# STEROIDS FORUM > HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY- Low T, Anti-Aging > "Before you start HRT- what your doctor probably hasn't told you or doesn't know!" >  In Need of Serious Advice and direction on TRT

## LMC4

Hey guys, I'm brand new to the forum and this is the first place i went after introducing myself. I'm 23 years old and less than a year ago I was put on a regimen of 200mg/1ml of test cypionate a week, and just recently (a few weeks ago) got it bumped up to 400mg a week from 2 injections. My T levels initially were low, but it was caused by depression, a severe alcohol problem, and awful diet. I was excited at first to start TRT and it changed my life. Im 6'2 and 215lbs ~6-7% BF. 
I'm confident that I can come off TRT and resume a more normal level of T, but I don't want to lose my prescription because I want to cycle and grow some serious mass. My question is: Can I stay on my weekly dose of 400mg and still grow in size and eventually come off TRT to a normal healthy level? Or should I get off of it asap and just buy my gear from a source online? 

Im looking for genuine advice...questions and comments welcomed.

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## EDCG19

Your dosage looks more to be of cycle levels and not proper TRT. Why was it raised so high? 
How does your blood work look so far?

Are you using AI or HCG ?
Regarding getting a source online vs legal prescription it is up to the individual and I can't really say much in those terms...

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## LMC4

> Your dosage looks more to be of cycle levels and not proper TRT. Why was it raised so high? 
> How does your blood work look so far?
> 
> Are you using AI or HCG ?
> Regarding getting a source online vs legal prescription it is up to the individual and I can't really say much in those terms...


I have an understanding with my doctor and I told him straight up that I was happy with my results from being on 200mg/wk and asked if I could safely increase my dose to hopefully gain more mass. But now I'm hearing its ultimately not beneficial for bodybuilding to stay on T and cycling it is the more effective way to go. I also don't want to stay on it if its going to hinder my natural production in the long run.
Blood showed that i was in the 800 range when I was previously in the 300 mark. I haven't done blood yet since starting 400mg/wk. And no Im not using an AI or HCG but my blood showed that i wasnt converting anything to estrogen...but that was at 200mg/wk. Ill get labs done soon.

I have been told a couple sites for gear but I don't want to order from them until I can possibly cross check them with other members here on the forums.

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## MuscleScience

I don't understand why you would want to up your dose or mess with losing your HRT. Rarely do they put people your age on HRT. To be honest, if your not growing at 200mg a week, I don't know if you will grow at 400mg per week.

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## LMC4

> I don't understand why you would want to up your dose or mess with losing your HRT. Rarely do they put people your age on HRT. To be honest, if your not growing at 200mg a week, I don't know if you will grow at 400mg per week.


...with all due respect, read the post again. I don't think you understand what I'm saying.

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## kelkel

> Hey guys, I'm brand new to the forum and this is the first place i went after introducing myself. I'm 23 years old and less than a year ago I was put on a regimen of 200mg/1ml of test cypionate a week, and just recently (a few weeks ago) got it bumped up to 400mg a week from 2 injections. My T levels initially were low, but it was caused by depression, a severe alcohol problem, and awful diet. I was excited at first to start TRT and it changed my life. Im 6'2 and 215lbs ~6-7% BF. 
> I'm confident that I can come off TRT and resume a more normal level of T, but I don't want to lose my prescription because I want to cycle and grow some serious mass. My question is: Can I stay on my weekly dose of 400mg and still grow in size and eventually come off TRT to a normal healthy level? Or should I get off of it asap and just buy my gear from a source online? 
> 
> Im looking for genuine advice...questions and comments welcomed.



You mean your depression meds basically crashed your T, correct? If you went to your doctor and told him that you'd like to try restarting your system why would he not help you? Then if it was not successful you could resume treatment. Speaking of which, 200 mgs per week is high end trt which most guys never need. 400 pw is a cycle, to be clear. 

Not using an AI and HCG is a mistake. Everyone converts T to E. I'd be quite surprised that when on 200 mgs if you did not actually need one. Further I'd bet money the doc tested estradiol instead of the proper E2 Sensitive Assay. Which means the results you viewed are probably incorrect. On 400 mgs you no doubt need and AI. To think otherwise if foolish. 

Coming off would require an effective pct plan that you could probably discuss with your doc since he's already willing to risk his license writing you for 400 mgs pw. I see no reason why he would not write you for Clomid and Nolva in effort to assist. Again, if not successful you can always fall back on TRT but I seriously suggest a normal dose. In the long term on your 200 mg dose or 400 mg dose you will eventually have issues, particularly with your RBC's.

ps: this is what 6-7% body fat actually looks like. If you're that lean please post a pic, most members here would be glad to see it.

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## LMC4

> You mean your depression meds basically crashed your T, correct? If you went to your doctor and told him that you'd like to try restarting your system why would he not help you? Then if it was not successful you could resume treatment. Speaking of which, 200 mgs per week is high end trt which most guys never need. 400 pw is a cycle, to be clear. 
> 
> Not using an AI and HCG is a mistake. Everyone converts T to E. I'd be quite surprised that when on 200 mgs if you did not actually need one. Further I'd bet money the doc tested estradiol instead of the proper E2 Sensitive Assay. Which means the results you viewed are probably incorrect. On 400 mgs you no doubt need and AI. To think otherwise if foolish. 
> 
> Coming off would require an effective pct plan that you could probably discuss with your doc since he's already willing to risk his license writing you for 400 mgs pw. I see no reason why he would not write you for Clomid and Nolva in effort to assist. Again, if not successful you can always fall back on TRT but I seriously suggest a normal dose. In the long term on your 200 mg dose or 400 mg dose you will eventually have issues, particularly with your RBC's.
> 
> ps: this is what 6-7% body fat actually looks like. If you're that lean please post a pic, most members here would be glad to see it.


I am not equipped with the same knowledge as you or probably most members of this forum and I wont pretend to know either, thats why I'm here. Arms wide open hoping to learn from the veterans. 

I was never on antidepressants. I started going to the doctor to see what damage i had done from being an alcoholic and I wanted make sure I was okay. I've since quit drinking and focus on my diet, lifting, making the best choices I can to keep my mind in a happy state. It's going well, just trying to get big now...been my dream since I was a kid.

I got my numbers done at a nutrishop using one of those InBody machines. I was skeptical but the guy assured me that they are fairly accurate...according to the photo you showed its incorrect. I look more like the 10% BF pic. It also says that I'm 146.8 lbs of water weight too though, wouldn't that mean I look a lot softer than I actually am?

I just looked at my blood work and you are correct...he tested estradiol, FSH, LH, and Testosterone . Estradiol reads at 31.8 pg/ml though I don't know what that means, I've put all my faith in my doctors judgment and it appears like I shouldn't if hes not testing for the right things. And I'm not sure if hes risking his license, the way it works with my insurance is I cant get 10ml vials...only 1ml vials but I get multiple. Each is 200mg. So even if I was prescribed .75ml twice a week Id still be given two 200mg/ml vials and I would just toss out what I don't use.

If I can do a proper PCT and come off TRT and still be at a healthy normal T level, would it be better to cycle at 400mg/wk or should I lower my dosage and stay on TRT for an extended period of time and then come off and do PCT? 

I have another app next week. I'll talk to him about clomid/nolvadex and ask about getting the correct labs done.

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## Obs

> I don't understand why you would want to up your dose or mess with losing your HRT. Rarely do they put people your age on HRT. To be honest, if your not growing at 200mg a week, I don't know if you will grow at 400mg per week.


It gets more common every day. Its usually that one doctor that really doesn't know shit but has a medical license.

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## kelkel

> I am not equipped with the same knowledge as you or probably most members of this forum and I wont pretend to know either, thats why I'm here. Arms wide open hoping to learn from the veterans. 
> 
> I was never on antidepressants. I started going to the doctor to see what damage i had done from being an alcoholic and I wanted make sure I was okay. I've since quit drinking and focus on my diet, lifting, making the best choices I can to keep my mind in a happy state. It's going well, just trying to get big now...been my dream since I was a kid.
> 
> I got my numbers done at a nutrishop using one of those InBody machines. I was skeptical but the guy assured me that they are fairly accurate...according to the photo you showed its incorrect. I look more like the 10% BF pic. It also says that I'm 146.8 lbs of water weight too though, wouldn't that mean I look a lot softer than I actually am?
> 
> I just looked at my blood work and you are correct...he tested estradiol, FSH, LH, and Testosterone . Estradiol reads at 31.8 pg/ml though I don't know what that means, I've put all my faith in my doctors judgment and it appears like I shouldn't if hes not testing for the right things. And I'm not sure if hes risking his license, the way it works with my insurance is I cant get 10ml vials...only 1ml vials but I get multiple. Each is 200mg. So even if I was prescribed .75ml twice a week Id still be given two 200mg/ml vials and I would just toss out what I don't use.
> 
> If I can do a proper PCT and come off TRT and still be at a healthy normal T level, would it be better to cycle at 400mg/wk or should I lower my dosage and stay on TRT for an extended period of time and then come off and do PCT? 
> ...


Glad to hear that you were not on anti-depressants! Curious what your LH & FSH levels were pre-TRT (include ranges please) as these indicate pituitary function. LH/FSH then signal the testies to produce testosterone and spermatogenesis. Total T and Free T as well if you have them. Honestly if you can post up the labs it would help, just redact any personal info. 

Regarding vials/amps, simply buy some sterile vials at any on-line peptide warehouse or similar and transfer the excess into them. 

When it comes to re-starting you won't know unless you try. Running hcg during this time frame would have been a plus to help keep the testies functioning and producing intra-testicular T and E. If you doctor will help you with things ask for HCG and run it for a while prior to cessation of T injections. We can help you with it if it works out for you. Most docs are clueless about this sort of thing. TRT as well as they typically only receive a few hours on hormones while in med school.

I posted the BF% chart so you get a good idea of what the percentages actually are. Most guys have no clue until they can visualize it.

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## LMC4

> Glad to hear that you were not on anti-depressants! Curious what your LH & FSH levels were pre-TRT (include ranges please) as these indicate pituitary function. LH/FSH then signal the testies to produce testosterone and spermatogenesis. Total T and Free T as well if you have them. Honestly if you can post up the labs it would help, just redact any personal info. 
> 
> Regarding vials/amps, simply buy some sterile vials at any on-line peptide warehouse or similar and transfer the excess into them. 
> 
> When it comes to re-starting you won't know unless you try. Running hcg during this time frame would have been a plus to help keep the testies functioning and producing intra-testicular T and E. If you doctor will help you with things ask for HCG and run it for a while prior to cessation of T injections. We can help you with it if it works out for you. Most docs are clueless about this sort of thing. TRT as well as they typically only receive a few hours on hormones while in med school.
> 
> I posted the BF% chart so you get a good idea of what the percentages actually are. Most guys have no clue until they can visualize it.


Here are some pictures of my labs prior to TRT:





These are after a few months:





And just for shits heres the paper I got from the InBody machine:



I read up on HCG a little bit just now, the consensus seems to be that its significantly more expensive from the pharm...I'll need to look into my other options and see if I can find a source. I dont want to rack up the bills too much if I dont have to.

Also, thank you for taking the time to give me a little guidance. I really appreciate it. Truly.

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## kelkel

Free test and SHBG would have been great on pre TRT labs as well as prolactin and cortisol.
Really would have been good to have LH/FSH in the pre TRT BW. Did I miss it?
Interesting how your triglycerides took a huge drop after initiating testosterone .
LH/FSH post TRT just shows that your endogenous production is shut down. No need to run them again unless restarting.
Total T level appears fine but still need free Test and shbg to really know how you're doing. Free T is what works for you, not total T.
HCG is easily sourcable and not that expensive via the internet.

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