# STEROIDS FORUM > HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY- Low T, Anti-Aging >  a new problem while on TRT...SEX!

## bass

my wife and i are almost the same age, 51. normally sex drive at this age slows down for both men and women, but now that i am on TRT we are no match! basically i want it all the time and she doesn't, masturbation is out of the question, i am just not into that! cheating is not even on the map! so what is the solution? BTW she is not supportive of me being on TRT, she thinks i am doing narcotics! LOL, and she is totally against it. so hormones for her is out of the question. now some of us here the wives likes it 2-3 times a day, those are the lucky ones, but for those who are in my situation, how do you deal with it? TRT is a double edge sword!

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## steroid.com 1

Well man, with "masturbation out of the question" (and why, it's totally normal???) you're stuck between a rock and _Hard Place_ (no pun intended :Smilie: )

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## bigbossofdariver

either you get your wife to **** you more often or you masturbate, personally the masturbation option seems much easier.

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## zaggahamma

d ole androgel in da panties stunt

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## bass

> d ole androgel in da panties stunt


hmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

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## zaggahamma

might not taste good...i didnt think that thru

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## steroid.com 1

> either you get your wife to **** you more often or you masturbate, personally the *masturbation option seems much easier*.


Oh how truer words were never spoken!

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## THE-DET-OAK

she could have low T levels

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## lovbyts

start using Nolvadex

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## bass

> might not taste good...i didnt think that thru


lol!

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## GotNoBlueMilk

On a serious note, you could consider lowering your E2 levels some more so you are not so horny. Low E2 kills my libido. For me there is a range where I don't have all the nasty low E2 sides -- joint pain, mental fog, irritable, low energy -- but I don't have nearly as strong of a libido either. I have to admit, it is nice not thinking about sex 24/7 like some teenager.

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## sirupate

Yes, the timing is sort of sub-optimal isn't it? I think I have commented before that now that I'm on TRT, I'm ready to go much more often that I was before TRT. My wife, on the other hand, is in the beginning stages of menopause. I think there must have been 10 years where we weren't in synch at all because of my low-T, and now, her menopause. I'm now thankful for a weekly "encounter". No solutions for you bro. Oh...yeah, if you "gel" her occasionally, she will probably be more cooperative, but I don't know how you do that unless you can figure out a way to do it on the sly.

Learn to enjoy long showers...

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## clemont51

Two most overrated things; home screwing and Virginia ham.

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## GotNoBlueMilk

well . . . Virginia ham, yes.

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## JohnnyVegas

I have the same problem. My wife is 10 years younger than I am, but working full time and getting her MBA...I give her a pass. She is exhausted and burned out more than she is "not horny." Still, I have learned patience...and take care of it myself on occasion.

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## Termin8r27

Man that is unfortunate, but I understand how she feels about the TRT - the media and most of US culture isn't very supportive of actually fixing the health problems. =/

Hopefully over time she will see the positive changes in you and you can continue to share research and publications on the benefits of Anti Aging therapy and she will come around. We're younger (my wife and I) but it took her quite a few months to come around more and understand. She is now a huge supportver of AA and would even love to eventually work at a clinic and help spread the word any way she can. We found out she has a genetic progesterone problem and very low T. I can tell you and so can she, that her life has really turned around already and she's still in the tweaking phase as she's only been 'on' for about 2.5 Months.

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## sirupate

> Man that is unfortunate, but I understand how she feels about the TRT - the media and most of US culture isn't very supportive of actually fixing the health problems. =/
> 
> Hopefully over time she will see the positive changes in you and you can continue to share research and publications on the benefits of Anti Aging therapy and she will come around. We're younger (my wife and I) but it took her quite a few months to come around more and understand. She is now a huge supportver of AA and would even love to eventually work at a clinic and help spread the word any way she can. We found out she has a genetic progesterone problem and very low T. I can tell you and so can she, that her life has really turned around already and she's still in the tweaking phase as she's only been 'on' for about 2.5 Months.


Maybe I missed it, but what is your wife on, amount and frequency. I bet lots of women would love to know this...well, men too (for their wives).

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## flatscat

The other thing you have to consider if your situation is/was anything like mine is this - 

I have been married for about 11 years. I think we had a pretty good sex life for maybe the two years we dated and maybe another year after that. Then the babies came, and then I think my low t started (not because of the bambino's, lol). So, for prolly 6 or seven years she dealt with MY low sex drive and kinda either got used to it or decided that was just how it was going to be (or had a Sancho). I really didnt even notice (kinda like the fat that was piling on my gut). Now all of a sudden I am like a teenager again - wanting it ALL the time. It kinda pissed her off at first. And, like your wife, she said it was ALL because of what I was injecting myself with.

Fast forward to today - she understands now that my hormone levels were wacked and she knows I actually need the t now. She has seen the change in my body (and likes it), she sees other women looking and flirting with me (and i think likes that too), she knows that I could have most of those women if I wanted but choose to stay with her. 

Now I am not saying that I get it near as much as I want, but I am getting it a lot more than I was for the first 6-8 months of being on trt. Most females prolly need a good amount of time to go from where they were to where you want them to be. 

Give it some time - let her see how it has changed not only your body, but your confidence and the way you treat her. Back off the cave man hit her in the head and drag her to the bed talk all the time and let her get to know the new you again.

I must say that my marriage is NOT perfect. We have had to deal with several issues along the way that were related to my old sluggo self. But, at the end of the day, the new me is way better than the old me (even before we were married) and she is coming around.

Best of luck bro and hope this helps.

Flats

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## Termin8r27

> Maybe I missed it, but what is your wife on, amount and frequency. I bet lots of women would love to know this...well, men too (for their wives).


She's on this board every once in a while and I can get her to post up again but she's currently 32 and on:
Progesterone during days 14-28 of her cycle
Testosterone cream split into two doses per day
Thyroid of 2.5 grain everyday
DHEA 25mg about every other day right now (she was everyday, but it seemed to be converting to too much DHT and we've backed it off)

She's also on an assortment of ancillary supplements for general health and also competes in figure for fun more or less.

We have two children that are 5 and 2.5 and we've been together about 11 Years. We've always been physically active, have Exercise Science degrees and have been into bodybuilding more or less most of our adult lives (for fun). When I discovered my problem(s) she was a bit skepticle, but supportive. My mentality, behavior, body composition, etc started to change quite noticably over the first 6-9 months and we started to think more about her probable issues and challenges. She just didn't have much of a sex drive anymore, its been harder gaining muscle and staying 'in shape' and just having any energy.
She went to go see an AA Clinic here in Austin that I originally was working with and its been great. She most likely has PCOS (polycycstic ovarian syndrome) and even though her baseline thyroid #'s were normal the clinic showed her that many women with PCOS and family history of thyroid issues can still have a problem (hence the thyroid med's).

As I stated earlier, we're still tweaking and running bloodwork...its only been about 3 months, but she's already seen huge improvements. Bedroom time is one of them and it can be glorious! =) Her SHBG is still high and I think over the next few months things are really going to 'settle' in her body and she'll get in a good groove.

I hope that helps!




> The other thing you have to consider if your situation is/was anything like mine is this - 
> 
> I have been married for about 11 years. I think we had a pretty good sex life for maybe the two years we dated and maybe another year after that. Then the babies came, and then I think my low t started (not because of the bambino's, lol). So, for prolly 6 or seven years she dealt with MY low sex drive and kinda either got used to it or decided that was just how it was going to be (or had a Sancho). I really didnt even notice (kinda like the fat that was piling on my gut). Now all of a sudden I am like a teenager again - wanting it ALL the time. It kinda pissed her off at first. And, like your wife, she said it was ALL because of what I was injecting myself with.
> 
> Fast forward to today - she understands now that my hormone levels were wacked and she knows I actually need the t now. She has seen the change in my body (and likes it), she sees other women looking and flirting with me (and i think likes that too), she knows that I could have most of those women if I wanted but choose to stay with her. 
> 
> Now I am not saying that I get it near as much as I want, but I am getting it a lot more than I was for the first 6-8 months of being on trt. Most females prolly need a good amount of time to go from where they were to where you want them to be. 
> 
> Give it some time - let her see how it has changed not only your body, but your confidence and the way you treat her. Back off the cave man hit her in the head and drag her to the bed talk all the time and let her get to know the new you again.
> ...


A lot of similiarities here for me too and great advice! Use your newfound confidence and mental clarity to 'date' her and get back to the way things 'used to be' back in the day.

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## bass

hey thanks guys for all the responses! flats i hear you bro! i try not overwhelm her and be pushy, we've been married for almost 25 years and have many children, we are very committed and in love, so i try to put her first in everything. your stories are inspiring because you didn't give up and you were willing to change your lives for your wives, thats awesome!

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## flatscat

how did you know I had more than one???????

lmfao

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## bass

haha...i meant you and the other guys who had similar stories!

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## APIs

Oh, please. Dont you realize women are just plain crazy? They always need something to complain about & sex is no different. My girl has always loved sex, but once in awhile she'll spout some crap about not being able to keep up with me and how she works & commutes too many hours to have sex all the time. Or how my need to boink all the time is screwing up our relationship. So then we'll take two days off & before long she's jumping on my face again. Dont you understand? We as men just cannot win...

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## zaggahamma

young freak(s)

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## bass

> Oh, please. Dont you realize women are just plain crazy? They always need something to complain about & sex is no different. My girl has always loved sex, but once in awhile she'll spout some crap about not being able to keep up with me and how she works & commutes too many hours to have sex all the time. Or how my need to boink all the time is screwing up our relationship. So then we'll take two days off & before long she's jumping on my face again. Dont you understand? We as men just cannot win...


well, its been 3 days and no jumping on my face yet! trying to stay busy doing work around the house until the time comes! damn i think i wont last more than 2 seconds!

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## zaggahamma

> well, its been 3 days and no jumping on my face yet! trying to stay busy doing work around the house until the time comes! damn i think i wont last more than 2 seconds!


pull her into the cave bro

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## bass

i am much better today!  :Wink: 

its probably my fault, i have her on a strict diet, no starchy carbs with one cheat day a week, so low sugar diet might be working against me!

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## SlimmerMe

Foot rubs 
Sweet words
Hugging for more than a minute with no expectations
Doing a chore without being reminded
Complimenting something very specific like the color of nail polish
LISTENING
Bringing home a thoughtful gift even if just a fresh wildflower
Paying attention
Making her feel SPECIAL......

THAT SHOULD HELP FELLAS........

Let me know........

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## bass

> Foot rubs 
> Sweet words
> Hugging for more than a minute with no expectations
> Doing a chore without being reminded
> Complimenting something very specific like the color of nail polish
> LISTENING
> Bringing home a thoughtful gift even if just a fresh wildflower
> Paying attention
> Making her feel SPECIAL......
> ...


words of wisdom coming from a female, how can we go wrong! thanks for the tip Slimmer!

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## SlimmerMe

^^^ you are welcome. And I bet if all the above are done within a 24 hour time frame? BINGO!

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## zaggahamma

still nuttin go tell cheetah to go out and play

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## bass

no it was BINGO night for me yesterday! and i feel lucky today too!

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## boundup

Buy a flesh-light? Heard good things... hehe.

While I have always had a healthy appetite despite being low on T, I did find that my sex drive hasn't _increased_ so much as it has _changed_. Before it was like "Yay, boobies. Hit it, hit it harder, grab boobies, hit it harder than finish."

Now that I am on TRT, it's the pull her hair, grab her ass, smash her into the headboard type sex; a complete change for me. I guess what has worked for me is that I don't mention sex to her. I just focus on the animalistic passion associated with it. The looks, stares etc. Maybe you're too vocal about it?

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## bass

> Buy a flesh-light? Heard good things... hehe.
> 
> While I have always had a healthy appetite despite being low on T, I did find that my sex drive hasn't _increased_ so much as it has _changed_. Before it was like "Yay, boobies. Hit it, hit it harder, grab boobies, hit it harder than finish."
> 
> Now that I am on TRT, it's the pull her hair, grab her ass, smash her into the headboard type sex; a complete change for me. I guess what has worked for me is that I don't mention sex to her. I just focus on the animalistic passion associated with it. The looks, stares etc. Maybe you're too vocal about it?


dude, if i take your approach I'll never have sex! LOL!

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## streeter

I didn't read the entire thread because I am being lazy today but my wife started Bio Identical hormone cream and her sex drive has increased a bunch almost matches mine now. I am 46 she is 47.

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## PPC

OP, does your wife know of some of the health benefits of sex and semen itself? The vaginal walls are one of the most absorbent areas of a female body and semen gives women a shot of incredible goodies that are absorbed directly into the blood stream. Sex is a perfect give and take because we really need what our mates have to offer health wise via ejaculation. Semen is a health promoter and mood brightener like no other. There is also evidence a woman can recieve these benefits via oral too.

Your ejaculation is loaded with zinc, which helps to build your wive's immune system. It has high amounts of vitamin C and B12 which nourish her adrenal glands and promote better energy and ability to fight disease. It contains three major cancer fighting agents. The first two are selenium and glyco proteins. The third is TGR beta (transforming growth factor beta), a molecule that can increase the number and activity of 'natural killer' cells in her body. These killer cells recoginze and fight cells that promote tumors. 

A study at the STate University of New York suggests that semen acts as an antidepressant for women. The study showed that women who had sex without condoms, had fewer signs of depression than women who used condoms or abstained from sex. Semen also has nutrients to plump skin and strengthen hair.

But it's not just semen. The act of sex itself in women releases small amounts of HGH to increase lean muscle, prevent skin sagging and promote energy. Here's the biggie, sex gives women a five fold elevated release of oxytocin. That hormone promotes bonding with you, it fights stress, depression and anxiety. Studies looking at the benefits of oxytocin report that it reduces 'neurotic tendencies.' 

Another benefit of sex for females. It releases more healthy estrogen to plump up the vagina and tone fights incontinence and vaginal dryness. Women who have dry vaginas should actually have more sex. More sex triggers more estrogen which also has been studied to increase feelings of 'flirtiness' in females. Long dry spells can actually lower desire in women while more frequent sex generally raises desire by promoting more positive feedback loops with estrogen and oxytocin.

Would your wife read a few of these benefits? There are many more but my fingers are running out of steam here. If horniness is dampened from the business of life, then health benefits alone are a good reason to have more sex. Usually, if one allows themselves to start...the deisre will come. It doesn't have to be there at first for us to still end up having a great time.

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## zaggahamma

> OP, does your wife know of some of the health benefits of sex and semen itself? The vaginal walls are one of the most absorbent areas of a female body and semen gives women a shot of incredible goodies that are absorbed directly into the blood stream. Sex is a perfect give and take because we really need what our mates have to offer health wise via ejaculation. Semen is a health promoter and mood brightener like no other. There is also evidence a woman can recieve these benefits via oral too.
> 
> Your ejaculation is loaded with zinc, which helps to build your wive's immune system. It has high amounts of vitamin C and B12 which nourish her adrenal glands and promote better energy and ability to fight disease. It contains three major cancer fighting agents. The first two are selenium and glyco proteins. The third is TGR beta (transforming growth factor beta), a molecule that can increase the number and activity of 'natural killer' cells in her body. These killer cells recoginze and fight cells that promote tumors. 
> 
> A study at the STate University of New York suggests that semen acts as an antidepressant for women. The study showed that women who had sex without condoms, had fewer signs of depression than women who used condoms or abstained from sex. Semen also has nutrients to plump skin and strengthen hair.
> 
> But it's not just semen. The act of sex itself in women releases small amounts of HGH to increase lean muscle, prevent skin sagging and promote energy. Here's the biggie, sex gives women a five fold elevated release of oxytocin. That hormone promotes bonding with you, it fights stress, depression and anxiety. Studies looking at the benefits of oxytocin report that it reduces 'neurotic tendencies.' 
> 
> Another benefit of sex for females. It releases more healthy estrogen to plump up the vagina and tone fights incontinence and vaginal dryness. Women who have dry vaginas should actually have more sex. More sex triggers more estrogen which also has been studied to increase feelings of 'flirtiness' in females. Long dry spells can actually lower desire in women while more frequent sex generally raises desire by promoting more positive feedback loops with estrogen and oxytocin.
> ...


beautiful  :Smilie:

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## SlimmerMe

SHE'S BACK!!! PPC!!! Please come around more often!

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## bass

> OP, does your wife know of some of the health benefits of sex and semen itself? The vaginal walls are one of the most absorbent areas of a female body and semen gives women a shot of incredible goodies that are absorbed directly into the blood stream. Sex is a perfect give and take because we really need what our mates have to offer health wise via ejaculation. Semen is a health promoter and mood brightener like no other. There is also evidence a woman can recieve these benefits via oral too.
> 
> Your ejaculation is loaded with zinc, which helps to build your wive's immune system. It has high amounts of vitamin C and B12 which nourish her adrenal glands and promote better energy and ability to fight disease. It contains three major cancer fighting agents. The first two are selenium and glyco proteins. The third is TGR beta (transforming growth factor beta), a molecule that can increase the number and activity of 'natural killer' cells in her body. These killer cells recoginze and fight cells that promote tumors. 
> 
> A study at the STate University of New York suggests that semen acts as an antidepressant for women. The study showed that women who had sex without condoms, had fewer signs of depression than women who used condoms or abstained from sex. Semen also has nutrients to plump skin and strengthen hair.
> 
> But it's not just semen. The act of sex itself in women releases small amounts of HGH to increase lean muscle, prevent skin sagging and promote energy. Here's the biggie, sex gives women a five fold elevated release of oxytocin. That hormone promotes bonding with you, it fights stress, depression and anxiety. Studies looking at the benefits of oxytocin report that it reduces 'neurotic tendencies.' 
> 
> Another benefit of sex for females. It releases more healthy estrogen to plump up the vagina and tone fights incontinence and vaginal dryness. Women who have dry vaginas should actually have more sex. More sex triggers more estrogen which also has been studied to increase feelings of 'flirtiness' in females. Long dry spells can actually lower desire in women while more frequent sex generally raises desire by promoting more positive feedback loops with estrogen and oxytocin.
> ...


WOW! PPC will you marry me PLEASE?! LOL! i will definitely have her read this! now where did you get your info from? a scientific source would be more convincing to here. but you said some thing that has allot of validity to it, she always feels great after we have sex and she says "why do i stay away from sex for too long?!"

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## PPC

> SHE'S BACK!!! PPC!!! Please come around more often!


Wow...I am loving your avi. Too cool. I may have some more time now to drop by. Good to see you again too.

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## PPC

> WOW! PPC will you marry me PLEASE?! LOL! i will definitely have her read this! now where did you get your info from? a scientific source would be more convincing to here. but you said some thing that has allot of validity to it, she always feels great after we have sex and she says "why do i stay away from sex for too long?!"


Well, if I married you we'd have to head to some commune in Utah and I'd have to be okay with being 'second wife.' But we could make some money off the TV show right? Of course my husband would miss me.

Here's a link to some studies on semen. It's a strange site but does have some good info...beware there are some links to porn although the site itself is not pornographic...just sayin.

http://sementherapy.com/adult/index.htm#3

Don't make me leaf through all my books to back myself up. That's cruel to a lazy person LOL. I just compiled info from my library here on sexuality, hormones and such. I believe you could google and find many studies to present to your wife.

How about this for more food for thought for your wife...and pardon the pun. Us females actually need breast play. The more touching, suckling etc that we can get the more protected our breasts will be. There is much evidence that breast feeding babies protect us from cancer but it's not just babies that help us out here. According to Dr Halid Mahmud, author of the book, 'Keeping A Breast: Ways To Stop Breast Cancer,' nipple and breast stimulation from our mates is just as important. He says, "If people would have their breasts stimulated and massaged regularly...there is actually scientific evidence that it increases the secretion of oxytocin, which not only helps remove pent up secretions from the breast ducts, but also fights breast cancer in several ways."

Dr Mahmud goes on to explain that fluid in the breast ducts become stagnant, the contents break down and release free radicals. The job of these free radicals is to cause DNA damage to the cells....which can lead to abnormalities. He says,...."That is why I stress breast massage and nipple stimulation to keep the fluid moving."

So that's another good reason for women get sexual. Our breasts were not supposed to sit still all day in underwire bras and then stay all alone under 'Do Not Remove' PJ's all night. They are supposed to be 'touched and more' a lot. The fact that most men find them alluring has both purpose and pleasure. We need the stimulation they want to give. Pretty perfect plan there.

But similarly, Sex protects the prostate from inflammation and cancer. You might be familiar with the Harvard study that showed that men who had twenty monthly ejaculations were 1/3 less likely to develop prostate cancer than men who had lower frequencies. Much like the situation I described with stagnant breast fluid, the prostate can be vulnerable to a buildup of cancer causing compounds. Sex flushes out the accumulation of these compounds, essentially cleaning the pipes. Some researchers theorize that sex releases psychological tension that quiets the nervous system, which when agitiated may contribute to cell division and cancer growth.

20 ejaculations = 5 times a week. Okay so that's a loftly goal for some of us who are married with children. But it's a good goal to shoot for. Hopefully your wife won't feel manipulated if you tell her you need it 5 times! Consensus seems to be that anything less than 2 ejaculations a week for men can lead to this inflammation. So maybe between 2-5 times is a good frequency. Just musing here.

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## leewil1

My wife would take flowers over semen any day, lol. Seriously though flowers once in a while does wonders, her response to them actually staggers me, funny creatures women, lol

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## APIs

> My wife would take flowers over semen any day, lol. Seriously though flowers once in a while does wonders, her response to them actually staggers me, funny creatures women, lol


Yeah, they have the same reaction upon viewing a new car too. Anything purchased usually will work...

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## flatscat

I just ate a ton of garlic yesterday - think that will help????????????????????????????

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## PPC

> I just ate a ton of garlic yesterday - think that will help????????????????????????????


Help with her wanting it? Probably not. But yeah, it might push the potency up a bit. Guess she could just eat her own garlic.

I'm not pushing what that site advocates. Swallowing three times a week is not neccessary to get the benefits of semen and I don't make that a part of my weekly challenge. The creators of that site probably have some motives other than just offering information on the health aspects of semen. Still, they can't be ignored. As mentioned, the vaginal walls absorb well into the bloodstream. But swallowing has benefits too and I think a little of both vaginal and oral is good.

I know it sounds strange, but I hold my husband's semen in high regard. Why pay ridiculous dollars for a health tonic at a store when I have one at home here for free? I just think there would be a lot more sex going on if more women had the bigger picture of what sex can offer them healthwise....and how it can also protect their husband's health. Hey...if women would just look at the exercise aspects of sex...about 220 calories burned...that's pretty darned good...and it's a lot more fun than the treadmill or weights. But I imagine that depends on how vigorous one gets.

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## brad1986

> Oh, please. Dont you realize women are just plain crazy? They always need something to complain about & sex is no different. My girl has always loved sex, but once in awhile she'll spout some crap about not being able to keep up with me and how she works & commutes too many hours to have sex all the time. Or how my need to boink all the time is screwing up our relationship. So then we'll take two days off & before long she's jumping on my face again. Dont you understand? We as men just cannot win...


Amen

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## GotNoBlueMilk

Interesting post PPC. My wife has alwasys seemed much happier when we are having lots of sex, and much less happy when we don't. I always assumed it had everything to do with her loving sex. I'll have to rethink this now.

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## leewil1

i never realised that lying on your back and thinking of England whilst being pounded burnt so many calories, add to that a shot of health affirming chemicals and that as to be one of natures greatest bargains. Shell never be able to refuse again :7up:

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## PPC

> Interesting post PPC. My wife has alwasys seemed much happier when we are having lots of sex, and much less happy when we don't. I always assumed it had everything to do with her loving sex. I'll have to rethink this now.


Absolutely! I did not even mention the raise in endorphins during sex and orgasm. This too plays a huge role in emotional well being. We all know endorphins have a morphine like effect in the body. They create that feeling of a 'high' or pure happiness. Sex is big endorphin spiker.

For me personally, my husband now knows that if I am getting gloomy, whether I'm really in the mood or not...I need sex. He'll remind me....and it works. I don't think I'm that strange. The 'estrogen' effect of sex cannot be underplayed. Estrogen is our happy hormone. What are we like when it dips right before our periods...horrible to be around! We try to get the serotonin effect that estrogen naturally gives us by seeking out chocolate etc...but we're much better off having sex for a little estrogen/serotonin bump. Working off calories that way, not gaining them.

It also works the other way...if my husband is getting grumpy and is stressed. I know what he needs even if he doesn't. Married couples need to learn tolook after each other this way. We didn't start out this way. At first we always relied on feeling the honry itch to want to come together. But if you always end up relying on that....sex will fizzle out. I'm now of the opinion that married sex needs to be a habit not so much a consequence of desire. Sure we'll still feel desire for one another and lust comes into it...but that' can't be relied upon constantly for a hot, flourishing sex life.

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## zaggahamma

> Help with her wanting it? Probably not. But yeah, it might push the potency up a bit. Guess she could just eat her own garlic.
> 
> I'm not pushing what that site advocates. Swallowing three times a week is not neccessary to get the benefits of semen and I don't make that a part of my weekly challenge. The creators of that site probably have some motives other than just offering information on the health aspects of semen. Still, they can't be ignored. As mentioned, the vaginal walls absorb well into the bloodstream. But swallowing has benefits too and I think a little of both vaginal and oral is good.
> 
> I know it sounds strange, but I hold my husband's semen in high regard. Why pay ridiculous dollars for a health tonic at a store when I have one at home here for free? I just think there would be a lot more sex going on if more women had the bigger picture of what sex can offer them healthwise....and how it can also protect their husband's health. Hey...if women would just look at the exercise aspects of sex...about 220 calories burned...that's pretty darned good...and it's a lot more fun than the treadmill or weights. But I imagine that depends on how vigorous one gets.


please put your GOP nomination in ....our country could use a good female leader that obviously thinks perfectly clear

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## zaggahamma

bass you look jacked....great work bro

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## PPC

> i never realised that lying on your back and thinking of England whilst being pounded burnt so many calories, add to that a shot of health affirming chemicals and that as to be one of natures greatest bargains. Shell never be able to refuse again


Even if she's just lying on her back, she still has to tense her way up to orgasm. yep, it is a good bargain. Now, if she's thinking of England, well I doubt she'll get there....to orgasm. 

The state of arousal caused by sex raises the average person's heartbeat from an average of 70 beats per minute to 150. That is about the same as an athelete putting out a good performance. I know I'm not backing myself up here with documentation but it's pretty easy to find. Just conversing.

----------


## SlimmerMe

PPC: anything these guys could advise for their ladies other than BHRT? some do not want to take it. Is there something they could suggest the girl to take to help "get in the mood" chemically which would not effect the gals who do not want bhrt? other than seduction.

----------


## PPC

> PPC: anything these guys could advise for their ladies other than BHRT? some do not want to take it. Is there something they could suggest the girl to take to help "get in the mood" chemically which would not effect the gals who do not want bhrt? other than seduction.


Good question. DHEA...but that's been discussed a lot. Doesn't work for every woman but some women can really get a libido spike out of it. I know it boosts mine. As far as taking something, I think that's never going to work without heart/attitude changes.

A fantastic book that really focuses well on this subject is Dr Laura's. 'The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands.' It doesn't get into the health beneifts of sex as we have been discussing here but rather the mindset of why not.

It's all about priorities. So many of us women will give others our time. We'll invest our efforts and creativity into hobbies, work, friends, children....but think it's too much effor to give our husbands 20m of enthusiastic time in bed. We think it's okay to avoid, rebuff and refuse our partners and they should still be a happy and helpful guy around the house. Dr Laura speaks up, (not so politically correctly,) that this is infact not okay. He might stay happy and helpful for a while but in the end, he'll be bitter and full of regret. Often women will not even allow themselves to be seduced so husband's are stuck and give up trying. It can work the other way sometimes gender wise but not quite as often.

It's hard to change someone else's mindset. It usually doesn't work for a man to throw a book at his wife and say 'you need to read this' or 'you need my semen to help cheer you up.' I'd be better off speaking to the wives, but that's all in my book...ha..ha.

I do challenge all my friends to spend time thinking creatively about giving their husbands two seductions a week. Whatever he initiates after that is just gravy, the more the merrier. I want to say this: What's so hard about sex that it has to be a chore? Another thing at the bottom of our lists we get to now and then? Sex, especially married, commited sex is fun, healthy, natural, good for us, bonding, antidepressant, ego boosting (we usually get a lot of compliments during)...the list goes on. I think females just go too long and start forgetting how awesome it is. Or they use it as control to get what they want. Either way, both them and their partners are missing out on such a good thing.

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## SlimmerMe

^^^ I agree with this. However...isn't there something? a cream? something? to help? Some women need to catch up to all of the hormones these guys are taking to level the playing field a bit with hormones. And if the gals are not willing to take Bhrt then there has got to be something else other than Dhea....something. I know you have a secret potion.

----------


## PPC

> ^^^ I agree with this. However...isn't there something? a cream? something? to help? Some women need to catch up to all of the hormones these guys are taking to level the playing field a bit with hormones. And if the gals are not willing to take Bhrt then there has got to be something else other than Dhea....something. I know you have a secret potion.


You and I come up with one and we'll be billionaires. 

Are these guys really over horny? Dunno that I'm reading that. But you get to read here a lot more than I. Maybe the young ones are over at the steroid forums but I think here in HRT...these are just guys wanting pretty frequent sex. They just don't want to be in a famine or have to keep wondering when their next sex meal is coming.

Truly, I wish there was a secret potion. Less stress is a biggie. I think we all take on too much and try to be Super women. I'd rather wipe my calander clean and have a great sex life than be running from here to there exhausting myself.

Other than low strength T gel if T is low or E cream if the vagina is not plump and juicy...I don't know. Wish I did. So much of sex is in the mind, especially for women since we don't have the obvious erection to guage how much we want it. I think training our minds to be sexual, dressing sexually for our partners, grooming for sexuality etc...these help to put us in a mindset that says...I am a sexual person. We impliment practical things and then our mind and body can catch on. I wish there was an 'easy pill.' But the things that are worth it are so often hard won. We gotta put the effort in.

As much as I enjoy sex myself, I don't think I'd be up to 3 times a day. Maybe now and then. I'm good with 3-6 times a week. I could be wrong on how much these guys want it. They could chime in on that.

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## bass

man this thread is turning into rated XXX! LOL. hey thanks for your reply PPC! you have a very lucky husband! 

Thanks everyone for your input, and thank you JP for the complement! i work very hard at the gym, and still have a long ways to go to reach my goal! the avi was taking right after my biceps and back workout, the next day i got deflated! still have lots of fat!

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## bass

> please put your GOP nomination in ....our country could use a good female leader that obviously thinks perfectly clear


sign me up too!

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## meathead320

If the woman in your life, Wife, GF etc... is not responsive to your sexual advances, assuming she does NOT have a hormonal imbalance (in which she will NEED to have that corrected first obviously), then the issue is YOU.

In other words, if she is healthy, but not getting in the mood, the WORST thing you can do is more approval seeking behavior. 

You need to learn GAME, and it does NOT just apply to getting laid with random women. There is also relationship GAME. It will help you avoid the pitfalls of Beta male behavior, that turns vaginas into airid wastelands. 

Most of the guys here are on TRT, and that means for a long time you HAD been doing a lot of Beta male behaviors due to the low testosterone . You may still be stuck in that pattern. It is often expressed by approval seeking behavior. 

Most women have a justification process, that they use when they are not feeling attracted to a guy. Most often they will SAY he needs to be more emotionaly supportive, affectionate etc... (in other words too MORE approval seeking behavior) Her natural instincts betray her however. There is what she says she want, and what she really means. In truth most of these guys already ARE doing too much of this approval seeking already and that IS the problem. 

Women ARE attracted to dominant alpha male behaviors. Even if they "say" they are not. Its Evolutionary psychology. 

Ever notice how guys that are bossy tend to have hot GF's, Wives, OR lots of women in general? Ever say "how come a**holes always have better luck with women?" Its because the dominant alpha male does NOT seek approval. Women seek HIS. 

What sounds more attractive?

1. "hey honey, I was wondering if you maybe wanted to get something too eat? Where would you like to go? I know you like _________, would you like to eat there tonight?"

vs.

2. "Get your stuff on, we're going out getting dinner". her: "where at?" you "you will find out when we get there, quit asking questions and get ready" - * said confident with smirk and half raised eyebrow *

Now on paper one guy is being sweet nice and considerate, the OTHER is being an aloof cocky bossy jerk. 

Q: Guess which one is getting laid tonight? 

A: Trick Question. 2. had just gotten done banging his girl BEFORE he told her to get her stuff on. 1. Is going to "ask"/"beg" for it later, and she is going to get herself off (after turning him down of course) to a sleezy romance novel about a women falling in love and having hot passionate sex with guess what kind of guy?

Want to learn how to use game, either for the young guy trying to get laid, OR the mature guy with trying to steam up his friggid wife, Game (aka your skills with women) will help, a lot:

http://roissy.wordpress.com/author/roissy/

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## zaggahamma

> If the woman in your life, Wife, GF etc... is not responsive to your sexual advances, assuming she does NOT have a hormonal imbalance (in which she will NEED to have that corrected first obviously), then the issue is YOU.
> 
> In other words, if she is healthy, but not getting in the mood, the WORST thing you can do is more approval seeking behavior. 
> 
> You need to learn GAME, and it does NOT just apply to getting laid with random women. There is also relationship GAME. It will help you avoid the pitfalls of Beta male behavior, that turns vaginas into airid wastelands. 
> 
> Most of the guys here are on TRT, and that means for a long time you HAD been doing a lot of Beta male behaviors due to the low testosterone . You may still be stuck in that pattern. It is often expressed by approval seeking behavior. 
> 
> Most women have a justification process, that they use when they are not feeling attracted to a guy. Most often they will SAY he needs to be more emotionaly supportive, affectionate etc... (in other words too MORE approval seeking behavior) Her natural instincts betray her however. There is what she says she want, and what she really means. In truth most of these guys already ARE doing too much of this approval seeking already and that IS the problem. 
> ...


gooooooooooooooooooooooooood stufffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

man card awarded

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## SlimmerMe

One big reason we like an alpha dog? Keeps us from doing (all) the thinking so we can finally relax! After all males are the positive and females the negative. ie: men are to give while females receive and I am not talking about one giving EVERYTHING while the other sits back and does nothing but it is the nature of positive/negative. So if a male is in charge and providing as in taking charge then we can feel taken care of even with the smallest of details like making a dinner reservation..... which helps us to relax so much more as opposed to being in charge by taking charge. Once we are in charge? not good since then we start bugging the heck out of you!

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## bass

> If the woman in your life, Wife, GF etc... is not responsive to your sexual advances, assuming she does NOT have a hormonal imbalance (in which she will NEED to have that corrected first obviously), then the issue is YOU.
> 
> In other words, if she is healthy, but not getting in the mood, the WORST thing you can do is more approval seeking behavior. 
> 
> You need to learn GAME, and it does NOT just apply to getting laid with random women. There is also relationship GAME. It will help you avoid the pitfalls of Beta male behavior, that turns vaginas into airid wastelands. 
> 
> Most of the guys here are on TRT, and that means for a long time you HAD been doing a lot of Beta male behaviors due to the low testosterone . You may still be stuck in that pattern. It is often expressed by approval seeking behavior. 
> 
> Most women have a justification process, that they use when they are not feeling attracted to a guy. Most often they will SAY he needs to be more emotionaly supportive, affectionate etc... (in other words too MORE approval seeking behavior) Her natural instincts betray her however. There is what she says she want, and what she really means. In truth most of these guys already ARE doing too much of this approval seeking already and that IS the problem. 
> ...


i agree! but like i said my wife and i are very much in love and we are always together doing stuff, she never says no for anything I ask. the problem is that she thinks TRT is like doing narcotics and she is turned off by it, so she blames everything on TRT even though before TRT we had sex spontaneously, anytime anywhere we felt like doing it, almost on a daily basis, so the relation communication as you call it (game) is not the problem, its more of what she thinks of TRT. i told her all about the benefits of TRT including libido, and that’s why she thinks every time I am horney its because of TRT, and therefore get turned off because she has not approved of TRT yet! but don't get me wrong, she is very much in love with me and she is more scared for me being on TRT than anything else, she thinks the TRT will eventually kill me! Now reading all the responses it actually opened my eyes to see where the problem is, its me not educating her properly on TRT! but its all good, we are still having sex on a regular basis. And yes she is the type that likes rugged looking men not girly men!  :Smilie:

----------


## boundup

I see where you're coming from. My current girlfriend is blissfully unaware and just knows that 'as long as I feel good' then she doesn't care. She thinks it's kind of cool since all the guys in our age bracket are fat, beer belly, lazy ****s that have no motivation. I can certainly see and understand where she is coming from... have you asked her why she feels that way? Is it just the negative connotation associated with needles and 'steroids '.

----------


## bass

> I see where you're coming from. My current girlfriend is blissfully unaware and just knows that 'as long as I feel good' then she doesn't care. She thinks it's kind of cool since all the guys in our age bracket are fat, beer belly, lazy ****s that have no motivation. I can certainly see and understand where she is coming from... have you asked her why she feels that way? Is it just the negative connotation associated with needles and 'steroids'.


yes i have asked her why, she thinks its like narcotics, her answers was something like "just the fact you are sticking needles in you its not right" i even gave her the example about the people with diabetes who inject themselves everyday, and her reply was "but thats different, they have a disease and you don't" but in time i think i can help her understand it better and hopefully she'll accept it! one thing for sure though, she likes how i look now as apposed to a fat-ass beer belly and old looking looser!

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## meathead320

Hmmm.... Well here is what I say to GF's. Now, PART of this is a little WHITE lie. It works, and they do not question it, because it sounds so scientific. I explain it like this, or a version of it:

_"look, its not a narcotic, this is a human hormone, no different than a woman taking estrogen to feel younger, or even birth control pills. Testosterone is so chemically close to estrogen it only has a 2 carbon bond difference. Anabolic steroids are made FROM testosterone, they are chemically altered to make them unnaturally potent, testosterone is only legaly classified as one because it can also bost athletic performance at high doses, but what I take is just enough to make me feel and have the health of a younger man. This is the human version of the hormone."_  

If they ask "why do you need to take shots then? Why not pills, I've heard they have creams too".

Then I give this answer _"because if you take it oraly then your liver breaks it down, and if you alter it to survive the liver, then it would be bad for the liver. As far as the creams go, they cost a lot more, AND it runs the risk of getting on YOU too, you wouldn't want to grow a beard right?"_

Now I admit here, and only here, some of that is bull. We know after all that testosterone IS an androgenic anabolic steroid , BUT due to all the missinformation, and tons of outright lies about AAS out there, when it comes to a loved one being paranoid, I'm willing to fudge that when explaining it to them. Its just to get them to stop worrying about it, and to treat it like a medication, which it IS.

----------


## bass

> Hmmm.... Well here is what I say to GF's. Now, PART of this is a little WHITE lie. It works, and they do not question it, because it sounds so scientific. I explain it like this, or a version of it:
> 
> _"look, its not a narcotic, this is a human hormone, no different than a woman taking estrogen to feel younger, or even birth control pills. Testosterone is so chemically close to estrogen it only has a 2 carbon bond difference. Anabolic steroids are made FROM testosterone, they are chemically altered to make them unnaturally potent, testosterone is only legaly classified as one because it can also bost athletic performance at high doses, but what I take is just enough to make me feel and have the health of a younger man. This is the human version of the hormone."_  
> 
> If they ask "why do you need to take shots then? Why not pills, I've heard they have creams too".
> 
> Then I give this answer _"because if you take it oraly then your liver breaks it down, and if you alter it to survive the liver, then it would be bad for the liver. As far as the creams go, they cost a lot more, AND it runs the risk of getting on YOU too, you wouldn't want to grow a beard right?"_
> 
> Now I admit here, and only here, some of that is bull. We know after all that testosterone IS an androgenic anabolic steroid, BUT due to all the missinformation, and tons of outright lies about AAS out there, when it comes to a loved one being paranoid, I'm willing to fudge that when explaining it to them. Its just to get them to stop worrying about it, and to treat it like a medication, which it IS.


thanks for the advice, but i have explained all you have mentioned already! but I'll keep working on it and eventually she'll come around! i believe when the time comes when she starts to feel achy and old but at the same time looks at me looking young and strong, she'll get the point!

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## zaggahamma

yes same way i explain what it is...i guess it all depends on whos listening to it...bass, might just be something she may want a little leverage with....but like you said she's still into you or maybe i have that backwards...either way all good

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## bass

> yes same way i explain what it is...i guess it all depends on whos listening to it...bass, might just be something she may want a little leverage with....but like you said she's still into you or maybe i have that backwards...either way all good


yes definitely backwoods! LOL!

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## flatscat

i think ppc needs to hold a class for most of our wives. Geeze. talk about good stuff!

meathead, 

While I agree about your get game comment, when you are married with kids, and for more than a couple of years, things do get a little more complicated vs an uncommitted relationship. And like I said, if you have been a slug for a long time, it is going to take more than game to get her where you want her to be. Start with the cocky crap all of a sudden and you prolly will do more harm than good, imho. One of the problems some have to overcome is the wifie thinking that it is ONLY the t making you horny and an ALPHA male. When in reality it is her turning you on and the t is allowing you to react normally. And, if your personality is not to be an alpha male to begin with, you will fail miserably if you have to try to be one. 

Bass, like JP said - you look great! You and yours are gonna be fine!

----------


## NOSUPERMODEL

I honestly think it will work out for you in the end, but do you think in anyway she is seeing changes in you (attitude, muscles, confidence, etc...) and somewhere in the back of her mind she is thinking you might leave for a younger woman or that other women will be looking at you more now. I don't know just a guess. Some women are very jealous no matter how great the relationship and love is between the two.

But I do think everything will work itself out.

----------


## bass

> i think ppc needs to hold a class for most of our wives. Geeze. talk about good stuff!
> 
> meathead, 
> 
> While I agree about your get game comment, when you are married with kids, and for more than a couple of years, things do get a little more complicated vs an uncommitted relationship. And like I said, if you have been a slug for a long time, it is going to take more than game to get her where you want her to be. Start with the cocky crap all of a sudden and you prolly will do more harm than good, imho. One of the problems some have to overcome is the wifie thinking that it is ONLY the t making you horny and an ALPHA male. When in reality it is her turning you on and the t is allowing you to react normally. And, if your personality is not to be an alpha male to begin with, you will fail miserably if you have to try to be one. 
> 
> Bass, like JP said - you look great! You and yours are gonna be fine!


well said Flats and thanks for the complement!

----------


## bass

> I honestly think it will work out for you in the end, but do you think in anyway she is seeing changes in you (attitude, muscles, confidence, etc...) and somewhere in the back of her mind she is thinking you might leave for a younger woman or that other women will be looking at you more now. I don't know just a guess. Some women are very jealous no matter how great the relationship and love is between the two.
> 
> But I do think everything will work itself out.


good point, but i don't think so! she is really more worried about my health than anything else. i agree, at the end it will all work out!

----------


## PPC

> i think ppc needs to hold a class for most of our wives. Geeze. talk about good stuff!
> 
> meathead, 
> 
> While I agree about your get game comment, when you are married with kids, and for more than a couple of years, things do get a little more complicated vs an uncommitted relationship. And like I said, if you have been a slug for a long time, it is going to take more than game to get her where you want her to be. Start with the cocky crap all of a sudden and you prolly will do more harm than good, imho. One of the problems some have to overcome is the wifie thinking that it is ONLY the t making you horny and an ALPHA male. When in reality it is her turning you on and the t is allowing you to react normally. And, if your personality is not to be an alpha male to begin with, you will fail miserably if you have to try to be one. 
> 
> Bass, like JP said - you look great! You and yours are gonna be fine!


I see some of the aggresive alpha male thing holding some validity. For some women it may even work for a while....and yeah I see the hotness in being told what to do now and then. It could spurn a lust like reaction if done well, but lust can't be relied on. Usually one parter will have a much lesser capacity to lust than the other partner...usually (not always) the lower capacity partner is the woman. The lust simply gets all used up and nothing really can jumpstart it when it's gone. 

That's why I think it has to get beyond 'desire' or 'lust' for the lower desire parter and become a mindset, an informed decision and lifestyle attitude to say 'yes' to sex or to habitually initiate. The feelings can follow once you get down to enthusiastic business.

Like SlimmerMe, I hate making decisions and like to be just 'told' now and then. I kinda like the 'game' idea described by Meathead to be honest, but if that's the way it always was...it would get old pretty soon. When you are ten - twenty years into a marriage, can't see that always working. Some women feel loved when their mate does things for them. They are 'deed' driven. I doubt the 'game' thing would work as well for them. Having said that, deed driven women may still not put out when they believe they hold all the cards. Their husbands may do dishes, help with the kids, rub their necks and these women are still like...'Thanks honey...I'm tired, think I'll just go to sleep now...you're so sweet.' This is when I think spouses need to get firm in the kindest way possible and let their partner know that it's not okay. Things must change. Loving demands for change are better than affairs on the side, serious porn addictions or a bitter divorce due to unmet needs. But I rant.

----------


## bass

> I see some of the aggresive alpha male thing holding some validity. For some women it may even work for a while....and yeah I see the hotness in being told what to do now and then. It could spurn a lust like reaction if done well, but lust can't be relied on. Usually one parter will have a much lesser capacity to lust than the other partner...usually (not always) the lower capacity partner is the woman. The lust simply gets all used up and nothing really can jumpstart it when it's gone. 
> 
> That's why I think it has to get beyond 'desire' or 'lust' for the lower desire parter and become a mindset, an informed decision and lifestyle attitude to say 'yes' to sex or to habitually initiate. The feelings can follow once you get down to enthusiastic business.
> 
> Like SlimmerMe, I hate making decisions and like to be just 'told' now and then. I kinda like the 'game' idea described by Meathead to be honest, but if that's the way it always was...it would get old pretty soon. When you are ten - twenty years into a marriage, can't see that always working. Some women feel loved when their mate does things for them. They are 'deed' driven. I doubt the 'game' thing would work as well for them. Having said that, deed driven women may still not put out when they believe they hold all the cards. Their husbands may do dishes, help with the kids, rub their necks and these women are still like...'Thanks honey...I'm tired, think I'll just go to sleep now...you're so sweet.' This is when I think spouses need to get firm in the kindest way possible and let their partner know that it's not okay. Things must change. Loving demands for change are better than affairs on the side, serious porn addictions or a bitter divorce due to unmet needs. But I rant.


right on!

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## zaggahamma

> I see some of the aggresive alpha male thing holding some validity. For some women it may even work for a while....and yeah I see the hotness in being told what to do now and then. It could spurn a lust like reaction if done well, but lust can't be relied on. Usually one parter will have a much lesser capacity to lust than the other partner...usually (not always) the lower capacity partner is the woman. The lust simply gets all used up and nothing really can jumpstart it when it's gone. 
> 
> That's why I think it has to get beyond 'desire' or 'lust' for the lower desire parter and become a mindset, an informed decision and lifestyle attitude to say 'yes' to sex or to habitually initiate. The feelings can follow once you get down to enthusiastic business.
> 
> Like SlimmerMe, I hate making decisions and like to be just 'told' now and then. I kinda like the 'game' idea described by Meathead to be honest, but if that's the way it always was...it would get old pretty soon. When you are ten - twenty years into a marriage, can't see that always working. Some women feel loved when their mate does things for them. They are 'deed' driven. I doubt the 'game' thing would work as well for them. Having said that, deed driven women may still not put out when they believe they hold all the cards. Their husbands may do dishes, help with the kids, rub their necks and these women are still like...'Thanks honey...I'm tired, think I'll just go to sleep now...you're so sweet.' This is when I think spouses need to get firm in the kindest way possible and let their partner know that it's not okay. Things must change. Loving demands for change are better than affairs on the side, serious porn addictions or a bitter divorce due to unmet needs. But I rant.


another great post...imagine the dishes the neck rub the babysitting and still you hear about a headache....

geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeez louiseeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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## JD250

Bass, I can see where your wife would be concerned and I can see how she could easily have the wrong perception about TRT and the wrong perception about WHY you want to have sex, I mean maybe she doesn't want to have sex with you just because you're driven to do so by some "drug", I can see where that might actually make her feel less appreciated or even hurt her feelings.


If you look at it from her standpoint it could almost be hurtful to her that you only want her because you're on a "drug".........maybe, I'm just trying to stand in her shoes for a moment.(which is actually pretty weird)


I will say this, If she really does love you then you owe it to her to do some research and compile some solid info about low T, what I mean is this....she says that injecting for diabetes is different because those people have a disease,.....well low T will cause several diseases that will in fact kill you eventually.....who needs T now? Let her know that you arent taking a horny pill, you're just putting your levels back to "normal" and the reason you want to climb on her 6 times a day is because you are back to "normal"


If you do enough research you will find that some of the diseases caused by low T are some scary shit, being dead 20 years before your time is no joke, and if she doesnt like you climbing on her as much.....well that wont be a problem with low T cuz you won't even look at her for MONTHS at a time and when you do I hope she doesn't want it to be hard, and hopefully she doesn't mind a husband that is depressed and mopes around in a bad mood all the time, it's your duty to HELP her understand how serious of a health issue this is for you bro...........once you do that......then apply the whole alpha male thing! LOL


Ladies, you gals rock!! Thank you for helping out, seriously, guys need help understanding women and relationships, I'm gonna write some of this stuff down. Thanks.

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## bass

> Bass, I can see where your wife would be concerned and I can see how she could easily have the wrong perception about TRT and the wrong perception about WHY you want to have sex, I mean maybe she doesn't want to have sex with you just because you're driven to do so by some "drug", I can see where that might actually make her feel less appreciated or even hurt her feelings.
> 
> 
> If you look at it from her standpoint it could almost be hurtful to her that you only want her because you're on a "drug".........maybe, I'm just trying to stand in her shoes for a moment.(which is actually pretty weird)
> 
> 
> I will say this, If she really does love you then you owe it to her to do some research and compile some solid info about low T, what I mean is this....she says that injecting for diabetes is different because those people have a disease,.....well low T will cause several diseases that will in fact kill you eventually.....who needs T now? Let her know that you arent taking a horny pill, you're just putting your levels back to "normal" and the reason you want to climb on her 6 times a day is because you are back to "normal"
> 
> 
> ...


i agree with all your points. i know about the benefits of TRT and the risks of low T, told her all about it and had her watch some videos and read some articles. she thinks all these companies are in it to make money and don't care about what happens to us, she is right to certain degree but not all are that way. it will take time but she will come to appreciate TRT one day.

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## lovbyts

> i agree with all your points. i know about the benefits of TRT and the risks of low T, told her all about it and had her watch some videos and read some articles. *she thinks all these companies are in it to make money and don't care about what happens to us*, she is right to certain degree but not all are that way. it will take time but she will come to appreciate TRT one day.


Like you said, she is right but it's up to us as the consumer to do our homework and know what is best for us and how to use it properly as with most anything you put in your body or buy period.

I know mine like the benefits, not just the sex and I'm lucky there since she is 30 she is at her peak also but she like the physical/visual benefits. Instead of being the 205lb 20%+ body fat old guy I was a few years ago I am now 12% and look 10yr younger and have a body most 20yr olds would like.  :Smilie:  If it helps you to feel better, gives you better quality of life then she should appreciate that and encourage the positive change.

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## JD250

Well, I think you're right, she will come around, but at 51 you should have no problem finding someone the same age as you or even younger who looks like......well......shit and feels the same way, to be quite honest. When I look at my friends and business associates of similar age to me (45) I'm actually shocked at how poor their health is and then I realize how much my appearance, health and attitude have improved since TRT, point out to her the obvious differences between yourself and those who suffer the ill fate of low T that comes with age. Or take her to the local swimming hole and let her see what the 50 year old with low T and 40% body fat looks like in a speedo. lol

Just another angle at helping her see the true benefits, keep trying bro, it'll all work out.

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## APIs

> Well, I think you're right, she will come around, but at 51 you should have no problem finding someone the same age as you or even younger who looks like......well......shit and feels the same way, to be quite honest. When I look at my friends and business associates of similar age to me (45) I'm actually shocked at how poor their health is and then I realize how much my appearance, health and attitude have improved since TRT, point out to her the obvious differences between yourself and those who suffer the ill fate of low T that comes with age. Or take her to the local swimming hole and let her see what the 50 year old with low T and 40% body fat looks like in a speedo. lol
> 
> Just another angle at helping her see the true benefits, keep trying bro, it'll all work out.


Very true. I run into old friends on FB & around town and boy do they look like shit lol. Even at the gym, you can literally point out the guys in our age bracket who have low-T. In my work too, you run into nothing but Weak-Suits in the business world. Nothing but fat & feeble men covering themselves with business attire in an attempt to hide their awful physiques. Most are only one-step away from having a heart attack. I cant tell you the mental edge I have over these guys due to TRT...

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## Black

PPC, your attitude towards sex is awesome. I wish more women would think that way.

I've been trying to push my girlfriend to get some bloodwork done (hormone panel and reg. health). Since well before we were together, she has been on some type of birth control (pills, depo shot and implant). Some months ago she had the implant removed and has gone off all together (she started breaking out more on her face). Her periods are random (obviously) and non-existant.

What are some symptoms of a hormone imbalance (low estrogen?) to look for?

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## meathead320

> I see some of the aggresive alpha male thing holding some validity. For some women it may even work for a while....and yeah I see the hotness in being told what to do now and then. It could spurn a lust like reaction if done well, but lust can't be relied on. Usually one parter will have a much lesser capacity to lust than the other partner...usually (not always) the lower capacity partner is the woman. The lust simply gets all used up and nothing really can jumpstart it when it's gone. 
> 
> That's why I think it has to get beyond 'desire' or 'lust' for the lower desire parter and become a mindset, an informed decision and lifestyle attitude to say 'yes' to sex or to habitually initiate. The feelings can follow once you get down to enthusiastic business.
> 
> Like SlimmerMe, I hate making decisions and like to be just 'told' now and then. I kinda like the 'game' idea described by Meathead to be honest, but if that's the way it always was...it would get old pretty soon. When you are ten - twenty years into a marriage, can't see that always working. Some women feel loved when their mate does things for them. They are 'deed' driven. I doubt the 'game' thing would work as well for them. Having said that, deed driven women may still not put out when they believe they hold all the cards. Their husbands may do dishes, help with the kids, rub their necks and these women are still like...'Thanks honey...I'm tired, think I'll just go to sleep now...you're so sweet.' This is when I think spouses need to get firm in the kindest way possible and let their partner know that it's not okay. Things must change. Loving demands for change are better than affairs on the side, serious porn addictions or a bitter divorce due to unmet needs. But I rant.


When I say Dominant male behavior, and not approval seeking, I obviously do not mean ALL the time. If you're in an LTR, and he is seen in as a leader, winner, etc... he certainly can get away with being nice now and then too. Just to avoid going so over the top, and so often with it, that he ends up in a "deed driven" as you put it, relationship, where she feels like she is the boss, holds all the cards, and is the "gatekeeper" to give him some sex one in a while (I can only image how boring that sex must be for her if its given as a reward).

You point out how these men are doing such nice things, and thier wife still says '*Thanks honey...I'm tired, think I'll just go to sleep now...you're so sweet*., you say he has to let her know thats not ok, but *HOW to adress* that is the question.

Countless men have grown a backbone, but *displayed it in the wrong way*. It looks like sour grapes, which again is going to kill her attraction.

*Him:* "look honey, I've been working really hard lately to please you, I do ______, ___________, ______, and ___________, and you still don't ever seem interested in me, and you turn me down all the time when I ask for sex. This is not ok, I feel like I have been doing a lot for you".

*Her* : (filled with rage now) "YOU think you DESERVE sex with me, YOU call THAT going out of your way, YOU CALL THAT PLEASING ME, PFFTT You hardly do anything for me, and YOU EXPECT SEX!!, I don't even want to talk to you anymore, you really dissapoint me" 

*Him*: "but but but honey that's not what I meant, I really think I have done a lot around h" she cuts him off with....

*Her*: "Ohh you've done enough allright, I'm done talking to you, I'm going out with the girls tonight, have a good evening by yourself"


_Later that night, when out with the "girls" she has sex with a younger more attractive man, 100% guilt free, doesn't talk to her husband for 2 weeks, and only has cold fish sex with him once a month later, before stoping early do to her "headache"._ This may sound like a hyperbole, it is NOT. In many 10-20 year relationships things ARE that bad. Look at America's divorce rate. 

My point is there is a WAY to go about adressing the problem, without sounding like sour grapes, or coming off as desperate, and simply using words to "talk" about the problem, in any way, simply illustrates his desperation, and desperation will only lower his value MORE in her eyes. 

So what would I suggest he do?

*1.* Stop doing as many chores. Let stuff pile up a bit, and ignore her when she complains. 

*2.* All that approaching her for affection in general (hugging kissing etc...) that likely he has been initiating 100% of the time, he needs to back off. Stop it alltogether. 

*3.* If he is out of shape, get a gym membership. It gives him a reason to both get a better looking body, and two, gets him out more, being around less helps.

*4.* Get some newer and more in fashion clothes. Dress to look attractive whenever he leaves the house.

*5.* Answer his phone less, and not respond to all of her texts, and the ones he does, respong 10-20 minutes later, only sending 2/3rds as much as she does.

Now she is going to get really pissed. IMHO this is an instinctive challenge. She sees him becoming a more attractive man, but wants to take him down a notch.

She will try to get him to fall back into submissive behavior, by getting the ultimate submission out of him. The apology. She will try toget him to say he is sorry and beg her forgivness. This is the critical piont he MUST avoid. When she does he simply needs to say _"hmmm.... you don't like it when I take care of myself or don't capitulate to all of your all your wants, I'm not a slave, and I will do what is good for me"_ Heck, not giving any responce but just an annoyed eyeroll (by now she has it coming after the YEARS she has been pulling this BS herself). Whatever you do, don't give in. 

Now she is going to do some things you would not expect on paper. She will all of the sudden come around. Its the most counter intuitive thing, but you have demonstrated a lot of non-needness. If you are afraid to do this, that is half the problem. Men who are fear motivated are instantly sniffed out as unnatractive to women. 

What a man doing such as the above 5 list, he is doing it showing her in ACTION that the way he has been treated is wrong. ACTION speeks FAR louder than his words can. She will think he is ready to move on, to replace her, to get another women, who treats him better and now easily could, or may already be doing so. Her natural instinct now kicks in to preserve the relationship by becoming the one to please her, she will oddly enough also be far more aroused by him. He is also displaying that he is an attractive man, and puitting her in a possition to now work for his affection, and she will. 

On paper it looks like that would never work, however its just one of those things that does. Guys, regardless of what they SAY, women are NOT, logical in the way we are. You know 2+2=4, SHE thinks "how do I feel about 2+2?"

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## SlimmerMe

*To Dante Diamond..*....re: birth control and hormones

another stellar thread by PPC.....re: libido and birth control.....ENJOY!

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...lth&highlight=

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## SlimmerMe

The alpha male.....might become extinct......

The more fertile the woman the more she is attracted to a stronger man. And when women are on birth control they lose this desire to be with a strong man since her natural selection process is blunted. The pill threw off this chemical instinct of choosing the right mate in many ways. Perhaps this is why men have decided to become less masculine since women on birth control/less hormones do not seek out the masculine man as much.

Something to think about.......

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## GotNoBlueMilk

> ...imagine the dishes the neck rub the babysitting and still you hear about a headache....
> 
> geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeez louiseeeeeeeeeeeeeee


Do what my wife does. After she has taken care of the kids, rubbed my neck, and done the dishes, she ignores my headache and demands sex anyway telling me I can be on bottom.  :Nutkick:

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## meathead320

> The alpha male.....might become extinct......
> 
> The more fertile the woman the more she is attracted to a stronger man. And when women are on birth control they lose this desire to be with a strong man since her natural selection process is blunted. The pill threw off this chemical instinct of choosing the right mate in many ways. Perhaps this is why men have decided to become less masculine since women on birth control/less hormones do not seek out the masculine man as much.
> 
> Something to think about.......


Keep in mind that she is not getting preggers when on the pill, so all the submissive male genes only get dumped into unfertile vaginas.

Soon as she gets off the pill, her natural instincts kick back in, right as she is fertile again. Then she will cheat on her sumbissive boyfriend with a more agressive male, then just let her cuckolded boyfriend think its his kid. 

This situation plays out FAR more often then most men would like to think.

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## bass

> The alpha male.....might become extinct......
> 
> The more fertile the woman the more she is attracted to a stronger man. And when women are on birth control they lose this desire to be with a strong man since her natural selection process is blunted. The pill threw off this chemical instinct of choosing the right mate in many ways. Perhaps this is why men have decided to become less masculine since women on birth control/less hormones do not seek out the masculine man as much.
> 
> Something to think about.......


First thanks for posting the link to PPC thread, I love the title and can’t wait to read it with my wife!

besides my wife’s belief/faith she can't stand any kind of birth control, its either all natural or none! i agree with your remarks regarding strong men, strong men has nothing to do with being a cave man, a strong man is one who takes charge for his woman not over her, makes her feel she is always protected and cared for, a gentle giant if you will! what i am about to say next is a testimony as to why a cave man attitude is not what a woman look for! yesterday she woke up and was peeing blood, it scared the shit out of both of us, went to the doc, did some urine test then gave her anti biotic, she was miserable and scared as you can imagine, she had a kidney infection 3 weeks ago and the doc gave her anti biotic and the symptoms went away, but apparently didn't cure what was going on inside her, so i believe in the last 3 weeks or so her sex drive was effected by whatever is going on with her health. now the bleeding stopped and she feels much better. of course my immediate reaction was take charge of things and took care of her as if she was my child, basically get her dressed, put her in the car and take her to the doctor. she felt loved, pampered and secure! that my friends turned her on and she was allover me the next day, in other words she got very horney! of course no sex for now until all the results come back, i don't want to risk another infection or God knows what! a definition of a strong man is not being bossy, but rather protect, provide and be gentle in a manly way! Can you imagine how she would feel about me today if I used the cave man’s attitude?!

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## zaggahamma

> Do what my wife does. After she has taken care of the kids, rubbed my neck, and done the dishes, she ignores my headache and demands sex anyway telling me I can be on bottom.


funny stuff...i was just commenting on the other thread...i pretty much stay sore...

i think meathead is giving some great advice for any too nice guys that are tuggin...

also agree with bc fvcking up a womans libido

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## brad1986

Ive never heard of a man that didnt masterbate....MAybe you cant teach an old dog new tricks lol just playin with ya

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## PPC

> The alpha male.....might become extinct......
> 
> The more fertile the woman the more she is attracted to a stronger man. And when women are on birth control they lose this desire to be with a strong man since her natural selection process is blunted. The pill threw off this chemical instinct of choosing the right mate in many ways. Perhaps this is why men have decided to become less masculine since women on birth control/less hormones do not seek out the masculine man as much.
> 
> Something to think about.......


I think you are connecting some very interesting dots SM. What gives with all the metrosexuals? The breed of men generally is becoming less manly...and one has to wonder if BC does not in fact play a role with that. Of course, with males being the exception here LOL.

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## PPC

> When I say Dominant male behavior, and not approval seeking, I obviously do not mean ALL the time. If you're in an LTR, and he is seen in as a leader, winner, etc... he certainly can get away with being nice now and then too. Just to avoid going so over the top, and so often with it, that he ends up in a "deed driven" as you put it, relationship, where she feels like she is the boss, holds all the cards, and is the "gatekeeper" to give him some sex one in a while (I can only image how boring that sex must be for her if its given as a reward).
> 
> You point out how these men are doing such nice things, and thier wife still says '*Thanks honey...I'm tired, think I'll just go to sleep now...you're so sweet*., you say he has to let her know thats not ok, but *HOW to adress* that is the question.
> 
> Countless men have grown a backbone, but *displayed it in the wrong way*. It looks like sour grapes, which again is going to kill her attraction.
> 
> *Him:* "look honey, I've been working really hard lately to please you, I do ______, ___________, ______, and ___________, and you still don't ever seem interested in me, and you turn me down all the time when I ask for sex. This is not ok, I feel like I have been doing a lot for you".
> 
> *Her* : (filled with rage now) "YOU think you DESERVE sex with me, YOU call THAT going out of your way, YOU CALL THAT PLEASING ME, PFFTT You hardly do anything for me, and YOU EXPECT SEX!!, I don't even want to talk to you anymore, you really dissapoint me" 
> ...


Okay, I hear you. Actually you're right. But it can go the other way too. What if a man has low T, his wife needs it and he's just not interested? My husband and I have gone through both sides of the scenerio (he's fifteen years older than I am). We've really had to stretch ourselves to get through some of this....but it's been worth it. It doesn't help when the femal goes alpha on the male. I have come to believe that the lower desire (LD) partner should not rule the sex life. Sex life will be sadly lacking if that is the case and that is not great for either partner, even if one is just fine with it.

So my opinion is...yes hormone replacement helps greatly...but mindset and attitude is huge. The topic needs to be addressed and firmly (yet lovingly) pushed until things change. I think the high desire parnter should say what is the least sex he or she needs. The HD spouse may say....'I need atleast 5 times a weeK...can you meet those demands willingly and enthusiastically? 

Maybe the LD partner will say...'I can totally do 3 times a week'...more than that I'll be open to sex but probably won't be initiating....Okay, we have a meeting of the minds. The number needs to be kept to as much as possible. But education on 'why sex is just plain good for us' is so important too, because it shouldn't be looked at as a chore by either partner...but rather something that always benefits our minds, bodies and cores of our relationships.

So yeah...if this sort of thing is suggested by the HD partner and dismissed or not kept to by the LD partner...one would think a bit of your 'game plan' could go a long way...we would hope. Action must come into play at some point. I think we sort of agree with one another. You're right that a lot of 10-20 year relationships are in shambles.

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## SlimmerMe

Bass......I love....we women....love a gentle giant. Your description was very well said and I agree.

Your wife is a very lucky woman.

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## SlimmerMe

> I think you are connecting some very interesting dots SM. What gives with all the metrosexuals? The breed of men generally is becoming less manly...and one has to wonder if BC does not in fact play a role with that. Of course, with males being the exception here LOL.


They have done studies on this which I am sure you have heard about. It has given risen to the metro-sexual. Whenever women pick (and we do the pickin') the weaker man, then the man follows suit and loses a lot of his masculine traits. It even determines the selection process which normally women have ingrained in their dna to pick a man whose genes will be best for her to create a healthy baby but with the interference of the pill this distorts things so she does not pick who she normally would pick. And when the female does not pick the right man then the relationship is destined for......well....you know the rest of the story. We all do. Nagging. Bossy. Nothing pleases her. She wants to change him in every which a way she can. She is disappointed. She is frustrated. She doesn't trust. She becomes someone the man cannot stand to be around because she takes it out on him for making a bad choice.

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## meathead320

> Okay, I hear you. Actually you're right. But it can go the other way too. *What if a man has low T, his wife needs it and he's just not interested*? My husband and I have gone through both sides of the scenerio (he's fifteen years older than I am). We've really had to stretch ourselves to get through some of this....but it's been worth it. It doesn't help when the femal goes alpha on the male. I have come to believe that the lower desire (LD) partner should not rule the sex life. Sex life will be sadly lacking if that is the case and that is not great for either partner, even if one is just fine with it.
> 
> So my opinion is...yes hormone replacement helps greatly...but mindset and attitude is huge. The topic needs to be addressed and firmly (yet lovingly) pushed until things change. I think the high desire parnter should say what is the least sex he or she needs. The HD spouse may say....'I need atleast 5 times a weeK...can you meet those demands willingly and enthusiastically? 
> 
> Maybe the LD partner will say...'I can totally do 3 times a week'...more than that I'll be open to sex but probably won't be initiating....Okay, we have a meeting of the minds. The number needs to be kept to as much as possible. But education on 'why sex is just plain good for us' is so important too, because it shouldn't be looked at as a chore by either partner...but rather something that always benefits our minds, bodies and cores of our relationships.
> 
> So yeah...if this sort of thing is suggested by the HD partner and dismissed or not kept to by the LD partner...one would think a bit of your 'game plan' could go a long way...we would hope. Action must come into play at some point. I think we sort of agree with one another. You're right that a lot of 10-20 year relationships are in shambles.


This is very true, and I think I mentioned it earlier, but it is worth re-stating, so I bolded your mention of it. For anything sexual to work both partners need the healthy levels of hormones. 

Learning more about the real behavioral dynamics of sexual attraction can do a lot of good in long term relationships, but can't do any good if one partner is so low on the correct hormones that they simply cannot be aroused by any means.

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## SlimmerMe

> This is very true, and I think I mentioned it earlier, but it is worth re-stating, so I bolded your mention of it. For anything sexual to work both partners need the healthy levels of hormones. 
> 
> Learning more about the real behavioral dynamics of sexual attraction can do a lot of good in long term relationships, but can't do any good if one partner is so low on the correct hormones that they simply cannot be aroused by any means.


This is why there has to be a level playing field to begin with so both parties have that part down.... so the next part is communication and getting along!

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## lovbyts

> This is why there has to be a level playing field to begin with so both parties have that part down.... so the next part is communication and getting along!


God that always sounds so good, simple and makes sense but it's amazing how many people will agree with that, say that's what they want and how they are but when it comes to doing it all communications are gone, only how they think/feel maters, common sense and logic are no where to be found and it seems that they love to argue, fight and just plain make life hell. LOL

Reverse physiology;
I have always taken a different approach to the sex thing. I have no idea what made me think of it but I have done it since GF #1 30 years ago and it has worked with every one so far. Most women are insecure and have to feel wanted, desired at all times. It's OK for them to make excuses or turn down a guy but when you play the same game back watch out, they will work OT trying to make sure you are interested. With every one at some point early on when the GF or wife wanted to play I turned them down. Not tonight dear, I'm just not into it or feel like it. To a woman this is devastating. You have to keep assuring her it's not her but also no there is nothing wrong with you physically and you can easily get it up, you just dont want to. She will still think it's her and try to make you more interested. You have to keep it up every once in a while. Yes it's tough for most guys. Another thing I do to mix it up is once in a while have a good/long sex cession but don't cum, dont finish. Tell her it's OK, you are fine as long as she is pleased and you dont NEED to finish. Again to most women if you dont come they feel they have failed and will work harder to make sure you do from then on. Again you need to do it every few months. 

It has worked like a charm with everyone and for years on end with the same person/people. Also it doesn't hurt to have GOOD oral skills.  :Smilie:

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## JD250

Great thread, When I think back to my lowest mental and physical point before TRT I remember wanting to have sex but not really caring enough to actually do it, I am going to ask my wife what was going on in her mind when I was like that, I guess I have never revisited that time frame and asked what she thought, could be interesting. 

Since then I've lost 40 lbs, am energetic, work harder, do more fun things, feel great and several times a week grab her by the hair (gently) give her a long kiss and inform her that I'm going to take her in the bedroom and nail her to which she smiles and leads the way, the funny thing about all this is that after I was on TRT for a couple months she came to me asking a hundred questions about womens hormones and now she is on BHRT, Like you said SM...."a level playing field" now we literally can talk about anything without a fear or concern of hurt feelings I believe because we are both in such a good mental state, it's eliminated so many problems or sticking points in our relationship. I don't feel the NEED to play any games with her, although I believe we all do from time to time, we both want it, sometimes its me being a caveman sometimes its me being a real gentleman sometimes it's her telling me that we're going in the bedroom for a nice long ride, that's my favorite. LOL

I would've NEVER believed any of this was possible a year ago, I had no idea how bad of shape my hormones were nor did I think about hers being out of whack, but I can honestly say, even with the high cost of mine, I have zero regrets, and a freakin boner every morning, I mean seriously, how awesome is it to wake up in the morning and that damn thing is hard enough to cut glass. Pretty freakin awesome if you ask me!! And I'm guessing that if my wife wouldn't be embarrassed to death about talking about it with people she doesn't know that she would tell you it's pretty freakin awesome to feel the way she does now, and to enjoy sex this way again, and she does.


I said all that to say this.....What SM and Meathead said about a level playing field is one of the most profound things listed in this thread, it will make everything else in a relationship that much easier, good stuff. 

Did I mention a boner you could cut glass with? Awesome!!

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## big_ron

> God that always sounds so good, simple and makes sense but it's amazing how many people will agree with that, say that's what they want and how they are but when it comes to doing it all communications are gone, only how they think/feel maters, common sense and logic are no where to be found and it seems that they love to argue, fight and just plain make life hell. LOL
> 
> Reverse physiology;
> I have always taken a different approach to the sex thing. I have no idea what made me think of it but I have done it since GF #1 30 years ago and it has worked with every one so far. Most women are insecure and have to feel wanted, desired at all times. It's OK for them to make excuses or turn down a guy but when you play the same game back watch out, they will work OT trying to make sure you are interested. With every one at some point early on when the GF or wife wanted to play I turned them down. Not tonight dear, I'm just not into it or feel like it. To a woman this is devastating. You have to keep assuring her it's not her but also no there is nothing wrong with you physically and you can easily get it up, you just dont want to. She will still think it's her and try to make you more interested. You have to keep it up every once in a while. Yes it's tough for most guys. Another thing I do to mix it up is once in a while have a good/long sex cession but don't cum, dont finish. Tell her it's OK, you are fine as long as she is pleased and you dont NEED to finish. Again to most women if you dont come they feel they have failed and will work harder to make sure you do from then on. Again you need to do it every few months. 
> 
> It has worked like a charm with everyone and for years on end with the same person/people. Also it doesn't hurt to have GOOD oral skills.


Oh my i agree with this! my EX use to turn me down ALOT! she had crohns disease and her meds made her libido down, but i think she played on it as an excuse.
same old things, she didnt want me, but my other girl friends couldnt understand why. i mean im a juice head right :P even tho i wanted sex one night, i turned her down! OH and boy was their a fight, she cracked it.
girls are not use to being turned down. im single now and do it all the time!! its an attraction switch, it wasnt but just yesterday i was txting a girl and she said all guys are easy, i turned her down, and now she wants it bad!! say NO and get more! as far as being single dont act totally not interested in them, but dont be a typical male, you can still be sexual, jst not sleazy, dont give away what u want.

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## PPC

> Since then I've lost 40 lbs, am energetic, work harder, do more fun things, feel great and several times a week grab her by the hair (gently) give her a long kiss and inform her that I'm going to take her in the bedroom and nail her to which she smiles and leads the way,.......we both want it, sometimes its me being a caveman sometimes its me being a real gentleman sometimes it's her telling me that we're going in the bedroom for a nice long ride, that's my favorite. LOL
> .


I love what you said here. That is the way it is with us now. We have the level playing field...but it takes quite a bit of work for both partners to get to that state sometimes. One has to often lay down their pride, egos and selfishness to get themselves 'fixed'. And that road can also be a rocky one....and sometimes a long one. There needs to be determination and grit by both partners to say....'at all costs...let's get our sex life back.'

Often when one is low T, they don't realize there is anything wrong with them...it is only when the change occurs inside them that they realize they way they felt before was odd, they realize the new reality is the 'right' one. And we all know that some partners with low hormones don't even want to hear about replacing them. One parter will get tuned up, need more sex and it's excruciatingly painful to them that their partner remains uninterested...in both sex and in addressing the reasons why. It's much worse than before for these people. But even still, I know people who have used BHRT and they are still refusers/avoiders and will only want to have sex when the feel the genital itch....which for some, even tuned up on hormones, is not as often as you'd think. They don't have the mindset to pour on sexuality to their partner selflissly, they just offer a trickle here and there when they get too horny to contain it. It's sad.

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## PPC

> . With every one at some point early on when the GF or wife wanted to play I turned them down. Not tonight dear, I'm just not into it or feel like it. To a woman this is devastating. You have to keep assuring her it's not her but also no there is nothing wrong with you physically and you can easily get it up, you just dont want to. She will still think it's her and try to make you more interested.)


Your approach is interesting. When my husband's T dropped after he turned 50...I experienced this. Yes...devastating. I believe this is why I feel so compelled to educate women who avoid sex or act uninterested....I have experienced the reverse...probably the hardest time in my life. So I empathize with men who constantly endure this. Being turned down quite consistently for a few years is a huge blow to every part of a woman. He would say it wasn't me...that he still thought me beautiful etc, but how could I believe that when there was almost nothing I could to arouse him and watching TV was way more interesting than sex?

Now, he's horny and always good to go but we actually got our sex life puttering up again before he got tuned up on T. I finally got through to him how much the lack of sex hurt me and said...even if he couldn't get it up...we needed to be sexual with one another atleast twice a week. I took the pressure off his performance and we did other things....got real good at other things than traditional intercourse. Even a man who has trouble getting hard can still please his partner if he learns to be unselfish and lay down his ideals that if he doesn't have an erection, i's not worth doing anything. A woman can do the same without a high libido. Then, once hormones are tuned up it's like wow....we've had all the hard and sometimes ugly conversations, we've given when we thought we had nothing to give. We have fought tooth and nail for our sex life...now this is fun and awesome!

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## APIs

Wow good stuff & very true. This midset could actually save a lot of marriages if applied I bet...

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## bass

> Ive never heard of a man that didnt masterbate....MAybe you cant teach an old dog new tricks lol just playin with ya


i didn't say i never masturbated, after having real sex for so many years masturbating is not satisfying, in fact it makes me want the real thing more because i simply did get enough! so thats why i said i am not into it!

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## zaggahamma

> i didn't say i never masturbated, after having real sex for so many years masturbating is not satisfying, in fact it makes me want the real thing more because i simply did get enough! so thats why i said i am not into it!


i wasnt sure who he was referring to i just ignored it

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## brad1986

> i didn't say i never masturbated, after having real sex for so many years masturbating is not satisfying, in fact it makes me want the real thing more because i simply did get enough! so thats why i said i am not into it!


ohh haha i understand! sorry man I was kinda confused when i read that.

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## SlimmerMe

Gettin' hot in here? 

or is it just me? ...........?..........?...........?............?

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## bass

> Gettin' hot in here? 
> 
> or is it just me? ...........?..........?...........?............?


yea be careful SM, there are bunch of old Horney fogies in here! LOL! well if you girls keep chiming in like this, this thread may become the most popular one and it may become a sticky! no pun intended!

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## PPC

> yea be careful SM, there are bunch of old Horney fogies in here! LOL! well if you girls keep chiming in like this, this thread may become the most popular one and it may become a sticky! no pun intended!


Chuckle!

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## rebelstate

> my wife and i are almost the same age, 51. normally sex drive at this age slows down for both men and women, but now that i am on TRT we are no match! basically i want it all the time and she doesn't, masturbation is out of the question, i am just not into that!


sorry guy but i am going to call bullsh*t on the part of masturbation, my advise would be to either lower your dose or just wait until your e-2 starts climbing and kills it for you,that sex drive want last unless you learn how to tweek the test/est ratio.............

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## zaggahamma

> sorry guy but i am going to call bullsh*t on the part of masturbation, my advise would be to either lower your dose or just wait until your e-2 starts climbing and kills it for you,that sex drive want last unless you learn how to tweek the test/est ratio.............


huh

made sense to me

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## bass

> huh
> 
> made sense to me


really?!

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## zaggahamma

> really?!


your post did.... maybe quoting rebel made it look like i endorsed his...i meant...what you said is how i pretty much feel but my woman is in her 20's tee hee hee hee

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## bass

got it! glad i'm not the only one!

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## JD250

Wait a minute....your woman is in her twenties? You stud!!!

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## boundup

I was just thinking about this thread this morning when I woke up with a raging boner and my g/f was all pushing up on me. She just dropped her panties and said "do it!"... I got a little scared. I'm sorry bro.  :Frown:

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## sirupate

> I was just thinking about this thread this morning when I woke up with a raging boner and my g/f was all pushing up on me. She just dropped her panties and said "do it!"... I got a little scared. I'm sorry bro.


I think the key to this response is the g/f part. Not sure a wife of 25 years would be as interested....well, maybe on a weekend morning.

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## boundup

> I think the key to this response is the g/f part. Not sure a wife of 25 years would be as interested....well, maybe on a weekend morning.


I'll report back in 25 years.

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## GotNoBlueMilk

A wife of 25 years definately should be interested in sex! Mine definately is. Or did you mean a marriage of 25 years?

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## bass

i think he meant a marriage of 25!

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## GotNoBlueMilk

Yeah, I was joking. Should have put a  :Haha:  in there

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## lifeforce0019

> well, its been 3 days and no jumping on my face yet! trying to stay busy doing work around the house until the time comes! damn i think i wont last more than 2 seconds!


You could always "slip" her 5 to10 mgs of your leftover anavar ! Should raise her libido with little or no sides! Vitamin "V" for women!

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## bass

> You could always "slip" her 5 to10 mgs of your leftover anavar! Should raise her libido with little or no sides! Vitamin "V" for women!


LOL, well i gave the var away! never heard of vitamin V!

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## Shol'va

Bass I know you said pulling your pud was out of the question, but remember this...Sex is like poker, if you don't have a good partner, then you better have a good hand.....

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## bass

> Bass I know you said pulling your pud was out of the question, but remember this...Sex is like poker, if you don't have a good partner, then you better have a good hand.....


very funny, but true!

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## zaggahamma

all in

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## JD250

Fold

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## GotNoBlueMilk

I think you are bluffing! 

I'd call your bluff, but I don't even want to see if you can get it up!

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## zaggahamma

ha no raises thats wut i thought

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## Shol'va

Utt Oh someones playing Texas "Hold-um" I'll call, show me your hand.

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## JD250

I'm not sure we can do that on an open forum. oh what the hell.....JPK....show him what you got  :Smilie:

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## zaggahamma

i got a straight :Wink/Grin:

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## GotNoBlueMilk

so if your wife has a flush . . . . then you win

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## Shol'va

> i got a straight


I've got two of a kind.  :Smilie:

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## junk2222yard

> my wife and i are almost the same age, 51. normally sex drive at this age slows down for both men and women, but now that i am on TRT we are no match! basically i want it all the time and she doesn't...for those who are in my situation, how do you deal with it? TRT is a double edge sword!


I have sex with my wife almost every day. 75% of the time, she is not aroused at all, and just lets me use her while she mulls things over, like mentally doing a grocery list. I am not kidding. It takes 4-5 minutes and I am done and we go back to whatever we were doing. The other 25% of sessions are normal and lengthy and she has orgasms.

She says she prefers this arrangement to me whacking off. I do too.

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## xcraider37

> I have sex with my wife almost every day. 75% of the time, she is not aroused at all, and just lets me use her while she mulls things over, like mentally doing a grocery list. I am not kidding. It takes 4-5 minutes and I am done and we go back to whatever we were doing. The other 25% of sessions are normal and lengthy and she has orgasms.
> 
> She says she prefers this arrangement to me whacking off. I do too.


Wow this is an old thread, my wife is exactly the same way, she can go weeks between encounters, she does give it too me a few times a week, but just not as satisfying without her being more involved. For some reason 3 or more drinks helps her out sometimes, BTW we are both 46. I am sure she is at least pre-menopausal. Guys if you have a women in her thirties I advise you to take full advantage of her.

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## TennTarheel

My wife is 31 and in her prime. I cannot wait to get my hormones in check so I can slay the tigress like I used to!!

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## jamotech

> The other thing you have to consider if your situation is/was anything like mine is this - 
> 
> I have been married for about 11 years. I think we had a pretty good sex life for maybe the two years we dated and maybe another year after that. Then the babies came, and then I think my low t started (not because of the bambino's, lol). So, for prolly 6 or seven years she dealt with MY low sex drive and kinda either got used to it or decided that was just how it was going to be (or had a Sancho). I really didnt even notice (kinda like the fat that was piling on my gut). Now all of a sudden I am like a teenager again - wanting it ALL the time. It kinda pissed her off at first. And, like your wife, she said it was ALL because of what I was injecting myself with.
> 
> Fast forward to today - she understands now that my hormone levels were wacked and she knows I actually need the t now. She has seen the change in my body (and likes it), she sees other women looking and flirting with me (and i think likes that too), she knows that I could have most of those women if I wanted but choose to stay with her. 
> 
> Now I am not saying that I get it near as much as I want, but I am getting it a lot more than I was for the first 6-8 months of being on trt. Most females prolly need a good amount of time to go from where they were to where you want them to be. 
> 
> Give it some time - let her see how it has changed not only your body, but your confidence and the way you treat her. Back off the cave man hit her in the head and drag her to the bed talk all the time and let her get to know the new you again.
> ...


Glad to hear about the improvement flats!

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## jamotech

> I have sex with my wife almost every day. 75% of the time, she is not aroused at all, and just lets me use her while she mulls things over, like mentally doing a grocery list. I am not kidding. It takes 4-5 minutes and I am done and we go back to whatever we were doing. The other 25% of sessions are normal and lengthy and she has orgasms.
> 
> She says she prefers this arrangement to me whacking off. I do too.


I dated a girl who did the grocery list 100% of the time, weird, but I did get laid whenever I wanted!

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## jamotech

> Glad to hear about the improvement flats!


AAAnd I just realized your post was over a year old!

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