# GENERAL FORUM > IN THE NEWS >  WTF is up with N. Korea?

## D7M

In case you're completely oblivious: 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...ence_with.html

WASHINGTON -- The U.S. scrambled to contain deadly off-shore artillery duels between North and South Korea yesterday to prevent an escalation across the worlds most heavily-fortified border.

I want to ensure you that this is isolated to the Northwest Island area, Gen. Walter L. Sharp, commander of the 8th Army and combined U.S. and South Korean forces, said in a message to the 28,000 U.S. troops poised near the De-Militarized Zone.

But South Korean President Lee Myung-bak, after meeting with his generals in an underground bunker in Seoul, put his military on high alert and ordered the air force to take out North Korean missile bases if the North renewed the attack.

Two South Korean marines were killed, and at least 16 other military personnel and three civilians were wounded when the North unleashed an hour-long artillery barrage in mid-afternoon on Yeonpyeong Island in contested waters off South Koreas west coast.

About 50 rounds hit the island, destroying several structures and setting fires in the hillsides, and dozens more fell in the sea, South Korean news agencies said.

South Korean batteries responded with about 80 rounds of 155 mm long-range artillery that raked North Korean coastal areas, and Seoul also scrambled F16 fighter-bombers to fly over the island.

I thought I would die, said Lee Chun-ok, 54, an islander who said she was watching TV in her home when the shelling began and blasted away a door and a wall. I was really, really terrified, she told The Associated Press after being evacuated to the port city of Incheon.

Several analysts speculated that the latest incident was an attempt by the North to force an easing of economic sanctions and also gain support for the succession to power of Kim Jong-un, the 26-year-old son of dictator Kim Jong-il.

My guess is that the North Koreans would like to keep everyone else off-balance while they sort out problems at home, said Boston University analyst Michael Corgan.

When the North Korean barrage commenced, South Korean naval forces had been conducting live-fire exercises on and around Pyongyeong Island, home to about 1,600 fishermen, and about 1,000 military personnel.

National Security Adviser Tom Donilon woke up President Obama at 3:54 a.m. to tell him of the attacks that United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon called one of the gravest incidents since the end of the Korean War in 1953.

Obama later convened a White House session including Defense Secretary Robert Gates, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and the Joint Chiefs of Staff to deal with the crisis, but the initial U.S. response appeared to be a form of wait-and-see.

We're going to take a measured and unified approach, said State Department spokesman Mark Toner.

Weve seen this story before, said Toner, referring to periodic attacks by the North at sea or along the DMZ.

Toner called the North Korean action an unprovoked military attack while the Norths official news agency issued a typically blustering statement charging that the South fired first.

Pyongyang threatened more strikes if the South crossed its maritime border by even 0.001 millimeter, according to the Norths official Korean Central News Agency.

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## Times Roman

lived in korea shortly after president parke was assignated. not sure if you remember that or not, it's been awhile. guys get hit all the time over there, but since no CNN, you never hear about it over here

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## Times Roman

btw... not surprised about N. Korea. Very paranoid, and they always do stupid crap anytime they have structural changes in their power base.

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## muscle_dysmorphia

both N. & S. Korea station 2 million troops on either side of the boarder. It is considered to be the most militarized boarder crossing on Earth.

if this war breaks out, it will be the most horrific loss of HUMAN life in generations. 

This would not be a war with low casualties. The proximity and hatred between the two countries makes that outcome impossible.

That is why the US has already sent military officials to keep secure/prep for more shellings. 

Scary times...

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## terraj

The pressure has been building up since the Nth sank the Sth Navy boat a couple of months back. There has not been much conflict of late, in fact the recent actions of the Nth are a slap in the face and wake up call to the younger generation of Sth Koreans.


Korean fun fact -66 percent are Christian.

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## Times Roman

Seoul is (60 miles?) very close to the boarder. Neither side can really afford to go to war. it would be catastrophic for either. Right now, like always, it's saber rattling, with whatever general "de jure" is trying to make a statement for themselves. the north may not be as centralized as they would like us to think. Generals over there may have more power than the generals we have, and Il has to keep em all happy, which is why sometimes they have to do crazy things, as a show of force. I don't completely understand it, but I give a low probability of war. More likely it will be a bargaining chip for future concessions by US to N Korea. (As always)

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## MACHINE5150

the North have this Nazi like mentality that they are a superior race and the rest of the world is inferior and "white washed" by western society.. that is how he keeps his power.. North Korea and Iran need to be knocked senseless.. it is just a matter of time before we all go to war with them both

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## stevey_6t9

^^ defiently,

ill give it a few years and war will break out again, stupid north koreans cant even afford to feed themselves yet go to war successfully.

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## muscle_dysmorphia

Ya it's pretty outrageous. 

What you have to keep in mind is that South Korea is still technically at war with North Korea since their prior conflict ended in an armistice, not a peace treaty.

That's huge... they are two waring states right now theoretically. and have been for the past decades. (again theoretically.) 

With the amount of trade embargoes to N. Korea it is shocking that they can even support such a population/army.

But then again, if one increases the price of military force (meaning spending more money on military) the net effect is a decrease in the total income per capita, and decrease in population size.

N. Korea is the perfect modernized example of this trend.

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## Flagg

It doesn't matter one iota wether N.Korea is self sufficient or not because it's all about that lunatic egomaniac, King Dong or whatever the pricks name is. 

As long as he is eating, to Hell with everything else. You know, he kidnaps people and then forces them to partake in "movies". Nevermind approaching actors. 

And again, it's irrelivant if N.Korea cannot afford to go to war, because King Dong is incharge. I heard his physical health has been called into question lately and it would not surprise me if he decided to Nuke the South or attack Japan, simply to get his name in the history books. 

People can forget the economic state of N.Korea when a delusional nutjob is in charge.

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## Public Enemy

Even though North Korea acts like it has nothing to lose and wants a war with the South, they don't. They know that might be able to wipe Seoul out but the US would level them out. Both sides would be losers. The current condition suits them. Whatever the case, I think the US has no business to get involved since another war would be incredibly costly, especially with military powers such as N. Korea and/or Iran. The North Koreans have x10 the motivation to unify Korea under their wing then the South or the United States. They would fight until the last Jong-il loyalist is down since they do not know any better and the death toll would be huge. Too huge for the American public to endure. Probably the deadliest war of the 21st century. I am not even going to mention what a war would Iran would mean.

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## eastbaylivin510

Wow I see a lot of people blindly following this western media and their campaign of demonizing a country for not adhearing to the capitalist system of oppression. south korea in actuality was the first to start the recent set of attacks and taunts with u.s. backed war games and mobilizations of troops towards north korea. Read up and learn through contacts what is really going on comrades!

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## zabster151

i think the old man will shoot a nuke right, before he dies. he is as old as dirt why not from his perspective. nothing to lose

never know,

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## stevey_6t9

> i think the old man will shoot a nuke right, before he dies. he is as old as dirt why not from his perspective. nothing to lose
> 
> never know,


its a conspiracy ay zab lol

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## SlimJoe

There main man has a screw loose

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## Tigershark

> lived in korea shortly after president parke was assignated. not sure if you remember that or not, it's been awhile. guys get hit all the time over there, but since no CNN, you never hear about it over here


Exactly. Was stationed in Korea from 91-92. Seen quite a few rounds get fired while on the DMZ.

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## zabster151

> its a conspiracy ay zab lol


nope, just a crazy old man with a nuke and a button, :Evil2:

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## BgMc31

IMO, Both N. Korea and Iran and acting out because the US is still involved in two wars (even though we are technically no longer involved in military operations in Iraq). They know that we cannot fight wars on additional fronts. If we weren't involved in Afghanistan and Iraq, neither country would be acting out at the extent they are doing now.

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## zabster151

> IMO, Both N. Korea and Iran and acting out because the US is still involved in two wars (even though we are technically no longer involved in military operations in Iraq)*???????? what are you talking about* . They know that we cannot fight wars on additional fronts.*we are tapped out because of the operations in iraq* If we weren't involved in Afghanistan and Iraq,*you just said we we are no longer involved in military operation ?* neither country would be acting out at the extent they are doing now.


all because they say we are out of iraq means nothing, you think we seriously just up and left after all that.

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## MuscleScience

> all because they say we are out of iraq means nothing, you think we seriously just up and left after all that.


I think you completely missed his point. 

Anyway,

For god sakes we are still in, Japan, Guam, Germany, Italy, South Korea Ect ect. We will never leave any of those countries that we have occupied. For all intents and purposes we have a global empire. Why must we still have occupation forces in countries such as Germany and Japan. Lets be real, they are occupation forces. We don't have British or German Or Australia bases in the US. The War on Terror is in its 10th year in Afghanistan. It took us a total of 4 years to destroy two of the greatest military's the world had seen to date. Not to mention a population of people (Japanese) that were so determined to fight, that they would rather jump off a cliff than be captured or attack a machine gun nest with nothing but a sword to kill the enemy at all cost.

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## terraj

> I think you completely missed his point. 
> 
> Anyway,
> 
> For god sakes we are still in, Japan, Guam, Germany, Italy, South Korea Ect ect. We will never leave any of those countries that we have occupied. For all intents and purposes we have a global empire. Why must we still have occupation forces in countries such as Germany and Japan. Lets be real, they are occupation forces. We don't have British or German Or Australia bases in the US. The War on Terror is in its 10th year in Afghanistan. It took us a total of 4 years to destroy two of the greatest military's the world had seen to date. *Not to mention a population of people (Japanese) that were so determined to fight, that they would rather jump off a cliff than be captured or attack* a machine gun nest with nothing but a sword to kill the enemy at all cost.


Yeah...kind of the way it played out. The people of Okinawa were the ones famous for jumping to their death, they were fed info from the Japanese soldiers about how the US soldiers would rape and kill them....so they took that appeared to be the best way out. "There are many Okinawans who have testified that the Japanese Army directed them to commit suicide. There are also people who have testified that they were handed grenades by Japanese soldiers" to blow themselves up".
"Civilians and historians report that soldiers on both sides had raped Okinawan civilians during the battle. Rape by Japanese troops "became common" in June, after it became clear that the Japanese Army had been defeated.[6][33] One Okinawan historian has estimated there were more than 10,000 rapes of Okinawan women by American troops during the three month campaign"
The Okinawans were stuck between the Japanese and US forces and truely fvcked by both sides. They are referred to as Okinawans and still many consider themseves Okinawans over Japanese because up until 1870s they were an independent nation called the Ryūkyū Kingdom, then becames part of the US after the war before been returned to Japan in the 1970s.
A real pretty place and great people.

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## terraj

......

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## terraj

> I think you completely missed his point. 
> 
> Anyway,
> 
> For god sakes we are still in, Japan, Guam, Germany, Italy, South Korea Ect ect. We will never leave any of those countries that we have occupied. For all intents and purposes we have a global empire. Why must we still have occupation forces in countries such as Germany and Japan. Lets be real, they are occupation forces. We don't have British or German Or Australia bases in the US. The War on Terror is in its 10th year in Afghanistan. It took us a total of 4 years to destroy two of the greatest military's the world had seen to date. *Not to mention a population of people (Japanese) that were so determined to fight, that they would rather jump off a cliff than be captured or attack* a machine gun nest with nothing but a sword to kill the enemy at all cost.


Yeah...kind of the way it played out. The people of Okinawa were the ones famous for jumping to their death, they were fed info from the Japanese soldiers about how the US soldiers would rape and kill them....so they took that appeared to be the best way out. "There are many Okinawans who have testified that the Japanese Army directed them to commit suicide. There are also people who have testified that they were handed grenades by Japanese soldiers" to blow themselves up".
"Civilians and historians report that soldiers on both sides had raped Okinawan civilians during the battle. Rape by Japanese troops "became common" in June, after it became clear that the Japanese Army had been defeated.[6][33] One Okinawan historian has estimated there were more than 10,000 rapes of Okinawan women by American troops during the three month campaign"
The Okinawans were stuck between the Japanese and US forces and truely fvcked by both sides. They are referred to as Okinawans and still many consider themseves Okinawans over Japanese, up until 1870s they were an independent nation called the Ryūkyū Kingdom, then became part of the US after the war before been returned to Japan in the 1970s.
A real pretty place and great people with a shitty history.

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## MuscleScience

> Yeah...kind of the way it played out. The people of Okinawa were the ones famous for jumping to their death, they were fed info from the Japanese soldiers about how the US soldiers would rape and kill them....so they took that appeared to be the best way out. "There are many Okinawans who have testified that the Japanese Army directed them to commit suicide. There are also people who have testified that they were handed grenades by Japanese soldiers" to blow themselves up".
> "Civilians and historians report that soldiers on both sides had raped Okinawan civilians during the battle. Rape by Japanese troops "became common" in June, after it became clear that the Japanese Army had been defeated.[6][33] One Okinawan historian has estimated there were more than 10,000 rapes of Okinawan women by American troops during the three month campaign"
> The Okinawans were stuck between the Japanese and US forces and truely fvcked by both sides. They are referred to as Okinawans and still many consider themseves Okinawans over Japanese, up until 1870s they were an independent nation called the Ryūkyū Kingdom, then became part of the US after the war before been returned to Japan in the 1970s.
> A real pretty place and great people with a shitty history.


I am a huge history buff, I particularly like reading historical accounts from the "other side" because its really true what they say about history is written by the victors. War is a terrible thing, and when as a person you are taught to look at someone else as an object or thing. Its seems to become easier to commit terrible acts because its just a part of the war. Okinawa is one place on my places to visit before I die.

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## terraj

True words mate^^

You would dig Okinawa....

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## Tigershark

The biggest problem with North Korea is the people there want peace and the people running the place know it. That is why they will pull these stunts with crossing the DMZ or saying they will make nuclear weapons. It is so America will say "Well lets go see what North Korea wants Now." They are like spoiled little brats over there.

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## zabster151

> I think you completely missed his point. 
> 
> Anyway,
> 
> For god sakes we are still in, Japan, Guam, Germany, Italy, South Korea Ect ect. We will never leave any of those countries that we have occupied. For all intents and purposes we have a global empire. Why must we still have occupation forces in countries such as Germany and Japan. Lets be real, they are occupation forces. We don't have British or German Or Australia bases in the US. The War on Terror is in its 10th year in Afghanistan. It took us a total of 4 years to destroy two of the greatest military's the world had seen to date. Not to mention a population of people (Japanese) that were so determined to fight, that they would rather jump off a cliff than be captured or attack a machine gun nest with nothing but a sword to kill the enemy at all cost.



i missed nothing i completly understand what he said. it still makes no sense,,


this make absolutely no sense. of course these countries now were we are stationed. thats not the big deal the fact that we are staioned in so many countries policing the globe.(wich is not are job) we impose are will on other countries.

IMO, Both N. Korea and Iran and acting out because the US is still involved in two wars (even though we are technically no longer involved in military operations in Iraq)???????? what are you talking about. They know that we cannot fight wars on additional fronts.we are tapped out because of the operations in iraq If we weren't involved in Afghanistan and Iraq,you just said we we are no longer involved in military operation ? neither country would be acting out at the extent they are doing now.


the best part about all of this is that we are running very low on oil actually are peak reserve was in 2007. so that begin said we will have to pull out of this dumbass war because we cant afford it anymore..or policing other countries. i hate to say it but the USA is going to fall flat on its face in the next year or 2 china and the saudis are the new rulers America.is going to be left behind like fat useless society we are. we are a greedy dumb nation.

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## BgMc31

There you go again, Zabster, simply because you don't understand my point, it doesn't make sense?

You missed my point, and judging from your other posts on other threads, you are so dogmatic in your point of view you'll never understand anyone else's point. If Musclescience understood my point, how does it not make sense? Simply because you don't agree with it?  :Aajack: 

As usual it makes no sense to debate with you. Because an effective debate is based on the ability of BOTH sides to see each other's points. But you are incapable of that.

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## zabster151

> There you go again, Zabster, simply because you don't understand my point, it doesn't make sense?
> 
> You missed my point, and judging from your other posts on other threads, you are so dogmatic in your point of view you'll never understand anyone else's point. If Musclescience understood my point, how does it not make sense? Simply because you don't agree with it? 
> 
> As usual it makes no sense to debate with you. Because an effective debate is based on the ability of BOTH sides to see each other's points. But you are incapable of that.


all because he thinks it makes sense does not mean it does.


IMO, Both N. Korea and Iran and acting out because the US is still involved in two wars (even though we are technically no longer involved in military operations in Iraq). [/B] we are you just do not know we are still there because its not talked about [/B]. They know that we cannot fight wars on additional fronts. *duh every country knows we are tapped out from the Iraq war*  If we weren't involved in Afghanistan and Iraq, neither country would be acting out at the extent they are doing now.*not necessarily north Korea and Saudi Arabia have had nuklier intention for 20-30 years now its just easier since its pretty clear the US is tapped out*


im very open for debat you just say thing that are either wrong or i do not agree with what your saying.

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## Flagg

Zabster is right about one thing, with King Dongs health being called into question, and the fact the guy is utterly delusional to go along with his side order of insanity, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest of him lobbing a nuke at S Korea or Japan, simply because _he_ believes it would make him immortal in death in the history books.

EDIT: Nevermind the US hitting its personal peak oil reserves, the whole planet will heat peak oil by 2050. And by then we'll have a population of 9-12 billion. I certainly hope we have some good technology by then because resources are going to be scarce. Fresh water by then will become MUCH more valuable than oil.

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## zabster151

> Zabster is right about one thing, with King Dongs health being called into question, and the fact the guy is utterly delusional to go along with his side order of insanity, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest of him lobbing a nuke at S Korea or Japan, simply because _he_ believes it would make him immortal in death in the history books.
> 
> EDIT: Nevermind the US hitting its personal peak oil reserves, the whole planet will heat peak oil by 2050. And by then we'll have a population of 9-12 billion. I certainly hope we have some good technology by then because resources are going to be scarce. Fresh water by then will become MUCH more valuable than oil.


my bad, i did not mean to say US oil Supply. i meant global oil reserve will be almost done around 2036-2040

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