# FITNESS and NUTRITION FORUM > WORKOUT AND TRAINING >  Free Training Advice-national certified trainer

## eatrainrest

[B][U][COLOR="Red"]*************SPYW

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## Big

can we critique the example? I don't like it lol

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## T-MOS

and your qualifications for this are??????


is that a typical split that you perform??

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## eatrainrest

i dont liek it either and actually dont run it, just posting a quick example BIG, but id be glad to critique your workout  :Wink:

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## T-MOS

> can we critique the example? I don't like it lol


once again, great minds think alike !!!

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## eatrainrest

2+years experience as a trainer

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## Big

> i dont liek it either and actually dont run it, just posting a quick example BIG, but id be glad to critique your workout


I was just teasing bro, I knew what you meant.

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## eatrainrest

> I was just teasing bro, I knew what you meant.


haha all good BIG, im the last to be thin skinned, i love what i do so why not offer it to more people who need help without paying me per hour for it?

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## Big

> haha all good BIG, im the last to be thin skinned, i love what i do so why not offer it to more people who need help without paying me per hour for it?


this will be especially useful to all the guys who seem to drastically overtrain, then wonder why they don't grow.

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## T-MOS

OK, i will give you a start

here is my current split

Monday- Legs
Tues- Chest
Wed- shoulders
Thurs- Back (including traps)
Fri- arms
Sat-off
Sun- off

usually do 3-4 exercises per body part and 4 sets each exercise first set being a light warm up, then 3 increasing weight sets to failure at 10 reps, 8 reps 6 reps
Legs get trained a little different

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## eatrainrest

> OK, i will give you a start
> 
> [B[/B]
> 
> here is my current split
> 
> Monday- Legs
> Tues- Chest*you will be utilizing anteroir delts as a secondary muscle group so on your shoulder day just work medial delts*
> Wed- shoulders*if your working posterior delts here it woudl not be ideal for your back day to do rowing movements, example would be low cable rows because your working your back musculature but stressing the rear delts, so try just working medial delts,*
> ...




just remember to try to keep your lower reps for after your warmup set, because you will be fatigued coming off 10, than 8. less is better, just make sure you r working at 100% intensity and never over, and with proper diet/sleep/hydration/cycle, you will be more than fine

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## T-MOS

Cool, thanks for the tips!!!

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## eatrainrest

> Cool, thanks for the tips!!!


np, piost here anytime if you have further ?'s

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## Toenails

Hi all, im 28, 5ft 4 and weigh 140lbs. I've lifted weights in the past but have never researched diet and taken it that serious. Anyway i've got a solid diet plan coming together which i will finish tommorow and post up (its between 3500-4000kcal 8 meals). i think imalmost there just dont wanna be missing out on any killer lifts or doing pointless exercise for bulking. Im working out from home and have access to a barbell, squat rack, dumbells, and bench. For abs i,ve been doing sit ups and crunches etc without any weight so need help on this as not sure what to do for abs whilst bulking.
Please feel free to chop and change and let us know what lifts have done wonders for you.
Also i do 3 x 8reps for each exercise

DAY1
EXERCISE CHEST 
Incline Bench Press 
Incline DB press 
Incline DB flys 
EXERCISE - BICEP 
Barbell curls 
Reverse Curls 
DB curls 

DAY2 
EXERCISE - THIGHS 
Squats 
Stiff legged deadlifts 
EXERCISE ABS 
?????????????? 
NEED HELP ON BEST AB EXERCISE FOR BULKING. UPPER, LOWER AND THE SIDES PLEASE 
?????????????? 

DAY3 
EXERCISE - BACK 
Deadlifts 
Bent rows 
1 arm Db rows 
EXERCISE - CALFS 
Standing calf raises 
Seated barbell calf raises 

DAY4 
EXERCISE - SHOULDERS 
Military Press Bar 
Arnold DB press 
Shrugs 
EXERCISE - TRICEP 
Skull crusher 
Overhead Tris 
Close grip bench 

REST DAY!!!!!!!!!! (THEN START WHOLE PROGRAMME AGAIN)

Thanks in advance people

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## ruffcute

When you refer to low intensity aerobics, what excersised do you mean.

And should I be doing them the same days as weights

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## ruffcute

and what particular exercises would be best for me for the the bottom of my chest to be more flat below nipples, is it chest exercises or working on the lats

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## eatrainrest

> When you refer to low intensity aerobics, what excersised do you mean.
> 
> And should I be doing them the same days as weights


anything low intensity, that can be any exercise, walking, eliptical, bike, 

yes i prefer AM cardio and immediately after workout, this is when your body is in a gylcogen depleted state.. refer to my threads i posted on cardio, HR, and others

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## eatrainrest

> and what particular exercises would be best for me for the the bottom of my chest to be more flat below nipples, is it chest exercises or working on the lats


diet would be your best answer.. if you want a specific critiuq post your workout with all ifo that i posted in first post

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## D7M

HIT or volume?

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## eatrainrest

be aware also it puts alot more stress on the joints and should never fully lock out

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## eatrainrest

> HIT or volume?



i recommend nothing over 100% intensity, ever, at anytime

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## D7M

> i recommend nothing over 100% intensity, ever, at anytime


 :Hmmmm: 

care to elaborate?

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## eatrainrest

ok so what have we learned?? do not train beyond failure..

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## Toenails

Thanks for your reply, i cant do lateral pulls as i do not have the equipment at home. any other suggestions for abs would be great.

so on the core lifts such as bench, deadlifts etc you say i should do my very max weight that i can manage to do 4 reps and then up the weight once i can do 6 reps perfectly.

but once i do the 4 max reps, shall i do 3 sets of the 4 max reps at this weight or different weight? just a bit unsure of how many sets?

also what exercise shall i do this on? im thinking Incline bench, barbell curls???, squats,military press... Not exactly sure. if possible could you highlight or write all the main lifts which i should do the max 4 rep lifts to from my programme.

Thanks again for your time mate.

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## eatrainrest

> Thanks for your reply, i cant do lateral pulls as i do not have the equipment at home. any other suggestions for abs would be great.*abs, never train everyday 3x a week at maximum. 3-4 sets.*
> 
> so on the core lifts such as bench, deadlifts etc you say i should do my very max weight that i can manage to do 4 reps and then up the weight once i can do 6 reps perfectly.*that would be correct using the overload training principle, just be advised of risk of injury. it will be essential to use strict form and not to lock out all the way*
> 
> but once i do the 4 max reps, shall i do 3 sets of the 4 max reps at this weight or different weight? just a bit unsure of how many sets?
> *i would only do 4 reps to your max for the 1st set in every exercise. maybe the first two in the first exercise.*
> 
> also what exercise shall i do this on? im thinking Incline bench, barbell curls???, squats,military press*not military press, im talking compound movements using conjunction of muscle groups, military press only works your anterior/medial delts. stick to any bench press/ squats/leg press motions in this 4 rep range*... Not exactly sure. if possible could you highlight or write all the main lifts which i should do the max 4 rep lifts to from my programme.
> 
> Thanks again for your time mate.


comments in bold

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## Hunter-S-Thompson

This is my current workout, im bulking and ive been pyramiding ie reps of about 10/12, 8, 6, 4.... what do you think? too much?

Sunday chest and abs 

warmup 2 sets of push ups 18 reps each
dumbell incline bench press 4 sets 
dumbell flat bench 4 sets
hammer strength bench machine 3 sets
dumbell incline flys 4 sets

hanging leg raises 3 sets
crunches 3 sets
sit ups 3 sets

cardio 20/30 mins elliptical 65% max

Monday back

warmup on lat pull down 2 sets
lat pull downs 4 sets
deadlifts 4 sets
bent over dumbell rows 3 sets
seated cable rows 3 sets
pull ups/hyperextentions superset 3 sets

Tuesday off


Wednesday shoulders traps and abs

warmup 2 sets of dumbell press 
dumbell press 4 sets
upright rows 2 sets
front deltoid raises 3 sets
rear deltoid raises 3 sets

shrugs 4 sets

crunch machine 3 sets
sit up machine with weights 3 sets
hanging leg raises 3 sets

cardio 20/30 mins elliptical 65%

Thursday legs

warmup 2 sets of squats
squats 4 sets
leg raises 4 sets
leg curls 4 sets
calf raises 4 sets (on resistance machine)
leg press (whenever i can handle it if i dont blast my quads too much from squatting) 2-3 sets


Friday biceps and triceps

warmup 2 sets of dumbell curls
dumbell curls 3 sets
barbell curls 3 sets
chin ups 3 sets
hammer curls 3 sets

wrist curls 4 sets

warmup tri's with 2 sets of dips (can do 16 then 14 usually)
then 3 more sets of dips
tricep pressdowns 3 sets
nosebreakers/skullcrushers 3 sets
close grip bench press 3 sets 

cardio 20/30 mins treadmill 65%

Saturday off

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## eatrainrest

> This is my current workout, im bulking and ive been pyramiding ie reps of about 10/12, 8, 6, 4.... what do you think? too much?
> 
> Sunday chest and abs 
> 
> warmup 2 sets of push ups 18 reps each
> dumbell incline bench press 4 sets 
> dumbell flat bench 4 sets
> hammer strength bench machine 3 sets
> dumbell incline flys 4 sets
> ...


comments in bold, i like the split alot just make appropriate changes and see how it works

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## Toenails

Thanks again.
Def going to do the 4 rep max thing. Was thinking about doing this but was not to sure what lifts to do this on, thanks for clearing that up with me.

so does this sound good to you. example bench press

1 X 4 reps of max weight (lets say 200lbs)
2 or 3 x 8 reps of heavyish weight (lets say 180)

then next time i do chest try to get the 6 perfect reps of 200lbs. once i reach this its time to up the weight.

cheers

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## eatrainrest

> Thanks again.
> Def going to do the 4 rep max thing. Was thinking about doing this but was not to sure what lifts to do this on, thanks for clearing that up with me.
> 
> so does this sound good to you. example bench press
> 
> 1 X 4 reps of max weight (lets say 200lbs)
> 2 or 3 x 8 reps of heavyish weight (lets say 180)
> 
> then next time i do chest try to get the 6 perfect reps of 200lbs. once i reach this its time to up the weight.
> ...


yep that would be the right principle. also once in a whie throw in soem 12 reps to your max to hit some diff muscle fibers and confuse the body, you will eventaully plateua andwill havfe to switch up routine, etc. my intro to exercise link will help you in that regards

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## Hunter-S-Thompson

> comments in bold, i like the split alot just make appropriate changes and see how it works


ok cool thanks for looking it over much appreciated, ill switch things around a bit as suggested and see how it works out!

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## eatrainrest

> ok cool thanks for looking it over much appreciated, ill switch things around a bit as suggested and see how it works out!


yep the biggest key is swithcin up the routine.. im a huge fan of ronnies slingshot method... great routine, but youll still need to implement your own splits, rep ranges, exercises, etc. keep me updated!

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## Hunter-S-Thompson

> yep the biggest key is swithcin up the routine.. im a huge fan of ronnies slingshot method... great routine, but youll still need to implement your own splits, rep ranges, exercises, etc. keep me updated!


yea i read through that slingshot method (ok i didnt read the WHOLE thing yet, its looooong) but im thinking of giving it a go once im done with my current cycle and PCT, from what ive read so far it seems pretty interesting, but yea ill keep u updated thanks again

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## eatrainrest

slingshot is a great system because it will fool the body to adapting, which is key. some people though will still do during their reload 12 sets of biceps, i talked to ronnie about that and we concluded that 8-10 during that reload is more preferable, but you will always need a critique and a proposed weekly split and im here to critique it al and advise you. ronnies system is great, BUT you will have up/downgrade sets accoringly to what you do now/goals..etc...

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## collar

intensity does vary on the person, some people that train their 100% is really no where near 100%

just their pain threshold is not so high, so they pressume thats their 100%

i personal train and have seen this many times.

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## jbm

Hey bro! I'm doing supersets now for 4 weeks doing 4 sets each 12-10-8-6...
Any critique! I'm doing mon to fri.. sat and sun off.

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## remotely queued

hey guys i have a couple questions!!

thoughts on soy protein?

training when you're tired? (ex: work/school ran late 4-5 hours sleep previous night) should i just skip the workout or take some redline and buck up?

ab training, is it necessary during a bulking phase? usually i skip it.

workout on an empty stomach? most of the supplements i've taken say to take on an empty stomach. should i really wait 3 hours after a meal to workout? my goal is to gain weight.

thanks for any help ahead of time!!

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## eatrainrest

> Hey bro! I'm doing supersets now for 4 weeks doing 4 sets each 12-10-8-6...
> Any critique! I'm doing mon to fri.. sat and sun off.


im not a big fan of supersets... negatives yes.. check this out

"muscles are normally 30% stronger when practicing negative training"

as ronnie says to, there is no solid proof stating that supersets works, but they do strain the joints, so i dont recommend them. stick to straight sets using the overload training principle at 100 percent, maybe a negative on the last set of each muscle group

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## eatrainrest

comments

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## eatrainrest

> intensity does vary on the person, some people that train their 100% is really no where near 100%
> 
> just their pain threshold is not so high, so they pressume thats their 100%
> 
> i personal train and have seen this many times.


yes alot of it is mental. your true 100 percent is giving it your all on every set (which i do), where you can NOT get one more rep. if you need assistance for a rep this is considered over 100% and is not recommended

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## FireGuy

> im not a big fan of supersets... negatives yes.. check this out
> 
> "muscles are normally 30% stronger when practicing negative training"
> 
> as ronnie says to, there is no solid proof stating that supersets works, *but they do strain the joints*, so i dont recommend them. stick to straight sets using the overload training principle at 100 percent, maybe a negative on the last set of each muscle group


Can you please elaborate on how doing supersets strain joints.

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## eatrainrest

sure fire

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## FireGuy

Ok, maybe I am slow this morning but how does supersetting opposing muscle groups have any application to your statement?

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## FireGuy

The more I read your statement I think where we differ is I dont feel a superset is a "beyond failure" technique.

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## eatrainrest

> Ok, maybe I am slow this morning but how does supersetting opposing muscle groups have any application to your statement?


well good afternoon from jersey! i dont think were on the same page, i actually love supersetting antagonistic muscle such as muscle and back for many reasons. my example would be not to do this...

preacher curls 8 times to your max
drop setting and doing another set of 8 to failure

*this would be the example of what i meant

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## eatrainrest

> The more I read your statement I think where we differ is I dont feel a superset is a "beyond failure" technique.


ahha there we go i knew we were mixing up somewhere

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## FireGuy

Pre-contest I love supersetting (not drop setting) same muscle groups as well. DB presses supersetted with cable fly's (chest). Overhead DB Extensions supersetted with rope pressdowns (triceps). Even in this regard I would not consider this "beyond failure" training.

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## eatrainrest

[QUOTE=FireGuy1;4605819]Pre-contest I love supersetting

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## xnotoriousx

Hell, why not? Here's my work week

Everything is done on a 12-10-8/failure format

mon - Legs
squats
leg press
stiff deads or leg curls
leg extentions

Tu - Chest/tris (switch these up every 2 weeks)
Inc db press
flat db fly
flat bb press
pullovers 

Dips 
rope pull-downs 
skull crushers

wed - Off

Thurs - Back/bis (deads and bent rows are staple, but the others get switched every 2 weeks)
Deads
Bent over bb rows 
pull ups
1 arm db rows
wide-grip cable rows

Concentration curls (1 set only to failure then to negative failure)
Db curls
incline db curls
hammer curls


Fri - shoulders
Seated db press
standing bb press
front raise 
side raise or cable cross

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## xnotoriousx

For the most part I do a smooth controlled negative motion with a slight pause then a strong positive. Once every 2-3 weeks i'll do a faster rep motion but I am very big on form and intensity 

Most of the time i'm on 45-60 sec rest times, when doing deads or squats I do about 2 min rest times.

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## xnotoriousx

I have a few questions after you get done looking at my workout.

1 is it good to work out your most desired muscle the day after legs day? I've been told after leg day you get a test boost. Is this true?

2 Should you ever go for a 1 or 2 rep max on movements such as bench-press, squat, deadlift?

3 Should straps be used when working out back to get more weight?

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## eatrainrest

these are just some but for more effective i need set ranges

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## eatrainrest

abcds

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## eatrainrest

*straps would be use to assist you in your grip when doing shrugs, etcc.*

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## xnotoriousx

Ok, i've been doing chest/tris, back/bis, legs, shoulders 2on 1 off split for as long as I can remember. I see that you're not a fan of this split. Could you lay out a more ideal week split? Being that i've been running this split for about 4 months now, maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to switch it up. 

Also you asked how many sets on some of the exercises and my goals..i'm 25 6'3 195lbs My goals are to gain very lean mass. My diet is around 3000 cals right now and i'm very inactive other then workout/cardio (Laid-off atm) I always do 3 sets on everything 12-10-8orfailure on last. On big movements, I'll do a very light warm-up set.

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## eatrainrest

> Ok, i've been doing chest/tris, back/bis, legs, shoulders 2on 1 off split for as long as I can remember. I see that you're not a fan of this split. Could you lay out a more ideal week split? Being that i've been running this split for about 4 months now, maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to switch it up. 
> 
> Also you asked how many sets on some of the exercises and my goals..i'm 25 6'3 195lbs My goals are to gain very lean mass. My diet is around 3000 cals right now and i'm very inactive other then workout/cardio (Laid-off atm) I always do 3 sets on everything 12-10-8orfailure on last. On big movements, I'll do a very light warm-up set.


sure, refer to my intro to exercise thread in my first post, there are examples of workout threads and my suggested rep ranges/total sets are also in first post.. let me know if you have further ?;s

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## xnotoriousx

ok i'll give a peak at what you have wrote up.

I have a progress thread for the last few months of my training, if you want to look over and give advice on any aspect, by all means, please do. Thanks for your contribution, take care.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=381408

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## PittBoy

First....thanks for offering help!!

I have been running a push pull 4 day split for quite a while but am looking for a change.

An example workout would be:

Mon-Shoulders. 

Front raises 3-4 sets 10-12
Lateral raises 3-4 sets 10-12
upright row 3-4 sets 10-12
reverse pec deck 3-4 sets 10-12

Tuesday-Chest/Tris

Incline bench 3 sets 8-12
Flat bench 3 sets 8-12
Incline Flys 3 sets 8-12
Pec Deck 3 sets 8-12

Dips 4 sets of 15
push downs 3 sets of 8-12
may throw in a few sets of overhead extensions

end with 3 sets of pushups to failure

Weds-Off

Thursday-Legs

Squats 4 sets of 6-12
Leg Press 3 sets of 8-12
Leg Extensions 3 sets of 10-15
Leg curls 3 sets of 10-15
Standing calf raises 3 sets of 15-25(try to get 25)
Seated calf raises 3 sets of 15-20

Friday Back/Bis

Wide Grip pullups 4-5 sets to failure
Wide grip pull down 3 sets 8-12
Seated row 3 sets of 8-12
Dumbell Row 3 sets of 8-12

Olympic Bar curls 3 sets of 8-12
Gym Heros 3 sets of 8-12
Hammer curls 3 sets of 8-12 

That would be a pretty good example of what I've been doing for quite a while. I change things up as far as excercises every couple of months.

Looking for something new. Overall I'm happy with my progress but as always my legs are lagging(genetically a weak point in the whole family) especially my calves.

Any suggestions are much appreciated.

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## eatrainrest

> First....thanks for offering help!!
> 
> I have been running a push pull 4 day split for quite a while but am looking for a change.
> *yes as you read in my previous posts, i am not a fan of pussh/pull when combining primary and secondary such as back and bis*
> 
> An example workout would be:
> 
> Mon-Shoulders. 
> 
> ...


those are my suggestions i would refer to my intro to exercise thread and check out some different splits there. come back with a proposed split and work in the 4 rep max range with no assisted help using overload training principle. refer to the suggested sets i posted here, as well as my first post. follow up

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## PittBoy

> those are my suggestions i would refer to my intro to exercise thread and check out some different splits there. come back with a proposed split and work in the 4 rep max range with no assisted help using overload training principle. refer to the suggested sets i posted here, as well as my first post. follow up


Thanks man. I'll put something together and post either today or tomorrow.

Appreciate the time you're taking to help here.

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## Awesome_Shiloh

new to the extensiveness and complication of training. you told me in another thread i was overtraining, and i was reading this thread---and right about now everyone of you are gonna laugh at me, but i need to learn, i don't quite grasp this concept of overload training, and doing drop-sets. i was in highschool football when i last had anyone teaching me proper lifting techniques, but we were told and had 1 day a week where all our lifts were supersets, our other two lift days were broken in 2, 1 day legs and the other upper body, plus of course regular practice 5 days a week. and honestly it seemed the more lifts we did set wise and longer we stayed in the gym the more the coach was happy and we were always the one's who got more play time. 1/2 of us were also taking andro-stackers, and the coach knew, but there was no rule against it i highschool back then, anyway sorry about rambling, it's just i was taught you'd feel it if you are overtraining, but after reading this i'm worried about what kind of damage i've done to my muscles? or do you think my muscles could have adapted to this since it's how i've always trained? i'm the one that was doing about 20 sets per group, i know, thats bad

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## Awesome_Shiloh

nevermind i was thinking dropsets were something else, i do that with my push-ups, but the overload training, still foggy

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## eatrainrest

> new to the extensiveness and complication of training. you told me in another thread i was overtraining, and i was reading this thread---and right about now everyone of you are gonna laugh at me, but i need to learn, i don't quite grasp this concept of overload training, and doing drop-sets. i was in highschool football when i last had anyone teaching me proper lifting techniques, but we were told and had 1 day a week where all our lifts were supersets, our other two lift days were broken in 2, 1 day legs and the other upper body, plus of course regular practice 5 days a week. and honestly it seemed the more lifts we did set wise and longer we stayed in the gym the more the coach was happy and we were always the one's who got more play time. 1/2 of us were also taking andro-stackers, and the coach knew, but there was no rule against it i highschool back then, anyway sorry about rambling, it's just i was taught you'd feel it if you are overtraining, but after reading this i'm worried about what kind of damage i've done to my muscles? or do you think my muscles could have adapted to this since it's how i've always trained? i'm the one that was doing about 20 sets per group, i know, thats bad


well never apologize, i will always be willing to share my knowledge and help someone learn, i also didnt know. i posted up signs of overtraining but the body does nt need excessive sets (i dont know how many your doing per body part). i also played football and the workouts are histerical, there geared aroundt he bench press, squat, and power cleans. dont go buy those clowns tot hem more is better but there trained to coach football not exercise..

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## Awesome_Shiloh

i was just wondering if this is why i don't gain weight. i don't have a problem with ever plateauing on my lifts, they've always increasedevery couple of weeks, however my weight is another story. since highschool i've always been on a doc recommended diet of 5000 cal a day and my weight in grams of protein, but nothing happens. yes i get stronger but have never weighed more than 165 ( but that was while incarcerated and all i did was eat, exercise, and sleep ) anyway do you think my overtraining is inhibiting my gains in weight? should i not worry about gains in weight as long as i'm seeing gains in my lifts? i mean i can go in and do 8-10 reps with 85lb DB's on an incline press, and yes good form not slinging, if i make it to the gym i grab one of there provided spotters, lol. just don't pick there brain since this is probably their part-time job. will weight gains eventually come will i always be a mighty mouse?

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## eatrainrest

> i was just wondering if this is why i don't gain weight. i don't have a problem with ever plateauing on my lifts, they've always increasedevery couple of weeks, however my weight is another story. since highschool i've always been on a doc recommended diet of 5000 cal a day and my weight in grams of protein, but nothing happens. yes i get stronger but have never weighed more than 165 ( but that was while incarcerated and all i did was eat, exercise, and sleep ) anyway *do you think my overtraining is inhibiting my gains in weight?* should i not worry about gains in weight as long as i'm seeing gains in my lifts? i mean i can go in and do 8-10 reps with 85lb DB's on an incline press, and yes good form not slinging, if i make it to the gym i grab one of there provided spotters, lol. just don't pick there brain since this is probably their part-time job. will weight gains eventually come will i always be a mighty mouse?


absolutely, this is a huge factor in overtraining as its one of the priomary factors i have listed in my first post. worry about good form and proper breathing techniques and the weights will come along with it. your body also adapts to a routine somwhere aroudn 8-12.. arguable topic. check my thread out intro to exercise, and post diet in diet forum for critique.. the body willl adapt to a diet as well.

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## Awesome_Shiloh

what heading is that thread under?

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## eatrainrest

> what heading is that thread under?


these are all the threads i made, if you havent watched them already

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=384395 BMR CALCULATIONS

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=384553 CARDIO AND HR

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=384006 INTRO TO EXERCISE

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=384009 PHYSIOLOGY

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## PittBoy

Ok....read your excercise 101 thread.

So you are recommending something like this?

Mon- Chest/Bis

Incline-3 sets of 4
Flat---3 sets of 4
Incline Fly-2 sets of 4

Olympic Curls 3 sets of 4
some form of iso-3 sets of 4

Tuesday Legs/Calves/Traps

Squat-4 sets of 4
Leg Press-3 sets of 4
Leg Extension-3 sets of 4
Leg Curl-----3 sets of 4
Standing Calf Raise--2 sets(should I stay in high reps for calves)
Seated Calf Raise----2 sets...same

Shrugs-3 sets of ? (4 on traps too)

Wed-Off

Thurs- Shoulders/Tris

Lateral Raises-3 sets of 4
Upright Row---3 sets of 4

Push Downs---4 sets of 4
Overhead extension-4sets of 4

Friday Back/Calves

My problem with doing back with a 4 rep max at my gym is I can do the whole stacks in the 10-12 rep range with good form.....so what do I do here?.....Should I stay away from cables and do only bent over rows, tbar rows etc in the 4 rep max? How about on pullups?...Do I start to go weighted for 4?

Calves....should I repeat the previous calve workout or do something different?

Is this setup something like you're talking about? I know less is better but shoulder/Tri day looks real light.

Thanks again for the input....I know I always have room for improvement.

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## eatrainrest

[QUOTE=PittBoy;4611039]Ok....read your excercise 101 thread.

So you are recommending something like this?

Mon- Chest/Bis

Incline-3 sets of 4
Flat---3 sets of 4
Incline Fly-2 sets of 4
*i would do the last set in the 8-10 range*

Olympic Curls 3 sets of 4
some form of iso-3 sets of 4
*no no no non.. in my first post i mentioned about the overload training principle in heavier rep ranges TO NEVER USE IN ISOLATION MOVEMENTS.. stick to 6-8 reps if your looking for strength.. 4 is putting too much stress*

Tuesday Legs/Calves/Traps

Squat-4 sets of 4
Leg Press-3 sets of 4
Leg Extension-3 sets of 4*stick to 8 reps here*
Leg Curl-----3 sets of 4*again this is isolation, stick to 8 reps for strength.. first 2 sets.*
Standing Calf Raise--2 sets(should I stay in high reps for calves)
Seated Calf Raise----2 sets...same
*calves 8-12 reps*

*this is good, i would add in 3 straight leg deadlifts in the 6 rep range, and last set 12 reps max*
Shrugs-3 sets of ? (4 on traps too)
*no do 6-8 reps on shrugs*

Wed-Off

Thurs- Shoulders/Tris

Lateral Raises-3 sets of 4*8 reps*
Upright Row---3 sets of 4 *6-8 reps*


Push Downs---4 sets of 4
Overhead extension-4sets of 4*i developed tendonitis from doing this too hheavy*

*again, no heavy reps on isolation movements, and cut triceps to 6 sets and 6-8 reps*
Friday Back/Calves

My problem with doing back with a 4 rep max at my gym is I can do the whole stacks in the 10-12 rep range with good form.....so what do I do here?.....Should I stay away from cables and do only bent over rows, tbar rows etc in the 4 rep max? How about on pullups?...Do I start to go weighted for 4?
*what exercise are you talking about that you can rack it at 4 rep max*

Calves....should I repeat the previous calve workout or do something different?
*do 3-4 sets of calves 2 x per week IMO*

Is this setup something like you're talking about? I know less is better but shoulder/Tri day looks real light.
*6 sets medial delts 6 sets triceps is fine.. i also do bis on this day*

Thanks again for the input....I know I always have room for improvement.[/QUOTE]

be very careful with the rep ranges. keep to compound movements using the 4 rep max rep range, and the last set throw in 12 reps max for red fast twitch fibers and some stamina. 

basically for isolation stick to 6-8 reps
compound movements (first 2 sets)- 4 reps, then 12 reps

*use this as a general guidline..
the split in itself is aright.. WHERE IS FRIDAY?

----------


## eatrainrest

i make frequent edits on the first post based on the frequent questions i get so always refer back!

----------


## PittBoy

How's this?

Mon- Chest/Bis

Incline-3 sets of 4(last set 12)
Flat---3 sets of 4(last set 12)
Incline Fly-2 sets of 8-10


Olympic Curls 3 sets of 4(last set 12)
some form of iso-3 sets of 6-8


Tuesday Legs/Calves/Traps

Squat-4 sets of 4(last set 12)
Leg Press-3 sets of 4(last set 12)
Leg Extension-3 sets of 8
Leg Curl-----3 sets of 8
Straight Leg deads 3 sets of 6(last set 12)

Standing Calves--2 sets 8-12
Seated Calves----2 sets. 8-12



Shrugs-3 sets of 6-8


Wed-Off

Thurs- Shoulders/Tris

Lateral Raises-3 sets of 8
Upright Row---3 sets of 6-8


Push Downs---4 sets of 6-8
Overhead extension-4sets of 6-8

Friday Back/Calves

Wide Grip Pullups 4 sets max
Tbar Row 3 sets 4(last set 12)
DB Row 3 sets of 6-8

Standing Calves 2 sets of 8-12
Seated Calves 2 sets of 8-12 


The back excercies I was talking about being able to do stacks on were pull downs and seated rows. Their cable machine doesn't have a lot of weight on their stacks.

----------


## eatrainrest

> How's this?
> 
> Mon- Chest/Bis
> 
> Incline-3 sets of 4(last set 12)
> Flat---3 sets of 4(last set 12)
> Incline Fly-2 sets of 8-10
> *good*
> 
> ...


this looks good, letme know how much stronger you got just from changing up rep ranges!

----------


## PittBoy

> this looks good, letme know how much stronger you got just from changing up rep ranges!


Will do man. Thanks again. I'll run this for 8 weeks and let ya know.

----------


## eatrainrest

bumpp im bored

----------


## lunchman

This is my training split

Monday: chest/triceps
Tuesday: back/biceps
Wednesday: off
Thursday: shoulders/abs
Friday: legs

Not includint warm up, 3 warm upsets - 4 on the bigger compound movements. rep range 8-12 for most. higher for abs. cardio after each weight session at least 20mins alternating on bike, crosstrainer, rower ( on back days ), treadmill.

----------


## lunchman

> THIS ABOUT SUMS IT UP...
> "the effect of intensity on the muscle tissue can be likened to breaking and repairing a pencil lead; by constantly training beyong failure, you are taking a hammer and shmashing the actin and myosin (pencil lead) amking it very difficult, if not impossible to repair.
> 
> do not train beyond failure or performing forced reps, as this may disallow the performance of the same number of reps set to set"
> 
> ok so what have we learned?? do not train beyond failure.. instead use the overload training principle. for example, if you are training for strength and size 4-6 rep range will maximize white twitch muscle fibers. by choosing a weight you can do 100% INTENSITY 4 good controlled reps, once you hit 6 reps of that weight advance the weight. never go beyond failure, regardless of what anyone says. the body was not meant to train beyond failure
> 
> 
> white twitch mucsle fibers (type 2b), yes sprintres use alot of white twitch muscle fibers hence, short bursts. white twitch muscle fibers have very few capillaries and because of the absense of this nutrient rich blood supply, they cannot function for very long periods of times as opposed to red fast and red slow fibers.
> ...


hey just making sure i got it right, your saying dont go into muscle failure by doing forced reps with a trainer and stuff? instead use the over load training principle training in the 4-6rep range with good form, once u can complete 6 reps then u up the weight right?.... and this is good muscle growth? just curious cause this could be a great new way of training for me.. and can use it this arvo at the gym iam training back and bi's

----------


## InsaneInTheMembrane

Hey Broda,

This is my latest split; would like to see your feedback:


*Mon: Chest + Abs*

Bench Press / DB Bench Press 3 sets (6-8 reps set 1 ; 8-12 reps sets 2,3)
Incline DB / BB 3 sets (same rep structure as above)
DB/Pec Dec/Cable Flies 3 sets (all 8-12 rep range)

Lower Ab Exercise (leg raise, decline sit ups etc...) 3 sets (10-15 reps)
Ab Exercise (crunches of various sorts wk to wk) 3 sets (10-15 reps)

*Tue: Back/Traps and Calves*

Deadlifts (EOW) 3 sets (all 6-10 rep range) / Chin Ups (non deadlift week) 3 sets (8-10 rep range)
Lat Pull downs 3 sets (8-12 rep range)
Bent Over BB Rows / Reverse Grip BB Rows 3 sets (8-10 rep range)
DB Rows / Narrow Grip Cable Rows / T-Bar Rows 3 sets (set 1, 6-8 reps : sets 2 n 3, 8-12 reps)
BB Shrugs 3 sets (10-15 rep range)

Donkey Calf raises 3 sets (20-30 rep range)
Standing Calf raises 3 sets (15 - 29 rep range)

*Wed: Biceps, Hamstrings and Abs*

BB/DB Bicep Curls 3 sets (6-10 rep range)
Preachers / Cable Dbl Bicep Curls 3 sets (10-12 rep range)
DB/Rope Hammers 3 sets (8 - 12 rep range)

SLDLs 3 sets (on non-deadlift wks) (8-10 reps) / Seated Leg Curls 3 sets ( 8 - 12 reps)
Lying Leg Curls 3 sets (8-12 reps)

Oblique/Serratus exercises (many to choose from like side crunches etc..) 4 sets (10 - 15 reps)

*Thu: Off*

*Fri: Shoulders and Triceps*

Smith/DB/BB Milit. Presses 3 sets (set 1, 6-8 reps : set 2 n 3, 8 - 10 reps)
Machine/DB Lateral raises 3 sets (8-12 rep range)
Narrow Grip/Shoulder width/ Wide Grip Upright rows 3 sets (8-12 rep range)
Reverse Pec Decs 3 sets (12-15 reps)

Weighted Dips 2 sets (set 1, 6 reps: set 2, 8-12 reps)
Machine/DB Tricep Extensions 2 sets (8-10 reps)
Rope Pulldown 2 sets (8-12 reps)

*Sat: Quad and Calves*

Squats / Leg Presses / Hack Squats 4 sets (set 1 n 2, 6-8 reps: set 3 n 4 8-12 reps)
Leg Extensions 3 sets (8-12 reps)
Lunges 3 sets (8-12 reps per foot)

Seated Calf raises (heavy) 4 sets (6-10 reps)

*Sun: Off*

- all "/" denotes "or" since I change exercises week to week
- This is a 5-day split so I can focus more on the lagging bodyparts
- Lagging parts are: Hams, Quads (sweep), Calves, Abs, Rear Delts
- Strong parts: side/front delts, chest, back, bis
- Injury background: Chronic myofacial pain in the right forearm (the sliver of muscle running under the brachio-radialis) that gets aggravated with lat pulldowns and bicep movements in general

Thanx in advance for looking this over:
all advice appreciated

cheers

----------


## eatrainrest

> hey just making sure i got it right, your saying dont go into muscle failure by doing forced reps with a trainer and stuff? instead use the over load training principle training in the 4-6rep range with good form, once u can complete 6 reps then u up the weight right?.... and this is good muscle growth? just curious cause this could be a great new way of training for me.. and can use it this arvo at the gym iam training back and bi's


forced reps increase the chances of injury which is what you want to elminate, ive debated with many people on the board about it, and i find NO reason why people cannot grow with doing 100 percent intensity using the overload training principle, why youd want to train beyond failure is literally beyond me, the example you cited above is a pretty good reason why. it can also lead to overtraining, CNS burnout, tendonitis, joint issues, etc.

you have to be careful with the 4-6 rep range using overload. you will undoubtedly see strength gains of course given other factors liek diet, sleep, etc, BUT thsi rep range should maximize white twitch muscle fibers. i mentioned in the first post, DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT, USE 4-6 reps with isolation movements for smalle rmuscle groups liek skull crushers, preacher curls, etc. stick this rep range for the 1st and maybe 2nd set of your COMPOUND exercise like the bench, leg press, squat, and be advised that form is essential. there is more of a risk of injury in this rep range as well, thats why i only recommend it for compound movements and the 1st maybe 2 sets of each COMPOUND exercise.

im not a fan of back bis as mentioned in the first post, i think you should read it again.

----------


## eatrainrest

> Hey Broda,
> 
> This is my latest split; would like to see your feedback:
> 
> 
> *Mon: Chest + Abs*
> 
> Bench Press / DB Bench Press 3 sets (6-8 reps set 1 ; 8-12 reps sets 2,3)
> Incline DB / BB 3 sets (same rep structure as above)
> ...


i really like the split and the exercises for the most part, im confused how you layed out the format and would like for you to list each body part and how many total sets per each, as asked from my very first post, ill have more input after that.

----------


## InsaneInTheMembrane

^^^ hey bro; thank you so much for your feedback... much appreciate it! 

-sorry abt the confusion! when I write "DB Rows / Narrow Grip Cable Rows / T-Bar Rows 3 sets" or "SLDLs 3 sets (on non-deadlift wks) (8-10 reps) / Seated Leg Curls 3 sets ( 8 - 12 reps)" I mean I choose ONE of those and do them for 3 sets ... Actually maybe it was better i just wrote "Rows and their variations" 

- so far, total sets per bodypart are:

Chest 9 sets
Back 12 (excluding traps)
Bicep 9 (including hammers)
Shoulders 12
Triceps 6
Hams 6
Quads 10 

- lookin' at it, you're right, 12 sets for delts and back may be a tad too excessive
- hope this helps clear things up

cheers mate,
Insane

----------


## eatrainrest

> ^^^ hey bro; thank you so much for your feedback... much appreciate it! 
> 
> -sorry abt the confusion! when I write "DB Rows / Narrow Grip Cable Rows / T-Bar Rows 3 sets" or "SLDLs 3 sets (on non-deadlift wks) (8-10 reps) / Seated Leg Curls 3 sets ( 8 - 12 reps)" I mean I choose ONE of those and do them for 3 sets ... Actually maybe it was better i just wrote "Rows and their variations" 
> 
> - so far, total sets per bodypart are:
> 
> Chest 9 sets
> Back 12 (excluding traps)*if this includes deads its good, if not and its 12 sets for upper back musculature, id chop to 8-10 sets*
> Bicep 9 (including hammers)*i would cut this down to 5-6 and work with higher intensity, aka lower reps*
> ...


i would make those changes tot he rep ranges and definately apply the overload training principle in whatever rep range you work as long as its 3 reps

example-
8-10 reps
12-15 reps
4-6
*once you get 10,15,or 6 solid perfect form reps with that weight bump it up until you only get 8,12, and 4. 

otherwise i like the split and just minor tweaks i would make keep up the hard work!

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## InsaneInTheMembrane

^^ Hey bro, thanx for the speedy feedback

will definitely incorporate your pointers/tweaks... last thing I wanna do is overtrain!!!

cheers
Insane

----------


## s00noma

Overall goal is size/strength. Trying to stick with a 3 day split for now, but might change it up to 4 in the future. Any suggestions welcome. I want to make sure im not overtraining/undertraining. All sets are trying to be kept in the 8-12 rep range.

MON - Chest / Tri
Flat DB Bench x 4
Incl BB Bench x 3
Incl DB Fly x 3
Dips x 4
Rope Pulldown x 3
Overhead Tri Extension x 3

WED - Back / Bi
Version 1
Deadlift x 4
Lat Pulldown x 4
Seated Cable Row x 4
Standing BB Curl x 3
Standing DB Hammer x 3
Seated Preacher Machine x 3

Version 2
Pull Up x 4
Bent Over BB Row x 4
Weighted Back Extension x 4
and 3 bicep exercises x 3

Im wondering if i should alternate between version 1 and 2 from week to week as I have heard/read that doing deadlift every week may be a bit harsh. Or should i stick to all the same exercises from week to week for about 3 months and then switch it up so i can make sure i am pushing more weight/reps?

FRI - Legs / Shoulders
Squat x 4
To be determined x 4
Calf Raises x 4
Military Press x 3
To be determined x 3
Shrugs x 3

I havent yet put together my full leg/shoulder workout. Any exercise suggestions??

Again, should i be alternating exercises from week to week? Or would it be alright to do the same ones for about 3 months and then switch it up, that way i can track gains?

----------


## eatrainrest

> Overall goal is size/strength. Trying to stick with a 3 day split for now, but might change it up to 4 in the future. Any suggestions welcome. I want to make sure im not overtraining/undertraining. All sets are trying to be kept in the 8-12 rep range.
> *you should apply the overlaod training principle as mentioned in the 1st post in the 4 rep max range following protocol listed, in my 1st post*
> 
> MON - Chest / Tri
> Flat DB Bench x 4
> Incl BB Bench x 3
> Incl DB Fly x 3
> Dips x 4*are you doing dips focusing on chest or tris? stick to my recommended chart using overlaod training principle*
> Rope Pulldown x 3
> ...


stick to a routine for 8-12 weeks or until results taper, then switch it up.. alot of this is answered in my first post and the links posted under them.. i suggest you read them

----------


## s00noma

> stick to a routine for 8-12 weeks or until results taper, then switch it up.. alot of this is answered in my first post and the links posted under them.. i suggest you read them


First of all, thanks. I read through the first post, but kinda wanted a hands on answer to the routine i posted. Thanks for reading through it and answering specifics. 

So you think it would be alright to deadlift on a weekly basis, or do the version 1/version 2 alternating weeks?

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## eatrainrest

well, the deadlifts i would do once every week, but that would be focusing more on hamstrings for me as i do stiff leg deadlifts (slight knee bend). on back days i would focus on back width/thickeness for upper back musculature and save the deads for hamstrings (stiff leg)

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## eatrainrest

ill be on vacation for a couple days for my birthday, post up if you have any questions i will look forward to answering them when i come back!

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## bmit

here's mine ( I am on hrt of 320 mg/wk test and 240 mg/wk deca )

After a proper warmup all sets done to failure (no post- failure training). I like high intensity and low volume. Heaviest sets first in 4-6 rep range and then going to lower weights and higher reps to finish with a weight i can do about 10-12 times. rest 2-3 minutes for large bodyparts in between sets and 1-2 minutes for smaller body parts. Will do 2 or 3 days in a row of weights then rest day depending on how i feel. 

1)Back and Legs
3-4 sets rows
3-4 sets pulldowns
3 sets seated calves
3 sets standing calves

2) Chest / Bis
4 sets presses
2-3 sets of cables or flyes (higher reps range than on my presses)
3 sets dumbell hammercurls or curls
2-3 sets bar - preacher or standing (this excercise i go higher reps range)

3)rest 

4)shoulders/traps/tris
3 sets presses
3 sets medial delts
2 sets posterior delts
3 sets shrugs
3 sets pressdowns
3 sets skullcrushers (higer rep range than pressdowns)

5) rest

REPEAT

Abs done throughout the week and usually 20 min cardio after weights. Also do 45 minutes cardio in morning 45 minutes after my protein shake when i wake up.

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## eatrainrest

> here's mine ( I am on hrt of 320 mg/wk test and 240 mg/wk deca )
> 
> After a proper warmup all sets done to failure (no post- failure training). *good this is what i only recommend*I like high intensity and low volume. Heaviest sets first in 4-6 rep range and then going to lower weights and higher reps to finish with a weight i can do about 10-12 times. rest 2-3 minutes for large bodyparts in between sets and 1-2 minutes for smaller body parts. Will do 2 or 3 days in a row of weights then rest day depending on how i feel. 
> 
> 1)Back and Legs
> 3-4 sets rows
> 3-4 sets pulldowns
> 3 sets seated calves
> 3 sets standing calves
> ...


ok, problem here is your not working your legs liek you think you are. where are your quads, gluets, hamstrings??? you need another day designtated for this FOR SURE! their half your body!

----------


## bmit

Why should I start with back width (rows) instead of pull-downs? I usually alternate between workouts which i do first.

I train legs with back and calves. Have herniated disks so I can't really do legs anymore w/o risk of injury. Have spent years developing my quads and hams so I do just enough to maintain and keep upper and lower body symmetric. I do 3-4 sets of squats holding dumbbells with my back against a swiss ball pressed against the wall. 

For chest presses I do 4 sets alternate between incline and flat with dumbbells and barbell. I also do flyes or cables for 2-3 sets. So I do about 6-7 sets total for chest

For shoulder presses alternate between arnold presses, machine, and dumbell and barbell press.

For tricep pressdowns alternate between machine and different bar and rope attachements on the cable. And some days sub with close grip bench.

----------


## eatrainrest

> Why should I start with back width (rows) instead of pull-downs? I usually alternate between workouts which i do first
> *back width exercises are not rows they are wide pulldowns, wide pull upts, etc. train them first.*.
> 
> I train legs with back and calves. Have herniated disks so I can't really do legs anymore w/o risk of injury. Have spent years developing my quads and hams so I do just enough to maintain and keep upper and lower body symmetric. I do 3-4 sets of squats holding dumbbells with my back against a swiss ball pressed against the wall. 
> *if your doctor recommends lower intensity light reps i would certainly do weight training with legs, lower intensity higher reps but to strengthen the joints and muscles*
> 
> For chest presses I do 4 sets alternate between incline and flat with dumbbells and barbell. I also do flyes or cables for 2-3 sets. So I do about 6-7 sets total for chest*good you could possibly up it to 8 if you want*
> 
> For shoulder presses alternate between arnold presses, machine, and dumbell and barbell press.
> ...


comments in bold

----------


## T-MOS

what would you suggest for a 4 day split

Mon
Tues
Thurs
Fri

----------


## eatrainrest

> what would you suggest for a 4 day split
> 
> Mon
> Tues
> Thurs
> Fri


the 4 day split that i currently run is working liek a charm

monday-back, hams, calves
tuesday-delts/traps, triceps, core (abs,obliques)

thursday-quads, glutes, calves
saturday-chest, biceps, core (abs, obliques, lower back ext)

----------


## T-MOS

> the 4 day split that i currently run is working liek a charm
> 
> monday-back, hams, calves
> tuesday-delts/traps, triceps, core (abs,obliques)
> 
> thursday-quads, glutes, calves
> saturday-chest, biceps, core (abs, obliques, lower back ext)


cool, thanks

----------


## eatrainrest

> cool, thanks


never a prob

----------


## s00noma

So referencing your overload principal, I usually shoot between the 8-12 rep range, possibly 6 if i am trying a heavier weight. Should i be doing the heaviest weights first in my sets? 

For example today i did:
Flat DB Bench Press x 3 -- 80 x 15 reps [a little light] , 95 x 7 reps, 100 x 5 reps

Should I have started with 100 and worked my way down instead??

----------


## eatrainrest

> So referencing your overload principal, I usually shoot between the 8-12 rep range, possibly 6 if i am trying a heavier weight. Should i be doing the heaviest weights first in my sets? 
> 
> For example today i did:
> Flat DB Bench Press x 3 -- 80 x 15 reps [a little light] , 95 x 7 reps, 100 x 5 reps
> 
> Should I have started with 100 and worked my way down instead??


yea, after an effective warmup and a warmup prep set (1-2 light wamup sets), start heavy so you will have the energy to perform the heavy sets.

----------


## Alphatier

OK Eat, let's do this!

Main goal is size/strength, I try to work in the 6-10 and/or 8-12 rep range. I will give you a quick example how I do it.

Ex:
Let's say I'm doing Incline Dumbbell presses, and I'm using 85lbs. If I get something like 10,8,6 Reps(3 Sets), then I do the same weight next week, until I'm able to complete 12,10,8 and then I'll move up to the 90lbs.

Anyways, my split looks something like this:

Monday: Quads/Hams/Calves
Front Squats 3 Sets
Hack Squats 2 Sets
SLDL 4 Sets
Leg Press 4 Sets
Leg curl Lying 4Sets
Leg Extension 4 Sets
Leg Curl Sitting 4 Sets
Seated Calf Raise super-setted with stand calf raises on stirs(no weight) 4 Sets

Tuesday: Chest
Incline Dumbbell Press 3 Sets
Flat Barbell Bench Press 3 Sets
Weighted Dips 3 Sets
Fly Machine 3 Sets
(sometimes I throw in 2-4 sets of Tri's)

Wenesday: Back*
Pullups As many sets as I need to complete 40+ reps
Barbell Rows 3 Sets
Dumbbell Rows 3 Sets
Lat Pulldown 3 Sets
Seated Low-Row 3 Sets

Friday: Shoulders
Barbell Shoulder Press 3 Sets
Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 Sets
Arnold Press 3 Sets
Dumbbell Side Laterals 3 Sets
Shrugs Behind Back 4 Sets

Saturday: Bi's/Tri's
One-Arm Cable Curl 3Sets
Preacher Curl 3 Sets
Bar Cable Curl 3 Sets
Tricep Extension 3 Sets
Close Grip Bench 3 Sets
Reverse Bench Press 3 Sets

Yes, after reading your posts and everything I know I'm overdoing it, so I'll let you rip on my routine lol.


*The reason why I don't to Deads is that first of all I do them on Leg day(SLDL), and secondly, my back hurts most of the times when I do them, and I don't see the point in doing high rep Deads(when I lower the weight).

----------


## eatrainrest

> OK Eat, let's do this!
> **
> 
> Main goal is size/strength, I try to work in the 6-10 and/or 8-12 rep range. I will give you a quick example how I do it.
> 
> Ex:
> Let's say I'm doing Incline Dumbbell presses, and I'm using 85lbs. If I get something like 10,8,6 Reps(3 Sets), then I do the same weight next week, until I'm able to complete 12,10,8 and then I'll move up to the 90lbs.
> *yes this is the overload training principle* 
> 
> ...


comments in bold

----------


## eatrainrest

bump alot of new info

----------


## Alphatier

Ok so how does this look:

Monday: Quads/Hams/Calves
Front Squats 3 Sets
SLDL 3 Sets
Leg Press 3 Sets
Leg Curl Lying/Sitting 3 Sets (I'll alternate between lying and sitting every week)
Leg Extension 3 Sets
Seated Calf Raise super-setted with stand calf raises on stirs(no weight) 4 Sets

Tuesday: Chest
Incline Dumbbell Press 3 Sets
Flat Barbell Bench Press 3 Sets
Weighted Dips 3 Sets

Wenesday: Back (ok so here i need help in choosing width and thickness exercises, I'll make a list and let you comment on it)
Pullups As many sets as I need to complete 40+ reps (Width)
Barbell Rows 3 Sets (Thickness)
Lat Pulldown 3 Sets (Width)
Seated Low-Row 3 Sets (Thickness?)

Friday: Shoulders
Barbell Shoulder Press 2 Sets
Dumbbell Shoulder Press 2 Sets
Dumbbell Side Laterals 2 Sets
Shrugs Behind Back 4 Sets

Saturday: Bi's/Tri's
One-Arm Cable Curl 2 Sets
Preacher Curl 2 Sets
Bar Cable Curl 2 Sets
Tricep Extension 2 Sets
Close Grip Bench 2 Sets
Reverse Bench Press 2 Sets

Now you need to help me a little with the rep ranges  :Smilie:

----------


## eatrainrest

> Ok so how does this look:
> 
> Monday: Quads/Hams/Calves
> Front Squats 3 Sets
> SLDL 3 Sets
> Leg Press 3 Sets
> Leg Curl Lying/Sitting 3 Sets (I'll alternate between lying and sitting every week)
> Leg Extension 3 Sets
> Seated Calf Raise super-setted with stand calf raises on stirs(no weight) 4 Sets
> ...


rep ranges.. id go heavy for first 1-2 sets of each 2-3 set exercise. 4 rep max on compound movements and 6-8 reps... 12 rep max pon the other reps to hit red fast twitch

----------


## Alphatier

Monday: Quads/Hams/Calves
Front Squats 3 Sets (Sets 1&2 = 4 Reps) (Set 3 = 6-8 Reps)
SLDL 3 Sets (Sets 1&2 = 4 Reps) (Set 3 = 6-8 Reps)
Leg Press 3 Sets (Sets 1&2 = 4 Reps) (Set 3 = 6-8 Reps)
Leg Curl Lying/Sitting 3 Sets (I'll alternate between lying and sitting every week) (Sets 1-3 = 6-8/ 10-12 Reps)
Leg Extension 3 Sets (Sets 1-3 = 6-8/ 10-12 Reps)
Seated Calf Raise super-setted with stand calf raises on stirs(no weight) 4 Sets

Tuesday: Chest
Incline Dumbbell Press 3 Sets (Sets 1&2 = 4 Reps) (Set 3 = 6-8 Reps)
Flat Barbell Bench Press 3 Sets (Sets 1&2 = 4 Reps) (Set 3 = 6-8 Reps)
Weighted Dips 3 Sets (Sets 1&2 = 4 Reps) (Set 3 = 6-8 Reps)

Wenesday: Back (ok so here i need help in choosing width and thickness exercises, I'll make a list and let you comment on it)
Pullups As many sets as I need to complete 40+ reps (Width)
Lat Pulldown 3 Sets (Width) (Sets 1-3 = 6-8/ 10-12 Reps)
Barbell Rows 3 Sets (Thickness) (Sets 1&2 = 4 Reps) (Set 3 = 6-8 Reps)
Seated Low-Row 3 Sets (Thickness?) (Sets 1-3 = 6-8/ 10-12 Reps)

Friday: Shoulders
Barbell Shoulder Press 2 Sets (Sets 1-2 = Reps) Now should I maybe add one set here to do 6-8/10-12 Reps??
Reverse Flyes(?) 2 Sets (Sets 1-3 = 6-8/ 10-12 Reps)
Dumbbell Side Laterals 2 Sets (Sets 1-3 = 6-8/ 10-12 Reps)
Shrugs Behind Back 4 Sets Sets 1-4 = 6-10 Reps??

Saturday: Bi's/Tri's
One-Arm Cable Curl 2 Sets
Preacher Curl 2 Sets
Bar Cable Curl 2 Sets
Close Grip Bench 2 Sets
Tricep Extension 2 Sets
Reverse Bench Press 2 Sets

And for arms what is the rep range there?

]Sorry if it's a little confusing lol.

----------


## eatrainrest

> Monday: Quads/Hams/Calves
> Front Squats 3 Sets (Sets 1&2 = 4 Reps) (Set 3 = 6-8 Reps)*12 reps here to spare the joints/tendons*
> SLDL 3 Sets (Sets 1&2 = 4 Reps) (Set 3 = 6-8 Reps)*12*
> Leg Press 3 Sets (Sets 1&2 = 4 Reps) (Set 3 = 6-8 Reps)*12*
> Leg Curl Lying/Sitting 3 Sets (I'll alternate between lying and sitting every week) (Sets 1-3 = 6-8/ 10-12 Reps)
> Leg Extension 3 Sets (Sets 1-3 = 6-8/ 10-12 Reps)
> Seated Calf Raise super-setted with stand calf raises on stirs(no weight) 4 Sets*i wuldnt super set these two, i iused to but not anymore. 8 reps for this* 
> 
> Tuesday: Chest
> ...


bold, be aware this will put alot more pressure on joints/tendons. proper form, etc. iS ESSENTIAL!

----------


## eatrainrest

work at 100 percen tintensity and i can gaurentee you should be happier with the results...again im not sure how long you have been running this routine, because the body may have adapted/will adapt soon so how long have you been on it

----------


## Alphatier

So Barbell Shoulder Press 6 Reps
Barbell Row 6 Reps

Thanks a lot brother, I'm looking forward to start my "new" routine hehe.

Leg day used to be endless lol.

----------


## eatrainrest

yea this is all you need for growth for sure... if you been on this routine for longer than 6-12 weeks than i would personally switch up the splits/exercises with the same principles and rep ranges applied that i gave you and you should see dramatic results

----------


## spywizard

> So Barbell Shoulder Press 6 Reps
> Barbell Row 6 Reps
> 
> Thanks a lot brother, I'm looking forward to start my "new" routine hehe.
> 
> Leg day used to be endless lol.



Clarity is good... 

100% effort = that at 4 working reps you cannot do another rep... once you can do 6 reps with good form cannot do a 7th then you increase the weight and go back to 4 reps... 

for size and strength that is..

But that's where eatrainrest and I differ is the rep range... but he gives some solid advice for sure..

----------


## eatrainrest

oh yea, forgot to mention that SPY will be working with me on this thread to help answer questions, he is also certified by the same agency, enjoy the extra help!, thanks spy i just volunteered you, lol...

----------


## Alphatier

Sounds great guys, thanks for your help.

BTW: How long did it take you to get certified from start till finish?

Just curious, because it's something that I'm interessted in doing some time later.

----------


## eatrainrest

well we did it differently...i ordered the home study guide and just studied at my own pace,, 120 multiple question test broken down on the websiite.

nfpt.com

----------


## G-13

Hey here it goes. My goal to be the strongest man in the world. :Wink: 

Here is my current workout schedule. It has been very successful for me in the past. Please take a look at it and give me some input on what you think, is it good, average or what should be added or taken away. 
My reps are in the 6-10 range. Also this might look like alot of sets for some, but after 20 years i have found this optimal for me. Less i just dont get the results, and i do put in some intensity.


chest day: saturday
incline 5X
bench5X
dips5X
incline flies 3-4X

back day:tues
pulldowns 5x
barbell rows 5x
wide grip rows 5x and these are seated
Stiffarm pulldown 5X


shoulder:wed
military 3X
arnold press 3X 
sides and front 3X 
shrugs 5x

arms:thurs
preacher 3X
Incline curl 3X
ezcurl 3x
rev preacher 3x
close grip bench 5x
overhead press 3X
pressdowns 3X

legs:sunday
squats 5x
lunges5x
leg curls5x
leg ext 5x
calves 12-15 sets seated and standing ( mixed inner and outer)

----------


## eatrainrest

> Hey here it goes. My goal to be the strongest man in the world.
> 
> Here is my current workout schedule. It has been very successful for me in the past. Please take a look at it and give me some input on what you think, is it good, average or what should be added or taken away. 
> My reps are in the 6-10 range. Also this might look like alot of sets for some, but after 20 years i have found this optimal for me. Less i just dont get the results, and i do put in some intensity.
> 
> 
> chest day: saturday
> incline 5X
> bench5X
> ...


just too many sets IMO, growth has alot to do with diet, sleep, hydration, etc. etc. following my suggested rep ranges 100 percent intensity will undoubteldy tear muscle tissue and allow for YOU to replenish with the right nutrients through diet, to grow.

----------


## spywizard

> oh yea, forgot to mention that SPY will be working with me on this thread to help answer questions, he is also certified by the same agency, enjoy the extra help!, thanks spy i just volunteered you, lol...



thanks i appreciate that.. the standards in training or training methods are based in science, that is the organization/book and philosophy

----------


## eatrainrest

hey spy, if you have any input on any information that i could add to the 1st post that would be great

----------


## spywizard

> just too many sets IMO, growth has alot to do with diet, sleep, hydration, etc. etc. following my suggested rep ranges 100 percent intensity will undoubtedly tear *(rupture capillaries)* muscle tissue and allow for YOU to replenish with the right nutrients through diet, *(PWO and 72 hrs after the training)* to grow.



Yep, and that's why rest is so important, i too am guilty of over training, just because we feel good enough to do it again, doesn't mean we should..

----------


## G-13

> hey spy, if you have any input on any information that i could add to the 1st post that would be great


 
Like i said in my diet post, i appreciate your input. I dont know how long you have been workin out, but i dont get bigger with less sets, i might get just as strong but i need the sets, maybe thats just how my body is. No disrespect. I have tried low set super high intensity and just about anything else you could conceive as far as mixiing sets and reps. 

Now as far as how the days are layed out, is there anything you would change?

----------


## spywizard

I found the book and the workshop to be very interesting and have integrated much of the knowledge into what i do.. but old habits die hard..

----------


## spywizard

> Like i said in my diet post, i appreciate your input. I dont know how long you have been workin out, but i dont get bigger with less sets, i might get just as strong but i need the sets, maybe thats just how my body is. No disrespect. I have tried low set super high intensity and just about anything else you could conceive as far as mixiing sets and reps. 
> 
> Now as far as how the days are layed out, is there anything you would change?



I hear ya on the set thing, you need to get past that though.. if it works for you, then don't change it.. the issue is it's not working for you or you are hoping that you can do better.. 

Stronger and bigger are often 2 different things..

Example at 216 lbs i was able to bench 525 x4 reps with the shape of the Michelin man.. after 5 years training from that, at 214 I can do 315 but don't go much above that because I am restricting my growth potential with the foods i eat.. 

I don't want to be 185 lbs and 9-10%bf 5'9" I want to be 210 @ 9-10% bf... So the amount of weight becomes irrelevant since i'm not in any strongman competitions. 

Thats why if you read some of my logs you'll see that i test a product with a specific goal in mind... not to gain 5-15 lbs but to maintain the same weight and drop fat..

----------


## eatrainrest

> I hear ya on the set thing, you need to get past that though.. if it works for you, then don't change it.. *the issue is it's not working for you or you are hoping that you can do better..* 
> 
> Stronger and bigger are often 2 different things..
> 
> Example at 216 lbs i was able to bench 525 x4 reps with the shape of the Michelin man.. after 5 years training from that, at 214 I can do 315 but don't go much above that because I am restricting my growth potential with the foods i eat.. 
> 
> I don't want to be 185 lbs and 9-10%bf 5'9" I want to be 210 @ 9-10% bf... So the amount of weight becomes irrelevant since i'm not in any strongman competitions. 
> 
> Thats why if you read some of my logs you'll see that i test a product with a specific goal in mind... not to gain 5-15 lbs but to maintain the same weight and drop fat..


^^^x2

----------


## spywizard

Another example, and this works for me but not for a lot of people... 

I do static training when i hit a plateau.. the science says this should not work, or rather that it is not optimal... it works for me because what it does is get me out of the gym, requiring rest 5 days for that body part so what it does is makes me heal, and keeps the body and mind active all at the same time..

Here's a good one for you.. according to the "tables" how many calories do you burn per hour while you weight train?? 500?? 700?? 1000?? 

Depends, if you aren't using a heart monitor you'll never know for sure, so how can you know if you are building muscle, or burning muscle?? 

What i found is that even during a heavy leg workout i only burn about 720 cals, which is a lot, but if i were using the "tables" i would have assumed that i was burning 1000 and thus i would be consuming 300 cals more than i needed to accomplish my goals..


Here's another question.. 

Your eating plan.. is it different on weight training days than on cardio days?? 

and what about days you are just at rest?? 

Sorry, more questions than answers but good food for thought..

----------


## spywizard

Eattrainrest has been training people for much longer than I have and his advice is spot on, my main advantage is age, when a client seems me and the shape i am in and i let them know i am 48 yrs old, they say "wow i want to be in as good a shape as you" 

my response is, you can be, but lets spend the next 6 weeks talking about diet, and rest and what it really takes to keep a body in this condition... 

then we set more reasonable goals for them..

Oh and my other advantage is I have enough friends they may not like what i have to say, but in the end they admit that I tell them what i think and what it takes to get in condition and make changes to their life to meet the goals they have.. 

i'll tell someone i won't train them, don't need the money that bad.. if they don't do what i want them to, it's just not worth my time to train them.. 

I've also said I wont' train someone that wants to do steroids (believe that one) it's one thing to be on the internet and share, but i won't expose my family and my life to such hazards..

----------


## eatrainrest

there are a shitload of factors that come into play... and the set ranges are SUGGESTED, not saying if go under or over that you wont see results... it will vary SLIGHTLY... 15 sets IMO is still too much for chest

----------


## eatrainrest

> Clarity is good... 
> 
> 100% effort = that at 4 working reps you cannot do another rep... once you can do 6 reps with good form cannot do a 7th then you increase the weight and go back to 4 reps... 
> 
> for size and strength that is..
> 
> But that's where eatrainrest and I differ is the rep range... but he gives some solid advice for sure..


spy i agree with the fact that the 4 rep max range will work. however, i have developed tendonitis from performing this rep range with certain exercises especially isolation exercises. so i only recommend/perform them with compound movements. its very easy to cheat with form on barbell military press because you slightly arch your back, as when on a bench it is very stable. i feel that yes you will be strong as an ox but the chance of in jury is much higher, and i have paid the price for tendonitis in my elbow from doing heavy skull crushers/overhead dumbells in the 4 rep max range. the fact is you are right, but do i recommend it, only on compound exercises.

----------


## spywizard

> there are a shitload of factors that come into play... and the set ranges are SUGGESTED, not saying if go under or over that you wont see results... it will vary SLIGHTLY... 15 sets IMO is still too much for chest



15?? yea, i'd agree

if you can do 15 sets, i'd challenge you to raise your weight up 20% = good times..

----------


## spywizard

> spy i agree with the fact that the 4 rep max range will work. however, *i have developed tendonitis* from performing this rep range with certain exercises especially isolation exercises. so i only recommend/perform them with compound movements. its very easy to cheat with form on barbell military press because you slightly arch your back, as when on a bench it is very stable. i feel that yes you will be strong as an ox but the chance of in jury is much higher, and i have paid the price for tendonitis in my elbow from doing heavy skull crushers/overhead dumbells in the 4 rep max range. the fact is you are right, but do i recommend it, only on compound exercises.



ahh.. have you tried seeing a chiropractor?? tens treatment, takes care of mine, i have to get it done like 1-2 times every 4-5 yrs

and i play racquetball too.. incredible pain

----------


## eatrainrest

> Eattrainrest has been training people for much longer than I have and his advice is spot on, my main advantage is age, when a client seems me and the shape i am in and i let them know i am 48 yrs old, they say "wow i want to be in as good a shape as you" 
> 
> my response is, you can be, but lets spend the next 6 weeks talking about diet, and rest and what it really takes to keep a body in this condition... 
> 
> then we set more reasonable goals for them..
> 
> Oh and my other advantage is I have enough friends they may not like what i have to say, but in the end they admit that I tell them what i think and what it takes to get in condition and make changes to their life to meet the goals they have.. 
> 
> i'll tell someone i won't train them, don't need the money that bad.. if they don't do what i want them to, it's just not worth my time to train them.. 
> ...


thanks for the compliments spy, its good to have you take part in this because of how diverse we are. you being 28 years older than me really puts in a totally different perspective as youve been around alot longer than i have, picking each others brains is always a great way to learn!

----------


## eatrainrest

> ahh.. have you tried seeing a chiropractor?? tens treatment, takes care of mine, i have to get it done like 1-2 times every 4-5 yrs
> 
> and i play racquetball too.. incredible pain


its actually really funny because it only occurs if i perform those exercises. so how do i avoid it? i only work in the 8 rep max range with more simple motions and have no pain, ill stick to that plan for now.

----------


## spywizard

> its actually really funny because it only occurs if i perform those exercises. so how do i avoid it? i only work in the 8 rep max range with more simple motions and have no pain, ill stick to that plan for now.



compound is about all i do as well.... but i won't do any curls or overhead press (tri) with flat bars that helps a lot

Deads i use the correct grip, but I don't use that exercise as a primary due to this exact issue.. 

flat bar = pain

But ya know i don't do flat bench anymore either

incline, overhead press (315) 

And i don't do burn outs at the end anymore, after all what's the point in developing lactic acid resistance if the goal is strength and size development.. 

If at the end of the last set i still have a little energy i will do a static hold, without locking out which has been the hardest thing for me to modify..

locking out on any exercise will transfer the weight to the skeletal system and the ligaments and tendons = bad...

here's a funny thing that happened to me this past monday.. I was doing seated overhead press with 315.. I had completed the exercise 2 sets and was on the 3rd when the bench i was on let go, rather the pin released and it dropped 1 notch... yep the weight almost dropped on my head.. thank goodness i had modified this exercise so that the bar is just in front of my face, or the front edge of my head.. 

Good times..

----------


## eatrainrest

great times...

----------


## T.STEEL

Hey i was thinking about giving your workout a try, the one you that you are currently doing. Before i was doing a 4 day split of mon-chest/bi's tues-legs, calves thurs-shoulders, triceps and fri-Back, traps. I will be on test enth for 12 weeks and looking to put on muscle mass. so here is what i plan on doing for exercises and rep ranges will be a 10, 8, 6. 

mon- back, hams calves.
Weighted pullups
Lat pulldowns with v-bar
T-bar rows
Low row
hyperextensions weighted- 10,10,10
Stiff-legged deadlifts
lying leg curls
Standing calf raises
seated calf raises

Tues- delts, traps, abs.
Seated barbell military press- 10, 8, 6, 4
seated dumbell rear delt raises- rear delts are lagging bigtime
upright rows with cable
barbell shrugs or dumbell- more reps for these??
weighted abs on decline bench

Thurs- quads, glutes, calves.
Barbell squats- 10, 8, 6, 4.
Leg press
legextensions
Barbell lunges
Seated calves
standing calves- what are your reps for calves?

Fri- chest, biceps, abs
Incline bench
chest press free motion
decline dumbells
flyes on machine or dumbell.
standing barbell curls
dumbell incline curls
preacher curl- 12, 10,10.

any suggestions? anything i should maybe switch around or add or replace something? was going to try this for maybe 6-8 weeks then switch over to your 4-6 rep max for the first two sets and then go down in weight. also would like to throw in deadlifts once every other week instead of pullups, your thoughts?

----------


## eatrainrest

> Hey i was thinking about giving your workout a try, the one you that you are currently doing. Before i was doing a 4 day split of mon-chest/bi's tues-legs, calves thurs-shoulders, triceps and fri-Back, traps. I will be on test enth for 12 weeks and looking to put on muscle mass. so here is what i plan on doing for exercises and rep ranges will be a 10, 8, 6. 
> 
> mon- back, hams calves.
> Weighted pullups *6,6,last set to your max*
> Lat pulldowns with v-bar *6,6,12*
> T-bar rows*6,8,8*
> Low row*8,8,8*
> hyperextensions weighted- 10,10,10
> Stiff-legged deadlifts*12,6,6*
> ...


those would be my suggestions, spy any input?

----------


## eatrainrest

oh yea no weights ont he last set of pullups, go to failure as many wide pulllups

----------


## TractionIssues

I'd like to build a better training regime. I like super setting opposing muscle groups, and training till failure.

I generally do this schedule while changing up the machine/training each time:

Day 1 - Biceps/Triceps/Forearms
Day 2 - Cardio
Day 3 - Legs
Day 4 - Chest/Back
Day 5 - Shoulders/Traps/Calves
Day 6 - Cardio

I normally do 3x 4 sets on different workouts, while doing supersets on all muscles (except calves and forearms that I leave till end of training) I sometimes don't finish my last set of machines as I make it my failure set. My reps are normally around 8-10, and 15 for legs.

My goal is to build round, defined mass. What kind of change can you sggest for me?

----------


## T.STEEL

Thanks for the input. What are your thoughts towards switching up the exercises week to week? or just sticking with the same ones until you cant really move up anymore?

----------


## eatrainrest

> Thanks for the input. What are your thoughts towards switching up the exercises week to week? or just sticking with the same ones until you cant really move up anymore?


stick to a routine 8-12 weeks or until results stop or hit a plateua.

----------


## eatrainrest

> I'd like to build a better training regime. I like super setting opposing muscle groups, and training till failure.
> 
> I generally do this schedule while changing up the machine/training each time:
> 
> Day 1 - Biceps/Triceps/Forearms
> Day 2 - Cardio
> Day 3 - Legs
> Day 4 - Chest/Back
> Day 5 - Shoulders/Traps/Calves
> ...


well if you could show me what i need for proper critique...the split itself looks good although i would do my cardio post workout or AM. but i need sets per muscle group to tell you... thats a pretty high rep range if you went to 4 max using O-load principle you wil gain rapid strength, maximizing some white twitch aka some more size and strength.. either rep range stay in the 4-8 for size/strength would be my recommendation. if anything superset the last set of each body part. ex-last set of chest superset flies with dips. and no beyond failure techniques except supersets, if you want. you will gain fine with straight sets and lessen the likelihood of injury

----------


## eatrainrest

also traction, if you hav ebeen running that split for around 8-12 weeks id say refer to my first post and choose a solid 4-5 day split that i have written that will work for you.

----------


## TractionIssues

> well if you could show me what i need for proper critique...the split itself looks good although i would do my cardio post workout or AM. but i need sets per muscle group to tell you... thats a pretty high rep range if you went to 4 max using O-load principle you wil gain rapid strength, maximizing some white twitch aka some more size and strength.. either rep range stay in the 4-8 for size/strength would be my recommendation. if anything superset the last set of each body part. ex-last set of chest superset flies with dips. and *no beyond failure techniques except supersets*, if you want. you will gain fine with straight sets and lessen the likelihood of injury


Thanks for the advice, but I don't understand this part.

----------


## eatrainrest

beyond failure techniques would constittute drop sets, or anything over 100 percent intensity, which i do NOT recommend because of the unecessary tension applied to the joints/tendons which can 1-lead to joint/tendon issues and 2-overtraining.

----------


## eatrainrest

nobody has yet to follow up with me and their workouts? id like to hear the progress on the ones i have critiqued.. lol

----------


## goldtravel

Thinking of this for my new routine, 3 days on 1 off and 3 on 1 off, then repeat. i am looking for size/strenght


Chest/back

INCLINE BENCH 3 SETS
FLAT BENCH 3 SETS
FLYES 3 SETS
DEADLIFT 3 SETS
WIDE PULLUPS 3 SETS
WIDE PULLDOWNS 3 SETS
SEATED ROW 3 SETS

Delts/Bi's/Tri's

SHOULDER PRESS 3 SETS
FRONT RAISE 2 SETS
UPRIGHT ROW 2 SETS
STANDING CURL 3 SETS
SEATED CURL 3 SETS
DIPS 2 SETS
CLOSE GRIP PRESS 2 SETS
OVERHEAD PRESS 2 SETS

Quads/hams/calves

SQUATS 4 SETS
LEG EXTENSIONS 4 SETS
LEG CURLS 3 SETS
LUNGES 2 SETS
LEG CURLS 4 SETS
CALF RAISE 4 SETS

OFF DAY 

Chest/back

FLAT BENCH 3 SETS
DECLINE BENCH 3 SETS
FLYES 3 SETS
WIDE PULLUPS 3 SETS
WIDE PULLDOWNS 3 SETS
SEATED ROW 3 SETS
T BAR ROW 2 SETS

Delts/Bi's/Tri's 

FRONT RAISE 3 SETS
UPRIGHT ROW 3 SETS
STANDING CURL 3 SETS
SEATED CURL 3 SETS
DIPS 3 SETS
TRICEP EXTENSIONS 3 SETS

Quads/Hams/Calves

SQUATS 4 SETS
FRONT SQUATS 3 SETS
SINGLE LEG EXTENSIONS 4 SETS
SINGLE LEG CURLS 3 SETS
STIFF LEG DEADLIFT 4 SETS
SEATED CALF RAISE 4 SETS

----------


## eatrainrest

> Thinking of this for my new routine, 3 days on 1 off and 3 on 1 off, then repeat. i am looking for size/strenght
> 
> 
> Chest/back
> 
> INCLINE BENCH 3 SETS
> FLAT BENCH 3 SETS
> FLYES 3 SETS
> DEADLIFT 3 SETS
> ...


split looks good although lets say the 3 on 1 off

mon-1
tues-2
w-3
thur-off
fri-1
sat-2
sun-off
monday-day 3

thats how i wold run it... if your lookin size strength 4 reps max using O load principle first 2 sets all compound movements

3 days on 2 days off would work real well with that schedule if you did quads glutes on day 3 to give 2 extra days

----------


## TractionIssues

> split looks good although lets say the 3 on 1 off
> 
> mon-1
> tues-2
> w-3
> thur-off
> fri-1
> sat-2
> sun-off
> ...


Wouldn't follow days be more efficient than gearing it mon-sun? that way if you miss a day you don't screw up your whole schedule? and most of the time I find it hard to split things properly over 7 days.

----------


## goldtravel

3 days on and 2 days off I was considering, I can definately do that. one other question I have very small traps, would it be smart to squeeze some shrugs into the mix, if so where would I put them. Thanks fir the reply, it's always a pleasure reading your posts.

----------


## eatrainrest

> Wouldn't follow days be more efficient than gearing it mon-sun? that way if you miss a day you don't screw up your whole schedule? and most of the time I find it hard to split things properly over 7 days.


you can do both, i was citing an example of a 5-day weekly workout using a 3 day split. what you should focus on is over training the muscles in your splits and having ample amount of time to allow for recovery... if those two components are in place, it really does not matter whats worked out what days.

----------


## eatrainrest

> 3 days on and 2 days off I was considering, I can definately do that. one other question I have very small traps, would it be smart to squeeze some shrugs into the mix, if so where would I put them. Thanks fir the reply, it's always a pleasure reading your posts.


absolutely, i have to work out calves/rear delts/traps because those are my lagging muscle groups more frequently. i would throw 4 sets of shrugs on your delts day right after delts or on your quads day. thanks for the thanks lol  :7up:

----------


## goldtravel

Sorry for all the questions but would decline bench be considered a compound movement, what about shoulder press, I know squats flat bench, and deadlifts are compound could you please tell me which other excercises are as well?

----------


## eatrainrest

> Sorry for all the questions but would decline bench be considered a compound movement, what about shoulder press, I know squats flat bench, and deadlifts are compound could you please tell me which other excercises are as well?


please fire away tahts why i made the therad lol... well the fundamental diff between compound and "isolation" exercises is compound use multiple muscle groups as opposed to less. now, it is anatomcially IMPOSSIBLE to isolate a muscle group, pretty obvious. now, take for example triceps rope ext-triceps, and flat bench-anterior delts, chest, triceps. 

the shoulder press works the anterior/medial delts, i guess the barbell could be considered compound, althought i would NEVER apply the 4 rep max here. i would stick the 4 rep max to 1-2 sets of squats/hack squats/front squats, flat/incline/decline bench, leg press, deadlifts (another compound). other than that if you want to maximize whtie twitch go 6 reps because 4 would cause sloppy form with the military press as you arch yuor back.

----------


## eatrainrest

^^ just added that question to my FAQ as well

----------


## quarry206

whats the most cardio i can do and still keep strength gain's up..

not into muscle, just powerlifting. right now I am training wanting to get my Bench up to the 515 mark raw. but I also need to improve my cardio, for the military. I have no problem passing the two mile run, but its not where i was two years ago and want my cardio to be back up there.

if i switched to block training m-w-f, could i also run 2-3miles four days a week without burning out my CNS?

----------


## eatrainrest

> whats the most cardio i can do and still keep strength gain's up..
> 
> not into muscle, just powerlifting. right now I am training wanting to get my Bench up to the 515 mark raw. but I also need to improve my cardio, for the military. I have no problem passing the two mile run, but its not where i was two years ago and want my cardio to be back up there.
> 
> if i switched to block training m-w-f, could i also run 2-3miles four days a week without burning out my CNS?


i would do cardio post workout and start by 20-30 minutes 2x weekly 1.5 minutes at 80-90% HR (great at achieving v02 max) followed by a 3 min walk low intensity 60-65% HR. every 2 weeks jack that up so you do not plateua. then the once a week i would do 30 minutes post workout low intensity (any equipment) HR at 65%. the mile runs are not recommmended because you are in a catabolic state after your workout. if you want to preserve muscle those are the two best options, id recommend because high intensity for prolonged periods of tiems in glycogen depleted statescan=muscle loss.

----------


## T.STEEL

Hey forgot to add triceps on delt and trap day. What would you suggest for triceps? order of exercises, not really sure. I usually go with weighted dips then an overhead extension- dumbell then tricep pushdown.

----------


## eatrainrest

> Hey forgot to add triceps on delt and trap day. What would you suggest for triceps? order of exercises, not really sure. I usually go with weighted dips then an overhead extension- dumbell then tricep pushdown.


those exercises are fine

----------


## Alphatier

Did legs today, and I gotta say they're fried as always, thou less sets were needed lol.

So I'm gonna write up what I did and let you comment on reps.

Here we go:

Squats
Set 1(Warm-Up): 135x10
Set 2(warm-Up): 185x8
Set 3(Warm-Up): 225x8
Set 4: 275x6 (could've maybe gone further, but was trying to do everything with good form, and trying not to mess up my back)
Set 5: 275x6
Set 6: 245x8

SLDL
Set 1: 265x6
Set 2: 265x6
Set 3: 245x8

Leg Press(wasn't sure if you count that as a compound lift, so I went for 8 reps)
Sets 1-3: 580x8

Leg Curl Lying:
Sets 1-2: 125x8
Set 3: 120x8

Leg Extension
Sets 1-2: 215x8
Set 3: 215x6

What you think about the rep range? Where are tweaks needed?

Thanks
Set 6:

----------


## eatrainrest

> Did legs today, and I gotta say they're fried as always, thou less sets were needed lol.
> 
> So I'm gonna write up what I did and let you comment on reps.
> 
> Here we go:
> 
> Squats
> Set 1(Warm-Up): 135x10
> Set 2(warm-Up): 185x8
> ...



those reps are fine, if your looking to maximize strength you could go as low as 4 reps for the first couple sets of squats, leg press.

----------


## Alphatier

The reason leg extension is my last exercise is because I always did 1 Sets Quads 1 Sets Hams and so on.

So would you say that I should do them right after Leg Press, and then end it with leg curls?

----------


## eatrainrest

> The reason leg extension is my last exercise is because I always did 1 Sets Quads 1 Sets Hams and so on.
> 
> So would you say that I should do them right after Leg Press, and then end it with leg curls?


if you are supersetting quads/hams that would be fine just rest double the time. otherwise if its just straight sets do them after.

----------


## Swifto

> beyond failure techniques would constittute drop sets, or anything over 100 percent intensity, which i do NOT recommend because of the unecessary tension applied to the joints/tendons which can 1-lead to joint/tendon issues and 2-overtraining.


I'm still finding this hard to understand.

I'm actually a qualified personal trainer here in the UK. I also have a qualification in injury rehabilitation and sports massge therapy. The company I did it with is called Permier Training International and there probably the best in the biz here in the UK. Along with YMCA.

On my course, hypoertrophy was only defined by high volume. You must increase the volume to attain hypertrophy. But we both know thats not the case. HIT goes against that idea and is a very good way of building muscle.

Overtraining shouldnt occur if breaks are taken when your told too (by your body). I agree that training beyond failure is not the best for joints, tendons and ligaments, this was raised by my tutor too. But there are thousands of bodybuilders out there, training HIT and avoiding injury's of this kind. How can that be?

----------


## eatrainrest

> I'm still finding this hard to understand.
> 
> I'm actually a qualified personal trainer here in the UK. I also have a qualification in injury rehabilitation and sports massge therapy. The company I did it with is called Permier Training International and there probably the best in the biz here in the UK. Along with YMCA.
> 
> On my course, hypoertrophy was only defined by high volume. You must increase the volume to attain hypertrophy. But we both know thats not the case. HIT goes against that idea and is a very good way of building muscle.
> 
> Overtraining shouldnt occur if breaks are taken when your told too (by your body). *I agree that training beyond failure is not the best for joints, tendons and ligaments, this was raised by my tutor too*. But there are thousands of bodybuilders out there, training HIT and avoiding injury's of this kind. How can that be?


well, first i want to say thank you for bringing something debatable to the table and a respectable point of view along with crudentials, i was a proud trainer of the YMCA but have left for other reasons.

that's exactly my point in whcih we both agree on (IN BOLD), you have to understand that my recommendations go out to the general public, and the fact that everybody is different nullifies either of our arguments. i personally do not trained beyond failure, hence forced reps and believe that by doing so, as we both agree on is not best for the joints. i am not into competitive BB, any my joint health means alot to me as i am young and want to have a long long career in exercise. people such as ronnie rowland and myself, dont agree with training beyond failure because of the risks given at hand, and we both believe that forced reps are not necessary in one's routine. its just our opinion, to each his own. the fact is that its more likely to lead to joint/tendon problems than a straight set to failure would. a strtaight set done at 100% intensity in the 4 rep max range is suffiecient enough for hypertrophy, a drop set in the 20 rep range cannot be comparable to maximizing white twitch muscle fibers (strength) but will add unecessary amount of stress to the joints/tendons. but hey, to each his own, glad to have somebody challeng me for a change thou.. :7up:

----------


## eatrainrest

[QUOTE=Swifto;4667534]I'm still finding this hard to understand.

I'm actually a qualified personal trainer here in the UK. I also have a qualification in injury rehabilitation and sports massge therapy. The company I did it with is called Permier Training International and there probably the best in the biz here in the UK. Along with YMCA.

On my course, hypoertrophy was only defined by high volume. You must increase the volume to attain hypertrophy. But we both know thats not the case. HIT goes against that idea and is a very good way of building muscle.

*Overtraining shouldnt occur* if breaks are taken when your told too (by your body). I agree that training beyond failure is not the best for joints, tendons and ligaments, this was raised by my tutor too. But there are thousands of bodybuilders out there, training HIT and avoiding injury's of this kind. How can that be?[/QUOTE

yes, but it certainly can.

----------


## Deltasaurus

i strained my groin last night and need to be back to normal for sports ASAP what should i do??

its not a tear just a decent strain

----------


## Swifto

> well, first i want to say thank you for bringing something debatable to the table and a respectable point of view along with crudentials, i was a proud trainer of the YMCA but have left for other reasons.
> 
> that's exactly my point in whcih we both agree on (IN BOLD), *you have to understand that my recommendations go out to the general public,* and the fact that everybody is different nullifies either of our arguments. i personally do not trained beyond failure, hence forced reps and believe that by doing so, as we both agree on is not best for the joints. i am not into competitive BB, any my joint health means alot to me as i am young and want to have a long long career in exercise. people such as ronnie rowland and myself, dont agree with training beyond failure because of the risks given at hand, and we both believe that forced reps are not necessary in one's routine. its just our opinion, to each his own. the fact is that its more likely to lead to joint/tendon problems than a straight set to failure would. a strtaight set done at 100% intensity in the 4 rep max range is suffiecient enough for hypertrophy, a drop set in the 20 rep range cannot be comparable to maximizing white twitch muscle fibers (strength) but will add unecessary amount of stress to the joints/tendons. but hey, to each his own, glad to have somebody challeng me for a change thou..


Maybe thats just it then, the general public. HIT isnt for the "general public" and there were many contradictions, I found, when I was taught PT and from what I know about bodybuilding and the various training protocols inlvolved.

We'll agree to disagree my friend.

----------


## Deltasaurus

swifto? u got anything on my strained groin? u got rehab experince?

----------


## Swifto

> i strained my groin last night and need to be back to normal for sports ASAP what should i do??
> 
> its not a tear just a decent strain


Cryotherapy (ice). Then warmth.

If you did it last night, your in the acute (sorry, put chronic, thats longer) stage and need to rest it IMHO for 72 hours depending on what stage of strain, tear it is. I'd still leave 72 hours however.

----------


## Swifto

> swifto? u got anything on my strained groin? u got rehab experince?


I was typing as you were mate...

----------


## Deltasaurus

how much time am i looking at untill i can train again?

----------


## Deltasaurus

also is ICY hot? type stuff good??? im really depressed about the whole thing

----------


## Swifto

> how much time am i looking at untill i can train again?


It really depends on what grade strain it is?

Is there any bruising/swelling? Is it limiting activites? How painful is it on a scale of 1-10? Can you abduct/adduct your leg unassisted?

Groins are tricky bastards (my GF has a long term groin strain that never wants to go away).

----------


## Swifto

> also is ICY hot? type stuff good??? im really depressed about the whole thing


I'm guessing thats a cream or gel, if so, I think there bullshit. You need a good old fashoined hot water bottle to get the heat deep into the muscle. Topical gels and creams dont do that.

Listen, I'll carry this on via PMs with you. I dont want to clog eattrainrests great thread here.

----------


## eatrainrest

> also is ICY hot? type stuff good??? im really depressed about the whole thing


dude do you mind not hijacking one question was fine

----------


## eatrainrest

> I'm guessing thats a cream or gel, if so, I think there bullshit. You need a good old fashoined hot water bottle to get the heat deep into the muscle. Topical gels and creams dont do that.
> 
> Listen, I'll carry this on via PMs with you. *I dont want to clog eattrainrests great thread here*.


thanks swifto lol, ill talk to you soon good stuff

----------


## Deltasaurus

no mos hi-jackas.

----------


## Alphatier

Yesterday was Chest day, did:

Incline Dumbbell Press:
6x90
5x90
8x80 (10 reps, but my spotter gave me a little help on the last 2 reps....just a little thou, the way I like it lol)

Flat Barbell Becnh Press (I'm embarassed to put those numbers out there, but what the hell):
6x170
5x170
8x155

Dips:
7x55
6x55
8x45

Today did Back:

Pullups(again I suck at pullups....I went as wide as i could with the grip):
1) 10
2) 8
3) 6

Lat Pulldown(Wide Grip):
8x140
8x140
6x140

Barbell Row:
8x170
7x170
6x170

Seated Low Row(Close Grip):
10x210
8x210
6x210


Any input?

This week I'm just gonna post all my workouts and let you tweak it.

----------


## eatrainrest

> Yesterday was Chest day, did:
> 
> Incline Dumbbell Press:
> 6x90
> 5x90
> 8x80 (10 reps, but my spotter gave me a little help on the last 2 reps....just a little thou, the way I like it lol)
> 
> Flat Barbell Becnh Press (I'm embarassed to put those numbers out there, but what the hell):
> 6x170
> ...


id cut a few sets in back to 10, and you must not be resting long enough you are digressing each set. try to kick up the rest time.

----------


## Alphatier

How long do you usually rest?

I rest 90 seconds between each set, and 3 minutes between different exercises. I rest 60 seconds between pullups.

----------


## eatrainrest

> How long do you usually rest?
> 
> I rest 90 seconds between each set, and 3 minutes between different exercises. I rest 60 seconds between pullups.


it really depends on your recovery HR between sets and your goals. example-losing weight-shorter recovery HR, strength-longer Recovery HR. why 3 minutes between exercises? the transition between sets and exercises shoudl be about the same. try resting 90 seconds for every set and same with transition. no need for 3 minutes to allow your body to cool off that much.

----------


## Alphatier

EAT...how's it going bro?

I'm going to hit chest today, so I thought of something like this:

30 Degree Incline Dumbbell Press
45 Degree Incline Barbell Press
Weighted Dips

How's that look?

----------


## eatrainrest

> EAT...how's it going bro?
> 
> I'm going to hit chest today, so I thought of something like this:
> 
> 30 Degree Incline Dumbbell Press
> 45 Degree Incline Barbell Press
> Weighted Dips
> 
> How's that look?


i was on vaca BUT, looks fine although i would start out with the barbell than go dumbell

----------


## smithhy333

great thread! I don't understand the idea behind training beyone failure though, would that mean lifting to failure, then a 20 second rest, then a rep, then a 20 sec rep, then half a rep (each time to failure) etc...?

----------


## eatrainrest

> great thread! I don't understand the idea behind training beyone failure though, would that mean lifting to failure, then a 20 second rest, then a rep, then a 20 sec rep, then half a rep (each time to failure) etc...?


training beyond failure techniques is just that... training beyond failure.

examples-

having a spotter give you assist after you have failed ( 100 percent).

-drop sets

the example you cited is a certain type of patterned workout, not a fan of it though

----------


## smithhy333

ahh I see

----------


## smithhy333

All I need is an ideal split and then I can start to think about what exercised I do when... 

This split would be for an M1T cycle (the old DS with harsh sides, gains of 20lb in 2 weeks possible).

I know I would need to train very hard, perhaps 5 days, as this is a steroid . 

I was wondering what split you could advise, the only problem is that I have a slightly bad posture too, so need to avoid chest muscles (I think).

Thanks.... sorry it's abit of a strange question

----------


## eatrainrest

not a strange question, first what are your stats? just because your on gear does not necessarily mean you have to workout 5 days a week, by any means actually. i dont understand what your saying, you need to avoid chest mucsles?? you will grown unproportiantely.. personally i dont think gear should be anything .to consider for you.. talk to your doctor regarding this and if he clears you to workout i have critiqued/cited many splits int he first post and throughout the thread.

----------


## smithhy333

ok thanks. I have been given the all clear by the doc to take M1T however I haven't mentioned that I have overtrained my chest, how may I counteract the effect of this?
edit: stats are 160 lbs 5" 11'

----------


## smithhy333

ok so I have changed my first two workouts, am I using the optimal exercises?

Day 1: Back

Lying Cambered Barbell Row
Mixed Grip pull up
Stiff-Legged Barbell Deadlift
Weighted Superman
Weighted Ball Hyperextension
Close-Grip Front Lat Pulldown
Bent over rows

Day 2 rest

Day 3: Traps and bicepts
Cable Hammer Curls - Rope Attachment
Concentration Curls
Barbell Shrug
Dumbbell Incline Shoulder Raise
Smith Machine Upright Row


Thanks

----------


## smithhy333

help  :Frown:  I'm overloaded with information...

could you tell me an ideal split (just the days to use which muscles) and I can then add exercises into it using an exercise chart.

----------


## eatrainrest

> ok thanks. I have been given the all clear by the doc to take M1T however I haven't mentioned that I have overtrained my chest, how may I counteract the effect of this?
> edit: stats are 160 lbs 5" 11'


thsi doesnt make sense to me... you mean you were overtraining by performing too many sets and or little rest time? if so very simple.. cut back a little but dont throw it out

----------


## eatrainrest

stay within the set ranges i have recommended for you and you should grow.. given your diet and everythign else is set in order

----------


## DetroitCity

Hey, I put this together using some of your big info posts.. how does it look? I'm going for size and strength at the moment (just getting back into lifting after a little break .. about a year or so) .. my chest is lacking a bit compared to my other muscles i think and well i never did abs much so i wasn't sure if what i have here will be effective.

Day 1 --
Flat Bench Press (2 sets of 4-6 reps)(1 set of 8-10 reps)
Decline Bench Press (2 sets of 4-6 reps)(1 set of 8-10 reps)
Incline Dumbell Press (3 sets of 8-10 reps)
Incline Flys (3 sets of 8-10)
Weighted Decline Crunches (4 sets of 8-10 reps)

Day 2 --
Deadlift (3 sets of 4-6)(1 set of 8-10 reps)
Wide-Grip Pullups (3 sets max)
Seated Cable Rows (3 sets of 8-10)
Wide Grip Pulldowns (3 sets of 8-10)
Seated Calf Raise (4 sets of 8-10 reps)

Day 3 --
Military Press (3 sets of 4-6 reps) (1 set of 8-10 reps)
Upright Rows (3 sets of 8-10 reps)
Halos (2 sets of 10 reps)
Shrugs (3 sets of 10 reps)
Weighted Decline Crunches (4 sets of 8-10 reps)

Day 4 --
Rest

Day 5 --
Squats (4 sets of 4-6 reps) (1 set of 8-10 reps)
Leg Presses (3 sets of 8-10 reps)
Lying Leg Curls (4 sets of 8-10 reps)
Seated Calf Raise (4 sets of 8-10 reps)
Weighted Decline Crunches (4 sets of 8-10 reps)

Day 6 --
EZ Bar Curls (3 sets of 4-6 reps)(1 set of 8-10 reps)
Close Grip Bench (3 sets of 4-6 reps)(1 set of 8-10 reps)
Seated INcline Curls (3 sets of 8-10 reps)
Skull Crushers (3 sets of 8-10 reps)
A)Dumbell Preacher Curls (3 sets of 10-12 reps)
B)Tricep Pushdown (3 sets of 10-12 reps)
Barbell Wrist Curls (2 sets of 8-10 reps)
Reverse Wrist Curls (2 sets of 8-10 reps)

Day 7 --
Rest

----------


## spywizard

> How long do you usually rest?
> 
> I rest 90 seconds between each set, and 3 minutes between different exercises. I rest 60 seconds between pullups.



I rest until my blood pressure equalizes.. normally 125

----------


## Loaded6161

Does my monday workout seem kinda all over the place? 

Did Bi's tri's and back

----------


## eatrainrest

> Does my monday workout seem kinda all over the place? 
> 
> Did Bi's tri's and back


i wouldnt do that workout.. why dont you post up your workout you currently do so i can take a look

----------


## eatrainrest

> Hey, I put this together using some of your big info posts.. how does it look? I'm going for size and strength at the moment (just getting back into lifting after a little break .. about a year or so) .. my chest is lacking a bit compared to my other muscles i think and well i never did abs much so i wasn't sure if what i have here will be effective.
> 
> Day 1 --
> Flat Bench Press (2 sets of 4-6 reps)(1 set of 8-10 reps)
> Decline Bench Press (2 sets of 4-6 reps)(1 set of 8-10 reps)
> Incline Dumbell Press (3 sets of 8-10 reps)
> Incline Flys (3 sets of 8-10)
> Weighted Decline Crunches (4 sets of 8-10 reps)
> *too many sets.. what do you mean by 4-6. do you mean your applying the overload training principle going 4 reps max and moving up in weight once you get 6 perfect form? if so thats what you shoudl be doing. stick to 9 sets going 3 flat bench press, 3 inclinde dumbell press, and id go 3 decline flys, very similiar to my curfrent. 
> ...



i also recommend ronnies slingshot but for smaller groups during reload they should be 8-10 sets rather tahn 12.

----------


## DetroitCity

too many sets.. what do you mean by 4-6. do you mean your applying the overload training principle going 4 reps max and moving up in weight once you get 6 perfect form? if so thats what you shoudl be doing. stick to 9 sets going 3 flat bench press, 3 inclinde dumbell press, and id go 3 decline flys, very similiar to my curfrent. 

*yes i mean i am applying the overload training principle .. i use to do 9 sets of chest for a long time and my chest is seriously lagging in strength and size compared to my other muscles .. what i typically did was flat bench, incline db bench and incline flies .. i can't do decline flies and my current gym or even decline db press only barbell .. i like 9 sets of chest but it wasn't working for me so i tried adding in the decline basically .. need some sort of change*

lets go 4 reps max for the first 2 sets of incline d-bell and flat bench and last set 12 max. flys do 8 or 12 reps max.

*its hard to do 4 rep max with incline db sometimes cuz i don't always have a spot and would have trouble just getting a weight i can only do 4-6 times up for the first time... ill switch the flies to 10-12*

i like this..... id go heavier with the wide grip pulldowns and seated cables go liek 6 reps max. annd once you get 8 perfeect form jack the weight.. the O-LOAD principle should be applied to every rep range withing 3 reps. can also do shrugs here isntead, can go 4-6 sets with shrugs if its lagging 

*i feel like i need to do more reps for somethings to increase size and not just strength and to get a real good pump on.. my strength is pretty decent for my size i would like to get a bit bigger would you still suggest dropping the reps and higher weight?*

id do 4 day split, taking off this day and combining shoulders, biceps, triceps,

*I may do this, my arms are big compared to other muscles so i shouldn't have to have a day for just arms*

lets do 4 reps max first 2 sets of leg press, be advised higher risk of injury form should be spot on and not locking out. last set do 12 reps max. you shoudl also leg ext 2-3 sets for a total of 8-10 sets of quads.

*yeah risk of injury is not good but i dunno .. by the time i do 4 or 5 sets of heavy squats my quads are pretty shot already .. i don't think there is much point in doing leg ext cuz the machine at my gym is a waste of space*

6 sets tris, 6 sets BIS. they will grow. id go 6 reps max for first 2 sets of close grip, and ez bar curls. the rest shoudl eb probly 8 IMO.

*yeah i think ill drop to 6 and throw this in with shoulders.. will i get size with 8 or just strength? .. thats all im worried about* 

*thanks alot for your input!*

----------


## eatrainrest

> too many sets.. what do you mean by 4-6. do you mean your applying the overload training principle going 4 reps max and moving up in weight once you get 6 perfect form? if so thats what you shoudl be doing. stick to 9 sets going 3 flat bench press, 3 inclinde dumbell press, and id go 3 decline flys, very similiar to my curfrent. 
> 
> the body adapts to a routine somewhere between 8-12 weeks. you should change everythign. exercises, rep ranges, i even change up my splits
> 
> *yes i mean i am applying the overload training principle .. i use to do 9 sets of chest for a long time and my chest is seriously lagging in strength and size compared to my other muscles .. what i typically did was flat bench, incline db bench and incline flies .. i can't do decline flies and my current gym or even decline db press only barbell .. i like 9 sets of chest but it wasn't working for me so i tried adding in the decline basically .. need some sort of change*
> 
> lets go 4 reps max for the first 2 sets of incline d-bell and flat bench and last set 12 max. flys do 8 or 12 reps max.
> 
> *its hard to do 4 rep max with incline db sometimes cuz i don't always have a spot and would have trouble just getting a weight i can only do 4-6 times up for the first time... ill switch the flies to 10-12*
> ...


red comments lol

----------


## thai-lan

cool ill be posting my training routine soon hope you can tweak it a little

----------


## eatrainrest

> cool ill be posting my training routine soon hope you can tweak it a little


yessssssir

----------


## eatrainrest

soonoma ive seen you down there but no posts

----------


## eatrainrest

bump for b o r e d o m

----------


## spywizard

Ok... I have a 52 yr old woman 22% bf, active 5'4"

fused spine... been training her for 6 weeks.. have her up to 210 lb leg press, and 100% body weight in upper body.. 

I need to progress the upper body more since she is going to be lifting a canoe over her head doing some portaging activities with it.. 

canoe is 65 lbs and 8' long.. see the problem?? 

More torso core training with heavy weights is the plan for now.. side bends, up and over with cable exercises..

----------


## eatrainrest

> Ok... I have a 52 yr old woman 22% bf, active 5'4"
> 
> fused spine... been training her for 6 weeks.. have her up to 210 lb leg press, and 100% body weight in upper body.. 
> 
> I need to progress the upper body more since she is going to be lifting a canoe over her head doing some portaging activities with it.. 
> 
> canoe is 65 lbs and 8' long.. see the problem?? 
> 
> More torso core training with heavy weights is the plan for now.. side bends, up and over with cable exercises..


training clients with disabilities is a bitch lol... i dont liek the idea of the side bends as that will put alot of unecessary tension on the lower back and wont make a significant difference. id have her to standard crunches on a weighted machine, or any exercise not putting added pressure on hwe rlower back, but sounds liek you have the right idea in mind.

----------


## thai-lan

hi buddy as i said im going to ask for your idea on my lifts 

Legs

Squats 1x 20(warm up ) 2x 8-10 , 1x6-8(iusually go heavier on last set)
leg press 2x 10-12 2x 6-8
hack squats 3x10
leg extensions 3x 8-12
hamstrings 3x 10
standing calf raises 3x 15

abs +30mins cardio

----------


## spywizard

> training clients with disabilities is a bitch lol... i dont liek the idea of the side bends as that will put alot of unecessary tension on the lower back and wont make a significant difference. id have her to standard crunches on a weighted machine, or any exercise not putting added pressure on hwe rlower back, but sounds liek you have the right idea in mind.



yea, I need to hit her rear delts and continue with her rhomboids to give her that extra strength.. 

I suggested she go with a kayak instead of a canoe..

----------


## eatrainrest

> hi buddy as i said im going to ask for your idea on my lifts 
> 
> Legs
> 
> Squats 1x 20(warm up ) 2x 8-10 , 1x6-8(iusually go heavier on last set)
> leg press 2x 10-12 2x 6-8
> hack squats 3x10
> leg extensions 3x 8-12
> hamstrings 3x 10
> ...


looks good, id do 3 hack squats, 3 squats, 3 leg press and optional 2-3 leg ext. some feel that lower rep ranges work better while others say higher rep ranges with legs.. hers my advice... do both! periodically change.

what exercise for hams? IMO you could go up to 6 working sets for hams liek stiff leg deads (slight knee bend), and seated leg curls. looks good tho.

----------


## eatrainrest

> yea, I need to hit her rear delts and continue with her rhomboids to give her that extra strength.. 
> 
> I suggested she go with a kayak instead of a canoe..


very good approach. how is your client base as of now? are you acting as sales or is your gym supplying clients for you? im working on finding another gym just want to find one that supplies clientelle rather than sometimes compensated "floor time" which is a joke.

----------


## MuscleScience

How do you get yourself or your clients motivated to train?

----------


## thai-lan

sorry forgot to mention what i do about hamstrings. I do seated hamstring curls. Which stance for outer quads?? wide feet or narrow feet?

----------


## eatrainrest

> How do you get yourself or your clients motivated to train?


i gear everything around the client as if they are the spotlight of the show because no matter what, THE CLIENT IS RIGHT! after explaining to them how i will approach their specific goal and have a program written out and explain to them liek its the ABC's they become excited and motivated. i explain to them their are no shortcuts. i keep the sessions interesting, i liek to stay consistent with a schedule to monitor progress but it gets boring to the average client. i like to be ********** and have fun and engage myself with the activitis the client is doing (racing them, lateral shuffle movements with medicine ball, etc etc). Im very altruistic so that goes along way, as well as being an excellent bullshitter (comes in handy sometimes)

----------


## eatrainrest

> sorry forgot to mention what i do about hamstrings. I do seated hamstring curls. Which stance for outer quads?? wide feet or narrow feet?


narrow footed stance for outer quad, wide stance for inner.

----------


## thai-lan

oh yeah?? ive always thought it was wider i go , more id hit outer quad and ever since i started going wider i got outer part . weird huh?? Ill give it a try next week

----------


## ranging1

HEY MATE 
noticed ur advice on training n think ur set ranges and reps ranges and advice are pretty spot on from my experiences
this is my current workout routine
chest, tricpes, shoulders
2 sets bench press
2 sets dips with weights
2 sets dumbell shoulder press
1 set barbell shoulder press
2 sets bench dips with weights
2 sets tricep extensions
2 sets lateral raises
2 sets peck deck

day 2: back, biceps, forarms, traps
2 sets lat pull down
1 set chinups
2 sets dumbell rows
2 sets deadlift
2 sets shrugs
2 sets hammer curls
2 sets hyper extensions
2 sets forarm curls
day 3: legs and calves
2 sets machine squat
2 sets 45 degree leg press
2 sets leg curls
2 sets calve raises using 45 degree leg press machine

my problem is my lats have slowed in development (im not getttin stronger)
my rhombozoids (DUMBELL ROWS) im loosing strength in
and my biceps development is going nowhere
everything else is developing great, my legs, calves, traps, deadlifts, forearms
tricep and chest are developing slowly but getting there
any suggestions how i could accelerate my lats development, get my rows strength back up, and get my biceps developing?

----------


## eatrainrest

> HEY MATE 
> noticed ur advice on training n think ur set ranges and reps ranges and advice are pretty spot on from my experiences
> this is my current workout routine
> chest, tricpes, shoulders
> 2 sets bench press
> 2 sets dips with weights
> 2 sets dumbell shoulder press
> 1 set barbell shoulder press
> 2 sets bench dips with weights
> ...


well your body probably has plateuad to the rep ranges, exercises you have been performing. time to swithc up rep ranges and exercises. also, i think you ened more sets per muscle group. at 100 percent intensity the listed amount in my first post will be fine. may also be your diet.

----------


## eatrainrest

> oh yeah?? ive always thought it was wider i go , more id hit outer quad and ever since i started going wider i got outer part . weird huh?? Ill give it a try next week


id liek to do wide for some time than inner, periodically swithcing my stance up.

----------


## johnq

great job your doing eatrainrest.
my target is to gain muscle and lose bodyfat

every exercise is 3 to 4 sets 10 to 6 reps i start light and work my way up 

mon, chest n bis.
dumbell press incline
dumbell flys incline
dumbell flat press
dumbell flat flys

bis straight barbell curls
standing dumbell curls alternate
close grip z bar curls

tues boxing for a hour

wed
back n traps

pullups
barbell rows
deadlifts
lat pull down behind the kneck
barbell shrugs
dumbell shrugs

thurs cairdo 3mile run steady pace am

fri shoulders n tris

bumbell press
side raises
front raises
rear delt bent over side raises

push downs
close grip barbell press
rope pull downs

sat morn legs

leg extensions warm up 2 sets
squat smith machine, on squatting i put a flat bench under my arse i go to 90 degree angle/parell i dont bounce back up.
leg press
leg extension
lying down harmstrings
calf raises

sunday rest

abs mon and fri

----------


## eatrainrest

> great job your doing eatrainrest.
> my target is to gain muscle and lose bodyfat
> **
> every exercise is 3 to 4 sets 6 to 10 reps
> *body will adapt doing this so periodically switch exercises/rep ranges*
> 
> mon, chest n bis.
> dumbell press incline
> dumbell flys incline
> ...


i dont know how many sets you are doing and what intensity your training out so i cant have much input. other than if your goal is to gain miuscle doing all the high intensity cardio wont cut it unless you are calorie/carb up. cardio day is a waste IMO unless its going to be PWO or AM and should be LI unless you are carb up. but to lose fat LI and HIIT cardio is teh way to go PWO.

----------


## johnq

that was quick

im doing 3 to 4 sets on every exercise training to failure on most of the exercises 

im doing caido thurs morning am

----------


## eatrainrest

> great job your doing eatrainrest.
> my target is to gain muscle and lose bodyfat
> 
> every exercise is 3 to 4 sets 10 to 6 reps i start light and work my way up 
> *k i recommend 100 percent intensity within my set ranges recommendation chart in first psit*
> mon, chest n bis.
> dumbell press incline
> dumbell flys incline
> dumbell flat press
> ...


looks good with changes made

----------


## johnq

should i add a 20 min cardio after workout on the cross trainer?

----------


## eatrainrest

20-30 min PWO LI or alternating H/L i advise.. i have another link of cardip in my databse as well... it dusent matter what equipment you iuse but your HR does matter

----------


## johnq

cheers for your help thanks alot

so tuesdays boxing night make sure i carb up because its very hard 60 min session

ill take a look at those links cheers

----------


## ranging1

cheers mate, about my workout program i repeat that twice in a week so i think ders fair bit of volume der
also i has a question on ur sets per body part
wen u designate a number of sets to a body part
are u saying thats how many we should do in a workout?
or within a time period?
or both?

eg u say 6-8 sets for chest
iill presume thats in 1 week, just because u reccomend split training
so if i did 8 sets for chest in one workouta week
or 2 workouts of 4 sets on chest in a week, would this be the same?
what im asking here is could i workout with a higher frequency per workout, rather then a higher volume?

----------


## eatrainrest

> cheers mate, about my workout program i repeat that twice in a week so i think ders fair bit of volume der
> also i has a question on ur sets per body part
> wen u designate a number of sets to a body part
> are u saying thats how many we should do in a workout?
> or within a time period?
> or both?
> *set range per workout session*
> eg u say 6-8 sets for chest
> iill presume thats in 1 week, just because u reccomend split training
> ...


i dont recommend that, i feel comfortaable hitting each muscle 1x weekly.

----------


## Swifto

> How do you get yourself or your clients motivated to train?


Before and after photos and weekly/monthly measurements are great.

When they see visual changes, it motivates them more than anything.

----------


## eatrainrest

> Before and after photos and weekly/monthly measurements are great.
> 
> When they see visual changes, it motivates them more than anything.


yess

----------


## Rep

Im 20 years old Male 
Weight 170
Height 5'10
GOAL:to gain 20-30 lbs by next year

My split is 
MON:Chest(3xdb press,3xincline dbpress,3xcable fly,3xdecline barbell)12sets total
Triceps: (3xRope pulldown,3xDips,3xskullcrush) 9 sets total
TUES:Legs(4xsquats ,3xlunges,3xleg press,3xleg curl,3xleg extensions,3xstanding calves raise)19 sets total including calves
WEDS:Shoulders(3xmilitary press,3xfront dumbell raise, 3x side dumbell raise)9 sets total 
Biceps(3x wide grip preacher curl,3x hammer curl, 3x reverse grip barbell curl)9 sets total
THURS:OFF
FRI:BACK(3x wide grip chin ups,4xdeadlift,3x lat pulldown,3x wide grip barbell rows)13 sets total
SAT:OFF
SUN:OFF

And typical day of diet looks like Breakfast: 6eggs 2yolk,slice of turkey breast 1 wheat english muffin, my own mccmuffin yogurt
2hrs later: whey protein
mid lunch: ckn breast or salmon with salad 
2hrs
before workout: mac & cheese with tuna or salmon with brown rice 
after workout: whey protein 
2hrs: ckn breast with salad or tilapia with greens
before bed:whey protein

Additional ?'s
what is ideal time for resting
When should i incorporate lower back and abs

Thank in advance for your help

----------


## eatrainrest

> Im 20 years old Male 
> Weight 170
> Height 5'10
> GOAL:to gain 20-30 lbs by next year*all on your diet*
> 
> My split is 
> MON:Chest(3xdb press,3xincline dbpress,3xcable fly,3xdecline barbell)12sets total
> *strip to around 9 sets*
> Triceps: (3xRope pulldown,3xDips,3xskullcrush) 9 sets total*stick to 6*
> ...


i dont liek chest tris, back bis, its explained in my first piost.. post diet in diet forum and ill take a look just throw my name in the title so ill see it

----------


## collar

hey eat can you critique my split.
i do
mon:
chest and biceps

tues: 
chest and triceps

wed:
rest by going out for a drink with the buddies

thurs:
chest and biceps

fri:
chest and triceps

sat:
quick half hour pump of chest, super set with biceps and triceps.
cause i am in hurry to go with the boys clubbing.

sunday:
rest by going out with the boys and eating out all day for a refeed..

 :Smilie: .................................................. .........................

----------


## Deltasaurus

For someone having trouble getting below 12% whos a Endo eating 2200kcal LBM 155, lifting 30-40mins a day 5 days a week plus wrestling 4 days a week what should i do. extra cardio or drop the cals, i wanna get down to 9-10%

----------


## eatrainrest

> hey eat can you critique my split.
> i do
> mon:
> chest and biceps
> 
> tues: 
> chest and triceps
> *you train chest back to back??*
> wed:
> ...


lol thanks for the sarcasm i thought you were serious up until the second time you said chest lolol...

----------


## eatrainrest

> For someone having trouble getting below 12% whos a Endo eating 2200kcal LBM 155, lifting 30-40mins a day 5 days a week plus wrestling 4 days a week what should i do. extra cardio or drop the cals, i wanna get down to 9-10%


generally speaking i always agree to extra cardio before sacrificing kcals... i would acrtually drop half and half (half kcals from food and subtract kcals from cardio) but thats if you really want to put yourself in a caloric deficicent state.

----------


## collar

> lol thanks for the sarcasm i thought you were serious up until the second time you said chest lolol...


LOL, you should have knew bro.

when you got to wednesday, where i mentioned drinking.
i have never drank in my life hehe.

----------


## collar

> lol thanks for the sarcasm i thought you were serious up until the second time you said chest lolol...


oops double posted..........................

----------


## tembe

Hey eatrainrest,

I was wondering if you could critique my workout? I am also using the Slingshot Training System. This is the blast workout phase with high volume training.
Deload I will cut the volume in half for a week.

Please let me know if its overtraining? Also taking 500mg Test E and 40mg Dbol 

I am currently bulking,

FAILING IN THE 6-10 REP RANGE
Tuesday – Chest and Abs
Warm up – 1 set of Dumbbell Flat Bench Press
4 sets of Dumbbell Flat Bench Press, 10, 8, 6, 4 reps
3 sets of Incline Dumbbell Press, 10, 8, 6 reps
3 sets of Decline Dumbbell Press, 10, 8, 6 reps
3 sets of Machine Press, 10, 8, 6 reps
3 sets of Machine Crunches, 10, 8, 6 reps
3 sets of Crunches, 10, 8, 6 reps

Wednesday – Back
4 sets of Deadlifts, 10, 8, 6, 4 reps
4 sets of Lat Pull Downs, 10, 8, 6, 4 reps
3 sets of Seated Cable Rows, 10, 8, 6 reps
3 sets of Pull ups, 10, 8, 6 reps

Thursday – Shoulders, Traps and Abs
Warm up – 1 set of Dumbbell Press
3 sets of Dumbbell Press, 10, 8, 6, reps
3 sets of Clean and Press, 10, 8, 6 reps
3 sets of Military Press, 10, 8, 6 reps
2 sets of Front Dumbbell Raises, 8, 6 reps
3 sets of Upright Rows, 10, 8, 6 reps
3 sets of Dumbbell Shrugs, 10, 8, 6 reps
3 sets of Machine Crunches, 10, 8, 6 reps
3 sets of Crunches, 10, 8, 6 reps

Friday – Rest Day

Saturday – Biceps and Triceps
Warm Up – 1 set of Dumbbell Curls
4 sets of Dumbbell Curls, 10, 8, 6, 4 reps
3 sets of Barbell Curls, 10, 8, 6 reps
3 sets of Incline Dumbbell Curls, 10, 8, 6 reps
Warm Up – 1 set of Triceps Cable Pressdowns
3 sets of Triceps Cable Pressdowns, 10, 8, 6 reps
3 sets of Skullcrushers, 10, 8, 6 reps
3 sets of Dips
4 sets of Dumbbell One-Arm Wrist Curls, 12, 10, 8, 6 reps
4 sets of Behind-The-Back Wrist Curls, 12, 10, 8, 6 reps

Sunday – Legs
Warm Up – 1 set of Squats
4 sets of Squats, 10, 8, 6, 4 reps
4 sets of Leg Press, 10, 8, 6 reps
4 sets of Leg Curls, 10, 8, 6, 4 reps
4 sets of Leg Extensions, 10, 8, 6, 4 reps
4 sets of Seated Calf Raises, 10, 8, 6, 4 reps

Monday – Rest Day

----------


## eatrainrest

> Hey eatrainrest,
> 
> I was wondering if you could critique my workout? I am also using the Slingshot Training System. This is the blast workout phase with high volume training.
> Deload I will cut the volume in half for a week.
> 
> Please let me know if its overtraining? Also taking 500mg Test E and 40mg Dbol 
> 
> I am currently bulking,
> 
> ...


looks good id just change the split and make advised chagnes above

----------


## tembe

Hows this EatRainRest, i made some adjustments,

Also taking 500mg Test E and 40mg Dbol 

I am currently bulking,

FAILING IN THE 6-10 REP RANGE

Tuesday – Chest
Warm up – 1 set of Dumbbell Flat Bench Press
4 sets of Dumbbell Flat Bench Press, 10, 8, 6, 4 reps
3 sets of Incline Dumbbell Press, 10, 8, 6 reps
3 sets of Decline Dumbbell Press, 10, 8, 6 reps
3 sets of Machine Press, 10, 8, 6 reps


Wednesday – Back
4 sets of Deadlifts, 10, 8, 6, 4 reps
3 sets of Pull ups, 10, 8, 6 reps
4 sets of Lat Pull Downs, 10, 8, 6, 4 reps
3 sets of Seated Cable Rows, 10, 8, 6 reps


Thursday – Shoulders, Traps and Abs
Warm up – 1 set of Dumbbell Press
3 sets of Dumbbell Press, 10, 8, 6, reps
3 sets of Clean and Press, 10, 8, 6 reps
3 sets of Military Press, 10, 8, 6 reps
3 sets of Arnold Press, 10, 8, 6 reps

3 sets of Upright Rows, 10, 8, 6 reps
3 sets of Dumbbell Shrugs, 10, 8, 6 reps

3 sets of Machine Crunches, 10, 8, 6 reps
3 sets of Crunches, 10, 8, 6 reps

Friday – Rest Day

Saturday – Biceps and Triceps
Warm Up – 1 set of Dumbbell Curls
4 sets of Dumbbell Curls, 10, 8, 6, 4 reps
3 sets of Barbell Curls, 10, 8, 6 reps
3 sets of Incline Dumbbell Curls, 10, 8, 6 reps
Warm Up – 1 set of Triceps Cable Pressdowns
3 sets of Triceps Cable Pressdowns, 10, 8, 6 reps
3 sets of Skullcrushers, 10, 8, 6 reps
3 sets of Dips
4 sets of Dumbbell One-Arm Wrist Curls, 12, 10, 8, 6 reps
4 sets of Behind-The-Back Wrist Curls, 12, 10, 8, 6 reps

Sunday – Legs
Warm Up – 1 set of Squats
4 sets of Squats, 10, 8, 6, 4 reps
4 sets of Leg Press, 10, 8, 6 reps
4 sets of Leg Extensions, 10, 8, 6, 4 reps
4 sets of Leg Curls, 10, 8, 6, 4 reps 
5 sets of Seated Calf Raises, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4 
5 sets of Standing Calf Raises, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4

Monday – Rest Day

----------


## eatrainrest

i would add stiff leg deads and throw in a posterior delt exercise.. you dont have one

----------


## tembe

what are some posterior delt exercises?

and what are stiff leg deads?

----------


## eatrainrest

> what are some posterior delt exercises?
> 
> and what are stiff leg deads?


stiff leg deadlift is the same as deadlift except your knees are almost fully bent.. i dont recommend fulyl bent because of the extreme pressure your knees will be under.. youtube it im sure you can find it... also posterior delts.. lets see it will be confusing to explain the form

1. sit alongside a flat bench with 2 dumbells
2. feet together, have your entire body bent over and your looking forward
3. elbows bent a little more than 90 degrees, with your pinkys out flare the dumbells liek reverse fly's.

----------


## tembe

thanks alot...i will add them in


cheers for the help

----------


## tembe

will back not be overtrained with those added exercises?

----------


## eatrainrest

nah your back should be fine especially if this is your reload.. understand that overtraining depoends on other factors as well.. diet, recovery, sleep..etc

----------


## tembe

yes, thanks for the help eatrainrest

----------


## eatrainrest

what added exercises? stiff leg=hams exercise

posterior delt is the other not back...

----------


## tembe

thanks. Lots of help

----------


## tembe

should i add more bicep and tricep sets or exercises during a reload?

----------


## eatrainrest

> should i add more bicep and tricep sets or exercises during a reload?


i would do 10 sets during reload

----------


## tembe

how many sets would you do for a major muscle like chest during a reload?

----------


## eatrainrest

> how many sets would you do for a major muscle like chest during a reload?


larger mucsle groups 12

smaller-about 8-10 is my recommendation... ronnie likes 12 all around but i feel it may be too much if your really working the muscle to failure

----------


## aaron1mix

Wow! Just the thread I have been looking for. Thanks for putting in your time to help us out.

I need a little help breaking through my plateau. I am just starting wk 5 of my cycle. I took 1 wk off before I started and switched up my routine. Here is my current routine.

Mon - chest/bis
warmup
Dumbell Flys - 5 sets (2 warmup 10-12 reps, 3 - 4-8 reps)
Bench - 10 reps, 6-8, 4-6
Decline Bench - 8 reps, 4-6, 2-4
Straight Bar Curls - 5 sets (2 warmup 10-12 reps, 3 - 4-8 reps)
Hammer Curls - 10, 6-8, 4-6
Isolation Curls - 10, 6-8, 4-6
*Note: Each Workout day follows the same rep pattern. 2 warmup sets for each major muscle group followed by 3 sets of progressive weight added.*

Tues - legs/forearms
Squat - 5 sets
Leg Press
Calf Raises
Leg Curls
Leg Extensions
Forearm Curls

Wed - off

Thurs - Back/Tris
Bent Over Row - 5 sets
Hammer grip cable pulls
Lat Pulldown
Curl Bar overhead extensions
Bench bar lying down extension (close grip)
rope pulldowns

Fri - Shoulders
Shrugs - 5 sets
Overhead Dumbell Press
Side Arm extensions
Lateral Raises
-don't know what to call it (start with a hammer grip on dumbells at the waist and raise the dumbells to parallel with my shoulders) 3 sets

I have a couple of questions on top of the workout routine. 
After 1 month should I switch the routine completely?
Is there a time during cycle that a 1 week training break should be taken, or is the slingshot method preffered over time off?
To delve even deeper, how often should recovery time be performed during training and for how long? ie; 8 wks training 1 wk off, 12 wks training, 1 wk off...
I actually lost strenght this last week and performed less reps with the same weight as the week before. A little disheartening when your finally seeing gains again after years of training - any thoughts?

I know it's a lot of questions and if your able to take to the time to help me out, I really appreciate it. Just trying to keep my enthusiam for the gym. Can't get my bench past 205.

----------


## eatrainrest

> Wow! Just the thread I have been looking for. Thanks for putting in your time to help us out.
> 
> I need a little help breaking through my plateau. I am just starting wk 5 of my cycle. I took 1 wk off before I started and switched up my routine. Here is my current routine.
> 
> Mon - chest/bis
> warmup
> Dumbell Flys - 5 sets (2 warmup 10-12 reps, 3 - 4-8 reps)
> Bench - 10 reps, 6-8, 4-6
> Decline Bench - 8 reps, 4-6, 2-4
> ...



id be glad to help but first i need all your stats including age, how long youve been running the routine, sets/reps per exercise, body part, etc.

----------


## aaron1mix

Sorry Bro, I was afraid my layout would be hard to read. Every day follows the same set/rep pattern as monday.

Sets 2 and 3 are normally between 4-6 reps, depending on how good I feel that day.

Example: set #/reps = (1/12)
Thurs - Back/Tris (body part)
Bent over row - 5 sets, 1/12 (30% of max), 2/10 (50% of max), 3/8 (75% of max), 4/6 (85% of max), 5/4 (90-95% of max)
Hammer Grip cable pulls - 1/8 (75% of max), 2/6 (85% of max), 3/4 (90-95% of max)
Lat Pulldown - 1/8, 2/6, 3/4
Curl Bar overhead extensions - 1/8, 2/6, 3/4
Olympic bar lying down extensions - 1/8, 2/6, 3/4
rope pulldowns - 1/8, 2/6, 3/4

I have been on this routine for 4.5 weeks. I am in the middle of week 5. My cycle is 12 weeks, 3 off then PCT weeks 15-18.

All the stats in my profile are accurate, 30yrs old. 

I am in the 3rd month of a bulking diet. My plan is to deload during my PCT and cut after PCT is done. I primed my diet before I started my cycle. I have a very fast metabolism and small body structure so my goal is to get to 205 (for now) Not sure if I can get heavier than that by I will sure try.

I started my program at 167 and am currently at 178 as of Monday.

I am not able to workout with a partner so I am running solo. It's hard to push a max but it does help with form.

My TDEE is 2800 and here are my macros from Monday. I keep a daily log.
cal/pro/carb/fat
3417.5/360.75/284.5/92.75

----------


## eatrainrest

> Sorry Bro, I was afraid my layout would be hard to read. Every day follows the same set/rep pattern as monday.
> *yea it was a little confused*
> Sets 2 and 3 are normally between 4-6 reps, depending on how good I feel that day.
> 
> Example: set #/reps = (1/12)
> Thurs - Back/Tris (body part)
> Bent over row - 5 sets, 1/12 (30% of max), 2/10 (50% of max), 3/8 (75% of max), 4/6 (85% of max), 5/4 (90-95% of max)
> Hammer Grip cable pulls - 1/8 (75% of max), 2/6 (85% of max), 3/4 (90-95% of max)
> Lat Pulldown - 1/8, 2/6, 3/4
> ...


i also dont liek doign back traps... here this is how you should lay it out cuz i am only quoting on one post here...

back-12 sets
chest-10 sets.. etc. etc

and list exercises for each, like i did for back.. so you just got a taste for what id do for back now just post up the rest of yoru split kinda like i set it up above so i could further critique the rest of your workout regimen

----------


## aaron1mix

OK Thanks. Here is another breakdown. Hopefully it makes it easier to read. I do do my reps to failure. I use my max as my 1 rep max. ie; 100lb= 1 rep max. 90% = 90lb/4 reps to failure. Hope that makes more sense.

*Mon*
_11 Sets Chest_ 
5 sets dumbell flies (first 2 sets warmup)
3 sets flat bench
3 sets decline bench
_11 Sets Biceps_ 
5 sets Flat bar Curls (first 2 sets warmup)
3 sets hammer curls
3 sets isolation curls

*Tues*
_17 sets legs_ 
5 sets squats (first 2 sets warmup)
3 sets leg press
3 sets calf raises
3 sets leg curls
3 sets leg extensions
_3 sets forearms_
3 sets forearm curls

Wed - off

*Thurs*
_11 sets back_ 
5 sets bent over rows (first 2 sets warmup)
3 sets hammer grip cable rows
3 sets wide grip lat pulldowns
_11 sets triceps_ 
5 sets curl bar overhead extensions (first 2 sets warmup)
3 sets olympic bar lying down overhead extensions
3 sets rope pulldowns

*Fri*
_17 sets shoulders_
5 sets Shrugs (first 2 sets warmup)
3 sets overhead dumbell press
3 sets sidearm extensions
3 sets lateral raises
3 sets dumbell from hip to shoulder raises
Leg lifts and crunches

Some weekends I will take 1 day and do my core, pushups, pullups, situps...

Thanks for your help. I think we are on the same page now. Hopefully this is what you are looking for.

----------


## eatrainrest

> OK Thanks. Here is another breakdown. Hopefully it makes it easier to read. I do do my reps to failure. I use my max as my 1 rep max. ie; 100lb= 1 rep max. 90% = 90lb/4 reps to failure. Hope that makes more sense.
> 
> *Mon*
> _11 Sets Chest_ 
> 5 sets dumbell flies (first 2 sets warmup)
> 3 sets flat bench
> 3 sets decline bench
> *start with flat, decline then flies and chop to liek 9*
> _11 Sets Biceps_ 
> ...



those are some changes i would make, the split isnt bad at all tho... except that during back workouts you work out your posterior delts so doing them the day after would probly be overtraining that muscle group

----------


## aaron1mix

Thanks again Bro. 

From your advice it looks like I might have been overtraining, probably why all my weights have went down this week.

I'm a little curious about the standard 9 sets though. Is that 9 sets including warmup? Basically my 11 sets are only 9 because the warmup weight is just to get the blood flowing to that muscle group, should I drop those?

Sorry I have so many questions, I have been training for so long and I don't think I have ever really had it spot on, training or diet. I've got it all dialed in now so I want to make sure I get the most out of my body.

Since I am cutting down my bis and tris from 9 sets to 6, my workouts will only be 45min. Is that enough training time or should I just throw in 15min of LI cardio at the end?

When it comes time to switch the routine, do I keep the major muscle group excersizes, ie; flat bench, squats, shrugs, bent over row and just switch them to dumbells or should I change the entire split completely, ie; Chest/Tris, Back/Bis...? 

This should be it for my questions. I'll keep up the hard work and hopefully with your advice, I'll fall in love with the Gym again and get f*&king huge!

----------


## eatrainrest

> Thanks again Bro. 
> 
> From your advice it looks like I might have been overtraining, probably why all my weights have went down this week.
> 
> I'm a little curious about the standard 9 sets though. Is that 9 sets including warmup? Basically my 11 sets are only 9 because the warmup weight is just to get the blood flowing to that muscle group, should I drop those?
> *well depends what intensity your warming up at... i dont count warmup sets i usually do 1 light warmup set after a cardio LI warmup for 5 minutes.*
> Sorry I have so many questions, I have been training for so long and I don't think I have ever really had it spot on, training or diet. I've got it all dialed in now so I want to make sure I get the most out of my body.
> 
> Since I am cutting down my bis and tris from 9 sets to 6, my workouts will only be 45min. Is that enough training time or should I just throw in 15min of LI cardio at the end?
> ...



ronnies slingshot may be your ticket as well because it mixes HIT and low volume, which is what everhydbnoy needs IMO is a mix of the two. again, ill bump my cardio thread. ronnies thread is the 1st sticky if you havent seen it yet

----------


## aaron1mix

Thanks 1 more time! I appreciate the bump, I was checking that thread out. I also like Ronnies slingshot method. Long read though haven't gotten through the whole thing but I will by the time I switch my split. I'll make your changes and keep running through this. 

I'll post my results in a few months after a couple routine changes and half a year of proper diet and training under my belt. 

Thanks for all your help and time.

----------


## eatrainrest

> Thanks 1 more time! I appreciate the bump, I was checking that thread out. I also like Ronnies slingshot method. Long read though haven't gotten through the whole thing but I will by the time I switch my split. I'll make your changes and keep running through this. 
> 
> I'll post my results in a few months after a couple routine changes and half a year of proper diet and training under my belt. 
> 
> Thanks for all your help and time.


sure, id go a step further and say taht if youve been doing 8+ REPS, switch over to 4 reps max first 2 sets and 12 reps max the last set of every 3 set compound exercise like squat, leg press, bench presses.

set 1-4
set 2-4 reps
set 3-12 reps

make sure its max! and you will see insane strength gains, given that you are training at a lower volume from current, along with other protocols such as diet, etc.

----------


## PC650

eatrainrest you have good advice bro!! what do you think about training middle delts twice a week one day heavy the other half the weight at controlled negatives!! 3 sets each day so not over killing them, monday amd thurs only

----------


## eatrainrest

> eatrainrest you have good advice bro!! what do you think about training middle delts twice a week one day heavy the other half the weight at controlled negatives!! 3 sets each day so not over killing them, monday amd thurs only


thanks, well in regards to heavy and light, it depends what exercise. i dont think exercises like upright rows should be performed with heavy weight and low reps because of the high risk of injury involved in the movement. 3 sets of medial delts twice a week would not be achieving the best results. your better off once a week hitting it 6 working sets, and throw some 3 sets of rear delts for total of 9 for delts, all at 100 percent intensity.

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## jrmy

sweet post,you think i could go by all these calculators for my diet program?
are they actually accurate?

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## eatrainrest

> sweet post,you think i could go by all these calculators for my diet program?
> are they actually accurate?


it would help if you were specific on what calculators you were referring to

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## jrmy

> it would help if you were specific on what calculators you were referring to


well the caloric needs calculator,then onto the calories from fat/carbs/protein calculator

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## eatrainrest

> well the caloric needs calculator,then onto the calories from fat/carbs/protein calculator


your caloric needs will be based on your BMR, which takes accurate body fat calcs to get those numbers correct.. then it depends on how many kcals you burn during activity

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## jrmy

> your caloric needs will be based on your BMR, which takes accurate body fat calcs to get those numbers correct.. then it depends on how many kcals you burn during activity


oh ok.but those are accurate after all that is measured?
i always though more calories should be from protein and fat than carbs..

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## eatrainrest

> oh ok.but those are accurate after all that is measured?
> i always though more calories should be from protein and fat than carbs..


yea they will be fairly accurate. sorry it took me some time to get to this question. it will depend on your goals regarding macro proportions. if you bulk you will generally need more carbs, less fats, moderate protein. and cutting you will need less carbs, more fats, high protein.

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## jrmy

> yea they will be fairly accurate. sorry it took me some time to get to this question. it will depend on your goals regarding macro proportions. if you bulk you will generally need more carbs, less fats, moderate protein. and cutting you will need less carbs, more fats, high protein.


thats cool bro,at least yur helping 
i do appreciate the advice very much so

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## eatrainrest

bump

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## johnCash

hey man, i was wondering if you could help me get a new workout routine. right now im just gona take a week off cause ive been training hard for the last 2 months straight and im getting a bit sore too. is a week long enough rest? ive been doing about 14 weeks of 4,4,12 program with some different exersices but i need to start doing all new exersices cause im starting to plateau with the ones im doing. so should i change the workout completely or stay with the 4,4,12 and dif exersices?

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## eatrainrest

> hey man, i was wondering if you could help me get a new workout routine. right now im just gona take a week off cause ive been training hard for the last 2 months straight and im getting a bit sore too. is a week long enough rest? ive been doing about 14 weeks of 4,4,12 program with some different exersices but i need to start doing all new exersices cause im starting to plateau with the ones im doing. so should i change the workout completely or stay with the 4,4,12 and dif exersices?


i would advise changing both rep ranges and exercises and allow your body to fully adapt to the new training regimen. would have much better input if you supplied a workout that was in higher rep ranges for critique-example 8-15 rep range rather than 4.

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## johnCash

ok ill pick some new exercises and post the new workout when i have time. also im doing alot of dumbell exercises right now, so should i switch to all barbell and machine exercises? cause free weights usually work best for me

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## eatrainrest

> ok ill pick some new exercises and post the new workout when i have time. also im doing alot of dumbell exercises right now, so should i switch to all barbell and machine exercises? cause free weights usually work best for me


you can still work with free weights just mix up exercises and add other machines at your preference

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## MotoLifter

hey eatrainrest, what are your thoughts on DC training? I'm following that split now and have been seing some GREAT results. Sorry if you covered this already, couldnt read everything. Thanks man,

moto

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## eatrainrest

> hey eatrainrest, what are your thoughts on DC training? I'm following that split now and have been seing some GREAT results. Sorry if you covered this already, couldnt read everything. Thanks man,
> 
> moto


i dont have any prior experience using this method but if its working all the power to you. i find the best to be alternating high and low volume like the whole slingshot theory.

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