# COMPETITIVE BODYBUILDING - POWERLIFTING - ATHLETICS & SPORTS > POWERLIFTING FORUM >  Whats up with Shirts...

## LeroyB

Sorry I do not know the power lifting scene at all. But saw some videos of dudes lifting with shirts or powershirts or something. 
That seems pretty lame - how did this get started and why does it continue?

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## Nooomoto

> Sorry I do not know the power lifting scene at all. But saw some videos of dudes lifting with shirts or powershirts or something. 
> That seems pretty lame - how did this get started and why does it continue?


It's lame to you because you aren't into powerlifting. There are two categories of lifts: raw and equipped. I personally choose not to lift with shirts (for now), but there comes a point in training where you will need the assistance of a suit or shirt during training to increase your raw lifts. Some choose to compete in equipped competitions, where shirts/suits are allowed. If you look at records, there are equipped records and raw records. They are different categories to suit the different tastes of different people. I have used a suit before, and I assure you the feeling is the same when you nail that massive deadlift you've been shooting for...suit or no suit.

Powerlifters are out to lift heavy, big numbers is the name of the game. It's a different world from bodybuilding. I understand bodybuilding and why people do it, it's just not my thing. I get stares from a lot of "body builders" (although the real ones in my gym understand what I'm doing) when I'm working out. Adversely, I stare at them when they get on a bench with a belt and straps on to press 255, or rack an incline machine with 8 plates...go figure.

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## LeroyB

Ya - But this is the point where I get lost.
Isn't using equipment the same as not actually lifting the weight.
I mean doesn't equipment defeat the purpose?
Sorry - I don't mean to hassle anyone about it. 
I am not a body builder I am in sports just by the way so I end up training across all the lines of body building, endurance, and power lifting. 

All in all seems like with "non - equipment" powerlifters would be pointing at the "equipment" people and going "Your Cheating".

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## graeme87

> Ya - But this is the point where I get lost.
> Isn't using equipment the same as not actually lifting the weight.
> I mean doesn't equipment defeat the purpose?
> Sorry - I don't mean to hassle anyone about it. 
> I am not a body builder I am in sports just by the way so I end up training across all the lines of body building, endurance, and power lifting. 
> 
> All in all seems like with "non - equipment" powerlifters would be pointing at the "equipment" people and going "Your Cheating".


I see your point and yes shirts do allow a much heavier weight to be lifted than what could be done raw. However, guys who lift big with shirts on lift big raw as well, they dont try to pass of or even compare shirted lifts with raw lifts. 
As was explained there are two separate events so guys with shirts are competing against guys with shirts not raw lifters so no one has an unfair advantage. 
I can see the argument that a raw lift is a much clearer picture of the athletes strength since it is not assisted were as with the shirted lift you cant tell exactly how much is due to the shirt and how much to the lifter. With that being said though I dont want to take anything away from shirted lifters.
Thats it only from a comparison point of view, shirts are a useful training tool as they help get the lifter used to handling heavier weights not to mention the safety aspects.

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## xephonics

I personally don't really get the point of competing with a suit or shirt, as using something that increases your lift seems weird to me (however I use AAS, so kinda close to the same I guess).

I guess to each their own, and some ppl just want the big numbers, and suits/shirts give those big numbers, even if it is not really a weight the person could lift on their own. I mean hell I can use a car jack and raise 4 tons. I am pumping the handle, so I am doing some work right? lol.

Yeah the car jack was a bit overboard lol, but it was a funny analogy :P

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## Doc.Sust

going to sum this up as quick as possible, you want to be one of the best, you have to use what the best uses to be competitive. i have competed both ways. when i competed raw with no equipment, i made the top 100 list at somewhere btwn number 50 and 60. i got as far as i could without the equipment and decided it was time to learn the gear(which is a challenge, it isnt that easy that you put on a magic shirt and press a ton, it takes a LOT more work than raw lifting, trust me) in recent time, i was ranked 5th in the top 100. big difference. compare it to any sport that equipment is used for performance. you wouldnt play baseball using a 2x4 rather than a bat, you wouldnt swim a race in regular trunks you would use the speed suit, swimmers cap and goggles. you do what it takes to be the best, if you dont do this, someone else will and you will be left in the dust.

on a side note, when i lifted raw, it wasnt that big. there really wasnt a place for it in the sport. if you lifted raw or equiped, you were all lumped together. now raw lifting has made a comeback, and i am glad to see this. just about every fed now offers raw and equiped lifting in the same meets where raw lifters compete against raw lifters and equiped compete against each other. they now keep raw records and top raw lifts for each year so lifters can see where they stand against others. this gives people a choice and i think it is great and wish it was this way when i competed raw.

raw lifting is simple, no equipment means a lot less hassle. a lot less shit you have to buy a lot easier to go to a contest. you dont need a giant group of people to train with or people to squeeze you into this tight fitting clothing that you can barely breathe in. draw backs of raw lifting, it kills your body, you are always battling injuries and beat up, training becomes a chore, and there are only so many ways one can train for this and it becomes monotonous. also, there is only so far one can go. human body does have limitations. the equiped lifitng gives you more support, less injured by small hampering aches and daily pain, however you are using so much heavier weight , you have to train right so you dont over tax your CNS and also have to be careful when using that much heavier weight that your form is pristine or you risk more serious injury. it is a crap shoot. training with the equip. IMO is more fun. there are a lot of different training options and different movements as well as methods that help the equiped lifter. i almost consider them 2 different sports, but reality, they are too similar to dissect them as separate. 

i have excelled at both, loved both, but i wouldnt in a million years go back to raw competition. just too much wear and tear on your body. for myself, it just isnt as much fun.

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## xephonics

that was a good sum-up of it  :Smilie:  thanks.

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## amcon

i dont know... i dont get it either - if i shave my legs to go faster in cycling or swiming i and "wearing" less, when i lift weights (i guess i do ever thing raw) i lift as much as i can and for the reps im shooting for

if i wore a shirt or some suit and lifted more weight yes i would lift more weight cuz of the shirt but would i get stronger? put on more muscle?

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## F4iGuy

I always found raw lifts more impressive. I never took into account the injury aspect of raw lifting. That would be brutal pushing max weights all the time. I still find the suits a bitt odd, but then again I'm into bodybuilding not powerlifting. I'm sure they find shaving/speedo's/tanning/posing odd lol.

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## Doc.Sust

> I'm sure they find shaving/speedo's/tanning/posing odd lol.


yes we think it is retarded.  :1laugh:

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## Doc.Sust

> i dont know... i dont get it either - if i shave my legs to go faster in cycling or swiming i and "wearing" less, when i lift weights (i guess i do ever thing raw) i lift as much as i can and for the reps im shooting for
> 
> if i wore a shirt or some suit and lifted more weight yes i would lift more weight cuz of the shirt but would i get stronger? put on more muscle?


you do get stronger however you dont gain crazy size. hypertrophy work is for size. both raw and equipped powerlifting arent done to put on size, we do what we do for strength.

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## Madmax209

Question for Doc. Sust - I noticed you switched to Overkill shirt. I heard only excellent comments about this shirt. Could you compare this shirt with other shirt you used before? Same question about suits - I see you use Boss now instead of Ace (but bot Boss briefs?), do you find Boss better than Ace?

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## Doc.Sust

> Question for Doc. Sust - I noticed you switched to Overkill shirt. I heard only excellent comments about this shirt. Could you compare this shirt with other shirt you used before? Same question about suits - I see you use Boss now instead of Ace (but bot Boss briefs?), do you find Boss better than Ace?


tough question, i will attempt to answer, 

the overkill shirt is awesome. it is really like a hybrid of the super phenom and rage x. 

the phenom didnt have stopping power, each time i got a handoff in the shirt, it felt like i was taking the weight raw, felt very heavy in my hands,it was easy to touch in, but if you didnt touch the right spot, the weight would come up slow, if you did hit the right spot the weight would fly up and there was carryover right through lockout, which i loved,

now with the rage, tons of stopping power, after hand off weight felt light, but once i would touch and press, there wasnt as much carryover through lockout like the phenom. the rage was hard to touch in. has a real tough groove. you really dont have much room for error to get the weight to touch

theoverkill works like this, great stopping power, tough to touch but there is a ton of caryover through lockout, best of both worlds. still havent mastered the shirt, but i have been hitting pr's every workout off boards.i have a lot to learn in this shirt, but i really like this shirt best. i still may give the phenom another shot, but i wouldnt ever consider using a rage again.


the boss suit, still havent mastered at all, suit isnt broken in, i needed a new suit since my metal suit was getting worn out. boss suit has a lot of stopping power. more than the ace did.

i am using ace briefs because they are new and i dont want to buy another pair, dont love or hate them, but they work.

i still pull in the ace, i like the cut of the suit for pulling. the front and the sides of the suit are lower than the boss so i can breathe easier getting to the bar, also the fact that the ace is so broken in, it doesnt f up my deadlift form. i tried to pull in the boss once and it just felt like crap. even with the straps down, i felt i couldnt grab the bar comfortable or keep good form. guys on my team pull in the ace and love it, i just havent been able to get it to work, i am kind of set in pulling in the ace and dont really want to change much since i pull so well in the suit.when i pull, i use the ace suit and i wear an old single ply marathon suit i use for briefs

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## Madmax209

Thanks Doc, really worth info. Could you give me the contact for guy from Overkill (Rudy?), the website seems to be not working...Thx

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## Doc.Sust

i think it is [email protected]

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## go4gold

I tried A squat suit and you can't even sit down in them. You need like an exra 100lbs to do a full squat. I just will never be impressed with equiped lifts. Raw all the way, that's why I like Olympic weightlifting. It's based purely on what the individuel can truely lift without aids. Raw powerlifting is also good. That's even why sprinters sometimes can't even break records with wind aided runs. I guess for training would be ok, but not compitition. I have seen those shirts add 150lbs+ to someones bench. Just my opinion.

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## bjpennnn

> going to sum this up as quick as possible, you want to be one of the best, you have to use what the best uses to be competitive. i have competed both ways. when i competed raw with no equipment, i made the top 100 list at somewhere btwn number 50 and 60. i got as far as i could without the equipment and decided it was time to learn the gear(which is a challenge, it isnt that easy that you put on a magic shirt and press a ton, it takes a LOT more work than raw lifting, trust me) in recent time, i was ranked 5th in the top 100. big difference. compare it to any sport that equipment is used for performance. you wouldnt play baseball using a 2x4 rather than a bat, you wouldnt swim a race in regular trunks you would use the speed suit, swimmers cap and goggles. you do what it takes to be the best, if you dont do this, someone else will and you will be left in the dust.
> 
> on a side note, when i lifted raw, it wasnt that big. there really wasnt a place for it in the sport. if you lifted raw or equiped, you were all lumped together. now raw lifting has made a comeback, and i am glad to see this. just about every fed now offers raw and equiped lifting in the same meets where raw lifters compete against raw lifters and equiped compete against each other. they now keep raw records and top raw lifts for each year so lifters can see where they stand against others. this gives people a choice and i think it is great and wish it was this way when i competed raw.
> 
> raw lifting is simple, no equipment means a lot less hassle. a lot less shit you have to buy a lot easier to go to a contest. you dont need a giant group of people to train with or people to squeeze you into this tight fitting clothing that you can barely breathe in. draw backs of raw lifting, it kills your body, you are always battling injuries and beat up, training becomes a chore, and there are only so many ways one can train for this and it becomes monotonous. also, there is only so far one can go. human body does have limitations. the equiped lifitng gives you more support, less injured by small hampering aches and daily pain, however you are using so much heavier weight , you have to train right so you dont over tax your CNS and also have to be careful when using that much heavier weight that your form is pristine or you risk more serious injury. it is a crap shoot. training with the equip. IMO is more fun. there are a lot of different training options and different movements as well as methods that help the equiped lifter. i almost consider them 2 different sports, but reality, they are too similar to dissect them as separate. 
> 
> i have excelled at both, loved both, but i wouldnt in a million years go back to raw competition. just too much wear and tear on your body. for myself, it just isnt as much fun.


good explanation i like the analogies.

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## OhioMuscle22

so kind of a broad question guys, and sorry if this has already been talked about. But how much(in pounds) does the BP shirt usually help out. anybody have there results from both. Just always wondered. Thanks.

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## Doc.Sust

different for everyone. some people get 50lbs others can get as much as 300lbs plus

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## OhioMuscle22

damn.. ok appreciate it. didnt mean to hijack thread

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