# FITNESS and NUTRITION FORUM > WORKOUT AND TRAINING >  Learn how to train - High Intesnity Training

## marcus300

Ive used this way of training for years and its one of the best protocols there is for building size and muscle. If you can't get a spotter simply go with dropsets over forced reps..........watch and learn and listen to Dorian because its priceless 

LEGS

----------


## marcus300

TIPS

----------


## baseline_9

Its a good video series (I've posted or b4  :Stick Out Tongue: )

I like it.... I watch bodybuilding videos all the time... Its good to keep u motivated

----------


## baseline_9

Oh and good job of embedding he videos in your posts.... Who taught u that?

----------


## marcus300

Delts and triceps

----------


## kronik420

you learn something new everyday  :Smilie:

----------


## Far from massive

Thanks for the post Marcus, never seen the series before. Really great to get tips on technique and form from someone the likes of Dorian.

----------


## austinite

Awesome marcus! Thanks for posting. Saved me a great deal of searching because I am planning to change things up quite a bit on Nov. 1st!

----------


## cherrydrpepper

Love DY its great how he describes the bench as a spring slow on the down side then spring (explode) up

----------


## marcus300

> Awesome marcus! Thanks for posting. Saved me a great deal of searching because I am planning to change things up quite a bit on Nov. 1st!


Great set of videos with loads of information  :Smilie: 


Back

----------


## AXx

I have booked marked these

I you to read everything he put out there back in the day. Wished I had known then what I know now with nutrition (not that I'm a good at it now) thanks Marcus.

----------


## Robot Body

Part 2 of Legs Hams and Calves for anyone interested , couldn't get it to embed for some reason.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pChGMOVQ1Lk

----------


## aSami

Mates excuse my ignorance as I have a stream of naïve questions here:
What I understand is each vid from the above represents a training day, so this means that the reps displayed are THE OVERALL REPS FOR ALL TRAINING WEEK? just these reps? 4 days a week and 3 days rest?
I'm kinda surprised as for ex. I used to do 16 reps for chest twice a week (4 flat, 4 incline, 4 decline and 4 fly on the chest day twice a week)

NOW all I have to do is ~8 reps for chest a week?!

----------


## songdog

Great info

----------


## marcus300

> Mates excuse my ignorance as I have a stream of naïve questions here:
> What I understand is each vid from the above represents a training day, so this means that the reps displayed are THE OVERALL REPS FOR ALL TRAINING WEEK? just these reps? 4 days a week and 3 days rest?
> I'm kinda surprised as for ex. I used to do 16 reps for chest twice a week (4 flat, 4 incline, 4 decline and 4 fly on the chest day twice a week)
> 
> NOW all I have to do is ~8 reps for chest a week?!


2 warm up sets and one working set is all whats needed, some do 2 working sets but once you have worked the muscle to failure and beyond by using max weight+forced+negs etc there is nothing more whats needed. All tjose ests and reps are being wasted incorporate them into one/two working sets and your done :Smilie: 


chest and biceps

----------


## rigpig407

thanks for posting the vids!

----------


## marcus300

bump

----------


## rikuzo

What days should i spread theese exercises?

----------


## marcus300

whats your current routine?

----------


## Squats33

Definitely gonna try some upper body ideas today... I only have DB's in my gym but I should be able to do a good bit!

----------


## digsy1983

dorian yates breaking chris cormier! 





a good book end to the other clips.

----------


## cherrydrpepper

> dorian yates breaking chris cormier!


You know you've had a good leg day when you yack

----------


## CLAVHAMMER

I almost threw up after I flipped a tire 20 times on Friday

----------


## austinite

^ Good work!

----------


## CLAVHAMMER

Haha

----------


## gearbox

Thanks Marcus
I started doing this on Monday. I did one warm up set then two working. I have a spot so I did forced reps/negatives 
Mon-chest tri
Wed-legs shoulders
I am ridiculously sore. that is why I am doing 1 day on 1 day off.
Love feeling the pumps
Love the shorter work out

----------


## marcus300

> Thanks Marcus
> I started doing this on Monday. I did one warm up set then two working. I have a spot so I did forced reps/negatives 
> Mon-chest tri
> Wed-legs shoulders
> I am ridiculously sore. that is why I am doing 1 day on 1 day off.
> Love feeling the pumps
> Love the shorter work out


That sounds great  :Wink:

----------


## gearbox

Still going great! Wish I would of implemented sooner.
Marcus - do you see anything wrong with 1 on 1 off work out days. Two muscles each work out day

----------


## marcus300

> Still going great! Wish I would of implemented sooner.
> Marcus - do you see anything wrong with 1 on 1 off work out days. Two muscles each work out day


No not at all, one major muscle group and one minor is fine 1on 1off, what ever works for you and so long as the results keep on coming..

----------


## toilet

thanks for info OP

----------


## krugerr

Id forgotten about these videos. I just rewatched these, and since I have just finished reading Ellington Dardens - 'The New HIT', I have a firmer understanding of why the negatives are so important, and why that failure set is vital. When I followed this routine before, I did get bigger and stronger, but my working set I just hit 8-10 reps, I never went to complete failure. Its something Im going to incorperate in my new years course.

----------


## marcus300

> Id forgotten about these videos. I just rewatched these, and since I have just finished reading Ellington Dardens - 'The New HIT', I have a firmer understanding of why the negatives are so important, and why that failure set is vital. When I followed this routine before, I did get bigger and stronger, but my working set I just hit 8-10 reps, I never went to complete failure. Its something Im going to incorperate in my new years course.


Thats correct, negs are very important and so are forced and drop sets - you want big thick set muscles incorporate them and use the principles in the above videos  :Smilie:

----------


## krugerr

Yessir!  :Wink: 

Nice AVI by the way Marcus!

----------


## krugerr

So I have just read 'The Wisdom of Mike Mentzer' and I have another Mike Mentzer book in the post. I'm really starting to understand and appreciate HIT. It's weird to see that this information has been around since the 80's and yet, it's still not widely used. 
I think I'm a convert, although I can't see myself training MM's condensed workout of 2sets every 7 days, anytime soon at least. I want to build a gym filled with oldskool nautilus machines.

----------


## copaaz

I have been running HIT (DY style, no gear) for about 6 weeks now and I'm seeing very nice gains.

----------


## marcus300

bump

----------


## leethedane

copaz what sort of hiit have u been doing could u give eg of workouts please

----------


## marcus300

bump

----------


## austinite

Still using it. Very effective.

----------


## Twin

Good info

----------


## crazy mike

Wow, I just came to this thread and the video's...how cool. I'm going to see how I can input the info that I'm not using. I'm a strict one on form. The timing between sets thing I've never done. Great thread, thanks from ....crazy mike

----------


## crazy mike

> Still using it. Very effective.


Have you seen quicker results ? ...cm

----------


## largerthannormal

These made me soar just watching them..... 

If any body knows of one of his videos or anything that could help me answer a few questions: 

1) does he avoid normal back squats? ( maybe i missed it or he incorporates it on another day or just plain doesn't use it as he gets what he needs from the exercises shown) 
2) Any specific reason he skips flat bench?( maybe he does this on another day? or just not important?) 
3) do most of you agree decline is best for chest? ( for years i have ben taught incline is the best and decline is useless unless shaping is in need) 
4) deadlifts? i seen straight legs 
5) Is his part one and part 2 leg day is that all in one day? or an AM and PM deal?
6) wish he said what days were what. 

Over all it seems he misses the three big lifts. is this common for body builders? Maybe the thre big lifts are to establish a base and once a base is established they only fine tune to a sense?

----------


## smeeto

thanks for posting this, I have always stuck to a high intensity training general philosophy but this really elaborated on a few things making them more clear to me.

----------


## Papiriqui

WoW great vids!!! Thanks for the share M. I got a pump from just looking at this videos LOL......

----------


## Blackmambar

> 2 warm up sets and one working set is all whats needed, some do 2 working sets but once you have worked the muscle to failure and beyond by using max weight+forced+negs etc there is nothing more whats needed. All tjose ests and reps are being wasted incorporate them into one/two working sets and your done


Is this really true?
I'm always skeptical when I hear this sort of stuff...
Have you personally tried both methods and noticed no differences in gains?

----------


## cj111

Tried the shoulder/tris today...
I think knowing in your head your only doing 1 working set, you really have to make it count, so you just giver .... I loved it, might try the other work outs also

----------


## Blackmambar

I've got all the programs written down, I'm definitely going to give it a proper go.

----------


## marcus300

> Is this really true?
> I'm always skeptical when I hear this sort of stuff...
> Have you personally tried both methods and noticed no differences in gains?


yes its the way forward if your in a hole, one/two working sets and if done correctly what else would you want to do............

----------


## Blackmambar

> yes its the way forward if your in a hole, one/two working sets and if done correctly what else would you want to do............


I just did the chest and bi one now... ugh, I dunno I don't feel like I got as good a pump/workout as I normally do when training 3 heavy sets instead with proper rest in between each...

Maybe I gave up to quick on the working set as I am not used to it?

Does anyone else have any experience with this workout method that could share there opinion?

----------


## dan991

I've been doing similar types of work outs. I only work out two days a week. Upper body is Mon and lower body Thurs. In and out of the gym within 45 min both days. Been doing it for about 6 years. I can post my full routine if anyone wants it. After some research, I found this interesting medical write up about "muscle confusion" which is more or less never doing the same routine over and over. Kinda like if you do lat pull downs one week you don't do them again for a month and do alternate lat exercises instead the following week. It caused explosive growth for me. It also showed why doing "group" exercises were more beneficial for growth as you really can't do a true isolation exercise for just one muscle anyways. It was really interesting and I spent a month building a routine so I hit literally every muscle in one day with HIIT type routine that is ordered in a way that you are essentially moving through muscle groups. Kinda hard to explain but it works so...

----------


## marcus300

> I just did the chest and bi one now... ugh, I dunno I don't feel like I got as good a pump/workout as I normally do when training 3 heavy sets instead with proper rest in between each...
> 
> Maybe I gave up to quick on the working set as I am not used to it?
> 
> Does anyone else have any experience with this workout method that could share there opinion?


Thats because you didnt train right. Your suppose to go to total failure on your working set, thats means no matter what you cant do another rep and your down to doing half and quarter reps. You dont no how to go to train to failure, once you learn this you can then try and train beyonbd failure by using the forced and negs because when doing forced and negs you do the exact thing you go to total failure... Check my thread out in the lounge if you want to fully understand how to train to failure and beyond

----------


## marcus300

> I just did the chest and bi one now... ugh, I dunno I don't feel like I got as good a pump/workout as I normally do when training 3 heavy sets instead with proper rest in between each...
> 
> Maybe I gave up to quick on the working set as I am not used to it?
> 
> Does anyone else have any experience with this workout method that could share there opinion?


The read whole thread http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...rcus-s-Diary**

----------


## Blackmambar

> I've been doing similar types of work outs. I only work out two days a week. Upper body is Mon and lower body Thurs. In and out of the gym within 45 min both days. Been doing it for about 6 years. I can post my full routine if anyone wants it. After some research, I found this interesting medical write up about "muscle confusion" which is more or less never doing the same routine over and over. Kinda like if you do lat pull downs one week you don't do them again for a month and do alternate lat exercises instead the following week. It caused explosive growth for me. It also showed why doing "group" exercises were more beneficial for growth as you really can't do a true isolation exercise for just one muscle anyways. It was really interesting and I spent a month building a routine so I hit literally every muscle in one day with HIIT type routine that is ordered in a way that you are essentially moving through muscle groups. Kinda hard to explain but it works so...


Yes id like a copy/link please!

----------


## Blackmambar

> Thats because you didnt train right. Your suppose to go to total failure on your working set, thats means no matter what you cant do another rep and your down to doing half and quarter reps. You dont no how to go to train to failure, once you learn this you can then try and train beyonbd failure by using the forced and negs because when doing forced and negs you do the exact thing you go to total failure... Check my thread out in the lounge if you want to fully understand how to train to failure and beyond


I understand what your saying...

Though the workout does say train 6-8 reps on the working set so I mean that's what I'm doing and getting to failure... are you saying I should do 6-8 then squeeze out the extra 1/2 sets and 1/4 sets or whats ever it takes to squeeze out extra reps on top?
Wouldn't that set my rep range to high and just burn out the muscle?

I'll give the link you posted a read. Thanks for that.

----------


## marcus300

> I understand what your saying...
> 
> Though the workout does say train 6-8 reps on the working set so I mean that's what I'm doing and getting to failure... are you saying I should do 6-8 then squeeze out the extra 1/2 sets and 1/4 sets or whats ever it takes to squeeze out extra reps on top?
> Wouldn't that set my rep range to high and just burn out the muscle?
> 
> I'll give the link you posted a read. Thanks for that.


when it says go to failure on the 6-8 rep that what it means, at the 6th rep you get another 2 out and push yourself to complete failure. Failure means you cant do anther rep even if someone had a gun to your head, then you do 2 forced reps which will kill you and all your positive strength will go then you do 2 negs and if you have used enough weight and you truely have gone to failure and then you have gone past failure by doing forced and negs then your muscle cant be worked anymore, if you think it can your not training right.....the videos show you how to do it my thread tells you how to do it but in the end its all down to you and how much intensity you give to your workouts, its down to you.....if you cant train more after doing one of these sets your aren't training hard or intense enough...watch and read

----------


## austinite

> when it says go to failure on the 6-8 rep that what it means, at the 6th rep you get another 2 out and push yourself to complete failure. Failure means you cant do anther rep *even if someone had a gun to your head*, then you do 2 forced reps which will kill you and all your positive strength will go then you do 2 negs and if you have used enough weight and you truely have gone to failure and then you have gone past failure by doing forced and negs then your muscle cant be worked anymore, if you think it can your not training right.....the videos show you how to do it my thread tells you how to do it but in the end its all down to you and how much intensity you give to your workouts, its down to you.....if you cant train more after doing one of these sets your aren't training hard or intense enough...watch and read


I wouldn't want that spotter!

----------


## marcus300

> I wouldn't want that spotter!


I know imagen an off day

----------


## Blackmambar

Got it. Will give it another go!

----------


## marcus300

> Got it. Will give it another go!


Read my thread it will give you an idea how to train....failure means failure - learn how to get to failue then learn how to go beyond failure and then you will have a great tool to get big with

----------


## bdos

I got these vids a while ago always watch them before i go to the gym, always walk out sore!

----------


## Buster Brown

These are definitely the new cornerstones in my training routine.

----------


## marcus300

> These are definitely the new cornerstones in my training routine.


Have you made improvements since training this way?

----------


## marcus300

bump

----------


## oatmeal69

Was playing with ideas while training my tiny chest on Monday. I've always done traditional bench press, inclines, declines and flies. But, it's always been the usual warm-up set, and 3 to fail in the 6-10 rep range.
SO, Monday I got on a machine bench press and did this HIT protocol. I did a warm up and then a set of about 6 or so to fail. Then I drop-set down a couple times to bring my total reps to about 14. It's so intense I can't control the urge to groan in agony. Kept the rest to about 45 seconds and did it again. 
By the time I was done, I couldn't even train the declines, flies and inclines I usually do with anything close to the weight I use. Today my pecs are on fire, and feel TIRED, even my shoulders and tri's are feeling it. 

Same thing with shoulders. Last week I only did one exercise - presses. But again it was on the machine, drop set style, beyond failure, less than a minute rest. I was about to cry! I got more soreness and fatigue than I have by doing my 'usual' shoulder routine consisting of several exercises and way more sets. 
Thanks for this Marcus, I really think you've helped this "hard-gainer" find a new way to add muscle.

----------


## tigerspawn

Thanks Marcus thanks for the links and the very informative thread.

----------


## marcus300

> Was playing with ideas while training my tiny chest on Monday. I've always done traditional bench press, inclines, declines and flies. But, it's always been the usual warm-up set, and 3 to fail in the 6-10 rep range.
> SO, Monday I got on a machine bench press and did this HIT protocol. I did a warm up and then a set of about 6 or so to fail. Then I drop-set down a couple times to bring my total reps to about 14. It's so intense I can't control the urge to groan in agony. Kept the rest to about 45 seconds and did it again. 
> By the time I was done, I couldn't even train the declines, flies and inclines I usually do with anything close to the weight I use. Today my pecs are on fire, and feel TIRED, even my shoulders and tri's are feeling it. 
> 
> Same thing with shoulders. Last week I only did one exercise - presses. But again it was on the machine, drop set style, beyond failure, less than a minute rest. I was about to cry! I got more soreness and fatigue than I have by doing my 'usual' shoulder routine consisting of several exercises and way more sets. 
> Thanks for this Marcus, I really think you've helped this "hard-gainer" find a new way to add muscle.


Well done and try and keep it up and see if you build any more muscle over the next few months. Will be interesting to see if your body responds to the intensity of this kind of training....Let me know  :Smilie:

----------


## oatmeal69

I can already point to positive growth in my shoulders from, like, 3 sessions. I'll be ECSTATIC if it starts happening with my chest too, that thing's been stuck for years. Will keep you posted.

----------


## oatmeal69

Marcus - 
So, remember the chest workout I did Monday? My chest is STILL sore today, 6 days later! Unprecedented! I almost don't want to train it again tomorrow because it's not healed yet. I've NEVER experienced a length of healing time like that while on cycle except with legs.
I would almost swear I see new growth as well - just from ONE workout. 
So, Another observation and question.
I did HIT with my arms on Friday - and still feeling it today. BUT, I really only did one exercise per muscle that really hit with intensity. The other two I just didn't have anything left to train hard.
Example. I started with machine skull crushers. after just one set of VERY light warm-up, I went straight for what would be close to my max weight. I got perhaps 4 reps and then drop-set down like I've been doing for a total of about 12 reps. I did this for 3 sets with about a minute rest. Like I've been saying, I was about to cry! People look at me funny because the signs of pain are obvious.

The rest of my tricep workout was lackadaisical. I just didn't feel like I had anything left to train hard with on other exercises. My point and question is that if I'm hitting a muscle so hard and going beyond failure on one exercise, is that enough? It seems like it would be - or do I need to keep training to get a complete workout? If I could do this, I could greatly reduce time spent, and maybe even train more than one muscle group in a day and thus rest more. Thoughts?

----------


## slfmade

> Was playing with ideas while training my tiny chest on Monday. I've always done traditional bench press, inclines, declines and flies. But, it's always been the usual warm-up set, and 3 to fail in the 6-10 rep range.
> SO, Monday I got on a machine bench press and did this HIT protocol. I did a warm up and then a set of about 6 or so to fail. Then I drop-set down a couple times to bring my total reps to about 14. It's so intense I can't control the urge to groan in agony. Kept the rest to about 45 seconds and did it again. 
> By the time I was done, I couldn't even train the declines, flies and inclines I usually do with anything close to the weight I use. Today my pecs are on fire, and feel TIRED, even my shoulders and tri's are feeling it. 
> 
> Same thing with shoulders. Last week I only did one exercise - presses. But again it was on the machine, drop set style, beyond failure, less than a minute rest. I was about to cry! I got more soreness and fatigue than I have by doing my 'usual' shoulder routine consisting of several exercises and way more sets. 
> Thanks for this Marcus, I really think you've helped this "hard-gainer" find a new way to add muscle.


Maybe throw some rest-pause in there too. I couldn't imagine a HIT session without rest-pause. It's my favorite. If working without a spotter I love....

Warm Up Set
Drop Set
Rest Pause x 3
and done

----------


## slfmade

Marcus - What's your opinion of Layne Nortons PHAT vs HIT? I've trained HIT before (natty) and loved it, but to hear many people talk...Volume training; especially when used in a power/hypertrophy split, is really the way to go. Normally I would just give it a shot and see hich I like better, but I just started my first cycle and don't wanta waste it on something thats not the best/most efficient way of training.

----------


## oatmeal69

> Maybe throw some rest-pause in there too. I couldn't imagine a HIT session without rest-pause.


 On the last of my drop sets, I will usually try to do rest pause, or partial reps. By then I'm ready to scream, it's really hard!

----------


## slfmade

> On the last of my drop sets, I will usually try to do rest pause, or partial reps. By then I'm ready to scream, it's really hard!


Are you trying to do dropsets on every movement?

----------


## marcus300

> Marcus - What's your opinion of Layne Nortons PHAT vs HIT? I've trained HIT before (natty) and loved it, but to hear many people talk...Volume training; especially when used in a power/hypertrophy split, is really the way to go. Normally I would just give it a shot and see hich I like better, but I just started my first cycle and don't wanta waste it on something thats not the best/most efficient way of training.


I think your always better trying different routines to see what works for you, we are not all built and respond the same so trying various programmes will help you judge which one works best for you. For me personally I know what works best because I've tried loads of different routines and wasted many years on some bizarre ones what just turn out to be just some guy trying to reinvent the wheel. I've been training for around 28 years and for me there is only one way what builds muscle like nothing else I've ever tried and that's HIT or my variation of HIT. I was fascinated by guys like Mentzer and Yates and how thick set and huge these were to other bodybuilders and when you study how they train it makes perfect sense why the body responds so well with such heavy intense training. Every year you hear of some magical routine what's suppose to be the best way to build muscle but why try and reinvent the wheel when we already have something what works and has been proven over the years. 


Not taking anything away from Layne because I've learnt loads from reading some of his articles but he is a natural bodybulder which is always in the back of my mind when reading his stuff. His PHAT is nothing new he just puts his own little variation on volume training and it does work for many and that's why you should try it and see if you respond well to it. I've tried that many there is only HIT for me but its not easy with all my aches and pains form lifting so intense all these yrs. Your body always adapts to routines so swapping and changing is a good thing but for building solid muscle and maintenance its HIT all the way for me.

----------


## oatmeal69

Marcus,
Could you check post #69 - last paragraph? What do you think?

----------


## marcus300

> Marcus - 
> So, remember the chest workout I did Monday? My chest is STILL sore today, 6 days later! Unprecedented! I almost don't want to train it again tomorrow because it's not healed yet. I've NEVER experienced a length of healing time like that while on cycle except with legs.
> I would almost swear I see new growth as well - just from ONE workout. 
> So, Another observation and question.
> I did HIT with my arms on Friday - and still feeling it today. BUT, I really only did one exercise per muscle that really hit with intensity. The other two I just didn't have anything left to train hard.
> Example. I started with machine skull crushers. after just one set of VERY light warm-up, I went straight for what would be close to my max weight. I got perhaps 4 reps and then drop-set down like I've been doing for a total of about 12 reps. I did this for 3 sets with about a minute rest. Like I've been saying, I was about to cry! People look at me funny because the signs of pain are obvious.
> 
> *The rest of my tricep workout was lackadaisical. I just didn't feel like I had anything left to train hard with on other exercises. My point and question is that if I'm hitting a muscle so hard and going beyond failure on one exercise, is that enough? It seems like it would be - or do I need to keep training to get a complete workout? If I could do this, I could greatly reduce time spent, and maybe even train more than one muscle group in a day and thus rest more. Thoughts*?


Once you have recruited as many muscle fibres as possible and caused enough muscle damage trauma then the set is done, no need to over do it. Its all about short heavy intense workouts what put serious over load on the body so it grows. Normally you only need one or two working sets on each exercises and the job will be done.

----------


## slfmade

> I think your always better trying different routines to see what works for you, we are not all built and respond the same so trying various programmes will help you judge which one works best for you. For me personally I know what works best because I've tried loads of different routines and wasted many years on some bizarre ones what just turn out to be just some guy trying to reinvent the wheel. I've been training for around 28 years and for me there is only one way what builds muscle like nothing else I've ever tried and that's HIT or my variation of HIT. I was fascinated by guys like Mentzer and Yates and how thick set and huge these were to other bodybuilders and when you study how they train it makes perfect sense why the body responds so well with such heavy intense training. Every year you hear of some magical routine what's suppose to be the best way to build muscle but why try and reinvent the wheel when we already have something what works and has been proven over the years. 
> 
> 
> Not taking anything away from Layne because I've learnt loads from reading some of his articles but he is a natural bodybulder which is always in the back of my mind when reading his stuff. His PHAT is nothing new he just puts his own little variation on volume training and it does work for many and that's why you should try it and see if you respond well to it. I've tried that many there is only HIT for me but its not easy with all my aches and pains form lifting so intense all these yrs. Your body always adapts to routines so swapping and changing is a good thing but for building solid muscle and maintenance its HIT all the way for me.


Thanks Marcus. I decided to go with what I know and chose HIT for this cycle. I'll give the Norton program a try later on, but for my first cycle I figured I would go with something I know would work. Thanks for the help it made my decision easier.

----------


## marcus300

> Thanks Marcus. I decided to go with what I know and chose HIT for this cycle. I'll give the Norton program a try later on, but for my first cycle I figured I would go with something I know would work. Thanks for the help it made my decision easier.


Check out my thread in the lounge for more detailed workouts what explain how to go attack the body with HIT

----------


## slfmade

Would I be over doing it if I hit Chest twice a week? Do some HIT on Monday and then maybe some volume work on Thursday?

My chest has always progressed much slower than the rest of my body. Thought training twice a week might help, but I'm a little concerned about overtraining my CNS with a HIT and Volume session.

----------


## oatmeal69

I started HIT training on my chest last monday which is my normal chest day. I was sore even yesterday, a WEEK later, so I ended up doing legs instead. I will do chest today. AND I'm on cycle, which is unprecedented, usually my chest is sore for a day or two, three tops. My guess is that if you're doing this style of workout once a week is all you'll be able to do and still allow adequate time for recovery.

----------


## marcus300

> Would I be over doing it if I hit Chest twice a week? Do some HIT on Monday and then maybe some volume work on Thursday?
> 
> My chest has always progressed much slower than the rest of my body. Thought training twice a week might help, but I'm a little concerned about overtraining my CNS with a HIT and Volume session.


Try it and see but I would really concentrate on hitting your chest hard, heavy and intense on your chest day and don't save anything in the tank for another chest workout, go all out and seriously go to failure and beyond. If you do this correctly I don't think you will need to train it twice

----------


## marcus300

*“Carrying a set to a point where you are forced to utilize 100 percent of your momentary ability is the single most important factor in increasing size and strength”
--- Mike Mentzer 

“…one set to failure is all that is required to stimulate an increase in strength and size – with no number of lesser sets having the same effect”
– Mike Mentzer*

----------


## slfmade

Got it. Thanks

----------


## Rusty11

Awesome, marcus. Thanks. Started with chest/biceps today. Thinking of going every other day. Do you see a problem with that?

Edit: if I wanted to do...
Day1- chest\biceps
Day2- Back
Then go every other day for the last two workouts, would that be too much on the biceps on two consecutive days?
I know we're all different, but generally, is this a bad idea? 
Thanks

----------


## marcus300

> Awesome, marcus. Thanks. Started with chest/biceps today. Thinking of going every other day. Do you see a problem with that?
> 
> Edit: if I wanted to do...
> Day1- chest\biceps
> Day2- Back
> Then go every other day for the last two workouts, would that be too much on the biceps on two consecutive days?
> I know we're all different, but generally, is this a bad idea? 
> Thanks


Yes of course you can train every other day just split up your body parts accordingly

----------


## oatmeal69

What are your thoughts on over training? Isn't training a body part every other day too much?

----------


## marcus300

> What are your thoughts on over training? Isn't training a body part every other day too much?


Training the whole body once per week is my way to go, if you mean training the whole body every other day that's not wise  :Frown:

----------


## Rusty11

> What are your thoughts on over training? Isn't training a body part every other day too much?


Oat...do you mean that chest\biceps one day, then back 48 hrs later would be over- doing it on the biceps? 

I'll just let legs be day 2. Solved.

----------


## oatmeal69

I'm guessing that on this type of program, training anything more than once every 5 days or so might be over training. Example, not training biceps more than once or twice a week. But, I'm learning new stuff lately so maybe that old standard is wrong too.

----------


## oatmeal69

I work out 6 days weekly, but only train a muscle group once a week if that makes sense. I.E. I train chest on Monday, and won't do it again until the following Monday. Last week, I was literally sore for 7 days.

----------


## Rusty11

Yes. I hear. You... I might have not been clear. According to the videos, nothing is trained more than once a week. I was just wondering if back(which to an extent, involves biceps) would over-tax that muscle if I did the chest\bicep routine two days prior.

----------


## oatmeal69

I don't think auxiliary use of a muscle - I.E. biceps when you train back, breaks you down the way direct, HIT training does. MY guess is that you're fine. It's only the days where you destroy the muscle directly which causes real growth, or needs significant recovery time, IMO.

----------


## Rusty11

^^^Thanks for the feedback.

----------


## oatmeal69

That said, I think I'm going to try training arms twice weekly, at least while on cycle. They and my chest are the lagging muscle parts...

----------


## Hulking2016

Nice

----------


## blummy

Marcus, for someone not being on cycle would you recommend splitting it like

Mon: workout
Tuesday:rest
Wednesday: workout
Thursday: rest
Friday: workout
Saturday: rest
Sunday:workout
Monday: rest
Thueday: rest
Wednesday: workout

Ect.. ect...

Just to give your CNS time to recover (a good 24hours() before smashing it again? Or what are the benifits of doing the more traditional:

Monday:work
Tuesday:work
Wednesday: rest
Thursday: work
Friday: work
Saturday:rest
Sunday:rest

Or does that just simple come down to doing the whole body in a week oppose to a week and a half and while on cycle its more training in that short 8-12 week time frame

Thoughts?
Thanks!

----------


## Rusty11

Finishing up week 2. Going great and I'm spending less time in my garage-working out. Nice!

----------


## oatmeal69

> Just to give your CNS time to recover (a good 24hours() before smashing it again?


Even on cycle, you need way more than 24 hours to heal a muscle group, especially doing something this intense. I'd say 4 days at least, maybe more if you aren't making gains every time you lift, and your muscle doesn't feel fresh and strong. It's the healing time when your muscles grow, not the workout.

----------


## Rusty11

^^^true. I decided to go every other day. This 51 yr old needs his rest.

----------


## blummy

> Even on cycle, you need way more than 24 hours to heal a muscle group, especially doing something this intense. I'd say 4 days at least, maybe more if you aren't making gains every time you lift, and your muscle doesn't feel fresh and strong. It's the healing time when your muscles grow, not the workout.


I'm aware of that, maybe i should've worded it better haha.

I don't mean work the same muscle group within 24 hours of one another.

I mean something like:


Mon: Chest and Bi's
Tuesday:rest
Wednesday: Delts and tris
Thursday: rest
Friday: Back
Saturday: rest
Sunday: Calve, hams and quads
Monday: rest
Thueday: rest
Wednesday: Chest and Bi's

So i've got rest in between monday and wednesday opposed to doing it like so:

Monday:Chest and Bi
Tuesday :Big Grin: elts and Tri's
Wednesday: rest
Thursday: Back
Friday: Calves, legs and quads
Saturday:rest
Sunday:rest

Thanks for the reply so far.

----------


## Zodiac82

> I'm aware of that, maybe i should've worded it better haha.
> 
> I don't mean work the same muscle group within 24 hours of one another.
> 
> I mean something like:
> 
> Mon: Chest and Bi's
> Tuesday:rest
> Wednesday: Delts and tris
> ...


its kind of hard to say which will ne best for u....ppls bodies are different and need longer rest periods than others....some can get away with not takin so many rest days....it all depends on your body...proper feeding....and sleep

to be honest....either of those would probably be good....play with both and see hoe your body responds

-Release the Kracken!!!-

----------


## blummy

> its kind of hard to say which will ne best for u....ppls bodies are different and need longer rest periods than others....some can get away with not takin so many rest days....it all depends on your body...proper feeding....and sleep
> 
> to be honest....either of those would probably be good....play with both and see hoe your body responds
> 
> -Release the Kracken!!!-


Thanks, I will have a play around.

----------


## Dougiefresh7707

Marcus can you comment on my workout ? They are all till failure workouts and I do the half reps even when I can after failure but I drop set due to know spotter can I get some pointers?Eight-Day Training Cycle: One day training, one day rest
(One day on, one day off)
Day 1: Chest, biceps
Bench presses	3 sets	6- 8 reps
Incline bench presses	2 sets	6- 8 reps
Dips with added weights	2 sets	8-10 reps
Barbell curls	3 sets	6-10 reps
Dumbbell curls	2 sets	6-10 reps
Cable crossovers 3 set 8-10 reps
Dumbbell flys 3 sets 6-10 reps
Abs again
Day 3: Thighs
Squats	3 sets	6-10 reps
Leg presses	2 sets	8-10 reps
Leg curls	2 sets	8-10 reps
Leg extensions 3 sets 8-10 reps
Lunges with weight 2 sets 8-10 reps
Day 5: Shoulder, triceps
Presses behind neck	3 sets	6- 8 reps
Upright row	2 sets	8-10 reps
Side laterals	2 sets	8-10 reps
Lying triceps presses	3 sets	6-10 reps
Triceps pulley pushdown	2 sets	8-10 reps
Seat ball twists 3 sets 8-10 reps
Decline sit ups 3 sets 8-10reps
Day 7: Back. calves
Chins with added weight	3 sets	8-10 reps
Lat pull to neck	2 sets	8-10 reps
Barbell bent-over row	2 sets	6-10 reps
Seated cable row	2 sets	6-10 reps
Standing calf raise	3 sets	8-12 reps
Seated calf raise	2 sets	8-12 reps
Or would it be more bennifical to just switch to the workout in the videos?

----------


## BigBrick

Started this a few weeks ago and what a difference! I never really went to genuine failure before, just knocked the reps out. I also used to be pretty negligent in controlling the negatives, but now I am waking up sore as hell the next day. Amazing what a few tweaks can do!

----------


## oatmeal69

> So i've got rest in between monday and wednesday


Even on cycle, I don't think two or three days rest for a muscle group is going to be sufficient if you are doing HIT effectively.

----------


## Rusty11

I'm sore as hell today. That's all.

----------


## >Good Luck<

> Ive used this way of training for years and its one of the best protocols there is for building size and muscle. If you can't get a spotter simply go with dropsets over forced reps..........watch and learn and listen to Dorian because its priceless 
> 
> DELTS AND TRICEPS
> 
> Dorian Yates&#39; Blood & Guts Trainer: Delts & Triceps - Bodybuilding.com - YouTube
> 
> LEGS
> 
> Dorian Yates&#39; Blood & Guts Trainer: Legs - PART 1 - Bodybuilding.com - YouTube
> ...


what do you think of this routine in the order

Chest, bi 
Legs
off
delts, tri
back
off
off

& adding hiit for 5 mins after each workout and core on 1 or 2 off days

----------


## marcus300

> what do you think of this routine in the order
> 
> Chest, bi 
> Legs
> off
> delts, tri
> back
> off
> off
> ...


Basic routine and looks good, personally I would put biceps in with back day but looks fine. Just make sure you train each bodypart to failure and really concentrate on stimulating as much muscle tissue as possible.

----------


## >Good Luck<

> Basic routine and looks good, personally I would put biceps in with back day but looks fine. Just make sure you train each bodypart to failure and really concentrate on stimulating as much muscle tissue as possible.


Thanks marcus, I used to hit back and bi together and chest with tri.. I dont mind it but i was doing to much volume and bis were suffering. Im thinking the change might be a good shock for the 6 weeks. Do you think some weighted dips would be a good addition for triceps? ? I truely live them tbh and will miss them if I should stick to the routine without any mods...also really live for deadlifts and cant imagin 6 weeks no deads...sheeshhh!

----------


## marcus300

> Thanks marcus, I used to hit back and bi together and chest with tri.. I dont mind it but i was doing to much volume and bis were suffering. Im thinking the change might be a good shock for the 6 weeks. Do you think some weighted dips would be a good addition for triceps? ? I truely live them tbh and will miss them if I should stick to the routine without any mods...also really live for deadlifts and cant imagin 6 weeks no deads...sheeshhh!


Change it around to suit, nothing is static so just play around with different movements etc and see how you respond

----------


## Rusty11

Yup. I do believe that Delts/Tris are my favorite day. Finished 45 mins ago, took a shower, and I can finally reach up and touch the top of my head. Great day for PRs-which are most of your warm-up weights. Heh heh heh.

----------


## KRL

Great info, will keep this in mind

----------


## BuffnStuff

How fatigue does this system make you? Say I do my shoulders..will they be worthless the next day? Also decline bench press?? I was always under the impression that it does nothing for you.?.?

----------


## marcus300

> How fatigue does this system make you? Say I do my shoulders..will they be worthless the next day? Also decline bench press?? I was always under the impression that it does nothing for you.?.?


This is an advance way of training, if your a newbie to training then I wouldn't advice it. 

Yes the muscle you work will be worthless the next day and decline BB does a lot if you do it correctly

----------


## ZenFitness

Just did the back workout in the video for the first time today. I've always been a heavy/low rep guy, so this was new to me. I was surprised I could get through the lifting part of the workout in 30 - 45 minutes and I could barely hold the 45 lbs. plates to the rack after the deadlift due to my hands and back being so fatigued. The workout went quick, and I added 10 mins of cardio and some light stretching beforehand - all in all out in an hour with a great lifting session.

----------


## Rusty11

Yea....back day is the quickest in and out for me. What I find interesting is that my back has grown more than anything else. Must not have been targeting it correctly. I'm almost finished with my second cycle. We'll see if I continue or give this 50 yr old body a break :Wink:

----------


## ZenFitness

Just finished the delts and triceps workout, very gassed in the arms. Signed my kid out of the child watch and could barely hold the pen steady it was shaking so much. Great workouts so far... hitting the leg workout on Wednesday.

Question - tricep pushdown, I can do the whole stack at the machine relatively easy. I just did a few 12 - 14 rep sets and got some good work in, but is there an alternative in these workouts? Maybe one-hand it?

----------


## Rusty11

Week 4 of second cycle. A couple weeks ago, I noticed a clicking sound in the elbow while doing lying tri ext. Doesn't happen with he seated ones. Last week was more clicking. It doesn't hurt, but bugs me. Is there a problem with exchanging that exercise with close grip bb press? Or do two working sets of seated tri exts? Or can someone offer another exercise to take its place. Thanks.

----------


## Rusty11

Gotta bump this. It's a good routine. Try it.

----------


## ZenFitness

Agreed - I did legs three days ago, and I'm still sore. My old leg routine was heavy barbell squats and heavy deadlifts (i.e. warmups to 3x5). With this, the weight is a little lighter, but my legs get sore as hell. Hamstrings are getting much stronger.

Overall this routine is much kinder on the joints, etc., while still getting a good lift - at least so far.

----------


## Rusty11

> when it says go to failure on the 6-8 rep that what it means, at the 6th rep you get another 2 out and push yourself to complete failure. Failure means you cant do anther rep even if someone had a gun to your head, then you do 2 forced reps which will kill you and all your positive strength will go then you do 2 negs and if you have used enough weight and you truely have gone to failure and then you have gone past failure by doing forced and negs then your muscle cant be worked anymore, if you think it can your not training right.....the videos show you how to do it my thread tells you how to do it but in the end its all down to you and how much intensity you give to your workouts, its down to you.....if you cant train more after doing one of these sets your aren't training hard or intense enough...watch and read


This is just an awesome, eye-opening quote. I read this, go workout, and think I went to failure. Then I read it again and think, "no, you didn't". It's taking me quite a while for this mindset to really sink in.

----------


## bently

This is a long lived thread. Love Mentzer! Have been using HIT training about three months after a long layoff. I have a question for the pros? I have honestly gotten about as big as I want. Now I want to start leaning up and building some muscular endurance. Recommendations? High number of sets/reps seems the obvious answer? More isolation type movements? 

41 years old. On Trt, decent diet, 5'6" body fat high and that's all u need to know! Lol! Not its not horrible but a do have a belly I need to get rid of.

----------


## >Good Luck<

> This is a long lived thread. Love Mentzer! Have been using HIT training about three months after a long layoff. I have a question for the pros? I have honestly gotten about as big as I want. Now I want to start leaning up and building some muscular endurance. Recommendations? High number of sets/reps seems the obvious answer? More isolation type movements?
> 
> 41 years old. On Trt, decent diet, 5'6" body fat high and that's all u need to know! Lol! Not its not horrible but a do have a belly I need to get rid of.


Increase cardio and limit carbs to before and after workouts only.

Also hearing that eca stack is a miracle worker

----------


## bently

Thanks for the reply but being an A.d.d baby on Ritalin I'm thinking ECA might make my heart explode.

----------


## Whiteboyy0

Very inspiring thread thanks for posting, always heard about Dorian Yates blood and guts but never watched. Excited to start this. Do you guys just do a 4 day split in the order the videos go? Delts tris, legs, rest, back, chest bis, rest, rest.

----------


## Rusty11

For the first two cycles, I did it exactly like the videos. Since then(3 months) I've been doing the same body parts together, but changing up some of the exercises and incorporating rest/pause and drop sets more.

----------


## oatmeal69

> Do you guys just do a 4 day split in the order the videos go? Delts tris, legs, rest, back, chest bis, rest, rest.


I've found that if I'm REALLY doing HIT - meaning I can't lift another ounce even if a gun was to my head... I can only do one muscle group a day - even on juice. So, I end up doing 5 days weekly of the groups you mention, and add a 6th day which is abs. Off cycle, I've been doing abs every other week. I often do the same with legs too. Two muscle groups daily would be too much for me.

----------


## oatmeal69

Drop-sets are my main bread and butter too.

----------


## hulk1

Thanks for the tips, will start some to see how i like them.

Regards

----------


## carbman

Hello! I'm about to start training with HIT after four weeks with 5-3-1 strength program. I was thinking about training dorian yates-style hit 8 weeks and then back to 5-3-1 strength program for 4 weeks. After that I would continue with hit for another 8 weeks. In that 8 weeks I might get some guality muscle with strength and with that four weeks strength program I might improve my strenght with keeping the muscle. And I get four weeks pause of failure training so there is no worries about overtraining. Any gurus here (marcus etc.) who could give me some opinions about my plan.  :Smilie:

----------


## marcus300

> Hello! I'm about to start training with HIT after four weeks with 5-3-1 strength program. I was thinking about training dorian yates-style hit 8 weeks and then back to 5-3-1 strength program for 4 weeks. After that I would continue with hit for another 8 weeks. In that 8 weeks I might get some guality muscle with strength and with that four weeks strength program I might improve my strenght with keeping the muscle. And I get four weeks pause of failure training so there is no worries about overtraining. Any gurus here (marcus etc.) who could give me some opinions about my plan.


If your going to try HIT I would try it for at least 3 months+ and see if you can build some muscle tissue. I would hit it hard for 6-8 weeks then take a pullback on intensity for 2-3 weeks then hit it hard again for another 6-8 weeks.

----------


## carbman

> If your going to try HIT I would try it for at least 3 months+ and see if you can build some muscle tissue. I would hit it hard for 6-8 weeks then take a pullback on intensity for 2-3 weeks then hit it hard again for another 6-8 weeks.


Thanks! Should I still train to positive failure with each movement in those 2-3 deloading weeks and keep the volume down or should I increase the volume a bit and not taking the sets to failure?

----------


## Anonymous-polack

Very interesting I'Ll try it for my MMA feel like i'll become a lot stronger and will be able to win some combats

----------


## marcus300

> Thanks! Should I still train to positive failure with each movement in those 2-3 deloading weeks and keep the volume down or should I increase the volume a bit and not taking the sets to failure?


Your body will tell you when it needs a pullback, I normally pullback on the intensity and make sure I get my body fully recovered. I wouldn't use any protocols like rest pause, drop sets, forced and negatives during the pullback

----------


## Rusty11

Too good to be on page 3.

----------


## marcus300

bump

----------


## almostgone

> bump


Great candidate thread for a sticky!!

----------


## ZenFitness

> Great candidate thread for a sticky!!


Agreed, I've been at this routine for almost a year now and the gains have been great.

----------


## Edrick

Hi Marcus,
Great video sharing and these links will be of great info and help for those who are new in fitness world. Like to suggest those people to consult their trainer or coach to avoid any injury or discomfort in future.

----------


## marcus300

> Hi Marcus,
> Great video sharing and these links will be of great info and help for those who are new in fitness world. Like to suggest those people to consult their trainer or coach to avoid any injury or discomfort in future.


This training is for the advance so they should have a good understanding of training under their belt

bump

----------


## ZenFitness

I'm generally a pretty humble guy, so I'm not trying to yammer on about myself here but I wanted to give more props to this workout.

Before going into this style of training, I basically did a modified 5x5 workout (which is good in its own right). I had been doing that for a year to a year and a half, and my PRs had moved up.

With this HIIT-style workout, I've gained 12 - 15 lbs. over the last year and my muscle mass has visibly increased as well. I haven't tested PRs in some time but I can tell I'm definitely stronger. I've also started receiving comments over the last few months. This morning at the gym a guy I know there told me I look "way more buff than you used to". I hadn't seen him in a few months, but he noticed I had bulked up in a visible way.

Yesterday at the pool all our family friends' wives were teasing me with comments about how great I looked and asked how it feels to be sexually objectified as a man. Obviously I didn't mind  :Smilie: 

As stated above, I'm not trying to pat myself on the back here but I want to emphasize how great this style of training is.

----------


## marcus300

> I'm generally a pretty humble guy, so I'm not trying to yammer on about myself here but I wanted to give more props to this workout.
> 
> Before going into this style of training, I basically did a modified 5x5 workout (which is good in its own right). I had been doing that for a year to a year and a half, and my PRs had moved up.
> 
> With this HIIT-style workout, I've gained 12 - 15 lbs. over the last year and my muscle mass has visibly increased as well. I haven't tested PRs in some time but I can tell I'm definitely stronger. I've also started receiving comments over the last few months. This morning at the gym a guy I know there told me I look "way more buff than you used to". I hadn't seen him in a few months, but he noticed I had bulked up in a visible way.
> 
> Yesterday at the pool all our family friends' wives were teasing me with comments about how great I looked and asked how it feels to be sexually objectified as a man. Obviously I didn't mind 
> 
> As stated above, I'm not trying to pat myself on the back here but I want to emphasize how great this style of training is.


welcome to the club

----------


## ZenFitness

Thanks Marcus. Not to carry on and on here, but another great aspect of this workout is that it is much shorter than other workouts I've done in the past. I can hit one of these sessions and be done in 30 - 40 minutes with weights because you move so fast from exercise to exercise. I feel way more taxed coming out of these than I have other routines in the past as you are essentially hitting the same muscle areas the whole time.

----------


## marcus300

> Thanks Marcus. Not to carry on and on here, but another great aspect of this workout is that it is much shorter than other workouts I've done in the past. I can hit one of these sessions and be done in 30 - 40 minutes with weights because you move so fast from exercise to exercise. I feel way more taxed coming out of these than I have other routines in the past as you are essentially hitting the same muscle areas the whole time.



Check out marcus diary in the lounge and start reading from the beginning it will show you a lot more advanced hit protocols and some excellent motivation

----------


## marcus300

> Thanks Marcus. Not to carry on and on here, but another great aspect of this workout is that it is much shorter than other workouts I've done in the past. I can hit one of these sessions and be done in 30 - 40 minutes with weights because you move so fast from exercise to exercise. I feel way more taxed coming out of these than I have other routines in the past as you are essentially hitting the same muscle areas the whole time.



Check out marcus diary in the lounge and start reading from the beginning it will show you a lot more advanced hit protocols and some excellent motivation

----------


## tarmyg

Just changed my dumbbell overhead press after watching this. Increased strength right away.

----------


## marcus300

bump

----------


## marcus300

bumpy

----------


## kapper

> bumpy


Marcus have u had any experience with the 6/12/25 protocol? I have 4 weeks off work next month i really want to up the intensity inmy training, was wondering if you have any positive feedback from this system?

----------


## marcus300

> Marcus have u had any experience with the 6/12/25 protocol? I have 4 weeks off work next month i really want to up the intensity inmy training, was wondering if you have any positive feedback from this system?


I haven't personally used that protocol I use HIT which is detailed in my diary in the lounge. 4 weeks at anything isn't long enough to see if you respond IMHO but if its intensity your after try HIT unless you have and its not for you.

----------


## kapper

I love HIT ive been following urs and dorian yates style for awhile now, i really appreciate ur threads and i cant thank you enough. I understand 4 weeks isnt enough time i was more leaning towards 'overtraining or overreaching' for the 4 weeks, think i mite just stick with what ive been doing as its working, cheers for the reply mate

----------


## marcus300

> I love HIT ive been following urs and dorian yates style for awhile now, i really appreciate ur threads and i cant thank you enough. I understand 4 weeks isnt enough time i was more leaning towards 'overtraining or overreaching' for the 4 weeks, think i mite just stick with what ive been doing as its working, cheers for the reply mate


If something is working i'd carry on with it personally but with HIT you do need to take a pullback for a couple of weeks now and again and let the body fully repair . Also sometimes change is good and will create a good growth spurt because its not use it. If you do try it let me know how you get on.

----------


## kapper

Yeh im doing a bit of a deload program atm, as i noticed i was run down from the last 8 weeks, will do mate! Have a good day cheers

----------


## marcus300

> Yeh im doing a bit of a deload program atm, as i noticed i was run down from the last 8 weeks, will do mate! Have a good day cheers


Good idea as soon as you start feeling like this just take a pullback couple of weeks and let your CNS and muscle fully repair.  :Smilie:

----------


## RewardingLabor

> Maybe throw some rest-pause in there too. I couldn't imagine a HIT session without rest-pause. It's my favorite. If working without a spotter I love....
> 
> Warm Up Set
> Drop Set
> Rest Pause x 3
> and done


Rest Pause sets are absolutely brutal. I always drop the weight substantially so I can actually do this for more than 1 or 2 reps.

So drop set can replace the spotter doing help? As someone who doesn't know how to get someone to spot me consistently I always wondered if I could really ever say I am honestly doing HIT…

Also what about a set where i do as many as i can in a row, then hold at the top for a few seconds as a sort of rest and bang out another rep, then hold at the top for a few seconds and bang out another rep, is this another good way to replicate the spotter experience without a spotter and get closer to positive failure?

Are there any other methods to help get to true positive failure?

----------


## marcus300

> Rest Pause sets are absolutely brutal. I always drop the weight substantially so I can actually do this for more than 1 or 2 reps.
> 
> So drop set can replace the spotter doing help? As someone who doesn't know how to get someone to spot me consistently I always wondered if I could really ever say I am honestly doing HIT…
> 
> Also what about a set where i do as many as i can in a row, then hold at the top for a few seconds as a sort of rest and bang out another rep, then hold at the top for a few seconds and bang out another rep, is this another good way to replicate the spotter experience without a spotter and get closer to positive failure?
> 
> Are there any other methods to help get to true positive failure?


To get to and beyond true positive failure you can use rest pause, drop sets, forced (need spotter) and negatives which will also need a spotter.

----------


## marcus300

Repost from my diary


*Rep range* The ideal rep range for building size and stimulating hypertrophy is the 6 to 12 reps. Less than 6 reps will more or less increase strength and a degree of size, performing more than 12 reps will help build muscle endurance. Make sure that your reps fall within this range and your hitting true positive failure for the best chance of hypertrpohy. If your implementing one of the beyond failure methods such as forced & negs, rest pause or dropsetting you use a weight what is heavy enough to bring your positive failure at the low end of the rep range. An example for rest pause you use a weight what you will hit true positive failure at around the 4th rep then you would rest for around 10-15 seconds and do another couple of reps, then rest again for another 10-15 seconds and hit another 2 reps with the same weight. In total your doing 8 reps which is within range and your going to failure on each rest pause so you have a high chance of stimulating the right fibers to produce the best gains. As your rep range and strength increases towards a total of 12 reps you simple increase the weight being used so your constantly increasing intensity and overload, the two keys principles of any HIT programme. You use feeler sets to determine what weight you will be using on your working set, as you use different methods like dropsetting always makes sure you don't drop the weight to much so your not going over 12 reps in total. If you are you need to be using heavier weight on the drops so your rep range hits below the 12 reps in total. I always like to use around the 8 rep range in total and increase the reps upwards until I feel i can increase the weight so my rep range falls around the 8 rep range again. We are aiming for maximum muscle fiber recruitment hitting these rep ranges at failure will have the greatest potential for muscular growth. The above advice is for someone who is already advanced and is looking to build bigger thicker muscles, its not for someone who is building a base and foundation because these people can really benefit from using a lower rep range aswell as the above. 


*Stimulating growth* 

Remember going to true positive failure like I've describe previously hits the toughest muscle fibers what grow the biggest these are the fast twitch type 2b fibers, you hit these fibers and you will have the biggest chance of increasing in size. What we are aiming for is progression overload so you keep hitting the muscles with an increased weight so they need to change and adapt to the overload its being put under. This kind of continuous stress will have a reaction on the body and it will have no other alternative but to grow. We keep within the right rep range what stimulates the biggest growth and we continuously try and increase the intensity by increasing the reps then once the reps increase you increase the weight to bring the reps down within the correct range again. I can't stress enough about taking your muscle to true positive failure, this takes a lot of mental preparation. Before any muscle contraction occurs it originates from the brain sending signals to the nerves, the stronger the signal the more forceful the muscle contraction, in other words control your mind set pre working set and you will be in the best position to take your body to failure and beyond. I've commented many times how I go about doing my mental preparation but you master the mental side and you will see huge leaps in achieving your goals.Release the aggression by talking to your inner self and you will take your body to places its never been before. Stimulate growth by overloading your body to a state were its screaming for you to stop and no matter what you couldn't do one more rep even if your life depended on it, if you don't train in this fashion your not training hard enough. 





Advanced training techniques

*Forced and negatives* 

When your going to be implementing forced and negatives you need to be using a weight what your going to be hitting around the 3-4 rep range at true positive failure, then your spotter with help you with another 2 reps. I say 2 reps because its about the limit you can do once you have come to true positive failure and your partner is taking some of the weight off you, these forced reps will dig very deep into your muscle fiber recruitment. Once you have finished the forced reps the weight will be at the starting position and you start to complete negatives by lowering the weight very slowly, make sure you resist and fight the weight coming down and once at the bottom your partner will assist you to get the weight to the top of again and you will do another negative and you keep going until you cant do another negative, usually its around 2 negatives. Negatives done at this stage of a working set after positive muscle failure causes serious trauma to the muscle which will stimulate the release of growth factors. Your also 40% stronger on the eccentric part of the lift so once you hit failure in the lifting part of the exercise by yourself and adding forced with your partner the negatives will take you beyond and recruit further fibres like nothing I've experienced with any other training routine. Once this as been hit there is no need to do anything else because the damage has occurred and no more can be recruited only burn out and exhaustion. If we add the reps up you would be doing around 3-4 reps on the positive then 2 forced and then around 2 negative so in total your hitting around the 8 rep range. You have 3 strengths you have the positive, static and negative, the negative causes the most damage to the muscle and is the biggest cause of DOMS, you master negatives and you will see a huge improvement in muscle size and fullness.

* Rest Pause* 

Again use a weight what you will be hitting true positive failure around the 3-4 reps range, put the weight down and rest for around 10-15 seconds which should give you around another 2 reps, then repeat and rest again and hit another 2+ reps again. Your completing a set of around 8 reps than you would normally use but your rest a couple of times within the set for around 10-15 second so you recover just enough to complete another 2 reps each time. This will recruit those tough type 2b muscle fibers and if you use your feeler sets correctly you can really cause some serious damage to your muscle and create an extreme amount of over load your body isn't use to. I like the 8 rep total mark but this isn't set in stone, you may prefer 10 reps in total or even 6 but just try and makes ure your in the 6-12 rep range and work from that to increase the intensity and overload.


*Drop sets* 

This method needs a bit more thinking about but first lets explain what a drop set is. If we use DB curls for an example you would pick a weight again were you would be hitting around 3-4 reps at true positive failure and then get a set of lighter DB's and rep again for another couple of reps and then drop the weight again and curl another set of lighter bells for another 2-3 reps. You have to make sure you drop the weight enough to make sure you get around 2-3 reps out at failure but make sure you don't drop the weight to much, if your repping loads of reps out remember your trying to be hitting around the 8 rep range so when your doing your feeler sets its crucial to make the lighter db set just enough so you keep within the total rep range. Halfs/quarters or partials With partials you are doing a standard working set to which will involve you conducting a strict full range of motion to true positive failure, at this stage you would carry on doing half reps until its impossible to complete another half rep then do a quarter reps right down till you cant move the weight. A fine example would be DB side laterals were you would do strict reps till failure then carry on doing half reps so the DB's are only coming up half way then keep going till your hardly moving the weight from the side. There will be a bit of body assistance and sloppy form come into play towards the end but at this stage its fine just to get those deep muscle fibers working by going beyond failure. Extremely effective way to recruit those tough fibers we require with a constant tension approach. 


*
Hit Supersets* 

Hit supersets entail you doing one exercise right after another with very little rest as in-between the two movements. With these types of supersets your still hitting the 6-12 rep range so your not doing anymore than 12 reps over two exercises, this is very important. Example you would go to true positive failure lets say on DB shoulder press and be at failure around the 5-6 rep then go straight into db side laterals for another 6 reps at the most which would be failure again. You have to make sure you use the right weight to hit the correct rep range so you don't go over the 12 rep ceiling otherwise you will trigger the muscle endurance and exhaustion and you wont tap into the tough fibers we require. Great examples is coupling compounds movements with isolation.Combination This protocol would consist of a combination of any of the above methods, you could use rest pause and on the second rest pause you may not be able to do anymore reps so you could go straight into a drop set to finish the working set of to failure and beyond. You could even use drop sets with partials on the last drop set to really increase the burn and intensity. The combination is endless, its how you feel to complete the workings set and what you need to do to make sure its a productive one. These are great for a back up plan if your working set starts to go wrong for any reason.


*Rest* 

Using the above protocols is extremely tasking on your body and CNS so you need to make sure the training session are short but intense enough to stimulate growth. You also need to make sure you rest enough and have a good solid diet to suit your requirements. There is one thing for sure its impossible to train like this correctly for weeks on end, no matter how anabolic you are your going to need to pull back on the above movements and decrease the intensity and let the body fully repair and heal. This doesn't mean you have to stop training in this style just take a pullback training routine for a few weeks and lower the intensity and increase the rest days. Cortisol will fight against muscle growth so if you experience any over training symptoms its time to change things around to help your body repair and heal.



* Feel sets* The feel sets are sets what you will do previous your working set, these sets are done so you can determine what weight you will be doing on your working set. Sometimes on my first feeler set it feels light and I'm very powerful so the next feeler set I will put some poundage on and see how that feels, again if that feels easy I know I can go heavier on my working set. I also take in consideration what I am going to be doing whether its forced and negs or rest pause or drops, I just judge a weight what I will be hitting failure around the 4th - 6th rep mark or less and then incorporate the beyond failure protocols. I also remember what I did last time I did that movement because in the back of my mind I know I have to overload my body. I am always pushing heavier weights or trying to increase the intensity


*.Nutrition* 

Food is a major player when we are building muscle tissue or shredding bf. We need to eat enough energy releasing foods to fuel our workouts and also to promote muscle building. Nutrition is a very individual thing and nothing is set in stone no matter who tells you it is, its not. We are all different and have different levels of activity and we need to establish a baseline diet and work off this to suit your needs and goals. Make no mistake if you want to grow bigger thicker muscles than your going to have to eat big, train big and be consistent with everything you do. Once you establish your maintenance diet you can put a strategy together to add muscle and body weight or shred body fat. Learning how your body responds to different amounts of calories will be one most beneficial things you can do because this will open a plan to determine how you go about attacking and achieving your goals

----------


## Machdiesel

I've done pretty much all Hit, and the one mistake people make, IMO, is training to infrequent. I'm a big fan of DC, to me if your gonna go low volume you'll see much better gains. After all once a week with volume and once a week hit , to me, isn't much of a difference. Now if you can DOUBLE the amount of times you train a muscle, and double the amount of times you can add weight to the bar, now your onto something

For a long time my routine was push/pull/legs/off and repeat. DC inspired, one exercise for every muscle(2-3 for back), usually a "3 set RP", and progressive overload. A 3 exercise rotation so I don't stall out, and just keep Pushing it. Example of 1 of my rotations below. I did dropset RPs to keep all reps over 6

Push
Chest- Hammer incline warmups then x10 to failure, take some Weignt off then go failure, then repeat once more for 3 failure sets. Once I got to 12 reps on test first set add Weignt 
Shoulders- smith military same as above
Triceps- dip machine same as above but keep reps alil higher

I would toy around with loaded stretches, or 1 20 rep ISO movement like a cable crossover, but that's it

Now I'm trying out an undulating periodization type routine. Mon-wed is same as above, but Thursday/fri/sat is push/pull/legs but volume, no failure, pump the crap out of the muscle. Seems to be going pretty well. It's a nice change of pace

----------


## marcus300

> I've done pretty much all Hit, and the one mistake people make, IMO, is training to infrequent. I'm a big fan of DC, to me if your gonna go low volume you'll see much better gains. After all once a week with volume and once a week hit , to me, isn't much of a difference. Now if you can DOUBLE the amount of times you train a muscle, and double the amount of times you can add weight to the bar, now your onto something
> 
> For a long time my routine was push/pull/legs/off and repeat. DC inspired, one exercise for every muscle(2-3 for back), usually a "3 set RP", and progressive overload. A 3 exercise rotation so I don't stall out, and just keep Pushing it. Example of 1 of my rotations below. I did dropset RPs to keep all reps over 6
> 
> Push
> Chest- Hammer incline warmups then x10 to failure, take some Weignt off then go failure, then repeat once more for 3 failure sets. Once I got to 12 reps on test first set add Weignt 
> Shoulders- smith military same as above
> Triceps- dip machine same as above but keep reps alil higher
> 
> ...


A change is good for you hope it works out and you see some growth, best of luck

----------


## marcus300

bump

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

I've been giving this style of training a go for awhile now. I generally work about 15 hours a day, so the short workouts four days a week fit into my schedule well. I usually prefer to hit each muscle group twice a week (except lower back and legs) but this is working out good for now. Started doing it after I read marcus' diary. So thank you for showing me something new!

----------


## marcus300

Only for the brave and insane

----------


## marcus300

Bump

----------


## NACH3

> Only for the brave and insane


Nothing better than putting your body through sheer torture...Day in and day out! 

We were the warriors of the past & are now the Warriors of today!  :Wink:

----------


## MrFreshmaker

> Bump


Hey Marcus,thanks for bumping this thread.I was searching to learn more about HIT training and I couldn't find this thread.
I have a question though! I like to do one body part every day,so according to these videos,we should do only 3-4 exercises per body part,and if i do that I'll finish in 15 min lol.So my question is,can i add more exercises,like 6-7 for every body part?

----------


## Sfla80

> Hey Marcus,thanks for bumping this thread.I was searching to learn more about HIT training and I couldn't find this thread.
> I have a question though! I like to do one body part every day,so according to these videos,we should do only 3-4 exercises per body part,and if i do that I'll finish in 15 min lol.So my question is,can i add more exercises,like 6-7 for every body part?


Mrfreshmaker. Go to the lounge. Should be one of the top posts.

Look for marcus dugeon. It's a long read. But full detailed about hit

----------


## MrFreshmaker

> Mrfreshmaker. Go to the lounge. Should be one of the top posts. Look for marcus dugeon. It's a long read. But full detailed about hit


Thanks Sfla.I am following Marcus thread,I didn't read it all though,but to be honest i have difficulties with some terms(english is not my native language) and I can't be pain in the arse asking what is this what is that.

----------


## marcus300

> Thanks Sfla.I am following Marcus thread,I didn't read it all though,but to be honest i have difficulties with some terms(english is not my native language) and I can't be pain in the arse asking what is this what is that.


Please read the thread in the lounge and if you have any questions just ask. Don't worry about your English.

----------


## Splifton

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

----------


## marcus300

> Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!


Once would be fine lol

----------


## RunMeOver2

Sweet thanks for bumping this thread. Been wanting to switch up my workout routines for a while now.

----------


## marcus300

> Sweet thanks for bumping this thread. Been wanting to switch up my workout routines for a while now.


No problem all the best with it

----------


## somewhatjacked

I don't have a training partner so do you guys recommend doing drop sets for every exercise? 

Currently my goal is to bring bf% down.

----------


## Rusty11

I love this split. I've taken a few months off to try something else. But, it's time to get back on it. Trust me, you'll grow....even if you're an old man, like me. Gotta eat, eat, eat!

----------


## marcus300

bumpy

----------


## marcus300

Bump to the top

----------


## marcus300

Always remember if you ever do this type of training and you learn over time to take your body to true positive failure you must take a pullback after a few weeks. You cant carry on training at this intensity without taking a few weeks to fully recover and train without the same intensity. Trust me guys I know because it can give you injuries so if your going to try and teach your body and mind to go to failure always make sure you consider taking a couple of weeks at a lower intensity after around 5-7 weeks or when you feel your body needs it, many of you wont even last 5 weeks so listen to the body and take the pullback. It sure does builds serious mass and thickness but train educated and listen to your body  :Smilie:

----------


## InternalFire

Yes!

Marcus, you gotta merge your knowledge-rich posts from dungeon in to this, so folks can catch up quicker and concentrate to learn this material better. this is great thread!

----------


## marcus300

> Yes!
> 
> Marcus, you gotta merge your knowledge-rich posts from dungeon in to this, so folks can catch up quicker and concentrate to learn this material better. this is great thread!


All of it is in my main thread, I am sure of it

----------


## InternalFire

I know, but not every new member will get to all consolidated concentrate of information that you've been putting out there ...  :Smilie:  

just an idea - you should do an e-book on this what you've learned, lived trough and get some reward for what you've put out, how it helped others over a span of all these years and contribute to uprising generations of iron enthusiasts.

Im sure alot of new generations have alot to discover

PS: you know, when I browse and read trough your main thread, I dont only see all the info and progress, I see the potential of immense drive and passion, that cant go to waste or left dormant, that got to be planted in its real form, that shit is valuable marcus!

----------


## marcus300

> I know, but not every new member will get to all consolidated concentrate of information that you've been putting out there ...  
> 
> just an idea - you should do an e-book on this what you've learned, lived trough and get some reward for what you've put out, how it helped others over a span of all these years and contribute to uprising generations of iron enthusiasts.
> 
> Im sure alot of new generations have alot to discover
> 
> PS: you know, when I browse and read trough your main thread, I dont only see all the info and progress, I see the potential of immense drive and passion, that cant go to waste or left dormant, that got to be planted in its real form, that shit is valuable marcus!


That's why I preach train the mind aswell, the mind set will only get to the places you have to go to build that freaky muscle unless your just a freak of nature.

I haven't got time to write an e-book but I could have a ghost writer if I sent someone all the stuff Mmmm

----------


## InternalFire

> That's why I preach train the mind aswell, the mind set will only get to the places you have to go to build that freaky muscle unless your just a freak of nature.
> 
> I haven't got time to write an e-book but I could have a ghost writer if I sent someone all the stuff Mmmm


Hmmmmm

----------


## Marsoc

> Ive used this way of training for years and its one of the best protocols there is for building size and muscle. If you can't get a spotter simply go with dropsets over forced reps..........watch and learn and listen to Dorian because its priceless 
> 
> LEGS


I personally heard mixed opinions on stretching I don't like to stretch before legs or anything as I think it reduces injury. I don't want to be loose. Not to say I'm not flexible. I'll be more specific later.

Before I run. I like to do non static stretches. I use to get horrible shin splints when I went to bed after running. After I started doing butt kicks, side steps, knee raises etc. it made a world of difference.

----------


## Marsoc

Well I watched more of the video and at the end of the stretches he mentioned that those stretches are better then static stretches, so Dorian and myself are like minded lol. Because he said static stretches cause micro tears in the muscles. So yeah I love non static stretches. But still I never really stretch before weight training..other then warming up the muscles a bit. No static stretches though 

Love pre xhausting the hamstrings with squats and then going right into a set of leg press. Just cuz the leg press focuses more on the quads I like to pre exhaust the hams so they get a nice breakdown as well or vice versa

----------


## TroyJackson3000

thanks

----------


## TroyJackson3000

very helpful

----------

