# STEROIDS FORUM > IGF-1 LR3, HGH, and INSULIN QUESTIONS >  Lantus insulin

## ricker35910

does any one have experience or know anything about lantus insulin ? i guess it's a once a day slin that won't cause you to go hypo no matter how many iu's you do, i was also told that you can take it right before bed and you still won't go hypo.

----------


## JimInAK

I take Lantus because my basal blood glucose is high. 

You can do too much Lantus, but it's not as easy to overdose because Lantus acts over a 24 hour period. Lantus brings my basal level of blood glucose down to normal.

Before you do Lantus, you should check your glucose level in the morning before you eat. When you do Lantus, it pushes your blood glucose level lower. If you already have normal or low blood glucose and you do too much Lantus, you could have a very serious hypoglycemic episode which could kill you.

----------


## plug

One of the best things you can do for your health is to buy a glucose meter and start being aware of what your glucose levels are. Test often, before and after eating and you will soon learn what foods spike your levels. Try to keep your levels between 80 and 100. Do a lot of research and test often. From what I have read I think lantus could be a fantastic new weapon against high blood glucose. Everyone is different and no one treatment is right for everyone. Read-research-test- talk to your doctor.

----------


## loftros

You can definitely go hypo from lantus. Im diabetic and have been using it for 2 years or so, it really is effective w/ humalog. Lantus never really "spikes" like fast insulin but you can still store fat easily, not to mention it could possibly cause your islets to stop producing insulin after continued use

----------


## Gear

No insulin before bed and no long acting insulins. If you are using insulin for sports enhancing reasons then is best you use the fast acting ones.

-Gear

----------


## RedBaron

Lantus is a god-send for type II diabetics that are having trouble with oral medications alone in keeping their blood sugar in check. For an aspiring athlete with a normal pancreas and normal insulin sensitivity, Lantus is absolutely the wrong way to go.

Insulin tells your body to store everything that you eat. It will either push it into the muscles and tissues, or it is just as happy taking the excess and pushing into fat cells. When an athlete uses insulin, the ONLY legitimate reason is to use it immediately after exercise to push nutrients back into muscles that are starving for them. We don't want insulin running high all day long, taking everything we eat and shoving it into fat stores. For that reason, you want to ONLY consider the quickest acting, quickest clearing out of your system insulins ... nothing long lasting.

Unless you're a type II diabetic, stay clear of Lantus ... great med, but ONLY for a diabetic.

----------


## G-Force

RB what do you make of this

*Originally Posted by Maxititer 
PWO fast acting insulin has many negative consequences.* 

1. lower blood glucose when we need it most for krebs cycle to generate ATP - no ATP no protein synthesis. Time when protein synthesis will start significantly delayed.

2. low blood glucose will stimulate secretion of glucagon, another pancreatic hormone. glucagon will use proteins to support glucose level. Instead of helping protein synthesis we are stimulating release of glucagon which will digest those proteins in muscles, which are still remained PWO.

3. fast acting insulin create sharp rise in insulin level as result IDE insulin degrading enzymes will be on rise too. It has few negative consequences: first it will leave us on low insulin level even after our humalog is gone, second IDEs can degrade IGF too. Instead of having more Igf in circulation PWO we are lowering it.

4. Did not serve the purpose - our goal PWO to make muscles to absorb more glucose and amino acids, insulin instead blocking release of glucose from liver and muscle cells already have GLUt4 transporter at any time and do not depend on insulin to absorb glucose.

5. if you drinking carbs/proteins drink during workout or PWO (everybody do) then you insulin PWO will be elevated already, simply does not make any sense injecting more insulin.

----------


## G-Force

One last thought I had is that we've never proven the rapid-insulin theory. It remains theory. It's only proven to succeed in throwing a quick 10-15 lbs on you before it fizzles out. Never has it been a strictly lean mass gain either, let's be honest.

This is because insulin spikes result in fat spillover, my friends.

This is why you are better off with 24 hour nutrition, eating complex carbs throughout the day, than consuming 50% of them in the form of sugar after a workout.

But forget the well established principles of nutrition for a moment.

Let's talk about rapid-insulin theory. The idea is that the muscles are "primed and ready" to shuttle in carbs and protein after training. (Let's also forget for now that there is some research that calls into question the traditional concept of the post-workout window.) So, the idea is that a quick spike of insulin will hammer in a ton of nutrients during this period of receptivity. But I've never seen a single study posted that has objectively measured the ability of rapid insulin to do this without resulting in fat spillover.

It's a good enough idea, isn't it? But where's the proof?

So we would be remiss to not take other theory into account when evaluating this theory, wouldn't we. This is another theory.

So, kick the tires and try it out for yourself. That's the only proof you'll need.

And the proof I've seen indicates a far superior result from long-acting insulin. Far greater gains with less fat spillover, by simply avoiding the huge spikes. Enhancing the concept of 24 hour nutrition. There are some principles that need to be followed, of course, to do it correctly. But long-acting insulin is far more powerful and far safer than rapid, and avoids the issues that Max raises in regard to rapid insulin above.

Who's right and who's wrong? You may just have to try it to find out, as the traditional slin guys certainly haven't (or they'd be dead by now. ) :-)

----------


## G-Force

bump

no opinions on this?

----------


## Bigshred

I thought this tread was just getting interesting! Bump!!!!

----------


## G-Force

nah no one can state why they think long acting insulin is bad so they all went quiet lol

here in england lantus is being used even more frequently than humalog nowadays and people are nothing but complimentary on the results

----------


## JimInAK

> Lantus is a god-send for type II diabetics that are having trouble with oral medications alone in keeping their blood sugar in check. For an aspiring athlete with a normal pancreas and normal insulin sensitivity, Lantus is absolutely the wrong way to go.
> 
> Insulin tells your body to store everything that you eat. It will either push it into the muscles and tissues, or it is just as happy taking the excess and pushing into fat cells. When an athlete uses insulin, the ONLY legitimate reason is to use it immediately after exercise to push nutrients back into muscles that are starving for them. We don't want insulin running high all day long, taking everything we eat and shoving it into fat stores. For that reason, you want to ONLY consider the quickest acting, quickest clearing out of your system insulins ... nothing long lasting.
> 
> Unless you're a type II diabetic, stay clear of Lantus ... great med, but ONLY for a diabetic.


Reb Baron is absolutely right... 

Lantus has no appropriate use for people who are not insulin resistant and have normal blood sugar readings. Lantus works 24 hours and will get you when you sleep !!!

----------


## G-Force

> Reb Baron is absolutely right... 
> 
> Lantus has no appropriate use for people who are not insulin resistant and have normal blood sugar readings. Lantus works 24 hours and will get you when you sleep !!!


havent had a single report of that happening in this country
if your carbs are reasonably high thoughout the day there will be no issue

its is much safer to have a insulin level more constant throught the day than have a sudden high and crash

another benefit is u can run it for months at time befoer getting insulin resistent

ive experienced no hypo issues with lantus
none

but i got hyp quite a few times on humalog
not good for u

----------


## goose

lantus is amazing,I love it.


a copy and paste from my friend of mine,MAX.

Long acting insulin like lantus has many advantages over any other kind of insulin used for bodybuilding. First of all better effect on muscles directly, because of long time action lantus has time to spread to peripheral tissues including skeletal muscle. Lantus able to activate IGF1 receptor 10 times more then own body insulin. Because lantus does not have peak concentration, there is no risk to went hypo in ANY! circumstances, you can keep fasting all day and you do not have chance to go hypo even if you will inject 20iu of lantus. You can inject lantus before going to bed and you will have no risk to went hypo during sleep. Why? Becasue of slow action profile. Your body always will have time to mobilize internal resources to maintain BG level.

So to summarize it, lantus more effective on muscle growth and more safe for inexperienced users.

There is no reason to sue lantus at 10-15 per day, it is too low doses. To get real effect from lantus you will have to work doses up to 50-70iu per day. It is not too much with lantus, because lantus can spread all over the body mean insulin concentration in some particular tissues will remain quite low.

That is another advantage that you can gradually work the dose up on quite significant amount of IU per day and be safe.

How to use it? 

First of all I want to stress the fact, that insulin use require to be serious about what you are doing and have some discipline. 

Start with 10iu per day ED. Lantus have to be used ED, not on working day or 2 day per week. If you not injecting lantus ED you cannot titrate dose up. If you do not titrate doses up you will not have any serious effect from use of lantus at all. 

Increase dose on 5 iu per week. Check your morning fasting BG on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, if results are not less then 70 mg/dl you can increase dose on 5 iu at Monday. Do the same next week. By doing this simple testing you can be sure that your diet is adequate and you will NEVER run into any troubles with lantus. If fasting morning BG less than 70mg/dl - improve your diet take some long acting proteins at night and stay on the same dose during the whole next week. No frog's jumps with insulin.

Will you have opportunity to accumulate some extra fat - Yes, certainly. Fat accumulation can be controlled perfectly with use of 250-500mcg of GH Frags 176-191 injected same time with lantus at morning.

----------


## JimInAK

> lantus is amazing,I love it.
> 
> 
> a copy and paste from my friend of mine,MAX.
> 
> Long acting insulin like lantus has many advantages over any other kind of insulin used for bodybuilding. First of all better effect on muscles directly, because of long time action lantus has time to spread to peripheral tissues including skeletal muscle. Lantus able to activate IGF1 receptor 10 times more then own body insulin. Because lantus does not have peak concentration, there is no risk to went hypo in ANY! circumstances, you can keep fasting all day and you do not have chance to go hypo even if you will inject 20iu of lantus. You can inject lantus before going to bed and you will have no risk to went hypo during sleep. Why? Becasue of slow action profile. *Your body always will have time to mobilize internal resources to maintain BG level.*
> 
> So to summarize it, lantus more effective on muscle growth and more safe for inexperienced users.
> 
> ...


If you have a NORMAL fasting blood glucose level, adding 50 -70 iu MAY KILL YOU.

I have a high basal blood sugar level and use less Lantus than that.

This information is DEADLY WRONG: "Your body always will have time to mobilize internal resources to maintain BG level."

Your body's "internal resource" for maintaining BG level is to produce insulin. There is NO INTERNAL MECHANISM for raising your blood sugar fast enough to overcome an injection of too much insulin. Your only effective defense is to eat carbs and you can't do that while you sleep.

People do die from the misuse of insulin, which proves that in cases of an insulin overdose your body will NOT have time to mobilize internal resources to maintain BG level.

If you follow Goose's suggestion, you will have a real chance of NEVER WAKING UP, after taking a big blast of Lantus.

His advise is DEAD WRONG.

----------


## JimInAK

You might want to know these facts BEFORE you take Lantus.

*Treatment for a Lantus Overdose*

Treatment for a Lantus overdose will involve supportive care, which consists of treating the symptoms that occur as a result of the overdose. For example, supportive treatment options may include:

* Fluids through an intravenous line (IV)
* A sugar (glucose) solution to increase blood sugar
* A glucagon injection to increase blood sugar
* Other treatments based on the complications that occur.

It is important that you seek prompt medical attention if you believe you may have overdosed on Lantus.

*Serious Lantus Side Effects: Warning Signs*

Some side effects with Lantus are potentially serious and should be reported immediately to your healthcare provider. Possible warning signs of these serious side effects include:

* Symptoms of low blood sugar, such as:

o Sweating
o Dizziness
o Cold sweats
o Shakiness
o Extreme hunger
o Blurry vision
o Changes in behavior, such as irritability
o Loss of coordination
o Difficulty speaking
o Confusion
o Seizures
o Unconsciousness

Some people may have different signs of low blood sugar. Make sure those around you know how to recognize your particular signs, as you may be too confused, due to low blood sugar, to recognize and adequately respond to low blood sugar.

----------


## PT

> If you have a NORMAL fasting blood glucose level, adding 50 -70 iu MAY KILL YOU.
> 
> I have a high basal blood sugar level and use less Lantus than that.
> 
> This information is DEADLY WRONG: "Your body always will have time to mobilize internal resources to maintain BG level."
> 
> Your body's "internal resource" for maintaining BG level is to produce insulin . There is NO INTERNAL MECHANISM for raising your blood sugar fast enough to overcome an injection of too much insulin. Your only effective defense is to eat carbs and you can't do that while you sleep.
> 
> People do die from the misuse of insulin, which proves that in cases of an insulin overdose your body will NOT have time to mobilize internal resources to maintain BG level.
> ...


my man, we have been doing this for years and are still here. yes its dangerous if not used correctly but thousands of us have used it for years so please dont say his advice is dead wrong when it is actually correct

----------


## JimInAK

I am sorry if I am wrong and don't pretend to know more that you guys.

It seems dangerous to lower your blood sugar while you sleep, if you can't maintain constant carb input.

----------


## alpmaster

> It seems dangerous to lower your blood sugar while you sleep, if you can't maintain constant carb input.


That's your problem, you _can_ maintain a constant carb input. It's called gluconeogenesis.

----------


## customworksking

I 1st started gh everything was gr8 till I got lean only took 130iu @ 2iu a day blue top's and a good diet well i was on a very low carb diet add GH and no carbs ='s hypoglycemia. for god's sake do not play with your Blood Sugar and if u use gh test yourself regularly.. both high and low side effects r the same end result DEATH!

----------


## fif

Longer lasting insulin means a greater chance of gaining unwanted fat too. Any fat you consume will be stored, thus lantus is not a wise choice of insulin. Fast acting slin (like humalog) will allow you to time the peak and IMO you'll have a less chance of going hypo. Good luck bro


LOL just realized how old this thread is

----------


## RedBaron

Since this got bumped from a long time ago, I just noticed that G-Force spun an idea my way that I never saw. I don't think he is active anymore, but I will comment for chance he makes his way here from time to time still (as we all seem to do).

For the right situation, with the right audience, that discussion about the longer acting insulins does have some merit. The problem of course is that on a public forum such as this, who are the primary audience? There is a HUGE difference in a pro-class bodybuilder who's livelihood depends on being all he can be and a "normal" person who is living a fit and healthy life-style, and as a serious hobby participates in bodybuilding or other athletic events. A pro will militantly prepare their meals, measuring and calculating what and when, waking up in the middle of the night to take in nutrients, etc ... in other words it consumes their life. On the other hand, you have a dedicated weight-lifter, who religiously goes to the gym and eats well, but also has a job, family, friends, and really wants to have a life outside bodybuilding. Those are two completely separate crowds.

In this thread I am seeing that the argument is that if you take in quality carbs through the day and use the slight elevation of a long acting insulin to suck in those carbs all day long, you are getting a better feeding ... and that isn't entirely unreasonable ... IF and a big IF, you are militant about your diet, have absolute control over the amount and the quality of the nutrients you are taking in, and you have a really good handle on how your body processes nutrients.

It is true enough that your body is an amazing machine, and it is able to compensate for a host of indiscretions that we throw its way. I saw the term glucogenesis thrown in this thread as well. Certainly if you withhold sufficient carbs to fuel your body (especially your brain), then your body will roll into action and your liver (and to a small extent your kidneys) will kick in and say it is try to make some sugar. While that may save your life, from a bodybuilding perspective I'm not sure that is something you would want to do. A really attractive target for some quick sugar is amino acids from your muscles ... your liver can make short work of turning that into sugar to keep you alive. I can't imagine a scenario outside of life and death where I would want hard earned nutrients from my muscles being mobilized to the liver for sugar.

So where does this leave us. For the larger majority of casual fitness buffs, who really would much rather live life than be a slave to a militant fitness and eating regimen, then a long acting insulin is probably going to add some fat to the point that it will have to be dealt with at some point. Also, sustaining an elevated insulin level over long periods of time (which is what the longer acting insulins are designed to do), the end result over enough time will be an increase in insulin resistance, which will then also need to be dealt with. Lastly, if your diet isn't spot on, then you could have periods where you do drive yourself into a state of glucogenesis, and end up eating good hard earned muscle to cover for you laxity in controlling quality carbs. All in all this doesn't sound like a really wise advice to send to the masses.

On the other hand, if you ARE militant in your diet and timing of nutrients, you really are at an advanced fitness stage where insulin does make sense beyond the spot feeding of humalog or the like, and you are trying to take your body to the next level, then certainly there is merit to entertaining Lantus and the like, as many have found out already. In my book though, those conversations are more one on one with a select group of advanced bodybuilders and not an open forum of mostly folks with a real life, family, and job outside of fitness concerns.

----------


## JimInAK

A very good and factual post by RedBaron! Thanks !!! 

I believe that I now understand the issues involved with Lantus use and greatly appreciate the explanation provided above. That information is very helpful for me to make decisions that relate to my specific needs.

This is exactly the sort of solid information that brings me to this site, to learn the facts which help me make an informed decision. I really appreciate those who take the time and have the patience to help us all...

----------

