# STEROIDS FORUM > HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY- Low T, Anti-Aging >  TRT and building muscle?

## Fireguy40

Hey fellas,
I have now been on TRT for about 6 months. 100 Mgs once a week injection. My last blood work showed that my Test levels were around the 900 range.I feel great almost like I am 21 again! My question to you guys is ....I want to build some serious muscle now, and is a test level in the 900's something that would make this possible along with hard work in the gym? I know that sounds like a stupid question, but what I mean is, is a level like this considered like being " On the juice" so to say? If I wanted to do a blast like I read about on here , would my test levels go much higher than that? Please excuse my ignorance on the subject. For instance, if my levels were at 1500 would that be any benefit for building muscle? Is more better when it comes to test and building muscle?thanks in advance!

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## MuscleInk

There's a bit more to it than that. Higher levels of testosterone may be beneficial if:

1. You eat right. Nothing happens without the right nutrition plan. 80% of gains are influenced by what and how much you eat
2. Your training routine. How often and how you train effect your outcome.
3. You Sleep. You grow when you sleep. Higher test levels can impair sleep.
4. Managing sides. Increasing your testosterone increases risks of side effects including: elevated estrogen (which can increase fat, decrease muscle mass/tone, affect libido, cause ED), elevated BP, hypercholesterolemia, and more.

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## Times Roman

> Hey fellas,
> I have now been on TRT for about 6 months. 100 Mgs once a week injection. My last blood work showed that my Test levels were around the 900 range.I feel great almost like I am 21 again! My question to you guys is ....I want to build some serious muscle now, and is a test level in the 900's something that would make this possible along with hard work in the gym? I know that sounds like a stupid question, but what I mean is, is a level like this considered like being " On the juice" so to say? If I wanted to do a blast like I read about on here , would my test levels go much higher than that? Please excuse my ignorance on the subject. For instance, if my levels were at 1500 would that be any benefit for building muscle? Is more better when it comes to test and building muscle?thanks in advance!


the good news is that it can take up to a full two years of being on trt to realize the full benefits of the program. 

body resculpting
improvement in bone density
etc.....

here's the thing. even when you were 21, you may not have had levels that reached 900. so this means you will be able to (in many ways) build muscle almost as easily as when you were a kid. that's the good news.

the bad news is that you really need to be careful with trt, as this is a protocol you will observe the rest of your life. and this means you want to keep the side effects of taking testosterone as low as possible. Side effects include increased lipid profile/cholesterol, increased RBC/hematacrit levels, increased blood pressure/resting heart rate. These type things. So the higher your TRT dose, the more likely it is you will experience some or all of these sides. So when it comes to TRT, and with the dose, I adhere to the principle that "less is more". There is a statistical correlation between Blood pressure/cholestoral/RBC and longevity. TRT is an art, and a balancing act. On the one end of the spectrum are low benefits and low sides, and on the other end of the spectrum are higher benefits and higher sides. You need to balance the desire for virility with long term safety. I've been on trt for three years, and am currently at 70mg/week of test c, and my test levels are over 700. and yes, i feel good!

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## MD2B

Awesome post Times Roman, I needed to hear that myself.

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## Times Roman

> Awesome post Times Roman, I needed to hear that myself.


wait til the gurus jump in like Gdivine and the rest. I give more or less summary advice, they drill down right into the gnats ass and can tell you if the gnats prostate is 5% too big and what to do about it. =)

and if you couldnt' tell, that's supposed to be some kind of compliment, though on reread, it may not have come off that way. oh well, guess i'll get another glass of wine!

Cheers!

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## HRTstudent

> Hey fellas,
> I have now been on TRT for about 6 months. 100 Mgs once a week injection. My last blood work showed that my Test levels were around the 900 range.I feel great almost like I am 21 again! My question to you guys is ....I want to build some serious muscle now, and is a test level in the 900's something that would make this possible along with hard work in the gym? I know that sounds like a stupid question, but what I mean is, is a level like this considered like being " On the juice" so to say? If I wanted to do a blast like I read about on here , would my test levels go much higher than that? Please excuse my ignorance on the subject. For instance, if my levels were at 1500 would that be any benefit for building muscle? Is more better when it comes to test and building muscle?thanks in advance!


Well, two things. First of all, it's great that you feel good with where you are at. I would caution you, however, not to push it. More is not always better with testosterone . I imagine you started TRT for the subjective improvements in well being. It sounds like you are definitely there.

Next, the muscle gaining benefits of 1500 vs 900 are probably slim. It would be a definite advantage if you improved your nutrition and training though. All these fitness models and professional bodybuilders are on such high doses and on more anabolic drugs that something like a 1500 testosterone level is really just a drop in the bucket. Hell, they probably take our weekly dose every day... 

So, don't get caught up in trying to be a pro bodybuilder, but do understand you're in a great position to really improve your muscle and overall physique. 

Personally, for me I have seen some decent muscle improvements and my fitness training in general has been slacking a lot.

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## MyteeJ

> Hey fellas,
> I have now been on TRT for about 6 months. 100 Mgs once a week injection. My last blood work showed that my Test levels were around the 900 range.I feel great almost like I am 21 again! My question to you guys is ....I want to build some serious muscle now, and is a test level in the 900's something that would make this possible along with hard work in the gym? I know that sounds like a stupid question, but what I mean is, is a level like this considered like being " On the juice" so to say? If I wanted to do a blast like I read about on here , would my test levels go much higher than that? Please excuse my ignorance on the subject. For instance, if my levels were at 1500 would that be any benefit for building muscle? Is more better when it comes to test and building muscle?thanks in advance!


Great posts from the pros as usual about this.

FYI - When I got tested at the 5 week mark on my protocol I was at 1800 (test) and I really would not have known aside from the BW and overall benefits of energy etc.

I couldn't agree more with the nutrition aspect of what the group says. The TRT helps of course but clean diet and proper protein intake are key for me. I was ok in the past with post workout protein drinks but I am now regimented about them for recovery.

A word of caution also, I read on another post to be careful about pushing the weights. You may have new found "strength" but be careful of joints, tendons, and old injuries as you are building the new muscle.

The guys in the know talk about the marathon and "it's not a sprint" which is so true. I am still carefully pushing the limits of higher weights with work outs to build new muscle/add strength and the results are awesome. It's so tempting to "blast" or up T doses but we all no there are no short cuts in this game.

Hope you continue to see good results Fireguy.

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## Fireguy40

Fellas.....Thanks to all of you who have responded. This is exactly what I needed to hear. I am off to the other forums on this website to learn a little more about great nutrition. I eat pretty clean, but of course there is always room for improvement. Thanks again guys , this post has been extremely helpful to me. Hope it keeps going.

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## kelkel

Fireguy when was your BW pulled relative to your injection? I'm curious at what point you were at the 900 level. On point advice from all the guys above. 6 months is not a long time to get your protocol dialed in. Speaking of which, can you post up exactly what your full protocol is? HCG and an AI involved? Do you have current BW you can post up? We may be able to make some recommendations that will help there as well. Simple additions can make a big difference.

Anyway, like the guys said, if you want to start putting on muscle it is all about proper nutrition / food intake. You can have a 4000 T level and if you're not eating enough you won't make gains. TR said it right, you may never have had such a level even when you were younger! 

Post up and welcome Fireguy!

kel

Gnats ass TR?

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## TMan96

*Great Thread!*
I had started one a similar one a month or so ago as I am also trying to figure out the best way for me to gain some sizable muscle on HRT. I am still trying to find what works for me. 

I know this is not my thread, but it is the same topic. Was wondering if anyone that has been successful on gaining some muscle could add what their diet looks like or any other supplements/protocols they use. I am 45 years old 5’7 166 lbs about 12%bf. I had posted over on the nutrition forum but really didn’t have any luck with responses. If you don’t want to post to this thread please PM me.

Appreciate ANY input.
Thanks!

Good Luck FireGuy

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## Lifted1

if you want to get bigger you must eat. calories in vs calories out is what its about. you can do it the "clean" way or you can just do it...either way you must eat, a lot, often. i try to kill 4000 cals a day and i barely put on weight. everyones different so just keep track of your calorie intake and adjust according to morning weight after 3 days or so. gL

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## kelkel

Most people _think_ they eat enough but they really don't. It's harder to do than you might think when your concerned with it being good nutrition as well.

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## Fireguy40

my TRT is just that. 100mgs once a week, that I self inject usually through the quad with a 21 gauge pin 1-1/2 long. This is only after my doc started me on monthly injections of 200 mgs that sent me on an emotional roller coaster. I tried to get on HCG but my doc insisted that I don't need it. ( even though I now know better, thanks to you guys). I do not run an AI even though my last blood work showed my estrogen at a 190 level ( again my doc showed me his computer screen that assured me that anything under 200 for males is OK.) Others on here say that its still too high, but I have no sides that I can tell. Wake up with wood every morning! my blood work was drawn on Wednesday morning after injecting on Sunday morning. I will post more after work..

thanks fellas

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## Lifted1

> Most people _think_ they eat enough but they really don't. It's harder to do than you might think when your concerned with it being good nutrition as well.


+1. it sounds easier than it really is, especially when your in the 3500~4500 calorie range lol. kel i updated my program thread with stats if you get a moment. thx

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## Fireguy40

Kelkel,
 I have had a very rough start to my try protocal. my doc started me on once a month injections, then a few months later, when my levels dropped from low 200's down into the high 100's. Finally I got him to agree with the weekly injections. When he saw my level was at 900 after such a short period of time on trt, he now wants me to drop down a little on the injections ( again he said to go to 100 mgs every 2 weeks! I told him I would be more comfortable dropping my weekly injections down to maybe 70-80 mgs a week. He was fine with that. He would not budge on AI and said that I don't need them. I certainly feel differently and have not given up yet! lol. This is my general practice doctor, who I see for everything. I had slight ache in my testicles for a little bit ( I took this as atrophy) but my wife tells me they are the same size. HCG is certainly something that I am interested in but like I said before, he won't budge....yet. Thanks fellas.

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## kelkel

Most have had that rough start you speak of and go through several docs until we find the right one. It's time you find a new one as this guys a retard. Offense intended.

First, you pulled blood pretty much right when the T was peaking in your system. Which is fine if you have an astute doc but you don't. He doesn't seem to understand half lives as well as the metabolization of T. Nor much else for that matter. Your E2 test could not have been a sensitive assay which is what you need (male specific.) Read this on estrogen:

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/...ng-Male_01.htm

as well as...

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2010/...ing-Men_01.htm

Too many people seem to judge estrogen levels by gyno or nipple tenderness only. More damaging aspects are internal and not self-evident. Hopefully, you don't need an AI but you do need a sensitive assay and a protocol to include HCG which can be written by a doc. Many HCG package inserts now state for the treatment of Hypogonadic Hypogonadism, mine does! Pull one up on line, print it out and take it to him. Build your case. Also read GD's sticky on HCG. Very well written piece! You need it to mimic LH function and keep your testicals somewhat functioning which includes other subjective benefits as well.

kel

edit to say: 21ga 1/2" pin. Stop the madness! Maybe load with the 21 ga but get yourself some 25ga 1" pins for injection please. No need to harpoon yourself with those things. That's a lot of tissue damage over time.

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## TennTarheel

Great articles. For guys whose docs don't believe in keeping Estrogen in check, reading these may help sway them a bit.

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## MyteeJ

Totally agree with Kel's recc to get a new doc. 

There are so many competent docs out there so do yourself a favor and get working with one ASAP.

I have HCG and AI's in my original protocol and couldn't be more pleased with overall results.

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## Brohim

Just because you have high test levels now doesn't mean you will automatically build muscle. You see those skinny 17 yo kids at the gym? They are there 5 times a week but real skinny and trying to lift weight that is too heavy for them? It takes time to build muscle and the most important thing is nutrition! 

TRT will help you keep your gains (muscle) but you have to work your butt off to get the muscle. This means solid nutrition and training program. As Kel suggested, in order to build muscle you have to eat alot! Chicken, brown rice, etc. And it takes time to build muscle. If you stick to lifting 5 day's a week and eating copious amounts of food you will eventually acheive your goals. Give yourself a year or two at the minimum with no long breaks from working out.

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## fit2bOld

Building muscle comes down to nutrition and exercise as well as consistancy.

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## TMan96

> Building muscle comes down to nutrition and exercise as well as consistancy.


I understand the importance of nutrition and training and think I am doing things fairly correctly. Could someone that has seen really good results post their nutrition and training protocol or maybe a link to a thread in one of the other forums that has worked? As reference I am 5’7 165lbs and about 12ish % bf. 
Thanks.

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## kelkel

TMan visit the Nutrition forum and read some of the stickies there as well as some of the threads. You'll see a lot of what your looking for. Should be a bulking thread there as well.

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## MyteeJ

TMan - 

You could also keep a diary of your diet and post what's "typical" for you in terms of daily intake. That may make it easier for the group to give you advice on where to add. IMO protein intake is an area where a lot of people are lacking. Once you track current intake you may be surprised as to how low you actually are.

I realize there is a forum for this but you might as well ask questions where you are getting the best feedback.

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## Brazensol

If you were an easy gainer at 21 then normalizing your t levels should allow you to continue making gains. Like all the guys above said, diet is the biggest part of the puzzle for gaining lean mass.

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