# STEROIDS FORUM > IGF-1 LR3, HGH, and INSULIN QUESTIONS >  17 year old - been taking hgh for a 2 months (4ui 5 on 2 off)

## Onpoint.

Sup people,
Im 22 years old myself but a friend who is 17 years old has been taking hgh (********** genuine) for a month and has a months supply left.
He has repported no negative side effects what so ever, and says he feels alot healthier and has put on weight and muscle mass while staying lean.
Reason he started the cycle was that he didnt wish to take steroids as he thought he was too young (mess up his growth) and thought hgh was the safer option to get back into shape.
He also says he starting to feel like himself again, after not looking after himself for a while.
He did not take hgh to grow taller etc.. he about 6.2 at the moment id say and he seems to have grown a bit while on the cycle, 5(days on) 2 off.

He told me that he started taking hgh 3 weeks into his cycle so i had no say in the matter.
He has a few questions and id thought id ask here as i love this forum and also seems to be the most informative.
Ok here they go:

How long does HGH supress natural HGH release?

Has taking HGH effected him anyway negativly?

Will this cycle of 3 months stunt or effect his growth?

Will his body return back to normal after he has finished his hgh?


His skin looks so much better, hes happier and seems more on ball and says he feels like hgh has repaired him and gave him his appitite back.

I have told him that he should go to a doctor and tell him about using hgh after he has finished his cycle to get checked out and make sure his levels are normal.

All replys will be much appreciated brothers

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## Onpoint.

He weighs 11.8 stone also.

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## RoadToRecovery

Gotta love the "I have this friend" threads. Why doesnt he just register and ask for himself?

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## Onpoint.

Can we please answer these questions!!

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## MaNiCC

> Gotta love the "I have this friend" threads. Why doesnt he just register and ask for himself?


you have to be 18 to register. RTR i expected better from you  :Wink/Grin:

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## Onpoint.

I have already stated i am 22.
Could people who actually want to HELP please reply.
Thank you bros

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## RoadToRecovery

I have no real world experience with HGH. Only anecdotal information. From what I have heard, @ 17, he would experience no benefits from HGH @ 4ius being that he naturally produces more than that. 

If anything, the fact that he is still going through puberty could be a plausible reason why he is still putting on weight. But then again, im no expert... but I will say that GH doesnt belong in the hands of 17 yr old to begin with imo.

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## FCVtec

If you are not taking HGH under a physician's supervision at 17 you must be crazy. At your age the use of HGH has to be monitored to make sure no abnormal growth occurs and more. Until you are completely done growing HGH can be dangerous on a different level I believe.

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## PK-V

so I have this friend that found out he had run someone over in his car, he says that it wasn't his fault so he said to me he wants to dump the body, I never meant to kill him. so anyway my friend after doing this dirty deed was wondering where he should put the body. I told him to turn himself into the cops but he won't listen. where do you think my friend should try to hide the body?

All replys will be much appreciated brothers

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## TheMilk

bury it in a grave yard

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## CMB

> so I have this friend that found out he had run someone over in his car, he says that it wasn't his fault so he said to me he wants to dump the body, I never meant to kill him. so anyway my friend after doing this dirty deed was wondering where he should put the body. I told him to turn himself into the cops but he won't listen. where do you think my friend should try to hide the body?
> 
> All replys will be much appreciated brothers


 :Haha:

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## Onpoint.

> so I have this friend that found out he had run someone over in his car, he says that it wasn't his fault so he said to me he wants to dump the body, I never meant to kill him. so anyway my friend after doing this dirty deed was wondering where he should put the body. I told him to turn himself into the cops but he won't listen. where do you think my friend should try to hide the body?
> 
> All replys will be much appreciated brothers


hahahaha

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## Onpoint.

> I have no real world experience with HGH. Only anecdotal information. From what I have heard, @ 17, he would experience no benefits from HGH @ 4ius being that he naturally produces more than that. 
> 
> But then again, im no expert... but I will say that GH doesnt belong in the hands of 17 yr old to begin with imo.


I agree too.

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## Onpoint.

> I have no real world experience with HGH. Only anecdotal information. From what I have heard, @ 17, he would experience no benefits from HGH @ 4ius being that he naturally produces more than that. 
> 
> If anything, the fact that he is still going through puberty could be a plausible reason why he is still putting on weight. But then again, im no expert... but I will say that GH doesnt belong in the hands of 17 yr old to begin with imo.





> If you are not taking HGH under a physician's supervision at 17 you must be crazy. At your age the use of HGH has to be monitored to make sure no abnormal growth occurs and more. Until you are completely done growing HGH can be dangerous on a different level I believe.


Two different answers, one saying it wont effect him as he already has high levels of hgh and another saying otherwise.

Thanks for the replys.

Any more replys will be appreciated!

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## ScotchGuard

A normal 17 yo will produce slightly less then 2iu of growth hormone per day. It's not healthy for a 17 yo to be using HGH without a Dr. supervision. It isn't about not answering his questions, it's about safety first. The body will reach HGH maturity at age 30. That means that if he starts taking synthetic HGH at 17 there a good chance that he could permanently damage his natural secretion of HGH. It seems like such a waste of a good body to look good for a short time in exchange for a lifetime of HRT. Then again, nothing might happen. Each person's body is different. If my 17 yo friend was taking HGH and knowing what I know, I would discourage his practice.

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## Onpoint.

So what are the risks then scothguard and what would you advise after his cycle is over?
Should he taper his last few doses?
So he has messed up his natural hgh for life then?
HRT? so he will need more than just hgh replacement after he has finished his cycle?

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## Onpoint.

??????????????

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## Noles12

> So what are the risks then scothguard and what would you advise after his cycle is over?
> Should he taper his last few doses?
> So he has messed up his natural hgh for life then?
> HRT? so he will need more than just hgh replacement after he has finished his cycle?


I recommend that you stop acting like you are older and stop doing everything.

You do realize how obvious it is when a guy gets on here and goes "I'm 22 but i have this 17 year old friend" right?

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## ScotchGuard

If I found out my son was taking HGH I'd just inform him of the potential side effects and ask him to stop cold turkey. Just stop the injections. The human endocrine system controls all the hormones in the body not just testosterone . You start taking HGH at such a young age it throws everything off in the body. Your body is a marvelous chemistry set. If you start adding stuff into your body's mix of chemicals it's going to react. It's just that simple. I wouldn't be as dramatic as to say he's messed up his natural HGH secretion for life. After all, he hasn't been on HGH for too long. I'm pointing out that this board is about safety first. If you ask any experienced HGH user he'll tell your friend to get off HGH and stay off until about age 30. Again, it's for your friend's own good. AAS is taken at about 25 when the endo system is more mature and HGH is taken at about 30 when the natural secretions begins tapering off.

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## RoadToRecovery

> If I found out my son was taking HGH I'd just inform him of the potential side effects and ask him to stop cold turkey. Just stop the injections. The human endocrine system controls all the hormones in the body not just testosterone. You start taking HGH at such a young age it throws everything off in the body. Your body is a marvelous chemistry set. If you start adding stuff into your body's mix of chemicals it's going to react. It's just that simple. I wouldn't be as dramatic as to say he's messed up his natural HGH secretion for life. After all, he hasn't been on HGH for too long. I'm pointing out that this board is about safety first. If you ask any experienced HGH user he'll tell your friend to get off HGH and stay off until about age 30. Again, it's for your friend's own good. AAS is taken at about 25 when the endo system is more mature and HGH is taken at about 30 when the natural secretions begins tapering off.


There are a couple things in here that I want to point out that I have to disagree with. 




> AAS is taken at about 25 when the endo system is more mature


This is a popular response, but according to many sources... the endocrine system is actually fully matured by 18 on average for a male. Thats why 18 is the average sexual peek for a male. 




> The human endocrine system controls all the hormones in the body not just testosterone.


Well this is actually semantically incorrect. The endocrine system is _comprised_ of glands that control the production of hormones. Testosterone is controlled by the testes and growth is controlled by hypothalamus. Not necessarily important, but lets say you removed the testes - you would still have a properly functioning endocrine system. 




> HGH is taken at about 30 when the natural secretions begins tapering off.


See, I am no GH expert, nor do I have anything to back up this statement, however, Im willing to believe this is false as well. I think that the natural HGH production is limited in your early twenties, when you stop growing. Like I said, if you could prove otherwise I am all for it... but it doesnt make sense.

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## ScotchGuard

The endocrine system is comprised of over 100 hormones produced by glands in the body. They begin to mature at 18 and is not fully mature until age 25. Yes, the male reproduction system matures early at 18 but other systems do not mature until age 25. The reason 25 is a popular age to start AAS is because almost all of the glands of the endocrine system are mature not just the sexual reproduction.

Your second correction is technically correct. However, it's a easier to say that the endocrine system control the test because it require less explanation. The main point that I am emphasizing is that the network of glands in the endocrine system whether they be in the testes or hypothalamus is the basis from which level of testosterone is controlled.

You draw a general conclusion on the HGH based on false assumption of endocrine system. The secretion of HGH is highest at the age of 18-20 and tapers off over time. At age 30 is when the decline of HGH secretion can't keep up with the cellular deterioration. If you're giving advice to 18you to take AAS because their endocrine system has matured you should be careful. Also, having people younger then 30 start on HGH is not healthy. In your enthusiasm to express your knowledge you're giving bad advice to young people.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/10766061/
http://www.antiaginggroup.com/
Liu H, Bravata DM, Olkin I, Nayak S, Roberts B, Garber AM, Hoffman AR (January 2007). "Systematic review: the safety and efficacy of growth hormone in the healthy elderly". Ann. Intern. Med. 146 (2): 104–15

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## Onpoint.

So has he messed up his endocrine then?
If not what damage has he done?
Thanks you all for your input.

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## RoadToRecovery

> The endocrine system is comprised of over 100 hormones produced by glands in the body. They begin to mature at 18 and is not fully mature until age 25. Yes, the male reproduction system matures early at 18 but other systems do not mature until age 25. The reason 25 is a popular age to start AAS is because almost all of the glands of the endocrine system are mature not just the sexual reproduction.
> 
> Your second correction is technically correct. However, it's a easier to say that the endocrine system control the test because it require less explanation. The main point that I am emphasizing is that the network of glands in the endocrine system whether they be in the testes or hypothalamus is the basis from which level of testosterone is controlled.
> 
> You draw a general conclusion on the HGH based on false assumption of endocrine system. The secretion of HGH is highest at the age of 18-20 and tapers off over time. At age 30 is when the decline of HGH secretion can't keep up with the cellular deterioration. If you're giving advice to 18you to take AAS because their endocrine system has matured you should be careful. Also, having people younger then 30 start on HGH is not healthy. In your enthusiasm to express your knowledge you're giving bad advice to young people.
> 
> http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/10766061/
> http://www.antiaginggroup.com/
> Liu H, Bravata DM, Olkin I, Nayak S, Roberts B, Garber AM, Hoffman AR (January 2007). "Systematic review: the safety and efficacy of growth hormone in the healthy elderly". Ann. Intern. Med. 146 (2): 10415


Ok - well this still doesnt prove anything. You posted 2 sites that provide 0 references, yet support what I said.

The first link you provided - is from MSN - Not a very credible source yet doesnt support anything you have said.

Your second source has this exact quote in it and still doesnt support your debate. 




> As we age, we gradually lose Human Growth Hormone. Starting in our 20's


 This is from your 2nd link.

The third, is a study that doesnt even pertain to this debate at all. 




> In your enthusiasm to express your knowledge you're giving bad advice to young people.


 I dont see where I gave advice to anyone about HGH. I simply questioned yours. My theory still prevails here however.
Im not saying that I am more right then you... for I have nothing to really back my theory accept very basic knowledge on human anatomy. 




> You draw a general conclusion on the HGH based on false assumption of endocrine system.


What is my false assumption about the endocrine system?




> If you're giving advice to 18you to take AAS because their endocrine system has matured you should be careful.


If the testes are fully developed - why is it in appropriate for an 18 yr old to cycle if they meet all other real world criteria?

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## ScotchGuard

> Ok - well this still doesnt prove anything. You posted 2 sites that provide 0 references, yet support what I said.
> 
> The first link you provided - is from MSN - Not a very credible source yet doesnt support anything you have said.
> 
> Your second source has this exact quote in it and still doesnt support your debate. 
> 
> This is from your 2nd link.
> 
> The third, is a study that doesnt even pertain to this debate at all. 
> ...


If the testes were the only measure of the maturation of the endo system it would be appropriate to cycle AAS. Unfortunately it isn't.

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## RoadToRecovery

> If the testes were the only measure of the maturation of the endo system it would be appropriate to cycle AAS. Unfortunately it isn't.


You are looking at the endocrine system as a whole again. Regardless, where does it state that the endocrine system is matured at 25?

Like I said, I really am open to be shown the actual facts. If its 25 than it is 25. But I am yet to see anything that says that the endocrine system isnt fully matured. 

I have read that the body isnt hormonally matured by about 30 somewhere... but there still was nothing to back this up. But that is such a subjective statement. It really could mean anything.

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## ScotchGuard

> You are looking at the endocrine system as a whole again. Regardless, where does it state that the endocrine system is matured at 25?


The endocrine system has to be viewed as a system. There are interactions between the nearly 100 hormones and the glands that secrete them. You're stating that as long as the body is mature sexually then the individual is mature enough to cycle. That totally disregards the interaction between glandular systems in the body that interface with each other. I am all about learning if I'm making a wrong assumption here show me your reading list I'd like to see where you're getting your assumptions.

[QUOTE]Like I said, I really am open to be shown the actual facts. If its 25 than it is 25. But I am yet to see anything that says that the endocrine system isnt fully matured.[QUOTE]

First, you are making the assertion that the common wisdom on this board has no scientific foundation. Second, if you are convinced that 18yo are old enough to cycle why doesn't the general knowledge of the board stand with you? I think you should make a more empirical argument other than "I've never read it". Show the board your reading list and base your argument. 




> I have read that the body isnt hormonally matured by about 30 somewhere... but there still was nothing to back this up. But that is such a subjective statement. It really could mean anything.


I don't know where you read that but if that's in the article, it isn't true. The reason 30 is a common age for HGH is because the human body begins to slow down the natural production of growth hormones at that age. Many anti-aging clinics will not administer HGH to individual that are younger than 35. Most people choose 30 because when there is a slowing of the natural GH the addition of synthetic HGH in the body can be felt more acutely. I believe that like AAS cycling, the age of 30 is a commonly accepted age to start HGH usage, it's not because of a hard number "30" published in a white paper somewhere but because of empirical data that has been accumulated by a body of users that originated from a know physical phenomenon.

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## RoadToRecovery

[QUOTE=ScotchGuard;5173604]The endocrine system has to be viewed as a system. There are interactions between the nearly 100 hormones and the glands that secrete them. You're stating that as long as the body is mature sexually then the individual is mature enough to cycle. That totally disregards the interaction between glandular systems in the body that interface with each other. I am all about learning if I'm making a wrong assumption here show me your reading list I'd like to see where you're getting your assumptions.

[QUOTE]Like I said, I really am open to be shown the actual facts. If its 25 than it is 25. But I am yet to see anything that says that the endocrine system isnt fully matured.


> First, you are making the assertion that the common wisdom on this board has no scientific foundation. Second, if you are convinced that 18yo are old enough to cycle why doesn't the general knowledge of the board stand with you? I think you should make a more empirical argument other than "I've never read it". Show the board your reading list and base your argument. 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know where you read that but if that's in the article, it isn't true. The reason 30 is a common age for HGH is because the human body begins to slow down the natural production of growth hormones at that age. Many anti-aging clinics will not administer HGH to individual that are younger than 35. Most people choose 30 because when there is a slowing of the natural GH the addition of synthetic HGH in the body can be felt more acutely. I believe that like AAS cycling, the age of 30 is a commonly accepted age to start HGH usage, it's not because of a hard number "30" published in a white paper somewhere but because of empirical data that has been accumulated by a body of users that originated from a know physical phenomenon.


Or instead of bantering and making empty assumptions - how about you just provide some sort of evidence to provide structure to your claims. 




> show me your reading list I'd like to see where you're getting your assumptions


What I said is simply *my* theory and I provided my reasons for my theory. You dont have to own a subscription to the International Journal of Endocrinology to have an understanding of the endocrine system. You ask where I get my reading from. Wikipedia will tell you the basics. Dont make this about intellect and try to insult my intelligence. 

You however are telling me that there is scientific evidence against my theory and yet provide none. If there is evidence, you should be able to find it very easily.

Just because its popular advice, doesnt mean that it is necessarily correct.
Im not trying to go against the grain, Im simply questioning popular belief.
You cant tell me "Thats simply not true" and not back up your statement. Even the most elaborate studies done cite their references.

The national institute of health and the cdc provide many articles and I have been unbiasedly searching to provide proof. 

Your last line reminds me of something one of my co-workers would tell his clients. He was a military coordinated trainer like myself with 25+ yrs under his belt. If someone would ask a question regarding their training out of curiosity he would simply reply "Because I have been doing this for 25 years". Your last sentence is articulated to sound meaningful, but boils down to simply "Just because the vets said so". Not discrediting anyone... we have many knowledgeable people on this board that have an incredible understanding of sports medicine and the likes of it... but even they had to have gotten their information from some sort of literature. 

Its not what you know, its what you can prove.

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## russiandave

Regardless of the bickering op, you are only 17 and shouldn't be taking hgh. End of story

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## NVR2BIG1

complete waste of $$$ at 17 yrs old. Especially with no test in the mix

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## Mr.Rose

One of the main reasons i support the age of 25 as a marker for your first cycle, has nothing to do with biological maturity.

Its more to do with the fact that you will *hopefully* be more mentally mature and are able to make more correct logical decisions and release that there are consequences for every action.

Hopefully by the age of 25 you will finish college and realise the importance of *STUDY* and not to inject something into your body that you have no idea about.

Like NVR2BIG1 said, at that young age it is worthless, and HGH at that age is down right dangerous, you can do some *permanent* damage to your internal organs, especially enlargement of the organs.

The ONLY time i think AAS should be used, is when a person has reached their genetic limit, and cannot, through *any* diet or training routines surpass said limit, and has *thoroughly*  studied the compounds he/she wishes to use and understands all the consequences, dosages, usages, side effects, etc etc.

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## stevey_6t9

> One of the main reasons i support the age of 25 as a marker for your first cycle, has nothing to do with biological maturity.
> 
> Its more to do with the fact that you will *hopefully* be more mentally mature and are able to make more correct logical decisions and release that there are consequences for every action.


agree completely. 

one of the most misunderstood aspects wud be maturity levels in younger users.

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## RoadToRecovery

> One of the main reasons i support the age of 25 as a marker for your first cycle, has nothing to do with biological maturity.
> 
> Its more to do with the fact that you will *hopefully* be more mentally mature and are able to make more correct logical decisions and release that there are consequences for every action.
> 
> Hopefully by the age of 25 you will finish college and realise the importance of *STUDY* and not to inject something into your body that you have no idea about.
> 
> Like NVR2BIG1 said, at that young age it is worthless, and HGH at that age is down right dangerous, you can do some *permanent* damage to your internal organs, especially enlargement of the organs.
> 
> The ONLY time i think AAS should be used, is when a person has reached their genetic limit, and cannot, through *any* diet or training routines surpass said limit, and has *thoroughly*  studied the compounds he/she wishes to use and understands all the consequences, dosages, usages, side effects, etc etc.


I back everything you say 100% except 1 thing. The rest is spot on... I totally agree with your reason why you should wait. Which is why I said "If an 18 yr old meets real world criteria" like financially, physically, and mentally has his ducks in a row. Its few and far in between... but their are 18 yr olds that are pro competition ready but they also have a slew of trainers that supervise.

The 1 thing that I do disagree with is, the genetic limit. There are many competitors that claim to be natural and are big guys. It shows that if you take the right avenues you wont reach your genetic limit, if ever. I personally think that if you are squared away and are over 18 you can start cycling. But its the maturity of the person that is the most important like you said rose - you gotta be a big boy. I dont think its necessary to have been working out for 8+ yrs before you should start taking steroids , in fact... I dont think there is anyone on this board that has been lifting since 18 that didnt take some sort of steroid for performance enhancing purpose. Not any one that knew about them anyway.

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## 956Vette

Excellent posts ScotchGuard

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## RoadToRecovery

> Excellent posts ScotchGuard


Nothing like going with the flow and not knowing why huh  :LOL:

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## 956Vette

> Nothing like going with the flow and not knowing why huh


Appreciate the rhetoric RTR  :Smilie:  You ask legit questions. Scotch gave you some valuable insight which I enjoyed. Thank you both

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## layeazy

isnt it really dangerous like not just organs growing but doesnt hands and feet grow out of control even on the low dosage. More importantly wheres the kid getting the money and why hgh its really quite hard to imagine for myself why?

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## GREENMACHINE

Umm he started HGH 3 weeks into his cycle because he doesn't want to run AAS. What else is he running? slin?

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## RoadToRecovery

> Appreciate the rhetoric RTR  You ask legit questions. Scotch gave you some valuable insight which I enjoyed. Thank you both


I just like to be able to have foundation to stand firmly on a point... no pun intended. While scotch has provided popular insight... it is merely theory. Im still not sold. But I do enjoy having a debate with someone that actually has the ability to rebut with out hurling insults because there is an individual asking why.

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## CMB

> isnt it really dangerous like not just organs growing but doesnt hands and feet grow out of control even on the low dosage. More importantly wheres the kid getting the money and why hgh its really quite hard to imagine for myself why?


Yeah that shits expensive I can't afford it LOL. 

Kids are stupid if they would just learn to diet then maybe...

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## ScotchGuard

I think there is difference in ideas as to the age of the first AAS cycle. I've read a lot more since my last post. RoadToRecovery is right. I haven't been able to find a definitive paper that sets the first cycle age at 25. However, I did find several papers about adolescent growth extending into the early 20's. While most males stop their growing and thus fusing their platelets by 20, there are numerous cases where growth extend into their early 20's. Which means the pituitary hormones are continuing cause the body to grow. 

So, my reasoning for 25 as an age for the first cycles goes thus:

1. Not everyone stops growing at 18. Their pituitary hormones may be secreted through the early 20's.
2. There is no definitive age when all of the glands and hormones are "mature" for all males. It is generally assumed that the endo system is mature at sexual maturity but I know a woman at work who had her first child at 14 and her partner was 15. There is a general link between sexual maturity and endo maturity. There is not a direct, 1 to 1, link between sexual maturity and endo maturity.
3. Therefore, I conclude that endo maturity can occur sometime in the early 20's for a healthy adult male. I ask myself, "Will ALL healthy adult male's endo system mature during early 20's?" My answer to myself is, "I don't know but why take a chance?" Based on these assumptions and the fact that it may take several years for an adult male to strengthen their connective tissues with regular exercise, along with the emotional maturity and knowledge needed to control the powerful hormones which makes up the AAS cycle, I conclude that 25 is a much safer age to cycle AAS.
4. Even if cycling age was based solely on endo maturity I am still not convinced that all healthy male's endo matures at 18. Remember that sexual maturity is only one aspect of the endo system that affects male maturity. There are 9 glands and over 100 hormones in the endo system. We don't even know how some of them affect our bodies. 
5. I would very much like to read any study which would definitively state that all male endo system matures at 18. I'm not closed minded I am open to scientific evidence that points to that conclusion. However, in the absence of science I think it is the responsible thing to do to counsel younger members to think safety first. AAS is an extremely powerful drug that absolutely works. Safety should be paramount.

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## fossilfuel7

I can no longer sit idle and not contribute a post to this thread lol.

I'll say this much,...I had a beard when I was 13 and was done growing by 16-17. 

17 was my peak in terms of recovery and hormone levels and probably upper body strength thus far...Bench 360 raw @195 6ft...Shoulder press 225 for 5 reps.

I am 28 now and probably feel worse then a lot of 38 yr olds in terms of aging and injury issues.

I started using GH about 5 weeks ago and just hope it is legit stuff..still hard to say.

Also contemplating starting my first AAS(Anavar ) as well.

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## spywizard

And i didn't get through puberty until i was 20 at the earliest.. at 18 i was 125 lbs 5'9"... 1.5 yrs later i was 175.. same bf... natural..

point being we all develop just a little differently.. I'm glad i didn't get into this game til i was much older..

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## RoadToRecovery

> I think there is difference in ideas as to the age of the first AAS cycle. I've read a lot more since my last post. RoadToRecovery is right. I haven't been able to find a definitive paper that sets the first cycle age at 25. However, I did find several papers about adolescent growth extending into the early 20's. While most males stop their growing and thus fusing their platelets by 20, there are numerous cases where growth extend into their early 20's. Which means the pituitary hormones are continuing cause the body to grow. 
> 
> So, my reasoning for 25 as an age for the first cycles goes thus:
> 
> 1. Not everyone stops growing at 18. Their pituitary hormones may be secreted through the early 20's.
> 2. There is no definitive age when all of the glands and hormones are "mature" for all males. It is generally assumed that the endo system is mature at sexual maturity but I know a woman at work who had her first child at 14 and her partner was 15. There is a general link between sexual maturity and endo maturity. There is not a direct, 1 to 1, link between sexual maturity and endo maturity.
> 3. Therefore, I conclude that endo maturity can occur sometime in the early 20's for a healthy adult male. I ask myself, "Will ALL healthy adult male's endo system mature during early 20's?" My answer to myself is, "I don't know but why take a chance?" Based on these assumptions and the fact that it may take several years for an adult male to strengthen their connective tissues with regular exercise, along with the emotional maturity and knowledge needed to control the powerful hormones which makes up the AAS cycle, I conclude that 25 is a much safer age to cycle AAS.
> 4. Even if cycling age was based solely on endo maturity I am still not convinced that all healthy male's endo matures at 18. Remember that sexual maturity is only one aspect of the endo system that affects male maturity. There are 9 glands and over 100 hormones in the endo system. We don't even know how some of them affect our bodies. 
> 5. I would very much like to read any study which would definitively state that all male endo system matures at 18. I'm not closed minded I am open to scientific evidence that points to that conclusion. However, in the absence of science I think it is the responsible thing to do to counsel younger members to think safety first. AAS is an extremely powerful drug that absolutely works. Safety should be paramount.



Good post. Ill have a rebuttal later... but I just wanted to give you some acknowledgment as to pretty much the entire post was well put and agreeable.

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