# GENERAL FORUM > IN THE NEWS >  israel and the white phosphorus use....guilty or not guilty

## Dinosaur

cnn news confirms that israel has indeed used a deadly weapon known as white phosphorus, yet they got away with it.
i don't have a prejudice against no side here, just standing for the truth that's all. if you want to comment, please do but, with respect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQWl_uQKxOI

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## amcon

i am almost sure the un reviewed taps and said it was used appropriatly - is banned, how ever it can be used in certain ways... 

seems like something to stay away from tho

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## gator_mclusky

I feel for the civilians but Hamas is an evil organization and Israel got sick and tired of them lobbing rockets into their neighborhoods after giving the Palestinians the Gaza Strip. The Palestinians get their land and the thanks Israel gets are rockets in their backyards!

gator

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## Dinosaur

^^^ you know i've been following this story very closely and to be honest the problem this time was not hamas. hamas was only a card they used to attack gaza.

they tried to collaborate with the fatah party in order to eliminate the hamas party cause it was standing in middle of the way like a pebble in the throat. that could not be swollowed so the only way to wipe them out was to cook up a story, and see if that is ganna win the hearts and minds of people to strike this small town. of course it worked but not for long. what a good timing they chose, it was the best ever.
i just can't stand the killing of innocent people what ever the circumstances are.
if you have something against them then invite them to an open place and use whatever dirty weapon you want to use. cause excessive force will only beget excessive hate.

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## JiGGaMaN

> cnn news confirms that israel has indeed used a deadly weapon known as white phosphorus, yet they got away with it.
> *i don't have a prejudice against no side here*, just standing for the truth that's all. if you want to comment, please do but, with respect.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQWl_uQKxOI


sigh, by virtue of your name you are biased. dont think that bullshit will slip by me:

Chariff = a sunni muslim name
Hamas ideology = sunni muslim

hmmm, any conflict of interest here??? no? lets look a little further into theory of prejudice:
Terror management theory (nothing to do with terrorism)

Solomon, Greenberg and Pyszczynski (1999) in their terror management theory proposed that people have a need for self-preservation which is raised and frustrated by their awareness of the inevitability of their own death. *To deal with their mortality, people adopt a cultural world view that imbues subjective reality with stability and permanence and provides standards of value against which judgments of self-esteem can be made. According to Terror management theory, people evaluate in-group members positively because similar others are assumed to support, and therefore validate, their own cultural world view; in contrast, they evaluate out-group members negatively because dissimilar others are assumed to threaten their world view.* There is extensive evidence that people show greater intergroup bias when they are made aware of their own mortality (Florian & Mikulincer, 1998).

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## BuffedGuy

Jiggaman and other pro-Israeli supporters: I am going to ask you a question that I hope you can answer honestly. Just for once I want an honest answer. Let's say that Hamas used white phosphorous on Israeli territory. Do you think that you would be defending its usage then, or would you automatically start using that as a proof for invading Hamas held territory? Please show some honesty when answering.

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## BuffedGuy

> sigh, by virtue of your name you are biased. dont think that bullshit will slip by me:
> 
> Chariff = a sunni muslim name
> Hamas ideology = sunni muslim
> 
> hmmm, any conflict of interest here??? no? l


Yeah, and you're Jewish. See how almost everything you say can be used against you? Almost *all* of the arguments you have furthered on this forum about Israel can be reversed. You just don't see it. But anyways, please answer my above question about if Hamas used white phosphorous. Please don't ignore the question because I have a nagging suspicion that you will try to evade the question.

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## BuffedGuy

> I feel for the civilians but Hamas is an evil organization and Israel got sick and tired of them lobbing rockets into their neighborhoods after giving the Palestinians the Gaza Strip. The Palestinians get their land and the thanks Israel gets are rockets in their backyards!
> 
> gator


The IDF is more of an evil organization. I don't know why so few people know this (well, obviously because of the media) but the IDF was formed from Jewish terrorist groups like the Haganah, Stern Gang, Lehi, and Irgun. They were literally terrorist groups that blew up buildings full of civilians. The Irgun, with the sanction of Haganah, blew up the King David Hotel by placing a bomb in the basement; almost 100 people were killed. These were British people they killed, not us third class Muslims. 

This is the history of where the IDF comes from, and the legacy they continue to this day. They now just have better weapons, so they don't need to use such tactics. They can drop bombs from the skies and fire missiles into peoples' homes from apache helicopters.

You know, you talk about how the Israelis were sick of being attacked with rockets. It's so horribly one-sided of you: aren't the Palestinian people sick of their houses being torpedoed by apache helicopters? Can you imagine waking up one day and seeing an apache helicopter outside your window firing rockets inside your home? I mean, what kind of a people do such things?! Aren't the Palestinian people sick of their homes being bull-dozed down?  What kind of tyrannical people use bulldozers to destroy the homes of the natives? Imagine if someone bull-dozed your house down. I don't think you ever imagine this, because unfortunately to many Westerners we Muslims are not people.

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## Dinosaur

> sigh, by virtue of your name you are biased. dont think that bullshit will slip by me:


it is very ironic of you to talk about my name and forget the real subject you need to talk about.

*wether iam muslim or not that's not the issue, unless you have something against muslims. this is ridiculous comment to make.*

iam not afraid in any shape or form from no one to hide my identity iam very proud of my name. in matter of fact, the name i use in this site is the same name of my e-mail, just reminder.

you always missread my posts nothing unusual here. if you remember reading my post i clearly said you can comment but with respect. if not, i don't need your comment keep it to your self.

now to put me under that equetion of yours by saying:

chariff = a sunni name. by the way its *charrif* not charrif. 

i could return fire with fire by saying this:

jiggaman= zionist jew

zionist ideology= zionist jew.

lets not get there, i don't state anything from my own mind i speak what i see if you can refute what i said please bring your prove or else be my guest.






> Solomon, Greenberg and Pyszczynski (1999) in their terror management theory proposed that people have a need for self-preservation which is raised and frustrated by their awareness of the inevitability of their own death. To deal with their mortality, people adopt a cultural world view that imbues subjective reality with stability and permanence and provides standards of value against which judgments of self-esteem can be made. According to Terror management theory, people evaluate in-group members positively because similar others are assumed to support, and therefore validate, their own cultural world view; in contrast, they evaluate out-group members negatively because dissimilar others are assumed to threaten their world view. There is extensive evidence that people show greater intergroup bias when they are made aware of their own mortality (Florian & Mikulincer, 1998).


don't get off the subject by bringing a quotation of your extremist book writers. bring me something of your own. you always seem to dodge the subject and talk about irrelevant stuff that has nothing to do with subject waht so ever.
i will be waiting for your reply. eventhough, i know that you are not ganna bring anything new.

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## amcon

> Jiggaman and other pro-Israeli supporters: I am going to ask you a question that I hope you can answer honestly. Just for once I want an honest answer. Let's say that Hamas used white phosphorous on Israeli territory. Do you think that you would be defending its usage then, or would you automatically start using that as a proof for invading Hamas held territory? Please show some honesty when answering.


un said it was used with in the guidlines... from videos of its dispursement

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## amcon

> Yeah, and you're Jewish. See how almost everything you say can be used against you? Almost *all* of the arguments you have furthered on this forum about Israel can be reversed. You just don't see it. But anyways, please answer my above question about if Hamas used white phosphorous. Please don't ignore the question because I have a nagging suspicion that you will try to evade the question.


jiggaman is a jewish name?

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## amcon

> it is very ironic of you to talk about my name and forget the real subject you need to talk about.
> 
> *wether iam muslim or not that's not the issue, unless you have something against muslims. this is ridiculous comment to make.*
> 
> iam not afraid in any shape or form from no one to hide my identity iam very proud of my name. in matter of fact, the name i use in this site is the same name of my e-mail, just reminder.
> 
> you always missread my posts nothing unusual here. if you remember reading my post i clearly said you can comment but with respect. if not, i don't need your comment keep it to your self.
> 
> now to put me under that equetion of yours by saying:
> ...


the only point he was making was is you maybe a little one sided - you said you wernt

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## Dinosaur

> un said it was used with in the guidlines... from videos of its dispursement


so i might conclude that those people were burnt within the giudlines.

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## *RAGE*

> Jiggaman and other pro-Israeli supporters: *I am not a complet pro Israeli suppoter*I am going to ask you a question that I hope you can answer honestly. Just for once I want an honest answer. *I dont understand what an honest answer is unless it agree with what you say*Let's say that Hamas used white phosphorous on Israeli territory. *White phosphorous is in several weapons, but it does not just kill all boombs kill no matter what cause it so you can not say what if Hamas uses white phosphorous because the gun powder in the there rocket kill just the same.*Do you think that you would be defending its usage then, or would you automatically start using that as a proof for invading Hamas held territory? *Hamas does not have territory, Hamas is a terrious group Palistinian has territory*Please show some honesty when answering.


*one more thing phosphorous kill people and burns people. rockets fired by Hamas kill people and burns people just the same. no mater what is in the rocket you are just as dead.*

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## amcon

> so i might conclude that those people were burnt within the giudlines.


dude i didnt follow it past what the un said... i would have to believe that they are def not pro israel, at least to the point of letting them use that stuff the wrong way.

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## Dinosaur

> the only point he was making was is you maybe a little one sided - you said you wernt



no, with all due respect to your opinion he has this problem with me since. well, today i figured why he has this rage against me simply because of my name. 
also today i came to find out that the boy is a jew.

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## amcon

> *one more thing phosphorous kill people and burns people. rockets fired by Hamas kill people and burns people just the same. no mater what is in the rocket you are just as dead.*


very good point,

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## amcon

dont justify either side, cause both are wrong (we all should agree on that) but one def will stop the other...

did israel pull out and give the land back?

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## amcon

> no, with all due respect to your opinion he has this problem with me since. well, today i figured why he has this rage against me simply because of my name. 
> also today i came to find out that the boy is a jew.


im not a jew, but i dont side with hamas... and i do think israel is wrong to kill people if it were unjustified

is defending your self justified...

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## gator_mclusky

> The IDF is more of an evil organization. I don't know why so few people know this (well, obviously because of the media) but the IDF was formed from Jewish terrorist groups like the Haganah, Stern Gang, Lehi, and Irgun. They were literally terrorist groups that blew up buildings full of civilians. The Irgun, with the sanction of Haganah, blew up the King David Hotel by placing a bomb in the basement; almost 100 people were killed. These were British people they killed, not us third class Muslims. 
> 
> This is the history of where the IDF comes from, and the legacy they continue to this day. They now just have better weapons, so they don't need to use such tactics. They can drop bombs from the skies and fire missiles into peoples' homes from apache helicopters.
> 
> You know, you talk about how the Israelis were sick of being attacked with rockets. It's so horribly one-sided of you: aren't the Palestinian people sick of their houses being torpedoed by apache helicopters? Can you imagine waking up one day and seeing an apache helicopter outside your window firing rockets inside your home? I mean, what kind of a people do such things?! Aren't the Palestinian people sick of their homes being bull-dozed down? What kind of tyrannical people use bulldozers to destroy the homes of the natives? Imagine if someone bull-dozed your house down. I don't think you ever imagine this, because unfortunately to many Westerners we Muslims are not people.


The Palestinians ELECTED Hamas. They elected a Terrorist group that hides out in Schools and Mosque and rocket Israel.

Israel is our strongest ally and Nuclear deterrent in the Middle East. Without them....Iran would control the Middle East.

The Palestinians burn our Flag and hate us even after we funnel millions and millions of dollars to them and convince Israel to give up the Gaza Strip and Israel gets rockets shot their way in return.

Israel made a statement and if Hamas has any intelligence.....they will back off and let the Israelis live in peace.

Respectively,

Gator

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## amcon

> The Palestinians ELECTED Hamas. They elected a Terrorist group that hides out in Schools and Mosque and rocket Israel.
> 
> Israel is our strongest ally and Nuclear deterrent in the Middle East. Without them....Iran would control the Middle East.
> 
> The Palestinians burn our Flag and hate us even after we funnel millions and millions of dollars to them and convince Israel to give up the Gaza Strip and Israel gets rockets shot their way in return.
> 
> Israel made a statement and if Hamas has any intelligence.....they will back off and let the Israelis live in peace.
> 
> Respectively,
> ...


good point again, that makes all the sence to me

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## *RAGE*

> The Palestinians ELECTED Hamas. They elected a Terrorist group that hides out in Schools and Mosque and rocket Israel.
> 
> Israel is our strongest ally and Nuclear deterrent in the Middle East. Without them....Iran would control the Middle East.
> 
> The Palestinians burn our Flag and hate us even after we funnel millions and millions of dollars to them and convince Israel to give up the Gaza Strip and Israel gets rockets shot their way in return.
> 
> Israel made a statement and if Hamas has any intelligence.....they will back off and let the Israelis live in peace.
> 
> Respectively,
> ...



Yes great post and great point thank you

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## BuffedGuy

I love how you guys claim to be "neutral" when you are anything but. "Oh we're for neither side, but Israel is always right and Palestinians are always wrong!"

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## BuffedGuy

> The Palestinians ELECTED Hamas. They elected a Terrorist group that hides out in Schools and Mosque and rocket Israel.


You ignored what I said. The IDF is a terrorist group as well, and all Israelis (minus those with exemptions) are supposed to serve in it. The IDF was formed from the Haganah, and joined by the Stern Gang, Lehi, and Irgun...all of which were terrorist groups in the real sense of the word.




> Israel is our strongest ally and Nuclear deterrent in the Middle East. Without them....Iran would control the Middle East.


Is it not strange that you guys have a problem with Middle Easterners controlling the Middle East, lol? America controls America. Shouldn't Middle Easterners control the Middle East? 

As for Iran, no, it wouldn't have controlled the Middle East. Iraq was much more powerful than Iran, until America destroyed it.




> The Palestinians burn our Flag and hate us even after we funnel millions and millions of dollars to them and convince Israel to give up the Gaza Strip and Israel gets rockets shot their way in return.


Why shouldn't they burn the American flag? The Americans pay billions of dollars to Israel, and give billions of dollars in military weaponry to Israel. The missiles that land on Palestinian heads say "made in the USA". As for giving millions and millions of dollars to Palestine, this is an outright lie: US law prohibits giving aid to the Palestinian government. The United States not only does not give money, but it freezes accounts and forbids other nations from sending money. So again, thank you very much.

As for giving up the Gaza strip, last time I checked the Gaza strip is still not an independent country. Instead, it's a reservation, surrounded on all sides by an Israeli blockade, and starved to death. So thank you very much!




> Israel made a statement and if Hamas has any intelligence.....they will back off and let the Israelis live in peace.


During the ceasefire, no Hamas rockets were fired and Israel was living in peace. As soon as Israel broke the ceasefire and attacked Gaza, Hamas started launching rockets again.

So understand this: peace does not come from war. Peace comes from peace.

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## Dinosaur

> im not a jew, but i dont side with hamas... and i do think israel is wrong to kill people if it were unjustified
> 
> is defending your self justified...


i hear you, the question should be? under what circumstances are you defending your self? 
my concern is why the excessive force? i completely understand the self defence mechanism but don't use the ideology of kill one to warn hundred. 
i have no problem against no nation i just want to see everybody living in peace but to do that it takes genuine intentions.
i know that this conflict has been going on for years, and we can go on and on but that's not my point, my point is to show any nation or contry no matter their mistakes so they can learn from it by correcting it, by teaching their people to leave in peace, by standing up for the right thing even if its ganna be against my own govenment.

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## BuffedGuy

Amnesty International says that there is:
 "indisputable evidence of widespread use of white phosphorus *in densely-populated residential areas* in Gaza City...Israel's use during the Gaza offensive of white phosphorus- banned under international law for use near civilians-was 'clear and undeniable'...Its repeated use in this manner, despite evidence of its indiscriminate effects and its toll on civilians, *is a war crime."*

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/israe...niable-amnesty

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## BuffedGuy

Since the pro-Israeli party could not answer the question I asked about if Hamas used white phosphorous, I would like to ask another question:

You say that "Israel was making a point" and now "maybe Hamas won't fire rockets". So you are saying that killing indiscriminately to make a point is ok. What is the difference between this and Al-Qaeda's methodology? Usama bin Ladin has *specifically* said that he will keep killing Americans indiscriminately until they "get the point" and "stop killing Muslims indiscriminately." So what is the difference between your pro-Israeli view and Al-Qaeda's view? 

How on earth is it ok to kill indiscriminately to make a point? That's terrorism, LITERALLY.

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## Dinosaur

> good point again, that makes all the sence to me


*i thought you said you are not one sided.*

so just because they are an ally to america it gives them the right to "denfend " them selves with whatever weapon that can do the job.

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## BuffedGuy

> *i thought you said you are not one sided.*
> 
> so just because they are an ally to america it gives them the right to "denfend " them selves with whatever weapon that can do the job.


Literally *anything* they do is defense.

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## Matt

> The Palestinians ELECTED Hamas. They elected a Terrorist group that hides out in Schools and Mosque and rocket Israel.
> 
> Israel is our strongest ally and Nuclear deterrent in the Middle East. Without them....Iran would control the Middle East.
> 
> The Palestinians burn our Flag and hate us even after we funnel millions and millions of dollars to them and convince Israel to give up the Gaza Strip and Israel gets rockets shot their way in return.
> 
> Israel made a statement and if Hamas has any intelligence.....they will back off and let the Israelis live in peace.
> 
> Respectively,
> ...


You do not know what you are talking about, if i was you id go and educate myself before making any more stupid posts...

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## Matt

> im not a jew, but i dont side with hamas... and i do think israel is wrong to kill people if it were unjustified
> 
> is defending your self justified...


Why is it ok for israel to defend themselves against Hamas but its not ok for Hamas to defend themselves...

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## Matt

> dont justify either side, cause both are wrong (we all should agree on that) but one def will stop the other...
> 
> did israel pull out and give the land back?


This is where you fall down amcon, read UN resolution 242...

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## Matt

> *one more thing phosphorous kill people and burns people. rockets fired by Hamas kill people and burns people just the same. no mater what is in the rocket you are just as dead.*


Prone you know aswell as i do, and lets not beat about the bush, we used white phosphorous in the forces, to cause as much physical and brutal damage to anyone who gets anywhere near the stuff. If i was to fire phosphorous rockets anywhere near a populated area then i know im going to kill and seriously injure many innocent people bro.

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## JiGGaMaN

> it is very ironic of you to talk about my name and forget the real subject you need to talk about.
> 
> *wether iam muslim or not that's not the issue, unless you have something against muslims. this is ridiculous comment to make.*
> 
> iam not afraid in any shape or form from no one to hide my identity iam very proud of my name. in matter of fact, the name i use in this site is the same name of my e-mail, just reminder.
> 
> you always missread my posts nothing unusual here. if you remember reading my post i clearly said you can comment but with respect. if not, i don't need your comment keep it to your self.
> 
> now to put me under that equetion of yours by saying:
> ...


I just wanted to point out to you the meaning of prejudice, and to show you that you are in fact prejudiced when you said you are not. I never said that didnt apply to myself. I used proper logic and reasoning to express my statement. It's apparent by your rebuttal that this is way over your head and a good waste of my time.

and to BuffedGuy, why would my opinion on a purely hypothetical situation have any real value to it?

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## Panzerfaust

> I feel for the civilians but Hamas is an evil organization and Israel got sick and tired of them lobbing rockets into their neighborhoods after giving the Palestinians the Gaza Strip. The Palestinians get their land and the thanks Israel gets are rockets in their backyards!
> 
> gator



Congratulations!

You receive the "Most Ignorant ****" of the decade award. 

Honest to god, you have no clue what you are even talking about. Please leave this thread. It is obvious you know nothing of the history behind these two and how this conflict came about.

You are either a troll or seriously one ignorant **** (as stated before).

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## BuffedGuy

> and to BuffedGuy, why would my opinion on a purely hypothetical situation have any real value to it?


It has obvious significance that any rational person can understand. Again, I ask you: if Hamas had used white phosphorous, what would have been you reaction?

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## Matt

> Congratulations!
> 
> You receive the "Most Ignorant ****" of the decade award. 
> 
> Honest to god, you have no clue what you are even talking about. Please leave this thread. It is obvious you know nothing of the history behind these two and how this conflict came about.
> 
> You are either a troll or seriously one ignorant **** (as stated before).


Lol i missed that one, fuvk thats about the dumbest thing ive heard on this board. I said earlier he should educate himself, he's well beyond that...

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## *RAGE*

> Prone you know aswell as i do, and lets not beat about the bush, we used white phosphorous in the forces, to cause as much physical and brutal damage to anyone who gets anywhere near the stuff. If i was to fire phosphorous rockets anywhere near a populated area then i know im going to kill and seriously injure many innocent people bro.


MAD MATT you are right as it does cause damage to where ever it is fired and I am not saying it should be used but all rockets cause damage to what ever they hit my point was dead is dead not matter what...I also need to change some other things I posted in this thread...

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## *RAGE*

> Yes great post and great point thank you


I must step away from my statment here because I read though this to fast and did not comp..what was being said and will make some admins..

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## *RAGE*

OK, I want to say we are stuck on this white phosphorous and what it can do. White phosphorous is a chemical that burns no matter what and can not be put out buy water and dirt will not touch it either. I did not look this up and am only talking from personal experience...Isreal is using this kind of weapon agains Hamas and yes yet again innocent peope are getting killed and injuried. I know most of you after reading some of my post do not think that I care but this is not true. I do care, I have nothing agains any palestinian and some times when I write it sounds like I do. Hamas are not all palestinian in their ranks but you have Iraqi's Iran's and ect. fighting this war...Sorry got of track the crude bombs that Hamas, (not talking about palestinians) have chemicals that do the same thing as white phosphorous its just a chemical name. I am sure some one is going to look this up and tell me all the chemical names and I do not know what I am talking about and so on, but yet again I am talking from what I have seen.....Now Isreal is shooting these bombs at Hamas strong holds, where Hamas does not have the technology for money to do this so when they shot a rocket it is inshallah (god will) on where it lands...I am sure Hamas would like the boom or rocket hit a military target. What I am saying is what it is shrapnel gases of phosphorous that injuries you or kills you you are just as f up and no matter what you call it..ps buffedguy i am not trying to start another discussion with you.....JMO

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## *RAGE*

Thanks MAD for putting that out there...

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## amcon

> so i might conclude that those people were burnt within the giudlines.


well, i would ask the un... not me i am just looking at the info from the right governing body and parotting the info... so no to you sarcasim and yes to you question

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## amcon

> I love how you guys claim to be "neutral" when you are anything but. "Oh we're for neither side, but Israel is always right and Palestinians are always wrong!"


who sais israel is right??? copy and paste that for us...

and we are just leveling the field form a info perspective if i listened to you israel would be considered devils, and hamas innocent humble people

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## amcon

> i hear you, the question should be? under what circumstances are you defending your self? 
> my concern is why the excessive force? i completely understand the self defence mechanism but don't use the ideology of kill one to warn hundred. 
> i have no problem against no nation i just want to see everybody living in peace but to do that it takes genuine intentions.
> i know that this conflict has been going on for years, and we can go on and on but that's not my point, my point is to show any nation or contry no matter their mistakes so they can learn from it by correcting it, by teaching their people to leave in peace, by standing up for the right thing even if its ganna be against my own govenment.



could we also apply that to hamas? if so i am all on board with you...

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## amcon

> Amnesty International says that there is:
>  "indisputable evidence of widespread use of white phosphorus *in densely-populated residential areas* in Gaza City...Israel's use during the Gaza offensive of white phosphorus- banned under international law for use near civilians-was 'clear and undeniable'...Its repeated use in this manner, despite evidence of its indiscriminate effects and its toll on civilians, *is a war crime."*
> 
> http://www.nowpublic.com/world/israe...niable-amnesty


the un gave their rulling after this article

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## *RAGE*

> who sais israel is right??? copy and paste that for us...
> 
> and we are just leveling the field form a info perspective if i listened to you israel would be considered devils, and hamas innocent humble people


I dont remember that either...

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## amcon

> *i thought you said you are not one sided.*
> 
> so just because they are an ally to america it gives them the right to "denfend " them selves with whatever weapon that can do the job.


i am not either sided, however i do think a nation (either side has a right to defend them selves)

dont add america in to this they have nothing to do with it... yes, they gave them money - but usa didnt aim the guns at any one

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## amcon

> Why is it ok for israel to defend themselves against Hamas but its not ok for Hamas to defend themselves...


they can defend them selves... go a head... no body said they couldnt, what they sould not do is terrorize them with 200+ rockets a day in to israel

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## BuffedGuy

> well, i would ask the un... not me i am just looking at the info from the right governing body and parotting the info... so no to you sarcasim and yes to you question


Why is it that the pro-Israeli supporters ignore the UN and call it Anti-Semitic when we mention the numerous UN resolutions passed against Israel? No other country in the world has received as many UN resolutions against it than Israel. But when Iraq flouts a UN resolution, then you all cry bloody mary, but when Israel flouts more than any other country on earth, suddenly you are silent as lambs?

And please don't say you are neutral; this is disingenuous and hurts your credibility instead of bolstering it as you think.

Anyways, can you please show us proof that the United Nations absolved Israel of the white phosphorous issue? All I have been able to find is:

UN accuses Israel of using white phosphorous

So please show us the proof of your claim.

As for authoritative bodies that have said that Israel committed a war crime by using white phosphorous, I have already posted the statements of Amnesty International, which is a very well-respected organization.

The truth is that many of you are bigots. I say this openly to you all, so that you may reflect upon your bigotry. If Muslims do something, then you run around with your heads chopped off crying blood mary. If Israel does the exact same thing, then you generate excuses and justifications for it. 

If Hamas had used white phosphorous, you would have been using it as a definitive proof for the evilness of Hamas. Yet when Israel does it, suddenly a different reaction. Why? This is bigotry, clear and simple. We Muslims are judged by another criterion. It is because your hearts hate us. You try to hide it with disclaimers and what not, but it shines through for all to see.

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## amcon

> This is where you fall down amcon, read UN resolution 242...


answer the question did israel give the land back? or not?

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## BuffedGuy

> they can defend them selves... go a head... no body said they couldnt, what they sould not do is terrorize them with 200+ rockets a day in to israel


I'm glad you are down to 200 rockets now. Unfortunately that is not accurate either. But I'm glad you have recanted from your previous erroneous view of 600 rockets. Maybe you will come down to reality eventually.

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## BuffedGuy

> answer the question did israel give the land back? or not?


No it did not. It is not an independent sovereign nation. That is what "giving land back" means. Not creating a reservation/Bantustan with no sovereignty. Not one inch of land has been given by Israel. Not a single inch of Palestinian land is sovereign. This is a reality.

----------


## amcon

> Congratulations!
> 
> You receive the "Most Ignorant ****" of the decade award. 
> 
> Honest to god, you have no clue what you are even talking about. Please leave this thread. It is obvious you know nothing of the history behind these two and how this conflict came about.
> 
> You are either a troll or seriously one ignorant **** (as stated before).


may not be what you wanted to hear but he has the same right to talk(type) as any one else... and hamas has been refered to by many nations as evil... so, it is a valid point

----------


## BuffedGuy

> may not be what you wanted to hear but he has the same right to talk(type) as any one else... and hamas has been refered to by many nations as evil... so, it is a valid point


And Israel has been referred to as evil by many nations. So is that now a valid point according to you? Of course not, since you show bigotry. 

Every thing makes sense to you if it is defending Israel. If we reverse the argument and show you how it applies the other way around, suddenly you back out.

----------


## amcon

> I'm glad you are down to 200 rockets now. Unfortunately that is not accurate either. But I'm glad you have recanted from your previous erroneous view of 600 rockets. Maybe you will come down to reality eventually.


200 avg , up to 450 never said 600 - but i will take that you should know better than me cause you follow it closer... damn, shame they are spending 10k on each rocket and wasting that money when the palistines need sooo much!!! that in it self should be proof of hamas being what they are claimed to be... btw - i am not a biggot, ok i am against evil people... not skin color

----------


## amcon

> No it did not. It is not an independent sovereign nation. That is what "giving land back" means. Not creating a reservation/Bantustan with no sovereignty. Not one inch of land has been given by Israel. Not a single inch of Palestinian land is sovereign. This is a reality.


your playing on terms... israel was thought to be taking gaza and keeping it for them selves - kicking or kill all of its inhabitants ... did that happen?

----------


## amcon

> And Israel has been referred to as evil by many nations. So is that now a valid point according to you? Of course not, since you show bigotry. 
> 
> Every thing makes sense to you if it is defending Israel. If we reverse the argument and show you how it applies the other way around, suddenly you back out.


israel over time has showed lots of evil actions, lots... so, am i still a biggot? think not (never was) in this case i believe it was a offensive movement to, set up future defense... and i had no choice in their decisions

----------


## BuffedGuy

> 200 avg , up to 450 never said 600 - but i will take that you should know better than me cause you follow it closer...


The average was four per day, according to the Israeli Ministry's own website, which I linked to. As such, there is no debate. This is straight from the horse's mouth. You can't keep trotting around with false "facts" when I have already linked you to the Israeli Ministry's website. So the average per month was only 120 rockets, with almost no Israeli deaths resulting from it.




> damn, shame they are spending 10k on each rocket and wasting that money when the palistines need sooo much!!!


Lame. I've already told you that each rocket cost about $400. Their most expensive rockets cost $600. Again, I linked you to a pro-Israeli website. Please stop regurgitating false "facts". There is no point in debating if you are just going to invent facts. 

If you want to do that, fine, then I'll say that the rockets only cost 10 cents each. 




> that in it self should be proof of hamas being what they are claimed to be..


That in itself is not a proof for anything since all your facts are shoddy.




> your playing on terms... israel was thought to be taking gaza and keeping it for them selves - kicking or kill all of its inhabitants ... did that happen?


I'm not playing any terms. This is a matter of the Palestinian dream, which I would not play any games with. We want sovereignty. We don't want to be placed on reservations/Bantustans. This is the crux of the issue, not word games.

----------


## BuffedGuy

And I'm still waiting for you to show proof that the UN said that Israel was OK in using white phosphorous. The way you throw around "facts", I of course have my doubts about your claim, since you have zero credibility.

----------


## amcon

We want sovereignty - your palestinian, so of coarse your totally one sided... i am just showing the other side

sorry for your nation bro, i hope they get it right - i am going to stop over to a good friend of my that is from palestine, he give me all the low downs on the real deal... he was a fighter over there and got out due to a horrible explosion near his face - from bombs he was building - i'll get his view and give it back to all

do you still have family over there? 

i hope not doesnt seem like things will get any better 

and tell them to stop pissing of a bigger better financed country... spend some of the rocket money on little kids

btw - are you also a hamas supporter?

----------


## Matt

> answer the question did israel give the land back? or not?


You have had the answer, they havnt given the land back. Thats a fact that cant be argued with. 

And i cant talk for Buffedguy, but i support any people that fight oppression, so i guess i support Hamas. But only as far as fighting israel..

----------


## Dinosaur

> I just wanted to point out to you the meaning of prejudice, and to show you that you are in fact prejudiced when you said you are not. I never said that didnt apply to myself. I used proper logic and reasoning to express my statement. It's apparent by your rebuttal that this is way over your head and a good waste of my time.
> 
> and to BuffedGuy, why would my opinion on a purely hypothetical situation have any real value to it?


i am very disappointed to say that you did not bring anything new and still not answering the main questions.




> I just wanted to point out to you the meaning of prejudice, and to show you that you are in fact prejudiced when you said you are not.


ok thank you for that, looks like i have to take some english classes to understand what the word prejusdice means.

i ask you to answer my question. how am i being prejudice? how? is it because i said that irael have used the white phosphorus. can you bring your prove from my post to show me that iam prejudiced. correct me if iam wrong.





> It's apparent by your rebuttal that this is way over your head and a good waste of my time.


nothing new except repeating what you have said, i never new that talking about facts is good waste of time.

i just don't understand why talking about what israel has done in gaza would make me one sided. i hope somebody can make me underand this.

----------


## Dinosaur

> may not be what you wanted to hear but he has the same right to talk(type) as any one else... and hamas has been refered to by many nations as evil... so, it is a valid point


i just never understood who gave this nations the right to judge others how could this nations make it so easy to put an organisation in terrorist list and take them out in a blink of an eye once they give up on their fighting or weapons, weather its hamas, north korea or hisb allah..etc. 
so their message is just give up on your freedom and weapons and we will baptize you from your sins. i am still woundering who gave this contries the right to judge others or take their weapons away.
i understand now they just don't have the right to own weapons period. doen't that tell you something. 
how would you feel if your neighboor came to you and said, you don't have the right to own a big knife or gun if you do, than you are acrminal, and if somebody tries to rob your house just call me i will be around. he could be the thief him self we never know.

----------


## JiGGaMaN

> No it did not. It is not an independent sovereign nation. That is what "giving land back" means. Not creating a reservation/Bantustan with no sovereignty. Not one inch of land has been given by Israel. Not a single inch of Palestinian land is sovereign. This is a reality.


when was the last time palestine was a sovereign nation?

----------


## Dinosaur

> i am not either sided, however i do think a nation (either side has a right to defend them selves)
> 
> dont add america in to this they have nothing to do with it... yes, they gave them money - but usa didnt aim the guns at any one


i am not adding america into this. 
i want you to think very carfully about what iam going to say here.
lets say that egypt was giving weapons and financial help to hamas to fight israel.
what would you say about the egypt government. i will tell you for sure what you are going to hear, egypt shoud stop helping terrosits, egypt is helping torrorism, epypt is funding terrorism i could go on and on...
why would it be ok for america to help israel and a crime to help hamas.

if you ganna tell me that hamas is a terrorist group iam ganna tell you that they were elected democratically to the governement and few contries like rassia and france have engaged in talks with them. others were pressurized by the U.S not to engage in talks with them.
so please before you asnwer my question i want you to think twice before write.

----------


## BuffedGuy

> when was the last time palestine was a sovereign nation?


This is a deceitful question, often used by Zionists. Let me answer it very clearly for you:

There is a concept called popular sovereignty and consent of the governed, which means that a people have a right to decide for themselves who rules over them. For example, Californians consent to the idea that they are ruled by the American government. So it is incorrect to say that they don't practice popular sovereignty or the consent of the governed is flouted. The point is that the people get to decide who rules over them. It does not mean that California has to be an independent nation by itself. Rather, it simply means that the people get to decide popularly and there must be consent of the governed.

So to answer your question, Palestinians had popular sovereignty and consent of the people before the British occupied the land. They were willingly a part of the great Ottoman Empire, the blessed empire that we Muslims all miss sourly. The consent of the governed was taken away when the British occupied the land, and through Zionist arm-twisting was turned into Israel.

----------


## Dinosaur

> could we also apply that to hamas? if so i am all on board with you...


absolutely, if they invaded israel and killed innocent civilians i would be standing against that.

----------


## BuffedGuy

> We want sovereignty - your palestinian, so of coarse your totally one sided... i am just showing the other side


You only show one side, yet claim to be neutral. You're not neutral, so please stop claiming to be.

As for me, yes I am pro-Palestinian because they are the occupied peoples. If they were occupiers--despite the fact that they are my people--I would oppose them, just like the Jews Against Zionism oppose their own people. 




> do you still have family over there?


I am not Palestinian, but Muslim. They are my brothers and sisters by faith.




> btw - are you also a hamas supporter?


I have said it numerous times that I vociferously oppose their methods. I am a supporter of the Palestinian people and their right to be a free people. Occupation must die.

----------


## BuffedGuy

> absolutely, if they invaded israel and killed innocent civilians i would be standing against that.


Exactly. Prophet Muhammad [s] told us to help Muslims if they are oppressed or are the oppressors. His disciples asked: how can we help a Muslim if he is an oppressor? And Prophet Muhammad [s] replied: by stopping him from oppressing. If a Muslim oppresses someone else, then he earns evil against his own soul, so by preventing him from oppressing, you are not only helping the one who he is oppressing, but you are also helping him (the oppressor himself), by removing the evil deeds he is earning for himself.

----------


## BuffedGuy

People vilify the Palestinians for voting in Hamas. Yes, I disagree with the tactics of Hamas, but it doesn't mean that all Palestinians love terrorism. Rather, they are an oppressed and occupied peoples who had to choose between the PLO (a highly corrupt party of Uncle Toms) and Hamas. It is the same thing if, let's imagine the Irish people voting in the IRA. The IRA engaged in terrorism as well, just to give some examples:

* Bloody Friday: a 1972 attack in Belfast in which 22 bombs, set off in just over an hour, killed 9 people and injured 130.
* In 1979, the IRA assassinated Queen Elizabeth II's uncle, Lord Mountbatten, and three others by blowing up his boat.
* In 1998, an IRA car bombing killed 29 people in Northern Ireland. The attack was severe enough to provoke threats by the Irish government that paramilitary groups must declare a cease-fire.

I'm not saying that the IRA is great. I'm saying that all oppressed and occupied peoples react in the SAME way. It's not rocket science. (lol @ the pun...)

----------


## Dinosaur

> People vilify the Palestinians for voting in Hamas. Yes, I disagree with the tactics of Hamas, but it doesn't mean that all Palestinians love terrorism. Rather, they are an oppressed and occupied peoples who had to choose between the PLO (a highly corrupt party of Uncle Toms) and Hamas. It is the same thing as Irish people voting in the IRA. The IRA engaged in terrorism as well, just to give some examples:
> 
> * Bloody Friday: a 1972 attack in Belfast in which 22 bombs, set off in just over an hour, killed 9 people and injured 130.
> * In 1979, the IRA assassinated Queen Elizabeth II's uncle, Lord Mountbatten, and three others by blowing up his boat.
> * In 1998, an IRA car bombing killed 29 people in Northern Ireland. The attack was severe enough to provoke threats by the Irish government that paramilitary groups must declare a cease-fire.
> 
> I'm not saying that the IRA is great. I'm saying that all oppressed and occupied peoples react in the SAME way. It's not rocket science. (lol @ the pun...)



well said. when is the time that people ganna wake up and start opening their eyes not their ears.

----------


## xlxBigSexyxlx

I need to get me some of this stuff.
So I can kill terrorists

----------


## amcon

> i just never understood who gave this nations the right to judge others how could this nations make it so easy to put an organisation in terrorist list and take them out in a blink of an eye once they give up on their fighting or weapons, weather its hamas, north korea or hisb allah..etc. 
> so their message is just give up on your freedom and weapons and we will baptize you from your sins. i am still woundering who gave this contries the right to judge others or take their weapons away.
> i understand now they just don't have the right to own weapons period. doen't that tell you something. 
> how would you feel if your neighboor came to you and said, you don't have the right to own a big knife or gun if you do, than you are acrminal, and if somebody tries to rob your house just call me i will be around. he could be the thief him self we never know.


well, they hamas took claims for lots of bombings so that is a easy question - they did that to them selves... as for who get to decied the rules - the ones with the most power, 

and really? (about my neighbor...???) first, we as a society to that all the time it is call probation.  :AaGreen22:

----------


## amcon

> i am not adding america into this. 
> i want you to think very carfully about what iam going to say here.
> lets say that egypt was giving weapons and financial help to hamas to fight israel.
> what would you say about the egypt government. i will tell you for sure what you are going to hear, egypt shoud stop helping terrosits, egypt is helping torrorism, epypt is funding terrorism i could go on and on...
> why would it be ok for america to help israel and a crime to help hamas.
> 
> if you ganna tell me that hamas is a terrorist group iam ganna tell you that they were elected democratically to the governement and few contries like rassia and france have engaged in talks with them. others were pressurized by the U.S not to engage in talks with them.
> so please before you asnwer my question i want you to think twice before write.



that would be nice if it were true... are you saying hamas is not a terrorist gov? (and also think twice before you answer)

----------


## amcon

> This is a deceitful question, often used by Zionists. Let me answer it very clearly for you:
> 
> There is a concept called popular sovereignty and consent of the governed, which means that a people have a right to decide for themselves who rules over them. For example, Californians consent to the idea that they are ruled by the American government. So it is incorrect to say that they don't practice popular sovereignty or the consent of the governed is flouted. The point is that the people get to decide who rules over them. It does not mean that California has to be an independent nation by itself. Rather, it simply means that the people get to decide popularly and there must be consent of the governed.
> 
> So to answer your question, Palestinians had popular sovereignty and consent of the people before the British occupied the land. They were willingly a part of the great Ottoman Empire, the blessed empire that we Muslims all miss sourly. The consent of the governed was taken away when the British occupied the land, and through Zionist arm-twisting was turned into Israel.


thats just one sides view... others would say that it was not "zionists" it was every one trying to help them become a educated people(educated people - measured to the british standards) in return british gov would tax them and take natural rescorces

----------


## amcon

> absolutely, if they invaded israel and killed innocent civilians i would be standing against that.


that is a very fair position - we def agree on that

----------


## amcon

> Exactly. Prophet Muhammad [s] told us to help Muslims if they are oppressed or are the oppressors. His disciples asked: how can we help a Muslim if he is an oppressor? And Prophet Muhammad [s] replied: by stopping him from oppressing. If a Muslim oppresses someone else, then he earns evil against his own soul, so by preventing him from oppressing, you are not only helping the one who he is oppressing, but you are also helping him (the oppressor himself), by removing the evil deeds he is earning for himself.


Jesus says that "and thou shalt love the Lord the God with all thy haeart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: the is the first commandment. and the second is like, namely this, thou shalt love thy neighbour as thy self. there is none other commandments greater than these."

that should be all our goals! period!

and here lies the problem "and from the days of john the baptist until now the kingdom of heaven(should say kingdom or heaven on earth, i have good proof of this, land of cannan) suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force." 

here is what will happen to Israel... they (and i believe it will happen sooner than later) will be crushed and be either kicked out of there territory or put under a very harsh rule... 2/3s of them will be killed...

and by the way remember jews, loath people like me - because i believe that the jews were shelved to give the gentiles(non jews) a chance at Grace from God. 

we are just seeing it all played out

----------


## BuffedGuy

> thats just one sides view... others would say that it was not "zionists" it was every one trying to help them become a educated people(educated people - measured to the british standards) in return british gov would tax them and take natural rescorces


Wow, lol. You were seriously born about a couple hundred years late. That kind of White Man's Burden talk died long time ago. Yes Big White Man, please educate us Brown Brothers.

----------


## *RAGE*

Buffedguy, I have a question for you Please keep you answer to the one question. When a bomb or rocket explodes does it injury and kill all the people around it. (no matter what kind of bomb or rocket it is.....thank you

----------


## *RAGE*

buffedguy, I am sorry for this second question but ment to ask it with the other one....again please just answer the question? when the bomb or rocket goes off can it tell what it is going to injury or kill?

----------


## Dinosaur

> well, they hamas took claims for lots of bombings so that is a easy question - they did that to them selves... as for who get to decied the rules - the ones with the most power, 
> 
> and really? (about my neighbor...???) first, we as a society to that all the time it is call probation.


lets not go very far behind, cause i don't like the blame blame game.
lets just talk about the recent issues. do you agree with that israel started the attack first after the end of the cease fire agreement, and that zero rockets were fired by hamas during the agreement?

if that so, than i want blame hamas for shipping rockets to israel.




> as for who get to decied the rules - the ones with the most power,


that's right, welcome to the new world of show me your muscles and i will show you mine.

----------


## Dinosaur

> that would be nice if it were true... are you saying hamas is not a terrorist gov? (and also think twice before you answer)



please, don't answer my question by giving me another question?  :2nono: 

 :LOL:

----------


## BuffedGuy

> Buffedguy, I have a question for you Please keep you answer to the one question. When a bomb or rocket explodes does it injury and kill all the people around it. (no matter what kind of bomb or rocket it is.....thank you


The answer is obvious: a bomb's impact has a certain radius, and whatever is in that radius will be destroyed.




> buffedguy, I am sorry for this second question but ment to ask it with the other one....again please just answer the question? when the bomb or rocket goes off can it tell what it is going to injury or kill?


The bomb or rocket cannot. The person firing the bomb or rocket can.

----------


## Dinosaur

> Buffedguy, I have a question for you Please keep you answer to the one question. When a bomb or rocket explodes does it injury and kill all the people around it. (no matter what kind of bomb or rocket it is.....thank you


no it does not. here is the prove.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/wor...phosphorus.cnn

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## BuffedGuy

> no it does not. here is the prove.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/wor...phosphorus.cnn


Look at the end of the video clip, where they say how first Israel lied and denied using white phosphorous, then it later admitted to using it. These people are nothing but liars. Just like they say "oh we attacked Gaza because of rocket attacks", and then when that's disproved by the fact that Hamas fired zero rockets during the ceasefire, they switch allegations and say "oh Hamas uses other ways to attack us."

----------


## Dinosaur

> Look at the end of the video clip, where they say how first Israel lied and denied using white phosphorous, then it later admitted to using it. These people are nothing but liars. Just like they say "oh we attacked Gaza because of rocket attacks", and then when that's disproved by the fact that Hamas fired zero rockets during the ceasefire, they switch allegations and say "oh Hamas uses other ways to attack us."


i know well how they dance back and forth but their tone is old dated. 
i just want to see them stand up just one time and say yes we did what we did and be honest about it. instead, they always say ohh we are looking into this allegation, we are invastigating, we are conducting our own democractic way of investigation...etc
at least when hamas or other groups fire rockets they claim responsibility.

----------


## BuffedGuy

> i know well how they dance back and forth but their tone is old dated. 
> i just want to see them stand up just one time and say yes we did what we did and be honest about it. instead, they always say ohh we are looking into this allegation, we are invastigating, we are conducting our own democractic way of investigation...etc
> at least when hamas or other groups fire rockets they claim responsibility.


I love the "we are investigating" routine.

----------


## amcon

> Wow, lol. You were seriously born about a couple hundred years late. That kind of White Man's Burden talk died long time ago. Yes Big White Man, please educate us Brown Brothers.


you always give me the win when you go "there", that is history not my opinion... 

i dont need to win at this - just try looking past your side and look at the whole picture

----------


## amcon

> lets not go very far behind, cause i don't like the blame blame game.
> lets just talk about the recent issues. do you agree with that israel started the attack first after the end of the cease fire agreement, and that zero rockets were fired by hamas during the agreement?
> 
> if that so, than i want blame hamas for shipping rockets to israel.
> 
> 
> 
> that's right, welcome to the new world of show me your muscles and i will show you mine.


 this is the info i have used to guide my opinions: if it is wrong i am willing to look at the other sides as well, as for cnn i believe they are the least bias

(CNN) -- Palestinians activated an explosive device and a Palestinian was killed by Israeli helicopter fire early Tuesday in the first incidents of violence since last week's Mideast cease-fire, according to Hamas and Israeli army sources.
A family sleeps outside their destroyed house in Jabalia's Ezbet Abed Rabbo district in northern Gaza.

A family sleeps outside their destroyed house in Jabalia's Ezbet Abed Rabbo district in northern Gaza.
Click to view previous image
1 of 2
Click to view next image
more photos »

The explosive device was detonated against an Israeli army patrol along the border just north of Kissufim crossing about 8 a.m. Tuesday.

In the fighting, an Israeli soldier was killed and three others were wounded, according to the Israeli military.

The Palestinian was killed by Israeli helicopter fire east of Khan Yunis, near the border fence with Israel, about 90 minutes later.

Israel closed the crossings between Israel and Gaza after the explosive was detonated, a defense ministry spokesman said.

Israel launched its 22-day assault on Hamas, the Palestinian movement which controls Gaza, on December 27. More than 1,300 Palestinians died during the air and ground campaign, and 13 Israelis were killed.

Israel declared a unilateral cease-fire in mid-January, and pulled its troops out by January 21.

It said the operation aimed to stop Palestinian militants from firing rockets into Israel from Gaza.

----------


## amcon

> please, don't answer my question by giving me another question?


ok great answer the question

----------


## amcon

> no it does not. here is the prove.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/wor...phosphorus.cnn


come on that is not even realistic

----------


## amcon

> Look at the end of the video clip, where they say how first Israel lied and denied using white phosphorous, then it later admitted to using it. These people are nothing but liars. Just like they say "oh we attacked Gaza because of rocket attacks", and then when that's disproved by the fact that Hamas fired zero rockets during the ceasefire, they switch allegations and say "oh Hamas uses other ways to attack us."


hamas did acording to cnn - hamas even killed the israels - hours later a militant was killed from a israelly helicopter

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## amcon

> I love the "we are investigating" routine.


oh man, that is cause they are a terriorist group and like the neg attention... wow, wow, wow, of coarse they take credit for killing others that is who they are...  :0icon Pissedoff:  :0icon Pissedoff:

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## jimmyinkedup

This just proves what we all already knew ... governments/ people lie for propaganda purposes ...especially in wartime. Nothing new. The White phos issue ..imo no big deal ...no wartime violations occurred. The lying about it ...is anyone surprised? Think your government hasnt done the same in similar circumstances to bolster public and international support? Regardless of nationality i am confident they have. Is there ever a truly moral and ethical war ? Even WW2 was riddled with propaganda and lies from both sides ..and if that isnt an example of justifiable military action i dont know what is. Dont get it twisted ...this conflict is a disgrace - those who have seen my posts in other threads know where i stand.

----------


## *RAGE*

> no it does not. here is the prove.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/wor...phosphorus.cnn


Like I have said before if that was a W-P burn it looked better then some I have seen that were not. They all burn, They all KILL, That is the rocket or bombs JOB.....You get your proof from the new and web. No medical investigation no chemical investigation to so that it was w-p...

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## amcon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ30UT9PsNw

well, i dont know from this video, if a bomb goes off you might be ok...

and just for referance he shot off like 5 rockest in about 20 seconds... 200 a day is very accurate, as for the cost? does any one know what those rockets cost? how bout a new arm or hand? i would have asked how much a new black hat cost but he def wont be needing that...

----------


## *RAGE*

The words they were saying while they were shooting I cant spell them but it means in the name of god...How f**k is that....I guess it was INSHALLAH (GOD'S WILL)

----------


## Dinosaur

> this is the info i have used to guide my opinions: if it is wrong i am willing to look at the other sides as well, as for cnn i believe they are the least bias
> 
> (CNN) -- Palestinians activated an explosive device and a Palestinian was killed by Israeli helicopter fire early Tuesday in the first incidents of violence since last week's Mideast cease-fire, according to Hamas and Israeli army sources.
> A family sleeps outside their destroyed house in Jabalia's Ezbet Abed Rabbo district in northern Gaza.
> 
> A family sleeps outside their destroyed house in Jabalia's Ezbet Abed Rabbo district in northern Gaza.
> Click to view previous image
> 1 of 2
> Click to view next image
> ...


it is abvious to conclude that there were no rocket attacks as you claimed before. this time they are talking about bombs. very strange.
iam woundering if they were able to stop the rockets from gaza!

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## Dinosaur

> come on that is not even realistic


how? what's this thing that is realistic to you?

----------


## Dinosaur

> well, i dont know from this video, if a bomb goes off you might be ok...
> 
> and just for referance he shot off like 5 rockest in about 20 seconds... 200 a day is very accurate, as for the cost? does any one know what those rockets cost? how bout a new arm or hand? i would have asked how much a new black hat cost but he def wont be needing that...


the video you posted is from iraq not palastine.
and i don't know what's the point of posting it? and i don't see anyhting sacrcastic about the guy he died fighting for his contry is it a crime to do that? is it diffrent from what we hear in the news when they tell us friendly fire got cut up between the coalition forces or the hlicopter got shut down due to mechanical problem.

----------


## BuffedGuy

> the video you posted is from iraq not palastine.


lol this is the "proof" that the guy uses. 

Next thing you know he will be posting videos from the GI Joe cartoon as a proof. But if you post a link from CNN, beware, that's just not realistic!




> and i don't see anyhting sacrcastic about the guy he died fighting for his contry is it a crime to do that?


May God enter him into the highest ranks in Paradise.




> is it diffrent from what we hear in the news when they tell us friendly fire got cut up between the coalition forces or the hlicopter got shut down due to mechanical problem.


Yes, it is different. He's a dirty Saracen, not a Crusader.

----------


## Dinosaur

> The words they were saying while they were shooting I cant spell them but it means in the name of god...How f**k is that....I guess it was INSHALLAH (GOD'S WILL)


 :Haha: 
please, next time when you are trying to make fun of somebody at least know what the are saying. its like saying hi to somebody while they ask you what u want to eat.

by the way, allah akbar means god is great. not in the name of god or inshallah.

----------


## BuffedGuy

> please, next time when you are trying to make fun of somebody at least know what the are saying. its like saying hi to somebody while they ask you what u want to eat.
> 
> by the way, allah akbar means god is great. not in the name of god or inshallah.


And indeed, God is Most Great. _Allahu Akbar_.

----------


## xlxBigSexyxlx

> This just proves what we all already knew ... governments/ people lie for propaganda purposes ...especially in wartime. Nothing new. The White phos issue ..imo no big deal ...no wartime violations occurred. The lying about it ...is anyone surprised? Think your government hasnt done the same in similar circumstances to bolster public and international support? Regardless of nationality i am confident they have. Is there ever a truly moral and ethical war ? Even WW2 was riddled with propaganda and lies from both sides ..and if that isnt an example of justifiable military action i dont know what is. Dont get it twisted ...this conflict is a disgrace - those who have seen my posts in other threads know where i stand.


word....

----------


## *RAGE*

> And indeed, God is Most Great. _Allahu Akbar_.


I know what it means and also what Allahu akbar mean heard it as I was hitting the ground..And I was not making fun you just making a statement......If I wanted to make fun of you it would get a lot dirtier than this but I will not go to that level...

----------


## xlxBigSexyxlx

babies died...god is great...

----------


## xlxBigSexyxlx

**** **** **** ****


this is ridiculous

----------


## *RAGE*

> And indeed, God is Most Great. _Allahu Akbar_.


god is most great while firing rockets at people...and you dont see something wrong with this....?????????????????????????????????????????

----------


## *RAGE*

> cnn news confirms that israel has indeed used a deadly weapon known as white phosphorus, yet they got away with it.
> i don't have a prejudice against no side here, just standing for the truth that's all. if you want to comment, please do but, with respect.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQWl_uQKxOI


I don't have a prejudice against no side here, I think that has changed. Most of what I have posted here is that it does not matter if it is white phosphorus or other kinds of explosives they all kill, (which I have stated before it does not matter what is in the bombs or rockets they all injury or kill people..I think this thread has been taken way out  :2offtopic: ..and now it is them against us. Americans are not killing people in Gaze. Israel is hunting Hamas in Gaze and as I have stated before innocent people are getting killed and injuried and that is sad. Every war in history innocent people have died that is part of war....It is not the soldiers fault they are just doing there job and trying to come home..charrif I understand where you are coming from but this is just a fact of life....

----------


## Dinosaur

> I know what it means and also what Allahu akbar mean heard it as I was hitting the ground..And I was not making fun you just making a statement......If I wanted to make fun of you it would get a lot dirtier than this but I will not go to that level...


no problem. we are all here to learn fromt each others wether its religion, culture or science..etc. the main thing is to express our selves and talk with respect about the other side that we don't hear of especially, from the main stream media.
but surely, i will not except anyone making fun of the other one no matter what your believes are.
jokes are allowed though....cheers.

----------


## Dinosaur

> god is most great while firing rockets at people...and you dont see something wrong with this....?????????????????????????????????????????


he was not firing rockets at civilians. just correction.

----------


## *RAGE*

> he was not firing rockets at civilians. just correction.


thanks you for your responses. I enjoyed this thread..I am sure there is more to come..

----------


## Dinosaur

> don't have a prejudice against no side here, I think that has changed. Most of what I have posted here is that it does not matter if it is white phosphorus or other kinds of explosives they all kill, (which I have stated before it does not matter what is in the bombs or rockets they all injury or kill people..I think this thread has been taken way out ..and now it is them against us. Americans are not killing people in Gaze. Israel is hunting Hamas in Gaze and as I have stated before innocent people are getting killed and injuried and that is sad. Every war in history innocent people have died that is part of war....It is not the soldiers fault they are just doing there job and trying to come home..charrif I understand where you are coming from but this is just a fact of life....


i see where you are standing and i agree with you. but some things needs to be cleared.

the U.S is shipping money and weapons to israel so those weapons that they are using against palastinians are indeed american made along with f16's and palastinian people know that very well that's why you can see the hate against america in the middle east is growing tremendously, and as we all know that violence will only begets violence.

please, don't missunderstand my view of the situation, i have nothing against the U.S. however, america needs to change its policies in the region, be fair with everybody wether you are arab or israeli and we want to restore peace back and hold talks cause i believe that this is the only way to solve this issues and they can be done if we want to get them done. this the ideal america that i know, so which side do we want to stand on.
i respect your views.
peace.

----------


## amcon

ya i look at this that way too... here to see the other side... bust balls just a little along the way...

much respect charrif, prone, and others including buffedguy.

----------


## *RAGE*

We should call this the Rodney King thread...(can't we all just get along) LOL

----------


## BuffedGuy

> god is most great while firing rockets at people...and you dont see something wrong with this....?????????????????????????????????????????


Not at all. They are firing rockets at soldiers who have occupied their home and country. I believe in holy war. What I demand, however, is that it be a just war. The Iraqis are defending their land from colonial occupation, and there can be nothing more just or righteous than this. This is when a _Jihad_ (holy struggle) is ordained upon the conquered peoples, i.e. the Iraqis. It is not something that I feel we need to be revisionist about. Rather, we are proud that our religion says that Muslims should defend their lands, which the Iraqis will do, tooth and nail. If this generation cannot secure its freedom, then the next will, and if not the next, then the next after that. Our religion tells us to love and prefer peace over war, but if the enemy occupies our lands, then dying like men is better than oppression and humiliation. It is better to die standing rather than living on one's knees. Victory is from God alone. _Allahu Akbar_.

----------


## *RAGE*

> Not at all. They are not firing rockets at soldiers who have occupied their home and country. I believe in holy war. What I demand, however, is that it be a just war. There can be nothing more just or righteous than fighting off foreigners who colonize our lands. _Allahu Akbar_.


Ok game on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My statement in the quote was based on the video where the Iraqies were firing rockets at American soldiers and one blow up killing them that is when I wrote Inshallah (gods will).....I have also been told it means (if god wills it) either way. I do not understand how you can say they are not firing rockets at soldiers who have occupied thier home and country....Then who are they firing at????????????????? No you dont believe in holy war because if you did you would be on the first plane to Gaza fighting the holy way...(IF THAT IS WHAT YOU THINK THIS IS)..There is not such thing as a just war on what you have written....You said it (There can be nothing more just or righteous then fighting off a foreigners who colonize our lands....(first I though you were American) (second you can write all day every day on this and 1,000's of other websites but it is just words) Last but not least *(MEN ARE REMEMBERED FOR THEIR ACTION NOT THEIR WORDS)* Allahu Akbar click click boom

NOW YOU CHANGED IT

----------


## *RAGE*

^^^that was wrote on you original post

----------


## BuffedGuy

> Ok game on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My statement in the quote was based on the video where the Iraqies were firing rockets at American soldiers and one blow up killing them that is when I wrote Inshallah (gods will).....I have also been told it means (if god wills it) either way. I do not understand how you can say they are not firing rockets at soldiers who have occupied thier home and country....Then who are they firing at?????????????????


I had a typo in my post. I accidentally said "not". I meant they *are* fighting soldiers, not civilians. I fixed the typo. Re-read it.

As for _Allahu Akbar_, it means "God is Most Great", not "God Willing." _Insha-Allah_ means "God-Willing." 




> No you dont believe in holy war because if you did you would be on the first plane to Gaza fighting the holy way...(IF THAT IS WHAT YOU THINK THIS IS)..


According to Islamic Law, _Jihad_ is ordained and obligatory on the conquered peoples, and those near them. It is a communal obligation, not an individual obligation. If a party of the believers fight the invaders off, then the rest are absolved from the obligation. In this case, it is the conquered peoples who must fight. Meanwhile, those of us living in America will caution against oppression and occupation. 




> first I though you were American


I am. And...?

----------


## *RAGE*

> I had a typo in my post. I accidentally said "not". I meant they *are* fighting soldiers, not civilians. I fixed the typo. Re-read it.
> 
> *I did and you change a lot*
> 
> As for _Allahu Akbar_, it means "God is Most Great", not "God Willing." _Insha-Allah_ means "God-Willing." 
> 
> *I know that is what I put and yes you did correct me already*
> 
> According to Islamic Law, _Jihad_ is ordained and obligatory on the conquered peoples, and those near them. It is a communal obligation, not an individual obligation. If a party of the believers fight the invaders off, then the rest are absolved from the obligation. In this case, it is the conquered peoples who must fight. 
> ...


* and nothing just on you original post and since you changed it it no longer makes sense*

in my post I asked question and made statement concerning your post....

----------


## BuffedGuy

> * and nothing just on you original post and since you changed it it no longer makes sense*


I generally edit my posts like four or five times due to the number of errors. Sorry about that.  :Smilie:

----------


## RangersLTW

:00359z Wave Usa:  :0eat:

----------


## *RAGE*

> I generally edit my posts like four or five times due to the number of errors. Sorry about that.


as you can tell i dont edit mine i just look like a dumb a**

----------


## BuffedGuy

> as you can tell i dont edit mine i just look like a dumb a**


Haha, I've just got an obsessive compulsive thing going on with grammar and spelling.

----------


## *RAGE*

> Haha, I've just got an obsessive compulsive thing going on with grammar and spelling.


not me and my spell check on this site dont work and trust me I use spell check all the time....

----------


## *RAGE*

> 


what up my brother enjoying the show.lmao

----------


## RangersLTW

:What?:  kinda

----------


## amcon

> Ok game on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My statement in the quote was based on the video where the Iraqies were firing rockets at American soldiers and one blow up killing them that is when I wrote Inshallah (gods will).....I have also been told it means (if god wills it) either way. I do not understand how you can say they are not firing rockets at soldiers who have occupied thier home and country....Then who are they firing at????????????????? No you dont believe in holy war because if you did you would be on the first plane to Gaza fighting the holy way...(IF THAT IS WHAT YOU THINK THIS IS)..There is not such thing as a just war on what you have written....You said it (There can be nothing more just or righteous then fighting off a foreigners who colonize our lands....(first I though you were American) (second you can write all day every day on this and 1,000's of other websites but it is just words) Last but not least *(MEN ARE REMEMBERED FOR THEIR ACTION NOT THEIR WORDS)* Allahu Akbar click click boom
> 
> 
> NOW YOU CHANGED IT


some one get a chalk board pronetorage just tallied up a few points  :Owned: 
... listen, that is really a strong point hard to combat, buffedguy i love your passion but you have to realize your points prove you view... and though a person says they are not one sided - you drip and leak one sidedness from every poor you have in your body, you do believe in a holly war, so does israel - thus, that is why we are where we are... you have to, let me say that again, have to!!! respect israel's view... they were given the land of cannan... (in the first five books in the bible) and they will own it totally again some day. the time after moses say the land and did not enter to the comming of the messiha, that land and the inhabitance will have a true holly war!!! the cannanites are a curese nation, cursed with having to fight and never have peace.

and that my friend is the holly war. and if you can have that view against israel, they can have it against you

... "and for me and my house i will serve the Lord" and stay the heck out of the middle east and away from the crazyness

as for moneys going to israel... i can give you my guess on why so much and why the usa support to them seem like such a priority to our gov.

btw well written prone.(not flaming as in to some ones face just to the point and firm)

----------


## RangersLTW

sorry but I had to do this no offense.......but now I have this cadence in my head
I've been told it's not so neat,
To catch ****** burning in the street,
But burning flesh, it smells to sweet,
Napalm sticks to ****

----------


## amcon

what are the asterics??? come on i have a beat in my head to now and it is not totally right cause i dont know how to pronounce the asterics??!??!?! where is the justice!!!

----------


## RangersLTW

I don't want to get banned for this cadence......may be to much

----------


## Dinosaur

> ya i look at this that way too... here to see the other side... bust balls just a little along the way...
> 
> much respect charrif, prone, and others including buffedguy.


you are welcome.

----------


## Dinosaur

> you have to, let me say that again, have to!!! respect israel's view... they were given the land of cannan... (in the first five books in the bible) and they will own it totally again some day. the time after moses say the land and did not enter to the comming of the messiha, that land and the inhabitance will have a true holly war!!! the cannanites are a curese nation, cursed with having to fight and never have peace.
> 
> and that my friend is the holly war. and if you can have that view against israel, they can have it against you


we want to leave with israel side by side in peace. just like the chritians and the muslims in jerusalam, you will never hear problems going on between the two. that's the ideal leaving iam talking about with mutual respect and peace.

----------


## BuffedGuy

> and though a person says they are not one sided - you drip and leak one sidedness from every poor you have in your body,


I do not think I am biased, but I have never ever said that I am not pro-Palestinian. Rather, I am very pro-Palestinian. It would be disingenuous of me to claim that I am neither pro-Palestinian or pro-Israeli. I am pro-Palestinian because they are the colonized and occupied peoples. I am not pro-Israeli because they are the occupiers and oppressors.




> you do believe in a holly war, so does israel - thus, that is why we are where we are... you have to, let me say that again, have to!!! respect israel's view...


My belief in a holy war coincides with international law, whereas Israel's belief in Eretz Israel does _not_. My belief in holy war is that it is ordained when someone invades our lands and runs us out of our homes...then it is permissible to fight the oppressor and throw them out. I do *not* believe it is permissible to use holy war to justify being the oppressor and occupier. If I had such a religious belief, then it would be in contradiction to international law, and as such, I could not possibly expect people of other faiths to tolerate it.

The Zionist view--that God gave them the land occupied by another peoples--is in contradiction to international law. So there is no moral equivalency between my belief and the Zionist one. My belief is in accordance to consent of the governed and popular sovereignty, and my belief is against colonialism, occupation, and oppression. On the other hand, the Zionist view runs totally against consent of the governed and popular sovereignty, which is the basis for international law.

The likeness of this is the religious belief I have that stealing is forbidden. If some person belonged to a religion that said stealing was permissible, do you think they could justify it by saying "you follow your religion, and I am following mine!" No. Because you cannot expect people of other faiths to accept your beliefs when they infringe on your own freedoms. My religious belief against stealing is supported by others only because it coincides with their own laws.




> they were given the land of cannan... (in the first five books in the bible) and they will own it totally again some day. the time after moses say the land and did not enter to the comming of the messiha, that land and the inhabitance will have a true holly war!!! the cannanites are a curese nation, cursed with having to fight and never have peace.


According to traditional orthodox Judaism, the Jews were an exiled nation that were not to return to the land of Palestine/Israel until the Messiah came. By preempting that, they have disobeyed God. This is why orthodox Jews in generality were opposed to Zionists and Zionism during the late 1800's and early 1900's. Zionism was led by secular Jews who perverted religion to justify their colonial enterprise. To this day, there are orthodox Jews who hold this view, i.e. that the Zionists have disobeyed God by taking themselves out of exile without the permission of God.

----------


## FallenWyvern

I have wondered if all of this violence is god's(Allah's) will. Maybe god wants this to happen. He is all powerful after all... The only reason I thought of this is BuffedGuy always says god willing.


The other thing is that Israel is out of line on this for sure. I know that many people think that America should step aside forever with the mindless support of Israel. We need the money back home right now anyways.

----------


## NightWolf

Islam the religon of peace,


Buffguy do you think this looks peaceful?

----------


## *RAGE*

> I have wondered if all of this violence is god's(Allah's) will. Maybe god wants this to happen. He is all powerful after all... The only reason I thought of this is BuffedGuy always says god willing.
> 
> 
> The other thing is that Israel is out of line on this for sure. I know that many people think that America should step aside forever with the mindless support of Israel. We need the money back home right now anyways.


What? I am sorry, I was looking at your avatar....

----------


## BuffedGuy

> Islam the religon of peace,
> 
> 
> Buffguy do you think this looks peaceful?


Your pictures/images haven't been approved yet by the mods, so I can't see them. But I am expecting the worst, lol. Maybe a few angry guys burning effigies or with Death to this or that signs. Or a suicide bomber...Let's wait and see...

----------


## BuffedGuy

> The other thing is that Israel is out of line on this for sure. I know that many people think that America should step aside forever with the mindless support of Israel. We need the money back home right now anyways.


Right on the money. Thank you.

----------


## amcon

> I do not think I am biased, but I have never ever said that I am not pro-Palestinian. Rather, I am very pro-Palestinian. It would be disingenuous of me to claim that I am neither pro-Palestinian or pro-Israeli. I am pro-Palestinian because they are the colonized and occupied peoples. I am not pro-Israeli because they are the occupiers and oppressors.
> 
> 
> 
> My belief in a holy war coincides with international law, whereas Israel's belief in Eretz Israel does _not_. My belief in holy war is that it is ordained when someone invades our lands and runs us out of our homes...then it is permissible to fight the oppressor and throw them out. I do *not* believe it is permissible to use holy war to justify being the oppressor and occupier. If I had such a religious belief, then it would be in contradiction to international law, and as such, I could not possibly expect people of other faiths to tolerate it.
> 
> The Zionist view--that God gave them the land occupied by another peoples--is in contradiction to international law. So there is no moral equivalency between my belief and the Zionist one. My belief is in accordance to consent of the governed and popular sovereignty, and my belief is against colonialism, occupation, and oppression. On the other hand, the Zionist view runs totally against consent of the governed and popular sovereignty, which is the basis for international law.
> 
> The likeness of this is the religious belief I have that stealing is forbidden. If some person belonged to a religion that said stealing was permissible, do you think they could justify it by saying "you follow your religion, and I am following mine!" No. Because you cannot expect people of other faiths to accept your beliefs when they infringe on your own freedoms. My religious belief against stealing is supported by others only because it coincides with their own laws.
> ...


point one - so your not talking about holly war you are just talking about war. by "knowledge shall increase(knowledge of the Lord), FALSE PROPHETS, WARS, FAMINES, EARTHQUAKES, TRIBULATIONS(hatred and discrimination), and the nation of israel must rebuild the temple... so, it is commonly thought that israel must rebuild the temple before the Lord returns... that does not mean (as you have pointed out that any part of the jewish nation ) israel with Gods hand should have taken and created their own nation. many believe as you do that they should have not come out of exile... either way i will tell you this that when the anti - christ comes and is clearly identified the nation of israel will pay the "holley" price for their actions. 

i will also add that i believe that the church (composed of gentiles, jewish blooded people, muslims christians and such) will be raptured before jacobs trouble or the 7 years of tribulation where the 7 seals are broken un to the chosen people... 

their is a parrable in the bible that says that their were some virgins that half came prepared with lamps of oil, and the other half did were excited of his coming but did not prepare and when the time came "... only the wise had oil in their lamps." what we do during this time period will dictate our exsistance with God. some will pay the price of lack of faith and others will reap the results of their faith. i found a interesting comparison i will paste here... and i was excited to see this... because in the end all that matters is this - our walk with God.


*The Purpose of Christ's Coming*

islam
Jesus (Isa) will return to over-throw al-Dajjal in the battle of 'Aqabat Afiq' in *Syria*, or at the *Lud gate in Jerusalem* according to another account. Jesus will "kill all pigs and break all crosses", confirming Islam as the only true religion. After 40 years Jesus will die and be buried next to Muhammad in Medina (Islam teaches that Jesus didn't die in A.D. 33 but has been in a state of "suspended animation" since)

*jew*
he Messiah will defeat the gentile nations (Zech 14:10) and restore the kingdom of Israel (Zech 14). The Jews in exile will return and rule in an age of spiritual harmony (Zech 14:5). Isaiah 42:6 will be fulfilled and God will be recognized as the universal king (Zech 14:9).

*christian*
Jesus will come to rescue Israel, defeat the Antichrist (Rev. 19:11-21), judge the nations (Matt. 25:31-46) and the *wicked in Israel* (Ezek. 20:33-38), and rule over the messianic kingdom (Matt. 19:28; Rev. 20:1-6)

the point being God will place his judgment... notice the places of war(thought i believe that is kinda a soft word for what God will do to the non believers) and notice it is clearly stated the "wicked in israel" - as for my one sidedness i just like to show both sides. (meaning if you play one side i will look at the other to get the whole picture)

note: and i will also mention that part of end times will be signs and i believe this will be one *"The Jews will be gathered together(as they are now in the land occupied by the nation of Israel). Final battle between Muslims and Jews."* all three "religions"(for lack of a better word) have a form of this belief and stories in the Word to back them up.

check this out : tp://www.contenderministries.org/prophecy/eschatology.php

here is the good part we will see each other in heaven as we praise the Lord

----------


## amcon

> I have wondered if all of this violence is god's(Allah's) will. Maybe god wants this to happen. He is all powerful after all... The only reason I thought of this is BuffedGuy always says god willing.
> 
> 
> The other thing is that Israel is out of line on this for sure. I know that many people think that America should step aside forever with the mindless support of Israel. We need the money back home right now anyways.


*"The Jews will be gathered together(as they are now in the land occupied by the nation of Israel)for a Final battle between Muslims and Jews."*

^^^^---- this is generally agreed by muslims, jews and christians alike, 

!!!!!!!and heck ya i think we should be keep all the monies in the usa, not giving a penny out right now!!!

their is a judgment that God after he takes his thrown on earth, will judge the nations, (goat and sheep nations) i have heard/studied from several eschatologists that this is the most probable reason why a christian nation gives it support to the nation of israel, (europe as well)

does the koran talk of such judgment? that is judgment of nations? not just people...?????

----------


## amcon

> Islam the religon of peace,
> 
> 
> Buffguy do you think this looks peaceful?


i have not looked for the actuall vrs but in the bible (not sure if it is new test or old test) but it states that the decendents of Abraham though his hand maid, not his wife sharah... will be a cursed nation, cursed with unrest and tribulation(discrimination and fighting). gennerally that will be the non jewish mid eastern people...

----------


## Tock

> i have not looked for the actuall vrs but in the bible (not sure if it is new test or old test) but it states that the decendents of Abraham though his hand maid, not his wife sharah... will be a cursed nation, cursed with unrest and tribulation(discrimination and fighting). gennerally that will be the non jewish mid eastern people...


Just wanted to add a parenthetical note to this conversation . . .

Abraham's adventures are chronicled in the Book of Genesis, in the Old Testament. As you know, Genesis depicts the creation of the universe, which, according to Creation Scientists 
http://www.icr.org/recent-universe/
happened some 8000 years ago.

What is seldom mentioned amongst Christians, though, is the unhappy fact that the author of Genesis is unknown. What is an even bigger secret is the unpleasant fact that the person who wrote Genesis, who obviously was personally acquainted with both Adam and Eve, Noah, Lot, and Abraham (all noted personalities who pre-dated Moses and Pharoah), but also knew about the Kings of Israel, who lived about 1000 BC. 
We know this is true because the writer of Genesis said: "And these are the kings that reigned in the land of Edom, before there reigned any king over the children of Israel." (Genesis 36:31) So, we can deduce from this bit of trivia that this anonymous writer was either several thousand years old (much older than Methusalah), or _wasn't_ several thousand years old, which would mean that the stories in the Book of Genesis were not written until several thousand years after they happened, and then by someone who's identity is completely unknown to us. 

Now . . . if _this_ is what you're going to base your position on, proceed away . . .

----------


## NightWolf

> Your pictures/images haven't been approved yet by the mods, so I can't see them. But I am expecting the worst, lol. Maybe a few angry guys burning effigies or *with Death to this or that signs*. Or a suicide bomber...Let's wait and see...


Something in that direction  :LOL: 

Anyway what i wanted to say to you was
that i saw that you sometimes said that the
extremeists are only 5% of the muslim world.

I have to to disagre very much here,
I live in Europe and i see things and acts
that you who live in the US do not see.

In my area where i live the muslims are VERY
hostile against the way we chose to live here.
The majority of them are wahabias.

If its only 5% that are hostile then i want to know
where the remaining 90% is hiding, Im not saying
every muslim in sweden are extremeists and hostile
but they do seem to be more of them then the
other part.

Here is the video for the pictures i posted:

http://se.youtube.com/watch?v=ocU5x_03MDM

----------


## BuffedGuy

> i have not looked for the actuall vrs but in the bible (not sure if it is new test or old test) but it states that the decendents of Abraham though his hand maid, not his wife sharah... will be a cursed nation, cursed with unrest and tribulation(discrimination and fighting). gennerally that will be the non jewish mid eastern people...


Kind of like the Curse of Ham.

----------


## BuffedGuy

> Something in that direction 
> 
> Anyway what i wanted to say to you was
> that i saw that you sometimes said that the
> extremeists are only 5% of the muslim world.
> 
> I have to to disagre very much here,
> I live in Europe and i see things and acts
> that you who live in the US do not see.
> ...


I responded to your post here:

http://forums.steroid.com/showpost.p...&postcount=339

I thought it best to reply in my thread, since it is relevant there, not here.

----------


## BuffedGuy

Deleted............................

----------


## jimmyinkedup

holy war - a greater oxymoron never existed.......

----------


## amcon

> Kind of like the Curse of Ham.


yes that was what i could not think of thanks...

----------


## amcon

> Just wanted to add a parenthetical note to this conversation . . .
> 
> Abraham's adventures are chronicled in the Book of Genesis, in the Old Testament. As you know, Genesis depicts the creation of the universe, which, according to Creation Scientists 
> http://www.icr.org/recent-universe/
> happened some 8000 years ago.
> 
> What is seldom mentioned amongst Christians, though, is the unhappy fact that the author of Genesis is unknown. What is an even bigger secret is the unpleasant fact that the person who wrote Genesis, who obviously was personally acquainted with both Adam and Eve, Noah, Lot, and Abraham (all noted personalities who pre-dated Moses and Pharoah), but also knew about the Kings of Israel, who lived about 1000 BC. 
> We know this is true because the writer of Genesis said: "And these are the kings that reigned in the land of Edom, before there reigned any king over the children of Israel." (Genesis 36:31) So, we can deduce from this bit of trivia that this anonymous writer was either several thousand years old (much older than Methusalah), or _wasn't_ several thousand years old, which would mean that the stories in the Book of Genesis were not written until several thousand years after they happened, and then by someone who's identity is completely unknown to us. 
> 
> Now . . . if _this_ is what you're going to base your position on, proceed away . . .


i will be happy to correct you: 

moses wrote the book. and it was written to the people of Israel. date written 1450 - 1410. setting the region presently know as the middle east. 

purpose: TO RECORD *GOD'S* CREATION OF THE WORLD AND HIS DESIRE TO HAVE A A PEOPLE SET APART TO WORSHIP HIM 

so, lets review who wrote the book? = moses
again, review how could he have written the book? = God

is that so hard to believe? do you have kids? have you ever taught them something? like riding a bike? 

well, if you did, did you tell them exactally what to do? and instruct them on what to do? and guide them perfectly not to let them fall and hurt them selves? so it was written by the God who new all the people you quoted.


focus real good here: :What?: 
your cut and paste - "And these are the kings that reigned in the land of Edom, before there reigned any king over the children of Israel." (Genesis 36:31) 

how does disprove or prove any thing in regards to the age of the other?...


*"and these are the presidents that reigned in the land of the United States of America, Before there reigned any president of the United Nations." 
*

i am 37 years old and i just wrote that ... not thousands, and i didnt need to know each person to include them into this post.

so, if you're going to base you salvation on, the bogus info you posted proceed away... just buy an asbestos suit you will need it where you maybe going - 

but - if you dont want to go there, then just start believing the bible - reading it will help - not reading what other read and reported as trivia

 :Welcome:

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## BuffedGuy

> yes that was what i could not think of thanks...


Well, the Curse of Ham was historically used as a racist doctrine towards blacks, and was used to enslave them. It was only recently revised in the last century.

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## amcon

> Well, the Curse of Ham was historically used as a racist doctrine towards blacks, and was used to enslave them. It was only recently revised in the last century.


well, i can pull it out of the old test, so that was a long time ago(i new you had something up your sleeve but the truth is always the right answer) so the verses point to dark skinned middle easteners that are specific to a blood line... not any dark colored skin... 

to repeat it is specific to a blood line... and it is the decendents of ham (thus the curse of ham) i believe it had to do with that blood line and homosexual acts...

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## amcon

> Well, the Curse of Ham was historically used as a racist doctrine towards blacks, and was used to enslave them. It was only recently revised in the last century.


o ya - it actually was a curse handed down to one of noah's son... for the above actions(above my post)

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## BuffedGuy

> well, i can pull it out of the old test, so that was a long time ago(i new you had something up your sleeve but the truth is always the right answer) so the verses point to dark skinned middle easteners that are specific to a blood line... not any dark colored skin...


Do you agree that the Curse of Ham is a racist doctrine if applied specifically to Africans? Yes or no? I hope you say yes. If you say yes, then I say: it is equally racist to claim that it applies to Arabs.

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## amcon

> Do you agree that the Curse of Ham is a racist doctrine if applied specifically to Africans? Yes or no? I hope you say yes. If you say yes, then I say: it is equally racist to claim that it applies to Arabs.


africans maybe arabs maybe... matters where that blood line developed too... buffedguy i know from our conversations that you know the first 5 books of the bible very well, you can do the research and find out #1 who the blood line is #2 make an educated guess where those people lived...

and you are not testing/tempting me that is the word of God whether is points to you or me or a diff blood line...

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## BuffedGuy

Deleted...will respond in a bit, God-Willing.

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## RangersLTW

I found the problem and I know who is behind this all........look I got a pic of him.....bad squirrell  :AaGreen22:  :Welcome:

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## amcon

> I found the problem and I know who is behind this all........look I got a pic of him.....bad squirrell


where did that damn squirrell go???!!?!?!  :Cannon:  :0piss:  :Gun:

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## Dinosaur

> Something in that direction 
> 
> Anyway what i wanted to say to you was
> that i saw that you sometimes said that the
> extremeists are only 5% of the muslim world.
> 
> I have to to disagre very much here,
> I live in Europe and i see things and acts
> that you who live in the US do not see.
> ...


i lived in france and i have relatives in europe.
in france, its hard to survive as moslim or immgrant especially if you are black.
the first problem you face once you move there is rent. some places they wont lease you no apartment if you fall in the above categories unless the landlord is blind. 
job wise its kind like 50/50 chance to find an employer that is an open minded to hire you. if you loose your job it will take you forever to find an altenative unless you want to clean cars. even this days its hard to find that kind of job. 
now i find it very hipocritical for france and some other contries to control the way you dress. for example, a single mother has 3 kids she leaves her house with scraf on her head but once she gets to work she will take it off, simply because its the "law". what kind of law is that. if they claim that they have "democracy", how do you think this woman or her kids are feeling?
iam not saying all the frensh are bad people nor trying to offend any one.

talking about danmark, look at carton they made, what's the point of doing that? did it serve any peace? or did it build bridges?
it simply created more tensions and more violence. now if i know that something would peace you off why would i do it? not only that, i would repeat doing it. i see that's the kind of behaviour that creates extrimists. now who started it?

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## FallenWyvern

> talking about danmark, look at carton they made, what's the point of doing that? did it serve any peace? or did it build bridges?
> it simply created more tensions and more violence. now if i know that something would peace you off why would i do it? not only that, i would repeat doing it. i see that's the kind of behaviour that creates extrimists. now who started it?


The problem/controversy existed before the cartoon was made. The cartoon just brought the issue to the forefront. 

The issue/controversy is the perception that Muslim extremists are a threat to western life. This fear was confirmed by the burning down of embassies, callings for beheading, threats to kidnap, glorifying the London bombings etc. All over a cartoon. Most people find this behavior unreasonable and the gap widens.

Not that this is right but, it is what it is.

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## FallenWyvern

I need to stop reading these threads.

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## BuffedGuy

> The problem/controversy existed before the cartoon was made. The cartoon just brought the issue to the forefront. 
> 
> The issue/controversy is the perception that Muslim extremists are a threat to western life. This fear was confirmed by the burning down of embassies, callings for beheading, threats to kidnap, glorifying the London bombings etc. All over a cartoon. Most people find this behavior unreasonable and the gap widens.
> 
> Not that this is right but, it is what it is.


The reaction of the Muslims to the cartoons was inappropriate. I will dedicate a post to it in the Ask a Muslim thread.

I just want to say that Muslims are not really a threat in the West. We can't even implement Shari'ah in our own lands, due to the despotic regimes over our heads. This is when we have massive support amongst the population as a whole. So what chance do any extremist Muslims have of toppling the Western way of life? Extremists talk big, but in reality they are a very weak force. But the war-mongerers on both sides (the Muslim extremists on the one side and the neo-cons in the West on the other hand) need to pretend that they (the Muslim extremists) are really strong and can actually pose any real threat. 

The truth is that there is a lot of blame to go around. Anyways, I'm really sleepy, so I'll respond to this and other posts tomorrow, God-Willing.

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## FallenWyvern

> The reaction of the Muslims to the cartoons was inappropriate. I will dedicate a post to it in the Ask a Muslim thread.
> 
> I just want to say that Muslims are not really a threat in the West. We can't even implement Shari'ah in our own lands, due to the despotic regimes over our heads. This is when we have massive support amongst the population as a whole. So what chance do any extremist Muslims have of toppling the Western way of life? Extremists talk big, but in reality they are a very weak force. But the war-mongerers on both sides (the Muslim extremists on the one side and the neo-cons in the West on the other hand) need to pretend that they (the Muslim extremists) are really strong and can actually pose any real threat. 
> 
> The truth is that there is a lot of blame to go around. Anyways, I'm really sleepy, so I'll respond to this and other posts tomorrow, God-Willing.


Hate to put words in your mouth but I assume that when you say Muslims you mean "true" Muslims? 

It might be that true Muslims aren't a threat to Western life but....

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## BuffedGuy

> Hate to put words in your mouth but I assume that when you say Muslims you mean "true" Muslims? 
> 
> It might be that true Muslims aren't a threat to Western life but....


No, I mean *all* Muslims. Radical extremist Muslims are _not_ a real threat to the Western way of life. They are mice, and the West is the elephant. Just because a mouse talks big does not mean the elephant should think of it as a _real_ threat. This idea--that the Western way of life is on the brink of destruction due to the so-called "Islamofascists"--is just fear-mongering that benefits both the neo-cons in the West and the extremists in the Muslim east. But it is not grounded in reality. It is nothing more than an illusion bordering on lunacy. They (both the neo-cons and the terrorists) want to strike fear in your hearts, but the fear is irrational. The clown who made the Danish cartoons claims that the Muslims are taking over Europe and in his words, they (the Muslims) are just one minute away from completely taking over, toppling the government, and destroying the Western way of life. What kind of imaginary world does this guy live in? We Muslims living in the West cannot even afford a proper sized parking lot for our mosque; the Westerners have grossly over-estimated their perceived enemies. This is all part of the myth building necessary to support the neo-con agenda.

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## BuffedGuy

*FallenWyvern*, I've posted in the Ask a Muslim thread in regards to the cartoon issue. Please feel free to ask follow up questions or give input after you read it. Peace.

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