# STEROIDS FORUM > SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators) Information Forum >  My SARMs S4 Log

## bass

i decided to start a log on my first cycle of SARMs , this is my first cycle of any kind so not sure how will my body react. so far i am on my 4th day at 75mgs ed and no changes, i will increase my dose next week to 100mgs. i am still cutting so i am on a strict diet. everyday i intake 300 grams of protein or more, 200 grams of carbs, and 50 grams of fat. so far i think i have been able to maintain the muscles i have and loosing fat at the same time, i am hoping that i can increase muscle by doing this cycle. I’ll keep you posted.

PS. i am using Lion's SARM

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## "Maximus"

Nice bro; hopefully S4 helps you achieve the results you're looking for.. Keep us posted!

Also, I read that 100-150mg is the average dose which other users have experienced the fat burning benefits of this chem.. but again, that's just hearsay! ..I commend you for testing this yourself!

Max

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## bass

thanks Bro, I also like to mention that i have right elbow pain and left shoulder cuff pain, and unfortunately a minor case of hemorrhoids due to heavy squats which seems to be going away. my last elbow (left hand) pain lasted 6 months to fully recover, so we'll see if SARMs will help my right elbow heal faster this time...my current elbow pain is 3 weeks old.

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## fcuk

> i decided to start a log on my first cycle of SARMs , this is my first cycle of any kind so not sure how will my body react. so far i am on my 4th day at 75mgs ed and no changes, i will increase my dose next week to 100mgs. i am still cutting so i am on a strict diet. everyday i intake 300 grams of protein or more, 200 grams of carbs, and 50 grams of fat. so far i think i have been able to maintain the muscles i have and loosing fat at the same time, i am hoping that i can increase muscle by doing this cycle. I’ll keep you posted.
> 
> PS. i am using Lion's SARM


You didnt notice anything when you took your first dose? I could definetly feel it affecting my mood and libido.

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## elpropiotorvic

Thank u thank u thank u ... The truth being said there is a lo of mixed info on the bloody s4 and eventhough phate already did his log it appeared to me that he didn't take s4 .... Keep us posted ... Does it taste like sh!it?

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## bass

yes it does taste nasty, like a very strong mouthwash with bitter aftertaste, it only lasts about 20-30 minutes and the taste is gone.

as for feeling anything else besides strength and gains, i am already horny all the time so i can't really tell if it made any difference. Well it didn’t suffer lets just say that…

here is my report for last night workout,

blood pressure, is good.
endurance seemed better,
worked with light weights but felt more pumped than with my normal weights.
did a 20 minute cardio after workout and felt i can go more
i have elbow and shoulder pain but seemed to be able to tolerate the pain better

today i am working my chest and will report the stats tonight.

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## Phate

> Thank u thank u thank u ... The truth being said there is a lo of mixed info on the bloody s4 and *eventhough phate already did his log it appeared to me that he didn't take s4* .... Keep us posted ... Does it taste like sh!it?


why do you think that?




> yes it does taste nasty, like a very strong mouthwash with bitter aftertaste, it only lasts about 20-30 minutes and the taste is gone.
> 
> as for feeling anything else besides strength and gains, i am already horny all the time so i can't really tell if it made any difference. Well it didnt suffer lets just say that
> 
> here is my report for last night workout,
> 
> blood pressure, is good.
> endurance seemed better,
> worked with light weights but felt more pumped than with my normal weights.
> ...


are you going to get bloodwork done?

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## elpropiotorvic

^^ I dunno I just have read wonders on this thing and then there was the guy also that said u didn't take any... And to the looks of ur blog u just made natural gains ... Or not? I mean u have never cycled so is not like other ppl in here that don't feel it but they have done god knows how many cycles..... What m saying is that u trained hard and u know ur thing with the diet( even though it was not a bulker) and I'm sure u took care of resting and not partying ... So I don know ...

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## Phate

> ^^ I dunno I just have read wonders on this thing and then there was the guy also that said u didn't take any... And to the looks of ur blog u just made natural gains ... Or not? I mean u have never cycled so is not like other ppl in here that don't feel it but they have done god knows how many cycles..... What m saying is that u trained hard and u know ur thing with the diet( even though it was not a bulker) and I'm sure u took care of resting and not partying ... So I don know ...


i'm not getting offensive or anything bro, i was asking because honestly i felt like i wasn't taking anything, but i had really really bad night vision and ALL lights were yellow which is a side of the S4, plus let's just say that i know my source was legit because he's the guy that's supplying everyone else right now so idk....i just figured it would be more apparent

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## liftsmore

So what i've read is that this SARMs seems to be the miracle drug...like test but without the sides.

Is Lion a reliable source?

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## bass

> So what i've read is that this SARMs seems to be the miracle drug...like test but without the sides.
> 
> Is Lion a reliable source?


Yes it is in my opinion, so far...but I can’t really compare it to anything since this is my first cycle of anything.

Okay, at 75 gms a day now i feel something i never felt before, first i think the vision thing is kicking in slightly, but not something i would worry about at this point, i also feel i can do more reps.

Today i did my routine chest workout and felt easier than usual, my last reps which is 4th of flat DB press i usually fail at 6th rep, now i went all the way up to ten, so there is something here. my wife made a comment that i look a little muscular and little tighter, i still have about 1" think fat around my belly but she noticed its tighter around my body, if that make any sense! Anyway i am still in the early stages on this and was thinking to increase to 100 mgs a day, but if this stuff keeps kicking at 75 then i'll just stay with that. i asked Lion about the dose and he was hesitant to give me a definite answer, but he also said that his stuff is potent and 50 mgs a day would be a good start. i'll keep you guys posted...

Phate, yes i will do a blood work after i am done, i already did one before so i can compare.

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## elpropiotorvic

> i'm not getting offensive or anything bro, i was asking because honestly i felt like i wasn't taking anything, but i had really really bad night vision and ALL lights were yellow which is a side of the S4, plus let's just say that i know my source was legit because he's the guy that's supplying everyone else right now so idk....i just figured it would be more apparent


No prob men I didn't thinknu were ... But that's what I thought that u had a legit source, so I kinda got very disapoointed cause u got suppressed and u didn't make that big of gains, and like I said I'm sure on ur end diet training and sleeping were. On check so .... I liked so far the owner of the post already feels differe t and his wife told him, and hopefully s4 is not bunk and we are able to get our hands on this promising drug 

Btw big thank u to lion cus I'm sure all the people that wanted to try it didn't have a way to get it ...at least me

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## Carlito B

Real acetamidoxolutamide is supposed to take effect within a day or even hours.

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## bass

Just finished my Triceps workout and I felt a difference in three areas, strength, endurance and less pain in my elbow and joints in general. I was able to do more weights at least by 20% more and still felt like I can go more, but I am not going to push it, I don't want to tear anything...tomorrow is my rest day, so I’ll be back on Tuesday.

BTW, I also felt pumped up more than before.

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## elpropiotorvic

Great... Sounds promising

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## bass

Today is my rest day, but still did one hour cardio. i must say that my elbow pain is getting so much better, like i said the last similar elbow pain took months to heal, this one seems to be going away fast. I’ll keep you guys posted on that.

BTW, starting tomorrow i am increasing from 75mgs to 100mgs a day.

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## diamond

so sarms helps with joint pain too?

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## bass

so far so good, actually this was the main reason i wanted to do this. I am actually feeling good, lighter on my feet and seems to have good energy throughout the day. but the real results is how I feel when I am done with the cycle, so we'll see. today I’ll be working my shoulders and legs, I’ll report back tonight after workout...

PS. another thing I want to mention, I have been sleeping much better, I used to wake up every 10 minutes toss and turn, now I wake up when the clock goes off. Maybe that’s why I feel I have more energy through the day…

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## tballz

Are you noticing any testicular atrophy?

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## bass

not at all, i only been on it for a week, so not sure, but thanks i'll keep a close attention to that...why do you ask, have you heard anything negative?

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## tballz

Some people swear that it does but others say otherwise.

Let us know about that. If that is the case then pct is required.

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## MuscleScience

I just read a bunch of papers on Ostarine S-4, In clinical trials it has shown that it does not shut down the LH and FSH production. At least that was the findings for one study.

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## tballz

> I just read a bunch of papers on Ostarine S-4, In clinical trials it has shown that it does not shut down the LH and FSH production. At least that was the findings for one study.


Awesome...you got that study? Can you post it? Link?

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## MuscleScience

> Awesome...you got that study? Can you post it? Link?


Hmm, I didnt save it on my computer. I will look it up again tonight and post a link.

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## tballz

Much appreciated MuscleScience

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## freakinhuge

that study would be very much appreciated, thanks for the updates on the sarms log, very interesting that it is helping with the joint pain as well.

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## MuscleScience

> Much appreciated MuscleScience





> that study would be very much appreciated, thanks for the updates on the sarms log, very interesting that it is helping with the joint pain as well.


As promised, read the full article it has a lot of info on how steroids work in the body. 

http://molinterv.aspetjournals.org/c...urcetype=HWCIT

*Androgens are essential for male development and the maintenance of male secondary characteristics, such as bone mass, muscle mass, body composition, and spermatogenesis. The main disadvantages of steroidal androgens are their undesirable physicochemical and pharmacokinetic properties. The recent discovery of nonsteroidal selective androgen receptor modulators (SARMs) provides a promising alternative for testosterone replacement therapies with advantages including oral bioavailability, flexibility of structural modification, androgen receptor specificity, tissue selectivity, and the lack of steroid-related side effects.*

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## bass

> As promised, read the full article it has a lot of info on how steroids work in the body. 
> 
> http://molinterv.aspetjournals.org/c...urcetype=HWCIT
> 
> *Androgens are essential for male development and the maintenance of male secondary characteristics, such as bone mass, muscle mass, body composition, and spermatogenesis. The main disadvantages of steroidal androgens are their undesirable physicochemical and pharmacokinetic properties. The recent discovery of nonsteroidal selective androgen receptor modulators (SARMs) provides a promising alternative for testosterone replacement therapies with advantages including oral bioavailability, flexibility of structural modification, androgen receptor specificity, tissue selectivity, and the lack of steroid-related side effects.*


Thanks MuscleScience, Ill read it for sure.

Okay, my report for shoulder and leg workout today, the best workout yet, elbow pain right on the elbow bone is gone, but still have slightly torn forearm muscle pain, but very tolerable. i increased my weights and felt great, i am already sore and it feels great, my wife made a comment again that i look more muscular, i see it it too but not sure what to say to be honest, because as you know i am cutting as well, and i am losing weight but gaining strength! its either my imagination or the S4 is working as promised. But tomorrow is the real test for pain, since my forearm is in pain I cant do heavy weights on biceps, but will give it a shot and see how its doing, so until tomorrow

PS. Couple of things, first I had this shoulder injury and havent been able to do chest flys with dumbbells for the last 6 months, for the heck of it I tried one set of tem with 15 ponds DB and there was no pain what so ever, before the S4 I couldnt even do it even without weights, just the motion itself gave me excruciating pain. So I am looking forward to chest day so I can give the flys a test.

Secondly, i have found that I sweat allot more and almost immediately whether its weight lifting or cardio.

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## killface

I'm glad to see this is working for you. 

Did you decide how long you're going to run it?

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## liftsmore

Bass thank you so much for logging your experience with S4. This stuff looks very promising. It's even good for joint pain. 

My only question, since it is so beneficial, when will it be outlawed?

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## elpropiotorvic

Good thing bass ... Have u cycled before ....? ... Can u compare it to smoething.... Increasing weight by cutting is something I can only do with back not the other muscleszl... That's pretty good.. How much of cardio are u doing

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## bass

you are welcome guys...i am glad its working for me especially for my joints. i will be running this cycle for 5 weeks, now i am at 100mgs a day, and so far so good, the vision thing is still very mild, but everything else feels great, my body feels younger. i am almost 50 and the other day one of my friends who hasn't seen me in 3 months was shocked how i transformed my body, he said that i looked 20 years younger. great feeling to know that my hard work is paying off...

no i never cycled before, this is my first time, so even if it does the slightest thing for me i will be happy. today is my biceps day, which been my weakest due to the forearm muscle pain, so i am looking forward to see if i can go back to my normal weights.

PS. due to my BF% my chest drooped a little, now I have noticed that its firming up and getting rounder, somewhat lifted, not sure if it’s the S4 or just because I am burning fat. I will post a before and after photo if my after photo look decent enough!

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## elpropiotorvic

Bass good stuff... Btw I read a study where nobody reported vision problems...not sure If I can dig it up... Maybe different ppl... Differend disposition or something

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## bass

you probably right, but today being in southern California its very sunny, and when i entered a well lit restaurant it was a little dark but a minute later it became bright. this scenario usually happens anyway, but was more noticeable to me, but my mind could be playing tricks on me due to the fact that its been mentioned.

i can't tell you how great i feel, i only worked my chest one time since i started the cycle and my chest feel tight and looks more rounded. i just hope this will not stop here, i am hoping that the effect keeps increasing so i can get better results. if i like the end results i will start another cycle in 3-4 months after this one.

PS. i really didn’t expect my chest to tighten up due to the fat around it, so I guess I don’t have to worry about gyno. So far so good.

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## tballz

The vision might be a placebo effect since that's what people are saying.

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## Phate

> The vision might be a placebo effect since that's what people are saying.


not with real s4 it's not, my night vision got bad enough where it would be a full moon out and i couldn't see an inch in front of my face, literally, i would walk into my door or wall before i could see it and they are both white

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## elpropiotorvic

Phate I posted something for u earlier on this thread...

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## Phate

> Phate I posted something for u earlier on this thread...


where?

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## elpropiotorvic

> No prob men I didn't thinknu were ... But that's what I thought that u had a legit source, so I kinda got very disapoointed cause u got suppressed and u didn't make that big of gains, and like I said I'm sure on ur end diet training and sleeping were. On check so .... I liked so far the owner of the post already feels differe t and his wife told him, and hopefully s4 is not bunk and we are able to get our hands on this promising drug 
> 
> Btw big thank u to lion cus I'm sure all the people that wanted to try it didn't have a way to get it ...at least me


here... Well anyways bass feels different already... Is there any chance something was off .. The dosing or something

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## bass

Okay folks, I have a surprise for you guys especially for over 40 guys like me…

But first let me tell you how my biceps/back workout went today. I am beyond thrilled, I am really liking this stuff, I’ve never felt so pumped before, I felt like my biceps were going top explode, and didn’t even do my normal weights due to my forearm muscle pain, I could have done more weights but didn’t want to take the chance, my last injury took months to heal. My body feel sore as heck and I just finished about 30 minutes ago, I just couldn’t wait to get on here and tell you guys how it went. The before photo was taken 6 weeks ago, and the after just 15 minutes ago, you be the judge.

The surprise, the first 20 reps warm-up bicep curls felt a little discomfort in my forearm, after that there was almost no pain, and now I feel no pain whatsoever, where before S4 I couldn’t sleep from pain, now its almost gone, I can’t wait to try BD flys after tomorrow, I haven’t done those in over 6 months due to shoulder injury, but like yesterday I tried few cable flys and there was no pain at all, so I am vey excited. Tomorrow is rest day for me, I always like to rest before chest day. So far so good, I’ll keep you posted. BTW, I am almost 50…

PS. This is the first time I got a Charlie horse on my right calf doing pull downs, and I was doing 20 lbs more that normal, so strength is up for sure

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## liftsmore

Bro, you are looking good. Definitely better than 'before.' This is great. I might be putting in an order for S4 very soon.

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## elpropiotorvic

Bass I like ur log... Might be because that's the type of results I wanted to hear from s4 might give it a try

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## bass

thanks Bro, I still have lots of BF, my goal by 6/21/2010 will be down to 10% or less.

Okay, I need to do a quick report regarding my elbow pain also the vision side effect. first the elbow pain, this morning as expected I felt a little pain in my elbow but only at a specific spot, where before it was all around my elbow, so that’s a good news.

Vision side effect, last night was the first time I’ve noticed it kick in. I was working on the computer in my bedroom and the lights were off, so basically I was staring at the computer screen for about an hour or so, when I turned it off and went to bed I couldn't see a thing, the window blinds were open and there was light outside coming into the room, whatever spot I looked at it went dark but could see from the side of my eye , for example if I looked at the widow directly there was nothing, but as soon as I rotated my eyeballs away from the window I could see it clearly. it took about an hour to get my vision back to normal where I could see everything in my room and nothing went dark when I looked directly at it. during the day I am fine, it seem to be a minor problem (more like annoying) only in this situation. I feel great today, my biceps are sore more than ever and I am loving it.

PS. I also noticed soreness in my chest and probably from doing back exercises but never before felt sore like this. I may not look it but I feel tight, as if my skin was shrink wrapped around my body. great feeling.

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## bass

also like to mention my weight loss has stopped, I am weighing the same since I stared, I was loosing 1 to 2 pounds a week. I haven't changed my diet, so this could be muscle gains, but not sure yet.

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## kaigab

well, for sure you are making progress. please keep posting pics.

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## tballz

> not with real s4 it's not, my night vision got bad enough where it would be a full moon out and i couldn't see an inch in front of my face, literally, i would walk into my door or wall before i could see it and they are both white


Interesting. So Bass you are having vision problems, I guess the lion stuff is legit. I maybe making an order soon but I want to see how it goes for Bass after he comes off of it. 

Will you be doing any type of pct? tamox? clomi?

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## bass

oh yeas...its legit...and no as far as PCT, so far no one has suggested to do PCT, in fact it was suggested to use S4 during PCT.

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## bass

> well, for sure you are making progress. please keep posting pics.


i will post one more after i am done, about 3 weeks or so from now.

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## tballz

Have you noticed an increase in libido, yet? Will there be?

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## bass

i think so...

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## bass

Okay, just thought its important to report this, i just got back driving over one hour at night, a little uncomfortable because all the incoming headlights looked yellow tinted and was confusing especially looking in the rear view mirror, but still was manageable. today is my rest day and my body still feel very sore, i was on fire today and just wanted to rip the weights up and do my chest workout, but managed to restrain myself and just take the day off, i am all fired up really and can't wait for tomorrow, chest workout. So far so good.

PS. I didn’t get enough sleep last night due to the energy drink, so I felt really tired today and somewhat lightheaded, but we’ll see how I feel tomorrow since I am going to sleep now and hopefully get a good night sleep.

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## killface

> my goal by 6/21/2010 will be down to 10% or less.


Any idea where you're at now?

Personally I try not to obsess over percentages (not saying you are). I'm sure if you keep doing what you're doing, you'll look great by June. Hell, you're looking good now IMO.

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## liftsmore

So this is helping with joint pain, do you think this would help with tendinitis?

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## bass

> Any idea where you're at now?
> 
> Personally I try not to obsess over percentages (not saying you are). I'm sure if you keep doing what you're doing, you'll look great by June. Hell, you're looking good now IMO.


thanks for the complement killface, it really means allot to me. i really have no idea, but from what i have read and seen i think i am between 25-30%. perhaps when i post the results photo without a shirt at the end of my cycle, then have members take a guess. BTW, May 10th, 2009 is when i stared my diet and so far i lost 30 pounds, maybe more because i think i have gained muscles as well, i know this because i keep punching new holes on my belt, i wear 36" pants now and they are getting loose again, i can easily pinch my belly skin and it feels soft, where before i couldn't even fit it in my whole hand and it was hard. so far my skin is tight on my body, so no sagging so far.

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## bass

> So this is helping with joint pain, do you think this would help with tendinitis?


Okay, here is new findings,

i normally take two Advils in the morning and two prior to workout right about 6:30pm, that seem to help with the pain, since yesterday was my rest day i didn't take the evening advils and this morning i felt minor pain in the joint area where the tendons are. i tend to sleep on my arm during the night and wakeup sore on my shoulders, so i could have slept on it and aggravated the joint. BTW, no shoulder pain whatsoever in the last week or so. today is my chest day and will be trying an exercise that i haven't done in over 6 months due to a shoulder injury, DB flys. we'll see.

PS. my triceps still sore, never lasted this long...

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## elpropiotorvic

Bass u are looking good man.. No way u are 25 % bf

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## tballz

> Bass u are looking good man.. No way u are 25 % bf


Yes definitely looking good. I would say 18-20% bf

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## bass

no way! are you guys for real? 18-20%!!! man that would be awesome if you guys are correct...i should get it checked anyway.

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## Tesla

> no way! are you guys for real? 18-20%!!! man that would be awesome if you guys are correct...i should get it checked anyway.


I'd say that's pretty darned close. I'm at 21 % right now and you look slightly leaner than I am.

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## bass

> I'd say that's pretty darned close. I'm at 21 % right now and you look slightly leaner than I am.


Tesla, do you have photos of you that i can see and compare? i still can't believe i am that load in BF...

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## CHAP

Bass your gonna have to take your shirt off for me to get a good look at cha bro.I glad to hear that overall your liking the S-4

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## bass

> Bass your gonna have to take your shirt off for me to get a good look at cha bro.I glad to hear that overall your liking the S-4


thanks bro, but i am still hesitant to take the shirt off because of the fat around my breast area, but once thats gone i will take the shirt off, here is one i just took after my chest workout few minutes ago. i will write up the report in the next post.

BTW Chap, because youre listed as a friend you can see my albums, i have two, one is for dieting and the other is for bulking progress.

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## bass

Okay, here is my report for today’s chest workout. I was all fired up and ready to rip the weights.

I started with DB flat press with 45 pounds, then did 60 pounds up to 12 reps, that’s 4 more than my usual, then another 8 reps of 60 pounds which I normally don’t do, then finished it with 50 pounds 12 reps. Felt great.

My highest for incline DB was 40 pounds, I did three sets of 12 reps at 45 pounds with no pain. Also increased the angle by 10 degrees.

And finally for the DD exercises I did the flys starting at 15 pounds 20 reps, no pain, then increased to 20 pounds 12 reps, no pain, then finished with 30 pounds 10 reps at a slight incline. Felt great but with little pain, nothing to worry about.

Finally I did cable crossovers and the only pain was at the right elbow, but still was able to finish my three sets with no damage. Its funny I didn’t feel the elbow pain when I was doing biceps!

Overall, I had more strength, stamina and less pain, I feel as if my joints are really healing. Another good workout.

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## killface

> Bass u are looking good man.. No way u are 25 % bf


Obviously we can't be sure until we see more pics but I'd be very surprised if it was 25% or higher.

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## Gomi

From the looks of it. You seem to be under 20%.

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## bass

Sorry for the late report, and thanks for your input everyone...

Yesterday was my triceps day, it felt good and was able to do more weights than usual. Everything else has leveled it seems, no increase in strength, endurance or energy, but still feels one step ahead. The vision thing is still the same, yellowish tint and it takes about an hour to adjust in extreme light to dark. But during the day is tolerable, no other negative side effects. I look a little leaner but have not noticed any fat loss, the scale still says 203-205 and have been at this weight for about a month or so. I am still at 100 mgs per day.

Today is a rest day from lifting, but did a one hour cardio and the energy was great.

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## scoobysti87

thanks for logging your cycle, i just recently found out about S4 but I wanna do more research before I consider it an option, your log is definitely helping with my decision though. In regards to your BF, id have to agree your probably around 20%

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## bass

Thanks Scooby.

Okay, just finished shoulders and legs, I was able to add 20% more weights and felt fine throughout, I felt I could do more weights but wanted to play it safe so stayed with the 20% increase. I feel the fat around my chest is melting faster than it was before the cycle, however the belly fat seems to be the same. I am looking leaner for sure, and no major pain so far. The elbow is doing much better, still minor pain on the right elbow tendon but no where near what it was before the cycle. Shoulders seem to be doing really good. Vision still the same as my last report. Blood pressure is 105 over 68 and heartbeat at 94 bpp (normal is 117 over 73 and heartbeat at 75 bpp), I just finished working out, so I am still cooling down. I am still sweating more and easily just from simple movements. Skin still very clean, no acne. Libido still normal perhaps more than normal. So far so good.

PS. Also my mood has been really good, no sign of aggression whatsoever.

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## liftsmore

How long have you been on? How long do you plan on being on?

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## yeti as3

Here as a post from another site about serms and vision

"Apparently most vision problems begin to occur after a week of continual use. The thought is that with a 4 hour half life, doing a 5 on 2 off will keep vision problems out of the equation."

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## bass

> How long have you been on? How long do you plan on being on?


since August 22, i am planning to do two more weeks.

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## bass

> Here as a post from another site about serms and vision
> 
> "Apparently most vision problems begin to occur after a week of continual use. The thought is that with a 4 hour half life, doing a 5 on 2 off will keep vision problems out of the equation."


i really don't want to interrupt the cycle, and the vision thing is not all that bad, and will go away after i am done.

in my previous report i stead no change in fat loss around my belly, well today i weighed 208 (thats 3 pounds more than my weight) and the belt felt a little more lose that usual. so i guess the fat around my belly is melting as well, not sure if its faster with S4, but it is melting. i am most impressed how fast the fat around my chest is going away especially around my nipples.

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## bass

Just finished my biceps and back workout, it went exactly the same as my last workout, so there is no need to repeat.

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## crazy_rocks

hey are you taking 100mg at once or are you dividing it 50mg twice a day?

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## killface

> ...the belly fat seems to be the same.


Unfortunately, it's usually the last to go :P

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## tballz

bass, keep up the great work and keep logging your results. 

You are helping out a lot of people here. Me included.

Thank you.

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## Triple Stack

Yes, please keep us posted! I'm following intently since I'm seriously considering S4 after my next cycle. It looks like it will help retain gains after PCT & possibly keep the growth going...

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## bass

> hey are you taking 100mg at once or are you dividing it 50mg twice a day?


i am taking 25mgs every 4 hours four times a day, i was thinking maybe 50mgs twice a day, but Ill do that on my next cycle to see if it makes any difference.

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## liftsmore

> i am taking 25mgs every 4 hours four times a day, i was thinking maybe 50mgs twice a day, but Ill do that on my next cycle to see if it makes any difference.


So how long do you plan on going off then going back on cycle? Will you stay off as long as you were on?

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## bass

i like to wait at least four months before i do my next cycle. and depending on my results from this cycle and blood test i may start with 150mgs per day. but after that and hopefully by June next year I’ll be at or under 10% bf, then I’ll consider serous gear, i don't know what yet.

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## elpropiotorvic

So any improvements so far ?

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## bass

Yesterday was my rest day from lifting, I only did one hour cardio.

Today, I just finished my chest workout, it felt great again, I used the same weights as last time but all exercises felt much easier, again I did 12 reps of the 60pounds DB flat press, I think I will upsize in my next workout, maybe to 65 pounds, I want to make sure I don’t rip or tear anything. As I mentioned before regarding my shoulder injury that I couldn’t do chest flies, last week I did DB flies, well today for the first time in over six months I did cable flies at 25 pounds on each side, and felt no pain, I could have gone more but again I wanted to play it safe. I believe the S4 helps joints and perhaps speed up recovery of torn muscle and tendons, I say this because my shoulder pain is almost gone, and my elbow tendon pain is disappearing slowly but much quicker than my last elbow injury on the left arm. My chest looked pumped up more than usual and even my son who competes with me said “wow” when he saw me afar workout.

PS. As I said before, I still have way too much fat around my chest and belly, but my chest looks much rounder than before and leaner. the transformation is much quicker with S4 in my opinion.

BTW, I wasn’t comfortable in posting my pics because I still have allot of work to do, but I think it is important to show you guys where I was and where I am now, so I am posting a pic before I started dieting and one from few days ago. I don’t want you to get disappointed thinking I’ll look like Jay Cutler or Ronnie Colman when I post my pic after this cycle!!

NOTE: corrected the cable flys number from 50 to 25 pounds, sorry i misread the weights.

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## killface

That's an impressive improvement Bass. I think you're going to be very pleased with your physique in another couple of months if you keep it up (which I'm sure you will).

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## gunner66

thanks for logging this!

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## nathantyler

> Bass thank you so much for logging your experience with S4. This stuff looks very promising. It's even good for joint pain. 
> 
> My only question, since it is so beneficial, when will it be outlawed?


what is s4, and where can i get some it sounds really good. i am taking a prohormone called warrior right now it has superdrol tren and epistane in it. is the stuff that you guys are talking about now better/ just a different type of product. let me know

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## bass

thanks guys, i think its important to tell you that even though my chest workout was easier last night, i am absolutely sore to the core today, so that means i got a good workout despite how easy it felt. another thing i like to report is the vision side effect. my last report was that it took about an hour or so to get my vision adjusted after i turned the lights of, now its not adjusting at all. i woke up around 4:00am and still couldn't see the window when i looked directly at it, but as soon as i turn away i see it from the side. so the vision is getting worse, however during day its fine, its even fine at night when the lights are on, its only when I turn the lights off to go to sleep.

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## bass

> what is s4, and where can i get some it sounds really good. i am taking a prohormone called warrior right now it has superdrol tren and epistane in it. is the stuff that you guys are talking about now better/ just a different type of product. let me know


you can't ask for sources bro...i suggest you read the entire log.

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## bass

> That's an impressive improvement Bass. I think you're going to be very pleased with your physique in another couple of months if you keep it up (which I'm sure you will).


thanks Killface, i have been working so hard since early this year, so many injuries and so much sacrifice especially when it comes to food. but i have learned so much, even now i try to look for easy answers, but the more i am here the clearer it becomes that i need to keep working hard and make sacrifices to reach my goal, and i will.

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## tballz

You are looking awesome, bro. Keep up the great work and keep us posted.

So you have no water retention either with SARMs ? No bloat?

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## bass

> You are looking awesome, bro. Keep up the great work and keep us posted.
> 
> So you have no water retention either with SARMs? No bloat?


not at all...

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## jumpman029

Great job bass! your journal is very informative. i just ordered S4 today from Lion. they just got some back in stock this morning. i will too be logging my day by day. do they give u a measuring device to figure out how much to take or do i have to buy one myself? thanks

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## bass

> Great job bass! your journal is very informative. i just ordered S4 today from Lion. they just got some back in stock this morning. i will too be logging my day by day. do they give u a measuring device to figure out how much to take or do i have to buy one myself? thanks


Thanks Jumpman, yes they do give a syringe measured in mls, one ml is 50mgs. the syringe is a cheapy though, the numbers erase easily, i suggest to wrap it with clear tape to protect the numbers from being erased, or just buy a good one. i look forward to your log, have you decided what dose you'll be doing and how to divide it?

BTW, even though i don't need to do PCT, i am doing Clomid 25-50mg a week for 4 weeks and Nolva 20mg a week for 4 weeks.

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## lotsoftime

SARMS is something that I'll like to look into in the future... Maybe next cycle?but I'm not really convinced about it's results. Did you notice any difference when adding the SERMS? The reason I ask is because some athletes do "cycles" of just SERMS to "boost" test levels. An endurance athlete dosent need body builders doses of testosterone so that does the trick.

I'm not knocking it in anyway. I will still try it out down the road. 

Anyways... Really excellent log. Lots of great info. Great progress!

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## bass

> SARMS is something that I'll like to look into in the future... Maybe next cycle?but I'm not really convinced about it's results. Did you notice any difference when adding the SERMS? The reason I ask is because some athletes do "cycles" of just SERMS to "boost" test levels. An endurance athlete dosent need body builders doses of testosterone so that does the trick.
> 
> I'm not knocking it in anyway. I will still try it out down the road. 
> 
> Anyways... Really excellent log. Lots of great info. Great progress!


thanks, you are probably right, SARMs may not do much for younger people but for me it did what i needed, relive or maybe healed my joint pains, have more energy and strength for sure. i don't know hope to compare it with anything else since this is my first cycle of anything, perhaps maybe thats why i am pleases so far, but i know its not going to put allot of muscles, but just the fact t hat i can lift more and get sore for days is great.

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## lotsoftime

> just the fact t hat i can lift more and get sore for days is great.


For sure!

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## elpropiotorvic

Great job bass I'm really happy for u ... Seems like u are going to be getting a very nice shape soon... U can really see the hard work in the difference ...about the guy who asked for s4 it's good cuz it's not illegal .. Even lion sells it from the top banner ...

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## bass

> Great job bass I'm really happy for u ... Seems like u are going to be getting a very nice shape soon... U can really see the hard work in the difference ...about the guy who asked for s4 it's good cuz it's not illegal .. Even lion sells it from the top banner ...


thanks bro, actually i read someone's post asking where can he get S4, and he was bombarded by others telling him he can't ask for sources, i didn't want him to get in trouble.

anyway, i just finished my triceps workout, wow...better than last time, i increased the weights by another 15% and no pain whatsoever. here is a photo i just took right after triceps workout,

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## jumpman029

> Thanks Jumpman, yes they do give a syringe measured in mls, one ml is 50mgs. the syringe is a cheapy though, the numbers erase easily, i suggest to wrap it with clear tape to protect the numbers from being erased, or just buy a good one. i look forward to your log, have you decided what dose you'll be doing and how to divide it?
> 
> BTW, even though i don't need to do PCT, i am doing Clomid 25-50mg a week for 4 weeks and Nolva 20mg a week for 4 weeks.


Okay cool. I just wanted to make sure. I will probably start of at 50mgs, taking 25mgs twice a day, for about 5 days. And then ill probably up it to 75-100... I havent read back in this thread, but are you taking it everyday or are you doing 5 days on and 2 days off? 

p.s. and about the PCT. I also have clomid. Do you think i should cycle it with my S4? Will the results be better?

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## bass

> Okay cool. I just wanted to make sure. I will probably start of at 50mgs, taking 25mgs twice a day, for about 5 days. And then ill probably up it to 75-100... I havent read back in this thread, but are you taking it everyday or are you doing 5 days on and 2 days off? 
> 
> p.s. and about the PCT. I also have clomid. Do you think i should cycle it with my S4? Will the results be better?


yes i am taking it everyday, and for the PCT question sorry i wish i can answer it for you, actually i asked couple of friends here about the PCT and thats how i decided to do it. Phate also did the S4 cycle and he said you don't need it, but because i am almost 50 i don't want to take any chances. i hope someone can answer your question...

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## jumpman029

> yes i am taking it everyday, and for the PCT question sorry i wish i can answer it for you, actually i asked couple of friends here about the PCT and thats how i decided to do it. Phate also did the S4 cycle and he said you don't need it, but because i am almost 50 i don't want to take any chances. i hope someone can answer your question...


ya im just scared that i would lose my gains if i didn't take it i guess. I think i might take it at the end of my cycle for 2-3 weeks... by the way how long are you cycling S4?? i was think doing 4-5 weeks myself.

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## Captain37

Freaking awesome post Bass.. This is very informative. I have been doing a real deal cycle but I am always interested in different options. This is very cool, keep up the hard work brother and you have made excellent improvements.

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## bass

> ya im just scared that i would lose my gains if i didn't take it i guess. I think i might take it at the end of my cycle for 2-3 weeks... by the way how long are you cycling S4?? i was think doing 4-5 weeks myself.


i purchased two bottles, so 4 weeks. i will start PCT right after i am done with S4.

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## bass

> Freaking awesome post Bass.. This is very informative. I have been doing a real deal cycle but I am always interested in different options. This is very cool, keep up the hard work brother and you have made excellent improvements.


thanks bro...

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## SquatWhat

Hi everybody, 

I am 7 days into Liquid S-4 now and I feel its time for a short notice of my current "results". Taking 1 ml (i.e. 50mg) ed in 3-4 doses. I am 160 lbs with BF around 10%. 

Well, good things first. Fact is, I do/did not experience any negative sides from the stuff at all. No vision thing, nothing.

Now the problem is, I do *not see ANY positive effects, either!* No strengh increase, not the slightest visual change of the body, no change in body weight, just nothing.
I did not take any AAS for the last 20 years and considering myself to be very sensitive to any performance enhancing stuff...

Anybody else had similar (non-)results ?

Maybe I got a spare bottle of the 3mg/ml batch ?!

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## Okinawa_Power

I have a question....What if you run S-4 and some PH/DS????? Say like SPAWN or M-Drol???? What results would you get? Do you think it would have the same affect as say HGH? Let me know waht you think....Thanks....

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## elpropiotorvic

: Hijack:

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## jumpman029

> i purchased two bottles, so 4 weeks. i will start PCT right after i am done with S4.


btw.. how are you taking S4? are you mixing it with orange juice or somethen, or do you just pour some liquid under the tongue? just wondering cuz i heard it tastes like shit!

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## chucklesmcgee

> btw.. how are you taking S4? are you mixing it with orange juice or somethen, or do you just pour some liquid under the tongue? just wondering cuz i heard it tastes like shit!


I'd suggest grapefruit juice. Not only will it mask the taste, it inactivates the CYP3A4 enzyme, which breaks down S4, among many other drugs. It could lead to higher peak levels or a longer half-life of S4. Certainly can't hurt.

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## bass

> btw.. how are you taking S4? are you mixing it with orange juice or somethen, or do you just pour some liquid under the tongue? just wondering cuz i heard it tastes like shit!


i just squirt it in my mouth and drink glass of water immediately. i try to take it on an empty stomach.

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## bass

> Hi everybody, 
> 
> I am 7 days into Liquid S-4 now and I feel its time for a short notice of my current "results". Taking 1 ml (i.e. 50mg) ed in 3-4 doses. I am 160 lbs with BF around 10%. 
> 
> Well, good things first. Fact is, I do/did not experience any negative sides from the stuff at all. No vision thing, nothing.
> 
> Now the problem is, I do *not see ANY positive effects, either!* No strengh increase, not the slightest visual change of the body, no change in body weight, just nothing.
> I did not take any AAS for the last 20 years and considering myself to be very sensitive to any performance enhancing stuff...
> 
> ...


start your own log bro so things don't get confusing for everybody. if 50mgs per day is not doing anything for you then Id suggest increasing it, and try to split the dose into 2 or 3 per day.

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## bass

BTW, rest day from lifting today, i only did one hour cardio. my chest is still sore from two days ago.

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## tballz

> Hi everybody, 
> 
> I am 7 days into Liquid S-4 now and I feel its time for a short notice of my current "results". Taking 1 ml (i.e. 50mg) ed in 3-4 doses. I am 160 lbs with BF around 10%. 
> 
> Well, good things first. Fact is, I do/did not experience any negative sides from the stuff at all. No vision thing, nothing.
> 
> Now the problem is, I do *not see ANY positive effects, either!* No strengh increase, not the slightest visual change of the body, no change in body weight, just nothing.
> I did not take any AAS for the last 20 years and considering myself to be very sensitive to any performance enhancing stuff...
> 
> ...


You should start your own thread and post results. You are only 7 days in...AAS won't even show in 7 days.

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## *El Diablo*

Good log. Great progress for ur age

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## Laughterbirth

good stuff, bass.

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## bass

thanks guys,

i need to report this even though yesterday was my cardio only day. last night i felt the pains for the vision side effects, literally. i went outside while the lights were off and tripped over a chair, it hurt like son of a btich, even my son who was walking with me looked at me like (how in the hell you didn’t see that chair!). also went driving and it was terrible, the only thing i could see was where the headlight were pointing. so driving at night while on SARMs is not recommended.

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## jumpman029

> thanks guys,
> 
> i need to report this even though yesterday was my cardio only day. last night i felt the pains for the vision side effects, literally. i went outside while the lights were off and tripped over a chair, it hurt like son of a btich, even my son who was walking with me looked at me like (how in the hell you didnt see that chair!). also went driving and it was terrible, the only thing i could see was where the headlight were pointing. so driving at night while on SARMs is not recommended.



thanks for letting us know Bass. but about this night-vision problem, do you know if it stops after the cycle is over?

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## bass

> thanks for letting us know Bass. but about this night-vision problem, do you know if it stops after the cycle is over?


as far as i have read yes, and according to Phate who ran this cycle his vision went back to normal in about 5 days after he stopped, he had it worse than me, i think because he was doing 150mgs a day, i am doing 100mgs a day.

Today was my shoulders and legs day, but decided to do biceps and back, I was able to increase 10 pounds more than my last workout on the cable curls, same pain on the right elbow but very tolerable. So far I don’t see major gains, but definitely strength and endurance.

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## jumpman029

> as far as i have read yes, and according to Phate who ran this cycle his vision went back to normal in about 5 days after he stopped, he had it worse than me, i think because he was doing 150mgs a day, i am doing 1mg a day.
> 
> Today was my shoulders and legs day, but decided to do biceps and back, I was able to increase 10 pounds more than my last workout on the cable curls, same pain on the right elbow but very tolerable. So far I dont see major gains, but definitely strength and endurance.


wait.. you mean your doing 100mgs a day? right

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## bass

sorry, yes 100mgs per day...i'll correct the post above.

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## bass

Yesterday i did shoulders and legs, strength still good but no increase since last workout. vision problem is getting annoying especially at night when i turn the lights off. i can't wait to finish this cycle, i want to see if my joint pains will come back and if the strength gains will stay. normally i rest before chest day, but my chest feels great and completely sore free, so I’ll do chest today, triceps tomorrow then rest one day.

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## bass

i should have rested today! i could barley finish my chest workout today, i normally rest one day before chest day but decided to workout without rest anyway. Regardless i got a good workout, my chest is pumped and already sore. no pain in the joints whatsoever, just the expected minor pain from heavy lifting. i did flys with more weights and felt great, in fact my last set was about 9-10 rep to failure. i am still hovering at about 205 pounds and my belt still feels comfortable or the same when i started.

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## bass

great triceps workout today, my normal weight stack is 120 pounds which is 12 stacks, last workout i went up to 14 stacks, but today i went up to 16 stacks and my feet kept coming off the floor, great stamina and strength. My chest is killing me today from yesterday’s workout, sore as hell. I love it. Today was very noticeable that my belt was loose, almost wanted to pull more but there were no more holes. So this means I am loosing fat and gaining muscle for sure, because I still weigh the same perhaps a little more. I believe the effects are showing now more than ever, I almost don’t want this cycle to end, but I got to take a break and get my vision back to normal. so a longer cycle in my opinion is the way to go if you want to gain muscle. My next cycle will definitely be three months maybe with a lower does.

PS. Either my syringe was off or the bottle didn’t quite have 30ml of S4, my second bottle is almost empty, this puts me in three weeks and two days for two bottles of 30ml, which means I was dosing an average of 130mgs per day. Also like to mention the first week I dosed at 75mgs per day, so the rest doses could have been more than 130mgs per day.

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## liftsmore

This is incredible!! Awesome, Bass!!! SARMs is living up to the hype.

I'm putting in my order today.

Again, thanks Bass, you've been a great help.

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## bass

> This is incredible!! Awesome, Bass!!! SARMs is living up to the hype.
> 
> I'm putting in my order today.
> 
> Again, thanks Bass, you've been a great help.


its my pleasure bro, and good luck with your cycle.

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## bass

******News flash******

okay folks, since i am seeing a spike in S4 effects in the last few days, I decided to do another 3-4 weeks. so my log will continue...today my chest is still sore as hell and i am loving it, the pain on my shoulders and right elbow is virtually gone, this is the reason why i am continuing this cycle. i will do a blood test in few days just to make sure things are okay. i'll keep you all posted. Today is my rest day.

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## Deltasaurus

hows ur vision been?

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## bass

> hows ur vision been?


Crappy, only at night though, but I think the benefits outweigh the negatives, so Ill continue...

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## elpropiotorvic

Good to see ur happy with the results ... I am very tempted to try this thing out

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## liftsmore

So you're extending it another 4 weeks? So it will be 3 months on sarms ?

Please post those blood tests. That will be the deciding factor for a lot of people, I think.

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## bass

> So you're extending it another 4 weeks? So it will be 3 months on sarms ?
> 
> Please post those blood tests. That will be the deciding factor for a lot of people, I think.


no, this cycle with two bottles lasted 3 weeks and 2 days so far, this is why Ill be doing another two bottles to extend the cycle to 6 weeks total, maybe 7 weeks depending on how accurate i use the syringe.

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## tballz

Have you noticed that your stamina is up? Do you feel more fresh at the end of your workout?

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## lotsoftime

Ally intrested in the blood work! Keep up the awesome log!

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## bass

another thing i keep forgetting to mention is, my muscles are rock solid, they never felt this hard, i even asked my wife if they felt hard, and she was amazed how hard they were. After tomorrow I’ll take another bicep photo and compare it to the one I already posted and see if there is any difference in size and physique.

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## bass

> Have you noticed that your stamina is up? Do you feel more fresh at the end of your workout?


yes more than ever, i keep forgetting i am almost 50 years old and try to push more...

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## bass

i was only able to increase the weights by 10 pounds, but overall it was a good workout, i could have gone more but my right tendon was starting to hurt, so i didn’t increase the weights. now the tendon pain was constant before S4, now i only feel it on the first warm-up set, after that no problem. here are photos of today, not sure if you can see a difference compared to the last one! BTW, today was my biceps and back, back feels sore already.

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## bass

BTW, i ran out of S4 this morning, so i only took 25mgs today, i guess i wont be getting my two bottles until Monday, hopefully. we'll see if i feel any different without it for few days.

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## bass

great shoulders and legs workout today, even though i ran out ff S4 for few days i added more weights, the only pain i felt was around my right elbow, but again very mild. Now i got the S4 and will continue for the next 3 weeks or so at 100mgs per day.

PS. Just thought I’d mention it, i think I as about 2-3 days without S4 and the vision did not improve, I think it will take longer, perhaps 4-5 days, I hope! The new S4 tastes different, kind of like fiberglass glue, not that I tasted fiberglass glue, but it tastes like the smell of fiberglass, if that make any sense!

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## jumpman029

> great shoulders and legs workout today, even though i ran out ff S4 for few days i added more weights, the only pain i felt was around my right elbow, but again very mild. Now i got the S4 and will continue for the next 3 weeks or so at 100mgs per day.
> 
> PS. Just thought Id mention it, i think I as about 2-3 days without S4 and the vision did not improve, I think it will take longer, perhaps 4-5 days, I hope! The new S4 tastes different, kind of like fiberglass glue, not that I tasted fiberglass glue, but it tastes like the smell of fiberglass, if that make any sense!



Thats weird. do you think they made it different or anything?

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## bass

> Thats weird. do you think they made it different or anything?


i got it from the same place! not sure, he did say its higher quality, so we'll see.

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## jumpman029

well i guess im gonna order two more bottles from lion too cuz i wanted to do a 5-6 week cycle as well. im half way done with my first bottle and its only been about a week

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## auslifta

Thanks for posting, I'm interested in Bloodwork, can you please post bloodwork before? How far off are you from second test? Cheers

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## bass

> Thanks for posting, I'm interested in Bloodwork, can you please post bloodwork before? How far off are you from second test? Cheers


here is my blood test before, i think Ill weight until i am done to do the after blood test, another 3 weeks...

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=400227

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## bass

Chest workout today, i felt pain on my right shoulder as if i injured it on my last workout, it wasn't as intense as i expected or even the same as the last one, but still got a decent workout, more intense compared to before the cycle. this new S4 i got is making me feel better, not sure how to explain it, but kind of lighter on my feet. all my vital signs are still in top shape, my blood pressure is 113/73, this is great for my age. my heartbeat is still the same, no signs of testicle discomfort, acne, gyno or anything like that. the night vision really sucks, this the the only thing i can't wait to get back to normal.

Today I added 10 more pounds doing cable flys, basically I went up to 30 pounds on each side, this is great since I wasn’t able to do it at all even with 5 pounds. I also did 60 pounds x 10 on my last set incline press DB, my max before S4 was 40 pounds, but the rest was the same maybe a little more as my last workout. I think I will increase the dose to 150mgs per day starting tomorrow.

PS. The weight loss is confirmed, I weighed 201 this morning which is less than what I weighed couple of days ago or so. My chest feels bigger, my arms look more muscular and strength still good if not better, so this tells me that I am still burning fat and maintaining or gaining muscle. I bought a scale that reads body fat as well, its not close at all but I use it for a reference, I check my BF after I take a shower and its been reading very consistent, when I started two weeks ago BF was at 30.1% then kept getting less and less, and now its reading 27%, so this tells me I am burning fat. I still do intense 30 minute cardio 1.5/3.5 minutes for 30 minutes in the morning on empty stomach, and 30 minuet low intensity cardio after workout. My diet has not changed, 300gs protein, 200gs or less carbs, and less than 50gs fat, lots of greens. I eat 8-10 times a day, and don’t count calories.

Sorry for the lengthy report.

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## bass

Correction:

60 pounds total on the flys not 60 on each side, sorry about the mistake. i will correct my above posts as well.

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## bass

Hmmm, not sure but i am not as sore as the last two times after chest workout! my right rotator cuff was bothering me all night, damn it i think i pushed too hard. Also for some reason my right elbow pain was more noticeable during the night, not sure what this means, probably i pushed it too hard as well. anyway, i started my 150mgs a day this morning and we'll see what happens.

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## elpropiotorvic

So just for math purposes ... This is 4 times 125us$ ? For 6 weeks of cycle?

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## bass

At 150mgs ed that equals to one bottle every 10 days. so you would need about 4 bottles at $169. holy cow! well, to me its worth it so far, i wasn't expecting to make any gains due to S4, but gains from lifting heavier, which SARMs allowed to do that. also because i can get easily...

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## tballz

Your numbers are looking good, bass. Impressive. Don't apologize for the lengthy reports...they're great and informative.

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## bass

> Your numbers are looking good, bass. Impressive. Don't apologize for the lengthy reports...they're great and informative.


Thanks Tballz, i like to be as accurate as possible so not to mislead anyone. just took my second does of the day, dam this shit taste like, well shit...i swear it tastes like toxic glue, i hope they didn't send me glue by mistake! this would really freeze my joints. LOL

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## jumpman029

hey do you think it would be okay to take Milk Thistle while on S4? Thanks Bass

----------


## bass

> hey do you think it would be okay to take Milk Thistle while on S4? Thanks Bass


not sure bro, i don't even know what milk thistle is! But i eat and drink anything i want as long as its food, health food that is. I try not to take medication or drink alcohol while on the cycle. i also take my does before meals and drink one glass of water so in goes right through my stomach and starts working immediately.

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## bass

Great triceps workout this evening, same weights as last time, endurance is good and strength is stable. I am noticing looking more leaner, even colleagues at work made comments. 

I got the word that this new S4 is more pure for one...the COA on this batch came back at 99% purity, which is very awesome... plus every batch comes out slightly different, depending on the amount of flavoring used. I was told to shake very well before every use. Tomorrow is rest day, Cardio only…

PS. Few people mentioned irregularity in the bowel movement, like diarrhea or soft stool, in my case its soft stool, but I stopped eating flax seeds and started eating one head of celery every day, and my stool has normalized even with 150mgs ed. So far so good.

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## thane222

Wow, Bass thank you so much for this. I have been looking for some reliable info on the new SARMs S4 for a while. Did you get the SARMs from arr? Looks like the SARMs S4 is giving you some very good strength results. Is it doing anything for your stamina as well? Love to see that this stuff is working so well, keep it coming. Thanks

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## bass

> Wow, Bass thank you so much for this. I have been looking for some reliable info on the new SARMs S4 for a while. Did you get the SARMs from arr? Looks like the SARMs S4 is giving you some very good strength results. Is it doing anything for your stamina as well? Love to see that this stuff is working so well, keep it coming. Thanks


You are welcome. yes ARR. stamina is great.

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## jumpman029

> Great triceps workout this evening, same weights as last time, endurance is good and strength is stable. I am noticing looking more leaner, even colleagues at work made comments. 
> 
> I got the word that this new S4 is more pure for one...the COA on this batch came back at 99% purity, which is very awesome... plus every batch comes out slightly different, depending on the amount of flavoring used. I was told to shake very well before every use. Tomorrow is rest day, Cardio only
> 
> PS. Few people mentioned irregularity in the bowel movement, like diarrhea or soft stool, in my case its soft stool, but I stopped eating flax seeds and started eating one head of celery every day, and my stool has normalized even with 150mgs ed. So far so good.


wow 99%. thats awesome. i hope my batch is like that i just got today. where did you here that from?

----------


## bass

> wow 99%. thats awesome. i hope my batch is like that i just got today. where did you here that from?


from the big cat himself.

my first order was in a bottle that looks like whats on the banner, but the new batch bottles looks more like a vial, dark blue color. also the first batch was kind of separating toward the end, not sure if it was the oil or the sugar! but this new batch i haven't seen any separation.

----------


## bass

okay, I’ve come to a conclusion and will finish my cycle when my third bottle if finished, i just can't stand the vision being so week at night. i am half way done with my third bottle and have about a week or so to go. so I’ll stop, start my PCT, then go get a blood test done and see what we got. I’ll keep this log going even after my blood test especially if there are major changes.

----------


## freakinhuge

Wow the ARR sarms is 99% purity, that's amazing. This has to be the best sarms around. Loving your SARMs log, very good information. And I am really interested in trying this product. What is the lowest dose you took and still noticed effects? I wanted to try this at 50 mg per day and was wondering if that would be enough to start seeing effects.

----------


## tballz

freakin, you should be fine starting it at 50mg ed. This read on sarms has been posted here before but it's worth posting again. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2072879/ Great read!!

99% purity is awesome.

----------


## bass

i mentioned how i was getting comments from colleagues at work, so i took a photo today, and posting a photo from two months ago, just a short time before i started the cycle. i think i see a difference, what do you guys think?

----------


## tballz

I think you should never show the 'before' photo ever again. :Smilie:  That 'after' pic is looking good. Size increase and definition are obvious.

Excellent work.

----------


## bass

LOL...once i get where I want I’ll burn all my old photos! nah, I’ll keep them for reminder.

----------


## ghost5445

Excellent log, Really informative. Good results too. Been itching to try the sarms , especially since I cant get in trouble with them and random drug testing.

----------


## lotsoftime

Good on ya

----------


## bass

Today sucked for some reason, i had no strength or the will to do anything. Today was shoulders and legs, did the shoulders okay but legs sucked. I’ve been feeling a little tired lately, not sure what it is, maybe working too hard. I’ll be taking a day off tomorrow from lifting, only cardio for 1 hour in the morning. BTW, today i weighed 200.08 pounds. i hope i am not loosing muscle...

----------


## elpropiotorvic

holy sh!t u have leaned out ...good work there.....ur armes looked like they were just fat ...now they look full

----------


## bass

> holy sh!t u have leaned out ...good work there.....ur armes looked like they were just fat ...now they look full


thanks buddy, lots of hard work and sacrifice pays off, still got ways to go, my goal may not be realistic for my age, but I’ll keep trying...

----------


## CHAP

Nice log BASS ! Sorry I have not been around much bro. Busy as hell. Keep up the hard work.

----------


## bass

> Nice log BASS ! Sorry I have not been around much bro. Busy as hell. Keep up the hard work.


good to see you Chap, and thanks...

----------


## bass

Okay folks, this morning i weighed 199 lbs and absolutely feel great, i can't wait to do chest tomorrow, i am almost out of my third bottle, but having second thoughts about ending the cycle, i am thinking to go through my forth bottle. i didn't feel any different by increasing t he dose to 150mgs per day, in fact i felt better when i was at 100mgs per day. Not sure yet but i think i will continue the cycle and go through my forth bottle. The main reason i wanted to end this cycle is because of my vision, i think i lost 70% of my vision at night, i am absolutely blind and can't drive at all, it’s too dangerous. i believe its best to run S4 in the summer where the day is longer, or daylight is longer, but of course that’s up to the individual. a friend of mine saw me today an complemented me about how thin I looked, also commented on how lean i looked. So these are the reasons i think i will continue and finish up my 4 bottles of S4. Not sure though, but i'll keep you posted.

Everything feel normal except the vision of course.

----------


## tballz

You gotta do the last bottle of sarms now. The finish line is in sight unless, of course, it's nighttime then it's not. :Smilie: 

I would keep going.

You really can't drive at night? You can see headlights right?

----------


## bass

> You gotta do the last bottle of sarms now. The finish line is in sight unless, of course, it's nighttime then it's not.
> 
> I would keep going.
> 
> You really can't drive at night? You can see headlights right?


yes i can see headlights, but nothing on the sides, so if someone decided to cuts me off o won't see it until its in front of me. just the other night i was driving and my wife said "wow, did you see that bike on the side road?" i was like what bike! also the lights hurt when its aiming at my eyes. i will continue, in fact i just started the fourth bottle, it should last me 10 days or so.

Last night was my chest day, i did okay but not as i expected, my chest is just started to get sore, but very light at this point.

----------


## bass

Just finished triceps workout, it went really well, better than last time but no increase in weights, just a great strong workout with lots of stamina. I think I was feeling weak the last few days due to a bug, I had a minor runny nose so that might have been the reason for my weak chest workout. Today I felt 100% strong and full of energy. So far only the only problem is the vision, everything else is normal. Tomorrow is cardio only.

----------


## bigpapabuff

WOW!!! thank you so much for this journal, i have been looking for this kind of SARMs S4 experience. Lots of very useful information. Looks like you had some very amazing results, looks like you lost some weight, definitely increased definition and gained some muscle. I have been reading a lot of good things about sarms, this may have pushed me over the edge to buying it. Thanks again for all you hard work, very much appreciated. And did I read that the ARR SARMs S4 is 99% pure, that's a very high number. Much better than I expected.

----------


## bass

> WOW!!! thank you so much for this journal, i have been looking for this kind of SARMs S4 experience. Lots of very useful information. Looks like you had some very amazing results, looks like you lost some weight, definitely increased definition and gained some muscle. I have been reading a lot of good things about sarms, this may have pushed me over the edge to buying it. Thanks again for all you hard work, very much appreciated. And did I read that the ARR SARMs S4 is 99% pure, that's a very high number. Much better than I expected.


you are welcome bigpapabuff, and yes you read it right, its 99%. actually i am decreasing the dose back to 100mgs per day, i think its so potent its making my night vision much worse and no change in strength or stamina, i think with ARR S4 will be a waste to do more than 100mgs a day, but this is yet to be seen, so Ill keep experimenting and report back.

----------


## endus

Nice thread Bass - got me to come out from long time lurker to a poster and that's saying a lot.

I have been following your progress and I have a question...

- How much of this progress do you think is due to the S4 vs if you were just doing dieting alone?

The reason why I ask is that I've been doing pretty much exact same thing - without any gear and am quite amaze that we have a nearly same progress (I'm 44). My body, the fat deposit from before/after are nearly identical. You do have 1 or 1 1/2 month head start but I would say nearly identical progress.

I'm curios as to how much of this is due to the S4 (including placebo effect) vs just dieting alone with same intensity training.

By the way, I'm doing my dieting/training so I could get to a reasonable fat level for a Test E cycle (already got all the pre/during/post cycle gears). I will be starting my fist cycle in January but I wouldn't mind delaying that if I could get to 12% or less BF, which I guess is more acceptable than 15%. Cheers.

----------


## bass

endus, i am flattered that my log gave you a reason to post, and i am glad you did. when i train i get myself ready mentally, so placebo effect are minimal since i push hard to motivate myself. i think the S4 has increased my strength by 15-20%, it helped with loosing fat and maintaining my hard earned muscles. if you look at the last two photos i posted you will see a huge difference in just two months! i have been lifting heavy since the beginning of this year, and dieting since May 10th.

before S4 i wasn't able to get sore anymore no matter what i did, this is why i needed something to help me get to the next level, and i believe S4 did it.

----------


## endus

> endus, i am flattered that my log gave you a reason to post, and i am glad you did. when i train i get myself ready mentally, so placebo effect are minimal since i push hard to motivate myself. i think the S4 has increased my strength by 15-20%, it helped with loosing fat and maintaining my hard earned muscles. if you look at the last two photos i posted you will see a huge difference in just two months! i have been lifting heavy since the beginning of this year, and dieting since May 10th.
> 
> before S4 i wasn't able to get sore anymore no matter what i did, this is why i needed something to help me get to the next level, and i believe S4 did it.


I've just ordered 2 vial. 

I hope this will help with recovery as that is my biggest concern - I would like to shorten the recovery cycle. Have you noticed any effect on your recovery? 

Also, did it affect your endurance? Do you do any running or Cycling?

Thanks

----------


## bass

The best biceps workout ever, I figured out how to lift more weights without using my wrist. As you know I have inner tennis elbow on my right hand, and its been limiting me from lifting more weights. So I bought two ankle straps and strapped them on my wrists (bypassing my hand and joint), this way I dont have to use the injured tendon. I was able to add 4 plates 10 lbs each and did cable curls, then I put on my wrist straps which has a hook to help ease the pressure to my wrist, and was able to do straight bar curls and dumbbells. Ive never seen my biceps so pumped, as if they were going to explode. 

Okay, Ill let you in on something here. As you know Ive been experimenting with my last bottle of S4, I took a break for two days and just took my first dose after workout, Ill continue my dose at 100mgs per day until the bottle is gone. I will split the dose to two 50mgs, one after workout and one in the morning after cardio. Here is a photo I just took, it doesnt show the actual definition, but you can clearly see the size has increased, in real life my bicep looks more defined.

PS. I am still at 199 pounds as of this morning.

----------


## bass

Excellent shoulder and legs workout today, increased the weights by 10% all around and felt great. I must mention that I am taking supplements for joints as well, so maybe the combination of both is beneficial. Tomorrow is rest day, cardio only. But after tomorrow is chest day, this is the day where I can accurately measure if there is any difference in strength and stamina. I’ll keep you posted.

----------


## liftsmore

Biceps look more full. Very nice.

----------


## bass

> Biceps look more full. Very nice.


that and my forearms as well...

----------


## D7M

good work, Bass. 

and kudos on wearing the scapular, don't see much of them these days.

----------


## bass

> good work, Bass. 
> 
> and kudos on wearing the scapular, don't see much of them these days.


Thanks D7M, i cant do without it...it has saved me from many thing, and probably has from being on S4!!!

----------


## bass

Okay everyone!

I am done with S4, I had to cut it short, I still have half bottle left but I think I had enough. Today I started my PCT, and will continue for two weeks, then will do a blood test. I did chest workout today and again I never felt my chest so pumped and hard. I will keep reporting if things come up, if not then I’ll see you guys in 3-4 weeks with my blood test. Thanks everyone for your support and interest. Please feel free to ask whatever questions you have, I’ll be more than happy to answer them.

----------


## Okinawa_Power

Why half a bottle left and your not finishing it? Also what does your PCT look like? Thanks...

----------


## bass

i completed 6 weeks, and i don't want to overdo it. PCT is Clomid 25 mgs a day, and Nolva 20 mgs a day for two weeks on both.

----------


## bass

one more before and after, just want you guys to see that there is a difference in fat loss, the before is about a week before i started S4, and the after is today.

----------


## Okinawa_Power

> one more before and after, just want you guys to see that there is a difference in fat loss, the before is about a week before i started S4, and the after is today.



The main reason I am getting S4 is because you said it helped with Joint Pain. Do you stil believe this to be true? I plan on running it with a DS so I need my joints to be good to go.....

----------


## bass

> The main reason I am getting S4 is because you said it helped with Joint Pain. Do you stil believe this to be true? I plan on running it with a DS so I need my joints to be good to go.....


i believe it did, i couldn't do chest flys but during the cycle i tried it and i was able to, my elbow also is getting better everyday. i have to go back and read to see how far into S4 i was before i did flys, but i think maybe two weeks into it. i also take joint supplements which i think it helps.

----------


## endus

> one more before and after, just want you guys to see that there is a difference in fat loss, the before is about a week before i started S4, and the after is today.


Very nice! Let us know about your PCT and blood work.

I've just started mine yesterdays and I'll keeping my dosage at 50mg per day. I want to see if 50mg is enough to get similar experience as yours. I also want to run the cycle for 10-12 weeks, so hopefully this dosage will alleviate some of the vision problems. I'll try it for 1 month and if I don't feel anything, then I'll just increase the dosage and shorten the cycle length.

I'll post my result starting in few weeks.

One question, did you noticed any libido/erection/morning wood improvements?

----------


## bass

> Very nice! Let us know about your PCT and blood work.
> 
> I've just started mine yesterdays and I'll keeping my dosage at 50mg per day. I want to see if 50mg is enough to get similar experience as yours. I also want to run the cycle for 10-12 weeks, so hopefully this dosage will alleviate some of the vision problems. I'll try it for 1 month and if I don't feel anything, then I'll just increase the dosage and shorten the cycle length.
> 
> I'll post my result starting in few weeks.
> 
> One question, did you noticed any libido/erection/morning wood improvements?


good, i'll be following your log...

as for libido, i didn't noticed anything different, like i said in previous posts, i am horny as is, i don't think there is room for improvement!!! one thing for sure, it didn't suffer, even know that i am of S4 for few days.

----------


## BIG SMURPH

> i believe it did, i couldn't do chest flys but during the cycle i tried it and i was able to, my elbow also is getting better everyday. i have to go back and read to see how far into S4 i was before i did flys, but i think maybe two weeks into it. i also take joint supplements which i think it helps.


Wow, super informative thread and great job. Im just getting back into working out after several years off due to several major injuries/surgeries. I had no plans for a cycle of anything but S4 is now definately a possibility after reading thru here. The help with joint pain is the biggest attraction for me, right now even if I do a moderate workout my joints feel like I went all out the next day. 
Congrats on the gains.

----------


## tballz

endus, definitely keep us posted.

Bass, you did a great job...in your workouts and posting this log....thank you a 1000 times.

----------


## endus

> good, i'll be following your log...
> 
> as for libido, i didn't noticed anything different, like i said in previous posts, i am horny as is, i don't think there is room for improvement!!! one thing for sure, it didn't suffer, even know that i am of S4 for few days.


Haha, good for you. Unfortunately for me, I definitely do need help and was even thinking about going into TRT for that purpose (hey we all got reason)  :Smilie:

----------


## bass

thanks guys, just wanted to report about my vision, no improvements so far, the moon was so bright last night according to my wife, she said the whole room was lit, well i couldn't see a thing, i couldn't even see where the window was, that’s how blind i am at night. i will report as to when my vision will go back to normal, i hope...

----------


## SemiEight

> thanks guys, just wanted to report about my vision, no improvements so far, the moon was so bright last night according to my wife, she said the whole room was lit, well i couldn't see a thing, i couldn't even see where the window was, thats how blind i am at night. i will report as to when my vision will go back to normal, i hope...



I'm pretty sure I read that it takes longer than just 3 days for some so I'm sure you will be fine.

----------


## bass

yes, i read it could take up to 10 days, we'll see...

----------


## liftsmore

bass when you getting your blood work done?

----------


## bass

a week after i am done with my PCT, 18 days or so from now...

----------


## endus

I'm curious - why did you take 100mg per day (I think you went up to 150 at one point?). Or Jumpman taking 175mg per day.

Was there a reason for specific amount?

----------


## bass

> I'm curious - why did you take 100mg per day (I think you went up to 150 at one point?). Or Jumpman taking 175mg per day.
> 
> Was there a reason for specific amount?


my reason was because it didn't make any difference going higher amounts, it only made the vision problem worse, there was no increase in strength or stamina. so in my opinion it will be waste of money to go higher than 100 per day, and gentler on your vision.

----------


## bass

i like to mention that last night was the first time i could see the window, but not when i look at it directly, i have to turn away then i can barley see it on the side of my eye, also the tinted lights color is starting to go away slowly.

Did a great biceps workout yesterday, no loss in strength or stamina so far, my arms looked more defined and bigger, so far so good.

----------


## endus

> my reason was because it didn't make any difference going higher amounts, it only made the vision problem worse, there was no increase in strength or stamina. so in my opinion it will be waste of money to go higher than 100 per day, and gentler on your vision.


I meant, why 100mg, instead of 50mg or 25mg. I wasn't sure if there was a reason.

I'm keeping mine at 50mg to see if there's any effect. If I get the night vision thing and there's effect, then I may even bump it down to 25mg to see if that is enough. Just trying to see what works and what don't. Thanks

----------


## tballz

There's another log on a different board where the guy is doing 10mg ed. He says he's getting results.

----------


## bass

> I meant, why 100mg, instead of 50mg or 25mg. I wasn't sure if there was a reason.
> 
> I'm keeping mine at 50mg to see if there's any effect. If I get the night vision thing and there's effect, then I may even bump it down to 25mg to see if that is enough. Just trying to see what works and what don't. Thanks


i guess i didn't have patience, i took 50 for about a week then went up to 100, it may very well worked the same with 50. and like Tballz said, i wouldn't be surprised if 10 would have some effects as well. the effects are not small, they are very noticeable, so you will know whether the 50 is working for you or not, if not then go up a little every week until you reach your maximum dose.

----------


## SemiEight

bass thats great that you have no loss in strength, and actually look even better! Glad your vision seems to be improving too. 

I am at 50mg each day. 10mg? Wow thats low, I thought i was low

----------


## endus

> i guess i didn't have patience, i took 50 for about a week then went up to 100, it may very well worked the same with 50. and like Tballz said, i wouldn't be surprised if 10 would have some effects as well. the effects are not small, they are very noticeable, so you will know whether the 50 is working for you or not, if not then go up a little every week until you reach your maximum dose.


I hear ya - I want to up my dosage so badly, the temptation is so great. Still I want to stick with this dosage because I want to keep this going for at least 8 week, better 12 weeks. Even 12 weeks go too fast when you're feeling so good. 

Tballz, can you pm me the link?

Forgot, I'm splitting my dose into 3 servings. 1ml = 50mg - so I take 1/4ml in the morning, 1/2 ml for afternoon workout and 1/4ml before going to bed. The timing is based on what I read, about the half life being 8 hours - is that correct, anyone?

----------


## SemiEight

> The timing is based on what I read, about the half life being 8 hours - is that correct, anyone?


I read alot of places that the half life is 4hours. 8 hours would be great but I don't think thats right. Where did you read that?

----------


## bass

i read half life was about 4-6 hours. but this brings an interesting question maybe a stupid questions because i am not a chemist, if half life is 4, 6 or 8 hours, why doest it take 10-15 days to get your vision back to normal? doesn’t this suggest that it is still active in the body for days?

----------


## endus

It was one of the article sited here but can't find it again - it might of been 4 hours but somehow 8 hour stuck - old age does that  :Smilie:  As for vision restoration, only thing I could think of it is accumulation?

I do have to say, I had one of the more intense workout ever tonight. It was my shoulder/trap day and my normal weight of 120x10 shoulder press was not enough and had to go up another 20lb. It might of been a fluke as I've just changed my routine (sling shot) where rest period is longer. I'll wait till evidence is bit more concrete and/or repeatable - its only been 5 days so far. I'll chuck this into placebo effect.

----------


## SemiEight

> i read half life was about 4-6 hours. but this brings an interesting question maybe a stupid questions because i am not a chemist, if half life is 4, 6 or 8 hours, why doest it take 10-15 days to get your vision back to normal? doesnt this suggest that it is still active in the body for days?


bass, I would assume its because of the binding going on. The eyes must have receptors or something and whatever is active in this stuff is binding to them. That would take longer to get rid of then the active S4 in your system. And half life is sort of confusing too. The way I inderstand it is after 4 hours, it is only 50% still there. Then after another 4 hours its half of 50, so 25% still there. And so on....

----------


## bass

well my vision is doing exactly the reverse, now i can see where the window and patio door is clearly but not when I look at them directly. t its nice to see my vision is coming back. the yellow tinted color is still there but not as severe...

----------


## STnewbie

Patent 6,569,896 (http://www.google.com/patents?id=zmS...BAJ&dq=6569896) shows that the half-life of SARMs to be about 6 hours in dogs. I saw another study *(I am looking for the link and will post it when I can)* that showed the half-life in rats to be around 500 minutes (just over 8 hours).

Regardless, it is apparent in both studies that nearer the time of ingestion (or shortly thereafter) the concentration of S-4 would be most prevelant in your system. (Within the first 100 minutes).

Therefore, I believe it would be easy to conclude that this should be taken pre-work out. This would allow for the proper 'pump' during work out, and sufficient blood concentration afterward to help with recovery.

Its very interesting to note that SARMs seem to have a much more lasting effect in females.

Note: In the introduction, SARMs are referenced for use in testosterone therapy , etc... That isn't what is interesting. What is interesting is that it is also referenced as a male 'contraceptive'

----------


## bass

i just realized the blood work order my dr. requested only checking for liver and kidney activates, but i also want to check for test levels, i asked him and he said we already did one and there is no need for another. can i order a blood test from a lab myself? i mean i'll pay for it my self bypassing my insurance. and is there a lab that have a technician that comes to your home or work and take a blood sample?

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## endus

You could use one of these service - http://www.privatemdlabs.com/lp/Male...ne_Testing.php

or 

http://healthonelabs.com/user/category.php

----------


## bass

> You could use one of these service - http://www.privatemdlabs.com/lp/Male...ne_Testing.php
> 
> or 
> 
> http://healthonelabs.com/user/category.php


thanks Endus, are these good sources or you just did a search on the net? i just want to make sure i use a reputable lab. thanks again.

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## bass

never mind, i see the one lab i use all the time, so I'll give them a call. any recommendations as to what to test for? Testosterone level, liver, kidneys...anything else?

----------


## bass

how about these two packages?

http://healthonelabs.com/user/category.php?catid=4
http://healthonelabs.com/user/productdetail.php?pid=61

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## endus

that looks good. I've never used Health one as I live in NJ (can't do test with NJ address). I did use Private MD for my last cycle (while back) as they don't require NJ address - I just had to do the blood drawing in PA.

With PrivateMD, they post everything online in 2 days. I used to do 2 to 3 test while on cycle to see where I'm at. With them, I only did Free/total testosterone count. For rest, I just went to my doctor every 6 months.

----------


## bass

Thanks Endus, here is what my dr. ordered,

http://healthonelabs.com/user/search...earch&prod=bmp

is there a need to do this posted in my previous post?

http://healthonelabs.com/user/category.php?catid=4

----------


## bass

this is my last photo Ill be posting here just for comparison sake, i worked my chest today and went just as good as last time.

----------


## Okinawa_Power

> this is my last photo Ill be posting here just for comparison sake, i worked my chest today and went just as good as last time.


Bass you look really great!!!! Keep up the good work and think about doing a DS/PH cycle......If you liked the strength gains that S4 gave you will would love what Tren /Stane could do.......Think about it....

----------


## bass

Thanks Bro. i would love to do some serious gear one day, i am just not ready yet, still have lots of fat and only been lifting for less than a year. i love to look you up for some help when the time comes though.

----------


## Okinawa_Power

> Thanks Bro. i would love to do some serious gear one day, i am just not ready yet, still have lots of fat and only been lifting for less than a year. i love to look you up for some help when the time comes though.



When you are ready I will be here!!!! Keep lifting those weights you are an inspiration to all of us over the age of 35!!!!!!

----------


## Bren

do you know your starting and up to date bmi?

----------


## charlesriley

is pct required after a sarm??

----------


## bass

> When you are ready I will be here!!!! Keep lifting those weights you are an inspiration to all of us over the age of 35!!!!!!


thanks bro...

----------


## bass

> do you know your starting and up to date bmi?


never got it checked professionally, but from what Ive seen based on estimates, i was 235 and not whole lot of muscle, so i am estimating BF about 35%-40%, now some members are estimating it at 20% or less based on the photos. You can go to my photo albums and see the diet photos just to get an idea.

----------


## bass

> is pct required after a sarm??


no PCT is required, but that depends on the individual. i am doing PCT for two weeks...Phate who cycled at 225mgs a day didn't do PCT...

----------


## Okinawa_Power

I will be conducting PCT but only because I am taking Tren /Stane....I will do the following:

Clomid: 100/100/50/50
Nolva: 40/40/40/20

----------


## endus

Just read a thread from another board and this person is saying that S4 shut him down hard. He mentioned acne, shrinked teste, etc. I would do a PCT for few weeks at least. Probably Nolva is all you need.

----------


## Bren

> never got it checked professionally, but from what Ive seen based on estimates, i was 235 and not whole lot of muscle, so i am estimating BF about 35%-40%, now some members are estimating it at 20% or less based on the photos. You can go to my photo albums and see the diet photos just to get an idea.


sweet progress.

----------


## SemiEight

> Just read a thread from another board and this person is saying that S4 shut him down hard. He mentioned acne, shrinked teste, etc. I would do a PCT for few weeks at least. Probably Nolva is all you need.


Shut him down HARD? Sounds like he took something else, not S4. Poor guy

----------


## Okinawa_Power

> Shut him down HARD? Sounds like he took something else, not S4. Poor guy


Yes I agree. S4 should not shut you down....Guy either wasn't taking S4 or just doesn't know what he is talking about.

----------


## endus

Yes, this one particular gent is saying it does suppress HTPA. I could PM the post if anyone wish (this is on paid board).

At this point, its all hearsay since there's no concrete proof (blood test). I guess we'll know when Bass gets post his blood work. Still I would think it would be a good thing to have your PCT/SERM materials on hand - just in case.

----------


## bass

as of last night my vision is back to normal, and still doing heavy lifting, no strength has been lost so far, i am still losing weight (fat), for the last three days I’ve been weighing at 197 pounds...

----------


## SemiEight

> At this point, its all hearsay since there's no concrete proof (blood test). I guess we'll know when Bass gets post his blood work. Still I would think it would be a good thing to have your PCT/SERM materials on hand - just in case.



PHATE had a blood test. You should check out his log.

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## SemiEight

> as of last night my vision is back to normal, and still doing heavy lifting, no strength has been lost so fat, i am still losing weight (fat), for the last three days Ive been weighing at 197 pounds...


Glad to hear it bass

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## endus

Excellent! It must feel great to not have the night/tint vision issue. Let us know if there are any changes to see how long it take (if any).

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## bass

yes, but still something weird still there, as soon as i wake up and when i open my eyes i see three shadows, one on each side and one in front. It’s creepy a little because the shadows on the sides look like little demons wearing black hooded capes...holy shit!

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## endus

LOL - ghost of SARM.

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## charlesriley

so since the sarm affects the muscle fibers actual receptors that means other muscles like smooth muscle and non skeletal muscles 2 right?? is this potentially dangerous?? 

i am seriosly considering taking a sarm and anti estrogen or a anti arom at the same time, whats yalls thoughts on this??? might throw in the few boxes of actual brand name legit market source nutropin pens i have as well after research is done

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## toothache

> so since the sarm affects the muscle fibers actual receptors that means other muscles like smooth muscle and non skeletal muscles 2 right?? is this potentially dangerous?? 
> 
> i am seriosly considering taking a sarm and anti estrogen or a anti arom at the same time, whats yalls thoughts on this??? might throw in the few boxes of actual brand name legit market source nutropin pens i have as well after research is done


Why are you taking an anti-estrogen or an anti arom with sarms ?

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## charlesriley

> Why are you taking an anti-estrogen or an anti arom with sarms?


i know sarms only effect androgen receptors and not testosterone itself but if you take an anti arom and sarm your free natty testosterone will be really high. that combined with better recptor signaling is positive.

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## Okinawa_Power

> i know sarms only effect androgen receptors and not testosterone itself but if you take an anti arom and sarm your free natty testosterone will be really high. that combined with better recptor signaling is positive.


That is an interesting concept. I might add .5 of letro a day until I finish my cycle. I will let you know how it goes.....I will be posting pictures next Wednesday to gage my progress....

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## charlesriley

> That is an interesting concept. I might add .5 of letro a day until I finish my cycle. I will let you know how it goes.....I will be posting pictures next Wednesday to gage my progress....


yes plz do , thanks will check for sure

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## toothache

Bass, have you been keeping your gains?

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## bass

So far yes, but i haven't worked out in a week because i am doing the blood test tomorrow. i did feel like shit when i stopped working out, my whole body was in pain, not sure what the heck that was! Anyway, i am getting the jitters now, can't wait to hit the gym tomorrow night...

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## Okinawa_Power

> yes, but still something weird still there, as soon as i wake up and when i open my eyes i see three shadows, one on each side and one in front. Its creepy a little because the shadows on the sides look like little demons wearing black hooded capes...holy shit!



Bass I have now started seeing the little demons also!!! When you wake up only though.....Strange.....

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## bass

> Bass I have now started seeing the little demons also!!! When you wake up only though.....Strange.....


aha...so i am not imagining, creepy eh!

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## Okinawa_Power

> aha...so i am not imagining, creepy eh!


Yes I try to blink them away and it only makes it worse!!!! I don't know what the hell it is!!!!!! Maybe we are going to hell for using S4!!!!!! LMFAO!!!!

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## bass

Shit, time for confession....

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## Okinawa_Power

> Shit, time for confession....


At least we will go to hell with some muscles!!!! Well at least you will!!!!!

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## bass

LOL, then we can beat the HELL out of the devil, eh!

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## endus

Bass, is your vision back to normal? No more tint, ghost, night vision, etc? How many days did it take to get rid of it completely? Thanks.

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## bass

yes its back 100% normal, i think it took about two weeks to get rid of all the vision problems. 

did the blood test Friday, now i am waiting to get the results, i'll post them as soon as i get them.

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## Okinawa_Power

> yes its back 100% normal, i think it took about two weeks to get rid of all the vision problems. 
> 
> did the blood test Friday, now i am waiting to get the results, i'll post them as soon as i get them.



Bass I am glad your vision is back to normal!!! I am 100% confident that your blood work is going to be good to go!!!!

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## bass

WOW, am i reading this correctly? my test went up...

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## bass

> Bass I am glad your vision is back to normal!!! I am 100% confident that your blood work is going to be good to go!!!!


Big O, it seems you are correct...

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## endus

> WOW, am i reading this correctly? my test went up...


Excellent! Do you have the after free also? Probably a better gauge?

By the way, you had a good level to begin with - I'm jealous. I'm thinking that S4 probably didn't do anything to your level but perhaps PCT did (elevated T level and suppressed Estrogen)???

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## bass

you are probably correct, but the good news is that S4 didn't suppress my test. i was hoping to get the free test but i guess i ordered the wrong package, i am still waiting for my Basic Metabolic Panel blood test results...

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## Phate

> WOW, am i reading this correctly? my test went up...


did you just get total test run? the problem is that total test isn't the best gauge 

btw, i haven't been able to get on here that much due to school, can you tell me how you cycled the S4(dosage and duration)

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## bass

hey Phate, good to see you buddy.

first week at 75mgs split into three times a day
the rest of 5 weeks 100mgs split into 4 times a day

i did one week of 150mgs but that didn't do anything so i went back to 100mgs. i'll try to do another blood test...

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## endus

> hey Phate, good to see you buddy.
> 
> first week at 75mgs split into three times a day
> the rest of 5 weeks 100mgs split into 4 times a day
> 
> i did one week of 150mgs but that didn't do anything so i went back to 100mgs. i'll try to do another blood test...


If you're going to do it again to get free test level, see if you could include LH and Cortisol level (if you already have that for your base test).

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## bass

okay...

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## toothache

What I've read on sarms , 50mg ed should be sufficient and this would cut down the few sides it has.

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## endus

> What I've read on sarms, 50mg ed should be sufficient and this would cut down the few sides it has.


I don't think so - All I've seen, including me at 50mg had same sides as higher dosages. And for me, strength didn't kick in until I've up my dosage.

At 50mg, all I had was the side with none of the benefit. As soon as I've kick it up to 100mg, I saw my strength go up noticeably...

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## endus

> hey bass great log!! and thanks for the informative pm!
> i was wondering do you think that 50mg of Sarms would be effective everyday or should i do it for 100mg?
> the reason for the 50mg is becaus i want ot go on atleast a 8week cycle and if i buy two bottles that would last the run!
> also what do you think sarms results if cycled properly witht he adequate calories and protein are compared to a test cycle?
> Thanks alot


Bass could tell you otherwise but its very difficult to do 8 weeks on S4. The loss of night vision and other side get bit too much by you hit your 4th week. While strength gain is nice, the vision and subsequent mental health due to the side is hard to maintain for that long.

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## bass

> hey bass great log!! and thanks for the informative pm!
> i was wondering do you think that 50mg of Sarms would be effective everyday or should i do it for 100mg?
> the reason for the 50mg is becaus i want ot go on atleast a 8week cycle and if i buy two bottles that would last the run!
> also what do you think sarms results if cycled properly witht he adequate calories and protein are compared to a test cycle?
> Thanks alot


Endus is correct on everything he said, but if you are not planning to drive at night for 8 weeks then it shouldnt be a problem. i know this stuff is expensive, but i highly recommend to plan for a higher dose especially if your doing S4 only. the results with a proper diet can help you burn fat and gain muscles, it did for me.

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## elpropiotorvic

Bass u da man !!! Good log 


Just a question in there ... Is it maybe that It doesn't work at 50mg because nobody gives it time to ?

Has somebody waited 4 or even 5 weeks at 50 mg to see what happens?

Is t maybe something good to do a loading phase of s4

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## bass

> Bass u da man !!! Good log 
> 
> 
> Just a question in there ... Is it maybe that It doesn't work at 50mg because nobody gives it time to ?
> 
> Has somebody waited 4 or even 5 weeks at 50 mg to see what happens?
> 
> Is t maybe something good to do a loading phase of s4


good question, but most of us have no patience  :Smilie:

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## endus

> good question, but most of us have no patience


+1  :Smilie:

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## toothache

> I don't think so - All I've seen, including me at 50mg had same sides as higher dosages. And for me, strength didn't kick in until I've up my dosage.
> 
> At 50mg, all I had was the side with none of the benefit. As soon as I've kick it up to 100mg, I saw my strength go up noticeably...


How long did you wait before you increased the dosage? There's a log out there where the guy is doing 10mg with results. I'm sure the results aren't great but nonetheless results.

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## endus

> How long did you wait before you increased the dosage? There's a log out there where the guy is doing 10mg with results. I'm sure the results aren't great but nonetheless results.


Its on my log - I believe on my 8-9th day?

Edit: let me quality that - I've up my dosage just to see what happen. I almost stopped at that point due to the side - so I figured few more days won't matter at 100mg. Then I started to feel bit more strength ... and that motivated me to stay on longer. Is it possible that it would of worked at 50mg? Perhaps but I wasn't willing to find out and only have negative side to show for it. There's only so much info available, I guess we're learning as we go.

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## Okinawa_Power

> you are probably correct, but the good news is that S4 didn't suppress my test. i was hoping to get the free test but i guess i ordered the wrong package, i am still waiting for my Basic Metabolic Panel blood test results...


That is great news Bass!!!! I am glad everything is good to go for you!!!

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## Okinawa_Power

> Bass u da man !!! Good log 
> 
> 
> Just a question in there ... Is it maybe that It doesn't work at 50mg because nobody gives it time to ?
> 
> Has somebody waited 4 or even 5 weeks at 50 mg to see what happens?
> 
> Is t maybe something good to do a loading phase of s4


elpropiotorvic,

I would love to answer that question for you, however I am taking some other stuff with my cycle that increases my strength so I can't give you an accurate assessment. I will tell you that S4 has kept my BF down this bulking cycle and has improved my joints. I am almost done...I have 10 more days and I will be finished.

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## Bren

> wat do you guys think s4 compares to test? because at the end of the day thats the whole point of takin it right!?


i'd like to know how you guys would compare s4 to test as well.

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## elpropiotorvic

Fvck we oughta sign for lab rats.... Things that sarms should get tested for...

Collagen synthesis
testosterone suppression at diff doses 50. 100. 150
curve of effects at the same doses for 8 weeks 
and a way to stop the bloody vision to fvck up while on sarms

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## Little Herc

Has anyone heard of anyones vision not returning to normal. The whole vision thing is kinda scary to me. I dont want messed up eays in 10 years. Main reason why im gonna keep my doses down to 20 to 25mg.

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## bass

finally got my basic blood test, slight improvement but not enough. here is before and after S4 cycle.

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## tballz

> Has anyone heard of anyones vision not returning to normal. The whole vision thing is kinda scary to me. I dont want messed up eays in 10 years. Main reason why im gonna keep my doses down to 20 to 25mg.


Nope never heard of it not coming back to normal. So at that dosage are you not experiencing any side effects? Are you getting results?

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## endus

> Nope never heard of it not coming back to normal. So at that dosage are you not experiencing any side effects? Are you getting results?


Ditto!

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## adam15425

> you are probably correct, but the good news is that S4 didn't suppress my test. i was hoping to get the free test but i guess i ordered the wrong package, i am still waiting for my Basic Metabolic Panel blood test results...


I have been hearing that it will suppress test in higher doses. I was thinking about running 40mg/day during my pct. DO you think this is a good idea? Not to hijack the thread but I have a dilemma that pertains to using S4

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=411160

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## bass

Adam, what you are doing there is way over my head, but to answer your question regarding S4, no one really knows. as you can see mine was not suppressed. However, Phate who ran it up to 225mgs ed, his blood test showed that his was suppresses slightly, i ran mine at 100mgs per day. you may also want to ask Endus, he is done with his S4 cycle and will be doing a blood test to see where he’s at, i think.

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## charlesriley

hey bass, how your cycles of s4 been lately??

do you think throwing in aromoasin or letro would be benificial with a s4 or ineffectual?

also i say your pics a while back, do you have a recent pic compared to a before s4 pic?? i am ordering on ar-r now.....

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## charlesriley

anything you think i should know.... right now i am on a cycle of test prop and winny however my cycle ends in 6 weeks and my pct is going to be 2 weeks hcg and letro and nolva this has been a good pct for my brother in the past and we are alike. as soon as pct is over i am doing a s4 cycle.

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## bass

> anything you think i should know.... right now i am on a cycle of test prop and winny however my cycle ends in 6 weeks and my pct is going to be 2 weeks hcg and letro and nolva this has been a good pct for my brother in the past and we are alike. as soon as pct is over i am doing a s4 cycle.


if you can get Test why bather with S4? in my opinion S4 is good for first timers and for cutting...

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## bass

> hey bass, how your cycles of s4 been lately??
> 
> do you think throwing in aromoasin or letro would be benificial with a s4 or ineffectual?
> 
> also i say your pics a while back, do you have a recent pic compared to a before s4 pic?? i am ordering on ar-r now.....


sorry i have no experience with aromoasin or letro...

as for my pic, i am sure i still look the same, but because of my injury i am only cutting at this point, but once i am done Ill post my results along with pics. BTW, the reason i injured my self is because i was lifting way too heavy than my tendons can handle, basically the strength i gained from S4 still there and i don't think it will go away.

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## endus

Becareful there with those heavy weight. I'm also running into same situation - luckily I'm able to work through most of them with only minor pain.

I'm still gaining strength even now. I'm up to 9 plate leg press and 3 1/2 plate for squats. After I got my vision back - I'm way more motivated and working out extra hard  :Smilie:

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## charlesriley

> if you can get Test why bather with S4? in my opinion S4 is good for first timers and for cutting...


military.. and dont want to worry about pct if i am overseas or deployed in a war zone.

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## charlesriley

i just joined btw, and no im not a teen. i think your progress is awesome and i respect the work you are puttin in

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## bass

haha...okay bro, i understand. well the S4 will definitely give you strength and burn fat, but be careful, if they send you out on a night mission you'll be screwed, you won't be able to see anything. Thanks for your service BTW...

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## charlesriley

thanks for the recognition and the log as well, well i would be taking a dose that would be effective but maybe one low enough to avoid that side.....i will take supps to support eye funtion. i have 15/20 so i will take lutiene and research otc supps for eye health and funtionality, think that would help??

btw whats the dosage range in your exp and/or research????

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## bass

started at 75mgs per day, then 100, then 150 for one week then back to 100. i only wanted to see if 150 makes any difference, nothing in strength, only vision side got worse, so in my opinion 100mgs per day is the best, at least for me...

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## charlesriley

ok will note. will start with 60 probly and move up to 100.

what was it like anabolically on 75?

and vision like on 100??

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## Jags77

> started at 75mgs per day, then 100, then 150 for one week then back to 100. i only wanted to see if 150 makes any difference, nothing in strength, only vision side got worse, so in my opinion 100mgs per day is the best, at least for me...


just wanted to pop in and say thanks bass for logging your results and findings on this. definitely helpful to many of us considering S4. 

 :Thumps Up: 

i didn't notice in your log, but did you experience any allergic reactions at all such as hives or bumps? Was reading a few other threads and saw that Endus and Poundcake had problems with this.

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## bass

you are welcome...no other sides for me, only vision problems...

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## smegs

> WOW, am i reading this correctly? my test went up...




no you are wrong
your test levels decreased, the measurements are in different units 
indicative a mild suppression of free testosterone that tends to be common with people due to its mild androgenicity

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## adam15425

> no you are wrong
> your test levels decreased, the measurements are in different units 
> indicative a mild suppression of free testosterone that tends to be common with people due to its mild androgenicity


Ummmm NO! ....his total serum test levels were clearly higher ....both measurements were in nanograms per decilitre (ng/dL)
Pre 395 ng/dL
Post 423 ng/dL

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## endus

> Ummmm NO! ....his total serum test levels were clearly higher ....both measurements were in nanograms per decilitre (ng/dL)
> Pre 395 ng/dL
> Post 423 ng/dL


Did you start your cycle?

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## adam15425

> Did you start your cycle?


Not yet. Jan 17th. I'll keep everyone updated once I start

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## neverenuff21

Definitely lookin forward to that. Got me curious as I am on trt as it is.

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## MotoLifter

> as of last night my vision is back to normal, and still doing heavy lifting, no strength has been lost so far, i am still losing weight (fat), for the last three days Ive been weighing at 197 pounds...


lookin good man, definately much leaner than the first pics you posted. Nice work!

I'll see if i can get lion to put together an S4/shoe polish combo for you next time to help out with that santa goatee! haha  :7up:  just kiddin man  :BbAily: 

seriously though, those picks show some impressive results. 


Moto

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## bass

hey thanks Moto...one day I’ll get rid of my gray goatee when I lose my double chin!

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## tballz

> hey thanks Moto...one day Ill get rid of my gray goatee when I lose my double chin!


Ha..that's why i keep my goatee for the time being.

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## broken7

> How long did you wait before you increased the dosage? There's a log out there where the guy is doing 10mg with results. I'm sure the results aren't great but nonetheless results.


can you post the link ?

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## toothache

It was on another board. I will try to find it.

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## Marty_4

I'm ordering S4 before i go home from work and putting off my cycle till may after thsi report.

Do you run PCT after S4? Do you take teh amount of time off you were on?

Thouroughly enjoyed you're tread Bass.
Thanks and regards
Marty

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## Marty_4

Also is their any problem with running S4 with Liquid Clen or an ECA stack? Anyone know and DON't Do's with S4?
Cheers boys

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## AnimalJ

good read Bass, thanks for your log.

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## bass

you are welcome, also read my blood test thread, i believe it has something to do with S4...

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=420814

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## tballz

bump for a great log about sarms s-4

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## noon

Great read I'm glad you took the time to fill us in.

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## toobigforyou

Love this log!

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## NEO-OEN

Great Log, much apreciated!!

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## bsny84

Bass when I ran s4 i had the same problem it was like i was almost color blind but only at night and as soon as cycle ended and i was out it went right away i wouldnt worry about it to much should subside ...

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