# STEROIDS FORUM > IGF-1 LR3, HGH, and INSULIN QUESTIONS >  IGF-1 R3 Use/Structure....

## dIeSeL_225

Heres a real good post that I found over at Musclechemistry that was posted by Proud13 He really know his sh*t about IGF, so if your planning on trying IGF this post is really helpful.

Hopefully this will help you guys out. I'll give some about my background first. 

I've reviewed and compiled IGF-1R3 research for over 2 years now. I've recently been brought on to a university's research program which is trying to understand IGF effects more thoroughly and decide if it could help in disorders or injuries involving spinal, brain and nerve tissues. I've used IGF-R3 3x over the past year with the highest dosage being about 140mcg a day. The longest I ever went while still seeing results was about 4 wks. 

Now here we go. IGF-1R3 is very unstable in powder or liquid form. It also needs to be put into an acidic environment to be usable. That means it "could" be mixed with anything from Kool-Aid to Benzol Alcohol (the latter many lemmings have been using), but the problem is it will degrade at an exponential rate due to lack of acidity. The reason labs pnly use Hcl is because it is going into petri dishes or a cute little mouse and they want it to be as potent as possible so their able to record dosages more accurately without guessing on degradation of the IGF. Benzoyl Alcohol has a lower acidity than that of sterile water so guess what...it will degrade and it's hard to mix up so have fun with your now weakend pain in the ass to inject IGF. It should also be kept at 4 degrees celcius and the refrigerator is as good a place as any but I would recommend the freezer once mixed. 

Usage should be limited to 4 wks on and 4-6 wks off. The reason IGF starts to show no results around the 4 wk point is most likely because of receptor downgrade or the body producing some type of antibody to balance out the excess IGF. The time off should allow the body to return back to normal much like that when doing PCT after an AAS cycle for homestasis to be reached but the PCT is uncharted territory in the realm of IGF usage due to lack of "legal" human studies and understanding. 

Dosages should not ever exceed 100mcg. Remember that 1 International Unit of HGH is equivalent to roughly 4-6 mcg of IGF-1R3. That means a dosage of 100mcg of IGF-1R3 is equal to 16.25-25 I.U.'s of HGH. That is considerably high by anyone's standards and side effects WILL be experienced. The highest dosage I personally ever took was 140mcg (70mcg x am/pm) and I only lasted 3 days before my left set of third molars (aka: wisdom teeth) came through completely. I also experienced swelling of my nasal cavities due to the amazingly recurrent growth of my nasal polyps which I had surgically removed 1.5 years prior. Nasal polyps grow in the sinus cavities and should, under normal growth rates, only have to be surgicall removed about every three years at the earliest. I also was extremely tired and lethargic and only wanted to sleep. Even when I took an ECA stack before working out I would just yawn my way through workouts and had to promise myself to hit it harder next time which was discoouraging. I simply wanted to know what would happen so there is no reason for anyone else to waste their time or money. 

I would STRONGLY recommend dosages in the range of 40-80mcg a day of IGF divided between morning and evening injections. Remember IGF-1R3 is coupled with IGFBP-3 (IGF binding protein 3) which extends the half life to from about 6 minutes with normal IGF-1 to 8-12 hours with IGF-1R3 so only two injections are actually needed in a 24 hour period. If you're using over 80 or even 100mcg a day you can compare that to taking 10,000mg of a testosterone which would show results but a large amount of unwanted side effects too. You wouldn't shoot a bumble bee with a 12 guage so use what you need to get the job done in a comfortable and effective manner when it comes to IGF. 

For those that are wondering what exactly IGFBP-3 is or would like to extend the life of their IGF-1 release via the liver with the use of exogenous HGH injections here is some quick info. Do not take Cynomel T3 because it increases the body's IGFBP-3 and this binds to the IGF changing it's shape so that it will not fit into IGF receptors. 

To activate IGF-1R3...Since it needs to be in an acidic environment I would use something as simple as acetic acid which is vinegar. Use Distilled Vinegar at a rate of about 1:50 or sterile water or Bacteriostatic water. Run the vinegar through a Whatman filter just to be safe and keep purity standards high. Here is an example of how to convert 1mg (1,000 mcg) of IGF-1R3. This will give you an easily measured way of using it. You have 1,000mcg of IGF so mix it up with 5mls of liquid. Remember the 1:50 ratio? You're going to first put 10 IU's or 1/10 ml of your now filtered, distilled vinegar to react the IGF, then put in the reamining 490 IU's or 4.9 ml's of BaW in. You'll have a mixture of 1,000mcg dissolved into 5ml's of acetic-BaW. Each ml is 200mcg of IGF-1R3. I would recommend putting each ml into an individual vial. That way you can leave the remaining vials in the freezer to ensure stability. Put the one vial in the refrigerator and take what ever dosage you need. For instance if you are using 40mcg a day take out 20mcg in the am/pm which would amount to 10 IU's since each (1) I.U is equivalent to 2mcg. 

I don't care if people disbelieve me on any of this. I have nothing to gain but enjoyment of knowing I have helped people to save money while getting HUGE. If you want to disagree with me I'll happily provide links to studies when possible. 

By the way...I will be testing something that has been shown to increase in the presence of IGF but this new protein has only been isolated by one laboratory that I know so obtaining it may a problem. This protein, I will not give the name of right now, has been shown in studies to cause localized muscle growth and only in skeletal muscle tissue. That means no risk of GI (smooth muscle) or heart (cardiac muscle) growth. This will prove much more valuable than IGF and I will hopefully be using it this coming year. I will also be testing something called Agrcrp30 which causes the body to use adipose tissue as a source of energy in muscle tissue. I'll post the results when it comes available.

Manufacturers directions.....

Reconstition of the Peptide:
Long R3 IGF-1 is supplied lyophilized in a glass vial in an atmosphere of nitrogen at a slight vacuum (-25kPa). Care should be taken to equilibrate this slightly negative pressure when opening the vial and reconstituting the peptide to avoid losses. An air-filled syringe may be introduced through the bung to equalize the pressure before opening. Peptides in the lyophilized state should be stored at 2-4C and are stale for at least 3 years. 

I.1 Remove the metal cap from the glass vial and introduce an air-filled 2ml syringe through the bung to equalize. 

I.2 Add sufficient 10mM HCl solution to the peptide vial to achieve a peptide concentration of 1mg/ml. 

Note that if the peptide vial purchased contains less than 1mg, reconstitute the peptide in 10mM HCl to achieve a stock concentration of 0.1 mg/ml. Addition of a carrier protein such as bovine serum albumin at a concentration of 0.1 - 1mg/ml should be added to prevent the loss of peptide activity due to non-specific absorption to glass and other surfaces. 

I.3 Mix thoroughly to ensure all peptide dissolved in solution. 

I.4 The resulting stock solution can be stored for at least 3 months at -20C or -80C. Longer term stability tests are continuing and extended stability is expected to be demonstrated.

Here is some info. 
Recombinant Human LongTM R3 IGF-I
(Media Grade)

Catalog No: XXXXXXXX
Size: 5 mg

Description:
XXXXXXX scientists have produced Media Grade human LongTM R3 IGF-I to provide an inexpensive yet high quality
potent IGF-I analog for use as a growth factor supplement for serum-free or reduced-serum culture media. XXXXXXX
scientists have engineered this analog with the express purpose of increasing the biological activity of the IGF-I
molecule. LongTM R3 IGF-I is significantly more potent than human IGF-I in vitro. The enhanced potency is due to
decreased binding of LongTM R3 IGF-I to IGF binding proteins which normally inhibit the biological actions of IGFs.

Source:
Produced recombinantly in E.coli

Purity:
>95 % (by N-terminal sequence analysis)
Molecular Weight:
9111 daltons – confirmed by Mass Spectrometry

N-terminal sequence analysis:
18 residues > 95 % single sequence

Biological Activity:
Type 1 IGF receptor binding assay: ED50 > 15 ng/ml
IGF binding protein assay: ED50 >200 ng/ml
Stimulation of protein synthesis in rat L6 myoblasts: ED50 < 10 ng/ml

Endotoxin: < 0.1 EU/µg

State and Appearance:
Lyophilized white powder
Dried from 0.1 M acetic acid and stored under nitrogen at a slight vacuum

Storage/Stability: At least 2 years at 2 - 4°C (lyophilized)

HPLC Analysis:
Reverse-phase, C4 0.46 cm x 25 cm column. Linear gradient 0-80% acetonitrile in H2O, 0.1% trifluoroacetic acid.

References:
Francis G.L. et al. (1992) J. Mol. Endocrinol. 8, 213-223
Tomas F.M. et al. (1993) J. Endocrinol. 137, 413-421

Long is a trade mark owned by XXXXXXX Limited. LongTMR3IGF-I is covered by the following patents assigned to
XXXXXXX: US patent 5,330,971; European patent 429,586; Japanese patent 2,682,738; Australian patent 633,099; Canadian
patent 2,033,176;

NOT FOR HUMAN USE. FOR RESEARCH USE ONLY. NOT FOR DIAGNOSTIC OR THERAPEUTIC PROCEDURES
___________________
the proud

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## L.A.

I disagree with proud13 really knowing his sh*t about igf. Unless you meant he really knows sh*t?

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## Harvey Balboner

i didn't finish the whole article yet, but have to agree with LA, this guy is way off base on mixing it in BA

now LA is a guy who knows his stuff when it comes to IGF

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## Swellin

This topic has the most disinformation floating around of anything I have seen in some time. I would like to find a big write-up from somebidy I trust!

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## einstein1905

I've posted before that there have been papers documenting the best solvent to reconstitute/ preserve IGF-1 is a BA with somewhere around 100 mM of mannitol to stabilize tertiary structure. Activity was highest in this solution. Most suppliers (chemical grade) suggest 10mM HCl or acetic acid. Vinegar is 5% acetic acid. I'm not going to do the math, but a 1:50 (acetic acid:BW) should provide a pH somewhere around a 10mM HCl solution. I get the feeling he knows something just by his mentioning resuspending in 5 mLs and aliquoting into 5 vials, 4 of which remain frozen to maximize preservation.
The one thing that is grossly untrue is mentioning antibodies will be made against IGF-1 due to high levels of IGF-1 for an extended period. Antibodies aren't used by the body in this way. Antibodies, if they'll be produced against LR3 at all, will be present after the first couple of shots or not at all. I highly doubt that the LR3 form of IGF-1 is going to be immunogenic, since it is so similar to IGF-1 and regions of IGFBP3.

p.s. I have a pdf of one paper that shows activity of IGF-1 in different solvents. If someone wants me to email it, let me know.

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## proud13

Einstein1905,
I respect your view on antibodies especially because of our discussion and never ending thread on MC. However, I should have, if I didn't in the post, state that is has been "theorized" that antibodies are formed. However, it is true that for some unknown reason after @ 30 days the body no longer responds to exogenous Long IGF-1 R3. In contrast if you were to be able afford the Des (1,3) IGF or Arg[3] IGF then you could use it continuosly without stopping and still see effects. Also, I would like to see the paperwork regarding the PDF on IGF-1 in different solvents but if they are not tested over a certain time period (basically forming a degradation rate for each solvent) then the information would be useless b/c the one thing of importance with IGF is degradation. To my knowledge no such test has been done at this time nor on BA esp. since no lab would ever reconstitute it with that, therefore no purpose to test it as such. In regards to the ratio of the acetic acid....I would like to point out that getting hCL is not that easy therefore acetic acid (aka vinegar=found at any grocery store) could be substituted and would help with the acidity of the IGF. About the aliguoting IGF...yes it is a good idea to put what you are not currently using in the freezer to make the degradation the slowest however rather than putting 5mg into 5 bottles you could also put it into many, many (however many you want) insulin syringes and store them in the freezer thereby not having to freeze/thaw the IGF or even worse let the IGF (1mg) be put in the fridge while using it over 30 days. Of course this measure is extreme but not at all complicated to do. 

For instance.....let's say you have 1mg of IGF-1R3 and you put it into the (proud13) solution (lol) but you want to have it easy to measure. Well let's just say you put the 1mg (1,000mcg same thing) into 5ml's of the solution (reconstituted). You would now have a solution of 1,000mcg = 5ml's or 200mcg = 1ml......now let's say you want to take IGF at a dosage of 40mcg (20am/20pm) per day for 25 days which would use up exactly 1mg or 1,000mcg. Anyway, since 1ml (or 100 I.U's same thing) is 200mcg then each 1 I.U on the slin pin is the same as 2 mcg of IGF. If you wanted to take your 20mcg in the am you would need exactly 10 IU's pulled into the slin pin right? Are you following this logic? Then, if that is the case you could easily load 50 slin pins with 20mcg each (suck up 10 IU's of the reconstituted mix) and pull one pin each am and pm out of your freezer so nothing is going through freeze/thaw cycles and/or being needlessly taken out of the freezer where it is the safest in regards to degradation. At day 25. BAM, you're done with your 1mg and now you can take a 4-6 wk break before beggining again to get the same results!!

Diesel 225, 
Thank you for pointing this out to me. I'm glad to be back over here on AR it looks good and it looks like I have my work set out for me already. Like I told you in PM diesel I will start of with facts and reasoning but if need be it may get UGLY with these lemmings who use BA "because that is what they heard and only know". 

Everyone else who doubts the facts on BA, 
Hold on to your seats b/c I'm going to take you on an intellectual ride. I know it sucks to learn that buying IGF in BA is not only stupid but detrimental to IGF but you should know so you can save your money. 

In my next posts I will post the manufacturer's information regarding IGF properties, structure and reconstitution along with rate of degradation. Please if you doubt my facts or opinions do so wisely. I don't like smart asses and I don't like having to insult people when I'm simply relaying facts about usage and what works best. If you don't believe me then go ahead it is your dime not mine. Knowledge is power and money so take that as you may.

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## proud13

Reconstition of the Peptide:
Long R3 IGF-1 is supplied lyophilized in a glass vial in an atmosphere of nitrogen at a slight vacuum (-25kPa). Care should be taken to equilibrate this slightly negative pressure when opening the vial and reconstituting the peptide to avoid losses. An air-filled syringe may be introduced through the bung to equalize the pressure before opening. Peptides in the lyophilized state should be stored at 2-4C and are stale for at least 3 years. 

I.1 Remove the metal cap from the glass vial and introduce an air-filled 2ml syringe through the bung to equalize. 

I.2 Add sufficient 10mM HCl solution to the peptide vial to achieve a peptide concentration of 1mg/ml. 

Note that if the peptide vial purchased contains less than 1mg, reconstitute the peptide in 10mM HCl to achieve a stock concentration of 0.1 mg/ml. Addition of a carrier protein such as bovine serum albumin at a concentration of 0.1 - 1mg/ml should be added to prevent the loss of peptide activity due to non-specific absorption to glass and other surfaces. 

I.3 Mix thoroughly to ensure all peptide dissolved in solution. 

I.4 The resulting stock solution can be stored for at least 3 months at -20C or -80C. Longer term stability tests are continuing and extended stability is expected to be demonstrated.

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## proud13

Recombinant Human LongTM R3 IGF-I
(Media Grade)

Catalog No: XXXXXXXX
Size: 5 mg

Description:
XXXXXXX scientists have produced Media Grade human LongTM R3 IGF-I to provide an inexpensive yet high quality
potent IGF-I analog for use as a growth factor supplement for serum-free or reduced-serum culture media. XXXXXXX
scientists have engineered this analog with the express purpose of increasing the biological activity of the IGF-I
molecule. LongTM R3 IGF-I is significantly more potent than human IGF-I in vitro. The enhanced potency is due to
decreased binding of LongTM R3 IGF-I to IGF binding proteins which normally inhibit the biological actions of IGFs.

Source:
Produced recombinantly in E.coli

Purity:
>95 % (by N-terminal sequence analysis)
Molecular Weight:
9111 daltons  confirmed by Mass Spectrometry

N-terminal sequence analysis:
18 residues > 95 % single sequence

Biological Activity:
Type 1 IGF receptor binding assay: ED50 > 15 ng/ml
IGF binding protein assay: ED50 >200 ng/ml
Stimulation of protein synthesis in rat L6 myoblasts: ED50 < 10 ng/ml

Endotoxin: < 0.1 EU/µg

State and Appearance:
Lyophilized white powder
Dried from 0.1 M acetic acid and stored under nitrogen at a slight vacuum

Storage/Stability: At least 2 years at 2 - 4°C (lyophilized)

HPLC Analysis:
Reverse-phase, C4 0.46 cm x 25 cm column. Linear gradient 0-80% acetonitrile in H2O, 0.1% trifluoroacetic acid.

References:
Francis G.L. et al. (1992) J. Mol. Endocrinol. 8, 213-223
Tomas F.M. et al. (1993) J. Endocrinol. 137, 413-421

Long is a trade mark owned by XXXXXXX Limited. LongTMR3IGF-I is covered by the following patents assigned to
XXXXXXX: US patent 5,330,971; European patent 429,586; Japanese patent 2,682,738; Australian patent 633,099; Canadian
patent 2,033,176;

NOT FOR HUMAN USE. FOR RESEARCH USE ONLY. NOT FOR DIAGNOSTIC OR THERAPEUTIC PROCEDURES.


I'M SURE SOME OF YOU KNOW THE NAME OF THE COMPANY THAT WAS XXXX'D OUT BUT IF YOU'RE SMART YOU WON'T GO TALKING ABOUT IT ON THE BOARDS IN A USUAL MANNER THAT IS HOW TIGHTER RESTRAINTS ARE PUT ON THINGS THAT ARE CURRENTLY NOT SCHEDULED OR CONTROLLED. BE WISE....

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## proud13

Here is info on BA with the pH near the bottom. Also look at the toxicities to things like skin, etc. By the way BA is bad with almost caustic with plastic and other substances so enjoy when eats away your plastic vials with IGF and you're injecting that crap into your BF or IM, better yet. Also, you can't freeze alcohol so good luck trying to freeze your IGF.....did I mention that IGF can't be in an aqueous environment without degrading. Well if I didn't maybe you can read it under the manufacturer's specs. 

The reason you people are getting IGF-1 R3 in BA is b/c the people who sell it (labcorp, [used to at least] LR, cybercorp, etc) buy it in large amounts and it is so unstable that it can not just be separated while in powder form (by mg) and then rebottled for sale. Instead they have to put it into solution and they are going by how people believe it works (like those of you who attacked me saying I don't know ****) and then dividing their now reconstituted bulk product into individual 1mg bottles to sell to make a killer profit. 

Did you know there are only two legal distributors of Gropep IGF in the US? Well that's true and you can call Gropep yourself if you'd like I can give you the number since I've spoken with their pres. Stephen Harding in Australia this week and he told me about the litigation they are building against these companies who are reselling their IGF-1 R3 to whcih Gropep owns the Intellectual Property Rights and Patents on. Therefore they can not make it or legally distribute IGF-1 R3 without Gropep's contractual agreement and permission. Otherwise, Gropep could be undersold b/c every idiot would buy it in bulk (for cheap at around $100 or less per mg) from Gropep then resell it for about $200-400/mg which is cheaper than what Gropep sells it for. 

By the way Gropep doesn't like dealing with unauthorized individuals so good luck if you want to try and get it from them. They deal only with researchers, labs, redistributors (under contract), institutions and experimental uses. They will also require a Federal Tax ID # just to do biz with you. 

Then again what would I know. I'm just BS'g you all about the BA b/c I make and sell vinegar and will make a fortune off of all of you...muhuhaha!!!

http://www.intox.org/databank/docume...lal/cie718.htm

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## proud13

Here is a PDF I'm sure you'll like and it's about rehydrating (although) IGF-II in acetic acid....pretty funny similar to the way I've proposed almost a year ago to people who didn't believe me then and now. It also states the degradation if in aqueous form...lol

http://www.upstate.com/img/coa/01-142-15906.pdf

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## einstein1905

> Here is info on BA with the pH near the bottom. Also look at the toxicities to things like skin, etc. 
> 
> http://www.intox.org/databank/docum...ylal/cie718.htm


Link doesn't work for me.
The PDF of the paper showing tertiary structure being best preserved in BA with mannitol is on my home PC. I'll email it to you when I get back to it.
I know most all of the mainstream suppliers of IGF-1 LR3 (Sigma, etc) give the very same reconstitution and storage info you posted, but that's because it comes from their source, the patent holder. If they've done a study testing 10mM HCl vs BA/mannitol, I'd like to see it, but I doubt it's been done. That's why everyone's suggestion as to which solvent is "best" is limited by the solvents that they've tested. I don't know which is best...neither do they. They know which is best based on those they've tested. i respect that, as long as it's presented that way.

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## proud13

Okay sounds good Einstein....btw, I tried to edit the post and fix the link. Try it now....if you want my addy it's...XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

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## JohnnyB

This info is confusing, the first post is talking about IGF-1R3, the link poster is about IGF-2. How does this apply to LR3 IGF-1? I though they all had different stuctures.

JohnnyB

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## einstein1905

> This info is confusing, the first post is talking about IGF-1R3, the link poster is about IGF-2. How does this apply to LR3 IGF-1? I though they all had different stuctures.
> 
> JohnnyB


All of the IGF's, I'm pretty sure (IGF-II is anyway), are splice variants of the IGF gene. Their structures will be very similar, so their properties in solvent should be very similar.

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## JohnnyB

> All of the IGF's, I'm pretty sure (IGF-II is anyway), are splice variants of the IGF gene. Their structures will be very similar, so their properties in solvent should be very similar.


I thought IGF-1 was unstable in solution that's why LR3 IGF-1 is better for us because it's not as sensitive.

Here a pdf that should be interisting. http://www.jrhbiosciences.com/pdf/p85580.pdf

JohnnyB

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## einstein1905

> I thought IGF-1 was unstable in solution that's why LR3 IGF-1 is better for us because it's not as sensitive.
> 
> Here a pdf that should be interisting. http://www.jrhbiosciences.com/pdf/p85580.pdf
> 
> JohnnyB


The LR3 form is better for our purposes because it is more stable, has a higher affinity for IGF-1 receptors, and probably the most important, it has a portion of an IGF binding protein, hence "long". Having part of the IGFBP renders it unsusceptible to being bound by IGF binding proteins in vivo.

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## JohnnyB

OK I'm learning more about this, there is so much different info out there. What do you think of the pdf I posted?

JohnnyB

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## einstein1905

> OK I'm learning more about this, there is so much different info out there. What do you think of the pdf I posted?
> 
> JohnnyB


I think pretty much all of the mainstream research supply providers (those that supply academic institutions or research facilities) all will have the same reconstitution/storage guidelines, which come directly from the patent holder. Unless a company is willing to explore better solvent options, I think these guidelines will be the norm. It does say something to me though....if these recommendations haven't changed, it means to me that researchers using IGF-1 reconstituted and stored in this manner are having success this way. it doesn't mean there aren't better options. It also doesn't mean that there ARE better options. However, people using it may be getting results, but they have no way of comparing IGF reconstituted in any other manner.
You also can't argue with the results of the many people that have used IGF-1 in BA and have raved about their results. Too much of that to be a placebo effect. I may try both ways next time. I was going to use 3 mgs total over the course of a 22 week cycle. I was going to hit one IGF-1 burst early at 60-80 mcgs/day for ~20 days...then another towards the end at the same doses. It won't be a perfect comparison, as my cycle will have changed also, but it may tell me something. I'll use it reconstituted in 10mM HCl first.

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## proud13

Einstein,
Granted the PDF may show that the structure of the IGF in BA/mannitol is preserved or at least put into reconstitution but unless the paper (lab tests) were done over time like with the manufacturer has done then it is a risk not worth trying and given the facts on BA and the price of IGF it is not something I would risk. 

Think of it this way if you add milk to IGF it won't destroy it (most likely b/c I'm guessing) but b/c it isn't acidic it will not preserve or maintain the structure of the IGF as well as what has been proven. We aren't disagreeing I think we understand each other's sides but we are looking at the BA at slightly different angles which is good.

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## proud13

Now the problem with IGF is that some proteolytic enzymes will break down the
>IGF binding proteins and thus this causes a down regulation in IGF's
>life span.

>Adding insulin into the stack inhibits these proteolytic enyzymes and thus
>keep IGF-1 levels increased and active in your body giving yourself
>better growth potential.

IGF binding proteins _inhibit_ the activities of IGF. This is reviewed in:

McCusker RH, Clemmons DR. 1992. The insulin-like growth factor binding proteins: structure and biological functions. In: The Insulin-Like Growth Factors (Ed. P. Schofield), Oxford Univ Press, p. 110-150.

Here are some facts: 


Half-life of free IGF-1 in blood: < 10 minutes
Half-life of IGF-1 bound to IGFBP1: 10 minutes
Half-life of IGF-1 bound to IGFBP2: 10 minutes
Half-life of IGF-1 bound to IGFBP3: > 6 hours, when bound as
part of an IGF1/IGFBP3/
acid-labile protein
complex.

IGFBP3 has a molecular weight of 39,000 to 43,000, and the acid-labile protein to which it typically binds has a Mw of 100,000 to 110,000, so the complex has a Mw of about 150,000. What this means is that once bound to IGFBP3, the IGF1 can never escape the vascular system until it is broken down, because it is too big.
So it is true that the binding proteins "extend the life" of IGF1 in the body, but it is not (necessarily) true that the binding proteins extend the usefulness of IGF1. In fact, they generally inhibit IGF1.

To return to the question of the anabolic role of insulin, if you accept what Jerome (MDGADPC) has been saying about anabolic steroids being both catabolic and anti-catabolic as well as anabolic, then the synergistic effect of insulin would make sense, especially since AS's enhance protein synthesis, a quality which insulin lacks. There are a number of substances which have multiple actions like this - thyroid hormones being another example. 

HENCE THE NAME IGF-1 R3 (IT IS IGFBP-3 THAT PROLONGS THE LIFE AND DOESN'T ALLOW ACCES BY THE OTHER IGFBP'S WHICH ARE MUCH SHORTER LIVED) WHEN THIS IS DONE IT ALLOWS THE BODY A BETTER ABILITY TO HAVE A CHANCE AT (IT'S) IGF-1 RECEPTORS ATTACHING TO IT.

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## proud13

If You'll Notice The 1/2 Life Of Igf-1 Free In The Bloodstream It Is Very Short Lived. Just Ask Any Old Pro Who Used To Have To Inject The Stuff 6 Times A Day B/c It Was Only Active For @ 10 Minutes. Igf-1 Is Very Much Like Pgf-2 In That It Needs To Be Used Often To See Results Therefore Igf-1r3 Was Developed. Now If You're Smart Then You Could Figure Out A Way To Lengthen Pgf-2 Life Which Is Extremely Anabolic For @ 6 Minutes. 

In Fact I'll Look Into It In My Spare Time. However, If That ****en Pain In The Stomach Along With The Volcano-****s Were To Last The Entire Time The Pgf-2 Were Active And Causing Extreme Anabolic Gains Then I'd Surely Pass. That Is Some Painful And Annoying **** But Awesome Results Without A Doubt. I've Heard Oxytocin Affects It Somehow But I've Never Researched It.

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## einstein1905

> HENCE THE NAME IGF-1 R3 (IT IS IGFBP-3 THAT PROLONGS THE LIFE AND DOESN'T ALLOW ACCES BY THE OTHER IGFBP'S WHICH ARE MUCH SHORTER LIVED) WHEN THIS IS DONE IT ALLOWS THE BODY A BETTER ABILITY TO HAVE A CHANCE AT (IT'S) IGF-1 RECEPTORS ATTACHING TO IT.


Just a technical note...the "R3" has nothing to do with IGFBP-3. It refers to the arginine for glutamine substitution at the 3rd amino acid position at the N terminus. The "L" or "long" refers to the synthetic analog of a portion of an IGFBP that is added to the sequence of IGF-1, which mimics the actions of an IGFBP by protecting IGF-1 and increasing its half life, but also prevents full size IGFBP's from binding it and rendering it inactive. The "L" portion does not interfere with binding to the IGF-1 receptors, so it's the best of both worlds. It's still going to work back into the negative feedback loop and prevent release of 
GHRH--->GH--->endogenous IGF-1, but only temporarily. Well worth the trade off though.

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## proud13

Depends on how you look at "temporarily" esp. when the IGF-1 R3 can remain active for over 6 hours. Yeah it is worth the trade off though.

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## Cycleon

hmmmm interesting discussion

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## Diesel1

well, i had the same questions you guys had about properly recontituting IGF-1 Lr3 in the lyophilized powder form...so i e-mail Dave Palumbo, he e-mailed me back saying that mixing it with bacteriostatic water is the easiest way, and to shoot the same time everyday(preferably post-workout). I know Palumbo knows his **** and always speaks the truth when it comes to gear, so i believe him.
-diesel1

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## einstein1905

> well, i had the same questions you guys had about properly recontituting IGF-1 Lr3 in the lyophilized powder form...so i e-mail Dave Palumbo, he e-mailed me back saying that mixing it with bacteriostatic water is the easiest way, and to shoot the same time everyday(preferably post-workout). I know Palumbo knows his **** and always speaks the truth when it comes to gear, so i believe him.
> -diesel1


No offense...he's a respected name and has lots of good info, but when and where did he conduct the studies to confirm this?
The "fragility" of IGF-1 has been blown way out of proportion, but optimizing pH, at the very least, is something you want to do, being that you'll probably be keeping your IGF-1 in this environment for 20 days or more. BA also allows you to keep it at lower temps than water or 10mMHCl, which will greatly diminish any alleged degradation.

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## Diesel1

bacteriostatic water does contain something like 0.9% BA, doesn't it???

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## einstein1905

> bacteriostatic water does contain something like 0.9% BA, doesn't it???


Yes, but that's not nearly enough BA to get the pH anywhere near straight BA or 10mM HCl, nor is it a high enough % to allow it to be kept in the freezer w/o freezing (I am pretty sure of this). I did reread what you said though....you said he claimed bac water was the "easiest way", and he's probably right...no one likes the sting of BA, but whether or not it's the best way is another story. In the end, it may not even be significant, but there isn't enough information for anyone to claim what's best at this point.

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## Diesel1

i hear ya, it might not be the best way to do it, especially if it was being used in a actual scientific study, not being used on humans and in lower doses...but there must not be a significant differance after all, b/c i'm 100% positive Palumbo has used IGF-1 Lr3 many times and is speaking from experience...also in his IGF-1 Lr3 arcticle in MD magazine, he did say how he did studies with individuals studing the effects of doses and said 20 mcg/day is enough to keep making gains for 4 weeks, said high doses will end up causes sides, mainly excess igf-1 will spread to extermities(hands, feet, etc.), and loose effectivness very quickly too
-diesel1

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## einstein1905

> i hear ya, it might not be the best way to do it, especially if it was being used in a actual scientific study, not being used on humans and in lower doses...but there must not be a significant differance after all, b/c i'm 100% positive Palumbo has used IGF-1 Lr3 many times and is speaking from experience...also in his IGF-1 Lr3 arcticle in MD magazine, he did say how he did studies with individuals studing the effects of doses and said 20 mcg/day is enough to keep making gains for 4 weeks, said high doses will end up causes sides, mainly excess igf-1 will spread to extermities(hands, feet, etc.), and loose effectivness very quickly too
> -diesel1


Yeah, I saw his article on it. He also claimed that IGF receptors are in the highest concentrations in the extremeties....intestinal epithelia has the highest concentration of IGF receptors. You'll "feel" the effects in the distal extremeties more because even the slightest growth of connective tissue (as evidenced by the CTS-like effects in the hands when using IGF-1 or GH) can easily cause minute shifts in tarsals and carpals that are magnified by the very slight effects on the intricate/extensive nervous tissue in these regions.

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## JohnnyB

I'm using LR3 IGF-1 at 20mcg post w/o and it's working fine. I will up it on the next one though.

JohnnyB

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## Cycleon

this argument ever get settled? I am thinking to go with sterilized diluted vinegar - I can get the HCL buffer solution but they hit me with shipping and I am eager to get going

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## jbigdog69

> this argument ever get settled? I am thinking to go with sterilized diluted vinegar - I can get the HCL buffer solution but they hit me with shipping and I am eager to get going


  :Welcome:

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## dirtybrit55

didnt palumbo get busted for fake HGH, so does he really know his hsit?

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## einstein1905

I'll be doing a comparison with BA, HCl, and 100mM acetic acid (diluted, sterile white vinegar), but I'll most likely stay with BA. One of the main reasons manufacturers recommend HCl and acetic acid over BA is because LR3 is primarily used in cell culture, and slight increases in Cl- and acetate ions won't alter physiology to any appreciable degree. BA, on the other hand, will result in something not normally found in culure media and could skew assay results. It's not so much that HCl is the best solvent, but it's the best for practical reasons for LR3's intended use. Both the acetic acid and HCl are going to have some bite to it, even more so than BA.

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## Bigun

I had terrible trouble when mixing my Gensci IGF with BA, it came out all thick and there was a lot of residue on the inside of the vial so I went back to using BW

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## einstein1905

> I had terrible trouble when mixing my Gensci IGF with BA, it came out all thick and there was a lot of residue on the inside of the vial so I went back to using BW


I know I asked before, but how much BA did you use per 100mcg of LR3? How long did you let it sit before using it?

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## Bigun

Hmm I cant remember to be honest with you Einstein, probably 1ml per 10iu vial. I do remember trying to add more and more near the end to try and get the remainder of the lumps out to no avail. I did leave the mix in there for a while before trying to use it.

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## jbigdog69

Anyone mixed Gropep yet???

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## jbigdog69

bump

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## zaarel

I have seen this discussion on countless boards and I just have to ask. If the acetic acid is a better alternative are there any research companies out there selling it in that? If not why not?

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## einstein1905

> I have seen this discussion on countless boards and I just have to ask. If the acetic acid is a better alternative are there any research companies out there selling it in that? If not why not?


Because it's not necessarily a better alternative in the context of our purposes.....it is a better alternative for in vitro assays though

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## asiandynamo

if you put the remaining 4 vials in the freezer which is constituted in BW will it not freeze in the freezer destroying the igf-1?

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## IwannaBeBig

"laymens terms grizzwald, none of that inside buisness bull**** jargin nobody understands." ----if you reconstitute igf-1 w/bw, i'm i guessing that means bacterial water, in the freezer it will freeze. ok makes sense. and in ba, bezyl alcohol, it won't freeze. that makes sense to. now to my question, and yes i read this whole thread, some guy i work with said you can just mix it in bw and leave it in you fridge, not the freezer and its good to go, so whats the deal? i don't get it do you freeze what you have left and the end of the 25 days? i'm new to the igf-1 and eager to learn. hopefully i can find more on other threads.
-big

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## IwannaBeBig

alright now i have more of an understanding thank you

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## kickboxtony

So is the stuff on researchchemist.com real or bs? I don't understand how you're supposed to keep it stable if they send it to you in liquid form.

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## DEVLDOG

good thread

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## proud13

Wow it's been sometime since I've been over in these here parts. What up y'all? Glad to see my info was so well liked and discussed. I see some of the people posting replies in this thread were banned. I'm guessing flaming was the cause. Oh well...glad to be back now that I have more time now. See more of you guys on the board soon.

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## baki

could someone kindly give me a 101 guide to igf lr3 please? i recently purchased 2 mg (sold as 1mg units) hopefully from a rep' company and I have been researching different posts regarding the subject- my questions are: how do i mix it? what to mix it with? how to store the remaining product for a 25 day cycle? IM vs. sub-c injection?
I greatly appreciate your help in this matter. Thanks in advance, baki

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