# MEMBERS EXPERIENCES > OVER 40 FORUM >  Fat loss

## comradebillyboy

I am 58 and need to lose about 30 lbs of fat. I am doing 40 min of pretty intense cardio 6 days a week. Get my heart rate up between 140 and 160 for about 30 min. I am also lifting 3 days a week to minimize muscle loss. Quit drinking, cut junk food, taking hgh and T4. Cant take clen or similar stimulants due to high blood pressure.

Should I increase cardio to 7 d/w and increase time also. What else would anyone suggest. I will not give up beef or lamb.

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## Kale

> I am 58 and need to lose about 30 lbs of fat. I am doing 40 min of pretty intense cardio 6 days a week. Get my heart rate up between 140 and 160 for about 30 min. I am also lifting 3 days a week to minimize muscle loss. Quit drinking, cut junk food, taking hgh and T4. Cant take clen or similar stimulants due to high blood pressure.
> 
> Should I increase cardio to 7 d/w and increase time also. What else would anyone suggest. I will not give up beef or lamb.


Beef and lamb are good  :Haha:  

Have a read of this dude, it may help 

A.M. Fat Burn
Author: Tom Venuto
Date: Aug 01, 2001

Even though morning cardio has been embraced by bodybuilders as a "tried and true" fat loss technique, there is definitely not a unanimous agreement about its effectiveness, especially in the scientific community. Most competitive bodybuilders are die-hard advocates of doing cardio first thing in the morning before eating their first meal. They believe it will cause them to mobilize more stored body fat and increase their metabolic rate all day long. Theres quite a bit of scientific literature supporting the a.m. fasted cardio theory, but generally, the exercise physiologists and scientists tend not to buy it. They subscribe to the energy balance hypothesis, which states; as long as you burn more calories than you consume in each 24 hour period, then the time of day you burn them doesnt matter, nor does whether you burn them from fat or carbohydrate.

If you have even the most rudimentary understanding of human physiology and physics, you have to concede that the timing of your cardio is not the most important factor in fat loss. When you do your cardio wont make or break you. Simply doing it whenever its convenient and following a mildly calorie restricted diet is whats important. However, theres a very strong case for doing fasted a.m. cardio and if you want to gain every legal and ethical advantage possible in your quest to get leaner then its definitely something you should take a closer look at.

The argument in favor of fasted early morning cardio goes something like this:

1. When you wake up in the morning after an overnight 8-12 hour fast, your bodys stores of glycogen are somewhat depleted. Doing cardio in this state causes your body to mobilize more fat because of the unavailability of glycogen.

2. Eating causes a release of insulin . Insulin interferes with the mobilization of body fat. Less insulin is present in the morning; therefore, more body fat is burned when cardio is done in the morning.

3. There is less carbohydrate (glucose) "floating around" in the bloodstream when you wake up after an overnight fast. With less glucose available, you will burn more fat.

4. If you eat immediately before a workout, you have to burn off what you just ate first before tapping into stored body fat (and insulin is elevated after a meal.)

5. When you do cardio in the morning, your metabolism stays elevated for a period of time after the workout is over. If you do cardio in the evening, you burn calories during the session so you definitely benefit from it, but you fail to take advantage of the "afterburn" effect because your metabolic rate drops dramatically as soon as you go to sleep.

Research supports this theory. A study performed at Kansas State University and published in Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise showed that a kilogram of fat is burned sooner when exercise is done in the fasted state in the morning than when its done later in the day. The researchers measured respiratory gas exchange, caloric expenditure and carbohydrate and fatty acid metabolism, and found that the amount of fat burned during aerobic exercise amounted to 67% of the total energy expenditure in the morning after a 12 hour fast. This is substantially higher than the 50% expenditure achieved when the same exercise was done later in the day or after eating. A similar study from The Journal of Applied Physiology looked at the effects of aerobic exercise on lipid oxidation in fed versus fasted states. The researchers concluded, "our results support the hypothesis that endurance training enhances lipid oxidation in men after a 12 hour overnight fast." Yet another scientific paper, Optimizing Exercise for Fat Loss," reports, "The ability of exercise to selectively promote fat oxidation should be optimized if exercise is done during morning fasted metabolism."

Despite the fact that increased fat burning from morning aerobics seems logical and is backed by research, the majority of scientists and exercise physiologists vehemently deny its effectiveness. They are quick to point out that you can find a study to support almost any theory you want to advocate. Interestingly though, even the most dyed in the wool academics agree that youll burn more fat in the fuel mix as compared to sugars. The real controversy lies in whether this fact has any impact on overall fat loss in the long run.

Exercise Physiologist Greg Landry, MS, author of "The Metabolism System for Weight Loss and Fitness," explains, "I agree that you burn a fuel mix that is a little higher in fat if youre exercising on an empty stomach. However, I think the real question is, does that matter? I believe we have a pool of calories stored in different forms in the body (fat, glycogen, etc.), so burned calories all come from the same pool. Thus, it really doesnt matter that the fuel mix has a little more fat in it at a given time. If its pulling from fat stores at that time, then its pulling less from glycogen stores and thus future consumed calories will be a little more likely to be stored as fat because glycogen stores are a little fuller. So its all a wash."

Lyle McDonald, an expert on bodybuilding nutrition and author of "The Ketogenic Diet," agrees. He argues that the body will compensate later in the day and is simply "too smart" for strategies like this to ever work: "All that research says is that you burn a greater proportion of fat this way, which I agree with 100%," says Lyle. "The majority of research shows that as far as real world fat loss goes, it doesnt really matter what you burn. Rather, 24-hour calorie balance is what matters. Because if you burn glucose during exercise, you tend to burn more fat the rest of the day. If you burn fat during exercise, you burn more glucose during the day. The end result is identical. If that werent the case, then athletes like sprinters who never burn fat during exercise wouldnt be shredded. Basically, they burn so many calories that they remain in balance and dont gain any fat. So, while morning cardio probably provides some psychological benefits to bodybuilders who are programmed to do it that way, I cant say that I think it will result in greater real world fat loss, which is what matters."

When it comes to "real world" fat loss, few people have more experience than Chris Aceto. A successful bodybuilder and nutritionist to some of the top pro bodybuilders in the world, Aceto is a firm believer in morning cardio. He unequivocally states, "The fastest way to tap stored body fat is to do cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach."

Aceto believes that looking at calories only in terms of energy in vs. energy out is "limited thinking." He asserts that there are more factors involved in "real world" results than just energy balance. This all comes back to the old argument, are all calories created equal? "Absolutely not!" Aceto declares. "A calorie is not just a calorie and exercise physiologists freak out when they hear this."

"These guys are working from the assumption that its just a matter of calories in vs. calories out, period," Chris continued. "With that line of reasoning, theyd be forced to say that if I consume nothing but candy bars and Coca-Cola, and take in 100 calories less than maintenance, Id lose weight. We know its not that simple. You also have to account for ratios of carbs, protein, and fat. Then theres meal frequency too: From real world results we know you put down more muscle mass from 5 or 6 meals a day than from 3 meals a day. There are more things involved than just calories."

Whether or not morning cardio in the fasted state increases "real world" fat loss is still the subject of controversy, but there are many other reasons you might want to consider making it a part of your daily routine. Landry, despite his doubts about whether the fuel source matters, admits, "If I had to pick a single factor I thought was most important in a successful weight loss program, it would have to be to exercise first thing in the morning."

Here are some of the additional benefits of doing cardio early in the morning:

1.It makes you feel great all day by releasing mood-enhancing endorphins.

2. It "energizes" you and "wakes you up."

3. It may help regulate your appetite for the rest of the day.

4. Your bodys circadian rhythm adjusts to your morning routine, making it easier to wake up at the same time every day.

5. Youll be less likely to "blow off" your workout when its out of the way early (like when youre exhausted after work or when friends ask you to join them at the pub for happy hour).

6. You can always "make time" for exercise by setting your alarm earlier in the morning.

7. It increases your metabolic rate for hours after the session is over.

Of all these benefits, the post-exercise increase in your metabolic rate is one of the most talked about. Scientists call this "afterburn" effect the "excess post-exercise oxygen consumption" or EPOC for short.

Looking only at the number of calories and the type of calories burned during the session doesnt give you the full picture. You also need to look at the increased number of calories you continue to burn after the workout is over. Thats right - work out in the morning and you burn calories all day long. Imagine burning extra fat as you sit at your desk at work! Thats the good news. The bad news is, the degree of EPOC is not as great as most people think. Its a myth that your metabolism stays elevated for 24 hours after a regular aerobic workout. That only happens after extremely intense and/or prolonged exercise such as running a marathon.

After low intensity exercise, the magnitude of the EPOC is so small that its impact on fat loss is negligible. Somewhere between 9 and 30 extra calories are burned after exercise at an intensity of less than 60-65% of maximal heart rate. In other words, a casual stroll on the treadmill will do next to nothing to increase your metabolism.

However, EPOC does increase with the intensity (and duration) of the exercise. According to Wilmore and Costill in "Physiology of Sport and Exercise," the EPOC after moderate exercise (75-80%) will amount to approximately .25 kcal/min or 15 kcal/hour. This would provide an additional expenditure of 75 kcal that would not normally be calculated in the total energy expended for that activity. An extra 75 calories is definitely nothing Earth shattering. However, it does add up over time. In a year that would mean (in theory) you would burn an extra 5.2 lbs of fat from the additional calories expended after the workout.

One way to get a significant post exercise "afterburn" is high intensity interval training (HIIT). HIIT is done by alternating brief periods of high intensity work (85% or more) with brief periods of lower intensity work. Studies on the effects of HIIT have demonstrated a much higher EPOC, which can add substantially to the days calorie expenditure. In one study, scientists from the University of Alabama compared the effects of two exercise protocols on 24-hour energy expenditure. The first group cycled for 60 minutes at a moderate intensity. The second group performed HIIT, cycling for two minutes at high intensity followed by two minutes at a low intensity. The group that performed the HIIT burned 160 more calories in 24 hours than the low intensity group. That means the HIIT group would burn an extra 11.8 pounds of fat in one year if they did HIIT five days a week instead of conventional training.

Ironically, weight training has a much higher magnitude of EPOC than aerobic training. Studies have shown increases in metabolic rate of as much as 4-7% over a 24-hour period from resistance training. Yes - that means bodybuilding does burn fat  albeit through an indirect mechanism. For someone with an expenditure of 2500 calories per day, that could add up to 100 - 175 extra calories burned after your weight training workout is over. The lesson is simple: Anyone interested in losing body fat who is not lifting weights should first take up a regimen of bodybuilding, then  and only then  start thinking about the morning cardio!

A common concern about doing cardio in the fasted state, especially if its done with high intensity, is the possibility of losing muscle. After an overnight fast, glycogen, blood glucose and insulin are all low. As weve already concluded, this is an optimum environment for burning fat. Unfortunately, it may also be an optimum environment for burning muscle because carbohydrate fuel sources are low and levels of the catabolic stress hormone cortisol are high. It sounds like morning cardio might be a double-edged sword, but there are ways to avert muscle loss.

All aerobic exercise will have some effect on building muscle, but as long as you dont overdo it, you shouldnt worry about losing muscle. It's a fact that muscle proteins are broken down and used for energy during aerobic exercise. But you are constantly breaking down and re-building muscle tissue anyway. This process is called "protein turnover" and its a daily fact of life. Your goal is to tip the scales slightly in favor of increasing the anabolic side and reducing the catabolic side just enough so you stay anabolic and you gain or at least maintain muscle.

How do you build up more muscle than you break down? First, avoid excessive cardio. Aceto suggests limiting your cardio on an empty stomach to 30 minutes, and then it would be "highly unlikely that amino acids will be burned as fuel." He also mentions that "a strong cup of coffee should facilitate a shifting to burn more fat and less glycogen. If you can spare glycogen, youll ultimately spare protein too." You might also want to consider experimenting with the thermogenic ephedrine-caffeine-aspirin stack (or its herbal equivalent).

Second, give your body the proper nutritional support. Losing muscle probably has more to do with inadequate nutrition than with excessive aerobics. Provide yourself with the proper nutritional support for the rest of the day, including adequate meal frequency, protein, carbohydrates and total calories, and its not as likely that there will be a net loss of muscle tissue over each 24-hour period.

Third, keep training with heavy weights, even during a fat loss phase. Using light weights and higher reps thinking that it will help you get more "cut" is a mistake: What put the muscle on in the first place is likely to help you keep it there.

Still petrified of losing your hard-earned muscle, but youd like to take advantage of the fat-burning and metabolism-boosting effects of morning cardio? One strategy many bodybuilders use is to drink a protein shake or eat a protein only meal 30-60 minutes prior to the morning session. The protein without the carbs will minimize the insulin response and allow you to mobilize fat while providing amino acids to prevent muscle breakdown.

In conclusion, it seems that morning cardio has enough indisputable benefits to motivate most people to set their alarms early. But lets talk bottom line results here: Does it really result in more "real world fat loss" than aerobics performed at other times of the day or after eating? I have to believe it does. Experience, common sense and research all tell me so. Nevertheless, this will obviously continue to be an area of much debate, and clearly, more research is needed. In the meantime, while the scientists are busy in their labs measuring respiratory exchange ratios, caloric expenditures and rates of substrate utilization, Im going to keep waking up at 6:00 AM every morning to get on my Stairmaster.

References

1. Aceto, Chris. Everything you need to know about fat loss. Club Creavalle, Inc. (1997).

2. Bahr, R. Excess post-exercise oxygen consumption  Magnitude, Mechanisms and Practical Implications. Acta Physiol Scand. Suppl. (1992) 605. 1-70.

3. Bergman, BC, Brooks, GA. Respiratory gas-exchange ratios during graded exercise in fed and fasted trained and untrained men. Journal of Applied Physiology. (1999) 86: 2.

4. Brehm, B.A., and Gutin, B. Recovery energy expenditure for steady state exercise in runners and non-exercisers. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise. (1986) 18: 205,

5. Brybner, BW. The effects of exercise intensity on body composition, weight loss, and dietary composition in women. Journal of American College of Nutrition, (1997) 16: 68-73

6. Landry, Greg. The Metabolism System for Weight Loss. Greg Landry. (2000).

7. Maehlum, S., etc al. Magnitude and duration of post exercise oxygen consumption in healthy young subjects. Metabolism (1986) 35 (5): 425-429.

8. McCarty, MF. Optimizing Exercise for Fat Loss. Medical Hypothesis. (1995) 44: 325-330

9. McDonald, Lyle. The Ketogenic Diet. Morris Publishing, (1998).

10. Melby, C. et al. Effect of acute resistance exercise on post exercise energy expenditure and resting metabolic rate. J Applied Physiology, (1993). 75: 1847-1853

11. Wilmore, Jack, Costill, David. Physiology of Sport and Exercise. (1999) 2nd ed. Human Kinetics

12. Tremblay, A, et al, Impact of exercise intensity on body fatness and skeletal muscle metabolism. Metabolism (1994) 43: 818-818

13. Treuth, M.S., Hunter, G.R., & Williams, M. Effects of exercise intensity on 24-h energy expenditure and substrate oxidation. Medicine and Science in Sports & Exercise. (1996) 28, 1138-1143

14.Wilcox, Harford & Wedel. Medicine and Science in Sports & Exercise, (1985) 17:2
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## comradebillyboy

I do prebreakfast morning cardio on week ends and days off work. I leave for work at 6:30 am. I'd have to get up at 5 to do a good cardio cool off and shower. I cant do that. On work days I do the cardio as soon as I get home about 4 hrs after my mid-day meal.

Thanks for the article.

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## zaggahamma

> I am 58 and need to lose about 30 lbs of fat. I am doing 40 min of pretty intense cardio 6 days a week. Get my heart rate up between 140 and 160 for about 30 min. I am also lifting 3 days a week to minimize muscle loss. Quit drinking, cut junk food, taking hgh and T4. Cant take clen or similar stimulants due to high blood pressure.
> 
> Should I increase cardio to 7 d/w and increase time also. What else would anyone suggest. I will not give up beef or lamb.


how long have you been doing the 6day a week cardio...sounds pretty solid already...you mentioned that you cut junk but how far back did you cut it....if you're working it out to occasional cheats and you're seeing results IMO i would stick with what's working...as you keep reducing the junk you will start to not miss them and eventually crave foods that will feed your workouts...most ppl have cheat meals/days...
if you lose 1 pound a week, you'll reach your goal in about 6 months...in the big pic...that's no time

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## comradebillyboy

> how long have you been doing the 6day a week cardio...sounds pretty solid already...you mentioned that you cut junk but how far back did you cut it....if you're working it out to occasional cheats and you're seeing results IMO i would stick with what's working...as you keep reducing the junk you will start to not miss them and eventually crave foods that will feed your workouts...most ppl have cheat meals/days...
> if you lose 1 pound a week, you'll reach your goal in about 6 months...in the big pic...that's no time


Been doing 6days a week for about 2 months now. I am starting to see the weight come down now. I have lost about 10 lbs since early july. Lost about 4 lbs in the last 10 days. Quit alcohol 2 weeks ago. Easy way to give up 2-300 calories a day. I cheat a bit now and then need a chocolate bar about once a week. No more pizza, no more breakfast burritos. Also just increased cardio to ed. I want daily cardio to be like a compulsion.

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## zaggahamma

> Been doing 6days a week for about 2 months now. I am starting to see the weight come down now. I have lost about 10 lbs since early july. Lost about 4 lbs in the last 10 days. Quit alcohol 2 weeks ago. Easy way to give up 2-300 calories a day. I cheat a bit now and then need a chocolate bar about once a week. No more pizza, no more breakfast burritos. Also just increased cardio to ed. I want daily cardio to be like a compulsion.


Sounds like you have a great routine already and it's working great and i understand about wanting the compulsion....everything always works better for me when i have a routine and agreed with the booz....they are a waste nutritionally and a potential negative snowball effect. I personally keep my alcohol consumption to occasionaly/rare.
Keep up the great work bro...keep us posted

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## comradebillyboy

It was pretty easy to give up scotch, it was beggining to hurt my stomach. No scotch, no stomach pain. I am starting to show results, but patience has never been my strong point.

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## powerlifter

Keep up the hard work. Sounds like you have got things rolling.

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## comradebillyboy

> Keep up the hard work. Sounds like you have got things rolling.


there are a lot of real supportive and knowledgable folks on this board and I sure appreciate all the good advice I get

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## BOOST

Stick with the cardo, maybe hit a diet like weight watchers for that much weight loss. You can cheat and eat from all the food groups, it is not un-common to loose 2-3lbs per week. The main thing is time and dedication. Getting heavy did not happen overnight, loosing it works the same way.

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## THE_BOSS

bump.....Great read

THE BOSS

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## RippedNatural

Try eating more often, About every 3 hours. No fat, No sugar. In the evening no Carbs. Eat your chocolate bars immediately following your weight training, when they will positively effect you, not negatively. Fast carbs are good after a workout. Slow carbs are better all day long. Check out a Glycemic Index for Information on which carbs are high,(FAST) and which are low(slow) acting. Your cardio is sufficient , no need to change it. When you train with weights keep your rest to a minimum , say 45-50 seconds between sets, this will make you burn even more caories and keep your heart pumping. Then hit your cardio immediately after. Also invest in a neoprene AB Belt. This keeps heat in your midsection and you will sweat out the love handles. Morning cardio is not neccessary for you to loose the weight. Chicken is the best protein source all day for me, but you can eat some meat and fish as well. Try a Fish Oil supplement in the evening, It also helps burn unwanted fats. I hope this helps. I dropped 29 pounds and to around 3-4% bodyfat with this plan. Cheat meals or snacks are ok seldomly, 1-2 weeks apart. Listen to your body, If it is dying for sugar give it a little. Some times on a strict diet your body will feel like it is stalling. When it does , have that 1 cheat meal that day, only 1 meal, you will probably lose a pound that night, because your metabolism will eat it right up!!!

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## Squatman51

> Beef and lamb are good  
> 
> Have a read of this dude, it may help 
> 
> A.M. Fat Burn
> Author: Tom Venuto
> Date: Aug 01, 2001
> 
> Even though morning cardio has been embraced by bodybuilders as a "tried and true" fat loss technique, there is definitely not a unanimous agreement about its effectiveness, especially in the scientific community. Most competitive bodybuilders are die-hard advocates of doing cardio first thing in the morning before eating their first meal. They believe it will cause them to mobilize more stored body fat and increase their metabolic rate all day long. Theres quite a bit of scientific literature supporting the a.m. fasted cardio theory, but generally, the exercise physiologists and scientists tend not to buy it. They subscribe to the energy balance hypothesis, which states; as long as you burn more calories than you consume in each 24 hour period, then the time of day you burn them doesnt matter, nor does whether you burn them from fat or carbohydrate.
> ...


that was a good article....answered all question i ever needed answered about cardio since im relatively new to it.....

what do you people think of it.... Does it really matter what TIME????

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## ACE24

I agree with the cardio in the am. Over the last three weeks, I have adjusted my training where I get my cardio in before work, and then train when I get home. I have dropped a good solid 6lbs of fat. I used to do cardio after I trained and I always seemed to cut it short. If I do my cardio in the morning, I seem to push harder and feel great all day.

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## fbcoach

At one time I became very obsessed with getting ripped. I also did the 7 days/wk 30-60 mins. cardio. At first the weight and fat came off, but after a month, I plateud and couldn't lose a pound All of this while eating clean as possible. I remember saying to myself, f_ck this, I would rather be fat and happy. So I went out and had 2 whoppers, fries and a shake....guess what?? That's right..the next morning woke up and lost 5lbs. It took some time, but I realized that I was stressing my body way too much, and went into the stress mode. My body began to retain water and fat. As soon as I learned to train smarter, I have never had a problem with bodyfat. 2 intense weight workouts/wk and 2 very intense muay thai-bjj wokouts/wk keep me lean and fit at age 47. Now, as soon as I get my hormones in balance (w/OASIS), I feel that along with these workouts and watching calories, I will be in as good as shape as can be. With my occupation, I have to be :Smilie:  Sometimes I just have to show these young bucks, even at my age I can still hang..at least until I get home and have to sit in the hottub for hours :Smilie:

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## wascaptain5214

With my occupation, I have to be :Smilie:  Sometimes I just have to show these young bucks, even at my age I can still hang..at least until I get home and have to sit in the hottub for hours :Smilie: [/QUOTE] same here....

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## kynetguy

> At one time I became very obsessed with getting ripped. I also did the 7 days/wk 30-60 mins. cardio. At first the weight and fat came off, but after a month, I plateud and couldn't lose a pound All of this while eating clean as possible. I remember saying to myself, f_ck this, I would rather be fat and happy. So I went out and had 2 whoppers, fries and a shake....guess what?? That's right..the next morning woke up and lost 5lbs. It took some time, but I realized that I was stressing my body way too much, and went into the stress mode. My body began to retain water and fat. As soon as I learned to train smarter, I have never had a problem with bodyfat. 2 intense weight workouts/wk and 2 very intense muay thai-bjj wokouts/wk keep me lean and fit at age 47. Now, as soon as I get my hormones in balance (w/OASIS), I feel that along with these workouts and watching calories, I will be in as good as shape as can be. With my occupation, I have to be Sometimes I just have to show these young bucks, even at my age I can still hang..at least until I get home and have to sit in the hottub for hours



Definately true. I had similar results recently. Best thing I did was start feeding myself more often. Your body is smarter than your brain. If it feels that it is not going to get the food it wants, it retaliates. Feed that head bro. . .just don't feed it junk food all the time. 

But do cheat a meal once every week or two. It does nothing for the bod, but it certainly keeps the brain happy and will prevent you from going on an all-out binge eating fest after 3 months of nothing but healthy food.

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## Shane35aa

[QUOTE=RippedNatural]. Also invest in a neoprene AB Belt. This keeps heat in your midsection and you will sweat out the love handles. 

Do these belts really help? Anyone else have any luck with them. I heard they were just another gimmick?

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## guitarzan

I just started doin my cardio in the a.m. and it me makes feel so much better the rest of the day that that alone makes it worth it to me. In fact, I feel so much better that all day at work I tend to stretch and do little things like taking the stairs or swinging my arms around, anything to keep the blood flowing. All these little things really seem to help.

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## zaggahamma

> I just started doin my cardio in the a.m. and it me makes feel so much better the rest of the day that that alone makes it worth it to me. In fact, I feel so much better that all day at work I tend to stretch and do little things like taking the stairs or swinging my arms around, anything to keep the blood flowing. All these little things really seem to help.


agreed...i've always liked exercising in the morn as well...i've been lucky cuz my job provides the cardio i need by walk mowing in 30 min. intervals X 5...so my time in the gym can be resistance focused  :Smilie:

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## realtalk

can anyone tell me what kind of estrogen blokers can I get at the GNC

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## realtalk

and would taking an estro blocker boost up some natural testosterone

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## Shane35aa

> and would taking an estro blocker boost up some natural testosterone


If was gonna order OTC Blocker I would order it online. GNC will charge you a arm and something between the legs for it

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## zaggahamma

> can anyone tell me what kind of estrogen blokers can I get at the GNC


they carry a product called 60X0 that claims to do so (lower estro and raise test) yes....to what degree i haven't seen many posts here but my uro reccommended it b4 i insisted on arimidex . I tried it for a few weeks until i could get the arimidex and couldn't say one way or the other to it's effectiveness. 
Also agree with above GNC usually charges high prices accept for their Red Mill Cereals  :Smilie:

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## DIANABOLIO

Great advice from all, BUT sounds like you're relying too much on cardio which will burn muscle on a restricted cal diet. Bump up the weight training and drop cardio to 20-30 min.s per day, more muscle = higher resting metabolic rate. As far as diet, keep protein up, stop the alcohol and junk and make all carbs low glycemic index. Have a cheat day once per week where you eat anything you want, this fools your body into thinking that it's not dieting and keeps your metabolism up.

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## rxarms

4. If you eat immediately before a workout, you have to burn off what you just ate first before tapping into stored body fat (and insulin is elevated after a meal.)


I may have to disagree with this statement. I understand many people live by this rule, but I think it is wrong. Consider this. It is better to eat before cardio especial if you want to retain muscle mass. Why? If you do cardio without eating first, or at least having some orange juice, your body will not only use body fat and stored glycogen for energy, but also muscle. That is why it appears you lose more weight when you do cardio before eating becuase you are losing muscle as well. Also you want your body to produce more insulin becuase it is a natural anabolic steroid . It prevents glucogen storage of sugar and carbs and ultimately prevents fat build up.

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