I was told by a chemist & pharmacist that NOLVA is not in your system for 24 hours and they don't recommend splitting the tabs - since 10 mg is the lowest potency - they recommended 10 mg in the AM & 10 mg in the PM.




not bashing you but how many cycles did the chemist/pharmacist do? from newbies to guys walking on stage they will all tell you that 10mgs is all you need...thats just known

now i have had tabs that weren't scored so i just took a tab every day(20mgs) bc if they aren't scored they most likely aren't equally dosed....but if scored i take 10mgs....

actually my last cycle i didn't take any and ran the test at 1250mgs....so i'll be going old school from now on and just taking it only if i feel an itch....

----------


## SVC

> All results from AAS usage is dose dependant from the amount of fat you lose to the amount of muscle/strength you gain. Shall i post a study or two or ten?


Studies from where? Your Nurse's Encyclopedia? I go by personal experience and the actual experience of others I've interviewed. 

If you're putting all your faith and health in a PDR, you may be sorry you did, down the road...

----------


## GymDog

> WOW! 100 iu's a day... your insurance company must hate you worse than mine  That was costing them some cake! But hey, most insurance companies have 200 billion+ in assets. 
> 
> What brand did they have you on? Serono Saizon, Lilly Humatrope...?
> 
> What are your IGF-1 levels like?


Yeah, we had good insurance too! I can't remember how much, but I remember it was only a fraction of the price. When I was first put on, I believe it was Somatropin or some jazz like that, then I was switched to Humatrope and took that the rest of the way through. I honestly don't know about my IGF-1 levels, which is one of my concerns. I didn't have health insurance for four years, and I'm now just getting back on in Jan '05. I didn't even find out that I may have GH levels too low as an adult until around 2001-2002. We'll see what they say next month...

----------


## SVC

> not bashing you but how many cycles did the chemist/pharmacist do? from newbies to guys walking on stage they will all tell you that 10mgs is all you need...thats just known
> 
> now i have had tabs that weren't scored so i just took a tab every day(20mgs) bc if they aren't scored they most likely aren't equally dosed....but if scored i take 10mgs....
> 
> actually my last cycle i didn't take any and ran the test at 1250mgs....so i'll be going old school from now on and just taking it only if i feel an itch....



Chemists & pharmacists that advised top guys... Guys whose names you'd know...

You don't get nauseous from 1250mgs of test per week? Please don't tell me you're taking 3 - A50's per day too. You don't think 1250mgs of test is a little excessive? Do you feel any benefit over 400mgs? Strength, size...?

----------


## DADDYDBOL

svc...i just figured it out...lol....why you're spending so much time on a pro as board....you wanna jump on something....thats cool....i trust you....hit me up with a secure addy and i'll send you someone....lol....pretty sneaky.....gain our trust by acting like your against it.....lol

----------


## SVC

> Yeah, we had good insurance too! I can't remember how much, but I remember it was only a fraction of the price. When I was first put on, I believe it was Somatropin or some jazz like that, then I was switched to Humatrope and took that the rest of the way through. I honestly don't know about my IGF-1 levels, which is one of my concerns. I didn't have health insurance for four years, and I'm now just getting back on in Jan '05. I didn't even find out that I may have GH levels too low as an adult until around 2001-2002. We'll see what they say next month...



I can't believe you were able to get insurance with your pre-existing conditions... I will never get rid of my health insurance because nobody else will ever take me on after... 

GH won't do much unless you have enough IGF-1 in your system...

----------


## KGBnine

this thread is still going?!-AMAZING!  :Smilie:  Anyway SVC, Of those ppl you mentioned that died (the 76) do you think most were long-time steroid users (15+ years)? Just wondering, because I dont plan on taking more than a few cycles (which most ppl probably start out saying).

----------


## DADDYDBOL

> You don't get nauseous from 1250mgs of test per week? Please don't tell me you're taking 3 - A50's per day too. You don't think 1250mgs of test is a little excessive? Do you feel any benefit over 400mgs? Strength, size...?




no no nausea....well with deca i get headaches and feel overheated but thats high bp which is common....but with test i felt good....i did have elevated bp but other than that and a few zits nothing serious...

yeah man, i did. i mean the strength and the weight gains that came with uping my dose really was noticeable....now i know thats alot of test for me...i'm only around 220....i probably won't go that high next time but i just ran test....well 40mgs dbol weeks 1-4 and 75mgs anadrol ed weeks 22-26 (yeah i know....my boys told me not to but i really liked the weight gain and the jump it added to the end of the cycle of course it was mostly water) but yeah overall i would say 750-1000mgs is where you really notice things....now i wouldn't suggest a newbie running that bc he wouldn't know how his body will react.....

----------


## SVC

> svc...i just figured it out...lol....why you're spending so much time on a pro as board....you wanna jump on something....thats cool....i trust you....hit me up with a secure addy and i'll send you someone....lol....pretty sneaky.....gain our trust by acting like your against it.....lol



just dvd research bro. trust me if I wanted anything I could get it pretty easily... my days of cycling are over, I'm burnt to a crisp...

----------


## Decakur

This thread is ****ing HUGE.. and amazing, let it be so  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## DADDYDBOL

> just dvd research bro. trust me if I wanted anything I could get it pretty easily... my days of cycling are over, I'm burnt to a crisp...




so i do i get a free dvd?

----------


## KGBnine

> This thread is ****ing HUGE.. and amazing, let it be so


time to expand your vocalulary past: the, thread, and amazing.

----------


## DADDYDBOL

> just dvd research bro. trust me if I wanted anything I could get it pretty easily... my days of cycling are over, I'm burnt to a crisp...




AND FOR THE RECORD I AM FULL OF SHAT....I KNOW NO SOURCES.....I KNOW NOTHING....UNDERSTAND? DON'T PM ME!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## SVC

> AND FOR THE RECORD I AM FULL OF SHAT....I KNOW NO SOURCES.....I KNOW NOTHING....UNDERSTAND? DON'T PM ME!!!!!!!!!!


Have I ever PM-ed you?

----------


## DADDYDBOL

> Have I ever PM-ed you?



oh no bro....not you....just getting pm'd already and i want to make it clear to everyone....


I AM NOT A SOURCE NOR DO I KNOW ANY!!!!!!!!! SO DON'T ASK!!!!!!!

----------


## SVC

> this thread is still going?!-AMAZING!  Anyway SVC, Of those ppl you mentioned that died (the 76) do you think most were long-time steroid users (15+ years)? Just wondering, because I dont plan on taking more than a few cycles (which most ppl probably start out saying).


No, not all of them... 

Good thinking...

----------


## GymDog

> I can't believe you were able to get insurance with your pre-existing conditions... I will never get rid of my health insurance because nobody else will ever take me on after... 
> 
> GH won't do much unless you have enough IGF-1 in your system...


Well, I got lucky. I was tested as a child and my parents had me covered with health insurance. So I was golden. At 17, docs gave me the thumbs up and said I was done with my treatment, HOWEVER, this was only because docs weren't yet aware of the importance of GH as an adult, with organ function and so forth. I only discovered a couple years ago that adults need GH too. Since the doctors don't know for sure whether I will need lifetime treatment of HGH or not w/o testing me; that's how I am covered. I don't know whether my GH levels are low, but my guess would be "yes", since as a child, I didn't even register on the scales when they tested my GH levels. I guess I was probably born with a bad pituitary gland...

----------


## SMYL_GR8

> believe it, more isn't better.
> 
> Kids grow like weeds while going through puberty when their bodies are producing around 18 mgs of test per day. Why would anyone need more than 400mg of Test per week? (400 divided by 7 = 57.14 mgs of Test per day) as adults? That's 3 times more than most produce per day as teens.
> 
> Does 15 aspirin get rid of headaches any better than 2? More isn't better...


I'm a firm believer in a healthy mix of academic fact with real-world experience, so I don't doubt that you've seen better overall results with lower doses of test, but on a strictly theoretical basis the aspirin analogy is not a good one because a certain amount of aspirin will inhibit COX1 in the prostaglandin pathway and once it's inhibited, that's it. Taking more aspirin will not result in a GREATER inhibition. However, with AS, the steroid receptor sites will not fully saturated by a low level of test. Higher levels of test will create more pathway stimulation. Like I said, this is theoretically true, but must be combined with real-world findings.

----------


## BajanBastard

> Studies from where? Your Nurse's Encyclopedia? I go by personal experience and the actual experience of others I've interviewed. 
> 
> If you're putting all your faith and health in a PDR, you may be sorry you did, down the road...


Here you go again with your condescending "I'm never wrong" attitude. So you're saying that the experiences of the members of this forum and studies from journals, universities etc are all wrong against what you and you alone say right?

----------


## SVC

> Well, I got lucky. I was tested as a child and my parents had me covered with health insurance. So I was golden. At 17, docs gave me the thumbs up and said I was done with my treatment, HOWEVER, this was only because docs weren't yet aware of the importance of GH as an adult, with organ function and so forth. I only discovered a couple years ago that adults need GH too. Since the doctors don't know for sure whether I will need lifetime treatment of HGH or not w/o testing me; that's how I am covered. I don't know whether my GH levels are low, but my guess would be "yes", since as a child, I didn't even register on the scales when they tested my GH levels. I guess I was probably born with a bad pituitary gland...


Yes, if they gave you GH as a child your pituitary gland wasn't secreting enough.

Good luck in the future and like you stated earlier, thank God they didn't give you GH in 85 when it came from cadavers...

----------


## SVC

> I'm a firm believer in a healthy mix of academic fact with real-world experience, so I don't doubt that you've seen better overall results with lower doses of test, but on a strictly theoretical basis the aspirin analogy is not a good one because a certain amount of aspirin will inhibit COX1 in the prostaglandin pathway and once it's inhibited, that's it. Taking more aspirin will not result in a GREATER inhibition. However, with AS, the steroid receptor sites will not fully saturated by a low level of test. Higher levels of test will create more pathway stimulation. Like I said, this is theoretically true, but must be combined with real-world findings.


Well said. 

I should have used a COX2 inhibitor for my analogy (like Vioxx). j/k A miracle drug which turned out to have severe side effects in some people. Maybe once there's thorough studies of healthy humans using AS there will be reliable data available.

----------


## SVC

> Here you go again with your condescending "I'm never wrong" attitude. So you're saying that the experiences of the members of this forum and studies from journals, universities etc are all wrong against what you and you alone say right?


I didn't mean to sound condescending. 

Which studies are you referring to in particular? I want to see the actual study of healthy adults using AS which states that more AS is better than less. Not studies on mice, or rabbits, studies on humans. Thanks man

----------


## peaker

mate you have to realize that people on this board come here to learn about drugs, side effects and how to combat them before they happen and after. there is a big difference between use and abuse, so please dont put every guy on this board in the later. its also clear that some of the things you have said are still old school. alot of the bros here know alot more than you do even after all your problems, so its hard for you to preach and give AS a worse name than it already has but the fact is that we have the information today, especially with boards like this to discuss and advise each other before jumping on cycles, therefore in my opinion less risk than your days of AS use.

i wish you all the best for your health in the future, please dont bash guys on this board for having differing views on AS.

with all this said still going to bump to 1 gram of test next time around. not getting the results that i would like at 500mg on my 2nd cycle. i dont think 500mg at 222lbs is enough to get the results most of us are after. 

all this talk about 1gram being the magic number has got me excited  :Strong Smiley:

----------


## MER

SVC I will congradulate you on your past physique though bro. You did quite well. Cept you neck raises  :Devil Grin:

----------


## Decakur

:Welcome:

----------


## *Narkissos*

> 


lemme guess...

AMAZING
(right?)

 :LOL:

----------


## KINGKONG

> lemme guess...
> 
> AMAZING
> (right?)


LOL  :LOL:

----------


## seanw

> lemme guess...
> 
> AMAZING
> (right?)


Brilliant !!!  :LOL:   :LOL:

----------


## 2timer

booohoooo! I am crying ! this guy deserves every single thing he got. 13 compound? what a dumbass! this is exactly why some people should not be allowed to use steroids . there is no limitations! if you take too many aspirin it can hurt you. jeez I hope people like him get banned becuase they are ruining everything for us.

----------


## KGBnine

> booohoooo! I am crying ! this guy deserves every single thing he got. 13 compound? what a dumbass! this is exactly why some people should not be allowed to use steroids. there is no limitations! if you take too many aspirin it can hurt you. jeez I hope people like him get banned becuase they are ruining everything for us.


I think you should read the WHOLE thread, as your comments show you have come into this thread late.And why should he get banned??  :Hmmmm:

----------


## SMYL_GR8

> booohoooo! I am crying ! this guy deserves every single thing he got. 13 compound? what a dumbass! this is exactly why some people should not be allowed to use steroids. there is no limitations! if you take too many aspirin it can hurt you. jeez I hope people like him get banned becuase they are ruining everything for us.


Last time I checked, NONE of us are allowed to use steroids . There is value in his story. There are people making the same mistakes as we speak. No one deserves joint replacements and chronic pain.

----------


## SVC

> booohoooo! I am crying ! this guy deserves every single thing he got. 13 compound? what a dumbass! this is exactly why some people should not be allowed to use steroids. there is no limitations! if you take too many aspirin it can hurt you. jeez I hope people like him get banned becuase they are ruining everything for us.



foooooool Please read the thread all the way through so I don't have to explain myself for the 50th time... basically I took very low dosages of 13 different things for a total of 6 weeks. The rest of my cycles consisted of 1 androgen & 2 anabolics. 

Judging by how abrasive your post is, you're most likely a 1 gram of test per week and 3 - A50 (aka Draino) type of dude. Is that better in your mind?

----------


## Son Of Khadafi

> I'm not trying to judge, bash or preach to adults over the age of 23 that are able to make a rational decision. I'm trying to communicate to kids that don't realize if they cycle before the age of 23, they can't grow any taller because their growth plates stabilize and also show them the possible repercussions of abuse.
> 
> Nearly half a million middle- and high-schoolers admit to at least trying anabolic steroids , according to the National Institute on Drug Abuse.
> 
> I once shared the same opinions many of you do. Once the juice was totally out of my system, I could see more clearly... When I did the cycle with 13 steroids at the same time it was for 8 weeks. I always went off for 6 months out of the year, from June to January. I NEVER DID MORE THAN 200 MGS. OF TEST PER WEEK. I never did anadrol 50 or any toxic orals either. My SGOTS never went over 50. I was doing small amounts of many. My cycles were mild compared to what others were and are doing. Especially compared to the original reference guide THE UNDERGROUND STEROID HANDBOOK, author Dan Duchaine died at 48. I NEVER ABUSED PAIN KILLERS & I STILL DON'T TAKE THEM. 
> 
> Do you guys think it's normal that some shoot 50cc's of synthol, just so they can walk around with big arms, with no intention of ever competing?
> 
> Do you think the early death and health problems of the following was normal?
> ...


Spicolli?! That guy was fat, he was on aas? Anyway, you'd find a lot more and younger people who died from alcohol and related accidents, yet the government doesn't arrest people for distributing that. If you take steroids you should be man enough to take any possible consequences with the benefits. Schwarzenegger is a f**king millionare, famous and is the governor of the state of California. I'm sure that outweighs high cholestoral!

----------


## KINGKONG

[ Schwarzenegger is a f**king millionare, famous and is the governor of the state of California. I'm sure that outweighs high cholestoral![/QUOTE]
Thats the truth...

----------


## SVC

> Spicolli?! That guy was fat, he was on aas? Anyway, you'd find a lot more and younger people who died from alcohol and related accidents, yet the government doesn't arrest people for distributing that. If you take steroids you should be man enough to take any possible consequences with the benefits. Schwarzenegger is a f**king millionare, famous and is the governor of the state of California. I'm sure that outweighs high cholestoral!


How many Arnold's are out there? Any other bodybuilders you know that have made 1/100th of the money he made?

He had open heart surgery a few years ago and it wasn't because of hi cholesterol.

What about all the other names on the list? You brought up 2. What about the 10's of thousands of guys you've never heard of that are screwed up? I know about 50 from my area alone. Almost everyone I knew that juiced 20 years ago is a mess now.

----------


## KINGKONG

> How many Arnold's are out there? Any other bodybuilders you know that have made 1/100th of the money he made?
> 
> He had open heart surgery a few years ago and it wasn't because of hi cholesterol.
> 
> What about all the other names on the list? You brought up 2. What about the 10's of thousands of guys you've never heard of that are screwed up? I know about 50 from my area alone. Almost everyone I knew that juiced 20 years ago is a mess now.


you and your friends seemed pretty extreme though....the 1% er's

----------


## BajanBastard

Hey guys there is to need to attack SVC. The thread is going well and I would rather not see it locked.

SVC i'll have those studies (human) for you soon I've been a bit busy.

----------


## Son Of Khadafi

you missed my point. they chose to take aas and should know that there are possible consequences. they made their decisions on their own, no one put a gun to their heads and made them take it.

----------


## SVC

> Hey guys there is to need to attack SVC. The thread is going well and I would rather not see it locked.
> 
> SVC i'll have those studies (human) for you soon I've been a bit busy.


Cool, thanks

----------


## SVC

> you missed my point. they chose to take aas and should know that there are possible consequences. they made their decisions on their own, no one put a gun to their heads and made them take it.


You're absolutely correct. The mistake I made 20 years ago was thinking there was no way it could happen to me. I believed the late Dan Duchaine's "Underground Steroid Handbook" which had the same mind set of many of today's users.

I'm not trying to get through to people like you, because you already know there's a risk when using AS. Many on this board believe there's no risk at all if they're careful, I beg to differ.

My main reason for producing the DVD SteroidsViciousCycles.com was to make kids aware of the dangers of using AS too young, before they're old enough to make a rational decision...

----------


## SVC

I've already received about 10 PM's and emails from this board, similar to this one.(below). This is what makes all the bashing I've taken worth it.


Hey man whats up. Im mailing u to thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience on AR. Im 20 years old and have been training for a little over 2 years. I was 5' 6'' 125lbs when i started. Im a little over 170lbs now. Ive made great gains without any juice. I was originally planning to do a cycle this summer.....but u have totally made me reconsider juicing now....and maybe even ever doing it down the road. My main thing is i really wanna do this show in thats coming up in about a year from now. Its a non-testing show. Im afraid its not even going to be worth me competing with guys that are all juiced up. And if i do a natural competition all the....well most of the guys are just beating the drug tests and call theyre selfs "natural"....makes me sick. The main thing is that i really wanna compete. Should i just wait a few years and then do my first show? I just dont wanna get totally blown away and then turn to juice so i can compete with these guys.

thanks bro
"wish u good luck with your health"

----------


## 2timer

listen, man makes his own bed. I couldn't care how late I have been in this conversation... come on buddy 13 compound ,it is obvious you have obseesion problems. and that is the thing that needs to get fixed not your steroid usage. if you have no control then you should have not taken steroids and this probably because of mental problems that you did. no I am not 1g guy! I take 500mg test and winstrol once or twice a year for 10-12 weeks and I am perfectly happy with it. man, you should be helping kids to prevent obssesion and addiction usually caused by mental problems rather then steroid usage bs. yes, steroid is bad but so is smoking and drinking even drinking coffee but in moderation none of them can be that harmfull. anyways I am not a "foool" I wasn't the one that was using my body like guini pig. you were! all the dumbass pros are fools too. pity the fool that can't say no to fortune at the expense of their own health. I mean I would pay money not to look like ronnie coleman I mean what is the point! hey if you are here to redeem yourself then that is defferent story but please don't tell us bs about steroid usage !take care though!  :Cool:

----------


## SVC

> listen, man makes his own bed. I couldn't care how late I have been in this conversation... come on buddy 13 compound ,it is obvious you have obseesion problems. and that is the thing that needs to get fixed not your steroid usage. if you have no control then you should have not taken steroids and this probably because of mental problems that you did. no I am not 1g guy! I take 500mg test and winstrol once or twice a year for 10-12 weeks and I am perfectly happy with it. man, you should be helping kids to prevent obssesion and addiction usually caused by mental problems rather then steroid usage bs. yes, steroid is bad but so is smoking and drinking even drinking coffee but in moderation none of them can be that harmfull. anyways I am not a "foool" I wasn't the one that was using my body like guini pig. you were! all the dumbass pros are fools too. pity the fool that can't say no to fortune at the expense of their own health. I mean I would pay money not to look like ronnie coleman I mean what is the point! hey if you are here to redeem yourself then that is defferent story but please don't tell us bs about steroid usage !take care though!


NOTE TO SELF (don't argue with anyone who can't read) 13 things (low doses) ONCE FOR 6 WEEKS - 3 things at the most every other cycle - 6 months off (june - jan - every year) That sound obsessive?

hmmm You would "pay money not to look like ronnie coleman" first of all, you could take enough juice to kill a charging rhino and you WOULD NEVER LOOK LIKE RONNIE COLEMAN. So you don't have to worry about that. AS is only polish. There's a lot more variables involved...

Why are you cycling? Are you a professional athlete? Are you cycling just so you can walk around big? AT LEAST SOME OF THE TOP PROS ARE MAKING A LIVING FROM THE RISK. 

WHAT'S YOUR EXCUSE?

----------


## KGBnine

> listen, man makes his own bed. I couldn't care how late I have been in this conversation... come on buddy 13 compound ,it is obvious you have obseesion problems. and that is the thing that needs to get fixed not your steroid usage. if you have no control then you should have not taken steroids and this probably because of mental problems that you did. no I am not 1g guy! I take 500mg test and winstrol once or twice a year for 10-12 weeks and I am perfectly happy with it. man, you should be helping kids to prevent obssesion and addiction usually caused by mental problems rather then steroid usage bs. yes, steroid is bad but so is smoking and drinking even drinking coffee but in moderation none of them can be that harmfull. anyways I am not a "foool" I wasn't the one that was using my body like guini pig. you were! all the dumbass pros are fools too. pity the fool that can't say no to fortune at the expense of their own health. I mean I would pay money not to look like ronnie coleman I mean what is the point! hey if you are here to redeem yourself then that is defferent story but please don't tell us bs about steroid usage !take care though!


Your post is asinine because "you couldn't care less if you came in late". Anyways, WHy don't you go to the gym anymore SVC? I noticed your site said you only use a machine (bowflex I believe it was) ?

----------


## SMYL_GR8

> Schwarzenegger is a f**king millionare, famous and is the governor of the state of California. I'm sure that outweighs high cholestoral!


This is one of the most ignorant posts in this thread. How could you possibly relate Arnold's AS use to his post-BB success? If you're going to make an argument, PUH-LEEZ think it through.

----------


## KINGKONG

> This is one of the most ignorant posts in this thread. How could you possibly relate Arnold's AS use to his post-BB success? If you're going to make an argument, PUH-LEEZ think it through.


I think he was talking about injuries to particular bodybuilders..If you scroll up
you'll see there names SVC was trying to make the point that these PPL are dead or about dead because of AS...Then SON of k made the point that arnold is probably only alive because of his money and political power..Thats just what I got out of it..

----------


## Ntpadude

> foooooool Please read the thread all the way through so I don't have to explain myself for the 50th time... basically I took very low dosages of 13 different things for a total of 6 weeks. The rest of my cycles consisted of 1 androgen & 2 anabolics. 
> 
> Judging by how abrasive your post is, you're most likely a 1 gram of test per week and 3 - A50 (aka Draino) type of dude. Is that better in your mind?


Just to let you know.... a good number of us already felt the same way you do about anadrol . Its a little bit too strong of a steroid for anyone to use. There are some other compounds that are very hard on you if you dont know what you are doing with them, Winstrol is another one.

BTW, Your rapid muscle loss after cycle did come from the lack of using clomid. HCG might have helped but once you exit the HCG, you still are left in a state where your natural testosterone is very slow and reluctant to restart, this is the reason people use clomid. It fires up your "natural" production better then anything.

Also as long as you are using an estrogen protective agent like nolva, the reality is, its safer to use mega doses of testosterone (like 1 gram) then it is to take 1/2 gram of testosterone and 1/2 gram of deca , or 1/2 gram of tren , etc... everything that is not testosterone are artificial steroids unlike anything natural in the body except that they "can" hit the same receptors, but the reality is, in PCT your body will recover natural testosterone better on just strictly mega doses of testosterone, then doing stacks of various compounds. 

Also for your information, the FDA has approved testing of Nolva now underway on men who have nothing to do with steroid use , it turns out Nolva causes much increased HDL levels and lower bad cholesterol levels, they found the 40 mg level with nolva to be ideal and it works better with fewer side effects then other cholesterol lowering drugs or mega doses of Niacin. The probable reason for your good cholesterol picture when you did steroids is because you did Nolva. For those of us with bad cholesterol levels, its probably advisable to up the doses of nolva rather then drop to 10 mg because of nolva's beneficial functions for improving your triglicerides and cholesterol levels.

----------


## AG5678

It has been documented that Arnold has had no surgeries due to cause of Steroids . I know he has had a surgery before but it was a disease that ran in the family.

----------


## AG5678

i don't know if i can find the evidence but i'll look

----------


## KINGKONG

> Just to let you know.... a good number of us already felt the same way you do about anadrol . Its a little bit too strong of a steroid for anyone to use. There are some other compounds that are very hard on you if you dont know what you are doing with them, Winstrol is another one.
> 
> BTW, Your rapid muscle loss after cycle did come from the lack of using clomid. HCG might have helped but once you exit the HCG, you still are left in a state where your natural testosterone is very slow and reluctant to restart, this is the reason people use clomid. It fires up your "natural" production better then anything.
> 
> Also as long as you are using an estrogen protective agent like nolva, the reality is, its safer to use mega doses of testosterone (like 1 gram) then it is to take 1/2 gram of testosterone and 1/2 gram of deca , or 1/2 gram of tren , etc... everything that is not testosterone are artificial steroids unlike anything natural in the body except that they "can" hit the same receptors, but the reality is, in PCT your body will recover natural testosterone better on just strictly mega doses of testosterone, then doing stacks of various compounds. 
> 
> Also for your information, the FDA has approved testing of Nolva now underway on men who have nothing to do with steroid use, it turns out Nolva causes much increased HDL levels and lower bad cholesterol levels, they found the 40 mg level with nolva to be ideal and it works better with fewer side effects then other cholesterol lowering drugs or mega doses of Niacin. The probable reason for your good cholesterol picture when you did steroids is because you did Nolva. For those of us with bad cholesterol levels, its probably advisable to up the doses of nolva rather then drop to 10 mg because of nolva's beneficial functions for improving your triglicerides and cholesterol levels.


good post!

----------


## Ntpadude

> Chemists & pharmacists that advised top guys... Guys whose names you'd know...
> 
> You don't get nauseous from 1250mgs of test per week? Please don't tell me you're taking 3 - A50's per day too. You don't think 1250mgs of test is a little excessive? Do you feel any benefit over 400mgs? Strength, size...?


Reality is, 99% of steroid users are using underground labs or mexican gear, so the bottle says 250 mg, but it really has 150 to 170 mg, especially if its from Mexico. 

Most of the time anyone taking more then 500 mg of test E will experience a loss of libido, and yet we hear of these 1 grammers with run away sex drive... thats because they think they are taking 1 gram, but reality is, their 4 CC's of test E probably adds up to 500 to 600 mg of actual test. 

You can probably lower your guard down because 99% of us are using grossly under dosed steroids .

----------


## KINGKONG

> i don't know if i can find the evidence but i'll look


Iam pretty sure he had a triple or quadruple bypass...whether thats from AS
or what whoo no's...Steriods could have aggravated an exsisting genetic flaw in his family..Once again who no's...Iam sure his PR people will tell us shortly
LOL

----------


## SMYL_GR8

> Iam pretty sure he had a triple or quadruple biopsy...whether thats from AS
> or what whoo no's...Steriods could have aggravated an exsisting genetic flaw in his family..Once again who no's...Iam sure his PR people will tell us shortly
> LOL


We have to face reality here. When Arnold needs triple bypass surgery or Reggie White dies early or Giambi gets a pituitary tumor, we all immediately point to how it was genetic/preexisting. I'm not saying there's no truth to that, but I think it's a little naive to think that AS use did not, in some part, *contribute* to these things.

----------


## KINGKONG

> We have to face reality here. When Arnold needs triple bypass surgery or Reggie White dies early or Giambi gets a pituitary tumor, we all immediately point to how it was genetic/preexisting. I'm not saying there's no truth to that, but I think it's a little naive to think that AS use did not, in some part, *contribute* to these things.


I would say that Iam pretty sure that AS does contibute..But Iam on a steriod board so I'll just say who knows so I don't get flamed..  :Smilie:

----------


## DADDYDBOL

> It has been documented that Arnold has had no surgeries due to cause of Steroids. I know he has had a surgery before but it was a disease that ran in the family.




yeah it was a disease that ran in his family.....not realted to as at all.....

----------


## Ntpadude

> How many Arnold's are out there? Any other bodybuilders you know that have made 1/100th of the money he made?
> 
> He had open heart surgery a few years ago and it wasn't because of hi cholesterol.
> 
> What about all the other names on the list? You brought up 2. What about the 10's of thousands of guys you've never heard of that are screwed up? I know about 50 from my area alone. Almost everyone I knew that juiced 20 years ago is a mess now.


Well I am almost 40 and to be honest, almost everyone I knew from 20 years ago do not/did not use steroids , and a good percentage of these guys have health troubles from age, some have died of accidents and/or natural causes. Some have arthritus and have had to have hip replacements (at the age of 35). 

Dont confuse getting old and blame everything on steroids because take away the steroids from the history and chances are your friends or even YOU might still have some pre-ordained at birth ailments. You could have a rhumidoid arthritus situation going on but since you admitted steroid use , the steroids got the blame but there could be other things at work. I do believe some of the problems may have been accellerated or contributed to by steroid use but I am sure its not 100% to blame across the board.

Also about Arnold... he says he has good genes and only did dbols prior to 1 contest and didnt like it because it was water and came off rapidly afterwards. I tend to believe him. The reason I beleive him is for all these years he still mostly is holding together is size and shape for his age much better then a dude that built his body on steroids. Was it the 1 time steroid use that gave the cholesterol or was it his bulking diet? Usually high protein diets, even whey protein shakes are all real high in cholesterol. In these circumstances is it really the steroid or the diet?

----------


## SVC

> We have to face reality here. When Arnold needs triple bypass surgery or Reggie White dies early or Giambi gets a pituitary tumor, we all immediately point to how it was genetic/preexisting. I'm not saying there's no truth to that, but I think it's a little naive to think that AS use did not, in some part, *contribute* to these things.



Great posts man!

----------


## SVC

> yeah it was a disease that ran in his family.....not realted to as at all.....


Arnold has SPIN DOCTORS that will get the media to say whatever he'd like. I doubt he would ever admit that AS effected his heart... he'd get flamed  :Smilie:

----------


## BigMike J

> Arnold has SPIN DOCTORS that will get the media to say whatever he'd like. I doubt he would ever admit that AS effected his heart... he'd get flamed



The dudes 57 yrs old... there are others who have never thouched a steroid in their life who have these same probelms.

----------


## SVC

> The dudes 57 yrs old... there are others who have never thouched a steroid in their life who have these same probelms.


He had the surgery a few years ago. Ever hear of any natural exercise fanatics needing open heart surgery at 55? Jack Lalane was still pulling boats with his teeth when he was 85  :Smilie:

----------


## Aboot

> He had the surgery a few years ago. Ever hear of any natural exercise fanatics needing open heart surgery at 55? Jack Lalane was still pulling boats with his teeth when he was 85


Yes, it's called genetics. Reggie Lewis???

----------


## SVC

> Yes, it's called genetics. Reggie Lewis???


Please don't tell me you believe REGGIE LEWIS WAS LIFETIME NATURAL... YOU MUST BE SH**TING ME.

----------


## redwizza

i appreciate this thread very much. i must say that both sides have good points. i dont think supplementing with a moderate amount of testosterone for no longer than 8-14 weeks with LOTS of time off between and with consistent habit of healthy eating and general life style will do any of the things stated or revealed by the dude. however, there is the other side of it all, LOTS of young 20 something yr olds who are using fina, t3, winny, dbol , drol...ect for no good reason again and again will see much of the damages mentioned. i am a firm believer of that. im talking about those who do not even look big for a natural guy (at least HALF of ppl on this board, im sry but it must be said). alot of ppl around here have no reason to use these compounds whatsoever but the mere reason of getting a false sence of hugeness and great strength. i have seen it again and again, that most of what is gained by these ppl is water. i have done about 3-4 cycles in the past 2.5 yrs (starting at 23) and i must say that, and now been natural for 4 months now. i have kept everything from the last cycle because it was a mild one consisting of ONLY sustanon and some clomid/nolva post cycle. anything i did beyond that gave me alot of sides (dbol, fina, deca ). its SOO not worth it for me. major depression from the fina test cycle i did a year ago and it was not a big or long cycle at all. and my god i looked exactly like the dude in his after pics with the puffy nips, and ALL was gone, its quite amazing i looked smaller than before i ever started cycling. 

point: at least the 20 somethings should take this thread to heart. i really advocate going natural and at most just try moderate test cycles, coz we all deserve to live a long life.  :Smilie:

----------


## Aboot

> Please don't tell me you believe REGGIE LEWIS WAS LIFETIME NATURAL... YOU MUST BE SH**TING ME.


So every athlete who dies of a heart complication is using steriods , despite the fact that millions of people around the world are born with genetic heart defects and will either die of it at an early age or need surgery? 

What was Reggie Lewis taking?

----------


## SVC

> i appreciate this thread very much. i must say that both sides have good points. i dont think supplementing with a moderate amount of testosterone for no longer than 8-14 weeks with LOTS of time off between and with consistent habit of healthy eating and general life style will do any of the things stated or revealed by the dude. however, there is the other side of it all, LOTS of young 20 something yr olds who are using fina, t3, winny, dbol , drol...ect for no good reason again and again will see much of the damages mentioned. i am a firm believer of that. im talking about those who do not even look big for a natural guy (at least HALF of ppl on this board, im sry but it must be said). alot of ppl around here have no reason to use these compounds whatsoever but the mere reason of getting a false sence of hugeness and great strength. i have seen it again and again, that most of what is gained by these ppl is water. i have done about 3-4 cycles in the past 2.5 yrs (starting at 23) and i must say that, and now been natural for 4 months now. i have kept everything from the last cycle because it was a mild one consisting of ONLY sustanon and some clomid/nolva post cycle. anything i did beyond that gave me alot of sides (dbol, fina, deca ). its SOO not worth it for me. major depression from the fina test cycle i did a year ago and it was not a big or long cycle at all. and my god i looked exactly like the dude in his after pics with the puffy nips, and ALL was gone, its quite amazing i looked smaller than before i ever started cycling. 
> 
> point: at least the 20 somethings should take this thread to heart. i really advocate going natural and at most just try moderate test cycles, coz we all deserve to live a long life.



GREAT POST! Where were you & SMYL GR8 2 weeks ago when it was me against THE CHURCH OF JUICE?  :Smilie:  When stating the fact that there are potential side effects from AS was considered blasphemy  :Smilie:

----------


## SVC

> So every athlete who dies of a heart complication is using steriods , despite the fact that millions of people around the world are born with genetic heart defects and will either die of it at an early age or need surgery? 
> 
> What was Reggie Lewis taking?



When Reggie Lewis was playing it was almost a prerequisite that all defensive lineman be juiced to the gills. He weighed around 300lbs, he was fast as lightning and strong as sh*t. Wake up and smell the Folgers  :Smilie:

----------


## Aboot

> When Reggie Lewis was playing it was almost a prerequisite that all defensive lineman be juiced to the gills. He weighed around 300lbs, he was fast as lightning and strong as sh*t. Wake up and smell the Folgers



I see where the confusion is. You're talking about Reggie White, I'm talking about Reggie Lewis, the Boston Celtic, this guy:

http://washingtontimes.com/sports/20...4206-5316r.htm

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## Drummerboy

nuts... never take too much... maybe 2 aas at a time, once a year for 3 mo... thats my thought!

----------


## DADDYDBOL

> When Reggie Lewis was playing it was almost a prerequisite that all defensive lineman be juiced to the gills. He weighed around 300lbs, he was fast as lightning and strong as sh*t. Wake up and smell the Folgers




they are all fast and come preseason.....they are all natural

----------


## Jackman

> A MassSwole, I should have known 
> 
> What town are you in?


northeast of boston near salem.

----------


## SVC

> I see where the confusion is. You're talking about Reggie White, I'm talking about Reggie Lewis, the Boston Celtic, this guy:
> 
> http://washingtontimes.com/sports/20...4206-5316r.htm


My bad - you're right - Reggie White played football. 

Reggie Lewis free based cocaine and died so he is irrelevant to the Arnold conversation...

----------


## Jackman

> Studies from where? Your Nurse's Encyclopedia? I go by personal experience and the actual experience of others I've interviewed. 
> 
> If you're putting all your faith and health in a PDR, you may be sorry you did, down the road...


but isn't that where your chemist and pharmacist get there info?

----------


## SVC

> but isn't that where your chemist and pharmacist get there info?


negative

----------


## Jackman

> Reality is, 99% of steroid users are using underground labs or mexican gear, so the bottle says 250 mg, but it really has 150 to 170 mg, especially if its from Mexico. 
> 
> Most of the time anyone taking more then 500 mg of test E will experience a loss of libido, and yet we hear of these 1 grammers with run away sex drive... thats because they think they are taking 1 gram, but reality is, their 4 CC's of test E probably adds up to 500 to 600 mg of actual test. 
> 
> You can probably lower your guard down because 99% of us are using grossly under dosed steroids.


just cruious how theres only 150mg of test in there.

----------


## Decakur

althougt..

----------


## Jackman

> althougt..


who are you and why do you keep posting nonsence?

----------


## KINGKONG

> just cruious how theres only 150mg of test in there.


because the other bottles stole it...LOL I wouldn't be suprised if alot mexican gear was underdosed...I should get my QV tested just to be sure...

----------


## KINGKONG

> 


you have kept this thread going with one word nonsense....and this was a quote of you quoting yourself saying amazing....

----------


## DEVLDOG

> Yes, it's called genetics. Reggie Lewis???


he was a coke head bro,yeah he had bad heart but it was the coke that made him drop dead so young

----------


## KINGKONG

> he was a coke head bro,yeah he had bad heart but it was the coke that made him drop dead so young


the coke will kill you quick...from what Ive heard  :Devil Grin:

----------


## Decakur

> who are you and why do you keep posting nonsence?


Man i started the thread and just reading all the stuff that
are saying..  :Welcome:

----------


## BajanBastard

> who are you and why do you keep posting nonsence?


Amazing bros!! He's keeping his thread to the top.

----------


## SVC

> Amazing bros!! He's keeping his thread to the top.


Where are the papers? (insert German accent here) Find the documents Big K.L.G., we have ways of making you talk... 

You can't find the studies of humans using AS? The same reason we can't find Sassquash, they don't exist  :Smilie:

----------


## SVC

> So every athlete who dies of a heart complication is using steriods , despite the fact that millions of people around the world are born with genetic heart defects and will either die of it at an early age or need surgery? 
> 
> What was Reggie Lewis taking?



I'm losing it man. I was actually thinking of Len Bias who smoked crack and died... I was never a basketball fan... I was always too short and I waited until I was almost 23 to juice so I can't blame it on the premature growth plate closure...  :Smilie:

----------


## system admin

First time seeing this thread... Welcome SVC! Your coming here shows me your true colors.

Guys... I think this is a record thread for 10 days of posting  :Smilie:  Many of you have done a great job in this discussion. I am happy to see SVC still here 

Have a great New Year and stay safe!!

Bc

----------


## KGBnine

> First time seeing this thread... Welcome SVC! Your coming here shows me your true colors.
> 
> Guys... I think this is a record thread for 10 days of posting  Many of you have done a great job in this discussion. I am happy to see SVC still here 
> 
> Have a great New Year and stay safe!!
> 
> Bc


with 709 replies...where have you been?!  :Strong Smiley:

----------


## BajanBastard

> Where are the papers? (insert German accent here) Find the documents Big K.L.G., we have ways of making you talk... 
> 
> You can't find the studies of humans using AS? The same reason we can't find Sassquash, they don't exist


Sorry to keep you waiting comrade!!



Older Men are as Responsive as Young Men to the Anabolic Effects of Graded Doses of Testosterone on the Skeletal Muscle.

Bhasin S, Woodhouse L, Casaburi R, Singh AB, Phong Mac R, Lee M, Yarasheski KE, Sinha-Hikim I, Dzekov C, Dzekov J, Magliano L, Storer TW.

Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Molecular Medicine, Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, Los Angeles, CA 90059; Division of Respiratory Diseases, Pulmonary Physiology, and Critical Care Medicine, Harbor-UCLA Medical Center, Torrance, CA 90502; Laboratory for Exercise Science, El Camino College, Torrance, CA; Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, & Lipid Research, Washington University School of Medicine, St. Louis, MO 63110 01-1184 Version 3.

Although testosterone levels and muscle mass decline with age, many older men have serum testosterone level in the normal range, leading to speculation whether older men are less sensitive to testosterone. We determined the responsiveness of androgen-dependent outcomes to graded testosterone doses in older men, and compared it to that of young men. The participants in this randomized, double-blind, trial were 60 ambulatory, healthy, older men, 60-75 yr of age, who had normal serum testosterone levels. Their responses to graded doses of testosterone were compared with previous data in 61, 19-35 yr old men. The participants received a long-acting GnRH agonist to suppress endogenous testosterone production and 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg testosterone enanthate weekly for 20 weeks. Fat free (FFM) and fat mass, muscle strength, sexual function, mood, visuospatial cognition, hormone levels, and safety measures were evaluated before, during and after treatment. Of 60 older men who were randomized, 52 completed the study. After adjusting for testosterone dose, changes in serum total testosterone (change -6.8, -1.9, +16.1, +49.5, and +101.9 nmol/L, at 25, 50, 125, 300 at 600 mg*wk(-1), respectively) and hemoglobin (change -3.6, +9.9, +20.9, +12.6, +29.4 g/L at 25, 50, 125, 300, and 600 mg*wk(-1), respectively) levels were dose-related in older men and significantly greater in older men than young men (each P < 0.0001). The changes in FFM (-0.3, +1.7, +4.2, +5.6, +7.3 kg, respectively in five ascending dose groups) and muscle strength in older men were correlated with testosterone dose and concentrations, and were not significantly different in young and older men. Changes in fat mass correlated inversely with testosterone dose (r0.54, P < 0.001) and were significantly different in young and older men (P < 0.0001); young men receiving 25 and 50 mg doses gained more fat mass than older men (P < 0.0001). Sexual function, mood, and visuospatial cognition did not change significantly in either group. Frequency of hematocrit >54%, leg edema, and prostate events was numerically higher in older men than in young men. Conclusion. Older men are as responsive as young men to testosterone's anabolic effects; however, older men have lower testosterone clearance rates, higher increments in hemoglobin, and a higher frequency of adverse effects. Although substantial gains in muscle mass and strength can be realized in older men with supraphysiological testosterone doses, these high doses are associated with high frequency of adverse effects.  


> The men were not given any anti-estrogenic drugs or DHT blockers. So i would not conculude the "adverse" effects would heppen to steriod.com members who take the necessary precautions


.The best trade-off was achieved with a testosterone dose (125 mg) that was associated with high normal testosterone levels, low frequency of adverse events and significant gains in fat-free mass and muscle strength.

PMID: 15562020 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

----------


## BajanBastard

Dose-dependent effects of testosterone on regional adipose tissue distribution in healthy young men.

Woodhouse LJ, Gupta N, Bhasin M, Singh AB, Ross R, Phillips J, Bhasin S.

Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Molecular Medicine, Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, Los Angeles, California 90059, USA. [email protected]

Testosterone supplementation reduces total body adipose tissue (AT), but we do not know whether the effects are uniformly distributed throughout the body or are region specific, or whether they are dose related. We determined the effects of graded doses of testosterone on regional AT distribution in 54 healthy men  (18-35 yr) in a 20-wk, randomized, double-blind study of combined treatment with GnRH agonist plus one of five doses (25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg/wk) of testosterone enanthate (TE). Total body, appendicular, and trunk AT and lean body mass were measured by dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry, and sc, intermuscular, and intraabdominal AT of the thigh and abdomen were measured by magnetic resonance imaging. Treatment regimens resulted in serum nadir testosterone concentrations ranging from subphysiological to supraphysiological levels. Dose-dependent changes in AT mass were negatively correlated with TE dose at all sites and were equally distributed between the trunk and appendices. The lowest dose was associated with gains in sc, intermuscular, and intraabdominal AT, with the greatest percent increase occurring in the sc stores.


> 


  At the three highest TE doses, thigh intermuscular AT volume was significantly reduced,  


> 


 with a greater percent loss in intermuscular than sc depots, whereas intraabdominal AT stores remained unchanged. In conclusion, changes in testosterone concentrations in young men are associated with dose-dependent 


> Think I'll gloat here some more


 and region-specific changes in AT and lean body mass in the appendices and trunk. Lowering testosterone concentrations below baseline increases sc and deep AT stores in the appendices and abdomen, with a greater percent increase in sc depots. Conversely, elevating testosterone concentrations above baseline induces a greater loss of AT from the smaller, deeper intermuscular stores of the thigh.

Publication Types: 
Clinical Trial 
Randomized Controlled Trial 

PMID: 14764787 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

----------


## AG5678

> Sorry to keep you waiting comrade!!
> 
> 
> 
> Older Men are as Responsive as Young Men to the Anabolic Effects of Graded Doses of Testosterone on the Skeletal Muscle.
> 
> Bhasin S, Woodhouse L, Casaburi R, Singh AB, Phong Mac R, Lee M, Yarasheski KE, Sinha-Hikim I, Dzekov C, Dzekov J, Magliano L, Storer TW.
> 
> Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Molecular Medicine, Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, Los Angeles, CA 90059; Division of Respiratory Diseases, Pulmonary Physiology, and Critical Care Medicine, Harbor-UCLA Medical Center, Torrance, CA 90502; Laboratory for Exercise Science, El Camino College, Torrance, CA; Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, & Lipid Research, Washington University School of Medicine, St. Louis, MO 63110 01-1184 Version 3.
> ...


I knew you would respond. great stuff that you write

----------


## BajanBastard

Same study involving the young men different outlook.



Testosterone dose-dependently increases maximal voluntary strength and leg power, but does not affect fatigability or specific tension.

Storer TW, Magliano L, Woodhouse L, Lee ML, Dzekov C, Dzekov J, Casaburi R, Bhasin S.

Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Molecular Medicine, Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, Los Angeles, California 90059, USA. [email protected]

Testosterone supplementation in men increases fat-free mass, but whether measures of muscle performance, such as maximal voluntary strength, power, fatigability, or specific tension, are improved has not been determined. Furthermore, the extent to which these measures of muscle performance are related to testosterone dose or circulating concentration is unknown. To examine the relationship between testosterone dose and muscle performance, 61 healthy, eugonadal young men (aged 18-35 yr) were randomized to 1 of 5 groups, each receiving a long-acting GnRH agonist to suppress endogenous testosterone production plus weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg testosterone enanthate for 20 wk. These doses produced mean nadir testosterone concentrations of 253, 306, 542, 1345, and 2370 ng/dl, respectively. Maximal voluntary muscle strength and fatigability were determined by a seated leg press exercise. Leg power was measured using a validated leg power instrument. Specific tension was estimated by the ratio of one repetition maximum muscle strength to thigh muscle volume determined by magnetic resonance imaging. Testosterone administration was associated with a dose-dependent increase in leg press strength and leg power,


> More points for Steriod .com


 but muscle fatigability did not change significantly during treatment. Changes in leg press strength were significantly correlated with total (r = 0.46; P = 0.0005) and free (r = 0.38; P = 0.006) testosterone as was leg power (total testosterone: r = 0.38; P = 0.007; free testosterone: r = 0.35; P = 0.015), but not muscle fatigability. Serum IGF-I concentrations were not significantly correlated with leg strength, power, or fatigability. Specific tension did not change significantly at any dose. We conclude that the effects of testosterone on muscle performance are specific; it increases maximal voluntary strength and leg power, but does not affect fatigability or specific tension. The changes in leg strength and power are dependent on testosterone dose and circulating testosterone concentrations and exhibit a log-linear relationship with serum total and free testosterone. Failure to observe a significant testosterone dose relationship with fatigability suggests that testosterone does not affect this component of muscle performance and that different components of muscle performance are regulated by different mechanisms.

Publication Types: 
Clinical Trial 
Randomized Controlled Trial 

PMID: 12679426 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

----------


## KGBnine

nice research there Big.

----------


## Decakur

Good job bro! really record out there

----------


## SVC

[QUOTE=big k.l.g]Same study involving the young men different outlook.

QUOTES FROM STUDY

*"these high doses are associated with high frequency of adverse effects."*

If you were using this study to make decisions on your own dosage, why in your mind is more better? 

*"The best trade-off was achieved with a testosterone dose (125 mg) that was associated with high normal testosterone levels, low frequency of adverse events and significant gains in fat-free mass and muscle strength."*

----------


## BigMatt

> Who are you & what are your credentials? If that's you in the back double bi your skin looks like it's about 3 inches thick bro? Your screen name should be George Castanza, "


LOL!

----------


## BigMatt

> I'd like to retract my previous compliment please 
> 
> Don't ever call your self natural if you've done a cycle. Since you have a plethora of knowledge (smell that, that's sarcasm) I'm sure you realize that you retain almost everything you gain from your first cycle. Therefore you have a huge advantage over someone who's lifetime natural. 
> 
> You remind me of the guys that used to tell me they're clean because they took their last shot of Deca the night before at midnight...


Agree.

----------


## SVC

> When it comes to anabolic steriods more is better. 400mg is better than 200mg. 800mg is better than 400mg. With that out of the way i'm not saying of go inject 5000mg of test per day because more is better but you have to use an optimal dose. Optimal dose=maximal gains with mimimal sides.


Care to retract this statement?

----------


## BajanBastard

QUOTES FROM STUDY

*"these high doses are associated with high frequency of adverse effects."*


> The men were not given any anti-estrogenic drugs or DHT blockers. So i would not conculude the "adverse" effects would heppen to steriod.com members who take the necessary precautions


2)Although substantial gains in muscle mass and strength can be realized in older men   with supraphysiological testosterone doses, these high doses are associated with high frequency of adverse effects. 


> It's obvious that older individuals who use androgenic compounds w/o anti-es and/or dht blockers will have problems with prostate, hair loss etc. As I said, practice preventive measures and you'll be fine.


If you were using this study to make decisions on your own dosage, why in your mind is more better?


> I guess you missed the part saying the three HIGHEST dosages of TE WERE THE MOST EFFECTIVE.


*"The best trade-off was achieved with a testosterone dose (125 mg) that was associated with high normal testosterone levels, low frequency of adverse events and significant gains in fat-free mass and muscle strength."*


> Again more is better. This statement does not prove other wise, all it shows that in older men 125mg TE was the best "trade off" aka risk vs reward.


Hey SVC what do you have to say about the study involving the younger test subjects? No adverse sides were reported in the study.

----------


## BajanBastard

> Care to retract this statement?


Why do I have to? I've proven my point. Time for you to prove yours. I guess you missed this part huh?



> i'm not saying of go inject 5000mg of test per day because more is better but you have to use an optimal dose. Optimal dose=maximal gains with mimimal sides.

----------


## SVC

> QUOTES FROM STUDY
> 
> *"these high doses are associated with high frequency of adverse effects."*
> 
> 2)Although substantial gains in muscle mass and strength can be realized in older men   with supraphysiological testosterone doses, these high doses are associated with high frequency of adverse effects. If you were using this study to make decisions on your own dosage, why in your mind is more better? 
> *"The best trade-off was achieved with a testosterone dose (125 mg) that was associated with high normal testosterone levels, low frequency of adverse events and significant gains in fat-free mass and muscle strength."*Hey SVC what do you have to say about the study involving the younger test subjects? No adverse sides were reported in the study.



Younger bodies can initially take more abuse (obviously). It can take years for the problems to show. Do cigarettes kill people the first 20 weeks they start smoking? No, it can take years for the emphysema or lung cancer to show.

THESE STUDIES OBSERVED THE PARTICIPANTS FOR 2O WEEKS, NOT 1 YEAR, OR 2 YEARS OR 20 YEARS.

You sound like the Tobacco Industry 20 years ago when they denied cigarettes caused any health problems at all. (THERE'S A SPECIAL PLACE RESERVED IN HELL FOR THOSE TOBACCO INDUSTRY M***ER F***ERS!!!)

I believe the long term side effects of AS will soon be common knowledge as well.

----------


## Decakur

If you are using AS at a young age (18-19) you will probaly dont 
hurt yourself to much i belive if you do SHORT cycles and not
for a long time, and always stay off at least 6month or a year.

----------


## SVC

> If you are using AS at a young age (18-19) you will probaly dont 
> hurt yourself to much i belive if you do SHORT cycles and not
> for a long time, and always stay off at least 6month or a year.



You shouldn't even consider using AS until you're at least 23 Decakur and/or your epiphyseal plates have stabilized.

I don't think anyone should ever use AS unless they have abnormally low nature testosterone production and they receive a doctor's prescription for it.

----------


## SVC

> Why do I have to? I've proven my point. Time for you to prove yours. I guess you missed this part huh?


You've proven that you're a back peddler  :Smilie: 

This was most likely a bias study funded by a compounding pharmacy. Steroid side effects usually don't show up during someone's first cycle bro.

*WHAT ABOUT POSSIBLE LONG TERM SIDE EFFECTS?* 

We now have a plethora of body bags to give us an idea of those stats...

----------


## BajanBastard

> You shouldn't even consider using AS until you're at least 23 Decakur and/or your epiphyseal plates have stabilized.


 We have guys here who have started from ages ranging 16-20 and they are fine.



> I don't think anyone should ever use AS unless they have abnormally low nature testosterone production and they receive a doctor's prescription for it.


Heresy

----------


## BajanBastard

> You've proven that you're a back peddler


 What issues did I back peddle on? My point is very simple. Use optimal dosages of AAS, enough for maximum muscle growth and minimal sides. 100mg of test per week is not going to cut it.






> This was most likely a bias study funded by a compounding pharmacy. Steroid side effects usually don't show up during someone's first cycle bro.


You demanded studies I put up....now the studies for "biased" lol


> *WHAT ABOUT POSSIBLE LONG TERM SIDE EFFECTS?*


So if a gear-head used optimal doses, controlled and monitored BP, watched RBC count and got blood work before during and after every 10-12 week cycle (steriod .com members are encouraged to do so) what are these horrible side effect do you think can ocour?




> We now have a plethora of body bags to give us an idea of those stats...


Yeah a bodybuilders, guys who use a boatload of gear year round, eat a crapload of junk, stack rec drugs, put their body through hell on season. Come on SVC there is no comparison to them and us. Anyways I have some work to do so I'll chat to you later.

----------


## AG5678

> If you are using AS at a young age (18-19) you will probaly dont 
> hurt yourself to much i belive if you do SHORT cycles and not
> for a long time, and always stay off at least 6month or a year.


i believe the same thing i believe even younger if you run proper pct and your cycle is in check and forsure run HCG .

----------


## Jackman

the point of the study was to show more is better he said nothing about you still get same side effects....... he also stated you need to find the optimal dose. So svc your the one back peddling.

----------


## BajanBastard

> the point of the study was to show more is better he said nothing about you still get same side effects....... he also stated you need to find the optimal dose. So svc your the one back peddling.


Prepare to have your pic insulted.

----------


## Jackman

> Prepare to have your pic insulted.


  :LOL:  im ready bro! haha

----------


## *Narkissos*

> Prepare to have your pic insulted.


Amazing
-------------------------

 :LOL:  
Back on topic... i think adequate information was supplied..We're waiting on SVC to do the same

----------


## 2timer

> Great posts man!


first of all if steroids are so bad y would you risk yourbody for money? that is asinine! that is foolish
listen don't put down poeple here who have perfect reason to use steroids !
people here use steroids to look bigger, maybe for their jobs maybe for intimitaion. maybe they have been harrassed all there life and they want to make a stop to that, maybe they don't feel attractive enough to the opposite sex or enough enjoy the sport of bodybuilding and use steriod to take them to the top. whatever the reason I will bet 90% of the users here do not regret the day they injected themselves. the euphoric feeling they get when they like themselves is second to none. listen we live in the world that still runs by survival of fittest so you figure it out. no matter what the usage of steroid is... people here use roids to better themselves. and there is nothing wrong with that. yes few people maybe even "maybe" died from steroid. but buddy 10000*more have died from smoking, drinking and medications from doctor. Why they all died? over usage and addiction! teach that to the kids not bs about steroid usage! take care agian. I am going to take a  :Bath:

----------


## AG5678

> first of all if steroids are so bad y would you risk yourbody for money? that is asinine! that is foolish
> listen don't put down poeple here who have perfect reason to use steroids !
> people here use steroids to look bigger, maybe for their jobs maybe for intimitaion. maybe they have been harrassed all there life and they want to make a stop to that, maybe they don't feel attractive enough to the opposite sex whatever the reason I will bet 90% of the users here do not regret the day they injected themselves. the euphoric feeling they get when they like themselves is second to none. listen we live in the world that still runs by survival of fittest so you figure it out. no matter what the usage of steroid is people here use roids to better themselves. and there is nothing wrong with that. yes few people maybe even maybe died from steroid. but buddy 10000*more have died from smoking and drinking, medication from doctor. why they they all died? over usage and addiction! teach that to the kids not bs about steroid usage! take care agian. I am going to take a


Agree. SVC: I dont care if you used 13 diff compounds for 5 days thats still dumb and shi* like that is why your so fuk** up. I know people that have tried all the shi* but do it extremely safe and they dont have any problems except nosebleeds from the test. You were dumb and youre just two ashamed to admit it. When you go preach to kids tell them I fuked myself up not steroids. Your misrepresting steroids and thats why i don't respect you

----------


## thegodfather

We only live once...you could be struck by lightning, die in a car crash, get a rare disease, and die tomorrow. So I'd rather live a big and strong and happy 60 years, then an unhappy small 80 years. You compare AS to smoking thats funny. Smoking has ZERO positive side effects. AS gets you big, but CAN have adverse negative side effects, its a tradeoff. There is no tradeoff to cigarettes.

----------


## AG5678

> We only live once...you could be struck by lightning, die in a car crash, get a rare disease, and die tomorrow. So I'd rather live a big and strong and happy 60 years, then an unhappy small 80 years. You compare AS to smoking thats funny. Smoking has ZERO positive side effects. AS gets you big, but CAN have adverse negative side effects, its a tradeoff. There is no tradeoff to cigarettes.


Agree. Also sometimes hardly you wont get any sides from a cycle if you run it correctly. Hey SVC do you tell those kids that? Do you explain proper PCT? Are do you tell them "you'll end up like me or all those other guys and you'll DIE"? Youre a fake

----------


## DADDYDBOL

> (THERE'S A SPECIAL PLACE RESERVED IN HELL FOR THOSE TOBACCO INDUSTRY M***ER F***ERS!!!)
> 
> .



you must be a liberal....why is it always the companys fault? should bud be held responsible for all the drunk drivers that kill others? 

no because its the persons choice....if you make the choice then you have no one to blame but yourself.....

if someone chooses to smoke.....thats their choice and no one is to blame but them.....

----------


## squatster

I don't understand this- why do you guys keep saying he is preaching to us about the wrongs of steriods . How I see it, he is only answering questions asked ( his opinion) and a lot of good facts. And the other thing he is doing is just deffending him self against you guys saying - don't preach to us- we know what we are doing to our selves and we know the dangers and the possitive things on the juice, and you are a stupid ************ I love my juice to, But stop and think- more kids educated about the dangers, the less people that the media can say- he killed him self because of juice, or Juice is a sin. These kids need our help and experence to gide them. 
If he helps at least 1 kid then God bless him. We all know he is not doing it for the money. How much money do you possably think a DVD like this could make. ( enough for some chicken) he will probibly spend more for the blank dvd's then make. It must be from his heart. Call me stupid.
He has put him self way out there to help the kids make a desision, he never said- kids never do this- he shows what negitive affects it could have on people and children. you guys are all saying how stupid he is for doing 13 compounds at once. How would any of you here know it was stupid if he, one of our 4-fathers of juice hadn't done these things first and told us, (OPPPS not good) don't try that.
Look at us now a days trying to figure out how much growth hormones and how much IGF should we take. and how much dnp can we take for max results before we kill our selves or be in a comma for the rest of our lives( Same dam thing) some people will call us dumb asses for trying this **** too. Thay will only know it is stupid from our mistakes and us telling them it is a mistake.
Am I makeing any sence at all to any one????
We are all here to help each other , SVC is only here because some people here where flaming him for doing a very noble thing and trying to help stupid ass bald faces ( I still like that one) Baldfaces make an educated disision. With out facts - how can any one make a disision??? he only came here to let us know why he is makeing this dvd, and stop being hated , and he has stated many, many times that he is not against adults useing sensible. I would have never stuck around for this long as he did my self. He won me over, He has been prity dam good here, and is a great person to have on a steriod board. this has been a great thred so far and has made many think and reply.

----------


## SVC

> I don't understand this- why do you guys keep saying he is preaching to us about the wrongs of steriods . How I see it he is only answering questions asked ( his opinion) and a lot of good facts. And the other thing he is doing is just deffending him self against you guys saying - don't preach to us- we know what we are doing to our selves and we know the dangers and the possitive things on the juice. I love my juice to, But stop and think- more kids ejacated about the dangers, the less people that the media can say- he killed him self because of juice, or Juice is a sin. These kids need out help and experence to gide them. 
> If he helps at least 1 kid then God bless him. We all know he is not doing it for the money. How much money do you possably think a DVD like this could make. ( enough for some chicken) he will probibly spend more for the blank dvd's then make. It must be from his heart. Call me stupid.
> He has put him self way out there to help the kids make a desision, he never said- kids never do this- he shows what negitive affects it could have on people and children. you guys are all saying how stupid he is for doing 13 compounds at once. How would any of you here know it was stupid if he one of our 4-fathers of juice hadn't done these things first and told us. (OPPPS not good) don't try that. Look at us now a days trying to figure out how much growth hormones and how much IGF should we take. and how much dnp can we take for max results before we kill our selves or be in a comma for the rest of our lives( Same dam thing) some people will call us dumb asses for trying this **** to. Thay will only know it is stupid from our mistakes and us telling them it is a mistake.
> Am I makeing any sence at all to any one????
> We are all here to help each other , SVC is only here because some people here here flaming him for doing a very noble thing and trying to help stupid ass bald faces ( I still like that one) Baldfaces make an educated disision. With out facts - how can any one make a disision??? he only came here to let us know why he is makeing this dvd, and stop being hated , and he has stated many, many times that he is not against adults useing sencebly ( how ever you spell that) I would have never stuck around for this long my self. He won me over, like I said before when I say him on stage and Jay Cutler saying holy **** look at those legs. I bet he wished he could have legs like that some day and look at him- he got um



Thanks Squatster. It's literally impossible to try to reason with some of these guys... quite frankly, I'm sick of trying...

This is it in a nut shell:

UNTIL YOUR EARLY 20'S YOUR BODY IS RELEASING LOTS OF NATURAL TEST & GH (under 20mgs. per day of test per week) - 20mgs x 7 DAYS PER WEEK = 140mgs PER WEEK. WHY WOULD ANYONE IN THE RIGHT MIND THINK IT'S OK TO SHOOT 1,000MGS PER WEEK? That's akin to running nitrous oxide in a car, it may not blow your motor right away but it may in the long run...

READ THIS AGAIN
SERIOUS SIDE EFFECTS MOST LIKELY WON'T SHOW UP IN THE FIRST 20 WEEKS, BUT THEY MOST LIKELY WILL DOWN THE ROAD.

----------


## squatster

I want to try to dessifer this for some, the words- MOST LIKELY-that is the word used so people stop and think before thay jump and start throwing rocks. He did not say it will happen, he said it may happen. Some people would be ok with high doeses( for now- thay think) but many would suffer some bad problems down the road. Some permenent. I beleave also that people can do great on small doeses- O_NOOO, but that means you have to deit better and lift smarter! but you can get there at the same time as the 2 gram person and keep it much better and have a much better look to your bod, with out the sides
don't forget he is only saying his opinion- how can an opinion be wrong?
This stuff I also put is my opinion

----------


## system admin

No need trying to defend yourself. Tell your side and move on to another topic. Fact is, a thread this long does not get read in its intirety.

Bc

----------


## GREENMACHINE

:The Wave: 


Lets stop the madness. The guy in the video can't bring himself to admit he f'ed himself over throwing 13 compounds at himself in one go. Not to mention his 200lb helmet stunt. If he doesn't get it by now well let him go to hell. Ok so he is scaring kids into not taking juice (maybe). Better they not do it than do it wrong. No one on here does steroid because they are socially acceptable. Lets face it whether we like it or not they are not socially acceptable. We make a personal choice but unlike Mr 13 we use common sense and research, what we don't know we find out before making decision. We educate ourself to the risks and we make up our own minds. Might be worth freezing this whole thread or just deleting it. Too many bro have wasted their precious time entertainting this guy. Peace out.

----------


## LACBodybuilder

> No need trying to defend yourself. Tell your side and move on to another topic. Fact is, a thread this long does not get read in its intirety.
> 
> Bc


Yeah, there is no way anyone new to this thread could take the time to read the whole thing and understand what is going on. I have been keeping up with it and there are still too many new posts for me to follow.

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> It's literally impossible to try to reason with some of these guys... quite frankly, I'm sick of trying...


Then please stop.

----------


## Odin

> Younger bodies can initially take more abuse (obviously). It can take years for the problems to show. Do cigarettes kill people the first 20 weeks they start smoking? No, it can take years for the emphysema or lung cancer to show.
> 
> THESE STUDIES OBSERVED THE PARTICIPANTS FOR 2O WEEKS, NOT 1 YEAR, OR 2 YEARS OR 20 YEARS.
> 
> You sound like the Tobacco Industry 20 years ago when they denied cigarettes caused any health problems at all. (THERE'S A SPECIAL PLACE RESERVED IN HELL FOR THOSE TOBACCO INDUSTRY M***ER F***ERS!!!)
> 
> I believe the long term side effects of AS will soon be common knowledge as well.


Well the body naturally produces tesosterone so it's not going produce somthing it cannot handle. The body does not naturally produce Nicotine and for dam good reasons too.

----------


## Odin

OK SVC, I don't now if you have answered this before. Have you had side effects from Steroids ,"Not pain killers or rec" THAT by no means could be training related. So do you currenly have blood problems, organs...prostate... The rapid heart beat could be from somthing else you might have played with. Sorry if this sounds rude Just trying to get down to direct points.

----------


## BajanBastard

> READ THIS AGAIN
> SERIOUS SIDE EFFECTS MOST LIKELY WON'T SHOW UP IN THE FIRST 20 WEEKS, BUT THEY MOST LIKELY WILL DOWN THE ROAD.


I say again. Long term ill effects from steroid use stems from using the drugs for prolonged periods and not taking care off, high red blood cell count, high blood pressure, cholesterol, liver, kidneys etc and doing this for years. You are asking for an early death if you do.

I'll ask you again 


> So if a gear-head used optimal doses, controlled and monitored BP, watched RBC count and got blood work before during and after every 10-12 week cycle (steriod.com members are encouraged to do so) what are these horrible side effect do you think can occur?


In SVCs defense, he did not have the resources available to us now! So harping on the 13 drugs at once is pointless!

----------


## peaker

after watching you vid you said you trained with joint problems, by the sounds of it you made them worse by training through your injuries... correct me if i am wrong but you said something like you couldnt remember you shoulders not hurting. do you have any other health problems that are a result of steroids alone?

----------


## GymDog

> Thanks Squatster. It's literally impossible to try to reason with some of these guys... quite frankly, I'm sick of trying...
> 
> This is it in a nut shell:
> 
> UNTIL YOUR EARLY 20'S YOUR BODY IS RELEASING LOTS OF NATURAL TEST & GH (under 20mgs. per day of test per week) - 20mgs x 7 DAYS PER WEEK = 140mgs PER WEEK. WHY WOULD ANYONE IN THE RIGHT MIND THINK IT'S OK TO SHOOT 1,000MGS PER WEEK? That's akin to running nitrous oxide in a car, it may not blow your motor right away but it may in the long run...
> 
> READ THIS AGAIN
> SERIOUS SIDE EFFECTS MOST LIKELY WON'T SHOW UP IN THE FIRST 20 WEEKS, BUT THEY MOST LIKELY WILL DOWN THE ROAD.


Lemme interject here. Being a perfomance car enthusiast, I can agree with you comparing NO2 to steroids . NO2 doesn't make power, but rather creates a more optimal environment for horsepower. Steroid don't magically make muscle, but the create an optimal environment for muscular hypertrophy. However, I must disagree with you on the dangers of using too much NO2 in a car. First of all, you can flood your engine with a 500hp shot w/o fear of damaging the engine. How? By taking the proper precautions. One must realize that NO2 doesn't directly damage the engine. The reason why engines blow is the more nitrous you run, the more fuel you need, otherwise the air/fuel ratio will be too lean, and will damage the engine. These NO2 horror stories you hear are from dumbasses who don't do their research and run a 250HP *DRY SHOT* into their stock engine. This is bad for two reasons: 
(1)Most car engines manufactured are stock with either cast or hypereutectic pistons, usually with other cast iron internals. These are fine for normal applications, but under the strain of a higher compression ratio or a large amount of horsepower, these parts will suffer imminent failure. Replace those internals with forged aluminum, and you've got a solid engine that can handle lots of abuse.
(2)While computer-controlled cars can compensate for a lean mixture with more fuel, most stock fuel injectors can only flow a limited amount of fuel, and so it can correct the ratio only to a certain degree. Once that threshold is crossed, damage will follow. This can also be easily remedied by putting higher-flowing fuel injectors and a bigger fuel pump in the car. 

Another remedy is to go with a "wet" NO2 injection system. A wet system consists of a nitrous line and a fuel line that inject both nitrous and fuel into the block in the proper ratio to ensure pain-free performance. Also, I'd like to note that most nitrous users don't shoot a 500HP shot of NO2. If you spray NO2 at more conservative levels, even as high as 150HP for some engines, you can safely run a dry or wet system that's problem-free.

Steroids are the same way. Think of ancillary drugs and cycling on/off as the same as better engine internals and a higher-flowing fuel system. If you juice 1000mg/wk of Test w/o anti-e's for long periods, then you're asking for trouble. If you take the proper precautions, it's not an issue. Even at a more conservative dose, like 500mg/wk, the risk is lower, and therefore little or no ancillaries are required. You mentioned earlier somewhere that steroids can affect people much like cigarettes do. People might get emphysema or lung cancer in their 40's, but that's because they've been smoking everyday since they were 20. You failed to mention that if you come off cigarettes, those risks are lowered, and given enough time, will be nullified. Also, you don't see smokers cycling on/off. I think anyone who juices year-round is dumb, and anyone who juices year round for several years deserves to die as a result of their own ignorance and stupidity. If a steroid user cycles on/off like they should & takes the proper precautions, and uses more conservative doses, I feel the risks are minimal and negligible. Those risks that are commonly discussed in this thread apply to those who don't take the proper precautions before using steroids and/or those who continue to use steroids without cycling off. That's my .02...

----------


## squatster

Do you guys honestly think most people do there steriods properly.
It is not like we can go to the doctor and say-Hay I want to start some juice, can you check my blood and give me the go ahead. And get the stuff from pharmacies so we know exactly what we are taking.
Read just the other week in a paper about the herbs from India- thay contained near leathal amounts of carcinagins and high counts of metals.
now- what do you think are in our steriods from over seas, from countries that hate us in the us. ( sorry got carried away)
I don't know many pro's that cycle or do not bridge with heavy ass ****, or even national leavel people, men and woman. Mabie thay are not dangerous short term or used correctly - but how the hell is to say what is correct useage?
Sorry I my self will get off of the post.
I love this post because look at how many people here finnaly used there brains and did some research. I KNOW NOT MOST BUT MANY
great job guys. Hope we can put this much into other posts

----------


## SVC

> I say again. Long term ill effects from steroid use stems from using the drugs for prolonged periods and not taking care off, high red blood cell count, high blood pressure, cholesterol, liver, kidneys etc and doing this for years. You are asking for an early death if you do.
> 
> I'll ask you again 
> 
> In SVCs defense, he did not have the resources available to us now! So harping on the 13 drugs at once is pointless!


13 AT ONCE AT VERY LOW DOSES FOR *6 WE**EKS* & YES I DID NECK RAISES FOR *A* *FEW WEEKS*.

IF I DIDN'T MENTION THOSE *2*  THINGS IN THE VIDEO, WHAT WOULD MANY OF YOU BE USING TO *HUMOR YOURSELF*  INTO THINKING THERE'S NO CHANCE YOU'LL HAVE PROBLEMS DOWN THE ROAD? *Why does almost every other AS user I knew have* *serious health problems*  *as well?* They didn't do "13" or neck raises. Some trained like wimps, used extremely low doses and did short cycles.

----------


## Jackman

my pic did not get flammed! woot

----------


## BajanBastard

Is SVC avoiding my question? 

Badass analogy GymDog!

----------


## GREENMACHINE

> 13 AT ONCE AT VERY LOW DOSES FOR *6 WE**EKS* & YES I DID NECK RAISES FOR *A* *FEW WEEKS*.
> 
> IF I DIDN'T MENTION THOSE *2*  THINGS IN THE VIDEO, WHAT WOULD MANY OF YOU BE USING TO *HUMOR YOURSELF*  INTO THINKING THERE'S NO CHANCE YOU'LL HAVE PROBLEMS DOWN THE ROAD? *Why does almost every other AS user I knew have* *serious health problems*  *as well?* They didn't do "13" or neck raises. Some trained like wimps, used extremely low doses and did short cycles.


 :ZZZZZZZZ:   :ZZZZZZZZ:   :ZZZZZZZZ:

----------


## Odin

> my pic did not get flammed! woot


Show a little ass and it might even get bragged up.  :Big Grin:  JK SVC

----------


## SVC

[QUOTE=big k.l.g]Is SVC avoiding my question? 


Avoiding which question that I've answered 26 times? Have you really been here since the beginning of this thread? This one? (below)

_Originally Posted by big k.l.g
So if a gear-head used optimal doses, controlled and monitored BP, watched RBC count and got blood work before during and after every 10-12 week cycle (steriod.com members are encouraged to do so) what are these horrible side effect do you think can occur?_

*AUTO IMMUNE DISEASES...*

BTW I have no affiliation with steroid .com so I'm not quite sure why you keep making reference to it. The only site dealing with AS that I'm connected to, is my site SteroidsViciousCycles.com

Please remember how cocky some of you are acting now when you're f-ed up down the road. If you do end up getting f-ed up, don't be cowards and take a one way trip to a bridge to expedite your dirt nap... Tell the next generation of "KNOW IT ALLs" what you've been through... stick around and suffer for 50 years because you wanted to be jacked for 3.

----------


## AG5678

> 13 AT ONCE AT VERY LOW DOSES FOR *6 WE**EKS* & YES I DID NECK RAISES FOR *A* *FEW WEEKS*.
> 
> IF I DIDN'T MENTION THOSE *2*  THINGS IN THE VIDEO, WHAT WOULD MANY OF YOU BE USING TO *HUMOR YOURSELF*  INTO THINKING THERE'S NO CHANCE YOU'LL HAVE PROBLEMS DOWN THE ROAD? *Why does almost every other AS user I knew have* *serious health problems*  *as well?* They didn't do "13" or neck raises. Some trained like wimps, used extremely low doses and did short cycles.


Bullshi* name them to me? there could be some but very few. if i can have my friend of mine come on here he'll wake your as* up cause your talking like a dumb***

----------


## BajanBastard

[QUOTE=SVC]


> Is SVC avoiding my question? 
> 
> 
> Avoiding which question that I've answered 26 times? Have you really been here since the beginning of this thread? This one? (below)
> 
> _Originally Posted by big k.l.g
> So if a gear-head used optimal doses, controlled and monitored BP, watched RBC count and got blood work before during and after every 10-12 week cycle (steriod.com members are encouraged to do so) what are these horrible side effect do you think can occur?_
> 
> *AUTO IMMUNE DISEASES...*
> ...


SVC I'm not acting cocky at all, i asked you a question that i would like an answer to, in detail and why. Just screaming AUTO IMMUNE DISEASES is not going to cut it. Eg there is a bro here who posted in detail how and why maga-dose AAS cycles shorten life span. I would like you to go into detail as well.

----------


## MER

SVC do you have any of these Auto Immune Diseases? Seeing as youve done of of the most wide ranged cycles I've seen I would think it would be you who would know about this first hand.

----------


## justin2305

that was deep

----------


## MER

But honest

----------


## SVC

> But honest


Yes, I do. A form of arthritis and no family history of it. Another friend and former AS user has MS with no family history of it another Muscular Dystrophy, another has Leukemia...

----------


## Odin

> Yes, I do. A form of arthritis and no family history of it. Another friend and former AS user has MS with no family history of it another Muscular Dystrophy, another has Leukemia...


A lot of your friends came from the hay day of cocaine too. That Pablo guy in Columbia was really sending over the nose candy in those days.

----------


## SVC

> A lot of your friends came from the hay day of cocaine too. That Pablo guy in Columbia was really sending over the nose candy in those days.


I never did Cocaine or any other rec drugs and neither did any of the guys I mentioned... now what's the reason? Could it be the AS we all used? Not in your mind because then you couldn't justify what you're doing...

----------


## Tank010101

> Money Boss Hustla calling me a greedy entrepreneur? That's priceless... Why do so many of you take my opinions & facts so personally? Misery loves company? Did you even compete? Are you going to? If not, what do you hope to gain by juicing? So you can look good walking around? If so, that's malignant dumb! Please explain why you're so pissed that I'm trying educate kids about AS?



I really dont think you are one to educate our future generations. The only reason you are allowed to is because you were a dumbass when doing your AAS and you got ****ed up because of it which has led you to be a "voice" that they (the public) are wiling to listen to, since you have views which are suported by the media... the government... and most of society. It honestly makes me sick to think that you think you are doing our future generations a favor.

----------


## Aboot

> I never did Cocaine or any other rec drugs and neither did any of the guys I mentioned... now what's the reason? Could it be the AS we all used? Not in your mind because then you couldn't justify what you're doing...



All of the proof that you have provided is anecdotal. That is why you are having trouble convincing "us". You are not seen as independent (as no doubt numerous people here have made you aware). The problem a lot of people are having is seeing your rationale that because you and the other people that you speak of used steriods and are now suffering from various diseases/ailments, that one was the cause of the other instead of other factors/variables.

----------


## GymDog

> Do you guys honestly think most people do there steriods properly.


Then those people get what's coming to them. I've always taken the proper precautions. I wouldn't do it any other way.

----------


## seanw

> Yes, I do. A form of arthritis and no family history of it. Another friend and former AS user has MS with no family history of it another Muscular Dystrophy, another has Leukemia...


Since when were any of these disease hereditry ? Thats the dumbest thing I have ever heard !!!

----------


## SVC

> Since when were any of these disease hereditry ? Thats the dumbest thing I have ever heard !!!


Oh really? Perhaps in the future you should consider researching something before you start typing.

_Most forms of arthritis do run in families  ... 
www.arc.org.uk/about_arth/booklets/6037/6037.htm - 58k - Cached - Similar pages

Discovery Health :: multiple sclerosis
... Death in people with MS is generally related to complications of their
disabilities. ... However, it does tend to run in families. ... 
health.discovery.com/encyclopedias/1641.html - 26k - Cached - Similar pages 

Facts About Rare Muscular Dystrophies
... more about inheritance patterns, see "Does It Run ... descent, this form of distal muscular dystrophy is inherited  ... quadriceps muscles (in the thigh) tend to remain ... 
www.mdausa.org/publications/fa-rareMD.html - 63k - Cached - Similar pages

The Ups and Downs of Cyclothymia - New Jersey ... Bipolar disease and cyclothymia tend to run in families. There may be a genetic link between the two. ... Some individuals do not realize anything is wrong. ... 
www.somersetmedicalcenter.com/14300.cfm - 23k - Cached - Similar pages _

----------


## seanw

> Oh really? Perhaps in the future you should consider researching something before you start typing.
> 
> _Most forms of arthritis do run in families  ... 
> www.arc.org.uk/about_arth/booklets/6037/6037.htm - 58k - Cached - Similar pages
> 
> Discovery Health :: multiple sclerosis
> ... Death in people with MS is generally related to complications of their
> disabilities. ... However, it does tend to run in families. ... 
> health.discovery.com/encyclopedias/1641.html - 26k - Cached - Similar pages 
> ...


The word tend is used a lot here. I know one person with MS and she has no history of it in her family so I would like to see a LOT more evidence before I was convinced.

----------


## Jackman

im still waiting on what big klg posted to be commented on.

----------


## Decakur

> im still waiting on what big klg posted to be commented on.


That's right!  :LOL:

----------


## LACBodybuilder

> im still waiting on what big klg posted to be commented on.


Im kind of interested to see this aswell.

----------


## peump

wow this thread has gotten alot of attention!! now im here giving it more.

this thread is an attention whore

slutofathread!

----------


## Decakur

> wow this thread has gotten alot of attention!! now im here giving it more.
> 
> this thread is an attention whore
> 
> slutofathread!


Althought is a huge thread  :LOL:

----------


## Decakur

> Althought is a huge thread


Thats right.. but where is SVC?

2005 the new year  :Welcome:

----------


## Decakur

I heard that 10mg DBOL ED in 30days would give you som little
gains and also give you higher own production of testosteron higher
after the cycle.
Small doses dbol...  :Welcome:

----------


## Jackman

> I heard that 10mg DBOL ED in 30days would give you som little
> gains and also give you higher own production of testosteron higher
> after the cycle.
> Small doses dbol...


why did you put this here?

----------


## peump

> I heard that 10mg DBOL ED in 30days would give you som little
> gains and also give you higher own production of testosteron higher
> after the cycle.
> Small doses dbol...



thanks for sharing  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## LACBodybuilder

> I heard that 10mg DBOL ED in 30days would give you som little
> gains and also give you higher own production of testosteron higher
> after the cycle.
> Small doses dbol...


2 things, first off this is a random comment, secondly, do you have any proof of this statement. I have never heard anything about dbol boosting natural test production after a cycle, and I find it to be highly unlikely.

----------


## bignatt

thats def a crock of shlt

----------


## system admin

we are getting off topic. Lets wait for SVC.

Bc

----------


## Money Boss Hustla

> we are getting off topic. Lets wait for SVC.
> 
> Bc


Why am I doing this!? BUMP.

----------


## BajanBastard

I think SVC was scared off.

----------


## system admin

I think his efforts were short from being effective here. Seemed like a nice guy though.

Bc

----------


## LACBodybuilder

> I think his efforts were short from being effective here. Seemed like a nice guy though.
> 
> Bc


Someone get SVC back here so we can get this thread to 1000 replies. So bump it one step closer.

----------


## jaffry20

> Someone get SVC back here so we can get this thread to 1000 replies. So bump it one step closer.


 
here's another "BUMP" rite Mreow!

----------


## jaffry20

**** one more till 300, buuuuuuuuump

----------


## gripex

> wow really makes you think doesn't it


not really.

----------


## LuvMuhRoids

believe it or not that guy spoke a lot of truth

----------


## G-Force

is this the longest thread ever?

----------


## peump

> believe it or not that guy spoke a lot of truth


are you talking about SVC or the guy slamming roids?

----------


## peump

> are you talking about SVC or the guy slamming roids?



actually nevermind. i just realized that i dont care.  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## cpt steele

Bizump beyatches

----------


## shasha213

> Fact is, a thread this long does not get read in its intirety.
> 
> Bc



i beg to differ. do i win a prize.  :Smilie:  first SVC, i find it ironic that there are few on here that bash your steroid usage at one time-when it seems on a milligram basis some take as much as as you did (just fewer versions of steriods ). Not bashing anyone just an observation. SVC, you were(in case you never come back) the prototype person of what most ppl who come on these boards want to hear from. opions are all right for conversation, but to hear and see the story you told was awesome-thats true knowlegde. i defend your right to oppose steroids (even though i do not(at least for adults) only because you have done them and have knowledge about them. those who oppose without having any knowledge I cant same the same. Finally, if anyone wants to know why i am responding to a thread that hasnt seen much action lately i just spent 3 hours reading all this stuff i am going to put my 2 cents in. peace

----------


## Cuttup

SVC,..you're awesome.....Thanks for your educational Info, your time and dedication to the game, your care for others in this industry, and your time/ wisdom. Goodluck with what ever you do in life...

Cuttup....

----------


## alluprbdy

why is this thread still going on its been forever.

----------


## system admin

I tried to get him to do a project with me, but right after I asked him he bailed???

Oh well... it was educational while it lasted.

Bc

----------


## hawkeye1877

Bump Everyone needs to read this

----------


## Meso

Whoops wrong response sorry

----------


## seanw

> I tried to get him to do a project with me, but right after I asked him he bailed???
> 
> Oh well... it was educational while it lasted.
> 
> Bc


What was the project Bc ?

----------


## BDTR

This was AR's longest thread.

----------


## CARNIVORE

[QUOTE= 
Case closed for another greedy entrepreneur. Go market somewhere else.[/QUOTE]

Bro, you are one bad mo fo.  :Afro:  

Peace,
CARNIVORE

----------


## Juice08

Bump

----------


## dirtdawg

i listened for 30 seconds, what a jerk off

----------


## SplinterCell

> This was AR's longest thread.


And now Im officially a part of it....nothing really educational to contribute but I just feel like being a part of AR history  :Big Grin:

----------


## nitro_fusion

THE GUY IN THE FILM IS AN IDIOT!!! sorry that is not a user that is an ABUSER! Wow he really ****ed himself up

----------


## ducati996

Bump I just want to be a part of this thread.  :Welcome:

----------


## Nutz56

> Bump I just want to be a part of this thread.


i'm with this guy...  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## EatRite

> I'm not trying to judge, bash or preach to adults over the age of 23 that are able to make a rational decision. I'm trying to communicate to kids that don't realize if they cycle before the age of 23, they can't grow any taller because their growth plates stabilize and also show them the possible repercussions of abuse.
> 
> Nearly half a million middle- and high-schoolers admit to at least trying anabolic steroids , according to the National Institute on Drug Abuse.
> 
> I once shared the same opinions many of you do. Once the juice was totally out of my system, I could see more clearly... [B]When I did the cycle with 13 steroids at the same time it was for 8 weeks.[/B] I always went off for 6 months out of the year, from June to January. I NEVER DID MORE THAN 200 MGS. OF TEST PER WEEK. I never did anadrol 50 or any toxic orals either. My SGOTS never went over 50. I was doing small amounts of many. My cycles were mild compared to what others were and are doing. Especially compared to the original reference guide THE UNDERGROUND STEROID HANDBOOK, author Dan Duchaine died at 48. I NEVER ABUSED PAIN KILLERS & I STILL DON'T TAKE THEM. 
> 
> Do you guys think it's normal that some shoot 50cc's of synthol, just so they can walk around with big arms, with no intention of ever competing?
> 
> Do you think the early death and health problems of the following was normal?
> ...





> This will be my final post and /or response for a while. I have to get some work done so I can save up my next joint replacement 
> 
> THE FACTS
> 1) I was never a PRO bodybuilder. I never earned my pro card because I never entered a pro qualifier due to the injuries which later caused me to pull the rip card and retire from competition.
> 2) It was never my intention to "judge" or "bash" current steroid users in the video. I was speaking to high school kids and I was trying to convey how stupid "I" was for acting the way I did when "I" was on and how crazy "some" are today. 
> 3) Many of the greatest athletes of all time had incredible drive to be the best and later drove themselves into ground. Athletes like Dorian Yates (bi & tri tear), Bo Jackson (hip replacement), Derek Sanderson (both hips replaced).
> 4) IF THE SUPPLEMENTS THAT ARE AVAILABLE TODAY WERE AVAILABLE BACK IN 1983 I NEVER WOULD HAVE TAKEN STEROIDS.
> 5) WHEN YOU TAKE STEROIDS YOU ARE ALTERING YOUR BODY CHEMISTRY, THINGS "CAN" HAPPEN WHEN YOU DO SO. 
> 6) *When I took 13 different things at once, it was for 6 weeks only. *  (very small amounts) Every other cycle consisted of 1 androgen, and 2 anabolics.
> ...



did anybody else notice that??? 

just an outsider's perspective of this thread... svc seems to be a nice guy, however, he is strung up on oldschool mis-knowledge and needs to learn a little more before argueing on a board with some highly educated individuals...

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## BajanBastard

> did anybody else notice that??? 
> 
> just an outsider's perspective of this thread... svc seems to be a nice guy, however, he is strung up on oldschool mis-knowledge and needs to learn a little more before argueing on a board with some highly educated individuals...


Nice catch.

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## EatRite

i dont wanna criticize, cause it may have been a typo, but the six and eight arent that close, and it sounds like he started to rethink his place when everybody blamed it on his decisions and not the juice... it looks to me like he started to downplay his AAS use... jmo... who knows maybe he may have taken more than 200 mg of test at once (aka, probably did)... it sounds to me like he is downplaying his steriod use somewhat, and if he is then he is exaggerating the effects of steriods on the body because this implies that less steriods caused these problems, which would not have been true... if this is true, then he is blatantly pushing an agenda because he is not reporting the actual facts, but an ideology that aas are bad for you... who knows... maybe it was a typo............................

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## EatRite

:Strong Smiley:  


> Are you on juice? What are you a buck & change, keep the change?



and this quote cracks me up... he is promoting an anti AAS lifestyle, but mocks somebody's look who could vary well be natural...the reason a lot of people do steriods is because of comments such as these... he coulda been working out for years with no avail, and getting frustrated, insted of complementing on his look, you bash him, and if he is in fact at that using steriod "breaking point" where he is looking for a quicker or easier way to gain some weight, you just sealed his fate my man... if you are promoting anti AAS lifestyles, then you shouldnt bash somebody's physique who actually does look good... we all know that huge size does not come to somebody with his frame unless you use AAS... by making this comment it seems as though you are pushing him towards the vary lifestyle you are against... jmo........

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## BajanBastard

The thing about him is that he could not stand anyone arguing with him. If you look at when I posted the studies he asked for he started to avoid questions and tell me I'm the one back peddling. He was a cool dude but needed an attitude adjustment.

Eatrite: Your last point was a very good one.  :Thumps Up:

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## EatRite

this guy is one of two things... a good sameritan, or a businessman who is trying to make his bread off of his story...

what i mean is that he is either trying to help people out for free, or he is trying to make some money by promoting an anti-steriod lifestyle... there is no in between... personally, it doesnt seem to me that he is just a good guy trying to lookout for people... i'll bet he's getting paid for his speaches and i'll bet he is making money by promoting those products on that website... if he is not making any capitol gains through all of this then that is the only way he can be considered a good sameritan... if he is gaining capitol from doing this then what makes me believe that he is not fudging the numbers a little and over exaggerating or underexaggerating a little??? who knows...

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## bone crusher

all i got to say is that whatever the side effects of steroids are, this guy got them
 :Frown:

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## Thegr8One

wow what a dumb Az$hole how fvkkin' ignorant can you get

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## DaNgErOuStRiKeR

bump

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## LACBodybuilder

Eatrite bro, you have made some very excellent points bro. They have all been right on target.

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## EatRite

yea... i dont know his motives... but he seems to be a little off to me... whatever... to each his own... i hope he convinces people that juice is terrible for you that way fewer people will do it, the fewer people who demand it the cheaper the price... also... the few people who do it, the bigger i will be in comparison...

the bottom line is, if anybody is going to believe this guy, they have to be at least moderately uneducated... so i guess it's good for aas use... think about it guys... the uneducated people will be turned away from juicing, which means that fewer people will abuse thier use because of a lack of knowledge or information... since this is the case, less horror stories will lurk around the AAS community in general, and if this is true then the reputation of AAS will be slightly better to some degree... all i'm saying is that maybe guys like this are positive for the AAS community for a few reasons...

1... because we get a good laugh at his antics...
2... because it ensures that the people using steriods will actually be somewhat educated... if uneducated people are hearing stories like this, they wont use steriods, only the educated people who know that these terrible things won't happen to them if they practice moderation...
3... it makes us all look slightly better for using these drugs because the fewer horror stories there are out there (due to a general response to stories such as these), the better reputation steriods will have in general...

i dont know, maybe i'm way off the mark with these comments... correct me if i'm wrong....

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## KGBnine

Amazing! LoL

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## EatRite

ps... this is a big ass thread

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## GREENMACHINE

:LOL:  who bumped this sh!t back up.

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## EatRite

not this guy...

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## KGBnine

Just let this thread die.

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## Rado7

Im a newbie...and i have done some stupid things....my first 2 cycles first had no PCT and the second only used HCG ....it was before i reseacrhed....Im 19 ...and i im doin another one soon but CORRECTLY... This guy obviously took steroids for YEARS on end....wiht little breaks to do that much damage beyond your body's own repair..... all a movie like that does is try to scare [B]*kids like me into thinking that my lower back is killing me right now as i write this Post*

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## J.S.N.

> 2) I heard that Arnold had heart problems and stuff but it wasn't becuase of the use of steroids it was some type of disease that ran in the family.


i'm pretty sure arnie's brother (who never touched roids) dies of that family condition.

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## KINGKONG

> i'm pretty sure arnie's brother (who never touched roids) dies of that family condition.


good job stamos,you just bumped the longest thread ever so bump...

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## AnabolBoy

this thread just wont die.

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## ChefJ

We need moderator help for this one.

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## LACBodybuilder

> We need moderator help for this one.


I guess you just can't keep a good thread down bro.  :Smilie:

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## IR0NMAN2005

I'd like to add....

AS use is what you make of it. You said yourself SVC, abuse of anything will harm you. Like lifting WAY too much weight for your body. Your body, by my guess, before juicing was ectomorphic. Small frame, light weight. You added the size with AS but what about your bones? Joints? They weren't used to lifting that extreme of weight (ex: 700lbs. + squat for reps) Your did it to yourself man!!

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## Timetraviler

I am CONFUSED

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## LACBodybuilder

What's even funnier is that SVC hasn't been on since January 7th. Doubt he is still keeping up with this thread.
Last Activity: 01-07-2005 01:19 PM

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## avillus

bump for the longest thread ever

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## LACBodybuilder

This is officially the longest thread in the Steroid Questions Section. The longest thread on AR is actually from the AR Lounge
http://forums.anabolicreview.com/sho...d.php?t=147433

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## avillus

bump

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## KINGKONG

> This is officially the longest thread in the Steroid Questions Section. The longest thread on AR is actually from the AR Lounge
> http://forums.anabolicreview.com/sho...d.php?t=147433


we can change that...

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## Feen

money boss huslter you couldnt be more correct... this guy was an idiot and abused his body...

now he does public speaking (TONS OF MONEY) acting like he was a ****ing victim. this dude is a ****ing joke. ANYTHING CAN HURT YOU IF YOU USE IT IMPROPERLY! and if thats really you... you look like a ****ing WIMP without roids now becuase it was all you had. 

that video made me want to inject deca into my ****ing eye

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## AnabolBoy

SVC is long gone tards.Give this dumb ass thread a rest please.

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## LACBodybuilder

> we can change that...


Well the people who are still arguing with SVC might make that happen. As much as this thread is now officially useless, I still kind of hate to see it go.

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## KINGKONG

> Well the people who are still arguing with SVC might make that happen. As much as this thread is now officially useless, I still kind of hate to see it go.


same here I was on it from the beginning and I want it to be the longest thread in AR history....

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## KINGKONG

> same here I was on it from the beginning and I want it to be the longest thread in AR history....


even though it is worthless  :Smilie:

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## alluprbdy

Please guys this post sux and just takes up space I was glad to see it go away for a while and now I see it back. Lets just stop posting on it.

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## AnaboliKboy

> Complete BS SVC. I just picked apart your post. If you are really Todd...then please let's continue the conversation.
> 
> There is a total hidden agenda. Bad mouthing AS so you can make money on your own products and services. Traitor. Total sell out. 
> 
> Get off your soapboxyou hurt yourself. Steroids did not hurt you. Your lack of understanding and stupidity (200lb neck raises) are the culprits. You abused your bodynot AS!! If AS are so bad why is there HRT? Huh? Doctors prescribe it!! People take test shot every week. You have named but a few people who have used ASwhat about the rest of the population of users? Results and sides are individual. Your experiences do not represent the AS world. 
> 
> Case closed for another greedy entrepreneur. Go market somewhere else.



U da man dolemite  :Afro:

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## avillus

:Frown:

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## squatster

What Anabolic Steroids Did For Me
Presented by: Matt Alavi (short version) 

I started lifting weights quite heavily at age 18 after my senior year in high school. I was 59 weighed about 155lbs and was about 9% body fat. I was a baseball player throughout high school, which kept me in pretty good shape. 
After graduation, I quit baseball and decided to make weight lifting a full-time affair. I started reading Muscle Media 2000, a magazine geared towards muscle heads which soon became my bible. Lifting became quite an obsession; ditched work, skipped classes (college), blew off friends, all to eat and lift! I was very dedicated and determined to get big and strong just like all the guys in the muscle mags. Hell, these guys had the chicks, money and drove cool cars right! Big muscles are a sign of power! I knew that I had the potential to have the power! My magazines instructed me on how to eat, sleep, which supplements I need to take and how to train. 
At the end of my 19th year, I weighed about 190lbs lean. I was benching over 280lbs for reps, and was shoulder shrugging about 500lbs, which I thought was pretty good at the time. Creatine started becoming very popular at my gym and MM 2000 raved about it! I immediately went out and bought a bottle. I took creatine and some aminos for a while on and off, and by age 20, I broke 200lbs, and my strength gains were still climbing. Here I started to develop a small belly, due to all the domestic beer and eating every two hours, I suppose. I made a pact with myself, I would get up to 210lbs and then stop there. Well at 215lbs, I said only five more pounds and a hundred more on bench and Ill be satisfied. However, at this time it was too late, I was going up fast, and nothing could stop me! I was convinced with the help from my magazine buddies, that I could not afford to lose any muscle. I spent so much time building it, theres no way Im going to lose it! 
Pretty soon I was given the nick name Girth. Then at age 22 and 260lbs, people referred to me as little Dorian, claimed from the monster pro bodybuilder Dorian Yates. 
I became a power-lifter between age 20 and 22. I was lifting more weight and was bigger than most guys in the gym, including the ones on roids. I was huge, but I didnt look the way I wanted to look. I wanted to be ripped. I still looked small in the mirror and felt a bit inferior. I was stronger than most everyone around me, benching close to 500lbs, squatting about 800lbs, and leg pressing the sled loaded with plates and a 150lb kid standing on the top!! Yeah, did it all with the help of just creatine, aminos, protein shakes, weight gainers, HMB, various other supplements, a whole lot of hard work, and lots of food! But now it was time to get ripped! Around this time a bunch of Ephedra based weight loss products started becoming popular. Products like Metaform Heat, Ultimate Orange, and the new one  Hydroxycut, all were being raved about in all the muscle mags. Man oh man, that Metaform Heat was powerful, before they took it off the market five times! That stuff made me fly through my workouts! 
I took some of these cutters for a few months. Hey, they were all natural! They cant be that bad!

After strict dieting, training and months of herbal speed, I was almost ripped at 210lbs, with very little body fat. I felt like crap though. I was pretty over-trained and too dehydrated from all the dieting. **** it! Everyone around me was juicing and not training half as hard as me. My roommate and all my other gym comrades were all ripped and doing it with ease! All the magazines and roid head writers glorified the power of steroids. Roids will give any person the edge they are looking for. If the juice is done right, you can have the body of your dreams. Hey, the pro athletes that I knew, were doing it, and they were achieving stardom! I wanted to experience the power of the juice. Just a little boost, and Ill be fine. One early evening I took my first shot of Testosterone Suspension , at age 23 and 210lbs lean. The next morning I was about 213lbs, and a lot leaner! How the hell is that possible! My muscles were so much harder, and I looked more cut up! I immediately went to the gym and had a fantastic workout. I felt great! Just in one day. This being, because Test Suspension is water based which gets into the system quickly. I became convinced and determined at that moment, that I would complete a cycle of steroids. Continuation of my cycle consisted of ditching the Suspension, and replacing it with Testosterone Cypionate , Testosterone Enanthate , Deca , Primobolan , Novadex and Clenbeuterol, all staggered within a four month period. I went from 213lbs to 225lbs, ripped, I mean ripped! My strength and size went through the roof. Although I never got as strong as when I was 260lbs. 
My muscles were tearing my workout shirts! I was never sore, and my joints felt great! I had a muscle pump all the time, and my workouts were cake! The owner of the gym I trained at asked if he could sponsor me for the upcoming Powerhouse Classic bodybuilding competition. I said yes. 
Then something weird started to happen. The power I had achieved, the power that I spent thousands of dollars and years trying to achieve just freaking took over! I became a sort of monster. Everything pissed me off, my dog, family, friends, TV, everything! I broke things, everything. I was so **** powerful. I could throw anyone around. No one could mess with me! I hated everything. Anger and destruction took over. 
I looked around one day in the gym, and I saw what I had been blinded to before. Almost everyone in the gym was using steroids. The girls the guys, the freaking kids! And they all looked like crap! My roid buddies all were messed up physically and mentally. They were abusive in their relationships, abused alcohol and drugs, were extremely paranoid, had no conscience when it came to selling steroids to teens, and had all sorts of health problems. I looked around, for the first time in my gym life, I really looked around. 
My God, I was becoming just like everyone else. I faced myself in the mirror and saw a person I didnt know. I felt like crap, mentally and physically. I had to stop using steroids right then and there. I did. I started to lose weight and strength rapidly. Every joint in my body hurt bad. My appetite was gone. Patches of hair were left on my pillow. I consulted my friends; most of their words of wisdom had to do with taking more steroids. Yeah right. One buddy just starting his third cycle in the same year said dude, you just gotta stay on the juice! He is no longer around by the way. 
I stopped using roids in late July of 1998 at 225lbs. By November of 1998 I had lost about 15lbs and looked a bit fatter. I had my brother take some pics of me at this time because I knew that I would never look that way again. I felt horrible. By January of 1999 I had lost so much strength and weighed 185lbs. By April of 1999 I weighed 170lbs, and could barely look at myself in the mirror. I couldnt train, sleep, eat or do anything for that matter. My eyes were sunken in my head, my skin looked like it was falling off my bones, my body hurt terribly, and I was horribly depressed. 
What the hell happened to me!! That power that I once had, remember, the power that I spent my freaking life and life savings trying to achieve, was ripped from me completely, plus some! I had no strength or vitality left in me at all, and I was only 24 freaking years old! All the **** roid head writers or know it all roid users had no answers for me now! They told me what **** supplements to take and what steroids are the best, but what about when you get sick. What happens when the god ****ed steroids kill you. What do you take then? None of these bastards have any answers or are willing to help now. 
In April of 2000 I weighed 163lbs was 57, yes two inches shorter, and surprises just kept on coming. Now, not only did I have no strength, couldnt digest food, had pains all over my body, was consumed by depression, had constant thoughts of suicide, and continued to lose weight, but now my skin looked yellow, there were muscle twitches all over my body, and I couldnt sleep more than 2 hours a night! Oh yeah, my hormone levels were basically non-existent. 
By the end of February 2001 I had visited over a dozen doctors and spent thousands upon thousands of dollars trying to get my body back to some sort of normalcy. Nothing and nobody would help me. 
Finally, in 2003, after seeking out every medical, non-medical, and self treatment I could, I started to regain some energy. I began to attempt to exercise again. Once a week, then twice and up to three times per week. Every workout was painfully horrible. I would periodically have bouts of weight loss, digestive problems and pain that would limit me from exercising or doing day- to- day activities, but I pushed myself. I still push myself, everyday. And I still have muscle twitches, weight fluctuations, and pains. My liver has a cyst on it, is painful sometimes, and my digestion is way out of whack. The list goes on. 
I guess Im lucky. Some of my friends are in jail, look worse and feel worse than I do, and some arent around anymore to discuss their mistakes, or waste their time writing stories like this one. 
In my quest to get healthy again, I began my studies of the endocrine system, medicine, and everything there is to know about steroids. My studies lead me down a different path, which has shown me how lucky I really am, to know what I know now. However, there is not a day that goes by that I wish I never made that mistake of using steroids. Not ONE day! 
Passage 03/08/2005: This is a short version of a story I wrote in 2003, a few years after doing steroids. Several things have been left out due to protecting privacy of others, and explicit content. This story is just a brief overview of what four months of steroids did for me. 
Anabolic steroids gave me strength, muscles, power, rage, depression, false sense of confidence, hair loss, and so on. What they took from me; my life as I knew it and what it could have been. It stole my youth, health, natural genetic potential, money, pride, confidence, and left me with side effects that I have battled with for over 7 years. Great deal, uh. Wow, four months of roids for seven years of pain!!! I hope to God, that the youth of today do not mimic the mistakes of the pro athletes ahead of them, who use drugs in order to pursue stardom. Instead strive for innate excellence and excellence shall be achieved indefinitely, use drugs to achieve excellence and excellence will only be achieved using drugs; which will surely end in destruction of the athlete.

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## LACBodybuilder

Saw that on the Taylor Hooton or whatever website. Way to keep the thread alive.

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## avillus

it will never die

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## Juice08

Long Live This Thread!!!  :Cool:

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## EcToMoRpHiAn

I just wanted to bump this cuz I read it a couple of months ago and think everybody should watch this whack A$$ guy talk about all the stuff he injected and didnt know what it was doing

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## slizzut

hahahaha taken from his webpage testimonials on his diet:
"I used to think it was necessary to perform cardio and carb deplete prior to
contests. I couldn't have been more wrong! I started working with
ProfessionalDiets.com in January of 2003, to prepare me for the Musclemania
in October of 2003. I did no cardio, no fat burners and had no low carb days.
I came in bigger, fuller and shredded to the bone!
George Zanellato - Lifetime Natural Competitor
Police Officer"

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## avillus

bump

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## dirtyvegas

all i can say about this is WOW..dont know what to think of it all

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## Joey2ness

http://steroidsviciouscycles.com/HTMLobj-1422/SVCcollegeLecture05(2).html

Hey SVC are you really the same guy in the video above? 
and I wanna know which AAS gave you the most muscle definition without increase weight or size by alot.

I have another question when did Todd Ganci die? or is Todd still alive!

Thanks, JN

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## AG5678

bro i posted a thread of a recent story he wrote about himself.....

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=179715

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## Dave321

bump for other thread...

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## Moe-mentum

Stupid link isn't working...grrrrr :Rant:

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## bignatt

there is no way this thread got bumped

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## Testostack

Ain't working for me  :Frown:

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## KINGKONG

> there is no way this thread got bumped


 :Wink/Grin:  it's an oldie

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## Seattle Junk

> check this out! this guy is a total tool. He is selling his own "diet program" and nutritional suppliments. As well as "composing" bodybuilders posing music!!! (for a fee of course)
> 
> http://www.professionaldiets.com/index_html.htm
> http://www.tganci.com/index_html2c.htm
> 
> 
> what a jackass. He is making money off of people that are doing what he said not to.



His quote makes me lmfao...

I'm 44 years old,
I workout 2 times a week for 20 minutes
at home on a Band Flex machine,
I consume lots of carbs, 
I perform No Cardio
and sleep approx. 5 hrs per night...
IMAGINE WHAT MY DIET CAN DO FOR YOU!


Are you selling sumthin???

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## Seattle Junk

http://steroidsviciouscycles.com/HTM...ture05(2).html

Here's a video link that works.

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## Seattle Junk

I just listened to this jackass for about a half hour. I'm convinced he's a idiot now. He recommends push/pull routines and doesn't know anything about modern AAS & GH use. Everything he says sounds dated from the 80's. He's like a preacher now that condemns the use of steroids cause he screwed his own life up with incorrect usage and training. I'm not a young guy myself so I don't think I'm indestructible. I think AAS, GH, etc and proper training makes me healthier and it will make me live a longer life with sustained health. Of course that's just IMO. You know, kind of like this Todd guy.

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## bignatt

> it's an oldie


what the fvck is goin on dude how are ya

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## Moe-mentum

> http://steroidsviciouscycles.com/HTM...ture05(2).html
> 
> Here's a video link that works.


Thanks Junk.
Holy shit, cry me a river :Aajack:

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## KINGKONG

> what the fvck is goin on dude how are ya


whats up buddy..Iam just working and working out every once in awhile I surf the boards to make sure PPL arnt getting smart on me..They don't seem to be :Hmmmm:  LOL How is your conditioning coming along?Iam WAYY fatter than I want to be, carbs are getting dropped today so by 7 tonight when my bloodsugar levels are nothing, I'll be a mean dude..Anyways PM me sometime we should chat bro..

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## KINGKONG

BTW someone throw this thread in the recycle bin..SVC is dead from all his steriod overuse anyways :0piss:  this thread :0piss:  svc

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