# GENERAL FORUM > IN THE NEWS >  Israel is a war criminal!!

## smokethedays

Israel is butchering the Palestinians while the entire world is watching with an American/Egyptian green light.

That is a sad day for mankind. When a city is been under siege for months and months until food, medicine, power, and clean water became as scarce as never. Hospitals are overwhelmed and don't have enough supplies to face the massacre commited by Israel against innocents.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/***1662.stm

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/mi...814984286.html

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## MuscleScience

This sh-t has been going on for thousands of years, there is right side on this situation. Its just people hating each other more than they love their kids.

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## smokethedays

> This sh-t has been going on for thousands of years, there is right side on this situation. Its just people hating each other more than they love their kids.


I agree on it being going for 1000's of years but this is a massacre bro.
300 killed almost in 2 days and 700 wonded!!! air raids and tanks and bombs against a bunch of disarmed (except for auto rifles and light weapons with Hamas troops) people.

It is not the same man, the entire world is watching just because the have to kneel to the F-ing dollar.

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## MuscleScience

> I agree on it being going for 1000's of years but this is a massacre bro.
> 300 killed almost in 2 days and 700 wonded!!! air raids and tanks and bombs against a bunch of disarmed (except for auto rifles and light weapons with Hamas troops) people.
> 
> It is not the same man, the entire world is watching just because the have to kneel to the F-ing dollar.


It is the same, in ancient times when you conquered a town or people you killed not only the men, but the women and children. No one was left alive to later rise up and fight back. People are just as horrible as we have ever been. The only thing that is different is the technology.

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## smokethedays

> It is the same, *in ancient times* when you *conquered* a town or people you killed not only the men, but the women and children. No one was left alive to later rise up and fight back. People are just as horrible as we have ever been. The only thing that is different is the technology.


Excatly, Ancient Times.
We are in the 21st century.
Are you justifying what's going on man?!!
Is that an excuse to whats happenning? Just because it happened before so there is no reason to stop killing innocent children and women?

Conquering?????? WTF?!!

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## amcon

sadly not justification for both sides, p's are allways launching rockets daily over the lines at i's... and one side will break eventually, big diff is i's have prophesy on their sides - from the bible...

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## MuscleScience

> Excatly, Ancient Times.
> We are in the 21st century.
> Are you justifying what's going on man?!!
> Is that an excuse to whats happenning? Just because it happened before so there is no reason to stop killing innocent children and women?
> 
> Conquering?????? WTF?!!



Im a student of history, Just because we are in the 21st century doesnt mean we act any different as a people than we did in the 1st century. You claim that Israel is a war criminal. Yet you forget that only 50 or 60 years ago the roles were reversed. I dont justify anything, I think we all need to stop making the mistake that one side it to blame. Both sides are to blame for what is happening, that is the reality.

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## JiGGaMaN

> Im a student of history, Just because we are in the 21st century doesnt mean we act any different as a people than we did in the 1st century. You claim that Israel is a war criminal. Yet you forget that only 50 or 60 years ago the roles were reversed. I dont justify anything, I think we all need to stop making the mistake that one side it to blame. Both sides are to blame for what is happening, that is the reality.


word. if anyone thinks the israelis are bad to palestinians, the rest of the arab world is just as bad to them as well. but i agree with musclesci: you cant say one side is inherently worse than the other. also, food medicine and power are available in palestine... ive been there. pure hamas propaganda. works well on you smokethedays.

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## smokethedays

> sadly not justification for both sides, p's are allways launching rockets daily over the lines at i's... and one side will break eventually, big diff is i's have prophesy on their sides - from the bible...


Correct paletinains are lanuching BACKYARD made rockets that hit the ground and make a hole in the streets which bothers Israel alot cause they have to stop the traffic and fix the whole  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 
Coomon man, so if some one pushes you at a club, you gonna grab an AK-47 and shoot him 50 times?!!!

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## Panzerfaust

The "Jews" are nothing but a bunch of ****ing snakes that hide behind "We are gods people" and infiltrate and destroy governments and think they can do anything they want.

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## smokethedays

> word. if anyone thinks the israelis are bad to palestinians, *the rest of the arab world is just as bad to them as well*. but i agree with musclesci: you cant say one side is inherently worse than the other. also, food medicine and power are available in palestine... ive been there. *pure hamas propaganda. works well on you smokethedays*.


I hate Hamas my friend, You are wrong about that one.

Im against brutality thats all.
This has been spkoen about many many times its countless.
The Arab world reaction is VERY justified against the Israelies who gathered them selves off the streets of Europe and poured in Plaestine after the UK enriching "the promise land" idea to get rid off them and have an ally in the Mid East.

Now that a country has been established and regular people live there, iam not saying Israel gotta be demolished like those crazy radicals out there.

All Im saying is that its so bad for people who supposedly suffered the Nazi camp and oppression to re-do what they suffered and know best how it feels against other people.

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## smokethedays

> The "Jews" are nothing but a bunch of ****ing snakes that hide behind "We are gods people" and infiltrate and destroy governments and think they can do anything they want.


 :LOL:

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## Voland

> The "Jews" are nothing but a bunch of ****ing snakes that hide behind "We are gods people" and infiltrate and destroy governments and think they can do anything they want.


Awesome!



 :2worship:

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## Matt

If Israel had no oil, and didnt have the backing of the USA then im betting the jews would have been forced out long ago.

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## Panzerfaust

Oh, and **** the Palestinians as well.  :LOL:

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## MuscleScience

> If Israel had no oil, and didnt have the backing of the USA then im betting the jews would have been forced out long ago.


Israel doesnt have significant oil reserves, and thoughout history the jews have been forced out of Israel many times.

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## smokethedays

> Israel doesnt have significant oil reserves, and thoughout history the jews have been forced out of Israel many times.


That is not an excuse to go butcher unarmed people my friend. with tanks and planes vs. rifles, stones, and backyard made rockets

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## Matt

I just find it strange, when Russia did something similar not so long ago the world was in uproar, when isreal do it, it seems to be fine. Isreal have large enough oil reserves to keep many intrested.

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## amcon

the point is you gotta know what you are talking about, dont look at one side... and they are God people - shelved right now, gentiles conversion in to the church in Gods plan now - however, just understand that if you dont understand you will just wait a little while and let it all play out... as for other nations helping israel will be judged along side of the ones that dont ... so go get big and love every one you can

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## Matt

> the point is you gotta know what you are talking about, dont look at one side... and they are God people - shelved right now, gentiles conversion in to the church in Gods plan now - however, just understand that if you dont understand you will just wait a little while and let it all play out... as for other nations helping israel will be judged along side of the ones that dont ... so go get big and love every one you can


And there lies the problem, just watching to see how it plays out..

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## amcon

how would influence some thing dif? call the un and give them you suggestion... im sure they have not thought of what you would do dif... right?

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## smokethedays

> the point is you gotta know what you are talking about, dont look at one side... and they are God people - shelved right now, gentiles conversion in to the church in Gods plan now - however, just understand that if you dont understand you will just wait a little while and let it all play out... as for other nations helping israel will be judged along side of the ones that dont ... so go get big and love every one you can





> how would influence some thing dif? call the un and give them you suggestion... im sure they have not thought of what you would do dif... right?


I really don't understand what you mean AT ALL.

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## T_Own

you think that is a bad massacre when there has been genocide going on in rwanda for years now? watch hotel rwanda, and that isn't even close to the full effect. 

but its a war, people die. it goes on all over the world pretty much every day. just because this has been a big debate for years, it gets put on the news

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## amcon

what do you want to know... i will help explain any thing i can

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## MuscleScience

> That is not an excuse to go butcher unarmed people my friend. with tanks and planes vs. rifles, stones, and backyard made rockets


No were in that post did I say that it was an excuse...

I was pointing out to the other poster that he has no idea about what he is talking about. Much like other people who jump in on this subject and try to claim one side or the other is to blame. Thinking like that is what keeps the fighting going. The blame game diverts the responsibility from one side to the other. 

Both sides have butchered unarmed people. They are both to blame and they both should be held accountable.

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## gst528i

What is cruel about it? Hundreds of rockets and mortars were fired from that neighborhood in the preceding days. Defending oneself is not cruel. Every one of us is decended from people who defended themselves because people who don't win Darwin Awards.
SO from what i have read if someone comes to a battle with knifes you would do the honorable thing and put down a gun?
After years of being brought to their knees, jews will never wait till its too late. Why is it okay for hamas to fire rockets and continue with suicide bombing while there is a cease fire in effect.

When the u.s has an issue with a country it doesn't need the approval of another country to defend it self but that right is not reserved for other sovereign nations? 
There will never be peace in the middle east until one of the races gets wiped out. Its a sad truth.

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## Tock

> The "Jews" are nothing but a bunch of ****ing snakes that hide behind "We are gods people" and infiltrate and destroy governments and think they can do anything they want.


Quite the overstatement, don'tchathink? Overgeneralization too, eh?

Infiltrating and destroying governments is something that US officials do on the sly with wanton abandon. Soviets & Russians, French, German, Italian, British, Chinese, Japanese, pretty much any group with enough resources at their disposal and an ax to grind. 

Perhaps you'd like to take a swing at an unfortunate philosophy that afflicts a % of Israeli leaders: Zionism. It derrives the worst part of its nature from a quality many Christian, Muslim, and other religions have: fundamentalism. 

It's not much fun, and there's not much mental about it, so I dunno where they got that name from . . .

-----------------
fundamentalism 
  noun 1-- a form of Protestant Christianity which upholds belief in the strict and literal interpretation of the Bible. 2 the strict maintenance of the ancient or fundamental doctrines of any religion or ideology. 

----------------

Not all Jews support Zionism, either, as evidenced by the friendly folks at
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

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## Tock

IMHO, and keep in mind that I'm no scholar on this issue, but it seems to me that the United Nations made a big mistake back in 1947 when it recognized the country of Israel on the terms that it had. A lot of people who had been living & working on the land for centuries had to move (some left at gunpoint). Had the UN established a new country for those friendly folks in the central part of Texas, or Canada, or India, most likely the folks who lost title to their land wouldn't much care for what happened. Arabs would be no different.

I've heard people say that Israel owned that land before the Arabs did, so they should get it back. But, following that logic, American Indians should get back (what's left of) North and South America. 

IMHO, despite all the wrongs that have been done, and all the further wrongs done in hopes of setting things aright, about the only thing that will return that bit of real estate back to the Arabs would be Sex.
- Seems to me that the Israeli government has noticed that their birthrate is so low that the Arab-Israeli citizens, with their greater birthrate, will soon outnumber the Hebrew-Israelis. As far as I'm concerned, the most peaceful way to correct the UN's action would be to let nature take its course, and when the demographics change, as they eventually will, the voters of Israel can choose to stop fighting their neighbors and return the original plots of land to ancestral families, and live happily ever after. 

News accounts of recent efforts to counteract Arab birthrates:
http://web.israelinsider.com/Views/1374.htm
http://bokertov.typepad.com/btb/2005...ving_jews.html

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## Tock

> they are God people


Lots of groups all claim to be "God's People." Hebrews, Muslims, Republicans, Nazi Germans, Polygamist Mormons, Witch-Burners, KKK, Catholics, Crusaders, American Politicians, Christian Scientists, One-Worlders, everyone except atheists. 

So, what makes you so sure that _your_ god is the one that matters? I have absolute proof from seventeen different religions that demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt that their religion (and their god) is the only true god, and that all the others are false. 

Let's see what you have to show . . .

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## T_Own

> Lots of groups all claim to be "God's People." Hebrews, Muslims, Republicans, Nazi Germans, Polygamist Mormons, Witch-Burners, KKK, Catholics, Crusaders, American Politicians, Christian Scientists, One-Worlders, everyone except atheists. 
> 
> So, what makes you so sure that _your_ god is the one that matters? I have absolute proof from seventeen different religions that demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt that their religion (and their god) is the only true god, and that all the others are false. 
> 
> Let's see what you have to show . . .


well thats the whole problem. no one believes in the other, and everyone thinks its their way. people say the US is different, but as you mentioned, people in the country still think they are better than others simply for their religion. overseas its even more outspoken because its been going on for years to no avail. the jews make it even bigger by claiming "their holy land" and making it a country on that fact a lone. thats like me going to my neighbors house, claiming that god sent me to live there, and killing him when he doesn't leave. its crazy, but its what they believe, and are willing to die for it

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## Panzerfaust

> *IMHO, and keep in mind that I'm no scholar on this issue, but it seems to me that the United Nations made a big mistake back in 1947 when it recognized the country of Israel on the terms that it had. A lot of people who had been living & working on the land for centuries had to move (some left at gunpoint). Had the UN established a new country for those friendly folks in the central part of Texas, or Canada, or India, most likely the folks who lost title to their land wouldn't much care for what happened. Arabs would be no different.*
> 
> I've heard people say that Israel owned that land before the Arabs did, so they should get it back. But, following that logic, American Indians should get back (what's left of) North and South America. 
> 
> IMHO, despite all the wrongs that have been done, and all the further wrongs done in hopes of setting things aright, about the only thing that will return that bit of real estate back to the Arabs would be Sex.
> - Seems to me that the Israeli government has noticed that their birthrate is so low that the Arab-Israeli citizens, with their greater birthrate, will soon outnumber the Hebrew-Israelis. As far as I'm concerned, the most peaceful way to correct the UN's action would be to let nature take its course, and when the demographics change, as they eventually will, the voters of Israel can choose to stop fighting their neighbors and return the original plots of land to ancestral families, and live happily ever after. 
> 
> News accounts of recent efforts to counteract Arab birthrates:
> http://web.israelinsider.com/Views/1374.htm
> http://bokertov.typepad.com/btb/2005...ving_jews.html



Some believe that was the payment the Jews requested for getting America involved in the war.

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## amcon

simply put hundred of prophases have built a undeniable case of the truth of the bible... much of it backed up by some of the people you talked about... every group of people have recorded some kind of flood, records of Jesus. and millions of books written on the subject backed up my the oldest know forms of writing in Greek and Hebrew during roman times and after. 

Google doc dino or ken hovind - watch the videos and watch how he dissects every possible question you have with a SIENTIFIC answer... he is a scientist who felt like he could disprove some part of the bible and thus prove it was bogus... well, he now debates with the best in the world on the subject and does so betting money that they can not prove other wise

or

starofdavid(I think that is the name) .net same sort of story however he proves much about the bible from many dif angles. that will blow your mind - 

when your done with that info I will give you much much more... 

as for America getting involved sure their are many reasons - the biggest ... simply put we are a nation built on fundamentalism... read the constitution - and maybe they know some thing we don’t? 

but, all and all, we search for things in our live to make up feel happy or fulfilled, working out make us feel better, look better, a pretty girl on our arm makes us fell and look better as well... non of that matters too much- what does (according to the bible) is that you love one another praise the God who made you. that is why you/we feel so torn when we hear about stories like the Santa killer, like the middle east, but don’t hate the Word of God - read about it educate your self

I did and TRUST ME I didn’t disserve His grace (for giveness for Sin) yet it is a gift that is given when you trust that what happen, happened. 

Read an ask question - thats what you do here right?

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## Tock

> simply put hundred of prophases have built a undeniable case of the truth of the bible...


100 "prophases?"


Regardless, any number of proponents make that same claim of their book. If you're looking for an excuse to become a Bahai, check out Joe Sear's account of how all the Bible prophecy points to "the Bab." 
"Theif In The Night" 
http://www.bahairesources.com/products.php?id=1368

I'm sure his list of fulfilled prophecies will be just as persuasive as your list of fulfilled prophecies . . . meaning, not very . . .

But just in case it is, let me know, and I'll keep feeding you with different religious organizations and the list of fulfilled prophecies that prove whatever point they want to make. 

If you despair of ever getting things figured out, let me know, and I'll put you on to these friendly folks, and their take on "fulfilled prophecies."
http://www.infidels.org/


Since you like Mr. Hovind, he puts in an interesting appearance here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMpk7...eature=related
Too bad he didn't bring a fire extinguisher with him so he didn't crash and burn quite so badly . . . according to him, this planet is only about 6000 years old. The debate is only 2 hours, but it seems about 6000 years . . . 

Who's the guy who prints books with pictures of dinosaurs (T. Rex) chilling out on Noah's Ark along with all the other animals? I keep a copy of one in my shop's waiting area for grins . . .


Too bad we don't have a religious forum; this thread has potential for some fun . . .
 :LOL: 

But, it's not, so I'll resist the temptation . . .

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## amcon

:Nutkick:  (that kick is with love)listen to the hovind 6000 year old the earth... and you will def change you mind... yes he is boaring and horrible humor - but your funny and have no facts (he he he) 

look at his sientific expertise... the man proves his point and offers millions to prove him dif. 

their is a video out there that he debates 5 harvard professors on the big bang thereory and leaves them speachless... POINT HOVIND

the dif betwee the religions and the bible is that they are documented by them selves and the bible is over thousands of years... by dif people

t rex? how much of t rex have they really found? like lucey the missing link a monkeys rib and back bone some toes and a head found over two mile away... o ya and found in the last few days before the investors pulled the funding to run the dig... humm - ya that sounds ligit.

and i got it figured out, and i figure this... what if im wrong you your right - then the lights just go out and thats that
or
im wright and your wrong... wheee hooo ... you better by your self an asbestos suit your going to need it... and watch out for the sexy girl angles with boy parts... that will suck

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## Edgar

> That is not an excuse to go butcher unarmed people my friend. with tanks and planes vs. rifles, stones, and backyard made rockets


Bro are u for real, cause if you are, were have you been my brother!!!!!!


hey heres a funny story for u guys Jordan use to get their water imported from israel and someone in isreal thought it would be funny to contaminate the water with human fekal matter (shit) so to tell the story short thousands of people got sick and many even died!!!!! unless Israel can fight and beat all the Middle east they will never be accepted their by any neighboring country. they hold their position through force and might and this in the long run will always fail. and guys not all jews are bad Jewish girls are awsome!!!!

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## goose

> The "Jews" are nothing but a bunch of ****ing snakes that hide behind "We are gods people" and infiltrate and destroy governments and think they can do anything they want.


 :Bow1: 

Its the zionists thats the problem.

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## goose

Even Rupert Murdoch is Jewish,what fair media you guys have,LOL.

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## Matt

> (that kick is with love)listen to the hovind 6000 year old the earth... and you will def change you mind... yes he is boaring and horrible humor - but your funny and have no facts (he he he) 
> 
> look at his sientific expertise... the man proves his point and offers millions to prove him dif. 
> 
> their is a video out there that he debates 5 harvard professors on the big bang thereory and leaves them speachless... POINT HOVIND
> 
> the dif betwee the religions and the bible is that they are documented by them selves and the bible is over thousands of years... by dif people
> 
> t rex? how much of t rex have they really found? like lucey the missing link a monkeys rib and back bone some toes and a head found over two mile away... o ya and found in the last few days before the investors pulled the funding to run the dig... humm - ya that sounds ligit.
> ...


Is it just me, or does that make any sense?? I really havn't got a clue what your talking about.  :Chairshot:

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## spywizard

> Correct paletinains are lanuching BACKYARD made rockets that hit the ground and make a hole in the streets which bothers Israel alot cause they have to stop the traffic and fix the whole 
> Coomon man, so if some one pushes you at a club, you gonna grab an AK-47 and shoot him 50 times?!!!



In your example... the next guy wont' push you in the club..

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## gst528i

> In your example... the next guy wont' push you in the club..


well put... 
Just as i said, i dont thing anyone would put down a gun if the other guy brought a knife to the battle...

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## smokethedays

> well put... 
> Just as i said, i dont thing anyone would put down a gun if the other guy brought a knife to the battle...


I don't want this to turn into an argument, but the unfrotunatley the enitre world knows the TRUTH of the Israeli/Arab conflict ecept here in the US where people are brainwashed to accept the Zionist propaganda who with their invisible hand move the chess pieces around.

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## goose

Lets go hardcore,if you got the time read this!

http://www.rense.com/general34/amaz.htm

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## smokethedays

> Lets go hardcore,if you got the time read this!
> 
> http://www.rense.com/general34/amaz.htm


Wow  :Thumps Up:  great read Goose, Fantastic.

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## goose

> Wow  great read Goose, Fantastic.


I know its shocking,I have checked sources and its accurate.

This is the full deeper study.I could not believe it.


http://www.themodernreligion.com/jihad/freedman.html

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## amcon

mad max read it and go slow...

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## gst528i

> I don't want this to turn into an argument, but the unfrotunatley the enitre world knows the TRUTH of the Israeli/Arab conflict ecept here in the US where people are brainwashed to accept the Zionist propaganda who with their invisible hand move the chess pieces around.


As right as you can be there's always two sides to an issue. One hand you have the zionist's and the other the extremists of the arab world. Neither of which want to compromise. in the end both are going to loose and we are gonna go down with them.

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## smokethedays

> As right as you can be there's always two sides to an issue. One hand you have the zionist's and the other the extremists of the arab world. Neither of which want to compromise. in the end both are going to loose and we are gonna go down with them.


Arabs don't have to compromise what they own. Although no one is saying that Israel should be wiped out, but they should know and understand that they are STEALING the land and killing the people who live on it.

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## amcon

do you know the liniage(sp) of the arabs do some research on that subject... that will tell you alot... look for where they came from

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## smokethedays

> do you know the liniage(sp) of the arabs do some research on that subject... that will tell you alot... look for where they came from


So now its the problem of who came from where?!!

apparently you are missing the point here sir, the read is arguing the false claims by the "Jews" about Palestine being their land while it is simply not.

Your ignorance making you generalize Arabs as whole, we are talking about Israeli Jews and Israel as a state, not Jews in general. Arabs have Christians, Muslims, and Jews amongst them.

So stop arguing out of subject.

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## Matt

Cool avatar Smoke..

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## smokethedays

> Cool avatar Smoke..


 :Wink/Grin:  thx.

Believe it or not, I wore that around my neck, I got dirty looks from some people.

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## KZRSOIZE

TOTALLY AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!Friggin amazing.....






> Israel is butchering the Palestinians while the entire world is watching with an American/Egyptian green light.
> 
> That is a sad day for mankind. When a city is been under siege for months and months until food, medicine, power, and clean water became as scarce as never. Hospitals are overwhelmed and don't have enough supplies to face the massacre commited by Israel against innocents.
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/***1662.stm
> 
> http://english.aljazeera.net/news/mi...814984286.html

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## amcon

thats not off subject it is the reason for all the issues in the middle east and will be till the time comes ... hey dont get mad about it, i have some very good friends from the middle east...

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## amcon

are you in the middle east? or from some where over there?

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## amcon

sorry one more thing about the jews - get ready cause the migration to israel is going to be huge over the next few years, i think they have migrated some 3 million people back to israel... expect them to take back the gaza strip and maybe even more... dont be suprised if china jumps in to help as well... and dont get mad at me about it, i dont tell the jews where to shoot their rockets or what land to call their own... i do study how it all came about and trully belive that each side has to come to some kind of peace about all of it... but as you and i know they absolutly will not !!! boom boom goes the night!!! sadly

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## NewMuscle83

Man, so much misinformation out there, no wonder the opinions are all over the map.

This has not been going for thousands of years. Jewish migration to Palestine began in the early 1900's to escape increasing anti-semitisim in europe. Palestinians welcomed them and lived together in peace for the most part. Then, migration increased in the tens and hundreds of thousands by the 1930's, which led to the first real Palestinian revolt in 1936. By the 1940's, and as a major result of the holocaust, jewish migration was larger than ever, and the western world was feeling bad for the jews who now need a new homeland. The UN decided to partition Palestine in 1947, and the Palestinians refused. The 1948 war took place, and powered by British and American money and arms, the jews were able to establish the state of Israel. The rest is history.

People tend to try to save the boat by shoveling water buckets, instead of looking for the hole to patch it. Let's all examine the source of the problem before we can solve it.

It is true that Hamas has been firing rockets daily since the expiration of the cease-fire one week ago, but has anyone wondered why? Could it be the fact that for the past 3 years Gaza has been the largest open-air prison on earth? Where 1.5 million people have been fenced in by concrete walls and sniper towers; where unemployment reaches over 70%, and poverty is the norm; where basic life essentials like water (clean or dirty), electricity, and food have been forbidden...Do you think that would drive you to fire a rocket? 

Get real. Palestinian are one of the most oppressed people on earth. Like it or not, it is one of the major conflicts in the world that is shaping current politics. Isreal invaded a land they don't deserve, killed, raped, and pillaged, and created 8 million refugees. The "lucky" few who remained inside are facing living conditions that are atrocious.

Isreal is the one refusing peace. Most of the Palestinian (and Israeli) public wants to live in one democratic nation where both peoples can co-exist. Zionist Israelis, however, want a jewish-only country. That just blows my mind that it's going on. I bet you 100 years from now, people will view this situation in the same eye we view "no coloreds allowed" signs on white businesses.

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## amcon

i will post why this has been going on for thousands of years... just to late to do so and i have to pull out two books to do so and get acurate info... tomorrow night all - and lets pray for the soles over their that they do get peace...

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## Matt

> Man, so much misinformation out there, no wonder the opinions are all over the map.
> 
> This has not been going for thousands of years. Jewish migration to Palestine began in the early 1900's to escape increasing anti-semitisim in europe. Palestinians welcomed them and lived together in peace for the most part. Then, migration increased in the tens and hundreds of thousands by the 1930's, which led to the first real Palestinian revolt in 1936. By the 1940's, and as a major result of the holocaust, jewish migration was larger than ever, and the western world was feeling bad for the jews who now need a new homeland. The UN decided to partition Palestine in 1947, and the Palestinians refused. The 1948 war took place, and powered by British and American money and arms, the jews were able to establish the state of Israel. The rest is history.
> 
> People tend to try to save the boat by shoveling water buckets, instead of looking for the hole to patch it. Let's all examine the source of the problem before we can solve it.
> 
> It is true that Hamas has been firing rockets daily since the expiration of the cease-fire one week ago, but has anyone wondered why? Could it be the fact that for the past 3 years Gaza has been the largest open-air prison on earth? Where 1.5 million people have been fenced in by concrete walls and sniper towers; where unemployment reaches over 70%, and poverty is the norm; where basic life essentials like water (clean or dirty), electricity, and food have been forbidden...Do you think that would drive you to fire a rocket? 
> 
> Get real. Palestinian are one of the most oppressed people on earth. Like it or not, it is one of the major conflicts in the world that is shaping current politics. Isreal invaded a land they don't deserve, killed, raped, and pillaged, and created 8 million refugees. The "lucky" few who remained inside are facing living conditions that are atrocious.
> ...


I guess that just about sums it up, great post...

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## spywizard

> Man, so much misinformation out there, no wonder the opinions are all over the map.
> 
> This has not been going for thousands of years. Jewish migration to Palestine began in the early 1900's to escape increasing anti-semitisim in europe. Palestinians welcomed them and lived together in peace for the most part. Then, migration increased in the tens and hundreds of thousands by the 1930's, which led to the first real Palestinian revolt in 1936. By the 1940's, and as a major result of the holocaust, jewish migration was larger than ever, and the western world was feeling bad for the jews who now need a new homeland. The UN decided to partition Palestine in 1947, and the Palestinians refused. The 1948 war took place, and powered by British and American money and arms, the jews were able to establish the state of Israel. The rest is history.
> 
> People tend to try to save the boat by shoveling water buckets, instead of looking for the hole to patch it. Let's all examine the source of the problem before we can solve it.
> 
> It is true that Hamas has been firing rockets daily since the expiration of the cease-fire one week ago, but has anyone wondered why? Could it be the fact that for the past 3 years Gaza has been the largest open-air prison on earth? Where 1.5 million people have been fenced in by concrete walls and sniper towers; where unemployment reaches over 70%, and poverty is the norm; where basic life essentials like water (clean or dirty), electricity, and food have been forbidden...Do you think that would drive you to fire a rocket? 
> 
> Get real. Palestinian are one of the most oppressed people on earth. Like it or not, it is one of the major conflicts in the world that is shaping current politics. Isreal invaded a land they don't deserve, killed, raped, and pillaged, and created 8 million refugees. The "lucky" few who remained inside are facing living conditions that are atrocious.
> ...



Sounds like the muslims moving into Europe right now doesn't it?? all they need is arms and support from ??? Seria?? just an observation, those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it..

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## Voland

> Arabs don't have to compromise what they own. Although no one is saying that Israel should be wiped out, but they should know and understand that they are STEALING the land and killing the people who live on it.


1. Very true. as a neutral part. 
If some a hole entered my apartment and occupied my living room, 1 sleeping room and one bathroom i prolly kick his fukking ass. Compromise? WTF. I would have no compromise with someone who steal my home. Even if my home is a kaos, and ugly its MY kaos and ugly home and i love it. It you try to steal it i would fight till the end. Even if the asshole is a bigass mofo, rich and with lots of influences. 

2. As a non-neutral part. Germany should have stopped decades ago giving israel money. WTF is that? everlasting israels bank? NO WAY. I dont want European taxes used to kill innocent people. 
oh and btw i still don't know why European Champion League has teams from israel, which is NOT Europe. 
All i can say i shame on us European for letting israel grow bigger and bigger and more powerfull...hope karma exist and tables turn in the end.

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## Voland

> thx.
> 
> Believe it or not, I wore that around my neck, I got dirty looks from some people.


its very popular in spain and in europe in general. its both used by lefties and by righties. lol.

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## NewMuscle83

> I dont want European taxes used to kill innocent people.


I guess nobody told you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel-...ates_relations

Well, allow me to quote;

"Since the 1970s, Israel has been one of the top recipients of U.S. foreign aid.[16] While it is mostly military aid, in the past a portion was dedicated to economic assistance. In 2004, the second-largest recipient of economic foreign aid from the United States was Israel, second to Iraq. In terms of per capita value Israel ranks first.[17]

In 2007, the United States increased its military aid to Israel by over 25% to an average of $3 billion per year for the following ten year period, while ending economic aid.[18][19]

In 1998, Israeli, congressional, and Administration officials agreed to reduce U.S. $1.2 billion in Economic Support Funds (ESF) to zero over ten years, while increasing Foreign Military Financing (FMF) from $1.8 billion to $2.4 billion. Separate from the scheduled cuts, there was an extra $200 million in anti-terror assistance, $1.2 billion to implement the Wye agreement, and the supplemental appropriations bill assisted for another $1 billion in FMF for the 2003 fiscal year. For the 2005 fiscal year, Israel received $2.202 billion in FMF, $357 million in ESF, and migration settlement assistance of $50 million. For 2006, the Administration has requested $240 million in ESF and $2.28 billion in FMF. H.R. 3057, passed in the House on June 28, 2005, and in the Senate on July 20, approves these amounts. House and Senate measures also support $40 million for the settlement of migrants from the former Soviet Union and take note of Israel's plan to bring remaining Ethiopian Jews to Israel in three years.[citation needed]

Israeli press reported that Israel is requesting about $2.25 billion in special aid in a mix of grants and loan guarantees over four years, with one-third to be used to relocate military bases from the Gaza Strip to Israel in the disengagement from the Gaza Strip and the rest to develop the Negev and Galilee regions of Israel and for other purposes, but none to help compensate settlers or for other civilian aspects of the disengagement. An Israeli team has visited Washington to present elements of the request, and preliminary discussions are underway. No formal request has been presented to Congress. In light of the costs inflicted on the United States by Hurricane Katrina, an Israeli delegation intending to discuss the aid canceled a trip to Washington.

Congress has legislated other special provisions regarding aid to Israel. Since the 1980s, ESF and FMF have been provided as all grant cash transfers, not designated for particular projects, transferred as a lump sum in the first month of the fiscal year, instead of in periodic increments. Israel is allowed to spend about one-quarter of the military aid for the procurement in Israel of defense articles and services, including research and development, rather than in the United States. Finally, to help Israel out of its economic slump, the U.S. provided $9 billion in loan guarantees over three years, use of which has since been extended to 2008. As of July 2005, Israel had not used $4.9 billion of the guarantees."

------------------------

Where do you think this money is coming from? American tax payers like you and I. The same American tax payers who are currently broke, and jobless. Back in 2005 I believe the average American annual income was around $28,000. At the same time, the average Israeli annual income was over $31,000. I wonder where it's at today.

Just something to think about..

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## Fat Guy

> Man, so much misinformation out there, no wonder the opinions are all over the map.
> 
> This has not been going for thousands of years. Jewish migration to Palestine began in the early 1900's to escape increasing anti-semitisim in europe. Palestinians welcomed them and lived together in peace for the most part. Then, migration increased in the tens and hundreds of thousands by the 1930's, which led to the first real Palestinian revolt in 1936. By the 1940's, and as a major result of the holocaust, jewish migration was larger than ever, and the western world was feeling bad for the jews who now need a new homeland. The UN decided to partition Palestine in 1947, and the Palestinians refused. The 1948 war took place, and powered by British and American money and arms, the jews were able to establish the state of Israel. The rest is history.
> 
> People tend to try to save the boat by shoveling water buckets, instead of looking for the hole to patch it. Let's all examine the source of the problem before we can solve it.
> 
> It is true that Hamas has been firing rockets daily since the expiration of the cease-fire one week ago, but has anyone wondered why? Could it be the fact that for the past 3 years Gaza has been the largest open-air prison on earth? Where 1.5 million people have been fenced in by concrete walls and sniper towers; where unemployment reaches over 70%, and poverty is the norm; where basic life essentials like water (clean or dirty), electricity, and food have been forbidden...Do you think that would drive you to fire a rocket? 
> 
> Get real. Palestinian are one of the most oppressed people on earth. Like it or not, it is one of the major conflicts in the world that is shaping current politics. Isreal invaded a land they don't deserve, killed, raped, and pillaged, and created 8 million refugees. The "lucky" few who remained inside are facing living conditions that are atrocious.
> ...


Thank you

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## Fat Guy

> I guess nobody told you.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel-...ates_relations
> 
> Well, allow me to quote;
> 
> "Since the 1970s, Israel has been one of the top recipients of U.S. foreign aid.[16] While it is mostly military aid, in the past a portion was dedicated to economic assistance. In 2004, the second-largest recipient of economic foreign aid from the United States was Israel, second to Iraq. In terms of per capita value Israel ranks first.[17]
> 
> In 2007, the United States increased its military aid to Israel by over 25% to an average of $3 billion per year for the following ten year period, while ending economic aid.[18][19]
> ...


Thank you again

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## amcon

i will tie this all to gather:
1 - israel "took" land away from someone - it was their to start
2 - y usa and europe support israel
3 - where a certian civilations came from

... got a go do back now

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## Fat Guy

I feel it is important to point out that the Israeli leaders are hardcore Zionist and what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians is what the Germans do to the Jews back in the 30’s… But the difference is the Israelis are backed by the U.S. because of religious belief systems. This could turn out ugly…

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## Fat Guy

> i will tie this all to gather:
> 1 - israel "took" land away from someone -* it was their to start** WRONG* Arabs coexisted on that land for many years and at one point there were more Arabs than Jews
> 2 - y usa and europe support israel Because of the religious belief of the second coming of Christ will only happen when the chosen people (Jews) return to their homeland
> 3 - where a certian civilations came from
> 
> ... got a go do back now


These are a lot of misnomers.

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## smokethedays

> sorry one more thing about the jews - get ready cause the migration to israel is going to be huge over the next few years, i think they have migrated some 3 million people back to israel... expect them to take back the gaza strip and maybe even more... dont be suprised if china jumps in to help as well... and dont get mad at me about it, i dont tell the jews where to shoot their rockets or what land to call their own... i do study how it all came about and trully belive that each side has to come to some kind of peace about all of it... but as you and i know they absolutly will not !!! boom boom goes the night!!! sadly


With all respect to your opinion, and like I said before, the only side needs to compromise is Israel. Palestinians compromised 80% of their land so far, what else do you want them to compromise?!! They got nothing to offer!!

Just to open your eyes on something here man, what you guys here and see on the news and the internet is BULLSHIT.

I lived in the mid east for long, I have friends who managed to escape Gaza strip, these people are not even allowed to LEAVE to go to other Arab countries to attend college my friend.

Israel locked these people down in their own land and houses, Israel is telling these people what they can and cannot do. How fair is that?

How would you like it to be told that you cannot leave the country, you cannot go to school, you cannot dream of a better life, you cannot, you cannot, you just cannot anything.

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## smokethedays

> Man, so much misinformation out there, no wonder the opinions are all over the map.
> 
> This has not been going for thousands of years. Jewish migration to Palestine began in the early 1900's to escape increasing anti-semitisim in europe. Palestinians welcomed them and lived together in peace for the most part. Then, migration increased in the tens and hundreds of thousands by the 1930's, which led to the first real Palestinian revolt in 1936. By the 1940's, and as a major result of the holocaust, jewish migration was larger than ever, and the western world was feeling bad for the jews who now need a new homeland. The UN decided to partition Palestine in 1947, and the Palestinians refused. The 1948 war took place, and powered by British and American money and arms, the jews were able to establish the state of Israel. The rest is history.
> 
> People tend to try to save the boat by shoveling water buckets, instead of looking for the hole to patch it. Let's all examine the source of the problem before we can solve it.
> 
> It is true that Hamas has been firing rockets daily since the expiration of the cease-fire one week ago, but has anyone wondered why? Could it be the fact that for the past 3 years Gaza has been the largest open-air prison on earth? Where 1.5 million people have been fenced in by concrete walls and sniper towers; where unemployment reaches over 70%, and poverty is the norm; where basic life essentials like water (clean or dirty), electricity, and food have been forbidden...Do you think that would drive you to fire a rocket? 
> 
> Get real. Palestinian are one of the most oppressed people on earth. Like it or not, it is one of the major conflicts in the world that is shaping current politics. Isreal invaded a land they don't deserve, killed, raped, and pillaged, and created 8 million refugees. The "lucky" few who remained inside are facing living conditions that are atrocious.
> ...


Finally some educated post :thumbup:

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## smokethedays

> I guess nobody told you.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel-...ates_relations
> 
> Well, allow me to quote;
> 
> "Since the 1970s, Israel has been one of the top recipients of U.S. foreign aid.[16] While it is mostly military aid, in the past a portion was dedicated to economic assistance. In 2004, the second-largest recipient of economic foreign aid from the United States was Israel, second to Iraq. In terms of per capita value Israel ranks first.[17]
> 
> In 2007, the United States increased its military aid to Israel by over 25% to an average of $3 billion per year for the following ten year period, while ending economic aid.[18][19]
> ...


Israel in a fvckin' LEECH. thats all, a mnipulative filthy leech.

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## smokethedays

> i will tie this all to gather:
> 1 - israel "took" land away from someone - it was their to start
> 2 - y usa and europe support israel
> 3 - where a certian civilations came from
> 
> ... got a go do back now


Maaan you are really unaware of history body.

1- does that mean the Native American should fight you and get their land back? are you saying they have the right to kill you and rape your mother and sister?

2-US and Europe donnot support Israel, they have to show that to keep thier economic systems stable. Since Jews own the world's banking system my smart well informed friend

3- I really have no answer for such question, its meaningless.

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## smokethedays

> thats not off subject it is the reason for all the issues in the middle east and will be till the time comes ... hey dont get mad about it, i have some very good friends from the middle east...


Im not mad at all brother, I just feel frustrated when people argue using the BS propaganda you find anywhere on American TV like CNN or FOX.

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## jimmyinkedup

> I guess nobody told you.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel-...ates_relations
> 
> Well, allow me to quote;
> 
> "Since the 1970s, Israel has been one of the top recipients of U.S. foreign aid.[16] While it is mostly military aid, in the past a portion was dedicated to economic assistance. In 2004, the second-largest recipient of economic foreign aid from the United States was Israel, second to Iraq. In terms of per capita value Israel ranks first.[17]
> 
> In 2007, the United States increased its military aid to Israel by over 25% to an average of $3 billion per year for the following ten year period, while ending economic aid.[18][19]
> ...



Agreed but lets not make the mistake of US foreign aid being based on what is morally right...that would surely be a mistake....its a shame to say......

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## Fat Guy

*Here is a documentary explaining the Israeli Oppression to the Palestinians 

Watch it and learn something…. 



http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...umentary&hl=en*

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## smokethedays

> Sounds like the muslims moving into Europe right now doesn't it?? all they need is arms and support from ??? Seria?? just an observation, those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it..


Arabs don't want to leave thier land my friend, if you are interested in Anthropology you'll know that Arabs are nationalists, meaning they do not like to be away from their home land.

Now to answer your comment on Arabs and Muslims moving to Europe, that is not by choice, review the last 4-5 decades or the Arabs history and you will find it.

After the collapse of the Ottoman empire and after the English, Italian, and French empires divided the Middle East amongst them as if they inhireted the damn land from there fathers.

The national governments were INSTALLED by these empires to some extend, these corrupted governments oppressed their people just like the occupying empires did or worse.

What would you do?

My friend, up to 50 years ago in Egypt for example, you cannot go to any school you want, you cannot go to the military school either.
You have to have a permisson from a fvckin' English officer to join your own country's military or go to school.

The truth is that Europe is resposible for most of whats going on in the Middle East now. Europe divided the land, Eroupe exploited the people, Europe and specifically England promised the Jews "their promise land" through Balfour Promise.

What the fvck does England have to do wit Palestine to promise it to the Jews, how did that happen?!

what you said sound like like this: Why is my dog runnig away to the neighboors house and barking and bitting them, allI did is beat him up, starve him, and tried to make him sing  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  
I really think the last to blame are the Arabs my friend.

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## jimmyinkedup

> Agreed but lets not make the mistake of US foreign aid being based on what is morally right...that would surely be a mistake....its a shame to say......


To expand upon this point ..the US desperately needs allies in this region ...i do think however the short sightedness (on part of US) prevents the US leaders from seeing past consistent actions by israel and needs to realize once the isralies interests are met the US will bear the disdain of israel much like the middle east has for years and years....

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## NewMuscle83

> To expand upon this point ..the US desperately needs allies in this region ...i do think however the short sightedness (on part of US) prevents the US leaders from seeing past consistent actions by israel and needs to realize once the isralies interests are met the US will bear the disdain of israel much like the middle east has for years and years....


Ironically, the US desparately needs allies in the middle-east because of their relationship with Israel. If the US was not at the forefront of Israeli military aid that is used to occupy Arab land and kill its people, the US would not be the target of attacks and discontent from the Middle-east.

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## jimmyinkedup

^^ another short sightedness on the part of US diplomats (and citizens) and a very good point.... although not wholley responsible for discontent in middle east a huge factor that should not be overlooked...again great point

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## smokethedays

> Ironically, the US desparately needs allies in the middle-east because of their relationship with Israel. If the US was not at the forefront of Israeli military aid that is used to occupy Arab land and kill its people, the US would not be the target of attacks and discontent from the Middle-east.


Excatly, all these so called "terroirsts and Jihadists" have one request, for the US to stop their intereference in the Middle East and internal Arab govermnets affairs just to guarantee Israel superiority.

And yes I do blame the US for the terrorism that killed and still killing 100's of people every where.
If it wasn't fot the US the afghanies would still living in their caves in the mountains of Tora Bora and never learn jack shit, it was the US who trained them and financed them in the 80's. And now they back fired at the US and the Arab countries as well.

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## MuscleScience

Correct me if I am wrong because I am no biblical scholar but didnt the Jews take Israel from the Canaanites many thousands of years ago and settled there. Only to be conquered and pushed out by Babylon, the Persians, Greeks, Romes and Ottman Turks, and probably a few others I am forgetting about in between only to see the dominate power fall. So because the Arabs were the latest to conquer Israel if you will that makes it their land? 

Just a question, because I do not understand why anyone hates the jews. I can understand the Canaanites but they have not been around for thousands of years.

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## NewMuscle83

Jews left that land a couple of thousands of years ago. They then spread all over the world, mainly in europe, as well as ethiopia, and other arab countries like yaman and iraq. They have not been in there for a long long time. In the early 1900's before jewish migration started to get crazy, the population in palestine was 90% muslim, 5% christian, and 5% jewish. They all co-existed in peace until the jewish ambitions got unrealistic.

the jews literally came in there 60-80 years ago and started killing, burning, and raping, and they settled in the land. Thousand of Palestinians still have their house keys that jews reside in now after they kicked out the residents and sent them to refugee camps.

Yeah, I think that would make it their land.

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## smokethedays

> Correct me if I am wrong because I am no biblical scholar but didnt the Jews take Israel from the Canaanites many thousands of years ago and settled there. Only to be conquered and pushed out by Babylon, the Persians, Greeks, Romes and Ottman Turks, and probably a few others I am forgetting about in between only to see the dominate power fall. So because the Arabs were the latest to conquer Israel if you will that makes it their land? 
> 
> Just a question, because I do not understand why anyone hates the jews. I can understand the Canaanites but they have not been around for thousands of years.


That is the problem here, no one here hates the Jews, at least not me. My GF is Jewish for god's sake.

I hate Israel and their doings, thats all.
Besides lets go through the hisotrical land issue, suppose all that you just said is correct.
now after 1000's of years the Jews decide to claim where they lived (not their land, no ones land, they just lived there)
But oops, there are people living here now, there are churches and mosques, an entire population is here.

Ok lets be sneaky as we always been (the Jews) and migrate their slowly, offer these poor peasants money for thier field and land way more than its worth. No lets form some sort of a ganag (the Hagganah) and steel some more land (not pay for it) and that is where the 1st clashes happened.
form some sort of colony of the land we bought/stole. 
Now the fights get larger and become a war, ans the Jews steal more land and declare a state  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  How do you like this scenario?

If the Jews were honest about just finiding peace and escaping the hatred in Europe why did they have to do what they did? fight the Palestinians for their land after the Palestinians welcomed them?
The Jews took advantage and called upon all the Jews in the world to go back to the "promise land" and fight the Arabs who welcomed them after being exterminated and exploited in Europe.

They could have just lived peacefully, Jews always lived amogst Muslims and Arabs before the rise of Israel with no issues. Up until now there are temples in Egypt for the Jews. 

The Jews have always been a part of the Arab community until the rise of shit state Israel. They were never oppressed until the Jews in Palestine started killing the Palestinians, then the Arabs didn't want them anymore, check the history brother. These are facts not fiction like 99% of the Israeli tales.

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## jimmyinkedup

yeah i dont think the original occupation theory holds a lot of water i mean look at the roman empire....the huns....the turks .....the persians...the macedonians ...france under napoleon ...spanish occupation of entire southern hemisphere ...later the english .....would the unlawful occupation of previously held land be justified in those cases as well ? the guise of religon is being used as the foundation and justification for out and out crimes against humanity.....no better than the holocaust that they (jewish people) were victims of themselves....

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## smokethedays

> yeah i dont think the original occupation theory holds a lot of water i mean look at the roman empire....the huns....the turks .....the persians...the macedonians ...france under napoleon ...spanish occupation of entire southern hemisphere ...later the english .....would the unlawful occupation of previously held land be justified in those cases as well ? the guise of religon is being used as the foundation and justification for out and out crimes against humanity.....no better than the holocaust that they (jewish people) were victims of themselves....


 :Thumps Up:  nice post bro.

Now the Jews are throughing the Palestinians in a Jewish made holocaust.

They locked Gaza down to experiment how much can the Palestinians survive with out medical care, energy, food and other life neccessities.

Palestinians are back 100's of years ago to use wood for cooking and energy and light, herbs for medicine, and wild plants for food.

This isn't BS check it.

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## smokethedays

Check out Hamas soldiers like Israel claims

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## amcon

REAL QUICK I GOT GO ...

This declaration by a true "Palestinian" should have some significance for a sincerely neutral observer. Indeed, there is no such a thing like a Palestinian people, or a Palestinian culture, or a Palestinian language, or a Palestinian history. There has never been any Palestinian state, neither any Palestinian archaeological find nor coinage. The present-day "Palestinians" are an Arab people, with Arab culture, Arabic language and Arab history. They have their own Arab states from where they came into the Land of Israel about one century ago to contrast the Jewish immigration. That is the historical truth. They were Jordanians (another recent British invention, as there has never been any people known as "Jordanians"), and after the Six-Day War in which Israel utterly defeated the coalition of nine Arab states and took legitimate possession of Judea and Samaria, the Arab dwellers in those regions underwent a kind of anthropological miracle and discovered that they were Palestinians - something they did not know the day before. Of course, these people having a new identity had to build themselves a history, namely, had to steal some others' history, and the only way that the victims of the theft would not complain is if those victims do no longer exist. Therefore, the Palestinian leaders claimed two contradictory lineages from ancient peoples that inhabited in the Land of Israel: the Canaanites and the Philistines. Let us consider both of them before going on with the Palestinian issue.

The Canaanites:

The Canaanites are historically acknowledged as the first inhabitants of the Land of Israel, before the Hebrews settled there. Indeed, the correct geographic name of the Land of Israel is Canaan, not "Palestine" (a Roman invention, as we will see later). They were composed by different tribes, that may be distinguished in two main groups: the Northern or Coastland Canaanites and the Southern or Mountain Canaanites. 
·The Northern Canaanites settled along the coast of the Mediterranean Sea from the southeastern side of the Gulf of Iskenderun to the proximities of the Gulf of Hayfa. Their main cities were Tzur, Tzidon, Gebal (Byblos), Arvad, Ugarit, and are better known in history by their Greek name Phoenicians, but they called themselves "Kana'ana" or "Kinachnu". They did not found any unified kingdom but were organized in self-ruled cities, and were not a warlike people but rather skilful traders, seafarers and builders. Their language was adopted from their Semitic neighbours, the Arameans, and was closely related to Hebrew (not to Arabic!). Phoenicians and Israelites did not need interpreters to understand each other. They followed the same destiny of ancient Israel and fell under Assyrian rule, then Babylonian, Persian, Macedonian, Seleucian and Roman. Throughout their history the Phoenicians intermarried with different peoples that dwelled in their land, mainly Greeks and Armenians. During the Islamic expansion they were Arabized, yet, never completely assimilated, and their present-day state is Lebanon, erroneously regarded as an "Arab" country, a label that the Lebanese people reject. Unlike the Arab states, Lebanon has a western democratic-style official name, "Lebanese Republic", without the essential adjective "Arab" that is required in the denominations of every Arab state. The only mention of the term Arabic in the Lebanese constitution refers to the official language of the state, which does not mean that the Lebanese people are Arabs in the same way as the official language of the United States is English but this does not qualify the Americans as British. 
The so-called Palestinians are not Lebanese (although some of them came from Syrian-occupied Lebanon), therefore they are not Phoenicians (Northern Canaanites). Actually, in Lebanon they are "refugees" and are not identified with the local people. 
·The Southern Canaanites dwelled in the mountain region from the Golan southwards, on both sides of the Yarden and along the Mediterranean coast from the Gulf of Hayfa to Yafo, that is the Biblical Canaan. They were composed by various tribes of different stocks: besides the proper Canaanites (Phoenicians), there were Amorites, Hittites and Hurrian peoples like the Yevusites, Hivvites and Horites, all of them assimilated into the Aramean-Canaanite context. They never constituted an unified, organized state but kept within the tribal ******** system

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## Fat Guy

*Watch this documentary...*

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...umentary&hl=en

BTW... It does not matter the history of a people who are being oppressed but the only thing that matters is that the oppression stops .

I think the question here you have to ask is. Why would a person throw a rock at an armored tank or do a suicide bombing as a political statement there has to be some real reasons why someone would do that and this is not an isolated case with the Palestinians. This is not just religious fundamentalism Its about power & oppression over a people and what would you do if you were being oppressed? Fight Back.

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## Older lifter

Well,,, you keep poking a tiger with a stick and it will bite back, they knew exactly what Isreal would do... 

How would America react if someone was launching rockets into there country... uhhh

Least they have the balls to know that talk talk talk doesn't work all the times and they have the balls to not take sh*t.

If there is going to be a jehad or whatever, let get it over with......

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## amcon

i dont watch tv... i read alot - i will post something later just been way to busy... good luck

----------


## Edgar

> Well,,, you keep poking a tiger with a stick and it will bite back, they knew exactly what Isreal would do... 
> 
> How would America react if someone was launching rockets into there country... uhhh
> 
> Least they have the balls to know that talk talk talk doesn't work all the times and they have the balls to not take sh*t.
> 
> If there is going to be a jehad or whatever, let get it over with......


Bro are you on tren ? you are on tren you manimal!!!!!  :LOL:

----------


## Edgar

hey bros, do you guys realize there is nuclear in the midleeast, and on both sides, what do you think the future holds for the midleeast one day. It will be a lesson for the hole world to learn that no one will ever forget!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its coming sooner or later!!

----------


## xlxBigSexyxlx

Lets just blow everything the **** up


and thank religion later...

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## gst528i

> hey bros, do you guys realize there is nuclear in the midleeast, and on both sides, what do you think the future holds for the midleeast one day. It will be a lesson for the hole world to learn that no one will ever forget!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its coming sooner or later!!


Huh? i thought only pakistan was the only nuclear country that is under muslim control?
India is too but they are not considered to be a muslim controlled. I believe they do have a high muslim population though.

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## gst528i

> Lets just blow everything the **** up
> 
> 
> and thank religion later...


I think the best would be everyone to convert themselves to muslims. That was they will not consider anyone who is not a muslim infidels and we can all be brothers. 
Then when we die we can figure out which heaven or hell to go.
(on a plus note it would make my GF happy (she is muslim))

----------


## smokethedays

> Well,,, you keep poking a tiger with a stick and it will bite back, they knew exactly what Isreal would do... 
> 
> *How would America react if someone was launching rockets into there country... uhhh*
> 
> Least they have the balls to know that talk talk talk doesn't work all the times and they have the balls to not take sh*t.
> 
> If there is going to be a jehad or whatever, let get it over with......


Wow bro you are way off.

The Jews stole and continue to steal the Palestinians lands, demolish their homes to build new homes for Jewish immigrants.

How would America like it if a Muslim comes to your home with a buldozer and demolish your home on your family inside to build his house, just because he is more powerful than you?

----------


## Edgar

> Huh? i thought only pakistan was the only nuclear country that is under muslim control?
> India is too but they are not considered to be a muslim controlled. I believe they do have a high muslim population though.


do you beleive that Iran does not have nuclear? why is that.

----------


## smokethedays

> do you beleive that Iran does not have nuclear? why is that.


Iran don't have shit bro.

the only 3 have it around there is Israel, Paki, and India.

That being said, Israel has the world's 6th largest nuclear arsenal with over 200 nuclear war heads and bombs.

----------


## Fat Guy

> Well,,, you keep poking a tiger with a stick and it will bite back, they knew exactly what Isreal would do... 
> 
> How would America react if someone was launching rockets into there country... uhhh
> 
> Least they have the balls to know that talk talk talk doesn't work all the times and they have the balls to not take sh*t.
> 
> If there is going to be a jehad or whatever, let get it over with......


This is a misinformed post... No disrespect to you Old Lifter but these people are fighting for their land and freedom of *ZIONIST* *Jewish Occupation*. You should watch the documentary posted on this thread.

----------


## Panzerfaust

> Lets go hardcore,if you got the time read this!
> 
> http://www.rense.com/general34/amaz.htm



I wonder where you got this link? 

You dirty Jew! haha

----------


## ClubberLangsUncle

Ever herd of a Jewish terrorist strapping bombs to his chest and blowing up a Kindergarden?? Nope, eradicate the muslims before they eradicate the rest of the world. As far as Hamas, they hide behind the innocent, so they get the innocent killed with them.

----------


## smokethedays

> Ever herd of a Jewish terrorist strapping bombs to his chest and blowing up a Kindergarden?? Nope, eradicate the muslims before they eradicate the rest of the world. As far as Hamas, they hide behind the innocent, so they get the innocent killed with them.


Why don't you go get some education 1st, before you get punked.

----------


## ClubberLangsUncle

How is that not educated. There is alot more people out there that feel the same way.

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## amcon

it is not feel that way it is the way it is... like it or not... but remember 95% of muslims are not raticals... 95% of jews are not either 

clubber i think you made a solid, but unpopular point

----------


## gst528i

> Ever herd of a Jewish terrorist strapping bombs to his chest and blowing up a Kindergarden?? Nope, eradicate the muslims before they eradicate the rest of the world. As far as Hamas, they hide behind the innocent, so they get the innocent killed with them.


While your point is one sided it does have truth to a certain extent. But i can not say that the full muslim population agree with blowing up a kindergarden. While thier religion does teach them to sacrifice them selves in the name of god i think the radicals just have a misinterpreted meaning.
I dont think any one's god would want to hurt anyone just becoz they are not muslims. As far as the 70or 72 virgins in heaven i think thats a load of crap. (no disrespect but i cant imagine a god of lust that gives motivation through lust.)
That being said, why the jews dont blow up building of other countries i dont know but they sure are doing a good job in the gaza strip.

----------


## gst528i

> do you beleive that Iran does not have nuclear? why is that.


good point. Which reminds me, syria almost got their hands on nuclear material. Fortunately Israel blew the facility right of the face of the earth. It was an amazing mission that was a good read. Here is the summary
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2461421.ece

I got to say when it comes to covert millitary options these guys are freaking smart. They found some way to avoid radar in regular f-15 planes.

----------


## amcon

part one

Jews and Palestine

The Jews rejected their savior Jesus, and thus have lost their saltiness, and until the Jews recover their savior the will continue to degenerate… this will continue till the judgment of nations (by God) putting the Jews among the nations (their will be sheep nations, and goat nations – thus the term “he is the goat’” neg term based on someone being the bad end of something) all the gentile nations (non Jew) will be judged and who ever helped the Jew will be a “sheep” and kept, and who is judged a “goat” as a nation will be in a bad way… 

Now this is well documented, in bc (before Christ) 1936, 412 years after the flood (you know the ark, animals and Noah) God called Abraham, a shemite, from ur of the caldees, to be the father of a new nation because of his faith…

“now the Lord said unto Abraham, get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will show thee; and I will make thee a grate nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great, and thou shalt be blessing’ and I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee, and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed” gen 12: 1-3

so understand Abraham is the father of Israel and thoughts who bless or help Israel will get a blessing… thoughts who curseth Israel will be cursed.

So be careful 

To recap that is why a Christian nation (though I question our direction as a country) would and is helping Israel… and I must admit that Israel at this point is lead by a man not Jesus or God so understanding we all originated from Adam and eve (dare you to challenge me on this I will crush any na sayers with copious amounts for info scientifically proving we are not from a monkey or some blob of dna – and be happy we are not) thus we all have Sin in our blood, the only way to be relived or forgiven of that Sin is to trust in our Lord Jesus Christ , not the Christ of the latter day saints or Jehovah witnesses or some other bull crap made up deity but the God of the king James Bible.


Ok… so now where did the Canaanites come from? Who were they?

1. The Youngest Son of Noah:
The youngest son of Noah, from whom sprang the western and southwestern nations known to the Hebrews. His name first occurs in Genesis 5:32, where, as in 6:10 and elsewhere, it occupies the second place. In Genesis 9:18 Ham is described as "the father of Canaan".
2. Ham as a Nationality (30 Nations came out of Ham): 
The name given, in Psalms 105:23,17; 106:22 (compare 78:51), to Egypt as a descendant of Ham, son of Noah. As Shem means "dusky," or the like, and Japheth "fair," it has been supposed that Ham meant, as is not improbable, "black." This is supported by the evidence of Hebrew and Arabic, in which the word chamam means "to be hot" and "to be black," the latter signification being derived from the former. 
It is interesting to note that the Biblical record defines Egypt as the Land of Ham. 
-- Psalm 105: 23 "Israel also came into Egypt...the land of Ham."
3. Meaning of the Word: 
That Ham is connected with the native name of Egypt, Kem, or, in full pa ta' en Kem, "the land of Egypt," in Bashmurian Coptic Kheme, is unlikely, as this form is probably of a much later date than the composition of Gen, and, moreover, as the Arabic shows, the guttural is not a true kh, but the hard breathing h, which are both represented by the Hebrew cheth.

4. The Nations Descending from Ham: 
First on the list, as being the darkest, is Cush or Ethiopia (Genesis 10:6), after which comes Mitsrayim, or Egypt, then PuT or Libyia, and Canaan last. The sons or descendants of each of these are then taken in turn, and it is noteworthy that some of them, like the Ethiopians and the Canaanites, spoke Semitic, and not Hamitic, languages--Seba (if connected with the Sabeans), Havilah (Yemen), and Sheba, whose queen visited Solomon. Professor Sayce, moreover, has pointed out that Caphtor is the original home of the Phoenicians, who spoke a Semitic language. 
The explanation of this probably is that other tongues were forced upon these nationalities in consequence of their migrations, or because they fell under the dominion of nationalities alien to them. The non-Sem Babylonians, described as descendants of Nimrod (Merodach), as is well known, spoke Sumerian, and adopted Semitic Babylonian only on account of mingling with the Semites whom they found there. 
Another explanation is that the nationalities described as Hamitic--a parallel to those of the Semitic section--were so called because they fell under Egyptian dominion. This would make the original Hamitic race to have been Egyptian and account for Ham as a (poetical) designation of that nationality. Professor F. L. Griffith has pointed out that the Egyptian Priapic god of Panopolis (Akhmim), sometimes called Menu, but also apparently known as Khem, may have been identified with the ancestor of the Hamitic race--he was worshipped from the coast of the Red Sea to Coptos, and must have been well known to Egypt's eastern neighbors. He regards the characteristics of Menu as being in accord with the shamelessness of Ham as recorded in Genesis 9:20.
4. Four Sons of Ham (see map below):
1. Mizraim (Egypt)
2. Cush (Sudan, Ethiopia)
3. Put (Lybia)
4. Canaan (Hivites, Jebusites, Arvadites, Girgashites, Amorites, Arkites, Sinites, Hittites, 
Sidonians, Perizzites, Zemarites)
5. CURSE OF CANAAN
1. Canaan was cursed, not Ham. (Gen. 9:25, "...cursed be Canaan..."
2. Genesis 9:25-27 "...servitude to his brothers..."
3. Exodus 20:5 --" A curse lasts three to four generations..."
4. Canaan does not exist as a nation today. Other three nations exist -- Egypt, Ethiopia 
and Lybia.


ok so here we show that Canaan and Canaanites and Canaanites are decedents of Ham, Canaanites are Palestine… this is going to piss you off smokethedays and remember these are not my word by the holey words of moses!!! So enjoy 

-	genesis 9: 21 – 27

----------


## amcon

part two - 


and I quote – “*and he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered with in his tent”* speaking of Noah “ *and Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.”* Notice the WITHOUT – what does that mean? I will go further “ *and Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father’s and their face were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness.”* *“and Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him”* earlier it said Ham did something to Noah WITHOUT his other sons knowing, what could Ham the father of canaan have done to his own father(Noah)? It said Noah had woken and knew something happen to him… it didn’t say that the other bro’s told him… well it was sooooo baaad what Ham the father of Canaan did that he was cursed!!!!! It is thought by great scholars wide and far that the father of Canaan sodimized his own father (disgusting) and that make sense knowing more about why the flood originally happened God was looking to kill off all the Bad ideals that had developed (doing your dad in the butt is a bad ideal, any one will agree with that) on we go… *“ and he said, cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.”* So Noah cursed Canaan AND ALL OF HIS DECENDENTS = PALISTINE. Palestine is to be a servant to the other two brothers and ALL of their decedents. Don’t get mad at me I am just restating the history… “ 
"*and he said, blessed be the lord God of Shem, and Canaan shall be his servant.*” “* God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem and Canaan shall be his servant.*” 

so, that is why all the garbage is happening in that area… 

what that doesn’t settle is God gave another commandment when (I could not find the exact verses, but I am completely sure that the commandment was to kill all inhabitance of the land) the land was to be taken from the cursed linage of Ham. Israel did not complete the task led by Joshua… and actually I have had several discussion with theologians and doctorates of theology, and I understand the principal of concerning a nation but not killing the children and woman, never have been comfortable with this, I will say that typically woman are very influential and caused Israel to commit idolatry … so this I can not talk about with education because I just don’t understand it…

so in recapping that part the father of Canaan was cursed for doing homosexual things to his dad – gross!!! And Canaanites are the for fathers of Palestine. 

Now, all we have to understand is the Jews were given a land and then given a savior they blew the ability to accept and relish each – so both were take from them and given to other people now with the nation of Israel being established from the 6 day war, prophesy of end times seems close at hand… so, accept Jesus Christ as your savior, be born again in the Holly Spirit or if you are Jew run the Gauntlet with the 7 years of tribulation or “Jacob’s trouble” after the church has been raptured – either way in the end you will be glorified into a holly body, some will keep theirs and live in “heaven on earth” others will be raised and judged then burn in hell – good luck

----------


## smokethedays

> While your point is one sided it does have truth to a certain extent. But i can not say that the full muslim population agree with blowing up a kindergarden. While thier religion does teach them to sacrifice them selves in the name of god i think the radicals just have a misinterpreted meaning.
> I dont think any one's god would want to hurt anyone just becoz they are not muslims. *As far as the 70or 72 virgins in heaven i think thats a load of crap. (no disrespect but i cant imagine a god of lust that gives motivation through lust.)*
> That being said, why the jews dont blow up building of other countries i dont know but they sure are doing a good job in the gaza strip.


1st off, this is not a religion debate
2nd, this is not in Islam, its not in the Quran.
3rd I don't wanna get started on absurd shit in all religions out there, and there is a lot in ALL of them. So please don't go there in this thread.

----------


## smokethedays

> part one
> 
> Jews and Palestine
> 
> The Jews rejected their savior Jesus, and thus have lost their saltiness, and until the Jews recover their savior the will continue to degenerate this will continue till the judgment of nations (by God) putting the Jews among the nations (their will be sheep nations, and goat nations  thus the term he is the goat neg term based on someone being the bad end of something) all the gentile nations (non Jew) will be judged and who ever helped the Jew will be a sheep and kept, and who is judged a goat as a nation will be in a bad way 
> 
> Now this is well documented, in bc (before Christ) 1936, 412 years after the flood (you know the ark, animals and Noah) God called Abraham, a shemite, from ur of the caldees, to be the father of a new nation because of his faith
> 
> now the Lord said unto Abraham, get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy fathers house, unto a land that I will show thee; and I will make thee a grate nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great, and thou shalt be blessing and I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee, and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed gen 12: 1-3
> ...





> part two - 
> 
> 
> and I quote  *and he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered with in his tent* speaking of Noah  *and Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.* Notice the WITHOUT  what does that mean? I will go further  *and Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their fathers and their face were backward, and they saw not their fathers nakedness.* *and Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him* earlier it said Ham did something to Noah WITHOUT his other sons knowing, what could Ham the father of canaan have done to his own father(Noah)? It said Noah had woken and knew something happen to him it didnt say that the other bros told him well it was sooooo baaad what Ham the father of Canaan did that he was cursed!!!!! It is thought by great scholars wide and far that the father of Canaan sodimized his own father (disgusting) and that make sense knowing more about why the flood originally happened God was looking to kill off all the Bad ideals that had developed (doing your dad in the butt is a bad ideal, any one will agree with that) on we go * and he said, cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.* So Noah cursed Canaan AND ALL OF HIS DECENDENTS = PALISTINE. Palestine is to be a servant to the other two brothers and ALL of their decedents. Dont get mad at me I am just restating the history  
> "*and he said, blessed be the lord God of Shem, and Canaan shall be his servant.* * God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem and Canaan shall be his servant.* 
> 
> so, that is why all the garbage is happening in that area 
> 
> what that doesnt settle is God gave another commandment when (I could not find the exact verses, but I am completely sure that the commandment was to kill all inhabitance of the land) the land was to be taken from the cursed linage of Ham. Israel did not complete the task led by Joshua and actually I have had several discussion with theologians and doctorates of theology, and I understand the principal of concerning a nation but not killing the children and woman, never have been comfortable with this, I will say that typically woman are very influential and caused Israel to commit idolatry  so this I can not talk about with education because I just dont understand it
> ...


This is your source of information and judgment  :Jawdrop:  
No wonder you sound so ignorant.

----------


## BuffedGuy

In 1947, when the colonial entity known as Israel was created, the Jews only owned 6% of the land known as Israel/Palestine, whereas the Arabs owned 94%. The Israeli leader, Ben Gurion, lamented "The Arabs own 94% of the land, the Jews only 6%." (UNCCP document dated July 4, 1947, http://unispal.un.org/unispal.nsf/0/...1?OpenDocument)

So this is a very reliable United Nations source I am giving you that shows that the Jews owned only 6% of the land. This was just 50 years ago. So in just over fifty years, the Israelis have managed to diminish and destroy the Palestinian people altogether, and now Israelis own almost all of the land. 

The only appropriate analogy to give is what the Americans did to the Native Americans. A good portion of the Native Americans reacted to the occupation by resorting to terrorism: they would scalp the heads of women and children, do kidnappings, etc. 

But just because some of them did that, it does NOT negate the right of the Native Americans to the land.

Likewise, a good portion of the Palestinians have resorted to terror tactics, but this does not negate the fact that the Zionists are the ones who started it by invading the land of the native Palestinians.

EDIT: As a side-note, the 6% that the Jews owned was AFTER all the illegal tactics they used to buy that land...so even after many long years of illegal immigration and shady business deals involving intimidation and Jewish terrorism, EVEN STILL they only managed to own 6% of the land.

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## BuffedGuy

In regards to some of the "Jew-hating" posts in this thread, these are not helpful at all...I think you need to realize that there are many Jews who are opposed to Zionism and Israel. In fact, the vast majority of the orthodox Jews were opposed to the creation of the state of Israel. The initial Zionists were non-religious secularists. The orthodox Jews condemned them because they (the Zionists) were going against God by creating the state of Israel themselves (on the skulls of the Palestinians) instead of waiting for God's Decree.

Although over the years most orthodox Jews eventually have come to accept Israel--and many have even become oppressors themselves--a good deal of them have NOT. Here are some excellent sites for Jews Against Zionism:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

http://www.nkusa.org/

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/

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## gst528i

> 1st off, this is not a religion debate
> 2nd, this is not in Islam, its not in the Quran.
> 3rd I don't wanna get started on absurd shit in all religions out there, and there is a lot in ALL of them. So please don't go there in this thread.


I was not getting into a religion debate. I was countering generalizing that muslim people as bomb blowing suicide people.
2nd which other religion uses the quaran. correct me if im wrong but i though muslims that practice their islamic beliefs use the quaran?
3rd what does other religion absurd shyt have to do with another religions absurd shyt. I was pointing it out, glad to know u think its some of the absurd shyt as found in other religions which without a doubt are alot. 
ALL religions have alot of good but some bad after all man makes mistakes.

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## amcon

lol, if you could call doctorates of theology and people who have for some reason dedicated their full adult life to these questions. the jews like them or hate them have the longest and most accurated held manuscripts and parchments of documentation of not just (for lack of a better term) religous info but much much more... so, if being ignorant is quoteing and study these well respected people ... i will take that as a compliment. 

just for heck of it i will say ... i am not partial to muslim or jew or any other religion i do love God and enjoy studying the bible... and histroy

you how ever seem(and i am not calling you our on this) very angry... next time if you want post a thread and state who can and who can not respond - that will be helpful so we dont hurt your feelings(now that was a shot against you)

----------


## smokethedays

> lol, if you could call doctorates of theology and people who have for some reason dedicated their full adult life to these questions. *the jews like them or hate them have the longest and most accurated held manuscripts and parchments of documentation of not just (for lack of a better term) religous info but much much more... so, if being ignorant is quoteing and study these well respected people ... i will take that as a compliment.* 
> 
> just for heck of it i will say ... i am not partial to muslim or jew or any other religion i do love God and enjoy studying the bible... and histroy
> 
> you how ever seem(and i am not calling you our on this) very angry... next time if you want post a thread and state who can and who can not respond - that will be helpful so we dont hurt your feelings(now that was a shot against you)


Again, your ignorance making you see this personal, Iam definatley angry when I see children getting blown by bombs and some one like you, saying its ok!! 
What I marked in bold is seriously the most ignorant thing i read in this thread. You are really giving the Jews credit for falsifying the Bible?!!!

Every body knows this except you. And that's why you have over 600 different version of the Bible my friend. In plain words it is as credible as the Wall street Journal articles on AAS.

(with apology to any true christian believer, this is my opinion)

----------


## smokethedays

> I was not getting into a religion debate. I was countering generalizing that muslim people as bomb blowing suicide people.
> *2nd which other religion uses the quaran. correct me if im wrong but i though muslims that practice their islamic beliefs use the quaran?*
> 3rd what does other religion absurd shyt have to do with another religions absurd shyt. I was pointing it out, glad to know u think its some of the absurd shyt as found in other religions which without a doubt are alot. 
> ALL religions have alot of good but some bad after all man makes mistakes.


That's not what I meant bro. What I meant is that particular statment about 72 vergins in NOT in the Quran, just like other stuff in Christianity that people follow but not in the Bible.

Therefore, I don't believe in it as a Muslim. some choose to.

----------


## smokethedays

> lol, if you could call doctorates of theology and people who have for some reason dedicated their full adult life to these questions. the jews like them or hate them have the longest and most accurated held manuscripts and parchments of documentation of not just (for lack of a better term) religous info but much much more... so, if being ignorant is quoteing and study these well respected people ... i will take that as a compliment. 
> 
> just for heck of it i will say ... i am not partial to muslim or jew or any other religion i do love God and enjoy studying the bible... and histroy
> 
> you how ever seem(and i am not calling you our on this) very angry... next time if you want post a thread and state who can and who can not respond - that will be helpful so we dont hurt your feelings(now that was a shot against you)


and by the way, what makes your arguments here not valid and totally sci-fi is that you collected the info that you are arguing with from the most biased media on earth, the American media. you never lived there, seen anything except what the TV showed you my friend.

How are you judging such crucial confrontation just by listening to one biased side?!!! I lived most of my life there, and know how Israelies deal with us. 

The number one reason this world is on fire constanley is people like you who read the "holy" books (written by people like me and you) and apply them to true life. Iam a muslim but I know that my religion is nothing more than a guide for me to know what I should and shouldn't do. You see it as prophecies, and you think that your role is to help these "prophecies" become reality, that is where the problem.

You go keep reading you fairy tale book, and wait for the holy war and resurrection and all that sweet stuff that make go to sleep well at night accomplishing nothing excpet more ignorance.

----------


## amcon

read a little more or have some one read it to you slowly... i really am not comfrotable w any body getting killed, for any reason, 

so why do extremists exploite children? why do they strap bombs to their backs and call them a martar? 

as for 600 diffrent versions of the Bible - the devil works very carfully to confuse the world - stick with kjv and you will be doing good 

are you a christian?

i am not taking this too personally however you did attack me by name calling, that was your doing i was just taking a small tiny swing back at you... you seem thin skined? how old are you?

----------


## smokethedays

> read a little more or have some one read it to you slowly... i really am not comfrotable w any body getting killed, for any reason, 
> 
> *so why do extremists exploite children? why do they strap bombs to their backs and call them a martar?* 
> 
> as for 600 diffrent versions of the Bible - the devil works very carfully to confuse the world - stick with kjv and you will be doing good 
> 
> are you a christian?
> 
> i am not taking this too personally however you did attack me by name calling, that was your doing i was just taking a small tiny swing back at you... you seem thin skined? how old are you?


 :LOL:  you are funny bro. seriously.

before you ask why these extresmits are strpping bombs on themselves and blowing up themselves, you ought to ask your self, WTF could happen to some one to make him/her do that?!!!
Doesn't that sound like logical sequence of EDUCATED thinking?!!

The martyr thing is as good as a crusader in early christianity, dying for your "diety" has been going for 1000's of years, Egyptians, Vikings, Celts, Mayans, and aztecs always did those sacrifices thing for their gods.
I do agree it is not the smartest thing to do but all religions have a version of it, Jesus Christ himself supposed to a sacrifice for humans sins.

Im not fighting or trying to "swing" at you, i am enraged with anger, because I know people who live there, and you see them dying on TV brutally and no one is doing anything.

and this isn't an argument about whose land it is, its too late to argue that. There is an established country with a population already (Israel). This argument is to show the brutallity of Israel in this particular incident which cannot be denied by anyone excpet another criminal.

Hamas is bad, I get it and agree. What did those innocent people do for their homes to be demolished upon them? what did these kids do to be prohibited of education, medical services, food, regular life that you and me and every one on this earth deserve?!

Israel is puishing the entire Palestinian race for the wrong doing of few, that is not justice. Its like this: you get in a fight and end up shooting a guy, the police comes pickes up take you to jail along with ALL of your family memebers and prosecute all of you. Is that fair?

----------


## amcon

i dont disagree with what you are saying... except that you point all the blam on one person, the jew or israel

how bout this you nighbor is throwing garbage in you yard daily, every day, for years... you beg them to stop. finally you get mad and find a garbage truck to dump a whole mess load of crap, over nightm in to thier yard... that would be a better explination of what seems to be happening

*only thing is these annalogies are not taking in to consideration the people innocent or not*... my only point is i belive this is just more of the same old thing lets say the jew do take over the gazza strip... what will the palstines do then? will they say o well i guess we lost? or will they respond with more blood shed? i dont know who is right or wrong???? 

what i do know if israel is not doing this to them they are doing it to israel

and i do think that all this has ALL of it playings or more like a woven thread of end times.

and you were calling me names... i forgive you for that

----------


## gst528i

> That's not what I meant bro. What I meant is that particular statment about 72 vergins in NOT in the Quran, just like other stuff in Christianity that people follow but not in the Bible.
> 
> Therefore, I don't believe in it as a Muslim. some choose to.


Oh okay i thought you meant to say its in the quaran. So since obviously you are muslim or know about it more where is it from. Where did they get this idea or belief. 
And if its not in the quaran why do muslims believe it. i thought just like the bible quaran is word of god or something in that manner.

----------


## Older lifter

> This is a misinformed post... No disrespect to you Old Lifter but these people are fighting for their land and freedom of *ZIONIST* *Jewish Occupation*. You should watch the documentary posted on this thread.


No disrespect to you either, but i have spent most of my life working in countries where religion or money has been the course of so so much problems (not from reading book, but from being there), i am sick of muslium this, christian that or jew there..... 

End of the day people, people, people are doing all the problems and using one reason or another to make it right for there side... One peaceful world is a dream, generally people will do what is best for them. I don't respect any religion or culture, every one of them that i have seen is hipocritical, even where i live. 

I believe in 'i treat you like you treat me' you want to fight i'll fight, you want to live side by side i will live side by side, respect on all levels. Should be the same with countries too, you treat our people like sh*t we will treat yours the same way,,, maybe this way things will finally start getting on a level playing field, respect people not some bl**dy religion or greed..

Oh just to add, all land, all of it was taken by us, we were not here first, who the hell says that that land is his, this land is there, all land has been taken, and yes usually taken by the strong,,,,,,,ummm sound like evolution.....

----------


## smokethedays

> Oh okay i thought you meant to say its in the quaran. So since obviously you are muslim or know about it more where is it from. Where did they get this idea or belief. 
> And if its not in the quaran why do muslims believe it. i thought just like the bible quaran is word of god or something in that manner.


Where it came from I don't know.
Muslims believe it?! who told you that? CNN, Fox, or NBC?

Muslims don't believe that, extremists do. and extremists are NOT muslims.
Who am I to say so, a netural Muslim among over a billion neutral ones.

----------


## smokethedays

> i dont disagree with what you are saying... except that you point all the blam on one person, the jew or israel
> 
> how bout this you nighbor is throwing garbage in you yard daily, every day, for years... you beg them to stop. finally you get mad and find a garbage truck to dump a whole mess load of crap, over nightm in to thier yard... that would be a better explination of what seems to be happening
> 
> *only thing is these annalogies are not taking in to consideration the people innocent or not*... my only point is i belive this is just more of the same old thing lets say the jew do take over the gazza strip... what will the palstines do then? will they say o well i guess we lost? or will they respond with more blood shed? i dont know who is right or wrong???? 
> 
> what i do know if israel is not doing this to them they are doing it to israel
> 
> and i do think that all this has ALL of it playings or more like a woven thread of end times.
> ...


 :Hmmmm:  I really don't know anymore how to make you SEE that Israel invaded that land, and yet you keep giving me examples of "what if" type.

Dude, you are way off. Your example would be valid if it is 2 neighbooring countires, i.e. the USA and Canada.

We are freakin' takin' about ILLEGAL occupation, by international law, moral law, and any fvckin' law out there. Do you understand that the whole world agreed on resolution 242 by the UN which commands Israel to retreat before 1967 war and they haven't complied!!! Matter of fact they took more land since then.

Forgive me for what by the way?!! Yes you are ignorant in this matter and you keep arguing. I didn't cuss you out, its just the reality.

----------


## gst528i

> No disrespect to you either, but i have spent most of my life working in countries where religion or money has been the course of so so much problems (not from reading book, but from being there), i am sick of muslium this, christian that or jew there..... 
> 
> End of the day people, people, people are doing all the problems and using one reason or another to make it right for there side... One peaceful world is a dream, generally people will do what is best for them. I don't respect any religion or culture, every one of them that i have seen is hipocritical, even where i live. 
> 
> I* believe in 'i treat you like you treat me' you want to fight i'll fight, you want to live side by side i will live side by side, respect on all levels. Should be the same with countries too, you treat our people like sh*t we will treat yours the same way,,, maybe this way things will finally start getting on a level playing field, respect people not some bl**dy religion or greed..*
> 
> Oh just to add, all land, all of it was taken by us, we were not here first, who the hell says that that land is his, this land is there, all land has been taken, and yes usually taken by the strong,,,,,,,ummm sound like evolution.....


Thats really nice if everyone believed this instead of religion. I wish someone would already make a time machine and kill all and every religion. Any time a man claiming to know the word of god should be erased. Would be nice to imagine everyone united

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## jimmyinkedup

religon in and of itself is not bad...all religions teach basic spiritual principles....its the beliefs by certain sects of certain religions that their religion is the only true religion (thats not unusual almost all religions state that) and it should be pushed upon everyone ...even if by force if necessary. In other words religious principles in and of themselves are good and can lead to a spiritual and fulfilling way of life.....its the misapplication of certain portions by people that makes it bad. Religion has brought the opportunity of spirtuality to the masses ....

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## the.muscled.lawyer

the jews are the best in finance

the jews are the best in economics

the jews are the best in law practice and especially business law

the jews are influential

the jews are the best in mutual aid

the jews are the best in erudition


the jews are the best in war and especially when it's about to kill thousands people


the jews are the worst criminal ever seen in the world


They are a cursed population and nothing can justify the mass murder of children and womens.


claim that they re just defending themselves is a load of craps


for one rocket launched, they re slaughtering hundred people

is there a justice ? for my part, i dont think so.

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## gst528i

> the jews are the best in finance
> 
> the jews are the best in economics
> 
> the jews are the best in law practice and especially business law
> 
> the jews are influential
> 
> the jews are the best in mutual aid
> ...


Wasnt just one rocket, multiple over a period weeks and months but i see your stand point. It like fighting a flu with chemo therapy huh ...

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## BuffedGuy

My dearest beloved brother *SmokeTheDays*:

May you be rewarded for your effort. I just wanted to make one minor correction. Please do not take offense to it, brother.

It is incorrect to say that only extremists believe in the 72 virgins thing. Rather, it is the belief of the orthodox Muslims that a man who dies in _Jihad_ will be rewarded immensely, and of those rewards will be 72 virgins. As for it not being mentioned in the Quran, then this is incorrect; although the number 72 was specified by God's Messenger, nonetheless the Quran itself _does_ mention the _hoor al-ayn_ (i.e. virgins). (As a side-note, many Non-Muslims wonder why the number 72...the reason is that 72 in Arabic meant infinity, or literally 'a great number'. So it does not mean 72 exactly; rather, it means a great number.)

This is ONE of the rewards for those who wage a TRUE _Jihad_, which is enjoined on Muslims to defend one's people when they are invaded and occupied by outsiders. Any self-respecting people would defend their family and homeland from invasion by foreigners. So this is what is meant by TRUE Jihad.

As for what the terrorist extremists like Al-Qaeda do, this is NOT Jihad. Rather, it is extremism and terrorism. They will NOT get 72 virgins, but rather they will get the torment of Hell-fire, as Allah's Messenger [s] said that they would be the dogs of hell-fire. In Jihad, it is COMPLETELY FORBIDDEN to target non-combatants, especially women, children, the old, the clergy, etc. So these people who claim to be waging Jihad have NOTHING to do with Jihad.

As for the complaint of some that 72 virgins is too sensual, then this is absurd. Who would want to go to Heaven if there are no women there? And the man who risks his life to defend his people--and who leaves behind a beautiful wife--has the MOST right to having beautiful women as a reward.

Of course, the greatest reward in Paradise will be to be with God, as is stated in the Quran.

----------


## BuffedGuy

> the jews are the best in finance
> 
> the jews are the best in economics
> 
> the jews are the best in law practice and especially business law
> 
> the jews are influential
> 
> the jews are the best in mutual aid
> ...


It is perhaps better that we make a distinction between Jews and Zionists. Like I said earlier, there are many Jews who are opposed to Zionism. As the Quran says:
*
"Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand for the right: They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous."*(The Noble Quran, 3:113-114)

(The Jews were and still are called the People of the Book.)

----------


## Matt

I have to say i have really enjoyed this thread, the debate has been informative. Most people here seem well educated on this subject, far more so than me, but ive learnt alot.
Its a shame there arnt more people like you guys. Im a member of a number of other boards where the views are to say the least, the opposite to those shared here, and im fighting the battle on my own, but fu.k them...

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## Flagg

It seems to me that Hamas could give a shit about the people dying and are more concerned with their wounded pride. 

This is a tragedy, which I can only see resolved when one side has utterly decimated the other...and we all know Hamas doesn't have the capabilities to do that to Israel.

----------


## BuffedGuy

> This is a tragedy, which I can only see resolved when one side has utterly decimated the other


Kind of like the early American pioneers decimated the Native Americans? Might is right?




> ...and we all know Hamas doesn't have the capabilities to do that to Israel.


"How oft, by God's will, hath a small force vanquished a mighty one?" (Quran, 2:249)

EDIT: I don't believe in Hamas's war policy (which I believe is against the doctrines of our faith); I simply mean that the Palestinian people--and the Muslims in general--_will_ liberate Palestine.

----------


## Flagg

> Kind of like the early American pioneers decimated the Native Americans? Might is right?
> 
> 
> "How oft, by God's will, hath a small force vanquished a mighty one?" (Quran, 2:249)
> 
> EDIT: I don't believe in Hamas's war policy (which I believe is against the doctrines of our faith); I simply mean that the Palestinian people--and the Muslims in general--_will_ liberate Palestine.



Point number 1: I never said might was right, but it's always how the world has worked. 

Point number 2: Well Hamas can keep telling themselves that. When they finally realise it's the 21st Century, then maybe they'll see what they are doing is utterly futile. Trust me, I think it's blatantly wrong what Israel is doing to Gaza, but Hamas care nothing for the rights of your average Palastinian. They're still living in the dark ages. Both sides are as bad as the other. 

Point number 3: I would love to see Gaza left alone by Israel. What do you mean by "liberate", do you not wish to live in peace side by side with the Jews?

----------


## BuffedGuy

Peace be unto you, *Flagg*.




> Point number 1: I never said might was right, but it's always how the world has worked.


I guess we will have to disagree on this. I believe in God, and I believe that even if all the people in the world gathered together in unison, they could not overcome His Decree. I believe that many mighty nations were defeated by God, who were more powerful in the land than Israel. But alas, this is a matter of faith, and so let us agree to disagree, God Willing. No offense.




> Point number 2: Well Hamas can keep telling themselves that. When they finally realise it's the 21st Century, then maybe they'll see what they are doing is utterly futile.


I also agree that what Hamas is doing is futile, and we--the orthodox Muslims--warn them severely about this. 




> Trust me, I think it's blatantly wrong what Israel is doing to Gaza, but Hamas care nothing for the rights of your average Palastinian. They're still living in the dark ages. Both sides are as bad as the other.


I disagree with Hamas's methodology, but this does not mean that I do not feel for the Palestinian people in generality. I do NOT at all think there is a moral equivalence between the Palestinians and the Zionist state of Israel. There is an oppressor and there is an oppressed. When the American pioneers vanquished the Native Americans, the oppressors were the Americans and the oppressed were the Native Americans. Just because some of the Native Americans--a good deal of the young ones--resorted to terror tactics did not at all negate the fact that the Native Americans were the oppressed party. The invader is responsible for whatever happens as a result of his invasion. If some of the occupied peoples resort to terror tactics (as inevitably happens in any invasion), then the blame is on the invader, and the occupied people cannot be blamed for that. If I rob a bank and in the commission of the crime one of the police officers accidentally shoots a bystander, then *I* am to blame since had I not chosen to rob the bank, none of this would have happened.




> Point number 3: I would love to see Gaza left alone by Israel. What do you mean by "liberate", do you not wish to live in peace side by side with the Jews?


We were living in peace side-by-side for hundreds of years. The Jews used to flee persecution in Europe to live in safety in Muslim lands. The Jews had their golden age in the Muslim ruled Andalusia. As _Rabbi_ Dovid Weiss of _Neturei Karta_ (Jews against Zionism) said:"We as Jews, as practicing Jews, have been living side by side in all the Muslim countries amongst the Arab peoples. We have no problem. The problem is purely political since the creation of this movement, Zionism, which became ultimately the State of Israel."

( http://english.ohmynews.com/articlev...07736&rel_no=1 )So we wish to return to that state of affairs, before Israel was created and before the colonial British forces occupied our lands. We wish to regain our sovereignty and the right to rule our own land. The Jews will be respected and considered a protected people under our rule, just as was the case before the British and Zionist occupation of our lands.

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.

----------


## Flagg

> Peace be unto you, *Flagg*.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess we will have to disagree on this. I believe in God, and I believe that even if all the people in the world gathered together in unison, they could not overcome His Decree. I believe that many mighty nations were defeated by God, who were more powerful in the land than Israel. But alas, this is a matter of faith, and so let us agree to disagree, God Willing. No offense.
> 
> 
> 
> I also agree that what Hamas is doing is futile, and we--the orthodox Muslims--warn them severely about this. 
> ...



Peace unto you also, BuffedGuy.

I do not agree at all with 7 days of Israeli retaliation, but why cant the Jews have their own home where they are not living under the rule of someone else? I can accept that in Andalusia they lived in peace, but is it really their home? It's no different to impossing a New World Order on the entire planet. Israel is the only Jewish state on the planet, I mean where else are they meant to go? Is it not enough that they are allowed to live there, side by side with the surrounding Arab states? Why is land so damn important? It's no different than Israel trying to take Gaza by force, as it is for the decades of war that has been waged on Israel by surrounding Arab states claiming it has no right to exist. However, I am hopeful that a peaceful agreement can be made. Look at Northern Ireland, though not perfect, a Hell of a lot better than its been in the last 30 + years.

----------


## BuffedGuy

Thank you for your courteous reply, *Flagg*.




> why cant the Jews have their own home where they are not living under the rule of someone else?


We Muslims have no problem with the Jews having their own homeland. If the Germans feel bad about the Holocaust, then they can give a sliver of their land to create a Jewish homeland there. If the Americans feel bad about the Jews being persecuted, then they can give one of their fifty states to the Jews. If the Europeans feel bad about persecuting Jews for so many hundreds of years, then they can give part of their European Union land to the Jews. The Muslims did not carry out pogroms against Jews ever, and certainly not the Palestinians. So why should we give our land to them?

Let's say that the Tutsis kept persecuting and massacring the Hutus, can you imagine what America's reaction would be if the Hutus said "just give us a sliver of your land--say the coast of California? I mean, you guys have soooo much land, from sea to shining sea." No country would ever agree to such a thing.

However, the fact is that the Zionists were offered uninhabited part of Uganda as a homeland. That was going to be the original destination of the Zionist state. But the Zionists--in their religious zeal--refused Uganda and demanded Muslim territory, because they considered their land given to them by God. (If I say that God gave me all of America, I doubt the Americans would say: "OK sure here you go, sir!") 

So what we say is: this argument that the Jews had no place else is false. They were offered Uganda; they refused and instead began their colonial takeover of Palestine.

Furthermore, not every people have a right to their own country. If you are a very small minority, you might not get your own land, since land is limited on earth. There are many small religions that exist and do not have a single country to their own, such as the Bahais, Wicca, Zoroastrians, Rastafarianism, etc. Do they all get their own lands? No. Who rules a country depends on who the majority of the people are in that land. Jews make up 0.22% of the world's population ( http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html ), so it is no wonder that they didn't have a homeland for so long. 

Yes, they (the Jews)--like all other people--have a right to live in peace and security wherever, such as how they live in America. But do they automatically get another country for themselves? I don't think so. Nonetheless, I had no issue with them taking a part of Uganda, so long as no other people lived there. 




> Why is land so damn important?


To Muslims, Jews, and Christians, the land of Palestine is considered the Holy Land. So it has a special significance. To Muslims, Jerusalem is one of the three holy cities of Islam. Furthermore, it is a huge base for America in Muslim land. Can you imagine if during the Cold War, Russia demanded that Idaho should be given to the Cuban Fidel Castro? I mean, after all, it's just a small state! But the Americans would never even agree to give a small village to the Cubans, since that would become a base inside the heartland of America for the Russians. Likewise, Israel is a base in the heart of the Middle East for America. 

We Muslims are sick of the British, French, Russians, Americans, and other Europeans interfering in our lands. Just stay in your own land and everything will be fine. As presidential candidate Dr. Ron Paul said: 9/11 would NEVER have happened had America not been involved in neo-colonialism in Muslim lands. (Not that 9/11 was justified; it wasn't. But it happened as a direct result of American imperialism.)

Back to the point: Israel is more than just a sliver of land: it is a base for the Americans against the Muslims. It has nukes. Can you imagine if the Russians set up Fidel Castro in Idaho and placed nukes in Idaho? Americans would be trembling in their boots, and DEMAND that Idaho be taken back.




> It's no different than Israel trying to take Gaza by force,


It is very different. Gaza has always been Palestinian, whereas Israel is stolen land, a land which they stole just a little over 50 years ago. Before that, all the land was Palestinian.




> as it is for the decades of war that has been waged on Israel by surrounding Arab states claiming it has no right to exist.


This is a myth propagated by Israel. Israel has the fourth strongest military in the world. Israel has been harassing and devestating ALL of its neighbors since its creation. The Arab neighbors have a reason to be worried, because the Zionists believe that Eretz Israel (i.e. Biblical Israel) includes a HUGE chunk of all its neighboring Arab countries, all the way deep into Arabia, including the holy city of Madeenah, the capitol of Islam.

Look at this map to see what the Greater Israel means:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...srael-map1.gif

This is what the Zionists intend, and it is only a matter of time before they get it.




> However, I am hopeful that a peaceful agreement can be made.


I am not hopeful at all, but if a fair and just peace agreement can be given to the Palestinians, then we (the Muslims) will accept it, because we are a peace-loving people. However, I am not hopeful that the Zionists will ever do that; rather, their peace agreements are designed only to allow their military juggernaut to recharge. It is a part of their divide-and-conquer philosophy. Just like the American pioneers destroyed the Native Americans through false "peace treaties", likewise the Zionists have been doing that. 

As the great anti-Zionist Jewish thinker Noam Chomsky said, the Palestinians have lost MORE through the peace agreements with Israel than through war. If we learn ANY lesson from the Native Americans, it is that we should not agree to ANY of these false peace treaties, but instead wage continual resistance and freedom-fighting, altogether united as one. The Zionists cannot be trusted, just like the American pioneers could not be treated. Peace treaties are only as worthy as the word of those who sign it, and the Zionists are treacherous colonialists.

Again, if the Israelis offered a fair peace treaty, we'd jump at it. But included in this peace treaty MUST BE The Right of Return, as guaranteed by international law. So long as they refuse this, the Israelis are war criminals.

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin

----------


## BuffedGuy

By the way, I don't want my last post to be construed as a rant against Americans. I have nothing against Americans. A lot of them are great people. And the country of America has a lot of greatness and things I admire. However, the foreign policy is oppressive and must be changed. And I believe that this would be in line with the ideology of the Founding Fathers, who wanted America to be a peace-loving and neutral country, not a warlike colonial state, which was what the Founding Fathers were fleeing!

----------


## MuscleScience

> By the way, I don't want my last post to be construed as a rant against Americans. I have nothing against Americans. A lot of them are great people. And the country of America has a lot of greatness and things I admire. However, the foreign policy is oppressive and must be changed. *And I believe that this would be in line with the ideology of the Founding Fathers, who wanted America to be a peace-loving and neutral country, not a warlike colonial state, which was what the Founding Fathers were fleeing*!


I think thats what most of us Americans want to, but we have a faction of people that believe that our Constitution is out of date and should be molded to fit popular whims, instead of being the guiding light of our policy and morality. 

BTW, I was done with this thread because of all the blatant jew hating (im not jewish mind you) now I am interested in it again because of yours and others recent intelligent post. I wish that there was a jewish perspective on this issue because I believe some of the arguments are one sided. (not pointing out anyone specific)

----------


## BuffedGuy

Peace be unto you, *MuscleScience*.

Thank you very much for your kind words.




> I think thats what most of us Americans want to, but we have a faction of people that believe that our Constitution is out of date and should be molded to fit popular whims, instead of being the guiding light of our policy and morality.


I agree. 

In fact, this is true even of _Jewish_ Americans, who actually tend to be liberal progressives. They did a poll recently and found that the vast majority of them wanted peace AND supported the idea of a Palestinian state side-by-side with Israel, something that the Zionists have been preventing for decades. I also think that if they were explained the issue of the Right of Return, I believe that many of them would support it and even demand it. 

I read an article written by a liberal Jew who basically said that the Zionists are very powerful in Washington (due to AIPAC) but that they don't faithfully represent the sentiments of Jews in general. (Having said that, there are no doubt many Zionist Jews in America.)

My point is that it is not fair to "Jew bash". However, I *do* "Zionist bash", because to me, Zionism is like Nazism and thus fair game. And the United Nations agreed that Zionism is racism when it passed the General Assembly Resolution 3379, which was in effect for almost twenty years, until pressure from the USA (bowing to AIPAC's immense pressure) caused it to be scrapped. 




> BTW, I was done with this thread because of all the blatant jew hating (im not jewish mind you)


I agree with you that we should not Jew bash and I urge everyone to stay away from that. God says in the Quran:

*"Let not the hatred of a people towards you move you to commit injustice."*  (Quran, 5:8)

We must stop the cycle of hatred. The Nazis were racist towards Jews, then the Zionist Jews were in turn racist to the Arabs, and then now some of my fellow Arab brethren have turned into racists against Jews...we must break this cycle.

As the Quran says:

*"Every soul will reap the fruits of its own deeds; no soul shall bear another's burden."* (Quran, 6:164)

So if one Jew does something wrong, then we oppose that one Jew, not all of the Jews in the world. If one Arab does something wrong, then we oppose that Arab, not all the Arabs in the world. 

I know this is a concept that Americans cherish, and generally they are good about avoiding racism.




> now I am interested in it again because of yours and others recent intelligent post.


Thank you very much.




> I wish that there was a jewish perspective on this issue because I believe some of the arguments are one sided. (not pointing out anyone specific)


If you'd like to be an *expert* on the topic, then I suggest reading "The Fateful Triangle", written by the Jewish Noam Chomsky, who is a genius professor at MIT. 

Although I understand the need of healthy debate, I believe that Zionists have no _truthful_ arguments to defend their tenuous position, just as Nazis wouldn't.

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.

----------


## smokethedays

> My dearest beloved brother *SmokeTheDays*:
> 
> May you be rewarded for your effort. I just wanted to make one minor correction. Please do not take offense to it, brother.
> 
> It is incorrect to say that only extremists believe in the 72 virgins thing. Rather, it is the belief of the orthodox Muslims that a man who dies in _Jihad_ will be rewarded immensely, and of those rewards will be 72 virgins. As for it not being mentioned in the Quran, then this is incorrect; although the number 72 was specified by God's Messenger, nonetheless the Quran itself _does_ mention the _hoor al-ayn_ (i.e. virgins). (As a side-note, many Non-Muslims wonder why the number 72...the reason is that 72 in Arabic meant infinity, or literally 'a great number'. So it does not mean 72 exactly; rather, it means a great number.)
> 
> This is ONE of the rewards for those who wage a TRUE _Jihad_, which is enjoined on Muslims to defend one's people when they are invaded and occupied by outsiders. Any self-respecting people would defend their family and homeland from invasion by foreigners. So this is what is meant by TRUE Jihad.
> 
> As for what the terrorist extremists like Al-Qaeda do, this is NOT Jihad. Rather, it is extremism and terrorism. They will NOT get 72 virgins, but rather they will get the torment of Hell-fire, as Allah's Messenger [s] said that they would be the dogs of hell-fire. In Jihad, it is COMPLETELY FORBIDDEN to target non-combatants, especially women, children, the old, the clergy, etc. So these people who claim to be waging Jihad have NOTHING to do with Jihad.
> ...


I will not take any offense as long as the critisizm is constructive. 
However, there has been a grest debate over the word Hoor -Alain meaning, and that where we have a clash between orthodox Muslims like you wanna call them, and netural every day Muslim. Its been debated that it meant, beautiful women with large eyes (sayin' the big eyes are a characteristic of beauty). 

However my friend, the problem is not in what is waiting us, only god knows that. The problem is that Palestinians are gettin' f-ed day and night while the US, the UK, spain, and Nazi Germany sayin' its a self defense.

Maybe one of those countries should give Israel some of their vast lands.
why don't the Israelies move to Beverly Hills, they already own it some what.

 :LOL:

----------


## BuffedGuy

> Its been debated that it meant, beautiful women with large eyes (sayin' the big eyes are a characteristic of beauty).


Yes, my dear brother, that *is* what it refers to.




> we have a clash between orthodox Muslims like you wanna call them, and netural every day Muslim.


I did not capitalize the word "orthodox" because I did not mean to imply a sect. Rather, I meant the mainstream every day Muslims. I agree that there might be a debate between the Islamic _Ulema_ and some laypersons. 

Fi Aman Allah [swt],
-Saladin.

----------


## MuscleScience

> I will not take any offense as long as the critisizm is constructive. 
> However, there has been a grest debate over the word Hoor -Alain meaning, and that where we have a clash between orthodox Muslims like you wanna call them, and netural every day Muslim. Its been debated that it meant, beautiful women with large eyes (sayin' the big eyes are a characteristic of beauty). 
> 
> However my friend, the problem is not in what is waiting us, only god knows that. The problem is that Palestinians are gettin' f-ed day and night while the US, the UK, spain, and *Nazi Germany* sayin' its a self defense.
> 
> Maybe one of those countries should give Israel some of their vast lands.
> why don't the Israelies move to Beverly Hills, they already own it some what.


Nazi Germany has not existed since 1945, So your comment is either very ignorant or very disrespectful. I am hoping it was an ignorant comment and you meant no disrespect.

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## BuffedGuy

> Nazi Germany has not existed since 1945, So your comment is either very ignorant or very disrespectful. I am hoping it was an ignorant comment and you meant no disrespect.


I also found the comment to be...off. Maybe I am misunderstanding it though.

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## smokethedays

> Nazi Germany has not existed since 1945, So your comment is either very ignorant or very disrespectful. I am hoping it was an ignorant comment and you meant no disrespect.





> I also found the comment to be...off. Maybe I am misunderstanding it though.


Yes, both of you misunderstood my intention, sorry for using such word be couldn't find a better word. 

The reason I said so, is because Germany is supporting Israel in what she is doing of massacres against Palestinians. Israel is re-doing the holocaust on Paletiniians and Germany is supportive of that, thats what I meant.

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## smokethedays

> Nazi Germany has not existed since 1945, So your comment is either *very ignorant* or very disrespectful. I am hoping it was an ignorant comment and you meant no disrespect.


That I don't think so bro, the only ignorance I see on here is when you and others like yourself support bunch of criminal Zionists butchering innocent civilians just because of some fvckin' bibilcal horse shit says the Jews are the people of god and the promise land...etc of this made up shit by the Jews themselves who translated the bible.

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## smokethedays

> I think thats what most of us Americans want to, but we have a faction of people that believe that our Constitution is out of date and should be molded to fit popular whims, instead of being the guiding light of our policy and morality. 
> 
> BTW, *I was done with this thread because of all the blatant jew hating* (im not jewish mind you) now I am interested in it again because of yours and others recent intelligent post. I wish that there was a jewish perspective on this issue because I believe some of the arguments are one sided. (not pointing out anyone specific)


Why do you think this thread is Jew hating?!!

Its condmening Israel for its doings, thats all. I don't see any hate, no one said the Jews must be killed, butchered, or exiled. 
You are just making excuses because of the overwhelming evidences that Israel is nothing more than war criminal and illegal state.

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## gst528i

> Why do you think this thread is Jew hating?!!
> 
> Its condmening Israel for its doings, thats all. I don't see any hate, no one said the Jews must be killed, butchered, or exiled. 
> You are just making excuses because of the overwhelming evidences that Israel is nothing more than war criminal and illegal state.


You know i have always heard ( the quotations in this thread and my GF) that the quaran has some very insightful writing in it. What i always fail to understand is if this book is full of peace and knowledge and insight where do the poeple get their anger from. How to the extremist use this book to teach false jihad (if you may). How can it teach to be intolerant of other religions. I know there is some things in there that tell anyone who is not a muslim doesnt go to heaven and it is a duty for muslims to convert people but i dont think its suppose to force people.

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## smokethedays

> You know i have always heard ( the quotations in this thread and my GF) that the quaran has some very insightful writing in it. What i always fail to understand is if this book is full of peace and knowledge and insight where do the poeple get their anger from. How to the extremist use this book to teach false jihad (if you may). How can it teach to be intolerant of other religions. *I know there is some things in there that tell anyone who is not a muslim doesnt go to heaven* and it is a duty for muslims to convert people but i dont think its suppose to force people.


Extrimists exist in all religions and they always interpert the vague messages the wrong way, just like crusaders and zionists. I don't believe or think that there is any religion encourages killing.

About the part in bold, Im not sure what is the correct explanation of that, I forgot. But Buffed Guy can answer that for sure in his thread.

The duty thing, it is not a duty to convert other, it is a duty to inform thme about Islam and it is their RIGHT to choose after they had been informed.

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## MuscleScience

> Yes, both of you misunderstood my intention, sorry for using such word be couldn't find a better word. 
> 
> *Calling a German or someone of Proud German Descent a Nazi is probably the biggest insult that you can levy against us. Yes we struggle with the past, we try to remember what happened and the lessons of how a Tyrant can come to power and effectively trick an entire population. Those 12 years (1933-1945) are the worst times of the German People and in no way does it reflect Germans of today or of the past, remember Hitler was actively fought to the very end by his own people and later his own Generals. I am sure you do not need a history lesson on this subject as it is well documented. 
> *
> 
> The reason I said so, is because Germany is supporting Israel in what she is doing of massacres against Palestinians. Israel is re-doing the holocaust on Paletiniians and Germany is supportive of that, thats what I meant.


They also support an independent Palestine. 




> That I don't think so bro, the only ignorance I see on here is when you and others like yourself support bunch of criminal Zionists butchering innocent civilians just because of some fvckin' bibilcal horse shit says the Jews are the people of god and the promise land...etc of this made up shit by the Jews themselves who translated the bible.


Yes, name calling is ignorant!!!

I do not believe I ever said I supported what Israel was doing all I did was question you calling them a war criminal. I was just pointing out that both sides are to blame for the current situation. 

You think I am against you because I question you. You then revert to defensive measures, jump to conclusions and put words in my mouth. That is human nature and I do not fault you for that. 

My Grandfather use to have a saying of some people, "Hochmut kommt vor dem Fall,"

Which basically means in english that everyone is arrogant until the are proven wrong. (Fall) He told me to keep that in mind when I disagreed with people. He would say both sides believe they are right until one is proven wrong. 

I am simply pointing out that there are two sides to every story, being unipolar to one side ignores the problem and does not lead to any meaningful solution. 




> Why do you think this thread is Jew hating?!!
> 
> Its condmening Israel for its doings, thats all. I don't see any hate, no one said the Jews must be killed, butchered, or exiled. 
> You are just making excuses because of the overwhelming evidences that Israel is nothing more than war criminal and illegal state.


I think when someone makes insulting comments towards another people that is in-fact hateful. As I made it a point of pointing it out. I was not referring to anyone specific.

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## smokethedays

> They also support an independent Palestine. 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, name calling is ignorant!!!
> 
> I do not believe I ever said I supported what Israel was doing all I did was question you calling them a war criminal. I was just pointing out that both sides are to blame for the current situation. 
> 
> You think I am against you because I question you. You then revert to defensive measures, jump to conclusions and put words in my mouth. That is human nature and I do not fault you for that. 
> ...


I already apologized about the word, if you don't accept that, then thats your problem.
sorry bro, but you are a LIER, because I didn't say a single hateful/Insulting word that I didn't already apologize for because it was a mistake. Point it out if you could, I dare you.

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## MuscleScience

> I already apologized about the word, if you don't accept that, then thats your problem.
> sorry bro, but you are a LIER, because I didn't say a single hateful/Insulting word that I didn't already apologize for because it was a mistake. Point it out if you could, I dare you.


I wasnt talking about you, dont get so defensive. You asked how this thread was jew hating and I was pointing out how some on here had made some blatant jew hating comments. Again I am not point anyone out. I guess I could have been more clear on that, thats my fault. 

I accept your apology about the other thing, I commend you and thank you for your apology.

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## xlxBigSexyxlx

lol, you guys make me laugh  :LOL:

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## smokethedays

> I wasnt talking about you, dont get so defensive. You asked how this thread was jew hating and I was pointing out how some on here had made some blatant jew hating comments. Again I am not point anyone out. I guess I could have been more clear on that, thats my fault. 
> 
> I accept your apology about the other thing, I commend you and a thank for your apology.


Thanks bro. Peace
Sorry for any offense.

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## BuffedGuy

*"Invite to the Way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and debate with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for your Lord (alone) knows best..."* (Quran, 16:125)

"True victory is changing the hearts of your opponents by gentleness and kindness. " --Saladin (not me, the real one)

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## BuffedGuy

> That I don't think so bro, the only ignorance I see on here is when you and others like yourself support bunch of criminal Zionists butchering innocent civilians just because of some fvckin' bibilcal horse shit says the Jews are the people of god and the promise land...etc of this made up shit by the Jews themselves who translated the bible.


Dear beloved brother, *MuscleScience* is not a Zionist. His comments have been fair and balanced. Let's give the people room to breath, God Willing. We cannot expect them to hold all our views. In fact, I encourage him to read the view of the Zionists, because I strongly believe that ONLY through hearing their views can he see the strength in our position and the weakness in theirs (the Zionists).

Forgive me for admonishing you, but let us both encourage us to good action.

Fi Aman Allah

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## gst528i

Why do you think america support the so called Zionist view. Do you agree that when extremist attack in America or American intrests wouldnt that only push americans and America to have even more support for the jewish state. Dont they realize this? 
What do they hope to achieve when they plan these little attacks like shooting rockets through the border or blowing up a bus or hotels with Americans Israelis in other countries. 
I am sure they aware of the strength of Israel military. So by doing these little actions, why do they jeaopardize their own people (innocent Muslims in Palestine regions). 
Obviously by alot of the post made by you and other Muslims, its obvious that you know the history of your people and can predict outcomes. Don't these extremists care about the people especially innocent Muslim children that will die with their tactics. In every religion that i know of, children are considered to be closest to god. Dont they know by continuing tactic they are endangering their own children.

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## MuscleScience

> Dear beloved brother, *MuscleScience* is not a Zionist. His comments have been fair and balanced. Let's give the people room to breath, God Willing. We cannot expect them to hold all our views. In fact, I encourage him to read the view of the Zionists, because I strongly believe that ONLY through hearing their views can he see the strength in our position and the weakness in theirs (the Zionists).
> 
> Forgive me for admonishing you, but let us both encourage us to good action.
> 
> Fi Aman Allah


To be Honest I have read a great deal on Zionism, and I find a lot of it a little hard to swallow. I can not imagine a world wide conspiracy as far reaching and elaborate as some of the so called insiders imply. That being said I do not totally discount the fact that it some form or another the conspiracy is there.

While I am not versed and as passionate about this topic as others, I indeed proclaim to be no expert at it by any means. I would love nothing more than for there to be a Zionist explanation as to why Germany lost WWI and was swindled by the european powers at the Treaty of Versailles. It looks all so perfect in hindsight and as one of the links posted earlier suggest. 

I may just be close minded some on Zionistic issues, when I tell people my heritage sometimes I get the whole so your family were Nazi's question. Even from others that have obviously germanic last names. I have to explain politely that most Germans even in Nazi Germany were not Jew haters. I think thats is were a lot of my possible over sensitivity to jew bashing may come into play. The last thing anyone who identifies themselves as German or of German descent is as an anti-semite at least from my prospective. 

Zwar weiß ich viel, doch möchte ich mehr wissen

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## amcon

"Zwar weiß ich viel, doch möchte ich mehr wissen " 

DID YOU JUST SWEAR AT ME... HU? HU?(kidding) he he he lol - what does that say?

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## MuscleScience

> "Zwar weiß ich viel, doch möchte ich mehr wissen " 
> 
> DID YOU JUST SWEAR AT ME... HU? HU?(kidding) he he he lol - what does that say?


My german is a bit shaky so I may have told everyone to f- off....LOL, hence I havent spoke it in over ten years. 

But from what I remember what its means which is not a literal translation to english: As much as I know, I wish I knew more.

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## Odpierdol_sie!

I say let them kill each other..... im not a fan of either party involved and it'll create some light hearted entertainment for the History channel to broadcast in years to come.

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## NewMuscle83

> I say let them kill each other..... im not a fan of either party involved and it'll create some light hearted entertainment for the History channel to broadcast in years to come.


I hope for terrible things to happen to many of your family members, and you not be able to do a single thing about it but watch.

Then, I hope they make an entertaining Discovery channel show that runs for many years for you to watch over and over again.

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## gst528i

> I say let them kill each other..... im not a fan of either party involved and it'll create some light hearted entertainment for the History channel to broadcast in years to come.


Treat other how you would want to be treated. Obviously you have no regard for human life. Why is any of their lives less important?

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## FallenWyvern

I don't see how anybody should bring up what happened 50 or 60 years ago. If you do that then you can bring up stuff from 100s of years or even 1000s of years ago.

Possession is 90% of ownership, for there is no logic of war.

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## NewMuscle83

That's cause what happened 50 or 60 years ago, is still happening today. It hasn't stopped, and its the main reason behind most of the world problems today.

And saying possession is 90% of ownership is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You're basically saying theft is okay as long as you hold on to the stolen property. Very smart.

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## gst528i

> That's cause what happened 50 or 60 years ago, is still happening today. It hasn't stopped, and its the main reason behind most of the world problems today.
> 
> And saying possession is 90% of ownership is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You're basically saying theft is okay as long as you hold on to the stolen property. Very smart.


"Possession is 9/10ths of the law." It means that if you get caught with the suspect property on your person, you are the prime suspect.

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## AnabolicWizard

Fat guy, I agree with you completely. I finally joined this board just so I can post a comment on this thread...this is after years of being part of this community from the outside. That by itself should show how this issue has so many of our emotions involved.
I believe there is a lot of misinformation here...and most of the misinformation is bring put out by news media in order to hide the crimes committed by the state of Israel in the "Occupied Territories"
1) Gaza is basically a concentration camp formed and ruled by the Zionist State.
It is a place where more then million Palestinians from all over Palestine were forcefully moved to. Then Israel basically closed of all the borders to this concentration camp in order to break the will of the palestinian people. Even basic necessities such as food and medicine were not allowed to enter Gaza. People of Gaza suffered and the fought back against this injustice by lashing out home made rockets towards Israel. This was to show their desperation and will to fight back....it was more symbolic then anything else because even as of few days ago the number of Israelies killed by these rockets was 1! Now the number has moved up to 4....but the launching of the rockets into Israel was the palestinians way of showing their will to struggle against their occupiers and opperasors. 
Here is the basic truth. And Not even the Zionists can disagree with this truth. All the they try to do is to change the subject and hide the facts. The state of Israel has both Arabs and Jews living within its borders. Both have histroical roots in the land...but why is it that the palestinians are not allowed to vote? Why are they not allowed to move freely in the land of their forefathers? Why do they not have a voice within the land which they have lived for thousands of years. Now Israel has two choices...either to allow the palestinians to vote...or to allow them to have a separate state. But unfortunately Israled refused to allow arabs within its territories to vote or have any kind of voice in the goverment...and at the same time it is unwilling to allow them to have their own palestinian state. This is the root of the problem

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## jimmyinkedup

its on now...massive ground invasion by israel .......this is truly criminal this whole situation makes me very sad....and angry at my gov. for its role ...and lack of intervention re: this particular action.....

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## NewMuscle83

> its on now...massive ground invasion by israel .......this is truly criminal this whole situation makes me very sad....and angry at my gov. for its role ...and lack of intervention re: this particular action.....


Unfortunately, our government isn't just not doing anything, the Bush administration actually supports the Israeli offensive. Not only that, but the Bush administration is the biggest financier of this massacare.

The assault unleased on Gaza for the past 8 days has been funded ENTIRELY BY AMERICAN TAX-PAYER MONEY. Yes, you read that correctly. That large amount deducted from your paycheck every month, that same amount that is supposed to go to schools, hospitals, roads, jobs...etc in our local community, is not quite going there, because a large percentage of it is going to Israeli military aid. I guess in our current economy, we don't really need that money.

If you are tired of the recession that you live in, the unemployment, foreclosures, and increased crime we are experiencing in this country lately, and would like your tax money to go to helping the economy instead of murdering children overseas, then write/call/email your elected officials who have influence over the decision making in this country. Tell them you need this money here at home, and you don't want Israel to use it for murder and destruction of Palestinians.


If you want to know how much money Israel really recieves from our tax money, then go to this link http://en. wikipedia. org/wiki/United_States_military_aid_to_Israel 

here's an excerpt

U.S.
Foreign military financing to Israel

Year TOTAL 
2001 $2,813,644,000 
2002 $2,788,000,000 
2003 $3,682,450,000 
2004 $2,624,424,000 
2005 $2,609,570,000 
2006 $2,531,326,000 
2007 $2,460,320,000 

Total 2001-2007 $19,509,734,000 

That's over 19.5 BILLION in about 6 years. I'm sure we can use that money here. And this is just the free military money they recieve, not counting any other aid they recieve for social and other agendas.

That's just ****ing sad.

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## amcon

i heard on the news that they called all the phone numbers they could and sent texts out to all the civilans... imagine getting that text !!! RUN !!! - either way i hope this is not as bloody as it could be... it is too bad it came to this

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## BuffedGuy

> its on now...massive ground invasion by israel .......this is truly criminal this whole situation makes me very sad....and angry at my gov. for its role ...and lack of intervention re: this particular action.....


It's very nice of you to post this. This is enough proof to refute the extremists from our own (Muslim) ranks who can't differentiate between the American government and Americans.

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## BuffedGuy

> I don't see how anybody should bring up what happened 50 or 60 years ago. If you do that then you can bring up stuff from 100s of years or even 1000s of years ago.
> 
> Possession is 90% of ownership, for there is no logic of war.


The people whose houses were bulldozed down, whose land was stolen, etc. are still alive today. Are you saying that after 50 years, you no longer have a right to it?

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## amcon

> It's very nice of you to post this. This is enough proof to refute the extremists from our own (Muslim) ranks who can't differentiate between the American government and Americans.


i can add to this by saying that i am a strong christian, and love the Lord, i have hundreds of muslim friends that are salt of the earth people, though i dont believe at all in their ways with God... we can agree to disagree. and they have more morals and values than the people who critisize them. the love for their wives (the only have one) the love for their children, country, and their work ethic is the reason america exists today... that is 95% of them, 5 % ruin it for the rest ... lol - now if we could convert them all to christianity every thing would be great...

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## BuffedGuy

> i have hundreds of muslim friends


That's a lot of Muslims!

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## amcon

i owned a business that delt directly with many people form the middle east... they make great goat and are very good at soccer...

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## Odpierdol_sie!

> I hope for terrible things to happen to many of your family members, and you not be able to do a single thing about it but watch.
> 
> Then, I hope they make an entertaining Discovery channel show that runs for many years for you to watch over and over again.


What a retarded comment, you worked overtime on that one didnt you... least give me an example of a scenario which you wish for.





> Treat other how you would want to be treated. Obviously you have no regard for human life. Why is any of their lives less important?


Didn't I mention anything about how they should be treated?

My opinion on what I believe should happen has nothing to do with the ongoing cause and will have no baring on the outcome. Basically stating that it is their problem and to let them sort it out them selfs hardly makes me a monster on humanity.

How you come to the conclusion that I have no regard for human life is beyond me?. I have never assisted or supported any man, woman or child in setting sail to far away lands for the sole intention of getting involved in a conflict that has nothing to do with them. Anyone who has and comes out with such a statement as you have here is a hypocrite. 

Further more, I put my life on the line for others on a daily basis. Next time you start spouting crap, get your facts straight and you might not make yourself look a compete twat in the process.

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## FallenWyvern

> The people whose houses were bulldozed down, whose land was stolen, etc. are still alive today. Are you saying that after 50 years, you no longer have a right to it?


Why not go back even further than 50 years and bring up all the war crimes since the beginning of mankind.

If I slap you on your left cheek, do you slap me back?

Some one has to let it go if there is ever gonna be peace.

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## gst528i

Its a vicious circle aint it ?

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## BuffedGuy

Deleted......................

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## TesticularFortitude

The Hamas is purposely and strategically hiding among civilians. the purposely seek he most densely populated civilian zones to draw battle.

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## the.muscled.lawyer

> It is perhaps better that we make a distinction between Jews and Zionists. Like I said earlier, there are many Jews who are opposed to Zionism. As the Quran says:
> *
> "Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand for the right: They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous."*(The Noble Quran, 3:113-114)
> 
> (The Jews were and still are called the People of the Book.)




Don't look the other way please.


Unfortunately, nowadays,this concept gather a politicial view and a religious ideology.

it's true that all sionists are not jews,proof being done by noting that many christian people form a part of the aipac _( they think that by helping israel to conquer palestine, the injustice will be increasing untill that the chaos will be born and rule the world what will bring the messiah)_ 

But In facts, most of sionist people are strong jewish believers.

*(please correct my english if i do mistakes)*

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