# COMPETITIVE BODYBUILDING - POWERLIFTING - ATHLETICS & SPORTS > BOXING / FIGHTING / WRESTLING >  Kimbo vs Roy Nelson

## ACJiujitsu

LOL i cant wait til next week. Any Kimbo fans wanna bet? I'll give odds

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## stpete

Isn't that the fat guy? The one their saying doesn't listen and always talks back? Gave him a little meeting in the locker room last night? My girl made me go to bed early last night. haha...
Who won the fight last night? I was kinda wanting te big guy to get knocked out.

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## Biohazard74

Kimbo will win this one AC  :Mfight:  Its going to be a good fight for 2 minutes of the 1st round until its over. You heard it here 1st  :Big Grin:  Just my prediction

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## J-Dogg

Kimbo is the biggest draw to the show, they call it TUF 10 - Kimbo Slice on most internet pages and searches. 

I duno who would win....but the show had the biggest draw of any TUF episode ever with Kimbo on it. If he lost his first match......Dana looses a lot of viewers.

If it goes to decision, Kimbo wins.

Do you think Kimbo and Big Country being seasoned fighters, will gas as bad as everyone else has?

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## terraj

IMO, if it's a unstaged fight Kimbo would only have a punches chance. Maybe Roy is told to stand and fight....or he gets to fight smart and wins easy.

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## icepick27

kimbo is definlitly a underdog and i hope he wins it will be good for the sport. and besides roy nelson looks like a know it all ,and it is a disgrace to be a pro and have a friggin gut like that .. i mean what the **** the guy gets paid to work out ,having a gut like that and being out of shape means he dont give a **** about the sport i hope kimbo kos's him

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## ACJiujitsu

> Kimbo will win this one AC  Its going to be a good fight for 2 minutes of the 1st round until its over. You heard it here 1st  Just my prediction


LOL maybe. if you wanna know who won for sure i'll send you a PM.

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## Brown Ninja

I hope he wins but I can't see how.

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## xlxBigSexyxlx

Kimbo will win.

Say or bye bye to thousands of viewers after only 3 weeks, including me lol.

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## xnotoriousx

kimbo probably won't win this one... I just don't think there's a chance in hell.

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## ACJiujitsu

> kimbo probably won't win this one... I just don't think there's a chance in hell.


ding,ding,ding,ding we have a winner

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## Big

I like Kimbo, but I'll be surprised if Big Country doesn't hand him his ass.

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## xlxBigSexyxlx

Ya'll actually think Dana will let Kimbo the money maker go within 3 weeks? 

Fat Country is probably getting a nice paycheck to hit the mat.

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## ACJiujitsu

> Ya'll actually think Dana will let Kimbo the money maker go within 3 weeks? 
> 
> Fat Country is probably getting a nice paycheck to hit the mat.


lol.dont forget even if Kimbo loses,he still stays in the house,plus if someone gets hurt he could be brought back. One thing is for sure,he wont beat Roy.

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## WARMachine

*IDK... Roy is fatter than usual, and has been KO'd by a big puncher before.

With that being said, i hope he pummels Kimbo until all that is left of him is a bread and two gold "teef"*

*-WAR*

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## Biohazard74

> LOL maybe. if you wanna know who won for sure i'll send you a PM.


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO dont ruin it damnit !! lol :Chairshot:

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## rockinred

I think whatever happens will be the truth.. I think Dana's perspective to Kimbo is that you want to be in the cage, then here is your shot. I don't care for Dana, but I don't think he will pay someone off... If he really wanted Kimbo for cash he would have just got him some fights without all this. I think this fight should be legit. Besides, only way kimbo wins is if he knocks out Roy. You can't fake that shit and fool everyone. I will be looking for that.

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## zimmy

I agree it's legit...Dana played it out well...if kimbo looses he can say that the guy is a chump just like he said and he showed it to everyone. if Kimbo wins or goes further he can say that is why he let kimbo on the show to prove himself.

If he wanted it to happen one way or the other he would have been playing it up better.

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## ghettoboyd

i think its legit too......and im glad kimbo is getting a shot.....the man is in great shape for a backyard brawler and he seems to work hard at learning the sport....i know there are a lot of haters or whatever but i like him, he humble and hes not asking anything from anyone exept to fight....give him a chance i say....

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## BG

> i think its legit too......and im glad kimbo is getting a shot.....the man is in great shape for a backyard brawler and he seems to work hard at learning the sport....i know there are a lot of haters or whatever but i like him, he humble and hes not asking anything from anyone exept to fight....give him a chance i say....


My thoughts exactly !!!

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## Knockout_Power

Havent been watching TUF, but Kimbo (with a good game plan) took out Mercer who has way more power than any MMA fighter. Mercer put Timmy out for being a dumbass. Kimbo may have a good shot if he is smart. Granted he lost to Seth, but who knows. I dont like the guy, but he is good for ratings.

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## Brown Ninja

Hell I hope he wins. Watch out Lesnar

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## Deltasaurus

kimbo gets ko'd in 2nd round

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## ectomorph28

Roy is the best fighter on the show. Kimbo wont win this. 

But he would have beat the majority of the guys who fought already. The wrestler in the first episode would likely beat him though.

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## ghettoboyd

> Hell I hope he wins. Watch out Lesnar


i think the sport need heavyer hevyweights if anyone is going to beat lesnar he is just too dam big....if he gets you on the ground your done....

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## Brown Ninja

Who is next after Lesnar destroys Carwin?

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## Biohazard74

> Who is next after Lesnar destroys Carwin?


Noone! He might as well retire. Unless Dana White decides to put Minotauro on him.

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## ACJiujitsu

Cant wait for lesnar/Carwin. Finally someone who can come close to Brocks size

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## Deltasaurus

> *IDK... Roy is fatter than usual, and has been KO'd by a big puncher before.
> 
> With that being said, i hope he pummels Kimbo until all that is left of him is a bread and two gold "teef"*
> 
> *-WAR*


He has gotten Ko'd before he
ate some some huge punches from Arlovski who hits twice as hard as kimbo, i think Kimbo's power is overated he Couldn't knock out glass jawed Thompson,
He knocked out tank and thats it, and tank isnt a martial artist.

On paper Nelson takes this any way he wants, but well see what happens

im taking nelson in the 2nd

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## ACJiujitsu

see told you. Everyone that got the PM from me,never doubt my sources. Should have been over in the 1st.

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## Big

what a lame fight though

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## sportfan33

Alright, that fat guy won. He laid on him and punched him, and the ref called the fight? His punches didnt even look hard, but even if the ref didnt call the fight, i dont think kimbo would have been able ton push him off. DANG IT

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## Big

win via lardass. no power, just lay your fat ass on someone and drop weak punches till it's stopped. I'm glad it wasn't ppv.

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## xlxBigSexyxlx

That was lame....

oooo I can sit on you and punch you like a 12 year old girl....lol

give me a break... fat ass

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## yannick35

Fat mofo asked for a cheeseburger right after the fight.

I don't see why a guy like him did not go straight to UFC PPV after all he got a great record won a lot in the IFL and got tone of experience?

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## ACJiujitsu

LOL at the fact that Kimbo is fighting on the Ultimate fighter and doesnt even Know a proper defense to being mounted. Thats something that every white belt learns there 1st week of class. I think it was way funnier this way,and it shows just how well someone with no ground game will do in a fight

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## Big

true, Kimbo handed him the mount

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## doo928

so disappointed in this fight! really would have liked to seen kimbo put down fat boy nelson...that gut - what a disgrace! nelson's punches were so weak..my 13 year old niece can hit harder than that!!! can't really blame kimbo, he was suffocating under all that fat!

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## ACJiujitsu

> so disappointed in this fight! really would have liked to seen kimbo put down fat boy nelson...that gut - what a disgrace! nelson's punches were so weak..my 13 year old niece can hit harder than that!!! can't really blame kimbo, he was suffocating under all that fat!


if he knew how to fight he would have gotten out. Why take a chance and break your hand,when you have the guy crucifixed with no escape? You dont have to hit him,if he cant defend himself. Kimbo should be happy that Roy didnt blast him 20 times in a row..Twice

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## Biohazard74

Wow what a crappy fight. AC you were right. Dude when Kimbo goes to the ground its like if someone gave him shrooms & is lost in lala land & cant move. No squirming, no pushing off nothing of anything.  :Owned:

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## Necrosaro

A very bad fight indeed!

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## J-Dogg

Did anyone catch the begining where Team Rashad was talking with Roy at the table?

He was planning this the entire time. 

He said get him in that exact position, and just slap him on the head, count off the hits, so the ref has to call the fight, he said look right at the ref, and just tap him. They have to call the fight, even if the guy's not hurt, unanswered blows/not defending.

Really though, I think it's almost a "loop" in the rules. When you are laying on a guys face, hitting on top of the head, it would be REALLY hard to knock someone out. IMO that would be more of a submission than a KO. Kimbo was really in no danger, or in danger of taking much damage. In a position like that, it's almost a stale mate, the ref just as well could stand them back up. Roy can't hurt him, Kimbo can't get out, it's a laying match.

Judging from the fight though, and we already knew Kimbo has a lot too learn, but Roy defiantly went from a top fighter, down a few slots. Very unimpressive fighting by him.

He's clever, and used his belly well, but it's not an effective plan against anyone with more training.

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## Big

> Did anyone catch the begining where Team Rashad was talking with Roy at the table?
> 
> He was planning this the entire time. 
> 
> He said get him in that exact position, and just slap him on the head, count off the hits, so the ref has to call the fight, he said look right at the ref, and just tap him. They have to call the fight, even if the guy's not hurt, unanswered blows/not defending.
> 
> Really though, I think it's almost a "loop" in the rules. When you are laying on a guys face, hitting on top of the head, it would be REALLY hard to knock someone out. IMO that would be more of a submission than a KO. Kimbo was really in no danger, or in danger of taking much damage. In a position like that, it's almost a stale mate, the ref just as well could stand them back up. Roy can't hurt him, Kimbo can't get out, it's a laying match.
> 
> Judging from the fight though, and we already knew Kimbo has a lot too learn, but Roy defiantly went from a top fighter, down a few slots. Very unimpressive fighting by him.
> ...


yeah I saw that when I watched the tape, I had missed the beginning. I expected more of Roy. like you I never felt Kimbo was in any danger, sad that the rules allow for that.

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## zimmy

God...so sick of hearing this sh*t. Girls hit harder blah blah blah. Lets look at facts here...kimbo has no ground game...he didn't even block the mount from the half mount and HE DID NOT WORK ON THE GROUND. I mean you want Roy to sit there and break his knuckles on the top of kimbo's head when kimbo wasn't doing sh*t? Seriously, I wish he would have just went for the submission that he toyed with while on top. I think he was playing with him...showing people just how unfit Kimbo is to be fighting top fighters. 

The idea of standing fighters up is when both parties are working...and he was hitting kimbo continiously in the head...he wasn't just sitting on top stalling...

This rule has been around for a while, why do they stop fighters when they are dazed but still awake on the ground? It's not because they are dazed it's because they are not fighting intelligently. I know I'm gonna blasted by so many people who thought Kimbo was all that, but truth is, most people who train bjj would not how NOT to get in those positions.

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## J-Dogg

> yeah I saw that when I watched the tape, I had missed the beginning. I expected more of Roy. like you I never felt Kimbo was in any danger, sad that the rules allow for that.


I agree, I just don't see how they can call it a KO either. If he can flail his legs, and attempt to push off....just seems like that is defending or attempting to escape the position. 

The only danger he had, was suffocation.

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## zimmy

> I agree, I just don't see how they can call it a KO either. If he can flail his legs, and attempt to push off....just seems like that is defending or attempting to escape the position. 
> 
> The only danger he had, was suffocation.


The thing was he didn't attempt to push off and didn't know enough to use his hips and the floor to push him off. And if you watch the fight again you will see roy put his arm in 2 positions for submissions and then let go of them after less than a second with no resistance from kimbo...

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## liftsmore

> so disappointed in this fight! really would have liked to seen kimbo put down fat boy nelson...that gut - what a disgrace! nelson's punches were so weak..my 13 year old niece can hit harder than that!!! can't really blame kimbo, he was suffocating under all that fat!


totally agreed, the fight ended too early. Those were weak punches to the top of his head. Should have stood them up. 

Kimbo definitely looked better on his feet but he definitely has no ground game.

I used to not like Kimbo but he does seem humble and now I'm starting to dig the guy more. Roy on the other hand is a douche.

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## rockinred

> God...so sick of hearing this sh*t. Girls hit harder blah blah blah. Lets look at facts here...kimbo has no ground game...he didn't even block the mount from the half mount and HE DID NOT WORK ON THE GROUND. I mean you want Roy to sit there and break his knuckles on the top of kimbo's head when kimbo wasn't doing sh*t? Seriously, I wish he would have just went for the submission that he toyed with while on top. I think he was playing with him...showing people just how unfit Kimbo is to be fighting top fighters. 
> 
> The idea of standing fighters up is when both parties are working...and he was hitting kimbo continiously in the head...he wasn't just sitting on top stalling...
> 
> This rule has been around for a while, why do they stop fighters when they are dazed but still awake on the ground? It's not because they are dazed it's because they are not fighting intelligently. I know I'm gonna blasted by so many people who thought Kimbo was all that, but truth is, most people who train bjj would not how NOT to get in those positions.


Either way you slice it, that was a piss poor victory. If Roy was the epitome of some game ass BJJ expert taking Kimbo to school... that was shitty to say the least. All he did was lay on Kimbo's face suffocating him and that was it. Everyone knows that putting your hands in the opponents face causes them to suffocate and gas... now, use your belly like this and that is ten times worse. A victory? Yes, but a piss poor deomonstration of Kimbo getting owned by a submitter. It sucked and face the fact that Roy used blubber to victory. Not really anything anyone really cares to see. I don't see Roy doing anything special in the UFC except bring a weight problem into a fight. Even if I was pulling for Roy, I would be dissappointed to say the least. I have seen many fatboys win fights by just laying on top of a dude in the streets. This was absolutely no different. what a waste of hype. 

I know you like BJJ, but I wouldn't claim Roy as a part of that art. Only dudes that should be excited for Roy's victory in this fight are obese guys. He shows that an obese dude can lay on someone and suffocate them and win.

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## Deltasaurus

> totally agreed, the fight ended too early. Those were weak punches to the top of his head. Should have stood them up. 
> *If u watched though show roy said all you have to do is get dominant position and throw little punches and the ref has to stop the fight, Stand them up? lol when one guy is being completely dominant on top and punching their opponent u cannot stand it up, roy was being nice and chose not to sub him with the many sub choices he had being a black belt under Renzo*
> 
> 
> Kimbo definitely looked better on his feet but he definitely has no ground game.*LOL are u serious i man yes his ground game was a F, 1st day white belt for sure, but serious his striking is a D-, people say guy should stand up and fight, well if kimbo is such a striker why doesnt he go into K-1 or Boxing for that matter and make a ton more money*
> 
> 
> 
> I used to not like Kimbo but he does seem humble and now I'm starting to dig the guy more. Roy on the other hand is a douche.


*Very funny how the film the show, Kimbo the street thug is now, Humble and wants to learn, while Roy is portrayed as the fat uncoachable slob.
Dont by into them buddy*


In the end remember roy said he likes kimbo and they are roommates roy made dana look like an idiot if you know anything about MMA or BJJ for that matter you can see roy did as little as possible to win, he went about 30% took kimbo down in seconds, put him in a crucifix as kimbo offered no resistance and then he punched him very lightly and counted his punches so the ref had to stop it why kimbo did not defend himself or anything lol.
What did u want roy to elbow him to death or kimura his far arm he had pinned and tear his shoulder?

if u think this is the real nelson think again and watch his fights.
In ADCC he beat Monson and Mir


-AJ

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## Deltasaurus

> win via lardass. no power, just lay your fat ass on someone and drop weak punches till it's stopped. I'm glad it wasn't ppv.


Trust me if it was PPV roy would have hurt him, he did the least amount possible to win and to piss dana off.

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## xnotoriousx

I wonder who kimbo will fight next, looked like he was going to get another shot.

Rampage cut his hair like kimbo... lol I died laughing

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## ghettoboyd

it kind of sucks that roy won...i wanted kimbo to do better cus hes worked hard and is in amazing shape.....if he could get a fight with an oponent who like to stand up at least the fight would go longer and we could see what kimbos got for a chin but i understand the stratagy of taking him down...hes got nothing, he didnt even try to escape.....

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## Hunter

No intelligent fighter in tuf is going to do more then it takes to win he has 2 fights left why risk injury? Kimbo layed there that is all he did, flat on his back and got punched in the head. He was not intelligently defending himself and the fight should have been stopped. 

For everyone calling him fat, this is mma not bodybuilding. Bj penn isnt overly muscular at all and is chubby at 170 and would still put the hurt on 99% of 170 pounders. Fedor is chubby is as well. Ben Rothwell is also. If you dont like him cause of his performance fine but enough with the fat comments. 

No one would make a comment that Kimbo didnt win cause he is ghetto trash and cant learn would they?

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## rockinred

I will stick with my analysis of what I saw. Kimbo got bumm rushed and then laid on and suffocated. We use to call that bumm rush when I grew up... now all of the sudden, it must be some sort of mastery take down skill because it was Roy against Kimbo.  :Aajack: 

In the first round Kimbo did use his hips for leverage and the cage to shift and almost rolled out of it. Roy shifted his weight and Kimbo was not able to do it... The second round it was over when Roy laid on his face and Kimbo knew there was no way of getting him off him. There was nothing tactical about it. It was simply a guy laying on another dude. Basically it was a dude pinning him down on his back like the goals of a wrestling match. Nothing we want to see in the cage. 

Here is the sad thing. Kimbo is said to be a big disgrace to MMA because of his background. I think Roy is equally a disgrace because of his weight and how he carried himself in episode two. After this fight he ran up and said get me some cheeseburgers. Making a mockery. 

There is no TV hype with a guy playing up to be a bad guy when the camp has to call you in and let you know that you are not a team player and your doing your own thing. That to me is a disgrace to MMA. I have a feeling the hate for Kimbo has nothing to do with him disgracing MMA, it has some other underlying reason. 

BJ Penn and Fedor are no disgrace and show great talent and have never laid on their opponent to victory. Get up and start asking for cheeseburgers afterward. Just flat out obnoctious and disrespectful. Totally different scenario imo and no comparison.

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## Deltasaurus

^^LOL u really believe that, guess u have never seen roys real fights,

bottom line is he said what he was going to do the night before, how fights could be stopped like that, he went 30% took kimbo down and did nuthing to win, hes a BB in BJJ under Renzo gracie, he could have done anything he want from the most dominant position in MMA lol

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## rockinred

A,

Nah I haven't seen a whole lot of Roy's fights and I don't care to. That was hardly a master display of BJJ, whether he is a BB or not. Bottom line to many his victory sucked. Many have volcalized it and that is where I am coming from. I would have much rather seen Kimbo get rolled and dominated on the floor, but that just didn't happen. Not because of any great defense that Kimbo did, it was just that Roy showed a weak victory that just flat out laid on the oppononent with nothing more. I have seen the crucifix demonstrated many times and this was the first I have ever seen it in that manner when a guy just lays on top of another and bitch slaps the top of his head.. come on dude that sucked.

Also, what's all this 30% talk? If he only gave 30% it goes to show he is a slacker. he is on national tv, he should give 100% and dominant even moresoe. You are really nuthugging this dude to say that.

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## zimmy

> I will stick with my analysis of what I saw. Kimbo got bumm rushed and then laid on and suffocated. We use to call that bumm rush when I grew up... now all of the sudden, it must be some sort of mastery take down skill because it was Roy against Kimbo.  *Look again...first "bum rush" Roy put his foot behind his...this is a text book sweep...2nd "bum rush" was even worse because Kimbo hit Roy in the face and had him a little but he was taken down again and had the mind set to land in side mount. You think it's easy...try to do it ...then try to do it again when you just got hit in the face and land in perfect side control*
> 
> In the first round Kimbo did use his hips for leverage and the cage to shift and almost rolled out of it.*This is why alot of people disagree here...google mount escape ..there are video's...then you can see what the proper use of hips looks like. Then you can see why that was anything more than desperation....also i'm not sure but i think there are rules about using the fence, not that it matters* Roy shifted his weight and Kimbo was not able to do it*Yah...Roy should have just stayed stiff and let kimbo roll him to make it fair*... The second round it was over when Roy laid on his face and Kimbo knew there was no way of getting him off him. There was nothing tactical about it. It was simply a guy laying on another dude. Basically it was a dude pinning him down on his back like the goals of a wrestling match. Nothing we want to see in the cage. *Um..there actually is a few ways to get some one off of you when they are that high up on you. Giving them your arm so you they can pin it under their leg is not one of them*
> 
> Here is the sad thing. Kimbo is said to be a big disgrace to MMA because of his background. I think Roy is equally a disgrace because of his weight and how he carried himself in episode two. After this fight he ran up and said get me some cheeseburgers. Making a mockery. *If I had people talking sh*t about me after I earned a title calling me b*tch tit's and what not, you are damn straight i'm gonna make some jokes when i embarress one of the "best" there.*
> 
> There is no TV hype with a guy playing up to be a bad guy when the camp has to call you in and let you know that you are not a team player and your doing your own thing. That to me is a disgrace to MMA. I have a feeling the hate for Kimbo has nothing to do with him disgracing MMA, it has some other underlying reason. 
> 
> BJ Penn and Fedor are no disgrace and show great talent and have never laid on their opponent to victory. Get up and start asking for cheeseburgers afterward. Just flat out obnoctious and disrespectful. Totally different scenario imo and no comparison.



Seriously...I know it's not as interesting to some of you as seeing two people stand toe to toe and beat each other bloody instead of fighting a smart fight...but the ground game is very exciting when you get to know the little things that make the difference between a sloppy attempt and smoothly going from one sub attempt to another...so this fight was NOT exactly the most entertaining...but to sit here and blast Roy cus Kimbo sucked...it's just retarded.

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## Deltasaurus

> A,
> 
> Nah I haven't seen a whole lot of Roy's fights and I don't care to. That was hardly a master display of BJJ, whether he is a BB or not. Bottom line to many his victory sucked. Many have volcalized it and that is where I am coming from. I would have much rather seen Kimbo get rolled and dominated on the floor, but that just didn't happen. Not because of any great defense that Kimbo did, it was just that Roy showed a weak victory that just flat out laid on the oppononent with nothing more. I have seen the crucifix demonstrated many times and this was the first I have ever seen it in that manner when a guy just lays on top of another and bitch slaps the top of his head.. come on dude that sucked.
> 
> Also, what's all this 30% talk? If he only gave 30% it goes to show he is a slacker. he is on national tv, he should give 100% and dominant even moresoe. You are really nuthugging this dude to say that.


Not saying it wasnt boring, but look at this, Roy said he liked kimbo, dudes not a dick, chose to win the easiest way possible without hurting anyone,
he didnt even break a sweat,
Dana said the fighters should take the easiest path to victory.
He is not getting paid shit why go 100% 
u really think he couldnt have elbowed kimbo?
or Kimura'd the arms he had pinned?
or transitioned to mount and pounded him?

Honestly bro he went light to just not hurt the guy, he is not what u think he is

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## zimmy

> Not saying it wasnt boring, but look at this, Roy said he liked kimbo, dudes not a dick, chose to win the easiest way possible without hurting anyone,
> he didnt even break a sweat,
> Dana said the fighters should take the easiest path to victory.
> He is not getting paid shit why go 100% 
> u really think he couldnt have elbowed kimbo?
> or Kimura'd the arms he had pinned?
> or transitioned to mount and pounded him?
> 
> Honestly bro he went light to just not hurt the guy, he is not what u think he is


Yah...When i saw him grab his arm and get it in position to submit him but then let go...showed me that he was alot nicer than me, that's for sure.

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## Deltasaurus

http://mma.fanhouse.com/2009/10/01/r...-slice-on-tuf/


awesome read, what happend

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## rockinred

> http://mma.fanhouse.com/2009/10/01/r...-slice-on-tuf/
> 
> 
> awesome read, what happend


That was a good read. If you read between the lines he says a lot about how everything shakes down. Crazy.

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## Deltasaurus

^^^ yup

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## rockinred

Alright, but here is the million dollar question.

Why is Roy Nelson in the TUF show anyway? If he is really that good and has that many fights...why is he in the show? All it does is make it unfair to the others. I mean, where do you draw the line. Why not have Fedor in there or someone like that from a different org. 

Most of the shows have studs and show the development of fighters, but this guy has been fighting top level dudes like Arlovski and stuff. That would put him in a different class than TUF and what does he have to prove to the UFC or anyone else for that matter? Seems silly to me.

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## southmadejd

I have a question for the people that train in here.....since Kimbo has come onto the MMA scene and trained with some reputable gyms, shouldn't he have much better take down defense then what he has at the moment? I mean if I was his trainer I would play to his strengths while teaching him the ground game. I mean he is going against some guys who have trained BJJ and/or wrestled for years so it will take time for him to learn the ground game, but I think he should at least be able to stuff some take downs. Does anybody agree with me? That Kimbo should at least be farther along by now with his take down defense?

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## WARMachine

*You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink.


Hes only been with ATT for a short time, and before that he was with Bas. And thats hardly the guy you want to train with to learn technical grappling.
Regardless of what people think, the ground game is not something that is easily mastered. Ive got credentials that would make most people piss, but ive been taken down before in competition. Not often, but it has happened. 

Kimbo hasnt been training long enough with the right people to develop the skills to hang with a guy the caliber of Roy Nelson. I will say that Kimbo was wrecking Roy standing, and thats nothing to hang your head about.*

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## ACJiujitsu

> Did anyone catch the begining where Team Rashad was talking with Roy at the table?
> 
> He was planning this the entire time. 
> 
> He said get him in that exact position, and just slap him on the head, count off the hits, so the ref has to call the fight, he said look right at the ref, and just tap him. They have to call the fight, even if the guy's not hurt, unanswered blows/not defending.
> 
> Really though, I think it's almost a "loop" in the rules. When you are laying on a guys face, hitting on top of the head, it would be REALLY hard to knock someone out. IMO that would be more of a submission than a KO. Kimbo was really in no danger, or in danger of taking much damage. In a position like that, it's almost a stale mate, the ref just as well could stand them back up. Roy can't hurt him, Kimbo can't get out, it's a laying match.
> 
> Judging from the fight though, and we already knew Kimbo has a lot too learn, but Roy defiantly went from a top fighter, down a few slots. Very unimpressive fighting by him.
> ...


Watch that clip again. Roy says "Like i did" . Most people think that converstaion happened the night before the fight, It didnt.He talked about it after the fight to the guy that they bring Kimbo back to fight. Wanna know who he fights?

----------


## ACJiujitsu

> A,
> 
> Nah I haven't seen a whole lot of Roy's fights and I don't care to.  That was hardly a master display of BJJ, whether he is a BB or not. Bottom line to many his victory sucked. Many have volcalized it and that is where I am coming from. I would have much rather seen Kimbo get rolled and dominated on the floor, but that just didn't happen. Not because of any great defense that Kimbo did, it was just that Roy showed a weak victory that just flat out laid on the oppononent with nothing more. I have seen the crucifix demonstrated many times and this was the first I have ever seen it in that manner when a guy just lays on top of another and bitch slaps the top of his head.. come on dude that sucked.
> 
> Also, what's all this 30% talk? If he only gave 30% it goes to show he is a slacker. he is on national tv, he should give 100% and dominant even moresoe. You are really nuthugging this dude to say that.


LOL wtf are you talking about? Kimbo did get dominated on the floor. He got mounted theen Roy gave up the mount to go to the crucifix twice. If thats not dominated then i dont know what is. You must be one of those "Just bleed" guys that doesnt understand technique.Not every fight has to be a knock down drag out war,especially when your fighting for the biggest oppurtunity of your life.

----------


## ACJiujitsu

> Either way you slice it, that was a piss poor victory. If Roy was the epitome of some game ass BJJ expert taking Kimbo to school... that was shitty to say the least. All he did was lay on Kimbo's face suffocating him and that was it. Everyone knows that putting your hands in the opponents face causes them to suffocate and gas... now, use your belly like this and that is ten times worse. A victory? Yes, but a piss poor deomonstration of Kimbo getting owned by a submitter. It sucked and face the fact that Roy used blubber to victory. Not really anything anyone really cares to see. I don't see Roy doing anything special in the UFC except bring a weight problem into a fight. Even if I was pulling for Roy, I would be dissappointed to say the least. I have seen many fatboys win fights by just laying on top of a dude in the streets. This was absolutely no different. what a waste of hype. 
> 
> I know you like BJJ, but I wouldn't claim Roy as a part of that art. Only dudes that should be excited for Roy's victory in this fight are obese guys. He shows that an obese dude can lay on someone and suffocate them and win.


yet he beat a big tough muscle bound dude! Whats that tell you? LOL it doesnt matter what your body looks like its what kind of cardio and muscle endurance you have. Roy proved that. Kimbo put his head under roys belly so he didnt get hit. Whats Roy suppossed to give up the most DOMINATE posistion in MMA so a bunch of guys can see a little blood. Give it up

----------


## roid_rage

> I will stick with my analysis of what I saw. Kimbo got bumm rushed and then laid on and suffocated. We use to call that bumm rush when I grew up... now all of the sudden, it must be some sort of mastery take down skill because it was Roy against Kimbo. 
> 
> In the first round Kimbo did use his hips for leverage and the cage to shift and almost rolled out of it. Roy shifted his weight and Kimbo was not able to do it... The second round it was over when Roy laid on his face and Kimbo knew there was no way of getting him off him. There was nothing tactical about it. It was simply a guy laying on another dude. Basically it was a dude pinning him down on his back like the goals of a wrestling match. Nothing we want to see in the cage. 
> 
> Here is the sad thing. Kimbo is said to be a big disgrace to MMA because of his background. I think Roy is equally a disgrace because of his weight and how he carried himself in episode two. After this fight he ran up and said get me some cheeseburgers. Making a mockery. 
> 
> There is no TV hype with a guy playing up to be a bad guy when the camp has to call you in and let you know that you are not a team player and your doing your own thing. That to me is a disgrace to MMA. I have a feeling the hate for Kimbo has nothing to do with him disgracing MMA, it has some other underlying reason. 
> 
> BJ Penn and Fedor are no disgrace and show great talent and have never laid on their opponent to victory. Get up and start asking for cheeseburgers afterward. Just flat out obnoctious and disrespectful. Totally different scenario imo and no comparison.


man, I really dont want to sound desrepectful, but stick to boxing if you only like guys ripping their heads off, getting someone into a crucifix TWICE, and punch him in the head 60 times IS NO LAY N PRAY... for real man, this isnt boxing, nor MT nor Kickboxing, this is MMA, and the ground game is a very important, and getting a crucifix is a very good move....

----------


## Deltasaurus

everyone needs to read this http://mma.fanhouse.com/2009/10/01/r...-slice-on-tuf/

----------


## rockinred

> man, I really dont want to sound desrepectful, but stick to boxing if you only like guys ripping their heads off, getting someone into a crucifix TWICE, and punch him in the head 60 times IS NO LAY N PRAY... for real man, this isnt boxing, nor MT nor Kickboxing, this is MMA, and the ground game is a very important, and getting a crucifix is a very good move....


AC, Roid, 

The conversation and opinions are over from my perspective. No need to come in and try and put me in my place. 

Roid how old are you? 

I was 18 when I first started watching UFC 1. yes that's right UFC 1 and I have watched it ever since. Just because I like certain types of fight styles don't give me this BS. You aren't going to sit here and tell me whether or not I am a fan or fit to have an opinion of any sport. You are the type of guy that cracks me up. You think that the only guys who are fans are the ones with the same perspective as you. Get real, man. Lot of fans and FIGHTERS out there differ and like different things. So seriously, see it how you will and I will how I will. Dude, I am 35 and have been in boxing, wrestling, shotokan, tai kwan do, and recently getting into BJJ for fun.... big fight fan and was a street fighter as a kid growing up. I still like my thing and call things how I see it. So what? So is Rampage and everyone that thought Kimbo had a chance, just a dum knit wit too like me? I don't think so.

I hate that people think that a person has no right to like any other fighting style other than the one they are into. I like jiujitsu, but BJJ automatically = mma is not a true statement. If it was only BJJ or grapling only then it would be called a BJJ tournament or a pancrase tournament. Should I tell you to just stick to those tournaments because you like that style the most? Nah, thats the way your mind works not mine.

----------


## rockinred

> Alright, but here is the million dollar question.
> 
> Why is Roy Nelson in the TUF show anyway? If he is really that good and has that many fights...why is he in the show? All it does is make it unfair to the others. I mean, where do you draw the line. Why not have Fedor in there or someone like that from a different org. 
> 
> Most of the shows have studs and show the development of fighters, but this guy has been fighting top level dudes like Arlovski and stuff. That would put him in a different class than TUF and what does he have to prove to the UFC or anyone else for that matter? Seems silly to me.


Seriously tho.. can someone answer this question for me please. Or what's your opinion on this?

----------


## ACJiujitsu

I have to ask this.....Explain whats a street fighter? Because ive been in tons of fights growing up. Im from North jersey,about 15 minutes outside staten island. Ive been stabbed and hit with numerous weapons. I actual have trained for a long time,at wrestling,and boxing when i was young and BJJ as i got older. I have trained with some of the best guys in the world. yet i would NEVER EVER say i was a street fighter.So please explain to me what that entails.After this then i will continue to debate you.

----------


## rockinred

AC, you know exactly what it means... it means been in some real fights... You know the ones where no ref is involved... real fights. Whether you would refer yourself as a street fighter or not, it doesn't matter to me. I am not trying to flatter anyone, just giving some history because I am being told that I don't wtf I am talking about. Do I really need to elaborate.? You act like if I was boasting about it.. and then you go on to say you've been stabbed and had plenty of fights, but you wouldn't call it a street fighter? Ok, so I called it that, and it is a play on words that's about it. No difference. There are plenty of warriors out there...there is plenty of untapped killer instinctive people out there that are not prize fighting. I have seen it endless times.

Anyways... can pleaasee please continue to discuss this with me. If not my feelings might get hurt.

----------


## roid_rage

> AC, Roid, 
> 
> The conversation and opinions are over from my perspective. No need to come in and try and put me in my place. 
> 
> Roid how old are you? 
> 
> I was 18 when I first started watching UFC 1. yes that's right UFC 1 and I have watched it ever since. Just because I like certain types of fight styles don't give me this BS. You aren't going to sit here and tell me whether or not I am a fan or fit to have an opinion of any sport. You are the type of guy that cracks me up. You think that the only guys who are fans are the ones with the same perspective as you. Get real, man. Lot of fans and FIGHTERS out there differ and like different things. So seriously, see it how you will and I will how I will. Dude, I am 35 and have been in boxing, wrestling, shotokan, tai kwan do, and recently getting into BJJ for fun.... big fight fan and was a street fighter as a kid growing up. I still like my thing and call things how I see it. So what? So is Rampage and everyone that thought Kimbo had a chance, just a dum knit wit too like me? I don't think so.
> 
> I hate that people think that a person has no right to like any other fighting style other than the one they are into. I like jiujitsu, but BJJ automatically = mma is not a true statement. If it was only BJJ or grapling only then it would be called a BJJ tournament or a pancrase tournament. Should I tell you to just stick to those tournaments because you like that style the most? Nah, thats the way your mind works not mine.


Dude, there is no freaking problem with you liking the striking aspect of MMA over the grappling, not one single problem, but dont call bs win, or LnP a crucifix, or all the names you called Roy's win, Im no one to say if you are a MMA fan or not, but seriusly man, giving all that sh** to someone who made a good move TWICE (how many times do you see someone putting on a crucifix TWICE the same guy???) Its more than obvius are are prone to critizice and downplay the ground game, and even that is all right, but dont go and say all Roy did was lnP, because that's bs, it was a good move, and anyone in who knows something about the ground game will say so, that was a beautiful display of grappling over striking, nothing more...

Here the problem seems to be that the guy on botton was kimbo slice, if it was some other dude, ppl will be just ok...

By the way, im 29 and been around MMA from the start as well... .

----------


## roid_rage

> Seriously tho.. can someone answer this question for me please. Or what's your opinion on this?


I agree, Roy in the show is ridiculous... I've always said that TUF should be all about discovering new talent, not a way for some stablished fighters to get into the UFC...

----------


## rockinred

Roid,

Ok, i think you made some valid points that I can shut up on. Like the point on the crucifix twice in the same match... Let me just stick to my perspective that I wasn't impressed with Ol Roy. That's all.. the dude was disrespectful to others in his camp and I come from old school of being respectful regardless... I mean he did sign up to play the game... play the game whether it was bs to him or not. To get called out like that by the coach is a lame to me. He lost some points on the like factor. After that he started acting solid... so I don't know. I get attracted to fighters based on their persona too. I can't stand truly arrogant fighters that think they are better than others. When he came off like that, I was like I hope he gets ktfo. 

Anyways good enough for me then.  :Smilie:

----------


## roid_rage

> Roid,
> 
> Ok, i think you made some valid points that I can shut up on. Like the point on the crucifix twice in the same match... Let me just stick to my perspective that I wasn't impressed with Ol Roy. That's all.. the dude was disrespectful to others in his camp and I come from old school of being respectful regardless... I mean he did sign up to play the game... play the game whether it was bs to him or not. To get called out like that by the coach is a lame to me. He lost some points on the like factor. After that he started acting solid... so I don't know. I get attracted to fighters based on their persona too. I can't stand truly arrogant fighters that think they are better than others. When he came off like that, I was like I hope he gets ktfo. 
> 
> Anyways good enough for me then.


You are totally allow to like or dislike a guy base on whatever you want man... It's totally fine. I my self also found pretty annoying the way roy behaved, hes kind of full of himself I think...

----------


## ACJiujitsu

> Roid,
> 
> Ok, i think you made some valid points that I can shut up on. Like the point on the crucifix twice in the same match... Let me just stick to my perspective that I wasn't impressed with Ol Roy. That's all.. the dude was disrespectful to others in his camp and I come from old school of being respectful regardless... I mean he did sign up to play the game... play the game whether it was bs to him or not. To get called out like that by the coach is a lame to me. He lost some points on the like factor. After that he started acting solid... so I don't know. I get attracted to fighters based on their persona too. I can't stand truly arrogant fighters that think they are better than others. When he came off like that, I was like I hope he gets ktfo. 
> 
> Anyways good enough for me then.


you have to remember one thing,the show is editied to show that way. We've heard many times before that the show is not at all what you see. So i dont know how you can say anyone was being disrespectful. From my view he was very respectful to Rashad and the others when he was being chastised. He didnt argue at all. You saw what everyone else saw in that dressing room. The coach yelled while Roy said 2 words the whole time. Do you have any other examples that i may have missed?

----------


## J-Dogg

Zimmy and AC, I don't care how you roll the dice, Roy may have won that fight, but he won very few fans over, and certainly did not impress Dana.

A lot of guys who never win TUF, and just do well, or are impressive, end up getting a shot in the UFC. With a performance like that, why would Roy ever receive that shot?

The only chance Roy has of landing some fights in the UFC, is if Kimbo racks up some victories, and they put him on a card against Roy to redeem his loss.

If he had won in impressive fashion, he would be way more likley to get more fights. Wandy is loosing 75% of his fights, but he still draws a crowed from a fan base, and putting on exciting fights.

I understand your points coming from a MMA enthusiast, but MMA in the UFC and TUF is about entertainment. I consider myself, a MMA enthusiast, too, but honestly, watching UFC 2 and 3 and watching Royce wear guys out with 45 min's of BJJ, I had better things to do. Hats off to him for winning, but it was like watching paint dry.

More people know who Roy is now, but a unimpressive victory, in MMA today, does not gain you any more fights. You are better off with a impressive loss. 

Would Roy get more fights if he loss and fans were saying "Wow that was a fight, Roy dished it out, and took some hard shots, but he just kept coming!"

Or "He layed on him with his belly, and tapped Kimbo on the head".

The way the fight worked out to 90% of the fans, is Roy used a big belly to smoother a guy, and exploited a rule.

----------


## ACJiujitsu

J dogg i respectfully disagree. if you go to a real MMA/BJJ forum with hardcore fans and fighters posting daily then 75% of the forum says they have no problem with the outcome or the way it went down.You are entitled to your opinion and i respect it.BTW i loved Royce in the pre-zuffa UFC.He's the reason i started BJJ

----------


## rockinred

> you have to remember one thing,the show is editied to show that way. We've heard many times before that the show is not at all what you see. So i dont know how you can say anyone was being disrespectful. From my view he was very respectful to Rashad and the others when he was being chastised. He didnt argue at all. You saw what everyone else saw in that dressing room. The coach yelled while Roy said 2 words the whole time. Do you have any other examples that i may have missed?


I can't remember the specifics off the top of my head. But it was along the lines that everytime the team had to do something he was doing his own thing... As they started to talk to him he kept smurking until the very end, then he basically finally gave up arguing and said ok. 

Then afterward he still went on to say that he was a master and that when two masters disagree they both need to compromise. Which to me is displaying arrogance and nothing was reaching him. I know that reality and tv are never the same... but what doesn't get made up in the studio is that Roy was being lazy and half ass in the training and was disrespecting the whole team. He has his motives and ideas and knows how to fight..that's cool, then he should be the example for the team if not for himself.. That's kind of how I think and why I am saying I didn't care for how he was acting. even if the script was somewhat tampered, I would never let Dana talk me into that role as a person. so we have to judge it from what we see, because I never met him personally. 

Anyhow, I think I whored this thread up with my opinion enough. Sorry for the rant. On to the next show..  :7up:

----------


## J-Dogg

> J dogg i respectfully disagree. if you go to a real MMA/BJJ forum with hardcore fans and fighters posting daily then 75% of the forum says they have no problem with the outcome or the way it went down.You are entitled to your opinion and i respect it.BTW i loved Royce in the pre-zuffa UFC.He's the reason i started BJJ


I don't doubt that most of the hardcore fans can see Roy's logic in that fight. I can see it too, smart move. Avoided injury, he's untouched, still fresh, and going into his next fight 100%.

But 10% of the 3 million viewers are hard core MMA fans. So if Roy is only winning over 75% of the 10% of the 3 million viewers, he's gaining very few fans. 

As far as MMA goes, smart move. As far as mainstream fan base MMA goes, probably a poor method of victory. Roy talks about the 'business' of MMA, but when it comes to dollars and cents, he's going about it wrong i feel. 

He has to put on a big show, a good show. See Kimbo can be a crappy fighter, he looks like a beast, so people enjoy watching him. Tim Sylvia was a great fighter for awhile, but honestly the biggest thing that held him back, was his poor physic. 

Kimbo is a ripped 230lbs, looks like a street tuff guy, that draws people to his fights. He has the image to sell fights, even if he looses his next 4 fights, people will watch, and us hard core MMA fans will watch, just to see him loose.

Roy has no image portrayed other than a fat red neck that likes cheese burgers though. If he does not win the contract, there is no reason to really bring him into the HW UFC. If they cut Werdum, they certainly would not start throwing fights to Roy. And even if he's good, what if Roy's fat boy image beat Brock? That would be bad for the UFC.

From a business standpoint, Roy made a poor choice.

As far as a strategy to win the TUF and that fight, it was a very smart move.

----------


## ACJiujitsu

If anyone is interested in hearing who fights in the final fight on The Ultimate fighter PM me

----------


## yannick35

Roy Nelson is not an athlete he is just a fat slob, this is MMA at least try to lose the gut, stop showing it to everyone.

It was a poor win sitting on someone face and throwing hammer fist.

Roy is the only guy that looks like a complete fat ass on the show, all the other guys at least got into decent shape and acutally look like MMA fighters.

I just cant stand this fat ass, can i have my cheeseburger now, with fries, pfff

----------


## zimmy

seriously...you guys need to learn that being cut and being conditioned DO NOT have to go hand and hand. Watch the fight again...just out of a few minutes Kimbo is breathing hard and roy's not. I'm done argueing about it...It's just like body building...if you are just a fan, you wouldn't understand all the things that are involved in it. But do any bb'ing, even amature or for your own benefit, and you understand things at a totally different level.

----------


## J-Dogg

> seriously...you guys need to learn that being cut and being conditioned DO NOT have to go hand and hand. Watch the fight again...just out of a few minutes Kimbo is breathing hard and roy's not. I'm done argueing about it...It's just like body building...if you are just a fan, you wouldn't understand all the things that are involved in it. But do any bb'ing, even amature or for your own benefit, and you understand things at a totally different level.


I think you are arguing with yourself, no offense.

Some replys are simply poking at Roy's belly, and he does it also. No one is implying his conditioning is poor. A few posters had stated if he's going to be a fighter, he should not look like that. I'm sure he trains daily, maybe he needs a nutritionist help. I'm sure his cardio is fine for MMA if he's training daily.

No one is even dare saying Kimbo is a cardio machine either. He is ripped, but that makes him marketable, not a cardio machine.

I'll say that Kimbo was way better conditioned than the previous 2 fighters though, those guys were pathetic.

----------


## roid_rage

> Zimmy and AC, I don't care how you roll the dice, Roy may have won that fight, but he won very few fans over, and certainly did not impress Dana.
> 
> A lot of guys who never win TUF, and just do well, or are impressive, end up getting a shot in the UFC. With a performance like that, why would Roy ever receive that shot?
> 
> The only chance Roy has of landing some fights in the UFC, is if Kimbo racks up some victories, and they put him on a card against Roy to redeem his loss.
> 
> If he had won in impressive fashion, he would be way more likley to get more fights. Wandy is loosing 75% of his fights, but he still draws a crowed from a fan base, and putting on exciting fights.
> 
> I understand your points coming from a MMA enthusiast, but MMA in the UFC and TUF is about entertainment. I consider myself, a MMA enthusiast, too, but honestly, watching UFC 2 and 3 and watching Royce wear guys out with 45 min's of BJJ, I had better things to do. Hats off to him for winning, but it was like watching paint dry.
> ...


Well, If I was Roy, I sure as hell rather get a "poor" winning that losing to KIMBO!!!! Losing to kimbo will put him down out of the top 100 fighters and no matter what he does after that fight, he will always be remember like the pro fighter that lost to kimbo... 

By the way, dont like grappling, MMA aint your thing, not trying to be a bitch man, but if you KNOW that grappling is big part of MMA, and a legal way to win (even LnP) why would you watch the Sport??? aint better to be watching Kickboxing, boxing or some other kind of striking sport where you get to see guys actually strike? but if you still watch MMA, knowing that you can get to see too guys roll for 15 minutes, and do not throw one single punch, then you shouldnt complain because some guy outgrapple the otherone and did not send the other guy straigh to the E.R. room...

----------


## roid_rage

> I don't doubt that most of the hardcore fans can see Roy's logic in that fight. I can see it too, smart move. Avoided injury, he's untouched, still fresh, and going into his next fight 100%.
> 
> But 10% of the 3 million viewers are hard core MMA fans. So if Roy is only winning over 75% of the 10% of the 3 million viewers, he's gaining very few fans. 
> 
> As far as MMA goes, smart move. As far as mainstream fan base MMA goes, probably a poor method of victory. Roy talks about the 'business' of MMA, but when it comes to dollars and cents, he's going about it wrong i feel. 
> 
> He has to put on a big show, a good show. See Kimbo can be a crappy fighter, he looks like a beast, so people enjoy watching him. Tim Sylvia was a great fighter for awhile, but honestly the biggest thing that held him back, was his poor physic. 
> 
> Kimbo is a ripped 230lbs, looks like a street tuff guy, that draws people to his fights. He has the image to sell fights, even if he looses his next 4 fights, people will watch, and us hard core MMA fans will watch, just to see him loose.
> ...


Since when MMA became a BBuilding contest??? since when in order to be a champ and get fans you have to be big and ripped? as far as I remember Fedor is 230 chubby lazy ass looking, though he a huuuge fan base (even in the US) 

Kimbo has a huge fan base not because he looks bad ass, although it might help, but for his youtube fights... 

And like I told you before, even from the business standpoint, Roy made the right choice, the WORST thing it could ever happened to him was getting KTFO against Kimbo, and that was a possibility if he wanted to bang with kimbo... if he had lost that fight, he could've said bye bye to his carrer, now, he still on the run and can beat the living crap out of some other dude...

----------


## rockinred

> If anyone is interested in hearing who fights in the final fight on The Ultimate fighter PM me


NOOO!!!...then we can't have these fun threads... :AaGreen22: 

I love to argue over this stuff.. in good humor... me and my friends do it all day and poke at eachothers favorite fighters. Then we talk smack all thru the fights... :LOL:  

I got a bit carried away on this thread dissing on Roy, but computer sucks for this stuff.. because all the shit talk usually comes with a smile from me and no one would ever know...

----------


## rich1261

from watching him so far on this season i have started to like kimbo. he has good heart and ambition to learn.. his ground game really needs work though. everyone is sayin it was a terrible fight and roy sucks but from a fighters point of view roy did just what he should have. if he stood with kimbo he would have been taking a nap so he took him down crusifixed him and kept landing perfect game plan.. in a non fighters eyes yes i can see how it was a boring fight

----------


## ACJiujitsu

> NOOO!!!...then we can't have these fun threads...
> 
> I love to argue over this stuff.. in good humor... me and my friends do it all day and poke at eachothers favorite fighters. Then we talk smack all thru the fights... 
> 
> I got a bit carried away on this thread dissing on Roy, but computer sucks for this stuff.. because all the shit talk usually comes with a smile from me and no one would ever know...


exactly the reason we have these forums. What fun would it be if we all had the same opinion

----------


## J-Dogg

> Since when MMA became a BBuilding contest??? since when in order to be a champ and get fans you have to be big and ripped? as far as I remember Fedor is 230 chubby lazy ass looking, though he a huuuge fan base (even in the US) 
> 
> Kimbo has a huge fan base not because he looks bad ass, although it might help, but for his youtube fights... 
> 
> And like I told you before, even from the business standpoint, Roy made the right choice, the WORST thing it could ever happened to him was getting KTFO against Kimbo, and that was a possibility if he wanted to bang with kimbo... if he had lost that fight, he could've said bye bye to his carrer, now, he still on the run and can beat the living crap out of some other dude...


A guy as open minded and as smart as you, certainly understands the marketing aspect of a fighter right?

----------


## yannick35

Josh Barnett and Fedor have always look soft, more Barnett then Fedor but are 2 of the best MMA fighters in the world. But they never let themselve get big guts like Roy Nelson, hell even Tim Sylvia.

Kimbo is not a cardio machine, and i think that he might not have done the most of is time spent with Bas Rutten, where he should have worked on is ground game a lot more.

Quit sad because Kimbo is what 35 years old, still a great entertainer he has so much time infront of him to learn the ground game, mabye not submissions but at least positioning and takedown defense. With that knowlege he would be very hard to takedown because has far has power goes he has it already.

One of the best takedown defense for a striker that i have seen is Chuck Liddel.

----------


## roid_rage

> A guy as open minded and as smart as you, certainly understands the marketing aspect of a fighter right?


I do man, but for real, theres been too much hype to bbuilders type of fighters recently that is just seems like everybody now has to look like that, Duffee Kod some can out (yeah the fastes Ko I know) but ppl is talking like he should get lesnar now, if he was a chubby guy, no one would even pay attention to him so far (because hes a rookie now, not saying he doesnt have potential) Ive got into sooo many discussions with ppl that were flaming and judging Roys cardio, roy's stamina, roy's power, roy's skill just for his look, were saying that kimbo is in such a good shape lalallalalal and he was going to ko Roy for it, just kind of got tired of that sh... (not talking about you here)...

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## yannick35

> I do man, but for real, theres been too much hype to bbuilders type of fighters recently that is just seems like everybody now has to look like that, Duffee Kod some can out (yeah the fastes Ko I know) but ppl is talking like he should get lesnar now, if he was a chubby guy, no one would even pay attention to him so far (because hes a rookie now, not saying he doesnt have potential) Ive got into sooo many discussions with ppl that were flaming and judging Roys cardio, roy's stamina, roy's power, roy's skill just for his look, were saying that kimbo is in such a good shape lalallalalal and he was going to ko Roy for it, just kind of got tired of that sh... (not talking about you here)...


Duffee has proven nothing, fast KO big deal lots of fight end in fast KO, yeah first UFC fight record 7 seconds still.

He will face Paul Buentello next, Paul has never had an amazing physique but he can bang, this is only the next step for Duffee.

After that we will see.

Lesner is going to stay on top for a very long time, right now the only heavyweight that i can see would be a perfect match would be Noguera.

And never forget that Lesner is still learning so he will get better after each fight.

Has far has MMA goes, its the most demanding and complete sport there is, you are suppose to eat healty and train like a dog almost each day to be the best, at least that is what it represent to me.

To be able to get in there and do 3 5 minute rounds, going on the ground, grappling, twisting and turning, holding your opponent down, against the cage and more, that takes a lot of energy.

It is not normal for a guy like Roy Nelson to show such disgrace to MMA, after all he trains, he lifts weights, but he eats like a pig and don't tell me he has that gut because of genetics.

Plus he acts like a total jerk on the show. Even if he would have fought someone else then Kimbo he still would have looked like crap.

Phil Baroni has the best looking physique in MMA but look where it got him, no where, he needs to retire but he just doesn't get it, 170 pounds is way to small for him and last fight he gased out because of the severe cut.

Randleman has well, he was in shape but not in fighting shape.

So being build like a bodybuildler does not have any advantages a part from looking good.

Fabricio Werdun lost the weight and that was a good thing because in is last fights he had bulk up to 248 pounds and he was fat, a lot slower and is cardio was way off.

Without having a bodybuilding physique you can always have a better shape and less around the waist.

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## J-Dogg

> Duffee has proven nothing, fast KO big deal lots of fight end in fast KO, yeah first UFC fight record 7 seconds still.
> 
> He will face Paul Buentello next, Paul has never had an amazing physique but he can bang, this is only the next step for Duffee.
> 
> After that we will see.
> 
> Lesner is going to stay on top for a very long time, right now the only heavyweight that i can see would be a perfect match would be Noguera.
> 
> And never forget that Lesner is still learning so he will get better after each fight.
> ...



I'm not, and never will say how jacked you are = how great of a fighter you are.

But it does affect the ability to market that fighter. Could you imagine people buying action figures that look like Roy Nelson? If they made a Fedor action figure, he would be not made to specs.

Why do you think they even made one of Sherk?

Baroni would never be a topic of anything, if he did not have the build he does. He's a fairly popular fighter in the community and it's certainly not from his performance.

Even AS is not super jacked, but he's certainly not chubby.

There is not a chubby UFC title holder in the UFC at all. GSP is ripped 24/7. AS is lean, just not a muscular build. Machita is conditioned,and looks like it, and Brock is a over sized line backer cross bread with a Beige Blue Cow.

How marketable would the UFC be if Roy Nelson was the HW champ, and Mini Roys carried the belt?

Sumo Wreslers are conditioned too, but Sumo has never made it as a entertaining sport in the USA.

There are plenty of chubby boxers too, but we just don't know who they are.

Conditioning, and carrying a respectable build, is part of MMA in the UFC and that's just all there is to it. You could be the best in the world, but you are going to make more per fight, if you condition your body and watch your diet. Even if the champ is Roy, Brock would make more per fight and headline the fights over the champion ship bout. Rampage, chuck and wandy normally make 100k+ more than title match bouts with them not in it.

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## yannick35

You would be surprised to see GSP between fights, he is not that ripped.

He is around 190 pounds and a lot less defined. I have seen him many times between fights, i live near Montreal, and went to MMA shows on a regular basis, plus he did a sparring exibition at hard rock cafe in Montreal.

But still you are right marketing is a big issue like pro wrestling is has well.

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## roid_rage

and what is that have to do with being a better or worst fighter???? dude tahts up to the UFC to worry about their finances, how good their fighters look and crap, not about me, I worry about how good fighters are and have no problem with chubby fighters, by the way, bj was pretty chubby fighter... 

And Roy's gut is part of his genetics too.. I do eat like a mofo when im not training, eat shit for 3-4 months a year, and I do not gain any fat (well, may be a little), thats just my genentics, I cant be fat, that's just me....some ppl get fat, some doesnt.

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## J-Dogg

> and what is that have to do with being a better or worst fighter???? dude tahts up to the UFC to worry about their finances, how good their fighters look and crap, not about me, I worry about how good fighters are and have no problem with chubby fighters, by the way, bj was pretty chubby fighter... 
> 
> And Roy's gut is part of his genetics too.. I do eat like a mofo when im not training, eat shit for 3-4 months a year, and I do not gain any fat (well, may be a little), thats just my genentics, I cant be fat, that's just me....some ppl get fat, some doesnt.


BJ was a chubby fighter at one point, but he was a blown up light weight and did not do nearly as good as he is currently. 

I just think it's in Roy's best interest to LOOK in shape to be an entertaining fighter in MMA or the UFC. That's part of the job.

Either that or he has to find a way to make himself marketable another way, and slapping Kimbo on the top of the head is not working for that.

Why don't you get it I guess? I'm not saying Roy is a shitty fighter.

Kimbo is a worse fighter, that's for certain. Compare Kimbo's bank account to Roy's and you'll see who is more marketable.

Roy has to win TUF to get a contract, Kimbo already has one, we know he is fighting already.

Roy beat Kimbo in a MMA match, but Kimbo will still get a better paying contract than Roy because Kimbo is marketable. 

Roy is making the right choices to win TUF, and honestly, I think he has a really good shot. But he has to be more impressive if he wants to make the big bucks.

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## yannick35

With is experience Roy Nelson should have started fighting for the UFC already either in a Fight night event or prelim bouts at a PPV event.

He got some very strong exposure in the IFL, bodog and EliteXE, a part from Kimbo he has the most exposure on this current TUF season.

With a backround like this its really funny that he is on TUF.

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## higherdesire

> Roy Nelson is not an athlete he is just a fat slob, this is MMA at least try to lose the gut, stop showing it to everyone.
> 
> It was a poor win sitting on someone face and throwing hammer fist.
> 
> Roy is the only guy that looks like a complete fat ass on the show, all the other guys at least got into decent shape and acutally look like MMA fighters.
> 
> I just cant stand this fat ass, can i have my cheeseburger now, with fries, pfff


then why was Matt Hughes victory over Royce Gracie so big of a deal? ended the exact same way as I recall. I am not comparing the two fights, just saying that that is a hell of a way to win a fight, just these two looked a lot slopppier than what we would like to see from that level of athletes. Fight should have been called in the first round according to the rules. Just my .02

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## yannick35

> then why was Matt Hughes victory over Royce Gracie so big of a deal? ended the exact same way as I recall. I am not comparing the two fights, just saying that that is a hell of a way to win a fight, just these two looked a lot slopppier than what we would like to see from that level of athletes. Fight should have been called in the first round according to the rules. Just my .02


Because Matt Hughes put the hurting on Gracie, he was done.

That was an amazing fight.

Kimbo vs Nelson was very boring.

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## roid_rage

> BJ was a chubby fighter at one point, but he was a blown up light weight and did not do nearly as good as he is currently. 
> 
> I just think it's in Roy's best interest to LOOK in shape to be an entertaining fighter in MMA or the UFC. That's part of the job.
> 
> Either that or he has to find a way to make himself marketable another way, and slapping Kimbo on the top of the head is not working for that.
> 
> Why don't you get it I guess? I'm not saying Roy is a shitty fighter.
> 
> Kimbo is a worse fighter, that's for certain. Compare Kimbo's bank account to Roy's and you'll see who is more marketable.
> ...


I get what you are saying, but I dont agree, while is true that entertainers make more money in this sport, I dont agree that looking good is part of the job, not at all...Entertain? yeah in some degree...I do hate the LnPrayers, If every single fighter was going to fight just to not lose, then the sport will be dead in less than 1 year, so I suppous is a fighters job to put on a good fight...

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## ACJiujitsu

> then why was Matt Hughes victory over Royce Gracie so big of a deal? ended the exact same way as I recall. I am not comparing the two fights, just saying that that is a hell of a way to win a fight, just these two looked a lot slopppier than what we would like to see from that level of athletes. Fight should have been called in the first round according to the rules. Just my .02


WHAT? Matt Hughes took Royce's back stretched him out,sat up then started landing massive shots to the head.It was nothing at all like what happened with Nelson/Kimbo. Now if your talking about what Hughes did to BJ penn,thats a bit different. Hughes had Bj crucifixed and landed shots to the face

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## higherdesire

> Because Matt Hughes put the hurting on Gracie, he was done.
> 
> That was an amazing fight.
> 
> Kimbo vs Nelson was very boring.





> WHAT? Matt Hughes took Royce's back stretched him out,sat up then started landing massive shots to the head.It was nothing at all like what happened with Nelson/Kimbo. Now if your talking about what Hughes did to BJ penn,thats a bit different. Hughes had Bj crucifixed and landed shots to the face


It was a boring fight. It wont be the last one we see where there is a winner. The post was in response to it was a dishonorable way to win by AC. 

AC both those fights were finished in basically the same fashion, Matt on top hitting them in the head and they're arms were not movable and they could not escape. MUCH more entertaining and talented, but the statement was that some how Nelson had not done his job because he immobilized Kimbo and hit him in the head until he was TKO'd. Same deal man. That's all I am saying.

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## ACJiujitsu

> It was a boring fight. It wont be the last one we see where there is a winner. The post was in response to it was a dishonorable way to win by AC. 
> 
> AC both those fights were finished in basically the same fashion, Matt on top hitting them in the head and they're arms were not movable and they could not escape. MUCH more entertaining and talented, but the statement was that some how Nelson had not done his job because he immobilized Kimbo and hit him in the head until he was TKO'd. Same deal man. That's all I am saying.


You should go back and watch the Hughes/Gracie fight again. Matt hughes was on his back.Its not even close to the same posistion as a crucifix. Royce had full use of his arms. He was covering up. Im totally missing what your trying to say. Im sorry im a little confused, but those two fights couldnt be anymore different.


Also you have me confused with someone else. I never said that it was a dishonorable way for Nelson to win. I've been one of his biggest supporters on here.

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