# FITNESS and NUTRITION FORUM > SUPPLEMENTS >  Kratom...anyone know or use this?

## MuscleScience

I had someone approach me about selling this in my business. I sell a fair amount of supplements and nutricueticals. I have actually never heard of this stuff. I guess it's legal and is a plant in the Coffee tree family. Anyone familiar? Or use it for pain relief???

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## Ashop

I have never used it before but I have heard many good things about it,,,and also some negatives. Some claim its a miracle worker for pain issues and there are several different 'strains' for different effects. I know some areas its illegal to sell/ship.

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## JordanKratomSyndicat

We just put a new product up on our website. It is a Special Mixed Kratom Blend. Check it out! I have personally tested it.. and I love it.

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## MuscleScience

> I have never used it before but I have heard many good things about it,,,and also some negatives. Some claim its a miracle worker for pain issues and there are several different 'strains' for different effects. I know some areas its illegal to sell/ship.


I just tried it out, it worked pretty well for me. I tore a muscle off my spine and it balls up and hurts pretty bad. It really seem to help relax that muscle and it helped for days. Way better than pain pills or muscle relaxers.

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## Bio-Active

> I just tried it out, it worked pretty well for me. I tore a muscle off my spine and it balls up and hurts pretty bad. It really seem to help relax that muscle and it helped for days. Way better than pain pills or muscle relaxers.


Which did you use?

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## MuscleScience

> Which did you use?


 I think it was Bali gold strain?

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## 956Vette

red vein thai did me the best (to my surprise). also enjoy green indo as of late. interesting how the differing strains and dosage make all the difference. what I like is that it is not habit forming (for me) in the least - I will forget I have a stockpile on the shelf and one day the mood will strike (or an injury will occur where I would certainly opt for kratom over ibuprofen).

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## 956Vette

The secret, from my novice knowledge/experience, is that you need to provide the premium kratom powder in encapsulated form, within the 000...largest size possible - those who punish themselves by oral consumption or attempt to mask the taste = fail (just my .02).

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## almostgone

> red vein thai did me the best (to my surprise). also enjoy green indo as of late. interesting how the differing strains and dosage make all the difference. what I like is that it is not habit forming (for me) in the least - I will forget I have a stockpile on the shelf and one day the mood will strike (or an injury will occur where I would certainly opt for kratom over ibuprofen).


LOL, I feel like we're analyzing strains of weed, not that there is anything wrong with that.  :LOL: 
I would love to see a non-biased writeup on this that encompassed basic starting doses, etc., especially if it is a non- habit forming substance. There are times that I need Nsaids and relaxers and then there are times that I think something less would do the trick.

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## MuscleScience

> LOL, I feel like we're analyzing strains of weed, not that there is anything wrong with that. 
> I would love to see a non-biased writeup on this that encompassed basic starting doses, etc., especially if it is a non- habit forming substance. There are times that I need Nsaids and relaxers and then there are times that I think something less would do the trick.


Ha right? I looked like an odd duck walking into the vape shop I got it at. I will say the stuff is way better than taking pain pills, i fucking hate taking them. Sometimes I hurt so bad I just lay in bed. Rather than take that poison shit...

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## almostgone

I'm going to have to hit the head shop...error, vape supply store or go online and order a small quantity of this to try it. I had a partial tear in my lower spinal erectors a little over a decade ago and from time to.time, it will knot up and stay locked in a spasm. I'm scripted Voltaren tabs and Flexeril to.use whenever needed and don't mind taking them when necessary. However, I would like to try something that would be easier on the liver, etc.
Actually, I'm sitting on one of those shiatsu pad doohickeys that goes in a chair right now. I'm past due for a deep tissue session, just waiting for the pretty massage lady to text me back to set up an appointment.

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## RaginCajun

> Ha right? I looked like an odd duck walking into the vape shop I got it at. I will say the stuff is way better than taking pain pills, i fucking hate taking them. Sometimes I hurt so bad I just lay in bed. Rather than take that poison shit...


i have a bud that loves him some kratom

he is pretty addicted to it, or at least to the feeling.

says he switches up brands to get different effects, so kind of like AG said, comparing it to cannabis

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## RaginCajun

good thread MS as i am looking for things to help out with muscle tension/tightness

i may just have to try some for this purpose

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## Ashop

> good thread MS as i am looking for things to help out with muscle tension/tightness
> 
> i may just have to try some for this purpose


Please post your results if you end up giving it a go.

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## Bio-Active

> I think it was Bali gold strain?


 there are lots of different ones. I'll check with my buddy and let you know what does what

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## songdog

Well if it works for pain that good.Then you can bet the FDA will get involved beacuse they will lose money.

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## Bio-Active

> Well if it works for pain that good.Then you can bet the FDA will get involved beacuse they will lose money.


I heard they are trying to already

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## songdog

They are as useful as the IOC!

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## MuscleScience

> I heard they are trying to already


I hope not, it's literally the only thing that has helped me without nasty side effect or the risk of dependency. I have tried every thing from trigger point injections, nerve ablation, dry needling, PT, even considered a mid back fusion. Literally every pharmaceutical known to man.

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## RaginCajun

> Please post your results if you end up giving it a go.


will do in my thread.

just don't have the extra cash to spend at the moment

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## jstone

> I hope not, it's literally the only thing that has helped me without nasty side effect or the risk of dependency. I have tried every thing from trigger point injections, nerve ablation, dry needling, PT, even considered a mid back fusion. Literally every pharmaceutical known to man.


Dont fear the fusion. It changed my life, I was on tons of pain killers, and not doing good. Got the fusion done quit seeing the doctor giving me the pills, and nownim back to training. If you have any questions about the process just pm me. I tried most everything that you did, one advantage you have is you haven't resorted to using poison (painkillers).

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## MuscleScience

> Dont fear the fusion. It changed my life, I was on tons of pain killers, and not doing good. Got the fusion done quit seeing the doctor giving me the pills, and nownim back to training. If you have any questions about the process just pm me. I tried most everything that you did, one advantage you have is you haven't resorted to using poison (painkillers).


thanks man, appreciate it!

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## MuscleScience

I'm doing really well with this stuff. I take it once maybe twice a week and it really seems to keep my pain way down and keep my muscle from knotting up. Only problem is its expensive and I'm have been told to find a powder form of it. Currently I get it in capsule form.

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## 956Vette

> I'm doing really well with this stuff. I take it once maybe twice a week and it really seems to keep my pain way down and keep my muscle from knotting up. Only problem is its expensive and I'm have been told to find a powder form of it. Currently I get it in capsule form.


Expensive? You should be able to get a local kilo of it for ~$150. Dirt cheap....

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## RaginCajun

> Expensive? You should be able to get a local kilo of it for ~$150. Dirt cheap....


recommend any websites for it?

i am thinking about giving it a go for all of my tight ass tendons and muscles. i have knots all over my body!

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## MuscleScience

> Expensive? You should be able to get a local kilo of it for ~$150. Dirt cheap....


Ha, no it's much more expensive than that locally unfortunately. :-(

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## Ashop

> Expensive? You should be able to get a local kilo of it for ~$150. Dirt cheap....



That's a very inexpensive price for sure.

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## jstone

Anybdoy looking for good kratom I have used mile high kratom, and im no expert but the product seems great. The best so far is the green vein indo. They have a sampler pack which is 7 ounce for 60 dollars. MuscleScience try the private reserve green indo, it should work wonders for you. They also have concentrated resins, and leaf that is mixed with the resins. Im not affiliated with mile high kratom, I just used them for one order so far, and will probably be placing another order soon. 

There prices are higher than some other places but a friend recommended them to me. I have only used it a handful of times, and my first purchase I went in with my buddy on an order. I didn't want a couple ounces of something I didnt like. A kilo is around 180-200 dollars, but you can get 8 ounces for 60-80 dollars. 

I would also limit use, because it can cause opiate like addiction from what I have read about it.

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## 956Vette

> Anybdoy looking for good kratom I have used mile high kratom, and im no expert but the product seems great. The best so far is the green vein indo. They have a sampler pack which is 7 ounce for 60 dollars. MuscleScience try the private reserve green indo, it should work wonders for you. They also have concentrated resins, and leaf that is mixed with the resins. Im not affiliated with mile high kratom, I just used them for one order so far, and will probably be placing another order soon. 
> 
> There prices are higher than some other places but a friend recommended them to me. I have only used it a handful of times, and my first purchase I went in with my buddy on an order. I didn't want a couple ounces of something I didnt like. A kilo is around 180-200 dollars, but you can get 8 ounces for 60-80 dollars. 
> 
> I would also limit use, because it can cause opiate like addiction from what I have read about it.


I also recommend this company and have found benefit from the green indo (also liked the red thai...not liking a couple others...). They are run by good folks (from the bb'ing community) who run sales/promotions...this is one reason I value their service. Not being one who necessarily enjoys opiates, I often forget I even have it on the shelf - I find it to not be habit forming in the least (just one opinion, your mileage may vary).

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## jstone

> I also recommend this company and have found benefit from the green indo (also liked the red thai...not liking a couple others...). They are run by good folks (from the bb'ing community) who run sales/promotions...this is one reason I value their service. Not being one who necessarily enjoys opiates, I often forget I even have it on the shelf - I find it to not be habit forming in the least (just one opinion, your mileage may vary).


I dont beleive it would be habit forming for me.but I have read that some people end up addicted to it.

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## almostgone

I've been reading on this and the consensus seems to be that as long as it is unadulterated Kratom, there is no chance of throwing a false positive on a 5 panel urinalysis. Does anyone have an experience showing otherwise?

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## MuscleScience

> I dont beleive it would be habit forming for me.but I have read that some people end up addicted to it.


Thanks Stone for the recommendation. 

I have found that I have no desire to take this stuff unless my muscle is balled up bad and I hurt like hell. Where as with pain meds, if I felt even the slighted bit of pain I would take some. The funny thing about pain meds, it did actually help reduce pain much at all.

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## Juced_porkchop

can be a useful tool but use with caution, it might not be an outright opiod but it works on same parts of brain and has related addiction tendency's as well. I have a few strains of it but rarely use it, prefer medical cannabis, safer. but kratom is not exactly the same, makes more zombie like IMO, i feel my IQ drop when i have taken it. ( i have alot of spinal/back issues.

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## MuscleScience

> Anybdoy looking for good kratom I have used mile high kratom, and im no expert but the product seems great. The best so far is the green vein indo. They have a sampler pack which is 7 ounce for 60 dollars. MuscleScience try the private reserve green indo, it should work wonders for you. They also have concentrated resins, and leaf that is mixed with the resins. Im not affiliated with mile high kratom, I just used them for one order so far, and will probably be placing another order soon. 
> 
> There prices are higher than some other places but a friend recommended them to me. I have only used it a handful of times, and my first purchase I went in with my buddy on an order. I didn't want a couple ounces of something I didnt like. A kilo is around 180-200 dollars, but you can get 8 ounces for 60-80 dollars. 
> 
> I would also limit use, because it can cause opiate like addiction from what I have read about it.


I ordered a small batch of indo today, we shall see how it goes.

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## NACH3

This is a great conversation fellas... I've been looking into this as well for my shoulder pain - and I'm going to try this - thanks for starting this thread MS... Very informative - lemme know how you get on MS!!

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## MuscleScience

> This is a great conversation fellas... I've been looking into this as well for my shoulder pain - and I'm going to try this - thanks for starting this thread MS... Very informative - lemme know how you get on MS!!


So far in doing great on it. I have not had to refill any of my pain medications. Typically I would have a bad flare up and would have to do a whole ton of different therapies and sometimes hardcore meds to calm it down and not suffer. I use to avoid my workouts because that was a trigger especially doing any time of workout that would load my mid spine like squat or dead lift. Even doing bench or pull-ups could trigger a flare up. 

Now I can just workout without much fear of having a debilitating flare up. If I do feel it starting to go, I can take it and be fine.

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## almostgone

Muscle Sci, have you seen any solid proof that Kratom would show as a false positive for opiates on a 5 panel urinalysis? I saw just a few scattered incidents, but going by the way the info was presented, I was inclined to think that the people in question had actually used opiates or purchased Kratom adulterated with some form of an opiate.
Edit: I would love to give this stuff a try but also have to maintain my employment.  :Wink:

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## MuscleScience

> Muscle Sci, have you seen any solid proof that Kratom would show as a false positive for opiates on a 5 panel urinalysis? I saw just a few scattered incidents, but going by the way the info was presented, I was inclined to think that the people in question had actually used opiates or purchased Kratom adulterated with some form of an opiate.
> Edit: I would love to give this stuff a try but also have to maintain my employment.


From what I understand, the two main active compounds are not chemically similar to opioids as they are alkaloids. Even though they activate the mu-opoide receptor. I think the only way you would test positive is if it were contaminated.

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## almostgone

Gracias, MuscleSci. That was the impression I had, but wanted to get more input. Might have to make test purchase of some Kratom.  :Smilie:

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## TKS

You guys want kratom at a great price, I can point you to it.

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## almostgone

> You guys want kratom at a great price, "I can point you to it


Sorry about the loss of your friend, but you need to have Admin's permission to sell anything.

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## marcus300

what a sales pitch lmfao

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## NACH3

> So far in doing great on it. I have not had to refill any of my pain medications. Typically I would have a bad flare up and would have to do a whole ton of different therapies and sometimes hardcore meds to calm it down and not suffer. I use to avoid my workouts because that was a trigger especially doing any time of workout that would load my mid spine like squat or dead lift. Even doing bench or pull-ups could trigger a flare up. 
> 
> Now I can just workout without much fear of having a debilitating flare up. If I do feel it starting to go, I can take it and be fine.


That's great to hear... I've been talking to the local head shops(vape shops whatever) and they carry it... But I'm liking what I'm hearing from jstone/& Vette! Btw thx for the heads up on 'vendor'... 

MS... I've delt with pain killers earlier in my life and poison is the correct word for sure(it's the damn devil)... I won't go back to that but I am willing to try this... I'll sure let youse know how it goes! Thx fellas!

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## MuscleScience

Jstone or Vette, 

I just got my pack from mile high Kratom. Seems like good stuff

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## NACH3

> Jstone or Vette, 
> 
> I just got my pack from mile high Kratom. Seems like good stuff


Which 'strain' did you go with, Mus Sci!

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## MuscleScience

White indo like jstone suggested. 

My lady had an ovarian cyst and it finally ruptured last night. She was in a ton of pain. I had her try the lowest dose. It cleared up her pain and menstral cramps within 30 min of taking it. She is crunchy and only like natural and organic products. So she will not under any circumstances take medication. Lucky she was open to that, and man did it make her night, and mine way better. This stuff is a miracle lol

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## Bio-Active

> White indo like jstone suggested. My lady had an ovarian cyst and it finally ruptured last night. She was in a ton of pain. I had her try the lowest dose. It cleared up her pain and menstral cramps within 30 min of taking it. She is crunchy and only like natural and organic products. So she will not under any circumstances take medication. Lucky she was open to that, and man did it make her night, and mine way better. This stuff is a miracle lol


 nice to know might give it a go for my back. What was the dose ?

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## MuscleScience

For me to close to 6-9g
For her it was only 2-3g

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## almostgone

> White indo like jstone suggested. 
> 
> My lady had an ovarian cyst and it finally ruptured last night. She was in a ton of pain. I had her try the lowest dose. It cleared up her pain and menstral cramps within 30 min of taking it. She is crunchy and only like natural and organic products. So she will not under any circumstances take medication. Lucky she was open to that, and man did it make her night, and mine way better. This stuff is a miracle lol


Ouch! Glad she had access to something for relief. I've heard that is extremely painful for the ladies. Definitely sounds brutal.
I've got to at least grab a sample pack of.this stuff.

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## MuscleScience

> Ouch! Glad she had access to something for relief. I've heard that is extremely painful for the ladies. Definitely sounds brutal.
> I've got to at least grab a sample pack of.this stuff.


Yeah, she passed about a golf ball sized blood clot yesterday. Had this not happened to her before and knew what was going on I would have rushed her to the ER. I feel terrible for her when this happens. She gets it about once a year. She has a retro posed uterus which increases her risk of cysts and painful cramping. Not to get into gory detail and all.

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## almostgone

> Yeah, she passed about a golf ball sized blood clot yesterday. Had this not happened to her before and knew what was going on I would have rushed her to the ER. I feel terrible for her when this happens. She gets it about once a year. She has a retro posed uterus which increases her risk of cysts and painful cramping. Not to get into gory detail and all.


Totally understand. My wife battled with endometriosis and had several miscarriages when she was younger. She used to have terrible bouts with pain and cramping(more than the normal monthly cramps). She is very reluctant to take anything for pain as even Advil literally make her sleepy.
Nowadays, she suffers with arthritis and it's almost impossible to get her to consistently take script Nsaids for more than a few days, so that was another reason I thought of.trying Kratom.
You just literally ingest this right? Or is it better absorbed as a tea? Hell, if It will help her, I get her to go redneck and put a pinch of it between her cheek and gum.  :Wink:

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## MuscleScience

> Totally understand. My wife battled with endometriosis and had several miscarriages when she was younger. She used to have terrible bouts with pain and cramping(more than the normal monthly cramps). She is very reluctant to take anything for pain as even Advil literally make her sleepy.
> Nowadays, she suffers with arthritis and it's almost impossible to get her to consistently take script Nsaids for more than a few days, so that was another reason I thought of.trying Kratom.
> You just literally ingest this right? Or is it better absorbed as a tea? Hell, if It will help her, I get her to go redneck and put a pinch of it between her cheek and gum.


I've just been mixing it into water and chugging it. It actually taste a lot like kava tea. 

I am thinking about seeing if you can put the powder into a coffee machine and brewing it. I mean Kratom is a species of coffee tree. Mix it with some creamer and stevia and you got a nice morning coffee is my thought. I am going to research it more and see if that works or not. I can't see why it wouldn't, maybe someone here has done it already?

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## MuscleScience

Ok, I guess there are whole forums dedicated to this topic. So scratch the brewing method I guess. 

Found a tea recipe:

Some people eat their kratom but being an old-timer I like the ritual of extracting it into tea. I've been doing it twice daily for a long time now and I'd like to share my method.

If one has leaf, either crushed or whole, the extraction will benefit from grinding the leaf a bit in a coffee grinder or mini food-processor. The more surface area, the more alkaloids will theoretically be extracted (though I'll say that with little tolerance, coursely ground leaf provides plenty of effect). I don't sweat trying to get it as fine as the powders that are sold, it seems to be equi-potent... ymmv as always. Powders need no preparation. Don't ask me about those new-fangled "extracts" or "resins", because I don't know!

Using a small saucepan (mine is 8" x 2") over medium heat, bring just a touch over 1 cup (a full coffee cup) of water and one dose (10g or less) of kratom to a very light boil - just over a simmer. Boil for 15 minutes. 

"In my house, this leaves 1/2 cup of liquid. If using more kratom, or making it for two or more, my rule of thumb, for the saucepan I use, is to start with 1/2 cup water over the desired total - for two doses, shooting for 1/2 cup each, I'd use 1.5 cups of water, and for a hefty dose I'd add a bit also to prevent it from boiling down too far. I add just a touch more liquid when using self-ground leaf than with powder. Doubtless you may have slightly different results or preferences than I, and may need to add or subtract water to suit your conditions. If in doubt, use too much water, as you can always boil it off at the end at a loss of only time!

Decant the pan at 45 degrees for 15 seconds or so - this will gather the material in a clump which makes pouring easier. Then pour it slowly through either a metal coffee filter (for powder) or a wire strainer (for ground leaf), using a spoon to block the solids from the drippings, and then also to squeeze most of the liquids from the kratom. It's not essential to squeeze it all out the first time, as you'll be doing one more extraction.

Put another 1 cup of water and (after squeezing) any leftovers in your strainer into the pan, and put it back on the burner. While waiting for this to boil again, it's time to enjoy the first extract! Add 2 tsp of the sweetener(s) of your choice, and 1 tsp lemon juice (just my suggestion of course) and drink down.

Boil the kratom for 15 minutes again as before, except for making a better effort to get every last drop of the liquid out of the kratom. This extraction will taste much better and have far less actives. I tried doing a 3rd extraction once, for the hell of it, and my beautiful assistant, who was familiar with kratom but who had no tolerance, stated that it had a very slight effect, take that for what it's worth.

Obviously this isn't the only way to take kratom, but it's worked for me for a long time, and I thought that some other people might find it useful also."

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## almostgone

I'm ordering some when I get up this afternoon. I didn't see white indo, but saw white vein Borneo or.something like that. Figured I wouldn't start off with the private reserve or anuthing. Just the basic level green indo and go for it?
Appreciate your help, MuscleSci. I've gotten the wife to eat some medicinal brownies years ago and she had no problem with it until we were watching Green Acres on TV. The little pig walked into the room and she totally lost it. Couldn't quit.laughing and had tears coming out of her eyes  :LOL: . I believe she will try this much quicker than a pill from a bottle. Plus, I am fairly high mileage and have my share of aches and pains.

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## almostgone

Thanks for the help, MuscleSci. I just ordered 4 oz. each of the Green Vein Malay and the Private Reserve Green Indo. That should be sufficient for a test drive?

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## MuscleScience

> I'm ordering some when I get up this afternoon. I didn't see white indo, but saw white vein Borneo or.something like that. Figured I wouldn't start off with the private reserve or anuthing. Just the basic level green indo and go for it?
> Appreciate your help, MuscleSci. I've gotten the wife to eat some medicinal brownies years ago and she had no problem with it until we were watching Green Acres on TV. The little pig walked into the room and she totally lost it. Couldn't quit.laughing and had tears coming out of her eyes . I believe she will try this much quicker than a pill from a bottle. Plus, I am fairly high mileage and have my share of aches and pains.


I got private reserve green indo, 8 oz for like 70 bucks.

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## almostgone

Posted up just before you did. Made my purchase and will see how it goes. Got to get some sleep. Want to work legs before Into.to work tonight. Gotta get horizontal and grab some Zzzzs.

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## Bio-Active

> For me to close to 6-9g For her it was only 2-3g


 I'm gonna try the Bali are you doing powder?

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## MuscleScience

> I'm gonna try the Bali are you doing powder?


Yeah,

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## Bio-Active

> Yeah,


I found some here local so gonna give it a shot and post up. I am gonna start low so were do you think i should start dose wise and how often?

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## MuscleScience

> I found some here local so gonna give it a shot and post up. I am gonna start low so were do you think i should start dose wise and how often?


I think I started at 5-6g at first. I only do it as needed.

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## Bio-Active

> I think I started at 5-6g at first. I only do it as needed.


 I never get that debilitating back pain anymore but there is definitely dull ache that only goes away when I lay down or rotate sitting often. If I do much bending it will get pretty sore but never like it did when I felt the discogenic and the nerve pain. It's more like an annoying dull ache that I got from doing the pt that just never went away. It's been years since I stopped the pt

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## TKS

> Sorry about the loss of your friend, but you need to have Admin's permission to sell anything.


I'll talk to admin here, maybe I'll sponsor here. I go by Lordsks on all the other forums, Outlaw, ProM, Peakmuscle, Hardcore underground, and many more. Not really a sales pitch as the funds are going back to the family. I sell premium kratom, if you google the kratom syndicate youtube I have about 20 independent reviews done. Some of the best kratom on the market. I sponsor on 4 other forums now.

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## marcus300

> I'll talk to admin here, maybe I'll sponsor here. I go by Lordsks on all the other forums, Outlaw, ProM, Peakmuscle, Hardcore underground, and many more. Not really a sales pitch as the funds are going back to the family. I sell premium kratom, if you google the kratom syndicate youtube I have about 20 independent reviews done. Some of the best kratom on the market. I sponsor on 4 other forums now.


I think you need to pm admin and ask for permission to advertise on here my friend

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## almostgone

> I'll talk to admin here, maybe I'll sponsor here. I go by Lordsks on all the other forums, Outlaw, ProM, Peakmuscle, Hardcore underground, and many more. Not really a sales pitch as the funds are going back to the family. I sell premium kratom, if you google the kratom syndicate youtube I have about 20 independent reviews done. Some of the best kratom on the market. I sponsor on 4 other forums now.


I contacted *Admin* for you. In the meantime, it would be nice if we had a post about various ways of preparing this. Making a tea, ingesting it, etc. I'm sure some would find a "Kratom for Beginners" type post (without any direct advertising) very helpful!  :Smilie:

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## NACH3

> I got private reserve green indo, 8 oz for like 70 bucks.


I'm definitely grabbing some as soon as I can(I'll try the place Stone/& Vette dealt with.. I think I'll be sticking with the Green indo as well... Hearing nothing but good things!

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## MuscleScience

So another great example of how great this stuff works for me. I woke up this morning and my midback was 100% flared up. 

Do describe it, it's different than a low back or a neck injury. I have three badly ruptured disc in my mid back from a lifting accident in highschool. A couple of them are pressing directly on my spinal cord and the third is sitting on the nerve root. When they inflame or are aggregated, my whole right side turns into a giant constricture and the muscle that I tore in the process of the injury balls up to about the size of a halved baseball. The cord compression causes some bowel issues though not severe. 

Normally, I would have to wait 3-4 days for it to calm down or take a high end pain med or muscle relaxer. Both would cause me to not be able to go to the gym. So today, it went out, I took a small dose or Kratom and was able to go to the gym and have a good workout and not suffer or really notice my back. It seems like it instantly causes the muscle to relax and relieve some of the compression on the segments in question.

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## Bio-Active

I'm really liking this thread ! I'm using my Kratom pre workout

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## TKS

> I contacted *Admin* for you. In the meantime, it would be nice if we had a post about various ways of preparing this. Making a tea, ingesting it, etc. I'm sure some would find a "Kratom for Beginners" type post (without any direct advertising) very helpful!


Sure I have a bunch of info, I have my own kratom forum. I'll post a few things here

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## MuscleScience

Good news, the ban has been postponed, I guess there was massive outrage about banning it even from doctors and senators.

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## Bio-Active

> Good news, the ban has been postponed, I guess there was massive outrage about banning it even from doctors and senators.


 that's a relief  :Smilie:

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## CrossOps

It may have passed for now from being banned, but they are already starting to turn up the heat on the visa / mastercard networks and shutting merchant accounts down. Banks are now really pressing it more than before. And for the ecommerce and mobile merchant based companies they are now trying to get certain actions (false sales reporting, cloaking of what is being sold, white hat and black hat based functions to elude tracking) labeled as Felonious (Felony Fraud). Is that even a word though?

Simply Put: if you are selling this, they want your ability to send and receive funds shut down. And, EVEN IF you could use a method of Voucher Based Systems or Crypto Based Currencies, they will still go after the sponsoring bank.

Ask me how I know  :Wink:

----------


## MuscleScience

> It may have passed for now from being banned, but they are already starting to turn up the heat on the visa / mastercard networks and shutting merchant accounts down. Banks are now really pressing it more than before. And for the ecommerce and mobile merchant based companies they are now trying to get certain actions (false sales reporting, cloaking of what is being sold, white hat and black hat based functions to elude tracking) labeled as Felonious (Felony Fraud). Is that even a word though?
> 
> Simply Put: if you are selling this, they want your ability to send and receive funds shut down. And, EVEN IF you could use a method of Voucher Based Systems or Crypto Based Currencies, they will still go after the sponsoring bank.
> 
> Ask me how I know


Land of the free.

----------


## RaginCajun

so, anyone using it currently?

effects?

----------


## CrossOps

> so, anyone using it currently?
> 
> effects?


It works VERY powerfully. More of a cerebral effect than CBD (Cannabinoids), however... CBD is MUCH better at body homeostasis management, and a SICK repair tool for ligaments and other muscle groups. Cannabinoids are an absolute way or cheating for recovery. Hands down, end of discussion. We have run so many GScope and LLT's at our company on cannabinoids, that I cant see straight. While cold pressed hemp seed oil works great, if you can get a TRUE organic hemp leaf only based oil, jump on it. You want cold pressed, not sliced, not hybrid. I deal with a lot of the leading companies in reference to cannabinoids, and there are maybe three that are legitimately getting pure oils.

Kratom is ok for what it does, but if you want healing or recovery on overload, you take real CBD.

----------


## CrossOps

> Land of the free.


I'm with you brother, just stating the industry as it is.

----------


## almostgone

> so, anyone using it currently?
> 
> effects?


I do an "as needed" basis, RC. If you try it, start off low. Too much gives me a hangover type feeling. It took me a few times to find my "sweet spot".

----------


## CrossOps

> I do an "as needed" basis, RC. If you try it, start off low. Too much gives me a hangover type feeling. It took me a few times to find my "sweet spot".


Which matches what others have said that I have spoken to about it. A slight entourage effect and depending on dosage strength, a slight laggy feeling the next morning.

----------


## almostgone

> Which matches what others have said that I have spoken to about it. A slight entourage effect and depending on dosage strength, a slight laggy feeling the next morning.


Started @ 3g and it wasnt enough. ~5g is probably enough for me. 10g was a little too much.  :Frown:

----------


## CrossOps

> Started @ 3g and it wasnt enough. ~5g is probably enough for me. 10g was a little too much.


I've had access to it, just haven't had the nerves to try it. I don't want to be "that guy" that has some unexpected adverse reaction to it LOL.

----------


## MuscleScience

> I've had access to it, just haven't had the nerves to try it. I don't want to be "that guy" that has some unexpected adverse reaction to it LOL.


Its really self limiting in its effects. So chances of a nasty adverse reaction are lower. Having said that, I have a really bad time with Cannabiods. I just can't handle them for some reason. Even though I know many people that do great and don't get what I get.

----------


## CrossOps

> Its really self limiting in its effects. So chances of a nasty adverse reaction are lower. Having said that, I have a really bad time with Cannabiods. I just can't handle them for some reason. Even though I know many people that do great and don't get what I get.


Hey MuscleScience, can you tell me what it does to you? What is it that you cant handle. I do not want to get in trouble, and Admin / Moderator let me know and I can edit this post but... MuscleSciene have you tried isolate or wax? If not, any chance we could work out a deal? I can send you free samples, but I would really like to know in private how it did or did not work for you. I just need some feedback on it.

In brief, I would love to test a different delivery method for CBD and would like to know how it worked.

----------


## MuscleScience

> Hey MuscleScience, can you tell me what it does to you? What is it that you cant handle. I do not want to get in trouble, and Admin / Moderator let me know and I can edit this post but... MuscleSciene have you tried isolate or wax? If not, any chance we could work out a deal? I can send you free samples, but I would really like to know in private how it did or did not work for you. I just need some feedback on it.
> 
> In brief, I would love to test a different delivery method for CBD and would like to know how it worked.


I'm not in a state where it's legal to have even for medical purposes. 

However, it causes me to feel like I can't breath, extreme paranoia, can't sleep, can't function just basically all around reactions that most people in a million years would ever get. I only take Kratom to help releave the constant pain and muscle spasm I have from my weightlifting accident.

----------


## CrossOps

Understood. I know there are a few state that have specific rules about CBD. When you took CBD did you get dry mouth? Abdominal pain? Diarrhea?

----------


## TheRoof

Chiming in to deliver the 'Kratom Bible'. Has tons of great info, just make sure you have adequate time!


...well it wouldn't let me post the link. Simply search 'The Kratom Bible'

----------


## Cupid

I have used Kratom.

I used to be an opiate addict (specifically Vicodin).

Kratom lightly stimulates your opiate receptors. You will get a little high. It does have addiction potential, especially for someone with previous history of painkiller addiction. It is definitely less addictive, but its still there. For me, when I went on it for a month straight, the withdrawals were about 2-3 days long. Much easier to wean off it. It will definitely help with pain and mood to a certain extent. 

At the end of the day, it is a drug, and with come with all the same positives and negatives of other opiate drugs, just a little milder in both directions.

----------


## MuscleScience

Little update, 

I am thankful Kratom hasn't got band. I had a very bad flare up 
Of my back. One of the worst I have had. Luckily I have been able to control 
The pain and muscle spasm almost 100%. I haven't even refilled my OxyContin prescription in 6 months at least. In the past I would be suffering all day, took a pill when I got home and be a waste of my night. Now I make myself a tea drink, wait 30 min then walk/run to the gym and get one in. This would have been unthinkable 6-8 months ago.

----------


## almostgone

> Little update, 
> 
> I am thankful Kratom hasn't got band. I had a very bad flare up 
> Of my back. One of the worst I have had. Luckily I have been able to control 
> The pain and muscle spasm almost 100%. I haven't even refilled my OxyContin prescription in 6 months at least. In the past I would be suffering all day, took a pill when I got home and be a waste of my night. Now I make myself a tea drink, wait 30 min then walk/run to the gym and get one in. This would have been unthinkable 6-8 months ago.


That's excellent, MuscleSci!  :Smilie:  I also occasionally struggle with spasms of the spinal erectors and it will literally put me to the ground. It has improved somewhat over the past few years, I think regular deep tissue work and stretching has helped somewhat. 
I would much rather resort to Kratom for short periods of time vs. having to take Lortab, Flexeril, and Voltaren for extended periods.

----------


## Scuba Greaves

it can give you an opiate like high at higher doses, and stimulating like buzz at lower doses.

----------


## NACH3

> Its really self limiting in its effects. So chances of a nasty adverse reaction are lower. Having said that, I have a really bad time with Cannabiods. I just can't handle them for some reason. Even though I know many people that do great and don't get what I get.


They've helped me physically, with my anxiety and PTSD... if if doesn't cause paranoia BP to rise etc and if your in the states where more and more states are legalizing it for rec purposes - try it - edibles are more for totally body relief and they can relax you just as well as a Benzodiazpine!

----------


## tarmyg

On the remote chance, anyone knows where I can buy this while in India I am asking here :-) Maybe some suppliers in Indonesia or Thailand?

----------


## tarmyg

NVM, got that sorted. Down to select which strand to use. Any recommendations on that?

----------


## elastica

A little late to this, but I discovered kratom last year and have consumed it regularly ever since. With my chronic issues it has been a godsend to me. I mostly take it preworkout but will once or twice on an off day if my shoulder pain is unbearable.

I like it most for its energizing properties, taking enough to cause sedation causes some unpleasant lag and a slight hangover. I have debilitating chronic fatigue, kratom makes my body feel normal for a little while. It increases my focus and is anxiolytic and antidepressant for me. I would be much less functional without it.

The first few times I took it small doses were enough to cause sedation. I take a single 2.5 g dose nearly every day and haven't encountered tolerance issues. My tendinosis pain disappears, along with whatever other aches and pains I'm having at the time including headaches. 

My go-to strain is White Maeng Da. It's the only white vein I've tried and I like it so much I haven't been inclined to try others. If I'm home for the evening but still have a bunch of stuff to do I like Red Maeng Da. White veins tend to lean more towards stimulating/energizing effects, red towards pain relief/sedation, and Maeng Da in general is usually stimulating. I get great pain relief and stimulation from both the red and white veins, but a slightly different balance between the two.

I like the stimulating properties of Green Malaysian, it's great if I want to dose in the morning and the effects seem to last longer than other strains. I get some pain relief with this one, but not like from the other strains I take. Green Malay gives me pronounced mood uplifting and beneficial cognitive effects.

Red Borneo is another one of my staples. I like this one for when my pain is at its worst, or if I don't have much in the way of obligations because it induces relaxation so well. Excellent pain relief with little to no stimulation from this one. It also works for me in 2.5 g doses.

If you want to consume it as a tea you should add a little acid, like lemon juice, to help with extraction. I just weigh the powder out and swallow it with a sip of something followed by a full glass of liquid, usually coffee. It's a lot easier to get past the taste that way, although it doesn't seem nearly as bad as it used to. I find it works best to always consume on an empty stomach.

----------


## MuscleScience

> A little late to this, but I discovered kratom last year and have consumed it regularly ever since. With my chronic issues it has been a godsend to me. I mostly take it preworkout but will once or twice on an off day if my shoulder pain is unbearable.
> 
> I like it most for its energizing properties, taking enough to cause sedation causes some unpleasant lag and a slight hangover. I have debilitating chronic fatigue, kratom makes my body feel normal for a little while. It increases my focus and is anxiolytic and antidepressant for me. I would be much less functional without it.
> 
> The first few times I took it small doses were enough to cause sedation. I take a single 2.5 g dose nearly every day and haven't encountered tolerance issues. My tendinosis pain disappears, along with whatever other aches and pains I'm having at the time including headaches. 
> 
> My go-to strain is White Maeng Da. It's the only white vein I've tried and I like it so much I haven't been inclined to try others. If I'm home for the evening but still have a bunch of stuff to do I like Red Maeng Da. White veins tend to lean more towards stimulating/energizing effects, red towards pain relief/sedation, and Maeng Da in general is usually stimulating. I get great pain relief and stimulation from both the red and white veins, but a slightly different balance between the two.
> 
> I like the stimulating properties of Green Malaysian, it's great if I want to dose in the morning and the effects seem to last longer than other strains. I get some pain relief with this one, but not like from the other strains I take. Green Malay gives me pronounced mood uplifting and beneficial cognitive effects.
> ...


Great info thanks for posting! It's changed my life for the better. 

Do you ever brew it like a tea. The only side effects I notice is that when I drink the powder is that it gums up my poo and dehydrates me to some extent.

----------


## RaginCajun

> A little late to this, but I discovered kratom last year and have consumed it regularly ever since. With my chronic issues it has been a godsend to me. I mostly take it preworkout but will once or twice on an off day if my shoulder pain is unbearable.
> 
> I like it most for its energizing properties, taking enough to cause sedation causes some unpleasant lag and a slight hangover. I have debilitating chronic fatigue, kratom makes my body feel normal for a little while. It increases my focus and is anxiolytic and antidepressant for me. I would be much less functional without it.
> 
> The first few times I took it small doses were enough to cause sedation. I take a single 2.5 g dose nearly every day and haven't encountered tolerance issues. *My tendinosis pain disappears*, along with whatever other aches and pains I'm having at the time including headaches. 
> 
> My go-to strain is White Maeng Da. It's the only white vein I've tried and I like it so much I haven't been inclined to try others. If I'm home for the evening but still have a bunch of stuff to do I like Red Maeng Da. White veins tend to lean more towards stimulating/energizing effects, red towards pain relief/sedation, and Maeng Da in general is usually stimulating. I get great pain relief and stimulation from both the red and white veins, but a slightly different balance between the two.
> 
> I like the stimulating properties of Green Malaysian, it's great if I want to dose in the morning and the effects seem to last longer than other strains. I get some pain relief with this one, but not like from the other strains I take. Green Malay gives me pronounced mood uplifting and beneficial cognitive effects.
> ...


in bold, that is what i want to try it for.

thanks for your input elastica!

----------


## tarmyg

Ok, I got my order done:

Green Bali 1kg
Green Jawi 500gr (free)
------------
Products 1kg = $35
Shipping to India via EMS= $38
----------
Total amounts $73

Ended up only getting samples, see later post.

----------


## elastica

> Do you ever brew it like a tea. The only side effects I notice is that when I drink the powder is that it gums up my poo and dehydrates me to some extent.


When I first started I always made tea out of it, sometimes in batches large enough to last several days. I think the taste is much worse when having to get down an amount of kratom flavored liquid, as opposed to just downing a spoonful of powder in a single go. I always follow it with a good bit of liquid. I don't have any problem with it messing up my poo but it can be constipating for some people.

----------


## Deal Me In

Can anyone speak about the effects Kratom has on sleep? I'm very fortunate not to have any chronic pain or injuries but suffer from insomnia brought on by anxiety. I hate taking sleeping pills and I'm in constant search for more natural alternatives. Xanax works best for me to sleep but for obvious reasons it isn't a long term solution. 

I know most of you use it for pain relief, but has anyone noticed any benefit to sleep? Or actually just a relaxing feeling? The weird thing is, I don't have stress or anxiety during the day. It's just when I lay down to sleep I can't turn my mind off. I'm not even sure if it's anxiety, just a mind that won't quit. 

Please let me know if anyone has had success in this area.

Thanks guys.

----------


## MuscleScience

> Can anyone speak about the effects Kratom has on sleep? I'm very fortunate not to have any chronic pain or injuries but suffer from insomnia brought on by anxiety. I hate taking sleeping pills and I'm in constant search for more natural alternatives. Xanax works best for me to sleep but for obvious reasons it isn't a long term solution. 
> 
> I know most of you use it for pain relief, but has anyone noticed any benefit to sleep? Or actually just a relaxing feeling? The weird thing is, I don't have stress or anxiety during the day. It's just when I lay down to sleep I can't turn my mind off. I'm not even sure if it's anxiety, just a mind that won't quit. 
> 
> Please let me know if anyone has had success in this area.
> 
> Thanks guys.


It helps my insomnia extremely well. I sleep through the night and very heavily. My problem was falling asleep and when I did, waking up and not being able to go back to sleep. I fall asleep almost immediately and sleep to my alarm. I would try that over xanax or fucking ambian, which is the devil. Lol

----------


## Deal Me In

MS, thanks. That's what I'm looking for. Can you tell me what dose you take to sleep. From what I'm reading it says you need to take a higher dose, 5g or more, to get the sedative effect. Lower doses seem to promote energy. Do you find this to be true? Also, is there any particular strand that is more effective. 

Thanks again.

----------


## tarmyg

Here is an update on what I got. I ordered mine directly from Indonesia and the company has been pretty amazing in communicating, to say the least. Instead of buying it like normal, as I had no idea if it would make customs here in India he sent it to my wife's lab with a complete Material Data Safety Sheet (MSDS) report and I only had to pay shipping for a few samples ($38).

I got 100g of each of the following:

Green Maeng Da
Green Bali
Red Maeng Da
Red Bali
White Maeng Da
White Bali

As it is the first time I am trying this I am going to try the Green Bali. 

I found the following recommendations to try and if anyone disagrees your input would be much appreciated!

Threshold – 1.5 grams
Light – 2.0 – 2.5 grams
Moderate – 2.5 – 4.0 grams
High – 4.0 – 6.0 grams (Side effects unlikely, but can occur at the higher end)
V. High – 6.0 – 9.0 grams (Side effects significantly more likely)
REF: Bali Kratom: On Effects, Dosage and Properties | Enso Botanicals

Thanks
~t

----------


## almostgone

About all I can offer is at the "very high" dosage, I get a fuzzy/hangover feeling the next day.

----------


## RaginCajun

> Here is an update on what I got. I ordered mine directly from Indonesia and the company has been pretty amazing in communicating, to say the least. Instead of buying it like normal, as I had no idea if it would make customs here in India he sent it to my wife's lab with a complete Material Data Safety Sheet (MSDS) report and I only had to pay shipping for a few samples ($38).
> 
> I got 100g of each of the following:
> 
> Green Maeng Da
> Green Bali
> Red Maeng Da
> Red Bali
> White Maeng Da
> ...


nice update

are you going to update this in your thread in the nutrition/diet section?

and man, sounds like you got one hell of a deal!!!

----------


## tarmyg

> nice update
> 
> are you going to update this in your thread in the nutrition/diet section?
> 
> and man, sounds like you got one hell of a deal!!!


I'll update in my thread and yeah, the guy was very helpful.

----------


## tarmyg

Tried 4 grams of the Green Bali today. You know what it did? Absolutely nothing :-) Going to try another one tomorrow and see what happens.

----------


## almostgone

> Tried 4 grams of the Green Bali today. You know what it did? Absolutely nothing :-) Going to try another one tomorrow and see what happens.


The lighter doses didn't do much for me in the pain department, tarmyg. Upwards of 6-8 grams did but I felt "blah" the next morning. That might have dissipated with continued use?

----------


## MuscleScience

> The lighter doses didn't do much for me in the pain department, tarmyg. Upwards of 6-8 grams did but I felt "blah" the next morning. That might have dissipated with continued use?


I have been now using it allmost daily for 6months now. The blah feeling goes away over time. I have been going through a lot of unexpected and unfavorable life changes. It has really helped with my anxiety. I start getting a panick attack, I take 6 gram of Kratom and it stops it cold. 

I am not sure how I would get by this past 6 months without it to be honest. I'm not a fan of pharmaceuticals much and know they have their time and place. But this stuff works a million times better that xanax or Ativan without the sides. If a take a xanax a couple days in a row at the lowest dose. I will have the worst retrograde memory loss.

----------


## almostgone

> I have been now using it allmost daily for 6months now. The blah feeling goes away over time. I have been going through a lot of unexpected and unfavorable life changes. It has really helped with my anxiety. I start getting a panick attack, I take 6 gram of Kratom and it stops it cold. 
> 
> I am not sure how I would get by this past 6 months without it to be honest. I'm not a fan of pharmaceuticals much and know they have their time and place. But this stuff works a million times better that xanax or Ativan without the sides. *If a take a xanax a couple days in a row at the lowest dose. I will have the worst retrograde memory loss*.



So that's what does it. I was beginning to think the films in high school were correct and I was smoking up my brain cells back then.  :Wink:

----------


## MuscleScience

> So that's what does it. I was beginning to think the films in high school were correct and I was smoking up my brain cells back then.


That Is a common side effect of all benzodiazepines. Some are much worse than others, although I am not a pharmacist, I don't think there is a way to combat that particular side.

----------


## hammerheart

I get slurred speech from low dose stanozolol , I wonder what could happen if I dare to take a benzo..

----------


## RaginCajun

> So that's what does it. I was beginning to think the films in high school were correct and I was smoking up my brain cells back then.


we use to call the bars eraser pills!

haha!

----------


## tarmyg

This morning I tried a different kind, Green Maeng Da, same experience as previous, nothing happened. Going to try a White one next. After that, I'll try higher dosages.

----------


## MuscleScience

> This morning I tried a different kind, Green Maeng Da, same experience as previous, nothing happened. Going to try a White one next. After that, I'll try higher dosages.


If you have took any amount of opioids before. Low doses below 6g probably won't have much effect.

----------


## tarmyg

> If you have took any amount of opioids before. Low doses below 6g probably won't have much effect.


Never taken opioids, though. Strongest I ever took was Ibuprofen.

----------


## tarmyg

Just took about 8g of White Bali, let's see what happens!

----------


## tarmyg

White Bali at 8g did nothing except make me a bit lightheaded for about 20 minutes.

----------


## tarmyg

3 days of Kratom and I am holding 4 lb of water all of a sudden. Anyone experience this?

----------


## MuscleScience

> 3 days of Kratom and I am holding 4 lb of water all of a sudden. Anyone experience this?


No, it dries me out. 

Are you taking it on an empty stomach? If not, or seriously affects absorption.

----------


## Deal Me In

I'm having the same experience. I ordered a "sample pack" and got 1oz of 7 different types. I hade to take what I consider a large dose, 6-8g to notice anything. 

My biggest problem is the inconsistency of the effects. One day, 7g will have a very relaxing feeling and the next day, not so much. Of the seven different strands I tried none had an energizing effect. All where either relaxing or no effect. I did notice going over 9g had a very negative effect. Hangover the next day, and in one case, severe diarrhea.

I'm still playing around with it but for me it seems really hard to dose. If you can get the dose and strain right it seems to work as advertised. But finding that sweet spot seems to be difficult. I'm not sure how much money I want to dump into this to find it.

Further, I can't report on the pain killing aspect which seems to be what everyone is interested in. I'm very lucky to not have any chronic pain after a lifetime of collision sports. My wife has chronic pain in her hands from work and I wanted to give it to her to try but I won't until I get all the dose and strain nonsense worked out.

If I figure it out I will let everyone know. Thanks to everyone who has participated in this thread so far. You have helped me a lot. I really think this can be a useful compound if you can get the strain and dose right.

----------


## tarmyg

Taking a few day off trying this and "happy" to see I am not the only one having a problem.

----------


## tarmyg

Took 5-6g of Red Bali last night. Told my wife that is I act funny it's nothing to worry about. 10 minutes later she said I looked "purple". Yeah, the jokes did not get any better after that ;-)

Conclusion. I felt pretty much nothing. Got two more batches to try. Let's see how that goes then back to the first one and double dosage. After that, if nothing, I will skip Kratom for now.

----------


## MuscleScience

> Took 5-6g of Red Bali last night. Told my wife that is I act funny it's nothing to worry about. 10 minutes later she said I looked "purple". Yeah, the jokes did not get any better after that ;-)
> 
> Conclusion. I felt pretty much nothing. Got two more batches to try. Let's see how that goes then back to the first one and double dosage. After that, if nothing, I will skip Kratom for now.


I'm telling you, 9-12g is where it's at...lol

----------


## tarmyg

This will be my last Kratom update.

This morning I was out of Ibuprofen and figured Kratom was worth one last shot so I added 12g of Green Bali into my Guava juice. About 15 minutes later I started feeling a bit light-headed and pupils shrank up. Started feeling like I was drunk honestly. Still, headed out to CrossFit. After arriving I was extremely sleepy, around 9 AM, and sat down in one of our leather chairs. 2.5h later I woke up and everyone was done working out. They told me they tried waking me up several times and considered calling an ambulance. I was sleeping with top volume playing, barbells dropped from overhead with 220 lbs on them so I must have been pretty out of it. Still not Ok and it has been about 7h since I took it.

This will be my last interaction with Kratom I think :-)

----------


## MuscleScience

> This will be my last Kratom update.
> 
> This morning I was out of Ibuprofen and figured Kratom was worth one last shot so I added 12g of Green Bali into my Guava juice. About 15 minutes later I started feeling a bit light-headed and pupils shrank up. Started feeling like I was drunk honestly. Still, headed out to CrossFit. After arriving I was extremely sleepy, around 9 AM, and sat down in one of our leather chairs. 2.5h later I woke up and everyone was done working out. They told me they tried waking me up several times and considered calling an ambulance. I was sleeping with top volume playing, barbells dropped from overhead with 220 lbs on them so I must have been pretty out of it. Still not Ok and it has been about 7h since I took it.
> 
> This will be my last interaction with Kratom I think :-)


Yikes! You only take that much if your going to bed. Or are in a ton of pain and don't have much going on.

----------


## MuscleScience

Little update, 

I ran out of Kratom for 4 days. I forgot to reorder it online, its way to expensive to buy it locally. By day 4 my back was in knots like before I first started using it. I finally broke down and bought some locally. I just can't believe how I lived 
With my back knotted up like it gets. The great thing is I haven't filled my order for pain killers and muscle relaxers for almost a year now.

----------


## hammerheart

How does the anxiolytic mechanism of this kratom work?

Tried xanax to relax lately but experienced "paradox" reactions - was planning a deep, long sleep but spent the night sweating with a racing heart and nightmares all along.

----------


## MuscleScience

> How does the anxiolytic mechanism of this kratom work?
> 
> Tried xanax to relax lately but experienced "paradox" reactions - was planning a deep, long sleep but spent the night sweating with a racing heart and nightmares all along.


Works amazingly well for that, probably as good as xanax.

----------


## Fiskevatten

Damn, exciting read!
I live in Thailand and have never heard of it, and I've tried pretty much everything there is.
My girl tho got surprised I didn't know abt Kratom.

Seems to be a big market on this as well and the legal state seem to go up and down every year all over.
Will see what I can get my hands on through my contacts.
Green Maeng Da and Green Malay seems to be highly appreciated in Europe.

Does it have any benefits without the drug classed substance inside?

----------


## Tragoth

> How does the anxiolytic mechanism of this kratom work?
> 
> Tried xanax to relax lately but experienced "paradox" reactions - was planning a deep, long sleep but spent the night sweating with a racing heart and nightmares all along.


Mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine, the two alkaloids mainly responsible for the effects of kratom, are selective and full agonists of the ?-subtype opioid receptor (MOR). The receptor agonist effect of kratom alkaloids is antagonised by the opioid receptor antagonist naloxone.

----------


## MuscleScience

Anyone got a good supplier they trust. Mine went MIA :-(

----------


## tarmyg

> Anyone got a good supplier they trust. Mine went MIA :-(


This is the guy who sent me samples of 6 different varieties that I did not pay more than $15 for just so I could try it. Was a great experience overall.

Buminesia - Finest Quality, Finest Remedy

----------


## MuscleScience

Bump,

----------


## JoeSvhmoe

Great for pain, gives good energy as well. Different doses do different things. 5-7 grams good for pain. I believe 7-13 for energy .. green meng da works the best imo

----------


## Ashop

If you can find it you may want to stock up on it. Getting harder to find in some areas.

----------


## Bonaparte

I stick to Green Maeng Da and no more than 5g/1 Tbsp daily (usually divided into 2 or 3 doses). You can still find it online for $60-70/kilo.

----------


## KINGKONG

Love kratom, is that a surprise lol
It's a great pain reliever I try to only take as needed..it's a lot stronger then OTC pain killers it's like natural opiate,.

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## The road

I used it a bit. 
Then I overdosed it. 
Compared to oxy's it was the worst opiate sickness I ever had. It lasted days. I would vomit if I smelled it now. 
It absolutely works. Just be careful how you dose it. They say you cant hurt yourself with it but after two days over standing over a sink with saliva pouring out and shaking, I question that. 
It was God awful. I have an addictive personality but that sickness steered me right away from it. I dont think I could touch oxys either now. That feeling just ain't the same since that horrible experience. 

I did use it for some time at lower dosages and was on cloud nine all day. Much more compassionate and considerate.

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## Bonaparte

> I used it a bit. 
> Then I overdosed it. 
> Compared to oxy's it was the worst opiate sickness I ever had. It lasted days. I would vomit if I smelled it now. 
> It absolutely works. Just be careful how you dose it. They say you cant hurt yourself with it but after two days over standing over a sink with saliva pouring out and shaking, I question that. 
> It was God awful. I have an addictive personality but that sickness steered me right away from it. I dont think I could touch oxys either now. That feeling just ain't the same since that horrible experience. 
> 
> I did use it for some time at lower dosages and was on cloud nine all day. Much more compassionate and considerate.


How much did you take when you overdosed on it? And what strain was it?

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## The road

> How much did you take when you overdosed on it? And what strain was it?


Yellow vein and it was tablesppon after tablespoon. 
No idea but half a bag. 
I was seeking a high to escape and I got a reality I couldnt face.

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## Windex

I gave it 4 attempts across 2 different brands before I gave up. The taste was so putrid, makes those green powders taste like chocolate milkshakes by comparison. I tried mixing with juice, milk, tea, even taking it by the spoonful and chasing with a liquid.

Eventually just got my medical cannibis card and now order CBD oil instead en mass.

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## KINGKONG

> I gave it 4 attempts across 2 different brands before I gave up. The taste was so putrid, makes those green powders taste like chocolate milkshakes by comparison. I tried mixing with juice, milk, tea, even taking it by the spoonful and chasing with a liquid.
> 
> Eventually just got my medical cannibis card and now order CBD oil instead en mass.


Lol Yeah it's bad bad bad 
I bought a capsule maker from amazon think it was 20 bucks ..A 00 capsule fits 1/2 gram or so, it makes 100 fairly quickly, maybe 2-3 minutes..
Well worth the price..think it even came with empty capsules, or throw it cheap instant coffee maker and brew it through twice..it gets most of the active ingredient..say your eating 10 grams, throw 12 in..use a tablespoon of honey or fake sugar to take away the bitter edge and , it's not that bad!

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## White Lotus

Been thinking of giving this a try, there's a shop literally right next door to my gym.
I've had shoulder pain flair-ups for years (partially torn rotator cuff), I will post results.

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## Oliver47

Kratom works, but keep in mind that you will be building tolerance is a huge problem in Kratom use. Addiction and building tolerance for ANY substance is a formula for disaster, a nightmare scenario.

Better try CBD. Some CBD oil was given to me last year and I tried it. It seemed to help a little with my energy level, chronic pain, and mental/emotional balance. Better go for the most potent CBD products than for Kratom

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## Bonaparte

> Kratom works, but keep in mind that you will be building tolerance is a huge problem in Kratom use. Addiction and building tolerance for ANY substance is a formula for disaster, a nightmare scenario.
> 
> Better try CBD. Some CBD oil was given to me last year and I tried it. It seemed to help a little with my energy level, chronic pain, and mental/emotional balance. Better go for the most potent CBD products than for Kratom


I use kratom during the day for energy, and CBD at night for more restful sleep.
The key with Kratom is to not increase your dose as you develop a tolerance. Just realize that it isn't going to be as intense as when you first used it, and take breaks from it when you can.
Even then, you don't develop a tolerance to kratom nearly as fast as actual opiates.

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## C27H40O3

Did anyone ever get this shit dialed in right yet?

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## Dash Bronson

> Did anyone ever get this shit dialed in right yet?


Ive got this shit dialed in. #1 there is a huge difference with quality across different vendors. The BEST and ONLY vendors I buy from are- 

#1 Happy Hippo - Packaging is Gay AF but product is Best out there. 
#2 Christopher's Organic Botanical 
#3 Pharmacy Dropout 

In that order, there is simply no one else worth ordering from. Som others are good but these 3 are always consistently excellent.

Best strains - Hyper Hippo (green Mangda) - For energy workout, cleaning, working, getting shit done - I take this in AM
Magic Hippo - For chilling relaxing helping to sleep or take stress off - This in PM

Most people fuck up the dose. All these dopes ordering gas station Kratom and taking 12grams is just insane and dangerous. Kratom does not get better the more you dose, it makes you sick and feel awful if you take too much.

SO if you have a quality product your going to start with NO MORE than 2Grams of the Hippo stuff, id recommend 1.5g as the sweet spot for best effect. THATS IT! More = Worse. Now if you have a tolerance or your very heavy you can increase slightly. For Example im 180lbs I take 1.3g in the am, to get me wired (better than coffee). and I take 2g red at night to help me sleep and it always works. Thats it and ive taken it for over a year. This keeps my tolerance low, I can stop taking it anytime without side effects and its the more enjoyable dose to keep it low in the 2g range. If you stick to a schedule and you weight your dose, than tolerance will not become an issue for you. I haven't built a tolerance in a year because I measure, and im consistent. The people who abuse it are just dopes buying garbage quality and taking huge doses because its junk and they feel shitty and blow up a tolerance with it.

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## jasc

I just came across a documentary on it last night, Leaf Of Faith, on Netflix. It's made by the same guy who made Bigger, Faster, Stronger. It's worth a watch if you have time. 

I know this post is a blast from the past, but figured I'd add that in for anyone looking for solid info. 

Personally I've used it for a while and really like it. 2 grams gives a nice boost with no side effects, in my experience.

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## ascendant

I don't have the time to read all the other posts here, but I will say that kratom is potentially worse than opiates. The problem is that with opiates, people are at least aware how addictive they can be and are at least somewhat aware what they are getting themselves into when they use them. Kratom has the same effects, only a lot of people take it thinking since it's "natural," it's safer. It isn't. I know personally. Used it as an anti-depressant for a year and a half. Coming off it was the second worst experience I ever had in my life. Pain, depression, anhedonia, and MUCH more for months. It was a nightmare.

With that said, IF people are aware and use it in moderation, it's recreational use is relatively safe. The problem is when people start using it daily, unaware of how addictive it is.

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## Madcox

Been taking Kratom for about 6 - 8 years now... I used to take it everyday all day however it slowed my thyroid so instead of taking the thyroid meds like Dr. wanted I stopped taking the kratom for a month while taking ashwaghanda and when I retested my thyroid numbers were back in the normal range... Now I take half teaspoon first thing in the morning mixed in with my morning coffee and that is all I take daily... My coffee is strong black and bitter anyway so kratom doesn't really make it taste any worse  :Smilie:  I take the Horned Kratom btw...

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## soundousrelay

You should use CBDA Isolate if you want to experience all CBD's benefits. This isolate contains 99% pure cannabidiol acid (CBDa). It is also non-psychoactive and does not contain THC, so you can be sure you are not breaking any laws. Manufacturers extract this compound using organic ethanol with the CO2 extraction method. This step guarantees the purity of the final product, allowing it to obtain maximum concentration from raw material. Also, finding CBDA for sale is not difficult, and the price is reasonable.

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## Booz

Omg!

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