# FITNESS and NUTRITION FORUM > WORKOUT AND TRAINING >  **The Exercise Clinic**

## dec11

Have a lagging body part?

Unsure how to set up a programme? :Hmmmm: 

Or just plain clueless about the whole thing? :Shrug: 


Post your Q's up and i'll have you on your way to glory in no time!!  :Rockon: 

(Purely for exercise only, no AAS q's please).

*
i will point out that advice given is within my experiences in 20yrs of training, i dont google and copy and paste. also if im stumped by a particular case i will say so rather than offer up 'guess advice' to make myself look good*

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## "Maximus"

I'm having difficulty growing my calves man.. I'm not sure if this is due to my strict cardio sessions but they are impervious to any growth of any kind.. I'm suffering from "skinny leg" syndrome; frustrating.. What should I attempt to do differently?

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## dec11

> I'm having difficulty growing my calves man.. I'm not sure if this is due to my strict cardio sessions but they are impervious to any growth of any kind.. I'm suffering from "skinny leg" syndrome; frustrating.. What should I attempt to do differently?


calves are often a sticking point for many, as they get constant use from walking, they're harder to rest and grow.

try hitting them with lighter weight/ higher reps, many report good effect from this.

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## JohnnyVegas

I have a back injury that keeps me from doing squats as they compress my spine. I tried squatting a few weeks ago, and it felt like someone was sticking needles in my fingertips after every set. My fingers were slightly numb for a few days after. Heavy leg presses also cause discomfort, maybe because my BP spikes? Even lunges hurt because I am still holding weight that compresses my spine. What can I do other than leg extensions, leg curls and seated calf presses for my legs? They are lagging.

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## dec11

> I have a back injury that keeps me from doing squats as they compress my spine. I tried squatting a few weeks ago, and it felt like someone was sticking needles in my fingertips after every set. My fingers were slightly numb for a few days after. *Heavy leg presses* also cause discomfort, maybe because my BP spikes? Even lunges hurt because I am still holding weight that compresses my spine. What can I do other than leg extensions, leg curls and seated calf presses for my legs? They are lagging.


1) try doing single leg presses, puts a less overall strain on the lower back, keep them light to start and feel your way in.

2) try front squats, again start off lightly if unfamiliar.

3) you dont need to bang on the weight for hypertrophy from squatting, try cutting down to 75% of your max weight and hitting the 15-20rep range

4) you have to be sensible about it, if you still feel pain in the lower back then resign squatting and leg presses to the bin. Can you elaborate on the back injury please?

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## JohnnyVegas

> 1) try doing single leg presses, puts a less overall strain on the lower back, keep them light to start and feel your way in.
> 
> 2) try front squats, again start off lightly if unfamiliar.
> 
> 3) you dont need to bang on the weight for hypertrophy from squatting, try cutting down to 75% of your max weight and hitting the 15-20rep range
> 
> 4) you have to be sensible about it, if you still feel pain in the lower back then resign squatting and leg presses to the bin. Can you elaborate on the back injury please?


I never though about doing single leg presses. It cuts the weight in half. Duh.

I started light with the squats. I am sure I was at 75% or less of max when I experimented, so you are right that they might just be out. I figured I would try them every six months to see if there is a change. That is what I did with lifting in general for six years (longer maybe) before I got back to the gym last December.

Back injury is one extruded disk (don't remember location) and three bulging disks. The injury presented itself as hip pain for months before my lower back started aching. Then one day I leaned backwards and it felt like my back exploded. I could barely move for months and was on 800mg of Advil several times a day. Spinal decompression therapy brought back my functionality, but I still need to be careful and still get hip pain on occasion, which lets me know I need to back off the intensity. It doesn't just happen with leg exercises. All shoulder exercises can cause discomfort but I work through it. Sometimes curls (which compress the spine and pull me forward) can be a problem as well. But legs are much heavier loads, and I haven't found work-arounds for them other than only doing leg extensions and curls.

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## dec11

> I never though about doing single leg presses. It cuts the weight in half. Duh.
> 
> I started light with the squats. I am sure I was at 75% or less of max when I experimented, so you are right that they might just be out. I figured I would try them every six months to see if there is a change. That is what I did with lifting in general for six years (longer maybe) before I got back to the gym last December.
> 
> *Back injury is one extruded disk (don't remember location) and three bulging disks. The* injury presented itself as hip pain for months before my lower back started aching. Then one day I leaned backwards and it felt like my back exploded. I could barely move for months and was on 800mg of Advil several times a day. Spinal decompression therapy brought back my functionality, but I still need to be careful and still get hip pain on occasion, which lets me know I need to back off the intensity. It doesn't just happen with leg exercises. All shoulder exercises can cause discomfort but I work through it. Sometimes curls (which compress the spine and pull me forward) can be a problem as well. But legs are much heavier loads, and I haven't found work-arounds for them other than only doing leg extensions and curls.


that is a serious condition and would be out of my scope of knowledge mate. have you been given any indication as to when, if ever, you can start strengthening your back again?

when doing shoulder and bi exercises, try doing them seated and hold your abs tight and planting your feet into the floor to take any pressure off the back, if necessary lower weights and concentrate all the tension on the working muscles

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## JohnnyVegas

Yeah, my injury was pretty severe. I am afraid I will eventually need surgery, but will put it off as long as possible as they make advancements ever year. 

I have no problems with upper back exercises, and do medium weight seated rows with a stretch at the bottom so my lower back gets hit as I pull back. 

I will start to do my shoulder exercises seated. Not sure how to replace standing barbel curls since I already also do seated dumbbell curls.

I know my injury sounds awful, but I have found workarounds for most things and have been making great gains. My gains have been good enough that I can notice that my legs are lagging.

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## dec11

> Yeah, my injury was pretty severe. I am afraid I will eventually need surgery, but will put it off as long as possible as they make advancements ever year. 
> 
> I have no problems with upper back exercises, and do medium weight seated rows with a stretch at the bottom so my lower back gets hit as I pull back. 
> 
> I will start to do my shoulder exercises seated. *Not sure how to replace standing barbel curls since I already also do seated dumbbell curls.*
> 
> I know my injury sounds awful, but I have found workarounds for most things and have been making great gains. My gains have been good enough that I can notice that my legs are lagging.


these are basically the same exercise, only real diff is altering the angle with seated, so you wont be missing out.

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## ghettoboyd

awsome thread idea dec, love it...

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## Matt

I hope as many members as possible take advantage of this, great job dec...

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## spywizard

Build the perfect peak if possible..


I'm 210 `14-16% bf
advanced training, statics, compounds... 5x5, drop sets... 50 rep sets you name it...

I can cause a marginal site specific growth of the "peak" on my bi using IGF LR3, but my tri's normally give me the size that i have..

any advice..?? i know it's genetics, but ya just never know..

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## dec11

> Build the perfect peak if possible..
> 
> 
> I'm 210 `14-16% bf
> advanced training, statics, compounds... 5x5, drop sets... 50 rep sets you name it...
> 
> I can cause a marginal site specific growth of the "peak" on my bi using IGF LR3, but my tri's normally give me the size that i have..
> 
> any advice..?? i know it's genetics, but ya just never know..


tri's are always going to be the 'big' part of the arm. true, genetics/drug/oil usage have a big bearing on bi peaks. ive made progress with standing concentration curls and close grip ez curls in the 15-20rep ranges and really wring the muscle out at the top, but id suspect you've already have had tried those.
a lower bf will also accentuate peaks

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## dec11

> awsome thread idea dec, love it...





> I hope as many members as possible take advantage of this, great job dec...


no prob, will give me something productive to do while waiting on fulltime work  :7up:

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## SlimmerMe

Great idea Dec! If I hadn't asked you tons of questions already I would have tons to ask. Might come up with some more anyway since all of this is a work in progress with a learning curve.

THANKS!

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## dec11

> Great idea Dec! If I hadn't asked you tons of questions already I would have tons to ask. Might come up with some more anyway since all of this is a work in progress with a learning curve.
> 
> THANKS!


no prob slim, fire away and if can help you i certainly will

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## rockinred

Allright bro. I need a change on my routine. I am hitting one body part a day.. varies, but it can be:

Mon - arms
Tue - Legs
Wed - off
Thu -shoulders/abs
Fri- back/deads
Sat - chest
Sun - off

I am ready for a change up. i tried doing two body parts in one workout and it just didn't seem to stimulate much. Not sure if it was mindset, but the second I went back to one day a body part.. my strength and lifts went back up quick. Seems like too much to do 2 groups in one day. I can't hit as hard.

Anyhow, I need a change up. What's your thoughts? DC training? 5x5 powerlifter routine? Need some flavor.

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## dec11

> Allright bro. I need a change on my routine. I am hitting one body part a day.. varies, but it can be:
> 
> Mon - arms
> Tue - Legs
> Wed - off
> Thu -shoulders/abs
> Fri- back/deads
> Sat - chest
> Sun - off
> ...


ive never been a subscriber to DC et al tbh, KISS (keep it simple stupid) is my mantra unless training for something specific, ie; a plift meet.

i hear you on going stale from a one group 5 day split, sometimes we need less time in the gym. pairing up is usually done in a familiar format like tri's/bi's back/shoulders etc, and tbh i dont get stimulated very well off it either and particularly less with arms.

i had alot of success with this grouping on a three day split over the summer and grew very well off it:

mon back/traps/bi's (deads every 2wks)

wed legs/abs

fri chest/shoulders/tri's (your weight will be lower on shoulders but i get one hell of a pump after having done my chest)

obviously, work the big groups first

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## SlimmerMe

TRAINING 101.....

Could you list out the big groups leading to the smallest please? thanks

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## dec11

> TRAINING 101.....
> 
> Could you list out the big groups leading to the smallest please? thanks


just specifically the muscle groups or the corresponding exercises to them also?

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## SlimmerMe

For now just the muscle groups....please

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## JohnnyVegas

> awsome thread idea dec, love it...


Thanks for the insight brotha'.

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## dec11

> For now just the muscle groups....please


*legs*
glutes
quads
hams
calves

*upper body*

lats
pecs
delts
traps
abs

*arms*

tri's
bi's
singular forearm groups


thats a basic guide, to go into grouping detail detail would take all night and day and to go from the largest in the body to the smallest in correct descending order is well beyond my scope lol. the largest is glutes and smallest is one in the neck or ear iirc.

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## spywizard

true, doing a cylcle in the bi will do it.. i'm at the magical 18".. but "Look" bigger at 17" due to lower bf.. I'm 11% at 203..

the best i've found to cause any real movement in growth if stalled is to do straight sets x5 then 2 sets of drop sets in the 24 rep range..

what that does is allow for max fatigue shock to the muscle, them pumps it full at the end..

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## SlimmerMe

thanks Dec. Now I have something very specific and concrete and I know you gave me all if this before but this list is real clear .....appreciate it.

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## dec11

> thanks Dec. Now I have something very specific and concrete and I know you gave me all if this before but this list is real clear .....appreciate it.


no prob

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## Blaz Kavlic

Great thread Dec. I'm looking for some more exercises to build traps and mix it up a lil'. I'm currently doing upright barbell rows, dbell shrugs, and seated vertical dbell presses. Any other affective suggestions? Also which day would you recommend is best to train traps - back day or shoulders day?

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## CertifiedOne

What's the best chest workout? I've been doing the following once a week with not much result:

Incline Dumbell Press: 3x15
Dumbell Flyes: 3x15
Flat Barbell Benchpress: 3x15

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## dec11

> Great thread Dec. I'm looking for some more exercises to build traps and mix it up a lil'. I'm currently doing upright barbell rows, dbell shrugs, and seated vertical dbell presses. Any other affective suggestions? Also which day would you recommend is best to train traps - back day or shoulders day?


ah, one of my favourite muscle groups! my traps are something i always get comments about and ppl ask me what i do for them, alot.

they are and you may be surprised at: 3x12 maximal heavy shrugs, that is all the direct work i do for them these days and have done for the past 4yrs, and its straight up and down with no rotation, slow and strict form with a pause at the top of the movement. some may argue, but deadlifts will play a part in building thick strong traps also. i've always trained traps on back days.

try this for 6wks or so and see if you get results, some muscle groups dont respond to alot of volume and you may be hitting them with too much.

good luck, and let me know how you get on with this, the feedback could help others mate.

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## dec11

> What's the best chest workout? I've been doing the following once a week with not much result:
> 
> Incline Dumbell Press: 3x15
> Dumbell Flyes: 3x15
> Flat Barbell Benchpress: 3x15


 you want to be really feeling the last 3 reps on the 1st two exercises, but with good form. and rem you're diet is the key to growth mate, the weights are the easy part  :Smilie: 

incline dbell press 3x10 (warm up with afew light gradual sets before hand)
decline dbell press 3x10 (straight into working sets)
dbell flyes 3x15 (do not go heavy on these, just enough to feel a pump on the last 5 reps)

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## JohnnyVegas

Just an update: did quads last night with some success. Did leg extensions (never a problem) and switched to one-legged presses WITH VERY LITTLE BACK DISCOMFORT. Good to go. Next week I will add the front squats and see how it goes.

Thanks.

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## dec11

> Just an update: did quads last night with some success. Did leg extensions (never a problem) and switched to one-legged presses WITH VERY LITTLE BACK DISCOMFORT. Good to go. Next week I will add the front squats and see how it goes.
> 
> Thanks.


yeah, one legged presses are def easier on the back. good job and keep me posted

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## DanB

critique leg workout please

squat ( heavy low reps ) alot of warm up sets 10 reps increase weight then 8 increase weight etc then 2 or 3 sets of heavy low reps
front squat ( moderately heavy 8 - 10 reps ) 3 sets
leg press or hack squat machine ( moderately heavy 8 - 10 reps ) 3 sets
leg extension or lunge ( moderately heavy 8 - 10 reps ) 3 working sets
hamstring curl machine ( medium weight 10 - 12 reps ) 3 working sets
single leg standing calf raises ( medium weight 10 - 12 reps ) 4 sets
calf raise machine (heavy lows reps to failure ) 2 sets

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## DanB

also deads are not forgotten they done with back

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## testchef

hey dec ive been training now for about 6 months with the same routine
i usually do 10,8,fail routine with weight getting heavier if im having a good day il throw in another set to fail. always trying to lift as big as possible while keeping technique correct and like to hit hard and not fook bout in and out

mon 
chest abbs
declined bb press 
inclined db press
flat flys
leg raises
declined crunches

tues
biceps
bb preacher curl
bb 21S * 3 sets
one arm cable curl
standing db curl

wed
shoulders abbs
db shoulder press
upright row close grip and wide grip
not sure name but on cable machine side way lifts 3 sets cable across belly 3 sets cable across back
bb shoulder press
leg raises and declined crunches

thurs tri
tricep cable dip
backwards extensions
over head tri cable extensions

friday back 
dead lifts
one arm upright rows
seating wide grip rows
lat pull down wide grip
lat pull close grip


not doing legs at the moment due to tendon damage in my knees strugling alittle with dead lifts but i do them stiff legged
now ive always heard you should mix up ur routine but its worked pretty well for me up until now
what could i change and why would it be benificial

thanks alot

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## dec11

> critique leg workout please
> 
> squat ( heavy low reps ) alot of warm up sets 10 reps increase weight then 8 increase weight etc then 2 or 3 sets of heavy low reps
> front squat ( moderately heavy 8 - 10 reps ) 3 sets
> leg press or hack squat machine ( moderately heavy 8 - 10 reps ) 3 sets
> leg extension or lunge ( moderately heavy 8 - 10 reps ) 3 working sets
> hamstring curl machine ( medium weight 10 - 12 reps ) 3 working sets
> single leg standing calf raises ( medium weight 10 - 12 reps ) 4 sets
> calf raise machine (heavy lows reps to failure ) 2 sets


alternate front squats with conventional week by week

do the leg press heavy as you can go for those 3 sets

no need for seated and standing calves, alternate like squats above


if you want size and strength put your low reps into either leg press or squat and your higher reps into the other and change it around every month or so.

you were doing a tad too much for my liking in the one leg session but alternating those which ive mentioned will whittle it down a bit for you

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## dec11

> also deads are not forgotten they done with back


always hit these hard and heavy and only every 2wks

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## dec11

> hey dec ive been training now for about 6 months with the same routine
> i usually do 10,8,fail routine with weight getting heavier if im having a good day il throw in another set to fail. always trying to lift as big as possible while keeping technique correct and like to hit hard and not fook bout in and out
> 
> mon 
> chest abbs
> declined bb press 
> inclined db press
> flat flys
> leg raises
> ...


if you've been doing this consistently for this period of time then first thing in order would be a week off, then come back with this for 6wks and then back to your original prog. only two sets for small assistant groups, and warm up to three working sets for the compound groups:

*mon* incline dbell press
decline dbell press
shoulder press
tri extension
lateral and front shoulder raises (superset)
tri single hand extensions (2 sets overhand, 2 sets underhand)

*wed*  abs (3 different exercise to cover all angles, your choice)

*fri* lat pulldown
low row
standing dbell curls
trap shrugs (up and down movement, no rotation)
stiff leg deads
standing concentration curls
dbell hammer curls


i trained not dissimilar to your original prog and also cant do legs at the moment due to breaking toes. i implicated this prog around 7 weeks ago and im growing nicely off it whilst allowing more recovery time. 
listen to your body, it is most likely telling you it needs a break at the moment, come back after a week and shock it with the diff prog then another week off and back to original and so on. 
another tip is to gauge how you feel by session by session, if feeling good hit it hard, if not then go light or skip that session altogether. ive never ever followed a note book, always by how i feel on the day. good luck

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## DanB

thanks I thought it might of been a bit much and now i have confirmation a friend(polish) put me on it a few months ago got some good gains but its seriously hard work to finish. why deads every 2?because they work so many muscles or?ive been doing 6 - 8 reps 4 sets on deads do you think then id be better going max weight 3 - 4 reps every other week? if so would i increase or decrease sets also?

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## DanB

also would you alternate leg press with hack squat or just stick to leg press?

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## dec11

> thanks I thought it might of been a bit much and now i have confirmation a friend(polish) put me on it a few months ago got some good gains but its seriously hard work to finish. why deads every 2?because they work so many muscles or?ive been doing 6 - 8 reps 4 sets on deads do you think then id be better going max weight 3 - 4 reps every other week? if so would i increase or decrease sets also?


yes, deads are a big draining exercise plus your legs get torched every week, doing heavy deads every week will lead to burn out in no time. to put it in context, ive come back after up to 3mths not deading and been up at my max with 2wks, simple reason being that all other associated lifts keep it there or there abouts.

pyramid your deads, mine looked like this over the summer (pre toe breaking  :Frown: ) 

10 60kg
8 100
6 140
4 160
2 180
4 200
4 220
2 240
2 250




> also would you alternate leg press with hack squat or just stick to leg press?


in all honesty, id junk the hack squat, ive seen more guys wreck their knees on this lift than any else, i personally cant do them without feeling my caps are going shoot off.

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## testchef

> if you've been doing this consistently for this period of time then first thing in order would be a week off, then come back with this for 6wks and then back to your original prog. only two sets for small assistant groups, and warm up to three working sets for the compound groups:
> 
> *mon* incline dbell press
> decline dbell press
> shoulder press
> tri extension
> lateral and front shoulder raises (superset)
> tri single hand extensions (2 sets overhand, 2 sets underhand)
> 
> ...


thanks for the quick response
if im on cycle now and i take a week off would i be wasting valuable time ?
also the 6 week plan youve set out would that be big and heavy still lifting till fail ?
in all honesty i feel completly nackered some days achy stiff but still notice myself getting stronger so always carry on
do u think im overtraining ?

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## dec11

> thanks for the quick response
> if im on cycle now and i take a week off would i be wasting valuable time ?* not at all, and can be the opposite and give you a big spurt of growth*
> also the 6 week plan youve set out would that be big and heavy still lifting till fail ?*i go all out on the compounds and ensure im always feeling the last few reps on the assistant stuff*
> in all honesty i feel completly nackered some days achy stiff but still notice myself getting stronger so always carry on *achey stiff = not good, and poss injury looming*
> do u think im overtraining ? *yes mate, i do*


bolds mate

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## DanB

thanks mate will give it a go much appreciated

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## DanB

but will take a while before my deads pyramid is looking like that lol

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## Blaz Kavlic

> ah, one of my favourite muscle groups! my traps are something i always get comments about and ppl ask me what i do for them, alot.
> 
> they are and you may be surprised at: 3x12 maximal heavy shrugs, that is all the direct work i do for them these days and have done for the past 4yrs, and its straight up and down with no rotation, slow and strict form with a pause at the top of the movement. some may argue, but deadlifts will play a part in building thick strong traps also. i've always trained traps on back days.
> 
> try this for 6wks or so and see if you get results, some muscle groups dont respond to alot of volume and you may be hitting them with too much.
> 
> good luck, and let me know how you get on with this, the feedback could help others mate.


Legendary Dec. I'll up the weight as far as I can go when doing shrugs. Thanks for the advice and i'll keep you posted on how I go.

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## t-gunz

honestly dec this a epic thread. 

well done

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## testchef

thanks dec alot nice thread il be back here in a few weeks tell u how im feeling

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## dec11

> thanks dec alot nice thread il be back here in a few weeks tell u how im feeling


no prob, have a week off, maintain your diet and you'll come back refreshed and better than ever, trust me  :Wink:

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## dec11

> Legendary Dec. I'll up the weight as far as I can go when doing shrugs. Thanks for the advice and i'll keep you posted on how I go.


nice one mate




> honestly dec this a epic thread. 
> 
> well done


cheers gunz, thanks for the feedback mate

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## dec11

> but will take a while before my deads pyramid is looking like that lol


keep pegging away at it mate, i was once 11st and deading 160kg 1rm

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## The Bear 79

OK, for a couple months now, I just cant seem 2 mak my upper chest sore anymor. Not with barbell or isolated movment (30* press) I'm very well developed in that area, but in my mind, if the muscle isnt sore, then I didn't work it hard enuf or the rite way.

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## dec11

> OK, for a couple months now, I just cant seem 2 mak my upper chest sore anymor. Not with barbell or isolated movment (30* press) I'm very well developed in that area, but in my mind, if the muscle isnt sore, then I didn't work it hard enuf or the rite way.


try pre-exhaustion methods with pec deck or flyes etc. another thing ive noticed is that time off helps bring back 'the feeling', you dont necessarily have to take a full week off, just miss a muscle group per week

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## The Bear 79

> try pre-exhaustion methods with pec deck or flyes etc. another thing ive noticed is that time off helps bring back 'the feeling', you dont necessarily have to take a full week off, just miss a muscle group per week


 Yeah I've been thinkin bout some time off, I'll giv that a try 1st.

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## gearbox

I have trouble hitting my bi hard. I am never sore the next day at all. I tried seated db curls. Then preacher then straight and started cables where your pulling from both side of you into bi flecking. Using those huge cable tower. I feel decent/good when wking out.

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## dec11

> I have trouble hitting my bi hard. I am never sore the next day at all. I tried seated db curls. Then preacher then straight and started cables where your pulling from both side of you into bi flecking. Using those huge cable tower. I feel decent/good when wking out.


try doing them on back day

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## jimmyinkedup

Hey Dec - Great thread. Thanks for starting it.
I have a question for you. I am injured right now so not doing lower body but when I return I have been considering the following. I really never established an all compound movement "base" if u will. I have, over the years, on and off incorporated things like deads and so on into my workouts - of course squats have been a staple and so on. I have made great porogress but have often thought maybe I robbed myself somewhat not starting off with this type of base. Do you think when im 100% it would be worth it too "start over" so to speak and utilize this type of workout? Also do you think the "step basck" in some ways as far as adapting to workout before maximizing weight would ultimately pay off enough to make it worth it? IF so - How about showing an example of a sample workout if its not too much trouble. If u have done this for someone here in the past a link would be great. Thanks Dec!

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## dec11

> Hey Dec - Great thread. Thanks for starting it.
> I have a question for you. I am injured right now so not doing lower body but when I return I have been considering the following. I really never established an all compound movement "base" if u will. I have, over the years, on and off incorporated things like deads and so on into my workouts - of course squats have been a staple and so on. I have made great porogress but have often thought maybe I robbed myself somewhat not starting off with this type of base. Do you think when im 100% it would be worth it too "start over" so to speak and utilize this type of workout? Also do you think the "step basck" in some ways as far as adapting to workout before maximizing weight would ultimately pay off enough to make it worth it? IF so - How about showing an example of a sample workout if its not too much trouble. If u have done this for someone here in the past a link would be great. Thanks Dec!


i wouldnt call it a 'step back' mate. ive went back to scratch many times, after plift comps and after injury etc.

you'll know the exercises yourself mate,

squats
deads
bench press
shoulder press

you could work a three day split and throw in 2-3 assistant exercises.

or you could do a squat, bench and deadlift routine at the start of the week and do assistants at the end of the week in push pull format. 

gradually work your way up the weight on the compounds according to what your goal is. i personally mainly worked on a pyramid in my plifting days and it built me a solid strong base

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## t-gunz

dec looking at doing a GVT split done one before. will be still leaning out with it. with short breaks 

what you think of 4 day split.

mon-chest 
tues-back 
wed-off
thurs-legs abs
friday= arms

all temps 4-0-2-0

*chest-* 
flat DB press 10 x 10
30 incl fly 10 x 10

*back* 
lat pull down 10 x 10
low cable rows v handle 10 x 10

*thursday*
squats 10 x 10 ( thinking this will tax me more than enough
calf raise 10 x 10
decline sit up 10 x 10

*friday-*
dips 10 x 10
standing BB curl 10 x 10

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## JimmySidewalk

What exercise should i do in order to make the two muscles paralel to the spine pop out ? My superior part of traps is well developed, and so is the lower back, but when it comes to the middle-upper part of the back close to the spine it looks too thin.

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## dec11

> dec looking at doing a GVT split done one before. will be still leaning out with it. with short breaks 
> 
> what you think of 4 day split.
> 
> mon-chest 
> tues-back 
> wed-off
> thurs-legs abs
> friday= arms
> ...


looks good to me, agree on the squats, KILLER!!! lol

----------


## dec11

> What exercise should i do in order to make the two muscles paralel to the spine pop out ? My superior part of traps is well developed, and so is the lower back, but when it comes to the middle-upper part of the back close to the spine it looks too thin.


close grip rows and deadlifts. squeeze the area on completion of each row rep with a momentary pause. make sure you rotate your shoulders back on finishing off deads

----------


## t-gunz

> looks good to me, agree on the squats, KILLER!!! lol


lol 

thanks for taking time to comment

----------


## JimmySidewalk

Thanks dec !

----------


## black6

Pull-overs, are they more back or chest? Started doing them b/c they are said to widen your chest frame. Feel like lats to me but IDK. Thanks

----------


## "Maximus"

dec, thanks for the tip man; will definitely try it, as my calves are my kriptonite. Max

----------


## "Maximus"

> Pull-overs, are they more back or chest? Started doing them b/c they are said to widen your chest frame. Feel like lats to me but IDK. Thanks


Interjecting here briefly for dec, they target directly the muscles in the chest area but also do work the lats muscles (and other minor ones) indirectly.

----------


## dec11

> Pull-overs, are they more back or chest? Started doing them b/c *they are said to widen your chest frame*. Feel like lats to me but IDK. Thanks


thats a myth mate, nothing will alter your bone structure. its a chest exercise but lats help to stabilise, hence the feeling in them whilst performing the exercise

----------


## Dr Pepper

Hey mate just wondering your views on upright flys or standing whatever u want to call it. Better bent I've on a 45 or standing straight up?

----------


## dec11

> Hey mate just wondering your views on upright flys or standing whatever u want to call it. Better bent I've on a 45 or standing straight up?


ive never seen the point in that exercise tbh (assuming you mean with dbells), the weight load is on the delts and pulling gravity down if done standing up. go for the same angle you perform incline benchpress and ALWAYS light to medium weight and high reps, this is one exercise that can play havoc with rotators if done sloppy.

----------


## Dr Pepper

Whats your opinion on yoga classes, Beneficial to the training of a body builder?

----------


## dec11

> Whats your opinion on yoga classes, Beneficial to the training of a body builder?


ive never done yoga, but the stretching would definitely be of benefit plus getting the knack of isolating and 'feeling' diff muscle groups would be beneficial.

----------


## Blaz Kavlic

> ah, one of my favourite muscle groups! my traps are something i always get comments about and ppl ask me what i do for them, alot.
> 
> they are and you may be surprised at: 3x12 maximal heavy shrugs, that is all the direct work i do for them these days and have done for the past 4yrs, and its straight up and down with no rotation, slow and strict form with a pause at the top of the movement. some may argue, but deadlifts will play a part in building thick strong traps also. i've always trained traps on back days.
> 
> try this for 6wks or so and see if you get results, some muscle groups dont respond to alot of volume and you may be hitting them with too much.
> 
> good luck, and let me know how you get on with this, the feedback could help others mate.


Hey Dec, I gave my traps a right nailin' today doing shrugs only and farrrrkkk. Sore tonight bro! Fuggin' awesome workout. My form is good and I can really feel the traps working. Cant wait for next week.

----------


## dec11

> Hey Dec, I gave my traps a right nailin' today doing shrugs only and farrrrkkk. Sore tonight bro! Fuggin' awesome workout. My form is good and I can really feel the traps working. Cant wait for next week.


good to hear.

----------


## Dr Pepper

Hey mate. Been dieting to cut thanks to the diet forum and am having great success. I have the middle four abs showing and the top two just starting to come through. Only problem is that the top two are not as thick as the next four. Not sure if it's a stupid question. But is there any exercise to isolate those top to abs or any particular exercise that brings them out?

----------


## dec11

> Hey mate. Been dieting to cut thanks to the diet forum and am having great success. I have the middle four abs showing and the top two just starting to come through. Only problem is that the top two are not as thick as the next four. Not sure if it's a stupid question. But is there any exercise to isolate those top to abs or any particular exercise that brings them out?


as body fat lowers they will become more visible. if you want big abs then you need to train them weighted for reps of 12-15. ive gotten best results from the following:

cable mach. woodchops- chopping from pulley at head height, waist height and finally from ankle height- 1 set at each setting on each side

dbell/plate side bends 3sets each side

abs table mach- hits lower and upper 4 sets




that routine really brought mine out. deads will also develop them to a certain degree

----------


## dtob

> Have a lagging body part?
> 
> Unsure how to set up a programme?
> 
> Or just plain clueless about the whole thing?
> 
> Post your Q's up and i'll have you on your way to glory in no time!! 
> 
> (Purely for exercise only, no AAS q's please).
> ...


Hiya Dec and thanks for doing this
Ok i gotta ? About my left inner calve to mind connection my right one is strong and developing nicely but the left inner calve is lagging, i am right leg dominant so my left leg in general is behind
However i have started working the left leg from top to botttom all by its self on its own day (off day/cardio) day 
And i was wondering if you had any advice. Specific to contracting the inner calve any advise is apreciated

----------


## dec11

> Hiya Dec and thanks for doing this
> Ok i gotta ? About my left inner calve to mind connection my right one is strong and developing nicely but the left inner calve is lagging, i am right leg dominant so my left leg in general is behind
> However i have started working the left leg from top to botttom all by its self on its own day (off day/cardio) day 
> And i was wondering if you had any advice. Specific to contracting the inner calve any advise is apreciated


train your squat normally, then do single leg on the leg press and assistant exercises (calve raises, leg extensions etc). i personally wouldnt devote a training day to one limb, lagging parts almost always come up to speed over time, unless a trauma has been experienced or there is a underlying physical condition. have you tried slight angle alterations while performing the calve exercise?

somantic motor neurons are your mind to muscle connection and are much to complicated for me to delve into mate, possibly speak to a doctor about running tests? but i will point out that there can be natural imbalances on opposing limbs. i would have sworn my left side was generally weaker than my right when i started out, all is even now.

----------


## dtob

> train your squat normally, then do single leg on the leg press and assistant exercises (calve raises, leg extensions etc). i personally wouldnt devote a training day to one limb, lagging parts almost always come up to speed over time, unless a trauma has been experienced or there is a underlying physical condition. have you tried slight angle alterations while performing the calve exercise?
> 
> somantic motor neurons are your mind to muscle connection and are much to complicated for me to delve into mate, possibly speak to a doctor about running tests? but i will point out that there can be natural imbalances on opposing limbs. i would have sworn my left side was generally weaker than my right when i started out, all is even now.


Thanks for the info 
Ive been trying to change footing but its hard to feel i think im going to devote 10 min/workout to my left calve for awhile until it smartens up 
Thanks again

----------


## bavz01

Hi dec the problem I have at the mo is everything on the right side of my body is bigger than my left side, bigger bicep, considerably bigger lat, and bigger leg!! How could I even this out or will it happen naturally??? 
Cheers pal

----------


## dec11

> Hi dec the problem I have at the mo is everything on the right side of my body is bigger than my left side, bigger bicep, considerably bigger lat, and bigger leg!! How could I even this out or will it happen naturally??? 
> Cheers pal


ive had imbalances which evened out as time went on. 

how long have you been training and are the imbalances really noticeable?

----------


## stpete

Great idea on starting this thread dec! Solid advice too!

----------


## bavz01

> ive had imbalances which evened out as time went on.
> 
> how long have you been training and are the imbalances really noticeable?


Been training for 6 years on and off, been back in to hard for the past 6 months. They are proper noticeable not so much me leg but arm and lat are the worse. Maybe it's my Job I'm a floor layer and
I'm right handed the type of flooring
I do takes a lot of strength to cut the stuff???
Cheers for the reply

----------


## dec11

> Been training for 6 years on and off, been back in to hard for the past 6 months. They are proper noticeable not so much me leg but arm and lat are the worse. Maybe it's my Job I'm a floor layer and
> I'm right handed the type of flooring
> I do takes a lot of strength to cut the stuff???
> Cheers for the reply


your job could indeed be a factor, im sure many roofers would agree!

its hard for me to advise on this one, i havent ever advised someone to work more on one side of the body than the other, ive just never encountered it. it would be hard to make sure each side was getting evenly stressed between work and gym. i could suggest, but id only be going on what i think rather than what i know mate.

is there anyway you could start using the other side at work, or is that not practical at all?

----------


## dec11

> Great idea on starting this thread dec! Solid advice too!


cheers mate, its good to get ppl on the right track if they are unsure or just plain intimidated by it all

----------


## bavz01

> your job could indeed be a factor, im sure many roofers would agree!
> 
> its hard for me to advise on this one, i havent ever advised someone to work more on one side of the body than the other, ive just never encountered it. it would be hard to make sure each side was getting evenly stressed between work and gym. i could suggest, but id only be going on what i think rather than what i know mate.
> 
> is there anyway you could start using the other side at work, or is that not practical at all?


Yer not very good with me left hand could see a lot of accidents and a lot of floor cut short lol. I'll just see if they even out over time 
Cheers again

----------


## dec11

posted up afew days ago, by Juice Authority. 

a great find and useful to those of you who are unsure of execution:

http://everkinetic.com/exercises

----------


## ThatAthlete82

> posted up afew days ago, by Juice Authority. 
> 
> a great find and useful to those of you who are unsure of execution:
> 
> http://everkinetic.com/exercises


What are some good informational websites you visit about BB/nutrition?

----------


## dec11

> What are some good informational websites you visit about BB/nutrition?


this one

----------


## ThatAthlete82

How much of your protein intake should be from complete proteins? Is the science in on our required amount of essential BCAA's(mg)?

Furthermore, are the essential BCAA's important PW?

----------


## dec11

> How much of your protein intake should be from complete proteins? Is the science in on our required amount of essential BCAA's(mg)?
> 
> Furthermore, are the essential BCAA's important PW?


this thread is about exercise mate, not nutrition.

----------


## DanB

im starting dropsets for my chest tomorrow, for convience and speed im thinking first 10 dumbell and to make for a quick change second 10 barbell to make 1 set or vica versa. can you see swapping between dumbell/barbell being a problem? :Hmmmm:

----------


## DanB

im thinking it be fine but then again ive little experience in dropsets

----------


## dec11

> im starting dropsets for my chest tomorrow, for convience and speed im thinking first 10 dumbell and to make for a quick change second 10 barbell to make 1 set or vica versa. can you see swapping between dumbell/barbell being a problem?


personally i'd just stick to dbells period for chest pressing.

----------


## DanB

k thanks i prefer them myself but i have no patience when it comes to waiting for some1 to finish with them

----------


## -KJ-

Hi Dec!
Can you give me your input please?
I train Tuesday and Thursday for soccer with a game Sunday..
So i train Mon, wed and Friday giving sat off before game!

Was thinkin thi
Mon - back traps bis
wed - chest shoulders tris
Fri - legs abs

Have legs Friday cause gives day off before training or game.

What you [email protected] any exercises i should or shouldn't be doing...

Thanks

----------


## dec11

> Hi Dec!
> Can you give me your input please?
> I train Tuesday and Thursday for soccer with a game Sunday..
> So i train Mon, wed and Friday giving sat off before game!
> 
> Was thinkin thi
> Mon - back traps bis
> wed - chest shoulders tris
> Fri - legs abs
> ...


what are your goals mate? how serious is the football?

----------


## -KJ-

Goals is cutting.. Need to drop a few and become quicker.
Also want to look bigger and get stronger.
I won't turn pro but a high standard at amateur level.

----------


## -KJ-

Goals is cutting.. Need to drop a few and become quicker.
Also want to look bigger and get stronger.
I won't turn pro but a high standard at amateur level.

----------


## dec11

> Goals is cutting.. Need to drop a few and become quicker.
> Also want to look bigger and get stronger.
> I won't turn pro but a high standard at amateur level.


you'll find it hard getting bigger if you are at that good a standard mate, you may also find the lifting associated with hypertrophy would infringe on your football

----------


## -KJ-

True. I guess i just want both! Im still at a high body fat though and am lookin to cut 
anything you can recommend Dec

----------


## -KJ-

True. I guess i just want both! Im still at a high body fat though and am lookin to cut 
anything you can recommend Dec

----------


## dec11

> True. I guess i just want both! Im still at a high body fat though and am lookin to cut 
> anything you can recommend Dec


if you are playing football x3 pw and not losing the bf then you'd best post up your typical diet in the nutrition section mate.
weights wise i would concentrate on endurance circuit type weight training to complement the football, 15-20reps med to difficult level. i wouldnt hit legs alot tbh, you be getting a load of stop start sprint training within the football

----------


## evander87

2 questions. First is more of a gym bet than anything. Which exercise works the most muscles, close grip lat pull down or seated row? 


More serious question. Wondering about rest times for legs. I kill them on a wednesday do cardio on tuesday, thursday and sunday by running on a treadmill. I'd like to lift legs again on Saturday. But I'm wondering since I'm doing cardio if I might run the chance of overtraining the legs? Would I get better gains if i did one leg lift day every 7days and keep the cardio three times a week?

----------


## dec11

> 2 questions. First is more of a gym bet than anything. Which exercise works the most muscles, close grip lat pull down or seated row? *depends at what angle you do the pulldowns, typically if you lie back more you're bringing rhomboids and rear delts more into play. both exercises use the same muscle groups to different extents.*
> 
> 
> More serious question. Wondering about rest times for legs. I kill them on a wednesday do cardio on tuesday, thursday and sunday by running on a treadmill. I'd like to lift legs again on Saturday. But I'm wondering since I'm doing cardio if I might run the chance of overtraining the legs? Would I get better gains if i did one leg lift day every 7days and keep the cardio three times a week?


*the cardio work wont interfere much with the weight work. i would absolutely murder my legs once per week, rest day the following and then into the cardio again.*

----------


## evander87

> *the cardio work wont interfere much with the weight work. i would absolutely murder my legs once per week, rest day the following and then into the cardio again.*


Awesome man. Thank you.

----------


## charcold

Ive never done front squats, I plan on doing them early this week. Any advice? I've watched several youtube videos of them and feel pretty comfortable going into them. I figure start low and go slow, weight wise.

----------


## dec11

> Ive never done front squats, I plan on doing them early this week. Any advice? I've watched several youtube videos of them and feel pretty comfortable going into them.* I figure start low and go slow, weight wise.*


you have it nailed mate, it can feel quite strange as the weight load is quite a different sensation. not an exercise ive ever used much, prob only a handful of times in my life due to injuries preventing me doing back squats.

----------


## M302_Imola

> if you are playing football x3 pw and not losing the bf then you'd best post up your typical diet in the nutrition section mate.
> weights wise i would concentrate on endurance circuit type weight training to complement the football, 15-20reps med to difficult level. i wouldnt hit legs alot tbh, you be getting a load of stop start sprint training within the football


got to agree w/ dec11 on this one. Honestly your diet must be garbage if you're not losing bodyfat w/ as much soccer and lifting you're doing. This being said I have played soccer ever since I was 6 yrs. old and have played at the college level. When I was in college (6 yrs. ago) I weighed 170 lbs. soaking weight while in soccer season...I'm now 30-35 lbs. heavier and just as lean if not leaner (I haven't played competitive soccer in a few years now). It is really tough to accumulate a descent amount of muscle mass when you're training a lot for soccer. On the flip side, it should be relatively easy to lose bodyfat. You def. need to visit the nutrition forum. My advice is to cut fat while in season and then try to lean bulk in the off season. Note: your calorie expenditure is going to be off the charts with as much training/games while in season.

----------


## dec11

> got to agree w/ dec11 on this one. Honestly your diet must be garbage if you're not losing bodyfat w/ as much soccer and lifting you're doing. This being said I have played soccer ever since I was 6 yrs. old and have played at the college level. When I was in college (6 yrs. ago) I weighed 170 lbs. soaking weight while in soccer season...I'm now 30-35 lbs. heavier and just as lean if not leaner (I haven't played competitive soccer in a few years now). It is really tough to accumulate a descent amount of muscle mass when you're training a lot for soccer. On the flip side, it should be relatively easy to lose bodyfat. You def. need to visit the nutrition forum. My advice is to cut fat while in season and then try to lean bulk in the off season. Note: your calorie expenditure is going to be off the charts with as much training/games while in season.


there ya go KJ, some direct first hand experience. you cant ask for better than this mate ^^^^^

----------


## dec11

bump

dont let the thread die lads

----------


## gearbox

dec 11- I noticed today during decline bench that if I bring my arms in about 4 inches I felt it more on my chest (or it seemed that way) I was doing the stardard width I do on flat or incline....Was it in my head?

----------


## dec11

> dec 11- I noticed today during decline bench that if I bring my arms in about 4 inches I felt it more on my chest (or it seemed that way) I was doing the stardard width I do on flat or incline....Was it in my head?


bringing your arms in will focus more on triceps and at the end of the movement you'd get a squeeze on the inner portion of the pecs along the sternum

----------


## DanB

im starting to bulk in janunary 6 month min, and wondering how i go about cardio during this. I want to keep b/f somewhat in check, i know it will increase a bit but i dont want to pile on the fat ive been killing meself to lose and also would like to keep at least a half decent standard of fitness so my question's are. . .im thinking simply,after weights a half hr on threadmill at 12kph 4x week which burns an indicated 500 odd cals would suffice? but what would you recommend? and how do i go about increasing calorie intake?do i simply add back on what i intend to burn on threadmill or just leave it? im still working out specifics of diet but it will be 1000cals over tdee. . .so on training only days thats 3700, still to calculate what ill need on work and training days mabey 4500 as a guess

----------


## dec11

> im starting to bulk in janunary 6 month min, and wondering how i go about cardio during this. I want to keep b/f somewhat in check, i know it will increase a bit but i dont want to pile on the fat ive been killing meself to lose and also would like to keep at least a half decent standard of fitness so my question's are. . .im thinking simply,after weights a half hr on threadmill at 12kph 4x week which burns an indicated 500 odd cals would suffice? but what would you recommend? and how do i go about increasing calorie intake?do i simply add back on what i intend to burn on threadmill or just leave it? im still working out specifics of diet but it will be 1000cals over tdee. . .so on training only days thats 3700, still to calculate what ill need on work and training days mabey 4500 as a guess


controlling bf on a bulk is a trial and error process imho, you need to have afew runs at it to find out what works for you. i wouldnt take alot of notice of 'machine cals' either mate.

are you intending bulking for 6mths? that would be hard to do continuously, unless ive misunderstood you?

ive always felt that bulks and cuts should def be treated as sep issues, sure keep youself inline whilst bulking but dont worry too much about the inevitable small amount of fat gain and deal with that later

and although i said no AAS talk here, are you doing this natty or enhanced? if enhanced, that will help seriously with controlling bf without losing muscle on cardios

----------


## DanB

yeah tbh i have no idea how many cals im actually burning just thought that might give you a rough idea so you think i should be good with a moderate amount of cardio and just deal with whatever fat i put on afterwards?, and yeah plan is 6 months natural then 3month cut and then an ''enhanced'' bulk but i dont think im ready or even need ''enhan***ents'' yet hence the natty approach at minute. . .in saying that i havent bulked for 6 months before so i dont know what hurdles im going to face, can u see it becoming a problem?

----------


## dec11

> yeah tbh i have no idea how many cals im actually burning just thought that might give you a rough idea so you think i should be good with a moderate amount of cardio and just deal with whatever fat i put on afterwards?, and yeah plan is 6 months natural then 3month cut and then an ''enhanced'' bulk but i dont think im ready or even need ''enhan***ents'' yet hence the natty approach at minute. . .in saying that i havent bulked for 6 months before so i dont know what hurdles im going to face, can u see it becoming a problem?


i would go with a medium to mid high heart rate for 40mins after training, you could take afew aminos just beforehand.

6mths continuous bulk is a tall order mate, you will want to periodise that, ie; 6wks of hitting it hard and heavy, 2wks medium, one week off and repeat. otherwise you'd go stale before long

----------


## t-gunz

dec 

can you tell me what you think on forearm training? 

i never did it thought it seemed gay. assumed deadlifts etc would suffice 

but can you tell me if it can help with growth etc.

cheers mate

----------


## dec11

> dec 
> 
> can you tell me what you think on forearm training? 
> 
> i never did it thought it seemed gay. assumed deadlifts etc would suffice 
> 
> but can you tell me if it can help with growth etc.
> 
> cheers mate


ive never directly trained them mate tbh, deads will def strengthen them, not so sure about them optimally giving forearms size though as its a static hold rather than a flex

----------


## t-gunz

> ive never directly trained them mate tbh, deads will def strengthen them, not so sure about them optimally giving forearms size though as its a static hold rather than a flex


thanks dec. i think i might give it a try see if it makes a difference or not

----------


## gearbox

> bringing your arms in will focus more on triceps and at the end of the movement you'd get a squeeze on the inner portion of the pecs along the sternum


Thanks dec. I will probably switch it up on how wide my grip is. 

What's ur bicep routine or do u have certain must do exercises for them...

----------


## DanB

> i would go with a medium to mid high heart rate for 40mins after training, you could take afew aminos just beforehand.
> 
> 6mths continuous bulk is a tall order mate, you will want to periodise that, ie; 6wks of hitting it hard and heavy, 2wks medium, one week off and repeat. otherwise you'd go stale before long


Thanks mate, i take it im keeping cals the same during medium weeks, week off

----------


## dec11

> Thanks dec. I will probably switch it up on how wide my grip is. 
> 
> What's ur bicep routine or do u have certain must do exercises for them...


standard dbell curl, standing concentration curl and switch between hammers with preachers each week. i only use dbells for biceps

----------


## dec11

> Thanks mate, i take it im keeping cals the same during medium weeks, week off


yes, but you could ease off the carbs at this point. your body will get a chance to fully recover esp during the week off, so keep it fed

----------


## DanB

there's nothing like free advice from somebody who knows what they talking about and genuinely wants to help. . . .thanks mate much appreciated

----------


## gearbox

i agree...dec is freaking awesome as are many members on here!

----------


## dec11

> there's nothing like free advice from somebody who knows what they talking about and genuinely wants to help. . . .thanks mate much appreciated





> i agree...dec is freaking awesome as are many members on here!


you're welcome lads  :Wink:

----------


## M302_Imola

> dec 
> 
> can you tell me what you think on forearm training? 
> 
> i never did it thought it seemed gay. assumed deadlifts etc would suffice 
> 
> but can you tell me if it can help with growth etc.
> 
> cheers mate


Do you use straps on your heavier lifts? If so, try only using straps when absolutely necessary or not at all...this will contribute to larger forearms and better grip.

----------


## dec11

> Do you use straps on your heavier lifts? If so, try only using straps when absolutely necessary or not at all...this will contribute to larger forearms and better grip.


yep, no straps, if developing forearms. strap your other back exercises if completely necessary, ive never used straps/hooks on deads, my torso would rip off before my grip would give!

----------


## RaginCajun

dec11, i am rehabbing my shoulder/rotator cuff and want to do deads on a smith machine (only equipment that i have around). how do you think i should go about technique on the smith machine with deads? i hate smith machines, but it is all i have at the moment to perform any heavy weighted exercise on. thanks

----------


## dec11

> dec11, i am rehabbing my shoulder/rotator cuff and want to do deads on a smith machine (only equipment that i have around). how do you think i should go about technique on the smith machine with deads? i hate smith machines, but it is all i have at the moment to perform any heavy weighted exercise on. thanks


ive a rotator complaint also and deads are one of the few lifts that arent affecting it badly mate. have you tried free bar deads yet?

to be perfectly honest, i would advise anyone to dead with a smith machine and i reckon the unnatural plain of movement would trouble your rotator more. try building up gradually with the free bar, if you haven't already. i managed a double out of 255kgs last week with no rotator trouble but there are many diff forms of rotator cuff damage.

----------


## RaginCajun

> ive a rotator complaint also and deads are one of the few lifts that arent affecting it badly mate. have you tried free bar deads yet?
> 
> to be perfectly honest, i would advise anyone to dead with a smith machine and i reckon the unnatural plain of movement would trouble your rotator more. try building up gradually with the free bar, if you haven't already. i managed a double out of 255kgs last week with no rotator trouble but there are many diff forms of rotator cuff damage.


there is no free bar to do this on, that is my problem. only have the smith machine to work on for this exericse. thanks for info.

----------


## dec11

> there is no free bar to do this on, that is my problem. only have the smith machine to work on for this exericse. thanks for info.


ah, sorry, i missed that in your post. get yourself an olympic bar mate, i wouldnt advise very much on a smith machine tbh

----------


## RaginCajun

> ah, sorry, i missed that in your post. get yourself an olympic bar mate, i wouldnt advise very much on a smith machine tbh


well, i need to join a gym so i can take advantage of that but the little fitness center at my apartment complex has enough equipment to get a workout in, just not able to do free weights. there are dumbbells up to 60lbs and that is it. thanks for the info again dec

----------


## srsharp

im just starting to work out and cut body fat. What are some good exercises to start with. Also how many days a week should i lift? and should i take and protein, creatine, ect.

----------


## dooie

Dec11 a few questions for you after today and yesterday's workout!

Firstly: my lower back kills me after I do deads, very painful for about 2-3 days afterwards, can't stand long trips in the car!! An I doing something wrong? Or is this normal..

Secondly: on leg day my legs are taking up to 5-7 days to recover from my sessions.. This is ridiculous, I have just bought some zinc magnesium tablets to try recover faster and sleep better. But it's just not practical for me!

Actually while I'm at it, the last 5 sessions or so on legs, after heavy leg presses, I get very light headed and need to lay down afterwards, I get very close to fainting or p/o this just wrecks my workout, is this a sign of anything?

Any help on any of these subjects would be a major help man, thanks for ur time!

----------


## jpowell

conflicting info going on in my gym between myself, personal trainer, and his coworker. back in oct 2011. i had set goals to get down in wate around 215 and bf high teens roughly 18%. i started off 245 with 27% body fat. my pt had me doing cardio 3x a day 45 morn, 20 preworkout, 30 post. plus my wate training. n my diet consisted of .5c oats, 4 eggs, break.....and the rest of the day 4oz chicken breast with 1c veggies 4x....problem is his coworker another pt, told me im over working with the cardio. so all that cardio is not burning fat but burning muscle. and also my diet sucked. lol. my current stats are 234..24.1% bf as of yesterday. kinda lost on wat i shod do/listen to. any help is appreciated.

----------


## AndrewD54

Day 1 back/ biceps
4x10 pullups
4x10 rows
4x10 shrugs
4x10 standing curls
4x10 preacher curls
4x10 concentration curls
Day 2 chest and triceps
4x10 flat bench
4x10 weighted dips
4x10 flys
4x10 rope pull downs
day 3 legs
4x10 squats
4x10 seated leg press
4x10 leg extensions 
4x10 leg curls
4x10 calf raises
Deads every few workouts
day 4 shoulders
4x10 front raises
4x10 side raises
4x10 reverse pec deck
4x10 arnolds


I could use a critique. I have chronic shoulder bursitis so any overhead lifts are out unfortunetly

----------


## dec11

> im just starting to work out and cut body fat. What are some good exercises to start with. Also how many days a week should i lift? and should i take and protein, creatine, ect.


adopt a 3 day split:

mon chest and arms

wed legs and abs

fri back and shoulders

start with compound exercises and then do three assistant exercises. do cardio on days inbetween. best to hit the nutrition section for diet advice as this section is just for training mate




> Dec11 a few questions for you after today and yesterday's workout!
> 
> Firstly: my lower back kills me after I do deads, very painful for about 2-3 days afterwards, can't stand long trips in the car!! An I doing something wrong? Or is this normal..
> 
> Secondly: on leg day my legs are taking up to 5-7 days to recover from my sessions.. This is ridiculous, I have just bought some zinc magnesium tablets to try recover faster and sleep better. But it's just not practical for me!
> 
> Actually while I'm at it, the last 5 sessions or so on legs, after heavy leg presses, I get very light headed and need to lay down afterwards, I get very close to fainting or p/o this just wrecks my workout, is this a sign of anything?
> 
> Any help on any of these subjects would be a major help man, thanks for ur time!


how long have you been deadlifting for? lower back pain would be quite normal for some as long as its recovery pain and not condition pain. as for the rest i'd leaning towards insufficient fuelling in your workouts, dizziness is common if really hitting it hard, its also attributed to low blood sugar. are you on top of your diet? if in doubt head over to g brice in the nutrition section and post your diet mate.

----------


## dec11

> Day 1 back/ biceps
> 4x10 pullups* not good if have rotator probs, replace with shoulder width pulldowns palms facing towards you*
> 4x10 rows
> 4x10 shrugs
> 4x10 standing curls
> 4x10 preacher curls
> 4x10 concentration curls
> Day 2 chest and triceps
> 4x10 flat bench
> ...


bolds. i'd forget shoulders for a while if i were you. i have rotator probs also and the only way ive settled it down is by excluding ALL pressing, shit i know, but it aint going to get better without rest

----------


## dec11

> conflicting info going on in my gym between myself, personal trainer, and his coworker. back in oct 2011. i had set goals to get down in wate around 215 and bf high teens roughly 18%. i started off 245 with 27% body fat. my pt had me doing cardio 3x a day 45 morn, 20 preworkout, 30 post. plus my wate training. n my diet consisted of .5c oats, 4 eggs, break.....and the rest of the day 4oz chicken breast with 1c veggies 4x....problem is his coworker another pt, told me im over working with the cardio. so all that cardio is not burning fat but burning muscle. and also my diet sucked. lol. my current stats are 234..24.1% bf as of yesterday. kinda lost on wat i shod do/listen to. any help is appreciated.


45min in the morn x4 is sufficient cardio for fatloss in my opinion. i used to PT also and worked alongside some morons, if they havent at least 10yrs experience in a competitive field then walk away. all the certs in the world are no substitute for experience.

again, head to the nutrition section for your diet advice

----------


## AndrewD54

Thanks man

----------


## dec11

> Thanks man


no prob. be very careful with that shoulder mate, ive been on a one step forward and two back basis with mine for over a year. only totally cut out pressing movements and back training (strangely i can still pull 250kg + dlifts) around 4wks ago and am feeling definite progress now. i started using Joint Force by E-Pharma last week, on the advice of another experienced member. its a topical spray, im definitely getting further relief from that also, might be worth a shot for you.

----------


## JimmySidewalk

I know its the exercise clinic, but i do have a question regarding juice doses which i dont think is worth starting another thread. By this we'll also be bumping the thread.

What would you choose between the following 3 cycles(no talk about PCT or other "support" drugs while on cycle, or cycle lenght, just compounds)

First 700mg prop+ 700mg tren a per week
Second 1050mg prop + 350mg tren a per week
Third 1400mg prop per week

Which one floats your boat ?

----------


## dec11

> *I know its the exercise clinic, but i do have a question regarding juice doses* which i dont think is worth starting another thread. By this we'll also be bumping the thread.
> 
> What would you choose between the following 3 cycles(no talk about PCT or other "support" drugs while on cycle, or cycle lenght, just compounds)
> 
> First 700mg prop+ 700mg tren a per week
> Second 1050mg prop + 350mg tren a per week
> Third 1400mg prop per week
> 
> Which one floats your boat ?


kinda contradicting yourself mate? amazing how i put 'no aas questions' and still someone has to persist!!! please dont ask aas q's in here, thats what Q&A is for....

----------


## DanB

dont worry this thread will never be short of workout questions with me around mate haha, i understand how your lifts go stale after time if you dont change it up and occasionally take few days off, my question for you is can same thing happen with cardio? reason being is that, i been hammering the threadmill recently and putting in some serious miles but last 2 days i tried to run pwo and after 15mins i had to stop because of massive pumps in calves, i have a mental block which makes me cringe at the site of a bike and reason i changed to threadmil couple months ago, and if i try to go a few rounds on bag, my power is fine but speed is terrible, alot slower than usual and alot slower than what it should be for my weight and fitness all i can do is the rowing machine is this a mental thing i need to push through or have i burnt myself out?

----------


## DanB

and lifts are fine, no lack of energy or drop in weight

----------


## dec11

> dont worry this thread will never be short of workout questions with me around mate haha, i understand how your lifts go stale after time if you dont change it up and occasionally take few days off, my question for you is can same thing happen with cardio? reason being is that, i been hammering the threadmill recently and putting in some serious miles but last 2 days i tried to run pwo and after 15mins i had to stop because of massive pumps in calves, i have a mental block which makes me cringe at the site of a bike and reason i changed to threadmil couple months ago, and if i try to go a few rounds on bag, my power is fine but speed is terrible, alot slower than usual and alot slower than what it should be for my weight and fitness all i can do is the rowing machine is this a mental thing i need to push through or have i burnt myself out?





> and lifts are fine, no lack of energy or drop in weight


calf pumps or shin splints? try 5mins on a bike when you feel them and then go back to tmill and alternate like that.

i know what you mean by the mental thing and find jack3d lifts me out of any mental slump.

----------


## DanB

defo pumps it sounds strange i know, but i regular get splints from running on tarmac so i know the feeling. . . .im up to 2 scoops of jack but i might start taking it later so it hits more during cardio than weights, so it isnt a big deal and i just need stop moaning and get on with it kind of thing then yeah

----------


## dec11

> defo pumps it sounds strange i know, but i regular get splints from running on tarmac so i know the feeling. . . .im up to 2 scoops of jack but i might start taking it later so it hits more during cardio than weights, so it isnt a big deal and i just need stop moaning and get on with it kind of thing then yeah


if its that heavy 'cant be arsed' mental feeling then def take a week off. none of us love training that much that it doesnt piss us of at times.

----------


## DanB

yeah weights are fine but even the thoughts of cardio has become painful recently, think it may be a little break then, thanks mate

----------


## t-gunz

hey dec. say for doing a short burst cycle. what do you think the best training method would be. high intensity included drop sets or GVT basic hypertrophy program?

----------


## dec11

> hey dec. say for doing a short burst cycle. what do you think the best training method would be. high intensity included drop sets or GVT basic hypertrophy program?


which every method you've found to work best for you mate. i personally dont go in for these type programmes, i just up my weights has i feel them each week.

----------


## ThatAthlete82

What are your thoughts on the trap bar dead lift overall? How is it compared to regular deadlift?

----------


## dec11

> What are your thoughts on the trap bar dead lift overall? How is it compared to regular deadlift?


hand positioning is different and by your side which means you wont be thrusting shoulders back to lock out the movement. you wouldnt be lifting as heavy on it either, i wouldnt have thought

----------


## dec11

bump

----------


## Mr. Small

dec.....what you think of the HST method. Full body workout 3 times a week with compound excercises. eg. Monday, Wednesday and Friday. So each body part gets done 24 times over the 8 week period.

One compound for each major muscle group.
Each muscle group worked on Monday, Wednesday and Friday.

Week 1: one set of 15
Week 2: one set of 15
Week 3: 2 sets of 10
Week 4: 2 sets of 10
Week 5: 3 sets of 5
Week 6: 3 sets of 5
Week 7: 3 sets of 5
Week 8: 3 sets of 5

The calculate the weight you use, take your max, and gradually decrease it over the 6 workouts. The amount you increase each workout could be varied, generally 5-20lbs, with bigger bodyparts and compound movements having the bigger increments. I'm not a real strong guy, so for the Squat, Bench Press, and SLDL I increase the weight 10lbs, and for everything else I increase it by 5lbs. This can also be done percent wise (5-10% increments) So, for example, we'll say your 15 rep max for bench press is 100lbs, and you are using increments of 10lbs.

This would be what your weights would look like for bench press:

Workout 1 (Week 1, Monday)-50lbs x 15 reps
Workout 2 (Week 1, Wednesday)-60lbs x 15 reps
Workout 3 (Week 1, Friday)-70lbs 2 x 10 reps
Workout 4 (Week 2, Monday)-80lbs 2 x 10 reps
Workout 5 (Week 2, Wednesday)-90lbs 3 x 5 reps
Workout 6 (Week 2, Friday)- 100lbs (max) 3 x5 reps
Weeks 7 & 8 would go beyond the max if possible

----------


## dec11

^^^^^will lead to burn out in no time unless you're using baby weights, i dont subscribe to any of these fad workouts. my theory and whats worked best is KISS (keep it simple stupid).

you need to delete that link mate.

----------


## BluePoker

Hello. This is my first post here, and I wanted to say that this thread is pretty incredible. It's very nice of you to this, and I'll be referencing it pretty often hopefully. I'm completely new to working out in a gym type of setting. I was wondering if you recommend any workout programs? My friends who are in better shape than me, but not intense bodybuilders by any means say I should try Starting Strength. I've read the book and have the DVD and am considernig doing it. I was also browsing through some of the stickies on this site (they're great) and found this work out:

Beginner work out:


Mon - Chest, Shoulders, Triceps
* Incline press - warm-up sets, 1 work set
* Flat flyes - 1 work set
* Millitary press - 1 warm-up, 1 work set
* Lateral flyes - 1 work set
* Rear delt machine - 1 work set
* Tricep pushdowns - 1 warm-up, 1 work set
* Lying tricep extensions - 1 work-set

Wed - Quads, Hams, Calves
* Squats - warm-ups, 1 work set
* Leg press - work set
* Leg extension - work set
* Leg curl - warm-up, work set
* Stiff leg deadlift - work set
* Standing calf raise - work set

Fri - Abs, Back, Bis
* Rope crunches - warm up, work set
* Lat pull down - warm-ups, work set
* Deadlift - warm-up, work set
* Bent-over rows - work set
* Shrugs - work set
* Standing BB curls - warm up, work set
* Concentration curl - work set



Do you recommend either of these, or have your own that you thing is better? I'm new to working out in a gym. I'm 26, 6'2" and about 170-180 lbs. I think I'm too skinny for my height and am looking to put on some weight. Thanks a lot.

----------


## lmmalone

Could you critique my routine??

Monday-Chest/triceps

Benchpress
Incline bench
Decline bench
Some cable chest presses
Tricep press (Single hand and double hand)
Cable pull downs
Dips

Wednesday-back/biceps
Deadlift
DB rows
Seated rows
DB pull overs
Then curls til I can hardly hold my car keys

Friday - shoulders/arms/abs
Overhead press
DB shoulder press
Front raises 
Side raises
Shrugs
Random Ab/Arm work

Anything I should change?

----------


## SlimmerMe

Howdy. I have a gut feeling Dec might be on hiatus. If not, then I stand corrected.

----------


## ThatAthlete82

Could you give me a brief primer on eccentric versus concentric muscle movement? Only thing I know is that eccentric gets you sorer but does not necessarily make you stronger. Also, is static muscle movement beneficial/worthwhile(ie. holding a bicep curl in the middle of the movement)?

----------


## TBrat21

Hey Dec

Appreciate this thread. I have never been able to achieve any pump or soreness the next day in my lats whatsoever. I have started training much harder and have gotten a lot more serious in the past 4 months, and over this 4 months I have tried anything i can think of or have read to try and get them some pump. I haven't noticed much change in their size either but I'm still pretty heavy so its not easy to notice.

I have tried lower weight with perfect form with a hold and pinch at the bottom for 3 or 4 sets at 10-12 reps. With narrow and wide grip, as well as seated on the cable stack (friend at the gym suggested it)

I have tried much higher weight adding more swing and lower back involvement with lower reps. 

Lastly I have tried 3 working sets and 1 drop set with both good form and lighter weight as well as swinging with heavier weight.

Thanks for any help.

T

----------


## Dukkit

> Could you give me a brief primer on eccentric versus concentric muscle movement? Only thing I know is that eccentric gets you sorer but does not necessarily make you stronger. Also, is static muscle movement beneficial/worthwhile(ie. holding a bicep curl in the middle of the movement)?


While Im not Dec, Id like to jump in on this. 

First, just to get it out of the way... neither eccentric nor concentric muscle contractions can be stated to "get you more sore."
Done properly... they can both result in soreness and muscle growth. 

Also, the term "contraction" is to be used loosely here. Contraction means to shorten. But during an eccentric contraction, the muscle is not actually shortening. 

As for a brief primer - 
Concentric contraction - The muscle is activated to contract throughout the entire muscle. Think of simply lifting something. We all know how to do that. 

Eccentric contraction - The muscle (bicep) is stretched while under tension due to slowing of the joint. (elbow) This can be achieved by having a weight heavier then the force thats generated by the muscle. Think of a 200lb curl forcing your arms down. Or by a purposeful slowing of the motion/muscle. Think of a 20lb curl and taking 5 seconds to lower the weight. 

As for which contraction makes you stronger... well if youre overloading the muscle with weight and making that muscle respond by lifting said weight until you cause hypertrophy, then Concentric contractions can make you stronger. (I.e lifting heavy ass weights in order to get big and strong) 

Though, if you overload the muscle even more on the eccentric motion of an exercise... forcing yourself to control the decent of an amount of weight that you actually wouldnt be able to lift well with a concentric contraction. That can also cause overload and force muscle growth and strength increases. (I.e. negatives) 

Now, as for static contractions... also called Isometric Exercise...
The joint and muscle together are held in a static position by resistance (holding a curl with your arms at 90 degree angle.) or by something just plain immovable. (Pushing against a wall)
Bodybuilders arent the only ones who use static contractions... yoga, martial arts, and many others do as well. 
Static contractions are good for building strength at the position that you are performing the contraction. 

What that means is... lets say youre bench pressing 250 with full motions for a few reps. But for some reason when you put on 260, you struggle to get the weight past halfway up. 
How to use static contractions to help would be... using a spotter... put that 260 or even 270 on the bar. Have the spotter help you fully lift the weight. Then slowly lower it until you reach the halfway point that you usually struggle at. Pause and hold it for as long as you can. 
Doing so over the course of time should build strength in that weak part of your movement (the halfway point) which should let you eventually fully that weight without problems.

----------


## Dukkit

> Hey Dec
> 
> Appreciate this thread. I have never been able to achieve any pump or soreness the next day in my lats whatsoever. I have started training much harder and have gotten a lot more serious in the past 4 months, and over this 4 months I have tried anything i can think of or have read to try and get them some pump. I haven't noticed much change in their size either but I'm still pretty heavy so its not easy to notice.
> 
> I have tried lower weight with perfect form with a hold and pinch at the bottom for 3 or 4 sets at 10-12 reps. With narrow and wide grip, as well as seated on the cable stack (friend at the gym suggested it)
> 
> I have tried much higher weight adding more swing and lower back involvement with lower reps. 
> 
> Lastly I have tried 3 working sets and 1 drop set with both good form and lighter weight as well as swinging with heavier weight.
> ...


Few points...
-Your back is a tricky muscle group for numerous reasons. For one, its many muscles working in union. Two, you cant see it while youre working it. So youre missing some of that mind muscle connection that you have with every other muscle group. 
-Go slower
-Strict form = no rocking, no cheating. Lower the weight if you have to. 
-Increase your reps. 15-20
-You say youve focused on pinching (contracting) the muscle at the peak of the exercise... well how bout this... also focus on the stretch at the bottom of the exercise. So lets say your doing seated cable rows. Pull the weight back and when you are fully contracted, hold that position for a few seconds. Imagine your shoulders blades squeezing together and touching. Then... while you are letting your arms out in front of you to reach starting position again... go slow, round your shoulders (keeping lower back straight) let that weight PULL your lats and stretch all those muscle fibers. Imagine your lats being stretched and almost pulled under your armpits and coming around to your chest. Like spreading your wings.  :Smilie: 

Also... are you incorporating both width and thickness movements with each workout? Pull ups and rows. Deads and straight arm lat pull downs. Like that? 

Try these suggestions bro.

----------


## TBrat21

> Few points...
> -Your back is a tricky muscle group for numerous reasons. For one, its many muscles working in union. Two, you cant see it while youre working it. So youre missing some of that mind muscle connection that you have with every other muscle group. 
> -Go slower
> -Strict form = no rocking, no cheating. Lower the weight if you have to. 
> -Increase your reps. 15-20
> -You say youve focused on pinching (contracting) the muscle at the peak of the exercise... well how bout this... also focus on the stretch at the bottom of the exercise. So lets say your doing seated cable rows. Pull the weight back and when you are fully contracted, hold that position for a few seconds. Imagine your shoulders blades squeezing together and touching. Then... while you are letting your arms out in front of you to reach starting position again... go slow, round your shoulders (keeping lower back straight) let that weight PULL your lats and stretch all those muscle fibers. Imagine your lats being stretched and almost pulled under your armpits and coming around to your chest. Like spreading your wings. 
> 
> Also... are you incorporating both width and thickness movements with each workout? Pull ups and rows. Deads and straight arm lat pull downs. Like that? 
> 
> Try these suggestions bro.


Shit, thanks for the info. Lifted back this afternoon before i read the reply. My back workout today consisted of:
Bent over barbell rows
wide grip assisted pull-ups (I've just got under 300lbs, I'm a big guy so normal pull ups are out of the question right now, can just barely get one with a lot of jerking and jumping to start haha its a goal I'm working towards for sure).
Deadlifts
Reverse flies
t-bar rows
narrow grip assisted pull-ups
seated rows

I have never tried straight arm lat pulldowns, have never read anything that suggested them either but I haven't been researching very diligently apparently, what do they focus on? How wide do you grip? Any info would be appreciated. Thank you again for the advice.

T

----------


## Dukkit

They work lats. I feel a great pump in my lower lats from them. Since Im pretty tall, my lower lats are tough to get growing. 
You can also do one arm straight pulldowns. Just grab the single hand attachment. 




> Shit, thanks for the info. Lifted back this afternoon before i read the reply. My back workout today consisted of:
> Bent over barbell rows
> wide grip assisted pull-ups (I've just got under 300lbs, I'm a big guy so normal pull ups are out of the question right now, can just barely get one with a lot of jerking and jumping to start haha its a goal I'm working towards for sure).
> Deadlifts
> Reverse flies
> t-bar rows
> narrow grip assisted pull-ups
> seated rows
> 
> ...

----------


## jpowell

shod have come here first! how do you develop back thickness, and width in chest and back. ive got pretty good size, but its compact. and i was told, i didnt have ne back thickness and to build it up. but how?

----------


## SlimmerMe

never heard of straight arm lats Dukkit.....thanks for the video...

----------


## BluePoker

Well I've decided to go with 

Sunday Squat Bench Deadlift

Tuesday Squat press power clean

Thursday Squat bench deadlift

Pretty worried about whether or not my legs will be able to handle this, so might drop the squats on Tuesday. Could someone recommend something simple to work out my biceps and upper back? I am planning just do curls as of right

----------


## Sailor Moon

I hate running, I have always gotten terrible shin splints and a sore back (i may just be a wimp) but I feel at a plateau with the arc trainer and elliptical, is there anything I can do to help running suck less!?

----------


## ThatAthlete82

When your shin splints aren't sore, do some toe raises to strengthen them. Put your heels on a raised platform with your toes hanging off and then lift them(you can place a 25lb plate on your toes and then lift for extra difficulty). 

The soreness in your back could be from a number of things. Is it mostly lower back or upper back? Lower back pain is indicative of running with your heels hitting the ground first or leaning back too far when running(this could be the arc trainer). 

The advice I always give people who get bored with their cardio is to simply switch it up. I HATE treadmills and ellipticals, so I play basketball for an hour for my running. I'd suggest you try some other machines or find an activity you enjoy. HIIT is also good because you get it over with quickly(and often burn more calories).

----------


## Dukkit

> shod have come here first! how do you develop back thickness, and width in chest and back. ive got pretty good size, but its compact. and i was told, i didnt have ne back thickness and to build it up. but how?


Heavy bent over rows, and heavy dead lifts.

----------


## Dukkit

> I hate running, I have always gotten terrible shin splints and a sore back (i may just be a wimp) but I feel at a plateau with the arc trainer and elliptical, is there anything I can do to help running suck less!?


Why do you run? 

I see no reason to fully run. lol

Cardio? Short sprints are better. Or low intensity cardio, aka walking on treadmill with an incline or up the resistance on the elliptical.

----------


## Dukkit

> Well I've decided to go with 
> 
> Sunday Squat Bench Deadlift
> 
> Tuesday Squat press power clean
> 
> Thursday Squat bench deadlift
> 
> Pretty worried about whether or not my legs will be able to handle this, so might drop the squats on Tuesday. Could someone recommend something simple to work out my biceps and upper back? I am planning just do curls as of right


Hmm interesting whole body spilts. 

What are your weights and reps for these exercises?

Maybe switch deadlifts to pull ups or rows for one day.
Or actually... scratch deads and do rack pulls. 

Gives your legs more recuperation time.

----------


## marcus300

Sounds like Dukkit is own new Dec1

Keep up the good work D  :Smilie: 




I'm sure Dec will be lurking somewhere!!

----------


## Dukkit

Hahah I saw no one replied to these poor lost souls. 

Figured Id cover until dec gets bail money. j/k

----------


## army_cobra

I have one for ya. I have degenerative disk disease and three buldge disk in my lower back along with a bad acl in my left knee. I have had 3 knee surgeries and it just wont hold up. I am wanting something that will strengthen my lower back muscles. Also wanting something to strengthen my lefts that wont put pressure on back. What ya all got?

----------


## DanB

> Sounds like Dukkit is own new Dec1
> 
> Keep up the good work D 
> 
> I'm sure Dec will be lurking somewhere!!


Yeah its a shame to see this thread die, some of the info Dec gave me has really improved my workouts

Dukkit do you have the time to step up and take this thread over?

I'm looking trying a gvt routine for next 6 - 8 weeks and could use some guidence on planning it out ?

----------


## Dukkit

> I have one for ya. I have degenerative disk disease and three buldge disk in my lower back along with a bad acl in my left knee. I have had 3 knee surgeries and it just wont hold up. I am wanting something that will strengthen my lower back muscles. Also wanting something to strengthen my lefts that wont put pressure on back. What ya all got?


This is right up my alley. I also have degenerative disease along with 2 bulged discs at L4 and L5. 

I strengthen my lower back with some core exercises. 

I use supermans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbaS01jTlIY 
planks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSHjTRCQxIw

Also some yoga exercises. 
Wall planks
Downward facing dog 
Google those if you dont know them. 

Another thing Ive found... keep your hamstrings loose. If they get tight from anything... my lower back gets affected. 
So stretch them as often as possible too. 

I also practice sucking in my belly button. Imagine sucking in your belly button so that it touches your spine. 
Like a vaccum pose that all the classic bodybuilders did.
I find this strengthens the inner stomach muscles which are all related to the back. 
Ab exercises like hanging leg raises too. 
Stronger abs help keep the mid section tight. Helping the back be stronger.


As for your knee... I cant say. No experience with bad knees and I dont want to mess you up worse. 
Have you been to any therapists?

----------


## Dukkit

Oh and I also use back raises. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2el7EAWMT8
Dont use any weight at first. Dont arch too far back or too far forward. I do 15-20 reps then grab some weights and do some more sets.

----------


## Dukkit

> Yeah its a shame to see this thread die, some of the info Dec gave me has really improved my workouts
> 
> Dukkit do you have the time to step up and take this thread over?
> 
> I'm looking trying a gvt routine for next 6 - 8 weeks and could use some guidence on planning it out ?


Ill give you any and all info that I can brother. 

If I dont respond in a timely fashion... PM me and let me know you asked a question here. Sometimes I over look threads.

----------


## DanB

Thanks much appreciated bro

I'm on app at the moment I shall post for critique tomorrow

Also would you consider gvt along with training for k1 fight I.e. circuit training, sparring etc to be overtraining for 3 - 4 weeks pre fight?

If so I shall leave gvt until.after but I'm currently ''on'' so thinking I might just be able to handle it in short term.......

----------


## Dukkit

> Thanks much appreciated bro
> 
> I'm on app at the moment I shall post for critique tomorrow
> 
> Also would you consider gvt along with training for k1 fight I.e. circuit training, sparring etc to be overtraining for 3 - 4 weeks pre fight?
> 
> If so I shall leave gvt until.after but I'm currently ''on'' so thinking I might just be able to handle it in short term.......


I believe as long as your rest, food intake, and super supp intake are all up to par... then you should be able to do both. 

But mainly... listen to your body. If youre starting to feel run down sometime pre-fight... then cut out gvt and keep the fight training.

----------


## Razor

I am having problems getting upper middle chest developed. Im doing incline, flat, DD incline, cable curls...not working...what do I need to do?
I am using the slingshot training method. the rest of my body is developing great, but not that part.

----------


## Tx89

My upper chest really came in good when I trained incline with a steeper angle and brouhght the bar down higher than usual more towards neck than nipples. Also going all the Way down combined with slow rep speed and peak contraction worked good :Smilie:  maybe that helps you!

----------


## Razor

> My upper chest really came in good when I trained incline with a steeper angle and brouhght the bar down higher than usual more towards neck than nipples. Also going all the Way down combined with slow rep speed and peak contraction worked good maybe that helps you!


All the way down means past 90°..that hurts my shoulders

----------


## Dukkit

> I am having problems getting upper middle chest developed. Im doing incline, flat, DD incline, cable curls...not working...what do I need to do?
> I am using the slingshot training method. the rest of my body is developing great, but not that part.


Look up Doggcrap chest stretching method. 

Its helped shape my chest overall. 

Its basically like a fly but you keep your arms by your sides on the bench and let the weight push your elbows down which pulls on youre chest like crazy. 
Its a painful stretch but works!

Also as TX stated... bring the bar down closer to your neck, not your sternum. I do this for all my pressing exercises. Used to bring down to the sternum for years, but switching it up gives me a better, deeper stretch and stronger contraction.

----------


## Tx89

Very good advice right there!
Also you could try cable crosses from the low position pulling up to about eye level. Again with peak contraction.
Or incline cable flyes with very slow tempo

----------


## Dukkit

Cable crosses from low position are great too. Theyre all I do on cable flyes cuz from upper setting messes up my shoulders.

----------


## hex

> Cable crosses from low position are great too. Theyre all I do on cable flyes cuz from upper setting messes up my shoulders.


love these i have been increasing the size of my chest ever since i included them with weighted dips as a mini superset at the end of my chest routine

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## hex

are there many different muscles hit in a front squat compared to regular? i have never done fronts before wondering if i missing out

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## Dukkit

> are there many different muscles hit in a front squat compared to regular? i have never done fronts before wondering if i missing out


I personally find that front squats torch my quads more than regular squats. Regular squats activate more of my hams and glutes.

----------


## ghettoboyd

and you all thought dukkit was just another pretty face...surprise!!! the man knows his shit inside and out and has helped alot of peeps over the years...id say at least 10 of his posts are of quality....lol just kidding bro...

----------


## hex

> I personally find that front squats torch my quads more than regular squats. Regular squats activate more of my hams and glutes.


so would it be good to alternate them into my routine?

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## Dukkit

> and you all thought dukkit was just another pretty face...surprise!!! the man knows his shit inside and out and has helped alot of peeps over the years...id say at least 10 of his posts are of quality....lol just kidding bro...


Hahah I know youve missed me boo! 



> so would it be good to alternate them into my routine?


Of course. If your routine gets stale or gains stall... throw them in. See how you respond. Some ppl cant do front squats due to the orientation of their shoulders and how the bar is positioned. Also the balance of the weight can be difficult to master at first. Def be sure to start with low weight to get the form right. 

If you can do them, and you feel they help your progress... great. If not... try something else. 

I say over and over again... this lifestyle is about experimentation. See what works, see what doesnt.

----------


## ghettoboyd

> Hahah I know youve missed me boo! 
> 
> Of course. If your routine gets stale or gains stall... throw them in. See how you respond. Some ppl cant do front squats due to the orientation of their shoulders and how the bar is positioned. Also the balance of the weight can be difficult to master at first. Def be sure to start with low weight to get the form right. 
> 
> If you can do them, and you feel they help your progress... great. If not... try something else. 
> 
> I say over and over again... this lifestyle is about experimentation. See what works, see what doesnt.


its good to see you on here more often for shure bro...

----------


## Razor

> Look up Doggcrap chest stretching method. 
> 
> Its helped shape my chest overall. 
> 
> Its basically like a fly but you keep your arms by your sides on the bench and let the weight push your elbows down which pulls on youre chest like crazy. 
> Its a painful stretch but works!
> 
> Also as TX stated... bring the bar down closer to your neck, not your sternum. I do this for all my pressing exercises. Used to bring down to the sternum for years, but switching it up gives me a better, deeper stretch and stronger contraction.


Ok thanks will try this again next chest day

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## Tx89

They sure are a good addition. I would Never replace regular squats but maybe try mixing them in for leg extensions...
Moderate Weight high reps works good for many ppl concerning Front squats

----------


## hex

ya i love my squats to replace them, but switching them for leg extensions sounds like a fun idea for sure

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## Razor

> Look up Doggcrap chest stretching method. 
> 
> Its helped shape my chest overall. 
> 
> Its basically like a fly but you keep your arms by your sides on the bench and let the weight push your elbows down which pulls on youre chest like crazy. 
> Its a painful stretch but works!
> 
> Also as TX stated... bring the bar down closer to your neck, not your sternum. I do this for all my pressing exercises. Used to bring down to the sternum for years, but switching it up gives me a better, deeper stretch and stronger contraction.


Is this it?
http://videos.bodybuilding.com/watch...-chest-stretch

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## Bertuzzi

Wow, glad there is a thread like this... I feel my workouts have never been that great and I have tried many different styles... none of which I ever know the names of... when people start talking workout styles I am clueless. 

Anyways.... just getting back into the gym after 6 months of no gym and the 6 months before that barely ever going... my strength is way down and I am fat  :Smilie: . Example... I use to do 110lb dumbells for 6 reps on incline bench, now I MAX at 65lbs and usually on get 5 out.

So, my question is; Is my style of workout any good or should I totally revamp it?

I'll give you and example day "Chest & Biceps"

Start off with chest doing Dumbell incline.
Warm up with 40lb for 10reps
then 50 for 6
60 for 6
65 for 6

Then chest fly machine and I pretty much run the same thing... warm up for 10 then up my weights by 10lbs each set and do 6 reps each... 90lb x 10, 100lb x 6, 110lb x 6, 120lb x 6

Then I finish with cable flys... same setup as above.

Then I go into biceps... same style... warmup 10,6,6,6 for 3 bicep exercise.

Is this an effective workout regimine, because I just don't feel I get enough out of it.... I mean I am maxing out on all my weights and pushing my limits, but I just feel when I leave the gym that I could have got a better workout.

Also... I take about 45sec break between all sets.

Your input is desperately needed.

Thanks!

----------


## Dukkit

> Is this it?
> http://videos.bodybuilding.com/watch...-chest-stretch


.
Thats it. Let the weight push your arms down with pulls at your chest. I do it for as long as I can. Usually a min.

----------


## Dukkit

> Wow, glad there is a thread like this... I feel my workouts have never been that great and I have tried many different styles... none of which I ever know the names of... when people start talking workout styles I am clueless. 
> 
> Anyways.... just getting back into the gym after 6 months of no gym and the 6 months before that barely ever going... my strength is way down and I am fat . Example... I use to do 110lb dumbells for 6 reps on incline bench, now I MAX at 65lbs and usually on get 5 out.
> 
> So, my question is; Is my style of workout any good or should I totally revamp it?
> 
> I'll give you and example day "Chest & Biceps"
> 
> Start off with chest doing Dumbell incline.
> ...


Hey Bertuzzi. Glad to hear youre back in the gym. We all take time off and it can be daunting when coming back and realizing youre not at the level you used to be. 

Youre routine doesnt look bad at all. 

But if you feel that its not really pushing you, and not giving you gains... Id suggest adding in some intensity techniques. 

Throw in some drop sets, rest pause, supersets, heavy negatives. Any of those. 

Maybe since youre just getting back in it, and you feel youre overweight... superset your chest exercise with your bi exercise. 
Bang them both out, then rest for a min. And keep at it. 

On your last exericise (cable flyes) do some drop sets. 

You should really feel this slight change. And youll feel like your pushing yourself more.

Plus the extra intensity should help kick up the fat loss. 

Keep rest periods short enough to catch your breath and change your weights.

----------


## Dukkit

Also... I dont like that youre doing your weights for 6 reps for all the weights even though youre increasing the weight. 

EX. on your DB incline... You should be able to do 50lbs for 8-10, Then for 60lbs 6-8. Then for your 65... go till failure.

----------


## Bertuzzi

> Hey Bertuzzi. Glad to hear youre back in the gym. We all take time off and it can be daunting when coming back and realizing youre not at the level you used to be. 
> 
> Youre routine doesnt look bad at all. 
> 
> But if you feel that its not really pushing you, and not giving you gains... Id suggest adding in some intensity techniques. 
> 
> Throw in some drop sets, rest pause, supersets, heavy negatives. Any of those. 
> 
> Maybe since youre just getting back in it, and you feel youre overweight... superset your chest exercise with your bi exercise. 
> ...





> Also... I dont like that youre doing your weights for 6 reps for all the weights even though youre increasing the weight. 
> 
> EX. on your DB incline... You should be able to do 50lbs for 8-10, Then for 60lbs 6-8. Then for your 65... go till failure.


Thanks... I'm gonna try those things for sure... hopefully that will me that extra I'm looking for

----------


## Back In Black

So, I have ongoing problems with my lower back. Regular deadlifts, rack pulls, regular squats and front squats all cause me grief to the point where I have now decided to drop them from my workouts altogether. Also the leg press at my gym causes me problems.

I have decided to sub in sumo deads on back day, I've done them before with no issues.

I have a hex bar at my gym - if I 'deadlift' with it as a sub for squats is it a suitable swap? There is more leg movement on hex deads than regular deads. I also do romanian deadlifts and split squats on leg day.

Or, any other suggestions?

----------


## Dukkit

> So, I have ongoing problems with my lower back. Regular deadlifts, rack pulls, regular squats and front squats all cause me grief to the point where I have now decided to drop them from my workouts altogether. Also the leg press at my gym causes me problems.
> 
> I have decided to sub in sumo deads on back day, I've done them before with no issues.
> 
> I have a hex bar at my gym - if I 'deadlift' with it as a sub for squats is it a suitable swap? There is more leg movement on hex deads than regular deads. I also do romanian deadlifts and split squats on leg day.
> 
> Or, any other suggestions?


Well first and most importantly... you need to get your back checked. Def an MRI or such, cuz if all those exercises hurt or cause back problems... there is a deeper reason. Most likely a bulged disc, or the like. 

But as for other leg ideas... look up barbell hack squats. I have back problems and I use them when its acting up. 

Also if you can get the form right... try overhead squats. You dont need as much weight to get a nice burn. And they keep my back stretched while performing the lifting. 

Give those a go and see how they feel. 

But def see a doctor bro. Or at least a very good chiropractor.

----------


## Dukkit

Question on your leg press and the back pain associated with it...

have you tried lowering the weight and hitting 20 or more reps? 

Also... be sure not to let your back arch off the pad when youre bringing the weight down. Keep back flat, and head flat on the pad. Keeps your spine aligned and prevents tweaking your back any worse.

----------


## Back In Black

I am thinking it's muscular as it is worse to the right of the erector spinae but yep, I'll get it checked, just keep putting it off.

Gym has no hack squat machine but I'll try a few sets with barbell.

Leg press is ok to a point but feel that if I stop before my back starts to loft from the pad then my ROM is poor. It's an awful leg press machine!

My usual rep range is 20 or so.

Overhead squats? I'll try them too.

Cheers.

----------


## Dukkit

Most leg press machines you can adjust the back. If you can... lower it... that will give you more ROM and keep your back on the pad. 

Barbell hacks burn my quads like crazy without torching my back. I think youll like them. Start with low weight to get the form right, watch your back and hips.

----------


## RaginCajun

any exercises out there to help strengthen tendons and ligaments?

----------


## Dukkit

> any exercises out there to help strengthen tendons and ligaments?


Great question bro, 

Simple answer is... any strength training will have a strengthening effect on the tendons and ligaments. 

Detailed answer is... well there are many ways. 

- Progressively increasing the weight in a way that your muscle strength doesnt outgrow your tendon strength is a good way. This means no 50lb increases on the bench like we do when we're on cycle. Most injuries we bodybuilders incur are due to muscle strength increases far faster than our tendon strength. So small, progressive increases in weight is the safer way. 

- Stretching and flexibility may not directly increase tendon/ligament strength, but they will allow for greater strength gains while safe guarding against injury. So include some sort of stretching on your workout days. (post workout) (or in the case of DC training, post working set)

- If we take cues from Olympic athletes and other professional athletes... focus on compound movements as well as activities that hit multiple joints. Bodybuilding is served well by isolating muscles but its also not the best overall thing for building complete body strength as a whole. Using multiple muscles will effect multiple tendons/ligaments of course. If you think about, lets say flipping a tire... we engage, ankle joints, knee joints, hips, back, elbows, shoulders and wrists. What do you think will build better overall tendon strength, tire flipping or bicep curls? ]

- If you want to just focus on bodybuilding related training... try shortening your range of motion in order to overload the tendons while not risking injury. Shortening the range of motion will allow for greater weights used, which will place more focus on the tendons rather than muscles. For example we'll use smith flat bench. Load up over 100% of your 1RM and start at the extended point of the lift. Let the bar down 5 inches or so, lift, and perform a few reps. The idea is to progressively increase the range over time. So start with 5 inches, the next week, try 6 inches. Until you reach your chest and can press the weight back up. This will strengthen not only your tendons but also you muscles. But by not over loading the muscle by trying to do the full range of motion youll strengthen the tendons in a manner that allows for them to grow before your muscles do. 

Just few points... let me know if you have any questions.

----------


## RaginCajun

> Great question bro, 
> 
> Simple answer is... any strength training will have a strengthening effect on the tendons and ligaments. 
> 
> Detailed answer is... well there are many ways. 
> 
> - Progressively increasing the weight in a way that your muscle strength doesnt outgrow your tendon strength is a good way. This means no 50lb increases on the bench like we do when we're on cycle. Most injuries we bodybuilders incur are due to muscle strength increases far faster than our tendon strength. So small, progressive increases in weight is the safer way. 
> 
> - Stretching and flexibility may not directly increase tendon/ligament strength, but they will allow for greater strength gains while safe guarding against injury. So include some sort of stretching on your workout days. (post workout) (or in the case of DC training, post working set)
> ...



thanks dukkit. i think i understand what you are saying in that last point. i feel like i need to go back over my human anatomy and kinesiology books again to learn about 'loading' tendons. are there any programs already constructed to focus on this point of 'loading' the tendons? i appreciate your help dukkit!

----------


## Dukkit

Im not aware of any already constructed programs specifically made for tendon strength. 

But youre welcome for the insight.

----------


## BluePoker

Thanks so much for getting back to me. Means a lot that you're willing to help me out because I'm totally clueless and desperately need the help.

Why should I drop deadlift completely? I'll need to look up what rack pulls are, but I'll add those to my routine instead of the deadlifts, thanks for the advice. I wasn't able to do squats 3 times a week as you said, so I've been doing them twice a week. I'm not able to do more than a pull up or two, so I use a machine to work my upper back, so far it's the only machine I'm using. Hoping to get it to where I can do a few pull ups soon.

Here is the weights and reps for this week. I try to get it to where I am only doing reps of 5, but because my gym is not so good and I can't add small enough amounts of weight sometimes I up the rep until I can do 5 at the next weight level.

Squats: 90kgx5x3

Press: 35x3x1 30x7x2

Bench: 50x6x2 x4x1

Power clean: 40x3x1 35x7x2

Aside from this I do some curls for my biceps and the back machine. Thanks again for the help!

----------


## BluePoker

Uh just wanted to say that in my previous post I have sets and reps backwards. 

Also I think that I hadn't properly recovered from my last time power cleaning when I posted last, today I managed to 40kgs x2x5 and x1x7

----------


## Dukkit

> Thanks so much for getting back to me. Means a lot that you're willing to help me out because I'm totally clueless and desperately need the help.
> 
> Why should I drop deadlift completely? I'll need to look up what rack pulls are, but I'll add those to my routine instead of the deadlifts, thanks for the advice. I wasn't able to do squats 3 times a week as you said, so I've been doing them twice a week. I'm not able to do more than a pull up or two, so I use a machine to work my upper back, so far it's the only machine I'm using. Hoping to get it to where I can do a few pull ups soon.
> 
> Here is the weights and reps for this week. I try to get it to where I am only doing reps of 5, but because my gym is not so good and I can't add small enough amounts of weight sometimes I up the rep until I can do 5 at the next weight level.
> 
> Squats: 90kgx5x3
> 
> Press: 35x3x1 30x7x2
> ...


I suggested taking out deads due to you squatting too much. Deads dont focus on legs but they do get engaged. 
Rack pulls are just deads but with the bar at a higher starting position (on a rack) which takes away some of the movement of your legs. But still focus's on back. 

What are your goals with this regimen? Muscle mass? Fat loss? Overall fitness? 

Reps are low, which would be more of a mass amount.

----------


## Dukkit

If you cant do pull ups... do pull downs on a machine or cable.

----------


## TBrat21

So Dukkit, been focusing on my lats week in and week out. Utilizing wide grip, narrow grip, and straight arm. I feel that it may have been lack of supporting muscle strength that was the factor, my weights have skyrocketed on all lat exercises and the passed two weeks my lats have been crippled for a solid day after which is great. I was stubborn to go to high reps as you suggested, but it seemed to definitely be a key factor, hitting the 20 rep count often now with more weight than i was doing at 10-12 reps in January. Another thing that helped out quite a bit was actually was a couple weeks ago I watched a Kai Greene video, he has some very interesting theories especially the mind-muscle connection and I really have been focusing on my scapula while doing lat exercises and that seemed to help a lot too. Once again thanks for the info, lats are looking considerably better and Im loving it.





> Few points...
> -Your back is a tricky muscle group for numerous reasons. For one, its many muscles working in union. Two, you cant see it while youre working it. So youre missing some of that mind muscle connection that you have with every other muscle group. 
> -Go slower
> -Strict form = no rocking, no cheating. Lower the weight if you have to. 
> -Increase your reps. 15-20
> -You say youve focused on pinching (contracting) the muscle at the peak of the exercise... well how bout this... also focus on the stretch at the bottom of the exercise. So lets say your doing seated cable rows. Pull the weight back and when you are fully contracted, hold that position for a few seconds. Imagine your shoulders blades squeezing together and touching. Then... while you are letting your arms out in front of you to reach starting position again... go slow, round your shoulders (keeping lower back straight) let that weight PULL your lats and stretch all those muscle fibers. Imagine your lats being stretched and almost pulled under your armpits and coming around to your chest. Like spreading your wings. 
> 
> Also... are you incorporating both width and thickness movements with each workout? Pull ups and rows. Deads and straight arm lat pull downs. Like that? 
> 
> Try these suggestions bro.

----------


## BluePoker

Yes I have been doing pull downs on a machine.

I'm looking to add both muscle and mass, mostly mass.

This is more or less my first time in a gym also, so I'm also just trying to figure out how to do the lifts without hurting myself.

----------


## Dukkit

> So Dukkit, been focusing on my lats week in and week out. Utilizing wide grip, narrow grip, and straight arm. I feel that it may have been lack of supporting muscle strength that was the factor, my weights have skyrocketed on all lat exercises and the passed two weeks my lats have been crippled for a solid day after which is great. I was stubborn to go to high reps as you suggested, but it seemed to definitely be a key factor, hitting the 20 rep count often now with more weight than i was doing at 10-12 reps in January. Another thing that helped out quite a bit was actually was a couple weeks ago I watched a Kai Greene video, he has some very interesting theories especially the mind-muscle connection and I really have been focusing on my scapula while doing lat exercises and that seemed to help a lot too. Once again thanks for the info, lats are looking considerably better and Im loving it.


Great to hear bro! Keep at it. 
Once you get that mind muscle connection to a stronger level, you can lower the reps and up the weight. 
Start packing on that mass son! 
Glad I could help.

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## BluePoker

Tried the rack pull for the first time yesterday and now I understand what I should be doing that instead of deadlifts. Thanks a lot for the help.

----------


## jpowell

ok bros, gotta situation for ya. what do you guys rec for thickness. like overall. back, chest, and shape up of the muscles? pretty dumb, noob question I'm sure. but i was taking some pics to monitor my cycle, looking for gains/loses etc, but I'm to the point where i feel i don't have any mass, but people tell me all the time I'm looking good. I don't feel I'm where i need to be?!

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## Dukkit

> ok bros, gotta situation for ya. what do you guys rec for thickness. like overall. back, chest, and shape up of the muscles? pretty dumb, noob question I'm sure. but i was taking some pics to monitor my cycle, looking for gains/loses etc, but I'm to the point where i feel i don't have any mass, but people tell me all the time I'm looking good. I don't feel I'm where i need to be?!


Heavy ass slag iron man. And the main thing is... time. It takes time to build up that thick, dense, muscle. 

But train heavy, train balls to the wall, eat like an animal and cycle smart. 

That thickness will come. 

Also be sure to focus on your main lifts, Deads especially. Deads are the # thing that thickened me up everywhere. 

Squats of course. Rows, bench, clean and presses. 

Hit them hard and youll thicken up.

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## jpowell

thanks appreciate it.

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## abbot138

> ok bros, gotta situation for ya. what do you guys rec for thickness. like overall. back, chest, and shape up of the muscles? pretty dumb, noob question I'm sure. but i was taking some pics to monitor my cycle, looking for gains/loses etc, but I'm to the point where i feel i don't have any mass, but people tell me all the time I'm looking good. I don't feel I'm where i need to be?!


What Duk said  :Smilie:  You're an Ohio guy like me so I felt compelled to chime in. I know this is the Exercise Clinic, but diet is gonna be a major part of this. Heavy compund lifts are the best way to fill out your muscles. But in order to do those you need a calorie surplus. Get your minimun protein requirement, prob 1.5 grams per lb of bodyweight (more if your on aas), and then fill the rest with plenty of carbs and fats. If your body fat is somewhat in check, 13% or lower, then feel free to get a little sloppy with your carb and fat choices. Obviously you will need to mix in some complex carbs and plenty of Essential Fatty Acids, but when trying to put on size you need to find calorie dense foods......Look into a low volume high intensity workout, I prefer HIT.....And dont be afraid to do some light cardio 2 or 3 times a week for general health.

----------


## abbot138

And second of all....GIVE YOURSELF A BREAK!!! We are ALL our own worst critic. Which is good because it keeps you hungry, but its also bad bc it never allows you to enjoy the fruits of your labor. If people are telling you that you look good, say thanks man ive been workign my ass off, smile to yourself and then get back to work.....Patience is such an underestimated factor in body building. Body changes happen over the course of months and years, not days and weeks.

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## Dukkit

> And second of all....GIVE YOURSELF A BREAK!!! We are ALL our own worst critic. Which is good because it keeps you hungry, but its also bad bc it never allows you to enjoy the fruits of your labor. If people are telling you that you look good, say thanks man ive been workign my ass off, smile to yourself and then get back to work.....Patience is such an underestimated factor in body building. Body changes happen over the course of months and years, not days and weeks.


x2  :Smilie:

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## abbot138

I just noticed your post count, lol....Freakin hilarious. I remember the post whore days, it got pretty bad in there.

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## jpowell

thank you abbot. appreciate it.

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## BluePoker

Thanks for the last few posts. I'm looking to do the same thing as Jpowell and the advice given all seems really solid.

I've been working out pretty hard for 2 months now and been seeing decent results for everywhere except for my shoulders. I already posted my routine here, and looking back at my log I'm showing great improvements for squats and deadlift (now rackpull), decent results for bench press, and powerclean, but almost no results for my shoulders. I started off with my shoulders really small, and was doing press with just the bar +10 kgs. Now after two months I'm only doing the bar +15kg. I feel fairly sore in my shoulders after every time I do the press, but I'm not feeling any bigger, and I feel like I haven't added nearly as much strength in that area in comparison to the gains on the other work outs I'm doing.

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## jpowell

man shoulders r tuff. seriously for sum reson ive been doing the samw qeights on shoulders for a cpl year now. xcpt on the press machine. ive done asuch as 135 per arm for 6 reps with proper form 8 with sloppiness. but as far as raises go rear/side/front i can do the 20lb db, but nething more fpr sum reson puts too much stress n causes a pian so im scared to chance it. but i have noticed i push for more reps with 20 than i did wehn i startd so mayb thas how u can measure your progress as well?!

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## abbot138

Dont forget that there are 3 parts to a shoulder muscle, anterior, medial, posterior deltoid. And although all 3 will get worked during a press exercise, it is important to place extra focus on medial and posterior work. Anterior gets a lot of work on chest day and really on any push exercise. The biggest mistake I see people make with delts is overworking the fronts (primarily by doing too many press exercises). Stick with one Shoulder press exercise per week (3 or 4 sets) and focus the rest of your work on medial and posterior. Medial delt development will give you more width and a fuller delt all around. Strict form is a MUST on any side raise exercise and really focus on that mind muscle connection. Posterior delts are a pain in the ass for most people and very dificult to develop. I moved them to back day since they are involved in the majority of back exercises and it seemed to help. Bent over db raises are superior to reverse pec dec when it comes to posterior. As with medial work, start light and use strict form.

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## abbot138

> man shoulders r tuff. seriously for sum reson ive been doing the samw qeights on shoulders for a cpl year now. xcpt on the press machine. ive done asuch as 135 per arm for 6 reps with proper form 8 with sloppiness. but as far as raises go rear/side/front i can do the 20lb db, but nething more fpr sum reson puts too much stress n causes a pian so im scared to chance it. but i have noticed i push for more reps with 20 than i did wehn i startd so mayb thas how u can measure your progress as well?!


Nothing wrong with adding reps instead of adding weight, of course you need to move up at some point, but side and rear raises are definately two exercises that could be worked effectivey in the 12-15 range. Try doing 1 arm at a time so you can really focus on the mind muscle connection and completing each rep. Partial reps at the end when you have exhausted all your full reps will help as well.

----------


## al_capone

Great post.

----------


## bikeral

I've been on a cutting diet for past 5 weeks and am starting to think I probably should tailor my workouts to cutting. Basically try to hold on to as much LBM while I lose fat. Currently I am doing AM fasted cardio 6x week and weight training 5x week.
My split is Back/Chest/Arms/OFF/Legs/Shoulders/OFF repeat. I am currently doing 16-20 sets for major muscles and 12-14 for smaller muscles. I think I am overtraining, especially since I am cutting. Any suggestions for cutting routines?
Stats 46/211lbs/6'1"/BF18.5% probably higher

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## Dukkit

> Nothing wrong with adding reps instead of adding weight, of course you need to move up at some point, but side and rear raises are definately two exercises that could be worked effectivey in the 12-15 range. Try doing 1 arm at a time so you can really focus on the mind muscle connection and completing each rep. Partial reps at the end when you have exhausted all your full reps will help as well.



Agree.... Ive seen more results since lightening the weights and hitting more volume for shoulders. More reps, like 15-20 (personally)and few more sets. Specially for side raises and rear delts.

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## Dukkit

> I've been on a cutting diet for past 5 weeks and am starting to think I probably should tailor my workouts to cutting. Basically try to hold on to as much LBM while I lose fat. Currently I am doing AM fasted cardio 6x week and weight training 5x week.
> My split is Back/Chest/Arms/OFF/Legs/Shoulders/OFF repeat. I am currently doing 16-20 sets for major muscles and 12-14 for smaller muscles. I think I am overtraining, especially since I am cutting. Any suggestions for cutting routines?
> Stats 46/211lbs/6'1"/BF18.5% probably higher


First... what are you doing for your fasted cardio? 

Second... take an extra day off. Add shoulders to either chest or arm day. And honestly I see no reason for that many sets for smaller muscles. I do about 9-12 for smaller muscle groups when Im focusing on leaning out. 

Third.... What are your rep ranges for those sets. 8-12? 
Forth.... What are your rest periods for those sets? 

Some ppl advocate still lifting balls to the wall while cutting. I dont. I think we need to focus on fat loss and not worrying about muscle gain. Just make sure you keep your protein intake high and if you can add some AAS then you wont have to worry about catabolism while cutting. Just maintain your muscle, lose the fat.

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## bikeral

Thanks for the reply Dukkit
First fasted cardio
3x HIIT 30secs run on treadmill/90 secs slow 15 sets 30mins the 30 mins incline treadmill at 3.1MPH
3x Incline treadmill 60 mins 3.1MPH 12 incline
second Maybe Back/Chest/OFF/arms and shoulders/OFF/legs/OFF ?? reduce Bi/tri to 9-12 sets
Third Rep range usually 8-12 / every other week legs 20 rep range
Forth I try to stay focused and get it all done in an hour maybe 60 secs between sets?

I am not taking any gear at the moment but plan a bulk cycle when I get the BF in check.

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## Dukkit

> Thanks for the reply Dukkit
> First fasted cardio
> 3x HIIT 30secs run on treadmill/90 secs slow 15 sets 30mins the 30 mins incline treadmill at 3.1MPH
> 3x Incline treadmill 60 mins 3.1MPH 12 incline
> second Maybe Back/Chest/OFF/arms and shoulders/OFF/legs/OFF ?? reduce Bi/tri to 9-12 sets
> Third Rep range usually 8-12 / every other week legs 20 rep range
> Forth I try to stay focused and get it all done in an hour maybe 60 secs between sets?
> 
> I am not taking any gear at the moment but plan a bulk cycle when I get the BF in check.


How does the HIT cardio feel, doing it that long? I tend not to let ppl do HIT that long. HIT is great for fat loss but theres a fine line with HIT where I feel it can cause catabolism by getting your heart rate up too high. Anyone I tell to do HIT, I only recommend 15-20 mins of it. I mean if your run is all out for that 30secs then thats a lot of running over 30 mins. Youre going for fat loss. Not endurance. 

Unless youre used to it of course. Everyone is different. Just not what I would recommend. 

Are you watching your heart rate during your walking on the treadmill? Keeping it in fat loss range? Not going anaerobic?

I like your leg rep range and switching it up. 

And your rest range is good. I shorten my rest periods while leaning out to 45-60 secs. When bulking I may do 2-3 min rests. 

Are you using any other supps for fat loss? Clen , ECA, green tea extract, etc?

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## Dukkit

Dont be afraid to hit 12-15 reps too. You can still keep the weight at something that gets you to failure at rep 15.

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## bikeral

Actually just started the HIIT this week and it totally kicked my ass. I am totally drained. Maybe I should cut down to 15-20 mins next week.
If the heart monitor works on the treadmill I watch it. Should I get one of those heart monitor watches? Been thinking about it.
I did 2 weeks clen . Now I am off for 2 weeks. Have not tried ECA or green tea extract, do you recommend?
I will play with the reps as well. Thinking maybe dif routine might be better then the one I previously posted.
Maybe 
Chest/Bi
Back/tri
OFF
Legs
Shoulders/abs
OFF
If I go to 4 day any suggestions?

Thanks again
OFF

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## Dukkit

Def cut back on the HITT since you just started it. HIT is something most have to work at progressing in. Once it gets easier you lengthen the running/sprint phase and shorten the rest/walking phase. 

I recommend green tea extract. Its one thing I basically run all year around. I feel it helps keep my metabolism running as well its a great anti-oxidant. Its like 4 bucks a bottle at Wal Mart. Its so cheap... why not run it. 

Eca is also a great booster if you get sick of Clen . Some cycle it on the days off from clen too. 

As for your routine.... I do prefer arms on their own day. Then they get extra light work with the chest and back days. But try splitting arms up and see how you like it. Thats how I ran it back when I first started working out. Worked well for awhile. 

I also prefer to do legs first thing in the week. One... I just want them done and over with. lol. Two... the legs are your largest muscle group. Muscles being worked, cause your body to release hormones like Gh and such. So getting that release early in the week, then working the rest of the muscles, lets those muscles take advantage of those hormones. Now this is more "bro science" But I do feel it has worked for me. If you like legs where they are... so be it. 

Other than that... your split works.

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## bikeral

OK,I'll try to workout a 4-day split starting wit legs. 
Thanks for the help.

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## BluePoker

Thanks for the help with the shoulders. I had no idea about the 3 parts so will need to look that up after this post and try to put what you said to practice. Thanks for all the help in this thread, pretty awesome that people are willing to help like this.

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