# MEMBERS EXPERIENCES > MEMBER'S CYCLE RESULTS >  1st cycle: test cyp @ 500mg/wk - 12 weeks!

## Trying-Hard

I actually started a log in the general section, but someone pointed out I need to be logging my progress in this section. 

I have worked very hard to get to where I am today, although I have been on and off for a long time and I wish I was consistent throughout all these years. I think I am at a stage in my life where I am 100% ready for gear. I started my very first pin last Thursday, 8/2 but I only took a .5cc (125 mg). Next week starts the real doses (250 Mon, 250 Thr) and the beginning of the full 12 week cycle. I am excited/nervous at the same time. But I think I am more excited. Anyway, here it goes....

*Current Stats & measurements (cold):*
Stats:
30 years old
5'7 - flat footed (no shoes)
180.0 lbs morning weight (upon awakening, in boxers, after bathroom) - assuming around 14%

Measurements:
Arms: 18.5"
Chest: 46.25" 
Shoulders: 52.5"
Upper legs: 26"

*Diet:*
M1: 6 egg whites, 2 whole eggs, 1 cup oats (dry), 1 banana 
M2: 5 oz tuna, .5 tbs virgin olive oil, 2 slices of wheat bread
M3 - 6-8 oz chicken breast, 2 cups rice, salad
M4 - 2oz whole wheat pasta, 4 oz ground turkey, .5 cup prego sauce, salad
M5 - 40g whey, 4 slices of whole wheat bread
M6 PWO - 40g whey, 1 whole white bagel, 1tbs PB, 1 banana (I love this meal...YUM)
M7 - .5cup cottage cheese, 1tb PB, cheese

Macros:
Calories: 3,600
Protein: 350
Carbs: 400
Fats: 80

*Cycle & PCT:*
Cycle:
week 1-14: Test cyp @ 500/wk (250 Sun, 250 Wed)
week 5-14: HCG 500 IUs/wk (250 2x), pinning 2 days after cyp injections 
week 1-16: L-stane 10mg eod starting from first pin
week 15 -16: HCG 1000 IUs/wk (500 2x)

PCT
Week 17-20: 
Clomid: 100/50/50/50
Nolva: 40/40/20/20

I am looking forward for all that's to come and logging my progress with you all.  :Smilie:

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## < <Samson> >

Looks solid. . . I think the carbs a tad low. JMO

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## Trying-Hard

Thanks, Samson. 

If I am not seeing strength/size gains like I want, I will certainly up the carbs by about 40-50 grams by adding 1 cup of brown rice to my 6th meal.

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## ANIMAL

> *Diet:*
> M1: 7 egg whites, 2 whole eggs, 3/4 cup oats (dry), 1 medium banana
> *Total:645 calories/67g carbs/12g fat/56g protein/15g sugar*
> *breakfast looks good, only thing I would do is a full cup of oats.*
> 
> M2: 1 cup non fat Greek yogurt, 1 cup berries, 1 scoop whey, .5oz almonds
> *Total: 406 calories/36g carbs/8g fat/51g protein/25g sugar*
> *you don't gain anything with the berries. I know it's just flavor, but you would see much better results by switching to some ezekial granola or something along those lines for a carb, otherwise this meal looks good. If you ditched the berries you'd ditch the sugar as well.*
> 
> ...


Hey man, just shot over to your log and wanted to give you some feedback on your diet. 

It looks pretty solid, I'd watch the sugar though. I wrote out the macros in your quote and gave my .02 cents on each meal. Hope you take some of the stuff into consideration.

I've always found on a bulk, I liked 50c/30p/20f for the macro split, which would bring your totals to around 390g carbs/230g protein/70g fat and I would keep 95% of that complex carbs. That just worked for me, and everyone is different. I do higher protein when on a cut, not a bulk.

I look forward to viewing your log and seeing your progress.

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## Trying-Hard

b23,

Your feedback is much appreciated. I will take your advice into consideration and make some changes.

I am carb sensetive which is why I like to keep the carbs on the lower side and I would also like to mention that my job is very sedentary where I sit behind a computer all day long, so other than the gym, I get very minimal activity. 

I will do the following based on your suggestions:

-I *will* ditch the berries and add granola 
-I *will try* to dtich the prego sauce and add cottage cheese, but I am not gonna lie, sounds disgusting..LOL. Worse comes to worse, I will cut down on the sauce from 1 cup to .5 cup.
-I * will* ditch the mayo on the tuna and substitute it with a little olive oil 

I will incorporate your suggestions starting tomorrow. I think from that point forward my diet is pretty dialed in.

Thanks again, bro. Class act.

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## Trying-Hard

so today was the first shot that begins the 12 week cycle, and man was I nervous shooting in the quad! It took me about 15 mins to man up and inject. LOL

Once I injected, I did so in a very slow manner and I think that was a mistake. As soon as the pin (25G, 1") hit my muscle, my muscle had a spasm. I was like WTF. I ignored it (and wiped the sweat off of my forehead) and continued to press down on the pin through the muscle. Once all the way in, I tried to inject slowly and in a linear like manner, and that didn’t work either. As I tried to apply more pressure on the syringe, the syringe acted like it was "stuck" and would not inject. I pressed harder and...nothing. Pressed harder again and BOOM, injected a lot more than I wanted to due to the pressure I had on the syringe. I stopped immediately and tried again and this time, I was able to get the rest of the injection in smoothly.

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## ANIMAL

> b23,
> 
> Your feedback is much appreciated. I will take your advice into consideration and make some changes.
> 
> I am carb sensetive which is why I like to keep the carbs on the lower side and I would also like to mention that my job is very sedentary where I sit behind a computer all day long, so other than the gym, I get very minimal activity. 
> 
> I will do the following based on your suggestions:
> 
> -I *will* ditch the berries and add granola (although, isn't granola also high in sugar like the berries? I am assuming your reasoning behind this choice instead of the berries is the complex carb part of the food, right?) 
> ...


I sit at a desk all day as well, and besides the gym/cardio, I don't do any other exercise. But if you use your carbs as they were like gas in your car, then you don't have to worry about being sensitive to them. 

I tell my clients carbs is like fuel in a gas tank. You can fill your car to FULL and drive 1 mile, leave your car and come back 1 day later and still have that FULL tank of gas, same thing goes for our bodies and carbs. Like FUEL is energy for cars, carbs is energy for humans. If we consume a bunch of carbs in one meal and not do any activities that require energy, our bodies hold onto the carbs for later use. If you continue eating carbs and then eventually goto the gym for example your body will feed off the carbs it has, but chances are you have too much and you don't utilize it all, making you carb sensitive. To compensate for that, you eat carbs to the point where you will use them as energy and nothing is stored. 

The way your diet is setup having carbs in your first 2, lifting and then in the next 2 meals is perfect. In a bulk you're doing just that, bulking. If you were cutting the carb numbers wouldn't be so high and you would only do carbs in (breakfast/pre-workout/post workout).

Here is a link to the ezekial cereal/granola I was talking about. Add this to your yogurt: http://www.iherb.com/Food-For-Life-E...FYeo4AodMkkA0Q

Good carbs, no sugar.

LOL, Trust me, I thought when someone told me cold cottage cheese on hot pasta would taste disgusting, but it probably is one of my favorite meals. Add some pepper and give it a shot.

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## Trying-Hard

Thanks b23, much appreciated bro. It's a done deal! =)

GL on your cycle, you look great!

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## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

Subbed just to see where ur arms are gonna be post cycle as 18.5" arms at 5'7 and 180 is hugeee I'm 32 5'7 180 and my arms are really big when they're 17" so can't imagine yours.
Before pics man????
Good luck  :Wink:

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## Trying-Hard

> Subbed just to see where ur arms are gonna be post cycle as 18.5" arms at 5'7 and 180 is hugeee I'm 32 5'7 180 and my arms are really big when they're 17" so can't imagine yours.
> Before pics man????
> Good luck


Thanks bro. It sucks that my arms grow at an astronomical rate yet my calves and hams could take a pounding for months and months and barely put any size on. I am REALLY going to focus a lot on legs throughout this 12 week cycle.

As far as pics, they will come...=)

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## Trying-Hard

*Today, week 1, chest/tris.* 

Flat bench press:
95x15 (warm up)
135 x 15 (warm up)
225 x 10
245 x 8
250 x 7

Incline bar (already warmed up, jumped right into it)
205 x 7
205 x 7
205 x 6

Hammer incline machine (focus on volume)
140 lbs x 12
160 lbs x 8
160 lbs x 6
90 lbs x 10 (drop set)

Wanted to do one more exercise for chest but ran out of time. Then continued to tris and barely did anything because of stupid time. I will be changing the times I work out starting tomorrow for better workouts. Not looking to over-train, but looking to get an adamant workout in.

Pump was good, nothing out of the usual. Strength was basically the same, maybe 1 rep more than usual on the 250 reps.

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## Trying-Hard

Having some PIP from this morning (more than mild, less than severe). Tomorrow's leg workout is gonna have to wait until healed...

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## < <Samson> >

> Arms: 18.5"


Those are some beastly bi's. . . lol didn't even notice before.

What's your waist size? 


I got my arms to right above 18", and I still feel like they need to be bigger. But, the rest of me is in proportion. My calves are the same size as my arms(maybe just a tad smaller).

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## Trying-Hard

> Those are some beastly bi's. . . lol didn't even notice before.
> 
> What's your waist size? 
> 
> 
> I got my arms to right above 18", and I still feel like they need to be bigger. But, the rest of me is in proportion. My calves are the same size as my arms(maybe just a tad smaller).


I am assuming waist size goes hand in hand with one's pant size, and my pants are between 32-34, depending on cut style. 34 is a little big though.

And it is definitely not my bi's that are big, it's my tris. My bi's suck ass..lol

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## < <Samson> >

> I am assuming waist size goes hand in hand with one's pant size, and my pants are between 32-34, depending on cut style. 34 is a little big though.
> 
> And it is definitely not my bi's that are big, it's my tris. My bi's suck ass..lol


Right on & word. . . It took me damn near forever to get to my current arm size.

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## Trying-Hard

So I am having severe pain in my quad that I injected in this morning. And I feel very drained and very tired / ached. Can this be the "test flu" people are talking about? Heck, I thought that was BS, lol.

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## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

> So I am having severe pain in my quad that I injected in this morning. And I feel very drained and very tired / ached. Can this be the "test flu" people are talking about? Heck, I thought that was BS, lol.


Happened to me last month I could not moove my leg for 3 days severeeeeee paiiiiiiin.
I'm afraid of hitting quads for life though I hit calves bid and tris as my favorite spots but quaaaaads nooooooo f****** way  :Wink: 
It'll go away in a couple of days.

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## Trying-Hard

> Happened to me last month I could not moove my leg for 3 days severeeeeee paiiiiiiin.
> I'm afraid of hitting quads for life though I hit calves bid and tris as my favorite spots but quaaaaads nooooooo f****** way 
> It'll go away in a couple of days.


Ya, that was the first and last quad injection EVER. From this point forward, it is the glutes for me. I may try delts...wallahie I can't move my leg...lol

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## BlueWaffle21

Get some pics up from the start so we can see your progress!!!

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## ANIMAL

The first injection in each spot is always the worst. Your body sees the gear and fights it as if it was an infection (that's where the sweats, chills and temperature come from). Usually lasts 24 hours. The pain in your leg will last a few days. The first 2 weeks of your first cycle is always rough.

Also, 25G is a small needle. The smaller the needle the more pressure it creates going into your muscle. Which is why a 22/23g is ideal.

Keep working through it! The reward is worth it!

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## Trying-Hard

I may go back to a 23g x 1.5 after the experience I had with the quad injection.

Anyway...stepped on the scale this morning and I was 178.0. We got a problem here...lol. I will monitor my weight for the next 10 days and if I keep on dropping weight, I will need some major revisions. But it just DOESN'T make sense. I sat down yesterday and looked at every single nutrional label on ALL my foods and I am getting damn near 3300 calories, 320g protein, 280g carbs, and 90g fats, and for someone that is 180 lbs, that is like a 800 calorie surplus.

We shall see what happens over the next 10 days....

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## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

> I may go back to a 23g x 1.5 after the experience I had with the quad injection.
> 
> Anyway...stepped on the scale this morning and I was 178.0. We got a problem here...lol. I will monitor my weight for the next 10 days and if I keep on dropping weight, I will need some major revisions. But it just DOESN'T make sense. I sat down yesterday and looked at every single nutrional label on ALL my foods and I am getting damn near 3300 calories, 320g protein, 280g carbs, and 90g fats, and for someone that is 180 lbs, that is like a 800 calorie surplus.
> 
> We shall see what happens over the next 10 days....


This is exactly what I told u not to do don't focus on the scale ur bf is a lil on the high side so with the androgens in ur body ur body would naturally wanna be leaner if u don't overeat a ton so u might have dropped 2 lbs in weight this could be a 4lbs fat drop with a 2lbs muscle increase and after ur at a bf% that ur new hormonal level is comfortable at u can up ur cals slowly to gain more muscle.

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## Trying-Hard

I understand what you are saying, but I don't think one's body would drop any BF after only 1.5 pins total (375 mgs of test cyp)....unless I am mistaken.

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## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

> I understand what you are saying, but I don't think one's body would drop any BF after only 1.5 pins total (375 mgs of test cyp)....unless I am mistaken.


Same as that ur body would not drop muscle with ur diet workout so don't get to exited workout get ur protein and carbs in 
And let the test do its magic gradually u don't wanna blow up and end ur cycle at 20% bf @ 200lbs only to try to cut back to a ripped 180 or lean 190 in another cycle do it in one cycle and drop fat while gaining lean solid mass u can keep remember its after ur cycle that ur gonna have to eat more to keep ur gains and ur gonna gain some bf any way so try to drop fat on cycle so u don't gain too much fat post not a pretty sight.
Don't worry ur gonna gain a lot of muscle just be patient  :Wink:

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## Trying-Hard

I feel you bro..It's all good. Thanks.

Just got back from a back/bi's workout..Placebo effect is kicking in. Major lift for back was rack pulls, did 405 lbs for 12 reps. I could not do this before. Placebo Macebo, whatever..I will take it, lol.

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## Trying-Hard

End of week 1

Starting morning weight: 180.0
End of week 1: 180.6

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## Trying-Hard

I guess all the PIP is paying off. I can't believe I am feeling what I am after 1.5 weeks. 

Did bench press to start and 3 weeks ago I got 275 for 4 reps. Today I did it 7x. 

My pump was to the point where it was hurting me. I am like a little kid in a candy store.

Oh, and weight is up to. I will report it at the end of the week..=)

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## AXx

Keep it up buddy. Looking forward to your results. The scale means nothing, look at the mirror it will tell you more!!

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## Trying-Hard

Thanks, 3J. This cycle I am going to maintain my BF levels where they are now (assuming 13-14%) and just add LBM, but next cycle will be one where I will be in touch with you since I will want to be under 10% and I have never been there before. We will talk soon. =)

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## West Coast Winner

You should upload some pictures man. Sounds like a great cycle!

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## Trying-Hard

End of week 2

Starting morning weight: 180.0
End of week 1: 180.6
End of week 2: 184.0

This week I decided to up the Arimidex from .25 eod to .5 eod to control the bloat a little better. But yesterday, and after hearing many of the veterans recommend L-stane as the better AI, I ordered it from ar-r and waiting on that. I will be running that at 10mg ED per Swifto's advice (or I may go 12.5mg eod - i'll research more).

Strength gains are starting to show, but nothing out of this world. For example, before cycle I could do 275 lbs on flat bench press for 3 clean reps, and last Monday I did it 6x clean (almost 7, spotter had to barely touch the bar)

I understand why people do Prop now, waiting 5 weeks for a long ester to kick in kind of sucks, lol. I am hoping within these next couple of weeks the Cyp will really start doing its job. =)

BTW, I replaced my batch of test cyp with a new batch and my god what a difference!!! no more PIP, thank god!

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## >Good Luck<

Sweet log bro! not sure why nobody pointed out to you that PCT is late starting at 18 days after last pin. You must start PCT 14 days after last pin when using Test Cyp. 18 days would be if you choose Sustanon ... Either way, Good Luck!

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## Trying-Hard

> Sweet log bro! not sure why nobody pointed out to you that PCT is late starting at 18 days after last pin. You must start PCT 14 days after last pin when using Test Cyp. 18 days would be if you choose Sustanon... Either way, Good Luck!


Thanks, man. But be sure to look at the sticky here for PCT start times:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...s#.UDER5UL3B-0

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## >Good Luck<

> Thanks, man. But be sure to look at the sticky here for PCT start times:
> http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...s#.UDER5UL3B-0


I am highly confident that this is incorrect. Dig a little deeper and you will find that 14 days post is protocol... Unless something changed recenty and cyp is no longer the same as enan.... 


Calling all vets!

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## >Good Luck<

> Thanks, man. But be sure to look at the sticky here for PCT start times:
> http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...s#.UDER5UL3B-0


I am highly confident that this is incorrect. Dig a little deeper and you will find that 14 days post is protocol... Unless something changed recenty and cyp is no longer the same as enan.... 


Calling all vets!

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## ANIMAL

14 days on cyp

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## Trying-Hard

Hmmm...interesting. I asked about it in the PCT section. I will see what the vets say, if anything. Thanks for the heads up.

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## AXx

Keep it up buddy. Looks like your doing it.

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## arock1

seems like some solid progress going on. stay hard at it.

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## Trying-Hard

> Keep it up buddy. Looks like your doing it.





> seems like some solid progress going on. stay hard at it.


Thanks all. 

Today was chest day. Did pretty good. I can definitely see the strength gains coming in. Today I did 225 on incline bar for 11 reps, where 3 weeks ago my max was 8. Then I did 245 for 6 reps, where 3 weeks ago I did it 2x. So strength is getting there slowly but surely. I just started week 3 today and I am especially looking forward to weeks 5 and 6 as that is when I hear the strength and the physical gains really commence..=)

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## Trying-Hard

Edit

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## ruhkus

I wouldn't call those slow strength increases 2 reps at 245 to 6 reps in 3 weeks. That seems über fast to me. But I have only ever trained natty, which is why I an lingering here with such interest. Might want to try the exact same thing you are on. I'm curious as to how much water weight you'll hold and how to lean out at the end.

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## Trying-Hard

> I wouldn't call those slow strength increases 2 reps at 245 to 6 reps in 3 weeks. That seems über fast to me. But I have only ever trained natty, which is why I an lingering here with such interest. Might want to try the exact same thing you are on. I'm curious as to how much water weight you'll hold and how to lean out at the end.


Thanks. Ya, I think I am a little hard on myself as a few others have said the same. 

As far as holding water, you can see in my above post that I am more bloated in week 3 versus week 1, which is why I upped my AI from .25mg eod to .5mg eod. But keep in mind that I am not cutting, I am bulking right now, so it's inevitable to get some water retention due to my diet. I am not planning on leaning out at the end of the cycle. I am going to wait for my second cycle to take a "cutting" drug w/ test.

Right now, it's time to pack on the weight..=)

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## Trying-Hard

Just got back from the gym. Did heavy squats and then finished the rest of the workout with high volume reps on leg press and leg extensions. My god I wanted to cry, but got to get these chicken legs to GROW.

315 for 8 on squats, ass to the ground (almost)

Great workout tonight!

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## Trying-Hard

Week 4 was a very bad week for me. I had to go on a business trip which killed my diet plan. I ended up injecting 500 mg at once on thursday since I knew I was going to miss the injection on the following Monday. I was at least able to workout though and I did not miss a body part. I finally achieved my long term goal of benching 315, so that was exciting.

Starting morning weight: 180.0
End of week 1: 180.6
End of week 2: 184.0
End of week 3: 187.2
End of week 4: 186.4

Now I am back from the business trip and it is time to get it back on. I hear week 5+ is where all the magic happens. I am looking forward to getting back on schedule...=)

EDIT: I also started HCG at the end of week 4. I took 500 IUs on last Thursday, will be taking 500 IUs on Mon / Thu of this week, and then week 6 I will start with the 250 IUs on injection days.

HCG will go throughout the entire cycle. I have read though that some recommend to keep on taking it until 5 days before PCT, or something of that sort. I will look it up but if anyone has any suggestions on when to stop talking HCG, I'd appreciate the advice. Thanks.

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## West Coast Winner

> Week 4 was a very bad week for me. I had to go on a business trip which killed my diet plan. I ended up injecting 500 mg at once on thursday since I knew I was going to miss the injection on the following Monday. I was at least able to workout though and I did not miss a body part. I finally achieved my long term goal of benching 315, so that was exciting.
> 
> Starting morning weight: 180.0
> End of week 1: 180.6
> End of week 2: 184.0
> End of week 3: 187.2
> End of week 4: 186.4
> 
> Now I am back from the business trip and it is time to get it back on. I hear week 5+ is where all the magic happens. I am looking forward to getting back on schedule...=)


Man ya week 5+ is the shiiiiizzzz

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## Trying-Hard

So this week is week 5 and I am hoping to start seeing some major weight / strength gains. As of today, I have gained about 7-8 lbs. I am assuming this is a decent pace for a long ester like Cyp. My strength in the gym is up, but not exponentially or anything, but definitely noticeable.

I did legs yesterday and I was able to squat 315 for 10, 2 more rep than last week. 10th one was a struggle.

I started HCG at the end of last week and man, what a difference already! Just after 1000 total IUs, my boys went from very small to back to normal like they were prior to the cycle. I am very happy with this. Here is what I did / doing: (Keep in mind I am in week 5 now pinning Cyp Mon / Thr and HCG on same days)

End of week 4: 500 IUs on Thursday
Week 5: 500 IUs on Monday, 500 IUs on Thursday
Week 6-12: 250 IUs on Monday, 250 IUs on Thursday 

Week 13: 500 IUs on Monday, 500 IUs on Thursday
Week 14: 500 IUs on Monday, 500 IUs on Thursday

SERMS (Clomid, Nolva) starts on the following Monday (which is 4 days after last HCG shot)

I will be sure to report my morning weight at the end of this week. I cant' wait to step on the scale and see 190 in the morning..=) (yes, i know, the scale doesn't mean much, but I am not gonna lie, I get very excited when it reads higher, haha)

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## Trying-Hard

Edit

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## ANIMAL

Good stuff man! Keep it up!!

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## Trying-Hard

> Good stuff man! Keep it up!!


Thanks bro. You look phenomenal, BTW! =)

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## ANIMAL

> Thanks bro. You look phenomenal, BTW! =)


Thanks dude! We seem to both be hitting week 5 together. If I could sleep in the gym I would lol. I don't want to leave.

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## stpete

As mentioned, stop looking at the scale. Keep up the good work!

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## Trying-Hard

> Thanks dude! We seem to both be hitting week 5 together. If I could sleep in the gym I would lol. I don't want to leave.


HAHA. I hear ya.




> As mentioned, stop looking at the scale. Keep up the good work!


I know man, bad habit! And thanks!

Just got done with my Thursday injection of Cyp and HCG . Hot damn I just can't get used to the initial burn of HCG. lol

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## Trying-Hard

Shoulder work out today. I had about 45 mins total to do them and had to work out at a very fast pace, which I DON'T like to do. I guess it's OK though given that it was a change of routine and we all know change is good. I guess it was mostly my fault for taking a lot of rest in the beginning of the workout to see what I can do with standing military barbell press. I just started doing this exercise recently and before cycle I couldn't do 135 for 7 while today I did 135 for 12, so that was nice to see. 

Other than that, nothing exciting. I get MAJOR lactic acid build up in my shoulders, more so than any other muscle by FAR. I don't know why this happens, but it does. Even when I take 3-4 breaks between sets, my shoulders still get fatigued and worked up very quickly.

Anyway, week 5 comes to an end this Sunday and so far, so good. Nothing out of the ordinary as far as strength gains, but a slow, steady pace in gains. Looking forward to seeing what week 6 brings.

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## Trying-Hard

BK whopper and chicken sandwich just hit the spot!! Man, it's been a WHILE since I had a cheat meal. Felt great! lol

EDIT: Not sure why there is an angry icon in this post.

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## Trying-Hard

Today marks end of week 5. 

Starting morning weight: 180.0
End of week 1: 180.6
End of week 2: 184.0
End of week 3: 187.2
End of week 4: 186.4
End of week 5: 187.4

Is gaining 7 lbs after 5 weeks a decent pace? I feel a little disappointed given some of the numbers I hear on here, but I know everyone is different and I am pretty sure I have gained very little water weight instead of a lot.

EDIT: I am also thinking about switching my shots from Monday morning & Thursday evening to Sunday morning and Wednesday night. Both are 3.5 days apart, just switching the days. The reason why is because my wife has a hard time waking up monday morning just to give me the shot before I go to work. With a newborn, she needs all the rest she can get. What do you guys think of this and more importantly, will this have any negative effect? I am assuming NO but I want to ask and make sure. TIA

EDIT2: My nipples are starting to get erect and sensitive more often that usual. So what I want to do is start taking Nolvadex ED @ 20 mg throughout entire cycle and up until day of PCT, and also take 12.5mg of liquidstane ED (instead of EOD) throughout entire cycle and up until PCT. I think this may be a good starting point.

*ANIMAL, what do you think?*

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## Buster Brown

Those are good weight gains week to week. Rule 101: Don't compare yourself to the other guys in terms of gains, you WILL drive yourself nuts. The scale isn't something to live and die by either.

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## Trying-Hard

> Those are good weight gains week to week.


Good to hear. I had my self a little worried and started to stare at my diet making sure all is well with it, but at 3500 calories of basically all clean food, I really don't think there is much improvements to be made. I just must be hard on myself...

The scale isn't something to live by, I know....but it is something that is an indication of my progress since my BF is basically sustained, along with strength gains in the gym.

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## ANIMAL

> Today marks end of week 5. 
> 
> Starting morning weight: 180.0
> End of week 1: 180.6
> End of week 2: 184.0
> End of week 3: 187.2
> End of week 4: 186.4
> End of week 5: 187.4
> 
> ...


First there is no problem switching your shots. I was doing mine on Mon/Thur and had to switch to tues/fri. It won't have any adverse effect. 

I'd start 40mg of nolva. You'll probably only need to be at that dosage for a few days as you may see immediate results and then you can back off to 20mg for a week to make sure your symptoms are gone. I'd then drop to 10mg up until PCT then do your typical PCT protocol.

As for the stane, bump to 25mg. Same thing with the nolva if you just have sensitivity you won't need to be at that dose for long. Then I'd back down to 12.5mg once you drop the nolva to 20mg. 

That's what I would do if it were me. If you start the nolva at 20mg you may need to take it longer to see results and you want to get rid of the symptoms asap. I felt like shit at the high doses but it did its job. Then when I came back down to 20mg nolva and 12.5mg my body took a day to adjust and I'm back to feeling really good. No sensitivity and no lumps.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> First there is no problem switching your shots. I was doing mine on Mon/Thur and had to switch to tues/fri. It won't have any adverse effect. 
> 
> I'd start 40mg of nolva. You'll probably only need to be at that dosage for a few days as you may see immediate results and then you can back off to 20mg for a week to make sure your symptoms are gone. I'd then drop to 10mg up until PCT then do your typical PCT protocol.
> 
> As for the stane, bump to 25mg. Same thing with the nolva if you just have sensitivity you won't need to be at that dose for long. Then I'd back down to 12.5mg once you drop the nolva to 20mg. 
> 
> That's what I would do if it were me. If you start the nolva at 20mg you may need to take it longer to see results and you want to get rid of the symptoms asap. I felt like shit at the high doses but it did its job. Then when I came back down to 20mg nolva and 12.5mg my body took a day to adjust and I'm back to feeling really good. No sensitivity and no lumps.


Thanks bro. So just to recap to make sure I understand you 100%:

Take 40mg of Nolva and 25mg of l-stane simultaneously until sensitivity diminishes (this could be a few days or a week). Once sensitivity diminishes, drop the Nolva to 20mg ED for 1 week and drop L-stane to 12.5mg ED for 1 week. Then if all is well after that week, drop the Nolva to 10mg and take that ED until the day of PCT, and continue with the L-stane at 12.5mg and take that ED until day of PCT. Then obviously follow PCT protocol when time comes.

Do I have that right?

EDIT: I am now taking 500 IUs/wk of HCG (250 on each test injection day), so should I skip that for the next week or would 500 IUs total not be a big deal? I know HCG raises E levels which is why I am asking. Thanks again.

----------


## ANIMAL

> Thanks bro. So just to recap to make sure I understand you 100%:
> 
> Take 40mg of Nolva and 25mg of l-stane simultaneously until sensitivity diminishes (this could be a few days or a week). Once sensitivity diminishes, drop the Nolva to 20mg ED for 1 week and drop L-stane to 12.5mg ED for 1 week. Then if all is well after that week, drop the Nolva to 10mg and take that ED until the day of PCT, and continue with the L-stane at 12.5mg and take that ED until day of PCT. Then obviously follow PCT protocol when time comes.
> 
> Do I have that right?
> 
> EDIT: I am now taking 500 IUs/wk of HCG (250 on each test injection day), so should I skip that for the next week or would 500 IUs total not be a big deal? I know HCG raises E levels which is why I am asking. Thanks again.


You got it. As for the HCG I'd continue with the 250iu per shot. If you had a lump then I'd say drop it. The nolva and stane will take care of your symptoms and you'll be able to continue the HCG. 

Any reason why you waited until week 5 to start the HCG?

----------


## Trying-Hard

Thanks bro, much appreciated. I began this gyno protocol today.

I started HCG end of week 4 I did not find it necessary to start taking it from day 1 given that it takes 3-4 weeks alone for the fellas to start shrinking and the test to even kick in. Right as week 4 started, I noticed them getting much smaller which was exactly when I was due to start the HCG. The stuff is like magic though because after 3 shots of 500 IUs, they are back and as large and in charge as ever..=)

Next cycle I may start HCG at 250 IUs from 1st shot, not sure yet. I am obviously gyno prone so I will have to think about how I will go about the next cycle and how I will incorporate/dose AI/SERM from day 1. I'll get that info when time comes.

----------


## ANIMAL

Yea, I had the same reasoning on the HCG , just wanted to hear what your understanding was. I wanted to start on week 4, but had to wait until this week (start of week 6) to start because of the gyno. I may extend my cycle from 12 weeks to 14 weeks for that reason.

I'm still undecided if I want to cycle the HCG 2 weeks on 2 weeks off and then ran in PCT or if I want to run it now for the remaining 6 weeks of the cycle and leave it out in PCT. But science (not broscience) is leading me to cycle it and do a blast in PCT.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> Yea, I had the same reasoning on the HCG , just wanted to hear what your understanding was. I wanted to start on week 4, but had to wait until this week (start of week 6) to start because of the gyno. I may extend my cycle from 12 weeks to 14 weeks for that reason.
> 
> I'm still undecided if I want to cycle the HCG 2 weeks on 2 weeks off and then ran in PCT or if I want to run it now for the remaining 6 weeks of the cycle and leave it out in PCT. But science (not broscience) is leading me to cycle it and do a blast in PCT.


Well, let's keep eachother posted because it looks like I am planning on doing the opposite of you, so we can learn from one another. I started HCG end of week 4 and my first (3) shots were 500 IUs, and from this point forward it will be 250 IUs until 5 days before PCT where I will drop it completely. But I gotta tell you, I think I am most impressed with the HCG so far than anything else. Read post #24:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...e-Check-Please!!!

Anyway, GL bro and we will stay in touch to hear about your recovery with your method (if you decide to go that route) and my recovery with mine. I am sure both are better than nothing..=)

----------


## Trying-Hard

Chest today. First workout of week 6. Come on 275 for 8 on bench!!!!! lol. I'll report back tonight.

ANIMAL, I don't know if it is in my head or not, but I swear my nipples are not sensetive anymore. Can it be that only after two days of dosing the AI/SERM that the sensetivity subsides? Hmm..

----------


## ANIMAL

> Chest today. First workout of week 6. Come on 275 for 8 on bench!!!!! lol. I'll report back tonight.
> 
> ANIMAL, I don't know if it is in my head or not, but I swear my nipples are not sensetive anymore. Can it be that only after two days of dosing the AI/SERM that the sensetivity subsides? Hmm..


No, it works that fast if it's just sensitivity. Stay on those doses for 1 more day and then taper down to what we discussed. You may be able to drop the nolva after you taper and just keep the stane ED at 12.5mg.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> No, it works that fast if it's just sensitivity. Stay on those doses for 1 more day and then taper down to what we discussed. You may be able to drop the nolva after you taper and just keep the stane ED at 12.5mg.


Thanks bro. Will do.

----------


## Trying-Hard

Just got done with chest/tris. Unfortunately, I am not any stronger than I was 2 weeks ago. Is it possible that the test still has not kicked in 100%? Today is my first day of week 6. I know, I am one impatient mofo, lol. Getting a little discouraged but I am going to be patient. 

Flat bench:
135 15x (warm up)
185 15x (warm up)
225 10x
275 6x
275 5x

Incline bench:
185 10x
225 6x (could have done 8, but wanted to save energy for last set)
225 7x

Incline hammer machine:
180 lbs (+ machine) 10x
230 lbs 8x
230 lbs 8x

Cable flys:
light weight, 15 reps x2

Then I finished off some with tris. Nothing too exciting.

Overall, good workout, good pump, and I feel good. I just want to see improvements in the gym a little faster.

Legs tomorrow!

----------


## ANIMAL

> Just got done with chest/tris. Unfortunately, I am not any stronger than I was 2 weeks ago. Getting a little discouraged but I am going to be patient.
> 
> Flat bench:
> 135 15x (warm up)
> 185 15x (warm up)
> 225 10x
> 275 6x
> 275 5x
> 
> ...


Instead of doing a second set of 275 for 5 you can do 295 and bang out 3-4, strip the weight to 185 and rep out ending with a drop set. Then the following week hit 295 for 5 or 315 for 4 and finish with a drop set to failure.

Need to put on weight to gain strength. That's how I've always trained whether I was cutting or bulking. Give it a shot. Don't get discouraged. Go into the lift saying you're going to do it.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> Instead of doing a second set of 275 for 5 you can do 295 and bang out 3-4, strip the weight to 185 and rep out ending with a drop set. Then the following week hit 295 for 5 or 315 for 4 and finish with a drop set to failure.


Man, I wish it was that easy, lol. 275 is heavy for me. I can do it 6x, but when I get to the 6th one it is a struggle. The 7th one I need help. If I were to do 295, I would get it 2-3 max (I max out at 315). But I know what you are saying and I agree, that if one wants to get stronger, they got to lift heavy, and I used to lift heavy until I realized I am working my joints more than my muscles, and that is when I added the philosophy of....if I can't do something 6x clean and by myself, it's too much weight. If I can do something 6x clean and by myself, then it is time to move up in weight. So why didn't I move up to 285 or 295 when I did 275 for 6 clean? I don't know, lol. I most certainly will next time I do flat bench.

I guess I just had the image of the test helping me and if I was able to do 275 for 6x week 4, why am I still only doing it 6x on week 6? This is what is bothering me. Either I am being too hard on myself, or I am not being patient.

Thanks bro. Looking forward to hearing some updates on your thread.

----------


## Trying-Hard

Hit legs on Tuesday, and the insertion point of my muscle into my knee (that area) was killing me. I have had this problem for a long time and all the docs say is "you need to lay off of lifting heavy weights" ya....umm, no! So the workout wasn't very good, but I managed to get all my reps/sets in. Some highlights.

Quads (in order)
Leg press, 7 plates each side, 10x (I like volume)
Squats, 315, 8x (I was dead tired from all the leg presses, and my pain was very bad and I couldn't push with my legs like I wanted)
Leg extensions, 3 sets, cant recal weight
walking lunges with 30lb dbs

Yesterday did back/bis. Some highlights (exercises not in order)

Bent over-rows, 225, 10x
wide grip lat pull down, 170, 10x
seat rows, 220, 10x
t-bar rows, 3 plates, 8x
some strange exercise
below the knee rack pull downs, 315, 10x

I know a lot of you may think I need to up the weight and lower the reps, and while I do agree I should, I just feel my body is so damn fragile and suspect to joint pains. I am the kind of guy that has wrists/ankles smaller than your girlfriend's. I think my bones are hollow..lol. I am basically in pain everyday after I lift, and it is not a form issue as I practice perfect form (or try to, at least). So going heavy for me is not something my body/joints responds well to.

----------


## Trying-Hard

No change in weight this week. So week 3-6 there has been no change in weight, and I am eating damn ear 4K calories/day.

Getting blood work next week to check Testosterone (free and total), Estrogen levels, Lipid profiles, CBC, complete metabolic panel, FSH and LH.

SOmething has to be going on for me not to be gaining weight. 

Anyone know what is the normal range of Estrogen levels?

----------


## Trying-Hard

Starting morning weight: 180.0
End of week 1: 180.6
End of week 2: 184.0
End of week 3: 187.2
End of week 4: 186.4
End of week 5: 187.4
End of week 6: 187.2
End of week 7: 189.4

I got my blood test back. Most everything was good, test levels were high (although I don't know exact number since I apparently ordered the wrong test), but my LDL was too high (39) so I am taking something for that for the time being.

I still have not gotten my estrogen levels back...I guess this test takes 7 days.

5 weeks left, and at this rate it is looking like my end weight will be right around 192 if I had to guess. We shall see what happens.

----------


## austinite

^ good gains. Any changes in body fat? Where is your test level sitting at and what test did you get? Have you been checking your blood pressure?

----------


## Trying-Hard

> ^ good gains. Any changes in body fat? Where is your test level sitting at and what test did you get? Have you been checking your blood pressure?


I have not been monitoring my bodyfat in any way except appearance. My bf, if I had to guess by what my eyes tell me, has not changed even a +/- 1%

As far as my T level, I don't know exactly where they sit. When I got my results back, it said my T levels are >1,500 (flagged "high") but it did not tell me exactly the number. So am I 1520? 1550? 2500? I dont know, sadly. I ordered "free and total" Testosterone , but apparently I had to specify if I wanted the results to tell me a specific number if above 1500. IDK, I will have to research it next time because this was a waste of money and time (sort of)

BP is 120/70 as of 1 week ago.

----------


## stpete

Nice lean gains. And if indeed you do end up there and happen to keep them, you have done great.

----------


## Trying-Hard

Thanks stpete.

Well guys, today is the FIRST day that I went to the gym and I actually noticed something. It took a whole whoppin SEVEN WEEKS for me to feel what I felt today. Talk about the test kicking in wayyyy late! Now I only have 5 weeks left and I am bummed. *So, any objections to extending the cycle from 12 weeks to 14 weeks??*

Anyway, chest and tris today. Massive pump and finally, noticeable strength gains.

Incline DBs:
25s (warm up)
50s (warm up)
60s (warm up)
100s 13x
110s 10x (could have done 12)

I wanted to do one more set so bad of 115s or 120s, but not having a spotter and all the excitement rushing through me, I called it quits there.

Flat bench:
225 10x
245 8x
265 6x
drop set, 185, 10x

Incline hammer:
200 lbs, 3 sets of 8

Some tris to finish off the day. Not heavy, just reps. My triceps are way too over developed anyway.

I am happy to finally feel that I am actually on something. =)

----------


## Trying-Hard

So after talking to a few vets on here and explaining that it took me 7 full weeks for the test to kick in, I have decided (and they agreed) to lengthen my cycle from 12 to 14 weeks. It wasn't until week 6 that I started getting some acne and the first day of week 8 to notice strength gains. So I am very excited to see what happens at the end of 14 weeks. I would love to get to 195+ morning weight. 

I have also started to pin HCG two days after cyp injections to keep T levels more stable (Swifto's recommendation)

Did legs yesterday and like always, I have pain in my knees and surrounding muscles so I can't hit them as hard as I want and that is very unfortunate since my legs are by far my weakest body part. But at least I get in there and hit them as hard as I possibly can. They are not small, but are not up to par with my upper body and it drives me nuts. =(

Leg extensions:
5 sets of warm up

Leg press:
3 plates (each side) 20 reps
4 plates, 20 reps
5 plates, 15 reps
6 plates, 15 reps
7 plates, 10 reps

Hack squats:
1 plate, 10 reps
2 plates, 10 reps
2 plates & 10 lbs, 10 reps
drop set with 1 plate, 10 reps

Leg extensions:
3 sets of 15 with moderate weight

My quads were FRIED at this point and I called it quits.

Back and bi's today but I may take the day off and get back to the gym on Thr, Fri, Sat and then take Sun off.

----------


## OnTheSauce

Most hack squat machines kill my knees.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> Most hack squat machines kill my knees.


Every leg exercise hurts my knees, but I know what you mean with the hack squats. I just put my feet very high up on the foot pad to minimize knee pain. It works, but only to some extent, and this is the way it is for me on ALL leg exercises. It seriously SUCKS!

BTW, I updated cycle and diet info on my OP.

I will take measurements this week for comparison and post them up given that I am at a tad over the half way point of my cycle.

----------


## ANIMAL

Aren't you concerned during PCT not having any HCG when test levels start to drop and the body is all out of whack? I'm trying to justify sticking to 250iu from here on out instead of the 2 week on/2 week off method with a blast during PCT.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> Aren't you concerned during PCT not having any HCG when test levels start to drop and the body is all out of whack? I'm trying to justify sticking to 250iu from here on out instead of the 2 week on/2 week off method with a blast during PCT.


I am being told to NOT incorporate HCG during PCT, but to keep on using it throughout cycle and up to 5 days before PCT. My exact plan is as follows:

Week 14 - finish cycle (still doing 500 IUs/wk here, along with AI protocol)
Week 15 - 16: 1000 IU/wk, along with AI protocol
Week 17 - 20: PCT (Clomid/Nolva - drop AI and HCG)

----------


## ANIMAL

> I am being told to NOT incorporate HCG during PCT, but to keep on using it throughout cycle and up to 5 days before PCT. My exact plan is as follows:
> 
> Week 14 - finish cycle (still doing 500 IUs/wk here, along with AI protocol)
> Week 15 - 16: 1000 IU/wk, along with AI protocol
> Week 17 - 20: PCT (Clomid/Nolva - drop AI and HCG)


Right, I get that part. But I'm looking for more facts then people saying "don't do hcg during PCT". Like, what is the reason why people don't suggest HCG in PCT. I can give you reasons why it should be included, but I have only read people say "don't" with ZERO facts or reasoning other then "I read it on the forum from a guy who looks like Arnold."

----------


## MickeyKnox

^^ run your hcg on cycle and up to the beginning of your pct. pin hcg one day before your test for max results.

----------


## MickeyKnox

> Right, I get that part. But I'm looking for more facts then people saying "don't do hcg during PCT". Like, what is the reason why people don't suggest HCG in PCT. I can give you reasons why it should be included, but I have only read people say "don't" with ZERO facts or reasoning other then "I read it on the forum from a guy who looks like Arnold."


why would you WANT testicular atrophy?? if you could prevent it on cycle would you? and if you ran hcg on cycle you would not be entering your pct and requiring hcg to assist in restarting hpta. your restart is a lot smother and easier if your testies are functioning when entering pct portion of your cycle. this is what i beleive based on information from Dr. Chrisler, Dr Shippen, and a host of AAS users with tons of current experience.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> ^^ run your hcg on cycle and up to the beginning of your pct. pin hcg one day before your test for max results.


Right, that is what I am doing (as you can see from my post #82) excepet I pin HCG 2 days after my test cyp injections to keep T levels stable. I am also stopping HCG 4-5days before PCT (these are all Swifto's recommendations. If you don't agree, I'd love to hear why)




> why would you WANT testicular atrophy?? if you could prevent it on cycle would you? and if you ran hcg on cycle you would not be entering your pct and requiring hcg to assist in restarting hpta. your restart is a lot smother and easier if your testies are functioning when entering pct portion of your cycle. this is what i beleive based on information from Dr. Chrisler, Dr Shippen, and a host of AAS users with tons of current experience.


This was also my understanding, but I know ANIMAL said he has spoken with very experienced bodybuilders/doctors who recommend another route for HCG. So who knows....

----------


## MickeyKnox

not sure what Swifto's reasoning is for stopping 5 days prior to pct. BUT, im sure has a good one.  :Smilie: 

all i know is i pin hcg twice a wk one day before my test based on published studies from arguably the two foremost authorities on the planet on this subject. my inclusion of hcg up pct is based on twice a wk pinning. my last hcg pin lands on the day before my last test pin. it's simple and it works. 

as far as Animal and his info goes, i cannot comment on that. those are his findings based on his research.  :Smilie:

----------


## Trying-Hard

> not sure what Swifto's reasoning is for stopping 5 days prior to pct. BUT, im sure has a good one. 
> 
> all i know is i pin hcg twice a wk one day before my test based on published studies from arguably the two foremost authorities on the planet on this subject. my inclusion of hcg up pct is based on twice a wk pinning. my last hcg pin lands on the day before my last test pin. it's simple and it works. 
> 
> as far as Animal and his info goes, i cannot comment on that. those are his findings based on his research.


Interesting. I'll see if I can get Swifto to chime in if he has time. Thanks for the info.

----------


## ANIMAL

I'm not knocking anyone, nor am I saying I have the golden ticket for HCG lol. Just trying to get all the information possible and reasoning.

If you stop HCG 2 weeks before PCT and you're not taking in any test what's going to make the LH levels come back? What's going to make your balls make test with no HCG and LH is down?

This is the grey area for me to understand the reasoning.

----------


## Swifto

> not sure what Swifto's reasoning is for stopping 5 days prior to pct. BUT, im sure has a good one. 
> 
> all i know is i pin hcg twice a wk one day before my test based on published studies from arguably the two foremost authorities on the planet on this subject. my inclusion of hcg up pct is based on twice a wk pinning. my last hcg pin lands on the day before my last test pin. it's simple and it works. 
> 
> as far as Animal and his info goes, i cannot comment on that. those are his findings based on his research.


Because when we inject HCG endogenous testosterone spikes twice, not once. It spikes it the first time almost immediately and then the larger spike in Test is around 72 hours. During this peroid there is a leydig cell refractory peroid, where the leydig cells are non-responsive. We don't want to be going into PCT (even fro a few day) with our leydig cells un-responsive and testes unable to increase Test.

This refractory peroid is over if we do our final injection more than 4-5 days out from PCT. The added endogenous Test, if we went into PCT, may also cause androgen and estrogen inhibition at the hypothalamus if used too close to PCT IMO as well.

Endogenous LH levels can rise farily quickly during PCT, in days, not weeks too.

Good enough reason?  :Smilie:

----------


## Trying-Hard

> I'm not knocking anyone, nor am I saying I have the golden ticket for HCG lol. Just trying to get all the information possible and reasoning.
> 
> If you stop HCG 2 weeks before PCT and you're not taking in any test what's going to make the LH levels come back? What's going to make your balls make test with no HCG and LH is down?
> 
> This is the grey area for me to understand the reasoning.


HCG will be stopped 4-5 days before PCT, not 2 weeks before PCT. Not sure if your question would still apply or not knowing this.

Anyway, I sent a PM to Swifto and I hope he can shed some light.

EDIT: Thanks, Swifto!!

----------


## ANIMAL

> HCG will be stopped 4-5 days before PCT, not 2 weeks before PCT. Not sure if your question would still apply or not knowing this.
> 
> Anyway, I sent a PM to Swifto and I hope he can shed some light.
> 
> EDIT: Thanks, Swifto!!


The 2 weeks before PCT was directed towards mickey, not you.

----------


## Swifto

> HCG will be stopped 4-5 days before PCT, not 2 weeks before PCT. Not sure if your question would still apply or not knowing this.
> 
> Anyway, I sent a PM to Swifto and I hope he can shed some light.
> 
> EDIT: Thanks, Swifto!!


My pleasure.

HCG can be stopped 2 weeks before, thats not essentially wrong. But I'd rather keep the testes functioning/full in that time peroid, not just waiting when androgen levels are falling from the said Testosterone preparation exiting the body.

----------


## MickeyKnox

> Because when we inject HCG endogenous testosterone spikes twice, not once. It spikes it the first time almost immediately and then the larger spike in Test is around 72 hours. During this peroid there is a leydig cell refractory peroid, where the leydig cells are non-responsive. We don't want to be going into PCT (even fro a few day) with our leydig cells un-responsive and testes unable to increase Test.
> 
> This refractory peroid is over if we do our final injection more than 4-5 days out from PCT. The added endogenous Test, if we went into PCT, may also cause androgen and estrogen inhibition at the hypothalamus if used too close to PCT IMO as well.
> 
> Endogenous LH levels can rise farily quickly during PCT, in days, not weeks too.
> 
> Good enough reason?


thanks for your input Swifto. 

could you provide a link to the medical study youre referencing so that i may read it and include it in my hcg material? again, thanks for chiming in.

----------


## Trying-Hard

Back workout tonight. Got in the gym late so I cut it short a little. 

Wide grip lat pull down:
100 lbs, 15x (warm up)
120 lbs, 15x (warm up)
150 lbs, 10x
170 lbs, 10x
180 lbs, 10x

Seated rows:
200 lbs, 3 x 10

T-bar rows:
2 plates, 10x
3 plates, 10x
3.25 plates, 8x

Below the knee rack pulls:
225, 10x
315, 10x
365, 8x (could have done 10)

Finished off with some bis.

I usually do 4 upper back exercises and 1 lower back exercise for a total of 5 back exercises, but today I did 3 upper back and 1 lower back exercise for a total of 4 back exercises. I think I liked it better this way.

----------


## Trying-Hard

Took Friday and Saturday off, so I missed shoulders (don't care), calves & hams (this is a big deal to me). But I just feel like I need to rest my body a few days.

Back at it Monday.

Starting morning weight: 180.0
End of week 1: 180.6
End of week 2: 184.0
End of week 3: 187.2
End of week 4: 186.4
End of week 5: 187.4
End of week 6: 187.2
End of week 7: 189.4
End of week 8: 191.8

6 weeks to go.....

----------


## MickeyKnox

^^ looking good bro.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> ^^ looking good bro.


Thanks, Mickey.

----------


## Trying-Hard

Got some updated measurements today. All are 100% cold.

Week 1: Arms: 18.5"
Week 8: Arms: 19"

Week 1: Chest: 46.25" 
Week 8: Chest: 48.5" 

Week 1: Shoulders: 52.5"
Week 8: Shoulders: 54"

Week 1: Upper legs: 26"
Week 8: Upper legs: 27"

BF: Not so sure, but I feel/look like I am at a very similar BF when started.

Tomorrow starts 1st day of week 9.

----------


## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

Wow 19" arms remember we talked about this...now it's happening and the remaining weeks u should feel much better and stronger on test e .

----------


## Trying-Hard

ALL,

Please read this thread I created yesterday after getting my BW back regarding estrogen levels!!!

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...!#.UGmFGbe9Kc2

Cliff notes: I was taking the standard protocol of l-stane (12.5mg eod) and for my body, it is evident that is not nearly enough to keep E levels under control. I will be switching to Pham grade Adex @ .5mg Ed for 7 days then .5mg eod for the rest of cycle leading into PCT. BW results to follow in 2-3 weeks from today.

HUGE thanks to all that helped, especially austinite!!

----------


## ANIMAL

Just read your thread. Are you experiencing any side effects in regards to having those estrogen levels? IE. gyno, loss of libido, fatigue etc.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> Just read your thread. Are you experiencing any side effects in regards to having those estrogen levels? IE. gyno, loss of libido, fatigue etc.


Libido is through the roof, but I am definitely tired (but as we talked about, that could very well be from my lack of sleep). As far as gyno, I only got symptoms and when I incorporated your protocol for it, everything was ok.

BP was also ok at 124/82. Not perfect, but not bad. I would say the only real side I got from this high of estrogen level are the gyno symptoms and sensitivity. 

On my way out the door now to pick up prescription Adex. Not taking any chances with my source's AI or ar-r .

----------


## Trying-Hard

Chest workout was great!! Strength really starting to come in. I am glad I decided to lengthen the cycle to 14 weeks given that it took this long for strength gains to kick in, and I would also like to see where I get to when I dont have elevated E levels in my system.

Anyways....

Incline DB:
25 x 20 (warm up)
45 x 20 (warm up)
60 x 20 (warm up)
80 x 12
100 x 10
115 x 8

Flat barbell:
245 x 10
265 x 8
275 x 6 
185 x 10 (drop set)

Seated chest press
210 x 10 (2 sets)
135 x 10 (drop set)

Finished off with some tris.

I am looking forward to getting my Estrogen levels under control. I am assuming this whole time my gains were inhibited by the elevated Estrogen levels....(just guessing)

----------


## austinite

Awesome, TH! Keep killing it at the gym! And thanks for sharing your estro experience with everyone. Adds a great deal of knowledge to your thread. Good work.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> Awesome, TH! Keep killing it at the gym! And thanks for sharing your estro experience with everyone. Adds a great deal of knowledge to your thread. Good work.


Thanks buddy!!

----------


## Trying-Hard

Did shoulders today. I decided a few weeks ago that I am going to take it easy on shoulder day. I am sick of injuries and understand that shoulders are being worked on many occasions like chest, back, arms, etc. So now on shoulder days I do a maximum of 9 sets and go light-moderate in weight and call it good. I have been doing this for 2weeks and should have started it 2 years ago. 

Week 9 is almost over...hello week 10 with 5 weeks to go!!

----------


## Trying-Hard

Starting morning weight: 180.0
End of week 1: 180.6
End of week 2: 184.0
End of week 3: 187.2
End of week 4: 186.4
End of week 5: 187.4
End of week 6: 187.2
End of week 7: 189.4
End of week 8: 191.8
End of week 9: 192.4

Talk about slooowwwwww gains. I am OK with it as long as I keep 95% of it before next cycle..lol. 

I am still taking .5mg Adex ED and will continue to do so through tomorrow. Then I will drop it to .5 EOD for 7 more days. After that, I will get BW to see where my E2 levels are and hoping for them to have dropped to normal range.

9 weeks down, 5 to go....

----------


## austinite

Slow gains are quality gains! Those who gain fast lose it fast. Just keep doing what you're doing... Thanks for updating. Looking forward to seeing the new bloodwork.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> Slow gains are quality gains! Those who gain fast lose it fast. Just keep doing what you're doing... Thanks for updating. Looking forward to seeing the new bloodwork.


Thanks bro. I sent you a PM, hopefully you can give me your .02.

I am learning a lot about my body this cycle...hot damn..lol

----------


## Trying-Hard

Starting morning weight: 180.0
End of week 1: 180.6
End of week 2: 184.0
End of week 3: 187.2
End of week 4: 186.4
End of week 5: 187.4
End of week 6: 187.2
End of week 7: 189.4
End of week 8: 191.8
End of week 9: 192.4
End of week 10: 194.6

I actually hit 195.0 morning weight yesterday, but since the official weigh-in is every Sunday morning and not Saturday morning, the 195.0 is unofficial, lol. So by end of week 11, I *should* be 195+ morning weight.

195 morning weight was my goal from the start, and now that I have achieved this goal, I am not sure if I will extend the cycle to 14 weeks or call it quits at 12 weeks like originally planned. I will see what happens within the next few weeks and make a decision then.

----------


## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

U look monstrous good job man!!!
U'll be a beast when u do a cutting cycle if u decide to...

----------


## Trying-Hard

> U look monstrous good job man!!!
> U'll be a beast when u do a cutting cycle if u decide to...


Thanks bro. 

I don't think I am big enough to cut. When I do cut, I would like to be at 190 lbs and about 10%. Not sure how long it will take me to get there, but I am not quittin...=)

----------


## Trying-Hard

I am about 90% sure that I am going to stop cycling at 12 weeks now. Looking to dose HCG like the following:

Week 11: 250IU x3 (M/W/F)
Week 12: Same as above (last test cyp injection on 10/24)

Week 13: 500IU x3 (M/W/F)
Week 14: Start PCT w/ SERMS on 11/7 (No HCG injections this week)

I will keep on taking an AI up until the day of PCT, then drop it.

PCT
Clomid: 100/50/50/50
Nolva: 40/40/20/20
Creatine 5g ed

If anyone sees anything wrong with this or recommends a better alternative, please let me know. Thanks.

----------


## ANIMAL

You can really see it in your back! Good job dude! Legs look good too! That's great that you met your goal. Don't be a stranger once you're completely finished around here.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> You can really see it in your back! Good job dude! Legs look good too! That's great that you met your goal. Don't be a stranger once you're completely finished around here.


Thanks a lot, bro. I will most certainly be sticking around..=)

----------


## Swifto

> I am about 90% sure that I am going to stop cycling at 12 weeks now. Looking to dose HCG like the following:
> 
> Week 11: 250IU x3 (M/W/F)
> Week 12: Same as above (last test cyp injection on 10/24)
> 
> Week 13: 500IU x3 (M/W/F)
> Week 14: Start PCT w/ SERMS on 11/7 (No HCG injections this week)
> 
> I will keep on taking an AI up until the day of PCT, then drop it.
> ...


HCG twice per week, not 3x.

PCT is 5-6 weeks, not 4.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> HCG twice per week, not 3x.
> 
> PCT is 5-6 weeks, not 4.


Thanks Swifto!

----------


## Trying-Hard

Here is my final schedule regarding HCG /AI...

----------


## Swifto

Arimidex EOD.

Aromasin ED or 2x day.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> Arimidex EOD.
> 
> Aromasin ED or 2x day.


Correct. That is the plan. If everything else looks good via the xcell document, then cool. If not, please let me know.

Thanks so much for all of your help, Swifto. You have been very helpful despite the fact that I bombarded your PM box...;-)

----------


## Trying-Hard

Man, good workout tonight. Did chest/tris and for chest I was FINALLY able to do more than 6 reps of 275 lbs. on flat bench. I have been trying to go over the 6 rep mark for 6 weeks now and today was the day. I did it 8x and stopped there although I am positive I could have done 9 and *may* have been able to do 10. Then got pumped and got the courage to throw on 315 and I was able to do it 3x clean, and with the 4th rep I needed a touch to get it up.

I am very happy with today's results. Now the bad news....

Checked BP and it was 140/80. Relaxed, waited 5 mins and tried it again. 130/87. This is just another sign that I need to get off and give my body a rest. Now I will say with certainty that my cycle will come to a halt at the 12 week mark.

This week and next week is all that is left.....=)

----------


## ANIMAL

So you upped your HCG to to 500iu and 1000iu instead of what you wrote out 250iu and 500iu? Were you currently taking 250iu throughout the cycle?

----------


## Trying-Hard

> So you upped your HCG to to 500iu and 1000iu instead of what you wrote out 250iu and 500iu? Were you currently taking 250iu throughout the cycle?


Yes, I was taking 250 throughout entire cycle and it was just recently (today actually, as you can see from the XCELL doc) that I decided to up the dose. The reason why I did that is because I am just now starting to get testicular atrophy. So I proposed to up my dose and the vets (swifto, etc.) agreed.

Swifto also said to double the dose the last 4 HCG shots which is why you see the 1000IUs there.

----------


## Buster Brown

Hey bro I haven't checked out your log in a bit but want to say you have made some great gains.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> Hey bro I haven't checked out your log in a bit but want to say you have made some great gains.


Thanks Buster, appreciate it!

----------


## Brohim

nice work. Please keep us updated on blood work and through PCT. BTW good job on blasting HCG at the end. Your testicles are #1 factor on recovering and HCG is the med you need to get them going to full speed quickly.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> nice work. Please keep us updated on blood work and through PCT. BTW good job on blasting HCG at the end. Your testicles are #1 factor on recovering and HCG is the med you need to get them going to full speed quickly.


Thanks, Brohim. I agree with you regarding HCG .

I will be updating this thread all the way through PCT with morning weight / strength in gym / BW / etc.

----------


## Trying-Hard

Starting morning weight: 180.0
End of week 1: 180.6
End of week 2: 184.0
End of week 3: 187.2
End of week 4: 186.4
End of week 5: 187.4
End of week 6: 187.2
End of week 7: 189.4
End of week 8: 191.8
End of week 9: 192.4
End of week 10: 194.6
End of week 11: 196.0

Measured BP and got it down to 126/84. 

Only one week left. Brings a tear to my eye...lol

----------


## austinite

> Starting morning weight: 180.0
> End of week 1: 180.6
> End of week 2: 184.0
> End of week 3: 187.2
> End of week 4: 186.4
> End of week 5: 187.4
> End of week 6: 187.2
> End of week 7: 189.4
> End of week 8: 191.8
> ...


haha. It's all good brother. This has been quite a journey for you and you've done very well. The information and experience you've gathered from this cycle will only benefit you in the future. Well done, TH!

----------


## Trying-Hard

> haha. It's all good brother. This has been quite a journey for you and you've done very well. The information and experience you've gathered from this cycle will only benefit you in the future. Well done, TH!


Thanks a lot, bro! You have been such a great help to me along the way. I will save my shout outs until the end of my cycle next week..=)

I am getting BW done on 10/29, I will most certainly keep you and everyone else posted.

----------


## BobTheBodyBuilder

Amazing results thus far. If I'm not mistaken, test will stay in your body for week 12-14 so you should be able to make some decent gains in there as well. goodluck.

----------


## SBEONE

Really Nice man, very well proportioned upper body and legs are looking beastly!

----------


## Trying-Hard

> Amazing results thus far. If I'm not mistaken, test will stay in your body for week 12-14 so you should be able to make some decent gains in there as well. goodluck.


Thanks you, Bob. Appreciate the kind words.




> Really Nice man, very well proportioned upper body and legs are looking beastly!


Thanks a lot, SBEONE. I have a very hard time training legs due to my chronic pains, but I do the best that I can.

----------


## Trying-Hard

So I diid chest last night and I seriously want to sit in a corner and cry to the fact that this is my last week on (not really, but you get the idea). All my gains started coming week 8 and they are really starting to shine now. I should just stay on for the 14 weeks but I already started my high dose of HCG getting ready to get off, been mentally prepared to get off at week 12 for the past week or so, etc. *What to do?!?!? I am confused and feel a little hypocriticial for already stating I will be getting off at week 12.*

Some chest highlights from last night....

First exercise was incline DBs. On my 5th set I was able to get 125 lbs dumbells for 6 clean reps. Then moved on to flat bench press and on my 3rd set was able to get 285 for 6 clean reps. I remember 3 weeks ago I couldn't even do 275 on flat bench for more than 6 reps even when it was my first exercise.

Finished off with some seated chest presses and then did a couple of set of tris and called it a day. Walked out of the gym thinking....I love test almost as much as my wife!

----------


## ANIMAL

I know exactly how you feel. I've been going back and forth to extending my cycle to 16 weeks to get a full 8 weeks "on" since test kicked in. I'm really making some awesome gains right now and I feel if I get off on week 12 or 14 that I'm cutting my gains short when I've peaked. 

I think it's all a feel on your body and if you have no side effects and everything is good then you should be good to go.

But think of it like this, it's 2 weeks less that you have to wait until you can start up the next cycle. There's always next year.

You had some awesome gains and you should be proud of your results.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> I know exactly how you feel. I've been going back and forth to extending my cycle to 16 weeks to get a full 8 weeks "on" since test kicked in. I'm really making some awesome gains right now and I feel if I get off on week 12 or 14 that I'm cutting my gains short when I've peaked. 
> 
> I think it's all a feel on your body and if you have no side effects and everything is good then you should be good to go.
> 
> But think of it like this, it's 2 weeks less that you have to wait until you can start up the next cycle. There's always next year.
> 
> You had some awesome gains and you should be proud of your results.


Thanks bro! But your last 3 sentences didn't help me..LOL

----------


## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

End ur cycle
Make sure u have no problems getting ur t back to acceptable levels 
Learn how to keep gains and before u know it it's time for ur next one  :Wink: 
Next one u can do test prop it kicks in full force at week 1 and week 3 to 8 will be insane vs kicking in week 8 
For me test e never really kicked in my second cycle like prop did for my first 
But because of that I got zero sides with test e vs tons of sides with test p!!!

----------


## Brohim

End it now you need to start recovery especially since you got atrophy at week 10. You will bounce back faster. Blast the HCG get those nuts working and start your SERMS. You will still have strength while the test is clearing! Good luck!

----------


## MickeyKnox

> Thanks a lot, bro! You have been such a great help to me along the way. I will save my shout outs until the end of my cycle next week..=)
> 
> I am getting BW done on 10/29, I will most certainly keep you and everyone else posted.


Looking forward to your blood work.

This has been an interesting journey for you. And your results are a testament to your hard work, discipline, and research. You look great bro, good job! If you do a cutting cycle, im in!

----------


## Trying-Hard

> End ur cycle
> Make sure u have no problems getting ur t back to acceptable levels 
> Learn how to keep gains and before u know it it's time for ur next one 
> Next one u can do test prop it kicks in full force at week 1 and week 3 to 8 will be insane vs kicking in week 8 
> For me test e never really kicked in my second cycle like prop did for my first 
> But because of that I got zero sides with test e vs tons of sides with test p!!!





> End it now you need to start recovery especially since you got atrophy at week 10. You will bounce back faster. Blast the HCG get those nuts working and start your SERMS. You will still have strength while the test is clearing! Good luck!


Thanks guys! Your recommendations were the last straw. Done at 12.




> Looking forward to your blood work.
> 
> This has been an interesting journey for you. And your results are a testament to your hard work, discipline, and research. You look great bro, good job! If you do a cutting cycle, im in!


Thanks Mickey, much appreciated. I am still debating my next cycle in 16 weeks if I want to bulk again with Cyp / deca or lean down with Prop / Var (Yes I know, leaning down is diet dependent..=)

----------


## Trying-Hard

Last shot in 12 hrs...



I would like to give a *HUGE* thank you to Swifto, austinite, Jimmyinkedup, ANIMAL, and Capebuffalo for being patient with me via PMs and helping me out. I couldn't have done it without your help, fellas. Thank you! 

I would also like to thank *all the members* that contributed to this thread and helped me with various questions and issued their wisdom. Thank you!

Saying that I have learned a lot about AAS and about myself and the way my body responds to it is an understatement. It was a bumpy ride, and one I would do over and over again if given the choice. My goal was to reach 195.0 morning weight while maintaining BF, and I think I have achieved that goal, or came very close to it. Today's morning weight was was 196.4 lbs.

I will most certainly keep this thread alive and updated, with the first update to come after I get my BW results to see where my E2 levels are after being on the Adex protocol. I will also keep on updating my weight and strength throughout PCT. 

If I can be at 190 lbs. morning weight the day before my next cycle, I'll be a happy juicer..=)

THANK YOU!

----------


## ANIMAL

Awesome stuff man!! Happy to take the journey with ya! Look forward to what the future holds.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> Awesome stuff man!! Happy to take the journey with ya! Look forward to what the future holds.


Thanks brother! Best of luck with your cycle. Who knows, maybe the next ones we do can start at a similar time frame once again..=)

----------


## Buster Brown

Good for you bro, nice job. The next one will be here before you know it!

----------


## austinite

Great job TH. We're all proud of you!

----------


## Trying-Hard

> Good for you bro, nice job. The next one will be here before you know it!


Thanks man. I can't wait. I think I am a 'juice head' now..lol




> Great job TH. We're all proud of you!


You da man, austinite. Thanks for everything and thank for the kind words!

----------


## Trying-Hard

Decided to to chest and shoulders today and not just shoulders. I feel my chest is a little weak aesthetically and I am thinking about hitting it 2x/wk, along with legs.

Anyway, new best today. 315 on flat bench for 4 clean reps, a little help on the 5th rep. Pretty stoked about that.

will report weight tomorrow morning, end of week 12.

----------


## Trying-Hard

Well, I didn't weigh myself this morning but I did weigh myself just a few seconds ago and I weighed in at 200.6 lbs with no cloths on. This is the most I have weighed at night. Pretty exciting. 

EDIT: I have decided to take my pics down. I am just not fond of having pics of me on the net but I did it initially to share the progress with you guys. =)

----------


## Buster Brown

I only noticed an initial 2 lb. drop during the first week of Pct (I actually had a hard time on-cycle trying to make those 2 lbs. stick). After that I maintained my weight and began to try and drop some of the bad weight six weeks after Pct. I'm sure you will be able to get to your target weight.

----------


## Trying-Hard

Thanks buster. I am working on upping my cals now to nourish the newly added body weight. Looks like now my maintenance calorie intake is 3,000, and right now I am eating 3,800-4,000 calories per day. Hopefully an 800+ calorie surplus along with 10g of creatine/day will help me keep as much of the new gains as possible.

----------


## Trying-Hard

So yesterday I took another HCG shot and found something interesting...

As some of you may know, I have been complaining about HCG burning when injected. Every single injection, reagrdless of SQ pinning spot, stings for about 7-8 secs after injecting. Yesterday I tried a different brand of HCG and it did not burn even the slightest bit! 

Soooo...I won't be going back to the original HCG I was using anytime soon. If anyone is interested, I'll take pics of both HCG bottles (original one and new one I pinned yesterday) to show you.

----------


## Trying-Hard

Starting morning weight: 180.0
End of week 1: 180.6
End of week 2: 184.0
End of week 3: 187.2
End of week 4: 186.4
End of week 5: 187.4
End of week 6: 187.2
End of week 7: 189.4
End of week 8: 191.8
End of week 9: 192.4
End of week 10: 194.6
End of week 11: 196.0
End of week 12: 196.6 *End of cycle*
End of week 13: 198.0

So far, so good. I am eating a lot...about 800 calories surplus and trying to keep it up until next cycle.

----------


## austinite

You gained at a slower rate than the typical user, this translates to much more quality gains; you should be able to retain most of that if not all. Fast gainers would have probably gained at or higher than 20 and ended up with 8 lbs if they're lucky. 

Once again, good work.

----------


## MickeyKnox

Congratulations TH! You did an amazing job! 

And i agree with Aust, your new muscle is likely denser and better quality than most new users could achieve. You'll likely hang on to all of it post cycle if you re-adjust your TDEE for you're new muscle. 

Once again, bravo!

----------


## Trying-Hard

> You gained at a slower rate than the typical user, this translates to much more quality gains; you should be able to retain most of that if not all. Fast gainers would have probably gained at or higher than 20 and ended up with 8 lbs if they're lucky. 
> 
> Once again, good work.





> Congratulations TH! You did an amazing job! 
> 
> And i agree with Aust, your new muscle is likely denser and better quality than most new users could achieve. You'll likely hang on to all of it post cycle if you re-adjust your TDEE for you're new muscle. 
> 
> Once again, bravo!


Thanks a lot, fellas. Really appreciate the words of encouragement.

----------


## Trying-Hard

Started PCT today. It will look like this (if I have enough pills for 6 weeks. If not, I'll do 5 weeks)

Clomd: 100/50/50/50/50/50
Nolva: 40/20/20/20/20/20

Also, I am starting to gain a lot of unwanted body fat. I weighed in at 199.0 this morning and it is all in my gut, lol. So I cut my calories down to 3500 (from 3900). At 3500 I am still 500 calories surplus. I will monitor my weight from here and see how it goes.

----------


## Trying-Hard

Trianed chest last night and was able to get 315 on bench for 5 clean reps, needed help on the 6th one. By far the strongest I have been, but hell my little wrists and shoulder joints are hurting me this morning. I may back off the 315 and stick with repping 275 next time.

*Day 2 PCT*
Weighed in this morning at 200.0 lbs!! Not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing.

----------


## Trying-Hard

Official weigh in...

Starting morning weight: 180.0
End of week 1: 180.6
End of week 2: 184.0
End of week 3: 187.2
End of week 4: 186.4
End of week 5: 187.4
End of week 6: 187.2
End of week 7: 189.4
End of week 8: 191.8
End of week 9: 192.4
End of week 10: 194.6
End of week 11: 196.0
End of week 12: 196.6 *End of cycle*
End of week 13: 198.0
End of week 14: 198.4

Today is day 4 of PCT and so far, so good.

----------


## lovex

Great Job...Well done

----------


## Trying-Hard

> Great Job...Well done


Thanks man.

Just got back from doing a chest/tris workout. Strength is still up and going strong. Got 250 on incline bench for 10 and then 275 on flat for 7 after being dead tired.

When does someone typically lose some of their gains? During PCT? After PCT? If after PCT, how long after?

----------


## Trying-Hard

Starting morning weight: 180.0
End of week 1: 180.6
End of week 2: 184.0
End of week 3: 187.2
End of week 4: 186.4
End of week 5: 187.4
End of week 6: 187.2
End of week 7: 189.4
End of week 8: 191.8
End of week 9: 192.4
End of week 10: 194.6
End of week 11: 196.0
End of week 12: 196.6 *End of cycle*
End of week 13: 198.0
End of week 14: 198.4
End of week 15: 197.8

Today is day 11 of PCT and I am just tired!! I am still eating just as much as I was when I was on cycle, but my workouts are suffering a little because I feel so lethargic. Just got to tough through it....

----------


## Trying-Hard

JUst got back from a chest workout and even though I said I was going to stick with 275, my ego got the best of me and I did 315 again. 5 clean reps again but this time I didn't try for 6 as there was some miscommunication with my spotter. Anyway, it's good to see the strength is still up. 

Libido is way down and has been for the past week or so. I am ok with that as long as I don't lose a lot of weight / strength.

----------


## Trying-Hard

*Day 14 PCT:*

Lethargy is still kicking in strong and my body weight is shedding off faster now than ever..=(

I will report my weight on Saturday morning. I hope the weight loss stops sooner than later. I can only eat so much...

----------


## Trying-Hard

*Day 17 PCT:*

Had sex with the wife this afternoon and all is well. Shot a monster load and felt good, lol.

Strength is still up, and I will report official weight tomorrow morning.

So far, the experience has been right on expectations. Still very much looking forward to cycle #2 in 3-4 mths. =)

----------


## Trying-Hard

Starting morning weight: 180.0
End of week 1: 180.6
End of week 2: 184.0
End of week 3: 187.2
End of week 4: 186.4
End of week 5: 187.4
End of week 6: 187.2
End of week 7: 189.4
End of week 8: 191.8
End of week 9: 192.4
End of week 10: 194.6
End of week 11: 196.0
End of week 12: 196.6 *End of cycle*
End of week 13: 198.0
End of week 14: 198.4
End of week 15: 197.8
End of week 16: 196.0...yikes!

I am not sure when the weight loss is going to stop, but I sure hope it is sooner than later. I know I am making a bigger deal about it than needs to be, but damn it I want it all..haha.

We shall see what happens next week. =)

----------


## Trying-Hard

*Day 20 PCT:*

Dropping weight like a fly...UGH! 194.2 morning weight.

I am still eating like I should, so not sure if it is my PCT that is lacking or what? I am following Austin's protocol of 100/50/50/50 and 40/20/20/20. I am actually going to extend it to 5 weeks instead of 4.

----------


## zeeibi

following this, similar to my cycle

----------


## MickeyKnox

Reduce the volume in the gym but keep up the intensity. In and out in under 40 mins! Remember to eat for you new muscle! Eat more!

----------


## Trying-Hard

> Reduce the volume in the gym but keep up the intensity. In and out in under 40 mins! Remember to eat for you new muscle! Eat more!


Yup, will do that from now on. Getting in and out in 40 mins will be tough, but with less sets/reps I should be able to do it. Thanks!

----------


## Trying-Hard

Freaking nausea man....UGH! 

PCT really sucks!!

----------


## mbreti

Great log man, just read it all, some great info on here! 

Hope you manage to keep your gains! Good luck.

----------


## ANIMAL

I'm trying to stay out of your thread because I'm starting PCT today and I don't want to go into it thinking anything but positive thoughts lol. But just wanted to say keep pushing and eating. Try not to think so much about the weight on the scale. Watching Kai Greene's videos (such as overkill) on youtube puts me in a different mental state and I prepare myself for every lift now going into PCT. It's all in your mind, don't let it get the best of you.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> I'm trying to stay out of your thread because I'm starting PCT today and I don't want to go into it thinking anything but positive thoughts lol. But just wanted to say keep pushing and eating. Try not to think so much about the weight on the scale. Watching Kai Greene's videos (such as overkill) on youtube puts me in a different mental state and I prepare myself for every lift now going into PCT. It's all in your mind, don't let it get the best of you.


Thanks bro, appreciate it. 

What sucks though is that reality is reality, and reality is i am losing weight everyday..=( 

193.8 lbs this morning, and I ate 3800 calories yesterday. Fuuuuuck. But, I am not gonna give up. I hope the weight loss can stop at 190 morning weight that way I at least gained 10 lbs total on cycle.

I will be sure to keep this thread updated, and good luck with your PCT. Keep us posted.

----------


## ANIMAL

How's your sex drive?

----------


## MickeyKnox

> Freaking nausea man....UGH! 
> 
> PCT really sucks!!


Take your PCT at night before bed bro. You wont feel as nauseous.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> How's your sex drive?


Sex drive isnt't all that bad, actually. I am still in the mood here and there. I mean it's not anywhere NEAR as high as it was when I was on, but surprisingly it is not all that bad. It is just the weight loss that has really boggled my mind. I am gonna wait until the end of PCT and a month or two after to decide if it is worth it to ever go on again. If I lose most of it or even close to most of it, then the answer will be no. I will be sure to keep this thread updated.




> Take your PCT at night before bed bro. You wont feel as nauseous.


Exactly what I did starting tonight. =)

----------


## lovex

> Sex drive isnt't all that bad, actually. I am still in the mood here and there. I mean it's not anywhere NEAR as high as it was when I was on, but surprisingly it is not all that bad. It is just the weight loss that has really boggled my mind. I am gonna wait until the end of PCT and a month or two after to decide if it is worth it to ever go on again. If I lose most of it or even close to most of it, then the answer will be no. I will be sure to keep this thread updated.


Since your Sex drive is not bad...so don't worry
Be positive ...think positive...
Good luck

----------


## canadianbrah

Good read and very informative. Good luck with keeping the weight on!

----------


## Trying-Hard

Took the Clomid/Nolva before bed last night and NO nausea today.

I highly recommend taking PCT at night. Nausea SUCKS! Thanks for the tip, Mickey.

Oh, and I haven't stepped on the scale, I am too scared, lol. I will Saturday and report.

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## Trying-Hard

Starting morning weight: 180.0
End of week 1: 180.6
End of week 2: 184.0
End of week 3: 187.2
End of week 4: 186.4
End of week 5: 187.4
End of week 6: 187.2
End of week 7: 189.4
End of week 8: 191.8
End of week 9: 192.4
End of week 10: 194.6
End of week 11: 196.0
End of week 12: 196.6 *End of cycle*
End of week 13: 198.0
End of week 14: 198.4
End of week 15: 197.8
End of week 16: 196.0
End of week 17: 194.6

*Today is day 25 of pct* - AND THERE IS GOOD NEWS.

The good news is that this is roughly the same weight I was on day 20 of PCT, and I did not lose any more weight. My sex drive has also came on strong the last few days and I noticed my fellas are a lot more full. I am not sure if this is psychological or not. 

So, does this mean that this is my final weight? I sure hope so. That would mean I kept 14 out of 20 lbs. I'd be happy with that. Looking forward to seeing how the PCT unfolds as it comes near completion.

I also noticed that I only have Clomid treatment for 4 weeks. *Can I run 100/50/50/50 and 40/20/20/20/20? Basically just an extra week of Nolva alone.*

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## Trying-Hard

*Day 28 PCT:*

Weight is holding steady at 194 in the morning. 

I have also consolidated my muscle group workouts and instead of doing 5 days/wk, I am going to do 4 days/wk. I am finding out that my body likes more rest during PCT, hence the change.

I am certainly not as strong, but stronger than before I started, but not by much - unfortunately.

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## Trying-Hard

*Day 30 PCT:*

Had a back and bi workout last night and it went well. Strength is not up ike it used to be but certianly stronger than when I started. 

Weight is still a steady 194. (was 194.6 this morning)

Only sides I am experiencing now is extreme fatigue. I've also injured my shoulder and trying to deal with that. Makes it difficult to train chest or shoulders..=(

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## Trying-Hard

*LAST UPDATE*

Starting morning weight: 180.0
End of week 1: 180.6
End of week 2: 184.0
End of week 3: 187.2
End of week 4: 186.4
End of week 5: 187.4
End of week 6: 187.2
End of week 7: 189.4
End of week 8: 191.8
End of week 9: 192.4
End of week 10: 194.6
End of week 11: 196.0
End of week 12: 196.6 *End of cycle*
End of week 13: 198.0
End of week 14: 198.4
End of week 15: 197.8
End of week 16: 196.0
End of week 17: 194.6
End of week 18: 194.6 

Today marks Day 32 of PCT and I am virtually done with PCT. I may continue with the Nolva for an extra week since I have some left over.

My feelings about cycling are mixed. 

*The pros:
*The strength gains and motivation throughout cycle were sublime. The noticeable size increase from week to week were eye opening. The appetite was always through the roof. The end result of putting on 15 pounds of muscle is exponentially satisfying!!

*The cons:*
PCT sucks ass, period! From the fatigue, to the mental downward spiral of losing weight from day to day, to the strength loss, to the loss of relative libido from when I was on....it all made me feel like complete utter crap! Although, I must say that not the entire PCT was like that, just about 7 days of it.

Will I cycle again? Most likely, yes! Because at the end of the day, to me, the pros outweigh the cons.

Thank you everyone that helped and participated in my thread. Your support and knowledge was greatly appreciated. Till next time..... :Welcome:

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## MickeyKnox

Sounds like a success to me! 

15lbs of mucsle is nothing to snub your nose at. It would take the average guy 1 year to put that on. Im glad your experience was mostly positive.  :Smilie: 

Next cycle will be even better!

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## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

> Sounds like a success to me!
> 
> 15lbs of mucsle is nothing to snub your nose at. It would take the average guy 1 year to put that on. Im glad your experience was mostly positive. 
> 
> Next cycle will be even better!


There is no way a natty who's Intermidiate or advanced can gain that amount of muscle even in a year!!! Except for newbs...

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