# GENERAL FORUM > IN THE NEWS >  Hey White House, maybe its time to focus on Mexico violence?

## Public Enemy

Maybe its time for arrogant U.S. politicians to stop worrying about terrorism half a world away and focus on what is happening right next to the American border? The city of Juarez is a slaughterhouse and if that violence spills into the United States (Which probably already has but not at the same rate), they will be facing terrorism 24/7. "War on Terrorism" is baby shit compared to the danger Americans face with these drug wars escalating. I guess its only terrorism if it involved a foreigner blowing something up, but mass gang shoot outs, rape, assassinations, drive bys, and executions are just a part of normal society. 


*Even by Juarez standards, a deadly 72 hours*

Fifty-three people were killed in a 72-hour span in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, making it one of the deadliest three-day periods in recent memory, state attorney general's office spokesman Arturo Sandoval told CNN Sunday.
Among the dead were four police officers from three different agencies, Sandoval said.

"This is the worst violence we've seen this year," he said, referring to the three days from Thursday through Saturday.

The bloodshed started on Thursday with 14 people killed, including a municipal police officer.

Friday was the most violent day, leaving 20 people dead. A municipal police officer was killed by an assassin who belonged to a band of carjackers. Hours later, a state police investigator was executed on his drive home.

On Saturday, a highway police officer was killed by a driver who confronted the patrolman after the officer gave him a ticket. The officer was shot 10 times at close range in the middle of the afternoon. In all, 19 people were killed that day in separate shootings throughout the city.

Elsewhere Sunday, Mexico's Public Security Secretariat reported that 13 taxi drivers were killed in the resort town of Acapulco in a rash of violence that began early Friday.

Suspected drug traffickers are believed to be behind the violence, setting cars ablaze and destroying street lights and security cameras. Among the casualties, a human head was discovered on a street and another body was found near a charred vehicle.

The security office said four people were arrested in connection with the killings, and an investigation is ongoing.
Juarez is one of Mexico's deadliest cities and an epicenter of drug cartel violence. The Juarez cartel and the Sinaloa cartel are fighting a bloody turf war in the region for lucrative smuggling routes, and for drug-dealing territory in the city.

The sudden spike in violence left the city morgue overwhelmed. There were issues with where to store the bodies.

In light of the violence, Juarez Mayor Hector "Teto" Murguia is expected to name a new municipal police chief on Monday, local newspapers reported.

Municipal police spokesman Adrian Sanchez told CNN he has read those reports, but that the police department has no official confirmation that a new chief will be appointed.

"At this time we continue serving our current boss until we are given new orders," Sanchez said.

In the first 40 days of 2011, Juarez is averaging eight homicides per day, Sandoval said. Also, in February, at least 24 women have been killed in 20 days.

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## BgMc31

Hell yeah, it's about time, those drug cartels are f*cking up the best party spot for a teenager! LOL!! I went to high school in El Paso (father was stationed at Fort Bliss). Man we used to hit the Juarez clubs every fri or sat and have a f*ckin blast!! Now you can't even go over there. Later in life, we used to hit the pharmacias on a regular basis for cheap quality gear. Those days are long gone!!! DAMNIT!!!!

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## Tigershark

I would like to say it will happen but I honestlt do not think I will ever see it in my lifetime. The US government is too politically correct and has thier head way too far up thier ass to do anything about this. 
Times like this when I wish Ronald Reagan was still in office. His time has come again and as long as they want to clone somebody I vote we clone him and put him back in the White House.

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## Noles12

Dont worry, many officials think the situation at the border is improving. They are full of sh!t. I agree this is something where action needs to be taken

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## zabster151

we need to kill the incentive for them to live here. does not matter how much security we have on the boarder, this problem is too big at this point America screwed the pooch on this one.
the elite like watching us deal with the violence

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## Flagg

What happened to that female student that become the new Commisioner of Police over in Mexico City late last year? Is she still there?

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## zabster151

who cares what joke she was.

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## BgMc31

> I would like to say it will happen but I honestlt do not think I will ever see it in my lifetime. The US government is too politically correct and has thier head way too far up thier ass to do anything about this. 
> Times like this when I wish Ronald Reagan was still in office. His time has come again and as long as they want to clone somebody I vote we clone him and put him back in the White House.


Ahhhhhh, the myth that is Ronnie Reagan. Did you forget it was Ronnie who holds some responsibility for this drug crime and illegal immigration problems?

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## JohnnyVegas

And one of the splotches on his record (in the minds of many conservatives) is his amnesty program.

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## Phosphor

Ya, I agree with the Ronald Reagan splotch. Other than that, maybe Iran/Contra, but that was more bullshit than anything else. Here we have Obama trying to force-feed us government healthcare and push gays in the military than do actual monumentous contributions (like border control) that could actually make a difference in this country.

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## clemont51

Illegal immigration and it's resultant distortion of our society is much more of a threat than "terrorism".
Multiculturalism is a disaster. Up to 20 million low-IQ illegals are trashing community after community.
High population growth, crime, filth, decay, and a bankrupt hospital system in the southwest is the
result. I blame Bush for his stupid comments "just doing jobs Americans won't do" was a maggot-gagger.
Americans have and will do any job. Then we have Sen. McCain who called illegals "god's children". McCain
has changed his tune. Naturally, the liberals think immigration of third-worlders is wonderful. Environmental
groups who recognize the disaster of population growth but the are sitting on their wimpy on immigration.
Europe is paying the price for muslim immigration, America is next compounding the flood of central American
losers.

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## zabster151

> Illegal immigration and it's resultant distortion of our society is much more of a threat than "terrorism".
> Multiculturalism is a disaster. Up to 20 million low-IQ illegals are trashing community after community.
> High population growth, crime, filth, decay, and a bankrupt hospital system in the southwest is the
> result. I blame Bush for his stupid comments "just doing jobs Americans won't do" was a maggot-gagger.
> Americans have and will do any job. Then we have Sen. McCain who called illegals "god's children". McCain
> has changed his tune. Naturally, the liberals think immigration of third-worlders is wonderful. Environmental
> groups who recognize the disaster of population growth but the are sitting on their wimpy on immigration.
> Europe is paying the price for muslim immigration, America is next compounding the flood of central American
> losers.


yep america is failing hard

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## MACHINE5150

end the war on drugs and you end the murder.. legalize all drugs and have the government regulate them. cut the head off the snake. no money, no murder

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## Eddie_m63

I wonder if that would ever happen, crap they wouldn't even legalize pot in Cal, i think it will be easier to stop doing drugs all together then to legalized it.

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## BgMc31

> Ya, I agree with the Ronald Reagan splotch. Other than that, maybe Iran/Contra, but that was more bullshit than anything else. Here we have Obama trying to *force-feed us government healthcare* and *push gays in the military* than do actual monumentous contributions (like border control) that could actually make a difference in this country.


Fulfilling campaign promises to your constituents is essential to political success. Also there is nothing wrong with eliminating discrimination. Don't blame Obama for lack of border control. Check out the new budget proposal by the republicans, it cuts border security budget while Obama's plan increases it.

Just bringing a little education to this discussion.

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## BgMc31

> Illegal immigration and it's resultant distortion of our society is much more of a threat than "terrorism".
> *Multiculturalism is a disaster. Up to 20 million low-IQ illegals* are trashing community after community.
> High population growth, crime, filth, decay, and a bankrupt hospital system in the southwest is the
> result. I blame Bush for his stupid comments "just doing jobs Americans won't do" was a maggot-gagger.
> Americans have and will do any job. Then we have Sen. McCain who called illegals "god's children". McCain
> has changed his tune. Naturally, the liberals think immigration of third-worlders is wonderful. Environmental
> groups who recognize the disaster of population growth but the are sitting on their wimpy on immigration.
> Europe is paying the price for muslim immigration, America is next compounding the flood of central American
> losers.


Complete BULLSH*T. America is great because of our diversity not in spite of it. Shall I name all the advancements and inventions made to this country by other than W.A.S.P? Also please show some stats to about low-IQ immigrants. I don't think there has been an IQ study done on the 20million illegals in this country. That is typical fear-mongering. Lets stick to the merits of the discussion, its a problem because they ILLEGAL. How come none of the people (or parties) who are up and arms about illegal immigration have discussed a vital way to eliminate the problem? Why because they have no answer. I'm all for deporting 20million people. But any of you "no big government" whiners, know how we plan to pay for such an endeavor? Anyone? Anyone? Imagine the cost of finding 20 million people, detaining them, legal fees, and cost of deportation for them AND their families. Or will it be cheaper to give these people a path towards citizenship? You tell me!

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## zabster151

> Fulfilling campaign promises to your constituents is essential to political success. Also there is nothing wrong with eliminating discrimination. Don't blame Obama for lack of border control. Check out the new budget proposal by the republicans, it cuts border security budget while Obama's plan increases it.
> 
> Just bringing a little education to this discussion.



the last thing you brought was education. Obama is in on everything he is in the pockets of the bankers and fed reserve. they want as many illegals in as they can get. thats why we have not killed the incentive because we are not trying to get rid of them were are just trying to make it look like we are. why do you think they get away with so much, like free medical free schooling , some how they get loans for businesses witch is a major problem, they subsidized electric bill,food stamps, EBT cards were they can use anywere like hotels pot dispensaries accepted every ware, o yea JP morgan makes money on every person on EBT cards, you people don't get whats really going on and its amazing. the government is so involved with drug trafficking, import of illegals/ weapons it ridiculous open your eyes people...

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## BgMc31

Again, Zabster, I won't debate a conspiracy theorist nor will I debate anyone who opens a debate with an insult. I already posted what Socrates said, I suggest you go back and read it. So tell you what, post up some real facts (from credible sources, not your usual conspiracy theory websites), eliminate the childish insults and maybe we can engage in a constructive debate.

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## zabster151

> Complete BULLSH*T. America is great because of our diversity not in spite of it. Shall I name all the advancements and inventions made to this country by other than W.A.S.P? Also please show some stats to about low-IQ immigrants. I don't think there has been an IQ study done on the 20million illegals in this country. That is typical fear-mongering. Lets stick to the merits of the discussion, its a problem because they ILLEGAL. How come none of the people (or parties) who are up and arms about illegal immigration have discussed a vital way to eliminate the problem?*kill the insentive*  Why because they have no answer. I'm all for deporting 20million people.*we need to and we have the military to do it* But any of you "no big government" whiners, know how we plan to pay for such an endeavor? Anyone? Anyone? Imagine the cost of finding 20 million people, detaining them, legal fees, and cost of deportation for them AND their families.*not as hard as you try to make it sound, simple we have a senses just start there then social security and the esiast way is just get all the names of people on EBT that are mexican, if you provide birth cirtificat and its not forged*  Or will it be cheaper to give these people a path towards citizenship? You tell me!


*no no no no no no no no no* are you serious

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## zabster151

> Again, Zabster, I won't debate a conspiracy theorist nor will I debate anyone who opens a debate with an insult. I already posted what Socrates said, I suggest you go back and read it. So tell you what, post up some real facts (from credible sources, not your usual conspiracy theory websites), eliminate the childish insults and maybe we can engage in a constructive debate.


what are you talking about everything i post is crediable, unlike fox abc nbc that you get your info. it was not an insult its truth you have no clue what your talking about in fact your part of the problem. 

my credible source said naked body scanners and they were installed, they new the economy was going to the shiter this year and we are, they catch everyone eles lying.

then there are people like you who constintly discredit reall info because its not main stream media YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM

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## BgMc31

You haven't posted anything credible... If you believe I'm part of the problem, then so be it. It makes no sense debating you Zabster because you don't believe anything other than the crap you post. You're post in response to my above argument about having the military round up illegals is actually against the laws of use by the military, proves that you don't know much beyond your limited mindset. I won't even go into your EBT argument. But, again, it makes no sense to debate with you. You'll respond with insults (especially considering you don't have a clue what an insult is), as usual, and continue to deny any credible proof presented by anyone else. So, really, what's the purpose? Anyone who disagrees with Zab is WRONG! Right?

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## zabster151

> You haven't posted anything credible... If you believe I'm part of the problem, then so be it. It makes no sense debating you Zabster because you don't believe anything other than the crap you post. You're post in response to my above argument about having the military round up illegals is actually against the laws of use by the military, proves that you don't know much beyond your limited mindset. *they are invading are country that's why they are called ILLEGALS* I won't even go into your EBT argument.*you think its ok they can by whatever with ebt card on your tax dollar* But, again, it makes no sense to debate with you. You'll respond with insults (especially considering you don't have a clue what an insult is), as usual, and continue to deny any credible proof presented by anyone else. So, really, what's the purpose? Anyone who disagrees with Zab is WRONG! Right?


thats why they put in naked body scanners because i was wrong and my source had no creditability





this is America? not my America

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## BgMc31

Obviously you don't know what an invasion is:

in·va·sion
   /ɪnˈveɪʒən/ Show Spelled[in-vey-zhuhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
an act or instance of invading or entering as an enemy, especially by an army.
2.
the entrance or advent of anything troublesome or harmful, as disease. 

So that disproves THAT point. Illegals don't many they are invaders. It means they entered the country illegally. There is a major difference.

Again, with EBT, you cannot buy whatever you want. Most people only have food stamp benefits on their EBT cards (I work in retail management, I'm required to take a welfare benefit class every year). Food stamps cannot buy cigs, alcohol, and non-food produts. AFDC is something different. Those are cash benefits that give cash only to families with dependant children. Living in the southwest for a large portion of my life, I've seen/known illegal aliens, I know most don't have AFDC benefits. Most don't even have welfare benefits because many southwest cities and states have cracked down on fake SSN's and paperwork. Of course anyone who abuses the system bothers me. But trust me, I see many more whites and blacks using their welfare benefits for stuff like cigarettes and alcohol, buying lobster and shrimp, etc. than hispanics.

The whole naked body scanners point is moot. Nobody has disputed that they are used. As a matter of fact, there are a number of law suits because of these and hostilities towards them. It bothers me as well. I just don't subscribe to your NWO, conspiracy theories that you subscribe to.

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## Tigershark

> Ahhhhhh, the myth that is Ronnie Reagan. Did you forget it was Ronnie who holds some responsibility for this drug crime and illegal immigration problems?


He created 30 million new jobs.
Ended the Cold War.
Removed the Berlin Wall.
Rebuilt the military that was gutted by Carter.
Gave America the biggest boom in it's economy that lasted through the Clinton years.

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## BgMc31

Increased the debt higher than anyone else in American history except for Obama.
The income gap between rich and poor grew more than anytime in history
created the bogus war on drugs
responsible for the cocaine and crack epidemics
Iran-Contra
Saying "Mr. Gorbachev take down that wall" didn't remove the Berlin Wall
Russia's economic policies and their unsustainable military budget was the cause of their decline
His economic boom didn't last through the Clinton years. Clinton took over an economic mess that he repaired.
Systematically supported aparthied in South Africa


Your turn...LOL!!!!

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## Tigershark

1. Fixing Carter's unemployment, inflation and ungodly interest rates within a year.
2. Fixing Khadafi's @ss for good.
3. Fixing East and West Berlin.
4. Keeping a war between the U.S. and Russia from happening.
5. Putting members of the left-wing press in their place.
6. Gaining the respect of both sides of the aisle in Congress.
7. Stuffing the Air Traffic Controllers' Union in favor of passenger safety.
8. Upholding the Constitution at least once a day while in office.
9. Appreciating American art, culture and history.
10. Being the finest leader this nation has seen since his Presidency. Agree or disagree with what he did, he led instead of whining and acting like children the way every President since has done. EVERY one of them.

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## BgMc31

1. Agreed
2. WRONG!! What about Pan Am Flight 103? Bush 1 and Clinton fixed Khadfi's ass for good.
3. Again, the Iron cutain was failing with or without Reagans help. Unstustainable economic and military policy.
4. Wrong. Neither side was headed for war. Both sides were too afraid of a nuclear confrontation. He did nothing more than any other president since LBJ.
5. Pure opinion. How did you come up with that one?
6. Only after his approval ratings in the first half of his first term fail to 42%. Political expediency...
7. Agreed.
8. Seriously? What about his open door policy for immigrants? What about the systematic increase of government law enforcement policy the precluded even Bush's Patriot Act? Plus your statement is pure opinion and the voice of a fan rather than a political thinker.
9. While cutting funding for the arts, denying the Buffalo soldiers memorial, and being the first afront to MLK B-day being observed as a holiday, denying the observation of the 'Trail of Tears' memorial...and I can go on and on about his opposition to observation of native Hawaiian history and culture (I'm married to a native Hawaiian and know it all too well).
10. Many, like myself, would argue that Bill Clinton was a better president. But that's a matter of opinion, also.

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## Tigershark

This thread has been taken over by us.

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## Tigershark

*Enviromental*
1982 – 1988 – Signed 43 bills designating more than 10 million acres of wilderness areas in 27 states. The wilderness areas established during Reagan’s presidency account for nearly 10 percent of the National Wilderness Preservation System at its current extent. President Reagan signed more wilderness bills than any other president since the Wilderness Act was enacted in 1964. 



1982 – Signed legislation establishing 110,000-acre Mount St. Helens National Volcanic Monument in southwestern Washington State for research, recreation, and public education.



1983 – President Reagan’s EPA Administrator, William Ruckelshaus, banned the use of ethylene dibromide, a suspected carcinogen, as an agricultural soil fumigant.



1985 – President Reagan’s EPA Administrator, Lee Thomas, ordered a 90 percent reduction in lead in gasoline.



1986 – Signed legislation establishing Great Basin National Park, covering 77,000 acres featuring bristlecone pine forests, glacial moraines, and cave formations in eastern Nevada.



1986 – Signed the Superfund Amendments and Reauthorization Act, which increased funding and strengthened the federal program to clean up sites contaminated with hazardous waste. 



1986 – Signed Safe Drinking Water Act amendments requiring stronger controls on drinking water contaminants and protection of source aquifers. 



1987 – Signed legislation establishing El Malpais National Monument, covering more than 114,000 acres featuring lava tubes, cinder cones, and archaeological treasures in western New Mexico.



1987 – Signed into law the National Appliance Energy Conservation Act, which established efficiency standards for 12 types of residential appliances. 



1987 - Signed into law Clean Water Act amendments of 1987, which broadened the Clean Water Act’s reach to cover non-point source pollution and stormwater. The amendments established National Estuary Program to protect nationally significant estuaries, which now number 28, including Long Island Sound, Albemarle-Pamlico Sounds, Tampa Bay, San Francisco Bay, and Puget Sound. 



1987 - Ordered U.S. diplomats to negotiate a strong treaty to begin phasing out ozone-depleting chemicals. The resulting Montreal Protocol was ratified by the U.S. Senate in 1988 and entered into force in 1989. The Montreal Protocol, which President Reagan called a “monumental achievement,” has resulted in a 95 percent decline in production of the targeted chemicals. The atmosphere’s protective ozone layer has begun to recover.

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## BgMc31

Not denying the good things Regan did. To even us Dems, he was a good president. One of the best Republican presidents in history. But he's far from the savior Republicans make him out to be. But that is the opinion of the opposing party. So you make valid points above. But you also have to see his negatives.

Yeah, I'm sorry for the hijack. But you can't say it hasn't been fun. LOL!!!

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## Tigershark

This is the most fun I have ever had in the news section. 
I do agree there were some negatives.

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## KyleJumpjets

I like clemonts comment

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## Noles12

> thats why they put in naked body scanners because i was wrong and my source had no creditability
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is America? not my America


The search with the 8 year old is irrelevant. It occurs when not going through standard security. I had to do this once in college. They did it on the tarmac. Had you sit down take off your shoes then stand on the mat while they did a personal metal detector test and others looked through your bags.

If you listen to the video this isnt even an airport. They refer to train and for all you know it just crossed the borders of a country. Therefore they felt the need to search. If you dont think people will sneak things over with kids then you need to open your eyes. They see it as an easy way without getting caught. This is why children go through the same procedures

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## Flagg

This is from a film called Cube (great film by the way), however forward the clip to 2:00 for the point about "conspiracy theories". You have these guys trapped in basically a giant puzzle prison (watch the film, its really good) and one of them is convinced it's all part of a massive conspiracy. Worth however, believes there is no conspiracy, and all life is, is pointless blunder into the dark under the guise of a master plan.

Watch this Zabster. It probably wont change your mind but you should watch this clip none the less (forward to 2:00).

EDIT: there is a point towards the end where the Cop says "but this is pointless, why put people in it?" and that is the point. It's used or you have to admit it is pointless. Take Iraq and Afghanistan. Completely, and utterly pointless. Do you think the US and the UK are ever going to admit that? They'd rather send more soldiers off to die for nothing than admit that. If there is a real crime its how apathetic Government leaders are towards human life. All that matters to them is money. There is no conspiracy. Mexico has no conspiracy. They have a shitty, corrupt system and thats it.

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## clemont51

Regarding IQ of illegal aliens; do your research. The "mestizo", the most common of illegal aliens IQ
's at appx. 85. From a hi-tech standpoint they are an obsolete people. How do we compete in the world
market while increasing our population of underachievers? As to their removal, such an action would 
create an economic boom unlike anything since the end of WW2. If they are valuable I wonder why their
home countries don't want them back!

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## zabster151

flagg ic seen that movie its good..

very good clemont51

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## BgMc31

> Regarding IQ of illegal aliens; do your research. The "mestizo", the most common of illegal aliens IQ
> 's at appx. 85. From a hi-tech standpoint they are an obsolete people. How do we compete in the world
> market while increasing our population of underachievers? As to their removal, such an action would 
> create an economic boom unlike anything since the end of WW2. If they are valuable I wonder why their
> home countries don't want them back!


You posted that list of IQ's before and it was debunked. You can't administer IQ tests, that are based on general knowledge of our own society, to those not from our society. IQ testing is highly subjective and culturally biased. They are not indicators of the ability to learn. I.E You can't expect to administer a IQ test designed in America to a Mongolian Nomad and expect him to do well. But biologically there is no difference in cognitive abilities.

Similar testing was used at the turn of the century to prove that the Irish were encapable of certain jobs, in the 20-30's, similar testing was used to do the same to Jews, eastern Europeans and Italians, and from the turn of the century until the 1960's, similar testing was used to justify discrimination against blacks. So your theory is not accurate.

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## zabster151

bgMC31 sounds like your for mexican immigrants. you defend there inteligenets when lets be real here, they are not the smartest culture. if they are here getting an education we all no thats no good , you don't want to was the time or money to get them out. when we could redirect are forces from this fake war to the real one at are boarders. 

all Mexicans should be subject to a major/thorough background check, we need to deport grandpa all the way through to the kids in school today. we have to start some ware , look its illegal for them to be here anyway you look at it. it obvious are government is not trying to stop it. if anything the only thing are government does is support these illegals 

i would also like to add im not hating oon just mexico they are just the worst when it comes to crime and free hand outs, anyone who comes to are country or any country for that matter with out the intent to support the country witch he resides should be deported. back to his country,

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## BgMc31

Zab, as usual you assume to much. No I'm not for illegals rights, trust me, I've lived in the areas DIRECTLY affected by illegal immigration (El Paso, Tx, Albuquerque, NM, California, Las Vegas, Nevada, Scottsdale, Az), during most of my adult life. What I am for is a REAL solution to the problem. As I stated before its against the powers of the military to act as a law enforcement arm of our government. The only way that can be done is if the President orders marshal law. We aren't being invaded by a 'hostile' force. Whether the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are fake or not is besides the point. So, with that said, that eliminates your so-called 'solution'. 

The pure logistics of gathering up 20million are nearly impossible. You run into all kinds of civil rights issues, habeus corpus issues, the list goes on and on. Plus that's an expense no one, especially the tax payers, are willing to pay for. 

Let's get real about this Zab and you aren't being real. And please proof read your posts before posting. Because you don't, you posts are hard to read and come across almost incoherent and the ravings of an irrational, angry, person.

When it comes to what I posted in response to Clemont51. His posts (included some in the past) are completely bigoted and without merit. His post have shown that he wishes for an all-white America. He thinks the mixing of cultures has been a detriment to our society and not a benefit. So, using reasonable deduction, what do you believe his solution is? Remove all that isn't white, anglo-saxon, and protestant. Correct?

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## zabster151

> Zab, as usual you assume to much. No I'm not for illegals rights, trust me, I've lived in the areas DIRECTLY affected by illegal immigration (El Paso, Tx, Albuquerque, NM, California, Las Vegas, Nevada, Scottsdale, Az), during most of my adult life. What I am for is a REAL solution to the problem. As I stated before its against the powers of the military to act as a law enforcement arm of our government. The only way that can be done is if the President orders marshal law. We aren't being invaded by a 'hostile' force. Whether the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are fake or not is besides the point. So, with that said, that eliminates your so-called 'solution'. * we are being invaded by mexico*
> *it not un reasonable to bring troops to protect are boarders*
> 
> The pure logistics of gathering up 20million are nearly impossible.*WE HAVE TO START SOME WARE OR THIS WILL NEVER END*  You run into all kinds of civil rights issues,*civil they have none*  habeus corpus issues, the list goes on and on. Plus that's an expense no one, especially the tax payers, are willing to pay for. 
> 
> Let's get real about this Zab and you aren't being real. And please proof read your posts before posting. Because you don't, you posts are hard to read and come across almost incoherent and the ravings of an irrational, angry, person.
> 
> When it comes to what I posted in response to Clemont51. His posts (included some in the past) are completely bigoted and without merit. His post have shown that he wishes for an all-white America. He thinks the mixing of cultures has been a detriment to our society and not a benefit. So, using reasonable deduction, what do you believe his solution is? Remove all that isn't white, anglo-saxon, and protestant. Correct?


 i don't agree with one race

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## BgMc31

I've posted the definition of an invasion. A mass immigration isn't tantamount to an invasion. I have no problem putting the national guard on the borders to protect our borders, that's within states rights. But using the military or the states militia as a law enforcement arm is against the powers of the military.

Yes we have to start somewhere, but not with what you are proposing. Trust me, there are many, many, more illegals here (from not only Mexico, and Latin American countries, but from all over the world), that aren't here to commit heinous crimes, they are just searching for a better way of life. So, I'm for a pathway to citizenship. I'm for cracking down on these companies that hire illegals. And I'm all for strengthening our borders. If we allow a pathway to citizenship, these people actually come out of hiding. These people can be documented. We can then do our, actual, due diligence, weed out and deport the ones with criminal records or linked to gangs and organized crime, but allow those who are productive to stay here legally. If we did those things and cut the bureaucratic red tape, we could be do these things effectively and much cheaper than what you are proposing. 

But let's be honest here, the vast majority of the push back against Latin American immigrants is the changing face of America. If we automatically allow 20million hispanics to become citizens, it vastly changes the political landscape in this country. And white people, like Clement, are fearful of that. That is why there this campaign of fear mongering that simply don't jive with statistics.

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## Phosphor

> I've posted the definition of an invasion. A mass immigration isn't tantamount to an invasion. I have no problem putting the national guard on the borders to protect our borders, that's within states rights. But using the military or the states militia as a law enforcement arm is against the powers of the military.
> 
> Yes we have to start somewhere, but not with what you are proposing. Trust me, there are many, many, more illegals here (from not only Mexico, and Latin American countries, but from all over the world), that aren't here to commit heinous crimes, they are just searching for a better way of life. So, I'm for a pathway to citizenship. I'm for cracking down on these companies that hire illegals. And I'm all for strengthening our borders. If we allow a pathway to citizenship, these people actually come out of hiding. These people can be documented. We can then do our, actual, due diligence, weed out and deport the ones with criminal records or linked to gangs and organized crime, but allow those who are productive to stay here legally. If we did those things and cut the bureaucratic red tape, we could be do these things effectively and much cheaper than what you are proposing. 
> 
> But let's be honest here, the vast majority of the push back against Latin American immigrants is the changing face of America. If we automatically allow 20million hispanics to become citizens, it vastly changes the political landscape in this country. And white people, like Clement, are fearful of that. That is why there this campaign of fear mongering that simply don't jive with statistics.


Try looking at immigration laws of nearly every other country out there. They are extremely strict in every aspect regarding immigration, legal and illiegal. Look at Mexico's laws regarding illegal immigration - and they take it very seriously. Our borders have been a joke for decades and now the effects are becoming fully realized by local and state governments along with its citizens. 

It is not our nations best interest to provide jobs (or anything else they leach off the our system) - it is the job of their OWN country. There has always been a path to citizenship to this country and they choose not to take that path because it's easy to do. In doing so, they shit on our laws. They shit on the people that actually did it the right way. Just because there is a high infux of people wanting citizenship does not mean we open up the lanes of traffic just because there is a demand. The process is costly and lengthy on each person for very specific reasons. 

You said lets be honest? Only honest with what you believe, that is all. This has nothing to do with anything political in it's essence. Maybe for a politician, sure. But they broke the law and burden our system. Other countries take this very seriously, but we shouldn't? We should accept them just simply if they are found to not be dangerous and they simply want to live? Get real, we are not the worlds caretakers when anyone wants something. We already have enough issues with our own citizens wanting the goodies. Who are you to presume, just because I am white, are fearful of the political landscape. There are plenty of white people that think like you as well. There is right and wrong from my perspective. Simple as that. 

I can imagine from your writing that you would like everyone just to get along and everyone have no fears of want. Based on feelings, sure, everyone would like that. That is the land of unicorns and rainbows. The situation requires analytical thinking based on factual data on the situation. Cold hard facts devoid of emotion. We have enough bleeding in our economy from feel-good, emotional programs that waste tax payers dollars.

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## zabster151

this is were america will be
if i explane you all wont get it, so watch
rich banks and poor people

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## BgMc31

> Try looking at immigration laws of nearly every other country out there. They are extremely strict in every aspect regarding immigration, legal and illiegal. Look at Mexico's laws regarding illegal immigration - and they take it very seriously. Our borders have been a joke for decades and now the effects are becoming fully realized by local and state governments along with its citizens. 
> 
> It is not our nations best interest to provide jobs (or anything else they leach off the our system) - it is the job of their OWN country. There has always been a path to citizenship to this country and they choose not to take that path because it's easy to do. In doing so, they shit on our laws. They shit on the people that actually did it the right way. Just because there is a high infux of people wanting citizenship does not mean we open up the lanes of traffic just because there is a demand. The process is costly and lengthy on each person for very specific reasons. 
> 
> You said lets be honest? Only honest with what you believe, that is all. This has nothing to do with anything political in it's essence. Maybe for a politician, sure. But they broke the law and burden our system. Other countries take this very seriously, but we shouldn't? We should accept them just simply if they are found to not be dangerous and they simply want to live? Get real, we are not the worlds caretakers when anyone wants something. We already have enough issues with our own citizens wanting the goodies. Who are you to presume, just because I am white, are fearful of the political landscape. There are plenty of white people that think like you as well. There is right and wrong from my perspective. Simple as that. 
> 
> I can imagine from your writing that you would like everyone just to get along and everyone have no fears of want. Based on feelings, sure, everyone would like that. That is the land of unicorns and rainbows. The situation requires analytical thinking based on factual data on the situation. Cold hard facts devoid of emotion. We have enough bleeding in our economy from feel-good, emotional programs that waste tax payers dollars.


You've got my perspective totally wrong. I don't believe in world of make believe of unicorns and rainbows. Quite the contrary. What I'm saying is the logistics of rounding up, supposedly, 20million people. Using the military sets a bad precedent. It's against the law the govern the power of the military. I can't stand the fact the we are the world's police and are looked upon to take care of the worlds ills. My posts are about immigration are strictly from a logistical point of view. The expense of such an endeavor would be astronomical. And yes, I'm speaking from cold hard facts. So I suggest you get real with yourself.

As far as being white, look at the who the pushback is coming from. Maybe I should say the vast majority of the irrational pushback comes from the Republican side of the aisle (which happens to be white). Why? Because with the addition of 20 million minorities that's a major boost for the other side of the aisle. COLD HARD FACT, DIVULGE OF EMOTION!!!

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## jimmyinkedup

Give us your tired your poor your huddled masses.....

yeah f- that - we have enough in those catergories within our borders now that we SHOULD be focusing on. Im tired of all this international intervention and playing savior with others natural disasters etc. We need to clean our own closet. 
If a charity called you and you were in a position not only to not pay your own bills but you owed substantial amounts of money....would you/ could you give ? Why do we ? 
Anyways im done ranting...


Hey BgMc31 - any good sheep hunting out there lately ?

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## BgMc31

> Give us your tired your poor your huddled masses.....
> 
> yeah f- that - we have enough in those catergories within our borders now that we SHOULD be focusing on. Im tired of all this international intervention and playing savior with others natural disasters etc. We need to clean our own closet. 
> If a charity called you and you were in a position not only to not pay your own bills but you owed substantial amounts of money....would you/ could you give ? Why do we ? 
> Anyways im done ranting...
> 
> 
> Hey BgMc31 - any good sheep hunting out there lately ?


Jimmy, I didn't hit the mountains this year brotha. Had too much going on, but from what I've heard, it's been a good season. The massive amounts of rain/snow we've gotten in the state has been a boom for hunting. I'm pissed I wasn't able to go out. Next season, though, I'm all over hit. I got me a new .44 caliber winchester I'm dyin to use!!!

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## Public Enemy

> EDIT: there is a point towards the end where the Cop says "but this is pointless, why put people in it?" and that is the point. It's used or you have to admit it is pointless. Take Iraq and Afghanistan. Completely, and utterly pointless. Do you think the US and the UK are ever going to admit that? They'd rather send more soldiers off to die for nothing than admit that. If there is a real crime its how apathetic Government leaders are towards human life. All that matters to them is money. There is no conspiracy. Mexico has no conspiracy. They have a shitty, corrupt system and thats it.


Agree with this 100%. Well said.

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## Phosphor

> You've got my perspective totally wrong. I don't believe in world of make believe of unicorns and rainbows. Quite the contrary. What I'm saying is the logistics of rounding up, supposedly, 20million people. Using the military sets a bad precedent. It's against the law the govern the power of the military. I can't stand the fact the we are the world's police and are looked upon to take care of the worlds ills. My posts are about immigration are strictly from a logistical point of view. The expense of such an endeavor would be astronomical. And yes, I'm speaking from cold hard facts. So I suggest you get real with yourself.
> 
> As far as being white, look at the who the pushback is coming from. Maybe I should say the vast majority of the irrational pushback comes from the Republican side of the aisle (which happens to be white). Why? Because with the addition of 20 million minorities that's a major boost for the other side of the aisle. COLD HARD FACT, DIVULGE OF EMOTION!!!


You think it is irrational pushback? Really? What is exactly irrational about not wanting someone here that breaks the law and takes from the system with little to give back. As you prolly have guessed, I am one of those pushing back and it has nothing to do with them being a voting base. They broke the law and are here illegally. They are a burden on our already overburdened system full of deadbeats. Having 20million illegals here is not an asset, but a detriment in any way one can look at it. I don't care who wants them politically, however I am sure certain politicians would love to have millions more dependent on government checks to get a vote regardless of the damage that is done. You really need to work on cold hard facts CAPS when they are actually your opinions. I know democrats have been swaying in favor of immigration control more and more over the past few years - it might be because they are seeing the realities of what is happening and what is to come if something is not changed.

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## BgMc31

Irrational? Yes. Coming up with illogical solutions for this problem equals irrational. Nobody is debating that they broke the law. If you read my response, I'm talking about coming up with real world solutions to this problem. Democrats have always been on the side of immigration control, remember it was Ronnie Reagan who instituted the open door policy that has lead to this problem. Don't allow your emotion to cloud your judgement, trust when I say that we want the same thing. We just have a different approach. You might want to check your own facts, 20million deadbeats? You're wrong on this assumption. And as far as voting base is concerned, this is YOUR opinion. You may want to look deeper. Politicians on both side of the aisle care more about elections than the direction of this country, so they divide the masses and this is one of those topics.

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## Phosphor

I was too young for when Reagan made those decisions for me to care about politics at the time. When I started to care, I thought the decision was a mistake. For you to bring him up makes me think that since he was a conservative republican, it further cements your argument. I am not sure where you see my judgement is clouded in emotion, looks more like you trying to turn the tables than anything. Yes, 20 million deadbeats if you want to read it literally. How are they employed by being an illegal? They either get paid under the table or they have a stolen identity through bogus soc. numbers. The 1/3 of mexicos economy is through legal and illegal (guess the majority) 'undocumented workers' sending back checks to their families to mexico. I do not blame them wanting to help their families, but that alone is a huge loss in money that should be cycled back into our own country. I never offered a 'solution' in my posts. I find it disingenuous that since you disagree with one posters solution, you blanket the whole surge in outrage in illegal immagration as irrational. I have done my homework well enough to know more than the average person already on the subject and for you to suggest otherwise amuses me. There is no way we are going to convince one another of our own perspectives, so I will just agree to disagree with you on the subject.

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## BgMc31

Agreed (to disagree). Good debate, though. Kudos to you for keeping it (relatively, lol) civil!! LOL!!!

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## swllce

I did not have time to read this whole tread.Just to put in my 2 cents.
We are arming the los zetas militants who are murdering peapole with ak 47 assault rifles .
There is no limit on how many assault rifles can be purchased in one day in the state of Arizona.Therfore there is no limit on how large their army can grow.The drug cartelles trying to control the town of Juarres have more cash than alqaida.The power of the NRA is standing i the way of stopping the guns flowing into Mexico.Call me a liberal ,I just call it common sense.The right to bear arms should not include assault rifles by the dozen

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## Phosphor

> Agreed (to disagree). Good debate, though. Kudos to you for keeping it (relatively, lol) civil!! LOL!!!


Yes, I told that to my wife discussing it with her yesterday about our conversations. It can get heated, sure. Even though we disagree on some pointed issues, it didn't turn into the usual vitriolic internet bashing. Hats off to you.

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## Phosphor

> I did not have time to read this whole tread.Just to put in my 2 cents.
> We are arming the los zetas militants who are murdering peapole with ak 47 assault rifles .
> There is no limit on how many assault rifles can be purchased in one day in the state of Arizona.Therfore there is no limit on how large their army can grow.The drug cartelles trying to control the town of Juarres have more cash than alqaida.The power of the NRA is standing i the way of stopping the guns flowing into Mexico.Call me a liberal ,I just call it common sense.The right to bear arms should not include assault rifles by the dozen


My right to bear arms should not be perverted or abolished, especially from drug cartels. There are laws in place that should be keeping them from purchasing anything firearms related. Either you are incorrect or the laws are not being enforced that are in place now. The NRA upholds the constitution for the right to bear arms for it's American citizens, not for cartels. If we go to your end conclusion (and laws are actually enforced properly), the only people that will have these types of firearms are the cartels. Close the loopholes and enforce laws that are already in place, not make new ones. The more legislators are busy, the less rights we have. Is there any links you can provide that information your claiming? I am not familier with Arizona laws, but surely they do not allow anyone but citizens from purchasing fireams?

Meanwhile, out border agents are forced to use paintball guns and beanbag guns to defend themselves. There is your 'final solution' at work. http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crim...7d70b8a31.html Our government has our guys protecting our borders like this? Glad to see those extra dollars Obama has put into border securty is being put to good use.

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## BgMc31

> My right to bear arms should not be perverted or abolished, especially from drug cartels. There are laws in place that should be keeping them from purchasing anything firearms related. Either you are incorrect or the laws are not being enforced that are in place now. The NRA upholds the constitution for the right to bear arms for it's American citizens, not for cartels. If we go to your end conclusion (and laws are actually enforced properly), the only people that will have these types of firearms are the cartels. Close the loopholes and enforce laws that are already in place, not make new ones. The more legislators are busy, the less rights we have. Is there any links you can provide that information your claiming? I am not familier with Arizona laws, but surely they do not allow anyone but citizens from purchasing fireams?
> 
> Meanwhile, out border agents are forced to use paintball guns and beanbag guns to defend themselves. There is your 'final solution' at work. http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crim...7d70b8a31.html Our government has our guys protecting our borders like this? Glad to see those extra dollars Obama has put into border securty is being put to good use.


Wow, something we actually agree on!!!!

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## swllce

The ban on purchasing assault rifles in Arizona expired in 2004.


> My right to bear arms should not be perverted or abolished, especially from drug cartels. There are laws in place that should be keeping them from purchasing anything firearms related. Either you are incorrect or the laws are not being enforced that are in place now. The NRA upholds the constitution for the right to bear arms for it's American citizens, not for cartels. If we go to your end conclusion (and laws are actually enforced properly), the only people that will have these types of firearms are the cartels. Close the loopholes and enforce laws that are already in place, not make new ones. The more legislators are busy, the less rights we have. Is there any links you can provide that information your claiming? I am not familier with Arizona laws, but surely they do not allow anyone but citizens from purchasing fireams?
> 
> Meanwhile, out border agents are forced to use paintball guns and beanbag guns to defend themselves. There is your 'final solution' at work. http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crim...7d70b8a31.html Our government has our guys protecting our borders like this? Glad to see those extra dollars Obama has put into border securty is being put to good use.

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## Phosphor

Oh, thats what you meant. For some reason, I find the whole argument distasteful since I wholly disagree with the federal government playing nanny on exactly what guns I can and cannot purchase. Whether they be shotguns, hunting rifles, assault guns, handguns, etc. they are all deadly. Besides the scary 'assault' word, I could hold my own quite nicely with my 45mag hunting rifle against some cartel douche spraying an AK. Since I did not know about this particular issue, I dug deeper to see if your claims linking the expired ban to mexican drug cartels held any water. What you will find in this article sheds light on the situation and shines the spotlight, not on the expired ban, but on a Justice Department-approved plan by ATF to disrupt a drug cartel:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...fforts-border/

Read the article in it's entirety. This is criminal gun-trafficking and also ties with the ATF - circumventing our laws that lawbiding American citizens follow. Whatever extra laws that they can imagine and cram down our throats, we will follow them and the criminals will not. Because they are: CRIMINALS. No, I didn't go to fox, I did some simple google searches and found other related articles as well that backs the story. This was posted yesterday on exactly what your trying to lead us to believe. I find your link to blaming the expired gun ban/NRA and arming the zetas to be wildly incorrect, unless you would like to send us some links to prove your point and disproving my link somehow. Otherwise, nice try.

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## lovbyts

There is more the ATF. Read this, it's called Fast and Furious guns.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/...2003***1.shtml

For those who dont want to read, short story is the ATF supplied the guns more or less that are a large part of the war going on in Mexico.

It's not just a rumor, one of the head boarder patrol agents and several of his co workers have been complaining for a long time about the tactic and stepped forward to the public when one of his friends was killed with one of the guns the ATF let then have.

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## Phosphor

I tried the link and it went to CBS, but not found. I did a simple search on CBS for ATF and got these:

http://www.cbsnews.com/1770-5_162-0....type=cbsSearch

Some of these are quite the eye opener. The titled "AK47s vs. bean bags in border drug wars" blows my mind as well. How far up does this decision go? Whoever it is, they need to be dismissed immediately. This is not a hindsight is 20/20 point of view either. If they could not put forth the effort to follow this decision and see this kind of fallout (even if it was a posibility), then who knows what other poor decisions they could make that would endanger our agents and citizens. With one agency feeding them weapons and another government agency arming our border security with beanbags, you couldn't pay me enough to ever want to be border patrol. If I had to guess, there are people in those positions as security avoiding illegals if at all possible for fear of either getting killed or getting arrested by our government for excessive force and followup lawsuits.

The state of our borders is more of a joke than ever before with these latest discoveries from various news sources. To add even more to it, after two of our federal agents were ambushed south of the border (one killed, one severely wounded), Obama said yesterday that he will not let any of them arm themselves - but still require them to conduct operations there. I must live in some alternate universe where the voice of reason and logic is banned.

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## lovbyts

Strange, yeah if you Google ATF fast and furious weapons it takes you right to the CBS report but the link doesnt.

Yes someone screwed up big time and trying to cover their butt. It was on the news yesterday morning.

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## Public Enemy

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd she quit...
*
Mexican police chief applies for asylum in U.S.*

The 20-year-old mother and criminology student who made headlines last year when she volunteered to serve as police chief in a violent northern Mexican town has applied for political asylum in the United States and is awaiting a hearing on her request, Mexican officials said.

Marisol Valles, who lasted just four months in her post, is waiting to appear before an immigration judge in Dallas, Texas, Chihuahua state Human Rights Commission official Gustavo De la Rosa Hickerson told Efe.

Valles, who became famous last October when she accepted the job of police chief in Praxedis G. Guerrero, a border town about 100 kilometers (62 miles) from Ciudad Juarez, was fired on Monday for abandoning her post.

The young woman was fired after she failed to return to her post following a leave request granted on March 2, municipal officials said.

Valles fled Mexico because she "received a threat and that justified that she withdrew to the United States along with her family," Chihuahua state Attorney General Jorge Gonzalez Nicolas told a press conference last week.

The young woman, who studied criminology, volunteered to take the police chief's job after the town government could find no one else willing to lead the force in the wake of the killings of several officers by drug cartel gunmen.

Valles is in Dallas and working with counsel on her asylum application, a Texas immigration lawyer told Efe on Tuesday by telephone.

"If you go to the international bridges, they'll arrest you, but if you go to one of the offices in Dallas, where Marisol is, the process is a legal process and not a police one or persecution," the attorney said on condition of anonymity.

Praxedis G. Guerrero is in the Juarez Valley, near Ciudad Juarez, Mexico's murder capital.

"Here, everyone is afraid," Marisol Valles said last October when she took charge of the 19-member police force in Praxedis, vowing to "replace that fear with security."

Drug cartels are trying to drive people out of communities in the Juarez Valley to facilitate their smuggling activities, analysts say.

Ciudad Juarez, just across the Rio Grande from El Paso, Texas, has suffered some 8,000 gangland killings since the beginning of 2008.

The carnage is blamed on a battle between drug cartels to control the prime smuggling route into the United States.

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## clemont51

Big Mac, you are still under the influence of High School civics. There is not an anthropologist in the world who does
not recognize differences in cognitive abilities. Tests administered to mestizoes who have were born here and live in
our culture bears out the 85 IQ. And you, a seemingly intelligent chap, spews out stuff about testing circa 1900. What tests?
And just this past week the Department of Justice order the City of Dayton OH to lower their testing requirements as minorities
were not passing. From the Bell Curve to the Journal Mankind Quarterly there is no longer any arguements. Sad thing is that
we have exported jobs, steel, etc., that gave a decent wage to persons of minimal skills. I suggest that readers of this thread
dig as deeply as time permits to establish an overview on race and intelligence, race and color preference, and race and athletic ability. Otherwise you will be in the position of believing that biological factors play nothing in a individuals performance.
(Same as saying Beagles and Terriers behave the same.)

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## BgMc31

No Clement, I just don't subscribe to your bigotted ideology. I have advanced degrees in sociology so I'm pretty far from high school civics. Here's what you fail to understand and even consider, you cannot administer an IQ test based on Americans standards of knowledge to those who haven't been fully exposed or given equal access to. 

But if you want to believe that white, Europeans are at the top of the food chain in terms of intelligence in order to overcompensate for your own shortcomings, than that's fine. But save that rhetoric for the white supremacists sites. If you have some VALID proof to your theories (peered reviewed sources) then post them and I'll be happy to read them.

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## thegodfather

Jeez....so many opinions that are just based on...................shit...and a general lack of knowledge about the Constitution, the government, current affairs, research, and statistics regarding the problems being discussed. 

First off, turning this discussion into some sort of platform to celebrate the success's of Raegan is pointless. The President does weild a great degree of power in our country, and more so as of the current and past 2-3 administrations, due to the power grab by the Executive. But it's important to realise that it is not ONLY the President of the US who effects most of the change in our country. It is also Congressmen and Senators, and Supreme Court judges (via judicial activism). 

Second, what actually happens INSIDE Mexico, I could give two shits about. It is only when those crimes start to spill over into the United States that they become the problem of the American government. What does the OP propose that we do to combat killings in towns within Mexico? We have absolutely no authority inside of a sovereign state, and can do little to help them. Their government from the top to the bottom is rife with corruption, and they are bordering on a 'failed state'. This means, there are regions of their country which are essentially lawless, and they cannot enforce the laws of their lands. 

Rather then write you a dissertation, I'll simply make a numbered list of ways in which we can combat crime, illegal immigration, and other problems related to the events taking place in Mexico that effect our country. 

1. End the 'wars' in Afghanistan and Iraq, which cost our country roughly $130 billion dollars per year, and has put the country trillions of dollars in debt. It is inaccurate to say that we do not have the funds to secure our southern border (and inacceptable) when we waste billions of dollars per year fighting a war of aggression, and engaging in nation building. We invaded Iraq without a declaration of war (ONLY Congress can declare war), and we did so based on at best what would be considered exaggerated information, it is time for us to leave, the future of the Iraqi government is none of our business, and it does not in anyway effect our national security (the only Constitutional reason that we are permitted to declare war). We invaded Afghanistan in order to destroy Al-Qaeda and kill/capture Osama Bin Laden. We have failed miserably to do the latter, and doing the former is a futile effort. The people fighting us in Afghanistan now, are the Taliban, who simply want us out of their country. It is not our place to tell them what kind of government they should have, and nowhere in the Constitution does it say we should spread 'democracy' and 'freedom' by force. Recalling all of those troops from both regions, would give us the money and manpower to secure our border. 

2. Recall all of our troops, and close down the army bases that we operate in 130 out of 190 countries around the world. Once again, nowhere in the Constitution does it allow for us to have military bases in foreign countries. This is akin to a modern day imperialism, and it does nothing to help the national security of the 50 states to have 30,000 troops stationed in South Korea, or to have several thousand troops stationed in Japan. The Constitution says that we should have a strong national DEFENSE. Our troops can do a much better job of DEFENDING our country from threats, at home. In addition, our country cannot afford to maintain such a strong worldwide presence anymore. We can free up billions of dollars per year to be spent at home, by ending our imperialism. 

3. Use the funds from points 1.&2. to construct a strong border fence. Increase the budget and manpower of the Customs&Border Patrol to the necessary levels. Employ the National Guard and the Coast Guard (to patrol the waterways where Americans have been killed by Mexican drug runners) to further secure the border if necessary. 

4. Use funds from 1.&2. to begin rounding up and deporting every illegal immigrant in the country. Set up a program by which, when illegal immigrants are arrested for motor vehicle crimes and such, they are not let go and given a court date as is the present system (because there is no formal system for deporting illegals, discovered to be illegals, in most states). The problem is not that we lack the laws to control illegal immigration, the problem is that we lack the ability to ENFORCE those laws, or do not have a clearly defined system to do so. Once an illegal immigrant is discovered, there is no question that deportation proceedings should be started immediately. NO AMNESTY should EVER be considered under ANY circumstances. It is counterintuitive to REWARD a person for BREAKING THE LAW. A person who enters our country ILLEGALLY is a CRIMINAL. They do not have the right to be there, it is identical to breaking into someones house. It is important though, that we establish and implement a strong plan to protect and enforce our border, otherwise massive deportation is futile. 

5. Allowing unfettered illegal immigration does not benefit our country economically. You will hear arguments back and forth, and usually they are centered along party lines. One thing I find particularly funny, is that the "45 million uninsured Americans" included 20 million illegal immigrants in that number. It is absurd to think that criminals who broke into our country deserve a single public service provided by our country. Illegal immigration has REAL impacts economically on communities. Many municipalities in and near border towns are being BANKRUPTED, their schools, clinics, and other public services are being bankrupted. Illegal immigrants take from the town, while contributing no taxes. This is clearly unsustainable, as the town tries to support a surplus of people who are not paying taxes, while burdening the ones who do. According to one study, illegal immigration will cost each and every American tax payer $87,000 over their lifetime in taxes to support the various social welfare programs and healthcare that these illegals take advantage of. 


Thats it for now...I dont have the time to address some of the inaccuracies stated in the thread, nor the patience.

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## Public Enemy

Great post godfather. But expecting America to fully turn back to what the constitution speaks of is impossible today. The America you describe in your post is what America is suppose to look like in a world that is not fighting for natural resources, imperial control, etc. The United States is committed to keeping the title of "The World Policeman" even if it means leaving its own backyard in ruins. Truth is that America is more concerned how the tyrant Saudi Royal family will manage and how the corrupt governments of Afghanistan and Iraq will bring security to their countries, rather than focusing on its own security.

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## songdog

WOW this was some heavy SH_T man.

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## swllce

Who is profiting from all the assault rifles and guns being sold to the drug gangs?
Plenty of Arizona gunshows,with blood money to be made.
We only go after the drug smugglers though ,can't mess with the constitution,wouldn't want to ruffle the feathers of the NRA.

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