# STEROIDS FORUM > PCT (POST CYCLE THERAPY) >  Standard PCT Protocol?

## JohnnnyBlazzze

Been doing a bunch of reading/research and asking experienced users and vets about PCT.

Seems like the standard protocol floating around this board is 

Nolva 40/40/20/20
Clomid 100/100/50/50

My question is does this not seem perhaps overkill? All the readings i've came across suggest that 20mg Nolva and 50mg Clomid would suffice and there is no research or studies that prove that more then this is actually more or less effective? I can understand if somebody wasn't using HCG and wanted to kickstart there first week then it might look like this

Nolva 40/20/20/20
Clomid 100/50/50/50

I've read that users were even having visual issues when at 200mg around week 2. So could it perhaps possibly cause more issues or be counter-productive. 

Even in Swifto's HCG and PCT Advice thread he recommends 

wk 1-5 Clomid 25-50mg/ED OR Torm 120/60mg/ED
wk 1-5 Nolva 20mg/ED OR Torm 60mg/ED
*Aromasin 25mg/ED OR Arimidex 0.5-1mg/ED

If anybody has some studies or reading material on taking more then this I would love to read it, I just can't find any studies showing to take more, and curious on how the standard protocol came about? Just looking for clarification.

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## smokethedays

The amount of Clomid and Nolvadex is dependent on your cycle strength and length.
As your cycle gets heavier you might wanna use HCG or HMG along the Nolvadex and Clomid

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## JohnnnyBlazzze

> The amount of Clomid and Nolvadex is dependent on your cycle strength and length.
> As your cycle gets heavier you might wanna use HCG or HMG along the Nolvadex and Clomid


Agree smoke, I guess my question would rephrase to any cycle that is no more then 16 weeks with no more then 2-3 compounds. I just read a lot on here of people telling other people to do the "standard protocol" when they're only running Test E 12 weeks for example.

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## JohnnnyBlazzze

All research I'm coming across with studies on Clomid was using no more then 50mg, majority of them were using 25mg and found success.

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## JohnnnyBlazzze

Anybody have any knowledge on this, I have a buddy that has the study and he's going to shoot it my way once he digs it up.

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## coliinxd

> Anybody have any knowledge on this, I have a buddy that has the study and he's going to shoot it my way once he digs it up.


Once you get the study put it up, interested in reading this for sure

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## JohnnnyBlazzze

I will, my friend said he will find it in the next 48 hours he's pretty busy though. Once I receive and review I will share with the rest.

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## gonnagethuge

I too would like to know about this.

Would clomid at 50/25/25/25

along with nolva at 40/20/20/20

suffice following a basic 12 week test/ai cycle.

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## coliinxd

Yea any word on the study yet??

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## JohnnnyBlazzze

My friend was not able to locate the actual study or reading on it. He said it's been a while since he read over it. I was hesitate to post because personally I don't like hearing things unless I read them and see proof but he is a good friend of mind and in the medical field.

He pretty much stated that saturation doses are 20mg and 50mg of Nolva and Clomid, respectively. The amount of receptors acted on with 20mg Nolva and 50mg Clomid are near 100%. Meaning that anything over 20mgNolva/50mgClomid will pretty much provide the same results as anything higher then that. He was telling me that anything over those doses can be a waste and isn't worth it for maybe providing 1-2 extra % to the receptors with doubling the dosage.

This clashes with the original question I purposed of the standard protocol of people saying 100mg Clomid and 40mg Nolva the first 2 weeks of PCT, seems excessive and a waste.

As I mentioned above, he did not provide me with the study or reading material so take this information as you will. That's why I was looking to see if any experienced users or knowledgeable members had insight on this?

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## Swifto

Studies do exist on Clomid at 100-150mg/ED, but the effects are only marginal when using higher doses, then one may run into side effects often associated with Clomid. 300mg/ED Clomid or higher will actually reduce sperm count.

I suggest a 7-14 day frontload (double dose), then back down to a standard dose for 4-5 weeks. 

wk 1-6 Tore 60mg/ED (120mg/ED first 14 days)
wk 1-6 Tamox 20mg/ED (40mg/ED first 7 days)
wk 1-6 Clomid 25-50mg/ED (100mg/ED first 7 days)

Pick 2 combinations and then use one compound to frontload.

An AI is not needed during PCT, the quote at the top of the page is outdated or when HCG is used.

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## JohnnnyBlazzze

> Studies do exist on Clomid at 100-150mg/ED, but the effects are only marginal when using higher doses, then one may run into side effects often associated with Clomid. 300mg/ED Clomid or higher will actually reduce sperm count.
> 
> I suggest a 7-14 day frontload (double dose), then back down to a standard dose for 4-5 weeks. 
> 
> wk 1-6 Tore 60mg/ED (120mg/ED first 14 days)
> wk 1-6 Tamox 20mg/ED (40mg/ED first 7 days)
> wk 1-6 Clomid 25-50mg/ED (100mg/ED first 7 days)
> 
> Pick 2 combinations and then use one compound to frontload.
> ...


What is the reasoning for frontloading the first week? Just to kickstart everything?

And you mention use 1 compound to front load so for example if you were running Tamox and Clomid together you would run Tamox 40mg/ED for first 7 days then you would not need to run Clomid above 50mg for first 7 days since the Tamox is the one being frontloaded?

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## Swifto

> What is the reasoning for frontloading the first week? Just to kickstart everything?
> 
> And you mention use 1 compound to front load so for example if you were running Tamox and Clomid together you would run Tamox 40mg/ED for first 7 days then you would not need to run Clomid above 50mg for first 7 days since the Tamox is the one being frontloaded?


To get blood plasma concentrations high as fast as possible.

Frontload one, not both IMO. See what works best for you, but becuase of their MOA, I dont see the point in frontloading both. They ALL act by ER inhibition at the hypothalamus.

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## JohnnnyBlazzze

> To get blood plasma concentrations high as fast as possible.
> 
> Frontload one, not both IMO. See what works best for you, but becuase of their MOA, I dont see the point in frontloading both. They ALL act by ER inhibition at the hypothalamus.


Perfect, Thanks for the clarification.

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