# STEROIDS FORUM > SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators) Information Forum >  Anyone Use SARM?

## Razzberry

They're tablets, and legal.

http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/con...en.2005-0572v1

Endocrinology, doi:10.1210/en.2005-0572
A more recent version of this article appeared on November 1, 2005

Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator (SARM) Treatment Improves Muscle Strength and Body Composition, and Prevents Bone Loss in Orchidectomized Rats
Wenqing Gao, Peter J. Reiser, Christopher C. Coss, Mitch A. Phelps, Jeffrey D. Kearbey, Duane D. Miller, and James T. Dalton*

Division of Pharmaceutics, College of Pharmacy, Department of Oral Biology, College of Dentistry, The Ohio State University, Columbus, OH 43210; Department of Pharmaceutical Sciences, College of Pharmacy, University of Tennessee, Memphis, TN 38163

* To whom correspondence should be addressed. E-mail: 

The partial agonist activity of a selective androgen receptor modulator (SARM) in the prostate was demonstrated in our previous study (Endocrinology 145(12):5420-28, 2004). In the current study, we characterized the full agonist activity of S-3-(4-acetylamino-phenoxy)-2-hydroxy-2-methyl-N-(4-nitro-3-trifluoromethyl-phenyl)-propionamide (a structurally related SARM referred to in other publications and hereafter as S-4) in skeletal muscle, bone and pituitary of castrated male rats. Twelve weeks after castration, animals were treated with S-4 (3 or 10 mg/kg), dihydrotestosterone (DHT) (3 mg/kg), or vehicle for 8 weeks. S-4 (3 and 10 mg/kg) restored soleus muscle mass and strength and levator ani muscle mass to that seen in intact animals. Similar changes were also observed in DHT (3 mg/kg) treated animals. Compared with the anabolic effects observed in muscle, DHT (3 mg/kg) stimulated prostate and seminal vesicle weights over 2-fold greater than that observed in intact controls, while S-4 (3 mg/kg) returned these androgenic organs to only 16% and 17%, respectively, of the control levels. S-4 (3, 10 mg/kg) and DHT (3 mg/kg) restored castration-induced loss in lean body mass. Furthermore, S-4 treatment caused a significantly larger increase in total body bone mineral density (BMD) than DHT. S-4 (3 and 10 mg/kg) also demonstrated agonist activity in the pituitary, and significantly decreased plasma LH and FSH levels in castrated animals in a dose dependent manner. In summary, the strong anabolic effects of S-4 in skeletal muscle, bone, and pituitary were achieved with minimal pharmacologic effect in the prostate. The tissue selective pharmacologic activity of SARMs provides obvious advantages over steroidal androgen therapy and demonstrates the promising therapeutic utility that this new class of drugs may hold.

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## NightWolf

Ya i have used them, good stuff

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## Gears

If it's legal, where do you guys get this stuff?

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## jnewton86

what? i find it hard to believe this stuff is available to anyone at the moment. I know my people cant get any of it yet.

if you've taken it, share your thoughts on it with us, how did it compare

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## g0dsend

It is avail, I received about 2 bottles of it about a month ago for my PCT.

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## NightWolf

> what? i find it hard to believe this stuff is available to anyone at the moment. I know my people cant get any of it yet.
> 
> if you've taken it, share your thoughts on it with us, how did it compare



What exactly do you want to know?
IMO it does not compare to test in
the ways of quik or big gains, you
have to remember that this stuff
does not give you water as test
does so the gains are more quality.

Also it does not shut down your HPTA
or atleast i did not feel supressed in any way.
Also IMO it takes a bit longer for this stuff
to show its true effect, most guys have run this 
for 3-5 weeks, for me i was still seeing
improvments in the mirror by the end of week 4.

Also i did not feel anything with the libido until
end of week 4, then it went thru the roof.

Only side effect i feelt was the vision thing
wich came in at week 2, when you enter
a dark room its takes more time for your
eyes to adjust.

if anyone has questions about this stuff
just ask and i will answer from my own experience.

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## jnewton86

interesting, i thought it would be awhile before anyone could get a hold of this stuff, thanks for your feedback man. not looking for anything specific, just wanted to see what you thought about it compared to test and others. 

thanx man

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## NightWolf

Forgot to add that i went up about
5 lbs in those 4 weeks, wich is alot
if you consider that there is no aromatize involved.

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## Rugger02

So no PCT? how long to you take it or do you cruise with it?

Gotta be spendy don't it?

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## NightWolf

> So no PCT? how long to you take it or do you cruise with it?
> 
> Gotta be spendy don't it?


No PCT is needed, it whould 
be great for cruising.

Actually its not so costly,
look at it this way, you save money 
from the cost of

Syringes (you drink it)
PCT 
HCG

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## briancb1

whats the name of the sarm? where is it available?

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## Razzberry

SARM-X is one brand.

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## Dog-Slime

> SARM-X is one brand.


That is an herbal supplement and has nothing to do with the sarms being discussed here.

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## Dog-Slime

S4 is the only sarm I have seen around...

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## ironaddict69

Very interesting stuff. Just to be clear, are they prescription drugs? I have a hard time believing it is over the counter stuff...Will they be sold through research chem sites or what?

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## Razzberry

> That is an herbal supplement and has nothing to do with the sarms being discussed here.


Sorry, you are correct.

I just checked my bookmarked pages and that was DHEA along with something else.

I do have the raw truth somewhere, and just need to find it. There was an amazing post on another forum that talked about a legal source (it's not really regulated AFAIK now) and the effects of a month of usage - yellow vision, things like that.

The vision problems were very bizarre and pronounced, but other than that, no sides according to the man.

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## bigD103

so where exactly do u get this stuff...a posting or a pm would be great fellas

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## Juice Authority

> If it's legal, where do you guys get this stuff?



To my knowledge there is only 1 distributor of SARMs (SARMs is still in clinical trials so its perfectly legal to possess before it eventually gets FDA approved and then controlled and likely scheduled). I love it. No bloat, incredible strength gains comparable to dbol , increased libido, and lean gains. The only downside IMO is vision blurriness but its manageable.

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## Phate

> so where exactly do u get this stuff...a posting or a pm would be great fellas


can't ask for sources bro, read the rules

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## Severe

This stuff is seeming promising. I need to do a lot more research before I try it but so far so good.

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## mr.scientist

links to more SARM research, lol MHP has a product called SARMs , S4 any more ppl know of?

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## mr.scientist

From wikipedia




> None of the SARMs yet developed are truly selective for anabolic effects in muscle or bone tissues without producing any androgenic effects in tissues such as the prostate gland, however the compounds tested so far show a ratio of anabolic to androgenic effects of at* least 3:1 and even up to as much as 10:1, whereas all known anabolic steroids have a ratio of around 1:1.*[1][2][3]
> 
> This suggests that while SARMs are likely to show some virilizing effects when used at high doses (e.g. recreational abuse by bodybuilders), at lower therapeutic doses they may well be effectively selective for anabolic effects, which will be important if SARMs are to have clinical application in the treatment of osteoporosis in women. One substantial advantage of even the first-generation SARMs developed to date is that they are all o*rally active without causing liver damage*, whereas most anabolic steroids are not active orally and must be injected, and those anabolic steroids which are orally active tend to cause dose-dependent liver damage which can become life-threatening with excessive use. Research is continuing into more potent and selective SARMs, as well as optimising characteristics such as oral bioavailability and increased half-life in vivo, and seeing as the first tissue-selective SARMs were only demonstrated in 2003, the compounds tested so far represent only the *first generation of SARMs and future development is likely to produce greatly superior agents compared to those available at present.*


sounds like everyone might be on these in the future, only thing I think might be a problem are the sides of eye sight, which would blow!

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## smartbodybuilder

do u guys know when Gtx gona send Ostarine to the legal market?

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## Rugger02

Are the eye sight sides temporary, only while you're using?
Do they go away immediately ceasing use?

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## Dog-Slime

> Are the eye sight sides temporary, only while you're using?
> Do they go away immediately ceasing use?


Not speaking from experience but I have read of guys saying the vision problems go away quickly and are not permanent.

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## ironaddict69

More like, when the **** can we buy it and where?

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## Deltasaurus

yeah if its legal you can discuss it,

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## AnabolicBoy1981

The vision thing worries me. Im excited but at the same time a little cautious. Hell i thought cabergoline was the best thing ever....and then they find that it can cause heart valve growth. Even if it was at higher doses, studies are done with sedentary people, not people who test make their heart work all the time. NEW stuff must be dealt with carefully.
Nolva and clomid, SERMS have both been shown to be cause ocular toxicity. Interesting these SARMS do the same thing. There must be a reason for this.

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## 0tolerance

interesting quote i found on another website 


> Despite how safe Ostarine is I'm absolutely certain it will be a scheduled drug by the time it is released which should be within a year or two. Either way GTx is certain to make a huge amount of money off of it. It is possible to buy Ostarine, however you have to buy it from GTx and you must be able to bluff you way through the process of buying it as someone with a legitimate research use. To say the least it is not easy to get your hands on any.

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## Mr.TrX

wow you can buy this stuff at gnc no joke just saw it today

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## Pac Man

> wow you can buy this stuff at gnc no joke just saw it today


That would be Sarm X, just a knock off

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## IM708

> wow you can buy this stuff at gnc no joke just saw it today


 no you can't :Chairshot:

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## NightWolf

> Are the eye sight sides temporary, only while you're using?
> Do they go away immediately ceasing use?



Yes for me they went away about 3 days after i stopped.

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## kaisteel1

*Please read the rules before you post again.
Big*

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## Phate

> I don't think this post should be a problem as they are still legal?


ummmm....no, it is illegal, plus good luck with a source, most places i know you need a referral

i should clarity my post, SARMs are not legal nor illegal really, as they are unscheduled yet, i was referring to your post being illegal on this forum

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## Indymuscleguy

I'd like to know more! Makes PCT sound more like a dream rather than a chore!

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## Marinos

Does this need to be refrigerated or something? If I am able to find an overseas source, would it still be good to use by the time it was shipped to Australia?

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## Phate

> Does this need to be refrigerated or something? If I am able to find an overseas source, would it still be good to use by the time it was shipped to Australia?


no to the refrigeration and yes to the other question

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## chucklesmcgee

> do u guys know when Gtx gona send Ostarine to the legal market?


Probably after positive phase III trials conclude and they submit the final paperwork. So maybe sometime in 2010-2011 you'll be able to get 3 mgs a day for grandma.

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## Lightsout2184

> ummmm....no, it is illegal, plus good luck with a source, most places i know you need a referral
> 
> i should clarity my post, SARMs are not legal nor illegal really, as they are unscheduled yet, i was referring to your post being illegal on this forum


phate something is either legal or illegal. if i got caught with it i either get in trouble or i dont. if it isnt illegal then you could ask for a source. people ask for where to buy supplements and other products all the time and its allowed as long as its not illegal.

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## d-red

> phate something is either legal or illegal. if i got caught with it i either get in trouble or i dont. if it isnt illegal then you could ask for a source. people ask for where to buy supplements and other products all the time and its allowed as long as its not illegal.


it is borderline..legal/illegal

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## Lightsout2184

> it is borderline..legal/illegal


makes no sense if i get pulled over transporting it im either arrested or im not. a judge either finds me guilty or not guilty.

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## d-red

> makes no sense if i get pulled over transporting it im either arrested or im not. a judge either finds me guilty or not guilty.


lol..ok..the judge would find you not guilty. its lega.

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## Juice Authority

> makes no sense if i get pulled over transporting it im either arrested or im not. a judge either finds me guilty or not guilty.


It makes perfect sense. The drug in Phase II clinical trials, which means it will be *SEVERAL* more years before it gets the FDA rubber stamp of approval. As such, it is NOT a controlled substance. It is not even recognized as a Therapeutic by the FDA. It hasn't even made the Olympic banned list yet. You can't schedule something that is not recognized as a drug. 

http://www.gtxinc.com/Pipeline/Ostar...866.aspx?Sid=4

In October 2008, GTx announced topline results of the Phase II trial evaluating Ostarine in patients with cancer cachexia. The clinical trial enrolled 159 cancer patients (average age of 66 years) with non-small cell lung cancer, colorectal cancer, non-Hodgkin lymphoma, chronic lymphocytic leukemia or breast cancer at 35 sites in the U.S. and Argentina. Participants were randomized to receive placebo, 1 mg or 3 mg oral capsule of Ostarine once daily for 16 weeks. Average reported weight loss prior to entry among all subjects was 8.8%. Subjects were allowed to have standard chemotherapy during the trial. 


The study met its primary endpoint of absolute change in total lean body mass (muscle) compared to placebo and the secondary endpoint of muscle function (performance). The incidence of serious adverse events, deaths and tumor progression were similar among placebo and the treatment arms. The most common side effects reported among all subjects in the trial were fatigue, anemia, nausea and diarrhea.

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## chucklesmcgee

> It makes perfect sense. The drug in Phase II clinical trials, which means it will be *SEVERAL* more years before it gets the FDA rubber stamp of approval. As such, it is NOT a controlled substance. It is not even recognized as a Therapeutic by the FDA. It hasn't even made the Olympic banned list yet. You can't schedule something that is not recognized as a drug. 
> 
> http://www.gtxinc.com/Pipeline/Ostar...866.aspx?Sid=4
> 
> In October 2008, GTx announced topline results of the Phase II trial evaluating Ostarine in patients with cancer cachexia. The clinical trial enrolled 159 cancer patients (average age of 66 years) with non-small cell lung cancer, colorectal cancer, non-Hodgkin lymphoma, chronic lymphocytic leukemia or breast cancer at 35 sites in the U.S. and Argentina. Participants were randomized to receive placebo, 1 mg or 3 mg oral capsule of Ostarine once daily for 16 weeks. Average reported weight loss prior to entry among all subjects was 8.8%. Subjects were allowed to have standard chemotherapy during the trial. 
> 
> 
> The study met its primary endpoint of absolute change in total lean body mass (muscle) compared to placebo and the secondary endpoint of muscle function (performance). The incidence of serious adverse events, deaths and tumor progression were similar among placebo and the treatment arms. The most common side effects reported among all subjects in the trial were fatigue, anemia, nausea and diarrhea.


You're right on everything except the Olympic part. SARMs are on WADA's prohibited list.

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## Juice Authority

> You're right on everything except the Olympic part. SARMs are on WADA's prohibited list.


I wasn't aware of that. It must have been a recent development.

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## chucklesmcgee

> I wasn't aware of that. It must have been a recent development.


I think it was just announced for 2009.

http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/d...20_Sept_08.pdf

"Section S1:
2. Other Anabolic Agents, including but not limited to:
Clenbuterol , selective androgen receptor modulators (SARMs ), tibolone, zeranol, zilpaterol."

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## gymnutt

It's perfectly legal....for your rats if you have a licensed research facility.

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## John88Test

My research facility just got two bottles. My rat starts preliminary trials on Monday. Will keep you updated.

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## Juice Authority

> It's perfectly legal....for your rats if you have a licensed research facility.


LOL. True.

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## powerliftmike

> if it isnt illegal then you could ask for a source.


No, because the sources out there right now are not _just_ selling s4, if you know what im getting at...

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## powerliftmike

> SARMs are on WADA's prohibited list.


Too bad for WADA it cant be tested for yet  :Wink/Grin:

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## BJJ

> Probably after positive phase III trials conclude and they submit the final paperwork. So maybe sometime in 2010-2011 you'll be able to get 3 mgs a day for grandma.


To be more specific, it should be by the end of 2011.
Surely not beyond that year without behoof.

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## xnotoriousx

i'd like to try it, sounds great.

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## CheddaNips

s4 is great. It is very limited on who has it but if you have any rep on other sites there are bros selling it. Vision blurry-ness goes away real quick.

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