# STEROIDS FORUM > IGF-1 LR3, HGH, and INSULIN QUESTIONS >  2007-08 HGH Cycle 10iu's

## thunderin

This is to document the results from Chinese generic blue cap HGH over the course of a year.

Stats:

Ht: 175cm (5'9")
Wt: 92kg (202lbs)
Age: 40
Bodybuilding for 26 years
AAS Cycles: too many and too many years to remember :Icon Rolleyes: 

Goal: 

#1 Permanently replace AAS usage with HGH 

Background:

HGH: I began my HGH cycle 3 months ago with 2 iu's ed. Since then, I have increased my daily dosage to 10iu's. After lowering my T4 dosage from its current level, I will maintain it at 100-125mcg ed.

Vitamins and supplements:

Complete array.

Protein:

Min: 190g daily

Injects: 

3.3iu's 3:00am
3.3iu's 7:00am
3.3iu's 4:00pm

AAS: I began my AAS cycle in Feb 06, and my weight peaked at 107kg (235lbs). yes, I became a fat slob by eating anything and everything I could get my hands on. Since then, the combination of dieting, cardio and a mild diuretic for my BP has brought my weight down to 92kg (202lbs).

I will not mention my previous AAS dosage due to the high level. I will start an agressive PCT the first week of May.

Cardio: 

30-45 minutes 6 x every week (medium intensity cycle)

Muscle training:

5 on 1 off (I train each muscle once per week with every set to failure)

Training music: 

Godsmack 

Favorite tracks: Temptation and Vamipire

Month 1: 

No noticeable difference except for the soreness from my injection sites. Water weight drops quickly.

Month 2: 

My stamina with regards to cardio has increased and I started ECA stack. My urine looks a bit oily. Guess that the nasty fat coming out. Stopped smoking again.

Month 3:

My waist is down to 32" from 37". Bought new clothes that fit properly. I stopped the ECA stack because my heart felt like it was beating too fast. Also, my nose was getting raw from the ma huang (natural ephedra) spray inhaler. Started smoking again (really difficult to quit).

Will donate blood tomorrow. believe me, I have way too much :What?: . Switched HGH suppliers and quite satisfied with the change.

Here are some pics from today in the next post.

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## thunderin

I know I still have a long way to go, but that's the great thing about bodybuilding. 

It's my never-ending endeavor to improve that guy in the mirror.

I most humbly submit my photos.

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## plzr8

interesting goal, ill be following your progress

good luck bro

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## SVTMuscle*

damn old man, you look good.... give it hell!!

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## acciaio

humbly ????

I know 10 to 15 guys that can give away their sister to look like you...

Very solid.....

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## Gear

Good luck with your cycle, looking very well for you ages as said above. What GH are you using?

-Gear

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## thunderin

Chinese generic blue caps 

10iu/vial

Noticed tightness in my knuckles and a bit of water almost immediately, but remember, I started my GH cycle 3 months ago.

See photo below.

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## thunderin

The other generic GH I was using before was the same blue cap but a larger 18iu vial. Too expensive.

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## Pluna6000

Wow, Thunderin. You use 10i.us a day? How does that work for you? I actually told my doctor that I was using 4 i.us a day and he is very liberal and open and loves HGH and told me that 4ius was way to much and that I should get blood work done each quarter. Anyway, I'm no expert just thought I'd mention it. Good luck.

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## thunderin

> Wow, Thunderin. You use 10i.us a day? How does that work for you? I actually told my doctor that I was using 4 i.us a day and he is very liberal and open and loves HGH and told me that 4ius was way to much and that I should get blood work done each quarter. Anyway, I'm no expert just thought I'd mention it. Good luck.


Listen to your doctor because he gave you his expert opinion.

****This log is to document the year 2007-2008 and is for informational purposes only. It is not intended to be followed by others.****

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## thunderin

I actually ate a few pieces of cheese with bread on a steak sandwich I made. I got about halfway through and started feeling guilty :No No:  I know it's BS, but I have a conscience. 

The only carbs I usually get are from fresh vegetables...no potatoes, bread, noodles. Steamed rice maybe once a day only. Eating lots of kimchi and other Korean side dishes to liven up my chicken breast and tuna.

Ran my GH injections spaced more closely today: 

7am
2pm
6pm

My body temp seems to be higher, and I have more energy...like I really need more anyway.

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## SVTMuscle*

damn i wish my generics came looking like that

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## Gear

Sounds good mate, sounds good. All the best and keep us updated.

-Gear

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## thunderin

Had a scare last night. My BP had been going up, and I started getting headaches. I got dizzy in the gym after benching. I checked it and it was 147/102. Mind you, I have run adex for a many months and had added hydrochlorothiazide about 4 weeks ago (100mg ed) when I went over 7iu's per day. I needed something stronger.

I immediately got to the pharmacy as fast as I could and bought spironolactone. Spironolactone and hydrochlorothiazide are the active ingredients in Aldactazide and second only to Lasix for potency. I took 200mg of each and pissed all night long. I took another 150mg of each this morning, and by this afternoon my BP was down to 132/84. I loaded up on bananas today for the potassium. Spironolactone does not strip your body of potassium but hydrochlorothiazide certainly does. Not enough potassium and less water equals bas muscle cramps. I am fine now.

Why did this happen? The GH dose I was taking caused more water retention than I had accounted for, simple.

I will start my HCG 18-20 days from last test decanoate inject, and thus, PCT comes early. Will run HCG at 500iu's ed for 21 days. Adex, nolva and clomid are also part of my PCT, as it will be an agressive one.

Instead of running my GH 7 days per week. I will back off to 5 on and 2 off.

A word of warning to all: Take care with your blood pressure and water retention. (trenbolone , test, anadrol , dianabol and eq)

Funny thing, when I donated blood (400ml) 2 days ago, I felt relief. Many people around me had to lay down after donating only 200ml. 

The wife got really pissed off at me :Frown: .

Life and learn.

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## thunderin

Update: I just took my BP this evening, and it was 124/78 :7up:

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## Microbrew

I'm only doing 3ius of hyge's right now and I'm hold water also, I can't imagine how much water I would be holding if I was taking 10ius. Especially at night time, my hands swell up get really tight.

Micro

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## jbarkley

Thunderin....one word comes to mind after looking at you pics....shredded, Bro you look great! As you get older you see your skin getting very thin. It's a great thing that comes with age if your lean! Good luck on the smoking thing....Livestrong!

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## Sharky72

Micro. If I was jacked like you I'd feel like I was carrying water weight too Lol. Just starting to feel and see the effects after 4wks. Pumps at the gym are really noticeable and I went from a 34 to a 33 waist without losing a pound. Looking foward to trying the Jins soon!!!

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## Microbrew

> Micro. If I was jacked like you I'd feel like I was carrying water weight too Lol. Just starting to feel and see the effects after 4wks. Pumps at the gym are really noticeable and I went from a 34 to a 33 waist without losing a pound. Looking foward to trying the Jins soon!!!



LOL, What's up bro? You taking 5ius now, I'm going to start 4ius tomorrow, 2ius 2x ed. 

Micro

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## Mealticket

great read bro.
Looking shreaded
I'll be following this so keep it updated

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## thunderin

Feeling great the Aldactazide has made a huge difference. I take it in the morning and afternoon (spironolactone 60mg and hydrochlorothiazide 75 x 2) My heart rate has been a bit high though. Possibly due to the T4...so, I have lowered my daily dose to 150mcg. 

The long estered test decanoate I was using will take some time to clear my system as will the tren enanthate . On the upside, I can run my anavar longer. I will have to adjust my PCT accordingly.

The half life of the decanoate ester is 15 days and that of enanthate is 10 days. If you inject 450mg of any decanoate the time it will take to clear your system looks like this:

Day 1: inject 450mg decanoate 
Day 16: 225mg remain in your body
Day 31: 112.5mg remain in your body
Day 46: 56.25mg remain in your body
Day 51: 28.12mg remain in your body
Day 66: 14mg remain in your body
Day 81: 7mg remain in your body
Day 96: 3.5mg remain in your body

My PCT protocol calls for 2 separate cycles of HCG each 20 days long at 300iu's per day. Of course, clomid, nolva and Arimidex will also be used.

So nice to not have the "Fat Bastard" look anymore, and no one asks me if I am a powerlifter anymore. 

Lots more attention from the ladies as well. Too bad though, I'm married :What?:  Remember, I live in Asia, and 90% of the women here have low to very low bodyfat. Men over 15% and women over 20% bodyfat are not common (even after they have children).

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## thunderin

Another interesting note on taking a diuretic while using GH is that I have much less swelling in my hands and stiffness in my joints now than before I started taking spironolactone in combination with hydrchlorothiazide.

Could it be that edema in your hands caused by GH use is one of the key contributors to pain and numbness that some people experience while using GH :Hmmmm: 

From my personal experience, I believe it is.

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## aadrenaline

nice bro looking mean as hell

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## thunderin

15 days since my last shot of test dec, and I started my PCT last night with 500iu's of HCG and 20mg's nolva. Obviously, my test levels both exogenous and endogenous are very low, and I should feel like crap. Not so and no depression either. I feel like I am on a natural high.

I have never felt so jacked in my life on any PCT. My workout was smokin' hot and the pump was great. My stamina just would not stop either.

My striations seem to get deeper by the day which is no doubt helped by the diuretics. I am totally satisfied and more :AaGreen22: My BP is 128/73.

I now have no doubt that I can permanently replace AAS use with GH, keep all my gains and still take my physique to the next level. All this, and in a much healthier way. Instead of an AAS pumped for life, it will be a shredded and youthful GH pumped for life.

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## hardgainer1

> 15 days since my last shot of test dec, and I started my PCT last night with 500iu's of HCG and 20mg's nolva. Obviously, my test levels both exogenous and endogenous are very low, and I should feel like crap. Not so and no depression either. I feel like I am on a natural high.
> 
> I have never felt so jacked in my life on any PCT. My workout was smokin' hot and the pump was great. My stamina just would not stop either.
> 
> My striations seem to get deeper by the day which is no doubt helped by the diuretics. I am totally satisfied and moreMy BP is 128/73.
> 
> I now have no doubt that I can permanently replace AAS use with GH, keep all my gains and still take my physique to the next level. All this, and in a much healthier way. Instead of an AAS pumped for life, it will be a shredded and youthful GH pumped for life.


i agree, i am going to cut down on aas and do a lot more GH in future,

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## thunderin

I am truly amazed. My strength was a good 25% higher today during my leg workout. It basically back to point where it was before I started my diet while on a rather heavy AAS cycle 3 months ago. Even more, I had a stamina that was as good or better than anything I ever got while on my best cycles.

How can this be? I haven't had any AAS in near 4 weeks nor any stimulants either (ECA) and I have cut way down on my coffee consumption, now 1-2 small cups per day.

I had no idea these gains were possible from GH. I can only theorize that it is dose dependant as I have never run more than 5-6iu's ed during past cycles.

My metabolism is off the scale also. I stay hungry no no matter how much I eat...within a couple of hours I famished again. What's going on?

I am sure my IGF levels are off the scale.

And to boot it all of, I am supposed have a very low sex drive now too. This cycle I just came off was a 13-month cycle that included large weekly doses of both tren and deca , not at the same time, for months on end. Well, it came up while on the LifeCycle, and didn't go down for a good 15 minutes. The girls in tight lycra in front of my on the treadmills might have helped :AaGreen22: .

I love GH!

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## Skills

Excellent thread bro. I come off cycle in about 6 weeks and am taking 5 ius of gh a day now. Am seriously considering stepping it up to 10 ius over the next few weeks. Thanks.

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## thunderin

Feeling great! I had dropped to 88kg before I went off the diuretics and I added 5iu's ed of Humulin R. Well "Boom" my weight has skyrocketed to 95.5kg (210lbs), and my strength is off the scale. 

I was doing bent over barbell rows with 140kg (315lbs) tonight for sets of 10. I just couldn't get enough, and the aggression was there and strong as well.

I kid you not, this is like the Rolls Royce of sports enhancing substances. And the GH, slin, T4 stack is truly amazing. I feel like I am juiced to the gills, but I have not had any AAS in over 4 weeks. Better sense of well being than even Dbol gives.

Sex drive is strong also. Hell, I was shocked to see that I even had semen coming out of my penis when I took a dump.

The gym girls are great too. Tight ass short lycra shorts and camel toes.
Love that bent over kick back machine. Excuse me...you doing great but can I help you with your form? :AaGreen22: 

I could not be more satisfied. This is no AAS bridge...it is a way of life!

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## thunderin

When reading this please keep in mind that i just came off of a 13-month very heavy dose AAS cycle. What I am experiencing is truly extraordinary.

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## SVTMuscle*

How long into the cycle, and what are the results again so far?

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## finny

> Sex drive is strong also. Hell, I was shocked to see that I even had semen coming out of my penis when I took a dump.


Somehow I don't want to picture this.  :AaSport19:  

How's the bf now? Any pic updates?

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## thunderin

> How long into the cycle, and what are the results again so far?


4 months into the cycle

Results: Too many to mention, but over one month since any AAS and my strength, aggression (almost) and training level are as high as they were when I was running around 2g total AAS per week. The thing is...I have no mentionable sides now.

10iu GH ed
5iu Humulin R (only on muscle training days and 2 weeks on/off)
100-150mcg T4 ed

PCT
500iu HCG ed
.05mg Adex ed
20mg Nolva ed

Diet: min 180g protein and as much rice and potatoes as I want

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## thunderin

> Somehow I don't want to picture this.  
> 
> How's the bf now? Any pic updates?


Holding some water now so the definition is a bit blurred. Kind of difficult to accumulate bodyfat on 10iu's of GH and with 100-150mcg T4

Stomach is sticking out some due to the volume of food I am eating. But even when it bulges, I still see my abs clearly.

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## soo2bhuge

thanx for the updates man. i'm on 3iu/day now and feeling great. although i tend to hold a bit of water. haven't started losing weight even though i've been doing cardio twice/day. i actually went up almost 15lb in the past 3 weeks that i started it. i'm hoping to drop all the water soon.

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## Booz

this is a great and informative thread and i will keep my eye on this to see how you progress................
looking good mate.....

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## Booz

just started my second run with gh and will be ramping it upto 10iu........

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## veteran_47

great thread. I'll be following it for sure. I just came off AAS too 4 weeks ago. I bumped my hgh ( generic blue tops) to 8 ius ed ( during my last cycle it was @ 6ius) , along with some igf1 lr3 ( 100 mcgs) PWO. although I feel as though I've dropped a few lbs, caloric intake has been down a bit lately. just kind of getting tired of the food I eat I guess. yes, hgh is amazing stuff. I've been lifting since I was 13 and I'm 47 now. many cycles over the years, but been on hgh for 2yrs this april. when I started, I was about 200lbs. my last weight check ( end of february) I was 233 @ 8% BF.

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## thunderin

I was in the pharmacy, and I've been kind of getting tired of using 4 different syringes only for GH not to mention my pins for slin and HCG (total 6 pins per day). The pharmacist shows me the Eli Lily Insulin Injection Pen. I did some quick calculations on whether or not it would be useful, and I bought it along with the disposable injection tips and a cartridge of slin to boot :Smilie: 

See the pic below.

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## thunderin

First, I empty the insulin cartridge.

Then, I load the cartridge with my reconstituted gh (10iu/mL)

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## thunderin

After loading the cartridge, I place it inside of the injection pen.

Then, I screw on the injection cap which is made by BD (a name you can trust).

Notice the end of the injection pen has a dial for adjusting the dose you want which is graduated in 1iu (0.01mL increments)

The cartridge will hold up to 3mL.

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## thunderin

Next step is to inject. 

Clean the area to inject with alcohol. Dial in the amount you want. Inject and push the button in. Clean again with alcohol.

Replace the cap. The needle is tiny and painless.

Pack everything back into the convenient carrying case. Notice that is has a compartment for an extra cartridge too.

Refrigerate and your done :Wink/Grin: .

I love this pen.

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## thunderin

Oh, forgot the last pics.

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## finny

Ok, I'm a bit slow this morning. I'm confused as to the steps and how you're better off now. Can you maybe contrast old vs new so dummies like myself can understand better?

Thanks.

Edit: You're still doing slin and HCG separate? And you did four GH per day?

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## thunderin

> Ok, I'm a bit slow this morning. I'm confused as to the steps and how you're better off now. Can you maybe contrast old vs new so dummies like myself can understand better?
> 
> Thanks.


Not sure exactly what you mean, but this saves time and effort compared with syringes.

If you are referring to this cycle, I have replaced all AAS usage with GH, and I am finally living healthy.

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## finny

With the pen I mean. I think I understand now. You did 4 GH injection per day and you were using 4 syringes. Now with the pen, you load it up once and it's good for the whole day?

Is your plan to keep refilling the same cartidge or you are using a new one each time(you fill for one day?). If using the same, any concern for contamination?

Great log. I will get into GH either fall of this year or sometime next year.

Your dosage is pretty high, I think. Any concern for GH gutt? I think in the past, people did 20IUs per week we ED injects. You're doing 50IUs per week?

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## thunderin

The pen holds 3mL or 30iu at 10iu/mL. That is the strength I use for reconstitution.

GH gut is not a real concern as I have not seen enough documentation to convince me that it is permanent nor that it comes only from GH use.

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## jbarkley

Thunderin, your threads are always informative and interesting....thanks, keep us updated!

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## Vincent

Thundrin, Im three weeks in at 2.5 iu a day. Im holding some waterweight as you did. When will the waterweight and intial fat loss start to happen? Eating real clean just feel really pumped and kind of bloated. In three weeks I gained 9 lbs already Crazy I know. Thanks bro. Im doing pharmacy compounded somotropin.

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## Microbrew

Can you aspirate with this?


Micro

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## thunderin

> Thundrin, Im three weeks in at 2.5 iu a day. Im holding some waterweight as you did. When will the waterweight and intial fat loss start to happen? Eating real clean just feel really pumped and kind of bloated. In three weeks I gained 9 lbs already Crazy I know. Thanks bro. Im doing pharmacy compounded somotropin.


A lot of it depends on how long you've been on GH and how quickly your body adjusts itself to that dose.

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## thunderin

> Can you aspirate with this?
> 
> 
> Micro


The needle tip is only 8mm long (0.315 inches) The chances of hitting a vein are slim. If your bodyfat is low enough, you should be able to clearly see the veins on your stomach.

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## thunderin

I think my PCT is going well. The wife and I went at it 3 times yesterday and no viagra or cialis in 2 weeks.

4 1/2 weeks without AAS after a 13-month cycle.

She keeps giving me a dirty look....not sure why :LOL: ?

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## thunderin

My strength is exploding upwards. I inject my GH and slin both subq. Remember that I am doing 4 injects per day of GH between 7am and 4pm (7am, 10:15am 1:30 and 4p4 As such, I want my slin to be active for the majority of this time so I use Humulin R, and I inject it at 7am. This way it is in my blood stream for most of the period that I am using GH. Another 150mcg of T4 goes on top of that divided up into 3 - 50mcg doses with my GH injects.

I upped my slin dose yesterday to 15iu's and felt great. Just so damn hungry all the time, and I cannot seem to get full :Shrug: .

Smokin' hot Shoulder workout today:

Standing barbell overhead press to back of neck (no belt) 225lbs (100kg) x 6 x 3

Standing barbell upright rows (no belt) 175lbs (80kg) x 6 x 3

Standing dumbell side shoulder raises 50 pounders x 6 x 3

Rear delt dumbell raises 35 pounders x 6 x 3

AAS were never this good to me :Bbbump:

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## thunderin

Strength still going up along with my stamina.

Chest day:

Flat bench 315 (140kg) 4 sets x 6 reps

too tired from shoulders to do inclines

4 more sets up incline cable flyes

Nice aggression today too.

Love that huma-pen...my injects are fast, clean, easy and painless.

Chatting up a librarian type who wanted to "practice English" to finish things off :Icon Rolleyes:

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## thunderin

Have laid off of slin for tha past few days as it was making me too tired. And, as I suspected, I dropped water weight by doing so. Nice to have the extra weight, but the Pillbury Dough Boy look is not what I am after.

Slin combines with GH does give a big boost to strength though. The biggest difference I have noticed since I came off AAS over a month ago is my recovery time. Yes, high does GH will give you more strength, and even more if used in tandem with slin, but it seems to take a few more days to heal up after a merciless workout.

I cannot rave enough about how great the Humapen doubles as a GH injection vehicle. Clean, quick and efficient.

I have cut back my GH injections from 7 on/off to 6 on/off so as not to shut down my own pituitary gland too hard.

*As far as keeping gains from my AAS cycle go, I have not lost any muscle size in the past 5 weeks since I stopped AAS usage.

I haven't posted sooner as I got God of War II for my PS2. Yes, 40 yrs old and an avid PC and PS2 gamer :Welcome: .

Peace.

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## finny

Glad to see everything is going great.

I think I have asked you this before. For the Humapen, you keep re-filling the same cartridge over and over with GH? It looks like a great idea.

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## thunderin

> Glad to see everything is going great.
> 
> I think I have asked you this before. For the Humapen, you keep re-filling the same cartridge over and over with GH? It looks like a great idea.


Yes. I use the same cartridge for 2-3 weeks.

It should work well with any low viscosity peptide.

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## thunderin

Another amazing workout today. My strength and endurance continue to go up. 

Weight 97kg (214 lbs)

Holding less water weight now that I am not running the slin.

Still eating as much protein as I can and almost anything else for that matter.

I have to say that without a doubt, this has been the fastest and best PCT I have ever run in my life. It has been 5 weeks now without AAS, and my sex drive is strong.

*I have not lost any gains at all, and my weight has increased 7kg (16 lbs). My strength is as high now as it was during the peak of my 13-month AAS cycle which included tren e and var among other AAS.

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## thunderin

Weight 98kg (216lbs) and still going up.

Sides have set in a bit. 

Is the numbness when writing or typing for a long time from the water retention?

What causes the joint pain? 

What is the mechanism that causes so much water retention? My fingers look and feel like sausages.

I thought I was supposed to be sleeping better? I wake up hungry 1-2 times per night and must eat.

Anyway, my strength is high and I feel great.

Have gone to 5 on/ 2 off and will go back on the slin next week. Need to buy another injection pen...one for GH and one for slin

Have taken a couple of days off from the T4. How long have any of you run T4 before? I heard Frank Zane had problems because of it? 

Peace

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## soo2bhuge

> Have taken a couple of days off from the T4. How long have any of you run T4 before? I heard Frank Zane had problems because of it?


I just stopped my T4 after about 2 weeks. Couldn't handle my heart beating out of my chest. I actually just took ephedra for the second day in a row and I have seemed to drop about 6lb of water, due to the GH cycle, within a 12hr. period. We'll see if I get it back but I couldn't stand the water retention.

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## thunderin

> I just stopped my T4 after about 2 weeks. Couldn't handle my heart beating out of my chest. I actually just took ephedra for the second day in a row and I have seemed to drop about 6lb of water, due to the GH cycle, within a 12hr. period. We'll see if I get it back but I couldn't stand the water retention.


My heart has been beating really fast also. I went over everything I was taking a came up with that it could only be the T4. Thanks for confirming that.

I am feeling pretty bloated too, but I take aldactazide if it gets too bad. 

I just did some research and it shows that T4 has a half life of 5-7 days. Talk about a toxic buildup if taking it everyday! :2nono:

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## Random

Thunderin havent seen u around for a while man! hope this cycle goes great for u..

CD

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## jerseyboy

Wow! This thread fascinates me. I've been wanting to try running GH at higher doses and get away from AAS. I'm 36 now and also looking to live a little safer. I actually have 2 kits of the same generic blue caps you have. I've only ever used Jin so it's good to see that these are working for you.

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## soo2bhuge

> My heart has been beating really fast also. I went over everything I was taking a came up with that it could only be the T4. Thanks for confirming that.
> 
> I am feeling pretty bloated too, but I take aldactazide if it gets too bad. 
> 
> I just did some research and it shows that T4 has a half life of 5-7 days. Talk about a toxic buildup if taking it everyday!



Your other post regarding T4 is excellent...I suggest others read it before incorporating T4 in their GH cycle. Thunderin...check out the "Over 30" section http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...91#post3428791 , he dropped his T4 as well. Looks to be a common problem. Everyone should definitely check out your other thread http://forums.steroid.com/forumdisplay.php?f=75 . 
As far as ephedra, I have only taken it for the past 2 days but it has helped me with the bloat and I dropped 6lb. Do you know anything regarding encorporating ephedra into a GH cycle? I don't think it should affect it in any way, but you sound as though you may know a bit more.

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## thunderin

> Your other post regarding T4 is excellent...I suggest others read it before incorporating T4 in their GH cycle. Thunderin...check out the "Over 30" section http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...91#post3428791 , he dropped his T4 as well. Looks to be a common problem. Everyone should definitely check out your other thread http://forums.steroid.com/forumdisplay.php?f=75 . 
> As far as ephedra, I have only taken it for the past 2 days but it has helped me with the bloat and I dropped 6lb. Do you know anything regarding encorporating ephedra into a GH cycle? I don't think it should affect it in any way, but you sound as though you may know a bit more.


I was running an ECA stack at the beginning of this GH cycle as I was still finishing up my cutting AAS cycle. My ephedra was in the form of a Chinese ma huang nasal spray. It definitely accelerated fat loss and sped my metabolism up in general. However, I was running it with T4, and I had heart palpitations even while resting, so I dropped it. 

I plan on using the ECA stack again in the future, but this time without the T4.

I also had a drop in water weight from it. One of the best ways I have come across to drop water is the use of Aldactazide (spironolactone and hydrochlorothiazide). I had to buy the 2 separately here. 50mg of each 2 x per day with plenty of fluid intake should got rid of the bloat safely within a few days. I increase the dose a bit if I need more water loss. Monitor your blood pressure regularly when using these because it may get quite low if you are not using AAS.

Thanks

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## AlwaysCutting12

As for the half-life situation... what would one do as a solution? take a dose every 5-7 days? Would it then be better to run t3 instead?

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## fred9

> I was running an ECA stack at the beginning of this GH cycle as I was still finishing up my cutting AAS cycle. My ephedra was in the form of a Chinese ma huang nasal spray. It definitely accelerated fat loss and sped my metabolism up in general. However, I was running it with T4, and I had heart palpitations even while resting, so I dropped it. 
> 
> I plan on using the ECA stack again in the future, but this time without the T4.
> 
> I also had a drop in water weight from it. One of the best ways I have come across to drop water is the use of Aldactazide (spironolactone and hydrochlorothiazide). I had to buy the 2 separately here. 50mg of each 2 x per day with plenty of fluid intake should got rid of the bloat safely within a few days. I increase the dose a bit if I need more water loss. Monitor your blood pressure regularly when using these because it may get quite low if you are not using AAS.
> 
> Thanks


really a nice thread to read...
any idea for how long you can use Aldactazide ?

----------


## thunderin

Still searching, but this is what I have found. May not be good for long term use.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20000515/3049.html

"One postulated but not yet proven explanation is that the higher diuretic dosages used in the large trials cause relative hypokalemia, as well as increased serum lipid levels, insulin resistance and uric acid levels. These adverse metabolic effects counteract the positive cardiovascular benefits of blood pressure reduction. Such effects do not occur when diuretics are administered in a low dosage, such as 6.25 or 12.5 mg per day of hydrochlorothiazide.11"

"
*Potassium-Sparing and Thiazide Diuretics*
The discrepancy between the JNC VI recommendations for first-line use of thiazide diuretics and the actual use of these agents in clinical practice may be attributable to physicians' concerns about the development of hypokalemia and hypomagnesemia, as well as the marketing of newer agents by pharmaceutical companies. Combination therapy with a potassium-sparing diuretic and a thiazide diuretic attempts to reduce the risk of adverse metabolic effects. Combination therapy does not obviate the need for serial monitoring of serum electrolyte levels, but it does decrease the incidence of thiazide-induced hypokalemia without an increased risk of hyperkalemia.12"


"In one large postmarketing surveillance study of patients treated with triamterene-hydrochlorothiazide,12 the incidence of hypokalemia was approximately one half to one third that expected in hydrochlorothiazide monotherapy. In addition, the amiloride-hydrochlorothiazide combination caused significantly less alteration of serum potassium levels than did hydrochlorothiazide given alone in dosages of 25 to 100 mg per day.15 The clinical applicability of the findings may be questionable because the studies used hydrochlorothiazide dosages that were significantly higher than those currently recommended."

"The low dosages of hydrochlorothiazide (12.5 to 25 mg per day) advocated in the JNC VI provide significant blood pressure reduction while minimizing electrolyte abnormalities.19 It remains unclear whether the addition of a potassium-sparing agent confers additional benefit compared with a low dosage of hydrochlorothiazide alone."

----------


## llrockyll

bro hcg should not be taken during pct time it should be taken throughout ur cycle or a few weeks before u end ur cycle.

----------


## jerseyboy

Where are you getting that information? HCG is commonly used for PCT.

----------


## chris210

Hey Bro, I saw the pic you posted of your gh. I think it is the same that I have. I have been unable to source it. Here is a link to my pictures. http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=296459

Is it the same as yours? Legit? Mine allegedly came from china.

Thanks

----------


## thunderin

> Hey Bro, I saw the pic you posted of your gh. I think it is the same that I have. I have been unable to source it. Here is a link to my pictures. http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=296459
> 
> Is it the same as yours? Legit? Mine allegedly came from china.
> 
> Thanks


The pic of the GH in the box looks exactly like mine, and yes, mine is Chinese.

----------


## thunderin

Bodyweight 101kg (223lbs)

Now that I have stopped the T4, my weight is going up quicker. The slin is helping me to recover more quickly as well.

7am 10iu's Humulin R and 2.5iu's GH
10am 2.5iu's GH
12:45pm 2.5iu's GH
4pm 2.5iu's GH

I am eating all I want which is a lot. 

Meal 1: 7:15am
Meal 2: 10:15am
Meal 3: 12:30pm
Meal 4: 4pm
Meal 5: 7pm
Meal 6: 10pm
Meal 7: 3am (yes, I wake up starving in the middle of the night)

Since I am running Humulin R, I keep a sugary fruit drink in my hand most all of the day. Less sleepy with the addition of the slin, though I have had some heartburn...probably from overeating.

The pumps I am getting are as good or better than I ever got from dianabol or anadrol as is the weight gain. 

Still have some definition left, but it is smoothing out from the amount of water I am holding and less joint pain than before. 

I cannot say enough about how very pleased I am with the GH slin combo 10iu/10iu. For me, it's fantastic and very clean. Truly the Rolls Royce of performance enhancing pharmaceuticals.

**On another note: a friend of mine who was 3rd in a junior nationals competition a few years back has gone off T4 as well due to a racing hearbeat. He was running it for 6 weeks and peakd out at 175mcg ed.

I think T4 has its place, but I personally don't care much for running it for more than 1 1/2 months.

----------


## chris210

thanks for the info. glad your cycle is going well.

----------


## thunderin

My GH and slin cycle has turned into a summer bulker. I am a full 13kg (29lbs) heavier than I was 5 weeks ago, and it's been a week and a half since I dropped the T4. Remember, I have been off AAS for over a month and a half and am well into my aggressive PCT.

I am still eating 6-7 times per day and taking in loads of protein and most any other thing I want to eat too.

Yes, I am holding a lot of water but my BP is fine and I feel great. The only sides are that my fingers feel like oversized sausages and I get a bit of joint pain. Oh yes, I stay hungry almost 24/7. Thank God, food is cheap here ($1.50 US for a kilo of beef)

I know I look like crap, but I am really trying to take myself as far as I can with this. I figure that I'm 40 years old, and if I don't do it now, I never will.

Height 175cm (5'9")
Weight 101kg (223lbs)

I very humbly submit these pics that were taken this evening. The last one is me 13kg (30lbs) lighter 6 weeks ago.

----------


## AlwaysCutting12

I wouldn't get down on myself man, in my honest opinion you look much better than you did in your last cycle log when you were pumping massive quantities of oil in your body and stressing your internal organs. Take comfort in knowing you're not directly stressing your body nearly as much, and try to focus on the fact you dont feel like a toxic waste dump from all that juice.

Best of luck

----------


## finny

> I know I look like crap, but I am really trying to take myself as far as I can with this. I figure that I'm 40 years old, and if I don't do it now, I never will.
> 
> Height 175cm (5'9")
> Weight 101kg (223lbs)
> 
> I very humbly submit these pics that were taken this evening.


What are your goals?

Looking good. I like your pics from few weeks ago better, but that's just me.

Oh, by the way, you forgot to 'erase' your tatoo in one of your pics.

Edit: Looked again, you look good here too. Obviously more massive, and still pretty low bf.

----------


## Dizz28

Wow, nice GH log. You look very solid, very little body fat. Very good pics.

Nice strength too "Flat bench 315 (140kg) 4 sets x 6 reps"

I'm sure you are doing heavier or more than that now but good job. Interested in the rest of your log. I will be reading.

Dizz

----------


## thunderin

> What are your goals?


My goal with this cycle is to permanently replace AAS use with GH. 

Thanks

----------


## znak

> I know I look like crap, but I am really trying to take myself as far as I can with this. I figure that I'm 40 years old, and if I don't do it now, I never will.


You are looking great now.

There is life after fifty, so take care of your body now. Switching to hgh is a good move in that direction.

Keep it up bro.

----------


## thunderin

The transformation:

The first pics are a little more than a year ago. I am now steroid free and over 15kg (33lbs) heavier.

----------


## Skills

Nice work bro, big improvement. Congrats.

----------


## finny

Very nice, big improvement.

On another note. The Humapen that you're using. I've read the instructions for them and it says that once filled with slin, you shouldn't put it back in the fridge. Not sure why, but I would think it's got to be something with the pen as slin can be in or out of the fridge for 28 days - duration of it's useful life.

Now, that you use the pen for GH, do you put it back in the fridge? What is your protocol?

Thanks.

----------


## thunderin

Thanks

I keep my GH loaded cartridge inside the pen and refrigerated at all times, as I also do with my Humulin R insulin .

I use a thermal-insulated lunchbox with icepacks (ziplock sandwich bags filled with water and then frozen) for getting it to and from the refrigerator at work.

----------


## finny

Thanks, you have a nice system going there.

Every considered Humalog? My understanding is that it is more desirable for bb as it is fast acting, and is in and out of your system rather quickly - that's what we want.

----------


## thunderin

Humalog is not avaliable here, only Humulin R.

----------


## thunderin

It is my personal opinion that GH and insulin cycles are the way to go for the experienced and drug tested amateur or professional athlete. Both substances are legal with a prescription and are undetectable by most screening methods. 

I firmly believe that GH will keep you young and not mess up your natural testosterone levels . It actually boosts my libido.

----------


## qazqaz

looking good thunderin...very impressive and excellent layout to your posts. this is where the best info comes from...real results and outcomes from an honest guy

----------


## darkwing

Great thread. I am thinking of trying GH in the future, and getting away from AAS. I am very gyno prone anyway. I thought I read somewhere that GH can cause gyno. Is that true? If so, is it dose ***endant?

----------


## thunderin

> Great thread. I am thinking of trying GH in the future, and getting away from AAS. I am very gyno prone anyway. I thought I read somewhere that GH can cause gyno. Is that true? If so, is it dose ***endant?


Sorry but I don't have much info on gyno other than the fact that mine started when I was 13 years old and was hereditary.

----------


## thunderin

Been away for a few days at the beach, and stupidly, I let myself get quite sunburned.

I bet the GH will help my skin recover more quickly.

Nice to swim and not see grossly obese people anywhere....welcome to Asia.

----------


## ironaddict69

ok wait. why did semen come out of your dong when you took a shit?
and are you really tired with that much GH?

----------


## thunderin

> ok wait. why did semen come out of your dong when you took a shit?


I can only suppose it is producing more than normal and came out by force of pressure.




> and are you really tired with that much GH?


I take my afternoon nap right after my last shot of the day, and it is some of the best sleep ever. Also, I have been eating like a pig which could be a contributing factor.

Actually, I just woke up from my nap as I write this.

----------


## finny

Thunderin, when using the pen, do you prime it each time for GH? I think that's what they recommend in the manual. If that's the case, then if I understand it correctly, you would be wasting some GH while priming?

Got the pen, it's free here when you buy slin.

Thanks.

----------


## thunderin

> Thunderin, when using the pen, do you prime it each time for GH? I think that's what they recommend in the manual. If that's the case, then if I understand it correctly, you would be wasting some GH while priming?
> 
> Got the pen, it's free here when you buy slin.
> 
> Thanks.


Actually, I don't prime the pen. When you inject with it, the plunger is pushed in but doesn't retract back. Very efficient injection device in my opinion.

Let me know if it works well for you too.

----------


## thunderin

Started back on T4 and the difference is startling. Much more energy and feeling a lot better with just 50mcg ed.

----------


## finny

> Started back on T4 and the difference is startling. Much more energy and feeling a lot better with just 50mcg ed.


Yeah, from my reading it seems that it is suggested to keep it lower - at around 50 or even lower. I think the best bet would be to cycle T4 as well - do couple of months and then take a week or two off.

I will have a run at my GH towards the end of the year. I have it already, just that I want to plan it properly and use it during test run. I'll do the whole thing, gh, slin, test, t4/t3.

----------


## Kato

> I have cut back my GH injections from 7 on/off to 6 on/off so as not to shut down my own pituitary gland too hard.




so you were runnin 7 days on 7 days off

or 7 days on 1 day off?

thanks

----------


## crazyhorse666

great post man. awsome

----------


## thunderin

> so you were runnin 7 days on 7 days off
> 
> or 7 days on 1 day off?
> 
> thanks


7 days on no days off, my bad

now 6 days on 1 day off

----------


## jerseyboy

Hey bro, I have a question. Do you ever feel tired and lethargic? Even with 8-10 hours sleep I'm still draggin ass all the time. No appetite and no drive to do anything. I also have serious CTS and sore joints but not enough for me to lower the dose. I just went up to 6iu's this week with 40mcgs of T4. I don't remember feeling this way on 2iu's a day of Jintropin.

----------


## ironaddict69

> Hey bro, I have a question. Do you ever feel tired and lethargic? Even with 8-10 hours sleep I'm still draggin ass all the time. No appetite and no drive to do anything. I also have serious CTS and sore joints but not enough for me to lower the dose. I just went up to 6iu's this week. I don't remember feeling this way on 2iu's a day of Jintropin.


i was draggin ass so bad with just 3 iu;s i had to stop like...1 month into it.

----------


## jerseyboy

Maybe I should up the T4? It was giving me a racing heart rate and making me jittery.

----------


## thunderin

> Hey bro, I have a question. Do you ever feel tired and lethargic? Even with 8-10 hours sleep I'm still draggin ass all the time. No appetite and no drive to do anything. I also have serious CTS and sore joints but not enough for me to lower the dose. I just went up to 6iu's this week with 40mcgs of T4. I don't remember feeling this way on 2iu's a day of Jintropin.


I was starting to feel lethargic as well last week. Then, I started on 100mcg of T4 on Moday, and boom! Energy out ass. I can only theorize that GH diminishes the production of T4.

Comments?

----------


## thunderin

I will lower the T4 dose starting tomorrow. Maybe 75mcg is best, and the 50mcg tablets have lines to cut them into 4 pieces.

Delicate balancing act trying to figure out the least effective dose of T4.

----------


## jerseyboy

Yeah well I use the liquid from AR-R so the doses are questionable. I'm gonna get some B12 and see if that helps.

----------


## thunderin

The addition of the T4 at 50mcg ed has made a world of difference. My energy levels and appetite are excellent.

I had ballooned up to 101kg and my stomach was looking pretty stretched out from the amount of food I was consuming. With summer soon here and the beach on my list of places to go, I began dieting back down.

GH is similar to AAS in that the amount of water weight I carry ***ends on my diet. My weight is 95kg today, and I can fit back into my size 32 pants today without any belly hanging over. Six-pack attack.

I get my melanotan in a few days and I am very interested to see what results I get.

Also, I am running a second cycle of HCG just because I feel my libido should be a bit higher. Mind you, I was coming off of a 13-month haevy cycle.

Everything else is great.

----------


## jerseyboy

My heart was racing from the T4, I had palputations, anxiety and I was tired as hell anyway. Plus I never feel like eating. I was weight pretty steady until this week. I just feel like crap. I skipped my T4 today and I felt much better. I'm holding the dose at 6iu's and see if the sides subside. I'd like to try the Melanotan but I read that some guys are getting spots. Keep us posted on that issue.

----------


## mixed

hi bro

----------


## mixed

hi bro
you realy have a great body. i wanna ask u if i run hgh for 40 days would u think i will get some results 
i am 19 yrs old and i ve been training for 1.5 year 
u runned an equ, primo and test enathaite before
height: 168
weight: 78

----------


## Growingpains

> hi bro
> you realy have a great body. i wanna ask u if i run hgh for 40 days would u think i will get some results 
> i am 19 yrs old and i ve been training for 1.5 year 
> u runned an equ, primo and test enathaite before
> height: 168
> weight: 78


 : Hijack:  

I can answer that question for you. NO! HGH needs to be run for several months

----------


## finny

> I can answer that question for you. NO! HGH needs to be run for several months


And NO again - you are too young for growth hormone .

----------


## thunderin

> hi bro
> you realy have a great body. i wanna ask u if i run hgh for 40 days would u think i will get some results 
> i am 19 yrs old and i ve been training for 1.5 year 
> u runned an equ, primo and test enathaite before
> height: 168
> weight: 78


Don't even think about. For your age, weight and goals, you can get excellent results from a carefully planned diet along with a proper training programme. Remember dedication and perserverance are key to physical development.

----------


## Growingpains

Thunderin' this is a sweet thread. Keep it up. Please. :Smilie:

----------


## thunderin

Started my melanotan II (loading 1mg ed) yesterday and using tanning bed as well. Will let you know how well it works for me.

The diet has been going well, and I started my ECA stack (using ma huang instead of ephedrine) on Monday. Weight isn't coming off quickly though. Today I am 93kg. Still doing cardio as well.

I get a bit of numbness in the very tip of my finger from time to time, but no big deal. 

I have switched to higher reps with a lower weight for a month to change things up a bit and make my workouts more interesting.

Still very pleased with GH and my pen.

Started the 2nd half of my PCT last Friday with another run of HGC for good measure as I felt my libido was not completely recovered yet, and i am already feeling the results of it (500iu ed). Will run it for a total of 14 days this time. 

Also, taking 1mg arimidex and 40mg nolvadex ed.

All's good.

----------


## justtrnd40

> Started my melanotan II (loading 1mg ed) yesterday and using tanning bed as well. Will let you know how well it works for me.
> 
> The diet has been going well, and I started my ECA stack (using ma huang instead of ephedrine) on Monday. Weight isn't coming off quickly though. Today I am 93kg. Still doing cardio as well.
> 
> I get a bit of numbness in the very tip of my finger from time to time, but no big deal. 
> 
> I have switched to higher reps with a lower weight for a month to change things up a bit and make my workouts more interesting.
> 
> Still very pleased with GH and my pen.
> ...


Hey Bro,
Great reading and great information for everybody. I just want to add about the semen you mention when taking a dump. It is most likely prostate fluid and usually is indicative of an enlarged prostate. It is definately not normal for that to happen. You might want to get your prostate checked if you haven't in a while. Most likely it is nothing serious but I just wanted you to know you might want to keep an eye on it. Keep up the great work and you are giving us "older" guys confidence to keep working. Take care.

----------


## thunderin

> Hey Bro,
> Great reading and great information for everybody. I just want to add about the semen you mention when taking a dump. It is most likely prostate fluid and usually is indicative of an enlarged prostate. It is definately not normal for that to happen. You might want to get your prostate checked if you haven't in a while. Most likely it is nothing serious but I just wanted you to know you might want to keep an eye on it. Keep up the great work and you are giving us "older" guys confidence to keep working. Take care.


Thanks will check it out. It has since ceased.

----------


## thunderin

The melanotan has been making me feel a bit nauseous at night, but the tan it really starting to kick in.

Bodyfat is melting away more quickly as well. Not much numbness in my fingertips today.

Seems like a ritual with all the things I am taking now. But nicely enough, no AAS.

----------


## scottish

Kick ass thread. Im going to be trying some GH pretty soon. I will be 40 in a few months.. GRRRRRRRRRR

----------


## jerseyboy

Hey Thunderin can you please post the details of your ECA stack. I'm thinking about trying something. I don't like using clen too much and I don't have much fat to lose so it's not worth the side affects. I'm guessing you get the MaHuang right from the health food store? I've read that it is actually a natural form of ephedrine.

----------


## thunderin

> Hey Thunderin can you please post the details of your ECA stack. I'm thinking about trying something. I don't like using clen too much and I don't have much fat to lose so it's not worth the side affects. I'm guessing you get the MaHuang right from the health food store? I've read that it is actually a natural form of ephedrine.


The ma huang nasal spray that I use is available OTC at most any pharmacy here in China. Not sure about other countries. The dose seems strong and I can feel a big difference within a couple of minutes after use. The effect is gone after about 90 minutes. I would guess that it is far below the suggested dose of ephedrine for ECA stacks.

I have one cup of instant coffee with it along with only 100mg of aspirin.

That's my ECA stack. It is lower than what is recommended, but I have good results with it.

I have used clen a before, but it made me too shaky and wired.

It all is working well for me now.

Good luck.

----------


## thunderin

The color change my skin has gone through in just 8 days is truly phenominal. I don't think I have ever been this dark in my life, and all that with only 10 minute sessions in the tanning bed ed along with 1mg melanotan II ed. The erections are another nice side as well.

I have started to rotate the GH injections all around my abs to get clearer definition on any lagging sections. A six-pack and a dark tan make a nice addition to summer and the beach.

Not having any negative sides from the T4 now, and I have been careful not to go over 100mcg ed. The ECA stack is working beautifully too.

No sand kicked in my face :Smilie:  For those of you too young to remember the Charles Atlas bodybuilding course, Charles Atlas was the most famous bodybuilder in the world for the greater part of the 20th century before Arnold came along. 

This man is the reason I started bodybuilding 26 years ago. I will forever remain grateful. And as you can guess, Yes, I did order his course when I was 13.

*Tribute to Charles Atlas*




Charles Atlas, 1938 (at 45 years of age)
_Bettmann/Corbis_ 

_original name Angelo Siciliano _  Italian-born American bodybuilder and physical culturist who, with Frederick Tilney and Charles P. Roman, created and marketed a highly popular mail-order bodybuilding course. 



In 1904 Angelo Siciliano immigrated to the United States with his mother and settled in Brooklyn, New York. Skinny and weak, he suffered beatings by a neighbourhood bully and his uncle. The statues of Hercules and other mythological heroes that he saw in a local museum inspired him to build his body. Too poor to afford barbells, he devised a system, later called Dynamic-Tension, that pitted one muscle group against another. Neighbourhood friends soon started likening him to a statue of Atlas. This association was then combined with the nickname Charley to form the name by which he eventually became famous. 
With his newfound muscles and confidence, Atlas joined the circus-vaudeville circuit and appeared in Coney Island sideshows where he performed a variety of strongman feats. He also worked as an artist's model for many sculpted works of classic American heroes on public buildings in New York City, Washington, D.C., and Cleveland, Ohio, and he won such titles as The World's Most Handsome Man and The World's Most Perfectly Developed Man at contests staged by physical culturist Bernarr Macfadden at Madison Square Garden in 1921 and 1922, respectively.


Charles Atlas magazine advertisement, 1962, commonly seen in American publications to promote his  
_"Insult that Made a Man Out of Mac" is a registered trademark of Charles Atlas, Ltd.; photograph, The Granger Collection, New York_ 

Assisted by Tilney, an English naturopath, Atlas employed Dynamic-Tension principles to develop a mail-order course that was the basis for a multimillion-dollar bodybuilding business. Then in 1928, in partnership with Roman, he conducted one of the most celebrated advertising campaigns in American history. Slogans such as You can have a body like mine were accompanied by photographs of the muscular Atlas clad in a leopard breechclout. The most famous image, however, was that of the 97-pound weakling who, after having sand kicked in his face at the beach, employs Dynamic-Tension to build a herculean physique and to challenge the beach bully (_see_ photograph). For generations, comic books and men's magazines have carried Atlas's advertisements, making his name synonymous with manly strength and muscular development.

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article.../Charles-Atlas

----------


## ginkobulloba

Charles Atlas...dude I used to see his ads in the back of the boy scouts magazine I got and he's one of the reasons I became a bodybuilder as well. Must've worked, never got sand kicked in my face.

Glad to hear the melanotan is working for you. There's people here at my gym raving about that stuff, saying they've never been tan before in their lives and now they look like Mexicans.

----------


## thunderin

Spots! Even though I finally have that Panama Jack dark tan, every single freckle that I had has got much darker with the melanotan. I am not too concerned since my freckles were not on my face. Everyone comments on the healthy color that I have, and I must agree that I do look better.

I have switched from injecting GH into only my lower a**ominal area to my upper abs as well due to spot/site injection fat loss. This stuff never ceases to amaze me.

It has been 3 months since I came off AAS, and I feel fully recovered. Nevertheless, I am sticking with my plan to not use AAS for a year. 

Weight 90kg (198lbs)

Finally got my size 32 waist back again.

----------


## jerseyboy

Not for nothin bro but you look a hell of a lot bigger than 198lbs. in your avatar. I mean that as a compliment by the way. Incidentally I'm up to 7iu's a day now and after this summer cycle I plan to follow your lead and drop the AAS for awhile. I've been reading about guys doing 20-30iu's a day 3 days a week. Have you ever tried that protocol?

----------


## thunderin

> Not for nothin bro but you look a hell of a lot bigger than 198lbs. in your avatar. I mean that as a compliment by the way. Incidentally I'm up to 7iu's a day now and after this summer cycle I plan to follow your lead and drop the AAS for awhile. I've been reading about guys doing 20-30iu's a day 3 days a week. Have you ever tried that protocol?


Thanks. As someone once told me, "Consider bodybuilding to be like a life-long marathon rather than a 100 meter dash." 

I have no doubt that the above mentioned protocol can produce excellent results, but I simply feel no need to rush things so much.

I guess it all ***ends on your goals.

----------


## mamias20918756

what's ur diet like right now bro?

----------


## thunderin

> what's ur diet like right now bro?


7am: can of tuna

10am: can of tuna

12:30pm: 2 chicken breast with steamed broccoli or cal***ower

4pm: can of tuna with 3/4 cup of rice and kimchi

8pm: low fat beef with 3/4 cup of rice and kimchi

3am: liquid yoghurt

4 cups of coffee per day along with 3 bottles of Gatorade and water

I stay hungry most of the time, but since summer is here, I want to keep my bodyfat quite low.

----------


## jerseyboy

Yeah I'll bet your hungry. That's not much to eat for a 200 pounder. At least I throw in some oatmeal a couple times a day. I got sick of tuna and chicken so I'm on a Tilapia kick now. I can't get enough of that stuff. Tasty!
Are there beaches in Korea?

----------


## thunderin

> Yeah I'll bet your hungry. That's not much to eat for a 200 pounder. At least I throw in some oatmeal a couple times a day. I got sick of tuna and chicken so I'm on a Tilapia kick now. I can't get enough of that stuff. Tasty!
> Are there beaches in Korea?


Korea, a peninsula, is surrounded by beaches and coastline. Also they have Cheju Island which is really a lovely place off the southern coast. If you like fish, they have fishing boats that will take you out and catch and make fresh sashimi for you right on the spot :Wink/Grin: .

----------


## thunderin

I hope that this will not upset those who have been reading this log, but after a 3-month hiatus, I began another 12-week cutting cycle last night. 

week 1-5 50mg oral turinabol and 50mg Miotolan (furazabol) ed
week 1-9 500mg trenbolone enanthate 
week 1-9 500mg drostanolone enanthate
week 1-9 500mg testosterone enanthate 
week 10-12 testosterone propionate 

week 1-maybe forever 10iu GH ed
week 1-12 100mcg T4 ed
week 1-12 1mg arimidex ed
every 4th day 500iu HCG 
week 1-12 ECA stack 3x ed

I am excited about this combination, and even though it is a cutting cycle, my muscle mass will increase while losing bodyfat.

----------


## jerseyboy

Couldn't resist huh?

----------


## ZaneFan

I respect a man who is honest about his drug use. 

Thumbs up to thunderin.

----------


## taiboxa

> I hope that this will not upset those who have been reading this log, but after a 3-month hiatus, I began another 12-week cutting cycle last night. 
> 
> week 1-5 50mg oral turinabol and 50mg Miotolan (furazabol) ed
> week 1-9 500mg trenbolone enanthate 
> week 1-9 500mg drostanolone enanthate
> week 1-9 500mg testosterone enanthate 
> week 10-12 testosterone propionate 
> 
> week 1-maybe forever 10iu GH ed
> ...


LoL bout dam time!  :Big Grin: 
imo GH can never replace AAS.. aas ... especially tren and a few DHT derivs are so potent and anabolic .. taht the get the LBM Growth from gh ur lookin at about 36iu ED MINIMUM. even at 16iu ED for about 6months.. i noticed VERY lil anabolism as compared to a good olfashion 6weeks of tren!

amazing thread non the less

----------


## plzr8

> LoL bout dam time! 
> imo GH can never replace AAS.. aas ... especially tren and a few DHT derivs are so potent and anabolic .. taht the get the LBM Growth from gh ur lookin at about 36iu ED MINIMUM. even at 16iu ED for about 6months.. i noticed VERY lil anabolism as compared to a good olfashion 6weeks of tren!
> 
> amazing thread non the less


tai...you & tren need to get a room lol

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## taiboxa

> tai...you & tren need to get a room lol


we already GOT ONE! and 2 kids on the way.. Fina and Para

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## thunderin

I got my gear out and started going through everything. It looked so attractive, shiny and inviting. My yellow bottle of tren started speaking to me saying, "I can help you get big, strong and nasty, try me, try me." Then his brother masty e and daddy test joined in. When cousin tbol chimed in too, I was convinced.
The rest is history. Amazing how good I feel today :7up: 

Thanks bros

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## taiboxa

good luck and hope it treats u well.

----------


## thunderin

Starting to feel very anabolic . Pumps, hunger, hot flashes and sweats. Retaining a bit of water but have water pills on hand if needed.

I am trying a different style with my sets as instead of doing 6 rep max's, I am doing 10 rep max's and more sets. My joints are thanking me for this :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  .

Have been a bit sleepless with accelerated heart rate....time to back off on the T4.

Everything else great.

----------


## thunderin

Weight 93.5kg (206lbs)

My weight and strength are going up nicely as is my apetite. No joint pain and libido is quite strong.

I have replaced tuna with canned whole mackeral/herring, and I have upped my rice intake. Also I have upped my fresh vegetable consumption but still keeping my diet very clean.

No new spots since I reduced my melanotan II intake to 0.5mg every 3rd day.

----------


## ZaneFan

> LoL bout dam time! 
> imo GH can never replace AAS.. aas ... especially tren and a few DHT derivs are so potent and anabolic .. taht the get the LBM Growth from gh ur lookin at about 36iu ED MINIMUM. even at 16iu ED for about 6months.. i noticed VERY lil anabolism as compared to a good olfashion 6weeks of tren!
> 
> amazing thread non the less


36iu ED to get the anabolic effect of a good AAS cycle? Sad, but I think you are correct. Not very cost effective now is it? Maybe that is why Stallone had 48 vials on him for a one week visit to Australia. Maybe he is doing 50iu a day?

----------


## thunderin

> 36iu ED to get the anabolic effect of a good AAS cycle? Sad, but I think you are correct. Not very cost effective now is it? Maybe that is why Stallone had 48 vials on him for a one week visit to Australia. Maybe he is doing 50iu a day?


I got dbol -like effects from 15iu ed, but I had to eat like a pig to get them. I don't think I could handle the sides from 36iu ed. My wife would definitely kick my butt for spending that much :Icon Pissedoff:  .

----------


## thunderin

Stopped smoking again earlier this week, and I know I have got to stick with it. What a hypocrite I am to spend 2/3 of my life training and to smoke. 

Last weekend's partying didn't seem to take a toll on me. 2 straight nights in business clubs/hostess clubs with all the extras that go with it made me thankful I was on GH and tren .

I have finally decided that I will go with the following protocol for T4:

50mcg eod to avoid palpitations and increased heart rate. With a 5-day half life, maybe this will help.

----------


## thunderin

The cold nights, getting rained on and exposure to different flu bugs kicked my butt in Korea. I have been on azithromycin (1000mg 1st day and 500mg today and tomorrow) to get my throat and lungs back to normal from a little infection.

Libido is going wild and I think my high test levels are causing me to cum to fast :1laugh: 

My wife's been calling me "rabbit" for a few days now. Being sick in bed dose have its advatanges.

----------


## thunderin

Weight 94.5kg (I had dropped down to 91.5 last week from dieting and being sick)

My strength is going up very quickly, and I surmise it is due to the cocktail off AAS mixed with GH that I am taking now. The oral I am taking now is a mixture of anavar , tbol and miotolan. The sweats I am getting both day and night from the tren are keeping my washing machine busy. 37.5 degrees centigrade here..over 100 fahrenheit

I am going to have to change up my cycle due to recent events...nuf said bout that.

It shaping up to be like this:

week 3-8 75mg dbol ed (maybe a bit longer or a bit more :Smilie: 
week 3-15 600mg deca ew
week 3-15 400mg drostanolone enanthate 
week 3-15 1000mg testosterone decanoate (maybe higher)
week 16-18 testosterone propionate 

week 1-maybe forever 10iu GH ed
week 1-15 50mcg T4 ed
week 1-15 1mg arimidex ed
every 4th day 500iu HCG 

weeks 18-21 aggressive PCT

*On a side note the, I can't last longer than 2 minutes now all the good things rolling around in my system before "Old Sparky" blows his load. What the f...? Hell, I spent too many years trying to overly please women anyway.

----------


## thunderin

Weight 96 kg (211 lbs)

I started back on insulin today @ 6iu and will work my way up to 10iu. Have to keep my Humapens color coded to make sure I know which one is GH and which is insulin.

Aggression, strength, size and appetite are improving quickly. Holding more water but abs still look good.

My diet is clean with no junk food. My staples are rice and beans, fresh vegetables and loads of chicken and fish. I dropped the T4 and cut back to 1 cup of coffee per day, and my heart rate is returning to normal.

I also cut back to 0.5mg melanotan 2 every 3rd day because I was simply too dark. Imagine that, my lily white ass saying I am too dark.

I am happily married, and I am faithful. But, it is so hard. Pretty girls in thongs and tiny tops with smokin' hot bods everywhere. One thing nice about Asia is that you will not see overweight, cellulite laden bodies hardly ever. They are just so damn tight and sexy.....I think the testosterone is working :Bbbump:

----------


## jerseyboy

> Weight 96 kg (211 lbs)
> 
> .....I think the testosterone is working


Yeah I think so. Your tone has changed quite a bit since this thread started you horn dog.

----------


## ZaneFan

"One thing nice about Asia is that you will not see overweight, cellulite laden bodies hardly ever"

Thanks for rubbing it in! I am stuck in a very white American city!

----------


## thunderin

I feel for you bro, I really do.

So, I'm sending you something to think about. And remember, Asia is only a 12 hour flight from the west coast of the US.

From left to right: Miss Korea, Miss Singapore, Miss Japan, Miss China and Miss Malaysia

----------


## thunderin

And to finish off the review, Miss Philippines and Miss Thailand for your viewing pleasure.

I love Asia!!!! :1welcome:

----------


## ZaneFan

> I feel for you bro, I really do.
> 
> So, I'm sending you something to think about. And remember, Asia is only a 12 hour flight from the west coast of the US.
> 
> From left to right: Miss Korea, Miss Singapore, Miss Japan, Miss China and Miss Malaysia


Its 12 hours one way. Its 0 hours on the way back meaning = I wouldnt come back!

----------


## thunderin

Weight 97.5kg

The GH is having a marked synergistic effect with the AAS I am using. My actual AAS dosage is a bit more than I posted :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): . But, I am loving the results. My bodyfat levels are actually decreasing even though I am gaining weight quickly. Excellent.

Hunger levels are off the scale, but keeping a clean diet. No fast food nor cheeses. 6-7 meals per day.

Lovin' it....and not Mackey D's

----------


## thunderin

I am running my test, deca and dbol a "wee bit" higher than posted, but I will refrain from posting my dosages so as not to offend others :Aabreakdance: .

Feeling better than great!

----------


## inheritmylife

> Weight 97.5kg
> 
> The GH is having a marked synergistic effect with the AAS I am using. My actual AAS dosage is a bit more than I posted. But, I am loving the results. My bodyfat levels are actually decreasing even though I am gaining weight quickly. Excellent.
> 
> Hunger levels are off the scale, but keeping a clean diet. No fast food nor cheeses. 6-7 meals per day.
> 
> Lovin' it....and not Mackey D's


Eat your cheese dude. I imagine over yonder you can get it raw and, my favorite, goat.

----------


## thunderin

> Eat your cheese dude. I imagine over yonder you can get it raw and, my favorite, goat.


I took your advice and broke open some gouda and edam this afternoon. You're right. I love that goat cheese too. Funny how not having any fatty foods for a few months makes you crave them.

----------


## thunderin

Cutting back on the arimidex to 0.5mg ed down from 1mg ed. I am very dry, and I feel I need a bit less AI.

I have upped my daily slin dose to 15iu Humulin R taken once in the morning. This way, I am able to take a quick nap late in the afternoon without worrying. If I want to sleep earlier, I simply carb up before laying down. 

*Please don't follow my example unless you have a lot of experience with slin.

The AAS, slin & GH combo is working nicely.

My personality is better too now that the tren is going out of my system, sorry Tai...I ran out....probs in China.

----------


## thunderin

*Understanding Esters and Half Life's* 
*Steroid Half life's*

Anyone new to  steroids may be wondering what this means, even some experienced  steroid users may also be wondering what this means. So here in simple terms you can read and hopefully understand all about  steroid half life's and what this term means. 

Basically every drug has a half life, steroids included. If for example, you were to  inject 1000mg of  testosterone cypionate once weekly, for 10 weeks, how would you know when you were "off"? Would you be "off" when you had finished your last dose? You would be able to calculate this from the half life of  testosterone cypionate. The half life of  testosterone cypionate is around 12 days. This means that 12 days from your last  shot of 1000mg of  testosterone cypionate (Time to start  PCT? You decide.), your blood levels of  testosterone cypionate will contain 500mg of the  steroid. Another 12 days from then, i.e. 24 days from last dose, your blood levels will contain 250mg of the  steroid. This amount then keeps halving every 12 days. At 48 days (almost 2 months) from your last dose, your blood levels will still contain 67.5mg of  testosterone cypionate. 

Therefore you can clearly see that when you finish your  cycle, even though you are not putting any  steroids into your body, you may think that you are now "off", however you still have, and will still have for some time after your last dose, "active" blood levels of the  steroid. Therefore you can plan what to use, how long for, and how long off your  cycle, based on these half life's.

Below a list of half-life's of the most commonly used  steroids, esters and ancillary compounds.

* Oral  steroids Drug Active half-life* 
Anadrol / Anapolan50 (oxymetholone) 8 to 9 hours 
Anavar (oxandrolone) 9 hours 
Dianabol (methandrostenolone , methandienone) 4.5 to 6 hours 
Winstrol (stanozolol )
(tablets or depot taken orally) 9 hours 

* Depot  steroids Drug Active half-life* 
Deca -durabolin (Nandrolone decanate) 14 days 
Equipoise 14 days 
Finaject (trenbolone acetate) 3 days 
Primobolan (methenolone  enanthate) 10.5 days 
Sustanon or  Omnadren 15 to 18 days 
Testosterone  Cypionate 12 days 
Testosterone  Enanthate 10.5 days 
Testosterone  Propionate 4.5 days 
Testosterone  Suspension 1 day 
Winstrol (stanozolol) 1 day 

* Steroid esters Drug Active half-life* 
Formate 1.5 days 
Acetate 3 days 
Propionate 2 days 
Phenylpropionate 4.5 days 
Butyrate 6 days 
Valerate 7.5 days 
Hexanoate 9 days 
Caproate 9 days 
Isocaproate 9 days 
Heptanoate 10.5 days 
Enanthate 10.5 days 
Octanoate 12 days 
Cypionate 12 days 
Nonanoate 13.5 days 
Decanoate 15 days 
Undecanoate 16.5 days 

* Ancillaries Drug Active half-life* 
Arimidex 3 days 
Clenbuterol 1.5 days 
Clomid 5 days 
Cytadren 6 hours 
T3 10 hours

*WHAT AN ESTER IS, AND HOW IT WORKS*

I'm sure that if you have taken an interest in  anabolic  steroids you have noticed the similarities on the labeling of many drugs. Let's look at  testosterone for example. One can find compounds like  testosterone cypionate, enanthate, propionate, heptylate; caproate, phenylpropionate, isocaproate, decanoate, acetate, the list goes on and on. In all such cases the parent hormone is  testosterone, which had been modified by adding an ester (enanthate, propionate etc.) to its structure. The following question arises: _What is the difference between the various esterified versions of  testosterone in regards to their use in bodybuilding?_

An ester is a chain composed primarily of carbon and hydrogen atoms. This chain is typically attached to the parent  steroid hormone at the 17th carbon position (beta orientation), although some compounds do carry esters at position 3 (for the purposes of this article it is not crucial to understand the exact position of the ester). _Esterification of an injectable  anabolic/androgenic  steroid basically accomplishes one thing, it slows the release of the parent  steroid from the site of  injection._ This happens because the ester will notably lower the water solubility of the  steroid, and increase its lipid (fat) solubility. This will cause the drug to form a deposit in the muscle tissue, from which it will slowly enter into circulation as it is picked up in small quantities by the blood. Generally, the longer the ester chain, the lower the water solubility of the compound, and the longer it will take to for the full dosage to reach general circulation.

Slowing the release of the parent  steroid is a great benefit in  steroid medicine, as free  testosterone (or other  steroid hormones) previously would remain active in the body for a very short period of time (typically hours). This would necessitate an unpleasant daily  injection schedule if one wished to maintain a continuous elevation of  testosterone. By adding an ester, injections can be as infrequent as once per week or longer, instead of having to constantly re-administer the drug to achieve the desried effect. Clearly without the use of an ester, maintaining constant blood levels with an injectable  anabolic/androgen would be much more difficult.

Esterification temporarily deactivates the  steroid molecule. With a chain blocking the 17th beta position, binding to the androgen receptor is not possible (it can exert no activity in the body). In order for the compound to become active the ester must therefore first be removed. This automatically occurs once the compound has filtered into blood circulation, where esterase enzymes quickly cleave off (hydrolyze) the ester chain. This will restore the necessary hydroxyl (OH) group at the 17th beta position, enabling the drug to attach to the appropriate receptor. Now and only now will the  steroid be able to have an effect on skeletal muscle tissue. 

_You can start to see why considering  testosterone cypionate much more potent than  enanthate makes little sense, as your muscles are seeing only free  testosterone no matter what ester was used to deploy it.

_ *ACTIONS OF DIFFERENT ESTERS*

_There are many different esters that are used with  anabolic/androgenic  steroids, but again, they all do basically the same thing. Esters vary only in their ability to reduce a  steroid's water solubility._ An ester like  propionate for example will slow the release of a  steroid for a few days, while the duration will be up to 15 days+/- with a decanoate ester. _Esters have no effect on the tendency for the parent  steroid to convert to  estrogen or DHT (dihydrotestosterone: a more potent metabolite) nor will it effect the overall muscle-building potency of the compound. Any differences in results and side effects that may be noted by bodybuilders who have used various esterified versions of the same base  steroid are just issues of timing._ 

*Testosterone  enanthate causes  estrogen related problems more readily than  Sustanon, simply because with  enanthate  testosterone levels will peak and trough much sooner. Likewise  testosterone suspension is the worst in regards to  gyno and water bloat because blood hormone levels peak so quickly with this drug (propionate included). Instead of waiting weeks for  testosterone levels to rise to their highest point, here we are at most looking at a couple of days. Given an equal blood level of  testosterone, there would be no difference in the rate of aromatization or DHT conversion between different esters. There is simply no mechanism for this to be possible.

_There is however one way that we can say an ester does technically effect potency; it is calculated in the  steroid weight._ The heavier the ester chain, the greater is its percentage of the total weight. In the case of  testosterone enanthate for example, 250mg of esterified  steroid (testosterone  enanthate) is equal to only 180mg of free  testosterone. 70mgs out of each 250mg  injection is the weight of the ester. If we wanted to be really picky, we could consider  enanthate slightly MORE potent than  cypionate (I know this goes against popular thinking) as its ester chain contains one less carbon atom (therefore taking up a slightly smaller percentage of total weight). Propionate would of course come out on top of the three, releasing a measurable (but not significant) amount more  testosterone per  injection than  cypionate or  enanthate.

*IN CONCLUSION*

_While the advent of esters certainly constitutes an invaluable advance in the field of  anabolic steroid medicine, clearly you can see that there is no magic involved here. Esters work in a well-understood and predictable manner, and do not alter the activity of the parent  steroid in any way other than to delay its release. Although the lure surrounding various  steroid products like  testosterone cypionate, Sustanon, Omnadren etc. certainly makes for interesting conversation, realistically it just amounts to misinformation that the athlete would be better off ignoring. Testosterone is  testosterone and anyone who is going to tell you one ester form of this (or any) hormone is much better than another one should do a little more research, and a lot less talking.

_ *ESTER PROFILES*

Sustanon: The "king" of  testosterone blends.
The four different  testosterone esters in this product certainly look appealing to the consumer, there is no denying that. But for the athlete I think it is all just a matter of marketing (Hell, why buy one ester when you can get four?). In clinical situations I can see some strong uses for it. If you were undergoing  testosterone replacement therapy for example, you would probably find  Sustanon a much more comfortable option than  testosterone enanthate. You would need to visit the doctor less frequently for an  injection, and blood levels should be more steadily maintained between treatments. But for the bodybuilder who is  injecting 4 ampules of  Sustanon per week, there is no advantage over other  testosterone products. In fact, the high price tag for  Sustanon usually makes it a very poor buy in the face of cheaper  testosterone enanthate/cypionate. Bodybuilders should probably stop looking at the four ester issue, and stick with totals (Sustanon is just a 250mg  testosterone ampule). If you could get nearly double the milligram amount for the same price with  enanthate, this is the better product to go with hands down. Leave the high priced stuff for the guys who don't know any better.

Acetate: Chemical Structure C2H4O2.
Also referred to as Acetic Acid; Ethylic acid; Vinegar acid; vinegar; Methanecarboxylic acid. Acetate esters delay the release of a  steroid for only a couple of days. Contrary to what you may have read, acetate esters do not increase the tendency for fat removal. Again, there is no known mechanism for it to do so. It is the  steroid and not the ester. This ester is used on oral  primobolan tablets (metenolone acetate), Finaplix (trenbolone acetate) implant pellets, and occasionally  testosterone.

Propionate: Chemical Structure C3H6O2.
Also referred to as Carboxyethane; hydroacrylic acid; Methylacetic acid; Ethylformic acid; Ethanecarboxylic acid; metacetonic acid; pseudoacetic acid; Propionic Acid. Propionate esters will slow the release of a  steroid for several days. To keep blood levels from fluctuating greatly, propionate compounds are usually injected from every day to three times weekly. Testosterone  propionate and  methandriol dipropionate (two separate  propionate esters attached to the parent  steroid  methandriol) are popular items.

Phenylpropionate: Chemical Structure C9H10O2.
Also referred to as Propionic Acid Phenyl Ester. Phenylpropionate will extend the release of active  steroid a few days longer than  propionate. To keep blood levels even, injections are given at least twice weekly. Durabolin is the drug most commonly seen with a phenylpropionate ester (nandrolone phenylpropionate), although it is also used with  testosterone in  Sustanon and  Omnadren.

Isocarpoate: Chemical Structure C6H12O2.
Also referred to as Isocaproic Acid; isohexanoate; 4-methylvaleric acid. Isocaproate begins to near  enanthate in terms of release. The duration is still shorter, with a notable hormone level being sustained for approximately one week. This ester is used with  testosterone in the blended products  Sustanon and  Omnadren.

Caproate: Chemical Structure C6H12O2.
Also referred to as Hexanoic acid; hexanoate; n-Caproic Acid; n-Hexoic acid; butylacetic acid; pentiformic acid; pentylformic acid; n-hexylic acid; 1-pentanecarboxylic acid; hexoic acid; 1-hexanoic acid; Hexylic acid; Caproic acid. This ester is identical to isocarpoate in terms of atom count and weight, but is laid out slightly different (Isocaproate has a split configuration, difficult to explain here but easy to see on paper). Release duration would be very similar to isocaproate (levels sustained for approximately one weak), perhaps coming slightly closer to  enanthate due to its straight chain. Caproate is the slowest releasing ester used in  Omnadren, which is why most athletes notice more water retention with this compound due to blood level saturation.

Enanthate: Chemical Structure C7H14O2.
Also referred to as heptanoic acid; enanthic acid; enanthylic acid; heptylic acid; heptoic acid; Oenanthylic acid; Oenanthic acid. Enanthate is one of the most prominent esters used in  steroid manufacture (most commonly seen with  testosterone but is also used in other compounds like  Primobolan Depot). Enanthate will release a steady (yet fluctuating as all esters are) level of hormone for approximately 10-14 days. Although in medicine  enanthate compounds are often injected on a bi-weekly or monthly basis, athletes will  inject at least weekly to help maintain a uniform blood level.

Cypionate: Chemical Structure C8H14O2.
Also referred to as Cyclopentylpropionic acid, cyclopentylpropionate. Cypionate is a very popular ester in the U.S., although it is scarcely found outside this region. Its release duration is almost identical to  enanthate (10-14 days), and the two are likewise thought to be interchangeable in U.S. medicine. Althletes commonly hold the belief than  cypionate is more powerful than  enanthate, although realistically there is little difference between the two. The  enanthate ester is in fact slightly smaller than  cypionate, and it therefore releases a small (perhaps a few milligrams) amount of  steroid more in comparison.

Decanoate: Chemical Structure C10H20O2.
Also referred to as decanoic acid; capric acid; caprinic acid; decylic acid, Nonanecarboxylic acid. The Decanoate ester is most commonly used with the hormone  nandrolone (as in  Deca-Durabolin) and is found in virtually all corners of the world. Testosterone decanoate is also the longest acting constituent in  Sustanon, greatly extending its release duration. The release time with Decanoate compounds is listed to be as long as one month, although most recently we are finding that levels seem to drop significantly after two weeks. To keep blood levels more uniform, athletes (as they have always known to do) will follow a weekly  injection schedule.

Undecylenate: Chemical Structure C11H20O2.
Also referred to as Undecylenic acid; Hendecenoic acid; Undecenoic acid. This ester is very similar to decanoate, containing only one carbon atom more. Its release duration is likewise very similar (approximately 2-3 weeks), perhaps extending a day or so past that seen with decanoate. Undecylenate seems to be exclusive to the veterinary preparation  Equipoise (boldenone undecylenate), although there is no reason it would not work well in human-use preparations (Equipoise certainly works fine for athletes). Again, weekly  injections are most common.

Undecanoate: Chemical Structure C11H22O2.
Also referred to as Undecanoic Acid; 1-Decanecarboxylic acid; Hendecanoic acid; Undecylic acid. Undecanoate is not a commonly found ester, and only appears to be used in the  nandrolone preparation  Dynabolan, and oral  testosterone undecanoate (Andriol ). Since this ester is chemically very similar to undecylenate (it is only 2 hydrogen atoms larger), it has a similar release duration (approximately 2-3 weeks). Although this ester is used in the oral preparation  Andriol, there is no reason to believe it carries any properties unique of other esters. Andriol in fact works very poorly at delivering  testosterone, bolstering the idea that oral administration is not the idea use of esterified androgens.

Laurate: Chemical structure C12H24O2.
Also referred to as Dodecanoic acid, laurostearic acid, duodecyclic acid, 1-undecanecarboxylic acid, and dodecoic acid. Laurate is the longest releasing ester used in commercial  steroid production, although longer acting esters do exist. Its release duration would be closer to one month than the other esters listed above, although realistically we are probably to expect a notable drop in hormone level after the third week. Laurate is exclusively found in the veterinary  nandrolone preparation  Laurabolin, perhaps seen as slightly advantageous over a decanoate ester due to a less frequent  injection schedule. Again athletes will most commonly  inject this drug weekly, no doubt in part due to its low strength (25mg/ml or 50mg/ml).

Please see the attached spreadsheet image of the active life for a typical  Testosterone Decanoate (500mg each week) and  Deca (400mg each week) Cycle. Each drug has a 15-day+/- half life. As you will notice, it may take up to 90 days after your last  injection for these drugs to become inactive.

[IMG]%5BURL=http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=activelifetestdecacyclell7.jpg%5D%5BI MG%5Dhttp://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8002/activelifetestdecacyclell7.th.jpg%5B/IMG%5D%5B/URL%5D[/IMG]
http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?i...cacyclell7.jpg

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## thunderin

[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/PARKEU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-9.jpg[/IMG]

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## thunderin

"Half-life is not a reference for the total time a drug will be found active in the body. It may take several half-lives before the drug is completely inactive." 

Half-life: The period of time required for the concentration or amount of drug in the body to be reduced to exactly one-half of a given concentration or amount.

Example: The half-life of  anavar is 9 hours+/- (9 hours after oral administration of 50 mg of  anavar, 25mg is still present in the body).

Active life: Refers to the period in which the amount of a drug in the body is enough that it will still produce the desired effects for which it was administered. Or conversely, inhibit natural recovery of normal bodily function. _It is dose dependent._

Example: The active life of 1,000mg of  testosterone decanoate would be more than one month. At day 30 after  injection, 250mg or more of this drug would still be present in the body.

Post Conclusion:

All the evidence points to the use of short estered AAS injectables, versus long estered AAS injectables, as being the fastest way to recover natural  testosterone levels post  cycle. 

Going to be changing my gear soon.

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## thunderin

I was going to refrain from posting dosages but here goes.

Have cut back to 0.5mg of arimidex eod as well as cutting back the dbol to 100mg ed from 150 (couldn't see much difference). Test cyp 625mg every Tue, Thu, Sat and Sun with deca 800mg every Sun. 10iu of slin at 7am followed by another 10iu at 12noon (3 weeks on/off).

Clean diet with 7 meals per day. I love test, deca, dbol...tren . Love my AAS.

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## thunderin

Was playing around with some vardenafil, and let me tell you it's stronger than viagra (15 minute onset, can take on a full stomach, lasts at least 6 hours and most importantly...you could drive a nail with it from being like a piece of iron) Great stuff and fun.

Insulin is a strange drug. Every day it's different. Sometimes makes me sleepy after I pig out and other times not. I can even sleep on it provided I am very full as I take it subq which gives me a more even blood level. No spikes. All in all, I think I prefer 15iu ed to 20.

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## thunderin

Weight 99kg (218lbs)

Both strength and size are coming on quickly. I cannot say enough about what a wonderful mass drug insulin is if used in conjuction with a strong AAS bulking cycle with GH. 20iu's today all subcutaneous. I will never do intramuscular shots of insulin ever again as the hypoglycemia is too hard to control. Insulin can be a wicked double-edged sword if taken intramuscularly with a very rapid onset and peak, and that is for Humulin R. Humalog, I imagine, could be even more difficult to control.

Abs are still visible as are striations in my shoulders and quads. Will up my test dosage somewhat to 500mg ed. 2 mL ed is a lot easier to take than 10+ mL once a week for sure. The deca is still at 800mg once a week (2mL @ 400mg each)

I am eating 7 times per day now and going through a lot of fruit juice. 

My Humapen is so convenient. I can even dose myself in a taxi. If anyone looks at me or says anything, I tell them I am diabetic. They never ask any other questions :Wink/Grin: .

**Warning: This cycle should not be imitated by others**

----------


## ironaddict69

insulin might be the only thing I wont touch. im glad your gettin strong on it tho, makes me think twice.

----------


## thunderin

Pic from today at 99kg (218lbs) and after using melanotan 2. I have lost some definition, but bulking comes with that price.

I still look like crap but getting there.

----------


## thunderin

Here are 2 more relaxed (not flexing) photos from tonight. I used to be really white.

----------


## Titleist

Looking good bro. Very informative log to say the least.

Keep it up. :Thumps Up:

----------


## znak

> I feel for you bro, I really do.
> 
> So, I'm sending you something to think about. And remember, Asia is only a 12 hour flight from the west coast of the US.
> 
> From left to right: Miss Korea, Miss Singapore, Miss Japan, Miss China and Miss Malaysia


Ah, shoot. There ain't even two bites of meat on the them chickens. You should see the wimen we got here at the Wallmart. 

Hell, some are so big, you would have to shoot 'em twice just to bring 'em down.

You can slap their as$ and it will still be jiggling in the morning. 

Now that's a real woman!

----------


## ironaddict69

> Here are 2 more relaxed (not flexing) photos from tonight. I used to be really white.


how tall are you?

----------


## majorpecs

I have got to try some of that melanotan, your tan is sick!

----------


## jerseyboy

> Ah, shoot. There ain't even two bites of meat on the them chickens. You should see the wimen we got here at the Wallmart. 
> 
> Hell, some are so big, you would have to shoot 'em twice just to bring 'em down.
> 
> You can slap their as$ and it will still be jiggling in the morning. 
> 
> Now that's a real woman!


I hear ya. I'm not into Asians at all. I actually like a thicker woman too. Preferrably of the chocolate persuasion. Not fat. Just with curves. I hate abs on a woman. Not feminine at all.

----------


## thunderin

> Ah, shoot. There ain't even two bites of meat on the them chickens. You should see the wimen we got here at the Wallmart. 
> 
> Hell, some are so big, you would have to shoot 'em twice just to bring 'em down.
> 
> You can slap their as$ and it will still be jiggling in the morning. 
> 
> Now that's a real woman!


I read your log about Russia. The Russian girls I have seen are here are lovely...look like top models. Killer bods. For you, Miss Norway below.




> how tall are you?


175cm (5'9") short




> I have got to try some of that melanotan, your tan is sick!


Thanks. Melanotan 2 is amazing stuff.




> I hear ya. I'm not into Asians at all. I actually like a thicker woman too. Preferrably of the chocolate persuasion. Not fat. Just with curves. I hate abs on a woman. Not feminine at all.


Chocolate, cinnamon, olive, amber and alabaster....I love them all.

I think you'll like Miss Jamaica below mon :Wink/Grin: 

And finally, my personal favorite the adorable Miss Mexico.

----------


## finny

> Thanks. Melanotan 2 is amazing stuff.


Do you know how this stuff works on people with fair skin? I have some freckles on my arms. 

I hear some people are getting freckle-like spots with them.

Thanks.

----------


## jerseyboy

> I think you'll like Miss Jamaica below mon


Yeah now that's what I'm talkin about. Looks a little like my wife actually. Cept Miss Jamaica's got some chicken legs.

----------


## thunderin

> Do you know how this stuff works on people with fair skin? I have some freckles on my arms. 
> 
> I hear some people are getting freckle-like spots with them.
> 
> Thanks.


It does give spots at higher doses. You may want to try only 0.5mg eod until you get that tan you want. Then you may be able to maintain it with only 0.5mg every 3rd or 4th day to prevent spots.




> Yeah now that's what I'm talkin about. Looks a little like my wife actually. Cept Miss Jamaica's got some chicken legs.


Just make sure you don't travel alone to Jamaica since you're married. The girls would eat you alive....they had me at "Welcome to Jamaica :Wink/Grin: "

----------


## jerseyboy

> Just make sure you don't travel alone to Jamaica since you're married. The girls would eat you alive....they had me at "Welcome to Jamaica"


That's what my wife says about Trinidad.

----------


## ironaddict69

i was just askin ur height cuz u look so thick at the weight ur at.

----------


## Tbone1975

Thanks for the thread man. Good thread. I'm gonna do some hgh with my next one. I'll do it no matter what. It is interesting though, to see how peoples opinions on it vary. Tai for instance seemed to pretty much say it doesn't compare to aas, while your experiences seem to be pretty damn good to say the least. You look super too btw. I'm trying to decide on the dose I want to use, and yep, it will be in conjunction with juice. I guess I'll know how it reacts with me once I try it. BTW, is my mind playin' tricks on me or do you kinda keep sayin', "I look like crap," everytime you post pics. You look very good period.

----------


## thunderin

> Thanks for the thread man. Good thread. I'm gonna do some hgh with my next one. I'll do it no matter what. It is interesting though, to see how peoples opinions on it vary. Tai for instance seemed to pretty much say it doesn't compare to aas, while your experiences seem to be pretty damn good to say the least. You look super too btw. I'm trying to decide on the dose I want to use, and yep, it will be in conjunction with juice. I guess I'll know how it reacts with me once I try it. BTW, is my mind playin' tricks on me or do you kinda keep sayin', "I look like crap," everytime you post pics. You look very good period.


Everyone is different and I definitely respect others' opinions and experiences. You have to find what works right for you.

Thanks. We all have an ideal we work towards. I simply have not reached mine yet, but I'm working on it. Bodybuilding is like running a marathon not a 100 sprint. It is a life-long endeavor.

A note on melanotan 2: this is my first day at the beach in a tropical country close to the equator, and the tan I got from melanotan 2 allowed me to be out in the direct sun from from 2pm -5pm without burning. No sunblock....amazing stuff. I am darker than the locals :Wink/Grin:  .

Amazingly enough, I found a new local gym fully fitted out with all new Ivanco weights and Hammer Strength machines for $15 USD per month.

----------


## Tbone1975

> I got my gear out and started going through everything. It looked so attractive, shiny and inviting. My yellow bottle of tren started speaking to me saying, "I can help you get big, strong and nasty, try me, try me." Then his brother masty e and daddy test joined in. When cousin tbol chimed in too, I was convinced.
> The rest is history. Amazing how good I feel today
> 
> Thanks bros


That's pretty damn funny, makes me think of that George Thorogood song I Drink Alone.

----------


## Tbone1975

I agree with you. Doesn't it kinda seem like a lot of people, not everyone though LOL, are their own worst critic? Me for instance. I'm no freak of nature by any means, but I never thought I'd find myself benching well over 400 pounds and squating five and a half, and saying to myself, "I need to get bigger LOL." 




> Everyone is different and I definitely respect others' opinions and experiences. You have to find what works right for you.
> 
> Thanks. We all have an ideal we work towards. I simply have not reached mine yet, but I'm working on it. Bodybuilding is like running a marathon not a 100 sprint. It is a life-long endeavor.
> 
> A note on melanotan 2: this is my first day at the beach in a tropical country close to the equator, and the tan I got from melanotan 2 allowed me to be out in the direct sun from from 2pm -5pm without burning. No sunblock....amazing stuff. I am darker than the locals .
> 
> Amazingly enough, I found a new local gym fully fitted out with all new Ivanco weights and Hammer Strength machines for $15 USD per month.

----------


## thunderin

> That's what my wife says about Trinidad.


Damn bro...you weren't jokin. Check out Miss Universe 1998 from Trinidad and Tobago. She's beautiful

----------


## thunderin

> I agree with you. Doesn't it kinda seem like a lot of people, not everyone though LOL, are their own worst critic? Me for instance. I'm no freak of nature by any means, but I never thought I'd find myself benching well over 400 pounds and squating five and a half, and saying to myself, "I need to get bigger LOL."


So right you are. It's really tough to see yourself objectively as you really are in the mirror. You could be a monster, but you might only see a someone much smaller in the mirror.

----------


## jerseyboy

She's from Trinidad.

----------


## thunderin

She's beautiful. You're a lucky man. If I were single, I would ask if she has a sister, but I'm married :Chairshot:

----------


## jerseyboy

Thanks bro. Is that the little Miss Thunderin in your avatar?

----------


## DrSauce99

How do you afford that. I do 1IU a day and I can barely afford it!

----------


## thunderin

> Thanks bro. Is that the little Miss Thunderin in your avatar?


No, just a friend :Smilie: 




> How do you afford that. I do 1IU a day and I can barely afford it!


Simple. I live overseas.

----------


## thunderin

Weight 102kg (224lbs) feeling great but so very full all the time. Yes, I'm a pig :Smilie: 

Have upped the slin to 30iu's ed.

For all those who say my cycle is too heavy check out the legendary **TR's cycle below:

"Cycle experience- HAHAHAH dont even ask

Anadrol 150mg ed run the first 20 weeks of the cycle at 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off.

1-40 test-e 2 grams every week 

1-15 Deca 900mg ew 

1-30 800mg EQ ew

20-40 1 gram tren enanthate a week

20-30 1 gram suspension every week

22-30 120mg var ed

34-40 40mg halo ed

Slin 20ius ed (10 ius in the AM, 10 ius post workout)

Gh 9ius ed throughout the entire cycle."

----------


## Gear

Man that's an expensive a$$ cycle, hope you get the gains you are after.

-Gear

----------


## NotSmall

> Man that's an expensive a$$ cycle, hope you get the gains you are after.
> 
> -Gear


I don't think that's what he's running bro, it's one of BDTR's cycles - where is that lunatic anyway?

----------


## Gear

> I don't think that's what he's running bro, it's one of BDTR's cycles - where is that lunatic anyway?


"_For all those who say my cycle is too heavy check out the legendary **TR's cycle below:_"

I titally missed that line.

As for Mr.B D, he is long gone, he has not been with us for a few years now. I believe he runs his own board now.

-Gear

----------


## thunderin

Weight 103kg

Strength is kicking in hard, and I am feeling great. I backed down on the slin as it is a b..h to control at 30iu. Now at 15iu ed.

Looking very dark from life at the beach here.

----------


## thunderin

Does Melanotan 2 work? You be the judge. Remember these were taken in bright daylight.

Weight 103kg (227lbs)

My wife is not fair skinned either. The last one is a before photo.

----------


## plzr8

wow thunderin...you could be the MTII spokesperson, thats some serious color

when you get some time, would you mind posting your MTII dosage/injection protocol? maintence dosage as well?

lookin good bro!  :Thumps Up:

----------


## ZaneFan

Looking good, and dark like a tanned Mexican too!

----------


## thunderin

> wow thunderin...you could be the MTII spokesperson, thats some serious color
> 
> when you get some time, would you mind posting your MTII dosage/injection protocol? maintence dosage as well?
> 
> lookin good bro!


Thanks. I never use more than 0.5mg per day. This way, I can avoid nausea and spots. Keep your vial of diluted melanotan 2 refrigerated and make sure it contains between 2-3% BA. I use a Novapen or Humapen for my injections. I simply empty out the insulin and replace it with diluted melanotan. No one will ever question an insulin pen.

Load phase:

Day 1-15: 0.5mg ed with 10-20min in a tanning bad or direct sun ed
Most people will be satisfied with their tan at this point. If not, continue loading until you reach your desired color.

Maintenance phase: 

Every 3rd-4th day 0.5mg along with 10min in tanning bed or direct sunlight every 3rd-4th day.

Things to say when people ask you how you got so dark:

1. My grandfather was from Italy or Spain
2. I had been using Michael Jackson's whitening cream, and I got tired of it.
3. I always been this dark. You just didn't notice.
4. I bought stock in George Hamilton's facial bronzer company.
5. In the 70's, I wanted to look like a hippy. In the 80's, I wanted to look like a cowboy. In the 90's, I wanted to look disheveled like I just rolled out of bed. And now, I want to look ethnic to celebrate diversity.
6. I got in a fight with a tanning bed and lost.
7. My Spanish girlfriend is having an effect on me.
8. I guess drinking so much coffee goes straight to my skin.
9. GNC told me I was buying vitamins, but they were really tanning pills. Can I sue?
10. I rub monkey excrement on my face 3 times a day because it's supposed to give me good luck.

----------


## finny

Thunderin looking great...

I was reading some posts on MII, where people dilute the stuff, and use it according to weight. That way, one 10g bottles lasts them for 10 injections or something crazy like that. It seems to be very, very expensive that way as well.

I think a girl posted something as above on this forum.

You seem to be doing it by fractions of a mg, which I understand more and MII will also last much longer - it also makes more sense.

Any ideas?

Edit: at this point I am debating the use of the product as I have some freckles and I've read that frecles darken and stay dark upon discontinuation of the product.

Is anyone using the product past summer? Maintenance through winter at lower doses and less of a tan, just to give you that golden skin tone?

Thanks.

----------


## plzr8

thanks for the good info bro....think i may finally give MTII a try

at that dose, did you encounter any new freckles/moles/etc at any point?

i know it depends on the person's initial skin type, im naturally fairly dark

----------


## thunderin

> thanks for the good info bro....think i may finally give MTII a try
> 
> at that dose, did you encounter any new freckles/moles/etc at any point?
> 
> i know it depends on the person's initial skin type, im naturally fairly dark


1mg ed gave me spots. Be safe and try 0.5mg ed to see how your skin reacts.

----------


## plzr8

> 1mg ed gave me spots. Be safe and try 0.5mg ed to see how your skin reacts.


will be doing just that...will start later this week, keep you posted

thanks bro

----------


## jerseyboy

Damn bro. You must stick out like a sore thumb over there with all the half pint, frosty white, little asian guys over there.

----------


## thunderin

> Damn bro. You must stick out like a sore thumb over there with all the half pint, frosty white, little asian guys over there.


Kind of nice. Surprisingly enough, people are getting taller over here. Lot's of long-legged Chinese beauties. Sucks being married sometimes especially with all the topless Russian girls here. 5'10" or so with butts like shetland ponies :Bbbump:

----------


## thunderin

What they say about something magic happening when you go over 2g of test per week is true. I was in the gym tonight doing shoulders and everything felt so very light.

Standing military press 100kg (222lbs) x 10 x 3
Standing upright rows 100kg (222lbs) x 10 x 3
Dumbell lateral flyes 60lbs x 10 x 3

Just got home and I feel like I am ready to do it all again....that is after I eat of course :Wink/Grin: 

Switching gear next week to the following mass cycle:

300mg test prop ed
100mg tren ace ed
100mg npp ed
100mg eq prop ed
(total of only 3mL AAS inject ed)
80mg dbol ed
10iu gh ed
12iu slin ed
50mcg T4 ed

----------


## ZaneFan

Thunderin, as always thanks for being upfront about exactly what you do.

With your mass cycle are you including any anti-estrogens?

----------


## ironaddict69

thunderin your the man, im thanking you for this too. you go fully into detail with everything, and your totally honest. I love intricate little details about EVERYTHING, because im so damn finicky about what i notice when Im on...well im always "on" but i mean my heavy cycles. Tell me the difference between say, 500 mg test a week and 2000. I know 1500 mg, but how does it FEEL? sex drive, strength etc? I dont get gyno really but ive never gone above 500 mg per week with test. Im wondering which AI you use?

----------


## thunderin

> Thunderin, as always thanks for being upfront about exactly what you do.
> 
> With your mass cycle are you including any anti-estrogens?





> thunderin your the man, im thanking you for this too. you go fully into detail with everything, and your totally honest. I love intricate little details about EVERYTHING, because im so damn finicky about what i notice when Im on...well im always "on" but i mean my heavy cycles. Tell me the difference between say, 500 mg test a week and 2000. I know 1500 mg, but how does it FEEL? sex drive, strength etc? I dont get gyno really but ive never gone above 500 mg per week with test. Im wondering which AI you use?


Thanks. I believe in telling it like it is. I'm not in it for the money nor for selfish reasons. I lift, train and do what I do because I love the sport. Information is power, and I do not believe in keeping the truth about massive gains secret.

I use arimidex as my anti e at 1-2mg ed. Special note - if I totally eliminate all aromatization my sex drive will decrease and I will not experience huge gains in both mass, strength and endurance. For me, some estrogen must be present in my mass cycle to get the results I'm after.

500mg test ew - I feel good but it would only maintain my current level.

2000mg test ew - I would not recommend this dosage for anyone other than myself as I know exactly how my body will react to it. I experience huge gains across the board and my sex drive is off the scale provided I don't go too heavy on the anti e. Deca and tren can also put a damper on your sex drive. I always keep plenty of vardenafil on hand. Works in 15-20 minutes and keeps it hard as steel regardless of the amount of food I eat.

At one point, I thought 500mg ew was a lot. Then, I realized that testosterone is the "King of the Road" for putting on mass. Nothing and I truly mean nothing has ever packed on the kg's of pure muscle that testosterone has for me.

----------


## ZaneFan

Thanks T.

About 20 years ago I went up to 1.2 grams of test ew. If you eat enough calories you will have unbelievable recovery time. I was on a 3 on, 1 off routine and even on my day off I would be in the gym. The downside was pretty bad acne especially on the back.

----------


## customworksking

I too do not like the acne and I am only on 1cc a week of test-e is there anyway to stop the acne? if i ran as much as i see some people I'd never take my shirt off! with GH alone will I get gains or will I need to stack it as said ^^^... with correct cardio/diet etc how long/much will I need to get my body fat down ? I'm 35 185lbs 16% bf like to get below 10%..Great thread BTW! U look super

----------


## ironaddict69

> Thanks. I believe in telling it like it is. I'm not in it for the money nor for selfish reasons. I lift, train and do what I do because I love the sport. Information is power, and I do not believe in keeping the truth about massive gains secret.
> 
> I use arimidex as my anti e at 1-2mg ed. Special note - if I totally eliminate all aromatization my sex drive will decrease and I will not experience huge gains in both mass, strength and endurance. For me, some estrogen must be present in my mass cycle to get the results I'm after.
> 
> 500mg test ew - I feel good but it would only maintain my current level.
> 
> 2000mg test ew - I would not recommend this dosage for anyone other than myself as I know exactly how my body will react to it. I experience huge gains across the board and my sex drive is off the scale provided I don't go too heavy on the anti e. Deca and tren can also put a damper on your sex drive. I always keep plenty of vardenafil on hand. Works in 15-20 minutes and keeps it hard as steel regardless of the amount of food I eat.
> 
> At one point, I thought 500mg ew was a lot. Then, I realized that testosterone is the "King of the Road" for putting on mass. Nothing and I truly mean nothing has ever packed on the kg's of pure muscle that testosterone has for me.



I agree with the estrogen thing if i take nothing, strength and size goes up every week, and sex drive is higher with better estrogen. someday i will try a high amount of test being as the hormone seems rather weak to me, compared to other drugs like tren and deca.

----------


## ZaneFan

> I too do not like the acne and I am only on 1cc a week of test-e is there anyway to stop the acne? if i ran as much as i see some people I'd never take my shirt off! with GH alone will I get gains or will I need to stack it as said ^^^... with correct cardio/diet etc how long/much will I need to get my body fat down ? I'm 35 185lbs 16% bf like to get below 10%..Great thread BTW! U look super


Bodybuilders dont always have the low percentage of body fat they appear to. It's an illusion of sorts because they have so much muscle. The more muscle you have the more body fat you can have and still look terrific. There are other atheletes that have lower body fat especially in track and field. Use the mirror as your guide. 1 gram of test should be done by someone who has done many cycles before and has a near perfect diet. Otherwise you are just wasting your time. Unless you can run 10iu + of gh a day then you should run test as well.

----------


## ironaddict69

> Thanks. I believe in telling it like it is. I'm not in it for the money nor for selfish reasons. I lift, train and do what I do because I love the sport. Information is power, and I do not believe in keeping the truth about massive gains secret.
> 
> I use arimidex as my anti e at 1-2mg ed. Special note - if I totally eliminate all aromatization my sex drive will decrease and I will not experience huge gains in both mass, strength and endurance. For me, some estrogen must be present in my mass cycle to get the results I'm after.
> 
> 500mg test ew - I feel good but it would only maintain my current level.
> 
> 2000mg test ew - I would not recommend this dosage for anyone other than myself as I know exactly how my body will react to it. I experience huge gains across the board and my sex drive is off the scale provided I don't go too heavy on the anti e. Deca and tren can also put a damper on your sex drive. I always keep plenty of vardenafil on hand. Works in 15-20 minutes and keeps it hard as steel regardless of the amount of food I eat.
> 
> At one point, I thought 500mg ew was a lot. Then, I realized that testosterone is the "King of the Road" for putting on mass. Nothing and I truly mean nothing has ever packed on the kg's of pure muscle that testosterone has for me.



I agree with the estrogen thing if i take nothing, strength and size goes up every week, and sex drive is higher with better estrogen. someday i will try a high amount of test being as the hormone seems rather weak to me, compared to other drugs like tren and deca.

----------


## thunderin

Chest day yesterday:

60kg (132lbs) 10 x 1
100kg (220lbs) 10 x 1
140kg (308lbs) 8 x 1
170kg (374lbs) 6 x 3 
Immediately followed by a drop set from hell.

Hammer strength incline press

140kg (308lbs) x 10 x 3

Cable crossovers both incline and decline.

Strange thing, the weight feels so much lighter than before :Wink/Grin:

----------


## plzr8

moving some good weight bro...keep up the good work & keep us posted

----------


## customworksking

> Bodybuilders dont always have the low percentage of body fat they appear to. It's an illusion of sorts because they have so much muscle. The more muscle you have the more body fat you can have and still look terrific. There are other atheletes that have lower body fat especially in track and field. Use the mirror as your guide. 1 gram of test should be done by someone who has done many cycles before and has a near perfect diet. Otherwise you are just wasting your time. Unless you can run 10iu + of gh a day then you should run test as well.


what do u mean 1gram done by someone who has done many cycles ? what did I do wrong ? this is my 1st cycle in 12yrs ago ..so, I been workingout for 18+months clean ...is Gh the better way for lean mass .

----------


## Titleist

> what do u mean 1gram done by someone who has done many cycles ? what did I do wrong ? this is my 1st cycle in 12yrs ago ..so, I been workingout for 18+months clean ...is Gh the better way for lean mass .


Look bro, you and Zane need to start your own thread. Thunderin has a very interesting thread going that myself and many others enjoy reading. No one appreciates you coming in here and whoring it up, it's just disrespectful. If you have a question, start a thread! :0icon Pissedoff:

----------


## customworksking

I tell U what I have never met so many rude people in my life then here, guess its all the extra test or something ..the way I see the thread is to ask someone who know's that's why I even posted.. .. sorry if I didn't run 10 cycles in my life and know it all and have it down to a science like some of u do ..your right why bother even posting...this foram need's threads for everthing..ie: test-e,deca ,hgh etc then I/we will not F it up for U because I simply don't know.

----------


## NotSmall

> I tell U what I have never met so many rude people in my life then here, guess its all the extra test or something ..the way I see the thread is to ask someone who know's that's why I even posted.. .. sorry if I didn't run 10 cycles in my life and know it all and have it down to a science like some of u do ..your right why bother even posting...this foram need's threads for everthing..ie: test-e,deca,hgh etc then I/we will not F it up for U because I simply don't know.


LMAO

Stop snivelling and start your own thread.

----------


## Titleist

> I tell U what I have never met so many rude people in my life then here,.


Haha, ever been out into the real world? If we're the rudest people you've met, consider yourself lucky.



> guess its all the extra test or something ...


Yeah man, we're all roid ragin' around here.



> the way I see the thread is to ask someone who know's that's why I even posted..


If you were asking thunderin I wouldn't have said anything, but you were trying to carry on a conversation with Zanefan on someone else's thread, that is "rude".



> .. sorry if I didn't run 10 cycles in my life and know it all and have it down to a science like some of u do ..


You don't have to run 10 cycles to have it "down to a science", you just have to research and start threads asking intelligent questions.



> your right why bother even posting...this foram need's threads for everthing..ie: test-e,deca,hgh etc then I/we will not F it up for U because I simply don't know.


Actually, nearly every topic has been covered on the board. All you have to do is use the handy search function located at the top of the page.

----------


## thunderin

Thanks for stepping in. 

Yesterday was back day, and I was shocked.

Bent-over barbell rows (pretty strict)
60kg (132lbs) x 10 x 1
100kg (220lbs) x 10 x 1
140kg (308lbs) x 10 x 1
180kg (396lbs) x 10 x 2 **Lifetime best**
Drop set

Lat pull down (pretty strict)
120kg x 10 x 3
Drop set

Hammer Strength upper back
light weight - 100kg x exhaustion x 3

I got home and was still consumed with energy. Took me almost 2 hours to calm down.

Lovin' it.

----------


## Titleist

Sure thing bro.

Congrats on the lifetime best, I'm sure you're feeling like Superman right now. Fuck bro, nearly 400lbs for 10 reps! :EEK!:  

That's some serious weight. 




> I got home and was still consumed with energy. Took me almost 2 hours to calm down.


That's a great feeling. 

Keep it up. :Thumps Up:

----------


## lightwaytbaby

great thread!

----------


## plzr8

no better feel than setting new personal records....keep it up!

----------


## Sage

Man, that is a very fine thread. I would not have made my way here if not getting ready to run some mad HGH after my AAS endeavors. 
Great overall physical progress as well bro.

----------


## ironaddict69

damn thunderin you are one strong mofo! Im doin real well for my young age but io can only HOPE ill be doing what u do someday. how many cycles have u done man?

----------


## thunderin

> damn thunderin you are one strong mofo! Im doin real well for my young age but io can only HOPE ill be doing what u do someday. how many cycles have u done man?


Thanks. I honestly have no idea how many cycles I have run. First cycle at 16 (way the hell too young, and that was 26 years ago.

----------


## thunderin

Just switched over to all short esters.

*Note - my goal is a completely painless  inject suitable for ed  shots, not a high mg/mL content

Just made the following:

Test prop 200mg/mL @ 50mL
2% BA
25% BB
10g test prop
rest 100% EO

NPP 200mg/mL @ 40mL
2% BA
25% BB
8g NPP
rest 100% EO

Tren ace 200mg/mL @ 40mL
2% BA
25% BB
8g  tren ace
rest 100% EO

.22 micron 30mm diameter sterile  syringe filters used with  filters replaced every 20mL. Why? EO can degrade PVDF  filters, and thus, diminish sterility.

Why use EO? The solutions have a very low viscosity and should be painless compared to traditional  oils like grape seed. I could easily  inject this with a slin  pin.

The solutions are amazingly clear as well. See photos below.

First  inject: 
300mg test prop 1.5mL
100mg  tren ace 0.5mL (cough, cough)
100mg NPP 0.5mL

The solution went like as if it were water. 
T+2 hours no pain :AaGreen22: 
Will keep my fingers crossed

Cheap rubber stopper on the NPP. Got 2 small pieces broken off inside. WTH

----------


## plzr8

beyond jealous!!

----------


## thunderin

T+26
Still painless. Took the same amount again today.

Will try my eq prop tomorrow.

Feeling great.

----------


## plzr8

> Will try my eq prop tomorrow.


uh oh, good luck!

----------


## thunderin

Since quad shots are my favorites, I had to dilute to 80mg/mL with sterile oil. Yesterday was my first quad injects.

200mg test prop
100mg tren ace
100mg npp
total: 2mL AAS @ 200mg/mL + 3mL sterile oil = 5mL total, 2.5mL in each quad.

*I am a real wimp for post-injection pain. This is absolutely painless, goes in so easy and is very suitable for ed use.

----------


## thunderin

Leg day: I have taken to training my legs every 3rd workout in order to bring them up to the level of my upper body.

Example: 
Day 1 chest
Day 2 back
Day 3 legs
Day 4 arms
Day 5 shoulders
Day 6 legs
Day 7 & 8 rest

Tonight was one of the best leg workouts I can remember.

Professional 2-tier (2 different levels to hold more plates) leg press. Each set followed by calf presses on the same machine. New gym has only lbs on the weights, no more kg. Must be imports.

225lbs x 15
405lbs x 12
585lbs x 10
765lbs x 10
945lbs x 10
1125lbs x 10
1125lbs x 10 Drop set from hell
945lbs x 10 Drop set from hell
765lbs x 10 Drop set from hell
585lbs x 10 Drop set from hell
405lbs x 12 Drop set from hell
Crawl away and almost vomit :Barf:  :Barf: 

Drop set from hell means no rest between sets all to complete exhaustion.

Leg extensions
Leg curls 
Calf raises

My PWO therapy: 1 bucket of KFC extra crispy chicken with 3 pieces of corn and 3 mashed potatoes, shower and sleep.

----------


## flash31

Thunderin, you mentioned shooting your brew with a slin pin. What size slin pin do you use? Are you having trouble with shooting NPP and tren with slin pins??

----------


## thunderin

Just a short note to sat thanks for the time here on this board and to all the members who have made my stay here a good one.

Good luck, be smart and thanks.

----------


## plzr8

> Just a short note to sat thanks for the time here on this board and to all the members who have made my stay here a good one.
> 
> Good luck, be smart and thanks.


sad to see you go bro...many of us have enjoyed your detailed log & input

hope everything is OK...all the best

-plzr8

----------


## Titleist

> sad to see you go bro...many of us have enjoyed your detailed log & input
> 
> hope everything is OK...all the best
> 
> -plzr8


I agree 100%. 

This is the best log I have ever read, bar none.

Much respect brotha.

-Titleist

----------


## finny

Great log, sorry to see you go - hope everything is ok...

Hmmm, all the pics are gone. I was going to look over some pics today, but noticed that they're all gone...

----------


## thunderin

I'm back online. Though I may not write as much, I'll still be around.

----------


## Titleist

> I'm back online. Though I may not write as much, I'll still be around.


Hell yeah! Please post as much as you can. Your log was by far the most informative I ever followed.

Good to see you back. :Thumps Up:

----------


## thunderin

This month of hiatus that I took caused me to do some sincere self-examination of my lifestyle, diet, training techniques and AAS/GH use. 

The result:

My AAS/GH dosage and schedule were all in line, but my diet and training techniques were not.

Training: 

My strength is extremely high which can easily lead to a serious and/or debilitating injury. I had been doing the same lifts for more than 10 years, and I had plateaued.

Solution: 

I have heard the gone but not forgotten voice of Vince Gironda. "You're a bodybuilder not a weightlifter." 

I have reduced the weight of all my movements by 50% more or less, and I do each and every rep extremely slow, concentrating on complete muscle contraction. Each set to failure and only 20 seconds rest between each set.

Diet: 

Again from Vince, "It's not how much you each but what your body can digest."

I need 6000-7500 calories and 300-400 grams of protein per day.

Solution: 

Novalog ultra-fast acting insulin (subq onset 10 min - peak 90 min - duration 4 hours) 3 x per day x 15 iu = 45 iu ed, 4 weeks on/3 weeks off. (See the attachment of my new disposable Novalog insulin pen, so convenient and useful)

36 medium eggs ed (protein: 216g, fat: 170g, calories 2520)
1L whole milk ed (protein: 32g, fat: 32g, calories 586)
2 cans condensed sweetened milk ed (protein: 62g, fat: 66g, calories 2640)

I forgot to mention my other food also:
2L of 5% grape juice drink (protein: 0g, fat: 0g, calories 500)
0.5kg of lean beef (protein: 105g, fat: 25g, calories 685)
1 large bowl of rice (protein: 9g, fat: 1g, calories 484)

Total nutrition
protein: 424g
fat: 294g
calories: 7415

AAS/GH cycle:

300mg test prop ed (2100mg ew)
80mg tren ace ed (560mg ew)
80mg NPP ed (560mg ew)
GH 10iu ed

Result:



My weight and the size and quality of my muscles are exploding like I never thought possible.

Weight 105kg (231lbs)

----------


## thunderin

If this doesn't give your workout a boost, nothing will.

Brand new Kid Rock - So Hott (Stream it below)

http://www.musicremedy.com/k/Kid_Roc...ott-16700.html

You got a body like the devil and you smell like sex
.....................

----------


## thunderin

> Hell yeah! Please post as much as you can. Your log was by far the most informative I ever followed.
> 
> Good to see you back.


Thanks. I'm glad to be back.

----------


## finny

Glad to see you back.

That's a very unorthodox diet. Will be interesting to see how you progress on it long term.

Keep up the good work.

----------


## Big

When will you post some more pics?

----------


## thunderin

Give me a couple of weeks pls. Feel like a stuffed pig most of the time now.

----------


## BJJ ANDY

Sorry Thunderin but i would love to see a stuffed pig who's on 2,1 g's of test ew and with a strength of a kodiak bear.

 :7up:

----------


## ironaddict69

yeah thunderin, you might think u look bloated or whatever, but wed still love to see it. you have an amazing physique, id love to see the literal "off season" big bulk if you will.

----------


## thunderin

Here I am the stuffed pig with huge stomach at 103kg (226lbs) tonight. This is after eating 3 double cheeseburgers and a large Coke.

----------


## thunderin

How do I spell relief? Blood donation

After giving 800mL, my skin color turned from bright red to a normal hue. My dizziness and throbbing head gave way to a wonderful sense of not feeling so bloated by all that extra blood....aaaaahhhhhhhh. 

Got to do this every 6 weeks.

----------


## goin on 4T

I have been reading this thread for quite a while now and have gotten a tremendous amount of knowledge from you Thunderin! Thank you! 

One thing I have to say is good thing they clean the blood before they transfer it to someone else!!! No offense but damn. That would be like getting Superman's blood. LOL

----------


## ironaddict69

> Here I am the stuffed pig with huge stomach at 103kg (226lbs) tonight. This is after eating 3 double cheeseburgers and a large Coke.


wow i expected something much worse. lol, dude u look good. solid base, its amazing, your about 7 lbsd heavier than me, but lill look as big as you when im 240. good base man!

----------


## NotSmall

> Again from Vince, "It's not how much you each but what your body can digest."
> 
> I need 6000-7500 calories and 300-400 grams of protein per day.


Have you looked into digestive enzymes - they can make a terrific difference to how much of the food you consume you actually utilise.

----------


## taiboxa

u know.. u got a giant pixil stuck to ur right tri.. might wanna have that thing looked into.

----------


## ironaddict69

> u know.. u got a giant pixil stuck to ur right tri.. might wanna have that thing looked into.


ahahaha. were gunna be the only ones that get and laugh at that.

----------


## thunderin

> I have been reading this thread for quite a while now and have gotten a tremendous amount of knowledge from you Thunderin! Thank you! 
> 
> One thing I have to say is good thing they clean the blood before they transfer it to someone else!!! No offense but damn. That would be like getting Superman's blood. LOL


Thanks. Whoever gets my blood will recover quickly I hope.




> Have you looked into digestive enzymes - they can make a terrific difference to how much of the food you consume you actually utilise.


Thanks for the heads up. I will definitely check them out.




> u know.. u got a giant pixil stuck to ur right tri.. might wanna have that thing looked into.


 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  Every time I post a pic it always comes up. Not sure why?

----------


## thunderin

Something's working right. My weight is up to 104kg, and my recovery time is so fast now. I had to cut back on the calories as I just simply felt sickly full all the time, not to mention the "you look pregnant jokes from my wife."

I've found that if I go over 20iu's ed of slin, say 30-45iu's, I feel so damn tired. Guess all my blood is near my stomach helping to transport nutrients?

I'm finally beginning to understand my muscles and feel them contract to the point of strong pain when I slowly and strictly do all my movements in the gym. 

Want to know what else? For the first time in a long time, my shoulders, elbows and all my joints for that matter feel wonderful. I know my muscles are stronger than my ligaments and tendons. Using less weight for very slow (12-15 second count reps) and strict reps is allowing my body to heal.

Striving for the next level.

Train safe, train smart, train for a lifetime.

----------


## thunderin

Double post

----------


## taiboxa

as for the digestive enzymes, you could just incorporate some high quantites of yogurt which in turn increases the amount of good bacteria in the digestive system to aid in digestion.. works very very well.

----------


## ginkobulloba

I take digestive enzymes with at least 3 or 4 meals a day, and normally I take one pro-biotic pill per day (same as yogurt) and it has definitely improved my digestion and ability to break down proteins, etc. You get more out of the food you eat.

----------


## NotSmall

> as for the digestive enzymes, you could just incorporate some high quantites of yogurt which in turn increases the amount of good bacteria in the digestive system to aid in digestion.. works very very well.


To the best of my understanding yoghurt can work well as a cheap probiotic and help keep a healthy gut but it won't do the same job as digestive enzymes - two different things from what I can gather. Mallet has written some fantastic articles on digestive health on ukiron, I have started following less than half of the things he recomends and I feel so much better and less bloated for it.

----------


## taiboxa

> To the best of my understanding yoghurt can work well as a cheap probiotic and help keep a healthy gut but it won't do the same job as digestive enzymes - two different things from what I can gather. Mallet has written some fantastic articles on digestive health on ukiron, I have started following less than half of the things he recomends and I feel so much better and less bloated for it.


see i have read write ups on the otc basic digestive enzymes you get from health food stores.. and the only time they are of any benefit is say when your on anibiotics and you killing off the good bacteria of your digestive track.. so beats me.

----------


## ginkobulloba

No, that's not true dude, they really help in normal digestion. Especially if you're a bodybuilder eating shit tons of protein, etc.

----------


## NotSmall

> see i have read write ups on the otc basic digestive enzymes you get from health food stores.. and the only time they are of any benefit is say when your on anibiotics and you killing off the good bacteria of your digestive track.. so beats me.


I could be wrong mate but I think that is more applicable to probiotics - they are what is supposed to "restock" your healthy bacteria that antibiotics destroy.
From what I can gather digestive enzymes are essential in the proper digestion of our food, they are supposed to be partly produced in our bodies and partly from the food we eat but because of the way our food is produced our modern day diets are almost completely devoid of certain enzymes which leads to all sorts of problems - lactose intolerance, gluten intolerance, various allergies etc - so it is beneficial to supplement especially when we are expecting our bodies to absorb considerably more than the average human.

----------


## finny

Yes, digestive enzymes are the ones you need. It's good to buy the 'full spectrum' that cover all food groups. Especially usefull on a bulk, when eating more food.

I buy my protein with proteaze digestive enzyme - for digestion of protein.

As said, probiotics are used to restore 'balance' in your gut. I drink homemade kefir for that.

----------


## taiboxa

> I could be wrong mate but I think that is more applicable to probiotics - they are what is supposed to "restock" your healthy bacteria that antibiotics destroy.
> From what I can gather digestive enzymes are essential in the proper digestion of our food, they are supposed to be partly produced in our bodies and partly from the food we eat but because of the way our food is produced our modern day diets are almost completely devoid of certain enzymes which leads to all sorts of problems - lactose intolerance, gluten intolerance, various allergies etc - so it is beneficial to supplement especially when we are expecting our bodies to absorb considerably more than the average human.


aye i think ur on to something.

----------


## NotSmall

> Yes, digestive enzymes are the ones you need. It's good to buy the 'full spectrum' that cover all food groups. Especially usefull on a bulk, when eating more food.
> 
> I buy my protein with proteaze digestive enzyme - for digestion of protein.
> 
> As said, probiotics are used to restore 'balance' in your gut. I drink homemade kefir for that.


I use Udo's digestive enzymes, they're full spectrum ones like you say, I also use Udo's probiotics and "Beyond Greens" cos I don't really eat any veg - Dr Udo makes a packet off me!

----------


## NotSmall

> aye i think ur on to something.


Try 'em kidda - one with each meal and you feel way less bloated!  :Wink/Grin:  





Thunderin - sorry for the hijack - as you were!

----------


## thunderin

> Try 'em kidda - one with each meal and you feel way less bloated!  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thunderin - sorry for the hijack - as you were!


No worries. I enjoy the discussion. Thanks

----------


## thunderin

It's been a long 5 months since my last post.

I took a break in my gh cycle but began again 1 month ago. Dieted down to 91kg as in the photos taken 4 weeks ago below.

My Humapen and Novapen are Godsends. I can take them with me most anywhere and they make GH and Lr3 IGF-1 injects a breeze.

Current cycle:

300mg testosterone propionate eod
100mg trenbolone acetate eod
100mg nandrolone phenylpropionate eod
100mg drostanolone propionate eod

10iu's HGH ed (5iu's am and 5iu's afternoon pre-workout)
Lr3 IGF-1 ed (100mcg am and 100mcg afternoon pre-workout, spot injects into muscles I will train that day, 3 months on/1 month off )
Novalog insulin (European version of Humalog) 10iu's pre-workout, 4 weeks on/ 3 weeks off)
T4 50mcg ed

Vitamins (Centrum 2 ed, E 500iu's ed, C 500mg ed)

L-glutamine 5 g pre-workout and 5 g post-workout
creatine 5 g pre-workout and 5 g post-workout
EAS protein 75g pre-workout and 75g post-workout

Meals: high protein, high carbs, low fat

Olive oil: 2tbsp ed

I started the HGH, Lr3 IGF-1 & insulin combo 1 week ago not expecting much, but I am amazed. The strength, pumps, vascularity and intensity I am achieving are better than I ever hoped for. Yeah, I know these dosages are not common, but they're giving me exactly what I want.

Sleeping great too.

Photos below: 91kg, age over 40- I know I have a long way to go and still look like crap, but I'm giving it my best. They were taken 6 months apart, last summer and a month ago.

**Please remember: Every day thousands of brave men and women put their lives on the line in South Korea to keep that bastard in Pyongyang at bay, just as they have done for over 50 years.

With all that is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan, don't forget those in South Korea and keep them in your prayers.*

*When we do cheers here we say "72 seconds". That is the time it takes incoming North Korean missiles to start hitting Seoul. A sobering thought....*

----------


## thunderin

My AAS dosages were about half of what they are now when I was dieting.

----------


## KZRSOIZE

Looking forward to reading your log......looking great...

----------


## PT

you look good bro. have you lived in korea long?

----------


## thunderin

> you look good bro. have you lived in korea long?


Thanks. Quite some time. When I first arrived here I was getting 1200 WON per US$. No luck getting that now.

This place has its ups and downs, but overall, I like it here.

----------


## thunderin

I reconstitute my Lr3 IGF-1 with an NaCl solution 100mcg/mL, and I rconstitute my HGH with sterile water 10iu/mL.

I only reconstitute enough for 3 days at a time so no need for any preservatives or BA.

By using my Humapen and Novapen cartridges, I do not lose anything when reconstituting or injecting. Moreover, the gauge of the replaceable needle tips is only 31 gauge by 1cm in length. Believe me, you cannot even feel it. And, I get exact doses with the dial-in injection volume button on these.

See the photos below.

----------


## jerseyboy

Welcome back buddy.

----------


## thunderin

Thanks, glad to be back.

----------


## thunderin

Well, I have been on the same gear for some months now. So, it's time to change up. No use in plateauing, and I'm not one who believes in using the same gear year round. I could have doubled up on the stack I was on, but that would have put me at 700mg of tren ace per week = no sleep :Frown: 

Have increased my calories substantially, and I am actually taking a day or 2 off from the gym each week. It feels odd not to be in the gym every day, and I find myself feeling guilty about it. But, I know I should rest.

Weight 95kg

Testosterone enanthate 400mg eod
Deca 200mg eod
Eq 200mg eod
Dbol 50mg ed

HGH 10iu's ed (6 on/1 off)
Lr3 IGF-1 160mcg ed

Will not run arimidex until I feel I need it as I know from experience that an absence of estrogen will hinder my bulking gains.

Vitamins, whey protein, glutamine and creatine as usual.

Amazing stuff Lr3 IGF-1, I am not able to increase my bodyfat percentage on it. Not sure if it is recommendable for bulking or not. Will find out.

----------


## Titleist

Great to see you picked back up on your log; it's always good reading.

You've definitely trimmed up. Your look's much more eye-pleasing now. I also see that you've lowered your AAS doses significantly, which I think is smart. 

Good luck man.

----------


## jerseyboy

Is your IGF a brand name or chinese generic?

----------


## thunderin

> Great to see you picked back up on your log; it's always good reading.
> 
> You've definitely trimmed up. Your look's much more eye-pleasing now. I also see that you've lowered your AAS doses significantly, which I think is smart. 
> 
> Good luck man.


Thanks. I appreciate the encouragement.




> Is your IGF a brand name or chinese generic?


Everything I take is made in China except for my EAS whey protein, creatine and glutamine. Whoever imports EAS is making a killing.

----------


## jerseyboy

I've run the chinese before but I was using so many compounds at once it's hard to say if it was effective.

----------


## thunderin

Same here. All I know is that the combination of everything is working. My vascularity is coming out like never before, and my strength is going through the roof. I pig out and cannot seem to get full either. Weight keeps going up also. All this with no increase in bf%.

One side effect for sure: it increases the size of your testicles :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): . No joke.

----------


## McJuicer

Any new news on results =)

----------


## ZaneFan

> Same here. All I know is that the combination of everything is working. My vascularity is coming out like never before, and my strength is going through the roof. I pig out and cannot seem to get full either. Weight keeps going up also. All this with no increase in bf%.
> 
> One side effect for sure: it increases the size of your testicles. No joke.


Testicles? That would be nice. I havent seen mine in a while.

----------


## thunderin

My strength is increasing amazingly fast, and my vascularity makes my arms and legs look as if there are baby snakes all over them. My stomach is a wee bit stretched out from the volume of food going in, but bf% has not increased at all.

I think I have finally stumbled onto something here. The test prop, masterone prop and tren ace are still in my system, and they are interacting with the Dbol I started last week. It is a very synergistic bulking combination when eating like I am. No way the test e, deca and EQ have hit me yet. I am contemplating stopping the test e, deca and EQ and continuing with the tren, masterone, test combo. Opinions? 

Bodyweight: 97kg

Arm day: All movements are done in a very strict manner

Standing bicep EZ curls 125lbs x 8 x 3
Lying tricep headcrushers (nosebreakers) 145lbs x 8 x 3

Tricep press down 150lbs x 6 x 3
Bicep Hammer curls 70lbs x 6 x 3

Standing tricep single dumbell overhead press behind neck 130lbs x 14 x 1, 12 x 1, 10 x 1
Spider curls 40lbs x 8 x 3

Felt a bit nauseous from the intensity of my workout so I went to talk to some of the pretty girls on the treadmills. Guess what, 5 minutes later I was feeling good again :7up:  Was it the smell of estrogen or just their pretty faces, intelligent eyes and naturally hard bodies with not a bit of cellulite to be found anywhere? Whatever it was it worked.

These girls can have babies, and 6 months after the baby is born you cannot tell they were ever pregnant, tight stomach and tight ass. Gotta love it here. The only ones who get large are the ones eating Western food.

----------


## McJuicer

I'm so jealous of you right now  :LOL:

----------


## KZRSOIZE

The pen your using seems to be very convenient, i am tempted are they readily available and could they be used with blue top generics?

----------


## thunderin

> The pen your using seems to be very convenient, i am tempted are they readily available and could they be used with blue top generics?


Yes, of course.

----------


## thunderin

*Unless your intake of carbs is almost perfect, the following can possibly kill you.


The combination my diet, exercise, sleep, HGH, Humalog and Lr3 IGF-1 pre-workout along with my current AAS cycle of Test e (had to switch back..my glutes were getting too knotty) tren ace, masterone prop and dianabol is transforming my body and taking me to another level. 

The masterone eliminates the need for an anti e. The tren and dbol are giving me so much extra strength and energy. And I am not sure what is keeping my bf% so low and making me vascular like I never imagined before. Dear God, I am consuming 4000+ calories per day and drinking large bottles of Minute Maid Orange juice drink all day long.

I make my pre, during and post workout shake before I take my 5iu's of HGH, 75mcg Lr3 IGF-1 and 15iu's of Humalog . I use 150g of EAS whey protein, 10g of Twin Labs glutamine and 10g of creatine plus 175 grams of glucose in 1 liter of 2% milk and add a cup of whole Australian oats. I blend it for 1 full minute, and then I drink half. I take my injects immediately afterwards. I always consume my carbs right before slin injects never after.

I drink the rest throughout the rest of my workout, and then 15 minutes after my workout, I eat about 50 grams of protein mashed potatoes and corn.

Did I mention the amazing pumps you get with this?

Loving it!

----------


## thunderin

Weight: 99kg (218lbs) 
Height: almost 175cm (5'9")

Today is day 10 without cigarettes. I feel I finally have it beat, but still taking it one day at a time. Also down to 1 1/2 cups of coffee per day. With all this tren , I simply don't need any more. Already hyper as is.

Legs are starting to look a bit freaky with veins jumping out everywhere. I have to differ on opinion with those who say that Lr3 IGF-1 doesn't cause site growth. I started take all my GH, Lr3 IGF-1 and insulin intra-muscular into my quads and they're really growing fast. There were simply too many bruise spots on my abs and this way I don't bruise.

The tren is not giving me too many hard sides. I learned to keep my anger in check a long time ago, but the vivid dreams and the fact that I wake up to eat twice during the middle of the night let me know it's there along with that dark orange pee :Smilie: 



Leg day:

Leg press (full movement) followed by calf toe press: 

100kg (220lbs) x 12 x 1
180kg (396lbs) x 10 x 1
260kg (572lbs) x 8 x 1
340kg (748lbs) x 7 x 1
420kg (924lbs) x 6 x 3
300kg (660lbs) x 8 x 1
180kg (396lbs) x 8 x 1

Limp away towards to leg extension and leg curl. Done in tandem, one set on one machine right after one set on the other.

120 x 12 x 3, drop set last set to 60

equal weight on both

120 x 12 x 3, drop set last set to 60

crawl to calf machine

80kg x 8 x 3, drop set last set to 60kg

Right as I got off of the lying leg curl machine, a girl in her mid twenties comes up and asks me if I will show her how to use the leg kick back machine for glutes. Being the nice guy I am, how could I not help? Getting her into position with one hand on the front of her thigh and the other on her glute with her making moaning noises and then smiling at me.....well it made for a nice ending to a long day. Yes, I am married, and that was all that happened. God bless 'em.

----------


## thunderin

Weight: 100kg

I think I forgot to mention that I did not continue the deca and eq. There was just no reason to switch up with the results I am seeing. 

Does my belly stick out a bit because I am eating like a pig (very little fat) and so full all the time? Yes, but my abs are so visible they bulge through my workout shirt :Bbbump: 

Holding some water but no moon face. 

You know how people always say that something magic happens when you go over 2g of test per week? Well, I didn't need that much for it to happen.

The magic started with the following bulker coming right off a cutter.

Test e 400mg eod
Tren ace 100mg ed
Masterone prop 100mg ed
Dbol 75mg ed
GH 10iu ed (5iu 8am/5iu 4pm preworkout)
Lr3 IGF-1 "I lowered this one" (50mcg 8am/50mcg 4pm preworkout)
Novalog (insulin aspart) (15iu pre-workout) 
T4 100mcg ed

And of course, all of this would be a waste without an impeccable diet and supplementation.

I thought my body was "tricked out" and that I had reached my limit. How wrong I was :LOL: .

----------


## thunderin

It has come to my attention that most people on this board live in North America and are subject to a daily life quite different from that which many of us have been privileged to have for most if not all of our lives.

This post is dedicated to all of those who will read it and decide move to a place where AAS and GH use is perfectly legal for personal use.

Why risk your personal freedom, reputation, career and possibly even your life?

Many countries around the world are quite nice and free from laws minimizing your basic freedoms.

Sitting on your arse and moaning about your situation or circumstances will do nothing to change it. 

Get up, get moving, assess any and all possible options for a life overseas.

Or stay where you are and continue risking yourself. 

In most Asian countries:

1. You can walk home at night without worrying about violence or being harrassed.

2. As a foreigner, you will enjoy the benefits of reverse discrimination. Be nice to the Westerner mentality.

3. This is applicable for both males and females reading this with regards to boyfriends/girlfriends and spouses. You won't have to worry about being number 35 for them, more likely 1st to 3rd. And, they won't leave you or divorce you unless your are a complete failure as a spouse. 

4. Your spouse won't turn into a poster child for a weight loss clinic after birth/marriage, nor will they have "search" to find themselves.

5. You will never have to watch or be around the criminal nor law enforcement element Western society experiences daily. Gang bangers, car jackers, policial violence and drug addiction are rarely if ever seen here.

6. It is not cool to wear your pants down to your arse with a chain and boots or look like some pale gothic freak here. Unkempt hair and nappy clothes are frowned upon.

7. Teenagers respect authority as adults respect older people.

8. Teenagers are more interested in good grades and online video games than drinking and drugs. 

9. This society does not have time nor patience for being politically correct nor nice-guy second chances. You either are a winner or a loser here.

10. If you are respectful, humble, outgoing and genuinely nice, they'll be the best mates you could ever have.

My 2 cents for the day.

----------


## mrtosa

nice....its sounds great im half asian but never live there i love to go there some day...

----------


## mrtosa

have you ever use PGCL for site growing or fatloss?

----------


## thunderin

> nice....its sounds great im half asian but never live there i love to go there some day...


My friend, you have half a world and half of your own culture to discover. I have so many Asian-European and Asian-American friends who have experienced a profound personal growth by coming. I cannot tell you how much I recommend you discover your roots. 6,000 years of recorded history are waiting for you.




> have you ever use PGCL for site growing or fatloss?


I have not. You'll have to ask Tai about that.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=298908

----------


## mrtosa

i will be in china by the olimpics...wish me luck with the ladys..

----------


## thunderin

> i will be in china by the olimpics...wish me luck with the ladys..


Just smile a lot, be friendly, talk to them and try to learn a little conversational Mandarin Chinese (standard dialect of Beijing). You'll be popular for sure. 

Please try not to break hearts. They can fall in love easily and many are quite innocent. They see you, and they see a husband.

----------


## mrtosa

thanks for the advice...

----------


## thunderin

Here is my pre-workout (1/2) and during (1/2) my workout protein/carb shake secret. Half is drunk before and half during. Taken along with GH, Lr3 IGF-1 and Novolog. I try to make sure I drink it all before my workout ends. So very many carbs and not an extra gram of fat added to my physique.

Large, visible veins all over my quads, lower abs, shoulders and arms now.

*6 scoops EAS whey protein = 720 calories (carbs 18g, fat 12g, protein 138g)

*175grams fructose = 644 calories (carbs 175g, fat 0g, protein 0g)

*1 cup oats, dry = 607 calories (carbs 103.4g, fat 10.8g, protein 26.3g)

*1 liter whole milk = 619 calories (carbs 46.6g, fat 33.5g, protein 33.2g)

Total: 2590 calories (carbs 343g, fat 56.3g, protein 197.5g) 

I place all ingredients in the food processor and blend well. 

I am in preparation to start running this protocol twice daily. "The Next level."

----------


## jAcKeD!!!!

mmmm i bet that tastes good lol.

you posting any pics anytime soon?
reading your thread and seeing what gains you made are impressive, keep it up

----------


## thunderin

Here it is:

A comparison of less than 2 months difference.

The first photos at 91kg (left-hand side 200lbs.) and the second pics at 101kg (right-hand side 222lbs.). Holding a lot more water, but bf% has not increased.

Bulking with the above and Test e, masterone prop and tren ace along with 4,000 calories per day to achieve these results.

Have doubled up to twice daily Novolog injects (15iu x 2 ed) and increased calories to 6,000+. 

Maybe the combination of GH, Lr3 IGF-1 and Novolog insulin is working? Could be.....

----------


## mrtosa

you look great man!!

----------


## juice555

Thanks for the pics. Im the same height, and your pre-hgh weight (200lbs). I wanted to see what i might look like +20lbs. At least your pics give me some idea. I'm ready to start GH for the first time and hoping i come out as good as you have.
I've been to China a few times now and maybe one day plan to live there. I never had an easy time finding a decent gym. I dont think huge muscles are at the top of most Chinese priorities. Any1 have the same problem finding a good gym?

----------


## thunderin

> I never had an easy time finding a decent gym. I dont think huge muscles are at the top of most Chinese priorities. Any1 have the same problem finding a good gym?


Please check out the Korean Bodybuilding Federation at
http://bodybuilding.sports.or.kr/

Please check out the Japanese Bodybuilding Federation at
http://www.jbbf.jp/

Please check out the Chinese Bodybuilding Association at 
http://www.cbba.net.cn/

Bodybuilding and all athletics in general are highly respected in China, Korea and Japan.

If you need to find a good gym in any of these countries, well you simply didn't put much effort into it. Most all large cities have top-of-the-line gyms with Hammer Strength equipment, not to mention California Fitness, Total Fitness and Fitness First chains.

Big muscles are much sought after in Asia. Those Olympic gold medals ......even more so. It makes a big difference when a government takes a vested interest in its athletes bringing home the gold.

See the pics of Mr. Korea below (Lee, Du Hee)

----------


## thunderin

> you look great man!!


Thanks but I have a lot of weaknesses to improve on yet.

----------


## thunderin

All my efforts over the past 1 1/2 years (not to mention the 27 years since I first walked into a gym) since I started this log are coming to fruition. Apologies for not having kept it up to date until now.

I am 6 weeks out from my competition and weigh 94kg (206lbs) with height 175cm (5'9"). I know I still look like crap, but I plan to come in at about 88-89kg. These were taken in a rush and the posing and light leave a lot to be desired.

Any and all comments and suggestions welcome. Please see photos below.

Thanks

----------


## mrtosa

you look great!!

----------


## oc pitbull

hahah music godsmack badasss. i like that detail.

----------


## OH REALLY

good work

----------


## thunderin

> you look great!!


Thanks, much appreciated.




> hahah music godsmack badasss. i like that detail.


Helps with agression.




> good work


Again, much appreciated.

Thunderin's diet consists of at least 300g of protein ed from whey isolate, tuna in water and the once a day rib meat beef plate. Yes, It has some fat on it.

Carbs come from rice, fresh uncooked salad vegetables and low calorie sports drinks.

He has dropped from a pudgy, bulking slob of 106kg (232lbs) to where he is now at 94kg.

3 days out from his competition, he will begin 25mg of hydrochlorothiazide twice ed along with spironolactone 25mg once daily along with a potassium supplement to cut excess water while avoiding cramping during poses. Drinking enough water is a must.

His cycle has changed as he heads for his goal, and again *we do not recommend my cycle be considered by anyone.* It is posted for informational purposes only.

Orals:

Vitamins (multiple B complex - 1 ed, C - 500mg ed, E - 500iu's ed)
Ephedrine - 25mg, aspirin - 200mg, expresso (3 x ed)
T4 - 250mcg ed
Huperzine A - 300mcg ed (100mcg x 3 x ed)
Pyridostigmine - 60mg (2 x ed)
Arimidex - 2mg eod

Injectables: subcutaneous

rHGH - 16iu's ed (4iu's x 4 x ed)
CJC 1295 - 2mg ed

Injectables: intra-muscular

Testosterone enanthate - 450mg eod
Drostanolone (Masterone) enanthate - 200mg eod
Trenbolone enanthate - 200mg eod

*He had been using the short-estered versions before but he simply could not take the injection pain and coughing any longer.

****Thunderin is a fictional character, and I am simply his alter-ego. We do not condone nor promote the use of any illegal substances anywhere. This and all Thunderin threads are strictly for entertainment purposes only and should not be followed nor recommended by anyone.****

----------


## OH REALLY

do you think the hep a is working

----------


## thunderin

> do you think the hep a is working


I can't really say with any certainty with 16iu's of rHGH on top of the CJC 1295, but I like to think it is.*




***Thunderin is a fictional character, and I am simply his alter-ego. We do not condone nor promote the use of any illegal substances anywhere. This and all Thunderin threads are strictly for entertainment purposes only and should not be followed nor recommended by anyone.****

----------


## OH REALLY

i take it also but i also use ghrp6 with it i was told that the hep a does nothing to help but like i said i still use it

----------


## OH REALLY

> Thanks, much appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> Helps with agression.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, much appreciated.
> ...


cjc at 2mg every day that build up must be highsince it last in you body for 7 days that means that by the 7 day you would have 17.8 mg in you

----------


## stallion_1

> cjc at 2mg every day that build up must be highsince it last in you body for 7 days that means that by the 7 day you would have 3.8 mg in you


OH REALLY  :Chairshot:

----------


## DEVLDOG

nice thread,you have a pic to post up??

----------


## customworksking

> All my efforts over the past 1 1/2 years (not to mention the 27 years since I first walked into a gym) since I started this log are coming to fruition. Apologies for not having kept it up to date until now.
> 
> I am 6 weeks out from my competition and weigh 94kg (206lbs) with height 175cm (5'9"). I know I still look like crap, but I plan to come in at about 88-89kg. These were taken in a rush and the posing and light leave a lot to be desired.
> 
> Any and all comments and suggestions welcome. Please see photos below.
> 
> Thanks


U look great!!!!! I just got 1000ius of gh gonna run tren ,test C and gh soon..

----------


## OH REALLY

> OH REALLY


Stop chasing me. :Help Me:

----------


## stallion_1

> Stop chasing me.


oh really  :Chairshot:

----------


## OH REALLY

> oh really


 :0happyhump:  Thats how you make me feel

----------


## stallion_1

> Thats how you make me feel


lol yea ur in the bottom

oh really  :Chairshot:

----------


## OH REALLY

:Help Me: just dont cum in me :Poop2:

----------


## stallion_1

oh i will

do u swallow or spit???


oh really huh  :Chairshot:

----------


## OH REALLY

:AaSport19:

----------


## stallion_1

> 


oh so u spit

thats a good girl

oh really  :Chairshot:

----------


## thunderin

Gentlemen, can we please keep this on topic? 

Thanks

----------


## thunderin

> i take it also but i also use ghrp6 with it i was told that the hep a does nothing to help but like i said i still use it


It may certainly be doing some good, and it is also being run in conjunction with pyridostigmine.




> cjc at 2mg every day that build up must be highsince it last in you body for 7 days that means that by the 7 day you would have 3.8 mg in you


Probably more than that, but something is definitely working right.




> nice thread,you have a pic to post up??


I believe 5 photos were posted on 8 September and can be found on page 8 of this very thread.




> U look great!!!!! I just got 1000ius of gh gonna run tren,test C and gh soon..


Again, I cannot reiterate strongly enough that this cycle is not recommended for others.

****Thunderin is a fictional character, and I am simply his alter-ego. We do not condone nor promote the use of any illegal substances anywhere. This and all Thunderin threads are strictly for entertainment purposes only and should not be followed nor recommended by anyone.****

----------


## OH REALLY

> Gentlemen, can we please keep this on topic? 
> 
> Thanks


Sorry he follows me

----------


## stallion_1

> Sorry he follows me


oh really  :Chairshot: 


sorry buddy

----------


## customworksking

> It may certainly be doing some good, and it is also being run in conjunction with pyridostigmine.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably more than that, but something is definitely working right.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe 5 photos were posted on 8 September and can be found on page 8 of this very thread.
> ...


yeah I am not going to run 10iu 4 to 6 max ..see how my body reacts. :7up:

----------


## thunderin

Have reduced my daily dosage of CJC 1295 to 1mg. I am really starting not to like this stuff. The sides that last for an hour after injection are a major drawback.

Makes me appreciate my rHGH even more.

On a side note, it appears that melanotan II has permanently changed the color of my skin. It took 7 months for my tan to go away last year. It has been a month and a half since I ran 15mg in 2 weeks with strong exposure to the sun and almost no change. Permanent tan line and I am definitely not complaining.

The high dosage of rHGH combined with proper diet and other things I am running has melted fat off and left me with a vascular stomach :Smilie: 

Love it!

----------


## Gear

Permenant tan, good stuff  :Thumps Up: 

-Gear

----------


## OH REALLY

> Have reduced my daily dosage of CJC 1295 to 1mg. I am really starting not to like this stuff. The sides that last for an hour after injection are a major drawback.
> 
> Makes me appreciate my rHGH even more.
> 
> On a side note, it appears that melanotan II has permanently changed the color of my skin. It took 7 months for my tan to go away last year. It has been a month and a half since I ran 15mg in 2 weeks with strong exposure to the sun and almost no change. Permanent tan line and I am definitely not complaining.
> 
> The high dosage of rHGH combined with proper diet and other things I am running has melted fat off and left me with a vascular stomach
> 
> Love it!


what kind of sides were you grtting from cjc1295?

----------


## thunderin

> what kind of sides were you grtting from cjc1295?


I was referring only to the sides I experience almost immediately post-injection such as hot flashes, significant rise in bp, feel my heart beating in my head, burn at injection site for 5 minutes (no redness or swelling afterwards), feeling like my head is going to pop off my shoulders for an hour, etc.

As far as sides from an increase in GH production, I really cannot say since I am already taking a boatload of GH.

----------


## OH REALLY

> I was referring only to the sides I experience almost immediately post-injection such as hot flashes, significant rise in bp, feel my heart beating in my head, burn at injection site for 5 minutes (no redness or swelling afterwards), feeling like my head is going to pop off my shoulders for an hour, etc.
> 
> As far as sides from an increase in GH production, I really cannot say since I am already taking a boatload of GH.


Well at least i know I'm taking 1400mcgs a week and i feel the same way

----------


## thunderin

I have been working out so hard these days with an hour of cardio on top of my more than normal intense lifting. 

Thank God for ECA to keep my energy levels up. Bodyfat is below 8% and dropping quickly as I prepare for my show. 91kg today and sweating like a pig all day long. When I gave blood yesterday, I felt instant relief as the tren and test continue up up my blood count even though I am dieting hard.

Vascularity is coming in well and I can even see clearly defined veins on my stomach and upper arms. 

What really gets me is that commoners think that simply by taking AAS and GH people instantly look like pro bodybuilders. Little do they know the world of self-discipline, arduous diets and agonizingly intense training. They're ignorantly innocent eating their fatty pork, cheeseburgers and oily doughnuts. 

I am holding only about 1kg extra of water weight as the tren, masterone, arimidex and coffee keep me very dry. 

I have upped my rHGH doses considerably, and I am no longer taking CJC 1295. I will use it up later, but I just simply prefer GH. Still taking huperzine A and pyridostigmine as I dose my last GH injections at night.

My protein intake is in excess of 400-500+g daily, and I have completely cut out rice. My only carbs come from fresh tomatoes, onions, green peppers, milk, yoghurt and whey isolate protein powder. 

Posing practice is as tiring as working out, but alas, it must be done. My competition weight will be around 86kg after dropping down to 87.5-88kg 4 days before the show when I begin to use aldactazide along with a potassium supplement. Striations are coming out in almost every muscle group. I have also upped my T4 dosage a bit.

Thanks to everyone on this website who has helped me come this far.

Quote of the day by Bruce Jenner: "I learned that the only way you are going to get anywhere in life is to work hard at it. Whether you're a musician, a writer, an athlete or a businessman, there is no getting around it. If you do, you'll win - if you don't, you won't."

Video of the day Frank Zane tribute: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTCcP...eature=related

He may be only 88kg in the video, but in my opinion, he represents the aesthetic ideal of the perfect look for a bodybuilder. He can even look great in a suit and tie at that weight.

----------


## OH REALLY

cant wait to see pics

----------


## OH REALLY

whats the benefit of taking hepA with out cjc1295

----------


## thunderin

> whats the benefit of taking hepA with out cjc1295


I take huperzine A and pyridostigmine because I am running very high doses of rHGH throughout the day and even before I go to bed at night. I take in hope that my own body will not completely shut down its endogenous GH production.

----------


## thunderin

My diet is going well. Please see below.

This was done on an InBody 220.

Body Composition Analysis

Total Body Water: 62.4kg
Protein: 17.1kg
Mineral: 5.27kg
Body Fat Mass: 4.6kg
Total: 89.4kg

Muscle-Fat Analysis

Weight: 89.4kg
Skeletal Muscle Mass: 49.5kg
Body Fat Mass: 4.6kg

BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate): 2202Kcal

Fitness Score: 108 points

Obesity Diagnosis

BMI (Body Mass Index): 29.2kg/m2
PBF (Percent Body Fat): 5.1%
WHR (Waist Hip Ratio): 0.93

----------


## takincareofbusiness

Wow!

----------


## OH REALLY

> My diet is going well. Please see below.
> 
> This was done on an InBody 220.
> 
> Body Composition Analysis
> 
> Total Body Water: 62.4kg
> Protein: 17.1kg
> Mineral: 5.27kg
> ...


Is that your wife?

----------


## thunderin

Es una amiga con derechos :Smilie: 

Let's say she's just a good friend :Smilie:

----------


## OH REALLY

i wish i had a good friend like that......they say you should marry your best friend

----------


## thunderin

> Wow!


Thanks, that's 2 years of prep only for this show.




> i wish i had a good friend like that......they say you should marry your best friend


Not to be politically incorrect as there are a few exceptions, but so many are all lovely and sweet until you marry them. You know, like "Want some candy? I'm beautiful. Here it is take it, please take it. Marry me and I'll make your life more miserable then you ever imagined. Now don't forget, you can't leave me because I have your beautiful child." :Chairshot:

----------


## thunderin

It is really an extremely grueling and hard-fought battle of mind over body, when even your mind wants to give in at times. But, you cannot, you mustn't ever give in. You must keep your eyes, heart, mind and spirit set on the one goal....coming in at your best condition possible for that one day. 

Most on this board cannot appreciate nor understand as I am only beginning to fathom what pro-bodybuilders go through to be their best. It's one of the most rewarding and difficult undertakings I have ever done. 

I have lowered my rHGH dosage back to 10iu's ed. I was actually at 30iu's for the past few weeks. Have dropped the long chain esters for the shorter ones as of a week ago. Say what you want about Hooker as there is no admiration on my part for his behaviour, he had a point about esters, as my personal experience has proven it true.

Another point as one of our respected members PT puts it: All the AAS and other performance enhancing substances in the world are useless without proper exercise and diet

My current cycle:

All kinds of vitamins, hell I take handfulls.
Test prop 350mg ed
Tren ace 150mg ed
Drost prop 150mg ed
GH 10iu's ed (2 x 5iu)
T4 400mcg ed
ECA stack (real ephedrine, expresso's or Vietnamese style iced coffee and aspirin) 3 x ed
Arimidex 0.5mg ed
Winstrol 50mg ed

Cardio: 45min x 2 ed
Lifting as usual but less weight as strength in not high

Sleep 6-7 hours

Meals 300-400g of protein ed (lean beef, tuna in water and whey isolate, 1/2 cup of steamed rice x 2 ed, all the kimchi, seaweed paper, other low calorie Korean side dishes, tomatoes, lettuce, sweet and hot peppers and onions that I want. I have also been craving "pidan" which are Chinese fermented black eggs (don't ask me why because I don't know. Lean smoked ham with mustard is another late night favorite with milk.

How to get to sleep after all that? As I hate prescription sleeping pills, I have a shot or 2 of Absolute with some orange juice on ice. 

I tried my hydrochlorothiazide and spironolactone pills on Sunday night and Monday morning, and all I can say is that they are amazing. However, you had better be taking potassium when using hydrochlorothiazide, or you will have painful cramps even when sleeping. I will start them again 2 days before my show.

I will not cut off water completely as many do before my show. I will limit it. As I sweat profusely, and I simply am afraid to cut it completely and look flat. I will also be using the sauna 10 minutes in and 3 minutes out x 4 starting this Saturday and right up until the show.

I will be adding anadrol 5 days before the show at 100mg ed, and I have decided against insulin since my friend went flat after insulin use before his recent show.

What really takes the piss out of me is that my sex-drive is very high, but the wife's is as usual low. Trying hard to be faithful, but it seems there is temptation everywhere. Whether it's Latin America or Northern Asia, that soft pearly white skin with straight perm jet black hair and almond eyes drives me insane. Help :Banghead: 

Less than 2 weeks to go.

----------


## OH REALLY

i want more pics of you and your friend

----------


## thunderin

> i want more pics of you and your friend


That would definitely get me banned.

----------


## rhino1

yea that all looks great but i would consider changing the music selection...i mean godsmack is ok...but get serious and get something heavy...

ideas
avenged sevenfold
cradle of fith
killswitch engage
pantera
gwar
slayer
HIM
Metallica
bury your dead
etc...

----------


## thunderin

> yea that all looks great but i would consider changing the music selection...i mean godsmack is ok...but get serious and get something heavy...
> 
> ideas
> avenged sevenfold
> cradle of fith
> killswitch engage
> pantera
> gwar
> slayer
> ...


I tried your playlist and darn near found myself close to cardiac arrest. Speedmetal is a bit too much for me now, but thanks anyway.

----------


## OH REALLY

why is she always on her knees

----------


## thunderin

Ok fine. Standing up and on my knees.

----------


## OH REALLY

Can you overnight her to me i will pay for shipping :2jk:

----------


## thunderin

Well, the results of all my hardwork have finally paid off. I was named the 3rd place champion in the over 75kg weight class division in a major bodybuilding and fitness competition in eastern Asia this weekend. I wanted a higher placing but there are more competitions next year.

The hardest part was not the dieting and grueling cardio and exercise leading up to the show but the absence of water mixed with diuretics is hell. Moreover, I shitloaded the night before and morning of the show and almost puked from eating Snickers bars and drinking honey. I detest sweet foods.

1 hour before the pre-judging, I thought I was going to pass out, but I sneaked in an expresso and perservered. I then had to wait another 2 hours to see if I had been selected for the evening show. I got a bit choked up when I saw my name on the list, thank God. 

I was really feeling ill right before the the final round, but I was able to get through it. Comfortingly, almost every male competitor was smoking cigarrettes.

At the final, I was called out almost immediately for comparisons with 2 others who took 1st and 2nd place, and my friends and wife were cheering me on. I went head to head with a very large guy from Hong Kong in the posedown but it all was in good fun, and I made many new friends.

After barely making it home, I stopped at Papa Johns and got their large thin crust Papa Johns special with an order of spaghetti and a 2L bottle of Coke which I finished off by 3am.

I will spend the next 2 days recovering and then it's back to the gym. Some of the best growth I have ever seen comes by bulking with GH, test, slin, EQ and Drol with excellent nutrition and sleep after a hard diet. I make sure to take plenty of vitamin E to minimize stretch marks and improve elasticity of the skin.

***

One of the best parts was having all of the fair complected, long-legged, narrow hipped, raven haired and strikingly beautiful female fitness competitors putting their asses near my face, turning around to see if I was looking and smiling at me and then asking me how they looked  :BbAily:  right before asking me out for dinner. Of course, they were all beautiful from head to toe. They only thing they had to shave was under their arms :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): . Even the Singaporean announcer, a lovely 22yr old girl, was very, very friendly. After they reach 26 here, many get very aggressive in seeking out a compatible long-term mate. 


I must say that I do not even miss a bit those large framed and corpulent females from North America and Europe. 

Needless to say, the wife was there and I was on my best behaviour.

Below is a photo 3 hours before the pre-judging and right before the diuretics started working. It was amazing at how dry lasix made me as the day went on and it works very fast. Warning... it is dangerous stuff and not to be played with. 

I want to express my appreciation and gratitude to all of the many people on this board who have helped me. Thank you

Thunderin

****Thunderin is a fictional character, and I am simply his alter-ego. We do not condone nor promote the use of any illegal substances anywhere. This and all Thunderin threads are strictly for entertainment purposes only and should not be followed nor recommended by anyone.****

----------


## lovbyts

Congratulations and nice thread on the HGH and CJC-1295

My theory was the CJC-1295 would make it so you dont need as much HGH but I could be wrong.

I'm only using 1 iu HGH 5x week and 2.5 iu CJC-1295 2x week.

----------


## OH REALLY

> Congratulations and nice thread on the HGH and CJC-1295
> 
> My theory was the CJC-1295 would make it so you dont need as much HGH but I could be wrong.
> 
> I'm only using 1 iu HGH 5x week and 2.5 iu CJC-1295 2x week.


2.5 of cjc is that ius or mcg

----------


## OH REALLY

great work thunderin

----------


## lovbyts

> 2.5 of cjc is that ius or mcg


OK I'm NOT trying to flame you but the last few days I have read Dozens of you post and you tend to ask the exact same question (copy/paste) over and over and over and you dont fully read a post that you have a question on.

PLEASE re read my post. Your question is VERY clearly answered and if I post it again you will just over look it again.  :Chairshot:

----------


## thunderin

> Congratulations and nice thread on the HGH and CJC-1295
> 
> My theory was the CJC-1295 would make it so you dont need as much HGH but I could be wrong.
> 
> I'm only using 1 iu HGH 5x week and 2.5 iu CJC-1295 2x week.


It all depends on your budget. I personally prefer rHGH because the post injection sides from CJC-1295 are not to my liking. However, I do feel it really works.




> 2.5 of cjc is that ius or mcg


CJC-1295 dosage is measured only in micrograms. The iu volume would depend on how much NaCl solution/BAC water you use to reconstitute it.




> great work thunderin


 Thanks, planning to come in much heavier next year at the same bf%.

I was only 86kg in that photo after dieting down from a very bulked up and fat 106kg. This time I plan on going up to 115kg-120kg and coming in at a 4.5% bf 95kg next autumn.

----------


## OH REALLY

Bump

----------


## OH REALLY

> OK I'm NOT trying to flame you but the last few days I have read Dozens of you post and you tend to ask the exact same question (copy/paste) over and over and over and you dont fully read a post that you have a question on.
> 
> PLEASE re read my post. Your question is VERY clearly answered and if I post it again you will just over look it again.


Bro you are the one that wrote 2.5ius a day of cjc when cjc is measured in mcg not ius
.....even thunderin corected you. and just so you know i new that. i have been on it for 2 months now
"CJC-1295 dosage is measured only in micrograms. The iu volume would depend on how much NaCl solution/BAC water you use to reconstitute it."(By thunderin) 
 :Chairshot:

----------


## lovbyts

> Bro you are the one that wrote 2.5ius a day of cjc when cjc is measured in mcg not ius
> .....even thunderin corected you. and just so you know i new that. i have been on it for 2 months now
> "CJC-1295 dosage is measured only in micrograms. The iu volume would depend on how much NaCl solution/BAC water you use to reconstitute it."(By thunderin)


Once again Good job with yet ANOTHER double post/asking the same questing 2x in a row and yo asked me if it was IU or mcg and my post clearly states mcg even though your copy and paste of thunderin's question is technically corect, it is dependent on my mix. :Bbiwin:

----------


## OH REALLY

> Once again Good job with yet ANOTHER double post/asking the same questing X in a row and yo asked me if it was IU or mcg and my post clearly states mcg even though your copy and paste of thunderin's question is technically corect, it is dependent on my mix.


Bro again i dont feel like battling with you but the question i had was did you mean to wright mcg or was what you wroth (IU) correct to me it looked like a typeO and you should read my last post again if you think it was a Question to make things easier for you i will make sure i end all my questions with a question mark this is what it will look like???so we have no confusion this is a question mark ???(??????)???? look for it before you answer anything I'm just trying to help if i new you id hug you

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## thunderin

Finally, feeling good again, and I am back training for a couple of shows next year.

Have to take my offseason weight up to at least 115kg-120kg in order to come in at a ripped 95-100kg.

I will post some pics of my show later this week.

I will refrain from posting my cycle dosages from now on since I simply realize it is a very competitive world.

After I post my pics I will be ending this log, but I want to say it has been a nice year and a half.

Thanks to everyone who has commented and read.

Thunderin

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## OH REALLY

where are those pics

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## OH REALLY

> where are those pics


bump

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## Ironman5151

looked like he took them all down..that sucks...would have been a great thread if the pics were up..good information ayways...

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## OH REALLY

Maybe he got a virus...

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## Swiftlet

Hi Thunderin,
I'm from Malaysia, I very interested with your cycle detail.
I also wishing to see how you body look like, did you ever joined and contest before?
Maybe you can email me directly if you dont mind  :Big Grin: 
Your help are greatly appreciated, thank you...

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## Darksid3

Have all the pictures been removed or am I not allowed to see them yet or something?

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## thunderin

Yes, all the photos were removed. Simply too much going on to take any risks at all. Apologies.

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## thunderin

***Warning, I most strongly advise against not doing the following!**** I have been transitioning back into an off season bulking cycle and my weight is back up to 97kg from my contest weight of 86kg with the target of 115kg in my sights. I had been running anadrol for 3 weeks amongst other things when I went to donate blood. Damn, 17-AA had my ALT level at 51 which is over the 40 limit for donation. Had mild headaches, red face and my BP was already 143/88. What to do? After much foreboding, I unpacked an 18 gauge syringe, got the 350mL container from the kitchen along with a sterile glove, rubber tubing and alcohol. Everything as sterile as possible. Ok, by now I am thinking shite, this is going to sting, but I am not willing to risk high BP....the silent killer. Anyway, I slid the needle into the whiteboard marker sized vein right below my bicep slowly. Wow, it was like a geyser. And no pain at all. I simply let it drain into the cup until I had 350mL out and then drained another 150mL. You wouldn't believe how much better I feel, and I had just donated 500mL 30 days ago. Yes, maybe I stepped over the line this time but, I simply improvised the best I could and erred on the side of practicality.

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## ironaddict69

You're a ****ing man...

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## Zino

> You're a ****ing man...


Agreed

Altough I wish I could have seen those progress pics...

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## oc pitbull

what a beast

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## KZRSOIZE

Just curious, why didnt you go ahead and donate some more blood. I understand your alt levels were high, but wouldnt the blood bank test and say nope alt levels way to high...and dumped your blood in the haz waste bucket. Are you taking anything for the hbp, dude your nuts, 18gauged yourself in the arm....ouch....well i hope your feeling better....

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## thunderin

> Just curious, why didnt you go ahead and donate some more blood. I understand your alt levels were high, but wouldnt the blood bank test and say nope alt levels way to high...and dumped your blood in the haz waste bucket. Are you taking anything for the hbp, dude your nuts, 18gauged yourself in the arm....ouch....well i hope your feeling better....


 Sorry for the late reply. They would absolutely not take my blood. They test it with a finger prick. I do not take high blood pressure meds, I simply drain 550mL of my blood every 2-3 weeks(phlebotomy is the proper name). Honestly, it doesn't hurt. It can make a mess though.

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## thunderin

Good to be back. I took a break in GH for 3 months and had switched back to CJC-1295. But, I hate the rush that it gives you...red face, pulsing head, accelerated heart rate, etc. So, I am back on 10iu's of GH ed. My wife wants another baby, and so I started my PCT a week ago by coming off of test prop. This is the first break in AAS usage I have had in a very long time. Since I am having issues with the formatting on this website, I have attached my PCT. Though different than other PCT's, it is backed up by documented medical research (see the education or PCT forum for my post). Thanks

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## thunderin

I am into my 4th week of the above PCT after coming off of test prop on the tail end of an almost continuous 3 years of heavy AAS use. I used test prop for the last 3 months of my cycle so as there would be no down time waiting for long esters to clear my system. My wife wants another baby, and I will oblige. My bodyweight has dropped to 90kg at the end of my cycle but it has increased to 98kg since i started my PCT. I suppose that the the twice daily injects of 10iu's of GH, 20iu's of Novalog and 150mcg of T4 are working  :Smilie:  BTW, I inject 5iu's GH and 10iu's slin twice daily at the same time. Eating like a horse. I go for my 2nd blood test next week, and I am already getting strong erections at night, looking at porn or if the road is too bumpy. The day before yesterday was the first time in a long time that I did not use viagra as was able to perform well. For me, that means a lot

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## KZRSOIZE

welcome back thunderin, im always looking forward to your valuable posts....good luck with the family addition

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## PT

> I am into my 4th week of the above PCT after coming off of test prop on the tail end of an almost continuous 3 years of heavy AAS use. I used test prop for the last 3 months of my cycle so as there would be no down time waiting for long esters to clear my system. My wife wants another baby, and I will oblige. My bodyweight has dropped to 90kg at the end of my cycle but it has increased to 98kg since i started my PCT. I suppose that the the twice daily injects of 10iu's of GH, 20iu's of Novalog and 150mcg of T4 are working  BTW, I inject 5iu's GH and 10iu's slin twice daily at the same time. Eating like a horse. I go for my 2nd blood test next week, and I am already getting strong erections at night, looking at porn or if the road is too bumpy. The day before yesterday was the first time in a long time that I did not use viagra as was able to perform well. For me, that means a lot


great info bro. good luck on making the baby and please keep us informed as to your results and bloodwork

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## thunderin

2 1/2 months after I started my PCT my free test levels are back up to 500ng/dL (499.63). They were as low as 81ng/dL a couple 3 weeks after I started PCT. This is great news considering I was on AAS almost non-stop since January 2004 with only a total of 6 months off during that time, and my cycle was, at times, a very heavy one. Normal range is 350 - 890 for my age group over 40. My weight is still 99kg (218lbs) Yes, I did not lose any weight during PCT at all. In fact, I gained almost 9kg (19.8lbs). I used the above prescribed PCT along with 10iu's of GH ed with 10-20iu's of novalog ed and 150mcg of T4 ed. I really believe that when I start my next AAS cycle later this year, my weight will go over 115kg (253lbs). Getting off that stagnant cycle will take me to the next level. I wonder what the highest weight of no more than 12% bodyfat is that I can maintain without AAS and using only GH and slin? Bottom line is there is no one PCT fits all. I would not be where I am today if I had followed normal PCT protocol. PCT should be tailored for each individuals needs depending on length of cycle, AAS dosage, type of AAS ester, cycling history and age.

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## thunderin

Funny thing, Since I inject subq into my abs, there has been no increase of fat deposits in the front. However, the sides of my waist have increased a bit. A couple of thins for sure. I really love being on cycle, and I think about when I will start again every single day. I also quit smoking 2 1/2 months ago, and I think about that every day too. Really sucks but no more cigarettes and just keep staring at my gear until after my wife is pregnant.

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## Flex-Appeal

Kids are great, I wish you luck

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## bigbody1!!

Intresting. I was always told to never take generic HGH as the equipment to create the chemical is so expensive that if they got the money to make it they c an give it a brand name.

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## thunderin

I have used both generic and pharmaceutical grade GH extensively, but I am using pharmaceutical grade now. It is stronger than generic.

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## thunderin

My wife decided to wait until next year for us to have a baby and to finish her master's degree. I am perfectly fine with that as well. It has been 3 months since I finished my last cycle, and believe it or not, my blood work was near normal. So, I decided to celebrate with my good friends anadrol , test prop and tren ace. I am starting this cycle at 100kg, and with the GH 10iu's ed, Novalog 20iu's ed, test prop 250mg ed, tren ace 150mg ed and anadrol 100mg ed. If I eat like a horse, I will gain a minimum of 15kg within the next 6 weeks and should reach 120kg before reaching a plateau. Taking time off allows you to consolidate your gains when PCT is done properly, and I did not lose a pound. I gained weight in PCT. I may up my slin dosage.

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## thunderin

Five days into my cycle, my doctor wanted to run a thoracic CT scan on my lungs to be sure I am completely healthy since I stopped smoking 3 1/2 months ago (17 years of smoking a pack a day). I was terrified for sure. The results for my lungs came back fine, but one slide showed a calcification on my coronary artery. Terrified again. Both of my grandfathers died very young from heart attacks, and both of my parents have issues with cardiovascular disease. They did an angiogram on me with ultrasound by running a near one meter long catheter to my coronary artery through my radial artery near my wrist. Not a pleasant experience, but necessary to know. The doctor finished. Removed the catheter and said, &quot;It is a very mild calcification and the blockage is less than 10%.&quot; I am not religious, but in that moment I thanked God for sparing me from a much worse fate. The doctor could not find a reason why I have any blockage at all since my diet is very clean and my cardio and lifting are excellent. I have been in this game for over 28 years now, and it did not make sense. My ECG and stress tests were perfect. Then, he had me fast for 12 hours and ran a cholesterol test. My LDL was low, but my HDL was almost non-existant. So, they put me on a statin called Crestor and Niastin to boost my HDL. They said it is genetic. Over 40 years old, and only a 10% blockage. I am blessed. Please have a thorough heart check at least once per year. It could very well save your life.

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## thunderin

Glad to see that Merc is back on the board. I want everyone to know that he was 100% correct by saying that esters do change how a hormone reacts with your body and not just the length of release. Case in point: testosterone suspension . Twice daily injects of test suspension of 50mg each, bloat me more than every other day injections of test prop at 300mg each. Fluctuations in hormone levels occur with both, and the volume of testosterone injected with the test prop is higher even when the prop ester is cleaved off. Moot point. Also, my libido and aggression are higher with test suspension than test prop. For me, it is very clear that testosterone is not testosterone regardless of the ester attached to it. Each estered or non-estered presentation are unique and varied. Thanks Merc.

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## thunderin

As the title of this thread is for 2007-2008, I thought it only fitting to bring it to its full fruition with an all out, balls to the wall, freakish bulker. Thus, I started running the heaviest cycle in my life 8 days ago. Why? I really want to break 260lbs (118kg), and if I don't do it now, I probably will never do it.

I have run virtually every combination of AAS, even most all of the exotics, always thinking I would happen on to some magic combination. 

What is the magic combination? It is large amounts of food, testosterone , anadrol , insulin , tren , deca and insulin combined with heavy training and proper rest. 

I reached my natural potential about 10 years ago, and my AAS potential on between 1.5 and 2 grams of total AAS a few years ago.

I will not mention my dosages unless asked, but I took them directly from BDTR, my AR hero.

Wish me luck, and 260lbs, here I come! :7up:

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## lovbyts

> Sorry for the late reply. They would absolutely not take my blood. They test it with a finger prick. I do not take high blood pressure meds, I simply drain 550mL of my blood every 2-3 weeks(phlebotomy is the proper name). Honestly, it doesn't hurt. It can make a mess though.


Phlebotomy 
Actually there are places that will do it. I have a prescription from my longevity doc and going to get it done today due to elivated iron in the blood and I have not donated since I was in my mid 20s due to getting Hepatitis B from donating the first time...  :Frown: 

They say it's a good practice to do especially if you are over 40 but I dont know about ever 3 weeks.....maybe every 4-6 months.

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## thunderin

> Phlebotomy 
> Actually there are places that will do it. I have a prescription from my longevity doc and going to get it done today due to elivated iron in the blood and I have not donated since I was in my mid 20s due to getting Hepatitis B from donating the first time... 
> 
> They say it's a good practice to do especially if you are over 40 but I dont know about ever 3 weeks.....maybe every 4-6 months.


Sorry to hear about you getting Hep B from donating blood. I donate so frequently because I am taking a lot of gear, and I don't let my RBC count go over 5.5. Loads of gear will cause your body to produce very high amounts of red blood cells.

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## thunderin

Ok, I give. Here is my current cycle, but be warned: I strongly advise against anyone else following it. 

How long will it last? It wil last until I reach at least 260lbs+, which should not be long. My weight was 233lbs. today.

These are weekly totals of every day injects:

3.5 grams testosterone enanthate (500mg ed)
1.2 grams deca -durabolin (180mg ed)
875 mg trenbolone hexahydrobenzylcarbonate (125mg ed)
200 mg anadrol each day for 9 weeks
14iu's GH each day (half am - half pm)
30iu's humalog each day (half am - half pm)

That works out to about 4mL of oil injects each day. I hit 3 different spots on each glute and quad for a total of 12 different sites. I rotate so I only hit each spot one time every six days with a max of 2mL in each site. 

I eat until I am almost uncomfortably full 6 times each day. Distended abs? Of course. Why? Because I eat like a horse. BF % < 12%

Sore nips? A bit, but I had gyno when I was 13 years old, 3 years before I ever took AAS. No biggie.

Full strict reps on the Smith machine today with 315lbs doing standing shoulder presses for 3 sets of 6. I am feeling really good :Bbbump: .

Favorite video: Dorian Yates - Blood and Guts

[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/USER/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/USER/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpg[/IMG]

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## sdc

That's insane. I wish you luck. You must be huge, but at those doses you can only play this game for so long

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## icepick27

iam 27 years old weight 210lbs bf 10% ,maybe lower need to update it ,i been on aas for a year not straight,but it was untill i started hgh ,when every thing started comming together ,i was always big bulky and strong .when i started the growth in a little over 2 weeks my body fat dropped dramaticly i went from ,no abs and a little flab to having vains on my stomach .i just started out with 5 ius once a day and i was on a low dose of test 250mg, lately i bumped it uo to 600mg of t 400 and i got bigger but i think its puttting unwanted water weight on me i dont look as tight ,should i lower it back down to 250mgs or stop it all together ?and also i was thinking about picking up anavar this week what do u think does this wrok well with hgh ?thanks

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## bjpennnn

> Ok, I give. Here is my current cycle, but be warned: I strongly advise against anyone else following it. 
> 
> How long will it last? It wil last until I reach at least 260lbs+, which should not be long. My weight was 233lbs. today.
> 
> These are weekly totals of every day injects:
> 
> 3.5 grams testosterone enanthate (500mg ed)
> 1.2 grams deca -durabolin (180mg ed)
> 875 mg trenbolone hexahydrobenzylcarbonate (125mg ed)
> ...


**** i wish i cold hit something like that ha.

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## Alphatier

> Ok, I give. Here is my current cycle, but be warned: I strongly advise against anyone else following it. 
> 
> How long will it last? It wil last until I reach at least 260lbs+, which should not be long. My weight was 233lbs. today.
> 
> These are weekly totals of every day injects:
> 
> 3.5 grams testosterone enanthate (500mg ed)
> 1.2 grams deca -durabolin (180mg ed)
> 875 mg trenbolone hexahydrobenzylcarbonate (125mg ed)
> ...

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## thunderin

> iam 27 years old weight 210lbs bf 10% ,maybe lower need to update it ,i been on aas for a year not straight,but it was untill i started hgh ,when every thing started comming together ,i was always big bulky and strong .when i started the growth in a little over 2 weeks my body fat dropped dramaticly i went from ,no abs and a little flab to having vains on my stomach .i just started out with 5 ius once a day and i was on a low dose of test 250mg, lately i bumped it uo to 600mg of t 400 and i got bigger but i think its puttting unwanted water weight on me i dont look as tight ,should i lower it back down to 250mgs or stop it all together ?and also i was thinking about picking up anavar this week what do u think does this wrok well with hgh ?thanks


It all depends on your goals. Water retention is very common with GH. 




> That's insane. I wish you luck. You must be huge, but at those doses you can only play this game for so long


Thanks. Here is a quote from Bill Roberts. "A particularly interesting property of testosterone is its low toxicity, exclusive of the above-mentioned side effects. Doses of two grams or four grams per week are hardly unknown in bodybuilding, and are not particularly hard on the liver. No one seems to want to take doses of any other single steroid at comparably-effective doses, and it seems that if one tried, they might be more toxic. E.g., the  hepatotoxicity of Winstrol Depot resulting from its 17a -methyl group is not severe at doses of say 350 mg/week, but might well be problematic at a dose of two grams per week – though that is speculation, since no one I have heard of uses such doses of Winstrol . Thus, at the higher dosage regimes testosterone appears to have an advantage in terms of toxicity vs. effectiveness over many of the synthetics. These doses, however, are in the pro bodybuilder range. In the dosage range more appropriate for most individuals, the reverse is often the case."

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## bjpennnn

you need to get some pics up after this cycle!

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## Seattle Junk

> Ok, I give. Here is my current cycle, but be warned: I strongly advise against anyone else following it. 
> 
> How long will it last? It wil last until I reach at least 260lbs+, which should not be long. My weight was 233lbs. today.
> 
> These are weekly totals of every day injects:
> 
> 3.5 grams testosterone enanthate (500mg ed)
> 1.2 grams deca -durabolin (180mg ed)
> 875 mg trenbolone hexahydrobenzylcarbonate (125mg ed)
> ...


I always like to read about these super sized cycles and see what transpires. I hope you are drinking a load of water and taking liver protection supps? That 4 tabs of A-50 per day makes my liver hurt after just reading it. I think I am having back pumps right now trying to clear the c-17 that I just absorbed after reading this? How solid is your diet? You will hit 260 no problem. But what kind of quality, I dunno?

Your receptors cannot absorb 3.5 grams of test per week. I would say 1.5 grams would be the max but that is too much IMO. So that just means more side effects.

Hey, good luck to you bro. I want to follow your progress. You're an animal!

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## thunderin

> I always like to read about these super sized cycles and see what transpires. I hope you are drinking a load of water and taking liver protection supps? That 4 tabs of A-50 per day makes my liver hurt after just reading it. I think I am having back pumps right now trying to clear the c-17 that I just absorbed after reading this? How solid is your diet? You will hit 260 no problem. But what kind of quality, I dunno?
> 
> Your receptors cannot absorb 3.5 grams of test per week. I would say 1.5 grams would be the max but that is too much IMO. So that just means more side effects.
> 
> Hey, good luck to you bro. I want to follow your progress. You're an animal!


Thanks, my diet is very solid as I am running quite a bit of Humalog, and I am watching my liver values closely. I just stay stuffed most of the time.

I am starting to get real nice pumps and strength gains, and I am very satisfied with my cycle thus far.

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## thunderin

Apologies for my hiatus, but I will try to make up for it.

Things to know about GH if taken in doses of 10-15 iu's ed:

1. Skin tags began to grow on my scalp and all over my upper body.

2. GH, T4 and slin (20ius ed) alone do not compare to a solid AAS cycle. 

3. GH does keep you looking much younger.

4. It is indispensable when dieting on an AAS cycle if you want to keep as much LBM as possible.

5. Less than 4 iu's ed is a waste of my time, sorry for those who disagree.

6. I plan on using it for the rest of my life.

7. 5iu's ed is best for me to maintain and 10 iu's for muscle growth or fat loss for competition.

8. 5iu's twice to a day gave me just as good results as 2.5 iu's 4 times per day.

9. Yes, your feet and hands will grow on 10+ iu's ed.

10. People tell me I look at least 8 years younger than what my age really is. Could be genetics or could be GH and a healthy lifestyle.

11. Being fat sucks as does looking like a bulked-up sumo wrestler (a.k.a. pro's in the off-season)

12. I do not recommend GH for anyone who has not reached their maximum natural potential yet.

13. GH and tren are truly the nectar of the gods, if used properly. 

14. Use wisely, live long.

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## peteroy01

how many hours between GH injections?

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## canadian meat

Happy to see you back around I always enjoy reading your posts.

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## thunderin

After running 5 months of aggressive PCT earlier this year, ending in June, and running a very heavy cycle since then, my wife is pregnant, again. My previous cycle had run for nearly 2 years. I was sure that it would not be an issue, but both of my children have now been conceived while I was on cycle. The doc said a man only needs a sperm count of 3 - 5 million to do the deed, if your wife is very fertile.

Happy but shocked, and I was planning on coming off my current cycle to get her pregnant next June.

I am just finishing up a cutting cycle, and I definitely have to admit I made some mistakes this time. I ran GH and slin throughout my PCT at high doses and got fat as crap. Then, I didn't watch diet closely enough while I was bulking, and my bf % stayed the same even though my weight went up drastically.

So, after dieting down to where I was when I competed last year. I can honestly say, all my effort resulted in a mere 3 kg more of lean muscle this year than last. 

Guess, I don't have to come off cycle now :AaGreen22: .

Live and learn. You can have all the best meds for bodybuilding in the world, but proper nutrition is more important than anything else. I remember someone here has that on their signature.

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## ScotchGuard

Awesome read. Thanks for the effort.

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