# STEROIDS FORUM > ANABOLIC STEROIDS - QUESTIONS & ANSWERS >  Short burst cycling- explained

## marcus300

Due to the high number of PM's i am getting on this subject i thought i would post this summary what i wrote some time ago regarding short (burst) cycling-

*Short burst cycling explained*- 
One of the best approaches Ive ever used to build muscle tissue is short burst cycling, before i go any further i want to state that short cycling can be implemented to what ever level you are, its not only for the advance Bodybuilder it can be for all stages, its just the amount of gear Mg is adjusted to suit the individual's level. The best part of this thread will be aimed at advanced bodybuilders because of the high dose used with burst cycling but no discussion on dosages will be made on the open board unless it needs to be discussed.

Muscle tissue doesn't grow continuously over long periods of time, weight gain and muscular growth doesn't happen that way. Not in infants, toddlers, teenagers, or even weight trainers. Instead, weight gain seems to come in spurts or surges. It's amazing how you can train hard and eat very well year round yet only seem to make progress in quick little infrequent spurts of growth even with taking all the AAS compounds the body still gets use to whats being taken and builds up tolerance and adapts. If you look back over your cycle history you will notice the growth spurts within the cycles, we don't keep on growing because if we did we would all be 500lbs+. This method can build huge tissue gains in that short growth window if everything is in place.


*Pre -Cycle Primming*- First you must open the growth window and create a very anabolic environment for muscle tissue to grow, muscle receptors will get very excitable and upgrade to except more glucose which will shift the muscle to fat ratio which in turn will create muscle tissue to build very quickly, when this is coupled with a short burst cycle right after a prime the results can be outstanding, some of you will understand this from rebound cycling after a comp, its very similar except the prime isn't as harsh as the pre-cycle comp diet and the prime is only directed at creating and opening the growth window for the cycle, its a pre-cycle prime.(details of primming is in a separate thread).Hgh protocol should be ran during the prime at low dose and kicked up when cycle starts.


*Duration* - Short burst cycling usually last for around 30 days up to 6 weeks, there is no set rule on the length of cycle and normally it can be open ended and stopped when growth slows/stops. You have to listen to the body and adjust, with burst cycling it shouldn't be ran for long periods of time, longer doesn't mean more or better gains.Keep it short and feed the growth window and build the tissue and stop, recover and maintain.

*Dosages*- The dose for a short burst cycle is alot more than you would normally use in a standard length cycle, because of the prime and the body being in a very anabolic environment it can take on board alot more than usual and over loading androgens will fully push the body to grow, it also takes time for the body to adjust to the high level of hormones in relation to sides so before you are experiencing them your off cycle. Over your cycle history you would of tried the heavy dosages and seen the sides come and where its not worth the risk's to muscle gain, this is why its kept to a short period before the body can adjust with sides the cycle is over and growth is completed. Individual dosages are designed off your cycle history, there is no set dose it all depends on what your cycle history looks like, someone who normally uses 500mg per wk will be completely different to the guy who uses 1500mgs per wk when designing short burst cycles, but both will have the benefit of using high amounts what they normally don't run.

*Side effects*- If your looking for the best effective way to run hormones without to much negative feedback staying on for long periods of time probably isn't the best option to take. Ive had far better blood work back from high burst cycles than when Ive ran longer cycles at alot less dosage. There is minimal impact on the HPTA and recovery is far easier than trying to bring back natural production from a long cycle, there is some elevated aggression because of the high amount of androgens but overall this can be channeled into your workouts. PCT should be painless and within normal boundaries of how you recover. Blood pressure in some can be a problem but not serious but needs to be checked throughout the period so aids can be used to combat the problem if needed. Water retention is low but can be elevated if this system is ran for long periods, but if there is a problem normal AI can be used to help this issue and OTC herbal diuretics. Tren user's within this system get bad BW results due to the harshness of the compound but boy does it produce gains but you have to be prepared to have a hard recovery and sides, kinda defeats the object but again, down to the individual.

*Compounds*- Because its a short period of time the normal way would to run short ester's, but you can use long ester's within a short cycle, i know what some of you are thinking but it can be done with great results, because of the androgen overload your simply frontloading long ester's to an amount were it is effective straight from the start, the only problem is you have to drop them out 14 days before the end and swap them with fast ester's so everything is clear for PCT, i know what some are saying sounds pointless but its not, to the BB's who prefer long ester and they respond better to them, remember its designed of your cycle history so if your better with long esters go with them until 14 days from the end and swap to fast ester's, the daily injection and the amount of tissue the body can produce in a short period is amazing, if anyone wants to discuss long ester's with this theory i will but at this moment in time i will stop before i complicate things more. Short ester's and fast acting compounds are used and the exact compounds depends on what your trying to achieve but normally its Test based or what you respond best to, 2 /3 compounds are ran at a time but no need to run loads, keep them limited less is better,Ive even known guys used 1 compound with stunning results. HGH is increased to a high amount when cycle starts just like all the compounds. I did a study once with some BB's and the dosages range alot with all different HGH protocol's which is interesting reading but i can go into that at a later date.

*Maintenance* - Due to the HPTA being shut down or suppressed for a short period of time its far better to get it to respond when the cycle is over, remember being shut down for weeks on end cause's serious issues about recovery and maintenance, shorter shut downs produces easier recovery no matter how much you have pushed in the body,which in turn results in better maintenance which equals keeping more gains. Once you have shut down your HPTA its down and its the period of shutdown what cause's damage, would you rather shut down your HPTA for 14 weeks or 30 days?? or continually shutting down and recovering isn't the other best approach either, depends on the person's goals and what he wants to achieve with BBing, some of my friends who are at a high level use short burst cycling coupled with bridge's because of what they have to compete with on stage and get ready for photo shoots nearly all the time. Recovering from a standard or long cycle it cost muscle tissue while trying to recovery even with all the peptide's chemicals this day and age we still lose tissue, with this theory losing tissue is limited.

*Diet* - After the prime as been implemented correctly, the cycle should be started and this day should line up with the first high carb day after the low day carbs within the prime, calories from then on should be increased to over maintenance, different opinions here to how much, again down to knowing your body and how it responds, many who increase too fast will create huge water retention due to the increase of carbs, some don't and over load can be implemented, if your one of these guys who has water retention when carbs are increased after being depleted then over maintenance should be ran for 1 week ish then, overload should be used, if your not and you don't carry the water from the carbs increase calories well over maintenance and go with growth,also depends on how much of a prime as been ran!! feed the dramatic growth what can occur if you have done the procedure correctly.Over eat, over feed, overload on the first day of the cycle straight after the prime from low carb phase.One last thing and i hope many understand this- diet is 24hr dedication while running the theory.

*Training* - Train to how you grow, best advice here is heavy intense workouts to total failure,HIT style or what ever works for you, you have the answers on how you grow. Intense is the key, stimulation of the whole body to grow, don't waste this time, remember to train how i am recommending is impossible for 10-12 weeks, its to hard and wouldn't last 4 weeks, before a turn around is needed and lay up from the heavy training session, so with this in mind you can mentally focus on this because its only for around 30 days long. Ive used many ways myself but the best for me with this style of cycling was heavy drop sets to failure plus forced, swapped to pre-exhausted drop sets to failure the following next total body workout, then swapped again. Workouts are short but seriously intense but you have the food/chemicals and energy to support this for this short period so don't waste it, Ive seen huge amounts of tissue build from this, myself i created 10lbs of clean tissue in a very short period of time after PCT and maintenance. Everybody's different to how much they build and comes down to if you have primed correctly, designed the perfect stack for you, placed the correct amount of mg's in the blood every day and how well you train to build fresh tissue.


When i was first learnt this method my whole body changed to a serious level,I never went back to the normal way of cycling, it suited me so much and the growth was amazing. Borreson sat me down and explained in detail how this can happen and to this day things have moved forward so much from Paul's day but i always remember him saying "please try it you will be amazed" he was right and it could for you. Look at Dorian what he did straight after a show....he was back in the gym the day after while the other were on vacation, he was using the growth window to create a very anabolic environment for tissue to grow and he used it, thats why in some years he produced some serious muscle tissue gains what has been seen since due to his method and style, many top pro's used this system but its tweaked to suit their individual's needs.

Please note, i am not saying do short burst cycles with little time off and then back on short burst cycle, no i haven't gone into that side of things, all i am doing is explaining the whole theory behind short burst cycling with first hand experience from myself and many bodybuilder's.
__________________

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## Amorphic

bump for a good read

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## ChuckLee

Excellent read.
Any applicative example?

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## marcus300

> Excellent read.
> Any applicative example?


Dosages are worked of the individuals cycles history when we talk about burst cycles, i wouldnt like to openly post dosages just in case newbies think this is the way forward. When we talk about burst dosages they are higher than you would normally use but only for a short period of time, if the prime is done and training/diet is in order huge gains in muscle tissue can be built.

I once did a personal study regarding burst cycles along side HGH and the different protocols used when using GH. The findings helped me design further cycles for clients and help me understand the growth process when primming and going into a burst, myself and some advanced BB's used many doasges........infact my fellow friend Pinn was a subject and he used the most mgs per day than any of the others, i wont go into the study fact by fact but if you use the correct compounds what you recover well from and usually just a good main dose - ie "Testosterone " results can be outstanding and muscle tissue can be built without any major upsets.

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## marcus300

Just notice another thread regarding this subject- opps

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## ecto9

Great read. Did you say you've got another thread on "priming" before starting a cycle?

Please post that link, Thanks.

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## marcus300

> Great read. Did you say you've got another thread on "priming" before starting a cycle?
> 
> Please post that link, Thanks.


Priming before a cycle explained 

Please read the basic ideas around priming, 

You need to work off a basic diet one which your maintaining on, this is the diet what you prime from, its all about confusing the body, Ive found that carb cycling is the best way to prime, it also keeps hold of valuable muscle tissue if its done correctly,

The best way Ive found is 3-5 days low carb 40% less than your maintenance diet then followed by 1 day high carb 15% higher than the maintenance diet, you will have to adjust the low carb days to suit your body but don't go near 7 days low carbs, a common problem with reducing carbs is that over time the metabolic rate can and will begin to adapt, when carbs stays low for an extended period of time usually at the 7 day mark and up, fat cells attempt to hold on by resisting the release of fatty acids, levels of lipoprotien lipase tend to rise and thyroid levels drop, these both effect overall basal metabolism and are part of the starvation response which off sets reductions in energy intake and is very common to muscle wastage, so adjust to your body's response but in my opinion don't go 7 days or more,

The one high carb day should be introduced around 3-5 day mark of low carbs, the high carb day at around day 3-5 this interrupts the starvation response which restores thyroid levels back to normal while also suppressing the fat storing enzyme lipoprotein ( which rises after day 7 of a lower carb intake) which results in no muscle tissue wastage,

Also if you catch this right at when the glycogen levels drop which is around 3-5 day mark and you follow this by the high carb day with an increase of calories even higher than what the body had been use to previous to the reduction, the body responds by increasing thermogenesis which in turn helps the whole process,

Everybody is different but ive got alot of personally logs/reports which show muscle wastage on carb cycling at the 7 day mark and up, the body re-adjusts itself at this stage and holds onto the fat cells while using the precious muscle tissue as energy, which in turn the individual will lose more muscle tissue than stopping short this process at 3-5 day mark of the low carb,

The key is tricking the metabolism into losing fat instead of muscle tissue by rotating carbs but not letting the body trigger the starvation response, also Ive found that before any type of carb cycling you must of establish a basic diet which you have ran for a number of weeks in where the body isn't gaining or losing any size just maintaining what its got, this is very important because this established diet is what you work off so we get the body to respond the best by dropping bf and holding onto muscle tissue,

As you priming your body goes into a environment were muscle tissue can be built very fast, just look how much you put on after a contest, this whole process you take advantage of and put it together with a cycle and hit all comounds hard and fast, an increase in calories is needed everyday of the cycle, you must support the amount of AAS and growth the body wants to grow, as soon as you start the cycle your body is very anabolic so take advantage of this and hit it hard, growth comes on fast, 


Dont set a target weight for the prime, the prime isnt really about weight loss its about priming the body for the intense cycle/training, do the prime as slow as possible the body reacts better if its done this way, make sure you carb cycle of the maintance diet what you have now, confuse the body dont do anything drastic slowly build the enviroment for growth, trust me do this part spot on and the gains are untrue, the body only grows in short bursts this is a natural thing from babys to teenagers, so go with the flow of the body just create the body ready for the growth and very intense training,

Make sure your on a low dose gh throughout the prime, 

slowly confuse the body into burning fat as fuel then restore the gyl store with the 1 day high carb, but this 1 day wont full them up only restore abit so next time you low carb for 3-5 day even more fat will be burnt and the process of creating an anabolic enviroment is getting acheived.

when you start to reduce carbs by 40% for 3-5 days the glycogen stores start to deplete and when muscle glycogen stores are lower a metabolic shift occurs where additional fat is used for fuel which in turn promotes fat loss so after you return back to 1 day high carb intake the extra carbs simply re-store muscles with glycogen, so as long as there is room for more glucose from carbs the carbs must be stored as glycogen, but with only one day higher carbs the store are not fully full so the next time you do 3-5 day lower carbs the stores get even more depleted which even triggers more fat loss but the high day carb is enough to stop the starvation response of the body so no metabolic shift to slow it down,

This overall procedure puts your body into a very anabolic environment for muscle tissue to grow couple this with a cycle and growth is amazing, but i must stress the prime as to be done correctly to take full advantage

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## ecto9

> *The key is tricking the metabolism into losing fat instead of muscle tissue by rotating carbs but not letting the body trigger the starvation response*, also Ive found that before any type of carb cycling you must of establish a basic diet which you have ran for a number of weeks in where the body isn't gaining or losing any size just maintaining what its got, this is very important because this established diet is what you work off so we get the body to respond the best by dropping bf and holding onto muscle tissue,





> *when you start to reduce carbs by 40% for 3-5 days the glycogen stores start to deplete and when muscle glycogen stores are lower a metabolic shift occurs where additional fat is used for fuel which in turn promotes fat loss so after you return back to 1 day high carb intake the extra carbs simply re-store muscles with glycogen,* so as long as there is room for more glucose from carbs the carbs must be stored as glycogen, but with only one day higher carbs the store are not fully full so the next time you do 3-5 day lower carbs the stores get even more depleted which even triggers more fat loss but the high day carb is enough to stop the starvation response of the body so no metabolic shift to slow it down,


I especially like these things you pointed out. I've never heard it put this way before. Carb cycling has been a mystery to me. I do know from the past several months I've lessened water retention and belly fat greatly by cutting my carbs down. Cutting naturally now before Aug. cycle. 

Gonna give this 3-5 cut & 1 on Carb cycling a try. It makes gerat sense.

I also like the part where you stated we need to start from the diet we are at now (over the past few mo.) I've been in that process.

Thanks for all the great insights bro, Peace...

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## marcus300

> I especially like these things you pointed out. I've never heard it put this way before. Carb cycling has been a mystery to me. I do know from the past several months I've lessened water retention and belly fat greatly by cutting my carbs down. Cutting naturally now before Aug. cycle. 
> 
> Gonna give this 3-5 cut & 1 on Carb cycling a try. It makes gerat sense.
> 
> I also like the part where you stated we need to start from the diet we are at now (over the past few mo.) I've been in that process.
> 
> Thanks for all the great insights bro, Peace...


Try it, its a great tool to have and the approach is excellent at opening the growth window for a cycle and will create a very anabolic environment for muscle tissue to grow.

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## Pinnacle

Pretty well written article by TWIN PEAKS on carb cycling


Introduction 


What I am about to present is not a new paradigm, or r*********ary approach to diet. Nor is it the end-all, be-all to dieting; there are many viable approaches. 

This diet is, on the other hand, an easy (relatively speaking) approach to diet that is physiologically and psychologically rewarding. Moreover, it is rather malleable and also forgiving, yet effective. For these reasons, I am astounded that it has not caught on to a greater extent (in some form or another), and played a bigger role in the dieting r*********. 

This is the first installment of a multi-part article. Here, we will briefly discuss my background (as it relates to this diet), its genesis (in the form I present), the basic tenets of the diet, as well as the basic diet structure. We will also discuss, briefly, its psychological benefits, as well as its physiological strengths and underpinnings. Psychology and physiology, as you will see (and as Par Deus has propounded) are inextricably intertwined, in the world of diet and food. Or, "food and mood," as Par is so fond of saying. 

However, this installment will address theory and science only minimally, out of necessity. Not only would this article be way too long, but more importantly, I'd be going well beyond my strengths, and I know my limits. For those seeking a deeper understanding, Dawza, who is far more apt than I in these regards, will provide a more in depth analysis in the final article in this series. 

Also in future installments we will discuss synergistic supplementation, variations based on one's phenotype, tweaks for continued fat loss (should they prove necessary), variations for bulking or a steady recomposition, and other variations for those losing too quickly (we should all have that problem shouldn't we?), those not losing quickly enough, and for those looking for a more manageable "lifestyle" approach. Actually, in its most basic form, as presented here, Carbohydrate Cycling will be a rather quick fat loss plan for most. 


Basic Definitions 


First, let's get some definitions out of the way. This is not a glossary but rather an explanation of a few terms that are often used in a variety of manners. If the definition of a word or term used can be found objectively, I expect that you know it, or you'll look it up, or you don't give a rat's ass. 

"Diet" 
A way of eating. Period. Unlike in common usage, it does not refer to the goal of "weight loss." 

"Cut" or "Cutting" 
A hypo-caloric diet where the goal is to decrease overall body fat, while concomitantly maintaining or even gaining muscle mass. Often, a small amount of muscle loss is expected and acceptable. 

"Mass Phase," "Bulk" or "Bulking" 
A hyper-caloric diet where the goal is to increase overall muscle mass, while concomitantly maintaining or even losing body fat. Some such diets indeed allow for, or even plan on, fat gain, albeit minimal (hopefully). 

"Recomposition" 
Coining a new phrase, Avant Labs style, the concept of a recomposition was previously unheard of. But essentially, it is a slow, yet steady body transformation whereby you seek to both lose body fat and gain lean body mass, concomitantly. Beyond "newbie gains," rapid changes in the extremely obese or with the use of androgens, it is widely believed that a recomposition is highly inefficient, or even impossible. It is not. Utilizing numerous nutrient-partitioning techniques related to training style, and proper supplementation, recomposition can be accomplished rather effectively. 


In The Beginning 


Carbohydrate cycling is something I stumbled on when I trained for my first bodybuilding contest in 1996. It was not something I heard or read about, specifically. While I am certain I did not invent this concept, and others probably had used it in some shape or form, I devised it of my own accord based on the "little" that I knew back then. 

How? Why? Well, I had struggled my whole life with being over-fat. Indeed prior to cutting for the show I was probably at around 20% body fat, and this was "thin" for me. I doubt I had ever been below 15%, and yet I committed to being on stage in posing trunks--in 16 weeks. Why? I had finally accumulated a decent amount of muscle mass, and well, why not. 

I "knew" then that I "needed" to keep my fat content low, and protein high (the quotes reflect that I have a generally different view now, though this certainly is not a high-fat diet). I also "knew" that I needed some carbs, but that my calorie reduction must come from this macronutrient (as I always kept fat low, and wasn't about to reduce protein intake), and I knew I needed (as a genetic endomorph) to keep insulin under control. 

I also knew that I hated calorie restriction, that I never stuck to a diet long term, and that I hated dieting monotony. I also hated (and still hate) counting calories -- I admit it, I am lazy. And despite this, and poor genetics with a high body fat setpoint, I needed to get to sub 5% body fat. 

Oh, for some context, back then I thought Hot Stuff was the bomb -- so except for protein, I didn't use any supplements; the point being, with the exception of a protein powder, no supplements are necessary to make this diet work. On the other hand, supplements have come a long way since the mid to late 90s, and so has my knowledge on this topic. Today, there are many effective products that will contribute to the success of the diet (or the speed at which you will achieve it), depending on your goals, your phenotype, and your wallet, of course. Again, we'll get to this in future installments, but for now, the diet beckons. 

So how could I, with my knowledge, genes, and personality traits, devise a plan that would be effective, and so user-friendly that even I would stick to it long enough that I could stand on stage, practically naked? Oh, and while 16 weeks may seem like a long cut, this time-frame did not allow any weeks to pass where I could simply maintain body fat. There was no margin for error. Nope, I needed to lose a steady 1 ? to 2 pounds of fat per week to attain my goal. 

The answer - at least the one I came up with - was "Carbohydrate Cycling." My plan was that if I cycled my carb intake, I would have some days that were unusually strict. This was not a problem for me (being super-strict for short period of times), especially if I had a reward. Enter, the high carb day, where I allowed myself to eat as much as I wanted. What's the catch? Well, we will get to that soon enough. 

But in the end, I would average out to a low carb intake level sufficient to remain hypocaloric, for the week. Or, at least, that was the plan. So yes, basically this was designed, originally, to meet my psychological needs. Oh, I also thought it a good idea to "keep the body guessing." Though I really didn't know what this meant. I had never heard of a refeed, and especially not of leptin. 

Hell, leptin was just being discovered back then. So many of the positive physiological benefits of cycling carbohydrates were unknown to me then, except that it "kept the body guessing." You see, while knowing very little about biochemistry and physiology, I had the general sense that we bodybuilders were always battling homeostasis. Other than this general belief, I had no idea why in 16 weeks I never got stuck or hit a wall. 


The Concept: Cycling 101 


There are three types of days while on this diet: 

High Carb 
Low Carb 
No Carb Days
Generally, the three days are rotated, or cycled, equally. Again, I will stress that this can, and should, betweaked, based on the individual's goals, geno and pheno-types, and dieting history. Indeed, much of this will be discussed in future installments. Here, we will lay out the basic plan, which is designed for relatively rapid fat loss for most individuals and the one that got me into contest ready condition, twice. 

Carbohydrate manipulation is the key here, but we will back into this by discussing our protein and fat intake, which each remain constant. Bear in mind the multitude of goals and assumptions this diet balances. 


Nuts And Bolts: The Basic Plan 



Generally
This plan is based on eating six times per day. An acceptable alternative is five meals daily, and if you so choose, be sure to keep the daily ratios consistent, as each meal will require more food. 

Protein Consumption
Protein: the easy part. Actually, protein is the foundation of this diet. It is not to be skipped, skimped upon, taken lightly, or otherwise reduced simply because the diet does not focus on it. The significance of protein cannot be overstated, though such details are beyond the scope of this article. We shall not get into the minimum requirements for a bodybuilder, which types of proteins are superior to others, and the numerous other issues that have perplexed the scholars and been debated ad nauseam. 

Suffice it to say, that one gram per pound of bodyweight is the absolute minimum, and there is no maximum on this diet. In other words, at each and every meal, of each and every day, you can feel free to dig in to as much protein as you wish. Though there are some rules. Beyond these rules, and for simplicity's sake, I will assume you are eating a sufficient quantity at each and every meal and leave it at that. 

Assuming you are eating six meals each day, regardless of which type of day, you will eat a minimum of 1/6 of your total daily minimum requirement for protein at each meal. Thus, a 200-pound individual should eat at least 33 grams of protein at each and every meal. If five meals is the necessary course, the same individual should eat a minimum of 40 grams of protein per meal. 

You can eat more, but to overindulge at one meal, does not excuse a deficient amount at another. In other words, do not shortchange your protein consumption at any meal. 

Again, this is the minimum, so if you are still hungry eat up. Of course, like any other macronutrient, too much protein can hinder fat loss or even promote fat gain. This is another instance where I am putting some faith in the body's sense of self-regulation. For the few of you who eat too much protein and fat loss stalls, you will want to limit total daily consumption to no more than 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight. 

Most of your protein requirements must be satisfied from very lean protein sources. Indeed, four of your meals must use lean protein sources, while the remaining one or two may come from a higher-fat source. For our purposes, a "lean source" is one that has no more than 10% of its calories from fat. It is important that you look at the calorie breakdown here, as a product may say "10% Fat" but refer to the fact that 10% of its macronutrients are fat. And because fat is more than twice as calorically dense as carbs or protein, it will derive more than 10% of its calories from fat. Now, as I have stated, this is a simple diet, so if you don't want to figure out what you can and cannot eat, I have provided a list of generally acceptable lean protein choices. 

In addition, one or two meals should contain a higher-fat protein choice. Again, I have provided a list for easy reference, but for those of you with peculiar tastes, you can choose any protein that derives about 20-25% of its calories from fat. If, however, you'd rather eat a lean protein, then for that meal you should add about 10-15 grams of fat from the "Fat List" below, in the fat consumption section. For example, if you have six meals, and four have protein sources from list A and two from list B, you are fine. You cannot have more than two from list B. And if you have none from list B, and all six from list A, then two meals must have an added fat source from the list below. 

Approved Lean Protein Sources (A) 



Chicken (white meat) 
Turkey (white meat) 
Tuna Fish (can) 
Fish (flounder, tuna (fatty or not), salmon, shark, etc.) 
Shellfish (all types) 
Protein (preferably whey post workout, and casein before bed; MRPs must be low-carb) 
Lean beef (including lean cuts of steak) 
Cottage Cheese (0 or 1% fat) 
Egg whites (egg beaters)
Approved Higher-Fat Protein Sources (B) 


Chicken (dark meat) 
Turkey (dark meat) 
Eggs (half whites, half whole eggs) 
Steak and other meats (not exceptionally high fat cuts) 
Cottage Cheese (Whole Milk)
Fat Consumption
As for fats, this diet does not worry too much about them. Nor will we discuss them much, save for this brief discussion here. While this is not a high fat (or Ketogenic) diet, it certainly is not a low fat diet. When I first started cycling carbs, I kept fats to probably less than twenty grams a day. Here, I recommend keeping dietary fats on the low side, with the majority of fats coming from supplemented EFAs (essential fatty acids)-specifically fish oil (high in long chain ***** 3 fatty acids -- EPA/DHA). 

Why fish oil? There are so many good reasons that a detailed discussion can be an article unto itself. For our purposes, it is sufficient to know that it has all the benefits of other EFA sources (such as flax and hemp oil) and in addition, has been shown to increase leptin sensitivity and exert positive effects on body composition much more efficiently than other EFAs (this is one of the important nutrient partitioning "tricks" one must employ for a successful recomposition). 

Now, on to the practicality of it. First, you will be getting some fats in your lean protein sources (probably between 10 and 20 grams of fat) and a few grams from the carb sources (another 10 to 20 grams on high carb day). Second, at least two meals per day will include protein of the higher-fat variety. And if not, then you should add a fat source from the list below. 

Fat Sources (an amount equal to 10 to 15 grams of fat). 


(Natural) Peanut Butter 
Flax Oil 
Heavy Whipping Cream 
Mayonnaise 
Hemp Seed Oil 
Olive Oil
Third, you will be supplementing with fish oil at 10 to 20 grams a day -- the more the better. This assumes you are using a standard fish oil supplement which, on average, contains one gram of oil and is 30% EPA/DHA. Should you choose the superior version, you may consume a bit less. I recommend you either split it up equally across all meals, or split it in half, and consume it with two meals. If you absolutely refuse to take fish oil, despite my pleas that you should (and the evidence that will be provided in the third installment), add in one to two servings of flaxseed or hempseed oil daily. 

Carbohydrate Consumption and the Cycling Process
Ah, the carbohydrate. By now (if you haven't skipped ahead, and I know some of you have - shame on you) you are saying, "its about time!" Well, the protein and fat portions of this diet are relatively easy to follow, but that does not mean they are unimportant. To the contrary, they are critical. This diet is one, however, that focuses on daily manipulation of carbohydrate consumption. First, we will discuss how we do this; then we will discuss additional concerns important to this diet. As previously mentioned, in a future installment, we will discuss in greater depth the theoretical and scientific underpinnings of the carbohydrate manipulation. 

As mentioned, we have three types of days in the diet, and they vary only by the amount of carbohydrate that is consumed. They are the high carbohydrate day (high carb), the low carbohydrate day (low carb), and the no (approaching zero) carbohydrate day (no carb). Again, we are assuming six meals per day, so you will need to adjust if you follow a five-meal plan.

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## Pinnacle

High Carb Day 


On your high carb day, four of the meals (three if you are only eating five meals) can have as much carbohydrates (yes, they must also be from the approved list - we love lists) as you like. But remember, you must eat the minimum amount of protein at each meal as discussed above. So for you carb gluttons out there, you might want to make sure you eat your protein source before truly loading up on those carbs first. 

Also, each one of those meals must include a small piece of fruit (again, a requirement before downing enough other carbs to the point of no return). Almost any fruit will do (save bananas, kiwis, avocado, and other very high calorie or high fat fruits). We are looking for a small serving of fresh fruit, say between 50 and 100 calories worth. The fructose from fruit will help keep liver glycogen stores full and keep your body in the fed state as opposed to starvation-mode. And, if only consumed in small amounts, is not likely to spill over into adipose. 

Also --and this is important-- you can choose which meals (3 of 5 or 4 of 6) will have carbs and which don't, but the meal preceding and following your workouts must be a carbohydrate meal. Obviously, make sure you leave sufficient time between your pre-workout meal and your workout, or limit the quantity of carbs at this meal, lest your body succumb to reverse peristalsis. Other than that, it's up to you, as I don't want to bog you down with too many "rules" (we have plenty already). The other two meals will be made up of protein only, and, while there is a minimum amount, as always, there is no maximum. 

So to sum up, all but two of your meals will have a small piece of fruit, and as much carbohydrate from the approved list as you like. The goal is to eat until complete physical, emotional, and thus, physiological satiety. You are not expected to gorge yourself, nor are you expected to exercise the usual strict self-restraint. 

As I said previously, I am a big believer in self-regulation by the mind and body. You are not to worry or stress about whether you are eating too much, or too little. If you eat too many carbs one meal, you will probably eat less the next, as you'll still be full (just make sure you get the protein in). The beauty of this plan is its simplicity-you are not "aiming" for any number. Rather, you are aiming for the subjective feelings that I just discussed, a satisfied stomach and mental state. You should not "want" more. 

Nor should you eat more than you want. Relax and go with the flow; it is quite hard to mess up the high carb day, if you stick to the right carbs. And you will learn your body's response as you go on. Increase your carbohydrate consumption if you are not "satisfied." You want a constant feeling of fullness, all day, such that you don't want to eat further. You need to be in tune to your body, and this comes with practice. 

Most people find themselves looking forward to, if not salivating at the thought of, the upcoming high carb day. This is no surprise. Indeed, it is by design, and how I came up with the plan for myself. It is a psychological reward, satisfying your emotional need to eat. It makes the very strict part of the diet (which we will get to) bearable. It is a small but frequent reward to hang on to that also has these profound psychological and, equally as important, physiological benefits. 

However, some of you will have a difficult time with the high carb day. Stress and concerns of eating too much will plague you. Not counting every gram of carb, and every calorie consumed, will haunt you. For those of you with such concerns I remind you that first, you are supposed to eat a lot of food on this day, to make sure that your weekly caloric deficit is not too low, and second, that no one should ever dread high carb day. The point is to eat as much as you want; not stuff yourself like a Thanksgiving turkey. 


Low Carb Day 


The low carb day is a bit trickier. Actually, it's the most difficult of the bunch. The anal group out there will love it though, as there are specific macronutrient goals. For those of you who, like me, deplore counting, fret not. There is a way around it (we'll discuss this privately later my lazy brethren). 

Here, three meals (two if you are only eating five meals) may contain carbs. Again, one rule is that at least the meal following your workout must be a carb meal. The others you can schedule as you see fit. Here, carb amounts are limited, however. We are seeking to eat approximately one gram of carbohydrate (from the list) per pound of bodyweight each low carb day. So our hypothetical 200 pound dieter would eat about 66 grams of carbs in each of three meals of the day, and the others would be just protein. Oh, and don't forget your small piece of fruit, at these carb meals, as well. 

Now, recall that this plan is designed for simplicity. So it is best if you simply learn general portions of the carbohydrates you choose to eat. I'd prefer that you don't measure out your carbs strictly; but for the exceptionally anal, this is your chance to shine. For those like me, the goal is a satisfied, but not full stomach. The subjective feeling to strive for is where you'd like to have more, but know you don't need it. 


No Carb Day 


The no carb day is the simplest, yet most physically challenging day. For most, the cyclical nature of the diet will make this day a relatively easy emotional challenge, however. It also, I am willing to bet, will be the most controversial day, among the dieting community. Yes, I am prepared to be tarred and feathered. Hell, I may enjoy it. Regardless, it is the key to this diet. And it involves, quite literally, no carbohydrates. Okay I lied: a few sneak in with your green veggies; as with any good rule, there is an exception. 

Here, you will stick to your six (or five) meals, and only consume protein (and some fats); again from the list, and again, at least meeting the prescribed minimum. Unless "masticatory boredom" sets in, however, I doubt you will have any trouble eating your minimums, and you likely will eat far more. However, do not be surprised if you eat less than you expect, since eating protein alone can cause one to feel satiated more rapidly. This may seem like a painful or difficult day, but in practice it's not that bad. Trust me. And remember, a high carb day is just around the corner. 


Veggies 


No, I did not forget. You won't find veggies (except the truly calorically dense ones) on the carb list. And here, I am referring to green leafy, low calorie, fibrous vegetables. Things like salad (no dressing), cabbages, escarole, broccoli, spinach, zucchini, squash, and kale are appropriate. Generally, any vegetable that contains less than 50 calories per cup will suffice. 

Each and every day, whether it be a high, low, or no carb day, at least three meals, each and every day should include one cup of green veggies. It can be with or without your carb meals. I don't care, though you may find it more pleasing to the palate to consume your vegetables with your no carb meals. 

Now, on to the good stuff: the lists. Don't get overly excited because you aren't going to see most of your favorite goodies on here. Indeed, it is a relatively sparse list, given the plethora of carb sources found in grocery stores. 


Approved Carbohydrates: 
Brown rice 
Oats (Slow Cooked Preferred) 
Sweet potatoes or Yams 
Fiber One (All Bran) Cereal 
Starchy Veggies (corn, peas, etc.) 
Beans/Legumes 
Approved Yet Limited Carbohydrates** 
Whole-wheat pasta 
Whole grain breads, pitas, etc.
** These may only be consumed on high carb days, and only for one meal per high carb day

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## Pinnacle

Part 2

Many people find a random three-day cycle as outlined in my first installment to be difficult, lifestyle-wise. If this is you, we can resolve this problem relatively easily. Here is one way: 


Monday, Wednesday, and Friday - No carb days
Tuesday and Saturday - High carb days
Thursday and Sunday - Low carb days
This schedule assumes a "normal" life. Should your schedule vary, and for the gravediggers and college kids out there, you may want a different plan, but my hope is that this will appeal to the masses, while simultaneous teaching the rest of you how to properly manipulate the diet to match your lifestyle. 

Just keep the following concepts in mind: 


Try not to put two no carb days back-to-back 
Certainly do not put two high carb days back-to-back 
Maintain what amounts to (roughly) a weekly ratio of 1:1:1 of the three types of days; and error towards the lower calorie side rather than the high calorie side

The Life-Style Cycle 


The Lifestyle Cycle is aptly named. It is designed for those who wish to "live life", enjoy the pleasures of food (and drink), friends, and social gatherings. It is a plan designed for maintenance, not body-fat loss, so you need to be "satisfied" with you current level of fitness. It can be used to get through an extended vacation or a long stretch of holidays (say from Thanksgiving until New Year) while you are otherwise cutting, or a period in your life when improvement is not a priority.

Yes, unlike most authors on the topic of diet I am conceding that (1) there are times when it is acceptable (hell even desirable) to eat for the sake of enjoyment alone, and (2) it is okay to be satisfied and not always seeking to achieve an improved physical state (which is obviously doomed to failure and self-loathing). This Lifestyle Cycle is based on the "ordinary" lifestyle of an "average" individual. 

If you have a peculiar way of life or just specific plans on specific days of a specific week, feel free to adjust accordingly so long as you understand the principles at work, and keep the weekly ratios the same. Likewise, if you gain fat easily you may need to cut back some on the gluttony, and the converse is true if you don't.

Here is a weekly cycle that should work nicely for most: 

Monday = No Carb 
Tuesday = Low Carb
Wednesday = High Carb
Thursday = No Carb
Friday = Low carb
Saturday = High Carb+
Sunday = Low Carb 
Now, if you are paying attention, you are saying to yourself "WTF is high carb+?" And you are probably also thinking, "sounds interesting," as you lick your lips. 
Well, it is interesting, and I think you'll like it. It is like a regular high carb day except: 


Any carbs are acceptable for your carb meals 
You may drink alcohol during one of your carb meals 
You must keep fats as low as possible (except continue with fish oil supplementation) 
In addition, once every other week, your middle of the week high carb day can have one "high carb+" meal. Implicit in this statement is the fact that this middle of the week high carb day can also be moved. 

Wednesday is optimal, but if the big dinner you have planned, or the office party, or hot date, falls on a Tuesday or Thursday, fell free to swap days. I would only warn that if you moved it to Thursday, Friday should become a no carb day, as you'd want to buffer two high carb days with a small period of depletion. So, for example, let's say the hot date fell on a Thursday. I'd recommend switching it up as follows: 


Monday = Low Carb 
Tuesday = No Carb
Wednesday = Low Carb
Thursday = High Carb
Friday = No carb
Saturday = High Carb+
Sunday = Low Carb

The Bulk Cycle 


Can one bulk while cycling carbs? Of course. Why would one want to? Now that is a more complex question. Essentially, it is a method of bulking while keeping fat gain minimal. The diet is designed to keep your body in a Fed State much of the week, thereby keeping you (mostly) anabolic . Can anyone bulk while cycling carbohydrates? Yes, albeit differently depending on body-type. 

First, I am going to discuss how one would bulk if he or she has any endomorphic tendencies. For such an individual, which I expect will be most of us, I recommend three high carb days, three low carb days, and one no carb day. For a pure endomorph, or someone with extreme endomorphic tendencies (i.e. you add body-fat easier than a hypothyroid hippo) you'll want to add an extra no carb day, and eliminate a low carb day, at the very least. 

Tweaking for body-type, a pure ****morph would (typically) be better served doing three high carb days and four low carb days, whereas a pure ectomorph would be best off with the converse: four high carb days and three low carb days. Understand that these are general guidelines and recommended starting places. Few of us are purely any one body-type but rather a blend of the two. So you are best off if you monitor, and tweak, as you go along. 

When setting up such a plan for any body type, keep in mind the following principles: 

Try not to stack more than two high carb days back-to-back (save for the endomorph) 
Do not put no carb days back-to-back 
Put your high carb days on days with your most difficult, highest volume workouts 
Put your no carb days on your off days, to the extent possible 
Allow one cheat meal weekly, where you can eat and drink what you like-after all, this is a bulk

Cyclical Diet & Training 


Most readers are not just dieting, thankfully. So it's high time we discussed optimizing your cycle with your training. One can tailor a cycle to training, or vice versa. Assuming that time constraints are not an issue, I recommend tailoring the diet cycle to your training when you are bulking, and your training to your diet when cutting. Why? Which takes precedent should vary depending on your (current) goal. When additional muscle is the driving force, training is of paramount importance. But when fat loss is the primary goal, diet drives the cart. 

Because of the numerous factors that must be considered when optimizing the two and the innumerable permutations that could result, I am not going to give specific programs. Instead, I will give general guidelines, and offer a single example, based on the standard three-day cutting cycle. 

When setting up your total program, use the following guideposts: 


Put your heaviest, hardest, and highest volume workouts on your high carb days. 
Where possible, put your heaviest, hardest, and highest volume workouts after a low carb day. This works well on a maintenance or bulk program, but not so much on a cut (where high carb days generally follow no carb days) 
Put your off days on your no carb days. Or, use these days for cardio work (if you insist on cardio) or you lightest low volume days. For example, active recovery workouts would be ideal here 
When cutting, keep the frequency of workouts, and/or the total volume lower than - you would when bulking 
Now, let's put this to practice. Assume one is cutting, and using the standard three-day cycle: no carb, high carb, low carb, repeat.
I would recommend setting up a four-day or six-day split that is spread out over six days. So, for example, you could do the following: 


A: Chest and Triceps
B: Back and Biceps
C: Quads, Hams, and Calves
D: Shoulders, Traps, and Forearms
Learn all your proper exercise form, here. 

You'd then play this routine as follows: 


No: Off
High: A
Low: B
No: Off
High: C
Low: D
Good luck, and have fun. And remember, variation and experimentation are the keys to winning the long-term battle of health and self-improvement. 


Supplementation 


Yes ladies and gentlemen, this is the point where I pimp some products. However, it is not pimping for the sake of pimping, but rather a discussion on products that can help optimize one variation of this diet or another. So, I will not outline the virtues of Avant products generally, or even discuss, for example, Lipoderm-Y or Ab-Solved (despite the fact that they can be used with this diet effectively). Rather, I will mention but very few products: 

LeptiGen - I am sure all the readers of this article are quite familiar with LeptiGen-its benefits use. Carb cycling will generally allow you to maintain a more aggressive cycle without killing your leptin levels as a Ketogenic diet might, for instance. So, even with moderate LeptiGen dosing one could increase the speed of fat-loss by doing a four day cycle such as: high carb, no carb, low carb, no carb. A higher dose would be necessary to offset anything more extreme. I would not even recommend a cycle akin to the one previously listed unless you are consuming at least two servings of LeptiGen per day. 

LeptiGen Mass - This will be hitting the market in the next few months, and will be beneficial to the bulker. You will be able to alter your cycle by performing less high carb days while still remaining as (or more) anabolic as you would had you kept them in your schedule. LeptiGen Mass will be particularly excellent for the endomorph on no carb days, and for all users on the low carb days. 


ICE - This premier BCAA formula by Xtreme Formulations gets top reviews and is an excellent addition to any carb cycle. I would highly recommend its use before or during training on no carb and low carb days. 

Now Foods Super EPA - This is a terrific product that allows a lower dosing of fish oil given its high EPA/DHA content. 
Again, many products can work nicely with this program, but it is beyond the scope of this article to address each and every one of them. 

Conclusion 


What is the point of all of this? Basically, it is what I initially stated in my first installment. This is a malleable diet than can be tailored to meet specific goals and specific body types. Do I know exactly how you the reader can optimize a cycle? No. But hopefully the above guidelines have empowered you to experiment based on past diet experience. I hope that this has empowered you to explore and understand what is working for you, and what is not, and how to adapt and optimize along the way. 

And as a bonus for reading this article, I am offering not one but two orange-juice juicers, as well as a handy-dandy convenient list of fibrous Veggies for your consumption. Corny pun intended. 

Fibrous Vegetables 


Alfalfa Sprouts 
Artichoke Hearts 
Arugula 
Asparagus 
Avocado 
Bamboo Shoots 
Bean Sprouts 
Beet Greens 
Bock Choy 
Broccoli 
Brussels Sprouts 
Cabbage 
Cauliflower 
Celery 
Celery Root 
Chard 
Chicory 
Chives 
Collard Greens 
Cucumber 
Dandelion Greens 
Eggplant 
Endive 
Escarole 
Fennel 
Hearts of Palm 
Jicama 
Kale 
Kohlrabi 
Leeks 
Lettuce 
Mache 
Millie lettuce
Mushrooms 
Okra 
Olives 
Onion 
Parsley 
Peppers 
Pumpkin 
Radicchio 
Radishes 
Rhubarb 
Sauerkraut 
Scallions 
Snow Pea Pods 
Sorrel 
Spaghetti Squash 
Spinach 
String beans
Summer Squash 
Tomato 
Turnips 
Water Chestnuts 
Wax beans 
Zucchini

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## marcus300

My that was some read Pinn nice find, there are many ways to carb cycling/ priming and knowing how your body responds in a dieted state will help you in find the right approach for you. Some nice sections in the above read thanks Pinn.

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## marcus300

Bumping this for all the PM's i am getting.........

The dosages are worked of the person's cycle history, what i may use would be different than what you would use.

You also don't need alot of different compounds, unless your history screams at you to do so, its the prime coupled with a high burst cycle/intense training program what will give you huge results, its not just the cycle its everything put in place what makes this a good way of cycling.

Dosages don't have to be high, short cycling can be implemented at any stage, when we talk about burst cycling the dose is ran alot higher than you would normally use, but this need only to be considered if you at a sticking point and growth as stopped or is very slow.

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## xXDevilDogXx

Excellent thread and great read!!!!


I actually used twin peaks carb cycling ideas to cut before this round. It works.


I'm interested in knowing how many of these cycles could be run in say, a year's time?

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## marcus300

> Excellent thread and great read!!!!
> 
> 
> I actually used twin peaks carb cycling ideas to cut before this round. It works.
> 
> 
> I'm interested in knowing how many of these cycles could be run in say, a year's time?


Depends on what your trying to achieve, a competing BB would run these type of cycles different to many of guys on here. BW would also help to find out if full recovery as taken place, cycling as healthy as possible is always something i would recommend unless your trying to attack things at a higher level.

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## legobricks

^^^ttt^^^

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## Pinnacle

> Depends on what your trying to achieve, a competing BB would run these type of cycles different to many of guys on here. .


Very true. I ran 6 week prop/suspension cycles for over 2 years straight. Let me clarify. They weren't uber high dose cycles like that suggested in this thread, just moderate(for me) doses. My idea was to recover quickly and get right back on. I averaged around 6 of these cycles yearly. During this time(2 yrs) I also tightened/tweaked my diet and made fantstic gains.

_Pinnacle_

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## marcus300

> Very true. I ran 6 week prop/suspension cycles for over 2 years straight. Let me clarify. They weren't uber high dose cycles like that suggested in this thread, just moderate(for me) doses. My idea was to recover quickly and get right back on. I averaged around 6 of these cycles yearly. During this time(2 yrs) I also tightened/tweaked my diet and made fantstic gains.
> 
> _Pinnacle_


Was the 6 wk cycles ran with a hrt dose between them or was full recovery implemented?

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## largerthannormal

i think im gonna have to try this...great post marcus

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## marcus300

Bumping form all the PM's ive had-

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## naturalsux

> Was the 6 wk cycles ran with a hrt dose between them or was full recovery implemented?


i d like to know the answer to this.

thanks.

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## one8nine

bump

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## dece870717

How are the PCT's on these type of cycles done? Since you are shut down for such a short period of time do you really need much of a PCT? Of course Nolva, maybe clomid?, but really what else would you use and how long would the PCT be for these?

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## one8nine

> How are the PCT's on these type of cycles done? Since you are shut down for such a short period of time do you really need much of a PCT? Of course Nolva, maybe clomid?, but really what else would you use and how long would the PCT be for these?


imo the same compounds and dosages but less time

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## dece870717

> imo the same compounds and dosages but less time


So like 2-3 weeks instead of 4-6?

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## Epic1

Good post to bring back up. Thanks !

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## one8nine

> So like 2-3 weeks instead of 4-6?


really you shouldnt limit yourself.
stop pct when you feel ready is the bottom line.
but it should be easier on short cycles.

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## mkrulic

bump

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## marcus300

> How are the PCT's on these type of cycles done? Since you are shut down for such a short period of time do you really need much of a PCT? Of course Nolva, maybe clomid?, but really what else would you use and how long would the PCT be for these?


Knowing your own body from previous cycles will help to decide which PCT is required to recover. yes, recovery is quicker and easier depends on compounds used for the short cycle but just do what you have done in previous cycle were recovery was good and get BW done..

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## marcus300

Bump for all the PM's i am getting, here is alot of the information required.....

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## glover

Excellent post. What would burst cyclying dose be for say someone who normally runs 1000 mgs per week?

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## marcus300

> Excellent post. What would burst cyclying dose be for say someone who normally runs 1000 mgs per week?


Due to the high amount of newbies I wont discuss dosages on the open board, i stated this in the start of the thread, dosages and compounds are designed off a person cycle history and there is no set rule, everyone is different, what may be a burst dose to me may well be completely different to someone else's. Dont want new guys thinking this is the answer because its not, its to get over a sticking point for the advanced bodybuilder and to create new growth.

Also this whole process can be designed to any level, not only just for the advanced bodybuilder.

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## Phate

Marcus- do you mind if i include this thread in my link database(of course i'll cite you)

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## marcus300

> Marcus- do you mind if i include this thread in my link database(of course i'll cite you)


Of course you can..

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## Doub1e_J

I am a cycle newb having only done 1 cycle of cyp for 10 weeks. At what point do you think you have enough longer cycles under your belt before trying a short burst?

The reason I ask is because I am planning out a 15 wk cycle now ( I have posted it ), in hopes of gaining more. I like the ideas you have mentioned here and they seem to be sensible. What would you recommend for a newbie like me who wants to try short bursts. How many years or cycles do I need to complete before I can move on to these shorter intense cycles?

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## hankdiesel

> I am a cycle newb having only done 1 cycle of cyp for 10 weeks. At what point do you think you have enough longer cycles under your belt before trying a short burst?
> 
> The reason I ask is because I am planning out a 15 wk cycle now ( I have posted it ), in hopes of gaining more. I like the ideas you have mentioned here and they seem to be sensible. What would you recommend for a newbie like me who wants to try short bursts. How many years or cycles do I need to complete before I can move on to these shorter intense cycles?


Start your own thread for this.

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## marcus300

> I am a cycle newb having only done 1 cycle of cyp for 10 weeks. At what point do you think you have enough longer cycles under your belt before trying a short burst?
> 
> The reason I ask is because I am planning out a 15 wk cycle now ( I have posted it ), in hopes of gaining more. I like the ideas you have mentioned here and they seem to be sensible. What would you recommend for a newbie like me who wants to try short bursts. How many years or cycles do I need to complete before I can move on to these shorter intense cycles?


I wouldn't recommend any type of burst cycling until you have come to a hault in your growth and you need some kind of kickstart past a sticking point into some serious growth, this will take years and you have a long way to go before even going down this route.

You can do a short cycle when ever you feel fit, just use the correct compounds and amount suited to your history and stage.

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## Doub1e_J

> I wouldn't recommend any type of burst cycling until you have come to a hault in your growth and you need some kind of kickstart past a sticking point into some serious growth, this will take years and you have a long way to go before even going down this route.
> 
> You can do a short cycle when ever you feel fit, just use the correct compounds and amount suited to your history and stage.


Thanks for the reply.

This is an excellent post. I will be trying to incorporate your ideas around the priming too. I hope to achieve some good results as you have.

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## Focusmen

bumping this cause is such a good read. marcus= tha man 

enjoy  :Smilie:

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## bigracso

To Pinnacle:

can you make an example of your cycle carb diet? Thanks

Do the calories must always be the self in all three days (high, low, no carb)? 

(so when you have high carb, self pro then you decrease the fat, when you have no carb, self pro then you increase the fat)

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## realjo1000

....

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## BJJ

Interesting read.

I am about to start my first burst cycle in a couple of weeks.

I knew I could find some info on your threads, I just needed to look them up...

Grazie

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## fig

> *Dosages*- The dose for a short burst cycle is alot more than you would normally use in a standard length cycle, because of the prime and the body being in a very anabolic environment it can take on board alot more than usual and over loading androgens will fully push the body to grow, it also takes time for the body to adjust to the high level of hormones in relation to sides so before you are experiencing them your off cycle.


Marcus...

I interpret the last part there as...if you start Prop lets say the first of the month, but don't feel it until the 14th of the month, then for the first 14 days you weren't on cycle. Meaning the 30 days would be from the 14th of this month to the 14th of the next. Is that correct? 

Reason I ask is b/c I was under the impression that even if you didn't "feel" the compound, it still starts to create a negative loop and shutdown from day 1.

Also, if I were to run a 30 day burst, I feel a full 4 week PCT would be necessary for me personally (could probably do less but why not). How long would you recommend I stay off _after_ a 4 week PCT assuming I was on for 30 days? I'm thinking very little or none.

Thanks for any help you can offer!

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## marcus300

I was referring to sides, the body takes its time to throw out sides so being on for a short period of time can help with sides and recovery.The negative feedback loop will still shut your body down from the increased androgens but your far better shutting it down for 4 weeks than 12-14weeks, the longer your on the more sides and harder shut down.

If your prime the body correctly you will feel the compound from day 1, the whole idea about priming is to create an anabolic environment for tissue to grow so when you hit a burst cycle coupled with the increased nutrition you start growing from day 1.

Looking back over how you recover will help with designing your pct on a burst cycle, if you require 4 wks pct then that's what you need to implement. After the pct you start to prime again and repeat the process, obviously you dont need to run a 8wks prime on your 2nd prime but 4-6 weeks should do great, some do shorter some do longer depends on how you feel.

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## fig

> I was referring to sides, the body takes its time to throw out sides so being on for a short period of time can help with sides and recovery.The negative feedback loop will still shut your body down from the increased androgens but your far better shutting it down for 4 weeks than 12-14weeks, the longer your on the more sides and harder shut down.
> 
> If your prime the body correctly you will feel the compound from day 1, the whole idea about priming is to create an anabolic environment for tissue to grow so when you hit a burst cycle coupled with the increased nutrition you start growing from day 1.
> 
> Looking back over how you recover will help with designing your pct on a burst cycle, if you require 4 wks pct then that's what you need to implement. After the pct you start to prime again and repeat the process, obviously you dont need to run a 8wks prime on your 2nd prime but 4-6 weeks should do great, some do shorter some do longer depends on how you feel.


I see...I totally misread. Thanks again. I'm going to run a burst starting Dec. 1st. I'll let you all know how it goes.

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## baseline_9

Gr8 thread marcus

I am going to be adopting shorter cycles

My nxt cycle will be 8 weeks long with short esters (longer than your blast style cycles)

I am priming right now, since reading your "priming thread" i think this is the way forward

Quicker recover sound like a good idea and i think that everyone should take this approach

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## marcus300

> Gr8 thread marcus
> 
> I am going to be adopting shorter cycles
> 
> My nxt cycle will be 8 weeks long with short esters (longer than your blast style cycles)
> 
> I am priming right now, since reading your "priming thread" i think this is the way forward
> 
> Quicker recover sound like a good idea and i think that everyone should take this approach


All you can do is try it and see for yourself, many of the pro's springboard out of a competition diet into a blast type cycle to take advantage of the highly anabolic environment there in, this window doesnt stay open for long so when you feel the gains slow or stop come off the cycle and recover.

Ive tried the longer cycles and ive tried the short cycles linked with a bridge which in turn is a long cycle!! and I've never responded like I have when ive implemented a prime linked to a short/burst cycle.

Best of luck

----------


## baseline_9

> All you can do is try it and see for yourself, many of the pro's springboard out of a competition diet into a blast type cycle to take advantage of the highly anabolic environment there in, this window doesnt stay open for long so when you feel the gains slow or stop come off the cycle and recover.
> 
> Ive tried the longer cycles and ive tried the short cycles linked with a bridge which in turn is a long cycle!! and I've never responded like I have when ive implemented a prime linked to a short/burst cycle.
> 
> Best of luck


My main concerns are HPTA recovery

Thats why i looked into the priming and the shorter cycles

Im taking as many precautions as possible so that i can recover as best possible (HCG will be run on cycle, i will incorporate a Swifto style PCT,meaning it will be 6 weeks long at a lower dose)

BW is all good ATM so we will see post cycle

----------


## marcus300

> My main concerns are HPTA recovery
> 
> Thats why i looked into the priming and the shorter cycles
> 
> Im taking as many precautions as possible so that i can recover as best possible (HCG will be run on cycle, i will incorporate a Swifto style PCT,meaning it will be 6 weeks long at a lower dose)
> 
> BW is all good ATM so we will see post cycle


You probably wont need a 6 wks pct with a short cycle but that depends how short your going to be on and compounds used, if you prime correctly you wont need to be on cycle for 8 wks that will be way to much, just leave it open ended and stop the cycle when gains slow, i would think you will start seeing slower gains around the 4 wk mark so by the 6th you will be done IMHO.

----------


## baseline_9

> You probably wont need a 6 wks pct with a short cycle but that depends how short your going to be on and compounds used, if you prime correctly you wont need to be on cycle for 8 wks that will be way to much, just leave it open ended and stop the cycle when gains slow, i would think you will start seeing slower gains around the 4 wk mark so by the 6th you will be done IMHO.


Id agree that ur probably rite about the PCT duration

I would rather be over cautious than under recovered if u kno what i mean

I am at the start of my AAS journey and want to make a good start

Anyway this is hijacking ur thread!!

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## The_Bezerker

i like short cycles but it is my beleif that half the people on here asking questions about short cycling shouldnt even be botherin. blast cycles and regular cycles are usally run incorrectly. Massive eating and digestion is all that matters along with a solid workout. Without that you could be blast cycling or running long cycles and it really wouldnt matter. Short cycles imo are for vertrans only not because their better or more scientifically "sophisticated" just every pound we pack on requires alot more energy and work. Id say for most screw the short cycle even tho it may sound badass just do wat ur comfortorbale with and triple your caloric intake. And btw marcus blast cycles dont need to be done w extreme doses i know your big into pb and dan d but i def do not beleive in neeeding large amounts of gear for big results.


i mean jeez no offense but if these picture avatars of you guys are up to date you shouldnt be wasting your time even thinking about this stuff, you should be re evaluating your diets workouts and general cycling

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## marcus300

> i like short cycles but it is my beleif that half the people on here asking questions about short cycling shouldnt even be botherin. blast cycles and regular cycles are usally run incorrectly. Massive eating and digestion is all that matters along with a solid workout. Without that you could be blast cycling or running long cycles and it really wouldnt matter. Short cycles imo are for vertrans only not because their better or more scientifically "sophisticated" just every pound we pack on requires alot more energy and work. Id say for most screw the short cycle even tho it may sound badass just do wat ur comfortorbale with and triple your caloric intake. And btw marcus blast cycles dont need to be done w extreme doses i know your big into pb and dan d but i def do not beleive in neeeding large amounts of gear for big results.
> 
> 
> i mean jeez no offense but if these picture avatars of you guys are up to date you shouldnt be wasting your time even thinking about this stuff, you should be re evaluating your diets workouts and general cycling


I said that blast cycles or short cycles can be used by anyone at any level, all you have to do is adjust the dose.The more advance bodybuilder will do more blast cycles with higher than normal dose but this isnt everyone, each to their own. This thread is called short burst cycles so thats why I talked about short burst cycles. But you can put this theory with any short cycle at any dose and at any level.

Drugs are a small part of bodybuilding.

----------


## fig

> i like short cycles but it is my beleif that half the people on here asking questions about short cycling shouldnt even be botherin. blast cycles and regular cycles are usally run incorrectly. Massive eating and digestion is all that matters along with a solid workout. Without that you could be blast cycling or running long cycles and it really wouldnt matter. Short cycles imo are for vertrans only not because their better or more scientifically "sophisticated" just every pound we pack on requires alot more energy and work. Id say for most screw the short cycle even tho it may sound badass just do wat ur comfortorbale with and triple your caloric intake. And btw marcus blast cycles dont need to be done w extreme doses i know your big into pb and dan d but i def do not beleive in neeeding large amounts of gear for big results.
> 
> 
> i mean jeez no offense but if these picture avatars of you guys are up to date you shouldnt be wasting your time even thinking about this stuff, you should be re evaluating your diets workouts and general cycling


The claim is shorter bursts are easier to recover from and less risky in terms of side effects. This is what interests me...looks like Baseline as well.

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## oker

Marcus - you mention GH during prime. If I couldn’t get a hold of it, would a TRT/HRT dose of test suffice during prime? I presume so since it is merely preparation for the hard burst cycle. My cycles are TRT/Cycle/TRT anyway, so burst cycles of 30 days at a time will fit nicely into my regimen.

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## Stiffmeister

> I said that blast cycles or short cycles can be used by anyone at any level, all you have to do is adjust the dose.The more advance bodybuilder will do more blast cycles with higher than normal dose but this isnt everyone, each to their own. This thread is called short burst cycles so thats why I talked about short burst cycles. But you can put this theory with any short cycle at any dose and at any level.
> 
> Drugs are a small part of bodybuilding.


 Marcus, do you believe in short cycles longer than 4 weeks, let's say 6-8 if the gains just keep on coming? I definitely agree that anything longer than 8 though is a waste of money in terms of the sides to gains ratio and leads to a more poor recovery. I'd say 4-8 is pretty optimal and gives enough leeway if you continue to gain past the fourth week. -Stiff

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## marcus300

> Marcus - you mention GH during prime. If I couldn’t get a hold of it, would a TRT/HRT dose of test suffice during prime? I presume so since it is merely preparation for the hard burst cycle. My cycles are TRT/Cycle/TRT anyway, so burst cycles of 30 days at a time will fit nicely into my regimen.


Gh in the prime,cycle or pct is of great benefit when your using this method, if you can get as many growth factors as possible into your system when your in this environment it will help the growing process and maintenance.

Are you on HRT because you have low test or are your cruising between cycles by your own means?

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## marcus300

> Marcus, do you believe in short cycles longer than 4 weeks, let's say 6-8 if the gains just keep on coming? I definitely agree that anything longer than 8 though is a waste of money in terms of the sides to gains ratio and leads to a more poor recovery. I'd say 4-8 is pretty optimal and gives enough leeway if you continue to gain past the fourth week. -Stiff


Short cycles aren't set at a certain length, the 30 day short burst cycle was an example of what I find to work for me to produce amazing gains when I was using the short burst theory. 

You have to remember you can just run a short cycle it doesnt have to be a burst short cycle, running a short cycle after a prime can achieve great gains and the length of cycle can be anything up to 8wks but many use around 4-6wks as a guideline, because your using short ester you can cut the cycle length down and achieve the same results in a shorter peroid, you can run it open ended and stop the cycle when gains slow or stop if you see fit.

----------


## Stiffmeister

> Short cycles aren't set at a certain length, the 30 day short burst cycle was an example of what I find to work for me to produce amazing gains when I was using the short burst theory. 
> 
> You have to remember you can just run a short cycle it doesnt have to be a burst short cycle, running a short cycle after a prime can achieve great gains and the length of cycle can be anything up to 8wks but many use around 4-6wks as a guideline, because your using short ester you can cut the cycle length down and achieve the same results in a shorter peroid, you can run it open ended and stop the cycle when gains slow or stop if you see fit.


 Alright awesome, thanks for the info. I finally see why those who use test prop in that way will never go back to long esters. Also, great thread on priming, more people need to read that and understand it's just a more efficient way to cycle. You save money, lessen sides, and gain more muscle in a shorter period of time. Why wouldn't you cycle that way? It still amazes me people want to run long cycles and gain less when the whole point of using AAS in the first place is to gain faster.

----------


## oker

> Gh in the prime,cycle or pct is of great benefit when your using this method, if you can get as many growth factors as possible into your system when your in this environment it will help the growing process and maintenance.
> 
> Are you on HRT because you have low test or are your cruising between cycles by your own means?


Bro, I'm 43 so lets just say it's TRT/cruising - I've done a few cycles in the past with PCT, but decided not to do PCT anymore as I recover very well and don't get sides even on high doses. I planned on cruising/primming on about 125mg of test e a week - for around 30 days then do a 30 day blast cycle, and then repeat the process and so on. However, the HGH may be a better option (rather than test) considering your primming theories, i.e. the HGH being a tool to prepare the body for the blast.

Could you give me an idea of dose for the HGH during prime? I know you don't like to discuss dose due to n00bs so would you prefer that PM you on this?

Cheers Marcus - great post btw!

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## The_Bezerker

not trying to knock this thread but there some mis information floating around first off if your trying to avoid a hpta shut down and a negative feed back loop which is the whole point of short cycles do not go longer than 4 weeks by 6 weeks ur just as shut down as a 12 weeker. 

Also you dont have to use short esters in blast cycles thats a common misconception u can use any ester length.

blast cycles shud be kept to 4 weeks with bridging in between


and marcus lol drugs make bodybuilding they are the number 1 peaice.


and orkel do not trade ur testesterone for GH and for god sakes run a pct and dont do trt. trt sucks imo. GH sucks also btw if u wanna bridge orkel (or w/e ur sn is) just stay on ur trt and maybe throw in sum growth factors

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## marcus300

> Bro, I'm 43 so lets just say it's TRT/cruising - I've done a few cycles in the past with PCT, but decided not to do PCT anymore as I recover very well and don't get sides even on high doses. I planned on cruising/primming on about 125mg of test e a week - for around 30 days then do a 30 day blast cycle, and then repeat the process and so on. However, the HGH may be a better option (rather than test) considering your primming theories, i.e. the HGH being a tool to prepare the body for the blast.
> 
> Could you give me an idea of dose for the HGH during prime? I know you don't like to discuss dose due to n00bs so would you prefer that PM you on this?
> 
> Cheers Marcus - great post btw!


If your on trt then you would run your trt dose while not on cycle and in your prime. 

You dont prime the body for 30 days you need to run a prime for around 6-8 wks then hit your cycle,

HGH is just additional growth factor you can use while priming/cycling or even recovering, you dont supplement it for your trt dose while in the prime, if your on gh you run it at low dose during the prime and up the dose while on cycle.

----------


## marcus300

> not trying to knock this thread but there some mis information floating around first off if your trying to avoid a hpta shut down and a negative feed back loop which is the whole point of short cycles do not go longer than 4 weeks by 6 weeks ur just as shut down as a 12 weeker. 
> 
> Also you dont have to use short esters in blast cycles thats a common misconception u can use any ester length.
> 
> blast cycles shud be kept to 4 weeks with bridging in between
> 
> 
> and marcus lol drugs make bodybuilding they are the number 1 peaice.
> 
> ...


Your getting confused because some people are talking about blast cycles in this thread and some are talking about standard short cycles, so some are very short cycles and other are slightly longer.

Again if you read the whole thread you will see that I do mention you can use long ester in a short cycle if the dose is high enough, but a lot of people are talking about short cycles not burst short cycle so in this case and in most short ester would be a better option.

You can run blast cycles for 4 wks linked to a bridge and you can also implement PCT and recover, nothing is set in stone with regards to bridging or recovering, that would depend on the individual not the concept.

If you think drugs make bodybuilding fair enough, i personally dont! i feel nutrition,being consistent and dedication does.

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## oker

> not trying to knock this thread but there some mis information floating around first off if your trying to avoid a hpta shut down and a negative feed back loop which is the whole point of short cycles do not go longer than 4 weeks by 6 weeks ur just as shut down as a 12 weeker. 
> 
> Also you dont have to use short esters in blast cycles thats a common misconception u can use any ester length.
> 
> blast cycles shud be kept to 4 weeks with bridging in between
> 
> 
> and marcus lol drugs make bodybuilding they are the number 1 peaice.
> 
> ...


 :Hmmmm:

----------


## oker

> If your on trt then you would run your trt dose while not on cycle and in your prime. 
> 
> You dont prime the body for 30 days you need to run a prime for around 6-8 wks then hit your cycle,
> 
> HGH is just additional growth factor you can use while priming/cycling or even recovering, you dont supplement it for your trt dose while in the prime, if your on gh you run it at low dose during the prime and up the dose while on cycle.


Anyway.....

Cheers Marcus for the info and got ya re the gh. After quite a few cycles, experimenting with different esters (long and short) I'm going to heed your advice and try the prime then blast as you suggested....including introducing the GH it makes perfect sense in terms of *preparing your body for an anabolic blast*. The prime/blast/prime idea works in well with my regimen and it won’t take much adjustment in terms of what I’m already doing, more or less, I.e. now I'm doing cruise/blast/cruise but will simply change to prime/blast/prime.

I've pretty much already started the prime _(I've already been carbing-up this past week and put on 6kg),_ but will now change to the *3 to 1 carb ratio* as outlined in your prime thread. This is another reason why this idea suits me as carbs don't agree with me and tend to make me look soft so I usually keep them at a minimum anyway. Wish me luck and will keep you posted - looking forward to the blast in about 6 weeks!!

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## dan5568

deffinetly a good read, i'll keep this approach in mind for future cycles. but i remember reading somewhere that high doses of test/androgens early in a cycle cause a huge increase in SHBG. it was written in responce to loading at the beggining of a cycle. ie- test prop/susp the first week or two of a cypionate cycle..or just taking a higher dose the first couple weeks of whatever your taking, it was said that SHBG would rise dramaticaly and slow any further gains..you seem to know your shit about this and clearly it works for you.. but whats your opinion on this?

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## nevergymless

If I was too do a 6 - 8 week Test E cycle, would I frontload the test 1000 mg first 2 weeks then go back down to 750 mg till I stop seeing gains ? 



I can afford only Test E for cycles .

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## marcus300

> Anyway.....
> 
> Cheers Marcus for the info and got ya re the gh. After quite a few cycles, experimenting with different esters (long and short) I'm going to heed your advice and try the prime then blast as you suggested....including introducing the GH it makes perfect sense in terms of *preparing your body for an anabolic blast*. The prime/blast/prime idea works in well with my regimen and it wont take much adjustment in terms of what Im already doing, more or less, I.e. now I'm doing cruise/blast/cruise but will simply change to prime/blast/prime.
> 
> I've pretty much already started the prime _(I've already been carbing-up this past week and put on 6kg),_ but will now change to the *3 to 1 carb ratio* as outlined in your prime thread. This is another reason why this idea suits me as carbs don't agree with me and tend to make me look soft so I usually keep them at a minimum anyway. Wish me luck and will keep you posted - looking forward to the blast in about 6 weeks!!


Best of luck to you and let us know how you get on, I'm not to clear exactly what your doing but if you have read the priming thread and this thread you should have all the tools to implement a good cycle for growth,  :Smilie:

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## marcus300

> deffinetly a good read, i'll keep this approach in mind for future cycles. but i remember reading somewhere that high doses of test/androgens early in a cycle cause a huge increase in SHBG. it was written in responce to loading at the beggining of a cycle. ie- test prop/susp the first week or two of a cypionate cycle..or just taking a higher dose the first couple weeks of whatever your taking, it was said that SHBG would rise dramaticaly and slow any further gains..you seem to know your shit about this and clearly it works for you.. but whats your opinion on this?


Ive never experienced gains stopping as soon as ive started a cycle but I have experienced gains stop or slow down after weeks of being on cycle. Normally the body will slow the gorwth process down after being on cycle and it does this in many ways, SHBG is one of them. Basically SHBG is the body's way at maintaining homeostasis. I once read a study yrs ago on some athletes who had Bloodwrok done before and during a cycle and its clearly showed the build up of SHBG after being on testosterone for weeks this would be our own bodies defence fighting back to maintain homeostasis.

Burst cycles dont have to be extreme dosages infact I wouldn't recommend extreme dosages more of a slight increase to what your use to. Burst cycles is just one method of short cycling you can implement short cycles at moderate dosages along side a prime. Burst cycles should only be considerd by the advanced Bodybuilder but the short cycle theory can be used by any level at any stage all what needs to be done is the dose to be designed to your cycle history.

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## marcus300

> If I was too do a 6 - 8 week Test E cycle, would I frontload the test 1000 mg first 2 weeks then go back down to 750 mg till I stop seeing gains ? 
> 
> 
> 
> I can afford only Test E for cycles .


No, just do a standard cycle if you havent cycled before, frontloading is a different thing.

----------


## oker

> Best of luck to you and let us know how you get on, I'm not to clear exactly what your doing but if you have read the priming thread and this thread you should have all the tools to implement a good cycle for growth,


I thought it was clear what I plan to do bro - I'm going to be doing your prime for the next 4-6 weeks which would normally be my cruise period, except in my cruise I usually carb up for mass, but will now closely follow your system with the 3 to 1 carb ratio as it is outlined in your priming thread. More specifically, 3 days low carbs 1 day high. To prepare myself for the blast. _ this will create a very_ _anabolic__ environment for muscle tissue to grow._ 

This is what you say in your post on priming so thought it would be clear that I've read it.

Anyway....thanks again and will keep you posted. More so during the blast in 4-6 weeks.

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## marcus300

> I thought it was clear what I plan to do bro - I'm going to be doing your prime for the next 4-6 weeks which would normally be my cruise period, except in my cruise I usually carb up for mass, but will now closely follow your system with the 3 to 1 carb ratio as it is outlined in your priming thread. More specifically, 3 days low carbs 1 day high. To prepare myself for the blast. _ this will create a very_ _anabolic__ environment for muscle tissue to grow._ 
> 
> This is what you say in your post on priming so thought it would be clear that I've read it.
> 
> Anyway....thanks again and will keep you posted. More so during the blast in 4-6 weeks.


If its your first time carb cycling (priming) try and aim for 6-8 weeks, the slower you do it the better it will be for retaining muscle tissue. Best of luck

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## songdog

Good job man.Very informative.

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## oker

> If its your first time carb cycling (priming) try and aim for 6-8 weeks, the slower you do it the better it will be for retaining muscle tissue. Best of luck


Cheers Marcus - will aim for the 6-8 week period as you suggested. Will start the blast then around mid november, give or take. Looking forward to the 30 day blast!!!

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## marcus300

> Cheers Marcus - will aim for the 6-8 week period as you suggested. Will start the blast then around mid november, give or take. Looking forward to the 30 day blast!!!


sounds good :Smilie: 

PM me your cycle and previous cycles, let me have a look at it,

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## oker

> sounds good
> 
> PM me your cycle and previous cycles, let me have a look at it,


You have a pm sir :-)

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## The_Bezerker

[QUOTE=oker;5364740]I thought it was clear what I plan to do bro - I'm going to be doing your prime for the next 4-6 weeks which would normally be my cruise period, except in my cruise I usually carb up for mass, but will now closely follow your system with the 3 to 1 carb ratio as it is outlined in your priming thread. More specifically, 3 days low carbs 1 day high. To prepare myself for the blast. _“… this will create a very_ _anabolic__ environment for muscle tissue to grow…”._ 

This is what you say in your post on priming so thought it would be clear that I've read it.


Oker not trying to bash you here. As you are just following advice given to you. But this is not how you prime at all and 4-6 weeks of priming is ridiculous.

The purpose of a prime is to get your body into a type of "survival mode". This is called controlled Catabolism. The purpose of Controlled catabolism is to consume more calories then you take in. This causes your body to go into survival mode and in response it starts upregulating all different kinds of receptor sites, enzymes, hormones etc etc in an attempt to use and store every single nutrient that comes its way to prevent starvation. Pretty much "priming" is when we take advantage of our body's own survival mechinisms and create a controlled starvation so our body gets ready to absorb any nutrients digested. This if done right can equate to signifgant muscle gain.

when priming you dont run Growth hormone you dont cycle carbs, basically all you have to do is reduce your calorie intake by half train and do cardio everyday for 14 days until your body is well overtrained. Now after this two weeks of starvation and overtraining you have created a awsome environment for muscle growth as the body in response will have up regulated anabolic receptors sites and nutrient storage sites.

This is it this is all you have to do for your prime no 4-6 weeks no carb cycling and no need for growth hormone 


i think i may right a thread on the correct way to do blast cycles

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## marcus300

*Please no one listen to the above advice, he has no idea what he is on about^^^*

Check the priming thread out for details on priming,

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## The_Bezerker

marcus edit how i am wrong

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## marcus300

> marcus edit how i am wrong


Go and read my primimng thread and learn how to prime correctly, you dont push your body into starvation mode thats what you dont want to happend because you dont want your metabolism to adpat and change you need to work the prime of your maintenance diet.
If you have found a way to prime what works for you stay with it but my opinion its rubbish, but each to their own.

Please no flamming its against the rules.

Also your other posts in this thread are so contridicting its hard to believe your being serious.One minute you say food and extreme eating is the key to growth not the amount of drugs and then you say drugs makes bodybuilding!, then you say your suppose to run a bridge with blast cycles then in the same post you say dont run trt come off and recover. Ive tried various times to explain to you but you either want to argue or you dont understand and just like giving out false information, but either way best of luck to you I dont have time to play your games

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## The_Bezerker

alright marcus lol thanks for the edit but for the benefit of me and others trying to learn please identify the areas of my above statement on priming that are scientifically and factually inaccurate? is the human bodies response to starvation is farily well documented i would truly love to know how i am in correct in my theory

please marcus elaborate

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## The_Bezerker

there are no contradictions drugs do make bodybuilding. Stop cycling for 1 year and then do a contest see how well you place.... And yes massive eating is essential to bodybuilding and drug usage. Lastly why go on trt after cycle that totally defeats the purpose of short cycles as if you are on maiatence dosage your hpta is still suppressed so the benefit of short blast cycles no longer exist. And yes i beleive in non hpta supressing bridges like running igf-1 and 2 grhp pgf-2a, insulin , growth, etc etc stuff that doesnt keep you shut down so ur hpta axis can recover and u can still put on muscle

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## marcus300

you carry on son with what works for you.

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## The_Bezerker

see marcus its this attitude i cannot stand. You critique my theories say i contradict myself and tell others on this site to not listen to what i write. then when i ask you in your infinite wisdom to provide information that will prove me wrong you offer nothing but sarcastic remarks

please marcus if you cannot offer 1 peaice of information that disproves my theorys please do not label them as foolish.

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## marcus300

> see marcus its this attitude i cannot stand. You critique my theories say i contradict myself and tell others on this site to not listen to what i write. then when i ask you in your infinite wisdom to provide information that will prove me wrong you offer nothing but sarcastic remarks
> 
> please marcus if you cannot offer 1 peaice of information that disproves my theorys please do not label them as foolish.


When I read your posts in this thread they don't make sense. I've told you that going into starvation will reset the metabolism and that's not the way I prime because you want to work off a maintenance diet and you don't want your metabolism changing, if you do fair enough but I don't and if you want to know my prime read my thread on it. If your happy you carry on doing what works but all you have been doing in this thread is arguing about everything and not making sense.

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## oker

[QUOTE=The_Bezerker;5366893]


> I thought it was clear what I plan to do bro - I'm going to be doing your prime for the next 4-6 weeks which would normally be my cruise period, except in my cruise I usually carb up for mass, but will now closely follow your system with the 3 to 1 carb ratio as it is outlined in your priming thread. More specifically, 3 days low carbs 1 day high. To prepare myself for the blast. _ this will create a very_ _anabolic__ environment for muscle tissue to grow._ 
> 
> This is what you say in your post on priming so thought it would be clear that I've read it.
> 
> 
> Oker not trying to bash you here. As you are just following advice given to you. But this is not how you prime at all and 4-6 weeks of priming is ridiculous.
> 
> The purpose of a prime is to get your body into a type of "survival mode". This is called controlled Catabolism. The purpose of Controlled catabolism is to consume more calories then you take in. This causes your body to go into survival mode and in response it starts upregulating all different kinds of receptor sites, enzymes, hormones etc etc in an attempt to use and store every single nutrient that comes its way to prevent starvation. Pretty much "priming" is when we take advantage of our body's own survival mechinisms and create a controlled starvation so our body gets ready to absorb any nutrients digested. This if done right can equate to signifgant muscle gain.
> 
> ...


I think Marcus's theories on priming/blasting are very clear and suit my current regimen very well indeed. To be more specific, based on my diet/cycle history Marcuss prime and blast are similar in may ways to what I'm already doing, so its not like Im new to this idea. I always do some form of carb cycling because I'm sensitive to carbs and tend to blow up or look soft when eaten. This is why I do the keto diet while cutting I can eat as much fat as I want and still looked ripped. Genetically some people dont get fat while eating carbs, but I do so Im careful with them.

Now I'm going to follow Marcuss advice for a few reasons Im not just blatantly jumping into this with no idea, but have researched it carefully. 
Firstly, I like the idea of carb-cycling, because raising my carbs slowly over a period of time (as Marcus has suggested) makes perfect sense because I want to put on size minus the soft look, and, from experience this works well for me and is how I bulk anyway, that is, by carb-cycling and/or via a keto diet with a carb-up day. Secondly, I like the idea of a 30 day blast cycle as I agree with Marcus (and many others) that after 4 weeks gains slow down, and from my personal experience after doing many cycles I didn't make a lot gains after a 4 week period anyway, so Im willing to try the 30 day blast at a higher dose. 

I think Marcus has some good advice and is an experienced BB so I dont think you should be knocking the guy, but read all of his threads carefully as there is some intelligent, sound advice in there. Marcus is NOT suggesting that I follow all he as said to a T, but carefully incorporate these ideas by taking your cycle/diet history into account, and adjust it accordingly, which is what Im doing. Many people have theories on priming/blasting, for example, Ronnie Rowland offers his account on the concept in a very interesting thread. The point is that his, and Ronnies theories may conflict with your own ideas, but it doesnt make them wrong, but each has created their own ideas on the concept of priming/blasting with obvious variations (one must read between the lines of any theory). Both Marcus and Ronnie are experienced BBs and have put these theories into practice so they do actually work, so give the guy a break bro.

----------


## sixey

i havent read the whole thread, but i am finishing up my cut before i start my cycle in a few weeks. just dieting and cardio as hard as i possibly can, really getting down and not worrying about depleting myself. my belief is that it will indeed promote a more anabolic environment (as marcus has posted). and also i am prone to estrogenic related sides, so the less bodyfat the better for me. also gains will look alot better on a physique with %10 or less bodyfat. im chomping at the bit to start this cycle, but giving it 2 more weeks to try to drop another 5lbs (using var and ec, combined with a brutal diet+cardio so 5lbs should be nooo problemo)

----------


## stefan_bjj

Marcus, how can I adapt this cycle to a bjj precompetion. What other compounds are good to mixed with t.propionat?

----------


## marcus300

> Marcus, how can I adapt this cycle to a bjj precompetion. What other compounds are good to mixed with t.propionat?


What is your cycle history?
Stats?

----------


## COMANCHERO13

* real good thread. always have heard the opposite about anabolics. low dosages longer cycles. real interesting. this is probably a stupid question, but does this same concept work with over the counter prohormones? im 21 so from everything iv ever heard, 21 is way to young to mess with anobolics. so im not trying to **** with them if thats true. started lifting weights in prison at a young age. am in amazing shape. real thick. but wondering where i should go from here to take it to the next level.*

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## shennen

> still suppressed so the benefit of short blast cycles no longer exist


 Pretty much proves you didnt read the entire thread, youre information on this topic is a joke/laugh off compared to an experienced BB trying to assist others with a method that works well for him and reduced sides greatly WHILE providing excellent growth.




> there are no contradictions drugs do make bodybuilding. Stop cycling for 1 year and then do a contest see how well you place.... And yes massive eating is essential to bodybuilding and drug usage. Lastly why go on trt after cycle that totally defeats the purpose of short cycles as if you are on maiatence dosage your hpta is still suppressed so the benefit of short blast cycles no longer exist. And yes i beleive in non hpta supressing bridges like running igf-1 and 2 grhp pgf-2a, insulin, growth, etc etc stuff that doesnt keep you shut down so ur hpta axis can recover and u can still put on muscle


LOL
Do you know what TRT is? Id look into it an reread this, then maybe youll understand why your 'theorys' are labeled as foolish. What exactly are you trying to do here Bezerker? Discredit Marcus for his write up? hahahaahahhhah


Anyway, Good info marcus, Gonna try to prime before my next cycle. Thanks.

----------


## marcus300

Thanks

----------


## Kdub

Great info as always Marcus. Cheers!

What about Burst Cycles with Long esters? Deca , Enanthate , Cypionate , Primo?

If we were to use 4,000 mgs of Prop (short ester) over 30 days (1000 mg/wk) as the primary growth compound, how would we use Enanthate?

2000 mg each week for the first two weeks then stop seeing as the long ester remains for roughly 14 days? This method would take us out out to the 30 day mark then run PCT?

----------


## Kdub

Double post.

----------


## Far from massive

Marcus,

I have just finished reading the thread and will read it a few more times to Prime/Saturate my brain (so much good information) thanks for taking the time to write a well written, concise and very detailed thread.

For anyone who thinks the thread is incorrect, please write your own thread instead of trying to interrogate Marcus on his system. There are way too many people who just want to have a point clarified which may benifit many others, rather than redirecting the thread into a college debate.

Thanks again,

FFM

----------


## rc_p90

love this thread. subd

EDIT: Would Keto be ok for 'Priming' with 1 refeed a week? I find Keto to be so much easier to log than a carb cycling diet.

----------


## BlInDsIdE

bump- awesome thread

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## AnimalJ

Again Marcus, i now better understand. Thanks!

----------


## liveinyourbody

Wow great info hear Marcus, Finishing my prime as we speak! Keep up the amazing information brother!

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## marcus300

^^^ glad to hear it  :Smilie:

----------


## liveinyourbody

Marcus one question pls, I know you said it is cycle history dependant, but in your exp what way of pct did you find most effective for gains. Option A- complete pct, 4-6 wks after 30 day burst.....or Option B- bridge cycle with low test for 2/3 weeks then another burst cycle for 30 days, or does this defeat the whole burst purpose?
I was just thinking that with doing 2 seperate burst you shutdown HTPA COMPLETELY 2 times, compared to just one shut down with the bridged cycle?
WhatAre your thoughts marcus? Thanks again great info

----------


## marcus300

> Marcus one question pls, I know you said it is cycle history dependant, but in your exp what way of pct did you find most effective for gains. Option A- complete pct, 4-6 wks after 30 day burst.....or Option B- bridge cycle with low test for 2/3 weeks then another burst cycle for 30 days, or does this defeat the whole burst purpose?
> I was just thinking that with doing 2 seperate burst you shutdown HTPA COMPLETELY 2 times, compared to just one shut down with the bridged cycle?
> WhatAre your thoughts marcus? Thanks again great info


 There are many ways to cycle so this method is just like any other way of cycling, do you normally go into pct or do you bridge and go to the next cycle. If you bridge 2 short cycles together it becomes a long cycle or a slingshot deload reload cycle. Bridging will depend on your goals and what you want to achieve vs risks. Ive ran many different ways with burst cycles but the choice is yours if you should bridge or not. Many would state your defeating the object of running a short cycle and recovering but there are many who brdige short cycles together with great gains vs low sides.

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## liveinyourbody

That makes it cut and clear for me. No bridging, defeats the purpose and thank you for clearing that up. 
SinceThis is an on gong educational thread I will ask just one more ?

How long should one wait after a complete pct recovery to do another burst?

Again thank you marcus for your knowledge.

----------


## marcus300

> That makes it cut and clear for me. No bridging, defeats the purpose and thank you for clearing that up. 
> SinceThis is an on gong educational thread I will ask just one more ?
> 
> How long should one wait after a complete pct recovery to do another burst?
> 
> Again thank you marcus for your knowledge.


 Again depends on the goals and what your trying to achieve but I liked priming again after pct and then hitting another cycle in around 6 weeks time. Bridging is another way but to be honest if your not competing I would stay away from it.

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## liveinyourbody

Got it, I will put 6wks between them to recover and start the priming process again. very interested to see what this short burst will do with hard work pushing it. Will log results from start to finish with blood work involved before and after. Thanks Marcus

----------


## xeroxy

I read about this a couple of years ago and i was very sceptical to say the least, so i tried it, to say i was pleasantly suprised would be the understatment of the year, i was amazed with the results. 
My cycles have totally changed and so has my physique.

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## marcus300

> Got it, I will put 6wks between them to recover and start the priming process again. very interested to see what this short burst will do with hard work pushing it. Will log results from start to finish with blood work involved before and after. Thanks Marcus


 No you need to recover first and do either a 4 or 6 wk pct and once recoverd you can start to prime again for the next cycle.

----------


## marcus300

> I read about this a couple of years ago and i was very sceptical to say the least, so i tried it, to say i was pleasantly suprised would be the understatment of the year, i was amazed with the results. 
> My cycles have totally changed and so has my physique.


That happens to most people who try this way of cycling, the gains are amazing and the transformation can be matched IMHO, well done and thanks for the feedback

----------


## t-gunz

marcus bit confused atm. 

re: once you have have primed and start the 30 day burst. do you keep the diet the same? 3/4 low 1 high? but above maintenance 

also 

when do the short burst. do you do a standard PCT protocol? then do time off time on method? and prime again whilst waiting?

----------


## marcus300

> marcus bit confused atm. 
> 
> re: once you have have primed and start the 30 day burst. do you keep the diet the same? 3/4 low 1 high? but above maintenance 
> 
> also 
> 
> when do the short burst. do you do a standard PCT protocol? then do time off time on method? and prime again whilst waiting?


Priming is what you do before you start the cycle, its a pre cycle prime to create a very anabolic environment. Once you start the cycle weather that's a 30 day cycle,6 week cycle or any other length cycle you have to increase the calories and feed the growth (eat to grow) at this very excitable phase from day 1.

Some guys tend to hold water due to the carb increases straight after the prime, if your one of these guys you need to slowly increase the carbs over the first 2 weeks of the cycle so you dont hold as much water. But others dont and you can increase the calories start from day 1 and keep increasing as your develop along the cycle, this is something what your going to have to work out yourself but if you have never primed before it will be a learning curve for your future primes. For me, I use to increase from day 1 and carry on increasing throughout the cycle and use this special time to my advantage.

You can run any kind of cycle after a prime but a short cycle suits it much better, 6 weeks and under would be ideal. I use to do a lot of burst short cycles which meant i would only run 30 days cycle but more intense than the standard short cycle and dosages, these types of cycles/primes is were I built the best tissue of my life, I increased in muscle tissue dramatically and I never went back to standard length of cycling again.

Looking back over your previous PCT's will give you an indication on how you recover after a cycle, using what you have used before will do just fine, standard pct fits perfectly. 

Priming - cycle - pct - and then prime again for around 6-8wks is what protocol I use to use. Depending which level and what your trying to achieve would be a big influence on when you go back on cycle.

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## t-gunz

excellent very detailed. thanks marcus. im pretty much sorted now. just will concentrate on the diet training and cardio. so far so good  :Smilie:

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## marcus300

> excellent very detailed. thanks marcus. im pretty much sorted now. just will concentrate on the diet training and cardio. so far so good


Keep me informed how your getting on  :Smilie:

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## stpete

Great read Marcus! Not really sure why i'm just now coming across your thread and not a few years ago. Anyway, it gave me some great ideas as i just started a short 6 week cycle today including tren a and test prop.
Not really sure what to say about your profile pic.....haha...

----------


## stpete

Trying to remove double post. Sorry.

----------


## t-gunz

> Great read Marcus! Not really sure why i'm just now coming across your thread and not a few years ago. Anyway, it gave me some great ideas as i just started a short 6 week cycle today including tren a and test prop.
> Not really sure what to say about your profile pic.....haha...



well ill give you my input as im implementing this as we speak.

1. take your time priming. if you feel you need to prime a touch longer do it. as it will be worth it. 

2. make sure your training is up to scratch its only a short time on the cycle and you really need to give EVERYTHING you have. no half ass'd work as you will not reap the benefits.

i am on test p and tren a and i will never use a long easter compound again nor will i do very long cycles anymore.

hope this helps mate. 


good luck mate. research this as much as possible. it can work WONDERS

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## stickyfingers

marcus would you be able to post up and example of what sort of routine you think is best to be used during such a cycle

cheers

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## marcus300

> marcus would you be able to post up and example of what sort of routine you think is best to be used during such a cycle
> 
> cheers


Any kind of HIT style training works great with short burst cycling. I incorporate alot of intense techniques when on short burst cycles mostly they are dropsets to failure reps, forced and negs usually over 1-2 working sets. This kind of training is rough on the body but its only for a short period of time so you can get mentally focused and wont get burnt out because its not ran for weeks on end. You need to recruit as many fibres as possible while training to you encourage and push growth at this very anabolic time.

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## STAN.

fantastic read. :Bbbump:

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## angelo212

Great read Marcus. This is the way I'm going for now on.

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## marcus300

Bump

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## Charger527

if you havent done one have a look!

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## marcus300

anyone try short bust cycles

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## D2'd

I'm gonna run one in August following this 10 week prime that I'm in the middle of right now. Gonna run one compound, Test Suspension @ 100mg/day for 28 days. I want to use one compound only to see how I respond to this style of cycle, unless some experts suggest something a little different! Proper AI, HCG , PCT of course as well. I'm still up in the air on calories above baseline, as I don't want a dirty bulk. I was thinking 300-500/day extra....

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## marcus300

> I'm gonna run one in August following this 10 week prime that I'm in the middle of right now. Gonna run one compound, Test Suspension @ 100mg/day for 28 days. I want to use one compound only to see how I respond to this style of cycle, unless some experts suggest something a little different! Proper AI, HCG, PCT of course as well. I'm still up in the air on calories above baseline, as I don't want a dirty bulk. I was thinking 300-500/day extra....


If your carb sensitive then when you start introducing carbs after the prime and on day one of the short burst cycle you really need to drip feed the carbs over 2 weeks until the body gets use to them otherwise you will gain a lot of water weight/bulk. If your not really carb sensitive them just hit your bulking straight head on from day one of the bulk.

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## mukhtarsafarov

Hi Marcus...great article...!!! Not sure how to send you pm, dont see a sign of it here , so will send you a message here and will e happy if you can answer me privately...I am trying to prepare to my first comp, i am 200 lb 6'1, done quite a few cycles .... tren , test, mixes, max dose 2 gramm a week total gear , cycles for 8-10 weeks in general.... decent progress...what i want to do now is a short burst cycle that markus mentioned in his thread before..... fo r4-5 weeks, then 4-5 weeks pct and priming at the sme time and repeat... looking just for test only cycle in big doses, maybe with addition of dianabol for bulking.....what would you suggest regarding doses i should use for this short one? as i mentoned before the highest i had was 2 gr a week.... also very curious how do you use your doses and how do you manage them from cycle to cycle...thank you
Mukhtar

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## austinite

^ Welcome. You can't send PM's until you have 50 posts. Marcus frequently checks this thread so he should reply to you shortly. 

Enjoy your stay.

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## mukhtarsafarov

Thank you :Welcome:

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## amorse67

just now seen this ...great read.very informative..

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## mukhtarsafarov

Please let me know Marcus.... thinking of starting YOUR CYCLE in 3 weeks.... i do some priming for a week already....and ready to go in 3 weeks or so... just wonder how much up i should put my regular doses... thank you..M

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## austinite

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...e-cycling.html

Allow at least 6 weeks to prime. Be patient as marcus is in the UK. He will respond when he can.

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## mukhtarsafarov

Ok...is that your picture :Smilie:  if yes, very sexy !  :Smilie:

----------


## OnTheSauce

> Ok...is that your picture if yes, very sexy !


Facepalm

----------


## marcus300

> Hi Marcus...great article...!!! Not sure how to send you pm, dont see a sign of it here , so will send you a message here and will e happy if you can answer me privately...I am trying to prepare to my first comp, i am 200 lb 6'1, done quite a few cycles .... tren , test, mixes, max dose 2 gramm a week total gear , cycles for 8-10 weeks in general.... decent progress...what i want to do now is a short burst cycle that markus mentioned in his thread before..... fo r4-5 weeks, then 4-5 weeks pct and priming at the sme time and repeat... looking just for test only cycle in big doses, maybe with addition of dianabol for bulking.....what would you suggest regarding doses i should use for this short one? as i mentoned before the highest i had was 2 gr a week.... also very curious how do you use your doses and how do you manage them from cycle to cycle...thank you
> Mukhtar


There is a lot what goes into designing a short burst cycle, previous cycle history, do you use hgh, previous dosages, how you responded to certain compounds, how you react to sides, which compounds produce the best gains. Then there is the pre cycle prime which is very important this needs to be ran for at least 6 weeks 8 would be better first time around.
Your better getting your post count up so your pm's get activated because even if your at the advance level for a SBC its a delicate subject seeing that there are many newbies here who would think they would try something like this.

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## marcus300

> Ok...is that your picture if yes, very sexy !


That's just a avy, he a man

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## MuscleInk

> That's just a avy, he a man


^^^Apparently a sexy....man....lol

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## marcus300

> Please let me know Marcus.... thinking of starting YOUR CYCLE in 3 weeks.... i do some priming for a week already....and ready to go in 3 weeks or so... just wonder how much up i should put my regular doses... thank you..M


By far SBC is the best way to cycle for size and gains with least amount of sides IMHO but you will need more than 3 weeks priming IMHO. You do a short burst correctly and you will never go back to the standard length cycles again.

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## marcus300

> ^^^Apparently a sexy....man....lol


yes indeed x

----------


## Rida5d

Great post .. Excellent one..
Something had stopped me and was astonishing even its not linked directly to the subject, and that's when u said ".... to the BB's who prefer long ester and they respond better to them"
My question is, do our bodies really respond differently to different esters , even it's the same compound we are speaking about?


My last question is.. If those cycles have less negative impact on Hpta, then does it make sense for the older folks to be cycling this way? 

Regards.


Edit: I just found out that this read is 4 pages, so if my questions have been answered, I apologize for repeating.

----------


## mukhtarsafarov

> By far SBC is the best way to cycle for size and gains with least amount of sides IMHO but you will need more than 3 weeks priming IMHO. You do a short burst correctly and you will never go back to the standard length cycles again.


Ok Marcus, thank you for your reply...not sure if i will have more than 4 weeks for priming this time but let's see how it's gonna work with me this way this time...i will probably just double my regular doses for 30 days use of test and see how it goes... 
i wanted to fit your system to my competetive schedule so i thought maybe i will do 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off with pct and priming at the same off time/know it sounds strange but just want to experiment and see how it works this way..../
not interested in a bridge so 4 weeks off for not loosing much muscle and short priming will be good idea with my thight schedule...sure after 3-4 cycles like that in a row i will have to put up my doses as body will get used to it shortly...

Regarding HGH, i have never used it and actually never believed in a much result with it anyway....and definetly will not risk my life with insulin ... HGH can be good at some point for some people but as much as i heard from my pro friends, it doesnt really help in anything that much plus you can not really separate its results from steroids as u always have to use them together for some decent action except times when u use it only for anticatabolic purposes solely.... but i guess using cycles 4 on 4 off you will not have enough time to get too catabolic, if proper pct have placed asap after each short cycle....
so this is my humble opinion, let me know if you think it could work this way... 

Mukhtar

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## mukhtarsafarov

> That's just a avy, he a man


Lol, i hoped that was Dana linn in flash  :Smilie:

----------


## bigspin

great read, very interesting points.
sorry if this has already been answered but how long after pct completion should your next prime be started?

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## BulkQuest

Would a burst cycle be okay for a newbie starting a first cycle? Lets say 700mg of sus for 5 weeks

----------


## marcus300

> Ok Marcus, thank you for your reply...not sure if i will have more than 4 weeks for priming this time but let's see how it's gonna work with me this way this time...i will probably just double my regular doses for 30 days use of test and see how it goes... 
> i wanted to fit your system to my competetive schedule so i thought maybe i will do 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off with pct and priming at the same off time/know it sounds strange but just want to experiment and see how it works this way..../
> not interested in a bridge so 4 weeks off for not loosing much muscle and short priming will be good idea with my thight schedule...sure after 3-4 cycles like that in a row i will have to put up my doses as body will get used to it shortly...
> 
> Regarding HGH, i have never used it and actually never believed in a much result with it anyway....and definetly will not risk my life with insulin ... HGH can be good at some point for some people but as much as i heard from my pro friends, it doesnt really help in anything that much plus you can not really separate its results from steroids as u always have to use them together for some decent action except times when u use it only for anticatabolic purposes solely.... but i guess using cycles 4 on 4 off you will not have enough time to get too catabolic, if proper pct have placed asap after each short cycle....
> so this is my humble opinion, let me know if you think it could work this way... 
> 
> Mukhtar


I wouldn't advice any of that

----------


## marcus300

> Would a burst cycle be okay for a newbie starting a first cycle? Lets say 700mg of sus for 5 weeks


No just do a standard first cyvle of around 400mg to 500mgs for ten to twelve wks

----------


## Chicagotarsier

> No just do a standard first cyvle of around 400mg to 500mgs for ten to twelve wks


Great thread Marcus. Thank you for the effort. The carb cycling and burst explanations were very informative. Priming is very interesting to me. Studying it all and taking notes. Thank you again.

----------


## marcus300

> Great thread Marcus. Thank you for the effort. The carb cycling and burst explanations were very informative. Priming is very interesting to me. Studying it all and taking notes. Thank you again.


Thanks, check out this thread for some solid information on training, diets and aas http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-l...ary%2A%2A.html

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## marcus300

bump

----------


## Jatada

Examples of short cycles please ?

----------


## tice1212

> Examples of short cycles please ?





> Due to the high amount of newbies I wont discuss dosages on the open board, i stated this in the start of the thread, dosages and compounds are designed off a person cycle history and there is no set rule, everyone is different, what may be a burst dose to me may well be completely different to someone else's. Dont want new guys thinking this is the answer because its not, its to get over a sticking point for the advanced bodybuilder and to create new growth.
> 
> Also this whole process can be designed to any level, not only just for the advanced bodybuilder.



If u read his first post he stated that he will not be giving any advice to newbies...

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## JinAustin

Awesome post, have been doing research for quite awhile on these types of cycles. Glad I came across this one!
I shall send a PM when getting ready for this style

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## lovbyts

Great write up Marcus and it was even better my 2nd read. I forgot about this it's been so long since I read it.

Ive ran a few short burst cycles but they were low dose because they started out as regular 12 weeks but got cut short due to life or injury. lol

Got to try one of these in the future. 

I think your explanation on how the body grows in spurts is right on and seen it many times and believe the same logic can be used for dieting. That's why people tend to hit the wall or plateaus.

----------


## major34

Can we Use Exogenous Insulin alongside AAS on a short burst cycle ? anyone has any opinion on this?

----------


## Buster Brown

> Can we Use Exogenous Insulin alongside AAS on a short burst cycle ? anyone has any opinion on this?


Are you an experienced slin user?

----------


## major34

> Are you an experienced slin user?


ofcourse i have done one 30 days slin cycle with outstanding results and also moderate fat gain
2x a day protocol morning/post workout 7iu each following a 60gram whey +5gcreatine +50gdextrose +20g malto and very clean diet with no fat while slin was active 
slin was stacked with Test p , Anadrol .

just wanna know is it ok to start runing slin from day 5-30 ? (2x a day starting from 3iu and going to 8iu on each injection)
would prime effect the results from slin ?

----------


## Buster Brown

> ofcourse i have done one 30 days slin cycle with outstanding results and also moderate fat gain
> 2x a day protocol morning/post workout 7iu each following a 60gram whey +5gcreatine +50gdextrose +20g malto and very clean diet with no fat while slin was active
> slin was stacked with Test p , Anadrol .
> 
> just wanna know is it ok to start runing slin from day 5-30 ? (2x a day starting from 3iu and going to 8iu on each injection)
> would prime effect the results from slin ?


Marcus300 would be the man to ask as he is quite experienced with short bursting cycles.

----------


## marcus300

> ofcourse i have done one 30 days slin cycle with outstanding results and also moderate fat gain
> 2x a day protocol morning/post workout 7iu each following a 60gram whey +5gcreatine +50gdextrose +20g malto and very clean diet with no fat while slin was active 
> slin was stacked with Test p , Anadrol .
> 
> just wanna know is it ok to start runing slin from day 5-30 ? (2x a day starting from 3iu and going to 8iu on each injection)
> would prime effect the results from slin ?


I wouldn't advice anyone to take slin over the internet its just a personal choice due to the dangers.

----------


## major34

> I wouldn't advice anyone to take slin over the internet its just a personal choice due to the dangers.


i do underestand the Risk and still gathering infos reading books and stuffs for the next 4 months then to do a Short blast , but u know the infos on this is so limited and i guess over the whole internet it was only posted by you so you are the guy to ask about it and as u used it more than anyone i think u have a lot of infos and based on your articles a intelligent in BB.

just wanna know would taking slin during day 5-30 be an ok decicion ? does it effect the gains or simply not much diffrence?

as the effect of slin gonna reduce SHBG to a dramatic level i guess it would have synergetic effect on high dose of test i am planing to use but still so confused and lack a lot infos on this method .
thanks

----------


## marcus300

> i do underestand the Risk and still gathering infos reading books and stuffs for the next 4 months then to do a Short blast , but u know the infos on this is so limited and i guess over the whole internet it was only posted by you so you are the guy to ask about it and as u used it more than anyone i think u have a lot of infos and based on your articles a intelligent in BB.
> 
> just wanna know would taking slin during day 5-30 be an ok decicion ? does it effect the gains or simply not much diffrence?
> 
> as the effect of slin gonna reduce SHBG to a dramatic level i guess it would have synergetic effect on high dose of test i am planing to use but still so confused and lack a lot infos on this method .
> thanks


I'd stay clear of slin and concentrate on doing a pre cycle prime and designing the right short burst cycle for you. IMHO if you do this correctly the gains will be more than enough and using anything else wont give you anymore benefit unless its hgh.

----------


## major34

> I'd stay clear of slin and concentrate on doing a pre cycle prime and designing the right short burst cycle for you. IMHO if you do this correctly the gains will be more than enough and using anything else wont give you anymore benefit unless its hgh.



Alright , so 
i got some questions and would be glad if u could answer them  :Smilie: 

last cycle : 500 test 400 deca 
stats : 85kg -4years training - 25 ys old - already on trt at 180 mg enanthate weekly-15% bf
this blast cycle : 1250 test e , 100 mg anadrol - gonna prime for 7weeks
1.are the dosages ok ? gonna jab them in 2 injections.
2.got Aromasin on hand ...when to start it and how much should i run daily ?
3.i already got alot of issues with SHBG which my body converts alot of test to shbg....is 30 mg oral winstrol enough to lower it on blast or should i go for proviron at 50mg?
4.is 40%p 40%c 20% f ok macro for these 30days? and how many calories should i run per pound of body weight on this course ? ( moderatly active- office job 5hours a day-training 6days a week a hour each session +60 mins cardio weekly ) 
5.should i give up on cardio on these 30 days?


Sorry for taking your time.

----------


## tice1212

> Alright , so
> i got some questions and would be glad if u could answer them 
> 
> last cycle : 500 test 400 deca 
> stats : 85kg -4years training - 25 ys old - already on trt at 180 mg enanthate weekly-15% bf
> this blast cycle : 1250 test e , 100 mg anadrol - gonna prime for 7weeks
> 1.are the dosages ok ? gonna jab them in 2 injections.
> 2.got Aromasin on hand ...when to start it and how much should i run daily ?
> 3.i already got alot of issues with SHBG which my body converts alot of test to shbg....is 30 mg oral winstrol enough to lower it on blast or should i go for proviron at 50mg?
> ...


 Marcus clearly states in the first post that he will not be speaking about dosages on this open forum do to the amount of newbies on here. Also everyone of ur question have been answered in this thread. Its best to read the entire thread to understand the how, when, why and where of short bursting. Good luck bro

----------


## major34

Well man , searched for 10 times and also readed many times and got answer to many of my questions but these 5 question still seem unanswered to me. :Ccbur2: 

i mean nothing especial was told about it....like in diet phrase it was stated to go over maintenece but how far? cause due to high amount of gear metabolism gonna go higher than normal i guess

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## marcus300

Bump for the recent pm

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## SOL!D5NAK3

After my first cycle i knew that long cycles are crap and i did end mine after week 9 , they are good just for maintaining until the show. After 6-5 weeks the gaining will stop. Marcus can you give at least a hint about dosage? Is it 2 times more than a normal cycle say 500mg should be 1000mg? Plz??

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## Gorgos

Do you have to be a pro to use short cycles? Im tired of long cycles and I rather do more short ones than few long.

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## marcus300

> Do you have to be a pro to use short cycles? Im tired of long cycles and I rather do more short ones than few long.


Anyone can run a short cycle, doesn't matter what stage you are at.
Short heavy cycles should only be ran by advanced bodybuilders IMHO.
blood work dictates when you have recovered and if your ready to do another cycle.

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## Gorgos

> Anyone can run a short cycle, doesn't matter what stage you are at.
> Short heavy cycles should only be ran by advanced bodybuilders IMHO.
> blood work dictates when you have recovered and if your ready to do another cycle.


Thank you sir. Im able to do free bloodtest at work but Im not sure what to analyze. Are there any guides on this board?

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## cbass

As far as long esters go, what frequency of pinning do you recommend?

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## marcus300

> As far as long esters go, what frequency of pinning do you recommend?


If your not use to short burst cycles I would stick with short esters

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## marcus300

> Thank you sir. Im able to do free bloodtest at work but Im not sure what to analyze. Are there any guides on this board?


http://forums.steroid.com/before-you...k-article.html

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## fitguy

Can you give me a short cycle layout using test prop ,tbol and npp for a moderate user

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## tice1212

> Can you give me a short cycle layout using test prop ,tbol and npp for a moderate user


If u read his first statement in this thread he said he would not be posting dosages because the novice users would think it would be a good idea to run such high dosages. I'd pm him but must of the time when u as someone for a cycle lay out it cost money. Knowledge is not cheap either

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## marcus300

> Can you give me a short cycle layout using test prop ,tbol and npp for a moderate user


I know nothing about your cycle history,
from the sounds of it you don't need to be doing anything high dose,
ive looked over your threads and you been training for 5 yrs and hardly put any size on except increased bf, sounds like you need serious help in other departments than steroids imho,

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## fitguy

> I know nothing about your cycle history,
> from the sounds of it you don't need to be doing anything high dose,
> ive looked over your threads and you been training for 5 yrs and hardly put any size on except increased bf, sounds like you need serious help in other departments than steroids imho,


Sorry sir but i have been training much more than 5 years and i have put some decent lean mass over the years but thanks

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## marcus300

> Sorry sir but i have been training much more than 5 years and i have put some decent lean mass over the years but thanks


I know you have been training longer than 5 yrs but 5 yrs ago you posted this thread http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...deca-mass.html and quoted your stats as follows




> i am 175 pounds 7-8%body fat about 6 feet,i have ran test only before years ago and attempted a test dbol deca cycle which i stopped cold cause i believe gear was either fake or severly underdosed...i am looking for a cycle that bulks me the most ..thanks


 5yrs later you posted this thread http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...ycle-plan.html stating your stats 


> 6 feet tall 180-185 lbs 10-14 percent bodyfat


You have been cycling all these yrs or even if you haven't and you been natural which isn't the case you haven't put on any weight, all you done is increased your bf levels, there is a big problem.

I am not trying to have a go I am trying to show you the problem so you can put on some serious size because steroids aren't working for you.

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