# GENERAL FORUM > IN THE NEWS >  G.W.Bush admitts explosives were used in 911 WTC demolitions

## humungus88

Call it what you will, but the gov. is finally admitting 5 years later what eye-whitnesses experienced first hand.
http://www.supportthetruth.com/hill.php

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## QuieTSToRM33

dont post the left wing bullshit here ............. this is nothing but another "911 conspiracy" promotion .............. take this shit somewhere else

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## 63190

Cool. I'll vote for him if he's on my ballot.

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## humungus88

Im not left wing. I'm not right wing, but do you remember how the use of explosives was denied completely by the government?
There you have it. President Bush had admitted what the eyewitnesses reported on 9-11; that there were bombs inside the World Trade Towers. 

Of course, Bush pins the blame for the bombs on Al Qaeda, which is sort of accurate when you consider that most of Al Qaeda is a creation of US and Israeli intelligence. 

But in trying to explain away the eyewitness reports of bombs, Bush has dug himself into a deeper logic hole. How did these "Al Qaeda" bombers manage to spend at least a week (according to witnesses who heard and saw them) working inside the buildings under the noses of Bush's cousin and brother, who were in charge of security for the World Trade Center? Security at the towers was tight following the 1993 attempted bombing. You could not simply walk into an elevator unless you could document employment or a meeting. Yet as one can tell from the tell-tale marks left by the cutter charges, these preparations took a great deal of time and materials to carry out. 

Why did these "Al Qaeda" bombers go to the extra effort to drop all three buildings straight down instead of toppling them sideways, maximizing the damage? 

If Al Qaeda succeeded in bombing the buildings, why bother with the airplanes? Why bother hiding the bombing itself, if it was truly the work of terrorists out to make a statement? 

In admitting the bombs, Bush has opened up the inquiry to include the very great amount of incriminating evidence found near the airplanes linking the attacks to Arab nations, versus the total absence of any such evidence near the bombs. This contrast is ONLY explained if the evidence left with the airplanes was planted, to frame someone. 

Why did it take 5 years for the government to admit what was obvious to everyone right from the start; that explosives were used to bring down the buildings, unless the original plan was not to admit to the bombs in the first place? 

Dubya, in his pathetic attempt to pin the blame for the now-admitted bombs on Al Qaeda, has created far more logical problems then he has solved. I support no-one affiliated with Neo-cons or a leftist/marxist point of veiw.

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## lucabratzi

i dont get it...

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## humungus88

> Cool. I'll vote for him if he's on my ballot.


Thats cool? 3000 American's murdered for a war in the middle east? Plus more slaughtered and crippled in battle?

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## UpstateTank

this has always intrigued me...Quite frankly i think there is a lot not being told about 9/11 (do you honestly believe the plane was brought down by passengers in PA, or do you believe a commercial airliner crashed into the pentagon when no evidence of one could be found?)...I saw an excellent documentary about all the things that dont add up or make sense...I'll try and find the link in a lil bit. The explosions were one of the main points documented in the video. 

I'm not going to take one side over another but I feel an important aspect of being a citizen of the US is not taking everything your government tells you to be the absolute truth. Questioning things our government says about certain events is part of our basic freedoms, and is one that should not be taken for granted.

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## humungus88

> this has always intrigued me...Quite frankly i think there is a lot not being told about 9/11 (do you honestly believe the plane was brought down by passengers in PA, or do you believe a commercial airliner crashed into the pentagon when no evidence of one could be found?)...I saw an excellent documentary about all the things that dont add up or make sense...I'll try and find the link in a lil bit. The explosions were one of the main points documented in the video. 
> 
> I'm not going to take one side over another but I feel an important aspect of being a citizen of the US is not taking everything your government tells you to be the absolute truth. Questioning things our government says about certain events is part of our basic freedoms, and is one that should not be taken for granted.


Too many coincidences
That George Bush's brother Marvin sat on the board of the Kuwaiti-owned company which provided electronic security to the World Trade Centre, Dulles Airport and United Airlines means nothing more than you must admit those Bush boys have done "alright" for themselves.

That Jonathan Bushs Riggs Bank has been found guilty of laundering terrorist funds and fined a US-record $25 million must embarrass his nephew George, but it's still no justification for leaping to paranoid conclusions.

That George Bush found success as a businessman only after the investment of Osamas brother Salem and reputed al Qaeda financier Khalid bin Mahfouz is just 'one of those things' - one of those crazy things.

That Osama bin Laden is known to have been an asset of US foreign policy in no way implies he still is.

That al Qaeda was active in the Balkan conflict, fighting on the same side as the US as recently as 1999, while the US protected its cells, is merely one of history's little aberrations.

The claims of Michael Springman, State Department veteran of the Jeddah visa bureau, that the CIA ran the office and issued visas to al Qaeda members so they could receive training in the United States, sound like the sour grapes of someone who was fired for making such wild accusations.

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## Kale

Sigh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How does anyone blow up a building that size and hide it ? Just watch what they have to do to blow up buildings, miles of cabling, drilling of holes etc . Complete bullshit

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## humungus88

> Sigh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How does anyone blow up a building that size and hide it ? Just watch what they have to do to blow up buildings, miles of cabling, drilling of holes etc . Complete bullshit


Bullshit on you, people reported strange workers in the building for weeks. how do you explain the power down called for by the port authority/ also controlled by the bush brother's!! You want the evidence? you want to call me bullshit??

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## humungus88

Zero radiation tactical hydrogen nuke used to blow the core/ which explains the pools of molten steel, and the fallout from the collapse.

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## BajanBastard

:Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  


> Zero radiation tactical hydrogen nuke used to blow the core/ which explains the pools of molten steel, and the fallout from the collapse.

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## humungus88

> 


Furniture and airplane fire did that^^^LOL

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## Ya Dig?

> Sigh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How does anyone blow up a building that size and hide it ? Just watch what they have to do to blow up buildings, miles of cabling, drilling of holes etc . Complete bullshit



lets not forget about the 2 giant airplanes that also hit the buildings..it wasnt only bombs

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## NYGIANTS21

It does make you think though..

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## humungus88

> It does make you think though..


http://educate-yourself.org/cn/coinc...e15aug04.shtml

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## notorious_mem

i totally agree with you way too much thats not explained.Did you see how much was edited out of the 9-11 reports.If u dont have nothing too hide why edit out 65% of the document.I know.conspiracy,conspiracy,conspiracy.lol

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## humungus88

> i totally agree with you way too much thats not explained.Did you see how much was edited out of the 9-11 reports.If u dont have nothing too hide why edit out 65% of the document.I know.conspiracy,conspiracy,conspiracy.lol


The real conspiracy is the official story friend, The ZOG empire that controlls this country, and foreign affairs i s beginning to crumble!! :7up:   :1laugh:

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## BG

The movie Loose Change explains it all, google it and watch it you'll understand whats going on.

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## BG

Our country needs war in order for us to keep building our army. China spends 2/3's of their national income on their army, if we dont have war we cut Army funding. Loose Change explains it.

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## BG

Fuc I dont know how to make a link.

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=7866929448192753501&hl=en" flashvars=""> </embed>

Cut and paste this , it goes right to the video.

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## humungus88

> Our country needs war in order for us to keep building our army. China spends 2/3's of their national income on their army, if we dont have war we cut Army funding. Loose Change explains it.


Yes my friend, but LOOSE CHANGE does not explain how "LUCKY LARRY SILVERSTIEN" took out a $7,000,000,000 insurance policy aginst terrorist acts 2 moths before 911, or explain how both towers needed dismantling to rid them of azbestos and other building hazzards, dismantling would cost a proposed $12,000,000,000.

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## BG

> Yes my friend, but LOOSE CHANGE does not explain how "LUCKY LARRY SILVERSTIEN" took out a $7,000,000,000 insurance policy aginst terrorist acts 2 moths before 911, or explain how both towers needed dismantling to rid them of azbestos and other building hazzards, dismantling would cost a proposed $12,000,000,000.


He was in on it.Dont you think if they didnt cover him he would make such a big stink??? He would have lost his ass.

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## notorious_mem

> The real conspiracy is the official story friend, The ZOG empire that controlls this country, and foreign affairs i s beginning to crumble!!


u laughing at me?I was agreeing

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## humungus88

> u laughing at me?I was agreeing


not really, I laugh at no one, considering our gov. murdered 3000 people in our own country!!! THEY WILL HANG FOR THIS!!!

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## notorious_mem

> not really, I laugh at no one, considering our gov. murdered 3000 people in our own country!!! THEY WILL HANG FOR THIS!!!


your kinda scaring me now.lol

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## spywizard

and the news story is?????

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## Ufa

Crack Heads theory! Straight from Utah! Can't believe any one would
even entertain such BS>

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## Ufa

Crack Heads theory! Straight from Utah! Can't believe any one would
even entertain such BS>

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## humungus88

> and the news story is?????


LISTEN TO THIS..........
http://www.supportthetruth.com/hill.php
REMEMBER, JET FUEL BROUGHT DOWN WTC IN A PANCAKE COLLAPSE THAT DEFIED ALL PHYSICS!!

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## humungus88

> Crack Heads theory! Straight from Utah! Can't believe any one would
> even entertain such BS>


You want to debate it "crackhead?"
than shut up!! and listen to our president!!

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## humungus88

> Crack Heads theory! Straight from Utah! Can't believe any one would
> even entertain such BS>


Quote:
Deal of the Year: World Trade Center, New York, NY 

'Weighing in at $3.2 billion, the acquisition of the 99-year leasehold of the World Trade Center was the largest of the year. "Notwithstanding the emotional difficulty of celebrating anything related to the World Trade Center is the fact that upon completion of its acquisition by Larry Silverstein, it was clearly the deal of the year for the industry, and now more than ever, a deal of [a] lifetime for Silverstein" said Ken Zakin, managing director at Insignia/ESG.'
Quote:
WTC Owner May Make a
Huge Profit off of 9/11 Attacks
Six months before the attacks on the World Trade Center, the World Trade Center was "privatized" by being leased to a private sector developer. The lease was purchased by the Silverstein Group for $3.2 billion. 
But the World Trade Towers were not the real estate plum Silverstein Group might have been led to believe. The towers required some $200 million in renovations and improvements, most of which related to removal and replacement of building materials declared to be health hazards in the years since the towers were built. Other New York developers had been driven into bankruptcy by the costly mandated renovations, and $200 million represented an entire year's worth of revenues from the World Trade Towers. 

The attacks on 9/11 changed the picture. Instead of renovation, Silverstein is rebuilding, funded by the insurance coverage on the property which 'fortuitously' covered acts of terrorism. Even better, Silverstein filed TWO insurance claims for the maximum amount of the policy, based on the two, in Silverstein's view, seperate attacks. The total potential payout is $7.1 billion, more than enough to build a fabulous new complex and leave a hefty profit for the Silverstein Group, including Larry Silverstein himself.

As reported in The Washington Post, the insurance company, Swiss Re, has gone to court to argue that the 9/11 disaster was only one attack, not two and that therefore the insurance payout should be limited to $3.55 billion, still enough to rebuild the complex. 

The destruction of the World Trade Towers may make Silverstein one of the wealthiest men alive.

Quote:
Israeli magnate insured WTC retail space against terrorism

An Israeli businessman from Australia, Frank Lowy, had recently acquired the 99-year lease for the 425,000 square foot retail portion of World Trade Center before the WTC attacks of Sept. 11, reported The Jerusalem Post on Sept. 12.

Lowy is chairman and founder of Westfield Holdings, and the manager of Westfield America Trust, which has a 57 percent stake in Westfield America Inc. In April 2001, Westfield America agreed to pay $400 million for the lease on the complex though only $133 million was paid; the rest was to be made in ground lease payments.

Westfield was insured against terrorist attacks and its earnings will not be materially affected. 

In a statement to the Australian Stock Exchange the retail chain said that "investment in the retail component of the World Trade Center is fully insured for both capital and loss of income," adding "the insurance coverage includes acts of terrorism".
Quote:
THE WORLD TRADE CENTER: OBSOLETE AND PLAGUED WITH PROBLEMS
Those who thought the World Trade Center comprised some of New York's most desirable office space may have been mistaken. 

In "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man," author John Perkins reflects on a walk he took through lower Manhattan shortly after 9/11: 

"I recalled reading that the World Trade Center was a project started by David Rockefeller in 1960, and that in recent years the complex had been considered an ALBATROSS. It had the reputation of being A FINANCIAL MISFIT, unsuited to modern fiber-optic and Internet technologies, and burdened with an inefficient and costly elevator system. Those two towers once had been nicknamed David and Nelson. Now the albatross was gone." [3] [with emphasis added] 

More detail comes from Rowland Morgan and Ian Henshall in their new book, "9/11 Revealed": 

"The WTC began in disaster, just as it ended. A grossly misconceived Soviet-style land-development catastrophe...[it] was OBSOLETE LONG BEFORE IT WAS FINISHED. ...The oversized...site destroyed swathes of human-scale streetscape...the towers...stole light from buildings all across Manhattan. Their exterior-frame structure maximized interior space while minimizing views and making office workers depressed [the windows were barely wider than the 16"-wide steel exterior columns]. Space-saving on elevators that involved two changes up and down made for lengthy journey times. ...It would take a full two hours to evacuate everybody in a fire." [4] [with emphasis added] 

Morgan and Henshall go on to note that BY 2001, MUCH OF THE TOWERS' OFFICE SPACE WAS EMPTY. The towers were due for a "mid-life rehab," but building codes would have REQUIRED REMOVAL OF THE ASBESTOS FIREPROOFING lining the towers' ceilings and steel framework. According to Morgan and Henshall, "Such a job would have been unrealistically expensive and physically impractical, with no gain in [rental] revenues." [5] [with emphasis added] 

(In spite of these problems, it's worth remembering that given the proximity of major airports, the towers were DESIGNED TO WITHSTAND THE CRASH OF A FULLY LOADED, FUEL-FILLED BOEING 707--a large, four-engine airliner. This has been reported in numerous books and articles
Quote:
A LENGTHY, PRE-9/11 LEGAL BATTLE OVER THE WTC'S ASBESTOS PROBLEMS
The WTC's original owner, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, had been concerned about asbestos-abatement issues for many years prior to 9/11. 
According to Karl Schwarz [6] and other writers, the Port Authority in 1991 filed suit in U.S. District Court against insurers in the hope of recovering funds to help pay for needed asbestos-abatement work at the WTC and one of the region's airports. In the suit, "Port Authority of NY vs. Affiliated FM Insurance Co.," the Port Authority sought between 500 million and 1 billion dollars from the insurers. 

Note that this suit was filed TWO YEARS BEFORE the first so-called "terrorist attack" on the WTC; the truck-bomb explosion in the Center's underground parking garage in 1993. 

Schwarz reports that the U.S. District Court judge ruled against the Port Authority as of May 14, 2001. 

Less than three months later, the Port Authority transferred ownership of the WTC buildings to private investors
Quote:
THE WTC'S CHANGE TO PRIVATE OWNERSHIP--JUST WEEKS BEFORE 9/11
On July 24, 2001, private investors (Silverstein Properties, with minority partner Westfield America, Inc.) took control of the WTC under a 99-year lease. 

In "Waking Up From Our Nightmare," Paul and Hoffman note that the WTC's estimated value at the time was 8 billion dollars. [8] 

According to professor of economics Michel Chossudovsky, the lease called for payments to the Port Authority "amounting to 3.2 billion dollars in installments" payable over 99 years. With several hundred million dollars being provided by mortgage holders, Mr. Silverstein put just 14 million dollars of his own money into the deal. [9] 

Quoting from a May 20, 2002 article in The New Yorker, Chossudovsky notes that "Explicity included in the [lease] agreement was that Silverstein and Westfield 'WERE GIVEN THE RIGHT TO REBUILD THE STRUCTURES IF THEY WERE DESTROYED.' " [9] [with emphasis added] 

Paul and Hoffman add that "Quoting the British Financial Times of September 14, 2001, the American Reporter wrote that 'THE LEASE HAS AN ALL-IMPORTANT ESCAPE CLAUSE: IF THE BUILDINGS ARE STRUCK BY "AN ACT OF TERRORISM," THE NEW OWNERS' OBLIGATIONS UNDER THE LEASE ARE VOID. As a result, the new owners are not required to make any payments under their lease, but they will be able to collect on the loss of the buildings...destroyed and damaged in the attacks.' " (The American Reporter's article was titled "No Fraud, but Huge Profits Seen in World Trade Center Attacks.") [8] [with emphasis added] 

It's also reported that Mr. Silverstein is "a large contributor to Democrat and Republican office-holders."
Quote:
HAVE PRIVATE PROFITS BEEN REALIZED IN THE WAKE OF 9/11?
Many writers have addressed this question--and the question of whether insurance companies (and courts) would regard the 9/11 events at the WTC as a single incident or would regard each "attack" on a WTC tower as a separate incident for insurance purposes. 

Paul and Hoffman report that as of 2004, "Silverstein Properties [was] still contesting the amount of [insurance] pay-out due for destruction of the Twin Towers--$3.55 billion for one 'occurrence' or $7.1 billion for two 'occurrences.' " [8] 

A March 28, 2006 "Reader Rant" posting at http://www.capitolhillblue.com/ offers the following update, quoting from press reports: "In late 2004, [Mr. Silverstein was] tentatively awarded $2.2 billion, double what insurance companies offered to pay him. (UPI, 12/6/04) A judge also [made] a ruling that keeps open the possibility [Silverstein] could eventually receive as much as $6.4 billion. (Associated Press, 12/7/04)." [10] 

As for Building 7, Paul and Hoffman note that unlike the rest of the WTC, this building was originally developed by Silverstein Properties, and Silverstein Properties was its leaseholder as of 9/11. They write that "About $386 million had been invested in WTC7 before its destruction," and that Silverstein Properties and Building 7's mortgage holders "received a court-awarded amount of $861 million dollars from Industrial Risk Insurers in February 2002." [8]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusions:

See it from the perspective of Mr. Silverstein, there were 2 (or better 3) options for him:

1. Renovate and fix the problems with Tower 1 +2, store by store, which would be extremely difficult, costly and long lasting...beside that customers
would be bothered for years with ongoing "dirty" construction work in the buildings. 
And if you hammer and drill in such a building, think of the clouds of asbestos
that would be set free, possibly followed by an unprecendet number of individual lawsuits against the owner and the Port Auhority.
A "Garden Eden" so to say for "environment- and health- lawyers", maybe thousand of lawsuits , as it is in the financial district of NYC, many would use that oppurtunity to sue him on millions.

2."Urban renewal" by bringing the towers down. An "Expertise" of this was done in 1999 by the specialist "Controlled Demolition Inc" , contracted by the
Port Authority (Mr.Eisenberg) , on "how it could be done without harming
neighbouring buildings too much", confirmed by "Controlled Demolition" CEO
J. Mark Loizeaux.
Problem here for the Port Authority: Lawsuits, see above. Millions if not billions
to pay out to individuals , because of the gigantic asbestos-cloud the demolition would produce, and that again in: Manhattan.

3. "Terrorists","Al-Quaeda" and or "Osama bin Laden" would destroy the buildings.
Advantage: same effect as in 2) , minus the lawsuits (Who would in Manhattan sue Osama because of the asbestos cloud?).
Further benefit: The isurance payout would secure a solid financial stock to
reconstruct the site on modern and much more profitable standarts.

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## Ufa

Bush says all sorts of dumb things. You do to!

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## humungus88

> Crack Heads theory! Straight from Utah! Can't believe any one would
> even entertain such BS>


The destruction of the World Trade Towers may make Silverstein one of the wealthiest men alive.

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## humungus88

> Sigh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How does anyone blow up a building that size and hide it ? Just watch what they have to do to blow up buildings, miles of cabling, drilling of holes etc . Complete bullshit


The Ground Zero here is in the original sense of word, a nuclear blast site. The thermal energy may absorb heat at a rate of 10 E 23 ergs / cm2 sec and near the bomb all surfaces may heat to 4000 °C or 7200 °F igniting or vapourizing violently. Source: US Department of Defense & US Department of Energy, Glasstone  Dolan: 'The Effects of Nuclear Weapons' (1980).

The thermonuclear bomb used was a 'pure' hydrogen bomb, so no uranium or plutonium at all. The basic nuclear reaction is Deuterium + Tritium > Alpha + n. The ignition of this is the fine part, either with a powerful beam array or antimatter (a very certain way to get the necessary effect of directed energy in order not to level the adjacent blocks of high-rise buildings, as well).


Orthodox Jewish men were involved: Rabbi Dov Zackheim with Flight Termination Systems and System Planning co. Michael Chertoff who let the Mossad go. Both these men are Orthodox Jews, both were involved in the systems and operations that were likely connected to the WTC's orchestration and collapse.


Observations Suggesting the Use of Small Hydrogen Bombs

1) The concrete pulverized into fine dust, 70300 micron particles (just this could take more energy than the total gravitational energy available).

2) Very energetic  hot  dust after the explosions. (Demolition charges would produce white clouds of dust, which would not move much, and a gravity-driven collapse would produce much less and more coarse dust.) 

3) Brown shades of color seen in the air  these are produced by nuclear reactions of a thermonuclear device. The reactions use (gamma radiation caused by free neutrons, N2, O2, H2O > nitrid acid, NO2, NO3). These clouds soon get their usual white color after some minutes as the heat and fast movement of the clouds cease becoming ordinary clouds with some water. 


4) Superheated steel objects, disintegrating into steel vapour. Molten ponds of steel were found in the elevator shafts. There were lots of burned cars in the parking areas of the towers. The fire department did not announce until 12/19/2001 that the fires under the WTC rubble have been distinguished (more than 3 months after the incident). For more, see
That kind of evidence brings the theory of the planes to a kindergarden level. It also shows that the majority of people's heads are at the same level else they couldn't convince so many with such a childish explanation.

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## humungus88

Marvin P. Bush, the presidents younger brother, was a principal in a company called Securacom that provided security for the World Trade Center, United Airlines, and Dulles International Airport. The company, Burns noted, was backed by KuwAm, a Kuwaiti-American investment firm on whose board Marvin Burns also served. [Utne]

According to its present CEO, Barry McDaniel, the company had an ongoing contract to handle security at the World Trade Center "up to the day the buildings fell down."
The company lists as government clients "the U.S. Army, U.S. Navy, U.S Air force, and the Department of Justice," in projects that "often require state-of-the-art security solutions for classified or high-risk government sites."

Stratesec (Securacom) differs from other security companies which separate the function of consultant from that of service provider. The company defines itself as a "single-source" provider of "end-to-end" security services, including everything from diagnosis of existing systems to hiring subcontractors to installing video and electronic equipment. It also provides armored vehicles and security guards.
The Dulles Internation contract is another matter. Dulles is regarded as "absolutely a sensitive airport," according to security consultant Wayne Black, head of a Florida-based security firm, due to its location, size, and the number of international carriers it serves.

Black has not heard of Stratesec, but responds that for one company to handle security for both airports and airlines is somewhat unusual. It is also delicate for a security firm serving international facilities to be so interlinked with a foreign-owned company: "Somebody knew somebody," he suggested, or the contract would have been more closely scrutinized.

As Black points out, "when you [a company] have a security contract, you know the inner workings of everything." And if another company is linked with the security company, then "What's on your computer is on their computer." [American Reporter]
Heightened WTC Security Alert Had Just Been Lifted

The World Trade Center was destroyed just days after a heightened security alert was lifted at the landmark 110-story towers, security personnel said yesterday [September 11]. Daria Coard, 37, a guard at Tower One, said the security detail had been working 12-hour shifts for the past two weeks because of numerous phone threats. But on Thursday [September 6], bomb-sniffing dogs were abruptly removed. [NY NewsDay]

Pre-9/11 World Trade Center Power-Down

On the weekend of 9/8, 9/9 there was a 'power down' condition in WTC tower 2, the south tower. This power down condition meant there was no electrical supply for approx 36 hrs from floor 50 up... "Of course without power there were no security cameras, no security locks on doors and many, many 'engineers' coming in and out of the tower." [WingTV]

Marvin Bush was in New York on 9/11 :0piss:

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## humungus88

> Bush says all sorts of dumb things. You do to!


In video tapes taken of the so-called collapses of the WTC, more explosions of these cutting charges can be seen. The explosions advance quickly, with a gap of a couple of floors, cutting the strong steel pillars in the outer wall. The explosions are timed so that it appears that the tower collapses occur in the same timing as in a gravitational collapse. The explosions are not completely synchronized in timing, probably a few charges are triggered by radio, and other charges explode out of the impulses of one of these charges (infrared, pressure wave).

More challenging problems to the demolition men, however, were the central cores of the buildings and the 47 steel pillars more robust than the ones on the outer rounds. The pillars of the central cores were made of steel even 100 + 100 mm thick, thicker than the side armours of a battle tank. Cutting those, even with explosives, is extremely difficult. One would need to surround the whole pillars, every single pillar on every floor intended to get blasted, with powerful cutting charges. These charges would have needed to be placed in such a way that the users of the skyscrapers could not notice these preparations.

As seen in the following pictures, the cores of the towers were not distracted by thousands of powerful cutting charges but by a modern thermonuclear explosive, a small hydrogen bomb. In the picture below, a hydrogen bomb explosion, the bomb having been placed in the cellar and directed to the core, has reached the roof of the tower and the upper parts of the outer walls. On its way up the waves of fire pressure partially penetrated about 100 floors of concrete and steel. Over ten million degrees of heat caused by a hydrogen bomb sublimised all water within the concrete in a moment. Water exploded extremely quickly into 1000-fold volume and totally pulverized the concrete. Even people and computers that were in the buildings disappeared turning into heat and light. That is why almost nothing of them was found in the ruins.

Burning radiation is absorbed in steel so quickly that steel heats up immediately over its melting point 1585 °C (approx. 2890 °F) and above its boiling point around 3000 C (approx. 5430 °F). In the pictures down below, super hot groups of steel pillars and columns, torn from wall by pressure wave, are sublimized. They immediately turn into a vaporized form, binding heat as quickly as possible. Bursts upwards, even visible in the picture below, are not possible for a gravitational collapse or for cutting charges which are used horizontally.

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## xlxBigSexyxlx

We need to tie Bush to a nuke and send it over to the middle east.

Then we can get 1 with his daddy and send it over to north korea.

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## humungus88

> We need to tie Bush to a nuke and send it over to the middle east.
> 
> Then we can get 1 with his daddy and send it over to north korea.


Him, Lucky Larry Silverstein, Rudolph Giulianni, Michael Chertoff should be tried for the MURDER of 3000 Americans.

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## xlxBigSexyxlx

> Him, Lucky Larry Silverstein, Rudolph Giulianni, Michael Chertoff should be tried for the MURDER of 3000 Americans.



lol and his daddy.  :Smilie: 

i dont like that guy.

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## xlxBigSexyxlx

government and politics are so corrupt.

its all about self, power, and money.

they dont give 2 shits about the people.

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## UpstateTank

> government and politics are so corrupt.
> 
> its all about self, power, and money.
> 
> they dont give 2 shits about the people.


couldnt have said it better myself bigsexy  :Smilie:

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## humungus88

> government and politics are so corrupt.
> 
> its all about self, power, and money.
> 
> they dont give 2 shits about the people.


Yeah, but it scares me to think who's next?? Me, you? Think of the lot that has had to die in battle for these shits! Or be crippled for life.

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## humungus88

It has been known that governments have permitted terrorist acts against their own people, and have even themselves been perpetrators in order to find strategic advantage, but this is The United States we're talking about!

I could go on and on and on, but I trust you get the point which is simply this:

1. there are no secrets, 
2. an American government would never accept civilian casualties for geostrategic gain, and 
3. conspiracies are for the weak-minded and gullible.

I *am* humunus88, and I do approve this message. :0gulp:

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## perfectbeast2001

there is an episode of South Park that explains all this.

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## Snrf

> It has been known that governments have permitted terrorist acts against their own people, and have even themselves been perpetrators in order to find strategic advantage, but this is The United States we're talking about!




the founding fathers of your country specifically built protections such as the 2nd amendment into your constitution because they knew all governments eventually become corrupt and tyrannical. PEOPLE are the same everywhere.

its happened here in the UK already, our government is fckin tyrannical and they've already taken our guns away.

bastards

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## BG

:LOL:   :LOL:  


> there is an episode of South Park that explains all this.

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## Phreak101

This has been debated before, and about 90 different engineers refuted what you are saying in an article in some popular engineering/physics magazine. I can't remember, however there is a "Loose Change" thread started by myself a couple months back that Johan posted the article on.

ALL this conspiracy nonsense really does seem like bullshit after you read the unanimous conesting opinion of 90 men smarter than all of us when it comes to the engineering and physics of the collapse.

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## humungus88

> 90 different engineers refuted what you are saying in an article in some popular engineering/physics magazine.


http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pm/

Can you name any of the engineers? Neither can Popular Mechanics!

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## humungus88

...PMs senior researcher, 25-year-old Benjamin Chertoff, authored a propagandistic cover story entitled Debunking 9/11 Lies which seeks to discredit independent 9-11 research.
...
And look who the senior researcher for PM is...........BENJAMIN CHERTOFF!!!
Recognize the last name, you should, because he is Michael Chertoff's cousin!! Can you say BIAS!!

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## Kärnfysikern

> Why did these "Al Qaeda" bombers go to the extra effort to drop all three buildings straight down instead of toppling them sideways, maximizing the damage?



basic physics. You cant toppel a building like that, it will drop straight down no matter what.




> Why did it take 5 years for the government to admit what was obvious to everyone right from the start; that explosives were used to bring down the buildings, unless the original plan was not to admit to the bombs in the first place?


Obvious to everyone except all the experts that have examined the event I guess....




> Zero radiation tactical hydrogen nuke used to blow the core/ which explains the pools of molten steel, and the fallout from the collapse.


There is no such thing as a zero radiation tactical hydrogen nuke. To ignite hydrogen fusion you need to achieve several million degres kelvin in a time short enough to not let the hydrogen expand away from the core of the bomb. There is no possible way to do this without a fission trigger(excluding tokamak and laser inertial fusion, instalations that are HUGE) and there is no possible way to make a fission bomb without fallout.

Even if you could ignite a fusion process without the fission trigger it would not be zero radiation since the fusion process itself creates a bombardment of gamma and neutron radiation. Some of the neutrons would be absorbed by the nuclei composing the material in the building and they would in turn get radioactive for a few days or weeks.

Not to mention even the smallest possible nukes would take out a heck of a lot more than just a floor of the tower.

Zero radiation nuke is a fantazy that can not exist in the real world with the real laws of physics. Zero radiation nuke weak enough to just take out a building is so absurdly unrealistic that its laughable.




> The thermonuclear bomb used was a 'pure' hydrogen bomb, so no uranium or plutonium at all. The basic nuclear reaction is Deuterium + Tritium > Alpha + n. The ignition of this is the fine part, either with a powerful beam array or antimatter (a very certain way to get the necessary effect of directed energy in order not to level the adjacent blocks of high-rise buildings, as well).


Are you serious? we can NOT create and store anti matter easily. 
At most we can create a few nanograms at cern that can be stored for a few minutes. Jesus you need to read a bit about real physics. If you dont belive me try to calculate the containment field strenght needed to keep a few micrograms of positrons or anti protons togheter. Neutral anti matter atoms have not yet been produced in large quantities, just a few atoms at a time.

This whole idea about a mini fusion bomb brining down the wtc is probably the absurdest I have heard so far. It even beats the idea that all world leaders are lizzards from outer space.

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## Kärnfysikern

btw the deuterium tritium fusion reaction you qoute require around 40 million kelvin to take place.

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## humungus88

This is a pancake collapse

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## humungus88

Where are the pancaked floors of this 110 story building??

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## humungus88

WTC-North-One is turning to dust from the Top Down, not the Bottom Up. Exactly like WTC-South-Two. The pancake & weight theory should be resulting in the opposite. If the pancake theory were true, the bottoms of the buildings should be turning to dust from the weight crushing down on them, not the top. This building is being blown up with explosives

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## the hulkster

"Get this information out to everone now!"


definetly something everone should see  :Smilie:

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## humungus88

[QUOTE][/Zero radiation nuke is a fantazy that can not exist in the real world with the real laws of physics. Zero radiation nuke weak enough to just take out a building is so absurdly unrealistic that its laughable.

QUOTE]
Hmmmm.lets see :Icon Rolleyes:  


Banberry 10 Kt underground

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## humungus88

compare above pic to these

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## Kärnfysikern

> The ignition of this is the fine part, either with a powerful beam array or antimatter (a very certain way to get the necessary effect of directed energy in order not to level the adjacent blocks of high-rise buildings, as well).


Yeah the beam array I missed that comment. You should do a search on NIF. Or Im going to spare you the troubble. Here are a few pics of the size needed of lasers to create fusion conditions. Did usama tuck that into his back pocket and snuck it into the wtc when no one looked?

These are just the pump sources for the lasers

10 meter target chamber


Please do tell what magical energy source the terrorist beam array had btw to power the lasers. Did they have a portable nuclear reactor with them or maby some alien batteries?

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## Kärnfysikern

> Hmmmm.lets see 
> 
> 
> Banberry 10 Kt underground


why on earth do you think its is zero radiation. BTW that is not even close to beeing a thermonuclear bomb. Its just a small plain old fission bomb exploded in the 70's.

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Tests/Nts.html



> Test: Baneberry 
> Time: 15:30.00.20 18 December 1970 (GMT) 
> Location: NTS, Area 8d 
> Test Height and Type: Shaft, -910 Feet 
> Yield: 10 kt 
> 
> Not all underground tests have successfully contained the radioactive products. In Baneberry, failure of the stemming and capping of the shaft allowed a radioactive jet to emerge. Radioactivity was detected off site (i.e. outside the Nevada Test Site). The release of 80 kilocuries of I-131 was by far the worst accidental release at NTS. This was an LLNL weapon related test. For anyone interested in numerology, this was the 666th U.S. test by official count.

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## humungus88

No the only ones capable are US and Israeli intelligence. Why don't you ask GW Bush's brother Marvin, he was in charge of security for WTC>

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## Kärnfysikern

> This is a pancake collapse


amazing comparison, a pic of a collapsed 5 story building and another of a 3-4 story building. that proves everything.

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## humungus88

> why on earth do you think its is zero radiation. BTW that is not even close to beeing a thermonuclear bomb. Its just a small plain old fission bomb exploded in the 70's.


The technology is here today for mini-H bomb to be installed in the underground floors of WTC1 and 2. How do you explain the pools of molten steel still there after 2 months of clean-up??? Burning furniture?? Or kerosene??

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## Kärnfysikern

> compare above pic to these


you are by your own admission comparinga pic of a underground 10kt fission bomb that release alot of nuclear waste to a collapsing building that just happen to create a cloud with the same shape.

Now please think what a 10kt nuke would have done to everything around WTC. The little boy dropped on hiroshima was 13kt. Last time I checked pics of hiroshima a few more than one building was effected :Hmmmm:  

Looks alot like 9/11 to me

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## Kärnfysikern

> The technology is here today for mini-H bomb to be installed in the underground floors of WTC1 and 2. How do you explain the pools of molten steel still there after 2 months of clean-up??? Burning furniture?? Or kerosene??


No the technology is not here.

to ignite fusion you need TREMENDOUS lasers. The laser instalations are gigantic. Like I said look up national ignition facility. They dont build em that big because they think its fun  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

the second option is magnetic containment like tokamak but there you can not even create a explosion. Heck they cant even make them give out as much energy as they put in and the tokamak they are building right now with the best technology cost 10 billion and will take 5 years to build.

Your idea about anti matter belongs in sci fi. To create anti matter you need a particle accelerator like they have on CERN for instance, to store the anti matter you need tremendous electric fields. The cost of creating anti matter is many billions per microgram even if you could store it. 

So the only option left is a fission trigger. But there is a inherent limit on how small a fission bomb can be. I doubt they can be less than 1kt and one kiloton would have blown away alot more than the WTC.

Your idea has no basis in science. It is pure fantazy.

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## biglouie250

the one thing i really loved about this whole "truth movement" is that they offer tons of theories but no substance. lets see the time cards of security at the WTC that was supposedly given so much time off before 9/11. the put options.....not many people know about a few hedge funds that were jus getting going that week and that is the reason for them.

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## Kärnfysikern

> the one thing i really loved about this whole "truth movement" is that they offer tons of theories but no substance. lets see the time cards of security at the WTC that was supposedly given so much time off before 9/11. the put options.....not many people know about a few hedge funds that were jus getting going that week and that is the reason for them.


Not only that, they claim the experts examining the accident are blind to laws of physics while they at the same time make up shit that make santa sound plausible.

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## Kärnfysikern

This is the size of a ignition laser


This is the size of fuel pellet ignited by it.


We are far far far far far away from beeing able to make a fusion bomb ignited by laser that is portable. Heck we are far far far away from beeing able to even ignite any worthwhile ammount of hydrogen in those gigantic lasers.

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## Phreak101

> No the technology is not here.
> 
> to ignite fusion you need TREMENDOUS lasers. The laser instalations are gigantic. Like I said look up national ignition facility. They dont build em that big because they think its fun 
> 
> the second option is magnetic containment like tokamak but there you can not even create a explosion. Heck they cant even make them give out as much energy as they put in and the tokamak they are building right now with the best technology cost 10 billion and will take 5 years to build.
> 
> Your idea about anti matter belongs in sci fi. To create anti matter you need a particle accelerator like they have on CERN for instance, to store the anti matter you need tremendous electric fields. The cost of creating anti matter is many billions per microgram even if you could store it. 
> 
> So the only option left is a fission trigger. But there is a inherent limit on how small a fission bomb can be. I doubt they can be less than 1kt and one kiloton would have blown away alot more than the WTC.
> ...


Always the voice of reason. Johan I think your AR title should be "AR's Conspiracy Theory Smasher"

Humungus give it up, I tried already, there is just too much evidence against the conspiracy theory. And don't anyone tell me "Loose Change" either, half the "facts" in the documentary are complete bullsh!t.

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## Kärnfysikern

> Always the voice of reason. Johan I think your AR title should be "AR's Conspiracy Theory Smasher"
> 
> Humungus give it up, I tried already, there is just too much evidence against the conspiracy theory. And don't anyone tell me "Loose Change" either, half the "facts" in the documentary are complete bullsh!t.


 :Big Grin:  

I aint touching the conspiracy anymore. People like Steve Jones seems to have semi valid objections to the official story and atleast he has a education(astrophysics). I dont know the first thing about structural engineering so not my cup of tea  :Smilie: 

But this whole miniature zero radiation nuke was just to much. 

I guess bush planted it himself and then used his invisibility ring to sneak out into his flying car, powered on pure water, and then he drove to his secret layer on the moon where his illuminati and freemason buddies are waiting. I mean the military has all that technology stashed away after the roswell crash.
If we are going to throw away all reason we might aswell do it properly :Wink:

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## biglouie250

> Always the voice of reason. Johan I think your AR title should be "AR's Conspiracy Theory Smasher"
> 
> Humungus give it up, I tried already, there is just too much evidence against the conspiracy theory. And don't anyone tell me "Loose Change" either, half the "facts" in the documentary are complete bullsh!t.



agreed. according to them there are 500 americans on those planes that never hit those buildings are being held somewhere.

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## humungus88

> But this whole miniature zero radiation nuke was just to much


http://www.ieer.org/ensec/no-6/fusion.html

Explosive Confinement Fusion (ECF)2 

Fusion reactions release energy when two light nuclei combine. (Fission, on the other hand, releases energy through the splitting of heavy nuclei.) The underlying reason for the energy release is the same as that for fission - that is, the nuclei that are present initially are heavier than the products of the nuclear reaction; the difference in mass shows up as energy. 

Pure fusion weapons (as well as fusion energy) have been unattainable so far because it is very difficult to create the conditions that enable a large enough number of nuclear fusion reactions to occur and generate a net output of energy without using a fission trigger. At close range, positively-charged nuclei exert repulsive (opposing) electrical forces on each other. These forces must be overcome if the nuclei are to be brought close enough together to sufficiently increase the probability of fusion reactions occurring. This is done by heating the fuel to extremely high temperatures (hence the term "thermonuclear") - comparable to or higher than temperatures in the interior of the sun. This allows the kinetic energy (the energy of motion) of the nuclei to be large enough to overcome the repulsive force.3 Please see footnote [9].

The most common man-made fusion reaction, and the one responsible for most of the fusion energy release in thermonuclear explosions, involves two isotopes of hydrogen: deuterium (D) and tritium (T).4 Deuterium is a non-radioactive isotope, with one proton and one neutron in the nucleus. Tritium, which has one proton and two neutrons in its nucleus, is highly radioactive.5 A fusion reaction between these two isotopes produces an alpha particle, which is a helium nucleus and a neutron (see diagram above).

Thermonuclear explosions, unlike explosions caused by chain reactions in fissile materials like plutonium, do not require a minimum critical mass. Thus, pure fusion weapons could be made with very low yields, and would not produce fallout, blurring the distinction between conventional explosives and nuclear explosives. Yet, the lethality of the weapons, due to neutron radiation and explosive force, would still be great. 

http://www.ieer.org/ensec/no-6/fusion.html

For instance, the lethal area of a pure fusion weapon with an explosive force of one ton of TNT equivalent would be on the order of a hundred times larger than a conventional bomb with the same explosive force. This is because most of the lethality of pure fusion weapons would derive from the intense neutron radiation rather than the explosion. In fact, the radius of lethality of small pure fusion weapons per unit of explosive power would be far greater than that of large fission weapons.1 For instance, the destructive area per ton of TNT equivalent of the Hiroshima bomb was about 500 square meters (about 600 square yards), which is a hundred times smaller than the estimated lethal radius of a one-ton TNT equivalent pure fusion bomb. The adverse implications of this military arithmetic for nuclear nonproliferation and disarmament would be profound.

The scientific feasibility of pure fusion weapons has not yet been demonstrated, but if the technical hurdles are overcome, the use of nuclear weapons as instruments of war could be fundamentally transformed, introducing new proliferation dangers and radically reducing the chances of getting complete and enduring nuclear disarmament

Tritium was found at WTC. The souce of it has not fully been accounted for.

This is supported by evidence:


[1] Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory: Elevated Tritium source not found: http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:...ontext%3Dlbnl+ university+of+california+found+tritium+at+wtc&hl=e n&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3[/url]

[2] US Geological Survey, high Sulfur concentrations: http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/dust.html

[3] Concrete powdered as in an explosion: http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/anal.../concrete.html

[4] 911 MOSSAD Disinformation- Personal Attacks: http://911review.com/disinfo/intimidation.html


[5] Columbia records a nuclear bomb sharp seismic signature :http://www.global-conspiracies.com/seismic.htm


[6] Helsinki blast expert on tactical zero radiation hydrogen devices: http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/soldier5.htm

[7] Hydrogen zero-radiation bunker-buster technology: http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/soldier3.htm


[8] Molten steel 21 days afterwards: Steven E. Jones
Department of Physics and Astronomy
Brigham Young University, http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html, other corroborating sources PhD. witnesses from Johns Hopkins, New Jersey Rescue.

[9] Fussion nuclear "no fallout" tactical weapons: http://www.ieer.org/ensec/no-6/fusion.html

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## Kärnfysikern

You call that evidence? That article only hightlight what I have been saying all along.

I will quote the two things in the article that have any bearing what so ever on this discussion.




> http://www.ieer.org/ensec/no-6/fusion.html
> 
> *Pure fusion weapons (as well as fusion energy) have been unattainable so far because it is very difficult to create the conditions that enable a large enough number of nuclear fusion reactions to occur and generate a net output of energy without using a fission trigger*. 
> 
> *The scientific feasibility of pure fusion weapons has not yet been demonstrated,*


So what was the point in all that?? All you did was post a article about what a pure fusion weapon would be like. Without it giving ANY information on how to overcome the coulomb barrier.

So once again. I have already explained what is needed to create condition for fusion ignition. You need either:
1. massive laser facilities.
2. massive magnetic containment facilities.
3. fission bomb. 

Plain and simple. There is no other way around the coulomb barrier. You can goggle up 1000 more articles and spend another few hours of your time trying to disprove that but it wont make it any less true. 
Instead of wasting time pic up a good textbook on learn a bit about nuclear physics so you know why this is ridicilous.

If you however want to continue to belive that the goverment has some secret sci-fi technology that is 50-100 years into the future and disregard reality and the laws of science than go ahead. But it is nothing but pure nonsense to anyone that has any clue about nuclear physics. 

I am speaking as someone that has acctualy studies this(third year physics undergrad) and has a passion for nuclear physics.

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## Kärnfysikern

To achieve fusion you need to manage a few things.

1. The nuclei are all positivly charged, so it takes ALOT of work to push them togheter until the nuclear force can start working. The nuclear force has a range of only femtometer so the coulomb repulsion is insane at that distance.

2. That means in order to get the nuclei close enough they have to be insanely packed and have insane energies. i.e extreme densities and extreme temperatures(millions of degres, up to 40 million kelvin).

3. The gas of nuclei you want to fuse has to be contained long enough for there to be a fusion chain reaction. Obviously horribly hard since the insane temperatures and densities will want to dispers the gas as quickly as possible.

This was incredibly hard to achieve even with a fission trigger. The h-bomb was a masterpiece of engineering. 
Without a fission trigger we have after 50 years of research just been able to sustain fusion for microseconds(maby less) in tokamaks and Im not even sure how succesfull it has been in intertial confinement experiments(laser ignition).

But like I said earlier. Read a bit in the national ignition facilities homepage and get a sense of the scale of lasers needed to achieve fusion and the power output needed and you will realise its not possible to build a compact fusion bomb without a fission trigger for a LONG while. Its like launching a satelite with only bottle rockets.

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## Johny-too-small

> Call it what you will, but the gov. is finally admitting 5 years later what eye-whitnesses experienced first hand.
> http://www.supportthetruth.com/hill.php


Its written in this link that someone "...admitting they told people to get out of the building 4 hours before the impact..."

4 hours before? Wasnt that at 5 am? How many people are in the WTC at that hour and why wasnt the message re-announced again?

I donno.

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## BajanBastard

Shut up Johan! Although you have an excellent grasp on the subject this evidence shows you ARE WRONG.




The U.L.M.O.A. (underground lizard men of America) had clean mini nukes of years.

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## RA

Gotta love the black helicopter crowd. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  

This is such an old, tired, idiotic theory that I dont feel like getting into it that much

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## Logan13

> Bullshit on you, people reported strange workers in the building for weeks. how do you explain the power down called for by the port authority/ also controlled by the bush brother's!! You want the evidence? you want to call me bullshit??


which people reported? Give us evidence, not silly he said she said. It must truely suck to be you, were you picked on in school or picked last for kickball?

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## Kärnfysikern

> Shut up Johan! Although you have an excellent grasp on the subject this evidence shows you ARE WRONG.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The U.L.M.O.A. (underground lizard men of America) had clean mini nukes of years.



Your right, what was I thinking its so obvious  :Cry:

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## 3Vandoo

> dont post the left wing bullshit here ............. this is nothing but another "911 conspiracy" promotion .............. take this shit somewhere else



Who are you to say this?

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## Phreak101

I love lamp

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## RA

> I love lamp


 
 :LOL:  


I love carpet

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## Shang III

> The real conspiracy is the official story friend, The ZOG empire that controlls this country, and foreign affairs i s beginning to crumble!!


oh hell here we go again, blame the jews, damn this crap gets old

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## Shang III

what the h**l happened why did my post go here?

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## Shang III

here we go another blame the jews thing, doesent it get old looking so hard for some one to hate for everything? :Icon Rolleyes:

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## humungus88

> here we go another blame the jews thing, doesent it get old looking so hard for some one to hate for everything?


Here you go douche! I was simply stating a point! This thread was started to show that Bush admitts explosives! Nothing else! It got out of hand! **** it, I hope after this this thread gets put to rest, but I doubt it will as long as assholes like you troll it!

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## Logan13

> Who are you to say this?


We are the previous silent majority. When members post crazy shit, it will be rebuted as the crazy shit that it is. If you allow this crazy shit, which you obviously have, why get pissed at the subsequent rebuttals?

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