# GENERAL FORUM > IN THE NEWS >  CIA report: Israel will fall in 20 years

## NewMuscle83

Not sure how true this is, I'm trying to find a legit source to find out if this is an actual report or just made up. Either way, I can agree with the logic behind it. I guess we'll have to wait and see...

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CIA report: Israel will fall in 20 years
14/03/2009 

(israelinsider.ning.com) CIA report predicts Israel will fall in 20 years

A study conducted by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) has cast doubt over Israel's survival beyond the next 20 years.

The CIA report predicts "an inexorable movement away from a two-state to a one-state solution, as the most viable model based on democratic principles of full equality that sheds the looming specter of colonial Apartheid while allowing for the return of the 1947/1948 and 1967 refugees. The latter being the precondition for sustainable peace in the region."

The study, which has been made available only to a certain number of individuals, further forecasts the return of all Palestinian refugees to the occupied territories, and the exodus of two million Israeli - who would move to the US in the next fifteen years.

"There is over 500,000 Israelis with American passports and more than 300,000 living in the area of just California," International lawyer Franklin Lamb said in an interview with Press TV on Friday, adding that those who do not have American or western passport, have already applied for them.

"So I think the handwriting at least among the public in Israel is on the wall...[which] suggests history will reject the colonial enterprise sooner or later," Lamb stressed.

He said CIA, in its report, alludes to the unexpectedly quick fall of the apartheid government in South Africa and recalls the disintegration of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s, suggesting the end to the dream of an 'Israeli land' would happen 'way sooner' than later.

The study further predicts the return of over one and a half million Israelis to Russia and other parts of Europe, and denotes a decline in Israeli births whereas a rise in the Palestinian population.

Lamb said given the Israeli conduct toward the Palestinians and the Gaza strip in particular, the American public -- which has been voicing its protest against Tel Aviv's measures in the last 25 years -- may 'not take it anymore'.

Some members of the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee have been informed of the report.

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## Matt

Well i cant say im sorry to hear it....

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## NewMuscle83

> the American public -- which has been voicing its protest against Tel Aviv's measures in the last 25 years -- may 'not take it anymore'.


I think this makes the most sense. In the current economical hardship the US is going through, I think more and more people will start to get angry at the ridiculous amounts of aid Israel receives out of taxpayer money. I think most will start to demand these billions of dollars be used at home, regardless of their view on Israel, and whether it deserves the aid or not.

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## MuscleScience

> I think this makes the most sense. *In the current economical hardship the US is going through, I think more and more people will start to get angry at the ridiculous amounts of aid Israel receives out of taxpayer money. I think most will start to demand these billions of dollars be used at home, regardless of their view on Israel, and whether it deserves the aid or not*.


I think most citizen have been demanding that we spend our money here instead of sending trillions over seas to different nations for aid. Our leaders just do not listen to all of us footing the bill.

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## NewMuscle83

and that's when revolutions happen my friend...

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## Prada

I think right now it depends and is related to the balance of power. When and if it is tipped...things could change.

i.e, If the US is no longer a superpower and if Iran develops nukes then things will definitely change.

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## PT

there backed by the united states and therfor will never fall.

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## Prada

^^Right but thats assuming the US will never fall and one day like all great empires they will fall. Then again whoever rises may be "pro-Israeli" as well.

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## JiGGaMaN

i would say that source is questionable at best.

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## BuffedGuy

> ^^Right but thats assuming the US will never fall and one day like all great empires they will fall. Then again whoever rises may be "pro-Israeli" as well.


The sun will never set on the British empire. Yet it did. 

It took us 200 years to reclaim the holy land from the Crusaders. If it will take 400 years to reclaim it this time, then we will persevere until then.

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## spywizard

> I think most citizen have been demanding that we spend our money here instead of sending trillions over seas to different nations for aid. Our leaders just do not listen to all of us footing the bill.




??? you know why that is... I know you do, the assumption is that you as the general public do not have the "pay grade" to make those types of decisions.

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## eliteforce

"Press TV" is Iranian, this report looks like it was borrowed from the public Iranian news organization which often depicts Israel's demise relatively soon .. 

although Jews in Israel will eventually become a minority (especially when you include WB&Gaza Palestinians-in that case Jews are already a minority) the area around tel-aviv-west jerusalem, extending north just below the galilee is overwhelmingly Jewish, Israel could decide later to give the galilee and negev regions autonomy and then having a core Jewish ministate, or they could ask the Palestine state (assuming one is created in the WB) to absorb some of the Israeli state's territory that has a high concentration of Palestinians in it.

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## Prada

> The sun will never set on the British empire. Yet it did.


Yeah I know, Im not disagreeing with you.

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## DSM4Life

Will the fall be as entertaining as this ?

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## BuffedGuy

> Yeah I know, Im not disagreeing with you.


I know, bro. I was just agreeing with you.

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## Kratos

> It took us 200 years to reclaim the holy land from the Crusaders. If it will take 400 years to reclaim it this time, then we will persevere until then.


Few things in life or on this earth are as important as kicking some jews out of a desert you've never seen, so some people you've never met can return to a home they've never known.

I'll pray for you that you live to see it.

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## Flagg

> The sun will never set on the British empire. Yet it did. 
> 
> It took us 200 years to reclaim the holy land from the Crusaders. If it will take 400 years to reclaim it this time, then we will persevere until then.



Not to offend, but I sincerely hope the major religions of today do not exist anymore by 2409.

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## mho

> Well i cant say im sorry to hear it....


What makes you say that?

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## mho

> Not to offend, but I sincerely hope the major religions of today do not exist anymore by 2409.


God is really gonna lay it down on your ass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLwtqwnI6ko

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## BuffedGuy

> Few things in life or on this earth are as important as kicking some jews out of a desert you've never seen, so some people you've never met can return to a home they've never known.
> 
> I'll pray for you that you live to see it.


A few things here:

(1) There are many things that matter more, such as unifying our worship to the One God.

(2) It has nothing to do with them being Jews. 

(3) It is not as if Israelis live in some isolated desert minding their own business. Americans went crazy when nukes were placed in Cuba, which isn't even inside the USA. So how do you think Middle Easterners feel when Israel--armed with nukes and other goodies--is in the middle of the Middle East? Imagine how crazy Americans would have gone if Cuba occupied Florida and other neighboring countries. Well then, you can understand how Israel occupying all its neighbors makes us feel.

(4) The Palestinians who were expelled still remember their homes, as that generation is still alive.

(5) As for the next generation of Palestinians, the only homes they have known have been refugee camps surrounded on all sides by Israeli fences and soldiers. I wonder why they care so much to go back to the "home they've never seen", when they have it so nice and cushy in those great refugee camps!

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## MuscleScience

> ??? you know why that is... I know you do, the assumption is that you as the general public do not have the "pay grade" to make those types of decisions.


Whats crazy about that is most of the academics I know make far less than my dad that has just a highschool education and a blue collar job.... :Wink/Grin: 

Heck when i was selling HDTV's in undergrad I was talking home as much as my Ph.D professor who brought millions of dollars each year into the university from research grants.

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## Kratos

> A few things here:
> 
> (1) There are many things that matter more, such as unifying our worship to the One God.
> 
> (2) It has nothing to do with them being Jews. 
> 
> (3) It is not as if Israelis live in some isolated desert minding their own business. Americans went crazy when nukes were placed in Cuba, which isn't even inside the USA. So how do you think Middle Easterners feel when Israel--armed with nukes and other goodies--is in the middle of the Middle East? Imagine how crazy Americans would have gone if Cuba occupied Florida and other neighboring countries. Well then, you can understand how Israel occupying all its neighbors makes us feel.
> 
> (4) The Palestinians who were expelled still remember their homes, as that generation is still alive.
> ...


1) The one God is a matter of opinion, and will never be mine. Why are Muslims always worried about unifying worship...do what you feel like but forget about what other people are doing. This is a good part of why so many civil wars exist in the Muslim world. "you have to believe as I do for me to be free" mentality.

2)It has plenty to do with them being Jews. Jews are sub-human in muslim nations. If they weren't of another religion there would be no conflict. Or it would be a very different conflict.

3)We went crazy because Russia's intentions were unknown and we weren't in a position of MADD at that point. The problem was Russia, not Cuba, duh. Israel's use of Nukes assures their destruction by one means or another. The US for one would not allow their unprovoked use so your argument is void.

4)When? 50 years ago easily. How many are still alive? How old are the living? Not saying it's right though. And are all of the original generation in the camps or have some relocated?

5)Not good, a soloution needs to be found for those people, but that soloution could be peaceful...but most likely won't end up being. The Muslim world is big, why not open boders in aid to refugees as many western countries have attempted to do? Jordan took on a huge number I know, but the people in the refugee camps should only be there by choice if they want to wait out the conflict and they belong in Muslim counties where they can be happy.

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## NightWolf

> The Muslim world is big, why not open boders in aid to refugees as many western countries have attempted to do?


Very good point, i have always wondered this also.
I read a article about Egypt shooting palistinians
who were trying to cross the border before the
ceasefire between israel and hamas.

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## NewMuscle83

People always love to suggest the wonderful idea of a different country to go live and be happy, yet they never put themselves in those people's shoes. If a group of thugs were to come and invade this country and take the majority of it, while subjecting you to the most inhumane conditions possible, the thought of you giving up and leaving your home for another country would seem pretty silly at that point, wouldn't it?

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## NightWolf

> Well i cant say im sorry to hear it....


Offcourse not, your a jew hater. How about you get some 
knowledge about the subject before you open your mouth.

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## NewMuscle83

of course he's a jew hater. There's no way he could be opposed to the imperialistic invading Israelis who came in and massacred people and took their land, or the conditions they subject the surviving palestinians to. That wouldn't make sense. The real motive behind his comment is that he is racist against the poor people of the jewish faith for no reason at all..just simply because he is a jew hater.

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## Matt

You know you kids today need to open your eyes and stop letting things such as MTV brainwash you...

Your allowed to think for yourselves you know....

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## Matt

> of course he's a jew hater. There's no way he could be opposed to the imperialistic invading Israelis who came in and massacred people and took their land, or the conditions they subject the surviving palestinians to. That wouldn't make sense. *The real motive behind his comment is that he is racist against the poor people of the jewish faith for no reason at all..just simply because he is a jew hater.*




Edit, not sure where your coming from...

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## Kratos

> People always love to suggest the wonderful idea of a different country to go live and be happy, yet they never put themselves in those people's shoes. If a group of thugs were to come and invade this country and take the majority of it, while subjecting you to the most inhumane conditions possible, the thought of you giving up and leaving your home for another country would seem pretty silly at that point, wouldn't it?


I didn't say moving everone out was the soloution...but why aren't they being offered the option? Instead they are left to rot as valuable bargaining chips in the fight for Palestine. When refugees could easily cross into Jordan they were doing so quite willingly. I'm just suprized no Muslim country is showing compassion, by providing refuge. Not sayiing they should have to leave only that some might choose to leave.
A lot of American's relocated to Canada to avoid draft, let them decide.

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## Kratos

Anyway, life goes on the same regardless of who controls israel...Allah isn't going to smile, the clouds aren't going to part in sunshine, and it isn't going to usher in a new era of prosperity for the Muslim people. You'll be happy and excited for a few weeks or months, then you'll realize it's just one less injustice in the world to bitch about. Holy and land in the same sentence is just stupid, and holy land you fire rockets at no less.

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## mho

> of course he's a jew hater. There's no way he could be opposed to the imperialistic invading Israelis who came in and massacred people and took their land, or the conditions they subject the surviving palestinians to. That wouldn't make sense. The real motive behind his comment is that he is racist against the poor people of the jewish faith for no reason at all..just simply because he is a jew hater.


Sounds like what the Americans did to American Indians. Or what the Angles, Saxons and Jutes did the the Celts. Or the British to the Indigenous people of Australia. And if we want to pick the fly shit out of pepper, who occupied that land first? Jews or Palestinians?

I really don't see why this is unacceptable only in the case of Israel. No matter where you live, another people lived their first and they probably didn't go quietly. If some Indian showed up on my porch demanding his land back, he'd soon meet my friend Mr. 12 gauge.

And wasn't Jordan at one time a "Palestinian territory"? Why aren't the Palestinians shelling Jordanian cities?

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## Panzerfaust

So the world will be a safer place in 20yrs?


Sweet! Can't wait.

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## NewMuscle83

> [/B]
> 
> Edit, not sure where your coming from...


Just being sarcastic. I found it ridiculous that he called you a jew hater simply cause you stated your opinion.

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## NewMuscle83

> Sounds like what the Americans did to American Indians. Or what the Angles, Saxons and Jutes did the the Celts. Or the British to the Indigenous people of Australia. And if we want to pick the fly shit out of pepper, who occupied that land first? Jews or Palestinians?
> 
> I really don't see why this is unacceptable only in the case of Israel. No matter where you live, another people lived their first and they probably didn't go quietly. If some Indian showed up on my porch demanding his land back, he'd soon meet my friend Mr. 12 gauge.
> 
> And wasn't Jordan at one time a "Palestinian territory"? Why aren't the Palestinians shelling Jordanian cities?


The difference is that it's going on right now, and the oppressed have not given up and they have not been defeated and erased off the earth just yet. Palestinians will fight for their land and their rights until they get their freedom, or suffer the same fate as the other unfortuniate indiginous peoples of other nations. We can sit here and argue all day on internet messag board, but people over there see it a lot differently that we do here. So, all politics aside, they are living a real life of injustice and misery, and will continue to resist until they prevail or perish.

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## NewMuscle83

As for jordan, and all other "muslim" countries, the problem is far more complex than you guys think. Israel is not our only enemy, the majority of arab REGIMES are responsible for our suffering as well. While the people want us to be free, the leaders don't, since it will affect them economically and politically. Therefore, I am also as much against arab regimes as I am against Israel. They are both equally responsible for the current apartheid.

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## mho

> The difference is that it's going on right now, and the oppressed have not given up and they have not been defeated and erased off the earth just yet. Palestinians will fight for their land and their rights until they get their freedom, or suffer the same fate as the other unfortuniate indiginous peoples of other nations. We can sit here and argue all day on internet messag board, but people over there see it a lot differently that we do here. So, all politics aside, they are living a real life of injustice and misery, and will continue to resist until they prevail or perish.


But the Jews inhabited that area since 10,000BC. So technically weren't the Jews there first? You could argue that the land that is now Israel has been the Jew homeland for thousands of years, and they just took back from the Palestinians what was rightfully theirs. By the way, was Palestine ever a country? And when did the term "Palestinian" first appear in history?

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## NewMuscle83

> But the Jews inhabited that area since 10,000BC. So technically weren't the Jews there first? You could argue that the land that is now Israel has been the Jew homeland for thousands of years, and they just took back from the Palestinians what was rightfully theirs. By the way, was Palestine ever a country? And when did the term "Palestinian" first appear in history?


Again, you could go into your bullsh*t technicalities, or you could look at the situation with a matter of fact view. Jews were there thousands of years, but then, by their own doing, dispersed into the rest of the world. Arabs and palestinians have been there consistently for 1500 years now...but that doesn't matter to me. Also, when they inhabited that area they didn't kill and destroy the civilization that was there. Anyways, what matters is that when the jews first started migrating back to palestine in the early 1900's there were only 5% jews, 5% christians, and 90% palestinians. That's a fact. Also, they came in and started killing and destroying, and treating palestinians like subhumans. That's a fact.

You can go into your retarded rhetorics of what came first, and where did the name originate from, and all other bullsh*t secondary things created to distract people from the true situation at hand, which is real people suffering and dying by the hands of blood thirsty racist Israelis.

That's a fvcking fact.

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## Matt

> Just being sarcastic. I found it ridiculous that he called you a jew hater simply cause you stated your opinion.


Yeah i got that in the end lol.

For the record i dont hate all jews, i do hate what israel does to the Palestinians....

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## Kratos

> Anyways, what matters is that when the jews first started migrating back to palestine in the early 1900's there were only 5% jews, 5% christians, and 90% palestinians. That's a fact. Also, they came in and started killing and destroying, and treating palestinians like subhumans. That's a fact.
> 
> real people suffering and dying by the hands of blood thirsty racist Israelis.
> 
> That's a fvcking fact.


Not sure where you get your definitive facts here but I don't know how you can state the religious census with any certainty, census was shit and several sources on the subject and they all state different number. And at that time everyone woud be palestinian, the distinction would be jew, christian or Muslim.

They came in and started killing and destroying and treating Palestinians like subhumans...care to back that up and share a source since after all it is fact. There is in fact every indication there was net Arab immigration into Palestine in the period of 1900-1948, and that the economic situation of Palestinian Arabs improved tremendously under the British Mandate relative to surrounding countries. According to the Ottoman census there were 414k arabs in Palestine in 1893. By 1948, there were approximately 1.35 million Arabs and 650,000 Jews living between the Jordan and the Mediterranean, more Arabs than had ever lived in Palestine before, and more Jews than had lived there since Roman times. Therefore, Zionist immigration did not displace Arabs. But since those Arabs are immigrants as many of the Jews are, they have no rightful claim to the land...correct?

Real people are suffering and dying by the hands of blood thirsty racist Palestinians too. That's a fact.

If you're going to get all dramatic with your "that's a fact" statements, try to make some of them facts rather than bias perspectives.

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## Kratos

> As for jordan, and all other "muslim" countries, the problem is far more complex than you guys think. Israel is not our only enemy, the majority of arab REGIMES are responsible for our suffering as well. While the people want us to be free, the leaders don't, since it will affect them economically and politically. Therefore, I am also as much against arab regimes as I am against Israel. They are both equally responsible for the current apartheid.


I understand the complexity quite well...I'm not blaming Jordan because I understand the reasons they wanted to end the influx of refugees. But, I think many Muslim nations like the refugees right were they are, and care more about the power position the refugees create rather than the people themselves.

I think the opressive regimes you speak of will be around for a long time...without help from an outside nation the only people with power to over throw such leaders are militants...then you need another group of militants to over-throw those militants cause lets face it, militants aren't the boy scouts. And clearly you know how the US or other military powers are looked at when they try to remove an arab regime, so that doesn't work.

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## BuffedGuy

> Sounds like what the Americans did to American Indians.


Exactly. And everyone agrees that it was an atrocity what the Europeans did to the Native Americans.




> who occupied that land first? Jews or Palestinians?


The Arabs/Palestinians preceded the Jews. When the Jews came from Egypt, they had to wipe out the native inhabitants (the ancestors of the Arabs). This is even mentioned in the Old Testament.




> I really don't see why this is unacceptable only in the case of Israel.


It's always unacceptable. 48volts explains perfectly:




> The difference is that it's going on right now, and the oppressed have not given up and they have not been defeated and erased off the earth just yet. Palestinians will fight for their land and their rights until they get their freedom, or suffer the same fate as the other unfortuniate indiginous peoples of other nations. We can sit here and argue all day on internet messag board, but people over there see it a lot differently that we do here. So, all politics aside, they are living a real life of injustice and misery, and will continue to resist until they prevail or perish.


48volts hit the nail on its head!




> But the Jews inhabited that area since 10,000BC. So technically weren't the Jews there first?


No. Even though this is a pathetically weak line of argumentation, even this argument fails, since the ancestors of the Arabs were already in the land before the Jews came from Egypt. Again, mentioned in the OT itself.




> Not sure where you get your definitive facts here but I don't know how you can state the religious census with any certainty, census was shit and several sources on the subject and they all state different number. And at that time everyone woud be palestinian, the distinction would be jew, christian or Muslim.


Detailed censuses were done by the Ottomans, the British, and the French. The British especially took great pains to document this, when they were discussing the issue of what was to be done of the British mandate of Palestine. The British Survey of Palestine Department had at least 55 detailed charts and tables on this issue. 

The statistics are accepted by the Israeli government, and are even available on the official Israeli website. I've already posted this before. If you want, I can search my previous posts to find it again. 

The fact is that the Israeli government admits that only 6% of the land was owned by Jews up until 1948. Keep in mind that this was after decades of illegal Jewish immigration and Zionist terrorist squads. Even with all that, only 6%. In the early 1900s, it was way less than that.

These facts cannot be denied, and whoever denies them doesn't know what he is talking about.




> They came in and started killing and destroying and treating Palestinians like subhumans...care to back that up and share a source since after all it is fact.


Sure. Go research about the Zionist terrorist groups, such as the Irgun, Haganah, Stern Gang, etc. It was from these groups that the IDF (Israel's military) was formed. This is all documented history. If you don't know this, then you have no right to give any input whatsoever.




> There is in fact every indication there was net Arab immigration into Palestine in the period of 1900-1948, and that the economic situation of Palestinian Arabs improved tremendously under the British Mandate relative to surrounding countries. According to the Ottoman census there were 414k arabs in Palestine in 1893. By 1948, there were approximately 1.35 million Arabs and 650,000 Jews living between the Jordan and the Mediterranean, more Arabs than had ever lived in Palestine before, and more Jews than had lived there since Roman times.


The Arab population increased mainly due to fertility, not immigration.




> Real people are suffering and dying by the hands of blood thirsty racist Palestinians too. That's a fact.


The fact is that Israel is occupying Palestinian land, not the other way around.




> If you're going to get all dramatic with your "that's a fact" statements, try to make some of them facts rather than bias perspectives.


You are the one who knows nothing on a topic but continues to debate. Please list the books you have read on this topic. If you've never read a single book on this topic, then just be quiet.

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## Kratos

> It's always unacceptable. 48volts explains perfectly:
> 
> 
> 
> 48volts hit the nail on its head!
> 
> .


Funny how the Muslim members always do in your opinion. No offense 48.

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## Kratos

> The Arab population increased mainly due to fertility, not immigration.
> 
> .


http://www.meforum.org/522/the-smoki...into-palestine

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## wanabeMASSIVE!

> Well i cant say im sorry to hear it....


me 2..

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## wanabeMASSIVE!

i think buffed explains well...

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## Kratos

> Sure. Go research about the Zionist terrorist groups, such as the Irgun, Haganah, Stern Gang, etc. It was from these groups that the IDF (Israel's military) was formed. This is all documented history. If you don't know this, then you have no right to give any input whatsoever.
> 
> .


Haganah, was only a paid gaurd force for Jewish settlements, they consisted mainly of Jewish farmers who took turns guarding their farms and didn't number more than 100 people. This didn't change until after 1929 riots.

Stern Gang not founded until 1940

Irgun 1931

I said prove Israeli's started migrating in 1900 and started killing and treating Arabs like subhumans. Buy the era of these organizations much conflict already.

Tel Hai March 1, 1920
Nebi Musa riots April 4- April 7, 1920 Arabs
Jaffa riots and attacks on Rehovot, Petah Tikva, Kfar Saba, Hadera May 1- May 7, 1921
Hebron massacre August 23- August 26, 1929 
Safed massacre August 29, 1929

All of the above massacres started by Arabs
can you provide me with a list of massacres incited by jews prior to 1929 please?

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## NewMuscle83

Just to clarify, I didn't mean that jews migrated and immediately began killing and destroying. I may have worded it incorrectly. What I meant to say is that they did in fact migrate, and did in fact kill and destroy, but more recently than they did in the begginning. Of course they had to get the numbers in order to have power to start taking over land. Arabs and jews got along very well prior to migration, and even during the migrations. My grandpa told me stories of how the kids in the neighborhood didn't know what religion each person was, and everybody celebrated everyone's holidays. It is not until jews started migrating in crazy numbers, and began to terrorize the palestinians, that there true invading motivation became clear. That's when the arabs started revolting. As soon as the jews grew in power and numbers, the real killing and destruction began. But again, just to clarify, i didn't mean it was immediate, I'm more saying that the majority of killing and destruction, and all of the illegal land grabbing done today, and for about 60 years now, is at the hands of the Israelis.

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## Kratos

^It's a mess, and it's hard to fault one side or the other, things have snowballed to the point of being out of control, and nobody thinks the current situation is good.^

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## NewMuscle83

It is a mess, but I do think the solution is simple..well, in theory. The balance of power in the middle east is all out of whack right now because of Israel's nuclear arsenal and the billions in US aid. I think a cut off, or massive reduction in aid (coupled with an unlikely, but beneficial, nuclear disarm) will significantly reduce the might of Israel to the level of its arab neighbors. At that point, Israel will be forced to come to the negotiation table without the over-sized upper hand they currently have. They will be obligated to make a peace deal that is fair to both sides, since they do not control the entire situation.

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## BgMc31

^^Very simple solution indeed, but too simple, IMO. I'm sure the thoughts of Isreali's and most of the western world would be, are the Arabs willing to negotiate fairly. Because if we cut off aid to Isreal and disarmed their nuclear arsenal, they would be at a sever disadvantage to the multiple Arab states that surround them.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not on either side. I'm just saying there is no clear solution to this problem. Sad situation indeed!!!

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## NewMuscle83

> ^^Very simple solution indeed, but too simple, IMO. I'm sure the thoughts of Isreali's and most of the western world would be, are the Arabs willing to negotiate fairly. Because if we cut off aid to Isreal and disarmed their nuclear arsenal, they would be at a sever disadvantage to the multiple Arab states that surround them.
> 
> Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not on either side. I'm just saying there is no clear solution to this problem. Sad situation indeed!!!


what you're saying is the excuse for the western world (US mainly) to support Israel's power, and its unfair negotiations and land grabs is that if they don't have the power to do that, then the arabs will be the unfair ones. And since one side is bound to be unfair, then we might as well continue the support of Israel's unfair deal making, since.....we like 'em better? I may think its because their lobby in the US is much more powerful and influential than all others...but I could be wrong.

I know you probably don't mean to say that, but that's basically what it sounds like.

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## Kratos

I think BgMc's point is a valid one...if Israel were at a severe disadvantage would there be any negotiations at all? Or just a war?

The US is getting a raw deal by supporting Israel, and they will have support as long as they appear by law makers to be in good faith in peace negotiations. So far, law makers must be somewhat satisfied.

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## tankerlife4ever

Loving these threads on here...didn't expect to find old israel-palestine threads on here. Arguing the history is relatively easy, despite the propaganda that exists the history books don't lie. For a brief glimpse of the origins of Zionism I'd recommend a book by Margaret MacMillan (a Canadian lass of course) Paris 1919...

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## JimmySidewalk

Its funny 'cause there's a word floating around. Its goes like "america isnt israel's protector, israel is america's protector".
Keep in mind that israel is a nuclear power.
Moreover, the USA gets its weapons from israel. Israel makes and tests all the prototype weapons that afterwards will be army standard issue.
Need i say more about mossad ?

Iseriously doubt that it will fall. At most, it will shape-shift into something else, more covert. The "fall" will be just a curtain pulled down on the public eye.

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## gearbox

good reads. agree with "not a simple solution"
and the "curtain to the public eye"

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