# MEMBERS EXPERIENCES > TRAINING/DIET/CYCLE ACCOUNTABILITY LOGS >  Gearheadeds crazy EXPERIMENTS log

## GearHeaded

Gearheaded’s "crazy experiments” log (maybe they won't all be crazy)

So as most of you guys already know, I’m the type of guy that likes to run experiments on myself. Making my living and career out of being a gym owner, personal trainer, and coach, the more practical experience I have, on top of all the educational knowledge I try to obtain, the better it is for me and my clients.

So this Log is going to be a log of my “experiments” that I conduct. From all my drug cycling protocols, diet protocols, to training and recovering theories. 
I’ll simply log what I’m doing and the effects that these things are having. Pretty simple. Heck I may even take ‘experiment’ requests from you guys on occasions.

Lets quickly set the context though, of where I’m at and where I’m trying to go.

Many of you know that the last few years for me have been pretty rough in regards to any bodybuilding pursuits. I’ve had a host of injuries, 4 major surgeries, spent a year crippled and bed ridden losing 40 pounds of muscle, car accident, some other health issues, recovering from addiction to pain meds.. etc etc..
But fu_k it. I’m still kicking and can still go after it. I’ve got some physical restrictions, but don’t we all have our issues. So I’m going to grind and do what I can with what I got.

So the main goal of my experiments here is to get myself some more size, and then get pretty jacked and lean. 

Stats currently
41 years old
5’9.5” height 
207 pounds
fairly small framed, 7” wrists, and wear 29” waisted pants

couple pics of where I’m at 





will list what I'm currently running now and my next experiment plans in next post

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## Kay kay

I'm excited for this

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## Obs

Hell yeah, sounds like a kick ass thread.

You are still a big guy after all you lost and went through. Gonna follow this one close

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## Cowboymike

Hell yeah, following this one ;0)

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## GearHeaded

My current insulin and GH protocol 
10iu Novalin R upon waking - with 30g whey isolate and 30-40 carbs
10iu Novalin R preworkout - with my intra workout shake
15iu Novalin R post workout - 50g whey isolate and 50-70g carbs

Came off of HGH a few weeks ago. Taking MK677 25mg a night at the moment. YES I like to come off HGH on occasions and use either GHRPs or secretagogues to get natty pulses going for a time.



the Insulin and GH protocol I'm switching to within a couple weeks

45iu insulin and 10iu HGH on training days
20iu insulin on days off , no HGH on days off


Lantus insulin - 10iu before bed 
Metformin - 500mg per day with last meal of day
MK677 - 25mg before bed

Novalin R insulin - 10iu in morning with meal 1
HGH - 5iu with meal 1
Mk677 - 25mg

HGH - 5iu with pre workout meal
Humalog insulin 10iu pre workout
Humalog insulin 15iu post workout

T4 - 125mcg per day

the HGH is 10iu per day but only on large body part training days.. and obviously no humalog on non training days, but will still be using Novalin and Lantus on days off.
This will be the first time I run HGH only on training days at that high of a dosage. in the past I've always ran lower doses daily

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## GearHeaded

AAS

just did a phase change from 1250mg test, 900mg nandrolone (npp and deca ), 50mg Dbol (running that for a few weeks) .. to now
500mg test
400mg Npp
500mg Deca
60mg Dbol day
400mg Mast E
100mg Mast P (eod)

note on the Dbol - I was running 20mg upon waking with my insulin dose then 30mg pre workout. now I'm running 10mg upon waking and 50mg pre-workout .
I'll run this as my oral for about another 10 days . then I'll be switching over to Winstrol . and again I'll be taking a dose of Winstrol first thing in the morning.

whats my reason for insulin and an oral steroid first thing in the morning ? to smash elevated cortisol levels which generally spike over night.

I'll go over how my current stack will be changing as I ease into the next phase of this cycle in the upcoming weeks in another post

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## GearHeaded

as for my crazy DIET experiment ...

I'm going Vegan ! 

Uggghh, hell no, that was a joke. I may try a pound of NY strip steak a day though

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## Obs

> as for my crazy DIET experiment ...
> 
> I'm going Vegan ! 
> 
> Uggghh, hell no, that was a joke. I may try a pound of NY strip steak a day though


You had me worried

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## GearHeaded

> You had me worried


I'm not that crazy . I'm crazy in a kinda good way, but going vegan umm that may actually technically be crazy

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## Obs

> I'm not that crazy . I'm crazy in a kinda good way, but going vegan umm that may actually technically be crazy


I cant imagine it.
I would fall apart in a week with my job

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## Old Duffer

Soooo following!

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## charger69

> You had me worried


Me to. I am glad that I finished reading. 


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## Charlie67

What's the rationale behind taking both Mast P and Mast E? Or are you planning to drop the P after a few weeks?

As for the veganism, I support whatever you believe is the right thing for you.


Kidding. No I don't. Meat is delicious.

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## kelkel

> Stats currently
> 41 years old
> *5’9.5” height* 
> 207 pounds
> fairly small framed, 7” wrists, and wear 29” waisted pants



That half inch is important dammit!

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## HoldMyBeer

> That half inch is important dammit!


It is! I feel like I'm lying if I round up, and feel short if I round down. So I would do the same thing!

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## guitarzan

Do you take requests...lol

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## GearHeaded

> What's the rationale behind taking both Mast P and Mast E? Or are you planning to drop the P after a few weeks?.


well sometimes I do things based on pure practicality rather then 'science' . I've got a bunch of bottles of mast prop, yet just one bottle of mast e sitting there , so I'm just using up that bottle of mast e. once thats gone it will be 100mg of Mast prop every day.

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## GearHeaded

> That half inch is important dammit!



well it kinda is to a point. I plan on doing a classic physique show next summer. I'm in Division B , with max weight of 197 pounds having to be BETWEEN 5'9 and 5'10" . IF I came in at just above 5'10 or just under 5'9 that would change my weigh in requirements.
5'9.5" tall puts me exactly where I need to be for that 197 pound cut off

edit- that kinda sounds like I precisely planned to be 5'9.5" tall eh  :Smilie:

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## charger69

> well it kinda is to a point. I plan on doing a classic physique show next summer. I'm in Division B , with max weight of 197 pounds having to be BETWEEN 5'9 and 5'10" . IF I came in at just above 5'10 or just under 5'9 that would change my weigh in requirements.
> 5'9.5" tall puts me exactly where I need to be for that 197 pound cut off
> 
> edit- that kinda sounds like I precisely planned to be 5'9.5" tall eh


I was going to comment the same thing as your edit. LOL


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## charger69

> well sometimes I do things based on pure practicality rather then 'science' . I've got a bunch of bottles of mast prop, yet just one bottle of mast e sitting there , so I'm just using up that bottle of mast e. once thats gone it will be 100mg of Mast prop every day.


You let me down! I was expecting this big explanation on 1/2 life, synergy between oils and nutrient partitioning. LOL


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## GearHeaded

Training --

ok so I just came off a 12 week training block. it was a 12 week macro cycle, with individual micro cycles that alternated from mechanical tension phases, to more volume and metabolite phases. it was push, pull, legs, with an added arm day.
so week one (or micro cycle one) would be more heavier weights and mechanical tension focused for all workouts (8-12 rep range), then week two (or micro cycle two) would be more volume and higher reps with a metabolite and blood flow focus (reps were not counted it was all about 'feel', but probably in the 12-30 rep range depending on exercise.)

anyhow I'm ready for a new 'macro' cycle (training block, workout split, etc). I may change things up completely. 

I'm open to suggestions (HIT, high volume, two a days, super high frequency, etc..)

until I get it all planned out I'm just doing push pull legs with a more instinctive style training. with some added touch up work days.

one 'experiment' I'm thinking of trying (and I've already somewhat started) is every day training with no days off. sure you have high intensity days, moderate days, and light touch up work days, but you don't take planned days off. this would only work in a hyper-caloric state and a high drug use state (which I'm doing both).

just an idea . but again I'm open to ideas for a 'training split experiment"

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## charger69

> Training --
> 
> ok so I just came off a 12 week training block. it was a 12 week macro cycle, with individual micro cycles that alternated from mechanical tension phases, to more volume and metabolite phases. it was push, pull, legs, with an added arm day.
> so week one (or micro cycle one) would be more heavier weights and mechanical tension focused for all workouts (8-12 rep range), then week two (or micro cycle two) would be more volume and higher reps with a metabolite and blood flow focus (reps were not counted it was all about 'feel', but probably in the 12-30 rep range depending on exercise.)
> 
> anyhow I'm ready for a new 'macro' cycle (training block, workout split, etc). I may change things up completely. 
> 
> I'm open to suggestions (HIT, high volume, two a days, super high frequency, etc..)
> 
> ...


What about working out 3x day for a max of 30-40 minutes each. A different muscle group each session. Go in and kill the muscle. Limit the rest time. I was in my 20s and this routine is what started me growing. I would do it if I had time, just to see. 


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## GearHeaded

> What about working out 3x day for a max of 30-40 minutes each. A different muscle group each session. Go in and kill the muscle. Limit the rest time. I was in my 20’s and this routine is what started me growing. I would do it if I had time, just to see.


so putting that together with say for example a push pull legs.. it would look something like this?

Day 1 push
workout 1 Chest
workout 2 Delts
workout 3 triceps

Day 2 pull
workout 1 Lats and mid back
workout 2 traps and rear delts
workout 3 biceps

Day 3 legs
workout 1 hamstrings
workout 2 quads
workout 3 glutes and calves

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## charger69

> so putting that together with say for example a push pull legs.. it would look something like this?
> 
> Day 1 push
> workout 1 Chest
> workout 2 Delts
> workout 3 triceps
> 
> Day 2 pull
> workout 1 Lats and mid back
> ...


Yes. It worked when I was young, I am assuming because of all of the natural test. It should work with high chemicals. If you do try it, let me know how it goes.


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## GearHeaded

> Yes. It worked when I was young, I am assuming because of all of the natural test. It should work with high chemicals. If you do try it, let me know how it goes.


ok , yeah whatever I end up doing I will definitely lay it all out in details on this thread and log the results as I go.

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## Capebuffalo

> What about working out 3x day for a max of 30-40 minutes each. A different muscle group each session. Go in and kill the muscle. Limit the rest time. I was in my 20s and this routine is what started me growing. I would do it if I had time, just to see. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You must have had a good horse if you were taking a horse and buggy to the gym 3x a day in your 20s. Did Mr. Sandow train there too?

Sorry couldnt resist.

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## charger69

> You must have had a good horse if you were taking a horse and buggy to the gym 3x a day in your 20s. 
> 
> Sorry couldnt resist.


Actually, it was in a garage. It was fing cold in the winter especially when it got down to -30. 
That was dedication!

BTW- we were poor no horses. I would walk through 3 feet of snow uphill both ways. LOL


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## Obs

> so putting that together with say for example a push pull legs.. it would look something like this?
> 
> Day 1 push
> workout 1 Chest
> workout 2 Delts
> workout 3 triceps
> 
> Day 2 pull
> workout 1 Lats and mid back
> ...


I like that split a lot

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## charger69

> I like that split a lot


I agree, but it is taxing on the CNS if done right. 
It may be difficult for GH because he will need to ignore people during that time. 


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## Capebuffalo

> so putting that together with say for example a push pull legs.. it would look something like this?
> 
> Day 1 push
> workout 1 Chest
> workout 2 Delts
> workout 3 triceps
> 
> Day 2 pull
> workout 1 Lats and mid back
> ...


I like it 2 weeks before a show when you are depleted and beat to shit. But I don’t have the time to hit 3 body parts. I’ve got to be in and out in less than an hour. I’m a one part a day type guy.

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## BG

Sorry if I missed, what brand GH?

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## charger69

> I like it 2 weeks before a show when you are depleted and beat to shit. But I dont have the time to hit 3 body parts. Ive got to be in and out in less than an hour. Im a one part a day type guy.


Wimp!!


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## GearHeaded

> Sorry if I missed, what brand GH?


I had been using Eurotropin for quite awhile. Have some Somtatropin to finish up. but then I'm open to trying something new.

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## GearHeaded

> one 'experiment' I'm thinking of trying (and I've already somewhat started) is every day training with no days off. sure you have high intensity days, moderate days, and light touch up work days, but you don't take planned days off. this would only work in a hyper-caloric state and a high drug use state (which I'm doing both).
> 
> just an idea . but again I'm open to ideas for a 'training split experiment"


don't think its going to be long for this little experiment to be considered a failure . I'm on my 10th day in a row of working out with no breaks .. I crashed pretty damn hard in the middle of my workout today. totally drained and unable to finish. 
(I know I know, most you guys would of told me that was going to happen)

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## Capebuffalo

> don't think its going to be long for this little experiment to be considered a failure . I'm on my 10th day in a row of working out with no breaks .. I crashed pretty damn hard in the middle of my workout today. totally drained and unable to finish. 
> (I know I know, most you guys would of told me that was going to happen)


I could have told you that would happen.  :Wink: 
But I have a physically demanding job. Not as much as Obs. But I’m constantly moving or carrying heavy shit on a daily bases. I have to have recovery time. That’s why I have to go to the gym early in the morning. I’m too beat after work. But I feel bad if I miss a training day even though I’m sure it’s needed.

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## GearHeaded

> I could have told you that would happen. 
> But I have a physically demanding job. Not as much as Obs. But I’m constantly moving or carrying heavy shit on a daily bases. I have to have recovery time. That’s why I have to go to the gym early in the morning. I’m too beat after work. But I feel bad if I miss a training day even though I’m sure it’s needed.


well I feel for you. I owned a contracting company for a lot of years. putting in a hard laborous day for 10+ hours both physically and mentally takes its toll. bout the only physical thing you want to do after work is lift a beer. 
much easier and efficient to put on muscle when your physical efforts are more directed and specified for your goals

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## Obs

> I could have told you that would happen. 
> But I have a physically demanding job. Not as much as Obs. But I’m constantly moving or carrying heavy shit on a daily bases. I have to have recovery time. That’s why I have to go to the gym early in the morning. I’m too beat after work. But I feel bad if I miss a training day even though I’m sure it’s needed.





> well I feel for you. I owned a contracting company for a lot of years. putting in a hard laborous day for 10+ hours both physically and mentally takes its toll. bout the only physical thing you want to do after work is lift a beer. 
> much easier and efficient to put on muscle when your physical efforts are more directed and specified for your goals


You guys keep reminding me how much I dont wanna do what I gotta do.

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## GearHeaded

Training 

think I'll take about a week or so de-load with a traditional 'bro split' for that time. chest day, back day, arm day, shoulder day, leg day (this will help me rest up only hitting each body part once per week)

then I'll turn that into a high frequency bro split with two a days (that way each body part is hit twice per week rather then just once).

day 1
AM workout - chest (press/compound focus)
PM workout - back (lat focus)
day. 2 
AM workout - arms
PM workout - shoulders (compound focus)
day 3
one workout only - legs (quad focus)
day 4 off
day 5
AM workout - chest (isolation focus)
PM workout - back (mid back focus)
day 6
AM workout - arms
PM workout - shoulders (isolation focus)
day 7
one workout only - legs (hamstring focus)
off
repeat

pretty simple split - but maybe thats what I need right now, just some basic meat and potatoes stuff

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## GearHeaded

note : I generally don't program traditional 'bro splits' (one body part per week) for myself or most clients. but for a de-load phase or short term maintenance phase I think they are ideal.

of course I'm not trying to maintain right now. so this would only last about a week or two. then its back to high frequency

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## GearHeaded

> You guys keep reminding me how much I dont wanna do what I gotta do.


well doing what you gotta do, thats the brass tacks.. thats where shit gets real and really matters . all this gym and training stuff is just bonus fluff we do for fun and to stay sane

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## Obs

> well doing what you gotta do, thats the brass tacks.. thats where shit gets real and really matters . all this gym and training stuff is just bonus fluff we do for fun and to stay sane


But but but... Lifting feels more important!

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## Capebuffalo

> well doing what you gotta do, thats the brass tacks.. thats where shit gets real and really matters . all this gym and training stuff is just bonus fluff we do for fun and to stay sane


Stay sane is right. Keeps me from yelling and punching people in the face.

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## charger69

> But but but... Lifting feels more important!


It is very important, but it doesnt pay the bills. 


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## charger69

> Stay sane is right. Keeps me from yelling and punching people in the face.


Except when people at the gym interfere with your stress deload by taking up a piece of equipment and texting on the phone!


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## Obs

> It is very important, but it doesn’t pay the bills. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Shut up charger...

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## charger69

> Shut up charger...


Unless you own a gym like GH!!
I think he should change the name to GearHeads Gym. 


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## Couchlockd

GH, have you tried "high intensity interval thinking about training"??

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## GearHeaded

> GH, have you tried "high intensity interval thinking about training"??


give me an example of what your referring to

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## Charlie67

> Except when people at the gym interfere with your stress deload by taking up a piece of equipment and texting on the phone!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There was a smoking hot girl at the gym tonight in the squat rack.... Doing hip-thrusts...

I was fine with it.

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## Capebuffalo

> give me an example of what your referring to


He’s saying to sit on the couch and think about training. Not actually training. Like putting a book under you pillow at night and learn through osmosis type shit. 

He’s silly.

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## Charlie67

I bought a self learning record to learn Spanish. I turned it on and went to sleep; the record got stuck. The next day I could only stutter in Spanish.
 Steven Wright

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## GearHeaded

EXPERIMENT idea--

so most of you guys know I prefer to run 'phase' cycles and practice compound rotation. Phase 1 of my current cycle was my estrogenic/androgenic phase where I was running 1250mg test and some Dbol etc. with no AI. I'm into phase 2 right now which is the Anabolic phase (androgens get lowered and my high dosages are mainly anabolic based compounds like Nandrolone ). Phase 3 is going to be my anti-estrogenic 'dry' phase where test drops way off, and dry compounds become the basis of the cycle (masteron , winstrol , primobolan ). IF during this phase I want a bit more androgens, then I'll simply throw in some Tren to accomplish this, rather then test (again its a dry phase)

ok , now for the experiment idea.

instead of adding tren to stage 3 in the normal way I'd of done it. which would simply be to add in 50-75mg a day to the cycle with the Ace ester. I'll use a long ester 'blast' for a short duration. something like 1250mg of Tren E per week but for only 3 weeks (thats simply 2 bottles of tren e).
now why would I blast a long ester at such a high dosage and short length of time?

I explain some of that in this post here--
https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...ome-input.html

post 8 and post 12


if you read that other post and understand where I'm coming from . what do you think about utilizing that same concept but with Tren at the tail end of this cycle ?

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## GearHeaded

for those that didn't have the time to read the other thread where I explain the concept of why you would run a long ester drug at a very high dosage but for a short amount of time-- heres a quick conclusion.

example EQ-
say you were going to run 10,000mg of EQ . well instead of running 10,000mg over 20 weeks, which is 500mg per week. you could run 1500mg of EQ per week but for only 7 weeks.
now why would you want to do this?
Well , so you could utilize that 10,000mg total of EQ in a short time and hurry up and get to your next compound of say Deca at 1000mg for 10 weeks . now you've done both EQ and Deca at high dosages, in a shorter amount of time then you would have by only doing low dose of EQ over a long 20 week cycle.
you get a lot more done basically . cause YES your body will utilize these long esters, every single mg you inject. wither its 10,000mg over 20 weeks or 10,000mg over 7 weeks. I'd rather get it done in the 7 weeks so I can keep growing and move on to the next compound.
this is part of the idea of 'compound rotation' in phase cycling .

note -- of course this can be taken to the extreme and guys say 'well why not just inject all 10,000mg in one day' .. um come on , I'm sill being reasonable here

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## GearHeaded

ATTENTION CASUAL READERS OF THIS THREAD

my dosages of AAS may appear high to you. please don't take this at a surface level and think that you too should run those dosages..
the way that I use AAS is much different then what you'll see a lot of guys doing. 
IF I'm running a gram of Deca per week, I'm not running it for 14 weeks like a traditional deca cycle may be. I'm just blasting it at a higher dosage for a shorter amount of time as part of a phase of my cycle in its compound rotation.
so in reality, in the big picture, I may be running less over all Deca then it appears on the surface compared to traditional 12-16 week cycles.

just want you casual observers to keep that in mind

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## charger69

> for those that didn't have the time to read the other thread where I explain the concept of why you would run a long ester drug at a very high dosage but for a short amount of time-- heres a quick conclusion.
> 
> example EQ-
> say you were going to run 10,000mg of EQ . well instead of running 10,000mg over 20 weeks, which is 500mg per week. you could run 1500mg of EQ per week but for only 7 weeks.
> now why would you want to do this?
> Well , so you could utilize that 10,000mg total of EQ in a short time and hurry up and get to your next compound of say Deca at 1000mg for 10 weeks . now you've done both EQ and Deca at high dosages, in a shorter amount of time then you would have by only doing low dose of EQ over a long 20 week cycle.
> you get a lot more done basically . cause YES your body will utilize these long esters, every single mg you inject. wither its 10,000mg over 20 weeks or 10,000mg over 7 weeks. I'd rather get it done in the 7 weeks so I can keep growing and move on to the next compound.
> this is part of the idea of 'compound rotation' in phase cycling .
> 
> note -- of course this can be taken to the extreme and guys say 'well why not just inject all 10,000mg in one day' .. um come on , I'm sill being reasonable here


Yeah, but Obs isnt reasonable- dont give him crazy ideas!!!


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## charger69

> for those that didn't have the time to read the other thread where I explain the concept of why you would run a long ester drug at a very high dosage but for a short amount of time-- heres a quick conclusion.
> 
> example EQ-
> say you were going to run 10,000mg of EQ . well instead of running 10,000mg over 20 weeks, which is 500mg per week. you could run 1500mg of EQ per week but for only 7 weeks.
> now why would you want to do this?
> Well , so you could utilize that 10,000mg total of EQ in a short time and hurry up and get to your next compound of say Deca at 1000mg for 10 weeks . now you've done both EQ and Deca at high dosages, in a shorter amount of time then you would have by only doing low dose of EQ over a long 20 week cycle.
> you get a lot more done basically . cause YES your body will utilize these long esters, every single mg you inject. wither its 10,000mg over 20 weeks or 10,000mg over 7 weeks. I'd rather get it done in the 7 weeks so I can keep growing and move on to the next compound.
> this is part of the idea of 'compound rotation' in phase cycling .
> 
> note -- of course this can be taken to the extreme and guys say 'well why not just inject all 10,000mg in one day' .. um come on , I'm sill being reasonable here


That is similar to frontloading. I understood that you prefer short esthers to frontloading. I probably misunderstood.


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## Obs

> Yeah, but Obs isn’t reasonable- don’t give him crazy ideas!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It doesnt do any added good to exceed dosages in huge amounts. 
Shooting a gram or two of sust in one sitting will ballon you up and make you nice and full but if you hold the dosage and do that constantly it wont put on anything extra over a gram a week.

Juice is only one part of the equation. Your muscles can only grow so fast.

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## charger69

> It doesnt do any added good to exceed dosages in huge amounts. 
> Shooting a gram or two of sust in one sitting will ballon you up and make you nice and full but if you hold the dosage and do that constantly it wont put on anything extra over a gram a week.
> 
> Juice is only one part of the equation. Your muscles can only grow so fast.


Damn, Obs is reasonable at times. Must be he ran out of tren . LOL


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## Obs

> Damn, Obs is reasonable at times. Must be he ran out of tren . LOL
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No, I have just done it.

Actually the only thing I have never mass dosed is deca ... Highest I went with nandrolone was 750mg wk and that was npp. 

Everything else I have shot high at some point

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## GearHeaded

> It doesnt do any added good to exceed dosages in huge amounts. 
> Shooting a gram or two of sust in one sitting will ballon you up and make you nice and full but if you hold the dosage and do that constantly it wont put on anything extra over a gram a week.
> 
> Juice is only one part of the equation. *Your muscles can only grow so fast*.


this is true. this is also why I like 'mega dosing' mainly with long esters . those super high dosages are actually going to be in your system over a longer duration of time and give your body more of a chance to acclimate and grow, over mega dosing a short ester that is in and out fo the system..

but something I'm looking into. and still have a lot of learning to do on . is the idea of "over dosing' AAS to yield and adaptation response from the body.. the idea is basically taking in more AAS then you can utilize, and the body then responds to this 'over dose' by rapidly generating more and more androgen receptors.
not going to go into it too much right now as I still have a lot to look into on this subject.

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## GearHeaded

its like training. you can't do high intensity, high volume and high frequency all at the same time all year . you'll kill yourself. . you have to pick one and run the hell out of it and make your body adapt and change then give it a break.
you can't run a gram of Tren all year.. but a short burst for a few weeks of very high dosage may yield and adaptive response from the body..

you get in , hit it hard, then get the fuk out

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## charger69

> this is true. this is also why I like 'mega dosing' mainly with long esters . those super high dosages are actually going to be in your system over a longer duration of time and give your body more of a chance to acclimate and grow, over mega dosing a short ester that is in and out fo the system..
> 
> but something I'm looking into. and still have a lot of learning to do on . is the idea of "over dosing' AAS to yield and adaptation response from the body.. the idea is basically taking in more AAS then you can utilize, and the body then responds to this 'over dose' by rapidly generating more and more androgen receptors.
> not going to go into it too much right now as I still have a lot to look into on this subject.


Cool! Someone will be cut up like Frankenstein to count the receptors. LOL
Obs will volunteer!


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## GearHeaded

so I'm not going log daily on here with everything I eat, train, etc every single day. . I'll do that on occasions. its mainly the 'overall' things that I'm doing that I'll log here.

occasionally I'll log a basic day- so today was an 'off day' 

Food (non training day, no post workout meal, no intra workout meal, low carb low insulin day)

Meal 1 - 40g protein 20g carbs
Meal 2 - 90g protein 50g carbs 20g fat
Meal 3 - 50g protein + veggies
intra cardio - 20g amino acids
Meal 4 - 15g protein 100g carbs 30g fat
Meal 5 - 60g protein 50g carbs 10g fat
protein 255, carbs 220, fats 60

workout (day off)
= 1 hour of cardio 

yes I'm bulking , but I'm not going to put on unnecessary body fat. so low carb low calorie days with some cardio mixed in is still implemented here and there. IF I stop growing, then I'll stop the cardio and up the food. but as long as I'm slowly gaining, I'll try to gain lean.

drugs today (spot injected each lat)
300mg Deca 
100mg NPP
200mg Mast e
100mg Mast p
10iu insulin upon waking
10mg Dbol upon waking
25mg MK

----------


## GearHeaded

Update -
decided I want to run something completely new at the end of this current cycle.
all the hype is pointed at DHB right now , but I'm thinking of going with Stenbolone Acetate . which is basically a cross between DHB, Primo, and Anardrol.
thinking 100mg EOD to start. I'll have it put in at the end of the cycle where I run it basically solo so I can get a good feel for it.
I had planned on running Superdrol at the end of this cycle, but the Stenbolone is not liver toxic and is a bit cleaner of a compound. which may be a good idea after I been running Dbol , then tren and winny.

I'm open to any other suggestions as far as running a 'new' (ie, designer/exotic) compound though

----------


## Obs

> Update -
> decided I want to run something completely new at the end of this current cycle.
> all the hype is pointed at DHB right now , but I'm thinking of going with Stenbolone Acetate . which is basically a cross between DHB, Primo, and Anardrol.
> thinking 100mg EOD to start. I'll have it put in at the end of the cycle where I run it basically solo so I can get a good feel for it.
> I had planned on running Superdrol at the end of this cycle, but the Stenbolone is not liver toxic and is a bit cleaner of a compound. which may be a good idea after I been running Dbol , then tren and winny.
> 
> I'm open to any other suggestions as far as running a 'new' (ie, designer/exotic) compound though


I want to try that bad. Only one source I know has it and thats yours.

----------


## GearHeaded

> I want to try that bad. Only one source I know has it and thats yours.


yeah and they are having a sale right now, so thats why I was thinking of pulling the trigger on it.

I actually got on there today cause I was thinking of picking up some MENT (Trestalone) . but I was like forget that, why not try something new (I've ran MENT quite a few times) plus Ment is best used for my high estrogen phases (and I'm already done with that phase of this cycle). so Stenbolone seemed to fit the bill right where it needs in regards to timing with this current protocol

----------


## GearHeaded

This is the pre-workout AAS protocol I'm thinking I will be implementing in a week or so after my deload

50mg Tren suspension
50mg Test suspension
25mg Winstrol 
25mg Anadrol 
10iu Slin

^ I have these all in injectable form. so it will be a 3cc shot pre workout

----------


## kelkel

> ^ I have these all in injectable form. so it will be a 3cc shot pre workout



That will get old real fast, damn!

----------


## Obs

> yeah and they are having a sale right now, so thats why I was thinking of pulling the trigger on it.
> 
> I actually got on there today cause I was thinking of picking up some MENT (Trestalone) . but I was like forget that, why not try something new (I've ran MENT quite a few times) plus Ment is best used for my high estrogen phases (and I'm already done with that phase of this cycle). so Stenbolone seemed to fit the bill right where it needs in regards to timing with this current protocol


I will never understand how one source can pull out a forgotten compound from thin air and be the only one that has it. 

I watched a sponsored log on it. The guy running it was damn sure competition material said it made him feel like superman.

----------


## charger69

> This is the pre-workout AAS protocol I'm thinking I will be implementing in a week or so after my deload
> 
> 50mg Tren suspension
> 50mg Test suspension
> 25mg Winstrol 
> 25mg Anadrol 
> 10iu Slin
> 
> ^ I have these all in injectable form. so it will be a 3cc shot pre workout


I thought that you were against injectable Winnie?


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## GearHeaded

> I thought that you were against injectable Winnie?


I'm not necessarily against it . it just has more chance of causing an infection being there is no preservative in water based winstol (more risk especially in a multi use vile compared to ampules). so its much safer to take it orally.

UNLESS you have an oil based injectable Winstrol . which is what I have  :Smilie:

----------


## GearHeaded

> That will get old real fast, damn!


yes it will especially on top of my normal weekly AAS protocol. so will probably only be about a 3 week run of this pre-workout protocol.

but I'm fairly comfortable with high volume and multiple spot site injecting .
thats why over time I've hit multiple body parts like , inner bicep, outer bicep, mid pec, upper pec, all three delts, triceps, quads, glutes, and able to hit 3cc in each lat.
gotta find somewhere to put all this damn oil

----------


## GearHeaded

> I will never understand how one source can pull out a forgotten compound from thin air and be the only one that has it. 
> 
> I watched a sponsored log on it. The guy running it was damn sure competition material said it made him feel like superman.


yeah they were one of the early ones to bring MENT to the market as well (I was running it from another source prior to that, but there were only a couple labs carrying it back then). they've also carried things like Methyl Test and Superdrol for quite awhile and other labs never bothered with those either

----------


## Obs

> yeah they were one of the early ones to bring MENT to the market as well (I was running it from another source prior to that, but there were only a couple labs carrying it back then). they've also carried things like Methyl Test and Superdrol for quite awhile and other labs never bothered with those either


From what I understand stenbolone is highly effective, the availability was just low. 
That guy in the log said it made him feel jacked up which would be right up my alley.

----------


## GearHeaded

> From what I understand stenbolone is highly effective, the availability was just low. 
> That guy in the log said it made him feel jacked up which would be right up my alley.


well on paper it looks pretty good . I'll probably run it at the end of this current phase/cycle that way I can get a feel for it solo.
the long esters I was running, Mast E and Deca , just ended today. so its all short esters right now. they will clear fast and so I'll be able to give a chance for the Sten to shine or not.

so where I'm at right now and starting tomorrow .

100mg a day Mast Prop
75mg a day NPP
25mg a day Tren A
50mg a day Winstrol 

20mg a day Tbol (taking in the AM first thing upon waking with insulin .. don't really consider this part of a 'cycle' though per se)
Test 500mg per week

once I drop off the NPP in about 3-4 weeks, I'll begin blasting the Tren (right now I'm just starting to use Tren low dose to get some more androgenic effect in there). Tren will be very high dose for about 3 or so weeks straight, prob 125mg per day

Then perhaps after that 6-7 weeks I'll pull everything out and just run the Sten solo. not sure yet. 

kinda depends on how my body is responding at the time. I had put on some weight the last few weeks, but now that I'm out of my high estrogen phase and going more dry things may slow down.
of course my high dose insulin, gh, and T4 phase , as well as my pre-workout AAS blast phase I just brought up are all going to be overlapping with the above.
perhaps in another post I'll lay out how everything 'overlaps' and why/how the drugs that were chosen are being utilized with each other.

----------


## Family_guy

> note : I generally don't program traditional 'bro splits' (one body part per week) for myself or most clients. but for a de-load phase or short term maintenance phase I think they are ideal.
> 
> Cur
> 
> of course I'm not trying to maintain right now. so this would only last about a week or two. then its back to high frequency


Curious as to why you dont recommend bro splits. You seem to be one of the more knowledgeable members here so if you dont mind I would love to hear your thinking on that

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## GearHeaded

> Curious as to why you don’t recommend “bro splits”. You seem to be one of the more knowledgeable members here so if you don’t mind I would love to hear your thinking on that


its nearly impossible for the average person/lifter to generate enough volume and homeostatic stress in a single workout for a single body part to justify that one body part needing a whole week to recover.
sure theres a time and a place for traditional bro splits. like me being on one now. or again for guys that are super strong.

heres what I say in another post to clarify
you'd likely be better off doing body parts 2x per week rather then 1x per week anyways

'bro splits' where you only hit one body part per week are generally best suited for beasts that are super strong and big to begin with.
they create enough homeostatic stress and volume in one workout to require a whole week of rest for that body part. . your average 200 pound guy benching 275 does not.

think about it. a 250 pound beast trains chest. lets say he does bench press for 405 for 5 sets of 12, then on to incline dumbbell press hitting the 150s for 5 sets of 15.
well volume = sets X reps X weight moved. so go ahead and tally up how much volume this guy has already pushed and he's only two exercises in.
[his total volume is going to be 3 times that of your average gym rat . just because the weight he is pushing for reps alone]

again this guy is creating a ton of homeostatic stress in a single workout. he's going to need a whole week for his chest to recover. . but you and me are not near this strong. we can't push that weight and volume. our chest will be ready to go in just a few days. 

thats why higher frequency works better for the majority of people. we are not near strong enough to accumulate enough volume in one workout to require a whole week for that body part to recover. we'll do better hitting it again in a few days

----------


## GearHeaded

> This is the pre-workout AAS protocol 
> 50mg Tren suspension
> 50mg Test suspension
> 25mg Winstrol 
> 25mg Anadrol 
> 10iu Slin
> 
> ^ I have these all in injectable form. so it will be a 3cc shot pre workout





> That will get old real fast, damn!


ok so I found a 'blend' (which I'm normally not a big fan of , I like mixing things myself).


but using this as part of the pre workout plan should cut my oil volume down, as there is 25mg tren base, 50mg test base, 25mg Winstrol in just 1ml .

so may implement this blend in rather then having to pin 3cc just as a pre workout

----------


## charger69

> ok so I found a 'blend' (which I'm normally not a big fan of , I like mixing things myself).
> 
> 
> but using this as part of the pre workout plan should cut my oil volume down, as there is 25mg tren base, 50mg test base, 25mg Winstrol in just 1ml .
> 
> so may implement this blend in rather then having to pin 3cc just as a pre workout


I have a silly question... the specific gravity has to be different so how do you get a homogeneous solution??



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## GearHeaded

> I have a silly question... the specific gravity has to be different so how do you get a homogeneous solution??


are you talking about the blend the UGL makes ? if so I don't know shit about brewing gear (I don't want to know, don't want to be tempted).

OR are you talking about me normally taking single esters and mixing them together rather then using a blend ?
if so. what I mean is that all I'm doing it taking my Tren base from the vial, my Test base from the vial, my Winstrol , and my Anadrol , and simply drawing it all up into a 3cc syringe and then dropping the plunger on that all into my lat.
I'm not worried about any 'homogenous' anything  :Smilie:  just as long as it all gets in the muscle

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## charger69

> are you talking about the blend the UGL makes ? if so I don't know shit about brewing gear (I don't want to know, don't want to be tempted).
> 
> OR are you talking about me normally taking single esters and mixing them together rather then using a blend ?
> if so. what I mean is that all I'm doing it taking my Tren base from the vial, my Test base from the vial, my Winstrol , and my Anadrol , and simply drawing it all up into a 3cc syringe and then dropping the plunger on that all into my lat.
> I'm not worried about any 'homogenous' anything  just as long as it all gets in the muscle


I was talking about the uGL however you prompted my thinking... they do not just take a little of this, and a little of that. 
I am sure that it is all one big batch made together. I made a batch by a little of this and a little of that in a vial a long time ago. Serum levels were probably all over due to not being homogeneous. 
I do the same thing you do. 


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## Obs

> I have a silly question... the specific gravity has to be different so how do you get a homogeneous solution??
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The specific gravities may be diffetent but they are all dissolved in the same carrier oil and solvent. 
dis·solve
/dəˈzälv/Submit
verb
1.
(with reference to a solid) become or cause to become incorporated into a liquid so as to form a solution.

Each hormone/ester is incorporated in the liquid via solvent unless something is introduced to crash it.

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## Family_guy

> its nearly impossible for the average person/lifter to generate enough volume and homeostatic stress in a single workout for a single body part to justify that one body part needing a whole week to recover.
> sure theres a time and a place for traditional bro splits. like me being on one now. or again for guys that are super strong.
> 
> heres what I say in another post to clarify
> you'd likely be better off doing body parts 2x per week rather then 1x per week anyways
> 
> 'bro splits' where you only hit one body part per week are generally best suited for beasts that are super strong and big to begin with.
> they create enough homeostatic stress and volume in one workout to require a whole week of rest for that body part. . your average 200 pound guy benching 275 does not.
> 
> ...


Good point! I actually remember reading another of your posts about training and about your logic on that specifically. Thanks

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## Old Duffer

> The specific gravities may be diffetent but they are all dissolved in the same carrier oil and solvent. 
> dis·solve
> /dəˈzälv/Submit
> verb
> 1.
> (with reference to a solid) become or cause to become incorporated into a liquid so as to form a solution.
> 
> Each hormone/ester is incorporated in the liquid via solvent unless something is introduced to crash it.


Exactly

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## Charlie67

> its nearly impossible for the average person/lifter to generate enough volume and homeostatic stress in a single workout for a single body part to justify that one body part needing a whole week to recover.
> sure theres a time and a place for traditional bro splits. like me being on one now. or again for guys that are super strong.
> 
> heres what I say in another post to clarify
> you'd likely be better off doing body parts 2x per week rather then 1x per week anyways
> 
> 'bro splits' where you only hit one body part per week are generally best suited for beasts that are super strong and big to begin with.
> they create enough homeostatic stress and volume in one workout to require a whole week of rest for that body part. . your average 200 pound guy benching 275 does not.
> 
> ...


An additional thought to consider... From an older guy.... Keep an eye on what you're really working. Most compound exercises work secondary muscles as well. For example, if I tried to do back twice a week, and chest twice, and then arms twice a week... I'd be working my biceps and triceps (directly and indirectly) 4 times a week. My old-ass tendons would be toast.

Weather you're doing the bro-split, or twice/weekly, or whatever else, effective programming is essential.

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## Obs

> An additional thought to consider... From an older guy.... Keep an eye on what you're really working. Most compound exercises work secondary muscles as well. For example, if I tried to do back twice a week, and chest twice, and then arms twice a week... I'd be working my biceps and triceps (directly and indirectly) 4 times a week. My old-ass tendons would be toast.
> 
> Weather you're doing the bro-split, or twice/weekly, or whatever else, effective programming is essential.


Lots do chest and tri back and bi.

I personally cant bear to not do tri and bi together.

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## charger69

> Lots do chest and tri back and bi.
> 
> I personally cant bear to not do tri and bi together.


I like the synergy of supersets with bis and tris. I know that I should probably change up, but nothing else compares. 


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## Obs

> I like the synergy of supersets with bis and tris. I know that I should probably change up, but nothing else compares. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Its not that for me.
Its walking around looking like I just did bis and tris that gets me.

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## GearHeaded

as a personal trainer I have a pretty good idea about exercise selection and how to hit muscle groups to try and get them to grow.
however, I CANNOT get my own chest to grow worth a shit. its my weakest body part. it has no size and fullness at all.


I've tried plenty of different training techniques.

so the next step possibly. I'm going to start injecting all my bases and suspensions (test suspension, tren suspension, winstrol ) for preworkout strictly into my upper chest. I'm also thinking of using Hyaluronic acid to try and fill out the chest and help with some fullness/size. 

anyhow, what are your guys thoughts on running short ester gear and SEO into my upper chest to try and develop some fullness ?

----------


## Obs

> as a personal trainer I have a pretty good idea about exercise selection and how to hit muscle groups to try and get them to grow.
> however, I CANNOT get my own chest to grow worth a shit. its my weakest body part. it has no size and fullness at all.
> 
> 
> I've tried plenty of different training techniques.
> 
> so the next step possibly. I'm going to start injecting all my bases and suspensions (test suspension, tren suspension, winstrol ) for preworkout strictly into my upper chest. I'm also thinking of using Hyaluronic acid to try and fill out the chest and help with some fullness/size. 
> 
> anyhow, what are your guys thoughts on running short ester gear and SEO into my upper chest to try and develop some fullness ?


I inject upper high straight above the nipple with short esters and get the least pain there but that may not be what you want and may want to move near insertion points on the inside. 

It seems most localized growth i get is in daily or eod pinning closer to insertions. 
Biceps seem to work best toward the top and bottom extremities anyway. No science, only observation and what I feel.
Your chest looks great btw.

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## charger69

> as a personal trainer I have a pretty good idea about exercise selection and how to hit muscle groups to try and get them to grow.
> however, I CANNOT get my own chest to grow worth a shit. its my weakest body part. it has no size and fullness at all.
> 
> 
> I've tried plenty of different training techniques.
> 
> so the next step possibly. I'm going to start injecting all my bases and suspensions (test suspension, tren suspension, winstrol ) for preworkout strictly into my upper chest. I'm also thinking of using Hyaluronic acid to try and fill out the chest and help with some fullness/size. 
> 
> anyhow, what are your guys thoughts on running short ester gear and SEO into my upper chest to try and develop some fullness ?


First off, your chest looks great. If I were to see how to make it better, I would probably work it by itself. I am by no means at your level, but try the following:
Incline press- bar to the bone at the bottom of the neck SUPERSET with incline flues
Bench superset with pec dec
Incline dB press- dbs touching ( it also works tris.) superset push up
Pulley chest cross superset dips
Try the reps 15,12,10,8 and increasing the weight. Pushups and dips should be hard enough and use reps to get the pump. 


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## Obs

Dont you love how charger rubs it in?
"I am by no means at your level..."

"I am gonna have your traps soon obs"


What a twat right?
I swear to God he says something about getting my calves and I quit. 

"Oooooh I gonna have calves as big as yours in a few years obs..."

Smartass!

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## Obs

Btw gh you have an awesome v taper in your frame itself. You really are set up for this.
You are already beefy as hell.

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## charger69

> Dont you love how charger rubs it in?
> "I am by no means at your level..."
> 
> "I am gonna have your traps soon obs"
> 
> 
> What a twat right?
> I swear to God he says something about getting my calves and I quit. 
> 
> ...


You need to show us your calves first. You do not understand ho thick your traps are. 
I am trying to make the ultimate BB. 
Obs traps, Sils wide back, Rads abs, and Kelkels legs. Still missing body parts that I will get. 


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## Obs

> You need to show us your calves first. You do not understand ho thick your traps are. 
> I am trying to make the ultimate BB. 
> Obs traps, Sil’s wide back, Rads abs, and Kelkels legs. Still missing body parts that I will get. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My delts are my only good quality man. 

Rest of me is shit slung together on a weird shaped frame. You are way past me all around.

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## Obs

And you stay away from my poor little calves!

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## Obs

Ok i choose...

Attachment 174989

Her ass and puss

And her tits

Attachment 174988

My pecker and tonight.

Awww just either one.

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## charger69

I am happy on the progress with my hams however I need wider quads. Open for advice. 
I am going to try and do leg exercises with a close stance thinking that maybe the sweep will help. 


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## GearHeaded

> I am happy on the progress with my hams however I need wider quads. Open for advice. 
> I am going to try and do leg exercises with a close stance thinking that maybe the sweep will help.


it seems like now days , if you compete in open bodybuilding , you can never have enough legs (unless your big Ramy). so Legs are something that can always use more size. where back in the day too big of legs was not aesthetic. so I'd say yeah, keep focusing on that outer sweep and getting more 'X' frame status

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## GearHeaded

> Ok i choose...
> 
> Attachment 174982
> 
> Her ass and puss
> 
> And her tits
> 
> Attachment 174983
> ...



reminds me of some movie back in the 80s where these two guys were able to build the perfect babe on their computer then resurface her into real life. sounds like a fun job

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## GearHeaded

> Btw gh you have an awesome v taper in your frame itself. You really are set up for this..


I think my structure and small joints help. but think I need about 15+ pounds of more actual muscle on my frame (and thats just to maybe one day fit in the classic physique division is all)

of course we are never ever big enough . I watched an interview with Roelly Winkler today on MD . he said he looks in the mirror and thinks he's too small . lol, he was the most muscled guy on the Olympia stage !!

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## Family_guy

> I like the synergy of supersets with bis and tris. I know that I should probably change up, but nothing else compares. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree. The pump from doing supersets with arms is awesome. I started with an upper/lower/off split. I have started doing a push/pull/legs split and I like it so far. I just have to stick with it for more than a few weeks...I get impatient lol

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## charger69

> I think my structure and small joints help. but think I need about 15+ pounds of more actual muscle on my frame (and thats just to maybe one day fit in the classic physique division is all)
> 
> of course we are never ever big enough . I watched an interview with Roelly Winkler today on MD . he said he looks in the mirror and thinks he's too small . lol, he was the most muscled guy on the Olympia stage !!


You got that right. The way to counteract the not big enough, is to evaluate yourself year after year. Try and make new versions of your physique. Go into the year with specific improvements.


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## HoldMyBeer

> as a personal trainer I have a pretty good idea about exercise selection and how to hit muscle groups to try and get them to grow.
> however, I CANNOT get my own chest to grow worth a shit. its my weakest body part. it has no size and fullness at all.
> 
> 
> I've tried plenty of different training techniques.
> 
> so the next step possibly. I'm going to start injecting all my bases and suspensions (test suspension, tren suspension, winstrol ) for preworkout strictly into my upper chest. I'm also thinking of using Hyaluronic acid to try and fill out the chest and help with some fullness/size. 
> 
> anyhow, what are your guys thoughts on running short ester gear and SEO into my upper chest to try and develop some fullness ?


I can't speak to pinning in the chest
But a prayer press with a dumbbell helped me a lot w my chest development.
Fat grips help since you're only using your palms to hold it up.
A lot of people do it w plates. It's hard to get enough weight and ROM w those. 
Squeeze at the top, get a great contraction mid chest, hard to achieve w any other exercise.

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## charger69

> I can't speak to pinning in the chest
> But a prayer press with a dumbbell helped me a lot w my chest development.
> Fat grips help since you're only using your palms to hold it up.
> A lot of people do it w plates. It's hard to get enough weight and ROM w those. 
> Squeeze at the top, get a great contraction mid chest, hard to achieve w any other exercise.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk


What is a prayer press? Incline dB press with dB touching?


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## HoldMyBeer

> What is a prayer press? Incline dB press with dB touching?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Flat bench
Using single dumbbell
Pic of how to hold dumbbell attached (DB professionally represented by a dry erase marker)
I like to keep elbows about 45° from body. 
Then your just press it off your chest and squeeze at the top, repeat

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## Obs

> I think my structure and small joints help. but think I need about 15+ pounds of more actual muscle on my frame (and thats just to maybe one day fit in the classic physique division is all)
> 
> of course we are never ever big enough . I watched an interview with Roelly Winkler today on MD . he said he looks in the mirror and thinks he's too small . lol, he was the most muscled guy on the Olympia stage !!


Totally agree. 
Got no idea how he can wipe his ass

----------


## GearHeaded

> I can't speak to pinning in the chest
> But a prayer press with a dumbbell helped me a lot w my chest development.
> Fat grips help since you're only using your palms to hold it up.
> A lot of people do it w plates. It's hard to get enough weight and ROM w those. 
> Squeeze at the top, get a great contraction mid chest, hard to achieve w any other exercise.


going to give these a try today . I have done something similar in the past but with using two dumbbells pressed together tight rather then a single dumbbell . the two dumbbells kinda make your chest have to contract the whole time just to keep the two dumbbells pressed together.
but I'll give the dingle dumbbell a try as well.

I'm open to any new exercises at this point. my shoulders always want to take over my chest exercises. not just front delts, even my rear delts end up getting more pumped and worked from a set of cable flies then my damn chest does. its weird. my shoulders will get so pumped up and painful I can barely finish a Chest workout.

thats partially why I was thinking of trying hyaluronic acid in the pecs. its supposedly really helps facilitate a strong pump and muscle connection with the muscle you inject it in.

----------


## kelkel

> reminds me of some movie back in the 80s where these two guys were able to build the perfect babe on their computer then resurface her into real life. sounds like a fun job

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## Obs

> 


Nice body!
I look at her head and wonder if I dare look downstairs.

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## GearHeaded

so it has been confirmed..

Stenbolone will be ran at the very end of this current cycle. 500mg per week for 6 weeks.

I may just consider that part of my 'cruise' if I run it solo

----------


## Obs

> so it has been confirmed..
> 
> Stenbolone will be ran at the very end of this current cycle. 500mg per week for 6 weeks


Please note everything about your demeanor, lifts, etc.
I want to know if it gives the explosive effect I was told or if it was just a rep pushing his brand.

----------


## GearHeaded

> Please note everything about your demeanor, lifts, etc.
> I want to know if it gives the explosive effect I was told or if it was just a rep pushing his brand.


yeah will do . thats also why its probably best to run it solo, or at the most with a very light compound

----------


## Obs

> yeah will do . thats also why its probably best to run it solo, or at the most with a very light compound


Dude that ran it called it supertren. 
I hope he was right

----------


## GearHeaded

> Dude that ran it called it supertren. 
> I hope he was right


well would be nice if it lives up to its hype, and even at that only 500mg per week. thats nothing and would sure be convenient, as I'm currently running like 300-400mg per day right now. thats why going on the Sten at only 500mg per week would be pretty much like a low dose cruse phase.

----------


## GearHeaded

well today was an awesome shoulder day.. but one big problem, it wasn't shoulder day it was chest day today damnit . so again I tried to isolate my chest, but my shoulders, especially my rear delts, just kept taking over.

I even pinned some tren and some NPP in each pec yesterday hoping that a little bit of soreness would lead to a better mind muscle connection . but my damn shoulders got so pumped I could barely move my arms, let alone destroy my chest.

----------


## Obs

> well today was an awesome shoulder day.. but one big problem, it wasn't shoulder day it was chest day today damnit . so again I tried to isolate my chest, but my shoulders, especially my rear delts, just kept taking over.
> 
> I even pinned some tren and some NPP in each pec yesterday hoping that a little bit of soreness would lead to a better mind muscle connection . but my damn shoulders got so pumped I could barely move my arms, let alone destroy my chest.


I fought this until I stopped training shoulders for a couple months. It didnt matter what I did just walking in the gym blew my delts up.

----------


## GearHeaded

one thing I like about using insulin , is that if you take 10iu when you first wake up it gives you a valid excuse to break into the pumpkin pie first thing

----------


## Obs

> one thing I like about using insulin, is that if you take 10iu when you first wake up it gives you a valid excuse to break into the pumpkin pie first thing


I am already on my second 10iu injection of novolog. 
Due again at 2pm then 6pm

----------


## GearHeaded

> I am already on my second 10iu injection of novolog. 
> Due again at 2pm then 6pm


turkey day = insulin day . we'll all be about 10 pounds heavier this time tomorrow

----------


## charger69

> I am already on my second 10iu injection of novolog. 
> Due again at 2pm then 6pm


Taking 30?oops 40?


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## Obs

> Taking 30?oops 40?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes today.
Hit gym early, pre workout 10iu. Now I get to eat and shoot all day to utilize it

----------


## GearHeaded

> I fought this until I stopped training shoulders for a couple months. It didnt matter what I did just walking in the gym blew my delts up.


I think I'm going to try this. no direct training of shoulders for awhile. I was over head pressing 235 for 5 the other day. that pressing shit probably is carrying over and limiting my chest day.
maybe just do a few side laterals on my arm day and thats it for shoulders, just to maintain a good shoulder 'cap'

----------


## Old Duffer

> I think I'm going to try this. no direct training of shoulders for awhile. I was over head pressing 235 for 5 the other day. that pressing shit probably is carrying over and limiting my chest day.
> maybe just do a few side laterals on my arm day and thats it for shoulders, just to maintain a good shoulder 'cap'


That makes sense. My shoulders are miles ahead of my pecs. So hard for me to get good mind-muscle connection.

----------


## Obs

> I think I'm going to try this. no direct training of shoulders for awhile. I was over head pressing 235 for 5 the other day. that pressing shit probably is carrying over and limiting my chest day.
> maybe just do a few side laterals on my arm day and thats it for shoulders, just to maintain a good shoulder 'cap'


It amazes me how strong some of you guys are...

If a guy is delt dominant I doubt you will lose anything and continue gaining. 
Its a physical impossibility for me to turn off my delts doing anything upper body related. I tried everything and finally got tired of leaving the gym early on arm day because my delt hurt so I did zero direct training. 

I pretty much train shoulders when I feel like it.

----------


## GearHeaded

yeah the shoulder 'pump' pain on high dosages of gear is amplified even further. probably no need to train them directly while on this blast, plus not worth the pain being they are firing all the time anyways.
they get used indirectly with nearly everything we do

I recall you saying you couldn't climb a silo (or something like that) cause your shoulders got so painfully pumped. when day to day activities are getting hindered, you know them shoulders are over worked

----------


## GearHeaded

> That makes sense. My shoulders are miles ahead of my pecs. So hard for me to get good mind-muscle connection.


its more common then I thought . when I think about it, I see guys with big full pecs and often times their shoulders are not super impressive (so maybe its one or the other)

----------


## Obs

> yeah the shoulder 'pump' pain on high dosages of gear is amplified even further. probably no need to train them directly while on this blast, plus not worth the pain being they are firing all the time anyways.
> they get used indirectly with nearly everything we do
> 
> I recall you saying you couldn't climb a silo (or something like that) cause your shoulders got so painfully pumped. when day to day activities are getting hindered, you know them shoulders are over worked


Yessir I actually had to tell that farmer to get someone else to climb his silo. 

Holding up a chainsaw one handed for hours and running a commercial grade pole saw above your headcis about all the shoulder work a guy needs

----------


## tarmyg

You strict pressed 235 for 5 reps? That crazy strong. I got 225 up by push jerking it, for 1 rep. 



> I think I'm going to try this. no direct training of shoulders for awhile. I was over head pressing 235 for 5 the other day. that pressing shit probably is carrying over and limiting my chest day.
> maybe just do a few side laterals on my arm day and thats it for shoulders, just to maintain a good shoulder 'cap'

----------


## GearHeaded

> You strict pressed 235 for 5 reps? That crazy strong. I got 225 up by push jerking it, for 1 rep.


because of all the screws and hardware in my back, I strict press while sitting on a bench wearing a belt. that way I can lock my core in and take no chance of using my lower back. I get zero leg drive as well. so its pretty much all upper body and shoulder strength.

the 235 for 5 was multiple working sets with a bodybuilding emphasis. probably did about 4 sets of those, having worked up to that weight with another 3 or so sets prior. then I finished off with 135 for high reps to failure. 
^ of course my shoulders are killing me now lately. I need to lay off this type of stuff for awhile 

I attribute my over head press strength to a lot of years spent doing commercial Hvac work and having to work over head installing motors etc.. in ceilings. so lifting over head is a lot more natural for me then a lot of other guys I'd imagine.

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## GearHeaded

I'm calling an - AUDIBLE - 

what the heck is an audible..? well to all you euro guys not familiar with American Football. When a team prepares for another team they have a game plan and a host of pre thought of plays to run depending on how the other team lines up. the QB sometimes calls an 'audible' when he sees a certain situation where going against the pre determined plays and doing a whole new play on the fly seems advantageous. 

whats my audible -
well I'm temporarily changing the game plan, but only for a short time. my plan and goal was to start packing on more size and muscle and track that progress here. but I'm feeling like total dog shit. my sleep and recovery are now effected negatively, my training is very lethargic and weak and low energy, my digestion sucks, etc. . when training and recovery begin to be hindered by what your doing, then you just end up spinning your wheels and not going anywhere.

so I'm going to back off the high dosages of gear for about 3 or so weeks and do a short 'mini cut'. I'll run a moderate dose of test and mast is all for the time and thats about it (some insulin post workout on high carb days only to boost recovery).
I'll shed a little bit of water and a few pounds. hopefully get my sleep and my digestion back on track, and then get back on the gains train.

this mini cut should hopefully reset a few things for me and be beneficial in the big picture (even though its a temporary step back)

I'm a big believer in DIGESTION being the number one genetic factor that determines how big and muscular you can get. you can only get as muscular as your digestion and nutrient assimilation will allow.
if you want to get to 300 pounds but you simply can't digest and assimilate the needed food to get there, then you'll never get there. period. no matter what 'magic' drugs we have or how much we take.

this 3 or so week mini cut should hopefully reset my digestion so I can move on to assimilating more and more nutrients to drive more growth.

----------


## charger69

> I'm calling an - AUDIBLE - 
> 
> what the heck is an audible..? well to all you euro guys not familiar with American Football. When a team prepares for another team they have a game plan and a host of pre thought of plays to run depending on how the other team lines up. the QB sometimes calls an 'audible' when he sees a certain situation where going against the pre determined plays and doing a whole new play on the fly seems advantageous. 
> 
> whats my audible -
> well I'm temporarily changing the game plan, but only for a short time. my plan and goal was to start packing on more size and muscle and track that progress here. but I'm feeling like total dog shit. my sleep and recovery are now effected negatively, my training is very lethargic and weak and low energy, my digestion sucks, etc. . when training and recovery begin to be hindered by what your doing, then you just end up spinning your wheels and not going anywhere.
> 
> so I'm going to back off the high dosages of gear for about 3 or so weeks and do a short 'mini cut'. I'll run a moderate dose of test and mast is all for the time and thats about it (some insulin post workout on high carb days only to boost recovery).
> I'll shed a little bit of water and a few pounds. hopefully get my sleep and my digestion back on track, and then get back on the gains train.
> ...


What is low test? 150? Any Winnie in there?


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## GearHeaded

> What is low test? 150? Any Winnie in there?


funny you ask about Winnie . my very first thought when deciding to do this mini cut was to just run Winstrol at like 50mg and thats about it. BUT, after second thought with my current digestive issues (and having ran Dbol ) I figured its best to give my liver a break during this little mini cut phase. 

yes low dose test would be around 150-200mg. however, I did not say 'low dose' , I said 'moderate dose'  :Smilie: 
so 150mg mast and 125mg test, EOD

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## charger69

> funny you ask about Winnie . my very first thought when deciding to do this mini cut was to just run Winstrol at like 50mg and thats about it. BUT, after second thought with my current digestive issues (and having ran Dbol ) I figured its best to give my liver a break during this little mini cut phase. 
> 
> yes low dose test would be around 150-200mg. however, I did not say 'low dose' , I said 'moderate dose' 
> so 150mg mast and 125mg test, EOD


Do you use NAC and TUDCA?


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## GearHeaded

> Do you use NAC and TUDCA?


yes those are my go to , a gram+ of NAC and 500mg Tudca

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## charger69

> yes those are my go to , a gram+ of NAC and 500mg Tudca


I have read somewhere that milk thistle interferes with the receptores while on cycle. 
What are your thoughts?


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## GearHeaded

> I have read somewhere that milk thistle interferes with the receptores while on cycle. 
> What are your thoughts?


I've heard that it has a blunting effect on androgen receptors, but I have not taken the time to look into this. I've also heard that it helps with insulin sensitivity. I've not looked into this either. BUT, I still do take Milk Thistle on occasions as well as there is evidence to suggest it has an ability to detox bile from the liver.

so for me the jury is still out on it

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## GearHeaded

how do I implement a short 'mini cut' ?
easy..

the amount of meals per day stay the same and so does protein. Fats get restricted. Carbs get cycled (and backloaded).
So on a bulk I generally have protein, fats, carbs with nearly every meal. on this mini cut fats are restricted and carbs are taken in only during select times (mainly around the workout).

so today upon waking, I'd normally of shot 10iu of Slin and taken in 40g of protein and 40g of carbs, but did no slin and only 40g protein.
instead of slin, 4iu of HGH and 500mcg of HGH-frag.
I'll eat another meal of around 70g of protein and again no carbs but some veggies. then I'll hit the gym for an hour of cardio and some touch up weights work.
meal 3 will then consist of protein and some carbs.
meal 4 will just be protein.
I'll hit the gym for my normal weight training session, then end it with another 30 or so mins of cardio.
meal 5 will be protein and carbs
meal 6 will be protein and carbs

days off of training will consist of just protein and veggies mainly. some healthy fats fall on these days only.

pretty simple.

note: Slin will be used post workout only, during this time. depending on my blood sugar, I may use a micro dose of slin before my first training/cardio session of the day.
YES I will be doing two cardio sessions per day


note: this is ONLY a MINI cut. for a month. then I'm going right back to the mass phase and putting on muscle. this mini cut will hopefully help in the long run for putting on muscle. when I'm finished with it I hope to be more insulin sensitive, partition nutrients better and get a small rebound effect.

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## charger69

> how do I implement a short 'mini cut' ?
> easy..
> 
> the amount of meals per day stay the same and so does protein. Fats get restricted. Carbs get cycled (and backloaded).
> So on a bulk I generally have protein, fats, carbs with nearly every meal. on this mini cut fats are restricted and carbs are taken in only during select times (mainly around the workout).
> 
> so today upon waking, I'd normally of shot 10iu of Slin and taken in 40g of protein and 40g of carbs, but did no slin and only 40g protein.
> instead of slin, 4iu of HGH and 500mcg of HGH-frag.
> I'll eat another meal of around 70g of protein and again no carbs but some veggies. then I'll hit the gym for an hour of cardio and some touch up weights work.
> ...


Thats a shit load of cardio! Specifically, what do you do for cardio?

I know, Charger should change his name to Curios George.


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## GearHeaded

> That’s a shit load of cardio! Specifically, what do you do for cardio?
> 
> I know, Charger should change his name to Curios George.


yeah I wouldn't recommend most people jump right into 1.5 hours of cardio per day. but again this is just a 'mini cut' for a short time (theres no 'progressions' to be made with mini cuts, on a normal cut or contest prep you want to progress and ramp things up over time) and also I'm someone that responds really well to cardio.

I switch between the treadmill and the bike and the elliptical. just doing steady state with a heart rate around 115-120 bpm. so nothing real intense right now.

I don't have carbs for my preworkout meal before weight training, like I normally would. then I train for an hour. then I do cardio after that, which essentially makes it a depleted/fasted cardio session.
my first cardio session of the day however is 'fed' with protein only meals. If I was trying to get really shredded I'd switch over to morning fasted cardio (totally unnecessary for me for this mini cut though)

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## GearHeaded

I'm not recommending anyone do this .. but my experiment for the day was--
clearing out my AAS stash of near empty bottles.

what did I do with all the oil?

I filled up syringes. 3 of them past full. so 9cc of oil total. decided to inject my arms before arm day. I put 1.5 cc in my outer tricep, 1.5cc in my outer bicep, and 1.5 cc in my inner bicep, each arm.

hit the gym and had a pretty killer pump and arms were nice and full.

see I come off of a heavy blast to start a mini cut and cruise lightly for a few weeks, and I'm not even one week in and I'm already doing silly shit

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## Obs

> I'm not recommending anyone do this .. but my experiment for the day was--
> clearing out my AAS stash of near empty bottles.
> 
> what did I do with all the oil?
> 
> I filled up syringes. 3 of them past full. so 9cc of oil total. decided to inject my arms before arm day. I put 1.5 cc in my outer tricep, 1.5cc in my outer bicep, and 1.5 cc in my inner bicep, each arm.
> 
> hit the gym and had a pretty killer pump and arms were nice and full.
> 
> see I come off of a heavy blast to start a mini cut and cruise lightly for a few weeks, and I'm not even one week in and I'm already doing silly shit


Welcome to my world. 
You will be full as fuck in 48 hours and feel like superman

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## GearHeaded

> Welcome to my world. 
> You will be full as fuck in 48 hours and feel like superman


or maybe batman , or steroid man

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## charger69

> I'm not recommending anyone do this .. but my experiment for the day was--
> clearing out my AAS stash of near empty bottles.
> 
> what did I do with all the oil?
> 
> I filled up syringes. 3 of them past full. so 9cc of oil total. decided to inject my arms before arm day. I put 1.5 cc in my outer tricep, 1.5cc in my outer bicep, and 1.5 cc in my inner bicep, each arm.
> 
> hit the gym and had a pretty killer pump and arms were nice and full.
> 
> see I come off of a heavy blast to start a mini cut and cruise lightly for a few weeks, and I'm not even one week in and I'm already doing silly shit


I was hoping Obs didnt see this.... too late. Giving him ideas just makes him more dangerous. LOL


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## Obs

> or maybe batman , or steroid man


Yes sorry... I didnt mean to insult you.

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## Obs

> I was hoping Obs didn’t see this.... too late. Giving him ideas just makes him more dangerous. LOL
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wth you mean? I invented pot luck.

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## charger69

> Wth you mean? I invented pot luck.


I know it just gives you ideas to do weirder shit. 


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## charger69

> Yes sorry... I didnt mean to insult you.


We are going to start calling you steroid man.


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## Obs

> I know it just gives you ideas to do weirder shit. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You sound like my gf the first time she stuck her finger in my butt.

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## Obs

Lmfao! Uuuugh damn I am dying here...

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## charger69

> You sound like my gf the first time she stuck her finger in my butt.


It always starts with a finger. LOL


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## GearHeaded

I was expecting someone to tell me they did the same experiment and their arms got huge .. what I got was an admission of guilty to a finger in the butt

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## charger69

> I was expecting someone to tell me they did the same experiment and their arms got huge .. what I got was an admission of guilty to a finger in the butt


LMAO  


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## Obs

> I was expecting someone to tell me they did the same experiment and their arms got huge .. what I got was an admission of guilty to a finger in the butt


Idk....
My erection varies in length too...
I believe it to be directly related. 
One day my gf said "holy shit look at how long your dick is!"

I said "I know! You have got to sit on it!

She did! It was a great couple of days! 
Then back to normal... 

Beats the shit outta big arms imo

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## Obs

Btw GH... Just a thought, hit bis and tris like a mofo for a week straight with heavy slin.

I know all the overtraing talk and such but when you are dealing with doses like this and plenty of nutrients, I think we kinda venture out of normalcy and venture more into a world where everything as we know it no longer exists. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call the Twilight Zone.

Cant beat the gains in the twilight zone.

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## GearHeaded

> Idk....
> My erection varies in length too...
> I believe it to be directly related. 
> One day my gf said "holy shit look at how long your dick is!"
> 
> I said "I know! You have got to sit on it!
> 
> She did! It was a great couple of days! 
> Then back to normal... 
> ...


women would choose their man to have a big D over big arms every single time.. like your girl, my wife has never directly complimented anything about how big my arms are looking (or traps, or shoulders). but she has commented on the size of the D.

the reason being - women are selfish, they know that a guys big arms can do nothing for her  :Smilie:

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## GearHeaded

> Cant beat the gains in the twilight zone.


sounds like a good name and slogan for a hardcore gym

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## Obs

> women would choose their man to have a big D over big arms every single time.. like your girl, my wife has never directly complimented anything about how big my arms are looking (or traps, or shoulders). but she has commented on the size of the D.
> 
> the reason being - women are selfish, they know that a guys big arms can do nothing for her


Yeah but they also like to look like they landed a prize and they cant tote you around with an erection hanging out. 

Its like a big set of antlers on a buck when all the others are little spike bucks. 

One day I will figure out why my dick gets two inches longer some times for a week and I will be rich when I isolate it. 
Its something about the gear plus my other supplements. It is obnoxiously obvious though and very welcomed.

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## GearHeaded

> One day I will figure out why my dick gets two inches longer some times for a week and I will be rich when I isolate it. 
> Its something about the gear plus my other supplements. It is obnoxiously obvious though and very welcomed.


happened to me once . turned twice the size as normal.. wife was pretty drunk and laid out blindfolded on the bed. gave her a good pounding. to this day she still wonders who the black guy was that I let into the room

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## Obs

> happened to me once . turned twice the size as normal.. wife was pretty drunk and laid out blindfolded on the bed. gave her a good pounding. to this day she still wonders who the black guy was that I let into the room


Someone will figure it out and charge a grand per pill. If it can happen once it can be replicated

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## Old Duffer

> Yeah but they also like to look like they landed a prize and they cant tote you around with an erection hanging out. 
> 
> Its like a big set of antlers on a buck when all the others are little spike bucks. 
> 
> One day I will figure out why my dick gets two inches longer some times for a week and I will be rich when I isolate it. 
> Its something about the gear plus my other supplements. It is obnoxiously obvious though and very welcomed.


Wifee says didn't happen without pics lol

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## charger69

> Someone will figure it out and charge a grand per pill. If it can happen once it can be replicated


What shoe size do you use??? Size 7. LOL. Im a size 12


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## Obs

> What shoe size do you use??? Size 7. LOL. I’m a size 12
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Damn you got big feet. I have 10.5 extra wide. Duck feet

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## Obs

> Wifee says didn't happen without pics lol


I took pictures last time.

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## charger69

> Damn you got big feet. I have 10.5 extra wide. Duck feet


You know what that means???


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## Obs

> You know what that means???
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No... I am kinda stupid sometimes

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## charger69

> No... I am kinda stupid sometimes


The size of ones foot is proportional to the size of his ding-a-ling. LOL


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## Obs

> The size of ones foot is proportional to the size of his ding-a-ling. LOL
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So you have a 12 inch dick?

Now I want to see pics and its not mu gf asking.

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## charger69

> So you have a 12 inch dick?


I said proportional. Its actually bigger....
Uh oh- wifey is asking me what I am laughing about. 


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## Obs

> I said proportional. It’s actually bigger....
> Uh oh- wifey is asking me what I am laughing about. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good maybe she will give us the truth!

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## GearHeaded

> The size of ones foot is proportional to the size of his ding-a-ling. LOL


I know for a fact that this is not true , because I've measured both

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## charger69

> Good maybe she will give us the truth!


What happens in steroid forum, stays in steroid forum. She doesnt know. 


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## Obs

> I know for a fact that this is not true , because I've measured both


You measured charger dick?

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## charger69

> I know for a fact that this is not true , because I've measured both


Was I drunk when you measured?? I do not remember.


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## Obs

Sorry GH...
I didnt mean to derail your experiment with dick measurements and fingers in my butt out in the twilight zone.

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## GearHeaded

> You measured charger dick?


um, well I made him measure his own foot at least

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## Obs

> um, well I made him measure his own foot at least


If the shoe fits....

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## charger69

> Sorry GH...
> I didnt mean to derail your experiment with dick measurements and fingers in my butt out in the twilight zone.


Me too! I am crying from laughing so hard. 
I will behave now


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## GearHeaded

my brain is not working .. gears are malfunctioning. I think I'm off to bed

----------


## Obs

> Me too! I am crying from laughing so hard. 
> I will behave now
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Its dead quiet other than me laughing. Gf will wake up and come into kitchen and give me a go to hell look and stomp back to bed.

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## Old Duffer

> I took pictures last time.


I'm not gonna share those!

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## Old Duffer

Btw: my shoe is 13 wide. Just sayin

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## Charlie67

> Sorry GH...
> I didnt mean to derail your experiment with dick measurements and fingers in my butt out in the twilight zone.


GH, you're a smart guy, but there's just no way in hell you saw this all coming when you started this thread, haha, lol.

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## GearHeaded

Update -

so I'm a little over a week into this 'mini cut' . I'm about 5-6 pounds down (sitting at 202). I have to say I feel better already. even though I'm doing 1 to 1.5 hours of cardio per day, plus weight training (often twice per day). my sleep is better. just feel a bit healthier .

I really think the FOOD is a big part of it guys. when your plowing down lots of food tying to bulk and put on size, that is really stressful on the body. more so then the drugs. its not like the high dosages of gear I was taking are magically out of my body (heck still on 1.5+ grams). nope, its the food. its no longer taxing me the way it was before mini cutting.

we talk about all these muscle building GENETICS that we have or other guys have. well the biggest factor in genetics to who can get the most muscular has to do with DIGESTION and ASSIMILATION.. whoever has a genetically blessed digestive system and assimilates all their calories well is going to put on a lot more muscle then someone who can't

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## kelkel

> Was I drunk when you measured?? I do not remember.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Word is it was a really cold day.....

----------


## balance

> we talk about all these muscle building GENETICS that we have or other guys have. well the biggest factor in genetics to who can get the most muscular has to do with DIGESTION and ASSIMILATION.. whoever has a genetically blessed digestive system and assimilates all their calories well is going to put on a lot more muscle then someone who can't


Man that’s a lot of training per day with all that cardio in there. 

Food and digestion wise it is crazy to even fathom what the ifbb pros at 250+lbs must consume. I remember reading about one of the pros daily consumption of sweet potatoes alone was several pounds (3-5 iirc). I can’t even begin to imagine that plus all the protein and fats. Surprising that the top level guys are not also top level competitive eaters.

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## charger69

I am getting into the kinetics and muscle science of exercises. Ie: how the muscles attach, the exercises to get a response , etc
My knees naturally point out at a 45 degree angle when standing straight. 
Will pointing my toes in (knees straight forward) when doing quads and hams have better results? I know that toe position does effect the muscle development however if my toes are in, it is like someone else with the toes straight forward in regards to the knees.
I have moved my feet until my knees are straight forward and I do feel a difference. Is this just something in my head, or is there validity to it?


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## GearHeaded

So I've been pretty swamped with some personal stuff that last couple weeks and haven't been around much.

anyways.. I'm done with this mini cut. the goal has been accomplished. I started to feel much better, I started sleeping a lot better, an hour of cardio was a breeze, my insulin sensitivity improved quite a bit , etc.. I shed about 11 pounds (two a day sessions plus a calorie deficit)

now its back to the mass gaining phase.

so I came off everything except for some mast and a cruise dose of test (which is 500mg for me). I added in some Winny. no hgh, no insulin or any other growth factors.

so now to continue the massing phase.
1-2cc of test E per day (dosed at 250mg/ml) . so 1500-2000mg+ per week.
Tren Ace - 100mg EOD
Tren E - 200mg 2-3x per week
Tren Base - 50mg pre workout 
Masteron P - 150mg EOD
Dbol - 60mg per day (only for about 14 or so days to get my estrogen elevated while I run this Tren base .. tren base and dbol pre workout)
Insulin 30iu per day minimum, 45iu per day on large body part training days

Diet - I'm not going to track or plan anything. I'm going to go strictly by feel and just see how my digestion is and modify things along the way.
I'm not going to force feed myself. with the amount of Tren I'm running plus the slin I'm going to need to keep the Carbs pretty high (will take priority over protein)
my staple to start will be eggs, chicken, beef, white rice, potato, and whey shakes.


note: as I stated earlier in this log. I was going to be adding in a 3 or so week long Tren blast where I run close to a gram of Tren, but only for 3 weeks . This is that phase.

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## Old Duffer

Dayum!!

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## GearHeaded

> Dayum!!


thats probably the same thing I'm going to be saying when I see my blood work once I'm done with this current massing "experiment"

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## KennyJ

> thats probably the same thing I'm going to be saying when I see my blood work once I'm done with this current massing "experiment"


If your cholesterol is way out of whack after this will it get back to a reasonable level on it's own without medication?

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## balance

You mentioned cardio twice daily. Was that two half hour sessions or two one hour sessions? If it’s the latter I doubt you will miss that!

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## GearHeaded

> You mentioned cardio twice daily. Was that two half hour sessions or two one hour sessions? If it’s the latter I doubt you will miss that!


I would do two a day sessions. this including weights and cardio.
example -
11am - 1 hour of cardio - 25 mins of weights, mainly focused on touch up work (often times training the body part I trained the night before, but with light weight and just bringing in some blood).
5pm - 1 or so hours of weights (my main weight training split) - and then after weights 30 mins of cardio

so 1.5 hours of cardio per day total.

I don't recommend that for most people.. but keep in mind this was just a very short 'mini cut'.. the point is to be very aggressive . you can't start off slow and steady with a mini cut that only lasts 3 or so weeks . plus cardio works very very well for me

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## GearHeaded

> If your cholesterol is way out of whack after this will it get back to a reasonable level on it's own without medication?


my cholesterol is usually always in a pretty good range. 
on a side note to that , for me personally (not for clients, just my personal choice) I don't really concern myself with cholesterol a whole lot. I don't think the connection between cholesterol and heart disease is that well established and has been way blown out of proportion so that the drug companies can push cholesterol drugs and make billions. the reality is, guys with lower cholesterol levels in general have an elevated mortality rate then guys with higher cholesterol. So I don't stress it one way or the other.

this is just my personal belief though.. for clients or other people I'm helping, I have a responsibility to concern myself with this and advise keeping blood work in range as best as possible. 

for me (and everyone else in the world) I'm likely to eventually die of heart disease or a stroke. unless I get hit by a bus before then. this is essentially how we all go out. I don't really think my blood lipid panel one way or the other is going to make a huge difference in the big picture. so I'm surely not going to let it keep me up at night or stress me out.
if I need to take certain measures later on, I will. but I'm not going to chase numbers on blood work right now. I'll try to be as healthy as I can and let the cards fall where they will.
and again,, I'm not convinced by medical evidence that 'bad' cholesterol directly causes heart disease in the first place. so I can' worry about something that may not even exist

edit: if you have a family history of EARLY heart disease and cholesterol issues though. it definitely may be something you want to concern yourself with.. I'm just saying I personally am not concerning myself with it a whole lot

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## GearHeaded

just an fyi disclaimer here -

2 grams of test per week, 1 gram of tren per week, along with nearly a gram of other AAS is definitely NOT necessary for most you guys reading this log. For me a gram of test and 500mg a week of tren is really my sweet spot.

but keep in mind the context and title of this log being "crazy experiments". 

a lot of guys have opinions saying that low dose is definitely the way to go and anything higher is just a waste and causing side effects. other guys will swear by high dosages. a lot of us have opinions , but not a lot of us have actually experimented on ourselves and really formulated that opinion based on real experience. 

its like formulating an opinion about someone you don't even know. its not based on anything real. so too with AAS usage. lots of guys have their opinions, yet even some of the 'vets' probably only have a half dozen cycles under their belts and only ran a few different compounds over the years. how many times could they of really ran high dosage cycles with various compounds over the years if they only have ran 6 cycles total.
we all are entitled to our opinion, but often times its not based on anything substantial.

so sure I've read lots of theories. seen 'pro' cycles. understand how a lot of these things work at the cellular level to a small degree. I can explain in writing how high dosages can create more androgen receptors and illicit more gains over time etc. etc.. 
but my opinion, even for myself, has much more weight and bearing when its based on real world experience and self experiment.

so keep that in mind.. I'm running certain compounds at certain dosages for 'experiment' sake and not necessarily because thats the best thing for YOU or anyone else to do (even though doing things yourself will better help you formulate a valid opinion) .
I'm simply experimenting and trying to find out whats going to work best for me , and sharing that with you all

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## Obs

Novolog at 10iu every two hours, all day.
Do it!

Its good for your body.

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## GearHeaded

> Novolog at 10iu every two hours, all day.
> Do it!
> 
> Its good for your body.


1000g of carbs per day
2000mg of test a week
1000mg of tren per week
100iu of insulin per day

those are all pretty round numbers, sounds easy breezy to me

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## kelkel

> I'm simply experimenting and trying to find out whats going to work best for me , and sharing that with you all



And it's appreciated.

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## charger69

> 1000g of carbs per day
> 2000mg of test a week
> 1000mg of tren per week
> 100iu of insulin per day
> 
> those are all pretty round numbers, sounds easy breezy to me


Easy breezy- just after I kill everyone because they piss me off. 
Actually, I am more tolerant with people on tren because I know how to control it. I think to myself.... dont try that when Im not on tren because I will react. LOL
I tried 900 tren for two weeks- it felt like I wasnt alive anymore. NFW will I try 1000. 700 was good. 


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## MuscleScience

> 1000g of carbs per day
> 2000mg of test a week
> 1000mg of tren per week
> 100iu of insulin per day
> 
> those are all pretty round numbers, sounds easy breezy to me


Damn man, I couldn’t imagine 1g of Tren a week...

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## GearHeaded

> Damn man, I couldn’t imagine 1g of Tren a week...


yeah I only just started about 6 days ago and already feeling it. probably cause things are kicking in fast by combining the Tren E with Tren Ace and Tren suspension and injecting daily.

the 'being on edge' feeling, and restless sleep just started up last night . but keep in mind guys this is ONLY a 3 week long blast of Tren

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## Old Duffer

> yeah I only just started about 6 days ago and already feeling it. probably cause things are kicking in fast by combining the Tren E with Tren Ace and Tren suspension and injecting daily.
> 
> the 'being on edge' feeling, and restless sleep just started up last night . but keep in mind guys this is ONLY a 3 week long blast of Tren


Don't forget to add in the '6 months off with good behavior'

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## Obs

> yeah I only just started about 6 days ago and already feeling it. probably cause things are kicking in fast by combining the Tren E with Tren Ace and Tren suspension and injecting daily.
> 
> the 'being on edge' feeling, and restless sleep just started up last night . but keep in mind guys this is ONLY a 3 week long blast of Tren


I takes a couple months but my mentality finds normality afterward. Only side that seems to stay permanent is absolute dire sexual needs.

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## GearHeaded

> I takes a couple months but my mentality finds normality afterward. Only side that seems to stay permanent is absolute dire sexual needs.


yeah I know what you mean.. your mind gets used to feeling the way you feel and it becomes a new norm sort of speak. its when this shit first gets going and slaps you in the face your like "oh man F this shit , I want to sleep and feel normal" . after about week 6 your acclimated.

but to be honest, I've never personally ran Tren longer then 8 weeks . so if your talking running Tren for months on end and getting used to it at that point , your beyond where I've gone (but as you know I"m a big fan of compound rotation, so I don't run many compounds for long term anyways . EQ and Deca off the top of my head are compounds I've ran for months on end, but most everything else I'm usually rotating things in and out)

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## Obs

> yeah I know what you mean.. your mind gets used to feeling the way you feel and it becomes a new norm sort of speak. its when this shit first gets going and slaps you in the face your like "oh man F this shit , I want to sleep and feel normal" . after about week 6 your acclimated.
> 
> but to be honest, I've never personally ran Tren longer then 8 weeks . so if your talking running Tren for months on end and getting used to it at that point , your beyond where I've gone (but as you know I"m a big fan of compound rotation, so I don't run many compounds for long term anyways . EQ and Deca off the top of my head are compounds I've ran for months on end, but most everything else I'm usually rotating things in and out)


I ran it this year for most of the year. 
No great benefit. Rotation is necessary for sure. I just had to find out myself. 
I continually got leaner and more mass but other means would have been more effective. 

My penis didnt fly off though and I didn't turn into a lunatic as many would figure. 

I have noticed though that my jaw and overall skull shape has changed. Whether related I have no idea. 
Also have a much more pronounced butt chin. 
Possibly from gritting my teeth all year.

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## GearHeaded

any structural changes in jaw line and face etc. would have been from the very potent Androgenic aspect of Tren (5x more so then test). so running long term I'd imagine that is highly possible

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## MuscleScience

> yeah I know what you mean.. your mind gets used to feeling the way you feel and it becomes a new norm sort of speak. its when this shit first gets going and slaps you in the face your like "oh man F this shit , I want to sleep and feel normal" . after about week 6 your acclimated.
> 
> but to be honest, I've never personally ran Tren longer then 8 weeks . so if your talking running Tren for months on end and getting used to it at that point , your beyond where I've gone (but as you know I"m a big fan of compound rotation, so I don't run many compounds for long term *anyways . EQ and Deca off the top of my head are compounds I've ran for months on end, but most everything else I'm usually rotating things in and out)*


*
*

That include long esters for short periods?

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## charger69

> I takes a couple months but my mentality finds normality afterward. Only side that seems to stay permanent is absolute dire sexual needs.


Normality and Obs are antonyms!!


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## GearHeaded

> [/B]
> 
> That include long esters for short periods?


absolutely. 
eg. instead of running EQ for say 14 weeks at 500mg per week (which is like 3 bottles of EQ). Try running all 3 bottles in a short 6 week long time span instead... its not like the EQ is going anywhere. your body is still going to utilize all 3 bottles infected in 6 weeks instead of 14. then when your done with that 6 weeks move on to 6 weeks of deca , then 6 weeks of Tren . etc.. in the amount of time you were planning on running your little EQ cycle , 16 weeks, you'll of accomplished several full blown cycles instead with multiple compounds.
by rotating the compounds and moving on to new compounds, your able to give your receptors more and more 'information' instead of working with the same old information for a longer slower period.
and again, your body is still going to utilize the whole amount of drug that you use. so if you inject 7000mg of EQ over 6 short weeks its still going to use all 7000mg .. just like if you injected 7000mg over 16 weeks. the benefit to the shorter duration is you get to utilize all the eq you were planning on using , PLUS move on to more compounds in a lesser time frame


edit -
long ester drugs like Deca work great for long cycles like 12-16 weeks.. but long ester drugs like Deca also work great for short term cycles as well if they are dosed properly.
the 'Internet forum' folk lore dea that long ester drugs have to be ran a minimum of 12+ weeks to be effective is total BS

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## Obs

> Normality and Obs are antonyms!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No they are cinnamons!

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## charger69

> absolutely. 
> eg. instead of running EQ for say 14 weeks at 500mg per week (which is like 3 bottles of EQ). Try running all 3 bottles in a short 6 week long time span instead... its not like the EQ is going anywhere. your body is still going to utilize all 3 bottles infected in 6 weeks instead of 14. then when your done with that 6 weeks move on to 6 weeks of deca , then 6 weeks of Tren . etc.. in the amount of time you were planning on running your little EQ cycle , 16 weeks, you'll of accomplished several full blown cycles instead with multiple compounds.
> by rotating the compounds and moving on to new compounds, your able to give your receptors more and more 'information' instead of working with the same old information for a longer slower period.
> and again, your body is still going to utilize the whole amount of drug that you use. so if you inject 7000mg of EQ over 6 short weeks its still going to use all 7000mg .. just like if you injected 7000mg over 16 weeks. the benefit to the shorter duration is you get to utilize all the eq you were planning on using , PLUS move on to more compounds in a lesser time frame


Did you notice any additional sides from taking so much?
I frontloaded deca for a week and took caber for the first time. I dont think that I needed it however I did not want bitch tits. Obs was on tren and probably wouldnt have been able to resist. LOL


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## GearHeaded

> edit -
> long ester drugs like Deca work great for long cycles like 12-16 weeks.. but long ester drugs like Deca also work great for short term cycles as well if they are dosed properly.
> the 'Internet forum' folk lore dea that long ester drugs have to be ran a minimum of 12+ weeks to be effective is total BS


6000 mg of deca is 6000mg of deca . period. so you can divide that over 12 weeks if you like (run 500mg per week) OR you can divide that over 6 weeks if you like (run 1000mg per week).. and if you go with the 6 week option, when your done with that 6000mg of deca you can then move on to 6000mg of EQ and run that for 6 weeks as well. and in the end you've more then doubled your dosage and doubled your compounds in the same 12 week long period that the single run of deca at 500mg would have been.

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## GearHeaded

> Did you notice any additional sides from taking so much?
> I frontloaded deca for a week and took caber for the first time. I don’t think that I needed it however I did not want bitch tits. Obs was on tren and probably wouldn’t have been able to resist. LOL


well my observation , the guys that get the most side effects are your newbs running their first couple basic little cycles.

my point is, 'negative side effects' are all relative. we all get them to one degree or another, no matter if your a newb running only 500mg of test per week, or an advanced user running 4 grams per week. the side effects are all generally all the same.
so you can't necessarily say that 4000mg of gear a week causes more side effects then 500mg of gear per week , its person dependent and we all deal with very similar sides.

the side effects that I got with running deca at high dosage for 6 weeks were very similar to the side effects I've got running deca for years, the main difference was that they only lasted 6 weeks instead of the usual 14  :Smilie: 

of course the negative aspects that may appear on blood work is a more detailed topic. I'm just speaking to the general side effects FELT while running gear (we all get them to one degree on another no matter the dosage)

edit - I mean heck if your prolactin sensitive to begin with and you have to run Caber anyways at only 500mg per week of Deca, then shit might as well bump it up to 1000mg a week (your already getting all the negative sides at the 500mg anyways). why not run double the dosage for half the time so you only have to deal with the negative sides for half the time

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## Old Duffer

Thought provoking, but it's always about the sides isn't it? Your deca exa makes perfect sense. If Mr. Winky don't work anyway then crank it up!

But, as I recently learned, 350/wk tren meant sweats n dreams but 450/wk meant serious anxiety attack! A new side popped up at higher dose!

My other Q: if one can squeeze in 3 high dose runs (theoretical) in this same period, burning 3 times the gear costing 3 times the $$$, can you get 3 times the growth? Pounds of lean muscle/cubic dollar ;-)

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## GearHeaded

> But, as I recently learned, 350/wk tren meant sweats n dreams but 450/wk meant serious anxiety attack! A new side popped up at higher dose!


yep this is fairy common. especially when upping the dosage for the first time or running a new compound for the first time.. individually we just gotta decide four ourselves what side effects we can tolerate or want to tolerate and which ones we don't.
for me, I will never run a high dose deca cycle for 14 weeks again (I've done it numerous times). I simply chose to not want to go through the anxiety and issues that I get with deca at high dosage for that long, and don't like that when I come off of it the problem doesn't just go away.
for me I've learned that 1000-1500mg of Deca for 6 or so weeks is just fine though.
trail and error and self experimentation . find out sides that work or don't work for you personally 






> My other Q: if one can squeeze in 3 high dose runs (theoretical) in this same period, burning 3 times the gear costing 3 times the $$$, can you get 3 times the growth? Pounds of lean muscle/cubic dollar ;-)


well you can only build muscle so fast and turn over protein at a fixed rate.. its very hard to speed this process up by a whole lot.
but, you can invest in muscle building 'potential' over time.
what does this mean.

well running multiple compounds and high dosages isn't going to magically speed things up so fast you put on 50 pounds of muscle in two weeks. it still takes the time it takes BUT, by incorporating some of the techniques I bring up with compound rotation and high dosage blasts etc.. your able to 'potentiate' and invest in more future muscle gains that are then realized at a later date.
example - running three cycles in one , instead of just one cycle , in a single 12 week time frame, you still only have 12 weeks to build muscle in that cycle wither its the thee or the one , but with the three you may get a much larger upregulation of anabolic factors (like your body producing a ton more androgen receptors) WHICH can then be used for building muscle more efficiently at a later date.

hopefully that makes sense.. its getting late

heres an comparison example
lets say you run HGH for 6 months at 10iu per day. well maybe in that 6 month time frame you don't put on a ton of new muscle (again you only put on 6 months of whatever muscle was possible in only 6 months) BUT, what you did not see taking place at the cellular level was the HGH creating more satellite cells, and cell nuclei and causing hyperplasia.. all of these things will then be able to be tapped into at a latter date and ultimately you will put on more muscle.
that 6 month run of HGH was just an investment in your FUTURE physique . a year down the road when you run a bulking cycle and blow up with a ton of muscle cause you have that much more muscle cell to blow up, you'll then realize what you accomplished in the past with the HGH run

its the same with anaboics and AAS strategies . a lot of times your running a cycle for a future investment in gains and not the immediate .

another thing to consider..
think of every different steroid as a different 'micro chip' containing its own set of information. when you run that steroid your plugging that micro chip into the cells and communicating that information to the cell and making changes to your DNA .
so by rotating compounds and running AAS with a cycling approach over time your communicating all these different muscle building 'communicatins' and permatnatly altering your cells and your bodies ability to build muscle as well as creating new receptors, and the receptors that are created while under 'said communication' from an AAS is then more responsive to that AAS when used at a later date.

your not just running cycles to build muscle TODAY . its an investment in your future physique .

ok , now I'm getting out there deep going all 'matrix' or something lol

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## GearHeaded

update - my weight is back up to 210 pounds. The Tren and high dose Test are in full effect (combining tren e, tren ace, and tren suspension definitely gets things going quick). Insulin is 30-40iu per day. I dropped the Dbol though after only a couple days , as it was not settling well in my stomach. I had ran out of my normal source of Dbol which never gives me problems, and I ran this new source that had sent me some 50mg pills to try out but I just don't like them.

I've been pounding the carbs. things are getting a little 'dirty' just to get some calories in. however I've never bulked past the point of not having at least somewhat visible abs.. we'll see how things look after adding another 5-8 pounds. I'm going to maintain cardio sessions 3 days per week, I just don't want to lose my fitness level too much especially being on this much tren

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## Family_guy

> update - my weight is back up to 210 pounds. The Tren and high dose Test are in full effect (combining tren e, tren ace, and tren suspension definitely gets things going quick). Insulin is 30-40iu per day. I dropped the Dbol though after only a couple days , as it was not settling well in my stomach. I had ran out of my normal source of Dbol which never gives me problems, and I ran this new source that had sent me some 50mg pills to try out but I just don't like them.
> 
> I've been pounding the carbs. things are getting a little 'dirty' just to get some calories in. however I've never bulked past the point of not having at least somewhat visible abs.. we'll see how things look after adding another 5-8 pounds. I'm going to maintain cardio sessions 3 days per week, I just don't want to lose my fitness level too much especially being on this much tren


This is an awesome experiment log! Very interesting. Do you have any pics from when you started or currently?

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## GearHeaded

> This is an awesome experiment log! Very interesting. Do you have any pics from when you started or currently?


heres a couple pics I've posted in this thread already .. I'll be updating these and doing some all new pics at the end of this current cycling phase.

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## Family_guy

> heres a couple pics I've posted in this thread already .. I'll be updating these and doing some all new pics at the end of this current cycling phase.


Are those traps or wings by your neck? Shit! Look awesome dude. How tall are you?

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## GearHeaded

> Are those traps or wings by your neck? Shit! Look awesome dude. How tall are you?


strict smith machine shrugs and Haney shrugs are what I attribute to my trap development. I've got them to grow upwards, now I'm just trying to get them to grow down my back now (thats a challenge).

I'm a bit over 5'9

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## charger69

> update - my weight is back up to 210 pounds. The Tren and high dose Test are in full effect (combining tren e, tren ace, and tren suspension definitely gets things going quick). Insulin is 30-40iu per day. I dropped the Dbol though after only a couple days , as it was not settling well in my stomach. I had ran out of my normal source of Dbol which never gives me problems, and I ran this new source that had sent me some 50mg pills to try out but I just don't like them.
> 
> I've been pounding the carbs. things are getting a little 'dirty' just to get some calories in. however I've never bulked past the point of not having at least somewhat visible abs.. we'll see how things look after adding another 5-8 pounds. I'm going to maintain cardio sessions 3 days per week, I just don't want to lose my fitness level too much especially being on this much tren


Is your slin fast acting or R? I think that I may graduate to fast acting. 


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## GearHeaded

> Is your slin fast acting or R? I think that I may graduate to fast acting.


yeah I'm using R . I still plan on running Lantus combined with Humalog at some point here soon. the way my meal timing is the R works out really well for me with the secondary peak that comes in around the 2 hour mark, as I'm using Slin through the day and not just for workouts

IF your mainly using insulin around your workout , then fast acting may be a good option for you. a bit more rapid loading

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## Old Duffer

Not to gum up your blog, but am I to understand that in most states one can just walk up to the walmart pharmacy n ask for Novalog-R?

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## charger69

> Not to gum up your blog, but am I to understand that in most states one can just walk up to the walmart pharmacy n ask for Novalog-R?


Yes.


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## charger69

> yeah I'm using R . I still plan on running Lantus combined with Humalog at some point here soon. the way my meal timing is the R works out really well for me with the secondary peak that comes in around the 2 hour mark, as I'm using Slin through the day and not just for workouts
> 
> IF your mainly using insulin around your workout , then fast acting may be a good option for you. I bit more rapid loading


Can you give me the secret with R of being able to get in 40? I may try that. I like the R and am very used to the peaks, 


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## charger69

> heres a couple pics I've posted in this thread already .. I'll be updating these and doing some all new pics at the end of this current cycling phase.


Looking awesome!!!


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## GearHeaded

> Can you give me the secret with R of being able to get in 40? I may try that. I like the R and am very used to the peaks,


sure . well for one, don't even attempt it if your in any sort of re-comping or dieting phase and your carbohydrates are time restricted at all. 
the key is to be able to eat at least 40g of carbs every couple of hours. By feeding yourself a steady supply of carbs all day you don't really have a lot of peaks and valleys.
also, by running higher dosages of slin throughout the day it increases your appetite quite a bit. so really every hour or so I'm craving some carbs.

I did go hypo once with this strategy. and that was during a workout. the problem was I was still taking the exact same amount of intra workout nutrition that I always take. I forget that even though my pre workout insulin dosage was the same as I've done for years, that I had injected insulin a couple other times already earlier that day. so now I simply run double the amount of carbs in my intra workout drink.

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## charger69

> sure . well for one, don't even attempt it if your in any sort of re-comping or dieting phase and your carbohydrates are time restricted at all. 
> the key is to be able to eat at least 40g of carbs every couple of hours. By feeding yourself a steady supply of carbs all day you don't really have a lot of peaks and valleys.
> also, by running higher dosages of slin throughout the day it increases your appetite quite a bit. so really every hour or so I'm craving some carbs.
> 
> I did go hypo once with this strategy. and that was during a workout. the problem was I was still taking the exact same amount of intra workout nutrition that I always take. I forget that even though my pre workout insulin dosage was the same as I've done for years, that I had injected insulin a couple other times already earlier that day. so now I simply run double the amount of carbs in my intra workout drink.


Thanks!!! I guess Ill wait until after my competition. 
When is your comp??


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## GearHeaded

> Thanks!!! I guess I’ll wait until after my competition. 
> When is your comp??


you could implement the strategy on your re-feed days now 

comp in may, June, and then October . haven't committed yet. depending on my progress I may end up shooting for October (as I'm still trying to put on the size). had a client doing June and had originally thought about doing that with him, but he has kinda fallen off the bandwagon (he just had a kid)

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## charger69

> you could implement the strategy on your re-feed days now 
> 
> comp in may, June, and then October . haven't committed yet. depending on my progress I may end up shooting for October (as I'm still trying to put on the size). had a client doing June and had originally thought about doing that with him, but he has kinda fallen off the bandwagon (he just had a kid)


I found that if I wait for my progress, I will never compete because I am never satisfied. LOL

How much do you take and how often with the R?
I may try it on leg day..... my weak point. 


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## GearHeaded

> I found that if I wait for my progress, I will never compete because I am never satisfied. LOL
> 
> How much do you take and how often with the R?
> I may try it on leg day..... my weak point.


yeah I hear ya. by nature we are probably always going to feel we could always be bigger.

I'll take 5-10iu of slin first thing in the morning with meal 1 . another 10iu late morning with meal 2 or 3. 10iu pre workout. and 15iu post workout.

if you do try it on leg day, then its probably a good thing you train in the morning. cause running slin thoughout the day can cause some lethargy.
thats what I'm struggling with now with my evening workouts

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## charger69

Thanks man!!!
You have a kick ass memory!!!


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## balance

> 


Crazy taper! What’s your waist?

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## GearHeaded

> Crazy taper! What’s your waist?


its 29" when dieting.. thats one benefit of having a small bone structure. of course it takes a lot more muscle to fill your structure out though (thats why getting to 220+ at my height and frame will be a bit of a challenge)

----------


## Charlie67

> yeah I hear ya. by nature we are probably always going to feel we could always be bigger.
> 
> I'll take 5-10iu of slin first thing in the morning with meal 1 . another 10iu late morning with meal 2 or 3. 10iu pre workout. and 15iu post workout.
> 
> if you do try it on leg day, then its probably a good thing you train in the morning. cause running slin thoughout the day can cause some lethargy.
> thats what I'm struggling with now with my evening workouts


How would someone new to insulin figure out how much they need to take? (Other then walking up post-collapse and saying, "well shit, that was to much"). For example, do you eat a bunch of carbs, take a hit of slin, and use a glucometer?

In other words, how to you start safely?

(I'm sorry of you've answered this somewhere already, if you have i can go search it out).

I truly appreciate the knowledge you drop around this place.

C-

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## Obs

> How would someone new to insulin figure out how much they need to take? (Other then walking up post-collapse and saying, "well shit, that was to much"). For example, do you eat a bunch of carbs, take a hit of slin, and use a glucometer?
> 
> In other words, how to you start safely?
> 
> (I'm sorry of you've answered this somewhere already, if you have i can go search it out).
> 
> I truly appreciate the knowledge you drop around this place.
> 
> C-


I am currently at mcdonalds soaked in sweat. I just had 10iu kick my ass.

When you go hypo you will know it.
You keep fast acting carbs on hand always and map your blood at least until you know how you react.
Start low and go slow.

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## Charlie67

> I am currently at mcdonalds soaked in sweat. I just had 10iu kick my ass.
> 
> When you go hypo you will know it.
> You keep fast acting carbs on hand always and map your blood at least until you know how you react.
> Start low and go slow.


Lol, glad you're okay! That's exactly what I'd like to avoid. Especially the being at McDonald's part... But those damn double quarter pounders  :Smilie:

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## Family_guy

> yeah I'm using R . I still plan on running Lantus combined with Humalog at some point here soon. the way my meal timing is the R works out really well for me with the secondary peak that comes in around the 2 hour mark, as I'm using Slin through the day and not just for workouts
> 
> IF your mainly using insulin around your workout , then fast acting may be a good option for you. a bit more rapid loading


I actually used Lantus at like 15iu a day a couple years ago. I wasn’t working out and I didn’t know what I was doing but I wanted to see what would happen. I went from 145 to 157 in like 5 weeks. Definitely gained some fat but not bad. It was pretty awesome to gain like that without doing much else except for eating and working construction! 

Have you used Lantus before?

----------


## Family_guy

> How would someone new to insulin figure out how much they need to take? (Other then walking up post-collapse and saying, "well shit, that was to much"). For example, do you eat a bunch of carbs, take a hit of slin, and use a glucometer?
> 
> In other words, how to you start safely?
> 
> (I'm sorry of you've answered this somewhere already, if you have i can go search it out).
> 
> I truly appreciate the knowledge you drop around this place.
> 
> C-



Isn’t the rule of thumb somewhere around 10g carbs per unit of insulin?

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## GearHeaded

hey Charlie. well theres quite a few ways to implement different insulin protocols , but thats dependent on your goal and reasons for using insulin.

but no matter the protocol your going to want to get a blood glucose meter (don't even think about insulin use without one). you'll then want to start monitoring your morning fasted blood sugar levels and your post perineal blood sugar levels.
if your fasted blood sugar levels are say 75 before using insulin, and then say 6 weeks after using insulin all that time they are then averaging 105 then you know you've become a bit insulin resistant and its time for a break.
monitoring your post perineal blood sugars is going to tell you how well you process a carb meal. so take this reading about 1.5 hours after eating a carb meal consting of at least 40g of carbs. you should be 130 or under. if your over 130 then you have either some insulin resistance issues, or your not naturally producing enough insulin.

^ these are some basic things you want to know before using insulin.

now once you start using insulin (I'm going to keep this as short as possible) , you can simply start by using 10g of carbs per IU of insulin you use (again this may vary depending on your protocol and insulin type). so take 10iu of Insulin and then consume 100g of carbs. then take your post perineal blood sugar reading. IF your way over 130 then you took in too many carbs for the amount of insulin , if your under 70 and going hypo then you didn't take enough carbs . so just keep doing this and adjust the carbs and dosage as necessary .
keep in mind your body changes over time. sometimes you may dial it in where you know you need 4g of carbs per IU of insulin ,, yet a few months later your sensitivity has changed (through diet and lifestyle modifications) and now you need 8g of carbs.

^ that is all VERY VERY basic. quite a bit more to it then that , but just to give you a rough idea

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## GearHeaded

UPDATE -

So as excepted . the initial gram of Tren and 2 grams of test kicking in and making me feel like shit and on edge and totally unable to sleep has simply now become my new normal. I'm getting accustomed to it. I'll just live, eat, train, work , etc. and do all that I need to do , doesn't matter how I feel or not. 
when it first hits you, you second guess your self and question wither or not you want to go through with feeling uncomfortable like this or not. but then a few days pass and your used to it.

so now fuck it, its all about the gains !!

The 'Tren Stregth' is kicking in. on my press day I incline hammer strength pressed 5 plates per side and that didn't phase me (haven't went that heavy in awhile) . overhead press 205 for very very strict form (all on my delts) and repped it out for multiple sets of 8-10. hit some arms and hammer curled 90lb dumbbells for sets of 12.

this is why I don't run Tren for longer then 6-8 weeks or so. getting amped up and a lot stronger is great, but it can only last for a short phase. otherwise I feel your going to just wreck yourself always pushing heavier and heavier weight. 

but I'll take it for now.
the only time I feel good and normal is the 2-3 hours I'm in the gym. so feeling strong is a big bonus right now

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## charger69

> UPDATE -
> 
> So as excepted . the initial gram of Tren and 2 grams of test kicking in and making me feel like shit and on edge and totally unable to sleep has simply now become my new normal. I'm getting accustomed to it. I'll just live, eat, train, work , etc. and do all that I need to do , doesn't matter how I feel or not. 
> when it first hits you, you second guess your self and question wither or not you want to go through with feeling uncomfortable like this or not. but then a few days pass and your used to it.
> 
> so now fuck it, its all about the gains !!
> 
> The 'Tren Stregth' is kicking in. on my press day I incline hammer strength pressed 5 plates per side and that didn't phase me (haven't went that heavy in awhile) . overhead press 205 for very very strict form (all on my delts) and repped it out for multiple sets of 8-10. hit some arms and hammer curled 90lb dumbbells for sets of 12.
> 
> ...


Are you actually training 2-3 hours in one session? Including cardio?


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## GearHeaded

not sure if anyone has noticed or not , but my current cycle phase is 
Test/ Tren / Mast
which is a traditional and popular contest prep or cutting cycle . however I'm using it for massing.

to mass I'm having to implement these drugs a bit differently.
so cycle is
test e 2000mg per week
Tren 1000mg per week (e, ace, and suspension)
Mast p 525mg per week

to gain size with this cycle, rather then lean out like most guys use it for, I'm running 2 grams of test with no AI. This is going to get my estrogen pretty elevated, which is going to work synergistically with the super high amounts of androgens I'm running (when you do the math I'm running 7500mg per week of testosterone equivalent androgens). the super high amount of androgens will off set some of the negative sides that can come with elevated estrogen, yet enhance the positive benefits of the growth that comes with elevated estrogen.

TREN is very very synergistic for muscle growth when combined with high levels of estrogen (this is why ranchers inject cattle with not only Tren to bulk them up, but high amounts of estrogen).

the masteron is in there as a secondary androgen but will help keep my free levels of test on the high end, and also blunt some of the negative effects that can come from prolactin .

so thats how you run a Test/tren/mast cycle for growth rather then for cutting.

of course adding 40iu a day of insulin helps too 

just for reference a traditional Test/tren/mast cycle for a cut would look like
400mg test per week
700mg Tren per week
500mg mast per week
AI

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## charger69

> not sure if anyone has noticed or not , but my current cycle phase is 
> Test/ Tren / Mast
> which is a traditional and popular contest prep or cutting cycle . however I'm using it for massing.
> 
> to mass I'm having to implement these drugs a bit differently.
> so cycle is
> test e 2000mg per week
> Tren 1000mg per week (e, ace, and suspension)
> Mast p 525mg per week
> ...


Hey, you stole my cut cycle.... LOL. Just add a little Winnie.


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## GearHeaded

> Hey, you stole my cut cycle.... LOL. Just add a little Winnie.


just pinned the last of my oil based winstrol a couple days ago  :Smilie:

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## GearHeaded

> Are you actually training 2-3 hours in one session? Including cardio?


yeah I'm doing weights and cardio right now (I don't want my cardio to go to shit while on Tren , its hard enough to just tie my shoes).
my sessions are pretty long right now. but keep in mind thats because I know my strength is going way up on Tren, I really take my time with my workouts and do a ton of warm up and non working sets. I also will take 5+ min breaks and long rests when hitting the intensity sets.
I'm gong for size right now. I don't need to keep my heart rate up while training with heavy weight. I just need quality lifts

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## KennyJ

GH, I read in another thread about how it's a grind for you on your advanced cycles and you explained how you felt. I could definitely understand this with the amounts you run but do you know of any real scientific evidence of downregulation on D1/D2 dopamine receptors or if it was that one single study that the other guy posted?

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## GearHeaded

> GH, I read in another thread about how it's a grind for you on your advanced cycles and you explained how you felt. I could definitely understand this with the amounts you run but do you know of any real scientific evidence of downregulation on D1/D2 dopamine receptors or if it was that one single study that the other guy posted?


unfortunately there is not going to be any solid scientific evidence or studies on these things to any substantial degree. thats because the population pool of guys running "non human grade'' drugs like Trenbolone at super high dosages is just not there. theres really not enough subjects to study and more then likely the study couldn't be conducted with real world body builder dosages because it would be deemed 'too dangerous' or 'unethical' .
so we just have to keep being our own test subjects and see what happens.

but keep in mind that steroids have been around for 60+ years. I'm not aware of a lot of retired body builders who took massive amounts of steroids walking around with mental disorders at any higher rate then anyone else.
the odds of having mental problems are probably 100 times greater from simply drinking alcohol regularly or being diabetic (both very common in todays society).
I'd be more worried about your dentist giving you a script for opioids then I would be about your gym bro giving you some Tren .

but thats stuff that is beyond my "expertise" . I'm more focused on androgen receptors then dopamine receptors at this point  :Smilie:

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## KennyJ

> unfortunately there is not going to be any solid scientific evidence or studies on these things to any substantial degree. thats because the population pool of guys running "non human grade'' drugs like Trenbolone at super high dosages is just not there. theres really not enough subjects to study and more then likely the study couldn't be conducted with real world body builder dosages because it would be deemed 'too dangerous' or 'unethical' .
> so we just have to keep being our own test subjects and see what happens.
> 
> but keep in mind that steroids have been around for 60+ years. I'm not aware of a lot of retired body builders who took massive amounts of steroids walking around with mental disorders at any higher rate then anyone else.
> the odds of having mental problems are probably 100 times greater from simply drinking alcohol regularly or being diabetic (both very common in todays society).
> I'd be more worried about your dentist giving you a script for opioids then I would be about your gym bro giving you some Tren .
> 
> but thats stuff that is beyond my "expertise" . I'm more focused on androgen receptors then dopamine receptors at this point


Gotcha, yea I haven't even opened the study to read it because I think he said it was done on rats. I may check it out when I get a chance.

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## Charlie67

> hey Charlie. well theres quite a few ways to implement different insulin protocols , but thats dependent on your goal and reasons for using insulin.
> 
> but no matter the protocol your going to want to get a blood glucose meter (don't even think about insulin use without one). you'll then want to start monitoring your morning fasted blood sugar levels and your post perineal blood sugar levels.
> if your fasted blood sugar levels are say 75 before using insulin, and then say 6 weeks after using insulin all that time they are then averaging 105 then you know you've become a bit insulin resistant and its time for a break.
> monitoring your post perineal blood sugars is going to tell you how well you process a carb meal. so take this reading about 1.5 hours after eating a carb meal consting of at least 40g of carbs. you should be 130 or under. if your over 130 then you have either some insulin resistance issues, or your not naturally producing enough insulin.
> 
> ^ these are some basic things you want to know before using insulin.
> 
> now once you start using insulin (I'm going to keep this as short as possible) , you can simply start by using 10g of carbs per IU of insulin you use (again this may vary depending on your protocol and insulin type). so take 10iu of Insulin and then consume 100g of carbs. then take your post perineal blood sugar reading. IF your way over 130 then you took in too many carbs for the amount of insulin , if your under 70 and going hypo then you didn't take enough carbs . so just keep doing this and adjust the carbs and dosage as necessary .
> ...


Thanks for that GH, I appreciate the advice.

I'm not sure about getting into insulin just yet, but this seems like a great, and safe, way to get started. Thanks again!

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## charger69

> Thanks for that GH, I appreciate the advice.
> 
> I'm not sure about getting into insulin just yet, but this seems like a great, and safe, way to get started. Thanks again!


Charlie,
I was scared shitless that it would kill me and I was determined never to try it. I met GH and he went through it in an elementary level and I said, lets try it. 
I did and it is not that bad thing that will kill you. I will say, you need to respect it. 
GH gave the protocol and I followed it- no problems. 
I did always have glycogen tablets available in a hurry. 


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## Obs

Do it or you have no balls

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## Charlie67

> Do it or you have no balls


Haha, Obs, you missed your calling as a motivational speaker.... I'm pretty sure that was the EXACT same advice that got me to try pot the first time.



> Charlie,
> I was scared shitless that it would kill me and I was determined never to try it. I met GH and he went through it in an elementary level and I said, lets try it. 
> I did and it is not that bad thing that will kill you. I will say, you need to respect it. 
> GH gave the protocol and I followed it- no problems. 
> I did always have glycogen tablets available in a hurry. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks Charger, it's a little less about fear and more about need. I can't quite seem to figure out what it will do for me given my current diet/training. I think I need to figure out a goal and then see how insulin might help me get there. I'm kind of just treading water right now, and have been since the end of the last competition in October. I know we talked a few times about me maybe doing a show in the next year or two... But until I get my mind set on something, adding insulin just complicates things for me. there's about 10 more paragraphs I want to add to this, but I don't want to hijack GH's thread.

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## KennyJ

In layman's terms how anabolic is insulin compared to other hormones?

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## GearHeaded

> In layman's terms how anabolic is insulin compared to other hormones?


if it wasn't for Insulin (endogenous) we wouldn't be able to build muscle. we could take all the tren in the world and still wouldn't build muscle without insulin. insulin is the 'key' that unlocks muscle cells and allows them to receive glycogen, amino acids, nutrients, and everything else needed to build muscle.

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## EDCG19

So a few things. I'm a bit late but just noticed this thread and read through it 
Number 1 thanks for posting this and keeping it detailed the way you did, there's a lot of information here
Number 2 it seems like any questions I did have tons of others already asked and they were answered which gave me the answers I was looking for and some of the stuff you mentioned here I haven't heard of someone running a cycle like this but I have to ask, did you run any additional blood work throughout this trial period or are you going strictly by feel and don't run any mid/post bloods? How does this work when your prolactin or estrogen is messed up you just go by feel and add in caber/AI or you ran none of this during this whole experiment?? 

How long have you been cycling anyway, it seems like you need to write a book or something...

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## charger69

> So a few things. I'm a bit late but just noticed this thread and read through it 
> Number 1 thanks for posting this and keeping it detailed the way you did, there's a lot of information here
> Number 2 it seems like any questions I did have tons of others already asked and they were answered which gave me the answers I was looking for and some of the stuff you mentioned here I haven't heard of someone running a cycle like this but I have to ask, did you run any additional blood work throughout this trial period or are you going strictly by feel and don't run any mid/post bloods? How does this work when your prolactin or estrogen is messed up you just go by feel and add in caber/AI or you ran none of this during this whole experiment?? 
> 
> How long have you been cycling anyway, it seems like you need to write a book or something...


He is.


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## KennyJ

> if it wasn't for Insulin (endogenous) we wouldn't be able to build muscle. we could take all the tren in the world and still wouldn't build muscle without insulin. insulin is the 'key' that unlocks muscle cells and allows them to receive glycogen, amino acids, nutrients, and everything else needed to build muscle.


Thanks GH, I had read about the effects on glycogen, amino acids, nutrients etc. from insulin in an article somewhere. I'm just trying to educate myself about it. I'm not thinking of incorporating extra insulin anytime soon but I want to know everything about it in case I ever do. 
There are 2 things that really scare me in the whole AAS world.
The first one is HGH just simply because it makes absolutely everything grow.
The second one is insulin for the obvious reasons.

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## GearHeaded

UPDATE-

So now I know how Jay Cutler used to diet and contest prep and still get shredded on 1000 grams of carbs per day .
it was 2g of Test and a gram of Tren with Mast.

Yes as crazy as it sounds I'm actually having trouble trying to stay 'full' and get in enough carbs even though I'm running a shit ton of Androgens (which generally helps you carb load) and a bunch of insulin . 
heck I've even started adding in some cheat meals and 'dirty' food just to get some more carbs in, yet I've lost a couple pounds (and thats even over Christmas meals).

I'm going to need to start force feeding the Carbs if I want to grow.
but if I ever want to get super shredded, high dose tren and high amounts of androgens is a sure fire way to do it.

whoever says that steroids don't burn fat has never ran a gram of Tren a week with 2 grams of test

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## GearHeaded

> So a few things. I'm a bit late but just noticed this thread and read through it 
> Number 1 thanks for posting this and keeping it detailed the way you did, there's a lot of information here
> Number 2 it seems like any questions I did have tons of others already asked and they were answered which gave me the answers I was looking for and some of the stuff you mentioned here I haven't heard of someone running a cycle like this but I have to ask, did you run any additional blood work throughout this trial period or are you going strictly by feel and don't run any mid/post bloods? How does this work when your prolactin or estrogen is messed up you just go by feel and add in caber/AI or you ran none of this during this whole experiment?? 
> 
> How long have you been cycling anyway, it seems like you need to write a book or something...


well I don't run "traditional" cycles and have not in quite some time. by "traditional cycles'' I mean your general 10-14 week long cycle utilizing a couple compounds followed by PCT or an off phase.
you can see some of the concepts I employ here -
https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...protocols.html

being my cycles are not 'traditional' it doesn't make sense for me personally to follow the blood work protocols for cycling that you may find recommended on a forum like this.
for example, why would I bother getting estrogen on blood work checked if I know that I'm purposely going to blast high dosages of estrogenic compounds for say 4 weeks (like Test, Dbol ) without using an AI for the sole purpose of substantially raising my estrogen levels.
it would be pointless. I can't utilize blood work to find a certain range of estrogen that I want to stay within because I'm constantly fluctuating my estrogen levels (on purpose), as well as my androgen levels (which effect estrogen as well).

eg.. if my estrogen is 3x the normal level, this may be a problem for someone on TRT. but if I'm in an Androgen phase and my Androgens are 10x the normal levels, then 3x the normal level of estrogen isn't going to be an issue for me (in fact it is beneficial in most cases).

so its really pointless for me to get traditional blood work and get estrogen levels and test levels checked at anytime during my blasting phases (which may last up to 9 months).
I'm also constantly rotating compounds dependent on what phase of cycling I may be in. so again checking for example SHBG one week on blood work is pointless if 2 weeks later I'm going to end up taking a drug that drastically effects my SHBG.

getting occasional blood work done CBC to check the basics and health factors etc.. once per year is all I really do. and thats generally done during a 'down phase' when I'm just cruising and have no immediate plans of blasting or rotating compounds. (eg., 150mg test per week with 400mg eq would be a cruise and 'off cycle' phase).

I also believe that its possible some of the drugs that we take may give 'false positive' readings on blood work. and that some blood work when taking massive amounts of gear and multiple compounds is simply inaccurate and irrelevant on some aspects.
eg.. running a 'tren only' cycle yet blood work shows estrogen levels are off the charts and test levels are zero. thats utter bullshit. its a false reading from the drug.
Dave Palumbo believes this is possible with Lipid panels and specifically HDL as well . eg.. being on 100mg of VAR and your HDL on cycle has went down from 41 to say 7 in just a few weeks. yet when you come off the Var your HDL is back to normal. its not that your HDL is really crashed and your in some sort of great risk, its simply mechanism of action that are going on with the drug your taking in the body and its giving a type of 'false positive' and thats why when you stop taking the drug everything is totally normal.


edit - a lot of guys try to cycle gear and take the TRT approach to getting blood work and monitoring things. they run a cycle and attempt to keep everything in 'normal' ranges . but this is not really possible IF your running real legit gear and your running high enough dosages.
really if your running shit to put on substantial amounts of muscle, your blood work should be off the charts and way out of normal ranges in multiple areas. trying to run a cycle and still keep everything within range like your a TRT patient is going to get you "trt" like results. not steroid cycle like results. imo

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## GearHeaded

Note -

some of the things that I may advocate or do myself in this thread are MY personal choices. they may not be the healthiest things to do and may not be suitable for guys reading this thread to do. its simply what I'm doing and my goal right now is not 100% focused on health, its focused on getting jacked and huge and transforming my physique (that my come with consequences)

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## KennyJ

what's the highest levels of test you can ever recall after bloodwork? I would love to know what they are at 2 or 3 months into a blast where you are running a very advanced cycle.
Do you know if any labs offer a more sensitive type bloodwork for testosterone etc. being that normally labs are not seeing the type of levels one gets from running an advanced cycle?

----------


## GearHeaded

> what's the highest levels of test you can ever recall after bloodwork? I would love to know what they are at 2 or 3 months into a blast where you are running a very advanced cycle.
> Do you know if any labs offer a more sensitive type bloodwork for testosterone etc. being that normally labs are not seeing the type of levels one gets from running an advanced cycle?


I haven't paid to have my Test levels checked on blood work in years. and previously the last several times I did it was through a doctor that used a lab that only measure up to 2500 so my blood work just came back as >2500. as for estrogen its been in the 400s (off the top of my head)

keep in mind though that you can be on a heavy cycle and still have normal Test levels.
example - 
150mg a week of test (TRT)
1500mg a week of Primo
100mg a day VAR

and your test levels should come back normal around 700 ng/dl . your TRT doc wouldn't even know your on a cycle if you don't crank up the test dosage (gotta be careful with some drugs like Tren and Deca throwing false positives though)

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## EDCG19

> edit - a lot of guys try to cycle gear and take the TRT approach to getting blood work and monitoring things. they run a cycle and attempt to keep everything in 'normal' ranges . but this is not really possible IF your running real legit gear and your running high enough dosages.
> really if your running shit to put on substantial amounts of muscle, your blood work should be off the charts and way out of normal ranges in multiple areas. trying to run a cycle and still keep everything within range like your a TRT patient is going to get you "trt" like results. not steroid cycle like results. imo


Yea I understand completely. I've thrown this question around before so figured I would ask how you stay on top of everything running the dosages you do and changing things up frequently without constant bloodwork but you're 100% correct. Your bloodwork will be off the charts anyway if you're running high enough doses so going crazy with the bloodwork is a waste of money at that point





> I also believe that its possible some of the drugs that we take may give 'false positive' readings on blood work. and that some blood work when taking massive amounts of gear and multiple compounds is simply inaccurate and irrelevant on some aspects.
> eg.. running a 'tren only' cycle yet blood work shows estrogen levels are off the charts and test levels are zero. thats utter bullshit. its a false reading from the drug.


Doesn't tren and something like var, primo etc... not really affect testosterone levels anyway?




> I haven't paid to have my Test levels checked on blood work in years. and previously the last several times I did it was through a doctor that used a lab that only measure up to 2500 so my blood work just came back as >2500. as for estrogen its been in the 400s (off the top of my head)
> 
> keep in mind though that you can be on a heavy cycle and still have normal Test levels.
> example - 
> 150mg a week of test (TRT)
> 1500mg a week of Primo
> 100mg a day VAR
> 
> and your test levels should come back normal around 700 ng/dl . your TRT doc wouldn't even know your on a cycle if you don't crank up the test dosage (gotta be careful with some drugs like Tren and Deca throwing false positives though)


What's your opinion on primo? I have heard/read before primo is kind of weak and needs to be run on higher doses for shorter times to get any real benefit since it works well on women but on men you would need to run over a gram to see real benefit.

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## charger69

I personally do get my bloods checked. I have it in my head that there is a benefit at my age. When off cycle, I do try to get everything within tolerance. As I get older, I do see changes happening. 
Speaking of that, I am showing slightly anemic.
Result. Range
HGB. 13.3. 14-18
HCT. 40.3. 42-52
MCH. 26.7. 27-35
RDW, blood 14.9. 11.5-14.5

What can I do to raise the values? 
I am starting a cycle next week and doc will want another test. 


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## EDCG19

> I personally do get my bloods checked. I have it in my head that there is a benefit at my age. When off cycle, I do try to get everything within tolerance. As I get older, I do see changes happening. 
> Speaking of that,* I am showing slightly anemic.*


Asking out of curiosity but doesn't testosterone or AAS use help anemia rather than cause issues with HGB/HCT production? What do you think the cause is from in your case? 
Are you the guy who donates every month??

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## GearHeaded

> Doesn't tren and something like var, primo etc... not really affect testosterone levels anyway?


they shouldn't. but it depends on the lab doing the blood work. some labs Deca will pull a false positive for high testosterone , some labs Tren will pull a false positive for high estrogen (even though it can't convert to estrogen).

the thing is, how many other factors on your blood work may be completely wrong or off or in accurate because of the drugs your taking.
if Tren does not convert to estrogen at all , yet will show up on blood work as super high estrogen (which is totally false), then what else is messed up on such a blood test?
thats why I don't trust on cycle blood work 




> What's your opinion on primo? I have heard/read before primo is kind of weak and needs to be run on higher doses for shorter times to get any real benefit since it works well on women but on men you would need to run over a gram to see real benefit.


a lot of guys don't realize that Primobolan is mainly a PURE anabolic . this means that its not really going to be 'felt'. when your on cycle and you 'feel' a drug working, your NOT feeling the anabolic effects of the drug for the most part, your feeling the estrogenic and androgenic effects of the drug (eg.,, test, tren, dbol . are all drugs that guys 'feel' kick in after a few weeks).
a pure anabolic is simply in the background doing things like increasing protein synthesis and slowly and surely building muscle tissue. theres nothing to 'feel' until that tissue is actually there .

thats why guys think Primo is weak. cause they are so dependent on the 'feeling' the mental aspects of the drugs and know nothing of the pure anabolic aspects. 

primo is one of the most complex steroids available. its one of the most efficient and side effect free at the same time.
if you could run Primo, HGH, and Test year round at high dosages (and high amounts of $) then you would have no need to run any other drug to achieve and awesome physique.
however most guys don't have the $ or the patience to do this. so Primo gets passed over as an expensive and weak drug.
Arnolds Physique was mainly built off of Primo. he didn't even run test

----------


## Obs

> Note -
> 
> some of the things that I may advocate or do myself in this thread are MY personal choices. they may not be the healthiest things to do and may not be suitable for guys reading this thread to do. its simply what I'm doing and my goal right now is not 100% focused on health, its focused on getting jacked and huge and transforming my physique (that my come with consequences)


What he is trying to say is... 

If you dont do it you have no balls. 
Die young die strong dianabol .

----------


## charger69

> Asking out of curiosity but doesn't testosterone or AAS use help anemia rather than cause issues with HGB/HCT production? What do you think the cause is from in your case? 
> Are you the guy who donates every month??


I did when on high tren . Tren would have me on the high side. 
I could feel it in the cardio. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## GearHeaded

> I personally do get my bloods checked. I have it in my head that there is a benefit at my age. When off cycle, I do try to get everything within tolerance. As I get older, I do see changes happening. 
> Speaking of that, I am showing slightly anemic.
> Result. Range
> HGB. 13.3. 14-18
> HCT. 40.3. 42-52
> MCH. 26.7. 27-35
> RDW, blood 14.9. 11.5-14.5
> 
> What can I do to raise the values? 
> I am starting a cycle next week and doc will want another test.


this is not a common problem with us AAS users. so I'm no expert. but first things first I would look at your diet, and look into how or if your properly assimilating your nutrients, and making sure you're getting the right micro nutrients to begin with.
you may have digestive issues and are not getting all you need in your diet. 
hows your iron levels ?
red meat intake high or low ?

also perhaps consider running a therapeutic dosage of Deca with your TRT. also lay off blood donations

----------


## Obs

> I did when on high tren . Tren would have me on the high side. 
> I could feel it in the cardio. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think I get high on tren too!
Its like....
RRRRRRAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGHHH

----------


## EDCG19

> *the thing is, how many other factors on your blood work may be completely wrong or off or in accurate because of the drugs your taking.
> if Tren does not convert to estrogen at all , yet will show up on blood work as super high estrogen (which is totally false), then what else is messed up on such a blood test?
> thats why I don't trust on cycle blood work 
> *


Yea this makes complete sense. You're adding in more gear so your blood levels will rise as they are supposed to, adding in additional blood work will just be money down the drain

----------


## GearHeaded

> Yea this makes complete sense. You're adding in more gear so your blood levels will rise as they are supposed to, adding in additional blood work will just be money down the drain


as I mentioned earlier , some fairly smart people in this industry go so far as to think things like Cholesterol values while on gear are 'false' readings and not accurate. like if you were on VAR and your HDL drops from 40s to 7 , that thats a 'false positive' for having crappy cholesterol levels (when there is more gong on behind the scenes because of what your taking) and thats why when you come off the VAR it goes right back to normal (truly bad levels can't correct themselves that quickly .. but a "false positive'' can once you get off the drug causing it)

^I'm not going so far as to say that personally . just saying some people do believe this and if this was the case it would make on cycle blood work that much more worthless

----------


## Obs

Attachment 175272

----------


## charger69

> Attachment 175272


Obs- Behave
You cant make a deal with the devil if you are the devil, can you?
You are up to no good.... I can just sense it based on your sporadic posts. 

Wifey was pissed at me yesterday. I cleaned out the food in the house. What do you expect with 40 of slin??
She was planning on reheating something for my son.... nope gone- she had to cook something for him. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Obs

> Ob’s- Behave
> You can’t make a deal with the devil if you are the devil, can you?
> You are up to no good.... I can just sense it based on your sporadic posts. 
> 
> Wifey was pissed at me yesterday. I cleaned out the food in the house. What do you expect with 40 of slin??
> She was planning on reheating something for my son.... nope gone- she had to cook something for him. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am just advertising that I am here to make deals. 
People are more likely to do it if they see the others are doing it. 

Have you tried rapid acting yet?

----------


## charger69

> I am just advertising that I am here to make deals. 
> People are more likely to do it if they see the others are doing it. 
> 
> Have you tried rapid acting yet?


No, but I got some in Mexico. I am scared shitless of trying it. I know how the R works and Exactly how to control if I missed normal protocol. I am thinking on using it in the evening for my second workout, but I need to have things in order before I start. 


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## Obs

> No, but I got some in Mexico. I am scared shitless of trying it. I know how the R works and Exactly how to control if I missed normal protocol. I am thinking on using it in the evening for my second workout, but I need to have things in order before I start. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Its same thing but faster peak.

After you have used it a bit and have all day to eat shoot 10iu every two hours. It is damn effective. Your entire body will feel tight after a couple days. Like an explosive but huge tight.

----------


## GearHeaded

UPDATE -
been a super busy holiday season. ready to get back to a normal schedule.

anyhow, I'm going to END this current experiment a week early.

I've been injecting on average 275mg of Test per DAY
I've been injecting on average 150-200mg of Tren per DAY and around 75mg per day of Mast.

And I've been on average sleeping ZERO hours per night. these super high dosages have me on edge and completely restless and now anxiety is kicking in with the lack of sleep.
The androgen levels are through the roof with this cycle.

if you think about a basic 500mg of Test and 400mg of deca cycle it has an Androgenic rating of around 700
my current cycle has an Androgenic rating of around 7,500 (thats WAY the hell up there).


so , what I'm hoping I've accomplished through doing this little super androgen experiment. 
I'm hoping my body took this very rapid onslaught of Androgens and 'super compensated' for it by drastically up regulating Androgen Receptor density and production.
Now this is NOT going to drastically change the appearance of my physique over night. This is an "investment" into my future physique. for all cycles I do in the future I will get more out of them, I will have more ability to put on more muscle and utilize AAS compounds more effectively.

the results I did get in just a couple weeks.. I got harder and leaner yet maintained the exact same weight, 211 pounds, all while eating anything I wanted (junk or clean over the holiday season). I also got damn strong in a very short time.


so now I'm going to cruise on like 500mg of test for a little while (or 200 test 300 primo) and then decide whats next. I'll probably do an Anti estrogen phase during this short cruise as well. Then I'll be running STENBOLONE. also plan on a 30 day period where I drop all insulin usage and utilze some IGF I have on the way and run that like I would the insulin. 

more experiments to come!

----------


## EDCG19

> UPDATE -
> been a super busy holiday season. ready to get back to a normal schedule.
> 
> anyhow, I'm going to END this current experiment a week early.
> 
> I've been injecting on average 275mg of Test per DAY
> I've been injecting on average 150-200mg of Tren per DAY and around 75mg per day of Mast.
> 
> And I've been on average sleeping ZERO hours per night. these super high dosages have me on edge and completely restless and now anxiety is kicking in with the lack of sleep.
> ...


What does your anxiety feel like?
Do you also get paranoia on these doses?

----------


## GearHeaded

> What does your anxiety feel like?
> Do you also get paranoia on these doses?


claustrophobia, restlessness, feeling smothered (like I can't breath), on edge, dissociation with reality (ie, uneasy about the fact I'm existing on a giant ball of dirt suspended in outer space spinning around at a thousand miles an hour). things like that

----------


## EDCG19

> claustrophobia, restlessness, feeling smothered (like I can't breath), on edge, dissociation with reality (ie, uneasy about the fact I'm existing on a giant ball of dirt suspended in outer space spinning around at a thousand miles an hour). things like that


What do you mean dissociation with reality? I thought I was the only one

Do you think its because of AAS use??

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

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## GearHeaded

> What do you mean dissociation with reality? I thought I was the only one
> 
> Do you think its because of AAS use??
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


I consider this side effect normal and to be expected for 'me'. it will subside in a week or so.
its the high levels of androgens . my androgen rating on this last blast was 7,500 (thats 15 times higher then a basic test only cycle). causing a strong over stimulation of the CNS (and don't forget we got tons of androgen receptors in the brain).
a similar type of thing can happen with other drugs or when coming down or going through withdrawal symptoms of alcohol even.

when on such a heavy androgen cycle the only time I feel 'normal' is when I'm in the gym.. the time I feel the most non normal is laying in bed trying to relax or go to sleep.. everything is just over stimulated.

its a temporary discomfort and simply part of the process (if your going to mess with high dosages). if you have awesome genetics and you can get by running very low dosages, then you may never experience the over stimultion sides that come with high dosages of AAS

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## charger69

> claustrophobia, restlessness, feeling smothered (like I can't breath), on edge, dissociation with reality (ie, uneasy about the fact I'm existing on a giant ball of dirt suspended in outer space spinning around at a thousand miles an hour). things like that


Sort of like tren . LOL


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## Charlie67

> .... (ie, uneasy about the fact I'm existing on a giant ball of dirt suspended in outer space spinning around at a thousand miles an hour)


Well, when thinking about things that might make you anxious, I must admit I didn't see that one coming, lol.

I'm running more gear than I've ever run in my life.... And I'm still only at a gram, so it's insignificant by many standards.... The only side effect I'm having is that anything even remotely emotional makes my eyes water. Commercials, movies, music... It's ridiculous and embarrassing.

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## charger69

> Well, when thinking about things that might make you anxious, I must admit I didn't see that one coming, lol.
> 
> I'm running more gear than I've ever run in my life.... And I'm still only at a gram, so it's insignificant by many standards.... The only side effect I'm having is that anything even remotely emotional makes my eyes water. Commercials, movies, music... It's ridiculous and embarrassing.


Estrogen my friend!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## EDCG19

> Well, when thinking about things that might make you anxious, I must admit I didn't see that one coming, lol.
> 
> I'm running more gear than I've ever run in my life.... And I'm still only at a gram, so it's insignificant by many standards.... The only side effect I'm having is that anything even remotely emotional makes my eyes water. Commercials, movies, music... It's ridiculous and embarrassing.


Yea, I've been there. Somehow I enjoy that experience and I find it good to know sometimes I still have emotions

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## Charlie67

> Estrogen my friend!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, that's my thinking too... I get blood work in about a week. I'm trying to let it run a little high to see what sides I might have. 

(Gearheaded, close your eyes for this brother  :Smilie: 
I'm not running nolva, only .25mg 3 x's wk of adex so my E should be high but not crazy. If being a bit emotional is the worst of it, the benefits may be worth it, I feel great!

For whatever reason, I've been reluctant to try running just Nolva to control sides, and letting my E get high.... It's probably just my history of always believing I must keep my E within normal blood range, it's been hard for me to let that idea go. I did try that last year, but to be honest, my diet sucked, my training sucked, and I didn't really give it a fair chance. When my bloodwork had my E in the 80's at only 500Test/wk, I gave in and started some Adex. 

This current cycle is a bit more thoughtful.

Side note: Why is Aromasin so freaking expensive? I'd rather run that than adex, but dang it's pricey.

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## Charlie67

> Yea, I've been there. Somehow I enjoy that experience and I find it good to know sometimes I still have emotions


I don't mind it when I'm alone.... I took my three daughters to a Christmas concert that had a children's choir singing this emotional version of this Christmas mashup, but then it blended into this rock anthem with full on marching band drum-lines and these crazy solos by these kids... My eyes watered like mad.

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## GearHeaded

UPDATE-
so I decided that switching over to cruising on trt dose of test for a few weeks is going to be quite boring. not much of an 'experiment' in doing that , we all know how that goes.
So I'm going to cruise on 350mg of Primo per week. will see how that maintains me and my current weight and physique (I'll either go no test at all, or just 100mg per week to maintain some test function)

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## kelkel

100 mgs per week.

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## Proximal

> claustrophobia, restlessness, feeling smothered (like I can't breath), on edge, dissociation with reality (ie, uneasy about the fact I'm existing on a giant ball of dirt suspended in outer space spinning around at a thousand miles an hour). things like that


I applaud the fact that you can even remotely get through the day & not freak out everyone around you. How do you do it?

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## GearHeaded

> 100 mgs per week.


yeah , well you probably think with my craziness that I'm either missing a few zeros here , or that I mean 100mg per hour. but yeah 100mg per week is all (or no test at all).

the reason I would go so low is to have a short phase with no estrogen or dht conversion. the primo is mainly just a pure anabolic so I don't need any test to hold on to muscle tissue. so this short cruise would be a 'clean out' phase where I go low estrogen and low androgens (I really don't need any test in there to give me estrogen or androgens at this point).

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## GearHeaded

> I applaud the fact that you can even remotely get through the day & not freak out everyone around you. How do you do it?


requires a lot of mental will power and focus.. but basically if I can occupy my mind with things that I'm passionate about (like if I'm in an intense training session or training a client) and stay busy with that then it doesn't bother me. the problem is when the day is over and its time to unwind and relax or go to sleep that the anxiety really ramps up (because I'm not occupied with other things)

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## Narkissos

I know I'm late to the party but:




> My current insulin and GH protocol 
> 10iu Novalin R upon waking - with 30g whey isolate and 30-40 carbs
> 10iu Novalin R preworkout - with my intra workout shake
> 15iu Novalin R post workout - 50g whey isolate and 50-70g carbs
> 
> Came off of HGH a few weeks ago. Taking MK677 25mg a night at the moment. YES I like to come off HGH on occasions and use either GHRPs or secretagogues to get natty pulses going for a time.


I fucking love this.

Also:



> T4 - 125mcg per day


I also love that you use t4. It's brilliant in a hypercaloric environment. Covers all your bases.

I'm planning a similar protocol. Humulin-R + Humulin-N (or lantus), t4, BPC-157 (if I can get ahold of it), metformin, DHEA, pregnenolone at base... other stuff as the year progresses.

Good log.

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## kelkel

Nark is shipping an issue for you with BPC-157?

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## Narkissos

> What about working out 3x day for a max of 30-40 minutes each. A different muscle group each session. Go in and kill the muscle. Limit the rest time. I was in my 20s and this routine is what started me growing. I would do it if I had time, just to see. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's how I trained for most of last year. 8-10 week cycles of 2-3 times per day... followed by 2 weeks of active rest.

Not gonna lie... it worked.

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## charger69

> the problem is when the day is over and its time to unwind and relax or go to sleep that the anxiety really ramps up (because I'm not occupied with other things)


I guess Ill have to have a chat with Mrs. GH. LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Narkissos

> Nark is shipping an issue for you with BPC-157?


Shipping is a problem for me, with all compounds.

Sad but true.  :Smilie:

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## GearHeaded

> I guess I’ll have to have a chat with Mrs. GH. LOL


I was on a gram of Tren .. please don't talk her into wanting to get my heart rate up and out of breath again

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## Narkissos

> if it wasn't for Insulin (endogenous) we wouldn't be able to build muscle. we could take all the tren in the world and still wouldn't build muscle without insulin. insulin is the 'key' that unlocks muscle cells and Fr allows them to receive glycogen, amino acids, nutrients, and everything else needed to build muscle.


Facts.
Exogenous use has application even whilst cutting.

Nutrient partitioning. Accelerated Ketosis (for those who subscribe that sort of dieting). More lean tissue retention (via better-timed nutrient partitioning, cortisol suppression, and igf-1 receptor stimulation).

Insulin has always been my top 3 favourite compounds.

Period.

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## GearHeaded

> Facts.
> Exogenous use has application even whilst cutting.
> 
> Nutrient partitioning. Accelerated Ketosis (for those who subscribe that sort of dieting). More lean tissue retention (via better-timed nutrient partitioning, cortisol suppression, and igf-1 receptor stimulation).
> 
> Insulin has always been my top 3 favourite compounds.
> 
> Period.


fasted cardio with 3iu of insulin, 10mg yohimbe, 2iu HGH (or 500mcg hgh-frag), has always been something I've promoted for fat loss (or modifications similar), and people seem to get confused as to why the insulin is in there for a fat loss protocol. well as you mention there are plenty of reasons

----------


## Narkissos

> Facts.
> Exogenous use has application even whilst cutting.
> 
> Nutrient partitioning. Accelerated Ketosis (for those who subscribe that sort of dieting). More lean tissue retention (via better-timed nutrient partitioning, cortisol suppression, *and igf-1 receptor stimulation*).
> 
> Insulin has always been my top 3 favourite compounds.
> 
> Period.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22420005

You can dig deeper into this. May affect/enhance the way you apply and stack peptides.

You're doing an awesome job as is though.
Great log.

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## GearHeaded

just to throw a couple more out there . increased conversion of T4 into T3 by the liver (i.e, increased metabolic rate), raising of free testosterone

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## Narkissos

> fasted cardio with 3iu of insulin, 10mg yohimbe, 2iu HGH (or 500mcg hgh-frag), has always been something I've promoted for fat loss (or modifications similar), and people seem to get confused as to why the insulin is in there for a fat loss protocol. well as you mention there are plenty of reasons


You are right.
Ignore my previous post.
You're ballsdeep in the underbelly of hormone manipulation.
I'm super-excited to see what else your logs bring. My brain is itching  :Big Grin:

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## Narkissos

> just to throw a couple more out there . increased conversion of T4 into T3 by the liver (i.e, increased metabolic rate), raising of free testosterone


Agreed... which is another reason I like that you stacked t4 in a hypercaloric state, coupled with exogenous insulin .

Also: insulin = reduced SHBG synthesis... So, gear has a bigger impact.

*brain itch*  :Smilie:

----------


## GearHeaded

Ok guys. so here is the plan for my "off cycle" cruise which will be starting up any day now as the Tren ace clears 

anti- estrogen phase (for 2 weeks only)
- Aromasin 15mg EOD
- Arimistane 50mg per day

AAS
- test e 100mg per week
- primobolan 350mg per week

Growth factors 
- Hexarelin 200mcg AM
- MK677 25mg before bed
- Insulin 15iu post workout

Anti Cortisol upon waking up in the AM
- 5-10iu insulin
- 10mg Tbol 


note: the reason I have an anti estrogen phase, which is great for someone before going into PCT, even though I don't pct and just 'crusie' is because I treat Estrogen like an anabolic . when I'm blasting I'm up regulating estrogen to high levels, just like I am androgens. but when I'm coming 'off' I want to down regulate estrogen (just like I'm down regulating my androgens).. if I'm coming "off" , then that means I need to come off of elevated estrogen levels too. again I treat estrogen like its an anabolic just like all the other anabolic hormones I run.

----------


## GearHeaded

I had originally planned on running Stenbolone at this point. but thats a new compound for me to try out, and I really want to run it when I'm more 'fresh' to give it a fair chance rather then running it at the tail end of a fairly heavy blast

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## kelkel

You think 10 mgs Tbol is enough for your purpose of blocking cortisol on it's own or is your thought process that it's a group effort?

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## GearHeaded

> You think 10 mgs Tbol is enough for your purpose of blocking cortisol on it's own or is your thought process that it's a group effort?


no not really. if I really wanted to block cortisol all together I'd probably forget 10mg of Tbol and be doing 50mg of Winstrol along side Cytradren. but that would be more a contest prep approach , and I'm really just coming off of things and 'cruising' and don't want to go to that level right now.

BUT, my wife is running Var now, and she has a bit of Tbol left over so I'm going to run that at 10mg every morning with the 5-10iu of Slin. and those two together should have a pretty good cortisol 'blunting' effect at least.
at this point, I'm more after 'anti catabolism' then I'm necessarily after anabolism (lack of sleep and some stress, so I'm sure cortisol is way up there right now).

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## kelkel

> BUT, my wife is running Var now, and she has a bit of Tbol left over so I'm going to run that at 10mg every morning with the 5-10iu of



Damn that line made me laugh. First thought was "she's not getting over on me, I'll one up her"!

----------


## GearHeaded

> Damn that line made me laugh. First thought was "she's not getting over on me, I'll one up her"!


lol . she will never out steroid dose me!

theres like 20 tbol pills left over from her cycle.. figured I'd just pop 10mg upon waking with the insulin , use them up (I can't have any left over steroids just sitting around)

----------


## GearHeaded

FYI guys .

just to show how slow going things can be even with aggressive protocols.. . I've only put on about 5 pounds since starting this log (I may be a bit leaner though).

However, I still expect some residual gains to keep coming from the things I have done during this log. its not like you run a cycle and then suddenly everything stops the minute you come off. the muscle building process takes a good 8+ weeks. things I did yesterday may not be actualized until sometime in February (ie, at the tissue building level at least)

I'll scratch and claw for every 5 pounds of muscle I can get though thats for sure

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## kelkel

> lol . she will never out steroid dose me!
> 
> theres like 20 tbol pills left over from her cycle..



Hopefully she's not counting....

----------


## GearHeaded

heres my current split 

1. Legs - quad dominant
2. Back (and traps) - row focus - biceps
3. Chest and shoulders - isolation focus
4. Arms
5. Legs - hamstring dominant
6. Chest - push focus 
7. Back (and traps) - pull down focus 
8. Arms
9. Touch up work - chest, lats, forearms 

9 Total workouts and then repeat.. rest days taken on occasion when needed. these workouts will get done in close to a weeks time as I do two a days a couple times a week (eg., workouts 3 and 4 may get done on the same day, as will 7 and 8).
Cardio - 4 times per week. 45-60 mins steady state on treadmill.

weak body parts I'm trying to bring up , biceps and chest. strong body parts I don't need a lot of focus on , shoulders and triceps (thats the reason for no dedicated shoulder day in this split)

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## charger69

> heres my current split 
> 
> 1. Legs - quad dominant
> 2. Back (and traps) - row focus - biceps
> 3. Chest and shoulders - isolation focus
> 4. Arms
> 5. Legs - hamstring dominant
> 6. Chest - push focus 
> 7. Back (and traps) - pull down focus 
> ...


Why not HIIT to cut down the time?
I used to do SS for the same amount of time 5 days per week and I found that I was slowing down the leg decelopement. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## GearHeaded

> Why not HIIT to cut down the time?
> I used to do SS for the same amount of time 5 days per week and I found that I was slowing down the leg decelopement.


that works for a lot of people .. for me though for whatever reason HIIT is very glycolytic (works great if I'm trying to get depleted though). when I do steady state cardio I stay lean without going so flat everywhere else.
so HIIT must put me in more of a calorie deficit and get my metabolism rolling a lot faster then SS does

plus, working in and owning a gym, I like to just do steady state as a time to check emails and things like that (where when I do HIIT or I weight train I can only focus on the training itself).

----------


## GearHeaded

heres what my leg day looked like yesterday

Belted squat machine 
3 sets 20 reps
add weight
3 sets 15 reps
add weight
3 sets 12 reps

smith machine front squats
6 sets 6 reps

leg extensions
5 sets 10 reps with isometric hold
3 sets 6 reps heavy 

standing hamstring curls
4 sets 20 reps

standing calve raises - 5 sets 25 reps
leg press calve raises - 5 sets 15 reps

----------


## KennyJ

> I consider this side effect normal and to be expected for 'me'. it will subside in a week or so.
> its the high levels of androgens . my androgen rating on this last blast was 7,500 (thats 15 times higher then a basic test only cycle). causing a strong over stimulation of the CNS (and don't forget we got tons of androgen receptors in the brain).
> a similar type of thing can happen with other drugs or when coming down or going through withdrawal symptoms of alcohol even.
> 
> when on such a heavy androgen cycle the only time I feel 'normal' is when I'm in the gym.. the time I feel the most non normal is laying in bed trying to relax or go to sleep.. everything is just over stimulated.
> 
> its a temporary discomfort and simply part of the process (if your going to mess with high dosages). if you have awesome genetics and you can get by running very low dosages, then you may never experience the over stimultion sides that come with high dosages of AAS


I’m only running Test but as you explained to me before that I’m in a hormonal flux from not running a cycle in years but I can relate to the fact that I feel normal in the gym, stamina is through the roof but out of the gym I haven’t felt normal in a while but it does seem to be subsiding as you said it would. I haven’t slept a full night in a while but it’s getting better. You helped me with my CNS just by explaining exactly how I felt and it’s getting better slowly. I really appreciate all of your posts. I just wish I could remember everything you post lol.

----------


## KennyJ

> I did when on high tren . Tren would have me on the high side. 
> I could feel it in the cardio. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Sorry GH Im definitely not trying to hijack your thread. 
Charger, do you ever take anything to thin your blood when running a compound that thickens it?
Anyone else who does, what do you take to thin your blood some?

----------


## GearHeaded

> Sorry GH I’m definitely not trying to hijack your thread. 
> Charger, do you ever take anything to thin your blood when running a compound that thickens it?
> Anyone else who does, what do you take to thin your blood some?


I don't take anything. increasing blood volume (or "thickness") is one of the anabolic benefits and attributes that come from taking things like Deca , Anadrol , Tren . you have more muscle building potential with more blood. you also have more work capacity potential. and the reason why bodybuilders in contest prep will take drugs like EPO to dramatically increase their blood thickness , is that these will show up in the physique as fuller, rounder, harder, and more vascular muscle.

so taking something to 'thin the blood' , when the whole benefit of some of these compounds is to actually 'thicken the blood' , is counter productive .. the answer is to simply not take these type of steroids in the first place if you don't want thicker blood (but in bodybuilding and some sports, the thicker blood is a big benefit and reason to take the drugs).

note: of course having 'thick blood' chronically months on end year after year is not healthy . taking time off these drugs and donating blood takes care of the issue for the most part and prevent "Chronic" high rbc and hematocrit

----------


## balance

> Sorry GH Im definitely not trying to hijack your thread. 
> Charger, do you ever take anything to thin your blood when running a compound that thickens it?
> Anyone else who does, what do you take to thin your blood some?


Besides donating I have read previously where people were experimenting with GSE (grapefruit seed extract) and seeing some noticeable decreases in hct. And no you cant just eat grapefruit as this would require something like 3-4 whole ones per day to reach effective goal. Also drinking plenty of water helps keep values down. Another thing worth mentioning if my understanding is correct the platelet count is something to really watch if the hct is fairly high. 


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## balance

> Why not HIIT to cut down the time?
> I used to do SS for the same amount of time 5 days per week and I found that I was slowing down the leg decelopement. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would also venture a guess that adding hiit on top of lifting that frequently would seriously add exponential strain on CNS. I know when I add hiit to the menu I have to add more full rest days. 

GH the way you fully raise and lower hormone levels to where they are modulated like on/off switches is this something ifbb pros generally employ?

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## charger69

> that works for a lot of people .. for me though for whatever reason HIIT is very glycolytic (works great if I'm trying to get depleted though). when I do steady state cardio I stay lean without going so flat everywhere else.
> so HIIT must put me in more of a calorie deficit and get my metabolism rolling a lot faster then SS does
> 
> plus, working in and owning a gym, I like to just do steady state as a time to check emails and things like that (where when I do HIIT or I weight train I can only focus on the training itself).


Lets define SS. My definition is a jog at about a 10 minute mile. It sounds like yours is a brisk walk.


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## charger69

> Sorry GH Im definitely not trying to hijack your thread. 
> Charger, do you ever take anything to thin your blood when running a compound that thickens it?
> Anyone else who does, what do you take to thin your blood some?


I would donate blood every thirty days. When my hematocrit would get high, I would know because my cardio would go to shit really fast. I would struggle with breathing. 


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## KennyJ

> Let’s define SS. My definition is a jog at about a 10 minute mile. It sounds like yours is a brisk walk.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Either way both of y'all are at least doing cardio. My cardio lately has been any walking at work and walking in and out of the gym lol

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## KennyJ

> I don't take anything. increasing blood volume (or "thickness") is one of the anabolic benefits and attributes that come from taking things like Deca , Anadrol , Tren . you have more muscle building potential with more blood. you also have more work capacity potential. and the reason why bodybuilders in contest prep will take drugs like EPO to dramatically increase their blood thickness , is that these will show up in the physique as fuller, rounder, harder, and more vascular muscle.
> 
> so taking something to 'thin the blood' , when the whole benefit of some of these compounds is to actually 'thicken the blood' , is counter productive .. the answer is to simply not take these type of steroids in the first place if you don't want thicker blood (but in bodybuilding and some sports, the thicker blood is a big benefit and reason to take the drugs).
> 
> note: of course having 'thick blood' chronically months on end year after year is not healthy . taking time off these drugs and donating blood takes care of the issue for the most part and prevent "Chronic" high rbc and hematocrit


Thanks GH, how much does running only test thicken the blood? That's the only thing I'm running and I've stayed below 900 mg per week. I have no idea how thick my blood is at the moment, I'm getting blood work done in about 2-3 weeks but was just curious.

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## KennyJ

> requires a lot of mental will power and focus.. but basically if I can occupy my mind with things that I'm passionate about (like if I'm in an intense training session or training a client) and stay busy with that then it doesn't bother me. the problem is when the day is over and its time to unwind and relax or go to sleep that the anxiety really ramps up (because I'm not occupied with other things)


GH, are all of your clients that you train aware that you know so much stuff. I hope they can appreciate that they are being coached by someone with extensive knowledge

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## GearHeaded

ok so here is what my back workout looked like today (with traps and some bi's)
Back thickness / row focused

hi to low cable rows wide neutral grip
3 sets 15 reps
6 sets 10 reps (this is relatively heavy, the stack + 45pound plate strapped on)
1 set 15 reps

seated cable rows close grip
6 sets 10 reps (very slow controlled contraction focus)

snatch grip rack pulls
3 sets 15 reps (light weight focused on contracting the upper back and traps)

barbell shrugs
3 sets 8 reps
Haney shrugs
3 sets 12 reps

face pulls
5 sets 20 reps

alternating dumbbell curls
4 sets 20 reps
alternating hammer curls
4 sets 26 reps
hammer curl
1 set 10 reps (fairly heavy 85 pound DB)
preacher curl machine
2 sets 20 reps

25 mins cardio..
about 2.5 hour session 


I'll start updating some of my diet on this log as well . yeah yeah I know, you guys want to hear about all the drugs  :Smilie:  but figured throwing in some of my training and diet may be beneficial during this "off cycle'' period . off cycle is no time to slack on diet and training !!

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## GearHeaded

> GH the way you fully raise and lower hormone levels to where they are modulated like on/off switches is this something ifbb pros generally employ?


yes . the idea of rapid hormone fluctuations and having 'blast' periods of max androgen phases, anti cortisol phases, anabolic phases etc. (using various PEDs to help accomplish these phases) is not something I came up with on my own (though I have my own ways of doing it).
I learned it originally from a guy that coached Olympia level pros back in the late 90s and 2000s

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## charger69

> ok so here is what my back workout looked like today (with traps and some bi's)
> Back thickness / row focused
> 
> hi to low cable rows wide neutral grip
> 3 sets 15 reps
> 6 sets 10 reps (this is relatively heavy, the stack + 45pound plate strapped on)
> 1 set 15 reps
> 
> seated cable rows close grip
> ...


I am going to contact the owner of the gym and tell him you are trying to ruin his equipment by strapping weights onto the cable weights. LOL
You do know the cable size is determined by the weights with the machine dont you?? LOL


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## GearHeaded

> I am going to contact the owner of the gym and tell him you are trying to ruin his equipment by strapping weights onto the cable weights. LOL
> You do know the cable size is determined by the weights with the machine don’t you?? LOL


lol , yeah I've had to replace the cables about 6 mos ago. my equipment repair guy told me not to be strapping plates to the stack. but I'm the one who pays the bill  :Smilie:  and that movement really hits my lower mid back and lower lats, so I'm going to keep doing it (just wish it had an over sized 400 pound stack on it)

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## Family_guy

> ok so here is what my back workout looked like today (with traps and some bi's)
> Back thickness / row focused
> 
> hi to low cable rows wide neutral grip
> 3 sets 15 reps
> 6 sets 10 reps (this is relatively heavy, the stack + 45pound plate strapped on)
> 1 set 15 reps
> 
> seated cable rows close grip
> ...


What exactly is a hi to low cable row?

----------


## Family_guy

> ok so here is what my back workout looked like today (with traps and some bi's)
> Back thickness / row focused
> 
> hi to low cable rows wide neutral grip
> 3 sets 15 reps
> 6 sets 10 reps (this is relatively heavy, the stack + 45pound plate strapped on)
> 1 set 15 reps
> 
> seated cable rows close grip
> ...


Holy shit man that’s 40 sets! That’s crazy.

Are you taking carbs intraworkout?

----------


## GearHeaded

> What exactly is a “hi to low cable row”?


a standard seated cable row (I,e, low row) is set up so that when you sit down and row your pulling the cable from a pulley that is below eye level.

a high to low cable row is the same movement but your pulling from a cable pulley that is above eye level. if you were to measure it out, its probably the angle split between a standard cable row and a lat pulldown

----------


## GearHeaded

> Holy shit man that’s 40 sets! That’s crazy.
> 
> Are you taking carbs intraworkout?


yeah its a 2 hour workout.. I take in intra workout nutrition, Carbs, elecotrolytes, essential amino acids, etc. during the workout.

keep in mind 40 sets sounds like a lot on paper. but its split between multiple muscles (not just one muscle). you've got traps, rhomboids, lats, rear delts, and biceps. its not like I'm doing 40 sets for just one muscle like biceps 

also, not all of my sets are max working sets. would be impossible to go to failure on 40 sets. I pick and choose my failure sets. non failure sets are generally an RIR of 3 with a strong focus on form and contraction and TUT
(imo, going to failure too often will limit your work capacity, time under tension, and total volume and thus ultimately muscle growth.. gotta pick and choose your battles)

----------


## Proximal

> strong focus on form and contraction and TUT


Really starting to utilize this with my shoulder workouts now. Im coming from a different direction though (joint preservation), but Im placing emphasis on every single rep (but not doing volume). Sloooow reps both concentrically & eccentrically and am experimenting with doing pauses through the ROM by doing brief isometric holds.

----------


## GearHeaded

> Really starting to utilize this with my shoulder workouts now. I’m coming from a different direction though (joint preservation), but I’m placing emphasis on every single rep (but not doing volume). Sloooow reps both concentrically & eccentrically and am experimenting with doing pauses through the ROM by doing brief isometric holds.


I focus a lot on these things as well . really try to get into the muscle and focus the tension on where it belongs, and off of the joint.
I've got -
4 back surgeries (and multiple rods, screws, brackets, holding my lower back together from the hips up)
reconstructive ankle surgery
reconstructive hand surgery
a separated collar bone that never got surgically repaired on one side (motorcycle accident)
a torn rotator on the other side (greatly hinders my chest pressing ability)
a bum neck with scar tissue needing repaired (motorcycle accident number 2)
etc

so I have to work around a lot of joint issues myself . thats why going balls to the walls with heavy compound or HIT training does not work for me.. my training has to be very precise and meticulous and the emphasis put directly on the muscle I'm trying to work and engage

----------


## Proximal

Darn right you have to work around some "issues". It will be enjoyable & educational hearing about your approach to training. 

By HIT, are you referring to the approach that you see in Marcus's thread? The drop in volume & the emphasis on the drop sets, rest/pauses & forced reps really agreed with my joints & am moving back in that direction.

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## charger69

> I focus a lot on these things as well . really try to get into the muscle and focus the tension on where it belongs, and off of the joint.
> I've got -
> 4 back surgeries (and multiple rods, screws, brackets, holding my lower back together from the hips up)
> reconstructive ankle surgery
> reconstructive hand surgery
> a separated collar bone that never got surgically repaired on one side (motorcycle accident)
> a torn rotator on the other side (greatly hinders my chest pressing ability)
> a bum neck with scar tissue needing repaired (motorcycle accident number 2)
> etc
> ...


Can we call you the six million dollar man?

We can rebuild him, we have the technology. We can make him faster and stronger. LOL

I hope your not too young to know what Im talking about. 


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## GearHeaded

> Darn right you have to work around some "issues". It will be enjoyable & educational hearing about your approach to training. 
> 
> By HIT, are you referring to the approach that you see in Marcus's thread? The drop in volume & the emphasis on the drop sets, rest/pauses & forced reps really agreed with my joints & am moving back in that direction.


I'm referring mainly to the 'intensity' part of HIT training , not the techniques employed (as I use many of the techniques). 
by dropping the volume and upping the intensity and lowering the time (like in HIT), I personally would have to push some pretty heavy weight , otherwise there is not enough stimulus there.

instead of over head pressing 205 lbs for 5 sets of strict form at 8 reps. I'd probably have to push 255 lbs very intensely with more lose form and only 1-2 working sets of failure.. I personally would rather go for the lighter weight 205 and more sets. OR I'd have to go beyond failure a lot more often, which compromises form and is going to inevitably put more stress on my joints and non specific tissues (ligaments, non targeting muscle etc.)
your risk of joint stress goes up significantly anytime you go beyond failure. I'm talking probably an 800+% more risk.

remember .. volume is .. *reps x sets x weight* . people forget to add the weight moved in their volume calculations and think its only reps and sets.
with the amount of volume that I personally am after, IF I did a shorter workout with more intensity (I,e HIT) then I would have to increase the weight substantially to try and hit my volume needs.

example .. 
bench press
8 sets at 10 reps x 225 pounds =. 18,000 lbs of volume

IF I wanted to reach this same amount of volume using a much higher intensity (but short time duration) then I'd have to up the weight big time

3 sets at 6 reps x 335 pounds = 6,030 lbs of volume

see , my weight went up significantly and so must my intensity to move it and no doubt I will put more stress on my joints . YET my volume is only a third of what it was in the first example. 

I can get much more work, more time under tension, better muscular contractions, more targeting focus on the muscle being worked, etc.. by NOT using heavier loads and high intensity.

note: by most peoples standards, I still move some pretty heavy weight. what I'm mainly talking about here is the 'intensity' factor. I have to pick and choose my battles when it comes to intensity. not every set and rep can be intense to a 10 on a scale of 1-10. especially for my situation and injuries

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## Proximal

> Can we call you the six million dollar man?
> 
> We can rebuild him, we have the technology. We can make him faster and stronger. LOL
> 
> I hope your not too young to know what Im talking about. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've started the process, those are my original hips. Hey, they're mine, figured I'd keep them.

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## kelkel

> what I'm mainly talking about here is the 'intensity' factor. I have to pick and choose my battles when it comes to intensity. not every set and rep can be intense to a 10 on a scale of 1-10.


Definitely how it is once you've been in the game a while.

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## Proximal

> I'm referring mainly to the 'intensity' part of HIT training , not the techniques employed (as I use many of the techniques). 
> by dropping the volume and upping the intensity and lowering the time (like in HIT), I personally would have to push some pretty heavy weight , otherwise there is not enough stimulus there.
> 
> instead of over head pressing 205 lbs for 5 sets of strict form at 8 reps. I'd probably have to push 255 lbs very intensely with more lose form and only 1-2 working sets of failure.. I personally would rather go for the lighter weight 205 and more sets. OR I'd have to go beyond failure a lot more often, which compromises form and is going to inevitably put more stress on my joints and non specific tissues (ligaments, non targeting muscle etc.)
> your risk of joint stress goes up significantly anytime you go beyond failure. I'm talking probably an 800+% more risk.
> 
> remember .. volume is .. *reps x sets x weight* . people forget to add the weight moved in their volume calculations and think its only reps and sets.
> with the amount of volume that I personally am after, IF I did a shorter workout with more intensity (I,e HIT) then I would have to increase the weight substantially to try and hit my volume needs.
> 
> ...


I understand your explanation of and your usage of volume.

My usage of volume in this instance is the quantity of repetitions & sets.

With respect to increasing the amount of stress on the joints based upon the increase in resistance, this might be more dependent upon the joint and the exercise. 

If you are discussing squats and you increase the weight, then you are definitely adding stress to what would be referred to as weight bearing joints such as the spine, hips, knees, ankles & feet. So if you were to squat heavier there, even if you dropped your sets & reps, those joints will have issues. Same with the shoulders, elbows & wrists for pressing motions. But, lateral raises or upright rows, if you keep your form pure & limit impingement by not approaching 70-80 degrees of elevation, Id be more concerned with the quantity of the sets and reps, causing damage.

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## charger69

> Definitely how it is once you've been in the game a while.


Or just age. LOL


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## charger69

You have promoted higher estrogen levels.
Do you feel there is any reason to worry about osteoporosis?

Also, I have been researching and I need help to understand.... you always make it understandable. I will give you my understanding and let you poke holes in it. 
We are interested in the free test levels. The test in a free state is what can interact with the receptors. The majority is bound to SHBG and albumin which prevents it from interacting. 
Proviron binds with SHBG at a much greater rate. Why dont you use proviron in your cycles?
The level of SHBG can be reduced by lowering estrogen and thyroid content which in turn heightens the anabolic /androgen level. 
On the contrary, estrogen plays an important role in the promotion of the anabolic state through glucose utilization and plays a role in the production of the growth hormone IGF-1. 
What is the balance?
DHT has also been shown to aid in the proliferation of androgen receptors. Is that why I have seen a lot of your mass gaining cycles contain DHT?


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## GearHeaded

Update - fastest way to lose weight.
begin a carb depletion phase coupled with some depletion style workouts and some diuretics.. then get the stomach flu so bad you're loosing it every 30 mins on both ends and having to sleep on the bathroom floor for a day and night.
ugh. so dehydrated it hurts my fingers to type.

not exactly how I was planning on going into this cruise phase

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## Obs

> Update - fastest way to lose weight.
> begin a carb depletion phase coupled with some depletion style workouts and some diuretics.. then get the stomach flu so bad you're loosing it every 30 mins on both ends and having to sleep on the bathroom floor for a day and night.
> ugh. so dehydrated it hurts my fingers to type.
> 
> not exactly how I was planning on going into this cruise phase


Get well sir!
Get your pedialyte and slin it back in.

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## kelkel

Damn GH. Sorry to hear this.

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## GearHeaded

> Get well sir!
> Get your pedialyte and slin it back in.



breakfast of champs right there

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## Obs

> breakfast of champs right there


Lol
Hell yes

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## charger69

> breakfast of champs right there


LMAO


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## GearHeaded

> You have promoted higher estrogen levels.
> Do you feel there is any reason to worry about osteoporosis?


well I also promote using lots of steroids and lots of weight training (which are both anti osteoporosis).
so I'm a bit confused where this question is coming from (note, some of the negative side effects found in men with elevated estrogen levels are in regards to men who do NOT have massively high amounts of androgens coming in .. so those would not really relate to me and my situation at all)





> Also, I have been researching and I need help to understand.... you always make it understandable. I will give you my understanding and let you poke holes in it. 
> We are interested in the free test levels. The test in a free state is what can interact with the receptors. The majority is bound to SHBG and albumin which prevents it from interacting. 
> Proviron binds with SHBG at a much greater rate. Why don’t you use proviron in your cycles?


the idea of lowering SHBG or displacing bound test from SHBG so it can become free test is something thats in my mind in most cycles that I design. especially cycles that are low dose test cycles. I simply choose not to use Proviron to accomplish this though.
you've probably noticed a ton of my cycles (or recommendations) will often times utilize Masteron in the stack (and if not then at least Var).

the reason I chose Mast over Proviron , is that Proviron is merely androgenic in nature (it has no anabolic properties). so you get a small benefit from the Proviron, but you get all those benefits PLUS anabolic benefits by running a Masteron or a Var instead . way way more bang for your buck using either of these (and proviron is not really cheap)





> The level of SHBG can be reduced by lowering estrogen and thyroid content which in turn heightens the anabolic/androgen level. 
> On the contrary, estrogen plays an important role in the promotion of the anabolic state through glucose utilization and plays a role in the production of the growth hormone IGF-1. 
> What is the balance?


to be bluntly honest here. I balance these things with drugs.
I can get my estrogen high AND my SHBG low at the same time with the proper use of drugs synergistically stacked..
eg.. 20mg Dbol in the AM, while on 300mg of test, 300mg of mast, and 50mg of Var, and no AI, all while running Insulin and T4.
I lower shbg, I displace bound up test into more free test, I increase estrogen and its anabolic factors (like increase in HGH and IGF), upregulate glucose metabolism with both the Dbol/elevated estrogen and the insulin use , etc etc. 




> DHT has also been shown to aid in the proliferation of androgen receptors. Is that why I have seen a lot of your mass gaining cycles contain DHT?


just to clarify .. DHT 'Derived' compounds in and of themselves are no longer really DHT and also can no longer convert to DHT... a lot of guys will refer to things like Var, Mast, Winstrol , etc. as "DHTs" , but this is a mistake . as these compounds cannot event covert to DHT.. of course they refer to them this way simply because they are DHT 'derived' .
but thats like referring to Dbol as "test" just because it was derived from Test.. I'd like to see someone run Dbol only for their "TRT".

so, if I would want 'actual DHT' itself increased while on cycle , then I would go to Test . as Test converts directly into DHT (the derivatives do not)

but I'm not a big fan of DHT itself. I am a fan of its derivatives though . the reason I don't care much for DHT is that it itself is NOT anabolic in muscle tissue. 

DHT is deactivated by 3-alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3HSD) in skeletal muscle tissue . 3HSD is an enzyme that is found in skeletal muscle that deactivates circulating DHT, rendering it inactive (non anabolic ) .
so DHT can't directly build muscle .

but what about DHT derivatives . things like VAR and Winny are "DHTs" per se .. SO.... since they already are 5-alpha reduced (made from DHT), they cannot be reduced further by 5-alpha reductase enzyme (which is what a DHT blocker does). also due to the presence of the oxygen atom in the A-ring (in the structure of these "dht" sreroids), these steroids are NOT deactivated by 3-alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3HSD) in skeletal muscle tissue either (so unlike DHT itself, they are very anabolic)

make sense ? DHT 'itself' can be deactivated by 3HSD and thus is not anabolic in muscle , whereas a dht derived steroid (5 alpha reduced) cannot be and is very anabolic in muscle.

thats why things like VAR are 3x more anabolic then test. reason is test can convert up to 20+% into DHT. and you lose 20% of your 'anabolism' right there (another 20% of test can be converted to estrogen) . where as with VAR it is a pure anabolic and 100% of its nature is anabolic. 

this is why you see a lot of "DHTs" in steroid stacks I advocate. mainly for their pure anabolic properties

----------


## GearHeaded

UPDATE -
when it rains it pours.. so I got over that nasty nasty stomach flu. diet has been a joke trying to bounce back from that (lets just say pounding tons of clean food isn't happening). that really drained me. THEN I have a freak accident at home and busted the hell out of my shoulder (the one thats been giving me fits with rotator issues and keeping me from bench pressing heavy the last year).. I've barely been able to dress myself in the morning let alone train. 
not the best start to a 'cruise phase' by any means at all . so I've been out of the gym for the longest I've been in quite awhile not training (of course I own the damn gym and work there and train clients, so yes I'm still there lol . I just haven't trained myself). I guess I'm going to have to focus on growing these legs right now with this damn shoulder issue.

its always something guys. thats life. you can't ever catch a break . just gotta find a way to work around all the bullshit that life throws at you

----------


## GearHeaded

oh forgot to mention though.. on that gram of tren and 2 grams of test I barely slept 2 hours per night. now I'm sleeping an easy 8 no problem (one perk of being on a cruise dose)

----------


## Old Duffer

> UPDATE -
> when it rains it pours.. so I got over that nasty nasty stomach flu. diet has been a joke trying to bounce back from that (lets just say pounding tons of clean food isn't happening). that really drained me. THEN I have a freak accident at home and busted the hell out of my shoulder (the one thats been giving me fits with rotator issues and keeping me from bench pressing heavy the last year).. I've barely been able to dress myself in the morning let alone train. 
> not the best start to a 'cruise phase' by any means at all . so I've been out of the gym for the longest I've been in quite awhile not training (of course I own the damn gym and work there and train clients, so yes I'm still there lol . I just haven't trained myself). I guess I'm going to have to focus on growing these legs right now with this damn shoulder issue.
> 
> its always something guys. thats life. you can't ever catch a break . just gotta find a way to work around all the bullshit that life throws at you


Sorry to hear that man. 

Anything I can do to help me win the competition.... I mean to help you, just drop a note 

:-)

----------


## GearHeaded

also because of my freak shoulder injury . my emergency protocol (from left over stock).. per day .. 5iu of HGH, 500mcg TB-500, 200mcg Hexarelin. unfortunately no BPC on hand

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## kelkel

> its always something guys. thats life. you can't ever catch a break . just gotta find a way to work around all the bullshit that life throws at you



Truth.

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## balance

> also because of my freak shoulder injury . my emergency protocol (from left over stock).. per day .. 5iu of HGH, 500mcg TB-500, 200mcg Hexarelin. unfortunately no BPC on hand


Have you used BPC before? If so how did it do, how did you administer it subq? Also same questions on the TB500?

----------


## GearHeaded

> Have you used BPC before? If so how did it do, how did you administer it subq? Also same questions on the TB500?


yes I generally utilize BPC and TB500 together.. 250mcg of BPC daily with 500mcg of TB injected IM near the site of injury for about 4 weeks.
totally person dependent though and lots of different dosages and protocols guys have tried out.

----------


## KennyJ

> UPDATE -
> when it rains it pours.. so I got over that nasty nasty stomach flu. diet has been a joke trying to bounce back from that (lets just say pounding tons of clean food isn't happening). that really drained me. THEN I have a freak accident at home and busted the hell out of my shoulder (the one thats been giving me fits with rotator issues and keeping me from bench pressing heavy the last year).. I've barely been able to dress myself in the morning let alone train. 
> not the best start to a 'cruise phase' by any means at all . so I've been out of the gym for the longest I've been in quite awhile not training (of course I own the damn gym and work there and train clients, so yes I'm still there lol . I just haven't trained myself). I guess I'm going to have to focus on growing these legs right now with this damn shoulder issue.
> 
> its always something guys. thats life. you can't ever catch a break . just gotta find a way to work around all the bullshit that life throws at you


Sorry to hear about this. I can definitely relate to "it's always something and when it rains it pours". My sister passed away this past year and even without that it's been a seemingly never ending problems type of year.

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## Family_guy

> also because of my freak shoulder injury . my emergency protocol (from left over stock).. per day .. 5iu of HGH, 500mcg TB-500, 200mcg Hexarelin. unfortunately no BPC on hand


I assume this is for healing injuries right? 

Whats tb-500?

----------


## GearHeaded

> I assume this is for healing injuries right? 
> 
> What’s tb-500?


yes thats it . otherwise I would't be running them at this point (well the hgh stuff gets cycled in and out all the time)

tb500 is a naturally occurring protein based peptide that promotes healing. Thymosin beta-4 is its technical/medical name.. by natural occurring I mean the body produces it on its own (just like HGH) to help the healing process

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## kelkel

> I assume this is for healing injuries right? 
> 
> What’s tb-500?



Here's a couple interesting write up's on them:

https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/art...to-use-tb-500/

https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/art...o-use-bpc-157/

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## Family_guy

> Here's a couple interesting write up's on them:
> 
> https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/art...to-use-tb-500/
> 
> https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/art...o-use-bpc-157/


Thanks that’s very interesting stuff.

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## Family_guy

So they’re both totally legal too right? I was reading those articles and they sound pretty amazing. Especially tb 500

----------


## kelkel

> So they’re both totally legal too right? I was reading those articles and they sound pretty amazing. Especially tb 500



Yes, legit. You can find supporting studies on PubMed for both substances.

----------


## GearHeaded

OPINIONS wanted--

ok guys I'm a little laid up with this nagging shoulder. but I'm still going to work around it. so want your opinions. do I focus on cutting and attempting to get super shredded , or do I focus on massing and just trying to get as much size as I can right now ?

I haven't really cut in forever it seems like. I know if I was a lot leaner I'd have a lot more details, especially in my back. but I'm not near big as I'd like to be either.

heres some pics .

if I was about 5% leaner here my back would be a lot more detailed

however I still want to get a lot wider, thicker, and fuller 

abs and chest need some work. but would still be more pronounced if I was leaner. however, I still need MORE size damnit 


this is "cold" without a pump (which really gives the best idea of how your holding body fat and water). I'm pretty 'smooth' and soft here.. could easily be a lot leaner. but then again, a lot more size needed too lol

----------


## Obs

> OPINIONS wanted--
> 
> ok guys I'm a little laid up with this nagging shoulder. but I'm still going to work around it. so want your opinions. do I focus on cutting and attempting to get super shredded , or do I focus on massing and just trying to get as much size as I can right now ?
> 
> I haven't really cut in forever it seems like. I know if I was a lot leaner I'd have a lot more details, especially in my back. but I'm not near big as I'd like to be either.
> 
> heres some pics .
> 
> if I was about 5% leaner here my back would be a lot more detailed
> ...


I cant remember what class you are shooting for

----------


## Obs

forIf you want fuller though I would just bulk bulk bulk

----------


## GearHeaded

> I cant remember what class you are shooting for


classic physique, under 197 pound class (as with my height I would have to weigh under 197 in order to make weight, which would not be a problem for me at all right now .. just the opposite. I'm 212 when carb loaded. I actually need to be about 220 or so then cut down to the 197 pound class . so I really could use a lot more size).

however, BIG Picture goal , I have no real desire for ever competing regularly. I was just going to do one classic show just for the challenge of getting contest ready and lean. the main goal is just to get as big jacked and lean of a gym rat as I can be. 

with the last few years having had 4 surgeries, major injuries, being bed ridden for a year, car accidents, legal problems , etc. etc.. just putting back on some muscle right now is an accomplishment (let alone ever getting on a stage).


I guess I have yet to discover the magic steroid or the secret stack that will get me huge and lean at the same time . ok, I'm off to keep researching for that then I guess. if I find the secret sauce, I'll be sure to let you guys all know about it  :Smilie:

----------


## GearHeaded

> forIf you want fuller though I would just bulk bulk bulk


well I need to give your insulin every 2 hour protocol a try if I go for the bulk

----------


## fiddlesticks

> OPINIONS wanted--
> 
> ok guys I'm a little laid up with this nagging shoulder. but I'm still going to work around it. so want your opinions. do I focus on cutting and attempting to get super shredded , or do I focus on massing and just trying to get as much size as I can right now ?
> 
> I haven't really cut in forever it seems like. I know if I was a lot leaner I'd have a lot more details, especially in my back. but I'm not near big as I'd like to be either.
> 
> heres some pics .
> 
> if I was about 5% leaner here my back would be a lot more detailed
> ...


Run inject SD w me ! Gains will fucking be had

----------


## Obs

> well I need to give your insulin every 2 hour protocol a try if I go for the bulk


You could probably do it every 3 hours with novolin R or humulin R. 
Honestly have never gone more than two days with it straight. Its damn hard to find the time to constantly eat and shoot 8 times in a day with novolog. 

The third day though i woke up feeling like I could tear muscle fibres from a cold flex

----------


## almostgone

> UPDATE -
> when it rains it pours.. so I got over that nasty nasty stomach flu. diet has been a joke trying to bounce back from that (lets just say pounding tons of clean food isn't happening). that really drained me. THEN I have a freak accident at home and busted the hell out of my shoulder (the one thats been giving me fits with rotator issues and keeping me from bench pressing heavy the last year).. I've barely been able to dress myself in the morning let alone train. 
> not the best start to a 'cruise phase' by any means at all . so I've been out of the gym for the longest I've been in quite awhile not training (of course I own the damn gym and work there and train clients, so yes I'm still there lol . I just haven't trained myself). I guess I'm going to have to focus on growing these legs right now with this damn shoulder issue.
> 
> its always something guys. thats life. you can't ever catch a break . just gotta find a way to work around all the bullshit that life throws at you


Extremely wicked stomach bug going around here in SC. It ranges from sulfur burps, massive bloating, basically pissing out.your @ss, and moderate nausea, then the cycle begins again, which totally wrecks your beneficial gut bacteria. I had to go through a double round of Cipro (which I am very leery of), and began adding in FF plain Chobani yogurt with blueberries or blackberries 2x/day. Lots of Pedialyte, water, and hamburger and rice followed by a symphony of butt trumpets. It's a good 7-12 day ride of nasty.

----------


## Obs

> Extremely wicked stomach bug going around here in SC. It ranges from sulfur burps, massive bloating, basically pissing out.your @ss, and moderate nausea, when the cycle begins again, which totally wrecks your beneficial gut bacteria. I had to go through a double round of Cipro (which I am very leery of), and began adding in FF plain Chobani yogurt with blueberries or blackberries 2x/day. Lots of Pedialyte, water, and hamburger and rice followed by a symphony of butt trumpets. It's a good 7-12 day ride of nasty.


Damn.... Wish I had read this before I ate at a buffet

----------


## almostgone

> classic physique, under 197 pound class (as with my height I would have to weigh under 197 in order to make weight, which would not be a problem for me at all right now .. just the opposite. I'm 212 when carb loaded. I actually need to be about 220 or so then cut down to the 197 pound class . so I really could use a lot more size).
> 
> however, BIG Picture goal , I have no real desire for ever competing regularly. I was just going to do one classic show just for the challenge of getting contest ready and lean. the main goal is just to get as big jacked and lean of a gym rat as I can be. 
> 
> with the last few years having had 4 surgeries, major injuries, being bed ridden for a year, car accidents, legal problems , etc. etc.. just putting back on some muscle right now is an accomplishment (let alone ever getting on a stage).
> 
> 
> I guess I have yet to discover the magic steroid or the secret stack that will get me huge and lean at the same time . ok, I'm off to keep researching for that then I guess. if I find the secret sauce, I'll be sure to let you guys all know about it



Personally, with what you have going on now, I would look to the next show instead of the one you have planned now. You want to give it 100%+ and look like that, right? 
Eat, kill the lower body and get the upper body back into working condition and build on that. 

Conservative approach I know, but that's what I would do in this case. Got to keep yourself in one piece for the biz too....you probably work for a real motherf*cker, right?

If.you were in better shape, I'd say to tell the world to bend over because here it comes, but as it stands...well, it's your call.

----------


## almostgone

> Damn.... Wish I had read this before I ate at a buffet


Anytime I can help Obs...you know that!!

Edit: I even tried to eat a piece of stuffed pizza to see what would happen. It is well outside my usual food choice, but I needed something to stick...and it didn't. 

Not to get too descriptive, but the results of that experiment would have fit through a skeleton keyhole at 5 meters without ever touching the sides of the lock. 

It's basically a really brutal stomach bug. I got sent to medical at work because I looked more like hammered shit than normal.  :Frown:

----------


## Obs

> Anytime I can help Obs...you know that!!
> 
> Edit: I even tried to eat a piece of stuffed pizza to see what would happen. It is well outside my usual food choice, but I needed something to stick...and it didn't. 
> 
> Not to get too descriptive, but the results of that experiment would have fit through a skeleton keyhole at 5 meters without ever touching the sides of the lock. 
> 
> It's basically a really brutal stomach bug. I got sent to medical at work because I looked more like hammered shit than normal.


Lol! That sucks man

----------


## Family_guy

> OPINIONS wanted--
> 
> ok guys I'm a little laid up with this nagging shoulder. but I'm still going to work around it. so want your opinions. do I focus on cutting and attempting to get super shredded , or do I focus on massing and just trying to get as much size as I can right now ?
> 
> I haven't really cut in forever it seems like. I know if I was a lot leaner I'd have a lot more details, especially in my back. but I'm not near big as I'd like to be either.
> 
> heres some pics .
> 
> if I was about 5% leaner here my back would be a lot more detailed
> ...


Go for the mini cut. You will never be as big as you want to be. None of us probably will. So I feel like if we are always just trying to be as big as we want to be before we cut then we will never cut. That’s my 2 cents

----------


## fiddlesticks

> You could probably do it every 3 hours with novolin R or humulin R. 
> Honestly have never gone more than two days with it straight. Its damn hard to find the time to constantly eat and shoot 8 times in a day with novolog. 
> 
> The third day though i woke up feeling like I could tear muscle fibres from a cold flex


You gotta write a post about this it sounds extremely interesting.

----------


## GearHeaded

ok so far I got 

1 vote to bulk
1 vote to cut
1 vote to be conservative and 'slow and steady' approach (I'll consider that as a "re-comp")

so we are tied between bulk, cut, recomp

----------


## GearHeaded

> You gotta write a post about this it sounds extremely interesting.


I think as many members as we have running insulin now (when I first joined here I was a rarity on this topic), we should start an "insulin chronicles" thread. where we all share our current protocols and experiences .

in fact I'll go ahead and start that now

----------


## fiddlesticks

> I think as many members as we have running insulin now (when I first joined here I was a rarity on this topic), we should start an "insulin chronicles" thread. where we all share our current protocols and experiences .
> 
> in fact I'll go ahead and start that now


Sounds about fucking right!

----------


## KennyJ

> ok so far I got 
> 
> 1 vote to bulk
> 1 vote to cut
> 1 vote to be conservative and 'slow and steady' approach (I'll consider that as a "re-comp")
> 
> so we are tied between bulk, cut, recomp


I say do which ever of the 3 makes you feel better mentally.

----------


## Obs

> ok so far I got 
> 
> 1 vote to bulk
> 1 vote to cut
> 1 vote to be conservative and 'slow and steady' approach (I'll consider that as a "re-comp")
> 
> so we are tied between bulk, cut, recomp


Slow and... St...st...stea..dy? 

What is that?

----------


## KennyJ

I'm at 28% body fat and I'm gaining weight on purpose but then again I'm an idiot and have never done anything the conventional way lol. When I'm comfortable with my strength I'll worry about cutting the fat later which is probably recommended by no one

----------


## GearHeaded

> I'm at 28% body fat and I'm gaining weight on purpose but then again I'm an idiot and have never done anything the conventional way lol. When I'm comfortable with my strength I'll worry about cutting the fat later which is probably recommended by no one


well according to your avi pic, you hold most of your fat in your chest . I wouldn't worry about cutting that out  :Wink:

----------


## KennyJ

> well according to your avi pic, you hold most of your fat in your chest . I wouldn't worry about cutting that out


Good one. Actually made me laugh out loud.
I don't know her but I think I love her!

----------


## Proximal

> well according to your avi pic, you hold most of your fat in your chest . I wouldn't worry about cutting that out


Id concur with that. Kenny, dont want to freak you out, but dude, nice rack.

----------


## Obs

Haaaa!

She does have nice knockers

----------


## KennyJ

> Haaaa!
> 
> She does have nice knockers


She resembles a stripper I used to live with but I can't get girls like that anymore!

----------


## Proximal

I myself like chicks with calves that extend wider than their hips.

----------


## KennyJ

No one will probably believe it but there's a picture floating around somewhere of me on a bed with 5 naked women and no other men. Many years ago though

----------


## Charlie67

> so we are tied between bulk, cut, recomp


Who am I?
How big is this universe?
Can happiness exist without sadness?
What is my true identity?
What's really valuable?
How can my life be meaningful?
What came first, the chicken or the egg?
High carb? Low carb? No carb?
Should I bulk, cut, or recomp?

..... life is one unanswerable question after another.


((FWIW, bulk... Because pancakes are F'ing awesome and most times we have to wear a shirt))

----------


## GearHeaded

> Who am I?
> How big is this universe?
> Can happiness exist without sadness?
> What is my true identity?
> What's really valuable?
> How can my life be meaningful?
> What came first, the chicken or the egg?
> High carb? Low carb? No carb?
> Should I bulk, cut, or recomp?
> ...


you forgot , why the hell are we all stuck on a giant ball of dirt spinning around at thousands of miles per hour all while being suspended by nothingness ?

hmm.. maybe so I can be here and eat pancakes and bulk I suppose  :Smilie:

----------


## Charlie67

> you forgot , why the hell are we all stuck on a giant ball of dirt spinning around at thousands of miles per hour all while being suspended by nothingness ?
> 
> hmm.. maybe so I can be here and eat pancakes and bulk I suppose


Darn it..... I can't believe I forgot that one!  :Smilie:

----------


## KennyJ

> you forgot , why the hell are we all stuck on a giant ball of dirt spinning around at thousands of miles per hour all while being suspended by nothingness ?
> 
> hmm.. maybe so I can be here and eat pancakes and bulk I suppose


Someone said last week our sun is like an old Toyota Tercel, Kinda crappy but lasts forever.

----------


## GearHeaded

> Someone said last week our sun is like an old Toyota Tercel, Kinda crappy but lasts forever.


yes , but the real deep question is "does it really last forever"  :Smilie:

----------


## Obs

> I myself like chicks with calves that extend wider than their hips.


I am trying to picture 30 inch calves on my gf....

----------


## Family_guy

> Good one. Actually made me laugh out loud.
> I don't know her but I think I love her!


Every time I see her she reminds me of Natalie Portman except with huge fake boobs! I have a huge crush on Natalie Portman...

----------


## Family_guy

> I myself like chicks with calves that extend wider than their hips.


To be honest that sounds pretty gross dude

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

Fuck the cut. #PERMABULK




> ok so far I got 
> 
> 1 vote to bulk
> 1 vote to cut
> 1 vote to be conservative and 'slow and steady' approach (I'll consider that as a "re-comp")
> 
> so we are tied between bulk, cut, recomp

----------


## Obs

> classic physique, under 197 pound class (as with my height I would have to weigh under 197 in order to make weight, which would not be a problem for me at all right now .. just the opposite. I'm 212 when carb loaded. I actually need to be about 220 or so then cut down to the 197 pound class . so I really could use a lot more size).
> 
> however, BIG Picture goal , I have no real desire for ever competing regularly. I was just going to do one classic show just for the challenge of getting contest ready and lean. the main goal is just to get as big jacked and lean of a gym rat as I can be. 
> 
> with the last few years having had 4 surgeries, major injuries, being bed ridden for a year, car accidents, legal problems , etc. etc.. just putting back on some muscle right now is an accomplishment (let alone ever getting on a stage).
> 
> 
> I guess I have yet to discover the magic steroid or the secret stack that will get me huge and lean at the same time . ok, I'm off to keep researching for that then I guess. if I find the secret sauce, I'll be sure to let you guys all know about it


Tren for a year with random compounds rotated through works somewhat. 
Who has a year though

----------


## GearHeaded

> Tren for a year with random compounds rotated through works somewhat. 
> Who has a year though


well I was thinking about lowering my dose of test big time, like 100mg a week, but then running 15mg a day of tren ace with it and using that combo as my TRT. so may end up being year round .

of course I say that , but I don't really think I'd be on a "trt" dose of anything longer then a few weeks

----------


## Obs

> well I was thinking about lowering my dose of test big time, like 100mg a week, but then running 15mg a day of tren ace with it and using that combo as my TRT. so may end up being year round .
> 
> of course I say that , but I don't really think I'd be on a "trt" dose of anything longer then a few weeks


Even just 150mg makes me burn fat

----------


## Proximal

> To be honest that sounds pretty gross dude


Narrow hips, very tight & high glutes, solid thighs, but killer calves.

----------


## Obs

> Narrow hips, very tight & high glutes, solid thighs, but killer calves.


Attachment 175557

----------


## KennyJ

> Attachment 175557


That's child bearing hips if I've ever seen them jeeeeez

----------


## Proximal

> Attachment 175557


Yep, just like that, lol.

----------


## balance

Considering where you are currently and what you mentioned about the classic physique 197 class its a really tough call. While I get the bulk now mentality to gain the shear mass/volume the issue really comes down to how severe your shoulder issue is. While bulking now and focusing on the lowerbody (to allow shoulder to heal) seams logical there is something to consider proportion wise. How much work (bulking) do you want to gain on the wheels. Cause if your not really wanting the mass down there its hard to be truly into it (dedicated). Furthermore could adding more to lower body detract from overall proportions you are going for? 

Either way you ultimately decide I would likely only swing 5-7 lbs and reassess things (especially if your shoulder is feeling better). Maybe run genuinely low doses (heard that once on forum from really knowledgeable guy, let receptors reset so to speak, lol). Sometimes just coasting is not such a bad thing especially when working around something. I know thats not the mentality most here would prescribe to but its a journey not an Uber ride. 

You didnt elaborate how bad your shoulder is? Have you dealt with similar before? About how long to be fairly good?

----------


## GearHeaded

> How much work (bulking) do you want to gain on the wheels. Cause if your not really wanting the mass down there it’s hard to be truly into it (dedicated). Furthermore could adding more to lower body detract from overall proportions you are going for?


well I could probably add a good inch or more to these calves of mine



and my quads are under sized due to my 4 back surgeries and the screws, rods, etc. holding my lower back together from the hip bones up. Haven't been able to squat in years. but I'll figure out something to make them grow. unless I just did a men's physique show and wear the board shorts and cover them up

----------


## GearHeaded

> You didn’t elaborate how bad your shoulder is? Have you dealt with similar before? About how long to be fairly good?


I have not trained in 2 weeks. tomorrow will be my first day back at it since the stomach flu and shoulder injury. so we'll see how it feels. its still fairly jacked up and painful, but I've worked around pain before. I'll just need to see if I can push through enough to at least get a ok chest pump/session done. shoulder will effect chest movements the most

also part of the reason I thought about cutting was just simply because with the shoulder I know I won't be able to push heavy weight and intensity and that will make it hard to progressively overload and grow. with a cut I'll just try to maintain what I have and stick to higher rep sets

----------


## Obs

> well I could probably add a good inch or more to these calves of mine
> 
> 
> 
> and my quads are under sized due to my 4 back surgeries and the screws, rods, etc. holding my lower back together from the hip bones up. Haven't been able to squat in years. but I'll figure out something to make them grow. unless I just did a men's physique show and wear the board shorts and cover them up


Lmmfao shuddup braggart!

----------


## Obs

Gd gh...
My calves look like a long distance runners without a pump. You are in the top .1 %

----------


## GearHeaded

> Gd gh...
> My calves look like a long distance runners without a pump. You are in the top .1 %


guess I need to shoot a pic of them with a pump then  :Wink:

----------


## Obs

> guess I need to shoot a pic of them with a pump then


Lmao!
Now that I know what it takes to build calves, I cant call you genetically lucky. 

Damn fine work sir.

----------


## Chrisp83TRT

> well I could probably add a good inch or more to these calves of mine
> 
> 
> 
> and my quads are under sized due to my 4 back surgeries and the screws, rods, etc. holding my lower back together from the hip bones up. Haven't been able to squat in years. but I'll figure out something to make them grow. unless I just did a men's physique show and wear the board shorts and cover them up


What happened to your back gear ... If you don't mind me asking 

Sent from my JSN-AL00 using Tapatalk

----------


## Obs

> What happened to your back gear ... If you don't mind me asking 
> 
> Sent from my JSN-AL00 using Tapatalk


Lmao

----------


## KennyJ

Ok, so what I figure. Cycle till I'm 70 and I can look like GH and Obs. Oh yea thats right you can't look like that when you're 70. Damn I'm SOL!

----------


## GearHeaded

> What happened to your back gear ... If you don't mind me asking


blew it out years back lifting a heavy ass compressor out of my truck. the surgery then fixed me up for a little while.

then blew out a few discs doing heavy barbell shrugs setting the weight back into the rack.

then golf (yes fucking golf). IF you bench over 300 pounds, run drugs that make you strong as hell like Tren , and drive a golf ball 400 yards with an extremely aggressive and angry and violent golf swing,, you probably shouldn't even be playing golf. its really not a juice heads game.
so yeah, I blew the hell out of my back playing golf.

then shortly after that third surgery I rolled over in my sleep one night and two discs that were operated on basically blew apart into my spine. That become an emergency surgery situation and they basically just cut everything out of the lower back and put me together from the hip up a ways with 6 construction sized screws, a couple of rods, 6 lug nuts, some artificial bones as spacers, and a cage around my spine.

still recovering from this last surgery . but my last doc visit and X-rays showed I was about 80% there. so just hope that all that hardware holds up

I don't deadlift anymore though.. as I fear having a 6" long screw fly out of my lower back while heaving up the weight  :Smilie:

----------


## Obs

> blew it out years back lifting a heavy ass compressor out of my truck. the surgery then fixed me up for a little while.
> 
> then blew out a few discs doing heavy barbell shrugs setting the weight back into the rack.
> 
> then golf (yes fucking golf). IF you bench over 300 pounds, run drugs that make you strong as hell like Tren , and drive a golf ball 400 yards with an extremely aggressive and angry and violent golf swing,, you probably shouldn't even be playing golf. its really not a juice heads game.
> so yeah, I blew the hell out of my back playing golf.
> 
> then shortly after that third surgery I rolled over in my sleep one night and two discs that were operated on basically blew apart into my spine. That become an emergency surgery situation and they basically just cut everything out of the lower back and put me together from the hip up a ways with 6 construction sized screws, a couple of rods, 6 lug nuts, some artificial bones as spacers, and a cage around my spine.
> 
> ...


He was teferring to your calves. It was a compliment

----------


## Obs

Dumbass with big calves

----------


## Obs

I am laughing till I choke,drunk as shit

----------


## Chrisp83TRT

> blew it out years back lifting a heavy ass compressor out of my truck. the surgery then fixed me up for a little while.
> 
> then blew out a few discs doing heavy barbell shrugs setting the weight back into the rack.
> 
> then golf (yes fucking golf). IF you bench over 300 pounds, run drugs that make you strong as hell like Tren , and drive a golf ball 400 yards with an extremely aggressive and angry and violent golf swing,, you probably shouldn't even be playing golf. its really not a juice heads game.
> so yeah, I blew the hell out of my back playing golf.
> 
> then shortly after that third surgery I rolled over in my sleep one night and two discs that were operated on basically blew apart into my spine. That become an emergency surgery situation and they basically just cut everything out of the lower back and put me together from the hip up a ways with 6 construction sized screws, a couple of rods, 6 lug nuts, some artificial bones as spacers, and a cage around my spine.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear all this happened to you bro . 

Sadly tragic accidents happen during the most silly of things .

People can get hit by a car and break a leg yet a dude can trip on a tree branch of ultimately lose his life.

I hate to sound like a pussy but it's another reason I stay away from heavy heavy weights. So much room for injury. 

Like you said in another thread volume and tension with your muscle is your bread and butter. Heavy isn't always what puts in gains .

Glad you are doing better though bro 

Sent from my JSN-AL00 using Tapatalk

----------


## Chrisp83TRT

> I am laughing till I choke,drunk as shit


Haha you laughing so hard your calves may cramp . Be careful  :Wink:  

Sent from my JSN-AL00 using Tapatalk

----------


## GearHeaded

> Sorry to hear all this happened to you bro . 
> 
> Sadly tragic accidents happen during the most silly of things .


this is true. heck in between these back surgeries a few years ago when I was doing ok and getting back on track I had a freak accident involving a knife and the tendons in my hand got sliced and ended up unraveling down into my palm and wrist. had to have an emergency reconstructive hand surgery that left me in a cast and sling for months and then months worth of therapy . lots of time lost out of the gym AGAIN.

thats been my luck the last few years. heck if it wasn't for all these set backs time and time again, I'd be giving Big Ramy a run for his money right about now  :Wink:  well, maybe I'd just be about 20 pounds more muscular idk lol

----------


## KennyJ

> this is true. heck in between these back surgeries a few years ago when I was doing ok and getting back on track I had a freak accident involving a knife and the tendons in my hand got sliced and ended up unraveling down into my palm and wrist. had to have an emergency reconstructive hand surgery that left me in a cast and sling for months and then months worth of therapy . lots of time lost out of the gym AGAIN.
> 
> thats been my luck the last few years. heck if it wasn't for all these set backs time and time again, I'd be giving Big Ramy a run for his money right about now  well, maybe I'd just be about 20 pounds more muscular idk lol


Sorry to hear about this too. Sound like you're just about back at it though. It'll get better

----------


## kelkel

> No one will probably believe it but there's a picture floating around somewhere of me on a bed with 5 naked women and no other men.



Is there normally other men?

----------


## kelkel

> OPINIONS wanted--
> 
> ok guys I'm a little laid up with this nagging shoulder. but I'm still going to work around it. so want your opinions. do I focus on cutting and attempting to get super shredded , or do I focus on massing and just trying to get as much size as I can right now ?
> 
> I haven't really cut in forever it seems like. I know if I was a lot leaner I'd have a lot more details, especially in my back. but I'm not near big as I'd like to be either.
> 
> heres some pics .
> 
> if I was about 5% leaner here my back would be a lot more detailed
> ...



Split the difference.

----------


## kelkel

> I am trying to picture 30 inch calves on my gf....



Want me to stop over?

----------


## charger69

> Want me to stop over?


Dont make me jealous, Kelkel! LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## KennyJ

> Is there normally other men?


LOL ok you got me, but no, never. I'm lucky to get one woman now days

----------


## GearHeaded

so heres the plan . I don't know why I even considered cutting. I really need a lot more muscle (shit I'm still trying to get muscle back I lost from all my surgeries the last couple years), and other then a short mini cut, doing an actual focused cut will really do nothing for my goal of putting on more size overall.

So.. during my cruise phase, being off cycle right now. and with my shoulder issue. I'm going to run a bunch of insulin (every couple hours), some HGH (or combo that with GH and peptides), and some IGF1. the goal here will be to consume a shit ton of carbs and mainly do a lot of high volume 20 rep type sets in the gym.
I'll just see if I can grow using light weights, but using a lot of blood, water, and glycogen to pump up and fill out the muscle. this will give my body a break from the elevated Androgens and Estrogen, but still hopefully help me grow some.

----------


## GearHeaded

what the diet is going to look like right now

meal 1 - whey isolate, milk, 2 slices potato bread
50g protein 50g carbs, 5g fat

meal 2 - 4 whole eggs, half cup egg whites, 4 oz ground beef, cup rice or cream of rice 
70g protein , 45g carbs, 25g fat

meal 3 - 7 oz steak or fish, 2 cups rice, cup veggies
50g protein , 100g carbs , 50g or 10g fat depending 

meal 4 - intra workout - 
50g carbs, 15g amino

meal 5 - Whey isolate , milk , 2 pop tarts
50g protein, 80g carbs , 15g fat

meal 6 - 10oz chicken, 1.5 cup rice, 1 cup veggies
70g protein, 70g carbs, 15g fat


340g protein , 370g carbs, 70-110g fat
roughly 3,700 cals

cheat meal - estimate 4 per week at 600-800cal each 

will run roughly 40iu of insulin with this and 50mcg per day of IGF. the 370g of carbs and high protein will cover that no prob

----------


## GearHeaded

so heres what the drugs have now settled into

TRT/cruise - 300mg Primo - 150mg Test
IGF - 50mcg per day 
Insulin 25-40iu per day
MK677 25mg per day

Clenbuterol 40mcg per day
T3 25mcg per day
No I'm not cutting. I'm using these for other purposes.

more HGH and T4 will be on the way at some point

----------


## Obs

> Want me to stop over?


Lmao!

----------


## Obs

> Don’t make me jealous, Kelkel! LOL
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If he has 30" calves I would be jealous of the calves, not him being on my gf.

----------


## GearHeaded

Alright, so guys I'm already thinking ahead here to what my next ON CYCLE EXPERIMENT is going to be once I come off this cruise. 

my thought is to do a 5 week long recomp phase

I already mentioned that I'm going to be running Stenbolone once I get back on . so Stenbolone will be my main mover (however, how can I not resist stacking it)

Stenbolone 600mg per week

Per day
Anadrol 50
Superdrol 20
Tren A 30

DNP 200mg

Test will be at TRT or less


heck, have you ever seen me think about doing such a low dose cycle . thats only a total of like 1400mg of AAS per week.
such a conservative little run it will be  :Smilie:

----------


## Chrisp83TRT

> Alright, so guys I'm already thinking ahead here to what my next ON CYCLE EXPERIMENT is going to be once I come off this cruise. 
> 
> my thought is to do a 5 week long recomp phase
> 
> I already mentioned that I'm going to be running Stenbolone once I get back on . so Stenbolone will be my main mover (however, how can I not resist stacking it)
> 
> Stenbolone 600mg per week
> 
> Per day
> ...


How dare you gear ... 4grams minimum a week , no less ! 

Sent from my JSN-AL00 using Tapatalk

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## kelkel

> heck, have you ever seen me think about doing such a low dose cycle . thats only a total of like 1400mg of AAS per week.
> such a conservative little run it will be



You ok?

----------


## GearHeaded

> You ok?


well I did mention that not 'all' my experiments are necessarily going to be 'crazy' .

but, just to keep it at least a wee bit crazy, even though the dosages are low , I'm throwing the DNP /Insulin combo in there for good measure  :Smilie:

----------


## Family_guy

Gear you should get some DHB and run that i would love to hear what you think of it

----------


## GearHeaded

> Gear you should get some DHB and run that i would love to hear what you think of it


Well I'm running Stenbolone . which IS a DHB derived steroid (its DHB with a slight modification to make it more bio available). So its very anabolic and you can probably get more out of stenbolone at lower dosages (so say 500mg Sten is like 800mg DHB).

but either way, yes at some point I will be running DHB itself . I'm expecting the Stenbolone and DHB to be very similar though

----------


## Obs

> Well I'm running Stenbolone . which IS a DHB derived steroid (its DHB with a slight modification to make it more bio available). So its very anabolic and you can probably get more out of stenbolone at lower dosages (so say 500mg Sten is like 800mg DHB).
> 
> but either way, yes at some point I will be running DHB itself . I'm expecting the Stenbolone and DHB to be very similar though


Did you get the sten from sciroxx?

----------


## GearHeaded

> Did you get the sten from sciroxx?


No I got it from my usual lab I use out of Turkey (pretty sure you know who I'm referring to)

----------


## Obs

> No I got it from my usual lab I use out of Turkey (pretty sure you know who I'm referring to)


Ok I was just making sure.
Saw some independent test of xxxxx lately and it was all shit.

*i was wrong*

----------


## GearHeaded

> Ok I was just making sure.
> Saw some independent test of sciroxx lately and it was all shit.


its as or more pricey then Primo . so probably another compound bound to be faked often

----------


## Family_guy

> No I got it from my usual lab I use out of Turkey (pretty sure you know who I'm referring to)


I don’t know who you’re referring to lol

----------


## GearHeaded

fasted blood sugar this morning .. 116 (I'm officially pre diabetic)
4iu of HGH per day , 25mg of MK677 at night . thats what happens when these two are stacked. guess its time to jump back on Metformin

guarantee that if I drop both of these, that within a few days my fasted blood sugar will be back into the mid 80s

----------


## GearHeaded

resting heart rate up 20 beats per minute, at 91 . I'm officially on Clen and T3 , but blood pressure is good at 122/70 (clen shouldn't raise your BP if anything it can lower it)

----------


## Old Duffer

Always interesting! Thanx

----------


## GearHeaded

UPDATE - Ok I'm back. and not only that, today marks the start of week 7 of being off cycle. so you know what that means, that means week 6 is done and my cruise is now over.

so today I shot 
200mg of Stenbolone
500mg of Deca 
100mg of NPP
50mg of injectable Anadrol 
and popped 20mg of Dbol pre workout.

so heres what I'm doing (yeah I been going back and fourth a bit on this, but I'm settling in on a 6 weeks anabolic phase)

Weeks 1-6
Stenbolone 525mg per week
Primobolon 375mg per week
Deca 500mg per week (1500mg per week to start as a front load for 2 weeks)

Kickstart weeks 1-4
Anadrol 50mg per day
NPP 50mg per day
Dbol 20mg per day (yes this is very low for me, but its used for a specific reason, its not my main driver)

After week 6 I'll switch over to an androgen/estrogen phase. but the above phase is almost purely Anabolic (whereas I ended my last cycle on a max androgen phase running 1g of tren and 2g of test with an androgenic rating of 7500). the kickstart for 4 weeks is almost entirely anabolic as well and very low androgenic but is a bit 'wet' to provide me some initial fullness and inter cellular water retention and increase in blood volume (hoping that will add on 8-10 pounds).

pretty simple and straight forward.. sometime after the 4 week kickstart I will probably transition into a bit of a recomp and add in DNP 


growth factors - the usual
Insulin 30-50iu
HGH - I'm going to use up a bunch of MK677 and peptides (hexarelin, GHRP, CJC) I got first then run 4iu Hgh

----------


## GearHeaded

UPDATE - so not a whole lot to report here as its only been 8 days since getting back on cycle. 

But front loading definitely works as I'm already beginning to soak up the nutrients, electrolytes and minerals, I'm giving my body (something Nandrolone is really good at doing). I'm up 6 pounds in a week even though my diet has been about the same. I'm sure the Anadrol is playing a role here as well.

In the last 8 days I've injected. 2500mg of Deca and 600mg of NPP to get the Nandrolone front load going.

The Stenbolone I'm doing daily injections. No pip with this at all, very smooth.

The injectable Anadrol. feels like I'm injecting lighter fluid, daily injections of it suck. I've ran this in the past so I knew that going in. once this is all gone I'm going back to Oral.. injectable Dbol on the other hand is very smooth

forget to mention. I'm keeping my Test dosage very low for this phase of my cycle. 200mg or less.

----------


## jolter604

Donate me them calfs man lol

----------


## kelkel

> The injectable Anadrol. feels like I'm injecting lighter fluid, .



Lovely.

----------


## GearHeaded

UPDATE on the Stenbolone.

ok so this is the first time running Stenbolone. 75mg per day, 525 per week. I'm running it as a key anabolic in the anabolic phase I'm in (keeping estrogen and androgens very low). However, Stenbolone is more androgenic then I expected it to be (sure on paper its 2x more anabolic then test, which it probably is, but its also androgenic). it actually feels like I'm running a mild dose of Tren (even my sleep is being effected).

this is not exactly what I was looking for at this point. if I wanted to feel like I'm running Tren then I would simply be running Tren (especially at half the cost of Stenbolone). I was looking for a pure anabolic phase. I planned on running Tren during phase 2 which will be a combination estrogen/androgen phase. So again, feels like I'm on tren, yet I don't have quite the fullness or the strength that Tren gives when your in a calorie surplus and high carbs. Tren can give a better look to your physique then this Stenbolone can.

so I will ride it out until the Stenbolone is gone, which will be at about the 6 week mark and see if I've added any tissue or not. so I'm undecided at this point , but I do know I will not be utilizing Sten as a pure anabolic for anabolic only phases. its too androgenic for this

----------


## charger69

> UPDATE on the Stenbolone.
> 
> ok so this is the first time running Stenbolone. 75mg per day, 525 per week. I'm running it as a key anabolic in the anabolic phase I'm in (keeping estrogen and androgens very low). However, Stenbolone is more androgenic then I expected it to be (sure on paper its 2x more anabolic then test, which it probably is, but its also androgenic). it actually feels like I'm running a mild dose of Tren (even my sleep is being effected).
> 
> this is not exactly what I was looking for at this point. if I wanted to feel like I'm running Tren then I would simply be running Tren (especially at half the cost of Stenbolone). I was looking for a pure anabolic phase. I planned on running Tren during phase 2 which will be a combination estrogen/androgen phase. So again, feels like I'm on tren, yet I don't have quite the fullness or the strength that Tren gives when your in a calorie surplus and high carbs. Tren can give a better look to your physique then this Stenbolone can.
> 
> so I will ride it out until the Stenbolone is gone, which will be at about the 6 week mark and see if I've added any tissue or not. so I'm undecided at this point , but I do know I will not be utilizing Sten as a pure anabolic for anabolic only phases. its too androgenic for this


Thanks for the post. As I am looking for new methods and ways, this makes it easier to discard things. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## MuscleScience

What is Stenbolone?

----------


## GearHeaded

> What is Stenbolone?


well Stenbolone is basically the offspring of aggression dominant Tren deciding to rage fuck sexy exotic (but supposedly weak) Primobolan in the ass.. while daddy (ie, di-hyrdo-boldennone) watches

----------


## kelkel

> well Stenbolone is basically the offspring of aggression dominant Tren deciding to rage fuck sexy exotic (but supposedly weak) Primobolan in the ass.. while daddy (ie, di-hyrdo-boldennone) watches



Pretty sure that's in the small print on the back of the label.....

----------


## GearHeaded

> Pretty sure that's in the small print on the back of the label.....


was in the tri fold drug description along with the script ..

seriously though, it must of been a blast for all these chemists decades ago to try and come up with the 1000+ steroids that exist today. guarantee you they thought of things like I just described when coming up with a new formula

----------


## HoldMyBeer

> well Stenbolone is basically the offspring of aggression dominant Tren deciding to rage fuck sexy exotic (but supposedly weak) Primobolan in the ass.. while daddy (ie, di-hyrdo-boldennone) watches


Hey GH, 
What are some of the highly anabolic steroids out there other than tren and halo? I thought nandrolone was, but turns out it isn't much better than masteron .
Better question, how do I research this so I don't have to bother other people? My Google search is coming up short

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

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## charger69

> Hey GH, 
> What are some of the highly anabolic steroids out there other than tren and halo? I thought nandrolone was, but turns out it isn't much better than masteron .
> Better question, how do I research this so I don't have to bother other people? My Google search is coming up short
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk


Www.gearheaded.com. LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## EDCG19

GH 
Running tren and some of the others you mentioned on the list throughout this thread how do you "optimize" your sleep/rest times or is there no real way of doing this

----------


## GearHeaded

> Hey GH, 
> What are some of the highly anabolic steroids out there other than tren and halo? I thought nandrolone was, but turns out it isn't much better than masteron .
> Better question, how do I research this so I don't have to bother other people? My Google search is coming up short


I actually don't consider Tren or Halo as anabolics . I wouldn't have them in an anabolic only phase of my cycle. they are way way way to androgenic to be a pure anabolic (of course they carry a strong anabolic rating on paper). I add those in only for androgen phases 

as for pure anaboiics. these are compounds that have very little androgenic effects and mainly only carry anabolic effects. so things like Primobolan , Anavar , Winstrol , Superdrol .. and yes Nandrolone (deca or npp) is also a very strong anabolic and would fit in the category of an anabolic steroid and not be used in androgen phases (also why it works very well for women).
Masteron on the other hand, looks like an anabolic on paper, but when metabolized and how it effects SHBG (lowers it) and causes elevated levels of DHT , it is more of an androgen as well.

of course there are plenty of times I would stack an anabolic and and androgen together . like Deca and Mast work very well together.

----------


## EDCG19

> GH 
> Running tren and some of the others you mentioned on the list throughout this thread how do you "optimize" your sleep/rest times or is there no real way of doing this


GH any info here? Why would tren /deca affect sleep issues? Whats the main cause?

----------


## GearHeaded

you know your gear has fully kicked in when your sitting here relaxing and still got a sick calf pump an hour after walking on the treadmill

----------


## GearHeaded

> Running tren and some of the others you mentioned on the list throughout this thread how do you "optimize" your sleep/rest times or is there no real way of doing this
> 
> GH any info here? Why would tren/deca affect sleep issues? Whats the main cause?


well really one of the whole points in me currently running an Anabolic only phase and limiting androgens is to try to grow (I'm not worried about strength or performance in the gym right now or burning fat, or anything else androgens help with). So was hoping this anabolic phase would not effect my sleep or effect my appetite so I can really just focus on nutrition, recovery, rest, and growth.
but it looks like the Stenbolone is more androgenic then I had hoped for and my sleep is definitely not where it needs to be.

as far as Deca effecting sleep . it never has effected my sleep, as Deca is almost nearly a pure anabolic with very little androgenic effects (its the androgens that stimulate the CNS and other things that effect sleep). Tren on the other hand is a very strong androgen (5x more then test) and is going to effect sleep big time.

----------


## kelkel

> you know your gear has fully kicked in when your sitting here relaxing and still got a sick calf pump an hour after walking on the treadmill



Nice. More guys would have solid calves if they trained them with the same ferocity as their chest and arms....

----------


## EDCG19

> *well really one of the whole points in me currently running an Anabolic only phase and limiting androgens is to try to grow (I'm not worried about strength or performance in the gym right now or burning fat, or anything else androgens help with). So was hoping this anabolic phase would not effect my sleep or effect my appetite so I can really just focus on nutrition, recovery, rest, and growth.
> but it looks like the Stenbolone is more androgenic then I had hoped for and my sleep is definitely not where it needs to be.*
> 
> as far as Deca effecting sleep . it never has effected my sleep, as Deca is almost nearly a pure anabolic with very little androgenic effects (its the androgens that stimulate the CNS and other things that effect sleep). Tren on the other hand is a very strong androgen (5x more then test) and is going to effect sleep big time.



do you have any personal preference for muscle growth training?
I'm mostly focused on strength training and powerlifting but i do add in tons of accessory work with tons of sets/reps. Specfically upper body i hit pretty hard with isolation and dumbbell work after a heavy chest session
Without adding in any other androges whats your preferred training method? I don't think i noticed much about your training style but since you're a PT are you in the higher rep ranges with a good amount of weight or focus more on the smaller/mid range reps for muscle growth?

----------


## GearHeaded

so I pulled the Stenbolne out of the cycle about a week or two ago just as a test. my sleep has improved. I no longer feel as anxious as I did before. my thought that the Sten was way more Androgenic then it shows on paper is true.

----------


## Couchlockd

> so I pulled the Stenbolne out of the cycle about a week or two ago just as a test. my sleep has improved. I no longer feel as anxious as I did before. my thought that the Sten was way more Androgenic then it shows on paper is true.


Sten. You got some special tools hidden away I see.

Ever consider changing avatar?

I found some real cool ones for you.

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## fiddlesticks

It's time to go balls deep and fucking start mtren, sdrol or both! Injectable! 10k cals as well .

THG if you could find it would also be splendid.

----------


## HoldMyBeer

> It's time to go balls deep and fucking start mtren, sdrol or both! Injectable! 10k cals as well .
> 
> THG if you could find it would also be splendid.


If I recall what GH said, muscle is built at a fixed rate, so haveing insanely high (10k) calorie intake won't build more muscle, it will just make you fat

Be careful with mtren, it's hell on your liver

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

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## fiddlesticks

> If I recall what GH said, muscle is built at a fixed rate, so haveing insanely high (10k) calorie intake won't build more muscle, it will just make you fat
> 
> Be careful with mtren, it's hell on your liver
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk


I have done some pretty disgusting stuff and have gained very amazing amounts of muscle very quickly eating like 10-15k a day for some time. There are definitely interesting anabolic effects when you overfeed to disgusting amounts. Something really interesting is I would get insanely horny like I never have before so that makes me believe it lowers stress hormones and raises free T alot. Strangely I end up feeling very good eating this sickening amount of food. Nice neurological effects. Feel like death when calories are low. Just difficult to do because certain food works better than others.

That being said I am 6,4 and have been anywhere from240-320 the past few years so 10k isnt piss for me tbh.

----------


## HoldMyBeer

> I have done some pretty disgusting stuff and have gained very amazing amounts of muscle very quickly eating like 10-15k a day for some time. There are definitely interesting anabolic effects when you overfeed to disgusting amounts. Something really interesting is I would get insanely horny like I never have before so that makes me believe it lowers stress hormones and raises free T alot. Strangely I end up feeling very good eating this sickening amount of food. Nice neurological effects. Feel like death when calories are low. Just difficult to do because certain food works better than others.
> 
> That being said I am 6,4 and have been anywhere from240-320 the past few years so 10k isnt piss for me tbh.


Hmm I've gone through periods like that when my libido was off the charts. I thought it had to do w the gear, never considered the dietary factor...

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## GearHeaded

> I have done some pretty disgusting stuff and have gained very amazing amounts of muscle very quickly eating like 10-15k a day for some time. There are definitely interesting anabolic effects when you overfeed to disgusting amounts. Something really interesting is I would get insanely horny like I never have before so that makes me believe it lowers stress hormones and raises free T alot. Strangely I end up feeling very good eating this sickening amount of food. Nice neurological effects. Feel like death when calories are low. Just difficult to do because certain food works better than others.
> 
> That being said I am 6,4 and have been anywhere from240-320 the past few years so 10k isnt piss for me tbh.


I'm just the opposite. get me in a very slight calorie deficit and I all around feel much better ,, better sleep, better energy, less aches and pains, lower inflammation, etc.

maybe it has to do with age (I'm 41). but seems getting older any food over and above what I need to get my basis of nutrition and micro nutrients in just becomes a burden of inflammatory waste my body has to deal with, putting unneeded stress on it.

at my age I think sleep is the number one priority for recovery and food is second. perhaps when your younger your body can better utilize food

----------


## Proximal

Yes, sleep!!!!!

----------


## charger69

> I'm just the opposite. get me in a very slight calorie deficit and I all around feel much better ,, better sleep, better energy, less aches and pains, lower inflammation, etc.
> 
> maybe it has to do with age (I'm 41). but seems getting older any food over and above what I need to get my basis of nutrition and micro nutrients in just becomes a burden of inflammatory waste my body has to deal with, putting unneeded stress on it.
> 
> at my age I think sleep is the number one priority for recovery and food is second. perhaps when your younger your body can better utilize food


Old man!!! LOL


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## GearHeaded

> Old man!!! LOL


yeah yeah ,, I guess I should be happy I'm still eating solid food and able to wipe my own ass eh . with all the injuries and surgeries and broken bones I've had over the years, guess I sometimes feel old as dirt

----------


## Cowboymike

> yeah yeah ,, I guess I should be happy I'm still eating solid food and able to wipe my own ass eh . with all the injuries and surgeries and broken bones I've had over the years, guess I sometimes feel old as dirt


Lol Im 41 and I can report you took the exact description of how I feel and laid it in word form exactly as I feel... its the new 41 I guess

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## kelkel

You guys are still in puberty.....

----------


## GearHeaded

UPDATE - 

so I've been on very low Test for a couple months now. like 150-200mg per week. sometimes going 10 or more days before bothering to inject test. I've struggled with back acne issues which pretty much went away the last couple months when on low dose test (despite jumping on a cycle some weeks back).

well about a week ago I decided to bump my Test dosage up to 750mg per week. well what do you know I'm breaking out again. no surprise, I already knew this. just mainly writing this down for you guys to know. low dosage test cycles have less negative sides, like acne, then higher dosage.
but it depends on the context and other compounds your running.

I'm running Primo and that lowers SHBG. which does increase free test (which is why I was running such a low dosage of test as well). BUT even more then raising free test, it frees up DHT even more so (SHBG binds up DHT more then anything else).

so its natural to get some DHT sides from a drug like Primo (its not because its dht derived or that it converts to dht , it doesn't.. its simply because of the shbg effect and displacing more dht). But if you lower or restrict your 'source' of DHT , ie, Testosterone , then after some time these DHT effects will go down and it doesn't matter much if Primo is lowering SHBG and freeing up more DHT, because there is very little source for DHT production to begin with.

so anyhow. I got some DHT sides when first starting the Primo (months ago). which is to be expected being its going to free up more DHT that was bound to SHBG. BUT I drastically lowered the source of DHT, ie, Test, at the same time .. if you all recall, I was running 2000 mg per week of Test just before starting a cruise with primo, and thats when I dropped the Test down to like 150.

so even with the Primo, the DHT sides went away and so did the acne (because my test dose was so low.. which again goes to show that DHT based compounds like Var, Winny, Primo, do NOT necessary display DHT side effects unless the actual source of DHT is there to begin with, and that source is Testosterone ,, as these compounds have no ability in and of themselves to produce DHT).

by me adding in 750mg of Test to this Primo I been running,, I just "fed the beast" sort of speak and gave my body all the DHT it suddenly needed to cause all the crappy DHT side effects .
in this case the Primo and Test together made things worse then Test alone . of course if I would have just ran the Primo and kept my Test very low like I had been, I'd of had no issues at all.

on the reverse of all this. like I said its context dependent.. lets say I was running something like Tren and Primo with NO test and my DHT was too low and my dick wouldn't work. well then adding the Test in at like 500mg would get me that DHT my body needs to function.
its a fine balance one way or the other.

I'll consider this a successfully learned "experiment" in how DHT derived compounds and Testosterone work in regards to DHT based side effects.
I kinda already knew this anyways. I knew that adding test at higher dosages gives me DHT side effects. but I now know in more specific detail how this is even more greatly effected and sensitive when SHBG lowering compounds are also in the mix.

I'll go out on a limb here and say that if you run DHT derived compounds , like Primo, Mast, Var, Winny, etc.. and your afraid that they are going to give you DHT side effects . that this will only be true if you provide your cycle a source of DHT (ie, Testosterone). These compounds by themselves cannot covert to DHT or make DHT. but they can make your source of DHT more potent (by lowering SHBG and freeing up more DHT).
try running these compounds solo with no test and see if you end up with DHT sides.

live and learn..


I'm thinking of dropping Test out completely. then adding in low dose Tren at like 200mg per week is all. another experiment

----------


## kelkel

2K of test per week! Damn GH.
I read a study a year or so ago on very low dose tren for HRT. I'll see if I can find it.

----------


## GearHeaded

> 2K of test per week! Damn GH.
> I read a study a year or so ago on very low dose tren for HRT. I'll see if I can find it.


that 2k of test a week was along with 1k of tren per week and like 600mg mast. but it was just a short term crazy "experiment" . thats what I'm here for  :Smilie: 

regarding low dose Tren. I've utilized it several times in the past where I'll run like 15mg per day of tren. I've got some clients (some members of this board actually) that you know of who I had do this as well that got pretty good results from that with no Tren sides. we had their base cycle set up and then just added in 10-15mg of tren ace per day. works like a charm and can be ran long term

----------


## kelkel

> that 2k of test a week was along with 1k of tren per week and like 600mg mast. but it was just a short term crazy "experiment" . thats what I'm here for 
> 
> regarding low dose Tren. I've utilized it several times in the past where I'll run like 15mg per day of tren. I've got some clients (some members of this board actually) that you know of who I had do this as well that got pretty good results from that with no Tren sides. we had their base cycle set up and then just added in 10-15mg of tren ace per day. works like a charm and can be ran long term



I know a few guys who didn't run test at all pre-comp. I'd struggle with that but they seemed ok with it.

----------


## GearHeaded

> I know a few guys who didn't run test at all pre-comp. I'd struggle with that but they seemed ok with it.


the practical thing to do is run at least like 100-150mg per week. . but I'm just going to pull it out all together. my biggest worry would be a total drop in estrogen and dht levels. BUT I'm running 20mg of Dbol pre workout. thats not much, but thats going to at least give me a very very minor amount of DHT and of course will give me some Estrogen.

curious to see if that low a dose of Dbol will cover those two needs for me or not

----------


## kelkel

> the practical thing to do is run at least like 100-150mg per week. . but I'm just going to pull it out all together. my biggest worry would be a total drop in estrogen and dht levels. BUT I'm running 20mg of Dbol pre workout. thats not much, but thats going to at least give me a very very minor amount of DHT and of course will give me some Estrogen.
> 
> curious to see if that low a dose of Dbol will cover those two needs for me or not



I'm curious how you will feel. Why not something really low like 50 mgs per week and load up on creatine to increase dht conversion?

----------


## KennyJ

GH, how do you feel mentally and physically when you're just cruising on say 150 of test/week?

----------


## GearHeaded

> I'm curious how you will feel. Why not something really low like 50 mgs per week and load up on creatine to increase dht conversion?


not a bad idea if I suspect my dht is getting too low.. for now I'm going to let it plummet some and see if that clears up some of the dht sides

----------


## GearHeaded

> GH, how do you feel mentally and physically when you're just cruising on say 150 of test/week?


hmm I don't know.. maybe I should run an experiment and give that a try  :Smilie: 

seriously though I don't think I've been on only test and that low since I was bed ridden, crippled, and strung out on pain meds. so I can't really compare how I felt then. heck even after the surgeries and I started recovering and came off the pain meds, I added in Deca and HGH to speed up the healing process.

when I'm "off cycle" and just cruising on say 150mg of test, I still always have some amount of an anabolic in there like primo, eq, deca, at like 300mg. so I don't really know what just 150mg of only test feels like.
I add the anabolic in because test at those dosages is merely an androgen and isn't going to upregulate protein synthesis or nitrogen retention to any real degree (you need much higher dosages to get this), whereas the anabolic will directly simulate these things even at low dose.

----------


## KennyJ

> hmm I don't know.. maybe I should run an experiment and give that a try 
> 
> seriously though I don't think I've been on only test and that low since I was bed ridden, crippled, and strung out on pain meds. so I can't really compare how I felt then. heck even after the surgeries and I started recovering and came off the pain meds, I added in Deca and HGH to speed up the healing process.
> 
> when I'm "off cycle" and just cruising on say 150mg of test, I still always have some amount of an anabolic in there like primo, eq, deca, at like 300mg. so I don't really know what just 150mg of only test feels like.
> I add the anabolic in because test at those dosages is merely an androgen and isn't going to upregulate protein synthesis or nitrogen retention to any real degree (you need much higher dosages to get this), whereas the anabolic will directly simulate these things even at low dose.


Ok, I see
Thanks buddy

----------


## GearHeaded

diet and training update

so I'm going to experiment with some changes here. I'm going to call it the MEAT AND POTATOES EXPERIMENT . my training is going to be very very basic meat and potatoes stuff, and my diet is going to actually consist of mainly , yep you guessed it , meat and potatoes .

so any of you guys that have seen my training programs I write for clients, or seen me log some of my own workouts know that I'm very high volume, high frequency, focused. and that I use a lot of different exercises and angles. I rotate low rep compounds with high rep isolation work, implement lots of different intensity techniques like rest pause, super set, drop sets, muscle rounds, etc..

well I'm going to drop all that for right now and do a super basic 'meat and potatoes' program. it will be push, pull, legs with added accessory and arm day. each workout is only going to consist of two main exercises and one accessory exercise. thats it (which is totally the opposite of the 2 hour two a day 40 sets and a bunch of different exercises style I been doing).

so for example push day 1 - 
exercise 1 - bench press
exercise 2 - overhead press
accessory exercise - lateral raises . then the next push day it will be cable flies

thats it. not much going on here. but here is how I'm going to accumulate some volume and overload.

bench press for example I will do
135 pounds for 6 reps (this is probably an RIR of like 30 being I could probably do like 40 reps with this weight)
175 pounds for 6 reps
185 pounds for 6 reps
205 pounds for 6 reps
225 pounds for 6 reps
245 pounds for 6 reps
265 pounds for 6 reps
rest a good 5 mins 
275 pounds 4 reps
295 pounds 2 reps
135 pounds AMRAP

I'll do a similar set up for the overhead seated press. then the side laterals or cable flies will probably be 6 sets of 12.
3 exercises total is all and I'm done. 

on pull days it will be similar set up, using the Lat pull down (vertical pull) and a T-bar, seated or bent over row (horizontal pull). with an accessory being shrugs, or face pulls.

leg day will be same set up, using belted squat machine or standard squats, with leg press or hack squat. then the accessory will be leg extensions on leg day 1. and hamstring curls on the next leg day.
again only 2 main exercises and 1 accessory exercise the entire leg day workout. 

arm day will be similar. only there will be 2 bicep exercises and 2 tricep exercises. 1 forearm exercise.

I'm not sure how long these workouts will take, but I'm guessing only 50 mins compared to my 1.5-2 hour workouts . one of my goals here is to help my recovery. I really don't feel I've been recovering very well the last couple months

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## charger69

> diet and training update
> 
> so I'm going to experiment with some changes here. I'm going to call it the MEAT AND POTATOES EXPERIMENT . my training is going to be very very basic meat and potatoes stuff, and my diet is going to actually consist of mainly , yep you guessed it , meat and potatoes .
> 
> so any of you guys that have seen my training programs I write for clients, or seen me log some of my own workouts know that I'm very high volume, high frequency, focused. and that I use a lot of different exercises and angles. I rotate low rep compounds with high rep isolation work, implement lots of different intensity techniques like rest pause, super set, drop sets, muscle rounds, etc..
> 
> well I'm going to drop all that for right now and do a super basic 'meat and potatoes' program. it will be push, pull, legs with added accessory and arm day. each workout is only going to consist of two main exercises and one accessory exercise. thats it (which is totally the opposite of the 2 hour two a day 40 sets and a bunch of different exercises style I been doing).
> 
> so for example push day 1 - 
> ...


Keep us updated. Watch you triglycerides with all the meat. 
I used to be a meat and potatoes guy. Triglycerides were 3 x the normal limit. 


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## GearHeaded

> Keep us updated. Watch you triglycerides with all the meat. 
> I used to be a meat and potatoes guy. Triglycerides were 3 x the normal limit.


wow, Potatoes cause high Triglycerides  :Wink:  I'll keep my meats fairly lean and not likely go over 2.5 pounds per day. what were you mainly eating back then compared to now ?

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## GearHeaded

so day 1 of the meat and potato experiment .

push workout was like I laid out above. I only did 3 exercises.
compound - bench press
compound - over head press
isolation - cable flies 

took about 50 mins.. Half the time of some of my workouts. 
I have to say though with my shoulder issues and rotator, I have not done bench press (in regards to it being a working set exercise) in probably a year or more. and have not done much if any pressing at all (not even dumbbells) since the last tweak 6 weeks ago. So I was way weaker in my bench press then I expected. so this is going to take time and hope shoulder holds up. instead of going up past 245 pounds I just stayed there and stuck with sets and reps of 6.
surprisingly, because of the angle, over head press does not bother the shoulder like flat bench press does.


diet - not much different to report. 
but my post workout was different. instead of my normal whey isolate shake, and pop tart or bagel, with insulin . I ate 6oz salmon, 5oz shrimp, and two baked potatoes with insulin 

drugs currently -

no test
500 deca 
375 primo
300 tren 

thats it for AAS right now (other then 20mg Dbol pre workout). pretty light dosages right now, but will be ramping things up soon. I have some 'Iranian' pharma grade Anadrol I'll be starting here soon at 50mg per day. and will rotate some Winny and Var in with that for short phases.

Insulin - 20-40iu per day.. I just started this back up after about a 4 week break.
T3 25mcg per day
T4 will be added in next week at 75mcg
Clen 20-40mcg per day
unfortunately out of HGH .. I've been running MK677 off and on based on blood sugar levels (I took a break from it when I took the break from the insulin) 


all in all . nothing too fancy or 'crazy' going on right now. keeping things fairly "meat and potatoes"  :Smilie:

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## charger69

> wow, Potatoes cause high Triglycerides  I'll keep my meats fairly lean and not likely go over 2.5 pounds per day. what were you mainly eating back then compared to now ?


The red meat. In alll fairness, I knew nothing about diet at the time, but red meat almost every day. 
I switched the red meat for chicken and brought it down within range the following year. 


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## GearHeaded

quick update. so I just started a new source of Dbols. some blue hearts from a middle eastern country. I'm only 2 days in at 50mg.

my blood pressure has been 120/70 for weeks now.. my last recorded reading which was Sunday morning it was 116/68. well today I''m 160/82. thats a damn fast jump in blood pressure. only thought is that these 10mg blue hearts are potent as fk. geeesh.

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## kelkel

> I have to say though with my shoulder issues and rotator, I have not done bench press (in regards to it being a working set exercise) in probably a year or more. and have not done much if any pressing at all (not even dumbbells) since the last tweak 6 weeks ago. So I was way weaker in my bench press then I expected. so this is going to take time and hope shoulder holds up. instead of going up past 245 pounds I just stayed there and stuck with sets and reps of 6.
> surprisingly, because of the angle, over head press does not bother the shoulder like flat bench press does.



Just make sure when benching or shoulder pressing your elbows don't go straight out to the side in line with your shoulders. It's far healthier for the joint if they're angled forward a bit. On shoulders try and make sure the bench is slightly leaning back as well for the same reason.

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## GearHeaded

> Just make sure when benching or shoulder pressing your elbows don't go straight out to the side in line with your shoulders. It's far healthier for the joint if they're angled forward a bit. On shoulders try and make sure the bench is slightly leaning back as well for the same reason.


so for example with Bench pressing.. if I were to put a towel into my arm pit I should have enough elbow tuck to keep the towel there while benching, but if the towel comes out I may be flaring my elbows out too much causing them to be more in line with the shoulders ?
are we thinking about this the same way ?

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## kelkel

> so for example with Bench pressing.. if I were to put a towel into my arm pit I should have enough elbow tuck to keep the towel there while benching, but if the towel comes out I may be flaring my elbows out too much causing them to be more in line with the shoulders ?
> are we thinking about this the same way ?



Depends on the size of the towel! (size matters) Visualize maybe 30 degrees. A slightly closer grip will naturally help as well.

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## GearHeaded

Update - it's late. I'm tired. but I'm sitting here typing this trying to get this last meal down eating these damn red potatos 

other then force feeding myself potatoes , white rice, and large servings of meat,, things have been going well and my energy levels are pretty high these last 4 days

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## Obs

> Update - it's late. I'm tired. but I'm sitting here typing this trying to get this last meal down eating these damn red potatos 
> 
> other then force feeding myself potatoes , white rice, and large servings of meat,, things have been going well and my energy levels are pretty high these last 4 days


Man I am getting sick of eating.
My solution has been not to. 
I simply dont give a shit about food.
Biggest downfall.

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## GearHeaded

> Man I am getting sick of eating.
> My solution has been not to. 
> I simply dont give a shit about food.
> Biggest downfall.


hardest part of all of this is just simply trying to eat on a regular basis. I won't miss an injection (I'll take extras just in case), I won't miss a workout (I'll work out an extra hour just in case) ,, but missing a meal, shit I could skip a whole day of eating no problem. its pathetic how many meals I miss in a week.

respect to guys like Jay cutler that were consistent and ate 7 meals a day for 7 years straight. I can't even make it 7 hours sometimes

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## Obs

> hardest part of all of this is just simply trying to eat on a regular basis. I won't miss an injection (I'll take extras just in case), I won't miss a workout (I'll work out an extra hour just in case) ,, but missing a meal, shit I could skip a whole day of eating no problem. its pathetic how many meals I miss in a week.
> 
> respect to guys like Jay cutler that were consistent and ate 7 meals a day for 7 years straight. I can't even make it 7 hours sometimes


I cant imagine. 
I have got to drop ephedrine and stimulants. 
Gonna be hell just to maintain with my schedule.

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## GearHeaded

> I cant imagine. 
> I have got to drop ephedrine and stimulants. 
> Gonna be hell just to maintain with my schedule.


yep. the days I don't get my meals in I'm usually drinking coffee from 7am to 4pm. if I stop coffee at like 10am then I'm way more consistent with my meals. when your 'stimed out' you just don't care about food at all. with Clen at low doses I can still maintain a good appetite though.

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## Obs

> yep. the days I don't get my meals in I'm usually drinking coffee from 7am to 4pm. if I stop coffee at like 10am then I'm way more consistent with my meals. when your 'stimed out' you just don't care about food at all. with Clen at low doses I can still maintain a good appetite though.


I usually try to wait until after breakfast before drinking coffee. Gonna be fast fooding a lot just to survive. 
Dehydration is my other issue. I never drink enough water.

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## GearHeaded

all I know is that IF I loved food as much as I did coffee, whisky, and sexy Latina women ,, I'd be fking HUGE !

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## Old Duffer

> all I know is that IF I loved food as much as I did coffee, whisky, and sexy Latina women ,, I'd be fking HUGE !


Lmao!

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## Obs

> all I know is that IF I loved food as much as I did coffee, whisky, and sexy Latina women ,, I'd be fking HUGE !


I need to get one of those.

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## kelkel

> all I know is that IF I loved food as much as I did coffee, whisky, and sexy Latina women ,, I'd be fking HUGE !



So true.

Re eating. It really does get f'n old at times. When you're eating 6-7 meals a day you're never hungry for your next meal, which sucks.

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## HoldMyBeer

> So true.
> 
> Re eating. It really does get f'n old at times. When you're eating 6-7 meals a day you're never hungry for your next meal, which sucks.


I'm ALWAYS hungry. I wish I had that problem

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## GearHeaded

> So true.
> 
> Re eating. It really does get f'n old at times. When you're eating 6-7 meals a day you're never hungry for your next meal, which sucks.


yeah I hear ya . I'm sitting here right now trying to put down a giant 16oz Costco steak and a baked potato, which is usually a treat of a meal, but I just had a cup of egg whites, 4 eggs, and a bowl of cream of rice. and I'm already thinking about the 10oz of ground turkey and 2 cups of rice meal I already prepped thats sitting in the fridge waiting for me in another couple hours pre workout.

I'd rather do fasted cardio then eat all of this  :Smilie:

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## charger69

> So true.
> 
> Re eating. It really does get f'n old at times. When you're eating 6-7 meals a day you're never hungry for your next meal, which sucks.


Well someone who shares my taste in women!! LOL


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## charger69

> yeah I hear ya . I'm sitting here right now trying to put down a giant 16oz Costco steak and a baked potato, which is usually a treat of a meal, but I just had a cup of egg whites, 4 eggs, and a bowl of cream of rice. and I'm already thinking about the 10oz of ground turkey and 2 cups of rice meal I already prepped thats sitting in the fridge waiting for me in another couple hours pre workout.
> 
> I'd rather do fasted cardio then eat all of this


Thats true until you start fasted cardio. LOL


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## Obs

> yeah I hear ya . I'm sitting here right now trying to put down a giant 16oz Costco steak and a baked potato, which is usually a treat of a meal, but I just had a cup of egg whites, 4 eggs, and a bowl of cream of rice. and I'm already thinking about the 10oz of ground turkey and 2 cups of rice meal I already prepped thats sitting in the fridge waiting for me in another couple hours pre workout.
> 
> I'd rather do fasted cardio then eat all of this


Attachment 176108

Dirty handed sonic double bacon.
Gf is cooking at home...

I grow better off this though.
I think my body converts fat to protein before digestion.
Gonna tryto hit 6k-8k per day of fast food. 

Very good looking carhops here anyway

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## charger69

> Attachment 176108
> 
> Dirty handed sonic double bacon.
> Gf is cooking at home...
> 
> I grow better off this though.
> I think my body converts fat to protein before digestion.
> Gonna tryto hit 6k-8k per day of fast food. 
> 
> Very good looking carhops here anyway


Its not true if you dont have pics. 


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## Couchlockd

> Attachment 176108
> 
> Dirty handed sonic double bacon.
> Gf is cooking at home...
> 
> I grow better off this though.
> I think my body converts fat to protein before digestion.
> Gonna tryto hit 6k-8k per day of fast food. 
> 
> Very good looking carhops here anyway


OBS, I wish you'd limit the fast food to 3x week

I know you need calories, try high quality sugar water...

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## HoldMyBeer

> Attachment 176108
> 
> Dirty handed sonic double bacon.
> Gf is cooking at home...
> 
> I grow better off this though.
> I think my body converts fat to protein before digestion.
> Gonna tryto hit 6k-8k per day of fast food. 
> 
> Very good looking carhops here anyway


Lucky .. I want to be able to eat burgers! Fat content is too high. Maybe if I take enough tren my body will convert fat into protein as well

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## DeeCee112

Hey GH first off thanks for taking the time to log all of this! This post carried on a bit which I apologize for don't mean to hijack your thread but few things I want to say. 

I think for myself as a rookie it's been refreshing see the real day to day from some of the vets on this thread. Ive found that coming into this game and hitting the forums too often you meet non stop criticism that beats you down if you don't follow the exact fucking protocol or guideline in the Bible of starting steroids as written by the internet. 

You aren't eating enough or properly your going to fail
You aren't taking this or that you don't know what your doing
You got sick or missed workouts you should quit

I got a stomach flu AND mild bronchitis (three kids in daycare fuck me right) so far in this cycle and it got me down pretty bad, but I'm glad I didn't just eject because I fought through it and am still doing well enough. I've eaten fast food, I've missed workouts due to crazy work schedule, I didn't start HCG off the bat ect.

Anyway I guess just trying to summarize its cool to see the real deal instead of just high and mighty attitude on the forum and logs like: Im on blah blah everything is amazing life is perfect I workout everyday and eat everyday never miss anything and omg guys I've gained 15lbs this week of pure lean muscle (side note I hate that term like wtf is there fat muscle!?!) 

Your a dude with multiple injuries, a busy life, shit happens in life but your grinding it the fuck out for every pound of muscle because that's the life you love. Do you deserve to run AAS even though you don't plan to be an IFBB pro? Why the fuck not? Theres a lot of relevant experience to learn from in here on keeping it going through injuries, sickness, negative experience with compounds and how to identify and correct it, anabolic and androgen properties and structuring cycles, and guess what it's hard to stuff 7 meals a day into your fucking mouth and most of us aren't genetic freaks and it's hard to put on solid muscle. I can relate to that man. Thanks. 

BTW I have similar issues with my pecs and shoulders. I stopped working shoulders out really besides some cable isolation work of side and rear heads because my delts at some point in my early training completely overcame my pecs. I believe from poor posture and winged scapulars that I didn't know enough to correct at the time. It got so bad I couldn't even isolate my upper pecs without flexing my shoulders more. My shoulders still suffer from tissue damage from being the primary mover in heavy benches, construction work in a forward dominant position. I have wide and round shoulders which is sweet and all but I have to fight, and concentrate and carefully train and work around pain for any pec gains.

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## GearHeaded

I appreciate you taking the time to check my log out and making that post DeeCee. comments like that keep me motivated , not only for myself and my own gains , but helping other guys out to make gains as well !

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## GearHeaded

minor update -

I'm adding in 25mg of Benadryl per night . no not for allergies. just to see if it does anything for some of the Tren side effects . not that they are bad by any means at the moment, but the dosage is going to be ramping up.

Tren can give me some gnarly heart burn and acid reflux and just an overall feeling of toxicity. almost like my body is trying to detox itself through my stomach. without getting into all the details right now, its late, I'll just say I believe this may have to do with a Histamine response generated by the Tren (perhaps it is a type of toxic response).
So why not try running an anti histamine that has the added benefit of making you drowsy . as tren does effect my sleep.

sure I can do traditional acid reflux meds like Prevacid or other PPI . but if it really is a histamine response from the Tren, the Benadryl, if it helps the problem , will tell me that thats whats going on. and not simply just mask the problem like most heart burn meds do.
and again, the added benefit of a sleep aide .


still on the meat and potatoes diet and training program. training only about 4 days per week right now. volume is way way down compared to what it had been. the food/calories and the drugs are going to start to ramp up more. my instinct is to want to add in more training volume when I do that , but I'm gong to resist the urge right now . I really want to focus just on growth and recovery right now.

I've been extremely lethargic the last week or so. this tells me (at least I hope) I'm in a bit of a growth phase. I won't be surprised that a week or so goes by and I've jumped up a good 6 or more pounds. 

we'll see. not bad at all considering I'm training a lot less, and my drug cycle is extremely moderate compared to past cycles. BUT if you'll remember, my last cycle ended with a blast phase which had the sole purpose of trying to stimulate androgen receptor turnover as an investment into my future cycles. I did that 7,500mg equivalent androgen load blast at the end of the last cycle in hopes of that carrying over to my next couple cycles, and not simply trying to get gains from it during that cycle itself .

I'm growing off of lower dosages now after doing that. maybe it worked. I didn't invent the strategy. I got the idea from a very smart guy that was the head chemist at a big pharma company for 25 years and spent his whole life studying mainly the androgen receptor.
his theory was that if you completely blast and over load your body with a massive influx of androgens, that your body will super compensate and super up-regulate the production of more and more androgen receptors in attempt to deal with that big influx of AAS. so thats what I did the last 3 weeks of the last cycle by blasting 7,500mg a week equivalent of androgens (I felt horrible by the way and didn't sleep at all during most the time doing that)

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## charger69

Try baking soda and water. It does the trick for my acid reflux. 


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## kelkel

> mTren can give me some gnarly heart burn and acid reflux and just an overall feeling of toxicity. almost like my body is trying to detox itself through my stomach.



Since running BPC-157 for my shoulder tear my acid reflux (Barrett's Esophagus) has improved dramatically. Normally in the evening I'd be pounding down Tums. Don't need them now.

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## Charlie67

> Since running BPC-157 for my shoulder tear my acid reflux (Barrett's Esophagus) has improved dramatically. Normally in the evening I'd be pounding down Tums. Don't need them now.


Side question for Kel... How long do (did) you run BPC?

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## kelkel

Didn't take long to notice that effect. I've been running it more on that off since the beginning of the year or so.

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## Obs

> Since running BPC-157 for my shoulder tear my acid reflux (Barrett's Esophagus) has improved dramatically. Normally in the evening I'd be pounding down Tums. Don't need them now.


I relly need to try bpc and t500

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## Obs

> Try baking soda and water. It does the trick for my acid reflux. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Mix some shitty tasting shit in water and drink it...

I will choke on acid

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## GearHeaded

so its about time to make some adjustments to the AAS 

this is what I've been doing recently 

350mg Primo
500mg Deca 
300mg Tren 
200mg test (after a few weeks with no test)

a combo of Dbol and Adrol as my orals (30mg of Dbol, 50mg Adrol). on and off as an accessory to my base cycle. however I cut both of these out a few days ago. reason why is I just wanted to check my weight and my gains without the added water and glycogen that instantly come from theses two orals (again I'm in a tissue gaining phase, and not just a mass gaining phase)

T4 75mcg per day
insulin 30iu per day (various training days only)
Mk677 25mg per day (about 4 days per week only)

so the Primo is about to run dry. I been on it at a low dose since I came off my last cycle and went on a 6 week off cycle cruise. so I been on it for several months. 

heres a few ideas of tweaks I may make.. one thing I'm going to do differently is I'm going to END this cycle with a volumization and estrogen phase. I often times start out a cycle this way. the reason is to put on a lot of lean tissue now , and then 'blow it up' at the end of the cycle, rather then blowing up existing tissue at the start of the cycle. trying to blow up both existing and new tissue at the end of this cycle, and then try and maintain that new set point into my off cycle cruise. rather then drying out first, and going into an off cycle cruise phase in a dry state (if that makes sense to you all)

so again Primo is going bye bye in a week or so

EQ 600mg
Deca 750mg
Tren 300mg

Anavar 25mg per day .. Dbol 20mg PW . test stays at low trt

so the EQ replaces the Primo as the 'anabolic ' . and this is with a much look forward approach, in that I plan on going into my next off cycle cruise phase using EQ as my cruise. so I'm starting that now in the middle of this cycle, so that when I actually go into my cruise, the EQ has already been in there a good 6-8 weeks first. I'm not coming "off cycle" for only 6 weeks and waiting for my EQ to 'kick in' .. its already there. just like when you use TRT dose of test to cruise on when off cycle, the test has generally been in there the whole time year round. you don't come 'off cycle' and take test e and wait for it to kick in.

the deca increases to 750mg . no biggy here. nothing to explain as its about time to taper up the dosage.

tren stays at only 300mg per week.. being I'm running very low dose test, the tren is acting as my main androgen on this cycle, yet provides a ton more tissue growth and anabolic properties then test. no point in increasing the dosage. its used only for this certain purpose.

VAR - so only running 25mg per day here. low dose. just adding a bit of CP up regulation and anabolic load to this cycle with minimal negative sides or liver toxicity. will keep SHBG low and help my very low dose of Test be a bit more productive. 
Dbol - 20mg pre workout only.. this is common protocol. will also give me a little bit of needed aromatiztion and estrogen. YES despite what you read on most forums about preventing aromatization and estrogen, I actually take drugs to help increase these. I really don't want to a 'dry' cycle with anabolics that don't convert to estrogen and run AI's on top of that, and basically kill my gains and kill my HDL and IGF (plus I'm running Tren, and need so potent estrogen which Tren utilizes for increasing IGF levels.. Dbol is good in that it aromatizes into a very biological available form of estrogen. which with the tren will be very efficient at increasing IGF levels) 


well shit.. this post is long as hell and I've not even talked about different cycle ideas. I only gave one 'tweak' to my existing cycle, wtf

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## kelkel

How often are you using the pre-workout Dbol in cycles?

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## GearHeaded

> How often are you using the pre-workout Dbol in cycles?


pretty darn often. even off cycle I'll use it.. however never totally consistently unless dbol is part of my actual cycle. if its just pre workout only then it will be for a few weeks or so. then a week or two break. no real reason for the breaks other then not wanting to develop a mental dependency on something to be used as a pre workout... years back I remember getting to the gym for my workout and releasing I didn't take mw pw dbol. I got pissd and had a crappy workout. I know of guys that are the same way with insulin . if they don't pin 10+ iu of slin before they lift, they feel the whole session is a waste . this is total BS of course. but heck even nattys develop these mental dependencies with OTC pre workouts. so I take breaks all the time and miss dosings. when I do take it , I feel mental clarity and focus. but don't need to rely on anything for that, its just a 'perk'

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## guitarzan

Hey GH, what you think of dbol on a cut? I've had people tell me I was a idiot, you dont use that on a cut, but if the end goal is all you care about, and you drop it in time to lose the water weight, why not? The muscle and strength gains you quickly get, got to help burn calories in the run. I started a cut with it one time, but had to stop my cycle because of a injury.

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## GearHeaded

> Hey GH, what you think of dbol on a cut? I've had people tell me I was a idiot, you dont use that on a cut, but if the end goal is all you care about, and you drop it in time to lose the water weight, why not? The muscle and strength gains you quickly get, got to help burn calories in the run. I started a cut with it one time, but had to stop my cycle because of a injury.


it can definitely be used in a cut , if you know what your doing with your secondary compounds, ancillaries, and your diet.

heck.. Arnold ran Primo and Dbol (no test) for contest prep , and he turned out ok  :Smilie:

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## jolter604

> Hey GH, what you think of dbol on a cut? I've had people tell me I was a idiot, you dont use that on a cut, but if the end goal is all you care about, and you drop it in time to lose the water weight, why not? The muscle and strength gains you quickly get, got to help burn calories in the run. I started a cut with it one time, but had to stop my cycle because of a injury.


Man use any thing you want to cut its all about diet.
Some are just better then others for diffrent things.

----------


## jolter604

> so its about time to make some adjustments to the AAS 
> 
> this is what I've been doing recently 
> 
> 350mg Primo
> 500mg Deca 
> 300mg Tren 
> 200mg test (after a few weeks with no test)
> 
> ...


Nice stack and MG man

----------


## GearHeaded

UPDATE - I've been out of the gym 5-6 weeks. shit happens. as some of you know I had a fall down a flight of stairs and busted up my already surgically reconstructed ankle, also hurt my back thats had 4 previous surgeries and is being held together by a bunch of screws and bracket from the hips up. On top of that I got hit with family issues, legal issues, and financial issues all at the same time. refused to go back on pain pills to deal with the pain and inability to sleep, so been hitting up the whiskey instead.. not good.

time to wake the F up and deal with it , life happens. I can at least walk normally now and pain is subsiding. the legal, family, and financial issues I'll deal with, but can't be hitting up whisky every night in the process.
get my ass back to the gym and work around things. thats what I've always had to do. same with most of you guys as well.

so through all the stress, pain, turmoil, lack of sleep, lack of food, etc.. I've lost 25 pounds of muscle.

TRT dose of test will NOT help you maintain gains you make on gear guys. now granite in my situation not training of eating your going to lose a ton anyways, but just saying a TRT dose of test (for me was 150mg a week) is not supraphysiological, it only puts you in "normal'' ranges and normal ranges do not maintain muscle. in fact, test is one of the worst compounds to run during a "cruising" phase to maintain muscle imo (I can explain why in another post).


so what we going to do now.
EXPERIMENT again. thats what I do.

my experiment is this. I'm going to see how much of that 25 pounds I can gain back running only DRY compounds and long esters and very low doses.. now could I run wet bulking short ester compounds at high doses and "blow up" , sure. but we all know that.. I want to see what dry compounds at low doses will do.
and I'm NOT going to be running TEST at all.

heres what it is
500mg EQ
200mg Tren E
20mg day Var

whatever weight that I put back on is going to be real tissue retention/regeneration , and not a bunch of water weight. in fact with no test in there and running such dry compounds I may lose water weight at first. all the weight gained during this experiment will be muscle (and muscle glycogen), no bloat.

My diet - super clean (again no bloat), with a slight calorie surplus

My training - another experiment here. I'll be doing a high frequency full body training split. figured what better time then to try something very different for me.

workout 1 - Chest, front delts, quads
workout 2 - Back, traps, rear delts, hamstrings
workout 3 - Arms, side delts, abs, calves

^ all high rep metabolite style training
then repeat those same 3 workouts but with lower rep mechanical tension style workouts. then do it all again.

my intensity will be fairly low as I'll have to work around some injuries. so I'll have to focus on volume.



when life kicks you in the ass you gotta just come up with a game plan and do something. don't just sit around and wallow in the bullshit thats going on around you.

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## HoldMyBeer

> UPDATE - I've been out of the gym 5-6 weeks. shit happens. as some of you know I had a fall down a flight of stairs and busted up my already surgically reconstructed ankle, also hurt my back thats had 4 previous surgeries and is being held together by a bunch of screws and bracket from the hips up. On top of that I got hit with family issues, legal issues, and financial issues all at the same time. refused to go back on pain pills to deal with the pain and inability to sleep, so been hitting up the whiskey instead.. not good.
> 
> time to wake the F up and deal with it , life happens. I can at least walk normally now and pain is subsiding. the legal, family, and financial issues I'll deal with, but can't be hitting up whisky every night in the process.
> get my ass back to the gym and work around things. thats what I've always had to do. same with most of you guys as well.
> 
> so through all the stress, pain, turmoil, lack of sleep, lack of food, etc.. I've lost 25 pounds of muscle.
> 
> TRT dose of test will NOT help you maintain gains you make on gear guys. now granite in my situation not training of eating your going to lose a ton anyways, but just saying a TRT dose of test (for me was 150mg a week) is not supraphysiological, it only puts you in "normal'' ranges and normal ranges do not maintain muscle. in fact, test is one of the worst compounds to run during a "cruising" phase to maintain muscle imo (I can explain why in another post).
> 
> ...


Glad to have you back GH

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## kelkel

> heres what it is
> 500mg EQ
> 200mg Tren E
> 20mg day Var



TRT dose of test as well or no?

----------


## GearHeaded

> TRT dose of test as well or no?


no. want see what the anabolics can do by themselves. the tren will provide the androgen. only thing I'm concerned about with no test in there is estrogen. though the EQ will aromatize to a small degree at first, that will taper off, and with no test in there my e levels will go down (the eq can't aromatize near to the degree of test and keep up with it, so my e levels will go down). then of course DHT will go down as well (will be taking 10mg of creatine a day to help)

easy fix if it goes bad though, got test prop on hand.

----------


## balance

Excellent to see you back at it! This experiment sounds extremely interesting. I have a feeling its going to work really well for someone who has (recently) already had the tissue but I do wonder how such a low E2 run would work for supporting new growth. I know while its strongly not recommended I actually have seen some fairly successful anavar only runs so it must be possible to a degree. Im guessing your going to skip cardio with this experiment?


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## charger69

> no. want see what the anabolics can do by themselves. the tren will provide the androgen. only thing I'm concerned about with no test in there is estrogen. though the EQ will aromatize to a small degree at first, that will taper off, and with no test in there my e levels will go down (the eq can't aromatize near to the degree of test and keep up with it, so my e levels will go down). then of course DHT will go down as well (will be taking 10mg of creatine a day to help)
> 
> easy fix if it goes bad though, got test prop on hand.


Ill give you some of my weight!!! LOL


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## HoldMyBeer

> no. want see what the anabolics can do by themselves. the tren will provide the androgen. only thing I'm concerned about with no test in there is estrogen. though the EQ will aromatize to a small degree at first, that will taper off, and with no test in there my e levels will go down (the eq can't aromatize near to the degree of test and keep up with it, so my e levels will go down). then of course DHT will go down as well (will be taking 10mg of creatine a day to help)
> 
> easy fix if it goes bad though, got test prop on hand.


Is converting test to estro the only way we are able to produce it?

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## 99JT

good to see your back at it

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## GearHeaded

> Is converting test to estro the only way we are able to produce it?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk


no, but its the most 'natural' way. I could actually run a very low dose of Dbol , like 10mg per day just to get some estrogen (yet have much more anabolic support dose for dose compared to testosterone ). years ago, Dbol was used at 10mg per day as "TRT" (think early 60s)

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## Chrisp83TRT

> UPDATE - I've been out of the gym 5-6 weeks. shit happens. as some of you know I had a fall down a flight of stairs and busted up my already surgically reconstructed ankle, also hurt my back thats had 4 previous surgeries and is being held together by a bunch of screws and bracket from the hips up. On top of that I got hit with family issues, legal issues, and financial issues all at the same time. refused to go back on pain pills to deal with the pain and inability to sleep, so been hitting up the whiskey instead.. not good.
> 
> time to wake the F up and deal with it , life happens. I can at least walk normally now and pain is subsiding. the legal, family, and financial issues I'll deal with, but can't be hitting up whisky every night in the process.
> get my ass back to the gym and work around things. thats what I've always had to do. same with most of you guys as well.
> 
> so through all the stress, pain, turmoil, lack of sleep, lack of food, etc.. I've lost 25 pounds of muscle.
> 
> TRT dose of test will NOT help you maintain gains you make on gear guys. now granite in my situation not training of eating your going to lose a ton anyways, but just saying a TRT dose of test (for me was 150mg a week) is not supraphysiological, it only puts you in "normal'' ranges and normal ranges do not maintain muscle. in fact, test is one of the worst compounds to run during a "cruising" phase to maintain muscle imo (I can explain why in another post).
> 
> ...


Damn gear, I'm sorry to hear all of this. Glad to see you up and up despite what you've been going through.

Hope things progress in the right direction and will be following this cycle and training and im rooting for you man. 

Stay awesome GH 

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## Family_guy

> UPDATE - I've been out of the gym 5-6 weeks. shit happens. as some of you know I had a fall down a flight of stairs and busted up my already surgically reconstructed ankle, also hurt my back thats had 4 previous surgeries and is being held together by a bunch of screws and bracket from the hips up. On top of that I got hit with family issues, legal issues, and financial issues all at the same time. refused to go back on pain pills to deal with the pain and inability to sleep, so been hitting up the whiskey instead.. not good.
> 
> time to wake the F up and deal with it , life happens. I can at least walk normally now and pain is subsiding. the legal, family, and financial issues I'll deal with, but can't be hitting up whisky every night in the process.
> get my ass back to the gym and work around things. thats what I've always had to do. same with most of you guys as well.
> 
> so through all the stress, pain, turmoil, lack of sleep, lack of food, etc.. I've lost 25 pounds of muscle.
> 
> TRT dose of test will NOT help you maintain gains you make on gear guys. now granite in my situation not training of eating your going to lose a ton anyways, but just saying a TRT dose of test (for me was 150mg a week) is not supraphysiological, it only puts you in "normal'' ranges and normal ranges do not maintain muscle. in fact, test is one of the worst compounds to run during a "cruising" phase to maintain muscle imo (I can explain why in another post).
> 
> ...


Shit man. Sorry to hear about all that. Glad you kicked your self in the ass and got up and going again and off the bottle! 

I would love to hear why you think Test isn’t a great option for maintain muscle while cruising

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## GearHeaded

> I would love to hear why you think Test isn’t a great option for maintain muscle while cruising


ok heres the reasons

when going into a cruise phase your goal should be to lower dosages dramatically (to improve health markers) and let your androgen receptors re-senstize. A secondary reason is to let estrogen levels come down some and let those receptors re-senstize. so you need to come off androgens and estrogen essentially.

well what is Testosterone , its NOT an anabolic steroid , its an androgen that also has a great propensity to estrogen conversion . two things we are trying to get away from.
we also want to get into much lower dosages then being on cycle. Well test Mg per Mg (compared to most steroids ) is very weak anabolically and you have or run high dosages to equal equivalent dosages of other drugs. and again, its primarily an androgen. for every 100mg of anabolic load that you want your going to get at least 100mg androgenic load along with that (plus the estrogen we are trying to re-senstize from as well).

so to get a measly 500mg of Anabolic load to maintain muscle mass while cruising, with test you need to run at least 500mg to do that (I'd argue even more being test converts a lot to estrogen and converts a lot to the non anabolic androgen DHT , so with 500mg of test you don't even get that much actual test, but thats a whole other argument).
and again with the 500mg of test your getting a whole lot of androgen load , which is the very thing we are trying to limit and stay away from during a cruising phase.

now lets look at some actual anabolic steroids . how about a very mild one like Var. well its up to 6 times as anabolic as test is, with virtually zero androgen load.. so a measly 100mg of Var per week (very very low dose) is as anabolic as 500mg of test, yet has no estrogen and not androgen load. thats exactly what we want when cruising. HIGH anabolic load (which is what maintains muscle) and low estrogen conversion.
Or look at primobolan . even though on paper its only as anabolic as test, its benefit is that its not androgenic or estrogenic. you can cruise on 500mg of primo per week, get all the anabolic benefits, and reset the things your trying to reset.
I could give more examples. 

it really is the androgen load of cycles that we are trying to get away from and re-senstive while cruising.. running androgens makes no sense to use as a primary compound to cruise on. again test is a pure androgen. 

something like primo or var you can run low dose year round and never really de-senstize to it. its merely going to keep protein synthesis high and nitrogen retention high the whole time your on it and thus keep muscle retention high.
thats what we are after when cruising. maintaining/retaining muscle while allowing various other factors to re-sensitze.


I generally recommend running a low TRT dose of test, 150mg per week.. then cruise on an anabolic steroid. like 300mg per week of Primo or EQ.
stay away from androgens and things that convert to estrogen to allow your body to reset during the cruise phase.

for experienced AAS users the 'sweet spot' for testosterone to really be anabolic on its own is around 1000-1200 mg per week.. (unless combined with other AAS). thats not acceptable as a low dosage cruise and is going to be providing way way to much androgen load to ever re-senstize. thats being on cycle , not a cruise phase.

Stick to the anabolics instead.

my 2 cents

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## GearHeaded

> Excellent to see you back at it! This experiment sounds extremely interesting. I have a feeling it’s going to work really well for someone who has (recently) already had the tissue but I do wonder how such a low E2 run would work for supporting new growth. I know while it’s strongly not recommended I actually have seen some fairly successful anavar only runs so it must be possible to a degree. I’m guessing your going to skip cardio with this experiment?


theres no doubt in my mind that using test just to get more estrogen conversion would help myself, or anyone grow better. theres been countless anecdotal evidence to support this, as well as plenty of studies done showing that combining high levels of estrogen when androgens (AAS) are administered equals much better growth.

so I already know this. but I'm an "experimenter". I need to try things out that I don't know yet.. really I often times don't run the most optimal cycles for myself. I spend lots of time experimenting. the reason for this is that I'm in my 40s, I've had multiple surgeries and health issues, etc.. and I'm never going to be a great bodybuilder. my days have past. BUT I can experiment and learn and make myself a much better coach.

so I'd rather run cycles and experiment with things that better enlighten my knowledge more then simply transform my physique. 
 :Smilie:  I can never pass my physique along to other people, however I can pass my knowledge and experiences along to others and help them

as for cardio. I never "don't" do cardio.. I feel when you get into your late 30s or so, cholesterol and cardiac risks goes up , having a habit of cardio (even daily) has many health benefits.
heres an experiment.. have elevated cholesterol ? well don't change your diet or your supplements, just simply do 40 mins of fasted cardio every day for 6 weeks straight and go get your blood work done and lets see if those numbers have dropped. its possible they will.

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## charger69

I know that any AAS can be used for gain or cutting, however I dont understand why you are using dry compounds. I use these for cutting. Your workout combo also surprises me. This is something that I would use for cutting however your trying to gain weight. 
Without a test base, your free T is going to plummet as well as your total T. 


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## jolter604

> ok heres the reasons
> 
> when going into a cruise phase your goal should be to lower dosages dramatically (to improve health markers) and let your androgen receptors re-senstize. A secondary reason is to let estrogen levels come down some and let those receptors re-senstize. so you need to come off androgens and estrogen essentially.
> 
> well what is Testosterone , its NOT an anabolic steroid , its an androgen that also has a great propensity to estrogen conversion . two things we are trying to get away from.
> we also want to get into much lower dosages then being on cycle. Well test Mg per Mg (compared to most steroids ) is very weak anabolically and you have or run high dosages to equal equivalent dosages of other drugs. and again, its primarily an androgen. for every 100mg of anabolic load that you want your going to get at least 100mg androgenic load along with that (plus the estrogen we are trying to re-senstize from as well).
> 
> so to get a measly 500mg of Anabolic load to maintain muscle mass while cruising, with test you need to run at least 500mg to do that (I'd argue even more being test converts a lot to estrogen and converts a lot to the non anabolic androgen DHT , so with 500mg of test you don't even get that much actual test, but thats a whole other argument).
> and again with the 500mg of test your getting a whole lot of androgen load , which is the very thing we are trying to limit and stay away from during a cruising phase.
> ...


What about 125mg test for trt and 10mg anavar pre workout?
Or would be to much test?

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## GearHeaded

> I know that any AAS can be used for gain or cutting, however I don’t understand why you are using dry compounds. I use these for cutting. Your workout combo also surprises me. This is something that I would use for cutting however your trying to gain weight. 
> Without a test base, your free T is going to plummet as well as your total T.


well a lot of the things we know come down from others as well as is speculation .. do we ever really really test these things on ourself. much of the time we don't and we just accept what we think is common practice.
I'd rather do things different and find out for myself then go by an online steroid profile which has the soul purpose of selling ad space then it does to actually teach anyone the truth about the steroid its writing about.
most sites that teach about AAS that have ads on them, just stay away their usually BS. the real truth about AAS is often found in old medical journals and articles (no ads) written for the medical community (not the steroid community)
anyhow, thats a rant in itself.

to get to the questions posed..
so the reason I'm only running dry compounds is to test out how well they work at actually regenerating muscle tissue. we already know that wet compounds work great at adding size and muscle fullness.. so why should I not take this perfect opportunity and just see how well dry compounds work.

my workout split - again we all know that hitting a single muscle group hard and then letting it recover is ideal for growth. I don't need to try out what I already know.. so what I'm going to do is use the blood flow / pump method and see how well that works. I don't think at this stage I really need to tear apart and break down muscle tissue to grow. All I need to do is drive as much blood and nutrients into the muscle as possible and as OFTEN as possible to help regenerate and restore muscle tissue. the more blood I can pump the more nutrients I can bring in the better, and the more muscle groups I can hit, as often as possible, the quicker the regeneration should occur.
at this stage if I only hit one muscle group , like chest, once per week, the growth process would take way longer. again I'm not that far removed from where I was (only 6 weeks).. if I can get blood and nutrients into my chest, and multiple other body parts a whole bunch of times per week, then the faster things should happen.

regarding free T crashing with no test. yes this is likely to happen.. but whats that going to really do in this case ? a small amount of free T from a natty dose of test doesn't build muscle anyhow.. I've got 500mg of a test derivative, EQ, to give me plenty of anabolic load (and bind to androgen receptors at a very fast rate). 200mg of Tren that will act as androgenic as 1000mg of test, and anavar lowering SHBG and freeing up everything to bind to receptors without being gobbled up by SHBG.. do I really need a minisucule amount of free T to really do anything for me?

the estrogen is the only thing I'm worried about.. and as I said above I can just throw in 10mg of Dbol per day to get some estrogen.


I'm really just looking to experiment right now. lets see what can be learned . I don't need to repeat things I already know works for dozens of guys.
eg., I know running a TRT dose of test with your cycles works great for pretty much everyone .. lets see what happens with no test in this scenario. we all can learn a something from it I bet  :Smilie:

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## GearHeaded

> What about 125mg test for trt and 10mg anavar pre workout?
> Or would be to much test?


no thats not too much test by any means.. thats going to give you the same levels that your neighbor who is totally natural has. its going to give your normal T levels, which are not at all high enough to de-senstize you or provide too much androgen load.
as for the VAR, being we are after mainly muscle retention in a cruise phase, would be best to run it at about 20mg per day (140 per week) and just run it consistently daily.

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## Family_guy

> well a lot of the things we know come down from others as well as is speculation .. do we ever really really test these things on ourself. much of the time we don't and we just accept what we think is common practice.
> I'd rather do things different and find out for myself then go by an online steroid profile which has the soul purpose of selling ad space then it does to actually teach anyone the truth about the steroid its writing about.
> most sites that teach about AAS that have ads on them, just stay away their usually BS. the real truth about AAS is often found in old medical journals and articles (no ads) written for the medical community (not the steroid community)
> anyhow, thats a rant in itself.
> 
> to get to the questions posed..
> so the reason I'm only running dry compounds is to test out how well they work at actually regenerating muscle tissue. we already know that wet compounds work great at adding size and muscle fullness.. so why should I not take this perfect opportunity and just see how well dry compounds work.
> 
> my workout split - again we all know that hitting a single muscle group hard and then letting it recover is ideal for growth. I don't need to try out what I already know.. so what I'm going to do is use the blood flow / pump method and see how well that works. I don't think at this stage I really need to tear apart and break down muscle tissue to grow. All I need to do is drive as much blood and nutrients into the muscle as possible and as OFTEN as possible to help regenerate and restore muscle tissue. the more blood I can pump the more nutrients I can bring in the better, and the more muscle groups I can hit, as often as possible, the quicker the regeneration should occur.
> ...


This is very exciting to me! Everyone says “can’t run anything without test base!!!!!” Arnold did it without test right? I’m very excited to see your results gear!

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## jolter604

> no thats not too much test by any means.. thats going to give you the same levels that your neighbor who is totally natural has. its going to give your normal T levels, which are not at all high enough to de-senstize you or provide too much androgen load.
> as for the VAR, being we are after mainly muscle retention in a cruise phase, would be best to run it at about 20mg per day (140 per week) and just run it consistently daily.


Thsnks for replying man this is my first trt and i want to do it right so ehrn i jump back on i maintained size and can gain more when i get on without burning out my receptors.
Some say 200 mg test butni wanted to start low 
And prevent my rbc from going threw the roof.

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## GearHeaded

> Thsnks for replying man this is my first trt and i want to do it right so ehrn i jump back on i maintained size and can gain more when i get on without burning out my receptors.
> Some say 200 mg test butni wanted to start low 
> And prevent my rbc from going threw the roof.


yeah adding an anabolic like Var or primo to your TRT 'cruise' phase is the best way to go to maintain gains made on cycle..

adding in a synergestic non AAS growth factor stack on top of that can even help make gains while off cycle.. like a HGH, T4, Clen , Insulin , combo. can make gains off of that and its not AAS and will allow you to be 'off cycle' and resetting ARs and health factors while still growing.
see here
https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...-bridging.html

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## Proximal

Glad to have you back GH!

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## Family_guy

> yeah adding an anabolic like Var or primo to your TRT 'cruise' phase is the best way to go to maintain gains made on cycle..
> 
> adding in a synergestic non AAS growth factor stack on top of that can even help make gains while off cycle.. like a HGH, T4, Clen , Insulin , combo. can make gains off of that and its not AAS and will allow you to be 'off cycle' and resetting ARs and health factors while still growing.
> see here
> https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...-bridging.html


So I was reading that other thread about cycle bridging. Very interesting.

I have a question about doing just the one pct per year. I know we’ve talked briefly about this but could you give an example of what that would look like for someone like me who doesn’t want to TRT yet but also doesn’t want to just do a basic 12 week cycle.

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## Obs

> yeah adding an anabolic like Var or primo to your TRT 'cruise' phase is the best way to go to maintain gains made on cycle..
> 
> adding in a synergestic non AAS growth factor stack on top of that can even help make gains while off cycle.. like a HGH, T4, Clen , Insulin , combo. can make gains off of that and its not AAS and will allow you to be 'off cycle' and resetting ARs and health factors while still growing.
> see here
> https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...-bridging.html


I would like to hear your thoughs on hgh more. 
I have never used it but want to run 6iu ed for a year of so. Cost is all that stops me

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## i_SLAM_cougars

> Cost is all that stops me


I hear that...

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## HoldMyBeer

> I would like to hear your thoughs on hgh more. 
> I have never used it but want to run 6iu ed for a year of so. Cost is all that stops me


As for the cost factor, studies have shown once igf levels are saturated, it doesn't take daily dosing to keep it there. 
So running HGH daily for 10 days to raise it, then it can be taken EOD to maintain

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## charger69

I found about 50 ius in my fridge of GH (growth hormone ). I know GH is long term, is there anyway that I can use this and have it make a difference? If not Ilo get rid of it. 


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## HoldMyBeer

> I found about 50 ius in my fridge of GH (growth hormone ). I know GH is long term, is there anyway that I can use this and have it make a difference? If not Ilo get rid of it. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As I mentioned to Obs, it takes 7-10 days of daily use to saturate igf levels, then you can switch to EOD to maintain them
So if you're going to do 5iu/day, then the whole 50 will just be used to get to the saturation point. If you're doing 2.5, you will have 20 days of getting the max benefit from it. That is also the time period where I usually retain a bunch of water and 2.5 probably won't do much besides improve recovery and metabolism.
I would just save it and add it to the end of the next run of GH, unless you don't play on ever running it again.
Just my opinion from what little I have learned about it. 

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## Family_guy

> I found about 50 iu’s in my fridge of GH (growth hormone ). I know GH is long term, is there anyway that I can use this and have it make a difference? If not I’lo get rid of it. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you don’t want it I’ll take it  :Wink:

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## 99JT

> ok heres the reasons
> 
> when going into a cruise phase your goal should be to lower dosages dramatically (to improve health markers) and let your androgen receptors re-senstize. A secondary reason is to let estrogen levels come down some and let those receptors re-senstize. so you need to come off androgens and estrogen essentially.
> 
> well what is Testosterone , its NOT an anabolic steroid , its an androgen that also has a great propensity to estrogen conversion . two things we are trying to get away from.
> we also want to get into much lower dosages then being on cycle. Well test Mg per Mg (compared to most steroids ) is very weak anabolically and you have or run high dosages to equal equivalent dosages of other drugs. and again, its primarily an androgen. for every 100mg of anabolic load that you want your going to get at least 100mg androgenic load along with that (plus the estrogen we are trying to re-senstize from as well).
> 
> so to get a measly 500mg of Anabolic load to maintain muscle mass while cruising, with test you need to run at least 500mg to do that (I'd argue even more being test converts a lot to estrogen and converts a lot to the non anabolic androgen DHT , so with 500mg of test you don't even get that much actual test, but thats a whole other argument).
> and again with the 500mg of test your getting a whole lot of androgen load , which is the very thing we are trying to limit and stay away from during a cruising phase.
> ...


 I've got some 25mg capsules of var would it be ok running that EOD along with 175mg/wk test?

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## GearHeaded

> I would like to hear your thoughs on hgh more. 
> I have never used it but want to run 6iu ed for a year of so. Cost is all that stops me


if your goal is to put on 15 pounds of muscle and get jacked.. which I'm guessing it is, cause I've helped plenty of people use low dose HGH for lipolytic effects and it works like a charm... but to get jacked, its not so simple as running 6iu every single day and just keeping feeding that with $..
HGH to get lean and full is easy.. hgh to get big is a little different and you can NOT do it without insulin . you try to get big using HGH and you will end up diabetic. but it you use the right protocols and use HGH's effect on glucose metabolism and fueling that glucose for growth only, and you can grow like a weed and safely .

again you can't just take HGH and expect to grow, it doesn't work that way (at least for muscle).. can you get lean using HGH, yes for sure.. but real muscle growth is hard and it has to be tied into glucose metabolism and protein synthesis to work.
a bolus dose of HGH a few times per week in the right setting is my strategy. not daily use of HGH.. anyhow I can clarify later

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## Obs

> if your goal is to put on 15 pounds of muscle and get jacked.. which I'm guessing it is, cause I've helped plenty of people use low dose HGH for lipolytic effects and it works like a charm... but to get jacked, its not so simple as running 6iu every single day and just keeping feeding that with $..
> HGH to get lean and full is easy.. hgh to get big is a little different and you can NOT do it without insulin . you try to get big using HGH and you will end up diabetic. but it you use the right protocols and use HGH's effect on glucose metabolism and fueling that glucose for growth only, and you can grow like a weed and safely .
> 
> again you can't just take HGH and expect to grow, it doesn't work that way (at least for muscle).. can you get lean using HGH, yes for sure.. but real muscle growth is hard and it has to be tied into glucose metabolism and protein synthesis to work.
> a bolus dose of HGH a few times per week in the right setting is my strategy. not daily use of HGH.. anyhow I can clarify later


I am a slin fan so that sounds great.

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## HoldMyBeer

> I am a slin fan so that sounds great.


Have you found slin makes you lethargic for the next 4-6 hours (usually the same amount of time the slin is active for) after taking it regardless of how many carbs you consume?

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## HoldMyBeer

> if your goal is to put on 15 pounds of muscle and get jacked.. which I'm guessing it is, cause I've helped plenty of people use low dose HGH for lipolytic effects and it works like a charm... but to get jacked, its not so simple as running 6iu every single day and just keeping feeding that with $..
> HGH to get lean and full is easy.. hgh to get big is a little different and you can NOT do it without insulin . you try to get big using HGH and you will end up diabetic. but it you use the right protocols and use HGH's effect on glucose metabolism and fueling that glucose for growth only, and you can grow like a weed and safely .
> 
> again you can't just take HGH and expect to grow, it doesn't work that way (at least for muscle).. can you get lean using HGH, yes for sure.. but real muscle growth is hard and it has to be tied into glucose metabolism and protein synthesis to work.
> a bolus dose of HGH a few times per week in the right setting is my strategy. not daily use of HGH.. anyhow I can clarify later


I was listening to Dave Crossland say the other day that hGH doesn't actually build muscle directly, and that's the reason it's not that great at it. Which is counterintuitive given "growth" is in the name. It helps you recover better (and another action or two I forget what, maybe water retention and glycogen storage in the muscle?), which leads to better workouts, which leads to indirect muscle growth. Which coincides with that you are saying about easy to use to get full and lean, but hard to build muscle. If I am not misremembering?

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## Obs

> Have you found slin makes you lethargic for the next 4-6 hours (usually the same amount of time the slin is active for) after taking it regardless of how many carbs you consume?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk


Pretty much

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## charger69

> if your goal is to put on 15 pounds of muscle and get jacked.. which I'm guessing it is, cause I've helped plenty of people use low dose HGH for lipolytic effects and it works like a charm... but to get jacked, its not so simple as running 6iu every single day and just keeping feeding that with $..
> HGH to get lean and full is easy.. hgh to get big is a little different and you can NOT do it without insulin . you try to get big using HGH and you will end up diabetic. but it you use the right protocols and use HGH's effect on glucose metabolism and fueling that glucose for growth only, and you can grow like a weed and safely .
> 
> again you can't just take HGH and expect to grow, it doesn't work that way (at least for muscle).. can you get lean using HGH, yes for sure.. but real muscle growth is hard and it has to be tied into glucose metabolism and protein synthesis to work.
> a bolus dose of HGH a few times per week in the right setting is my strategy. not daily use of HGH.. anyhow I can clarify later


If HGH makes you lean, why did it cause major water retention? I took HGH 2 weeks out from a comp and gained 8 lbs of water. I know it was water because I lowered calories below 1000 and still was gaining weight while trying to figure out what was happening. 


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## charger69

We are due for an update on the expirement. I am very interested to see if my expectation are real. 


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## HoldMyBeer

> If HGH makes you lean, why did it cause major water retention? I took HGH 2 weeks out from a comp and gained 8 lbs of water. I know it was water because I lowered calories below 1000 and still was gaining weight while trying to figure out what was happening. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To my knowledge you only retain water for the first 3-4 weeks

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## GearHeaded

> If HGH makes you lean, why did it cause major water retention? I took HGH 2 weeks out from a comp and gained 8 lbs of water. I know it was water because I lowered calories below 1000 and still was gaining weight while trying to figure out what was happening.


ok so fat loss and water retention are two completely different and un-related things. you can be 30% body fat and be very dry and retain little water, or you can be a stage ready bodybuilder at 4% body fat and end up retaining so much water it puts you in the hospital.. in fact I know of guys who have ended up in the hospital a few days after their show because they rebounded so hard with water retention that they got cardiac edema (even though they were super lean).
this is also why I don't advise guys in contest prep attempt to dry out too early. there is no point in being dry 5 weeks out from a show.. you only need to focus on getting lean, NOT getting dry. you only need to by dry on show day. getting dry too early is going to make your body fight you on show day as it tries to maintain homeostasis (its hard to get 'dryer' when you've been somewhat dry for weeks.. its much better to be hydrated and 'wet' the whole contest prep and then dry out and trick the body at the very end).

now for HGH and its fat burning properties and its ability to lean you out.

a majority of people have no clue how HGH works at all. they think its just a magic hormone that repairs and builds cells.. well all that repair and cell building processes requires lots of ENERGY. it doesn't just happen from nothing. HGH kinda "knows this" and so its going to work from two different fronts. the first thing its going to do is provide your body with the raw material and energy it needs to repair and build cells.
now what does your body use for energy ? Fat and Glucose... what happens when you take HGH and you were to immediately test your blood. well your blood glucose levels are going to be greatly elevated and so are your blood triglycerides. thats because the HGH is causing the dumping of these two energy sources into the blood stream as an immediate source of energy available for the cell building and repairing process.

so in regards to fat loss . HGH is directly lipolytic. it frees fat from fat cells and makes that fat available to be oxidized for energy. thats how HGH makes you lean.. note: its NOT a fat burner though. theres a difference between liberating fatty acids from storage and the actual burning of fat by the mitochondria of a cell. HGH only liberates the fat, it does not directly burn it.
but if you took HGH fasted and did fasted cardio, the fat that HGH liberated into the blood stream is then available to be burned up as energy.
thats why I highly recommend HGH first thing in AM with fasted cardio..

now in regards to blood sugar and HGH. as stated already HGH frees up fat into the blood stream for energy and it also frees up glucose into the blood stream for energy. again, HGH has to free up energy first, because the repairing and building of cells is an energy demanding task.
but people take HGH and they see they have high blood sugar levels from it. they automatically think "oh no I'm getting insulin resistant" "I'm getting diabetes" .. no thats not whats going on. your blood sugars are not high because hgh causes you to be insulin resistant, its high because of what I explained about HGH needing the energy dumped into the blood, so glucose that is stored is in the blood now and thus your blood sugar levels are going to be higher . you really think one shot of HGH is going to cause insulin resistance . no. your blood sugar is high cause thats how HGH works . it dumps both fat and glucose into the blood so there is energy available for hgh to do the building and repairing processes.

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## GearHeaded

> I was listening to Dave Crossland say the other day that hGH doesn't actually build muscle directly, and that's the reason it's not that great at it. Which is counterintuitive given "growth" is in the name. It helps you recover better (and another action or two I forget what, maybe water retention and glycogen storage in the muscle?), which leads to better workouts, which leads to indirect muscle growth. Which coincides with that you are saying about easy to use to get full and lean, but hard to build muscle. If I am not misremembering?


ok so Dave is partially right here.. HGH is anabolic in soft tissue (ie, non contractile tissue, like tendons) but its not directly anabolic for muscle hypertrophy. it is however very anabolic indirectly. muscle tissue responds to IGF and MGF , and not directly to HGH.. but HGH increases both of those (via hepatic IGF production, where when both HGH and Insulin are present in the blood stream the liver takes this synergy and upregulates the production of IGF). IGF directly builds and repairs muscle tissue.
so the HGH itself is only repairing soft tissues, but a by product of HGH is repairing muscle tissue. so your going to build more muscle over all with high levels of HGH, because the raw material is then there as compared to having low levels of HGH.

the idea of water retention, better recovery, glycogen storage, etc.. is all very secondary to the above which is a bit more direct.

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## GearHeaded

> I would like to hear your thoughs on hgh more. 
> I have never used it but want to run 6iu ed for a year of so. Cost is all that stops me


so standard all around basic protocol for HGH use is simply 4iu per day taken in the morning every single day. if fat loss is your main goal then take 2iu with fasted cardio and then another 2iu later in the day.

IF getting huge is your number one goal. then this is what I recommend. 4-5 days per week on workout days.. about 1 hour before your workout take a large bolus dose of HGH, 8-10iu (with a carb meal). pre workout take 10iu of slin. intra workout drink 50g of carbs, 15g of EAAs, 5g creatine, 5g glycerol, teaspoon of salt. then with your post workout meal take in 20iu of slin with 100+ g of carbs from potatoes (potatoes are super high in potassium and potassium is very synergestic with insulin and salt.. the potassium "pump" is going to drive all that shit in your blood stream into the muscle cells).

no need to take HGH on your off days.. the large bolus dose of HGH in the above scenario is going to provide a super compensating effect in IGF output along with the insulin and the IGF signaling we will be generating during the workout.

remember, there are IGF receptors all over your body, including in your intestines and the smooth muscles of the stomach.. you want your IGF to spike when IGF in muscle tissue signaling is high . you don't want IGF super high all the time and it begin to build the smooth muscle of the intestinal track and cause stomach growth (intestinal muscle IS muscle and IGF will cause it to grow, especially when that muscle is working hard all the time because of all the calories your eating)...

so my above strategy is based on timing for IGF signaling in muscle tissue and only using large amounts of HGH during that exact time and way only, to avoid spill over and stomach growth.

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## GearHeaded

> We are due for an update on the expirement. I am very interested to see if my expectation are real.


UPDATE-

so I have not been on this new cycle very long, and again I'm taking long esters (EQ and Tren E).. but I have not injected Test in a few weeks. so my test levels have dropped off to near nothing by now. however, I feel just fine. libido has actually picked up (this is the tren kicking in).
I did not add in the VAR like I had planned. but starting yesterday I did add in 20mg of Dbol . This is just to get some estrogen.

the interesting thing about running no test at all while I start this blast is that I have no back acne like I usually get when I blast. we shall see if it stays this way with no test in this cycle. 

body weight - I'm up 6 pounds since starting. my goal is to be up 30 pounds from just this cycle (regain the 25 I lost and add 5). I will add in some 'bulking' compounds at the end like NPP, Deca , Anadrol . but want to see how far this little bit of EQ and Tren gets me first. 

I did add in 75mcg of T4 per day.. the reason for this is I think my metabolism slowed down quite a bit from that long phase of barely eating, plus Tren is thyroid suppressive. so I'm boosting the metabolism NOT for fat loss, but for nutrient partitioning and assimilation. 

I was thinking of adding in 25mg of MK677 mainly for the appetite increase.. I'm a bit hesitant to do this though mainly because I know its going to make me retain a bit of water, which is a good thing for growth, but I kinda wanted to see how far I can get with a 'dry' bulk.

insulin , 10-30iu per day.
10iu in the morning with breakfast
5-10iu pre workout
10-15iu post workout

as my weight goes up and my calories go up my insulin use will also go up.. another reason I want to add in the MK677 here is to get the synergetic effects with the insulin and the T4 usage. I'll get a greater IGF increase and more overall growth factors happening 


as for the diet -- I've switched from rice and potatos as my main carb sources to adding in quite a bit of pasta. red meat and pasta are my main food sources right now. point there is calorie density.. I'm only eating 4-5 meals per day so I want the cals of those meals to be as dense as possible.. as I progress the number of meals will go up.

heres an example of why I'm going with pasta instead of rice as my main carb source.. last night for dinner was 8oz of Cod. which is like 50g of protein, now if I would of just had a cup of rice with that I'd simply be adding 50g of carbs. so instead I had the cod with an entire box of Mac and cheese (the Mac was a total of 141g of carbs, 27g of protein, and only 9g of fat for a total of 750 cals). so that pasta addition instead of the rice made that meal substantially more macro and cal dense.


Training -- frickin loving these full body workouts. much different then what I've done in the past (even though I've written at least 50+ different full body training programs for clients over the years, I've rarely used them myself). I did have a program I did in the past that was an upper/lower split for the week but had one day of the week that was a full body "pump" and "recovery" day.. but never really did full body for every single workout that I do.
we'll see if the results come from it or not. I'm mainly doing more blood volume based training and lots of RIR based training. I'm rarely going heavy or to failure right now.

one thing for sure I've learned here is this quote "STRENGTH IS NOT LOYAL" .. strength is not loyal to anyone at all. its not there by your side and something you can depend on.. nope, you have to work for it every single day. if you step away for even a short time, strength is gone. it does not stay with you, its not loyal to you, its something you have to earn daily.

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## charger69

> UPDATE-
> 
> so I have not been on this new cycle very long, and again I'm taking long esters (EQ and Tren E).. but I have not injected Test in a few weeks. so my test levels have dropped off to near nothing by now. however, I feel just fine. libido has actually picked up (this is the tren kicking in).
> I did not add in the VAR like I had planned. but starting yesterday I did add in 20mg of Dbol . This is just to get some estrogen.
> 
> the interesting thing about running no test at all while I start this blast is that I have no back acne like I usually get when I blast. we shall see if it stays this way with no test in this cycle. 
> 
> body weight - I'm up 6 pounds since starting. my goal is to be up 30 pounds from just this cycle (regain the 25 I lost and add 5). I will add in some 'bulking' compounds at the end like NPP, Deca , Anadrol . but want to see how far this little bit of EQ and Tren gets me first. 
> 
> ...


Thanks!


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## GearHeaded

Matt Porter -- RIP... fucking sucks!
l. 
he is the real deal and an awesome coach.. (edit delete the rest the whole post)

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## GearHeaded

here is an interesting tid bit - so I have digestive issues and will do occasional fasting just to reset my gut. this generally consists of having only 1 meal in a 48 hour period. as you'd expect I normally drop a pound or two when doing this, which comes right back once I start the diet up again.

Well I'm on my second day of fasting and to my surprise I'm up 3 pounds. wtf. how does that happen.. the only thing I can think of that I did differently is that I just added in the Balkan Dbol . my last meal was a very carb heavy meal. perhaps it helped partition the carbs and fill out some glycogen stores. idk.. I've never fasted and ended up 3 pounds heavier then before the fast began. weird

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## KrossOut

> here is an interesting tid bit - so I have digestive issues and will do occasional fasting just to reset my gut. this generally consists of having only 1 meal in a 48 hour period. as you'd expect I normally drop a pound or two when doing this, which comes right back once I start the diet up again.
> 
> Well I'm on my second day of fasting and to my surprise I'm up 3 pounds. wtf. how does that happen.. the only thing I can think of that I did differently is that I just added in the Balkan Dbol. my last meal was a very carb heavy meal. perhaps it helped partition the carbs and fill out some glycogen stores. idk.. I've never fasted and ended up 3 pounds heavier then before the fast began. weird


Or you might have been dehydrated the first day and then drank enough water to rehydrate during your fast?


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## charger69

> Or you might have been dehydrated the first day and then drank enough water to rehydrate during your fast?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My first thought was water retention.


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## GearHeaded

> Or you might have been dehydrated the first day and then drank enough water to rehydrate during your fast?


excellent point .. however in my situation it was just the opposite. I trained 4 days in a row this week and I always super hydrate, carb load, and drink electrolytes on training days. so on Friday (the last day I trained) I was super hydrated. then going into this weekend I began my fast. this weekend not eating I spent a lot of the day just sipping on coffee. then going outside and spending lots of time in the sun. really not drinking much water at all. so if anything I'm actually dehydrated more now then I was a few days ago.
thats why it seems weird to of jumped up 3 pounds like that out of no where

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## GearHeaded

> My first thought was water retention.


from the Dbol already ?
if I been fasting, drinking little water, sipping on mainly coffee,, I should be losing water weight if anything. idk

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## i_SLAM_cougars

Batteries in the scale going out? Malfunction of some type?

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## GearHeaded

> Batteries in the scale going out? Malfunction of some type?


so your saying maybe the wife swiped batteries out of the scale with her vibe cause her vibe was running weak ? its possible 

I'm pretty OCD about tracking my weight.. same scale, same time of day (after several cups of coffee and a meal but before I begin chugging water). have used same scale for about 6 years now and always have batteries. its been fairly accurate and never fluky or giving weird numbers.
if I step on it and it reads 210.8, I get off and back on it will go right back to 210.8 and not some other number

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## charger69

> so your saying maybe the wife swiped batteries out of the scale with her vibe cause her vibe was running weak ? its possible 
> 
> I'm pretty OCD about tracking my weight.. same scale, same time of day (after several cups of coffee and a meal but before I begin chugging water). have used same scale for about 6 years now and always have batteries. its been fairly accurate and never fluky or giving weird numbers.
> if I step on it and it reads 210.8, I get off and back on it will go right back to 210.8 and not some other number


Oh come on GH... it must give bodyfat and graphs also!


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## GearHeaded

> Oh come on GH... it must give bodyfat and graphs also!


your talking about the wife's vibrator right ? you want to see the orgasms chart and graphs tracking climax and P contractions  :Smilie:

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## charger69

> your talking about the wife's vibrator right ? you want to see the orgasms chart and graphs tracking climax and P contractions


LMAO- p contractions. 


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## Fastteck

pm sent

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## HoldMyBeer

> so your saying maybe the wife swiped batteries out of the scale with her vibe cause her vibe was running weak ? its possible 
> 
> I'm pretty OCD about tracking my weight.. same scale, same time of day (after several cups of coffee and a meal but before I begin chugging water). have used same scale for about 6 years now and always have batteries. its been fairly accurate and never fluky or giving weird numbers.
> if I step on it and it reads 210.8, I get off and back on it will go right back to 210.8 and not some other number


Why not first thing when you wake up? Take the liquid and food out of the equation. Stomach should be empty

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## HoldMyBeer

> pm sent


Regarding p contractions?

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## GearHeaded

No Testosterone update -

so its been a pretty long time since I've had optimal or supra-physioligical levels of test in my system. Test is definitely completely out of my system. this latest cycle I just started (very conservative low dose) does not include any test. 

so how do I feel with just a tiny bit of tren and some EQ with no Test ?

the basics.. um yeah libido and all that stuff is functioning at top notch capacity (you can find me on porn hub banging hot Latinas if you need to confirm this .. jk)
my skin is way way more clear then even when on just TRT doses of test.
I'm also not as flushed or puffy looking in the face.

negative -
I'm extremely flat and depleted. I cannot get a pump in the gym at all. I think most of this is likely due to my diet as I'm struggling bad with digestion issues and stomach problems and can't eat like I should and go through long periods of fasting to try and help.. but maybe its the lack of test on top of it.

so far, no test cycle has had more positive then negative.


keep in mind - training.. I'm coming back from so crappy injuries (again) and am only doing very very low volume to start out. I'm training only about 3 days per week. this will ramp up over time and so will the food and so will the drugs.

for now no Test on this current run has been positive

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## charger69

> No Testosterone update -
> 
> so its been a pretty long time since I've had optimal or supra-physioligical levels of test in my system. Test is definitely completely out of my system. this latest cycle I just started (very conservative low dose) does not include any test. 
> 
> so how do I feel with just a tiny bit of tren and some EQ with no Test ?
> 
> the basics.. um yeah libido and all that stuff is functioning at top notch capacity (you can find me on porn hub banging hot Latinas if you need to confirm this .. jk)
> my skin is way way more clear then even when on just TRT doses of test.
> I'm also not as flushed or puffy looking in the face.
> ...


Do you think that if you were working out normal that you would have the same results?
By normal I mean pushing it every day. 


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## GearHeaded

> Do you think that if you were working out normal that you would have the same results?
> By normal I mean pushing it every day.


well as you know I own my gym and am a trainer.. I'm used to working out in the past twice per day just cause I'm there and its my job.
so this approach is totally different for me. its just an experiment I'm trying. I do think that if I increased my training volume, took in more cals, more intra workout nutrition, etc.. I would have way better pumps and not be so flat and weak feeling right now.

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## GearHeaded

so heres what a day of diet and training look like 

training - full body pull day

cable lat pullovers - 5 sets 20 reps 
lat pull down reverse grip 3 sets 12 reps
lat pull down - 3 sets 12 reps , 2 hard working sets 8-10 reps
seated row - 3 sets 12 reps, 2 hard working sets 16+ reps
smith machine shrugs - 4 sets 12 reps
rear delt reverse pec dec - 4 sets 12 reps
seated hamstring curls - 4 sets 20 reps
wide stance smith squats - 4 sets 6 reps
standing hamstring curls - 4 sets 20 reps 

diet 
meal 1 - protein shake in milk
meal 2 - egg whites with 4 whole eggs, 1.5 cups rice, 6oz ground beef
meal 3 - 14oz steak, 2 medium potatoes
meal 4 - pre workout snack - ice cream (yeah yeah)
intra - 40g carbs 15g aminos
meal 5 - 10oz salmon 1.5 cups rice
meal 6 - 2 cups pasta 8oz ground beef 


keep in mind thats a training day.. off days are different. and as I've said I've been doing lots of fasting on off days. which I hope will change soon.
this type of volume and food is only 3 days per week right now. I will be slowly ramping this up.. as these things ramp up I may ramp up the drugs as well. but will see

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## GearHeaded

I should note-- I'm finishing off some stuff in my freezer. but for most part this summer I'm going to be "budget bulking" . NO steak and salmon.. whole chickens, ham, pork steaks, can tuna, Mac and cheese, etc.

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## Family_guy

I recently saw a video of a guy that advocates a deca only cycle. He argues that deca(nandrolone ) can perform all the functions that test does when run at a high enough doseage(1-3grams). At that dose it does convert to enough estrogen to be at a good level. He argues that test doesn’t actually do anything special other than convert to estrogen and that’s why guys that don’t run a test base run into issues. He claims that deca only(really deca plus anything other than test) is the least side effect cycle possible.

Thoughts?

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## GearHeaded

> I recently saw a video of a guy that advocates a deca only cycle. He argues that deca(nandrolone ) can perform all the functions that test does when run at a high enough doseage(1-3grams). At that dose it does convert to enough estrogen to be at a good level. He argues that test doesn’t actually do anything special other than convert to estrogen and that’s why guys that don’t run a test base run into issues. He claims that deca only(really deca plus anything other than test) is the least side effect cycle possible.
> 
> Thoughts?


deca only cycles are nothing new, been around for decades, but some of these guys are advocating like its some new idea they just figured out  :Smilie: 

Deca only cycles work just fine for 8-10 week high dosage blasts. run much longer then that and here is what your going to run into

- Deca does NOT convert to DHT. it converts to DHN (which has the capacity to bind to DHT receptors, but provide no androgenic or masculizing effects what so ever.. its basically DHT in "feminine" form if that makes sense.. DHT is what makes a man a man and is what turns a fetus into a male fetus).
so what does this mean. well DHT is required to get and maintain an erection . on top of many other male sexual attributes. also losing out on the androgenic effects is not going to be beneficial long term for muscle growth and gym performance.

- Deca does NOT aromatize into estrogen (for the most part), despite all the shitty online profiles that state that it does.. Deca is a 19 Nor modified nandrolone (progestin) and by its very nature/structure is not aromatizable (there some debate here). However, as a progestinic derived compound its able to be estrogenic in the body and provide estrogen like characteristics by interacting with estrogen receptors via the progestin mechanism.
this is why guys think it does aromatize because it can display estrogenic like effects.

one thing good about deca is that it has been used in Medicine for the treatment of various diseases and conditions so we have quite a bit of real life human studies with it.
off the top of my head, one study I remember reading had men taking 200mg of deca per week. over time every single person in that study estrogen levels went DOWN.
why. because Deca does not aromatize and is very suppressive and will shut down natty test production pretty hard. with no natty test production you have no source of estrogen.

so I completely disagree with this guy saying that Deca aromatizes enough to provide sufficient estrogen... even if it did aromatize to a small degree, it would be so far off compared to test that it just wouldn't really be able to keep up. so over time your estrogen would still go down (just because something aromatizes does not mean its sufficient enough to maintain E levels). this is the same with EQ without test, it does not aromatize enough.


so now you have low estrogen and low DHT and low androgen levels.. not the most ideal condition for putting on muscle. and something that will eventually "feminize" you over time (DHN + progestin effects).
note: this is why Deca is a very female friendly steroid (its basically an anti androgen .. and androgens are what give all the bad sides for women)

so I'm not against short deca only blasts . but its by no means a good idea to do long term AND your going to get more bang for your buck by adding in some androgenic and estrogenic attributes to the cycle.. I'm not saying you have to add test , but other AAS will help make Deca work better . 
eg. deca + mast
deca + dbol 
deca + Tren 

all better then deca only imo 


and as far as him saying deca is the least side effect cycle ,, well tell that to guys who are super sensitive to progestinic effects. deca for them may be the most side effect drug they could use

edit - I will note here that for some guys that are estrogen sensitive, adding too high a dosage of test can cause more side effects. deca only is more appealing for them I'm sure.. but really you could still drop the test and run something like Mast with it to at least get some androgenic effects if your running it long term

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## charger69

> 


As far as the sides, I get the sweats worse on deca than tren and I take a pretty high dose of tren. 



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## GearHeaded

Ok I'm stumped . not sure what is going on.

so 6 months ago I was 20 or more pounds heavier and more muscular then I am right now.. I was also on 2 grams of test per week, 1 gram of tren per week, and 600mg of Mast per week (and thats after running 900mg of deca , dbol , anadrol , etc.),, and back then my blood pressure was just fine.

now I'm not eating much, I'm light and thin, and I'm barely on any gear at all and my BP is constantly 170/100.

the other night I woke up with a nose bleed that poured (not dripped) blood for 5 hours straight (filled up an entire sink,, guessing was at least 2 pints). thats basically 2 blood donations done in one shot, so I'm good in that regards for awhile and won't donate blood again for a year or more.

I've been on Atenolol (heart/bp meds) for 2 years. my BP has always been pretty in check since getting on that.

I just started up a measly 500mg of EQ and 200mg of Tren cycle.. which really shouldn't phase me compared to past cycles.

so kinda at a loss here as to what to do.. I can't lose water weight (I had just lost 25 pounds), I'm only running dry compounds with no test, my diet is fairly clean and not calorie excessive. add more BP meds ? pull the plug on the cycle (EQ and Tren have both been known to raise BP for some guys, but never have for me)?


I'm guessing the cause is stress. lots going on and lots of stress last couple months. never thought I'd have BP issues on such a mild cycle after losing weight . just seems really odd to me

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

Is it possible that the lack of testosterone in your body is somehow linked? Or maybe some secondary effect of testosterone was keeping your blood pressure lower and now it’s gone?

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

Also if you need a test subject while you’re trying to figure this all out...

----------


## GearHeaded

> Is it possible that the lack of testosterone in your body is somehow linked? Or maybe some secondary effect of testosterone was keeping your blood pressure lower and now it’s gone?


yes this crossed my mind and only thought I had was estrogen as a secondary component to test, which helps keep your vascular systems elastic.. but I would think this would take months and months not weeks.
I could pin some Sustanon and see what happens. to be honest , times like this I wish I had actual pure estrogen in a bottle to pin and see what happens with just that .

ok UGLs , we need pure Estrogen suspension in a bottle ASAP !

----------


## GearHeaded

> Also if you need a test subject while you’re trying to figure this all out...


1000 mg of EQ
400 mg of Tren 
75mcg per day T4
10mg Dbol pre workout
No test

thats it. very simple. think the combo (which is not popular) can be super effective

edit - notice I'm doubling your dosage of eq and tren as thats what I would have went with had I been on point with my diet and training and not recovering from injury and other BS

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

> ok UGLs , we need pure Estrogen suspension in a bottle ASAP !


wouldn’t dianabol be a fast way to blow some estrogen into yourself?

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

> 1000 mg of EQ
> 400 mg of Tren 
> 75mcg per day T4
> 10mg Dbol pre workout
> No test
> 
> thats it. very simple. think the combo (which is not popular) can be super effective
> 
> edit - notice I'm doubling your dosage of eq and tren as thats what I would have went with had I been on point with my diet and training and not recovering from injury and other BS


I’m game for trying this at some point

----------


## GearHeaded

> wouldn’t dianabol be a fast way to blow some estrogen into yourself?


absolutely .. thats why I include it above and you don't need much because its a more potent (bioavailable) form of estrogen . on this NO TEST experiment I've been popping 10mg Dbols at various times. thats how I been getting my E with no test (and libido function is through the roof)

----------


## GearHeaded

10mg of dbol is not going to provide the kind of steady levels of E2 as a constant steady dose of TRT would provide though

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

> absolutely .. thats why I include it above and you don't need much because its a more potent (bioavailable) form of estrogen . on this NO TEST experiment I've been popping 10mg Dbols at various times. thats how I been getting my E with no test (and libido function is through the roof)


I think you’re onto something here. Everyone just assumes test is best because that’s what we make naturally, but that may not really be the case at all. Some combination of other compounds may truly be more efficient, but we’ve been screwing up all this time by allowing our bodies at least a TRT dose of testosterone instead of forcing it to fully evolve and run on other compounds.

Just a thought...

----------


## Family_guy

> yes this crossed my mind and only thought I had was estrogen as a secondary component to test, which helps keep your vascular systems elastic.. but I would think this would take months and months not weeks.
> I could pin some Sustanon and see what happens. to be honest , times like this I wish I had actual pure estrogen in a bottle to pin and see what happens with just that .
> 
> ok UGLs , we need pure Estrogen suspension in a bottle ASAP !


Can’t you take birth control for the estrogen?

----------


## GearHeaded

> I think you’re onto something here. Everyone just assumes test is best because that’s what we make naturally, but that may not really be the case at all. Some combination of other compounds may truly be more efficient, but we’ve been screwing up all this time by allowing our bodies at least a TRT dose of testosterone instead of forcing it to fully evolve and run on other compounds.
> 
> Just a thought...



well the guy in your Avi , Arnold, ran plenty of 'no test' cycles.. so theres really nothing new under the sun or re-inventing the wheel sort of speak with me.. its funny, I posted about the combo of DNP + Insulin together, several years ago and explained synergy and reasons why and people thought this was crazy and thought using the two "deadliest drugs in bodybuilding" together would be nuts. it caught wind (not from me) and is popular within very small circles today.. but its not some NEW thing. fact is I have copies of underground bodybuilding journals written in the late 90s that go into explicit detail about how to run dnp and slin together (even giving dosage protocols).
don't let people trick you. there is nothing new under the sun.

a lot of the information I provide is based on my understanding of drug use in bodybuilding history. I'm a researcher not a chemist.. I know dnp and insuin work well together based on historical research and not lab analysis.. my point is a lot of what comes across as "new" is not really new and I will never take credit for it,, science is both analytical and historical. to many people now days simply don't know history.

if you want to know more about "Masteron ", instead of typing that word in google and coming across the most add invested money making for google sites that simply state silly steroid profiles on masteron.. how about type in "HISTORY of Masteron" and go deep into google pages until you find medical journals worth of info. then next type in "drostanolone propionate medical treatment" and read real world treatment information. 

get the history. within the history you'll find the facts. again there is nothing new under the sun.


now sure, protocols and procedures can be new. I will say the theories I have on phase cycling with compound rotation is a "new practice" that I formulated based on my research.. but I'm in no way a chemist and making anything "new"

----------


## GearHeaded

> Can’t you take birth control for the estrogen?


yes I suppose but I've heard birth control for women is as bad for your health as taking steroids  :Wink:

----------


## charger69

> yes I suppose but I've heard birth control for women is as bad for your health as taking steroids


FG thinks hes a she. LOL


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## charger69

I can relate to your situation. BP on cycle was never an issue. Now I need to have The atenolol ready for the cycle. 
This is why I do believe in bloods. I have seen changes in the results as I age. 
Maybe it is just your body is changing. 


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## Family_guy

> I can relate to your situation. BP on cycle was never an issue. Now I need to have The atenolol ready for the cycle. 
> This is why I do believe in bloods. I have seen changes in the results as I age. 
> Maybe it is just your body is changing. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ya maybe you getting old like these old fuggers

----------


## Old Duffer

> Ya maybe you getting old like these old fuggers


You take that back!

----------


## Proximal

Hey being old isn’t bad - until you get old. Moral here, don’t “get” old.

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## Obs

Dont forget the rapid is a big change in how it hits you. I dont know your job but I literally cant run my novolog in the summer working food or not. 
Its just too much shit to stay hammering this shit out like I have been. Slin is my rejuvenation therapy but I know that doesnt suit a comp prep.

----------


## GearHeaded

ok now I'm really frickin confused.. I don't know what the hell is going on with me. my BP has been super high all week. last night I got up off the couch to go to bed and I completely lost my vision and got dizzy and fell down. vision came back after a couple mins.
checked my BP and it was 65/30.. super super low. woke up this morning feeling a bit dizzy as well. BP was 70/40 this morning as well.. changed batteries in BP monitor just to be sure and had my wife take her BP and she was 115/75 like she always is, so I know BP monitor is working just fine.

wtf is going on . super high blood pressure to the point of nose bleeds for the last week or more. then suddenly it just crashes. yesterday day I was 170/100 ,, then last night it crashed to the point of me losing my vision upon standing up and was 65/30 . how does this happen ?

----------


## Obs

> ok now I'm really frickin confused.. I don't know what the hell is going on with me. my BP has been super high all week. last night I got up off the couch to go to bed and I completely lost my vision and got dizzy and fell down. vision came back after a couple mins.
> checked my BP and it was 65/30.. super super low. woke up this morning feeling a bit dizzy as well. BP was 70/40 this morning as well.. changed batteries in BP monitor just to be sure and had my wife take her BP and she was 115/75 like she always is, so I know BP monitor is working just fine.
> 
> wtf is going on . super high blood pressure to the point of nose bleeds for the last week or more. then suddenly it just crashes. yesterday day I was 170/100 ,, then last night it crashed to the point of me losing my vision upon standing up and was 65/30 . how does this happen ?


Stim overuse

----------


## Obs

I frequently lose vision in my left eye in the morning from low blood pressure if I drop ephedrine flat. 

Any sudden changes in stimulants use?

----------


## Obs

I wont go down.
Ive gone to my knees but consider it a personal challenge when I start going down so I try to lsnd on shit to stay propped up.

----------


## GearHeaded

interesting and very possible for stim users.. for me personally though I don't use stims. even my pre workout is stim free pump only product. I'll have some coffee in the morning and thats about it. if I add clen to a stack I'm running its only for synergy and I won't go over 20mcg.
when I was younger I liked stims (even the not so legal ones). but now I just get bad anxiety from them. even coffee I switch to decaf if I've had a lot in a day.

----------


## GearHeaded

for the last two days I did mega dose some L-Arginie,, and took triple dosages of an herbal OTC sup called "Carditone" .. maybe that all just hit me at once.
also I had not drank alcohol in awhile but I did have some whisky last night after a day where I had not drank much water.. so was probably dehydrated on top of it.

----------


## Obs

Odd indeed. 
Maybe you should get looked at. 
I had a head rush in the heat a bit back and saw stars but this time they would not go away. It was an isolated incident though.

----------


## Family_guy

> ok now I'm really frickin confused.. I don't know what the hell is going on with me. my BP has been super high all week. last night I got up off the couch to go to bed and I completely lost my vision and got dizzy and fell down. vision came back after a couple mins.
> checked my BP and it was 65/30.. super super low. woke up this morning feeling a bit dizzy as well. BP was 70/40 this morning as well.. changed batteries in BP monitor just to be sure and had my wife take her BP and she was 115/75 like she always is, so I know BP monitor is working just fine.
> 
> wtf is going on . super high blood pressure to the point of nose bleeds for the last week or more. then suddenly it just crashes. yesterday day I was 170/100 ,, then last night it crashed to the point of me losing my vision upon standing up and was 65/30 . how does this happen ?


That doesn’t sound good man. Might want to get checked out. Even though if your doc doesn’t know all the shit your doing he will freak the fuck out when he sees your BP that high. But the fact it’s so low now is very stange

----------


## Family_guy

> I wont go down.
> Ive gone to my knees but consider it a personal challenge when I start going down so I try to lsnd on shit to stay propped up.



Wtf! That’s hilairous

----------


## Family_guy

> I frequently lose vision in my left eye in the morning from low blood pressure if I drop ephedrine flat. 
> 
> Any sudden changes in stimulants use?



Oh come on. Not that low blood pressure from lack of stims causing left eye blindness crap again!

----------


## Obs

> Oh come on. Not that low blood pressure from lack of stims causing left eye blindness crap again!


Enlighten me

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## charger69

> I wont go down.
> Ive gone to my knees but consider it a personal challenge when I start going down so I try to lsnd on shit to stay propped up.


I remember when you were on your knees. LOL


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## charger69

> Odd indeed. 
> Maybe you should get looked at. 
> I had a head rush in the heat a bit back and saw stars but this time they would not go away. It was an isolated incident though.


Fucking Obs recommending that other people get looked at. LMAO


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## charger69

> That doesnt sound good man. Might want to get checked out. Even though if your doc doesnt know all the shit your doing he will freak the fuck out when he sees your BP that high. But the fact its so low now is very stange


The problem is when you go to a Dr. and you dont reveal that you are cycling, they scratch their head and then start with a shitload of testing. They start going down rabbit holes and 6 months later they are still testing. 


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## Obs

> Fucking Obs recommending that other people get looked at. LMAO
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They already told me there was no hope. 
I only have 20-50 years to live.

----------


## Obs

> Oh come on. Not that low blood pressure from lack of stims causing left eye blindness crap again!


You need to read up on beta 2 agonists. 
You pound stims that downregulate them such as ephedrine and it takes days for them to return to normal. 

So you remove huge amounts amounts of drug induced adrenaline, norepinephrine, and epinephrine...

Well now you have a normal flow of these things all at once with downregulated receptors.

8-0 
Sonofabitch 
Now your bp is dangerously low. 

I thought you were a methead once?

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

Is someone keeping tabs on this dude to make sure he’s alright?

----------


## Obs

> Is someone keeping tabs on this dude to make sure he’s alright?


Which un?

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

> Which un?


GH. You’re still posting. You’re fine lol

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## Family_guy

> You need to read up on beta 2 agonists. 
> You pound stims that downregulate them such as ephedrine and it takes days for them to return to normal. 
> 
> So you remove huge amounts amounts of drug induced adrenaline, norepinephrine, and epinephrine...
> 
> Well now you have a normal flow of these things all at once with downregulated receptors.
> 
> 8-0 
> Sonofabitch 
> ...


I know all that! You’ve told me before! Lmao

I was a meth head and I never went blind!

----------


## Family_guy

> They already told me there was no hope. 
> I only have 20-50 years to live.


20-50 is a big range!

----------


## Family_guy

> I remember when you were on your knees. LOL
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Come on charger set this guy straight about his “lack of stims causing blindness” routine

----------


## GearHeaded

> Is someone keeping tabs on this dude to make sure hes alright?



truth is I've been a terd all day.. not sure whats wrong with me. BUT fuck shit I just signed up for the most insane muscle transformation contest ever and first place gets 10k of prizes. I don't care that I'm feeling like I'm dying, I'm gong to win.. 

my forehead is probably a 110 degrees right now and my fingers feel like they are on fire typing this

----------


## GearHeaded

ugh I'm delirious for real.. hurts to breath

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## Family_guy

> truth is I've been a terd all day.. not sure whats wrong with me. BUT fuck shit I just signed up for the most insane muscle transformation contest ever and first place gets 10k of prizes. I don't care that I'm feeling like I'm dying, I'm gong to win.. 
> 
> my forehead is probably a 110 degrees right now and my fingers feel like they are on fire typing this


Wtf! 10k?? In gear or what?

----------


## GearHeaded

> Wtf! 10k?? In gear or what?


you can win more $ doing body transformation contests then you can competing on stage,, for sure

----------


## Old Duffer

> truth is I've been a terd all day.. not sure whats wrong with me. BUT fuck shit I just signed up for the most insane muscle transformation contest ever and first place gets 10k of prizes. I don't care that I'm feeling like I'm dying, I'm gong to win.. 
> 
> my forehead is probably a 110 degrees right now and my fingers feel like they are on fire typing this


Testosterone DTs?

----------


## Obs

> 20-50 is a big range!


I am doing my best to make it 20... Be patient I am trying ffs

----------


## charger69

> truth is I've been a terd all day.. not sure whats wrong with me. BUT fuck shit I just signed up for the most insane muscle transformation contest ever and first place gets 10k of prizes. I don't care that I'm feeling like I'm dying, I'm gong to win.. 
> 
> my forehead is probably a 110 degrees right now and my fingers feel like they are on fire typing this


Why wont you let me do that?? LOL


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## Obs

> ugh I'm delirious for real.. hurts to breath


go to a doc boss. 
If I had insurance I would take an ambulance just cuz I am tired of driving.

----------


## GearHeaded

spent the night puking .. think I just was coming down with a bug or flu or something. when your body gets sick it can do weird things with heart rate and blood pressure

----------


## GearHeaded

> Wtf! 10k?? In gear or what?


I won a body transformation contest for enhanced athlete a couple years ago.. they sent me a check for 1000$ and sent me 1500$ worth of sarms and peptides (that I picked out).

this time around the winner gets to fly out with Tony Huge to Thailand and spend a week or so there with him, all expenses paid. I want to win and go on that trip just so I can rub shoulders with those guys and then ask for a job  :Smilie:  I'm sure they could use someone like me in some capacity

----------


## Obs

> spent the night puking .. think I just was coming down with a bug or flu or something. when your body gets sick it can do weird things with heart rate and blood pressure


Pulled up to my local gas station yesterday and a man had collapsed. 
He had a couple of ladies helping him. One was a nurse luckily.

He said he got too hot but had recently been diagnosed with afib.

His heart rate and blood oxygen plummeted and he was about to die. I know the look well. He started shaking uncontrollably.

The nurse said to set him up. We are in bfe so ambulance was taking forever. 
I sat him up at the nurses direction and she had him breathe deep and heavy and lean on me. 

In five minutes she had his oxy gen up from 45 to 71.
We loaded him on the stretcher and he was much better than when we found him when he left. 

Dont push it too hard GH. 
I sat thinking about what I did earlier in the day and its amazing I haven't been stretched out somewhere. 
Also....

Don't lay down lol stay sitting up and breathe deep. 
That nurse is the only thing that saved that old man. 
He was heading for a stroke I think.

----------


## Obs

Also, don't be the motherfucker that walks on by. 
Don't know how many males I watched go to and from that gd gas station just staring as they went by. 
Ladies were too small to lift him and I freed up our one cop to communicate with the ambulance. 

People are pussies about shit. Makes me want to slap the fuck out of them. What goes around comes around. If that nurse had walked on by that old guy would have died.

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

> I won a body transformation contest for enhanced athlete a couple years ago.. they sent me a check for 1000$ and sent me 1500$ worth of sarms and peptides (that I picked out).
> 
> this time around the winner gets to fly out with Tony Huge to Thailand and spend a week or so there with him, all expenses paid. I want to win and go on that trip just so I can rub shoulders with those guys and then ask for a job  I'm sure they could use someone like me in some capacity


Well I guess that rules out one of the people I thought you might be in real life.

Thats pretty cool though

----------


## GearHeaded

I have an oxygen monitor and an oxygen machine at home.. was given it when I was released from the hospital after my last surgery because I was on such high dosages of meds I couldn't be without oxygen.
I have used the oxygen machine after being on high dose deca for like 12+ weeks when you get that 'can't breathe feeling'..
my oxygen is generally good in the upper 90s.

anyhow awhile back I made the mistake of getting drunk as fuck when pissed off and then lead to me slamming a whole bunch of pain pills. later that night laying in bed my wife felt my legs and they were freezing cold and I started shivering bad, even though it was summer in a house that does not have AC.. she then checked my oxygen and my BP. my oxygen was in the 60s and my BP and heart rate barely had a reading, like 40/20 with a 40 or so pulse. I was over dosing from the pain meds I slammed (being I had been off them for awhile my tolerance level was way down)..
I refused to let my wife call 911 and basically said if I die I die.

monitoring oxygen and blood pressure is something we should probably do in this sport all the time. massive fluctuations can give us hints at other shit that may be going on in our body

that old man probably had an underlying heart condition that lead him to that situation

----------


## GearHeaded

> Well I guess that rules out one of the people I thought you might be in real life.
> 
> Thats pretty cool though



Lol .. who you think I was ? coach Trevor ? me and that guy share the same brain waves.. can ask my wife, when he was popular on youtube and I watched vids I could finish his sentences

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

> Lol .. who you think I was ? coach Trevor ? me and that guy share the same brain waves.. can ask my wife, when he was popular on youtube and I watched vids I could finish his sentences


Yes, I figured it was a possibility lol

----------


## GearHeaded

so this challenge/contest I'm going to do is only a 30 day contest and the goal is to put on 20 pounds in 30 days.. obviously this isn't your basic transformation contest as no average person can barely make changes in 30 days. its really a "chemical warfare'' challenge. drug use is part of the gig and the stack you use will probably be part of the judging process (reason why I like Enhanced Athlete as a company)

so first things first I need to go get a physical and dr check up and blood work done

then this is kinda what I'm thinking for a 30 day mass blast

test (sustanon ) - 1000mg per week
Tren ace - 350mg per week
Ment - 350mg per week
NPP - 700mg per week
Masteron - 600mg per week

Anadrol - 50mg per day
Dbol - 40mg per day

Mk677 50mg per day (can't afford growth right now)
insulin 40iu per day
T4 75mcg per day
LGD 40mg per day
Clen 20mcg per day


training - 2x per day
diet - Mcdonalds every day  :Wink:

----------


## GearHeaded

this is my current depleted skinny 20 pounds down back right now .. if I'm going to put on as much muscle as fast as possible its going to need to go in big body parts (forget biceps and calves). I want my upper back to waist ratio to be huge . adding a bunch of thickness up top here will really make a big difference imo

----------


## Obs

> this is my current depleted skinny 20 pounds down back right now .. if I'm going to put on as much muscle as fast as possible its going to need to go in big body parts (forget biceps and calves). I want my upper back to waist ratio to be huge . adding a bunch of thickness up top here will really make a big difference imo


Nice vee!

You will do well though your ratio is already great.

----------


## Obs

Have you ever tried "apple pickers"?

----------


## GearHeaded

> Have you ever tried "apple pickers"?


not sure what that is

----------


## Obs

> not sure what that is


I will post a video. 
I do them as a warmup now but from a lower angle with the band. 
It absolutely charges my back on warmup.

----------


## Obs

7:27 start watching.

I have protracted shoulders which you dont at all but this fires up my back and shoulders to want to kill. 

I dont do the 1 rep of 20 sets shit though 
I just do three sets of ten with the heaviest band I can find.

----------


## 99JT

McDonald's every day is that the secret?

----------


## GearHeaded

> McDonald's every day is that the secret?


lol yes.. you get a bunch more hormones this way because of all the shit they inject into the meat . its like getting protein, carbs, and steroids all in one yummy bite

----------


## charger69

> lol yes.. you get a bunch more hormones this way because of all the shit they inject into the meat . its like getting protein, carbs, and steroids all in one yummy bite


Are you changing my diet???? LOL
Why the mast, T4 and clen ?


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## GearHeaded

> Are you changing my diet???? LOL
> Why the mast, T4 and clen?


con prep with mcdonalds every day would be quite the experiment...

reason for the Mast in a bulk cycle like this is because of the NPP, Tren , and Ment, are all 19 nor based progestins.. the mast is going to off set negative progestin effects plus provide me some androgen load to keep glycogen full. reason for the T4 is because both the Tren and the MK677 (HGH) are thyroid suppressive, and when I'm eating a large surplus of calories I'm going to need my metabolism running at a good pace.. reason for the clen at such a low dose is just to provide some synergy with the T4 and HGH (clen is not for fat loss here),, the clen has synergetic properties with both HGH and T4 (mainly the conversion of T4 into T3 by the liver) and will help with IGF output as well as provide additional anabolic enzymes

----------


## GearHeaded

> I won a body transformation contest for enhanced athlete a couple years ago.. they sent me a check for 1000$ and sent me 1500$ worth of sarms and peptides (that I picked out).
> 
> this time around the winner gets to fly out with Tony Huge to Thailand and spend a week or so there with him, all expenses paid. I want to win and go on that trip just so I can rub shoulders with those guys and then ask for a job  I'm sure they could use someone like me in some capacity



heck I still have the check, maybe I should cash it eh  :Smilie: 


the sups have been long gone used up by now though

----------


## charger69

> Is someone keeping tabs on this dude to make sure hes alright?


Yes, both GH and Obs. The both need baby sitters because they are dangerous to themselves. LOL


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----------


## 99JT

> lol yes.. you get a bunch more hormones this way because of all the shit they inject into the meat . its like getting protein, carbs, and steroids all in one yummy bite


Ha might have to give that a try next time. Id love 20lbs in a month but I'm too much of a pussy to take that much gear...then again a few months ago I said id never do tren .

----------


## Obs

> Yes, both GH and Obs. The both need baby sitters because they are dangerous to themselves. LOL
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We all have our hobbies

----------


## Family_guy

> heck I still have the check, maybe I should cash it eh 
> 
> 
> the sups have been long gone used up by now though


That’s pretty freakin cool!!

Good luck man I know you will kill it!!

----------


## GearHeaded

> then this is kinda what I'm thinking for a 30 day mass blast
> 
> test (sustanon ) - 1000mg per week
> Tren ace - 350mg per week
> Ment - 350mg per week
> NPP - 700mg per week
> Masteron - 600mg per week
> 
> Anadrol - 50mg per day
> ...


just keeping you guys in the loop as I prepare to start a cycle in about 10 days .. I'm modifying the above

I'm going to start week 1 out with a front load

2000mg of Deca (week 1 only then its just npp)
1500mg of EQ (week 1 only).. note this would be higher if I weren't already running a bit of EQ with my cruise 
1000mg mast e (week 1 only but then a combo of mast e and mast prop for duration)

all this shit will likely just get injected all in one day when I start my cycle (in 10 days) .. inject all this to be my slow steady long ester working in the background, then the short ester cycle I list above takes over

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

> just keeping you guys in the loop as I prepare to start a cycle in about 10 days .. I'm modifying the above
> 
> I'm going to start week 1 out with a front load
> 
> 2000mg of Deca (week 1 only then its just npp)
> 1500mg of EQ (week 1 only).. note this would be higher if I weren't already running a bit of EQ with my cruise 
> 1000mg mast e (week 1 only but then a combo of mast e and mast prop for duration)
> 
> all this shit will likely just get injected all in one day when I start my cycle (in 10 days) .. inject all this to be my slow steady long ester working in the background, then the short ester cycle I list above takes over


So I am super curious amount MENT. Currently my favorite substance is DHB, but some of the thing I hear make me think MENT might change all that

----------


## GearHeaded

> So I am super curious amount MENT. Currently my favorite substance is DHB, but some of the thing I hear make me think MENT might change all that



I've ran ment a handful of times and have helped some clients out as well over the years .. I'll say this, Ment is a nightmare drug for anyone that is progestin/estrogen sensitive . but if your not , then its a tremendous bulking steroid . just be aware its such a great bulker that you can easily find yourself in the "I can't breathe can't sleep can't function have tons of anxiety all day long" camp very quickly .. gaining lots of weight quickly is not easy or comfy. ment will make your uncomfortable.. its basically the estrogenic 'wet' version of tren (both are 19 nors) .. but I actually recommend running tren with it just to get some androgen load with the cycle .

some guys think Ment is weak and prob cause they were running fake ment as test prop or were not running high enough dosages. its a complete blood saturation bomb and will get you big and full quick . but stay away if you have anxiety (which I have but I don't give a fuck, I'm gaining 30 pounds and ment is one of the best tools to do the job)

----------


## Obs

> I've ran ment a handful of times and have helped some clients out as well over the years .. I'll say this, Ment is a nightmare drug for anyone that is progestin/estrogen sensitive . but if your not , then its a tremendous bulking steroid . just be aware its such a great bulker that you can easily find yourself in the "I can't breathe can't sleep can't function have tons of anxiety all day long" camp very quickly .. gaining lots of weight quickly is not easy or comfy. ment will make your uncomfortable.. its basically the estrogenic 'wet' version of tren (both are 19 nors) .. but I actually recommend running tren with it just to get some androgen load with the cycle .
> 
> some guys think Ment is weak and prob cause they were running fake ment as test prop or were not running high enough dosages. its a complete blood saturation bomb and will get you big and full quick . but stay away if you have anxiety (which I have but I don't give a fuck, I'm gaining 30 pounds and ment is one of the best tools to do the job)


Never tried it but Doctoxin said it was some of the best stuff there is. He said it was damn hard to find legit anywhere.

----------


## GearHeaded

> Never tried it but Doctoxin said it was some of the best stuff there is. He said it was damn hard to find legit anywhere.


I agree . and don't blame the source either.. I think they do their best to brew quality but the raws were just not up to par. so they can have weak batches here and there. thats why most UGLs just say fuck it and stay away and stick with what makes them money.
but I've had quality ment it is a great bulking compound at just 350mg a week . its one of the few compounds that actually 'scare me' , if that makes sense ( a gram of tren a week with tren suspension and 2 grams of test aint' shit)

----------


## Obs

> I agree . and don't blame the source either.. I think they do their best to brew quality but the raws were just not up to par. so they can have weak batches here and there. thats why most UGLs just say fuck it and stay away and stick with what makes them money.
> but I've had quality ment it is a great bulking compound at just 350mg a week . its one of the few compounds that actually 'scare me' , if that makes sense ( a gram of tren a week with tren suspension and 2 grams of test aint' shit)


I shall recommend Val try to source some.
I want to try it and foget about it.

----------


## balance

New plan looks really interesting (beyond the crazy doses) in that there is very little aromatizing compounds in the mix. Yes the huge quantities will provide some aromatization, but the ratio appears quite low/dry. Are you going to run orals with this plan also like Dbol ? Also while there is no test in this mix is it still possible to have something similar to test flu due to the mass influx of these other types of compounds?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Family_guy

> New plan looks really interesting (beyond the crazy doses) in that there is very little aromatizing compounds in the mix. Yes the huge quantities will provide some aromatization, but the ratio appears quite low/dry. Are you going to run orals with this plan also like Dbol ? Also while there is no test in this mix is it still possible to have something similar to test flu due to the mass influx of these other types of compounds?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The ment is what’s gonna cause a ton of aromatization. It’s a super wet compound. That’s why it’s such a strong bulker

----------


## GearHeaded

flat and weak and totally depleted pics .. just so you guys can see the progress along the way to getting huge and jacked.

ok guys, keep in mind these are "before" pics . not after pics. I'm supposed to look small as fuck like this pic .. 30 pounds heavier and leaner to this in 90 days . magic gonna happen  :Smilie:

----------


## Old Duffer

> The ment is whats gonna cause a ton of aromatization. Its a super wet compound. Thats why its such a strong bulker


Little known fact. True source of ment:

----------


## GearHeaded

> Little known fact. True source of ment:


only is activated post workout with 30iu of slin

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## Family_guy

> Little known fact. True source of ment:


Lmfao!!

----------


## balance

> The ment is whats gonna cause a ton of aromatization. Its a super wet compound. Thats why its such a strong bulker


Oh Im dense, I didnt realize the update was the first week front load. Question still stands though on the large front load causing test flu like symptoms even though not straight test?


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## i_SLAM_cougars

> Oh I’m dense, I didn’t realize the update was the first week front load. Question still stands though on the large front load causing test flu like symptoms even though not straight test?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What’s test flu? I’ve heard that term before but never experienced anything flu like from testosterone . Even in large doses. Is there something specific that causes this?

----------


## Obs

> What’s test flu? I’ve heard that term before but never experienced anything flu like from testosterone. Even in large doses. Is there something specific that causes this?


It is generally caused by psycological dillusion and can have symptoms such as swelling of the vagina, bitching about imaginary things, and full on pussyitis.

----------


## GearHeaded

if I'm not 30 pounds bigger and fuller in 30 days from now , then I def I have test flu.. 
yet I've taken no test in months .. fucking stab me in the forehead with a sharp blade and thats your "testosterone ". ok .. I'm talking shit right now but really test is totally over rated

----------


## HoldMyBeer

> The ment is whats gonna cause a ton of aromatization. Its a super wet compound. Thats why its such a strong bulker


Are these two separate statements?
I didn't think "wet" had anything to do with aromatization but with water retention in the muscles. For example, deca is considered wet, but aromatizes very little

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

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## GearHeaded

I was a bit tipsy last night and stubborn .. but Balances statement about test flu is totally spot on (even without me taking test) . If I go front loading that much oil at once , considering I've not been on much gear at all lately , I likely could get an immune system response that could make me sick as a dog. so I need to be careful. I may be better front loading with more orals (its actually the breaking down of carrier oils from injections that can cause "test flu")

----------


## GearHeaded

> The ment is what’s gonna cause a ton of aromatization. It’s a super wet compound. That’s why it’s such a strong bulker



MENT is super estrogenic , however I'm not sure how much it actually aromatizes. the thing is its a 19 nor. and when you look at chemical structure of 19 nors aromatization should be very limited (they are not suppose to aromatize by design).. what I think is going on with Ment is that its such a strong progestin based compound that it itself will interact with both progestin and estrogen receptors directly AS estrogen, apart from aromatizing . its almost like injecting pure estrogen into your body (yet being 10x more anabolic then test and twice as anabolic as tren )

----------


## GearHeaded

> Are these two separate statements?
> I didn't think "wet" had anything to do with aromatization but with water retention in the muscles. For example, deca is considered wet, but aromatizes very little


a lot of guys have always thought that "wet" meant estrogenic.. but really in the AAS world there are so few steroids that are estrogenic in regards to aromatization compared to don't aromatize its hard to make the comparison..
so I happen to agree with you there. a "wet" compound is something that is 'RETENTIVE' in nature and causes an increase in blood volume and whole body water retention (apart from estrogenic factors) and nutrient retention.. your body and cells get saturated with blood, water, nutrients, minerals, etc.. and help stimulate growth through these mechanisms and not just through protein synthesis. by expanding the cells with more volume, even water retention, you are setting the ground work for more growth potential.

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

> MENT is super estrogenic , however I'm not sure how much it actually aromatizes. the thing is its a 19 nor. and when you look at chemical structure of 19 nors aromatization should be very limited (they are not suppose to aromatize by design).. what I think is going on with Ment is that its such a strong progestin based compound that it itself will interact with both progestin and estrogen receptors directly AS estrogen, apart from aromatizing . its almost like injecting pure estrogen into your body (yet being 10x more anabolic then test and twice as anabolic as tren)


Isnt the anabolic rating on MENT like 2300? And it sounds like that actually carries over to real life unlike say... Halotestin , who’s numbers would lead you to believe it’s much more powerful that trenbolone , but it just doesn’t pan out that way.

----------


## GearHeaded

> if I'm not 30 pounds bigger and fuller in 30 days from now , then I def I have test flu.. 
> yet I've taken no test in months .. fucking stab me in the forehead with a sharp blade and thats your "testosterone". ok .. I'm talking shit right now but really test is totally over rated


^^ I have no clue what the hell I'm talking about here . WTF is this lol !


I will say though that not being on Test for weeks/months, and having the sex drive and performance I have without it is better then with it. the idea that you need to run Test as a base for every cycle you do is total bullshit..

funny thing is, AAS usage in sports like track and field have known this for decades and its rare that you find Test being used in cycles for olympic level athletes . I think test has just been over blown and propagandized in the bodybuilding world, and its not even an anabolic steroid (its a simple androgen that was originally derived in the late 1930s from dog piss.. yet this "dog piss" derivative is touted by guys as 'king' and 'test is best' .. I call bullshit on this. I call bullshit on 'test only' cycles as well. look at the logs of forums over all the years , these test only cycles guys don't even grow and put on any muscle. they just get shitty side effects and complain). 
thats my rant for now

----------


## GearHeaded

> Isnt the anabolic rating on MENT like 2300? And it sounds like that actually carries over to real life unlike say... Halotestin, who’s numbers would lead you to believe it’s much more powerful that trenbolone, but it just doesn’t pan out that way.


yes you are spot on. the MENT anabolic ratio definitely carries over to real life. where halo on the other hand is just a strong androgen and thats it (and its anabolic rating does not carry over)..

I personally think it has something to do with how MENT works on both androgen and estrogen receptors and "syncs things up" perfectly sort of speak. unlike most AAS that are dependent on test or some other compound to convert to estrogen. MENT has ability to act on estrogen in an anabolic way (this is just a theory of mine)

----------


## 99JT

> lol yes.. you get a bunch more hormones this way because of all the shit they inject into the meat . its like getting protein, carbs, and steroids all in one yummy bite


What do you hit for macros or just whatever?

----------


## Family_guy

> Are these two separate statements?
> I didn't think "wet" had anything to do with aromatization but with water retention in the muscles. For example, deca is considered wet, but aromatizes very little
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk


I guess it was one statement really. I might be wrong but aren’t most wet compounds ones that either directly aromatize or act on estrogen/progestin receptors In some way

----------


## Family_guy

> MENT is super estrogenic , however I'm not sure how much it actually aromatizes. the thing is its a 19 nor. and when you look at chemical structure of 19 nors aromatization should be very limited (they are not suppose to aromatize by design).. what I think is going on with Ment is that its such a strong progestin based compound that it itself will interact with both progestin and estrogen receptors directly AS estrogen, apart from aromatizing . its almost like injecting pure estrogen into your body (yet being 10x more anabolic then test and twice as anabolic as tren)


I guess I should have been more specific because your right that very few steroids aromatize yet a lot
More do have some sort of estrogenic activity(anadrol comes to mind)

----------


## Obs

> yes you are spot on. the MENT anabolic ratio definitely carries over to real life. where halo on the other hand is just a strong androgen and thats it (and its anabolic rating does not carry over)..
> 
> I personally think it has something to do with how MENT works on both androgen and estrogen receptors and "syncs things up" perfectly sort of speak. unlike most AAS that are dependent on test or some other compound to convert to estrogen. MENT has ability to act on estrogen in an anabolic way (this is just a theory of mine)


We are getting MENT...
Its real... Its actually happening... 

I told them to make it a platinum edition and call it, 
"MOTHER... FUCKIN'... MENT!" on the label.

I doubt the last part happens but in a couple months we will see.

Calm down though! 
I peed a little too.
Its a ways out though.
But its on the way!

----------


## Obs

> i guess i should have been more specific because your right that very few steroids aromatize yet a lot
> more do have some sort of estrogenic activity(anadrol comes to mind)


ment!

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## Obs

> ^^ I have no clue what the hell I'm talking about here . WTF is this lol !


It made perfect sense to me but I was drinking at the time I liked it.

----------


## Obs

I am gonna mix my MENT with tren base and call it BASEMENT!

MENT

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## Obs

Where's it at?

It's in the BASEMENT.

tits

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## GearHeaded

> What do you hit for macros or just whatever?


my go to macros is generally 300 protein, 400 carbs, 100 fat .. this time around I'm going to shoot for higher protein though. 50-75g per meal 6x or more per day and then limit direct sources of fat a bit.

going to try and increase my meal frequency even if that means some meals are just protein only meals, just to try to get protein in every couple hours.
so for example this morning I had whey isolate shake and cooked cup of egg whites and some whole eggs. no carbs. just wanted to get a protein feeding in to start the day

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## kelkel

> Where's it at?
> 
> It's in the BASEMENT.
> 
> *tits*



Your tourettes is kicking in again.

----------


## GearHeaded

UPDATE -
so you guys know I have not been running test for quite some time. no need to repeat myself but feel great with no test. however I've not really been on a 'cycle' or 'blast' per se .. I started a bit of EQ and Tren with no test a few weeks back. started with 500mg EQ and 200mg Tren e. I ended up cutting that in half and just cruising on 250mg EQ and 100mg Tren.
sure I talk about all these plans for cycles I'm going to blast. but have not yet pulled the trigger. been dragging my feet.

this week was a good week of training and diet. I really filled out from the depleted state I was in from all the fasting I had been doing. I took my before pics for this June improvement contest in this super depleted state. I'm up at least 8 pounds just from some food and training.

I planned on staying depleted to enter this enhanced athlete competition of gaining 20 pounds in 30 days .. but shit I just can't keep sitting on my ass and not eating and training hard and not taking drugs . so fuck it, I trained and ate hard all week. and today I injected 500mg of Test, 250mg of Deca , 100mg of NPP, and 100mg of Tren , and swallowed 30mg of Dbol .
time to get growing !

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

How’s this going?

----------


## GearHeaded

> How’s this going?



I'm up 15 pounds . but thats still down 10 or more pounds down from my normal on cycle weight.. which sucks because I'm already experiencing bad anxiety, breathing problems, lack of sleep etc.. even though my dosages are super low for me and my weight is only up 15 pounds from a depleted state and still down from my normal lifting hard and on cycle weight .
maybe I'm just gettin old and my body doesn't want to grow

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## i_SLAM_cougars

> I'm up 15 pounds . but thats still down 10 or more pounds down from my normal on cycle weight.. which sucks because I'm already experiencing bad anxiety, breathing problems, lack of sleep etc.. even though my dosages are super low for me and my weight is only up 15 pounds from a depleted state and still down from my normal lifting hard and on cycle weight .
> maybe I'm just gettin old and my body doesn't want to grow


You still have about what? 60 days to come up with the other 15 - 25 pounds. 

Maybe you just need to try some new tricks? Something fresh?

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## GearHeaded

> You still have about what? 60 days to come up with the other 15 - 25 pounds. 
> 
> Maybe you just need to try some new tricks? Something fresh?


guarantee you if I just ate the food I'm supposed to eat I'd be jacked..thats the one "trick" I'm missing . it doesn't get more anabolic then red meat 12oz a meal 8 times a day . all the tren and Anadrol doesn't do shit for me unless I feed the beast

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

> guarantee you if I just ate the food I'm supposed to eat I'd be jacked..thats the one "trick" I'm missing . it doesn't get more anabolic then red meat 12oz a meal 8 times a day . all the tren and Anadrol doesn't do shit for me unless I feed the beast


So... what increases appetite? Boldenone , indica, maybe some kind of peptide or sarm I’m not familiar with?

----------


## GearHeaded

> So... what increases appetite? Boldenone, indica, maybe some kind of peptide or sarm I’m not familiar with?


MK677 , its a beast when dosed twice per day ,, 25mg before bed and 25mg mid morning. I know exactly what to do . to be honest my wife and 4 kids and multiple businesses and legal issues etc. are whats holding me back . not the chemistry .. i have clients that are kicking total ass right now though too and they inspire me . I just need to get my shit together and and train and eat. I own a bad ass gym, I have tons of clients that kick ass in my gym, I train people and then get exhausted and don't train and eat like I should for myself .. to be honest I just need some "kick ass" thrown my way

----------


## GearHeaded

short explanation - I'm being a pussy ass bitch . man the fuck up and hit the weights hard twice a day, hit the food 8 times a day, and take your drugs all day long

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## Charlie67

> guarantee you if I just ate the food I'm supposed to eat I'd be jacked..thats the one "trick" I'm missing . it doesn't get more anabolic then red meat 12oz a meal 8 times a day . all the tren and Anadrol doesn't do shit for me unless I feed the beast


Damn... 96oz of beef? If you ate 90/10, that's like 4,800 calories alone, with 530g of protein! I'd never poop!

What did you want your carries to be?

----------


## Proximal

> short explanation - I'm being a pussy ass bitch . man the fuck up and hit the weights hard twice a day, hit the food 8 times a day, and take your drugs all day long


Mind if I use this approach as well for the remainder of the Summer GH? 

Guys, Ill take part of this blame for his shortage of time / energy. This dude has gotten me to a level Id never dreamed of. Problem is, I ask him too many fn questions, lol.

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## 99JT

> Mind if I use this approach as well for the remainder of the Summer GH? 
> 
> Guys, Ill take part of this blame for his shortage of time / energy. This dude has gotten me to a level Id never dreamed of. Problem is, I ask him too many fn questions, lol.


Same here I feel bad to ask questions sometimes.

----------


## GearHeaded

you guys keep me going ,, for real . if it wasn't for seeing your progress and me knowing my knowledge and research over the years is helping people out , I don't know what I'd do

----------


## GearHeaded

> Damn... 96oz of beef? If you ate 90/10, that's like 4,800 calories alone, with 530g of protein! I'd never poop!
> 
> What did you want your carries to be?


idk , but thats about half what a bad ass mofo thats 260 pounds and trying to put on muscle eats..(8k cals with most of that coming from red meat is the norm for guys that get big) and over the years I've learned to not eat like what you are currently but what you want to be. so if your a stringy 180 pound dude and you want to be 220 and buff, then you need to eat like your 220 right now.

96oz of beef aint shit.. just need to add some chicken and rice to that if you really want to grow

edit - this is just my observational analysis

the biggest complaint I've ever gotten over the years of all the diets I've ever written is usually about the amount of meat I "prescribed ". but plenty of pros are on my side advocating high protein/meat consumption like Milos Sarcev

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## i_SLAM_cougars

> idk , but thats about half what a bad ass mofo thats 260 pounds and trying to put on muscle eats..(8k cals with most of that coming from red meat is the norm for guys that get big) and over the years I've learned to not eat like what you are currently but what you want to be. so if your a stringy 180 pound dude and you want to be 220 and buff, then you need to eat like your 220 right now.
> 
> 96oz of beef aint shit.. just need to add some chicken and rice to that if you really want to grow
> 
> edit - this is just my observational analysis
> 
> the biggest complaint I've ever gotten over the years of all the diets I've ever written is usually about the amount of meat I "prescribed ". but plenty of pros are on my side advocating high protein/meat consumption like Milos Sarcev


I can dig it, you just need to make sure you’re getting some heavy fiber in there (supplemented or otherwise), probiotics, maybe apple cider vinegar. Gotta move that meat out once it does it’s thing.

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## GearHeaded

> I can dig it, you just need to make sure you’re getting some heavy fiber in there (supplemented or otherwise), probiotics, maybe apple cider vinegar. Gotta move that meat out once it does it’s thing.


yeah I'm exaggerating a bit here , just to make a point . but I been slacking big time with my diet. I really think high protein consistently throughout the day is what guys with fast metabolisms like me need to grow . Milos Sarcev said he got his best results once he upped his protein to 500-600g per day

----------


## charger69

> yeah I'm exaggerating a bit here , just to make a point . but I been slacking big time with my diet. I really think high protein consistently throughout the day is what guys with fast metabolisms like me need to grow . Milos Sarcev said he got his best results once he upped his protein to 500-600g per day


Peanut Butter will do the trick! LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## balance

> you guys keep me going ,, for real . if it wasn't for seeing your progress and me knowing my knowledge and research over the years is helping people out , I don't know what I'd do


Your help and knowledge pushed me beyond what I could have imagined. You also lit a fire for me to read more to have a better understanding of things and how they work.

It takes a beast to make the beast. 
Now get on with it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## kelkel

> Gotta move that meat out once it does its thing.



I've been told that countless times.....

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

Updates Mr. Wizard

How’s the experiment going?

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## GearHeaded

> Updates Mr. Wizard
> 
> How’s the experiment going?


its all down hill .. my wife just told me my calves are looking small 

are you kidding me

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## Old Duffer

> its all down hill .. my wife just told me my calves are looking small 
> 
> are you kidding me


Small calves make your peter look bigger. That's my philosophy anyway

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## Obs

> Small calves make your peter look bigger. That's my philosophy anyway


I wish

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## charger69

> I wish


Duff was referring to a normal person. LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Obs

> Duff was referring to a normal person. LOL
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh... I was gonna say your little calves don't make my dick look bigger.
At least not from behind.

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## GearHeaded

> Small calves make your peter look bigger. That's my philosophy anyway


so that was probably her motive, she wanted the big D

----------


## GearHeaded

my upper back to waist ratio is still ok . but I've been slacking all summer.. I need to be twice as wide as this

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## GearHeaded

I've not ran much gear this summer, not as planned.. but my Doctor sent my script , so think its time to get busy 
[ATTACH=CONFIG[/ATTACH]
still have older meds to finish up too
[ATTACH=CONFIG[/ATTACH]

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

> I've not ran much gear this summer, not as planned.. but my Doctor sent my script , so think its time to get busy 
> 
> still have older meds to finish up too


Guessing the next blast will be largely NPP and EQ?

----------


## GearHeaded

> Guessing the next blast will be largely NPP and EQ?


going to run Tri-Tren with a tren ace and tren suspension front load.. masteron of course as usual. deca and npp. will have some weeks where I run high dose test as well, 1500-2000mg.. will be rotating orals between Anadrol , Dbol , Winny (probably save the Var for my next cruise though). EQ I always have plenty on hand because thats what I like to cruise on. I might shoot 3000mg at the start of this blast, but likely won't run it consistently

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

> going to run Tri-Tren with a tren ace and tren suspension front load.. masteron of course as usual. deca and npp. will have some weeks where I run high dose test as well, 1500-2000mg.. will be rotating orals between Anadrol, Dbol, Winny (probably save the Var for my next cruise though). EQ I always have plenty on hand because thats what I like to cruise on. I might shoot 3000mg at the start of this blast, but likely won't run it consistently


Tri-Tren ? Is that a mix of Ace, Hex, and Ent?

----------


## HoldMyBeer

Seems like all of us just have a ton of old shit laying around we never finish up before ordering something else

----------


## Family_guy

> Seems like all of us just have a ton of old shit laying around we never finish up before ordering something else


Lol! Not me! All I got left now is half a bottle of test suspension and a little prop

----------


## Family_guy

> I've not ran much gear this summer, not as planned.. but my Doctor sent my script , so think its time to get busy 
> [ATTACH=CONFIG[/ATTACH]
> still have older meds to finish up too
> [ATTACH=CONFIG[/ATTACH]


Umm I will take 50 DBol , 5 vials of Deca , 5 EQ and some Winny please.

Oh wait what do you mean this isnt the pharmacy?!?

----------


## GearHeaded

just a little more stream of bad luck to report here

as you all may recall, awhile back I had a little accident. missed a stair/step rushing down the stairs and ended up falling and screwing up my surgically reconstructed ankle thats held together with screws and thought I busted a screw out cause how bad it swole up and I couldn't walk for like 3 weeks.. also tweaked the shit out of my lower back, which has had a shit ton of surgeries on it and is held together with only hardware and screws from the hip bones up several vertebrae.
but I'm walking around fine now right (other then some pain). 
so other day decide to break down some old wood furniture so I can get it in the trash. what better way then a fucking axe to do that, right . oops, mis swing. thats my shin. muscle and bone fully exposed..split my shin wide open.. lol it was an axe. not listening to my wife and going to the ER . I've been bleeding for 3 days straight . back to gimping around not able to walk.

its almost comical at this point the amount of bullshit bad luck I've been having

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

You should probably go get that sewn back together

----------


## GearHeaded

you guys don't believe I'm the most accident prone dick wad on earth .. look at this

reconstructive hand surgery from a fluke incident.. I was in a sling an cast and physical therapy for 6 months. no lifting for me.. why, cause I was breaking down shipping boxes in my garage and my hand slipped on the knife and sliced all the tendons in my hand apart. lost all use of my right hand and had to go in for reconstructive surgery to put all my tendons together . that was not that long ago
lol . its always fucking something !!

----------


## Obs

> just a little more stream of bad luck to report here
> 
> as you all may recall, awhile back I had a little accident. missed a stair/step rushing down the stairs and ended up falling and screwing up my surgically reconstructed ankle thats held together with screws and thought I busted a screw out cause how bad it swole up and I couldn't walk for like 3 weeks.. also tweaked the shit out of my lower back, which has had a shit ton of surgeries on it and is held together with only hardware and screws from the hip bones up several vertebrae.
> but I'm walking around fine now right (other then some pain). 
> so other day decide to break down some old wood furniture so I can get it in the trash. what better way then a fucking axe to do that, right . oops, mis swing. thats my shin. muscle and bone fully exposed..split my shin wide open.. lol it was an axe. not listening to my wife and going to the ER . I've been bleeding for 3 days straight . back to gimping around not able to walk.
> 
> its almost comical at this point the amount of bullshit bad luck I've been having


Gotta be Irish... Only Irish have that shitty of luck.
Guy I know named richard is a 52 year old irish mechanic. Gifted mechanic... Always blowing himself up or some shit.

----------


## GearHeaded

> You should probably go get that sewn back together


I know but supposedly after 12 or so hours they can't do that as the tissue hardens.. its been 3 days. and if I did sew it I'd have to figure out how to do it myself at home, cause I have no insurance and the last check I wrote to t mobile for my phone bill bounced. my oldest daughter does know how to sew though so maybe her skills can come in handy (she even has a sewing machine),, and my oldest son just signed up for nursing school, so he'll been fine with the blood and gore I'm sure

----------


## GearHeaded

> Gotta be Irish... Only Irish have that shitty of luck.
> Guy I know named richard is a 52 year old irish mechanic. Gifted mechanic... Always blowing himself up or some shit.


lol, your exactly right . I tell my hispanic wife that I'm an "Irish god" (jokingly of course) and the response is generally that Jesus was a "Jewish god" and look at his luck being crucified by his on brethren

----------


## Obs

> lol, your exactly right . I tell my hispanic wife that I'm an "Irish god" (jokingly of course) and the response is generally that Jesus was a "Jewish god" and look at his luck being crucified by his on brethren


Funniest shit I ever saw in my life...

He was on a 300 komatsu with a 4' wide bucket and it was full of water from his last scoop. Probably 100 gallons of muddiest shit water in existence. 
He had the front sliding window up. 

He didnt even look went to scoop again...

Nothing stops the power of a machine that size or even slows it. He sunk the bucket and shot the entire thing square on his head and shoulders. 

Lmfao it was like 10° out, whole movement took two seconds.

He was the best damn dozer operator and mechanic I will ever know but when he fuked up it was legendary

----------


## GearHeaded

"shooting yourself in the foot" is a common saying for a reason I suppose . shit happens and we all do ourselves in . axing yourself in the shin is close enough I suppose. no biggy, other then the fact I'm still bleeding 3 days later. thats not quite normal for "Irish gods' ,, only creature I know that can bleed for 3 days straight and still live to tell the tell is a 'woman' (and thats only cause she has a tampon)

----------


## Obs

Guy spent a long time in a burn unit when he crawled into the back of his truck with a tonneau cover to turn off a leaking propane tank. 

Static of his hair on the tonneau ignited it. Blew him out the back of the truck and sent the tonneau 100' 

Hair on fire and all.

Miss working with him. He got shit done. 
Probably a genetic trait some irish carry. 
You guys pissed in a leprechaun when you were drunk in your wilder days.

----------


## Obs

> "shooting yourself in the foot" is a common saying for a reason I suppose . shit happens and we all do ourselves in . axing yourself in the shin is close enough I suppose. no biggy, other then the fact I'm still bleeding 3 days later. thats not quite normal for "Irish gods' ,, only creature I know that can bleed for 3 days straight and still live to tell the tell is a 'woman' (and thats only cause she has a tampon)


Superglue and cloth gauze. 
It'lll close it up

----------


## GearHeaded

> Guy spent a long time in a burn unit when he crawled into the back of his truck with a tonneau cover to turn off a leaking propane tank. 
> 
> Static of his hair on the tonneau ignited it. Blew him out the back of the truck and sent the tonneau 100' 
> 
> Hair on fire and all.
> 
> Miss working with him. He got shit done. 
> Probably a genetic trait some irish carry. 
> You guys pissed in a leprechaun when you were drunk in your wilder days.


you ever see that horror movie "Leprecahan". -- probably about some drunk mad ass Irish guy coming back to haunt regular people cause of all the bad luck he had in life

----------


## Obs

> you ever see that horror movie "Leprecahan". -- probably about some drunk mad ass Irish guy coming back to haunt regular people cause of all the bad luck he had in life


Yeah they made a lot of those. 
Richard had a bad temper but it was warranted. 
I noticed... No one ever called him "Dick" lol

----------


## GearHeaded

ok I'm convinced the whole world is against me (and the Irish now) ,, after Obs made his leprechaun comment , 10 mins later my daughter pulled out the lucky charms for a snack

damn, I just got done making Mexican food for everyone thinking I was so culturally correct  :Wink: 

serioulsy though, I did not know we had lucky charms and suddenly they are sitting their in my face

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

I would imagine your anabolic inventory speeds your healing up significantly?

----------


## GearHeaded

> I would imagine your anabolic inventory speeds your healing up significantly?


the lucky charms are working

----------


## GearHeaded

> I would imagine your anabolic inventory speeds your healing up significantly?


its funny you mention that though , my wife was like "you have any HGH you can take" . I am running a TRT dose of Deca though, that has some healing properties to it

----------


## charger69

> its funny you mention that though , my wife was like "you have any HGH you can take" . I am running a TRT dose of Deca though, that has some healing properties to it


I hope that this did not happen because of me. I am having great luck. I hope I am not taking all of yours. LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## GearHeaded

update 

so its been a hectic summer. very little training. started a couple cycles but ended them early. been off for awhile. had family company staying with us from out of town for a few weeks. no gym. no proper diet. no drugs . just drinking and doing shit.

anyhow ready to get back on track. but wanted to try something totally new and very simple. my blood pressure is shit right now for some reason,, so I'm not going to blast deca , anadrol , and tren (like I have sitting there staring at me to take).

this is a different type of experiment 

TRT dose of test - 250mg of pharma grade Bayer
25mg per day Magnalone (injectible LGD40)
25mg per day MK677
30iu insulin 

thats it.. simple , plus not many people out there have experience with Magnalone. so I want to review it

----------


## Obs

> update 
> 
> so its been a hectic summer. very little training. started a couple cycles but ended them early. been off for awhile. had family company staying with us from out of town for a few weeks. no gym. no proper diet. no drugs . just drinking and doing shit.
> 
> anyhow ready to get back on track. but wanted to try something totally new and very simple. my blood pressure is shit right now for some reason,, so I'm not going to blast deca , anadrol , and tren (like I have sitting there staring at me to take).
> 
> this is a different type of experiment 
> 
> TRT dose of test - 250mg of pharma grade Bayer
> ...


This summer has swamped everyone. You aren't alone. Its like all people are on a rhythm with each other and dont know it. Some times we are all to busy to even post. This is the deadest comp thread I saw yet. 
Hope things calm down for everyone this fall and winter.

----------


## Proximal

Company staying with you for a few WEEKS?!?

Holy crap!i would have put and end to my marriage or life inside of of a few days. You are a good man GH!

----------


## GearHeaded

> Company staying with you for a few WEEKS?!?
> 
> Holy crap!i would have put and end to my marriage or life inside of of a few days. You are a good man GH!


it was tuff . and of course other family locally always wanted to come over too for "family socializing" .. so it was a constant get together going on. and I'm extremely anti social and of course struggle with anxiety . I just ended up drinking the whole time (bad decision , I should of just ended up training my ass off the whole time)

----------


## Proximal

> it was tuff . and of course other family locally always wanted to come over too for "family socializing" .. so it was a constant get together going on. and I'm extremely anti social and of course struggle with anxiety . I just ended up drinking the whole time (bad decision , I should of just ended up training my ass off the whole time)


Would have drank as well - gallons. Shit I can’t even hang out with my own family without being anesthetized with booze. 

Congrats on surviving friend.

----------


## Obs

> Would have drank as well - gallons. Shit I can’t even hang out with my own family without being anesthetized with booze. 
> 
> Congrats on surviving friend.


Lmao

----------


## Obs

> Would have drank as well - gallons. Shit I can’t even hang out with my own family without being anesthetized with booze. 
> 
> Congrats on surviving friend.


I feel your pain btw. 
I wait for everyone to go to bed and slam beers trying to beat my fastest time on klondike solitaire. Its a great stress reliever.

When I get a sub 2 minute medium difficulty deck I will be lost again.

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

I just don’t have anything to talk about with lame ass people. I have no interest in it. Drinking only enhances the chance that I’m going to let everyone know that I think they suck. 

On the flip side of that I can talk to an interesting person forever. Alcohol enhances that. But once you start blaming other people for being 3 months behind on your electric bill, or bitching about your weak ass job doing nothing, or start telling me your 10 year old is “pan sexual” and you’re cool with it... the chances of getting hit in your cock holster go up astronomically

----------


## Family_guy

> I just don’t have anything to talk about with lame ass people. I have no interest in it. Drinking only enhances the chance that I’m going to let everyone know that I think they suck. 
> 
> On the flip side of that I can talk to an interesting person forever. Alcohol enhances that. But once you start blaming other people for being 3 months behind on your electric bill, or bitching about your weak ass job doing nothing, or start telling me your 10 year old is “pan sexual” and you’re cool with it... the chances of getting hit in your cock holster go up astronomically


Lmao! That was beautiful my friend! Especially the last line about the cock holster! I’m gonna steal that one for sure

----------


## GearHeaded

so my Magnalone (injectible LGD40) just showed up today .. from my research being there is no ester attached and its strong affinity to receptors, there is a strong possibility of localized site enhancement at the site of injection . so I'm going to inject biceps only daily. 25mg per day to start. with Bayer test at 250mg every 5th day.

this is supposed to be way way more potent then oral LGD. and I've had good results in the past with oral LGD at 10-20mg a day. so I have high expectations for injectible at 25mg - 50mg.

----------


## Obs

> so my Magnalone (injectible LGD40) just showed up today .. from my research being there is no ester attached and its strong affinity to receptors, there is a strong possibility of localized site enhancement at the site of injection . so I'm going to inject biceps only daily. 25mg per day to start. with Bayer test at 250mg every 5th day.
> 
> this is supposed to be way way more potent then oral LGD. and I've had good results in the past with oral LGD at 10-20mg a day. so I have high expectations for injectible at 25mg - 50mg.


Imo...
The shorter the ester the more localized the site injection stimulus and PIP.

TNE every day in biceps will create results visible in 90 injects or so imo. 

That being said I burned my syringe boxes the other day. I cannot understand how I injected way over 1000 times...

It was those 8x per day slin with tne and the like.

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

> Imo...
> The shorter the ester the more localized the site injection stimulus and PIP.
> 
> TNE every day in biceps will create results visible in 90 injects or so imo. 
> 
> That being said I burned my syringe boxes the other day. I cannot understand how I injected way over 1000 times...
> 
> It was those 8x per day slin with tne and the like.


what is TNE?

----------


## HoldMyBeer

> what is TNE?


Testosterone no ester
(Test base or suspension)

----------


## Family_guy

> so my Magnalone (injectible LGD40) just showed up today .. from my research being there is no ester attached and its strong affinity to receptors, there is a strong possibility of localized site enhancement at the site of injection . so I'm going to inject biceps only daily. 25mg per day to start. with Bayer test at 250mg every 5th day.
> 
> this is supposed to be way way more potent then oral LGD. and I've had good results in the past with oral LGD at 10-20mg a day. so I have high expectations for injectible at 25mg - 50mg.


I’m extremely interested to see how you like the LGD. Tony Huge has always talked up sarms so much but I just can’t believ him since he sells all the sarms too!

----------


## GearHeaded

> I’m extremely interested to see how you like the LGD. Tony Huge has always talked up sarms so much but I just can’t believ him since he sells all the sarms too!




I've got a good amount of experience with Tony Huge/ Enhanced Athlete Sarms and peptides  :Smilie:

----------


## charger69

> Imo...
> The shorter the ester the more localized the site injection stimulus and PIP.
> 
> TNE every day in biceps will create results visible in 90 injects or so imo. 
> 
> That being said I burned my syringe boxes the other day. I cannot understand how I injected way over 1000 times...
> 
> It was those 8x per day slin with tne and the like.


I hear you. Injecting daily of AAS, slin 3x, and HGH goes through them fast. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## GearHeaded

well I'm up 8 pounds in about a week (over a pound a day since starting).. hit chest and shoulders today. fullness is coming back. I keep pinning this LGD in the biceps every single day.
too early to tell, but off to a good start

----------


## GearHeaded

I thought it was 6 pounds, did the math and looked at the calendar and my log. its not even been a full week. things are clicking (and without Tren or Deca , my two favs) with just an injectible SARM and some test . hmm. we'll see. its probably just muscle memory being it was such a shit summer and I'm down a lot of weight compared to my normal weight

----------


## GearHeaded

well shit , I couldn't resist. I got this Tri-Tren just sitting there. I had to shoot 200mg yesterday. will be adding this to the mix at 400 per week

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## kelkel

> things are clicking (and without Tren or Deca, my two favs)



Hell, I'm terrified to be without deca , even low dose alongside my trt. Afraid my knees will fall apart even with the knee gel injections....

----------


## GearHeaded

> Hell, I'm terrified to be without deca, .


its quite possible you've developed a physical dependency on the drug and your addicted . you may want to seek professional help 

actually I'm like you. I can fit deca into pretty much any stack.. just a cc here and there every week or so seems to work wonders and I feel better, less inflamed and achy

----------


## kelkel

> its quite possible you've developed a physical dependency on the drug and your addicted . you may want to seek professional help 
> 
> actually I'm like you. I can fit deca into pretty much any stack.. just a cc here and there every week or so seems to work wonders and I feel better, less inflamed and achy



I just tried to find the Nick Trigili video (without success) where he talks about coming off of deca and how big of a mistake it was for his joints. Very much on point, to me anyway.

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## GearHeaded

> I just tried to find the Nick Trigili video (without success) where he talks about coming off of deca and how big of a mistake it was for his joints. Very much on point, to me anyway.


yes I remember him posting that video ,, probably like 6 months ago or so. especially if your a DC or high intensity style lifter, Deca is pretty much a year round 'supplement'

----------


## GearHeaded

time for a high protein diet .. meat meat meat .

why. my best friend (and bother in law) who started a hunting and outfitting business a little while back,, just got done bow hunting in multiple states (with multiple guys that paid to outfit and hunt with him) , harvested a bunch of "organic grass feed in nature" all natural wild animals on this run. he just stopped by and dropped off like 200+ pounds of quality meat for me (um he lives in NY and I live in the Rocky Mountains .. but he's been traveling the country state to state hunting.. so kinda funny when someone who lives 1000+ miles aways just drops by on a run to drop me off meat for free).

so thats pretty damn sweet.. looks like I'm on an all natural grass fed venison diet for awhile now.


note - no he did not just drop off dead animals. lol. this shit is killed, then immediately quality processed at local butchers and custom flavored and processed (from spicy Italian sausage to morning sausage, to fat free ground, to roasts etc..)


never underestimate the power of quality friends and family guys and always give back

----------


## balance

Thats awesome GH. Buying fresh quality meat is so expensive these days. Having 200lbs on hand is going to make it much easier to get it done!


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## GearHeaded

I think this injectible LGD is making my feet shrink .. I mean damn are not these feet super fucking small ! or are my calves just that big, idk 



 :Wink:

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

> I think this injectible LGD is making my feet shrink .. I mean damn are not these feet super fucking small ! or are my calves just that big, idk


we need to talk about this in depth later. My calves are shiiiiiit

----------


## GearHeaded

another note here .. so most you guys may know I get some crappy acne and skin irritation when on test, even low dose. but I've been running this Bayer pharma test and have been totally fine (and frickin morning wood is off the charts to the point that its annoying) . I'm running 500mg per week now.

I think there is something to be said about pharma gear or name brand gear that is just slightly different then UGL even if chemically its all the same drug

----------


## charger69

> I think this injectible LGD is making my feet shrink .. I mean damn are not these feet super fucking small ! or are my calves just that big, idk


You know what the size of the feet represent??? 
I would be worried that you may be shrinking in other places. LOL


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## Obs

> You know what the size of the feet represent??? 
> I would be worried that you may be shrinking in other places. LOL
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I know this one!

Size of the foot is equivalent to the gape in your ass! Gd deviant, non-wikr lover!

----------


## Obs

> another note here .. so most you guys may know I get some crappy acne and skin irritation when on test, even low dose. but I've been running this Bayer pharma test and have been totally fine (and frickin morning wood is off the charts to the point that its annoying) . I'm running 500mg per week now.
> 
> I think there is something to be said about pharma gear or name brand gear that is just slightly different then UGL even if chemically its all the same drug


Strength?

Perrigo was the weakest thing I ever touched mext to a bad batch of AEL.

----------


## GearHeaded

> Strength?
> 
> Perrigo was the weakest thing I ever touched mext to a bad batch of AEL.


I don't think pharma gear is necessarily "stronger" .. 200mg of test is 200mg wither its pharma or UGL . however there are other possible differences. Molecular and Dalton weight of the chemical structure itself (pharma gear is likely much refined and purified) and toxicity.

also not every drug is the same even though its marketed the same (a generic is not always a name brand).. for example. 
Organon's Deca -Durabolan.. they hold the original patent for Deca. they've not shared it with competing companies. any one that produces their own Deca (by trying to reverse engineer Organons deca) is making something new, not the original . only deca-durabloin is deca-durabloin . all the UGL deca or even generic pharma grade stuff is 'nandrolone ' , sure, but its not the original patented formula of Organons deca.
there are going to be differences at the molecular level .

now how this effects us when we take deca , wither Organon or some generic, I don't know.. maybe the small molecular differences don't really have much effect on us , or maybe it does .


heres a crappy analogy -
you have two different cooks/chefs . one is world renown and has his recipes all locked up in his head. the other cooks is just a nobody line cook .. now give them both all the exact same ingredients. have them prepare the same meal . and even though the ingredients used were all the same , chef 1 meal may be outstanding and chef 2 meal may end up being garbage..

just because you have the raw ingredients , does not mean you necessarily know the proper formulation.


Organons Deca has millions of dollars of research behind it and patents. 
Joe's deca has a cheap batch or raws from china and a stove top to cook it on

theres probably going to be some differences .. having said that though, there is some damn good UGL gear out there

----------


## Obs

> I don't think pharma gear is necessarily "stronger" .. 200mg of test is 200mg wither its pharma or UGL . however there are other possible differences. Molecular and Dalton weight of the chemical structure itself (pharma gear is likely much refined and purified) and toxicity.
> 
> also not every drug is the same even though its marketed the same (a generic is not always a name brand).. for example. 
> Organon's Deca -Durabolan.. they hold the original patent for Deca. they've not shared it with competing companies. any one that produces their own Deca (by trying to reverse engineer Organons deca) is making something new, not the original . only deca-durabloin is deca-durabloin . all the UGL deca or even generic pharma grade stuff is 'nandrolone ' , sure, but its not the original patented formula of Organons deca.
> there are going to be differences at the molecular level .
> 
> now how this effects us when we take deca , wither Organon or some generic, I don't know.. maybe the small molecular differences don't really have much effect on us , or maybe it does .
> 
> 
> ...


Thsts a valid point.
No medicine that is generic is quite as good as the original patent. Usually because patents are circumvented by very slightly altering the structure of it. 

Raws are so cheap that overdosing is common. 
Chinese rawss that are legitimate every time are rare. I shot the hell out of perrigo though and was not impressed. Possibly because of less sides? 
I have no idea.

----------


## GearHeaded

so I've been tinkering around all damn summer.. too busy doing summer stuff. like sipping on whisky on the back patio , taking hikes and just enjoying the weather. my training goes to shit, my diet also goes to shit (not much of an appetite).
With AAS I've done some compound rotation and some experimentation but mainly just at 'cruise' dosages . I have not done a heavy blast in quite a long time .

well fall is here. its getting colder. its going to start getting dark by 5pm. going to be nothing to do but eat, sleep, train, shoot tons of gear, and get HUGE  :Smilie: 

so I'm ramping up for a blast..

shot 350mg of Test and 30mg of Magnalone Tuesday (running the magnalone at 30mg per day).. then shot 600mg of test and 250mg of EQ yesterday.
will shoot another 350mg of test and 250mg of EQ tomorrow.
so looking at starting out with 1 gram+ of test per week, 500 Eq , 30mg Mag per day . then in a bit I'll phase in 400mg of tren and either winny or anadrol and of course be adding Mast in at some point as well. the Eq will likely get dropped off at some point and Npp/Deca will take its place.
and we'll go from there

----------


## jolter604

> so I've been tinkering around all damn summer.. too busy doing summer stuff. like sipping on whisky on the back patio , taking hikes and just enjoying the weather. my training goes to shit, my diet also goes to shit (not much of an appetite).
> With AAS I've done some compound rotation and some experimentation but mainly just at 'cruise' dosages . I have not done a heavy blast in quite a long time .
> 
> well fall is here. its getting colder. its going to start getting dark by 5pm. going to be nothing to do but eat, sleep, train, shoot tons of gear, and get HUGE 
> 
> so I'm ramping up for a blast..
> 
> shot 350mg of Test and 30mg of Magnalone Tuesday (running the magnalone at 30mg per day).. then shot 600mg of test and 250mg of EQ yesterday.
> will shoot another 350mg of test and 250mg of EQ tomorrow.
> ...


Can't wait to see this stack

FOOD IS EVERYTHING

----------


## GearHeaded

going to go ahead and spend all fall/winter bulking , 6 months straight . time to put on some size

heres a little combo that works well for me


Dbols don't get any better then Balkan Dbol 
Adrols don't get any better then Iranian Adrols
Test doesn't get any better then Bayer
Insulin of course

and utilizing Tren for a bulk , its best done mixed with wet compounds and plenty of estrogen

----------


## Obs

> going to go ahead and spend all fall/winter bulking , 6 months straight . time to put on some size
> 
> heres a little combo that works well for me
> 
> 
> Dbols don't get any better then Balkan Dbol 
> Adrols don't get any better then Iranian Adrols
> Test doesn't get any better then Bayer
> Insulin of course
> ...


Funny you say that. 
I never got the same effect from dbol as my first two runs that were balkan. 

The feeling at 50-100mg was explosive. 
It was a tight wired feeling

----------


## jolter604

> going to go ahead and spend all fall/winter bulking , 6 months straight . time to put on some size
> 
> heres a little combo that works well for me
> 
> 
> Dbols don't get any better then Balkan Dbol 
> Adrols don't get any better then Iranian Adrols
> Test doesn't get any better then Bayer
> Insulin of course
> ...


I used that anadrol very good

FOOD IS EVERYTHING

----------


## C27H40O3

> I think this injectible LGD is making my feet shrink .. I mean damn are not these feet super fucking small ! or are my calves just that big, idk


Looks like legs on cattle 


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## GearHeaded

> Looks like legs on cattle


umm , ok. 
yeah I have attributes of cattle. I'll take that as a compliment

----------


## Obs

> umm , ok. 
> yeah I have attributes of cattle. I'll take that as a compliment


That looks like its of the quadruple cheeseburger breed.

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

> umm , ok. 
> yeah I have attributes of cattle. I'll take that as a compliment


Looks like the Tren is legit

----------


## Family_guy

> That looks like its of the quadruple cheeseburger breed.


Holy shit that cracked me up....showed it to my wife and she didn’t think it was funny...maybe I should have married you obs

----------


## Obs

> Holy shit that cracked me up....showed it to my wife and she didn’t think it was funny...maybe I should have married you obs


If you can drag branches and give a good bj....

----------


## Obs

And cook
I forgot that part

----------


## Family_guy

> If you can drag branches and give a good bj....


Well I can give a good bj if nothing else  :Wink:

----------


## Obs

> Well I can give a good bj if nothing else


Yeah shit...
Cant ever have it all

----------


## Family_guy

> And cook
> I forgot that part


2 out of 3 ain’t bad right???

----------


## GearHeaded

update - 
added 250mcg per day of Hexareliin and 500mcg of HGH-frag (no MK at the moment)
insulin 20-40iu per day

morning routine upon waking - 10mg of Dbol , 10iu slin, 75mcg T4, and the Hex and Frag .. will be adding 25mg of Winny to this here shortly 

basically mainly running high dose test with 500mg of EQ thrown in.. the test is currently 1000mg of Sustanon (pinned 500mg 2x per week) , 100mg of test Prop pinned EOD, and 250mg of Test E pinned 2x per week .. so roughly 1850mg of test per week .

the scale should start to climb

edit - correction .. the 10iu slin comes about an hour or two later with breakfast

----------


## charger69

> update - 
> added 250mcg per day of Hexareliin and 500mcg of HGH-frag (no MK at the moment)
> insulin 20-40iu per day
> 
> morning routine upon waking - 10mg of Dbol , 10iu slin, and the Hex and Frag .. will be adding 25mg of Winny to this here shortly 
> 
> basically mainly running high dose test with 500mg of EQ thrown in.. the test is currently 1000mg of Sustanon (pinned 500mg 2x per week) , 100mg of test Prop pinned EOD, and 250mg of Test E pinned 2x per week .. so roughly 1850mg of test per week .
> 
> the scale should start to climb


Then why the frag and Winnie?


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## GearHeaded

> Then why the frag and Winnie?


I've got several vials of frag just sitting around here a co sent me for free awhile back.. so just decided to go ahead and use some of it up (I won't be cutting any time soon) . between the hex and the frag, it should be similar to running say 4iu of HGH per day (and I'm in no position to be able to afford HGH at the moment so I'm just tying to make due with what I have on hand).. the frag is taken upon waking and I'll get some possible fat loss benefits out of it being I'm currently going no carb for the first couple hours upon waking (plus doing plenty of caffeine). but thats not really important, I'm just using the shit up before it goes bad or something 

the Winny is just low dose first thing in the am to help suppress cortisol right now (which I feel has been pretty high lately)

----------


## GearHeaded

note -- IF I'm running MK677 , instead of the hex and frag . then I take my 10iu of insulin upon waking

----------


## jstone

I haven't read the whole thread so you may have answered this already. Why not switch over completely to a basal insulin like lantus? I read you were using some lantus, along with some novalin R, and now I see only 10iu around breakfast so I'm assuming it some type of R insulin.

----------


## GearHeaded

> I haven't read the whole thread so you may have answered this already. Why not switch over completely to a basal insulin like lantus? I read you were using some lantus, along with some novalin R, and now I see only 10iu around breakfast so I'm assuming it some type of R insulin.


I would run Lantus if I was running exogenous HGH (which I have ran for years ,, but just strapped for $ currently). right now I'm running GH peptides and am dependent on natty pulses of HGH .. so I want to be more precise with my timing of the insulin . with exogenous HGH lantus works great because your not dependent on a natty pulse.

so yes your correct I'm running Novalin R . I run 10iu in the AM. 10-15iu pre workout . 15-20iu post workout.

IF this winter I end up getting back on exogenous HGH and dropping the peptides (GHRPs) then I will likely add Lantus insulin into this protocol as well , 10iu before bed. or I may even do this with just running MK, as its long half life makes it not as negatively effected by slin use as the shorter acting peptides like GHRP6 and CJC or Hex

----------


## Obs

Rapid acting... 
No need for prolonged especially with a high metabolic rate

----------


## GearHeaded

> Rapid acting... 
> No need for prolonged especially with a high metabolic rate


the main reason I rarely use Humalog , especially pre workout. is because owning the gym I often times get stuck talking to people before starting my workout, or heck even in the middle of my workout .. I plan a quick 40 min workout but then I'm in the gym 3 hours (between members talking to me, something comes up etc.).
with humalog I got to be more focused.. I gotta get my workout started and I gotta get my carbs in. with humalin on the other hand I have time to spare


however I was thinking, once I start really ramping up the food here soon, to start an insulin 'mega dosing' protocol for a few weeks and see how that goes. would likely add humalog to that as well and pin it with each and every meal

----------


## Obs

> the main reason I rarely use Humalog , especially pre workout. is because owning the gym I often times get stuck talking to people before starting my workout, or heck even in the middle of my workout .. I plan a quick 40 min workout but then I'm in the gym 3 hours (between members talking to me, something comes up etc.).
> with humalog I got to be more focused.. I gotta get my workout started and I gotta get my carbs in. with humalin on the other hand I have time to spare
> 
> 
> however I was thinking, once I start really ramping up the food here soon, to start an insulin 'mega dosing' protocol for a few weeks and see how that goes. would likely add humalog to that as well and pin it with each and every meal


10iu every two hours from wakeup and you will have no time to not eat. 

Its impossible to do every day and the reason I like it so much.

----------


## GearHeaded

update on diet and training

so I'm actually starting this bulking phase eating very little food . only 3 meals per day right now.. don't worry that shit will definitely get ramped up to 6 meals per day. But I want to see how the high dosage blast effects me before adding a calorie surplus to the equation. I'm up 5 pounds in the last week or so , on very little food. the drugs are kicking in and I'm retaining and partitioning nutrients well. this is definitely going to stall out quickly and I'll need to start hitting the food hard , but for now just want to see what happens . heck maybe drugs alone put 12 pounds back on me without the food. I'll take it

training - 5-6 days per week. simple push pull legs routine right now just to get back into the groove.
I'm thinking that sometime this winter in the bulking phase I want to train for some strength . I generally never do, mainly due to injuries that hold me back.. but Fk it. I'll be in a calorie surplus big time and taking massive amounts of gear , why not get strong in a couple lifts on top of it.
so going to try and hit maybe 245 x 6 over head press .. and perhaps 325 x 3 on bench press (I'm not a big bench presser, because of busted up shoulders, but that seems reasonable even with shoulder issues). we'll see. main goal is just to add on some size

----------


## GearHeaded

> 10iu every two hours from wakeup and you will have no time to not eat. 
> 
> Its impossible to do every day and the reason I like it so much.


yeah doing something like that is exactly what I'm thinking .. I definitely won't attempt it though without MK677 (which keeps my blood sugar high and my appetite revving big time)

----------


## Obs

> yeah doing something like that is exactly what I'm thinking .. I definitely won't attempt it though without MK677 (which keeps my blood sugar high and my appetite revving big time)


Insulin alone makes me hungry as I can be. 

I hear guys say "I'm going hypo."

I do too. 
While I type it I am cleaning a fridge out. 
Its a psychotic hunger feeling I get. 

I dont leave work but when I go hypo I will drop my shit in a bad neighborhood and fly to a fast food place. 

I sweat and start shaking and almost immediately I can eat 8lbs of food.

----------


## Proximal

What do you guys always keep in the car & with you in case you go hypo?

----------


## HoldMyBeer

> What do you guys always keep in the car & with you in case you go hypo?


Glucose tabs. They're like a dollar something and work well

----------


## jstone

> What do you guys always keep in the car & with you in case you go hypo?


Mt. Dew is what I kept around when I was using insulin . I prefer basal insulin like lantus now. GH has explained the benefits, and cons of both so I wont go into it, for me lantus is better. It may not be as good for bulking but in around 60 days of using lantus, hgh, npp, and tpp I gained a solid 30lbs. Then I ended up in the hospital for totally unrelated reasons, and lost it all. That was my first experiment with lantus, and I'm not sure if I will ever go back to R type insulin.

----------


## charger69

I use the glucose tabs for emergencies. They do the trick. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Obs

> What do you guys always keep in the car & with you in case you go hypo?


I like to keep $30, crawl into the nearest McDonalds and destroy their entire menu.

----------


## Obs

> I use the glucose tabs for emergencies. They do the trick. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well look at you Mr. Proper way!

----------


## HoldMyBeer

> Mt. Dew is what I kept around when I was using insulin. I prefer basal insulin like lantus now. GH has explained the benefits, and cons of both so I wont go into it, for me lantus is better. It may not be as good for bulking but in around 60 days of using lantus, hgh, npp, and tpp I gained a solid 30lbs. Then I ended up in the hospital for totally unrelated reasons, and lost it all. That was my first experiment with lantus, and I'm not sure if I will ever go back to R type insulin.


Idk what everyone's push for lantus is lately. You use a humalog type, you consume X carbs in Y window. You use lantus, and everything has to be on point for the entire day to go the benefit from it. Same benefit, more work
It's really a niche use case when it should be preferred

----------


## GearHeaded

> Idk what everyone's push for lantus is lately. You use a humalog type, you consume X carbs in Y window. You use lantus, and everything has to be on point for the entire day to go the benefit from it. Same benefit, more work
> It's really a niche use case when it should be preferred


imo, Lantus is a useful tool for guys running high amounts of HGH . its a valid way to control blood sugars without having to worry about timing, and you'll still get a synergistic effect and increase IGF levels even further then running HGH alone . plus it will help take the burden off the pancreas (which is working over time if your taking lots of HGH)


but for bulking and enhancing recovery , I prefer fast acting insulin and timing its use

----------


## GearHeaded

update -

added 400mg of Tri Tren and 250mg of Deca and 20mg of Dbol to the current stack 

so we are at
Test 1850mg
EQ 500mg
Tren 400mg
Deca 250mg
Dbol 20mg day
Magnalone 30mg day
Hex 250mcg day
insulin 20-40iu


weight has been going up over 1 pound per day for the last 8 days . even though I'm barely eating (just 3 meals per day)

----------


## kelkel

Your thoughts on Magnalone? Have you run it on lesser cycles? In essence, how do you know it's effective for you in the above mix?

----------


## GearHeaded

> Your thoughts on Magnalone? Have you run it on lesser cycles? In essence, how do you know it's effective for you in the above mix?


I did a few weeks of magnalone just by itself when I first got it , before this blast when I was just cruising.. my weight went up easily with no change in my diet really and no noticeable excess water retention.
so my thought is that even though Magnalone is mainly a pure anabolic , it has to also be a really good nutrient partitioner and glycogen loader (the weight gain form enhancing protein synthesis takes weeks and weeks to notice, not days)

I think running Magnalone just by itself at 50mg per day for say 6 weeks straight would illicit some pretty good results . I will be purchasing it again.

----------


## Family_guy

> Idk what everyone's push for lantus is lately. You use a humalog type, you consume X carbs in Y window. You use lantus, and everything has to be on point for the entire day to go the benefit from it. Same benefit, more work
> It's really a niche use case when it should be preferred


Have you used lantus before?

I have to disagree on your idea of the whole day having to be on point. Honestly the peak is so low that to actually go hypo on lantus would take a ridiculous amount. As long as your eating regularly like 4-5 times a day even you will be fine on lantus

----------


## Family_guy

> Mt. Dew is what I kept around when I was using insulin. I prefer basal insulin like lantus now. GH has explained the benefits, and cons of both so I wont go into it, for me lantus is better. It may not be as good for bulking but in around 60 days of using lantus, hgh, npp, and tpp I gained a solid 30lbs. Then I ended up in the hospital for totally unrelated reasons, and lost it all. That was my first experiment with lantus, and I'm not sure if I will ever go back to R type insulin.



I had a similar experience with lantus. I gained 20something solid pounds in a month not even on gear. That was on like 10-15 iu lantus I thunk

----------


## HoldMyBeer

> Have you used lantus before?
> 
> I have to disagree on your idea of the whole day having to be on point. Honestly the peak is so low that to actually go hypo on lantus would take a ridiculous amount. As long as your eating regularly like 4-5 times a day even you will be fine on lantus


A female bodybuilding coach came on a podcast about a year ago and preached how good lantus is, it made its rounds and people started using it. Talk to any coach that knows their stuff and they will tell you that you're better off using regular or fast acting (except for niche cases like I said, such as to combat the hyperglycemic effects of HGH like GH mentioned)
The premise is, if you're only using enough to not have to worry about going hypo, say 10-15iu, that's less than 1iu per hour, not a big enough improvement over natural production to justify it. If you are using enough, then the rest of your day needs to be on point.

----------


## Family_guy

> A female bodybuilding coach came on a podcast about a year ago and preached how good lantus is, it made its rounds and people started using it. Talk to any coach that knows their stuff and they will tell you that you're better off using regular or fast acting (except for niche cases like I said, such as to combat the hyperglycemic effects of HGH like GH mentioned)
> The premise is, if you're only using enough to not have to worry about going hypo, say 10-15iu, that's less than 1iu per hour, not a big enough improvement over natural production to justify it. If you are using enough, then the rest of your day needs to be on point.


Until you try it you can’t really say. Every “coach that knows their stuff” has a different opinion. Opinions are like assholes right? Everyone has one. I’m speaking from experience. I mean your right for sure 10-15iu doesn’t seem like much. But in my experience I gained a ton very quickly not even working out. Just working construction and eating a lot.

----------


## Family_guy

> A female bodybuilding coach came on a podcast about a year ago and preached how good lantus is, it made its rounds and people started using it. Talk to any coach that knows their stuff and they will tell you that you're better off using regular or fast acting (except for niche cases like I said, such as to combat the hyperglycemic effects of HGH like GH mentioned)
> The premise is, if you're only using enough to not have to worry about going hypo, say 10-15iu, that's less than 1iu per hour, not a big enough improvement over natural production to justify it. If you are using enough, then the rest of your day needs to be on point.



I’m not saying one is better than the other. I think honestly to be the most efficient you should be using both. A steady peak in the background and huge peaks when you use the novolin/log

----------


## HoldMyBeer

Nevermind

----------


## HoldMyBeer

Nevermind

----------


## GearHeaded

imo .. using Lantus can be an extremely advanced protools thing , or it can be an extremely simple thing. just like lots of other compounds we use and it depends on how we stack them and what the situation is.

simple stupid protocol with lantus = if your an average Joe thats running a little bit of HGH or MK677 for 6 months or so and notice your blood sugars are getting to pre diabetic range , simply adding 10-20iu of Lantus per day can help ease the burden on the Pancreas as well as help lower those blood sugars..


advanced protocol with lantus = if your trying to get as big as possible and put on as much muscle as possible in say a years time,, your already going to be using HGh and MK677, plus eating a ton of carbs, plus using fast acting insulin at select times , plus using lots of AAS that have nutrient partitioning benefits ,etc etc.. you may really benefit by running latnus in the background to help cover your 6000 cals and 8 meals per day, plus increase IGF etc.

----------


## HoldMyBeer

> imo .. using Lantus can be an extremely advanced protools thing , or it can be an extremely simple thing. just like lots of other compounds we use and it depends on how we stack them and what the situation is.
> 
> simple stupid protocol with lantus = if your an average Joe thats running a little bit of HGH or MK677 for 6 months or so and notice your blood sugars are getting to pre diabetic range , simply adding 10-20iu of Lantus per day can help ease the burden on the Pancreas as well as help lower those blood sugars..
> 
> 
> advanced protocol with lantus = if your trying to get as big as possible and put on as much muscle as possible in say a years time,, your already going to be using HGh and MK677, plus eating a ton of carbs, plus using fast acting insulin at select times , plus using lots of AAS that have nutrient partitioning benefits ,etc etc.. you may really benefit by running latnus in the background to help cover your 6000 cals and 8 meals per day, plus increase IGF etc.


I agree
The simple stupid would be a niche case I was talking about. Using it to counter hyperglycemia
Then you have the advanced case, works, saves some pins, makes sense to me
Then you have people on boards, that are not using high dose hgh plus a secretagogue and eating 6kcals who are using anyways. Seems unnecessary, but if it works for them, no need to change it. It's just not something I would recommend to a friend or do myself unless it were a situation like the ones you mentioned

----------


## GearHeaded

update 

so I'm going with a low carb diet .. which is absolutely ridiculous for an insulin advocate/user guy to do that wants to gain a lot of size.. high carb high insulin is by far the best approach for putting on size.

but I feel really inflamed. really achy etc. (part of why I just added deca ). so its a fine balance of feeling good and healthy with also adding size. I know pounding 800g of carbs per day with 60iu of slin will put the size on, but it won't help with this inflammation feeling.

I did 12 months of straight keto dieting years and years ago (before anyone even heard of keto let alone it being a 'fad').. and I remember feeling really good during that time.

I have no plans on going keto, thats a ridiculous diet for mass gains, but I'm really going to cut my carbs/sugars way back and time my foods and see if that helps with my inflammation issues. so not having chronic high blood sugar or insulin levels all day long , but just selecting a window of time for blood sugar spikes 

so for example - meal 1 , protein shake . meal 2, 4 whole eggs, 5oz ground beef, and some spinach .. meal 3, steak and veggies and one piece of fruit.. then post workout meal I'll have 2 cups of white rice or potatoes.. thats it. maybe last meal will have a slight amount of carbs as well

so we'll see.. fats are generally anti inflammatory , where as carbs/sugar are pro inflammatory . gonna try to keep pro inflammatory responses to mainly post workout when it matters , rather then all day long

note - this is just me and my situation currently -- ideally for gaining size your going to want carbs/sugars and elevated glucose all day long

----------


## GearHeaded

update - 
nothings working . drugs don't do shit.. 4 days in a row of hard training and I can barely move afterwards. I'm 15 pounds down from my normal on cycle weight. let alone trying to gain weight past that. 
my digestion is entirely F'd . my immune system is actually fighting against the food itself. I can't assimilate the nutrition. inflammation is out of control .

looks like I have a challenge in front of me that I can't just throw a bunch of drugs , food, and training at to fix . time to problem solve

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## HoldMyBeer

Starting to eliminate foods to see what's causing it? Or just going back to the standard chicken and rice (if that usually digests well for you)?

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## GearHeaded

> Starting to eliminate foods to see what's causing it? Or just going back to the standard chicken and rice (if that usually digests well for you)?


yes thats what I'm going to do . I'm going to eliminate pasta (rely on that a lot for bulking) and I'm going to cook all my veggies (rather then eating raw like I often do)..

funny thing is, the scale is not going up at all. the weights in the gym are not going up at all . but I did the ol mirror check today and my physique actually does look better (despite the stomach problems and super low cals) , so I guess something is working even though I "feel" like nothing is working

----------


## GearHeaded

just to put it in perspective ..

today my only meal has been 4 whole eggs, 1 cup of cooked spinach, 1 apple.
yesterday my only meal was 10oz of steak with cooked bell peppers

you can't grow off that , lol . but just trying to get these digestion issues under control. even if that means just one meal a day to test and see what foods are causing what issues

----------


## charger69

> yes thats what I'm going to do . I'm going to eliminate pasta (rely on that a lot for bulking) and I'm going to cook all my veggies (rather then eating raw like I often do)..
> 
> funny thing is, the scale is not going up at all. the weights in the gym are not going up at all . but I did the ol mirror check today and my physique actually does look better (despite the stomach problems and super low cals) , so I guess something is working even though I "feel" like nothing is working


Why cook the veggies rather than raw? I eat most of mine raw. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## GearHeaded

> Why cook the veggies rather than raw? I eat most of mine raw. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I prefer raw as well.

the problem with eating raw veggies is based on where your source them from. how they are processed. how you wash them once they are getting put on your table . etc etc.. 
raw veggies have led to a number of digestive issues across the board effecting millions of people..

simply taking those same veggies and baking them for 15 minutes can lead to way less digestive stress and kill way more contaminants then washing veggies in your sink with your dirty city water

----------


## HoldMyBeer

> I prefer raw as well.
> 
> the problem with eating raw veggies is based on where your source them from. how they are processed. how you wash them once they are getting put on your table . etc etc.. 
> raw veggies have led to a number of digestive issues across the board effecting millions of people..
> 
> simply taking those same veggies and baking them for 15 minutes can lead to way less digestive stress and kill way more contaminants then washing veggies in your sink with your dirty city water


I prefer raw too. I can't finish otherwise

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## Obs

> I prefer raw too. I can't finish otherwise


We still talking about veggies?

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## i_SLAM_cougars

> I prefer raw too. I can't finish otherwise


You shouldn’t be fucking vegetables in the first place. What if they come out of their coma and you’re the first thing they see?

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## Obs

> You shouldn’t be fucking vegetables in the first place. What if they come out of their coma and you’re the first thing they see?


Lmao!
Winner!

----------


## Family_guy

> You shouldn’t be fucking vegetables in the first place. What if they come out of their coma and you’re the first thing they see?


Ohh how clever!

----------


## GearHeaded

UPDATE-

ugh . thats all I gotta say. too much shit and not enough shovels.. I could go on about all my F'ing problems but we all got them so who cares.

SO can only focus on the plans going forward.

F_k this one meal per day shit I have been on. yes my digestion and IBS and stomach problems are a bit better , but my physique looks like dog shit right now. I've lost about 8 pounds of fullness. I'm super weak and soft.

I'm going to implement a modified 'carnivore' diet with multiple feedings per day. intermentant fasting can help with digestion thats for sure but it does not help with muscle retention. I've lost a lot of muscle even with the support of AAS in the background (doesn't help I've been sick as a dog, stressed out, and not getting any sleep)

so instead of this fasting BS , I'm going to go carnivore, but my own style.. I'll 'protein over feed' several times per day on animal products mainly (red meat preferred). this will take a lot of different foods out of my diet and allow me to maybe track whats causing me all the problems (rather then just restricting food to one meal per day) . I will add in some occasional veggies and fruit at select times only and a very rare carb re feed.

to put it in perspective most my meals will look something like 6oz of venison, 5 whole eggs, and some cheese (that was my breakfast today) . occasionally pre workout I might add in just one small piece of fruit, and post workout I may add in a carrot and beets and an occasional starch like a potato . but pretty much the bulk of every meal is going to be 'steak and eggs', or combining multiple animal products, like eating chicken with pork with cheese, or eggs plus bison, or deer plus chicken.
my meals will mainly consist of just mainly 2-3 animal sources of protein and thats about it.

this one meal per day and fasting bullshit is NOT working out


also with my training. I'm going to focus on getting strong. just some basic shit for now , nothing complicated. I have multiple injuries and problems but F it, I just want to get to feeling strong again

as for drugs .. came down with this stomach bug awhile ago , then suddenly went into a double ear infection and throat and glands issue. I stopped pinning my cycle a bit ago back.

I'm super soft and watery and weak and way down from my normal weight. I don't think I've had a good run of progress in a very long time

----------


## GearHeaded

this chest is shit and needs way more size ..

this back needs way more thickness and a ton more width


I need to start feeling better and pushing a lot more weight

----------


## GearHeaded

calves are on point , but that shit is easy to maintain compared to everything else 


hot wife is still on point I guess 


maybe I shouldn't be drinking anything but protein shakes eh

----------


## GearHeaded

for dinner I'm going to have a 4oz hamburger patty grilled with cheese on top, then a whole fried egg on top of that, with another 4oz hamburger patty on top of that with cheese as well . then I'm going to have 6oz of ground turkey for my side dish .. if I get the munchies later I'll snack on beef jerky or sausage

----------


## GearHeaded

my final thoughts being I'm ranting shit on my own stupid ass log

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yurz6KcGksw

----------


## kelkel

I forgot everything you said after the wife pic....

----------


## Charlie67

> I forgot everything you said after the wife pic....


Did he say something after the wife pic?

----------


## GearHeaded

so I weighed myself today .. I'm 30+ pounds down. I knew I was down but damn 30 pounds is a lot. and when I was 30 pounds heavier I was still lean with a fairly small waste.


so its not like I lost 30 pounds and got shredded from being fat. I'm just losing muscle I guess. I know my strength is way down.. I used to over head press 245 for reps and bench press 315 (and that was just 6 months post back surgeries). I'm not touching those kinda weights at all any more. heck hammer strength machine press was 5 plates per side for 8 reps,, now I'm barely hitting 2 and a half per side for reps.

I need to go get some blood work done. I know this digestion issues, ibs, inflammation, and inability to eat is fucking me over and causing most this weight loss and strength gains loss,, but shit I'm going down hill fast.

its time for a damn challenge I guess. gonna get my health checked out, but shit I need to gain 30+ pounds in 30 days.

I'll track my diet and training and my weight gains and strength gains here.. we'll see if I can do this or not.
diet is mainly going to be meat ( I need to sell a gun or something and take the funds and go by half a cow from my local rancher or plan a trip to Costco.. but I need to eat F'ing steak multiple times per day).

AAS .. idk. depends on my blood work. I'm just not assimilating grains and carbs very well. F's my stomach up and I get all inflamed and achy everywhere. so no insulin or hgh or anything like that. probably keep things simple and just run test and deca (which should help with inflammation).

going to be hard as hell to gain 30 pounds on limited carbs and no insulin. idk maybe I'll think of something, I've probably got a trick or two left up my sleeve

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars



----------


## GearHeaded

> 


sweet,, maybe health insurance will cover 6iu of HGH and some pharma deca

----------


## almostgone

> so I weighed myself today .. I'm 30+ pounds down. I knew I was down but damn 30 pounds is a lot. and when I was 30 pounds heavier I was still lean with a fairly small waste.
> 
> 
> so its not like I lost 30 pounds and got shredded from being fat. I'm just losing muscle I guess. I know my strength is way down.. I used to over head press 245 for reps and bench press 315 (and that was just 6 months post back surgeries). I'm not touching those kinda weights at all any more. heck hammer strength machine press was 5 plates per side for 8 reps,, now I'm barely hitting 2 and a half per side for reps.
> 
> I need to go get some blood work done. I know this digestion issues, ibs, inflammation, and inability to eat is fucking me over and causing most this weight loss and strength gains loss,, but shit I'm going down hill fast.
> 
> its time for a damn challenge I guess. gonna get my health checked out, but shit I need to gain 30+ pounds in 30 days.
> 
> ...


Is it all grain/carbs, or can you handle slow cooked oats and cream of rice?

Definitely get the issue identified, but don't let them throw celiac disease at you as a diagnosis unless you feel comfortable with that as the issue. 

Personally, I feel that is the fallback excuse of lots of internists and Drs. when there are other factors in play. I'm not saying celiac is a bogus/ imaginary condition, it just seems to be the "diagnosis of the day" right now.

----------


## GearHeaded

> Is it all grain/carbs, or can you handle slow cooked oats and cream of rice?
> 
> Definitely get the issue identified, but don't let them throw celiac disease at you as a diagnosis unless you feel comfortable with that as the issue. 
> 
> Personally, I feel that is the fallback excuse of lots of internists and Drs. when there are other factors in play. I'm not saying celiac is a bogus/ imaginary condition, it just seems to be the "diagnosis of the day" right now.


from what I can tell thus far .. cream of rice seems to be ok, as does rice Chex cereal, white rice and white potato. oatmeal, bread, pasta cause issues . also I've notice high amounts of fats cause problems too, especially if combined with carbs. lets say I had a really fatty cut of meat, then had mash potatoes with lots of gravy, then had bread with that,, a couple hours later I'd get some bad gallbladder area pain that may last for days.

which sucks because fats are the best way for me to get in sufficient calories being I'm not able to eat very much right now.
theres no way I can get enough cals in from just chicken and rice. even though that very well could be the best for my digestion right now, idk..
I may try something with macro intake and timing .. so one meal will be a very lean protein source with some carbs. then another meal I'll have a fattier protein source with no carbs and maybe add some veggies . try to separate fats and carbs as much as I can (even though combing fats and carbs together is one of the best ways to grow especially for guys with fast metabolisms)..


in regards to celiac . I agree with you. its over blown and a diagnosis thats just easy to throw out there.. when in reality we've all been eating grains for thousands of years, how the heck do I just wake up one day at 42 years old and have a gluten allergy.

I'll likely have to do private blood work and do my own diagnosis though. going through a doc is going to be pricey as heck and I'm currently in a financial jam

----------


## almostgone

I like the idea of the macro segregation. A guy I worked with had some horrible intestinal issues, pain, irritable bowels, etc. His first Dr immediately diagnosed him as gluten intolerant/ having celiac disease simply via a visual examination. I encouraged him to fire that Dr and go to a internist. They ran some blood and fecal labs and it ended up all he needed was to be on a bile binder for a few months until the condition abated. 

Please update with progress and thoughts on your issue, GH.  :Smilie:

----------


## HoldMyBeer

> I like the idea of the macro segregation. A guy I worked with had some horrible intestinal issues, pain, irritable bowels, etc. His first Dr immediately diagnosed him as gluten intolerant/ having celiac disease simply via a visual examination. I encouraged him to fire that Dr and go to a internist. They ran some blood and fecal labs and it ended up all he needed was to be on a bile binder for a few months until the condition abated. 
> 
> Please update with progress and thoughts on your issue, GH.


Good idea. I have heard a few times the combination of fats and carbs can cause issues

----------


## GearHeaded

> Good idea. I have heard a few times the combination of fats and carbs can cause issues


decided I'm just going to pull the carbs out for now and go Keto for a bit .. which I'm NOT a fan of for bodybuilding purposes or strength gains, but I've done it several times before and always felt really good health wise on it. about 7 years ago I did keto for a year. didn't make any gains at all, thats partly why I've been a high carb and insulin advocate (I made way more progress with high carbs)
but feeling better is the ultimate goal right now. if going keto helps out and I'm able to get down plenty of food then I'll do keto in a surplus, blast a cycle, and see if I can grow at all on it.

if after a bit I'm feeling better I may switch over to cyclical keto. and once a week or so have a carb meal post workout just to replenish glycogen stores. muscle glycogen doesn't throw you out of ketosis because its glucose that is 'trapped' within muscle cells and it can only be used by that muscle cell for energy (it can't be released back in the blood stream).. so your liver is still producing ketones and your brain is still running on Ketones for fuel (thats all ketosis is anyways) but you can still have muscle glycogen stores.


and at some point , heck I may play around with insulin with keto. the interesting thing about using insulin when in ketosis is that you can't really ever go hypo (again your brain is running on ketones and not glucose).

----------


## HoldMyBeer

> decided I'm just going to pull the carbs out for now and go Keto for a bit .. which I'm NOT a fan of for bodybuilding purposes or strength gains, but I've done it several times before and always felt really good health wise on it. about 7 years ago I did keto for a year. didn't make any gains at all, thats partly why I've been a high carb and insulin advocate (I made way more progress with high carbs)
> but feeling better is the ultimate goal right now. if going keto helps out and I'm able to get down plenty of food then I'll do keto in a surplus, blast a cycle, and see if I can grow at all on it.
> 
> if after a bit I'm feeling better I may switch over to cyclical keto. and once a week or so have a carb meal post workout just to replenish glycogen stores. muscle glycogen doesn't throw you out of ketosis because its glucose that is 'trapped' within muscle cells and it can only be used by that muscle cell for energy (it can't be released back in the blood stream).. so your liver is still producing ketones and your brain is still running on Ketones for fuel (thats all ketosis is anyways) but you can still have muscle glycogen stores.
> 
> 
> and at some point , heck I may play around with insulin with keto. the interesting thing about using insulin when in ketosis is that you can't really ever go hypo (again your brain is running on ketones and not glucose).


Makes sense. I hope it works out. I just hears fuad talking about, with feroce in his last podcast, only having carbs peri-workout
I tried keto a few times. Killed my enjoyment at the gym. But health comes first!

----------


## GearHeaded

> Makes sense. I hope it works out. I just hears fuad talking about, with feroce in his last podcast, only having carbs peri-workout
> I tried keto a few times. Killed my enjoyment at the gym. But health comes first!


yeah who would of thought that the "chicken and rice mother F'ers" guy would ever go keto . guess he's lost about 10 pounds, which is NOT his goal. he's just losing a lot of glycogen and water . this is why I think doing cyclical keto and doing a carb re-feed once per week post workout when glut 4 levels are high can help keep glycogen in muscle tissue without throwing you out of ketosis, which in turn will still help you stay full and maintain some strength in the gym .. of course you have to get in to ketosis first. you can't re-feed until after that point.

its at this re-feed meal once per week that I'd use exogenous insulin and try to super compensate glycogen stores

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## HoldMyBeer

> yeah who would of thought that the "chicken and rice mother F'ers" guy would ever go keto . guess he's lost about 10 pounds, which is NOT his goal. he's just losing a lot of glycogen and water . this is why I think doing cyclical keto and doing a carb re-feed once per week post workout when glut 4 levels are high can help keep glycogen in muscle tissue without throwing you out of ketosis, which in turn will still help you stay full and maintain some strength in the gym .. of course you have to get in to ketosis first. you can't re-feed until after that point.
> 
> its at this re-feed meal once per week that I'd use exogenous insulin and try to super compensate glycogen stores


True
I have also heard of carb refeeding every 4th day. 
Apparently there is some study somewhere that says it takes 3 days to deplete glycogen stores on average. So someone took that and said to maximize gym performance on such a diet to refeed carbs every 4th day.... Sounds good ... Idk how well it works in practice

----------


## GearHeaded

ok so begins the keto ..

last night meal 
8oz ground Italian sausage
tomatoes cooked and smothered in mozzarella cheese
spinach salad with a half can of olives and olive oil dressing

fasted for 15 hours

meal 1 today
4 eggs scrambled with cheese and milk and oil
4oz ground turkey
small bowl cottage cheese
1 carrot


will do an hour of cardio and a light weight depletion style weight session today (the more active you are the faster you'll get into ketosis)

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## IronLiver

> ok so begins the keto ..
> 
> last night meal 
> 8oz ground Italian sausage
> tomatoes cooked and smothered in mozzarella cheese
> spinach salad with a half can of olives and olive oil dressing
> 
> fasted for 15 hours
> 
> ...


Maybe try cooking the egg whites in raw butter instead of oils and adding the yolks and cheese in at the end to preserve more of the nutrients. After I started doing this I began feeling 100x better in the mornings. Also, I started adding a little bit of beef liver to my meals, which I would highly recommend as well.

----------


## GearHeaded

was able to get 4 full meals in yesterday. digestion and stomach issues are not totally out of whack.

last few Keto meals have been 

8 oz Italian sausage
1 tomato
handful of mozzarella cheese
mixed greens salad with beets and olives

8 oz of fish
bowl of mixed nuts

4oz of chicken with cooked carrots in a 1/2 cup of chicken broth
small bowl of cottage cheese 

then started today off with

5 whole eggs scrambled with milk, cheese, spinach
6 oz of "organic" ham


note - you may notice me eating a lot of pork (even though I prefer red meat and steak). its all "organic" in that it was all wild boar hunted, killed, and butchered . I've got a freezer full of dead boar to eat up.


also of note - most guys will generally think that during times of some health issues and when diet or training are not really on point its not a good idea to take gear . I'm thinking the opposite here. when in a calorie deficit and your training is weak you have more chance of losing muscle (heck most steroids were invented to help sick people maintain or even build muscle) . 
so I've lost 30 pounds already through this crap . so as I transition into a new diet and figure out my digestion and stomach problems I'm going to go ahead and run something small

500 test
250 deca 
350 Mast 
25mg Winstrol - mon-friday only 
50mg dbol 50mg anadrol - Saturday - Sunday only 


I will be having my carb re-feeds on Saturdays. Androl and Dbol will be ran on the weekend only to help partition nutrients, load glycogen, hydrate cells, store minerals and electrolytes ,, etc.. along with the Carbs


^ this was NOT my plan at all a month or two ago. was planning on blasting a fairly big cycle with wet compounds and Tren . but health issues have changed that.. gotta be willing to make changes on the fly . the whole idea that you have to have one "fixed" or set cycle for 12 weeks and stick to that only I don't agree with. theres no issues swapping out compounds and going in a completely different way (I do it all the time with clients as well depending on progress)

----------


## IronLiver

My digestion issues disappeared when I started eating more raw meats like steak Tartare and organs, which are the most digestible foods on the planet. My skin problems vanished and my anxiety and depression vanished as well. Like most people, I was brainwashed into belieivng that raw meat, eggs, organs, etc. are bad and vegetable and fruits are good for you. There are many many many studies that show how toxic plants are to humans and there are no essential nutrients in seeds, plants and fruits that can't be found in animal products.

If you want to improve your digestion then I would definitely recommend excluding all plant products, nuts, and seeds for a while. Try it for a few days... When I eat nuts I just crap them out whole like corn. Nuts and seeds are for the most part indigestible. Try getting a lot more saturated fats from raw butter, raw egg yolk and raw whole milk and I guarantee you that your digestion problems will disappear in 2-3 days. I've helped people with digestion issues cure them pretty much overnight by following a diet like this. 

It's best to try and have as natural of a diet as possible. In nature, you won't find fruits, nuts, seeds year round. You would never eat spinach unless someone told you that it's healthy. Nobody likes the taste of raw spinach... When something tastes like crap, it's a warning by our body that it shouldn't be eaten. You can watch children being fed broccoli and they will cry and not want it. When you give them raw meats they will smile and eat all of it. This is because its our natural diet and babies instictviely know this. 

Anyways, just try to keep an open mind and there's so much we still don't know about nutrition... I've been on the most extreme diets over the past 15 years and spent nearly all my time studying nutrition. There's always more to learn but the closer you get to our true diets for optimal health, the less information you will find...

----------


## charger69

> was able to get 4 full meals in yesterday. digestion and stomach issues are not totally out of whack.
> 
> last few Keto meals have been 
> 
> 8 oz Italian sausage
> 1 tomato
> handful of mozzarella cheese
> mixed greens salad with beets and olives
> 
> ...


Please explain the mast and Winnie in the cycle and why only on Saturday and Sunday for the dbol and drol 


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## Obs

> My digestion issues disappeared when I started eating more raw meats like steak Tartare and organs, which are the most digestible foods on the planet. My skin problems vanished and my anxiety and depression vanished as well. Like most people, I was brainwashed into belieivng that raw meat, eggs, organs, etc. are bad and vegetable and fruits are good for you. There are many many many studies that show how toxic plants are to humans and there are no essential nutrients in seeds, plants and fruits that can't be found in animal products.
> 
> If you want to improve your digestion then I would definitely recommend excluding all plant products, nuts, and seeds for a while. Try it for a few days... When I eat nuts I just crap them out whole like corn. Nuts and seeds are for the most part indigestible. Try getting a lot more saturated fats from raw butter, raw egg yolk and raw whole milk and I guarantee you that your digestion problems will disappear in 2-3 days. I've helped people with digestion issues cure them pretty much overnight by following a diet like this. 
> 
> It's best to try and have as natural of a diet as possible. In nature, you won't find fruits, nuts, seeds year round. You would never eat spinach unless someone told you that it's healthy. Nobody likes the taste of raw spinach... When something tastes like crap, it's a warning by our body that it shouldn't be eaten. You can watch children being fed broccoli and they will cry and not want it. When you give them raw meats they will smile and eat all of it. This is because its our natural diet and babies instictviely know this. 
> 
> Anyways, just try to keep an open mind and there's so much we still don't know about nutrition... I've been on the most extreme diets over the past 15 years and spent nearly all my time studying nutrition. There's always more to learn but the closer you get to our true diets for optimal health, the less information you will find...


I agree but optimal diet is the most person dependant thing that can be found. 
You name it and someone ran it as a diet and swears it changed their life. 

A guy recently was pulled over by police acting drunk. He was given a breathalyzer test which blew three times over the limit. 


He swore he hadnt been drinking and was furious. 

It turned out he was telling the truth. 
He had in the past taken an antibiotic that killed off the wrong enzyme in his body. 
Yeast was literally growing in his stomach breaking down cabs into alcohol. 

Now from a bodybuilders standpoint...

How many of those carbs were turned into energy rather than alcohol?


You can speculate.

What would his optimal diet have been?

You can speculate. 

Now consuder a lack of wheat digestion enzymes or a slightly lowered ability to process amino acids or bcaa's.

Well wtf do we have here... 

Everyones digestion is entirely different in terms of optimization and the only way to determine "optimal" is by trial and error in the specific individual.

Not to brag but this post needs to be the #1 sticky in the diet section.

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## HoldMyBeer

> Please explain the mast and Winnie in the cycle and why only on Saturday and Sunday for the dbol and drol 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He's taking orals? That could definitely fuck up his digestion

----------


## GearHeaded

> He's taking orals? That could definitely fuck up his digestion


to put it in perspective, one winstrol pill weighs like 1 gram .. compare that to the thousands and thousands of grams, ie, pounds, of food you put into your stomach. weight for weight which one is likely to be causing issues ?
its not the aas orals believe me. I have not been on oral aas and my stomach is the most jacked its ever been. I have no problem adding a small amount in because oral aas rarely effect peoples digestion. maybe 1 out of 100 guys get a little bit of heart burn or something but thats about it.. your more likely to get a F'd up stomach from pre workout or creatine then you are from oral AAS

----------


## Myers

> to put it in perspective, one winstrol pill weighs like 1 gram .. compare that to the thousands and thousands of grams, ie, pounds, of food you put into your stomach. weight for weight which one is likely to be causing issues ?
> its not the aas orals believe me. I have not been on oral aas and my stomach is the most jacked its ever been. I have no problem adding a small amount in because oral aas rarely effect peoples digestion. maybe 1 out of 100 guys get a little bit of heart burn or something but thats about it.. your more likely to get a F'd up stomach from pre workout or creatine then you are from oral AAS


Im having recent issues with grains, oats, breads, if i eat them i crap 4 5 times a day and its always sludge like lol, i also fart horrible, if i throw out grains im fine, so now i just eat tons of potatoes lol till it soothes out

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## GearHeaded

> Please explain the mast and Winnie in the cycle and why only on Saturday and Sunday for the dbol and drol


Winstrol is only 25mg and its taken 5 days a week to help blunt Cortisol. which I think is extremely high right now with my lack of sleep and all the stress I have going on . Winstrol is one of the only AAS that does not just blunt cortisol receptors (like some other AAS do) it actually blunts cortisol production itself at the adrenal gland (thats why guys get achy joints on winny,, no cortisol)

however this does not just happen with one dose , you have to keep consistent levels to get that effect, so thats why I'm taking it 5 days per week.


as for Adrol and Dbol . those drugs do exactly what they do from one single dose. you don't need consistent blood levels. thats why Dbol is so popular as a pre workout. it just works from one single dose.
thats why I'm only taking them on the weekends around my high carb re-feed day . to help drive nutrients, glycogen, water, minerals, etc. into the muscle cells when I have the carbs to do that.. once these two drugs do that, I'm done. I don't need to take these drugs all week long. just using them for a specific purpose.

oral AAS can be used for specific purposes guys.. most of them you don't have to run day in and day out for weeks on end like your so used to doing with oils.
again look at what I'm doing .. I'm using winstrol at a low dose 5 days a week just to blunt cortisol and thats it.. using Adrol/Dbol for carb re-feeds only.


you can open up your medicine cabinet and have Var, Primo tabs, Winny tabs, Dbol, Adrol, Tbol, Proviron , etc.. all sitting there. you do NOT just have to pick ONE only and stick with it for 6 weeks. thats not how these drugs work

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## GearHeaded

intersting --

my blood pressure has been really high lately (for months) a week ago was 160/100 upon waking . today , after going no carb for 3 days, BP was 120/77. kinda weird

I also did an hour of cardio yesterday on the treadmill and I kept bumping up the incline and the pace cause it was just so damn easy

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## i_SLAM_cougars

> intersting --
> 
> my blood pressure has been really high lately (for months) a week ago was 160/100 upon waking . today , after going no carb for 3 days, BP was 120/77. kinda weird
> 
> I also did an hour of cardio yesterday on the treadmill and I kept bumping up the incline and the pace cause it was just so damn easy


The guys back in the 60s and 70s ate more of a high protein, high fat, low carb diet, and they all seemed pretty healthy and athletic compared to the modern guys who always look like they’re exerting some effort trying not to die. Maybe you’re onto something...

How’s the digestion handling it?

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## HoldMyBeer

> to put it in perspective, one winstrol pill weighs like 1 gram .. compare that to the thousands and thousands of grams, ie, pounds, of food you put into your stomach. weight for weight which one is likely to be causing issues ?
> its not the aas orals believe me. I have not been on oral aas and my stomach is the most jacked its ever been. I have no problem adding a small amount in because oral aas rarely effect peoples digestion. maybe 1 out of 100 guys get a little bit of heart burn or something but thats about it.. your more likely to get a F'd up stomach from pre workout or creatine then you are from oral AAS


I see what you're saying. All I know, is there have been a few times taking orals it completely fucked up my digestion, and stopping fixed it. Same exact food through the whole process

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## i_SLAM_cougars

> I see what you're saying. All I know, is there have been a few times taking orals it completely fucked up my digestion, and stopping fixed it. Same exact food through the whole process


Drol does give me some pretty wicked heartburn, but so does a lot of things. I’m in a sticky situation since they took Zantac off the market.

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## HoldMyBeer

> Drol does give me some pretty wicked heartburn, but so does a lot of things. Im in a sticky situation since they took Zantac off the market.


Prilosec used to work for me. Idk if that got taken off too

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## kelkel

> probably keep things simple and just run test and deca (which should help with inflammation).



Always a winner. Just can't go wrong with that combo.

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## kelkel

> Prilosec used to work for me. Idk if that got taken off too


Prilosec and its generics are readily available.

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## charger69

> Winstrol is only 25mg and its taken 5 days a week to help blunt Cortisol. which I think is extremely high right now with my lack of sleep and all the stress I have going on . Winstrol is one of the only AAS that does not just blunt cortisol receptors (like some other AAS do) it actually blunts cortisol production itself at the adrenal gland (thats why guys get achy joints on winny,, no cortisol)
> 
> however this does not just happen with one dose , you have to keep consistent levels to get that effect, so thats why I'm taking it 5 days per week.
> 
> 
> as for Adrol and Dbol . those drugs do exactly what they do from one single dose. you don't need consistent blood levels. thats why Dbol is so popular as a pre workout. it just works from one single dose.
> thats why I'm only taking them on the weekends around my high carb re-feed day . to help drive nutrients, glycogen, water, minerals, etc. into the muscle cells when I have the carbs to do that.. once these two drugs do that, I'm done. I don't need to take these drugs all week long. just using them for a specific purpose.
> 
> oral AAS can be used for specific purposes guys.. most of them you don't have to run day in and day out for weeks on end like your so used to doing with oils.
> ...


I would have thought that you would use slin for the cortisol. 


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## GearHeaded

> I would have thought that you would use slin for the cortisol.


but I'm taking in zero carbs or sugar .. I'm going to eventually experiment with insulin on a keto diet, but winstrol right now is going to be way more effective at blunting cortisol then insulin while I'm in ketosis

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## i_SLAM_cougars

> Prilosec used to work for me. Idk if that got taken off too


It’s still around but you’re only supposed to take it for 14 day’s every 3 months I believe. However those 14 days do me right for sure. Been managing with Pepcid.

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## charger69

> Prilosec used to work for me. Idk if that got taken off too


Baking soda works great for me. A teaspoon in water and no more worries. 


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## GearHeaded

blood pressure was 118/77 this morning .. heck a week ago I'm 150s over 100 . how the heck can my blood pressure drop to normal range just from pulling carbs out of my diet for 4 days. weird. anyone else ever do keto and notice a dramatic improvement in blood pressure ?

I don't have a keto meter, but pretty sure I'm in ketosis. my last cardio session was an hour and it was easy and felt I had endless energy (which is basically how I felt everyday when I did keto 7 years ago)


digestion is better. I don't have that gallbladder pain I used to get when I would have a carb heavy meal along side fats. that shit would keep me up at night it would get so bad.

I had fasted for about 28 hours. then my next meal was last night , steak and veggies. thats it. thats all I've had in the last couple days.

so don't know if its the fasting or simply the lack of carbs thats helping.. I'm doing both keto and interment fasting for now to help both my digestion and to get into ketosis faster.
when I feel things are on point I will start ramping up the food. stop the fasting, and eventually get into a "keto bulk". see how much lean gains I can make while doing keto

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## GearHeaded

so yes digestion and stomach issues are a bit better now.. but heck I weighed myself today. I'm down 32 pounds from what I was last year at this time. and last year at this time I was fairly lean and not super bulked up.

I need to stop worrying about the scale. but man thats a lot of weight to lose. will be interesting to see how a 'keto bulk' does while on cycle

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## GearHeaded

this is me with high carbs 




I really have no clue what the heck this keto bulk is going to have me looking like . uncharted territory for me guys . I've always been high carb focused for bodybuilding

----------


## GearHeaded

interesting this vid just popped up on you tube 




I disagree with pretty much everything this guy says. but still interesting his client is bulking up and getting huge on keto (I just think he has the science and biology behind what he is saying all F'd up and has not got a clue .. the anecdotal evidence is working despite his ignorance)

----------


## GearHeaded

not sure exactly what day of Keto this is , but this is what I've noticed

my digestion is way better. I'm way more regular as well.

also, I just realized I've not had to take a Zantac or Prevacid at all in the last like 4 days. no heartburn. and I've struggle with that for years. my blood pressure as stated is staying low as well.

my waist is smaller and tighter. 

my post meal blood sugar was really low , 84 (thats 1.5 hours after eating a meal). heck on a high carb diet I wasn't even that low fasted in the morning

I shot a little bit of masteron and test . have not taken winny or anything else just yet. 


the negative -
I don't have much of an appetite (may be hard to bulk on keto)
I'm super flat and weak in the gym (but damn I tell you I can easily bust out an hour of cardio no problem)


edit - oh yeah I drank quite a bit of whisky last night . not sure how that effects keto or not. I know alcohol sugars are metabolized different then starches

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## Gallowmere

Your stated negative was why I abandoned my one attempt at keto bulking. My lifts just sucked complete shit, and I was still in the noob gains stage, which just kinda proves to me that beginners can do anything and itll work is bullshit. As soon as I went from 200g fat/day and sub-25g carbs to 45g fat and 300g carbs, my shit started jumping through the roof in half the time. Amusing that I was also consuming less total kcals, and the weight gain slowed after the initial glycogen restoration jump.

And for the people who were abloobloo fat adaptation, I had been using keto to cut down from 200 to 150 for about 8 months prior. If 8 months isnt enough time, fat adaptation is nonsense.

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## GearHeaded

> Your stated negative was why I abandoned my one attempt at keto bulking. My lifts just sucked complete shit, and I was still in the “noob gains” stage, which just kinda proves to me that “beginners can do anything and it’ll work” is bullshit. As soon as I went from 200g fat/day and sub-25g carbs to 45g fat and 300g carbs, my shit started jumping through the roof in half the time. Amusing that I was also consuming less total kcals, and the weight gain slowed after the initial glycogen restoration jump.
> 
> And for the people who were “abloobloo fat adaptation”, I had been using keto to cut down from 200 to 150 for about 8 months prior. If 8 months isn’t enough time, “fat adaptation” is nonsense.


this is exactly why I'm probably going to do a once per week post workout carb re-feed with 15iu of insulin . just to replenish glycogen.. if I can time things right and use the exact right amount of carbs, I likely won't spill over and knock myself out of ketosis (not that important really though) . muscle glycogen, even when totally full, does not knock you out of ketosis. the glucose in muscle can only be used for energy within the muscle cell its stored, it can't be released back into the blood stream and used for energy by the brain (thats what knocks you out of ketosis, the brain using glucose instead of ketones).
we'll see if pumps and strength is ok doing that.


what type of drugs/AAS were you running while doing keto ?


I'm hopeful with the right pharmacology and AAS wizardry at my disposal I can make a keto bulk work . I'm definitely going to need to get some more MK677 and get my appetite revving again though

----------


## Gallowmere

> this is exactly why I'm probably going to do a once per week post workout carb re-feed with 15iu of insulin . just to replenish glycogen.. if I can time things right and use the exact right amount of carbs, I likely won't spill over and knock myself out of ketosis (not that important really though) . muscle glycogen, even when totally full, does not knock you out of ketosis. the glucose in muscle can only be used for energy within the muscle cell its stored, it can't be released back into the blood stream and used for energy by the brain (thats what knocks you out of ketosis, the brain using glucose instead of ketones).
> we'll see if pumps and strength is ok doing that.
> 
> 
> what type of drugs/AAS were you running while doing keto ?
> 
> 
> I'm hopeful with the right pharmacology and AAS wizardry at my disposal I can make a keto bulk work . I'm definitely going to need to get some more MK677 and get my appetite revving again though


None. This was before I even knew that I was hypogonadal. In retrospect, I find it amusing that even without any of the nutrient partitioning benefits of AAS (or even TRT in my case), that keto was such a performance killer in the noobie stage.

Granted, drugs may change the picture, but in my own experience, its great for a cutting strategy, but all it did was make me fat, weak and slow when compared to a carb-centric approach for surplus.

----------


## GearHeaded

> None. This was before I even knew that I was hypogonadal. In retrospect, I find it amusing that even without any of the nutrient partitioning benefits of AAS (or even TRT in my case), that keto was such a performance killer in the noobie stage.
> 
> Granted, drugs may change the picture, but in my own experience, it’s great for a cutting strategy, but all it did was make me fat, weak and slow when compared to a carb-centric approach for surplus.


I've been 'carb-centric' for sure . of the 40 or so clients I have , they are ALL on a carb focused diet for the most part (expect one that is keto, but he's a long distance runner).

most my posts in the diet section are me pounding guys with carbs, hgh, and insulin . for strength performance and growth, thats the key . got guys that are only 190 pounds slamming 600g of carbs and 30iu of slin and 6iu of hgh per day.

I've said on numerous occasions. carbs and insulin are the most anabolic substances , not protein. they are also the best performance and strength enhancers .

so me going keto myself is a huge change from my actual bodybuilding philosophy (but I have done keto for almost a year about 7 years ago but that wasn't for bodybuilding)

----------


## GearHeaded

> None. This was before I even knew that I was hypogonadal. In retrospect, I find it amusing that even without any of the nutrient partitioning benefits of AAS (or even TRT in my case), that keto was such a performance killer in the noobie stage.
> 
> Granted, drugs may change the picture, but in my own experience, it’s great for a cutting strategy, but all it did was make me fat, weak and slow when compared to a carb-centric approach for surplus.


heck I'd be really curious to see what your Keto experience would of been like, as a new lifter, IF .. you have a bodybuilding/hypertrophy focused routine , got your hypogonadism fixed and ran 800mg of test per week , and did a 150g carb re-feed post workout once per week with 15iu of slin.. <-- nothing fancy there really (I'd also add in 25mg of MK677 with that)

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## Gallowmere

Ive been curious to try it again at some point, but Ive just never been able to justify the strength loss. Im an oddity here though. I dont give as much of a shit about how I look, and its more just a consequence of my chasing strength and endurance.

Ive had people ask why I just dont get Iron Bibby back titty fat then, and all I can say is that crap only works for geared powerlifting, where squeezing a fat ass into a squat suit does wonders (geared deads are a joke even compared to reasonably strong raw guys in the same weight classes).

----------


## GearHeaded

> I’ve been curious to try it again at some point, but I’ve just never been able to justify the strength loss. I’m an oddity here though. I don’t give as much of a shit about how I look, and it’s more just a consequence of my chasing strength and endurance.
> 
> I’ve had people ask why I just don’t get Iron Bibby back titty fat then, and all I can say is that crap only works for geared powerlifting, where squeezing a fat ass into a squat suit does wonders (geared deads are a joke even compared to reasonably strong raw guys in the same weight classes).


yeah I see where your coming from . for raw strength and powerlifting , carbs are the way to go . even the extra water retention can help with leverages , let alone the much faster ATP turnover with glucose (super beneficial for strength training sessions)

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## Gallowmere

> yeah I see where your coming from . for raw strength and powerlifting , carbs are the way to go . even the extra water retention can help with leverages , let alone the much faster ATP turnover with glucose (super beneficial for strength training sessions)


Absolutely. Im currently running Wendlers Krypteia program, and Im pretty sure I would fail miserably on it with keto.

For example, this was my squat day this week, and I managed to just barely beat the 45 minute time limit due to a respiratory infection.

Back Squat: 1x135/5x185/5x225/5x265/5x310/5x350/5x390/5x5x310
Dips: 6x15
Pullups: 5x10
Time: 42:56

----------


## Obs

> Absolutely. I’m currently running Wendler’s Krypteia program, and I’m pretty sure I would fail miserably on it with keto.
> 
> For example, this was my squat day this week, and I managed to just barely beat the 45 minute time limit due to a respiratory infection.
> 
> Back Squat: 1x135/5x185/5x225/5x265/5x310/5x350/5x390/5x5x310
> Dips: 6x15
> Pullups: 5x10
> Time: 42:56


Great to see you back Gallowmere.

We have all been busy as hell this year. 
Looks like a super busy november ahead too

----------


## HoldMyBeer

> Absolutely. Im currently running Wendlers Krypteia program, and Im pretty sure I would fail miserably on it with keto.
> 
> For example, this was my squat day this week, and I managed to just barely beat the 45 minute time limit due to a respiratory infection.
> 
> Back Squat: 1x135/5x185/5x225/5x265/5x310/5x350/5x390/5x5x310
> Dips: 6x15
> Pullups: 5x10
> Time: 42:56


Isn't that a horse in elder scrolls? (Gallowmere)

----------


## Gallowmere

> Isn't that a horse in elder scrolls? (Gallowmere)


Not sure, but the name actually came from the old PSX game Medi-evil. It was the name of the town central to the plot involving a necromancer.

I stole it and started using it as my username on battle.net when I was primarily an undead player in Warcraft 3. Then carried it over to my undead warlock in WoW, and it just stuck from there.

----------


## GearHeaded

so I made italian food last night . I purposely shredded some zucchini to use as my "pasta" . but the kids are not going to eat that so I still have to make some pasta noodles for them . well shit it looked so damn good I had to have some too.

stomach is all jacked up today and I feel like crap . clearly pasta does not do me well . if I do end up doing a carb re-feed at some point I'm just going to try white rice . no pasta (which sucks cause I love pasta)

I'm half temped to just run a gram of Tren on this Keto diet and see what the heck happens

----------


## GearHeaded

I always appreciate this type of content in bodybuilding industry

----------


## GearHeaded

Brandon Beckrich , a national level NPC competitor . he's 260 pounds a week out from a show. doing cyclical Keto (he does keto and carb re-feeds once a week or so). he looks massive and full for a guy on Keto (I would have guess high carbs, insulin and hgh)

----------


## GearHeaded

so starting Monday going to transition into a keto bulk . been doing this intermentent fasting and 2 meal per day shit and some keto for a bit now. digestion is better other then that pasta cheat meal that totally F'd me up.

so going to ease into a bulk with Keto.. also , even though it sounds counter productive when on keto , I'm going to try to get some strength back . I know if I can hit 245 pound over head press for 3 reps and a 295 incline bench press for 5 reps , my physique will follow.
just gotta get back there

----------


## GearHeaded

but shit .. I've already lost this much weight and I'm totally depleted right now , maybe I should just finish the process and get shredded.

eh . who cares though. being strong is way more rewarding then being shredded and makes training more fun

----------


## Gallowmere

> being strong is way more rewarding then being shredded and makes training more fun


Say it once more for the people in the back.  :Wink:

----------


## kelkel

> Brandon Beckrich , a national level NPC competitor . he's 260 pounds a week out from a show. doing cyclical Keto (he does keto and carb re-feeds once a week or so). he looks massive and full for a guy on Keto (I would have guess high carbs, insulin and hgh)



Damn impressive!

----------


## Charlie67

> being strong is way more rewarding then being shredded and makes training more fun


That's the eternal debate... Strong versus Jacked.... Although I'd argue that any physique that catches my eye is probably owned by someone who is already relatively strong. Or at least strong enough.

As I knock on 50's door, it's harder to maintain size and physique, than strength.

I spend 6-7 hours a week in the gym... I spend way more time NOT in the gym. No one has ever came up to me and said 'damn your strong'. They have said "damn you look strong'.

----------


## GearHeaded

Training update -

so on Sunday I started a new training phase with an emphasis on strength . will be doing a push, legs, pull, focused around the main lifts and compound movements with some accessory work thrown in. the workouts always start with technique work and training for the "movement" first.

so heres what the push session looked like

Bench Press - worked on technique work with sets of 5 reps .. did around 12 sets. only worked up to a very light (for me) 225 for sets of 5 . I'm going to slowly be increasing strength through this phase so I gotta hold myself back a bit, also need to save my shoulders which have issues

Overhead Press - did 3 non working sets . then did 2 sets of 185 by 5. and finished with a 20 rep back off set with light weight

Incline Bench Press - 6 sets of 8. time under tension focus here. did a very slow eccentric, then held the bar about 1" off my chest and paused and held it there then slowly pressed back up. only used 135 here (focused on contraction of the pecs , not moving the weight)

compound work done .. then moved on and did more high rep bodybuilding focus and superset dumbbell chest press, with lateral raises and front raises.. did 3 rounds of that . then moved on to a bit of tricep work 

pretty simple shit . over the last 6 months or so I've gotten pretty damn weak.. between the busy summer and not hitting the gym much and between staying away from compound movements and mainly doing isolation and pump workouts I've lost a lot of strength.


on a side note - the day that I did this workout I also did two cardio sessions, one 50 mins and one 25 mins , I also spent hours shoveling snow and breaking up ice . I seem to have endless energy on Keto, especially in regards to cardio/endurance

----------


## GearHeaded

so the Keto bulk began Monday -
its starting off moderately and I'll increase the amount of food over time. right now I'm just trying to get 5 protein feedings in per day

meal 1 - whey shake in 2 cups full fat milk 

meal 2 - 5 whole eggs with cheese, 5 pieces of turkey bacon, bowl of cottage cheese

meal 3 - 16 oz of ground sirloin (2 burger patties)

meal 4 - two 5oz pieces of fish with mixed veggies 

meal 5 - 10oz of roast with green beans with butter


this is more of a modified high protein keto then a traditional keto . stomach and digestion feel fine so far today.

today I've hit my morning protein shake.. having black coffee now and then going to go hit 50 mins of cardio

----------


## GearHeaded

as for AAS . very light

350mg Mast
250mg Deca 
500mg Test


I know if I add in Tren and Dbol /Anadrol , my strength will go way up . but I'm holding myself back for now. get my joints accustomed to the compound movements again first .

as mentioned earlier, I still may add in 25mg winny mon- fri , and 50mg Anadrol on the weekends when I carb load , at some point

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

> as for AAS . very light
> 
> 350mg Mast
> 250mg Deca 
> 500mg Test
> 
> 
> I know if I add in Tren and Dbol /Anadrol , my strength will go way up . but I'm holding myself back for now. get my joints accustomed to the compound movements again first .
> 
> as mentioned earlier, I still may add in 25mg winny mon- fri , and 50mg Anadrol on the weekends when I carb load , at some point


No Tren???
This seems like an opportunity to give DHB a trial run while you’re not really on anything else

----------


## GearHeaded

> No Tren ???
> This seems like an opportunity to give DHB a trial run while you’re not really on anything else


I've got pre filled slin pins with tren ace in them ready to go just staring at me every day telling me to pin them . but I'm going to hold off until I'm further along into this strength phase

your right. would be a perfect time to run some DHB and see how I respond to it. I would if I had some on hand

----------


## IronLiver

> so the Keto bulk began Monday -
> its starting off moderately and I'll increase the amount of food over time. right now I'm just trying to get 5 protein feedings in per day
> 
> meal 1 - whey shake in 2 cups full fat milk 
> 
> meal 2 - 5 whole eggs with cheese, 5 pieces of turkey bacon, bowl of cottage cheese
> 
> meal 3 - 16 oz of ground sirloin (2 burger patties)
> 
> ...


Looks pretty good. I add raw butter and cheese to all my meals but that all depends on how your body responds to dairy and if you can find a good organic source of dairy in your area. If you want amazing digestion then I would definitely reccomend adding raw beef liver to your diet if you can find a fresh source. I do 50-100 grams of fermented liver with most meals and you feel like a champion.

----------


## GearHeaded

> Looks pretty good. I add raw butter and cheese to all my meals but that all depends on how your body responds to dairy and if you can find a good organic source of dairy in your area. If you want amazing digestion then I would definitely reccomend adding raw beef liver to your diet if you can find a fresh source. I do 50-100 grams of fermented liver with most meals and you feel like a champion.


a close friend of mine is a hunting outfitter . I asked him just the other day what he does with the liver of the deer he kills. he said nothing.. I told him to save me a few. not sure what deer liver taste like or not, but thought I'd give it a try before spending $ on liver

----------


## IronLiver

> a close friend of mine is a hunting outfitter . I asked him just the other day what he does with the liver of the deer he kills. he said nothing.. I told him to save me a few. not sure what deer liver taste like or not, but thought I'd give it a try before spending $ on liver


You don't eat it for the flavor... If you can get it fresh, try not to freeze or cook it as that will kill many of the beneficial bacteria. You can have your friend chop up the liver as soon as they kill the deer and put it into air tight glass jars. After about a month of fermentation this is what they call "high meat" and if you've never had it before you won't believe how much energy it gives you.

----------


## GearHeaded

Update -

been down and out the last week or so. just a lot of negative shit going on right now around me. but time to pull my boots up and kick some ass. ain't nothing going to happen unless I make shit happen.

anyhow . still on keto.

benefits thus far 
- digestion is way better on all aspects. my IBS symptoms are pretty much gone
- energy levels seem to be endless.. yesterday I did a 3 mile hike and did not want to quit, then when I finished the hike I did 3 hours of yard work cutting down branches and over growth on my property. I could of just kept going and going (and I only had one small meal that morning)
- sleep is better. in the past I'd only get like 4-5 hours of sleep.. lately I've had nights where I've gotten 9 hours
- an hour long workout is a breeze. I can hammer the weights hard and still have energy for 30 mins of more cardio afterwards
- my waist is smaller and tighter, probably only 29" right now
- my blood sugars are way lower
- I'm not near as achy in my joints and my back and past surgeries don't seem to hurt as much 

negative
- I can't gain a pound. heck my weight doesn't even fluctuate anymore. usually I could fluctuate 5 pounds or more, but now its the same every time I step on the scale .. I'm the absolute lightest I've been in years. I feel really frickin small
- I've probably lost 1.5" from my arms.. just looking at them they look small and weak. my legs are even worse. I'm flat and non pumped everywhere. my shirts are all loose and baggy
- muscle soreness lasts a really long time. heck I hit my calves a week ago and they are still sore. chest workout soreness lasted for days (I think without carbs and glycogen the muscles are dehydrated)



conclusion thus far-
Keto is NOT ideal for bodybuilding. but for endurance athletes, overall health and well being, daily functions in life and having energy, etc. it is ideal. If I was a contractor again, and working a hard labor job 8 hours per day, then being on Keto would be ideal, I could just have a big breakfast and probably work my 8 hour job without even needing to stop for a meal at all and have endless energy.


I'm not really all that focused on "bodybuilding" at the moment. I've got a lot of shit going on right now I need to deal with.. so I'm going to stick with Keto for now.
BUT . I bet once I get back to it and I up my gear, hit the carbs and insulin hard, etc.. that I will have a pretty good rebound and will 'blow up' .
I've lost 30 pounds of lean tissue. so gaining that back won't be hard. gaining 30 pounds of new weight is hard, gaining back what you have lost is muscle memory and comes back fairly quick

----------


## balance

Glad to hear your getting good rest (sleep is very underrated) and your previous injuries are feeling good. Hope you can get other life things in good line as well. 

Years ago when I was running keto I too found doms to last extremely long. It was quite normal for me to be sore from squats 4-5 days after lifting. Interestingly enough though I also have noticed extended periods of doms when eating in a calorie deficit and not on keto. I genuinely believe that true keto (even modified keto/Atkins) is about as far as you can get from an ideal method to grow. Muscle building (with or without AAS) truly requires carbs. I just smh every time I see a YT pro or semipro bb guy exclaim keto is awesome. To believe the physique they currently have was attained with keto is beyond comical. While they may not straight up say I didnt grow on keto they dont explain the challenges of growing with it. Dont get me wrong though keto can get you diced but actually grow I have reservations. 

I know you are a coffee guy I would be interested to know if your coffee intake has changed much while on keto?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## GearHeaded

yeah I agree . anyone who looks jacked and has lots of size yet claims Keto, built that physique with carbs and is just using keto to stay lean.
I actually think carbs are the most anabolic bang for your buck food. it generates the greatest hormone responses in the body (like Insulin , IGF, and blocking Cortisol) and its capable of directly hypetrophying muscle cells (by volumizing them with glycogen, water, and nutrients).. heck amino acids and proteins have a hard time getting into muscle cells without 'catching a ride' with the glucose/carbs.

I wouldn't doubt that if I switched to a super high carb diet right now, with a little bit of slin , I could probably blow up 20 pounds in a few weeks and change my look. carbs make the muscle fuller, rounder, and harder. this is also why most contest prep clients I have dieting on a fairly high amount of Carbs (never once did keto for a whole contest prep). Carbs definitely have a more cosmetic effect on the body.

for bodybuilding purposes,, I'll definitely be going back to a carb based diet. keto has a lot of benefits outside of bodybuilding though. so I'll take advantage of those for now, but when I got back to putting on size again, its Carbs all the way.

as for coffee.. I drink it for a few hours every morning. no change other then its not as good after eating a meal. because my breakfast is just salty protein and fats, theres no carbs or sugar or anything sweet to finish the meal off with that keeps me craving coffee after

----------


## IronLiver

I would have to say that raw animal organs are probably the the most anabolic . I can't see how white rice could induce a higher hormone response than eating fresh heart or kidneys. 

I've been eating fish and meats uncooked for several years but decided to finally go all out and diet for this cycle on a raw carnivore diet. This means no cooked foods. By far this is the best I've felt in a long time. 

Recently, I moved to a big fishing town and the tuna is incredible. Very inexpensive at about $2.50 / lb. The beef and dairy come from a local farm and is great as well. I usually go early in the morning to the butcher and buy about 5 lbs every few days, along with some milk and cheese. 

Here's a sample meal plan that I'm doing:

Meal 1
1 egg
100g fermented beef liver 

Meal 2
3oz tuna (fresh sashimi) 
3oz steak (chuck or round beef)
2 tbsp raw butter 
1 egg

Meal 3,4,5
6oz tuna or steak
1 cup white rice 
50g cheese (Queso maduro) 
2 tbsp butter 
1 tbsp honey
1 egg

Meal 6 
8oz beef liver 
50g cheese
2 tbsp butter
1 egg

----------


## GearHeaded

> I would have to say that raw animal organs are probably the the most anabolic. I can't see how white rice could induce a higher hormone response than eating fresh heart or kidneys.


just a quick response here.. as much as organ meats are 'micro nutrient' dense and super healthy in the long term . I don't know that they generate much if any hormonal responses in the body.

2 cups of white rice is going to illicit a very strong insulin release (proteins and organ meats will to a much less degree) . insulin is the most anabolic hormone in the body (next to IGF , and carbs also release more IGF).. carbs also , via secondary pathways due to insulin release, also block cortisol (which is a catabolic hormone that promotes gluconeogenisis and the breaking down of muscle tissue for amino acids to convert into energy).
carbs also help load glycogen and drive water and nutrients into muscle cells . pretty much instantly causing a growth in muscle cell size .. which is why bodybuilders 'carb load' before a contest . they don't 'organ meat' load  :Wink:  

over a long period of time, yes I see organ meats as beneficial for muscle building. but they likely don't illicit near the immediate hormonal response that carbs due (and I haven't even touched on leptin and ghrelin and all that stuff) .


gurantee you've probably never seen a 500 pound women that eats only organ meat . she got that big from eating carbs her whole life,
carbs and their strong anabolic hormonal effects create 500 pound fat women, and they create 300 pound bodybuilders. 
eating only organ meats or protein and fat doesn't (though that may create healthy individuals who are lean)

----------


## GearHeaded

if all you ate was organs and meat your whole life . and you were a guy of medium build you'd probably be about 150 pounds max..

anyone who has ever got huge , either hyper muscular or hyper fat or obese .. Carbs were a primary food for that person most their life

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## IronLiver

I'm pretty sure eating a bunch of goat testicles might have the immediate hormonal response of carbs...

My problem with carbohydrates is that most of them are unhealthy and aren't optimal for long term positive health. Like you said, carbs have a more cosmetic effect on the body. Many carbohydates in their raw form are loaded with oxalates, anti nutritents and toxins. The agenda from big government and corporations to push more and more carbs is not because they care about your health. If you go to a big supermarket, how much of the food is healthy in there? While carbs may be good for building muscle, it seems to be the biggest contributor to the ever increasing stupidity and obesity in modern society. 

What do you think the best carbohydrate sources are? 

I've been drinking about 1 liter of raw cow milk per day. That and honey are my two favorites. Fruit comes in third place but it's best to eat it with butter to slow the digestion. Followed by white rice.

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## Livinlean

> I'm pretty sure eating a bunch of goat testicles might have the immediate hormonal response of carbs...
> 
> My problem with carbohydrates is that most of them are unhealthy and aren't optimal for long term positive health. Like you said, carbs have a more cosmetic effect on the body. Many carbohydates in their raw form are loaded with oxalates, anti nutritents and toxins. The agenda from big government and corporations to push more and more carbs is not because they care about your health. If you go to a big supermarket, how much of the food is healthy in there? While carbs may be good for building muscle, it seems to be the biggest contributor to the ever increasing stupidity and obesity in modern society. 
> 
> What do you think the best carbohydrate sources are? 
> 
> I've been drinking about 1 liter of raw cow milk per day. That and honey are my two favorites. Fruit comes in third place but it's best to eat it with butter to slow the digestion. Followed by white rice.



Claiming carbs are unhealthy is just like vegans claiming meat is unhealthy. Sure, there are bad sources but saying carbs are unhealthy is way too much of a stretch. 

Whats wrong with white rice, potatoes, sweet potatoes? I agree with you about super markets having a ton of unhealthy food and if you're talking about boxed carbs then not many can argue with what you're saying in terms of them being unhealthy in the long run but there are plenty of healthy carbs out there.

----------


## Livinlean

My carb sources daily are: sweet potato, potato, basmati rice, cream of rice, honey, blueberries, banana, honey crisp apple, organic cranberry juice and oats. The "unhealthy carbs" I add to my diet would be cereal and candy as well as pasta although I do go with the organic pasta from Costco because of taste.

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## IronLiver

> Claiming carbs are unhealthy is just like vegans claiming meat is unhealthy. Sure, there are bad sources but saying carbs are unhealthy is way too much of a stretch. 
> 
> Whats wrong with white rice, potatoes, sweet potatoes? I agree with you about super markets having a ton of unhealthy food and if you're talking about boxed carbs then not many can argue with what you're saying in terms of them being unhealthy in the long run but there are plenty of healthy carbs out there.


Humans have a carnviore digestive tract and are unable to fully digest the majority of plant foods. Most vegitables have digestive enzyme inhibitors. Wheat protease inhibitors, and of course plant lectins that act as a defense for the plant becuase the plant does not want to be eaten in nature by other animals. Potato, cranberry, cherries, etc. all have a protective layer of cyanogenic glycosides, which are compounds that release cyanide and block cellular respiration.

Vegans are morons becuase they lack the essential animal fats for there brains to function, so most of them are complete idiots. There are many tribes that have lived off of raw meat, fish and dairy and live very healthy lives well into 100 years old. Point me to a vegan tribe? 

I highly reccommend watching this to learn more.

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## Gallowmere

> Humans have a carnviore digestive tract and are unable to fully digest the majority of plant foods. Most vegitables have digestive enzyme inhibitors. Wheat protease inhibitors, and of course plant lectins that act as a defense for the plant becuase the plant does not want to be eaten in nature by other animals. Potato, cranberry, cherries, etc. all have a protective layer of cyanogenic glycosides, which are compounds that release cyanide and block cellular respiration.
> 
> Vegans are morons becuase they lack the essential animal fats for there brains to function, so most of them are complete idiots. There are many tribes that have lived off of raw meat, fish and dairy and live very healthy lives well into 100 years old. Point me to a vegan tribe? 
> 
> I highly reccommend watching this to learn more.


You do realize that youre falling victim to the same kind of agitprop garbage as vegans do, right?

Just because youre left of center and theyre right of center, doesnt mean that the truth isnt still somewhere between the two.

----------


## GearHeaded

just to clarify . I did Keto about 7 years ago and I did it for a full year. I was a bit of a Keto "zealot" and anti carb. I've been in that camp way before it was mainstream. I followed all the Keto Phd guys, had books like "the fat of the land", followed you tubers like 'primal edge health' etc..

however. when I got back into bodybuilding and off that little 'health kick phase' I was in, I knew for a FACT that carbs were essential for putting on size and muscle.

so in bodybuilding the whole Carniovore vs Keto vs Vegan , debate is pointless . we are NOT trying to get jacked and huge and strong as F-k for our health . I don't inject 3 grams of gear and swallow Dbols like candy for my health.
Same with CARBS . do some carbs have some possible unhealthy attributes and perhaps cause inflammation.. sure. but if I'm bodybuilding and want to be as jacked as possible, I don't care. I'm eating as many carbs as I can and shooting 40iu of insulin per day.

in bodybuilding its simply about what works the best. and a high carb diet no doubt works the best for getting huge.

the mainstream 'fad diets' like vegan and carnivore etc.. are just that. fad diets for mainstream people. bodybuilding diet is tried and true and been around and working for decades.


now sure a bodybuilder can utilize some of these fad diets for certain purposes. just like me doing keto right now for a bit for some digestive and inflammation issues. but they are just a tool , imo , and NOT a lifestyle choice. heck go vegan for a couple months as a tool. go carnivore for a couple months as a tool . but don't commit your life to some silly fad.

for me my "lifestyle diet" is Omnivore .. a wide range of all natural foods. steak, chicken, pork ,, rice, oats, grains, potato,, veggies and fruits. all in as natural a state as I can get them.
well balanced and simple . if I choose to go Carnivore and eat only steak and organ meat for a month, thats just a tool for a time, not a lifestyle diet

----------


## GearHeaded

just to put it in perspective from my last point ..

right now I'm focusing on my health a bit. I'm eating mainly all natural organic meats and a few veggies and thats about it.

BUT
when I get back to wanting to put on size . post workout I will be injecting 20iu of Slin and slamming a whey shake and 2 pop tarts and a whole bagel . then an hour later I'm going to eat an entire box of Mac and Cheese with a burger patty


the diet difference is based on goals at the time

----------


## GearHeaded

> Humans have a carnviore digestive tract and are unable to fully digest the majority of plant foods.


agree with this to a point . humans digestive tract is the most similar in the mammal world to that of a dog. people think we are most similar to chimps or gorillas, but not even close. a dog and human digestive systems are very similar. which is interesting because thats one animal we can co habitat with (mans best friend) and eat the same exact food.
but , keep in mind a dog as a carnivore can still eat some grains and veggies and assimilate them just fine. you can cut up some steak and mix it in a bowl with some rice and some cooked carrots and your dog will eat that no problem and have good nutrition from it.
same with us.
so as a carnivore, we are still able to assimilate some select grains and veggies.


the actual biggest difference between humans and mammals that are herbivore, is that we don't have a 4 chamber stomach like an herbivore. we can't eat grass and veggies and get essential fats from them like a cow, deer, or lamb can do. we would die of malabsorption if we tried to go only vegan like an herbivore.
so we let the cows eat the grass, get all the essential nutrients and fats out of the plants, and then we simply eat the cow and take on all those good nutrients and fats for ourselves .
Geeesh , what a genius idea. no wonder humans starting raising animals and fencing them in. no refrigeration required

----------


## kelkel

Personally I miss Pop Tarts.

----------


## GearHeaded

> Personally I miss Pop Tarts.


pop tarts and insulin . the 'secret' to getting huge  :Wink:

----------


## kelkel

> pop tarts and insulin . the 'secret' to getting huge



Duly noted.

----------


## GearHeaded

> Duly noted.


I should do an experiment . break this keto for a week , then do 2 pop tarts with 15iu of slin, twice per day. see how much weight I put on without changing anything else

----------


## kelkel

Now that would be interesting! Like Star Trek, going places where no man has gone before.....

----------


## GearHeaded

> Now that would be interesting! Like Star Trek, going places where no man has gone before.....


slin, pop tarts and BEYOND ! would be the most extreme experiment I ever did lol

----------


## GearHeaded

absolutely zero pump in the gym today.. did a pull day with biceps at the end. how frustrating it is to do curl after curl waiting for a bicep pump that never comes. and that was with taking a pump product, salt, and creatine drink.
now sure, I never really got winded or tired during the workout and I felt it was a decent workout, but no pump what so ever is really lack luster.

I'm going to take this Thanksgiving week holiday and Carb load the F_k up, put on like 12 or so pounds. get my pump back , then go back to a modified Keto . I think with all the fasting I did going into Keto I just depleted myself way too much (add on top of the fasting two a day cardio sessions).
I think I'm going to need a whole week at least to fill back up and load glycogen stores . will use a little bit of insulin and some Dbol to help out

----------


## kelkel

> absolutely zero pump in the gym today.. did a pull day with biceps at the end. how frustrating it is to do curl after curl waiting for a bicep pump that never comes. and that was with taking a pump product, salt, and creatine drink.
> now sure, I never really got winded or tired during the workout and I felt it was a decent workout, but no pump what so ever is really lack luster.
> 
> I'm going to take this Thanksgiving week holiday and Carb load the F_k up, put on like 12 or so pounds. get my pump back , then go back to a modified Keto . I think with all the fasting I did going into Keto I just depleted myself way too much (add on top of the fasting two a day cardio sessions).
> I think I'm going to need a whole week at least to fill back up and load glycogen stores . will use a little bit of insulin and some Dbol to help out



Pop Tarts are calling your name....

----------


## GearHeaded

> Pop Tarts are calling your name....


heck yeah , I'm ready to rock and roll

----------


## Gallowmere

> heck yeah , I'm ready to rock and roll


The amusing part is that Im pretty sure Ive seen an identical picture on T2D social media.

----------


## kelkel

> heck yeah , I'm ready to rock and roll



Breakfast of champions!

----------


## GearHeaded

Ugh , looks like I'm going to be shoveling snow all damn day again. this is like the 5th blizzard we've had and its only November



its hard to see but thats a bicycle wheel barely sticking out of the snow. its sticking straight up.. a bicycle wheel is 26" btw

----------


## GearHeaded

no gym today.. got about 4 feet of snow in the driveway. can't even find my car. no shoveling either cause it was so damn windy and snowing all day no damn point. 
not a good start to this Thanksgiving week mini bulk (um yeah the bicycle wheel and the chair have disappeared as well)

oh well I'm used to this shit.. the worst snow storm I remember some years back, when I lived on the continental divide at the top of the rocky mountains, was 9 feet of snow dumped in 48 hours. we were absolutely buried in our house. the snow was higher then the front door . you literally could not open the front door (whats a door jam at , like 7 feet). only from the upper level could we look out the windows . my dodge 2500 sitting outside was no where to be found. on the edge of one side of my property I had put up an elevated/raised 8 foot cedar fence. that disappeared too . I think we were stuck in the house about 2 weeks before a front loader got to us to dig us out. and even then it was like driving through a narrow tunnel to get to a paved road

----------


## Obs

> no gym today.. got about 4 feet of snow in the driveway. can't even find my car. no shoveling either cause it was so damn windy and snowing all day no damn point. 
> not a good start to this Thanksgiving week mini bulk (um yeah the bicycle wheel and the chair have disappeared as well)
> 
> oh well I'm used to this shit.. the worst snow storm I remember some years back, when I lived on the continental divide at the top of the rocky mountains, was 9 feet of snow dumped in 48 hours. we were absolutely buried in our house. the snow was higher then the front door . you literally could not open the front door (whats a door jam at , like 7 feet). only from the upper level could we look out the windows . my dodge 2500 sitting outside was no where to be found. on the edge of one side of my property I had put up an elevated/raised 8 foot cedar fence. that disappeared too . I think we were stuck in the house about 2 weeks before a front loader got to us to dig us out. and even then it was like driving through a narrow tunnel to get to a paved road


Damn two weeks locked with the loud assholes in my house and it would be a scene from the shining.

----------


## GearHeaded

so heres my last house, just down the road from where I live now..
heres what 6 feet of snow accumulation looks like. I open the garage door.. my vette here is maybe 5" tall , but its way closer to the camera and totally out angling the snow. umm yeah this car is not getting out for months.


hard to tell here, but I'm looking at my center island of my driveway ( a big circle drive with a center island), in the middle of the driveway was a 6 foot tall water fountain and park benches . totally gone


heres my back up truck.. even that won't do shit half the time


oh and one more interesting tie bit where I live .. this is NOT snow. this is the middle of summer and this is a rain and hail storm. the city keeps plow drivers on full time cause our hail gets so bad it fills the streets

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## GearHeaded

> Damn two weeks locked with the loud assholes in my house and it would be a scene from the shining.


lol . funny as shit , I actually keep an ax as my go to melee weapon (its right next to where I normally sit) . my kids have seen the shining and they are terrified .
well the good things about storms like this though, you never have to worry about intruders . ain't no one getting to your house period unless it was by helicopter

----------


## Obs

> so heres my last house, just down the road from where I live now..
> heres what 6 feet of snow accumulation looks like. I open the garage door.. my vette here is maybe 5" tall , but its way closer to the camera and totally out angling the snow. umm yeah this car is not getting out for months.
> 
> 
> hard to tell here, but I'm looking at my center island of my driveway ( a big circle drive with a center island), in the middle of the driveway was a 6 foot tall water fountain and park benches . totally gone
> 
> 
> heres my back up truck.. even that won't do shit half the time
> 
> ...


Lmao on the hail damn

----------


## Obs

> lol . funny as shit , I actually keep an ax as my go to melee weapon (its right next to where I normally sit) . my kids have seen the shining and they are terrified .
> well the good things about storms like this though, you never have to worry about intruders . ain't no one getting to your house period unless it was by helicopter


You need a d12 with a v-blade

----------


## GearHeaded

> Lmao on the hail damn


when I was in commercial HVAC , I loved the mega hail storms we got here .. one year I had a 250,000 sq foot mega church get nailed with hail damage and it destroyed a ton of AC condensers (we are talking 150 ton AC units). of course insurance covered their loss and I sold a 300,000$ job with 60% profit margins .. not a bad pay day for a months worth of work

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## GearHeaded

> You need a d12 with a v-blade


I'll ax my arm off and go from like evil dead to army of darkness and have that d12 permanently attached .. of course the wife will want me to make it functional so I can also swap it out for some sort of super vibrator on the end as well

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## i_SLAM_cougars

> I'll ax my arm off and go from like evil dead to army of darkness and have that d12 permanently attached .. of course the wife will want me to make it functional so I can also swap it out for some sort of super vibrator on the end as well

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## charger69

Damn you GH! Since you started posting pics, sunny SoCal has turned into dreary wet and cold SoCal


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## GearHeaded

> Damn you GH! Since you started posting pics, sunny SoCal has turned into dreary wet and cold SoCal


the world is getting colder and colder . we are entering into an ice age (mainly to purge the world of Veganism.. but thats a whole other topic)

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## HoldMyBeer

Happy turkey day gh

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## GearHeaded

well shit , I think I'm regressing and going downhill and not getting better at all . just for the F of it I looked at my phone see if I had any progress pics from last year thanksgiving. 
not happy with my back thickness last year and this year its probably even worse. wtf

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## GearHeaded

holy shit , I found a really old pic of me. I think this was after my 2nd or 3rd back surgery about 7 or more years ago . damn I was small as shit

before

after

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## Obs

> well shit , I think I'm regressing and going downhill and not getting better at all . just for the F of it I looked at my phone see if I had any progress pics from last year thanksgiving. 
> not happy with my back thickness last year and this year its probably even worse. wtf


Been to hectic this year to do much.

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## kelkel

> well shit , I think I'm regressing and going downhill and not getting better at all . just for the F of it I looked at my phone see if I had any progress pics from last year thanksgiving. 
> not happy with my back thickness last year and this year its probably even worse. wtf 
> Attachment 177560



You will bounce back because you're disciplined and don't know any other way.

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## GearHeaded

> You will bounce back because you're disciplined and don't know any other way.


your right. it just sucks to look back on an entire year and see you've made no progress and if anything you've actually regressed, and its your own damn fault and not because of major injuries or surgeries setting you back (like times past for me).
I need to get refocused and re disciplined and make this next year the year of gains.. thats the thing about the iron game, no matter how many times you fuck up and slack off , the iron is still sitting there waiting for you to get back at it

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## kelkel

> thats the thing about the iron game, no matter how many times you fuck up and slack off , the iron is still sitting there waiting for you to get back at it



Because the iron is the real drug.

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## GearHeaded

ok so Fk the Keto diet !! well at least for bodybuilding/gains purposes. I actually really like the keto diet as a tool for a lot of reasons and think it super beneficial in a lot of situations.. however, this 3 or so week little experiment (again I've done keto straight for nearly a year in the past) is all I needed to remember that CARBS build muscle. period. my physique has gone to shit (despite all the benefits to keto).

there is not a pro bodybuilder likely in history that ever stepped on a stage without carbs. if they did, we never heard of them cause they got last place . I'm sure they felt great but they sucked at everything else.

I'd really of like to of given this a much longer run, but I see no point. especially considering my goals right now is I need to gain some size back. 
new game plan coming soon

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## GearHeaded

so modified game plan here. not going to be able to put on any size with Keto, so I'm structuring a diet for growth purposes but also to help with lowering inflammation and help my digestive and stomach problems.

most diets are usually something like high protein low fat moderate carb. or super low carb with high fat. well I'm going to do moderate protein, high fat, moderate carb.
now I don't generally suggest a diet with macros set up that way. most people will end up putting on too much body fat with that. but i have different goals and purposes here then merely body composition (I want to gain some size back, I won't to get way stronger, and I want to heal my gut and inflammation issues).

so whats it look like in numbers
200g Protein , 150g fat, 250g carbs = 3150 cals
protein 26%, fat 43%, carbs 31%

these numbers are easy to put down on paper , but how they actually pan out in reality meal per meal may be more difficult. because a lot of the fats I may eat may contain lots of protein , like dairy. if I'm eating 50g of protein with each meal from meat , then I add in dairy at various times for a fat source, theres plenty of protein in dairy as well.. but i'm not going to be that OTC, I'm bulking, if I over shoot protein or carbs a bit here and there thats totally fine.

now why the high fat? a lot of fatty foods happen to be very nutrient dense foods, plus fats contain over twice the amount of calories as carbs or protein so its easy to drive calories up. plus a lot of them are low inflammation foods.
things like Avocado, Olives, Red meat, Salmon, Cottage cheese , are all very fatty but also very nutrient and micro nutrient dense. your getting lots of nutrition and vitamins and minerals with fatty foods.

I've stated this elsewhere, but calories are just a measurement of energy/heat. thats it. calories don't build muscle.. the nutrition itself does, and the micro nutrition (vitamins minerals) are 'co factors' for all the anabolic processes in the body.
if your in a calorie surplus , but you don't have sufficient micro nutrients coming in, then your not going to grow.

so I'm focusing a lot on micro nutrition here.


so here are the main foods I will eat

direct protein 
- Red meat, dark meat chicken (ie, mainly whole chickens with skin on), pork (salmon when I can afford it)
indirect protein
- black beans, dairy

Fats
- Avacodo, Olives, Butter, Dairy, Bacon, fatty ground beef, olive oil, eggs, nuts

Carbs
- white rice, potatoes, beans, fruit, fruit juices (select veggies)


foods I'm going to limit 
Pasta, grains, bread, flour, wheat, sugar and sweets ... by limit I mean I'm not building the base of my diet around any of these. but they may end up in a meal on an occasion 


example meals
meal 1 - whey protein shake in whole milk with some creamer and a spoonful of peanut butter (thrown that in for charger)

meal 2 - 5 whole eggs, 5oz ground beef or bacon or sausage, bowl of cream of rice cooked in whole milk

meal 3 - two 8oz hamburger patties, with cheese, 1 cup white rice

meal 4 - 10oz chicken thighs, mash potatoes with gravy, green beans in butter

meal 5 - 8oz ground beef, 1 cup of black beans, 1 cup of rice , all covered with cheese. tomatoes and spinach. sour cream

thats off the top of my head.. I have not crunched the actual numbers yet on each of these meals

to add in some more carbs and nutrients , after some of these meals I may add in a snack like some fruit, fruit juice, and nuts ..


will see if I can start putting some weight and strength back on with this while limiting some inflammation and digestion issues, idk , like I say I generally do not set up diets this way for clients. but hey I'm all for experimenting on myself

----------


## IronLiver

Maybe try throwing in some of that deer liver in for the micro nutrition. I wish I could get deer liver around here... I've been adding fresh beef bone marrow to my meals which is another great source of fat and micronutrients that I would definitely recommend. If you get fattier cuts of steaks you can avoid adding in too much extra fats. Black beans will probably not be a good idea for good digestion. Most of the protein is bound by fiber and antinutirents, so it's not very bioavailable. Also, spinach is very high in oxalates and will contribute to inflammation and acne.

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## JaneDoe

GearHeaded, I liked this topic, but one question, how many calories a day are you consuming in your diet?

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## GearHeaded

> GearHeaded, I liked this topic, but one question, how many calories a day are you consuming in your diet?


on the new diet it will be around 3100 . the last month on Keto , I don't know what calories were at. I didn't track at all. I wasn't eating planned meals either I was just eating instinctively and when I ate I ate keto meals.
thats what I found to be one of the benefits, mainly for people with busy lives (not bodybuilders) is that you can easily go 6-8 hours without a meal and it doesn't even phase you

----------


## GearHeaded

> Maybe try throwing in some of that deer liver in for the micro nutrition. I wish I could get deer liver around here... I've been adding fresh beef bone marrow to my meals which is another great source of fat and micronutrients that I would definitely recommend. If you get fattier cuts of steaks you can avoid adding in too much extra fats. Black beans will probably not be a good idea for good digestion. Most of the protein is bound by fiber and antinutirents, so it's not very bioavailable. Also, spinach is very high in oxalates and will contribute to inflammation and acne.


I occasionally make my own bone broth , and when in a rush I just use chicken stock. I will cook my rice in it with butter. adds a lot more nutrients to rice being rice is not very nutrient dense to begin with (its mainly just a carb source). 

yes I was titter tottering on wither to include black beans or not .. I decided to include them for now and can always pull them out later.
the reason I like black beans for a bulking phase is that its super easy to get a lot of carbs down . much easier to add a bunch of black beans to a cup of plain white rice and triple the carb amount, then it is to eat 3 cups of rice.

plus they do have a decent amount of micro nutrients, like fiber, potassium, folate, vitamin B6, magnesium, potassium, phosphorus, vitamin k . and phytonutrients, as well as an important mineral knows as Molybdenum .
thats a lot of bang for your buck in micro nutrients . rice has virtually none of this 

as for Spinach . I've heard a lot of Carnivore folks talking bad about spinach as of late. I'm not going to just take their word. I need to do my own research. as of now I've done none at all

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## IronLiver

All of the nutrients your body needs can be obtained in meats and organs. 

I used to eat black beans, lentils, pinto beans all the time back in the day. Eventually had to stop becuause I was sick of getting bloated and smelling up my house with farts all the time. Oats might be a better alternative but both legumes and oats are pretty much indigestible by humans and therefore all those micronutrients that you listed, including the Molybdenum, will be going into the toilet. 

White rice has no micro nutrients but it's one of the most easily digestable carbs, since the shell has been removed it's far easier for your body to assimilate it more rapidly. Butter will slow the digestion of the rice as well and make you fuller for longer. 

Spinach, kale and all the other shitty tasting green leaves all seem have high amounts of oxolates which crystalize in the thyroid gland. This has been known for a long time and there was a study published over 100 years ago _An Experimental Inquiry on Poisoning by Oxalic Acid_ regarding how dangerous oxolate toxicity is. Also seems to be the leading cause of kidney stones. Here's some good information on the topic of you would like to learn more. Risking Oxalate Toxicity - Sally Norton

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## Livinlean

> Spinach, kale and all the other shitty tasting green leaves all seem have high amounts of oxolates which crystalize in the thyroid gland. This has been known for a long time and there was a study published over 100 years ago _An Experimental Inquiry on Poisoning by Oxalic Acid_ regarding how dangerous oxolate toxicity is. Also seems to be the leading cause of kidney stones. Here's some good information on the topic of you would like to learn more. Risking Oxalate Toxicity - Sally Norton


I have heard of the kidney stone issue with spinach but correct me if i'm wrong but I thought I remembered reading that if the spinach is cooked then that is not an issue and that it's only an issue with raw spinach.

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## IronLiver

> I have heard of the kidney stone issue with spinach but correct me if i'm wrong but I thought I remembered reading that if the spinach is cooked then that is not an issue and that it's only an issue with raw spinach.


Cooking or not cooking wouldn't reduce the oxolate count, since they are in a micro crystalline form. 

Here's another great website to check out for more info on the topic - oxalates

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## GearHeaded

> I have heard of the kidney stone issue with spinach but correct me if i'm wrong but I thought I remembered reading that if the spinach is cooked then that is not an issue and that it's only an issue with raw spinach.


in a post earlier in this thread, I recommended lightly cooking all your vegetables for better digestion and assimilation.

in regards to Oxalics . I'm uneducated on this topic. but know its risen in popularity along with the 'toxicity' of veggies recently in regards to the whole vegan vs carnivore debate thats a current trend right now . 

these are good debates and discussions to have and hopefully drive us all to further learning and information so we can make better informed decisions for ourselves in regards to our nutrition.

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## Gallowmere

Try reading some actual texts on the matter instead of watching wanky YouTube videos and websites that skip inconvenient details. Namely, much like the protein kidney bullshit, this isnt an issue without pre-existing conditions, unless youre consuming quantities that arent realistically feasible, even for a nutty raw foods vegan.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3710657/

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## balance

While Im all for learning and that often comes from discussion and debate things can get a bit silly. I can understand wanting to optimize every aspect (training, diet, aas) for best results but stressing over a couple of servings of spinach or kale is seriously getting wrapped around the axle. Things dont have to be so black or white (like carnivore vs herbivore) its like the whole political bs going on currently. Just be reasonable, if you can catch, kill, or grow it its extremely likely that eating it in moderation will put you closer to your goals. 

Besides there is no way Popeye could have been wrong. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## GearHeaded

I'm an all or nothing type of guy . I've been trying to live more balanced and focus on various other aspects of my life and my health the last 6 months or so. AND guess what, ain't got shit for gains and I look like shit in the mirror (not that that even matters).

this isn't working. not happy at all 

I'm going to either chose to 'flip the switch' and go all in and get as big and strong as I possibly can at my age, or I'm going to keep sitting here spinning my wheels doing nothing 

2 grams of test
1 gram of tren 
100mg Dbol 
40iu slin
and 5,500 calories .. training twice a day. or nothing. I suck at trying to be balanced and conservative and get no results!

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## Obs

> I'm an all or nothing type of guy . I've been trying to live more balanced and focus on various other aspects of my life and my health the last 6 months or so. AND guess what, ain't got shit for gains and I look like shit in the mirror (not that that even matters).
> 
> this isn't working. not happy at all 
> 
> I'm going to either chose to 'flip the switch' and go all in and get as big and strong as I possibly can at my age, or I'm going to keep sitting here spinning my wheels doing nothing 
> 
> 2 grams of test
> 1 gram of tren 
> 100mg Dbol 
> ...


I tried balancing my life. 
I adjusted my inversion table to 6'2 and was still top heavy.

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## GearHeaded

adding 35 pounds . period 

this shit is gonna get huge

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## GearHeaded

been sick as shit the last few days. both with a crapy cold and some sort of stomach bug. but at some point here soon a major bulking phase is going to be under way once I can get some food down again and train hard

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## IronLiver

Just wanted to say thanks for all the good info you've shared. I'm on the final week of my first cycle and put on about 35 lbs. Had to buy a bunch of new clothes... Probably wouldn't have had as good as results if I had gone with what most youtubers recommend doing for a first cycle. 

This is my first time eating raw meats for 14 weeks straight and I have to say that my digestion, memory, strength, stamina, energy have never been better. My carb sources where white rice, milk and honey, and a papaya pre workout. Also, I began incorporating 1 month old fermented liver, eyes, brains and kidneys, which give you more energy than any pre-workout I've ever taken. If you are getting colds and stomach issues I would highly recommend giving it a try. There aren't many people out there that eat uncooked meats, which I find to be very strange.

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## GearHeaded

Update regarding diet and digestion issues 

well my appetite is through the roof. I'm eating every couple hours and eating a lot.. my digestion seems to be on point as well.

I'm an idiot . I was missing the most obvious simplest thing to try and address but never did. I wasted time with different food changes and all that shit. did keto for 3 weeks, etc..
but the problem was staring me right in the face.

heres what I changed a few days ago.

so for years I've had problems with sleep. mainly falling asleep. I can't turn my brain off and so will be in bed for hours trying to fall asleep. BUT if at night before bed I take in 3-4 shots of whisky it shuts by brain off enough that I can lay down and fall asleep in 20 mins.

well I was sick of depending on that to go to sleep so I quit a few days back. now I can't sleep of course , but damn my stomach feels great and my appetite is through the roof.

I wake up first thing in the morning hungry so I get a meal in right when I get up (that never usually happens).. I eat a meal and an hour later I'm hungry again. my digestion isn't seemingly bothering me.

heck I finished meal 4 just now.
- protein shake in milk
- sweet and sour chicken and rice meal with veggies , 37g protein and 96g carbs.
after that I was still hungry and ate a piece of left over BBQ chicken.
heck, I'm still hungry and looking for desert now.


must of been the damn Whisky . besides the alcohol itself who knows what grains and stuff are in there that may of been totally jacking up my digestion and appetite .
what a stupid simple fix.

now I just need to figure out how to fall asleep

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## GearHeaded

ok desert done , I found a pice of cake . yeah this isn't on my diet but shit I'm taking advantage of this appetite. 

you know your bulking when you just got done stuffing 1000 cals and as your eating it your already thinking about and planning your next meal .
going to be a Tuna sandwich and some sort of side. I'll hit that in about an hour or so.. later meal 6 will be italian ground sausage and pasta .
then maybe slam a shake before bed.

hell yeah its on like donkey kong mother Fers !!  :Smilie:

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## IronLiver

I haven't been sleeping better than with the diet I'm on now. Usually getting about 8 hours of sleep and then one or two 2 hour naps throughout the day. If I wake up in the middle of the night, I drink 3 or 4 eggs with some valarian root extract and it puts me right back to sleep.

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## GearHeaded

> If I wake up in the middle of the night, I drink 3 or 4 eggs with some valarian root extract and it puts me right back to sleep.


wake up in the middle of the night and drink eggs and herbs . lol well shit if I woke up in the middle of the night I'd just take a shot of whisky .
maybe I should give the eggs a try instead !

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## Proximal

Saw Cutler do the egg thing, mixed with protein powder. 

Thought raw eggs were potentially dangerous?

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## Charlie67

As long as they're pasteurized eggs, as most liquid egg whites are, they're normally safe raw. I've been drinking we whites for years, most every morning in my protein shake. They're not always tasty, but I've chugged them raw as a quick protein meal.

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## GearHeaded

My blood pressure is so whacky (now that I'm off keto its back to being a bit elevated)

so I'm one of the rare people that experience Post Exercise Hypotension

yesterday morning my BP was 150/90 .. yesterday afternoon I did a pull day with Tbar rows, rack pulls, heavy shrugs etc. for over an hour . now any normal person, 10 mins after a workout like that their BP and heart rate would be very elevated.
what was mine right after the workout. 
110/65 

and it stayed low for hours after the workout.

shit I guess I'm going to have to do 2 a days to keep my BP on the low end

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## 99JT

> lol well shit if I woke up in the middle of the night I'd just take a shot of whisky .


was about to do this the other day. haven realy drank since i started using gear how bad actually is it for gains, and health wise?

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## i_SLAM_cougars

> was about to do this the other day. haven realy drank since i started using gear how bad actually is it for gains, and health wise?


Can’t lower your testosterone production anymore because you’re controlling it yourself

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## GearHeaded

digestion and stomach issues are way better . I'm consistently nailing 5-6 meals per day and appetite is still rolling (and thats without MK).. I'm mainly eating lots of meat with every meal and then potato and rice as my carbs. some pasta here and there just to see how it effects me. the other day I had ground beef and an entire box of Mac and cheese . didn't have any issues at all from the Mac.

right before bed I've been taking a scoop of Species Nutrition Fiberlyze and a Sena tab. that seems to be helping quite a bit.

I'm up about 8 pounds now that I'm finally able to eat consistently.

just started Pinning some NPP, Mast, and Test at low dosage

----------


## GearHeaded

> was about to do this the other day. haven realy drank since i started using gear how bad actually is it for gains, and health wise?


well from my little experiment ,, just dropping taking shots of whisky before bed to help me sleep has made drastic improvements.
I really thought nothing of it and didn't think it would effect 'gains' much . but it was destroying my appetite and digestion.

so I would not recommend it . maybe once in awhile in limited capacity. but definitely not every night or multiple times per week

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## IronLiver

> well from my little experiment ,, just dropping taking shots of whisky before bed to help me sleep has made drastic improvements.
> I really thought nothing of it and didn't think it would effect 'gains' much . but it was destroying my appetite and digestion.
> 
> so I would not recommend it . maybe once in awhile in limited capacity. but definitely not every night or multiple times per week


I have a friend that used to do the same thing before bed but with Vodka. Then he increased it to several shots. Then it was a half of bottle before bed. One day I went to his house and in his garage he had hundreds of empty vodka bottles. It can be difficult for many people to consume alcohol in a limited capacity...

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## GearHeaded

> I have a friend that used to do the same thing before bed but with Vodka. Then he increased it to several shots. Then it was a half of bottle before bed. One day I went to his house and in his garage he had hundreds of empty vodka bottles. It can be difficult for many people to consume alcohol in a limited capacity...


I won first place and $2500 in a body transformation contest that was sponsored by a popular supplement company. I drank whisky every night the whole time. I still got all my meals in though.. I figured getting more sleep was more important then the negative effects alcohol would have on the gains. obviously it did not set me back that much being I won. but looking back, I could of probably been way better.

but now, gettin older I guess. my body and digestion is just way more sensitive and not tolerating that shit anymore. the body changes over time. i'ver heard that basically every 7 years your body is kinda a 'new body'.
7 years ago I could drink and make gains no problem . no longer though

----------


## charger69

> I won first place and $2500 in a body transformation contest that was sponsored by a popular supplement company. I drank whisky every night the whole time. I still got all my meals in though.. I figured getting more sleep was more important then the negative effects alcohol would have on the gains. obviously it did not set me back that much being I won. but looking back, I could of probably been way better.
> 
> but now, gettin older I guess. my body and digestion is just way more sensitive and not tolerating that shit anymore. the body changes over time. i'ver heard that basically every 7 years your body is kinda a 'new body'.
> 7 years ago I could drink and make gains no problem . no longer though


When I started reading this, I thought that my next diet would include alcoholic beverages. 


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## i_SLAM_cougars

> I won first place and $2500 in a body transformation contest that was sponsored by a popular supplement company. I drank whisky every night the whole time. I still got all my meals in though.. I figured getting more sleep was more important then the negative effects alcohol would have on the gains. obviously it did not set me back that much being I won. but looking back, I could of probably been way better.
> 
> but now, gettin older I guess. my body and digestion is just way more sensitive and not tolerating that shit anymore. the body changes over time. i'ver heard that basically every 7 years your body is kinda a 'new body'.
> 7 years ago I could drink and make gains no problem . no longer though


So did we just determine that all your digestive issues were cause by the mass consumption of raw alcohol?

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## IronLiver

> So did we just determine that all your digestive issues were cause by the mass consumption of raw alcohol?


Alcohol has certain enzymes that help digest fat properly. Normally it's created in small amounts in our body if you're healthy but most people today are not healthy and have trouble doing this. Most people eat only cooked fats and there body can't breakdown the cooked fats properly, so they crave alcohol to help breakdown the fat. 

Raw saturated fats (eggs, cheese, butter, bone marrow, etc.) in the mornings helps to restore the thyroid and balance sugar levels. Pineapple and honey with raw fat can supply the enzymes for fat digestion. Eating raw cheese before drinking seems to prevent a lot of damage as well.

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## GearHeaded

> So did we just determine that all your digestive issues were cause by the mass consumption of raw alcohol?


too short of time to know for sure. only 9 or so days of not taking a few shots of whisky before bed and my digestion is way way better.
however I still think there is a combination of things going on, and the whisky at night (and then falling right to sleep) was exaggerating the problem big time.
still need to try out more foods and see. been sticking to mainly meat and rice and potato and some veggies as the bulk of my calories.
will see how eating more bread or pastas and grains effects me next

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## GearHeaded

like my post 993 stated ... I won a transformation contest drinking every night and didn't have any issues back then. but now I do have issues. so something else has changed

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## HoldMyBeer

> like my post 993 stated ... I won a transformation contest drinking every night and didn't have any issues back then. but now I do have issues. so something else has changed


I still wouldn't write it off. Your body has changed as well. You can't just say because something did/didn't work for you in the past the same thing will happen again (not that it isn't an indicator of what to expect, I'm just saying it's not definitive)

----------


## GearHeaded

> I still wouldn't write it off. Your body has changed as well. You can't just say because something did/didn't work for you in the past the same thing will happen again (not that it isn't an indicator of what to expect, I'm just saying it's not definitive)


yeah definitely, I agree. thats my point actually.. that my body has changed and what I did in the past is no longer going to work for me today.
I used to drink a few shots before bed to help me fall asleep, , then sleep soundly for 8 hours, then wake up and get all my meals in and train just fine and get results.
but now doing that same thing does not work and F's my digestion and my stomach up big time and anything I eat ends up bothering me.

so I simply gotta except whatever has changed, and find another way to help me fall asleep and not rely on a couple shots

----------


## GearHeaded

side note here -

domestic UGL vs Above ground international labs 

over the years I've mainly used international sources and more 'pharma grade' gear. I have gave some UGLs a try here and there.

I've got pharma grade test sitting here and thats what I'd been using for awhile.. but I got these couple bottles of UGL brand Test e so I decided what the heck I'll give them a try. 
bad move . I'm 6 injections into their test E and I have severe PIP and terrible knotting up . I never never get pip or anything with fricking test e . wtf.. my right glute swelled up alll the way to my lower back. my upper right pec I injected swelled up twice the size of my left pec . my front left delt I injected kept me from doing shoulders for nearly a week.

at first I thought it may of just been a fluke. but I pre loaded some of this test e into slin pins. and then only injected the slin pin amount of gear into my pec and front delt (rather then taking a large 3cc dosage with other compounds mixed in) . and sure enough I got bad pip and knotting up.
who the heck gets this type of knotting up and swelling from test E . test e is the smoothest of all compounds and doesn't even require much BA . so I'm not sure what the heck is wrong with this stuff. sucks I'm going to have to ditch two bottles of test.
I expect some PIP from injectible anadrol and tren base , but not test e.

interesting thing is the same labs Deca and Masteron are perfectly smooth. even the test P I tried out was smooth .. so how the hell did the test e end up so fucked up. idk. I don't know shit about brewing, but something isn't right with this stuff

guess things are just hit or miss with some domestic UGLs .. In 8 years straight of injecting test e several times per week every week, 100s of injections, I never once had PIP or swelling like this.
but then again I never really bothered using UGLs for stuff like test 

maybe a lot of you guys that use primarily UGLs are used to this PIP and knotting up after an injection , so you think its a common thing ?

----------


## GearHeaded

and before someone jumps on here and accuses me of bashing domestic UGLs , I'm not. I'm just stating my current experience right now.
I'm all knotted up and swollen from some gear. just stating thats never happened with international sources.
I'm not naming the lab either. it doesn't matter. every UGL is going to likely have some hit or misses. just like some International sources have their problems as well and your gear gets stuck in customs for months.

----------


## Gallowmere

My last sources test e was fucking brutal. Tried it subq in the first pin like an idiot and ended up with a nasty welt that took a week and a half to go away. Had some of it purge from my side delt and end up holding at the bottom of the insertion. My whole right arm looked like Id gotten stung by a hornet. No matter where I put that shit, it hurt like hell.
I think some guys might be overdoing it on the BA because better more pip than infection risk. Thats literally the only reason I can think of for shit to be that harsh.

----------


## GearHeaded

Training update - so this is what training has been looking like.

very simple routine right now. I'll get more technical later on when I gain some mass and strength back that I had lost.

push, legs, pull , push , rest, legs, pull, push, rest

everything is simple meat and potato type exercises, mainly all compound .
bench press, overhead press, incline dumbbell, machine press, lateral raises, close grip bench
squat, belt squat, leg press, smith front squats, leg extension, leg curls
chest to bar pull-ups, lat pull down, Tbar rows, low cable row, chest supported row, rack deadlifts, shrugs

for now everything is just straight sets (no drop sets, rest pause, super sets, or anything like that for now).. most sets are RIR of 3 . I'll pick a couple select exercises and sets to go to failure and thats it.

pretty basic shit for now. 5-6 meals per day. compound exercises. a little bit of nandrolone and test. trying to sleep 8+ hours (even if I can't fall asleep I'm still in bed).

once I get to my past weight and regain my lost gains . I'll step it up

----------


## IronLiver

What are your thoughts on the Rich Piana arm feeder workouts? I decided to give it a try for the past 12 weeks, doing about 5 sets of 50 reps of curls and scull crushers with 5kg dumbells in the afternoon and evenings. Trying to really focus on a slow negative and the contraction for each repitition. I've been getting better arm pumps doing this than I do in the gym...

----------


## GearHeaded

post workout meal done
15iu insulin 
entire box of Mac and cheese (750 cals, 150g carbs, 30g protein)
4oz lean turkey

still deciding on what to eat next  :Smilie: 

not really what my diet calls for . but right now I'm just trying to slam as many calories as I can and gain some of my weight back

----------


## GearHeaded

> What are your thoughts on the Rich Piana arm feeder workouts? I decided to give it a try for the past 12 weeks, doing about 5 sets of 50 reps of curls and scull crushers with 5kg dumbells in the afternoon and evenings. Trying to really focus on a slow negative and the contraction for each repitition. I've been getting better arm pumps doing this than I do in the gym...


yes I'm a fan of feeder sets . Rich Piana made them popular , but truth is they have been part of exercise science for a very long time. its technically called "cell swelling sets" . this is where you take smaller muscle groups with a high stimulus to fatigue ratio, and your train them apart from your normal workout for very high reps and light weight (40-60 reps generally) . to drive blood and cause "swelling" in the muscle cells.

I think they work great and will not cause too much fatigue and may help bring nutrients and blood to the muscle trained and even promote recovery from your heavier loaded workouts. 

delts, biceps, triceps, calves .. all good muscle groups to do cell swelling work for.

I'm trying to bring my biceps up , so maybe I'll start implementing them in again .

that is, after I finish the Rich Piana 8 hour arm day workout  :Smilie:

----------


## C27H40O3

> When I started reading this, I thought that my next diet would include alcoholic beverages. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah. Me too. If a few shots before bed destroyed his appetite, Im hitting the liquor store today. 

Who knew?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Proximal

Red wine works nicely for me. Nice night’s sleep & no hangover.

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## Proximal

> and before someone jumps on here and accuses me of bashing domestic UGLs , I'm not. I'm just stating my current experience right now.
> I'm all knotted up and swollen from some gear. just stating thats never happened with international sources.
> I'm not naming the lab either. it doesn't matter. every UGL is going to likely have some hit or misses. just like some International sources have their problems as well and your gear gets stuck in customs for months.


Im new to this game, but I just thought this was part of it, which is why you have multiple sources. 

Shit, last Summer my tren & Dbol just didnt feel as effective as everyone here says happens to them. So I try another source & all is copacetic. 

From the way you guys are describing it though, I consider myself fortunate to have not had any pip.

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## i_SLAM_cougars

> Red wine works nicely for me. Nice nights sleep & no hangover.


Must be nice. Theres no hangover like a wine hangover for me

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## Proximal

> Must be nice. There’s no hangover like a wine hangover for me


I’m pretty lucky in the hangover department, lol.

----------


## GearHeaded

well its been 7-8 days of a consistent strong appetite and good digestion all week . I'm up 12 pounds in that time.. not too shabby. shows just how depleted of glycogen I was from my past stomach problems and running that keto diet for a few weeks. 

also, I started pinning injectible Anadrol a few days ago. today the lower back pumps during squats were sick. only 25mg of Adrol. damn that shit kicks in fast!

----------


## i_SLAM_cougars

> well its been 7-8 days of a consistent strong appetite and good digestion all week . I'm up 12 pounds in that time.. not too shabby. shows just how depleted of glycogen I was from my past stomach problems and running that keto diet for a few weeks. 
> 
> also, I started pinning injectible Anadrol a few days ago. today the lower back pumps during squats were sick. only 25mg of Adrol. damn that shit kicks in fast!


Is there any advantages to injectable drol over oral? Easier on your guts?

----------


## GearHeaded

> Is there any advantages to injectable drol over oral? Easier on your guts?


yes, it doesn't negatively effect appetite as much as oral . I've got some high quality pharma Iranian 50mg Adrol tabs calling my name here , but I don't want to chance my appetite at this point, so I'm just going with the injectible stuff for now

----------


## GearHeaded

my 2020 gear protocol -- 6 month goal, put on about 35 pounds from the low weight I hit this year

I'm going to run a base for 6 months straight, with phase cycling and compound rotations added to that base at various times

my base - will run this for 6 months straight 
250mg test a week
300mg deca a week

my first 'phase' and compound rotation - volumization phase (about 6 or so weeks)
350mg NPP
350mg Mast
30mg injectible Anadrol day
30mg Dbol day

next - androgen and cosmetic phase (only about 4-5 weeks)
350mg Mast
400mg Tren 
20mg Dbol pre workout only

cruise for about 5 weeks.. then

anabolic phase
500mg EQ
150mg tren
25mg Winny
25mg Var

then assess and adjust from there for the last part of the 6 months 


being 'brands' seem to be a hot debatable topic recently,, and I'm not a brand loyalist at all and will use various different brands based on compounds I'm running and other factors . I will list some of the brands I'll be running

Bayer Test, and then 7l pharma test
Dragon Pharma Deca
Val NPP (finishing up val mast e front load right now)
Vermodjie Mast
Vermodjie Tri Tren
Euro-pharm tren base
Valkyrie inject Andarol, Iranian hormone oral Adrol
Balkan Dbol
Blakan Winny
Roxpharama Var
Euro-pharma EQ, Valkyrie EQ

----------


## charger69

> my 2020 gear protocol -- 6 month goal, put on about 35 pounds from the low weight I hit this year
> 
> I'm going to run a base for 6 months straight, with phase cycling and compound rotations added to that base at various times
> 
> my base - will run this for 6 months straight 
> 250mg test a week
> 300mg deca a week
> 
> my first 'phase' and compound rotation - volumization phase (about 6 or so weeks)
> ...


You really do not have much that aromatize s. Why the deca and the NPP together and not just one. I think it is for a kickstart (NPP) and for the long term with the deca. Why not frontload??


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## GearHeaded

> You really do not have much that aromatize s. Why the deca and the NPP together and not just one. I think it is for a kickstart (NPP) and for the long term with the deca. Why not frontload??


no not a ton of aromatization, everything is pretty mild and fairly low dosages for me . I forgot to mention, at various times I may double up on the test dosage for the week , hit 500-750mg on some weeks just to get more estrogen if I feel I need it.

as for NPP on top of deca . well I already have the NPP on hand and so will just use it being I got it.. also the first phase in only 6 weeks long. NPP (with deca as a base in the background) is going to provide more effeciency during that 6 weeks then front loading deca would.
being I'm running deca for 6 months straight, don't really want to front load. If I was only running deca for 8-10 weeks then I'd likely front load it at 1000mg for the first couple weeks.. so I'll just use the NPP I have on hand for that 6 weeks phase instead

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## IronLiver

No poptarts and insulin ?

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## GearHeaded

> No poptarts and insulin?


lol.. insulin is pretty much a given. I already shot 10iu for breakfast with my cream of rice

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## GearHeaded

pre cycle/ pre blast, update pic..

so after many many months of slacking, not eating, having digestion problems, drinking whisky every night ,, and all that bullshit.

heres where my physique is at today and my starting point going into this cycle.
I'm looking pretty damn small at the moment. but thats why I set the goal at gaining 35 pounds over the next 6 months . looking back over stuff , I haven't ran a full blown long term successful cycle since January last year. so hopefully shit stays on track and I can string together a good run finally.

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## Proximal

Great starting point. 

Good luck GH!

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## IronLiver

You're only doing 250mg test for all 6 months?

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## GearHeaded

> You're only doing 250mg test for all 6 months?



well thats my minimum 'base' . there will probably be a couple weeks here and there where I bump it to 500-750 for a short time. BUT I'm primarily going to rely on anabolics as my heavy hitters. Anabolics are way more efficient at building 'new tissue' and quality keepable gains compared to test. Test is a naturally occurring androgen, its very 'cosmetic' in nature and not the greatest new muscle tissue builder (in comparison to anabolics).

guys that 'blow up' on test only cycles, generally have to keep running a fairly moderate dose of test in order to keep those 'cosmetic' gains.
blowing up on Deca , Primo, Var and Tren over 6+ months is going to lead to actual new quality tissue that is sustainable. 

mg per mg Test is not very anabolic compared to other drugs. thats because 40+% of the test you take is converting over to DHT (which is not anabolic in muscle tissue at all) and estrogen (which is beneficial for gains, but is not as anabolic as a pure anabolic steroid itself).
so 500mg of test , is really only giving you 280mg of anabolism at a very low anabolic rating of 100.

where as something like Var is not going to convert to dht or estrogen, and it will all go to anabolism. so 500mg of Var will give you about 3000mg of anabolic load (in comparison to test)


so I'm relying more on anabolic properties for this 6 month run.


having said that -- TEST at high dosages, 1500+ mg per week, is a whole different thing. it takes on a new 'nature' sort of speak and it can be pretty damn anabolic at those dosages.. but for the most part, your basic 500mg or so test only cycle is mainly cosmetic and not really all that anabolic. and most guys are going to have to stay on that dose year round to maintain the cosmetic look they get from test only cycles .

most guys that talk about losing all their gains after cycle, are guys that run moderate dose test only cycles .

note- I'm running 250mg test as a base mainly to get the aromatization out of it

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## GearHeaded

going to give some props to a client of mine. been his off season and we've been bulking trying to put on as much size as possible before going into contest prep mode. its been damn successful so far. bulked up to 255 pounds , and still really LEAN.
probably put on around 25 pounds of quality tissue. he's a work horse and been pounding 5500 cals per day, gym 6 days a week, and been on top of the AAS protocols and compound rotation. 
hard work pays off! yes you can lean bulk, it just takes discipline and the right protocols

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## charger69

> going to give some props to a client of mine. been his off season and we've been bulking trying to put on as much size as possible before going into contest prep mode. its been damn successful so far. bulked up to 255 pounds , and still really LEAN.
> probably put on around 25 pounds of quality tissue. he's a work horse and been pounding 5500 cals per day, gym 6 days a week, and been on top of the AAS protocols and compound rotation. 
> hard work pays off! yes you can lean bulk, it just takes discipline and the right protocols


Holy shit! Looking great. Just let me know where he is competing so I dont compete there. LOL


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## GearHeaded

update 

so the weight gain has stalled out. as to be expected around this time. I'm stalled at about 14 pounds up.

easy little adjustments to get things trending upward again though.

- I took 3 days off training to help boost recovery (I also needed to try and shake this cold bug I've been fighting)

- I was only taking in a whey shake upon waking in the AM in milk. ,, but now upon waking, I take the same whey shake, then add 10iu of insulin , 10mg of Dbol , and 40g of carbs.

- I'm adding 25mg of oral Anadrol to my 30mg of injectible anadrol

- I'm adding in more carbs to each meal


simple little adjustments here. nothing extreme.. weight should begin trending back up again .

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## GearHeaded

update -
thought I was just coming down with and/or had a cold bug or flu or something.. ended up extremely ill and spent a couple nights in the hospital to get IV fluids in and on antibiotics. not really able to function at all right now. fever, delirious, chills. need to follow up with docs . more going on then just a flu bug (not AAS or bodybuilding related). several factors kinda accumulated all at once on me and what landed me in the ER. have bad stomach pain and pancreatitis on top of it. not going to be eating much anytime soon now

----------


## moetorious

> update -
> thought I was just coming down with and/or had a cold bug or flu or something.. ended up extremely ill and spent a couple nights in the hospital to get IV fluids in and on antibiotics. not really able to function at all right now. fever, delirious, chills. need to follow up with docs . more going on then just a flu bug (not AAS or bodybuilding related). several factors kinda accumulated all at once on me and what landed me in the ER. have bad stomach pain and pancreatitis on top of it. not going to be eating much anytime soon now


Hope you recover soon.

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## Charlie67

> update -
> thought I was just coming down with and/or had a cold bug or flu or something.. ended up extremely ill and spent a couple nights in the hospital to get IV fluids in and on antibiotics. not really able to function at all right now. fever, delirious, chills. need to follow up with docs . more going on then just a flu bug (not AAS or bodybuilding related). several factors kinda accumulated all at once on me and what landed me in the ER. have bad stomach pain and pancreatitis on top of it. not going to be eating much anytime soon now


Doesn't seem right to "like" that post, lol. Glad you're feeling better.

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## kelkel

> update -
> thought I was just coming down with and/or had a cold bug or flu or something.. ended up extremely ill and spent a couple nights in the hospital to get IV fluids in and on antibiotics. not really able to function at all right now. fever, delirious, chills. need to follow up with docs . more going on then just a flu bug (not AAS or bodybuilding related). several factors kinda accumulated all at once on me and what landed me in the ER. have bad stomach pain and pancreatitis on top of it. not going to be eating much anytime soon now



Very sorry to hear this! Hope you feel better soon!
How'd your BW look or did you get any questions from the doc's?

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## Obs

> update -
> thought I was just coming down with and/or had a cold bug or flu or something.. ended up extremely ill and spent a couple nights in the hospital to get IV fluids in and on antibiotics. not really able to function at all right now. fever, delirious, chills. need to follow up with docs . more going on then just a flu bug (not AAS or bodybuilding related). several factors kinda accumulated all at once on me and what landed me in the ER. have bad stomach pain and pancreatitis on top of it. not going to be eating much anytime soon now


Sorry man. 
Make a speedy recovery

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## charger69

At least he didnt break any bones this time. 


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## Obs

> At least he didn’t break any bones this time. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wtf did you infect him with you perv?

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## Proximal

Damn GH, get better brother!

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## GearHeaded

update -

absolute utter dog shit the last 6 days or so. been taking anti biotics and pain pills. have not left the house in a week. I'm done with these pills cause they are Fing with my brain and my blood sugar (blood sugar should not be 160 when you have not even eaten a meal in 3 days). appetite was totally crashed. which is probably a good thing when you have pancreatitis and are not supposed to eat anyhow.

I dropped these meds altogether and been off for the last 30 hours or more.

beast mode just took over. with that shit out of my system my appetite just came back in full force.. I just slammed in one sitting
7 whole eggs
6oz steak
3 cups rice
3 cups spinach
a bag of pretzels 

and now I'm about to go lay down and eat a bag of M&Ms 

if my pancreas gives out and you guys never hear from me again you know I'm going out in style .. I'll probably go shoot 3cc of Tren just for the fuck of it as well. dumping these anti biotics and pain pills down the toilet.

----------


## GearHeaded

edit - double post

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## Obs

Thats some terrible shit. Glad its getting better. I hate being sick.

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## GearHeaded

ugh ... contemplating another trip to the ER. keep getting these really bad and weird shooting chest pains. yesterday I blacked out and hit the floor just out of the blue. thought the brain fog was from the anti biotcs but I've not been on them in days. stupid ears keep ringing and full of pressure and its annoying the fk out of me

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## KINGKONG

> ugh ... contemplating another trip to the ER. keep getting these really bad and weird shooting chest pains. yesterday I blacked out and hit the floor just out of the blue. thought the brain fog was from the anti biotcs but I've not been on them in days. stupid ears keep ringing and full of pressure and its annoying the fk out of me


Damn man...sounds like your body is just shutting down for whatever reason..you know exactly what you gotta do R&R
Best wishes man 


The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing Socrates

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## GearHeaded

> Damn man...sounds like your body is just shutting down for whatever reason..you know exactly what you gotta do R&R
> Best wishes man 
> 
> 
> “The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing” Socrates


sucks .. I'm just sitting here with these weird pains contemplating if I want to go and get a 3500$ medical er bill when all I may need is a 30$ chiropractic adjustment cause I just have a rib head out of place

----------


## Charlie67

> sucks .. I'm just sitting here with these weird pains contemplating if I want to go and get a 3500$ medical er bill when all I may need is a 30$ chiropractic adjustment cause I just have a rib head out of place


Ah man.... I hope you feel better soon!

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## GearHeaded

I need to write myself a diet and program etc. and start coaching myself instead of just everyone else lol . I feel absolutely miserable physical wise right now. should start following my own advice

----------


## KINGKONG

> sucks .. I'm just sitting here with these weird pains contemplating if I want to go and get a 3500$ medical er bill when all I may need is a 30$ chiropractic adjustment cause I just have a rib head out of place


Fucking American medical system!
You ever talked to doctors from other countries..They laugh at our non practical pharmaceutical approach..You hurt..instead of finding the cause its heres some pills that will be a nightmare to come off of..why $$$$$
Sorry for hijacking man, just sore subject


The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing Socrates

----------


## GearHeaded

> Fucking American medical system!
> You ever talked to doctors from other countries..They laugh at our non practical pharmaceutical approach..You hurt..instead of finding the cause it’s here’s some pills that will be a nightmare to come off of..why $$$$$
> Sorry for hijacking man, just sore subject
> 
> 
> “The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing” Socrates


yeah I get it .. my mom died in her mid 40s because of being over prescribed pain pills for her aches and pains. I've had close to 10 surgeries in my life and spent months hooked on pain pills that almost killed me as well (I'm talking a pulse rate of 20 and blood pressure of 40/25).
a doc visit will end up in running a bunch of tests that actually don't do a single thing for you (they have to pay for their fancy machines) and a prescription to big pharma. thats about it

the answer is generally in nutrition and your own health . not pills

----------


## Obs

> yeah I get it .. my mom died in her mid 40s because of being over prescribed pain pills for her aches and pains. I've had close to 10 surgeries in my life and spent months hooked on pain pills that almost killed me as well (I'm talking a pulse rate of 20 and blood pressure of 40/25).
> a doc visit will end up in running a bunch of tests that actually don't do a single thing for you (they have to pay for their fancy machines) and a prescription to big pharma. thats about it
> 
> the answer is generally in nutrition and your own health . not pills


Thats a good post.

----------


## Obs

> sucks .. I'm just sitting here with these weird pains contemplating if I want to go and get a 3500$ medical er bill when all I may need is a 30$ chiropractic adjustment cause I just have a rib head out of place


Go to a GOOD chiro

----------


## IronLiver

> I need to write myself a diet and program etc. and start coaching myself instead of just everyone else lol . I feel absolutely miserable physical wise right now. should start following my own advice


I'll make a diet plan for you GearHeaded.

----------


## GearHeaded

> I'll make a diet plan for you GearHeaded.


yeah but I can't eat raw meat though . 
from my religious and cultural background cooking meat is the only way to eat it. its a sacrificial offering and meal between me and my god. the cooking of the meat after the offering of the animal is a smoke that goes up into heaven and is a pleasant smell and offering to his , ie the gods, nostrils.
I know that may sound silly . but thats cultural and religious and something built into some human cultures over thousands and thousands of years (wither pagan, crhistian, etc.).
cooking meat is a cultural and religious experience and way of life for me.. which is why I've always raged against vegans . because my god(s) have never accepted offerings of veggies. my cultures have never accepted this garbage.. we only present an animal sacrifice and we present it cooked where the smoke of the flesh can go up to heaven and appease the god(s) . and thats how we fellowship with him(them)

----------


## KINGKONG

> Thats a good post.


It really is,..they give away drugs that are the hardest to kick and deadly af right at Walmart..
Too much money to be lost to care..
Then when you cant pay here comes heroin..then your life is over..
Sorry hear about your mom GearHeaded..
Ive lost many to overdoses, they dont suprise me anymore..just part of American culture.



The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing Socratesä

----------


## IronLiver

> yeah but I can't eat raw meat though . 
> from my religious and cultural background cooking meat is the only way to eat it. its a sacrificial offering and meal between me and my god. the cooking of the meat after the offering of the animal is a smoke that goes up into heaven and is a pleasant smell and offering to his , ie the gods, nostrils.
> I know that may sound silly . but thats cultural and religious and something built into some human cultures over thousands and thousands of years (wither pagan, crhistian, etc.).
> cooking meat is a cultural and religious experience and way of life for me.. which is why I've always raged against vegans . because my god(s) have never accepted offerings of veggies. my cultures have never accepted this garbage.. we only present an animal sacrifice and we present it cooked where the smoke of the flesh can go up to heaven and appease the god(s) . and thats how we fellowship with him(them)


I have a jewish friend that I helped get his health back by getting into eating raw eggs and raw fish. He was eating pretty much all plant based and wouldn't eat anything that's not kosher. Also, got him into raw butter and now he eats a ton of that and just got a new girlfriend and turned his life around. 

It's not only about eating raw meat but also about getting the nutritents from the best possible sources. For example, finding the best farms to get raw milk from, making raw butter, finding raw honey, fresh cheese, etc. You can also eat fresh raw fish? I'm sure your gods don't want you to be unhealthy and ill from a diet of cooked meats that your body might have difficulty digesting properly. But if people are unwilling to eat certain foods because of there religious beliefs then obviouslly I can't help them.

----------


## GearHeaded

> It really is,..they give away drugs that are the hardest to kick and deadly af right at Walmart..
> Too much money to be lost to care..
> Then when you can’t pay here comes heroin..then your life is over..
> Sorry hear about your mom GearHeaded..
> I’ve lost many to overdoses, they don’t suprise me anymore..just part of American culture.
> 
> 
> 
> “The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing” Socratesä



Lol . I love the reason for editing post comment

----------


## GearHeaded

I'm getting to the point of total frustration and pissed off.. I've got clients I've been cancelling on all week cause I've not felt well enough to leave the house let alone train myself. 
this is not a good start to the new year.


its funny the only thing I'm craving is eggs, steak, and rice. I think there is something about that combo. take 7oz of steak chopped up really small pieces, and sear it. then take your eggs and put them in a frying pan but make sure the pan has boiling hot chicken broth and butter in it. the eggs will cook in the broth and be half fried and half poached . then take the steak, the eggs, and a couple cups of rice and mix it all together . add a bit of cooked spinach or salsa

----------


## charger69

> I'm getting to the point of total frustration and pissed off.. I've got clients I've been cancelling on all week cause I've not felt well enough to leave the house let alone train myself. 
> this is not a good start to the new year.
> 
> 
> its funny the only thing I'm craving is eggs, steak, and rice. I think there is something about that combo. take 7oz of steak chopped up really small pieces, and sear it. then take your eggs and put them in a frying pan but make sure the pan has boiling hot chicken broth and butter in it. the eggs will cook in the broth and be half fried and half poached . then take the steak, the eggs, and a couple cups of rice and mix it all together . add a bit of cooked spinach or salsa


Butter?????? No wonder why you dont feel good. LOL



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## GearHeaded

> Butter?????? No wonder why you don’t feel good. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


yeah I know its clogged my arteries

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## IronLiver

> Butter?????? No wonder why you dont feel good. LOL


Butter is possibly the most important nutrient. Fats cleanse, fuel, lubricate and protect the body and is needed more than any protein, sugar or starch. People who eat low fat diets develop terrible immune deficiencies. I do not agree with cooking butter and if you cook it much over 100°F it become almost impossible to digest and will not properly bind with toxins. Without raw fat to escort toxins to the bowels, toxins will often stay in the body. Fresh cheese is of course one of the best ways to get good fats as well.

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## charger69

> Butter is possibly the most important nutrient. Fats cleanse, fuel, lubricate and protect the body and is needed more than any protein, sugar or starch. People who eat low fat diets develop terrible immune deficiencies. I do not agree with cooking butter and if you cook it much over 100°F it become almost impossible to digest and will not properly bind with toxins. Without raw fat to escort toxins to the bowels, toxins will often stay in the body. Fresh cheese is of course one of the best ways to get good fats as well.


No cheese and no butter happening here. LOL


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## IronLiver

> No cheese and no butter happening here. LOL


Why?

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## 99JT

> yeah I get it .. my mom died in her mid 40s because of being over prescribed pain pills for her aches and pains. I've had close to 10 surgeries in my life and spent months hooked on pain pills that almost killed me as well (I'm talking a pulse rate of 20 and blood pressure of 40/25).
> a doc visit will end up in running a bunch of tests that actually don't do a single thing for you (they have to pay for their fancy machines) and a prescription to big pharma. thats about it
> 
> the answer is generally in nutrition and your own health . not pills


 Same thing happened to my mom in her early 50s doctors keep misdiagnosing her and giving pain pills, and meds to counteract the sides then one day she just had a massive heart attack and the doctor said an autopsy wasn't necessary because it was a natural cause.

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## charger69

> No cheese and no butter happening here. LOL
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Im a fussy eater and I get most of my fats from my protein. 


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## -Ender-

> I'm getting to the point of total frustration and pissed off.. I've got clients I've been cancelling on all week cause I've not felt well enough to leave the house let alone train myself. 
> this is not a good start to the new year.
> 
> 
> its funny the only thing I'm craving is eggs, steak, and rice. I think there is something about that combo. take 7oz of steak chopped up really small pieces, and sear it. then take your eggs and put them in a frying pan but make sure the pan has boiling hot chicken broth and butter in it. the eggs will cook in the broth and be half fried and half poached . then take the steak, the eggs, and a couple cups of rice and mix it all together . add a bit of cooked spinach or salsa


I have that same craving on a regular basis.
That's pretty damn close to Monster Mash. Efferding's Vertical Diet does fill a void in my nutrition from time to time. I also find myself craving it. Has to mean something.

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## teejey

@GearHeaded any chest pain updates?

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## GearHeaded

> @GearHeaded any chest pain updates?
> 
> Sent from my moto g(7) play using Tapatalk


I spent the other night sleeping on the hard tile bathroom floor puking every hour.. I think its this pancreatitus radiating pain into my chest and my back, and not "heart pain" .
I'm supposed to schedule an MRI for my stomach where I drink a gallon of contrast dye ahead of time so they can see how my organs are.
the ultra sound already confirmed acute pancreatitis but they want to look deeper.. unfortunately I don't have 2800$ for this test so I'll just figure it out on my own 

I've lost 16 pounds in 14 days .. whatever, I'll bounce back. never been this sick before

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## 99JT

> I spent the other night sleeping on the hard tile bathroom floor puking every hour.. I think its this pancreatitus radiating pain into my chest and my back, and not "heart pain" .
> I'm supposed to schedule an MRI for my stomach where I drink a gallon of contrast dye ahead of time so they can see how my organs are.
> the ultra sound already confirmed acute pancreatitis but they want to look deeper.. unfortunately I don't have 2800$ for this test so I'll just figure it out on my own 
> 
> I've lost 16 pounds in 14 days .. whatever, I'll bounce back. never been this sick before


Hopefully you get better soon. I think I took your 16 lbs.

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## GearHeaded

> Hopefully you get better soon. I think I took your 16 lbs.


yes I give a lot back to my clients .. you can have my 16 pounds  :Wink: 
but your right , at the end of the day seeing you guys succeed is my main purpose in life. its what makes me work

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## charger69

> I spent the other night sleeping on the hard tile bathroom floor puking every hour.. I think its this pancreatitus radiating pain into my chest and my back, and not "heart pain" .
> I'm supposed to schedule an MRI for my stomach where I drink a gallon of contrast dye ahead of time so they can see how my organs are.
> the ultra sound already confirmed acute pancreatitis but they want to look deeper.. unfortunately I don't have 2800$ for this test so I'll just figure it out on my own 
> 
> I've lost 16 pounds in 14 days .. whatever, I'll bounce back. never been this sick before


Im going to start calling you a tweeker. LOL


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## GearHeaded

> I’m going to start calling you a tweeker. LOL
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


yeah but I hate stimulants and you know this .. heck I helped you from a near heart attack telling you to back off the stims and cut them out just before your heart went whacky and you ended up in the ER..  :Smilie:

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## GearHeaded

opinion , is this tattoo of mine a dagger of death or of life. anyone of Celtic knowledge please enlighten me

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## i_SLAM_cougars

> yeah but I hate stimulants and you know this .. heck I helped you from a near heart attack telling you to back off the stims and cut them out just before your heart went whacky and you ended up in the ER..


Stimulants are life

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## charger69

> yeah but I hate stimulants and you know this .. heck I helped you from a near heart attack telling you to back off the stims and cut them out just before your heart went whacky and you ended up in the ER..


I know but losing that much weight its like being a tweeker. 


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## charger69

> Stimulants are life


Obs #2. LOL. Seriously I did go overboard and learned my lesson. 


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## i_SLAM_cougars

> Obs #2. LOL. Seriously I did go overboard and learned my lesson. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It happens to the best of us. The important thing to remember is...

Don’t be a pussy

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## C27H40O3

> opinion , is this tattoo of mine a dagger of death or of life. anyone of Celtic knowledge please enlighten me


I dont know about that stuff, but one observation is I bet the blood draw labs love to see you when you show up for bloodwork. Multiple great veins to choose from. 


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## C27H40O3

> I'm getting to the point of total frustration and pissed off.. I've got clients I've been cancelling on all week cause I've not felt well enough to leave the house let alone train myself. 
> this is not a good start to the new year.
> 
> 
> its funny the only thing I'm craving is eggs, steak, and rice. I think there is something about that combo. take 7oz of steak chopped up really small pieces, and sear it. then take your eggs and put them in a frying pan but make sure the pan has boiling hot chicken broth and butter in it. the eggs will cook in the broth and be half fried and half poached . then take the steak, the eggs, and a couple cups of rice and mix it all together . add a bit of cooked spinach or salsa


Sounds like what i ordered at the hibachi spot yesterday. 


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## 99JT

> Obs #2. LOL. Seriously I did go overboard and learned my lesson. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What was overboard?

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## kelkel

> I spent the other night sleeping on the hard tile bathroom floor puking every hour.. I think its this pancreatitus radiating pain into my chest and my back, and not "heart pain" .
> I'm supposed to schedule an MRI for my stomach where I drink a gallon of contrast dye ahead of time so they can see how my organs are.
> the ultra sound already confirmed acute pancreatitis but they want to look deeper.. unfortunately I don't have 2800$ for this test so I'll just figure it out on my own 
> 
> I've lost 16 pounds in 14 days .. whatever, I'll bounce back. never been this sick before



Damn GH, that sucks big time. This too will pass.

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## almostgone

Shit, hate to hear this GH. Been following the thread as you've posted updates, and I was almost going to suggest gallbladder issues, but if imaging showed pancreatitis, then it could be a combination of the 2.

Don't fvck around with it too long. I know $$ are an issue, but this may need a little treatment beyond what you can treat on your own. Even if it's acute, at some point you'll want to get square so a recurrence can be avoided.

Good luck and post updates frequently.  :Smilie:

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## GearHeaded

> What was overboard?


way too much T3 and ephedrine while on high dose tren as well .. heart went into arythmia and ended up in the ER.

but he is a bad ass, he pulled through that no problem. we adjusted his protocol and he went on to kill it on a bodybuilding stage just 5 weeks later

and NO , btw, I don't ever protocol high dose T3 and ephedrine or high dose clen . that wasn't part of the protocol  :Smilie:

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## GearHeaded

I slept for about 16 hours.. which I needed cause I've been exhausted and not sleeping well at all , and waking up at 3am every morning as usual .
woke up and had a half cup of coffee then puked it up

I should probably get some Pedialyte and sip on that. if my damn stomach will settle down would be nice to get some nutrition in me

a week or so ago I pounded like 3000 cals in one sitting cause I was so depleted and starving .. unfortunately I think that put a ton of extra strain and stress on both my pancreas and prob gallbladder (per almostgone post) , which essentially need to "rest" to get the inflammation down.
kinda sucks to have the goal of wanting to get huge, shoot a ton of gear, lift heavy ass weight.. yet have to purposely not eat food so your pancreas can heal

at least the flu bug I had subsided.. still got lingering double ear infections. but I never finished taking the anti biotics

man , just typing this post out I'm realizing I'm an absolute mess. heck 4 or so weeks ago I felt great. downward spiral everything kinda just hit all at once.
at least I figured out a lot of my stomach issues over the past year or so are likely due to my pancreas and gallbladder getting inflamed. years of drinking shots of whisky to help me go to sleep at night probably caused this.

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## GearHeaded

> Shit, hate to hear this GH. Been following the thread as you've posted updates, and I was almost going to suggest gallbladder issues, but if imaging showed pancreatitis, then it could be a combination of the 2.
> 
> Don't fvck around with it too long. I know $$ are an issue, but this may need a little treatment beyond what you can treat on your own. Even if it's acute, at some point you'll want to get square so a recurrence can be avoided.
> 
> Good luck and post updates frequently.


thank you brother , appreciate the support and advice . I know you've had your fair share of health issues you had to battle out against as well

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## almostgone

> I slept for about 16 hours.. which I needed cause I've been exhausted and not sleeping well at all , and waking up at 3am every morning as usual .
> woke up and had a half cup of coffee then puked it up
> 
> I should probably get some Pedialyte and sip on that. if my damn stomach will settle down would be nice to get some nutrition in me
> 
> a week or so ago I pounded like 3000 cals in one sitting cause I was so depleted and starving .. unfortunately I think that put a ton of extra strain and stress on both my pancreas and prob gallbladder (per almostgone post) , which essentially need to "rest" to get the inflammation down.
> kinda sucks to have the goal of wanting to get huge, shoot a ton of gear, lift heavy ass weight.. yet have to purposely not eat food so your pancreas can heal
> 
> at least the flu bug I had subsided.. still got lingering double ear infections. but I never finished taking the anti biotics
> ...


Definitely a go on the electrolytes and small amounts of food that you think your system can handle. Maybe soft scrambled eggs, small amounts of baked potatoes as tolerated ( I don't use butter or rarely a little margarine, but a tablespoon or two of plain FF Chobani yogurt improves russet or red potatoes somewhat). I'm not one for bananas, but maybe some mashed up bananas. IDK.... applesauce anything easy on the system that appeals to you, just don't upset the applecart by taking in too much at once.

Really wish I could offer more advice, but a lot depends on your taste buds right now and what your system will process. If you happen to have any pickled ginger slices lying around, they sometimes help me with bad intestinal issues, but that may not be something you want to consider.

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## GearHeaded

finally feeling better 

4 days ago I couldn't hold down a half cup of coffee without puking it right back up . 3 days ago I barely got down one can of soup. yesterday I got in a few simple meals no problem.

so tonight finally taking in a real 'bodybuilding meal' 
6oz salmon
200g of Jasmin rice
1 cup of veggies with olive oil and lime
3 slices of pineapple for digestion
teriyaki sauce

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## IronLiver

> finally feeling better


Glad to see you're still alive! I also enjoy adding some pineapple or papaya with my meals sometimes. Pineapple is supposed to help dissolve hardened fat, which helps to reduce the craving of alcohol.

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## Proximal

> finally feeling better 
> 
> 4 days ago I couldn't hold down a half cup of coffee without puking it right back up . 3 days ago I barely got down one can of soup. yesterday I got in a few simple meals no problem.
> 
> so tonight finally taking in a real 'bodybuilding meal' 
> 6oz salmon
> 200g of Jasmin rice
> 1 cup of veggies with olive oil and lime
> 3 slices of pineapple for digestion
> teriyaki sauce


Glad you’re on the mend GH.

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## GearHeaded

one of my favorite bodybuilders of all time . has anyone ever had a bad thing to say about this guy ?

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## KINGKONG

> one of my favorite bodybuilders of all time . has anyone ever had a bad thing to say about this guy ?


Seen this, I grew up lifting in my dads basement gym.brought back memories..I assume you've seen his cooking shows and shops?Evan is a really intelligent bodybuilder imo and I love his content..seems like they angled to like a Seth Feroce blue collar type thing here..hope it works for him..


The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing Socrates

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## GearHeaded

> .I assume you've seen his cooking shows and shops?Evan is a really intelligent bodybuilder imo and I love his content.


oh yeah I've seen all his cooking videos, shopping, meal prep, etc.. been following him for a long time. always respected his well balanced approach to nutrition, growing his own food, preparing dinner and meals for his whole family, etc..
and then of course their is his bad ass physique, and his meat and potato style basic training (no fancy bullshit, just push weight with intensity and focus and do it day in and day out)

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## KINGKONG

> oh yeah I've seen all his cooking videos, shopping, meal prep, etc.. been following him for a long time. always respected his well balanced approach to nutrition, growing his own food, preparing dinner and meals for his whole family, etc..
> and then of course their is his bad ass physique, and his meat and potato style basic training (no fancy bullshit, just push weight with intensity and focus and do it day in and day out)


He's a beast in the gym! I like his approach on nutrition too, no 40/50/10 bs..he's smashing 6 eggs daily and soaking his food in good fats..growing his own food, he even inspired my turmeric on rice fetish lol..if it wasn't for injuries, I feel he coulda had a much better career..in honor of Evan, iam gonna eat a nice omelet and catch up on any new content..hopefully this is start of some more videos by him..


The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing Socrates

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## GearHeaded

update -

so I'm feeling a million times better. stomach pain and nausea are completely gone. I'm getting 5 good meals in per day now (though my stomach shrank). Whatever flu bug I had is gone, but the ear aches are still lingering.

my weight had dropped to the lowest its been in a couple years (since my last back surgery where I was bed ridden for a long time)..
Pancreatitus is no joke. it'll F you up and ruin your life for the time that its going on.
there was a whirlwind of events that kinda all happened at once and looking back I see how things all lined up for me to get so damn sick.. but whatever, I'm on the mend now.


my only goal right now is to gain some damn weight back and get my strength back . I'm keeping most my food pretty simple and clean , don't know what may or may not cause a flare up . steak and potato, chicken and rice,, just the basics.

I'm back in the gym working and training clients. I've got about 5 training sessions in myself. I'm ridiculously weak. the severe dehydration and lack of nutrition over a period of weeks really took it out of me.
but muscle memory is a wonderful thing.. as long as I stay healthy I don't see why I can't put on a good 25 pounds and add 70 pounds to my bench in the next 8 weeks. as long as the nutrition is there.

bumping my TRT up, from basically non existent when I was sick (didn't bother injecting) to 750mg Sustanon per week.. with a low dose of Tren added in. mainly to help positive nutrient partitioning and help me fill back out and load up on glycogen. 

I'll be happy if I can just get back to a lean 215 pounds, overhead pressing 245, and benching 315 . I just need a good run with no set backs or injury or illnesses

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## GearHeaded

> He's a beast in the gym! I like his approach on nutrition too, no 40/50/10 bs..he's smashing 6 eggs daily and soaking his food in good fats..growing his own food, he even inspired my turmeric on rice fetish lol..if it wasn't for injuries, I feel he coulda had a much better career..in honor of Evan, iam gonna eat a nice omelet and catch up on any new content..hopefully this is start of some more videos by him..
> 
> 
> “The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing” Socrates



from what I hear he is going to be doing the New York Pro this year for his comeback show

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## KINGKONG

> from what I hear he is going to be doing the New York Pro this year for his comeback show


Hope he stays injury free and places well..it's a tough show, even for him..


The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing Socrates

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## kelkel

> and then of course their is his bad ass physique, and his meat and potato style basic training (no fancy bullshit, just push weight with intensity and focus and do it day in and day out)



And that's what it's about. Day in and day out consistency. It doesn't have to include all the fancy machines and frilly exercises that you see on IG. The basics simply work and always will.

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## kelkel

Glad to hear you're well GH.

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## Cuz

> Glad to hear you're well GH.


Agreed

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## GearHeaded

Update -

been super busy lately with some some stuff that came up, plus business tax time, etc.

anyhow. heres where I'm at.

I just started a 10 week 'contest prep' today (not for a show, for a transformation contest, first place wins a pretty big chunk of cash).
I need to recomp a bit and then get as lean and shredded as possible, then fill back out. I'll be treating this similar to an actual contest prep for show.

Now. my goal was to get as big and strong as I can and put on like 40 pounds and bulk for a year. had zero plans on cutting , dieting, or leaning out. BUT I could really use the $10k if I won,, so I guess a short step back to try and get that isn't really much a compromise. its only 10 weeks.


so I'll share a bit of the game plan. nothing fancy here, keeping it simple cause I got quite a bit other things going on. 

10 weeks contest prep. starting today. 
the first 3-4 weeks I'm just cruising on low dose test and deca , 150mg/150mg. Now I would generally never do that with a client. we would take advantage of the whole 10 weeks and likely phase cycle. but I have few different reasons that I need to do this right now and cruise right now and only want to blast hard for about 6 weeks. 

the cycle itself
500mg Sustanon 
500mg EQ (1000mg frontload)
450mg Tren (Tri-tren)
450mg Masteron 
35mg Winny W/ 20mg Var - per day
50mg Anadrol (only on high carb re-feed days, and leg days)

extras - 
10mg Nolva (last 4 weeks only)
50mcg T4 (maybe with 25mcg T3)
20iu insulin (on Anadrol days , with high carb re-feed and leg day)



Diet - 
300g protein, 200g carbs, 50g fats (fats will be cycled) .. w/ high carb day 1-2x per week

Meal plan example - 6 meals per day with one meal as a shake.
meal 1 - 50g protein shake

meal 2 - 50g protein , 20g carbs- egg whites, ground turkey, toast

meal 3 - 50g protein - chicken breast, veggies

meal 4 - 50g protein 50g carbs - tuna, white rice 

workout

meal 5 - 50g protein, 50g carbs - fish or chicken, potato 

meal 6 - 50g protein, 80g - lean ground beef, rice, veggies 

fats are only whats coming from the meat and a little bit of oil for cooking.. some days will be high fat days, like a rest day and I may swap out a chicken meal with a steak meal, but on a day like that carbs will be lowered. 

there are NO cheats .. a high carb re-feed is simply adding more rice and potato to my clean meals on that day. 


Cardio - 
to start . I'm doing 50 mins of steady state cardio in the morning AFTER meals 1 and 2,, then I have meal 3 after cardio.
you'll notice that my carbs are only 20 grams total during this 5 hour period. so the cardio is a ''carb depleted" form of cardio.
then another 20 mins cardio session post workout in the evening.

at about 5-6 weeks out I will also add in fasted morning cardio upon waking. 20 mins medium intensity on a spin bike before hitting the meal 1 protein shake. 

weight training -
6 days per week. each body part gets hit 2x per week.. the first time a body part gets hit its with heavier compound movements and lower reps. the second time in the week it gets hit its with lighter isolation movements and higher reps.



all pretty basic and simplistic con prep here. nothing overly fancy (of course I will have a peak weak strategy ,water manipulation strategy, salt and carb load strategy, etc.. the very last week to implement)

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## IronLiver

$10,000 for a transformation contest. Where do I sign up?

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## GearHeaded

this time of year all sorts of supplement companies are doing transformation challenges and have large cash prices.. Redcon1 gives like 10k, bodybuilding .com gives away like 25k. Enhanced Athlete did one before and gave 2500 (which I won). pretty common, lots of them out there. some of them you have to pay to enter or buy a certain amount of supplements to be entered.
you have to catch them in time though. its usually a limited amount of time to enter and then it closes off to everyone and you have to wait until next year.

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## balance

Sounds like an excellent plan to stay motivated! Hows your digestion been?


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## IronLiver

What's your experience been with TriTren? I just started taking it last week and so far it's great.

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## GearHeaded

> Sounds like an excellent plan to stay motivated! How’s your digestion been?


exactly . I been too easily side tracked by every little health issue and bump in the road, cause I really had no specific goal to keep me on track.

well since that last health issue and hospital stay, after that I had started bulking again. and my digestion was doing pretty well even in a calorie surplus.
couple of things I did that helped.
- I ate mainly basic food, like meat, rice, and potatoes 
- I added some fruits and fruit juices to nearly every meal . this helped me easily get in extra calories without having to binge on junk cheat meals to get extra cals in
- I started using Species Nutrition Fiberlyze supplement. that helped a ton surprisingly. I highly recommend it


now that I'm 'cutting' , I'm sure my digestion will improve as well just because my food volume and total cals will be down

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## GearHeaded

> What's your experience been with TriTren? I just started taking it last week and so far it's great.


well I was the type of guy that always ran Tren Ace daily , but even when doing that I would front load or just weekly run a bit of Tren E with it as well (just to keep a background longer ester maintaining levels)

so using Tri-Tren is basically just a convenience factor now . instead of having two different bottles and mixing injections , I can just pull from the Tri-Tren bottle and get the similar effects I was trying to achieve before

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## IronLiver

> exactly . I been too easily side tracked by every little health issue and bump in the road, cause I really had no specific goal to keep me on track.
> 
> well since that last health issue and hospital stay, after that I had started bulking again. and my digestion was doing pretty well even in a calorie surplus.
> couple of things I did that helped.
> - I ate mainly basic food, like meat, rice, and potatoes 
> - I added some fruits and fruit juices to nearly every meal . this helped me easily get in extra calories without having to binge on junk cheat meals to get extra cals in
> - I started using Species Nutrition Fiberlyze supplement. that helped a ton surprisingly. I highly recommend it
> 
> 
> now that I'm 'cutting' , I'm sure my digestion will improve as well just because my food volume and total cals will be down


Two of the best fruits to add to your diet that help with digestion are unripe pineapple and unripe papaya. The pineapple has the protein digesting enzyme bromelain and papaya has a similar enzyme called papain. If you eat the yellow ripe pineapple, it has less of the enzyme and more sugar, same with papaya. Most of the bromelain is in the core of the pineapple. What I like to do is take the core and chew it up suck out the juices and spit out the uneditable fiber parts. I also find that if you have a craving for alcohol, eating some pineapple helps eliminate the craving.

----------


## balance

> Two of the best fruits to add to your diet that help with digestion are unripe pineapple and unripe papaya. The pineapple has the protein digesting enzyme bromelain and papaya has a similar enzyme called papain. If you eat the yellow ripe pineapple, it has less of the enzyme and more sugar, same with papaya. Most of the bromelain is in the core of the pineapple. What I like to do is take the core and chew it up suck out the juices and spit out the uneditable fiber parts. I also find that if you have a craving for alcohol, eating some pineapple helps eliminate the craving.


Interesting as I actually eat the pineapple core and enjoy chewing on it, however the pineapple is ripened. I used to live in FL and we could grow pineapple in the yard. I have to ask though where are you finding such fruits that are not already ripe as grocers rarely have such. 


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## IronLiver

> Interesting as I actually eat the pineapple core and enjoy chewing on it, however the pineapple is ripened. I used to live in FL and we could grow pineapple in the yard. I have to ask though where are you finding such fruits that are not already ripe as grocers rarely have such. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I live in south america, so they are always in season here. It's very common here for the markets and grocery stores to carry plenty of unripe pineapples. I couldn't say where to get them in the US.

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## bwandrade

Hey GH, I am glad you are back and good luck with the contest.

About your morning cardio, are gonna use insulin before it at any point?

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## GearHeaded

> Hey GH, I am glad you are back and good luck with the contest.
> 
> About your morning cardio, are gonna use insulin before it at any point?


I only use insulin for fasted cardio if I'm also taking HGH or MK677, which I won't be taking during this prep.
the reason I only use them together is because the synergy of HGH being hyper-glycemic and insulin being hypo-glycemic. plus when combined together you get a much greater hepatic pulse of IGF.
your chances of going hypo using insulin fasted is much less when your HGH serum levels are elevated and glucagon is present in the blood stream . 

I only know of one person in fitness that died from insulin use , and that person was using it for fasted cardio. so again, I recommend guys only do this if they need to and are also running HGH/MK

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## GearHeaded

UPDATE - 
not much to report here. just been grinding it out , two a day workouts 6 days per week.
50 mins cardio at 7am, with misc. accessory work training of things like abs, calves, abducters, forearms, etc.. then in the afternoon I do my normal weight training with 30 mins of cardio post workout (thats about a 2 hour session).

diet is still super simple. no changes.. 6 meals per day, 300g of protein, 150-200g of carbs, no added fat.
egg whites with a couple yolks, chicken breast, lean steak, ground turkey.. white rice, or white bread. some veggies here and there. thats about it.

since starting the diet, I'm down about 8 pounds. my weight lifting belt is down a couple notches tighter.
I expect the weight loss to only continue for a short time more, then it will stop and likely it will reverse AS I get on cycle and the gear starts kicking in and loading me up with glycogen, water, nutrients, and blood volume. 
at this stage I will actually begin gaining weight and losing body fat at the. same time. ie, recomping.

I had been off cycle and just cruising on 150 test. the reason I started this prep and diet without starting a cycle is that I had got on new blood pressure medication and I wanted to see how the meds effected me and monitor my blood work for 3 weeks or so before I go throwing everything off with blasting a bunch of gear.
but now I'm ready. blood pressure is good. 120/70 consistently every day.

my simple blood pressure protocol 
25mg Atenolol (before bed)
25mg Lasortan (upon waking)
1 cap carditone daily 

zero side effects . blood pressure is good and resting heart rate is 69.

ready to blast. starting today with 750mg test and 50mg dbol daily, 30mg injectible Anadrol eod. just going to volumize for a couple weeks with that before moving on to my planned 'cut stack' as I laid it out above. I generally do this 'volumizing' stage with pretty much everyone in contest prep , however I prefer to start that earlier at about 16 weeks out. I don't have that kind of time so I'm only going to be able to do that for maybe 2 weeks (maybe I'll double the dosages)

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## kelkel

Glad you're back GH.

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## DrRoid

> Update -
> 10 weeks contest prep. starting today. 
> the first 3-4 weeks I'm just cruising on low dose test and deca , 150mg/150mg. Now I would generally never do that with a client. we would take advantage of the whole 10 weeks and likely phase cycle. but I have few different reasons that I need to do this right now and cruise right now and only want to blast hard for about 6 weeks. 
> 
> the cycle itself
> 500mg Sustanon 
> 500mg EQ (1000mg frontload)
> 450mg Tren (Tri-tren)
> 450mg Masteron 
> ...


Do you change the cycle over time ? You already know how the 6wks blast will look like ? Because androgens are already pretty high (Tren e.g.)Why not DNP, Clen, Yohimb., Halo maybe ?Why not increasing Var abit ?

Thanks  :Smilie: 

All the best for the prep

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## GearHeaded

> Do you change the cycle over time ? You already know how the 6wks blast will look like ? Because androgens are already pretty high (Tren e.g.)Why not DNP, Clen, Yohimb., Halo maybe ?Why not increasing Var abit ?
> 
> Thanks 
> 
> All the best for the prep


ok so often times when I post my own cycles , people think they are absolutely 'ideal' and everything is laid out with a perfect plan. but this is not always the case.
often times , its as simple as I'm only running 20mg of Var because thats all I have on hand  :Smilie: 

why no DNP ? my source has run dry, plus I don't have enough time or muscle for DNP right now . I lost a lot of muscle with that sickness and pancreatitis and all that crap I went through.. DNP would just strip me down even more. I don't have time for it. I need to fill out and get lean at the same time . dnp is best for just simply getting lean.

I do take Yohimbe before fasted cardio. I just didn't mention it.

I do have Clen on the way. however I'm on a beta blocker, so I can't depend on very much clen at all. I'll take my beta blocker before bed, then I'll take only 20mcg clen in the AM and thats it. Clen doesn't work as well when your on beta blockers for your heart.

halo . I simply can't afford it right now (same with HGH). instead, I'll just run higher doses of Tren to increase my androgen load when needed (even though ideal, adding halo would be the best bet)..


and like any and every cycle. nothing is fixed in stone. I don't believe in 'fixed' 12 week cycles. I rotate things as needed based on how the physique is progressing along side the diet and training program .
if my training calls for more androgen load, I'll give it more androgens. if my physiqe calls for more carbs then I may change my AAS and protocols to accompany more carbs . I do things 'on the fly' on an as needed basis.

same with clients. when they get an initial 16 weeks AAS program and compounds rotation protocol from me . what they actually end up doing as we go could be very different then what was originally planned.

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## IronLiver

> ¿
> 
> and like any and every cycle. nothing is fixed in stone. I don't believe in 'fixed' 12 week cycles. I rotate things as needed based on how the physique is progressing along side the diet and training program .
> if my training calls for more androgen load, I'll give it more androgens. if my physiqe calls for more carbs then I may change my AAS and protocols to accompany more carbs . I do things 'on the fly' on an as needed basis.
> ¿


How do you tell if your training requires a higher androgen load?

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## GearHeaded

> How do you tell if your training requires a higher androgen load?


if your dieting down yet still having carb re-feeds and have plenty of fats and salt, yet you can't get a pump at all and you feel weak and lethargic in the gym. increasing your androgen load (while dieting) or your estrogen load while bulking, well most definitely help with your pump and training intensity..

nattys would simply have to lower their training volume .. us enhanced folks need simply employ the right drugs  :Smilie:

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## IronLiver

> if your dieting down yet still having carb re-feeds and have plenty of fats and salt, yet you can't get a pump at all and you feel weak and lethargic in the gym. increasing your androgen load (while dieting) or your estrogen load while bulking, well most definitely help with your pump and training intensity..
> 
> nattys would simply have to lower their training volume .. us enhanced folks need simply employ the right drugs


I've been running tri-tren at 300mg for the past 4 weeks and feel great, with test at 500mg. I'm hesitant to go much higher because I like to get my sleep. Haven't lost as much weight as I thought I would... Maybe it's time for a higher androgen load?

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## GearHeaded

> I've been running tri-tren at 300mg for the past 4 weeks and feel great, with test at 500mg. I'm hesitant to go much higher because I like to get my sleep. Haven't lost as much weight as I thought I would... Maybe it's time for a higher androgen load?


well if your trying to bulk, adding some more estrogen load to that tren could be beneficial.. like 30mg a day of Dbol

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## GearHeaded

UPDATE -
well it kinda sucks to be so damn efficient at cardio.. thats my genetics though. I was a sponsored high level cyclist at 17 years old. to this day, an hour of cardio is a total breeze . a stiff incline and a fairly fast (just before a jog) pace for an hour on the treadmill barely gets my heart rate to 90 bpm.

so, I'm doing two hours of cardio per day. and two weight training sessions per day.
up at 6am.. coffee and some fat burners (and some Dbol ) and then hit the gym and do an hour cardio.
then post cardio do about 25 mins of accessory weight work (abs, calves, arms, etc).
then back at the gym later afternoon and do my normal weight training session. with 15 mins cardio after..
then back at he gym at night for 45 mins or so more cardio..


I'd rather stay active and burn more cals then simply eat less and consume less cals . but even saying, my diet is pretty strict too. 

so I was down 10 pounds and leaning out a lot . but just got on cycle and I'm back up 5 of those pounds (yet still dieting and lean) just cause of the glycogen retention from the gear.

I prefer bulking much more then cutting. but this shit has to get done , so be it

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## IronLiver

Giving away the pro secrets for free. My routine is pretty similar but a little less intense. I'm down about 10 lbs as well and have about another 10-15 to go. I started doing 20mg dbol in the mornings and increased tren and this week gained about 3 lbs, while in a pretty big caloric deficit. The glycogen retention is insane. Probably best just to not look at the scale, make sure all the calories are counted and get all the cardio and workouts in.

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## GearHeaded

UPDATE -

If its not one thing its another.. just when I finally was getting on track and getting things dialed in after spending last few years going though 4 surgeries, bankruptcy and other life bullshit and last few months getting extremely ill (I could go on and on), things were getting dialed in very well lately , but NO now that damn apocalypse has to hit. wtf 

no I don't believe in no apocalyptic end of the world bullshit. But as a gym owner forced to shut down , where I spent my entire life savings building this place, its an apocalyptic end for me. and so it is with lots of other small business right now.

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## GearHeaded

UPDATE - 

Holy shit life changes so fast.. a few weeks ago I was dieting myself , running an 800 member gym, and prepping clients for shows etc.. all gone. my gym has been closed by the govt. my bank account has went to zero , and my home is now under eviction . all in only a few weeks... man was that fast. 

life can change over night . there is no guarantee people !!

I went from being a very successful businessman living in my mansion on the golf course .. selling it all to build a gym and get into the fitness industry for my early retirement cause fitness was my passion.. to now nothing .

a member of my gym dropped off groceries for me knowing I have 4 kids to support. . that was awesome. 
another member of my gym just offered me a job , he owns a welding company, cause he knows I know how to work with my hands..
but shit , life changes fast. living life on the golf course, driving the Mercedes or the vette, sitting in an awesome home office making bank , then cashing that all out cause of my fitness passion, to suddenly losing it all and having to think about grinding metal in a shit plant . lol . just crazy how fast life changes. 

whatever , at the end of the day I'll do whatever needs to be done and will get it done

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## Chark

Good to see you’re keeping your chin up but so sorry to hear you’re going through this GH. You’ll prosper again, it’s what you do.

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## GearHeaded

> Good to see you’re keeping your chin up but so sorry to hear you’re going through this GH. You’ll prosper again, it’s what you do.


bad ass house . 

bad ass cars. 


I gave that all up and sold it all years ago to build a gym and get into the fitness industry and follow my passion and not possessions, .. now thats getting taken away.

I'll go work with my hands and weld or do whatever .. thats what built me to begin with. I built my whole life from working with my hands as a contractor and employing lots of people. was super successful at one point in my life and had it all , but sold it all cause none of that matters.

I may be running out of bubble gum , but I'm not running out of kicking ass !

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## GearHeaded

stopped by my gym today just make sure it wasn't broken into over the last couple weeks ..




sad an Erie to see it empty over night when it was thriving just a month ago. 


this is me at my local grocery store today trying to get some essentials .. but I couldn't find a single bag of potatoes , wtf !

a 13 year old girl here locally just died of covid . an acquaitice of mine just died and his son can't travel to bury him.. you really think I want to wear this stupid shit on my face in public at the store !! of course not. but I don't want anyone else to get sick. I don't want my kids to get sick. this is not an 'old person' virus.

there is more going on behind the scenes. but its not the time for conspiracy. just gotta protect everyone around us as best we can

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## killionb12

Just found this. I will be following bro! Good stuff! 


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## Chark

> stopped by my gym today just make sure it wasn't broken into over the last couple weeks ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sad an Erie to see it empty over night when it was thriving just a month ago. 
> 
> 
> this is me at my local grocery store today trying to get some essentials .. but I couldn't find a single bag of potatoes , wtf !
> ...


That’s a beautiful gym GH. Sorry to hear about the people around you. 13 year old girl...just awful. 

Keep doing what you need to do.

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## KINGKONG

13 yo girl, really makes me think..we already wear masks at work, maybe it's time to wear them anywhere outside my home..shame to see all that equipment not In use, beautiful gym you have built bro!


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## Eduke93

Hey GH, sorry to hear about all the shit your going through because of C. Sure you will pull it all back together when we get through all this.. 

Are you still able to keep up with your gear, training and food regimen?

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## GearHeaded

> Hey GH, sorry to hear about all the shit your going through because of C. Sure you will pull it all back together when we get through all this.. 
> 
> Are you still able to keep up with your gear, training and food regimen?



looks like I'm going to be shoveling snow for my workouts

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## charger69

> looks like I'm going to be shoveling snow for my workouts


Sunny and about 75........ and confined. LOL


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## Eduke93

Damn, it’s warm where I am in England lol jeez i even managed to tan  :Haha:

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## GearHeaded

was 14 degrees here with 40mph winds yesterday .. meanwhile a friend of mine sent me pics of the garden he is planting in his back yard in FL .
if it wasn't for my gym here , I would definitely move. I should be mowing lawn and planting my garden right now, not locked in the house with freezing cold weather

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## GearHeaded

stuck inside .. at least I got some good books to read

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## i_SLAM_cougars

> stuck inside .. at least I got some good books to read



ooh, you got the 11th edition!

Not sure what edition my e-book version is, but I know it’s dated

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## GearHeaded

> ooh, you got the 11th edition!
> 
> Not sure what edition my e-book version is, but I know it’s dated


lol , I got older editions too. I've already read totally though this one, but being stuck at home going to read it again

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## i_SLAM_cougars

> lol , I got older editions too. I've already read totally though this one, but being stuck at home going to read it again


I asked for it for Christmas, but I guess nobody remembered my coffee table steroid book lol...

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## GearHeaded

> I asked for it for Christmas, but I guess nobody remembered my coffee table steroid book lol...


I'll email you a good steroid read brother

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## i_SLAM_cougars

> I'll email you a good steroid read brother


Much appreciated!

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## GearHeaded

some interesting books I found sitting around in my home library today.. probably a good time to re read them

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## GearHeaded

my back transformation.. before and after pics. going from being a high rep and mainly cardio guy to pounding the heavy weight 

before 

afer


looks like moving some heavy ass weight works a bit

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## charger69

> my back transformation.. before and after pics. going from being a high rep and mainly cardio guy to pounding the heavy weight 
> 
> before 
> 
> afer
> 
> 
> looks like moving some heavy ass weight works a bit


And better posing. LOL


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## GearHeaded

I need to get back to bodybuilding and running my gym 

you tube is sending me music videos and images I seen in dreams .. weird

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## Charlie67

Dude, your dreams are a mess!  :Smilie:

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## balance

Thats creepy
Dreams like that your tren must be fire;o


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## i_SLAM_cougars

> I need to get back to bodybuilding and running my gym 
> 
> you tube is sending me music videos and images I seen in dreams .. weird


That is the most delightful thing I’ve seen in awhile

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## GearHeaded

better dreams now

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## GearHeaded



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## GearHeaded

my political rant .. take it or leave it

I don't care if your left wing liberal or right wing conservative .. its the wings of the same damn bird 

my religion rant
"wherever there is a dead carcass their the eagles will gather". -- Matthew 24

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## GearHeaded

I miss my big traps and over head pressing 225 for reps .. I miss my gym. come on , lets get back to it

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## i_SLAM_cougars

> I miss my big traps and over head pressing 225 for reps .. I miss my gym. come on , lets get back to it


It’s your gym, can’t you go use it if you want to?

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## GearHeaded

> It’s your gym, can’t you go use it if you want to?


should be able to .. state personally called us and told us not to allow anyone in

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## GearHeaded

this is government over reach ,, fuck them all , kill them all .. we the people should be free form tyranny

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## Proximal

> should be able to .. state personally called us and told us not to allow anyone in


OK, I understand the “logic” of not letting others in, but just you? Ain’t right.

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## GearHeaded

> this is government over reach ,, fuck them all , kill them all .. we the people should be free form tyranny


I need to clarify my statements here "kill them all" has been a reference to spiritual things for years/decades . not actually killing of people.. but the killing of systems, principalities, powers etc.. 
heck 20+ years ago the metallica album "kill them all" came out. its not about harming other people. its the systems and negative things in the system that need killed

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## i_SLAM_cougars

> I need to clarify my statements here "kill them all" has been a reference to spiritual things for years/decades . not actually killing of people.. but the killing of systems, principalities, powers etc.. 
> heck 20+ years ago the metallica album "kill them all" came out. its not about harming other people. its the systems and negative things in the system that need killed


Closer to 40 years ago now bro. That shit came out in ‘83. Crazy huh? When someone says 10 years ago I still think of the 90s

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## GearHeaded

> Closer to 40 years ago now bro. That shit came out in ‘83. Crazy huh? When someone says 10 years ago I still think of the 90s


damn your right .. life goes by so fast and don't even realize it

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## Richard Head

Damn y'all are old. Tell'em Charger

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## charger69

> Damn y'all are old. Tell'em Charger


LOL


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## charger69

You all are prehistoric here. Im the young one!!


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## i_SLAM_cougars

> You all are prehistoric here. I’m the young one!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just cause you look better than everyone doesn’t make you young

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## charger69

> Just cause you look better than everyone doesnt make you young


LMAO


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## kelkel

> You all are prehistoric here. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I resemble that remark.

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## GearHeaded

UPDATE 

miss my gym so much .. 
once I'm allowed to open back up , I'm just going to work and train moving some heavy ass weight..(probably DC style) I'm going to dirty bulk like crazy. and shoot massive amounts of gear

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## kelkel

> UPDATE 
> 
> miss my gym so much .. 
> once I'm allowed to open back up , I'm just going to work and train moving some heavy ass weight..(probably DC style) I'm going to dirty bulk like crazy. and shoot massive amounts of gear



Goals.

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## GearHeaded

time to get back to work

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## charger69

> time to get back to work


Great to hear. I hope that things bounce back quickly for you.
Im stuck here in CA where the new order has an expiration of indefinite. We were the first to start this shit and probably be the last to lift it. 


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## GearHeaded

price gouging . cost of meat is getting crazy high, yet the ranchers are having to sell it at rock bottom price .

local sprouts store, ribeye roast .. $86



rancher probably had to sell this at about 1.50 per pound

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## charger69

> price gouging . cost of meat is getting crazy high, yet the ranchers are having to sell it at rock bottom price .
> 
> local sprouts store, ribeye roast .. $86
> 
> 
> 
> rancher probably had to sell this at about 1.50 per pound


You are the mother fucker that got me going on red meat again and look what happens. LOL
Actually ours is only $8 lb. I refuse to buy it. Chicken has increased a little. I have survived on just chicken for years and will continue. 
I actually ha e a stock of ground turkey. 


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## GearHeaded

I'm going to have to just start harvesting my own meat.. got slabs of meat just walking around the neighborhood here

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## GearHeaded

> @Gearheaded, I might have asked this already but can YOU use your gym? Because if not, that would be like rubbing salt in the wound.


I've "snuck in" to my own gym a few times and got some workouts in. I parked in the back and went in the back door and kept all the lights off.
we had the State personally get ahold of us a few months back and shut us down.. so I know they are watching us specifically.
I can't afford any fines, stripping of my business licenses, or god forbid criminal charges for appearing to be open (I'm on probation as it is for some other bullshit,, so can't take any chances).

technically , being I'm the damn owner, I should be able to go in and do what I want. but I'm playing it safe I guess . I really don't trust the government and know that its corrupt and it would go out of its way to try to prosecute someone like me or shut me down somehow..

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## GearHeaded

3-4 years or so ago.. building my gym , we had about 200 members. I kept dumping money into it, buying bad ass equipment, etc.. and it got up to 800 members in a short time. was thriving for sure just 3 months ago.
overnight cause of all this bullshit , no fault of my own obviously, its now a damn ghost town with zero revenue coming in for months now.

this is absolutely ridiculous. the "cure" for corona is FAR more devastating then the virus itself

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## GearHeaded

who is ready for the "new normal".. lets all go through our ritual and prepare for the new normal  :Smilie:

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## GearHeaded

WE win btw

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## charger69

> I've "snuck in" to my own gym a few times and got some workouts in. I p..


I am reporting you!!! You could be spreading the virus to.... you, but you still could be spreading it. LOL
Having to sneak in to your own property- thats fucked up

Why dont you start online basic training for the people at home, etc.? Your a business man. Prepare to re-open and have a strategy ( you may already). 
I see a gym in VT that I have gone to has exercises to do without weights purse. 
Why not have some training going on in your parking lot at 6 apart. Aerobics or something. Hell you could get A special guest...: Obs in posing trunks doing yoga. 
LMFAO. And it fucking hurst my neck to laugh. 


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## GearHeaded

I live nearly 2 miles above sea level.. the snow finally has begun melting away.
time to work on the garden.

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## charger69

> I live nearly 2 miles above sea level.. the snow finally has begun melting away.
> time to work on the garden.


I have already harvested radishes. LOL

Invite the people from your gym for a free workout. LOL


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## GearHeaded

waiting for the sun to rise ,, it should pop over this mountain any moment now

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## GearHeaded

up at 3am .. watched the sun rise.. now I'm going to watch it set across the other mountain

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## GearHeaded

my daughter graduated high school today.. wow what a big ceremony, they have not been in school in 3 months.. simply sent 1500 students a robe and graduation certificate..
LOL .. # fuckcorona !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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## GearHeaded

whatever,, I guess she graduated today. now she as at work, working making money for her self and her family . when she is done with work, maybe we will have home made pizza and some cake and celebrate

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## charger69

> up at 3am .. watched the sun rise.. now I'm going to watch it set across the other mountain


Sun rises at 3 am where you are? LOL


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## C27H40O3

> I live nearly 2 miles above sea level.. the snow finally has begun melting away.
> time to work on the garden.


Cant you spend just a bit of this time off trying to figure out how to not post photos sideways? Every time I turn my phone to see your photos, they rotate again.

Do you post with a phone or a PC? Lets get this fixed now


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## i_SLAM_cougars

> whatever,, I guess she graduated today. now she as at work, working making money for her self and her family . when she is done with work, maybe we will have home made pizza and some cake and celebrate


Congratulations!
What’s she planning on doing next? Or holding off to see if the world goes back to normal?

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## GearHeaded

> Congratulations!
> What’s she planning on doing next? Or holding off to see if the world goes back to normal?


she is just working a job as a deli prep cook and delivery driver for Jimmy John subs right now.. she's been promoted to the advertising and marketing team . thats what she did a lot in school as well .. she was the director of Theater for several years and did all the public marketing etc.. all the artwork herself by hand. all the marketing material and advertising. and thats in a school with 1500+ students.. 
a play put on by the school theater club (again which my daughter ran) ,, would bring in 100s of people and tons of money from the community. is a big event here (bunch of rich snobs driving Teslas with nothing better to do then leave their mansions and go see a local theater play  :Wink: 

anyhow . so she is at a cross roads from going to culinary school (she is like her dad and loves to cook), or going to school with a marketing and business focus. 

personally I don't think school is needed. she can be successful just being herself. 
I told her I'd help her start her own food truck service business or catering business . . that way she can combine both her culinary skills and her marketing and business sense into one common trade. no school or college needed.

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