# MEMBERS EXPERIENCES > MEMBER'S CYCLE RESULTS >  Amorphic's First Cycle log: NPP/Prop

## Amorphic

Sup boys. I am starting my cycle May 1st consisting of 11weeks of prop and 10-11 weeks of NPP. (75mgs/ed for both)

Stats are as follows:

21 years old
5'10
210 pounds
14% bodyfat.

Pct will be nolva/aromasin /hcg .

Big thanks to everyone thats helped me along the way learning and researching componds. Big, Pewn, Kratos, Juiced, Rana, Hollywood, Merc, dedic8ted1, thetank and whoever else i forgot...you've all be instrumental to this process of education and patience.

I will post pics after i take some new ones. The goal for this cycle is a lean bulk. Looking forward to beefing up my chest as well.

I will update on the 1st and every day that i pin (which will be ed).

Lets start the madness :7up:

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## jAcKeD!!!!

im precribed. 
goodluck Amorphic

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## CheddaNips

yay morph

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## ChuckLee

Following it.
Good Luck

CL

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## dedic8ed1

Subsribed Homey,let's get it!!!!! :Drivingskid:

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## thetank

yeahhhh boiiiiiiii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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## RANA

WOW, I have been waiting for this cycle to be posted. Good luck I will be watching this thread, BIG TIME!!!!

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## Amorphic

alright, first injection starts tomorrow.

i will be doing injections at night before bed since i work till 1045pm all summer. I figure this will also give me a chance to sleep off any pain associated with the prop/npp and the frequent injections. 

any comments on this? good or bad idea?

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## ecto9

Well done. A member waiting to be educated b4 sarting. Right on bro...

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## MATTMAN01

Following the madness. Good luck with the madness.

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## Big

You certainly have done your homework, I'm betting it pays off nicely.

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## gixxerboy1

Nice you should do some before and after pics

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## RANA

I am happy to see my Canadian brother starting this cycle. This has been a long time coming!

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## dupa95

Ataboy Nice reaserch! Glad to see ya pullin the triger on this one. Ya I'll be checkin in daily for updates.

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## Amorphic

> alright, first injection starts tomorrow.
> 
> i will be doing injections at night before bed since i work till 1045pm all summer. I figure this will also give me a chance to sleep off any pain associated with the prop/npp and the frequent injections. 
> 
> any comments on this? good or bad idea?


anyone have an answer to this question?

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## jAcKeD!!!!

not sure what the life of npp is but you could should the night before with the prop.

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## Amorphic

> not sure what the half life of npp is but you could should the night before with the prop.


3 days for npp i believe.

thanks sir.

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## RANA

> anyone have an answer to this question?


Now this is just my opinion, if you inject yourself and go to bed I think you will get more pain. The reason I say that if you inject yourself in the morning it will be somewhat unpleasant but you can rub it (workout the pain) down all day, stretch it out, etc... But if you inject yourself before bed when you wake-up, I assume you might still be knotted up and even more tighter. That is just IMHO.

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## ecto9

JMHO but you're polly looking at days of pain after inject. My plan is to inject right b4 working out. I heard it helps.

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## Amorphic

thanks for the imput boys.

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## Amorphic

alright, today is the big day. i will report back after my injection tonight.

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## Amorphic

*DAY 1*

*alright. did the first injection.

25g 1" to the delt, 75mgs of each. first time in i aspirated and pulled back blood. took the syringe out and put a new one on and hit the delt again. second pinning was away from the vein. injection went smoothly, as of right now i do not feel any noticable discomfort.

a little blood came out of the injection site, about a pinhead amount, i covered the site and massaged it.

there we have it boys. I am now officially crossed over to the dark side*! :7up:

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## jAcKeD!!!!

yay for morph and on succesfull shot and crossing over  :Smilie: 
do you have any pics you can post up?
deff did your homwork and would like to see improvements during the cycle.

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## Amorphic

> yay for morph and on succesfull shot and crossing over 
> do you have any pics you can post up?
> deff did your homwork and would like to see improvements during the cycle.


i will take a new set of pictures today or tomorrow as well as measurements. when the cycle is over i will post up the overall results for everyone to see

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## dupa95

> DAY 1
> 
> alright. did the first injection.
> 
> 25g 1" to the delt, 75mgs of each. first time in i aspirated and pulled back blood. took the syringe out and put a new one on and hit the delt again. second pinning was away from the vein. injection went smoothly, as of right now i do not feel any noticable discomfort.
> 
> a little blood came out of the injection site, about a pinhead amount, i covered the site and massaged it.
> 
> there we have it boys. I am now officially crossed over to the dark side!


Welcome to the dark side you guna luv it!!!!!! :7up:  :Wink/Grin:

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## dedic8ed1

> DAY 1
> 
> alright. did the first injection.
> 
> 25g 1" to the delt, 75mgs of each. first time in i aspirated and pulled back blood. took the syringe out and put a new one on and hit the delt again. second pinning was away from the vein. injection went smoothly, as of right now i do not feel any noticable discomfort.
> 
> a little blood came out of the injection site, about a pinhead amount, i covered the site and massaged it.
> 
> there we have it boys. I am now officially crossed over to the dark side!


Rite on Rite on Rite on,"The force is strong in this one""Dedicate you must"

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## RANA

> DAY 1
> 
> alright. did the first injection.
> 
> 25g 1" to the delt, 75mgs of each. first time in i aspirated and pulled back blood. took the syringe out and put a new one on and hit the delt again. second pinning was away from the vein. injection went smoothly, as of right now i do not feel any noticable discomfort.
> 
> a little blood came out of the injection site, about a pinhead amount, i covered the site and massaged it.
> 
> there we have it boys. I am now officially crossed over to the dark side!


Man I am happy for you!!! F'ing awesome.

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## thetank

> DAY 1
> 
> alright. did the first injection.
> 
> 25g 1" to the delt, 75mgs of each. first time in i aspirated and pulled back blood. took the syringe out and put a new one on and hit the delt again. second pinning was away from the vein. injection went smoothly, as of right now i do not feel any noticable discomfort.
> 
> a little blood came out of the injection site, about a pinhead amount, i covered the site and massaged it.
> 
> there we have it boys. I am now officially crossed over to the dark side!


eeeeyyyyaaaaayyyyeeeeeeeeahhhhhhhhhhh BOIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
im actually pumped enough right now that im gonna do some pushups.

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## Amorphic

well its been about 7 hours since the inject and i have definetly noticed some discomfort/tension in my delt. no swelling or redness. definetly uncomfortable but nothing to complain about.

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## ChuckLee

> well its been about 7 hours since the inject and i have definetly noticed some discomfort/tension in my delt. no swelling or redness. definetly uncomfortable but nothing to complain about.


Virgin muscle. Nothing to worry

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## 200byjune

good luck!!!!!!

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## 200byjune

so what was your official reasoning for 2 injectable compounds?

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## Amorphic

> so what was your official reasoning for 2 injectable compounds?


lean dry gains from both prop and npp. faster results, less water retention. pct starting the day after the last shot of prop.

imo ed injects are worth the hassle for the abovementioned reasons.

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## doolo

This is fantastic, im gonna be running my first cycle of test p/mast p right away. Good to hear the prop isnt to bothersome.

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## FREAK

i got both eyes on this morph good kuck

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## Amorphic

*DAY 2*

*Did my second shot in my left quad. no problems with the injection today.

My delt is still sore from yesterdays injection but it isnt that bad.

Did legs today and had a great workout. I'm pushing myself harder now that i'm in the mindset that i'm on cycle.

Nothing amazing to report overall, but thats my update for the day.*

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## Amorphic

update:

the pain associate with prop is not an overstatement, this shit hurts. my quad is killing me, very tight and sore.

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## Obro

This will be fun to follow - Thanks for sharing dude.
Obro

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## RANA

> update:
> 
> the pain associate with prop is not an overstatement, this shit hurts. my quad is killing me, very tight and sore.


Are you diluting it with anything?

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## Amorphic

> Are you diluting it with anything?


no. the total for each shot is 1.5mls, half prop half npp. last night i could hardly walk. agonizing pain. probably due to the fact that both are known to irritate.

no redness or swelling though, just a lot of pain.

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## jAcKeD!!!!

morph check yo p.m

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## millionairemurph

Subscribed. Ive fould delt shots to be more painfull than other areas. Also, when i first started doing quads, some spot hurts more than others. I know my nerves are all dead or less sensitive in some areas from getting kicked so i shoot there and i can even feel the pin going in, much less soreness later.

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## Amorphic

> Subscribed. Ive fould delt shots to be more painfull than other areas. Also, when i first started doing quads, some spot hurts more than others. I know my nerves are all dead or less sensitive in some areas from getting kicked so i shoot there and i can even feel the pin going in, much less soreness later.


i see. thanks murph. im hoping the soreness goes away in a few days.

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## doolo

Hey, whats the prop dosed at? Is it based in Ethyl Oleate? Reason i ask is cause in my up coming cycle i have the choice between a more expensive EO based amp or regular 10ml viles.

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## oneshot

nice log. ill be following as well as im curious about npp results. for me, pec injections were the least painful but some people hate them.

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## Kingweb50

I will say its not the prop but its the lab you are using cause im using that lab with tren e and I have never felt the lasting pain from it untill I started the lab you are using a couple weeks ago.

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## Amorphic

> Hey, whats the prop dosed at? Is it based in Ethyl Oleate? Reason i ask is cause in my up coming cycle i have the choice between a more expensive EO based amp or regular 10ml viles.


100mgs/ml, 10ml vial.

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## Amorphic

> I will say its not the prop but its the lab you are using cause im using that lab with tren e and I have never felt the lasting pain from it untill I started the lab you are using a couple weeks ago.


yeah they are notorious for having high BA content. ive been limping hard all day and yesterday.

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## Amorphic

*DAY 3*

*did another quad shot tonight. 25g 1 inch. Injecting is becoming very easy and simple.

The pain in my left quad is amazing. I hardly slept last night due to the pain. A little swelling near my knee which i found to be odd but no signs of redness or infection.

I will be working back and bi's tomorrow before work, i doubt i will feel any different but i will keep the intensity up.

When should i be noticing testicular atrophy? My boys seem to be fine for the moment.

I'm getting impatient waiting for everything to kick in!*

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## WEBB

hey bro...

the pain you are feeling is from a few different sources and ahrd to pin point really....it is cause by, ba%, bb%, oil used, filtering process, powder source, cleanliness, and also how it was made... with swelling i would really be careful cause if it gets any worse get in to the doc and get some meds for it.... do not heat it as that can speed up infection, just watch it...if it is just muscle soreness or a deep bruise try and massage it, i know this hurts but i usually use a rolling pin and gently go over it until i can add more and more pressure...now this is only if it is not an infection, if it is meds are your best option, and better sooner than later...wait another day and pm me tomorrow night and let me know how you feel and ill judge from there....

now as for your balls, ahahaha...some guys dont get it and you might never know, i for one generally play with the boys daily so even if they got smaller playin with them daily would be hard to judge, just as we never reallly notice ourself changin till we see a old pic...ask you girl to take a check for you from week to week...also it should start to "kick In'' after the weekend around day 6 you should be really "on"....

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## Amorphic

> hey bro...
> 
> the pain you are feeling is from a few different sources and ahrd to pin point really....it is cause by, ba%, bb%, oil used, filtering process, powder source, cleanliness, and also how it was made... with swelling i would really be careful cause if it gets any worse get in to the doc and get some meds for it.... do not heat it as that can speed up infection, just watch it...if it is just muscle soreness or a deep bruise try and massage it, i know this hurts but i usually use a rolling pin and gently go over it until i can add more and more pressure...now this is only if it is not an infection, if it is meds are your best option, and better sooner than later...wait another day and pm me tomorrow night and let me know how you feel and ill judge from there....
> 
> now as for your balls, ahahaha...some guys dont get it and you might never know, i for one generally play with the boys daily so even if they got smaller playin with them daily would be hard to judge, just as we never reallly notice ourself changin till we see a old pic...ask you girl to take a check for you from week to week...also it should start to "kick In'' after the weekend around day 6 you should be really "on"....


excellent. thanks WEBB. i'll let you know how things go tomrrow.

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## WEBB

also do as Rana says...try and do your shot in the am so you can stretch it out during the day, if yo udo it before bed you will lay there and it will not get worked in properly....if you cant do it in the morning find a time that works but before you train not after i think that could be part of the problem in your leg, if you trained legs, did your shot, then went to bed that could be a cause of the muscle soreness...pm me or facebook me if you need any more help....

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## WEBB

oh ya one more thing, after you get the two loaded in your syringe try and run the syringe(with out the needle attached) under some very hot running water to help increase viscosity...that helped me when i was using painful prop at 200mg/ml....

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## dedic8ed1

Wouldn't cotten seed oil or a low dose equipoise help with the discomfort of the injection?The low dose Ganabol was a staple for mixing with water base stingers like suspension or anything that causes pain when injected.

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## CheddaNips

Ahh i was gonna run this cycle next summer. See morph. i told you the pain from my omnas was no joke (and thats only 50mg Prop). Cut it and warm it before you shoot. Heating pad and rubbing afterwards.

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## Amorphic

*DAY 4

Another successful injection. 22g 1.5" to the glute. my first quad shot still hurts mainly around my knee which is a bit of a concern to me. No redness or swelling anywhere and my injection technique is getting much smoother and better.

worked shoulders and tri's today and it was a good session. Although i doubt anything has kicked in, the psychological end of things along with the placebo effect is nice to keep me motivated. hopefully the results are not far off, within a few days i hope to be feeling something.
*

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## 10nispro

What up morph? Glad to see you took the plunge. I did quads with test e and it was painful for days. Hurt each time my quad contracted. I found doing the injections at night seemed better than during the day. Also, I heated prop and that helped lots as well. Never did mix it with anything. 

I will send you that lot# as requested. I also switched to a 20g 1 1/2 inch needle.

I will watch your thread and help as I can. Good Luck.

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## --Trojan--

finally a board with someone doing this cycle! subscribed! very interested to hear the effects on this one

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## CheddaNips

> *DAY 4
> 
> Another successful injection. 22g 1.5" to the glute. my first quad shot still hurts mainly around my knee which is a bit of a concern to me. No redness or swelling anywhere and my injection technique is getting much smoother and better.
> 
> worked shoulders and tri's today and it was a good session. Although i doubt anything has kicked in, the psychological end of things along with the placebo effect is nice to keep me motivated. hopefully the results are not far off, within a few days i hope to be feeling something.
> *


Hy morph, does it hurt on the outside of your knee? I have felt that when I inject quads, gravity takes place and the oil seeps around twords your knee.

I have seen this when i inject delts too and the next day the pain is on the side of my tri and not my delt.

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## Amorphic

> Hy morph, does it hurt on the outside of your knee? I have felt that when I inject quads, gravity takes place and the oil seeps around twords your knee.
> 
> I have seen this when i inject delts too and the next day the pain is on the side of my tri and not my delt.


yeah i think you may be on to something. also i think my injection technique on the second shot wasnt too good which also could have been another reason for the pain.

my glute shot yesterday was totally fine, just a little knot today, not even a big issue at all.

the quad shot still hurts though.

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## Kratos

Don't be afraid to take some anti-inflamitory med, ibuprofen works wonders for a sloppy injection.

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## SMCengineer

Damn Amorphic! I didn't know you started. I'm defnitely subscribed to this. You're gonna love it.

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## dupa95

I wiggle the neddle once that's all it took.

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## Amorphic

*DAY 5

Did my other glute shot today with the 22g 1.5" pin. glute shots are great, no discomfort at all other than a minor knot a few hours after the injection.

still not feeling anything yet. Today was an off day from the gym. Back/bi's tomorrow.*

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## Amorphic

*DAY 6

Shot in my other delt today. 25g 1" pin. 

Worked back/bi's today and pushed some decent weight. 

Barbell curls at 110 pounds (7)(6)
100 pounds (7) (7)

Lat pulldowns 180 (8) (8)
170 (8) (6)

i dont usually record my lifts so i cant remember everything that i did today but my back/bi's routine consists of: bent over barbell rows, lat pulldowns, bent over dumbbell rows, deads, barbell curls, hammer curls, pulley curls.

No noticable increases in strength yet, i did sleep really nicely last night. I'm excpecting things to kick in aroundd day 14.

Thats all for now.*

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## dupa95

Nice !!!!!!!

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## SMCengineer

> *
> i dont usually record my lifts so i cant remember everything that i did today*


Amorphic, I would seriously suggest you start making a detailed log of your lifts. It doesn't have to be anything special, but you need to keep exact exercises, weights and reps that you've used. Progressive resistance is key and if you're not keeping track of weights how are you gonna be certain of the exact weight you used and the number of reps you did the week before. Once you start using a log it'll become your best friend and worst enemy. It'll push you to your absolute limit because you have to be certain that you beat the prior weeks lifts if only by 2.5lbs or 1 rep. I kinda think of it as a fight against my log book every time I enter the gym.

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## Amorphic

> Amorphic, I would seriously suggest you start making a detailed log of your lifts. It doesn't have to be anything special, but you need to keep exact exercises, weights and reps that you've used. Progressive resistance is key and if you're not keeping track of weights how are you gonna be certain of the exact weight you used and the number of reps you did the week before. Once you start using a log it'll become your best friend and worst enemy. It'll push you to your absolute limit because you have to be certain that you beat the prior weeks lifts if only by 2.5lbs or 1 rep. I kinda think of it as a fight against my log book every time I enter the gym.


10-4.

starting a log asap. thanks buddy

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## Andro9

i found that prop hurts like a mother fkr but the more you do it the less the pain. even the second time around(in the same muscle, i wait 6-8 days before doing the same site) was not nearly as bad as 1st time injecting prop

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## Amorphic

> i found that prop hurts like a mother fkr but the more you do it the less the pain. even the second time around(in the same muscle, i wait 6-8 days before doing the same site) was not nearly as bad as 1st time injecting prop


yeah ive noticed that already. the first shots into virgin muscle were unbelievably painful but the recent ones ive done lately havent been bad at all, just a charlie horse feeling for a couple days.

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## audis4

subscribed! nice work so far amorphic!

be sure to check out my log beginning next week  :Wink:

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## Amorphic

*DAY 7

I was originally going to shoot my lower outer quad today. i loaded up the syringe per usual and jabbed it in. immediately my leg started twitching so i decided to pull out and move the placement. second jab in and i felt a pretty large amount of pain so i pulled out and changed the pin and decided to do a delt shot today.

i think i keep hitting the nerves in my quad, im not enjoying that area for injection.

delt shot went fine. 25g 1" to the right delt. today is an off day for the gym, chest and traps tomorrow.*

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## CheddaNips

i dont like quad injections at all. most nerves and shit. I get a solid inject like 1-2x out of 5 tries

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## Amorphic

i'm thinking about doing calf injections. anyone have experience with them? less painful or more, more nerves or less?

and lastly, would a 25g 1" pin be good for calves?

if calves are not a good choice, what about chest? 5/8" pin or 1"?

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## ChuckLee

I'd opt for pecs, calves, lats (hard to do your own tho), bicep peak and lateral tris

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## Amorphic

> I'd opt for pecs, calves, lats (hard to do your own tho), bicep peak and lateral tris


pin length for those shots?

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## ChuckLee

I use slin pins for pecs, bis and tris.
1inch needles for calves and lats

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## Amorphic

> I use slin pins for pecs, bis and tris.
> 1inch needles for calves and lats


what do you think about 25g 1" for bi's and pecs? too long?

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## ChuckLee

maybe they are fine for pecs, but personally I wouldn't risk to hurt my bis with such lenght.
There are usually very low fat deposits on biceps, so a 0.5" pin should be enough imo

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## Amorphic

*DAY 8

Chest injection today. 25g 1" pin. no discomfort at all. i'm glad i opted to try out the chest shots, they're a lot easier than quad shots and free of nerves.

did chest today, strength might be a little up. nothing drastic but i piled on more weight than i usually do. hopefully bigger results are on the way.

smith machine decline bench 225(10)(9) 245 (6) (6)
Incline dumbbell bench 70's (9)(9)(8)(6)
dumbbbell pullover 95 (10)(10) 100 (8)(6)
standing cables flyes 110s (8)(7)(7)*
*dumbbbell flyes 45s (8)(7)(7)*

*i'll start keeping a more detailed log of my lifts starting tomorrow.

thats all for now.*

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## CheddaNips

hey morph, you seeing your gear is real now or are you still worried

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## Amorphic

> hey morph, you seeing your gear is real now or are you still worried


i certainly dont feel 'on' if that explains it. im thinking its going to take until week 3 to really feel like im on a steroid cycle and make that transition where i can feel it all the time.

right now my workouts are alright, but i dont feel super pumped or anything at all.

sex drive hasnt changed whatsoever.

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## --Trojan--

but with the quick esters in the course shouldnt you be feeling it sooner? week 3 is near the same amount of time for longer esters to kick in and make their presence known in your body

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## Amorphic

> but with the quick esters in the course shouldnt you be feeling it sooner? week 3 is near the same amount of time for longer esters to kick in and make their presence known in your body


usually longer esters dont kick in fully until week 5

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## CheddaNips

yep i see week 5.5-6 for test E.

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## Amorphic

*DAY 9

Shot my other pec today.

Did legs today, felt a bit stronger. i was able to up my squat by 20 pounds and not notice a difference in weight.

I've been sleeping like total shit lately, the soreness of ed injections makes it pretty tough to get comfortable at night. I've also been dreaming a lot more lately, dont know if thats cycle related (ive heard people dream more on cycle) or not but its kind of neat.

I'm very much hoping to see things kick in fully by day 14. 

I've also found myself to be flushed in the face a lot during the day (no redness or anything, just warmth) and i seem to be sweating more during my workouts.

Ive been woken up a few times at night with night wood so maybe the test is starting to kick in.

Thats all for now.*

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## dupa95

Nice i would be eating lunch at work and get wood it's phuckin great.

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## Amorphic

*DAY 10

Glute shot today. I'm seriously starting to stress about the possibility that the compounds are underdosed or fake.

interestingly enough, my libido seems to be down as well as the amount of ejaculate when i get off.

Any thoughts on this?

I've also been sleeping like absolute SHIT lately as well as sweating like a tank. Off day from the gym today, thats all for now.*

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## RANA

> *DAY 10
> 
> Glute shot today. I'm seriously starting to stress about the possibility that the compounds are underdosed or fake.
> 
> interestingly enough, my libido seems to be down as well as the amount of ejaculate when i get off.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?
> 
> I've also been sleeping like absolute SHIT lately as well as sweating like a tank. Off day from the gym today, thats all for now.*


I am not sure about your libido but some of the sides effecys of NPP are "can be bothersome in hypersensitive individuals, such as acne, excitation, insomnia, nausea, diarrhea and bladder irritability"

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## Amorphic

> I am not sure about your libido but some of the sides effecys of NPP are "can be bothersome in hypersensitive individuals, such as acne, *excitation,* *insomnia*, nausea, diarrhea and bladder irritability"


definetly got those 2.

the interesting thing is the serial numbers etc for my gear all check out and the npp even has a pdf batch report confirming the dosage.

 :Shrug:  im scared.

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## RANA

You have only been on it 10 days, I think this is your 1st cycle. Your body is most likely going through an adjustment. You are running a couple of good compounds ED, let your body get used to it.

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## Amorphic

> You have only been on it 10 days, I think this is your 1st cycle. Your body is most likely going through an adjustment. You are running a couple of good compounds ED, let your body get used to it.


yeah im hoping its just paranoia. its pretty sad that i would be happy to see some shrunken balls or acne to know it good to go haha.

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## thetank

yeah dont fret man, i wouldnt be expecting anything yet either..but again i understand your frustration. chin up brutha, 99% chance that within a weekyou'll be laughing at how stressed you were about you gear being real. it sounds legit, and for the amount of time youve been on, not noticing any real change is also legit imo. just try and stay focused, eat like a horse, and keep yourself on track man cause at this point in your cycle, as much as i know i would probably be stressin the same way you are, nothing here is really out of the ordinary, right? 
keep killin that gym man,
peace
tank

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## SMCengineer

Are you on an AI right now?

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## ChuckLee

What about the gains/changes so far Morph?

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## Andro9

> i'm thinking about doing calf injections. anyone have experience with them? less painful or more, more nerves or less?
> 
> and lastly, would a 25g 1" pin be good for calves?
> 
> if calves are not a good choice, what about chest? 5/8" pin or 1"?


please dont do calf injections.. i have said this many times since i did it a bout a week and a half ago lol.. its the worst damn feeling i can describe couldnt walk AT ALL for 2 days then limped around for the next 5 days. calves are no no's imo. was using prop also, shot 1ml in and will never think about it again haha

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## Andro9

> *DAY 9
> 
> Shot my other pec today.
> 
> Did legs today, felt a bit stronger. i was able to up my squat by 20 pounds and not notice a difference in weight.
> 
> I've been sleeping like total shit lately, the soreness of ed injections makes it pretty tough to get comfortable at night. I've also been dreaming a lot more lately, dont know if thats cycle related (ive heard people dream more on cycle) or not but its kind of neat.
> 
> I'm very much hoping to see things kick in fully by day 14. 
> ...



i also sweat like crazy when on cycle, even when im not working out lol. as for having more dreams its because you aren't sleeping as deeply as you usually do and you remember them, its not like you didnt have dreams before, maybe its from the pain or something. i also have a hard time dealing with ED injections, but hell if it was all fun and games you wouldnt appriciate the results as much.. right  :Smilie:  i am going thru the same thing so good luck to you bro

----------


## Amorphic

> Are you on an AI right now?


no, but i have arimidex on hand




> What about the gains/changes so far Morph?


no gains/changes yet.

----------


## Amorphic

i'll be giving this 7 more days. if i am not noticing any results by then, i will be stopping the cycle. something definetly doesnt seem right.

im going to pick up some human grade stuff asap in case i stop this cycle.

----------


## Andro9

you havent even gained water weight?

----------


## Amorphic

> you havent even gained water weight?


nothing no.

sitting at 210

----------


## WEBB

Ygpm

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 11

Did another glute shot today.

WEBB you may be on to something with what you said in your PM.

I'm going to keep shooting until the results show up or i know the stuff is underdosed/fake.

i'm sleeping like ass every night and its kind of draining me. Yesterday and today were off days from the gym, im doing tris/shoulders tomorrow and i will update on strength increases if i have any.*

----------


## RANA

> *DAY 11
> 
> Did another glute shot today.
> 
> WEBB you may be on to something with what you said in your PM.
> 
> I'm going to keep shooting until the results show up or i know the stuff is underdosed/fake.
> 
> i'm sleeping like ass every night and its kind of draining me. Yesterday and today were off days from the gym, im doing tris/shoulders tomorrow and i will update on strength increases if i have any.*


What no PM's for me? Let me know what's up because I am looking at this for a future cycle.

----------


## Amorphic

*UPDATE:

I am stopping the cycle. I am almost 100% positive the gear is underdosed/fake.

My source says they will reship everything for me but i dont think i will use their stuff again.

Unfortunate and disappointing but i will move on.

I have another lab to go to, one that is very well reviewed and will ship domestic.

When i get my new stuff in a couple weeks i will start another thread to log the process.

I will also keep this thread updated on whether or not i get a reshipment of the lab i have now.*

----------


## RANA

> *UPDATE:
> 
> I am stopping the cycle. I am almost 100% positive the gear is underdosed/fake.
> 
> My source says they will reship everything for me but i dont think i will use their stuff again.
> 
> Unfortunate and disappointing but i will move on.
> 
> I have another lab to go to, one that is very well reviewed and will ship domestic.
> ...


I understand and I am very sorry to hear about this.

----------


## ChuckLee

Get a new source bro. Fvk them

----------


## dedic8ed1

Sorry to hear it buddy,keep your head up your time will come.

----------


## RBD85

> *UPDATE:
> 
> I am stopping the cycle. I am almost 100% positive the gear is underdosed/fake.
> 
> My source says they will reship everything for me but i dont think i will use their stuff again.
> 
> Unfortunate and disappointing but i will move on.
> 
> I have another lab to go to, one that is very well reviewed and will ship domestic.
> ...


I know exactly how you feel bro... lotta fakes running around now. Im gonna stick to human grade until things turn around.

----------


## zartan

> *UPDATE:
> 
> I am stopping the cycle. I am almost 100% positive the gear is underdosed/fake.
> 
> My source says they will reship everything for me but i dont think i will use their stuff again.
> 
> Unfortunate and disappointing but i will move on.
> 
> I have another lab to go to, one that is very well reviewed and will ship domestic.
> ...


 :Hmmmm:  those wankers.

----------


## shifty_git

Sorry to hear that morph!

Sucks as it was ya first cycle

*group hug*

----------


## gixxerboy1

sorry about your gear

BTW i use 25g 1 inch for bies and im smaller then you and chuck

----------


## audis4

ah man, that sucks major!
Dude, i'd be so pissed!!
Were you about 2 weeks into your cycle and decided to stop?

----------


## WEBB

sorry to hear that man...pm me what you agreed with about my pm though please, and also why the change of heart so fast....

----------


## Amorphic

so i figure in about a month i will have my legit stuff, maybe quicker.

i will continue this thread when things get rolling again.

----------


## Gears

Hey man, me an you are using the same UGL. I`m 5 weeks in and I don`t feel like i`m on a cycle at all, the only thing I notice is not sleeping well. I don`t know wth they are putting in their products but you`re right, something isin`t right...

----------


## Amorphic

> Hey man, me an you are using the same UGL. I`m 5 weeks in and I don`t feel like i`m on a cycle at all, the only thing I notice is not sleeping well. I don`t know wth they are putting in their products but you`re right, something isin`t right...


that sucks bro. shoot them a ticket and get it sorted out. good luck.

----------


## RANA

> that sucks bro. shoot them a ticket and get it sorted out. good luck.


WTF, they better get there shit together!!!

----------


## ecto9

Sorry to hear about that bro. Human grade is the only way to go IMO. Get amps bro.

----------


## WEBB

amps can be faked as well, and are just about as frequently, maybe not now with all the UGL shit but not long ago they were just as faked....

i was going to use the same UGL but i am glad i didnt now....thanks for the feedback guys...

----------


## D-Unit 39

That sucks dude... I was about to place an order from the same lab until I was pointed to check out this thread. Keep us updated on what happens with the re-ship

----------


## thetank

sorry to hear bro, props for taking things in stride tho man, another couple weeks and you'll be back on schedule. 
good luck.
peace
tank

----------


## CheddaNips

i knew that lab was going downhill bro. They are tanking left and right. I know the source you are getting now is crazy good. Overnight that shit..

Hope all is good

----------


## Amorphic

> i knew that lab was going downhill bro. They are tanking left and right. I know the source you are getting now is crazy good. Overnight that shit..
> 
> Hope all is good


yep its overnighted already, i'll have it by tuesday

----------


## RANA

> yep its overnighted already, i'll have it by tuesday


Sounds great

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 1

got my new stuff today. 200mgs/ml prop and 200mgs/ml npp. im going to run 80 days at 100mgs/ed of each. Its a bit on the high side but im going to take the chance.

Did my shot today, glutes. I will begin updates as usual starting today.

here we go again!*

----------


## dupa95

Nice !!!!!

----------


## WEBB

pidder padder lets get at it bro.... :LOL:  :LOL:

----------


## Kingweb50

did you decide on the hg this time?

----------


## Amorphic

> did you decide on the hg this time?


its an ugl that is pharm grade, their products are supposed to be the absolute best of the best. all overdosed and overfilled. nothing but praise for them

----------


## ecto9

2nd time's the charm!

----------


## CheddaNips

ya morph. Senak me some of them down here for me  :Smilie: 

Glad to see you are back on track. I wish i could get my hands on that lab. Keep us updated.

----------


## RBD85

4 pages later and the log begins lol. g/l morph lookin forward to see how you like it.

----------


## RANA

Good luck

----------


## 10nispro

Good Luck with this bout....Atleast you want have virgin muscle....I as well had your bad luck.

Will try again in a three weeks...

Whats up Rana? You moving anytime soon?

----------


## shifty_git

Great job morph!

Hope this will restore ya faith back in the dark side!!!

----------


## ChuckLee

Aaaah, this is a kickass cycle, good to hear bro.
Fvk those are some huge concetrated gears, good luck with them!

Test P has to hurt a "bit" doesn't it?

----------


## CheddaNips

> Aaaah, this is a kickass cycle, good to hear bro.
> Fvk those are some huge concetrated gears, good luck with them!
> 
> Test P has to hurt a "bit" doesn't it?


if test P 200 dosent hurt and it is real, im moving to canada.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 2

did other glute shot today. no pain at all from this gear. i emailed the rep wondering why and he said some guys are sensitive to it and other experience basically no pain.

i think the pain from my bogus stuff was more related to the high BA content. this stuff is 2% BA and 20% BB so the discomfort from high BA content sure wont be there.

I've been assured by several people that this stuff is the best of the best and that i have nothing to worry about but im still paranoid...having bogus stuff makes you a little leery.

did another 100mgs of each compound today. im sure it will be kicking in quick.*

----------


## ecto9

Looking forward to round 2 on this one. Good luck and have fun!

----------


## thetank

glad to hear you're back on schedule man, good luck with everything bro.
peace
tank

----------


## WEBB

i am sure your just freakin yourself out man....go get growing and you know your stuff is good...

----------


## Amorphic

> i am sure your just freakin yourself out man....go get growing and you know your stuff is good...


yeah im definetly paranoid.  :LOL:

----------


## ChuckLee

You're a lucky guy if you don't feel any pain from that stuff...good for you bro, keep it going!

----------


## Amorphic

> You're a lucky guy if you don't feel any pain from that stuff...good for you bro, keep it going!


very much hoping its legit. although EVERYONE keeps reassuring me lol.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 3

Did a delt shot today. I must have went through a vein going in because the site was bleeding a lot half way through my shot. 

Trained shoulders and tris today and felt really good, a little winded but the workout was solid.*

----------


## doolo

Im on day 4 of prop/mast 50mg ED and i have experienced the shortness of breath in my last two workouts

----------


## Kratos

> 2nd time's the charm!


No, that's 3 time, so throw it out morph and start over.

----------


## Amorphic

> No, that's 3 time, so throw it out morph and start over.


lol, lets hope not

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 4

Insomnia is hitting me hard now. Last 2 nights ive been up till 630am.

I have a bit of acne on my back now as well. Libido feels different, in a negative way, most likely due to the NPP. 700mgs a week for both might give me some libido issues so i might have to watch that.

Lost a bit of oil in my delt shot today after i pulled the pin out, i may need to inject slower and leave the pin in longer.

Off day today, back and bi's tomorrow.*

----------


## ecto9

I read on a Med site that it's actually O.K. to have a little air (quarter ml) in the srynge at the top near the plunger and to use it to push the gear in farther WITH the air. It actually takes alot of air injected to cause problems. This is the article:

If you'er getting leakage out of inject site also this method will help:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_2699003862

----------


## CheddaNips

Dan Duchaine published that it would take up to 10mL injected I.V. to kill someone.

----------


## Gears

Hey bro, I hope the new stuff works out for you. I`m getting the stuff re-sent to me, i`ll probably use it just to see if the UGL has completely gone downhill or not. I`ll report back to those who are interested.

----------


## SMCengineer

I just hope I don't have the same ugl you were running. I guess I'll find out in a few weeks.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 5

Off today from the gym today. Slept a bit better last night. Nothing too crazy to report yet. i feel a little different, kind of lethargic. Had a headache all day that still wont go away. Work is tough right now so thats kind of interfering with things.

Hopefully i can wake up early enough tomorrow to hit the gym.

Shot chest today with 25g 1"*

----------


## 10nispro

> Dan Duchaine published that it would take up to 10mL injected I.V. to kill someone.


That is true. It takes approx. 10cc of air(air embolism) to block a major artery or lung to through your body into cardiac arrest.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 6

Worked back and bi's today. i cant really tell if im any stronger yet.

im sweating a lot now at work which is kind of annoying and my insomnia is relentless.

sex drive remains normal if not a bit lower than usual.

workout was decent, pumps felt good, overall i feel pretty tired/lethargic*

----------


## ChuckLee

Sounds like you got only sides so far.
At least you know that your products are legit this time  :Wink/Grin: 

Good luck bro.

----------


## CheddaNips

ya looks like you got some awesome gear that is producing only sides.

What if you got no gains and just sides? lol

----------


## ecto9

Have faith and be patient bro. You'll know better after another week or so...

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 7

Shot my bicep today with 25g 1". never done this site before so there was a bit of a pinch upon entry, but other than that it went fine.

off day from the gym today, chest tomorrow.

i managed to sleep decently last night but i feel pretty tired all the time. my muscles feel a bit tighter now throughout most of the day which is nice.*

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 8 

Another bicep shot today. Chest day felt fantastic today, all my weights were up and my agression seemed to be higher. Weights feel more comfortable in my hands and my confidence seems to be up as well.

Leg day tomorrow.

Weight is 210-211, no noticable change yet*

----------


## manwitplans

Sounds like things are picking up, good to hear. Let the show begin

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 9

Insomnia is killing me. I'm up till like 8am now.

Shot my glute today and must have went through a vein because once i pulled the pin out a shitload of blood came out of the site. I just hope i didnt lose any oil when the blood came out.

Worked legs today, wasnt anything special, i probably should have taken today off and rested.

Hopefully i can get a good sleep tonight.

I also have a headache again today and feel very warm/sweaty all the time*

----------


## ironaddict69

YES...FINALLY. I feel like I am darth vader and you are luke, Only I succeeded in turning you evil after I cut your hand off... :Starwars: 


Ok now insomnia...why? Theres no tren involved here.

Choices are either melatonin, or a ** sleep aid. But thats crucial here for results IMHO.
Are you still training EOD? Becuase thats when my strength and size/energy skyrocketed.

----------


## Andro9

drink more water if your sweating all the time. maybe help with your headaches

----------


## Amorphic

> YES...FINALLY. I feel like I am darth vader and you are luke, Only I succeeded in turning you evil after I cut your hand off...
> 
> 
> Ok now insomnia...why? Theres no tren involved here.
> 
> Choices are either melatonin, or a ** sleep aid. But thats crucial here for results IMHO.
> Are you still training EOD? Becuase thats when my strength and size/energy skyrocketed.


i was waiting for you to post in here bro!

shifty said he got insomnia and night sweats on npp as well, i think its a 19nor characteristic.

i definetly need to get more sleep though, i feel horrid right now.

yes, i usually train eod.

----------


## ironaddict69

Holy shit, im having a little bit of that even from my lose dose deca you just made me realize. I only use fuxin 160 mg a week too.

Oh and ill be following this dont you worry.

----------


## SMCengineer

> shifty said he got insomnia and night sweats on npp as well, *i think its a 19nor characteristic.*


It is. I got it all the time on Deca , as well as night sweats and this was in the fall.

----------


## SMCengineer

Amorphic, you start recording your lifts yet?

----------


## zartan

> It is. I got it all the time on Deca, as well as night sweats and this was in the fall.


I've had night sweats through my entire cycle (currently on week 8) and I'm only running Sustanon ! I sweat to the point where I wake up and the sheets are soaked. Luckily I have a king sized bed so I just roll over and its all good.

----------


## RBD85

> I've had night sweats through my entire cycle (currently on week 8) and I'm only running Sustanon! I sweat to the point where I wake up and the sheets are soaked. Luckily I have a king sized bed so I just roll over and its all good.


smells like sit the next day though.. dont forget to change the sheets before you invite a girl over.

----------


## zartan

> smells like sit the next day though.. dont forget to change the sheets before you invite a girl over.


Yeah I hate changing my sheets though, coin laundry is a hassle too. Maybe once a month. They dont really stink but theres a ton of spooge stains right now haha  :Bukkake:

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 10

Insomnia is totally fcking me up. I was up till 930am this morning, slept in till about 2. I have a headache today again as well.

Off day from the gym today, my entire body is sore from training so hard. 

My bicep shots were the most painful things ever, massive pump all day long and intense pain. definetly due to being virgin muscle since all my other shots are painless.

Weight is up a touch, 2 pounds or so right now.

More to come tomorrow*

----------


## dedic8ed1

> *DAY 10
> 
> Insomnia is totally fcking me up. I was up till 930am this morning, slept in till about 2. I have a headache today again as well.
> 
> Off day from the gym today, my entire body is sore from training so hard. 
> 
> My bicep shots were the most painful things ever, massive pump all day long and intense pain. definetly due to being virgin muscle since all my other shots are painless.
> 
> Weight is up a touch, 2 pounds or so right now.
> ...


Save yourself the pain bud just hit the delts,no site enhancement with aas any way.Sleepless nights suck at least you know your gear is real.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 11

Bicep is still very swollen and irritated, its getting better though.

Shot my delt today, no issues.

Insomnia is still taking its toll on me, i feel extremely tired and irritable now.

Worked shoulders and tris today and it went well. my chest looks slightly fuller already and overall i seem to look a bit bigger. Some friends of mine already say im looking a bit bigger.

Lifts feel good and overall i feel strong, just very very tired.*

----------


## ironaddict69

Dude, your not gonna make it if you dont start sleeping. Either try the melatonin, or hit up a doc, trust me. you think your getting stronger now? Let me be the one to tell you CNS=strength. Imagine how much you would be lifting if you werent run down! Shit I dont even lift if Im run down now I just take another one off.

----------


## RANA

Damn Amorphic,
I have been gone for a couple of weeks. It sounds like it's been a rough couple of weeks.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 12

Delt shot today, some of the oil leaked out which pissed me off. i managed to sleep better last night though. 

Bicep is still swollen and red. Overall i feel decent, not really amazing or anything. Taking the weekend off, back and biceps on monday*

----------


## football2007

good to see u trashed that stuff..

I hope I had you convinced that those batch numbers dont mean jack shit  :Wink:

----------


## ironaddict69

> *DAY 12
> 
> Delt shot today, some of the oil leaked out which pissed me off. i managed to sleep better last night though. 
> 
> Bicep is still swollen and red. Overall i feel decent, not really amazing or anything. Taking the weekend off, back and biceps on monday*


Sometimes mine does a little too, thats why I quickly put alot of pressure on it with a paper towel, rub it for a few hard seconds, then swab it again.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 13

bicep still hurts, a bit of swelling still and redness. Did a chest shot today, went fine. Chest is definetly my favorite site to shoot.

Back/bi's tomorrow*

----------


## WEBB

why are you using all these sites mna...just curious but i have done 2.5ml's a day every day for 24 weeks in one cycle and just used legs, glutes and delts and sometimes bi's...why the need for chest and stuff....

----------


## Amorphic

> why are you using all these sites mna...just curious but i have done 2.5ml's a day every day for 24 weeks in one cycle and just used legs, glutes and delts and sometimes bi's...why the need for chest and stuff....


just trying out all the sites. i want to keep scar tissue to a minimum as well and utilizing a lot of sites works well.

ive had no issues other than the biceps

----------


## WEBB

ok kewl...just wondering...i use chest for slin or gh or igf only...i love biceps for aas though....feels so tight and soo full after...

----------


## Amorphic

still waiting for that 'feeling' to come though. i feel stronger and am moving more weight nicely but i dont think my libido is doing to well with all the npp.

weight gain hasnt really started yet either

----------


## Kratos

My guess is if you are moving more weight but not gaining weight, you will be leaner when you come off. Try eating even more. For the libido try .25mg e4d caber if you have it.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 14

had a good back/bi workout today, arms were so pumped i could hardly curl.

chest shot today, no issues. chest is definetly my favorite place to pin.

weight is about the same, 213 or so. i need to really up my food intake as work has kind of thrown my diet off.

Didnt sleep too well last night either but i feel alright. I have more body odor now as well which is kind of annoying and i sweat a lot now too.*

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 15

Bicep shot today, hit a nerve the first time so i had to move the placement a bit.

Off day from the gym today. chest and traps tomorrow. Didnt sleep well at all last night but im basically used to it now, sucks though.

Weight is still the same, 210-212

mehhhh*

----------


## WEBB

why is your weight the same....r u dieting...like your bulking but clean right...hows the diet...eating enough good food...like i am in a deficit everyday for sure just a bit of one, but my weight is the same but i am losing fat....you should be going up daily....i think your diet might be off man...hope i dont piss you off for saying that...just concerneed man

----------


## Amorphic

> why is your weight the same....r u dieting...like your bulking but clean right...hows the diet...eating enough good food...like i am in a deficit everyday for sure just a bit of one, but my weight is the same but i am losing fat....you should be going up daily....i think your diet might be off man...hope i dont piss you off for saying that...just concerneed man


no offense taken WEBB, i am going to up my food intake since i think all the labor i do at work might be throwing me off a bit. the goal for this cycle is a bulk.

----------


## RANA

> no offense taken WEBB, i am going to up my food intake since i think all the labor i do at work might be throwing me off a bit. the goal for this cycle is a bulk.


I noticed when I was on my cycle for about a 1 1/2 weeks I dropped some of my food intake and I did not have any gains, I then increased my food intake and my gains started to come back.

Good luck and I hope this works, nice catch WEBB...
I will pray to the Gear Gods to help you out...LOL

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 16

Shot glutes today, no issues.

i had the most fantastic chest day ever today. massive massive increases in strength and confidence under the weights. Amazing feeling. great chest pump as well.

Picked up some melatonin so hopefully it will help me sleep tonight. I'm very VERY happy with the workout i had today*

----------


## WEBB

> no offense taken WEBB, i am going to up my food intake since i think all the labor i do at work might be throwing me off a bit. the goal for this cycle is a bulk.


k good, didnt wanna seem like a dik, just think that might be the weight issue, but it looks like your strenght is up and thats a good sign...now go eat....




> *DAY 16
> 
> Shot glutes today, no issues.
> 
> i had the most fantastic chest day ever today. massive massive increases in strength and confidence under the weights. Amazing feeling. great chest pump as well.
> 
> Picked up some melatonin so hopefully it will help me sleep tonight. I'm very VERY happy with the workout i had today*



nice work man :7up:

----------


## ironaddict69

Sounds like your getting some amazing pumps. The only thing that gave me a decent pump really was dbol !

----------


## dedic8ed1

> I noticed when I was on my cycle for about a 1 1/2 weeks I dropped some of my food intake and I did not have any gains, I then increased my food intake and my gains started to come back.
> 
> Good luck and I hope this works, nice catch WEBB...
> I will pray to the Gear Gods to help you out...LOL


I experienced the same problem then when I started bumping my cals on a bulking level the gains were immediate.

----------


## Amorphic

> I experienced the same problem then when I started bumping my cals on a bulking level the gains were immediate.


good call boys...ramping up the diet immediately

----------


## CheddaNips

Good shit morph. 

Im searously thinkin bout moving to canada to get my hands on that lab.

----------


## Amorphic

> Good shit morph. 
> 
> Im searously thinkin bout moving to canada to get my hands on that lab.


it'd probably be worth your while :Wink/Grin: 

its about time canadians had something worthwhile though

----------


## RANA

> it'd probably be worth your while
> 
> its about time canadians had something worthwhile though


Don't get too excited remember you have Céline Dion

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 17

Glute shot today. no issues.

leg day tomorrow. weight remains around 210-212. diet is up.*

----------


## Kratos

find your inner fat kid and eat, eat, eat

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 18

Delt shot today, no issues. z-tracked the injection to make sure the oil wouldnt leak out as it seems to do with my delt shots.

Worked legs today, squats are sitting at 275 comfortably. I used to neglect squats so i dont have a massive weight for them yet but i am progressing along.

Insomnia was the shits last night, melatonin seems to be doing nothing to help, even at 10mgs 1/2 an hour before bed.

Weight is up to 215. I'm eating a ton now. My jeans seem to be fitting looser around the waist as well.

Testicular atrophy is starting as well i believe. Nothing dramatic yet but they appear to be a little down in size.*

----------


## ironaddict69

What is Z-tracking an injection?

----------


## Amorphic

> What is Z-tracking an injection?


before you pin yourself you pull the skin sideways where you want to inject. you then pin yourself and keep the skin pulled sideways while you inject.

upon removing the pin you release the skin and it slides back straight, sealing the hole and keeping the oil in.

----------


## Amorphic



----------


## WEBB

^^^ hahaha "medication"...hahaha

----------


## RANA

> 


Check out the guy with the big brain

----------


## bigt10

Hey i hope your gear is good bro.

I find to gain big you gotta eat big.

how many calories are you going to go.


This is the problem with this source stuff now guys...

Are we talking about that lab or the source that sells his shit?

This is the problem i think another budy got bullshit gear from these guys.

A*** the lab or the main source that sells it? 

LIke chedda said if this is the same one i think me freind got underdosed TestE from them. They are always out of stock to!


Is there any way now any sites or any places that regularly test bacthes of gear. I googled up for reports and nothing around august 2007  :Frown: . Before that they used to test batches of common UGL's and post results of the quality.


Source disucssion is bad but it isnt nice when you get bad bunk gear. We gotta find some kind of better system here. Man amorphic good luck but that must suck to get fake or underdosed shit.

I am not implying we should give away sources not at all. But we need some kind of Way to stay up with the common UGL's and some kind of way to test them. MOst have holograms serial #''s etc now so we can look up the info. But without even knowing about the actual labs quality this is really bad.

----------


## Amorphic

yeah the problem is that most ugls fake their batch reports etc. SRCS was busted so theres no way to independantly test gear anymore. its a huge blow to the steroid world since there is no way to know what you're getting from anyone.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 19

No gym today as ive been flooded with hours at work, i planned to go tomorrow for shoulders and tris but wont be able to go until monday since i have a ton of hours to work tomorrow that will eat up my day.

Delt shot today, no issues. sleeping like absolute hell though.

I wish things were a bit more dramatic in terms of raw weight gain, but we all know that steroids arent magic.*

----------


## 10nispro

Have you tried adjusting the dosage of the npp to help with the insomnia? If you did sorry for asking and get over it. lol

----------


## Amorphic

> Have you tried adjusting the dosage of the npp to help with the insomnia? If you did sorry for asking and get over it. lol


nah, im going to keep it at 100mgs a day. i know its a high dose but i want to pack on as much mass as i can.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 20

Off day today, shoulders and tris tomorrow. Still trying to eat a ton and keep calories clean. chest shot today, no issues.*

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 21

Strength is progressively getting better and better, i feel very strong under the weights. Did shoulders and tri's and my previous before cycle shoulder pain is nonexistant now. 

Weight is now 217.

Chest shot today.*

----------


## ironaddict69

Ok well we know the gear is legit then (shoulder pain gone+ weight up.) I haven't read hardly any of these pages as theres so many posts, but I saw a few questioning legitimacy.

Be sure to let us know when you hit PR's, Im always more interested in strength gains, and with NPP I bet your gonna get A LOT.

----------


## Amorphic

> Ok well we know the gear is legit then (shoulder pain gone+ weight up.) I haven't read hardly any of these pages as theres so many posts, but I saw a few questioning legitimacy.
> 
> Be sure to let us know when you hit PR's, Im always more interested in strength gains, and with NPP I bet your gonna get A LOT.


my first stuff was fake and i stopped the cycle.

i got new stuff (which im running now)

----------


## ironaddict69

Hot damn, that sucks but at least your gonna be able to run a real one now.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 22

Off day today, bicep shot, no issues.

Sleeping a bit better now, melatonin might be working. overall my chest seems nice and full which was one of the areas i was hoping to see the most improvement in.

Back/bis tomorrow.*

----------


## 10nispro

Hey bro, just checking on you. Looks like things are going better and weight is up.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 23

Bicep shot today. Couldnt make it to the gym since i slept in and started work early today.

nothing to report today.*

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 24

Glute shot today. Worked back and bi's but i felt pretty gassed. didnt get much sleep last night and it showed in my workout. Weights are still going up though and i feel very pumped. Dumbbell bicep curls at 55 pounds felt nice.

Not much else to report today.*

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 25

Coulnt make it to the gym yet again and probably wont be able to till monday. pain in the ass for sure.

Quad shot today. Nothing to report really. Weight is up and sleep is horrid.

I'll hit up the bowflex for the next few days to keep myself pumped up until i can hit the gym on monday.*

----------


## ironaddict69

Well a little rest might not be bad. Im tellin you man, get some prescription sleep meds...this will go a lot better.

----------


## Amorphic

> Well a little rest might not be bad. Im tellin you man, get some prescription sleep meds...this will go a lot better.


i want to get some ambien but im not sure what to tell my doc. thoughts?

----------


## RANA

> i want to get some ambien but im not sure what to tell my doc. thoughts?


Tell him that you are stressed with work, school and your finances and you are unable to sleep, plus you can tell him that you found out that you are French-Canadian and you really cant sleepLOL

----------


## 10nispro

Da**, Rana that was funny....lol

I do think the insomnia is causing bad results.

----------


## zartan

> i want to get some ambien but im not sure what to tell my doc. thoughts?


ambien doesnt really do that much for me, you shouldnt have problems getting it though. excedrin pm and shit like that works well, so does benadryl. Theres a new sleep med you might ask your md about, its based on tryptofan (spelling), the same chemical from turkey that makes you sleepy.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 26

No gym today unforunately. only one more day of work to go before days off though so i will hit the weights hard monday.

Didnt sleep good last night, no suprise.

Still feel strong as hell but the tired feeling sucks*

----------


## SMCengineer

> plus you can tell him that you found out that you are French-Canadian and you really cant sleepLOL


Haha...nice burn

----------


## Amorphic

> Haha...nice burn


non, non.

----------


## SMCengineer

> non, non.


what's that mean?

----------


## Amorphic

> what's that mean?


 :LOL:

----------


## SMCengineer

^^I even tried looking it up so I wouldn't feel dumb.  :Frown:

----------


## Amorphic

oui is yes, non is no.

----------


## SMCengineer

> oui is yes, non is no.


you shouldn't makeup languages.

----------


## RANA

> you shouldn't makeup languages.


It must be one of those ancient languages that have died out.

----------


## naturalsux

> ambien doesnt really do that much for me, you shouldnt have problems getting it though. excedrin pm and shit like that works well, so does benadryl. Theres a new sleep med you might ask your md about, its based on tryptofan (spelling), the same chemical from turkey that makes you sleepy.



thats an amino acid tryptophan, i think thats the correct way to spell it.

also benadryl is in tylenol pm, im sure its the same in excedrin pm. just take benadryl.

----------


## QBERT

Ambien CR. CR stands for controlled release. This works well for me. It comes in 12.5mg and 1 is all you need! The controlled release keeps me from waking up frequently throughout the night. Tried regular ambien before and it got me to sleep, but I would wake up again in a few hours.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 27

Delt shot today. Little bit of acne on my bicep now, and a tad on my shoulders.

Gym tomorrow finally for chest/traps*

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 28

Delt shot today.

Chest day was fantastic today, breaking all my records for weight.

managed to get 110 pound dumbbells up for flat press comfortably which is a new personal best.*

----------


## pump.joe

Nice, glad it is legit gear this time! Weight still at 217?

----------


## Amorphic

> Nice, glad it is legit gear this time! Weight still at 217?


yes. more than anything i think i have the hardest time managing to eat enough.

strength is absolutely awesome though.

----------


## SMCengineer

> DAY 28
> 
> Delt shot today.
> 
> Chest day was fantastic today, breaking all my records for weight.
> 
> *managed to get 110 pound dumbbells up for flat press comfortably which is a new personal best*.


Just curious, what do you flat bench?

----------


## pump.joe

> yes. more than anything i think i have the hardest time managing to eat enough.


Just gotta buckle down and do it! I read somewhere that casein leaves you feeling less satiated than other forms of protein... maybe try adding extra casein throughout the day?

----------


## ironaddict69

Sorry I havent replied brutha, but I'll touch on this quickly.

Getting the ambien wont be a problem. Tell your dr your stressed cant sleep at all etc, bang you got it.

the chemical in turkey L-tryptophan, is not a new drug, they have been using that for sleep for a while I believe. Stay AWAY from benadryl or any of those "PM" medecines that knock you out, they linger in me till about the 15'th hour, I feel like I was shot with a horse tranquilizer.

----------


## Amorphic

> Just curious, what do you flat bench?


with a barbell i do my heaviest sets with 255-275.

i had a nagging shoulder injury when i was doing heavy freeweight dumbbell millitary press that seemed to be hindering me under the bar.

Since swapping over to dumbbells the pain has gone away and i feel much better pressing.

----------


## thetank

hey man, glad to see your cycle is going well bro. you need to take advantage of this shit and EAT tho man, goddamn! if time is an issue, make meals the night before, if money is an issue, switch to minute steak(hey that helps the time issue too lol) regardless, theres no excuse for not eating enough mayng, choke that shit down!!!
anyway, ive been lurking this thread every day....PUMPED to see the gains piling up bro. keep kickin ass.
peace
tank

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 29

Chest still feels nice and pumped. Off day today, legs tomorrow.

Weight is 220*

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 30

leg day today. i should have pushed harder but i was totally bagged and had to rush to work afterwards.
nothing to report really today*

----------


## 92whitelx

Nice log, need some pics

----------


## football2007

Yo..been following most the thread..just havent posted much

Glad you have real stuff now...how many hours are you workin??

----------


## Amorphic

> Yo..been following most the thread..just havent posted much
> 
> Glad you have real stuff now...how many hours are you workin??


40+ a week. 215-1045.

its tough because i have a hard time sleeping and i have just enough time in the morning to make food and hit the gym before my shift starts.

----------


## Amorphic

*Day 31

off day today. trying to eat a lot more still. im cooking my food for work when i get home at night to have ready to go for the morning.

weight is around 218-219

i have had a few people say that my face looks puffy but overall water retention and bloat is low.*

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 32

Started my shoulder/tri workout and got about half way through before i had to stop due to the pain in my left forearm/elbow.

i hurt it somehow the other day and its been getting worse and worse. i could hardly grip a dumbbell by the end of my session today.

got 80s up on dumbbell military press though and it was nice.

taking the next 2 days off to make sure my arm doesnt get any worse.*

----------


## Blackster1975

Good luck with your cycle Amorphic, was really unlucky what happened with your first batch of gear, but sounds like you got really good stuff now. I sometimes get the type of pain your talking about in my right elbow/forearm i think mine is tendon related. Hope you get your sleep patterns in check soon bro and good luck for the rest of your cycle and i hope it go's to plan and you hit your goals.

----------


## football2007

> 40+ a week. 215-1045.
> 
> its tough because i have a hard time sleeping and i have just enough time in the morning to make food and hit the gym before my shift starts.


I work 8-5 during the week and the drive is 90mins each way....what I have found is coming straight home and making your meals for the next day helps the most...If you cook em at night you'll have less tendency to **** around after work ends..and all your food will be ready in the morning.. 

Works well..try it. I used to make it before work..and days I would come home and wanna go out and stuff would make it tougher to get up in time the next mornin to make meals..less hassle

----------


## football2007

> *Day 31
> 
> off day today. trying to eat a lot more still. im cooking my food for work when i get home at night to have ready to go for the morning.
> 
> weight is around 218-219
> 
> i have had a few people say that my face looks puffy but overall water retention and bloat is low.*


lol guess i shoulda finished readin the next posts before I posted  :Smilie:

----------


## Amorphic

> Good luck with your cycle Amorphic, was really unlucky what happened with your first batch of gear, but sounds like you got really good stuff now. I sometimes get the type of pain your talking about in my right elbow/forearm i think mine is tendon related. Hope you get your sleep patterns in check soon bro and good luck for the rest of your cycle and i hope it go's to plan and you hit your goals.


thank you sir

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 33

quad shot today. took it easy again to make sure my arm doesnt get any worse. I'll be back at the gym monday for back and bi's.

overall i feel like the size is slowly coming on now, strength is sky high as all the weights i use are all over my personal bests.*

----------


## rodgerj

Can't believe I missed this thread in the beginning! what a ****ing roller coaster read  :LOL:  to bad about that bunk shit in the beginning. You are doing better then I did with my first cycle. Shows what the right preparation does. Subscribed. And a UGL that does human grade? holy shit!! I get great service in Canada but it ain't Human Grade.... Jesus....

----------


## Amorphic

Well, i just checked my weight a moment ago out of curiousity.....

225 pounds  :AaGreen22: 

I am stunned.

the improvement in my diet is massively paying off.

+15 pounds in roughly a month....Cant wait to see how much better this gets.

----------


## 10nispro

Was thinking of getting my next cycle, but now, I am rethinking about doing your cycle because of the strength. 

I still am not convinced because of the sleep issue. Any other issues? shoot me a pm.

----------


## Amorphic

> Was thinking of getting my next cycle, but now, I am rethinking about doing your cycle because of the strength. 
> 
> I still am not convinced because of the sleep issue. Any other issues? shoot me a pm.


the only issue ive had for negative sides has been the insomnia.

i have a touch of acne on my biceps but thats it, besides the usual mild bacne.

i havent tried getting ambien yet but im assuming if you had it you wouldnt have any issues with this cycle at all.

i'd definetly recommend you run it and see.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 34

Off day again today, still trying my hardest to eat as much as i can while keeping the macros in check.

Arm pain is still very bad, im a little worried. Ibuprofen is keeping it from really hurting though.

Back and Bis tomorrow, hopefully no tendon or ligament problems are the causal factor for my joint pain.*

----------


## Schuldiner

Things sounds better this time.
Keep it up! Good luck

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 35

Good day at the gym today. Worked back and bi's but took it somewhat easy on my biceps as i dont want to irritate the possible injury.

Weight is a touch over 220.*

----------


## 10nispro

Hey bro, sounds like you have tendinitis, similar to tennis elbow, but more related to over use syndrome. Or you could look at the fact your tendons are not quite keeping up with the growth in strength. 

R.I.C.E. Rest Ice Compression Elevation

----------


## Amorphic

> Hey bro, sounds like you have tendinitis, similar to tennis elbow, but more related to over use syndrome. Or you could look at the fact your tendons are not quite keeping up with the growth in strength. 
> 
> R.I.C.E. Rest Ice Compression Elevation


yeah i need to be careful from here on out, the last thing i need is an injury hindering my gains.

----------


## T_Own

sounds like a good second time around. pretty good gains even if they started a little slowly. 

make sure take care of that arm, RICE is the way to go, nice and simple stuff. ibuprofen can't hurt either, a 1-3 doses of 400mgs ed helps a lot, not just for pain but as an anti-inflammatory. don't worry about taking too much (~1000mgs ed max)

----------


## Amorphic

> sounds like a good second time around. pretty good gains even if they started a little slowly. 
> 
> make sure take care of that arm, RICE is the way to go, nice and simple stuff. ibuprofen can't hurt either, a 1-3 doses of 400mgs ed helps a lot, not just for pain but as an anti-inflammatory. don't worry about taking too much (~1000mgs ed max)


yep i made the mistake of not taking ibuprofen today before my chest workout and i am in absolutely excrutiating pain right now  :Frown:

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 36

Worked chest and traps today.

Definitely the fullest i have ever seen my chest ever. Strength is still higher than ive ever felt before. 

I had to cut my workout a few sets short due to the pain in my left arm. Grip got weak again and a deep depp pain from my shoulder all the way down to my fingers hit me hard.

Ibuprofin is helping as well as blasting my arm in the shower with the cold water on.

My shoulders also seem to be responding very well, they look extremely full and pumped whenever im at the gym.*

----------


## doolo

Maybe check out some physio stretches and exercises for that shoulder/arm, try to get it in check before your forced to take time off. Icing till its numb after workouts would be good too.

----------


## T_Own

yeah, ice is your best friend with an injury like that. they say the first 72 hours is the most important, as thats when the majority of the swelling/disruption continues. after that, it won't do as much to heal, but still alleviates the pain and discomfort very well. but assuming you continue to work the area, you might be reaggravating it all the time, so ice could actually still be very effective.

i don't know how familiar you are with little injuries like this, but from 14 years of year-round sports, you learn some stuff. if you can handle it, an ice bath would be the best after a workout, not your whole body, but the area that hurts (the arm), then going 20 minutes ice, 20 minutes off for a while. usually i give up after an hour..

ibuprofen helps a lot before working out, as it will thin your blood and lower the swelling in the area (if any)

----------


## ironaddict69

Interesting man, My whole reason I started deca as an HRT addition was because my left elbow was so bad, I couldn't even squat, or lateral raise the 15 lb dumbbells it hurt so badly. Now on only 100 mg a week, it is gone. I am wondering if we have the same thing or not...Good luck, I would have been ****ed if mine didnt get fixed so easily from just a needle.

----------


## Amorphic

> Interesting man, My whole reason I started deca as an HRT addition was because my left elbow was so bad, I couldn't even squat, or lateral raise the 15 lb dumbbells it hurt so badly. Now on only 100 mg a week, it is gone. I am wondering if we have the same thing or not...Good luck, I would have been ****ed if mine didnt get fixed so easily from just a needle.


i had a shoulder injury prior to starting my cycle and when i started the pain went away. i couldnt do dumbbell military press at all because it hurt so bad but now i can do 80s on each arm comfortably.

my left arm has always had issues in the tendons on the inside of my elbow into my forearm. my left bi is much weaker than my right and i always had a minor pain doing curls and whatnot but that went away as well.

the new pain is much more of a tendon pain im thinking and maybe even a slight tear, so its not something the npp can magically make disappear.

but yeah, nandrolone is nice on the joints for sure.

----------


## Amorphic

oh and ironaddict, i hope you've heard the new slipknot song 'all hope is gone,' dammmnnn man its so good.

new album in august!

----------


## ironaddict69

Damn I am sorry to hear about that, but congrats on all the other shit going away. And yes, all hope is gone kicks ass. Not quite their original style for my taste, but the other songs on the albumI know will be disgusting! Cant wait to see them this summer.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 37

off day today. legs and traps tomorrow. arm was hurting at work so im trying to be careful and am taking ibuprofin throughout the day to keep the pain down.

i feel thick as hell overall, its pretty nice.*

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 38

legs and traps today. went well. still eating like mad and trying to pack on the mass.*

----------


## RANA

Keep it up Amorphic!!!

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 39

Off day today and all the way until monday. i need to let my arm rest and aggrivating an injury will only make things worse.

weight is 220

it is getting ridiculously hard to cook enough food in a day to manage enough calories to get any heavier.

im really really going to up my intake and hope for another 10 pounds by the cycle end.*

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 40

off from the gym again.

honestly im growing tired of this cycle.

zero testicular atrophy yet again, zero change in sex drive both in increase and decrease.

no 'on' feeling.

strength increase yes, but considering my diet right now is absolutely massive i wouldnt be suprised if the 10 pounds ive gained as been purely diet and training related.

i have a bit of acne but other than that and insomnia things feel the same.

im going to get my blood levels checked and i'll post the verdict when i can.

meh.*

----------


## rodgerj

Do you notice any bloating at all? I only did when I saw a photo of my face. I did not do any before and after pic really except for my back. I am glad I did that as I could not see the progress as well any other way. It was a monstrous difference.

On the food side of things.... you think you have it bad? I am a veggie so my shit was limited as fcuk. The thing that I could not stand is the daily injects. I feel for you there man..... Put a bunch of quinoa with or between your meals. That shit is good clean food. Pound for pound as much protein as meat.

----------


## Amorphic

> Do you notice any bloating at all? I only did when I saw a photo of my face. I did not do any before and after pic really except for my back. I am glad I did that as I could not see the progress as well any other way. It was a monstrous difference.
> 
> On the food side of things.... you think you have it bad? I am a veggie so my shit was limited as fcuk. The thing that I could not stand is the daily injects. I feel for you there man..... Put a bunch of quinoa with or between your meals. That shit is good clean food. Pound for pound as much protein as meat.


i dont know whats with me.

i just feel kind of miserable lately. it might have to do with working a ton and my shoulder/arm injury as well as the horrible insomnia i am dealing with.

bloat is minimal. i can feel my stomach bloat up after a heavy meal and ive been told my face is puffier.

i just need to shake off this kind of depressed mood i've been in lately and stay focused.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 41

Nothing to report today. Shoulders and triceps tomorrow. the pain in my arm is feeling somewhat better since i havent been stressing it. we'll see how things go tomorrow*

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 42

Hit up the gym today and did shoulders and triceps. the three days off did wonders for recovery as i felt super strong and pounded out some very good sets.

front raises are the only thing that seemed to give me some discomfort, heavy dumbbell military press with 80's i hammered out for 8 7 7 and then i dropped down and finished with light weight high reps to get a nice pump.

weight is 221.

hopefully soon i will be stocking up on some human grade stuff in preparation for the next cycle.*

----------


## rodgerj

> *
> 
> hopefully soon i will be stocking up on some human grade stuff in preparation for the next cycle.*


You lucky mofo!

----------


## ironaddict69

I will be interested to see the lab results as well. 

On a side note, insomnia alone has shown to support depression by lowering our neurotransmitter levels.

----------


## Amorphic

> I will be interested to see the lab results as well. 
> 
> *On a side note, insomnia alone has shown to support depression by lowering our neurotransmitter levels*.


yeah and i still have insomnia like a bitch. ugh.

----------


## rodgerj

> yeah and i still have insomnia like a bitch. ugh.


If medical aids are not helping out you might want to try binaural beats or a light and sound machine. The right program will change your brain frequency to theta/delta.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 43

Off day today since its Canada day and everything is closed. back and biceps tomorrow.

sleeping is still very very difficult but i keep getting lots of comments on my appearance and how large im getting.*

----------


## 200byjune

i wanna see what your lab results are like

----------


## ironaddict69

> If medical aids are not helping out you might want to try binaural beats or a light and sound machine. The right program will change your brain frequency to theta/delta.



That is the best advice I have seen on here yet. I used to use meditation tapes, but I just used them to get to sleep! Your doin fine sitting there then all of a sudden BOOM your out.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 44

back and biceps went well. its so damn hot outside that i was practically sweating to death inside the gym but i managed to hammer out some solid weight. arm pump was ridiculous, very full and hard.*

----------


## 10nispro

You really have me thinking against the npp cycle I was wanting to do, with all the insomia you are having.

----------


## pump.joe

Hang in there, guy. You taking anything else which the insomnia could be attributable to (e.g., Adderall)?

----------


## Amorphic

> Hang in there, guy. You taking anything else which the insomnia could be attributable to (e.g., Adderall)?


nope, no prescription meds.

i still need to get some ambien. the heat here isnt helping the sleep situation either

----------


## QBERT

Bro trust me. I have sleeping disorders due to my job. I don't take it every night, just when I have trouble falling asleep. Ambien CR is the way to go. Don't waste your time on regular ambien. It is better in imho.

----------


## thetank

> nope, no prescription meds.
> 
> i still need to get some ambien. the heat here isnt helping the sleep situation either


no AC? goddamn man, i would ****in LOSE it. i would take air conditioning over the internet. or cable, or ****in anything. seriously, i couldnt live without it.

----------


## T_Own

for real haha, i hate not having the ac on.. you could look into getting a window mounted one just for your bedroom. they aren't too expensive

----------


## ironaddict69

> *DAY 44
> 
> back and biceps went well. its so damn hot outside that i was practically sweating to death inside the gym but i managed to hammer out some solid weight. arm pump was ridiculous, very full and hard.*


I doubt highly that your gear is fake then, noticing huge pumps, would not be a placebo effect.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 45

stocked up on a ton of chicken breasts so i can keep my heavy diet up.

off day today. talk about lethargy! incredibly tired all day, very low on energy and very tired overall.

chest.traps tomorrow.*

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 46

Energy is still really down. fell asleep at 7am last night and had to get up at 10am.

worked chest and traps today and struggled at bit.*

----------


## ironaddict69

> *DAY 46
> 
> Energy is still really down. fell asleep at 7am last night and had to get up at 10am.
> 
> worked chest and traps today and struggled at bit.*


I am assuming this is now becoming normal to you, But I want to highlight the fact that you only got 3 hours of sleep. Even with double that, you are lacking. triple that is what we want. I really want to help you, because even though you are getting AMAZING results so far, imagine what you could do if you would get sufficient amounts of sleep every night. Talk about results. Lets bite the bullet here and see a Dr. about the Ambien/whatever med he recommends.

----------


## pump.joe

^^ +1

You need your sleep, bud. Obviously you want maximum results, which requires adequate rest, and regardless I'm sure it is no fun going through your day on just a few hours of sleep.  :2tired:

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 47

I had a busy day today and only managed to make it to the gym half an hour before it closed so i managed to do a half leg workout. Looking in the mirror today i can see a definite improvement in my physique. shoulders look much more full as well as my chest and arms especially.

on monday i am calling the doc to book an appt asap to get this sleeping problem under control.*

----------


## Amorphic

*Day 48

Off day today. Slept like shit again but my energy was up today and i felt pretty good overall. shoulders and traps tomorrow as well as calling the doctor to get some ambien.*

----------


## 10nispro

Hey bro, sorry to hear you are having the sleep deprivetion. You are lucky to even make it to the gym, alive. Heck, ask a friend for some ambien to see how it does. Also, take a full day off and just sleep. If you need anything, pm me.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 49

Couldnt make it to the gym as i planned to today since a few things came up. i will make sure to get in there tomorrow.

my legs still feel pumped from my leg workout a couple days ago. i will post my weight at the end of this week.*

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 50

Shoulders and tri's was great today. my tri's were getting so pumped on pulldowns that they hurt.

shoulder doesnt seem to be bothering me too much now, a bit of discomfort doing dumbbell raises but thats all.*

----------


## 10nispro

Things are sounding pretty sweet in Canada in Amorphic camp.

Check my log, Bro.

----------


## dedic8ed1

I havn't been up on your thread as much but it seems you finally got some real gear and sleep's your biggest problem.The ambien or another sleep med in moderation should help.My suggestion would be to use the sleep meds every other day,sleep aid addiction is very common.How many weeks do you have left?

----------


## Amorphic

> I havn't been up on your thread as much but it seems you finally got some real gear and sleep's your biggest problem.The ambien or another sleep med in moderation should help.My suggestion would be to use the sleep meds every other day,sleep aid addiction is very common.How many weeks do you have left?


i only have about 20 days left. ive decided to change things around a bit so feel free to comment on this as well as anyone else.

im going to be finished prop and npp in roughly 20something days when my stuff runs out.

my plan at the moment is to make this a multi stage cycle. i will be getting more prop and will be using tren ace for the last part of this cycle.

40 more days addition with 100mgs/ed of tren ace and 100mgs prop/ed.

i will adjust the dosages accordingly if the sides are too hard to handle. I dont have any other negative sides other than bacne and the insomnia so it makes sense to me to get on tren.

my goal for the last leg of the cycle will to roughly maintain the weight im at but change my body composition (decrease bodyfat) to a more acceptable degree to me.

im at 15% bodyfat right now and i have a lot of mass on my frame but the highish bodyfat is getting old to me. (ive been bulking for over a year and a half)

im probably going to get the third degree over this but im going to be doing it and you guys can follow along with me.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 51

off day today. nothing much to report. im changing gyms on friday and going back to the golds gym we have here since my gym is a little shithole that is locally owned and the owner doesnt give a shit about the equipment.

feeling good overall, minus the tiredess* :Wink/Grin:

----------


## bbuff

I've been following this thread from the beginning, I was just wondering if you were gonna be using the same lab for the last part of your cycle.

----------


## Amorphic

> I've been following this thread from the beginning, I was just wondering if you were gonna be using the same lab for the last part of your cycle.


yes i will be.

all cycles afterwards are going to be human grade, minus tren if i keep using it for future cycles.

----------


## Amorphic

also i booked an appointment with the doctor for monday. hopefully i can get some ambien and something to take care of my allergies.

----------


## Amorphic

Forgot my update for yesterday.

*DAY 52

Worked chest and traps. very vascular pumps which is nice considering im not shredded or anything. Strength seems to be about the same.

I have a doc appt on monday so i will hopefully be sleeping well that night. I need to up my diet again as 220 seems to be like a tough point for me to advance over. my goal for the cycle was to hit 230, still some work to do.*

----------


## ironaddict69

Oh the dreaded 225 for me. My eyes have only looked down to see 230 when I was on tren , and another time with ghrp-6 (ate like a horse both times!) Keepup the good work man.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 53

finally took the time to get back to the golds gym we have here instead of the shitbox gym thats a few mins away from my house.

back and biceps were fantastic today. i had access to a lot more equipment that i really like and i looked full and pumped all over. weights also felt great in my hands, very light and i felt stronger overall.*

----------


## pump.joe

^^ +1

I know exactly what you mean. I had a free membership at Gold's for a year... whole different ballgame from my normal gym; so much easier to stay motivated there. Unfortunately, that free membership has expired. If it didn't cost $40/mo more, I would still be going there (even though it is farther away).

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 54

Off day today. still sleeping crappy but that will hopefully be over by monday when i visit the doc.

Still considering lengthening out my cycle a bit but cash is tight since i had some unexpected bills this week. we'll see how things go.*

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 55

off day today and tomorrow since i have to go to the docs. back is still sore from my last workout at the new gym....best workout ive had in a long time.*

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 56

got my sleeping meds today. shoulders and tri's tomorrow. hoping for a good sleep tonight.*

----------


## ironaddict69

How did you get your back sore? I can never really get mine.

----------


## Gears

Hey, glad to see things are going well. Hopefully those sleeping meds will knock you out for a good 8+ hrs, sleep = good.

----------


## Amorphic

> How did you get your back sore? I can never really get mine.


heavy bent over barbell rows. golds here has a really nice hammer strength lat machine that absolutely kills my lats.

----------


## Amorphic

> Hey, glad to see things are going well. Hopefully those sleeping meds will knock you out for a good 8+ hrs, sleep = good.


its going alright.

i know for a fact my stuff im running right now is underdosed, to what degree im not sure.

1400mgs a week is a heavy cycle and i know for a fact i should have a way higher sex drive, a lot more sides and a lot more weight behind me.

nonetheless i'll finish this cycle and have a quality 10-13 pound gain before i run human grade next.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 58

legs are still really sore from leg day. Weight is still hovering at 220 and a touch above at times.

my pants are looser in the waist and i feel like ive lost a bit of bodyfat which is nice.

not too much longer left in this cycle.*

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 60

Chest and traps today. still moving nice heavy weight. Got my sleeping meds a few days ago (zopiclone) but ambien is not available in canada unfortunately.

feeling good overall, not great though. From following along other cycle threads and conversing with others i know the stuff im on is severely underdosed and most of my gains are either mildly enhanced or mostly placebo effect.

nonetheless, i have a new human grade supplier that is the best of the best and i will be stocking up heavy with human grade gear to keep me ready for another 3 cycles.

i have dbol on the way and i am going to include it at 40mgs/ed for the remainder of my cycle to see if i can get that last 10 pounds ive been hoping for. 

pct will be nolva/aromasin . i dont think recovery is going to be an issue at all considering i have hardly if any testicular atrophy at all.

we'll see what happens.*

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 62

Off day today. my waist is leaning out considerably now that my diet is spot on. weight is around 222. i should have dbol by wednesday and will run it for 40mgs ed for 25 days.

Feeling alright, sleeping decently and overall look decent.*

----------


## InsaneInTheMembrane

Hey morph,

I don't usually read logs but I've just read this one from top to bottom and have to say that is a fantastic thread/journey you have going. I started my NPP/Pro (50mg ED) yday and was very happy to see this log... it is great because it covers so many aspects of cycling and the hurdles too: dealing with fake/underdosed gear, the importance of diet, persistence, injury/rehab, dealing with side effects and sometimes how you gotta listen to your body and skip a workout... you have displayed tremendous resilience and maturity.... I will keep coming to check back here often

I've done many cycles but this is the first time using NPP. On the whole, what would you say abt this compound? If you could, would you have added any compound to the cycle to give it more of a kick? Should I even bother with NPP?? 

cheers

----------


## Amorphic

> Hey morph,
> 
> I don't usually read logs but I've just read this one from top to bottom and have to say that is a fantastic thread/journey you have going. I started my NPP/Pro (50mg ED) yday and was very happy to see this log... it is great because it covers so many aspects of cycling and the hurdles too: dealing with fake/underdosed gear, the importance of diet, persistence, injury/rehab, dealing with side effects and sometimes how you gotta listen to your body and skip a workout... you have displayed tremendous resilience and maturity.... I will keep coming to check back here often
> 
> I've done many cycles but this is the first time using NPP. On the whole, what would you say abt this compound? If you could, would you have added any compound to the cycle to give it more of a kick? Should I even bother with NPP?? 
> 
> cheers


 thanks for the post bro.

you're right about a lot of the things you mention.

for any noobs reading this i cant stress enough how important diet is. it will literally make or break your cycle and gains.

ive learned a lot so far, mostly that even on aas, gains are not as easy as they seem to the uneducated individual.

i know guys that have used less prop/npp than i have and have had better gains than me, so i have my suspicions about underdosing right now. i will say that npp is a good compound though. i love how my joints feel (unless im injured) and my strength is very nice, although not as great as i thought it would have been.

i'll keep things updated when i get my dbol to see how it compares to injectables as ive never run an oral before.

----------


## InsaneInTheMembrane

^^^ I'll def keep u posted on my NPP results!!

cheers

----------


## 10nispro

You are having some bad luck with either bad or underdosed gear....da** that sucks. It does sound like you are getting the hang of things, right down to sleep. You can definately tag this one up for a journey in life. I will say also, even though I know you are a smart guy, you have learned and accomplished lots and I applaud you for that. I will keep checking in.

----------


## pump.joe

Glad to hear you are getting some sleep now. Keep us posted.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 64

Got my dbol today, will be running 40mgs ed for 25 days.

Chest and traps today. 110s on dumbbell flat bench for 4 sets feeling very nice.

weight is down to 216-219 but im leaning out. my diet is very dialed right now and although the weight loss is 'discouraging' from a scale perspective, the overall composition of my body is more pleasing.

will keep you guys posted on how the dbol treats me. i wanted to hit 230 this cycle but we'll see.*

----------


## Gears

D-bol and milk; the secret to getting jacked.

----------


## Amorphic

> D-bol and milk; the secret to getting jacked.


im hoping the dbol is legit, ive always wanted to see what 'dbol pump' really feels like.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 66

amazing tri and shoulder workout. intense pumps and very solid weights. i felt very agressive all day today too, not angry but very full of energy and just overall enthusiastic, but definitely in an 'agressive' way.

looking forward to more of this from the dbol.*

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 68

Dbol is great. I feel so energetic and aggressive, its fantastic. weight is up above 220 again and i feel pumped and strong. back and bi's on monday, looking forward to it.

my bodyfat is definitely lower as well. i can see my abs when i flex again (albeit under bodyfat) but im guessing bodyfat is down to around 13% or a touch more.*

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 71

Dbol pumps are outrageous. My lower back gets painfully pumped no matter what exercises i seem to do.

back and bi's today, felt nice, biceps are rock solid and pumped.*

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 72

Nothing to report today, still feel pumped all the time.

took the day off from the gym since my sleeping pills arent working too well anymore and im totally exhausted. chest and traps tomorrow.*

----------


## dd0316

read this top to bottom and i am very very uplifted and excited

CONGRATS ON FIRSTLY BEING CANADIAN..haha..BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY ABOUT BEING SMART, DOING THE RIGHT THINGS WITH SLEEP DIET, AND WATCHING AND LISTENING TO YOUR BODY. thats probably one of the biggest mistakes is people not listening to their body.

This thread top to bottom is byfar one of the best on steroid .com

Keep it up!

----------


## Reed

I've been following this thread since its beginning amorphic. It really is a awesome thread, congrats on all the progress. You should throw up some pics for everyone when your done

----------


## stpete

Nice log Amorphic. Keep up the good work man.

----------


## Amorphic

thanks for the comments guys, i appreciate it.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 73

chest day yesterday was fantastic, very hard and amazing pumps along with a mild strength increase still.

legs today went well, hamstring pump was totally nuts.

overall i am pleased at the moment. Sleeping has been hard again as i cant sleep without zopiclone and ive only got enough for one night left.

i still cant believe we dont have ambien available in canada, i'll have to be visiting my doc again to see what other options i have for sleep remedy.*

----------


## thetank

> *DAY 73
> 
> chest day yesterday was fantastic, very hard and amazing pumps along with a mild strength increase still.
> 
> legs today went well, hamstring pump was totally nuts.
> 
> overall i am pleased at the moment. Sleeping has been hard again as i cant sleep without zopiclone and ive only got enough for one night left.
> 
> i still cant believe we dont have ambien available in canada, i'll have to be visiting my doc again to see what other options i have for sleep remedy.*


valium. i dont know how tight your doctor is but that shit works.
still checkin this log every day, glad to see you are getting some good results off the dbol , keep it up brotha.
peace
tank

----------


## Amorphic

> valium. i dont know how tight your doctor is but that shit works.
> still checkin this log every day, glad to see you are getting some good results off the dbol , keep it up brotha.
> peace
> tank


thanks tank, always appreciate your comments.

----------


## Amorphic

*DAY 74

Injections are over. I have enough dbol to last me around 15 days or so and i was contemplating running it until i ran out and then go into pct but im not too sure if i want to do that.

most likely i'll be starting pct in 2 or 3 days. nolva/aromasin .

Had a very close call at the gym today doing shouders. i had 80s up for military press and my right arm swung back and i almost popped my shoulder out. luckily i didnt hurt anything and i was able to finish my workout fine. next 2 days off for recovery.*

----------


## football2007

try not to go for a certain weight....but rather a certain look.

If you aim for a weight, you may acquire more bodyfat than you intended..I have learned the hard way..

----------


## TranscriptionFactor

> valium. i dont know how tight your doctor is but that shit works.
> still checkin this log every day, glad to see you are getting some good results off the dbol , keep it up brotha.
> peace
> tank


IMHO Valium or any other benzodiazepine is a poor choice - they are all addictive, one develops tolerance and the withdrawal is absolutely horrendous. I realize you would be planning on using it just short term, but Valium is especially not great choice even as a benzo b/c it has a long half life.

Ambien I like, though some people do some weird sleep walking/sleep eating on it. Ambien's not a Benzo, but it works in a similar way. Also use it only for short periods like not more than a couple of weeks b/c I've seen it also become addictive with withdrawal.

There is a relatively new drug called Rozerem which works specifically on one of the Melatonin receptors, the one which is responsible for sleepiness. (Unlike the OTC Melatonin which hits them all and has more side effects). So its cleaner, non habit forming, non narcotic etc. Anyway, the drug reps giving the dinner I went to were of course making it out to be awesome.

I forgot if you tried Benadryl, that works for me. I would try as much to avoid a prescription med as possible - maybe try Valerian tea. Anyone try Kava kava? I've heard its great.

Apropos of nothing, M.D.'s in the US are too quick to prescribe some stuff for sleep when most of the time people need to change something in their lifestyle and/or diet.

----------


## pump.joe

> Had a very close call at the gym today doing shouders. i had 80s up for military press and my right arm swung back and i almost popped my shoulder out.


I did something similar a few years ago reaching down and behind me to pull up the bar for skullcrushers. Kept me out of the gym for weeks, and to this day it still gives me trouble when I want to do certain movements like pull-ups. Ever since I am much more careful with any delt exercise.

----------


## Amorphic

> try not to go for a certain weight....but rather a certain look.
> 
> If you aim for a weight, you may acquire more bodyfat than you intended..I have learned the hard way..


yeah i have a mental problem with weight, i always want to see the scale go up. ive gotten better but i still like seeing weight gains on the scale.

----------


## Amorphic

*PCT DAY 1

40mgs nolva/25mgs aromasin .

I ran out of sleeping meds and i had the most horrifyingly bad night ever last night. Slept like shit, feel like shit and my shoulder is sore. 

I'm hoping things turn out alright, i already feel anxious being 'off'*

----------


## RANA

My God, I can't believe you're starting PCT. Damn time flew-by.

----------


## Amorphic

> My God, I can't believe you're starting PCT. Damn time flew-by.


it sure did. :Frown:

----------


## Gears

> *PCT DAY 1
> 
> 40mgs nolva/25mgs aromasin .
> 
> I ran out of sleeping meds and i had the most horrifyingly bad night ever last night. Slept like shit, feel like shit and my shoulder is sore. 
> 
> I'm hoping things turn out alright, i already feel anxious being 'off'*


It`s hard to notice something you get used to and you don`t feel what you had untill its taken away. Could be the sleeping pills but meh.

----------


## RANA

So after doing this cycle what would you different? I.E. dosage, freq of injections, length of cycle, etc...

----------


## Amorphic

> So after doing this cycle what would you different? I.E. dosage, freq of injections, length of cycle, etc...


in another week or so im going to summarize all my thoughts about the cycle and pct.

----------


## RANA

> in another week or so im going to summarize all my thoughts about the cycle and pct.


I can't wait, I am contemplating the same cycle in October.

----------


## Amorphic

*PCT DAY 3

Back and bis today. Shoulder feels fine thankfully. Workout was great, managed to curl 60's in each arm for 6 reps comfortably. pumps were still very good today, my forearms felt like they were going to explode.

Slept horribly last night again but i went to bed early and maybe managed to get 5 hours of sleep on and off.

Hopefully i keep feeling the way i did in the gym today.*

----------


## thetank

glad you had a good workout brutha 60's for 6 is pretty damn strong..another couple reps and you'll ruin the 70's i gaurentee.
oh and man...for the love of christ. benadryl, is ****in NUTS. i took 2 yesterday, and was literally stumbling. that shit knocks you on your ass, bigtime. seriously, give it a shot, if that shit doesnt knock out out you are some kind of superhuman.

----------


## Amorphic

*PCT DAY 4

Slept better last night since i took some nyquil. i was pretty groggy upon waking though. my legs feel so tight that when i flex i almost get charlie horses. i dont know why that is but it feels good.

weight is still 222.*

----------


## passthetest

How about throwing some lift numbers out there for us? Before/during/post cycle

----------


## Amorphic

*PCT DAY 5

wow, talk about an energy decrease, i skipped the gym today just to sleep as long as i possibly could since sleeping is starting to get easier.

i dont feel pumped throughout the day anymore and my motivation feels a little shot but i have the next 2 days off work and i'll make sure to hit the weights hard then.*

----------


## Reed

Just keep on truckin brother. Always remember that sometimes you gotta take a step back to take two steps forward.

----------


## Amorphic

*PCT DAY 6

Wow, goodbye strength.

Worked chest today. flat bench dumbbell 120sx4 110x6 100x7

pumps are gone compared to when i was on cycle, it was VERY hard to keep the intensity up.

weight is still hovering at 220-222. i miss being on cycle already.*

----------


## Amorphic

*PCT DAY 7

Still feeling pretty tired/lethargic compared to when i was on cycle. Didnt sleep too well last night either.

Acne has increased a bit, pretty painful big ones as well. Leg day later today.*

----------


## Amorphic

im starting to feel the pct blues i think. Ive been kind of down the last few days emotionally and its kind of bothering me.

I guess i just have to keep my head up and keep pushing through it all but i feel kind of disconnected from everyone and a bit lonely. blehh

----------


## Amorphic

*PCT DAY 8

Feeling alright today, arms feel looser in my shirt and that 'on' feeling is definitely gone. Zero erectile problems so far but my desire for sex is definitely gone.*

----------


## T_Own

very good log. the final review should be interesting too

----------


## Amorphic

*PCT DAY 9

Feeling a little less lethargic and more energetic overall. appetite is down but im still eating as much as i possibly can to keep my strength up.

shoulders and tri's tomorrow.

i took some pictures and compared them to various stages of my natural training and i actually burst out laughing at a couple of them. Diet has made such a huge difference for me.*

----------


## thetank

f'n A...seeing yourself every day makes your progress alot more subtle..but a direct compairison side by side can be shocking..post some pics brutha!!!

----------


## stpete

Good to hear you're feeling better man. Looking forward to some pics myself.

----------


## Amorphic

*PCT DAY 10

Feeling more like normal now. worked shoulders and tri's and my strength doesnt seem to be down much.

Pics will come soon when i shave and do some posing.

i wont keep the pics up long since my physique is constantly changing and for safety purposes but i'll throw some up soon.*

----------


## Amorphic

*PCT DAY 11

Feeling pretty much normal now and holding all the weight ive gained so far. skipped the gym today and slept, needed the rest.

Pictures soon enough with my cycle recap.*

----------


## Amorphic

*PCT DAY 12

Back and bi's today. felt alright, strength still a bit down from cycle levels but pumps were decent. Overall i feel pretty much normal. sex drive is reduced but no problems getting it up or performing.*

----------


## Gears

Glad to hear its not taking forever for you to recover bro. Do you have anything planned for your next cycle yet?

----------


## Amorphic

> Glad to hear its not taking forever for you to recover bro. Do you have anything planned for your next cycle yet?


prop/tren 100mgs/ed of each. winstrol oral possibly as well. its going to be a heavy cutting cycle, its time i dropped down to 10% or below.

cycle will be starting on sept 1. (yeah i know, way way early but hey, im going to give it a shot.)

----------


## SMCengineer

Amorphic. you gotta give it at least two months off man. It's a really bad habit to start jumping from cycle to cycle no matter how underdosed your stuff may have been.

----------


## Amorphic

> Amorphic. you gotta give it at least two months off man. It's a really bad habit to start jumping from cycle to cycle no matter how underdosed your stuff may have been.


yeah i know bro. after this next one i wont be cycling till next may. we'll see what happens though, nothings set in stone yet.

----------


## SMCengineer

Just have patience. It'll go faster than you think. Plus, you should save the cutting cycle until the summer anyway. I cut last winter and it was the worst thing I ever did. The only person who could see my progress was my girlfriend. Everyone else just thought I was getting thinner cause my clothes fit a little looser, which I hated. Come the summer time I was bulking again and I was above 12% BF. So all that work was for nothing.

----------


## Amorphic

> Just have patience. It'll go faster than you think. Plus, you should save the cutting cycle until the summer anyway. I cut last winter and it was the worst thing I ever did. The only person who could see my progress was my girlfriend. Everyone else just thought I was getting thinner cause my clothes fit a little looser, which I hated. Come the summer time I was bulking again and I was above 12% BF. So all that work was for nothing.


thanks for the imput, apreciated as always.

----------


## RANA

> prop/tren 100mgs/ed of each. winstrol oral possibly as well. its going to be a heavy cutting cycle, its time i dropped down to 10% or below.
> 
> cycle will be starting on sept 1. *(yeah i know, way way early but hey, im going to give it a shot.*)


Come on, you know better than everyone else that you should wait. IF some other person wrote this you, Big, blome and others would say WTF and take some time off. Plus winter is right around the corner and you guys will have atleast 50 ft of snow.

----------


## Amorphic

*PCT DAY 13

Damn acne is outrageous. ugh. day off today as im training 1 on, one off to allow for good recovery.*

----------


## T_Own

> Come on, you know better than everyone else that you should wait. IF some other person wrote this you, Big, blome and others would say WTF and take some time off. Plus winter is right around the corner and you guys will have atleast 50 ft of snow.


usually thats cause people don't know what they're getting into. if he feels confident going forward with it, its his choice. i'm sure he's well informed on everything and knows the risks and benefits of it

----------


## RANA

> usually thats cause people don't know what they're getting into. if he feels confident going forward with it, its his choice. i'm sure he's well informed on everything and knows the risks and benefits of it


Trust me I know he is well informed, but he is French-Canadian and I worry about him.

----------


## T_Own

lol
nuff said

----------


## Amorphic

> Trust me I know he is well informed, but he is French-Canadian and I worry about him.


lol. oh please.

----------


## Amorphic

*PCT DAY 14

Chest and traps today. weights are still down and im struggling to keep the intensity up. sweating a lot more at the gym and feeling a lot more exausted after workouts but im pushing through.

Mood has been really crappy the past few days, arguing with my ex and just feeling like an emotional wreck overall.*

----------


## Amorphic

*PCT DAY 16

I keep getting headaches through the day as well as charlie horses in my legs at night. Not sure why but its annoying. Overall i feel pretty tired and not as motivated to lift when im at the gym.

Vision has been blurry a couple times at work, nolva related im assuming. Weight is around 215-218*

----------


## Gears

Keep at it man, it`ll all be good when you hit normal test levels again.

----------


## Amorphic

> Keep at it man, it`ll all be good when you hit normal test levels again.


hoping so. the drained feeling is tough to overcome.

----------


## thetank

> *PCT DAY 16
> 
> I keep getting headaches through the day as well as charlie horses in my legs at night. Not sure why but its annoying. Overall i feel pretty tired and not as motivated to lift when im at the gym.
> 
> Vision has been blurry a couple times at work, nolva related im assuming. Weight is around 215-218*


are you hydrated enough? i know if i dont drink enough water over a few days i get charlie horses like mad throughout the night. or one night of drunkeness, its over..im waking up with my calf in a knot.
anyway hang in there man..im sure when everything levels out you'll be back on track 
peace
tank

----------


## Amorphic

*PCT DAY 17. off day today. Gym tomorrow for shoulders/tris.*

----------


## TranscriptionFactor

I thought blurry vision was a side effect of Clomid, not Nolva....?

Agree, up the hydration..that could be a cause of fatigue, dizziness, even blurriness.

----------


## Amorphic

> I thought blurry vision was a side effect of Clomid, not Nolva....?
> 
> Agree, up the hydration..that could be a cause of fatigue, dizziness, even blurriness.


nolva is toxic to your eyes.

----------


## Amorphic

Tamoxifen and Your Eyes

by Dana Isherwood


The insert that comes with tamoxifen states under the heading of WARNINGS "visual disturbance including corneal changes, cataracts and retinopathy have been reported in patients receiving NOLVADEX " (tamoxifen citrate). Although information is provided under the heading of ADVERSE REACTIONS, ocular toxicity is not listed. This raises three very important questions:

1. Are visual disturbances a rare event?
2. Do they occur at low doses (i.e., 20 mg/day)? and
3. If they occur, are they reversible?

During 1978 to 1990, only six publications; and eight patients with ocular toxicity were reported in the English language literature, thus suggesting that this adverse side effect is either a rare event or underreported. That it can occur at low doses is documented. In Pavlidis et al [Cancer, Vol. 69, No. 12, pp. 2961-2964 (1993)], researchers reported that out of 63 patients receiving 20 mg/day for 5 to 51 months, 4 patients (6%) developed decreased visual acuity, macular edema, and retinal opacities. Discontinuation of the drug resulted in a reversal of the decreased visual acuity and macular edema, but the retinal opacities remained.

At the American Association for Cancer Research annual meeting in San Francisco April 10-13, 1994, researchers from the University Hospital in Zurich, Switzerland, reported that not only does ocular toxicity occur at Low doses, but that the reversibility of visual symptoms is dependent on total cumulative dose. Twenty patients with visual symptoms; caused by tamoxifen were studied. Results showed that in 85% of patients deterioration of vision was the first symptom. Corneal, retinal and optic nerve abnormalities were reported in 60% of patients on less than 10 grams in total, 20% of patients on less than 100 grams in total, and in none of the patients taking more than 100 grams in total. At 20 mg/day, this equates to taking tamoxifen for somewhere between 1.4 years (10 g) to 13.7 years (100 g).

Dr. Piotr Szczesny who reported these results in San Francisco also mentioned that he has found that, since most breast cancer patients are women over 50, many doctors who are not well versed in this potentially devastating side effect will assume that the lack of visual acuity reported by their patients are the result of aging eyes rather than tamoxifen. These women will continue to take tamoxifen, thus increasing their chance of permanent injury.

BOTTOM LINE: Ocular toxicity from tamoxifen is a rare side effect with a potential for permanent damage to the eyes if not recognized early. If you are on tamoxifen, have your eyes examined annually. If you have any problems at all with your vision, see an ophthalmologist as soon as possible.

----------


## TranscriptionFactor

Hmmm....That is correct. I did a quick review of the literature.
It can be oculotoxic but has a relatively rare incidence

*Tamoxifen (Nolvadex)*
Dose-dependent ocular side-effects include corneal opacities (whorl-like subepithelial calcium map-dot changes), and retinal or macular yellow or white refractile opacities, edema, degeneration, pigmentary changes and hemorrhages.

*Retinal and corneal findings were more common at dosages of 180 mg/day. The standard dosage is now 20 mg/day or less, and the ocular side-effect incidence levels are around 1 to 2%.*

Ocular side-effects seem to take two forms, one acute and the other chronic. The acute form is not well defined and usually occurs within a few weeks after therapy is instituted. Symptoms include vision loss, retinal edema, retinal hemorrhage, and optic disc swelling. It is thought to result from tamoxifen estrogenic activity, which may cause venous thromboembolism.

*Typical tamoxifen retinopathy most commonly occurs after more than one year of therapy when a total of more than 100 grams of the drug have been taken.* The retinopathy can include cystoid macular edema, punctuate macular retinal pigment epithelial changes, parafoveal hemorrhages, and peripheral RPE changes. Refractile bodies are located in the inner retina histologically may be the products of axonal degeneration. These lesions do not appear to regress if the drug is discontinued.

Visual acuity loss in the chronic side-effect form is often progressive, dose dependent and irreversible unless cystoid macular edema or hemorrhages are the cause of vision loss. Corneal deposits are seldom clinically significant and are usually reversible.

When retinal crystals are present, the patient should be evaluated every three months and should see their oncologist on a regular basis. Significant color vision loss may provide valid grounds to consider discontinuing the drug. If the medication is stopped for 3 months and color vision returns to normal, Tamoxifen may be re-started. If there is no rebound or if the visual side-effects continue to progress, a substitute for Tamoxifen may need to be considered.

------
So what do I think of this? If vision problems progress by all means stop Nolva and see and Optho doc, however all things considered it is very unlikely to cause ocular toxicity at a dose of 20-40mg/d for several weeks.

TF
(MD)

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## Amorphic

*PCT DAY 18

back and bi's today. getting the motivation to get to the gym under my busy shedule is the shits but when i make it there i still feel pretty strong and get a nice pump.

i still feel emotional and a little off 100% but overall things are improving.*

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## wukillabee

> *PCT DAY 18
> 
> back and bi's today. getting the motivation to get to the gym under my busy shedule is the shits but when i make it there i still feel pretty strong and get a nice pump.
> 
> i still feel emotional and a little off 100% but overall things are improving.*


GLad to hear ur comin off pretty good to a rocky first cycle. I plan on doing this cycle at prop/npp 75/75 for 8-9 weeks as my second cycle starting january. Gonna shot 75/75mg of each ed of course. Cant wait to see ur final conclusion on the cycle and what u would do different or change if doing this cycle again. Would help me out a lot too. Thanks for doin a detailed log on this bro, been reading it all.

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## Amorphic

*PCT DAY 19

Back and bis today, yesterday should have said shoulders and tri's so that was a typo on my part.

my strength is seeming to stay consistent now but the scale says 210, which means ive lost most of my cycle weight. Nicely enough though my waist is thinner than when i started and i have a more mature muscularity now. Hopefully i can eat a bunch more and make sure i get some of that weight back*

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## Amorphic

*PCT DAY 20 AND OVERALL CYCLE RECAP.

So i guess now is a good time to give my final thoughts on my experiences in my first cycle and the things ive learned along the way.

1. I highly doubt I will bother using any long estered compounds for a few reasons. First being that the quick kick in time of short acting esters is much more of a benefit in terms of reducing dead cycle time and getting the most out of the time you're on.

Pct starting 2 days after your last shot is also a huge factor in this. I personally dont like the idea of using long estered compounds for the fact that you have to wait 2+ weeks before starting pct. I also dont like the idea of having heavy suppressive 19nor steroids in my body suppressing my hormones for longer than they need to.

2. ED injections were not a problem for me. I have a pretty hectic life at the moment and i still found the time to get my injections done slowly and safely. The mild discomfort of using high concentrated short esters did not bother me much as its a small price to pay for the overall benefits.

3. DIET IS ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL. I was one of those people that thought their diet was totally in check and it wasnt until i started really eating cleanly and heavily that i put on quality size and dropped my waistline down. Even now i dont eat enough but i've learned a lot from this and will continue to focus on my diet.

4. Nandrolone really does make your joints feel great. I had a nagging shoulder injury before i started cycle and i honestly feel zero discomfort even on heavy days now. Since ive been into pct ive noticed ive had a bit of pain in my left knee which i never had during cycle.

5. i did not experience any negative libido issues on cycle. no problems with erections etc although i did not feel like i wanted sex all the time.

6. when i run another heavy cycle i plan on adding hcg to the mix. my boys still dont seem to be back up and running fully and i believe hcg might have helped me keep more of my gains and recover better. i will try to include it in all future cycles.

7. AAD induced insomnia was horrifying for me and still continues during post cycle. I definetly recommend some type of sleep aid, at the very least some melatonin.

8. Acne was moderate. First starting on my back (very small zits) and eventually to my shoulders and a bit down my biceps. Post cycle the acne got worse but as of recently has been getting better.
Any other questions you guys have, feel free to ask. i wont be updating this log as frequently anymore as things have pretty much wrapped up.

9. Body hair growth was very noticable. Im naturally hairy but this cycle definitely made things thicker. my stomach and back were like a black carpet when i didnt shave for 4 days or so. Much more hair growth on my shoulders, triceps and chest.
Thanks to everyone that followed me on this crazy journey. there will be more to come when i start my next cycle which will be prop/tren/winstrol.*

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## RANA

Damn nice write-up!!!
So what was your diet like that helped you make those gains?

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## Amorphic

> Damn nice write-up!!!
> So what was your diet like that helped you make those gains?


i ate a lot when i was bulking before my cycle but it wasnt as clean as it could be.

basically when i shaped up my diet i did what i was supposed to. same meals every day, same time every day.

diet was somewhat along these lines.

breakfast - 250mls egg whites with a touch of cheddar cheese. 2 pieces of whoe grain toast and some peanut butter.

Workout - PWO shake.

meal 2, 3, 4, - 1 large chicken breast (teriaki or garlic herb seasoned), 1 large serving of brown or wild rice. Muffin, orange juice or water

Home after work - protein shake, some leftovers in the fridge (sometimes being hamburger patties from the day before or bbq chicken.

I would shake things up now and then with steak and soemtimes throw in a garden or caesar salad.

Cheating was somewhat minimal, the occational chocolate bar at work and maybe some ice cream at night.

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## RANA

> i ate a lot when i was bulking before my cycle but it wasnt as clean as it could be.
> 
> basically when i shaped up my diet i did what i was supposed to. same meals every day, same time every day.
> 
> diet was somewhat along these lines.
> 
> breakfast - 250mls egg whites with a touch of cheddar cheese. 2 pieces of whoe grain toast and some peanut butter.
> 
> Workout - PWO shake.
> ...


Nice, I was about the same minus the muffin and OJ

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## wukillabee

> *PCT DAY 20 AND OVERALL CYCLE RECAP.
> 
> So i guess now is a good time to give my final thoughts on my experiences in my first cycle and the things ive learned along the way.
> 
> 1. I highly doubt I will bother using any long estered compounds for a few reasons. First being that the quick kick in time of short acting esters is much more of a benefit in terms of reducing dead cycle time and getting the most out of the time you're on.
> 
> Pct starting 2 days after your last shot is also a huge factor in this. I personally dont like the idea of using long estered compounds for the fact that you have to wait 2+ weeks before starting pct. I also dont like the idea of having heavy suppressive 19nor steroids in my body suppressing my hormones for longer than they need to.
> 
> 2. ED injections were not a problem for me. I have a pretty hectic life at the moment and i still found the time to get my injections done slowly and safely. The mild discomfort of using high concentrated short esters did not bother me much as its a small price to pay for the overall benefits.
> ...



Could we also get a recap on your stats and maybe before and after pics to compare? Like starting weight and ending weight, starting waistline and ending waistline (since you said your waistline slimmed up), etc. Thanks bro! Looking forward to doing this same cycle in January.

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## Amorphic

> Could we also get a recap on your stats and maybe before and after pics to compare? Like starting weight and ending weight, starting waistline and ending waistline (since you said your waistline slimmed up), etc. Thanks bro! Looking forward to doing this same cycle in January.


i need to get someone to do my measurements for me since i dont think i can get accurate ones myself. I'll try to get someone to do them for me tonight or tomorrow if possible.

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## RANA

> i need to get someone to do my measurements for me since i dont think i can get accurate ones myself. I'll try to get someone to do them for me tonight or tomorrow if possible.


Ask DSM

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## wukillabee

> i need to get someone to do my measurements for me since i dont think i can get accurate ones myself. I'll try to get someone to do them for me tonight or tomorrow if possible.


Thats cool, what about some before and after pics and how much weight you gained from cycle? Thanks!

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## Amorphic

pictures removed.

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## Amorphic

pictures removed

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## Amorphic

*PCT DAY 21

Chest/traps today. overall feeling weaker than cycle levels but maintaining the same strength now. pumps are still decent and i feel alright. motivation still not 100% but im keeping my head up*

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## RANA

> Post cycle. any idea on bf? im assuming like 13-14%?


Pics look good, I only have one suggestion "tan" J/K seriously your bf% is hard to tell but it could range from 11-13% but overall you look good.

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## Amorphic

> Pics look good, I only have one suggestion "tan" J/K seriously your bf% is hard to tell but it could range from 11-13% but overall you look good.


yeah unfortunately working all day inside i missed out on the sun this summer :Frown: 

i dunno, i think the bodyfat is acceptable considering i do ZERO cardio while bulking.

when i start cutting my physique should be where i want it to be.

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## RANA

> yeah unfortunately working all day inside i missed out on the sun this summer
> 
> i dunno, i think the bodyfat is acceptable considering i do ZERO cardio while bulking.
> 
> when i start cutting my physique should be where i want it to be.


I also did not do cardio during my cycle. You look great!

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## southmadejd

Good job Morph....are you going to cut now?

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## Amorphic

> Good job Morph....are you going to cut now?


yes, cutting soon. i have the foundation im happy with, now its just time to bring it out.

everyone else, feel free to critique my pics, be harsh if you want as i know i have a ways to go and any feedback is appreciated.

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## thetank

man take a new back double bi so you have a direct compairison..its harder to tell without the same pose but what i do know, is you look way ****in bigger than you used too...you're too hard on yourself man from the way you talked about your progess for most of this log i didnt expect you got very good results but you look ridiculously better and way bigger. when you cut you are gonna look ****in sick man. your body looks pretty balanced too..wheels are up to par with yoru upper body and nothign really seems to stand out as lagging..chest looks to have alot more shape than it did as well. jsut goes to show how much the scale doesnt mean a****in thing. man im like 189 right now and used to be 240, but people would never in a million years guess i lost 50 bls and theres no way i look smaller(except for maybe in a sweatshirt) and those are some serious ****in tiger stripes youve got goin on your pec inserts man goddamn! do yourself a favor and take care of those..lol ive never put anything on my stretchmarks..and it definately shows. lol.
bottom line is you look good man, and should be proud of the size youve gotten too. props hommes!! looking forward to your next log..a cut is gonna do some crazy ****in things to your physique man i think even you will be shocked.
peace
tank

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## Amorphic

> man take a new back double bi so you have a direct compairison..its harder to tell without the same pose but what i do know, is you look way ****in bigger than you used too...you're too hard on yourself man from the way you talked about your progess for most of this log i didnt expect you got very good results but you look ridiculously better and way bigger. when you cut you are gonna look ****in sick man. your body looks pretty balanced too..wheels are up to par with yoru upper body and nothign really seems to stand out as lagging..chest looks to have alot more shape than it did as well. jsut goes to show how much the scale doesnt mean a****in thing. man im like 189 right now and used to be 240, but people would never in a million years guess i lost 50 bls and theres no way i look smaller(except for maybe in a sweatshirt) and those are some serious ****in tiger stripes youve got goin on your pec inserts man goddamn! do yourself a favor and take care of those..lol ive never put anything on my stretchmarks..and it definately shows. lol.
> bottom line is you look good man, and should be proud of the size youve gotten too. props hommes!! looking forward to your next log..a cut is gonna do some crazy ****in things to your physique man i think even you will be shocked.
> peace
> tank


thanks bro, coming from you that means a lot.

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## wukillabee

Good cycle bro, can really see a difference! Glad to see ur cycle finally turned out good after a rocky start.

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## Amorphic

feel free to critique my physique as well guys. anything lagging and guestimates on bf%

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## mauler

why did you remove the pics bro?

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## Amorphic

> why did you remove the pics bro?


i like to keep relatively anonymous on the forum. i keep the pics up for a bit to get a little feedback then remove until the next time i feel my physique has reached the level im pleased with to share with everyone.

next cycle log will have more pictures than this one as i plan on cutting very hard.

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## mauler

ive been following your cycle, can you pmme them, id reallyliketoseewhat you did

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## Amorphic

*PCT DAY 28

Looking back at this month this has been a hard ride. Emotionally ive had some major ups and downs, even to the point of mild depression i believe.

I'm still feeling emotional but overall i feel basically normal in the gym. Pumps are normal and the post workout burn is back to pre cycle levels. I never noticed how amazing my recovery time was on cycle, i was training harder than ever before and i was never sore.

anyways, i dont think theres much left to talk about in this thread, i'll be starting another thread soon when i get back on cycle.*

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## stallion_1

good luck

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