# FITNESS and NUTRITION FORUM > DIET AND NUTRITION >  My Food Plan for Constructive Criticism

## IronClydes

Hey guys, 

New to this thread and can definitely appreciate and use any advice on my diet as I post. Just finished week 3 of my blast and am running a 2900 net calorie diet (after accounting for burned calories in gym). This is about 1000 less than my last, my first, blast; 500 less than what I was at 6 weeks ago, 3400. Trying to cut down to 8-10%. I have NEVER seen my abs. lol

Current Diet follows daily nearly the same:

PreWorkout (Fasted Training)
2 scoops Legion Pulse or Assault
5g creatine
5g leucine

PostWorkout
1.34 scoop whey pro
1.5 cups Rice milk
banana
5g creatine

If I have more time before I need to head to work, then I have meal 1 before heading in and it is more appropriate for a post workout meal:
300g Jasmine Rice
120g chicken
1 tsp garlic

[UIf I am not working out this day, then just:[/U]
2 slices Ezekial Bread with 2 tbsp Natural PB
230g egg whites w/ scoop of whey pro
Coffee, stevia, non-dairy creamer

Meal 2
150g Brown Rice
150g Chicken Breast
1 cup Broccoli
15 almonds

Meal 3
150g Brown Rice
150g Chicken Breast
1 cup Broccoli
15 almonds

Meal 4
150g Sweet Potatoes
150g Chicken Breast
1 cup Broccoli
15 almonds

Bedtime
_I adjust this depending upon what I have left in my daily macros. Usually:_
230g egg whites
1 scoop whey pro
and Maybe some Ezekial bread with Natural PB if I have extra macros

Please let me know your thoughts on this! I will begin posting my meals as I go, but just wanted to set my current meal plan out there beforehand. I basically eat only these meals daily, aside from the occasionally weekly high carb cheat meal to through the metabolism off a bit. That results in one day being about 500 calories over limit.

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## Bio-Active

Why are you so low on carbs?

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## IronClydes

> Why are you so low on carbs?


Its not much of a choice. I wanted at least more than my bodyweight in protein, a minimal amount of fat to support anabolism, the remaining is all carbs:

2900 calories
64g fat
290 carbs
290 protein

40/40/20 split

What is your suggestion? You think 290 is too low?

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## Bio-Active

> Its not much of a choice. I wanted at least more than my bodyweight in protein, a minimal amount of fat to support anabolism, the remaining is all carbs: 2900 calories 64g fat 290 carbs 290 protein 40/40/20 split What is your suggestion? You think 290 is too low?


sorry brother I looked at it wrong. That's plenty. Are you trying to bulk or cut?

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## IronClydes

> sorry brother I looked at it wrong. That's plenty. Are you trying to bulk or cut?


No problem, thanks for looking at it. 

I am trying to cut the midsection....need to see under 12%, want to see under 10%. Still hanging around 14-15%.

I am hoping the blast helps me still add at least a little lean muscle in the process.

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## IronClydes

Bio, you were my only feedback so far. Thanks bro. Need to get more eyes and advice on this.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

> Bio, you were my only feedback so far. Thanks bro. Need to get more eyes and advice on this. 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


Your above calculations had you eating at TDEE, so you wouldn't have lost or gained weight. 

Let's work it out ! 

225 lbs * 0.86 = 193.5 Lean Body Mass
193.5 * 15 = 2902 cals
So let's lose 1lb a week - less 500 cals per day
Target 2400 cals

Personally I like to cut on 50/30/20
1200 cals from protein, so 4 cals per gram of protein = 300g protein ( maybe a bit more than you actually require if we go off 1.5g per lb of lean body weight ) 

Next - fats - 20% of 2400 is 480 
8cals per gram of fat, 480/8 = 60g of fat per day

Carbs 2400*0.3 = 720
720/4= 180g of carbs per day. 

So that's your basic food plan for the day. 
6 meals a day gets u 50g of protein per meal, put most of your carbs after your workouts, some for breakfast, some pre workout. 

Or play about with the carbs, you have 180 a day, or 1260 a week, you could have four days at 150g and three at 200g. This is called carb cycling. Take it a little more extreme, four at 100g three at 250ish. 

Hope this helps.

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## IronClydes

> Your above calculations had you eating at TDEE, so you wouldn't have lost or gained weight. 
> 
> Let's work it out ! 
> 
> 225 lbs * 0.86 = 193.5 Lean Body Mass
> 193.5 * 15 = 2902 cals
> So let's lose 1lb a week - less 500 cals per day
> Target 2400 cals
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time MR FQ!

I really appreciate your breaking it down like this. 

To tell you the truth, I knew I was at maintenance, but I was under the assumption that this would be ideal for a blast. Especially being that my first blast (which was my last one), I was at 4000 calories and building while cutting bf. It was quite a transformation....one I hadn't achieved my entire 20 year history of recreational lifting and 2 years of serious lifting. No doubt the blast helped substantially as I was low t (140-270 avg) for some time prior. 

Considering the effect blasting has on muscle growth and such, I thought a maintenance of 2900 intake on a blast would be equal to 2400 off a blast. This was only an assumption. I want to make the most of the blast. 

Have you any practice with blasting and how to cut while doing so? I was following advice from another member that a maintenance intake would suffice while blasting. As I just completed my 3rd week into my blast, testosterone cypionate 500 weekly, it should be fully kicking in soon (long ester). Do you still recommend following your advice with this in mind? I'm all for it, just wanted to be sure you have all the facts first  :Smilie:  I want to minimize muscle lost from cutting too many calories...granted ive never seen my abs before, I am obviously overly concerned here.

I have been wanting to try carb cycling, and I like keeping my protein high around 300 as you recommended. What is the exact weekly breakdown of how to divide high to low carb days for cycling?

Thanks again

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## MR-FQ320

Am I right in saying that you wish to burn bf while putting on muscle ? To put on weight on weight you will have to eat more than TDEE, to burn fat eat less than TDEE, to do both you will
Have to carb cycle, if you have a net zero calorie surplus at the end of the week you may have burnt fat and gained muscle, this gets harder to do the lower bf you become, choose your priority lose bf or gain muscle. The more extreme your diet the better the results will be. 

You should have sorted all this out before you started your cycle. 

It's person dependant on which should be high carb and low carb days, I switch it up and keep the body guessing. I'm moving to four low and three high so my muscles look full on a Sunday.

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## IronClydes

Thanks MR FQ,

I did sort it out prior. I started my diet to 2900 calories just over 6 weeks ago. My blast started 3 weeks ago. Prior to my calorie change I stayed in a constant state of about 500 over, which was 3400. I only brought this up because my plan was not working. After 6 weeks I have lost maybe a pound, if that. 

My priority would be to cut; however, you just said I could do both by carb cycling with a net zero by weeks' end...that means staying at my maintenance, no? My body fat is somewhere between 14-16%. I had a BodPod done a month ago at 13.8%, but there is a 2% margin for error....and I would personally add that full 2% as I look closer to 16%. 

I would definitely like to try this carb cycling as I want to keep building with the blast but desperately need to lose 5% bf as my end goal. If you can help me do that I owe you a solid. I have never seen less than a small keg where others see a 6 pack. I have good build elsewhere, but the cuts and striations hide. Endomorph...

Sounds simple enough: 

Stay at 2900 calories?

four days at 100g?
three at 250ish?

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## IronClydes

Attachment 156747

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## MR-FQ320

If you want to lose 5% - 12lbs ? How long have you got ? Go extreme ! Drop to 1900 cals net. 

Where's the cardio ?

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## IronClydes

Cardio isn't perfect, still a little short I think. 

Doing between 20-40 minutes 3-4 days a week...aiming for more though, would like about 30-45 minutes 4-5 days a week. 

Well, my blast will be fully realized in about a week, at the end of week 4 into it. After that, I am at blast for another 10 weeks...so, that is my ideal window of time since it will best prevent muscle loss.

Thoughts?

Will there be any metabolic or muscle damage done at 1900?...that's 1000 below my current, maintenance dose. 

So, at 1900 and carb cycling?....what should be my cardio goals at this?

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## IronClydes

Looking at the calories, for 1900, a 50/30/20 (pro/carb/fat) split would be:

237 protein
142 carb
42 fat

I have read that you should have at least 1.3g protein per pound when dieting to preserve muscle, that 290. Would that come from my carbs? Fats are already quite low aren't they?

How long would I run this low of a diet? Seems like it will be a nightmare to resist eating that much.

We are talking net calories, correct?

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## MR-FQ320

Have you worked out how many calories you burning through cardio ? It's net , so if u burn 300 cals in cardio, you can eat extra

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## IronClydes

> Have you worked out how many calories you burning through cardio ? It's net , so if u burn 300 cals in cardio, you can eat extra


I track all my calories and working out in MyFitnessPal. So, It will give me the extra calories when I work out, I can just set the goal as 1900 with the 50/30/20 split you specified.

Carb cycle still?

Cardio goals?

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## MR-FQ320

Run the diet till you're happy with your body ! 

Protein ideal 1-1.5g per lb lbm
Fats should be 0.4g per lb lbm so you can increase fats. Good fats only though.

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## MR-FQ320

Yes set cals to 1900 after cardio, 50/30/20

Yes still carb cycle, but you will have to manually sort / figure that out with the weekly tracker. 

Start cardio with your plan and increase as required when fat loss stalls, or readjust cals and macros.

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## IronClydes

> Yes set cals to 1900 after cardio, 50/30/20 Yes still carb cycle, but you will have to manually sort / figure that out with the weekly tracker. Start cardio with your plan and increase as required when fat loss stalls, or readjust cals and macros.


I'll give it a go starting today. Thanks for your help and taking the time. Much appreciated. 

With this new calorie goal, what should my low and my high days represent while cycling?

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

New cals 1900 - 250g pro - 1000 cals
50g fat. 
145g carbs a day, (1000 percent) so go with 100g four days, 200 three days, either consecutively or high low high low, two low one high etc etc, 


Keep me posted via this thread.

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## IronClydes

> New cals 1900 - 250g pro - 1000 cals 50g fat. 145g carbs a day, (1000 percent) so go with 100g four days, 200 three days, either consecutively or high low high low, two low one high etc etc, Keep me posted via this thread.


Thank you! Will do.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

> New cals 1900 - 250g pro - 1000 cals 50g fat. 145g carbs a day, (1000 percent) so go with 100g four days, 200 three days, either consecutively or high low high low, two low one high etc etc, Keep me posted via this thread.


Just put it all into myfitnesspal. I was able to real down day to day changing goals with the premium upgrade. See pics below:



Attachment 156763

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

> Just put it all into myfitnesspal. I was able to real down day to day changing goals with the premium upgrade. See pics below: <img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156763"/> 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


Cool ! We don't have an upgrade Option :-(

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## IronClydes

> Cool ! We don't have an upgrade Option :-(


Just became available today for the iPhone apps.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

> Just became available today for the iPhone apps. 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


And it lets you plan carb cycling ?

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## BG

Good advice. If yo want to cut/build I would increase cardio to ED, like Mr.FQ said it would allow you to eat more enabling gains. Gain/cut is the hardest thing to do, it take total dedication and more work imo. But if your up for the challenge, hit it hard.

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## NACH3

[QUOTE=BG;7045339]Good advice. If yo want to cut/build I would increase cardio to ED, like Mr.FQ said it would allow you to eat more enabling gains. Gain/cut is the hardest thing to do, it take total dedication and more work imo. But if your up for the challenge, hit it hard.[/QUOTE/]

^^^ this is not easy but if your diet is dialed in its a great way to put on a lot of mass while dropping bf! This is what I've been able to do this cycle... I primed down to 175 at 12ish Bf now I'm probly 10 but 20lbs heavier(194-196 atm 194.6 Yhis am b4 anything)... You just have to be very dedicated and don't expect everything to happen over night - it's taken me about a yr of eating right to finally start seeing what I'd like(needs to be better but that's why I'm here too)!

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## IronClydes

> And it lets you plan carb cycling ?


Yep. You can plan which days get which macro breakdowns

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

> Good advice. If yo want to cut/build I would increase cardio to ED, like Mr.FQ said it would allow you to eat more enabling gains. Gain/cut is the hardest thing to do, it take total dedication and more work imo. But if your up for the challenge, hit it hard.


Thanks BG! More cardio it is.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

Great. I'll definitely and keep you guys updated through this thread.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

Hey Nach, you said you could gain a lot of lean mass doing a cut like this? That seems hard to believe! How can you make lean gains in such a deficit? Simply because I'm eating a lot more as result of the additional calories afforded to me from doing daily cardio?

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MIKE_XXL

I start my cut usually around 210 215lba...i eat about 150gm of carbs and once a week refeed with about 600gm of carbs...when i get further into the diet i introduce the carb cycling and will do 100, 150, 200 and still one day of re-feed...my fat lose calories are about 2200cal per day...this works for me and has for a long time, but now that i am gettin golder i fid it harder to make progress at these numbers...

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## IronClydes

> I start my cut usually around 210 215lba...i eat about 150gm of carbs and once a week refeed with about 600gm of carbs...when i get further into the diet i introduce the carb cycling and will do 100, 150, 200 and still one day of re-feed...my fat lose calories are about 2200cal per day...this works for me and has for a long time, but now that i am gettin golder i fid it harder to make progress at these numbers...


Hadn't considered a refeed day during my cut, but it makes sense.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

> Hadn't considered a refeed day during my cut, but it makes sense. 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


For me, at 226 and about 15-16% body fat, doing a 1000 calorie cut from my 2900 maintenance, what manner of carb refeed day is advised?

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## kelkel

My (little) brain hurts reading this stuff. Don't know how you guys do this.

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## IronClydes

> My (little) brain hurts reading this stuff. Don't know how you guys do this.


I wish I didn't have to, my midsection and current body fat % demands it. This is something I have definitely never tried and, being that I've never seen my abs, it may be what is needed. One way to find out...

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## MR-FQ320

> My (little) brain hurts reading this stuff. Don't know how you guys do this.


Unfortunately mate, we are not as genetically gifted as you.

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## kelkel

> Unfortunately mate, we are not as genetically gifted as you.


Never under-estimate yourself. My statement was actually a back-handed compliment. It is truly impressive how some of you guys can manipulate these things so effectively.

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## MR-FQ320

> Never under-estimate yourself. My statement was actually a back-handed compliment. It is truly impressive how some of you guys can manipulate these things so effectively.


Ahh, I guess we are all envious of the next guy..

For anyone else reading this, your body really can do magic with food when it's fed in the right quantities and macros ! I don't ever see the need for T3 again ! It drains muscles and makes you look flat, who the hell wants that ? Too much emphasis on drugs sometimes. Yeah it's hard, but with time, education and patience results come. It might have taken me years, I may have learnt the hard way, idk, but it's made me who I am and what I know today. Rant over. Thank you and good night and God bless. Lol

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## NACH3

> Hey Nach, you said you could gain a lot of lean mass doing a cut like this? That seems hard to believe! How can you make lean gains in such a deficit? Simply because I'm eating a lot more as result of the additional calories afforded to me from doing daily cardio?
> 
> 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


T, I didn't say a lot of mass I said LBM which is different but better(quality of gains) if you carb cycle like MIKE is saying it's possible but hard... Remember I also talked about using Primo... if you go back and read our PMs I said primo is a great compound for building LBM on a calorie reduced diet! Great compound... But as many have mentioned carb cycling seems to be the way for me as well 

But sure I've been bulking this whole time but eating clean which in return(+ gear  :Smilie: ) I've been able to gain roughly 20lbs but have dropped about 2-3% in that time(I didn't think it would go thst way but diet is the biggest role player!

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## kelkel

> For anyone else reading this, your body really can do magic with food when it's fed in the right quantities and macros ! _Too much emphasis on drugs sometimes_. Yeah it's hard, but with time, education and patience results come. It might have taken me years, I may have learnt the hard way, idk, but it's made me who I am and what I know today. Rant over. Thank you and good night and God bless. Lol


Great statement MR-FQ!

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## IronClydes

> T, I didn't say a lot of mass I said LBM which is different but better(quality of gains) if you carb cycle like MIKE is saying it's possible but hard... Remember I also talked about using Primo... if you go back and read our PMs I said primo is a great compound for building LBM on a calorie reduced diet! Great compound... But as many have mentioned carb cycling seems to be the way for me as well 
> 
> But sure I've been bulking this whole time but eating clean which in return(+ gear ) I've been able to gain roughly 20lbs but have dropped about 2-3% in that time(I didn't think it would go thst way but diet is the biggest role player!


Sorry, Nach, I must be missing something...I don't see any reference to primo in my messages. I have never heard of it. Would you mind re-hashing it? 

Thanks again for your help!

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## IronClydes

> Ahh, I guess we are all envious of the next guy..
> 
> For anyone else reading this, your body really can do magic with food when it's fed in the right quantities and macros ! I don't ever see the need for T3 again ! It drains muscles and makes you look flat, who the hell wants that ? Too much emphasis on drugs sometimes. Yeah it's hard, but with time, education and patience results come. It might have taken me years, I may have learnt the hard way, idk, but it's made me who I am and what I know today. Rant over. Thank you and good night and God bless. Lol


Thanks for your help MR FQ. I haven't looked into T3 yet, not sure what it is. Still learning and building upon the blast and cruise cycles as this is only my second blast. I look forward to adding in other AAS that will help with my goals down the road, but I have been advised to make best of the blasts alone for some time first.

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## IronClydes

> Never under-estimate yourself. My statement was actually a back-handed compliment. It is truly impressive how some of you guys can manipulate these things so effectively.


Thanks Kel, I understood your meaning. Would certainly be nice to not need to be so strict with my diets and still make lean gains though! I have always been an Endomorph...still working on that whole crossover to mesomorph that I hear so much about lol

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## IronClydes

> For me, at 226 and about 15-16% body fat, doing a 1000 calorie cut from my 2900 maintenance, what manner of carb refeed day is advised?
> 
> 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


Anyone have any advice on this refeed day option in my diet?

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## IronClydes

> ^^^ this is not easy but if your diet is dialed in its a great way to put on a lot of mass while dropping bf! This is what I've been able to do this cycle... I primed down to 175 at 12ish Bf now I'm probly 10 but 20lbs heavier(194-196 atm 194.6 Yhis am b4 anything)... You just have to be very dedicated and don't expect everything to happen over night - it's taken me about a yr of eating right to finally start seeing what I'd like(needs to be better but that's why I'm here too)!
> 
> T, I didn't say a lot of mass I said LBM which is different but better(quality of gains) if you carb cycle like MIKE is saying it's possible but hard... Remember I also talked about using Primo... if you go back and read our PMs I said primo is a great compound for building LBM on a calorie reduced diet! Great compound... But as many have mentioned carb cycling seems to be the way for me as well 
> 
> But sure I've been bulking this whole time but eating clean which in return(+ gear ) I've been able to gain roughly 20lbs but have dropped about 2-3% in that time(I didn't think it would go thst way but diet is the biggest role player!


I look forward to finding this diet vs gains sweet spot.  :Smilie:

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## GirlyGymRat

> Thanks for your help MR FQ. I haven't looked into T3 yet, not sure what it is. Still learning and building upon the blast and cruise cycles as this is only my second blast. I look forward to adding in other AAS that will help with my goals down the road, but I have been advised to make best of the blasts alone for some time first.


T3 info. 
http://forums.steroid.com/supplement...how-works.html

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## IronClydes

> T3 info. http://forums.steroid.com/supplement...how-works.html


GGR,

Thank you, I just read the entire article. It would seem I am at the perfect time to consider starting it. I started my long ester blast just over 3 weeks ago. 

Worth a try then? It mentioned it's cheap. That's good. Interestingly, however, my body always runs hot already. Im always sweating and needing air cooler than my wife....albeit she's from Florida. Lol 

Thoughts?

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## GirlyGymRat

> GGR, Thank you, I just read the entire article. It would seem I am at the perfect time to consider starting it. I started my long ester blast just over 3 weeks ago. Worth a try then? It mentioned it's cheap. That's good. Interestingly, however, my body always runs hot already. Im always sweating and needing air cooler than my wife....albeit she's from Florida. Lol Thoughts? 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


Solid diet and training will go along way. There are other options that don't tinker with thyroid. ECA comes to mind. U may not like running warmer. I think I ran my cycle when it wasn't summer.

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## IronClydes

> Solid diet and training will go along way. There are other options that don't tinker with thyroid. ECA comes to mind. U may not like running warmer. I think I ran my cycle when it wasn't summer.


Forgive my ignorance, but ECA is?

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## RaginCajun

> Forgive my ignorance, but ECA is? 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


 Ephedrine Caffeine and Aspirin

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## MR-FQ320

Ephedrine Caffeine Aspirin. Commonly known as T5. Quite an effective stimulant. 

Don't use T3 bro, it will mess with your body composition, numbers, weights and macros, there's no need to speed up your metabolism like that.

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## IronClydes

> Ephedrine Caffeine Aspirin. Commonly known as T5. Quite an effective stimulant. Don't use T3 bro, it will mess with your body composition, numbers, weights and macros, there's no need to speed up your metabolism like that.


Okay thanks. So, can this be found as a mix or do I get separately? 

Currently trying Austinites Fat Loss Stack: EGCg, chromium picolinate, and synephrine. Just finished 3 weeks on that without much result yet.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

> Ephedrine Caffeine and Aspirin


Thanks RC. Nice to see you on here.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

> I start my cut usually around 210 215lba...i eat about 150gm of carbs and once a week refeed with about 600gm of carbs...when i get further into the diet i introduce the carb cycling and will do 100, 150, 200 and still one day of re-feed...my fat lose calories are about 2200cal per day...this works for me and has for a long time, but now that i am gettin golder i fid it harder to make progress at these numbers...


Hey Mike,

I like this split too, especially the carb refeed day lol. 

What's your opinion MR FQ?

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

Personally I wouldn't do a 600g carb Refeed, I'd look at 2x300g, but that's just my show prep trial haha.

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## bigsiv

Great thread guys I'm glued!

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## IronClydes

Hey guys, thanks again for all your help.

I just finished the fourth day of the carb cycling. The first three days were the low-carb days, today was the first "high carb" day. Ironically, that's still only half of my usual Carb intake.

My blast comes into full effect this week due to the long ester. That should help the cuts while maintaining the muscle. 

I took a front and back pic today. Please look them over and give me your opinions on weak spots and recommended exercises for addressing them. 

I'll update pics in this thread as the results of the cut take effect and as I address the discussed weak spots. 

Thanks!

Attachment 156841

It only lets me attach one at a time. I'll post back in next reply.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

Back side 

Attachment 156842

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

Yeah, you have good size, quads are good, back is thick with shape, can't see chest for hair lol. You are in the right path. Time and patience friend

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## IronClydes

> Yeah, you have good size, quads are good, back is thick with shape, can't see chest for hair lol. You are in the right path. Time and patience friend


Haha sorry about that. Wife agrees I should shave the chest. Should have an updated photo on that soon.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## GirlyGymRat

> Haha sorry about that. Wife agrees I should shave the chest. Should have an updated photo on that soon. 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


I agree with the wife! Really no one can see the hard work!

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## GirlyGymRat

> Okay thanks. So, can this be found as a mix or do I get separately? Currently trying Austinites Fat Loss Stack: EGCg, chromium picolinate, and synephrine. Just finished 3 weeks on that without much result yet. 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


 I would like members thoughts on how they get ECA ingredients. Coffee? And aspirin? How much. Ephedrine is controlled substance in U.S. Would like to know because I have never tried this stack and based on FQ response, maybe I should try this too. Btw. The other stack did nothing for me  :Frown:

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## MR-FQ320

GGR, eca seems to be called t5 in the UK, I just get it from a bloke called " sorted Dave", ephedrine is legal and you don't need a prescription for it,

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## RaginCajun

> I would like members thoughts on how they get ECA ingredients. Coffee? And aspirin? How much. Ephedrine is controlled substance in U.S. Would like to know because I have never tried this stack and based on FQ response, maybe I should try this too. Btw. The other stack did nothing for me


For my asthma, there was an OTC drug called Bronkaid,pretty sure it had ephedrine in it

----------


## NACH3

> Sorry, Nach, I must be missing something...I don't see any reference to primo in my messages. I have never heard of it. Would you mind re-hashing it? 
> 
> Thanks again for your help!


Primobolan is a DHT(highly anabolic not androgenic ) and its used by women, and women in contest prep too... It's great on cuts as you can really add some LBM in while in a calorie restricted diet! I've used it twice when I used to cut and my diet wasn't anywhere near what it is now(and I would love to improve upon it) and was still able to gain muscle(LBM - quality gains) in a reduced calorie diet - note this was before I ever carb cycled and by learning how to do that(am trying to learn show prep moreso) it's done wonders... 

I think in a 1000 cal reduced diet(which you say is net right) so what your burning off your re-eating? I'm just trying to get what your doing? If thsts the case I think you'll get more outta carb cycling then basically eating at maintainance though your burning it off I always stayed under whatever I was doing restriction wise?! It's up to you and I know once you find your way w/this you will be g2g! This is the tricky part but the most rewarding by far. 

GL and your well on your way...

----------


## IronClydes

> Primobolan is a DHT(highly anabolic not androgenic) and its used by women, and women in contest prep too... It's great on cuts as you can really add some LBM in while in a calorie restricted diet! I've used it twice when I used to cut and my diet wasn't anywhere near what it is now(and I would love to improve upon it) and was still able to gain muscle(LBM - quality gains) in a reduced calorie diet - note this was before I ever carb cycled and by learning how to do that(am trying to learn show prep moreso) it's done wonders... I think in a 1000 cal reduced diet(which you say is net right) so what your burning off your re-eating? I'm just trying to get what your doing? If thsts the case I think you'll get more outta carb cycling then basically eating at maintainance though your burning it off I always stayed under whatever I was doing restriction wise?! It's up to you and I know once you find your way w/this you will be g2g! This is the tricky part but the most rewarding by far. GL and your well on your way...


Thanks Nach. I rarely earn more than 500 calories in exercise, so on a 1900 calorie diet I can usually eat 2400 due to earning another 500 from working out. I have always down my calories and
Macros as a net figure. It is only on off days this is one and the same. Is that wrong when working cutting and/or carb cycling? Not sure I understand how that would work. Not going by net on a workout day would be equal to a 1500 calorie cut....

Primo sounds pretty impressive.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## NACH3

> Thanks Nach. I rarely earn more than 500 calories in exercise, so on a 1900 calorie diet I can usually eat 2400 due to earning another 500 from working out. I have always down my calories and
> Macros as a net figure. It is only on off days this is one and the same. Is that wrong when working cutting and/or carb cycling? Not sure I understand how that would work. Not going by net on a workout day would be equal to a 1500 calorie cut....
> 
> Primo sounds pretty impressive.
> 
> 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


It's a good compound but needs to be run for a lengthy period of time (14-16wks) at high doses but it's very effective(very faked too)...

I'm not sure about your net cals and eating more if my maintainance was say 2000 and I was cutting on 1500 I would make sure that I did not consume more than 1500 cals(now if you burned say 350 than I still would only eat that 350 and be at 1500 for the day not 2000 b/c I earned it... It just doesn't make sense to me tbh... Now I'm not saying that you can't eat what you burned but not at the result of eating at maintainance(my whole thought process is not going over that 1500cal as I'm in a 500c deficet to begin w/and that's what I want to end with... 

Another reason I don't like those diets anymore as my body responds better to carb cycling(it took me a a good hard yr to finally figure this out but I'm theres akways room for improvement imo! With anything!

Check out the steroid profiles about Primo.... Maybe one day you can stack it...

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## IronClydes

> It's a good compound but needs to be run for a lengthy period of time (14-16wks) at high doses but it's very effective(very faked too)... I'm not sure about your net cals and eating more if my maintainance was say 2000 and I was cutting on 1500 I would make sure that I did not consume more than 1500 cals(now if you burned say 350 than I still would only eat that 350 and be at 1500 for the day not 2000 b/c I earned it... It just doesn't make sense to me tbh... Now I'm not saying that you can't eat what you burned but not at the result of eating at maintainance(my whole thought process is not going over that 1500cal as I'm in a 500c deficet to begin w/and that's what I want to end with... Another reason I don't like those diets anymore as my body responds better to carb cycling(it took me a a good hard yr to finally figure this out but I'm theres akways room for improvement imo! With anything! Check out the steroid profiles about Primo.... Maybe one day you can stack it...


Thanks Nach.

I didn't mean it that way. I only eat what I burn so that my net total still arrives at the reduced calorie goal for cutting. 

What are your thoughts on Marcus's saying not to cut at all and to go from maintenance slow and steady?

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## NACH3

> Thanks Nach.
> 
> I didn't mean it that way. I only eat what I burn so that my net total still arrives at the reduced calorie goal for cutting. 
> 
> What are your thoughts on Marcus's saying not to cut at all and to go from maintenance slow and steady?
> 
> 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


Ok I was wondering what you meant by eating below but getting at 2900 cals but your were shooting for 1900'... Like I said b4 once your dialed in you will see the results and your body composition start to change - once that starts your well on your way to getting in top of this whole thing(diet can be very tricky)... Sliw snd steady always wins the race!

I think it's a very smart approach as I said im a fan of carb cycling... It's hard to maintain low bf and build muscle but it sure is possible w/the right diet and it's worked for many many people so I think his thread he posted speaks for itself...

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## MR-FQ320

^^^^^ agreed, just start carb cycling / diet. 

Plan - do - check - act. Repeat.

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## NACH3

> ^^^^^ agreed, just start carb cycling / diet. 
> 
> Plan - do - check - act. Repeat.


X2... In his thread he pulled up for you, it explains how he uses his glycogen stores then shocks his body w/the refeed(high day) as it tricks your body into thinking it's not being depleted! 

Just stuck to it and don't get frustrated as the diet part can be very tricky, but magical! Try not to change things so often as your body won't get used to what your doing and it'll constantly be starting over from the beginning every time...

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## IronClydes

Thanks Guys. So, despite Marcus's insistence that I not cut calories but instead carb cycle at maintenance and increase cardio if needed, you think I should still stick with the 1000 cal cut and carb cycling 100 to 200 with no refeed day? Marcus's preferred approach is to preserve muscle going slow and steady at maintenance and carb cycling.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

Right I have just read the first page again, you were asking advice on how to lose 4% bf as so far you hadn't succeeded because you were eating at maintenance. We came up with a plan to get you to lose this fat asap because you were on cycle and time was running out. 

Have you started yet ? 

Listen, Marcus' carb cycling thread opened new horizons for me, i started on his less 40% plus 15%, fat loss plateuxed, I modified macros, calories, high/low days, played about with the numbers, trialled things, no two weeks are the same - if I feel like I need a refeed then I will refeed, the more i do it, the easier the numbers are to manipulate, that's why I said don't bother with t3, it screws the numbers and you can't work out exactly what you need. 

We have both shown you the door to the solution to your problem, both will work, to different degrees, it depends on you, your goals, and how YOU work it, make a start and run with it.

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## NACH3

> Thanks Guys. So, despite Marcus's insistence that I not cut calories but instead carb cycle at maintenance and increase cardio if needed, you think I should still stick with the 1000 cal cut and carb cycling 100 to 200 with no refeed day? Marcus's preferred approach is to preserve muscle going slow and steady at maintenance and carb cycling.
> 
> 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


It's very basic T and your overthinking this... Imo I wouldn't go on a cut b/c once your diet is dialed in you'll be gaining muscle while dropping bf... That's the whole concept behind carb cycling so we don't lose the new found muscle tissue.... You'll just have to find your happy medium and adjust your cals & cardio(since your trying to drop bf) according to your goals but changing things around too much will not enable your body to adjust the way you want it to! 

It's been a proven method for many people(BBers) so I don't see why your ?ing his advice! I've heeded everything he Kel AG Bio etc etc ever brought up to me and it's worked greatly! And I was in the same boat as you!  :Wink:

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## MR-FQ320

Furthermore, the basic concept to carb cycling is this :- deplete glycogen stores ( empty muscles) through carb reduction, burn fat via cardio / further carb reduction / stimulants, fill glycogen stores back up ( fill up muscles ). Repeat. 

Burn fat - preserve ( if conditions allow and everything is in order you can build ) muscle. 


Results are person dependant, my preference are different to Marcus', as is my time frame, drugs , stimulants, Tdee, metabolism, etc etc.

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## NACH3

> Furthermore, the basic concept to carb cycling is this :- deplete glycogen stores ( empty muscles) through carb reduction, burn fat via cardio / further carb reduction / stimulants, fill glycogen stores back up ( fill up muscles ). Repeat. 
> 
> Burn fat - preserve ( if conditions allow and everything is in order you can build ) muscle. 
> 
> 
> Results are person dependant, my preference are different to Marcus', as is my time frame, drugs , stimulants, Tdee, metabolism, etc etc.


You may have a slightly different approach but it's all the same concept... Which I believe you are agreeing too!

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## MR-FQ320

> You may have a slightly different approach but it's all the same concept... Which I believe you are agreeing too!


 Yes I am in agreement, I'm just saying the execution can be tailored to personal exact requirements.

The above two / three posts / rants were directed at T, I'm short on patience today lol

----------


## IronClydes

> Right I have just read the first page again, you were asking advice on how to lose 4% bf as so far you hadn't succeeded because you were eating at maintenance. We came up with a plan to get you to lose this fat asap because you were on cycle and time was running out. 
> 
> Have you started yet ? 
> 
> Listen, Marcus' carb cycling thread opened new horizons for me, i started on his less 40% plus 15%, fat loss plateuxed, I modified macros, calories, high/low days, played about with the numbers, trialled things, no two weeks are the same - if I feel like I need a refeed then I will refeed, the more i do it, the easier the numbers are to manipulate, that's why I said don't bother with t3, it screws the numbers and you can't work out exactly what you need. 
> 
> We have both shown you the door to the solution to your problem, both will work, to different degrees, it depends on you, your goals, and how YOU work it, make a start and run with it.


Yes, I am on Day 6 of the diet. I started as soon as you guys directed me....I am taking everything seriously and following through. If you have myfitnesspal I am GazelleOfficer on there. You can see how I am doing with the diet so far. I track everything. 

I was only making sure nothing is overlooked or misinterpreted as I continue into this carb cycling with 1000 calorie cut.  :Smilie:

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## MR-FQ320

> Yes, I am on Day 6 of the diet. I started as soon as you guys directed me....I am taking everything seriously and following through. If you have myfitnesspal I am GazelleOfficer on there. You can see how I am doing with the diet so far. I track everything. I was only making sure nothing is overlooked or misinterpreted as I continue into this carb cycling with 1000 calorie cut.


Good stuff, I have sent a friend request :-) 

Have you had a high day yet ?

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## IronClydes

> It's very basic T and your overthinking this... Imo I wouldn't go on a cut b/c once your diet is dialed in you'll be gaining muscle while dropping bf... That's the whole concept behind carb cycling so we don't lose the new found muscle tissue.... You'll just have to find your happy medium and adjust your cals & cardio(since your trying to drop bf) according to your goals but changing things around too much will not enable your body to adjust the way you want it to! 
> 
> It's been a proven method for many people(BBers) so I don't see why your ?ing his advice! I've heeded everything he Kel AG Bio etc etc ever brought up to me and it's worked greatly! And I was in the same boat as you!


Thanks Nach. I know Marcus knows his shit and is King of the stuff, but when I get drastically different pieces of advice I try to understand the why's of it. I'm not yoyo-ing at all, I am staying consistent with my diet, and nearly a week into the 1000 calorie cut....albeit I am growing nervous of muscle loss, especially after reading Marcus' thread about never going below maintenance...lol

I will keep to the cut at least short term to be able to measure the results for future reference and comparison. 

As of today I am down to 224.5, about a 1-1.5 pound loss since starting....hard to really know for sure as water weight moves around so much, but I always weigh first thing in the a.m.

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## IronClydes

> Good stuff, I have sent a friend request :-) 
> 
> Have you had a high day yet ?


Just accepted! 

My first 3 days were low carb 100-150 (roughly 100 net), this is the 3rd day of 3 days at 200 carb. I am fluctuating slightly above, but not horribly. Dialing it down. Net calories are staying as directed.

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## MR-FQ320

^^^^ right ok, I'm getting it- slowly lol. When is your workout ? Before meal 3 ? When is cardio ? Are you on cycle or not ?

3 low, 3 high ? 

I can't see pie charts, or weekly totals. Is it set to fully open ?

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## IronClydes

> ^^^^ right ok, I'm getting it- slowly lol. When is your workout ? Before meal 3 ? When is cardio ? Are you on cycle or not ?
> 
> 3 low, 3 high ? 
> 
> I can't see pie charts, or weekly totals. Is it set to fully open ?


Just checked it out and the only options under Privacy are to everyone, to friends, etc. I have set it to everyone. I can see all your foods, no pie charts, but still shows caloric and macro breakdowns. 

On the 3 high and 4 low you directed. I started this first week on 3 low to time the high days in conjuction with my major lift days. 

I work out in the a.m. first thing, fasted with pre workout and leucine and creatine, whey iso and rice milk and creatine post. about an hour later is my highest carb meal of brown rice, chicken, and olive oil.

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## IronClydes

Next 4 days will be my low days. 

Just to make sure I am not confused, no refeed days for now, correct?

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## IronClydes

My workouts should also show in myfitnesspal. The calories are calculated from my heart rate monitor while working out, so they are fairly accurate. 

If you want to see my workouts, they are all recorded on BodySpace and in the Marcus's Diary forum. All HIT format, one muscle a day, 30-65 minutes weights plus, if able, another 20-30 cardio and abs.

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## NACH3

> Thanks Nach. I know Marcus knows his shit and is King of the stuff, but when I get drastically different pieces of advice I try to understand the why's of it. I'm not yoyo-ing at all, I am staying consistent with my diet, and nearly a week into the 1000 calorie cut....albeit I am growing nervous of muscle loss, especially after reading Marcus' thread about never going below maintenance...lol
> 
> I will keep to the cut at least short term to be able to measure the results for future reference and comparison. 
> 
> As of today I am down to 224.5, about a 1-1.5 pound loss since starting....hard to really know for sure as water weight moves around so much, but I always weigh first thing in the a.m.


Good buddy just do you and stick to it like you are... I wasn't saying yiu were yoyo-ing around at all T... I just want to see you be as successful as you possibly can!  :Wink:

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## IronClydes

> Good buddy just do you and stick to it like you are... I wasn't saying yiu were yoyo-ing around at all T... I just want to see you be as successful as you possibly can!


Thanks Nach. Appreciate your help here and there  :Smilie:

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## MR-FQ320

> Next 4 days will be my low days. Just to make sure I am not confused, no refeed days for now, correct?


Your 3 x 200g ARE the refeed days remember. 

Let's look at your body weight and if your bf% has changed after two full weeks.

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## NACH3

> Thanks Nach. Appreciate your help here and there


I think FQ has it covered!

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## IronClydes

> ^^^^ right ok, I'm getting it- slowly lol. When is your workout ? Before meal 3 ? When is cardio ? Are you on cycle or not ? 3 low, 3 high ? I can't see pie charts, or weekly totals. Is it set to fully open ?


Forgot to answer, I am in my 4th week of a 14 week blast (test cyp cycle). 

Cardio is usually immediately following weight session; however, on weekends I try to separate and do cardio later in evening.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

> Your 3 x 200g ARE the refeed days remember. Let's look at your body weight and if your bf% has changed after two full weeks.


I thought that was how I was to interpret it, just had to make sure. I have heard some do 100, 150, 200, repeat, then 600 refeed. I think MikeXXL was one. 

One more day left of the first week. Following the second week's completion I will repost updated pics (without the animal on my chest) and body weight.

Thanks again guys!

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

^^^^ ok Tduff, hopefully words are with me a little better today and I can explain more clearly and you the benefit of my experience. 

Because you are on cycle, fat loss and muscle growth can and should be accelerated during carb cycling, the results are only limited by the numbers involved, I believe that 4*100 low and 3* 200 high could be more suitable for somebody who is not on cycle or on TRT dosages. Just my thoughts, let's get you in the groove and see what's happening. I just don't want to waste any time while on cycle.

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## IronClydes

> ^^^^ ok Tduff, hopefully words are with me a little better today and I can explain more clearly and you the benefit of my experience. Because you are on cycle, fat loss and muscle growth can and should be accelerated during carb cycling, the results are only limited by the numbers involved, I believe that 4*100 low and 3* 200 high could be more suitable for somebody who is not on cycle or on TRT dosages. Just my thoughts, let's get you in the groove and see what's happening. I just don't want to waste any time while on cycle.


Okay, and which way are you leaning for on cycle?

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

> Okay, and which way are you leaning for on cycle? 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


 Depends on goal mate, bulk or cut ?

Oh and I think Mike XXL carb up protocol was a pre contest final week too

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## IronClydes

> Depends on goal mate, bulk or cut ? Oh and I think Mike XXL carb up protocol was a pre contest final week too


Cut, of course. But with possibly on lean gains, if it can be done.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

> Cut, of course. But with possibly on lean gains, if it can be done. 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


 IMO, that will come down to workouts and volume, personally, I added the same body part in the morning, doing the compound movement, I am sure I have added size on - if not then defo shape, measurements later today. Maybe we could look at your am cardio and switch it to a weighted circuit, or like I do ,heavy compound In the morning, isolation in the evening? Bigger muscles move more weight more often.

Remind me of your current workouts and splits please.

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## IronClydes

Day 1 HIT Chest
Day 2 HIT Back
Day 3 HIT Shoulders 
Day 4 HIT Legs
Day 5 HIT Arms
Rest
Rest

Cardio 4-5 days 20-45 min 
Abs EOD

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

Hey MR FQ,

Getting a little too concerned about muscle loss. It takes me EXTREMELY long to put any muscle on. I concerned it might be rash to jump so low. 

I am finishing day 8, 1000 calories cut each day, so already 8000 calories short of maintenance. 

I considering returning to a maintenance level but carb cycling aggressively and doing cardio daily. Do you think I am overly concerned and need to chill out?

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

----------


## MR-FQ320

> Hey MR FQ, Getting a little too concerned about muscle loss. It takes me EXTREMELY long to put any muscle on. I concerned it might be rash to jump so low. I am finishing day 8, 1000 calories cut each day, so already 8000 calories short of maintenance. I considering returning to a maintenance level but carb cycling aggressively and doing cardio daily. Do you think I am overly concerned and need to chill out? 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


Bro, you just can't lose muscle like that overnight, it's biologically impossible, think of your muscles as balloons, the carbs are the air inflating the size of the muscle, now then , through carb reduction we are slowly deflating the muscle and drawing on fat reserved for energy, the refeed days refill the ballon back up to its original size less the fat already burnt. If they have not reached original size we just add in more carbs on high days. Remember that fat is in the muscles too, so we will be getting rid of this too, so a smaller look is to be expected. We can top up the muscles with glycogen / carbs when we want if the refeed days were not enough. So have you lost weight on the scales ? Have you lost fat ?

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## MR-FQ320

I am concerned over some of your food choices too, a lot of nuts and cream for coffee ? Is the macro split 40:40:20 on all days ? 

Can we add in another workout on a rest day ? An all over body pump ?

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## IronClydes

> Bro, you just can't lose muscle like that overnight, it's biologically impossible, think of your muscles as balloons, the carbs are the air inflating the size of the muscle, now then , through carb reduction we are slowly deflating the muscle and drawing on fat reserved for energy, the refeed days refill the ballon back up to its original size less the fat already burnt. If they have not reached original size we just add in more carbs on high days. Remember that fat is in the muscles too, so we will be getting rid of this too, so a smaller look is to be expected. We can top up the muscles with glycogen / carbs when we want if the refeed days were not enough. So have you lost weight on the scales ? Have you lost fat ?


Scale was at 225 this morning. Hard to say what that means though. Only a 1 pound difference since starting....then there's water fluctuation daily. I keep hearing that you can't avoid muscle loss with severe cuts in calories. Is this an incorrect understaffing?

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

> I am concerned over some of your food choices too, a lot of nuts and cream for coffee ? Is the macro split 40:40:20 on all days ? Can we add in another workout on a rest day ? An all over body pump ?


The coffee creamer is only 10 cal a tablespoon. It's nondairy powder. Nuts are a weakness, but they make the calories total daily and have minimal carbs. I'm up for a to body pump or even an extra day devoted to weak spots. The macro split is not definitive. The calorie cap is. I like more fats to replace the lost carb calories.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

> Scale was at 225 this morning. Hard to say what that means though. Only a 1 pound difference since starting....then there's water fluctuation daily. I keep hearing that you can't avoid muscle loss with severe cuts in calories. Is this an incorrect understaffing? 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


 You have not lost any previously built muscle fibre / tissue. Fat is stored in muscles too don't forget, we will be expelling this.

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## IronClydes

> You have not lost any previously built muscle fibre / tissue. Fat is stored in muscles too don't forget, we will be expelling this.


I understand your meaning. How far can this be taken before I risk muscle loss? It's vague to me as I hear notables such as KelKel and Marcus300 state going below maintenance risks muscle loss. I hope you understand my concern as I hear this.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

> The coffee creamer is only 10 cal a tablespoon. It's nondairy powder. Nuts are a weakness, but they make the calories total daily and have minimal carbs. I'm up for a to body pump or even an extra day devoted to weak spots. The macro split is not definitive. The calorie cap is. I like more fats to replace the lost carb calories. 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


Looking through the last weeks diary , mon - Weds was on point, thurs fri sat was about 500 over plan. But 500 less than a refeed (?) We've not quite nailed this yet. Just use the nuts to top fats up to 60g a day not level out the missing carbs.

----------


## IronClydes

> Looking through the last weeks diary , mon - Weds was on point, thurs fri sat was about 500 over plan. But 500 less than a refeed (?) We've not quite nailed this yet. Just use the nuts to top fats up to 60g a day not level out the missing carbs.


I agree I haven't nailed it. A few confusions:

1) when I earn more calories via exercise, where can I use those newly available calories? Can any be allotted to carbs (myfitnesspal automatically increases all macros in accordance with earned calories) or are they strictly at the 100 and 200 marks daily regardless?

2) see below pics for my low and hi calorie macro splits as they apply to scheduled days. I made this following your direction. I find it hard to keep my fats this low....May need to remove almonds from planned meals and minimize peanut butter on my Ezekiel bread.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

Attachment 156913

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

----------


## IronClydes

Attachment 156914

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

----------


## IronClydes

> Looking through the last weeks diary , mon - Weds was on point, thurs fri sat was about 500 over plan. But 500 less than a refeed (?) We've not quite nailed this yet. Just use the nuts to top fats up to 60g a day not level out the missing carbs.


Sunday was net of 170 over
Monday was net of 67 over
Tuesday was net of 8 under
Wednesday was net of 32 over
Thursday was net of 135 over
Friday was net of 164 under
Saturday was net of 188 over

Sunday to Tuesday were 1850 cal goals (100 carb).
Wednesday to Friday were 2250 cal goals (200 carb).
Saturday was back to 1850...over 188.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

> Sunday was net of 170 over Monday was net of 67 over Tuesday was net of 8 under Wednesday was net of 32 over Thursday was net of 135 over Friday was net of 164 under Saturday was net of 188 over Sunday to Tuesday were 1850 cal goals (100 carb). Wednesday to Friday were 2250 cal goals (200 carb). Saturday was back to 1850...over 188. 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


I'm still getting this right. Fats are difficult to keep low as I want to eat something other than just protein packed foods in place of the missing carb calories. Carbs used to make up 40% of my diet. They now only average 15% of a much smaller caloric diet. Fats also averaged over 100 daily, keeping them lower is hard as I created a habit towards many healthy fats.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

Ok so, when you have earned extra calorie intake from cardio, I personally prefer to take them in the macro split, so 50p/25c/25f on low days and 40/40:20 on high days, so effectively the weight loss is coming from cardio. 

This is MFP shortfall in planning and tracking and where a bit of black art comes in. 

The macros look good, remind yourself of your bodies requirements, 1-1.5 g / lb of protein and 0.3-0.4g / lb of fat, make the rest up with carbs. Carbs to be after workouts primarily

I say we make inroads into fat loss first, then we can readjust once we've lost a few lbs of fat. Remember : you can't lose muscle overnight, it's only glycogen stores, if it is worrying you then have a refeed day, say 300g carbs, but work all the muscles ! Just keep the faith brother. It takes time and patience, listen to your body, monitor how it reacts to how you feed it, learn how the carbs effect you, then you can predict and manipulate the food quantities to how you you want react. Your doing a good job of a difficult concept to master.

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## MR-FQ320

Oh and try and add in more vegetables, fills out the plate and hardly count towards macros

----------


## marcus300

Personally I wouldn't do anything drastic like dropping cals to harsh which will have a negative effect on your muscle tissue, ive seen it time and time again its muscle tissue suicide and imho these calorie restricted diets what many go on are disaster for retaining muscle tissue but great at cutting fat, now for me muscle tissue maintenance is the number one priority even in a cut or a bulk. Putting muscle tissue on is so fuking hard there is no way in hell I will waste it away with some of these stupid calorie restricted diets what someone posts or copies out of books. Everyone is different and responds in different ways so the first thing you need to do is see how your body responds and learn from this to contrast a plan to suit your goals but the priority is muscle reservation no matter what your goal.

TDEE calculators are all over the internet so work out what yours comes in at and monitor yourself over the next 7-10 days if your not gaining or losing weight that's your sweet spot to work from, if things are moving in one direction or another change things up until you find your sweet spot of maintenance then work off that to suit your goals. First thing I would do is keep your cals the same but introduce a cardio regime what will put you in a deficit which will start the leaning process off while maintaining your tissue. Once you have come to a brick wall with your gains increase the cardio and slowly drop some of your cals, a carb cycling approach like ive shown you will do wonders IMHO and will also help to maintain your tissue which is key remember you don't want to lose all that weight and a load of muscle tissue which is very common that's why so many go around in circles of gaining and losing and never end up going any further forward because they are stuck or don't know how to cut properly, they just read out of book how you should cut but we are all different and that's why monitoring your response and how your body reacts is key.

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## IronClydes

> Ok so, when you have earned extra calorie intake from cardio, I personally prefer to take them in the macro split, so 50p/25c/25f on low days and 40/40:20 on high days, so effectively the weight loss is coming from cardio. This is MFP shortfall in planning and tracking and where a bit of black art comes in. The macros look good, remind yourself of your bodies requirements, 1-1.5 g / lb of protein and 0.3-0.4g / lb of fat, make the rest up with carbs. Carbs to be after workouts primarily I say we make inroads into fat loss first, then we can readjust once we've lost a few lbs of fat. Remember : you can't lose muscle overnight, it's only glycogen stores, if it is worrying you then have a refeed day, say 300g carbs, but work all the muscles ! Just keep the faith brother. It takes time and patience, listen to your body, monitor how it reacts to how you feed it, learn how the carbs effect you, then you can predict and manipulate the food quantities to how you you want react. Your doing a good job of a difficult concept to master.


Understood. Thanks for explaining. Thanks for having patience with my learning curve here.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

> Everyone is different and responds in different ways so the first thing you need to do is see how your body responds and learn from this to contrast a plan to suit your goals but the priority is muscle reservation no matter what your goal. 
> 
> First thing I would do is keep your cals the same but introduce a cardio regime what will put you in a deficit which will start the leaning process off while maintaining your tissue. 
> 
> Once you have come to a brick wall with your gains increase the cardio and slowly drop some of your cals, a carb cycling approach like ive shown you will do wonders IMHO and will also help to maintain your tissue 
> 
> remember you don't want to lose all that weight and a load of muscle tissue which is very common 
> 
> that's why monitoring your response and how your body reacts is key.


Thanks for taking the time to share your experience and knowledge, Marcus. That means a lot. 

It appears that when you use cardio to increase fat loss, you don't consider those burned calories earned for re-consumption? I'm assuming then that you find your maintenance accounting for the extra calories burned weight lifting. 

Following this, if you are cutting at maintenance, then he cardio actually puts you into a caloric deficit. For instance, if I ran 45 minutes I'd then be in about a 700 calorie deficit. 

So, what I am currently doing is similar to your approach. I start with a 1000 deficit, but then I earn about 300 calories weightlifting and 5-700 doing cardio. This increases my consumption to my maintenance level. Seems we are just approaching from different sides and serving at the same result. My calculated TDEE does not account for weight lifting calorie needs, it is just my baseline without exercise. 

The only difference is that I've jumped right into carb cycling with a cardio induced caloric deficit. Whereas you recommend doing carb cycling after the cardio induced deficit has ceased to produce results. 

Am I following this all correctly? If so, it appears I could already be following your recommendations, just calculated the steps differently.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

----------


## IronClydes

Hardest day of the diet was yesterday. I was getting crabby from low carbs and growing appetite. Green tea with Stevia helped a bit. 

Couldn't even earn extra calories from weights as the fire burn on my armpit was too fresh. Did a little biking though pulling kids on trailer. That earned me a frozen yogurt....wife and kids wanted to hit ice cream shop (Mother's Day treat).

Great session back at weights this morning. Healed good so far.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

----------


## IronClydes

Great workout this morning. Decided to sort pairing a smaller muscle with larger muscle days to give them twice weekly stimulation. Chest and biceps felt great this morning followed by an ab routine. 

Been working out fasted for past couple weeks and enjoy it so far. The pre-workout is much more intense on an empty stomach and pumps feel better. I add leucine to pre-workout to prevent muscle catabolism. I'm sure the fasted training will help with fat reduction as well....at least that's what I've read.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

----------


## IronClydes

Great day overall. After work I swung by the gym knocked out 30 minutes of jogging and did a little extra calf training... Despite the low carbs I'm actually feeling energetic. Actually getting better at controlling my macros now. Fats and carbs undercontrol protein super high

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

MR FQ,

You still there? 

Down 2.5 pounds now. Weighed in at 122.5 this morning. That was after hydrating.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

> MR FQ, You still there? Down 2.5 pounds now. Weighed in at 122.5 this morning. That was after hydrating. 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


122.5 ? Kg ? What ? You mean 222.5 lbs ? 

Is it fat loss ? How do u feel ? Have you had a refeed ? What about a cheat meal ?

----------


## IronClydes

> 122.5 ? Kg ? What ? You mean 222.5 lbs ? Is it fat loss ? How do u feel ? Have you had a refeed ? What about a cheat meal ?


Sorry, 222.5, yes.

No cheat meals or refeeds other than the 100/200 days as directed. 

Felt great yesterday. Feel pretty good today. Carb withdrawal affects me in evenings as my workouts are in morning, so that's where bulk of carbs are going.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

Have a cheat meal or refeed on 14 days. Start the process again. Are you happy with the high / low days ? Are you losing enough fat ? Have you kept muscle. I think it's a bonus to do both really outstanding. You can negate muscle loss on a cut and minimise fat accumulation on a bulk, if you manage to do both you've nailed it.
The more you do this the more you learn about how your body reacts, then the fun starts.

----------


## IronClydes

> Have a cheat meal or refeed on 14 days. Start the process again. Are you happy with the high / low days ? Are you losing enough fat ? Have you kept muscle. I think it's a bonus to do both really outstanding. You can negate muscle loss on a cut and minimise fat accumulation on a bulk, if you manage to do both you've nailed it. The more you do this the more you learn about how your body reacts, then the fun starts.


Okay, thanks. What are my guidelines for this cheat meal? Planning a date night Saturday with the wife, dinner at a pasta place sounds perfect. 

As far as the high/low days, it has been very hard to stay under 100. I stay fairly close, but haven't made the mark yet. 200 days are bearable. It's been a change for sure as my average was 350 daily before. Every meal had a minimum of 150g brown rice. On my 100 days, only one meal has rice, and it's only 100g as my post workout rice milk whey isolate shake accounts for most of the rest. 

Hard to know for sure if I've kept muscle...I want to say yes. I am noticing slight minor changes in better definition from possible fat loss. It would appear that the body weight is making relatively descent weight loss....the opposite of what I'm accustomed to on cycle haha.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

----------


## MR-FQ320

> Okay, thanks. What are my guidelines for this cheat meal? Planning a date night Saturday with the wife, dinner at a pasta place sounds perfect. As far as the high/low days, it has been very hard to stay under 100. I stay fairly close, but haven't made the mark yet. 200 days are bearable. It's been a change for sure as my average was 350 daily before. Every meal had a minimum of 150g brown rice. On my 100 days, only one meal has rice, and it's only 100g as my post workout rice milk whey isolate shake accounts for most of the rest. Hard to know for sure if I've kept muscle...I want to say yes. I am noticing slight minor changes in better definition from possible fat loss. It would appear that the body weight is making relatively descent weight loss....the opposite of what I'm accustomed to on cycle haha. 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


Cheat meal : date with wifey - perfect. Order what you want, starters mains desserts, no or little alcohol. 

The 100g is tough and it's something to aim for, I would be tempted to give you more slack on the 200g days. 

Eat cheat meal and reassess after next workout.

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## IronClydes

Okay, thanks. One other thing, sleep has been rough since starting. Stomach wakes me up in hunger. So, that is suffering slightly.

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

> Okay, thanks. One other thing, sleep has been rough since starting. Stomach wakes me up in hunger. So, that is suffering slightly. 222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


Yeah it gets to me too, either drink water, protein shake, or eat ! Listen to your body.

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## IronClydes

> Yeah it gets to me too, either drink water, protein shake, or eat ! Listen to your body.


Got it. Thanks MR FQ.

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

Going to weigh in again tomorrow and see what changes there have been. Will take some pics this weekend and post. Will trim/shave chest for critique.

----------


## MR-FQ320

How many cycles have you done previously ?

----------


## IronClydes

> How many cycles have you done previously ?


This is only my second blast ever. I am finishing my 6th week now. Test cyp 500 (250 E3.5D) + anastrozole EOD + 250 hcg E3.5D. Only difference from last blast is I'm using hcg and anastrozole. My mistake for the first was no AI

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

> This is only my second blast ever. I am finishing my 6th week now. Test cyp 500 (250 E3.5D) + anastrozole EOD + 250 hcg E3.5D. Only difference from last blast is I'm using hcg and anastrozole. My mistake for the first was no AI 222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


My first blast I felt amazing. I was gaining muscle and trimming up like I couldn't have imagined. Had I not been guided properly by Kel I would likely have never stopped and really screwed up. However, what I don't understand is, why don't I feel that way this time around? No crazy gains, and no crazy fat loss....despite eating a ton less this time around, for my second blast ever. I thought it'd be a great time to try cutting as I've never seen my abs. The blast already speeds up fat loss and preserves/grows muscle. However, despite losing about 3 pounds on average, I don't feel any different.

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

Unfortunately bro, you get used to it. I felt the same my second cycle, I was disappointed and thought I had bunk gear. The next time I felt like that again was when I was doing 1250mg of sust a week, hate to break it to ya, but you may have to increase your dose to double to feel like that again. If your not impressed with the results so far, u may want to bump up your dosages now for the rest of your cycle. Just my .03

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## IronClydes

> Unfortunately bro, you get used to it. I felt the same my second cycle, I was disappointed and thought I had bunk gear. The next time I felt like that again was when I was doing 1250mg of sust a week, hate to break it to ya, but you may have to increase your dose to double to feel like that again. If your not impressed with the results so far, u may want to bump up your dosages now for the rest of your cycle. Just my .03


I was considering that. I know the gear is quality as its all straight from the pharmacy. How much would you bump it? Up to 6-700?

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

> I was considering that. I know the gear is quality as its all straight from the pharmacy. How much would you bump it? Up to 6-700? 222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


Totally individual decision, if u really liked the feeling and you have enough to see you through the 12 weeks or whatever, I would certainly be going to 750pw if not double. It may sound a bit drastic, but once I hit 1250pw, it's my sweet spot everytime now. It's not like I have to keep on increasing dosages everytime I start a cycle.

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## IronClydes

> Unfortunately bro, you get used to it. I felt the same my second cycle, I was disappointed and thought I had bunk gear. The next time I felt like that again was when I was doing 1250mg of sust a week, hate to break it to ya, but you may have to increase your dose to double to feel like that again. If your not impressed with the results so far, u may want to bump up your dosages now for the rest of your cycle. Just my .03


So increase to 6-700 perhaps?

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

> Totally individual decision, if u really liked the feeling and you have enough to see you through the 12 weeks or whatever, I would certainly be going to 750pw if not double. It may sound a bit drastic, but once I hit 1250pw, it's my sweet spot everytime now. It's not like I have to keep on increasing dosages everytime I start a cycle.


Wow. Okay. I had thought 500 weekly was high lol

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

> Wow. Okay. I had thought 500 weekly was high lol 222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


Nah, 500 is a beginners starting point. Haven't you heard what the big guys take ?

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## IronClydes

> Nah, 500 is a beginners starting point. Haven't you heard what the big guys take ?


Okay. Today's my next biweekly injection. So, 350-375 a decent change? That's 700-750 weekly.

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

> Okay. Today's my next biweekly injection. So, 350-375 a decent change? That's 700-750 weekly. 222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


Go for it.

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## IronClydes

Awesome. Will start up at 700/week (1.75ml E3.5D) today after work.

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

Starting at 750 weekly yesterday. 

Up a pound this morning: 223.5. 

No visible changes. 

Refeed today

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

> Starting at 750 weekly yesterday. Up a pound this morning: 223.5. No visible changes. Refeed today 222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


Any recommendations for revising following today's refeed cheat meal? Could I have hindered my metabolism on this diet? Or how should I adjust to do better? 

Only a 1-2 pound loss of weight since start. No visible noticeable difference despite a 1000 calorie average cut and carb cycling 4x100 and 3x200.

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

The science behind the refeed is basically ; reset hormones and metabolism to base values. Have faith. Watch what happens. Report back.

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## MR-FQ320

Realistically though ; what are your goals and timeframe ?

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## IronClydes

> Realistically though ; what are your goals and timeframe ?


See some abs, cut the midsection girth. Then have that lean base established to build more muscle on from a maintenance diet.

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

Are you on TRT ?

----------


## IronClydes

> Are you on TRT ?


Yes 175/week when not blasting.

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

> Yes 175/week when not blasting. 222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


Oh, right, this may have changed the goalposts slightly then. 

My worry is ( and I suspect yours ) that you will not have reached any goal in any time. To get results in quick time you have to take things to the extreme. I can see you are a stickler for numbers ( macros), if it were me , I'd be about on point with grams of carbs etc, but not freaking exactly like you dude. I listen to my body a lot, I see how it responds to certain conditions, I like to play and experiment with what I put in and what effect this has. It's like a black art that's totally individual. I'm trying to help you out bro, I think you should take this cycle as a learning curve. Although if it were me on TRT, I would be even more gung ho, stay healthy, but make the dream a reality by whatever means necessary

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## IronClydes

> Oh, right, this may have changed the goalposts slightly then. My worry is ( and I suspect yours ) that you will not have reached any goal in any time. To get results in quick time you have to take things to the extreme. I can see you are a stickler for numbers ( macros), if it were me , I'd be about on point with grams of carbs etc, but not freaking exactly like you dude. I listen to my body a lot, I see how it responds to certain conditions, I like to play and experiment with what I put in and what effect this has. It's like a black art that's totally individual. I'm trying to help you out bro, I think you should take this cycle as a learning curve. Although if it were me on TRT, I would be even more gung ho, stay healthy, but make the dream a reality by whatever means necessary


More gung ho?....I'm going exactly as advised...you definitely have me confused now. Be exact but not freaking like me? Huh?

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

> More gung ho?....I'm going exactly as advised...you definitely have me confused now. Be exact but not freaking like me? Huh? 222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


Sorry dude, I'm rambling, I'm really tired today.

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## MR-FQ320

How did cheat meal go ?

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## MR-FQ320

Have your cheat meal. Sleep. Reassess

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## IronClydes

Lol I understand. Almost at our date location for the cheat meal: Cheesecake Factory!

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

Excellent! Huge pasta chicken dish and a cheesecake with 2 whiskeys

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

> Excellent! Huge pasta chicken dish and a cheesecake with 2 whiskeys 222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


I was insatiable. Still hungry now that I'm home lol

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

Cheesecake Factory (date night/cheat meal)

2 servings of scotch (DeWars)
Sourdough Bread
Farfalle pasta with chicken and roasted garlic dressing
Kahlua Cocoa Coffee Cheesecake

Total meal: 3,414 calories. More than my normal day in one meal of awesomeness.  :Smilie: 

Definitely overkill, but damn that was good! I did extra cardio and ate less otherwise.

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## RaginCajun

> Cheesecake Factory (date night/cheat meal) 2 servings of scotch (DeWars) Sourdough Bread Farfalle pasta with chicken and roasted garlic dressing Kahlua Cocoa Coffee Cheesecake Total meal: 3,414 calories. More than my normal day in one meal of awesomeness.  Definitely overkill, but damn that was good! I did extra cardio and ate less otherwise. 222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


Yummy!

Just think of it as fuel for your next lift! Or bedroom gymnastics

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## IronClydes

> Yummy! Just think of it as fuel for your next lift! Or bedroom gymnastics


It was the latter last night and will be the former this morning. Lol

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

222.2 pounds this morning. 2 weeks into this 1000 calorie cut while cycling low carbs at less than half my maintenance. I have also increased cardio to allow more consumption throughout. Still no noticeable visible difference from myself, my wife, or fellow competitors.

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

> 222.2 pounds this morning. 2 weeks into this 1000 calorie cut while cycling low carbs at less than half my maintenance. I have also increased cardio to allow more consumption throughout. Still no noticeable visible difference from myself, my wife, or fellow competitors. 222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


Was shocked to weigh in less than the day before after that huge cheat meal last night. I was dehydrated and had used bathroom twice since, however. 

I have to say i am not sure I want to maintain this difficult calorie restriction given the absence of any results so far. 

Changes in training take about 6 weeks to be realized in growth or the lack therein. However, changes in diet have immediate effects and are generally noticed rather quickly. Especially when they are as drastic as cutting 35% of my calories and halving my carb intake while cycling. I really feel I should have noticed some visible changes and weight loss...but a 1-1.5 loss that may or may not be fat? Unsure.

I am looking forward to the results of increasing my blast dosage 40%, from 500-700 a week! I am, however, concerned with metabolic damage from an aggressive calories restriction. I am considering following Marcus's advice and cycling from maintenance. But, I am unsure of his approach and awaiting his response to my last response to him on this thread. There is a chance we are actually taking the same route, just using different directional cues. 

I will repost my response for any who know his intent better and can clarify.

Also, any feedback on where I am is respected. Perhaps I am being too anxious and need to ride this aggressive restriction out longer? Just afraid of metabolic damage and also muscle loss. Plus, on this dose of a blast, I don't want to waste growth potential trying to cut without results in either area: no fat loss, no muscle gain. I prefer to cut fat right now, but if that's not working, at least gaining the muscle from the blast would be a win. Maybe I need to salvage this in that way and return to at least a maintenance dose via reverse dieting (increase 100 daily up to maintenance) in case damage was done to my metabolism. 

Thoughts welcome. I have a thick skin. Don't worry about how I will take your feedback. I know I am impatient, inexperienced (read a lot though), and stubborn. 

Thanks guys!

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## IronClydes

> Personally I wouldn't do anything drastic like dropping cals to harsh which will have a negative effect on your muscle tissue, ive seen it time and time again its muscle tissue suicide and imho these calorie restricted diets what many go on are disaster for retaining muscle tissue but great at cutting fat, now for me muscle tissue maintenance is the number one priority even in a cut or a bulk. Putting muscle tissue on is so fuking hard there is no way in hell I will waste it away with some of these stupid calorie restricted diets what someone posts or copies out of books. Everyone is different and responds in different ways so the first thing you need to do is see how your body responds and learn from this to contrast a plan to suit your goals but the priority is muscle reservation no matter what your goal. TDEE calculators are all over the internet so work out what yours comes in at and monitor yourself over the next 7-10 days if your not gaining or losing weight that's your sweet spot to work from, if things are moving in one direction or another change things up until you find your sweet spot of maintenance then work off that to suit your goals. First thing I would do is keep your cals the same but introduce a cardio regime what will put you in a deficit which will start the leaning process off while maintaining your tissue. Once you have come to a brick wall with your gains increase the cardio and slowly drop some of your cals, a carb cycling approach like ive shown you will do wonders IMHO and will also help to maintain your tissue which is key remember you don't want to lose all that weight and a load of muscle tissue which is very common that's why so many go around in circles of gaining and losing and never end up going any further forward because they are stuck or don't know how to cut properly, they just read out of book how you should cut but we are all different and that's why monitoring your response and how your body reacts is key.





> Thanks for taking the time to share your experience and knowledge, Marcus. That means a lot. It appears that when you use cardio to increase fat loss, you don't consider those burned calories earned for re-consumption? I'm assuming then that you find your maintenance accounting for the extra calories burned weight lifting. Following this, if you are cutting at maintenance, then he cardio actually puts you into a caloric deficit. For instance, if I ran 45 minutes I'd then be in about a 700 calorie deficit. So, what I am currently doing is similar to your approach. I start with a 1000 deficit, but then I earn about 300 calories weightlifting and 5-700 doing cardio. This increases my consumption to my maintenance level. Seems we are just approaching from different sides and serving at the same result. My calculated TDEE does not account for weight lifting calorie needs, it is just my baseline without exercise. The only difference is that I've jumped right into carb cycling with a cardio induced caloric deficit. Whereas you recommend doing carb cycling after the cardio induced deficit has ceased to produce results. Am I following this all correctly? If so, it appears I could already be following your recommendations, just calculated the steps differently. 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


Since Marcus has been away and not on the forums much lately, anyone that knows his response to this, please chime in. Even through your advice and experience at me. I am learning.....slowly.

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

> Was shocked to weigh in less than the day before after that huge cheat meal last night. I was dehydrated and had used bathroom twice since, however. 
> 
> I have to say i am not sure I want to maintain this difficult calorie restriction given the absence of any results so far. 
> 
> *Changes in training take about 6 weeks to be realized in growth or the lack therein. However, changes in diet have immediate effects and are generally noticed rather quickly.* Especially when they are as drastic as cutting 35% of my calories and halving my carb intake while cycling. I really feel I should have noticed some visible changes and weight loss...but a 1-1.5 loss that may or may not be fat? Unsure.
> 
> I am looking forward to the results of increasing my blast dosage 40%, from 500-700 a week! I am, however, concerned with metabolic damage from an aggressive calories restriction. I am considering following Marcus's advice and cycling from maintenance. But, I am unsure of his approach and awaiting his response to my last response to him on this thread. There is a chance we are actually taking the same route, just using different directional cues. 
> 
> I will repost my response for any who know his intent better and can clarify.
> ...


Bro, I whole heartedly disagree with you here, when i first strted out and learning about dieting as a live human guinea pig, it took me 6 months for the penny to drop, and five / six years later I'm still mastering dieting techniquies. Have you been independantgly researching ANY of the terms and / or science behind any of this ? Anyway my point was that it takes three weeks to get into 'fat burning zone', you are being impatient and wanting instant results

----------


## IronClydes

> Bro, I whole heartedly disagree with you here, when i first strted out and learning about dieting as a live human guinea pig, it took me 6 months for the penny to drop, and five / six years later I'm still mastering dieting techniquies. Have you been independantgly researching ANY of the terms and / or science behind any of this ? Anyway my point was that it takes three weeks to get into 'fat burning zone', you are being impatient and wanting instant results


I thought I was being impatient, just hearing a lot of other things. And, yes, you'd be surprised to know how many conflicting sources of information there is on what you are recommending. I have been researching, just hard to know who is right as they are so opposite. 




> Cheat meal : date with wifey - perfect. Order what you want, starters mains desserts, no or little alcohol. 
> 
> The 100g is tough and it's something to aim for, I would be tempted to give you more slack on the 200g days. 
> 
> Eat cheat meal and reassess after next workout.


I obviously forgot the alcohol part, two whiskeys...noted for next time!

What do you think about 3 days at 115 and 1 at 315, then repeat? This follows Marcus's advice of 3 days @ 40% below maintenance, followed by 1 @ 15% above maintenance and repeat. He then said you could lenthen the low days up to 5 as needed for results.




> The science behind the refeed is basically ; reset hormones and metabolism to base values. Have faith. Watch what happens. Report back.


What did you mean by watching what happens? Felt great and could have ate more than that 3,400 calorie meal. lol




> ^^^^ ok Tduff, hopefully words are with me a little better today and I can explain more clearly and you the benefit of my experience. 
> 
> Because you are on cycle, fat loss and muscle growth can and should be accelerated during carb cycling, the results are only limited by the numbers involved, I believe that 4*100 low and 3* 200 high could be more suitable for somebody who is not on cycle or on TRT dosages. Just my thoughts, let's get you in the groove and see what's happening. I just don't want to waste any time while on cycle.


So, what did you feel was more suitable for someone on TRT and currently at cycle dosages then? More I assume?




> Back side 
> 
> Attachment 156842
> 
> 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


I actually don't look as cut or pumped as I did in this photo. Things are going the wrong way so far. Too soon maybe...




> I start my cut usually around 210 215lba...i eat about 150gm of carbs and once a week refeed with about 600gm of carbs...when i get further into the diet i introduce the carb cycling and will do 100, 150, 200 and still one day of re-feed...my fat lose calories are about 2200cal per day...this works for me and has for a long time, but now that i am gettin golder i fid it harder to make progress at these numbers...


Man, these numbers sound much more appetizing. lol 100, 150, 200, then refeed 600 once a week.

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## MR-FQ320

> I thought I was being impatient, just hearing a lot of other things. And, yes, you'd be surprised to know how many conflicting sources of information there is on what you are recommending. I have been researching, just hard to know who is right as they are so opposite. 
> 
> *Give me an example*
> 
> 
> 
> I obviously forgot the alcohol part, two whiskeys...noted for next time!*thats 48 hours of impaired liver and kidney function, you might as well not bother lifting for two days now*
> 
> What do you think about 3 days at 115 and 1 at 315, then repeat? This follows Marcus's advice of 3 days @ 40% below maintenance, followed by 1 @ 15% above maintenance and repeat. He then said you could lenthen the low days up to 5 as needed for results. * sounds plausible, I was going to recomend 5 at 100 and two at 250*
> ...


*All parameters are infinitely variable, highly person dependant, my methods i advise worked for me, I am surprised you are seeing nothing, change something if you must, Plan , Do , Check , Act , repeat*

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## MR-FQ320

If you didn't lose any fat in 4 days at 100g carbs, how can you expect to lose fat in three days at 115g ??????????????

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## MR-FQ320

How's it gone this week ? How many high / low days and what numbers did u shoot ? Is it cheat meal and weigh in tonight ?

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## IronClydes

> How's it gone this week ? How many high / low days and what numbers did u shoot ? Is it cheat meal and weigh in tonight ?


I really thought it over and talked it over with my wife. I decided I'd rather make the best out of my blast focused on muscle growth. So, I'm on a slight bulk now until the blast ends. Then I'm cutting back to 20% below tdee. I'm currently 10% over tdee. 

This cut with the carb cycling was overkill for me. Work, home, and gym life got to a point I wasn't comfortable staying at. Super irritable. I have never had a caloric intake that low and carb cycling on top of that for the first time just nuked me. 

I am going to ease into the cut at less of a caloric deficit following this blast's completion. 

Here are my progress photos as if yesterday:

Attachment 157201

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## IronClydes

> I really thought it over and talked it over with my wife. I decided I'd rather make the best out of my blast focused on muscle growth. So, I'm on a slight bulk now until the blast ends. Then I'm cutting back to 20% below tdee. I'm currently 10% over tdee. 
> 
> This cut with the carb cycling was overkill for me. Work, home, and gym life got to a point I wasn't comfortable staying at. Super irritable. I have never had a caloric intake that low and carb cycling on top of that for the first time just nuked me. 
> 
> I am going to ease into the cut at less of a caloric deficit following this blast's completion. 
> 
> Here are my progress photos as if yesterday:
> 
> Attachment 157201


And these are from 2.5 years ago; not a bad change.

Attachment 157202

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## MR-FQ320

What I don't get is this, you're on TRT, you don't even have to worry about PCt or recovery, so why just jump on 1250mg test a week until you've got the body you want? Use clen for cutting and another compound say deca to grow ?

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## IronClydes

> What I don't get is this, you're on TRT, you don't even have to worry about PCt or recovery, so why just jump on 1250mg test a week until you've got the body you want? Use clen for cutting and another compound say deca to grow ?


These forums and some really awesome members have been my only source for determining my blast dosing and the like. As I am a police officer, and AAS and testosterone are all controlled and illegal to use at these doses without a prescription to do so, I don't have any other safe sources for information. 

As such, Kelkel, AlmostGone, Marcus, Buster Brown, Bio Active, Nach 3, and several others have helped me figure this stuff out since last September. It has been the general consensus that I should not jump my test up so high so early in my cycle/blast experience. Mainly as I can make the same gains at the moderate dosages this early in the game. If I jump high I will be forced to stay that high or higher every time I blast/cycle for optimal results. 

Furthermore, the consensus is not to jump into other AAS this soon as blasting testosterone alone will do well and I should make that work by itself as long as feasible for the same reasons as before: otherwise, I am starting with more and will need that level or better to repeat the results. 

This has been my only advice on the topic. This is why I do what I do. That make sense?

Why don't you agree with them?

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

^^^^ yeah I get what your saying now, I understand you now, I also understand where the older guys are coming from and I'm never going to disagree with any of their advice. Personally I think you're in no mans land with regards to your body, you want to lean out but not lose size, and you want tongrow too, all in seriousness this can take 2/3/4/5 years, although I perceive your perma TRT dosage to be a distinct advantage. I have a less averse opinion of risk vs health.

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## IronClydes

Not seeing how it's no mans land. I am bulking now. Cutting later. Not both at once. I know that's pointless.

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

> Not seeing how it's no mans land. I am bulking now. Cutting later. Not both at once. I know that's pointless. 222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.


Turn of phrase that's all. 

Bulk cut most effective. 

It is possible to do both, I was disgruntled you didn't give it longer, ( that's what I mean about TRT , why not give yourself 24 hell even 36 weeks at 500/ 700 per week ? ) if time wasn't the answer then other compounds to assist certainly would have been. 

Good luck man, I hope you get to where you want to be.

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## IronClydes

> Turn of phrase that's all. Bulk cut most effective. It is possible to do both, I was disgruntled you didn't give it longer, ( that's what I mean about TRT , why not give yourself 24 hell even 36 weeks at 500/ 700 per week ? ) if time wasn't the answer then other compounds to assist certainly would have been. Good luck man, I hope you get to where you want to be.


Thanks MR FQ. I just feel I'd rather spend my blast optimizing gains in a bulk. I will return to the cut following this blast. 

As I understand from the others I mentioned, going that long on cycle dose is not good for body as sides and the like become an issue. I am told that 14 weeks is the longer end of an acceptable cycle/blast length.

222.5, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

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## MR-FQ320

I also think you need to learn from personal experience and find out what works for you.

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## IronClydes

> Right I have just read the first page again, you were asking advice on how to lose 4% bf as so far you hadn't succeeded because you were eating at maintenance. We came up with a plan to get you to lose this fat asap because you were on cycle and time was running out. 
> 
> Have you started yet ? 
> 
> Listen, Marcus' carb cycling thread opened new horizons for me, i started on his less 40% plus 15%, fat loss plateuxed, I modified macros, calories, high/low days, played about with the numbers, trialled things, no two weeks are the same - if I feel like I need a refeed then I will refeed, the more i do it, the easier the numbers are to manipulate, that's why I said don't bother with t3, it screws the numbers and you can't work out exactly what you need. 
> 
> We have both shown you the door to the solution to your problem, both will work, to different degrees, it depends on you, your goals, and how YOU work it, make a start and run with it.


Re-reading old threads. 

You guys really helped me out then and, as I re-read, I am still learning!

Thanks again fellas 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Kay kay

Iron Clyde just some
Advice IMO you dont need a refeed until your sub 10% really, and a 1 day refeed does NOTHING to throw off the metabolism as some claim. A much better approach is 6-8 weeks into your diet taking 1-2 weeks at maintenance to reset metabolism. This is called a diet break. A one day refeed will not accomplish this in any way, all it accomplishes is refilling glycogen and mental benefits

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