# STEROIDS FORUM > ANABOLIC STEROIDS - QUESTIONS & ANSWERS >  HCG: Why you should use it on-cycle only & how to prepare your hCG for injections

## austinite

*Introduction*

There seems to be quite a bit of confusion regarding hCG , it's timing, benefits and risks. Per your request, I'm writing this article in hopes to clear some of the confusion up. It's entirely necessary that you understand clearly, so if anything in this article is confusing, please ask questions. Whether you choose to use this info or not, you should at least familiarize yourself with hCG so that you can make more informed decisions going forward. 

*In order to understand the terminology in this thread*, you will need to read at least the first segment of the HPTA article located here.


*What Is hCG?*

hCG stands for *H*uman *C*horionic *G*onadotropin. This is a hormone produced in pregnant women. It's extracted from their urine. 

*- Human* is obviously, human. 
*- Chorionic* references the Chorion, which is a membrane that surrounds the fetus of pregnant females. 
*- Gonadotrophins* references Luteinizing Hormones (LH) in this case.


*Why you should use hCG ON cycle:*

If you listened to me in the introduction of this thread, you would have read the HPTA segment in the linked thread above. So I'm typing with that assumption. 

We know that steroids shut down production of LH at the pituitary. This means you no longer produce natural testosterone because there's nothing to stimulate your Leydig Cells in the testes. The reason your testicals normally look "full", is because they're loaded with testosterone. When your natural testosterone production is suppressed, your testes atrophy (shrink), because they're empty. Make sense?

Injecting hCG results in a "mimicked" LH. So although your pituitary gland is not secreting LH, your leydig cells, in the presence of hCG, are stimulated by the mimicked LH and begin to produce testosterone. So there's your solution for preventing testicular atrophy while on cycle. But there's more to hCG than just reversing atrophy. Let's have a quick look at some other reasons to use hCG.

_Benefits of hCG during your cycle:_

*1. Prevention of testicular atrophy.*
-- This is done by mimicking LH and restarting natural testosterone production in the testes.

*2. Speed up recovery.*
-- This is done by mimicking LH so that your Leydig cells remain stimulated. More on this in the next segment.

*3. Balances hormonal fluctuation. (Mainly TRT patients and dose dependant)*
-- By strategically timing hCG injections, you will prevent "dips" in serum levels. 

*4. hCG in involved in the process of production for DHEA, Cortisol and Pregnenolone.*
-- A host of benefits here. These benefits will combat fatigue and stress, betters your mood, has a role in energy, reduced cardiovascular risk, immune stimulation, betters memory, and more.


*Leydig Cell Desensitization:*

Desensitization basically means unresponsive. Your Leydig cells are stimulated by the LH signal. If they no longer respond to LH, you will not produce testosterone. 

There are 2 ways that could *potentially* desensitize Leydig Cells:

*1. Prolonged LH deprivation:* When you inject steroids, your LH production is halted at the pituitary, remember? So if you continue in a suppressed state for weeks upon weeks, your Leydig Cells could potentially become unresponsive, or desensitized. It is possible to reverse desensitization of the cells, but that has been proven to be quite a difficult task. So when you use hCG on cycle, the mimicked LH analog will maintain stimulation of Leydig cells so that you don't run the risk of rendering them useless. This level of maintenance will ensure a much healthier and speedy recovery and one of the most important reasons to use hCG on cycle. 

*2. Over stimulation of Leydig cells:* There is no reason to use more than 500 IU of hCG at one time. And certainly not a good idea to run even that dose on a daily basis. You do not have an unlimited-ever-flowing-supply of Leydig cells. There is only so much stimulation hCG can do. What happens when you dose hCG really high, is that you're increasing intra-testicular estrogen. So you're thinking that you could use an aromatase inhibitor in that case, right? Nope. AI's are not effective treatment for intra-testicular e2. Furthermore; high doses is a surefire way to desensitize Leydig Cells. So we have a double whammy here. And this is just another reason to use hCG on cycle, and not "blast" hCG post cycle leading up to and/or during PCT. 

^ If either of the events above occur, you would become hypogonadal (Low T). This is called dingdong-induced *Primary Hypogonadism*. You're the dingdong by the way. But wait, there's more...


*Why You Should Not Use hCG Post Cycle:*

Let's establish what we are trying to accomplish here. You just got done with your cycle and you've been suppressed for however many weeks. We want to bring our *natural* HPTA back to life, can we all agree on that? If you said no, please ask Mom if she dropped you on your head when you were a baby. Moving on...

*hCG is suppressive!* Since we know that hCG mimics LH, then we know that in the presence of exogenous LH, the pituitary gland will not produce LH. Hang on a minute! You see that word in blue above? It says "natural". So which one is natural? The one I just induced by using hCG, or the one coming from the pituitary? Doh! The pituitary of course! So why? Why on earth would you want to suppress your pituitary with hCG when you're trying to recover?! "_Ain't nobody got time for dat!_" Are we clear on this one, folks? If you said no, you know what to do...

So next time you meet Rich Piana. Tell him that he is a dingdong, and he's hurting a lot of people with his statements. Please, Rich. stop hurting people. (Jon Stewart voice)

SERMS! Clomid and Nolva are not suppressive. In fact, they work on your brain to help the pea sized gland pump out your precious LH. That is all you should be using for PCT. Otherwise, it would be like walking into a closed door and never being able to get inside. Would you constantly walk into a door without being able to get inside? Wait... that's doing the wrong thing over and over again. I'm pretty sure that's referred to as insane. Ok, enough comedy. Lame, I know. Sorry, I'm not kelkel. 


*How To Properly Mix hCG*

As you all know, hcg comes in a powder form and needs to be mixed with bacteriostatic water in preparation for injections. In this example, we will use a 5,000 unit vial. Obviously, you need to observe the math and adjust according to how you want your hCG concentrated per CC. 

*Step 1:* Transfer 5 CC's of bacteriostatic water into the vial containing your hCG powder. No more than 3 CC's at once.

*Step 2:* After each bacteriostatic water transfer, you'll need to draw out just as much air to release pressure. 

*Step 3:* Swirl the mix gently and keep it in the refrigerator. 

Once you've completed your mix above, you now have a 5,000 iu vial that contains 1,000 iu's of hCG for every CC. So if you want to shoot 250iu, that would be 0.25 CC/ML. Or 25 units on a slin pin. I personally use injectable B12 to mix my hCG. Helps me get both B12 and hCG in one shot.

*How the Math Works for Mixing hCG
*
I'm adding this segment because it seems a lot of people still don't understand how to calculate their doses after mixing. Note that CC and ML are the same thing. So here is the math to prevent anymore questions about this...

A standard insulin syringe can hold 1 CC in volume. Each barrel will have markings in 1 unit increments up to 100. So each CC displays 100 unit markings.

*Step 1:* Amount of hCG units in a vial DIVIDED BY total CC's of solution added = Amount of hCG you will have per CC. 
*Step 1 example:* 10,000 / 10 = 1,000

*Step 2:* Amount of hCG per CC (result of step 1) DIVIDED BY 100 (number of units on a slin pin) = amount of hCG per unit.
*Step 2 example:* 1,000 / 100 = 10

*Step 3:* Amount desired per injection DIVIDED BY amount of hCG per unit (result of step 2) = Number of units to draw from your mixed vial.
*Step 3 example:* 250 IU / 10 = 25 units. You would draw 25 units, or a quarter of a CC on a slin pin.

Hope that clears it up.


*Let's Clear Up Some Confusion About Handling hCG*

Let's get a few myths out of the way...

*Myth # 1:* hCG must be injected subcutaneously. (This is *not true*, IM injections work just as well. SubQ is fine, but only matters if you're a TRT patient)
*Myth # 2:* I cannot use hCG past 30 days (This is *not true*, use it for 2 months. It'll be fine)
*Myth # 3:* I can use oral hCG I got at the store. (This is *not true* and is simply a complete scam. Avoid it.)

hCG needs to be refrigerated for the sole purpose of preserving potency. It does not "go bad", ever. hCG merely loses potency over time, and at a faster pace when placed at room temperature. 

hCG can be used for 90 days after reconstituting it. After 90 days, it loses approximately 10% potency per month. You can leave hCG at room temperature for about a week with negligible potency loss. No loss if it's in the early stages after mixing. After 90 days, you would simply increase dose to compensate for the 10% loss per month. So for those of you who travel, do not be afraid to take your hCG. No need to go through the extra measure of keeping it cool. 

The reason hCG generally does not arrive mixed, is because in some cases, it is frozen in powder form, which would preserve the compound for millions of years. This way you can thaw the powder and use it at your convenience. Some manufacturers ship premixed compounds, such as the HUCOG brand, which is extracted from pregnant rat urine. 

hCG is not as "fragile" as most of us are led to believe. If you prefer to minimize injections, you can combine your steroid compounds with hCG into the same syringe and inject. The only real way to destroy hCG is by freezing and thawing pre-loaded/premixed syringes, as the ice crystals tend to destroy the proteins. If you decide to freeze your mixed hCG, be sure not to re-freeze it, ever. 

The expiration dates are merely the length of time the potency was tested. This is also used/marketed so that you purchase more of this compound.


*How To Administer hCG*

_How Much hCG do I need on cycle and when do I start?_

Start using it from week 1. Timing does not matter, just spread it out. For cycling, 250 iu two to three times weekly will suffice. Do not use hCG back to back. If you choose twice weekly at that dose, run it every 3.5 days, just like you would with Test cyp. If you choose 3 times weekly, run it Monday, Wednesday and Friday. There's only so much stimulation that can occur with hCG, so you should never bother with doses in excess of 500 iu at once. If you're injecting 250 iu and after several weeks you're still experiencing some issues, increase your dose 100 iu's at a time, not to exceed 500 iu's twice weekly. Your weekly grand total should never have to exceed 1000 IU, ever.

If you inject your hCG subcutaneously, always be sure that you do not inject more than 0.6 CC at once. Volumes greater than 0.6 CC will result in lumps under your skin that can be quite uncomfortable and in some cases painful to the touch. This goes for anything that is injected subQ, including testosterone, B12 & hCG. This is volume related, not iu or milligram related. So be sure to mix your hCG with a concentration resulting in about half of a CC or less. 

Injections in subcutaneous fat should be administered using a syringe with a high gauge. Some folks use a 27 gauge syringe, but I prefer a 29 gauge. Even a 31 gauge works great. Water based compounds get through the tiny bore with ease.

If injecting in a muscle, do not flex it. Just relax and inject. If injecting subQ, just find a good spot about 2 to 6 inches from the naval and inject.

That's all folks. Have a powerful day,

~ _Austinite_

----------


## Samialfa1

Thank u for such a thread really explains every thing

----------


## kelkel

Outstanding again! Even though you picked on me.

People really have fat 6 inches from their navel?

pm coming your way.

----------


## Bio-Active

Great write up as usual austinite. Myself being such a big advocate of hcg it's really nice to have this info to refer to and the bonus I just enjoyed reading it  :Smilie:

----------


## tgunn

Great thread austinite! Seems like I see a new thread each week with someone needing info on using hcg ...I see a sticky in the near future! 

"Ain't nobody got time for dat!" 

Lol!!!!!

----------


## Java Man

Great write up. Now there is a one post response tto all those inevitable newbie questons abut HCG that have been answered here many times over but I don't think any of the older stickies explain all aspects of it in one place as yours does.

----------


## probuild42

Great read!

One question. So you mix your b12 with the hcg instead of bac water? or both? I would assume it depends on the concentration of B12. The B12 does not effect the HCG?

----------


## austinite

> Great read!
> 
> One question. So you mix your b12 with the hcg instead of bac water? or both? I would assume it depends on the concentration of B12. The B12 does not effect the HCG?


Just B12. Works great.

----------


## andi8814

Great post! I have one question, here in my country I get the vet version very cheap but it brings 3750 iu of gc, is too much to use one every week?

----------


## austinite

> Great post! I have one question, here in my country I get the vet version very cheap but it brings 3750 iu of gc, is too much to use one every week?


Answered in the article, bud.

----------


## andi8814

Oh sorry I just read it. Can you tell me what are the risks of exceed 1000 i.u. per week? Thx!

----------


## austinite

> Oh sorry I just read it. Can you tell me what are the risks of exceed 1000 i.u. per week? Thx!


Answered in the article, bud.

----------


## andi8814

Increase intratesticular estrogen! Got it Thx

----------


## uoflcards

And what if you couldn't store your HCG in the fridge? Like say you didn't want questions as to why you have a vial of something in the fridge that might be linked to gear?

----------


## andi8814

Can't u hide it somewhere in there? I'm the master of hidden the insuline vial between the veggies, Copperfield style!  :Big Grin:

----------


## uoflcards

> Can't u hide it somewhere in there? I'm the master of hidden the insuline vial between the veggies, Copperfield style!


Might have to give it a try. That is once I find some legit HCG .

----------


## Cuz

so the oral HCG is just crap...dammit. If it sounds too easy then it is.

----------


## andi8814

Yeap, no way the peptide chain can survey the digestive process

----------


## johnnymctrance

nice,,,,

----------


## EasyDoesIt

Good to know that it works for 2 months. That was always one i was not sure of. Thanks for the article!

----------


## BluPhin

So hcg is to be used each week on cycle, then discontinued immediately after last test injection of cycle? This is important for me to find out since my previous trt protocol called for hcg in the two weeks between end of cycle and beginning of pct

----------


## kelkel

If you're on TRT you do not need PCT, ever and your HCG protocol does not need to change.

----------


## BluPhin

> If you're on TRT you do not need PCT, ever and your HCG protocol does not need to change.


I'm no longer on trt. However, I was once on a trt protocol. When I exited this program I had to go through pct. I was advised to blast hcg at 500iu/day between my last test injection and commencement of my pct

----------


## austinite

> So hcg is to be used each week on cycle, then discontinued immediately after last test injection of cycle? This is important for me to find out since my previous trt protocol called for hcg in the two weeks between end of cycle and beginning of pct


Yes, discontinue when your steroid injections end.

----------


## austinite

> And what if you couldn't store your HCG in the fridge? Like say you didn't want questions as to why you have a vial of something in the fridge that might be linked to gear?


lol. I guess I forgot to list stashing solutions? 

Get a mini fridge for your room, move out of moms house, or locate your gonads.

----------


## kelkel

> lol. I guess I forgot to list stashing solutions? 
> 
> Get a mini fridge for your room, move out of moms house, *or locate your gonads*.


Exceptionally funny for you!

----------


## clarky.

:Doody de Doo: ....

----------


## austinite

> Exceptionally funny for you!


lol. Trying to keep up with you.

----------


## Othello

> lol. I guess I forgot to list stashing solutions?
> 
> Get a mini fridge for your room, move out of moms house, or locate your gonads.


I redecorated the house adding a mini bar with a fridge under it ...i hide my gh underneath the cranberry cans...

HCG is left at the pharmacy as i inject it there...no questions asked  :Wink:

----------


## JinNtonic

awesomeness right there.

----------


## JinNtonic

> lol. I guess I forgot to list stashing solutions? 
> 
> Get a mini fridge for your room, move out of moms house, or locate your gonads.


Awesomeness

----------


## JinNtonic

I have been doing 100iu ed. So do you think 2-3 per week is better?

----------


## austinite

> I have been doing 100iu ed. So do you think 2-3 per week is better?


Use the least amount that works for you. No reason to hCG daily though.

----------


## Fcastle357

> Can't u hide it somewhere in there? I'm the master of hidden the insuline vial between the veggies, Copperfield style!


You need to visit the lounge and comment on hiding your hobby . Good stuff

----------


## andi8814

> You need to visit the lounge and comment on hiding your hobby . Good stuff


lol, ok sure! I'm going to reveal the secrets behind the magic, it includes lettuce bags and brocoli ;D

----------


## AnabolicBoy1981

> I'm no longer on trt. However, I was once on a trt protocol. When I exited this program I had to go through pct. I was advised to blast hcg at 500iu/day between my last test injection and commencement of my pct


curious, how long were you on the TRT when you ended it? and how long did it take for you to recover?

----------


## Fcastle357

> lol, ok sure! I'm going to reveal the secrets behind the magic, it includes lettuce bags and brocoli ;D


Looks like you could hide it under your peck  :Smilie: 
The chest muscle of corse.

----------


## austinite

And we're back. On topic, that is  :Wink:

----------


## Fcastle357

> And we're back. On topic, that is


Hmm... Yes yes... Hcg very good read. Thank you. Completely agree.

----------


## Othello

Aust quick question...how would the mixing formula become if the HCG came in 1500iu vials?

----------


## austinite

> Aust quick question...how would the mixing formula become if the HCG came in 1500iu vials?


Are you asking me to do the math for you? I'll do it for you but I just want to be clear that's what you mean.

----------


## Othello

> Are you asking me to do the math for you? I'll do it for you but I just want to be clear that's what you mean.


hehehe

Well its not the maths per se...its the qty of bac water that should be used in order to be able to easily measure 500iu ...from what i gathered, if i use 1ml of Bac water with the 1500iu powdered form, I would get a solution of concentration 1500 iu per ml. so 500 should be 1/3 of a ML...but I dont trust my maths in the mornings  :Smilie:

----------


## austinite

How much hCG do you want in 1 CC?

----------


## Othello

> How much hCG do you want in 1 CC?


Ideally id say 500 ius since ill be doing 2 shots per week...

----------


## austinite

> Ideally id say 500 ius since ill be doing 2 shots per week...


For 500 IU per CC, you would add 3 CC of BAC water. 

You see... 1500 divided by 500 = 3.

----------


## Othello

> For 500 IU per CC, you would add 3 CC of BAC water. 
> 
> You see... 1500 divided by 500 = 3.


I told you I dont trust my maths in the morning  :Wink:  (which considering I did a double major of maths and computer science back at uni should say a lot :P)

again thanks man for the info....

when i look back at all the stuff I did!!! 

heck on the last 2 cycles i was injecting myself a full 5000iu !!! once between last test pin and PCT and on the second cycle i was doing it every other week during the cycle...before that no HCG !!! no AI even!!!!!! 

test less cycles, pin less cycles (primo tabs, andriol tabs, dbol , anapolon ARRRGH) but then I didnt know of this site prior to 2006...

it took me like 5 years to realize the sheer stupidity of broscience especially in Lebanese gyms...and today when I see guys gulping down whatever BS so called coaches hand them...it drives me mad. but I am straying OT here...

thanks again for sharing this info and I am not saying this to praise but its a deep thanks from the heart. 

cherio.

----------


## uoflcards

Sorry to go back off topic but my post was made as pretty much a "what to do" type thing if you can't store HCG in your fridge. Me personally I can't because my lady does not know about my gear usage and I don't want her knowing. 

Okay, back on topic.

----------


## basketballfan22

No adoration here, just straight to the questions.

1. Is refrigeration necessary for the same reason it is necessary to refrigerate urine? Does testosterone need to be refrigerated (sorry for the slight tangent)?

2. I know you warned us to not over think this, but that's what I do! If I do this with the same frequency as long-ester testosterone injections (i.e. every 3.5 days), should I do them on the same day? If so, does it matter what compound I inject first? If not, how many days after a testosterone injection should I inject the hCG ?

3. What is the ideal dilution? Does it matter? I assume the more concentrated the solution is, the more painful the injection will be, correct?

----------


## austinite

> No adoration here, just straight to the questions.
> 
> 1. Is refrigeration necessary for the same reason it is necessary to refrigerate urine? Does testosterone need to be refrigerated (sorry for the slight tangent)?
> 
> 2. I know you warned us to not over think this, but that's what I do! If I do this with the same frequency as long-ester testosterone injections (i.e. every 3.5 days), should I do them on the same day? If so, does it matter what compound I inject first? If not, how many days after a testosterone injection should I inject the hCG ?
> 
> 3. What is the ideal dilution? Does it matter? I assume the more concentrated the solution is, the more painful the injection will be, correct?


1. hCG is very sensitive when mixed with solution. Once it's mixed, it can degrade pretty fast. Even in the fridge, after about 90 days, it will lose potency daily until it's rendered useless. This is why you can't save it forever. In powder form, it will last several years. Even 100 years if frozen. Cold temperature preserves your compound, heat or even room temperature will destroy the mix rapidly. Even in the fridge, light should also be avoided, so it should be inside of a dark container. 

2. Yes, you can do them on the same day. The only time it makes sense to to strategically time hCG injections, is when you're administering low replacement doses of testosterone, to help create a balance. This is one reason why it's important for TRT patients. But if you're running 500 mg per week for example, that will overpower anything that hCG can produce anyway. 

3. Really depends on how much you want to inject. I never really get a sting unless I inject before the alcohol swab has dried. But anything with higher concentrations will be less comfortable than lower concentrations. Not necessarily unbearable. So I wouldn't worry about the sting.

----------


## basketballfan22

Thanks. I PMed you a couple more questions because I think they would be overly ridiculous if I posted them here.

----------


## austinite

> Thanks. I PMed you a couple more questions because I think they would be overly ridiculous if I posted them here.


lol. Well, you're welcome to paste my reply here if you feel comfortable.

----------


## basketballfan22

*Me*: If the concentration doesn't really matter, one can feasibly add 1 mL of bacteriostatic water to 5000 IU of hCG so long as the hCG completely dissolved? I guess I don't really understand the need to have different amounts of water so long as you are able to do the math correctly.

This next question is going to sound ridiculous, so I apologize.

The math in determining the quantity to inject is very simple *IF* we assume the volume of the water is the same as the volume of the water *AND* the hCG. If I have _exactly_ 5 mL of water, then I add 5000 IU of hCG, surely the volume will increase a little right? Therefore if I wanted 250 IU of hCG, I shouldn't take 1/4 of a mL; but instead I should take (1/20)(5 + _x_) of a mL, where _x_ is the increase in volume (however small that may be).

Even sugar, as soluble as it is, adds additional volume to water. Why isn't this accounted for with hCG? I am sure this is being overly precise, but still.

*Austinite*: Yeah. But measuring in units sucks. most people prefer to pull to the 1/2 CC mark. Just a preference, no relevancy to potency or anything. With 5000 IU per ML, you'd be pulling 5 units. 1/2 a CC is 50 units. It's tiny and many people are on forums screaming... "Did I inject enough? I could barely see it". Just a preference. Especially if they're using a standard syringe, vs. an insulin pin. Also, some people draw both; testosterone and hCG into the same barrel and inject. Makes it easier to do so if it's not too concentrated. 

You're correct with volume increase, but it's quite negligible. No one on earth that intends to inject 250 IU, actually gets exactly 250 IU. hCG is very effective, some folks don't need but 125 IU twice weekly to bring testes back. So even a 50 IU variance is not relevant. Because it's very forgiving, the excess volume is not accounted for.

Hope that helps.

----------


## FRDave

I personally mix and prefer 2ml of BW with 5000iu of HCG so I only have to inject .10ml (10 units) for a 250iu dose.

----------


## Bignastie69

OK so curious, as i have been told mixed things about hcg . my current cycle is test-prop 250mg/ml 1 1/2cc three times a week, plus taking 150mg drol. 

In my mind my sex drive is still very strong, but not functionally properly when i want to. Ive been told that's the name of the game. 
Reading your review and some others, it talks about helping this problem out some. and also to assist in recovery at the end of cycle. but the concern is being more fertile, i am married with no kids and we have no intentions right now for kids. rather not have a mishap. Curious what your thoughts are or what you know. 

Thanks

----------


## austinite

> OK so curious, as i have been told mixed things about hcg . my current cycle is test-prop 250mg/ml 1 1/2cc three times a week, plus taking 150mg drol. 
> 
> In my mind my sex drive is still very strong, but not functionally properly when i want to. Ive been told that's the name of the game. 
> Reading your review and some others, it talks about helping this problem out some. and also to assist in recovery at the end of cycle. but the concern is being more fertile, i am married with no kids and we have no intentions right now for kids. rather not have a mishap. Curious what your thoughts are or what you know. 
> 
> Thanks


Having a hard time finding a question there, Big. Fertility should not be an issue. hCG will help by saving your Leydig cells, which produce testosterone , which when coupled with FSH stimulate sertoli cells to make sperm. 

If fertility ever becomes an issue directly due to FSH problems, you would use HMG, not hCG. But in any event, hCG is the first line of defense.

----------


## NorthKorean

great thread for a complete newbie <-----

Quick clarification. You said should not be used more than 2 months did you mean once you mix do not use the solution if its older than 2 months or not to administer the hCG for longer than 2 consecutive months.

----------


## austinite

> great thread for a complete newbie <-----
> 
> Quick clarification. You said should not be used more than 2 months did you mean once you mix do not use the solution if its older than 2 months or not to administer the hCG for longer than 2 consecutive months.


Correct. Once it's mixed, you have 60 days to use it where it's potency is still effective. I've used it up to 120 days in the past. Still works, but a percentage of potency is depleted every day. 

Powder form will last several years at room temperature, or 100+ years if frozen.

----------


## Bignastie69

Not worried about the fertility part really. 

What i am looking for is basically a way to stay on cycle and my junk work a little more to the norm. My friends are telling me if i run hcg with drol, that they will cancel each other out. I understand the risk of cycling and that i take the chance of it not working properly. I just want it to work a little more, or should i say stay up longer.

----------


## austinite

> Not worried about the fertility part really. 
> 
> What i am looking for is basically a way to stay on cycle and my junk work a little more to the norm. My friends are telling me if i run hcg with drol, that they will cancel each other out. I understand the risk of cycling and that i take the chance of it not working properly. I just want it to work a little more, or should i say stay up longer.


If that's your only concern, please visit the Cialis thread. This thread is for those who want to be safe and maintain healthy now and in the future.

----------


## Volkan

I'm on this site I won't name unless asked for, they come in a 5,000iu vial and are named/priced as the following;

28 Day HCG Injections Kit
28 Day - $???.??

Not sure if I'm on the right page here :/ Kinda difficult shopping around for this.
It's categorised as a weight loss program, if I lose any weight I'll defs fall under 6% BF which is F*****.

Buying hcg from an online pharmacy would be the best bet though, right?

----------


## austinite

> I'm on this site I won't name unless asked for, they come in a 5,000iu vial and are named/priced as the following;
> 
> 28 Day HCG Injections Kit
> 28 Day - $********
> 
> Not sure if I'm on the right page here :/ Kinda difficult shopping around for this.


Edit your post immediately please, No price discussion on this board.

----------


## BlueWaffle21

I think Ausinite was giving the easiest way to mix it so that you can't possibly screw it up with the 5 cc's of Bac Water. If you can't get this straight then you shouldn't be juicing at all. I personally prefer 2 cc's so that I only have to shoot .1 so that there is less liquid going in my body. It's still easy math so some people don't get it I'm sure that is why he recommends the 5 cc's, it's just cut and dry that way.

Great write up!

----------


## Volkan

I'm not so if I should inject the hCG SubQ or IM, is SubQ painless, easy and comfortable ..? IM sounds the way to go but want your opinion Aust <3

And what needle for SubQ? 1" for glute?

----------


## austinite

> I'm not so if I should inject the hCG SubQ or IM, is SubQ painless, easy and comfortable ..? IM sounds the way to go but want your opinion Aust <3
> 
> And what needle for SubQ? 1" for glute?


How To Administer hCG


Let's get a few myths out of the way...


Myth # 1: hCG must be injected subcutaneously. (This is not true, IM injections work just as well. Although SubQ is super easy and preferred)
Myth # 2: I cannot use hCG past 30 days (This is not true, use it for 2 months. It'll be fine)
Myth # 3: I can use oral hCG I got at the store. (This is not true and is simply a complete scam. Avoid it.)


How Much hCG do I need on cycle?


For cycling, 250 iu two to three times weekly will suffice. Do not use hCG back to back. If you choose twice weekly at that dose, run it every 3.5 days, just like you would with Test cyp. If you choose 3 times weekly, run it Monday, Wednesday and Friday. There's only so much stimulation that can occur with hCG, so you should never bother with doses in excess of 500 iu at once. If you're injecting 250 iu and after several weeks you're still experiencing some issues, increase your dose 100 iu's at a time, not to exceed 500 iu's twice weekly. Your weekly grand total should never have to exceed 1000 IU, ever.


If you inject your hCG subcutaneously, always be sure that you do not inject more than 0.6 CC at once. Volumes greater than 0.6 CC will result in lumps under your skin that can be quite uncomfortable and in some cases painful to the touch. This goes for anything that is injected subQ, including testosterone , B12 & hCG. This is volume related, not iu or milligram related. So be sure to mix your hCG with a concentration resulting in about half of a CC or less. 


Injections in subcutaneous fat should be administered using a syringe with a high gauge. Some folks use a 27 gauge syringe, but I prefer a 29 gauge. Even a 31 gauge works great. Water based compounds get through the tiny bore with ease.


If injecting in a muscle, do not flex it. Just relax and inject. If injecting subQ, just find a good spot about 2 to 6 inches from the naval and inject.


That's all folks. Have a powerful day,

----------


## kelkel

> How To Administer hCG 
> 
> 
> Let's get a few myths out of the way...
> 
> 
> *If injecting in a muscle, do not flex it.*



Dammit.

----------


## Volkan

Yeah I read that post atleast 30 times, IDK why I asked that question, I think I needed reassurance lmao!

Something about them subq shots makes me feel light headed, what gauge would you recommend for a muscle shot? I'm using 25 1"s at the moment.

Thanks Austin!

edit; or do those subq gauge needles work the same for muscle, as you stated?, i'm still a b*tch with needles after 3 years, I go for like the maximum gauge that works when injecting anything lol...

----------


## austinite

23 to 25g 1 "

----------


## Volkan

Why have you got a shirt on? I wouldn't wear clothes anymore with that build, just sayin'

----------


## base4291ball

> How To Administer hCG 
> 
> Let's get a few myths out of the way...
> 
> Myth # 1: hCG must be injected subcutaneously. (This is not true, IM injections work just as well. Although SubQ is super easy and preferred)
> Myth # 2: I cannot use hCG past 30 days (This is not true, use it for 2 months. It'll be fine)
> Myth # 3: I can use oral hCG I got at the store. (This is not true and is simply a complete scam. Avoid it.)
> 
> How Much hCG do I need on cycle?
> ...


That's not in your hcg thread? Lol

----------


## austinite

> That's not in your hcg thread? Lol


'Yes it is. Why would my answer change?

----------


## base4291ball

> 'Yes it is. Why would my answer change?


Sarcasm? Haha

----------


## austinite

^ Are you asking a question, or flooding? Just curious.

----------


## teezer33

> Answered in the article, bud.


Well that cleared alot of issues up, my only problem is now that I am looking at your avatar, it's making me really hungry.

----------


## cad78

Austinite, which b12 do you use with your hcG ? I've been looking on amazon and there are quite a few different brands with quite a difference in cost. I'm on TRT and would like to do hcg and b12 in the same subq injection. I have read that you prefer the methylcobalamin b12, just wondering which exact one, some are combined with other ingredients.

Thanks  :Smilie:

----------


## austinite

> Austinite, which b12 do you use with your hcG ? I've been looking on amazon and there are quite a few different brands with quite a difference in cost. I'm on TRT and would like to do hcg and b12 in the same subq injection. I have read that you prefer the methylcobalamin b12, just wondering which exact one, some are combined with other ingredients.
> 
> Thanks


American Regent, Prescription. The only ones combined with other compounds should be Hydroxocobalamin.

----------


## base4291ball

Should I inject hcg same day as Testo e or on dif day or does it matter?

----------


## austinite

ON cycle, it does not matter when you inject.

----------


## Mp859

I usually do it the day before

----------


## base4291ball

> I usually do it the day before


Thankss! Will prob do it 12h before test pin, thanks

----------


## base4291ball

> Thankss! Will prob do it 12h before test pin, thanks


Any harm doing it same time as test?

----------


## austinite

> Any harm doing it same time as test?


On cycle, it doesn't matter when you inject.

----------


## base4291ball

[QUOTE="austinite"] On cycle, it doesn't matter when you inject.[/QUOTE
Thanks austinite

----------


## cypher0000

Just wanted to say thanks for the write up! I've just started my first test e cycle and have read so much conflicting information regarding when to use HCG but have seen many people recommending on cycle. 

This method makes sense to me after studying it but when telling people who are more experienced with AAS that I'm going to do HCG on cycle I get shouted down and linked to videos of Rich Piana saying its the wrong thing to do. 

Anyway thanks again!

----------


## austinite

> Just wanted to say thanks for the write up! I've just started my first test e cycle and have read so much conflicting information regarding when to use HCG but have seen many people recommending on cycle. 
> 
> This method makes sense to me after studying it but when telling people who are more experienced with AAS that I'm going to do HCG on cycle I get shouted down and linked to videos of Rich Piana saying its the wrong thing to do. 
> 
> Anyway thanks again!


Glad you can make use of it. Rich Piana is clueless to modern medicine and considerably unhealthy on the inside, no matter how big he gets  :Smilie:

----------


## ZaLkeN

Austinite you rock!!!

----------


## brazuka

About to prepare my hCG , this was very easy to follow and helped tremendously! Just wondering though could I inject subq with a 25g needle or do you need to use a slin pin to inject subq? I've never injected subq before so I'm actually a bit nervous and don't know much about it that's why this question may be a silly one to ask.

Also do you think the hCG would be good and effective for 10 full weeks? I know you said 2 months but I'm wondering if the extra 2 weeks will make such a big difference since I would be doing 500 a week and my vial is 5,000iu? Thank you  :Smilie: !

----------


## Garcia13

How long would a 5000iu vial last me if I plan on pinning 250iu's every 3.5 days? I plan on using it for 10 weeks. Thanks! I suck at math.
And also, If i wanted to do intra-muscular injection with the HcG , would the 23g needle be okay like it's done with Test?

----------


## austinite

> How long would a 5000iu vial last me if I plan on pinning 250iu's every 3.5 days? I plan on using it for 10 weeks. Thanks! I suck at math.
> And also, If i wanted to do intra-muscular injection with the HcG, would the 23g needle be okay like it's done with Test?


5000/500=10 weeks

----------


## OnTheSauce

I don't believe it will stay potent that long though. Degrades about a four weeks doesn't it?

----------


## austinite

Hcg good for 90 to 120 days. That's compounded pharmacy hcg.

----------


## >Good Luck<

Ive heard a few times that you can mix the hcg , divide it into two different vials and freeze one so it will be more fresh for the second half of a cycle. Once frozen, once thawed out, then maintained in the fridge. Is this bs?

----------


## senorrebo

Mix the 5000 ius, fill your pins, then stick them in the freezer. Pull out the pin 5 minutes before you use it.

----------


## BADAXE

Thanks for the excellent information.
One question: 
When should the HcG be started during, say, a 12 week cycle? Immediately? Week 4? 6? 10?
If suppression occurs after 3-4 weeks then should that be the starting point for the 2x/week HgC injections?

----------


## austinite

> Thanks for the excellent information.
> One question: 
> When should the HcG be started during, say, a 12 week cycle? Immediately? Week 4? 6? 10?
> If suppression occurs after 3-4 weeks then should that be the starting point for the 2x/week HgC injections?


Start using it from week 1. Timing does not matter, just spread it out. Suppression does not occur in 3 to 4 weeks. The minute you inject, the process begins.

----------


## adrenaline99

My 5,000IU HCG vials came with 2ml sodium chloride amps and the directions say 2 ml amp per 5,000 IU Hcg vial, should i just mix it with those amps or use the 5CC bacteriostatic water per vial? i have bac water handy.

----------


## austinite

> My 5,000IU HCG vials came with 2ml sodium chloride amps and the directions say 2 ml amp per 5,000 IU Hcg vial, should i just mix it with those amps or use the 5CC bacteriostatic water per vial? i have bac water handy.


bac water is best. Lasts longer that way.

----------


## adrenaline99

> bac water is best. Lasts longer that way.


Great, thanks. So just disregard the SC amps and use the 5cc's of bac water?

----------


## austinite

> Great, thanks. So just disregard the SC amps and use the 5cc's of bac water?


bac water is best. Yes.

----------


## Psaletta

Just to clarify. 5000iu HCG is to be mixed with 5ml bac water correct? Why would his instructions guild him to use 2?

----------


## austinite

> Just to clarify. 5000iu HCG is to be mixed with 5ml bac water correct? Why would his instructions guild him to use 2?


my formula is merely to simplify math. You can mix it however you want. Doesn't matter.

----------


## Psaletta

> my formula is merely to simplify math. You can mix it however you want. Doesn't matter.


I just read your thread on HCG yesterday and mixed a new batch last night. That's why I was asking. Thanks aust

----------


## ZenBro

Great article for future reference  :Smilie: 
Thank you!

----------


## L-j

I watched the hCG video in the steroid profiles section they say that the body can become dependant on the LH effect from the hCG which can lead to permanant low test condition. Can somone explain this? thanks awesome thread btw

----------


## austinite

> I watched the hCG video in the steroid profiles section they say that the body can become dependant on the LH effect from the hCG which can lead to permanant low test condition. Can somone explain this? thanks awesome thread btw


What video? Please post a link.

----------


## L-j

steroid (DOT)com/HCG .php

dont have 25 posts to put proper link. Vid is all the way at bottom of page

----------


## austinite

> steroid (DOT)com/HCG .php
> 
> dont have 25 posts to put proper link. Vid is all the way at bottom of page


Video is outdated. We know more today than we did when the video was posted.

----------


## L-j

alright thx, love ur posts btw very informative keep it up

----------


## kelkel

I even know more today then yesterday, I think. Let me check my notes....

----------


## powerlifterty16

> Just to clarify. 5000iu HCG is to be mixed with 5ml bac water correct? Why would his instructions guild him to use 2?


easiest way ive found!

----------


## Arnoldtobe

So the stuff I purchased came with 1ml bottle of sodium chloride and bottle of 5000iu hCG . Does not sound right from everything I've been reading. Do I just mix the two? I bought multiple packages but amount doesn't seem right. Might be way off or was mistaken when I purchased.

----------


## austinite

> So the stuff I purchased came with 1ml bottle of sodium chloride and bottle of 5000iu hCG. Does not sound right from everything I've been reading. Do I just mix the two? I bought multiple packages but amount doesn't seem right. Might be way off or was mistaken when I purchased.


easier to use bac water. Get bac water and measure as listed in the post.

----------


## Arnoldtobe

> easier to use bac water. Get bac water and measure as listed in the post.


Will do. Thanks

----------


## Arnoldtobe

Is it listed under another name on sponsored site?

----------


## chi-town

Is it ok to put the HCG in the same shot as Test and do it all in one shot?

----------


## austinite

> Is it ok to put the HCG in the same shot as Test and do it all in one shot?


yes. As stated you can certainly do that. .

----------


## chi-town

First time using HCG , figured I would give it a shot after reading your article. Thx Austinite appreciate all the great educational articles  :Thumps Up:

----------


## CaptainSuperAwesome

Is it possible to find hcg premixed ? And if doing IM. injections, Can they be done same day as test?

----------


## Arnoldtobe

Ok, I have 5000iu hCG which came in a 1ml vial. Can I add 1ml to the hCG, then withdraw and put in 10ml vial. Then add 4ml to that to have my total of 5ml. Sound right? Sorry for confusion but hCG coming in such a small vial has confused me in what I read in your original post. Thanks in advance.

----------


## Arnoldtobe

> Ok, I have 5000iu hCG which came in a 1ml vial. Can I add 1ml to the hCG, then withdraw and put in 10ml vial. Then add 4ml to that to have my total of 5ml. Sound right? Sorry for confusion but hCG coming in such a small vial has confused me in what I read in your original post. Thanks in advance.


Add 1ml of Bac water that is...

----------


## austinite

> Is it possible to find hcg premixed ? And if doing IM. injections, Can they be done same day as test?


Yes. HUCOG brand. Yes, they can be done same day as test.




> Ok, I have 5000iu hCG which came in a 1ml vial. Can I add 1ml to the hCG, then withdraw and put in 10ml vial. Then add 4ml to that to have my total of 5ml. Sound right? Sorry for confusion but hCG coming in such a small vial has confused me in what I read in your original post. Thanks in advance.


Yep.

----------


## smile

> Myth # 2: I cannot use hCG past 30 days (This is not true, use it for 2 months. It'll be fine)


So If I plan on doing a 10 week cycle and hCG is only good for 8 weeks(2 months) I should start at the beginning of week 3 ?

----------


## austinite

> So If I plan on doing a 10 week cycle and hCG is only good for 8 weeks(2 months) I should start at the beginning of week 3 ?


No. Start week one. the 2 months I mentioned was really just to show that the 30 day rule is nonsense. It never goes bad. It just loses 10% potency per month after about the 3rd or 4th month. So you can use it for as long as you have it. Just draw 10% more after the 3rd month.

----------


## austinite

Added the following segment to the original article....

*Let's Clear Up Some Confusion About Handling hCG*

hCG needs to be refrigerated for the sole purpose of preserving potency. It does not "go bad", ever. hCG merely loses potency over time, and at a faster pace when placed at room temperature. 

hCG can be used for 90 days after reconstituting it. After 90 days, it loses approximately 10% potency per month. You can leave hCG at room temperature for about a week with negligible potency loss. No loss if it's in the early stages after mixing. After 90 days, you would simply increase dose to compensate for the 10% loss per month. So for those of you who travel, do not be afraid to take your hCG. No need to go through the extra measure of keeping it cool. 

The reason hCG generally does not arrive mixed, is because in some cases, it is frozen in powder form, which would preserve the compound for millions of years. This way you can thaw the powder and use it at your convenience. Some manufacturers ship premixed compounds, such as the HUCOG brand, which is extracted from pregnant rat urine. 

hCG is not as "fragile" as most of us are led to believe. If you prefer to minimize injections, you can combine your steroid compounds with hCG into the same syringe and inject. The only real way to destroy hCG is by freezing and thawing pre-loaded/premixed syringes, as the ice crystals tend to destroy the proteins. If you decide to freeze your mixed hCG, be sure not to re-freeze it, ever. 

The expiration dates are merely the length of time the potency was tested. This is also used/marketed so that you purchase more of this compound.

----------


## smile

> No. Start week one. the 2 months I mentioned was really just to show that the 30 day rule is nonsense. It never goes bad. It just loses 10% potency per month after about the 3rd or 4th month. So you can use it for as long as you have it. Just draw 10% more after the 3rd month.


Thank you for answering !  :Smilie:

----------


## SeXc1985

Another good read , thanks!  :Party Smiley TAP:

----------


## lovbyts

Just in case I did not say it before. NICE post. Very clear and to the point.

Thanks

----------


## godzillaaaaa

Not sure if this question was answered, a few pages to read  :Wink: 

So you recommend adding 5cc of the solution to the hcg . Would it hurt only adding 1cc to it so im only injecting 0.1cc per 500iu of hcg? Seem to see a few hcg's come with only 1ml of solution.

----------


## Mr.diss3ct

How take HCG when i am on TRT with Nebido 1000mg every 10 weeks? thnx

----------


## austinite

> Not sure if this question was answered, a few pages to read 
> 
> So you recommend adding 5cc of the solution to the hcg. Would it hurt only adding 1cc to it so im only injecting 0.1cc per 500iu of hcg? Seem to see a few hcg's come with only 1ml of solution.


 .5 cc for subQ injections only. if injecting IM do more if you want. 




> How take HCG when i am on TRT with Nebido 1000mg every 10 weeks? thnx


Check out the TRT forums. Lots of useful information there. This thread if for cycling purposes, not HRT doses.

----------


## e1ectric

THANK you

----------


## CaptainDwamn

Great post!

----------


## ChrisG217

Man I really wish I knew about this before I did my first cycle. My question, is their any way to gauge the damage from not using hCG even if I only did 1 cycle?

----------


## austinite

> Man I really wish I knew about this before I did my first cycle. My question, is their any way to gauge the damage from not using hCG even if I only did 1 cycle?


If you have baseline blood work you can compare to post cycle blood work. Otherwise no.

----------


## kpham08

Great write up austinite thank you for taking your time to write this. Quick question for you, I know you mix your hCg with b12, is this bac water included also? Example 1 ml bac water and 1 ml b12?

----------


## Revelations

> Added the following segment to the original article....
> 
> *Let's Clear Up Some Confusion About Handling hCG*
> 
> hCG needs to be refrigerated for the sole purpose of preserving potency. It does not "go bad", ever. hCG merely loses potency over time, and at a faster pace when placed at room temperature. 
> 
> hCG can be used for 90 days after reconstituting it. After 90 days, it loses approximately 10% potency per month. You can leave hCG at room temperature for about a week with negligible potency loss. No loss if it's in the early stages after mixing. After 90 days, you would simply increase dose to compensate for the 10% loss per month. So for those of you who travel, do not be afraid to take your hCG. No need to go through the extra measure of keeping it cool. 
> 
> The reason hCG generally does not arrive mixed, is because in some cases, it is frozen in powder form, which would preserve the compound for millions of years. This way you can thaw the powder and use it at your convenience. Some manufacturers ship premixed compounds, such as the HUCOG brand, which is extracted from pregnant rat urine. 
> ...


What about in its raw form? I bought some 2yrs ago and its expires 2/14 but im not needing it for a few months. Will it go bad? Should I just reconstitution it and refrigerate it.

----------


## austinite

> What about in its raw form? I bought some 2yrs ago and its expires 2/14 but im not needing it for a few months. Will it go bad? Should I just reconstitution it and refrigerate it.


At room temp, powder should last several years. I don't have an exact figure for you. But you can freeze powder forever.

----------


## swaggypzero

Hey Austinite,
So I just read over this and I feel like I am screwed lol. I am currently on a cycle and this upcoming week is my last week. I have been on for 15 weeks and this coming injection will be my last. 
I ran the following
Weeks 1-6
Test E: 500 mg per week 

Kick-starters
Dbol : 40 mg a day (Weeks 1-4)
Test Prop: 100 mg EOD, (first 2.5 weeks) 

Weeks 6-10
Test E: 750 mg a week *noticed more bloating and not much increased strength so cut it back down to 500 after week 10.

Week 10-15
Test E: 500 mg a week

Arimidex -Weeks 1-12-0.5 mg EOD
12-15: 0.25 mg EOD (feel better with this dose)


I have run two cycles prior to this and I used HCG AFTER my last injection. The instructions were to hold off until 10 days after last Test E injection and blast it EOD. And to start clomid and nolvadex three weeks after the last injection. 
I followed this protocol twice and I was able to recover but I have never been on this long before and after reading your post, I am extremely worried.

What would you suggest would be the most beneficial thing to do for me? As mentioned, I do only have one more injection left BUT I am really worried about recovery now. Should I just wait the 10 days and try this protocol over again or no.

I read your post as a visitor, joined the forum and tried to PM you but it wouldnt allow me to do that. I figured I could post here and get a reply nonetheless. 

Anyways, thanks!

----------


## swaggypzero

Did I post this in the wrong section? Should I have created a new post within the PCT section? My apologies I am new on the site so I just figured I could add it to the thread itself.

----------


## austinite

> Did I post this in the wrong section? Should I have created a new post within the PCT section? My apologies I am new on the site so I just figured I could add it to the thread itself.


Post a new thread and include your stats. We cant help without stats.

----------


## HHC

> Post a new thread and include your stats. We cant help without stats.


Can you explain why someone like Rich Piana says that doing HCG while on cycle is one of the worst things you can do? Thanks.

----------


## austinite

> Can you explain why someone like Rich Piana says that doing HCG while on cycle is one of the worst things you can do? Thanks.


No, I can't. And neither can he. Ever hear anything from him followed up by a real explanation? Of course not, because he's a clueless clown. He just orders people to do this and that without any detail. 

That's why you and I both don't understand why he says whatever he spouts.

I've explained very clearly how and why to use hCG in this thread. I'd love to hear Pianas view. Not the junk posts he puts up on you tube. He is an embarrassment to the community as a whole.

----------


## HHC

> No, I can't. And neither can he. Ever hear anything from him followed up by a real explanation? Of course not, because he's a clueless clown. He just orders people to do this and that without any detail. 
> 
> That's why you and I both don't understand why he says whatever he spouts.


His explanation was that it sends mixed signals in the body. His claim is that when you're on T, you're shutting down your natural T, then you're injecting HCG and that is primarily for reactivating natural T, so it's conflicting signals. I was just wondering what you might have to say about it.

----------


## austinite

> His explanation was that it sends mixed signals in the body. His claim is that when you're on T, you're shutting down your natural T, then you're injecting HCG and that is primarily for reactivating natural T, so it's conflicting signals. I was just wondering what you might have to say about it.


What does Mixed signals mean? Can you explain please? I need to understand exactly what that means and how it negatively impacts our bodies.

----------


## HHC

> What does Mixed signals mean? Can you explain please? I need to understand exactly what that means and how it negatively impacts our bodies.


Well, I'm paraphrasing of course, from a video I saw of him speaking about HCG . But he did say conflicting, mixed signals and confusing the body in a way that shouldn't be seen as good. Using T and shutting down your natural T, then being on HCG at the same time which, he claimed, is used to turn T levels back to normal isn't a good thing at all. I'll try to find the link to it so I can relay what was said better.

----------


## austinite

> Well, I'm paraphrasing of course, from a video I saw of him speaking about HCG. But he did say conflicting, mixed signals and confusing the body in a way that shouldn't be seen as good. Using T and shutting down your natural T, then being on HCG at the same time which, he claimed, is used to turn T levels back to normal isn't a good thing at all. I'll try to find the link to it so I can relay what was said better.


I can't really have this discussion. No offense, HHC. But it doesn't make any sense. It's like saying you shouldn't drink orange juice because the color is orange. Does that make sense to you? Of course not. That's how I feel about someone saying "Mixed signals is bad". What are the mixed signals? There are no mixed signals. hCG does not prevent shut down. You're still shut down. Shut down happens at the pituitary before your leydig cells stop responding. That is still shut down. hCG does not produce LH. It mimics LH analog. 

Ask yourself something, HHC. Do you understand exactly what he is saying? Then ask yourself if there was anything that wasn't explained clearly in this thread.

This thread exists mostly because of idiots like rich.

----------


## HHC

> I can't really have this discussion. No offense, HHC. But it doesn't make any sense. It's like saying you shouldn't drink orange juice because the color is orange. Does that make sense to you? Of course not. That's how I feel about someone saying "Mixed signals is bad". What are the mixed signals? There are no mixed signals. hCG does not prevent shut down. You're still shut down. Shut down happens at the pituitary before your leydig cells stop responding. That is still shut down. hCG does not produce LH. It mimics LH analog. 
> 
> Ask yourself something, HHC. Do you understand exactly what he is saying? Then ask yourself if there was anything that wasn't explained clearly in this thread.
> 
> This thread exists mostly because of idiots like rich.


I respect your position and trust me, I do not believe him just because he's got some fame under his belt. I just found this interesting, ya know... Here is the link, skip to around 8:05, where he talks about HCG.

----------


## HHC

Oh, can't post links... all you gotta do is go to youtube and type rich piana on cycles, skip to around 8:05 and you'll see it in case you're interested.

----------


## austinite

> I respect your position and trust me, I do not believe him just because he's got some fame under his belt. I just found this interesting, ya know... Here is the link, skip to around 8:05, where he talks about HCG.


Ive seen the video. It makes no sense. No explanation, no detail. Nothing. 

Anyway, unless someone wants to give me details and exactly how it works, I am not interested. I took the time to explain for the betterment of education, I expect the same in return.

----------


## Tank123

awesome info austinite. very knowledgeable  :Smilie:

----------


## MODO

Just wanted to say thanks. I'm changing my HCG protocol from a shock before PCT to running it along side my test.

That being said, I have one more question. HCG will stimulate normal testosterone production, so if I took 250 IU e3.5d how much test production will I actually be stimulating? Is it enough to factor in to my weekly test injections?

Like let's say I take 500mg enanthate ... would the HCG stimulate enough test that I should be lowering the enanthate to 450 or 400 or whatever?

----------


## Black

Lazy man here. I read the original post, but didn't look through the rest. Is the best way to test HCG by squirting the hormone on a prenancy test?

----------


## austinite

> Just wanted to say thanks. I'm changing my HCG protocol from a shock before PCT to running it along side my test.
> 
> That being said, I have one more question. HCG will stimulate normal testosterone production, so if I took 250 IU e3.5d how much test production will I actually be stimulating? Is it enough to factor in to my weekly test injections?
> 
> Like let's say I take 500mg enanthate... would the HCG stimulate enough test that I should be lowering the enanthate to 450 or 400 or whatever?


Just use the least amount that keeps your gonads full and normal sized. No one can predict how much testosterone is produced. It doesn't matter anyway because you'd be shut down and you cannot separate natural testosterone from exogenous. 




> Lazy man here. I read the original post, but didn't look through the rest. Is the best way to test HCG by squirting the hormone on a prenancy test?


That and visually confirm that your gonads are normal sized.

----------


## WoodyX21

Austinite, 
If I was going to take sustanon and was injecting EOD, would it be ok to inject with the sust every 4 days as it is just more convenient? Excellent posts BTW.

----------


## austinite

> Austinite, 
> If I was going to take sustanon and was injecting EOD, would it be ok to inject with the sust every 4 days as it is just more convenient? Excellent posts BTW.


yes.

----------


## JoeC6Z51

My UGL that I have list's hCG under that "Orals" section. Do they come in pill form? I've never ordered it before. Waiting on a reply from the lab on his product.

----------


## austinite

> My UGL that I have list's hCG under that "Orals" section. Do they come in pill form? I've never ordered it before. Waiting on a reply from the lab on his product.


No, that is not hCG .

----------


## JoeC6Z51

Just got a reply from him. It's not in pill form as in "oral." It's injectable, but I have to dissolve it in BAC water. That's what I was hoping for.

----------


## splchamp

great info here !!

----------


## austinite

> great info here !!


Thanks. So how many decibels did the SPL champ hit?

----------


## xthedukex

Good read. Thanks !!

----------


## seriouslifter

so why does that mutant guy rich say HCG on cycle is pointless if you get the test from the injection. save it for PCT???

----------


## kelkel

> so why does that *mutant guy rich* say HCG on cycle is pointless if you get the test from the injection. save it for PCT???


Who's that?

----------


## austinite

> so why does that mutant guy rich say HCG on cycle is pointless if you get the test from the injection. save it for PCT???


Read the thread. Answered several times.

----------


## MODO

> so why does that mutant guy rich say HCG on cycle is pointless if you get the test from the injection. save it for PCT???


If you are accurately quoting him, then he has no clue what hcg does. Read the first page of this thread and then go explain it to him.

----------


## ChrisG217

question, i mixed it in a 10,000 iu bottle. so would it still be 25 on the slin pin for 250 iu"s?

----------


## austinite

> question, i mixed it in a 10,000 iu bottle. so would it still be 25 on the slin pin for 250 iu"s?


Mixed what? How much water did you put in a 10k bottle?

----------


## ChrisG217

> Mixed what? How much water did you put in a 10k bottle?


10 ml of bacteriostatic water

----------


## austinite

10,000 IU _divided by_ 10ml _equals_ 1000 IU per ml.

1,000 IU _divided by_ 100 units (number of units on a slin pin) _equals_ 10 IU per unit.

You want 250 IU, so 250 _divided by_ 10 _equals_ *25 units on a slin pin*.

----------


## ChrisG217

> 10,000 IU _divided by_ 10ml _equals_ 1000 IU per ml.
> 
> 1,000 IU _divided by_ 100 units (number of units on a slin pin) _equals_ 10 IU per unit.
> 
> You want 250 IU, so 250 _divided by_ 10 _equals_ *25 units on a slin pin*.


Yes!!! I was correct!

----------


## austinite

Added to original post....

*How the Math Works for Mixing hCG 
**
I'm adding this segment because it seems a lot of people still don't understand how to calculate their doses after mixing. Note that CC and ML are the same thing. So here is the math to prevent anymore questions about this...

A standard insulin syringe can hold 1 CC in volume. Each barrel will have markings in 1 unit increments up to 100. So each CC displays 100 unit markings.

Step 1: Amount of hCG units in a vial DIVIDED BY total CC's of solution added = Amount of hCG you will have per CC. 
Step 1 example: 10,000 / 10 = 1,000

Step 2: Amount of hCG per CC (result of step 1) DIVIDED BY 100 (number of units on a slin pin) = amount of hCG per unit.
Step 2 example: 1,000 / 100 = 10

Step 3: Amount desired per injection DIVIDED BY amount of hCG per unit (result of step 2) = Number of units to draw from your mixed vial.
Step 3 example: 250 IU / 10 = 25 units. You would draw 25 units, or a quarter of a CC on a slin pin.

Hope that clears it up.
*

----------


## ChrisG217

I use slin pins that go up to a half cc. Doesn't matter though, 25=250 iu

----------


## austinite

just use the math I just provided.

----------


## Alinjr

Good post

----------


## bansheeman

Can you recover from Leydig cell desensitization? What is the treatment for it? I realize HRT will treat it but can it cure it?

----------


## austinite

> Can you recover from Leydig cell desensitization? What is the treatment for it? I realize HRT will treat it but can it cure it?


HRT (T therapy), does not treat desensitization. Where did you get that idea? The opposite, in fact. Your question is answered in the original article. 

Yes, it's possible to re-sensitize cells. With hCG or HMG. This is not guaranteed at all. (not even really close).

----------


## swaggypzero

Ok so since I was the one of the people who wasnt sure about this, I am going to put my understanding of what you explained to the test to ensure I now understand HCG mixing. 

Step 1: Amount of hCG units in a vial DIVIDED BY total CC's of solution added = Amount of hCG you will have per CC. 
*Step 1: My case 5000 units/2 CCs of solution added=2,500 (amount of hcg per CC)*

Step 2: Amount of hCG per CC (result of step 1) DIVIDED BY 100 (number of units on a slin pin) = amount of hCG per unit.
*Step 2: My case: 2,500 / 100 = 25*

Step 3: Amount desired per injection DIVIDED BY amount of hCG per unit (result of step 2) = Number of units to draw from your mixed vial.
*Step 3 My case: 250 IU / 25 = 10 units. So i would draw 10 units on my slin pin*. 

Is this correct? Did i mess up anywhere? 
Thanks!

----------


## austinite

Maybe someone can chime in for you. I can't do this.

----------


## MODO

> Ok so since I was the one of the people who wasnt sure about this, I am going to put my understanding of what you explained to the test to ensure I now understand HCG mixing. Step 1: Amount of hCG units in a vial DIVIDED BY total CC's of solution added = Amount of hCG you will have per CC. Step 1: My case 5000 units/2 CCs of solution added=2,500 (amount of hcg per CC) Step 2: Amount of hCG per CC (result of step 1) DIVIDED BY 100 (number of units on a slin pin) = amount of hCG per unit. Step 2: My case: 2,500 / 100 = 25 Step 3: Amount desired per injection DIVIDED BY amount of hCG per unit (result of step 2) = Number of units to draw from your mixed vial. Step 3 My case: 250 IU / 25 = 10 units. So i would draw 10 units on my slin pin. Is this correct? Did i mess up anywhere? Thanks!


If 100 slin pin markings = 1 cc, then yeah.

You were smart enough to figure out the formulas, you can double check your work too I'm sure!

----------


## swaggypzero

Awesome, yeah my 100 mark equals out to 1 cc/ml. I pretty much triple checked but just wanted to make sure i didnt make an error anywhere.

----------


## MODO

> Awesome, yeah my 100 mark equals out to 1 cc/ml. I pretty much triple checked but just wanted to make sure i didnt make an error anywhere.


I don't know if I would be mixing 5000 IU with only 2 CC though.

----------


## swaggypzero

> I don't know if I would be mixing 5000 IU with only 2 CC though.


Why's that? Something I should be looking out for?

----------


## DAAS

Cause Rich is a bro. 


> so why does that mutant guy rich say HCG on cycle is pointless if you get the test from the injection. save it for PCT???

----------


## MODO

> Cause Rich is a bro.


ha... PhD in Broscience for sure...

----------


## maverick68

As with all your posts.. Great job! Thank you.. its so difficult to weed through various threads to figure out whats right and whats wrong. I have read tons of postings and I get more and more confused everyday becuase one person will say something and another will say the complete opposite. You seem to be an extremely knowledgable member of this forum not just because of the number of posted you've written but by the depth and quality of information you post. Again, I say thank you. It has helped me learn so much. Keep up the great work!

----------


## db11

Can i use an empty 10ml test vile to mix my hCG

----------


## MODO

> Can i use an empty 10ml test vile to mix my hCG


Risk of infection if you re use stuff without sterilizing.

Also, residual test is not something you want in your hcg if you plan on running the hcg right up to pct start time.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

I agree with MODO, you can purchase sterile vials from the site sponsor. Sometimes hcg comes in ampules and you can pre load syringes or buy a STERILE VIAL.
Accessories

----------


## db11

Thanks for the help

----------


## CoolStroybro

Is HCG sub-Q shots painful ? I use slin pin to inject it around my navel. It really hurts my when I am pressing. Any tips ? Is it because air bubbles?

----------


## austinite

> Is HCG sub-Q shots painful ? I use slin pin to inject it around my navel. It really hurts my when I am pressing. Any tips ? Is it because air bubbles?


lessen the volume or inject elsewhere. Should be painless.

----------


## devil-1986

hi dear austinite ,i have a one question about hcg during cycle , i know timing doesn't matter but for example if i inject one dose of test in Saturday 8 am should i inject hct and test at the same time ? or take test at Saturday 8 am and hcg 8:30 am ? or take test at am and hcg at pm ? or maybe take test at Saturday 8 am and take hcg at Sunday 8 am ? what is the best plan that you suggesting ?

----------


## austinite

> hi dear austinite ,i have a one question about hcg during cycle , i know timing doesn't matter but for example if i inject one dose of test in Saturday 8 am should i inject hct and test at the same time ? or take test at Saturday 8 am and hcg 8:30 am ? or take test at am and hcg at pm ? or maybe take test at Saturday 8 am and take hcg at Sunday 8 am ? what is the best plan that you suggesting ?


Devil, it does not matter when you take hCG . Just be consistent.

----------


## deegee71

Austinite I have 10000 unit vial. Per direction says to mix 5ml of bac water. My needles are .5 ml/cc . so by your formula 10000 divided by 5ml back is 2000. 2000 divided by 100 units is 20. So 20 on my needles is 250 units of hcg ?

----------


## deegee71

The bac water vial has 10ml in it. Maybe I should just put the whole 10ml in the 10000 unit vial of hcg to make it easier and just do 25 on needle

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> The bac water vial has 10ml in it. Maybe I should just put the whole 10ml in the 10000 unit vial of hcg to make it easier and just do 25 on needle


If the vial will hold it you can. If instructions say to 5ml it may not hold it. Just go with HALF of dosage if you cut bad water in half, thats all there is to it.

----------


## swaggypzero

> I don't know if I would be mixing 5000 IU with only 2 CC though.


This question was missed, sorry I wanted to ask why mixing 5000 IU with 2 CCs could be bad?? Is it just in terms of the pain associated with injecting or something else?

Thanks

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> This question was missed, sorry I wanted to ask why mixing 5000 IU with 2 CCs could be bad?? Is it just in terms of the pain associated with injecting or something else?
> 
> Thanks


Seems like you're complicating this way more than necessary. 5000iu's of hcg powder. That equals 5cc bac water right. If you want to keep it simple and add less bac water, then you would add 2 and a half cc's bac water. Now your solution is DOUBLE POTENCY. So you cut your injection in half from the 25 mark and that gives you a potency of 250iu's hcg per injection. Your done! No need to create extra math for yourself.

----------


## swaggypzero

I wasn't asking for a calculation, I already figured my stuff out. Modo posted above (after I posted my finished calculation) that it was correct but that he wouldn't mix ONLY 2 CCs of water, so I was asking why. If you look at earlier posts on this page, you can see it. I am not complicating anything, just wanted to find out why he thought that. 

He posted this above
"I don't know if I would be mixing 5000 IU with only 2 CC though."

Thanks

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> I wasn't asking for a calculation, I already figured my stuff out. Modo posted above (after I posted my finished calculation) that it was correct but that he wouldn't mix ONLY 2 CCs of water, so I was asking why. If you look at earlier posts on this page, you can see it. I am not complicating anything, just wanted to find out why he thought that. 
> 
> He posted this above
> "I don't know if I would be mixing 5000 IU with only 2 CC though."
> 
> Thanks


Can't speak for anyone else, but i would just assume his thoughts are same as mine, as it makes the calculations more complicated. Just easier to cut in half.

----------


## Rellim

If you have 5mls of water and then dissolve it with 5000 IU's of hcg we now have a new volume of liquid that is no longer 5mls.

However we are dealing with such small amounts that the difference wont be enough to cause any harm, the difference would be negligible.

EDIT-After a rough calculation the difference in volume would be sooo tiny that this post should be ignored.

----------


## MODO

Hey austinite, 

I'm taking HCG 214 IU e3d (for a total of 500 IU/wk)... about half way done my cycle and noticing some testicular atrophy. Is this unavoidable? Or a sign that my HCG is too low?

Thanks

----------


## austinite

> Hey austinite, 
> 
> I'm taking HCG 214 IU e3d (for a total of 500 IU/wk)... about half way done my cycle and noticing some testicular atrophy. Is this unavoidable? Or a sign that my HCG is too low?
> 
> Thanks


Should not have atrophy on hCG. Increase dose. No more than 500iu at any given time.

----------


## Kirruha

Hi Austinite! Thank you for the info you are sharing!
I am running my first cycle based on your advises. 16.03 had a first shot of test cyp 250ME and since then had a feeling that something squeezes my balls ))) yesterday had a shot of 250 ME of HCG  at that moment it was like a relief  discomfort was gone and even today when I did second test cyp injection  nothing alike. 
Just wanted to ask  is there any timing protocol for test and HCG injections? Can I do both in a same day or should I separate shots?

----------


## EasyDoesIt

Many of the questions asked here have been answered repeatedly. This entire thread needs to be read through if you are new to reading it.
http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...ml#post6823601

----------


## Kirruha

Start using it from week 1. *Timing does not matter*, just spread it out. For cycling, 250 iu two to three times weekly will suffice. Do not use hCG back to back. 

missed that =)

----------


## Docd187123

> Start using it from week 1. *Timing does not matter*, just spread it out. For cycling, 250 iu two to three times weekly will suffice. Do not use hCG back to back. 
> 
> missed that =)


Timing does matter just not that much unless you're on TRT.

----------


## jude662

Thank you for this. I've been paranoid about storing hcg , after hearing all kinds of crap about it "going bad" at room temperature.

----------


## austinite

> Timing does matter just not that much unless you're on TRT.


When I speak of timing, I am referring to timing hCG with respect to Testosterone . That absolutely, 100% does not matter on cycle (literally, zero relevance). You can inject both the same days without any issues whatsoever.  :Smilie: 

If you're referring to timing between injections, then yes, should be approximately even apart. Obviously you don't want to inject 3 days in a row and then not for 4 days.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

On a side note.... you're a slut. And so is kelkel.

----------


## Docd187123

> When I speak of timing, I am referring to timing hCG with respect to Testosterone . That absolutely, 100% does not matter on cycle (literally, zero relevance). You can inject both the same days without any issues whatsoever. 
> 
> If you're referring to timing between injections, then yes, should be approximately even apart. Obviously you don't want to inject 3 days in a row and then not for 4 days. 
> 
> On a side note.... you're a slut. And so is kelkel.


On a diagonally backwards inside out note...I'm content being one  :Big Grin:

----------


## MR10X

The size of your balls is not an indicator of whether they are producing testosterone .Only about 3% of your balls produce testosterone the rest of it produces sperm. the outer layer is the cells that produce testosterone.

----------


## Elijah V

So what if you live in Australia? Is it still worth cycling with the absence of HCG ? Getting HCG here isn't the same as walking into a clinic in America unfortunately. It's very close to impossible getting your hands on HCG. Are there any Australians on this board who use HCG in their protocol?

----------


## kronik420

> So what if you live in Australia? Is it still worth cycling with the absence of HCG? Getting HCG here isn't the same as walking into a clinic in America unfortunately. It's very close to impossible getting your hands on HCG. Are there any Australians on this board who use HCG in their protocol?


Hcg is hard to find yes.. but not impossible..

----------


## JuiceBox7

Great read!

----------


## NoBulkNoCutJustGrow

Great read Austinite thanks for the info. Got a quick question when you can; I need to take a maintenance dose of Tamoxifen at 10mg a day to prevent any onset gyno which I've been prone to before during cycle. Would this combination of Tamoxifen and HCG cause an over-stimulation of the leydig cells even at just 10mg a day and 500 iu/week respectively? Or would these compounds still be functional and beneficial in synergy? Thanks again for the info and the help.

----------


## austinite

double post.

----------


## austinite

> Great read Austinite thanks for the info. Got a quick question when you can; I need to take a maintenance dose of Tamoxifen at 10mg a day to prevent any onset gyno which I've been prone to before during cycle. Would this combination of Tamoxifen and HCG cause an over-stimulation of the leydig cells even at just 10mg a day and 500 iu/week respectively? Or would these compounds still be functional and beneficial in synergy? Thanks again for the info and the help.


Tamoxifen has nothing to do with Leydig cells. Tamoxifen works in the head to restart your hypothalamus and pituitary so that LH and FSH are produced. LH then stimulates leydig cells, but it's natural production, not LH analog which is mimicked by hCG and bypasses pituitary. 

The answer to your question is No. 

Synergy? No. They should not be used simultaneously. Tamoxifen trys to restart and hCG is suppressive. Counter-productivity at its finest.

----------


## NoBulkNoCutJustGrow

> Tamoxifen has nothing to do with Leydig cells. Tamoxifen works in the head to restart your hypothalamus and pituitary so that LH and FSH are produced. LH then stimulates leydig cells, but it's natural production, not LH analog which is mimicked by hCG and bypasses pituitary. 
> 
> The answer to your question is No. 
> 
> Synergy? No. They should not be used simultaneously. Tamoxifen trys to restart and hCG is suppressive. Counter-productivity at its finest.


Ahh now I see things more clearly in regards to the actions of Tamoxifen. Although you say it's counter productive but wouldn't we want our pituitary to be stimulated throughout the cycle so when it comes to PCT the recovery would be faster? Even though we're introducing analog LH wouldn't it be beneficial to keep the pituitary and the Hypothalamus active in that regard? 

I say that because I've been reading and finding conflicting info regarding this. For example:




> Tamoxifen Blocks HCG Induced Leydig Cell Desensitization
> HCG induced testicular desensitization seems to be a hot topic. There are a number of studies showing that concomitant use of Nolvadex ameliorates this. The first abstract suggests that HCG at least partially blocks the conversion of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP), a testosterone precursor, to testosterone. This effect is suppressed by Nolvadex.
> 
> The second abstract seems to indicate that estrogen may not be the only culprit, since Nolvadex plus HCG does not increase T levels any more than HCG alone, even though the combination reduces desensitization.
> 
> Since we are trying to avoid this desensitization so when we quit the HCG our testes respond to our endogenous LH, it makes sense to always use nolvadex with HCG to at least help the problem, if not solve it completely.
> 
> 
> J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1980 Nov;51(5):1026-9
> ...


It also appears that a low dose of Tamoxifen might help with any desensitization that might occur which is something we definitely do not want. 

Any thoughts?

----------


## austinite

^ No. Tamox will not impact leydig cells the way hCG does. 

And no, you don't want pituitary "stimulated" on cycle, testosterone or whatever steroid you're taking is shutting it down hard. Makes no sense really.

There's a million and one studies, many of which are easily debunked. Not everyone has to agree, but I can tell you that I don't know many people that dove into this topic as much as I have, and researched and tested most material as much as I have. This article is not just a "Collection" of crap from the net like every other article online, its tried and true. 

Your job is to use whatever info you can to make an informed decision.

----------


## Currupted

Ausitine, 

Beautiful post .. loved the info and comments ive gone through the whole thing ... im dealing with a hard issue and need your advice. 

Im currently on a sust/mast cycle and need to introduce HCG twice a week at 250IU ( Saturday / Wednesday ) my problem is I cant get any bac water in this part of the world ... and the HCG is sold in a 1ML vial with a 1ML solution which is 5000IU

and that's basically the only thing I can get that is pharma grade and direct from pharmacy ... no one here has bac water and if you ask for it they look at you like your asking for something impossible.. they don't sell empty sterile vials either. 

so what I was thinking is I would buy 3 packs so I will have the 3ML of bac water. mix 1ML wth the powder and put it into a 5ML syringe ... then draw a additional 1.5ML water from the other 2 packs I got and throw away their powder. 

so ill end up with 2.5ML of liquid that I can use a slin syringe to draw from the original 5ML syringe that im storing the solution in. ( is this fine ? ) using a syringe to store the HCG? I really don't have many other options. 

So ill end up drawing .125cc on a slin pin to get my 250IU twice a week. 

sound good? or have other suggestions ?

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Ausitine, 
> 
> Beautiful post .. loved the info and comments ive gone through the whole thing ... im dealing with a hard issue and need your advice. 
> 
> Im currently on a sust/mast cycle and need to introduce HCG twice a week at 250IU ( Saturday / Wednesday ) my problem is I cant get any bac water in this part of the world ... and the HCG is sold in a 1ML vial with a 1ML solution which is 5000IU
> 
> and that's basically the only thing I can get that is pharma grade and direct from pharmacy ... no one here has bac water and if you ask for it they look at you like your asking for something impossible.. they don't sell empty sterile vials either. 
> 
> so what I was thinking is I would buy 3 packs so I will have the 3ML of bac water. mix 1ML wth the powder and put it into a 5ML syringe ... then draw a additional 1.5ML water from the other 2 packs I got and throw away their powder. 
> ...


Not to answer for Austinite, but in case you get anxious and start the process, most hcg i have bought is not accompanied with bac water, its sodium chloride or purified water and that lasts only a couple days, so check the label before you do anything. HCG can be stored in syringes, but not all of it in one if you were planning on refrigerating and re using? You would need to load each syringe and refrigerate them. I would have a strong suspicion your hcg came with sodium chloride.

----------


## austinite

^ right on, EDI. 

You could always use injectable B12 or make your own BAC water. Super easy.

----------


## Currupted

ok so I can walk in a pharmacy and get injectable B12 ... they also come in 1ML amps >.>

ill check the amp in my pregnyl when I get back ... but most likely its going to be what you said .. sodium chloride

you said I can make my own bac water? this worries me ... I wouldn't even trust eating eggs if I made them .. never mind making my own injectable substance. id be worried like hell about this.. but you wanna explain t anyway?  :Smilie:

----------


## austinite

> ok so I can walk in a pharmacy and get injectable B12 ... they also come in 1ML amps >.>
> 
> ill check the amp in my pregnyl when I get back ... but most likely its going to be what you said .. sodium chloride
> 
> you said I can make my own bac water? this worries me ... I wouldn't even trust eating eggs if I made them .. never mind making my own injectable substance. id be worried like hell about this.. but you wanna explain t anyway?


No not really. There are many threads on making BAC water. Hit the search button my friend.

----------


## Currupted

Done. Thanks anyway

----------


## acetrentura

This should really be a sticky.

----------


## babarrr

Benefits of hCG during your cycle:

1. Prevention of testicular atrophy.
-- This is done by mimicking LH and restarting natural testosterone production in the testes.


Austinite, you are saying that use HCG during your cycle to avoid atrophy. That means on one side we are shrinking the testes by injecting AAS and then avoiding shrinkage by HCG. Will it not confuse the hell out of our body?

----------


## austinite

> Benefits of hCG during your cycle:
> 
> 1. Prevention of testicular atrophy.
> -- This is done by mimicking LH and restarting natural testosterone production in the testes.
> 
> 
> Austinite, you are saying that use HCG during your cycle to avoid atrophy. That means on one side we are shrinking the testes by injecting AAS and then avoiding shrinkage by HCG. Will it not confuse the hell out of our body?


No. Your hypothalamus and pituitary are shut down regardless. hCG mimics LH analog, it's not secreting LH at the pituitary.

Give this a read when you have time: http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...ffect-you.html

----------


## babarrr

Thanks for a quick reply. 
I am just wondering if i use HCG 10 days after my Test E last shot for 10 consecutive days. Do you think i can bring LH to a requied level as if i were using it during the cycle? i have read some articles in this forums that suggest to use HCG 500iu-1000iu ED for 10 days. Comparing this dose to suggested by you, this seems way too high?

----------


## austinite

As stated in the article, I do not recommend hCG post cycle. It will do nothing for bringing LH back. SERMs bring LH back, hCG is suppressive. On cycle only.

----------


## babarrr

Makes sense. Just a final curiosity, can we use Test-E shot, HCG shot and AI the same day?

----------


## austinite

> Makes sense. Just a final curiosity, can we use Test-E shot, HCG shot and AI the same day?


Yes. You can inject Test and hCG together.

----------


## babarrr

Great Post and helpful answers. Thanks a lot again.

----------


## hackskii

If hCG is not used during cycle, then it absolutely can be used with good success post cycle.

Sure hCG will inhibit LH, but that can be brought back in weeks time with clomid.
Clomid at 100mg ED for 5 to 7 days doubles LH function and can increase FSH by 20% to 50%.
Not to mention of a SERM is taken during hCG therapy FSH will come back within range prior to stopping hCG.

Using a SERM instead of hCG post cycle can add months to the mix of recovery.
Testicular function takes many times longer to achieve than pituitary function.
Bring the nuts back first, then use SERMS you will recover faster.

----------


## BulkCity

IF using nolvadex while on cycle is HCG still necessary?
Nolva promotes the production of natural test.. therefore combating against testicular shrinkage..
Using nolva for 2 weeks post cycle would that be enough for PCT?

----------


## austinite

> If hCG is not used during cycle, then it absolutely can be used with good success post cycle.
> 
> Sure hCG will inhibit LH, but that can be brought back in weeks time with clomid.
> Clomid at 100mg ED for 5 to 7 days doubles LH function and can increase FSH by 20% to 50%.
> Not to mention of a SERM is taken during hCG therapy FSH will come back within range prior to stopping hCG.
> 
> Using a SERM instead of hCG post cycle can add months to the mix of recovery.
> Testicular function takes many times longer to achieve than pituitary function.
> Bring the nuts back first, then use SERMS you will recover faster.


Not true at all. You are not thinking of steroid abuse , which is what we all do here. Your info is ancient and should be updated. I don't think you understand how any of this works. Check the HPTA explanation thread to understand further.

----------


## hackskii

> Not true at all. You are not thinking of steroid abuse, which is what we all do here. Your info is ancient and should be updated. I don't think you understand how any of this works. Check the HPTA explanation thread to understand further.


Really?
I have been posting on this subject for 10 years, I clearly grasp the concept.

Just for clarity sake let me ask you some questions.

Are you saying post cycle that a SERM will recover the testicular axis as fast as hCG ?
I mean for testicular function you are alluding to a SERM working as fast and as good as hCG is this correct?

How long does it take using a SERM to get testicular funciton if one is shut down?

How long does the pituitary take to fire up using a SERM when shut down?

Please feel free to go into as much detail as you can, you wont lose me along the way.

----------


## austinite

> Really?
> I have been posting on this subject for 10 years, I clearly grasp the concept.
> 
> Just for clarity sake let me ask you some questions.
> 
> Are you saying post cycle that a SERM will recover the testicular axis as fast as hCG ?
> I mean for testicular function you are alluding to a SERM working as fast and as good as hCG is this correct?
> 
> How long does it take using a SERM to get testicular funciton if one is shut down?
> ...


I already went into detail. Read threads that I've posted. I have no issue if you want to disagree, but maybe start a new thread to educate people rather than making up 10 year old info in this thread, where a tremendous amount of educated members and physicians in the field have endorsed. It's really not rocket science, your info was accurate once, but no longer true. We've developed since then with more info. So it really doesn't matter how long you've been "posting" about this. I've worked with several qualified urologists, this isn't your usual random article. 

To answer your questions, 

hCG DOES NOT recover HPTA faster. In fact, it will cause more harm than good at doses that would make a difference. This is why we use it on cycle, not post cycle. 

We use a SERM post cycle because now all we have to recover is your hypothalamus and pituitary, we've already maintain the leydig cells. No need for hCG once again. 

Let me get my crystal ball and check how long it takes to recover..... well, it says everyone is different, and no matter the method, there are no guarantees. However, there are more recent clinical studies indicative of SERM therapy as a positive and most impactful method. Many of which were shut down for many years. SERM therapy is and until something better comes along, the gold standard among educated and up to date physicians. Emphasis on "Up to date". 

Let me gram the crystal ball again... Well, once again, everyone is different and it also says that everyones' cycles are different, even the length of shutdown varies it seems. So with that, the question is rendered useless. 

Feel free to take the time to educate everyone with a new thread so that we can learn your methods. (Unless you just want to object in this thread), in which case I'm really not interested. Not because I don't enjoy a good debate, as I've answered tons of legible questions in many threads, but because your questions are fruitless. They make no sense. This is similar to asking "How much water will spill from the pool if someone jumps in?" Well, no one knows, questions is too broad. 

The point of this thread is, whether you agree or not, is that everything leading up to hCG mono-therapy is known as garbage today. Regardless of how it worked in the past, it still had a fairly poor record. However, SERM therapy is proven superior with more recent studies. 

Have a powerful day.

----------


## hackskii

There is a growing interest and treatment for Anabolic Steroid Induced Hypogonadism (AISH)
Now this is going to come as a surprise but the treatments is hCG , and SERM therapy.
Dr. John Christler (AKA Swale) TRT doctor, Dr. Michael Scally both use hCG, and SERMS, so the methods are not outdated you have a strong opinion and a closed mind.

hCG directly stimulates leydig cells to produce tesotsterone.
Lets do some math here.
With no intervention LH function can come back fairly quick, but testicular function very slow.
Looking at the chart above it is far slower to recover testosterone even when LH gets to normal range.

I always suggest hCG during, that was never part of the debate, but some guys are on for a very long time and use no hCG.
With no intervention it can take up to a year (seen this first hand with my brother) as verified by blood results.

Clomid works by making GnRH more sensitive at the pituitary, but also comes with a price if ran for too long or too high.
Clomid at 100mg ED for 5 to 7 days doubles LH output and can increase FSH by 20% to 50%, this is well known.
But, when LH levels are low, doubling that is still not that big of deal.

hCG directly stimulates leydig cells within 2 hours of shooting that.
This direct stimulation takes weeks, even months out of the equation for waiting for LH to come up to speed with SERMS.

If LH function comes back faster than testicular function, why put the SERM in front of hCG when testicular function is the biggest hurdle in the equation for recovery?
Lets not even mention the ocular toxicity of clomid over time either, and clomids ability to make men not so manly....lol

I came to this thread from a link on a debate.
hCG should be used during, I totally 100% agree, but for those that have no testicular function from being on cycle, and no hCG, one would be a fool to not use it.
Within weeks (as verified myself with bloods) testosterone levels can be within range using hCG, and with a SERM, one may have high LH, but low testosterone , as testicular function takes some time.

Its funny how you suggested hCG therapy is outdated when docs that deal with men use it to this very day.
In fact, in light of what was suggested I have yet to find one doc that does it the way you suggest.
I pretty much came here to correct the misinformation.

Have a nice day.

----------


## austinite

lol. First of all, I never said hCG therapy is outdated. YOUR particular method is, aka mono-therapy. I'm sure you're on the same boat with shooting 1000's of IU's at once. Silly at best. Again, you need to stay up to date, there aren't very many docs that are up to date, which is why it's difficult to find a reputable doc today. 

Just stay up to date, that's all I ask. If your 10 year old info is good enough for you, great. Enjoy your method. I don't recommend it, at all. And neither does the 2 lead urologists in Houston, and neither did the majority of the informed physicians at ENDO 2012 and ENDO 2013. Look up the seminars.

Your info is old and outdated, and because the majority are clueless to today's methods, you remain brainwashed with old-school methods. Next thing you're going to tell me "Tapering off steroids is good enough" like we did in the 90's. 

Seriously, Kiddo. Do some real research and speak to qualified folks, I promise you'll see the good in SERM therapy one day.  :Smilie: 

Again, I invite you to start a thread with your methods.

----------


## hackskii

Using SERMS to jump start the testicles when testicular failure is in play is like using a VW engine on a Ferrari, it will work but not very well, in fact it can take months for that to work.
I have tons of data on this one, bloods too.

hCG with the use of SERMS can allow full testicular function (T levels) as verified by bloods within weeks, not months.
In fact even FSH will be within range when SERMS are used with hCG, just not LH.
Yes, LH will fall with the use of hCG, but only LH, and that will be brought back with the use of SERMS pretty quick.

A guy that was totally shutdown can be restored in as little as 6 weeks time with no hCG used during the cycle.
SERMS, well probably months time.
Why should a guy suffer quality of life issues for months when he can do it in weeks?

Saying SERM therapy with total dysfunction of the HPTA is as good as hCG and SERMS is just not true.

Like I said, ASIH is now known in the medical community, and SERM therapy is not the treatment alone, not sure where you get that, but if you like I can post that information.
You are the only one that suggests this, and your position you are standing on is not very solid.

Endo doctors use the hCG stimulation test to diagnose primary hypogonadism, and guess what kiddo, it is more than 1000iu injection.
Nothing wrong with the bigger doses, but it would be a good idea to have some nolva on hand to protect leydig cells.
And the whole desensitization thing is a myth as well.

With fully functional testicles 250iu hCG EOD produces 93% of intra-testicular testosterone (ITT) on cycle.
With nuts that are not accepting LH due to atrophy/nonfunction it would require a higher dose.

Recovery from hCG with a SERM is pretty damn quick.

----------


## austinite

You have a short attention span, hacksii, but thanks for your input. I have plenty of articles around here for your reference. You and I will just agree to disagree. I have zero desire to be repetitive as I've debated this with sworder and many others from those junk boards you might be attending. You're inexperienced in my opinion, that is all. Nothing wrong with that, the majority are.

----------


## hackskii

Thanks for that.
I have been training for 38 years, and have used steroids off and on for 32 years, as well as a mod on the biggest board in the UK for 10 years.

I like your passion for your position, but just saying its old and outdated with nothing more than an opinion not using any logic to support your position is a weak position to stand on.

For guys that have a very hard time recovering I suggest using hMG, along with hCG .
Tell me that is old news...lol

I understand the use of SERMS, and why they are used, but using a SERM to achieve testicular function once shut down is the long road, as you suggest it may be an old road, but is the fastest road to recovery.

Just so you know, some TRT doctors do in fact use hCG along with their TRT, and they do not use a SERM.
John Christler is a pioneer in the TRT field, and for his recovery on guys he does use hCG as well.

Using 2 urologists that no doubt know diddly squat about restoration of the HPTA as your defense is weak.

Tell me how a SERM will offer a faster approach to testicular atrophy recovery than hCG?
You cant, and if you could, you would have already.
Nice emotional position devoid of logic.

You cant debate testicular atrophy against hCG, not unless you are making something up.

----------


## austinite

> Thanks for that.
> I have been training for 38 years, and have used steroids off and on for 32 years, as well as a mod on the biggest board in the UK for 10 years.
> 
> I like your passion for your position, but just saying its old and outdated with nothing more than an opinion not using any logic to support your position is a weak position to stand on.
> 
> For guys that have a very hard time recovering I suggest using hMG, along with hCG .
> Tell me that is old news...lol
> 
> I understand the use of SERMS, and why they are used, but using a SERM to achieve testicular function once shut down is the long road, as you suggest it may be an old road, but is the fastest road to recovery.
> ...


Again, you're not listening and you want me to be repetitive. I in fact, recommend hCG with TRT. It would be STUPID to use a SERM alongside TRT. What's the point? You're on TRT!

This is becoming circus like. Seriously, read my threads and stop clowning around, I'm not going to repeat myself. Your attention span is shorter than anyone could fathom. Try reading before posting. Christler? He and I share the same views on this. He in fact is ANTI blasting hCG to prevent ITE.

Come back when you actually study up on the topic or when you decide to man up and start a thread. Until then, you can have the last word on this. Our members are much smarter than you think, so your garbage that you copied from a Doctor that isn't even legally allowed to practice (I know where you're copying your junk from) is no good here, sorry Charlie.

----------


## clarky.

Aust pm sent mate.

----------


## hackskii

Well, your 250iu twice a week is too light on hCG to keep testicular function during a cycle.

Your suggestion of desensitization with hCG is not true.

You put nothing in your defense for your position.

Id say you read up on this, I am fully aware of what John does, I talk to him from time to time on Facebook.

You read up on things, I can say with a good certainty you have just a little grasp of this subject, you just write in a fashion that appears to be true, yet you really lack the knowledge of what you talk about.

And FYI, ITE is no issue with nolva in the mix, yes that is right, read up on that one yourself.

So, I see numerous things wrong with your post, I challenge you, you say nothing in return other than its old, your attention span is short, but that is cool, you cant even defend your post other than read your other posts.
Why the hell would I read your other posts when your posts are riddled with opinion and lack the truth?

You sound like an armchair guru that talks shit.
Do you even lift?

Anyone reading this, this dude is looped.
HRT specialist?
Hell, pretty creative username, that is very deceptive considering you are full of shit.

Been following swale for 10 years, and he does in fact use hCG when guys are shut down, just not the dose others use, but I am fully aware of his frequency, and his dosing schedules.
He still uses it.

Man, the bullshit you spew is a freaking joke.

----------


## austinite

And back on topic...

----------


## kelkel

So Hackskii, you have 51 posts in 7 years. Obviously you reside on other forums. 
Did you only come here to pick a fight? Or is anyone with a different opinion than you always wrong? How's that working out for you?
I'll pose the question to you. Do you even lift as I see no evidence of it?
If you don't like it here you're free to leave.

----------


## marcus300

> Well, your 250iu twice a week is too light on hCG to keep testicular function during a cycle.
> 
> Your suggestion of desensitization with hCG is not true.
> 
> You put nothing in your defense for your position.
> 
> Id say you read up on this, I am fully aware of what John does, I talk to him from time to time on Facebook.
> 
> You read up on things, I can say with a good certainty you have just a little grasp of this subject, you just write in a fashion that appears to be true, yet you really lack the knowledge of what you talk about.
> ...



Anymore personal attacks and you will be banned, take the warning and pull your neck in

----------


## EasyDoesIt

*@**hackskii*: I have been reading the recent posts and have never come across anything you posted in the past. You make a comment like this *"**Anyone reading this, this dude is looped."* to a highly respected MONITOR who dedicates a lot of time and effort to helping others here. This shows your lack of respect and poor use of language. I would guess your self proclaimed expert in PCT is due to finding the answer to your own issues which by your posted protocols is still not working. If this is how you post on another forum you may want to go back their if you are still allowed. I can tell you that no one here is interested in your comments, nor does Austinite need to defend himself or waste time on deaf ears. Have a nice day...

----------


## hackskii

Sorry for my rude, and personal attacks.
I have no ax to grind here guys, I stepped out of line and I apologize for that.

Sorry again for my UN-professional behavior, it wont happen again.

----------


## hackskii

Oh, and Marcus can you delete some of your messages?
Your PM box is full.

----------


## clarky.

Lol pm Aust

----------


## austinite

> Lol pm Aust


Got it, buddy. Thank you  :Smilie:

----------


## austinite

> Sorry for my rude, and personal attacks.
> I have no ax to grind here guys, I stepped out of line and I apologize for that.
> 
> Sorry again for my UN-professional behavior, it wont happen again.


No problem.  :Smilie:  Thank you.

----------


## SMYL_GR8

As a doctor myself, I find it funny to see someone accuse someone else of spewing opinion that's not based on any facts and also claiming "I have plenty of articles to support this".... and then doesn't.

Hack, I assume you spend a lot of time on boards so you should know there's no need to say "I have plenty of articles I could post".........JUST POST THEM. If you feel Aust requires reeducation, then offer actual evidence based lit. Telling someone they're full of shit and standing on an island doesnt really help...........anything.

And kudos to Aust for answering the SAME questions over and over and over. I read the whole thread and even I got frustrated. You are far nicer than me.

----------


## z06vett

Got a question for ya, If I'm using a longer ester (test e, test c) do i start the Hcg on day one of the cycle. Or should i wait a week or so, once its running through the body?

----------


## austinite

> Got a question for ya, If I'm using a longer ester (test e, test c) do i start the Hcg on day one of the cycle. Or should i wait a week or so, once its running through the body?


I personally prefer starting from day one so that you gain stability from the start. However, a week or so later is not going to make a difference really.

ps. Exogenous Testosterone is flowing through your blood virtually immediately. It doesn't take a week.

----------


## z06vett

Thank you!

----------


## z06vett

> I personally prefer starting from day one so that you gain stability from the start. However, a week or so later is not going to make a difference really.
> 
> ps. Exogenous Testosterone is flowing through your blood virtually immediately. It doesn't take a week.


Completely forgot to ask you how should it be dosed. If i plan on a 12-15 wk cycle of test. Was informed 250 2 times a week?

----------


## austinite

that's plenty.

----------


## Toosje

Thanks for your article. Shed much light for me on the topic. Just to get this confirmed: leaving HCG at room temperature would only induce a potency loss of 10% per month?

Reason asking is because this is contrary to all the stories and tales I've heard at my gym

----------


## austinite

> Thanks for your article. Shed much light for me on the topic. Just to get this confirmed: leaving HCG at room temperature would only induce a potency loss of 10% per month?
> 
> Reason asking is because this is contrary to all the stories and tales I've heard at my gym


No. Where did you get that? I never said that.

----------


## Muscle Memory

@Austinite: Thanks for posting this.

@Anybody: So I really want to include hCG in my cycle but its pricey from my source so I may have to get it later on. I was wondering if its 'ok' for me to get it later during my cycle and begin using it up till the start of my PCT.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

What would later be? 
Doing it correctly would be at the start. If you read through this article and thread completely it would be invaluable to you and you may find this question answered and many that would educate you better on the process. Scroll up this page a little and look for your answer. HCG is an important part of your cycle and could save you a lot of problems that may arise during and after cycle. Good Luck!

----------


## austinite

> @Austinite: Thanks for posting this.
> 
> @Anybody: So I really want to include hCG in my cycle but its pricey from my source so I may have to get it later on. I was wondering if its 'ok' for me to get it later during my cycle and begin using it up till the start of my PCT.


No. Not if you want to follow my protocol. Please read the article in its entirety as EasyDoesIt mentioned above.

----------


## Muscle Memory

@EasyDoestIt: Later would mean about 2-3 weeks into the cycle.

I completely reread the article and still didn't see anything strongly urging not to take hCG a little later on if you don't have it at the start. However, I do understand the importance of maintaining it for your whole cycle as this works best and is what its intended for. Honestly I guess my wallet is going to have to take a hit for this one... My ease of recovery is important to me as is keeping my testes from atrophying. I'm going to get 3 vials of hcg 2000iu and 3 vials of solvent, all pharmacy grade. That should be just enough for 12 weeks. I'll revisit this article when it comes time for me to mix some. Thanks again.

----------


## kelkel

> I'm going to get 3 vials of hcg 2000iu and *3 vials of solvent*, all pharmacy grade.


Solvent?

----------


## EasyDoesIt

@musclememory Scroll up the page to post 257, that is your answer.

----------


## NACH3

Austinite, thank you and much appreciated... I was confused about it already being mixed... I got some really bad info!!! To say the least! I didn't get that it had to be mixed yourself ... Thank you so much for responding the way you did I very much appreciate it

----------


## NACH3

> Solvent?


I get it... The misunderstanding on my part is I was told by a igit they are always pre- mixed and austinite took me to school! Lol thank you for tryin to get what I was sayin earlier - that dang igit(idiot I know) told me all the wrong [email protected] Got it guys and gals, very much appreciated!!!

----------


## NACH3

Me too and I understood it right after I read it thanks a gain austinite!

----------


## NACH3

> And back on topic...


whoa what a f-in joke this guy was... Aust is nice enough to answer and re-answer constantly... Much respect aust

----------


## Muscle Memory

> Solvent?


Yes. 3 vials of freeze dried substance with 3 ampoules and solvent.




> @musclememory Scroll up the page to post 257, that is your answer.


Thanks buddy, makes sense.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Yes. 3 vials of freeze dried substance with 3 ampoules and solvent. Thanks buddy, makes sense.


Better make sure your "not referred to as"(solvent) is bacteriostatic water and not sodium chloride. I have yet to see bacteriostatic water come with hCG and unless you obtained it from a pharmacy which you still better check and make sure it's bacteriostatic water.

----------


## Muscle1988

Is there any downside to injecting HCG and test at the same time from the same syringe ?

----------


## austinite

> Is there any downside to injecting HCG and test at the same time from the same syringe ?


no..

----------


## Slayer of Souls

Do you guys ever mix the hcg in the bac stat vial it came in ?

----------


## Allegatormap

More good info thanks Austinite

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Do you guys ever mix the hcg in the bac stat vial it came in ?


Please read this thread. This question keeps coming up and it was just asked a few posts back. Most of the questions have been answered by Austinite many times over. The thread was placed here to give an explanation of of hcg and seems like many are reading the title but not taking advantage of the thread itself.

----------


## Unknownn

someone with a link for hcg PM me !!!!

----------


## mesophyte

> Myth # 1: hCG must be injected subcutaneously. (This is not true, IM injections work just as well. *SubQ is fine, but only matters if you're a TRT patient*)


Sorry, English is not my first language and I am not sure I understood the meaning of this part of your post. SubQ only matters to people on TRT? I am not on TRT, I am running a cycle with low dose test p as a base (approx 100mg per week) + oxandrolone (60mg per day pharma grade). Does it matter either way if I go for subcutaneous injection of HCG over intra-muscular? I'll probably just mix with the test and do IM but I'd like to understand this option.

Also, I've read the full thread and saw a lot of discussion around bacteriostatic water versus the solvent that comes with the hcg. I understand that bacteriostatic water is better as that was repeated a few times but I think I missed the reason why it is better.


Edit: Ok so I think I've found my answer:




> Before reconstitution: Do not store above 25°C. After reconstitution: Protect from light.
> Any product not used immediately after reconstitution should be stored refrigerated between + 2°C and + 8°C. Reconstituted product remaining 24 hours after preparation should be discarded.
> This product does not contain an antimicrobial preservative


The solvent is not antimicrobial and once reconstituted with the solvent, it cannot be preserved for more than 24 hours, so that is why bacteriostatic water is better, because it allows for longer storage periods of up to 2 months in the refrigerator?

Another question, "room temperature" where I live is easily above 25ºC and this product will be sent to me by mail. In transit while in powder form it will most definitely be exposed to temperatures above 25ºC, it is unavoidable here. Should I be concerned about this?

----------


## austinite

Before mixing just leave it in the freezer. It will save there forever. Please do not over-think this. 

^ meso, SubQ is recommended for low volume injections, such as 0.6ml or less. Otherwise, you risk the chance of the area becoming potentially swollen, hardened and sensitive to the touch. That's the only reason: Volume.

----------


## kelkel

> That's the only reason: Volume.


Hmmm. Mine never says a word.

----------


## austinite

> Hmmm. Mine never says a word.


Filthy staff member!

----------


## jsam

Newbie here doing research. So when you order HCG the powder already comes in a 500iu vile?

----------


## austinite

> Newbie here doing research. So when you order HCG the powder already comes in a 500iu vile?


No. It comes in different sizes. Not always a vial, sometimes pre mixed (rare, such as HUCOG), sometimes in ampules.

----------


## workoutho

Excellent post Austinite. Really translated into lay persons words. I appreciate the thorough description as well. Now my question is there something you can take other than clomid/nolva to jumpstart LH production? or even continue its production through gear use during a cycle? Thanks in advance!

----------


## austinite

> Excellent post Austinite. Really translated into lay persons words. I appreciate the thorough description as well. Now my question is there something you can take other than clomid/nolva to jumpstart LH production? or even continue its production through gear use during a cycle? Thanks in advance!


No. When you're shut down, you don't produce LH. There's nothing else I recommend.

----------


## unkownas

Hi Aust,
I have 5'ml of HC'G in bac water solution 1000 iu/ml 
This is not enough for a 12 week test only run.
Would it be okay to start the H'CG at the beginning of the 3rd week, or would it be better to only do a 10 week run.
What would you do? My guy is also out of H'CG for a few weeks and Im going away to work and staying in a camp so I cant get more... 
Thanks in advance

----------


## austinite

^ I prefer the first week as the article states. But the sooner you can, the better.

----------


## unkownas

> ^ I prefer the first week as the article states. But the sooner you can, the better.


I hear you and understand your reasoning, but would you do a 10 week and do it from day one or would you do a 12 week and start at week 3, thats what Im having trouble deciding. This will also be my first cycle.. 

Cheers!

----------


## austinite

10 weeks with hCG . 

Not sure why you're complicating things brother. Just get more gear. It's not the end of the world if you have to wait a little longer. Starting a few weeks in is not likely to do any damage. I just play it safe, always.

----------


## unkownas

Thanks man.. My guy is out of hCG so I have to make do with what I have this time around. Was just a bit concerned about starting late. Thanks for the reassurance.

----------


## timetravel

Been reading your posts, informative. I am currently on a hrt plan that includes a test cyponate 1 x per week at .6 iu, hgh at 4x per week 3 iu per dose, hcg at 2x per week 2 days before my test and again the day before at 2.5 iu per shot and oral anestrol .5 mg the day of test shot and another .5 anestrol 72 hours later, do I still need to off cycle my test and if so what is your recommendation, what if I dont off cycle at all?

----------


## austinite

> Been reading your posts, informative. I am currently on a hrt plan that includes a test cyponate 1 x per week at .6 iu, hgh at 4x per week 3 iu per dose, hcg at 2x per week 2 days before my test and again the day before at 2.5 iu per shot and oral anestrol .5 mg the day of test shot and another .5 anestrol 72 hours later, do I still need to off cycle my test and if so what is your recommendation, what if I dont off cycle at all?


I don't understand the question. If you're on TRT, you would stay on for the rest of your life.

----------


## Celt11

Austinite, is the main Post Cycle Therapy page going to be updated, as obviously it is outdated with the advice to start HCG *after* one's cycle (and also the advice that it is _optional_ rather than pretty damn important? 
From the 2nd to last paragraph on that page: "If you’re going to use hCG, you will begin hCG therapy 10 days after your last injection, complete it for 10 days and then begin SERM therapy." 
I take this to now be absolutely misleading.
Second question, if injecting IM, does it matter which muscle? I wonder because for SubQ you specify the area near the naval.
Thanks.

----------


## siamakdieded

Is hcg needed for a 6 week test prop cycle at 100m eod?

----------


## TrenKing

I have heard that the body starts to become immune to HCG after long-term use.

Someone told me that even after a month of use it starts to lose alot of its effectiveness. Is this true?

----------


## austinite

> I have heard that the body starts to become immune to HCG after long-term use.
> 
> Someone told me that even after a month of use it starts to lose alot of its effectiveness. Is this true?


False.

----------


## austinite

> Austinite, is the main Post Cycle Therapy page going to be updated, as obviously it is outdated with the advice to start HCG *after* one's cycle (and also the advice that it is _optional_ rather than pretty damn important? 
> From the 2nd to last paragraph on that page: "If you’re going to use hCG, you will begin hCG therapy 10 days after your last injection, complete it for 10 days and then begin SERM therapy." 
> I take this to now be absolutely misleading.
> Second question, if injecting IM, does it matter which muscle? I wonder because for SubQ you specify the area near the naval.
> Thanks.


You need to use your best judgement from reading articles as there will always be varying opinions. The post you referred to is outdated in my opinion. I have no control over that post.




> Is hcg needed for a 6 week test prop cycle at 100m eod?


Recommended, yes. Always, for any cycle. 6 weeks is not a short cycle. Especially with Prop.

----------


## Craze1

Great read. Need a sticky though

----------


## lovbyts

Well it is sort of. This post is connected by a link in one of the stickies above.
http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...-database.html

----------


## Craze1

Just saw that, Good enough.

----------


## ocman

Just to double check, you can do 20 injections at 250iu per injection with the above method?

If this is the case, then the hCG would stay good in the fridge for 2 1/2 months?

peace

----------


## Inked medic1

Hi Austinite

Another great thread filled with vital info. I'm new to cycles and have just ordered my first. After reading numerous articles and of course your post on test I have gone with the cycle you listed. I watched a vid today from Rich Piana who stated he used HCG post cycle. So came here to clarify and found your post, so HCG during cycle it is. 

Thanks again

Ink

----------


## austinite

> Hi Austinite
> 
> Another great thread filled with vital info. I'm new to cycles and have just ordered my first. After reading numerous articles and of course your post on test I have gone with the cycle you listed. I watched a vid today from Rich Piana who stated he used HCG post cycle. So came here to clarify and found your post, so HCG during cycle it is. 
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> Ink


http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-l...ml#post6660629

----------


## bifda

This might be a silly question, but why can't you just use hcg for the last few weeks of a cycle or the later half of the cycle?

----------


## bifda

Any more thoughts on the above question?

----------


## Seen12

Great post..Thanks a lot for being very helpful. You just gave me all the info I needed about HCG

----------


## austinite

> This might be a silly question, but why can't you just use hcg for the last few weeks of a cycle or the later half of the cycle?


Read the "Why you should use hCG ON cycle". The article in its entirety answers your question. You don't want to go too long without hCG because of everything mentioned in the article.

----------


## jolter604

i got 10,000 iu.but it came with a snap top and 2ml of liquid.i guess i need to pre-inject each syringe.and if i use them before 90 days they do not need to be cooled.what about eq and test e,should they be cooled?and i have various kids going into the fridge.

----------


## jolter604

and is it safe to take with aromison ?25mg.............

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> i got 10,000 iu.but it came with a snap top and 2ml of liquid.i guess i need to pre-inject each syringe.and if i use them before 90 days they do not need to be cooled.what about eq and test e,should they be cooled?and i have various kids going into the fridge.


Please read this entire thread to educate yourself. You do not want to wing it. The liquid that came with your HCG is probably purified water and that is not what you want to use. That water is only good for a few days. Need Bacteriostatic Water, but just to let you know, you cannot ask where you can obtain products on this forum, it is for educational purposes only. Randomely injecting hormones is not safe without complete understanding of what you need to do. There is more to some of the answers than yes or no and an understanding of what you are doing is a must. Read this! http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...rst-cycle.html
No do not refrigerate the oils, "test and EQ". Spend the time researching, you will feel more comfortable about the process. Good Luck!

----------


## bifda

so the water it comes with will not be good for long once mixed? like how long?

----------


## jolter604

it actually came with sodium chloride,but i got some bacteriostatic water.thx........................

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> it actually came with sodium chloride,but i got some bacteriostatic water.thx........................


Yes the sodium chloride is not what you want. Use bac water.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> so the water it comes with will not be good for long once mixed? like how long?


I stated in my post - _"That water is only good for a few days." 

_The sodium chloride will not last long, it is made for one time use.

----------


## bifda

Thanks. I'll throw it and get some bac.

----------


## BeingSwole

Got a question,so I started my cycle about 15-16 days ago and at the time my HCG didn't come in. When I did get it, it came without bac water so I has to order that and it took some time. Finally got it today and injected 1000iu because I was late to using it. Question is, when should my next I pin, which would be 250iu be? Should it be in 3.5 days or start with the first 250iu bi-weekly come next week?

----------


## BeingSwole

Sorry about typos. Using my small cellphone screen and looks like I cannot edit the post.

----------


## austinite

250 IU twice weekly.

----------


## Lion19821

Can I just ask with regards the superiority of Bac water vs. other potential dilutants (eg the sodium chloride) is this a question of sterility past a few days, or does it concern the degradation of the HCG ?

In other words, if you used sodium chloride and kept the reconstituted HCG in the fridge for a month, would it have considerably less potency, or just be a higher infection risk? Or both?

This is just out of idle curiosity, I use bac water but it occurred to me that ai don't know the exact reason it's the correct choice.

----------


## BeingSwole

> Can I just ask with regards the superiority of Bac water vs. other potential dilutants (eg the sodium chloride) is this a question of sterility past a few days, or does it concern the degradation of the HCG? In other words, if you used sodium chloride and kept the reconstituted HCG in the fridge for a month, would it have considerably less potency, or just be a higher infection risk? Or both? This is just out of idle curiosity, I use bac water but it occurred to me that ai don't know the exact reason it's the correct choice.


Bacteriostatic water has benzyl alcohol which is a preservative that prolongs the use of what you're trying to dilute. The non Bacteriostatic water is for single use. 

http://bacteriostaticwater.com/

----------


## Lion19821

Yes, but "Prolongs the use" from a sterility perspective, or from an HCG integrity perspective, or both? That's my question, purely for my own edification.

----------


## BeingSwole

> Yes, but "Prolongs the use" from a sterility perspective, or from an HCG integrity perspective, or both? That's my question, purely for my own edification.


Preserves integrity of HCG . Both waters are sterile but the bac is antimicrobial.

----------


## Lion19821

Awesome, thanks.

And Austinite, can I just say that the information in this (and other threads) is exceptional. Nothing like a dispassionate description of the endocrine system to dispel bro-science myths about HCG on-cycle.

----------


## jolter604

if u are sterile on the juice,does adding hcg mean u have swimmers again?

----------


## Lemonada8

why is this not a sticky post?

----------


## jolter604

if steroids make you sterile....does hcg make sperm active while u r on test?

----------


## kelkel

> if steroids make you sterile....does hcg make sperm active while u r on test?


Steroids are not birth control and do not make you sterile. Yes, the potential for pregnancy is lessened but not gone. Yes, HCG will help maintain fertility.

----------


## xzed

Taking hcg during cycle does not make sense. Here why:

FALSE :Big Grin: uring cycle your LH is suppressed. I have to take hcg to increase. 
TRUE: During cycle your testo levels are high incredibly. HCG cant do anything while you have this much testo on your blood. Because your lh is primarly follow your testo(negative feedback). At the same time hcg dosage advised from you is very low. Your body won't recognize any
hcg if you won't decrease your testo level. I was on 2.month of my cycle. Alwaya xheceked testo and lh levels and they were stable. And started hcg on 3. month. After a month my testo levels and lh were exactly SAME. 

FALSE: when i finish my cycle after stopping testo, my lh will increase and and while its increased its wrong to take hcg
TRUE: Your lh will not increase after cycle for a long time. Check your lood levels after cycle and see whats going on. Your lh will try to increase but It will take time. This where hcg have to kick in. Hcg is for hipogonodotrophic hipogonadizm which explains everything. 
Check pubmed articles and read pregnyl treatment informations. You cant see dosage and treatment types which talking here

----------


## Noone290

I have a question I am now on my 9 of out 10 weeks on tren and test. And want to know if I should take the hcg now or after? I read the thread and great read on information but confused about my situation. Wether I should do it now, during pct or when I start my final cycle?

Edit: I'm 6'5 currently 280. If anyone can answer this question it would be much appreciated. Also if you can give me a recommended dosage since this will be my first time taking hcg. Anything I need to know when, how much, etc please let me know. Thanks

----------


## austinite

^ Too late, especially with tren in the mix. Extend your PCT and hope for the best.

----------


## naxxy

Amazing post, very informative. Have been told of people doing 1,000 iu shots of hcg ...... have thought they were idiots, and now i know for sure. haha

----------


## Noone290

> ^ Too late, especially with tren in the mix. Extend your PCT and hope for the best.


Ok. How much do you recommend 250 or 500 twice a week? Or do you recommend I gradually increase to 500 twice a week from 250?

And how long do you recommend the extended pct?

----------


## Iron Mind

Awesome read, pretty much covers everything. The fridge is for more a problem yeah.. But this article gives some more insight about the real need for a fridge and your hCG . 90 days in the fridge, mixed. And max a week without a fridge, mixed. Got it.


I'm not sure what dose to run 2-3x 250iu. Some say 750iu would be too much, but some say that it is better than 500iu weekly. Anyone with more info on what should be better..?


Btw, If I would run a 12 week test-e cycle, should I discontinue hcg use after week 12 or week 14? And just discontinue hcg use 4-5 days before I start PCT or should I discontinue hcg use in week 12.

----------


## austinite

> Ok. How much do you recommend 250 or 500 twice a week? Or do you recommend I gradually increase to 500 twice a week from 250?
> 
> And how long do you recommend the extended pct?


PCT for 6 weeks should be OK. Get blood work 6 weeks after you're done and check LH/FSH and testosterone levels to confirm recovery. 




> Awesome read, pretty much covers everything. The fridge is for more a problem yeah.. But this article gives some more insight about the real need for a fridge and your hCG . 90 days in the fridge, mixed. And max a week without a fridge, mixed. Got it.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what dose to run 2-3x 250iu. Some say 750iu would be too much, but some say that it is better than 500iu weekly. Anyone with more info on what should be better..?
> 
> 
> Btw, If I would run a 12 week test-e cycle, should I discontinue hcg use after week 12 or week 14? And just discontinue hcg use 4-5 days before I start PCT or should I discontinue hcg use in week 12.


500iu per week is plenty for just about anyone. hCG stops when steroid injection/intake stops. So 12 weeks. That two week period prior to PCT is also recovery time, so avoid hCG during those two weeks.

----------


## Iron Mind

> PCT for 6 weeks should be OK. Get blood work 6 weeks after you're done and check LH/FSH and testosterone levels to confirm recovery. 
> 
> 
> 
> 500iu per week is plenty for just about anyone. hCG stops when steroid injection/intake stops. So 12 weeks. That two week period prior to PCT is also recovery time, so avoid hCG during those two weeks.


Alright, got it. Thank you! What's is btw your thought about dropping the hcg 5 days before PCT starts. I also saw that method passing by on the internet.

----------


## austinite

> Alright, got it. Thank you! What's is btw your thought about dropping the hcg 5 days before PCT starts. I also saw that method passing by on the internet.


Same thoughts I have in the article I wrote  :Smilie:  hCG on cycle ONLY.

----------


## Iron Mind

> Same thoughts I have in the article I wrote  hCG on cycle ONLY.


Ah okay, since it's suppressive, I can imagine that, but won't you get testicular atrophy in those last 2 weeks just before PCT starts then if you drop hCG on cycle? 

I'm just trying to put the pieces together for myself, thanks for your time  :Smilie:

----------


## austinite

> Ah okay, since it's suppressive, I can imagine that, but won't you get testicular atrophy in those last 2 weeks just before PCT starts then if you drop hCG on cycle?
> 
> 
> I'm just trying to put the pieces together for myself, thanks for your time


No need to worry about that. It's not likely unless your last injection was a 19-nor, which is not smart anyways. But either way, that is recovery time and recovery time only. 


hCG on cycle only.

----------


## Iron Mind

> No need to worry about that. It's not likely unless your last injection was a 19-nor, which is not smart anyways. But either way, that is recovery time and recovery time only. 
> 
> 
> hCG on cycle only.


Alright, thanks for your info. Really helpful.

----------


## monster-ish

thanks for the post great info. I have a quick question. im going to run it on cycle as suggested. my question is do I stop taking hcg right after last pin? I will be taking test e so I will wait 2 weeks to start pct including clomid and nolvadex . does this sound right?

----------


## austinite

^ yes. on cycle only.

----------


## Bombas-tdot

does this mean i should ignore everyone saying to freeze each individual syringe with pre-meassured dose?

----------


## austinite

> does this mean i should ignore everyone saying to freeze each individual syringe with pre-meassured dose?


Freezing is mentioned in the article.

----------


## FrenchyUK

Sorry if the questions have already been asked. What do you mix it in? Can you inject on the same day as your test?

----------


## Sfla80

.....

----------


## austinite

> Sorry if the questions have already been asked. What do you mix it in? Can you inject on the same day as your test?


you mix it in the vial it came in. 

Yes, you can inject the same day.

----------


## FrenchyUK

Okay. Thank you. 
G

----------


## Gorgos

Why on earth do I read so much about using extreme amounts of HCG during PCT? upp to 5000iu /week

----------


## ocman

Just curious, why does Ovidac 2000iu lyophilized hcg says to reconstitute with 2ml of 0.9% w/v sodium chloride, not bacteriostatic water?

----------


## fitguy

> Taking hcg during cycle does not make sense. Here why:
> 
> FALSEuring cycle your LH is suppressed. I have to take hcg to increase. 
> TRUE: During cycle your testo levels are high incredibly. HCG cant do anything while you have this much testo on your blood. Because your lh is primarly follow your testo(negative feedback). At the same time hcg dosage advised from you is very low. Your body won't recognize any
> hcg if you won't decrease your testo level. I was on 2.month of my cycle. Alwaya xheceked testo and lh levels and they were stable. And started hcg on 3. month. After a month my testo levels and lh were exactly SAME. 
> 
> FALSE: when i finish my cycle after stopping testo, my lh will increase and and while its increased its wrong to take hcg
> TRUE: Your lh will not increase after cycle for a long time. Check your lood levels after cycle and see whats going on. Your lh will try to increase but It will take time. This where hcg have to kick in. Hcg is for hipogonodotrophic hipogonadizm which explains everything. 
> Check pubmed articles and read pregnyl treatment informations. You cant see dosage and treatment types which talking here


Any opinions on that ?

----------


## austinite

> Any opinions on that ?


Yes, it's in the article. All of it.

----------


## Iron Mind

Hmm so I got some hCG with sterile water instead of bacteriostatic water. This brand was supposed to be for 1 x injection only, but since I'm not injecting 5000iu at once, but like 500iu per week. I'm left with 5000iu and 1 ml of sterile sodium chloride 0,9%, so without the 0,9% benzyl alcohol. 

So I'm thinking about mixing the hCG with the sterile water and divide this amount upon x slin needles and then freeze the amount in that I don't need to preserve the hCG.

But now I'm unsure if this is a smart thing to do? I read mixed stuff about freezing hCG. Some say you can freeze it and some say you can't. I'm not sure what to do, keeping it in the refrigarator might not be smart, since it would be mixed with sterile water instead of bacteriostatic.

Is it fine to freeze in the slin needles or would I need bateriostatic water and just keep the other needles in the refrigator at a higher temperature? Thanks a lot.

----------


## [email protected]

The sterile sodium chloride water is for one time use. You need bacteriostatic water to use multiple times. Get bac water and then you won't have any issues.

----------


## Iron Mind

> The sterile sodium chloride water is for one time use. You need bacteriostatic water to use multiple times. Get bac water and then you won't have any issues.


I can imagine that yes, when I want to keep it in the refrigarator.

But my question was if I can get away with keeping it in the freezer, since then I won't need bac water for this time. But then I must use the freezer (sub zero temperature) 

If I can't use the freezer than I would need bac water for sure to keep it in the refrigarator instead of the freezer.

----------


## [email protected]

You can keep HCG unconstituted in the freezer that's fine. After you add the bac water you keep that vial in the fridge. Don't use the sodium chloride water at all.

----------


## Iron Mind

> You can keep HCG unconstituted in the freezer that's fine. After you add the bac water you keep that vial in the fridge. Don't use the sodium chloride water at all.


I mean of course if I can keep it in the freezer when it's mixed.

----------


## Synhax

Incredibly informative for newbies like me, thank you so much for this!!

----------


## groupa199

This question may have been asked before about preparing hcg so sorry in advance if it has.
My hcg is prescription and contains ampules with 1500iu hcg and 1ml normal saline. So far I have been getting my hcg injection at the doctor twice per week per the prescription for 1 week. Theres probably no way to adjust the mixture so I get 250iu twice per week. What is my best option ?

----------


## austinite

> This question may have been asked before about preparing hcg so sorry in advance if it has.
> My hcg is prescription and contains ampules with 1500iu hcg and 1ml normal saline. So far I have been getting my hcg injection at the doctor twice per week per the prescription for 1 week. Theres probably no way to adjust the mixture so I get 250iu twice per week. What is my best option ?


You can adjust to whatever you want. The math formula is listed in this thread for your reference.

----------


## thatyoungdr

Any reason to take a break mid cycle so hcg receptors can reset? Mega dose after cycle but before pct?

----------


## groupa199

I have been using hcg for several weeks now at 250iu twice per week. I find that the hcg pin really gives a big sting like an instant cork at the site. The test-e I don't really feel at all.

----------


## kelkel

> Any reason to take a break mid cycle so hcg receptors can reset? Mega dose after cycle but before pct?


No, none at all. Sorry we didn't see this post earlier.





> I have been using hcg for several weeks now at 250iu twice per week. I find that the hcg pin really gives a big sting like an instant cork at the site. The test-e I don't really feel at all.


Make sure the alcohol is dry before you pin. Also, you can simply touch the pin to the skin in the area you plan on injecting and feel whether it's a sensitive area or not. If so, move over a tiny bit.

----------


## austinite

Thanks, Kel.

----------


## groupa199

Thanks Kelkel , I will wait till the alcohol dries. I have tried different spots and find the pain is only there after injection. Inserting the pin I don't really feel but when I push the liquid in is when I get a sudden sting. It also feels like a cork in the muscle for about 5 minutes if I walk or flex the muscle.

----------


## anabolicsqa

Hi Austinite, nice write-up. Answers many questions for me and others.

Forgive me if this was already asked, but can HCG restore a male's ability to procreate? 
Also, when on HCG, is it important to decrease AAS/TRT dosages, or does it not matter?

I have been on TRT for a while now (also stacking in some AAS), but my doc never wrote me a prescription for HCG. I'm realizing I should start using HCG, for the same reasons given in the OP, and before found this thread I posted a question about HCG in the TRT forum.

----------


## austinite

> Forgive me if this was already asked, but can HCG restore a male's ability to procreate?


Yes, many docs prescribe it. But I recommend hMG for that purpose as it mimics LH and FSH.





> Also, when on HCG, is it important to decrease AAS/TRT dosages, or does it not matter?


Not sure I understand the question. Blood work will tell you if you need to adjust your TRT dose. That can't really be answered as it is individualistic.

----------


## charger69

The dosage states 5000 iu. They provide 1 ml of liquid.
When i mix it i get the following
5000/1=5000
There are 10 units per ml on syringe (3 ml)
5000/10=500
250 iu/500= 1/2 unit. - almost nothing

Is this correct? It is way different than the example however the math provides this. 
I am sure that i am missing something but i can't figure it out. The main differnece is the amount of liquid.
This kit supposedly had everything needed.

----------


## The Deadlifting Dog

I am pretty sure you screwed yourself. 
The liquid it comes with is for one time use. 
You are supposed to mix it with bacteriostatic water.

----------


## The Deadlifting Dog

If you mixed 5000iu with 1 ml the every .1ml has 500iu or every .05ml has 250iu. Very small indeed. That is why most with mix it with 5ml. I mix it with 3ml 'cause that is how big the vial of dried hCG can hold.

----------


## charger69

Can i fix it by adding bact. Water?

----------


## [email protected]

Once you've mixed with the sodium chloride solution it's one time use. Bac water only for multiple use.

----------


## Paden5971

Is Hcg also know as Pregnyl?

----------


## [email protected]

Pregnyl is one of several brand names for HCG .

----------


## charger69

Where can you purchase bac water?

----------


## [email protected]

Amazon and various online medical supply sites carry bac water.

----------


## austinite

Thanks, [email protected]

----------


## Gorgos

Does this apply to long-term usage such as cruise and blast for several years? 

Ive heard lots of stories from ppl claiming that using HCG for couple of months will denz your leydig cells but it says that if you wont use HCG it can happen anyway?

Thats why some ppl use so called "power PCT".

----------


## [email protected]

I can tell you for a fact that years of TRT without HCG will cause your testicles to shrink. I gave them a good 8 months of HCG at 250iu twice a week and one came almost back to normal and the other one no response. So if it matters to you about your testicles maintaining size then by all means use the HCG. Does it matter if you take it or not? I went close to 20 years on TRT without HCG and everything still functions no problem. Just have raisins instead of balls. The only real upside is they don't get in the way anymore.

----------


## Gorgos

> I can tell you for a fact that years of TRT without HCG will cause your testicles to shrink. I gave them a good 8 months of HCG at 250iu twice a week and one came almost back to normal and the other one no response. So if it matters to you about your testicles maintaining size then by all means use the HCG. Does it matter if you take it or not? I went close to 20 years on TRT without HCG and everything still functions no problem. Just have raisins instead of balls. The only real upside is they don't get in the way anymore.


If you do heavy cycles for months and years then its beneficial for your recovery to use HCG on cycle. TRT is for life so I can understand why you dont choose HCG, feels like a different purpose.

----------


## numbere

> If you do heavy cycles for months and years then its beneficial for your recovery to use HCG on cycle. TRT is for life so I can understand why you dont choose HCG, feels like a different purpose.


Hcg is has more benefits than just increasing the rate of recovery. Everyone who takes AAS should use hcg. This is due to the fact that exogenous test will stop natural LH production and hcg _mimis_ LH.

When taking test cholesterol will increase. Cholesterol is very important in our bodies because it's the beginning structure for many hormones, but having too much is not healthy. Cytochrome p450 is an enzyme which is stimulated by LH, and changes cholesterol into other important hormones. Using hcg helps keep enzyme and hormonal pathways flowing. This is why many report an increased sense of well being when adding hcg to their cycle.

----------


## [email protected]

> If you do heavy cycles for months and years then its beneficial for your recovery to use HCG on cycle. TRT is for life so I can understand why you dont choose HCG, feels like a different purpose.


Only in the past few years has the benefits of HCG been understood while on TRT. No doctor prescribed HCG 10 years ago for TRT patients. HCG has a place in all AAS usage if you care about testicular atrophy and other health benefits.

----------


## Gorgos

> Hcg is has more benefits than just increasing the rate of recovery. Everyone who takes AAS should use hcg. This is due to the fact that exogenous test will stop natural LH production and hcg _mimis_ LH.
> 
> When taking test cholesterol will increase. Cholesterol is very important in our bodies because it's the beginning structure for many hormones, but having too much is not healthy. Cytochrome p450 is an enzyme which is stimulated by LH, and changes cholesterol into other important hormones. Using hcg helps keep enzyme and hormonal pathways flowing. This is why many report an increased sense of well being when adding hcg to their cycle.


I love HCG and always include in on my cycles but I had a discussion with some old-school bodybuilders who told me HCG is only beneficial during PCT and they said that the stuff on the internet is only science its not practical for 5 cent. 

Its kinda sad since HCG is very important, probably more important than pct.

----------


## n1x0n

I don't see any references. Can you post the reference for the claim that HCG doesn't lose effect until 90 days? Would be interesting to read, don't think I've seen it before.

----------


## edmondle

Austinite thanks for the great info, sorry if this question have been answered before. How much and how many injection HCG for TRT protocol? Is it the same as AAS cycle at 250IUX2 a week?

Thanks

----------


## austinite

> Austinite thanks for the great info, sorry if this question have been answered before. How much and how many injection HCG for TRT protocol? Is it the same as AAS cycle at 250IUX2 a week?
> 
> Thanks


It varies per individual. Use as little as possible that works. No need to waste. 250 twice weekly is a good start but lately been proven to be a hefty dose for most. You don't need a whole lot. So long as your testes are full or "Normal sized", you'll be fine.

----------


## kelkel

> So long as your testes are full or "Normal sized", you'll be fine.


Who's judging?

----------


## austinite

> Who's judging?


You be the judge.

----------


## kelkel

> You be the judge.


Crap. Gotta warm my hands up.

----------


## n1x0n

Can I use it as long as 18 weeks without needing to be worried about desensitization of leydig cells? 

250 ui twice a week for 18 weeks.

----------


## numbere

> Can I use it as long as 18 weeks without needing to be worried about desensitization of leydig cells? 
> 
> 250 ui twice a week for 18 weeks.


There are two ways leydig cell desensitization may occur. The first is prolonged leydig cell deprivation. An example of this would be a long steroid cycle. The second is over stimulation from very large doses of LH.

You should be fine using hcg for 18 weeks, but no one can tell you definitively because everyone reacts different. IMO 18 weeks is an excessively long time to be shut down. I think you should plan a shorter cycle.

----------


## n1x0n

> There are two ways leydig cell desensitization may occur. The first is prolonged leydig cell deprivation. An example of this would be a long steroid cycle. The second is over stimulation from very large doses of LH.
> 
> You should be fine using hcg for 18 weeks, but no one can tell you definitively because everyone reacts different. IMO 18 weeks is an excessively long time to be shut down. I think you should plan a shorter cycle.


The plan is to run test e for 14-16 weeks depending on how it feels. If I run HCG until 3 days before PCT it will be used for 17.5 weeks.

----------


## Juced_porkchop

> Any reason to take a break mid cycle so hcg receptors can reset? Mega dose after cycle but before pct?


just use it at loe wose during cycle or what i personally rec is last 4-5 weeks of cycle leading up to BUT NOT into PCT use 500iu 2x a week HCG .

----------


## JoliQuZ

For how long is it okay to stay on HCG ?
Been ON for 7 months now and been using HCG the whole time (1000IU EW).
I took my last pin today so pct starts in 2 weeks.

----------


## edmondle

> It varies per individual. Use as little as possible that works. No need to waste. 250 twice weekly is a good start but lately been proven to be a hefty dose for most. You don't need a whole lot. So long as your testes are full or "Normal sized", you'll be fine.



Thanks for the reply, currently I'm on a 500mg/week blast my buddies shrank so much so I bumped HCG from 250iuX2 weekly to 250iuX3 weekly, if I'm back on my TRT should I just drop it back to 250iuX2 again? Or keep using 250iuX3 weekly till it comes back? 

Thank you

----------


## kelkel

Keep in mind a lot of the top doc's are encouraging daily low dose use of HCG . Ex: 100 IU's daily.

----------


## Gorgos

If someone is planning to stay on for several yers, would HCG (500-1000iu EW) during the whole cycle be better than "blasting" in PCT? 

I've not seen any studies regarding leydig cell desensitization during long time usage.

----------


## Back In Black

If you stay on for several years there is no point in running a pct, chance of recovery would be minimal at best.

----------


## Gorgos

> If you stay on for several years there is no point in running a pct, chance of recovery would be minimal at best.


Yes but how about the effectiveness of hcg during that time?

----------


## Back In Black

> Yes but how about the effectiveness of hcg during that time?


People on TRT take it permanently. There is some good advice in that section.

Please don't stay on cycle for years though else TRT is very much in your future

----------


## MrFreshmaker

> People on TRT take it permanently. There is some good advice in that section. Please don't stay on cycle for years though else TRT is very much in your future


Hey BB.
First of all sorry for hijacking the thread,but I've a question.
You say don't stay too long on cycle cuz chances for recovery are small,but since i joined this forum,i didn't seen anyone saying that he FULLY recovered after first or second cycle,i even opened a thread about this question.Do you know anyone that fully recovered?

----------


## Back In Black

> Hey BB.
> First of all sorry for hijacking the thread,but I've a question.
> You say don't stay too long on cycle cuz chances for recovery are small,but since i joined this forum,i didn't seen anyone saying that he FULLY recovered after first or second cycle,i even opened a thread about this question.Do you know anyone that fully recovered?


Personally no. But then most people don't get bloodwork. Even if people don't fully recover though it doesn't mean their new levels will be very low. But shut down for years, well......

----------


## MrFreshmaker

> Personally no. But then most people don't get bloodwork. Even if people don't fully recover though it doesn't mean their new levels will be very low. But shut down for years, well......


For a whole year I've searched the web about this,and what I've found were only theories,or as you said,with lower levels,but none with full recovery! I guess if once you try it,there's no turning back to where you were before(concerning hormones)!

----------


## edmondle

> Keep in mind a lot of the top doc's are encouraging daily low dose use of HCG. Ex: 100 IU's daily.


Hi KEL do u think 100iu ed is better than 250iuX3?

----------


## TrIff

Can I pin 250 ui e4d or will the total week dosage be to low (437ui)?

----------


## The Deadlifting Dog

> Can I pin 250 ui e4d or will the total week dosage be to low (437ui)?


That would be fine.

----------


## kelkel

> Hi KEL do u think 100iu ed is better than 250iuX3?


Personally no but you'd have to try it and see if you feel a difference. I do know several guys who say they felt a difference.

----------


## edmondle

> Personally no but you'd have to try it and see if you feel a difference. I do know several guys who say they felt a difference.



I'll try both way and see which one is better for me, thanks  :Smilie:

----------


## AR's King Silabolin

What about sides? 1000 iu ew for 3 months without sides? HCG just talkes to the leydig cells and interfers with no other organs or reseptors?

----------


## numbere

> What about sides? 1000 iu ew for 3 months without sides? HCG just talkes to the leydig cells and interfers with no other organs or reseptors?


Hcg does more than just keep leydig cells responsive.

Cytochrome p450 is a class of enzymes which are stimulated by LH (or hcg), and change cholesterol into other important hormones. Using hcg helps keep enzyme and hormonal pathways flowing. 

This is why many report an increased sense of well being when adding hcg to their cycle.

----------


## 97viper

> A standard insulin syringe can hold 1 CC in volume. Each barrel will have markings in 1 unit increments up to 100. So each CC displays 100 unit markings.
> 
> *Step 1:* Amount of hCG units in a vial DIVIDED BY total CC's of solution added = Amount of hCG you will have per CC. 
> *Step 1 example:* 10,000 / 10 = 1,000
> 
> *Step 2:* Amount of hCG per CC (result of step 1) DIVIDED BY 100 (number of units on a slin pin) = amount of hCG per unit.
> *Step 2 example:* 1,000 / 100 = 10
> 
> *Step 3:* Amount desired per injection DIVIDED BY amount of hCG per unit (result of step 2) = Number of units to draw from your mixed vial.
> *Step 3 example:* 250 IU / 10 = 25 units. You would draw 25 units, or a quarter of a CC on a slin pin.


If i use a .5 cc syringe since that's what I have on hand, 250 IU will still be 25 units, correct? I ask because in step 2 if I divide by 50 which is what the .5 cc syringe holds rather than 100 used in the example, my final figure would be 12.5 units for 250 IU. U

----------


## numbere

> If i use a .5 cc syringe since that's what I have on hand, 250 IU will still be 25 units, correct? I ask because in step 2 if I divide by 50 which is what the .5 cc syringe holds rather than 100 used in the example, my final figure would be 12.5 units for 250 IU. U


If you add 10 cc of solvent to 10,000 IU of hcg then you will have 250 IU/25 units.

Just because your pin only holds 0.5 cc does not change the amount of units per cc.

----------


## LegionVon

Should i run my AI. A little higher if using hCG on cycle?

----------


## Paden5971

Great post. I ordered mine a few days ago for my next cycle. I plan to mix my B12 with it. What is a good dose to start with?

----------


## austinite

> Should i run my AI. A little higher if using hCG on cycle?


No. 




> Great post. I ordered mine a few days ago for my next cycle. I plan to mix my B12 with it. What is a good dose to start with?


Doses listed in the article will do just fine.

----------


## Nine91

Quick question. I will have some open hcg left over from a cycle. Been doing 500iu per week. Can I blast more near the end to get more use out of it? Would that benefit me at all or just do damage? Something like 1000iu for a few weeks or more? Thanks

----------


## [email protected]

No need to increase the weekly dose. 250iu twice a week is plenty.

----------


## austinite

> No need to increase the weekly dose. 250iu twice a week is plenty.


I agree with [email protected] above.

----------


## blackj

Hi
Thanks for the great info!

Is it OK to use hcg for long times ? For 12 weeks cycles or more should we use hcg for the entire cycle?

Thanks in advance

----------


## Kyle1337

> Hi
> Thanks for the great info!
> 
> Is it OK to use hcg for long times ? For 12 weeks cycles or more should we use hcg for the entire cycle?
> 
> Thanks in advance


Absolutely. In fact, you should run it longer than 12 weeks if doing a 12 week cycle. If you do any cycle, it'll be longer than the actual time you're using. Run HCG 3 days prior to PCT.

----------


## blackj

thanks for your answer!

so there's no desensitization possibility for long usage of hcg !?




> hCG can be used for 90 days after reconstituting it. After 90 days, it loses approximately 10% potency per month. *You can leave hCG at room temperature for about a week with negligible potency loss*. No loss if it's in the early stages after mixing. After 90 days, you would simply increase dose to compensate for the 10% loss per month. So for those of you who travel, do not be afraid to take your hCG. No need to go through the extra measure of keeping it cool.


i didnt get the bolded part ! it states that we can leave *reconstituted* hcg at room temperature for a week ? or before reconstitution !?

----------


## numbere

> thanks for your answer!
> 
> so there's no desensitization possibility for long usage of hcg !?
> 
> i didnt get the bolded part ! it states that we can leave *reconstituted* hcg at room temperature for a week ? or before reconstitution !?


Leydig cell desensitization will only occur from large amounts of hcg or long AAS cycles without hcg.

Hcg will suffer and insignificant loss in effectiveness if left at room temperature for a week after being reconstituted with bacteriostatic water.

----------


## ocman

Ok, so I forgot to put the hCG back in the refrigerator and it sat in a box in the closet for 3 days, is it safe to use or should i toss it?

----------


## charger69

> Ok, so I forgot to put the hCG back in the refrigerator and it sat in a box in the closet for 3 days, is it safe to use or should i toss it?


Was it mixed with bac water?
I do not think that safety is at risk with bac water however the "potency" will not last as long. The refrigeration is to preserve the mix as long as possible, however I am not an expert.

----------


## kelkel

> Ok, so I forgot to put the hCG back in the refrigerator and it sat in a box in the closet for 3 days, is it safe to use or should i toss it?



It's absolutely fine. Zero worries.

----------


## ocman

> It's absolutely fine. Zero worries.


sweet!

yes, it was mixed with bac water.

----------


## ocman

> It's absolutely fine. Zero worries.


ha,btw, where did you get those ****ing biceps at sears (2 for 1 special)...lol

----------


## X-BODY

Forgive me for my bad English and if this was already asked. 
I will go new cycle(12 weeks) after long break and i have 5000iu Pregnyl by MSD Pharma but i will need a 2000iu/month. (250+250=500iu/week) 
If I mix 5000 iu hcg with 10 ml bac water, i will have 500iu/ml x10 times(2,5 months) dose of hcg. But mixed hcg's effectiveness is up to 4 weeks only right??? This mean, should i throw out the remaining hcg end of the month?? or what? I m confused can't calculate  :Big Grin:

----------


## Bio-Active

> Forgive me for my bad English and if this was already asked. I will go new cycle(12 weeks) after long break and i have 5000iu Pregnyl by MSD Pharma but i will need a 2000iu/month. (250+250=500iu/week) If I mix 5000 iu hcg with 10 ml bac water, i will have 500iu/ml x10 times(2,5 months) dose of hcg. But mixed hcg's effectiveness is up to 4 weeks only right??? This mean, should i throw out the remaining hcg end of the month?? or what? I m confused can't calculate


no if you store it properly it will not start to loose potency for 90 days

----------


## X-BODY

> no if you store it properly it will not start to loose potency for 90 days


Is this means only 1 ampoule(5000) hcg + 10 ml bac water mix is enough for my entire 12 weeks cycle in total right???? NOTE: i will store the mixture in refrigerator between 4-5 C i think its ok?
Sorry for my bad English again  :Smilie:

----------


## Bio-Active

> Is this means i can go 1 ampoule(5000) hcg + 10 ml bac water mix is enough for my entire 12 weeks cycle in total right???? NOTE: i will store the mixture in refrigerator between 4-5 C i think its ok? Sorry for my bad English again


store it in the fridge and yes it will not loose potency for 90 days

----------


## boofhead187

Damn, I didn't realize you needed a 1ml syringe and 30g needles. I only got my 3ml syringes and 25g needles from my Test injection.
I was just going to inject hCG into my other quad tomorrow, can I use those until I get some 1ml and 30g needles ?

----------


## Xv1d

> Damn, I didn't realize you needed a 1ml syringe and 30g needles. I only got my 3ml syringes and 25g needles from my Test injection.
> I was just going to inject hCG into my other quad tomorrow, can I use those until I get some 1ml and 30g needles ?


It's recommended but not nessecary. Pinning HCG IM is fine.

----------


## kelkel

> Damn, I didn't realize you needed a 1ml syringe and 30g needles. I only got my 3ml syringes and 25g needles from my Test injection.
> I was just going to inject hCG into my other quad tomorrow, can I use those until I get some 1ml and 30g needles ?


Just put it in the same syringe as your test.

----------


## MILO6

Hi,

40 years old
male
6-1
197 lbs
BF 17%

firt time cycle.

I´m starting my 6th week of a 7 week cycle with a few mistakes. as i just notices with this page.
cypionate test (250 mg) i started 0.5 cc and gradually increased till 1.5cc, and then decreasing to 0.5 cc again. Every 5 days
And using oxymetholone 50 mg ED
I have on hands nolvadex 20 mg, but never felt any gyno symptoms

my concern is: i never ran HCG , this is my last week. Should i still get it? or just do the PCT with nolvadex?
i understood, correct me if not, that if you didnt take HCG ON cycle, it wouldnt be correct to use it on PCT?

thanks

----------


## MILO6

> It's absolutely fine. Zero worries.


HEY KELKEL: Im concerned about HCG :

40 years old
male
6-1
197 lbs
BF 17%

first time cycle.

I´m starting my 6th week of a 7 week cycle with a few mistakes. as i just noticed with this page.
cypionate test (250 mg) i started 0.5 cc and gradually increased till 1.5cc, and then decreasing to 0.5 cc again. Every 5 days
And using oxymetholone 50 mg ED
I have on hands nolvadex 20 mg, but never felt any gyno symptoms

my concern is: i never ran HCG , this is my last week. Should i still get it? or just do the PCT with nolvadex?
i understood, correct me if not, that if you didnt take HCG ON cycle, it wouldnt be correct to use it on PCT?

thanks

----------


## numbere

> Hi,
> 
> 40 years old
> male
> 6-1
> 197 lbs
> BF 17%
> 
> firt time cycle.
> ...


Welcome to the forum!

You're correct, using hcg during pct is not the best decision.

It would be a good idea to do more research because there is a lot of room for improvement in your cycle.

Before cycling again it would be a good idea to make your own thread in the Q&A section and list your cycle.

You should source some clomid and two weeks after your last pin run a PCT as follows:

Clomid 75/50/50/50
nolva 40/20/20/20

----------


## Junni

Hello,

I've followed this guide and i'm currently doing a cycle of 12 weeks, of test E 500mg every week separated by two 250mg shots every 3.5 days. Same protocol for pregnyl with 250ui every 3.5 days. Also i'm taking arimidex 0.25 EOD.

My mid cycle results just came and my LH is < 0,10 mIU/ML in a 0.00 - 25.00 range. 
All my stuff was bought on a pharmacy, so my question is, shouldn't my LH be in normal values if im taking pregnyl?

Also my estradiol is 69.82 pg/ml on a 0 - 90 scale. Should i increase arimidex ou change to aromasin ?


Sorry for hijacking on this thread. Maybe i should open a topic on bloodwork forum.

----------


## kelkel

Your LH bottoms out when on exogenous testosterone . HCG does not stimulate LH production it only mimics it and will not show on a blood test. So the answer is no. I'd leave your AI alone. Assuming the reading is accurate (and it's probably not as standard estradiol is geared to women and not accurate for men) it's always better to be a little high than low. You're fine.

----------


## hammerheart

I want to add HCG to my TRT protocol, but:

1) can't find vials anywhere
2) same applies to bac water

What I got is

1) HCG that comes in AMPS
2) NaCl 0.9% sterile solution
3) BA 99.98% solution
4) syringes

So duh I can make my own bac water, mix it with the powder, then preload some syringes.

In terms of sterility is this a good idea? I'm planning to start with a 250 IU EOD regimen.

----------


## Sfla80

> I want to add HCG to my TRT protocol, but:
> 
> 1) can't find vials anywhere
> 2) same applies to bac water
> 
> What I got is
> 
> 1) HCG that comes in AMPS
> 2) NaCl 0.9% sterile solution
> ...


Alot of people make their own bac water.

But it's really easy to find. 

Most online medical supply stores carry it. Same with vials.

----------


## FONZY007

> I want to add HCG to my TRT protocol, but:
> 
> 1) can't find vials anywhere
> 2) same applies to bac water
> 
> What I got is
> 
> 1) HCG that comes in AMPS
> 2) NaCl 0.9% sterile solution
> ...


I boiled water let cool added it into sterile vial and then added in the BA. Easy and cheap.

----------


## hammerheart

> Alot of people make their own bac water.
> 
> But it's really easy to find. 
> 
> Most online medical supply stores carry it. Same with vials.


Easy indeed, but only from the US. Shipment is about $50 and it could take months to arrive. Once here. the Italian customs won't let anything in unless you specify what it is. I had a promo from iherb (8 pills...) seized and then asked for a $15 fee just for handling the item. If it pass, the postman will ask for import duties. It just get too expensive and annoying, so batching my own bac water is the way to go.




> I boiled water let cool added it into sterile vial and then added in the BA. Easy and cheap.


I can get NaCl sterile solution for cheap from the pharmacy. It comes in 250ml vials, but those are way oversized for the purpose.

Do you check for water PH? Plain water looks less than ideal, imho.

----------


## numbere

> I can get NaCl sterile solution for cheap from the pharmacy. It comes in 250ml vials, but those are way oversized for the purpose.


NaCl is not adequate for long term storage.

You need benzyl alcohol 9mg/ml as a bacteriostatic preservative.

----------


## hammerheart

> NaCl is not adequate for long term storage.
> 
> You need benzyl alcohol 9mg/ml as a bacteriostatic preservative.


Indeed I have BA, I wrote it above.

I'm wondering how much time it will take for the Leydigs to respond, after two years of suppressive TRT. 

My urologist said the testes look hypoechoic on ultrasound, that means there is some degree of atrophy already.

----------


## numbere

> Indeed I have BA, I wrote it above.
> 
> I'm wondering how much time it will take for the Leydigs to respond, after two years of suppressive TRT. 
> 
> My urologist said the testes look hypoechoic on ultrasound, that means there is some degree of atrophy already.


I saw you had BA, was just making sure that you know it's needed.

No offense but most of the posters in this thread need specific instructions.

You should notice a difference by the end week one. 

Don't forget hcg is necessary for more than just testicular function.

----------


## FONZY007

> Indeed I have BA, I wrote it above.
> 
> I'm wondering how much time it will take for the Leydigs to respond, after two years of suppressive TRT.
> 
> My urologist said the testes look hypoechoic on ultrasound, that means there is some degree of atrophy already.


I used hcg but I would break out. I have lost a 25% of my size since I'm on trt for 8 years. Takes 4 to 6 weeks to gain some size back in the little boys

----------


## Miki3

Not Use hCG Post Cycle? .. What about Dr.scally power pct? large dose of HCG can desensitize you. So what is good about power pct?

----------


## numbere

> Not Use hCG Post Cycle? .. What about Dr.scally power pct? large dose of HCG can desensitize you. So what is good about power pct?


Hcg shouldn't be used during PCT because it mimics lh and is suppressive to natural lh production. 

I don’t like the idea of using more than 500 IU of hCG per day and would skip this step if implementing the Power PCT Program. There is no need to use hCG with this protocol unless you will be having blood work at the end of the first 15 days of the program because it's purpose is to only check for primary vs secondary hypogonadism. Using hcg during SERM therapy is counterproductive. 

The Power PCT Program consists of two parts, and uses three research compounds. Part I uses hCG to test functionality of the leydig cells. Part II uses nolva and closed to stimulate a hypothalamic pituitary response.

----------


## Miki3

My eng is little bad.. so if i understand good you prefer hcg during cycle and dont aprove power pct? ... - SERM therapy= pct/tamox,etc/ ? just for sure  :Big Grin:  sorry for being anoying

----------


## AR's King Silabolin

Did my first hcg shot today. Ever. Just mixed 1250 IU with 1 cc deca and 1 cc sus in the same syringe. Felt a bit nervous. When i looked inside the syringe before injection it was not nice, almost greyish, foggy oily. Not so clear and nice as the usual deca/sus mix. Had it become toxic?...Fuk it, guess it wont kill me. I had a "friend" and he ratted on some mcguys and they injected gasolin in his ass. It didnt kill him. So:-)...Now 30 minutes after i feel fine, guess it will be ok. Stil, calming to read aust hcg mixing lesson. It should be ok.
Thanks aust

I know it should not be 1250 but i will only run hcg the last 2 weeks of my cycle and ive got 5000 IU.
But now, when im inside the hcgworld, i maybe running it 250 IU twice a week for my christmascycle.

----------


## charger69

> Did my first hcg shot today. Ever. Just mixed 1250 IU with 1 cc deca and 1 cc sus in the same syringe. Felt a bit nervous. When i looked inside the syringe before injection it was not nice, almost greyish, foggy oily. Not so clear and nice as the usual deca/sus mix. Had it become toxic?...Fuk it, guess it wont kill me. I had a "friend" and he ratted on some mcguys and they injected gasolin in his ass. It didnt kill him. So:-)...Now 30 minutes after i feel fine, guess it will be ok. Stil, calming to read aust hcg mixing lesson. It should be ok. Thanks aust I know it should not be 1250 but i will only run hcg the last 2 weeks of my cycle and ive got 5000 IU. But now, when im inside the hcgworld, i maybe running it 250 IU twice a week for my christmascycle.


Silabolin- welcome to the underworld. Hahahaha. Just want to comment... IMHO you should refrain from taking too much hCG because it can desensitize your leydig cells.
Not taking any and taking too much are equally bad.

----------


## AR's King Silabolin

but im only doing 5000 IU spread out for two weeks....1250 x 4 should be just as fine as your 250 x 2 for 12 weeks when it comes to desensitizition.
Or thats what i think. Hcg never been my cup of tea and my knowledge is nothing to write home about.

----------


## charger69

> but im only doing 5000 IU spread out for two weeks....1250 x 4 should be just as fine as your 250 x 2 for 12 weeks when it comes to desensitizition. Or thats what i think. Hcg never been my cup of tea and my knowledge is nothing to write home about.


Silabon- i will provide my thoughts.... Would you use that same thought process for a cycle? Instead of 12 weeks let's take it in two? Better yet, let's use a hard drug as an example. Your heart will be able to take a certain qty of coke, try taking it all at once and you have just overburdened your heart and it will stop. Same principle.
I will never claim to be the expert at anything on this forum. There are much more knowledgeable people then myself. I am just providing my reasoning and beliefs.

----------


## AR's King Silabolin

I read you. I know 500 a week is far far better but this time i have deceided to run it just the two last weeks. 

And i have just 1 cc of it and splitting it more than 4, will be too tecnically.
And my LH is zero now nevertheless.

----------


## vulfor

On a test only 12 week cycle, would it be beneficial to use 750 (3x250) iu of hcg instead of 500 every week assuming the rest is thrown in trash? (if its refrigerated in ba water it only lasts for 2 months?)

----------


## DocToxin8

This is what my specialist says regarding hCG (and I trust him, treated a lot of bodybuilders). 

When using 5000u amps of hCG, and you only have sterile 0,9% NaCl water,
mix it and divide 250u to max 500u into three insulin syringes. 
Throw away the rest of the hCG. 
Use 250u to max 500u x3 weekly. 

(The point about throwing the extra hCG away is up to you,
He's a doctor and won't risk his patients injecting hCG with bacteria,
how long you can actually get away with storing hCG in pre filled insulin syringes, without BA, that's up to each and everyone)

Silabolin: when you mix hCG with oil (didn't you mix it with water first?)
then I'd guess the hCG could precipitate, at least if you dont mix it with water first. This is probably harmless, but if it causes the hCG to change its tertiary structure (folding) then it might be rendered inactive. 
However, if the hCG remains intact in oil only, there's also another issue, namely that you might have changed the rate of absorption. 
(Probably delaying its release)
To test if the hCG is active at all this way,
you could buy a pregnancy test and use it. 
If you're pregnant then it's active. 
If you get a sensitive pregnancy test (or several)
and use them at a fixed time (12h f ex) after the same dose of hCG,
One time with oil, one time with water, then you could teach us all something new.

----------


## DocToxin8

And Sil: 
If you only got one 5000u amp of hCG , then yeah, you could use it all spaced out in 4 injects (over 10 days, which i would say is ok with sterile water)
Your leydig cells won't be damaged by that, but your E2 might increase much. 
However, your point about not having any LH anyways is flawed,
as LH is secreted from your pituitary/brain, while the leydig cells are in your testes/balls. Your brain might never secrete enough LH to keep a normal test level again, but your leydig cells/balls might be able to produce enough test if you use hCG or HMG correctly.

----------


## unckle

So if i want to know if HCG is really HCG can I test it before I inject it? When people talk about a pregnancy test am I putting the HCG on it or am I pissing on it after an injection? I'm new to this whole thing and I apologize up front if this is a stupid question. I also tried to read through this string on this original post but I glaze over because its so long...again apologize if I missed something.

----------


## The Deadlifting Dog

> So if i want to know if HCG is really HCG can I test it before I inject it? When people talk about a pregnancy test am I putting the HCG on it or am I pissing on it after an injection? I'm new to this whole thing and I apologize up front if this is a stupid question. I also tried to read through this string on this original post but I glaze over because its so long...again apologize if I missed something.


put about 250ius of the hCG directly onto the pregnancy test

----------


## unckle

Thanks, Dog. I did exactly that. First HcG I bought was bunk and I thought I did the test wrong. Went to a different source and their HcG tested good. So I'm more knowledgeable now.... lol

----------


## zigzagzig

Hey guys, my HCG (powder) came in two ampoules containing 5000iu each and I would like some input on how to store and manage it for a 12-week Test E cycle. I have one vial of 15ml of Bac water. As I can't store the mix on the ampoule, I am considering:

0) Freeze one ampoule
1) Break the other ampoule containing HCG powder
2) Draw 2ml of Bac water in a syringe and pour it on the broken ampoule with HCG
3) Mix (how?)
4) Using a syringe, draw the mixture and insert it on a sterilized empty vial
5) Store the vial in the fridge and use it to pin twice a week for the first 6 weeks
6) At the end of the 6th week, bring the frozen ampoule to the frigde and repeat steps 1 to 5.

Does this sound like a good plan to you?

----------


## zigzagzig

I'd really appreciate if someone could help me on how to handle HCG in ampoules.

----------


## cousinmuscles

Your steps are correct. HCG dissolves very quickly I have done 5000 iu in 1ml several times even but do 2ml to be safe. Just roll the amp with your fingers.

----------


## zigzagzig

> Your steps are correct. HCG dissolves very quickly I have done 5000 iu in 1ml several times even but do 2ml to be safe. Just roll the amp with your fingers.


Thanks, I'll do that. I'm starting my cycle in about two weeks. I will create a new thread later one.

----------


## zigzagzig

I got my HCG today and I performed two distinct pregnancy tests using some drops from it. In both cases the results showed NO pregnancy. With this information, should I toss it away?

----------


## AestheticGenetics

> Outstanding again! Even though you picked on me.
> 
> People really have fat 6 inches from their navel?
> 
> pm coming your way.


It's called a mound bro and I think only girls have it

And thanks so much for this thread Austinite I've been a long time fan of yours and this really the information I needed to run HCG in my cycle even though it doesn't sound too exciting injecting boiled rat piss

----------


## cousinmuscles

> It's called a mound bro and I think only girls have it
> 
> And thanks so much for this thread Austinite I've been a long time fan of yours and this really the information I needed to run HCG in my cycle even though it doesn't sound too exciting injecting boiled rat piss


It's lyophilized no worries  :Smilie:

----------


## Maxgonzo

"HCG is not as "fragile" as most of us are led to believe. If you prefer to minimize injections, you can combine your steroid compounds with hCG into the same syringe and inject. The only real way to destroy hCG is by freezing and thawing pre-loaded/premixed syringes, as the ice crystals tend to destroy the proteins. If you decide to freeze your mixed hCG, be sure not to re-freeze it, ever."

Sorry if someone else answered this later down the thread - but if I reconstitute, then freeze the remainder, is it ok to thaw out what I need for the week or will freezing it destroy the potency of the HCG? Or does the above comment mean that I shouldn't freeze, thaw, and then re-freeze?

----------


## Vinnie214

question, must I really 100% use insulin syringes for hcg or can I use my regular ones with a 25g needle for intramuscular injection?

----------


## charger69

> question, must I really 100% use insulin syringes for hcg or can I use my regular ones with a 25g needle for intramuscular injection?


Your getting it! 
You can use the 25 g. HCG is water based and some say not to mix water and oil. I mix my hCG with the AAS. I have never had problems. I also make mine more concentrated so it is very little that I am injecting to get the 250.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## Vinnie214

> Your getting it! 
> You can use the 25 g. HCG is water based and some say not to mix water and oil. I mix my hCG with the AAS. I have never had problems. I also make mine more concentrated so it is very little that I am injecting to get the 250.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Okay that's good, saves me a bit of money. If you mix it with an oil based compound like test, wouldn't that make it really thick and hard to draw-pin into a 25g or am I wrong?

Thanks

----------


## The Deadlifting Dog

> Okay that's good, saves me a bit of money. If you mix it with an oil based compound like test, wouldn't that make it really thick and hard to draw-pin into a 25g or am I wrong?
> 
> Thanks


Vinnie, you still need bac water.
You don't mix the oil with the hCG powder.
You mix bac water with the hCG.

Once the hCG is prepared you can then draw both the AAS and the hCG into the same syringe.

----------


## charger69

> Vinnie, you still need bac water.
> You don't mix the oil with the hCG powder.
> You mix bac water with the hCG.
> 
> Once the hCG is prepared you can then draw both the AAS and the hCG into the same syringe.


What he said. Sorry for the confusion. Bac water is dirt cheap.

----------


## Vinnie214

> Vinnie, you still need bac water.
> You don't mix the oil with the hCG powder.
> You mix bac water with the hCG.
> 
> Once the hCG is prepared you can then draw both the AAS and the hCG into the same syringe.


Oh lol sorry I got confused. At least I don't need to buy insulin needles I guess. I think I'll just inject them seperately, less room for mistakes  :Smilie:  

Thanks

----------


## PrimoCyp25

Awsome write up, damn things changed what we knew about these things 20.years back

----------


## narcolepticshark

This was awesome. I finally understand. Thanks.

----------

