# MEMBERS EXPERIENCES > OVER 40 FORUM >  I start my cycle today for 2010 summer

## kaju

my cycle will be a 16 week cycle. The first eight weeks will be -
andromix (Testosterone propionate 50mg, Trenbolone acetate 50mg, Drostanolone propionate 50mg) 1cc every other day. 
Then eight weeks of sustonon 250 200mg twice a week with 50mg of tbol every day weeks 9-15 with standard protocal for PCT
My body fat index is 12%. I am 5'9" and weigh 215lbs. These are my before pics I took today. It is hard to take pics of yourself but I managed I just wish I could have gotten beter quality for this. I will keep everyone posted on my progress as I go through this as I did last year.

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## jjfman

I can't comment on the cycle setup as I'm yet to run an injectable cycle myself, but If I'd of seen this pictures before you began this cycle I would of said lower the bf% 

But I wish you all the best man, I'll be following keep us posted

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## kaju

> I can't comment on the cycle setup as I'm yet to run an injectable cycle myself, but If I'd of seen this pictures before you began this cycle I would of said lower the bf% 
> 
> But I wish you all the best man, I'll be following keep us posted


I realized you could not see the caliper in the original pic so I'm reposting it. You can now see it is at 12% but I took it from five locations and averaged them and it again came to 12%

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## kaju

a repost of the calipers

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## Vitruvian-Man

T-bol for 3 weeks? I double probably double that length, or otherwise just drop it. 

Otherwise, have fun bro..

-VM

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## gym_junki

ok ur going to swish from test prop which is a shot ester to sus which is a long ester, if u cut out the prop at week 8 and start the sus that will be wrong cos the prop will leave ur body in 3days and it will take the sus 3weeks to kick in so what u need to do is run the prop with the sus till it kicks in.

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## gym_junki

sorry I'm using my phone. Lol dictionary stuffed up the words. don't cut out the prop unless the sus has kicked in

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## kaju

> T-bol for 3 weeks? I double probably double that length, or otherwise just drop it. 
> 
> Otherwise, have fun bro..
> 
> -VM


Im sorry I had to go back and edit it. it should have read weeks 9-15. that is 7 weeks.

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## kaju

> sorry I'm using my phone. Lol dictionary stuffed up the words. don't cut out the prop unless the sus has kicked in





> ok ur going to swish from test prop which is a shot ester to sus which is a long ester, if u cut out the prop at week 8 and start the sus that will be wrong cos the prop will leave ur body in 3days and it will take the sus 3weeks to kick in so what u need to do is run the prop with the sus till it kicks in.


im with you. but sustanon 250 is an oil-based injectable containing four different testosterone compounds: testosterone propionate, 30 mg; testosterone phenylpropionate, 60 mg; testosterone isocaproate, 60mg; and testosterone decanoate, 100 mg. The mixture of the testosterones are time-released to provide an immediate effect while still remaining active in the body for up to a month. 
it has prop in it so I think I will be ok doing the way I plan. it is a long and short ester My only problem will be PCT. first because it is a long cycle at my age. 2nd at my age going back to natural test production is hard. 3rd sustonon is hard to go behind in PCT.

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## gym_junki

i kno sus is got 4 diffrent esters but i still think u should run it in with the prop till it kicks in. up to u though. whats ur pct look like?

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## yannick35

Keep us updated can't wait to see your results.

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## kaju

> i know sus is got 4 different esters but i still think u should run it in with the prop till it kicks in. up to u though. whats ur pct look like?


Did you read the sustanon profile breakdown? Sustanon has test prop in it. When I switch I will still be running prop.
It has *"testosterone propionate - 30 mg"* It has an active live of approximately 36 hours. since I will be running TBOL which has a life of 16 hours I will be feeling it in about 3 days. I may not see the results of TBOL for about two weeks. but I will feel it.

testosterone phenyl propionate - 60 mg-This particular ester gives us an active life of 4-5 days, falling just between the Propionate (short) and Cypionate (long) versions of Testosterone. again this ester is supposed to be considered medium ester. It will take about two weeks to kick in.

testosterone isocaproate - 60mg - this one has an active life of about 8 days. this is considered a long ester. It would take about three weeks to kick in. At this point you would be correct in saying to continue the other test ester.

testosterone decanoate -100 mg This one has an active life of 15 days. Again you would be correct even more so because it will take about on month to kick in.

In short I will still be running test prop all along. I will be dropping the dose a little but With the added TBOL and the other medium ester I am only going to be thrown off for about a few days. Since I am not competing or doing a body building show it is not that important to me. I will be just fine.
My goal is not to build giant muscles but to lean out and have the added enhancement to my exercise.
Thank you for the input. this is what this forum is all about. so keep on posting. this is how we learn.
My pct will be a three week clomid and nolva

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## yannick35

Great, when you finish your cycle i will probably be starting mine, great to see what results you got from your cycle, how much you retain and all.

I will be running test only myself but maybe lower dosage since its been so long 10 years last time i did anabolics.

For me it will be a good idea to lower bodyfat because i am a lot more then 12%, right now i am at 22% which is too high and a waste for me.

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## kaju

I forgot to mention Andromix is a mix that is in a single vial 1 cc is 150mg. I should have made this more clear in my first post.

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## FireGuy

> I realized you could not see the caliper in the original pic so I'm reposting it. You can now see it is at 12% but I took it from five locations and averaged them and it again came to 12%


Thats not how a caliper formula works. Not trying to be an ass but you are nowhere near 12% bodyfat. Plus you should be pinching the much much thicker bodyfat a few inches further back if you are taking a kidney measurement.

This may help you.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=382456

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## kaju

> Thats not how a caliper formula works. Not trying to be an ass but you are nowhere near 12% bodyfat. Plus you should be pinching the much much thicker bodyfat a few inches further back if you are taking a kidney measurement.
> 
> This may help you.
> http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=382456


Thankk you for the help.
I was fallowing the directions and formuula that came with the callipers I have.
following the formula you gave my body fat came out to 11%. I know I didnt loose 1% bodyfat in one week but either way Im not going to worry a whole lot about it. I just wanted to be at 12% before I started my cycle. I will do another measurment at half way and another at the end of my cycle. Thanks for the help.

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## FireGuy

^^No problem, whatever the calipers say its not going to change a thing on how you look. I will say I dont think you are using them correctly. I have calipered over a thousand people and I am sure from looking at your picture your kidney pinch alone should be well over 40mm. If you were at 11% you would have a defined 6 pack and your serratus and obliques would have crisp detail to them. You will also have near zero "love handles" at 11%.

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## yannick35

BF % is way over rated, i am 20% at 210 pounds, i have seen guys at 180 pounds who train and have 22% bf.

Mine was a cellular test i got from my sport doctor.

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## FireGuy

> *BF % is way over rated*, i am 20% at 210 pounds, i have seen guys at 180 pounds who train and have 22% bf.
> 
> Mine was a cellular test i got from my sport doctor.


I couldnt disagree with this statement any stronger. Do you consider the amount of muscle you carry way overrated as well? Cause it's the same thing. Bodyfat percentage should be of the upmost importance to anyone seeking to improve their physique. Monitoring your BF% is the absolute hands down best way to gauge progress of your training, diet and cardio schedule. If you gain 5lbs it is imperative you determing if it was fat or muscle. Same goes if you lose 5lbs. All adjustments to diet, training and cardio should be made off of what is currently going on with the composition of your body. This is why I was being adamant that the OP get an accurate measurement. I get my body comps done weekly and do the same for anyone I work with. The value if KNOWING what is working and what is not is invaluable and can save months of guesswork and mistakes.

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## turk1968

I agree , knowing your body fat is very important to monitoring progress when on /off cycle.

I find the easiest way of monitoring bf is to pick five or six places which you feel have the most fat and measure and record them . Make it easy and measure where you have a mole or mark on the skin so you can be consistant in the spot each time you measure. This cannot be put into a formula to get a % but it will sure give you an indication of your progress. I have records from the last 5 years since i have been back training seriously and it cetainly gives you motivation to look back at some of your good and bad numbers along with your body weight at the time.

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## kaju

> ^^No problem, whatever the calipers say its not going to change a thing on how you look. I will say I don't think you are using them correctly. I have calipered over a thousand people and I am sure from looking at your picture your kidney pinch alone should be well over 40mm. If you were at 11% you would have a defined 6 pack and your serratus and obliques would have crisp detail to them. You will also have near zero "love handles" at 11%.


If you have calipered over a thousand people - This makes you an authority on this subject.
I followed the instructions that came with the calipers and it read 12%.
I went back and studied your thread (very educational BTW) and I seen where I made my mistake. to much to type out here so i digress.
in the picture I was not flexing. when I flex and am dehydrated such as after a very strenuous workout you can see a full six pack and see the obliques. Just today I lifted my shirt to show my wife and flexed. I am the type of person that carries most of my fat on my back. Last year when I finished my cycle MY calipers read 10% going by the instructions that came with it. I had a very clear six pack and my obliques were very crisp and clear. but I still had that damn fat on my back.
I hope to be rid of that this year. I'm off to a good start. I just hope life does not get in the way to stop me this year as IT seems to do sometimes.

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## John86

How is your cycle going? I am interested in how the Andromix is working for you. I like the stack and was wanting to hear first hand how effective it is.

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## kaju

I am at four and a half weeks in and I am feeling like I am on top of the world. I have been sticking very Good to my diet except for this past week end being the 4th of July. I did over eat and have a few beers. I Have not missed any work outs. Every one is commenting on how it seems I am loosing weight. 

My goal is not to grow large muscles but to lean out and have a hard look plus the benefits of performance enhancement. 

I will keep everyone informed as I go through this.

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## John86

So how is the cycle going now? How much bodyfat have you lost?

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## MACHINE5150

> I realized you could not see the caliper in the original pic so I'm reposting it. You can now see it is at 12% but I took it from five locations and averaged them and it again came to 12%


You are not at 12%.. those numbers need to be filled into a calculator.. it looks to me like you are closer to 20%.. nothing wrong with that, as that is where i am.. take the measurements and then enter the numbers into this website and add age height weight and it will give you the correct % 

http://www.linear-software.com/online.html

that way you will have a better idea of what your gains are

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