# GENERAL FORUM > IN THE NEWS >  obama: what a joke

## lotaquestions

this guy donated less than 1% of his million+ earnings this past year, not really democratic huh? i bet that he wont be as stingy with my money. that is only around $10000! i made around 90k and i gave my church (to promote a non racist agenda, unlike his) close to that. not only is he a racist he is a hypocrite. i dont expect any body to be perfect but come on man give me a break! this speaks more about his character than what his pastor/mentor/best friend said. 

we as steriod .com members should "donate" some of our money to get this guy a cycle. i thought that he looked anerexic because he was giving "so much," to help out all the people that the white man keeps down, but that is obviously not the case.

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## barondumonde

lol...wow...good info on his earning and donation record. I don't like Obama at all, although it seems every young person and liberal idiot in this country has obama fever.

Ron Paul was the only hope for a decent future. Now, we're ****ed. I don't even plan on voting. It doesn't even matter anymore.

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## Act of God

Do you have a link for the source of that information? I'd love to pass it along to everyone who thinks he's the new Fonzi

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## LawMan018

> this guy donated less than 1% of his million+ earnings this past year, not really democratic huh? i bet that he wont be as stingy with my money. that is only around $10000! i made around 90k and i gave my church (to promote a non racist agenda, unlike his) close to that. not only is he a racist he is a hypocrite. i dont expect any body to be perfect but come on man give me a break! this speaks more about his character than what his pastor/mentor/best friend said. 
> 
> we as steriod.com members should "donate" some of our money to get this guy a cycle. i thought that he looked anerexic because he was giving "so much," to help out all the people that the white man keeps down, but that is obviously not the case.


Donated less then 1%? Sounds like a Conservative Republican to me =)

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## SMCengineer

Conservative republicans aren't the ones preaching "shared wealth" homie.

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## SMCengineer

Oh, and just for the record. Conservatives actually do donate more than liberals on average.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18218

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## BgMc31

> this guy donated less than 1% of his million+ earnings this past year, not really democratic huh? i bet that he wont be as stingy with my money. that is only around $10000! i made around 90k and i gave my church (to promote a non racist agenda, unlike his) close to that. not only is he a racist he is a hypocrite. i dont expect any body to be perfect but come on man give me a break! this speaks more about his character than what his pastor/mentor/best friend said. 
> 
> we as steriod.com members should "donate" some of our money to get this guy a cycle. i thought that he looked anerexic because he was giving "so much," to help out all the people that the white man keeps down, but that is obviously not the case.


That's an out and out lie. Post the link! If you have listened and/or read through the report thoroughly, you would notice that 5 yrs ago, he donated 1%. But throughout the years (over the last 7yrs) his donations fluctuated between 1 and 7% of his income to charity. I guess you also didn't read that the reason for his minimual contribution was because of student loan burdens but he has increased his donations throughout the 7yrs.

And lastly, where's the proof that Obama's a racist? No where has he ever said anything or act out any racist ideology. Just because his pastor said somethings doesn't make Obama himself a racist. How many people do you know that have told racists jokes or believed racial stereotyes? Since you know those people, does that make you a racists? Considering Obama's church is 99% white (with only 3 black services a week), and the fact that Obama himself is half white, does that make every white person that attends that Church racists as well? What exactly did rev. Wright say that was racists anyway? Just because someone speaks of the truthful shortcomings of a particular people doesn't make them racists. Conservative talk show host have no problem sighting the shortcomings of minorities and their problems, why is not ok for a minority to do so?

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## McJuicer

he earned 1.2million in 2005 and donated like $175,000 or so...thats more than 1%...

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## lotaquestions

i just learned how to check my email like 3 months ago, i havnt figured out how to post a link. i heard it on the austin rose show a local talk radio host. check this guys numbers before he had political asperations.

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## BgMc31

copy and paste, genius. Its not that hard. Conservative radio has a tendency to spin news in their favor. You should do your research before you post. You still haven't proven your statements as to why Obama's a racist as well.

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## lotaquestions

> That's an out and out lie. Post the link! If you have listened and/or read through the report thoroughly, you would notice that 5 yrs ago, he donated 1%. But throughout the years (over the last 7yrs) his donations fluctuated between 1 and 7% of his income to charity. I guess you also didn't read that the reason for his minimual contribution was because of student loan burdens but he has increased his donations throughout the 7yrs.
> 
> And lastly, where's the proof that Obama's a racist? No where has he ever said anything or act out any racist ideology. Just because his pastor said somethings doesn't make Obama himself a racist. How many people do you know that have told racists jokes or believed racial stereotyes? Since you know those people, does that make you a racists? Considering Obama's church is 99% white (with only 3 black services a week), and the fact that Obama himself is half white, does that make every white person that attends that Church racists as well? What exactly did rev. Wright say that was racists anyway? Just because someone speaks of the truthful shortcomings of a particular people doesn't make them racists. Conservative talk show host have no problem sighting the shortcomings of minorities and their problems, why is not ok for a minority to do so?


he didnt seem to worried about those student loans when he purchased his mill+ home, but i guess when you got "frank lucus" helping you out with the paper work it will ease your mind. since obama doesnt have ANY political history then we have to look into his personal life. this guy is running for president of the united states not manager of mcdonalds, the highest office in the world, and he shows up with three words on a napkin instead of a resume (hope, change, and free). he is making a joke out of the whole political process (as if it wasnt already bad enough). if you dont ever have to prove yourself (right or wrong) then hell the next president is lible to be paris hilton, she dosnt have any experience but she sure makes me feel good.

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## lotaquestions

> copy and paste, genius. Its not that hard. Conservative radio has a tendency to spin news in their favor. You should do your research before you post. You still haven't proven your statements as to why Obama's a racist as well.


if imus is racist and kramer is racist then i think that obama is just as qualified to be in the catagory. where there is smoke there is fire? every body who has had any influence on his life has been held great anamosity toward white people and america. i ticks me off that he thinks that he can make a 5 min speech to cover up for 20 years. to be honest i dont care if he is racist, heck i would vote for ferrican if he was running. he belives in segregation, and is open about it. he is not coming in with a hidden agenda like obama. 

it is more important to me that he wants to raise capitol gain tax to 25% than wether or not he wants to sit next to me a dinner table. let me get this strait mr. obama, i risk loosing a 100% of my money and through smart business make a profit you deserve 25% of my money to give to someone who dosnt even try to find a job? if i loose a 100% of my money than are you going to give me 25% of it back? didnt think so....i do like the way he worded it though as if he is only taking money from the rich people and not people like my parents who make a combo of 60gs a year and have tried to invest some, with the way that SS is looking and medicare, so that they may be able to retire with something.

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## BgMc31

> if imus is racist and kramer is racist then i think that obama is just as qualified to be in the catagory. where there is smoke there is fire? every body who has had any influence on his life has been held great anamosity toward white people and america. i ticks me off that he thinks that he can make a 5 min speech to cover up for 20 years. to be honest i dont care if he is racist, heck i would vote for ferrican if he was running. he belives in segregation, and is open about it. he is not coming in with a hidden agenda like obama. 
> 
> it is more important to me that he wants to raise capitol gain tax to 25% than wether or not he wants to sit next to me a dinner table. let me get this strait mr. obama, i risk loosing a 100% of my money and through smart business make a profit you deserve 25% of my money to give to someone who dosnt even try to find a job? if i loose a 100% of my money than are you going to give me 25% of it back? didnt think so....i do like the way he worded it though as if he is only taking money from the rich people and not people like my parents who make a combo of 60gs a year and have tried to invest some, with the way that SS is looking and medicare, so that they may be able to retire with something.


Boy the more you post...what Imus and Kramer 'SAID' were racists that is why they got the label, not their associations. Your arguments continue to be flawed. If you don't care if Obama is a racists, why do you keep trying to paint him as one?

Everyone in his life over 20yrs has a hatred of white America? Like his mother and his grandparents and all the other white family members he associated with. The last time I checked there aren't a whole lot of blacks in Hawaii either. And you still haven't showed my anything that what prove what Rev. Wright said was racists. Please site examples!

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## BgMc31

> he didnt seem to worried about those student loans when he purchased his mill+ home, but i guess when you got "frank lucus" helping you out with the paper work it will ease your mind. since obama doesnt have ANY political history then we have to look into his personal life. this guy is running for president of the united states not manager of mcdonalds, the highest office in the world, and he shows up with three words on a napkin instead of a resume (hope, change, and free). he is making a joke out of the whole political process (as if it wasnt already bad enough). if you dont ever have to prove yourself (right or wrong) then hell the next president is lible to be paris hilton, she dosnt have any experience but she sure makes me feel good.


So by your flawed logic a man can't purchase a home if he has student loans? That ridiculous. Keep trying dude. The more you post the more ridiculous your arguments become.

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## lotaquestions

i used the word racist onece in the whole first paragraph and that is obviously the only word that you can hear. this post is about how obama is a joke as a canidate. he has done absolutly nothing in the senate. i get it the man can make a speech. but if it has no substance what good is it? this man doesnt have any new ideas or solutions or record of doing any thing except affiliating with racist and being a die hard liberal on every matter. has he ever reached across the isle on any matter? and yet some how he can unite the goverment. it is absolutly rediculous how he can piss on peoples head and convince them it is rain....since the only thing that you can think about is race, give me an example of how he is not racist.

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## lotaquestions

> So by your flawed logic a man can't purchase a home if he has student loans? That ridiculous. Keep trying dude. The more you post the more ridiculous your arguments become.


i was commenting on you saying that he cant donate more to charity b/c of he was paying off his student loans. it is just funny to me since he cares so much about giving to the poor, that he would make sure that they had houses before he bought himself a mansion. reminds me of your hero al gore worried about pollution and riding in private jets.

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## lotaquestions

> Boy the more you post...what Imus and Kramer 'SAID' were racists that is why they got the label, not their associations. Your arguments continue to be flawed. If you don't care if Obama is a racists, why do you keep trying to paint him as one?
> 
> Everyone in his life over 20yrs has a hatred of white America? Like his mother and his grandparents and all the other white family members he associated with. The last time I checked there aren't a whole lot of blacks in Hawaii either. And you still haven't showed my anything that what prove what Rev. Wright said was racists. Please site examples!


examples of him being a racist: why did he choose to use his black half instead of his white? why did he marry a black woman instead of a white? why does he choose to hang around people who hold an anamosity towards white race? why does he take offense to comments about blacks and not whites? why does he choose to affiliate with a party that caters to the black race?......no, obama has never called me a craker or whitey b/c i do not know him personally, wich is the only way to truely know if someone is racist or not. i know what i see and i hear and that is all i truely have to go by. in my eyes i see as much evidence against him as i have against others who have been called racist who are white. you seem to be cought up on strom, how do you know that he is a racist.

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## thegodfather

You guys can bitch back and forth and speculate all day on whether you "THINK" Obama is a racist. Truth is until you see him wearing a Black Panthers jacket and marching down the street to re-institute segregation, or some other such nonsense, that is all you will be able to do is speculate. Instead, I chose to expose his Socialist ANTI-Constitutional policies&positions. 


From CNN:

*GUNS:*  _Supports extending the assault weapons ban. Supports national law against carrying concealed weapons, with exceptions for retired police and military personnel. Supports limiting gun sales to one per month._ 

Barack Obama wants to dismantle our 2nd Amendment right. Our last resort against tyranny and self defense against attackers. A typical liberal who would like people to become victimized and allow the police to take care of the persons attacker, post-mortem. 1) National laws enacted at the Federal level against the Bill of Rights are unconstitutional, the powers are reserved to the states respectively. 2) Statistics overwhelmingly prove that of the 38 states who have "Shall-Issue" conceal&carry permits, their violent crime rates dropped an average of 5-7% overall. Florida when it enacted it's "Shall-Issue" policy in the 80's, went from a murder rate 34% higher than the national average, and after implementing its Shall Issue policy, the murder rate was 4% BELOW the national average. Forget the fact that he is a Presidential candidate, people in general like this make me absolutely sick that they feel that we should penalize law-abiding tax paying citizens for trying to defend themselves, and encourage criminals to carry firearms. When you outlaw conceal&carry in an area, it becomes a criminal enabling zone, because they know that their victims are more than likely unarmed and will follow the law. I would rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6. 




*HEALTHCARE:*_Would create a national health insurance program for individuals who do not have employer-provided health care and who do not qualify for other existing federal programs. Allows individuals to choose between the new public insurance program or from among private insurance plans that meet certain coverage standards. Requires employers who do not provide health coverage for employees to pay into the national health insurance program. Does not mandate individual coverage for all Americans, but requires coverage for all children. Allows individuals below age 25 to be covered through their parents' plans. Cost estimated between $50 billion and $65 billion, to be paid for by eliminating Bush tax cuts for those earning over $250,000._ 

Need I even comment on this? He wants to raise taxes. We could dive into all sorts of reasons why taxing higher incomes disproportionately actually hurts the economy, mainly because when they are taxed higher their profit margin goes down so they often seek to make cutbacks in their companies, reducing jobs&pay for the lower incomed people. We all also know the "projected" costs and what it will actually cost is not based in reality. More than likely this will be paid for by PRINTING MORE MONEY and further decreasing the purchasing power of the American dollar. This looks "free" but it is really a smoke and mirrors game. 


*HOUSING:* _Proposes creating a $10 billion fund to help prevent foreclosures, eliminate some taxes and fees for families who must sell and offer counseling to homeowners. Announced a "credit card bill of rights" to provide disclosure of hidden credit costs. Would provide tax credits to 10 million middle class homeowners who struggle with mortgage costs._


SOCIALIST SOCIALIST SOCIALIST...Jesus ****in Christ... Ever heard of the free market or laissez-faire? No one in their right mind would REWARD lending companies for bad banking practices. If those banks and lenders go out of business, it is better for the consumer and the citizen. You also wreap what you sow, if you bought a house you clearly knew you could not afford you must take SOME accountability. However, quite typical of Obama's policies, it is not YOUR fault, its NEVER your fault. The government knows best, the government will take care of you, big brother to the rescue. 1)That 10 billion dollars is nowhere in the budget, it will most likely be once again PRINTED OUT OF THIN AIR, further inflating the currenchy and devaluing the purchasing power of ALL American tax payers. That means 350,000,000 people or so suffer with a weaker dollar, to save the houses of a select few who made purchases they could not afford. 


*ABORTION:*_Opposes any constitutional amendment to overturn the Supreme Court's decision in Roe v Wade. Disagreed with Supreme Court ruling to uphold the "Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act." Did not cast a vote on Prohibiting Funds for Groups that Perform Abortions amendment in 2007._

Another UNCONSTITUTIONAL policy from Barack Obama. There is no provision in the Constitution for Federal mandates that all the states had to adhere to. The powers to regulate abortion are reserved to the States and the PEOPLE respectively, NOT TO BIG GOVERNMENT! 


*EDUCATION:*_Would reform No Child Left Behind, ensuring access to high-quality early childhood education programs and child care opportunities, recruit well-qualified and reward expert, accomplished teachers. Make science and math education a national priority. Reduce the high school dropout rate and empower parents to raise healthy and successful children by taking a greater role in their child's education at home and at school._

UN-CONSTITUTIONAL!!!!!!!! There is no provision in the Constitution for a Department of Education. The DOE is a hugely WASTEFUL and expensive program. When the DOE got involved the quality of education went DOWN, WAY WAY DOWN. These powers are reserved to the STATES.

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## BgMc31

> examples of him being a racist: why did he choose to use his black half instead of his white? why did he marry a black woman instead of a white? why does he choose to hang around people who hold an anamosity towards white race? why does he take offense to comments about blacks and not whites? why does he choose to affiliate with a party that caters to the black race?......no, obama has never called me a craker or whitey b/c i do not know him personally, wich is the only way to truely know if someone is racist or not. i know what i see and i hear and that is all i truely have to go by. in my eyes i see as much evidence against him as i have against others who have been called racist who are white. you seem to be cought up on strom, how do you know that he is a racist.


1st you called Obama a racist that is why I focused on that. You caled him a racist because of his association with one person, not anything he has said or done. Point out where he's taken offense to what was said about blacks and not whites. He did speak out about the Rev. Wright. But you still haven't answered the question as to what the Rev. said that was racist. Sure what he said was inflammatory, but racists...hardly.

So you are also saying because Obama married a black woman than he's a racists? Say that aloud and you will see how ridiculous you sound. From what I've seen he's always identified himself as being bi-racial. Society identifies him as a black man. Same goes for anyone who is half black. My kids are indentified as black even though they are only half. Is that their fault? I think not. 

And lastly, how do I know Strom was a racists, well because he admitted it. If you did your research (as you've proven in all your post that you are incapable of doing so), you would know this. And don't try to change the subject to Obama's credentials as a politician. Your initial postings (which I have been commenting on) called the man a joke basic on an absurd notion that he was a racist or radical.

If you were smart you would try to be more like Godfather who is a true Ron Paul conservative who isn't focusing on the man's non-existent racism and posted his polical stance.

Godfather, for every reason why you won't vote for the man I AM voting for him. As a avid hunter myself, I see no need for assault weapons, they are used for one purpose and one purpose only...to kill human beings.

Healthcare: I think we owe it to our society to provide healthcare for everyone. It should be made available. Unlike Hillary Obama doesn't want to force anyone to have healthcare but rather make it 'available' for all. And lets not try to say that medicade is available fr those who don't have employer provided healthcare because that is not true. There are a huge segment of our population that make too much to get medicade but not enough to afford medical insurance provided by their employers. IMO a society isn't as successful if it doesn't care for its own. Socialism...hardly. Socialism implies that the government doesn't allow for upward mobility and everyone is on equal footing, which of course doesn't happen. What Obama wants to do is make sure everyone has the basic neccesities in life and healthcare is one of those things. How do we pay for it? Ending the war in Iraq where we are spending 12B billion a month. You all whine about Obama's programs are gonna cost 800+ million (not 10 billion), if we got out of Iraq, we could pay for his programs and then some with the money we will be saving, even it it was 10 billion.

Abortion: I think the fact that he is upholding a woman's right to choose proves that he doesn't ant government controlling what people do with their personal lives. Why do republicans always claim to be against big government when they are the one's who oppose abortion and same sex marriages? And don't give me this crap that it up to the states to decide. That's just a farce to outlaw a woman's right to choose.

Education: Common sense would tell you that if the federal government didn't have any involvement in education then there would be zero uniformity. Therefore schools in different states would educate students based on their own curriculums leaving some states to teach mythology and such instead of real word applications. You would begin to notice a litany of college problems and issues as kids would be on different levels. No Dept. of Education would be a disaster. No child left behind has been a failure and everyone knows it.

But just like you cannot convince me that Obama is this Stalinistic icon I cannot convince you that this man is what this country needs right now. Finally someone who forces us all to look in the mirror and face our true ills and come to a discussion/path as to solve these ills.

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## Act of God

Good post TGF

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## thegodfather

> Godfather, for every reason why you won't vote for the man I AM voting for him. As a avid hunter myself, I see no need for assault weapons, they are used for one purpose and one purpose only...to kill human beings.
> 
> .


I am inclined to agree at least in some part with the rest of your post except for this statement. This is just another example of a first step in trying to destroy the 2nd Amendment. Cars kill more people each year then guns. Guns are an inanimate object. A car is just as deadly if not more deadly than an assault weapon, in the hands of a person who wishes to do someone harm. A car is also more readily accessible. The case for banning assault r***es has serious flaws. If we concede that assault weapons are "dangerous" and ban them, what next? What about a NATIONAL ban on handguns? Then a national ban on SEMI-AUTOMATIC shotguns&r***es. Soon, we arrive at a society much like England, only allowed to own BREAK OPEN shotguns which must be kept inside the home and locked up securely. I assure you, disarming our populace and limiting the types of effective weapons they are able to own will have lasting consequences for the future freedom of our country. It is unfortunate that there are those PEOPLE/INDIVIDUALS out there who go on shooting rampages. However, a person determined and hell bent on killing, will kill by any means possible. There is no clearer evidence than in Rawanda, where 1,000,000 people were killed with machedes, another inanimate object. Perhaps Obama would like a national ban on steak knives next?

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## BgMc31

Using Rawanda makes my case as well. How many in Rawanda are killed by AKs. Plus how many cars are intentionally used to kill people as opposed to assault r***es. Look I'm not some sheep that follows everything Obama says. I agree with him more often than not plus much more than Hillary and McCain.

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## thegodfather

> Using Rawanda makes my case as well. How many in Rawanda are killed by AKs. Plus how many cars are intentionally used to kill people as opposed to assault r***es. Look I'm not some sheep that follows everything Obama says. I agree with him more often than not plus much more than Hillary and McCain.


How many of those people in Rawanda would have been able to save themselves from genocide in absence of a government entity to do so had they all exercised their inalienable rights to protect themselves from such tyrannical forces by each citizen owning a firearm? Rawanda is a perfect example of a failing state that could no longer guarantee protection for its people, and in that case they could have turned to their last resort which was to be armed and defend themselves. Unfortunately, 1,000,000 unarmed people were slaughtered, and mostly with machedes. I think it builds the case even more about why the populace of any country should be armed and able to defend itself.

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## Carlos_E

> this guy donated less than 1% of his million+ earnings this past year, not really democratic huh? i bet that he wont be as stingy with my money. that is only around $10000! i made around 90k and i gave my church (to promote a non racist agenda, unlike his) close to that. not only is he a racist he is a hypocrite. i dont expect any body to be perfect but come on man give me a break! this speaks more about his character than what his pastor/mentor/best friend said. 
> 
> we as steriod.com members should "donate" some of our money to get this guy a cycle. i thought that he looked anerexic because he was giving "so much," to help out all the people that the white man keeps down, but that is obviously not the case.


Man you're so full of shit. They did not give 1% and their church was one of their smaller donations.




> The Obamas earned $1.67 million in 2005 and $991,296 in 2006, the returns show. Their income spiked thanks mainly to the sales of his two books,Dreams from My Father, first published in 1995, andThe Audacity of Hope, a best seller in 2006.
> 
> In 2006, the Obamas reported giving $60,307 to charity, or about 6% of their income  the largest percentage during those seven years. From 2000 through 2004, they reported giving a total of $10,770, or less than 1% of the $1.2 million they earned during that period.
> 
> Vietor said the Obamas gave $240,000 to charity in 2007. He declined to disclose their income. Some of their largest charitable donations disclosed  $27,500 in 2005 and 2006  have been made to their church, Trinity United Church of Christ.
> 
> They also gave $45,000 to two literacy organizations and $31,000 to CARE, the global anti-poverty group.

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## Carlos_E

> if imus is racist and kramer is racist then i think that obama is just as qualified to be in the catagory. where there is smoke there is fire? *every body who has had any influence on his life has been held great anamosity toward white people and america.*


He was raised by his white mother and white grand parents. I guess they are racist against white people to.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Act of God

> He was raised by his white mother and white grand parents. I guess they are racist against white people to.


To be fair, he did note that his grandmother was a "typical white person" who was prejudiced against blacks. Apparently, to him, we're all the same.

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## Kärnfysikern

Has every presidental candidate been a millionair? Is it impossible to get into the race without a private fortune? Sounds shitty.

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## thegodfather

> Has every presidental candidate been a millionair? Is it impossible to get into the race without a private fortune? Sounds shitty.


The average person has been priced out of Democracy. It is almost impossible for someone without a significant amount of funds to run a successful campaign for any political office that matters. In addition someone must usually be well connected, and a pre-requesite for those connections is usually being wealthy.

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## SMCengineer

> But just like you cannot convince me that Obama is this Stalinistic icon I cannot convince you that this man is what this country needs right now. Finally someone who forces us all to look in the mirror and face our true ills and come to a discussion/path as to solve these ills.


He's exactly like every politician who just panders to what the people want to hear. What ills does he force us to see? The only candidate who talked about _real_ issues and had _real_ solutions for those problems was Ron Paul and he was completely marginalized by the media.

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## Pooks

> He's exactly like every politician who just panders to what the people want to hear. What ills does he force us to see? The only candidate who talked about _real_ issues and had _real_ solutions for those problems was Ron Paul and he was completely marginalized by the media.


Yup obama is a populist bullshiter***

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## Carlos_E

> Yup obama is a populist bullshiter***


...and Ron Paul is irrelevant.

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## AandF6969

Hm... Obama supports banning the sale and transfer of all semi-automatic firearms... and a ban on handguns? Obviously not a supporter of self defense, and we all know how well handgun bans work, look at Washington DC and Chicago, no handguns there! Works about as well as the illegal drug ban that the entire country is under.

Wants to leave illegal immigrants in the U.S.... screw that, send 'em back. Also supports giving drivers licenses to people who are here illegally. 

Voted in favor of the Patriot Act... which throws our civil liberties out the window. Allows the FBI to search telephone, email, and financial records without a court order, granted the ability for the government to detain and deport ANY immigrant, even if they're legal, for any reason. 

But yeah, he's a good candidate. Cares more about the rights of illegal immigrants than sustaining the rights of U.S. citizens. Not really sure why anyone would want the government to take away any more rights such as the right to privacy, the right to self defense, the fourth amendment (unreasonable search and seizure), etc.

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## lotaquestions

hey im sorry for not listing more details in my post, i havnt had the internet but for 3months, i dont really know how to do any thing on the computer. i only type like 25 words a min. i was hoping that by opening this thread i could get some facts on each canidate, especially obama, b/c from what i see and hear from this man i dont understand why anyone can even consider him as a serious canidate since he hasnt done absoutly nothing since he has been in the senate.

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## lotaquestions

> He was raised by his white mother and white grand parents. I guess they are racist against white people to.


how many quotes or books has he titled after any thing they said?

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## zartan

Michelle Obama:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=335303

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## SMCengineer

> ...and Ron Paul is irrelevant.


That Ron Paul is irrelevant is not something that you should boast about when what the public and the msm consider relevant is whether or not Obama's preacher is racist, or whether or not Obama's speech "transended" racial boundaries. It's fvcking disgusting all the trivial garbage that we focus on when, in reality, we have mounting problems that I've never heard Obama or the other two candidates even mention. This whole process is about name recognition and celebrity status. So yeah, Ron Paul being irrelevant should give you an uneasy sense of where this country is and what we're concerned with. When "feel good" rhetoric and promises to make everything better is what's "relevant" than, yes, Ron Paul is irrelevant.

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## lotaquestions

.

"So you are also saying because Obama married a black woman than he's a racists? Say that aloud and you will see how ridiculous you sound. From what I've seen he's always identified himself as being bi-racial. Society identifies him as a black man. Same goes for anyone who is half black. My kids are indentified as black even though they are only half. Is that their fault? I think not. "


what i meant by that is if he is so bi-racial then why does he keep identifing with his black side. him marrying a black woman doesnt make him racist, it was just another example of him yet again identifing with his black side. i was making the point that he chose a black wife, a black preacher, the black party, etc. i dont see him doing any thing to identify himself with his white half. which if he was raised by a white mother and grand parents shouldnt be so hard to do.

----------


## lotaquestions

> Look I'm not some sheep that follows everything Obama says. I agree with him more often than not plus much more than Hillary and McCain.


where do him and hillary disagree? from what ive seen they are pretty much identical on every issue, obama just puts more sugar on top.

----------


## BgMc31

> .
> 
> "So you are also saying because Obama married a black woman than he's a racists? Say that aloud and you will see how ridiculous you sound. From what I've seen he's always identified himself as being bi-racial. Society identifies him as a black man. Same goes for anyone who is half black. My kids are indentified as black even though they are only half. Is that their fault? I think not. "
> 
> 
> what i meant by that is if he is so bi-racial then why does he keep identifing with his black side. him marrying a black woman doesnt make him racist, it was just another example of him yet again identifing with his black side. i was making the point that he chose a black wife, a black preacher, the black party, etc. i dont see him doing any thing to identify himself with his white half. which if he was raised by a white mother and grand parents shouldnt be so hard to do.


When has he identified himself as being just black? And what black party are you referring to that he is a member of?

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## BgMc31

> Michelle Obama:
> http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=335303


Your point being?

----------


## BgMc31

> To be fair, he did note that his grandmother was a "typical white person" who was prejudiced against blacks. Apparently, to him, we're all the same.


And according to your previous posts we are all the same...

----------


## BgMc31

Ron Paul was never a viable candidate. Some of his ideas, while good, were so far fetched, could never really be achieved, that is why he is irrelevant. So you Ron Paul swingers can go on and on about his ideas and his radical changes but lets face the facts, he has no chance of ever being president and never did! 

The problem many of you (except godfather) is you guys resort to personal attacks on Obama and Hillary and their supporters. There is no reason for that. And that is exactly how the republicans want it. Keep everyone distracted from the real issues.

Someone talked about illegal immigrants and Obama's position: For all those who want to kick them all out the country, how do we round up 12 million people. Someone please give me a viable way to devote law enforcement resources to this w/o raising taxes (something you republicans are so against). Stop being hypocrits. The only way to solve the immigrant problem is to step up border security now and find a way to assimilate those who are already here. Their is no way to kick them all out. Its just not possible.

----------


## BgMc31

> Hm... Obama supports banning the sale and transfer of all semi-automatic firearms... and a ban on handguns? Obviously not a supporter of self defense, and we all know how well handgun bans work, look at Washington DC and Chicago, no handguns there! Works about as well as the illegal drug ban that the entire country is under.
> 
> Wants to leave illegal immigrants in the U.S.... screw that, send 'em back. Also supports giving drivers licenses to people who are here illegally. 
> 
> Voted in favor of the Patriot Act... which throws our civil liberties out the window. Allows the FBI to search telephone, email, and financial records without a court order, granted the ability for the government to detain and deport ANY immigrant, even if they're legal, for any reason. 
> 
> But yeah, he's a good candidate. Cares more about the rights of illegal immigrants than sustaining the rights of U.S. citizens. Not really sure why anyone would want the government to take away any more rights such as the right to privacy, the right to self defense, the fourth amendment (unreasonable search and seizure), etc.


in reference to the drivers license for illegals, you have obama confused with Hillary. Do some research before making false statements.

----------


## BgMc31

> where do him and hillary disagree? from what ive seen they are pretty much identical on every issue, obama just puts more sugar on top.


one major difference is on universal healthcare. Obama wants to make it 'available' to everyone while Hillary wants to force everyone to have it going so far as to garnish people's wages if they don't do it voluntarily.

One more thing. Who do you Ron Paul supporters plan on supporting this fall, John McCain? Why? Everyone says Obama only talks about platitudes like hope nd change. Doesn't McCain do the same? The man has no economic policy or experience and all he talks about are platitudes like duty and honor and victory w/o any substance.

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## SMCengineer

> Ron Paul was never a viable candidate. Some of his ideas, while good, were so far fetched, could never really be achieved, that is why he is irrelevant.


Cite an example please. I see no reason why following the constitution is far fetched. 




> So you Ron Paul swingers can go on and on about his ideas and his radical changes but lets face the facts, he has no chance of ever being president and never did!


Of course, he has no chance of being president because when he talks about change he means it. That scares people who are interested in preserving the status quo and, yes, both democrats and republicans like the status quo.



> The problem many of you (except godfather) is you guys resort to personal attacks on Obama and Hillary and their supporters. There is no reason for that. And that is exactly how the republicans want it. Keep everyone distracted from the real issues.


Um...quote me where I've made a personal attack please. Keeping everyone distracted from the real issues is not solely a republican trait. It's both republicans and democrats who do that. Is there even a difference between the two?




> Someone talked about illegal immigrants and Obama's position: For all those who want to kick them all out the country, how do we round up 12 million people. Someone please give me a viable way to devote law enforcement resources to this w/o raising taxes (something you republicans are so against). Stop being hypocrits. The only way to solve the immigrant problem is to step up border security now and find a way to assimilate those who are already here. Their is no way to kick them all out. Its just not possible.


Of course rounding up 12 million people is ridiculous. Not to mention, our country was founded by immigrants. However, the problem arises when immigrants come here to take advantage of our welfare system and do so without contributing to society in anyway. You asked for an example of a way to devote more law enforcement to borders, well how about we take our border patrol agents off the border of Iraq and put them here where they belong. Let's not forget that the southern and northern borders aren't our only concern when it comes to _illegal_ immigration it's also those overstay they're welcomes with expired visa's.

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## lotaquestions

> When has he identified himself as being just black? And what black party are you referring to that he is a member of?


i mean the democratic, wich is geared more toward the black race. before you butcher me on this, yes i know that there are alot of white dem supporters, my point is that every thing he does seems to be geared toward his black half and for a man who is claiming to be able to reach out to people on the other side of the "isle" i havnt seen him do anything to reach out to the white race or to the republican side. i would love for some examples, if you have any of how he has united any thing. the man is running for highest position in the world and he shows up with a paper thin resume and viturally no experience, offering the vageist solutions to every thing and he is getting away with it. i wouldnt have such a problem with him if he would put his time in, pass a bill (that betters or nation) and wait 5 years and then run.

we all know that elections are won based solely on sterotypes and as long as every single american has the right to vote, will continue to be:

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## AandF6969

> in reference to the drivers license for illegals, you have obama confused with Hillary. Do some research before making false statements.


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../MNH1UL57Q.DTL

http://www.issues2000.org/Internatio...mmigration.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politic...ma#Immigration

Do some research before making false statements about true statements.

----------


## BgMc31

> Cite an example please. I see no reason why following the constitution is far fetched. 
> 
> 
> Of course, he has no chance of being president because when he talks about change he means it. That scares people who are interested in preserving the status quo and, yes, both democrats and republicans like the status quo.
> 
> Um...quote me where I've made a personal attack please. Keeping everyone distracted from the real issues is not solely a republican trait. It's both republicans and democrats who do that. Is there even a difference between the two?
> 
> 
> Of course rounding up 12 million people is ridiculous. Not to mention, our country was founded by immigrants. However, the problem arises when immigrants come here to take advantage of our welfare system and do so without contributing to society in anyway. You asked for an example of a way to devote more law enforcement to borders, well how about we take our border patrol agents off the border of Iraq and put them here where they belong. Let's not forget that the southern and northern borders aren't our only concern when it comes to _illegal_ immigration it's also those overstay they're welcomes with expired visa's.


I never said following the constitution is far fetched, but IMO the constitution is a fluid document, open to interpretation. You may disagree, but that is the way I see it because that is the way our leaders have used. They've interpreted to further their own ideas and Ron Paul is no different.

On illegal immigration, obviousy we are in somewhat of agreement but are you calling our military border patrol agents? If so that is not the purpose of our military. Again that's my opinion. I'm all for putting the national guard on the borders but once you put our military on the border, it looks like a sign of aggression and will be percieved that way by the international community. And with our international reputation already sullied by the current republican administration, we need not dig ourselves into a deeper hole.

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## AandF6969

Obviously rounding up 12 million people isn't feasible but there should be a system in place so when these illegals get popped for speeding, burglary, jaywalking, whatever, they get put on a truck and sent back.

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## BgMc31

> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../MNH1UL57Q.DTL
> 
> http://www.issues2000.org/Internatio...mmigration.htm
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politic...ma#Immigration
> 
> Do some research before making false statements about true statements.


I stand corrected.

----------


## BgMc31

> i mean the democratic, wich is geared more toward the black race. before you butcher me on this, yes i know that there are alot of white dem supporters, my point is that every thing he does seems to be geared toward his black half and for a man who is claiming to be able to reach out to people on the other side of the "isle" i havnt seen him do anything to reach out to the white race or to the republican side. i would love for some examples, if you have any of how he has united any thing. the man is running for highest position in the world and he shows up with a paper thin resume and viturally no experience, offering the vageist solutions to every thing and he is getting away with it. i wouldnt have such a problem with him if he would put his time in, pass a bill (that betters or nation) and wait 5 years and then run.
> 
> we all know that elections are won based solely on sterotypes and as long as every single american has the right to vote, will continue to be:


That Democratic party isn't geared toward the black vote. There are many more white dems than black. Dems cater to all minorities and women moreso than the republican party which has time and time again geared itself largely towards white men.

Please site examples that everything he's done hs been for his 'black' side. And what's wrong with someone doing things for their community. White politicians cater to their constiuents (white people) so what's wrong with a black man doing the same for his? 

Two of our most popular presidents had very little experience (JFK and Lincoln) and they did pretty well for themselves. Some of us are tired of the experience argument because the experience cats have ruined this country. Its time for something new.

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## AandF6969

> Its time for something new.


Let's see how many rights we can revoke from the American people and how much better off the country will be...  :Icon Rolleyes: 

Oh, and the assholes that actually make something of themselves and acquire a decent income? Take it!! Give it to crackheads!

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## Act of God

> Someone talked about illegal immigrants and Obama's position: For all those who want to kick them all out the country, how do we round up 12 million people. Someone please give me a viable way to devote law enforcement resources to this w/o raising taxes (something you republicans are so against). Stop being hypocrits. The only way to solve the immigrant problem is to step up border security now and find a way to assimilate those who are already here. Their is no way to kick them all out. Its just not possible.


Absolutely inane to try to round up 12 million people, I agree. What you do is secure the borders now to prevent more from coming over and then you take away their incentive to be here like Arizona did. Stop the handouts and they will go away on their own.

Immigrants are more than welcome to come join the party, but you need to wait in line like everyone else.

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## BgMc31

http://factbeat.com/get_story.php?id=263

For all those who say he hasn't done anything bi-partisan or anything else for that matter while in the Senate.

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## SMCengineer

> I never said following the constitution is far fetched, but IMO the constitution is a fluid document, open to interpretation. You may disagree, but that is the way I see it because that is the way our leaders have used. They've interpreted to further their own ideas and Ron Paul is no different.


It's not that I disagree with you. It's that your wrong. The constitution was not written as a fluid document and when it's perceived as such is when we see violations and encroachments of our rights. Case in point, FDR, Woodrow Wilson, and George W. Bush. All believed the constitution was/is a "living document" that could be "interpreted." These were also some of the worst presidents.

The tenth amendement specifically states "the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to people." These powers are few and defined. 




> On illegal immigration, obviousy we are in somewhat of agreement but *are you calling our military border patrol agents?* If so that is not the purpose of our military. Again that's my opinion. I'm all for putting the national guard on the borders but once you put our military on the border, it looks like a sign of aggression and will be percieved that way by the international community. And with our international reputation already sullied by the current republican administration, we need not dig ourselves into a deeper hole.


No, I'm saying that the top border patrol agents who were taken to Iraq to train agents there and to protect their borders need to be taken back here to protect our borders. They are not militarty personnel.

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## BgMc31

> Let's see how many rights we can revoke from the American people and how much better off the country will be... 
> 
> Oh, and the assholes that actually make something of themselves and acquire a decent income? Take it!! Give it to crackheads!


Being a bit overly dramatic aren't we? No one is suggesting supporting crackheads. But whether you like it or not, there is a certain level of social responsibility we do have.

----------


## Pooks

> Being a bit overly dramatic aren't we? No one is suggesting supporting crackheads. But whether you like it or not, there is a certain level of social responsibility we do have.



No.. take care of yourself, I'll take care of myself.

----------


## Carlos_E

> Hm... Obama supports banning the sale and transfer of all semi-automatic firearms... and a ban on handguns? Obviously not a supporter of self defense, and we all know how well handgun bans work, look at Washington DC and Chicago, no handguns there! Works about as well as the illegal drug ban that the entire country is under.
> 
> Wants to leave illegal immigrants in the U.S.... screw that, send 'em back. Also supports giving drivers licenses to people who are here illegally. 
> 
> Voted in favor of the Patriot Act... which throws our civil liberties out the window. Allows the FBI to search telephone, email, and financial records without a court order, granted the ability for the government to detain and deport ANY immigrant, even if they're legal, for any reason. 
> 
> But yeah, he's a good candidate. Cares more about the rights of illegal immigrants than sustaining the rights of U.S. citizens. Not really sure why anyone would want the government to take away any more rights such as the right to privacy, the right to self defense, the fourth amendment (unreasonable search and seizure), etc.


The only difference between Obama and McCain on the above issues is his view of weapons. So I guess you're no voting for McCain either.



> That Ron Paul is irrelevant is not something that you should boast about when what the public and the msm consider relevant is whether or not Obama's preacher is racist, or whether or not Obama's speech "transended" racial boundaries. It's fvcking disgusting all the trivial garbage that we focus on when, in reality, we have mounting problems that I've never heard Obama or the other two candidates even mention. This whole process is about name recognition and celebrity status. So yeah, Ron Paul being irrelevant should give you an uneasy sense of where this country is and what we're concerned with. When "feel good" rhetoric and promises to make everything better is what's "relevant" than, yes, Ron Paul is irrelevant.


You forget about Ron Paul's racist news letters printed under his name with his name as the by line. So if you want to debate who is racist, more evidence points toward Ron Paul than Obama who's pastor holds views he does not agree with.

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## alphaman

Wow. I gotta come here more often.

I've got a couple things...

One... The numbers originally posted about Obama's giving were off, but let's be honest about it. He sure hasn't lived up to his ideology. He could have given much, much more. Especially considering what he wants to take from us and give to foreigners.

Two... The second amendment is in place so that if necessary, the American people can overthrow a tyranical government. Deeming any weapon illegal does nothing but take them out of the hands of the good guys... the bad guys will still have them. 

Three... The constitution is not meant to be open to interpratation.... it was left open to be amended... but what is written, has been written. The statement that Ron Paul will never be elected because he has "outlandish" ideas is sad. Anyone who dismisses Ron Paul because they don't believe real CHANGE can take place should be ashamed of themselves. The fact that the United States exists is a testament that miraculous things can happen in this world when people have undying effort and faith. And for that matter.... should an Obama supporter ever say they don't believe in CHANGE?  :LOL: 

So... the promise of CHANGE only sounds cool if it's empty? I don't get it.

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## Act of God

> I guess you forget about Ron Paul's racist news letters printed under his name with his name as the by line. So if you want to debate who is racist, more evidence points toward Ron Paul than Obama who's pastor holds views he does not agree with.


Not even close Carlos. Ron Paul left that publication and had nothing to do with it in any way when those idiotic things were published. He didn't edit, oversee or manage that publication at that time. He merely allowed them (thinking he could trust them) to keep the name of the already established publication. Additionally, nice slant on calling it "Ron Paul's racist new letters" as if he had any ownership or control of them. We already know, as a fact, he did not. Additionally, unlike your Obama, he completely denounced what was written and the people who wrote it.

Obama's case is different, because he actively went to this church while this lunatic was spouting intolerance and vengeance. Obama then resorted to half truths along the lines of "I never heard him say anything like that personally" and then in his big speech said something like "Yes I heard those things, but I dont' agree with them". The reverend himself, before all this went down, was on record saying that he AND Obama discussed the potential strife this might caused by their relationship and they agreed Obama might have to distance himself from the reverend for political reasons.

So wait, he never heard anything right? If that is true, why would he have discussed distancing himself from the guy before this all went down? Oh yeah, he lied.

They (politicians) are all double speaking, two-faced, liars. Obama is no different.

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## SMCengineer

> I guess you forget about Ron Paul's racist news letters printed under his name with his name as the by line. So if you want to debate who is racist, more evidence points toward Ron Paul than Obama who's pastor holds views he does not agree with.


I guess you forgot to read the post. What I said is that I find it _abhorrent_ that we even discuss who might be rascist or what someones pastor says when our country faces *real* problems.

Or more specifically:



> It's fvcking disgusting all the trivial garbage that we focus on when, in reality, we have mounting problems that I've never heard Obama or the other two candidates even mention.


Please read the post more carefully.

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## thegodfather

The Constitution is not a 'living document.' Additionally, you people have it seriously twisted if you believe that the government GIVES YOU RIGHTS. *IT MOST CERTAINLY DOES NOT!*  The Consitution is written so that government is RESTRAINED from violating your rights, therefore ENSURING your rights. It is impossible for the government to give you any of the rights listed in the Bill of Rights, because they are inalienable, *YOU ARE BORN WITH THEM!!*  That is why on the Declaration of Independence it says "we hold these truths to be self evident, that people are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights." 

Moving on in regards to Ron Paul and his policies. Many of his ideas/policies were once ALREADY IN PLACE in this country, and they were later done away with by self-interested parties. To suggest otherwise is foolish and points to a lack of understanding of the country's history. The Gold standard, we had that until the 1970s, and now we've seen what has happened to the dollar. We didn't have a central bank (Fed Reserve) until 1913, thats more than HALF of the country's history, and we did quite well without them. The Fed has been responsible for the boom&bust cycles over the passed hundred years. Anyway, this is not about Ron Paul, so I'm only touching this point briefly. 

ANYWAY...with regards to illegal immigration. The saying is "when you subsidize something you get more of it." So we subsudize the lifestyle of the illegal immigrant, give them free schooling, healthcare, and housing. What do get? MORE OF THEM. We end their incentive to be in our country, and there is no longer a need to build a giant wall. The liberal would have you believe it is racist, or inhuman, to deny people entry into this country. What a crock of bleeding heart propagandized bullshit. 

Second point, with regards to handguns, assault r***es, and the 2nd Amendment in general. Sorry guys, none of you have a foot to stand on when trying to argue AGAINST handguns or conceal&carry. Obama suggests Federal ban on conceal&carry(which the Federal government does not have the power to do, please see the Constitution for details). He does this despite A MOUNTAIN of statistics showing that it makes the people SAFER if they armed and are able to conceal weapons on their persons.* So it makes me wonder if his intentions are to make the people safer*, *or to make government safer from the people.* 

You guys can argue the stupid little policies all day. When you take Obama's voting record and his stance on the issues into consideration, *it becomes clear that his entire platform is in direct contraindictation to the Constitution of the United States,* like most of the other candidates running for President. 

The Constitution is the Bible of the United States. If it is not written in there, YOU CANT FU*KING DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus christ, its not that hard of a fu*king concept to grasp. Yet you guys will vote for candidates that want to wipe their ass with the most important document in our nations history, and support the people who support trying to strip your INALIENABLE rights.

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## Carlos_E

> I guess you forgot to read the post. What I said is that I find it _abhorrent_ that we even discuss who might be rascist or what someones pastor says when our country faces *real* problems.


I agree.

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## Carlos_E

> Not even close Carlos. Ron Paul left that publication and had nothing to do with it in any way when those idiotic things were published. He didn't edit, oversee or manage that publication at that time. He merely allowed them (thinking he could trust them) to keep the name of the already established publication. Additionally, nice slant on calling it "Ron Paul's racist new letters" as if he had any ownership or control of them. We already know, as a fact, he did not. Additionally, unlike your Obama, he completely denounced what was written and the people who wrote it.


Then it shows poor judgement. Why let someone print something under your name with you as the by line and not read or edit it. It shows extremely poor judgement.

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## Act of God

> Then it shows poor judgement. Why let someone print something under your name with you as the by line and not read or edit it. It shows extremely poor judgement.


I disagree, but I don't think your thinking is out of line in that statement at all. Along the same lines, you surely must agree that BO is guilty of the same in the very least.

What do you think about the lying I pointed out?

----------


## BgMc31

> It's not that I disagree with you. It's that your wrong. The constitution was not written as a fluid document and when it's perceived as such is when we see violations and encroachments of our rights. Case in point, FDR, Woodrow Wilson, and George W. Bush. All believed the constitution was/is a "living document" that could be "interpretated." These were also some of the worst presidents.
> 
> The tenth amendement specifically states "the powers not delegated to the United States by the onstitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to people." These powers are few and defined. 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I'm saying that the top border patrol agents who were taken to Iraq to train agents there and to protect their borders need to be taken back here to protect our borders. They are not militarty personnel.


You can't say definatively that I'm wrong because from its inception the document was open to interpretation. The best example was the 'All men are created equal' part. The founding fathers initial interpretation was all white land holding men. And the fact that they weren't the only ones to 'interpret' the document proves I am not wrong. But trying to debate you on this is like trying to debate a fundamentalist christian about the bible and whether or not its open to interpretation. I assume you would be classified as a constitutional fundamentalist correct?

In reference to the border patrol agents in Iraq, where did you get that info. I'm not disputing your claim its just that is information I've never heard. And how would those agents be able to assist the Iraqis with military strategy (since Iraq borders are threatened by military force and not people wanting to come for jobs)? Isn't that best suited for our military (green berets)?

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## Carlos_E

> They (politicians) are all double speaking, two-faced, liars. *Obama is no different.*


No one said he wasn't. But his policies fall more in line with my beliefs than McSame McCain or Billary.

As far as Obama's pastor. I'm sure you have friends that make prejudice or racist comments and you are still friends with them. 

I have a friend and he says dumb prejudice statements about people. I correct him and tell him how stupid he sounds. I have distanced myself from him but I have not totally cut him off.

Just because my friend holds dumb prejudices doesn't mean I do. The same applies to Obama. You can't take his pastor's views and apply them to Obama.

----------


## Act of God

> You can't say definatively that I'm wrong because from its inception the document was open to interpretation. The best example was the 'All men are created equal' part. The founding fathers initial interpretation was all white land holding men. And the fact that they weren't the only ones to 'interpret' the document proves I am not wrong. But trying to debate you on this is like trying to debate a fundamentalist christian about the bible and whether or not its open to interpretation. I assume you would be classified as a constitutional fundamentalist correct?
> 
> In reference to the border patrol agents in Iraq, where did you get that info. I'm not disputing your claim its just that is information I've never heard. And how would those agents be able to assist the Iraqis with military strategy (since Iraq borders are threatened by military force and not people wanting to come for jobs)? Isn't that best suited for our military (green berets)?


The constitution was referred to as a "living document" because it can be amended, need be. It wasn't called that because it was open to interpretation... hence "inalienable" rights and the clause *specifically* reserving all rights not expressly given to the Fed gov. to the states.

----------


## joescobra03

he is a joke

----------


## Act of God

> No one said he wasn't. But his policies fall more in line with my beliefs than McSame McCain or Billary.


That's fine, as you know his policies are more or less polar opposites of what my beliefs are (freedom). What irks me, as I said before, is the "Fonzi" treatment he seems to be getting.

The same thing bugged me about Kerry in the last election when asshats like MTV and celebrities decided he was the "cool" candidate to vote for and pushed him ad nauseum upon us.

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## BgMc31

whether or not the constitution was 'supposed' to be interpreted or not is immaterial simply because from in its inception it was 'interpreted' by the framers. So its really a non-argument.

----------


## Act of God

> whether or not the constitution was 'supposed' to be interpreted or not is immaterial simply because from in its inception it was 'interpreted' by the framers. So its really a non-argument.


lol nice backtrack, don't you hate it when "facts" get in the way of your ideas?

----------


## BgMc31

> lol nice backtrack, don't you hate it when "facts" get in the way of your ideas?


When did I backtrack? Seems to me you don't read very well. I've held strong to my stance that the constitution has been interpreted whether it was meant to be or not. So no backtracking here. Try again!

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## Act of God

> When did I backtrack? Seems to me you don't read very well. I've held strong to my stance that the constitution has been interpreted whether it was meant to be or not. So no backtracking here. Try again!


You said that from inception the document was open to interpretation. This is not true. It wasn't until modern times that the courts/politicians have been semi-successful at bastardizing it since the masses are clueless these days.

As for slavery, uhhhh...they actually had to amend the constitution to address it. Regardless, if anything the definition of "men" is what changed (not the interpretation of the actual document).

Whatever, I'm not wasting my time arguing semantics with you.

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## thegodfather

Supreme court decisions are what perpetuated slavery. These decisions led to black people being covered under 'property rights' and not as people. The framers made sure not to put anything in the Constitution about slavery.

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## Act of God

> Supreme court decisions are what perpetuated slavery. These decisions led to black people being covered under 'property rights' and not as people. The framers made sure not to put anything in the Constitution about slavery.


Right, but we added 13 and 14 as a result. We didn't just interpret it differently. You are right, though, as I said...the definition of "men" was changed as blacks went from property to people.

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## zartan

> Your point being?


My point being Obama's wife is an angry racist who 'will always try present and future to help the Black Community, first and foremost' and who hasn't been proud of her country until her husband started doing well in the polls. This is someone who's lead a life of luxury, attending the best schools, etc etc. And god knows she not afraid of her husband running for president, because he can be shot just going to the gas station as a black man.

Clearly a woman seeing life through the prism of race/color.

All that being said, I've come to realize we don't have much of a choice at this point, basically we have to pick the candidate we hate the least which might be Obama by a nut hair over Hiltlery.

----------


## lotaquestions

does any one but me think that raising the capital gain tax is insane? i like the way he consulted mr. buffett to see if he minded, since he already said that he wants to die broke.

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## BgMc31

> My point being Obama's wife is an angry racist who 'will always try present and future to help the Black Community, first and foremost' and who hasn't been proud of her country until her husband started doing well in the polls. This is someone who's lead a life of luxury, attending the best schools, etc etc. And god knows she not afraid of her husband running for president, because he can be shot just going to the gas station as a black man.
> 
> Clearly a woman seeing life through the prism of race/color.
> 
> All that being said, I've come to realize we don't have much of a choice at this point, basically we have to pick the candidate we hate the least which might be Obama by a nut hair over Hiltlery.


Please post any racists comment made by Mrs. Obama.

----------


## lotaquestions

bgmc carlosE godfather act of god blome:thanks guys for helping me get some research done, keep it coming

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## lotaquestions

> Please post any racists comment made by Mrs. Obama.


i dont know where to find it, but i think that it is something she wrote in one of her thesis papers where she said that she would put the agenda of the black race first.

----------


## SMCengineer

> You can't say definatively that I'm wrong because from its inception the document was open to interpretation. The best example was the 'All men are created equal' part. The founding fathers initial interpretation was all white land holding men. And the fact that they weren't the only ones to 'interpret' the document proves I am not wrong. But trying to debate you on this is like trying to debate a fundamentalist christian about the bible and whether or not its open to interpretation.


No, you are definitively wrong. I'm sorry, there's really no way around it. If you believe that the constitution is a fluid document than your allowing lawmakers and politicians to do as they see fit and obviously they will abuse that power. That's why it's not meant for interpretation. 

The example of 'All men are created equal' is probably the worst example you could give as it completely solidfies my point. The fact that pre-civil war politicians interpreted that to exclude blacks on the premise that they are property proves that the constitution should be strictly followed. If it was strictly followed than slavery would have stopped with the ratification of the constitution. The founding fathers knew that slavery would be a huge detriment to the newly formed states, but they also knew that forcing southern plantation owners to give up their slaves would mean slave states would not ratify the constitution and it also meant certain economic collapse. The term 'All men are created equal' was not put in by mistake and was not meant for interpretation.




> I assume you would be classified as a constitutional fundamentalist correct?


I think you'd be too if you just realize how much the constitution changed the entire world in such a short time. Before the constitution was ratified and free markets were fully realized, countries made very little progress in terms of technological and economic advances. After the constitution was ratified, the world literally advanced at an exponential rate. That's not a coincidence. 




> In reference to the border patrol agents in Iraq, where did you get that info. I'm not disputing your claim its just that is information I've never heard. And how would those agents be able to assist the Iraqis with military strategy (since Iraq borders are threatened by military force and not people wanting to come for jobs)? Isn't that best suited for our military (green berets)?


http://www.democrats.org/a/2007/05/border_patrol_a.php

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## thegodfather

BgMc31...

You support Obama's stance on gun control and conceal&carry despite the fact that ALL of the statistics prove that conceal&carry lowers crime rates and makes the people at large safer? 

This is a huge issue for me. I feel very strongly about someone who would pass legislation that would make me an easy victim to those who would seek to do me harm. Democrats give a lot of lip service about keeping handguns out of the wrong hands. All that gun legislation does, is take guns out of the RIGHT hands, the hands of the law abiding citizens who purchase them legally. Criminals get a hold of them no matter what, that is why they are criminals, they break the laws.

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## zartan

> Please post any racists comment made by Mrs. Obama.


Originally Posted by zartan 
Michelle Obama:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=335303

dude check out the thread, you WERE there and posted on it.

----------


## BgMc31

> BgMc31...
> 
> You support Obama's stance on gun control and conceal&carry despite the fact that ALL of the statistics prove that conceal&carry lowers crime rates and makes the people at large safer? 
> 
> This is a huge issue for me. I feel very strongly about someone who would pass legislation that would make me an easy victim to those who would seek to do me harm. Democrats give a lot of lip service about keeping handguns out of the wrong hands. All that gun legislation does, is take guns out of the RIGHT hands, the hands of the law abiding citizens who purchase them legally. Criminals get a hold of them no matter what, that is why they are criminals, they break the laws.


Godfather,

I don't support a ban on conceal and carry (I have my conceal and carry permit here in nevada). I support a ban on assault weapons. 

But I do have a question. Those stats about the safety of allowing people to conceal and carry are skewed a bit correct? The recent rash of gun deaths in the media showed most of these psychos were licensed gun owners not criminals buying them out of trunks of cars. Secondly NM (a state I resided in for 11yrs) has one of the highest homicide rates in the country per capita, as does southern Nevada, but both have conceal and carry laws. Like I said, I support conceal and carry by I don't think it makes people safer.

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## BgMc31

> Originally Posted by zartan 
> Michelle Obama:
> http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=335303
> ut the thread, you WERE there and posted on it.


Yes I read thru her statements several times and found nothing racists . Please site examples of her racists statements.

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## zartan

> Yes I read thru her statements several times and found nothing racists . Please site examples of her racists statements.


already went through all that in the thread, if you dont see it then trying to explain it is pointless. Like I said before, trying to explain the color blue to a blind man.

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## zartan

from her thesis:
"Earlier in my college career, there was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the Black community I was somehow obligated to this community and would utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit this community first and foremost. My experiences at Princeton have made me far more aware of my "Blackness" than ever before. I found that at Princeton no matter how liberal and open-minded some of my White professors and classmates try to be toward me, I sometimes feel like a visitor on campus; as if I really don't belong. Regardless of the circumstances underwhich I interact with Whites at Princeton, it often seems as if, to them, I will always be Black first and a student second.
These experineces have made it apparent to me that the path I have chosen to follow by attending Princeton will likely lead to my further integration and/or assimilation into a White cultural and social structure that will only allow me to remain on the periphery of society; never becoming a full participant. This realization has presently, made my goals to actively utilize my resources to benefit the Black community more desireable."

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## BITTAPART2

man, I dont give a crap, for the past 8 years Ive been thinking I could do a better job as president of the US than George W Bush has done. Obama simply has to be able to read "my pet goat"...wait too long to respond to national disaster and go to war in the wrong country and hey, hes capable of being president. I am voting this year for whoever wants us to leave Iraq, whoever doesnt have revenue coming from oil companies and pharmeceutical comapnies and one who hasnet ever been into insider trading. So again anyone but Bush. how sad that Id even be relieved if crazy diapers Mcain won, and i cant stand that mini Bush

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## zartan

More pearls of wisdom from Michelle Obama:

“For the first time in my adult life, I am proud of my country, because it feels like hope is making a comeback.”

"I don't lose sleep over it, because the realities are that, you know, as a black man, you know, Barack can get shot going to the gas station, you know. So, you know, you can't -- you know, you can't make decisions based on fear and the possibility of what might happen. We just weren't raised that way."

"I've got nothing in common with this guy. He grew up in Hawaii! Who grows up in Hawaii? *He was biracial. I was like, okay, what's that about?* And then it's a funny name, Barack Obama. Who names their child Barack Obama?"

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## BITTAPART2

guys.....who thinks George Bush is a racist? who thinks Obama is a racist? who thinks themsleves to be a racist? I believe we are all racist in some meaning of the word, but seriously, why no outrage when Bush was in office being a complete racist by actions rather than what he says?

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## BgMc31

Zartan, none of those statements made by her were racists. Keep trying! What do you call a person who sees something that isn't there? Dillusional!

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## BITTAPART2

im white and I havent been proud to be an american in 8 years  :Smilie:

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## lotaquestions

> guys.....who thinks George Bush is a racist? who thinks Obama is a racist? who thinks themsleves to be a racist? I believe we are all racist in some meaning of the word, but seriously, why no outrage when Bush was in office being a complete racist by actions rather than what he says?



what actions are you refering to?

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## zartan

> Zartan, none of those statements made by her were racists. Keep trying! What do you call a person who sees something that isn't there? Dillusional!


What do you call a person with their head buried in the sand?

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## BITTAPART2

> from her thesis:
> "Earlier in my college career, there was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the white community I was somehow obligated to this community and would utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit this community first and foremost. My experiences at Princeton have made me far more aware of my "whiteness" than ever before. I found that at NC A&T no matter how liberal and open-minded some of my Black professors and classmates try to be toward me, I sometimes feel like a visitor on campus; as if I really don't belong. Regardless of the circumstances underwhich I interact with blacks at NC A&T, it often seems as if, to them, I will always be white first and a student second.
> These experineces have made it apparent to me that the path I have chosen to follow by attending NC A&T will likely lead to my further integration and/or assimilation into a black cultural and social structure that will only allow me to remain on the periphery of society; never becoming a full participant. This realization has presently, made my goals to actively utilize my resources to benefit the white community more desireable."


alright read my changs in red and tell me you wouldnt echo this sentiment?

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## zartan

"Earlier in my college career, there was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the White community I was somehow obligated to this community and would utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit this community first and foremost. My experiences at Princeton have made me far more aware of my "Whiteness" than ever before. I found that at Princeton no matter how liberal and open-minded some of my Black professors and classmates try to be toward me, I sometimes feel like a visitor on campus; as if I really don't belong. Regardless of the circumstances underwhich I interact with Whites at Princeton, it often seems as if, to them, I will always be Black first and a student second.
These experineces have made it apparent to me that the path I have chosen to follow by attending Princeton will likely lead to my further integration and/or assimilation into a Black cultural and social structure that will only allow me to remain on the periphery of society; never becoming a full participant. This realization has presently, made my goals to actively utilize my resources to benefit the White community more desireable."

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## BITTAPART2

^^^just like my highschool BTW. I felt the same as her but I was the 5% of white people at my inner city HS

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## Carlos_E

> from her thesis:
> "Earlier in my college career, there was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the Black community I was somehow obligated to this community and would utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit this community first and foremost. My experiences at Princeton have made me far more aware of my "Blackness" than ever before. I* found that at Princeton no matter how liberal and open-minded some of my White professors and classmates try to be toward me, I sometimes feel like a visitor on campus; as if I really don't belong. Regardless of the circumstances underwhich I interact with Whites at Princeton, it often seems as if, to them, I will always be Black first and a student second.
> These experineces have made it apparent to me that the path I have chosen to follow by attending Princeton will likely lead to my further integration and/or assimilation into a White cultural and social structure that will only allow me to remain on the periphery of society*; never becoming a full participant. This realization has presently, made my goals to actively utilize my resources to benefit the Black community more desireable."


I grew up in an all white town and was treated the same way as an outsider. I went to a predominately Black college so I could have exposure to Black culture and the Black community. She stated EXACTLY how I felt. That does not make me or her a separatist or racist. It's obvious you have a negative view of Obama and will look for anything not to like him.



> ^^^just like my highschool BTW. I felt the same as her but I was the 5% of white people at my inner city HS


We're the opposite of the same coin.

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## BITTAPART2

> what actions are you refering to?


HURRICANE KATRINA for starters! do you think a bunch of oil rich rednecks would be stranded like that?

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## zartan

No actually I would vote for Obama over the old foguey. Its cool to be black, if anything. Look at the media, black is like 12% of the population but scan through the channels on TV. I think its ****ed up saying you will help any community based on their color. Help the ones that need it, poor, young, old, black OR white shouldn't be an issue.

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## Carlos_E

> No actually I would vote for Obama over the old foguey. Its cool to be black, if anything. Look at the media, black is like 12% of the population but scan through the channels on TV. I think its ****ed up saying you will help any community based on their color. Help the ones that need it, poor, young, old, black OR white shouldn't be an issue.


Tell that to the Jewish and Asian communities in America. Last time I check they help themselves.

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## BITTAPART2

I think racism and clasism are becoming very very similar, I believe classism is a lot worse though. Republicans like Bush will not help poor people period! its that arrogant attitude that only people whove been born into a rich family and spoon fed through college on daddys dime will say that crap about "you are where you are becuae you out yoursefl there" a load of crap IMO. If you were born as dumb as george bush in the hood your ass would still be in the hood, but instead he was born a bush and now hes the GD president of the United States?

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## lotaquestions

> HURRICANE KATRINA for starters! do you think a bunch of oil rich rednecks would be stranded like that?


didnt the black mayor of new orleans, who had the use of thousand of city buses and didnt use them do the same thing? what else did you want him to do, go pick them up in air force one?

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## lotaquestions

> I think racism and clasism are becoming very very similar, I believe classism is a lot worse though. Republicans like Bush will not help poor people period! its that arrogant attitude that only people whove been born into a rich family and spoon fed through college on daddys dime will say that crap about "you are where you are becuae you out yoursefl there" a load of crap IMO. If you were born as dumb as george bush in the hood your ass would still be in the hood, but instead he was born a bush and now hes the GD president of the United States?


is there no level of personal responsibabilty in the US?

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## BgMc31

> No actually I would vote for Obama over the old foguey. Its cool to be black, if anything. Look at the media, black is like 12% of the population but scan through the channels on TV. I think its ****ed up saying you will help any community based on their color. Help the ones that need it, poor, young, old, black OR white shouldn't be an issue.


Even with the plugins it doesn't make her a racists. You my find it messed up that people will help their own before others but that doesn't make one a racists. No where in her writings does she write about Black superiority or defame whites in any way. She was speaking from experiences.

Like Carlos said, Jews, Italians, Hispanics, etc., support their on first it doesn't make them racists. So why is Mrs. Obama a racists. I'm still waiting for a racist statement by her and so far you've produced zero!

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## BITTAPART2

_is there no level of personal responsibabilty in the US?_

^^^have you been raised in a black poverty stricken neighborhood? if so than ill shut up but otherwise you cant tell me how it is trying to overcome those obstacles bro

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## BITTAPART2

> didnt the black mayor of new orleans, who had the use of thousand of city buses and didnt use them do the same thing? what else did you want him to do, go pick them up in air force one?


mayor...president hmmm huge national disaster killing thousands? a mayor should have dealt with that, the president should have waited, your exactly right....sarcasm

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## BITTAPART2

> Even with the plugins it doesn't make her a racists. *You my find it messed up that people will help their own before others* but that doesn't make one a racists. No where in her writings does she write about Black superiority or defame whites in any way. She was speaking from experiences.
> 
> Like Carlos said, Jews, Italians, Hispanics, etc., support their on first it doesn't make them racists. So why is Mrs. Obama a racists. I'm still waiting for a racist statement by her and so far you've produced zero!


good point

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## BITTAPART2

and how is someone going to start a thread calling Borak Obama a joke? can you do what he did in the face of aversity or even without any adversity? gimmie a break, obama is far from a joke. He may not be your choice for president but this guy is something special, dont let your personal thoughts on POLOTICS get in the way of rationality, go to his website, see all the contributions, you think you could get anywhere near the following he has gotten? a joke, thats a joke

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## zartan

> Even with the plugins it doesn't make her a racists. You my find it messed up that people will help their own before others but that doesn't make one a racists. No where in her writings does she write about Black superiority or defame whites in any way. She was speaking from experiences.
> 
> Like Carlos said, Jews, Italians, Hispanics, etc., support their on first it doesn't make them racists. So why is Mrs. Obama a racists. I'm still waiting for a racist statement by her and so far you've produced zero!


Oh so If I vote for Hitlery or a white person because she is 'my own' thats good?

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## Carlos_E

> Oh so If I vote for Hitlery or a white person because she is 'my own' thats good?


Who is voting for Obama because he's Black?

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## zartan

> Who is voting for Obama because he's Black?


The point is if we are gonna start 'looking after our own' where does that lead us? Certainly not presidential material.

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## Carlos_E

> The point is if we are gonna start 'looking after our own' where does that lead us? Certainly not presidential material.


Since when is Michelle on the ticket? Are you not going to vote for McCain because his wife is a blonde bimbo ex drug addict? I don't see people dogging McCain because of it. Like I said. You're grasping for reasons not to like him.

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## zartan

Michelle is doing tons of campaigning, I think its abundantly clear this is one of those 2 for 1 deals. Also there is the whole guilty by association rule, as with Obama and his church that gave lewis pharakon a lifetime achievement award. You think if Mccain's church gave David Duke a lifetime achievement award it would be business as usual?

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## AandF6969

> Godfather,
> 
> I don't support a ban on conceal and carry (I have my conceal and carry permit here in nevada). I support a ban on assault weapons. 
> 
> But I do have a question. Those stats about the safety of allowing people to conceal and carry are skewed a bit correct? The recent rash of gun deaths in the media showed most of these psychos were licensed gun owners not criminals buying them out of trunks of cars. Secondly NM (a state I resided in for 11yrs) has one of the highest homicide rates in the country per capita, as does southern Nevada, but both have conceal and carry laws. Like I said, I support conceal and carry by I don't think it makes people safer.


Statistics show that concealed carry laws drop crime. The psychos that go out and shoot people, sure sometimes they own their gun legally but they do not have licenses to carry it... having the ability to buy a gun legally and carry a gun legally are two very different things. The STRICT strict background checks for CCW licenses catch things like mental health history, etc. I think we need stricter background checks. But, there have been documented (and underreported) cases where CCW holders have stopped rampages in progress and other crimes. The volunteer security guard that killed the dude in Colorado that was about to murder the entire church? Yep, her personal weapon, her CCW license. Appalacian school of Law in Virginia? Same thing. Interesting topic that is, out of ALL the media reports about the Appalacian law incident, only about 1% mentioned that the citizens who stopped the killer were armed. The rest said they "subdued" him. 

Interviews with convicted felons have revealed that they're more scared of citizens with guns than the police. 

By the way, are you aware that "assault weapon" is a term coined by the media and anti-gun lobbyists that refers to SEMI-automatic r***es that LOOK like military weapons? Functionally they're no different than a standard hunting r***e... but they look scary, and they LOOK like the fully-automatics that the military uses. They're no different than a semi-automatic hunting r***e. It's not like the movies where every gangster on every block has an AK47. They are only used in approximately 1.4% of firearm crimes in the U.S. Big problem though... .38 specials with duct taped handles that are wielded by crackheads are far more dangerous on an incident scale. Actually the New Jersey rate of firearm crime with "Assault r***es" is so low that officers have a higher chance of confronting an escaped tiger from the zoo than an assault r***e.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon

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## Carlos_E

> Michelle is doing tons of campaigning, I think its abundantly clear this is one of those 2 for 1 deals. Also there is the whole guilty by association rule, as with Obama and his church that gave lewis pharakon a lifetime achievement award. You think if Mccain's church gave David Duke a lifetime achievement award it would be business as usual?


Pat Robertson. No difference.

----------


## lotaquestions

> mayor...president hmmm huge national disaster killing thousands? a mayor should have dealt with that, the president should have waited, your exactly right....sarcasm


im sorry if i dont feel any remorse for people who had three days to get out of a town and stayed so that they could rob and loot or are just to stupid to understand what a warning is. when i look on my tv and see a guy running from a store with a plasma tv while the streets are filled with water, im not going to feel sorry for the man if he drowns, sorry. accept responsibality for yourself, b/c in the end that is the only thing that you can control. :Tear:

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## STEROIDMD

> copy and paste, genius. Its not that hard. Conservative radio has a tendency to spin news in their favor. You should do your research before you post. You still haven't proven your statements as to why Obama's a racist as well.


He's guilty of racism by his close association with a racist. That pastor is/was part of his campaign. He's his personal friend and pastor of twenty years, the guy baptised his kids, and married him and his wife. He's trying to claim he'd knows nothing of his racist, kill whitey rhetoric? Give me a F**KIN brake!!! Imagine that was a white republican associated with that kind of racism...he'd be run right out of the senate and politics for life. Gotta love the double standard here...  : 1106:

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## zartan

> Pat Robertson. No difference.


im pretty sure pat robertson was supporting giuliani. Is there something I dont know, from what I saw Mccain has denounced pat robertson http://www.newsadvance.com/lna/news/...aduation/2382/

either way its kind of a moot point, McCain is a complete asswipe.

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## lotaquestions

> _is there no level of personal responsibabilty in the US?_
> 
> ^^^have you been raised in a black poverty stricken neighborhood? if so than ill shut up but otherwise you cant tell me how it is trying to overcome those obstacles bro


no but i was raised in poverty, and i didnt have the black wild card to play. i was just a poor white boy who had to work for everything i have gotten. but instead of waiting on someone to feel sorry for me and wipe my nose for me i took responsibality for my self (key word: responsibality). so do i know what it is like to be black...no do i know what it is like to be raised in poverty.....yes

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## STEROIDMD

> im sorry if i dont feel any remorse for people who had three days to get out of a town and stayed so that they could rob and loot or are just to stupid to understand what a warning is. when i look on my tv and see a guy running from a store with a plasma tv while the streets are filled with water, im not going to feel sorry for the man if he drowns, sorry. accept responsibality for yourself, b/c in the end that is the only thing that you can control.


Nice one dude! 100% agree.

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## STEROIDMD

> You can't say definatively that I'm wrong because from its inception the document was open to interpretation. The best example was the 'All men are created equal' part. The founding fathers initial interpretation was all white land holding men. And the fact that they weren't the only ones to 'interpret' the document proves I am not wrong. But trying to debate you on this is like trying to debate a fundamentalist christian about the bible and whether or not its open to interpretation. I assume you would be classified as a constitutional fundamentalist correct?
> 
> In reference to the border patrol agents in Iraq, where did you get that info. I'm not disputing your claim its just that is information I've never heard. And how would those agents be able to assist the Iraqis with military strategy (since Iraq borders are threatened by military force and not people wanting to come for jobs)? Isn't that best suited for our military (green berets)?


The founding fathers were pretty thorough. Don't you think if they meant for it to be open for interpretation they would have put that in there somewhere? You really think they would just not say anything and leave it so ambiguous? Doesn't make much sense to me...maybe I'm just not enlightened or progressive enough...

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## BgMc31

> He's guilty of racism by his close association with a racist. That pastor is/was part of his campaign. He's his personal friend and pastor of twenty years, the guy baptised his kids, and married him and his wife. He's trying to claim he'd knows nothing of his racist, kill whitey rhetoric? Give me a F**KIN brake!!! Imagine that was a white republican associated with that kind of racism...he'd be run right out of the senate and politics for life. Gotta love the double standard here...


Just like I posted to Zartan, where did Rev. Wright say anything about kill whitey? Where did he say anything racists. He simply used firery rhetoric to speak the historical ills of white america. You all seem to have selectively hearing. Watch his videos again and give me a racists quote.

Like I posted before, every republican that has been in congress and every republican candidate since 1960 has sought the endorsement of the late Strom Thurman who was a devout racists and segregationist, including McCain who attended his funeral and spoke highly of the man. Can we assume that every white republican politician is a racist because of their association with Thurman.

Your rant is extremely misguided so gives us a f*uckin break.

----------


## zartan

> Just like I posted to Zartan, where did Rev. Wright say anything about kill whitey? Where did he say anything racists. He simply used firery rhetoric to speak the historical ills of white america. You all seem to have selectively hearing. Watch his videos again and give me a racists quote.
> 
> Like I posted before, every republican that has been in congress and every republican candidate since 1960 has sought the endorsement of the late Strom Thurman who was a devout racists and segregationist, including McCain who attended his funeral and spoke highly of the man. Can we assume that every white republican politician is a racist because of their association with Thurman.
> 
> Your rant is extremely misguided so gives us a f*uckin break.


The church gave louis farrakhan a lifetime achievement award! Haha, Come on dude, even obama is trying to disown the shit Rev Wright said. Get your head out of the sand. You don't have to say 'kill whitey' or 'the black race is betta' to be a racist.

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## Tock

> this guy donated less than 1% of his million+ earnings this past year, not really democratic huh?


Um, and how do you know this? Is there a weblink to some source that knows about such things? 









> i bet that he wont be as stingy with my money.


Republicans have owned the Presidency, the Senate, and the Congress from 2000 to 2006. What did they do for us peons, other than start a war (for no good reason) and ensure steady business for defense companies and keep the oil companies rolling in record profits?

The gov't is bailing out multi-billion $$ banking companies, mortgage companies, and big companies get major tax write-offs and subsidies when they start up. But when I opened up my storefront business, I didn't qualify for anything -- not one red cent. 

Looks to me that the big guys are well-taken care of. The little guys, independant shop owners, well, we don't get anything other than tax bills.











> that is only around $10000! i made around 90k and i gave my church . . . close to that.


Today's Bible Lesson:

Matthew Chapter 6, verses 1 - 4:

"1": Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. 

"2": Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a *trumpet* before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 

"3": But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: 

"4": That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly. 





> not only is he a racist he is a hypocrite.


Tsk tsk tsk. 
You've announced your wonderful inclination to charity for all to see and hear; you have already received your reward.

No need for further comment . . .

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## BgMc31

> Michelle is doing tons of campaigning, I think its abundantly clear this is one of those 2 for 1 deals. Also there is the whole guilty by association rule, as with Obama and his church that gave lewis pharakon a lifetime achievement award. You think if Mccain's church gave David Duke a lifetime achievement award it would be business as usual?


Why don't you google McCain's spritiual guide, Rod Parsons (I believe that's his name), who calls for mass murder of Palistenians and the complete irradication of Islam. Not to mention the total annihilation of homosexuals. Google him and then shoot of your mouth!

----------


## zartan

Not shootin off my mouth, I already pointed out I would vote for Obama over McCain. I'm just not like you who chooses to see Obama as some kind of golden boy who can do no wrong.

btw his name is rod parsley

----------


## BgMc31

> The church gave louis farrakhan a lifetime achievement award! Haha, Come on dude, even obama is trying to disown the shit Rev Wright said. Get your head out of the sand. You don't have to say 'kill whitey' or 'the black race is betta' to be a racist.


lame dude, very lame. I don't assume someone is racists to justify my beleifs, I need proof. Where's the proof of Wright being racists? You assume Wright is racists because Rush and Hannity tell you so. Learn to think for yourself.

Lotaquestions, if you don't believe that white priveledge exist then there is no reason to discuss anything further. Your comment indicates that blacks use the race card everytime things don't go our way. That is simply not true. Unfortunately most of us blacks who are successful (and I'm sure Carlos can back me up on this) are successful in spite of our skin color not because of it. The same can't be said for many whites. If you ever decide to do some research on any successful black person I guarantee all of them have one thing in common, they all have overcome racism at some point in their life. Again, can't be said of most whites.

----------


## zartan

> lame dude, very lame. I don't assume someone is racists to justify my beleifs, I need proof. Where's the proof of Wright being racists? You assume Wright is racists because Rush and Hannity tell you so. Learn to think for yourself.


Dunno who the hell Hannity is, last thing I heard about Rush was his prescription drug addiction. maybe you should stop insulting and stick to topics, then you will have proven yourself as a thinker.
Not sure what you missed here, must be that selective hearing you got going on.

heres a good hateful one:
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/5-...otes/938732101

yeah Rev Wright is real sweet. Haha keep it up man.

----------


## BgMc31

I saw the video just as many times as everyone else. I asked you to post what he said that was racists. I know what he said was inflammatory and harsh, but racists? Hardly!

----------


## Act of God

> He simply used firery rhetoric to speak the historical ills of white america.


White America? What did any of us, or our ancesters (being that the majority of Americans are descendants of immigrants who arrived after slavery) have to do with it? Now you just want to lump all white people together...which is fine with me because if we're lumping groups together I know which one will win in the "who sucks" contest.

----------


## Act of God

> Um, and how do you know this? Is there a weblink to some source that knows about such things?


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...IcI&refer=home

----------


## BgMc31

> White America? What did any of us, or our ancesters (being that the majority of Americans are descendants of immigrants who arrived after slavery) have to do with it? Now you just want to lump all white people together...which is fine with me because if we're lumping groups together I know which one will win in the "who sucks" contest.


and who might that be pre-tell?

......hhhmmmm showing your true colors!!!!!

And where did I lump all white people together? I simply stated what Rev. Wright was referring to.

----------


## Act of God

> and who might that be pre-tell?
> 
> ......hhhmmmm showing your true colors!!!!!
> 
> And where did I lump all white people together? I simply stated what Rev. Wright was referring to.


THE ILLS OF WHITE AMERICA!!!!!!!


Look out, you're judging people by skin color!! If you don't vote Obama you are waisis!!!

lol

----------


## BgMc31

> THE ILLS OF WHITE AMERICA!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Look out, you're judging people by skin color!! If you don't vote Obama you are waisis!!!
> 
> lol


WTF are you talking about? I said Rev. Wright was speaking about the ills of white america (his speech, his perception). And when did anyone say that not voting for Obama makes them a racists. Are you not following the thread? This whole thing got started by people claiming Obama, his wife, and his pastor were racists. You need some serious help dude! And where did anyone claim any race/ethnicity/or culture sucked? Seriously dude, if can't debate intelligently and stoop to these childish antics, you know you do have the option of ignoring my posts!

----------


## Act of God

> WTF are you talking about? I said Rev. Wright was speaking about the ills of white america (his speech, his perception). And when did anyone say that not voting for Obama makes them a racists. Are you not following the thread? This whole thing got started by people claiming Obama, his wife, and his pastor were racists. You need some serious help dude! And where did anyone claim any race/ethnicity/or culture sucked? Seriously dude, if can't debate intelligently and stoop to these childish antics, you know you do have the option of ignoring my posts!


I was actually just playing in that last post, but I definitely get a vibe from some people that if you aren't voting for Obama it is BECAUSE he is black. This conversation is going on in like 5 forums I participate in, and it is the same thing going on everywhere.

I also take issue with talking about "White America". White America didn't do anything to black people. Certain white PEOPLE did, just like certain black people jumped me in a bar in 2001. I'm not going to say that "Black America" jumped me, because it would be inaccurate. As I said before, the VAST majority of white people in this country were not here when "White America" did those things.

This is why it is not healthy to dwell on the past and seek vengeance against a group of people. You don't want to be generalized, neither do we.

----------


## Carlos_E

> I was actually just playing in that last post, but I definitely get a vibe from some people that if you aren't voting for Obama it is BECAUSE he is black. This conversation is going on in like 5 forums I participate in, and it is the same thing going on everywhere.
> 
> I also take issue with talking about "White America". White America didn't do anything to black people. Certain white PEOPLE did, just like certain black people jumped me in a bar in 2001. I'm not going to say that "Black America" jumped me, because it would be inaccurate. As I said before, the VAST majority of white people in this country were not here when "White America" did those things.
> 
> This is why it is not healthy to dwell on the past and seek vengeance against a group of people. You don't want to be generalized, neither do we.


It did not take 5 White people to institute and enforce segregation. It took a very large number. That is the White America Rev Wright was referring to.

----------


## Act of God

> It did not take 5 White people to institute and enforce segregation. It took a very large number. That is the White America Rev Wright was referring to.


Still wasn't me or anyone related to me. You think he sees a difference when I'm walking down the street? I'm expected to, and able, to see a difference. Why can't he?

----------


## lotaquestions

> Lotaquestions, if you don't believe that white priveledge exist then there is no reason to discuss anything further. Your comment indicates that blacks use the race card everytime things don't go our way. That is simply not true. Unfortunately most of us blacks who are successful (and I'm sure Carlos can back me up on this) are successful in spite of our skin color not because of it. The same can't be said for many whites. If you ever decide to do some research on any successful black person I guarantee all of them have one thing in common, they all have overcome racism at some point in their life. Again, can't be said of most whites.


let me tell you about over comeing something, my adopted brother, who has never had a pot to piss in and wasnt born a genius by no means, worked his tail off in high school so that he could get a scholarship to get into college. he graduated with a 3.5 and an above avg. sat score. there were only a few scholarships given out at my school, and even thought a he had better grades, a way higher sat score, and a member of almost every club, the scholarship went to the black kid on the sole reason of his skin color (the kid ended up in jail for selling drugs :LOL: ). yeah we dont have to over come anything, get real dude. come down off of your black horse and join us in the real world,

----------


## lotaquestions

tock good point i shouldnt have been posted my earning/offerings, your right i didnt think much about it since nobody on here knows me or my church, but point noted.

----------


## lotaquestions

> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...IcI&refer=home


thanks for the link i wish i had it earlier

----------


## Carlos_E

> thanks for the link i wish i had it earlier


And he donated 6% after that. I posted the numbers on a previous page. Bloomberg.com left that part out. I wonder why. 

It's in his tax returns. Go look at the returns, not bloomberg.

----------


## lotaquestions

> And he donated 6% after that. I posted the numbers on a previous page. Bloomberg.com left that part out. I wonder why. 
> 
> It's in his tax returns. Go look at the returns, not bloomberg.


people tend to straiten up when they start to run for office

----------


## Act of God

> And he donated 6% after that. I posted the numbers on a previous page. Bloomberg.com left that part out. I wonder why. 
> 
> It's in his tax returns. Go look at the returns, not bloomberg.


Why would he(they) leave that part out? Seems to me that Obama made a clear 180 as soon as he got presidential aspirations. Considering what he is all about, you'd expect him to be a shining example of giving throughout his life.

----------


## Carlos_E

His donations percentage went up BEFORE he started running for president.

----------


## Act of God

> His donations percentage went up BEFORE he started running for president.


Hence why I said "presidential aspirations". Reading is FUNdamental  :BbAily:

----------


## Carlos_E

> Hence why I said "presidential aspirations". Reading is FUNdamental


Have you read his books? He had no intentions of running for president when he gave 6%. So no, he did not have presidential aspirations. Since you're fond of reading you should pick up a copy.

----------


## BgMc31

> let me tell you about over comeing something, my adopted brother, who has never had a pot to piss in and wasnt born a genius by no means, worked his tail off in high school so that he could get a scholarship to get into college. he graduated with a 3.5 and an above avg. sat score. there were only a few scholarships given out at my school, and even thought a he had better grades, a way higher sat score, and a member of almost every club, the scholarship went to the black kid on the sole reason of his skin color (the kid ended up in jail for selling drugs). yeah we dont have to over come anything, get real dude. come down off of your black horse and join us in the real world,


Are you serious with that crap. That response it ridiculous and sounds made-up. It fits every bullshit stereotype. Plus its obvious you have no idea how affirmative action and scholarships work and anybody can give an example of a white 'individual' overcoming shortcomings. You are missing the point of a systematic oppression of an entire race over a period of almost 400yrs. So until you realize the history of your 'real' world, your will always have your head in the sand. Get a clue dude, really!

----------


## Act of God

> Have you read his books? He had no intentions of running for president when he gave 6%. So no, he did not have presidential aspirations. Since you're fond of reading you should pick up a copy.


I'm too busy reading Coulter and I'm not a fan of writers who titled their books after the ramblings of racist preachers.

----------


## Carlos_E

> I'm too busy reading Coulter and I'm not a fan of writers who titled their books after the ramblings of racist preachers.


 :LOL:  So predictable. 

You should try Dreams from My Father, the other book.

----------


## SMCengineer

> You are missing the point of a systematic oppression of an entire race over a period of almost 400yrs.


Could you give me an example of this? I'm referring to has it's affected you and I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm genuinely curious.

----------


## Carlos_E

> Could you give me an example of this? I'm referring to has it's affected you and I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm genuinely curious.


Are you referring to racism?

----------


## BITTAPART2

> Um, and how do you know this? Is there a weblink to some source that knows about such things? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans have owned the Presidency, the Senate, and the Congress from 2000 to 2006. What did they do for us peons, other than start a war (for no good reason) and ensure steady business for defense companies and keep the oil companies rolling in record profits?
> ...


Tock, very good post

----------


## BgMc31

> Could you give me an example of this? I'm referring to has it's affected you and I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm genuinely curious.


what exactly do you want an example of? Do you wish for me to list examples of racism I've experienced?

----------


## Act of God

> So predictable. 
> 
> You should try Dreams from My Father, the other book.


Apparently his father's dream was to ditch his child and move far, far away  :Chairshot:

----------


## SMCengineer

> what exactly do you want an example of? Do you wish for me to list examples of racism I've experienced?


I'm referring to the systematic oppresion that you mentioned. In other words, how rascism or white america have held you down. I'm just trying to see what you mean by oppression.

----------


## zartan

mr Wright and his kind are 40 years outdated, preaching about how we had it coming 5 days after 9/11 happened. What a hateful bastard, and you Obama defenders can say what you will/bury your head in the sand, but Obama had this hate monger act has his preacher for 20 years even marrying him, and that speaks volumes, whether you want to admit it or not. And I don't even care if you or anyone else wants to take this 'look after my own' attitude, if some average joe wants to cop it thats fine, but I do think its small minded bullshit and certainly if you've been part of that you shouldn't be in line for a presidency.

----------


## gstatefaith

Conservatives had 8 years in the White House and destroyed our reputation and economy. It's the Democrats turn. Stop B!tching. You guys failed. OBAMA will turn this ship around.

----------


## zartan

> Conservatives had 8 years in the White House and destroyed our reputation and economy. It's the Democrats turn. Stop B!tching. You guys failed. OBAMA will turn this ship around.


Read the thread instead of posting mindless garbage.

----------


## gstatefaith

> Read the thread jerkoff.


the title was enough

so if u think I  : Hijack: , you can  :Asskiss:

----------


## SMCengineer

> Conservatives had 8 years in the White House and destroyed our reputation and economy. It's the Democrats turn. Stop B!tching. You guys failed. OBAMA will turn this ship around.


There are no conservatives in the White House.

----------


## zartan

you read the thread title, congratz on interjecting mindless propaganda

----------


## thegodfather

> Conservatives had 8 years in the White House and destroyed our reputation and economy. It's the Democrats turn. Stop B!tching. You guys failed. OBAMA will turn this ship around.


Thank you for an intelligent response to the discourse that was going on. You have really contributed greatly to the thread and articulated your ideas so clearly with documented facts to back them up I cant help but agree with you. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. 

As Blome said...There were no conservatives in the White House for the passed 8 years. Only neo-conservatives, who are not conservatives at all.

----------


## Carlos_E

You guys are hilarious. Conservatives, neo-conservatives. Whatever. When they have piss poor performance you try and distance yourself by giving them a new label.  :LOL:

----------


## SMCengineer

> You guys are hilarious. Conservatives, neo-conservatives. Whatever. When they have piss poor performance you try and distance yourself by giving them a new label.


Explain to me how Bush is a conservative.

----------


## Act of God

> Explain to me how Bush is a conservative.


I suspect his answer will be something like "uhhh he's a Republican and a Christian"

----------


## AandF6969

> what exactly do you want an example of? Do you wish for me to list examples of racism I've experienced?


Off topic, but I hope you became more educated about "assault weapons" when the truth was brought to light. Amazing what the media will have you believe.

----------


## lotaquestions

> Are you serious with that crap. That response it ridiculous and sounds made-up. It fits every bullshit stereotype. Plus its obvious you have no idea how affirmative action and scholarships work and anybody can give an example of a white 'individual' overcoming shortcomings. You are missing the point of a systematic oppression of an entire race over a period of almost 400yrs. So until you realize the history of your 'real' world, your will always have your head in the sand. Get a clue dude, really!


i was giving you a personal insite to my life and experience with racism. what do you thing blacks are the only one who experience it? blacks are not the only people who have to over come poverty, but they are do get certain help that is not available to a white kid. they get this help just b/c they are black, not for any other reason. they dont have white only scholarships or whites only colleges (point of the story). this to me is the strongest example of racism in society to day. guess who are the ones being descriminated against? whites. there are more whites in poverty than blacks across our nation. in the last 400 yrs? yeah up to the 60s. but i get it man its cool to have someone to blame for all of your shortcomings. wether or not you think what the rev. said was racist or not, you cant deny that if it had been the preacher/mentor/bestfriend of any other canidate there shot at the presidency would be over with out a question. no one can deny that no matter what race they are. 

p.s. im not going to post something personal that is not true. and if your curious he joined the military (mariens) and is married and adopted his younger brother who is 16.

----------


## BgMc31

> i was giving you a personal insite to my life and experience with racism. what do you thing blacks are the only one who experience it? blacks are not the only people who have to over come poverty, but they are do get certain help that is not available to a white kid. they get this help just b/c they are black, not for any other reason. they dont have white only scholarships or whites only colleges (point of the story). this to me is the strongest example of racism in society to day. guess who are the ones being descriminated against? whites. there are more whites in poverty than blacks across our nation. in the last 400 yrs? yeah up to the 60s. but i get it man its cool to have someone to blame for all of your shortcomings. wether or not you think what the rev. said was racist or not, you cant deny that if it had been the preacher/mentor/bestfriend of any other canidate there shot at the presidency would be over with out a question. no one can deny that no matter what race they are. 
> 
> p.s. im not going to post something personal that is not true. and if your curious he joined the military (mariens) and is married and adopted his younger brother who is 16.


Dude, the more you post the more ignorant you sound (ignorant = lack of knowledge)! Where to begin....

1. That story IS made up because there isn't a scholarship in the country that works like that. If its real please post the name of the scholarship so I can give it to the 15-20 kids who could benefit from it. A little lesson in the way 'open' scholarships work (open meaning available to all students, that are offered by major universities): If two students, one black and one white, have similar grades, test scores, and achievements AND if the university has a quota to fulfill (in order to receive government money to reflect the broader society), then the black student will be given the opportunity ahead of the white student. This is how all entitlement programs work. And don't give me this shit about lowering standards to accept minority kids because everyone benefits from that because standards are lowered for everyone.

2. Sure they're are scholarships offered to blacks simply because they are black, but all those scholarship are offered by private organization and they all have academic and civic requirements to benefit from the scholarship.

3. There are no 'BLACKS ONLY' colleges or universities. There are, however, 'historically' black colleges all of which have whites and other minorities attending. Ask Carlos, I believe he attended a historically black college. These institutions were born out of necessity because up until the early 70s there were many colleges that didn't allow blacks. But once school integration reached everywhere, many historically black colleges folded. Now how come no one ever calls the Ivy League or other large colleges 'Historically' white colleges? Maybe a bit of denial. Most of them still sport minority levels of less than 5%. Hell the college I went to had less than 3% black population, 99% of whom, male and female, we on athletic scholarship (myself included).

4. There are several 'whites' only scholarships available. The Knights of Columbus gives out scholarships to Italian-Americans. The Sons of the Confederacy and the Daughters of the Confederacy give out scholarships. Jewish organizations as well as Celtic/Gaelic/Scottish clan descendants (Wallace and Campbell come to mind off hand) also all give scholarships. There are a host of others.

5. What shortcomings do I have that I blamed whites for? You don't know me and I've posted before that I am successful in spite of my skin color not because of it. Check my post in the new member intro section for my background or better yet, come to Vegas and look me up to see for yourself.

6. The whining that Obama is getting preferential treatment when it comes to his association with Rev. Wright is absurd. The fact that John McCains spiritual adviser's hateful rhetoric have yet to be covered by the media. Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell similar comments and their support of conservative politicians is glanced over is proof that Obama is getting unfair treatment in this matter. How many time was his response speech (or portions of it) are replayed as compared to the times Rev. Wrights 'selective' comments are replayed? 

In closing, the biggest load of bullshit out there is whites claiming they are the most discrimated against. The last time I checked they hold the majority of the position of power and make more money as opposed to other groups. Liie Chris Rock said "What are you complaining about? YOU'RE WHITE!" Wah, wah, wah, who's playing the victim now? Try whining to someone who doesn't pick up a book every now and then.

Blome, thanks for the intelligent question. I'll PM you my 'personal' experiences. But bear in mind that I haven't been oppressed because I chose not to be. I've found ways around racists obstacles all my life on my road to personal success. But thank God I had parents (yes a mother AND father) who were great examples of overcoming America's dirty little secret...racism!

----------


## BgMc31

> Off topic, but I hope you became more educated about "assault weapons" when the truth was brought to light. Amazing what the media will have you believe.


As an avid hunter and former member of law enforcement, I was already cognitive of the similarities between hunting r***es and assault r***es. But I am also aware of the differences (ie. larger magazine capacities, generally higher rates of fire, shorter range). But those are really just semantics. I know of no one who hunts with an AK47 or AR15, even though they can be used for hunting that is not their intended use.

Here's a question then, if its ok to on an assault r***e because its similar to a r***e is it safe to assume that I can own a tank, fighter plane, etc. Does the 2nd amendment protect my rights to own those things? It may seem like an absurd question, but where is the line drawn? And since, according to you all, the constitution isn't open to interpretation there is no line correct?

----------


## AandF6969

> As an avid hunter and former member of law enforcement, I was already cognitive of the similarities between hunting r***es and assault r***es. But I am also aware of the differences (ie. larger magazine capacities, generally higher rates of fire, shorter range). But those are really just semantics. I know of no one who hunts with an AK47 or AR15, even though they can be used for hunting that is not their intended use.
> 
> Here's a question then, if its ok to on an assault r***e because its similar to a r***e is it safe to assume that I can own a tank, fighter plane, etc. Does the 2nd amendment protect my rights to own those things? It may seem like an absurd question, but where is the line drawn? And since, according to you all, the constitution isn't open to interpretation there is no line correct?


Oh I fully agree that fighter planes, tanks, fully automatics, etc. are absurd for the public to own, no matter how good your record is. But, the media campaign about semiautomatic AK47s and AR15s being "just like military weapons" is absolutely retarded... They're not. They're like a semiautomatic hunting r***e, but they look so scary! And they're used in like 1% of crimes, there aren't shootouts in the streets with these things. During the "assault weapon ban" of 1994 the barrel shroud and collapsible stock on an AR15 could make it illegal, and if it didn't have those two things it was totally legal.... what? Since a collapsible stock and heat shield make it so much more deadly...

The reason the phrase "assault weapon" even exists is because stupid-ass soccer moms who have seen AR15s and AK47s in games and movies and piss themselves every time they see them, think that people can just go out and buy a fully automatic one. Of course they're going to vote for an assault weapon ban, they don't know what a fukking assault weapon is... but if you told them you were going to take her dad's hunting r***e, it'd be a bit different.

----------


## SMCengineer

> Blome, thanks for the intelligent question. I'll PM you my 'personal' experiences. But bear in mind that I haven't been oppressed because I chose not to be. I've found ways around racists obstacles all my life on my road to personal success. But thank God I had parents (yes a mother AND father) who were great examples of overcoming America's dirty little secret...racism!


I don't know if this was sarcasm or not (it is the internet), but that question was serious.

----------


## SMCengineer

> Here's a question then, if its ok to on an assault r***e because its similar to a r***e is it safe to assume that I can own a tank, fighter plane, etc. Does the 2nd amendment protect my rights to own those things? It may seem like an absurd question, but where is the line drawn? *And since, according to you all, the constitution isn't open to interpretation there is no line correct?*


It's not open to interpretation. 

The second amendment:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and *bear Arms*, shall not be infringed."

Bear Arms being the operative word.

The definition of bear Arms: 
*a. to carry weapons.* 
b. to serve as a member of the military or of contending forces: His religious convictions kept him from bearing arms, but he served as an ambulance driver with the Red Cross. 

Can you carry a tank? How about a fighter jet? That's your answer.

----------


## Act of God

> Can you carry a tank? How about a fighter jet? That's your answer.


Depends, am I on or off cycle?

----------


## SMCengineer

^^on, but no tren

----------


## BgMc31

> It's not open to interpretation. 
> 
> The second amendment:
> "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and *bear Arms*, shall not be infringed."
> 
> Bear Arms being the operative word.
> 
> The definition of bear Arms: 
> *a. to carry weapons.* 
> ...


But can I not carry a rocket launcher, anti-tank weapon, any series of shoulder fired missile system, etc.? These do border on the absurd but again where is the line drawn? 

Oh, in regards to your original question, I wasn't being sarcastic, I will PM you my own experiences later this evening. That's real talk!

----------


## lotaquestions

> Dude, the more you post the more ignorant you sound (ignorant = lack of knowledge)! Where to begin....
> 
> 1. That story IS made up because there isn't a scholarship in the country that works like that. If its real please post the name of the scholarship so I can give it to the 15-20 kids who could benefit from it. A little lesson in the way 'open' scholarships work (open meaning available to all students, that are offered by major universities): If two students, one black and one white, have similar grades, test scores, and achievements AND if the university has a quota to fulfill (in order to receive government money to reflect the broader society), then the black student will be given the opportunity ahead of the white student. This is how all entitlement programs work. And don't give me this shit about lowering standards to accept minority kids because everyone benefits from that because standards are lowered for everyone.


im sorry im to ignorant to understand how a decesion based soley on ones race is not racism...please enlighten me. are we not supposed to be judged by character of a man not the color of his skin...if the white kid has better "character" than why doesnt he get excepted? it is b/c the color of his skin...tell me how lowering standards helps everyone? seems to me that the guy with the higher qualification is loosing, but i dont have any fancy facts to type or distorted data from the website of my choice to go by all i have is common sense.

----------


## lotaquestions

> 3. There are no 'BLACKS ONLY' colleges or universities. There are, however, 'historically' black colleges all of which have whites and other minorities attending. Ask Carlos, I believe he attended a historically black college. These institutions were born out of necessity because up until the early 70s there were many colleges that didn't allow blacks. But once school integration reached everywhere, many historically black colleges folded. Now how come no one ever calls the Ivy League or other large colleges 'Historically' white colleges? Maybe a bit of denial. Most of them still sport minority levels of less than 5%. Hell the college I went to had less than 3% black population, 99% of whom, male and female, we on athletic scholarship (myself included).
> 
> 4. There are several 'whites' only scholarships available. The Knights of Columbus gives out scholarships to Italian-Americans. The Sons of the Confederacy and the Daughters of the Confederacy give out scholarships. Jewish organizations as well as Celtic/Gaelic/Scottish clan descendants (Wallace and Campbell come to mind off hand) also all give scholarships. There are a host of others.
> 
> 5. What shortcomings do I have that I blamed whites for? You don't know me and I've posted before that I am successful in spite of my skin color not because of it. Check my post in the new member intro section for my background or better yet, come to Vegas and look me up to see for yourself.
> 
> 6. The whining that Obama is getting preferential treatment when it comes to his association with Rev. Wright is absurd. The fact that John McCains spiritual adviser's hateful rhetoric have yet to be covered by the media. Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell similar comments and their support of conservative politicians is glanced over is proof that Obama is getting unfair treatment in this matter. How many time was his response speech (or portions of it) are replayed as compared to the times Rev. Wrights 'selective' comments are replayed? 
> 
> In closing, the biggest load of bullshit out there is whites claiming they are the most discrimated against. The last time I checked they hold the majority of the position of power and make more money as opposed to other groups. Liie Chris Rock said "What are you complaining about? YOU'RE WHITE!" Wah, wah, wah, who's playing the victim now? Try whining to someone who doesn't pick up a book every now and then.
> ...


3.these ivy legue colleges are predominatly white because they dont lower there standards to accept people who arnt qualified. im sorry that there is no magic black points.

4.i come from a AA school, i guess that we are not big enough for all these. 

5.congradulations, please help others and set a good ex (not sarcastic, though every thing else on this post is)

6.come on man all minorities get a break on the race issue, i dont know why yu wont acknowledge it, even if you dont think that obama is. look at who you listed chris rock, is there any famous white comedian that could get away with the things he says? you know the answer.

and why would i remember the name of the scholarship if he didnt get it, or even if he did.

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## AandF6969

The constitution is my concealed carry permit.

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## BgMc31

> 3.these ivy legue colleges are predominatly white because they dont lower there standards to accept people who arnt qualified. im sorry that there is no magic black points.
> 
> 4.i come from a AA school, i guess that we are not big enough for all these. 
> 
> 5.congradulations, please help others and set a good ex (not sarcastic, though every thing else on this post is)
> 
> 6.come on man all minorities get a break on the race issue, i dont know why yu wont acknowledge it, even if you dont think that obama is. look at who you listed chris rock, is there any famous white comedian that could get away with the things he says? you know the answer.
> 
> and why would i remember the name of the scholarship if he didnt get it, or even if he did.


So Ivy League schools don't give special 'black' points, I thought you said we get special treatment, so which is it? Make up your mind, you are starting to allow your anger to increase your ignorance. I on the other hand don't acknowledge minority special treatment because it doesn't exist. Prove to me that it does. Stats dude, where are your stats.

You have no idea what you are talking about do you? Read a book for once and you will have your eyes opened. Obviously you want to blame minorities for your shortcomings. You play the victim much better than any minority.

What white comedian can get away with shit Chris Rock does... GEORGE CARLIN!

The reason why lower standards works for everyone is because more of every race get admitted. But no one lowers standards anymore anyway (thanks to U of Michigan challenge of affirmative action which I agree with).

The reason why you can't remember the name of the scholarship is because IT DOESN'T EXIST! Your arguments are baseless. 

Its like arguing with a 12yr old who thinks they know it all regardless of what proof you show them. Obviously your AA education was a complete waste of money.

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## Act of God

> What white comedian can get away with shit Chris Rock does... GEORGE CARLIN!


He falls under the technically Jewish exemption clause of 1974.

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## BgMc31

> He falls under the technically Jewish exemption clause of 1974.


white is white dude! lol!

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## zartan

> 6. The whining that Obama is getting preferential treatment when it comes to his association with Rev. Wright is absurd. The fact that John McCains spiritual adviser's hateful rhetoric have yet to be covered by the media. Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell similar comments and their support of conservative politicians is glanced over is proof that Obama is getting unfair treatment in this matter. How many time was his response speech (or portions of it) are replayed as compared to the times Rev. Wrights 'selective' comments are replayed?


Not sure why you keep denying the facts, it seems as though in your mind you can't or won't accept the fact that Obama isnt the second coming of Christ. Why do you bring up McCain, we're not debating McCain here, hes already thrown his chips in with Bush which brands him a complete jackass, so theres no need to draw similarities, besides McCain and the religious zealots you mentioned don't share the same intimate relationship Obama has with Wright. McCain was trying to get votes from the religions right, in fact in prior election he insulted the preachers you mentioned. A better point to make might be that hes willing to do whatever to win votes. Seems like you've been listening to too many liberal radio programs!

Just to get this clear, do you even think Mr. Wright was out of line in any of the outrageous shit he said? Seems like you're prescribing to the talk like 'he jus a good ole black preacher using firey words to get the people goin!', rather than acknowledging the fact hes a racist hate monger who Obama considers 'like an uncle'.

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## lotaquestions

obviously we percieve things in a different way. unlike you, i dont see where the black race has to overcome adversity any more than the white race. what do blacks have to overcome that everyone else doesnt. give me a law that applies to blacks that doesnt apply to every other american? we all have to overcome adversity in some form to be successful. 

im not blaming anyone for my shortcomings. im 22 y/o, come from a broken home, in the middle of nowhere, and earn in the top 1% of my county, with no college education. i dont know where this conversation turned but i dont even remeber what we were originally talking about, my last three post have all been personal.

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## Act of God

> Not sure why you keep denying the facts, it seems as though in your mind you can't or won't accept the fact that Obama isnt the second coming of Christ.


I think the reason is rather obvious, although I doubt he'd admit it.

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## BgMc31

Where in any of posts did I say Obama was the second coming? I actually gave reasons why I support his candacy, none of which borders on religious fanaticism. I think Obama is the best of the three available.

I brought up McCain in response to a post saying that McCain hasn't any similar affiliations. I proved that he did. Regardless of why he's aligned himself with this zealot, the fact remains he still has and the media and conservatives have yet to mention this at all. Purely a double standard.

Do I think Wright was out of hand? OF COURSE! But no one has yet to provide a single statement that was racists. I don't support what he said and it was clearly offensive. But there is a difference between racists speech and offensive speech.

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## Act of God

> white is white dude! lol!


1. It was a joke
2. White is not white, but whatever

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## zartan

> Where in any of posts did I say Obama was the second coming? I actually gave reasons why I support his candacy, none of which borders on religious fanaticism. I think Obama is the best of the three available.
> 
> I brought up McCain in response to a post saying that McCain hasn't any similar affiliations. I proved that he did. Regardless of why he's aligned himself with this zealot, the fact remains he still has and the media and conservatives have yet to mention this at all. Purely a double standard.
> 
> Do I think Wright was out of hand? OF COURSE! But no one has yet to provide a single statement that was racists. I don't support what he said and it was clearly offensive. But there is a difference between racists speech and offensive speech.


Hes a hate monger going on rants about 'white america', I'm sure that really does wonders for the people taking in that rhetoric. No better than Pat Robertson saying Katrina was because of gays. No wonder so many black people have this idea of 'us' and 'them'. 

And I'm guessing the reason the media doesnt go after McCain is because of THE REASONS I LISTED. Hes clearly kissing up to the religious right in a shameless ploy to win votes, not toting the religious whackos as part of the family.

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## BgMc31

> obviously we percieve things in a different way. unlike you, i dont see where the black race has to overcome adversity any more than the white race. what do blacks have to overcome that everyone else doesnt. give me a law that applies to blacks that doesnt apply to every other american? we all have to overcome adversity in some form to be successful. 
> 
> im not blaming anyone for my shortcomings. im 22 y/o, come from a broken home, in the middle of nowhere, and earn in the top 1% of my county, with no college education. i dont know where this conversation turned but i dont even remeber what we were originally talking about, my last three post have all been personal.


And therein lies the problem. Of course you can't see what a black person has to overcome because you aren't black just like I'm insensitive to the perspective of a white man (you) who complains about minority 'special' treatment because I don't see it. We see this great country through different lenses but it doesn't mean we love it more or less than the other. Its debates like this that can open people's eyes and maybe one day this can all be resolved. The problem is politicians and the media only talk at one side which polarizes people. Libs listen to their shows and conservatives listen to theirs. Same with blacks and whites. But that is another reason why I'm supporting Obama. Good or bad, he's someone who is finally forcing us to face the problem of race in this country. Everybody always says that this race issue keeps us from facing 'real' issues that need to be dealt with. But race is such a fundamental issue in this country that has never really been faced before...and now its unavoidable!

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## zartan

> And therein lies the problem. Of course you can't see what a black person has to overcome because you aren't black just like I'm insensitive to the perspective of a white man (you) who complains about minority 'special' treatment because I don't see it. We see this great country through different lenses but it doesn't mean we love it more or less than the other. Its debates like this that can open people's eyes and maybe one day this can all be resolved. The problem is politicians and the media only talk at one side which polarizes people. Libs listen to their shows and conservatives listen to theirs. Same with blacks and whites. But that is another reason why I'm supporting Obama. Good or bad, he's someone who is finally forcing us to face the problem of race in this country. Everybody always says that this race issue keeps us from facing 'real' issues that need to be dealt with. But race is such a fundamental issue in this country that has never really been faced before...and now its unavoidable!


Good to see your voting for a president based on race. What exactly would you hope to see accomplished by the fact the president is half black? IF anything it should show all the nay sayers that America is pretty advanced in terms of race when we are willing to give the highest office in the land to a man percieved as a member of a 12% minority!

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## BgMc31

> 1. It was a joke
> 2. White is not white, but whatever


So was my response (ie LoL remark).

Serious question: what makes a white man white? Maybe I'm missing something.

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## zartan

> So was my response (ie LoL remark).
> 
> Serious question: what makes a white man white? Maybe I'm missing something.


Jewish isn't white, havent you had your daily dose of liberal radio?

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## BgMc31

> Good to see your voting for a president based on race. What exactly would you hope to see accomplished by the fact the president is half black? IF anything it should show all the nay sayers that America is pretty advanced in terms of race when we are willing to give the highest office in the land to a man percieved as a member of a 12% minority!


I'm not voting for him simply because of the race issue. If you read my previous posts you will see there are a litany of other reasons as well. Plus you last statement is true, if elected it not only shows the world how far we progressed but it also shows ourselves that skin color is just that...skin color.

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## BgMc31

> Jewish isn't white, havent you had your daily dose of liberal radio?


I don't listen to talk radio. Espn radio and shade 45 on sirius is what I listen to daily.

So George Carlin, Billy Crystal, Kirk Douglas, Adam Sandler, John Daly, these people aren't white? Man I must have missed something. If they aren't white maybe Sammy Sosa and Big Papi, or Tim Duncan and Colin Powell aren't black since none were born here.

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## Act of God

> I don't listen to talk radio. Espn radio and shade 45 on sirius is what I listen to daily.
> 
> So George Carlin, Billy Crystal, Kirk Douglas, Adam Sandler, John Daly, these people aren't white? Man I must have missed something. If they aren't white maybe Sammy Sosa and Big Papi, or Tim Duncan and Colin Powell aren't black since none were born here.


To quote the great Peter Griffin - "All I'm saying is you put a Jewish guy next to an Arab...I can't tell the difference"

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## BgMc31

Oh the wisdom of Peter Griffin. Funny yet oh so true when speaking of middle eastern Jews. But most Jews live in Russia (the original Caucasians).

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## zartan

> I'm not voting for him simply because of the race issue. If you read my previous posts you will see there are a litany of other reasons as well. Plus you last statement is true, if elected it not only shows the world how far we progressed but it also shows ourselves that skin color is just that...skin color.


Obama making it this far in the election is proof of that already. Not to say you aren't doing this, but people should be focused on the issues, not voting for Obama because hes black or to prove a point. That is ass backwards racism... Its like the black student saying to the black professor, 'cmon man hook me up, we are brothas'! I don't think theres any white groups of people meeting up saying 'cmon fellas we gotta make a plan to git these blacks and asians down! But there are groups of black people doin it and publicly and in churches with people like Wright preaching intolerance rather then respect and overcoming adversity through persistence.

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## AandF6969

> Good to see your voting for a president based on race.


Yeah... um isn't that racist?

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## lotaquestions

> So Ivy League schools don't give special 'black' points, I thought you said we get special treatment, so which is it? Make up your mind, you are starting to allow your anger to increase your ignorance. I on the other hand don't acknowledge minority special treatment because it doesn't exist. Prove to me that it does. Stats dude, where are your stats.
> 
> You have no idea what you are talking about do you? Read a book for once and you will have your eyes opened. Obviously you want to blame minorities for your shortcomings. You play the victim much better than any minority.
> 
> What white comedian can get away with shit Chris Rock does... GEORGE CARLIN!
> 
> The reason why lower standards works for everyone is because more of every race get admitted. But no one lowers standards anymore anyway (thanks to U of Michigan challenge of affirmative action which I agree with).
> 
> The reason why you can't remember the name of the scholarship is because IT DOESN'T EXIST! Your arguments are baseless. 
> ...


im apologize for not having a book of "how to hold the black man down" sitting in front of me to pull facts from. all i have is my opinion and own personal experiences.

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## Act of God

> im apologize for not having a book of "how to hold the black man down" sitting in front of me to pull facts from. all i have is my opinion and own personal experiences.


You don't need a book to know how to hold the black man down. Here's the short version:

Be white

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## thegodfather

Actually there is significant evidence that the SAT's are preferrential to race. The reason is simple, because the SAT's are written by intelligent, well educated, and well to do white people, the questions often reflect areas of higher wealth and education, that many blacks are not priviledged to, since on average, more blacks come from lower socioeconomic backgrounds than do whites. 

For instance, a question might ask... "Fire is to heat as a Piano is to........" 

I remember reading this study so my quote is not verbatim. But the point is, in order for you to know an analogy to a Piano, you most likely would need to be exposed to such things. Pianos are generally only found in Upper Middle class homes. 


This is one of the main reasons that every town must have a certain percentage of low-income housing. It gives people of lower socioeconomic backgrounds the opportunity to be educated in better schools. 

The problem with statements like "the black man should just work harder." is this. It is like trying to play a game by the rules, but a game that you didnt have a hand in writing the rules. There are several types of racism. There is what is called Primary and Secondary Institutionalized Racism. 

For instance we use a report by Staiger. In this instance a particular elementary school was examined. After schools were desegregated this school appeared to be desegregated. However, the school policy instituted a program called "GROW" it was what we often referr to as "Gifted&Talented." Students were not put into Gifted&Talented based on academic merit. They were selected by teachers, and they were given access to more resources than the regular students. Almost all of the students in Gifted&talented were white, although the school was very much racially integrated, the GROW program was almost exclusively white. So this is an instance of something we call "INSULATION." The racial project in this case was to integrate schools, once the legislation was passed the schools were integrated, yet the school responded with an insulating policy to sustain the segregation. There was also an idea surrounding the GROW program that the students in there needed to be "protected" from the 'rest' of the students. Another interesting fact, in the classrooms with GROW students there were signs on the wall like "You're a WINNER" and other such encouraging statements. In the classrooms with the 'rest' of the students (mostly the black students) the signs on the wall were the RULES and PUNISHMENTS. 

So this is just one of many many many instances of institutionalized racism that is not legislated, but insulated from the passed legislation. So while on the outside if you look at the race of the students attending the school it appears integrated, on the inside it is a different story.

Another instance, is where a person controls a particular resource. Perhaps they are a human resources director and they have to pick a candidate for a managerial position. If they allow racial stereotypes to influence their decisions, they are then practicing discrimination. If this person has a black,white, and asian applicant. This person may say to themselves "Well, Asians are really good at math and technical jobs so Im not going to promote this person." and then the same person says "Well, black males are mostly lazy and not that intelligent." And then that person promotes the white person into the job. This is just one of many examples of Non-Institutionalized Racism. 

So while it is easy to say "just work harder." The truth is that minorities are playing OUR game on OUR field and by OUR rules that we've written. What I'm saying is, the game is rigged. Do not ask me for any solutions to the problems, because I frankly dont agree with legislation, and believe time is the only thing that can fix the problem. I'm just sharing the knowledge with you that I have studied.

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## AandF6969

I'm just curious how a test can be racist... obviously intelligent, well educated people are going to write the tests... should they just dumb it down to a 6th grade level? Or lower everyone's standards?

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## zartan

> I'm just curious how a test can be racist... obviously intelligent, well educated people are going to write the tests... should they just dumb it down to a 6th grade level? Or lower everyone's standards?


Exactly.. and why are Asians and Jews always smashing everyone? Are there a lot of questions about how to boil white rice or how many days in Hanukkah or something?? That whole argument is a cop out, the test is about discipline and values. If you want to say that people that come from lower class don't do well because they don't come from proper homes giving them discipline/encouragement to do well (AKA THEY DIDNT STUDY), would be a lot more accurate. Also that research is outdated, they changed the 'socioeconomic questions' now supposedly.

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## thegodfather

> I'm just curious how a test can be racist... obviously intelligent, well educated people are going to write the tests... should they just dumb it down to a 6th grade level? Or lower everyone's standards?


Its not about intelligence but rather the life experiences that one is exposed to due to their socioeconomic background.

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## BgMc31

Godfather, great posts, but you are wasting your time trying to explain this to some people. I know you explained it in a previous thread but the same arguments kept coming up. They don't realize that Jews and Asians do generally come from higher socioeconomic areas than blacks, hispanics, and rural whites. 

I tried explaining the concept to co-worker and I explained it like this: Could an upper middle class person from Manhattan pass a standardized test developed and administered by someone from an indigenous population in Brazil? No, it doesn't mean that person lacks intelligence but rather that person cannot relate to the experiences necessary to answer those questions correctly. I know that example is a bit extreme but the same does apply when dealing with lower socioeconomic standings of groups.

But again, we will continue to hear the argument that we shouldn't dumb down testing. They just do get it!

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## zartan

> Godfather, great posts, but you are wasting your time trying to explain this to some people. I know you explained it in a previous thread but the same arguments kept coming up. They don't realize that Jews and Asians do generally come from higher socioeconomic areas than blacks, hispanics, and rural whites. 
> 
> I tried explaining the concept to co-worker and I explained it like this: Could an upper middle class person from Manhattan pass a standardized test developed and administered by someone from an indigenous population in Brazil? No, it doesn't mean that person lacks intelligence but rather that person cannot relate to the experiences necessary to answer those questions correctly. I know that example is a bit extreme but the same does apply when dealing with lower socioeconomic standings of groups.
> 
> But again, we will continue to hear the argument that we shouldn't dumb down testing. They just do get it!


Yes I do 'get it' and I'm saying its a moot point. If you want to be relevant in modern work force, you need to be able to integrate and have applicable skills.

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## zartan

If I really wanted to be a dick I would direct you to IQ tests that accepted people only from middle class backgrounds. Thats pointless, intelligence is negligible when an average intelligence person can go farther than an intelligent person by being more disciplined.

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## BgMc31

> Yes I do 'get it' and I'm saying its a moot point. If you want to be relevant in modern work force, you need to be able to integrate and have applicable skills.


True but what if you don't have the resources to obtain those 'applicable' skills? That's the issue.

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## zartan

> True but what if you don't have the resources to obtain those 'applicable' skills? That's the issue.


If by resources you mean college, everyone has the opportunity to take those resources through financial aid, scholarships, student loans.

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## AandF6969

> If by resources you mean college, everyone has the opportunity to take those resources through financial aid, scholarships, student loans.


Yep... and if they don't apply themselves, and don't work for things, then hey the world always needs janitors and people to work at mcdonalds... and crack dealers

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