# MEMBERS EXPERIENCES > OVER 40 FORUM >  Feedback on Sustanon 250 cycle

## ScotchGuard

Personal Stats:
Age - 50
Height - 5'11"
Weight - 180lbs
BF - 18% (hydrostatic method)
Years Lifting - 30 (for fitness not bodybuilding)

Current Cycle:
HGH - 4iu ED for the past 3 months

Previous AAS Cycle:
NONE, this is my first cycle

Diet:
Pretty clean but could be cleaner.

Intended Cycle:
Week 1 - Sustanon 250 (500mg), Dbol (20mg ED), HCG (500iu) HGH (4iu ED)
Week 2 - Sustanon 250 (500mg), Dbol (20mg ED), HCG (500iu) HGH (4iu ED)
Week 3 - Sustanon 250 (500mg), Dbol (20mg ED), HCG (500iu) HGH (4iu ED)
Week 4 - Sustanon 250 (500mg), Dbol (20mg ED), HCG (500iu) HGH (4iu ED)
Week 5 - Sustanon 250 (500mg), HCG (500iu) HGH (4iu ED)
Week 6 - Sustanon 250 (500mg), HCG (500iu) HGH (4iu ED)
Week 7 - Sustanon 250 (500mg), HCG (250iu ED) HGH (4iu ED)
Week 8 - Sustanon 250 (500mg), HCG (250iu ED) HGH (4iu ED)
Week 9 - Nothing HGH (4iu ED)
Week 10 - Nothing HGH (4iu ED)
Week 11 - Nothing HGH (4iu ED)

PCT
Week 12 - Clomid (100mg ED), Nolvadex (60mg ED) HGH (4iu ED)
Week 13 - Clomid (100mg ED), Nolvadex (60mg ED) HGH (4iu ED)
Week 14 - Clomid (50mg ED), Nolvadex (40mg ED) HGH (4iu ED)
Week 15 - Clomid (50mg ED), Nolvadex (40mg ED) HGH (4iu ED)

I am currently healthy with no physical problems. I am interested in gaining 10 to 15 pounds of lean muscle during this cycle. My main question is the use of HGH during the cycle. I haven't been able to find a definitive answer in my research if the use of HGH is a go or no go. I will log my results once I start my cycle.

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## kaju

> Personal Stats:
> Age - 50
> Height - 5'11"
> Weight - 180lbs
> BF - 18% (hydrostatic method)
> Years Lifting - 30 (for fitness not bodybuilding)
> 
> Current Cycle:
> HGH - 4iu ED for the past 3 months
> ...


There is not a problem with running hgh with sustanon. pm me and I can direct you to more info on this subject.

number one: In my personal opinion I prefer a single estered test for many reasons and too many to go into here, but for starters You can get the same results for hapl the price. If you are wanting lean muscle go on a diet. Sustanon will not burn fat - (if that is the reason you chose sustanon. if not I digress and apologize) 
number two: You should never run a cycle until you have your body fat down to 12% or less. you will get to many side effects such as conversion, acne, bitch tits and on and on.

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## Big

> pm me and I can direct you to more info on this subject.


he can't pm.
why is it you can't share this info on the board?

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## T-MOS

^^why would he need to PM you for more info??? this is an open board so that ALL can learn from these questions, so if you have more info, Please share it here and others may learn as well

Who said you can't run a cycle unless you are 12% bf or under?? this is NOT true

we "suggest" under 15% to be safe and to help reduce risk of estrogen related sides and other health risks , but saying you should NEVER run a cycle unless under is a little OFF.

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## Dont wanna be old

I am curious why you don't run HGH 5 on 2 off ?
HGH takes several months to see results . You noticed any changes about now ?

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## ScotchGuard

I go 4iu ED mainly because I bought a lot of HGH. I also ran IGF-lr3 for a few weeks. I got good results I went from benching 175lbs x 10reps x 10 sets to 205lbs x 10reps x 10sets. I do a lot of cardio/plyometric type of exercises and I find that my wind is really good and I can stay stronger for a longer period of time before I reach failure. I can out work most guys in the gym.

I woke up one day and the joints in my hands felt stiff. I mean, I couldn't bend my fingers. My hands were puffy and I sorta panicked. This was about 70 days into the cycle. I was at 5iu ED. I stopped taking HGH for two weeks to see if the stiffness in my hands would go away. It subsided but did not go away after two weeks. On the third week I started HGH again at 2iu ED for 10 days. Then to 3iu ED for 10 days. Now I am up to 4iu ED and I will just stay here. My hands are a little stiff but I can bend my fingers. The drawback is that my strength has dropped but my cardio's still really good.

I have 18% body fat in the hydrostatic tank but 10% using the bioelectric impedance method. When people look at me they think I'm about 10% body fat because I have the makings of a six pack. I'll eat more strictly and get down to <15% BF before I start my cycle. I eat pretty well. My normal diet's below.

8 am - 8 egg whites
10am - Protein Shake (EAS protein two scoops, some fiber, Creatin) with an ounce of almonds
Noon - A can of tuna fish with 1 Tsp of mayonnaise
Workout
1:30 pm - after workout protein drink (EAS protein two scoops, L-Glutamin, some fiber) with an ounce of almonds
4:00 pm - 8oz chicken breast with a cup of broccoli or 6oz fish (talapia or halibut or mahi mahi) fillet with a cup of broccoli
6pm - 7pm - Dinner (try to eat lean but eat what the family's eating)

I'm not looking for Sustanon to cut BF. I understand that reduction in BF is a result of strict diet and cardio. I'm interested in gaining lean body mass. My plan is to complete the 8 week Sustanon cycle, PCT, and go on to a cutting cycle.

I appreciate the feedbacks.

I have another question for IGF-lr3 experts. I read that Sustanon 250 can be mixed with IGF-lr3 and injected to specific body parts that were worked. I thought IGF-lr3 was reconstituted with AA not oil based AAS. I have a lot of IGF-lr3 that I want to use. I would like to mix it with Sustanon if it is possible. Any thoughts?

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## kaju

> he can't pm.
> why is it you can't share this info on the board?


I was going to direct him to another buliten board. I have not taken the time to see if that was against the rules.

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## ScotchGuard

This is my first week I got my first shot of Sustanon in my thigh. DANG! It hurt like crazy! It's been three days and my leg still feels like it's been kicked by my wife.  :Smilie:  I also pinned 250mg of HCG with 4iu of HGH ED and 40mg of D-bol ED. Also, twice a week I'm pinning 40mcg of IGF-lr3 directly into the muscles worked.

When I'm on IGF-lr3 I just feel so much stronger and I have so much more endurance. My muscles get such a great pump. It's only been three days since my first shot of Sustanon so I'm attributing my gains to the HGH and IGF-lr3. Over a three month period I went from flat benching 175lbs x 10reps x 10 sets to 205lbs x 10reps x 10 sets. I can't wait for the Sustanon and D-bol to kick in.

I've posted three pictures of me take a day before my first Sustanon 250 dose. In these pictures I'm 180lbs with 18% body fat. I don't feel like 18% bf but numbers don't lie.

I'm afraid to death of my second injection in the other thigh. I'm using a 3ml needle with a 25 guage needle. Any recommendations on how to reduce the after shot pain would be greatly appreciated.

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## Big

> I was going to direct him to another buliten board. I have not taken the time to see if that was against the rules.


so you're trying to send our members to another board when they are here for help?
 :Madd:

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## kaju

:Don't know: 
 :0bye: 
 :0hammer: 
 :Shrug:

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## ScotchGuard

I pinned my second 250ml of Sustanon . Today was my shoulder day. Toward the end of my workout, when I would normally be winded, I felt like I could go on forever. The feeling was actually a little alarming. I normally workout pretty hard but toward the end of the workout I get pretty burned out. My training partner said, jokingly, you on something? hahaha I feel strong.

My left quad where I pinned the Sustanon is a little tender. I hope it doesn't hurt like my first shot.

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## kaju

I know this is your first cycle but how much experiance do you have pinning.
I dont know how much pain your having or how much pain tolerance you have but sometimes that is the nature of the beast.
Just be glad you are not pinning tren . 
Some people will warm there juice others will bake it some will do both. They claim it reduses the pain.
Me? I just pin and deal with the pain and I dont sweat it or let it slow me down.

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## ScotchGuard

I have a lot of experience with 29G insulin syringes pinning HGH and IGF-lr3. I shoot SQ in my belly. No pain. Sometimes I don't even feel a single thing. Man, this Sustanon is like milk shake compared to HGH. K, I appreciate your feedback. Time to suck it up and shut up.

I weighed myself today. I gained 6 pounds in 5 days! I think some of it is water weight but still, that's 6 pounds in 5 days. I felt a little flat today. I don't know if this is a normal part of cycling Sustanon. I felt strong doing my squats today. My training partner took two steps down the stairs and his legs just gave out. If it wasn't for the banister he would have had a lousy afternoon.  :Smilie: 

I injured my shoulder two months ago punching a heavy bag. It's been hampering my training for all this time. The last week on Sustanon I can tell a noticeable difference in my shoulder. I don't know if it's the AAS but in the last week my shoulder feels a WHOLE lot better.

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## kaju

> I have a lot of experience with 29G insulin syringes pinning HGH and IGF-lr3. I shoot SQ in my belly. No pain. Sometimes I don't even feel a single thing. Man, this Sustanon is like milk shake compared to HGH. K, I appreciate your feedback. Time to suck it up and shut up.
> 
> I weighed myself today. I gained 6 pounds in 5 days! I think some of it is water weight but still, that's 6 pounds in 5 days. I felt a little flat today. I don't know if this is a normal part of cycling Sustanon. I felt strong doing my squats today. My training partner took two steps down the stairs and his legs just gave out. If it wasn't for the banister he would have had a lousy afternoon. 
> 
> I injured my shoulder two months ago punching a heavy bag. It's been hampering my training for all this time. The last week on Sustanon I can tell a noticeable difference in my shoulder. I don't know if it's the AAS but in the last week my shoulder feels a WHOLE lot better.


Yes its the AAS that is making your shoulder feel beter.
No it is not the sustonon cycle that is making your muscles feel flat. That is caused by your diet. When your glycoen levels are low your muscles will feel flat. When your glycogen levels are high you will get these great pumps during your work-out. that is the secret of the nitric oxcide that these companies sell. Or take a viagra before you work out and you will get these amazing pumps. but dont waist a good thing on that unless you will be having sex after your work-out :2biggrininvasion:

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## ScotchGuard

I feel GREAT! I have a bum knee but it's been feeling really great. My shoulder feels TONS better and I feel a constant pump in my arms. Today was my rest day and I ate really clean (chicken, fish, broccoli, egg whites, almonds, protein shakes). I'm also taking a multivitamin and fish oil. Anyone recommend a good workout supplement that has nitric oxide? I haven't tried NO before but my training partner tells me he gets an awesome pump.

How about running Clen for 4 weeks during this cycle? The goal is to get 10 pound of lean muscle and strip away the water weight. I am eating really clean now with the objective of minimizing water weight. 

I know that doing cycle after cycle is not good for the body. But it seems like running a cutting phase during the bulking phase is also counter productive. 

I'd appreciate your thoughts.

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## kaju

clen Is an interesting drug. It was developed for people with breathing problems. It found its way into the body building world because of its ability to burn fat. It is best to be run two weeks on and two weeks off. I do not think it will do you any good to throw off water weight. It will have reached its height of stimulating the receptors in two weeks. You stop taking it for two weeks to let your receptors recoup. but it will keep burning fat during that time. Then take it another two weeks etc etc etc.
there is allot more to go into on this but I cant write it all. but do a little research on this drug. I love it but I hate the way it makes me feel.

as for a bulking and cutting phase. This term comes from the pros that body build for a living, and there bodies pay a price for it.
If you will give yourself patience you can do both at the same time. without AAS. but the beauty of AAS you can do in weeks what would normally take years. Back to what I was saying about the pros when you are as big as them you can afford to cut because they have so much muscle mass. at the same time when they walk on stage that is when most of the pics you are taken. they will take strong diuretics to shed themselves of all water retention. it is dangerous and people have died from it. but when you see a pic of them while on stage they only look like that one day out of the year.

if you want to get rid of water weight - I recommend SWEAT. do some more aerobics, if not take a diuretic

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## ScotchGuard

Thanks kaju, I'll take your advice. I like circuit training so I'll throw more plyometric exercised in with my lifting. So far, I've gained 7 pounds. I'm not cut but I'm now doughy either from the water.

I pinned my 3rd dose of Sustanon this morning. I heated the syringe with a hair blow dryer before and rode the stationary bike for 20 minutes right after. I don't feel a thing in my leg now.

I normally do 80lbs x 10reps x 6 sets on the tricep pull down. Today I was able to do 100lbs x 10 reps x 4 sets before I had to step down in weight. I can tell that my strength is increasing. My injured shoulder is feeling better and better. I was able to bench today for the first time in 2 months. It wasn't pretty but I did get 135# up. I would normally be benching 205lbs x 10reps x 10 sets with the HGH and IGF-lr3 in my system. At this rate my shoulder should be good in another week. I'll record my bench progress and I move from recuperation to strength training.

I have another question. My upper body is much better developed then my legs. I tore my ACL as a teenager so I never got in the habit of working legs. I would like to take advantage of this cycle and build my legs. I'm working legs twice a week. Squats and Glutes on Monday and Hams/Calves on Friday. I pin 40mcg IGF-lr3 twice a week on Mondays and Fridays into my legs. Is this a reasonable way to increase lower body growth? Is there a better way to approach lower body growth?

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## kaju

> Thanks kaju, I'll take your advice. I like circuit training so I'll throw more plyometric exercised in with my lifting. So far, I've gained 7 pounds. I'm not cut but I'm now doughy either from the water.
> 
> I pinned my 3rd dose of Sustanon this morning. I heated the syringe with a hair blow dryer before and rode the stationary bike for 20 minutes right after. I don't feel a thing in my leg now.
> 
> I normally do 80lbs x 10reps x 6 sets on the tricep pull down. Today I was able to do 100lbs x 10 reps x 4 sets before I had to step down in weight. I can tell that my strength is increasing. My injured shoulder is feeling better and better. I was able to bench today for the first time in 2 months. It wasn't pretty but I did get 135# up. I would normally be benching 205lbs x 10reps x 10 sets with the HGH and IGF-lr3 in my system. At this rate my shoulder should be good in another week. I'll record my bench progress and I move from recuperation to strength training.
> 
> I have another question. My upper body is much better developed then my legs. I tore my ACL as a teenager so I never got in the habit of working legs. I would like to take advantage of this cycle and build my legs. I'm working legs twice a week. Squats and Glutes on Monday and Hams/Calves on Friday. I pin 40mcg IGF-lr3 twice a week on Mondays and Fridays into my legs. Is this a reasonable way to increase lower body growth? Is there a better way to approach lower body growth?


I forgot to mention about water retention to avoid sodium like the plague.
On legg building that sounds good. as long as your knees hold up squat and squat and squat. There is no better exercise for building leggs than squats. this is what seperates the men from the boys. Just be careful at our age. when on the juice you will want to push yourself more than our bodies can hold up.
Pay close attention to what your body is telling you. If you feel one of those twinges that you know isnt right put down that weight fast and regroup. see if it was just some spasm or if you hurt something. if everything is ok start over.
you may want to throw in some lunges. it is not a muscle building exercise as much as it is a muscle strengthening exercise. as your strength encreases you will be able to do heavier squats in turn will make bigger leggs. :7up:

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## lovbyts

> ^^why would he need to PM you for more info??? this is an open board so that ALL can learn from these questions, so if you have more info, Please share it here and others may learn as well
> 
> Who said you can't run a cycle unless you are 12% bf or under?? this is NOT true
> 
> we "suggest" under 15% to be safe and to help reduce risk of estrogen related sides and other health risks , but saying you should NEVER run a cycle unless under is a little OFF.


Hmmm you think maybe someone is trying to dig up some business??? :Chairshot:

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## ScotchGuard

Today was my squat day. I really like squats and I would like to get better at squats. I can't tell any significant improvement on my squats after 9 days into the cycle. I welcome any feedback out there.

I would like to concentrate on my leg development in this cycle. My knees are not that great so I haven't been loading up on my squats. Instead, I squat lighter weights more reps. Today's squat routine looked like this:

Squats:
Warm Up: 135lbs x 10reps x 4 sets
Workout: 225lbs x 10reps x 6 sets

Leg Press:
4 plates each side x 10 reps x 4sets

Lunges
135lbs x 10reps x 4 sets

Leg Extensions
100lbs x 10reps x 4 sets

My legs are really great shape but it's not very big. I am open to any recommendations on leg workout routines. I just can't put a lot of weights on my knees. That's the only constraint.

In my research I read that Dbol is supposed to jump start the long ester like Test E. But since I am taking Sustanon which has Test P which a short ester do I need to be on Dbol for 4 weeks? If not, I'll stop taking them after 2 weeks. I appreciate the feedback and I have been trying to implement them in my cycle.

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## kaju

> Today was my squat day. I really like squats and I would like to get better at squats. I can't tell any significant improvement on my squats after 9 days into the cycle. I welcome any feedback out there.
> 
> I would like to concentrate on my leg development in this cycle. My knees are not that great so I haven't been loading up on my squats. Instead, I squat lighter weights more reps. Today's squat routine looked like this:
> 
> Squats:
> Warm Up: 135lbs x 10reps x 4 sets
> Workout: 225lbs x 10reps x 6 sets
> 
> Leg Press:
> ...


Thats pretty damn good on the leg workout. 
It looks good. 
even with out knee problems that would be a good legg work out. Stick to doing what you can at 10 reps. if you can push yourself to do more than 10 reps with out hurting yourself go for it. If you can do more than 16 go up on weight. Its the leg extention that gets my knees. 

on the dbol since you are on it go ahead and finish out the 4 weeks. Dbol will give you a little bloat as you mentioned before. But it will increase your strength quite a bit.

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## ScotchGuard

I worked back today but my arms were so pumped I could hardly move them. Since my goal is to gain 10lbs of lean muscle mass over the next 12 weeks I decided to work medium weights and more reps. My back workout consists mainly of pull ups.

BACK WORKOUT
Warmup:
Pull Downs 100lbs x 10reps x 4 sets

Workout
Wide Grip Pull Ups x 10reps x 5 sets
Regular Grip Pull Ups x 10reps x 5 sets

BICEPS WORKOUT
Warmup:
Dumbell Curls 20lbs x 10reps x 4sets

Workout
Barbell curls 75lbs x 10reps x 4 sets
Dumbell curls 35lbs x 10reps x 4 sets

Is there are workout routine where I can gain more strength without getting too large? It seems like an oxymoron, strength without the size, but I would like to stay at about 185lbs to 190lbs but be able to bench press 350lbs. When I was 17yo I weighted 128lbs but was able to bench press 265lbs one rep max. Those hay days are over for me. My joints can't take that kind of pressure. Even if I could bench 300lbs, which I can't, my joints would probably give out before my muscles.

I'm still taking creatine as well as L-Glutamin. Should I continue these supplements during my cycle? I've read that creatine made some bodybuilders feel "bloated" but I don't feel bloated at all. I just feel pumped. I appreciate the feedback.

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## kaju

> I worked back today but my arms were so pumped I could hardly move them. Since my goal is to gain 10lbs of lean muscle mass over the next 12 weeks I decided to work medium weights and more reps. My back workout consists mainly of pull ups.
> 
> BACK WORKOUT
> Warmup:
> Pull Downs 100lbs x 10reps x 4 sets
> 
> Workout
> Wide Grip Pull Ups x 10reps x 5 sets
> Regular Grip Pull Ups x 10reps x 5 sets
> ...


I believe you can reach your goal through diet. You will have to get further information on this through someone else, but you have to balance a certain ratio. I do not know the correct numbers on this. I read an article on this about ten years ago in mens health magazine and I then bougth the book. I cannot even recall the title but it was something like the "T" advantage. but you ballance protein carbs and fat in a certain ratio and you can make your body do what you want by uping the percentage of of one and lessening another. through this you can bulk up or lean out or stay where you are. Sorry I cannot remember but If you do the research you can achieve your goal.

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## ScotchGuard

This is the end of two weeks of a 12 week cycle. I've pinned Sustanon 250 four times @ 250mg/each time. I've gained 10lbs. DANG! I though I was going to gain about 1lb a week over a 12 week period. K, so now what do I do? My goal was to gain 10lbs of lean muscle mass. I can tell I've got a lot of water in me because my muscles look pretty round. I went to a water park a couple of days ago and when I walked around with my 21yo son a lot of people though we were brothers. Not bad for an old fart, hahaha. 

I've been on HGH for about four months now and I can tell my skin is more saturated. What I mean is that the small lines around my eyes are spreading thinner because there seems to be more moisture there. I don't have saggy skin on my belly and I generally feel great. Over the past two weeks on Sustanon my bum shoulder has been feeling progressive better. My back pains have decreased and the pain in my hip joint has been reduced. My overall sense of well being has increased for the better. I've been researching this site for almost 9 months before I decided to start HGH and Sustanon cycle. There are a LOT of experienced people on this board. I sure appreciate them sharing their wisdom and experience for newbies like me.

Now I have a question on side effects. I've been on 500mg/wk of Sustanon 250, 5iu/day of HGH, 50mcg IGF-lr3 3xWK, D-Bol 40mg/ED, HCG 250mg 2xWK for the past two weeks. When does the acne, hair loss, the disappearing nuts start to happen? I've not noticed any hair loss (I check the drain of my shower very carefully after a shower), no acne on my body anywhere (my kids think I'm REALLY vain looking at myself everyday after a shower), and no noticeable shrinkage of my gonads. I'd like to be emotionally prepared for the eventual sides but I don't really know when those sides should start. I'd appreciate some feedback.

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## kaju

The hair loss mostly is peron specifc. some do some dont. Your nuts will shrink at about week 4. I use hcg in my cycles to prevent that. In the old days we didnt have that info. Today Im so glad we do and the hcg helps pct recorey also.

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## ScotchGuard

kaju, thank you for the feedback. It makes me feel secure there are knowledgeable people like you out there. I am working two-a-days. Once at 5:30am and once at noon. Today I squatted in the am and benched in the pm. I felt really strong. My leg workout was cut short because I felt a lot of pressure on my lower back. It wasn't hurt, it just felt really tight. It felt like I dead lifted 10 sets. 

Squats
Warmup: 135lbs x 10reps x 4 sets
Workout: 205lbs x 10reps x 4 sets

Leg press: 5plates (each side) x 10reps x 4 sets

Leg extension: 80lbs x (10reps, hold 10counts, 10reps, hold 10counts) x 4 sets

My legs were burning but I didn't feel spent.

I have a question on diet. I gained 10lbs so fast I started to eat a diet more like a cutting diet. I still feel strong but I'm not gaining as much weight. My goal is to hang on to 10lb lean muscle after PCT. Would you recommend I continue eating a bulking diet? Thank you for the feedback.

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## kaju

go to the diet section of this forum and you can get more detailed information on your diet.
but to answer your question I would say no. especialy at our age that diet after cycle will convert to fat. make your diet a high protein low carb low fat to maintain your lean muscle. try to eat 1 1/2 -2 1/2grams of protein per pound of body weight. 
right now your body is in a high anabolic state. which will burn fat and build muscle. when you go off your cycle it will not be in such an anabolic state. so you will need to convert you diet at this time. I would suggest 10% fat 50% carb 40% protein.

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## TITANIUM

This post is screwy.First and for most, don't come to the board and try to recruit members.They will ban you.And I agree with that 100%. I'm not going to insult your intelligence, due to the fact, you seem to know what you are talking about.
This guy should be pinning straight test for his first cycle.No exceptions.even at 50 years of age, stacking the first cycle is a bad idea.

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## ScotchGuard

TITANIUM I appreciate your thoughts. Barring unforeseen sides I will finish this cycle. I have carefully researched and planned for contingencies. I am working closely with my Endochronologist at this time. If you have anything constructive to add I am all ears.

I got done with back/tri workout today. This is the strongest I've ever felt. I got a coterzone shot in my shoulder three days ago and I feel like a new man. My bum knee doesn't hurt or swell anymore, no more nagging little aches and pains anywhere. When I was just on the HGH all of my little aches/pain were greatly reduced. But now on Sustanon and DBOL all the aches/pains are no more. Even if this is a temporary side effect, THANK GOODNESS!

I did 50 pullup narrow grip and 50 pullup wide grip. Then I hung 50lbs from my legs and 10reps x 3 sets. After that was over I hung 100lbs from my legs and 5reps x 3 sets. I felt like I could keep going. I only stopped because my training partner was done.

My tricep pull down was 110lbs x 10reps x 4 sets followed by skull knockers 95lbs x 10reps x 3 sets. This is the most I have ever been able to do on my triceps. Again, I know that this anabolic state is temporary but I am very pleasantly surprised. 

I have noticed that my skin is a little more oily than usual. I am carefully monitoring for acne or any other skin irregularities. So far, I've noticed no sign of anything irregular. I got a comment at work about how nice my skin looks. I shower and carefully clean my skin once in the am and once before bed. I use a dermal cream I got from my doctor for oily skin. Maybe over kiill but better safe than sorry. I am also carefully monitoring for any hair loss. None so far. I'm also checking for gonad shrinkage. Again, nothing so far.

My sex drive has increased. It is not crazy like it was in my 30's but definitely higher than a month ago. I'll also monitor this aspect of the cycle. I've not noticed any changes in my mood or "roid rage " to speak of. I work with scouts and I can still get through a troop meeting without screaming at anyone. hahaha. 

I did have swelling of my fingers and hand but it was diagnosed as carpal tunnel syndrome (CTS). I have read in my research that the anabolic state can promote water retention in the joints which could exasperate the CTS. I went to an orthopedic surgeon and got steroid shots in both wrists. So I'm good to go on my training.

Due to my age I assumed that there might be possibility of sides due to age. So far, nothing unusual.

I'm doing 2 workouts/day. I work legs in the am and upper body in the pm. My gains in the lower body is not nearly as significant as my upper. Will my gains begin to deminish when I finish my DBOL (10 more days) and go only on Sustanon? Appreciate the feedback

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## kaju

YOU TOOK A CORTIZONE SHOT WHILE ON A CYCLE OF SUSTANON !!?
cortizine is a cortico steroid in other words a catabolic steroid. it was designed to reduce swelling and inflamation. In doing so it will reduce muscle size and stop muscle growth tempararly. Did your doctor know you were on a sustanon cycle when he gave youthis shot? I dont think so. It can and will counteract with other things you are taking. 
Man; I dont know what to say. 

you mentioned the stiffness in your hands and fingers. this is a common side effect from the HGH you are taking. In fact everyone I know that has taken HGH have this effect in the hands.

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## ScotchGuard

I couldn't remember the name of the anti-inflammatory so I just said Cortizone. It wasn't Cortizone, my bad. My doc said that Cortizone thins out the membranes so he said he didn't want to give it to me. He gave me something else but I couldn't remember the name of it. As for what to call me? Just call me a dumb ass newbie. I make mistakes, but only once.

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## kaju

What ever it was just be carefull. cortico steroids have a much longer life than anabolic steroids.
Sustanon has an active life of about three weeks. Some of the cortico's have a four week life and there half life can last six months. Be sure you talk to your doctor before you let him inject you. If you do not have that kind of relationship with your doc come ask some people here.
You have to be carefull with your doc because some will tell the insurance company and you can loose your insurance and that can open another can of worms

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## ScotchGuard

kaju, thank you for the information. You're one of the few people that point out a mess up and then follow up with some useful advice. I'm week 3 in my 12 week cycle. I never ran across cortizone in my AAS cycle research. Dang, there is a lot of knowledge on this forum.

I'm hot all the time. I take a shower and even before I'm dressed I'm sweating. I'm assuming it's the body in it's anabolic state that's just burning everything. My heart rate is over 90 beats per minute. Normally, my resting heart rate is about 62 to 65 beats per minute. My body temperature was about half a degree below normal and my blood pressure was right at 120/75. I have not done cardio for three weeks while I am on DBOL . I'll start my cardio when I'm off DBOL. Hopefully, my heart rate will go back to normal. 

What do you think about nitric oxide based vascular dilator? My friend was trying to give me a couple of these "pump" pills telling me that I can get a SUPER pump. I already get a HUGE pump as it is. I wonder if this stuff over taxes the heart?

I barbell pressed 145lbs x 5reps x 5sets. My personal best. Then we did standing clean and press with 45lbs dumbbells x 25reps in 30 seconds x 2sets. My strength and endurance is good but my wind is not as good as before. I'll have to see when I start my cardio in two weeks.

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## TITANIUM

OK-Cortisone is a no-no, at least on gear.Counterproductive.
Heart rate sounds good, same thing happened to me.Sweating is your body adjusting to the gear.You have alot of things going on in your body at the same time.

kaju is a smart guy, I've can see this by his posts.I'm am trying to be constructive in nature here.If you read my posts, seldom do I really say anything negative. Always trying to help.( and learn).That never stops.

If you can't sleep, that's normal too.Same stuff I went through. The only reason I try to discourage running alot of gear , at the same time, is that, if a problem arises, it will be next to impossible to know exactly which ones are the cause.

Also, everyones body's are different, so the sides can be very different for you verses someone else.

Hope this helped you.And enjoy feeling 20 years old again, it goes away in between cycles.And PCT also

Good Luck
Titanium

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## ScotchGuard

I appreciate all the feedback both the good and the reprehends. I know that the experts on this board have seen people do some dumb things. I feel confident knowing that there are a lot of experience out there and people are willing to share.

This is the end of the 3rd week. Still no sign of hair loss, acne, gyno and shrinking gonads. I understand that these sides are supposed to take place in the 4th or 5th week. I am prepared with all the potions and lotions.

I have gained 13lbs so far and I'm 193lbs. I've been traveling for business so my diet has suffered. I'm going to get back on my diet as soon as I'm back home. I benched yesterday at 255lbs x 5reps x 5sets. I thought the weight was a little light. I'm still gaining strength. I hear bodybuilders who get strong on a cycle they rip tendons. Is this an urban myth? I'm careful not to go too heavy too fast. I still haven't done any cardio since I started my cycle. I'll start cardio after I finish my DBOL in one more week. Any thoughts on doing cardio after DBOL?

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## kaju

> I appreciate all the feedback both the good and the reprehends. I know that the experts on this board have seen people do some dumb things. I feel confident knowing that there are a lot of experience out there and people are willing to share.
> 
> This is the end of the 3rd week. Still no sign of hair loss, acne, gyno and shrinking gonads. I understand that these sides are supposed to take place in the 4th or 5th week. I am prepared with all the potions and lotions.
> 
> I have gained 13lbs so far and I'm 193lbs. I've been traveling for business so my diet has suffered. I'm going to get back on my diet as soon as I'm back home. I benched yesterday at 255lbs x 5reps x 5sets. I thought the weight was a little light. I'm still gaining strength. I hear bodybuilders who get strong on a cycle they rip tendons. Is this an urban myth? I'm careful not to go too heavy too fast. I still haven't done any cardio since I started my cycle. I'll start cardio after I finish my DBOL in one more week. Any thoughts on doing cardio after DBOL?


no it is not an urban myth.
a young 18year old came to me at my gym asking for advice on what to cycle. I advised him not to.about 6 weeks later he came into the gym looking all ballooned up. that week he 
was doing some heavy curls and broke his arm. the ulna bone. It was quite gross hearing that bone pop. what happened was he had not been in the gym long enough. his bones and tendons were not ready. when he went on the gear his muscles got Strong but the bones did not have time to catch up. the heavy weight broke his arm. i have even seen one guy have his bicep rip right off the bone at the tendon. so no it is not an urban myth.

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## ScotchGuard

OMG! You're serious, aren't you? I've been training with weights for about 30 years and I NEVER was strong enough to break my bone lifting weights. I'd surely like to experience such strength.  :Wink/Grin:

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## TITANIUM

I started when I was 16.Buy the time I was 21,I could bench 300 lbs.At a bodyweight of 180.Tore up my rotor cuffs, and such.But never broke a bone.

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## kaju

> OMG! You're serious, aren't you? I've been training with weights for about 30 years and I NEVER was strong enough to break my bone lifting weights. I'd surely like to experience such strength.


thats just my point. you have been in the gym for thirty years. Your muscles tendons and bones are up to the chalenge. The young man I was talking about had just started lifting. I think he had been in the gym maybe one month at the time he started the juice. I think you are experiencing such strength right now.

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## jrmy

amazing progress man.you do have your pct ready correct?

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## ScotchGuard

I'm on travel right now so my diet's not that great. The 40mg/ed of DBOL is making me retain water like a water buffalo. My fingers are like sausages. My arms and legs aren't very long to begin with and with them being pump to the point the skin's stretched tight I feel like a oompa loompa. LOL

I put up 265lbs x 5reps x 5sets on the bench. Then on the final set 290lbs x 5reps (1 was assisted). I've NEVER been this strong. It must look funny that I only have to push the weight about 6 inches to get it off my chest. LOL I'm tipping the scale at 202lbs. The most I've EVER weighed before this cycle was 185lbs. That was after dinner and dripping wet. I'm glad I'm on travel for the next few weeks. I think the people back home will definitely question my puffy face and body. When I get off DBOL in 5 days a lot of this water weight will come off won't it? Can I expect to keep 10lbs of lean muscle mass? Will my strength drop off also? I don't mind the weight loss but man, I'd really like to hang onto the strength.

Yes, I do have PCT ready. I'm currently on 250iu/2ew of HCG . I have HCG, clomid, nolvadex on hand as arimidex just in case. I'm planning 250iu/ed HCG for the last two weeks of my cycle. Do nothing for three weeks. No HCG, no nothing. Then start up clomid and nolvadex for 4 weeks. I have enough for 6 weeks.

I'm a little nervous. I've never been in this range before. Never been this strong. Never been this big. Never been puffed up like a sausage. Never has SO MUCH oil oozing out of my body, particularly from my face. But even with all the oil I don't have a single acne. Why? I was getting ready for a bad breakout. I'm in an area that I've never been before. Now I know what captain kurt feels like. Am I dating myself with that comment? I'll post some pics of my puffy self tomorrow. It's a little unnerving that my gut is so thick. I've always had a 30" to 32" waist. Now I'm a good 34" and after I eat, i'm even bigger. I guess just gaining weight from my chest and up is too much to hope for. LOL

In 5 days when I get done with DBOL I'm incorporating a strong plyometric/cardo routine into my workout. I've been boxing for 40 year so it feels a little weird not to do ANY cardio exercise right now. I'd like to cut as much water weight over the next 8 weeks without the DBOL. My goal is to keep about 10lbs lean muscle and look ripped. I have a good diet I'm implementing for the remaining 8 weeks. Any feedback on my intention of losing water weight by diet and cardo exercise over the 8 weeks? This means that I won't be lifting heavy like I did for the past 3 weeks. I'd appreciate the feedback.

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## kaju

use some arimadex. .25 a day will do the trick on this bloating and water weight. also avoid sodium like its the plague (sodium as opposed to salt. also do as much cardio as possible. that water weight will come off. dbol has been known to do exactly as you have described. also the GH will make you fingers stiff ans swell.but going into the gym and doing some cardio will do the trick. oh yea drink lots and lots of water.

hey good to hear you are a boxer too. if you've been boxing that long no one needs to tell you how to get a good sweat going. hey do some of your old boxing workouts to get that water off you body. hell Ive gone into my boxing gym dry and leave the gym weighing 5-8 pounds less. I'm sure you have too. so there is your answer to that. 

everything i said above will help you. as long as you stick to a good diet and stay in the gym you will keep most of your gains.
now remember when you go into pct you will go through a mini depression. just fight it and stay determined as you go through your depression. it will pass about the time pct is Ive or until you get your natural hormones back in place. just keep your head right and you will not loose your gains.

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## jrmy

im also keeping an eye on this cycle.good luck with everything man!!

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## ScotchGuard

kaju said it would take about 4 weeks for gonads to shrink and sides to show. Dang, if he wasn't right. I'm noticing very small red dots on my chest and abs. Not bad just little pin head spots of acne. I can count about a dozen of 'em. No acne head on them, just small red spots. I look in the mirror but I can't really tell if the red dots are on my back. My wife hasn't said anything so I don't think it's a big deal.

When I examine myself my gonads seem to be higher in my body. I can also tell that there has been a little shrinkage. It's amazing that a bunch of bodybuilders are running around with no nuts benching 400+ lbs. LOL Yep, two more days and week 4 is over. Almost 1/3 into my 12 weeks cycle. Dang, if he wasn't right.

I didn't get any response back about the nitric oxide supplement so I tried a couple of pills yesterday. GREAT pump and endurance even more than normal. Maybe it's a one time thing but I'll try it a few more times and see if the results are consistent. Because of jet lag I didn't sleep well and when I went to the gym I didn't take the NO2 supplement. A little flat. I really wanted to push my legs but just felt flat. I worked the heavy bag for about 5 minutes and really felt tired. I guess the 98 degree heat and 90% humidity doesn't help either. Oh, yeah no air conditioning. I lost 6 lbs today after a 1.5 hour workout. Total water weight but still, 6lbs.

I have posted pictures. The 15lb gain doesn't really show up because I gained uniformly. In the side pose you can see my gut is more pronounced. Just had lunch.  :Smilie:  My body looks smooth from the water retention. I'll post few weeks into the Sustanon only stage. I'm curious to see if the water logged muscles will get harder. My goal is to gain about 10lbs lean muscle. My body was never very vascular even at 5% bf during my peak competition (mma) condition. Genetics? Yeah, it sucks. LOL

I'm working my legs hard but not much growth. I pin IGF-lr3 thighs on Monday and Ham/calf on Friday. Going on 4 weeks and not much growth. Any suggestions? I would really like to have stronger/beefier legs.

There is still a lot of oil being secreted by my body. Particularly on the face. I can feel the oil when I wipe my face. I take one of those dermal paper the teenagers use and I can saturate a sheet in 10 seconds. Normal? I feel like the greasiest 50yo on earth. LOL

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## kaju

You said you have HCG . You should be using the HCG right now every four or five days. use it up untill you start PCT. it will keep your boys at the right size and keep them in working order. Do not use HCG during pct. many people will tell you this but that information was before the new studies came out proving the use of Hcg will hinder your PCT. 
hey great pics ! I can see a big difference.
Running a cycle of test will do that to our skin. but for future refrence the longer the ester the more skin problems you will have. That is another reason why I prefer shorter esters. sustanon will do that to you. when on a test cycle is kind of like being a teenager again. Isnt it great?!
I did comment on the NOS I just didnt comment on that directly. NOS will do the same thing as viagra and cialis. The NOS will help but it does nothing as a muscle grower or builder. it gives you great pumps but that is only asthetics and it feels good. but when your muscles are flat they wil still grow when you work them it just dosnt feel as good as when you get that good pump. check your diet to make sure you have a good enough glycogen in your diet before a work out. so next time you are in the gym and your muscle feel flat dont ***** out. push push push. 
Hey it sounds like you live where I do with but I have 100 degree temps and 98% humidity. 
I too have precticed MMA 
Hey scotch I sent you a PM

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## glover

Good work and progress. Just wondering, Do you shave your body?

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## ScotchGuard

kaju, I sincerely appreciate your feedback. I've done a lot of research but there are things that one does not find out until one's in a cycle. It give me a piece of mind knowing there are others who have more experience and are willing to share. This is a GREAT forum. I'm learning a ton from this cycle.

Hi glover, no I don't shave my body. I simply don't have hair. I have some chest hair but only 6 of them. LOL My kids think I shave my legs. I assure you I don't NAIR my legs. LOL. I tried to grow a mustache once for about 6 months. All 12 hairs on my lips stuck straight out into the air like it was at attention. It looked too funny and didn't look "macho" at all so I shaved them all off. One at a time. LOL

Yesterday was shoulder day. Barbell Standing Military Press 95lbs X 10reps X 4 sets for warm up. 185lbs X 5 reps X 5 sets. Dumbell Standing Military Press 65lbs X 10reps X 4sets. One arm dumbbell clean and jerk 75lbs X 5reps X 2sets. Speed dumbbell military press (starting with arms at sides, curl then military press the dumbbells as fast as you can for 30 seconds) 40lbs X 30sec (25 reps) X 2sets. Man, my cardio conditioning stinks my lungs were burning. 2 bag cycles (punch bag for 30sec, sit up for 30sec, kick bag for 30sec, standing flys (light) for 30secs). 4 minutes of cardio and I had to lie down. I felt strong throughout the workout but the cardio cycles took it out of me. PWO shake, dinner, home.

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## ScotchGuard

I topped 200lbs today. That's a total gain of 20lbs in 4 weeks. The 20lbs seems to be a combo of water and muscles. I'm in this humid hot weather so I'm constantly drinking water and I feel bloated all the time. When I stepped on the scale my gut was distended from lunch and drinking water constantly throughout the day. Never-the-less I've officially tipped the scale at 200lbs. This is the first time ever in my life I've made it past 200lbs.

Back and bi's today. Lat pull down 120lbs X 10reps X 4sets for warm up. 200lbs X 10reps X 3 sets. 225lbs X 5 reps X 3sets. Hung two plates (90lbs) from my hips and did pull ups X 5reps X 3sets. Bent over rows 165lbs X 10reps X 5sets. I'm sweating something fierce. I feel light headed and the heat's really eating me up. Dumbbell curls 50lbs X 8reps X 3sets. Barbell curls 115lbs X 8reps X 2sets. 135lbs X 5reps X 3sets. Cardio (30sec punch bag, 30sec jumping jacks with barbell, 30sec kick the bag, 30sec crunches) X 4sets. K, I'm ready to pass out now. The heat is too much. I'm just not used to the heat and the super dense sea level air. My head's throbbing and I'm leaking sweat like a colander. I drank 3 quarts of water during a 90 minute workout. Am I doing too much? As I'm reading my workout I wonder if I'm burning muscle. Any feedback?

The little red pin head acne are more pronounced. Not like a teenager, yet. I'm starting to cramp up a bit. A I'm sitting typing this post my biceps are beginning to cramp. I've saturated myself well. I got a cramp in my hamstring last night in bed. Not fun. I also got a cramp in my feet. Is cramping normal part of the cycle? Anything I can do to reduce the cramping? My chest, shoulders, bi/tri, back are pumped all day long. I go to comb my hair and my arms get pumped. I type on the computer and my forearms gets pumped. I suspect the hypertrophy is the result of the DBOL ? Tomorrow's my last day on DBOL. I'm curious to see how quickly I lose the water weight being only on sustanon . I have no joint pain, tendon pain, muscle pain, I feel great. No noticeable hair loss. Still secreting a lot of oil from the face and upper body. No mood swings. I was worried about "roid rage " nothing so far. As sides go, I've not notices anything significant. Thus far, the cycle seems to be going well.

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## ScotchGuard

I've been told to look into Arimidex to shed water weight. I understand the dosage to be .25mg/ed. I have 8 weeks left in my cycle so if I take Arimidex now during my cycle do I still need to take it during PCT?

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## kaju

From sweating so hard be sure you take a multi vitamin every day to help alleviate the cramps and or eat a banana every day to help with the cramps. and no you do not need arimadex for pct you only need nolva and clomid

as far as roid rage I do not believe it. as far as I'm concerned roid rage is only a myth. I mean come on. how many people have road rage every day and that is not caused by roids unless every body that has road rage is on roids. I believe the media has gotten it wrong again and blew something they were wrong about way out of per portion. I could go on about this but there is no proof that there is roid rage. When people go into these rages what other chemicals are they taking and what other factors are there that go into this whole thing. 
When I'm on the juice the wife likes me better. she says I'm always in a better mood. that is because i feel so much better. OK I'm getting off my soap box about roid rage but that subject makes me want to go into a rage.

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## ScotchGuard

I resigned to the fact that those little red pinhead spots are have indeed turned into small acne heads. They're still pretty small and they are most plentiful on my back. As long as I wear a shirt they are not too noticeable. The thing that bugs me are the little sores that have popped up on my scalp. These little sores are more a nuisance than anything.

First day of Sust with no DBOL . I don't feel any different. Today was a chest/tri day. 135lbs x 10reps x 4sets for warmup. 225lbs x 10reps x 5sets. 295lbs x 5reps x 3 sets. 85lbs inclined dumbell press 10reps x 3 sets. 65lbs inclined dumbbell flys 10reps x 4sets. My endurance wasn't as good today. I had a hard time sleeping last night. Normally, I take 1mg of benedryl and I'm OUT. LOL but last night I didn't want to do that so I went natural. I tossed and turned all night. Is poor sleep a normal part of the cycle? I have read that the test improves sleep. Man, it isn't working for me.

Feel super pumped though the torso area. No joint pains or muscle pains. Been taking my HCG 250mg every 3.5days. My gonads have some shrinkage but not too noticeable. Lots of oil still being secreted by my body. I don't want to be a pimply teenager again. LOL

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## ScotchGuard

It seems that there are no new acne popping up on my body. I've gotten some dermal soap then cleaning the acne with hydrogen peroxide after the shower. I've also put Erythromycin as a bacteria killer before before bed. After three treatments it seems the acne has stopped growing and is beginning to heal. 

The acne's been the only sides that I've noticed. No hair loss, no appreciable gonad shrinkage with the use of HCG , and I continue to make gains. Yesterday was chest/tris. 135lbs x 10reps x 4 sets for warmup. 225lbs x 10reps x 2 sets, 265lbs x 6reps x 2 sets, 315lbs x 3 reps x 2 sets. This is my personal best to date. My muscles are not as round like I was on DBOL but I'm still making strength gains. Dumbbell inclined press 85lbs x 10reps x 4 sets. 

I'm noticing that my heart's beating really hard when I go to bed. Is this normal? I just feel that guy thumping away in my chest. I also sweat at the drop of a hat. I am leaning out more each day. My diet could be better but while I'm on this extended business travel I have a hard time controlling my diet. My weight's at 202lbs and seemed to have leveled off when I came off of DBOL. I'm continuing to train hard and report my observations.

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## kaju

I'm sorry I did not read back over everything you have posted in the past but please remind me just exactly you are taking right now at this moment.

It sounds as if you have a handle on the acne. and the hcg will take care of your boys while on cycle. 

when you say your heart is beating give us some more info on that. how many beats per second and are there and is anything else going on with that? also check your blood pressure. and is this at rest when you are feeling this? how long since any kind of activity when this happens?

hormones can affect this but it is different for every one. sustanon is a multi test formula and who knows maybe it is the sustonon. I'm do not know enough about this but I would do a little research on this. but if your blood pressure is up to high you need to get that taken care of. There are many people that do a cycle while taking a blood pressure med. but you will have to ask someone else about that I have not looked into it. 
but from the things you said it sounds like elevated blood pressure. get it checked out.

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## ScotchGuard

My blood pressure is right at 120/80. My heart rate is 88 bpm. Prior to my cycle it is normally at about 65 bpm. It's gone up but I don't feel flushed or have head aches or anything like that. It's just when I lie down to sleep I can practically hear my heart beating. Now that I'm off the DBOL and doing cardio along with the weight training I can see myself losing water weight. My strength hasn't gone down much.

Today was shoulder/traps Barbell military 95lbs x 10reps x 4sets for warmup. Dumbbell military 65lbs x 10reps x 4sets, seated barbell 135lbs x 10reps x 4sets, standing flys 30lbs x 10reps x 4 sets (pretty easy). Shrugs dead weight 275lbs x 10reps x 6sets. Sweating like a pig. I can consistently lose 4 to 6lbs of water weight each time. I hydrate during workout and PWO shake.

My acne looks terrible but doesn't really affect me in any way. There is no pain, discharge, or any new acne. I assume it will eventually heal and go away. It seems that at this point I am sort of cruising through the cycle. I will continue to post observations and changes I see.

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## ScotchGuard

It seems that this acne issue is more serious than I initially thought. The hydrogen peroxide and the Erythromycin are healing the acne that's already matured but I also see new acne coming on. I'll have to do more research and figure out something else.

My gains are much slower now. I think I've peaked out my strength potential. I am watching my diet and supplementing. I've gained 25lbs since I started my cycle. My bench went up by 60lbs in 6 weeks. It's actually a little scary. People around me are asking about my gains. I tell them I'm in the "bulking" phase as I reach for a donut. hahaha

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## Tarheel

Hey scotchguard, Ive been following you progress as I am interested in a similar cycle in the near future. Congrats on your results thus far. How much longer do you have till you start pct?

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## ScotchGuard

Tarheel, I have 6 more weeks before I'm done the gear and 9 more weeks before I start PCT.

I uploaded some pictures of my acne issue. The shiny stuff on my skin is anti-bacterial cream. I wish I could post just awesome gains but my goal is to report all results including sides. This acne is very inconvenient but does not affect the cycle at all. I'm pushing through until the end.

I've got some new demal soap and topical. I'm a little hesitant to take anything oral while I'm in the middle of my cycle. I am planning to get some Vitamin B5. The B5 sounds innocuous when compared to accutane. I'm open to suggestions from those with more experience. At this point, I would recommend that anyone planning a cycle be prepared for the sides. In my case, I could have been better prepared for the acne and started precautionary washing sooner.

I woke up with a puffy face today and my hand were a little tight. I thought I just didn't get a good sleep but I remembered I upped my dosage of HGH from 5iu/day to 8iu/day. Too much of a jump. I'm going back down to 5iu/day. No other physical symptoms except for the puffy face and tightness in the hands.

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## kaju

looking good from the pics. I am going to caution you about the acutane. that is some serious stuff. it has its own side effects that are pretty bad. I recomend that you use acutane if all else fails.

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## Tarheel

whe I was a teenager, I went to a dermatologist to get accutane but she said that my my liver values were too high for it (i.e. lipid profile and enzymes)...just so info for ya

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## keithrichards

ScotchGuard, great thread.
It is hard to believe that you are 50 years old. It gives me hope (I'm 47). 
Where did you get the hydrostatic body fat test done?

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## ScotchGuard

keithrichards, I got my body fat measurement done at a local university. They allow the public to use their human performance lab. I got my hydro test done for $15.

The new topical and body wash seems to be keeping the acne at bay. I still look like a leper but the existing acne seems to be healing. I still get a few new ones here and there.

I put up 335lbs on the flat bench. My personal best. If I keep pushing hard it seems that the body responds. I'm a little tentative about pushing too hard while on gear I remind myself that I am 50 and that my body isn't what it was 20 years ago. I'd hate to blow a rotator or tendon.

Besides the acne I'm not noticing any other significant sides. My facial hairs are a little more prominent. As you can see from the pictures I have very little body hair but my facial hairs seem to be growing a little faster and thicker. So instead of having 6 facial hairs now I have 12. LOL No change in my mood. I read about guys on gear that feel a surge of libido. I feel perfectly normal not packing wood all day in my shorts.

I also find that 90 minutes is the optimal workout period for me. Any less I don't feel "done", any more and I feel tired the next day. I also found I can't take thermogenics before a workout. My heart rate speeds up so much I get light headed and I'm afraid I'll blow a gasket in my head. I don't feel as bad when I take a vascular dilator. 

One of the nice sides that I've noticed is that I don't have ANY nagging aches and pains I normally have. My hips don't hurt, my bum knee doesn't hurt, no nagging back aches, dang I LOVE this stuff. LOL I know all the aches and pains will come back when the cycle's done but I'm sure enjoying it now.

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## glover

Amen to that I feel like doing a cycle just to get rid of the aches and pains.

Do you plan to use the hgh for only the 16 weeks?

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## ScotchGuard

glover, I've been on HGH/IGF for 5 months now. I plan on using both for a year. I've had really good results to date. I'm at 6iu/day now and IGF 3times/wk. When my HGH powder runs out I'm going to try the AQ HGH. I read that it is more effective than HGH powder and causes zero HGH antibodies. We'll see.

It was a long workday and I didn't feel quite as sharp going to the gym today. It was back/bi day. Pull down 130lbs x 10reps x 4 sets warm up. 250lbs x 10reps x 3 sets. Bent over rows 205lbs x 10reps x 3 sets. Dumbbell bent over rows 115lbs x 10reps x 3sets. The last two sets were really hard. Barbell curls 115lbs x 10reps x 3 sets. DONE! Took about an hour in the gym and I was out of there. I really wasn't in the mood to go the gym today. 

My acne's much more under control now. After two weeks of washing and topical treatment the older acne are healing and there are only a few new ones popping up. 

I've been a bAAAAAAAAAAAAd boy. I've been on a see food diet. Yep, I'm eating everything in sight except for high carb stuff like donuts and cake. I'm still on travel so it's almost impossible to regulate my eating. Work all day and eat with the rest of the crew. Still very little fat gain that I can see. I'll take a hydrostatic measurement next week and we'll see if I've just been bad or if I've been a hog.

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## glover

You are getting pretty strong. Wonder how much of your strength can be attributed to HGH? Anybobdy got an answer on that? 

Are you going to continue using AAS after this cycle? What's your long term plans?

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## ScotchGuard

glover, I don't know the exact amount the HGH is helping but this is what I have recorded in my workout journal. Before HGH the best bench workout was 185lbs x 10reps x 10sets. When I was on HGH/IGF only I was doing 205lbs x 10reps x 10sets. Now that I'm on AAS also, my best is 225lbs x 10reps x 10sets. The last few sets are pretty hard. 

Today was shoulder day. Barbell military 95lbs x 10 reps x 4 sets for warm up. 135lbs x 10reps x 1set, 185lbs x 10reps x 1set, 165lbs x 10reps x 2sets. Dumbell military 65lbs x 10reps x 3sets. Standing flys 30lbs x 10reps x 3sets. Then standing barbell shrugs for traps. 135lbs x 10reps x 1set warmup. 225lbs x 10reps x 2sets. 315lbs x 10reps x 1set, 365lbs x 10reps x 1set. Done

I'm getting stronger on certain lifts. On other lifts like military press it depends on how much rest I had the evening before. I have read that sleep is important to maximize growth during a cycle. I have now experience first hand how true that advice is.

I injured, tore I think, my rotator cuff right before my cycle and I've been pushing really hard so it hasn't has a chance to heal. My left arm get lame after a hard workout particularly after a back workout. It seems all the pulling irritates the rotator. I will get a coterzone shot after my cycle and do more physical therepy.

My initial goal was to just gain about 10 pounds of lean muscle mass and get a little stronger. I gained 25lbs and got a lot stronger. It's a little scary actually. I was planning to do this one cycle, mainly out of curiosity about AAS, and be done. The thing I found was that for the last two months I'm free from all my nagging aches and pains. WOW WOW WOW, I love it. I haven't found anything that makes me feel pain free like AAS has done for the last two months. I've NEVER experienced such relief from my little nagging aches and pains like AAS. I will stay on HGH long term. About 4iu/ed or 5iu/ed for at least a year. I'll do some research and see if there is a cycle that will give me minimum growth/sides but give me the benefits of no aches and pains. I don't really care if I look like Mr. Universe when I'm 60. I just want to have a high quality of life.

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## kaju

> glover, I don't know the exact amount the HGH is helping but this is what I have recorded in my workout journal. Before HGH the best bench workout was 185lbs x 10reps x 10sets. When I was on HGH/IGF only I was doing 205lbs x 10reps x 10sets. Now that I'm on AAS also, my best is 225lbs x 10reps x 10sets. The last few sets are pretty hard. 
> 
> Today was shoulder day. Barbell military 95lbs x 10 reps x 4 sets for warm up. 135lbs x 10reps x 1set, 185lbs x 10reps x 1set, 165lbs x 10reps x 2sets. Dumbell military 65lbs x 10reps x 3sets. Standing flys 30lbs x 10reps x 3sets. Then standing barbell shrugs for traps. 135lbs x 10reps x 1set warmup. 225lbs x 10reps x 2sets. 315lbs x 10reps x 1set, 365lbs x 10reps x 1set. Done
> 
> I'm getting stronger on certain lifts. On other lifts like military press it depends on how much rest I had the evening before. I have read that sleep is important to maximize growth during a cycle. I have now experience first hand how true that advice is.
> 
> I injured, tore I think, my rotator cuff right before my cycle and I've been pushing really hard so it hasn't has a chance to heal. My left arm get lame after a hard workout particularly after a back workout. It seems all the pulling irritates the rotator. I will get a coterzone shot after my cycle and do more physical therepy.
> 
> My initial goal was to just gain about 10 pounds of lean muscle mass and get a little stronger. I gained 25lbs and got a lot stronger. It's a little scary actually. I was planning to do this one cycle, mainly out of curiosity about AAS, and be done. The thing I found was that for the last two months I'm free from all my nagging aches and pains. WOW WOW WOW, I love it. I haven't found anything that makes me feel pain free like AAS has done for the last two months. I've NEVER experienced such relief from my little nagging aches and pains like AAS. I will stay on HGH long term. About 4iu/ed or 5iu/ed for at least a year. I'll do some research and see if there is a cycle that will give me minimum growth/sides but give me the benefits of no aches and pains. I don't really care if I look like Mr. Universe when I'm 60. I just want to have a high quality of life.


You are right. rest and sleep are very important. muscle reapir and growth happen when you are asleep. 
I have never don hgh but plan to.
when you mentioned aas helping you with all the aches and pains this is why some men our age go onto trt. The thought is there for me but Im not ready yet. I feel my natural test production is still strong. but when it starts to slow down too much I will go onto trt.

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## ScotchGuard

Due to my traveling I was unable to pin my last sus dose. I normally pin 250mg on Monday and Thursday but I couldn't pin on Thursday. I haven't noticed any difference in my strength during my workout for the last 4 days. I'm planning to pin 250mg on Monday and get back to my regular schedule. I know there will be a spike in my Test level so I'll report anything I see that's irregular. My main concern is that my acne doesn't flare up due to the spike in Test. I'll see how that goes.

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## chicmagnet

Looking good Scotch, great cosntructive advice kaju.

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## ScotchGuard

Finally got home from my extended business trip. I've pinned my 250mg sust and getting back in the swing of things in terms of workout. I've been traveling, dieting (trying), and working out. It has not been an ideal situation. Now that I'm back to my regular schedule I'll be more consistent in my diet and workout. I hope to continue my gains throughout the next four weeks of the cycle. By the way, this forum is "FORBIDDEN" in China. But I was able to continue my logs right through the government censorship. Wahahaha

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## kaju

> Finally got home from my extended business trip. I've pinned my 250mg sust and getting back in the swing of things in terms of workout. I've been traveling, dieting (trying), and working out. It has not been an ideal situation. Now that I'm back to my regular schedule I'll be more consistent in my diet and workout. I hope to continue my gains throughout the next four weeks of the cycle. By the way, this forum is "FORBIDDEN" in China. But I was able to continue my logs right through the government censorship. Wahahaha


Glad you made it back safe and sound. 
censorship works doesn't it. if you don't believe me just ask the experts. communist china. Iatola akmedinajad (I don't think I spelled it right.) communist north Korea communist Cuba. they will all tell you censorship works :Haha:

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## ScotchGuard

I can safely say, since I'm back in the USA, that I was in communist China and surrounding areas for the past month. Whew, glad to be back home. All, no matter what ANYONE tells me there no place better than sleeping in your own bed. I worked out at a gym over there. It's so humid and hot that all the weights that aren't rubber or stainless are rusted. The pulleys stick and everything is generally worn. I did bench my personal best of 335lbs on a rusty bench sweating like a pig in the 93 degree 91% humidity. As you can guess there is no air conditioning and with all the sweaty bodies it seems 10 degrees hotter in the gym. Yep, HOT and SWEATY. I would lose 6lbs to 8lbs of sweat in one 90 minute workout. I'd spot for a guy on the bench and drip sweat all over his face. Sorry dude.

There were some big boys in the gym. 240lbs 260lbs but no one could bench over 300lbs. I look at their workout and these guys are doing 20 sets on the bench, whew! They just weren't getting strong. They told me I was the strongest guy they've ever seen. I'm 200lbs and bench 335lbs. I think that's good but I've seen guys a LOT stronger than me. I think the serious lifters in China really don't have the resources, like this forum, to learn about diet, training, supplementation, etc. The science of sports nutrition and training is really advanced in the US.

I actually loved everything about China. The people were very friendly and everyone I met LOVED anything American. It wasn't like anything I thought it would be. I did notice police everywhere. None of them were armed. I guess when you have a country where firearm possession could be punished by death the cops don't have to carry guns either. I also found out there are no traffic laws in China only traffic suggestions. Hahaha People driving up a freeway off ramp, going the wrong way on a 1 way street, making a U turn from the far right lane on a 4 lane road, common occurrences. LOL I love China! LOL It's strange to me that I can't buy a syringe from a pharmacy but I can buy oxycontin off the internet. I figured since I was in China I should look up some gear producers. It was really interesting what I found. There are some good and some bad everywhere I guess. I would recommend to anyone buying gear from China that they should test the gear if possible.

Overall, my China experience was great. I ate a lot of Chinese food, met some great people, found some gear, did some business, and where in the US can one get a 2hr body massage a 2hr foot massage, 30min scalp massage, a shampoo and a hair cut for $25? LOL Yeah, I was spoiled.

They censor the internet quite a bit. But I just VPN'd into my office in the US and I could get to anything I wanted. So no biggie. No forum.steroid .com in China, their loss. This site has taught me more about nutrition, training, and overall health recipe than I have learned in 35 years of going to the gym. Thanks for all the good advice I've received and all the good posts I've read. Keep going everyone!

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## johnsomebody

I've always heard there's a problem with Sust in that when you go off, the short esters clear right away but you need to still wait a couple weeks for the long ones to clear. The problem is that there's such a low level of the long esters in Sust that you're at a disadvantage those last couple weeks trying to keep going on such a low level of test for so long.

Is that a legitimate concern? I've always thought it would be best to include some prop the last week or so on Sust.

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## ScotchGuard

johns.., I actually thought about that. But it seems that the standard recommendation on first time cycle is straight Test E for 12 weeks. So if that is working well with people then sus 250 should be good for 12 weeks, yeah?

I've injured my shoulder really bad before the cycle so I've been working through pain for the past 8 weeks. All of the heavy training has further injured my shoulder so I am not sure I can continue to train upper body. I'll have to workout a therapy routine to rehab the shoulder as I try to make gains for the remaining 4 weeks of my cycle.

I am wondering if I should stop my cycle now, after 8 weeks, rehab the shoulder, wait 6 months and start a fresh cycle. I could use some advice from the forum. I was also wondering if I could stay in the cycle and work only lower body and arms. I can't really bench, military or do backs. Thus far, I have made great gains but I doubt I can keep it if I can't really train. So I'm wondering if I cut my losses and start another cycle in 6 months.

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## glover

Sounds really bad. What is making your shoulder hurt, do you know?

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## johnsomebody

Oh God, I'd cut it short and concentrate on recovery for the shoulder, if you're sure that training is only making it worse. 

Sust is actually a combination of different esters of test, so they clear at different rates.

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## johnsomebody

By the way, here's my shoulder story: I've only done 3 cycles but after the last one I developed some real problems with my left shoulder. I got a referral to a physical therapist who explained that I had unconsciously trained my left shoulder to seat improperly in the socket. It may have been that way for years, because it was an adaptation to my workspace layout. It took over a year of prescribed stretches and exercises (fortunately I didn't have to cut back on my regular routine) for the shoulder to stay seated in the socket properly. I haven't done a cycle since because of it but I really suspect if i hadn't gotten treatment I may not be able to work my upper body at all at this point, so it was all good.

The doctor, by the way, had no clue but the PT spotted it right away. He told me I'd probably been bad for years and it could take years to retrain my shoulder.

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## kaju

> johns.., I actually thought about that. But it seems that the standard recommendation on first time cycle is straight Test E for 12 weeks. So if that is working well with people then sus 250 should be good for 12 weeks, yeah?
> 
> I've injured my shoulder really bad before the cycle so I've been working through pain for the past 8 weeks. All of the heavy training has further injured my shoulder so I am not sure I can continue to train upper body. I'll have to workout a therapy routine to rehab the shoulder as I try to make gains for the remaining 4 weeks of my cycle.
> 
> I am wondering if I should stop my cycle now, after 8 weeks, rehab the shoulder, wait 6 months and start a fresh cycle. I could use some advice from the forum. I was also wondering if I could stay in the cycle and work only lower body and arms. I can't really bench, military or do backs. Thus far, I have made great gains but I doubt I can keep it if I can't really train. So I'm wondering if I cut my losses and start another cycle in 6 months.


go to the doctor get an ex-ray and get back to us.

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## johnsomebody

Here's a warning though: the shoulder I mentioned was X-rayed and the doctor said I had arthritis and had to stop doing stuff like swimming laps. This sucked cuz I've swum laps every week for like 25 years. 

He said, by the way, he could refer me to a PT if I wanted to, so I grabbed at that. The PT examined me and determined the problem was some kind of muscle imbalance, what I mentioned earlier, and swimming was good not bad. He pretty much dismissed the doctor's diagnosis altogether, without being too up front about it.

So after a year of doing the stretches and stuff the PT recommended, while still working out, my left shoulder is good as the right. I have NO problems at all. It took about a year to get the strength and muscle balance in my left shoulder up to that of my right.

Just a warning to always get a second opinion from an expert -general practitioners can be clueless when it comes to problems that relate to working out. It seems to me it's all operate, operate, pills, pills because in this country at least, that's where their money is.

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## ScotchGuard

I did go to a orthopedic surgeon once. He gave me a shot in the shoulder and sent me on my way, that was it. After a couple of weeks my shoulder was bad again. My shoulder pops and hurts. I wonder if it is off socket. I fell back in an office chair and slammed my elbow into the carpet and jolted my shoulder. Guess what? My shoulder felt great. I go for a workout and my shoulder's bad again. Even as I'm writing this I brought my elbow up and shoved it into my shoulder real hard and felt a small pop. My shoulder still hurts but the pain isn't bad. Crazy, huh? Maybe I can keep popping my shoulder in and keep working out. What do you think? 

I will go to a ortho again get a referral to a PT. This really stinks. I'll report what the ortho and PT recommend. Thanks for the feedback.

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## johnsomebody

Maybe I was lucky cuz they sent me to a PT that specializes in sports medicine. 

It would be way worse to permanently damage your shoulder and if this has been building for a long time, like mine was, you may be lucky you caught it now. 

I knew a woman whose hip joint was never seated properly -she didn't know anything was wrong until while jogging one day she fell flat on her face and couldn't get up. It may have been that way her entire life and just finally gave way one day. She may be crippled for life now, from last time I talked to her.

Anyway, good luck! Post how your PCT goes -that was always the hard part for me!

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## ScotchGuard

I woke up this morning after setting my shoulder last night. Discomfort but not incapacitating pain. I think my shoulder's not seated right. john, if it wasn't for your shoulder story it would never have occurred to me that my shoulder could be out. I made a 90 degree at my elbow and shoved my elbow real hard straight up. Quick and sharp pain. After 30 minutes or so I have mobility back and a LOT less pain. John, I think I have exactly what you had. Would you mind looking through youtube and seeing if there are shoulder stretches/exercises that was taught to you? I'm no Einstein but I think in this particular case I have a better idea about my shoulder than the ortho. I'd like to PT myself back. I'll still see an ortho and go to PT but I'm more and more convinced that I have a shoulder that's out. I say this because I felt my shoulder go numb when I was doing 85lbs dumbbell military press. My right was going up but my left hurt and was numb. If I can keep setting my shoulder I'm staying with light weights and more reps to finish my cycle. I'm highly motivated to finish my cycle but I am definitely open to counsel from those that have more experience.

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## kaju

I'm not doctor of PT but I do know a little. 
The human body is the most efficient machine on earth. that being said the shoulder is the most shitty joint in our body. It is highly prone to injury of many sorts. It can be one of the most debilitating injuries also. The pain can put a man in disability for a while. 
There are many muscles and tendons that connect the shoulder from arm to torso. it only takes one of the muscles or tendons to tear or rip to get your joint out of alignment. I'm not even going to go into ball and socket injuries and wear at this point. because It would be too lengthy and I really do not think it applies at this point.
You have major and Minor muscles in you shoulder. the major muscles you can see and the minor muscles which lie beneath the major muscles that are supporting muscles. 
if you take you finger and press around you may find the exact place of pain. if you Find a place about the size of a dime it may be something as simple as tendinitis. if it is in the muscle origin it can be a torn muscle. If it is in the muscle insertion it can be a torn ligament. In either of the cases it is going to have to be immobilized to heal. 
When it heals do not do military presses anymore. in fact do not use fixed barbells for any exercise. start using dumbbells for all exercise. They will make you stronger because they engage the underlying minor muscles and in turn help prevent the injury you have incurred. I could go on and on about this but I believe you get the point now. 
as for the question should you stop your cycle only you can answer that.
again go to the doctor and get an ex ray. let him diagnose your problem. do not tell him you are on a cycle unless you just absolutely have to. if you tell him you are on cycle you run the risk of him putting it in his medical report and the insurance company may deny your claim or drop you. Keep that in mind. after your diagnosis come back here and let us know.

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## johnsomebody

Yeah, I agree. After I had my shoulder thing I spent some time looking at how the anatomy works and it's really amazing that shoulders work at all! It's so complex I don't think there's any way you can diagnose it yourself and I'd highly recommend seeing both a doctor and a PT, like I mentioned before. 

I was afraid I'd have to drop working out for a long period of time, even though the problem arose AFTER my last cycle, but the PT said it would be no problem though the doctor almost wrote me off.

As for the stretches, there were a TON of them and the whole routine took almost half an hour a day. Since they were specific to my particular problem I wouldn't recommend you try them -I know I tried the self-diagnosis routine via hours of web research and if I'd followed it all, I'd have never recovered. It was all totally unrelated to my problem.

Esssentially, my brain had trained my shoulder to seat improperly in the socket. Who knew?

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## ScotchGuard

john and kaju your advice is well noted. I'll go see my doc in a week or so when he gets back from Iraq. He'll probably send me over to a specialist who then will send me over to a PT. I've been concentrating on my lower body for the last week. I did 600 sit ups in half an hour (20 sit ups/min X 30 min). This is probably a really good time to concentrate on my chicken legs. Hahaha. My legs have become much stronger during this cycle but they're still skinny. I'm kind of at a loss on how to get my legs bigger. My normal quad workout is: 135lbs x 10reps x 4sets for warmup. Squat 225lbs x 10reps x 6sets. Leg press 12 plates (total) x 10reps x 4sets. Leg extension 120lbs x 20reps x 3sets. Then I have a hard time walking down the stairs. If I get bored of this routine I do less weighted sets and do jumping to a bench, one legged jumps, etc. for more of a plyo/cardio workout. But my legs are still pretty skinny. I've been kickboxing for 30 years so I have good control of my legs and can generate a lot of power in my kicks. However, I've never been able to fully harness the potential in my legs 'cause they're not tree trunk legs like some of my training partners. Any secret to building a set of thick beefy legs?

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## kaju

Sounds as if you are doing it right. these kids of things just take a while. 
I too have been kick boxing and martial arts for the past thirty years. 
My legs are not where I would like them. I think my legs are too skinny for the rest of my body. I don't know if it has something to do with our thirty years of training of if we are just both not genetically gifted in that area.

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## ScotchGuard

I've been really babying the shoulder and spending about 30 minutes daily on shoulder exercises I learned on YouTube. My shoulder feels a lot better but too early to lift on it. The acne is still there. I still look like a leper but not many new acne showing up. 

Been concentrating on legs and abs. Squats 135lbs x 10reps x 4sets for warm up. 225lbs x 10reps x 6sets. Leg press 12plates (total) x 10reps x 3sets. Leg extensions 120lbs x 20reps x 3sets. Squat jumps 10reps x 4sets. Sit ups with 25lbs behind the head 10reps x 6sets.

Everything else on the body feels great. Getting over jet lag now and feeling a little better. It seems like the older I get the harder it is for me to recover from a long flight. I might go to Iraq for a project. Anyone know if gear can be bought OTC? Just as a note, my diet's not been ideal for the last 5 weeks since I've traveling so much. But my stomach is still holding a six pack? I think it's the HGH. I'm not eating poorly but I definitely could be eating more clean. This HGH is helping me keep my body lean even though my diet's not perfect. I'm really curious how much I can keep from this cycle after PCT. I wonder if the HGH/IGF will help me keep more gains over someone that's not using HGH/IGF. I fluctuate between 200lb and 205lbs depending on when I weigh myself.

kaju, thank you for your insightful thoughts, as always. But you're not telling me what I want to hear. You have a lot more experience than I. If you tell me, "Just take xxx gear, eat yyy food, do zzz workout and voila you'll have tree trunk HE MAN legs!" I'd sell my car and get everything I need, set up the couch in the garage just in case the wife gets mad, and totally get on that program. LOL

I did some push ups (300 reps) and my shoulder was a little stiff but after a warm shower, a massage, and a good night's sleep my shoulder feels good today.

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## kaju

kaju, thank you for your insightful thoughts, as always. But you're not telling me what I want to hear. You have a lot more experience than I. If you tell me, "Just take xxx gear, eat yyy food, do zzz workout and voila you'll have tree trunk HE MAN legs!" I'd sell my car and get everything I need, set up the couch in the garage just in case the wife gets mad, and totally get on that program. LOL

HE HE HE!!! I don't know what to tell you. It sounds as if you are doing everything right.
It all falls down to diet and exercise. You need 11/2 - 2 grams of protein per pound of body weight when off cycle and 2-1/2 grams per pound of body weight when on cycle. make sure it is clean protein. don't go but some cheap stuff at the local grocery store. get some met-Rx or muscle tech and eat fish, eggs chicken and meat. Other than that It sounds as if you are doing the right exercises. just try to get yourself a good pump going and if you are eating right your muscles will grow. Sorry I don't know what else to tell you. good luck

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## ScotchGuard

I've been working hard at the shoulder rehab. It stinks to injure the shoulder at such a critical part of the cycle. I only have two and a half weeks before I stop the sus and start waiting to start PCT.I've modified my workout so I'm doing heavy legs and light upper body. I've really concentrated on my abs and lower back. 

Today was leg day. Squats 135lbs x 10reps x 4sets for warmup. 225lbs x 10reps x 2sets, 275lbs x 10reps x 4sets. Leg press using 1 leg 6plates (total) x 10reps x 4sets. leg extensions 120lbs x 20reps x 4 sets.

Abs - situps with 25lb plate behind the head. 20reps x 5sets. After the 5th set my abs are TOTALLY tight. I've never worked my abs so hard. It's hard to push the abs so hard when my legs are gone.

My shoulder rehab is going well. Spend about 30minutes in the morning doing rotator exercises and shoulder stretching. Just abut twe weekd now and my shoulder feels 100% better. Still some discomfort but the rehab seems to working well. I will start circuit training for the upper body starting tomorrow.

The acne's still the but subsiding. I seem to feel a little more joint pain now.

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## ScotchGuard

I had to really cut back on the training because of my shoulder. But I've been working light weight and haven't lost much. I'm currently 200lbs, down 5lbs from when I was doing 4 weeks DBOL . I've also not been eating very clean. The picture's a little grainy but I'm still pretty lean. I think it's the HGH and IGF that's keeping me lean. My lower body strength is still good and I will work my upper body back to strength in the next two week. The acne's under control with 10% benzyl peroxide soap. There is one or two new one that pop up in a week but rest are healing.

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## kaju

your pics are looking really good.! when you finish your cycle you may need to go to a doctor and let him do what he needs. or just lay off and immobilize your shoulder for about a month. I know it would be impossible to not have a shoulder for a month but if the doc has to do surgery you will not have a shoulder for 8-12 weeks. either way it looks bleak. I hope you heal and have good health.


but on the other hand if you did not have the shoulder injury I would suggest get some clenbuterol and take it two weeks on and two weeks off for the anticatabolic effects. it will help you keep your gains and help burn fat as you go through pct. also I would go to your local vitamin store and buy some bulgarian tribulus terestris. take it as directed on the bottle as you go through pct. this will help you keep your gains and help keep your test up . It is not a pct but it does help.

if you do not have to go under the knife. I would ask your doctor to give you another cortizone shot only after you complete your pct. and then I would lay off the shoulder as much as possible. If it hurts DONT DO IT ! ! !

either way it goes good luck

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## ScotchGuard

Thanks kaju, I have my PCT ready and also clen so I'll get some trib. I've been doing rehab once in the am and once in the pm for two weeks. My shoulder is starting to feel real good. Good mobility and reduced pain. It was a combination of torn rotators as well and slightly stretched ligament. Doc says I should be good to go in 3 months. I'm thinking a couple of weeks.  :Smilie:  I'm taking your advice of if it hurts don't do it. I just don't wanna give up the gains of my cycle. While my shoulder's been in rehab I've been concentrating on my abs, core and legs. I'm up to 35 situps with a 25lb plate behind my head or 20 stiups with a 45lb plate behind my head. 

I'm working to measure my gains by my body mass index rather than by my strength gain. My training partner's gone from 205lbs 1 rep max on the bench to 275lbs 3 reps over the past 11 weeks. That guy's getting really strong. He even surprised himself today. That Sustanon go juice is real stuff. I'll do a hydrostatic measure of my body mass index at the end of next week. That's 12 weeks of sustanon and the end of my cycle. Then I'll do another one 7 weeks later when I've finished my PCT. I'm curious to see how much gains I'll hang on to.

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## Indian Muscle

Your photos look impressive especially the 4th pic, I am planning to start my first cycle very soon and you guys can expect some questions from me :-)

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## kaju

> Your photos look impressive especially the 4th pic, I am planning to start my first cycle very soon and you guys can expect some questions from me :-)


we are here to help! Be sure to start your own thread and give us all your stats before you start.

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## teknos

> I forgot to mention about water retention to avoid sodium like the plague.
> On legg building that sounds good. as long as your knees hold up squat and squat and squat. There is no better exercise for building leggs than squats. this is what seperates the men from the boys. Just be careful at our age. when on the juice you will want to push yourself more than our bodies can hold up.
> Pay close attention to what your body is telling you. If you feel one of those twinges that you know isnt right put down that weight fast and regroup. see if it was just some spasm or if you hurt something. if everything is ok start over.
> you may want to throw in some lunges. it is not a muscle building exercise as much as it is a muscle strengthening exercise. as your strength encreases you will be able to do heavier squats in turn will make bigger leggs.





I have started taking 5IU of genotropin daily....
I looked into buying sustanon .

Im not sure how much sustanon to take and in which cycle.

pls advise me.

my e-mail = [email protected] :7up:

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