# MEMBERS EXPERIENCES > OVER 40 FORUM >  over 50

## LL08

Hi, It is my first post in here so g'day all. now just quickly if anyone can help I would be most appreciative. I'm training up my dad who is about to turn 55 and would love to know if anyone has advice on training regimes for someone just starting back at the gym,

For now he is doing it 100percent natural. I would like to get him fit and leaner first and then we can talk about other substances. So primary goal is to get some strength back from the gym. For cardio i'm taking him running and also cycling. Let me know what would be a good way to start him off. I wanna go pretty easy so as not to put him off.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated thanks so much guys

LL

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## Cutty

good for him. i started my old man around then too. he had been an ironman/aerobic type guy and really got into the muscle scene. did a bodybuilding show at 64, came in second in the over 50s. i would steer clear of the ballistic movements and the westside power type stuff. go with 3-4 days a week, work a simple little bodybuilding program incorporating standard basic movements. work on time under tension for hypertrophy--don't worry so much about reps. change exercises every month or so. might want to caution you that leg presses lying down may not be the best thing for an older guy's ticker, blood pressure wise. remember he may get pretty f-in sore. in a few months maybe some creatine, glucosamine, then obviously "hrt" at some point is pure magic. good luck lad.

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## bluethunder

First thing is get a okay from a doc. He will check for normal stuff like bp, family traits, EKG for heart condition. When he gets the okay Personally I would start him strickly on machines doing moderate weight circuit type training, going around twice. After one month slowly get him into free weights excluding all heavy weights. IMO no need to do squats unless he is in good shape and has min/no back issues, if not start him on the smith. Remember rest/recuperation is a bit longer for older people and he may tire easily at first so your patience is warranted. Initially just have him do basic exercises nothing to extream or fancy like good mornings, spider curls, ect. I would also suggest a 3 day split like M-W-F then adjusting to his desires and goals.

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## spywizard

yea.. that's pretty serious.. a checkup would be great... 

remember his body wont' respond as quickly as it used to.. 

lots of water, and 40/30/30 protein/carbs/fats.. and.... lots of rest.. 

his diet will give him more results than working out 5 times per week..

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## tough old man

Well I started last july at the age of 52. So I'm a little younger. I now do everything the young do. I started out on free weights working at home. I train heavy 5 days a week. I do cardio first thing upon awakening for 45 min's 5 days a week also. I gone from 307 lbs with my B/F at a whooping 36% to 235 lbs and now around 16%. I'm now working with a nutritionist to get my b/f down to 10% and then will have him bulk me up over the next year to 280 lbs. I start my 2nd cycle next Mon 5/2/05.

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## mesomorph

Actually, whatever worked best when he was young will still work best now. No need to change the volume or anything. At least that is what I find to be true. But he won't be putting on the muscle anywhere near as quickly as he did in his 20's. You can't get discouraged, got to just keep plugging along. Probably should look into glucosamine before too long. I tell you though, it's amazing what the "substances" still do for us ole folks. I am now twice as strong as I was in my 20's. Man I love my gear. (The last year I worked out totally natural was at 43, and was already noticing all the slowing effects of reduced natural test levels and the like). I am 49 now.

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## LL08

Thanks a lot for all your most helpful replies.Bluethunder im liking your recomendations they seem to be very sensible as I'd like to be on the safe side as I'm sure you understand. Mesomorph your a true motivation you look amazing in your avatar. Tough old man sounds like your doing awesome as well. Spywizard i'm looking at his diet and i agree with what you said. And cutty thanks for your advice good that it is a do-able task. At the moment this is his training as of the last month. 

Monday - am gym, pm walk, 
Tuesday, pm walk, 
Wednesday pm Tennis, 
Thursday pm walk, 
Friday am gym, 
Sat off
Sun - run or cycle. 

Any suggestions? replace the walks with gym? Tennis is high intensity so i want to keep away from tiring him near this. 

My aim is to get him to the gym 3 times a week firstly and thanks for the recomendation for him seeing a dr first bluethunder and spywizard. Its funny how I see a dr for bloodwork etc for my training but it didn't cross my mind for him. A bit silly in hindsight. 

Anyway He was an amazing athlete back in his 20s competing for australia but he has lost a lot. I'm not sure about bf% but it isn't that low etc he is 5'9" and weighs 87kg. I'll get him to the dr this week and will then up the training. I'm being on the safe side lately. I want him to drop some body fat firstly and slowly start building the strength back up. His back and shoulders are his weakest areas but arms and chest closely follow suit. Any more specific recomendations for what I should include in his circuit? Any advice again would be very much appreciated. Cheers again guys

-LL

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## bluethunder

Okay, he is around 193lbs(87kg) at 5'9" tall. You said is back/shoulders/arms/chest are weak points. My guess(only) is that he has a high body fat % which is normal by the way for most middle age folks. And that is around his belly. Since he was a great athelete when he was younger you need to make sure he does not try to overdo himself thinking like he did years ago. He could get discouraged sooner. If it is true about waistline fat then he is more susceptable to things like diabetis/ stroke and heart attack if he is not conditioned. So a EKG is paramount. Many men can tire in the gym feel somewhat okay only a short time later fall victim to a heart attack because their heart muscle is taxed too much within a short time frame. I disagree with one statement about lifting the same as he were young. Don't do it. He is not on any anabolics. If fat loss is his immediate short term goal then MWF am cardio empty stomach and TUE/THU weights. How you split body parts on those two day is by prioritizing. Weaker/lagging first. This along with is daily/weekend fun/stuff like tennis and a sound diet approach will do the trick in time. Sat/Sun are complete rest days from the gym . If he starts to get less motivated then I would suggest him working his favorite body part (like biceps/tris for most men) really hard and only that part for the short time. As soon as he begins to get positive comments from people about his guns and looking good his ego will take over from there. Psychology is part of a healthy living.

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## MrMondodondo

How about starting him on a circuit for a few weeks to get his body acclimated to the weights. I started back with a circuit post Heart-Attack. I think this is a very good way to begin.

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## bluethunder

> How about starting him on a circuit for a few weeks to get his body acclimated to the weights. I started back with a circuit post Heart-Attack. I think this is a very good way to begin.


Good point as that is what I suggested in my first reply. There is a reason/purpose for machines.

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## mesomorph

> I disagree with one statement about lifting the same as he were young. Don't do it. He is not on any anabolics.


Well you have to take my statement in the context in which I wrote it. I said that putting on the mass would happen slower at our age. And admittedly the starting point he is at now is way below where he was because he hasn't been doing anything. So He would have to start out as a person that is in bad shape period, that part is not related to age. Then as I said, he will come back slower than he would have when he was younger. But the point is your bodies basic response to stimuli does not change. If you were a hard gainer and always had lean mass all your life, you will when you are old, and the basic program that will still work best is the hard gainer program that worked when you were young. If you put on mass easy and could spend 2 hours in the gym 3 days a week, then EVENTUALLY, after he gets back into some kind of shape, he will most likely still be able to do that. I am not saying that he will get as strong as he did back then; I am saying his body will still respond the best to the training styles he used in the past, after he gets over the hump of being in bad shape. The only change I noticed is my capacity for cardio is lower, but I have heard of a lot of guys our age that intentionally do more of that as a result, and they say you can get most of that back too with some extra effort. Like you all said though, that doctors exam sounds good first.

I never used any kind of anabolic my whole life until I reached 43. But I continued to workout regularly the whole time all those years continually trying different things. I did that after I was on too, and even then, what works best for me, continues to be what works best.

Please don't miss what I said about taking glucosamine. That stuff is a miracle worker for older folks. It wouldn't be wise to wait until he tells you all of his old joints are killing him before you take my advice and look into getting some of that.

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## Dowstrategy

I am 55 5'9" ex- Marine 190 Pretty solid except for abs where I got a roll. As BT said most guys (except for that freak Meso j/k) have it and its ****ing hard to get rid of. I got started back last year the way BT recommended by doing cardio and machines on circuit. I moved to free weights after a coupla months of the machines. Can't squat because of an arthritic knee but do leg presses with no problems. The glucosimine worked wonders for for me! I take it as Glucosimine Chondrotin (ortho doc recommended) which is glucosimine and chondrotin. It took about 6 weeks to really notice anything but it workes well (my doc says about 60% of the people will not benefit). I have cycled twice in the last year with good results.

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## mesomorph

> I am 55 5'9" ex- Marine 190 Pretty solid except for abs where I got a roll. As BT said most guys (except for that freak Meso j/k) have it and its ****ing hard to get rid of. I got started back last year the way BT recommended by doing cardio and machines on circuit. I moved to free weights after a coupla months of the machines. Can't squat because of an arthritic knee but do leg presses with no problems. The glucosimine worked wonders for for me! I take it as Glucosimine Chondrotin (ortho doc recommended) which is glucosimine and chondrotin. It took about 6 weeks to really notice anything but it workes well (my doc says about 60% of the people will not benefit). I have cycled twice in the last year with good results.


Yeah, me too, with MSM even, it doesn't hardly cost any more to have all 3. The bottle says to take like 3 a day, but I just take one every day which works out too 500mg glucosamine, 400mg chondroitin, and 133mg MSM. I get Puritan's Pride just because I always seem to find it to be the cheapest.

I heard you never call a Marine an "ex", suppose to be very disrespectful, "former" I was told, lol, but true. Marines are an awesome special breed, a few of my best best buddies were. I can understand you still trying to take care of yourself, sounds like you still maintain that mental discipline.

I do struggle with the weight / fat, mostly as the classic "love handles", you notice that isn't a back shot don't you? The gear helps that a lot too though. Thanks you all though for the compliments, I wish I could say I was 100% natural instead of 300%, and take all the credit.

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## LL08

Thankyou all very much. To update you all. He has seen the doc and has checked out ok. I suggested getting blood tests too so he is going back for that and we'll see what comes up next week. 

As for training and progress he is visibly looking better although weight isn't coming off as quickly as I thought it may. He has lost 2kg in 3-4 weeks. So he is at 84.6kg on average now. I guess he has done well in a short time.

He is doing his usual walks, plus gym three times a week doing 30-40min cardio and then a circuit for his upper body like Bluethunder recomended. As well as this he is playing tennis and going for one run a week. 

His diet is good, he eats oats and yogurt for breakfast with a glass of green tea, tuna and bread or rice for lunch and dinner is either steak with rice, stir fri's or something similar. He is cutting back on his unecesary eatting too. We aim to get him down below 80 in the next two months...How do I achieve this with him?

-LL

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## bluethunder

Good to hear . Remember, gains come more slowly as ones ages and harder to loose the blubber too. Hormonal changes are partly the reasoning. At 55 yrs old natural test/gh/insulin ect is lower but the estrogens can stay about the same. So the test/estro ratio balance is much less favorable. The less better the ratio is equivalent to increasing your estrogen in a simplified way. This is one main reason it is harder, more fat storage, less strength ect...

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## LL08

> Good to hear . Remember, gains come more slowly as ones ages and harder to loose the blubber too. Hormonal changes are partly the reasoning. At 55 yrs old natural test/gh/insulin ect is lower but the estrogens can stay about the same. So the test/estro ratio balance is much less favorable. The less better the ratio is equivalent to increasing your estrogen in a simplified way. This is one main reason it is harder, more fat storage, less strength ect...


Ok great info and I do know this but how do I relate this to the situation. Are you suggesting getting some test subscribed from the dr. Or what is your advice? I would love for him to get under 80 sometime shortly. The benefits for his healthy and welbeing will be tremendous not to mention for him mentally. Thanks again bluethunder and well done on 2k posts.From what I have seen they're not just BS posts either so thats huge. kudos

-LL

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## LL08

> Ok great info and I do know this but how do I relate this to the situation. Are you suggesting getting some test subscribed from the dr. Or what is your advice? I would love for him to get under 80 sometime shortly. The benefits for his healthy and welbeing will be tremendous not to mention for him mentally. Thanks again bluethunder and well done on 2k posts.From what I have seen they're not just BS posts either so thats huge. kudos
> 
> -LL


Also to add to this question..I am getting him to see a doc this week about blood tests. What should I get him to check. He said his doc will do it if I give him a list of what I, or more correctly you, think he should get done. Cheers guys your life savers for real. Kudos to all of you 1000x over.

-LL

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## mesomorph

> Ok great info and I do know this but how do I relate this to the situation. Are you suggesting getting some test subscribed from the dr. Or what is your advice? I would love for him to get under 80 sometime shortly. The benefits for his healthy and welbeing will be tremendous not to mention for him mentally. Thanks again bluethunder and well done on 2k posts.From what I have seen they're not just BS posts either so thats huge. kudos
> 
> -LL


If he could get that from a doc that would be awesome. The first supplement I went on was 100mg Andro, only 3 - 4 days a week, right before working out. It took a month or 2 to see the that I was picking up muscle much faster than natural, but I couldn't believe the difference in my libido, sense of well being, lessening of mood swings immediately ... All of the problems/symptoms related to low test went away. Granted, Andro is outdated, now illegal, and hard to find. That is not my point, the point is test therapy would be incredibly awesome if you could find a doctor who was willing. 

I think they always test your levels first, otherwise it wouldn't be legal to prescribe it. But if they did and then gave him enough to just be on the high side of normal male in his 20's the difference would be unbelievable.

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## bluethunder

No I was not advocating him getting on anything but blood work and discussion with his doc they can make a decsion. Women get menopause in their 40's+ men get Andropause . Most likely he will qualify for some TRT of some type typically 100mg every two weeks or weekly then redoing the blood work 4-6 weeks later to get the steady test level. Make sure he gets estridiol (estrogens) taken too because that is the key. It is the ratio of test vs. estro that is what really matters. Take both total testosterone and free unbound testesterone. It is the free that really does its thing in the male body. Usually it is about 3-4% of the total test value. Standard blood panel CBC, PSA and a physical check of his prostate for excessive enlargement. The doc has to run is finger up the poop shoot. Fun stuff I had it done 4 months ago. EKG may also be helpful to make sure his heart condition is good to go. Thanks for the kudo's most of my 2k post have been replies.

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## mesomorph

> No I was not advocating him getting on anything but blood work and discussion with his doc they can make a decsion. Women get menopause in their 40's+ men get Andropause. Most likely he will qualify for some TRT of some type typically 100mg every two weeks or weekly then redoing the blood work 4-6 weeks later to get the steady test level. Make sure he gets estridiol (estrogens) taken too because that is the key. It is the ratio of test vs. estro that is what really matters. Take both total testosterone and free unbound testesterone. It is the free that really does its thing in the male body. Usually it is about 3-4% of the total test value. Standard blood panel CBC, PSA and a physical check of his prostate for excessive enlargement. The doc has to run is finger up the poop shoot. Fun stuff I had it done 4 months ago. EKG may also be helpful to make sure his heart condition is good to go. Thanks for the kudo's most of my 2k post have been replies.


Ok, I am sure you are correct, lol. All I know is that at our age something like this makes an incredible difference. I definitely had andropause , because from 40 on I was slowly loosing strength for the first time in my life, slowly, but enough so I was sure that I was. And in my case, after about 3 months on the Andro as I described, at 43 years old, I had beat all my previous PR's even those from at 26 year old.

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## andromean

i'm 52 and been at this working out thing for 25 years. I might not be as strong or fast as i was 20 years ago but the lifestyle has kept me going through all the ups and downs and i'm more into now than I was at 30 .

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