# STEROIDS FORUM > PCT (POST CYCLE THERAPY) >  HCG with Nolvadex necessary?

## DrJ

I am going to do HCG shots of 500 iu a day for 2 weeks before my PCT and I am wondering is Nolvadex necessary with this?

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## Merc..

Yea, nolva blocks the suppressive nature of HCG ...


Merc.

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## Merc..

There are quite a few studies on this , but here one ...

When used in conjunction with nolva HCG 's suppressive nature is blocked... Check this study out ...

Tamoxifen suppresses gonadotropin-induced 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone accumulation in normal men.Smals AG, Pieters GF, Drayer JI, Boers GH, Benraad TJ, Kloppenborg PW.
Intramuscular administration of 1500 IU hCG daily for 3 days induced a transient accumulation of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP) relative to testosterone (T) in normal men, reaching its maximum 24 h after the first injection (17 OHP to T ratio, 1.7 +/- 0.3 times baseline; P < 0.01). Simultaneous administration of hCG and the estrogen antagonist tamoxifen (20 mg twice daily) almost completely abolished the hCG-induced steroidogenic block localized between 17 OHP and T (17 OHP to T ratio at 24 h, 1.1 +/- 0.1 times baseline; P < 0.01 vs. hCG alone). These data indirectly suggest that, in man, the hCG-induced steroidogenic lesion might be mediated through its estrogen-stimulating effect.

PMID: 7419679 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Merc.

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## Njord

But he is taking it before the start of pct. Would you still run the nolva?

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## ecivon

Not if you are using the hcg post cycle/pre pct. I'd use the nolva during pct, along with aromasin . Some will run nolva from beginning of cycle to end of pct with no break.

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## celticd

hcg causes a rise in estrogen thus taking nolva with hcg is a must
hcg/nolva are a super pct along with clomid or aromasin 
its my 1st time using hcg and my nuts are in great shape 2wks into pct
they were 2peas in a pod a few wks back
ill be using hcg during cycle nxt time around

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## DrJ

> But he is taking it before the start of pct. Would you still run the nolva?


so can you give me a reason why Anthony Roberts recommends Nolvadex with HCG in his PCT? and what do your opinion of his PCT too?

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## Njord

> so can you give me a reason why Anthony Roberts recommends Nolvadex with HCG in his PCT? and what do your opinion of his PCT too?


Just read AR's article and you'll see why he recommends nolva with hcg in his pct.
I have ran his pct as designed and it took me forever to recover. This is just a personal experience, but I have read other post by people who claim the same. There are also plenty of people that run the pct as designed and love it. That's just the thing with pct, you have to find what works for you.
I am currently running hcg during cycle and will up to the start of pct. Pct will be Nolva, Aromasin and clomid. Will let you know how this work out for me.

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## Njord

As for your original question, I'm kinda curious the hear more opinions as well.

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## DrJ

> Just read AR's article and you'll see why he recommends nolva with hcg in his pct.
> I have ran his pct as designed and it took me forever to recover. This is just a personal experience, but I have read other post by people who claim the same. There are also plenty of people that run the pct as designed and love it. That's just the thing with pct, you have to find what works for you.
> I am currently running hcg during cycle and will up to the start of pct. Pct will be Nolva, Aromasin and clomid. Will let you know how this work out for me.


well thanks man for your response I am just a little nervous cause I have to start my PCT next week. this week is the last week of my cycle. I just am getting confused on what to do. I have been doing so much research of the last two weeks and have heard so many conflicting stories and theories on how to do a PCT. what do you think I should do? I mean I know you said everyone is different or responds different right? I can get any of these things and some I already have. I need to do so quick cause time is running out for me. I can get Nolvadex , Clomid, Aromasin , HCG, Proviron , etc. I just am a little confused on which way to run it and/or the doses. I mean should I try anthony roberts? should I just try HCG 500 iu ED X 3 wks alone or with nolva and aromasin, then Nolva, clomid, and aromasin? or should I try HCG 5,000 IU WK1 + nolva, 5,000 IU Wk2 + nolva, 2500 iu Wk3 + Nolva, and then Nolva and clomid? shit man my head's spinning just thinking about it!!!! :Icon Rolleyes:

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## ecivon

> well thanks man for your response I am just a little nervous cause I have to start my PCT next week. this week is the last week of my cycle. I just am getting confused on what to do. I have been doing so much research of the last two weeks and have heard so many conflicting stories and theories on how to do a PCT. what do you think I should do? I mean I know you said everyone is different or responds different right? I can get any of these things and some I already have. I need to do so quick cause time is running out for me. I can get Nolvadex , Clomid, Aromasin , HCG , Proviron , etc. I just am a little confused on which way to run it and/or the doses. I mean should I try anthony roberts? should I just try HCG 500 iu ED X 3 wks alone or with nolva and aromasin, then Nolva, clomid, and aromasin? or should I try HCG 5,000 IU WK1 + nolva, 5,000 IU Wk2 + nolva, 2500 iu Wk3 + Nolva, and then Nolva and clomid? shit man my head's spinning just thinking about it!!!!


Don't make more out of this then necessary, or get yourself rattled. You can go the traditional nolva clomid pct and be fine. Or you can go with a different pct and be just as fine. 

You won't know what works best until you actually try one and see how your body responds/recovers.

Believe it or not -- stupid and foolish -- I know someone who won't always do a pct and he has no problems. For me, I won't take the chance. Also for me the traditional nolva/clomid didn't work well off a test/deca cycle.

What I did was use 20mg nolva ed from start of cycle through end of pct. Beginning last 20 days before start of pct, did 500iu/ed hcg. Pct was 20 mg/ed nolva, 25 mg/ed aromasin and 50 mg/ed proviron. This pct worked very well for me and recovery was extremely quick. AR can take credit for this pct, but a bro from the UK actually described it and talked me into it before AR started talking about it.

Bottom line, the choice is yours and pick one and go with it and see how you respond. If you are satisfied with the results of your choice then there you go. If not, next time try a different protocol.

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## DrJ

> Don't make more out of this then necessary, or get yourself rattled. You can go the traditional nolva clomid pct and be fine. Or you can go with a different pct and be just as fine. 
> 
> You won't know what works best until you actually try one and see how your body responds/recovers.
> 
> Believe it or not -- stupid and foolish -- I know someone who won't always do a pct and he has no problems. For me, I won't take the chance. Also for me the traditional nolva/clomid didn't work well off a test/deca cycle.
> 
> What I did was use 20mg nolva ed from start of cycle through end of pct. Beginning last 20 days before start of pct, did 500iu/ed hcg . Pct was 20 mg/ed nolva, 25 mg/ed aromasin and 50 mg/ed proviron . This pct worked very well for me and recovery was extremely quick. AR can take credit for this pct, but a bro from the UK actually described it and talked me into it before AR started talking about it.
> 
> Bottom line, the choice is yours and pick one and go with it and see how you respond. If you are satisfied with the results of your choice then there you go. If not, next time try a different protocol.


Thanks for your response and everyone elses too

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## DrJ

> Just read AR's article and you'll see why he recommends nolva with hcg in his pct.
> I have ran his pct as designed and it took me forever to recover. This is just a personal experience, but I have read other post by people who claim the same. There are also plenty of people that run the pct as designed and love it. That's just the thing with pct, you have to find what works for you.
> I am currently running hcg during cycle and will up to the start of pct. Pct will be Nolva, Aromasin and clomid. Will let you know how this work out for me.


Hey I can't find Aromasin in my area and i am wondering if I could use Proviron instead? for PCT i was going to use Clomid, Nolvadex and Proviron. Today I started my first shot of HCG and I haven't used Nolvadex with it because you said not to. So as for Aromasin can I use Proviron as a substitute?

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