# FITNESS and NUTRITION FORUM > WORKOUT AND TRAINING >  whats best to hit side delts...help cant get them sore!!!

## sted ed

my side delts are laging big time... whats best to hit the side delts.

what do the below movements work? front/side/rear?

upright rows?
db shoulder press?
military press?
behind neck bb press?

i can never ever get my side delts sore!!! can get them a little pumped but thats about it

upright rows 3 sets 8-10 reps
side raises and front 3 sets of each 8-10 reps
military press 3 sets 8-12 reps

?

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## stevey_6t9

> my side delts are laging big time... whats best to hit the side delts.
> 
> what do the below movements work? front/side/rear?
> 
> upright rows?
> db shoulder press?
> military press?
> behind neck bb press?
> 
> ...


those following movements work mainly the anterior and lateral deltoid. try side dumbell raises, side cable raises, lying side cable raises. remember there not exercises to go extremely heavy on, try focus on good form

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## ranging1

muscle sorenness is not an indicator of muscle growth, so just becuase they dotn hurt doesnt mean anything

as for side deltoids, they are a very small muscle group

3-4 sets of upright rows, and 2 sets of side raises or 2 sets of machine lateral raises is all it requires ot stimulate alot fo growth in them

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## sted ed

ok guys how does this sound then for shoulders

3 sets of db press. front delts
4 sets of side raises. side delts
3 sets of up right rows grip shoulder width? side delts
3 sets of bent over raises rear delts.

does military press.
db press.
behine neck bb press
all work the same part of the shoulders?

oh and i have no access to cables ect as i do it at home.

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## F4iGuy

That would be overtraining for me. I prefer 10 sets but then again I train with more intensity than most people I see. 

4 sets barbell shoulder press
3 sets side laterals
3 sets reverse fly/bent db raises.

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## ranging1

> ok guys how does this sound then for shoulders
> 
> 3 sets of db press. front delts
> 4 sets of side raises. side delts
> 3 sets of up right rows grip shoulder width? side delts
> 3 sets of bent over raises rear delts.
> 
> does military press.
> db press.
> ...


still to much IMO, u dont need 4 sets of side raises, 2 is enough




> That would be overtraining for me. I prefer 10 sets but then again I train with more intensity than most people I see. 
> 
> 4 sets barbell shoulder press
> 3 sets side laterals
> 3 sets reverse fly/bent db raises.


^^^^ this is a good workout

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## MuscleScience

As others have said, soreness is not a good indicator of an effective workout. The shoulders are a relatively small muscle group and do not need the kind of volume that the legs or back need. With shoulders less is more pick a few good exercises with proper form and that should be enough.

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## kalspic

> As others have said, soreness is not a good indicator of an effective workout. The shoulders are a relatively small muscle group and do not need the kind of volume that the legs or back need. With shoulders less is more pick a few good exercises *with proper form* and that should be enough.


very important imo. drop the ego and lower the weight.

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## sted ed

ok...

so is military press the same as barbell shoulder press?

on all my workouts i do the same thing. keep adding weight example bench press 1st set 70kg 10 reps, 2nd set 80kg 8reps, 3rd set 90kg 6 reps. so i do this with every workout every bodypart.. is this the standard way yes?

i see people lift like this... start at the highest weight min 6 reps then take weight off every set then last set will be like 12 reps???

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## ranging1

> ok...
> 
> so is military press the same as barbell shoulder press?
> 
> on all my workouts i do the same thing. keep adding weight example bench press 1st set 70kg 10 reps, 2nd set 80kg 8reps, 3rd set 90kg 6 reps. so i do this with every workout every bodypart.. is this the standard way yes?
> 
> i see people lift like this... start at the highest weight min 6 reps then take weight off every set then last set will be like 12 reps???


yes military press is the same

the way u train i okay, what your doing is called scaling, or scaled pyramids

meaning u build up the weight progressivaly, as u increase weight u decrease reps

i personaly dont like scale pyramiding since its not as effective as reverse pyramiding for strength and muscle growth commanly (starting off with heavy weight low reps, then going down weight with higher reps)

this is becuase lower rep ranges like 6-8 are usually better for strength and size

also since in the begging of your workout your always at your strongest, and as a workout goes on you beocme tiered, fatigued and your muscles weaken

so the best time to lift the heaviest weight is in the start of your workout becuase this is the time when you can lift the most

the more you lift, the more likely your gonna grow or get stronger in the next workout

it makes sense why start off training with lighter weight if you can lift heavier in the start?

try training begining wiht heavier weight first, and lowering the weight as the workout goes on

e.g for chest

1-2 warm up sets bench press, 100kg 8-10 reps
then 1 warm up set for ur tricep, e.g one arm over head dumbell extensions 15kg 8-10 reps

then
set 1: 160kg 4-5 reps
rest 2-3 mintutes
set 2: 150kg 6-8 reps
rest 2-3 minutes
set 3: 140kg 10 reps

and try a similar fashion for the rest of ur exercises

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## DangerDave

Personally I prefer to start with my heaviest weight. Believe I got this notion from slingshot training - reverse pyramid, tks Ronnie. tear as many fibres as you can while you at your freshest and strongest. But AMPLE warming up though to avoid injury. 

But this is jmo. For each their own.

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## sted ed

> yes military press is the same
> 
> the way u train i okay, what your doing is called scaling, or scaled pyramids
> 
> meaning u build up the weight progressivaly, as u increase weight u decrease reps
> 
> i personaly dont like scale pyramiding since its not as effective as reverse pyramiding for strength and muscle growth commanly (starting off with heavy weight low reps, then going down weight with higher reps)
> 
> this is becuase lower rep ranges like 6-8 are usually better for strength and size
> ...




thanks alot for all that info mate cant wait to try it out tomz on my chest day... i bet after me doing the same thing for years and changing to the way you said my body should get a shock and start to grow again i hope...

is reverse pyramiding also called dropsets? i always see people when puting up there workout says dropset.

and should i go to fail on all sets?

oh and just 1 last question about warming up

should i do 1 warm up set for chest or do you do a warm up for each muscle part upper middle and lower chest... also like shoulders 1 warm up for side delt and 1 for front delt and 1 for rear delts?

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## sted ed

oh and just another question..
do you think this is a good idea? pyramiding down for 4 weeks then pyramiding up for for 4 weeks and go back to pyramiding down then up ect ect?

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## amcon

> my side delts are laging big time... whats best to hit the side delts.
> 
> what do the below movements work? front/side/rear?
> 
> upright rows?
> db shoulder press?
> military press?
> behind neck bb press?
> 
> ...


here is the deal you dont need to hurt them or make them soar to get them to grow ...

you need to get them pumped...

if you want them soar do 20 sets of the same movement ... that will def make them soar...

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## DangerDave

> thanks alot for all that info mate cant wait to try it out tomz on my chest day... i bet after me doing the same thing for years and changing to the way you said my body should get a shock and start to grow again i hope...
> 
> is reverse pyramiding also called dropsets? i always see people when puting up there workout says dropset.
> 
> and should i go to fail on all sets?
> 
> oh and just 1 last question about warming up
> 
> should i do 1 warm up set for chest or do you do a warm up for each muscle part upper middle and lower chest... also like shoulders 1 warm up for side delt and 1 for front delt and 1 for rear delts?


No, reverse pyramiding refers to beginning with the heaviest weight and and going lighter to maintain reps. So *instead* of benching 80kgs for 10 the 90kgs for 8 then 100kgs for 6, reverse pyramid would be warming up *properly* and then beginning with your heaviest weight. So begin with 100kgs for 6 then drop or maintain weight and reps.

A drop set is when you say crank out say 10 reps and then immediately drop the weight and pump out a few more reps without resting.

You gotto learn your body and which weight you're comfortable with. Try go for 'good' failure but not for everything, depends on muscle group etc. 

Warming up is really important if you going to reverse pyramid. For chest for example I would do 2 to 3 warm up sets on far lower but progressing weight. If you dont warm up you could likely pick up an injury.

I always warm up my rotator cuffs when I do anything upper body and for shoulders i do warm up all heads.
Hope this helps

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## DangerDave

lol sorry ranging, see you got this covered. really bad connection where I am right now

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## sted ed

cheers mate what about the 4 week up 4 weeks down question?

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## Ronnie Rowland

> That would be overtraining for me. I prefer 10 sets but then again I train with more intensity than most people I see. 
> 
> 4 sets barbell shoulder press
> 3 sets side laterals
> 3 sets reverse fly/bent db raises.


This is the exact routine I use when trying to put on mass!

The shoulders are hard to make sore so I woud not worry about that. Train with great intensity and focus on getting a pump! The biggest mistake I see being made in gyms is using poor form and throwing around too much weight when doing side lateral raises. People look like a baby bird trying to learn how to fly as opposed to lifting the weight smoothly.

I find leaning one arm laterals best for hitting the side deltiods and taking the traps out of the movement.

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## ranging1

> thanks alot for all that info mate cant wait to try it out tomz on my chest day... i bet after me doing the same thing for years and changing to the way you said my body should get a shock and start to grow again i hope...
> 
> is reverse pyramiding also called dropsets? i always see people when puting up there workout says dropset.
> 
> and should i go to fail on all sets?
> 
> oh and just 1 last question about warming up
> 
> should i do 1 warm up set for chest or do you do a warm up for each muscle part upper middle and lower chest... also like shoulders 1 warm up for side delt and 1 for front delt and 1 for rear delts?


no reverse pyramiding isnt a drop set

as i explain a reverse pyramid is just starting off heavy with low reps for first set, and as the next sets go on you lower the weight and increase the reps, (look at the emaple i provided you)

a drop set is 2 sets of the same exercise back to back with no rest, e.g you bench 160kg for 5 reps, then take off 20kg and do another 5-6 reps straight away without a break




> oh and just another question..
> do you think this is a good idea? pyramiding down for 4 weeks then pyramiding up for for 4 weeks and go back to pyramiding down then up ect ect?


i personaly always reverse pyramid, i NEVER start off lighter weight and then build up to heavy, its never worked for me, you can try it if you wish but if you find again ur results are slwoing then you prob should just reverse pyramid




> lol sorry ranging, see you got this covered. really bad connection where I am right now


lmfao np man all good




> This is the exact routine I use when trying to put on mass!
> 
> The shoulders are hard to make sore so I woud not worry about that. Train with great intensity and focus on getting a pump! *The biggest mistake I see being made in gyms is using poor form and throwing around too much weight when doing side lateral raises*. People look like a baby bird trying to learn how to fly as opposed to lifting the weight smoothly.
> 
> I find leaning one arm laterals best for hitting the side deltiods and taking the traps out of the movement.


very true,

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## sted ed

thanks guys..

do you think doing 4 weeks pryramiding down then 4 weeks up then back down, so changing it every 4 weeks to down then up is a good idea?

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## Machdiesel

Behind the neck Military nails the sides like crazy. Make sure not to go too far back , make ur arms on the same plane as you torso, done put them to far back and put strain on your shoulder ligaments.

I.e both arms are on the same same plane and you can draw a straight line from elbow to elbow, dont push them back to far thats how you get hurt

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## MONEY AND MASS

my delts never get sore

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## dangerous dan

> *muscle sorenness is not an indicator of muscle growth, so just becuase they dotn hurt doesnt mean anything*
> 
> as for side deltoids, they are a very small muscle group
> 
> 3-4 sets of upright rows, and 2 sets of side raises or 2 sets of machine lateral raises is all it requires ot stimulate alot fo growth in them


Thankyou ranging...the amount of times i hear people on her say ''why cant i get this and that sore'' is unreal....

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