# FITNESS and NUTRITION FORUM > WORKOUT AND TRAINING >  P90X - positives and negatives

## gbrice75

This is not going to be another *what do you think of P90X* thread. Instead, I am trying to decide if it would be a good program for me. I'm at the point where I feel I need a structured program, mainly because I feel like what i'm doing right now is going nowhere, and also because I second guess everything I do (when I make my own routines, diet, etc). 

I have used the search feature to see other posts about it, and of course there seems to be positives and negatives. I'd like to hear from people with personal experience with the program. Here's what I see most often, positives first:

*> Great for cutting, but definitely not a bulking program
> Absolutely works for shedding bodyfat
> builds endurance and strength*

Negatives:

*> Intensity too high, causing one to become catabolic?
> One member whose opinion I hold in high regard said that he lost 8lbs. of muscle and bodyfat % stayed the same, and that he followed the program to a 't'. this concerns me, but he's also the only one I saw who stated that.
> Many people suggest supplementing with some real lifting to gain or maintain muscle - also pointing to muscle loss?*

I'd like to know if anybody has modified/added to the program to make it more of a bulk or bodybuilder type program vs. just getting shredded. 

Also, IF I were to do it, I need to decide whether to do it right away then try and add lean mass, or continue adding mass now (which I feel like i'm only adding bodyfat) and use the program to shed the fat afterwards?

I look forward to your feedback.

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## JJ78

I do the Yoga, Ab Ripper X, and sometimes Kenpo and Plyo. If you have heavy enough dumbells and belt strap for pullups you can put on muscle. It is definitley high intesity ie going from one excercise to the next. So you heart Rate is up the whole time. If you eat enough calories I do not see why one would not build muscle.

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## JJ78

Also Im no expert, but I would think P90X and a nice Test cycle would be pretty f'in good. You would be a strong fast beast after a 12 week cycle and extremly cut. Just my opinion.

I did the program for about a month, but had to stop because we moved into a condo and do not have room to jump around. I have a hard time getting my cardio in and with these dvds it was a little easier but it is tough. Plyometrics made me puke. Of course i was doing it in my garage in Vegas in the summer.

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## danielli

LOL - I did the P*20*X version and didn't get very good results. However, when I started I was in horrible shape, and to be honest, I couldn't effectivley make it through the workouts. Because of that, I decided to quit and start a more basic workout routine (Stronglifts 5x5). Now that I'm in better shape now, I think I'd have more success if I were to try it again. 

In fact, I have recently considered P90X again to help shed some stubborn fat and try to get a more "lean" look. So I'll be watiching this thread closely for input from others who have given it an honest shot.

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## gbrice75

Thanks for the feedback guys. @JJ - i'm on a 12 week test e cycle now! I would love to get much leaner, but I have such little muscle mass now that I cannot afford to lose ANY, this is my biggest concern about the program.

@Danielli - what is P20X? Never heard of it!

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## 6ft5

I think you should try it. You can do your own pace the first couple time threw. I know its a pretty sick routien! Everyone is diffrent, your cortizol levels should be prety supressed by now. Blast it out!!! Id do it but my neighbors would freakout.

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## danielli

> Thanks for the feedback guys. @JJ - i'm on a 12 week test e cycle now! I would love to get much leaner, but I have such little muscle mass now that I cannot afford to lose ANY, this is my biggest concern about the program.
> 
> @Danielli - what is P20X? Never heard of it!


haha - its just 20 days of the 90 day version. Thats all I could take and decided to hit the gym instead. 

Like I said, I may give it another go

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## Little Herc

Negatives are that it comes with a diet and the diet is 90% of it. You could do the same thing by going low calorie and doing jumping jacks 45 min a day. 

Anything that gets you active is alright with me tho. I have to give props to the guy in charge of marketing p90x. It's is the best marketed products I've ever seen. They saturated youtube and google with bots and fake reviews. Parrot effect in full force.

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## gbrice75

I heard the diet is pretty good actually - I wouldn't mind having a look at it and possibly just taking that from the program and trying to apply it to my current routine, although both would probably have to change a bit. 

What is the gist of the diet - high protein/low carb?

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## Sfla80

> I heard the diet is pretty good actually - I wouldn't mind having a look at it and possibly just taking that from the program and trying to apply it to my current routine, although both would probably have to change a bit. 
> 
> What is the gist of the diet - high protein/low carb?


Exactly what i wanted to do, i am burning the diet part of the videos, and also the core/abs cd. Basically all i want. Would love to do the entire routine, but i love going to the gym too much.....dont know what i would do just working out at home all the time.

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## CMB

It gets you ripped thats for sure. I guess if you ate enough you could bulk at the same time. 

And whoever lost 8lbs of muscle needs to stay the hell away from the gym. IMO, its a lie.

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## gbrice75

> It gets you ripped thats for sure. I guess if you ate enough you could bulk at the same time. 
> 
> And whoever lost 8lbs of muscle needs to stay the hell away from the gym. IMO, its a lie.


LoL, I hear you - it sounds strange considering the mostly positive results others have posted. However, as I mentioned this was a respected board member and somebody who has personally helped me out alot with my diet, so I do trust him. 

Any idea on where one might find just the diet portion of the program? I'd like to have a look at what they recommend.

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## danielli

> ....
> What is the gist of the diet - high protein/low carb?


3 Phases: Pro/Carb/Fat
1st phase - 50/30/20 
2nd phase - 40/40/20
3rd phase - 20/60/20




> ....
> Any idea on where one might find just the diet portion of the program? I'd like to have a look at what they recommend.


you've got a PM

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## gbrice75

> 3 Phases: Pro/Carb/Fat
> 1st phase - 50/30/20 
> 2nd phase - 40/40/20
> 3rd phase - 20/60/20
> 
> 
> 
> you've got a PM


Got it, thanks Danielli! I'm checking into it now, sporatically because i'm at work. 

I'll withold judgement until I see the entire diet layout, but at a glance I don't understand the science behind a 20/60/20 split - such low protein and high carbs???

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## danielli

> Got it, thanks Danielli! I'm checking into it now, sporatically because i'm at work. 
> 
> I'll withold judgement until I see the entire diet layout, but at a glance I don't understand the science behind a 20/60/20 split - such low protein and high carbs???


Yeah...I noticed that too and I'm not sure about the science either. But the W/O program is all about "body confusion". Maybe they figure that applies to diet as well - who knows. None the less, it seems somewhat contrary to a lot that I've read on these boards.

I've been on a pretty strict keto diet (CKD) for about 4 months. So when I give it a go, I'll prob move into a 40/40/20 Pro/Fat/Carb diet so I don't go overboard with the carbs after being without them consistently for so long.

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## gbrice75

> Yeah...I noticed that too and I'm not sure about the science either. But the W/O program is all about "body confusion". Maybe they figure that applies to diet as well - who knows. None the less, it seems somewhat contrary to a lot that I've read on these boards.
> 
> I've been on a pretty strict keto diet (CKD) for about 4 months. So when I give it a go, I'll prob move into a 40/40/20 Pro/Fat/Carb diet so I don't go overboard with the carbs after being without them consistently for so long.


Good idea about the carbs - you may even want to gradually add them, start with like a 50/30/20 (lol, like p90X) then work your way back up from there.

I ran a CKD diet, lasted 3 weeks - just couldn't hack it, and didn't really see fat loss (got down to 177, but my bodyfat appeared to stay the same) so I ditched it. Good luck with it, 4 months already? Have you checked your BF% before and current?

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## SHANE704

strangly enough they say the third phase is where you really start noticing the cutting/loss of bf....i stuck with it for about 60 days and saw some decent results....but like mentioned before saw no bulking at all...i would love to go back thru it with a really strict diet and see just what can be done in 90 days

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## JJ78

There are 3 different Diets you can do. 1 is for losing weight(low cal.)
And the highest calorie one for putting on muscle is a high calorie. Like 3500-4500 cals.

It is adjusted to the 3 phases of exercise. Each 30day "phase" has different DVDs

The diet is just eating clean and 6 times a day with the right splits.
There are some good recipies in the diet book. I still make some of them. ie. dressings, marinades, sauces.

Like I said before I did not complete it but my brother made it 90 days and he is probably 7-8% bf. Hes not real big but he doesnt diet to get big. But strong as hell and shredded.
I just did the ab dvd yesterday and it is a killer.

16mins and 360 reps, probably 10-12 different core and ab moves.

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## gbrice75

Thanks for the info guys, i'm very glad to know that it doesn't have to be a cutting program necessarily. Very few people are truly cutting at 3000+ calories/day. 

If I were to start, I would probably be best going middle of the road - I would try to eat a bit above TDEE to maintain or possibly gain a bit of muscle, and let cardio/the workouts take care of burning the fat.

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## Twist

Don't do it during pct. take it easy in the gym while on pct, that is the hardest time for your body to repair muscle.

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## gbrice75

I'm currently researching a p90x/lifting hybrid routine, or I will have to try and come up with my own. This program is compelling, but I don't want to give up real lifting for 3 months.

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## JJ78

Its all good. But at first, the first DVD Chest and back. Its just Pullups, chinups, and 4 or 5 different veriations of pushups. X 2 rounds. You will not be able to do any pushups at the end. Im pretty strong and in decent shape but its tough. But it will put on muscle and cut at the same time.

There is a lot of core moves and there aint nothin wrong with that.

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## danielli

> I'm currently researching a p90x/lifting hybrid routine, or I will have to try and come up with my own. This program is compelling, but I don't want to give up real lifting for 3 months.


Of course I say it now...but if I do it, I will prob add at least 1-2 days in the gym a week on top of or instead of one of the P90X dvds.

I'd have to look at the workouts again to see what day(s) seem to make the most sense.

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## gbrice75

It seems to me that since there is flexibility in choosing your daily caloric intake, there is no reason anybody has to lose muscle on this program. If your TDEE is 2500 and you're eating 3000 cals/day, you'll be at a 100 calorie deficit (based on them saying the training burns roughly 600 calories) which is not going to cause any major muscle loss. If anything, you'd probably maintain muscle and get shredded! Or, up calories to 3200 and you could possibly add some muscle. Am I off track in thinking this way?

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## First6

Hey gbrice. I've been doing it for a while now. I am half way through my second 90days. I love it and think it is a great mix while your still trying to lose bf. When you finally hit maint, it may be to much cardio. I totally disagree that you can't get big off of it. You won't win any comps but you can def get some nice size out of it. Especially on a cycle. You can add a few things to it if you want. I add some things on cardio days. (shrugs, ez bar etc..) 
The diet is good but I prefer the the one I got from here as it is built for ME and not for the mass public.
Some positives to add to your list:
1 hour a day
it's at home
no gym fees
wifey can do it with you.

Hey - PM me on how that Omron is working out for ya.

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## bucks_243

Thats why I'm researching it. My hour run and 2 hr lifting still isn't taking care of the BF%. I am a hard gainer so every pound of me (200lbs). I have sweated for in the gym, I don't want to loose a ton of it cutting but if I retain most of my mass and strength and lose BF% that would be great. The diets to me look like they are defiantely for loseing fat, hardly any carbs OR protien. Wonder if I could follow the diet and drink a Pro Complex weight gainer 2X's daily. That diet just isnt enough to maintain mass.

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## crazypat123

great program for getting cut, its pretty rough tho

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## yannick35

Love P90X will be starting Insanity soon.

For me P90X is more of a mid life crisis program, where at some point people who are near there forties like me, being 38 need to prove that they can still kick a$$.

P90X is a total body training program, there is Kenpo X, Yoga X wish many have complained is to long still you can do the first 40 minutes and you are alright, Stretch X which is amazing for your 7 day rest.

Its good for someone who as limited space, limited equipment, you can always buy resistance bands but dumbells are always best, a chin up bar, you dont need to yoga blocks or push up gimmick, i used my 40 pound db to do push ups on them.

Positive is that its a total program with diet, and you will work every aspect of your health, many people found Tony Horton annoying, i found him pretty cool and inspiring this guy is 51 now remember that and he is in sick shape. Pop in a dvd and there is no guess work, the plan is complete, when to train, when to take breaks, and more.

Negative, well depending on your goals you will not gain mass from this but you can build one hell of a great body, its hard at first, but you got 90 days to pick up so...... if you stick to it you will improve.

So far beachbodies is putting out some amazing product , either it be P90X, Insanity and more, they have come a long way in the world of dumb infomercial crap that as been sold for the past few years. Last good one was tae bo by Billy Blanks.

P90X like Insanity is not for everyone, you will have to push yourself when doing them, to reach the level of fitness to be able to complete each dvd. 

There is a warm up for each P90X dvd, when i first did it i was having problems getting true the warm up, but as the first weeks go buy you can see your cardio will change and you will get better and the warm up will become a joke.

When i did it i took creatine for recuperation. It was hard because i was coming back from a back pain injury and i did struggle at some point.

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## gbrice75

I am still considering giving it a shot. The one big negative for me is the fact that I LOVE going to the gym and don't want to give it up. It's like my sanctuary; sad as it may sound, it's the highlight of my day. I go first thing in the morning and then it's all downhill from there. Can I still do this workout in the gym, or do you have to be watching the DVD's and doing the workout along with them?

I really do want to cut. I am sick and tired of carrying around this stubborn blubber, and whatever i've done in the past just hasn't worked. I went as far as 1800 calories on a very clean diet, continued my training and cardio and still had the blubber. Hopefully P90X will break me through and allow me to get that 10% BF which I so desparately what. HOWEVER...

I am still VERY concerned about losing LBM. I am not very muscular to begin with, and far from big. So I cannot afford to lose muscle. Alot of people said that you will most definitely lose muscle on this program. From what I understand, the diet has caloric ranges, so I could in theory do the program and eat at maintenance, or just above and let all the cardio do the cutting for me. Am I on track here?

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## JJ78

GBrice,

Yeah you can do them at the gym. Order the set and you get 2 books and dvds.

One book is the diet plan and the other is th workouts and descriptions.
Watch the dvd at home first and once you understand the excercises you can do them at the gym. you will be working alot harder than most people at the gym.

My girl does this.

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## JJ78

You wont lose mass if you eat, and eat some more of the right shit and use proper weights for the excercises.

As I said before I never actually finished the 90 days.

I do however do the AB Ripper X dvd 3 times a week and do the yoga every so often.(it sucks. its hard and lasts 1.5 hours)

The Ab dvd is 359 reps. I think. In 16mins. It is tough but you feel it. 
And it feels gOOOOOd!

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## gbrice75

JJ78, thanks for the replies. I am considering doing the program while running clen + keto to help things along a bit.

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## fatacad

I did the whole 90 days, and followed the diet plan almost to perfection. My main goal was to add mass and get fit all around.. like you. I started off 5'10 175 pounds, slightly out of shape, and ended on day 90 at 156 pounds. Now I was a beast at cardio when i finished, i was firm and toned and my cardio was great even though I'm a smoker... but i gained no mass whatsoever. I'm pretty sure I didn't eat enough calories even though I counted, and maybe didn't lift heavy enough. Just make sure to eat and lift heavy enough, but don't expect to add 15 pounds of muscle

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## gbrice75

> I did the whole 90 days, and followed the diet plan almost to perfection. My main goal was to add mass and get fit all around.. like you. I started off 5'10 175 pounds, slightly out of shape, and ended on day 90 at 156 pounds. Now I was a beast at cardio when i finished, i was firm and toned and my cardio was great even though I'm a smoker... but i gained no mass whatsoever. I'm pretty sure I didn't eat enough calories even though I counted, and maybe didn't lift heavy enough. Just make sure to eat and lift heavy enough, but don't expect to add 15 pounds of muscle


You lost 19lbs - your best guess... how much would you say was fat? Do you really think it was all fat, or do you feel you lost some muscle as well? Did strength decrease at all?

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## fatacad

> You lost 19lbs - your best guess... how much would you say was fat? Do you really think it was all fat, or do you feel you lost some muscle as well? Did strength decrease at all?


By the time I finished I had very little fat. I'd say I lost about 5-7 pounds of muscle.. but strength increased. Bicep measurements stayed the same but chest measurements were smaller. However I tripled my pushup and pullup max and added 15lbs to dumbbells. It's a great program for cutting and all around fitness, but just make sure you eat enough

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## fatacad

> You lost 19lbs - your best guess... how much would you say was fat? Do you really think it was all fat, or do you feel you lost some muscle as well? Did strength decrease at all?


BTW I'm back up to 175 with lifting, so the muscle lost is easily regained in my experience

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## boz

Hmm where to begin - Well basically long story cut short, I have had a injury with my wrist for the last 6+ months plus and it does cause alot of pain when I start to lift heavy. Which is why I have been out of the gym for how ever long this injury had occured. Yes a phew of u are probably thinking, I still could of kept active with cardio and not neglecting the rest of my whole body.

Anyway word of mouth from a friend said give p90x a go, he said I would def see results. Now I have been recently been doing it on and off but haven't officaly started the program, reason being I am just trying blend into the program without jumping straight into from 1 - 90 days. Been so long since I been gym. IMO it is really *TOUGH*

Positives:
No gym Fees
Very flexible when you need to do ya training (no trading hours like gym's)
That guy tony does keep ya motivated IMO, big mentor
Don't need machines like in gyms.

Negatives:
You do kinda need a friend to do it with, the program and can get lonesome and anti-social doing it on ya own
Doing it in ya own home, can be very annoying because your in ya comfort zone which can cause slacking u off, espically doing it on ya own. Where as the gym has good atmosphere u feel the pump. That vibe to really train when ya there, if u know what I mean.
It really is a tough program and isn't for the faint hearted. If u don't stick at it and are not committed jump off the band wagon, cause your waisting your time and racking up a hefty electricity bill. :Icon Rolleyes:

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