# COMPETITIVE BODYBUILDING - POWERLIFTING - ATHLETICS & SPORTS > BOXING / FIGHTING / WRESTLING >  If you could train only 1 art.

## Deltasaurus

ok heres the deal.

we are back to the stone ages, no weapons may be used, all fights are one on one.

Which are to you Master?

Muay Thai
Boxing
Krav Margra
Kung Fu
Tkd
BJJ or JJ
Judo
Sambo
etc.......

i say striking wouldnt be optimal because if u fought often ur hands and feet and what not would be destroyed and you couldnt defend yourself as well.

id go with like BJJ or Catch Wrestling, submission grappling


go ahead and lemme know what you think

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## BJJ

> ok heres the deal.
> 
> we are back to the stone ages, no weapons may be used, all fights are one on one.
> 
> Which are to you Master?
> 
> Muay Thai
> Boxing
> Krav Margra
> ...



Look man your question in reality is a rhetoric question!
You have already written the answer, BJJ. But since in the stone ages no kimono was available, then I would say Grappling, which is almost the same but without kimono.

For those who have doubts, check on the net who were the Gracie family but mostly what they showed to the world of MMA.

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## lostcause

thats what the ufc proved was wich art was superior, and it was bjj followed by wrestling. if it was up to me i would probally go with archery.

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## BJJ

> thats what the ufc proved was wich art was superior, and it was bjj followed by wrestling. if it was up to me i would probally go with archery.


Archery in the stone age?... it would not be called "stone".

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## lostcause

ur right, maybe baseball then so i could pitch.

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## BJJ

That's better, after all a piece of wood and a stone were surely available.

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## Dukkit

1 word


NINJA

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## BJJ

> 1 word
> 
> 
> NINJA


Nice art... "Someone who stirs secretly" or easily "someone who practises Ninjutsu".

Still, without using its weapons, a ninja cannot prevail.

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## Dukkit

> Nice art... "Someone who stirs secretly" or easily "someone who practises Ninjutsu".
> 
> Still, without using its weapons, a ninja cannot prevail.


ninja

 :0samuriay:

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## BJJ

> ninja


See, that's perfectly what I meant.
Weapons...

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## Dukkit

nin


ja!!

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## xnotoriousx

either Muay Thai or BJJ

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## DSM4Life

The art of love making. Wanna be my first student ?

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## irish_2003

jeet kun do

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## BJJ

> jeet kun do


Nice one, Bruce Lee told us all, but once you go on the ground and before or later you DO GO ON THE GROUND, you lose!

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## Deltasaurus

like i said though JKD or MT would not be optimal because if you fought often your bones would be mush and broken because of the impact of striking others, why those arts? explain

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## Dukkit

Ninja

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## irish_2003

> like i said though JKD or MT would not be optimal because if you fought often your bones would be mush and broken because of the impact of striking others, why those arts? explain


fights at a bar or whatever rarely if ever go to the ground.....they usually get broken up by the bouncers and/or friends way before that would ever happen....i sometimes work as a bouncer and have done some private security before and am well versed in hapkido (i took tae kwon do, hapkido, and judo throughout high school) so i know i'm not allowed to strike anyone, but when i'm a customer if something happens i want to strike first, strike quick, strike hard!

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## BJJ

> Ninja


It's now clear... You are a Ninja Lover!
Perhaps in another life...

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## BJJ

> fights at a bar or whatever rarely if ever go to the ground.....they usually get broken up by the bouncers and/or friends way before that would ever happen....i sometimes work as a bouncer and have done some private security before and am well versed in hapkido (i took tae kwon do, hapkido, and judo throughout high school) so i know i'm not allowed to strike anyone, but when i'm a customer if something happens i want to strike first, strike quick, strike hard!


Because you have never dealt with at least a purple belt BJJ.
One's strikes are totally useless in that case, one may have his own wrist broken before understanding what happened.

Different things if you fight in a bar with people who do not know the meaning of being a martial artist in case, you may find a boxer. Then being good with strikes is important but, try to strike an aikido black belt...

Mr. Mike Tyson never had the chance to meet Helio Gracie, unfortunately!

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## irish_2003

my other reason is i personally don't like to wrestle and i get bored watching bjj on ufc....to me it's boring....but, i'd do my best to avoid those guys if i knew that's what they were trained in

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## BJJ

> my other reason is i personally don't like to wrestle and i get bored watching bjj on ufc....to me it's boring....but, i'd do my best to avoid those guys if i knew that's what they were trained in


smart move I would say.

regarding the fact that you get bored, it is because you probably never tried yourself. why don't you do it once just to see? you may like it.

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## PC650

Id be a PIRATE!!!!

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## BJJ

> Id be a PIRATE!!!!


In the stone age there was no ship to sail.  :2nono:

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## PC650

:Haha: well how would you learn how to ninja in the stoneage. werent they half apes :Bbiwin:

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## BJJ

> well how would you learn how to ninja in the stoneage. werent they half apes


I did not speak about Ninja, someone else did...
Read better!  :Bbiwin:

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## Bio-boosted

I'd master the Glasgow Kiss.

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## Deltasaurus

> fights at a bar or whatever rarely if ever go to the ground.....they usually get broken up by the bouncers and/or friends way before that would ever happen....i sometimes work as a bouncer and have done some private security before and am well versed in hapkido (i took tae kwon do, hapkido, and judo throughout high school) so i know i'm not allowed to strike anyone, but when i'm a customer if something happens i want to strike first, strike quick, strike hard!


in my first post i stated the scene,

Stone age, no weapons.

so ok its one on one u and him in the dirt. what are you choose?
striker could be good maybe even against a grappler, but day in day out, ur hand will be useless the will be broken

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## PC650

:0chris:

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## Deltasaurus

hey bro this aint the lounge, not be a dick but serious if you dont have anything to say on the topic, plz dont post. dukkit makes it ok for everyone.

lol

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## irish_2003

> in my first post i stated the scene,
> 
> Stone age, no weapons.
> 
> so ok its one on one u and him in the dirt. what are you choose?
> striker could be good maybe even against a grappler, but day in day out, ur hand will be useless the will be broken


rex kwon do!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKmUsVeKp1o

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## MadSweeps

Nogi BJJ. I train in BJJ and JKD now and we use them both together in self defense senarios.

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## tupollo

> ok heres the deal.
> 
> we are back to the stone ages, no weapons may be used, all fights are one on one.
> 
> Which are to you Master?
> 
> Muay Thai
> Boxing
> Krav Margra
> ...


kapap hands down.

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## BJJ

> rex kwon do!
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKmUsVeKp1o


cooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo l!

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## kaptainkeezy04

My instructor teaches me Okinawan Goju Ryu. What can you guys tell me about it?

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## BJJ

I tell you I like it very much...

It's a sort of mix between BJJ, Aikido, Judo and of course Karate.
If one's fast enough while standing it can came up with a good match with a BJJ.

What's your belt color?

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## kaptainkeezy04

> I tell you I like it very much...
> 
> It's a sort of mix between BJJ, Aikido, Judo and of course Karate.
> If one's fast enough while standing it can came up with a good match with a BJJ.
> 
> What's your belt color?


We haven't really talked about belts. I took ten lessons from a guy in San Diego before I moved to Dallas, and I am now looking for a place to train out here. He taught me a lot of pretty wicked stuff, like gauging eyes out, ripping out tracheas, breaking knees, etc. I was just wondering if this is a good art to stick with. What this guy taught was "American Street Combat," which was how to defend yourself in every day situations like being jumped by a group, attacked with a knife, or bat, and of course 1 on 1 stuff, but when I asked him specifically what style of training I was learning, he said Okinawan Goju Ryu. His dad taught him since he was in grade school, and by the age of 15, he was teaching marines with his dad, which he now does for free.

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## BJJ

> We haven't really talked about belts. I took ten lessons from a guy in San Diego before I moved to Dallas, and I am now looking for a place to train out here. He taught me a lot of pretty wicked stuff, like gauging eyes out, ripping out tracheas, breaking knees, etc. I was just wondering if this is a good art to stick with. What this guy taught was "American Street Combat," which was how to defend yourself in every day situations like being jumped by a group, attacked with a knife, or bat, and of course 1 on 1 stuff, but when I asked him specifically what style of training I was learning, he said Okinawan Goju Ryu. His dad taught him since he was in grade school, and by the age of 15, he was teaching marines with his dad, which he now does for free.


Kepp going on, it's a good one actually one the the best standing but remember if you go on the ground and deal with someone who knows bjj, you'll be in serious danger.

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## BJJ

I was thinking another good martial art is Sanda (a mix of all except bjj)... you may like it as well.

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## banthar

When people think BJJ or Catch Wrestling, submission grappling thay are thinking with MMA rules. You take out those rules and thay become crap against anyone that knows whats coming.

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## Deltasaurus

^^^^False, they can use any of the tactics that their opponent may be using, maybe they dont even submit there opponent people over look the point of grappling its not just submission its positional dominance, youtube BJJ VS
and see what you get the guys tried grabbing balls and everything else.

calling submission grappling "Crap" lol against Joe Blow who knows its comming lol
ya Joe Blow by I-have-a-Tapout-shirt lol

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## BJJ

> When people think BJJ or Catch Wrestling, submission grappling thay are thinking with MMA rules. You take out those rules and thay become crap against anyone that knows whats coming.


Wow, you are cool man.
Then I would crap against you... then I wasted 15 years of my life...
What a pity!

Tell you what, YOU come in Italy and *show me* what you have quoted.
If you succeed I'll pay you the flight back and refund you the flight in.  :Welcome:

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## LickAlotOfPuss

Wrestling or muy thai defiantly not bbj

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## BJJ

> Wrestling or muy thai defiantly not bbj


what's bbj man?  :Hmmmm:

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## irish_2003

> what's bbj man?


DSM most def will have a smartass answer for this

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## BJJ

> DSM most def will have a smartass answer for this


I can easily imagine it...
but I believe who wrote that knows about BJJ as he knows who to write it down!

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## banthar

> Wow, you are cool man.
> Then I would crap against you... then I wasted 15 years of my life...
> What a pity!
> 
> Tell you what, YOU come in Italy and *show me* what you have quoted.
> If you succeed I'll pay you the flight back and refund you the flight in.


I'm a Shotokan black belt 3rd Dan. Go to your local shotokan dojo tell them your the shit at Brazilian jiu-jitsu and you want to fight a 3rd Dan see how that works out for you.

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## Ironnips

I would go with bjj.

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## gunslinger2

A combo of BJJ and Kino mutai. For the people who don't know what Kino mutai is, its a nice combination of biting/eye gouging. People with their eyes poked out and nose bitten off usually lose all interest in fighting back.

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## BJJ

> I'm a Shotokan black belt 3rd Dan. Go to your local shotokan dojo tell them your the shit at Brazilian jiu-jitsu and you want to fight a 3rd Dan see how that works out for you.


Look, you are confused... very much indeed!

Read carefully please.
Lo Shotokan is just a style of traditional Karate, then we have Goju-ryu, Shito-ryu, Shorin-ryu e Wado-ryu... nothing particular but nice to see.
Like other martial arts you fight standings and the Gracie's family well showed around US gyms the differences with BJJ. (If you ignored that to be happened watch some videos on youtube).
The fact you are a black belt 3rd dan means not that much to me since I am a black belt too, but only 1st dan so far unfortunately. :1laugh: 

I don't need to go to any doji since I know your discipline and I can tell you that the fact you are so ill-mannered using bad words when everyone was speaking normally (actually writing) mean to me only one thing, you are afraid of BJJ. Perhaps you had a bad experience and want to remove it simply defaming the facts and being quarrelling verbally to whoever speaks about BJJ.

I had already fought and won with more completed opponents than you seem to be.
Furthermore, when I was a white belt with more or less 6 months of training I used to fight with an instructors of Aikido who was 40yo with 20 years experience of background. I always won, because my target was to put him down and then take the position to neutralize him first, finalize him then. He told me "I wasted my entire life learning and becoming a master just to lose with a child". And he was an Aikido black belt which is far beyond to Shotokan.

What you guys of other martial arts seem not wanting to accept is the simple fact that before or later you do go on the ground and unless you know how to move, you can learn it with BJJ, you are a fish outside its water. Simple concept, all the rest are just words and those fly away with the wind! :Welcome: 

Think about.

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## BJJ

> A combo of BJJ and Kino mutai. For the people who don't know what Kino mutai is, its a nice combination of biting/eye gouging. People with their eyes poked out and nose bitten off usually lose all interest in fighting back.


Well actually BJJ at the beginning was taught in that way, I mean the rude and harsh way.
All the strokes of Mutai are part of first BJJ experience. Then, it had to be "skimmed" to include it and the MMA world.

But you are right, to answer the question that started this thread the best art could be the ancient BJJ or the combination of modern BJJ (which is what I learnt) and Kino Mutai.

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## Deltasaurus

i think the other arts are great arts but some people become delusional on there effectiveness, BJJ practitioners Roll, or spar, or go live everyday and are very comfortable in the art and live combat, yes strikes are not involved, but with positional dominance and constant sparring it would be very easy to adapt. the reason strikers are not involved are so we do not run into the problem of not being able to spar daily

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## gunslinger2

> i think the other arts are great arts but some people become delusional on there effectiveness, BJJ practitioners Roll, or spar, or go live everyday and are very comfortable in the art and live combat


Very well said. I'm actually impressed, there seems to be some very fight educated people on this forum.

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## BJJ

> Very well said. I'm actually impressed, there seems to be some very fight educated people on this forum.


Well actually I am disappointed instead since I am dealing with almost all US people here and I thought BJJ was much more developed!

After all, Gracie's second home country is U.S.A.  :Hmmmm:

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## gunslinger2

> Well actually I am disappointed instead since I am dealing with almost all US people here and I thought BJJ was much more developed!
> 
> After all, Gracie's second home country is U.S.A.



They have seen too much boxing.

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## BJJ

That's why!

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## Ironnips

I would use mma

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## Brown Ninja

TKD is almighty

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## xlxBigSexyxlx

Oldschool original Ninjutsu would kill anyone for sure...

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## Brown Ninja

what about ninja's?

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## BJJ

> TKD is almighty


Using legs, sure it is the best among all and but... just legs are not enough.

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## kaptainkeezy04

If I could train one art, I would probably do painting...impressionist stuff.

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## !!!ZeuS!!!

muay thai with a slice of krabi krabong i no you say one stile but!!!!!! krabi is a style of the original muay thai war were not won with just hands and feet

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## BJJ

> muay thai with a slice of krabi krabong i no you say one stile but!!!!!! krabi is a style of the original muay thai war were not won with just hands and feet


You have chosen one of the most dangerous martial arts.
Krabi krabong is an "only offence" art which, nevertheless, it is used in combination with weapons.
So, in the stone age you could have found only stones...  :2nono:

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## irish_2003

I still say Rex Kwon Do

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## !!!ZeuS!!!

chuck norris would kick ass lol

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## MadSweeps

BJJ for me. 

Its like some people think that BJJ guy don't know how to punch someone?
I mean I'm pretty sure that once I get mount on someone I can figure out what to do next. Thats if the guy is still awake or still wants to fight with a broken elbow.

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## TheOdyssey

Combat Cambo!
This martial art include Judo take down skills, strikings (kicks and punches), submission skills, and basic weapon (such as knifes) skills. 
There is a reason why Fyodor Emelianenko have been champion in Judo, Cambo, Combat Cambo and MMA! (All in open weight class)

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## BJJ

forget the weapons, there were none of them in the stone age.
...and i believe you wanted to mean combat combo, right?

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## Kiki

Muay Thai hands down

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## BJJ

> Muay Thai hands down


You wanted to mean "Muay Thai hands up"  :1laugh:

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## Brown Ninja

pro wrestling

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## gunslinger2

> pro wrestling


Only if using old school ECW circa 1993.

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## o3clipsegts

brazilian jiu jitsu

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## BJJ

> ok heres the deal.
> 
> we are back to the stone ages, no weapons may be used, all fights are one on one.
> 
> Which are to you Master?
> 
> Muay Thai
> Boxing
> Krav Margra
> ...




Why don't you start a poll, just to see in a better way the whole of the preferences.
I noticed many people looked at this thread but just a few answered.

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## Deltasaurus

do it

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## Geezy

I'd do shotokan ...that way my "hadoken" will destroy all!!!

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## JUSTamazing

Pradel Serey or Bokator AKA Kickboxing, but if I had to choose from your list muay thai. I start Kickboxing classes next month so ofcourse I would want to be master of this.

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## JUSTamazing

> I'd do shotokan ...that way my "hadoken" will destroy all!!!


LOL, I've been play street fighter since the super nintendo days until now to the ps3. BEST FIGHTING GAME EVER.

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## elpropiotorvic

Shaolin

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## BlindShooterSSS

The one part I hate about boxing is the scheduling.
how sometimes you take a fighter to a fight, just to find out the other guy didnt show, or there is too many fights so they cut a few.
So Im looking for ideas, What would make a perfect boxing show? and how could it be pulled off?

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## 1Limey

If i had to choose 1 art it would be muay thai,true most fights end up on the ground but 100% start standing

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## ACJiujitsu

> Well actually I am disappointed instead since I am dealing with almost all US people here and I thought BJJ was much more developed!
> 
> After all, Gracie's second home country is U.S.A.


Some of Us know what the deal is.

If you were going to train 1 art,it would have to be bjj. alot of people think of BJJ as sport jiujitsu.Thats not how it was intended.If you go to a good/Legit BJJ school you will learn that BJJ was originally a complete self defense system.We have classes where we learn the self defense aspects of BJJ along with the latest inovations in sport BJJ.What good is it to learn an art if you cant use it to defend yourself. For anyone doubting BJJ and its practical applications,just walk into a LEGIT bjj school and tell them of your concerns.Anyone of their blue belts would be glad to show you just how wrong you are.

Greg G
Team Balance South Jersey

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## BJJ

> Some of Us know what the deal is.
> 
> If you were going to train 1 art,it would have to be bjj. alot of people think of BJJ as sport jiujitsu.Thats not how it was intended.If you go to a good/Legit BJJ school you will learn that BJJ was originally a complete self defense system.We have classes where we learn the self defense aspects of BJJ along with the latest inovations in sport BJJ.What good is it to learn an art if you cant use it to defend yourself. For anyone doubting BJJ and its practical applications,just walk into a LEGIT bjj school and tell them of your concerns.Anyone of their blue belts would be glad to show you just how wrong you are.
> 
> Greg G
> Team Balance South Jersey


What????? :Hmmmm:  :Hmmmm:  :Hmmmm: 

Either I do not understand what you mean or you totally misunderstood the meaning of my previous post!
In the mean while you try to figure out which answer apply correctly to your thoughts, please have a look of my profile...  :Welcome:

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## B*R*A*D UK

kick boxing.

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## ACJiujitsu

> What?????
> 
> Either I do not understand what you mean or you totally misunderstood the meaning of my previous post!
> In the mean while you try to figure out which answer apply correctly to your thoughts, please have a look of my profile...


I think your misunderstanding.I was agreeing with you and then saying that some of us in the USA know exactly what BJJ can do for you. I took your post as saying that some people dont understand the effectiveness of BJJ which is strange because the USA is the Gracies second home....Right????

I said that some of us do

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## BJJ

> I think your misunderstanding.I was agreeing with you and then saying that some of us in the USA know exactly what BJJ can do for you. I took your post as saying that some people dont understand the effectiveness of BJJ which is strange because the USA is the Gracies second home....Right????
> 
> I said that some of us do


OK then, I am the one who misunderstood since we both agree.
Finally, I have found someone from USA who agrees with me!

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## ACJiujitsu

> OK then, I am the one who misunderstood since we both agree.
> Finally, I have found someone from USA who agrees with me!


BTW its very impressive that you have attained a black belt in bJJ.Thats my ultimate goal in life.

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## BJJ

> BTW its very impressive that you have attained a black belt in bJJ.Thats my ultimate goal in life. I love this sport more than any.I started my BJJ career under Ricardo Almedia and one of his Black belts Bill Scott.I since had to move and went to a Rickson gracie Black belt(joe diamond). Finally after realizing that was not the place for me,i came upon Relson gracie Black belt and Team Balance founder Phil Migliarese and my BJJ mentor Black Belt Rich Komar who runs Team balance Komar(south jersey). I can say that no matter what happens,i will always be a Team balance member. It is by far the best fit for me.They have brought my BJJ game up to where it needs to be as well as been a great friend outside the grappling world,when i needed them(medically). Who did you receive your BJJ Black Belt from?


I am gonna PM you.

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## Hack da Squat

> When people think BJJ or Catch Wrestling, submission grappling thay are thinking with MMA rules. You take out those rules and thay become crap against anyone that knows whats coming.


But u see with bjj i just gota get u to the ground i dont need to make u tap out ill brake evrything i can no taping out on the street mate. :Bbiwin:

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## Hack da Squat

Ground you then pound you

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## BJJ

> I'm a Shotokan black belt 3rd Dan. Go to your local shotokan dojo tell them your the shit at Brazilian jiu-jitsu and you want to fight a 3rd Dan see how that works out for you.





> But u see with bjj i just gota get u to the ground i dont need to make u tap out ill brake evrything i can no taping out on the street mate.


Do not reply to him, be very careful, he is a 3rd Dan Shotokan man...

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## Brown Ninja

can't you get a 3rd degree Dan Shotokan at any strip mall for $1,500?

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## BJJ

> Gracies? over rated....they fought when the sport was in its infancy....hardly compete today with these athletes and *now bjj isnt a mystery* either, Gracies are great bjj but mma they steady get that ass kicked. FACT


In fact it is the base of every good MMA fighter.
Without well knowing BJJ, thinking to win is a utopia.

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## BJJ

> Robbie Lawler
> Ryan Bader
> Matt Hammill
> Phil Baroni
> Mark Coleman....The former champ
> Randy Couture
> Brock Lesnar is the freakin champ and he cant spell BJJ...That proves u wrong with this one name! FACT!!!!!!!!
> Rampage Jackson
> Chuck Lidell
> ...





> Wrestling or Kickboxing skills is the number 1 tool to have!!!!!!!! BJJ is OVER RATED!!!!!!!!


It is clear you know nothing about martial arts.
Kickboxing...  :1laugh: 

Do you practise any martial arts?

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## supermanfw

catch wrestling all the way

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## terraj

I have some time in a few sytles and I did teach a for a while, boys I trained with fight for a living...one even fought Fedor( believe it or not)...

For me...

For fun grappling. I also see no big diffence between the sub grappling styles...BJJ, catch, shoot, JJ....all the same pretty much.

For an effective self defence in a very short time peroid - kick boxing or thai, at a competetive school...it's insane fitness and is the mot effective art to use in a street fight. People who say otherwise, have not been in many street fights...no disrespect intended.

When I have kids, the boys will wrestle...but, with ear protection.

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## BJJ

> I have some time in a few sytles and I did teach a for a while, boys I trained with fight for a living...one even fought Fedor( believe it or not)...
> 
> For me...
> 
> For fun grappling. *I also see no big diffence between the sub grappling styles...BJJ, catch, shoot, JJ....all the same pretty much.*
> 
> For an effective self defence in a very short time peroid - kick boxing or thai, at a competetive school...it's insane fitness and is the mot effective art to use in a street fight. People who say otherwise, have not been in many street fights...no disrespect intended.
> 
> When I have kids, the boys will wrestle...but, with ear protection.


To me there is a deep difference because while with simple grappling you learn how to submit with your limbs only (and your opponent's ones), with bjj you add the use of your own gi and your opponent's one; applied also to clothes. For self defense only, we do train dressed with jeans and shirts or t-shirts or a fake jacket with a tie.
As you may easily guess, there are a multitude of things that can be done comparing to a fighter who ignores how to use in his advantage those things (a grappler for example).

Regarding a street fight, I agree with you if we speak about a multitude of opponents, more than two I mean. However, in that case I believe sanda & bjj together are the best arts a fighter can use against anyone.

But if we speak about a street fight against one or two people maximum, brazilian jiu-jitsu is far more complete and successful than any other martial arts.

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## terraj

> To me there is a deep difference because while with simple grappling you learn how to submit with your limbs only (and your opponent's ones), with bjj you add the use of your own gi and your opponent's one; applied also to clothes. For self defense only, we do train dressed with jeans and shirts or t-shirts or a fake jacket with a tie.
> As you may easily guess, there are a multitude of things that can be done comparing to a fighter who ignores how to use in his advantage those things (a grappler for example).
> 
> Regarding a street fight, I agree with you if we speak about a multitude of opponents, more than two I mean. However, in that case I believe sanda & bjj together are the best arts a fighter can use against anyone.
> 
> But if we speak about a street fight against one or two people maximum, brazilian jiu-jitsu is far more complete and successful than any other martial arts.



Judo you also use the Gi. Japanese Jujitsu you also use the gi.

Against two or a much larger foe you will have a much higher risk of not winning when using BJJ or a grappling sytle in a street fight. I think it smarter to strike once or twice and end the fight.


As I said in my first post---*For an effective self defence in a very short time peroid - kick boxing or thai,*.....this means someone can train for 6 months and become very well armed with skills that would very effective in a street fight...with one or more or larger foe.

I respect your belief of your sytle. But you do sound like somone who has only done one style.....you also sound like someone who is smarter then to proclaim the superiority of one sytle over other without have any experince.

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## terraj

> It is clear you know nothing about martial arts.
> Kickboxing... 
> 
> Do you practise any martial arts?


In a couple of posts after the above you claim BJJ and Sanda are the most effective combo....

You do know that Sanda is kickboxing right?

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## BJJ

> *1* Judo you also use the Gi. Japanese Jujitsu you also use the gi.
> 
> *2* Against two or a much larger foe you will have a much higher risk of not winning when using BJJ or a grappling sytle in a street fight. I think it smarter to strike once or twice and end the fight.
> 
> *3* As I said in my first post---*For an effective self defence in a very short time peroid - kick boxing or thai,*.....this means someone can train for 6 months and become very well armed with skills that would very effective in a street fight...with one or more or larger foe.
> 
> *4* I respect your belief of your sytle. But you do sound like somone who has only done one style.....you also sound like someone who is smarter then to proclaim the superiority of one sytle over other without have any experince.


*1* Sure, but those arts are not meant to fight on the ground, they focus on stood up techniques and self-defense. If I have to deal with a foe, I bring him down first. This is the deal with bjj and that is the reason why it is so effective.

*2* Against a larger foe, unless you know how to boxe, the best thing you can do is to bring him on the ground and use his clothes to submit him.

*3* 6 Months of kick boxing and you are effective against anyone on a street fight? I would like to see that one...
I think it can happen but depends mostly from who the foe is.

*4* You are totally correct, I have done only one style, brazilian jiu-jitsu.
I have been training since 20 years in several countries with different foes, many of them brazilians. Also, I trained in the USA and train regularly here in Rome with MMA fighters... believe it or not, after a couple of strikes/kicks/thrusts with elbows/punches/blows with knees attempts, I bring them down and subdue them *ALL*.
I lost, in time, only against those who also knew bjj.
So, even though I have no experience in directly training other disciplines, I know almost all of them because I train regularly against those who practise those arts. None of them is really effective stan alone.

Just out of curiosity, when I was 6 months into bjj (of course white belt) my instructor gave me the opportunity to train against an Aikido instructor who was 20 years older than me and knew nothing about bjj. He also came to learn...
The fact I had only 6 months of training against his many years of martial art on his shoulders did not help him on the ground since I was the one who used to submit all the times.
What you have previously written about 6 months of training, well apply to brazilian jiu-jitsu. How many martial arts do you know which give to a newbie the opportunity to win against any black belts of another art?




> In a couple of posts after the above you claim BJJ and Sanda are the most effective combo....
> 
> You do know that Sanda is kickboxing right?


This is a general and wrong interpretation of the styles.
Sanda is an ancient art coming from China derived from Kung Fu Wushu and used in matches called Sanda Wang, still nowadays. The main difference with Kick Boxing refers to projection techniques and the fight body to body which is part of Sanda only.

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## bjpennnn

i would say bjj cuase its my fav but i think it would be muay thai, just becuase i think its so ****en bad ass. i love striking. and my bjj wrestling grappling is pretty good already i am a natural, being a littler guy (shorter) and more stalky i feel like its harder for me to be more natural at muay thai.

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## intensityfreak

> We haven't really talked about belts. I took ten lessons from a guy in San Diego before I moved to Dallas, and I am now looking for a place to train out here. He taught me a lot of pretty wicked stuff, like gauging eyes out, ripping out tracheas, breaking knees, etc. I was just wondering if this is a good art to stick with. What this guy taught was "American Street Combat," which was how to defend yourself in every day situations like being jumped by a group, attacked with a knife, or bat, and of course 1 on 1 stuff, but when I asked him specifically what style of training I was learning, he said Okinawan Goju Ryu. His dad taught him since he was in grade school, and by the age of 15, he was teaching marines with his dad, which he now does for free.


dude all the moves you just named derive from krav maga...
krav maga mixed with jujitsu is by far surperior than anything available. ask and special force personal or private military contractor, FBI special agents, and wakenhut private security.. Nothing touches it. reguardless, if your not a punk you can take about 3-6 punches unless some one get lucky and hit the sweet spot. but you can only take one hit to the throat, eye gouge, or chin jab....

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## dane.ten

Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_2003 
fights at a bar or whatever rarely if ever go to the ground.....they usually get broken up by the bouncers and/or friends way before that would ever happen....i sometimes work as a bouncer and have done some private security before and am well versed in hapkido (i took tae kwon do, hapkido, and judo throughout high school) so i know i'm not allowed to strike anyone, but when i'm a customer if something happens i want to strike first, strike quick, strike hard! 

Because you have never dealt with at least a purple belt BJJ.
One's strikes are totally useless in that case, one may have his own wrist broken before understanding what happened.

Different things if you fight in a bar with people who do not know the meaning of being a martial artist in case, you may find a boxer. Then being good with strikes is important but, try to strike an aikido black belt...

Mr. Mike Tyson never had the chance to meet Helio Gracie, unfortunately! 

you obviously like bjj, i dont care how good at bjj you are if you have mike tyson punching hell outa you in his prime, you would not be effect in anyway in bjj, 
its not the dog in the fight, its the fight in the dog
muay thai is the don, the speed and discipline of a thai fighter is unbeatable, with kicks like a baseball bat, and elbows like knives, a bjj fighter would not stand a chance. i understand bjj is good, but a muay thai fighter would not let anyone get close enough to want to rub his body up, on the ground.
also i would love to see someone try get a traditional thai fighter into a wristlock, considering they used to dip there hands in broken glass etc...
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f11/my...aikido-405392/

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## BJJ

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by irish_2003 
> fights at a bar or whatever rarely if ever go to the ground.....they usually get broken up by the bouncers and/or friends way before that would ever happen....i sometimes work as a bouncer and have done some private security before and am well versed in hapkido (i took tae kwon do, hapkido, and judo throughout high school) so i know i'm not allowed to strike anyone, but when i'm a customer if something happens i want to strike first, strike quick, strike hard! 
> 
> Because you have never dealt with at least a purple belt BJJ.
> One's strikes are totally useless in that case, one may have his own wrist broken before understanding what happened.
> 
> Different things if you fight in a bar with people who do not know the meaning of being a martial artist in case, you may find a boxer. Then being good with strikes is important but, try to strike an aikido black belt...
> 
> ...


Who are you talking to?
Your post is a mess.
 :Hmmmm:  :Hmmmm:  :Hmmmm:

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## Bigpup101

I train and have competed for a while now so you would think I would say something like Muay thai or BJJ since I train them both 4-5 hours a day for the last 4 years but If you're going back to stone ages and there are no rules I would have to go with Krav maga..They pull hair, hit and yank the groin. I am a brown belt for american top team and I definitley wouldn't wanna go against a seasoned Krav maga guy with no rules!

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## Deltasaurus

what do u do for a living so u can train 4-5 hours a day? for 4 years?

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## Bigpup101

Sorry, i've trained the both for four years. I have been able to train 4-5 hours a day the past year and a half. I collect unemployment and I work as a bouncer 3 nights a week. I make more now than I ever did working lol. Anyway, my next fight is going to be a pro one is march.

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## Deltasaurus

lucky, i trainned at cassio wernecks in sac for a while now im training locally under one of his brown belts.. I think BJJ would be they was to go. it the art i choose.

thats cool good luck on ur fight. whats ur name?

u train with ATT in florida or cali??

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## Bigpup101

Yea, it's definitely nice. I train with ATT out of Danbury, CT. Mike Brown was there for awhile and I don't know if you remember Dan Cramer? but he trained out of our gym as well. I'll PM you my name =)

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## pjpogz

There's no way in hell you'll go toe to toe and trade strikes with a heavier and much stronger person - you'll just get knocked da f*ck out! The power of your strikes are still dependant on not only technique but how physically strong you are. 

But with BJJ/ Grappling, your chances of winning is more dependant on technique rather than strength. I submit bigger and heavier guys in my gym all the time. In fact I actually get a lot of pleasure rolling with big dudes (especially the newbies) since all you have to do is weather the storm and they're bound to get tired after a minute or two. Then that's when I go to work. Lol

But i still think BJJ is not a complete art, you still need to compliment it with a striking arts like Muay Thai, boxing & etc. Plus a bit of wrestling or judo to get them on the ground and control them. 

That's why MMA is the toughest sport in the world!

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## blackrose9

Harimau Pencak Silat. Check out Guru Besar Richard Crabbe-De-Bordes on Google. He's trained MOSSAD, CIA and the FBI. If BJJ is such a superior art why aren't the Worlds security services trained in it?

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## BJJ

> Harimau Pencak Silat. Check out Guru Besar Richard Crabbe-De-Bordes on Google. He's trained MOSSAD, CIA and the FBI. If BJJ is such a superior art *why aren't the Worlds security services trained in it*?


They are indeed, inform yourself better!

Pencak is a good art but ineffective against BJJ.
Technically speaking *there is no art* effective against BJJ, unless you are able to keep the bjj foe standing.

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## blackrose9

> They are indeed, inform yourself better!
> 
> Pencak is a good art but ineffective against BJJ.
> Technically speaking *there is no art* effective against BJJ, unless you are able to keep the bjj foe standing.


I'm picking up on the fact that you might be slightly biased in favour of BJJ. Lol. The fact is it's a sport not a fighting system. It has rules whereas fighting systems do not. There are no credible arenas for competing in Silat or Wing Chun for example because they have no rules. They are not meant to have rules because the street has no rules either.

To assume BJJ would be effective in a street situation relies too heavily on unlikely situations. For example, how many would be attackers would be alone? It is statistically proven that not many are. Whilst a BJJ practitioner would be awesome on the ground with the attacker, his mates would be watching way too closely and wade in as soon as their mate looks like he is loosing in the altercation.

In a one on one situation it would be 50/50. If an upright fighter could finish it standing up, then it would be game over. If he was taken to ground, he would have had it.

I have trained in several arts over the years. I have trained all my adult life (22 years) and as a child from the age of 7. I have been privileged to have trained and sparred with several incredibly skilled exponents in a huge variety of arts and all have good and bad points when you put a street scenario to them. To boast that no art is effective against BJJ is ridiculous. If you haven't had a chance to already, try and find some skilled exponents of different arts and lightly spar with them. If anyone near where you are trains in Harimau Pencak Silat you might be surprised just hoe effective such a low to the ground fighting system is against BJJ.

I'm not taking anything away from how effective BJJ is on the ground. I have sparred with very skilled BJJ practitioners who stuffed me when it went to ground. I have also sparred with some who couldn't get me there.

A final point, the last time Royce Gracie made the claim that you needed no other fight skills other than BJJ and no system was effective against BJJ he spectacularly got his arm broken and his arse and ego kicked by Matt Hughes.

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## BJJ

> I'm picking up on the fact that you might be slightly biased in favour of BJJ. Lol. The fact is it's a sport not a fighting system. It has rules whereas fighting systems do not. There are no credible arenas for competing in Silat or Wing Chun for example because they have no rules. They are not meant to have rules because the street has no rules either.
> 
> To assume BJJ would be effective in a street situation relies too heavily on unlikely situations. For example, how many would be attackers would be alone? It is statistically proven that not many are. Whilst a BJJ practitioner would be awesome on the ground with the attacker, his mates would be watching way too closely and wade in as soon as their mate looks like he is loosing in the altercation.
> 
> In a one on one situation it would be 50/50. If an upright fighter could finish it standing up, then it would be game over. If he was taken to ground, he would have had it.
> 
> I have trained in several arts over the years. I have trained all my adult life (22 years) and as a child from the age of 7. I have been privileged to have trained and sparred with several incredibly skilled exponents in a huge variety of arts and all have good and bad points when you put a street scenario to them. To boast that no art is effective against BJJ is ridiculous. If you haven't had a chance to already, try and find some skilled exponents of different arts and lightly spar with them. If anyone near where you are trains in Harimau Pencak Silat you might be surprised just hoe effective such a low to the ground fighting system is against BJJ.
> 
> I'm not taking anything away from how effective BJJ is on the ground. I have sparred with very skilled BJJ practitioners who stuffed me when it went to ground. I have also sparred with some who couldn't get me there.
> ...


It is just a matter of personal experience.
I see no reason why a good bjj black belt would not be able to bring down to the ground a foe of another discipline. Then, it is just a matter of time...

I practise bjj since 20 years almost and have been training with many different foes who used to practise other disciplines. I lost, over the time, only agaisnt those who knew bjj very well and never against a foe of another discipline only. This is a fact in my life and after so many years I can say it was not only an occasion but a rule.

For your info, just a few weeks ago joined our team an instructor of Krav Maga. After a couple of days of easy training he was sent to fight against a white belt of the same weight, just to show him what bjj is about. He lost.
So, what about his skills? totally useless and he was the first one to declare it in front of everybody.

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## BJJ

> A final point, the last time Royce Gracie made the claim that you needed no other fight skills other than BJJ and no system was effective against BJJ he spectacularly got his arm broken and his arse and ego kicked by Matt Hughes.


He was not the Royce of the first years anymore.
Let's see what Matt can do against Renzo in February.

In any case, how Hughes won the match?
Standing or on the ground?
By practising or attempting to practise what art?
An easy question for an easy answer!

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## organized_konfusion

Muay thai!!!!

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## Deltasaurus

^^Id take u down and sub you

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## Deltasaurus

bumping this thread, anyone that posted in here watch or goto the worlds?

also where is war machine?

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## AlphaGenetics

> bumping this thread, anyone that posted in here watch or goto the worlds?
> 
> also where is war machine?


You train in Sacramento? Do you know Enrique Perez (Rebel Fighter Promoter)? He was my bjj coach for 5 years. How about Cal Worshom?

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## Deltasaurus

Not off the top of my head

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## Wargasmz

Jeet Kune Do

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## Fetch

I've had the pleasure of training in:

Wrestling
Boxing
Muay Thai
BJJ

For me, it's a question of body type.A grappling art is going to be king no matter what. I can always take an opponent to the ground, unless he is a better wrestler than me. If I were 265+, I'd rather be a great Wrestler. The discipline simply benefits from physical gifts more than BJJ IMO. However, I'm 180 lbs and lean, so I'll be going with BJJ. 

However, one thing to note is that all of this talk is about 1 v 1. If I am looking for general survival, I would NOT take a grappling art. If I need to roll around on the ground with someone, no matter how unskilled they are, their friend can kick me in the side of the head. I'd probably go with Muay Thai for this scenario. The conditioning is top notch and the strikes are incredibly powerful.

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## ObviousDecoy

BJJ for me. What's most effective is arguable but BJJ is definitely near the top. But most importantly I find it really fun to train.

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## serratus

> ok heres the deal.
> 
> we are back to the stone ages, no weapons may be used, all fights are one on one.
> 
> Which are to you Master?
> 
> Muay Thai
> Boxing
> Krav Margra
> ...


i like classic boxing more efective in street fights

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## n00bs

Krav Maga/ninjutsu for multiple apponants

BJJ for 1 on 1 and you can take them to ground 




But it isnt the style its the fighter...

I personally do ninjutsu because i like playing with swords :P

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## Jitsu player

Great question and debate and one I've had with my friends over and over again...

I would go for BJJ or traditional Jujitsu as it has far superior take downs than BJJ and you don't need someone to be wearing a gi for either....

However....if you fighting more than one person at a time BJJ is close to being useless so I would def go for traditional jujitsu as it incorporates striking. Boxing/Muay Thai is great if your just standing and trading but for me a bar fight or any fight is about getting first strike then clinch so I can control and smash them into the ground. Having a great closed guard or omoplata is no good when his mate is kicking you in the face....(btw I'm not hating on BJJ - I love it!, but it's best kept for competitions and/or 1v1 situations)

Unless you come up against Mr Miyagi....then just run....

Jeet Kune Do only works in movies....

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## Ruutu#15

Krav Maga...

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## Ferdinand

1v1 without weapons, Krav Maga without doubt. Krava Maga puts and end to most attackers fast and brutal no matter style.

If both have equal skill level.....

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## BJJ

> 1v1 without weapons, Krav Maga without doubt. Krava Maga puts and end to most attackers fast and brutal no matter style.
> 
> If both have equal skill level.....


Unless you end up on the ground...

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## Ruutu#15

> Unless you end up on the ground...


Registered on this forum yesturday and even for me you starting to sound like a broken record  :7up: 

No offense  :Welcome:

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## BJJ

> Registered on this forum yesturday and even for me you starting to sound like a broken record 
> 
> No offense


Truth hurts...  :LOL:

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## yannick35

Being a bit older at 38 i might consider shotokan karate, for the benefits, posture , flexibility, conditioning and free style sparring in class not in competition.

I also think that a belt grading is rewarding of some kind and it always feel good to know that you have reach the top level of black belt in some art.

I also like the traditional aspect of shotokan karate, there is no musical forms and its really based on repetition.

I did karate when younger, shotokan , kyokushin as well and i build some very good reflexes.

Shotokan school that is near my house have a bit more then the school i have seen in the past, they practice on punching bag and shields, so you don't just get to kick in the air all the time. They also include some boxing techniques which i found very nice and they don't spend a lot of time on forms. There is a sparring class on Saturday morning.

But there is no ground fighting.

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## bodybuilder

How about Thug-jitsu. The art of beating people up. lol

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## walkerls1

It would be toss up between Krav Margra and BBJ. My question for you is are there any other rules you're going by other than no weapons? Either one of those two have several fatal techniques that would end the fight very quickly, as do other disciplines. I guess it would come down to who's fast enough to make the kill.

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## P90

muay thai, i like to kick and use my elbows  :Smilie:

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## Callsign

I say Muay thai for fun, but for practicality & survival to win the right to mate..BJJ.. Take em down, choke em unconsious, mount his chick, & on to the next one

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## yannick35

MMMM i know i said shotokan but things are actually looking up for me now, i have changed sport doctor and soon to receive some real prolotherapy treatments well over 100 injections in the lower back and hip and upper back to rebuild and cure all the hacks and pains. Now that being said, i would defenitly train in Muay Thai before next year, at least 3 times per week, for me its not about competition or being the best but more to lose weight and get in the best shape i can. Recent new program have shown that high intensity cardio is the way to go, like Insanity from beach bodies, lots of the tae bo tapes by billy blanks and more. I know a guy that lost close to 60 pounds in 4 months training muay thai 3 times per week, of course is diet was changed as well.

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## Callsign

I have a herniated disc in my lower back that's acting up now (change of seasons mayB, no training for me now:-(). Will prolotherapy help that? Hmmmm, dont wanna do surgery, gotta research this.

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## ScotchGuard02

I think that the outcome of the fight is based on rules.Even no-holds-barred fights that Gracie's first came up with still had rule. No kick to the groin, eye gouging, biting. scratching, sand in the face, etc. I've been a stand up fighter for over 30 years. I can knock out my bjj instructor if we're standing up. If he takes me down, I'm dead. If I had a 9" jagged piece of stick in my hand I could cause a lot of damage as he came to take me down. A stick into the soft tissue of the face can cause an immediate reaction. Again, the outcome of a fight comes down to the rules. Whether they're spoken or unspoken.

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## yannick35

> I have a herniated disc in my lower back that's acting up now (change of seasons mayB, no training for me now:-(). Will prolotherapy help that? Hmmmm, dont wanna do surgery, gotta research this.


Sorry i did not reply earlier, yes a good prolotherapist and treatments will do wonders for a herniated disc, prolotherapy strenghtens the ligaments around the vertebrae creating disc space between them and releiving the pain of the hernia.

I have spoken to many people that had hernia and prolotherapy, its all good.

http://www.caringmedical.com/therapi...ated-equal.asp

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## Callsign

Thanks bro!!! First I'm hearing of this.

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## yannick35

> Thanks bro!!! First I'm hearing of this.


I been living with back pain for 8 years now, went true every treatment there is, i have like the article said found a bad prolotherapist, been going for 2 years but still it fixed 80% of my pain, i don't have a disc hernia, but laxed ligaments and tendons where causing chronic pains. Like i said my old sport doctor gave me prolotherapy treatments that really sucked, giving me like 4-5 injections and treating one ligament at a time, i got mad a few times because i spoke to caring medication and Marion who is Dr Hauser wife and she was the one that told me i was not getting full prolo treatments.

If you have any questions if you decide to go into prolotherapy i will be ready to answer you, that will save your life. I have since found a better sport doctor that sent me for some blood test, testosterone test and more, he said i had anemia and he was right, at 38 years old he said that after he finished with me i will be an athlete, he as been treating older very active people in there 40-50 and 60 and one of them is a tri athlete, i am really excited Oct 1 this Friday i will get my first real prolotherapy treatment, it will hurt but this will cure my 100%.

Make sure that the sport doctor gives you full blood test, prolotherapy to work in its fullest and repair ligaments and tendons need a optimum immune system, a good sport doctor will take care of you and do regular follow ups to make sure everything is in gear. My old sport doctor i had to twist is arm to get a blood check, it came back negative with anemia, he gave me pills for the liver instead of changing my diet, telling me to eat more red meat and other things like that.

Also make sure that sport doctor listens to you when you talk very important. I am not sure how long it would take to strengthen the ligament for a hernia, most people i talk to took around 4-8 treatments full treatments will around 60-100 injections.

I live near Montreal, Quebec, Canada if you are in the US i might not be able to refer you to a good prolotherapist, if you do live in the area try giving caring medication a call, Dr Hauser clinic, also look on youtube for is injection techniques, from what i hear and see they are the best in the US, they are located in Illinois, i was suppose to go see them in September for some treatments but was lucky to find another sport doctor near my home.

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## Callsign

Thanks again! I'm in NY, but travel for a living. I can get anywhere. I'm going to research this some, & give these guys a call. Whats a round about number for prolotherapy? U can pm me if posting an approximate price is not allowed.

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## yannick35

Not sure for caring medication but for me dextrose and xylocaine where around 40$ and the treatment itself was 100$ but keep in mind it was a private clinic, now i am going public so it should be around 60$ since the CC will be a lot more, i used to get injected from 4cc to 12cc with the other moron but my new sport doctor will be around 30CC or more. Insurance does not cover prolotherapy but don't worry it worth the price.

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## Callsign

Cool, i was about to start my next cycle in Oct, but maybe I'll do this 1st & get more from my workouts..

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## mmakid

BJJ all the way

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