# STEROIDS FORUM > ANABOLIC STEROIDS - QUESTIONS & ANSWERS >  AAS- Tips on keeping gains for the moderate user

## marcus300

*Keeping gains*- 

These tips are for the moderate user and not for the high dose or long term AAS user, these basic methods will help maintain a degree of muscularity while in the off period. If all procedures are carried out during cycle you would of maximise gains and will be carrying new muscle tissue, then you need to focus on the off period and put yourself in an optimal position to keeping your new found gains once the cycle is stopped. 

*Recovery*- One of the areas of focus is the HPTA (Hypothalamus-pituitary-testicular axis), Recovering the HPTA is vital to maintaining gains, typically on a 10-12 week standard AAS cycle will almost certainly cause full suppression/shutdown despite any strategies we might undertake. The natural androgen production needs to be quickly recovered so anabolic hormones are up and running to help maintain the new found muscle. This is why post cycle therapy is vital and the correct protocol's are adhered to. Shorter cycles are becoming increasingly more popular because with these type of cycles there is a significant chance you will have testicular function straight after or very shortly after the cycle as stopped and recovery looks to be alot faster, not in all cases that would depend on compounds used but overall, the shorter the cycle the quicker the recovery. 

Once the cycle as stopped we must preserve our gains and if steps haven't been taken during cycle we must now take some steps to reduce estrogen binding in the hypothalamus.You have to look at post cycle estrogen this can be a huge problem for some and this will have a negative impact on recovery of your HPTA just like androgens can and do in this period. The only way to fully recover your HPTA is to completely come off cycle, with this day and age of PCT compounds to recover with, the job will be alot easier. Problems occur if you stayed on cycle for to long or keep taking low suppression drugs to bridge cycles together, all this will have an effect on your HPTA and long term health. Recovery and maintenance of the new found gains are the objects at this stage and stay as healthy as possible, remember suppression and shutdown are linked they both effect your HPTA, so get a decent PCT protocol and recover as fast as possible. The common ancillary drugs what will support the post cycle and the recovery period are clomid,nolvadex ,a-dex and HCG to name a few. Please check out the PCT section and the stickies for protocols and further advice.

*Nutrition* - is another area which we must focus on to help maintain the new found gains, after a cycle androgen levels are going to be lower than normal even with the above strategies. We have to maximise the anabolic hormones as much as possible while our system is recovering. First we need to calculate the change in the new calories needed for the new tissue gained during the cycle and support the new tissue, a person who under eats to their requirements will be stripped of the muscle mass very quickly. 

Overeating has been shown in numerous studies to maximise these factors. Over maintenance calories are needed to promote the anabolic edge, dietary fat has an influence on androgen secretion, monounsaturated and saturated fat raises testosterone levels but polyunsaturated fat does not so a healthy diet containing O'3 and O'6 will help in this period. Eat clean and feed the new tissue with abundance of calories but always have in mind of muscle building foods and not the sugar rich alternatives we can easily lean to in this period. As testosterone returns to normal and recovery is nearly there, eating over the calories can be lowered to maintenance of the new found muscle what's been gained during the cycle. Never start dieting in the recovery stage it will strip you of your hard earned tissue. 

*Training* - If you have been training intensely during the on period you can help to maintain the new found gains with a slight alteration in the way your training. In some cases further gains have been seen in the recovery part of cycling, this is normally with short cycles and very intense training. If you implement more rest days and make sure your C.N.S gets fully recovered, further gains can be seen. Keep the training sessions down to around 30 mins and incorporate longer rest days in-between. Long workouts lower testosterone to cortisol ratio, so don't go for long workouts no matter how strong or fit you may feel, short and fast will help with recovery without further stress on your system. 

Still concentrate on the basic heavy movements this and still focus on HIT type of training, also take more attention on the eccentric part of the lift because this causes most of the muscle fibre damage, after warm up do about 2 sets per bodypart and dropset them, which should consist of eccentric reps start with maximum followed by 90% Max, then 80%max, making sure you take a good 5-6 seconds for the eccentric portion of the reps on all dropsets. There are many other ways of training to help recovery but this method does have great benefits by making the workout shorter and the muscle being hit in a different way. Further gains can be achieved if careful planning is done of your training sessions. 


Supplements- Its hard to advice what supplements will help and work for you in the recovery and maintenance period. Clearly a quality protein powder,creatine, test booster's,BCAA's, glutamine and vital vits and supps in the off period does help drastically and all aid recovery, past experience will help to pick which other supps may help and agree with your body. 

The more advance you become the more advanced procedure need to be carried out, this is just a basic methods and tips on maintaining post cycle for the moderate user.

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## Hunter

thanks for the write up marcus.

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## banthar

Nice Marcus

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## CHAP

Good work

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## marcus300

I think many people forget how important this period is, alot concentrate on the cycle and forget about this very vital part of maintenance.

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## Mooseman33

marcus, always spot on man....thanks for the info.....

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## TITANIUM

Excellent write up!Hope to see this in a sticky.BUMP!

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## *Admin*

Great thread... made this a sticky and locked it at the top of the page... this one is for comments... enjoy!

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## Dukkit

very nice bro

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## V6A6L6O

Bump...Sticky???

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## hankdiesel

I have made the mistake of dieting right after a bulking cycle. Very dumb. This is all good info. I am going to try the shorter and intesnse workouts during my recovery time which starts soon.

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## marcus300

> I have made the mistake of dieting right after a bulking cycle. Very dumb. This is all good info. I am going to try the shorter and intesnse workouts during my recovery time which starts soon.


I have made the same mistake years ago, trying to cut up during and just after PCT, big mistake. I prefer to keep in good condition all year now, no need to carry pointless fat around.

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## Immortal Soldier

Another terrible thread by Marcus, what a troll

 :2jk:

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## Arms

good post!! I to tried cutting my diet after my cycle.

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## jasperhup

here's my idea: what if you go a little overboard on an 8-10 week cycle in terms of cardio, eating on the low side of calories, volume, and extra conditioning work.

then when you hit pct, you take creatine, drop the cardio to next to none, and go higher fat and carbs for the following 4 or 5 weeks?

basically getting very lean and a bit overtrained and using that as a bit of a sling shot so that when off cycle your body is given way more fuel and recovery time?

has anyone done this intentionally to see what the results are vs a more traditional approach?

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## xephonics

great post m8, this is going to help me a lot, as I am a first time user.

so does that mean i should do 10-12 weeks of test E instead of my planned 14 wks? Or would something like taking HCG near the end of the cycle help when doing longer cycles?

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## feeldapump89

> great post m8, this is going to help me a lot, as I am a first time user.
> 
> so does that mean i should do 10-12 weeks of test E instead of my planned 14 wks? Or would something like taking HCG near the end of the cycle help when doing longer cycles?


 Is this your first cycle? You shouldnt be running over 12 weeks if it is, 10- 12 is plenty. Great thread by the way keep it up marcus your a goldmine of information.

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## bene7422

great post marcus,thanks

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## TRT,MAN

that was a very good thread marcus. it makes noobies understand what it takes afterwards to retain gains, and that there is still more work to be done post cycle.

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## marcus300

Thanks everyone...........bump

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## xo3et

Great thread, thanks Marcus

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## vpchill

This is Great Info.. Thanx Marcus

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## marcus300

Bump zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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## T-MOS

^^ hey big guy, you do know a copy of this IS already a sticky right???....LOLOL

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## marcus300

haha mmmmmm i know but how many really read them?

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## T-MOS

> haha mmmmmm i know but how many really read them?


True !! *BIG BUMP THEN*

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## marcus300

> True !! *BIG BUMP THEN*


Fuk thats bigger than mine, you bitch

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## T-MOS

> Fuk thats bigger than mine, you bitch


yea, thats what your girl told me too, but I didn't want to hurt your feelings.....LOLOL

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## marcus300

> yea, thats what your girl told me too, but I didn't want to hurt your feelings.....LOLOL


Got news for you, my girl is really a bloke post op!

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## T-MOS

> Got news for you, my girl is really a bloke post op!


damn good doc, she/he is HOTT !!

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## marcus300

> damn good doc, she/he is HOTT !!


Shame she has got aids/hep-c but thanks for making her happy for me xx

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## rocafella

great post, thanks for the info bro

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## *El Diablo*

pump

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## sitries

great post. 

iv had a nightmare with my latest 'cycle'. 20weeks (10 on deca and 20 test, with some superdrol thrown in for 4 weeks up to pct). then i did pct for 5weeks. i put on 20lbs during the cycle, by the time pct was over id lost 10lbs of this. then i strated cutting coz i was going on holiday and lost another 5lbs!! so im left with 5lbs of gains which to be honest has ****ed me off!!!! im now taking anavar while i cut to try and keep what i have!! is this bad news considering iv only had 2weeks 'offtime'??? considering my pct was only 2 weeks ago. coz iv lost so much size im even considering an 8week or 6week burst of sustanon at 750mg to try and pack some size on. then do another pct. am i going to **** myself up for life here???

its just so frustrating when you work so hard to put on the muscle then you just deflate!!

sorry to hijack by the way - just though this might be relevent to the topic.

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## Matt

Very good read lol...

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## Narkissos

Solid info here Marcus.

BUMP!

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## RANA

Great info again Marcus

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## AlphaMaleDawg

is it really that important not to exceed 30 minutes of weight training? i was been doing 45-50 minutes while off and havent lost much gains

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## kblunt

great info thanx

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## ScotchGuard

Good info Marcus. Have learned, will implement.

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## MayTryIt

Sticky fa sho!

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## D7M

:Bbbump:

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## magaton

Thanks Marcus

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## Subotai

Wow, short and useful

I've read 10 page articles that don't make it as clear as that. Thanks a lot

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## Egypt.One

Nice sum up man~!

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## marcus300

Bump t bump

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## tembe

think we need more on it about maintaining gains made via fat loss....

how to maintain a lean body from your cycle...

great read however

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## lovbyts

> I have made the same mistake years ago, trying to cut up during and just after PCT, big mistake. I prefer to keep in good condition all year now, no need to carry pointless fat around.


Very wise words. That's the problem, to many people think OLD school and try to Bulk then cut but they dont bulk clean.

That's why I preach it's a lifestyle, not a fad....




> think we need more on it about maintaining gains made via fat loss....
> 
> how to maintain a lean body from your cycle...
> 
> great read however


As I said above or more simply, loose the fat first..... stay healthy/lean. That is another reason we preach here about NOT doing a cycle until your body fat is down to the desired level so you arent trying to reduce fat on cycle and burning muscle....

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## marcus300

bump

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## bezzy

quality read helped me out!! simply wrote out for the simple minds

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## ds53

Your on a roll tonight! Good Work!

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## songdog

very good read bro.

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## Callsign

Im pretty new here, & going to hav to brush up on my terminology.. Eccentric? Dropset?.. Goin to hav2do sum research n read this again.. I'm just about finished with my hcg post cycle therapy , & think I look better & leaner. I didnt change my diet at all after stopping the test.. Thanks for all the good info.. You guys are going to help alot of folks like myself take this to another level.

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## marcus300

> Im pretty new here, & going to hav to brush up on my terminology.. Eccentric? Dropset?.. Goin to hav2do sum research n read this again.. I'm just about finished with my hcg post cycle therapy, & think I look better & leaner. I didnt change my diet at all after stopping the test.. Thanks for all the good info.. You guys are going to help alot of folks like myself take this to another level.


eccentric: is the downward movement where the muscle lengthens as its put under stress
drop sets: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=444683

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## Callsign

Ok looked it up, read it again, & I'll start that technique today & run it for a month or so.. I've always incorporated dropsets spiratically, usually only on the last set n never concentrated on the eccentric portion. Should b fun, thanks again Marcus

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## EddiePT

good read, thank you!

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## marcus300

Bump

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## rc_p90

good shit

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## jeallybean78

Excellent article. You guys have a wealth of knowelge. Best site on the web bar none

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## bodybuilder

Thanks Marcus your the man bro.

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## VV Cephei

Excellent read, this is the type of thing I'm looking for as I'm gathering info before I start!

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## Matt

^^ Ive always found that reading these educational threads make a huge difference in our understanding and knowledge in the usage of such potentially dangerous compounds...

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## gethuge21

thanks marcus

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## CaliburKid

Excellent thread sir...

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## evander87

Very good read even if there is a stickie at the top

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## Connectorhector

Great info thanks

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## tigerspawn

Thanks for the rethread Marcus. I was reading this and having deja vu. It is good idea to repost old threads most individuals only read the current ones. There are only a few members on this site that could pull off reposting an already existing thread and your definitely one of them.

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## oatmeal69

This is my plan when I come off in a few weeks. My training will remain the same (HIT) but I will drop some of the volume, just one or two exercises per bodypart, and try to keep it to 30 min. I'll up my calories a bit, and keep doing 30 min. cardio daily.

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## Doom44

Good read

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## gymmonster

I like to stop and reread this each time l see it. Great post.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge Marcus

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## BBJT200

Great info, sticky material!

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## marcus300

to the top

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## oatmeal69

I'm scared to DEATH of adding fat when I come off... I've actually managed to shed fat AND add muscle on my current cycle thanks to following my diet pretty strictly. I know I will lose some strength and size no matter what, but I'd like to continue leaning if at all possible. Is it possible??

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## marcus300

bump

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## marcus300

worth a read

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## marcus300

i'm still bumping  :Wink:

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## marcus300

bum...

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## marcus300

sump

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## btrizzyb

> *Nutrition* - is another area which we must focus on to help maintain the new found gains, after a cycle androgen levels are going to be lower than normal even with the above strategies. We have to maximise the anabolic hormones as much as possible while our system is recovering. First we need to calculate the change in the new calories needed for the new tissue gained during the cycle and support the new tissue, a person who under eats to their requirements will be stripped of the muscle mass very quickly.


I am not quite understanding how Im supposed to do this? Im supposed to figure out how many calories I am to be taking in off cycle, but how do I do that?




> Overeating has been shown in numerous studies to maximise these factors. Over maintenance calories are needed to promote the anabolic edge, dietary fat has an influence on androgen secretion, monounsaturated and saturated fat raises testosterone levels but polyunsaturated fat does not so a healthy diet containing O'3 and O'6 will help in this period. Eat clean and feed the new tissue with abundance of calories but always have in mind of muscle building foods and not the sugar rich alternatives we can easily lean to in this period. As testosterone returns to normal and recovery is nearly there, eating over the calories can be lowered to maintenance of the new found muscle what's been gained during the cycle. Never start dieting in the recovery stage it will strip you of your hard earned tissue.


Your saying here that taking in more calories than I really need is a good thing, as long as they are clean calories? Can you explain the different types of fat so I can understand what the good fat I should be eating is? 




> *Training* - Still concentrate on the basic heavy movements this and still focus on HIT type of training, also take more attention on the eccentric part of the lift because this causes most of the muscle fibre damage, after warm up do about 2 sets per bodypart and dropset them, which should consist of eccentric reps start with maximum followed by 90% Max, then 80%max, making sure you take a good 5-6 seconds for the eccentric portion of the reps on all dropsets. There are many other ways of training to help recovery but this method does have great benefits by making the workout shorter and the muscle being hit in a different way. Further gains can be achieved if careful planning is done of your training sessions.


I had a few questions about dropsets, but I dropped them in a reply on your Dropset post that you have.




> Supplements- Its hard to advice what supplements will help and work for you in the recovery and maintenance period. Clearly a quality protein powder,creatine, test booster's,BCAA's, glutamine and vital vits and supps in the off period does help drastically and all aid recovery, past experience will help to pick which other supps may help and agree with your body.


How do I determine what a quality protein powder is? I assumed for the most part pretty much all whey protein is equal, so I jump back and forth between on Gold Standard and Elite Gourmet (which ever is cheaper). I also use Dymatizes creatine (because its the cheapest I could find). I should also be using a test booster? I havent ever gotten any BCAAs or glutamine either.

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## marcus300

bump

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## rhanor

Damn this makes me not want to even do my FIRST cycle in the coming months... all that money and effort for nothing bro... is this common or are you maxed out genetically? Are you doing it wrong?

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## rhanor

> great post. 
> 
> iv had a nightmare with my latest 'cycle'. 20weeks (10 on deca and 20 test, with some superdrol thrown in for 4 weeks up to pct). then i did pct for 5weeks. i put on 20lbs during the cycle, by the time pct was over id lost 10lbs of this. then i strated cutting coz i was going on holiday and lost another 5lbs!! so im left with 5lbs of gains which to be honest has ****ed me off!!!! im now taking anavar while i cut to try and keep what i have!! is this bad news considering iv only had 2weeks 'offtime'??? considering my pct was only 2 weeks ago. coz iv lost so much size im even considering an 8week or 6week burst of sustanon at 750mg to try and pack some size on. then do another pct. am i going to **** myself up for life here???
> 
> its just so frustrating when you work so hard to put on the muscle then you just deflate!!
> 
> sorry to hijack by the way - just though this might be relevent to the topic.


Is this normal? Makes me not want to start my first cycle in the coming months. Are you doing it wrong or are just maxed out genetically. I didnt see anything about pct...

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## rhanor

> great post. 
> 
> iv had a nightmare with my latest 'cycle'. 20weeks (10 on deca and 20 test, with some superdrol thrown in for 4 weeks up to pct). then i did pct for 5weeks. i put on 20lbs during the cycle, by the time pct was over id lost 10lbs of this. then i strated cutting coz i was going on holiday and lost another 5lbs!! so im left with 5lbs of gains which to be honest has ****ed me off!!!! im now taking anavar while i cut to try and keep what i have!! is this bad news considering iv only had 2weeks 'offtime'??? considering my pct was only 2 weeks ago. coz iv lost so much size im even considering an 8week or 6week burst of sustanon at 750mg to try and pack some size on. then do another pct. am i going to **** myself up for life here???
> 
> its just so frustrating when you work so hard to put on the muscle then you just deflate!!
> 
> sorry to hijack by the way - just though this might be relevent to the topic.


Is this normal? Makes me not want to start my first cycle in the coming months. Are you doing it wrong or are just maxed out genetically. I didnt see anything about pct...

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## rhanor

Sry for all the above post... i dont know wtf that was...

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## jay94

Thanks for the great post!

What I got from reading this:

-PCT is crucial to stay as healthy as possible and keep a lot of the gains
-PCT nutrition should be lean bulking
-PCT training routine should be short but intense workout sessions with lots of rest in between.

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## Jb818

yeah i tried to cut during pct and oh man lost practically all the gains

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## DrewZ

Glad this got bumped, good read - thanks for the write up marcus!

In regards to pct/off cycle Test boosters, can you recommend one, or your favorite ingredients to make your own?

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## marcus300

ttt..................

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## Jaakoppi

Great post from marcus!

Looks like it's a year from the last post but I will ask some tips for my 2 and a half weeks of PCT left. My first week of PCT was just pumping with light weights reps 12-20 and sets 3-6/bodypart. Now on second week I've trained wit bigger loads reps 6-10 but nothing even close to failure. My strenght has stayed good by this far. 

So how should I continue? Pushing 90% and 80% loads from max 2 sets/bodypart, but how to split bodyparts during week? Or may I ask how many training days are suffient?

There is also one little problem: I don't know my max loads except from bench. Do I just have to quess?

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## tice1212

Hey Marcus do u have a protocol for advanced users (long cycles)? If so can u provide the link. Thank bro.

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## marcus300

> Great post from marcus!
> 
> Looks like it's a year from the last post but I will ask some tips for my 2 and a half weeks of PCT left. My first week of PCT was just pumping with light weights reps 12-20 and sets 3-6/bodypart. Now on second week I've trained wit bigger loads reps 6-10 but nothing even close to failure. My strenght has stayed good by this far. 
> 
> So how should I continue? Pushing 90% and 80% loads from max 2 sets/bodypart, but how to split bodyparts during week? Or may I ask how many training days are suffient?
> 
> There is also one little problem: I don't know my max loads except from bench. Do I just have to quess?


You don't change your training in pct, what built the muscle will keep the muscle all you need to do is lower the intensity and concentrate on the eccentric part of the lift more.

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## marcus300

> Hey Marcus do u have a protocol for advanced users (long cycles)? If so can u provide the link. Thank bro.


Ya i'll work on it

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## tice1212

> Ya i'll work on it


Thanks big dog!

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## Jaakoppi

> You don't change your training in pct, what built the muscle will keep the muscle all you need to do is lower the intensity and concentrate on the eccentric part of the lift more.


If only I would have known this before. Back to heavy lifts -->

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## jackfrost88

Thanks for write up

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## marcus300

hello

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## marcus300

for you  :Wink:

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## AR's King Silabolin

> Keeping gains-
> 
> Supplements- Its hard to advice what supplements will help and work for you in the recovery and maintenance period. Clearly a quality protein powder,creatine, test booster's,BCAA's, glutamine and vital vits and supps in the off period does help drastically and all aid recovery, past experience will help to pick which other supps may help and agree with your body.
> 
> The more advance you become the more advanced procedure need to be carried out, this is just a basic methods and tips on maintaining post cycle for the moderate user.


Testboosters in pct? Really?..why would you use something which migth be suppressive in pct. And testboosters are shit. They dont work. The reports with proven testincrease dont mention its because feenugeek and others prevent dhtconversion. Dht is 5 times more anabolic than test.
I tried the most expensice booster in a pct. My worst pct ever.

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## Mr.BB

> Dht is 5 times more anabolic than test.


DHT is 5 times more *androgenic* than test... Big difference.

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## AR's King Silabolin

> DHT is 5 times more androgenic than test... Big difference.


Semanthicly yes. But then it would be ok with no converision, rigth?. WRONG. Reports show that test taken with Proscar leads to less gains. Why? Because less dht leads to a weakened CNS, slower recuparation and less igf1.
You dont wanna mess with your dht in pct. Thats why marcus69 is wrong.

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## numbere

> Semanthicly yes. But then it would be ok with no converision, rigth?. WRONG. Reports show that test taken with Proscar leads to less gains. Why? Because less dht leads to a weakened CNS, slower recuparation and less igf1.
> You dont wanna mess with your dht in pct. Thats why marcus69 is wrong.


Lol says the guy who wants to use proviron in his next PCT.

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## AR's King Silabolin

> Lol says the guy who wants to use proviron in his next PCT.


No. Proviron on cycle only. To block shbg.
My pct is always clomid nolva mk677 and sr9009.
And laughing like that is rude aswell.

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## marcus300

> I have no idea what you're talking about here or the point you're trying to convey.


Please ignore him he is a complete cunt and doest know what he's talking about. Dont respond everyone else has stopped

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## marcus300

Guys please take your arguments to his proviron thread and not this one. If it carries on i will transfer all the post to his shit thead

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## marcus300

I will transfer all posts related to this argument to sil shit thread. Closed until i sort it . Wont be long

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## marcus300

the unwanted posts have been moved to http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...iron-work.html for you guys to carry on your discussion

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