# COMPETITIVE BODYBUILDING - POWERLIFTING - ATHLETICS & SPORTS > COMPETITIVE BODYBUILDING Q & A >  trying to cut to 6% BF (or below)

## --->>405<<---

first off let me say ive been on this board for a year and just found this forum! i am also not planning on competing (although its been suggested i should but i dont feel i would be competitive  :Smilie: ). 

im curious as to yalls thoughts on a diet i plan implementing when my progress stalls. currently im running ultimate diet 2.0 which i have had very good results from in the past. i seem to get stuck at 7.8%bf and i am looking for a diet that will kick start results back in. 

i have a friend who is a very competitive BB'er and he suggested i go to a 5day meat/veggie only followed by 2day high carb load 800-1000g then repeat. this will also be done with 2x per day cardio (on days my schedule will allow).

am fasted 45mins, pm prob 30-45mins both with moderate intensity (130-140BPM) - may throw some HIIT in but maybe not 

current stats: 5'9" 
200lbs 9%bf (9-site caliper)

macros will be in the range of:

days 1-5:
300g pro
65g carbs (veggie only)
30-40g fat 

days 6-7:
300g pro
800g carbs
fat whatever is in meat and carbs havent figured it exactly yet (as low as possible)

i would appreciate any response on what yall think about this diet and its effectiveness of propelling me past my typical sticking point. thx  :Smilie:

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## largerthannormal

thats not you in your avy is it?

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## --->>405<<---

> thats not you in your avy is it?


It was me. I dont look like that now. LOL .. Was hoping for a better, more informative response than that!  :Wink:

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## --->>405<<---

will this pic get me a better response?  :Smilie:

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## < <Samson> >

8%< is damn good man. . . . 

If I ever get down that low, the only other thing I can think of doing is dropping the fat g's even lower if possible and carbs even lower on low carb days.


I am starting to incorporate a carb cycle type of diet, but not to these extremes - yet.

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## --->>405<<---

> 8%< is damn good man. . . . 
> 
> If I ever get down that low, the only other thing I can think of doing is dropping the fat g's even lower if possible and carbs even lower on low carb days.
> 
> 
> I am starting to incorporate a carb cycle type of diet, but not to these extremes -* yet*.


yet being the operative word  :Wink: 

if ur anything like me u wont be satisfied.. u can always be a little bit leaner or a little bit bigger..

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## largerthannormal

LOL well i had to ask bro, i was hoping that wasnt your idea of 9%. i was scared to answer if it was. 




> It was me. I dont look like that now. LOL .. Was hoping for a better, more informative response than that!

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## --->>405<<---

> LOL well i had to ask bro, i was hoping that wasnt your idea of 9%. i was scared to answer if it was.


No prob.. Do u have an answer?  :Smilie:

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## bowldawg

I just started a protocol of injectable carnatine shuttled with a low dose of insuline. The reviews have been very positive so we'll see. Might be worth a try since your so damn close. Also yohimbine hcl works well along with peptides and/or gh.

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## austinite

Interesting. I think baseline_9 is doing something similar, but he carbs up on saturday night and sunday. Im really interested in this and will follow a log.

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## --->>405<<---

> I just started a protocol of injectable carnatine shuttled with a low dose of insuline. The reviews have been very positive so we'll see. Might be worth a try since your so damn close. Also yohimbine hcl works well along with peptides and/or gh.


Ive read that about the yohimbine. I know nutn about peptides. Id really like to hit 6% natty (except my TRT) if posssible and think i should be able to. Im willing to put in the work and plan on running this diet but wanted to see:

Who frequents this forum and if they compete because if they do id think they could give me a second opinion as well as maybe share their method. I would think anyone competing achieves sub 6% bf (i at least would hope so  :Smilie: ) i sure as heck wouldnt enter a show if i wasnt sub 6%

I may in the mean time chek out peptides. I have researched AAS but not peptides.

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## bowldawg

Carnatine would still be natural just a little unnatural form of transport  :Smilie:  you could also use carbs to shuttle, but that would be counterproductive on a cut. I enjoy the yohimbine before fasted cardio and get a sort of euphoric feeling and it's cheap.

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## largerthannormal

not really, honestly i was ready to poke fun at your idea of 9% but now you took all my fun away when you posted your pics..  :Wink: 

lol nah man for real sub 10 is even tough for me. my body just doesnt like to be there. Id have to try my butt off to get to 8 and even if i did the first week i ate a few cheat meals id be right back...

so your above me on this one bro.. 




> No prob.. Do u have an answer?

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## --->>405<<---

> Interesting. I think baseline_9 is doing something similar, but he carbs up on saturday night and sunday. Im really interested in this and will follow a log.


well austinite i will be continuing in my log in the nutrition section. i wont switch up until my progress stalls which i expect to happen in prob 2 or 3 weeks..  :Smilie:

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## --->>405<<---

> not really, honestly *i was ready to poke fun at your idea of 9%* but now you took all my fun away when you posted your pics.. 
> 
> lol nah man for real sub 10 is even tough for me. my body just doesnt like to be there. Id have to try my butt off to get to 8 and even if i did the first week i ate a few cheat meals id be right back...
> 
> so your above me on this one bro..


funny man.. my avi does generate some confusion. (as intended LOL)  :Wink:

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## largerthannormal

> funny man.. my avi does generate some confusion. (as intended LOL)


lol sorry man... good luck hope you find your answer....geez you made some crazy changes though.!!

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## --->>405<<---

diet man.. diet.. (and hormone optimization).. my free test was 7.3

thanx  :Smilie:

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## largerthannormal

No Problem buddy!

ive only got serious on my diet about a 2 years ago and just recently learning how things affect me. I dont think ill ever have things dialed in but I have a pretty good grasp right now, I got lab on monday then gonna really buckle down and hit this next run hardcore........ i feel my biggest change comeing up here in the next year!

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## gearbox

how much under your tdee are you going for and whats your cardio sched?

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## gearbox

also I am not a fan of those really high carb feeds. I would not go about 400.

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## Brohim

I agree with Gearbox. A high carb day is 400 grams and that is someone with fast metabolism. Meat and veggies with carb load to refill leptin is a great idea. But keep in mind a few things. 

For the most part it is not healthy to maintain a bodyfat below 8%. That is the reason it's so hard to get there. Because the body is not designed to stay that low. That is why competitors can only maintain very low bf levels for a day or two then go back up. If you want to get to 6% my advice is to enter a competition and hire a coach. They are expert's in diet's/training/ and have the know how to get to 6%. It's a system to get there and not easy, particularly for the points I highlighted above.

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## austinite

> also I am not a fan of those really high carb feeds. I would not go about 400.


Even with 5 days of super low/no carbs? Seems like you would rid yourself of that pretty quick in the following day or so.

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## --->>405<<---

> how much under your tdee are you going for and whats your cardio sched?


i havent gone that far but will give it a look over tonite.




> also I am not a fan of those really high carb feeds. I would not go about 400.


well if u think about it considering the other 5 days ill be eatn veggies only and possibly enter ketosis i will only be consuming 1600g starchy carbs for the week. that averages out to 228g carbs per day over a 7day week. bear in mind i am currently running UD2.0 amd have a 30hr high carb refeed of 1300g carbs startn tonite and ending tomorrow nite. ive gotten to 7.8%bf with this diet. do u think maybe the 1300g carb refeed is whats holding me at 7.8% and not allowing me to drop further? Lyle MacDonald (the author of the diet as u prob know) suggests the body is primed for glycogen supercompensation due to the 50%maintenance cals deficit i run the first 4 days of the diet. i figured similar circumstance would apply for this style diet as well??

im not arguing with u just explaining my rationale  :Smilie: 




> Even with 5 days of super low/no carbs? Seems like you would rid yourself of that pretty quick in the following day or so.


kinda what i was thinking. the guy who told me of this diet cuts to 4%bf with it. it is his contest prep. bear in mind hes running gear, ECA, clen , T3.. LOL i wont be..

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## --->>405<<---

> I agree with Gearbox. A high carb day is 400 grams and that is someone with fast metabolism. Meat and veggies with carb load to refill leptin is a great idea. But keep in mind a few things. 
> 
> For the most part it is not healthy to maintain a bodyfat below 8%. That is the reason it's so hard to get there. Because the body is not designed to stay that low. That is why competitors can only maintain very low bf levels for a day or two then go back up. If you want to get to 6% my advice is to enter a competition and hire a coach. They are expert's in diet's/training/ and have the know how to get to 6%. It's a system to get there and not easy, particularly for the points I highlighted above.


thx brohim. although i havent researched what bf% would be considered unhealthy to live at i would think 6% would be fine. i could be wrong this is just my unresearched opinion.  :Smilie:  i may give it a look. ive made it to 8% without a lot of difficulty..

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## --->>405<<---

> how much under your tdee are you going for and whats your cardio sched?


this is what ive considered:

200lbs 9%bf (180lbs LBM)
rough maintenance: 2700cals (LBM x 15)
BMR: 2133cals

weekly maintenance total: 18900cals

actual cals ingested weekly on this diet: 19100

*days 1-5:*
1820cals
300g pro
65g carbs (veggies only)
40g fat

*days 6-7:*
4950-5000cals
300g pro
800g carbs (primarily complex with maybe 200g from simple sources)
60g fat (roughly, keep as low as i can)

*CARDIO:* 5-6 days per week am fasted cardio 45mins moderate, pm cardio when schedule allows shooting for 3 days per week 30mins moderate or possible HIIT/moderate as below:

may throw this type cardio in occasionally:
5min warmup
10mins HIIT
20 mins moderate

day1: glycogen depletion total body 5 sets per body part 15 reps per set 

day2: cardio only

day3: chest/bis

day4: back/tris/shoulders

day5: legs/traps

day6: cardio only

day7: off

something along these lines.. thoughts?  :Smilie:

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## MR-FQ320

^^^^^^ I cannot understand why your re-feed days are A) together B) so far apart, as opposed to evry 3rd or fourth day C) on none weight lifting days. Just my 0.02 bro.

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## --->>405<<---

^^ i may move one of my lifting days to coincide with refeed. 

The reason theyre together and so far apart is because days days 1-5 are dieting/glycogen depletion days to optimize fatburn and then days 6&7 are to replenish Muscle glycogen. I suppose day 7 could be a workout day. Prob would be a good place for it.

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## MR-FQ320

Yeah I see it now, I'm not saying your wrong. 

As always everybody is different. If it works for you then that's OK. I just think by day 2/3 your glycogen stores will have depleted, so I think days 4/5 will eat into muscle. 

I'm going to subscribe to your thread and check on progress, as you already know I'm cycling my carbs in a slightly different manner.

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## dec11

> thats not you in your avy is it?


i was wondering too, lol.

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## dec11

GL OP, im embarking on the dreaded cut prob from next week on.

6% would be quite taxing to maintain though, getting down into stage figures with that % mate

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## baseline_9

I'm definitely interested in how this goes for you.....

Not that I'm concerned with hitting 6% for anything soon...... 6% would be pretty sick tho

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## --->>405<<---

> Yeah I see it now, I'm not saying your wrong. 
> 
> As always everybody is different. If it works for you then that's OK. *I just think by day 2/3 your glycogen stores will have depleted, so I think days 4/5 will eat into muscle.* 
> 
> I'm going to subscribe to your thread and check on progress, as you already know I'm cycling my carbs in a slightly different manner.


yeh depletion is the point  :Smilie:  also due to depletion and potential catabolism is the point of the high carb refeeds to replace lost muscle. i suppose this is why itd be good for a workout on day 7. i may have to restructure my workouts. posted that fairly quikly to give gearbox an idea of what i was thinking. nothing is set in stone yet. the workout format was one bit of info i was not able to get from my BBer friend. he just said he lifts 6days per week on this diet and lifts heavy every day.  :Smilie: 




> GL OP, im embarking on the dreaded cut prob from next week on.
> 
> 6% would be quite taxing to maintain though, getting down into stage figures with that % mate


good luck on ur cut man! stage figures is what i want man. not because i plan on getting on a stage i just want that knowledge and ability under my belt simply because i do. im an extremist and want to accomplish the extreme. its what drive me. i have a hard time settling with mediocrity  :Smilie: 




> I'm definitely interested in how this goes for you.....
> 
> Not that I'm concerned with hitting 6% for anything soon...... 6% would be pretty sick tho


appreciate it base. another few weeks and i will be implementing this new process. bf% came back this am at 8.73% down from 9.03% last sunday so my current diet is still working. i suspect when i get closer to 8.0% (or a little under) its gonna stall. thats why im posting this here cuz i figure guys who compete may be able to help me in this area of sub 8% bf..

maybe one of em will give me a tip?? if not i will continue as planned. i think the 5days no carbs cuopled with 8-9cardio sessions per week should do some good. i havent had a prob with muscle loss while cutting up to this point and its prob due to the fact im on TRT and maintain free test levels in the 30's as well as i eat 300+ g protein most of the time..

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## baseline_9

If u stall try changing ur cardio up to 2x30 mins per day but smash the intensity much harder so ur spent after a 30min session

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## --->>405<<---

> If u stall try changing ur cardio up to 2x30 mins per day but smash the intensity much harder so ur spent after a 30min session


will do. ive never done 2x per day cardio before. fig itll prob help for sure  :Smilie:

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## --->>405<<---

taken this week...

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## Phased

Id say your around 12-13% from eyesight spec only. Looking at your pic in your profile for those you have made huge improvement. 213lbs 26%bf to 201lbs 13.1%bf is a vast improvement. Feel encouraged by your gains in muscle and loss in fat. I am positive we can get your to 8% if we keep working together. As I mentioned do some research into Primo. As you are already on TRT and primo is one the best drugs if running a cal deficient diet to cut fat, harden and keep lean muscle mass. none better IMO. BTW nice christmas tree on the back, looking very good.

http://www.steroid.com/Primobolan.php

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## Phased

One more thing, not only will primo help in all things related to you goals, but I noticed in another forum that you do IF. As I mentioned it is going to help severely burn fat while maintain muscle on days with little to no food, you can be confident that on those days it will be doing its job and keeping your muscles anabolic instead of catabolic.

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## --->>405<<---

like i said i havent cycled before and my E2 is not dialed in so im having to get labs done fairly regularly. both of these factors are obstacles i dont think i can overcome at the moment.

have done a fair amt of reading on mod GRF (1-29) + IPAM and was thinking of running it at saturation dose 3x per day and using it in the am to take advantage of fasted cardio for fat burn..??

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## Phased

> like i said i havent cycled before and my E2 is not dialed in so im having to get labs done fairly regularly. both of these factors are obstacles i dont think i can overcome at the moment.
> 
> have done a fair amt of reading on mod GRF (1-29) + IPAM and was thinking of running it at saturation dose 3x per day and using it in the am to take advantage of fasted cardio for fat burn..??


I just sent you a pm before you wrote this asking about all the details of your HRT, test, dosage, e2 lvls. Post it up in here if you want. I need to step away for a few hours. Talk soon

See you around

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