# FITNESS and NUTRITION FORUM > SUPPLEMENTS >  T3: A complete guide to cycling T3 and how it works

## austinite

*Introduction*

There was a member earlier that was looking for a detailed T3 thread. We certainly have quite a few, but since this is one of my favorite compounds, I figured I'd post my thoughts on it and add it to the collection. My experience has only been with T3. I've had a short run with T4, and while I can tell you about it, my experience is very limited with T4. So I'll stick to T3. In order to understand what T3 does for us and how it works, we'll need to understand how the thyroid actually works. So that's where we're going to start. 


*Explanation of the Thyroid Gland*

The thyroid gland sits in your neck just under the vocal cords and above your windpipe. So basically immediately below the "Adam's Apple" in your neck. Thyroid gland is part of your endocrine system. Recently, in my never ending search for vitamin D deficiency, I was led to the thyroid and had the pleasure of learning a whole lot about it. So let's get into its function...

The main purpose of this gland is to produce triiodothyronine (T3), thyroxine (T4) and Calcitonin (CT) hormones. It first collects both Iodine & Tyrosine (amino acid) from the bloodstream in order to produce the hormones. T3 & T4 are then delivered to just about every part of your body. Muscles, kidneys, liver, heart, brain, etc.. all get these hormones once they're pumped into the bloodstream by the thyroid gland. Your thyroid is the only gland that can make use of iodine. 

The hypothalamus gland in your brain is the Big Boss of the operation. This is where metabolism function starts. When your thyroid hormone levels become low, the hypothalamus sends a message to the pituitary gland. This message is a hormone called 'thyrotropin releasing hormone' (TRH). The thyroid gland basically takes orders from _its_ boss, the pituitary. When the pituitary receives the message that there is not enough T3 circulating in the blood, it sends a message to the thyroid gland that says "Crank up the heat!". This "message" is called the 'thyroid stimulating hormone' (TSH). It's actions are exactly what its name suggests, it stimulates your thyroid hormone production so that T3 and T4 are pumped out. And the opposite happens when there is too much thyroid hormones, where the pituitary slowly reduces how many messages (TSH) it sends until your levels stabilize again. So when you introduce exogenous T3, the messages slow down to a halt, and natural production stops. That's called Thyroid Shutdown. We'll get into that later...

When we reference T3 and T4, the "T" stands for Thyroid, and the numbers 3 and 4 represent the number of iodine molecules attached. The purpose of T3 & T4 is carry oxygen to various cells in the body for energy. Just about every cell in our bodies. This is why it's considered our metabolism regulator. It controls how much energy the cells in our bodies have and controls your body's temperature. The more you have, the more energy you have. Low T3 would cause fatigue and other issues. The gland produces much more T4 than T3, about 80% of production is T4. However, we can't utilize T4, so that 80% that was produced, is converted into T3 so that we can actually make use of it. This conversion happens in the liver by removing 1 molecule, so T4 minus 1 iodine molecule = T3. 

So that's T3 and T4, but what about CT, or Calcitonin? In most cases you never have too worry about this one (I'm the only one on earth that has to, I think. ugh). Calcitonin basically counters over production by parathyroid. Parathyroid produced calcium, and when there's too much, Calcitonin works to give your body a balance. 


*What Happens When I Supplement With T3 or T4*

As mentioned earlier, my experience is limited with T4. But I'll give you a general idea about it. T4 is converted in your liver into T3. You've seen these pills/liquids dosed in Micrograms. But 100 micrograms of T3 does not equal 100 micrograms of T4. The amount is tremendously reduced after conversion. So 100 mcg of T4 results in about 25 mcg of T3. So if I wanted to get 50 mcg of T3, but I only have T4 pills, I would have to take 200 mcg of T4. But even that calculation isn't spot on, because remember, not 100% of T4 is converted by the liver. So in fact, even more than 200mcg of T4 would be required to produce 50mcg of T3. 

*So how much T3 total does your body naturally produce?* We've already established that when you supplement with T3 or T4, your pituitary begins to see the exogenous doses and shuts down production. You naturally produce approximately 25 micrograms of T3. So since we know that any oral administration of T3 is a replacement dose (meaning shuts you down), would it make sense to take 25 mcg of T3? Of course not! What's the point of replacing exactly what I produce? That would be a complete waste. Honestly, in my opinion, I think it's even a waste to start at that dose. I know some folks like to "ramp up" the dose. But it's not necessary.

The absolute minimum dose of T3 should be 40 mcg. *I recommend a starting dose of 50 mcg*; double what you normally produce. 

When you use T3, you're basically creating the effect of an overactive thyroid. This will inevitably increase your serum levels, increase your metabolism and increase your body temperature. Since T3 reaches almost every cell and tissue in the body, that means it's affecting everything. Your body is in an unnatural state and overly active. So if there's a lot of energy for burning, it will utilize both fat and muscle. So yes, you will burn muscle while on T3 because it's not very picky as far as what it burns. This is the case naturally with folks who have hyperthyroidism. But I have a solution coming up...


*How To Stave Off Muscle Waste from T3*

Lot's of folks have looked at Clenbuterol , Albuterol and other similar compounds for their supposed anti-catabolic properties, to create a balance. Forget about all of that. They will not suffice and you're wasting your time. T3 will over power just about anything you're thinking of, except for steroids . So an attempt at running T3 alone would be detrimental to your muscle-tissue-retention ability.

Anabolic steroids will help stave off muscle waste. The problem is finding the right dose. Not all bodies have similar response, so the amounts would vary per individual. However, I've found that 250 to 350 mg of testosterone or equivalent of another compound, is enough to save your precious muscle tissue. Since Testosterone does not affect fat the same way it does muscle, you'll end up burning fat at a higher rate than you normally would, had you not introduced T3. So as a rule, I will say that *T3 should never be used without a muscle-saving-dose of steroids*. 

Testosterone and other steroids when dosed right, will stimulate the muscle and speed up recovery at a faster rate than normal. You can expect that steroids are far more powerful at building, than T3 is at wasting. So although you will experience some counter-production, in my case, it's been quite negligible. And this is experimentation over the years while observing bod pod assessments to determine exact lean mass and body fat percentages. When I used to run bulking cycles, T3 was a must for me. I know many use it for cutting cycles to shed weight, but it can be a very powerful tool for your bulking cycle so that you minimize the chance of fat cells increasing in size. 


*How To Cycle With T3 On Board*

To be quite honest, with T3, I don't ever pyramid or taper doses. I choose a dose, then I start and finish with the same dose. That being said, it takes a few trials and errors to find the sweet spot for T3. So it wouldn't hurt to start at 50 mcg to see if you get a good response. Increases would be ok to do in 20 to 25 mcg increments. But again, I never do. T3 is not like some other compounds that hit you in the face with side effects if you dose it a little off. 

There's rarely a need to go over 100 mcg. I've done it, and many others have as well. But remember, that the more you use, the more you'll need to increase your steroid dose to protect your muscles. So don't get carried away with your doses. The highest I've done is not relevant to you as we've already mentioned individualism. So please don't ask because I won't tell. The point is, there is no need to go over 100 mcg. 

If it's your first time with T3. Just start at 50 mcg daily. An ideal dose for most everyone after that first cycle is 75 mcg. That is 3 times what you normally produce. More than plenty to do the job. Once you go over 100 mcg, you'll need to adjust your testosterone dose to save your muscles. the 250 mg I suggested earlier is likely not effective enough at this stage. 

You can run T3 for as long as you wish. There is no "Cut Off" point. Run it until you're satisfied with your results. Obviously these T3 cycles don't tend to last too long because we don't want to stay on steroids for too long either. So it's highly advised to discontinue use when you discontinue steroid use . Many have expressed concern that you have to taper down the dose before you come off of T3. This is false. You can stop cold turkey with no repercussions. Your thyroid gland will return to normal very quickly. I've used this compound for 6 months at a time alongside my TRT protocol. So for our "Cycles", you can expect your thyroid to return to normal function in a few days tops. 

You can start T3 after you start steroid use. If using short esters, give it a week and start your T3. If using long esters, give it a couple weeks and start. Those periods really won't make that much difference, but it's a good idea to eliminate any possible issues. 

There is no need to split your T3 dose into several doses daily. Just take your dose once a day, around the same time daily. You do not have to worry about what time of day, it does not matter. You do not have to worry about taking with or without food, it does not matter. Do not overthink this, please.


*How to Know if Your T3 is Legit and Working*

This is a tough one really. The truth is that a lot of people don't really feel anything from T3. And some others feel it in a couple days. There are only 2 ways of finding out that will work for everyone...

*1.* Body Temperature Increase. 
*2.* Observe Blood work.

You should always have pre cycle blood work. If you do not get pre cycle blood work, you will not have anything to compare to. So your results would be worthless otherwise. This goes for cycling anything whatsoever. 

After about a week or so of administering T3 doses, you should notice that your body temperature has slightly increased. After a couple weeks it most certainly should be elevated. You should not cycle T3 without a thermometer readily available so that you can check your temperature daily. I use an Omron ear thermometer and it takes a few seconds to give me a reading. As mentioned earlier, do not let your body get into dangerous temperatures. Always monitor and if it gets too high, you'll need to back off the dose in 20 to 25 mcg increments until your temperature is back at a safe point. How much, all depends on your normal body temperature. Not everyone is the same. Mine is normally 98.3 degrees fahrenheit, and I back off when I get too close to 99 degrees fahrenheit.

Blood work is the best method to check for T3 legitimacy. A good "normal" range for Total T3 is 76-181 ng/dL. And a normal range for Free T3 is 2.3-4.2 pg/mL. Where your levels would be is not a question that can be answered, so please do not ask me this. Too many factors will render comparisons potentially useless. It's easy to assume that your T3 is underdosed, but you could have an issue converting. Take T3, see your results, get blood work. That's how you know YOUR T3 is working for YOU. It should be obviously higher than range and you'll need to monitor and learn how your body takes to it. This is the tough part of testing if gear is underdosed. Either way, if you're in range, it's likely bunk. If you've been on for 4 weeks or so, and you're barely going over range, it's likely underdosed. Your Free T3 should also be elevated and your TSH should be very LOW. <~ aka shut down. TSH is really the big indicator.

*NON-RESPONDERS:* Although rare, I have certainly heard of folks that do not respond to T3. Unfortunately they flood internet forums complaining about "fake gear" without providing any blood work. T3 is one of the cheapest powders to buy and the chances of someone faking it or even underdosing it is slim to none. Although I've used some bunk stuff from random chem sites. But I can vouch for ar-r .com, our sponsor for their quality and effectiveness of the compound. There's also a really good chance that you're iodine and/or Tyrosine deficient. Although it's exogenous T3 and doesn't need to be "produced", iodine is still useful for proper metabolism. You don't want to deplete your iodine levels because it makes for a longer, more cumbersome recovery. Leaving you fatigued for a while. Iodine deficiency results in hypothyroidism. 

Finally, many folks are not aware of drug interactions that could hinder progress when coupled with T3. 


*Adverse Drug Interactions*

I recommend that you avoid coupling T3 with the following drugs:

*Ephedrine:* Risk of cardiac issues. So avoid ECA+T3.
*Lemon Balm:* Blocks thyrotropin receptors, making recover longer.
*Insulin:* Combo may result in hyperglycemia. (glucose excess)
*Iron:* Discontinue iron supplementation (food is enough), as it will decrease efficacy of T3.
*Magnesium Citrate:* Same as above. Keep magnesium doses at or under 100 mg.
*Raloxifene:* Combination can force TSH to become over productive, even in the presence of exo T3.
*Red Yeast Rice:* This is used to help cholesterol levels, unknown mechanism interferes with T3. 

Above interactions are from epocrates, you need a membership to access the data so I cannot link to it.

*
Side Effects Of T3*

Many people, including myself experience a level of fatigue and even some achiness. This generally (for me at least) goes away after a week or so or when your body adjusts to all the T3. That is all I personally experience (as far as feeling something) from T3, and I get great results from it. Of course I get a temperature increase but it doesn't make me feel hot all the time. It's not like Trenbolone .

Other issues you might experience are developing an irregular heartbeat (this is not as dangerous as it sounds), shakiness, shortness of breath, headaches and sweating. 

If your symptoms persist beyond 2 weeks, you should either lower your dose or abort the cycle. 

Hope this article helps. Have a powerful day,


~ Austinite

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## crazy mike

Damn that was good reading Austin~. AS usual thank you. I asked you about t3 just recently, earing the catabolic action. So I have it here but not using it because of B-temp. I run internally so hot. Uncomfortably so. My BW comes back ok to all this but I can't risk two things. The heat and the possible side of fatigue. 

So thanks it confirms my suspect and I don't need it with all I do and what my diet is...not. Being honest there, but it shows. Stay cool and catch later. ...crazy mike

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## clarky.

x2 on that mike i was just asking aust a few wks back about t3  :Smiley:

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## Sgt. Hartman

Very nice Austin  :Smilie:

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## austinite

> Very nice Austin


Thanks buddy. And thanks for responding to my questions about this.

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## cj111

Good read as always. I'll probably never use the stuff, but its always good to be educated

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## chi

Awesome read answered all my questions!!! Thanks a billion once again

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## FRDave

From what I have read, when on a low calorie diet, your thyroid drops/slows down, making it hard to continue to loose weight. 

If this is true, would the normal 25mg not help in a situation like this? So your not necessarily increasing it, but maintaining it so you can continue to loose weight... This may benefit those of us on TRT or whom don't use AAS, no?

I'm no diet expert so I could be all wrong here?

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## austinite

> From what I have read, when on a low calorie diet, your thyroid drops/slows down, making it hard to continue to loose weight. 
> 
> If this is true, would the normal 25mg not help in a situation like this? So your not necessarily increasing it, but maintaining it so you can continue to loose weight... This may benefit those of us on TRT or whom don't use AAS, no?
> 
> I'm no diet expert so I could be all wrong here?


Not really. 25mcg (not milligram) won't do much. Any natural fluctuation with thyroid is negligible.

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## gearbox

Awesome read. Easy to understand and straight to the point. I have been debating on trying this out for about 6 months now. I do not have to many issues cutting but its always a slow process to preserve the precious muscle tissue. I think I will give it a go when I have around 10%. I will run 700-1000 mg of test during this time also. If I decide to I will keep you posted.

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## austinite

> Awesome read. Easy to understand and straight to the point. I have been debating on trying this out for about 6 months now. I do not have to many issues cutting but its always a slow process to preserve the precious muscle tissue. I think I will give it a go when I have around 10%. I will run 700-1000 mg of test during this time also. If I decide to I will keep you posted.


Thanks man. Until then........... CES stack!

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## Othello

great read.

does caffeine affect T3 the way it affects T4 absorption in the body?

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## austinite

List of adverse interactions are listed, Othello.

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## Othello

> List of adverse interactions are listed, Othello.



saw that bro but I did not see caffeine thats why i asked. unless its implied in the ECA stack...





> Adverse Drug Interactions
> 
> I recommend that you avoid coupling T3 with the following drugs:
> 
> Ephedrine: Risk of cardiac issues. So avoid ECA+T3.
> Lemon Balm: Blocks thyrotropin receptors, making recover longer.
> Insulin : Combo may result in hyperglycemia. (glucose excess)
> Iron: Discontinue iron supplementation (food is enough), as it will decrease efficacy of T3.
> Magnesium Citrate: Same as above. Keep magnesium doses at or under 100 mg.
> ...

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## austinite

Ephedrine is the reference for ECA.

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## chi

so im taking a peptide T3 and this stuff is giving me heartburn, anyone get that?

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## t-dogg

> Thanks buddy. And thanks for responding to my questions about this.


Good write up mister 11.98  :Wink:

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## austinite

Never had heartburn, chi! Gotta be whatever its mixed with.

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## kelkel

Never used T3 or had in interest in it, but you "learned" me something here big guy!

Nice work, as always!

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## chi

man i looked it up and its a common side effect even with tabs with certain people. Anyone else have this?

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## austinite

> Never used T3 or had in interest in it, but you "learned" me something here big guy!
> 
> Nice work, as always!


LOL! Learned you something, eh? Funny! 

Thanks, Kel.

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## basketballfan22

> Never used T3 or had in interest in it, but you "learned" me something here big guy!
> 
> Nice work, as always!


Kel, what compounds, if any, have you used to shrink fat cells?

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## kelkel

I don't take anything of that nature, never have. Just eat clean, very fast metabolism and a natural ectomorph. And avoid all cardio. It's evil.

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## austinite

> kel, what compounds, if any, have you used to shrink fat cells?


o2..

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## basketballfan22

Your threads are ridiculously informative and easily accessible. T3 is probably one of the last compounds I will try as my problem is gaining weight. I have read up on hyperthyroidism though. I know you are not a doctor, but I want your opinion anyway. If my only issue is gaining weight and I don't suffer from any other symptom, do you think I can still have hyperthyroidism?

What's the highest T3 dose you have done?  :Wink: 

Thanks for the post.

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## basketballfan22

> I don't take anything of that nature, never have. Just eat clean, very fast metabolism and a natural ectomorph. And avoid all cardio. It's evil.


Good to know. I am a natural ectomorph myself, so I never planned on taking such a compound. I'm not sure I agree with the cardio part; although I haven't been doing any for a long time, lol.

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## austinite

> Your threads are ridiculously informative and easily accessible. T3 is probably one of the last compounds I will try as my problem is gaining weight. I have read up on hyperthyroidism though. I know you are not a doctor, but I want your opinion anyway. If my only issue is gaining weight and I don't suffer from any other symptom, do you think I can still have hyperthyroidism?
> 
> What's the highest T3 dose you have done? 
> 
> Thanks for the post.


Hyperthyroidism can certainly be a culprit and easily diagnosed. But you're young. When I was your age, I ate more in one day, than most could fathom eating in 3 days. And you could see my ribcage. When I got around 27 years old, I started developing the belly fat, then in the next few years it started to become difficult to get rid of fat. Metabolism is a funny thing as you age. Kelkel's case is uncommon. I've seen many men over 40 that are pretty lean, but most certainly not without a decent amount of cardio. 

My previous business partner is 47 years old. Abs, density, vascular and lean as anything. He went into a session in his life where he was missing from the gym for 3 months. I'll tell ya, I did not even recognize him. Looked like Ron Jeremy. Just pudgy all over. Took him about a year to recover and bring the old him back. 

_I refuse to publicly announce my highest T3 dose. LOL, PM ya later._

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## kelkel

> Hyperthyroidism can certainly be a culprit and easily diagnosed. But you're young. When I was your age, I ate more in one day, than most could fathom eating in 3 days. And you could see my ribcage. When I got around 27 years old, I started developing the belly fat, then in the next few years it started to become difficult to get rid of fat. Metabolism is a funny thing as you age. *Kelkel's case is uncommon*. I've seen many men over 40 that are pretty lean, but most certainly not without a decent amount of cardio. 
> [/I]



Now I'm a "case?"

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## austinite

> Now I'm a "case?"


lmfao! Basket case! For me. Because I'm jealous. I hate cardio.  :Frown:

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## chi

so im taking tadalifil and t3 together do you think it is the tadalifil or the reaction of the two? Also have a dry mouth but sick pump

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## austinite

> so im taking tadalifil and t3 together do you think it is the tadalifil or the reaction of the two? Also have a dry mouth but sick pump


There shouldn't be any adverse interactions. Try an elimination process. Come off Cialis for a couple days and see if anything changes.

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## basketballfan22

> Hyperthyroidism can certainly be a culprit and easily diagnosed. But you're young. When I was your age, I ate more in one day, than most could fathom eating in 3 days. And you could see my ribcage. When I got around 27 years old, I started developing the belly fat, then in the next few years it started to become difficult to get rid of fat. Metabolism is a funny thing as you age. Kelkel's case is uncommon. I've seen many men over 40 that are pretty lean, but most certainly not without a decent amount of cardio. 
> 
> My previous business partner is 47 years old. Abs, density, vascular and lean as anything. He went into a session in his life where he was missing from the gym for 3 months. I'll tell ya, I did not even recognize him. Looked like Ron Jeremy. Just pudgy all over. Took him about a year to recover and bring the old him back. 
> 
> _I refuse to publicly announce my highest T3 dose. LOL, PM ya later._


Lol, I was just being an ass. You clearly stated that you didn't want anyone asking you about what your highest dose was.

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## basketballfan22

> Now I'm a "case?"


The question mark belongs outside of the quotation marks. I have to find something to pick on you with.  :Smilie:

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## austinite

> Lol, I was just being an ass. You clearly stated that you didn't want anyone asking you about what your highest dose was.


Yeah I realized that, totally forgot I put that in the article.

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## austinite

*Shameless plug:* http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...od-counts.html

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## cgi

Gonna read this later on today. T3 is where I feel most people lack a ton of knowledge.

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## austinite

> Gonna read this later on today. T3 is where I feel most people lack a ton of knowledge.


yeah? you gonna check me for errors?

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## cgi

Great thread. Learned a lot. I will lead people hear who have T3 questions.

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## spin_doctor

Just order clen and T3 for a short cycle to try it. Your write up was very informative and confirmed some other info that I had gathered. I will be at 200mg wk on test which is just a little off your recommendation, but pretty close. My diet is real clean and I have doubled cardio. This should be interesting. Thanks for your hard work, all your articles have been very helpful.

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## Mp859

Would you run t3 up to pct or discontinue with last pin?

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## austinite

> Would you run t3 up to pct or discontinue with last pin?


If you run PCT, you should stop with your last injection of steroids . If you go a few days past that, you'll be fine.

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## Mp859

> If you run PCT, you should stop with your last injection of steroids. If you go a few days past that, you'll be fine.


Thanks man

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## austinite

Sure thing  :Smilie:

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## chi-town

This was EXACTLY what I was looking for, Thx Austinite!!!

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## austinite

> This was EXACTLY what I was looking for, Thx Austinite!!!



From the introductory:




> There was a member earlier that was looking for a detailed T3 thread.


^ That member was you  :Smilie:

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## chi-town

well that was very nice of you Thx again!! And ohh ya AUSTINITE for President!!!

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## bass

good stuff Austinite! now I have questions,

1. you've listed Ephedrine in the Drug Interactions List, I am in the middle of your Fat Loss Stack which uses Synephrine which I similar to Ephedrine , do you recommend stopping the Fat Loss Stack?

2. as you know I am on TRT at 140mgs ew, I guess I should blast to 250-350mgs ew during T3 cycle, correct?

3. can I still take NSAID's like Mobic?

Thanks!

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## austinite

> good stuff Austinite! now I have questions, 1. you've listed Ephedrine in the Drug Interactions List, I am in the middle of your Fat Loss Stack which uses Synephrine which I similar to Ephedrine , do you recommend stopping the Fat Loss Stack? 2. as you know I am on TRT at 140mgs ew, I guess I should blast to 250-350mgs ew during T3 cycle, correct? 3. can I still take NSAID's like Mobic? Thanks!


1. Ephedrine stimulates beta's directly and light on the alphas. Synephrine does the opposite by stimulating alphas directly and betas lightly. Making it much safer than ephedrine. You should be ok, but I haven't used anything else alongside my stack so I can't confirm without heavy research. That will take a while. 

2. Yes, increase to 250 while on T3. 

3. Yes! 

Good luck bass. Let me know if you think of any other questions.

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## bass

thanks Austinite, I am planning to start within 2-3 weeks from now. I'll keep you posted.

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## austinite

Anytime brother. Stay lean my friend.

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## athletic.guy

Im on 100ug t3 ed for a couple weeks on a low carb, low cal diet. I'm sweating all day, but not lost BF. 

HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO START WORKING? 

I'm at 20% bf trying to get down to 10 in 12 weeks. Ill stick with 100ug and Austinites diet supp list- chromium, EGCG, And synephrine stack along with ECA, L Carntine injections (900mg week), caffeine.

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## austinite

> Im on 100ug t3 ed for a couple weeks on a low carb, low cal diet. I'm sweating all day, but not lost BF. 
> 
> HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO START WORKING? 
> 
> I'm at 20% bf trying to get down to 10 in 12 weeks. Ill stick with 100ug and Austinites diet supp list- chromium, EGCG, And synephrine stack along with ECA, L Carntine injections (900mg week), caffeine.


Question is answered buddy. You need to check your temperature. It works quickly and I see results with the start of the second week. Make sure you have your diet evaluated. You're taking a whole lot of stuff for fat loss and not losing anything, something tells me your diet needs attention.

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## bass

I am on the Fat Loss Stack only and seeing results. I agree with Austinite, its got to be the diet.

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## athletic.guy

> Question is answered buddy. You need to check your temperature. It works quickly and I see results with the start of the second week. Make sure you have your diet evaluated. You're taking a whole lot of stuff for fat loss and not losing anything, something tells me your diet needs attention.


I won't hijack this thread but if you could please take a minutes to look at this thread I would be very greatful....

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...ml#post6707876

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## t-dogg

What's the highest t3dose any of you have run?

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## canesfan804

Nice work up Austin. How long is T3 good for after opening?

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## austinite

> Nice work up Austin. How long is T3 good for after opening?


If it's from ar-r , 9 to 12 months from the day you received it.

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## Brett N

Just out of curiosity more than anything...can women take T3 and what would they use to help prevent muscle loss?

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## austinite

> Just out of curiosity more than anything...can women take T3 and what would they use to help prevent muscle loss?


yes. Anavar . Not aware of dosing for women for either compound.

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## bass

ordered T3 today! will give this one a try and keep you posted.

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## t-dogg

> ordered T3 today! will give this one a try and keep you posted.



It would be nice if you had a log of it. Start date. Dose. Bf% before, during and after. Ect.

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## bass

> It would be nice if you had a log of it. Start date. Dose. Bf% before, during and after. Ect.


I'll start a private log, and if its worth it I'll start one in the open forum.

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## bass

saw my TRT doc was, complaining about slow recovery and joint pains. first she said to up my test dose, which I did, then she ordered a complete thyroid panel! so I'll wait on T3 cycle until I see what she wants to do. I just love my doc!

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## austinite

Good deal, Bass. Keep me posted man. Gotta love a good doc!

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## bigsiv

First if all great read austinite as usual very education.
Secondly can I ask are the dose, effects and risks the same for men and women?

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## austinite

> First if all great read austinite as usual very education. Secondly can I ask are the dose, effects and risks the same for men and women?


i honesty don't know enough about the female body to make an informed decision. Sorry buddy. Vettester and Hartman is more familiar and might be able to help.

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## bigsiv

> i honesty don't know enough about the female body to make an informed decision. Sorry buddy. Vettester and Hartman is more familiar and might be able to help.


Cheers anyways austinite shout out to Hartman and Vettester same question

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## bass

Bigsiv, PM them I am curious about your question we as well.

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## bigsiv

Will do

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## qscgugcsq

you said ephedrine could cause heart issue, is that the same with synephrine??

----------


## austinite

> you said ephedrine could cause heart issue, is that the same with synephrine??


Ephedrine and synephrine are not the same. Syn is much much safer.

----------


## Reiid13

Great read Aust ! 
Can you take T3 and Clen at same time , or would it just be like double dosing ? 

Also I presume the 50-100 is once a day ! 

Thanks !!

----------


## qscgugcsq

> Ephedrine and synephrine are not the same. Syn is much much safer.


great thanks, I was worried because I planned to run your otc fat loss protocol with T3, Next years.

I was also thinking of adding Yohimbine... would it be ok with synephrine/T3. with what Ive read yohimbine increase the release of noradrenaline...
would it be safe?
could I switch the synephrine for yohimbine if anything??

----------


## austinite

> great thanks, I was worried because I planned to run your otc fat loss protocol with T3, Next years.
> 
> I was also thinking of adding Yohimbine... would it be ok with synephrine/T3. with what Ive read yohimbine increase the release of noradrenaline...
> would it be safe?
> could I switch the synephrine for yohimbine if anything??


Yeah the direct beta stimulation of ephedrine is hectic on the body. Synephrine uses different pathways and directly stimulates alpha's, with slight stimulation of betas. Great combo with egcg and chromium. 

I don't really have a lot of experience with yohimbine to give an educated/experienced opinion. But I can tell you for sure they're not "switchable" . Personally I prefer to take the stack alone, but I've listed the adversely interacting drugs for review.

----------


## adrenaline99

Austinite, Could you explain why people are so dead set on only running T3 when you have clen to stack it with and why running T3/test without clen seems to be overlooked?

----------


## austinite

> Austinite, Could you explain why people are so dead set on only running T3 when you have clen to stack it with and why running T3/test without clen seems to be overlooked?


I don't understand what you said. Can you please rephrase...

----------


## adrenaline99

> I don't understand what you said. Can you please rephrase...


I'm just asking if the clen + T3 synergy is overrated, I ask this because almost everyone I see taking T3 also takes clen alongside it.

----------


## austinite

Well, they both seem to work, so that's why people take them together. Where people make a mistake, is assuming that Clen will prevent muscle waste. No such thing. 

There is no 'synergy' between the two compounds. They don't utilize the same pathways at all.

----------


## adrenaline99

> Well, they both seem to work, so that's why people take them together. Where people make a mistake, is assuming that Clen will prevent muscle waste. No such thing. 
> 
> There is no 'synergy' between the two compounds. They don't utilize the same pathways at all.


Great, I understand. Last question regarding T3. Should I refrigerate liquid T3?

----------


## austinite

> Great, I understand. Last question regarding T3. Should I refrigerate liquid T3?


Yes.

----------


## Brett N

Crap, bottle that ar-r shipped said nothing about refrigerating. Mine has been sitting for a week in a cool closet. Is it screwed or will it be ok if I start refrigerating now?

----------


## austinite

> Crap, bottle that ar-r shipped said nothing about refrigerating. Mine has been sitting for a week in a cool closet. Is it screwed or will it be ok if I start refrigerating now?


It'll be fine. Just put it in the fridge. Honestly, I am merely following their recommendation. I've used non-refrigerated T3 with no difference.

----------


## Vettester

> First if all great read austinite as usual very education.
> Secondly can I ask are the dose, effects and risks the same for men and women?


Therapeutic dosages tend to range from 12.5mcg to 25mcg/day, and up to 50mcg (dependent on assay results), but like anything, starting out should be small (5mcg) and titrate up to the optimal dosage suggested by a physician. Keep in mind, women facing peri-menopausal and post menopausal symptoms will tend to have other conditions with the adrenals and iron/ferritin, which needs to factored before supplementing T3, or any natural desiccated thyroid medication. Various conditions like pooling seem to exist more in women in the peri/post meno stages, usually due to a iron deficiency and cortisol imbalance. As mentioned, supplementing products like iron at the same time with T3 can render its efficacy. A lot of female BHRT doctors will split up the dosages 2x day, 1st dose at the time of rising. Iron and B12 supplements could be at lunch time. 

Labs will be crucial, and with women, I can't stress the Iron/Ferritin and Adrenal (cortisol saliva, DHEA, ..), and proper thyroid labs -FT4, FT3, RT3, Thyroid Antibodies. If a physician just goes by TSH, time to move on. To really determine what a patient NEEDS, they need to rule out Hashis, Graves, etc., and/or other possible pathologies that might be loosely related, but causing inflammation that are directly effecting these glands and the function thereof.

----------


## austinite

> Therapeutic dosages tend to range from 12.5mcg to 25mcg/day, and up to 50mcg (dependent on assay results), but like anything, starting out should be small (5mcg) and titrate up to the optimal dosage suggested by a physician. Keep in mind, women facing peri-menopausal and post menopausal symptoms will tend to have other conditions with the adrenals and iron/ferritin, which needs to factored before supplementing T3, or any natural desiccated thyroid medication. Various conditions like pooling seem to exist more in women in the peri/post meno stages, usually due to a iron deficiency and cortisol imbalance. As mentioned, supplementing products like iron at the same time with T3 can render its efficacy. A lot of female BHRT doctors will split up the dosages 2x day, 1st dose at the time of rising. Iron and B12 supplements could be at lunch time. 
> 
> Labs will be crucial, and with women, I can't stress the Iron/Ferritin and Adrenal (cortisol saliva, DHEA, ..), and proper thyroid labs -FT4, FT3, RT3, Thyroid Antibodies. If a physician just goes by TSH, time to move on. To really determine what a patient NEEDS, they need to rule out Hashis, Graves, etc., and/or other possible pathologies that might be loosely related, but causing inflammation that are directly effecting these glands and the function thereof.


Outstanding. Thank you, Vette! We can always count on you  :Smilie:

----------


## teezer33

Great reading, the only thing I would add would be to wait 4 hours before taking vitamins. apparently it will destroy the effects of T3, according to me Endo.

----------


## austinite

> Great reading, the only thing I would add would be to wait 4 hours before taking vitamins. apparently it will destroy the effects of T3, according to me Endo.


i haven't seen any evidence to this.

----------


## teezer33

> i haven't seen any evidence to this.


I found this on drugs.com 

The timing of meals relative to your levothyroxine dose can affect absorption of the drug. Therefore, levothyroxine should be taken on a consistent schedule with regard to time of day and relation to meals so as to maintain steady blood levels. In addition, absorption of levothyroxine may be decreased by foods such as soybean flour, cotton seed meal, walnuts, dietary fiber, calcium, and calcium fortified juices. These foods should be avoided within several hours of dosing if possible.

Drug Interaction Report - Drugs.com

I was told to wait an hour before meals, and 4 hours for vitamins for proper absorbtion

----------


## austinite

> I found this on drugs.com The timing of meals relative to your levothyroxine dose can affect absorption of the drug. Therefore, levothyroxine should be taken on a consistent schedule with regard to time of day and relation to meals so as to maintain steady blood levels. In addition, absorption of levothyroxine may be decreased by foods such as soybean flour, cotton seed meal, walnuts, dietary fiber, calcium, and calcium fortified juices. These foods should be avoided within several hours of dosing if possible. Drug Interaction Report - Drugs.com I was told to wait an hour before meals, and 4 hours for vitamins for proper absorbtion


yea those are articles. There really isn't any scientific evidence to this. I'll do some more research but I take it at the same time with zero adverse effects.

----------


## Vettester

> Outstanding. Thank you, Vette! We can always count on you


Thanks Aus! I only wish I had more time like before. Hopefully things will settle a bit over the holidays. Great stuff you put together on the opening post!! The thyroid function is as complex as it is intriguing! Maybe at some point we can collaborate on thyroid sticky in the HRT section, as hypogonadism and the thyroid conditions go hand-n-hand.

----------


## adrenaline99

So I just received my liquid t3 from ar-r and had a question about the oral syringe it came with. Everytime I try to dose it right it traps a large air bubble next to the plunger, is there anyway to eliminate all of the air in the oral syringe in order ro get the full dose? Thanks!

----------


## austinite

> So I just received my liquid t3 from ar-r and had a question about the oral syringe it came with. Everytime I try to dose it right it traps a large air bubble next to the plunger, is there anyway to eliminate all of the air in the oral syringe in order ro get the full dose? Thanks!


disregard the bubble. Just be sure the liquid is at the mark of your choice.

----------


## athletic.guy

> Im on 100ug t3 ed for a couple weeks on a low carb, low cal diet. I'm sweating all day, but not lost BF. 
> 
> HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO START WORKING? 
> 
> I'm at 20% bf trying to get down to 10 in 12 weeks. Ill stick with 100ug and Austinites diet supp list- chromium, EGCG, And synephrine stack along with ECA, L Carntine injections (900mg week), caffeine.


Ok, I wrote the above post earlier. I have actually now been testsd and have lost 5% bf on your stacks.... But maintained weight..... 

Saying all that my diet is calculated, weighted and almost perfect everyday.

I'm only using 50ug a day but plan to for 3 months. Your weight loss stack is great too with no sides.

My weight possibly hasn't dropped because I'm holding more water, my e2 is through the roof ATM due to not responding well to my AI's.

----------


## Brett N

I have been on the ar-r T3 for 15 days as of today. I am taking .3ml which is 60mg. My body temperature has not risen at all yet. I have been taking the T3 the same time every day and my temp the same time. I have not increased the Test I am taking. I am only on 100mg a week for TRT, I may increase if I notice muscle loss. 

Any suggestions? Should I increase amount of T3? Am I doing something wrong?

----------


## austinite

Any body aches, Brett?

----------


## Brett N

Yea, really rough the last 2 days. Last night I noticed my squat dropped quite a bit. Normally, I could rep 285x9 and I could only do 285x4 and it was tough as hell. 

Several muscle groups are feeling really sore like I worked them real hard but I didn't.

----------


## austinite

> Yea, really rough the last 2 days. Last night I noticed my squat dropped quite a bit. Normally, I could rep 285x9 and I could only do 285x4 and it was tough as hell. 
> 
> Several muscle groups are feeling really sore like I worked them real hard but I didn't.


OK just continue with your protocol. It's working. The aching should subside soon.

----------


## athletic.guy

I've stopped my t3 until I get my hormones back into check. I've stopped all my test e shots as u may know too. Hopefully it only take a week or so then plan on continuing, do u think its ok to stop t3 for a week then start again or should I stay off a lil longer??? Or it doesn't really matter, just continue with 50ug ed without test for now ??

----------


## austinite

Why would you stop for a week and continue? I don't understand. What exactly do you mean by "Hormones back in check"? If no blood panels are being ordering I wouldn't bother really. I need details, lots of them...

----------


## athletic.guy

I'm having extremely high estrogen issues ATM. So ill just continue T3 @ 50ug ed because its unrelated to my high e2.

Thanks Aust.

----------


## ricorico

Thank you for all the great information and effort put into this.

----------


## Reiid13

> I'm having extremely high estrogen issues ATM. So ill just continue T3 @ 50ug ed because its unrelated to my high e2.
> 
> Thanks Aust.


Pull out the big guns get letro then if that dont work visit doctors

----------


## Reiid13

To preserve muscle , would primo be better to take than test e to stay more lean ? Would you need a pct still of nolvadex and clomid ?

----------


## austinite

> To preserve muscle , would primo be better to take than test e to stay more lean ? Would you need a pct still of nolvadex and clomid ?


No, primo only would be a terrible choice. 

Yes, you need PCT after any and every suppressing compound.

----------


## mikemike12

Great Article.

I have a few questions about coming off T3

1. How long approx till thyroid function returns to normal? I will be using for 4 weeks at 50mcg ED. 

2. Is there any way to tell if your thyroid is up and running again short of a doctor visit?

3. When coming off T3 'cold-turkey', should calories be lowered to offset the dramatic decrease in metabolic rate until thyroid is back to normal?

----------


## mikemike12

> Great Article.
> 
> I have a few questions about coming off T3
> 
> 1. How long approx till thyroid function returns to normal? I will be using for 4 weeks at 50mcg ED. 
> 
> 2. Is there any way to tell if your thyroid is up and running again short of a doctor visit?
> 
> 3. When coming off T3 'cold-turkey', should calories be lowered to offset the dramatic decrease in metabolic rate until thyroid is back to normal?


bump for answers  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## austinite

> Great Article.
> 
> I have a few questions about coming off T3
> 
> 1. How long approx till thyroid function returns to normal? I will be using for 4 weeks at 50mcg ED. 
> 
> 2. Is there any way to tell if your thyroid is up and running again short of a doctor visit?
> 
> 3. When coming off T3 'cold-turkey', should calories be lowered to offset the dramatic decrease in metabolic rate until thyroid is back to normal?


1. A few hours maybe. 
2. Sure, blood work. 
3. Yeah, but that math would be mind boggling to figure out...

----------


## mikemike12

> 1. A few hours maybe. 
> 2. Sure, blood work. 
> 3. Yeah, but that math would be mind boggling to figure out...


Thanks for for the response.


You are saying my thyroid will be producing 25mcg T3 ED starting a few hours after I stop use? That doesn't sound right. Did you mean days?

----------


## austinite

Yes. Thyroid, as stated, recovers quickly. You'd have to be on for a year for it to take days to recover. People on for 20 years recovered in a few weeks.

----------


## mikemike12

> Yes. Thyroid, as stated, recovers quickly. You'd have to be on for a year for it to take days to recover. People on for 20 years recovered in a few weeks.



Awesome. Thanks again.

----------


## Brett N

austinite, similar to question above. I have been on 60mg T3 for 3 weeks. Went to GP today complaining of arthritis in my hands, just wanting some celebrex or something. He dicides that I need bloodwork. He says, while we're at it...lets test for Thyroid, cholesterol, and a ton of other stuff. Not test or anything TRT related though. 

Question - will my thyroid test show that it looks like it is over producing since I am taking 60mg? If I stopped now (last night last dose) when would my blood test show the normal levels?

----------


## austinite

YOU MEAN MICROGRAMS? ANd yes, your TSH will be shut down and free will be elevated.

----------


## Giggle

Aust and Vettster - I sure wish you could guide me. I've been slowly leaning out over the summer, but have hit a plateau. I've been using the fat loss protocol for 2 months (with on and off weeks) with good results - but I'm just not satisfied yet.

I was planning to start at 25 mcg and bump up from there. I'm in a growth phase - but hoping to lean out a bit as well. 
Any thoughts?

----------


## austinite

> Aust and Vettster - I sure wish you could guide me. I've been slowly leaning out over the summer, but have hit a plateau. I've been using the fat loss protocol for 2 months (with on and off weeks) with good results - but I'm just not satisfied yet.
> 
> I was planning to start at 25 mcg and bump up from there. I'm in a growth phase - but hoping to lean out a bit as well. 
> Any thoughts?


If you're in growth, you might stay lean, I don't know about leaning out even more while growing. That takes many moons to do. I'm still learning more about the female body and Vettester is the best teacher, so hopefully we both hear from him.

----------


## Vettester

> Aust and Vettster - I sure wish you could guide me. I've been slowly leaning out over the summer, but have hit a plateau. I've been using the fat loss protocol for 2 months (with on and off weeks) with good results - but I'm just not satisfied yet.
> 
> I was planning to start at 25 mcg and bump up from there. I'm in a growth phase - but hoping to lean out a bit as well. 
> Any thoughts?


Hey Giggles, I just happened to take a quick glance at this thread and saw your post. Looking at your profile, I'm presuming you are post-meno? IMO, I'd start a little lighter then titrate up from there; maybe 5 to 10mcg, see how you feel. If by chance you have some fairly recent labs, I'd really be interested ... We don't have to muck up this good thread, so maybe we can chat more in the female HRT section? I'm obviously going for other areas that might be contributing to your plateau, which may easily be part of the solution, i.e., DHEA/adrenals, test serum and free, B12, D3, etc., ... Also any comprehensive thyroid panels showing its activity.

----------


## Giggle

Thanks - I'll gather up some labs and post them up over there in a few days.
Appreciate the help!



> Hey Giggles, I just happened to take a quick glance at this thread and saw your post. Looking at your profile, I'm presuming you are post-meno? IMO, I'd start a little lighter then titrate up from there; maybe 5 to 10mcg, see how you feel. If by chance you have some fairly recent labs, I'd really be interested ... We don't have to muck up this good thread, so maybe we can chat more in the female HRT section? I'm obviously going for other areas that might be contributing to your plateau, which may easily be part of the solution, i.e., DHEA/adrenals, test serum and free, B12, D3, etc., ... Also any comprehensive thyroid panels showing its activity.

----------


## austinite

Good call, Giggle. I'll be attending, if you don't mind  :Smilie: 

Thanks, Vette.

----------


## aquarius66794

Just wanted to chime in and thank aus. for the awesome information. You should consider writing a book, knowledge deserves compensation. I wanted to ask if you think a T3/clen cycle would be even more beneficial while doing your CES stack?

Thanks

----------


## austinite

> Just wanted to chime in and thank aus. for the awesome information. You should consider writing a book, knowledge deserves compensation. I wanted to ask if you think a T3/clen cycle would be even more beneficial while doing your CES stack?
> 
> Thanks


Thanks for the kind words, brother. 

If you add anything to the CES stack, it would no longer be the CES stack. So I recommend that you do not add anything.  :Smilie:

----------


## bass

Hey Austinite, i want to rum T3 cycle but also rolax cycle, i know i can't run both together, but not sure if there is an advantage running T3 first or Rolax first. any suggestions?

----------


## austinite

No real advantage. I guess it's all dependent on the purpose of Ralox. If Ralox is being used to resolve a condition, then I would get that out of the way first.

----------


## bass

that's what I was thinking too. thanks!

----------


## Spartans09

I have been on Nebido (test undecanoate) TRT for a couple of years. Would that be enough on its own to keep from losing muscle at a 50-70mcg dose of T3 fo 6-8 weeks? Secondly, would 40mg of anavar and Nebido TRT be sufficient to keep from having muscle loss?

----------


## Live for the PUMP

Great write up on the T3! 

I have been debating whether to implement this on my next cut cycle in April. I will be running Tren for the first time, so I kind of wanted to distinguish what that feels like on its own. What would be your thoughts on that? See how tren works by itself first or better to couple it with T3?

----------


## austinite

I don't use Trenbolone but that's a good general rule to eliminate the side effects from compounding.

----------


## adrenaline99

Hey Austin have you ever heard of heart palps from T3? Just increased from 75 mcg to 100 and experiencing them sometimes. Perhaps it might be RBC though. I had it measured at 51 3 weeks ago.

----------


## austinite

Anything is possible. Never heard of that though. Although I have an irregular heart beat so I would be a poor judge.

I hope you donated blood.

----------


## CHUVY

hey so i know you cant mix t3 and Ephedrine as you stated. So i assume that would include the synephrine from your weight loss stack. Or is synephrine different enough so that it can be stacked with t3?

----------


## austinite

> hey so i know you cant mix t3 and Ephedrine as you stated. So i assume that would include the synephrine from your weight loss stack. Or is synephrine different enough so that it can be stacked with t3?


I never said that. No mixing anything with synephrine. I do not recommend ephedrine at all, for any reason.

----------


## bass

decided to do T3 cycle first, Rolax after. 3d day in at 50mcg and been experiencing some sides, higher heart beat rate, light headed and mild headache. I am assuming these are to be expected, correct?

----------


## CHUVY

ok i miss typed that. You recommended to avoid coupling ephedrine and t3.

So i understand synephrine should not be mixed/stacked/coupled with anything...got it.


And a question about you personal experience having to do with t3. Did you use the t3 from ar-r .
if so the dosage for 50mcg would roughly be .25ml. That what i understood when reading the product on ar-r.
it states that there is 200mcg/ml.

----------


## CHUVY

ok i miss typed that. You recommended to avoid coupling ephedrine and t3.

So i understand synephrine should not be mixed/stacked/coupled with anything...got it.


And a question about you personal experience having to do with t3. Did you use the t3 from ar-r .
if so the dosage for 50mcg would roughly be .25ml. That what i understood when reading the product on ar-r.
it states that there is 200mcg/ml.

----------


## austinite

Yes, I used arr T3 and it works great. 50mcg is exactly .25 ml, not roughly.

----------


## CHUVY

ok cool! thanks ..
im not sure why that posted twice..
any way thanks for all the info and time you put into it!

----------


## austinite

Anytime brother. Good luck and have a powerful day!

----------


## Back In Black

> I have been on Nebido (test undecanoate) TRT for a couple of years. Would that be enough on its own to keep from losing muscle at a 50-70mcg dose of T3 fo 6-8 weeks? Secondly, would 40mg of anavar and Nebido TRT be sufficient to keep from having muscle loss?


Austin, can I bump this. Something I may be interested in, particularly the synergy between var and t3. Although I may well run a much higher test dose.

----------


## austinite

> I have been on Nebido (test undecanoate) TRT for a couple of years. Would that be enough on its own to keep from losing muscle at a 50-70mcg dose of T3 fo 6-8 weeks? Secondly, would 40mg of anavar and Nebido TRT be sufficient to keep from having muscle loss?





> Austin, can I bump this. Something I may be interested in, particularly the synergy between var and t3. Although I may well run a much higher test dose.


Ok so Nebido would work just fine. If you're new to Nebido, I would prefer to see you run T3 shortly after your follow up booster shot. Maintain a dose of 75mcg or less with T3 for no longer than 6 weeks. 

Anavar and T3 has done some magic for me. I used 30mg of anavar for 8 weeks with 100mcg T3 alongside my (back then) trt dose of 150 cyp per week. Anavar was pharmaceutical so I was able to get great results from low mg doses. Not going to happen with UGL gear though. Var/T3 is incredible for me.

----------


## mockery

Any research on Tren specific or 19-nors reducing T3 levels?

----------


## austinite

> Any research on Tren specific or 19-nors reducing T3 levels?


No..

----------


## thisAngelBites

> Hey Austin have you ever heard of heart palps from T3? Just increased from 75 mcg to 100 and experiencing them sometimes. Perhaps it might be RBC though. I had it measured at 51 3 weeks ago.



Too much T3 will indeed give you heart palpitations. It's a very common symptom of hyperthyroidism.

----------


## adrenaline99

> Too much T3 will indeed give you heart palpitations. It's a very common symptom of hyperthyroidism.


Is it anything to worry about?

----------


## thisAngelBites

Well, heart palpitations are pretty common as most people don't have perfect heartbeats anyway. When the heart contracts prematurely, usually it makes the next beat go a bit later. So, I'd say if you have lots of palpitations in a row, instead of slower contractions that usually follow, it's starting to be of concern. Anything else like lightheadedness, feeling dizzy or faint, shortness of breath and I would be more worried.

Also, I'd not raise the dose any more if you are having palps, but I'm a fairly cautious person. You might get different views elsewhere. Not worth it to be needlessly in harm's way to lose a little fat, that's my view.

----------


## thisAngelBites

Btw, nice write up, Austinite!

----------


## Back In Black

> Ok so Nebido would work just fine. If you're new to Nebido, I would prefer to see you run T3 shortly after your follow up booster shot. Maintain a dose of 75mcg or less with T3 for no longer than 6 weeks. 
> 
> Anavar and T3 has done some magic for me. I used 30mg of anavar for 8 weeks with 100mcg T3 alongside my (back then) trt dose of 150 cyp per week. Anavar was pharmaceutical so I was able to get great results from low mg doses. Not going to happen with UGL gear though. Var/T3 is incredible for me.


Lovely, that's what I wanted to hear re: var and T3 together (I will likely start at 50mcg for my first time cycle) I get my booster on Monday but, in reality, I'll not cycle til after my next 12 week shot. Probably :Wink:

----------


## bass

Austinite can you please respond to my previous post? the lightheaded feeling is getting to me, is this expected and will it go away, should I reduce the dose? input is appreciated. thanks!




> decided to do T3 cycle first, Rolax after. 3d day in at 50mcg and been experiencing some sides, higher heart beat rate, light headed and mild headache. I am assuming these are to be expected, correct?

----------


## adrenaline99

I just got denied at a blood bank because my heart rate was 105..I'm on 100mcg a day. My heart rate before T3 was 85. Should i lower my dose? I just took it 3 times with an electronic bp monitor and it was 99-96-99.

----------


## Cuz

this is great. thank you Austin.

----------


## songdog

Another good thread bro!

----------


## austinite

> Austinite can you please respond to my previous post? the lightheaded feeling is getting to me, is this expected and will it go away, should I reduce the dose? input is appreciated. thanks!


Sorry bass. Missed that one. Lightheadedness is not something I've experienced. I have heard from others however. I would only allow a day or 2 tops with lightheadedness. Beyond that, I would lower your dose and keep your BP in check. If T3 is directly causing it, I don't see how it will go away on its own. 




> I just got denied at a blood bank because my heart rate was 105..I'm on 100mcg a day. My heart rate before T3 was 85. Should i lower my dose? I just took it 3 times with an electronic bp monitor and it was 99-96-99.


That's what T3 does. If you need to lower it to donate blood, then yes.

----------


## cj111

Been running T3 from ar-r for a few weeks now, how do you tell if its workin ? I took my temp at work, was 36.4 , has been fluctuating around that whenever I check so deff no increase in body temp.
Any other ways to tell if its legit?

----------


## austinite

Temp and blood work. See the last segment in the article.

----------


## bass

> Sorry bass. Missed that one. Lightheadedness is not something I've experienced. I have heard from others however. I would only allow a day or 2 tops with lightheadedness. Beyond that, I would lower your dose and keep your BP in check. If T3 is directly causing it, I don't see how it will go away on its own.


Good deal, I'll lower the dose and see what happens. thanks!

----------


## bass

after 4 day I am aborting the cycle, BP is way up. i'll start again at half the dose once everything gets back to normal.

----------


## CHUVY

hey hey hey,

I have a Q. 
I started taking the T3, i have been on it for 5 days and i have lost 4 pounds. Pretty awesome....
so Just like you said i did realize that i am getting a little weaker, so its burning up my muscle. So i wanted to ask what product do you recommend from ar to counter the muscle loss. I am able to get my hands on jintropin which i know will take care of the problem. the only thing is i dont want to start jintropin till about feb. which is when i plan to start bulking. now i just want to drop weight. so i just want something that can almost balance with the t3.

----------


## cj111

> hey hey hey,
> I have a Q.
> I started taking the T3, i have been on it for 5 days and i have lost 4 pounds. Pretty awesome....
> so Just like you said i did realize that i am getting a little weaker, so its burning up my muscle. So i wanted to ask what product do you recommend from ar to counter the muscle loss. I am able to get my hands on jintropin which i know will take care of the problem. the only thing is i dont want to start jintropin till about feb. which is when i plan to start bulking. now i just want to drop weight. so i just want something that can almost balance with the t3.


Are you running any test with the T3?

----------


## austinite

> hey hey hey,
> 
> I have a Q. 
> I started taking the T3, i have been on it for 5 days and i have lost 4 pounds. Pretty awesome....
> so Just like you said i did realize that i am getting a little weaker, so its burning up my muscle. So i wanted to ask what product do you recommend from ar to counter the muscle loss. I am able to get my hands on jintropin which i know will take care of the problem. the only thing is i dont want to start jintropin till about feb. which is when i plan to start bulking. now i just want to drop weight. so i just want something that can almost balance with the t3.


Testosterone .

----------


## CHUVY

Cj no I'm currently not. I was looking into the testosterone on AR but they have a few options I wasn't sure which on to pick. .. Any suggestions?

----------


## CHUVY

Austinite do you have any recommendations for the testosterone offered on AR?

----------


## CHUVY

God im blowing this thing up.....

any way so im not all that familiar with test, im pretty sure you guys can tell. i usually play around with jintropin. but any way.
the test that is offered on ar .....the liquid stane.... would that be a good product. and would i have to commit to 250-350mg. of course i understand all bodies are different. but i guess im looking for a starting point.

so is that stuff good or should i look else where.
thnks guys/gals

if you could get back to me before the xmas...thats when the 20% ends..

----------


## Back In Black

They don't sell testosterone . Liquid stane is an AI.

If you aren't taking test drop your T3 until you get some.

----------


## austinite

> God im blowing this thing up.....
> 
> any way so im not all that familiar with test, im pretty sure you guys can tell. i usually play around with jintropin. but any way.
> the test that is offered on ar .....the liquid stane.... would that be a good product. and would i have to commit to 250-350mg. of course i understand all bodies are different. but i guess im looking for a starting point.
> 
> so is that stuff good or should i look else where.
> thnks guys/gals
> 
> if you could get back to me before the xmas...thats when the 20% ends..


I'm not sure what to tell you Chuvy. ar-r does not sell steroids as BIB above said. We cant really discuss sources anyway. You just need to find testosterone and inject it as mentioned in the article.

----------


## CHUVY

thanks BIB and AUSTINITE.
i got it now. I appreciate all the help amigos.

----------


## CHUVY

thanks bib and austinite.
i got it now,
i appreciate all the help

----------


## austinite

Get lean Chuvy! Good luck pal.

----------


## bass

Austinite, just to let you know by BP went down one day after I stopped taking T3, so now I am back on it at 25mcg ed and I seem to tolerate it better, maybe a ramp up was needed for me, will see. also like you to know this stuff really works, not much change in weight but sure look much leaner, especially in my face, and no change in diet! thanks for all your help.

----------


## austinite

> Austinite, just to let you know by BP went down one day after I stopped taking T3, so now I am back on it at 25mcg ed and I seem to tolerate it better, maybe a ramp up was needed for me, will see. also like you to know this stuff really works, not much change in weight but sure look much leaner, especially in my face, and no change in diet! thanks for all your help.


Good to hear BP went down. Pace yourself brother. Thanks for the update.

----------


## AnabolicBoy1981

austins opinion: Reverse T3: Side Effects of T3-only (or Why You Need T4 Too)

just read a bunch of that. Mainly, the one point that worries me is it says that taking just t-3 can increase the amount of deodinase (sp? lol) enzyme and that is the enzyme that converts t-4 to t3 and reverse t-3....*but ALSO t-3 to the less active t-2*. Now some other places have said t-2 is more active on paper but clinically didnt pan out, though dont have the doses. Basically this conversion to t-2 concerns me.
Second it also said *t-3 can increase E2 and SHBG*...though maybe its the E2 causing the rise in SHBG in which an AI would take care of both. Shortly after starting my t-3 i thought i was getting gyno but wasnt sure because i was on masteron and am not E2 sensitive(can handle a 1000mg of test with no ai, while not terrilbly lean and 500mgs of test super fat). I wasnt sure if it was a true lump or a blind masteron zit as mast has been giving me lots of chest zits, so i waited it out and whatever it was went away.
Anyway, any opinion on the T-2 and an E2, SHBG issue? thanks

----------


## Reiid13

^^^^ Interesting read ! 
Although not easy to read at midnight lol

----------


## CaptainDwamn

You know what's funny is that there is a thermo product by the company GAD called T-300, probably trying to make it sound like T3.

----------


## PistolPete33

My wife has been taking 60mcg's since December and has seen some pretty insane results. She's been working out and eating right for the past year or so with little results. She decided to give T3 a try and it's really working.

----------


## H93

wow, a very good read. Now i feel i can start my program. Thanks

----------


## AliYousaf

Nice info.. Is that all apply on liquid T3 by Ar-r ?? I ask because I am often told on these forums that the sponsor doesn't produce steroid but alternatives. What I want to know is if liquid T3 by them any good??

Sent from my iPhone.

----------


## austinite

> Nice info.. Is that all apply on liquid T3 by Ar-r ?? I ask because I am often told on these forums that the sponsor doesn't produce steroid but alternatives. What I want to know is if liquid T3 by them any good??
> 
> Sent from my iPhone.


T3 is not a steroid. Ar-r has great T3.

----------


## breakthelines

> T3 is not a steroid. Ar-r has great T3.


Hi Austinite,

If you were running a Test E cycle @ 500mg per week for 12 weeks would you still see the same gains as you would if you weren't cycling T3?

Or would you have to increase the test dose to 600mg+ per week?

Cheers

----------


## austinite

> Hi Austinite,
> 
> If you were running a Test E cycle @ 500mg per week for 12 weeks would you still see the same gains as you would if you weren't cycling T3?
> 
> Or would you have to increase the test dose to 600mg+ per week?
> 
> Cheers


t3 will not hinder lean gains at those testosterone doses.

----------


## MODO

nice thread

----------


## RANA

Nice write up...

----------


## breakthelines

Do you have to be at a particular BF% for T3 to be effective?

----------


## austinite

> Do you have to be at a particular BF% for T3 to be effective?


No. But no "aid" is healthy at high BF.

----------


## breakthelines

> No. But no "aid" is healthy at high BF.


I'm in the 15-16% range. That's why I was interested.

----------


## austinite

> I'm in the 15-16% range. That's why I was interested.


That's a fine BF to start.

----------


## gearbox

I'm jumping on t3 first time aust. I will let you know how I feel etc. Just hope the sweating is not horrible. I think in two weeks. Leaning out again. I know i can get lean from diet cardio curious the difference adding t3

----------


## austinite

> I'm jumping on t3 first time aust. I will let you know how I feel etc. Just hope the sweating is not horrible. I think in two weeks. Leaning out again. I know i can get lean from diet cardio curious the difference adding t3


Welcome aboard, Brother. Hope it works as good as it did for me. Enjoy and keep me posted.  :Smilie:

----------


## gearbox

I miss my buddy. Will do. I'm excited to see what happens. Will most likely run 500 a week and be on low dose dbol or drol.

----------


## GFA

Hey austinite, 

Great write up. I started 140mg test x2 (280 week) + 50 mcg T3 ED. Just finished up the first week. Down 4 lbs so far. 

Sides so far:
Lethargic every day, gets worse later in the day. 
Headache (just started on Day 8)
Slightly elevated BP (140/80)

I am going to stick it out for another week to see if the fatigue and headache goes away but 4 lbs in a week is pretty damn good. I normally average 2 lbs a week (been cutting for past 6 weeks so its not water). Curious if I will maintain this rate for another week. If the sides go away, I plan on sticking it out for a month. 

Ill post up progress here after a month if anyone interested.

----------


## austinite

Watch that BP closely. Personally, I would abort.

----------


## gearbox

You would abort at 140/80?

----------


## austinite

> You would abort at 140/80?


I would abort if BP is on the rise and unmanageable while on T3, is what I meant  :Smilie:

----------


## GFA

> I would abort if BP is on the rise and unmanageable while on T3, is what I meant


I watch it daily. Normal BP is 120/80. Do you think I should abort now?

Down 3.6 lbs in first week.

Edit: BP is 126/77. Going back down. Just checked.

----------


## GFA

Protocol - 140 mg test 2x a week (280 mg test), 50mcg T3 daily

*Week 1 - T3 results*
Down 3.6 lbs (normal rate with current diet/workout is around 1-2 lbs weekly)
Waist down .5"

Sides:
Elevated BP - 140/80 (back down to 127/77)
Headache - started day 7, went away day 8
Fatigue - finally going away day 8

Strength has been pretty consistent. Been increasing if anything. Never did a test cycle before so maybe making slight gains even at 280mg week?

I plan on sticking it out for another week to see if I can replicate the 3+ lb weight loss this week. Then I know its not a fluke.

----------


## gearbox

Good to you. I doubt the weight loss is a fluke. Some have more to lose then othere. 280 of test is plenty to see or feel strength or just better overall.
and bp fluctuates a lot through out the day so measure more then once to get an accurate reading. 
keep up the good work.

----------


## kelkel

Arginine To Lower High Blood Pressure - Arginin For Hypertension - YouTube

----------


## austinite

> I watch it daily. Normal BP is 120/80. Do you think I should abort now?
> 
> Down 3.6 lbs in first week.
> 
> Edit: BP is 126/77. Going back down. Just checked.


If you're able to keep it under control you're fine. Pre-hypertension needs to be monitored very carefully. If you get close to stage-1 hypertension, abort. It can get up there faster than you think. This is why you need to be extra cautious. I usually monitor 6 to 7 times per week. Recently failed to monitor for a week and found myself at stage-2 hypertension. Very dangerous. It was not related to T3, but the point is when you're taking something that may cause issues, the more you can monitor the better.

----------


## austinite

> Arginine To Lower High Blood Pressure - Arginin For Hypertension - YouTube


Great link. I need to speak to you tonight about Arginine. Got a bunch of errands to run but I have some info to share before I make a call with respect to Arginine.

----------


## GFA

> Arginine To Lower High Blood Pressure - Arginin For Hypertension - YouTube


Thanks kel for the link. Ill pick some up today and see how it goes. 

Formula is weight (kgs)/10*.5

Came out to 4.75g arginine a day for me.

Ill monitor bp and see what impact it has.

----------


## GFA

> If you're able to keep it under control you're fine. Pre-hypertension needs to be monitored very carefully. If you get close to stage-1 hypertension, abort. It can get up there faster than you think. This is why you need to be extra cautious. I usually monitor 6 to 7 times per week. Recently failed to monitor for a week and found myself at stage-2 hypertension. Very dangerous. It was not related to T3, but the point is when you're taking something that may cause issues, the more you can monitor the better.




Will do. Checking daily. Seems to be going back down. If things go well ill continue t3 for a month.

----------


## austinite

> Will do. Checking daily. Seems to be going back down. If things go well ill continue t3 for a month.


Sounds good.  :Smilie:  Have a powerful day.

----------


## kelkel

> Great link. I need to speak to you tonight about Arginine. Got a bunch of errands to run but I have some info to share before I make a call with respect to Arginine.


You know how to reach me.

----------


## gearbox

> Great link. I need to speak to you tonight about Arginine. Got a bunch of errands to run but I have some info to share before I make a call with respect to Arginine.


I want in on the call

----------


## austinite

> I want in on the call


You changed your number!

----------


## gearbox

> You changed your number!


I had too! Some glittery stripper got ahold of it. you know how that story ends. Dam...

well pm me the info or something so I can educate myself more on arginine. I currently take 5g a day.

----------


## SEOINAGE

Question. For individuals like myself, who is basically a hyper excreter or metabolizer. Typically I need double most other things, or at least need them more frequently for them to work. If my plan is 50 mcg of t3 for double physiological doses, should I be splitting it up because of this or taking more? I know you say not to complicate things, but I wonder if this will be a serious issue for me to get it right. I imagine I will need to experiment to get it right, but was wondering if you might have any input on this, or if one route of experiment is better than the other, mainly up frequency vs up dose. Currently just started 50 mcg once a day.

----------


## austinite

> Question. For individuals like myself, who is basically a hyper excreter or metabolizer. Typically I need double most other things, or at least need them more frequently for them to work. If my plan is 50 mcg of t3 for double physiological doses, should I be splitting it up because of this or taking more? I know you say not to complicate things, but I wonder if this will be a serious issue for me to get it right. I imagine I will need to experiment to get it right, but was wondering if you might have any input on this, or if one route of experiment is better than the other, mainly up frequency vs up dose. Currently just started 50 mcg once a day.


It wont hurt to split the dose, but it won't add any results. Half life is too long for that to matter, regardless of your level of metabolism.

----------


## gearbox

> It wont hurt to split the dose, but it won't add any results. Half life is too long for that to matter, regardless of your level of metabolism.


nice. got my half life question answered  :Smilie: 

I started this morning at 50, ill keep you posted

----------


## gearbox

Aust. Want me to start a t3 log. Or just report a little info on my experience In here?

Day 1- Noticed a slight increase in perspiration during workout. Nothing major but noticeable

----------


## austinite

> Aust. Want me to start a t3 log. Or just report a little info on my experience In here?
> 
> Day 1- Noticed a slight increase in perspiration during workout. Nothing major but noticeable


Whatever you want to do pal. People love logs so they can see the progress. Maybe an log update once or twice a week? That would be great!

----------


## BigPimpin76

Austinite? A question Bro?

What can be taken in regards to being fatigued? Any tips?
Thanks in advance

Sent from my iPad using Forum

----------


## austinite

^ Check my supplement thread. Many things listed there.

http://forums.steroid.com/supplement...tml?highlight=

----------


## SEOINAGE

> It wont hurt to split the dose, but it won't add any results. Half life is too long for that to matter, regardless of your level of metabolism.


Well I'm 5 days in, and feeling nothing so far. AR-R T3 for reference 50 mcg early evening. I'm starting to wonder, since I tried looking up the half life and I'm hearing crap like 10 hours, and then I hear 2-3 days. Then you read about how people used to multi dose the stuff like 6 times a day, but then realized that wasn't needed so they went to 2-3 times a day. My body temp in the armpit is 96.6 F. And it's been pretty consistent there. 

The one thing I have noticed is weights don't feel heavy, I'm still weaker from calories being cut, but I feel pretty good warming up and ramping up weight. It could be related to other changes I have made however.

----------


## GFA

Quick update.

Aborted after day 10. Fatigue was just too much. 

Lost 5 lbs, approximately 1/2 a day. Guess if I kept going I could drop 15lbs in a month which is double the normal rate of 2lbs a week.

----------


## AliYousaf

So what would be the correct blood panel for T3? I am at mid cycle going to get RBC. what else do I need to monitor ??

----------


## austinite

^ You can monitor whatever you want. I just monitor temperature and blood pressure.

----------


## AliYousaf

Actually I am having tremors (if that's the name for shaking like a 102 years old grandpa) with cycling T3 all day long. I am using 120 mcg a day with Test Enan 250 mg twice a week. 
I usually have the same kind of sides while cycling Clen . Thought T3 would save me from that. My heart beat is unusually faster and irregular and I can feel it all day long specially when I am at ease lazing around or when trying to sleep. These sides from T3 are expected as your post mentions but I want to make sure that everything is in order. I am going to get TEST FREE , total, estradiol, CBC, complete Thyroid panel tomorrow. Is there anything else I want to know. ??

----------


## austinite

Your dose is too high. Cut it in half. Very simple.

----------


## whynot960

I am 45 5'9" and 260lbs and found out I have Hypothyroid, I on 75mcgs of synthroid a day and was wondering if I can take t3 while on this. I have tried many times in the past few yrs to lose weight and nothing now that I been on synthroid for a few months I am planning to go at it again and was thinking of taking t3 to maybe help out. but its really hard and I wonder if I can even lose any weight doing it right with this problem, I dont motivated at all I am always really tired. thanks
mike

----------


## austinite

^ Probably not a good idea if you're in treatment. Are you a testosterone therapy patient?

----------


## SEOINAGE

> I am 45 5'9" and 260lbs and found out I have Hypothyroid, I on 75mcgs of synthroid a day and was wondering if I can take t3 while on this. I have tried many times in the past few yrs to lose weight and nothing now that I been on synthroid for a few months I am planning to go at it again and was thinking of taking t3 to maybe help out. but its really hard and I wonder if I can even lose any weight doing it right with this problem, I dont motivated at all I am always really tired. thanks
> mike


There are some doctors who will prescribe t3 along with synthroid, although it will be in small amounts. You can ask your doctor about it. Or a dessicated thyroid medication would have t4 and t3 in it. But you really should worry about getting dialed in on your dosage before you consider super-physiological doses for fat loss, you likely won't need it once you are optimal anyways and get your diet and training in check.

----------


## whynot960

> ^ Probably not a good idea if you're in treatment. Are you a testosterone therapy patient?


No I am not on any kind of testosterone therapy or anything.
Seoinage,Austinite thanks for the reply. I will start working out and doing cardio and hopefully when My levels are dialed in the fat will start coming off.

----------


## lachu543

Can T3 make tiredness/lethargic?

----------


## austinite

> Can T3 make tiredness/lethargic?


Yes. Should wear off after 10 days or so.

----------


## Rida5d

Hi austinite, 
Is there any problem running evista and t3 at the same time ?

----------


## Sicko

Thanks Austinite... I have been interested in doing a cycle of T3 for a while now but did not fully understand the compounds properties and its function. Great read, solid info and easy on the brain...

----------


## lachu543

> Yes. Should wear off after 10 days or so.


Hmm... i'm on:

350mg Test Prop
350mg Tren Ace
350mg NPP
50mcg T3 ( Tiromel )
12,5mg Exe eod
0,5mg Caber e4d

I'm taking 50mcg 30mins before breakfast. I feel fking tired/lethargy, in the afternoon most of all, muscles weak, less regeneration from training. And i'm in 3rd week on T3.

----------


## SmashIt

Lachu -

How long were you doing this cycle before you added the T3? Asking because I thought fatigue was a side of Caber.

----------


## austinite

> Hi austinite, 
> Is there any problem running evista and t3 at the same time ?


Yes. Combination can force TSH to become over productive, even in the presence of exo T3.

----------


## austinite

> Hmm... i'm on:
> 
> 350mg Test Prop
> 350mg Tren Ace
> 350mg NPP
> 50mcg T3 ( Tiromel )
> 12,5mg Exe eod
> 0,5mg Caber e4d
> 
> I'm taking 50mcg 30mins before breakfast. I feel fking tired/lethargy, in the afternoon most of all, muscles weak, less regeneration from training. And i'm in 3rd week on T3.


Get blood work. You should not be surprised when you run so many compounds. Probably the tren.

----------


## Rida5d

> Yes. Combination can force TSH to become over productive, even in the presence of exo T3.


Thnx for not kicking my ass
I read first page 200 times last few months and yet I asked that stupid question..

----------


## bigpup33

hi,
just a quick question regarding t3 in a cycle.

I plan on doin a 12 week cycle of 500mg test per week, hcg ai, proper pct etc

im thinking around week 8 or 9 introducing say 50mcg of T3 a day, how much would this hinder my gains (still eating +500cal surplus) also would it make me to lethargic?
I was thinkn of running it right up until a week before PCT as I would still have test in my system, also my metabolism would be slower once im off the T3 in my early days of PCT.
anyone thoughts would be greatly appreciated  :Smilie:

----------


## austinite

> Thnx for not kicking my ass
> I read first page 200 times last few months and yet I asked that stupid question..


lol. it was a good question buddy. 




> hi,
> just a quick question regarding t3 in a cycle.
> 
> I plan on doin a 12 week cycle of 500mg test per week, hcg ai, proper pct etc
> 
> im thinking around week 8 or 9 introducing say 50mcg of T3 a day, how much would this hinder my gains (still eating +500cal surplus) also would it make me to lethargic?
> I was thinkn of running it right up until a week before PCT as I would still have test in my system, also my metabolism would be slower once im off the T3 in my early days of PCT.
> anyone thoughts would be greatly appreciated


It won't hinder gains. Running T3 for 3 weeks is a waste of time.

----------


## bigpup33

lets say I start T3 on the 4th week of my cycle and supplement it right thru to PCT, would this yield better results?

----------


## austinite

Is 5 extra weeks on T3 better? If that's what you're asking, then yes.

----------


## NEFLRick

Not sure if I'm way off here but looking for advice:

I'm on 200mg test every week. Lost over 50lbs and am looking to get down quite a bit more (about 40 more lbs). Thinking of doing a cycle using T3 but also considering doing albuterol or clen (although I think I've been ruling out clen because of sides). Also considering running growth (low dose) at the same time.

Diet has been dialed in as has training. Been seeing great gains in strength and lost a lot of bf. Looking to continue/accelerate the trend.

Am I way off base on what I'm considering?

----------


## austinite

I tend to stay away from Clenbuterol . I really believe it's garbage and dangerous. Albuterol would be my choice if I ever chose to couple it with T3. That being said, congrats on your weight loss thus far, you may however, want to look into why you're needing multiple compounds to make this work.

----------


## Chicagotarsier

Great progress Rick!

Austin,

I think people that are way overweight like me and the above usually have to deal with diabetis to some degree and Albuterol is one of the top no-nos (well as marketed and information from doctors) for dibetics. If I was about 80 lbs lighter at this moment I would be on albuterol vs clen . The exact reply from the Dr (picture this in Chinglish)

You dumb that kill you if diabetic.

So there is either real fear or real marketing on the product that makes us tubby-tubbies standoffish. I am sure the truth of the fear is the same truth on most thing...some idiot takes twice the max dose thinking it will work twice as good!! 

As far as needing multiple compounds. I am starting the Clen + T3 because I just want it DONE. I want the weight gone, period. Just want to get to a point where when I take a lab the thought is..if I was 4 points less bodyfat how would it impact that. It is hard to not be like the idiot example I gave, the drive and desire to "get back" since I started TRT is furious. How furious? I am weighing in grams my food I eat. Never considered that before in my life and it is now done without thought.




> I tend to stay away from Clenbuterol. I really believe it's garbage and dangerous. Albuterol would be my choice if I ever chose to couple it with T3. That being said, congrats on your weight loss thus far, you may however, want to look into why you're needing multiple compounds to make this work.

----------


## joebailey1271

Austin, i have been taking t3 for 3 weeks now at 50mcg daily, my temp. before starting was a 5 day average of 98.2, When i started the t3 it was about 99.1 for the first 2 weeks, now my temp is lower than when i started, like 97.5, Do you have any idea why, it does fluctuate later in the day, but my rising temp is low. Could the T3 gone bad?

----------


## Chicagotarsier

Are you taking ketotifen?


> Austin, i have been taking t3 for 3 weeks now at 50mcg daily, my temp. before starting was a 5 day average of 98.2, When i started the t3 it was about 99.1 for the first 2 weeks, now my temp is lower than when i started, like 97.5, Do you have any idea why, it does fluctuate later in the day, but my rising temp is low. Could the T3 gone bad?

----------


## NEFLRick

> I tend to stay away from Clenbuterol. I really believe it's garbage and dangerous. Albuterol would be my choice if I ever chose to couple it with T3. That being said, congrats on your weight loss thus far, you may however, want to look into why you're needing multiple compounds to make this work.


Austin:

So you suggest albut and T3 together then? Makes sense after reading your posts.  :Smilie: 

I'm not saying I _need_ multiple compounds to get to where I want to be, just thinking this may be a nice combination. I know a few people here who do something like what I'm looking at doing and they've had great success with minimal sides. I've come a long way so far and want to push it over the goal line (so to say). I turn 45 in August and want to hit my goal before then. Would like to be in the best shape of my life before I turn 45. In other words, I want to set another fairly aggressive goal.

With that said, I'm not opposed to changing my plans based on good advice. You, and others around here know a HELLUVA lot more than I do about all of this (I'm still a newbie). I've been able to learn a TON of things from everyone here and I do take the advice given seriously.

Chicago:

Thankfully, I have never fought with diabetes. So I've got that going for me.  :Wink:  But, seriously, even though I've lost a lot of weight, I wasn't obese. I've always had a lot of muscle because I've lifted for so many years. I wasn't motivated to cut the bf until I started trt. I revamped my diet totally and now eat extremely healthy (although not perfectly). It's made all of the difference in the world for me. Interestingly enough, I didn't eat terribly UNhealthy but I wasn't eating enough of the good stuff.

----------


## joebailey1271

> Are you taking ketotifen?


I dont, i thought u only needed that with clen or albuterol

----------


## austinite

> Great progress Rick!
> 
> Austin,
> 
> I think people that are way overweight like me and the above usually have to deal with diabetis to some degree and Albuterol is one of the top no-nos (well as marketed and information from doctors) for dibetics. If I was about 80 lbs lighter at this moment I would be on albuterol vs clen . The exact reply from the Dr (picture this in Chinglish)
> 
> You dumb that kill you if diabetic.
> 
> So there is either real fear or real marketing on the product that makes us tubby-tubbies standoffish. I am sure the truth of the fear is the same truth on most thing...some idiot takes twice the max dose thinking it will work twice as good!! 
> ...


He did not say he was diabetic and this thread is not tailored to diabetics. Not sure where all that came from.

----------


## austinite

> Austin:
> 
> So you suggest albut and T3 together then? Makes sense after reading your posts. 
> 
> I'm not saying I _need_ multiple compounds to get to where I want to be, just thinking this may be a nice combination. I know a few people here who do something like what I'm looking at doing and they've had great success with minimal sides. I've come a long way so far and want to push it over the goal line (so to say). I turn 45 in August and want to hit my goal before then. Would like to be in the best shape of my life before I turn 45. In other words, I want to set another fairly aggressive goal.
> 
> With that said, I'm not opposed to changing my plans based on good advice. You, and others around here know a HELLUVA lot more than I do about all of this (I'm still a newbie). I've been able to learn a TON of things from everyone here and I do take the advice given seriously.
> 
> Chicago:
> ...


I don't see the need for it. So no, I do not suggest it.

----------


## Chicagotarsier

Per Harvard Edu 30% of overweight people are diabetic and 70% + obese are diabetic. If he has dropped 50 and has more than that to go he is obese and the chances he is diabetic is very high. 7 out of 10 is a VERY good casino bet haha. If they are not being treated for it there is a good chance they have not been tested for it or are even aware they are diabetic.

15-20% of Type 2 are not overweight or obese...and doctors will not comment on THAT fact. The most common Type 2 is due to insulin absorption issues due to fat acting as a reflector to the substance.

Sooooo..I assume people with a good deal of fat have diabetic tendencies.




> He did not say he was diabetic and this thread is not tailored to diabetics. Not sure where all that came from.

----------


## austinite

lol. I wasnt looking for a lesson, but thanks. My point is that People with a good deal of fat should not be considering T3 at all. This isn't a miracle drug. Best to use something like my fat loss stack listed in this forum.

----------


## Chicagotarsier

I will be using your fat burning stack for 8 weeks after I finish my 10 week test of T3+Clen . It is way to Fn hot in the Phils to have the metabolism so high even with the ocean a 10 min walk away lol.. 


> lol. I wasnt looking for a lesson, but thanks. My point is that People with a good deal of fat should not be considering T3 at all. This isn't a miracle drug. Best to use something like my fat loss stack listed in this forum.

----------


## NEFLRick

> Per Harvard Edu 30% of overweight people are diabetic and 70% + obese are diabetic. If he has dropped 50 and has more than that to go he is obese and the chances he is diabetic is very high. 7 out of 10 is a VERY good casino bet haha. If they are not being treated for it there is a good chance they have not been tested for it or are even aware they are diabetic.
> 
> 15-20% of Type 2 are not overweight or obese...and doctors will not comment on THAT fact. The most common Type 2 is due to insulin absorption issues due to fat acting as a reflector to the substance.
> 
> Sooooo..I assume people with a good deal of fat have diabetic tendencies.


I appreciate your concern, however, I wasn't obese unless you're looking at the, "technical," definition which only takes into account height/weight. I had/have excess bf but that doesn't make one obese. Nobody would have looked at me and said, "Wow! That guy is FAT!"

With that said, it's not a bad thing to be concerned about. However, as I mentioned, I'm not diabetic, never have been and am not in danger of being so because, even though I was/am carrying more bf than I want to, I don't eat in such a way as to make me diabetic.

----------


## NEFLRick

Austin:

Question about T3. I went back and read your writeup again (I like to read through it, digest it, then read it again, I tend to pick up things.), anyway, you mentioned needing something to help stave off losing muscle. As I mentioned, I'm on TRT (200mg/wk). You mentioned 250mg is a good number. I'm guessing 200mg is close enough to be good as long as I don't go over 100mcg of T3 daily (which I don't plan on)? Also, as I mentioned, I'm thinking of running a growth cycle along with all of this but haven't totally made up my mind just yet. I'm guessing, if I do that, I'll be more than fine.

Just checking to make sure I'm not missing anything. Thanks.

----------


## austinite

> Austin:
> 
> Question about T3. I went back and read your writeup again (I like to read through it, digest it, then read it again, I tend to pick up things.), anyway, you mentioned needing something to help stave off losing muscle. As I mentioned, I'm on TRT (200mg/wk). You mentioned 250mg is a good number. I'm guessing 200mg is close enough to be good as long as I don't go over 100mcg of T3 daily (which I don't plan on)? Also, as I mentioned, I'm thinking of running a growth cycle along with all of this but haven't totally made up my mind just yet. I'm guessing, if I do that, I'll be more than fine.
> 
> Just checking to make sure I'm not missing anything. Thanks.


 I would increase your dose.

----------


## NEFLRick

> I would increase your dose.


Hmm, not sure it's possible the way I'm doing it now. Doc gives me pre-loaded syringes.  :Frown:  

I think I've decided to run growth though. I'm guessing that--along with the test--should be enough.

----------


## oldnsedentary

> I would increase your dose.


What about, say, a gram a week of test and about a half gram of tren ? Would that help? Maybe add some anavar at the end?

----------


## austinite

> What about, say, a gram a week of test and about a half gram of tren? Would that help? Maybe add some anavar at the end?


I have no idea what to say to that. I'm guessing you're joking.

----------


## NEFLRick

I'm just going to get some more test and add to my dose.

----------


## deltapapatango

> *Introduction*Many people, including myself experience a level of fatigue and even some achiness. This generally (for me at least) goes away after a week or so or when your body adjusts to all the T3. That is all I personally experience (as far as feeling something) from T3...


Definitely feeling achiness.

I am on day three - only dosed first day at 50mcg then 100 at day two. Felt muscle pumps like never before on day one. Day two I feel like an old man. Muscle aches and pains from post-workout and a general sluggish feeling.

Hopefully it passes soon. Workouts are tough when the pain hits you hard.

----------


## NEFLRick

What about T3 and women? My wife is considering doing it with me. Her diet has been on point much better than mine. Is there anything different? Maybe dosing?

----------


## austinite

> What about *T3 and women?* My wife is considering doing it with me. Her diet has been on point much better than mine. Is there anything different? Maybe dosing?


You might want to reach out to *thisangelbites* on this one. She is far more qualified to advise you than I am for female use.

----------


## Docd187123

Austin, if taking high/er doses, do you advise to break into 2 doses throughout the day or one single one?

----------


## NEFLRick

> You might want to reach out to *thisangelbites* on this one. She is far more qualified to advise you than I am for female use.


Thanks.

----------


## gearbox

> Definitely feeling achiness.
> 
> I am on day three - only dosed first day at 50mcg then 100 at day two. Felt muscle pumps like never before on day one. Day two I feel like an old man. Muscle aches and pains from post-workout and a general sluggish feeling.
> 
> Hopefully it passes soon. Workouts are tough when the pain hits you hard.


You should of ran t3 at 50mcg and wait for the results. Or jump to 100 mcg after a few weeks.

----------


## deltapapatango

I'll dial the dose down a little for a bit and see if sides go away.

Can't seem to sleep lately. I dropped the clen today and will see if that helps. Added t3 clen keto all at the same time.

----------


## hawk14dl

Just ordered some t3 today. Should arrive next week. On trt, my rx is 150mg a week but I've only been taking 120. I'm going to jump to the 150 while I run this. Planning on 50mcg for 4-6 weeks, maybe longer but I don't really want to lose too much

----------


## NEFLRick

Ok, so here's the plan as of right now. The T3 should be in this week.

Planning on doing 50mcg to start to see how I react to it.
Increasing test to 300mg/wk (on 200/wk now).
Diet is dialed in pretty tightly.

My question is, does this sound reasonable?

Also, I'm headed to Vegas for a long weekend with the boys in about 3 weeks. Wasn't going to use it out there. Obviously, the diet will be on hold for about 5 days. Then back to the grind. From what I've read, I should be alright doing this. Anything I should be aware of?

Thanks.

----------


## deltapapatango

> Austin, if taking high/er doses, do you advise to break into 2 doses throughout the day or one single one?


Anybody split the dose? Best time to take?

----------


## austinite

> Austin, if taking high/er doses, do you advise to break into 2 doses throughout the day or one single one?


Sorry I missed this. Never a need to split the dose.

----------


## austinite

> Anybody split the dose? Best time to take?


Timing does not matter.

----------


## Chicagotarsier

When using T3 as a true medication they say you can get away with dosing 2x a day. It is done on empty stomach. So Am-PM empty stomach split the dose.

Many bodybuilders say take it all on empty stomach in the morning and dosing does not matter due to the long halflife of the medicine.

^^^^^^^^^ What Austin said.

----------


## Docd187123

> Sorry I missed this. Never a need to split the dose.


Came to bump my question only to find it's already been answered lol. Thank you very much!

----------


## SEOINAGE

To the people concerned with dosing, you don't need to up your trt dose dramatically. I ran 75 mcg of t3 along with my trt dose of test, and 20 mg of winstrol . Increased in muscle mass. The thing I don't like about t3 is when i went from 50 mcg to 75 mcg fat loss was hindered because appetite went out of control, still had really low calorie days. But I don't think muscle loss is as bad as people are making it out to be, it helps if you are refeeding prior to intense resistance training sessions if your protocol allows that. But I really think the scare with t3 and muscle loss is a bit much. I also don't think t3 is the miracle some make it out to be and like austinite said make sure you are able to lose a lot of fat prior, and don't do this unless you are much lower on bodyfat, it doesn't just do it for you, especially if you struggle with controlling your appetite before hand, it's going to make matters worse. I don't know if all experience the appetite issues, but man it was brutal, I did make great progress however, but I was always really good about controlling things before, but this made it that much harder.

----------


## austinite

> To the people concerned with dosing, you don't need to up your trt dose dramatically. I ran 75 mcg of t3 along with my trt dose of test, and 20 mg of winstrol. Increased in muscle mass. The thing I don't like about t3 is when i went from 50 mcg to 75 mcg fat loss was hindered because appetite went out of control, still had really low calorie days. But I don't think muscle loss is as bad as people are making it out to be, it helps if you are refeeding prior to intense resistance training sessions if your protocol allows that. But I really think the scare with t3 and muscle loss is a bit much. I also don't think t3 is the miracle some make it out to be and like austinite said make sure you are able to lose a lot of fat prior, and don't do this unless you are much lower on bodyfat, it doesn't just do it for you, especially if you struggle with controlling your appetite before hand, it's going to make matters worse. I don't know if all experience the appetite issues, but man it was brutal, I did make great progress however, but I was always really good about controlling things before, but this made it that much harder.


Thanks for the input, keep in mind that adding 20 mg of winstrol is no longer considered a TRT dose of steroids . Of course you would do better and retain by adding more muscle saving compounds.

----------


## SEOINAGE

> Thanks for the input, keep in mind that adding 20 mg of winstrol is no longer considered a TRT dose of steroids. Of course you would do better and retain by adding more muscle saving compounds.


Yeah, i don't think my point was that clear in that regard. I hear of people thinking they need to run a lot more than a given trt amount, even an extra 50 mg goes a long ways. I did run 4 weeks at 50 mcg with under my trt dose with no other compounds as well, and a couple carb ups at the end of it and my muscles filled back out, didn't see any measurable muscle loss. Usually we are better off saving AAS for muscle mass, especially if you run PCT and aren't on TRT, the extra time on for less benefit adds up.

----------


## Black

I've been reading up on T3 lately, great article Austinite (I'm late to the party as usual).

I am planning a Test/Tren cycle here soon. Obviously if I'm going to add some T3 in, during a cycle would be the best time. However, the lethargy of Tren and possible lethargy of T3 has me concerned. I came across a post earlier where someone was running several compounds (including Tren) and was complaining of tiredness. Anyone else run Tren with T3 and care to comment?

Does the lethargy generally subside from T3 after the first week or two for most?

----------


## deltapapatango

Im not dragging my ass as much in the first week as I am in the second but I always feel down (not mood) in the second. Im gping to try albuterol soon to combat that. Clen is too strong.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

------

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> I've been reading up on T3 lately, great article Austinite (I'm late to the party as usual).
> 
> I am planning a Test/Tren cycle here soon. Obviously if I'm going to add some T3 in, during a cycle would be the best time. However, the lethargy of Tren and possible lethargy of T3 has me concerned. I came across a post earlier where someone was running several compounds (including Tren) and was complaining of tiredness. Anyone else run Tren with T3 and care to comment?
> 
> Does the lethargy generally subside from T3 after the first week or two for most?


My research indicates that it T3 lethargy doesn't abate in 2 weeks, you should dose down. Body is telling you the dosage is too high/body couldn't adjust. 

Btw. I am not running tren. Lol

----------


## Machdiesel

What are your thoughts about 50mcg for a lean bulK? IM on 200mg of test a week and coming off a cut using 100mcg of t3. First time using t3 and loved it and have been reading more about t3 while lean bulking. Is this counter productive, does it have benefits?

----------


## austinite

^ Yes, I used it during all bulking/cutting cycles.

----------


## Machdiesel

Just did a cut working up to 100mcg, was my first time using t3 and loved it. Transitioning into a lean bulk and decided to cut t3 to 50mcg a day, start out at 40/40/20 diet and slowly add carbs as needed.

----------


## tarmyg

Austinite,

In my new location I can only get PROLOID. This seems to have both T3/T4. Do you know if this drug will work in the same way as your described protocol?

Thanks

----------


## Machdiesel

Austin curious if you reccomend 25 or 50 while bulking. Although 25 is technically a replacemt dose most would prob get a small boost from it. Do you think 50 is to high?

----------


## austinite

> Austin curious if you reccomend 25 or 50 while bulking. Although 25 is technically a replacemt dose most would prob get a small boost from it. Do you think 50 is to high?


From the article... 




> To be quite honest, with T3, I don't ever pyramid or taper doses. I choose a dose, then I start and finish with the same dose. That being said, it takes a few trials and errors to find the sweet spot for T3. *So it wouldn't hurt to start at 50 mcg to see if you get a good response.* Increases would be ok to do in 20 to 25 mcg increments. But again, I never do. T3 is not like some other compounds that hit you in the face with side effects if you dose it a little off.





> So how much T3 total does your body naturally produce? We've already established that when you supplement with T3 or T4, your pituitary begins to see the exogenous doses and shuts down production. *You naturally produce approximately 25 micrograms of T3. So since we know that any oral administration of T3 is a replacement dose (meaning shuts you down), would it make sense to take 25 mcg of T3? Of course not!* What's the point of replacing exactly what I produce? That would be a complete waste. Honestly, in my opinion, I think it's even a waste to start at that dose. I know some folks like to "ramp up" the dose. But it's not necessary.


 :Smilie:

----------


## SEOINAGE

6 weeks post running t3 had some blood work done. Keep in mind I have had Hashimoto's, but through diet was able to get my tsh in mid 2's range and t3 upper end of scale with t4 right close to bottom.

here is current BW.
t3 free 2.9 Range 1.8-4.6 pg/ml
t4 free .86 Range .9-1.7 ng/dl
TSH 4.88 Range .27-4.2 uIU/ml

Doctor is suggesting Armor thyroid. Thinks possibly it is the cause of my low iron and lack of absorption. I have been supplementing iron at 45mg a day, my screwing with t3 kind of messes up his assumption that the thyroid is linked to lack of stomach acid and absorption, but it could still be an issue since I hadn't checked thyroid in over two years.

Thing is I have some hyper symptoms as well as some hypo symptoms. I don't know if I should give it more time first before jumping on this. Normally my TSH wouldn't be this high, so it should come down with some more time. Didn't really think recovery from t3 would take longer than 6 weeks.

Any thoughts or recommendations? Who knows, maybe this is just what I need, Overall at 50 mcg t3 I felt pretty good, 75 my hunger was overactive with my diet and I was waking up really early.

----------


## jaxbrah

Austinite, plrase tell me what you think about this. Im currently on week 6 of my 12 week test cyp cycle of 500mg a week. Since t3 needs to be taken with test. Should I hop on t3 in thr 2nd half of my cycle? Or will that hinder my gains too much?

My trt dose was 100mg before my cycle. Would it be dangerous to goto 250 a week for a few weeks after 12 weeks of 500?

Also, is it dangerous to use clen with t3?

----------


## jsam

Considering using T3 or clen to get bf% down be for I consider a cycle. Had blood work done yesterday will post results. Your post says to use it with test. Cant you use these for a while without test for some help getting bf down? Once bf% lowers stop t3 or clen for a period of time before starting a cycle? I've changed diet (have request for macros calculator) hitting gym cardio and weights just want a little help with fat burning

----------


## Docd187123

> Considering using T3 or clen to get bf% down be for I consider a cycle. Had blood work done yesterday will post results. Your post says to use it with test. Cant you use these for a while without test for some help getting bf down? Once bf% lowers stop t3 or clen for a period of time before starting a cycle? I've changed diet (have request for macros calculator) hitting gym cardio and weights just want a little help with fat burning


T3 is indiscriminate to whether it burns fat or muscle. AAS simply pushes it in favor of fat. If you take it without test you will be losing muscle which will indirectly raise your BF%....kind of counterproductive if you ask me.

----------


## jsam

Anything that would help to burn fat and not muscle?

----------


## Docd187123

> Anything that would help to burn fat and not muscle?


A good diet, good lifting program, prowler aka push/pull sled, HIIT... 

Don't rely on the compounds until you have the fundamentals in place otherwise you'll just gain the fat back once you come off

----------


## jsam

Ok question Answered. Been doing a lot of research and it all says about the same. Guess the newbie mentality is hard to shake been reading the first cycle thread over and over and it pretty much says what you did. I guess I was hoping someone was going to tell me there was a magic pill lmao. Patience is not my strongest attribute but working on it . Thanks

----------


## Docd187123

> Ok question Answered. Been doing a lot of research and it all says about the same. Guess the newbie mentality is hard to shake been reading the first cycle thread over and over and it pretty much says what you did. I guess I was hoping someone was going to tell me there was a magic pill lmao. Patience is not my strongest attribute but working on it . Thanks


I've got a magic pill and I'll sell it to you for $1,000,000,000 lol. But seriously, work on the patience and the results will come with consistency and dedication. It's what makes or breaks everybody in this game. Good luck to you in your endeavors!

----------


## jsam

Thanks. When I cycled last year I was a maniac. Worked out 7 days a week got upset if I had to miss would go in the middle of the night to make up for it. It's a shame I didn't find thus site then maybe I would still be in that zone. But as in my other posts it was a horrible experience under the guidance of a gym guru. Won't make that mistake again. I'm really starting to obsess on these threads and I'm learning a to and will keep educating before medicating

----------


## lachu543

1. Does anyone use T3+Clen while Low Carb/Keto diet? Or it need carbs intake to working?

2. I.a. Big A ( IFBB PRO ) from other famous BB Forum said that T3 allow use Clen for more than 2 weeks without receptor downregulation... any opinions?

----------


## Roughneck82

Plan on using some t3 on next cycle. I did blood work and threw in a thyroid panel so I knew where I was before started. T3 uptake was at 41. Currently running testPP 150 x3 and tren ace 100 x3 per week. When I run next cycle in about 4 months should I start out at 75mg since normally at 41

----------


## ScotchGuard02

You're the BOMB "A". This is a great post!

----------


## Sicko

> *Introduction*
> 
> There was a member earlier that was looking for a detailed T3 thread. We certainly have quite a few, but since this is one of my favorite compounds, I figured I'd post my thoughts on it and add it to the collection. My experience has only been with T3. I've had a short run with T4, and while I can tell you about it, my experience is very limited with T4. So I'll stick to T3. In order to understand what T3 does for us and how it works, we'll need to understand how the thyroid actually works. So that's where we're going to start. 
> 
> 
> *Explanation of the Thyroid Gland*
> 
> The thyroid gland sits in your neck just under the vocal cords and above your windpipe. So basically immediately below the "Adam's Apple" in your neck. Thyroid gland is part of your endocrine system. Recently, in my never ending search for vitamin D deficiency, I was led to the thyroid and had the pleasure of learning a whole lot about it. So let's get into its function...
> 
> ...


Thanks for the informative write up on T3.
I just purchased some last week and am going to have my first go with it.
Looking forward to seeing what it actually does combined with caloric deficient diet and daily mid level cardio.
Is it advised not to do HIIT training while running T3?

----------


## austinite

Doesnt matter what kind of training you do when on T3. 

Can you please edit your post and un-quote the original article? It makes the page too large and if I edit anything I need everyone to pay attention to the OP. 

Thanks.

----------


## Sfla80

Aust I posted recently in the Q&A about this and they linked to this article. Which answered almost all my questions. As always very informative with your threads. 

I see u have little experience with T4, but like for example marcus says he uses t4 because of how he reacts better to it. For a first time user how do you choose between the 2, and why do certain people have a prefence between the two. Is T4 converts to T3 in the liver anyways....this is why I confused. 

Also would you need to supplement taurine while supplementing T3. I started cramping on Albut before. and at a very low dose. 

And how close are th sides compared to Clen or Albut. I see your discriptions of the sides. But see that u normally do not experience most. 

If these answers are in your post im apologize. im going to re-read for the 3rd time now lol  :Smilie:

----------


## uhit

Just a quick question. 

As I like to play basketball and am quite enthusiastic about it, ever since I began taking T3 I have noticed no fat loss (from the scale or looking at the mirror), however instead I have noticed that my athletic ability has increased (verticle, sprint speed etc).

I have tested this by supplementing with T3 for 2 weeks and then not supplementing for T3 for 2 weeks and am 100% confident T3 makes me athletic. Could T3 potentially burn visceral fat better than visible fat?

Thoughts on this?

----------


## austinite

> Aust I posted recently in the Q&A about this and they linked to this article. Which answered almost all my questions. As always very informative with your threads. 
> 
> I see u have little experience with T4, but like for example marcus says he uses t4 because of how he reacts better to it. For a first time user how do you choose between the 2, and why do certain people have a prefence between the two. Is T4 converts to T3 in the liver anyways....this is why I confused. 
> 
> Also would you need to supplement taurine while supplementing T3. I started cramping on Albut before. and at a very low dose. 
> 
> And how close are th sides compared to Clen or Albut. I see your discriptions of the sides. But see that u normally do not experience most. 
> 
> If these answers are in your post im apologize. im going to re-read for the 3rd time now lol


Hey Sfla, 

I'm not quite sure why one would prefer T4 over T3, or vice versa. If you administer enough T4 to convert X-amount of T3, you should technically have a similar ending result. I've always used T3 without issues so I don't have an issue recommending it for a first timer. 

There are far more studies than otherwise, concluding negligible difference between T3 and T4 while treating deficiency patients. In fact, so many, that doctors/manufacturers began producing/prescribing a T3/T4 combination to eliminate the ideology that one is better than the other. This remains common practice today. These studies I refer to are recent; in the 2000's. 

I've heard of folks 'cramping' while cycling T3. I personally have not experienced this. But Taurine can be used to remedy the cramping if needed. 

T3 is not comparable to Clenbuterol with respect to side effects. Not for me at least. I will never use clenbuterol again as my body cannot handle it even at 40 mcg. Albuterol on the other hand, is mild with the side effects and can be compared to T3 with respect to side effects only. (completely different mechanism)

Hope that helps.

----------


## austinite

> Just a quick question. 
> 
> As I like to play basketball and am quite enthusiastic about it, ever since I began taking T3 I have noticed no fat loss (from the scale or looking at the mirror), however instead I have noticed that my athletic ability has increased (verticle, sprint speed etc).
> 
> I have tested this by supplementing with T3 for 2 weeks and then not supplementing for T3 for 2 weeks and am 100% confident T3 makes me athletic. Could T3 potentially burn visceral fat better than visible fat?
> 
> Thoughts on this?


Nope. T3 does not discriminate. I don't have a reply to your findings. That just doesn't make much sense to me. It sounds like a placebo effect found it's way to you via T3 regarding your elevated energy levels while playing sports.

----------


## Sfla80

> Hey Sfla,
> 
> I'm not quite sure why one would prefer T4 over T3, or vice versa. If you administer enough T4 to convert X-amount of T3, you should technically have a similar ending result. I've always used T3 without issues so I don't have an issue recommending it for a first timer.
> 
> There are far more studies than otherwise, concluding negligible difference between T3 and T4 while treating deficiency patients. In fact, so many, that doctors/manufacturers began producing/prescribing a T3/T4 combination to eliminate the ideology that one is better than the other. This remains common practice today. These studies I refer to are recent; in the 2000's.
> 
> I've heard of folks 'cramping' while cycling T3. I personally have not experienced this. But Taurine can be used to remedy the cramping if needed.
> 
> T3 is not comparable to Clenbuterol with respect to side effects. Not for me at least. I will never use clenbuterol again as my body cannot handle it even at 40 mcg. Albuterol on the other hand, is mild with the side effects and can be compared to T3 with respect to side effects only. (completely different mechanism)
> ...


Thanks austinite it did help.

Side note...did by any chance u see my new thread about the NOW product I'm interested in trying for daily regimen. I posted a link. The thread is like 2 below this one.

----------


## austinite

Yes. I am the most anti multi vitamin person in the world  :Smilie:

----------


## Sfla80

> Yes. I am the most anti multi vitamin person in the world


Lmao ok ty sir

----------


## CanisLupus

I have a question. I recently started back on t3 after a break. I had an injury that kept me from working out, so I cruised and cut (I was already cutting) while waiting, taking about 50mg t3 a day (up to 75 for a little while). for around 8 weeks. After about a 4 week break, I started back on 25mg for a blast and bulk. I know you've stated that 25 mg doesn't do much, but my resting bpm is up about 30% when I take it. I went from 90 or so to 120-125.

I guess if I have a question here it's: Why is 25mg having that much effect on me? Is my natural t3 production not being suppressed? Maybe my t3 is overdosed? I don't really want to go back to 50mg because I was burning up on that dosage. I don't particularly like how I feel taking t3, but it's incredibly effective for me.

----------


## austinite

Could be overdosed, could be that you're under-producing. Your baseline is lower than the average male. If 25mcg is working, stay there.

----------


## 2iron

Good easy info as always.

if it has already been determined that my pituitary does not work as far as testosterone . (Even though test is low my LH remains in low normal range) Does that mean that it does not send the the right amount of tsh to my thyroid as well?

----------


## adrenaline99

Hey Austin, do you know if Nolvadex can be safely run with T3?

----------


## mechsubrat

Hi Austin,

Posted Few Pics. Please see this and let me know will T3 Cycle help me get this pot belly away. Tried a lot of crunches and now I think the back will be gone with gaining nothing. I will continue workout but want to know something to get rid of this quickly so that I feel more motivated and confident.

How long should I take T3 and Expect this to be a trimmed one.

I know its embarrassing in the middle I am jumping in and asking this question, but please help me answer.

Regards
Mech

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Hi Austin, Posted Few Pics. Please see this and let me know will T3 Cycle help me get this pot belly away. Tried a lot of crunches and now I think the back will be gone with gaining nothing. I will continue workout but want to know something to get rid of this quickly so that I feel more motivated and confident. How long should I take T3 and Expect this to be a trimmed one. I know its embarrassing in the middle I am jumping in and asking this question, but please help me answer. Regards Mech


Jump to nutritional forum. Post up stats, sample day of meals and your goals. You will get farther along with diet then will with t3 IMHO.

----------


## mechsubrat

> Jump to nutritional forum. Post up stats, sample day of meals and your goals.


Posted but nothing is moving much. Hopefully I am doing something wrong.




> t3 IMHO.


What is IMHO

----------


## SOL!D5NAK3

hi austinite, what's your opinion about taking t3 on empty stomach, and do you recommend spliting the dosages? 25 mornin - 25 pre workout (5pm) ?

--



> What is IMHO


in my (her) humble opinion

----------


## austinite

Does not matter if empty stomach or not. No need to split dose. Timing does not matter.

----------


## uhit

Does T3 increase appetite? Or is appetite not affected when supplementing with T3

----------


## NACH3

Great read... Was just asking someone about this... Think I may add T3 to my PROP/NPP cycle! Makes sense with Nandrolone ! Thanks as always!

----------


## jolter604

wow i was going to run some t3 in a couple of months but i was also going to run ralox,so i am glad i read your post you saved me from some bad times....

----------


## bethdoth

Just started T3 (50mcg) yesterday in conjunction with my winter cut. Gotta say I do feel a bit different the past day and a half. A bit flush, warm, and woke up 3 times last night, I will check my temp tonight. I hope it helps me cut down to at least 12% BF, figure I am at about 18 or 19 now. Started HIIT fasted 3 mornings a week and will continue lifting 4-5 days a week. Lately I have been moving weights I didn't think I would be moving at 53!

----------


## austinite

> Just started T3 (50mcg) yesterday in conjunction with my winter cut. Gotta say I do feel a bit different the past day and a half. A bit flush, warm, and woke up 3 times last night, I will check my temp tonight. I hope it helps me cut down to at least 12% BF, figure I am at about 18 or 19 now. Started HIIT fasted 3 mornings a week and will continue lifting 4-5 days a week. Lately I have been moving weights I didn't think I would be moving at 53!


Looking good, rhoag! Keep us posted on your progress!

----------


## Java Man

Great read, as always. There is so much conflicting info about supplementation. It's hard to know what to trust. I always trust what you write. I don't know how I missed this last year. I've been kicking around the idea of T3 for a while now. I'll probably give it a shot this year.

----------


## austinite

> Great read, as always. There is so much conflicting info about supplementation. It's hard to know what to trust. I always trust what you write. I don't know how I missed this last year. I've been kicking around the idea of T3 for a while now. I'll probably give it a shot this year.


 thanks for the kind words, J man! Hope all is well with you.

----------


## BARKODE

Hello austinite. I'm really interested in doing this run. I really want to get fcking shredded for the summer. Currently I'm at 6'2" 240lbs. I'm at a deficit. Diet, training, and sleep are in check.

Cutting at around 2200kcals/day. Currently doing Ephedrine + Norcodrene + Erase Pro + Supremacy 2.0(Forskolin). Do you have any recommended dosage for Clen and T3? Is it really necessary to run an anabolic steroid ? I've never used any anabolics in my life and I'm quite scared about it for now. Please advice! Thanks.

----------


## Java Man

> thanks for the kind words, J man! Hope all is well with you.


Yep yep. I got really sick last July. Parenteral feeding from acute pancreatitis + ileus. Had to shut down all my digestive system for over a month. Not even water. Not a good time! Got am extensive DVT from the picc line. Couldn't lift from July until a few weeks ago. Doctors orders. Warfarin and Lovenox for 5 months to round out the end of the year. Lol. No picnic! But I'm fully recovered now. Enough about me :h I hide in Marcus' thread mostly these days. I still lurk about from time to time!

Your articles are gems.

----------


## gorog25

Hey Austinite,

Very impressive writing you did very well actually I love all your articles.

I would have two questions to you regardless of T3. I started at 0.25ml (50mcg) yesterday and I plan to take it ED until my PCT starts. (8 Weeks)

When should I notice temperature increase? 
How long should I wait until start to increase the dose?

I am on the second day and have not noticed anything yet only a bad diarrhea. Actually I started T3 with your over the counter stack. The only adjustment I did is to increase Sinephryne to 63mg

Could Sinephryne cause diarrhea?

----------


## austinite

> When should I notice temperature increase?


Less than a week.




> How long should I wait until start to increase the dose?


I don't recommend increasing dose. No need. 




> Could Sinephryne cause diarrhea?


Not likely at the right dose. And fyi.. I do not recommend coupling Synephrine with T3.

----------


## gorog25

Ok thank you austinite.

----------


## gorog25

Well it seams Ar-r 's stuff not working on me. I mean I am on 0.25ml and on the 7th day and no signs at all.
I decided to increase it to 0.50ml what is 100mcg I believe.
I am currently on 500ml Test E a week. Is this amount enough to save muscle?

----------


## austinite

You mean 500 MG (not ml), yes, plenty.

----------


## KML

> Ephedrine is the reference for ECA.


 Austinite in your opinion would it beneficial to stack T3 an Clen ??

----------


## austinite

> Austinite in your opinion would it beneficial to stack T3 an Clen ??


No. I do not recommend this.

----------


## breakthrough

I started off doing a Clen /T3 Cycle. I discontinued the Clen after a couple days and just ran T3. I am now a few weeks in and I my workouts are suffering due to the shortness of breath. I also get anxiety and chest pain. I am going to go from 90mcg to 50mcg and see how that works but I can feel the effect shortly after taking it.

----------


## bethdoth

After the first week at 50mcg I bumped up to 75mcg. Been at 75 for 10 days now. I am not sure if it's the T3 or a combination of the T3 and a slight change in my workouts and diet. Well, more than a slight diet change...I stopped drinking on Feb 2nd. Anyway, I have went from 213 to 203 in 13 days. I know 10 pounds is not much for some people but, when you are already fairly lean 10 pounds is quite a bit. I have increased my test to 200mg a week (100 subq every 3.5 days) and increased my stane to 6.25mg every day.
I will say I do not feel as strong at the gym and am dead tired at night. But, I have made the cardinal mistake...changing to many things at once. I have changed my workout to two weeks very high (18-20 reps), two weeks med reps (10-12) then one week low reps (5-6) then start all over. The high reps are a pain...literally... most for some reason go for 10 reps but when you go for 20 and you are feeling a bit fatigued at 10 ... well you really have to push. Every muscle in my body is sore (good sore but sore). I did have my BF% checked and I came in at 17% (CALIPERS) it's just a reference point to start from!

----------


## bethdoth

Follow up: Weight has plateaued at 201 202. Did labs to prepare for an upcoming cycle. Everything was good except my tsh was low .022 and my Absolute Eos was a big zero! I did stop taking T3 for 2 days prior to the lab and hoped everything would be normal. I am going to continue taking the T3 till after my 8 week cycle. Then I am going back to just hormone replacement again.

----------


## BARKODE

Austinite, you think it's fine to use oral PH to go with T3? Something like DMZ 3.0 or something. I'm currently on 1-AD & 4-AD and really want to try T3 on my next cycle along with a mild compound like DMZ.

I'm 2 weeks in my current cycle. You think I should go ahead and start T3?

----------


## edmondle

Very good info

----------


## Rida5d

Hi austinite ..
I'm on week 5 of a test only cycle @ 625 mg/week .. I'm gyno prone and that's why I'm on ralox at 60 mg daily just to be on the safe side..

Today I received my ar-r t3 and I want to use it ..

I ll stop the ralox , and start nolvadex as evista and t3 don't go well together ..

Is this what you will do if u were me? 

Thnx.

----------


## solesrch

New to the world of T3 but this read makes me want to do it. Thanks for the post.

----------


## austinite

> Hi austinite ..
> I'm on week 5 of a test only cycle @ 625 mg/week .. I'm gyno prone and that's why I'm on ralox at 60 mg daily just to be on the safe side..
> 
> Today I received my ar-r t3 and I want to use it ..
> 
> I ll stop the ralox , and start nolvadex as evista and t3 don't go well together ..
> 
> Is this what you will do if u were me? 
> 
> Thnx.


Yes. Exactly what I would do. Good call.

----------


## Rida5d

Much appreciated pal.. Thnx a lot..

----------


## Pohjolainen

looking to get some input on my blood work while on T3.
Unfortunately I dont have any blood work before I started using T3.
Current T3 dosage is 75 mcg ed for 3 months

my results:
TSH .015 range uIu/ML .450-4.5
Thyroxine (t4) .7 range ug/dl 4.5-12.0
T3 Uptake 46 Range 24-39
Free Thyroxine index .3 range 1.2-4.9

----------


## Wintermaul

Many people talk about when coming off T3 you should restrict kcal to prevent fat-gain. Then again, a strict diet of deficiency in kcal causes T3 to automatically down-regulate. Isnt the diet thing a bad thing then? Isnt better to eat little more and gain some fat and then get T3 up faster...?

----------


## MR-FQ320

I'm never using t3 again and honestly can't see a use for it

----------


## athletic.guy

A low TSH = OVER active thyroid.

Low TSH = high T3 (or T4) 

Give it a good couple week after last dose before getting blood tested.

I used T3 @ 50ug ed for 3 months and TSH, T3 was back to normal a month later.

----------


## Pohjolainen

Thanks for the inputs: Wintermaul, MR-FQ320, and athletic.guy.

----------


## mattybee123

Been looking for something like this for a while, thank you!

----------


## The_Crawfish

Austin, currently on 160mg/wk trt protocol. Is this enough to stave off muscle wasting with a 50mcg t3 dose, or should I bump up my t-cyp??

----------


## jwh7699

I was actually going to ask the exact same thing.  :Smilie:  I take the same amount of Test Cyp 160mg, split into two doses a week. Started taking .25mg of Arimidex 1 x a week, two weeks ago. 

I want to start on T3, but want to prevent muscle wasting. Thoughts? Thanks!!

TSH (Thyroid) 2.090 (0.450 -4.500)
Thyroxine (T4) 5.8 (4.5 - 12.0)
T3 Uptake 37 (24 - 39)
Free Thyroxine Index 2.1 (1.2 - 4.9)
Triiodothyronine (T3) 93 (71 - 180)

----------


## Easyroller

Thank you for this post extremely informative would you say its a safe compound to run on a first cycle which would be test e only

----------


## usorillaz

Austinite, I've seen people comment that liquid form of T3 is worthless. Ar-r .com sells a liquid version that seems to have good reviews. Would you recommend buying T3 from their?

----------


## SOL!D5NAK3

hey guys does anyone used t4 instead of t3 ?? i don't mean t4 and hgh just t4 and aas for a cutting cycle, i read that if the body needs it ,will convert it into t3 so even if you take 400mcg of t4 you get t3 in normal dosage of the body is that true??

----------


## Pericu

Austinite!

Been taking T3 since 3 weeks. First I did 50mcg with no big temperature change, then I went up to 75mcg and my temperature went up and stayed at about 37.1. Now the last couple of days it went down to 36,7 again. Always measuring under the same conditions with a ear measurer. 
So, what would you recommend proceeding? Staying at 75mcg or even go to 100mcg too increase temperature again?

----------


## austinite

> Austinite!
> 
> Been taking T3 since 3 weeks. First I did 50mcg with no big temperature change, then I went up to 75mcg and my temperature went up and stayed at about 37.1. Now the last couple of days it went down to 36,7 again. Always measuring under the same conditions with a ear measurer. 
> So, what would you recommend proceeding? Staying at 75mcg or even go to 100mcg too increase temperature again?


I would find another source.

----------


## Pericu

> I would find another source.


Yeah, that's what I did already. Should arrive in the next days. 

Just to understand the mechanism. 

When I found the dosage of where my body temperature increases (in this case 75mcg a day) then this will probably allways be the dosage for me? Are there circumstances where the dosage needed could change? Or do I from now on know, what dosage to start/take whenever I take T3?

Maybe it's a stupid question but still not obvious to me :-)

----------


## gearbox

> Yeah, that's what I did already. Should arrive in the next days. 
> 
> Just to understand the mechanism. 
> 
> When I found the dosage of where my body temperature increases (in this case 75mcg a day) then this will probably allways be the dosage for me? Are there circumstances where the dosage needed could change? Or do I from now on know, what dosage to start/take whenever I take T3?
> 
> Maybe it's a stupid question but still not obvious to me :-)


It matters what your normal body temp and how much it increases. i little increase overall can have a profound effect. I would stick to the level that doesn't raise your temp at all, or very little. T3 at 50mcg does wonders. I know many people that do well on this amount. However, you need to give it time. I personally like 2 weeks. You will see a good change.

Dosing should not need to change.
Start at 50mcg, and stated already by Aust.

----------


## SpotMe87

very interesting....going to be giving t3 a try for first time soon

----------


## IronClydes

I've read elsewhere http://www.************.com/forum/an...ing-doses.html that you want to run your protein real high (1.5-2g per pound bodyweight) in addition to the AAS to save muscle. Do you agree with this?

tduff




> *Introduction*
> 
> There was a member earlier that was looking for a detailed T3 thread. We certainly have quite a few, but since this is one of my favorite compounds, I figured I'd post my thoughts on it and add it to the collection. My experience has only been with T3. I've had a short run with T4, and while I can tell you about it, my experience is very limited with T4. So I'll stick to T3. In order to understand what T3 does for us and how it works, we'll need to understand how the thyroid actually works. So that's where we're going to start. 
> 
> 
> *Explanation of the Thyroid Gland*
> 
> The thyroid gland sits in your neck just under the vocal cords and above your windpipe. So basically immediately below the "Adam's Apple" in your neck. Thyroid gland is part of your endocrine system. Recently, in my never ending search for vitamin D deficiency, I was led to the thyroid and had the pleasure of learning a whole lot about it. So let's get into its function...
> 
> ...

----------


## FONZY007

> very interesting....going to be giving t3 a try for first time soon


Know the thread is a little old, but I have a question. Has anyone ever get weakness in the legs. This was the only supplement that I was using and losing weight like crazy at 60mcgs a day of T3. I assumed since I wasn't Hungry that it could of been the lack of food. Did it to me twice at different times after about 6 to 8 weeks in.I would just take my trt dose and always consumed high protein diet. 

Just want to see if anyone else got any side effects. I might of been deficient in something. I would also do IF like twice a week and made it easy on T3, I would have to force myself to eat.

----------


## numbere

> Know the thread is a little old, but I have a question. Has anyone ever get weakness in the legs. This was the only supplement that I was using and losing weight like crazy at 60mcgs a day of T3. I assumed since I wasn't Hungry that it could of been the lack of food. Did it to me twice at different times after about 6 to 8 weeks in.I would just take my trt dose and always consumed high protein diet. 
> 
> Just want to see if anyone else got any side effects. I might of been deficient in something. I would also do IF like twice a week and made it easy on T3, I would have to force myself to eat.


Weak legs like you're about to fall over, or weak legs like you have no strength and are achy?

----------


## FONZY007

> Weak legs like you're about to fall over, or weak legs like you have no strength and are achy?


Weak legs like about to fall over, seen my back specialist and he didn't think it was due to my back. He thinks it brain related lol.

----------


## numbere

> Weak legs like about to fall over, seen my back specialist and he didn't think it was due to my back. He thinks it brain related lol.


Damn brain related, that's not cool.

No I've never had that side but I wouldn't be surprised if it were from t3.

It has some crazy side effects.

----------


## FONZY007

> Damn brain related, that's not cool.
> 
> No I've never had that side but I wouldn't be surprised if it were from t3.
> 
> It has some crazy side effects.


That's what that Dr. Said then my GP said it was back related, I don't know, discontinued T3 and went back to normal in 2 days.

----------


## Slacker78

Austinite, great info. Question: Does testosterone in itself increments T3 concentration as it lower TBG availability and increase T3/T4 ratio ???

----------


## jaxbrah

the OP made t3 seem relatively safe. Austinite could you explain why a lot of people claim t3 to be dangerous and will never use it?

----------


## Mr.BB

> Know the thread is a little old, but I have a question. Has anyone ever get weakness in the legs. This was the only supplement that I was using and losing weight like crazy at 60mcgs a day of T3. I assumed since I wasn't Hungry that it could of been the lack of food. Did it to me twice at different times after about 6 to 8 weeks in.I would just take my trt dose and always consumed high protein diet. 
> 
> Just want to see if anyone else got any side effects. I might of been deficient in something. I would also do IF like twice a week and made it easy on T3, I would have to force myself to eat.


Yes, I got weakness all over. 25mcg first day felt great, 50mcg 2nd day felt good lots of energy, 50mcg 3rd day felt a bit off decided not to increase, from here on I kept going worse to the point of thinking I was coming down with something. Pain in whole body, totally foggy brain, could not train or do anything, only got to 6 or 7th day at 50mcg. After a couple of days off I was fine again.

----------


## KMais

Why there is not need for T4 together?
Which the difference between T3 50mcg single dose/d AND T3 25mcg two doses/d?
T3 + L-tyrosine + caffeine is better?

----------


## numbere

> Why there is not need for T4 together?
> Which the difference between T3 50mcg single dose/d AND T3 25mcg two doses/d?
> T3 + L-tyrosine + caffeine is better?


Because t4 is converted into t3. 

The half life of t3 is about 18 hours. Due to this once a day dosing is sufficient.

You really don't need to take anything else but t3 for great results.

----------


## austinite

> the OP made t3 seem relatively safe. Austinite could you explain why a lot of people claim t3 to be dangerous and will never use it?


I have no idea why anyone would claim it's not safe. Anything that is abused can be dangerous, even water. T3 is safe when used as outlined and can be used for as long as you wish, with no harm whatsoever and a near instant recovery.

----------


## DocToxin8

I was thinking about using T4, have tried it just as an experiment a couple of times, noticed that 200mcgs caused me to go from freezing with a lot of clothes on (winter time) to using a t shirt and sweating in a couple of hours. 
This only happened the first time I tried it tough, (I often have very high T4 and high TSH "naturally" on blood tests, probably influenced by AAS)

But, I don't need it for cutting really. I was thinking about the fact that it should increase protein synthesis as well as breakdown, and with a blast that includes slin it could perhaps increase anabolism and fat loss at the same time. 

I am however more skeptical about T4 than T3 due to its long half life, and whether that would affect recovery. 
(I've seen studies on people wrongly put on T4 for up to 20 years and they all recovered, so I'm not dreading any permanent shut down, but weeks or months of feeling bad)


But more importantly, does thyroid meds have any noticable function in regards to gaining muscle, or is it just a fat loss aid in your experience?

----------


## Mr.BB

Just fat loss. They are catabolic.

Powerfull stuff, cannot stand T3.

----------


## hammerheart

> I was thinking about using T4, have tried it just as an experiment a couple of times, noticed that 200mcgs caused me to go from freezing with a lot of clothes on (winter time) to using a t shirt and sweating in a couple of hours. 
> This only happened the first time I tried it tough, (I often have very high T4 and high TSH "naturally" on blood tests, probably influenced by AAS)
> 
> But, I don't need it for cutting really. I was thinking about the fact that it should increase protein synthesis as well as breakdown, and with a blast that includes slin it could perhaps increase anabolism and fat loss at the same time. 
> 
> I am however more skeptical about T4 than T3 due to its long half life, and whether that would affect recovery. 
> (I've seen studies on people wrongly put on T4 for up to 20 years and they all recovered, so I'm not dreading any permanent shut down, but weeks or months of feeling bad)
> 
> 
> But more importantly, does thyroid meds have any noticable function in regards to gaining muscle, or is it just a fat loss aid in your experience?


What are your FT4/3 levels? Total levels don't matter. Your TSH is probably on the high side due to environmental stimuli (cold climate).

Imo if your thyroid is already high is not worth it. I have been on 150mcg LT4 and it didn't affect my FT4/3 at all, that's why I use 50mcg T3 (for hypothyroism). Still I feel cold without progesterone from HCG (or Tren !).

----------


## DocToxin8

> What are your FT4/3 levels? Total levels don't matter. Your TSH is probably on the high side due to environmental stimuli (cold climate).
> 
> Imo if your thyroid is already high is not worth it. I have been on 150mcg LT4 and it didn't affect my FT4/3 at all, that's why I use 50mcg T3 (for hypothyroism). Still I feel cold without progesterone from HCG (or Tren!).


On my last blood work just a week ago it FT4 and TSH were pretty normal. 
Other times TSH have been above (just) or near the upper reference range, so have FT4. Many times FT3 were skipped, so maybe there's a conversion issue, but when it has been checked it has been within range, not
Low and not that high, I'll see if I have more blood were both were tested. 

But I thought it was very strange the first time I tried T4, since I got elevated body temp with 200mcg within hours. I thought it would take
Much longer. The only couple of times I've tried it since has been at below 200mcg or split dose, and haven't noticed that effect. 

But if it's only for fat loss I'm not that interested. 
Maybe later. 

The there's the matter of T4s long half life, I'm afraid it would cause much more prolonged "lowish" levels after quitting than T3.

----------


## hammerheart

It's not strange, it's like dropping a bomb on your metabolism, since there is still plenty of endogenous thyroxine/triiodothyronine circulating. Conversion occurs mainly in liver and is also regulated by feedback mechanism that adapt over time. After a couple of weeks, your system will be relying on that huge LT4 dose only and chances are you won't be experiencing the same feelings of heat as in the start. It's also possible that FT3 concentration to be lower than your physiological value, since thyroid T3 output is suppressed and excess T4 inhibits conversion. That's why I'd always recommend to use Liothyronine and not LT4. That way, your body has no chance around but to deal with excess T3.

----------


## Cupid

I know that this is probably an impossible question to answer....but perhaps someone can give me an educated ballpark.

Is there any approximation of increase in calories burned to T3 dosage.
Austin, what are your thoughts on this?

Lets say a person has TDEE 2500 normally without any thyroid medication.
Assuming same activity level, same everything, but with addition of T3....how much would their TDEE increase by taking a 50mcg daily dose? How about 75? How about 100?

Again I know its probably different on a case by case basis, but does anyone have an idea of what it could be?

----------


## numbere

> I know that this is probably an impossible question to answer....but perhaps someone can give me an educated ballpark.
> 
> Is there any approximation of increase in calories burned to T3 dosage.
> Austin, what are your thoughts on this?
> 
> Lets say a person has TDEE 2500 normally without any thyroid medication.
> Assuming same activity level, same everything, but with addition of T3....how much would their TDEE increase by taking a 50mcg daily dose? How about 75? How about 100?
> 
> Again I know its probably different on a case by case basis, but does anyone have an idea of what it could be?


If I had to ballpark it based on my experience with t3 a 75-100mcg/d dose would increase your bmr about 10-15 percent. 

I'm not sure if there is a linear relationship between amount of t3 taken and bmr increase, but I can tell you that the side effects from doses above 75-100mcg quickly become intolerable.

----------


## jasonc06

Hello, this is my first post here, and wanted to mentioned what is happening to me. I have been dieting for long on low calories, plus took EC stack..and my Free T3 was low, TSH was high, even though my diet was clean I had extremely high cholesterol and my testosterone low. I then took a test for Reverse T3 and noticed my Free T3 was high. 

Results:

Lipid Panel

Total Cholesterol - 334 mg/dL ---High 100-199

Triglycerides - 59 mg/dL 0-149

HDL - 84 mg/dL >39

VLDL - 12 mg/dL 5-40

LDL - 238 mg/dL 0-99

Thyroid

Free T4 1.25 ng/dL 0.82 - 1.77

TSH 5.8 uIU/mL 0.45 - 4.5

Reverse T3 20.2 ng/dL 9.2 - 24.1

Free T3 1.5 pg/mL LOW 2.0 - 4.4

SHBG 55.9 nmol/L 16.5 - 55.9

Free Testosterone (Direct) 5.3 pg/mL LOW 9.3 - 26.5

Total Testosterone 471 ng/dL 348 - 1197


So to correct this, I ordered T3.. and from 1.3 before (low).. it went to mid range.. 3.4.

MY cholesterol drop 50% in one month.. but my TSH got suppressed (which I knew was going to happen). I feel so much better now.. my only problem is I read T3 gets SHBG high..which will hurt Testosterone. 

One symptom I'm having is..I do have erections..normal..but sperm count and mobility is pretty low. I went to check my testosterone again to see if T3 made it worst or better. 

Is there anything I can do to stop SHBG from increasing? Thanks..

I have attached my recent blood test so you can have a look at it.

----------


## hammerheart

Your Free T3 was extremely low from impaired metabolism due to long-standing calorie deficit. It's a body natural protection mechanism to spare energy for normal functioning. By introducing T3 you literally told your system to go f*ck itself. With the low free T you have, you are exposing yourself to potential muscle wasting. Heck, most ppl here won't touch T3 unless on a good dose of AAS.

High SHBG is also related to poor nutritional status and dieting.

What is your diet now? 

The solution is to restore proper energy intake. Expecially insuling from carbs will help dial down SHBG.

A multi-vitamin/mineral is also recommended.

----------


## kelkel

> By introducing T3 you literally told your system to go f*ck itself.



Direct and on-point.....

----------


## jasonc06

> Your Free T3 was extremely low from impaired metabolism due to long-standing calorie deficit. It's a body natural protection mechanism to spare energy for normal functioning. By introducing T3 you literally told your system to go f*ck itself. With the low free T you have, you are exposing yourself to potential muscle wasting. Heck, most ppl here won't touch T3 unless on a good dose of AAS.
> 
> High SHBG is also related to poor nutritional status and dieting.
> 
> What is your diet now? 
> 
> The solution is to restore proper energy intake. Expecially insuling from carbs will help dial down SHBG.
> 
> A multi-vitamin/mineral is also recommended.


Thanks for the comments, yes I know T3 will make me lose muscle.. but its that also true if I'm on a normal T3 range? I thought it will make me lose muscle being higher than the range.. meaning almost Hyper. 

I really feel amazing, no need for pre workout anymore..full of energy..have erections.. etc.. the only problem is sperm count and mobility.. that's why I was looking for a solution to the SHBG ..

Also my low t3..could had been the cause of my low testosterone .. hopefully results come back higher..

Currently I'm eating a high amount of protein to compensate the T3.. I was considering getting TRT..but the infertility issues scares me..

----------


## hammerheart

Semen requires months to return to normal, the average time it requires to mature is 74 days, so you gotta be patient.

You should also consume adequate amounts of carb, that will also help with SHBG. T3 increases catabolism, at physiological levels it shouldn't be a concern as long as you meet your energy requirements (that means no more dieting). Eventually, the deiodinases performing conversion of thyroxine (T4) to triiodothyronine (T3) will resume normal functioning.

Standard approach to SHBG includes Vitamin D3. With high dosages it requires some monitoring.

What is your CBC? Iron status?

----------


## jasonc06

> Semen requires months to return to normal, the average time it requires to mature is 74 days, so you gotta be patient.
> 
> You should also consume adequate amounts of carb, that will also help with SHBG. T3 increases catabolism, at physiological levels it shouldn't be a concern as long as you meet your energy requirements (that means no more dieting). Eventually, the deiodinases performing conversion of thyroxine (T4) to triiodothyronine (T3) will resume normal functioning.
> 
> Standard approach to SHBG includes Vitamin D3. With high dosages it requires some monitoring.
> 
> What is your CBC? Iron status?


Hey thanks for following up.. before using T3, I had already very high SHBG..which I suspect must be higher now that I use T3. I will check my other hormones tomorrow and also will check CBC, and Iron Panel so I can answer you question better.

By the way, do you know if high Progesterone is bad?

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## hammerheart

> Hey thanks for following up.. before using T3, I had already very high SHBG..which I suspect must be higher now that I use T3. I will check my other hormones tomorrow and also will check CBC, and Iron Panel so I can answer you question better.
> 
> By the way, do you know if high Progesterone is bad?


If your protein intake from red meat is already high then probably you aren't low in Iron. Low Iron is another reason for low FT3.

High prog coupled with high cholesterol suggests the steroideogenesis pathway has a bottleneck somewhere, but can also be from stress/high cortisol condition (also elicited by calorie deficits).

SHBG too should normalize over time with proper energy intake, again, carbs will be useful there.

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## jasonc06

> If your protein intake from red meat is already high then probably you aren't low in Iron. Low Iron is another reason for low FT3.
> 
> High prog coupled with high cholesterol suggests the steroideogenesis pathway has a bottleneck somewhere, but can also be from stress/high cortisol condition (also elicited by calorie deficits).
> 
> SHBG too should normalize over time with proper energy intake, again, carbs will be useful there.


Thanks, my CBC from my November results, were all normal...waiting for the test I did today to check my CBC again and Iron. Will keep you updated.

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## jasonc06

Hey its been 2-3 months since my last post..

Let me explain first my background first for those that don't know..
I had VERY High Total Cholesterol and LDL last year. My Free Testosterone was low also and Total Testosterone. My T3 was low too and Reverse T3 high. 

After doing alot of research and going to many doctors, one said I was fine and only prescriped cholesterol pills. Another said I was fine again. 

But the numbers were saying something else.. 

T3,Free,Serum
1.5 LOW
Reference Range: 2.0-4.4 pg/mL

Reverse T3, Serum
20.2 NORMAL (it says normal but it was almost going to high)
Reference Range: 9.2-24.1 ng/dL


Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum
55.9 NORMAL (it says normal but was almost going to high)
Reference Range: 16.5-55.9 nmol/L

TSH
5.820 HIGH
Reference Range: 0.450-4.500 uIU/mL

Estradiol
30.6 NORMAL
Reference Range: 7.6-42.6 pg/mL


Testosterone, Serum
471 NORMAL (this is low if you ask me, I'm 28 years old)
Reference Range: 348-1197 ng/dL 

Free Testosterone(Direct)
5.3 LOW
Reference Range: 9.3-26.5 pg/mL

Cholesterol, Total
334 HIGH
Reference Range: 100-199 mg/dL

LDL Cholesterol Calc
238 HIGH
Reference Range: 0-99 mg/dL


As you can see I was going crazy! I found a doctor and only took T3 .. my testostrone increase and Free testosterone too. My cholesterol dropped like a rock and LDL too in just 1 month. My Free T3 increase. (Tsh and T4 surpressed as expected). Problem is.. on my new test he added Estrogens and Progesterone and those are high.. and SHBG is very high (I read T3 causes this)

New Results.

DHEA-Sulfate
177.5NORMAL
Reference Range: 138.5-475.2 ug/dL

T4,Free(Direct)
0.35LOW
Reference Range: 0.82-1.77 ng/dL

Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA)
426NORMAL
Reference Range: 31-701 ng/dL

TSH
0.016LOW

TSH
0.016 LOW
Reference Range: 0.450-4.500 uIU/mL


Progesterone
0.3 HIGH
Reference Range: 0.0-0.1 ng/mL

Estradiol
25.5 NORMAL
Reference Range: 7.6-42.6 pg/mL

Estrogens, Total
139 HIGH
Reference Range: 40-115 pg/mL

T3,Free,Serum
3.6 NORMAL
Reference Range: 2.0-4.4 pg/mL

LH
7.6 NORMAL
Reference Range: 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL

FSH
5.7 NORMAL
Reference Range: 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL

Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy
31.1NORMAL (started taking Vitamin D3 to increase this)
Reference Range: 30.0-100.0 ng/mL

Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum
84.4 HIGH
Reference Range: 16.5-55.9 nmol/L

Total Testosterone, Serum
716 NORMAL
Reference Range: 348-1197 ng/dL

Free Testosterone(Direct)
10.4 NORMAL
Reference Range: 9.3-26.5 pg/mL

17 OH Pregnenolone, Serum, MS
347 NORMAL

Dihydrotestosterone
53 NORMAL


Any help will be very appreciate it. Maybe I should lower the T3 to get SHBG lower? But the strange thing is Estradiol is the same as before. I read this is the bad estrogen for male? But what about Estrogens and Progesterone. Too bad my doctor didn't test Estrogens before.

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## Ger_1997

I have to take 25mcg T3 and 100 T4 because of secondary Hypothyroidism.
Still suffer from 35 Celsius / 95 Fahrenheit ...
I think this disengagement is high for me because i‘m Only 5‘3/160cm.

I take test e 125mg per week TRT and 5000 I.U D3 and iodid salt per day

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## Testlolblast

Thanks, what a great information! I didn't really know about the t4 to t3 conversation ratio  :Smilie:

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## ErectionAdvisor

Is this thread still active? How do I get proper bloodwork on T3?

Im taking 50mcg AM, and 150mcg T4 AM as well. I get my blood drawn the next morning about 24 hours later. My FT3 and FT4 is still coming back low! My TSH is crushed though. I know my stuff is legit, its pharma.

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