# MEMBERS EXPERIENCES > MEMBER'S CYCLE RESULTS >  ANAVAR Cycle (for those interested)

## BJJ

*PLEASE NOTE*

*The meaning of this thread is to inform only, since I do not condone either promote any use of AAS among the readers.

Whatever I write is for entertainment purposes only and do not take any responsability for any misuse of the information here reported.

Furthermore, this thread is to be viewed only by those who are at least 21 years of age.

Seek a professional consultation for any medical advices.*

*This thread is best viewed at a resolution of 1920x1200.*




*PLEASE READ*

*Steroids and anabolic steroids do have side effects. Do not be fooled into thinking there is a perfect steroid out there. That is not true. All steroids carry some type of side effects in one form or another. There is no such thing as a side effect free steroid. There are many side effects of using any medical treatment, including steroids. Here are some things an athlete might experience through the use of steroids:*

* Your body wants to maintain a balance of hormones, so by undertaking a steroid regimen will send a signal to your body to shut down its own natural hormonal production. The levels of inhibition vary depending on the type of hormone ingested and most often, but not always, the endogenous hormone production resumes after the athlete stops his/her steroid regimen.

 The liver can be affected with orally ingested steroids . This means that studies have shown the levels of liver enzymes to increase after ingesting oral steroids which is an indication of liver activity. While some experts say that this is a sign of possible liver damage, other studies have shown that enzyme levels return to normal when the athlete stops taking the steroids.

 Steroids can affect levels of cholesterol. Athletes who use steroids show increased levels of LDLs (the bad cholesterol) and decreased levels of HDLs (the good cholesterol). This may also explain why anabolic steroids have been linked to cardiovascular problems.

 Anabolic steroids increase the levels of estrogen in the body which can lead to female-like breast tissue in males. However, there are anti-estrogen drugs that can help reduce this risk. Likewise, females who use anabolic steroids might begin to develop male characteristics such as hirsuitism or deepening of the voice, as well as clitoris enlargement.

 Athletes who use anabolic steroids might also experience increased acne; this is often related to the type and amount of steroids used.

 One of the most commonly suspected side effects of steroids use is increased aggressiveness. This is a real but rare side effect of steroids use; in fact most studies show that this increased aggressiveness or sometimes mania is more prevalent in people who were aggressive to begin with.

 There are other effects on internal organs (caused by the types and doses of steroids as well as the effects of the exercise/training regimen that goes along with trying to bulk or cut) that are often reversed at the cessation of steroids use. These include enlarged prostate, high blood pressure, kidney problems and changes in the immune system.

 Sterility is also a possible side effect as the hormones in the body are altered during use of anabolic steroids. This can often be reversed or remedied with proper hormone treatments.
*
* Some steroids will stop the growth of people who use them before they have finished growing. This is one of the few side effects that cannot be reversed through stopping a steroid regimen.
 Always remember, effects of steroids are very serious. Users do experience bad and negative side effects, so be warned! Do your own researches.*

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## BJJ

BULKING _(23/09/2009 - 17/11/2009)_
Week *1-8 Oxandrolone* [UG] *60 mg ed* (ttl 2.940 mg) (Breakfast/Lunch)
Week *4-7 Mesterolone* [PG] *50 mg ed* (ttl 1.400 mg) (Breakfast/Dinner)
PCT _(18/11/2009 - 28/12/2009)_
Week *9-10 Clomiphene Citrate* [PG] *50/50 mg ed* (ttl 700 mg) (Breakfast)
Week *9-11 Tamoxifen Citrate* [PG] *20/20/20 mg ed* (ttl 420 mg) (Breakfast)
Week *11-12 Clenbuterol Hydrochloride* [PG] *60/60/80/80/100/100/100/100/60/60 mcg ed* (ttl 800 mcg) (Breakfast)
Week *12-13 Glutathione* [PG] *600 mg ed* (ttl 6.000 mg) (Morning)

*IUPAC:*
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=439055

*DIET:*
BMR: *1.954* Kcal
Daily Diet (*3.159* Kcal): *300* g of Protides, *55* g of Lipides, *366* g of Glucides
Protides/Glucides Relation: *0,81*
Supplements: _Multi Vitamins/Minerals, Vitamin C/Ester, EFA complex, ALA, LIV.52, CLA, ZMA, Chromium Picolinate, Acetyl L-Carnitine, Coenzyme Q10, Glutamine, BCAA, Glucosamine, Chondroitin Sulfate, Glycine, l-Arginine, Alpha-Ketoisocaproic Acid Calcium_.

*STRENGTH* (8 reps):__________________________________________Da y *56*
Squat (legs) 100 kg (220 lbs)_______________________________________*130* kg (*286* lbs) *+30%*
One Arm Dumbbell Row (back) 30 kg (66 lbs)___________________________*44* kg (*96,8* lbs) *+46,66%*
Bench Press with Dumbbells (chest) 30 kg (66 lbs) each_________________*40* kg (*88* lbs) *+33,33%*
Military Press with Dumbbells (shoulders) 24 kg (52,8 lbs) each____________*34* kg (*74,8* lbs)* +41,66%*
Dumbbells Curls (biceps - seated) 24 kg (52,8 lbs) each_________________*30* kg (*66* lbs) *+25%*
Dumbbells Curls (triceps - lying down) 18 kg (39,6 lbs) each______________*24* kg (*52,8* lbs) *+33,33%*

Strength Acquisition: *35%* estimate
_Formula: (current-previous)/previous*100 = (+) increase% or (-) decrease%_

*STATS:*__________________________________________Day *16*_____________________________Day *35*_____________________________Day *56*______________________________________Day *62* (1W PCT)
36 years old, 187 cm (6'2" ft)
Body Weight: 87,5 kg (192,5 lbs)_________________________*94,5* kg (*207,9* lbs) *+8%*_____________*98,9* kg (*217,6* lbs) *+13,02%*_________*96,5* kg (*212,3* lbs) *+10,28%*__________________*94,7* kg (*208,3* lbs) *+8,23%*
Body Fat: 12,9%______________________________________*14*% *+8,52%*_______________________*14,6*% *+13,17%*____________________*14*% *+8,52%*________________________________*12,3*% *-3,14%*
Body Water: 63,2%____________________________________*63,6*% *+0,63%*_____________________*63,8*% *+0,94%*_____________________*64%* *+1,26%*
Estimated Muscle Mass: 73,5 kg (161,7 lbs)________________*77,3* kg (*170,6* lbs) *+5,17%*__________*80,3* kg (*176,66* lbs) *+9,25%*_________*78,9* kg (*173,58* lbs) *+7,34%*__________________*79,6* kg (*175,1* lbs) *+8,30%*

Lean Body Mass Acquisition (LBM): *9,043* kg (*19,89* lbs)
New Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR): *2.053* Kcal
*Complete Cycle Log*: _http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...97#post5002497_


*BLOOD WORK, URINE, FAECES & SPERM ANALYSES:*
__________________________________________________*18*__________*36*__________*51*__________*56*__________*98* (End of PCT)_____*122* (3 Weeks ex PCT)

*BLOOD*
ERYTHROCYTES: *5,18* mil/mmc [4 - 5,5]__________________________________________________ ___*5,2*_________*5,34*
LEUCOCYTES: *7,3* mila/mmc [4 - 9]__________________________________________________ _______*8,6*_________*7,5*
- NE: *4,1* / *55,8* % [2 - 6 / 37 - 80]__________________________________________________ __________________*4,1* / *54,8*
- LY: *2,4* / *33* % [0,6 - 36 / 10 - 50]__________________________________________________ _________________*2,7* / *35,6*
- MO: *0,6* / *8,6* % [0 - 0,9 / 0 - 12]__________________________________________________ __________________*0,5* / *7,1*
- EO: *0,2* / *2,1* % [0 - 7 / 0 - 7]__________________________________________________ _____________________*0,1* / *1,8*
- BA: *0* / *0,5* % [0 - 0,2 / 0 - 2,5]__________________________________________________ ____________________*0,1* / *0,7*
HEMOGLOBIN: *14,9* gr/dl [14 - 18]__________________________________________________ ________*13,6*________*15,6*
HEMATOCRIT: *45,3* % [42 - 52]__________________________________________________ __________*44,1*________*45,5*
MCV: *87,5* femtol [82 - 98]__________________________________________________ ______________*84,8*________*85,2*
MCH: *28,8* picogr. [27 - 31]__________________________________________________ _____________*26,2*________*29,2*
MCHC: *32,9* gr/dl [32 - 36]__________________________________________________ ______________*30,8*________*34,3*
RDW: *13,5* % [11,6 - 16]__________________________________________________ ___________________________*14*
GRAN-NEUTROPHILS: *55,8* % [37 - 80]__________________________________________________ ____*60,7*________*54,8*
GRAN-EOSINOPHILS: *2,1* % [0 - 7]__________________________________________________ ________*1,9*_________*1,8*
GRAN-BASOPHILS: *0,5* % [0 - 2,5]__________________________________________________ ________*0,7*_________*0,7*
LYMPHOCYTES: *33,0* % [10 - 50]__________________________________________________ ________*28,4*________*35,6*
MONOCYTES: *8,6* % [0 - 12]__________________________________________________ _____________*8,3*_________*7,1*
PLATELETS: *163000* /mmc [150000 - 400000]________________________________________________*336000*_____*164000*
PCT: *0,12* % [0,1 - 1]__________________________________________________ ______________________________*0,12*
MPV: *7,3* fl [5 - 10]__________________________________________________ ________________________________*7,2*
PDW: *17,4* % [12 - 18]__________________________________________________ _____________________________*18,5*

*HEART, KIDNEYS, LIVER, PANCREAS & PROSTATE*
GLY***IA (basal): *90* mg/dl [70 - 110]__________________________________________________ ________________*98*
QUICK PROTHROMBIN TIME: *13,7* s_________________________________________________ ____________________*13,1*
PROTHROMBIN ACTIVITY: *69,6* % [70- 130]__________________________________________________ ___________*86*
INR: *1,18*__________________________________________________ ________________________________________*1,09*
APTT: *27,5* s_________________________________________________ ______________________________________*27,8*
FIBRINOGEN: *185* mg/dl [180 - 350]__________________________________________________ __________________*184,7*
HOMOCYSTEINE: *10* mcmoli/l [6 - 15]__________________________________________________ _________________*9,5*
MYOGLOBIN: *26* ng/ml [10 - 46]__________________________________________________ ______________________*38*
AZOTEMIA: *49* mg/dl [15 - 40]________________________*62*__________*57*_______________________*56*_________*53*_________________*52,8*
CREATININE: *1,2* mg/dl [0,8 - 1,3]_____________________*1,2*__________*1,2*______________________*1,3*_________*1,3*
HYPERURI***IA: *5,9* mg/dl [3,5 - 7,2]__________________________________________________ ________________*5,5*
CHOLESTEROL TTL: *168* mg/dl [140 - 220]______________*179*_________*205*______________________*232*________*194*
CHOLESTEROL VLDL: *33* mg/dl [20 - 40]__________________________________________________ _______________*30*
CHOLESTEROL LDL: *105* mg/dl [<150]___________________*157*_________*199*_____________________*202*_________*129*_______________*101*
CHOLESTEROL HDL: *41* mg/dl [>40]_ ___________________*13*__________*11*_______________________*13*__________*45*
INDEX RISK HDL: *4,1* [till 5]___________________________*13,76*_______*19,2*_____________________*17,8*________*4,3*
APO A1: *185* mg/dl [115 - 220]__________________________________________________ ______________________*190*
APO B: *77* mg/dl [55 - 125]__________________________________________________ __________________________*79*
RATIO B/A1 APO: *0,41* [0,35 - 1]__________________________________________________ _____________________*0,41*
TRIGLYCERIDES: *95* mg/dl [<150]__________________________________________________ _____________________*104*
GAMMA (YGT): *28* u/ltr [15 - 85]______________________*29*__________*28*_______________________*26*__________*40*
ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE: *71* u/ltr [50 - 136]__________________________________________________ ___________*72*
BILIRUBIN TTL: *1,98* mg/dl [0,2 - 1]___________________*0,83*_________*0,78*_________________________________*0,93*______________*1,54*
BILIRUBIN DIRECT: *0,22* mg/dl [0,05 - 0,3]______________*0,1*__________*0,1*__________________________________*0,1*_______________*0,53*
BILIRUBIN INDIRECT: *1,76* mg/dl [till 0,7]________________*0,73*________*0,68*_________________________________*0,83*______________*1,01*
TRANSAMINASE GOT/AST: *21* u/ltr [15 - 37]_____________*55*__________*50*_______________________*46*_________*28*________________*58*
TRANSAMINASE GPT/ALT: *41* u/ltr [30 - 65]_____________*86*__________*66*_______________________*95*__________*71*________________*77*
FERRITIN: *124,5* ng/ml [24 - 336]__________________________________________________ ____________________*124*
LIPASE: *236* u/ltr [114 - 284]__________________________________________________ ________________________*298*______________*216*
AMYLASE: *62* u/ltr [25 - 115]_________________________*55*__________*63*_______________________*64*__________*75*_______________*76*
LDH: *160* u/ltr [100 - 190]__________________________________________________ __________________________*155*
CPK MB: *200* u/ltr [35 - 232]__________________________________________________ ________________________*230*
CK NAK: *150* u/l [till 167]__________________________________________________ ___________________________*165*
PROTIDES TTL: *7,4* gr/dl [6,4 - 8,2]__________________________________________________ _______*7,8*_________*7,7*
ALBUMIN: *59,1* % [51 - 63,3]__________________________________________________ ____________*60,3*________*63,1*
ALFA 1: *2,9* % [2,2 - 4,3]__________________________________________________ _______________*2,4*_________*2,3*
ALFA 2: *10,1* % [9,5 - 14]__________________________________________________ ______________*12,6*________*8,5*
BETA: *9,6* % [10 - 14,5]__________________________________________________ _______________*11,3*_________*9,3*
GAMMA: *18,3* % [12 - 20]__________________________________________________ _______________*13,4*________*16,8*
A/G RATIO: *1,44* [1 - 1,7]__________________________________________________ _______________*1,52*________*1,71*
PSA: *0,64* ng/ml [till 4]__________________________________________________ _________________*0,39*_________*0,58*
PSA FREE: *0,22*__________________________________________________ ____________________________________*0,24*
PSA FREE/TTL: *0,40* [>0,15]__________________________________________________ _________________________*0,41*
PAP: *4,8* u/ltr [<=4,7]_ __________________________________________________ _____________________________*5,1*
IGG: *1447* mg/dl [681 - 1648]__________________________________________________ ________________________*1455*
IGA: *304* mg/dl [87 - 474]__________________________________________________ ___________________________*321*
IGD: *50* u/ml [till 100]__________________________________________________ _______________________________*57*
IGM: *99* mg/dl [48 - 312]__________________________________________________ ____________________________*97*
IGE (prist): *37,47* iu/ml [1,31 - 165,3]__________________________________________________ _________________*39,77*

*INFECTIVITY & ALLERGOLOGY*
HIV-Ab (1+2): *0,16 non-react* u/cutoff [<0,9]__________________________________________________ __________*0,18 non-react*
HCV-Ab: *0,13 non-react* u/cutoff [<0,9]__________________________________________________ _______________*0,12 non-react*
HBS-Ag: *0,37 non-react* u/cutoff [<0,9]__________________________________________________ _______________*0,39 non-react*
HAV-Ab (IgT): *>85 react* miu/ml [<35]__________________________________________________ _________________*>85 react*
HAV-Ab (IgM): *0,08 non-react* u/cutoff [<0,9]__________________________________________________ __________*0,07 non-react*
TAS: *110* ui/ml [0 - 166]__________________________________________________ ____________________________*111*
VDRL: *negative* [negative]__________________________________________________ ___________________________*negative*
CRP: *2* mg/dl [till 5]__________________________________________________ _________________________________*2,1*
REUMA TEST: *<20* iu/ml [<20]__________________________________________________ ________________________*<20*
ESR: *5* mm/h [till 15]__________________________________________________ ________________________________*5*
LYSOZYME: *7* picog/ml [4 - 13]__________________________________________________ _______________________*7*
ACE: *9* mcg/l [6 - 12]__________________________________________________ _______________________________*8,5*
RAST Egg: *0,1* [<0,3]
RAST Yolk: *0,1* [<0,3]
RAST Crayfish: *0,1* [<0,3]
RAST Yeast: *0,1* [<0,3]
RAST Pork: *0,1* [<0,3]
RAST Fish Mix: *0,1* [<0,3]
RAST Olea Europaea Pollen: *0,1* [<0,3]

*VITAMINS & ELECTROLYTES*
VITAMIN A: *779,2* mcg/l [300 - 650]__________________________________________________ _________________*692,1*
VITAMIN E: *12,6* mg/ltr [5 - 20]__________________________________________________ ______________________*100*
VITAMIN C: *0,9* mg/ml [0,5 - 1,5]__________________________________________________ ____________________*1,2*
VITAMIN B12: *587* pg/ml [179 - 1162]__________________________________________________ _________________*787*
VITAMIN D3: *60* ng/ml [10 - 45]__________________________________________________ _____________________*40*
VITAMIN H: *82* ng/ml [70 - 100]__________________________________________________ _____________________*90*
VITAMIN K: *22* mcg/ml [15 - 30]__________________________________________________ _____________________*26*
VITAMIN PP: *0,7* mg/ml [0,5 - 0,8]__________________________________________________ ___________________*0,7*
SODIUM: *142* meq/l [136 - 145]__________________________________________________ ______________________*139*
POTASSIUM: *4,0* meq/l [3,5 - 5,1]__________________________________________________ ____________________*4,4*
CALCIUM: *9,0* mg/dl [8,5 - 10,1]__________________________________________________ ______________________*9,1*
MAGNESIUM: *2,0* mg/dl [1,8 - 2,4]__________________________________________________ ____________________*2,2*
PHOSPHORUS: *3,7* mg/dl [2,7 - 4,5]__________________________________________________ ___________________*4,3*
IRON: *148* mcg/dl [35 - 150]__________________________________________________ _________________________*96*
ZINC: *103* mcg/dl [80 - 125]__________________________________________________ _________________________*132*
CHLORINE: *103* meq/l [98 - 107]__________________________________________________ ______________________*99*
COPPER: *88* ku/l [76 - 153]__________________________________________________ __________________________*88*

*HORMONAL*
GASTRIN: *31* pg/ml [28 - 125]__________________________________________________ _______________________*33*
MELATONIN: *47* pg/ml [20 - 85]__________________________________________________ ______________________*50*
C-PEPTIDE: *1,2* ng/ml [0,78 – 1,89]__________________________________________________ ___________________*1,25*
INSULIN : *3,34* micru/ml [1,9 - 23]______________________*3,6*_________*3,04*_________________________________*2,39*
GLUCAGON: *55* pg/ml [40 - 130]__________________________________________________ _____________________*55*
ACTH: *20* pg/dl [till 50]__________________________________________________ _____________________________*21*
CORTISOL: *12,53* mg/dl [8,7 - 22,4]__________________________________________________ ______*13,64*_______*18,7*
FT3: *3,48* pg/ml [2,2 - 4,7]__________________________________________________ ______________*4,82*_______*3,13*
FT4: *1,26* ng/dl [0,8 - 2]__________________________________________________ ________________*1,29*_______*1,16*
MSH: *9,7* pmol/l [7,9 - 14,4]__________________________________________________ _________________________*9,8*
HTG: *7,65* ng/ml [0 - 35]______ __________________________________________________ _____________________*6,61*
TBG: *18* mcg/ml [15 - 32]__________________________________________________ ___________________________*18,6*
TSH: *2,92* micru/ml [0,34 - 5,6]__________________________________________________ __________*3,88*________*3,92*
FSH: *4,16* miu/ml [1,27 - 19,26]_______________________*2,09*________*2,56*_____________________*1,42*________*3,9*
LH: *3,80* miu/ml [1,24 - 8,62]_________________________*2,19*________*2,58*_____________________*2,61*________*4,84*
PREGNENOLONE: *155* ng/ml [10 - 230]__________________________________________________ ________________*160*
ANDROSTENEDIONE: *1,77* ng/ml [0,3 - 3,1]__________________________________________________ ____________*1,79*
ALDOSTERONE: *180* pg/ml [10 - 160]__________________________________________________ _________________*184*
DHEA: *7,3* ng/ml [2,5 - 9,5]__________________________________________________ _________________________*6,2*
DHEAS: *191* mcg/dl [106 - 464]_______________________*209*_________*209,6*________________________________*221,6*
DHT: *71* ng/ml [31 - 146]__________________________________________________ ___________________________*70*
TESTOSTERONE TTL: *3,86* ng/ml [1,75 - 7,81]___________*0,72*________*0,61*_________________________________*6,29*
TESTOSTERONE FREE: *11,7* pg/ml [8 - 47]______________*5,2*_________*4,8*_______________________*9,6*_________*13,5*
SHBG: *38* pg/ml [13 - 71]____________________________*10*__________*<0,1*_________________________________*36*
ESTRONE: *47* pg/ml [40 - 60]__________________________________________________ ________________________*45*
ESTRADIOL 17-BETA: *36* pg/ml [<20 - 47]__________________________________________________ __*9*__________*30*
ESTRIOL: *5,7* pg/ml [4,7 - 7,1]__________________________________________________ _______________________*5,5*
PROGESTERONE: *0,93* ng/ml [0,14 - 2,06]__________________________________________________ _____________*0,87*
PRL: *9,88* ng/ml [2,64 - 13,13]__________________________________________________ ___________*12,78*______*13,05*
IGF-1: *190* ng/ml [96 - 424]__________________________*184*_________*163*__________________________________*392*
HGH: *0,2* ng/ml [0 - 10]______ ______________________*<0,1*________*<0,1*__________________________________*0,3*

*URINE*
COLOUR: *straw-coloured*____________________________*straw-coloured*____________________________________*straw-coloured*
APPEARANCE: *lightly opalescent* [limpid]_______________*lightly opalescent*__________________________________*limpid*
PH REACTION: *5,5* [5 - 6,5]___________________________*6*________________________________________________*5,5*
SPECIFIC WEIGHT: *1020* [1015 - 1028]_________________*1016*_____________________________________________*1018*
PROTEINS: *none* mg/dl [0 - 10]________________________*none*_____________________________________________*none*
HEMOGLOBIN: *none* [none]___________________________*present +*_________________________________________*none*
GLUCOSE: *none* gr/litre [0 - 0,2]_______________________*none*_____________________________________________*none*
KETONE BODIES: *none* [none]_________________________*none*_____________________________________________*none*
UROBILINOGEN: *none* mg/dl [0 - 0,2]___________________*none*_____________________________________________*none*
BILIARY PIGMENTS: *none* [none]______________________*none*_____________________________________________*none*
NITRITE: *none* [none]_______________________________*none*_____________________________________________*none*

*FAECES*
SHAPE: *solid* [homogeneous]__________________________________________________ ________________________*caprina*
CONSISTENCY: *compost* [poltacea]__________________________________________________ __________________*solid*
COLOUR:* brown* [brown]__________________________________________________ ____________________________*brown*
ODOUR: *sui generis* [sui generis]__________________________________________________ _____________________*sui generis*
MUCUS: *absent* [absent]__________________________________________________ ___________________________*absent*
BLOOD: *absent* [absent]__________________________________________________ ____________________________*absent*
PH REACTION: *7*__________________________________________________ ___________________________________*7,4*
PARASITOLOGICAL: *negative* [negative]__________________________________________________ _______________*negative*
SALMONELLA: *negative* [negative]__________________________________________________ ___________________*negative*
HELICOBACTER PYLORI: *negative* [negative]__________________________________________________ ___________*negative*
GIARDIASIS: *negative* [negative]__________________________________________________ ____________________*negative*

*SPERM*
VOLUME: *2,8* ml [>=2]__ __________________________________________________ ____*2,5*______________________________________*2,6*
PH: *8,1* [7,2 - 8]__________________________________________________ __________*7,2*_______________________________________*7,3*
APPEARANCE: *own*__________________________________________________ _________*own*______________________________________*own*
VISCOSITY: *increased +* [within limits]__________________________________________*within limits*_______________________________*within limits*
FLUIDIFICATION 45': *finely irregular* [physiologic]_________________________________*physiologic*________________________________*physiologic*
SPERMATOZOON CONCENTRATION: *89.000.000* /ml [>=20.000.000]_ _________________*42.000.000*________________________________*85.000.000*
EJACULATE SPERMATOZOON COUNT: *249.200.000* [>=40.000.000] __________________*105.000.000*_______________________________*228.000.000*
2ND HOUR MOTILITY: *60* % [>=50]______________________________________________*45*________________________________________*57*
TYPICAL MORPHOLOGIC SPERMATOZOON: *30* % [>=35]_____________________________*28*________________________________________*35*
ATYPICAL MORPHOLOGIC SPERMATOZOON: *70* %__________________________________*72*________________________________________*71*
LEUCOCYTE: *300.000* /ml [<=1.000.000]_________________________________________*500.000*___________________________________*335.000*
ERYTHROCYTE: *absent* [absent/rare]____________________________________________*absent*____________________________________*absent*
GERMINAL CELLS: *rare* [absent/rare]____________________________________________*present*___________________________________*absent*
EPITHELIAL CELLS: *rare* [absent/rare]___________________________________________*absent*____________________________________*absent*
SPERMAGGLUTINATION ZONES: *rare* [absent/rare]_________________________________*absent*____________________________________*absent*




[CENTER]   
by _"Whole Body Hologic QDR-4500W DXA Fan-Beam Scanner"_

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## BJJ

*Day1*
60 oxa - 3.436 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day2*
60 oxa - 3.550 Kcal - (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Bursts of Heat

*Day3*
60 oxa - 3.199 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness

*Day4*
60 oxa - 3.340 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, 4 mg Loperamide

*Day5*
60 oxa - 2.799 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, Yellow Skin (left biceps & shoulder), 4 mg Loperamide, 25.000 iu Neomycin

*Day6*
60 oxa - 3.646 Kcal - (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Tiredness, Yellow Skin, 1 gr Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day7*
60 oxa - 3.912 Kcal - (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Yellow Skin, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.411

1ST WEEK NOTES
The first week was very hard to go through. No will to eat at all and lots of problem to understand if the diarrhea was due from oxandrolone or LIV.52; also I got a persistent sore throat.
The strength increase was considerable, especially on legs and shoulders.
As daily supplements throughout the cycle: (Multi Vitamins/Minerals 1 tb, Vitamin C/Ester 3 gr, EFA complex 6 gr, ALA 600 mg, LIV.52 2 tabs, CLA 4 gr, ZMA, Tribulus Terrestris 3 gr, Chromium Picolinate 400 mcg, Acetyl L-Carnitine 600 mg, Coenzyme Q10, Glutamine 35 gr, BCAA 20 gr, MT Gakic Hardcore 8 tbs (only before w/o), UN Animal Flex 1 pckt.

----------


## D7M

I'll see if I can get this moved to the member cycle results forum for you, BJJ.

----------


## terraj

Sup BJJ,

Are these...

Strength:
Squat (legs) 110 kg (242 lbs)
Lat Machine (back) 90 kg (198 lbs)
Bench Press (chest) 90 kg (198 lbs)
Seated Military Press (shoulders) 60 kg (132 lbs)
1 Dumbbell (biceps) 28 kg (61 lbs)
1 Dumbbell (triceps) 22 kg (48 lbs)

your one rep max lifts?

also, are you still training BJJ while running the cycle?

----------


## BJJ

> Sup BJJ,
> 
> Are these...
> 
> Strength:
> Squat (legs) 110 kg (242 lbs)
> Lat Machine (back) 90 kg (198 lbs)
> Bench Press (chest) 90 kg (198 lbs)
> Seated Military Press (shoulders) 60 kg (132 lbs)
> ...


I forgot to specify it, those are 3 reps each.
yes, i keep training while running this cycle. why asking?

----------


## terraj

As you know, I think Var is well suited to fighters. However, most fighters are looking for strength from the Var cycle and not size. You are after size to go up a weight class right?
I would have preferred you have a better strength base prior to a cycle...

Still doing BJJ= extra stress on the soft tissue. I would only weight lift and cardio while on the cycle. This will help you get that pounds you want with lesser chance of injury.
Keep your rep range 8-12, you want the size and this is what will give it to you. You will gain strength and maybe fast from the Var, if you don't have experience of lifting heavy you will be prime for injury...keep mid range for reps and keep form. 

Hope this make sense to you. Also this just my opinion based my my experience, take it or leave it...

Peace

terraj

----------


## BJJ

> As you know, I think Var is well suited to fighters. *yes, that's why i chose it* However, most fighters are looking for strength from the Var cycle and not size. *i would like to have a bit of both of them* You are after size to go up a weight class right?
> I would have preferred you have a better strength base prior to a cycle...
> *i see your point but the strength i have is more than enough to permit me to finalize people with violet/brown belts and 250lbs of body weight** (1)*
> 
> Still doing BJJ= extra stress on the soft tissue. I would only weight lift and cardio while on the cycle. This will help you get that pounds you want with lesser chance of injury. *i see you point*
> Keep your rep range 8-12, you want the size and this is what will give it to you. You will gain strength and maybe fast from the Var, if you don't have experience of lifting heavy you will be prime for injury...keep mid range for reps and keep form. 
> 
> Hope this make sense to you. Also this just my opinion based my my experience, take it or leave it... *thanks for your suggestions*
> 
> ...


*(1)*
BJJ is about technique, strength can be of help but it is not really needed during a fight, unless you have a mma match. I know my lifting power is not "amazing" compared to other guys with similar genetics appearance but I always tried to focus on flexibility and strength not only the second one. So, due also to the martial art I have chosen, I trained constantly with parallel bars, parallelepiped, the rings, bars... and can do projections with the body which cannot be done by those who are able to lift 20% more than I do.
See what I mean?

----------


## jason bourne

BJJ i feel ya i also have trained bjj for 8 years and understand were your coming from but i got a question you stated above 191lbs what weight are you trying to attain from var? and also good luck i will be subscribed to this thread following it closely

----------


## BJJ

> BJJ i feel ya i also have trained bjj for 8 years and understand were your coming from but i got a question you stated above 191lbs what weight are you trying to attain from var? and also good luck i will be subscribed to this thread following it closely


Thanks.
Well actually I wanted to reach 200lbs and then stop even because I was already at that weight naturally a few years ago (but with 15%bf) and fighting was still ok, even tough I was a little slower.
So, surely I do not want to go over 200 and with anavar only and proviron at the end, I really should not have this problem.

----------


## marcus300

I will keep an eye on your progress, keep us updated.

----------


## BJJ

> I will keep an eye on your progress, keep us updated.


thank you marcus, i appreciate it.

----------


## terraj

Cool bro, 

I think you missed my point or I did not state clearly enough.
I did do sub training for over 10 years along with lifting and juice.....and made my fair share of mistakes.
Once again, what I said just my opinion in terms of your level, targets and saftey.



Good luck bro

terraj

----------


## BJJ

> Cool bro, 
> 
> I think you missed my point or I did not state clearly enough.
> I did do sub training for over 10 years along with lifting and juice.....and made my fair share of mistakes.
> Once again, what I said just my opinion in terms of your level, targets and saftey.
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck bro
> ...


I understand better now what you have meant.
I thank you very much for your advices and care.

What was your sub training about?

----------


## terraj

Shoot wrestling and jujitsu in Oz then Japan, from 21 years of age to 30. Myself... not that good...however,I trained with some greats.
For years I jumped between bodybuilding and fighting. In hindsight...I would say the best training and skill level I ever had was when I was away from the juice ...my technique was better when I was lighter and I got less injuries.
But I love lifting weights!

----------


## BJJ

> Shoot wrestling and jujitsu in Oz then Japan, from 21 years of age to 30. Myself... not that good...however,I trained with some greats.
> For years I jumped between bodybuilding and fighting. In hindsight...I would say the best training and skill level I ever had was when I was away from the juice ...my technique was better when I was lighter and I got less injuries.
> But I love lifting weights!


Thanks for sharing with me this info about your life.
Interesting to read that the best time you had was "_when I was away from the juice ...my technique was better when I was lighter and I got less injuries._"
Surely, I shall keep that in mind.
Also, what belt color did you accomplish?

----------


## terraj

Lol...don't get me started on belts man. As you may know, or will find..belts don't mean much. It's about who with and how hard you trained...IMO.
Myself, Black in JJ, Blue in Akido, Orange in Karate. BTW...Karate was from early teenage years, but very few gradings. Shoot wrestling (has no belts) . Also trained in Thai boxing in Japan with a school of comp fighters( they f*cking killed me. Fit and fast). 
But my heart has been with sub fighting from the first time I was subbed ...as you say man...it's all technique

----------


## BJJ

Agree with you, belts mean only your technique reached level but this does not mean more than that. Others variables contribute to make a fighter, a good one.

----------


## elpropiotorvic

I think u can do it if u stop training Bjj or if u train less.. U are prob just looking to fight at the same weight class with less bf.. I can't recall cause u edited it but Imo going up on weight class requires u to not trainso hard... I personally have gotten injured by doing so cause u gotta learn how to controlethe body on the other hand u have already been at that weight so not gonnA b too hard ... I wish u success u will be a mean 205

----------


## BJJ

thanks but i don't want to change my weight class simply because i am done with bjj.
i just want to keep my flexibility and, while improving my strength, get a little bigger.
that's it.

----------


## lovbyts

You guys make me jealous. You are doing all the stuff I wanted to do in my youth. 
46 (almost 47) isnt that old but with my injuries it makes it near impossible to do most of those things so Im sticking to weight training but not for strength; size and looks.

IF I can get past the injuries/pain I still want to get into some martial arts.

Nice write up BJJ and it will be interesting to see where it goes. Good luck.

----------


## BJJ

> You guys make me jealous. You are doing all the stuff I wanted to do in my youth. 
> 46 (almost 47) isnt that old but with my injuries it makes it near impossible to do most of those things so Im sticking to weight training but not for strength; size and looks.
> 
> IF I can get past the injuries/pain I still want to get into some martial arts.
> 
> Nice write up BJJ and it will be interesting to see where it goes. Good luck.


Thank you, I am also interested to see the final results, even though I have no idea what to expect.

What kind of injuries have you gotten?
If they are not so severe, regarding your wishes, I would recommend you either bjj or grappling (without gi).
I believe it is the most effective art to learn and also the less dangerous to play with, especially if you are over 40. IMO.
I train since 20 years almost and never saw anyone injured seriously. Lastly, joined our party a 55 years old man...
and also remember Helio Gracie was still a lion around 85yo!

----------


## lovbyts

2 back surgeries due to 3 herniated/ruptured disks. Doc wants to do a 3rd surgery to fuse the bottom 2 disks. 

Torn rotator cuff with scare tissue and arthritis they also want to do surgery on.

I seem to find ways to injure myself all the time on my quads, jet ski (see last weeks thread) and skiing lol

I havent let them stop me yet but the definatly slow me down.

----------


## BJJ

I am very sorry to hear that man.
I wish you a proper, solid and fast recovery.
Good Luck

----------


## lovbyts

> I am very sorry to hear that man.
> I wish you a proper, solid and fast recovery.
> Good Luck


Thanks but there is nothing fast about it. The back has been bad and getting worse for 25 years and the shoulder has been about 7.

Hopefully what I am doing now will relieve some of the pain or maybe even fix the problems without surgery.

Good luck again with the cycle.

----------


## arch

can you take some before pictures and more as you progress i have also been doing bjj for a 8 years

----------


## BJJ

> can you take some before pictures and more as you progress i have also been doing bjj for a 8 years


I have just one from "before" but it is a good one.
Once the cycle is over I will surely get a new BMC and related pics.

----------


## .EA.

> As you know, I think Var is well suited to fighters. However, most fighters are looking for strength from the Var cycle and not size. You are after size to go up a weight class right?
> I would have preferred you have a better strength base prior to a cycle...
> 
> Still doing BJJ= extra stress on the soft tissue. I would only weight lift and cardio while on the cycle. This will help you get that pounds you want with lesser chance of injury.
> *Keep your rep range 8-12*, you want the size and this is what will give it to you. You will gain strength and maybe fast from the Var, if you don't have experience of lifting heavy you will be prime for injury...keep mid range for reps and keep form. 
> 
> Hope this make sense to you. Also this just my opinion based my my experience, take it or leave it...
> 
> Peace
> ...


That's actually incorrect. The size you see is the buildup of 'fast twitch' muscles rather than the 'slow twitch' muscles. For size you generally will want to keep your reps at the 6-8 range.

----------


## kaigab

Did you take a picutre before starting the cycle (it would be nice to evaluate results in unbiased way).

Also, how is your diet (carb/pro/fat)?

----------


## BJJ

.....

----------


## BJJ

> Did you take a picutre before starting the cycle (it would be nice to evaluate results in unbiased way).
> 
> Also, how is your diet (carb/pro/fat)?


bump

----------


## diamond

> August 2009, when I was 191 lbs and 12%bf.
> Data taken at the hospital via BMC/BMI.


wow....!!

----------


## BJJ

> wow....!!


thank you

----------


## gymnerd

> Lol...don't get me started on belts man. As you may know, or will find..*belts don't mean much*. It's about who with and how hard you trained...IMO.
> Myself, Black in JJ, Blue in Akido, Orange in Karate. BTW...Karate was from early teenage years, but very few gradings. Shoot wrestling (has no belts) . Also trained in Thai boxing in Japan with a school of comp fighters( they f*cking killed me. Fit and fast). 
> But my heart has been with sub fighting from the first time I was subbed ...as you say man...it's all technique


Like Bruce Lee used to say belts are only good to hold up your pants LOL.

----------


## Trying to bench 200

Hi BJJ. I have a question. I want to start a 12 week cycle of Avanar. Do you think it will buff me up? I hope so!

----------


## BJJ

> Hi BJJ. I have a question. I want to start a 12 week cycle of Avanar. Do you think it will buff me up? I hope so!


I was serious when replied to your thread, I don't play with health and you should be mature enough to thank a person who gives you a "healthy" advice.

So, under these circumstances, I have no idea what "to buff something up" means, even because I cannot find the meaning in any dictionary.
In any case I believe your are sarcastic while I think you should just study the topics you are interested in.

If you have not noticed it, this thread has a meaning.

So, please bump and read it.

----------


## BJJ

> Hi BJJ. I have a question. I want to start a 12 week cycle of Avanar. Do you think it will buff me up? I hope so!


In the case you were serious, I can tell you I am doing my first experience and I am not in the position to help you out with aas yet.
Though, 12 weeks of an oral aas are too long.
Be aware I came to my cycle after several endo meetings, educating on this web forum, asking directly to some guys I thought reliable... it took some time.

I can help you with work-out physiology movements and related nutrition, so far.

Sorry and Good Luck.

----------


## subzero

Do you have an appetite lose like some people say when on anavar ?

----------


## BJJ

> Do you have an appetite lose like some people say when on anavar?


I am very fussy on my reports. Everything, regarding the first week has been already written.

In any case yes, severe loss of appetite till yesterday, the 10th days.
Today it is the opposite, I want to eat like an animal!

----------


## gymnerd

Just cuious are you running HG var or UGL?

----------


## terraj

> That's actually incorrect. The size you see is the buildup of 'fast twitch' muscles rather than the 'slow twitch' muscles. For size you generally will want to keep your reps at the 6-8 range.


Maybe I am playing to safe, however ....my concern is for someone that has not lifting heavy, who will more then likely be gaining strength fast and in this case I would say keep your reps in the mid range 8-12. This is my opinion, based on my mistakes on a path much like the OP's.

Peace

terraj

----------


## gymnerd

> Maybe I am playing to safe, however ....my concern is for someone that has not lifting heavy, who will more then likely be gaining strength fast and in this case I would say keep your reps in the mid range 8-12. This is my opinion, bad on my mistakes on a path much like the OP's.
> 
> Peace
> 
> terraj



I personaly agree with you its a good way to avoid injury and still train till failure if you train that way.

----------


## BJJ

> Just cuious are you running HG var or UGL?


That is a debatable question since some vets told me HG while some others UGL.
The web site of the company states HG but "to write is easy".

----------


## BJJ

> As you know, I think Var is well suited to fighters. However, most fighters are looking for strength from the Var cycle and not size. You are after size to go up a weight class right?
> I would have preferred you have a better strength base prior to a cycle...
> 
> Still doing BJJ= extra stress on the soft tissue. I would only weight lift and cardio while on the cycle. This will help you get that pounds you want with lesser chance of injury.
> Keep your rep range 8-12, you want the size and this is what will give it to you. You will gain strength and maybe fast from the Var, if you don't have experience of lifting heavy you will be prime for injury...keep mid range for reps and keep form. 
> 
> Hope this make sense to you. Also this just my opinion based my my experience, take it or leave it...
> 
> Peace
> ...





> Maybe I am playing to safe, however ....my concern is for someone that has not lifting heavy, who will more then likely be gaining strength fast and in this case I would say keep your reps in the mid range 8-12. This is my opinion, bad on my mistakes on a path much like the OP's.
> 
> Peace
> 
> terraj


I perfectly understood what you wanted to mean, and your advice was a very intelligent one.

In fact:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=403436

----------


## thai-lan

> Cycle:[/B]
> BULKING
> Week	1-8 Oxandrolone 60 mg ed (Ttl 3.360 mg) (Breakfast/Lunch)
> Week	6-8 Mesterolone 25 mg ed (Ttl 525 mg) (Breakfast)
> PCT
> Week	9-10 Clomiphene 50 mg ed (Ttl 700 mg) (Breakfast)


alright BJ Joe , u claimed that uve been up to 200lbs all natural , why bother running another cycle just to get up to 200??

var has 8 hours of half life so ur meant to split it up 4doses if u want it to be in your blood stream at all times 

i believe even tho var is mild, ur meant to run a better pct than CLOMID only...

----------


## BJJ

> alright BJ Joe *?*, u claimed that uve been up to 200lbs all natural , why bother running another cycle just to get up to 200?? *because i want to get to 200 with less than 15% bf i used to have. i could do that too naturally but i have no time to dedicate so deeply.*
> 
> var has 8 hours of half life so ur meant to split it up 4doses if u want it to be in your blood stream at all times *i don't want that, otherwise i would have run a long ester*
> 
> i believe even tho var is mild, ur meant to run a better pct than CLOMID only... *since at night my sytem is "clean", i think 2w of clomid are more than enough.*


bold

----------


## thai-lan

you would have ran a longer ester of ANAVAR ??
so your system is clean at night does that mean 2w of clomid is enough for pct??

u obviously dont know anything , i bet one of those kids will read your posts and try to do their pct 2w just like you and they will end up having the worse sides ever...

----------


## BJJ

> you would have ran a longer ester of ANAVAR ?? *Did I write oxandrolone (anavar)? I do not recall having written that... since it cannot be a "longer ester". I meant a long ester like testosterone.*
> so your system is clean at night does that mean 2w of clomid is enough for pct?? *Are you a doctor to quote that? Are you an endocrinologist?... I started to get informed and found out this thread: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=94756 , I took out the info I needed and started to ask around... then finally, I went to see my endo who advised me the cycle I am running right now. And yes, since I am going to get a new blood analyses one week from the end of my bulking period, then and only then, I might be advised to change the pct by a doctor.*
> 
> u obviously dont know anything *He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches. - Bernard Shaw -*, i bet one of those kids will read your posts and try to do their pct 2w just like you and they will end up having the worse sides ever... *This thread was made to help and the fact I am followed by an endocrinologist, should be taken as example by the newbies.*


I am not here to jeopardize anything or no-one.
Can you say the same? since you just criticized me, told me I know nothing but never gave me a suggestion...

----------


## thai-lan

LOL ru bulking with ANAVAR ???? i hope no newbie will follow your idiotic ideas, such as 2weeks of CLOMID only PCT

----------


## BJJ

> LOL ru bulking with ANAVAR???? i hope no newbie will follow your idiotic ideas, such as 2weeks of CLOMID only PCT


I used the word "bulking" to identify a period, which differs from the following one, pct.

You are as useful as a fridge in the south pole.
Stop bothering and look for another thread.

----------


## thai-lan

i can look at any thread that i want and i can post on any thread that i want.. if u dont like my opinions then u could just use the block option  :Wink:  .

----------


## Big

~sigh~ edit that

----------


## ythrashin

> i believe even tho var is mild, ur meant to run a better pct than CLOMID only... *since at night my sytem is "clean", i think 2w of clomid are more than enough*.


At night your system is hardly "clean". Say you take your 30mg var at lunch 12pm...and the "Half-life" is 9 hours. At bout 9 pm you'll have roughly 15-20mg (maybe a bit more cause of your morning dose though)still active in your body. Then at 6am the next morning you'd still have 7-10mg active in your body...

----------


## ythrashin

> i can look at any thread that i want and i can post on any thread that i want.. if u dont like my opinions then u could just use the block option  .


I dont think BJJ likes being wrong.... Prepare to be BLOCKED!! :0ae86hump: 
Its ok I still like you BJJ despite all the insults!!

----------


## BJJ

[QUOTE=ythrashin;4894373]At night your system is hardly "clean". Say you take your 30mg var at lunch 12pm...and the "Half-life" is 9 hours. At bout 9 pm you'll have roughly 15-20mg (maybe a bit more cause of your morning dose though)still active in your body. Then at 6am the next morning you'd still have 7-10mg active in your body... *system clean means to me with less mgs in my blood stream at night. there is a specific reason for that, in my case.*




Summing up all of your posts, you are basically saying that you rely mostly on other's cycles because worked for the majority of the people in a way, so it should work also for you the same.
Your approach may fail since the fact that a cycle worked for 100 people in way, it does not mean it will for you the same.

Everyone's genetics is different so it differs the way our organism responds to the same drug, although we are all human beings.

My approach is instead individual systematic, taking into account my past medical records as well as the present ones plus a bunch of information related to the average of medical implications in using aas, referred by others.
I am constantly monitoring any changes and taking blood analyses every two weeks in order to lead the cycle in the proper direction by checking out the hormonal response I am receiving as the cycle goes forward.

Again, before saying my cycle is wrong, before saying my endo is not useful, before saying... all the rest, document yourself on the reasons why a person is acting in such a way, then you may express your ideas without being bad-mannered.

Regarding my endocrinologist, he is 57 years old and being a medical officer since he graduated. He also did two cycles in his life and working out since 25 years.
So, how comes your arrogance, rudeness, prosopopoeia, saying "he is not useful" or "***ck you endo".
What kind of person are you, what kind of people hang around here, since you are not the only one, unfortunately?
You lack respect toward a person who you do not know and surely know much more than you do regarding medicine.

Then, differently from you I do not need to "appear" who I am not and when writing or speaking I use my knowledge.
If not, I refer to the articles I took the information directly from.
Your explanation, totally unneeded to me, I already found it on this board:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=309685

The same article where you "copied & pasted".

----------


## BJJ

> ...despite all the insults!! *??????????*


.....

----------


## ythrashin

> Summing up all of your posts, you are basically saying that you rely mostly on other's cycles because worked for the majority of the people in a way, so it should work also for you the same.
> Your approach may fail since the fact that a cycle worked for 100 people in way, it does not mean it will for you the same.
> 
> Everyone's genetics is different so it differs the way our organism responds to the same drug, although we are all human beings.
> 
> My approach is instead individual systematic, taking into account my past medical records as well as the present ones plus a bunch of information related to the average of medical implications in using aas, referred by others.
> I am constantly monitoring any changes and taking blood analyses every two weeks in order to lead the cycle in the proper direction by checking out the hormonal response I am receiving as the cycle goes forward.
> 
> Again, before saying my cycle is wrong, before saying my endo is not useful, before saying... all the rest, document yourself on the reasons why a person is acting in such a way, then you may express your ideas without being bad-mannered.
> ...


Ok... and do you still think you are "clean"? That was what I was trying to show you that your logic was wrong once again.... Yet you respond with this junk. You are a lost cause.

----------


## chuckt12345

why all the bashing,, let him do his cycle and post his results

----------


## ythrashin

> why all the bashing,, let him do his cycle and post his results


Thats fine.. guy just gets extremely sensitive when you point out flaws in his logic, research and try to tell him there may be a better way to do things. He denies simple logic and its frustrating. He just says his endo said it's ok...whatever. :0cig:

----------


## BJJ

> Thats fine.. guy just gets extremely sensitive when you point out flaws in his logic, research and try to tell him there may be a better way to do things. *I think no-one here needs behaviourism from you* He denies simple logic and its frustrating *I deny those who are not able to express their opinion without destroying others'*. He just says his endo said it's ok... whatever. *Why are you talking now to other people on this forum? Do you know how it is named this kind of behaviour in psychology? Well, I won't go any further...*


*I rely and always will on the ability of one's man to use his brain.*

My endo just said, and I gave him my hand, let's try in this way because of... and see how your body responds, we might still want to change in progress by checking on every two weeks basis your blood. To me this an intelligent way of acting.

You should have simply replied with a sentence like "I apologize".
You showed, once more, you and humbleness took different paths.

----------


## BJJ

> Ok... and do you still think you are "clean"? That was what I was trying to show you that your logic was wrong once again.... Yet you respond with this junk. You are a lost cause.


Thank you, but I answered to that.
It's in there, up there, among your meaningful words.

----------


## ythrashin

> [B]I
> 
> My endo just said, and I gave him my hand, let's try in this way because of... and see how your body responds, we might still want to change in progress by checking on every two weeks basis your blood. To me this an intelligent way of acting.


This is a intelligent way of going about things... 

I'm wondering...
Why no Test? You mentioned risks and reasons in the other thread, what are they? Wouldve saved some questions,assumptions and wouldve had some come to other logical conclusions if you would've mentioned your reasons....

You respond so defensively and take this stuff so personal. Please chill...
I'm trying not to give attitude back, but you have a vague, dancing around the subject way of answering...You may take my questioning the wrong way and you may not like my personalty...I'm just trying to understand some of your logic... You leave out some very "key" points...

BTW..I do apologize for the rude responses in return directed toward you.

General smart ass comments not directed toward you that you took personal for some reason, I do not...

----------


## ythrashin

> Thank you, but I answered to that.
> It's in there, up there, among your meaningful words.


BTW.. you are not "Clean" at night... But having lower blood levels at night may help, by not suppressing your Test production as much at night when your body produces Testosterone . There is some good logic in that...

Although it would be better to have stable blood levels throughout your cycle you would probably see better gains...

But Test you said was not a option...?

----------


## elpropiotorvic

Edites

----------


## zepiqueno

all the admin's have given me pretty much told me the same, pct for an anavar only cycle 2 weeks of clomid ?how is this wrong?

----------


## BJJ

> This is a intelligent way of going about things... 
> 
> *I do apologize for the rude responses in return directed toward you.*


Apologies accepted.

----------


## BJJ

*Day 1*
60 oxa - 3.436 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day2*
60 oxa - 3.550 Kcal - (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Bursts of Heat

*Day3*
60 oxa - 3.199 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness

*Day4*
60 oxa - 3.340 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, 4 mg Loperamide

*Day5*
60 oxa - 2.799 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, Yellow Skin (left biceps & shoulder), 4 mg Loperamide, 25.000 iu Neomycin

*Day6*
60 oxa - 3.646 Kcal - (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Tiredness, Yellow Skin, 1 gr Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day7*
60 oxa - 3.912 Kcal - (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Yellow Skin, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.411

1ST WEEK NOTES
The first week was very hard to go through. No will to eat at all and lots of problem to understand if the diarrhea was due from oxandrolone or liv.52; also I got a persistent sore throat.
The strength increase was considerable, especially on legs and shoulders.
As daily supplements throughout the cycle: (Multi Vitamins/Minerals 1 tb, Vitamin C/Ester 3 gr, EFA complex 6 gr, ALA 600 mg, LIV.52 2 tabs, CLA 4 gr, ZMA, Tribulus Terrestris 3 gr, Chromium Picolinate 400 mcg, Acetyl L-Carnitine 600 mg, Coenzyme Q10, Glutamine 35 gr, BCAA 20 gr, MT Gakic Hardcore 8 tbs (only before w/o), UN Animal Flex 1 pckt.

*Day 8*
60 oxa - 2.415 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite,Tiredness, 25.000 iu Neomycin, 4 mg Loperamide, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

*Day 9*
60 oxa - 3.400 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 10*
60 oxa - 2.760 Kcal - (Cardio 35’)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 11*
60 oxa - 4.208 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Oxandrolone kicked in

*Day 12*
60 oxa - 3.332 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 13*
60 oxa - 3.645 Kcal - (Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 14*
60 oxa - 3.976 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.392

2ND WEEK NOTES
At day 11 finally Anavar showed me its potentiality by improving my strength incredibly. Not only the power to lift was improved but also the reps needed to exhaust the muscles.
Furthermore, I am starving again especially after the work-outs.
The diarrhea was given by Liv.52. I solved the problem by taking only 1 tab in the morning.

----------


## elpropiotorvic

I know ^^ it sucks if u workout at night u almost want to leave whey prepared in the fridge

----------


## thai-lan

thats alot of calories , im sure ur going to bulk up with your var only cycle

----------


## BJJ

> I know ^^ it sucks if u workout at night u almost want to leave whey prepared in the fridge


Well, actually I work-out around lunch time or in the mid afternoon, never at night.
Since a few days, as reported, I have no problem to eat at all but I thought I could have the need to eat in a "stronger" way compared to what I am actually feeling.
Perhaps, 14 days are a too short time and definitively I am not in a test cycle.

----------


## BJJ

> thats alot of calories , im sure ur going to bulk up with your var only cycle


My basal metabolic rate is around 2000 Kcal, plus another more or less 1000 Kcal for everyday activities (including w/o and jj), so I have left always more or less 500 Kcal to grow a little.
I'll see, I am curious to see at the end what achieved, if any.

----------


## BJJ

....

----------


## thai-lan

yeah we got it no need to double post. and i was being sarcastic lol

----------


## BJJ

very funny...
actually i asked how to delete a double post.
do you know how to do it?

----------


## thai-lan

just delete everything in one post then save ,it wont delete it but will get rid of the extra space

----------


## BJJ

Thank you

----------


## MYWHEY

Impressive physique mate, subbed for final results  :Big Grin:

----------


## BJJ

Click Drug Name to View Profile: Anavar

----------


## BJJ

Has anyone ever had a direct experience to validate or invalidate some of the above written statements?

----------


## ythrashin

> and GH (Growth Hormone) will not be suppressed with a low dose of Anavar, but will actually be raised significantly as you may have guessed, and LH will even experience a "rebound" effect when you stop using anavar.


These two things are questionable...

I've read before that GH is only raised with low doses of Anavar 10-20mg...

And the LH rebound effect I've never heard of...

I'll look into it though.

----------


## WARMachine

> Has anyone ever had a direct experience to validate or invalidate some of the above written statements?


Anavar PCT
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=386068

*Read some my discussion in this thread for an idea as to WHY it is a good idea to have a PCT when running an Anavar only cycle.

-WAR*

----------


## ythrashin

All these bridging threads are getting to be a joke. There is no such thing as a bridge, with any AAS, which will be both effective at maintaining AAS induced muscle growth and simultaneously allow full HPTA recovery.

See the following studies with Anavar at 2.5mg/day and it's effect on HPTA.

MaxRep

__________________________________________________ ________________

1: Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1993 Apr;38(4):393-8.

The effects of oxandrolone on the growth hormone and gonadal axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.

Malhotra A, Poon E, Tse WY, Pringle PJ, Hindmarsh PC, Brook CG.

Endocrine Unit, Middlesex Hospital, London, UK.

OBJECTIVE: We studied the effects of oxandrolone on serum concentrations of LH, FSH, testosterone , GH, SHBG, DHEAS, IGF-I and insulin in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.
DESIGN: Ten boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty, mean age 13.8 years (range 12.4-15.5) were studied. Twenty-four-hour serum concentration profiles of GH, LH and FSH were constructed by drawing blood samples at 20-minute intervals. Three study occasions over a period of 6 months were chosen to assess hormone concentrations before, during and 6 weeks after a 3-month course of oxandrolone (2.5 mg once daily) therapy.
RESULTS: Growth velocity increased during oxandrolone treatment and stayed higher after therapy (pre 3.9 +/- 0.5; on 6.3 +/- 0.8; post 6.4 +/- 0.9 cm/year (mean +/- SEM) two way ANOVA, F = 5.3, P = 0.02). Oxandrolone had androgenic effects, suppressing mean serum LH concentrations from 1.7 +/- 0.3 to 1.1 +/- 0.2 U/I and serum testosterone concentrations from 1.9 +/- 0.6 to 0.8 +/- 0.1 nmol/l. SHBG concentrations were also reduced from 130.9 +/- 14.6 to 30.7 +/- 7.3 nmol/l. Serum GH concentration fell slightly from 5.9 +/- 0.6 to 4.8 +/- 0.5 mU/l. After cessation of treatment, there was a significant 'rebound' in mean 24-hour serum LH (2.6 U/l +/- 0.4) and testosterone concentrations (3.2 +/- 0.9 nmol/l) but no change in serum GH concentrations. SHBG values also rose but not to the same extent as those observed before therapy (82.0 +/- 8.4 nmol/l). There were no statistically significant differences in serum concentrations of FSH, DHEAS, IGF-I and insulin over the study period. In a stepwise multiple regression analysis of factors that might influence the growth rate observed, the 24-hour mean serum testosterone concentration and the treatment (on or off) with oxandrolone were the main influences. The relationship was described by the equation Height velocity = 0.69 (24-hour mean serum testosterone concentration)+1.70 (treatment regimen)+3.37 (adjusted R2 = 0.35, F = 8.39, P = 0.001).
CONCLUSIONS: Oxandrolone has an androgenic action as shown by changes in serum LH, testosterone and SHBG concentrations and by the lack of effect on FSH. No effect of oxandrolone on the GH axis was documented. We suggest that the growth promoting effects of oxandrolone are related in part to the mild androgenic effects of the steroid and the growth acceleration following oxandrolone withdrawal may reflect increasing total serum testosterone concentrations and decreasing levels of SHBG and progress in puberty.

PMID: 8319371 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]




1: Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1997 Feb;46(2):209-16.

Effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone treatment on the pituitary-testicular and GH axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.

Crowne EC, Wallace WH, Moore C, Mitchell R, Robertson WH, Holly JM, Shalet SM.

Department of Endocrinology, Christie Hospital Trust, Manchester, UK.

OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone on the pituitary-testicular and GH-IGF-I axes. DESIGN: Prospective double-blind placebo-controlled trial.
PATIENTS: Sixteen boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty (CDGP) with testicular volumes 4-6 ml were randomized to 3 months treatment: Group 1 (n = 5), daily placebo: Group 2 (n = 5), 2.5 mg oxandrolone daily or Group 3 (n = 6), 50 mg testosterone monthly intramuscular injections with assessment (growth, pubertal development and overnight hormone profiles) at 0, 3, 6 and 12 months.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: LH and GH profiles (15-minute samples) were analysed by peak detection (Pulsar), Fourier transformation and autocorrelation. Testosterone levels were measured hourly and insulin, SHBG, IGF-I, and IGFBP-3 levels at 0800 h. Statistical analysis was by multivariate analysis of variance for repeated measures.
RESULTS: LH and testosterone parameters increased significantly with time in all 16 (LH AUC, P < 0.001; peak amplitude, P = 0.02; number of peaks, P = 0.02; testosterone AUC, P = 0.02; morning testosterone, P = 0.002). In Group 2, however, LH and testosterone parameters decreased at 3 months followed by a rebound increase at 6 and 12 months. SHBG levels were markedly reduced at 3 months (P = 0.006) and a wider range of dominant GH frequencies was present although GH AUC was not increased until 6 months, with an increase in GH pulse frequency but not amplitude. IGF-I levels were increased at both 3 and 12 months. In Group 3, pituitary-testicular suppression was not apparent, but GH levels increased with an increase in GH amplitude at 3 and 12 months. CONCLUSION: Oxandrolone transiently suppressed the pituitary-testicular axis and altered GH pulsatility. Testosterone increased GH via amplitude modulation.

----------


## ythrashin

I think the LH rebound effect is also a MYTH. Perhaps at very low dosages under 5mg... But haven't found any concrete evidence...

Anyone??

----------


## spooledup

Those studies have been posted/debated and are done on boys with dysfunctional endocrine systems. We need tests on adult males with healthy endocrine systems.

Secondly, a dose of 2.5mg ox ED and 50mg test monthly are nowhere near an equal comparison. There is no way they can get stable blood levels of test by injecting 50mg once a month, the test will be clear of their system for a very large part of the month.

Nevertheless, in the first test the study concludes oxandrolone only suppressed LH by less than 40% of the normal range. Testosterone is suppressed a bit more but not near castration levels as applying a stable regimen of exogenous testosterone would do. But we'll never know because the dumbass research conductors didn't know how to use the test.

----------


## BJJ

> Those studies have been posted/debated and are done on boys with dysfunctional endocrine systems. We need tests on adult males with healthy endocrine systems.


I shall be a "human guinea pig" then...

----------


## BJJ

> Anavar PCT
> http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=386068
> 
> *Read some my discussion in this thread for an idea as to WHY it is a good idea to have a PCT when running an Anavar only cycle.
> 
> -WAR*


Thank you, very interesting.
Just hoping to get to the right PCT for my genetics.

----------


## BJJ

Regarding blood analyses in progress, I am going saturday morning after 17 days to check:

CHOLESTEROL TTL
CHOLESTEROL HDL & LDL
BILIRUBIN (TTL & DIVIDED)
CREATININE
AZOTEMIA
AMYLASE
TRANSAMINASE ALT/GPT
GAMMA GT

TESTOSTERONE 
TESTOSTERONE FREE
SHBG
LH
FSH
INSULIN (basal)
IGF-1
HGH
DHEAS

URINE TEST

Forgetting anything?

----------


## BJJ

The Oxandrolone steroid appeared in USA in 1964, under Anavar  denomination and produced by Serl company. Its a delicate steroid with a weak androgen component. It had been observed that if this steroid is used in reasonable doses, it hasnt any side effect, because it was initially produced for women and children. Is one of the few steroids which doesnt provoke the premature retardation of kid's body development because it doesnt close the epiphysis conjunctions. Accordingly, the Oxandrolone steroid is used in medicine for children to stimulate their growing and for women to treat the osteoporosis.

The Oxandrolone steroid provokes very weak masculinity symptoms. This quality makes it very effective for women, because for 10-15 mg a day dose cant be observed masculinity effects.

The bodybuilders and powerlifters prefer the Oxandralone steroid. It helps to consolidate their force in a speedy way because it provokes the creatinphosphats syntesis in muscular cells and it doesnt accumulates liquids. The weightlifters who dont want to be included in a high category use this concoction because it increase their force without increasing their weight in the same time.

The daily combination of Oxandrolone and 10-12 mg of Halotestin had been proven to be very effective because its utilization gives musculature a more inflexible aspect.

The daily combination of Oxandrolone and 120-140 mg of Clenbuterol helps to obtain good results too. The Oxandrolone doesnt increase the musculature, but it increase the other steroids effects on the organism. The concoction is combined with Deca -Durabolin , with Dynabolon and with others Testosterone s derived which accumulate liquids and assure the considerable musculature increase . A daily combination of 200 mg of Deca-Durabolin, 500 mg of Testosterone Enanthate and 25 mg of Oxandrolon helps most athletes to increase their weight and their force. The Deca-Durabolin has an anabolic effect more pronounced and stimulates the proteins synthesis, the Oxandrolon increases the force and the Testosterone makes sportsmen more aggressive during the trainings and increases the regeneration speed.

Another reason of which the Oxandrolone is used, is that the steroid doesnt aromatize no matter how big is the dose. As we mentioned earlier, a big part of blood testosterone is transformed in estrogens. After Oxandrolons utilization, the musculature will not have an aqueous aspect; thats why the concoction is supposed to be very effective for trainings before competitions. During those trainings, its very important to maintain the estrogens to a low level because the estrogens provoke the liquid accumulation in the organism even if the athlete have a less calories diet. In combination with the diet, the Oxandrolone helps to obtain a strong and elastic musculature. Although the concoction doesnt help to fats burning, it has a complementary role because it diminishing the appetite.

The Oxandrolone can provoke heavy stomach sensation and nausea sensations if the pills are used during the meals.
Pursuant to Italian prospect, the steroid has a big influence on digestive tract (some sportsmen have regular diarrhea).
The concoction helps sporters to burn the fats and gives body slenderness.
Those who trains for competitions or those who are very interested of musculature quality should combine the Oxandrolon with steroids such as Winstrol , Parabolan , Masteron , Primobolan or Testosterone Propionate .
The combination of 50 mg a day, 50 mg of Testosterone Propionate at every two days and 25 mg of Oxandrolone a day its very effective combination.

Side effects of Oxandrolone:

It had been demonstrated that sportsmen who have an increased arterial tension caused by androgen steroids or those who have ginaecomasty will not have any problem with Oxandrolone because it doesnt aromatize. The combination of Oxandrolone with Deca-Durabolin is for some athletes the best choice in case they face problems because of others steroids utilization (Testosterones, Dianabol , Anapolon 50). The Oxandrolone is also recommended because it is a chemical substance which doesnt influence the production of specific hormones in organism. During the Oxandrolons utilization, the testicles dont signalize the diminution or the interruption of hormones production. This specific quality of Oxandrolon steroid is possible because the active chemical substance isnt aromatized in estrogens.

Doctor Mauro de Pascuale says:  ..it is supposed that the estrogens which appear because of the testosterone aromatization and because of other anabolic steroids diminish the luteinesation hormones secretion from brain and hypothalamus and the testosterone generation too (The side effects of anabolic steroids  facts, fictions and treatment) . The american doctor Robert Kerr confirms this in  The practical anabolic steroids utilization : If a healthy man uses Oxandrolone (Anavar) in augmented doses, he will not diminish the spermatozoon quantity and the sperm quantity will not be transformed into estrogens. . Thats why the Oxandrolone is very well combined even with 240 mg a day of Andriol , isnt aromatized and the hormones secretion in the organism isnt affected. The daily utilization of 280 mg Andriol with 25 mg Oxandrolone can increase the force and for the beginners can increase the musculature without a significant water accumulation .

When it comes from Oxandrolone, good results are obtained through utilization of 8-12 pills for men and 5-6 pills for women. It has been practically confirmed that the utilization rule is 0.25 mg ofsteroid/1 kg from athletes weight. Usually, the pills are used 2-3 times a day after the meal and this way the active chemical substance from the steroid is totally absorbed. Those who have digestive tract problems should take the pastilles 1 or 2 hours after the meal or they should give up on taking them. Lots of athletes use Oxandrolone for a long time because isnt very toxic and it hasnt side effects. But it shouldnt be used for a long time without a pause because as well as the others oral steroids is a 17-alfa alchylate and it has influences on the liver.

The Oxandrolone is a spread steroid and it is often used by women . Women who are sensitive to anabolic steroids can obtain good results if they combine it with Primobolan or/and with Clenbuterol; this way the masculinity side effects cant appear. However, women shouldnt use this concoction in doses bigger than 6 pills a day, otherwise side effects such as acne, voice thickening, clitoris hypertrophy or hairiness could appear.

The main disadvantage of this concoction is the big price. The Italian Oxandrolone, supplied on the Russian market (30 pills of 2.5 mg) has a medium price of 25-30$ . There is a possibility for Oxandrolon to become more accessible , because a chinesse firm (Hubei Huangsi Pharmaceuticals) produce its own Oxandrolone in pills of 5 mg which will have a calculated price of 40$/blister (30 pastilles). The B.M Pharmaceuticals Indian firm started the production of injectable Oxandrolone  the Oxandrolonject product of 10 mg/phial.


Oxandrolone, the commercial denomination:
Anavar/out of market/ 2,5mg/lozenge
Anatrophill/ out of market / 2,5mg/ lozenge
Lipidex 2,5mg/ lozenge
Lonavar/ out of market / 2,5mg/ lozenge
Oxandrolone SPA 2,5mg/ lozenge

----------


## BJJ

> Impressive physique mate, subbed for final results


thank you

----------


## elpropiotorvic

I have exp de lh rebound

----------


## BJJ

what happened then? how long did it last?

----------


## elpropiotorvic

Mmm don't remember exactly man ... New baby brother and three girls atthe time ...but I know I had been away from the gym for about 1 month and something because injured my ankle ... ... Came back just like that squatting 225 for 12 reps ... I had been away from gym and bad diet so it was more like 7 weeks just lying at home and sitting at the desk ... And i was able to respond to all three girls perfectly...I was very very horny...and also a lot more aggressive in the lifts ...I was having sex probably about 9 to 10 times per week all the times I wanted it like it was the first time I saw porn ....

----------


## BJJ

Wow... not bad.

----------


## ythrashin

> I have exp de lh rebound


Pure speculation without blood work.....

----------


## BJJ

Updated stats on day 16:

Body Weight: 94,5 kg (207,9 lbs) *+8,62%*
Body Fat: 14% *+8,52%*
Body Water: 63,6% *+0,63%*
Estimated Muscle Mass: 77,3 kg (170,6 lbs) *+5,17%*

(given data by Tanita BC-418)

Getting bigger I would say but the fat too!
I suppose I have to modify my diet.

(current-previous)/previous*100 = + increase% or - decrease%

----------


## thai-lan

so you put on 15pounds and bodyfat aswell ?? 

do you think that electronic scale is right? i think , caliper is the best way to measure the bodyfat

----------


## ythrashin

I agree those electronic bf% checkers are not accurate.

----------


## ythrashin

Holy shit that Tanita BC-418 scale costs over 5,000 dollars... It better be accurate!!! :AaGreen22:

----------


## WARMachine

> Regarding blood analyses in progress, I am going saturday morning after 17 days to check:
> 
> CHOLESTEROL TTL
> CHOLESTEROL HDL & LDL
> BILIRUBIN (TTL & DIVIDED)
> CREATININE
> AZOTEMIA
> AMYLASE
> TRANSAMINASE ALT/GPT
> ...


*Free test. Always.*

----------


## elpropiotorvic

I don't know what it was ... Like u said if there is no blood work to prove it it could be too many things but one thing is for sure ... I thought that maybe the var I took had some other compoundthat hit after 10 weeks or something(as stupid as it sound the change wAs that big that I thought I had juice running on my bloodstream) but man ... I felt a difference in all those things I mentioned ,.,. I think it's ph rebound because of one of the articles recently posted ....before I read that I just thought that my source was packed with some other Weird ass acting substance

----------


## ythrashin

Perhaps it was...and perhaps there is more to var then we know. If you do var again you should do blood tests weekly from the last week week of the cycle to 4 weeks after. Testing LH levels...

----------


## scoobysti87

just finished reading through the majority of this thread, very good read and thank you to bjj and everyone else who has contributed to this.

----------


## BJJ

> so you put on 15pounds and bodyfat aswell ?? 
> 
> do you think that electronic scale is right? i think , caliper is the best way to measure the bodyfat


Before buying the Tanita I have at home for regular checks (which I paid more than 3500 eu) I went to the usual private clinic to undergo a BMI/BMC and a hydrostatic weighing (the best measurements ever).

Well, my incredibility was deep when I figured out the results were the same.
So yes, I think I spent the money in a good way, the scale is correct.

----------


## BJJ

> Holy shit that Tanita BC-418 scale costs over 5,000 dollars... It better be accurate!!!


I just answered thai-lan about that.
I am glad you checked out yourself...

Even though my experience brings me to say not all the time the more expensive the better... but this time it is like that.

----------


## BJJ

> *Free test. Always.*


Thank you, just added.

----------


## BJJ

> just finished reading through the majority of this thread, very good read and thank you to bjj and everyone else who has contributed to this.


Well it is not finished yet... many weeks have to come...
Thanks

----------


## mikey24

Are you taking anything to keep the VAR from thrashing your good cholesterol HDL?Are your just not that worried about it?

----------


## BJJ

Sure, it's written.

I take EFA complex, ALA and LIV.52

Tomorrow I am going to check up my blood, so I'll see how things are going and if the supplements I take are enough.

----------


## mikey24

> Sure, it's written.
> 
> I take EFA complex, ALA and LIV.52
> 
> Tomorrow I am going to check up my blood, so I'll see how things are going and if the supplements I take are enough.


If u find out their not enough, I read niacin can be very beneficial.
Also are you taking anything to supplement whatever natural TEST you might have suppressed from the var?Such as;tribulus,zma or any other test booster?I have always pondered if a test booster would help in such a cycle without test,maybe all start a thread.

----------


## BJJ

> If u find out their not enough, I read niacin can be very beneficial.
> Also are you taking anything to supplement whatever natural TEST you might have suppressed from the var?Such as;tribulus,zma or any other test booster?I have always pondered if a test booster would help in such a cycle without test,maybe all start a thread.


Niacine is also called Vitamin PP.
Yes I already take that too, I take many supplements actually.
Thanks for the clue anyway.

I have either Tribulus and ZMA, but for my PCT.
I have on hand for the 5th week (but I was considering starting at the 4th) mesterolone, 25mg ed.

So far, I am at my 17th day, I experienced only loss of libido.
My testicles are big as usual, as well as my scrotum. When I need "that piece of meat" to raise and work, it does and the sperm volume and quantity did not change at all.

I'll see the next weeks.

----------


## BJJ

An intrinsically weak steroid with a high price-tag and low availability, oxandrolone owes its large popularity due to its safety. In sharp contrast to oxymetholone, oxandrolone is quite generally considered to be the safest of all steroids . Its effects are more than well-documented and have been for a few decades now. The medical community values oxandrolone as a safe alternative for more harmful steroids, which is why it is considered safe for use in children and even in patients suffering hepa-toxicity as the result of alternate steroid use .

It's most noted medical use has been in the expediting of wound healing often practically applied to the treatment of burns. But recently its gaining popularity again as a means of keeping weight on HIV-infected patients suffering from wasting due to the immuno-deficiency virus. It was also considered safe for use in prepubescent children with a growth delay7. No major harmful effects were noted from this particular therapy, eventhough one study reported that the use of oxandrolone did speed up the onset of puberty in these children. Furthermore oxandrolone has found frequent applications in the treatment of other wasting symptoms for hepatitis and cancer as well as the treatment of osteoporosis in both men and women of all ages.

Oxandrolone was introduced in the year 1964, when Searle came out with the original Anavar . It quickly became the popular drug in the sports crowd for people looking for a safer alternative to the major steroid at the time, Dianabol (methandrostenolone ). It remained one of the best-sellers for well over 2 decades until it was indefinitely discontinued in the year 1989. Much to the regret of the recreational bodybuilding and powerlifting community. The prices have remained high for the little stock that remained available. The only brand readily found was oxandrolone SPA, manufactured in Milano, Italy. That is, until 1995 when its use in the treatment of the then vastly spreading immuno-deficiency disease AIDS9 sparked the interest of BTG, a US-based company who came out with Oxandrin. The first widely available oxandrolone product since Anavar production was stopped.

The main reasons for the wide-spread use of oxandrolone in sports is because it is very appealing to female athletes as well as male athletes. It causes little or no virilization properties, demonstrated by its medical uses to treat women. This is rather surprising since oxandrolone does not aromatize either. It's the only steroid that is both safe and convenient without producing excess estrogen. That makes it particularly useful when cutting up for a contest or preventing an increase in body-fat due to estrogenic effects. In fact the main use of oxandrolone to a bodybuilder is in the maintenance of lean mass while reducing body-fat. Oxandrolone itself may not actually reduce body-fat, but it too plays a key role in the process. Like most non-aromatizing compounds it has a repressing effect on the appetite making it easier for the user to control cravings and stay strict with his diet.

Oxandrolone also has little effect on the body's own natural hormone production. The negative feedback was found to be very minor, meaning that during short term use no suppression of Gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH, start of natural testosterone production) was noted. This meant that whatever gains made, as little as they may have been, were very easily maintained post-cycle. So there was also no use for products like Clomid or Nolvadex in conjunction with oxandrolone consumption. The easy to maintain low gains would indicate a low binding to the androgen receptor. While not extremely high, it should actually be noted that it does have quite decent binding to the androgen receptor. But the reason for its mild effects is quite likely the low dose used. Rarely if ever are doses higher than 20 mg used on a daily basis. Either because of convenience or due to the high price. But comparing that the doses of other steroids this is remarkably low. So its only logical the gains and side-effects aren't particularly notable.

Of course a bodybuilder has limited use for a compound that is both a weak androgen in the doses mostly used and doesn't aromatize since no mentionable effect on mass can be produced to satisfy the chemically enhanced athlete. Therefor it is best noted that oxandrolone is most popular with power- and weightlifters to enhance strength without increasing bodyweight. This is valued highly since strength athletes often compete in weight-classes. Oxandrolone does not increase strength through androgenic stimulation, at least not primarily. It stimulates the formation of phosphocreatine, a body compound that can replenish ATP (adenosine tri-phosphate) , the main energy currency of the living organism. This gives an incredible increase in short term anaerobic performance, the type needed for explosive action such as sprinting and lifting weight.

For bodybuilders the best results are seen when stacking oxandrolone with a highly androgenic compound. Either during a mass stack with aromatizable products to boost strength a little more, or in conjunction with a non-estrogenic compound. This is most beneficial since it can maintain lean mass, decrease appetite, improve sharpness of the muscle and keep strength levels up without giving increased androgenic risk (acne, prostate hypertrophy, hair loss) when stacked with pure androgens (stanozolol , drostanolone). For those looking for safe maintenance of muscle mass a stack of Anavar with Primobolan is not a bad investment (but a big investment). The common use of oxandrolone is estimated, at 0.125 mg per pound of bodyweight. For men it should be closer to 0.2 mg per pound, for women 0.08 mg per pound per day.

The downsides to oxandrolone are minor. The worst problem by far is the poor availability and high price. But it has to be noted that, eventhough oxandrolone is nowhere near Halotestin or anadrol in hepa-toxicity, it too is a 17-alpha-alkylated substance that can cause liver damage if used for long periods on end. Other common side-effects include headaches, loss of libido, diarrhea and dizziness.

The conclusion to follow these paragraphs is of course that oxandrolone is understandably still a popular and very versatile steroid, much desired by both experienced athletes and novice users because of its many properties. While few will say this is the best or their favorite steroid, you won't find many that will have anything negative to say about it either.

Because of its mild nature and the low doses generally used with oxandrolone there is very little use for secondary compounds like anti-aromatase drugs, estrogen receptor antagonists or blood pressure medication. That in itself may somewhat make up for the high cost and little gains made on it.

In stacks Anavar is sometimes used to increase strength or help maintain it during mass phases. Oxandrolone obviously has very little to add in terms of mass compared to the other substances used to obtain such goals. It fades in comparison to test, Deca , Anadrol, D-bol and such. Nonetheless it is added quite often, perhaps because people assume it will make the overall stack less hazardous, but that's a myth of course. Frankly I would imagine there are better and cheaper things to waste your money on if mass is what you seek.

On a cutting phase oxandrolone makes a good match for 120-140 mcg of clenbuterol daily stacked with something in the nature of Halotestin or Winstrol . The combination improves muscle hardness and striation as well as support mass and strength retention. Experienced users would preferably add testosterone propionate or Equipoise no doubt, rather than Halotestin or Winstrol due to less hazard to the liver associated with those two drugs, especially Halotestin.

Mostly it is used for decent strength gains without gaining too much weight, particularly suited for weight- and powerlifters and martial artists. In that aspect, and in my humble opinion, Winstrol would be a good choice for a stack. 50 mg of Winstrol every day to every other day stacked with 30-40 mg of oxandrolone daily would give a very good result in overall strength enhancement without adding a mentionable amount of weight to the frame.

----------


## BJJ

Proviron is a synthetic, orally effective androgen which does not have any anabolic characteristics. Proviron is used in school medicine to ease or cure disturbances eaused by a deficiency of male sex hormones. Many athletes, for this reason, often use Proviron at the end of a steroid treatment in order to increase the reduced testosterone production. This, however is not a good idea since Proviron has no effect on the body's own testosterone production but-as mentioned in the beginning-only reduces or completely eliminates the dysfunctions caused by the testosterone deficiency. These are in particular impotence which is mostly caused by an androgen deficiency that can occur after the discontinuance of steroids , and infertility which manifests itself in a reduced sperm count and a reduced sperm quality. Proviron is therefore taken during a steroid administration or after discontinuing the use of the steroids, to eliminate a possible impotency or a reduced sexual interest. This, however does not contribute to the maintainance of strength and muscle mass after the treatment. There are other better suited compounds for this (see HCG and Clomid). For this reason Proviron is unfortunately cunsidered by many to be a useless and unnecessary compound.

You should be aware that Proviron is also an estrogen antagonist which prevents the aromatization of steroids. Unlike the antiestrogen Nolvadex which only blocks the estrogen receptors (see Nolvadex) Proviron already prevents the aromatizing of steroids. Therefore gynecomastia and increased water retention are successfully blocked. Since Proviron strongly suppresses the forming of estrogens no rebound effect occurs after discontinuation of use of the compound as is the case with, for example, Nolvadex where an aromatization of the steroids is not prevented. One can say that Nolvadex cures the problem of aromatization at its root while Nolvadex simply cures the symptoms. For this reason male athletes should prefer Proviron to Nolvadex. With Proviron the athlete obtains more muscle hardness since the androgen level is increased and the estrogen concentration remains low. This, in particular, is noted positively during the preparation for a competition when used in combination with a diet. Female athletes who naturally have a higher estrogen level often supplement their steroid intake with Proviron resulting in an increased muscle hardness. In the past it was common for bodybuilders to take a daily dose of one 25 mg tablet over several weeks, sometimes even months, in order to appear hard all year round. This was especially important for athletes appearances at guest performances, seminars and photo sessions. Today Clenbuterol is usually taken over the entire year since possible virilization symptoms cannot occur which is not yet the case with Proviron. Since Proviron is very effective male athletes usually need only 50 mg/day which means that the athlete usually takes one 25 mg tablet in the morning and another 25 mg tablet in the evening. In some cases one 25 mg tablet per day is sufficient. When combining Proviron with Nolvadex (50 mg Proviron/day and 20 mg Nolvadex/day) this will lead to an almost complete suppression of estrogen.

The side effects of Proviron in men are low at a dosage of 2-3 tablets/day so that Proviron, taken for example in combination with a steroid cycle, can be used comparatively without risk over several weeks. Since Proviron is well-tolerated by the liver liver dysfunctions do not occur in the given dosages. For athletes who are used to acting under the motto "more is better" the intake of Proviron could have a paradoxical effect. The most common side effect of Proviron-or in this case, secondary symptom- is in part a distinct sexual overstimulation and in some cases continuous penis erection. Since this condition can be painful and lead to possible damages, a lower dosage or discontinuing the compound are the only sensible solutions. Female athletes should use Proviron with caution since possible androgenic side effects cannot be excluded. Women who want to give Proviron a try should not take more than one 25 mg tablet per day. Higher dosages and periods of intake of more than four weeks considerably increase the risk of virilization symptoms. Female athletes who have no difficulties with Proviron obtain good results with 25 mg Proviron/day and 20 mg Nolvadex/day and, in combination with a diet, report an accelerated fat breakdown and continuously harder muscles.

Proviron is one of the very few steroid hormones which is still sufficiently available. The brand name Proviron costs about $35 in Germany and contains fifty 25 mg tablets. Vistimon by Jenapharm costs $ 14 per box and is packaged in two push-through strips of 10 tablets each. Proviron by Asche contains 30 dragees and costs $20.. As one can see all German manufacturers charge about $70 for one 25 mg Mesterolon tablet. This is similar to the generally observed price of $ 1 per tablet on the black market. Since the Spanish and Mexican Proviron are less expensive than the German Proviron (all compounds are by Schering) they are more readily available on the black market. The original price for 20 tablets in Spain, for example, is $ 3.60. Depending on the country of origin Proviron is packaged differently. The German Proviron is offered in small glass vials while the Spanish, Greek, and Mexican versions are included in push-through strips. However, all Proviron tablets have one thing in common: they are all indented and on the back have the stamp AX,surrounded by a hexagon. So far there are no fakes available of either Proviron or its generic compounds.

Proviron information. Proviron is the Schering brand name for the oral androgen mesterolone(1 methyl-dihydrotestosterone). Just as with DHT, the activity of Proviron is that of a strong androgen which does not aromatize into estrogen. In clinical situations Proviron is generally used to treat various types of sexual dysfunction, which often result from a low endogenous testosterone level. Proviron can usually reverse problems of sexual disinterest and impotency, and it is sometimes used to increase the sperm count. Proviron does not stimulate the body to produce testosterone, but mesterolone is simply an oral androgen substitute that is used to compensate for a lack of the natural male androgen. Although mesterolone is strongly androgenic, the anabolic effect of Proviron is considered too weak for muscle building purposes.
Proviron cycle. Most athletes actually prefer to use both Proviron and Nolvadex, especially during strongly estrogenic cycles. Proviron and Nolvadex attack estrogen at a different angle, side effects are often greatly minimized.

----------


## lucyluciano

How much $$ is a good run of Anavar ?

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## BJJ

Too generic.

How many weeks?
How do you intend to run your pct? I mean which drugs and length.

You also have to consider the supplements...

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## lucyluciano

I mean the Var only. I hear it's expensve for the benefits compared to other orals. Many say it's best. Left for women. I have always been intriged by Var. Say a 4 week straight cycle. Have run promag, epi, 1-T, Spawn, SD. I know many are more powerful. Just wondering the cost effectiveness? 




> Too generic.
> 
> How many weeks?
> How do you intend to run your pct? I mean which drugs and length.
> 
> You also have to consider the supplements...

----------


## BJJ

> I mean the Var only. I hear it's expensve for the benefits compared to other orals. Many say it's best. Left for women. I have always been intriged by Var. Say a 4 week straight cycle. Have run promag, epi, 1-T, Spawn, SD. I know many are more powerful. Just wondering the cost effectiveness?


Var only at 60mg ed per 4 weeks, I would have paid a lot, "more or less".
I cannot tell you if it is worth compared to other steroids since this is my first cycle.
So far I am happy, I got good strength and have taken 15 lbs in 2 weeks, mostly lean mass.
Good Luck for your choice.

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## chuckt12345

BJJ they gonna tell you to delete the price talk

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## Mooseman33

and 15lbs of lean mass in 2 weeks from var?

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## BJJ

> BJJ they gonna tell you to delete the price talk


thanks man, I forgot it... :Chairshot:  :Chairshot:  :Chairshot:

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## BJJ

> and 15lbs of lean mass in 2 weeks from var?


16 Days actually and not only lean mass. Just read above...

Well I was surprised too when I jumped on the balance.
One explanation could be due to the fact I reached naturally two years ago 210,1lbs, 17,5% bf.
So, the organism just took me back to that point (muscolar memory) with less fat and the same water percentage (I eat clean and high on daily calories). Anyway, I already improved my lean mass but I guess the effect of oxandrolone will be seen, if any, from now on since I never went above that weight.
I'll see.

----------


## lucyluciano

> 16 Days actually and not only lean mass. Just read above...
> 
> Well I was surprised too when I jumped on the balance.
> One explanation could be due to the fact I reached naturally two years ago 210,1lbs, 17,5% bf.
> So, the organism just took me back to that point (muscolar memory) with less fat and the same water percentage (I eat clean and high on daily calories). Anyway, I already improved my lean mass but I guess the effect of oxandrolone will be seen, if any, from now on since I never went above that weight.
> I'll see.


15 lbs in two weeks are impossible from VAR. Muscle memory would not apply if your diet and training were in check before you started your cycle which they should have been anyway and you should already know this judging by all the info you post. If you BLEW UP by 15 lbs in 2 weeks it would not be LBM it would be glycogen and water but definitely not from VAR. I have not run Var but do have experience with other more powerfull orals. Var is at the bottom of the list forthese types of gains. The only explanation is that you mistakenly have a bottle full of Superdrol with a Var lable. LOL! SD could provide these gains but it's only glycogen & water not LBM. LBM comes in much slower. 15 lbs in 2 weeks is reserved for the strongest compounds and most with experience will tell you this. We don't want noobs thinking they will gain 15 lbs on Var let alone in two weeks. Highly suspect here no matter what you say!

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## thai-lan

lol you didnt put on 15lbs lean body mass... quit lying

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## BJJ

> lol you didnt put on 15lbs lean body mass... quit lying


I have no idea what people you know or deal with but I am not a lier.

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## BJJ

> 15 lbs in two weeks are impossible from VAR. *I would not use "impossible" but rather improbable.* Muscle memory would not apply if your diet and training were in check before you started your cycle which they should have been anyway and you should already know this judging by all the info you post. *What are you talking about, do you know what "muscle memory means"?* If you BLEW UP by 15 lbs in 2 weeks it would not be LBM it would be glycogen and water but definitely not from VAR. *I raised also my fat too, so it is not 15lbs LBM ony but it is not surely just water otherwise I could not be able to go over the max weights I lifted in my past training experience and mostly, could not be able to fight at the same speed and with the same flexibility I used to do 20 days ago with 15lbs less.* I have not run Var but do have experience with other more powerfull orals. Var is at the bottom of the list forthese types of gains. The only explanation is that you mistakenly have a bottle full of Superdrol with a Var lable. LOL! SD could provide these gains but it's only glycogen & water not LBM. LBM comes in much slower. *Only new lean mass comes in slowly. That's why I was talking about muscle memory, because I just got back to my previous weight fastly but with less body fact.* 15 lbs in 2 weeks is reserved for the strongest compounds and most with experience will tell you this. We don't want noobs thinking they will gain 15 lbs on Var let alone in two weeks. *Dont' tell me since I am the first who wants to give right info and this thread has had this meaning from the beginning. I haven't seen so many people "wasting" their times sharing their experiences so deeply like I am doing. But newbies must know about muscle memory real meaning and understand that, as already written, the real "deal" with oxandrolone will be from now on since I already am stonger than ever before but my weight is still within the genetic limit.* Highly suspect here no matter what you say! *"no matter what you say", Who are you, God incarnate?*


When I do something I am really fussy, so I'll get informed if it is possible to undergo a specific blood check for knowing the kind of steroid flowing into my veins.
This is the suggestion, in case, I would have giving you. Something structural.

I am racing with nobody here in this forum, the race is with myself only, and my genetic limit.
I say this because only a few of you have the will to speak with me, all the rest want only to "fight" all the time.

----------


## lovbyts

Guys, BJJ is trying to do us a favor with this post/logs. Lets not go calling him a liar because he is having great gains. 

Dont think it's only the Var, if his diet is in check and he has a really good routine and changed up recently it's not impossible for him to have those gains. It just shows his dedication.

Congratulations on your results and keep up the good work.

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## thai-lan

im not hating on you but you are giving false information , you didnt put on 15pounds of muscle mass. Yes you put on 15pounds but only 5lbs muscle mass. 

let us know about the bloodwork

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## lucyluciano

> im not hating on you but you are giving false information , you didnt put on 15pounds of muscle mass. Yes you put on 15pounds but only 5lbs muscle mass. 
> 
> let us know about the bloodwork


+1! Var did not put on 15 lbs. Perhaps it was your diet and training that brought you back to your previous weight!? But if you are as fussy as you say you are then you would already know that your diet and training should have been on track before you started with Roids! Fine, I admit that many use a cycle to re-motivate themselves and get back to their BEST but 15 lbs in two weeks.

Not dissing you...just pointing out what the experienced here already know and trying to not mislead those considering the juice. 
Let me describe what 8 lbs in 30 days looks like and feels like for me!

>massive skin splitting pumps during a workout to the point of pain from the glycogen and water being shuttled to the swelling muscles.
>increased vascularity in arms and chest (body type dependant)
>swollen muscle bellies to the point where others in the gym stare and notice the difference and some actually know I am ON.
>of course....increase in strength and lifts by 10-20%.
>because of the muscles swelling, all my close fit tighter! almost too tight!

This is from only 7-8 lbs in 30 days! :Welcome:

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## elpropiotorvic

If his diet is in point and probably was before the var ... And his habits are good and he has been that weight before it can be done .... The guy has absolutely no need to lie... He is trying to inform people what happened to HIM while on var not what should the expectations be on var

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## lovbyts

Remeber guys we also can fluctuate 4+ lbs in one day so it's not impossible.

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## Vitruvian-Man

> Remeber guys we also can fluctuate 4+ lbs in one day so it's not impossible.


... I think you just have to start using your head bro.

*"have taken 15 lbs in 2 weeks, mostly lean mass." - BJJ. 
*
Ya, ok.  :Chairshot:  LOL.

I love how it keeps getting racked up as "muscle memory." 

BJJ why don't you post a picture. 15 pounds will be very noticeable. lol.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## BJJ

> Guys, BJJ is trying to do us a favor with this post/logs. Lets not go calling him a liar because he is having great gains. 
> 
> Dont think it's only the Var, if his diet is in check and he has a really good routine and changed up recently it's not impossible for him to have those gains. It just shows his dedication.
> 
> Congratulations on your results and keep up the good work.





> If his diet is in point and probably was before the var ... And his habits are good and he has been that weight before it can be done .... The guy has absolutely no need to lie... He is trying to inform people what happened to HIM while on var not what should the expectations be on var


Thank you very much guys I appreciate it, at least you lovbyts and you elpropiotorvic understand the meaning of my thread.

----------


## BJJ

> im not hating on you but you are giving false information , you didnt put on 15pounds of muscle mass. Yes you put on 15pounds but only 5lbs muscle mass. 
> 
> let us know about the bloodwork





> ... I think you just have to start using your head bro.
> 
> *"have taken 15 lbs in 2 weeks, mostly lean mass." - BJJ. 
> *
> Ya, ok.  LOL.
> 
> I love how it keeps getting racked up as "muscle memory." 
> 
> BJJ why don't you post a picture. 15 pounds will be very noticeable. lol.



1. I am not giving false information.
2. I never said I have put only lean mass but I have written "I have got lean mass and also fat, so I have to check back my diet".

I do not like people who try to jeopardize my work (whatever it is) but mostly I do not want to appear the "lier" in here, because I am not.
I believe you have to watch your mouth before saying things like that about a person you do not know.

To make you SHUT once for all, you and all of your friends, I have posted my last BMI/BMC (just a brief page) taken in September 2009 just a couple of weeks before starting the cycle, the 23rd. You'll see I was 188,32 lbs (85,6kg) with 12,7bf.
Then, I also posted a pic just taken from my little Tanita I use at home, to show you my weight right now, considering I ate 2 hours ago and were wearing my pigiama.

Respect this thread.

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## BJJ

> Remeber guys we also can fluctuate 4+ lbs in one day so it's not impossible.


Well said

----------


## BJJ

> *...He is trying to inform people what happened to HIM while on var not what should the expectations be on var*


Exactly!!!

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## Big

well I for one appreciate you taking the time to keep up this log. just because anavar doesn't appeal to some doesn't mean it's not a viable compound for others.

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## BJJ

> well I for one appreciate you taking the time to keep up this log. just because anavar doesn't appeal to some doesn't mean it's not a viable compound for others.


Thank you.

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## canadian meat

You have the ugliest feet I have ever seen on a human....or animal for that matter
none the less cool thread and I appreciate you sharing your progress :Thumps Up:

----------


## BJJ

> You have the ugliest feet I have ever seen on a human...


thank you

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## gymnerd

> *You have the ugliest feet I have ever seen on a human....or animal for that matter*none the less cool thread and I appreciate you sharing your progress


LOL that is just wrong

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## arch

keep up the good work

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## BJJ

> keep up the good work


thanks

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## BJJ

> Var did not put on 15 lbs. Perhaps it was your diet and training that brought you back to your previous weight!?
> *Said in this way it has a meaning and I also believe, as previously stated, that var gave me strength so far and help me to get back really quickly to my "genetic" limit. That's it.
> I have to go over that weight keeping at least my bf at the same level, to see real signs of oxandrolone.*
> 
> Not dissing you...just pointing out what the experienced here already know and trying to not mislead those considering the juice. 
> *I am misleading nobody here, I am just reporting my experience.*
> 
> >massive skin splitting pumps during a workout to the point of pain from the glycogen and water being shuttled to the swelling muscles.
> *did happen*
> ...


bold

----------


## *El Diablo*

Bump for great informed thread

----------


## BJJ

*Day1*
60 oxa - 3.436 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day2*
60 oxa - 3.550 Kcal - (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Bursts of Heat

*Day3*
60 oxa - 3.199 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness

*Day4*
60 oxa - 3.340 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, 4 mg Loperamide

*Day5*
60 oxa - 2.799 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, Yellow Skin (left biceps & shoulder), 4 mg Loperamide, 25.000 iu Neomycin

*Day6*
60 oxa - 3.646 Kcal - (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Tiredness, Yellow Skin, 1 gr Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day7*
60 oxa - 3.912 Kcal - (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Yellow Skin, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.411

1ST WEEK NOTES
The first week was very hard to go through. No will to eat at all and lots of problem to understand if the diarrhea was due from oxandrolone or liv.52; also I got a persistent sore throat.
The strength increase was considerable, especially on legs and shoulders.
As daily supplements throughout the cycle: (Multi Vitamins/Minerals 1 tb, Vitamin C/Ester 3 gr, EFA complex 6 gr, ALA 600 mg, LIV.52 2 tabs, CLA 4 gr, ZMA, Tribulus Terrestris 3 gr, Chromium Picolinate 400 mcg, Acetyl L-Carnitine 600 mg, Coenzyme Q10, Glutamine 35 gr, BCAA 20 gr, MT Gakic Hardcore 8 tbs (only before w/o), UN Animal Flex 1 pckt.

*Day 8*
60 oxa - 2.415 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite,Tiredness, 25.000 iu Neomycin, 4 mg Loperamide, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

*Day 9*
60 oxa - 3.400 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 10*
60 oxa - 2.760 Kcal - (Cardio 35’)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 11*
60 oxa - 4.208 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Oxandrolone kicked in

*Day 12*
60 oxa - 3.332 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 13*
60 oxa - 3.645 Kcal - (Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 14*
60 oxa - 3.976 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.392

2ND WEEK NOTES
At day 11 finally Anavar showed me its potentiality by improving my strength incredibly. Not only the power to lift was improved but also the reps needed to exhaust the muscles.
Furthermore, I am starving again especially after the work-outs.
The diarrhea was given by Liv.52. I solved the problem by taking only 1 tab in the morning.

*Day 15*

60 oxa – 3.698 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 16*

60 oxa – 3.645 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

Updated Stats (from the beginning):
BW: 94,5 kg (207,9 lbs) *+8,62%*, BF: 14% *+8,52%*, WTR: 63,6% *+0,63%*, EMM: 77,3 kg (170,6 lbs) *+5,17%*
(data given by Tanita BC-418)

*Day 17*

60 oxa – 3.591 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Diarrhea, 4 mg Loperamide

*Day 18*

60 oxa – 3.016 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

_Blood analyses results to be compared with the ones taken before the cycle._

CHOLESTEROL TTL: 168 mg/dl (after: 179)
CHOLESTEROL HDL: 41 mg/dl (*after: 13*) (range >=40)
INDEX RISK HDL: 4,1 (*after: 13,76*) (range till 5)
CHOLESTEROL LDL: 105 mg/dl (*after: 157*) (range 130-159, elevated borderline)
BILIRUBIN TTL: *1,98* mg/dl (*after: 0,83*) (range 0,2-1)
BILIRUBIN DIRECT: 0,22 mg/dl (after: 0,1) (range 0,05-0,3)
BILIRUBIN INDIRECT: *1,76* mg/dl (*after: 0,73*) (range till 0,7)
CREATININE: 1,2 mg/dl (after: 1,2) (range 0,8-1,3)
AZOTEMIA: *49* mg/dl (*after: 62*) (range 15-40)
AMYLASE: 62 u/ltr (after: 55) (range 25-115)
TRANSAMINASE GPT/ALT: 41 u/ltr (*after: 86*) (range 30-65)
TRANSAMINASE GOT/AST: 21 u/ltr (*after: 55*) (range 15-37)
GAMMA (YGT): 28 u/ltr (after: 29) (range 15-85)

INSULIN : 3,34 micru/ml (after: 3,6) (range 1,9-23)
IGF1: (184) (range 96-424)
TESTOSTERONE TTL: 3,86 ng/ml (*after: 0,72*) (range 1,75-7,81)
TESTOSTERONE FREE: 11,7 pg/ml (*after: 5,2*) (range 8-47)
SHBG: 38 pg/ml (*after: 10*) (range 13-71)
FSH: 2,92 micru/ml (after: 2,09) (range 1,27-19,26)
LH: 3,80 miu/ml (after: 2,19) (range 1,24-8,62)
DHEAS: 191 mcg/dl (after: 209) (range 106-464)
HGH: 0,2 ng/ml (after: <0,1) (range 0,0-10)

*Day 19*

60 oxa – 3.125 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 20*

60 oxa – 3.332 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, 400 mg Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day 21*

60 oxa – 3.129 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, Headache, 2 gr Paracetamol, 500 mg Acetylcysteine Antibiotic, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.362

3RD WEEK NOTES
I understood that the best time to take oxandrolone is after the meals, not before or during, otherwise I get diarrhea and this apart from ingesting Liv.52.
Unfortunately, I got a bit sick yesterday and today is even worse. Every year I suffer from sinusitis which I hope to cure as fast as possible.
In regards of the results of blood analyses above reported, my bilirubin values decreased within the normal range, as expected. Oxandrolone seems "to cure" Gilberts's syndrome (which I have).
Of course, either LDL, HDL and Transaminase went up; as well as azotemia which was already a bit higher and surely it could not start declining during the cycle.
Strangely, creatinine stayed at the same level but this is good in relation with azotemia.
What I do not understand are the values related to LH, FSH and HGH compared with DHEAS. Hopefully my endocrinologist, if not someone in here before, will explain this issue.

----------


## BJJ

I am taking 2 gr of Paracetamol per day as well as 500 mg Acetylcysteine Antibiotic via fomentation inhalator.

There should be no adverse interaction with oxandrolone, except that both drugs used to treat sinusitis are metabolized by the liver!
Furthermore, I am not only losing mucus but also blood from my nose. Two days ago I received a blow with the knee in my face around the right zygoma. Perhaps, the blood is due by that but I am not sure abou it.

Anyone experienced anything similar or have any advices? Thank you, I appreciate it.

----------


## arch

damn that sucks i train bjj about 4-5xs a week soon to be a brown belt. what type of training are you doing to get knee'd in the head?

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## Noles12

I wish i responded to Var the way you are. Do you have any pics of your progress

----------


## BJJ

> damn that sucks i train bjj about 4-5xs a week soon to be a brown belt. what type of training are you doing to get knee'd in the head?


No training it was a fight. I was undertaken to an electric chair and to avoid the related submission I was hit.

----------


## BJJ

> I wish i responded to Var the way you are. Do you have any pics of your progress


Progress? Which progress!
I just got back to my natural limit, that's it.

No I will take them at the end.

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## Noles12

I was talking of the progress from the first pic to the 15 pounds later

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## BJJ

> I was talking of the progress from the first pic to the 15 pounds later


I understood but since I went back to my natural limit ONLY, I am just serious about it.

By the end of this week, the 4th, I am going to check my stats again.
Then, I'll see what oxandrolone was able to accomplish on my body.

----------


## BJJ

BOXED WARNINGS
PELIOSIS HEPATIS, A CONDITION IN WHICH LIVER AND SOMETIMES SPLENIC TISSUE IS REPLACED WITH BLOOD-FILLED CYSTS, HAS BEEN REPORTED IN PATIENTS RECEIVING ANDROGENIC ANABOLIC STEROID THERAPY. THESE CYSTS ARE SOMETIMES PRESENT WITH MINIMAL HEPATIC DYSFUNCTION, BUT AT OTHER TIMES THEY HAVE BEEN ASSOCIATED WITH LIVER FAILURE. THEY ARE OFTEN NOT RECOGNIZED UNTIL LIFE-THREATENING LIVER FAILURE OR INTRA-ABDOMINAL HEMORRHAGE DEVELOPS. WITHDRAWAL OF DRUG USUALLY RESULTS IN COMPLETE DISAPPEARANCE OF LESIONS. LIVER CELL TUMORS ARE ALSO REPORTED. MOST OFTEN THESE TUMORS ARE BENIGN AND ANDROGEN-DEPENDENT, BUT FATAL MALIGNANT TUMORS HAVE BEEN REPORTED. WITHDRAWAL OF DRUG OFTEN RESULTS IN REGRESSION OR CESSATION OF PROGRESSION OF THE TUMOR. HOWEVER, HEPATIC TUMORS ASSOCIATED WITH ANDROGENS OR ANABOLIC STEROIDS ARE MUCH MORE VASCULAR THAN OTHER HEPATIC TUMORS AND MAY BE SILENT UNTIL LIFE-THREATENING INTRA-ABDOMINAL HEMORRHAGE DEVELOPS. BLOOD LIPID CHANGES THAT ARE KNOWN TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH INCREASED RISK OF ATHEROSCLEROSIS ARE SEEN IN PATIENTS TREATED WITH ANDROGENS OR ANABOLIC STEROIDS . THESE CHANGES INCLUDE DECREASED HIGH-DENSITY LIPOPROTEINS AND SOMETIMES INCREASED LOW-DENSITY LIPOPROTEINS. THE CHANGES MAY BE VERY MARKED AND COULD HAVE A SERIOUS IMPACT ON THE RISK OF ATHEROSCLEROSIS AND CORONARY ARTERY DISEASE.

DESCRIPTION
Oxandrolone oral tablets contain 2.5 mg or 10 mg of the anabolic steroid oxandrolone. Oxandrolone is 17b-hydroxy-17a-methyl-2-oxa-5a-androstan-3-one with the following structural formula

Image:Str1 2.jpg
Molecular Formula: C19H30O3
Molecular Weight: 306.44

Inactive ingredients include: corn starch, lactose monohydrate, magnesium stearate, and hypromellose. USP Dissolution Test Pending.

CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY
Anabolic steroids are synthetic derivatives of testosterone . Certain clinical effects and adverse reactions demonstrate the androgenic properties of this class of drugs. Complete dissociation of anabolic and androgenic effects has not been achieved. The actions of anabolic steroids are therefore similar to those of male sex hormones with the possibility of causing serious disturbances of growth and sexual development if given to young children. Anabolic steroids suppress the gonadotropic functions of the pituitary and may exert a direct effect upon the testes.

During exogenous administration of anabolic androgens, endogenous testosterone release is inhibited through inhibition of pituitary luteinizing hormone (LH). At large doses, spermatogenesis may be suppressed through feedback inhibition of pituitary follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH).

Anabolic steroids have been reported to increase low-density lipoproteins and decrease high-density lipoproteins. These levels revert to normal on discontinuation of treatment.

INDICATIONS AND USAGE
Oxandrolone is indicated as adjunctive therapy to offset the protein catabolism associated with prolonged administration of corticosteroids, and for the relief of the bone pain frequently accompanying osteoporosis (see DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION).

DRUG ABUSE AND DEPENDENCE
Oxandrolone is classified as a controlled substance under the Anabolic Steroids Control Act of 1990 and has been assigned to Schedule III (non-narcotic).

CONTRAINDICATIONS
1. Known or suspected carcinoma of the prostate or the male breast.
2. Carcinoma of the breast in females with hypercalcemia (androgenic anabolic steroids may stimulate osteolytic bone resorption).
3. Pregnancy, because of possible masculinization of the fetus. Oxandrolone has been shown to cause embryotoxicity, fetotoxicity, infertility, and masculinization of female animal offspring when given in doses 9 times the human dose.
4. Nephrosis, the nephrotic phase of nephritis.
5. Hypercalcemia. 

WARNINGS
Cholestatic hepatitis and jaundice may occur with 17-alpha-alkylated androgens at a relatively low dose. If cholestatic hepatitis with jaundice appears or if liver function tests become abnormal, oxandrolone should be discontinued and the etiology should be determined. Drug-induced jaundice is reversible when the medication is discontinued.
In patients with breast cancer, anabolic steroid therapy may cause hypercalcemia by stimulating osteolysis. Oxandrolone therapy should bediscontinued if hypercalcemia occurs.
Edema with or without congestive heart failure may be a serious complication in patients with pre-existing cardiac, renal, or hepatic disease. Concomitant administration of adrenal cortical steroid or ACTH may increase the edema.
In children, androgen therapy may accelerate bone maturation without producing compensatory gain in linear growth. This adverse effect results in compromised adult height. The younger the child, the greater the risk of compromising final mature height. The effect on bone maturation should be monitored by assessing bone age of the left wrist and hand every 6 months (see PRECAUTIONS, LaboratoryTests).
Geriatric patients treated with androgenic anabolic steroids may be at an increased risk for the development of prostatic hypertrophy and prostatic carcinoma. ANABOLIC STEROIDS HAVE NOT BEEN SHOWN TO ENHANCE ATHLETIC ABILITY.

PRECAUTIONS
Concurrent dosing of oxandrolone and warfarin may result in unexpectedly large increases in the International Normalized Ratio (INR) or prothrombin time (PT). When oxandrolone is prescribed to patients being treated with warfarin, doses of warfarin may need to be decreased significantly to maintain the desirable INR level and diminish the risk of potentially serious bleeding (see PRECAUTIONS, Drug Interactions).

General
Women should be observed for signs of virilization (deepening of the voice, hirsutism, acne, clitor*****ly). Discontinuation of drug therapy at the time of evidence of mild virilism is necessary to prevent irreversible virilization. Some virilizing changes in women are irreversible even after prompt discontinuance of therapy and are not prevented by concomitant use of estrogens. Menstrual irregularities may also occur.
Anabolic steroids may cause suppression of clotting factors II, V, VII, and X, and an increase in prothrombin time.
Information for Patients
The physician should instruct patients to report immediately any use of warfarin and any bleeding.
The physician should instruct patients to report any of the following side effects of androgens:
Males: too frequent or persistent erections of the penis, appearance or aggravation of acne.
Females: hoarseness, acne, changes in menstrual periods, or more facial hair.
All patients: nausea, vomiting, changes in skin color, or ankle swelling.
Geriatric Use: certain geriatric use information is protected by marketing exclusivity.

Laboratory Tests
Women with disseminated breast carcinoma should have frequent determination of urine and serum calcium levels during the course of therapy (see WARNINGS).
Because of the hepatotoxicity associated with the use of 17-alpha-alkylated androgens, liver function tests should be obtained periodically.
Periodic (every 6 months) x-ray examinations of bone age should be made during treatment of children to determine the rate of bone maturation and the effects of androgen therapy on the epiphyseal centers.
Androgenic anabolic steroids have been reported to increase low-density lipoproteins and decrease high-density lipoproteins. Therefore, caution is required when administering these agents to patients with a history of cardiovascular disease or who are at risk for cardiovascular disease. Serum determination of lipid levels should be performed periodically and therapy adjusted accordingly.
Hemoglobin and hematocrit should be checked periodically for polycythemia in patients who are receiving high doses of anabolic steroids.

Drug Interactions
Anticoagulants: anabolic steroids may increase sensitivity to oral anticoagulants. Dosage of the anticoagulant may have to be decreased in order to maintain desired prothrombin time. Patients receiving oral anticoagulant therapy require close monitoring, especially when anabolic steroids are started or stopped.

Warfarin: a multidose study of oxandrolone, given as 5 or 10 mg BID in 15 healthy subjects concurrently treated with warfarin, resulted in a mean increase in S-warfarin half-life from 26 to 48 hours and AUC from 4.55 to 12.08 ng•hr/mL; similar increases in R-warfarin half-life and AUC were also detected. Microscopic hematuria (9/15) and gingival bleeding (1/15) were also observed. A 5.5-fold decrease in the mean warfarin dose from 6.13 mg/day to 1.13 mg/day (approximately 80-85% reduction of warfarin dose), was necessary to maintain a target INR of 1.5. When oxandrolone therapy is initiated in a patient already receiving treatment with warfarin, the INR or prothrombin time (PT) should be monitored closely and the dose of warfarin adjusted as necessary until a stable target INR or PT has been achieved.

Furthermore, in patients receiving both drugs, careful monitoring of the INR or PT, and adjustment of the warfarin dosage if indicated are recommended when the oxandrolone dose is changed or discontinued. Patients should be closely monitored for signs and symptoms of occult bleeding.
Oral Hypoglycemic Agents:

Oxandrolone may inhibit the metabolism of oral hypoglycemic agents.
Adrenal Steroids or ACTH: in patients with edema, concomitant administration with adrenal cortical steroids or ACTH may increase the edema.

Drug/Laboratory Test Interactions
Anabolic steroids may decrease levels of thyroxine-binding globulin, resulting in decreased total T4 serum levels and increased resin uptake of T3 and T4. Free thyroid hormone levels remain unchanged. In addition, a decrease in PBI and radioactive iodine uptake may occur.

Carcinogenesis, Mutagenesis, Impairment of Fertility
Animal Data: oxandrolone has not been tested in laboratory animals for carcinogenic or mutagenic effects. In 2-year chronic oral rat studies, a dose-related reduction of spermatogenesis and decreased organ weights (testes, prostate, seminal vesicles, ovaries, uterus, adrenals, and pituitary) were shown.

Human Data: liver cell tumors have been reported in patients receiving long-term therapy with androgenic anabolic steroids in high doses (see WARNINGS). Withdrawal of the drugs did not lead to regression of the tumors in all cases.

Geriatric patients treated with androgenic anabolic steroids may be at an increased risk for the development of prostatic hypertrophy and prostatic carcinoma.

Pregnancy
Teratogenic effects-Pregnancy Category X (see CONTRAINDICATIONS).

Nursing Mothers
It is not known whether anabolic steroids are excreted in human milk. Because of the potential of serious adverse reactions in nursing infants from oxandrolone, a decision should be made whether to discontinue nursing or to discontinue the drug, taking into account the importance of the drug to the mother.

Pediatric Use
Anabolic agents may accelerate epiphyseal maturation more rapidly than linear growth in children and the effect may continue for 6 months after the drug has been stopped. Therefore, therapy should be monitored by x-ray studies at 6-month intervals in order to avoid the risk of compromising adult height. Androgenic anabolic steroid therapy should be used very cautiously in children and only by specialists who are aware of the effects on bone maturation (see WARNINGS).

ADVERSE REACTIONS
Patients with moderate to severe COPD or COPD patients who are unresponsive to bronchodilators should be monitored closely for COPD exacerbation and fluid retention.
The following adverse reactions have been associated with use of anabolic steroids: hepatic, cholestatic jaundice with, rarely, hepatic necrosis and death. Hepatocellular neoplasms and peliosis hepatis with long-term therapy (see WARNINGS). Reversible changes in liver function tests also occur including increased bromsulfophthalein (BSP) retention, changes in alkaline phosphatase and increases in serum bilirubin, aspartate aminotransferase (AST, SGOT) and alanine aminotransferase (ALT, SGPT).

In Males
Prepubertal: Phallic enlargement and increased frequency or persistence of erections.
Postpubertal: Inhibition of testicular function, testicular atrophy and oligospermia, impotence, chronic priapism, epididymitis, and bladder irritability.

In Females
Clitoral enlargement, menstrual irregularities.

CNS
Habituation, excitation, insomnia, depression, and changes in libido.

Hematologic
Bleeding in patients on concomitant anticoagulant therapy.

Breast
Gynecomastia .

Larynx
Deepening of the voice in females.

Hair
Hirsutism and male pattern baldness in females.

Skin
Acne (especially in females and prepubertal males).

Skeletal
Premature closure of epiphyses in children (see PRECAUTIONS, Pediatric Use).

Fluid and Electrolytes
Edema, retention of serum electrolytes (sodium chloride, potassium, phosphate, calcium).

Metabolic/Endocrine
Decreased glucose tolerance (see PRECAUTIONS, Laboratory Tests), increased creatinine excretion, increased serum levels of creatinine phosphokinase (CPK). Masculinization of the fetus. Inhibition of gonadotropin secretion.

OVERDOSAGE
No symptoms or signs associated with overdosage have been reported. It is possible that sodium and water retention may occur.
The oral LD50 of oxandrolone in mice and dogs is greater than 5,000 mg/kg. No specific antidote is known, but gastric lavage may be used.

DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION
Therapy with anabolic steroids is adjunctive to and not a replacement for conventional therapy. The duration of therapy with oxandrolone will depend on the response of the patient and the possible appearance of adverse reactions. Therapy should be intermittent.

Adults
The response of individuals to anabolic steroids varies. The daily adult dosage is 2.5 mg to 20 mg given in 2 to 4 divided doses. The desired response may be achieved with as little as 2.5 mg or as much as 20 mg daily. A course of therapy of 2 to 4 weeks is usually adequate. This may be repeated intermittently as indicated.

Children
For children the total daily dosage of oxandrolone is <0.1 mg per kilogram body weight or <0.045 mg per pound of body weight. This may be repeated intermittently as indicated.

HOW SUPPLIED
Oxandrolone Tablets, USP are supplied as follows:
2.5 mg tablets: white, round, biconvex tablets, debossed with “K” and scored on one side and “200” on the other side.
Bottles of 100 (NDC 49884-301-01)
10 mg tablets: white, capsule shaped, biconvex tablets, debossed with “201” on one side and debossed with “K” on the other side.
Bottles of 60 (NDC 49884-302-02)
Store at 20°-25° C (68°-77°F) [see USP Controlled Room Temperature].
Manufactured by:
Par Pharmaceutical Companies, Inc.
Spring Valley, NY 10977
Revised: 03/07
OS301-01-1-02

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## Western Man

Any dizziness or confusion with this cycle BJJ?

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## BJJ

> Any dizziness or confusion with this cycle BJJ?


Not so far I would say.
Why, is it common with anavar ?

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## BJJ

Sinusitis was broken down already.
It just took me 2 days while I thought, being on cycle, I needed more than usual.
Last year I needed 4 days to recover, so not bad at all.

Also, today my total Kcal intake is going to be more than 5.000 and would like to keep all this week, the last one before proviron , around 4.500 daily.

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## thai-lan

lol so this is your bulking cycle??b/c 5000kcal alot for a cutting cycle and no wonder why you put bodyfat on

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## BJJ

> lol so this is your bulking cycle??b/c 5000kcal alot for a cutting cycle and no wonder why you put bodyfat on


never spoke about "cutting" cycle.

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## Western Man

I've experienced similar weight gain on my anavar cycle. My maintenance diet has to be tweeked some because I gained over 5 lbs the first week at 40mgs/day.

Weight used to range from 206-211lbs based on time of day. I was in that range for a year or so. I now range from 214-219 based on time of day.

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## BJJ

> I've experienced similar weight gain on my anavar cycle. My maintenance diet has to be tweeked some because I gained over 5 lbs the first week at 40mgs/day.
> 
> Weight used to range from 206-211lbs based on time of day. I was in that range for a year or so. I now range from 214-219 based on time of day.


Interesting, then I am no the only one.
How much weight have you put over your previous limit?
Also, how about your pct? when did you start it and what did you take?

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## Western Man

> Interesting, then I am no the only one.
> How much weight have you put over your previous limit?
> Also, how about your pct? when did you start it and what did you take?


I've been as high as 230 before but that was many years ago.

Haven't finished cycle but will run clomid and nolva day after last var dose.

Nolva 40/20/20/20
Clomid 100/50/50/50

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## BJJ

> ... Also, how is your diet (carb/pro/fat)?


BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate): 2.000 Kcal (presently 2.300).
Average daily calories about 3.600 Kcal (presently 4.000).

I always try to keep the ratio between proteins and carbs around 0,75.
Daily diet consists in:

340 gr of Protides (11,99 oz)
95 gr of Lipides (3,35 oz)
450 gr of Glucides (15,87 oz)

The above reported macro nutrients weights (PLG) are effective, meaning what the organism is able to digest.

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## BJJ

Today afternoon I'll receive the responses to my blood analyses.
If the hormonal situation gives me the possibility, I'll sudden up the oxandrolone dose to 80 mg ed, instead of 60.
Also, I am considering to split the doses in three times daily instead of two as done so far.
But again, I need to see what really happened to my inner glands and mostly the liver.
In this case, I'll also keep the schedule to add mesterolone starting from the next week, the 5th.

These are the pre-cycle results and the ones I am awaiting for:

CHOLESTEROL TTL: 168 mg/dl (?)
CHOLESTEROL HDL: 41 mg/dl (?)
INDEX RISK HDL: 4,1 (?)
CHOLESTEROL LDL: 105 mg/dl (?)
BILIRUBIN TTL: *1,98* mg/dl (?)
BILIRUBIN DIRECT: 0,22 mg/dl (?)
BILIRUBIN INDIRECT: *1,76* mg/dl (?)
CREATININE: 1,2 mg/dl (?)
AZOTEMIA: *49* mg/dl (?)
AMYLASE: 62 u/ltr (?)
TRANSAMINASE GPT/ALT: 41 u/ltr (?)
GAMMA (YGT): 28 u/ltr (?)

INSULIN : 3,34 micru/ml (?)
IGF1: (?)
TESTOSTERONE TTL: 3,86 ng/ml (?)
TESTOSTERONE FREE: 11,7 pg/ml (?)
SHBG: 38 pg/ml (?)
FSH: 2,92 micru/ml (?)
LH: 3,80 miu/ml (?)
DHEAS: 191 mcg/dl (?)
HGH: 0,2 ng/ml (?)

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## Wally24

Whats the PCT regimen for the Var only cycle BJJ??

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## elpropiotorvic

> Whats the PCT regimen for the Var only cycle BJJ??


Begining of the thread

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## BJJ

> Whats the PCT regimen for the Var only cycle BJJ??


In case hormonal parameters, checked during and before pct, are within a certain range:

PCT (11/18/2009 - 12/01/2009)
Week 9-10 Clomiphene 50 mg ed (ttl 700 mg), before bed


Otherwise (1):

PCT (11/18/2009 - 12/15/2009)
Week 9-12 Clomiphene 50/50/50/50 mg ed (ttl 700 mg), before bed
Week 9-12 Tamoxifen 40/20/20/20 mg ed (ttl 700 mg), breakfast

Otherwise (2):

PCT (11/18/2009 - 12/15/2009)
Week 9-12 Clomiphene 100/50/50/50 mg ed (ttl 1.750 mg), before bed
Week 9-12 Tamoxifen 40/20/20/20 mg ed (ttl 700 mg), breakfast

It all depends by my blood results.

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## BJJ

> Begining of the thread


thank you!!!

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## BJJ

> Whats the PCT regimen for the Var only cycle BJJ??


It is not a var only cycle.
I'll add mesterolone by the 5th week.

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## BJJ

CHOLESTEROL TTL: 168 mg/dl (after: 179)
CHOLESTEROL HDL: 41 mg/dl (after: *13*) (range >=40)
INDEX RISK HDL: 4,1 (after: *13,76*) (range till 5)
CHOLESTEROL LDL: 105 mg/dl (after: *157*) (range 130-159, elevated borderline)
BILIRUBIN TTL: *1,98* mg/dl (after: *0,83*) (range 0,2-1)
BILIRUBIN DIRECT: 0,22 mg/dl (after: 0,1) (range 0,05-0,3)
BILIRUBIN INDIRECT: *1,76* mg/dl (after: *0,73*) (range till 0,7)
CREATININE: 1,2 mg/dl (after: 1,2) (range 0,8-1,3)
AZOTEMIA: *49* mg/dl (after: *62*) (range 15-40)
AMYLASE: 62 u/ltr (after: 55) (range 25-115)
TRANSAMINASE GPT/ALT: 41 u/ltr (after: *86*) (range 30-65)
TRANSAMINASE GOT/AST: 21 u/ltr (after: *55*) (range 15-37)
GAMMA (YGT): 28 u/ltr (after: 29) (range 15-85)

INSULIN : 3,34 micru/ml (after: 3,6) (range 1,9-23)
IGF1: (184) (range 96-424)
TESTOSTERONE TTL: 3,86 ng/ml (after: *0,72*) (range 1,75-7,81)
TESTOSTERONE FREE: 11,7 pg/ml (after: *5,2*) (range 8-47)
SHBG: 38 pg/ml (after: *10*) (range 13-71)
FSH: 2,92 micru/ml (after: 2,09) (range 1,27-19,26)
LH: 3,80 miu/ml (after: 2,19) (range 1,24-8,62)
DHEAS: 191 mcg/dl (after: 209) (range 106-464)
HGH: 0,2 ng/ml (after: <0,1) (range 0,0-10)

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## ghettoboyd

is the red your leves pre cycle?.....

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## BJJ

I'll make it clear...

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## BJJ

> I'm wondering... Why no Test? You mentioned risks and reasons in the other thread, what are they?


Because I have The Gilbert's syndrome.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert%27s_syndrome

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## BJJ

So basically, my bilirubin values decreased within the normal range, as expected.
Oxandrolone seems to cure Gilberts's syndrome, my eyeballs are now white as never before.

Of course, either LDL and Transaminase went up.
Azotemia was already up and surely it could not start declining.
Strangely, creatinine stayed at the same level but this is good related to azotemia.

What I do not understand are the values related to LH, FSH and HGH compared with DHEAS.

Anyone able to explain this?

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## XNathan

Bilirubin is strongest antioxidant in human body. Decrease is becouse your liver consumend a large portion of bilirubine to reduce oxidation stress from oxandrolone.

Gilbert sy isnt bad its good! Atherosclerosis in a. carotis occure in critical degree 25 yr later than in normal people! And Gilberts has 80% less chance to have coronary heart disease.

Its more than good to have high bilirubine and yellow eyes? Small price for longer and better life.

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## BJJ

> Bilirubin is strongest antioxidant in human body. Decrease is becouse your liver consumend a large portion of bilirubine to reduce oxidation stress from oxandrolone.
> 
> Gilbert sy isnt bad its good! Atherosclerosis in a. carotis occure in critical degree 25 yr later than in normal people! And Gilberts has 80% less chance to have coronary heart disease.
> 
> Its more than good to have high bilirubine and yellow eyes? Small price for longer and better life.


Thank you for your response and related info, I'll check those out.
BJJ

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## BJJ

> Bilirubin is strongest antioxidant in human body. Decrease is becouse your liver consumend a large portion of bilirubine to reduce oxidation stress from oxandrolone.
> 
> Gilbert sy isnt bad its good! Atherosclerosis in a. carotis occure in critical degree 25 yr later than in normal people! And Gilberts has 80% less chance to have coronary heart disease.
> 
> Its more than good to have high bilirubine and yellow eyes? Small price for longer and better life.


Have you got any clues regarding my other question?... LH/FSH/HGH

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## BJJ

> is the red your leves pre cycle?.....


So, to answer your question the red levels are the "badly" increased ones.
Some of those were higher even before starting the cycle.

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## BJJ

Today I added Tribulus to my diet (3 gr daily, breakfast/dinner) to see whether it can help with the low test.

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## BJJ

> Bilirubin is strongest antioxidant in human body. Decrease is becouse your liver consumend a large portion of bilirubine to reduce oxidation stress from oxandrolone.
> 
> Gilbert sy isnt bad its good! Atherosclerosis in a. carotis occure in critical degree 25 yr later than in normal people! And Gilberts has 80% less chance to have coronary heart disease.
> 
> Its more than good to have high bilirubine and yellow eyes? Small price for longer and better life.


Confirmed that problems related to high bilirubin are solved during an oxandrolone cycle, the issue remains to see whether once the drug is out of the body completely and proper pct done, the above reported levels keep staying within the normal ranges or not, going back to the bad side.

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## BJJ

I decided to anticipate the use of Mesterolone (50 mg daily) at day 26, instead of waiting the beginning of 5th week, day 29.

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## BJJ

Click Drug Name to View Profile: Anavar

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## ghettoboyd

> So, to answer your question the red levels are the "badly" increased ones.
> Some of those were higher even before starting the cycle.


oh ok bro......i get it know thanx...

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## BJJ

Pharmaceutical Name: Mesterolone
Chemical Name: 1 alpha-methyl-17 beta-hydroxy-5 alpha-androstan-3-one
Empirical Formula: C20H32O2
Anabolic /Androgenic Ratio: 100-150/30-40
Half Life: 12 Hours
Average Dose: 25-200mg/day
Trade Names: Proviron , Androviron, Testiwo

Description:
Proviron (mesterolone) is basically an orally active DHT (dihydrotestosterone) preparation. For comparision, we can think of some other orally prepared DHT compounds like Winstrol , Anavar , etc. Those both act very similarly in mechanism to Proviron, but a more accurate way to think of this compound is as something like Oral Masteron . As Im sure you noticed, their anabolic/androgenic ratio is very similar. Remember, DHT is 3 to 4 times as androgenic as testosterone and is, of course, incapable of forming estrogen. Also, Proviron is quite unique in that a simple look at its 4-ring structure will show us that it is not going to be too liver toxic, since it is not c17-Alpha-Alkylated, as many orals are. This modification (lacking in Proviron) makes drugs more liver toxic. Proviron has a 1-metyhl group added, instead--looks pretty great on paper, right? Well, as usual, things tend to look better on paper than they do in the body. Your body has a negative feedback loop which prevents it from having too much DHT floating around (if youve been paying attention up to now, you already know this). An excess of DHT will eventually be changed into another (largely not anabolic) compound.

So lets go back to the comparison with being some sort of Oral Masteron. Basically Proviron is 5-alpha reduced and not capable of forming estrogen. More importantly, however, it has a very high affinity for binding to the aromatase enzyme (the enzyme responsible for converting all that good testosterone in your body into all that nasty estrogen). That means if you choose to take Proviron with testosterone (and I know you wouldnt even be doing a cycle without including some form of testosterone) and/or any aromatizable steroid , it should actually serve to prevent estrogen build up by the aforementioned binding to the aromatase enzyme, which prevents aromatase from doing its dirty work and making a bunch of estrogen out of the other steroids you are taking. It should also be noted that Proviron also binds very well to SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin, a hormone responsible for reducing the amount of circulating free testosterone in your body) (1). As a matter of fact, in the last study I read, it bound to SHBG better than any other drug studied.

Also, Id like to note that Proviron bound to the anabolic receptor better than any oral anabolic (except for the insanely toxic methyltrienolone ), better than testosterone, but not as well as Nandrolone (1). Unfortunately, as we know, DHT also has a high affinity for binding to receptors in the scalp and prostate, causing some possible nasty side effects, like male pattern baldness and prostate enlargement. Its important to remember that DHT and DHT derived compounds are used quite successfully to treat gynecomastia , and in this area, Proviron is no different.

Lets delve into some of the positive points of this drug before we go any farther. androgen receptors are found in fat cells as well as muscle cells (5), and while they act on the AR in muscle cells to promote growth, they also act directly on the AR in fat cells to affect fat burning (9)(3). The stronger the androgen binds to the AR, the higher the lipolytic (fat burning) effect on adipose (fat) tissue (6)(2). As if thats not enough good news, some steroids (notably, testosterone) even increase the numbers of ARs in muscle and fat (9)(7). Thus, if you are taking a simple stack of proviron and testosterone, youll have more of the Test you shoot as free testosterone floating around building muscle (compliments of the Proviron) and more androgen receptors to be bound to (compliments of your testosterone) by your Proviron, thus causing more fat loss. Testosterone and Proviron is a very nice synergistic stack, pretty nearly an ideal stack of an oral and injectable, because both drugs will actually act to enhance each other.

So what we have here is a steroid that can basically make other steroids more effective by preventing their conversion into estrogen, as well as increasing the amount of circulating free testosterone in your body. This of course all provides a more hardened and quality look to muscles. Proviron is very much a synergistic drug in this respect, and its inclusion in any cycle would definitely make all of the other steroids perform better, and provide better gains. This is all compounded by the fact that Proviron is a very lipolytic (fat-burning) drug.

Now, as if all of this werent enough, lets talk about how Proviron affects your HPTA (hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular-axis), the thing that regulates the male hormonal system. When a reasonable dose of this stuff is given (100-150mgs/day), it had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels (6). Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH) and Leutenizing Hormone (LH) are two hormones that send a signal to your testes to produce testosterone. Thus, by not suppressing those hormones, your normal testosterone levels will remain intact. This points to a novel use for this compound during post-cycle-therapy: a non-suppressive bridge between cycles. In fact, in yet another study, administration of Proviron (basically the same dose as in the last study) produced no changes in steroids, thyroid hormones, gonadotropins or PRL (prolactin levelsyou want those to remain low) (8).

Unfortunately, this stuff is not too hot on its own. Its a good drug for inclusion in a cycle containing testosterone and other armoatizable steroids, and its a good drug for a possible bridge between cycles. Alone, however, as an androgenic or anabolic agent its effects have been very weak in both studies (9), as well as in the experience of everyone I spoke to about it. This may be due to the addition of the 1-methyl-group to DHT, which makes this stuff orally active. Whatever the case, as a stand-alone anabolic or androgenic compound, its not too impressive.

This drug is a rare find on the black market, and many underground labs do not produce it, but if you can find it, Id say that you shouldnt be paying more than .50 cents for each 50mg tab.

Heres how your body metabolizes Mesterolone: *(pic)*

Mesterolone References:
1. Relative binding affinity of anabolic-androgenic steroids: comparison of the binding to the androgen receptors in skeletal muscle and in prostate, as well as to sex hormonebinding globulin.Endocrinology. 1984 Jun;114(6):2100-6.
2. APMIS. 2000 Dec;108(12):838-46.
3. (Xu X, et al. "The effects of androgens on the regulation of lipolysis in adipose precursor cells." Endocrinology 1990 Feb;126(2):1229 ).
4. J Anim Sci. 1992 Nov;70(11):3381-90.
5. Am J Physiol. 1998 Jun;274(6 Pt 1):C1645-52.
6. The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.Int J Gynaecol Obstet. 1988 Feb;26(1):121-8.
7. J Appl. Physiol.94 1153-61 2003
8. Effect of non aromatizable androgens on LHRH and TRH responses in primary testicular failure.Horm Metab Res. 1984 Sep;16(9):492-7.
9. [Androgen substitution in the andrological disease picture] Andrologia. 1983 May-Jun;15(3):283-6. German.

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## elpropiotorvic

i wanna know about the lh/fsh/hgh someone?

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## BJJ

.....

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## BJJ

.....

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## BJJ

Anavar , Oxandrin.
Unlike most oral steroids , which are Class II steroids giving most of their anabolic effect by means other than the androgen receptor (AR), it seems that oxandrolone probably does have good binding to the AR, and is therefore a Class I steroid , while having little other effect. By itself it is considered to be a weak anabolic.

Partly this is due to its apparent lack of non-AR-mediated activity. This can be corrected of course by stacking with a Class II steroid such as Dianabol , Anadrol ®, 4-AD, or nor-4-AD: the latter two steroids require high blood levels which are not obtained by oral use of the powders.

The other part of the reason for this is that bodybuilders make unfortunate and unreasonable comparisons when judging anabolic steroids . If say 8 tablets per day does little, then the drug is pronounced useless or weak by the user. But that is only 20 mg/day, or 140 mg/week. Does 140 mg/week testosterone give much results? No. Few anabolic steroids give dramatic results at that dose. Per milligram the potency is reasonable, but each individual tablet is weak because the dosage is small.

Because of its high price, very few bodybuilders have taken large doses of oxandrolone. There is a single case in the medical literature (Forbes et al.) where it is reported that a competitive athlete self-administered 150 mg oxandrolone per day with remarkable gains. This is of uncertain credibility because unless urinalysis was done to verify that no other steroids were taken, there is no way to be certain that the athlete did not actually take more drugs than he reported. In any case, at current prices, only the quite wealthy could afford such a dose. I personally have tried 150 mg/day and considered it somewhat effective, but not dramatically so, and not a preferred regimen.

Oxandrolone does not aromatize or convert to DHT, and has a longer half life than Dianabol - 8 hours vs. 4 hours. Thus, a moderate dose taken in the morning is largely out of the system by night, yet supplies reasonable levels of androgen during the day and early evening.

Oxandrolone shares the liver toxicity problems common to 17-alkylated steroids. At one time it was thought that it did not, but both clinical and practical experience with Oxandrin has shown that at doses of 40 mg/day and higher, liver toxicity is indeed an issue with prolonged use.

Primobolan , I believe, should be considered a superior compound, offering the same activity at (usually) a lower price and without the alkylated-toxicity issue.

Oxandrolone is the chemical name of active ingredient in Oxandrin and Anavar. Oxandrin is a registered trademark of Bio-Technology General Corp. in the United States and/or other countries. Anavar was originally the registered trademark of Searle Laboratories.

Substance name: Oxandrolone [USAN:INN]
Chemical name: 17ß-hydroxy-17a-methyl-2-oxa-5a-androstan-3-one
Systematic name:N/A
Index name: 2-Oxaandrostan-3-one, 17-hydroxy-17-methyl-, (5alpha,17beta)-CAS number 53-39-4
Merck Index Number: Merck 11, 6875
Molecular formula: C19-H30-O3
Molecular weight: 306.443 g/mol
Legal status: Prescription only (US); DEA Schedule III (US)
Routes of administration: Oral

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## BJJ

Proviron (mesterolone) is an interesting anabolic steroid , though it is not of much value to bodybuilding.

It seems that the most common reason for many to consider including it in a steroid stack is for anti-estrogenic activity. In the days before anti-aromatases and the use of SERMs (selective estrogen receptor modulators) such as Clomid and Nolvadex , there was some merit to this. An amount of aromatizing steroid marginally over the amount that would be tolerable without Proviron became tolerable with the inclusion of it.

However, the effect is indeed only marginal, and much better anti-estrogenic agents now exist. When these are used, there is no need for Proviron as an anti-estrogen.

The mechanism by which it has some effectiveness in this regard is from binding weakly to the estrogen receptor without activating it, and to the aromatase enzyme. In the first case, this partially reduces the number of receptor sites momentarily available to bind estrogen, thus reducing estrogenic activity. In the second case, some fraction of aromatase molecules at any given moment are unavailable to bind and convert testosterone , their binding sites being occupied with mesterolone.

The second most common reason is probably to address a fear that libido might be lost without it. It is true that when added to normal androgen levels, Proviron has an androgenic effect that in many cases improves libido. However, most anabolic steroids also have this same property. In a steroid cycle, adding Proviron accomplishes nothing further. Or in the case of anabolic steroids such as nandrolone (Deca ) which for other reasons may adversely affect libido, Proviron provides no greater help against that than do various other anabolic steroids.

One of the interesting things about Proviron is that while it assays (tests) as being an effective anabolic in the rat, it is virtually useless for building muscle in man. This may be due to enhanced conversion in muscle tissue to the diol, but it may instead be due to some unknown reason.

Another interesting thing is that it enjoys some practical use as a pro-sexual agent inbetween cycles. Typically 50 mg is taken shortly before improved performance is expected to be useful.

Contrary to common belief, Proviron is somewhat inhibitory of the HPTA. Using it during the recovery phase as part of post-cycle therapy is counterproductive. It is also inadvisable for this reason to use it continuously while intending to be off-cycle, but occasional recreational use presents no problem.

Proviron has been used in female bodybuilding, but it has almost undoubtedly the worst ratio of anabolic effect to virilizing effect of any anabolic steroid in common use. The perceived value is in fat loss and “hardening,” but friendlier choices exist for this. Most of that value is from anti-estrogenic effect, which Nolvadex can also accomplish. And for an androgen component, there are better choices, including Primobolan .

Unlike almost all other orals, Proviron is not hepatotoxic, as it is not 17-alkylated.

Tablets are typically 25 mg, and taken one or two at a time. Amounts greater than this have no further effect on improving libido off-cycle, but if used for a specific occasion, whether on-cycle or off-cycle, may temporarily improve vascularity, if it is already noticeable but has room for improvement.

Mesterolone is the chemical name of active ingredient in Proviron. Proviron was a registered trademark of Schering AG in the United States and/or other countries prior to cancellation.

Substance name: Mesterolone [USAN]
Chemical name: Androstan-3-one, 17-hydroxy-1-methyl-, (1alpha,5alpha,17beta)
Systematic name IUPAC: (1S,5S,8R,9S,10R,13S,14S,17S)-17-hydroxy-1,10,13-trimethyl-1,2,4,5,6,7,8,9,11,12,14,15,16,17-tetradecahydrocyclopenta[a]phenanthren-3-one
CAS number: 1424-00-6
Merck Index Number: Merck 11, 5817
Chemical formula: C20-H32-O2
Molecular weight: 304.467 g/mol
Bioavailability: ?
Metabolism: Hepatic
Elimination half-life: ?
Excretion: Urinary (90%); Fecal (6%)
Pregnancy category: X
Legal status: Illegal (US); DEA Schedule III (US)
Routes of administration: Oral

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## BJJ

Oxandrolone

International Programme on Chemical Safety
Poisons Information Monograph 913
Pharmaceutical

This monograph does not contain all of the sections completed. This
mongraph is harmonised with the Group monograph on Anabolic Steroids 
(PIM G007).

1. NAME

1.1 Substance

Oxandrolone

1.2 Group

ATC Classification:
A14 (Anabolic Agents for Systemic Use)
A14A (Anabolic steroids )

1.3 Synonyms

NSC-67068; SC-11585

1.4 Identification numbers

1.4.1 CAS number

53-39-4

1.4.2 Other numbers

1.5 Main brand names, main trade names

1.6 Main manufacturers, main importers

2. SUMMARY

2.1 Main risks and target organs

There is no serious risk from acute poisoning, but
chronic use can cause harm. The main risks are those of
excessive androgens: menstrual irregularities and
virilization in women and impotence, premature cardiovascular
disease and prostatic hypertrophy in men. Both men and women
can suffer liver damage with oral anabolic steroids
containing a substituted 17-alpha-carbon. Psychiatric changes
can occur during use or after cessation of these
agents.

2.2 Summary of clinical effects

Acute overdosage can produce nausea and gastrointestinal
upset. Chronic usage is thought to cause an increase in
muscle bulk, and can cause an exageration of male
characteristics and effects related to male hormones.
Anabolic steroids can influence sexual function. They can
also cause cardiovascular and hepatic damage. Acne and male-
pattern baldness occur in both sexes; irregular menses,
atrophy of the breasts, and clitor*****ly in women; and
testicular atrophy and prostatic hypertrophy in men.

2.3 Diagnosis

The diagnosis depends on a history of use of oral or
injected anabolic steroids, together with signs of increased
muscle bulk, commonly seen in "body-builders". Biochemical
tests of liver function are often abnormal in patients who
take excessive doses of oral anabolic steroids.

Laboratory analyses of urinary anabolic steroids and their
metabolites can be helpful in detecting covert use of these
drugs.

2.4 First aid measures and management principles

Supportive care is the only treatment necessary or
appropriate for acute intoxication. Chronic (ab)users can be
very reluctant to cease abuse, and may require professional
help as with other drug misuse.

3. PHYSICO-CHEMICAL PROPERTIES

3.1 Origin of the substance

Naturally-occuring anabolic steroids are synthesised in
the testis, ovary and adrenal gland from cholesterol via
pregnenolone. Synthetic anabolic steroids are based on the
principal male hormone testosterone , modified in one of three
ways:

alkylation of the 17-carbon
esterification of the 17-OH group
modification of the steroid nucleus

(Murad & Haynes, 1985).

3.2 Chemical structure

Chemical Name:
17beta-Hydroxy-17alpha-methyl-2-oxa-5alpha-androstan-3-one


Molecular Formula: C19H30O3

Molecular Weight: 306.4

3.3 Physical properties

3.3.1 Colour

White

3.3.2 State/form

Solid-crystal

3.3.3 Description

Soluble 1 in 5200 of water, 1 in 57 of alcohol,
 1 in 69 of acetone, 1 in less than 5 of chloroform,
and 1 in 860 of ether.

3.4 Other characteristics

3.4.1 Shelf-life of the substance

3.4.2 Storage conditions

Protect from light.

Vials for parenteral administration should be stored
at room temperature (15 to 30°C). Visual inspection
for particulate and/or discoloration is
advisable.

4. USES

4.1 Indications

4.1.1 Indications

Anabolic agent; systemic
Anabolic steroid
Androstan derivative; anabolic steroid
Estren derivative; anabolic steroid
Other anabolic agent
Anabolic agent for systemic use; veterinary
Anabolic steroid; veterinary
Estren derivative; veterinary

4.1.2 Description

The only legitimate therapeutic indications for
anabolic steroids are:


(a) replacement of male sex steroids in men who have
androgen deficiency, for example as a result of loss
of both testes

(b) the treatment of certain rare forms of aplastic
anaemia which are or may be responsive to anabolic
androgens.

(ABPI Data Sheet Compendium, 1993)

(c) the drugs have been used in certain countries to
counteract catabolic states, for example after major
trauma.

4.2 Therapeutic dosage

4.2.1 Adults

4.2.2 Children

Not applicable

4.3 Contraindications

Known or suspected cancer of the prostate or (in men)
breast.
Pregnancy or breast-feeding.
Known cardiovascular disease is a relative contraindication.

5. ROUTES OF EXPOSURE

5.1 Oral

Anabolic steroids can be absorbed from the
gastrointestinal tract, but many compounds undergo such
extensive first-pass metabolism in the liver that they are
inactive. Those compounds in which substitution of the 17-
carbon protects the compound from the rapid hepatic
metabolism are active orally (Murad and Haynes, 1985).
There are preparations of testosterone that can be taken
sublingually.

5.2 Inhalation

Not relevant

5.3 Dermal

No data available

5.4 Eye

Not relevant

5.5 Parenteral

Intramuscular or deep subcutaneous injection is the
principal route of administration of all the anabolic
steroids except the 17-alpha-substituted steroids which are
active orally.

5.6 Other

Not relevant

6. KINETICS

6.1 Absorption by route of exposure

The absorption after oral dosing is rapid for
testosterone and probably for other anabolic steroids, but
there is extensive first-pass hepatic metabolism for all
anabolic steroids except those that are substituted at the
17-alpha position.

The rate of absorption from subcutaneous or intramuscular
depots depends on the product and its formulation. Absorption
is slow for the lipid-soluble esters such as the cypionate or
enanthate , and for oily suspensions.

6.2 Distribution by route of exposure

The anabolic steroids are highly protein bound, and is
carried in plasma by a specific protein called sex-hormone
binding globulin.

6.3 Biological half-life by route of exposure

The metabolism of absorbed drug is rapid, and the
elimination half-life from plasma is very short. The duration
of the biological effects is therefore determined almost
entirely by the rate of absorption from subcutaneous or
intramuscular depots, and on the de-esterification which
precedes it (Wilson, 1992).

6.4 Metabolism

Free (de-esterified) anabolic androgens are metabolized
by hepatic mixed function oxidases (Wilson, 1992).

6.5 Elimination by route of exposure

After administration of radiolabelled testosterone,
about 90% of the radioactivity appears in the urine, and 6%
in the faeces; there is some enterohepatic recirculation
(Wilson, 1992).

7. PHARMACOLOGY AND TOXICOLOGY

7.1 Mode of action

7.1.1 Toxicodynamics

The toxic effects are an exaggeration of the
normal pharmacological effects.

7.1.2 Pharmacodynamics

Anabolic steroids bind to specific receptors
present especially in reproductive tissue, muscle and
fat (Mooradian & Morley, 1987). The anabolic steroids
reduce nitrogen excretion from tissue breakdown in
androgen deficient men. They are also responsible for
normal male sexual differentiation. The ratio of
anabolic ("body-building") effects to androgenic 
(virilizing) effects may differ among the members of
the class, but in practice all agents possess both
properties to some degree. There is no clear evidence
that anabolic steroids enhance overall athletic
performance (Elashoff et al, 1991).

7.2 Toxicity

7.2.1 Human data

7.2.1.1 Adults

No data available.

7.2.1.2 Children

No data available.

7.2.2 Relevant animal data

No data available.

7.2.3 Relevant in vitro data

No data

7.3 Carcinogenicity

Anabolic steroids may be carcinogenic. They can
stimulate growth of sex-hormone dependent tissue, primarily
 the prostate gland in men. Precocious prostatic cancer has
been described after long-term anabolic steroid abuse (Roberts
& Essenhigh, 1986). Cases where hepatic cancers have been
associated with anabolic steroid abuse have been reported
(Overly et al, 1984).

7.4 Teratogenicity

Androgen ingestion by a pregnant mother can cause
virilization of a female fetus (Dewhurst & Gordon,
1984).

7.5 Mutagenicity

No data available.

7.6 Interactions

No data available.

7.7 Main adverse effects

The adverse effects of anabolic steroids include weight
gain, fluid retention, and abnormal liver function as
measured by biochemical tests. Administration to children can
cause premature closure of the epiphyses. Men can develop
impotence and azoospermia. Women are at risk of
virilization.

8. TOXICOLOGICAL ANALYSES AND BIOMEDICAL INVESTIGATIONS

8.1 Material sampling plan
8.1.1 Sampling and specimen collection
8.1.1.1 Toxicological analyses
8.1.1.2 Biomedical analyses
8.1.1.3 Arterial blood gas analysis
8.1.1.4 Haematological analyses
8.1.1.5 Other (unspecified) analyses
8.1.2 Storage of laboratory samples and specimens
8.1.2.1 Toxicological analyses
8.1.2.2 Biomedical analyses
8.1.2.3 Arterial blood gas analysis
8.1.2.4 Haematological analyses
8.1.2.5 Other (unspecified) analyses
8.1.3 Transport of laboratory samples and specimens
8.1.3.1 Toxicological analyses
8.1.3.2 Biomedical analyses
8.1.3.3 Arterial blood gas analysis
8.1.3.4 Haematological analyses
8.1.3.5 Other (unspecified) analyses
8.2 Toxicological Analyses and Their Interpretation
8.2.1 Tests on toxic ingredient(s) of material
8.2.1.1 Simple Qualitative Test(s)
8.2.1.2 Advanced Qualitative Confirmation Test(s)
8.2.1.3 Simple Quantitative Method(s)
8.2.1.4 Advanced Quantitative Method(s)

8.2.2 Tests for biological specimens
8.2.2.1 Simple Qualitative Test(s)
8.2.2.2 Advanced Qualitative Confirmation Test(s)
8.2.2.3 Simple Quantitative Method(s)
8.2.2.4 Advanced Quantitative Method(s)
8.2.2.5 Other Dedicated Method(s)
8.2.3 Interpretation of toxicological analyses
8.3 Biomedical investigations and their interpretation
8.3.1 Biochemical analysis
8.3.1.1 Blood, plasma or serum
8.3.1.2 Urine
8.3.1.3 Other fluids
8.3.2 Arterial blood gas analyses
8.3.3 Haematological analyses
8.3.4 Interpretation of biomedical investigations

8.4 Other biomedical (diagnostic) investigations and their
interpretation

8.5 Overall Interpretation of all toxicological analyses and
 toxicological investigations

Biomedical analysis
The following tests can be relevant in the investigation of
chronic anabolic steroid abuse:
a) full blood count
b) electrolytes and renal function tests
c) hepatic function tests
d) testosterone
e) Lutenizing hormone
f) prostatic acid phosphatase or prostate related antigen
g) blood glucose concentration
h) cholesterol concentration

Toxicological analysis
-urinary analysis for anabolic steroids and their
metabolites

Other investigations
-electrocardiogram

8.6 References

9. CLINICAL EFFECTS

9.1 Acute poisoning

9.1.1 Ingestion

Nausea and vomiting can occur.

9.1.2 Inhalation

Not relevant

9.1.3 Skin exposure

Not relevant

9.1.4 Eye contact

Not relevant

9.1.5 Parenteral exposure

Patients are expected to recover rapidly after
acute overdosage, but there are few data. "Body-
builders" use doses many times the standard
therapeutic doses for these compounds but do not
suffer acute toxic effects.

9.1.6 Other

Not relevant

9.2 Chronic poisoning

9.2.1 Ingestion

Hepatic damage, manifest as derangement of
biochemical tests of liver function and sometimes
severe enough to cause jaundice; virilization in
women; prostatic hypertrophy, impotence and
azoospermia in men; acne, abnormal lipids, premature
cardiovascular disease (including stroke and
myocardial infarction), abnormal glucose tolerance,
and muscular hypertrophy in both sexes; psychiatric
disturbances can occur during or after prolonged
treatment (Ferner & Rawlins, 1988; Kennedy, 1992; Ross
& Deutch, 1990; Ryan, 1981; Wagner, 1989).

9.2.2 Inhalation

Not relevant

9.2.3 Skin exposure

Not relevant

9.2.4 Eye contact

Not relevant

9.2.5 Parenteral exposure

Virilization in women; prostatic hypertrophy,
impotence and azoospermia in men; acne, abnormal
lipids, premature cardiovascular disease (including
stroke and myocardial infarction), abnormal glucose

tolerance, and muscular hypertrophy in both sexes.
Psychiatric disturbances can occur during or after
prolonged treatment. Hepatic damage is not expected
from parenteral preparations.

9.2.6 Other

Not relevant

9.3 Course, prognosis, cause of death

Patients with symptoms of acute poisoning are expected
to recover rapidly. Patients who persistently abuse high
doses of anabolic steroids are at risk of death from
premature heart disease or cancer, especially prostatic
cancer. Non-fatal but long-lasting effects include voice
changes in women and fusion of the epiphyses in children.
Other effects are reversible over weeks or months.

9.4 Systematic description of clinical effects

9.4.1 Cardiovascular

Chronic ingestion of high doses of anabolic
steroids can cause elevations in blood pressure, left
ventricular hypertrophy and premature coronary artery
disease (McKillop et al., 1986; Bowman, 1990; McNutt
et al., 1988).

9.4.2 Respiratory

Not reported

9.4.3 Neurological

9.4.3.1 Central nervous system

Stroke has been described in a young
anabolic steroid abuser (Frankle et al.,
1988).

Pope & Katz (1988) described mania and
psychotic symptoms of hallucination and
delusion in anabolic steroid abusers. They
also described depression after withdrawal
from anabolic steroids. There is also
considerable debate about the effects of
anabolic steroids on aggressive behaviour
(Schulte et al., 1993) and on criminal
behaviour (Dalby, 1992). Mood swings were
significantly more common in normal
volunteers during the active phase of a trial
comparing methyltestosterone with placebo (Su
et al., 1993).

9.4.3.2 Peripheral nervous system

No data available

9.4.3.3 Autonomic nervous system

No data available

9.4.3.4 Skeletal and smooth muscle

No data available

9.4.4 Gastrointestinal

Acute ingestion of large doses can cause nausea
and gastrointestinal upset.

9.4.5 Hepatic

Orally active (17-alpha substituted) anabolic
steroids can cause abnormalities of hepatic function,
manifest as abnormally elevated hepatic enzyme
activity in biochemical tests of liver function, and
sometimes as overt jaundice.

The histological abnormality of peliosis hepatis has
been associated with anabolic steroid use (Soe et al.,
1992).

Angiosarcoma (Falk et al, 1979) and a case of
hepatocellular carcinoma in an anabolic steroid user
has been reported (Overly et al., 1984).

9.4.6 Urinary

9.4.6.1 Renal

Not reported

9.4.6.2 Other

Men who take large doses of anabolic
steroids can develop prostatic hypertrophy.
Prostatic carcinoma has been described in
young men who have abused anabolic steroids
(Roberts & Essenhigh, 1986).

9.4.7 Endocrine and reproductive systems

Small doses of anabolic steroids are said to
increase libido, but larger doses lead to azoospermia
and impotence. Testicular atrophy is a common clinical

feature of long-term abuse of anabolic steroids, and
gynaecomastia can occur (Martikainen et al., 1986;
Schurmeyer et al., 1984; Spano & Ryan, 1984).

Women develop signs of virilism, with increased facial
hair, male pattern baldness, acne, deepening of the
voice, irregular menses and clitoral enlargement
(Malarkey et al., 1991; Strauss et al., 1984).

9.4.8 Dermatological

Acne occurs in both male and female anabolic
steroids abusers. Women can develop signs of virilism,
with increased facial hair and male pattern
baldness.

9.4.9 Eye, ear, nose, throat: local effects

Changes in the larynx in women caused by
anabolic steroids can result in a hoarse, deep voice.
The changes are irreversible.

9.4.10 Haematological

Anabolic androgens stimulate erythropoesis.

9.4.11 Immunological

No data available

9.4.12 Metabolic

9.4.12.1 Acid-base disturbances

No data available.

9.4.12.2 Fluid and electrolyte disturbances

Sodium and water retention can
occur, and result in oedema; hypercalcaemia
is also reported (Reynolds, 1992).

9.4.12.3 Others

Insulin resistance with a fall in
glucose tolerance (Cohen & Hickman, 1987),
and hypercholesterolaemia with a fall in high
density lipoprotein cholesterol, have been
reported (Cohen et al., 1988; Glazer,
1991;Webb et al., 1984).

9.4.13 Allergic reactions

No data available

9.4.14 Other clinical effects

No data available

9.4.15 Special risks

Risk of abuse

9.5 Other

No data available

9.6 Summary

10. MANAGEMENT

10.1 General principles

The management of acute overdosage consists of
supportive treatment, with fluid replacement if vomiting is
severe. Chronic abuse should be discouraged, and
psychological support may be needed as in the treatment of
other drug abuse. The possibility of clinically important
depression after cessation of usage should be borne in
mind.

10.2 Life supportive procedures and symptomatic/specific treatment

Not relevant

10.3 Decontamination

Not usually required.

10.4 Enhanced elimination

Not indicated

10.5 Antidote treatment

10.5.1 Adults

None available

10.5.2 Children

None available

10.6 Management discussion

Not relevant

11. ILLUSTRATIVE CASES

11.1 Case reports from literature

A 38-year old man presented with acute urinary
retention, and was found to have carcinoma of the prostate.
He had taken anabolic steroids for many years, and worked as
a "strong-man" (Roberts and Essenhigh, 1986).

A 22-year old male world-class weight lifter developed severe
chest pain awaking him from sleep, and was shown to have
myocardial infarction. For six weeks before, he had been
taking high doses of oral and injected anabolic steroids.
Total serum cholesterol was 596 mg/dL (HDL 14 mg/dL, LDL 513
mg/dL) (McNutt et al., 1988). Values of total cholesterol
concentration above 200 mg/dL are considered undesirable.

A 22-year old body builder took two eight-week courses of
anabolic steroids. He became severely depressed after the
second course, and when the depression gradually receded, he
had prominent paranoid and religious delusions (Pope and
Katz, 1987).

A 19-year old American college footballer took intramuscular
testosterone and oral methandrostenolone over 4 months. He
became increasingly aggressive with his wife and child. After
he severely injured the child, he ceased using anabolic
steroids, and his violence and aggression resolved within 2
months (Schulte et al, 1993).

12. Additional information

12.1 Specific preventive measures

Anabolic steroid abuse amongst athletes, weight
lifters, body builders and others is now apparently common at
all levels of these sports. Not all abusers are competitive
sportsmen.
There is therefore scope for a public health campaign, for
example, based on gymnasia, to emphasize the dangers of
anabolic steroid abuse and to support those who wish to stop
using the drugs.

12.2 Other

No data available.

13. REFERENCES

ABPI Data Sheet Compendium (1993) Datapharm Publications,
London.

Bowman S. (1990) Anabolic steroids and infarction. Br Med J;
300:

Cohen JC & Hickman R. (1987) Insulin Resistance and diminished
glucose tolerance in powerlifters ingesting anabolic steroids. J
Clin Endocrinol Metab 64: 960.

14. AUTHOR(S), REVIEWER(S), DATE(S) (INCLUDING UPDATES), COMPLETE
ADDRESS(ES)

Author: Dr R. E. Ferner,
West Midlands Centre for Adverse Drug Reaction
Reporting,
City Hospital Dudley Road,
Birmingham B18 7QH
England.
Tel: +44-121-5074587
Fax: +44-121-5236125
Email: [email protected]

Date: 1994

Peer review: INTOX Meeting, Sao Paulo, Brazil, September 1994
(Drs P.Kulling, R.McKuowen, A.Borges, R.Higa,
R.Garnier, Hartigan-Go, E.Wickstrom)

Editor: Dr M.Ruse, March 1998

----------


## BJJ

Mesterolone

International Programme on Chemical Safety
Poisons Information Monograph 904
Pharmaceutical

This monograph does not contain all of the sections completed. This
mongraph is harmonised with the Group monograph on Anabolic Steroids 
(PIM G007).

1. NAME

1.1 Substance

Mesterolone

1.2 Group

ATC Classification:
A14 (Anabolic Agents for Systemic Use)
A14A (Anabolic steroids )

1.3 Synonyms

NSC-75054; SH-723

1.4 Identification numbers

1.4.1 CAS number

1424-00-6

1.4.2 Other numbers

1.5 Main brand names, main trade names

Mestoranum; Pro-viron; Proviron ; Vistimon;
Pluriviron (multi-ingredient preparation)

1.6 Main manufacturers, main importers

2. SUMMARY

2.1 Main risks and target organs

There is no serious risk from acute poisoning, but
chronic use can cause harm. The main risks are those of
excessive androgens: menstrual irregularities and
virilization in women and impotence, premature cardiovascular
disease and prostatic hypertrophy in men. Both men and women
can suffer liver damage with oral anabolic steroids

containing a substituted 17-alpha-carbon. Psychiatric changes
can occur during use or after cessation of these
agents.

2.2 Summary of clinical effects

Acute overdosage can produce nausea and gastrointestinal
upset. Chronic usage is thought to cause an increase in
muscle bulk, and can cause an exageration of male
characteristics and effects related to male hormones.
Anabolic steroids can influence sexual function. They can
also cause cardiovascular and hepatic damage. Acne and male-
pattern baldness occur in both sexes; irregular menses,
atrophy of the breasts, and clitor*****ly in women; and
testicular atrophy and prostatic hypertrophy in men.

2.3 Diagnosis

The diagnosis depends on a history of use of oral or
injected anabolic steroids, together with signs of increased
muscle bulk, commonly seen in "body-builders". Biochemical
tests of liver function are often abnormal in patients who
take excessive doses of oral anabolic steroids.

Laboratory analyses of urinary anabolic steroids and their
metabolites can be helpful in detecting covert use of these
drugs.

2.4 First aid measures and management principles

Supportive care is the only treatment necessary or
appropriate for acute intoxication. Chronic (ab)users can be
very reluctant to cease abuse, and may require professional
help as with other drug misuse.

3. PHYSICO-CHEMICAL PROPERTIES

3.1 Origin of the substance

Naturally-occuring anabolic steroids are synthesised in
the testis, ovary and adrenal gland from cholesterol via
pregnenolone. Synthetic anabolic steroids are based on the
principal male hormone testosterone , modified in one of three
ways:

alkylation of the 17-carbon
esterification of the 17-OH group
modification of the steroid nucleus

(Murad & Haynes, 1985).

3.2 Chemical structure

Chemical Name:
17beta-Hydroxy-1alpha-methyl-5alpha-androstan-3-one.

Molecular Formula: C20H32O2

Molecular Weight: 304.5

3.3 Physical properties

3.3.1 Colour

3.3.2 State/form

3.3.3 Description

3.4 Other characteristics

3.4.1 Shelf-life of the substance

3.4.2 Storage conditions

Protect from light.

Vials for parenteral administration should be stored
at room temperature (15 to 30°C). Visual inspection
for particulate and/or discoloration is
advisable.

4. USES

4.1 Indications

4.1.1 Indications

Anabolic agent; systemic
Anabolic steroid
Androstan derivative; anabolic steroid
Estren derivative; anabolic steroid
Other anabolic agent
Anabolic agent for systemic use; veterinary
Anabolic steroid; veterinary
Estren derivative; veterinary

4.1.2 Description

The only legitimate therapeutic indications for
anabolic steroids are:

(a) replacement of male sex steroids in men who have
androgen deficiency, for example as a result of loss
of both testes


(b) the treatment of certain rare forms of aplastic
anaemia which are or may be responsive to anabolic
androgens.

(ABPI Data Sheet Compendium, 1993)

(c) the drugs have been used in certain countries to
counteract catabolic states, for example after major
trauma.

4.2 Therapeutic dosage

4.2.1 Adults

4.2.2 Children

Not applicable

4.3 Contraindications

Known or suspected cancer of the prostate or (in men)
breast.
Pregnancy or breast-feeding.
Known cardiovascular disease is a relative contraindication.

5. ROUTES OF EXPOSURE

5.1 Oral

Anabolic steroids can be absorbed from the
gastrointestinal tract, but many compounds undergo such
extensive first-pass metabolism in the liver that they are
inactive. Those compounds in which substitution of the 17-
carbon protects the compound from the rapid hepatic
metabolism are active orally (Murad and Haynes, 1985).
There are preparations of testosterone that can be taken
sublingually.

5.2 Inhalation

Not relevant

5.3 Dermal

No data available

5.4 Eye

Not relevant

5.5 Parenteral

Intramuscular or deep subcutaneous injection is the
principal route of administration of all the anabolic
steroids except the 17-alpha-substituted steroids which are
active orally.

5.6 Other

Not relevant

6. KINETICS

6.1 Absorption by route of exposure

The absorption after oral dosing is rapid for
testosterone and probably for other anabolic steroids, but
there is extensive first-pass hepatic metabolism for all
anabolic steroids except those that are substituted at the
17-alpha position.

The rate of absorption from subcutaneous or intramuscular
depots depends on the product and its formulation. Absorption
is slow for the lipid-soluble esters such as the cypionate or
enanthate , and for oily suspensions.

6.2 Distribution by route of exposure

The anabolic steroids are highly protein bound, and is
carried in plasma by a specific protein called sex-hormone
binding globulin.

6.3 Biological half-life by route of exposure

The metabolism of absorbed drug is rapid, and the
elimination half-life from plasma is very short. The duration
of the biological effects is therefore determined almost
entirely by the rate of absorption from subcutaneous or
intramuscular depots, and on the de-esterification which
precedes it (Wilson, 1992).

6.4 Metabolism

Free (de-esterified) anabolic androgens are metabolized
by hepatic mixed function oxidases (Wilson, 1992).

6.5 Elimination by route of exposure

After administration of radiolabelled testosterone,
about 90% of the radioactivity appears in the urine, and 6%
in the faeces; there is some enterohepatic recirculation
(Wilson, 1992).

7. PHARMACOLOGY AND TOXICOLOGY

7.1 Mode of action

7.1.1 Toxicodynamics

The toxic effects are an exaggeration of the
normal pharmacological effects.

7.1.2 Pharmacodynamics

Anabolic steroids bind to specific receptors
present especially in reproductive tissue, muscle and
fat (Mooradian & Morley, 1987). The anabolic steroids
reduce nitrogen excretion from tissue breakdown in
androgen deficient men. They are also responsible for
normal male sexual differentiation. The ratio of
anabolic ("body-building") effects to androgenic 
(virilizing) effects may differ among the members of
the class, but in practice all agents possess both
properties to some degree. There is no clear evidence
that anabolic steroids enhance overall athletic
performance (Elashoff et al, 1991).

7.2 Toxicity

7.2.1 Human data

7.2.1.1 Adults

No data available.

7.2.1.2 Children

No data available.

7.2.2 Relevant animal data

No data available.

7.2.3 Relevant in vitro data

No data

7.3 Carcinogenicity

Anabolic steroids may be carcinogenic. They can
stimulate growth of sex-hormone dependent tissue, primarily
the prostate gland in men. Precocious prostatic cancer has
been described after long-term anabolic steroid abuse (Roberts
& Essenhigh, 1986). Cases where hepatic cancers have been
associated with anabolic steroid abuse have been reported
(Overly et al, 1984).

7.4 Teratogenicity

Androgen ingestion by a pregnant mother can cause
virilization of a female fetus (Dewhurst & Gordon,
1984).

7.5 Mutagenicity

No data available.

7.6 Interactions

No data available.

7.7 Main adverse effects

The adverse effects of anabolic steroids include weight
gain, fluid retention, and abnormal liver function as
measured by biochemical tests. Administration to children can
cause premature closure of the epiphyses. Men can develop
impotence and azoospermia. Women are at risk of
virilization.

8. TOXICOLOGICAL ANALYSES AND BIOMEDICAL INVESTIGATIONS

8.1 Material sampling plan
8.1.1 Sampling and specimen collection
8.1.1.1 Toxicological analyses
8.1.1.2 Biomedical analyses
8.1.1.3 Arterial blood gas analysis
8.1.1.4 Haematological analyses
8.1.1.5 Other (unspecified) analyses
8.1.2 Storage of laboratory samples and specimens
8.1.2.1 Toxicological analyses
8.1.2.2 Biomedical analyses
8.1.2.3 Arterial blood gas analysis
8.1.2.4 Haematological analyses
8.1.2.5 Other (unspecified) analyses
8.1.3 Transport of laboratory samples and specimens
8.1.3.1 Toxicological analyses
8.1.3.2 Biomedical analyses
8.1.3.3 Arterial blood gas analysis
8.1.3.4 Haematological analyses
8.1.3.5 Other (unspecified) analyses
8.2 Toxicological Analyses and Their Interpretation
8.2.1 Tests on toxic ingredient(s) of material
8.2.1.1 Simple Qualitative Test(s)
8.2.1.2 Advanced Qualitative Confirmation Test(s)
8.2.1.3 Simple Quantitative Method(s)
8.2.1.4 Advanced Quantitative Method(s)

8.2.2 Tests for biological specimens
8.2.2.1 Simple Qualitative Test(s)
8.2.2.2 Advanced Qualitative Confirmation Test(s)
8.2.2.3 Simple Quantitative Method(s)
8.2.2.4 Advanced Quantitative Method(s)
8.2.2.5 Other Dedicated Method(s)
8.2.3 Interpretation of toxicological analyses
8.3 Biomedical investigations and their interpretation
8.3.1 Biochemical analysis
8.3.1.1 Blood, plasma or serum
8.3.1.2 Urine
8.3.1.3 Other fluids
8.3.2 Arterial blood gas analyses
8.3.3 Haematological analyses
8.3.4 Interpretation of biomedical investigations

8.4 Other biomedical (diagnostic) investigations and their
interpretation

8.5 Overall Interpretation of all toxicological analyses and
toxicological investigations

Biomedical analysis
The following tests can be relevant in the investigation of
chronic anabolic steroid abuse:
a) full blood count
b) electrolytes and renal function tests
c) hepatic function tests
d) testosterone
e) Lutenizing hormone
f) prostatic acid phosphatase or prostate related antigen
g) blood glucose concentration
h) cholesterol concentration

Toxicological analysis
-urinary analysis for anabolic steroids and their
metabolites

Other investigations
-electrocardiogram

8.6 References

9. CLINICAL EFFECTS

9.1 Acute poisoning

9.1.1 Ingestion

Nausea and vomiting can occur.

9.1.2 Inhalation

Not relevant

9.1.3 Skin exposure

Not relevant

9.1.4 Eye contact

Not relevant

9.1.5 Parenteral exposure

Patients are expected to recover rapidly after
acute overdosage, but there are few data. "Body-
builders" use doses many times the standard
therapeutic doses for these compounds but do not
suffer acute toxic effects.

9.1.6 Other

Not relevant

9.2 Chronic poisoning

9.2.1 Ingestion

Hepatic damage, manifest as derangement of
biochemical tests of liver function and sometimes
severe enough to cause jaundice; virilization in
women; prostatic hypertrophy, impotence and
azoospermia in men; acne, abnormal lipids, premature
cardiovascular disease (including stroke and
myocardial infarction), abnormal glucose tolerance,
and muscular hypertrophy in both sexes; psychiatric
disturbances can occur during or after prolonged
treatment (Ferner & Rawlins, 1988; Kennedy, 1992; Ross
& Deutch, 1990; Ryan, 1981; Wagner, 1989).

9.2.2 Inhalation

Not relevant

9.2.3 Skin exposure

Not relevant

9.2.4 Eye contact

Not relevant

9.2.5 Parenteral exposure

Virilization in women; prostatic hypertrophy,
impotence and azoospermia in men; acne, abnormal
lipids, premature cardiovascular disease (including

stroke and myocardial infarction), abnormal glucose
tolerance, and muscular hypertrophy in both sexes.
Psychiatric disturbances can occur during or after
prolonged treatment. Hepatic damage is not expected
from parenteral preparations.

9.2.6 Other

Not relevant

9.3 Course, prognosis, cause of death

Patients with symptoms of acute poisoning are expected
to recover rapidly. Patients who persistently abuse high
doses of anabolic steroids are at risk of death from
premature heart disease or cancer, especially prostatic
cancer. Non-fatal but long-lasting effects include voice
changes in women and fusion of the epiphyses in children.
Other effects are reversible over weeks or months.

9.4 Systematic description of clinical effects

9.4.1 Cardiovascular

Chronic ingestion of high doses of anabolic
steroids can cause elevations in blood pressure, left
ventricular hypertrophy and premature coronary artery
disease (McKillop et al., 1986; Bowman, 1990; McNutt
et al., 1988).

9.4.2 Respiratory

Not reported

9.4.3 Neurological

9.4.3.1 Central nervous system

Stroke has been described in a young
anabolic steroid abuser (Frankle et al.,
1988).

Pope & Katz (1988) described mania and
psychotic symptoms of hallucination and
delusion in anabolic steroid abusers. They
also described depression after withdrawal
from anabolic steroids. There is also
considerable debate about the effects of
anabolic steroids on aggressive behaviour
(Schulte et al., 1993) and on criminal
behaviour (Dalby, 1992). Mood swings were
significantly more common in normal

volunteers during the active phase of a trial
comparing methyltestosterone with placebo (Su
et al., 1993).

9.4.3.2 Peripheral nervous system

No data available

9.4.3.3 Autonomic nervous system

No data available

9.4.3.4 Skeletal and smooth muscle

No data available

9.4.4 Gastrointestinal

Acute ingestion of large doses can cause nausea
and gastrointestinal upset.

9.4.5 Hepatic

Orally active (17-alpha substituted) anabolic
steroids can cause abnormalities of hepatic function,
manifest as abnormally elevated hepatic enzyme
activity in biochemical tests of liver function, and
sometimes as overt jaundice.

The histological abnormality of peliosis hepatis has
been associated with anabolic steroid use (Soe et al.,
1992).

Angiosarcoma (Falk et al, 1979) and a case of
hepatocellular carcinoma in an anabolic steroid user
has been reported (Overly et al., 1984).

9.4.6 Urinary

9.4.6.1 Renal

Not reported

9.4.6.2 Other

Men who take large doses of anabolic
steroids can develop prostatic hypertrophy.
Prostatic carcinoma has been described in
young men who have abused anabolic steroids
(Roberts & Essenhigh, 1986).

9.4.7 Endocrine and reproductive systems

Small doses of anabolic steroids are said to
increase libido, but larger doses lead to azoospermia
and impotence. Testicular atrophy is a common clinical
feature of long-term abuse of anabolic steroids, and
gynaecomastia can occur (Martikainen et al., 1986;
Schurmeyer et al., 1984; Spano & Ryan, 1984).

Women develop signs of virilism, with increased facial
hair, male pattern baldness, acne, deepening of the
voice, irregular menses and clitoral enlargement
(Malarkey et al., 1991; Strauss et al., 1984).

9.4.8 Dermatological

Acne occurs in both male and female anabolic
steroids abusers. Women can develop signs of
virilism, with increased facial hair and male pattern
baldness.

9.4.9 Eye, ear, nose, throat: local effects

Changes in the larynx in women caused by
anabolic steroids can result in a hoarse, deep voice.
The changes are irreversible.

9.4.10 Haematological

Anabolic androgens stimulate erythropoesis.

9.4.11 Immunological

No data available

9.4.12 Metabolic

9.4.12.1 Acid-base disturbances

No data available.

9.4.12.2 Fluid and electrolyte disturbances

Sodium and water retention can
occur, and result in oedema; hypercalcaemia
is also reported (Reynolds, 1992).

9.4.12.3 Others

Insulin resistance with a fall in
glucose tolerance (Cohen & Hickman, 1987),
and hypercholesterolaemia with a fall in high

density lipoprotein cholesterol, have been
reported (Cohen et al., 1988; Glazer, 1991;
Webb et al., 1984).

9.4.13 Allergic reactions

No data available

9.4.14 Other clinical effects

No data available

9.4.15 Special risks

Risk of abuse

9.5 Other

No data available

9.6 Summary

10. MANAGEMENT

10.1 General principles

The management of acute overdosage consists of
supportive treatment, with fluid replacement if vomiting is
severe. Chronic abuse should be discouraged, and
psychological support may be needed as in the treatment of
other drug abuse. The possibility of clinically important
depression after cessation of usage should be borne in
mind.

10.2 Life supportive procedures and symptomatic/specific treatment

Not relevant

10.3 Decontamination

Not usually required.

10.4 Enhanced elimination

Not indicated

10.5 Antidote treatment

10.5.1 Adults

None available

10.5.2 Children

None available

10.6 Management discussion

Not relevant

11. ILLUSTRATIVE CASES

11.1 Case reports from literature

A 38-year old man presented with acute urinary
retention, and was found to have carcinoma of the prostate.
He had taken anabolic steroids for many years, and worked as
a "strong-man" (Roberts and Essenhigh, 1986).

A 22-year old male world-class weight lifter developed severe
chest pain awaking him from sleep, and was shown to have
myocardial infarction. For six weeks before, he had been
taking high doses of oral and injected anabolic steroids.
Total serum cholesterol was 596 mg/dL (HDL 14 mg/dL, LDL 513
mg/dL) (McNutt et al., 1988). Values of total cholesterol
concentration above 200 mg/dL are considered undesirable.

A 22-year old body builder took two eight-week courses of
anabolic steroids. He became severely depressed after the
second course, and when the depression gradually receded, he
had prominent paranoid and religious delusions (Pope and
Katz, 1987).

A 19-year old American college footballer took intramuscular
testosterone and oral methandrostenolone over 4 months. He
became increasingly aggressive with his wife and child. After
he severely injured the child, he ceased using anabolic
steroids, and his violence and aggression resolved within 2
months (Schulte et al, 1993).

12. Additional information

12.1 Specific preventive measures

Anabolic steroid abuse amongst athletes, weight
lifters, body builders and others is now apparently common at
all levels of these sports. Not all abusers are competitive
sportsmen.
There is therefore scope for a public health campaign, for
example, based on gymnasia, to emphasize the dangers of
anabolic steroid abuse and to support those who wish to stop
using the drugs.

12.2 Other

No data available.

13. REFERENCES

ABPI Data Sheet Compendium (1993) Datapharm Publications,
London.

Bowman S. (1990) Anabolic steroids and infarction. Br Med J; 
300:

Cohen JC & Hickman R. (1987) Insulin Resistance and diminished
glucose tolerance in powerlifters ingesting anabolic steroids. J
Clin Endocrinol Metab 64: 960.

14. AUTHOR(S), REVIEWER(S), DATE(S) (INCLUDING UPDATES), COMPLETE
ADDRESS(ES)

Author: Dr R. E. Ferner,
West Midlands Centre for Adverse Drug Reaction
Reporting,
City Hospital Dudley Road,
Birmingham B18 7QH
England.
Tel: +44-121-5074587
Fax: +44-121-5236125
Email: [email protected]

Date: 1994

Peer review: INTOX Meeting, Sao Paulo, Brazil, September 1994
(Drs P.Kulling, R.McKuowen, A.Borges, R.Higa,
R.Garnier, Hartigan-Go, E.Wickstrom)

Editor: Dr M.Ruse, March 1998

----------


## BJJ

*International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC)*
Summaries & Evaluations
CLOMIPHENE CITRATE
(Group 3)

For definition of Groups, see Preamble Evaluation.

Supplement 7: (1987) (p. 172)

Clomiphene
CAS No.: 58-22-0
Chem. Abstr. Name: 2-[4-(2-Chloro-1,2-diphenylethenyl)phenoxy]-N,N-diethylethanamine

Clomiphene citrate
CAS No.: 50-41-9
Chem. Abstr. Name: 2-[4-(2-Chloro-1,2-diphenylethenyl)phenoxy]-N,N-diethylethanamine-
2-hydroxy-1,2,3-propanetricarboxylate (1:1)

A. Evidence for carcinogenicity to humans (inadequate)

Only case reports of benign and malignant tumours occurring at various sites are available [ref: 1-5]. These include testicular tumours in three young men who had received clomiphene as part of hormonal treatment for oligospermia [ref: 2], a hepatoblastoma in a female infant whose mother had received clomiphene citrate as treatment for infertility [ref: 3], a liver-cell adenoma in a woman who had received clomiphene citrate for oligomenorrhoea [ref: 4], and unilateral testicular neoplasms in two of 650 oligospermic men who had received monthly treatments with clomiphene citrate (daily for three weeks followed by a week of rest) for six to 12 months [ref: 5].

B. Evidence for carcinogenicity to animals (inadequate)

Clomiphene citrate was tested in an inadequate experiment in newborn rats by single subcutaneous injection; reproductive-tract abnormalities, including uterine and ovarian tumours, were reported [ref: 1].

C. Other relevant data

No data were available on the genetic and related effects of clomiphene citrate in humans. It did not induce chromosomal aberrations or micronuclei in bone-marrow cells of mice treated in vivo [ref: 6].

Overall evaluation

Clomiphene citrate is not classifiable as to its carcinogenicity to humans (Group 3).

For definition of the italicized terms, see Preamble Evaluation.

Also see previous evaluation: Vol. 21 (1979)

References

1. IARC Monographs, 21, 551-561

2. Neoptolemos, J.P., Locke, T.J. & Fossard, D.P. (1981) Testicular tumour associated with hormonal treatment for oligospermia. Lancet, ii, 754

3. Melamed, I., Bujanover, Y., Hammer, J. & Spirer, Z. (1982) Hepatoblastoma in an infant born to a mother after hormonal treatment for steriligy. New Engl. J. Med., 307, 820

4. Carrasco, D., Barrachina, M., Prieto, M. & Berenguer, J. (1983) Clomiphene citrate and liver cell adenoma. New Engl. J. Med., 310, 1120-1121

5. Nilsson, A. & Nilsson, S. (1985) Testicular germ cell tumors after clomiphene therapy for subfertility. J. Urol., 134, 560-562

6. IARC Monographs, Suppl. 6, 184-185, 1987
Synonyms for Clomiphene

* Chloramiphene
* 2-para-(2-Chloro-1,2-diphenylvinyl)-phenoxy]triethylamine
* 2-para-(b-Chloro-a-phenylstyryl)phenoxy]triethylamine
* Clomifene
* Clomiphene B 

Synonyms for Clomiphene citrate

* Clomiphene dihydrogen citrate
* 2-[p-(2-Chloro-1,2-diphenylvinyl)phenoxy]triethylamine citrate (1:1)
* Clomid
* Clomifeno
* Clomivid
* Clomphid
* Chloramiphene
* Dyneric
* Genozym
* Ikaclomin
* Mer-41
* MRL 41
* MRL/41
* NSC 35770
* Omifin
* Racemic clomiphene citrate 

Last updated: 9 March 1998

*International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC)*
Summaries & Evaluations
CLOMIPHENE AND CLOMIPHENE CITRATE

VOL.: 21 (1979) (p. 551)

5. Summary of Data Reported and Evaluation
(N.B. - This section should be read in conjunction with the General Remarks on Sex Hormones and with the General Conclusions on Sex Hormones.)

5.1 Experimental data
Clomiphene citrate was inadequately tested in one experiment in newborn rats by subcutaneous injection; uterine and ovarian tumours were reported.

Clomiphene citrate is embryolethal for pre- and postimplantation embryos in several species and has various teratogenic effects in rats.

5.2 Human data
There are a few case reports of the occurrence of malignant and benign tumours at various sites in patients treated with clomiphene citrate, but there is no evidence of a causal relationship.

No definite association between clomiphene citrate administration and congenital defects in humans has been demonstrated.

5.3 Evaluation
The available experimental and human data are insufficient to evaluate the carcinogenicity of clomiphene citrate.

Subsequent evaluation: Suppl. 7 (1987)

Last updated 01/12/98

----------


## BJJ

PHARMACEUTICALS
1. NAME
1.1 Substance
Tamoxifen 
1.2 Group
Anti-oestrogen, non-steroidal derivative of triphenyl ethylene 
ATC: L02B A01
1.3 Synonyms
(Z)-2-[4-(1,2-Diphenylbut-1-enyl)phenoxy]-N,N-dimethylethylamine citrate
ICI 46 474
[trans-1-(4-beta-dimethylaminoethoxyphenyl)-1,2-diphenylbut-1-ene]
1.4 Identification numbers
1.4.1 CAS number
10540
1.4.2 Other numbers
Tamoxifen citrate: 54965-24-1
1.5 Brand names, Trade names
Emblon (Berk)
Noltam (Lederle)
Nolvadex (ICI)
Nolvadex-D (ICI)
Nolvadex forte(ICI)
Tamofen (Tillotts)
1.6 Manufacturers, Importers
Berk Pharmaceuticals Ltd., ICI Pharmaceuticals (UK).,
Lederle Laboratories., Tillotts Laboratories.
2. SUMMARY
2.1 Main risks and target organs
There is no record of serious effects from tamoxifen after 
acute overdosage.

Adverse effects in therapeutic use are usually mild. They 
include effects caused by antagonism of endogenous oestrogens: 
hot flushes, non-specific gastrointestinal effects (nausea and 
vomiting), central nervous system effects, and rare ocular 
effects. Adverse haematological effects have been reported, 
also isolated cases of death from peliosis hepatis and from 
hyperlipidaemia.

In the treatment of breast cancer, hypercalcaemia and tumour 
flare can occur.
2.2 Summary of clinical effects
Anti-oestrogenic effects in women treated with tamoxifen 
include vasomotor symptoms (hot flushes), vaginal bleeding and 
(in premenopausal women) irregular menses, and pruritus 
vulvae. Nausea and vomiting can occur.

Dizziness, lethargy, depression, irritability and cerebellar 
dysfunction have been described.

Reversible retinopathy with macular oedema has been reported 
after high cumulative doses (&gt7g), and corneal changes can 
occur.


Thrombocytopenia or leukopenia have been associated with 
tamoxifen treatment. Thromboembolism, which may be due to the 
disease rather than the treatment, has been recorded in women 
given tamoxifen for breast cancer.
2.3 Diagnosis
Based on history of exposure and occurrence of adverse effects 
such as hot flushes, nausea, vomiting, ocular disorders, 
tumour flare, hypercalcemia, vaginal bleeding and CNS signs 
and symptoms.
2.4 First aid measures and management principles
General measures such as inducing emesis or gastric lavage may 
be indicated in massive overdosage.

Treatment is symptomatic.
3. PHYSICO-CHEMICAL PROPERTIES
3.1 Origin of the substance
Synthetic.
3.2 Chemical structure
(Z)-2-[4-(1,2-Diphenylbut-1-enyl)phenoxy]-N,N-
dimethylethylamine citrate

C26H29NO, C6H8O7

[trans-1-(4-beta-dimethylaminoethoxyphenyl)-1, 2-diphenylbut-1-ene]

Molecular weight = 563.6

pKa = 8.85
3.3 Physical properties
3.3.1 Properties of the substance
Solubility in water at 37 °C = 0.05 g/100 ml.
3.3.2 Properties of the locally available formulation
No data available.
3.4 Other characteristics
3.4.1 Shelf-life of the substance
Assumed to be at least 5 years.
3.4.2 Shelf-life of the locally available formulation
Assumed to be at least 5 years.
3.4.3 Storage conditions
Store between 15 and 30 °C
Protect from light
3.4.4 Bioavailability
(to be added)
3.4.5 Specific properties and composition
(to be added by centre).
4. USES
4.1 Indications
Treatment of advanced breast cancer and adjuvant 
treatment of early breast cancer.
Treatment of anovulatory infertility.
4.2 Therapeutic dosage
4.2.1 Adults
Breast cancer: initial dose 10 mg twice daily;
if no response after 1 month, 20 mg twice daily.


Infertility: regular menstruation, 10 mg twice daily on 
days 2,3,4 and 5 of cycle, increasing to 20 mg twice 
daily and 40 mg twice daily in successive cycles if 
ovulation does not occur.

Amenorrhoea: 10 mg twice daily on 4 successive days, 
increasing to 20 mg twice daily and 40 mg twice daily 
after intervals of 45 and 90 days if ovulation does not 
occur.
4.2.2 Children
No data available.
4.3 Contraindications
Pregnancy is an absolute contraindication because of the anti-
oestrogenic effects.
5. ROUTES OF ENTRY
5.1 Oral
Usual route of entry
5.2 Inhalation
Not relevant.
5.3 Dermal
Not relevant.
5.4 Eye
Not relevant.
5.5 Parenteral
Not relevant.
5.6 Other
Not relevant.
6. KINETICS
6.1 Absorption by route of exposure
Peak concentrations occur 4-7 h after oral dosing. Peak 
concentrations after single oral doses of 20 mg are about 40 
µ/l. There is no information on absolute bioavailability.
(Martindale, 1989; Buckley & Goa, 1989; Lien et al., 1989)
6.2 Distribution by route of exposure
Tamoxifen is more than 99% protein-bound in serum, 
predominantly to albumin. In patients with breast cancer, 
concentrations of tamoxifen and its metabolites in pleural, 
pericardial and peritoneal effusion fluid are between 20 and 
100% of those in serum, but only trace amounts enter the 
cerebrospinal fluid. Concentrations in breast cancer tissue 
exceed those in serum.

The volume of distribution is 50-60 l/kg (Martindale, 1989; 
Buckley & Goa, 1989; Lien et al., 1989)
6.3 Biological half-life by route of exposure
The elimination is biphasic, with an initial half-life of 
around 7 h and a terminal half-life of 7-11 days. (Martindale, 
1989; Buckley & Goa, 1989; Lien et al., 1989)
6.4 Metabolism
Tamoxifen citrate undergoes extensive hepatic metabolism to:

1-(4-ethanolyloxyphenyl)-1,2-diphenylbut-1-ene (the primary 
alcohol)
N-desmethyl tamoxifen
4-hydroxy tamoxifen
4-hydroxy-N-desmethyl tamoxifen

N-desdimethyl tamoxifen

(Martindale, 1989; Buckley & Goa, 1989; Lien et al., 1989)
6.5 Elimination by route of exposure
The major excretory route is via the bile as metabolites and 
enterohepatic recirculation occurs. Less than 1% is excreted 
in the urine. (Martindale, 1989; Buckley & Goa, 1989; Lien et 
al., 1989).
7. PHARMACOLOGY AND TOXICOLOGY
7.1 Mode of action
7.1.1 Toxicodynamics
The adverse effects observed are due mainly to its anti-
oestrogen effect, as Tamoxifen and certain of its 
metabolites antagonise the effects of oestrogens in 
oestrogen-sensitive tissues.
7.1.2 Pharmacodynamics
Tamoxifen and several of its metabolites (particularly 4-
hydroxytamoxifen) bind to nuclear oestrogen receptors in 
oestrogen-sensitive tissues, and also to a microsomal 
protein termed the 'anti-oestrogen binding site'. 
Tamoxifen interferes with the physiological sequence by 
which oestrogen binds to its receptor, is translocated 
in the nucleus and then activates messenger RNA 
synthesis. Although the tamoxifen-receptor complex is 
transported in the nucleus in the same way as oestrogen-
receptor complex, it fails to activate synthesis of 
mRNA. (Buckley & Goa, 1990)

A meta-analysis of published trials in breast cancer 
(Early Breast Cancer Trialists, 1988) demonstrates a 
reduction in odds of death of about 20% over the first 5 
years from diagnosis in women aged over 50 years.
7.2 Toxicity
7.2.1 Human data
7.2.1.1 Adults
There is no information on the acute toxicity of 
tamoxifen in overdosage.

The lowest cumulative dose of tamoxifen known to 
have induced retinopathy, an adverse effect 
which is recognised to be dose-dependent, is 7.7 
g (Griffiths, 1987)
7.2.1.2 Children
No data available.
7.2.2 Relevant animal data
In some animal species, oestrogenic agonist effects 
become manifest at dosages equivalent to 10-100 times 
the human therapeutic dose (ABPI, 1989).
7.2.3 Relevant in vitro data
No data available.
7.3 Carcinogenicity
A case-control study (Hardell, 1988) showed a significantly 
increased relative risk of carcinoma of the uterus in women 
previously treated with tamoxifen AND who had previously had 
radiotherapy involving the uterus. The study showed an 
increase in relative risk with tamoxifen treatment alone which 

was NOT statistically significant (see also Section 7.4).
7.4 Teratogenicity
Studies in neonatal male (Taguchi, 1987) and female (Taguchi & 
Nishizuka, 1985) mice at relative doses 10 times higher than 
those used in humans have shown genital tract abnormalities 
similar to those caused by diethylstilboestrol, a known 
transplacental carcinogen (diethylstilboestrol causes vaginal 
adenosis, which predisposes to clear cell carcinoma).
7.5 Mutagenicity
Tamoxifen is believed not to be mutagenic (Martindale, 1989).
7.6 Interactions
Tamoxifen POTENTIATES the anticoagulant effect of warfarin, 
and this interaction can be life-threatening (Tenni et al, 
1989; Ritchie & Grant, 1989).
7.7 Main adverse effects
Adverse effects are usually mild. Thrombocytopenia, 
leukopenia, thromboembolism, peliosis hepatis and 
hyperlipidaemia have been mentioned in case reports.

Severe hypercalcaemia can occur rarely when treatment is 
started in patients with metastases to bone.
8. TOXICOLOGICAL ANALYSES AND BIOMEDICAL INVESTIGATIONS
8.1 Material sampling plan
8.1.1 Sampling and specimen collection
8.1.1.1 Toxicological analyses
8.1.1.2 Biomedical analyses
8.1.1.3 Arterial blood gas analysis
8.1.1.4 Haematological analyses
8.1.1.5 Other (unspecified) analyses
8.1.2 Storage of laboratory samples and specimens
8.1.2.1 Toxicological analyses
8.1.2.2 Biomedical analyses
8.1.2.3 Arterial blood gas analysis
8.1.2.4 Haematological analyses
8.1.2.5 Other (unspecified) analyses
8.1.3 Transport of laboratory samples and specimens
8.1.3.1 Toxicological analyses
8.1.3.2 Biomedical analyses
8.1.3.3 Arterial blood gas analysis
8.1.3.4 Haematological analyses
8.1.3.5 Other (unspecified) analyses
8.2 Toxicological Analyses and Their Interpretation
8.2.1 Tests on toxic ingredient(s) of material
8.2.1.1 Simple Qualitative Test(s)
8.2.1.2 Advanced Qualitative Confirmation Test(s)
8.2.1.3 Simple Quantitative Method(s)
8.2.1.4 Advanced Quantitative Method(s)
8.2.2 Tests for biological specimens
8.2.2.1 Simple Qualitative Test(s)
8.2.2.2 Advanced Qualitative Confirmation Test(s)
8.2.2.3 Simple Quantitative Method(s)
8.2.2.4 Advanced Quantitative Method(s)
8.2.2.5 Other Dedicated Method(s)
8.2.3 Interpretation of toxicological analyses
8.3 Biomedical investigations and their interpretation
8.3.1 Biochemical analysis

8.3.1.1 Blood, plasma or serum
8.3.1.2 Urine
8.3.1.3 Other fluids
8.3.2 Arterial blood gas analyses
8.3.3 Haematological analyses
8.3.4 Interpretation of biomedical investigations
8.4 Other biomedical (diagnostic) investigations and their 
interpretation
8.5 Overall Interpretation of all toxicological analyses and 
toxicological investigations
8.6 References
9. CLINICAL EFFECTS
9.1 Acute poisoning
9.1.1 Ingestion
No data available.
9.1.2 Inhalation
No data available.
9.1.3 Skin exposure
No data available.
9.1.4 Eye contact
No data available.
9.1.5 Parenteral exposure
No data available.
9.1.6 Other
No data available.
9.2 Chronic poisoning
9.2.1 Ingestion
Retinal damage and keratitis have been reported in 
patients after large cumulative doses of tamoxifen, 
generally over 180 mg per day for more than 1 year 
(Buckley & Goa, 1989), though sometimes with smaller 
doses (Griffiths, 1987). There seems to be correlation 
between long-term tamoxifen administration and 
endometrical proliferation (Uziely et al, 1993).
9.2.2 Inhalation
No data available.
9.2.3 Skin exposure
No data available.
9.2.4 Eye contact
No data available.
9.2.5 Parenteral exposure
No data available.
9.2.6 Other
No data available.
9.3 Course, prognosis, cause of death
No data available.
9.4 Systematic description of clinical effects
9.4.1 Cardiovascular
No data available.
9.4.2 Respiratory
No data available.
9.4.3 Neurological
9.4.3.1 CNS
A case of depression, syncope, and 
incoordination has been described during therapy 
with 10 mg twice daily (Pluss et al., 1984). The 

symptoms resolved when tamoxifen was 
discontinued and reappeared when treatment was 
restarted.
9.4.3.2 Peripheral nervous system
No data available.
9.4.3.3 Autonomic nervous system
No data available.
9.4.3.4 Skeletal and smooth muscle
No data available.
9.4.4 Gastrointestinal
Nausea and vomiting occur with therapeutic doses in some 
patients, and are anticipated in overdosage (ABPI, 1989)
9.4.5 Hepatic
A fatal case of peliosis hepatis has been reported in a 
woman treated with tamoxifen for 2 years after 
mastectomy for carcinoma (Loomus et al., 1983).
9.4.6 Urinary
9.4.6.1 Renal
No data available.
9.4.6.2 Other
A case of persistent nocturnal priapism has been 
reported (Fernando & Tobias, 1989).
9.4.7 Endocrine and reproductive systems
The anti-oestrogenic effects of tamoxifen in 
premenopausal women receiving therapeutic doses can 
cause irregular menses.

Anti-oestrogenic adverse effects in women treated with 
tamoxifen include vasomotor symptoms (hot flushes), 
vaginal bleeding and pruritus vulvae (Buckley & Goa, 
1989).
9.4.8 Dermatological
No data available.
9.4.9 Eye, ear, nose, throat: local effects
Treatment has been associated with retinal and corneal 
changes: see para 9.2.
9.4.10 Haematological
Thromboembolism may be more common in patients treated 
with tamoxifen, though this is not certain, as patients 
with cancer are at increased risk anyway.
A small reduction in antithrombin III concentration was 
noted in a study of 11 postmenopausal women treated 
with tamoxifen, but it was clinically insignificant, 
and no significant reduction was seen in a group of 
premenopausal women (Jordan et al., 1987).

Thrombocytopenia and leukopenia can occur during 
therapy, but are not usually severe (ABPI, 1989). One 
case of severe myelosuppression has been reported 
(International Adjuvant Therapy Organisation, 1985).
9.4.11 Immunological
No data available.
9.4.12 Metabolic
9.4.12.1 Acid-base disturbances
No data available.
9.4.12.2 Fluid and electrolyte disturbances

Severe hypercalcaemia, associated with 
increased bone resorption, has been noted when 
 patients with bony metastases commenced 
therapy (Martindale, 1989).
9.4.12.3 Others
Severe hyperlipidaemia is occasionally seen, 
and has been ascribed to an oestrogenic effect 
(Noguchi et al., 1987)
9.4.13 Allergic reactions
No data available.
9.4.14 Other clinical effects
No data available.
9.4.15 Special risks
Pregnancy, breast feeding, enzyme deficiencies: no data 
available (see sections 7.3 and 7.4)
9.5 Other
No data available.
9.6 Summary
10. MANAGEMENT
10.1 General principles
It is unlikely that serious acute toxicity would occur, and 
management is supportive. The stomach should be emptied 
after massive overdosage.
10.2 Relevant laboratory analyses
10.2.1 Sample collection
No data available.
10.2.2 Biomedical analysis
Urea, creatinine and electrolytes may be helpful in 
the assessment of patients who are vomiting.
10.2.3 Toxicological analysis
Not relevant.
10.2.4 Other investigations
Not relevant.
10.3 Life supportive procedures and symptomatic/specific 
treatment
Nausea and vomiting may make intravenous fluid replacement 
necessary.
10.4 Decontamination
Gastric lavage may be of value in massive overdosage, but 
there are no data on this subject.
10.5 Elimination
Therapy to enhance elimination is not likely to be effective,
given the large volume of distribution.
10.6 Antidote treatment
10.6.1 Adults
Not relevant.
10.6.2 Children
Not relevant.
10.7 Management discussion
No data available.
11. ILLUSTRATIVE CASES
11.1 Case reports from literature
No data available.
11.2 Internally extracted data on cases
One manufacturer (ICI) is aware of the case of a woman aged 
51 years who claimed to have swallowed 100 x 10 mg tablets 

of tamoxifen, and who suffered no ill effects (JI Landles, 
personal communication).
11.3 Internal cases
No data available.
12. Additional information
12.1 Availability of antidotes
Not relevant.
12.2 Specific preventive measures
No data available.
12.3 Other
No data available.
13. REFERENCES
ABPI (Association of the British Pharmaceutical Industry) (1989) 
Data Sheet Compendium. London.

Buckley M M-T, Goa KL (1989). Tamoxifen: a reappraisal of its 
pharmacodynamic and pharmacokinetic properties and therapeutic 
use. Drugs, 37: 451-490.

Early Breast Cancer Trialists Collaborative Group (1988). 
Effects of adjuvant tamoxifen and of cytotoxic therapy on 
mortality in early breast cancer. New Eng. J. Med., 319: 1681-
1692.

14. AUTHOR(S), REVIEWER(S), DATE(S) (INCLUDING UPDATES), COMPLETE 
ADDRESS(ES)
Author: Dr R.E. Ferner
Northern Drug and Therapeutics Centre
The Wolfson Unit
Royal Victoria Infirmary
Newcastle-upon-Tyne NE1 4LP
United Kingdom

Tel: 44-91-2328511
Fax: 44-91-2323613

Date: 15 April 1990

Peer Review: Strasbourg, France, April 1990

Review: IPCS, May 1994

----------


## BJJ

TAMOXIFEN 
(Group 1)

For definition of Groups, see Preamble Evaluation.

VOL.: 66 (1996) (p. 253)

CAS No.: 10540-29-1
Chem. Abstr. Name: (Z)-2-[4-(1,2-Diphenyl-1-butenyl)phenoxy]-N,N-dimethylethanamine

CAS No.: 54965-24-1
Chem. Abstr. Name: (Z)-2-[4-(1,2-Diphenyl-1-butenyl)phenoxy]-N,N-dimethylethanamine,
2-hydroxy-1,2,3-propanetricarboxylate (1:1)

5. Summary of Data Reported and Evaluation
5.1 Exposure data

Tamoxifen has been available since the early 1970s for the first-line treatment of metastatic breast cancer in postmenopausal women. Since the 1980s, it has become the therapy of choice for this condition. Tamoxifen has also become the adjuvant therapy of choice for treatment of postmenopausal, node-positive women with positive oestrogen-receptor or progesterone-receptor levels and, since the early 1990s, for the treatment of postmenopausal, node-negative women with positive oestrogen-receptor or progesterone-receptor levels. It is also widely used in treating postmenopausal receptor-negative women and premenopausal women with node-negative, receptor-positive disease. When used as adjuvant therapy, tamoxifen reduces the annual rates of both death from and recurrence of breast cancer by about 25%. Tamoxifen is commonly given at doses of 20 mg daily for periods of two to five years in the adjuvant setting, although doses of up to 40 mg daily have been used in the past. Several clinical trials are in progress to study the efficacy of tamoxifen in preventing breast cancer in healthy women believed to be at high risk of developing the disease.

Tamoxifen has been widely adopted as the first-line therapy of choice for hormone-responsive male breast cancer and is frequently used as adjuvant therapy for oestrogen receptor- or progesterone receptor-positive male breast cancer.

Tamoxifen is registered for use in nearly 100 countries and cumulative use since 1973 is estimated at 7 million patient-years.

5.2 Human carcinogenicity data

The potential effect of tamoxifen in increasing the risk of endometrial cancer has been reported in one adequate cohort study, four adequate case-control studies and 14 randomized controlled trials.

In the cohort study, based on follow-up of registered cases of breast cancer in the population-based Surveillance, Epidemiology and End Results (SEER) database in the United States, the only available data on therapy were those reported at the time of initial registration. Both groups of women with reported tamoxifen use and those with no such reported use had elevated rates of endometrial cancer compared with the rates expected from the SEER database as a whole. The risk was significantly greater for women with reported tamoxifen use. The similar stage distribution in the two groups suggests a lack of serious detection bias in this study. The absence of hysterectomies could not be confirmed in this study.

The case-control studies were based on the identification of a series of women with breast cancer who had subsequently been diagnosed with endometrial cancer, with tamoxifen exposure assessed in comparison with breast cancer patients who had not developed endometrial cancer. In two of these, case and control selection was based on the records of population-based cancer registries, and two used the same source as well as hospital-based cancer registries. For the Swedish study, although an increased risk of endometrial cancer for tamoxifen use was found, the only information on treatment was that recorded in the cancer registry. Further, the absence of hysterectomy in the control series could not be confirmed. For the remaining three case-control studies, more detailed data on treatment and on hysterectomies were obtained from medical records. In the studies in France and the Netherlands, a nonsignificant elevation of risk for endometrial cancer with use of tamoxifen was found, with a significant increase in risk with increasing duration of therapy in one. In the United States study, which reported on shorter duration of use, the point estimate of risk was less than unity.

Although several potential confounders were not systematically addressed in most studies, the Working Group considered that these were unlikely to have had a major effect on the reported relative risks.

In most of the randomized trials, small numbers of endometrial cancers were reported, and for many the data were not reported in a way that corrected for the greater survival time in most trials of the tamoxifen-treated patients compared to the control series. In two of the largest trials, however, there was a strong and statistically significant association between risk for endometrial cancer and use of tamoxifen. Although there may have been a tendency for publication bias and there is some possibility of a detection bias as a result of investigations in women with side-effects from tamoxifen, the magnitude of the risk found in the two large trials is unlikely to be explained by such biases. Further, for the trials that reported deaths in women with endometrial cancer, to date there have been eight deaths in women allocated to tamoxifen treatment groups and one in those not allocated to tamoxifen.

One case series reported significantly more high-grade endometrial tumours in tamoxifen-treated cancer patients than in patients without prior tamoxifen use. However, in at least six other studies, this difference was not found.

The SEER-based cohort study found a significantly reduced risk for contralateral breast cancers in the tamoxifen-treated women, compared with women with no reported tamoxifen use. The case-control study from the United States also reported a significant reduction of risk for contralateral cancers of the breast following tamoxifen use.

Although for some small trials there seemed to be little difference in the numbers of contralateral breast cancers in tamoxifen-treated women compared with controls, for the large trials, there was a substantially and significantly reduced risk for contralateral breast cancer in tamoxifen-treated women compared with controls. Further, in an overview analysis of nearly all trials published in 1992 with data available to 1990, there was a significant reduction of 39% in contralateral breast cancers in the tamoxifen-treated groups.

For all other cancer sites, no significant excess of any cancer has been found in either the cohort study or the trials. Although an excess of gastrointestinal cancer was reported following a combined analysis of three Scandinavian trials, this has not yet been confirmed by other studies.

5.3 Animal carcinogenicity data

Tamoxifen was tested for carcinogenicity by oral administration in one study in mice and in eight studies in rats, only one of which was a formal two-year study. In mice, the incidences of benign ovarian and testicular tumours were increased. In rats, tamoxifen induced preneoplastic liver lesions and benign or malignant liver tumours. In one study, the incidence of some tumours in hormone-dependent tissues was decreased, including in the mammary gland, although reduced weight gain may have been a contributing factor. In two studies in which tamoxifen was tested by subcutaneous implantation in intact or ovariectomized female mice, it inhibited mammary tumour development in both.

In mice, tamoxifen was reported to inhibit 3-methylcholanthrene-induced cervical cancer and virus-induced leukaemia. In several studies in both male and female rats, tamoxifen enhanced the hepatocarcinogenicity of previously administered N-nitrosodiethylamine. In one study in rats, tamoxifen enhanced the development of N-nitrosodiethylamine-induced kidney tumours. In a number of studies in rats, tamoxifen inhibited 7,12-dimethylbenz[a]anthracene-induced mammary tumour development. In two studies in hamsters, tamoxifen inhibited hormonal carcinogenesis induced by 17b-oestradiol in the kidney and zeranol in the liver.

5.4 Other relevant data

Orally administered tamoxifen is well absorbed and maximum plasma levels are reached in about 5 h. Steady-state concentrations of tamoxifen in humans are reached in 3-4 weeks and those of the primary metabolite, N-desmethyltamoxifen, in about eight weeks. Tissue concentrations tend to be higher than plasma concentrations. Metabolism involves phenyl hydroxylation, alkyl hydroxylation, demethylation and N-oxide formation. Metabolism results in more products in man and rats than in mice. Much higher oral doses of tamoxifen are required for rats or mice to achieve plasma concentrations similar to human levels.

Tamoxifen is an antioestrogen with complex pharmacology encompassing variable species-, tissue-, cell-, gene-, age- and duration of administration-specific effects from oestrogen-like agonist actions to complete blockade of oestrogen action. This complexity is consistent with the various, and sometimes paradoxical, effects that have been associated with tamoxifen administration in animals and humans.

The most frequent side-effects of tamoxifen administration are hot flushes and vaginal discharge. Tamoxifen has effects on the human uterus, inducing atrophy, hyperplasia and, less frequently, polyps. Randomized placebo-controlled trials revealed a slight increase of thromboembolic events, but also a protective effect regarding myocardial diseases, according to hospital admission rates and deaths. Tamoxifen administration has been shown to decrease blood total cholesterol and low-density lipoprotein-cholesterol concentrations in a number of studies. Several preliminary trials have suggested mildly positive effects of tamoxifen in preserving bone mineral density in postmenopausal women, but much longer follow-up is required to confirm t his potentially beneficial effect.

The acute toxicity of tamoxifen in experimental animals is low. In repeated-dose studies in rats, tamoxifen induced hypertrophy, but not cell proliferation, in the endometrial epithelium; endometrial hyperplasia was, however, reported in mice. Furthermore squamous metaplasia and atrophy of the uterine epithelium was observed in chronic studies in rats. Induction of cytochromes P450 and preneoplastic lesions have been detected in the livers of rats.

Ocular toxicity, including lipidosis of the retina and cornea and increased incidence of cataract, was reported in studies in rats of chronic exposure to tamoxifen.

In the presence of human, mouse, rat and hamster microsomes, tamoxifen binds covalently to protein. Tamoxifen has oestrogenic effects on human fetal genital tracts grown in athymic mice. In rats, doses above 2 mg/kg body weight produce irregular ossification of ribs in the fetus, which is thought to be secondary to reduction of the size of the uterus of the dam. No effects on the fetus have been reported in rabbits, marmosets or cynomolgus monkeys.

There is no direct evidence that tamoxifen is active in tests for gene mutation. Evidence for the genotoxic potential of tamoxifen is supported by data obtained on DNA adduct formation in rodent liver cells in vitro and in vivo, and in rodent and human liver microsomal systems; on unscheduled DNA synthesis in rat hepatocytes in vitro; and on the induction of clastogenic events both in vitro, in genetically-engineered human cells, and in vivo in rat liver.

There is evidence from 32P-postlabelling studies that three metabolites, (a-hydroxytamoxifen, 4-hydroxytamoxifen and (Z)-1,2-diphenyl-1-(4-hydroxyphenyl)but-1-ene (metabolite E) can be further metabolized to products that react with DNA. The major DNA adduct formed in rodent liver cells has been identified as (E)-(a-(N2-deoxyguanosinyl) tamoxifen. Human hepatocytes do not form detectable DNA adducts when treated in vitro with tamoxifen; they form 300-fold lower levels of adducts than rat and mouse hepatocytes when treated with a-hydroxytamoxifen.

Preliminary studies indicate that tamoxifen does not give rise to detectable levels of DNA adducts in human liver in vivo or in human endometrium in vitro and in vivo.

Mechanistic considerations

Tamoxifen increases liver tumour incidence in rats, which may involve both DNA damage leading to increased numbers of initiated cells and oestrogen receptor-mediated clonal expansion of those initiated cells.

The available evidence suggests that tamoxifen is carcinogenic in rat liver by a genotoxic mechanism. Preliminary information from studies of human tissues suggests that humans are less susceptible to the genotoxicity of tamoxifen. Tamoxifen also possesses tumour-promoting activity in the rat liver.

Several studies have shown that the liver contains significant quantities of oestrogen receptor in hepatocytes, Kupffer cells and endothelial cells.

Tamoxifen acts as an oestrogen agonist and/or antagonist by binding directly to the oestrogen receptor. In some tissues, such as breast, tamoxifen exhibits antioestrogenic properties by binding to the oestrogen receptor with high affinity. The tamoxifen-oestrogen receptor complex is incapable of binding to DNA-responsive elements. Thus, oestrogen receptor binding does not result in normal transcriptional activity. In other tissues, such as bone and liver, tamoxifen acts as a partial agonist, possibly because cells from those tissues contain a different array of DNA binding sites, thereby leading to typical oestrogen-mediated changes in gene expression and subsequent biological effects on growth and differentiation. Therefore, tissue-specific effects of tamoxifen-oestrogen receptor on gene expression may be involved in the ability of tamoxifen to increase or decrease tumour risk.

5.5 Evaluation

There is sufficient evidence in humans for the carcinogenicity of tamoxifen in increasing the risk for endometrial cancer and there is conclusive evidence that tamoxifen reduces the risk for contralateral breast cancer in women with a previous diagnosis of breast cancer.

There is inadequate evidence in humans for the carcinogenicity of tamoxifen in other organs.

There is sufficient evidence in experimental animals for the carcinogenicity of tamoxifen.

Overall evaluation

Tamoxifen is carcinogenic to humans (Group 1) and there is conclusive evidence that tamoxifen reduces the risk of contralateral breast cancer.

(Dr Cuzick dissociated himself from the evaluation process because he considered that the range of evaluation statements available within the framework of the Monographs was not suitable for this agent.)

For definition of the italicized terms, see Preamble Evaluation

Synonyms for Tamoxifen

* 1-para-b-Dimethylaminoethoxyphenyl-trans-1,2-diphenylbut-1-ene
* (Z)-2-[4-(1,2-Diphenylbut-1-enyl)phenoxy]ethyldimethylamine 

Synonyms for Tamoxifen citrate

* Apo-Tamox
* Citofen
* Dignotamoxi
* Duratamoxifen 5
* Emblon
* ICI-46474
* Jenoxifen
* Kessar
* Ledertam
* Noltam
* Nolvadex 
* Nourytam
* Novofen
* Oestrifen
* Oncotam
* Retaxim
* Tafoxen
* Tam
* Tamaxin
* Tamifen
* Tamofen
* Tamone
* Tamoplex
* Tamoxasta
* Tamox-Gry
* Z-Tamoxifen citrate
* Tamoxigenat
* Tamox-Puren
* Taxfeno
* Terimon
* Valodex
* Zemide
* Zitazonium 

Last updated 05/22/97

----------


## BJJ

After this deep researches, I need a break!

I have a question for those experienced with AAS while training.
Basically, today I did for the first time after many months, so I did not remember which weights I used to lift, the Dumbell Flies (Outer Pectorals).
I started with 22kgs and made 10 reps but I felt tired at the end. I thought that weight could be correct to keep going but then I decided to increase it to 24kgs, after all I am using anavar ! WTF
So, each time I ended the 10 reps I added 2 kgs more and after 4 sets I reached 28 kgs (62 lbs, where I felt I was starting to use my shoulders to help).

Is this normal? I mean to start with a weight and just going up adding more even though it seemed the previous weight was enough?
Thank you.

----------


## BJJ

Today anavar made me happy indeed.
I used to lift (naturally) 28kgs 1 rep dumbbell curl (per arm), so 61 lbs.
I did the same weight but I made 4 sets of 8 reps and I am on day 27, not bad!

Furthermore, a guy who knows me a bit asked me what I am using not because I am bigger then used to be but because of the strength increase.
I told him I am using a mixture of powder creatine and liquid creatine...

I am in trouble now, he wants to do it too!  :1laugh: 
 :Haha:

----------


## elpropiotorvic

Ha ... Getting called out sir... Say protein baby protein

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## BJJ

.....

----------


## BJJ

.....

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## BJJ

I am having some pangs on my rear part of the lower back.
It happened already sometimes during the last ten days but today it's bothering more than usual and it's persistent.
Anyone experienced in this before?
Yesterday, I added proviron at 50mg ed.

----------


## fig

Pics look good BJJ. Keep it up man!!!!

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## BJJ

> Pics look good BJJ. Keep it up man!!!!


thx  :1seeyah:

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## BJJ

*Day1*
60 oxa - 3.436 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day2*
60 oxa - 3.550 Kcal - (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Bursts of Heat

*Day3*
60 oxa - 3.199 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness

*Day4*
60 oxa - 3.340 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, 4 mg Loperamide

*Day5*
60 oxa - 2.799 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, Yellow Skin (left biceps & shoulder), 4 mg Loperamide, 25.000 iu Neomycin

*Day6*
60 oxa - 3.646 Kcal - (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Tiredness, Yellow Skin, 1 gr Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day7*
60 oxa - 3.912 Kcal - (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Yellow Skin, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.411

1ST WEEK NOTES
The first week was very hard to go through. No will to eat at all and lots of problem to understand if the diarrhea was due from oxandrolone or liv.52; also I got a persistent sore throat.
The strength increase was considerable, especially on legs and shoulders.
As daily supplements throughout the cycle: (Multi Vitamins/Minerals 1 tb, Vitamin C/Ester 3 gr, EFA complex 6 gr, ALA 600 mg, LIV.52 2 tabs, CLA 4 gr, ZMA, Tribulus Terrestris 3 gr, Chromium Picolinate 400 mcg, Acetyl L-Carnitine 600 mg, Coenzyme Q10, Glutamine 35 gr, BCAA 20 gr, MT Gakic Hardcore 8 tbs (only before w/o), UN Animal Flex 1 pckt.

*Day 8*
60 oxa - 2.415 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite,Tiredness, 25.000 iu Neomycin, 4 mg Loperamide, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

*Day 9*
60 oxa - 3.400 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 10*
60 oxa - 2.760 Kcal - (Cardio 35’)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 11*
60 oxa - 4.208 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Oxandrolone kicked in

*Day 12*
60 oxa - 3.332 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 13*
60 oxa - 3.645 Kcal - (Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 14*
60 oxa - 3.976 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.392

2ND WEEK NOTES
At day 11 finally Anavar showed me its potentiality by improving my strength incredibly. Not only the power to lift was improved but also the reps needed to exhaust the muscles.
Furthermore, I am starving again especially after the work-outs.
The diarrhea was given by Liv.52. I solved the problem by taking only 1 tab in the morning.

*Day 15*
60 oxa – 3.698 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 16*
60 oxa – 3.645 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

Updated Stats (from the beginning):
BW: 94,5 kg (207,9 lbs) *+8,62%*, BF: 14% *+8,52%*, WTR: 63,6% *+0,63%*, EMM: 77,3 kg (170,6 lbs) *+5,17%*
(data given by Tanita BC-418)

*Day 17*
60 oxa – 3.591 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Diarrhea, 4 mg Loperamide

*Day 18*
60 oxa – 3.016 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

_Blood & Urine analyses results to be compared with the ones taken before the cycle._

CHOLESTEROL TTL: 168 mg/dl (after: 179)
CHOLESTEROL HDL: 41 mg/dl (after: *13*) (range >=40)
INDEX RISK HDL: 4,1 (after: *13,76*) (range till 5)
CHOLESTEROL LDL: 105 mg/dl (after: *157*) (range 130-159, elevated borderline)
BILIRUBIN TTL: *1,98* mg/dl (after: *0,83*) (range 0,2-1)
BILIRUBIN DIRECT: 0,22 mg/dl (after: 0,1) (range 0,05-0,3)
BILIRUBIN INDIRECT: *1,76* mg/dl (after: *0,73*) (range till 0,7)
CREATININE: 1,2 mg/dl (after: 1,2) (range 0,8-1,3)
AZOTEMIA: *49* mg/dl (after: *62*) (range 15-40)
AMYLASE: 62 u/ltr (after: 55) (range 25-115)
TRANSAMINASE GPT/ALT: 41 u/ltr (after: *86*) (range 30-65)
TRANSAMINASE GOT/AST: 21 u/ltr (after: *55*) (range 15-37)
GAMMA (YGT): 28 u/ltr (after: 29) (range 15-85)
INSULIN : 3,34 micru/ml (after: 3,6) (range 1,9-23)
IGF1: (184) (range 96-424)
TESTOSTERONE TTL: 3,86 ng/ml (after: *0,72*) (range 1,75-7,81)
TESTOSTERONE FREE: 11,7 pg/ml (after: *5,2*) (range 8-47)
SHBG: 38 pg/ml (after: *10*) (range 13-71)
FSH: 2,92 micru/ml (after: 2,09) (range 1,27-19,26)
LH: 3,80 miu/ml (after: 2,19) (range 1,24-8,62)
DHEAS: 191 mcg/dl (after: 209) (range 106-464)
HGH: 0,2 ng/ml (after: <0,1) (range 0,0-10)

COLOUR: straw-coloured
APPEARANCE: *lightly opalescent* (after: *lightly opalescent*) (limpid)
PH REACTION: 5,5 (after: 6)
SPECIFIC WEIGHT: 1020 (after: 1016)
PROTEINS: none mg/dl (after: none)
HEMOGLOBIN: none (after: *present +*) (none)
GLUCOSE: none gr/litre (after: none)
KETONE BODIES: none (after: none)
UROBILINOGEN: none mg/dl (after: none)
BILIARY PIGMENTS: none (after: none)
NITRITE: none (after: none)


*Day 19*
60 oxa – 3.125 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 20*
60 oxa – 3.332 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, 400 mg Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day 21*
60 oxa – 3.129 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, Headache, 2 gr Paracetamol, 500 mg Acetylcysteine Antibiotic, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.362

3RD WEEK NOTES
I understood that the best time to take oxandrolone is after the meals, not before or during, otherwise I get diarrhea and this apart from ingesting Liv.52.
Unfortunately, I got a bit sick yesterday and today is even worse. Every year I suffer from sinusitis which I hope to cure as fast as possible.
In regards of the results of blood analyses above reported, my bilirubin values decreased within the normal range, as expected. Oxandrolone seems "to cure" Gilberts's syndrome (which I have).
Of course, either LDL, HDL and Transaminase went up; as well as azotemia which was already a bit higher and surely it could not start declining during the cycle.
Strangely, creatinine stayed at the same level but this is good in relation with azotemia.
What I do not understand are the values related to LH, FSH and HGH compared with DHEAS. Hopefully my endocrinologist, if not someone in here before, will explain this issue.

*Day 22*
60 oxa – 5.096 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, Diarrhea, 100 mg Nimesulide, 500 mg Acetylcysteine Antibiotic, 600 mg Acetylcysteine, 25.000 iu Neomycin, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 23*
60 oxa – 4.003 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 24*
60 oxa – 3.650 Kcal – (Back)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 25*
60 oxa – 4.021 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 26*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 4.374 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 27*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 5.338 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Libido is Back, Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 28*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.071 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 4.221

4TH WEEK NOTES
Fortunately sinusitis, which I had between day 20/22, went away quickly.
At day 26 I added 3 gr of Tribulus Terrestris daily.
Since also from day 26 I am ingesting Mesterolone, my libido in back and I have very hard erections. Furthermore, I feel I can last longer while having sex.
My daily Kcalories intake was brought up to more than 4.000 (just checking how much fat I will store comparing to when I was eating/training the same, naturally).
This afternoon I underwent a full abdominal echography to see the overall situation and try to figure out if the pang I felt sometimes around my lower back was due to a kidney problem. The response was negative, all the organs are fine and was told it might be a problem related to training, probably a muscular micro-lesion less than 1mm, therefore not visible.
The persistent sore throat, reported at week 1, it is still there.

----------


## ythrashin

> Because I have The Gilbert's syndrome.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert%27s_syndrome


Would Methyltestosterone be a feasible option for you or perhaps some other oral or transdermal testosterone ?

----------


## BJJ

> Would Methyltestosterone be a feasible option for you or perhaps some other oral or transdermal testosterone?


I have no issue in running testosterone enanthate or any other injectable compounds. The Gilbert's syndrome is not a contraindication for using aas injectable.
My issue was referring to the possible and unpredictable interactions between drugs (oxa + test) which may have led to wrong conclusions about my liver "strength" to overcome the stress related by oxandrolone.

However, my cycle is not over yet and final conclusions cannot be taken till the end has come.

In a couple of days I will check my stats again to see how the whole of the calories I have been eating, might have effected my body fat composition.
Curious to see how powerful this drug is to prevent fat storage.

----------


## elpropiotorvic

U should take b complex not too much ... Chromium piccolinate competes for absorption with b complex

----------


## BJJ

> U should take b complex not too much ... Chromium piccolinate competes for absorption with b complex


I was unaware about this, though I knew that chrome competes with the iron to link with the transferrin, a protein that provides the transportation in the blood of the iron mobilized from the "warehouses". An overdose of chronic chromium picolinate could therefore foster frameworks anemic.

I'll check about the b complex info deeply, thanks.
Also, if you have any link post it, pls.

----------


## lovbyts

See yet another great reason for having a good post/log like this. You/we will learn a lot for all our benifits in the future even if we don't do an Anvar cycle it's all good information to know.

Thanks again BJJ and fellow contributors.

----------


## BJJ

> See yet another great reason for having a good post/log like this. You/we will learn a lot for all our benifits in the future even if we don't do an Anvar cycle it's all good information to know.
> 
> Thanks again BJJ and fellow contributors.


Thank YOU for noticing my effort.

----------


## elpropiotorvic

Actually my bad... It was iron ...but if u combine it with b complex u will enhance glucose uptake in skeletal muscle cells

----------


## BJJ

> Actually my bad... It was iron ...but if u combine it with b complex u will enhance glucose uptake in skeletal muscle cells


OK then because I was not able to find anything regarding your previous post.
Thanks for telling me.  :Welcome:

----------


## elpropiotorvic

That's what happens when u post on a ruch from iPhone at work with boss constantli walking around ur desk  :Smilie:  sorry

----------


## BJJ

> That's what happens when u post on a ruch from iPhone at work with boss constantli walking around ur desk  sorry


no problem man...  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## BJJ

So today I ate a lot, 5.723 Kcal, my new daily record.

Throughout the day, I did 1 hour of heavy work-out shoulders, also 40' of gymnastics and at the end 1 hour of bjj (just fights, 5' each and 2' rest).
I felt, while showering a couple of hours ago, some tenderness in my elbows.
Also, this was my fourth day of continuous training without any rest.
Tomorrow, I'll need a break.

*After all, how can I understand which are my new limits if I do not reach them!? *

----------


## fig

> See yet another great reason for having a good post/log like this. You/we will learn a lot for all our benifits in the future even if we don't do an Anvar cycle it's all good information to know.
> 
> Thanks again BJJ and fellow contributors.


Agree

----------


## elpropiotorvic

> So today I ate a lot, 5.723 Kcal, my new daily record.
> 
> Throughout the day, I did 1 hour of heavy work-out shoulders, also 40' of gymnastics and at the end 1 hour of bjj (just fights, 5' each and 2' rest).
> I felt, while showering a couple of hours ago, some tenderness in my elbows.
> Also, this was my fourth day of continuous training without any rest.
> Tomorrow, I'll need a break.
> 
> *After all, how can I understand which are my new limits if I do not reach them!? *


I miss those warrior workouts

----------


## BJJ

> I miss those warrior workouts


why? can't you do it anymore?

----------


## fig

> So today I ate a lot, 5.723 Kcal, my new daily record.
> 
> Throughout the day, I did 1 hour of heavy work-out shoulders, also 40' of gymnastics and at the end 1 hour of bjj (just fights, 5' each and 2' rest).
> I felt, while showering a couple of hours ago, some tenderness in my elbows.
> Also, this was my fourth day of continuous training without any rest.
> Tomorrow, I'll need a break.
> 
> *After all, how can I understand which are my new limits if I do not reach them!? *


Hey I missed this...what do you do for gymnastics? I was a gymnast for 20 years. Competed in college, then 2 years after college.

----------


## elpropiotorvic

> why? can't you do it anymore?


Absolutely no time... School and work full time (48 hours a week) 

And martial arts are expEnsive to train ... I could train on my own have a bb in shaolin but the truth is that I'm debating myself wether to do it or not because there are lots lots of rumors about the ppl that taught me being Quakers... Now that being said they taught me nothing wrong... In fact fl( u being a martial artist) it's prob one of the most imp parts in my life... 
But if the rumors are truth they have been running a scam for way too long... And good for me that I decided to not be a misioner because then I'd be living to teach that... And at the same time they provide no evidence showing that they are not Quakers ... One thing I know is that the ppl I trained with are prob the best athletes I have known, till the point I strongly think they would be victorius matched against any top fighter with fame

----------


## BJJ

> Hey I missed this...what do you do for gymnastics? I was a gymnast for 20 years. Competed in college, then 2 years after college.


20 Years of experience, not bad at all!
Can you do the mortal jump?

I do reverse push-ups (upside down I mean) at the bar, circle at the bar, flexibility exercises at the parallelepiped, handstand at the parallel bars, shoulders rotations on the rings and rope climbing without legs.

Nothing much I would say but the issue for me is to able able to keep doing those exercises even with the weight increase.

----------


## elpropiotorvic

If ur running var I think u should be able to keep up with them once u burn the fat

----------


## BJJ

> Absolutely no time... School and work full time (48 hours a week) 
> 
> And martial arts are expEnsive to train ... I could train on my own have a bb in shaolin but the truth is that I'm debating myself wether to do it or not because there are lots lots of rumors about the ppl that taught me being Quakers... Now that being said they taught me nothing wrong... In fact fl( u being a martial artist) it's prob one of the most imp parts in my life... 
> But if the rumors are truth they have been running a scam for way too long... And good for me that I decided to not be a misioner because then I'd be living to teach that... And at the same time they provide no evidence showing that they are not Quakers ... One thing I know is that the ppl I trained with are prob the best athletes I have known, till the point I strongly think they would be victorius matched against any top fighter with fame


Then, which will be your decision, at the end...?

----------


## BJJ

> If ur running var I think u should be able to keep up with them once u burn the fat


Well actually I can still do almost all them, in spite of the fat increase.

----------


## fig

> 20 Years of experience, not bad at all!
> Can you do the mortal jump?
> 
> I do reverse push-ups (upside down I mean) at the bar, circle at the bar, flexibility exercises at the parallelepiped, handstand at the parallel bars, shoulders rotations on the rings and rope climbing without legs.
> 
> Nothing much I would say but the issue for me is to able able to keep doing those exercises even with the weight increase.


Had to look up mortal jump...we call it a standing back tuck, but yes I can. Also do it piked and straight body. Not sure where you're from but around here men's gymnastics is generally unappreciated and under-respected. It is tremendously difficult but commonly regarded as gay or feminine until someone really takes time to understand it. First week of school each year new football players would give weird looks but after a few weeks they were in our gym trying to keep up; we always got a ton of respect from ALL the athletes.

Anyway, try to learn circles on a mushroom if you have one and eventually on the pommel horse. They are great for abs and delts. Also, planche exercises are probably the best thing to do for delts. For lats, try some cross strength on rings...you won't be able to hold, but lower as slowly as you can for 3-10 reps, depending on your ability. L holds are good for abs on parallel bars, can also try to press to handstand. 

There's a ton of stuff. If you want to train something specifically, send me a PM. I don't want to hijack your thread anymore than I already have. Anyone else is more than welcome to also. No flames though. I dealt with that shit most of my childhood. Despite popular belief, 99% of male gymnasts are straight, myself included.

----------


## BJJ

> Had to look up mortal jump...we call it a standing back tuck, *sorry i did not know the correct word to name it* but yes I can. Also do it piked and straight body. Not sure where you're from *italy* but around here men's gymnastics is generally unappreciated and under-respected *totally unacceptable*. It is tremendously difficult but commonly regarded as gay or feminine until someone really takes time to understand it *ignorance plays a role*. First week of school each year new football players would give weird looks but after a few weeks they were in our gym trying to keep up; we always got a ton of respect from ALL the athletes.
> 
> Anyway, try to learn circles on a mushroom if you have one and eventually on the pommel horse *i have the second one but i cannot make it really, yet*. They are great for abs and delts. Also, planche exercises are probably the best thing to do for delts. For lats, try some cross strength on rings...you won't be able to hold *i know!*, but lower as slowly as you can for 3-10 reps, depending on your ability. L holds are good for abs on parallel bars, can also try to press to handstand. 
> 
> There's a ton of stuff. If you want to train something specifically, send me a PM. I don't want to hijack your thread anymore than I already have *you did not*. Anyone else is more than welcome to also. No flames though. I dealt with that shit most of my childhood. Despite popular belief, 99% of male gymnasts are straight, myself included.


You spoke about athletes before.
IMO, a real athlete is one who can perform something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9nQzmq7bQ (look at how long he held the cross!)

I would love to have that *REAL* power!!!  :Shrug: 

PS
When I work-out and at the end I do some of the above reported exercises (mine I mean) people do look strange at me because I am no "short" like Yuri...
but still I can accomplish some "goody" result.  :AaGreen22: 
and you know what they can all do...  :Asskiss:

----------


## elpropiotorvic

> Then, which will be your decision, at the end...?


I am going to keep focusing on what I do know... Studying and developing myself in a new country... I need to focus a lot in my studies and plan to start a business in the next five to ten years so I'll keep it in hold, I am only seeing my master in 6 years so I'll be on hold for thatlong ... I have a lot of work todo... New life new country... 1yr baby ... New career ...

----------


## BJJ

> I am going to keep focusing on what I do know... Studying and developing myself in a new country... I need to focus a lot in my studies and plan to start a business in the next five to ten years so I'll keep it in hold, I am only seeing my master in 6 years so I'll be on hold for thatlong ... I have a lot of work todo...* New life new country... 1yr baby ... New career ...*


I know what that means.
Good Luck

----------


## BJJ

So, today I added 10 mg more of oxandrolone to bring the ttl daily intake to 70 mg, so divided:
30 breakfast, 20 lunch, 20 dinner, while I'll keep mesterolone at 50 mg.

Yesterday I ate too late, 23:30, and took oxa around midnight. I had problem to fall asleep so I believe I need to take the last tabs at dinner time around 8/8:30 and in case I came late because of JJ, have to carry it with.

----------


## fig

> You spoke about athletes before.
> IMO, a real athlete is one who can perform something like this:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9nQzmq7bQ (look at how long he held the cross!)
> 
> I would love to have that *REAL* power!!! 
> 
> PS
> When I work-out and at the end I do some of the above reported exercises (mine I mean) people do look strange at me because I am no "short" like Yuri...
> but still I can accomplish some "goody" result. 
> and you know what they can all do...


Chechi is a LEGEND!! I used to hold a cross for 3-4 seconds, no way I could hold that long though! Chechi only retired a few years ago. 

Chechi 2004 Olympic FINALS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aSN7u6JMNA

This is the big name in Italy right now (I used to do his dismount):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLjrFHRQaAk

Current Ring God:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftLI0pgrfQc

And my personal fav:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwhCSFYULks

Enjoy  :AaGreen22:

----------


## BJJ

Something else, tomorrow morning I am going to the hospital to have a talk to my endo in regards of the hemoglobin which was found in my last urine test.

Hemoglobine should not be there, so I am going to figure out the reason, hopefully.

----------


## BJJ

> Chechi is a LEGEND!! I used to hold a cross for 3-4 seconds, no way I could hold that long though! Chechi only retired a few years ago. 
> 
> Chechi 2004 Olympic FINALS:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aSN7u6JMNA
> 
> This is the big name in Italy right now (I used to do his dismount):
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLjrFHRQaAk
> 
> Current Ring God:
> ...


Thanks man, great stuff!

Just I cannot watch the last one unfortunately, I get:
_"This video is not available in your country due to copyright restrictions"_  :2nono: 

WTF  :Icon Pissedoff:

----------


## Pilosox

First of all congratulations for all your posts and exact count of caloric intake and progess, it is very helpfull for everybody.

i just want to know if those levels of Testosterone will rise again with the PCT you proposed (clomid - tamoxifene)??
How old are you?

cheers from chile

----------


## BJJ

> First of all congratulations for all your posts and exact count of caloric intake and progess, it is very helpfull for everybody.
> 
> i just want to know if those levels of Testosterone will rise again with the PCT you proposed (clomid - tamoxifene)??
> How old are you?
> 
> cheers from chile


The meaning of this thread is to help, so thank you.

In regards of nolva/clomid, they should of course rise up your own test production, that is the reason why a pct is needed in this case.
Do not know yet if clomiphene will be enough, though.
I am 36yo.

----------


## BJJ

So this morning I was in the hospital to speak with my endo who advised me to stick with 2 weeks clomiphene 50 mg ed as pct and no tamoxifene at all, since no estrogen related problems can develop with the use of oxandrolone. So, under his own opinion using nolva in a pct after a cyle of oxandrolone could cause more damage then help.

My testicles did not shrink at all so far but even if they had to, he was against the use of hcg during the cycle. Too risky for development of testicular malignant tumour.

Also, the little hemoglobine in my urine is/was due to the high intensity of training. No big deal then.

In any case, at the end of the first week on november I'll check again my blood, urine and sperm.
Then, I'll decide about my final pct.

----------


## BJJ

New daily intake personal record:
5.999 Kcal

538 gr protides (18,98 oz)
91.6 gr lipides (3,23 oz)
741 gr glucides (26,13 oz)

Relation between pro/glu at 0,72, not bad at all. I wish I could be that precise every day!
Today I trained my legs for a ttl of 25 sets.

----------


## BJJ

So, today I felt a bit tired and had problems to eat as usual.
I won't take my 1000 Kcal shake before bed time, so my ttl daily calories will drop but I want to see if tomorrow morning this "difference" will make more hungry than used to be so far.

----------


## ythrashin

> My testicles did not shrink at all so far but even if they had to, he was against the use of hcg during the cycle. Too risky for development of testicular malignant tumour.


I beleive you misunderstood him or your endo is misinformed.... HCG does not cause Testicular cancer. 

HCG is only a "marker" for some Testicular tumors. 

Do a search and you'll see that is the only relationship between the 2

----------


## BJJ

> I beleive you misunderstood him or your endo is misinformed.... HCG does not cause Testicular cancer. 
> 
> HCG is only a "marker" for some Testicular tumors. 
> 
> Do a search and you'll see that is the only relationship between the 2


High dosages of HCG injections in men can cause an istologic decay of the testicles, which "may" then lead to a testicular malignant tumour development.

This was just a general issue information since in my case (anavar ) no related problem has never been reported, as far as I am concerned.

I was not precise in my previous post, I am glad you made me notice this.

PS
By the way, my endo is "gone" since he advised me to increase my daily intake of oxandrolone of 10 mg just (I have known later on), because he was about of using my case for a publication on a monthly Italian scientific journal.
I was unaware of this! and if I knew I would disagree.

Furthermore...

----------


## BJJ

The back pain on the lumbar right region has increased since I added 10 mg of anavar daily. The pain disappears while training and comes back during the rest part of the day.
Also, the abdominal ecography was fine but the pain has increased.

I shall go tomorrow morning to take new blood analyses instead of waiting one more week and compare the results with the ones taken at day 18, tomorrow will be day 33.
If the values got worse in spite of my diet improvement regarding mineral water and good fats intake, I am going to end the 5th week of oxandrolone and start the required pct.

Health at FIRST.

----------


## elpropiotorvic

Maybe u have been training for long and need a week of or something

----------


## BJJ

> Maybe u have been training for long and need a week of or something


I hope you are right and that it's just a muscolar problem.

----------


## BJJ

> let us know about the bloodwork


The blood analyses said oxandrolone and this is the certificate I got with the drug.

----------


## ythrashin

> High dosages of HCG injections in men can cause an istologic decay of the testicles, which "may" then lead to a testicular malignant tumour development.


I see... I've never hear of the "istologic decay". I have heard of HCG causing "leydig cell desensitization" when mega dosing with HCG. Perhaps "istologic decay" is just another term for that...

Thats why peeps shouldn't use more then 500iu twice a week or 250iu EOD of HCG so leydig cell desensitization doesnt happen. 

The guys that try to "Shock" their testes when using HCG in PCT at 1000iu+ at one time are doing more harm then good...

----------


## Trying to bench 200

Hey BJJ thanks for making this log its really informed me about anavar  :Welcome: 

Anyways, you should keep a log on how your bench is. Its an easy way to tell how much muscle your building. Thanks!  :7up:  :7up:  :7up:

----------


## BJJ

> Hey BJJ thanks for making this log its really informed me about anavar 
> 
> Anyways, you should keep a log on how your bench is. Its an easy way to tell how much muscle your building. Thanks!


Thank you, I appreciate it.

As per the log regarding "bench", I disagree would be an easy way to see how much muscles I am building. Too many factors may induce more strength in one day and less in others.

So, at the end of the cycle, I'll undergo a new BMI (the one before cycle is visible at post n.2) and then it will be clear how much muscles I have put on and especially where. My guess is legs, since it was the weakest part.

PS
The log you were taking about will be put soon on since it is an important information, as you meant.

----------


## BJJ

> ...Perhaps "istologic decay" is just another term for that...


I wish I could ask him but since what happened with that pusillanimous, I guess it will remain an "unasked query".

Though, some vets could intervene and clarify but I see none of them around this thread, unfortunately.

----------


## BJJ

> *Day1*
> 60 oxa - 3.436 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
> Sides & Notes: Nil
> 
> *Day2*
> 60 oxa - 3.550 Kcal - (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
> Sides & Notes: Bursts of Heat
> 
> *Day3*
> ...


*Day 29*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 5.723 Kcal – (Shoulders, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Problems to fall asleep because I took the last tabs of Oxandrolone around midnight, 2 gr Ketoprofen foam, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 30*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 4.790 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 2 gr Ketoprofen foam

*Day 31*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 5.999 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 32*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.461 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Diarrhea, 4 mg Loperamide, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 33*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 2.763 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 200 mg Nimesulide, 4 gr Ketoprofen foam

*Day 34*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 4.321 Kcal – (Chest & Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 35*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.973 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Diarrhea, 100 mg Nimesulide

Updated Stats (from day 16, where I reached with this cycle, my previous natural limit):

Body Weigth: 98,9 kg (217,6 lbs) *+4,66%*
Body Fat: 14,6% *+4,29%*
Water: 63,8% *+0,31%*
Estimated Muscle Mass: 80,3 kg (170,6 lbs) *+3,88%*

New BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate): 2.485 Kcal
(data given by Tanita BC-418)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 4.432

5TH WEEK NOTES
So, in 19 days I took 6,6 lbs of lean mass (estimate) while fat increased a bit more but still under control (considering also I am not eating low glycemic index carbs at all) and water kept at the same value.
I would say so far, oxandrolone is showing its ability to increase the lean mass controlling either the fat and the water.
I am quite satisfied because I think I can easily go down to 12% bf retaining most of the lean mass acquired. I will act so the last ten days of the cycle. Till that time, I want to continue eating that much calories and proteins. Perhaps I can start eating more oats instead of pasta and rice!!! :Chairshot: 

At day 30 I started to ingest 10 mg more of Oxandrolone daily, for a total of 70 mg.
At day 35 I went back to 60 mg since I noticed no differences at all and the back pain on the lumbar right region came back again in a vigorous way. I am getting tired of this also because in spite of the echography I took lastly (which was fine), the pain is always there and seems to get worse after I ingest Oxandrolone. I had no possibility, as previously stated, to go taking blood analyses a few days ago, but I’ll go tomorrow morning. I want to see if the values related to the liver and the kidneys have stabilized or not. In negative case, it could be an explanation for the pain. Surely, I cannot keep taking nimesulide to get rid of the pain since it is very liver toxic too and gives diarrhea.
Strength keeps increasing.
The persistent sore throat, reported at week 1, it is finally gone.

----------


## BJJ

.....

----------


## BJJ

> Anyways, you should keep a log on how your bench is. Its an easy way to tell how much muscle your building. Thanks!


Strength Update at Day 37 (8 reps by myself):

Squat Multipower (legs) 100 kg (220 lbs) *NOW* 130 kg (286 lbs) *+30%*
Lat Machine (back) 80 kg (176 lbs) *NOW* 90 kg (198 lbs) *+12,5%*
Bench Press with Dumbbells (chest) 30 kg each (66 lbs) *NOW* 36 kg (79,2) *+20%*
Military Press with Dumbbells (shoulders) 24 kg each (52,8 lbs) *NOW* 30 kg (66 lbs)*+25%*
Dumbbells Curls (biceps - seated) 24 kg each (52,8 lbs) *NOW* 30 kg (66 lbs) *+25%*
Dumbbells Curls (triceps - lying down) 18 kg each (39,6 lbs) *NOW* 22 kg (48,4 lbs) *+22,2%*

----------


## Batm0n

I have throughly enjoyed reading your post BJJ. It has been educational. I have a question for you guys. 

I am 31 yrs, 15% BF and take in about 1,800 calories a day (looking to drop from 200 to 185). I train BJJ and Muay Thai 4 days a week (in which I am burning close to 4,000 calories a week). I will be starting a cycle of Var ( I only ordered 500Mg) and was thinking of adding Winny to it. 

I am not some uneducated kid, I have been a gym rat for over 10 yrs and have a M.S. in Biology and M.Ed. I am just looking for some advise on how to split it up. Ex. 20mg a day to start then up it to 40mg. or 5mg for a week then 10mg a week then 20mg a week. I would just like to know what is the best way to use the 500 mg that I have along with some winny.... 

Thanks gentleman

----------


## BJJ

> I have throughly enjoyed reading your post BJJ. It has been educational. I have a question for you guys. 
> 
> I am 31 yrs, 15% BF and take in about 1,800 calories a day (looking to drop from 200 to 185). I train BJJ and Muay Thai 4 days a week (in which I am burning close to 4,000 calories a week). I will be starting a cycle of Var ( I only ordered 500Mg) and was thinking of adding Winny to it. 
> 
> I am not some uneducated kid, I have been a gym rat for over 10 yrs and have a M.S. in Biology and M.Ed. I am just looking for some advise on how to split it up. Ex. 20mg a day to start then up it to 40mg. or 5mg for a week then 10mg a week then 20mg a week. I would just like to know what is the best way to use the 500 mg that I have along with some winny.... 
> 
> Thanks gentleman


First thank you for noticing my effort.

Then, I believe you need more than 500 mg of var, simply because using a medium dose (the one I am using) of 60 mg ed, in just 8 days you'll ran out of it.

I have no knowledge to answer your question about winny but for sure I tell you what you have ordered is too less, whatever cycle you will accomplish.

Furthermore, what is your height?

----------


## Batm0n

5' 10"

----------


## BJJ

> 5' 10"


31 yo, 5'10, 200 lbs and 15% bf.
You are very muscled then.

So, assuming your current weight and fat percentage is correct, I believe you eat too less.
Your Imperial BMR should be around 1980 Kcal per day!
You said you are eating 1800 Kcal per day and burning 4000 Kcal weekly with martial arts activities.

Simplifying:

Eat 1800 Kcal per day * 7 = 12600 Kcal weekly
BMR (daily) 1980 Kcal * 7 = 13860 Kcal weekly
MMA = 4000 Kcal weekly

At the end of a week you lose: (12600-13860-4000) = *5260 Kcal* (estimate)

Furthemore, I just considered your BMR and MMA activity but I presume you also do other things during a week, so more calories to be burned by your organism.

In just two months I believe you wouldn't be able to train anymore 4 times a week...

I believe you need to review the data you posted and surely, if the data is correct, I advise you NOT to take any AAS, because you do not eat enough.

----------


## BJJ

Efficacy and interactions of oxandrolone, halo-fenate and clofibrate in a factorial study on experimental acute nephrotic hyperlipidemia.

_GJ Schapel and KD Edwards_

Nephrotic mixed hyperlipidemia may be associated with accelerated coronary artery disease. To investigate the response of experimental nephrotic hyperlipidemia to therapy, a 2(4) factorial study of sodium clofibrate and beta-benzalbutyrate, halofenate and oxandrolone (250, 150, 100 and 10 mg/kg/day, respectively) was carried out. Nephrotic syndrome was induced by a single i.p. injection of puromycin aminonucleoside (90 mg/kg) in 80 female white rats of average weight 160 g. Oxandrolone proved to be significantly hypotriglyceridemic in combined therapy (average fall, 38%; P less than .05), and also lowered serum total cholesterol and phospholipid concentrations (23% and 21% falls, P less than .01) and less than .05), due largely to synergistic interactions with clofibrate-like drugs. Hypocholesteremic effects (23 and 22% average falls) were also significant for halofenate (P less than .01) and clofibrate (P less than .05) . Serum triglyceride levels actually rose significantly (P less than .05) with drug combinations containing beta-benzalbutyrate. Clofibrate and its analogs (halofenate and beta-benzalbutyrate) produced significant hepat*****ly (mean responses of +18, +18 and +10%, respectively) whereas oxandrolone produced significant hepatic shrinkage (-10%)(P less than .05). Secondary effects (drug interactions) were also found; hypotriglyceridemic synergism (effects more than additive) occurred between oxandrolone and clofibrate or its analogs (P less than .05), whereas antagonism (effects less than additive) was observed within the clofibrate-like group (P less than .01 or less .05).
Volume 194, Issue 1, pp. 274-284, 07/01/1975
Copyright © 1975 by American Society for Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics

----------


## Batm0n

Ok BJJ, so after reading your original post I decided to stop looking at my digital scale's BF meter and do it with calipers from a friend. My BF is more like 22%. Now just so you know even though my BF is at 22% I roll daily with a world class BJJ team for long periods of time. My cardio is great and I have tremendous core strength. (I am not the fat guy on the mats)....

As for my energy levels, I have been keeping my calories at 1700-1800 (including working out caloric decifits, so days i work our i'm eating about 2400-2600. I have been doing this for about 2 months with only losing about 5lbs. I assume my body is trying to hold onto it's fat in response to my low caloric intake. And I have been really sluggish the last 3 weeks rolling at the gym. 

I am thinking I am gonna up my calories to 2,200 and in 2 weeks starting the Var and Whinny along with Milk Thisle, an ***** 3 vitamin and multi vitamin. 

I was gonna break it up as follows. 
Var
Week 1 - 5mg
Week 2 - 10mg
Week 3 - 15mg
Week 4 - 15mg
Week 5 - 15mg
Week 6 - 15mg

Winny 
Week 1 - 40mg
Week 2 - 40mg
Week 3 - 40mg
Week 4 - 40mg
Week 5 - 40mg
Week 6 - 40mg
Do I have to taper off the winny or can I come right off like the Var?

I am not looking to take a large amount of AAS so from the studies I have read 10 mg of Var has shown a decent reduction in trunk body fat. 

Thanks BJJ. Ps. Where do you train. I'm on Long Island.

----------


## BJJ

> ...I am not looking to take a large amount of AAS so from the studies I have read 10 mg of Var has shown a decent reduction in trunk body fat. 
> 
> Thanks BJJ. Ps. Where do you train. I'm on Long Island.


OK, from your reply it is clear you want to use that amount of var only.
So, your 6 weeks table shows me you have 525 mg of oxandrolone.
If I were you, I would run a 4 week cycle as follows:
15/20/20/20

Regarding the winny, as I said I have no info to share.
*You should start your own thread asking for help.*
Many people will answer you and you may receive more complete info on the cycle you plan to start.

In my opinion however, the amount of var you want to use is tool less to notice any improvements. You are not a female.

I am in Italy...

----------


## BJJ

*Something else you may want to read about either winny and var:*

While injecting test increases Protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. tendons tear easily on it.
Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.
Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of anabolic steroids which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.
deca -Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - ,Equipoise , anavar , and primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use anabolic steroids like sus, testosterone cypionate , or testosterone enanthate .

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase Joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Equipoise - boldenone undecylenate - deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - anavar or primobolan - methenolone - as the base of your cycle. testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like Equipoise - boldenone undecylenate - deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - anavar and primobolan - methenolone - will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate @ 3 mg/kg a week (about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate is a very good drug at giving you everything you want, an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood.
primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180%, less than deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - and equipoise but still substantial.
Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340%, slightly better than deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies doenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.
These drugs have longer half-lives than most other anabolic steroids, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle Clomid use. Here they are:
deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate : 15 days Equipoise: 14 days primobolan: 10.5 days
anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

gh - growth hormone (somatropin) - is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, human growth hormone - somatropin - at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Equipoise - boldenone undecylenate - primobolan - methenolone - anavar and deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - are all good, they increase several biomakers of collagen syn, ie type III, II, I, procollagen markers. gh - growth hormone (somatropin) - just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain anabolic steroids, the decision is up to you.

----------


## BJJ

.....



> CHOLESTEROL TTL: 168 mg/dl (after: 179)
> CHOLESTEROL HDL: 41 mg/dl (*after: 13*) (range >=40)
> INDEX RISK HDL: 4,1 (*after: 13,76*) (range till 5)
> CHOLESTEROL LDL: 105 mg/dl (*after: 157*) (range 130-159, elevated borderline)
> BILIRUBIN TTL: *1,98* mg/dl (*after: 0,83*) (range 0,2-1)
> BILIRUBIN DIRECT: 0,22 mg/dl (after: 0,1) (range 0,05-0,3)
> BILIRUBIN INDIRECT: *1,76* mg/dl (*after: 0,73*) (range till 0,7)
> CREATININE: 1,2 mg/dl (after: 1,2) (range 0,8-1,3)
> AZOTEMIA: *49* mg/dl (*after: 62*) (range 15-40)
> ...





> Bilirubin is strongest antioxidant in human body. Decrease is becouse your liver consumend a large portion of bilirubine to reduce oxidation stress from oxandrolone.
> 
> Gilbert sy isnt bad its good! Atherosclerosis in a. carotis occure in critical degree 25 yr later than in normal people! And Gilberts has 80% less chance to have coronary heart disease.
> 
> Its more than good to have high bilirubine and yellow eyes? Small price for longer and better life.





> Appreciate the bilirubin info.
> What about the other values, the hormonal ones?





> The Anavar is effecting your HPTA... By lowering your LH its decreasing your testosterone production...
> 
> Dont know why its effecting your GH.. Didnt think it would have a negative effect of GH. Anavar has shown to increase GH at low doses 10mg ED.Perahaps it adversely effects it with higher doses...
> 
> Interesting stuff!

----------


## BJJ

.....

----------


## Toe.The.Line

I have been following this one for a while as I have been interested in var. I will be doing a 7 week @ 60 per day and have been looking for something to stack with it.
I think you got great results and thank you for the effort.

----------


## BJJ

> Any dizziness or confusion with this cycle BJJ?


Today I got it man.
Right now I feel weird, I am seated and it seems the "blood is moving inside my legs" with tremors.
Also my head is very strange, I have to move it otherwise it seems I am going down.
I am having right now a fit of giddiness!
I do not like this feeling.

Perhaps it could be due to the fact that today I brought up for the first time oxandrolone from 60 mg to 80 mg ed.

Hope nothing happens tonight.

----------


## BJJ

> I have been following this one for a while as I have been interested in var. I will be doing a 7 week @ 60 per day and have been looking for something to stack with it.
> I think you got great results and thank you for the effort.


Thanks to you.
Unfortunately, the pics do not give their due.

----------


## BJJ

The night is over and nothing happened really.
To be sure to sleep I decided to cum yesterday night and as usual it worked.
Though, this morning when I stood up from the bed I was seeeing my forearms trail while moving them. Very weird!
Is was a sort of hallucination.

Anyone experienced this on var or any other aas?

----------


## BJJ

CHOLESTEROL TTL: 168 mg/dl (after: 179) (range 140-220) *day 36* (205)
CHOLESTEROL HDL: 41 mg/dl (*after: 13*) (range >=40) *day 36* (*11*)
INDEX RISK HDL: 4,1 (*after: 13,76*) (range till 5) *day 36* (*19,2*)
CHOLESTEROL LDL: 105 mg/dl (*after: 157*) (range 130-159, elevated borderline) *day 36* (*199*) (range >190, very elevated)
BILIRUBIN TTL: *1,98* mg/dl (*after: 0,83*) (range 0,2-1) *day 36* (*0,78*)
BILIRUBIN DIRECT: 0,22 mg/dl (after: 0,1) (range 0,05-0,3) *day 36* (0,1)
BILIRUBIN INDIRECT: *1,76* mg/dl (*after: 0,73*) (range till 0,7) *day 36* (*0,68*)
CREATININE: 1,2 mg/dl (after: 1,2) (range 0,8-1,3) *day 36* (1,2)
AZOTEMIA: *49* mg/dl (*after: 62*) (range 15-40) *day 36* (*57*)
AMYLASE: 62 u/ltr (after: 55) (range 25-115) *day 36* (63)
TRANSAMINASE GPT/ALT: 41 u/ltr (*after: 86*) (range 30-65) *day 36* (*66*)
TRANSAMINASE GOT/AST: 21 u/ltr (*after: 55*) (range 15-37) *day 36* (*50*)
GAMMA (YGT): 28 u/ltr (after: 29) (range 15-85) *day 36* (28)

INSULIN : 3,34 micru/ml (after: 3,6) (range 1,9-23) *day 36* (3,04)
IGF1: (184) (range 96-424) *day 36* (163)
TESTOSTERONE TTL: 3,86 ng/ml (*after: 0,72*) (range 1,75-7,81) *day 36* (*0,61*)
TESTOSTERONE FREE: 11,7 pg/ml (*after: 5,2*) (range 8-47) *day 36* (*4,8*)
SHBG: 38 pg/ml (*after: 10*) (range 13-71) *day 36* (*<0,1*)
FSH: 2,92 micru/ml (after: 2,09) (range 1,27-19,26) *day 36* (*2,56*)
LH: 3,80 miu/ml (after: 2,19) (range 1,24-8,62) *day 36* (*2,58*)
DHEAS: 191 mcg/dl (after: 209) (range 106-464) *day 36* (209,6)
HGH: 0,2 ng/ml (after: <0,1) (range 0,0-10) *day 36* (<0,1)

So, my diet have been not so clean from saturated fats in the last 10 days and this could be the explanation for the bad increase of cholesterol LDL, while the HDL remained almost at the same level.
The bilirubins ttl and indirect keep doing their jobs protecting the liver being used by the organism.
I am glad the azotemia went lower and this was due, I think, because I quit drinking those liquid proteins who also made me feel pangs on my lower back just below the right kidney and above the right ilium.
Regarding the transaminases, they both went down closer to the normal range levels.
Both testosterone (ttl and free) kept decreasing while SHBG is gone!
Good news from FHS and LH, which both raised again closer to my normal levels before the cycle being kept both always within the normal ranges.
I read that oxandrolone had to bring up HGH level but in my case it went down.

Any imput is appreciated, as you may know I have no doctor on my back anymore (so far, at least).
Thank you

----------


## BJJ

> Today I got it.
> 
> Right now I feel weird, I am seated and it seems the "blood is moving inside my legs" with tremors.
> Also my head is very strange, I have to move it otherwise it seems I am going down.
> I am having right now one more fit of giddiness!
> I do not like this feeling.
> Hope nothing happens tonight.
> 
> Perhaps it could be due to the fact that today I brought up for the first time oxandrolone from 60 mg to 80 mg ed.
> ...





> hope u will get better asap bro....





> Well thank you but actually is getting a bit worse!





> if its the first time you take oxandrolone, than i recommend you take a brake from it to see if u will get better, maybe your body can't handle this.. 
> don't know its profile but logicaly.. and what you have to do now is try to contact a doctor if its possible just to be on the safe side





> I cannot just take a break from it. If I stop taking oxandrolone then I have to start a proper pct. So actually, it is an ending cycle decision.
> 
> Regarding the doctor, you are correct.
> I had once one, now not anymore so I am trying to find some endo who knows aas deeply.





> well just be careful with that stuff... 
> feeling better today ? did u find any doctor ?





> hows your palse? hows your vision? if you are not diabetic, take something sweet. go to nearest medical centre and check your bp. Take these things seriously while on gear. Hope you get well soon.





> I lowered the dose to 60 mg back.
> I feel better now, the morning is all over and I am fine.
> 
> Regarding the doctor I had two appointments lastly but both doctors were *asking ME* the usual protocol for a correct PCT.
> So, I finished the conversation and I said good-bye.
> 
> Still searching for...





> Thank you, I am going today to check my bp, even though I feel good now.


.....

----------


## BJJ

Do you guys think a need a pct with those FSH & LH levels?

Before cycle_____________after 18 days____________after 36 days

FSH: *2,92*_______________*2,09*_______________________*2,56*
LH: *3,80*________________*2,19*_______________________*2,58*

They are raising back to normal. Is this due to mesterolone (proviron )?
It should not. 
Anyway I was thinking of running 2 weeks clomid 50/50.

Any input...

----------


## BJJ

*Day1*
60 oxa - 3.436 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day2*
60 oxa - 3.550 Kcal - (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Bursts of Heat

*Day3*
60 oxa - 3.199 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness

*Day4*
60 oxa - 3.340 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, 4 mg Loperamide

*Day5*
60 oxa - 2.799 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, Yellow Skin (left biceps & shoulder), 4 mg Loperamide, 25.000 iu Neomycin

*Day6*
60 oxa - 3.646 Kcal - (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Tiredness, Yellow Skin, 1 gr Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day7*
60 oxa - 3.912 Kcal - (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Yellow Skin, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.411

1ST WEEK NOTES
The first week was very hard to go through. No will to eat at all and lots of problem to understand if the diarrhea was due from oxandrolone or liv.52; also I got a persistent sore throat.
The strength increase was considerable, especially on legs and shoulders.
As daily supplements throughout the cycle: (Multi Vitamins/Minerals 1 tb, Vitamin C/Ester 3 gr, EFA complex 6 gr, ALA 600 mg, LIV.52 2 tabs, CLA 4 gr, ZMA, Tribulus Terrestris 3 gr, Chromium Picolinate 400 mcg, Acetyl L-Carnitine 600 mg, Coenzyme Q10, Glutamine 35 gr, BCAA 20 gr, MT Gakic Hardcore 8 tbs (only before w/o), UN Animal Flex 1 pckt.

*Day 8*
60 oxa - 2.415 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite,Tiredness, 25.000 iu Neomycin, 4 mg Loperamide, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

*Day 9*
60 oxa - 3.400 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 10*
60 oxa - 2.760 Kcal - (Cardio 35’)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 11*
60 oxa - 4.208 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Oxandrolone kicked in

*Day 12*
60 oxa - 3.332 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 13*
60 oxa - 3.645 Kcal - (Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 14*
60 oxa - 3.976 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.392

2ND WEEK NOTES
At day 11 finally Anavar showed me its potentiality by improving my strength incredibly. Not only the power to lift was improved but also the reps needed to exhaust the muscles.
Furthermore, I am starving again especially after the work-outs.
The diarrhea was given by Liv.52. I solved the problem by taking only 1 tab in the morning.

*Day 15*
60 oxa – 3.698 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 16*
60 oxa – 3.645 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

Updated Stats (from the beginning):

Body Weight: 94,5 kg (207,9 lbs) *+8,62%*
Body Fat: 14% *+8,52%*
Water: 63,6% *+0,63%*
Estimated Muscle Mass: 77,3 kg (170,6 lbs) *+5,17%*

(data given by Tanita BC-418)

*Day 17*
60 oxa – 3.591 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Diarrhea, 4 mg Loperamide

*Day 18*
60 oxa – 3.016 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

_Blood & Urine analyses results to be compared with the ones taken before the cycle._

CHOLESTEROL TTL: 168 mg/dl (after: 179)
CHOLESTEROL HDL: 41 mg/dl (after: *13*) (range >=40)
INDEX RISK HDL: 4,1 (after: *13,76*) (range till 5)
CHOLESTEROL LDL: 105 mg/dl (after: *157*) (range 130-159, elevated borderline)
BILIRUBIN TTL: *1,98* mg/dl (after: *0,83*) (range 0,2-1)
BILIRUBIN DIRECT: 0,22 mg/dl (after: 0,1) (range 0,05-0,3)
BILIRUBIN INDIRECT: *1,76* mg/dl (after: *0,73*) (range till 0,7)
CREATININE: 1,2 mg/dl (after: 1,2) (range 0,8-1,3)
AZOTEMIA: *49* mg/dl (after: *62*) (range 15-40)
AMYLASE: 62 u/ltr (after: 55) (range 25-115)
TRANSAMINASE GPT/ALT: 41 u/ltr (after: *86*) (range 30-65)
TRANSAMINASE GOT/AST: 21 u/ltr (after: *55*) (range 15-37)
GAMMA (YGT): 28 u/ltr (after: 29) (range 15-85)
INSULIN : 3,34 micru/ml (after: 3,6) (range 1,9-23)
IGF1: (184) (range 96-424)
TESTOSTERONE TTL: 3,86 ng/ml (after: *0,72*) (range 1,75-7,81)
TESTOSTERONE FREE: 11,7 pg/ml (after: *5,2*) (range 8-47)
SHBG: 38 pg/ml (after: *10*) (range 13-71)
FSH: 2,92 micru/ml (after: 2,09) (range 1,27-19,26)
LH: 3,80 miu/ml (after: 2,19) (range 1,24-8,62)
DHEAS: 191 mcg/dl (after: 209) (range 106-464)
HGH: 0,2 ng/ml (after: <0,1) (range 0,0-10)

COLOUR: straw-coloured
APPEARANCE: *lightly opalescent* (after: *lightly opalescent*) (limpid)
PH REACTION: 5,5 (after: 6)
SPECIFIC WEIGHT: 1020 (after: 1016)
PROTEINS: none mg/dl (after: none)
HEMOGLOBIN: none (after: *present +*) (none)
GLUCOSE: none gr/litre (after: none)
KETONE BODIES: none (after: none)
UROBILINOGEN: none mg/dl (after: none)
BILIARY PIGMENTS: none (after: none)
NITRITE: none (after: none)


*Day 19*
60 oxa – 3.125 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 20*
60 oxa – 3.332 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, 400 mg Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day 21*
60 oxa – 3.129 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, Headache, 2 gr Paracetamol, 500 mg Acetylcysteine Antibiotic, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.362

3RD WEEK NOTES
I understood that the best time to take oxandrolone is after the meals, not before or during, otherwise I get diarrhea and this apart from ingesting Liv.52.
Unfortunately, I got a bit sick yesterday and today is even worse. Every year I suffer from sinusitis which I hope to cure as fast as possible.
In regards of the results of blood analyses above reported, my bilirubin values decreased within the normal range, as expected. Oxandrolone seems "to cure" Gilberts's syndrome (which I have).
Of course, either LDL, HDL and Transaminase went up; as well as azotemia which was already a bit higher and surely it could not start declining during the cycle.
Strangely, creatinine stayed at the same level but this is good in relation with azotemia.
What I do not understand are the values related to LH, FSH and HGH compared with DHEAS. Hopefully my endocrinologist, if not someone in here before, will explain this issue.

*Day 22*
60 oxa – 5.096 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, Diarrhea, 100 mg Nimesulide, 500 mg Acetylcysteine Antibiotic, 600 mg Acetylcysteine, 25.000 iu Neomycin, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 23*
60 oxa – 4.003 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 24*
60 oxa – 3.650 Kcal – (Back)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 25*
60 oxa – 4.021 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 26*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 4.374 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 27*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 5.338 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Libido is Back, Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 28*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.071 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 4.221

4TH WEEK NOTES
Fortunately sinusitis, which I had between day 20/22, went away quickly.
At day 26 I added 3 gr of Tribulus Terrestris daily.
Since also from day 26 I am ingesting Mesterolone, my libido in back and I have very hard erections. Furthermore, I feel I can last longer while having sex.
My daily Kcalories intake was brought up to more than 4.000 (just checking how much fat I will store comparing to when I was eating/training the same, naturally).
This afternoon I underwent a full abdominal echography to see the overall situation and try to figure out if the pang I felt sometimes around my lower back was due to a kidney problem. The response was negative, all the organs are fine and was told it might be a problem related to training, probably a muscular micro-lesion less than 1mm, therefore not visible.
The persistent sore throat, reported at week 1, it is still there.[/QUOTE]

*Day 29*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 5.723 Kcal – (Shoulders, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Problems to fall asleep because I took the last tabs of Oxandrolone around midnight, 2 gr Ketoprofen foam, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 30*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 4.790 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 2 gr Ketoprofen foam

*Day 31*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 5.999 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 32*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.461 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Diarrhea, 4 mg Loperamide, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 33*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 2.763 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 200 mg Nimesulide, 4 gr Ketoprofen foam

*Day 34*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 4.321 Kcal – (Chest & Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 35*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.973 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Diarrhea, 100 mg Nimesulide

Updated Stats (from day 16, where I reached with this cycle, my previous natural limit):

Body Weigth: 98,9 kg (217,6 lbs) *+4,66%*
Body Fat: 14,6% *+4,29%*
Water: 63,8% *+0,31%*
Estimated Muscle Mass: 80,3 kg (170,6 lbs) *+3,88%*

New BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate): 2.485 Kcal
(data given by Tanita BC-418)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 4.432

5TH WEEK NOTES
So, in 19 days I took 6,6 lbs of lean mass (estimate) while fat increased a bit more but still under control (considering also I am not eating low glycemic index carbs at all) and water kept at the same value.
I would say so far, oxandrolone is showing its ability to increase the lean mass controlling either the fat and the water.
I am quite satisfied because I think I can easily go down to 12% bf retaining most of the lean mass acquired. I will act so the last ten days of the cycle. Till that time, I want to continue eating that much calories and proteins. Perhaps I can start eating more oats instead of pasta and rice!!! :Chairshot: 

At day 30 I started to ingest 10 mg more of Oxandrolone daily, for a total of 70 mg.
At day 35 I went back to 60 mg since I noticed no differences at all and the back pain on the lumbar right region came back again in a vigorous way. I am getting tired of this also because in spite of the echography I took lastly (which was fine), the pain is always there and seems to get worse after I ingest Oxandrolone. I had no possibility, as previously stated, to go taking blood analyses a few days ago, but I’ll go tomorrow morning. I want to see if the values related to the liver and the kidneys have stabilized or not. In negative case, it could be an explanation for the pain. Surely, I cannot keep taking nimesulide to get rid of the pain since it is very liver toxic too and gives diarrhea.
Strength keeps increasing.
The persistent sore throat, reported at week 1, it is finally gone.

*Day 36*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.640 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

CHOLESTEROL TTL: 168 mg/dl (after: 179) (range 140-220) *day 36* (205)
CHOLESTEROL HDL: 41 mg/dl (*after: 13*) (range >=40) *day 36* (*11*)
INDEX RISK HDL: 4,1 (*after: 13,76*) (range till 5) *day 36* (*19,2*)
CHOLESTEROL LDL: 105 mg/dl (*after: 157*) (range 130-159, elevated borderline) *day 36* (*199*) (range >190, very elevated)
BILIRUBIN TTL: *1,98* mg/dl (*after: 0,83*) (range 0,2-1) *day 36* (*0,78*)
BILIRUBIN DIRECT: 0,22 mg/dl (after: 0,1) (range 0,05-0,3) *day 36* (0,1)
BILIRUBIN INDIRECT: *1,76* mg/dl (*after: 0,73*) (range till 0,7) *day 36* (*0,68*)
CREATININE: 1,2 mg/dl (after: 1,2) (range 0,8-1,3) *day 36* (1,2)
AZOTEMIA: *49* mg/dl (*after: 62*) (range 15-40) *day 36* (*57*)
AMYLASE: 62 u/ltr (after: 55) (range 25-115) *day 36* (63)
TRANSAMINASE GPT/ALT: 41 u/ltr (*after: 86*) (range 30-65) *day 36* (*66*)
TRANSAMINASE GOT/AST: 21 u/ltr (*after: 55*) (range 15-37) *day 36* (*50*)
GAMMA (YGT): 28 u/ltr (after: 29) (range 15-85) *day 36* (28)

INSULIN: 3,34 micru/ml (after: 3,6) (range 1,9-23) *day 36* (3,04)
IGF1: (184) (range 96-424) *day 36* (163)
TESTOSTERONE TTL: 3,86 ng/ml (*after: 0,72*) (range 1,75-7,81) *day 36* (*0,61*)
TESTOSTERONE FREE: 11,7 pg/ml (*after: 5,2*) (range 8-47) *day 36* (*4,8*)
SHBG: 38 pg/ml (*after: 10*) (range 13-71) *day 36* (*<0,1*)
FSH: 2,92 micru/ml (after: 2,09) (range 1,27-19,26) *day 36* (*2,56*)
LH: 3,80 miu/ml (after: 2,19) (range 1,24-8,62) *day 36* (*2,58*)
DHEAS: 191 mcg/dl (after: 209) (range 106-464) *day 36* (209,6)
HGH: 0,2 ng/ml (after: <0,1) (range 0,0-10) *day 36* (<0,1)

*Day 37*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.511 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 100 mg Nimesulide

*Day 38*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.332 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 39*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.042 Kcal – (Cardio 30’)
Sides & Notes: 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 40*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.046 Kcal – (Cardio 30’)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 41*

80 oxa / 50 mes – 4.050 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Diarrhea, Dizziness late after dinner (several hours)

*Day 42*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 4.824 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Diarrhea, Dizziness late after dinner (just a few minutes)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.635

6TH WEEK NOTES
On day 41 I tried to raise the input from Oxandrolone by ingesting 20 mg more, for a total of 80 mg. The results were dizziness and confusion. The morning after I felt also some kind of hallucination and both yesterday and today the diarrhea came back. I decided not to push my luck and from day 42 I went back to 60 mg ed. After all, I had good results so far and see no reasons to screw everything up.
This week I ate a bit less to see if I could obtain a better definition but I also had the possibility to work-out only two days, so this made my effort fruitless.
Regarding my sperm, I realized it is more viscous than before and it seems also heavier.
Wondering if PCT is required since both LH and FSH are (and always were) within the normal ranges.

----------


## BJJ

Click Drug Name to View Profile: Anavar

----------


## BJJ

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=199857

(Mesterolone)
[1 alpha-methyl-17 beta-hydroxy-5 alpha-androstan-3-one]
Molecular Weight: 304.4716
Molecular Formula: C20H32O2
Melting Point: N/A
Manufacturer: Schering
Release Date: 1960
Effective Dose: 25-200mgs/day
Active Life: up to 12 hours
Detection Time: 5-6weeks
Androgenic : Anabolic Ratio:30-40/100-150


Proviron (mesterolone) is basically an orally active DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) preparation. For comparision, we can think of some other orally prepared DHT compounds like Winstrol , Anavar , etc… Those both act very similarly in mechanism to Proviron, but a more accurate way to think of this compound is as something like “Oral Masteron .” As I’m sure you noticed, their anabolic/androgenic ratio is very similar.Remember, DHT is 3 to 4 times as androgenic as testosterone and is, of course, incapable of forming estrogen. Also, Proviron is quite unique in that a simple look at it’s 4-ring structure will show us that it is not going to be too liver toxic, since it is not c17-Alpha-Alkylated, as many orals are…this modification (lacking in Proviron) makes drugs more liver toxic. Proviron has a 1-metyhl group added, instead. Looks pretty great on paper, right? Well, as usual, things tend to look better on paper than they do in the body. Your body has a negative feedback loop which prevents your body from having too much DHT floating around(if you’ve been paying attention up to now from reading my other stuff, you already know this). An excess of DHT will eventually be changed into another (largely not anabolic) compound.

And of course, being a DHT-based compound, this stuff isn't going to be great for female athletes to use. Virilization (development of male sexual characteristics) is going to be a concern for women daring enough to try this stuff. My advice is that there is much better, safer compounds for female athletes and bodybuilders to use.

So lets go back to the comparison with being some sort of “Oral Masteron”…basically since Proviron is 5-alpha reduced and not capable of forming estrogen, and also has a very high affinity for binding to the aromatase enzyme (the enzyme responsible for converting all that good testosterone in your body into all that nasty estrogen). That means if you choose to take proviron with testosterone (and I know you wouldn’t even be doing a cycle without including some form of testosterone) and/or any aromatizable steroid , it should actually serve to prevent estrogen build up by the aforementioned binding to the aromatase enzyme, which prevents aromatase from doing it’s dirty work and making a bunch of estrogen out of the other steroids you are taking. It should also be noted that Proviron also binds very well to SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin…a hormone responsible for reducing the amount of circulating free testosterone in your body)(1). As a matter of fact, in the last study I read, it bound to SHBG better than any other drug studied. Also, I’d like to note that Proviron bound to the Anabolic Receptor better than any oral anabolic (except for the insanely toxic MethylTrienolone ), having an ability to bind to the AR better then testosterone, but not as well as Nandrolone (1). Unfortunately, as we know, DHT also has a high affinity for binding to receptors in the scalp and prostate, causing some possible nasty side effects, like male pattern baldness and prostate enlargement. It’s important to remember that DHT and DHT derived compounds are used quite successfully to treat gynocomastia, and in this area, Proviron is no different.

Lets delve into some of the positive points of this drug before we go any farther. Androgen Receptors are found in fat cells as well as muscle cells(5), and whilethey act on the AR in muscle cells to promote growth, they also act directly on the AR in fat cells to affect fat burning.(9)(3) The stronger the androgen binds to the A.R, the higher the lipolytic (fat burning) effect on adipose (fat)tissue(6)(2). As if that’s not enough good news, some steroids (notably, testosterone) even increase the numbers of A.R. in muscle and fat (9)(7). Thus, if you are taking a simple stack of proviron and testosterone, you’ll have more of the test you shoot as free testosterone floating around building muscle (compliments of the Proviron), more androgen receptors to be bound to (compliments of your testosterone) by your Proviron, thus causing more fat loss. Testosterone and Proviron are a very nice synergistic stack, pretty nearly an “ideal” stack of an oral and injectable, because both drugs will actually act to enhance the effect of the other.

So what we have here is a steroid which can basically make other steroids more effective by preventing their conversion into estrogen, as well as increasing the amount of circulating free testosterone in your body. This of course all provides a more hardened and quality look to muscles. Proviron is very much a “synergistic” drug in this respect, and it’s inclusion in any cycle would definitely make all of the other steroids perform better, and provide better gains. This is all compounded by the fact that proviron is a very lipolytic (fat-burning) drug.

Now, as if all of this weren’t enough, lets talk about how Proviron affects your HPTA (Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular-Axis)…the thing that regulates the male hormonal system. When a reasonable dose of this stuff is given (100-150mgs/day), it had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels (6). Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH) and Leutenizing Hormone (LH) are two hormones which send a signal to your testes to produce testosterone. Good news for people considering it for PCT is that it can even raise your LH (10)! Thus, by not suppressing those hormones and maybe even raising some, your normal testosterone levels will remain intact. This points to a novel use for this compound during Post-Cycyle-Therapy for a non-suppressive “bridge” between cycles. In fact, in yet another study, administration of Proviron (basically the same dose as in the last study) produced no changes in steroids, thyroid hormones, gonadotropins nor PRL (Prolactin Levels…you want those to remain low).(8).

Unfortunately, this stuff is not too hot on it’s own. It’s a good drug for inclusion in a cycle containing testosterone and other armoatizable steroids, and it’s a good drug for a possible “bridge” between cycles. Alone, however, as an androgenic or anabolic agent, it’s effects have been very weak in both studies (9), as well as in the experience of everyone I spoke to about it. This may be due to the addition of the 1-methyl-group to DHT, which makes this stuff orally active. Whatever the case, as a stand alone anabolic or androgenic compound, it’s not too impressive.

This drug is a rare find on the American Black Market, and many Underground Labs don't even produce it, but if you can find it, I’d say that you shouldn’t be paying more than .50cents for each 50mg tab.

References:
1. Relative binding affinity of anabolic-androgenic steroids: comparison of the binding to the androgen receptors in skeletal muscle and in prostate, as well as to sex hormone-binding globulin.Endocrinology. 1984 Jun;114(6):2100-6.
2. APMIS. 2000 Dec;108(12):838-46.
3. (Xu X, et al. "The effects of androgens on the regulation of lipolysis in adipose precursor cells." Endocrinology 1990 Feb;126(2):1229 ).
4. J Anim Sci. 1992 Nov;70(11):3381-90.
5. Am J Physiol. 1998 Jun;274(6 Pt 1):C1645-52.
6. The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.Int J Gynaecol Obstet. 1988 Feb;26(1):121-8.
7. J Appl. Physiol.94 1153-61 2003
8. Effect of non aromatizable androgens on LHRH and TRH responses in primary testicular failure.Horm Metab Res. 1984 Sep;16(9):492-7.
9. [Androgen substitution in the andrological disease picture]
Andrologia. 1983 May-Jun;15(3):283-6. German.
10.The effects of mesterolone, a male sex hormone in depressed patients (a double blind controlled study).
Methods Find Exp Clin Pharmacol. 1984 Jun;6(6):331-7.

----------


## BJJ

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=199849

(Clomiphine Citrate)

Clomid is a drug given to women for use as a fertility aid. It is a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator) which acts by actually binding to the estrogen receptor and thereby blocking estrogen from doing the same. Clearly, this is advantageous when it binds to breast tissue, and prevents estrogen from binding there to cause gynocomastia (although it is not nearly as effective as nolvadex for this purpose). It also opposes the negative feedback loop that the body has with regards to estrogen and the HPTA (Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular-Axis), and this in turn stimulates LH (Leutenizing Hormone) and FSH (Follicle Stimulating Hormone). LH and FSH, in turn stimulate the release of testosterone . Clearly this is advantageous to bodybuilders and athletes coming off of a cycle, and beginning their post-cycle-therapy. What we have in Clomid is essentially a drug that acts as a preventative measure against gynocomastia, as well as a drug that acts to raise endogenous (natural) testosterone levels . Usually, it is compared with another SERM, Nolvadex, for those reasons.

Clomid, however, is much weaker than nolvadex in a mg for mg comparison, with roughly 150mgs of clomid being equal to 20mgs of nolvadex (1).It should be noted, however, that 150mgs of clomid will still raise testosterone levels to approximately 150% of baseline value(1). You don’t have to use 150mgs, however; In my research, I’ve found that doses as low as 50mgs will show improvements and elevations in testosterone levels (4). In fact, my original Post-Cycle-Therapy regime (as suggested by Dan Duchaine in the original Underground Steroid Handbook) was 100mgs per day for a week and 50mgs/day for a week. Don’t laugh…for the late 90’s,when most anabolic steroid users didn’t even know how to use Clomid, it was considered a “state of the art” PCT routine. I suspect that Duchaine originally introduced this compound to the steroid using community.

Clomid, just like nolvadex, is very safe for long term treatment of lowered testosterone levels (2), with some studies showing it’s safety and efficacy for up to four months. And post-cycle, when steroid users are suffering form lowered testosterone levels, is when clomid is most effective.

I used to run Clomid for about 3 weeks post cycle, at 100-150mgs. Any more than that, and I experience emotional side effects (no, really…) due to the excess amount of circulating estrogen I have in my body. All of that extra estrogen tends to make me moody, and it gets hard to squeeze workouts and cardio in-between reruns of “Sex & the City” (ok, I’m exaggerating).

A problem arose during a very aggressive Clomid PCT routine once. I was taking pretty high doses (150mgs/day) of clomid for an extended time (over a month) and was having vision issues. When I looked into the subject more closely, this was a common occurrence with steroid.com members. Upon further investigation, I found out the optic neuropathy (a fancy way of saying “vision problems”) was actually very common with clomid usage (5)(6).Since I already wear contact lenses, I’ve had to remove Clomid from my PCT routine.

Clomid as of late has fallen out of favor for post-cycle routines, but if you aren’t prone to vision problems or emotional issues, then it is just as good as nolvadex for raising testosterone when appropriate doses are used. I recommend using 150mgs/day for ten days, and decreasing the dose by 50mgs every ten days until you’re finished at day 30. Many of the bodybuilders and athletes I've spoken to have used it in a similar fashion and found that it restores their testosterone levels to normal.

This drug is widely available from many research supply companies, generally in liquid form, as well as from most Underground Labs who produce their own version of it in capsules. In either case, you shouldn't be paying more than $1 per 50-100mgs of it (generally this is 2 caps or 1-2mls of the liquid stuff).

References:
[font=Times New Roman]
1. Fertil Steril. 1978 Mar;29(3):320-7.
2. Int J Impot Res. 2003 Jun;15(3):156-65.
3. Understanding sex biases in immunity: effects of estrogen on the differentiation and function of antigen-presenting cells.
Immunol Res. 2005;31(2):91-106.
4. The effects of normal aging on the response of the pituitary-gonadal axis to chronic clomiphene administration in men. J Androl 1991 Jul-Aug;12(4):258-63
5. Optic neuropathy associated with clomiphene citrate therapy.
Fertil Steril. 1994 Feb;61(2):390-1
6. Visual disturbance secondary to clomiphene citrate.
Arch Ophthalmol. 1995 Apr;113(4):482-4.

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## BJJ

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=199821

(Tamoxifen Citrate)

This drug is used as a first line defense against breast cancer. In the late 80s, Dan Duchaine speculated that it could also be used by bodybuilders to halt the development of another type of tumor in the mammary glandGynocomastia. He introduced this find to the Steroid -using-community in his Contest Prep issue of the UnderGround Steroid Handbook Update Newsletters (the contest prep-issue was actually 3 issues in one, for those who had a subscription to the newsletter).

Nolvadex is commonly referred to in quite a few ways: as a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator), as an anti-estrogen (that is actually incorrect, as we will later see), and finally as a triphenylethylene. I happen to stick with calling Nolvadex a SERM, because out of my three options, it happens to be correct (as we know that calling it an anti-estrogen is incorrect), and pronouncable (as we know that I have no idea how to say "triphenylethylene") . Selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) act as either estrogen receptor agonists or antagonists in a tissue-selective mannerlets see what that means to us

Nolvadex actually has quite a few applications for the steroid using athlete. First and foremost, its most common use is for the prevention of gynocomastia. Nolvadex does this by actually competing for the receptor site in breast tissue, and binding to it. Thus, we can safely say that the effect of tamoxifen is through estrogen receptor blockade of breast tissue (1)especially since total body estradiol increases with use of tamoxifen. Clearly, if you are on a cycle which includes steroids which convert to estrogen, you may want to consider nolvadex as a good choice to run along side them.
Nolvadex, however, is not the most potent ancillary compound we can use on a cycle, but it is probably the safest considering it doesnt actually reduce estrogen in your body Keeping some estrogen floating around could have many benefits on muscle growth, as well. Estrogen is also important for a properly functioning immune system, and not only that, but your lipid profile (both HDL and LDL) should also show marked improvement with administration of tamoxifen (4). Many bodybuilders actually use this stuff during their cycle for the health benefits provided by it. If, however, you are preparing for a bodybuilding contest, you need to use something which will suck most (if not all) of the estrogen out of your body. I am speculating that you may be able to use Nolvadex for the majority of a contest prep cycle, to keep yourself relatively healthy, and then switch over to Letrozole for the last 8 weeks.

Nolvadex also has some important features for the steroid using athlete. In hypogonadic and infertile men given nolvadex, increases in the serum levels of LH, FSH, and most importantly, testosterone were all observed (2)(3). The best (rough) estimate I can give you from my research is that 20mgs of Nolvadex will raise your testosterone levels about 150% (5)...and this would of course greatly aid post-cycle-recovery. What this means to us is that if you take Nolvadex after a cycle, when you are trying to raise your levels of testosterone , LH, and FSH back to normal, it will greatly aid recovery. In fact, if I were limited to just one compound to aid me in post-cycle-recovery, Nolvadex would be my choice. If you want a comparison, it would require 150mgs of Clomid to accomplish that type of elevation in testosterone, but nolvadex also significantly increased the LH (Leutenizing Hormone) response to LHRL (5), after 6 weeks.
Some of the more harsh ancillary compounds available today will give you a more dry look that nolvadex cant, but nolvadex is simply safer to use in long (over 16 week) cycles.

Unfortunately, Nolvadex isnt perfect. Anecdotally, it has been linked to reduced gains in some bodybuilders. This isnt due, as previously thought, to its reducing estrogen levels (which it doesnt), but rather to its ability to possibly reduce IGF (Insulin -like-Growth-Factor) levels, which are important for muscle growth.

Personally, Ive had many successful cycles with nolvadex as well as without, but I can certainly testify to its effectiveness in preventing gynocomastia. Back in the late 90s I purchased 30 tabs of 10mg Nolvadex for $30, and recently I have found it for much less on various internet sites. Its well worth the money.

References:

1. Klin Padiatr. 1987 Nov-Dec;199(6):389-91.
2. Stimulation of calcitonin secretory capacity by increased serum levels of testosterone in men treated with tamoxifen. Int J Androl. 1987 Dec;10(6):747-51.
3. Hormonal changes in tamoxifen treated men with idiopathic oligozoospermia Exp Clin Endocrinol. 1988 Dec;92(2):211-6.
4. 2 Bruning PF, Bronfer JMG, Hart AAM, Jong-Bakker M, tamoxifen, serum lipoproteins and cardiovascular risk, Br. J. Cancer 1988 Oct, 58 (4) 497-9
5. Fertil Steril. 1978 Mar;29(3):320-7.

----------


## BJJ

Can someone be more stupid than me? I guess NOT!!!  :Chairshot: 

This morning instead of ingesting 30 mg oxandrolone (3 tabs) and 25 mg mesterolone (1 tab) I took *CLOMID*.
They have the same blister, so I took 150 mg of it and I wondered why I was having a sort of diarrhea during this morning.

I took now 40 mg oxa and 25 mes.
At dinner, I'll take the last 20 mg of oxa.

 :2offtopic:

----------


## BJJ

I decided to end this cycle one week before, so at the 7th.
Today is the first day of the last week, then I'll start a pct with nolva only probably; unless the blood work I'll take on the 7th, will differ from the last one.

----------


## *El Diablo*

> Can someone be more stupid than me? I guess NOT!!! 
> 
> This morning instead of ingesting 30 mg oxandrolone (3 tabs) and 25 mg mesterolone (1 tab) I took *CLOMID*.
> They have the same blister, so I took 150 mg of it and I wondered why I was having a sort of diarrhea during this morning.
> 
> I took now 40 mg oxa and 25 mes.
> At dinner, I'll take the last 20 mg of oxa.


 HaHaHaHaHa! ..Hall of sjame ....

----------


## lock123

awesome info thanks for sharing

----------


## BJJ

> awesome info thanks for sharing


do you mean my BS or my thread?

----------


## laveycraft

Great tread. Im in a 10 days or so anavar 60mg ed only side is bad gas.oh well... Strength is way up and takes longer to burn out at the gym, body weight is up 5 lbs. Pct necessary for anavar?

----------


## Western Man

> Pct necessary for anavar?


Yes, clomid and nolva

----------


## BJJ

> Great tread. Im in a 10 days or so anavar 60mg ed only side is bad gas.oh well... Strength is way up and takes longer to burn out at the gym, body weight is up 5 lbs. Pct necessary for anavar?


Check post 2 on this thread.
PCT, IMO, should be organized upon blood work at the end of your cycle.
In any case, clomiphene and tamoxifen are the compounds to look for.

----------


## BJJ

> CHOLESTEROL TTL: 168 mg/dl (after: 179) (range 140-220) *day 36* (205)
> CHOLESTEROL HDL: 41 mg/dl (*after: 13*) (range >=40) *day 36* (*11*)
> INDEX RISK HDL: 4,1 (*after: 13,76*) (range till 5) *day 36* (*19,2*)
> CHOLESTEROL LDL: 105 mg/dl (*after: 157*) (range 130-159, elevated borderline) *day 36* (*199*) (range >190, very elevated)
> BILIRUBIN TTL: *1,98* mg/dl (*after: 0,83*) (range 0,2-1) *day 36* (*0,78*)
> BILIRUBIN DIRECT: 0,22 mg/dl (after: 0,1) (range 0,05-0,3) *day 36* (0,1)
> BILIRUBIN INDIRECT: *1,76* mg/dl (*after: 0,73*) (range till 0,7) *day 36* (*0,68*)
> CREATININE: 1,2 mg/dl (after: 1,2) (range 0,8-1,3) *day 36* (1,2)
> AZOTEMIA: *49* mg/dl (*after: 62*) (range 15-40) *day 36* (*57*)
> ...





> Do you guys think a need a pct with those FSH & LH levels?
> 
> Before cycle_____________after 18 days____________after 36 days
> 
> FSH: *2,92*_______________*2,09*_______________________*2,56*
> LH: *3,80*________________*2,19*_______________________*2,58*
> 
> They are raising back to normal. Is this due to mesterolone (proviron )?
> It should not. 
> ...





> Are you still on any AAS?





> Yes, still taking 60 mg oxa ed.
> I finish my 6th week right today (I'll update my thread tonight) and I feel not so motivated like at the beginning, due to personal staff.
> Thank You





> Its not all that bad, some are elevated but they are going to be your on cycle, if your about to come off cycle i dont think you need clomid IMHO, I think Nolva only will do nicely





> Well actually I was thinking to finish the 7th week which starts tomorrow, then running the pct.
> So you think nolva 40/20 or 20/20?





> I think something mild like 20/20 will do fine, I dont know how you recover or how well you rebound but I think you should be ok with a mild pct IMHO





> I should start the pct just the day after my cycle ends since oxandrolone has an active life of 8/12 hours.
> Is that correct?





> Furthermore, why you chose nolva instead of clomid?





> Yes start your pct day after your cycle ends, I would just do a nolva pct because var is mild and i dont think you need the clomid/nolva combo, just looking back over your thread I would do 3 weeks of nolva either 20/20/20 or 40/20/20, clomid can have some bad sides and its harsh on your system so with such a mild cycle I dont think you need to go through that, but thats your choice





> Thank you marcus.
> 
> Something I do not get clear very well is why my LH and FSH did not go down comparing the values to when I was still natural.
> While, obviously, testosterone, testosterone free and SHBG decreased severely.
> 
> It is like if my organism was "drained" of testosterone from oxandrolone but at the same time my inner glands did not stop producing testosterone.
> Is that correct?
> 
> In this case, purely and theoretically speaking, a PCT may not be required since LH and FSH still function.
> ...





> What was your TTl and free testosterone levels before the cycle?
> 
> If you have normal or high levels of LH then your testicles are not responding to the signaling of the leydig cells to produce testosterone, once you stop the var hopefully the surpession will stop, I've seen alot worse Bloodwork so I wouldnt worry IMHO. Your BW is very similar to a friend of mine who only runs nolva and as no problems in bringing back his Test levels even with normal levels of LH.
> 
> I dont really know if you could run no PCT and gain back your full test levels, I am sure in time you would be able to but along side muscle loss and a few other sides.





> So what you are saying is that it is not good to have LH in normal ranges while on cycle.
> 
> INSULIN: 3,34 micru/ml [1,9 - 23]
> CORTISOL: 12,53 mg/dl [8,7 - 22,4]
> HTG: 7,65 ng/ml [0,0 - 35]
> PRL: 9,88 ng/ml [2,64 - 13,13]
> FT3: 3,48 pg/ml [2,2 - 4,7]
> FT4: 1,26 ng/dl [0,8 - 2]
> *TESTOSTERONE TTL: 3,86 ng/ml [1,75 - 7,81]
> ...





> No not at all, its better than low test, low LH and completely shutdown isnt it





> Var is a wierd compound. In some clincial data, low doses can severly effect the HPTA. Supressing both LH, FSH and T.
> 
> I dont think Var has had a direct effect on the testes, although it may have done. We still dont know how many of the compounds we use interact with the HPTA fully. I'd say the decline in T is from the lowered LH, FSH Var had in the first 20-25 days, then LH seemed to recover. LH dropped nearly 40% after 18days, thats a fair bit IMHO. Thats why your T has been lowered.
> 
> But your BW is very interesting.





> Var is bad on the lipids aswell. 
> 
> It didnt raise IGF also, thats intresting.
> 
> It proves how much it reduces SHBG though. Thats quite a decrease. Data states Var reduces SHBG, this just confirms it.
> 
> Did you have any liver function tests?





> I agree, its strange how his LH started to come back up to his normal level while on cycle. You thinking the same as me with regards to a weak PCT like nolva only because of his LH level?





> Yup.
> 
> 2-3 weeks 20mg/ED.





> Couldn't be due to the fact I added proviron at day 26? 50 mg ed and since then I always took it?





> _________________________*before*________*18*________*36*
> 
> CHOLESTEROL TTL_________168__________179_______205 (range 140-220)
> CHOLESTEROL HDL__________41___________13________11 (range >=40)
> INDEX RISK HDL____________4,1_________13,76______19,2 (range till 5)
> CHOLESTEROL LDL__________105__________157_______199 (range 130-159, elevated borderline, day 18) (range >190, very elevated, day 36)
> *BILIRUBIN TTL__________1,98_________0,83______0,78 (range 0,2-1)
> BILIRUBIN DIRECT_______0,22__________0,1_________0,1 (range 0,05-0,3)
> BILIRUBIN INDIRECT_____1,76_________0,73________0,68 (range till 0,7)*
> ...





> Can someone be more stupid than me? I guess NOT!!! 
> 
> This morning instead of ingesting 30 mg oxandrolone (3 tabs) and 25 mg mesterolone (1 tab) I took *CLOMID*.
> They have the same blister, so I took 150 mg of it and I wondered why I was having a sort of diarrhea during this morning.
> 
> I took now 40 mg oxa and 25 mes.
> At dinner, I'll take the last 20 mg of oxa.





> BJJ thanks for posting this up - it's very interesting. I took a brief look at it yesterday but had to run...... I havn't been in your other thread yet but if you wouldn't mind..... how much have you gained running var alone?
> 
> ~Haz~





> These are the results (day 35) from my previous weight data which I took after 16 days and there reached back my previous best natural limit but with less fat on, so I did not consider those gains.
> 
> Body Weigth: 98,9 kg (217,6 lbs) +4,66%
> Body Fat: 14,6% +4,29%
> Water: 63,8% +0,31%
> Estimated Muscle Mass: 80,3 kg (170,6 lbs) +3,88%





> Var seems failry hepatoxic too, although those arnt high levels. I used Tbol at 80mg/ED for 14 weeks and got above 100 AST. I also consumed the _odd_ alcoholic drink.





> Weren't you on WKD's down the park with your mates?





> 14 weeks are a lot, why so long?





> no clues...





> Those were the days. Long time ago for you though, right? 
> 
> 
> 
> My AST/lipids were fine, so I kept on increasing the dose as I went on.


.....

----------


## BJJ

Last week has begun and I decided to try increasing mesterolone up to 75 mg ed, to see if I notice anything different.

The strength increase stopped, I cannot go any further since a week even because I work-out alone, it is such a pity.

In this last week I decided to cut the total daily Kcalories of 1000, reducing carbs but increasing proteins, keeping the fats at the same level.
I want to see how my body reacts on this, especially when I work-out.

The vascularization (while working-out) has been "nice" I would say, nothing amazing.
Actually, I knew this already since my daily ingestion of Kcalories have been very high compared to what I was burning throughout the day.
So, no veins on my chest.

----------


## BJJ

.....

----------


## BJJ

Today I added 10 mg of oxa.
So, I have till the end var 70 mg and pro 75 mg, ed.
I am already feeling some dizziness.

----------


## BJJ

I decide to keep going one more week as per the original plan.
After all my blood work at day 36 was getting better from the first one taken at day 18, so I see no reason to give up earlier.
The dizziness went away the day after I felt it.

Regarding the LH and FSH, both values while taking also mesterolone, increased back but no one was able to tell me if that happened because of proviron intake, and did not find any study related to that subject.
So, from next Wednesday, my 8th week will start and I am going to take only anavar , decreasing the intake to 60 mg ed.
Then, by the end of that week I will take a a new blood work to check the values again and decide the pct. I am curious to see if both LH and FSH will start declining once again.
So far, it would be nolva only 40/20/20.

----------


## PO OFFICER

Have you considered clomid also for you pct? something like 100/50/50

----------


## PO OFFICER

> Great tread. Im in a 10 days or so anavar 60mg ed only side is bad gas.oh well... Strength is way up and takes longer to burn out at the gym, body weight is up 5 lbs. Pct necessary for anavar?


Not really. Anavar is a really mild anabolic steroid . However, you could always take some clomid. That's what I do  :Big Grin:

----------


## BJJ

> Have you considered clomid also for you pct? something like 100/50/50


Yes I did but I was advised not to take it because either my LH and FSH are within the normal ranges.
So, a mild pct for a mild cycle.

----------


## BJJ

> I have been following this one for a while as I have been interested in var. I will be doing a 7 week @ 60 per day and have been looking for something to stack with it.
> I think you got great results and thank you for the effort.


I am sorry man I just remembered about your post.
The day you posted it was also the day I felt bad for the first time during this cycle and in order to handle the situation I forgot to reply to you.
I apologize, so I do it now if still interested.

Basically you will do my cycle, just one week less.
As you may have seen on post 2, I stacked mesterolone with oxandrolone for its SHBG properties.
I did not expect to see my LH and FSH to raise back during the cycle and my concern is now if it was due to proviron .
If you have read my previous post, you know I have expectations from my final blood work before my pct.

I would not be able to suggest you any other compound to stack with anavar because I have no other experiences.

Good Luck for your cycle.  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## elpropiotorvic

Try to pm musclescience with the proviron question

----------


## BJJ

> Try to pm musclescience with the proviron question


Thank you for your advice.

----------


## BJJ

*Day1*
60 oxa - 3.436 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day2*
60 oxa - 3.550 Kcal - (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Bursts of Heat

*Day3*
60 oxa - 3.199 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness

*Day4*
60 oxa - 3.340 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, 4 mg Loperamide

*Day5*
60 oxa - 2.799 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, Yellow Skin (left biceps & shoulder), 4 mg Loperamide, 25.000 iu Neomycin

*Day6*
60 oxa - 3.646 Kcal - (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Tiredness, Yellow Skin, 1 gr Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day7*
60 oxa - 3.912 Kcal - (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Yellow Skin, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.411

1ST WEEK NOTES
The first week was very hard to go through. No will to eat at all and lots of problem to understand if the diarrhea was due from oxandrolone or liv.52; also I got a persistent sore throat.
The strength increase was considerable, especially on legs and shoulders.
As daily supplements throughout the cycle: (Multi Vitamins/Minerals 1 tb, Vitamin C/Ester 3 gr, EFA complex 6 gr, ALA 600 mg, LIV.52 2 tabs, CLA 4 gr, ZMA, Tribulus Terrestris 3 gr, Chromium Picolinate 400 mcg, Acetyl L-Carnitine 600 mg, Coenzyme Q10, Glutamine 35 gr, BCAA 20 gr, MT Gakic Hardcore 8 tbs (only before w/o), UN Animal Flex 1 pckt.

*Day 8*
60 oxa - 2.415 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite,Tiredness, 25.000 iu Neomycin, 4 mg Loperamide, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

*Day 9*
60 oxa - 3.400 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 10*
60 oxa - 2.760 Kcal - (Cardio 35)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 11*
60 oxa - 4.208 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Oxandrolone kicked in

*Day 12*
60 oxa - 3.332 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 13*
60 oxa - 3.645 Kcal - (Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 14*
60 oxa - 3.976 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.392

2ND WEEK NOTES
At day 11 finally Anavar showed me its potentiality by improving my strength incredibly. Not only the power to lift was improved but also the reps needed to exhaust the muscles.
Furthermore, I am starving again especially after the work-outs.
The diarrhea was given by Liv.52. I solved the problem by taking only 1 tab in the morning.

*Day 15*
60 oxa  3.698 Kcal  (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 16*
60 oxa  3.645 Kcal  (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

Updated Stats (from the beginning):

Body Weight: 94,5 kg (207,9 lbs) *+8,62%*
Body Fat: 14% *+8,52%*
Water: 63,6% *+0,63%*
Estimated Muscle Mass: 77,3 kg (170,6 lbs) *+5,17%*

(data given by Tanita BC-418)

*Day 17*
60 oxa  3.591 Kcal  (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Diarrhea, 4 mg Loperamide

*Day 18*
60 oxa  3.016 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

_Blood & Urine analyses results to be compared with the ones taken before the cycle._

CHOLESTEROL TTL: 168 mg/dl (after: 179)
CHOLESTEROL HDL: 41 mg/dl (after: *13*) (range >=40)
INDEX RISK HDL: 4,1 (after: *13,76*) (range till 5)
CHOLESTEROL LDL: 105 mg/dl (after: *157*) (range 130-159, elevated borderline)
BILIRUBIN TTL: *1,98* mg/dl (after: *0,83*) (range 0,2-1)
BILIRUBIN DIRECT: 0,22 mg/dl (after: 0,1) (range 0,05-0,3)
BILIRUBIN INDIRECT: *1,76* mg/dl (after: *0,73*) (range till 0,7)
CREATININE: 1,2 mg/dl (after: 1,2) (range 0,8-1,3)
AZOTEMIA: *49* mg/dl (after: *62*) (range 15-40)
AMYLASE: 62 u/ltr (after: 55) (range 25-115)
TRANSAMINASE GPT/ALT: 41 u/ltr (after: *86*) (range 30-65)
TRANSAMINASE GOT/AST: 21 u/ltr (after: *55*) (range 15-37)
GAMMA (YGT): 28 u/ltr (after: 29) (range 15-85)
INSULIN : 3,34 micru/ml (after: 3,6) (range 1,9-23)
IGF1: (184) (range 96-424)
TESTOSTERONE TTL: 3,86 ng/ml (after: *0,72*) (range 1,75-7,81)
TESTOSTERONE FREE: 11,7 pg/ml (after: *5,2*) (range 8-47)
SHBG: 38 pg/ml (after: *10*) (range 13-71)
FSH: 2,92 micru/ml (after: 2,09) (range 1,27-19,26)
LH: 3,80 miu/ml (after: 2,19) (range 1,24-8,62)
DHEAS: 191 mcg/dl (after: 209) (range 106-464)
HGH: 0,2 ng/ml (after: <0,1) (range 0,0-10)

COLOUR: straw-coloured
APPEARANCE: *lightly opalescent* (after: *lightly opalescent*) (limpid)
PH REACTION: 5,5 (after: 6)
SPECIFIC WEIGHT: 1020 (after: 1016)
PROTEINS: none mg/dl (after: none)
HEMOGLOBIN: none (after: *present +*) (none)
GLUCOSE: none gr/litre (after: none)
KETONE BODIES: none (after: none)
UROBILINOGEN: none mg/dl (after: none)
BILIARY PIGMENTS: none (after: none)
NITRITE: none (after: none)


*Day 19*
60 oxa  3.125 Kcal  (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 20*
60 oxa  3.332 Kcal  (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, 400 mg Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day 21*
60 oxa  3.129 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, Headache, 2 gr Paracetamol, 500 mg Acetylcysteine Antibiotic, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.362

3RD WEEK NOTES
I understood that the best time to take oxandrolone is after the meals, not before or during, otherwise I get diarrhea and this apart from ingesting Liv.52.
Unfortunately, I got a bit sick yesterday and today is even worse. Every year I suffer from sinusitis which I hope to cure as fast as possible.
In regards of the results of blood analyses above reported, my bilirubin values decreased within the normal range, as expected. Oxandrolone seems "to cure" Gilberts's syndrome (which I have).
Of course, either LDL, HDL and Transaminase went up; as well as azotemia which was already a bit higher and surely it could not start declining during the cycle.
Strangely, creatinine stayed at the same level but this is good in relation with azotemia.
What I do not understand are the values related to LH, FSH and HGH compared with DHEAS. Hopefully my endocrinologist, if not someone in here before, will explain this issue.

*Day 22*
60 oxa  5.096 Kcal  (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, Diarrhea, 100 mg Nimesulide, 500 mg Acetylcysteine Antibiotic, 600 mg Acetylcysteine, 25.000 iu Neomycin, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 23*
60 oxa  4.003 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 24*
60 oxa  3.650 Kcal  (Back)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 25*
60 oxa  4.021 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 26*
60 oxa / 50 mes  4.374 Kcal  (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 27*
60 oxa / 50 mes  5.338 Kcal  (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Libido is Back, Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 28*
60 oxa / 50 mes  3.071 Kcal  (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 4.221

4TH WEEK NOTES
Fortunately sinusitis, which I had between day 20/22, went away quickly.
At day 26 I added 3 gr of Tribulus Terrestris daily.
Since also from day 26 I am ingesting Mesterolone, my libido in back and I have very hard erections. Furthermore, I feel I can last longer while having sex.
My daily Kcalories intake was brought up to more than 4.000 (just checking how much fat I will store comparing to when I was eating/training the same, naturally).
This afternoon I underwent a full abdominal echography to see the overall situation and try to figure out if the pang I felt sometimes around my lower back was due to a kidney problem. The response was negative, all the organs are fine and was told it might be a problem related to training, probably a muscular micro-lesion less than 1mm, therefore not visible.
The persistent sore throat, reported at week 1, it is still there.[/QUOTE]

*Day 29*

60 oxa / 50 mes  5.723 Kcal  (Shoulders, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Problems to fall asleep because I took the last tabs of Oxandrolone around midnight, 2 gr Ketoprofen foam, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 30*

70 oxa / 50 mes  4.790 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 2 gr Ketoprofen foam

*Day 31*

70 oxa / 50 mes  5.999 Kcal  (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 32*

70 oxa / 50 mes  3.461 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Diarrhea, 4 mg Loperamide, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 33*

70 oxa / 50 mes  2.763 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 200 mg Nimesulide, 4 gr Ketoprofen foam

*Day 34*

70 oxa / 50 mes  4.321 Kcal  (Chest & Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 35*

60 oxa / 50 mes  3.973 Kcal  (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Diarrhea, 100 mg Nimesulide

Updated Stats (from day 16, where I reached with this cycle, my previous natural limit):

Body Weight: 98,9 kg (217,6 lbs) *+4,66%*
Body Fat: 14,6% *+4,29%*
Water: 63,8% *+0,31%*
Estimated Muscle Mass: 80,3 kg (176,66 lbs) *+3,88%*

New BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate): 2.485 Kcal
(data given by Tanita BC-418)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 4.432

5TH WEEK NOTES
So, in 19 days I took 6,6 lbs of lean mass (estimate) while fat increased a bit more but still under control (considering also I am not eating low glycemic index carbs at all) and water kept at the same value.
I would say so far, oxandrolone is showing its ability to increase the lean mass controlling either the fat and the water.
I am quite satisfied because I think I can easily go down to 12% bf retaining most of the lean mass acquired. I will act so the last ten days of the cycle. Till that time, I want to continue eating that much calories and proteins. Perhaps I can start eating more oats instead of pasta and rice!!! :Chairshot: 

At day 30 I started to ingest 10 mg more of Oxandrolone daily, for a total of 70 mg.
At day 35 I went back to 60 mg since I noticed no differences at all and the back pain on the lumbar right region came back again in a vigorous way. I am getting tired of this also because in spite of the echography I took lastly (which was fine), the pain is always there and seems to get worse after I ingest Oxandrolone. I had no possibility, as previously stated, to go taking blood analyses a few days ago, but Ill go tomorrow morning. I want to see if the values related to the liver and the kidneys have stabilized or not. In negative case, it could be an explanation for the pain. Surely, I cannot keep taking nimesulide to get rid of the pain since it is very liver toxic too and gives diarrhea.
Strength keeps increasing.
The persistent sore throat, reported at week 1, it is finally gone.

*Day 36*

70 oxa / 50 mes  3.640 Kcal  (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

CHOLESTEROL TTL: 168 mg/dl (after: 179) (range 140-220) *day 36* (205)
CHOLESTEROL HDL: 41 mg/dl (*after: 13*) (range >=40) *day 36* (*11*)
INDEX RISK HDL: 4,1 (*after: 13,76*) (range till 5) *day 36* (*19,2*)
CHOLESTEROL LDL: 105 mg/dl (*after: 157*) (range 130-159, elevated borderline) *day 36* (*199*) (range >190, very elevated)
BILIRUBIN TTL: *1,98* mg/dl (*after: 0,83*) (range 0,2-1) *day 36* (*0,78*)
BILIRUBIN DIRECT: 0,22 mg/dl (after: 0,1) (range 0,05-0,3) *day 36* (0,1)
BILIRUBIN INDIRECT: *1,76* mg/dl (*after: 0,73*) (range till 0,7) *day 36* (*0,68*)
CREATININE: 1,2 mg/dl (after: 1,2) (range 0,8-1,3) *day 36* (1,2)
AZOTEMIA: *49* mg/dl (*after: 62*) (range 15-40) *day 36* (*57*)
AMYLASE: 62 u/ltr (after: 55) (range 25-115) *day 36* (63)
TRANSAMINASE GPT/ALT: 41 u/ltr (*after: 86*) (range 30-65) *day 36* (*66*)
TRANSAMINASE GOT/AST: 21 u/ltr (*after: 55*) (range 15-37) *day 36* (*50*)
GAMMA (YGT): 28 u/ltr (after: 29) (range 15-85) *day 36* (28)

INSULIN: 3,34 micru/ml (after: 3,6) (range 1,9-23) *day 36* (3,04)
IGF1: (184) (range 96-424) *day 36* (163)
TESTOSTERONE TTL: 3,86 ng/ml (*after: 0,72*) (range 1,75-7,81) *day 36* (*0,61*)
TESTOSTERONE FREE: 11,7 pg/ml (*after: 5,2*) (range 8-47) *day 36* (*4,8*)
SHBG: 38 pg/ml (*after: 10*) (range 13-71) *day 36* (*<0,1*)
FSH: 2,92 micru/ml (after: 2,09) (range 1,27-19,26) *day 36* (*2,56*)
LH: 3,80 miu/ml (after: 2,19) (range 1,24-8,62) *day 36* (*2,58*)
DHEAS: 191 mcg/dl (after: 209) (range 106-464) *day 36* (209,6)
HGH: 0,2 ng/ml (after: <0,1) (range 0,0-10) *day 36* (<0,1)

*Day 37*

70 oxa / 50 mes  3.511 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 100 mg Nimesulide

*Day 38*

60 oxa / 50 mes  3.332 Kcal  (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 39*

60 oxa / 50 mes  3.042 Kcal  (Cardio 30)
Sides & Notes: 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 40*

60 oxa / 50 mes  3.046 Kcal  (Cardio 30)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 41*

80 oxa / 50 mes  4.050 Kcal  (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Diarrhea, Dizziness late after dinner (several hours)

*Day 42*

60 oxa / 50 mes  4.824 Kcal  (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Diarrhea, Dizziness late after dinner (just a few minutes)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.635

6TH WEEK NOTES
On day 41 I tried to raise the input from Oxandrolone by ingesting 20 mg more, for a total of 80 mg. The results were dizziness and confusion. The morning after I felt also some kind of hallucination and both yesterday and today the diarrhea came back. I decided not to push my luck and from day 42 I went back to 60 mg ed. After all, I had good results so far and see no reasons to screw everything up.
This week I ate a bit less to see if I could obtain a better definition but I also had the possibility to work-out only two days, so this made my effort fruitless.
Regarding my sperm, I realized it is more viscous than before and it seems also heavier.
Wondering if PCT is required since both LH and FSH are (and always were) within the normal ranges.

*Day 43*

60 oxa / 50 mes  2.637 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Took 150 mg of Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid) by mistake

*Day 44*

60 oxa / 75 mes  2.659 Kcal  (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 45*

70 oxa / 75 mes  2.511 Kcal  (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil
+0.10 oxa

*Day 46*

70 oxa / 75 mes  3.373 Kcal  (Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 47*

70 oxa / 75 mes  2.754 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat/Ears/Head, 2 gr Paracetamol

*Day 48*

70 oxa / 75 mes  2.564 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat/Ears, 2 gr Paracetamol

*Day 49*

70 oxa / 75 mes  3.237 Kcal  (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat, 2 gr Paracetamol

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 2.819

7TH WEEK NOTES
On day 43, I wrongly took 150 mg of Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid) at breakfast. I had an intestine discomfort, which lasted the entire morning.
On day 44, I raised the Mesterolone (Proviron ) daily intake of about 0,25 mg.
On day 45, I raised the Oxandrolone (Anavar) daily intake of about 0,10 mg.
I did not notice any improvement of any sort.
I figure out that strength increase ceased, even though I have not pushed to the limit to avoid injuries since I work-out in solitude.
This week I lowered my daily Kcalories intake because I realized I was putting on too much fat. I should be now back to 14% or less maybe, while by the end of last week I surely was above 15%.
In any case, in the next weekend I am going to check my stats again.
In the following and last week (8th), I am going to lower the daily intake of anavar down to 60 mg while starting from tomorrow morning I shall not ingest proviron anymore.
I need to see if mesterolone is related to the upsurge of my LH and FSH values. So, next Saturday I shall take the last blood work on cycle and accordingly, I set up the proper pct.

----------


## BJJ

> Not really. Anavar is a really mild anabolic steroid . However, you could always take some clomid. That's what I do


Have you ever checked your blood before pct?

----------


## im9boss

ok so this may be a dumb question but im a newbie. Can you tell me why your doing PCT with var? i've read PCT is unecessary with var?

----------


## BJJ

> ok so this may be a dumb question but im a newbie. Can you tell me why your doing PCT with var? i've read PCT is unecessary with var?


Check the first page of this thread, post 2.
I just finished updating it, you can easily see the differences occurred in some of my values related to testosterone and its endogenous production.

A pct is required to help the organism to raise back test ttl, test free and shbg, mostly but not only. Without a proper pct, you may obtain anyway (or may not) those values back but in a longer period of time but, probably, losing what accomplished in terms of lean mass and strength.

In my experience, whoever told you pct with var is not required, gave you a wrong information.

----------


## kaigab

Very interesting thread. It should be in pubmed even if i am biased as italian as well  :Wink/Grin: 

Question: any update on blood work and final results?

I am still suprised of LH and FSH beeing in ok range while test beeing down to almost zero.

----------


## BJJ

> Very interesting thread. It should be in pubmed even if i am biased as italian as well 
> 
> Question: any update on blood work and final results?
> 
> I am still suprised of LH and FSH beeing in ok range while test beeing down to almost zero.


Thanks...  :Wink/Grin: 

Not only blood work but also sperm which I took two days ago and blood, today.
Next Tuesday my cycle will be over and from Wednesday I start the pct.
So, next Tuesday I will post the values and my final conclusion on the "bulking" period.

Regarding LH and FSH, I was surprised too!
Perhaps mesterolone helped? I'll see soon.

----------


## BJJ

*SPERM*
VOLUME: 2,8 ml [>= 2]__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _*2,5*
PH: *8,1* [7,2-8]__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______*7,2*
APPEARANCE: own_______________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______*own*
VISCOSITY: *increased +* [within limits]__________________________________________________ _____________________________________*within limits*
FLUIDIFICATION 45': *finely irregular* [physiologic]__________________________________________________ ____________________________*physiologic*
SPERMATOZOON CONCENTRATION: 89.000.000 /ml [>= 20.000.000]__________________________________________________ _____________*42.000.000*
EJACULATE SPERMATOZOON COUNT: 249.200.000 [>= 40.000.000]__________________________________________________ ______________*105.000.000*
2ND HOUR MOTILITY: 60 % [>= 50 %]__________________________________________________ ______________________________________*45*
TYPICAL MORPHOLOGIC SPERMATOZOON: *30* % [>= 35 %]__________________________________________________ _____________________*28*
ATYPICAL MORPHOLOGIC SPERMATOZOON: 70 %_________________________________________________ _______________________________*72*
LEUCOCYTE: 300.000 /ml [<= 1.000.000]__________________________________________________ ____________________________________*500.000*
ERYTHROCYTE: absent [absent/rare]__________________________________________________ _______________________________________*absent*
GERMINAL CELLS: rare [absent/rare]__________________________________________________ ________________________________________*present*
EPITHELIAL CELLS: rare [absent/rare]__________________________________________________ _______________________________________*absent*
SPERMAGGLUTINATION ZONES: rare [absent/rare]__________________________________________________ _____________________________*absent*

So, after 51 days a possible oligospermia is an issue while using anavar .
However, the most important parameters are still within the limits and either the viscosity as well as the fluidification improved.

----------


## im9boss

i see in parts of the forum you said your taking nolva and in parts it said your taking chlomid? i'm asking because i already have nolvadex only, and am wondering if it's sufficient. i've read suggesting nolva AND chlomid

and i saw your dosages for the var were different on various days, not a pattern. why is that? 

i about to start my cycle soon and i can either do 60mg for 9 weeks, or 80 mg for 7 weeks, or something in between (either 70, or start at 60 and work my way up to 80)
whats your opinion? how do you like the 60mg?

----------


## nilrac

Seems to me like 6 weeks @ 60mg per day is an ideal way to run this compound going on gains vs. sides, and time on generally. Plus cost  :Smilie: .

I spoke to a friend of mine yesterday who is very experienced with AAS and he suggested that clomid as PCT for a 6wk cycle of var at 60mg per day is overkill. Unless, as a grown man, I want to be reduced to tears  :Smilie: . He suggested clomid would be for more advanced cycles over longer periods of time.

And ofcourse the chance of estro sides is very unlikely from Oxandrolone, but having Tamoxifen on hand, as a super cautious safety measure, is advisable I believe. Even just for peace of mind.

Just my .02

----------


## BJJ

> *1* *i see in parts of the forum you said your taking nolva and in parts it said your taking chlomid?* i'm asking because i already have nolvadex only, and am wondering if it's sufficient. i've read suggesting nolva AND chlomid
> 
> *2* *and i saw your dosages for the var were different on various days, not a pattern. why is that?* 
> 
> i about to start my cycle soon and i can either do 60mg for 9 weeks, or 80 mg for 7 weeks, or something in between (either 70, or start at 60 and work my way up to 80)
> *3* *whats your opinion? how do you like the 60mg?*


These 8 weeks were an adventure for me:

1. That is because I left my endo while on cycle and I had to review many things he advised me.

2. I was trying to raise the ingestion till a level where I would have started to get sides (that level was 80 mg).

3. I had a very good strength increase at 60 mg ed. What are your stats?

In any case, if you have the time and will to read from the beginning to the end, you'll see I explain always the reasons for the changes in progress.

----------


## BJJ

> *Seems to me like 6 weeks @ 60mg per day is an ideal way to run this compound going on gains vs. sides, and time on generally. Plus cost .*
> 
> I spoke to a friend of mine yesterday who is very experienced with AAS and he suggested that clomid as PCT for a 6wk cycle of var at 60mg per day is overkill. Unless, as a grown man, I want to be reduced to tears . He suggested clomid would be for more advanced cycles over longer periods of time.
> 
> And ofcourse the chance of estro sides is very unlikely from Oxandrolone, but having Tamoxifen on hand, as a super cautious safety measure, is advisable I believe. Even just for peace of mind.
> 
> Just my .02


Agreed

----------


## BJJ

Squat (legs) 100 kg (220 lbs) *NOW* 130 kg (286 lbs) *+30%*
One Arm Dumbbell Row (back) 30 kg (66 lbs) *NOW* 44 kg (96,8 lbs) *+46,66%*
Bench Press with Dumbbells (chest) 30 kg each (66 lbs) *NOW* 40 kg (88 lbs) *+33,33%*
Military Press with Dumbbells (shoulders) 24 kg each (52,8 lbs) *NOW* 34 kg (74,8 lbs)* +41,66%*
Dumbbells Curls (biceps - seated) 24 kg each (52,8 lbs) *NOW* 30 kg (66 lbs) *+25%*
Dumbbells Curls (triceps - lying down) 18 kg each (39,6 lbs) *NOW* 24 kg (52,8 lbs) *+33,33%*

(current-previous)/previous*100 = (+) increase% or (-) decrease%

----------


## amostofi1999

very nice.
what about weight or body composition?

----------


## BJJ

> very nice.
> what about weight or body composition?


Tomorrow I'll check my stats since it is my very last day on cycle, the 56th.
I'll use a Tanita BC-418, which I own in my studio.
So, the data will be quite accurate I would say, as usual.

In any case, by the end of the first week of pct, the 9th, I'll go in a private clinic to undergo a "Whole Body Hologic QDR-4500W DXA Fan-Beam Scanner".
The same machine used for my BMC before the cycle, which is located at post 2 of this thread; not the machine but the result.  :1laugh: 

After that, I believe I'll have a clear situation regarding the lean mass acquired.

----------


## PistolStarta

I thought var was super expensive, how do you afford this? Dont want specific numbers just asking if you are losing alot of cash.

----------


## BJJ

> I thought var was super expensive, how do you afford this? Dont want specific numbers just asking if you are losing alot of cash.


No I am not.
I bought what needed all in advance and started the cycle.
No big deal I would say.

----------


## laveycraft

expensive compared to other steroids . what i payed for mine i would of payed the same for say like creatine and some other waste of money supplement i though is anavar is like an in between works awesome. been on for about 3 weeks now much stronger i love it.. worth every penny

----------


## BJJ

*DAY 1*

Body Weight: 87,5 kg (192,5 lbs)
Body Fat: 12,9%
Body Water: 63,2%
Estimated Muscle Mass: 73,5 kg (161,7 lbs)

*DAY 16*

Body Weight: 94,5 kg (207,9 lbs) *+8%*
Body Fat: 14% *+8,52%*
Water: 63,6% *+0,63%*
Estimated Muscle Mass: 77,3 kg (170,6 lbs) *+5,17%*

*DAY 35*

Body Weight: 98,9 kg (217,6 lbs) *+4,66%*
Body Fat: 14,6% *+4,29%*
Water: 63,8% *+0,31%*
Estimated Muscle Mass: 80,3 kg (176,66 lbs) *+3,88%*

*DAY 56*

Body Weight: 96,5 kg (212,3 lbs) *-2,42%*
Body Fat: 14% *-4,10%*
Water: 64% *+0,31%*
Estimated Muscle Mass: 78,9 kg (173,58 lbs) *-1,74%*

Comparison from the beginning after 8 weeks of Oxandrolone averaged out at 63 mg ed:

Body Weight: 96,5 kg (212,3 lbs) *+10,28%*
Body Fat: 14% *+8,52%*
Water: 64% *+1,26%*
Estimated Muscle Mass: 78,9 kg (173,58 lbs) *+7,34%*

Lean Mass Acquisition: *5,4 kg* (*11,88 lbs*)
(data given by Tanita BC-418)

In one week from today, I am going to take a new Whole Body Hologic QDR-4500W DXA Fan-Beam Scanner to be compared with the one taken before starting the cycle, in order to obtain precise numbers.

In any case, since I am already aware there will not be much differences, I can be satisfied because I improved my strength around 35%, I acquired almost 12 lbs of lean mass while some people were talking about only 5 lbs and kept the fat at almost the same level, not much difference between 12,9% and 14%; I can still flip over!

Furthermore, it is nice to observe that when I was "bulking" I increased about the same percentage either the lean mass and the fat while when at then end I decided to reduce the Kcalories, I lost 2% of lean mass but 4% of fat.
So, Oxandrolone has destroying fat capabilities indeed.

----------


## elpropiotorvic

Very naiice!! 

U should be kicking some serious @ss with ur new strength

----------


## BJJ

*Day1*
60 oxa - 3.436 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day2*
60 oxa - 3.550 Kcal - (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Bursts of Heat

*Day3*
60 oxa - 3.199 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness

*Day4*
60 oxa - 3.340 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, 4 mg Loperamide

*Day5*
60 oxa - 2.799 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, Yellow Skin (left biceps & shoulder), 4 mg Loperamide, 25.000 iu Neomycin

*Day6*
60 oxa - 3.646 Kcal - (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Tiredness, Yellow Skin, 1 gr Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day7*
60 oxa - 3.912 Kcal - (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Yellow Skin, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.411

1ST WEEK NOTES
The first week was very hard to go through. No will to eat at all and lots of problem to understand if the diarrhea was due from oxandrolone or liv.52; also I got a persistent sore throat.
The strength increase was considerable, especially on legs and shoulders.
As daily supplements throughout the cycle: (Multi Vitamins/Minerals 1 tb, Vitamin C/Ester 3 gr, EFA complex 6 gr, ALA 600 mg, LIV.52 2 tabs, CLA 4 gr, ZMA, Tribulus Terrestris 3 gr, Chromium Picolinate 400 mcg, Acetyl L-Carnitine 600 mg, Coenzyme Q10, Glutamine 35 gr, BCAA 20 gr, MT Gakic Hardcore 8 tbs (only before w/o), UN Animal Flex 1 pckt.

*Day 8*
60 oxa - 2.415 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite,Tiredness, 25.000 iu Neomycin, 4 mg Loperamide, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

*Day 9*
60 oxa - 3.400 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 10*
60 oxa - 2.760 Kcal - (Cardio 35’)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 11*
60 oxa - 4.208 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Oxandrolone kicked in

*Day 12*
60 oxa - 3.332 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 13*
60 oxa - 3.645 Kcal - (Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 14*
60 oxa - 3.976 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.392

2ND WEEK NOTES
At day 11 finally Anavar showed me its potentiality by improving my strength incredibly. Not only the power to lift was improved but also the reps needed to exhaust the muscles.
Furthermore, I am starving again especially after the work-outs.
The diarrhea was given by Liv.52. I solved the problem by taking only 1 tab in the morning.

*Day 15*
60 oxa – 3.698 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 16*
60 oxa – 3.645 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 17*
60 oxa – 3.591 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Diarrhea, 4 mg Loperamide

*Day 18*
60 oxa – 3.016 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region
Blood Work: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=404795

*Day 19*
60 oxa – 3.125 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 20*
60 oxa – 3.332 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, 400 mg Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day 21*
60 oxa – 3.129 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, Headache, 2 gr Paracetamol, 500 mg Acetylcysteine Antibiotic, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.362

3RD WEEK NOTES
I understood that the best time to take oxandrolone is after the meals, not before or during, otherwise I get diarrhea and this apart from ingesting Liv.52.
Unfortunately, I got a bit sick yesterday and today is even worse. Every year I suffer from sinusitis which I hope to cure as fast as possible.
In regards of the results of blood analyses above reported, my bilirubin values decreased within the normal range, as expected. Oxandrolone seems "to cure" Gilberts's syndrome (which I have).
Of course, either LDL, HDL and Transaminase went up; as well as azotemia which was already a bit higher and surely it could not start declining during the cycle.
Strangely, creatinine stayed at the same level but this is good in relation with azotemia.
What I do not understand are the values related to LH, FSH and HGH compared with DHEAS. Hopefully my endocrinologist, if not someone in here before, will explain this issue.

*Day 22*
60 oxa – 5.096 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, Diarrhea, 100 mg Nimesulide, 500 mg Acetylcysteine Antibiotic, 600 mg Acetylcysteine, 25.000 iu Neomycin, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 23*
60 oxa – 4.003 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 24*
60 oxa – 3.650 Kcal – (Back)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 25*
60 oxa – 4.021 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 26*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 4.374 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 27*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 5.338 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Libido is Back, Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 28*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.071 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 4.221

4TH WEEK NOTES
Fortunately sinusitis, which I had between day 20/22, went away quickly.
At day 26 I added 3 gr of Tribulus Terrestris daily.
Since also from day 26 I am ingesting Mesterolone, my libido in back and I have very hard erections. Furthermore, I feel I can last longer while having sex.
My daily Kcalories intake was brought up to more than 4.000 (just checking how much fat I will store comparing to when I was eating/training the same, naturally).
This afternoon I underwent a full abdominal echography to see the overall situation and try to figure out if the pang I felt sometimes around my lower back was due to a kidney problem. The response was negative, all the organs are fine and was told it might be a problem related to training, probably a muscular micro-lesion less than 1mm, therefore not visible.
The persistent sore throat, reported at week 1, it is still there.[/QUOTE]

*Day 29*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 5.723 Kcal – (Shoulders, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Problems to fall asleep because I took the last tabs of Oxandrolone around midnight, 2 gr Ketoprofen foam, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 30*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 4.790 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 2 gr Ketoprofen foam

*Day 31*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 5.999 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 32*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.461 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Diarrhea, 4 mg Loperamide, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 33*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 2.763 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 200 mg Nimesulide, 4 gr Ketoprofen foam

*Day 34*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 4.321 Kcal – (Chest & Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 35*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.973 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Diarrhea, 100 mg Nimesulide

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 4.432

5TH WEEK NOTES
So, in 19 days I took 6,6 lbs of lean mass (estimate) while fat increased a bit more but still under control (considering also I am not eating low glycemic index carbs at all) and water kept at the same value.
I would say so far, oxandrolone is showing its ability to increase the lean mass controlling either the fat and the water.
I am quite satisfied because I think I can easily go down to 12% bf retaining most of the lean mass acquired. I will act so the last ten days of the cycle. Till that time, I want to continue eating that much calories and proteins. Perhaps I can start eating more oats instead of pasta and rice.
At day 30 I started to ingest 10 mg more of Oxandrolone daily, for a total of 70 mg.
At day 35 I went back to 60 mg since I noticed no differences at all and the back pain on the lumbar right region came back again in a vigorous way. I am getting tired of this also because in spite of the echography I took lastly (which was fine), the pain is always there and seems to get worse after I ingest Oxandrolone. I had no possibility, as previously stated, to go taking blood analyses a few days ago, but I’ll go tomorrow morning. I want to see if the values related to the liver and the kidneys have stabilized or not. In negative case, it could be an explanation for the pain. Surely, I cannot keep taking nimesulide to get rid of the pain since it is very liver toxic too and gives diarrhea.
Strength keeps increasing.
The persistent sore throat, reported at week 1, it is finally gone.

*Day 36*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.640 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil
Blood Work: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=406359

*Day 37*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.511 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 100 mg Nimesulide

*Day 38*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.332 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 39*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.042 Kcal – (Cardio 30’)
Sides & Notes: 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 40*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.046 Kcal – (Cardio 30’)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 41*

80 oxa / 50 mes – 4.050 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Diarrhea, Dizziness late after dinner (several hours)

*Day 42*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 4.824 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Diarrhea, Dizziness late after dinner (just a few minutes)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.635

6TH WEEK NOTES
On day 41 I tried to raise the input from Oxandrolone by ingesting 20 mg more, for a total of 80 mg. The results were dizziness and confusion. The morning after I felt also some kind of hallucination and both yesterday and today the diarrhea came back. I decided not to push my luck and from day 42 I went back to 60 mg ed. After all, I had good results so far and see no reasons to screw everything up.
This week I ate a bit less to see if I could obtain a better definition but I also had the possibility to work-out only two days, so this made my effort fruitless.
Regarding my sperm, I realized it is more viscous than before and it seems also heavier.
Wondering if PCT is required since both LH and FSH are (and always were) within the normal ranges.

*Day 43*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 2.637 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Took 150 mg of Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid) by mistake

*Day 44*

60 oxa / 75 mes – 2.659 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 45*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 2.511 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil
+0.10 oxa

*Day 46*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 3.373 Kcal – (Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 47*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 2.754 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat/Ears/Head, 2 gr Paracetamol

*Day 48*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 2.564 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat/Ears, 2 gr Paracetamol

*Day 49*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 3.237 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat, 2 gr Paracetamol

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 2.819

7TH WEEK NOTES
On day 43, I wrongly took 150 mg of Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid) at breakfast. I had an intestine discomfort, which lasted the entire morning.
On day 44, I raised the Mesterolone (Proviron ) daily intake of about 0,25 mg.
On day 45, I raised the Oxandrolone (Anavar) daily intake of about 0,10 mg.
I did not notice any improvement of any sort.
I figure out that strength increase ceased, even though I have not pushed to the limit to avoid injuries since I work-out in solitude.
This week I lowered my daily Kcalories intake because I realized I was putting on too much fat. I should be now back to 14% or less maybe, while by the end of last week I surely was above 15%.
In any case, in the next weekend I am going to check my stats again.
In the following and last week (8th), I am going to lower the daily intake of anavar down to 60 mg while starting from tomorrow morning I shall not ingest proviron anymore.
I need to see if mesterolone is related to the upsurge of my LH and FSH values. So, next Saturday I shall take the last blood work on cycle and accordingly, I set up the proper pct.

*Day 50*

60 oxa – 2.589 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Cough, 2 gr Paracetamol, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 51*

60 oxa – 3.299 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Cough, 1 gr Paracetamol
Sperm Analyses: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=407537

*Day 52*

60 oxa – 3.051 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Cough, 1 gr Paracetamol

*Day 53*

60 oxa – 2.978 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 54*

60 oxa – 2.897 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 55*

60 oxa – 3.040 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 56*

70 oxa – 2.598 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil
Blood Wok: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=408288

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 2.921
Daily Average Bulking KCalories Intake (56 days): 3.159
Oxandrolone Daily Ingestion Average (56 days): 63 mg

8TH WEEK NOTES
Nothing particular to report on this final week, except I lowered the total daily intake of Kcalories to prepare myself for the following three weeks of PCT, where I am going to use 3.000 Kcalories on a daily average with 300/330 grams of protides.
Furthermore, after discontinuing the Mesterolone at day 49, the FSH dropped back while testosterone free doubled, +100%.

”BULKING” CONCLUSIONS
Being on my first cycle, I believe I had good results especially in strength.
After almost 20 years of martial arts as well as training in the gym plus other spare sport activities, I started this cycle with a bit of concern in relation to some elbows pangs I have felt in the last months. So, I never pushed to the limit really and always trained in solitude to avoid that.
Furthermore, I was not able to accomplish a ”perfect” diet regime throughout the cycle, as I wanted to, due to personal reasons which also led me to sleep no so goodly and enough.
Said that, I believe I could have achieved better results but I am satisfied anyway.

As reported during the cycle, Oxandrolone gave me some strong dizziness at 80 mg ed.
For the rest, except a total loss of appetite the first week or so and some diarrhea till I understood when to ingest the drug (after main meals), I would say I have gotten only benefits. The pang on my elbows disappeared after one week supporting what I read regarding the ability of Oxandrolone to cure problems related to ligaments and tendons, or in case to relieve the associated pain.
Another good ability was in regard of water percentage in the body. I ate a lot, compared to what I have burned especially in the first weeks, and I got just a little fat on and no water retention at all. This is good for martial artists or any other sport where the “not useful” weight is an issue.
Regarding vascularization, I cannot say I noticed any improvement because I did not mean to use this compound to get ripped, while I wanted more strength and see how much lean mass I could obtain. I started the cycle at 12,9% bf, went up to 14,6% bf and then back to 14% bf now, more or less. The BMC will tell me exactly. However, I tried to reduce the daily Kcalories at the end of the cycle but mostly helped me to reduce the fat I have put on, not to see any veins on my chest.

In one week from now I will undergo a new Whole Body Hologic QDR-4500W DXA Fan-Beam Scanner, to see the differences with the one taken just before commencing the cycle, posted at page 1 of this thread.
I am looking forward to see what 8 weeks of Oxandrolone gave me in lean mass acquisition, already knowing that my overall strength increased about 35% (estimate):

Squat (legs) 100 kg (220 lbs) *130* (286 lbs) *+30%*
One Arm Dumbbell Row (back) 30 kg (66 lbs) *44* (96,8 lbs) *+46,66%*
Bench Press with Dumbbells (chest) 30 kg each (66 lbs) *40* (88 lbs) *+33,33%*
Military Press with Dumbbells (shoulders) 24 kg each (52,8 lbs) *34* (74,8 lbs)* +41,66%*
Dumbbells Curls (biceps - seated) 24 kg each (52,8 lbs) *30* (66 lbs) *+25%*
Dumbbells Curls (triceps - lying down) 18 kg each (39,6 lbs) *24* (52,8 lbs) *+33,33%*

Comparison from the beginning after 8 weeks of Oxandrolone averaged out at 63 mg ed:

Body Weight: 96,5 kg (212,3 lbs) *+10,28%*
Body Fat: 14% *+8,52%*
Water: 64% *+1,26%*
Estimated Muscle Mass: 78,9 kg (173,58 lbs) *+7,34%*

Lean Mass Acquisition: *5,4 kg* (*11,88 lbs*)
(data given by Tanita BC-418)

_(current-previous)/previous*100 = (+) increase% or (-) decrease%_

----------


## BJJ

Originally Posted by Ronnie Rowland
Look i would like to ask you this question:

I am about to end my oxandrolone cycle of 60/70 mg ed for 8 weeks.
From week 4 to 7 i added mesterolone 50/75 mg ed.
My last blood work shows test ttl, test free and shbg down while lh and fsh within the normal ranges (they even started to raise back after the first weeks, perhaps due to proviron ?).

Anyway, my question is: May i just quit the anavar and start a 8 week cycle of test en 500 mg ew? *yes*
so, it would be a 8 week on oral and another 8 week on test, for a ttl of 16 weeks. *run the oral for 10 weeks then run the test at 500 mgs for 10 weeks. Cut dosages by half during 2 week deloads*. Then, since my values right now are not so bad and had no signs of estrogenic activity and testicular shrinkage, i should be able, with a proper pct, to recover completely.

What do you think? *yes* does make sense to jump from an anavar only cycle to a test en only cycle without any pct + time off in the middle? *it won't hurt you if you do it for only 20 weeks*
this is the thread related to my cycle, in the post n.2 all the values:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=403234

thank you very much

----------


## BJJ

> Very naiice!! 
> 
> U should be kicking some serious @ss with ur new strength


Yes, even though bjj is all about technique mostly, I can do some things much easily than before.

----------


## BJJ

DAYS______________________________________________ _*16*_________________________________*35*________________________________*56*

Body Weight: 87,5 kg (192,5 lbs)_________________________*94,5* kg (*207,9* lbs) *+8%*_____________*98,9* kg (*217,6* lbs) *+13,02%*_________*96,5* kg (*212,3* lbs) *+10,28%*
Body Fat: 12,9%______________________________________*14*% *+8,52%*_______________________*14,6*% *+13,17%*____________________*14*% *+8,52%*
Body Water: 63,2%____________________________________*63,6*% *+0,63%*_____________________*63,8*% *+0,94%*_____________________*64%* *+1,26%*
Estimated Muscle Mass: 73,5 kg (161,7 lbs)________________*77,3* kg (*170,6* lbs) *+5,17%*__________*80,3* kg (*176,66* lbs) *+9,25%*_________*78,9* kg (*173,58* lbs) *+7,34%*

Lean Mass Acquisition: *5,4* kg (*11,88* lbs)

(data given by Tanita BC-418)

----------


## elpropiotorvic

I like that u made this log....this is how a cycle is run...too bad ur endo was using u ...but im glad you made good gains, a lot of ppl where very skeptical and even flaming but i think it was overall what u were wanting to achieve ...props for the discipline

----------


## BJJ

> I like that u made this log....this is how a cycle is run...too bad ur endo was using u ...but im glad you made good gains, a lot of ppl where very skeptical and even flaming but i think it was overall what u were wanting to achieve ...props for the discipline


Well thanks.

The endo is gone yes and yet I have not found one reliable, who has used or treated people who used aas, I mean.

Regarding the flaming, I am glad I was right not because I needed to be but just because I could not risk to ingest anavar and inject testosterone while suffering from the Gilbert's syndrome.
Now I know, I can either run a single cycle of those compounds or both together.

----------


## BJJ

.....

----------


## BJJ

*Red* ones not in range from day 0.
*Green* ones improved from previous values related to day 0.
__________________________________________________ _________Day *18*_______________Day *36*_______________Day *51*_______________Day *56*

*BLOOD*
ERYTHROCYTES: 5,18 mil/mmc [4 - 5,5]__________________________________________________ __________________________________________*5,2*
LEUCOCYTES: 7,3 mila/mmc [4 - 9]__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________*8,6*
- NE: 4,1 / 55,8 % [2 - 6 / 37 - 80]
- LY: 2,4 / 33 % [0,6 - 36 / 10 - 50]
- MO: 0,6 / 8,6 % [0 - 0,9 / 0 - 12]
- EO: 0,2 / 2,1 % [0 - 7 / 0 - 7]
- BA: 0 / 0,5 % [0 - 0,2 / 0 - 2,5]
HEMOGLOBIN: 14,9 gr/dl [14 - 18]__________________________________________________ _______________________________________________*13,6*
HEMATOCRIT: 45,3 % [42 - 52]__________________________________________________ _________________________________________________*44,1*
MCV: 87,5 femtol [82 - 98]__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___*84,8*
MCH: 28,8 picogr. [27 - 31]__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___*26,2*
MCHC: 32,9 gr/dl [32 - 36]__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___*30,8*
GRAN-NEUTROPHILS: 55,8 % [37 -80]__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________*60,7*
GRAN-EOSINOPHILS: 2,1 % [0,0 - 7]__________________________________________________ _____________________________________________*1,9*
GRAN-BASOPHILS: 0,5 % [0,0 - 2,5]__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________*0,7*
LYMPHOCYTES: 33,0 % [10 - 50]__________________________________________________ ________________________________________________*28,4*
MONOCYTES: 8,6 % [0,0 - 12]__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________*8,3*
PLATELETS: 163000 /mmc [150000 - 400000]__________________________________________________ ______________________________________*336000*

*LIVER, KIDNEYS & PANCREAS*
AZOTEMIA: *49* mg/dl [15-40]_______________________________________*62*___________________*57*________________________________________*56*
CREATININE: 1,2 mg/dl [0,8 - 1,3]___________________________________*1,2*__________________*1,2*________________________________________*1,3*
CHOLESTEROL TTL: 168 mg/dl [140 - 220]____________________________*179*__________________*205*_______________________________________*232*
CHOLESTEROL HDL: 41 mg/dl [> 40]__________________________________*13*___________________*11*________________________________________*13*
INDEX RISK HDL: 4,1 [till 5]________________________________________*13,76*________________*19,2*_______________________________________*17,8*
CHOLESTEROL LDL: *105* mg/dl [< 100]________________________________*157*_________________*199*_______________________________________*202*
BILIRUBIN TTL: *1,98* mg/dl [0,2-1]___________________________________*0,83*________________*0,78*
BILIRUBIN DIRECT: 0,22 mg/dl [0,05 - 0,3]_____________________________*0,1*_________________*0,1*
BILIRUBIN INDIRECT: *1,76* mg/dl [till 0,7]______________________________*0,73*________________*0,68*
TRANSAMINASE GOT/AST: 21 u/ltr [15 - 37]___________________________*55*_________________*50*__________________________________________*46*
TRANSAMINASE GPT/ALT: 41 u/ltr [30 - 65]___________________________*86*__________________*66*__________________________________________*95*
GAMMA (YGT): 28 u/ltr [15 - 85]____________________________________*29*__________________*28*__________________________________________*26*
AMYLASE: 62 u/ltr [25 - 115]_______________________________________*55*__________________*63*__________________________________________*64*
PROTIDES TTL: 7,4 gr/dl [6,4 - 8,2]__________________________________________________ _______________________________________________*7,8*
ALBUMIN: 59,1 % (4,37 g/dl) [51 - 63,3]__________________________________________________ ___________________________________________*60,3*
ALFA 1: 2,9 % (0,21 g/dl) [2,2 - 4,3]__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________*2,4*
ALFA 2: 10,1 % (0,75 g/dl) [9,5 - 14]__________________________________________________ _____________________________________________*12,6*
BETA: *9,6* % (0,71 g/dl) [10-14,5]__________________________________________________ _______________________________________________*11,3*
GAMMA: 18,3 % (1,35 g/dl) [12 - 20]__________________________________________________ _____________________________________________*13,4*
A/G RATIO: 1,44 [1,0 - 1,7]__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___*1,52*
PSA: 0,64 ng/ml [till 4]__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______*0,39*

*HORMONAL*
INSULIN : 3,34 micru/ml [1,9 - 23]___________________________________*3,6*_________________*3,04*
IGF-1: 190 ng/ml [96 - 424]_______________________________________*184*_________________*163*
CORTISOL: 12,53 mg/dl [8,7 - 22,4]__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________*13,64*
HTG: 7,65 ng/ml [0,0 - 35]
PRL: 9,88 ng/ml [2,64 - 13,13]__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _*12,78*
FT3: 3,48 pg/ml [2,2 - 4,7]__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____*4,82*
FT4: 1,26 ng/dl [0,8 - 2]__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______*1,29*
TESTOSTERONE TTL: 3,86 ng/ml [1,75 - 7,81]________________________*0,72*________________*0,61*
TESTOSTERONE FREE: 11,7 pg/ml [8 - 47]____________________________*5,2*_________________*4,8*__________________________________________*9,6*
SHBG: 38 pg/ml [13 - 71]_________________________________________*10*_________________*<0,1*
ESTRADIOL 17-BETA: 36 pg/ml [<20 - 47]__________________________________________________ __________________________________________*9*
PROGESTERONE: 0,93 ng/ml [0,14 - 2,06]
FSH: 4,16 miu/ml [1,27 - 19,26]____________________________________*2,09*_________________*2,56*________________________________________*1,42*
TSH: 2,92 micru/ml [0,34 - 5,6]__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________*3,88*
LH: 3,80 miu/ml [1,24 - 8,62]______________________________________*2,19*_________________*2,58*________________________________________*2,61*
DHEA: 7,3 ng/ml [2,5 - 9,5]
DHEAS: 191 mcg/dl [106 - 464]____________________________________*209*_________________*209,6*
DHT: 71 ng/ml [31 - 146]
HGH: 0,2 ng/ml [0,0 - 10]________________________________________*<0,1*_________________*<0,1*

After discontinuing the Mesterolone at day 49, the FSH dropped back while testosterone free doubled, +100%!!!... but I was still ingesting Oxandrolone.

Anyone able to explain why?
Any clues?

----------


## pwnflow

Wow very impressive log, I am very inclined towards doing my own anavar cycle in summer so this is going to be very help. Please keep updating how PCT and how you levels come back to normal. Your HDL/LDL levels and liver panel is a wreck, man I hope is comes back in control. Good luck!

On topic, I thought that anavar was very easy on liver, then why such inflated levels?

----------


## BJJ

> Wow very impressive log *thanks*, I am very inclined towards doing my own anavar cycle in summer so this is going to be very help. *good luck then* Please keep updating how PCT and how you levels come back to normal. *sure I will* Your HDL/LDL levels and liver panel is a wreck, man I hope is comes back in control. Good luck!
> 
> On topic, I thought that anavar was very easy on liver, then why such inflated levels? *it is easy on liver comparing it to other compounds!*


bolds

----------


## pwnflow

> bolds


Wow then I don't even want to know what will winstrol , or worse, anadrol do to your liver panel. :Wink/Grin: 

Might rethink about orals then, well good luck.

Also few specific question,

Why did are you using both clomid and nolvadex , I thought only one of them is good enough for proper pct.

And any specific reason to add proviron to the cycle?

----------


## TASSY5

I have a question....Can women take Anivar like us guys do or would it hurt them. My wife is asking the question. :Hmmmm:

----------


## BJJ

> Wow then I don't even want to know what will winstrol , or worse, anadrol do to your liver panel.
> 
> Might rethink about orals then, well good luck.
> 
> *the cycle is not over and my organism, yet, did not have the time to recover. If I were you, I would wait the final results to have a more complete view.*
> 
> Also few specific question,
> 
> Why did are you using both clomid and nolvadex , I thought only one of them is good enough for proper pct.
> ...


****
Of all the testosterone product from the human body only a small share circulates in the blood in a free-form. Inside the stream circulatory, as happens to many other hormones, testosterone is situated largely linked (98%) to specific plasma proteins (sex hormone-binding globulin) that inactivate it temporarily.
According to the requests metabolic a small share of these bonds may break, leaving the testosterone free to migrate to the cells and adjust the gene transcription. For these proteins bind to the proviron breaks the link steroids-SHBG making free these hormones and thereby improving the effects substances.*

----------


## BJJ

> I have a question....Can women take Anivar like us guys do or would it hurt them. My wife is asking the question.


"Women like Anavar because very little masculinisation in any form have been seen among woman who have used Anavar at a dose of 5 mg daily. Most women start out on 1 tablet per day and go up to three tablets daily. The dosage of 5 mg of anavar per day has worked out to be the optimum. The first signs of virilizaton could include persistent hoarseness, deepening of the women's voice, acne, decreased libido, and/or clitoral enlargement. If any of these symptoms appear, the woman should end the cycle immediately."

----------


## BJJ

> *Red* ones not in range from day 0.
> *Green* ones improved from previous values related to day 0.
> __________________________________________________ _________Day *18*_______________Day *36*_______________Day *51*_______________Day *56*
> 
> *BLOOD*
> ERYTHROCYTES: 5,18 mil/mmc [4 - 5,5]__________________________________________________ __________________________________________*5,2*
> LEUCOCYTES: 7,3 mila/mmc [4 - 9]__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________*8,6*
> - NE: 4,1 / 55,8 % [2 - 6 / 37 - 80]
> - LY: 2,4 / 33 % [0,6 - 36 / 10 - 50]
> ...





> i thinik a while back somebody mentioned a rebound ....that i said i thought i experienced as well, maybe that?





> Actually I could expect a rebound once I stop ingesting Oxandrolone not during the cycle.
> The test free increase, happened in the last week or ten days I believe.
> So, my question is why?





> ya, that is weird. and its enough of an increase, that i wouldnt guess it was something you ate before the test or something like that.





> Absolutely not. I was on a empty stomach, as usual, and was eating normally as well as training normally.
> The only thing that changed is that I got rid of proviron .
> 
> I really cannot give an explanation to this happenings.
> If I knew, I would have checked also test ttl and shbg but I was sure they were very low like the other exams and took only test free as a must.





> Well that's nice !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can't really complain, everyone's body is different generally the same but different. Everything on paper dosent happen in real life.





> are those cholesterol numbers as scary as they look to my uneducated eye?





> Yes they are!
> HDL and LDL are both very bad and the index risk says it all.
> I hope now my system will clean up that.


.....

----------


## BJJ

Lean Body Mass Acquisition (LBM): *9,043* kg (*19,89* lbs)

by _"Whole Body Hologic QDR-4500W DXA Fan-Beam Scanner"_

----------


## Narkissos

Stayed here all night and read the whole thread from page 1 til the end.

I give it 5 stars.

Thanks for sharing.

----------


## BJJ

> Stayed here all night and read the whole thread from page 1 til the end.
> 
> I give it 5 stars.
> 
> Thanks for sharing.


Thank you for noticing my efforts and, being so experienced, also to give your time to a topic you already know.

I was pleased to read you post this morning.  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## BJJ

*Day1*
60 oxa - 3.436 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day2*
60 oxa - 3.550 Kcal - (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Bursts of Heat

*Day3*
60 oxa - 3.199 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness

*Day4*
60 oxa - 3.340 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, 4 mg Loperamide

*Day5*
60 oxa - 2.799 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, Yellow Skin (left biceps & shoulder), 4 mg Loperamide, 25.000 iu Neomycin

*Day6*
60 oxa - 3.646 Kcal - (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Tiredness, Yellow Skin, 1 gr Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day7*
60 oxa - 3.912 Kcal - (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Yellow Skin, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.411

1ST WEEK NOTES
The first week was very hard to go through. No will to eat at all and lots of problem to understand if the diarrhea was due from oxandrolone or liv.52; also I got a persistent sore throat.
The strength increase was considerable, especially on legs and shoulders.
As daily supplements throughout the cycle: (Multi Vitamins/Minerals 1 tb, Vitamin C/Ester 3 gr, EFA complex 6 gr, ALA 600 mg, LIV.52 2 tabs, CLA 4 gr, ZMA, Tribulus Terrestris 3 gr, Chromium Picolinate 400 mcg, Acetyl L-Carnitine 600 mg, Coenzyme Q10, Glutamine 35 gr, BCAA 20 gr, MT Gakic Hardcore 8 tbs (only before w/o), UN Animal Flex 1 pckt.

*Day 8*
60 oxa - 2.415 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite,Tiredness, 25.000 iu Neomycin, 4 mg Loperamide, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

*Day 9*
60 oxa - 3.400 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 10*
60 oxa - 2.760 Kcal - (Cardio 35’)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 11*
60 oxa - 4.208 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Oxandrolone kicked in

*Day 12*
60 oxa - 3.332 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 13*
60 oxa - 3.645 Kcal - (Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 14*
60 oxa - 3.976 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.392

2ND WEEK NOTES
At day 11 finally Anavar showed me its potentiality by improving my strength incredibly. Not only the power to lift was improved but also the reps needed to exhaust the muscles.
Furthermore, I am starving again especially after the work-outs.
The diarrhea was given by Liv.52. I solved the problem by taking only 1 tab in the morning.

*Day 15*
60 oxa – 3.698 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 16*
60 oxa – 3.645 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 17*
60 oxa – 3.591 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Diarrhea, 4 mg Loperamide

*Day 18*
60 oxa – 3.016 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region
Blood Work: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=404795

*Day 19*
60 oxa – 3.125 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 20*
60 oxa – 3.332 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, 400 mg Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day 21*
60 oxa – 3.129 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, Headache, 2 gr Paracetamol, 500 mg Acetylcysteine Antibiotic, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.362

3RD WEEK NOTES
I understood that the best time to take oxandrolone is after the meals, not before or during, otherwise I get diarrhea and this apart from ingesting Liv.52.
Unfortunately, I got a bit sick yesterday and today is even worse. Every year I suffer from sinusitis which I hope to cure as fast as possible.
In regards of the results of blood analyses above reported, my bilirubin values decreased within the normal range, as expected. Oxandrolone seems "to cure" Gilberts's syndrome (which I have).
Of course, either LDL, HDL and Transaminase went up; as well as azotemia which was already a bit higher and surely it could not start declining during the cycle.
Strangely, creatinine stayed at the same level but this is good in relation with azotemia.
What I do not understand are the values related to LH, FSH and HGH compared with DHEAS. Hopefully my endocrinologist, if not someone in here before, will explain this issue.

*Day 22*
60 oxa – 5.096 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, Diarrhea, 100 mg Nimesulide, 500 mg Acetylcysteine Antibiotic, 600 mg Acetylcysteine, 25.000 iu Neomycin, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 23*
60 oxa – 4.003 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 24*
60 oxa – 3.650 Kcal – (Back)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 25*
60 oxa – 4.021 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 26*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 4.374 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 27*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 5.338 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Libido is Back, Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 28*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.071 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 4.221

4TH WEEK NOTES
Fortunately sinusitis, which I had between day 20/22, went away quickly.
At day 26 I added 3 gr of Tribulus Terrestris daily.
Since also from day 26 I am ingesting Mesterolone, my libido in back and I have very hard erections. Furthermore, I feel I can last longer while having sex.
My daily Kcalories intake was brought up to more than 4.000 (just checking how much fat I will store comparing to when I was eating/training the same, naturally).
This afternoon I underwent a full abdominal echography to see the overall situation and try to figure out if the pang I felt sometimes around my lower back was due to a kidney problem. The response was negative, all the organs are fine and was told it might be a problem related to training, probably a muscular micro-lesion less than 1mm, therefore not visible.
The persistent sore throat, reported at week 1, it is still there.[/QUOTE]

*Day 29*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 5.723 Kcal – (Shoulders, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Problems to fall asleep because I took the last tabs of Oxandrolone around midnight, 2 gr Ketoprofen foam, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 30*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 4.790 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 2 gr Ketoprofen foam

*Day 31*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 5.999 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 32*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.461 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Diarrhea, 4 mg Loperamide, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 33*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 2.763 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 200 mg Nimesulide, 4 gr Ketoprofen foam

*Day 34*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 4.321 Kcal – (Chest & Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 35*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.973 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Diarrhea, 100 mg Nimesulide

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 4.432

5TH WEEK NOTES
So, in 19 days I took 6,6 lbs of lean mass (estimate) while fat increased a bit more but still under control (considering also I am not eating low glycemic index carbs at all) and water kept at the same value.
I would say so far, oxandrolone is showing its ability to increase the lean mass controlling either the fat and the water.
I am quite satisfied because I think I can easily go down to 12% bf retaining most of the lean mass acquired. I will act so the last ten days of the cycle. Till that time, I want to continue eating that much calories and proteins. Perhaps I can start eating more oats instead of pasta and rice.
At day 30 I started to ingest 10 mg more of Oxandrolone daily, for a total of 70 mg.
At day 35 I went back to 60 mg since I noticed no differences at all and the back pain on the lumbar right region came back again in a vigorous way. I am getting tired of this also because in spite of the echography I took lastly (which was fine), the pain is always there and seems to get worse after I ingest Oxandrolone. I had no possibility, as previously stated, to go taking blood analyses a few days ago, but I’ll go tomorrow morning. I want to see if the values related to the liver and the kidneys have stabilized or not. In negative case, it could be an explanation for the pain. Surely, I cannot keep taking nimesulide to get rid of the pain since it is very liver toxic too and gives diarrhea.
Strength keeps increasing.
The persistent sore throat, reported at week 1, it is finally gone.

*Day 36*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.640 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil
Blood Work: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=406359

*Day 37*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.511 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 100 mg Nimesulide

*Day 38*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.332 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 39*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.042 Kcal – (Cardio 30’)
Sides & Notes: 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 40*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.046 Kcal – (Cardio 30’)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 41*

80 oxa / 50 mes – 4.050 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Diarrhea, Dizziness late after dinner (several hours)

*Day 42*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 4.824 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Diarrhea, Dizziness late after dinner (just a few minutes)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.635

6TH WEEK NOTES
On day 41 I tried to raise the input from Oxandrolone by ingesting 20 mg more, for a total of 80 mg. The results were dizziness and confusion. The morning after I felt also some kind of hallucination and both yesterday and today the diarrhea came back. I decided not to push my luck and from day 42 I went back to 60 mg ed. After all, I had good results so far and see no reasons to screw everything up.
This week I ate a bit less to see if I could obtain a better definition but I also had the possibility to work-out only two days, so this made my effort fruitless.
Regarding my sperm, I realized it is more viscous than before and it seems also heavier.
Wondering if PCT is required since both LH and FSH are (and always were) within the normal ranges.

*Day 43*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 2.637 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Took 150 mg of Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid) by mistake

*Day 44*

60 oxa / 75 mes – 2.659 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 45*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 2.511 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil
+0.10 oxa

*Day 46*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 3.373 Kcal – (Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 47*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 2.754 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat/Ears/Head, 2 gr Paracetamol

*Day 48*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 2.564 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat/Ears, 2 gr Paracetamol

*Day 49*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 3.237 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat, 2 gr Paracetamol

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 2.819

7TH WEEK NOTES
On day 43, I wrongly took 150 mg of Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid) at breakfast. I had an intestine discomfort, which lasted the entire morning.
On day 44, I raised the Mesterolone (Proviron ) daily intake of about 0,25 mg.
On day 45, I raised the Oxandrolone (Anavar) daily intake of about 0,10 mg.
I did not notice any improvement of any sort.
I figure out that strength increase ceased, even though I have not pushed to the limit to avoid injuries since I work-out in solitude.
This week I lowered my daily Kcalories intake because I realized I was putting on too much fat. I should be now back to 14% or less maybe, while by the end of last week I surely was above 15%.
In any case, in the next weekend I am going to check my stats again.
In the following and last week (8th), I am going to lower the daily intake of anavar down to 60 mg while starting from tomorrow morning I shall not ingest proviron anymore.
I need to see if mesterolone is related to the upsurge of my LH and FSH values. So, next Saturday I shall take the last blood work on cycle and accordingly, I set up the proper pct.

*Day 50*

60 oxa – 2.589 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Cough, 2 gr Paracetamol, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 51*

60 oxa – 3.299 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Cough, 1 gr Paracetamol
Sperm Analyses: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=407537

*Day 52*

60 oxa – 3.051 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Cough, 1 gr Paracetamol

*Day 53*

60 oxa – 2.978 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 54*

60 oxa – 2.897 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 55*

60 oxa – 3.040 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 56*

70 oxa – 2.598 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil
Blood Wok: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=408288

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 2.921
Daily Average Bulking KCalories Intake (56 days): 3.159
Oxandrolone Daily Ingestion Average (56 days): 63 mg

8TH WEEK NOTES
Nothing particular to report on this final week, except I lowered the total daily intake of Kcalories to prepare myself for the following three weeks of PCT, where I am going to use 3.000 Kcalories on a daily average with 300/330 grams of protides.
Furthermore, after discontinuing the Mesterolone at day 49, the FSH dropped back while testosterone free doubled, +100%.

”BULKING” CONCLUSIONS
Being on my first cycle, I believe I had good results especially in strength.
After almost 20 years of martial arts as well as training in the gym plus other spare sport activities, I started this cycle with a bit of concern in relation to some elbows pangs I have felt in the last months. So, I never pushed to the limit really and always trained in solitude to avoid that.
Furthermore, I was not able to accomplish a ”perfect” diet regime throughout the cycle, as I wanted to, due to personal reasons which also led me to sleep no so goodly and enough.
Said that, I believe I could have achieved better results but I am satisfied anyway.

As reported during the cycle, Oxandrolone gave me some strong dizziness at 80 mg ed.
For the rest, except a total loss of appetite the first week or so and some diarrhea till I understood when to ingest the drug (after main meals), I would say I have gotten only benefits. The pang on my elbows disappeared after one week supporting what I read regarding the ability of Oxandrolone to cure problems related to ligaments and tendons, or in case to relieve the associated pain.
Another good ability was in regard of water percentage in the body. I ate a lot, compared to what I have burned especially in the first weeks, and I got just a little fat on and no water retention at all. This is good for martial artists or any other sport where the “not useful” weight is an issue.
Regarding vascularization, I cannot say I noticed any improvement because I did not mean to use this compound to get ripped, while I wanted more strength and see how much lean mass I could obtain. I started the cycle at 12,9% bf, went up to 14,6% bf and then back to 14% bf now, more or less. However, I tried to reduce the daily Kcalories at the end of the cycle but mostly helped me to reduce the fat I have put on, not to see any veins on my chest.

Overall Strength Increase: *35%* (estimate)

Squat (legs) 100 kg (220 lbs) *130* kg (286 lbs) *+30%*
One Arm Dumbbell Row (back) 30 kg (66 lbs) *44* kg (96,8 lbs) *+46,66%*
Bench Press with Dumbbells (chest) 30 kg each (66 lbs) *40* kg (88 lbs) *+33,33%*
Military Press with Dumbbells (shoulders) 24 kg each (52,8 lbs) *34* kg (74,8 lbs)* +41,66%*
Dumbbells Curls (biceps - seated) 24 kg each (52,8 lbs) *30* kg (66 lbs) *+25%*
Dumbbells Curls (triceps - lying down) 18 kg each (39,6 lbs) *24* kg (52,8 lbs) *+33,33%*

Lean Body Mass Acquisition (LBM): *9,043* kg (*19,89* lbs)
_by Whole Body Hologic QDR-4500W DXA Fan-Beam Scanner_

_(current-previous)/previous*100 = (+) increase% or (-) decrease%_

*Day 57*
*Day 1 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.555 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Flatulence, 20 mg Tadalafil

*Day 58*
*Day 2 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.556 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Increased size of testicles

*Day 59*
*Day 3 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.484 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 60*
*Day 4 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.596 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 61*
*Day 5 pct*

50 clo / 40 nol – 2.708 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Testicles back to normal

*Day 62*
*Day 6 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.383 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 63*
*Day 7 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.513 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.399

9TH WEEK NOTES
Strength kept being at the same level while muscles, right after I stopped the ingestion of Oxandrolone, started to ache for a few days.
Testicles increased the day after I started my pct, but after a few days came back to their normal size.
At day 5 (61) I ingested 40 mg of Tamoxifen Citrate to see if I could notice any difference but that day I could not eat as much as I had to, so I thwarted the attempt. In any case, having also used 50 mg of clomid, 20 mg of Nolva should be enough.
I plan to check my test levels plus LH and FSH by the end of the second week of PCT, to see the situation and plan the third week.
While, a full blood work to be compared to the one taken before the cycle, after my detox program (GSH), which will start three days after the end of PCT.
Regarding Tadalafil, I took it at day 1 to give it a try, in spite of during the entire cycle I had loss of libido but never problems to have sex normally. Anyway, I noticed no differences while my intestine became full of gas in about two hours. Fortunately, the morning after I was fine again.

----------


## pwnflow

Did research on Proviron , smart move adding it. But from what I understand I still think clomid is an overkill, just nolvo would have worked fine. Could you shed some light on how you decided to add both of them?

Ya I will base my decision to go with anavar or not depending on how well you levels stabilizes, good luck bro!

Also, what brand of oxandrolone did you use?

----------


## BJJ

> Did research on Proviron , smart move adding it. But from what I understand I still think clomid is an overkill, just nolvo would have worked fine. Could you shed some light on how you decided to add both of them?
> 
> Ya I will base my decision to go with anavar or not depending on how well you levels stabilizes, good luck bro!
> 
> Also, what brand of oxandrolone did you use?


Because by looking at my test levels before the cycle:

TESTOSTERONE TTL: *3,86* ng/ml [1,75 - 7,81]
TESTOSTERONE FREE: *11,7* pg/ml [8 - 47]
SHBG: *38* pg/ml [13 - 71]
DHT: *71* ng/ml [31 - 146]

you can see they were in the low part of the range. Except for SHBG, the other three should have been found higher!
So, by doing a strong pct, in relation to my levels at the end of my cycle, I want to see if I can raise those levels more than they used to be.

----------


## kaigab

SHBG was totally killed during your cycle.

I wonder what would have happened if injecting even a very low dose of test...it would have become all FREE test (so reaching similar levels of heavy injectable cycles...) ?

----------


## BJJ

> SHBG was totally killed during your cycle.
> 
> I wonder what would have happened if injecting even a very low dose of test...it would have become all FREE test (so reaching similar levels of heavy injectable cycles...) ?


The problem is, I did not check the DHT while on cycle and that is more important than test free. My mistake!
I will check it after the PCT and GSH protocol but I needed to see the values during also!  :Icon Pissedoff:

----------


## pwnflow

> Because by looking at my test levels before the cycle:
> 
> TESTOSTERONE TTL: *3,86* ng/ml [1,75 - 7,81]
> TESTOSTERONE FREE: *11,7* pg/ml [8 - 47]
> SHBG: *38* pg/ml [13 - 71]
> DHT: *71* ng/ml [31 - 146]
> 
> you can see they were in the low part of the range. Except for SHBG, the other three should have been found higher!
> So, by doing a strong pct, in relation to my levels at the end of my cycle, I want to see if I can raise those levels more than they used to be.


Interesting, I do understand it now. Oh and which lab's oxandrolone did you use?

----------


## BJJ

> Interesting, I do understand it now. Oh and which lab's oxandrolone did you use?


Oxanabolic

----------


## BJJ

During my bulking period I used to ingest 1.5 gr of protides per lbs while now on pct I raised the protein intake up to 2 gr per lbs of body weight.
My creatinine value, during the cycle, never went above 1,3 mg/dl, while in the past when training natural that value went way up.
So, by increasing the ingestions of protides I want keep my muscles, as a first priority, but also figure out if the values of creatinine will raise above the normal ranges.
Yet, I am not able to give any explanation to this happening.

Any clue will be much appreciated.

----------


## Roidbeginner

I was surprised that the haemoglobin, MCH, MCHV were declining even thugh you are on oxymetholone, which is purported to increase RBC. I wonder if you are prone to iron deficiency or going into one. the hematocrit did not increase either.

----------


## pwnflow

> I was surprised that the haemoglobin, MCH, MCHV were declining even thugh you are on oxymetholone, which is purported to increase RBC. I wonder if you are prone to iron deficiency or going into one. the hematocrit did not increase either.


Oxymetholone is anadrol . He was on oxandrolone, which is anavar . Completely different roids.

----------


## BJJ

> I was surprised that the haemoglobin, MCH, MCHV were declining even thugh you are on oxymetholone, which is purported to increase RBC. I wonder if you are prone to iron deficiency or going into one. the hematocrit did not increase either.


Sorry man but I think you mistook the thread.
The IUPAC are:

Oxymetholone (Anadrol ) 17β-hydroxy-2-hydroxymethylene-17α-methyl-3-androstanone

Oxandrolone (Anavar ) 17b-hydroxy-17a-methyl-2-oxa-5a-androstan-3-one (the one I took).

----------


## BJJ

> Oxymetholone is anadrol. He was on oxandrolone, which is anavar. Completely different roids.


I read you after having replied to him.
Thanks then.

----------


## pwnflow

> Oxanabolic


Looked around, Oxanabolic by asia pharma right? So would you recommend it over Bonavar by body research?

----------


## BJJ

> Looked around, Oxanabolic by asia pharma right? So would you recommend it over Bonavar by body research?


In order to recommend one or the other I should have run both, but that is not my case.
I am sorry.

----------


## pwnflow

> In order to recommend one or the other I should have run both, but that is not my case.
> I am sorry.


True. I quess oxandrolone is oxandrolone as long as it's oxandrolone.

Did you figure out why your FSH dropped and testosterone free doubled when you stopped proviron ?

Also, Why didn't you use a liver or lipid support supplement while on cycle?

----------


## BJJ

> True. I quess oxandrolone is oxandrolone as long as it's oxandrolone.
> 
> Did you figure out why your FSH dropped and testosterone free doubled when you stopped proviron ? *not really, also nobody on this forum was able to explain why.*
> 
> Also, Why didn't you use a liver or lipid support supplement while on cycle? *I did, check post number 3 on the notes: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=403234*


bolds

----------


## pwnflow

> bolds


Oh sweet, must have slipped out of my mind. Mmmm do you have any opinion on niacin? I though it was used in a cycle for lipids support.

----------


## BJJ

> Oh sweet, must have slipped out of my mind. Mmmm do you have any opinion on niacin? I though it was used in a cycle for lipids support.


The lack of vitamin PP (niacin or vitamin B3) occurs in people who take insufficient quantities of it and tryptophan. The event of this inadequate contribution goes under the name of pellagra. In general, such disease begins with problems in gastrointestinal disorders, mental disorders with fatigue, depression and memory disorders.
Since, the tryptophan may be a precursor of nicotinic acid is evaluated the needs of both and it is expressed in the form of niacin equivalent (60 mg of tryptophan = 1 mg of niacin).
Currently is recommended that a dose of Niacin equivalent of 20 mg for one that uses about 3.000 Kcal. The recruitment of high doses of nicotinic acid is able to reduce the levels of LDL-cholesterol and triglyceride levels plasma (inhibition of liver lipolysis) and to increase, at the same time, the share of HDL cholesterol. The main side effects that may occur are those vasodilators with appearance of flushing, erythema, itching, nausea, headaches and diarrhea. There are also had some cases of alteration of transaminases and hepatotoxicity.

----------


## redwings91

Awesome thread!

----------


## BJJ

> Awesome thread!


Thank you

----------


## BJJ

*Day1*
60 oxa - 3.436 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day2*
60 oxa - 3.550 Kcal - (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Bursts of Heat

*Day3*
60 oxa - 3.199 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness

*Day4*
60 oxa - 3.340 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, 4 mg Loperamide

*Day5*
60 oxa - 2.799 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, Yellow Skin (left biceps & shoulder), 4 mg Loperamide, 25.000 iu Neomycin

*Day6*
60 oxa - 3.646 Kcal - (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Tiredness, Yellow Skin, 1 g Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day7*
60 oxa - 3.912 Kcal - (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Yellow Skin, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.411

1ST WEEK NOTES
The first week was very hard to go through. No will to eat at all and lots of problem to understand if the diarrhea was due from oxandrolone or liv.52; also I got a persistent sore throat.
The strength increase was considerable, especially on legs and shoulders.
As daily supplements throughout the cycle: (Multi Vitamins/Minerals 1 tb, Vitamin C/Ester 3 gr, EFA complex 6 gr, ALA 600 mg, LIV.52 2 tabs, CLA 4 gr, ZMA, Tribulus Terrestris 3 gr, Chromium Picolinate 400 mcg, Acetyl L-Carnitine 600 mg, Coenzyme Q10, Glutamine 35 gr, BCAA 20 gr, MT Gakic Hardcore 8 tbs (only before w/o), UN Animal Flex 1 pckt.

*Day 8*
60 oxa - 2.415 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite,Tiredness, 25.000 iu Neomycin, 4 mg Loperamide, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

*Day 9*
60 oxa - 3.400 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 10*
60 oxa - 2.760 Kcal - (Cardio 35’)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 11*
60 oxa - 4.208 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Oxandrolone kicked in

*Day 12*
60 oxa - 3.332 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 13*
60 oxa - 3.645 Kcal - (Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 14*
60 oxa - 3.976 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.392

2ND WEEK NOTES
At day 11 finally Anavar showed me its potentiality by improving my strength incredibly. Not only the power to lift was improved but also the reps needed to exhaust the muscles.
Furthermore, I am starving again especially after the work-outs.
The diarrhea was given by Liv.52. I solved the problem by taking only 1 tab in the morning.

*Day 15*
60 oxa – 3.698 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 16*
60 oxa – 3.645 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 17*
60 oxa – 3.591 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Diarrhea, 4 mg Loperamide

*Day 18*
60 oxa – 3.016 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region
Blood Work: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=404795

*Day 19*
60 oxa – 3.125 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 20*
60 oxa – 3.332 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, 400 mg Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day 21*
60 oxa – 3.129 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, Headache, 2 g Paracetamol, 500 mg Acetylcysteine Antibiotic, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.362

3RD WEEK NOTES
I understood that the best time to take oxandrolone is after the meals, not before or during, otherwise I get diarrhea and this apart from ingesting Liv.52.
Unfortunately, I got a bit sick yesterday and today is even worse. Every year I suffer from sinusitis which I hope to cure as fast as possible.
In regards of the results of blood analyses above reported, my bilirubin values decreased within the normal range, as expected. Oxandrolone seems "to cure" Gilberts's syndrome (which I have).
Of course, either LDL, HDL and Transaminase went up; as well as azotemia which was already a bit higher and surely it could not start declining during the cycle.
Strangely, creatinine stayed at the same level but this is good in relation with azotemia.
What I do not understand are the values related to LH, FSH and HGH compared with DHEAS. Hopefully my endocrinologist, if not someone in here before, will explain this issue.

*Day 22*
60 oxa – 5.096 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, Diarrhea, 100 mg Nimesulide, 500 mg Acetylcysteine Antibiotic, 600 mg Acetylcysteine, 25.000 iu Neomycin, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 23*
60 oxa – 4.003 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 24*
60 oxa – 3.650 Kcal – (Back)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 25*
60 oxa – 4.021 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 26*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 4.374 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 27*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 5.338 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Libido is Back, Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 28*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.071 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 4.221

4TH WEEK NOTES
Fortunately sinusitis, which I had between day 20/22, went away quickly.
At day 26 I added 3 gr of Tribulus Terrestris daily.
Since also from day 26 I am ingesting Mesterolone, my libido in back and I have very hard erections. Furthermore, I feel I can last longer while having sex.
My daily Kcalories intake was brought up to more than 4.000 (just checking how much fat I will store comparing to when I was eating/training the same, naturally).
This afternoon I underwent a full abdominal echography to see the overall situation and try to figure out if the pang I felt sometimes around my lower back was due to a kidney problem. The response was negative, all the organs are fine and was told it might be a problem related to training, probably a muscular micro-lesion less than 1mm, therefore not visible.
The persistent sore throat, reported at week 1, it is still there.[/QUOTE]

*Day 29*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 5.723 Kcal – (Shoulders, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Problems to fall asleep because I took the last tabs of Oxandrolone around midnight, 2 g Ketoprofen foam, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 30*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 4.790 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 2 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 31*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 5.999 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 32*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.461 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Diarrhea, 4 mg Loperamide, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 33*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 2.763 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 200 mg Nimesulide, 4 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 34*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 4.321 Kcal – (Chest & Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 35*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.973 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Diarrhea, 100 mg Nimesulide

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 4.432

5TH WEEK NOTES
So, in 19 days I took 6,6 lbs of lean mass (estimate) while fat increased a bit more but still under control (considering also I am not eating low glycemic index carbs at all) and water kept at the same value.
I would say so far, oxandrolone is showing its ability to increase the lean mass controlling either the fat and the water.
I am quite satisfied because I think I can easily go down to 12% bf retaining most of the lean mass acquired. I will act so the last ten days of the cycle. Till that time, I want to continue eating that much calories and proteins. Perhaps I can start eating more oats instead of pasta and rice.
At day 30 I started to ingest 10 mg more of Oxandrolone daily, for a total of 70 mg.
At day 35 I went back to 60 mg since I noticed no differences at all and the back pain on the lumbar right region came back again in a vigorous way. I am getting tired of this also because in spite of the echography I took lastly (which was fine), the pain is always there and seems to get worse after I ingest Oxandrolone. I had no possibility, as previously stated, to go taking blood analyses a few days ago, but I’ll go tomorrow morning. I want to see if the values related to the liver and the kidneys have stabilized or not. In negative case, it could be an explanation for the pain. Surely, I cannot keep taking nimesulide to get rid of the pain since it is very liver toxic too and gives diarrhea.
Strength keeps increasing.
The persistent sore throat, reported at week 1, it is finally gone.

*Day 36*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.640 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil
Blood Work: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=406359

*Day 37*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.511 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 100 mg Nimesulide

*Day 38*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.332 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 39*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.042 Kcal – (Cardio 30’)
Sides & Notes: 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 40*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.046 Kcal – (Cardio 30’)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 41*

80 oxa / 50 mes – 4.050 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Diarrhea, Dizziness late after dinner (several hours)

*Day 42*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 4.824 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Diarrhea, Dizziness late after dinner (just a few minutes)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.635

6TH WEEK NOTES
On day 41 I tried to raise the input from Oxandrolone by ingesting 20 mg more, for a total of 80 mg. The results were dizziness and confusion. The morning after I felt also some kind of hallucination and both yesterday and today the diarrhea came back. I decided not to push my luck and from day 42 I went back to 60 mg ed. After all, I had good results so far and see no reasons to screw everything up.
This week I ate a bit less to see if I could obtain a better definition but I also had the possibility to work-out only two days, so this made my effort fruitless.
Regarding my sperm, I realized it is more viscous than before and it seems also heavier.
Wondering if PCT is required since both LH and FSH are (and always were) within the normal ranges.

*Day 43*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 2.637 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Took 150 mg of Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid) by mistake

*Day 44*

60 oxa / 75 mes – 2.659 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 45*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 2.511 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil
+0.10 oxa

*Day 46*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 3.373 Kcal – (Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 47*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 2.754 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat/Ears/Head, 2 g Paracetamol

*Day 48*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 2.564 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat/Ears, 2 g Paracetamol

*Day 49*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 3.237 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat, 2 g Paracetamol

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 2.819

7TH WEEK NOTES
On day 43, I wrongly took 150 mg of Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid) at breakfast. I had an intestine discomfort, which lasted the entire morning.
On day 44, I raised the Mesterolone (Proviron ) daily intake of about 0,25 mg.
On day 45, I raised the Oxandrolone (Anavar) daily intake of about 0,10 mg.
I did not notice any improvement of any sort.
I figure out that strength increase ceased, even though I have not pushed to the limit to avoid injuries since I work-out in solitude.
This week I lowered my daily Kcalories intake because I realized I was putting on too much fat. I should be now back to 14% or less maybe, while by the end of last week I surely was above 15%.
In any case, in the next weekend I am going to check my stats again.
In the following and last week (8th), I am going to lower the daily intake of anavar down to 60 mg while starting from tomorrow morning I shall not ingest proviron anymore.
I need to see if mesterolone is related to the upsurge of my LH and FSH values. So, next Saturday I shall take the last blood work on cycle and accordingly, I set up the proper pct.

*Day 50*

60 oxa – 2.589 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Cough, 2 g Paracetamol, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 51*

60 oxa – 3.299 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Cough, 1 g Paracetamol
Sperm Analyses: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=407537

*Day 52*

60 oxa – 3.051 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Cough, 1 g Paracetamol

*Day 53*

60 oxa – 2.978 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 54*

60 oxa – 2.897 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 55*

60 oxa – 3.040 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 56*

70 oxa – 2.598 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil
Blood Wok: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=408288

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 2.921
Daily Average Bulking KCalories Intake (56 days): 3.159
Oxandrolone Daily Ingestion Average (56 days): 63 mg

8TH WEEK NOTES
Nothing particular to report on this final week, except I lowered the total daily intake of Kcalories to prepare myself for the following three weeks of PCT, where I am going to use 3.000 Kcalories on a daily average with 300/330 grams of protides.
Furthermore, after discontinuing the Mesterolone at day 49, the FSH dropped back while testosterone free doubled, +100%.

”BULKING” CONCLUSIONS
Being on my first cycle, I believe I had good results especially in strength.
After almost 20 years of martial arts as well as training in the gym plus other spare sport activities, I started this cycle with a bit of concern in relation to some elbows pangs I have felt in the last months. So, I never pushed to the limit really and always trained in solitude to avoid that.
Furthermore, I was not able to accomplish a ”perfect” diet regime throughout the cycle, as I wanted to, due to personal reasons which also led me to sleep no so goodly and enough.
Said that, I believe I could have achieved better results but I am satisfied anyway.

As reported during the cycle, Oxandrolone gave me some strong dizziness at 80 mg ed.
For the rest, except a total loss of appetite the first week or so and some diarrhea till I understood when to ingest the drug (after main meals), I would say I have gotten only benefits. The pang on my elbows disappeared after one week supporting what I read regarding the ability of Oxandrolone to cure problems related to ligaments and tendons, or in case to relieve the associated pain.
Another good ability was in regard of water percentage in the body. I ate a lot, compared to what I have burned especially in the first weeks, and I got just a little fat on and no water retention at all. This is good for martial artists or any other sport where the “not useful” weight is an issue.
Regarding vascularization, I cannot say I noticed any improvement because I did not mean to use this compound to get ripped, while I wanted more strength and see how much lean mass I could obtain. I started the cycle at 12,9% bf, went up to 14,6% bf and then back to 14% bf now, more or less. However, I tried to reduce the daily Kcalories at the end of the cycle but mostly helped me to reduce the fat I have put on, not to see any veins on my chest.

Overall Strength Increase: *35%* (estimate)

Squat (legs) 100 kg (220 lbs) *130* kg (286 lbs) *+30%*
One Arm Dumbbell Row (back) 30 kg (66 lbs) *44* kg (96,8 lbs) *+46,66%*
Bench Press with Dumbbells (chest) 30 kg each (66 lbs) *40* kg (88 lbs) *+33,33%*
Military Press with Dumbbells (shoulders) 24 kg each (52,8 lbs) *34* kg (74,8 lbs)* +41,66%*
Dumbbells Curls (biceps - seated) 24 kg each (52,8 lbs) *30* kg (66 lbs) *+25%*
Dumbbells Curls (triceps - lying down) 18 kg each (39,6 lbs) *24* kg (52,8 lbs) *+33,33%*

Lean Body Mass Acquisition (LBM): *9,043* kg (*19,89* lbs)
_by Whole Body Hologic QDR-4500W DXA Fan-Beam Scanner_

_(current-previous)/previous*100 = (+) increase% or (-) decrease%_

*Day 57*
*Day 1 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.555 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Flatulence, 20 mg Tadalafil

*Day 58*
*Day 2 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.556 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Increased size of testicles

*Day 59*
*Day 3 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.484 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 60*
*Day 4 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.596 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 61*
*Day 5 pct*

50 clo / 40 nol – 2.708 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Testicles back to normal

*Day 62*
*Day 6 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.383 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 63*
*Day 7 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.513 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.399

9TH WEEK NOTES
Strength kept being at the same level while muscles, right after I stopped the ingestion of Oxandrolone, started to ache for a few days.
Testicles increased the day after I started my pct, but after a few days came back to their normal size.
At day 5 (61) I ingested 40 mg of Tamoxifen Citrate to see if I could notice any difference but that day I could not eat as much as I had to, so I thwarted the attempt. In any case, having also used 50 mg of clomid, 20 mg of Nolva should be enough.
I plan to check my test levels plus LH and FSH by the end of the second week of PCT, to see the situation and plan the third week.
While, I shall get a full blood work to be compared to the one taken before the cycle, after my detox program (GSH), which will start three days after the end of PCT.
Regarding Tadalafil, I took it at day 1 to give it a try, in spite of during the entire cycle I had loss of libido but never problems to have sex normally. Anyway, I noticed no differences while my intestine became full of gas in about two hours. Fortunately, the morning after I was fine again.

*Day 58*
*Day 8 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.907 Kcal – (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 59*
*Day 9 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.583 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: 2 mg Loperamide

*Day 60*
*Day 10 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 4.345 Kcal – (Legs, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 61*
*Day 11 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.697 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 62*
*Day 12 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.510 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 63*
*Day 13 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.912 Kcal – (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 64*
*Day 14 pct*

20 nol – 3.093 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.721

10TH WEEK NOTES
Strength decreased a bit. If I could achieve a “x” weight for 10 reps, now I go up to 8 max.
On day 14 (64), I ceased ingesting clomid, so the rest of the final week will be only nolva 20 mg ed.

----------


## bjpennnn

any pics yet?

----------


## BJJ

> any pics yet?


I posted like 10 pics throughout the cycle.
I took them all off, though.

Want to see the improvement?
Be my guest:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=408811

It speaks more than any pic you could see!

----------


## bjpennnn

thats what i wanted. good shit.

----------


## BJJ

> thats what i wanted. *good shit*.


 :Hmmmm:  :Hmmmm:  :Hmmmm:

----------


## xero

BJJ thanks for the effort you have put into this. Extremely high quality contribution.

----------


## BJJ

> BJJ thanks for the effort you have put into this. Extremely high quality contribution.


Thank you

----------


## goose

One of the few great threads,I have seen in years,in this section.A rare treat.

Whats the highest dose you think is possible to run??

----------


## bjpennnn

> 


good stuff...? lol

----------


## im9boss

So i've read the ideal length to take var is 6 weeks. you went for 8 weeks, did you notice gains during 2 weeks? if you were to do a cycle of var again, would you do 6 or 8 weeks?
and how bout the dose, would u try starting at 70mg next time? or were you satisfied with 60mg

----------


## BJJ

> One of the few great threads,I have seen in years,in this section.A rare treat.
> 
> Whats the highest dose you think is possible to run??


Thank you, much appreciated.

Personally, I had some strong dizziness at 80 mg ed so I would no go over that amount but I have read some guys took 100 mg ed.
However, considering what Oxandrolone did to my HDL and liver values, I think is too risky to go over 80 mg ed.

----------


## BJJ

> So i've read the ideal length to take var is 6 weeks. you went for 8 weeks, did you notice gains during 2 weeks? if you were to do a cycle of var again, would you do 6 or 8 weeks?
> and how bout the dose, would u try starting at 70mg next time? or were you satisfied with 60mg


No, no improvement in the last two weeks.
My average intake was 63 mg ed, but if I had to run another var cycle, I would run 70 mg ed for 6 weeks.

That is the best way, IMO, to have the maximum possible effect from the drug keeping the sides under control.

----------


## cvictorg

Have you considered using this instead of injectable testosterone ?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2040234/#R9

Also - look at this study about problems with high doses of hgh

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/87/4/1654

I would be greatly interested in your opinion - combining the SARM S-4 with anavar and/or proviron might be an ideal oral only cycle

----------


## BJJ

> Have you considered using this instead of injectable testosterone ? *No, I did not consider it because of the vision problem associated and reported by some people.*
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2040234/#R9
> 
> Also - look at this study about problems with high doses of hgh
> 
> http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/87/4/1654 *thank you for sharing but what HGH has to do with my cycle?*
> 
> I would be greatly interested in your opinion - combining the SARM S-4 with anavar and/or proviron might be an ideal oral only cycle *I would gladly answer your question but my experience is with var and prov only. I never took SARM S-4 alone or in combination so how could I give you my opinion? Sorry.*


bolds

----------


## cvictorg

> Thank you, much appreciated.
> 
> Personally, I had some strong dizziness at 80 mg ed so I would no go over that amount but I have read some guys took 100 mg ed.
> However, considering what Oxandrolone did to my HDL and liver values, I think is too risky to go over 80 mg ed.


Have your liver and HDL values started to come back to normal levels?

----------


## BJJ

> Have your liver and HDL values started to come back to normal levels?


Have no idea yet I am still running my last week of pct.
Then, three days waiting and I shall start my GSH protocol.
Then, I am going to get a new, final and complete blood work.
So, still 16 days for the BW.

----------


## cvictorg

> Have no idea yet I am still running my last week of pct.
> Then, three days waiting and I shall start my GSH protocol.
> Then, I am going to get a new, final and complete blood work.
> So, still 16 days for the BW.


What is a GSH protocol??

----------


## BJJ

> What is a GSH protocol??


Here is where I asked for help and the great Merc. showed up:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=408832

----------


## BJJ

Tomorrow, I am going to start a ten days clen as follows:
60/60/80/80/100/100/100/100/60/60

My PCT will end on day 2 of clen so, after other 11 days I'll start my GSH protocol for ten days. Then, by the end of the month I take my final BW, 21 days after my pct and 28 days after my last clomid ingestion.

The data values should be, by then, accurate.

----------


## pwnflow

> Tomorrow, I am going to start a ten days clen as follows:
> 60/60/80/80/100/100/100/100/60/60
> 
> My PCT will end on day 2 of clen so, after other 11 days I'll start my GSH protocol for ten days. Then, by the end of the month I take my final BW, 21 days after my pct and 28 days after my last clomid ingestion.
> 
> The data values should be, by then, accurate.


What's clen? Doesn't don't fit clenbuterol so I doubt it's that.

----------


## BJJ

> What's clen? Doesn't don't fit clenbuterol so I doubt it's that.


Sure it's clenbuterol .
What's the deal? Why are you writing it does not fit?

----------


## pwnflow

> Sure it's clenbuterol .
> What's the deal? Why are you writing it does not fit?


Lol was sleepy last night so didn't see what I posted. Meant dosing doesn't fit but realized now you obviously meant mcg and not mg. Nvm.

Just noticed that you ceased clomid. Why so?

----------


## BJJ

> Lol was sleepy last night so didn't see what I posted. Meant dosing doesn't fit but realized now you obviously meant mcg and not mg. Nvm.
> 
> Just noticed that you ceased clomid. Why so?


My target is to finish the cycle having higher values of either FSH and LH, in comparison to those before the beginning of the cycle.
In order to do this, I added clomid to my pct which, in reality, was not needed since throughout my cycle both FSH and LH kept being within the normal ranges.
So, two weeks of clomid should be enough.

----------


## BJJ

*Day1*
60 oxa - 3.436 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day2*
60 oxa - 3.550 Kcal - (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Bursts of Heat

*Day3*
60 oxa - 3.199 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness

*Day4*
60 oxa - 3.340 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, 8 mg Loperamide

*Day5*
60 oxa - 2.799 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, Yellow Skin (left biceps & shoulder), 8 mg Loperamide, 25.000 iu Neomycin

*Day6*
60 oxa - 3.646 Kcal - (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Tiredness, Yellow Skin, 1 g Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day7*
60 oxa - 3.912 Kcal - (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Yellow Skin, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.411

1ST WEEK NOTES
The first week was very hard to go through. No will to eat at all and lots of problem to understand if the diarrhea was due from oxandrolone or liv.52; also I got a persistent sore throat.
The strength increase was considerable, especially on legs and shoulders.
As daily supplements throughout the cycle: (Multi Vitamins/Minerals 1 tb, Vitamin C/Ester 3 gr, EFA complex 6 gr, ALA 600 mg, LIV.52 2 tabs, CLA 4 gr, ZMA, Tribulus Terrestris 3 gr, Chromium Picolinate 400 mcg, Acetyl L-Carnitine 600 mg, Coenzyme Q10, Glutamine 35 gr, BCAA 20 gr, MT Gakic Hardcore 8 tbs (only before w/o), UN Animal Flex 1 pckt.

*Day 8*
60 oxa - 2.415 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite,Tiredness, 25.000 iu Neomycin, 8 mg Loperamide, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

*Day 9*
60 oxa - 3.400 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 10*
60 oxa - 2.760 Kcal - (Cardio 35’)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 11*
60 oxa - 4.208 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Oxandrolone kicked in

*Day 12*
60 oxa - 3.332 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 13*
60 oxa - 3.645 Kcal - (Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 14*
60 oxa - 3.976 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.392

2ND WEEK NOTES
At day 11 finally Anavar showed me its potentiality by improving my strength incredibly. Not only the power to lift was improved but also the reps needed to exhaust the muscles.
Furthermore, I am starving again especially after the work-outs.
The diarrhea was given by Liv.52. I solved the problem by taking only 1 tab in the morning.

*Day 15*
60 oxa – 3.698 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 16*
60 oxa – 3.645 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 17*
60 oxa – 3.591 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Diarrhea, 8 mg Loperamide

*Day 18*
60 oxa – 3.016 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region
Blood Work: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=404795

*Day 19*
60 oxa – 3.125 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 20*
60 oxa – 3.332 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, 400 mg Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day 21*
60 oxa – 3.129 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, Headache, 2 g Paracetamol, 500 mg Acetylcysteine Antibiotic, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.362

3RD WEEK NOTES
I understood that the best time to take oxandrolone is after the meals, not before or during, otherwise I get diarrhea and this apart from ingesting Liv.52.
Unfortunately, I got a bit sick yesterday and today is even worse. Every year I suffer from sinusitis which I hope to cure as fast as possible.
In regards of the results of blood analyses above reported, my bilirubin values decreased within the normal range, as expected. Oxandrolone seems "to cure" Gilberts's syndrome (which I have).
Of course, either LDL, HDL and Transaminase went up; as well as azotemia which was already a bit higher and surely it could not start declining during the cycle.
Strangely, creatinine stayed at the same level but this is good in relation with azotemia.
What I do not understand are the values related to LH, FSH and HGH compared with DHEAS. Hopefully my endocrinologist, if not someone in here before, will explain this issue.

*Day 22*
60 oxa – 5.096 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, Diarrhea, 100 mg Nimesulide, 500 mg Acetylcysteine Antibiotic, 600 mg Acetylcysteine, 25.000 iu Neomycin, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 23*
60 oxa – 4.003 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 24*
60 oxa – 3.650 Kcal – (Back)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 25*
60 oxa – 4.021 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 26*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 4.374 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 27*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 5.338 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Libido is Back, Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 28*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.071 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 4.221

4TH WEEK NOTES
Fortunately sinusitis, which I had between day 20/22, went away quickly.
At day 26 I added 3 gr of Tribulus Terrestris daily.
Since also from day 26 I am ingesting Mesterolone, my libido in back and I have very hard erections. Furthermore, I feel I can last longer while having sex.
My daily Kcalories intake was brought up to more than 4.000 (just checking how much fat I will store comparing to when I was eating/training the same, naturally).
This afternoon I underwent a full abdominal echography to see the overall situation and try to figure out if the pang I felt sometimes around my lower back was due to a kidney problem. The response was negative, all the organs are fine and was told it might be a problem related to training, probably a muscular micro-lesion less than 1mm, therefore not visible.
The persistent sore throat, reported at week 1, it is still there.[/QUOTE]

*Day 29*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 5.723 Kcal – (Shoulders, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Problems to fall asleep because I took the last tabs of Oxandrolone around midnight, 2 g Ketoprofen foam, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 30*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 4.790 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 2 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 31*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 5.999 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 32*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.461 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Diarrhea, 8 mg Loperamide, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 33*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 2.763 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 200 mg Nimesulide, 4 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 34*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 4.321 Kcal – (Chest & Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 35*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.973 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Diarrhea, 100 mg Nimesulide

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 4.432

5TH WEEK NOTES
So, in 19 days I took 6,6 lbs of lean mass (estimate) while fat increased a bit more but still under control (considering also I am not eating low glycemic index carbs at all) and water kept at the same value.
I would say so far, oxandrolone is showing its ability to increase the lean mass controlling either the fat and the water.
I am quite satisfied because I think I can easily go down to 12% bf retaining most of the lean mass acquired. I will act so the last ten days of the cycle. Till that time, I want to continue eating that much calories and proteins. Perhaps I can start eating more oats instead of pasta and rice.
At day 30 I started to ingest 10 mg more of Oxandrolone daily, for a total of 70 mg.
At day 35 I went back to 60 mg since I noticed no differences at all and the back pain on the lumbar right region came back again in a vigorous way. I am getting tired of this also because in spite of the echography I took lastly (which was fine), the pain is always there and seems to get worse after I ingest Oxandrolone. I had no possibility, as previously stated, to go taking blood analyses a few days ago, but I’ll go tomorrow morning. I want to see if the values related to the liver and the kidneys have stabilized or not. In negative case, it could be an explanation for the pain. Surely, I cannot keep taking nimesulide to get rid of the pain since it is very liver toxic too and gives diarrhea.
Strength keeps increasing.
The persistent sore throat, reported at week 1, it is finally gone.

*Day 36*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.640 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil
Blood Work: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=406359

*Day 37*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.511 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 100 mg Nimesulide

*Day 38*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.332 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 39*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.042 Kcal – (Cardio 30’)
Sides & Notes: 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 40*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.046 Kcal – (Cardio 30’)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 41*

80 oxa / 50 mes – 4.050 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Diarrhea, Dizziness late after dinner (several hours)

*Day 42*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 4.824 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Diarrhea, Dizziness late after dinner (just a few minutes)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.635

6TH WEEK NOTES
On day 41 I tried to raise the input from Oxandrolone by ingesting 20 mg more, for a total of 80 mg. The results were dizziness and confusion. The morning after I felt also some kind of hallucination and both yesterday and today the diarrhea came back. I decided not to push my luck and from day 42 I went back to 60 mg ed. After all, I had good results so far and see no reasons to screw everything up.
This week I ate a bit less to see if I could obtain a better definition but I also had the possibility to work-out only two days, so this made my effort fruitless.
Regarding my sperm, I realized it is more viscous than before and it seems also heavier.
Wondering if PCT is required since both LH and FSH are (and always were) within the normal ranges.

*Day 43*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 2.637 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Took 150 mg of Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid) by mistake

*Day 44*

60 oxa / 75 mes – 2.659 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 45*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 2.511 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil
+0.10 oxa

*Day 46*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 3.373 Kcal – (Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 47*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 2.754 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat/Ears/Head, 2 g Paracetamol

*Day 48*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 2.564 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat/Ears, 2 g Paracetamol

*Day 49*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 3.237 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat, 2 g Paracetamol

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 2.819

7TH WEEK NOTES
On day 43, I wrongly took 150 mg of Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid) at breakfast. I had an intestine discomfort, which lasted the entire morning.
On day 44, I raised the Mesterolone (Proviron ) daily intake of about 0,25 mg.
On day 45, I raised the Oxandrolone (Anavar) daily intake of about 0,10 mg.
I did not notice any improvement of any sort.
I figure out that strength increase ceased, even though I have not pushed to the limit to avoid injuries since I work-out in solitude.
This week I lowered my daily Kcalories intake because I realized I was putting on too much fat. I should be now back to 14% or less maybe, while by the end of last week I surely was above 15%.
In any case, in the next weekend I am going to check my stats again.
In the following and last week (8th), I am going to lower the daily intake of anavar down to 60 mg while starting from tomorrow morning I shall not ingest proviron anymore.
I need to see if mesterolone is related to the upsurge of my LH and FSH values. So, next Saturday I shall take the last blood work on cycle and accordingly, I set up the proper pct.

*Day 50*

60 oxa – 2.589 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Cough, 2 g Paracetamol, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 51*

60 oxa – 3.299 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Cough, 1 g Paracetamol
Sperm Analyses: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=407537

*Day 52*

60 oxa – 3.051 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Cough, 1 g Paracetamol

*Day 53*

60 oxa – 2.978 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 54*

60 oxa – 2.897 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 55*

60 oxa – 3.040 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 56*

70 oxa – 2.598 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil
Blood Wok: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=408288

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 2.921
Daily Average Bulking KCalories Intake (56 days): 3.159
Oxandrolone Daily Ingestion Average (56 days): 63 mg

8TH WEEK NOTES
Nothing particular to report on this final week, except I lowered the total daily intake of Kcalories to prepare myself for the following three weeks of PCT, where I am going to use 3.000 Kcalories on a daily average with 300/330 grams of protides.
Furthermore, after discontinuing the Mesterolone at day 49, the FSH dropped back while testosterone free doubled, +100%.

”BULKING” CONCLUSIONS
Being on my first cycle, I believe I had good results especially in strength.
After almost 20 years of martial arts as well as training in the gym plus other spare sport activities, I started this cycle with a bit of concern in relation to some elbows pangs I have felt in the last months. So, I never pushed to the limit really and always trained in solitude to avoid that.
Furthermore, I was not able to accomplish a ”perfect” diet regime throughout the cycle, as I wanted to, due to personal reasons which also led me to sleep no so goodly and enough.
Said that, I believe I could have achieved better results but I am satisfied anyway.

As reported during the cycle, Oxandrolone gave me some strong dizziness at 80 mg ed.
For the rest, except a total loss of appetite the first week or so and some diarrhea till I understood when to ingest the drug (after main meals), I would say I have gotten only benefits. The pang on my elbows disappeared after one week supporting what I read regarding the ability of Oxandrolone to cure problems related to ligaments and tendons, or in case to relieve the associated pain.
Another good ability was in regard of water percentage in the body. I ate a lot, compared to what I have burned especially in the first weeks, and I got just a little fat on and no water retention at all. This is good for martial artists or any other sport where the “not useful” weight is an issue.
Regarding vascularization, I cannot say I noticed any improvement because I did not mean to use this compound to get ripped, while I wanted more strength and see how much lean mass I could obtain. I started the cycle at 12,9% bf, went up to 14,6% bf and then back to 14% bf now, more or less. However, I tried to reduce the daily Kcalories at the end of the cycle but mostly helped me to reduce the fat I have put on, not to see any veins on my chest.

Overall Strength Increase: *35%* (estimate)

Squat (legs) 100 kg (220 lbs) *130* kg (286 lbs) *+30%*
One Arm Dumbbell Row (back) 30 kg (66 lbs) *44* kg (96,8 lbs) *+46,66%*
Bench Press with Dumbbells (chest) 30 kg each (66 lbs) *40* kg (88 lbs) *+33,33%*
Military Press with Dumbbells (shoulders) 24 kg each (52,8 lbs) *34* kg (74,8 lbs)* +41,66%*
Dumbbells Curls (biceps - seated) 24 kg each (52,8 lbs) *30* kg (66 lbs) *+25%*
Dumbbells Curls (triceps - lying down) 18 kg each (39,6 lbs) *24* kg (52,8 lbs) *+33,33%*

Lean Body Mass Acquisition (LBM): *9,043* kg (*19,89* lbs)
_by Whole Body Hologic QDR-4500W DXA Fan-Beam Scanner_

_(current-previous)/previous*100 = (+) increase% or (-) decrease%_

*Day 57*
*Day 1 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.555 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Flatulence, 20 mg Tadalafil

*Day 58*
*Day 2 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.556 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Increased size of testicles

*Day 59*
*Day 3 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.484 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 60*
*Day 4 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.596 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 61*
*Day 5 pct*

50 clo / 40 nol – 2.708 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Testicles back to normal

*Day 62*
*Day 6 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.383 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 63*
*Day 7 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.513 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.399

9TH WEEK NOTES
Strength kept being at the same level while muscles, right after I stopped the ingestion of Oxandrolone, started to ache for a few days.
Testicles increased the day after I started my pct, but after a few days came back to their normal size.
At day 5 (61) I ingested 40 mg of Tamoxifen Citrate to see if I could notice any difference but that day I could not eat as much as I had to, so I thwarted the attempt. In any case, having also used 50 mg of clomid, 20 mg of Nolva should be enough.
While, I shall get a full blood work to be compared to the one taken before the cycle, after my detox protocol (GSH), which will start three days after the end of PCT.
Regarding Tadalafil, I took it at day 1 to give it a try, in spite of during the entire cycle I had loss of libido but never problems to have sex normally. Anyway, I noticed no differences while my intestine became full of gas in about two hours. Fortunately, the morning after I was fine again.

*Day 58*
*Day 8 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.907 Kcal – (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 59*
*Day 9 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.583 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: 4 mg Loperamide

*Day 60*
*Day 10 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 4.345 Kcal – (Legs, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 61*
*Day 11 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.697 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 62*
*Day 12 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.510 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 63*
*Day 13 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.912 Kcal – (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 64*
*Day 14 pct*

20 nol – 3.093 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.721

10TH WEEK NOTES
Strength decreased a bit. If I could achieve a “x” weight for 10 reps, now I go up to 8 max.
On day 14 (64), I ceased ingesting clomid, so the rest of the final week will be only nolva 20 mg ed.

*Day 65*
*Day 15 pct*

20 nol – 3.373 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: 10 mg Vardenafil

*Day 66*
*Day 16 pct*

20 nol – 4.365 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 67*
*Day 17 pct*

20 nol – 3.566 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: 2 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 68*
*Day 18 pct*

20 nol – 3.366 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: 2 g Ketoprofen foam, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 69*
*Day 19 pct*

20 nol / 0,06 cln – 3.552 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 70*
*Day 20 pct*

20 nol / 0,06 cln – 3.607 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 71*
*Day 21 pct*

20 nol / 0,08 cln – 3.014 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.549
Daily Average PCT KCalories Intake (21 days): 3.556

11TH WEEK NOTES
On day 69 I started a ten days cyle of Clenbuterol (60/60/80/80/100/100/100/100/60/60). After that, 3 days off in order to start a 10 days GSH detox protocol. Then, I shall have my final and complete blood work done.

----------


## im9boss

first i wanted to thank you BJJ. i can't tell you how much useful info i got from this thread + with the help of you guys. the closer i get to starting my cycle, in preparing myself, i'm trying to get my supplements in order. I read the supps your taking, and included a few in mine. wanted to see what you guys think of the supps i have for:

*liver protection*
liv52(livercare), milk thistle, nac, r-ala, vitamin c & e

*cholesterol*
flax seed oil, niacin

*libido*
tribulus, avena sativa

am i missing anything? are any of these unecessary?

----------


## im9boss

does anyone know anything or have any input about using HCG on a var cycle to prevent balls shrinking, loss of libido and to help with the LH and FSH problem??

----------


## BJJ

> first i wanted to thank you BJJ. i can't tell you how much useful info i got from this thread + with the help of you guys. the closer i get to starting my cycle, in preparing myself, i'm trying to get my supplements in order. I read the supps your taking, and included a few in mine. wanted to see what you guys think of the supps i have for:
> 
> *liver protection*
> liv52(livercare), milk thistle, nac, r-ala, vitamin c & e
> 
> *cholesterol*
> flax seed oil, niacin
> 
> *libido*
> ...


Thanks, much appreciated.
Will you cycle with var only?

In any case, if you take flax seed oil, you need to ingest also EPA and DHA which you can find in wild salmon. FSO has only ALA in it.
Also, if your cycle has testosterone you do not need any tribulus... save it for PCT.
Furthermore, do not forget acetyl l-carnitine and coenzyme Q10 as well as chromium picolinate and one multi Vitamins/Minerals tab per day.

----------


## BJJ

> does anyone know anything or have any input about using HCG on a var cycle to prevent balls shrinking, loss of libido and to help with the LH and FSH problem??


For the loss of libido I used Mesterolone (Proviron ) which also helped me with LH and FSH.
I did not experience any testicles shrinkage.

----------


## im9boss

> Thanks, much appreciated.
> Will you cycle with var only?
> 
> In any case, if you take flax seed oil, you need to ingest also EPA and DHA which you can find in wild salmon. FSO has only ALA in it.
> Also, if your cycle has testosterone you do not need any tribulus... save it for PCT.
> Furthermore, do not forget acetyl l-carnitine and coenzyme Q10 as well as chromium picolinate and one multi Vitamins/Minerals tab per day.



yea im running var only. no testosterone or proviron because my number one fear is hair loss(runs in family, and yea all that good stuff), which is one of the many reasons i chose var.

and thanks for the tips on the other supplements. always learning something new here....

----------


## BJJ

Glutathione is a small molecule made up of three amino acids, which exists in almost every cell of the body. However, glutathione, must be generated within the cell from its precursors before it can work effectively in the body.

Glutathione (GSH) is a tripeptide. It contains an unusual peptide linkage between the amine group of cysteine and the carboxyl group of the glutamate side chain. Glutathione, an antioxidant, helps protect cells from reactive oxygen species such as free radicals and peroxides. Glutathione is nucleophilic at sulfur and attacks poisonous electrophilic conjugate acceptors.

Thiol groups are kept in a reduced state at a concentration of approximately ~5 mM in animal cells. In effect, glutathione reduces any disulfide bond formed within cytoplasmic proteins to cysteines by acting as an electron donor. In the process, glutathione is converted to its oxidized form glutathione disulfide (GSSG). Glutathione is found almost exclusively in its reduced form, since the enzyme that reverts it from its oxidized form, glutathione reductase, is constitutively active and inducible upon oxidative stress. In fact, the ratio of reduced glutathione to oxidized glutathione within cells is often used scientifically as a measure of cellular toxicity.

The presence of glutathione is required to maintain the normal function of the immune system. It is known to play a critical role in the multiplication of lymphocytes (the cells that mediate specific immunity) which occurs in the development of an effective immune response.

Furthermore, the cells of the immune system produce many oxiradicals as a result of their normal functioning, resulting in a need for higher concentrations of antioxidants than most cells. Glutathione plays a crucial role in fulfilling this requirement.

There are several ways a body can manufacture glutathione. It is true it takes 3 amino acids for the body to manufacture glutathione but our bodies can take food, turn the foods into the substance to manufacture the 3 needed amino acids needed to manufacture glutathione. This is also the natural method for a body to create glutathione. As an example, asparagus and watermelon will make glutathione.
With all of the breaking news regarding glutathione as an antioxidant as well as part of the reason for the development of autism, many supplements are suddenly jumping on the glutathione bandwagon.

One thing that has been overlooked by many still is the role of glutathione within the liver as well as the role of glutathione transporting a toxin to the liver. There is considerable more to glutathione than having it in the cells. When you need intracellular glutathione quickly, the best method and safest method is with a whey protein.

Increasing intracellular levels of glutathione is critical with drug withdrawal and it is vitally important that any supplement not cause a drug/supplement interaction.

_Additional Glutathione Information and Clinical Trials_

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

----------


## BJJ

*Day1*
60 oxa - 3.436 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day2*
60 oxa - 3.550 Kcal - (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Bursts of Heat

*Day3*
60 oxa - 3.199 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness

*Day4*
60 oxa - 3.340 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, 8 mg Loperamide

*Day5*
60 oxa - 2.799 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, Yellow Skin (left biceps & shoulder), 8 mg Loperamide, 25.000 iu Neomycin

*Day6*
60 oxa - 3.646 Kcal - (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Tiredness, Yellow Skin, 1 g Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day7*
60 oxa - 3.912 Kcal - (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Yellow Skin, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.411

1ST WEEK NOTES
The first week was very hard to go through. No will to eat at all and lots of problem to understand if the diarrhea was due from oxandrolone or liv.52; also I got a persistent sore throat.
The strength increase was considerable, especially on legs and shoulders.
As daily supplements throughout the cycle: (Multi Vitamins/Minerals 1 tb, Vitamin C/Ester 3 gr, EFA complex 6 gr, ALA 600 mg, LIV.52 2 tabs, CLA 4 gr, ZMA, Tribulus Terrestris 3 gr, Chromium Picolinate 400 mcg, Acetyl L-Carnitine 600 mg, Coenzyme Q10, Glutamine 35 gr, BCAA 20 gr, MT Gakic Hardcore 8 tbs (only before w/o), UN Animal Flex 1 pckt.

*Day 8*
60 oxa - 2.415 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite,Tiredness, 25.000 iu Neomycin, 8 mg Loperamide, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

*Day 9*
60 oxa - 3.400 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 10*
60 oxa - 2.760 Kcal - (Cardio 35’)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 11*
60 oxa - 4.208 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Oxandrolone kicked in

*Day 12*
60 oxa - 3.332 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 13*
60 oxa - 3.645 Kcal - (Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 14*
60 oxa - 3.976 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.392

2ND WEEK NOTES
At day 11 finally Anavar showed me its potentiality by improving my strength incredibly. Not only the power to lift was improved but also the reps needed to exhaust the muscles.
Furthermore, I am starving again especially after the work-outs.
The diarrhea was given by Liv.52. I solved the problem by taking only 1 tab in the morning.

*Day 15*
60 oxa – 3.698 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 16*
60 oxa – 3.645 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 17*
60 oxa – 3.591 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Diarrhea, 8 mg Loperamide

*Day 18*
60 oxa – 3.016 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region
Blood Work: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=404795

*Day 19*
60 oxa – 3.125 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 20*
60 oxa – 3.332 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, 400 mg Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day 21*
60 oxa – 3.129 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, Headache, 2 g Paracetamol, 500 mg Acetylcysteine Antibiotic, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.362

3RD WEEK NOTES
I understood that the best time to take oxandrolone is after the meals, not before or during, otherwise I get diarrhea and this apart from ingesting Liv.52.
Unfortunately, I got a bit sick yesterday and today is even worse. Every year I suffer from sinusitis which I hope to cure as fast as possible.
In regards of the results of blood analyses above reported, my bilirubin values decreased within the normal range, as expected. Oxandrolone seems "to cure" Gilberts's syndrome (which I have).
Of course, either LDL, HDL and Transaminase went up; as well as azotemia which was already a bit higher and surely it could not start declining during the cycle.
Strangely, creatinine stayed at the same level but this is good in relation with azotemia.
What I do not understand are the values related to LH, FSH and HGH compared with DHEAS. Hopefully my endocrinologist, if not someone in here before, will explain this issue.

*Day 22*
60 oxa – 5.096 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, Diarrhea, 100 mg Nimesulide, 500 mg Acetylcysteine Antibiotic, 600 mg Acetylcysteine, 25.000 iu Neomycin, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 23*
60 oxa – 4.003 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 24*
60 oxa – 3.650 Kcal – (Back)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 25*
60 oxa – 4.021 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 26*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 4.374 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 27*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 5.338 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Libido is Back, Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 28*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.071 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 4.221

4TH WEEK NOTES
Fortunately sinusitis, which I had between day 20/22, went away quickly.
At day 26 I added 3 gr of Tribulus Terrestris daily.
Since also from day 26 I am ingesting Mesterolone, my libido in back and I have very hard erections. Furthermore, I feel I can last longer while having sex.
My daily Kcalories intake was brought up to more than 4.000 (just checking how much fat I will store comparing to when I was eating/training the same, naturally).
This afternoon I underwent a full abdominal echography to see the overall situation and try to figure out if the pang I felt sometimes around my lower back was due to a kidney problem. The response was negative, all the organs are fine and was told it might be a problem related to training, probably a muscular micro-lesion less than 1mm, therefore not visible.
The persistent sore throat, reported at week 1, it is still there.[/QUOTE]

*Day 29*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 5.723 Kcal – (Shoulders, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Problems to fall asleep because I took the last tabs of Oxandrolone around midnight, 2 g Ketoprofen foam, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 30*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 4.790 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 2 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 31*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 5.999 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 32*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.461 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Diarrhea, 8 mg Loperamide, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 33*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 2.763 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 200 mg Nimesulide, 4 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 34*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 4.321 Kcal – (Chest & Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 35*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.973 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Diarrhea, 100 mg Nimesulide

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 4.432

5TH WEEK NOTES
So, in 19 days I took 6,6 lbs of lean mass (estimate) while fat increased a bit more but still under control (considering also I am not eating low glycemic index carbs at all) and water kept at the same value.
I would say so far, oxandrolone is showing its ability to increase the lean mass controlling either the fat and the water.
I am quite satisfied because I think I can easily go down to 12% bf retaining most of the lean mass acquired. I will act so the last ten days of the cycle. Till that time, I want to continue eating that much calories and proteins. Perhaps I can start eating more oats instead of pasta and rice.
At day 30 I started to ingest 10 mg more of Oxandrolone daily, for a total of 70 mg.
At day 35 I went back to 60 mg since I noticed no differences at all and the back pain on the lumbar right region came back again in a vigorous way. I am getting tired of this also because in spite of the echography I took lastly (which was fine), the pain is always there and seems to get worse after I ingest Oxandrolone. I had no possibility, as previously stated, to go taking blood analyses a few days ago, but I’ll go tomorrow morning. I want to see if the values related to the liver and the kidneys have stabilized or not. In negative case, it could be an explanation for the pain. Surely, I cannot keep taking nimesulide to get rid of the pain since it is very liver toxic too and gives diarrhea.
Strength keeps increasing.
The persistent sore throat, reported at week 1, it is finally gone.

*Day 36*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.640 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil
Blood Work: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=406359

*Day 37*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.511 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 100 mg Nimesulide

*Day 38*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.332 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 39*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.042 Kcal – (Cardio 30’)
Sides & Notes: 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 40*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.046 Kcal – (Cardio 30’)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 41*

80 oxa / 50 mes – 4.050 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Diarrhea, Dizziness late after dinner (several hours)

*Day 42*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 4.824 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Diarrhea, Dizziness late after dinner (just a few minutes)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.635

6TH WEEK NOTES
On day 41 I tried to raise the input from Oxandrolone by ingesting 20 mg more, for a total of 80 mg. The results were dizziness and confusion. The morning after I felt also some kind of hallucination and both yesterday and today the diarrhea came back. I decided not to push my luck and from day 42 I went back to 60 mg ed. After all, I had good results so far and see no reasons to screw everything up.
This week I ate a bit less to see if I could obtain a better definition but I also had the possibility to work-out only two days, so this made my effort fruitless.
Regarding my sperm, I realized it is more viscous than before and it seems also heavier.
Wondering if PCT is required since both LH and FSH are (and always were) within the normal ranges.

*Day 43*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 2.637 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Took 150 mg of Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid) by mistake

*Day 44*

60 oxa / 75 mes – 2.659 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 45*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 2.511 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil
+0.10 oxa

*Day 46*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 3.373 Kcal – (Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 47*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 2.754 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat/Ears/Head, 2 g Paracetamol

*Day 48*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 2.564 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat/Ears, 2 g Paracetamol

*Day 49*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 3.237 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat, 2 g Paracetamol

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 2.819

7TH WEEK NOTES
On day 43, I wrongly took 150 mg of Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid) at breakfast. I had an intestine discomfort, which lasted the entire morning.
On day 44, I raised the Mesterolone (Proviron ) daily intake of about 0,25 mg.
On day 45, I raised the Oxandrolone (Anavar) daily intake of about 0,10 mg.
I did not notice any improvement of any sort.
I figure out that strength increase ceased, even though I have not pushed to the limit to avoid injuries since I work-out in solitude.
This week I lowered my daily Kcalories intake because I realized I was putting on too much fat. I should be now back to 14% or less maybe, while by the end of last week I surely was above 15%.
In any case, in the next weekend I am going to check my stats again.
In the following and last week (8th), I am going to lower the daily intake of anavar down to 60 mg while starting from tomorrow morning I shall not ingest proviron anymore.
I need to see if mesterolone is related to the upsurge of my LH and FSH values. So, next Saturday I shall take the last blood work on cycle and accordingly, I set up the proper pct.

*Day 50*

60 oxa – 2.589 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Cough, 2 g Paracetamol, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 51*

60 oxa – 3.299 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Cough, 1 g Paracetamol
Sperm Analyses: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=407537

*Day 52*

60 oxa – 3.051 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Cough, 1 g Paracetamol

*Day 53*

60 oxa – 2.978 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 54*

60 oxa – 2.897 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 55*

60 oxa – 3.040 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 56*

70 oxa – 2.598 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil
Blood Wok: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=408288

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 2.921
Daily Average Bulking KCalories Intake (56 days): 3.159
Oxandrolone Daily Ingestion Average (56 days): 63 mg

8TH WEEK NOTES
Nothing particular to report on this final week, except I lowered the total daily intake of Kcalories to prepare myself for the following three weeks of PCT, where I am going to use 3.000 Kcalories on a daily average with 300/330 grams of protides.
Furthermore, after discontinuing the Mesterolone at day 49, the FSH dropped back while testosterone free doubled, +100%.

”BULKING” CONCLUSIONS
Being on my first cycle, I believe I had good results especially in strength.
After almost 20 years of martial arts as well as training in the gym plus other spare sport activities, I started this cycle with a bit of concern in relation to some elbows pangs I have felt in the last months. So, I never pushed to the limit really and always trained in solitude to avoid that.
Furthermore, I was not able to accomplish a ”perfect” diet regime throughout the cycle, as I wanted to, due to personal reasons which also led me to sleep no so goodly and enough.
Said that, I believe I could have achieved better results but I am satisfied anyway.

As reported during the cycle, Oxandrolone gave me some strong dizziness at 80 mg ed.
For the rest, except a total loss of appetite the first week or so and some diarrhea till I understood when to ingest the drug (after main meals), I would say I have gotten only benefits. The pang on my elbows disappeared after one week supporting what I read regarding the ability of Oxandrolone to cure problems related to ligaments and tendons, or in case to relieve the associated pain.
Another good ability was in regard of water percentage in the body. I ate a lot, compared to what I have burned especially in the first weeks, and I got just a little fat on and no water retention at all. This is good for martial artists or any other sport where the “not useful” weight is an issue.
Regarding vascularization, I cannot say I noticed any improvement because I did not mean to use this compound to get ripped, while I wanted more strength and see how much lean mass I could obtain. I started the cycle at 12,9% bf, went up to 14,6% bf and then back to 14% bf now, more or less. However, I tried to reduce the daily Kcalories at the end of the cycle but mostly helped me to reduce the fat I have put on, not to see any veins on my chest.

Overall Strength Increase: *35%* (estimate)

Squat (legs) 100 kg (220 lbs) *130* kg (286 lbs) *+30%*
One Arm Dumbbell Row (back) 30 kg (66 lbs) *44* kg (96,8 lbs) *+46,66%*
Bench Press with Dumbbells (chest) 30 kg each (66 lbs) *40* kg (88 lbs) *+33,33%*
Military Press with Dumbbells (shoulders) 24 kg each (52,8 lbs) *34* kg (74,8 lbs)* +41,66%*
Dumbbells Curls (biceps - seated) 24 kg each (52,8 lbs) *30* kg (66 lbs) *+25%*
Dumbbells Curls (triceps - lying down) 18 kg each (39,6 lbs) *24* kg (52,8 lbs) *+33,33%*

Lean Body Mass Acquisition (LBM): *9,043* kg (*19,89* lbs)
_by Whole Body Hologic QDR-4500W DXA Fan-Beam Scanner_

_(current-previous)/previous*100 = (+) increase% or (-) decrease%_

*Day 57*
*Day 1 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.555 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Flatulence, 20 mg Tadalafil

*Day 58*
*Day 2 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.556 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Increased size of testicles

*Day 59*
*Day 3 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.484 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 60*
*Day 4 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.596 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 61*
*Day 5 pct*

50 clo / 40 nol – 2.708 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Testicles back to normal

*Day 62*
*Day 6 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.383 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 63*
*Day 7 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.513 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.399

9TH WEEK NOTES
Strength kept being at the same level while muscles, right after I stopped the ingestion of Oxandrolone, started to ache for a few days.
Testicles increased the day after I started my pct, but after a few days came back to their normal size.
At day 5 (61) I ingested 40 mg of Tamoxifen Citrate to see if I could notice any difference but that day I could not eat as much as I had to, so I thwarted the attempt. In any case, having also used 50 mg of clomid, 20 mg of Nolva should be enough.
While, I shall get a full blood work to be compared to the one taken before the cycle, after my detox protocol (GSH), which will start three days after the end of PCT.
Regarding Tadalafil, I took it at day 1 to give it a try, in spite of during the entire cycle I had loss of libido but never problems to have sex normally. Anyway, I noticed no differences while my intestine became full of gas in about two hours. Fortunately, the morning after I was fine again.

*Day 58*
*Day 8 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.907 Kcal – (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 59*
*Day 9 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.583 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: 4 mg Loperamide

*Day 60*
*Day 10 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 4.345 Kcal – (Legs, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 61*
*Day 11 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.697 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 62*
*Day 12 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.510 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 63*
*Day 13 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.912 Kcal – (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 64*
*Day 14 pct*

20 nol – 3.093 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.721

10TH WEEK NOTES
Strength decreased a bit. If I could achieve a “x” weight for 10 reps, now I go up to 8 max.
On day 14 (64), I ceased ingesting clomid, so the rest of the final week will be only nolva 20 mg ed.

*Day 65*
*Day 15 pct*

20 nol – 3.373 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: 10 mg Vardenafil

*Day 66*
*Day 16 pct*

20 nol – 4.365 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 67*
*Day 17 pct*

20 nol – 3.566 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: 2 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 68*
*Day 18 pct*

20 nol – 3.366 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: 2 g Ketoprofen foam, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 69*
*Day 19 pct*

20 nol / 0,06 cln – 3.552 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 70*
*Day 20 pct*

20 nol / 0,06 cln – 3.607 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 71*
*Day 21 pct*

20 nol / 0,08 cln – 3.014 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.549
Daily Average PCT KCalories Intake (21 days): 3.556

11TH WEEK NOTES
On day 69 I started a ten days cyle of Clenbuterol (60/60/80/80/100/100/100/100/60/60). After that, 3 days off in order to start a 10 days GSH detox protocol. Then, I shall have my final and complete blood work done.

*Day 72*
*Day 22 pct*

0,08 cln – 2.700 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 73*
*Day 23 pct*

0,10 cln – 3.416 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 74*
*Day 24 pct*

0,10 cln – 2.907 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 75*
*Day 25 pct*

0,10 cln – 3.038 Kcal – (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: 8 mg Loperamide, 2 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 76*
*Day 26 pct*

0,10 cln – 3.094 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: 2 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 77*
*Day 27 pct*

nil – 3.324 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: 3 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 78*
*Day 28 pct*

0,06 cln – 3.233 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.101

12TH WEEK NOTES
Nothing to report.

----------


## pwnflow

> *Day1*
> 
> 11TH WEEK NOTES
> After that, 3 days off in order to start a 10 days GSH detox protocol. Then, I shall have my final and complete blood work done.


Looking forward to this. Good Luck.

----------


## BJJ

> Looking forward to this. Good Luck.


I am also curious to see if my values are back to normal and if my GS is really disappeared.

----------


## BJJ

Furthermore, I will have the opportunity to experiment with ed injections in regards of my next test prop cycle.

----------


## pwnflow

> Furthermore, I will have the opportunity to experiment with ed injections in regards of my next test prop cycle.


Wow you choose prop as first inj cycle? Brave! No way I can stick needle ED on the first cycle! Have you planned out how long you will take it and the PCT?

On side topic, Why did you choose oxanabilic as your brand of anavar ?

----------


## BJJ

> Wow you choose prop as first inj cycle? Brave! No way I can stick needle ED on the first cycle! Have you planned out how long you will take it and the PCT?
> 
> On side topic, Why did you choose oxanabilic as your brand of anavar?


Surely 8 weeks, maybe 10.
For PCT I was thinking about clomid and instead of Nolvadex to get Toremifene.
Yet, I do not know if I want to run HCG during the cycle.

I have chosen Oxanabolic over others because I have read good feedbacks on the factory which makes it.

----------


## BJJ

*Toremifene is a novel SERM - Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (anti estrogen) that is supposedly more powerful than Nolvadex and may have less side effects than other anti estrogens. It also lowers bad cholesterol (LDL) and increase good cholesterol (HDL).*

Primarily used to treat breast cancer in post-menopausal women, it has a great a potential to be used in men as well for various medical conditions.
Since Toremifene has been in market but much less time than Tamoxifen it has fewer medical studies. However due to similarities in action with other SERMs like Nolvadex though being more potent it has probably even greater potential to treat the same conditions doctors use Nolvadex to treat.

_These are extracts from research and studies conducted by various groups and published in various places. These extracts are for informational purposes only. They should not serve as a medical advice and do not suggest any self-medicating._
_This research suggests Toremifene as an alternative to Nolvadex. The Toremifene group had a greater response than the Tamoxifen group did. It also demonstrates the Toremifene group had lower incidence of undesirable effects.
Phase III randomized trial of toremifene vs tamoxifen in hormonodependant advanced breast cancer._

*EXTRACT*
Efficacy and safety of toremifene (TOR) 60 mgs/dayly/o.r. was compared with tamoxifen (TAM) 40 mgs/dayly/o.r. in a group of postmenopausal women with advanced breast cancer, without previous systemic therapy for advanced breast cancer. MATERIAL AND METHODS: The study was a prospective double-blind randomized trial. All treated patients presented with positive estrogen receptors. Main end points were response rates, toxicity profile analysis, time to progression and survival. WHO and ECOG criteria were employed for response evaluation while toxicity was assesed according to WHO guidelines. Curves were constructed by means of Kaplan-Meier methodology and were compared by means of log-rank test. RESULTS: From January 1996 to January 1999 a total of 217 patients were included in the study (106 in the TOR branch and 111 in the TAM arm). Both groups of patients were homogeneous regarding the main prognostic factors. A response rate of 64% (68/106) was observed in the TOR group as compared with a 52% (58/111) in the TAM group. Median times to progression and overall survival were not significantly different. A lower incidence of undesirable effects was apreciated in the TOR arm. CONCLUSIONS: Our data suggest that TOREMIFENE (FARESTON) is an efficient and well-tolerated agent for the therapy of postmenopausal women with hormonal positive receptors advanced breast cancer, and must be considered an alternative to TAMOXIFEN (NOLVADEX) as first line therapy for ER+ advanced breast cancer patients and as well as an adjuvant treatment.

Toremifene (Fareston) lowered LDL (bad Cholesterol) and increased HDL (good cholesterol) when given to men receiving androgen-deprivation therapy for prostate cancer.
Study published in Journal of Clinical Oncology, April 2008
Massachusetts General Hospital Cancer Center

*EXTRACT*
We evaluated the effects of toremifene, a selective estrogen-receptor modulator, on fasting serum lipid levels in men receiving ADT for prostate cancer. PATIENTS AND METHODS: In an ongoing, multicenter, double-blind, placebo-controlled phase III fracture-prevention study, 1,389 men receiving ADT for prostate cancer were randomly assigned to receive toremifene (80 mg/d) or placebo. In this interim analysis of 188 patients, changes in fasting serum lipids from baseline to month 12 were compared between the placebo and toremifene groups. RESULTS: Changes in serum lipids differed significantly between the groups. Mean (+/- SE) total cholesterol decreased by 1.0% +/- 1.7% from baseline to month 12 in the placebo group and decreased by 8.1% +/- 1.4% in the toremifene group (P = .001 for between group comparison). Low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol increased by 0.8% +/- 2.5% in the placebo group and decreased by 8.2% +/- 2.5% in the toremifene group (P = .003). In contrast, high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol decreased by 4.9% +/- 1.2% in the placebo group and increased by 0.5% +/- 2.2% in the toremifene group (P = .018). Triglycerides increased by 6.9% +/- 4.2% in the placebo group and decreased by 13.2% +/- 3.6% in the toremifene group (P = .003). CONCLUSION: Toremifene significantly decreased total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, and triglycerides, and increased HDL cholesterol in men receiving ADT for prostate cancer.

Toremifene increases Testosterone , FSH, sperm count and quality in men with fertility problems.
Study published in Fertil Steril, October 2007
Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, Thessaloniki, Greece.

*EXTRACT*
To evaluate whether toremifene, a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM), has a beneficiary effect on all three main sperm parameters. DESIGN: Prospective interventional clinical study. SETTING: University hospital. PATIENT(S): One-hundred subfertile men with idiopathic oligozospermia. INTERVENTION(S): Toremifene (60 mg daily) was administered to all men for 3 months. At baseline and at the end of each month, serum concentrations of follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), testosterone, inhibin B, and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) were measured. At baseline and at the end, semen analysis was performed and sperm concentration, spermatozoal motility and normal sperm forms were determined. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE(S): Gonadotropin, testosterone, inhibin-B levels, total sperm count, sperm morphology and motility. RESULT(S): Toremifene administration resulted in a significant increase in FSH, testosterone, SHBG, and inhibin B levels, as well as in sperm concentration, percentage motility and normal sperm forms. Twenty-two men's partners achieved pregnancy within 2 months of the end of treatment. At the end of the third month, serum FSH levels were significantly higher in the men whose partners did not achieve pregnancy, and total sperm count and normal sperm forms were significantly lower compared with the group of men whose partners achieved pregnancy. CONCLUSION(S): Toremifene administration for a period of 3 months in men with idiopathic oligozoospermia is associated with significant improvements of sperm count, motility, and morphology, mediated by increased gonadotropin secretion and possibly a direct beneficial effect of toremifene on the testes. The above findings are also indicative of a better testicular exocrine (improved sperm parameters) response to treatment in men whose partners achieved pregnancy compared with those who did not. Further randomized, placebo-controlled trials should be conducted to determine whether this particular selective estrogen receptor modulator can be useful as an initial approach in men with oligozoospermia.

Toremifene (Fareston) increases bone mineral density in men receiving androgen deprivation therapy for prostate cancer.
Study published in Journal of Urology, January 2008
Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston

*EXTRACT*
We evaluated the effects of toremifene on bone mineral density, a surrogate for fracture risk, in men receiving androgen deprivation therapy for prostate cancer. MATERIALS AND METHODS: In an ongoing, multicenter, phase 3 fracture prevention study 1,392 men 50 years or older with prostate cancer receiving androgen deprivation therapy were randomized to 80 mg toremifene per day or placebo. Bone mineral density of the lumbar spine, total hip and femoral neck was assessed using dual energy x-ray absorptiometry. In this planned interim analysis of the first 197 subjects we compared bone mineral density changes from baseline to month 12 between the placebo and toremifene groups. RESULTS: Compared with the placebo group men in the toremifene group had significant increases in bone mineral density at each evaluated skeletal site. Lumbar spine bone mineral density decreased 0.7% in the placebo group and increased 1.6% in the toremifene group (between group comparison p <0.001). Total hip bone mineral density decreased 1.3% in the placebo group and increased 0.7% in the toremifene group (p = 0.001). Femoral neck bone mineral density decreased 1.3% in the placebo group and increased 0.2% in the toremifene group (p = 0.009). Between group differences in the change in bone mineral density from baseline to month 12 were 2.3%, 2.0% and 1.5% for the lumbar spine, total hip and femoral neck, respectively. CONCLUSIONS: Toremifene significantly increased hip and spine bone mineral density in men receiving androgen deprivation therapy for prostate cancer. The effect of toremifene on the fracture risk is being assessed in the ongoing randomized, controlled trial.

Toremifene helps in prevention of prostate cancer in men with high grade prostatic intraepithelial neoplasia
Study published in Journal of Urology, September 2006

*EXTRACT*
A randomized, double-blind, dose finding, placebo controlled, parallel group clinical study was done to determine the incidence of prostate cancer in men with high grade prostatic intraepithelial neoplasia treated with toremifene. MATERIALS AND METHODS: A total of 514 patients with high grade prostatic intraepithelial neoplasia and no evidence of prostate cancer on screening biopsy were randomized to 20, 40 or 60 mg toremifene, or placebo daily for 12 months. Patients underwent re-biopsy at 6 and 12 months. RESULTS: The number of evaluable patients, that is those with 1 on study biopsy who were compliant, was 447. The cumulative risk of prostate cancer was decreased in patients on 20 mg toremifene compared with placebo (24.4% vs 31.2%, p <0.05). The annualized rate of prevention was 6.8 cancers per 100 men treated. In patients with no biopsy evidence of cancer at baseline and 6 months, the 12-month incidence of prostate cancer was decreased by 48.2% with 20 mg toremifene compared with placebo (9.1% vs 17.4%, p <0.05). The 20 mg dose was most effective but cumulative and 12-month incidences of prostate cancer were lower for each toremifene dose vs placebo with a cumulative risk of 29.2% and 28.1%, and a 12-month incidence of 14.3% and 13.0% for 40 and 60 mg, respectively. Gleason scores were similar across treatments. The overall incidence of drug related and serious adverse events did not differ between any of the toremifene groups and the placebo group. CONCLUSIONS: Toremifene decreased the incidence of prostate cancer by 1 year and had a tolerability profile comparable to that of placebo in a high risk population.

----------


## pwnflow

> Surely 8 weeks, maybe 10.
> For PCT I was thinking about clomid and instead of Nolvadex to get Toremifene.
> Yet, I do not know if I want to run HCG during the cycle.
> 
> I have chosen Oxanabolic over others because I have read good feedbacks on the factory which makes it.


Why not use nolva and fareston and drop the clomid. Nolva and clomid anyways work the same way by enhancing the release of gonadotropins so it's better to opt for novla over clomid as clomid is know for its potent possible side effects on vision.

----------


## BJJ

> Why not use nolva and fareston and drop the clomid. Nolva and clomid anyways work the same way by enhancing the release of gonadotropins so it's better to opt for novla over clomid as clomid is know for its potent possible side effects on vision.


The following, thanks to Swifto, should answer your question:




> Drug Saf. 2001;24(14):1039-53.
> 
> *Comparative tolerability of first-generation selective estrogen receptor modulators in breast cancer treatment and prevention.*
> Curtis MG.
> 
> Department of Obstetrics/Gynecology, University of Texas at Houston, Houston, Texas 77026, USA. [email protected]
> 
> In general, the selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) currently indicated for the treatment and prevention of breast cancer, i.e. tamoxifen and toremifene, are fairly well tolerated. *However, tamoxifen has been shown to induce hepatocellular carcinomas in rats, but not in humans, and can increase the risk of endometrial cancer in humans by two to three times. Other potentially serious adverse effects which have been associated with tamoxifen and toremifene therapy include vasomotor symptoms, an increased risk of venous thromboembolic events, and an increased incidence of cataracts and ocular toxicity, fatty liver, and nonmalignant hepatic and uterine changes. In addition, long term tamoxifen use almost always results in resistance to the drug and, indeed, has actually been shown to promote tumour proliferation in human breast cancer cells.* Both tamoxifen and toremifene display drug interactions with a variety of drug classes. The adverse events associated with these compounds have raised significant concerns regarding their widespread use for the treatment and prevention of breast cancer. In addition, because of the weakness and scarcity of the data on toremifene, any conclusions about its tolerability remain tentative until outcomes of ongoing clinical trials in the adjuvant setting are known. A third SERM, raloxifene, is the focus of several large randomised trials examining its efficacy in the prevention of breast cancer. At present, each potential adverse event needs to be weighed against potential benefits in the decision to undergo SERM treatment. An array of therapies is currently available for patients with breast cancer and women at increased risk of disease; the risk-to-benefit ratio for each agent should be carefully examined in determining the most advantageous regimen.
> 
> ...





> Toremifene on lipid profiles:
> 
> J Clin Oncol. 2008 Apr 10;26(11):1824-9.
> 
> *Toremifene improves lipid profiles in men receiving androgen-deprivation therapy for prostate cancer: interim analysis of a multicenter phase III study.*
> Smith MR, Malkowicz SB, Chu F, Forrest J, Sieber P, Barnette KG, Rodriquez D, Steiner MS.
> 
> Massachusetts General Hospital Cancer Center, Yawkey 7038, 55 Fruit St, Boston, MA 02114, USA. [email protected]
> 
> ...





> Toremifene on bone mineral density:
> 
> J Urol. 2008 Jan;179(1):152-5. Epub 2007 Nov 14.
> 
> *Toremifene increases bone mineral density in men receiving androgen deprivation therapy for prostate cancer: interim analysis of a multicenter phase 3 clinical study.*
> 
> Smith MR, Malkowicz SB, Chu F, Forrest J, Price D, Sieber P, Barnette KG, Rodriguez D, Steiner MS.
> 
> Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, Massachusetts 02114, USA. [email protected]
> ...





> Toremifene, it seems, will also be a valuable tool for fighting prostate cancer in males. As is Tamoxifen. 
> 
> Estrogen is VERY important when causing prostate problems in males, so it DHT. A SERM that increase expression of ERbeta and reduces ERalpha is prefered at fighting tumor growth. Tamoxifen does this and Toremifene may also exert this effect on the ER.

----------


## BJJ

> Just cuious are you running HG var or UGL?





> That is a debatable question since some vets told me HG while some others UGL.
> The web site of the company states HG but "to write is easy".


I exhumed a contact I used to have in Beijing.
That person told me the factory is Human Grade Pharmaceuticals.

----------


## BJJ

Started my GSH protocol.
I injected 600 mg of Glutathione intramuscular (right shoulder), even though I could have inject it also into a vein.
It was very painful and 600 mg are a lot all in once, so I guess it will be easier with test.

----------


## ReX357

This needs to be stickied somewhere appropriate. Or put in an experiment forum or something.

This is great. 19lbs on anavar .

----------


## BJJ

> This needs to be stickied somewhere appropriate. Or put in an experiment forum or something.
> 
> This is great. 19lbs on anavar.


Yep!
... and eating correctly I am able to hold either the weight and the strength.

----------


## BJJ

Third day and tried the right quadriceps.
I felt nothing comparing to the shoulder while I though it could be very painful.
I used a 22g for the injection, so a quite big needle.

----------


## BJJ

Actually, I think I went too deeply with the needle inside my quad.
I have now a huge bulge just where I injected.

----------


## BJJ

I am experiencing some weird effects by injection glutathione.
I am on day 5 and injected 2400 mg so far, with tonight I will be up to 3 g total.

My daily Kcalories have not changed at all as well as the proportion among macronutrients.
My strength is back as it used to be while on cycle and at the same time I am a little leaner, especially on my ribs.

Any clues from anyone who has tried glutathione to detox?

----------


## BJJ

*Day1*
60 oxa - 3.436 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day2*
60 oxa - 3.550 Kcal - (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Bursts of Heat

*Day3*
60 oxa - 3.199 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness

*Day4*
60 oxa - 3.340 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, 8 mg Loperamide

*Day5*
60 oxa - 2.799 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, Yellow Skin (left biceps & shoulder), 8 mg Loperamide, 25.000 iu Neomycin

*Day6*
60 oxa - 3.646 Kcal - (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Tiredness, Yellow Skin, 1 g Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day7*
60 oxa - 3.912 Kcal - (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Yellow Skin, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.411

1ST WEEK NOTES
The first week was very hard to go through. No will to eat at all and lots of problem to understand if the diarrhea was due from oxandrolone or liv.52; also I got a persistent sore throat.
The strength increase was considerable, especially on legs and shoulders.
As daily supplements throughout the cycle: (Multi Vitamins/Minerals 1 tb, Vitamin C/Ester 3 gr, EFA complex 6 gr, ALA 600 mg, LIV.52 2 tabs, CLA 4 gr, ZMA, Tribulus Terrestris 3 gr, Chromium Picolinate 400 mcg, Acetyl L-Carnitine 600 mg, Coenzyme Q10, Glutamine 35 gr, BCAA 20 gr, MT Gakic Hardcore 8 tbs (only before w/o), UN Animal Flex 1 pckt.

*Day 8*
60 oxa - 2.415 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite,Tiredness, 25.000 iu Neomycin, 8 mg Loperamide, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

*Day 9*
60 oxa - 3.400 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 10*
60 oxa - 2.760 Kcal - (Cardio 35’)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 11*
60 oxa - 4.208 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Oxandrolone kicked in

*Day 12*
60 oxa - 3.332 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 13*
60 oxa - 3.645 Kcal - (Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 14*
60 oxa - 3.976 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.392

2ND WEEK NOTES
At day 11 finally Anavar showed me its potentiality by improving my strength incredibly. Not only the power to lift was improved but also the reps needed to exhaust the muscles.
Furthermore, I am starving again especially after the work-outs.
The diarrhea was given by Liv.52. I solved the problem by taking only 1 tab in the morning.

*Day 15*
60 oxa – 3.698 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 16*
60 oxa – 3.645 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 17*
60 oxa – 3.591 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Diarrhea, 8 mg Loperamide

*Day 18*
60 oxa – 3.016 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region
Blood Work: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=404795

*Day 19*
60 oxa – 3.125 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 20*
60 oxa – 3.332 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, 400 mg Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day 21*
60 oxa – 3.129 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, Headache, 2 g Paracetamol, 500 mg Acetylcysteine Antibiotic, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.362

3RD WEEK NOTES
I understood that the best time to take oxandrolone is after the meals, not before or during, otherwise I get diarrhea and this apart from ingesting Liv.52.
Unfortunately, I got a bit sick yesterday and today is even worse. Every year I suffer from sinusitis which I hope to cure as fast as possible.
In regards of the results of blood analyses above reported, my bilirubin values decreased within the normal range, as expected. Oxandrolone seems "to cure" Gilberts's syndrome (which I have).
Of course, either LDL, HDL and Transaminase went up; as well as azotemia which was already a bit higher and surely it could not start declining during the cycle.
Strangely, creatinine stayed at the same level but this is good in relation with azotemia.
What I do not understand are the values related to LH, FSH and HGH compared with DHEAS. Hopefully my endocrinologist, if not someone in here before, will explain this issue.

*Day 22*
60 oxa – 5.096 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, Diarrhea, 100 mg Nimesulide, 500 mg Acetylcysteine Antibiotic, 600 mg Acetylcysteine, 25.000 iu Neomycin, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 23*
60 oxa – 4.003 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 24*
60 oxa – 3.650 Kcal – (Back)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 25*
60 oxa – 4.021 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 26*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 4.374 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 27*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 5.338 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Libido is Back, Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 28*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.071 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 4.221

4TH WEEK NOTES
Fortunately sinusitis, which I had between day 20/22, went away quickly.
At day 26 I added 3 gr of Tribulus Terrestris daily.
Since also from day 26 I am ingesting Mesterolone, my libido in back and I have very hard erections. Furthermore, I feel I can last longer while having sex.
My daily Kcalories intake was brought up to more than 4.000 (just checking how much fat I will store comparing to when I was eating/training the same, naturally).
This afternoon I underwent a full abdominal echography to see the overall situation and try to figure out if the pang I felt sometimes around my lower back was due to a kidney problem. The response was negative, all the organs are fine and was told it might be a problem related to training, probably a muscular micro-lesion less than 1mm, therefore not visible.
The persistent sore throat, reported at week 1, it is still there.[/QUOTE]

*Day 29*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 5.723 Kcal – (Shoulders, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Problems to fall asleep because I took the last tabs of Oxandrolone around midnight, 2 g Ketoprofen foam, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 30*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 4.790 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 2 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 31*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 5.999 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 32*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.461 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Diarrhea, 8 mg Loperamide, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 33*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 2.763 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 200 mg Nimesulide, 4 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 34*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 4.321 Kcal – (Chest & Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 35*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.973 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Diarrhea, 100 mg Nimesulide

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 4.432

5TH WEEK NOTES
So, in 19 days I took 6,6 lbs of lean mass (estimate) while fat increased a bit more but still under control (considering also I am not eating low glycemic index carbs at all) and water kept at the same value.
I would say so far, oxandrolone is showing its ability to increase the lean mass controlling either the fat and the water.
I am quite satisfied because I think I can easily go down to 12% bf retaining most of the lean mass acquired. I will act so the last ten days of the cycle. Till that time, I want to continue eating that much calories and proteins. Perhaps I can start eating more oats instead of pasta and rice.
At day 30 I started to ingest 10 mg more of Oxandrolone daily, for a total of 70 mg.
At day 35 I went back to 60 mg since I noticed no differences at all and the back pain on the lumbar right region came back again in a vigorous way. I am getting tired of this also because in spite of the echography I took lastly (which was fine), the pain is always there and seems to get worse after I ingest Oxandrolone. I had no possibility, as previously stated, to go taking blood analyses a few days ago, but I’ll go tomorrow morning. I want to see if the values related to the liver and the kidneys have stabilized or not. In negative case, it could be an explanation for the pain. Surely, I cannot keep taking nimesulide to get rid of the pain since it is very liver toxic too and gives diarrhea.
Strength keeps increasing.
The persistent sore throat, reported at week 1, it is finally gone.

*Day 36*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.640 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil
Blood Work: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=406359

*Day 37*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.511 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 100 mg Nimesulide

*Day 38*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.332 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 39*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.042 Kcal – (Cardio 30’)
Sides & Notes: 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 40*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.046 Kcal – (Cardio 30’)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 41*

80 oxa / 50 mes – 4.050 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Diarrhea, Dizziness late after dinner (several hours)

*Day 42*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 4.824 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Diarrhea, Dizziness late after dinner (just a few minutes)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.635

6TH WEEK NOTES
On day 41 I tried to raise the input from Oxandrolone by ingesting 20 mg more, for a total of 80 mg. The results were dizziness and confusion. The morning after I felt also some kind of hallucination and both yesterday and today the diarrhea came back. I decided not to push my luck and from day 42 I went back to 60 mg ed. After all, I had good results so far and see no reasons to screw everything up.
This week I ate a bit less to see if I could obtain a better definition but I also had the possibility to work-out only two days, so this made my effort fruitless.
Regarding my sperm, I realized it is more viscous than before and it seems also heavier.
Wondering if PCT is required since both LH and FSH are (and always were) within the normal ranges.

*Day 43*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 2.637 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Took 150 mg of Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid) by mistake

*Day 44*

60 oxa / 75 mes – 2.659 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 45*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 2.511 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil
+0.10 oxa

*Day 46*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 3.373 Kcal – (Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 47*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 2.754 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat/Ears/Head, 2 g Paracetamol

*Day 48*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 2.564 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat/Ears, 2 g Paracetamol

*Day 49*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 3.237 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat, 2 g Paracetamol

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 2.819

7TH WEEK NOTES
On day 43, I wrongly took 150 mg of Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid) at breakfast. I had an intestine discomfort, which lasted the entire morning.
On day 44, I raised the Mesterolone (Proviron ) daily intake of about 0,25 mg.
On day 45, I raised the Oxandrolone (Anavar) daily intake of about 0,10 mg.
I did not notice any improvement of any sort.
I figure out that strength increase ceased, even though I have not pushed to the limit to avoid injuries since I work-out in solitude.
This week I lowered my daily Kcalories intake because I realized I was putting on too much fat. I should be now back to 14% or less maybe, while by the end of last week I surely was above 15%.
In any case, in the next weekend I am going to check my stats again.
In the following and last week (8th), I am going to lower the daily intake of anavar down to 60 mg while starting from tomorrow morning I shall not ingest proviron anymore.
I need to see if mesterolone is related to the upsurge of my LH and FSH values. So, next Saturday I shall take the last blood work on cycle and accordingly, I set up the proper pct.

*Day 50*

60 oxa – 2.589 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Cough, 2 g Paracetamol, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 51*

60 oxa – 3.299 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Cough, 1 g Paracetamol
Sperm Analyses: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=407537

*Day 52*

60 oxa – 3.051 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Cough, 1 g Paracetamol

*Day 53*

60 oxa – 2.978 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 54*

60 oxa – 2.897 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 55*

60 oxa – 3.040 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 56*

70 oxa – 2.598 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil
Blood Wok: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=408288

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 2.921
Daily Average Bulking KCalories Intake (56 days): 3.159
Oxandrolone Daily Ingestion Average (56 days): 63 mg

8TH WEEK NOTES
Nothing particular to report on this final week, except I lowered the total daily intake of Kcalories to prepare myself for the following three weeks of PCT, where I am going to use 3.000 Kcalories on a daily average with 300/330 grams of protides.
Furthermore, after discontinuing the Mesterolone at day 49, the FSH dropped back while testosterone free doubled, +100%.

”BULKING” CONCLUSIONS
Being on my first cycle, I believe I had good results especially in strength.
After almost 20 years of martial arts as well as training in the gym plus other spare sport activities, I started this cycle with a bit of concern in relation to some elbows pangs I have felt in the last months. So, I never pushed to the limit really and always trained in solitude to avoid that.
Furthermore, I was not able to accomplish a ”perfect” diet regime throughout the cycle, as I wanted to, due to personal reasons which also led me to sleep no so goodly and enough.
Said that, I believe I could have achieved better results but I am satisfied anyway.

As reported during the cycle, Oxandrolone gave me some strong dizziness at 80 mg ed.
For the rest, except a total loss of appetite the first week or so and some diarrhea till I understood when to ingest the drug (after main meals), I would say I have gotten only benefits. The pang on my elbows disappeared after one week supporting what I read regarding the ability of Oxandrolone to cure problems related to ligaments and tendons, or in case to relieve the associated pain.
Another good ability was in regard of water percentage in the body. I ate a lot, compared to what I have burned especially in the first weeks, and I got just a little fat on and no water retention at all. This is good for martial artists or any other sport where the “not useful” weight is an issue.
Regarding vascularization, I cannot say I noticed any improvement because I did not mean to use this compound to get ripped, while I wanted more strength and see how much lean mass I could obtain. I started the cycle at 12,9% bf, went up to 14,6% bf and then back to 14% bf now, more or less. However, I tried to reduce the daily Kcalories at the end of the cycle but mostly helped me to reduce the fat I have put on, not to see any veins on my chest.

Overall Strength Increase: *35%* (estimate)

Squat (legs) 100 kg (220 lbs) *130* kg (286 lbs) *+30%*
One Arm Dumbbell Row (back) 30 kg (66 lbs) *44* kg (96,8 lbs) *+46,66%*
Bench Press with Dumbbells (chest) 30 kg each (66 lbs) *40* kg (88 lbs) *+33,33%*
Military Press with Dumbbells (shoulders) 24 kg each (52,8 lbs) *34* kg (74,8 lbs)* +41,66%*
Dumbbells Curls (biceps - seated) 24 kg each (52,8 lbs) *30* kg (66 lbs) *+25%*
Dumbbells Curls (triceps - lying down) 18 kg each (39,6 lbs) *24* kg (52,8 lbs) *+33,33%*

Lean Body Mass Acquisition (LBM): *9,043* kg (*19,89* lbs)
_by Whole Body Hologic QDR-4500W DXA Fan-Beam Scanner_

_(current-previous)/previous*100 = (+) increase% or (-) decrease%_

*Day 57*
*Day 1 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.555 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Flatulence, 20 mg Tadalafil

*Day 58*
*Day 2 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.556 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Increased size of testicles

*Day 59*
*Day 3 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.484 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 60*
*Day 4 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.596 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 61*
*Day 5 pct*

50 clo / 40 nol – 2.708 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Testicles back to normal

*Day 62*
*Day 6 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.383 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 63*
*Day 7 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.513 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.399

9TH WEEK NOTES
Strength kept being at the same level while muscles, right after I stopped the ingestion of Oxandrolone, started to ache for a few days.
Testicles increased the day after I started my pct, but after a few days came back to their normal size.
At day 5 (61) I ingested 40 mg of Tamoxifen Citrate to see if I could notice any difference but that day I could not eat as much as I had to, so I thwarted the attempt. In any case, having also used 50 mg of clomid, 20 mg of Nolva should be enough.
While, I shall get a full blood work to be compared to the one taken before the cycle, after my detox protocol (GSH), which will start three days after the end of PCT.
Regarding Tadalafil, I took it at day 1 to give it a try, in spite of during the entire cycle I had loss of libido but never problems to have sex normally. Anyway, I noticed no differences while my intestine became full of gas in about two hours. Fortunately, the morning after I was fine again.

*Day 58*
*Day 8 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.907 Kcal – (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 59*
*Day 9 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.583 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: 4 mg Loperamide

*Day 60*
*Day 10 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 4.345 Kcal – (Legs, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 61*
*Day 11 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.697 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 62*
*Day 12 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.510 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 63*
*Day 13 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.912 Kcal – (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 64*
*Day 14 pct*

20 nol – 3.093 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.721

10TH WEEK NOTES
Strength decreased a bit. If I could achieve a “x” weight for 10 reps, now I go up to 8 max.
On day 14 (64), I ceased ingesting clomid, so the rest of the final week will be only nolva 20 mg ed.

*Day 65*
*Day 15 pct*

20 nol – 3.373 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: 10 mg Vardenafil

*Day 66*
*Day 16 pct*

20 nol – 4.365 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 67*
*Day 17 pct*

20 nol – 3.566 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: 2 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 68*
*Day 18 pct*

20 nol – 3.366 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: 2 g Ketoprofen foam, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 69*
*Day 19 pct*

20 nol / 0,06 cln – 3.552 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 70*
*Day 20 pct*

20 nol / 0,06 cln – 3.607 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 71*
*Day 21 pct*

20 nol / 0,08 cln – 3.014 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.549
Daily Average PCT KCalories Intake (21 days): 3.556

11TH WEEK NOTES
On day 69 I started a ten days cyle of Clenbuterol (60/60/80/80/100/100/100/100/60/60). After that, 3 days off in order to start a 10 days GSH detox protocol. Then, I shall have my final and complete blood work done.

*Day 72*
*Day 22 pct*

0,08 cln – 2.700 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 73*
*Day 23 pct*

0,10 cln – 3.416 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 74*
*Day 24 pct*

0,10 cln – 2.907 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 75*
*Day 25 pct*

0,10 cln – 3.038 Kcal – (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: 8 mg Loperamide, 2 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 76*
*Day 26 pct*

0,10 cln – 3.094 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: 2 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 77*
*Day 27 pct*

nil – 3.324 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: 3 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 78*
*Day 28 pct*

0,06 cln – 3.233 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.101

12TH WEEK NOTES
Nothing to report.

*Day 79*
*Day 29 pct*

nil – 3.229 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: 1 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 80*
*Day 30 pct*

nil – 3.019 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: 1 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 81*
*Day 31 pct*

600 gsh – 3.229 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Started GSH injections

*Day 82*
*Day 32 pct*

600 gsh – 3.101 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 83*
*Day 33 pct*

600 gsh – 3.555 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: 4 mg Loperamide

*Day 84*
*Day 34 pct*

600 gsh – 3.112 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: 25.000 iu Neomycin, 4 mg Loperamide

*Day 85*
*Day 35 pct*

600 gsh – 3.336 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.225

13TH WEEK NOTES
I noticed by keeping (more or less) the same amount of Kcalories and proportion among macronutrients, a visible improvement of my LBM, especially on my ribs.

----------


## BJJ

*Day1*
60 oxa - 3.436 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day2*
60 oxa - 3.550 Kcal - (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Bursts of Heat

*Day3*
60 oxa - 3.199 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness

*Day4*
60 oxa - 3.340 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, 8 mg Loperamide

*Day5*
60 oxa - 2.799 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Diarrhea, Tiredness, Face Swelling, Yellow Skin (left biceps & shoulder), 8 mg Loperamide, 25.000 iu Neomycin

*Day6*
60 oxa - 3.646 Kcal - (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Tiredness, Yellow Skin, 1 g Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day7*
60 oxa - 3.912 Kcal - (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite, Yellow Skin, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.411

1ST WEEK NOTES
The first week was very hard to go through. No will to eat at all and lots of problem to understand if the diarrhea was due from oxandrolone or liv.52; also I got a persistent sore throat.
The strength increase was considerable, especially on legs and shoulders.
As daily supplements throughout the cycle: (Multi Vitamins/Minerals 1 tb, Vitamin C/Ester 3 g, EFA complex 6 g, ALA 600 mg, LIV.52 2 tabs, CLA 4 g, ZMA, Tribulus Terrestris 3 g, Chromium Picolinate 400 mcg, Acetyl L-Carnitine 600 mg, Coenzyme Q10, Glutamine 35 g, BCAA 20 g, MT Gakic Hardcore 8 tbs (only before w/o), UN Animal Flex 1 pckt.

*Day 8*
60 oxa - 2.415 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite,Tiredness, 25.000 iu Neomycin, 8 mg Loperamide, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

*Day 9*
60 oxa - 3.400 Kcal - (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 10*
60 oxa - 2.760 Kcal - (Cardio 35’)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Appetite

*Day 11*
60 oxa - 4.208 Kcal - (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Oxandrolone kicked in

*Day 12*
60 oxa - 3.332 Kcal - (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 13*
60 oxa - 3.645 Kcal - (Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 14*
60 oxa - 3.976 Kcal - (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.392

2ND WEEK NOTES
At day 11 finally Anavar showed me its potentiality by improving my strength incredibly. Not only the power to lift was improved but also the reps needed to exhaust the muscles.
Furthermore, I am starving again especially after the work-outs.
The diarrhea was given by Liv.52. I solved the problem by taking only 1 tab in the morning.

*Day 15*
60 oxa – 3.698 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 16*
60 oxa – 3.645 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 17*
60 oxa – 3.591 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Diarrhea, 8 mg Loperamide

*Day 18*
60 oxa – 3.016 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Back pain on the lumbar right region
Blood Work: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=404795

*Day 19*
60 oxa – 3.125 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 20*
60 oxa – 3.332 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, 400 mg Acetylsalicy Acid

*Day 21*
60 oxa – 3.129 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, Headache, 2 g Paracetamol, 500 mg Acetylcysteine Antibiotic, 600 mg Acetylcysteine

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.362

3RD WEEK NOTES
I understood that the best time to take oxandrolone is after the meals, not before or during, otherwise I get diarrhea and this apart from ingesting Liv.52.
Unfortunately, I got a bit sick yesterday and today is even worse. Every year I suffer from sinusitis which I hope to cure as fast as possible.
In regards of the results of blood analyses above reported, my bilirubin values decreased within the normal range, as expected. Oxandrolone seems "to cure" Gilberts's syndrome (which I have).
Of course, either LDL, HDL and Transaminase went up; as well as azotemia which was already a bit higher and surely it could not start declining during the cycle.
Strangely, creatinine stayed at the same level but this is good in relation with azotemia.
What I do not understand are the values related to LH, FSH and HGH compared with DHEAS. Hopefully my endocrinologist, if not someone in here before, will explain this issue.

*Day 22*
60 oxa – 5.096 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), Sinusitis, Diarrhea, 100 mg Nimesulide, 500 mg Acetylcysteine Antibiotic, 600 mg Acetylcysteine, 25.000 iu Neomycin, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 23*
60 oxa – 4.003 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request), 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 24*
60 oxa – 3.650 Kcal – (Back)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 25*
60 oxa – 4.021 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 26*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 4.374 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Loss of Libido (only on request)

*Day 27*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 5.338 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Libido is Back, Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 28*
60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.071 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 4.221

4TH WEEK NOTES
Fortunately sinusitis, which I had between day 20/22, went away quickly.
At day 26 I added 3 g of Tribulus Terrestris daily.
Since also from day 26 I am ingesting Mesterolone, my libido is back and I have very hard erections. Furthermore, I feel I can last longer while having sex.
My daily Kcalories intake was brought up to more than 4.000 (just checking how much fat I will store comparing to when I was eating/training the same, naturally).
This afternoon I underwent a full abdominal echography to see the overall situation and try to figure out if the pang I felt sometimes around my lower back was due to a kidney problem. The response was negative, all the organs are fine and was told it might be a problem related to training, probably a muscular micro-lesion less than 1mm, therefore not visible.
The persistent sore throat, reported at week 1, it is still there.

*Day 29*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 5.723 Kcal – (Shoulders, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Problems to fall asleep because I took the last tabs of Oxandrolone around midnight, 2 g Ketoprofen foam, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 30*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 4.790 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 2 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 31*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 5.999 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region

*Day 32*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.461 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Diarrhea, 8 mg Loperamide, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 33*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 2.763 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 200 mg Nimesulide, 4 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 34*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 4.321 Kcal – (Chest & Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 35*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.973 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, Diarrhea, 100 mg Nimesulide

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 4.432

5TH WEEK NOTES
So, in 19 days I took 6,6 lbs of lean mass (estimate) while fat increased a bit more but still under control (considering also I am not eating low glycemic index carbs at all) and water kept at the same value.
I would say so far, oxandrolone is showing its ability to increase the lean mass controlling either the fat and the water.
I am quite satisfied because I think I can easily go down to 12% bf retaining most of the lean mass acquired. I will act so the last ten days of the cycle. Till that time, I want to continue eating that much calories and proteins. Perhaps I can start eating more oats instead of pasta and rice.
At day 30 I started to ingest 10 mg more of Oxandrolone daily, for a total of 70 mg.
At day 35 I went back to 60 mg since I noticed no differences at all and the back pain on the lumbar right region came back again in a vigorous way. I am getting tired of this also because in spite of the echography I took lastly (which was fine), the pain is always there and seems to get worse after I ingest Oxandrolone. I had no possibility, as previously stated, to go taking blood analyses a few days ago, but I’ll go tomorrow morning. I want to see if the values related to the liver and the kidneys have stabilized or not. In negative case, it could be an explanation for the pain. Surely, I cannot keep taking nimesulide to get rid of the pain since it is very liver toxic too and gives diarrhea.
Strength keeps increasing.
The persistent sore throat, reported at week 1, it is finally gone.

*Day 36*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.640 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil
Blood Work: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=406359

*Day 37*

70 oxa / 50 mes – 3.511 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Back pain on the lumbar right region, 100 mg Nimesulide

*Day 38*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.332 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 39*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.042 Kcal – (Cardio 30’)
Sides & Notes: 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 40*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 3.046 Kcal – (Cardio 30’)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 41*

80 oxa / 50 mes – 4.050 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Diarrhea, Dizziness late after dinner (several hours)

*Day 42*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 4.824 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Diarrhea, Dizziness late after dinner (just a few minutes)

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.635

6TH WEEK NOTES
On day 41 I tried to raise the input from Oxandrolone by ingesting 20 mg more, for a total of 80 mg. The results were dizziness and confusion. The morning after I felt also some kind of hallucination and both yesterday and today the diarrhea came back. I decided not to push my luck and from day 42 I went back to 60 mg ed. After all, I had good results so far and see no reasons to screw everything up.
This week I ate a bit less to see if I could obtain a better definition but I also had the possibility to work-out only two days, so this made my effort fruitless.
Regarding my sperm, I realized it is more viscous than before and it seems also heavier.
Wondering if PCT is required since both LH and FSH are (and always were) within the normal ranges.

*Day 43*

60 oxa / 50 mes – 2.637 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Took 150 mg of Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid) by mistake

*Day 44*

60 oxa / 75 mes – 2.659 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 45*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 2.511 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 46*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 3.373 Kcal – (Back)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 47*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 2.754 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat/Ears/Head, 2 g Paracetamol

*Day 48*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 2.564 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat/Ears, 2 g Paracetamol

*Day 49*

70 oxa / 75 mes – 3.237 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Sore Throat, 2 g Paracetamol

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 2.819

7TH WEEK NOTES
On day 43, I wrongly took 150 mg of Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid) at breakfast. I had an intestine discomfort, which lasted the entire morning.
On day 44, I raised the Mesterolone (Proviron ) daily intake of about 0,25 mg.
On day 45, I raised the Oxandrolone (Anavar) daily intake of about 0,10 mg.
I did not notice any improvement of any sort.
I figure out that strength increase ceased, even though I have not pushed to the limit to avoid injuries since I work-out in solitude.
This week I lowered my daily Kcalories intake because I realized I was putting on too much fat. I should be now back to 14% or less maybe, while by the end of last week I surely was above 15%.
In any case, in the next weekend I am going to check my stats again.
In the following and last week (8th), I am going to lower the daily intake of anavar down to 60 mg while starting from tomorrow morning I shall not ingest proviron anymore.
I need to see if mesterolone is related to the upsurge of my LH and FSH values. So, next Saturday I shall take the last blood work on cycle and accordingly, I set up the proper pct.

*Day 50*

60 oxa – 2.589 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Cough, 2 g Paracetamol, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 51*

60 oxa – 3.299 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Cough, 1 g Paracetamol
Sperm Analyses: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=407537

*Day 52*

60 oxa – 3.051 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Cough, 1 g Paracetamol

*Day 53*

60 oxa – 2.978 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 54*

60 oxa – 2.897 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 55*

60 oxa – 3.040 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 56*

70 oxa – 2.598 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil
Blood Wok: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=408288

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 2.921
Daily Average Bulking KCalories Intake (56 days): 3.159
Oxandrolone Daily Ingestion Average (56 days): 63 mg

8TH WEEK NOTES
Nothing particular to report on this final week, except I lowered the total daily intake of Kcalories to prepare myself for the following three weeks of PCT, where I am going to use 3.000 Kcalories on a daily average with 300/330 grams of protides.
Furthermore, after discontinuing the Mesterolone at day 49, the FSH dropped back while testosterone free doubled, +100%.

”BULKING” CONCLUSIONS
Being on my first cycle, I believe I had good results especially in strength.
After almost 20 years of martial arts as well as training in the gym plus other spare sport activities, I started this cycle with a bit of concern in relation to some elbows pangs I have felt in the last months. So, I never pushed to the limit really and always trained in solitude to avoid that.
Furthermore, I was not able to accomplish a ”perfect” diet regime throughout the cycle, as I wanted to, due to personal reasons which also led me to sleep no so goodly and enough.
Said that, I believe I could have achieved better results but I am satisfied anyway.

As reported during the cycle, Oxandrolone gave me some strong dizziness at 80 mg ed.
For the rest, except a total loss of appetite the first week or so and some diarrhea till I understood when to ingest the drug (after main meals), I would say I have gotten only benefits. The pang on my elbows disappeared after one week supporting what I read regarding the ability of Oxandrolone to cure problems related to ligaments and tendons, or in case to relieve the associated pain.
Another good ability was in regard of water percentage in the body. I ate a lot, compared to what I have burned especially in the first weeks, and I got just a little fat on and no water retention at all. This is good for martial artists or any other sport where the “not useful” weight is an issue.
Regarding vascularization, I cannot say I noticed any improvement because I did not mean to use this compound to get ripped, while I wanted more strength and see how much lean mass I could obtain. I started the cycle at 12,9% bf, went up to 14,6% bf and then back to 13% bf now, more or less. However, I tried to reduce the daily Kcalories at the end of the cycle but mostly helped me to reduce the fat I have put on, not to see any veins on my chest.

*Day 57*
*Day 1 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.555 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Flatulence, 20 mg Tadalafil

*Day 58*
*Day 2 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.556 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Increased size of testicles

*Day 59*
*Day 3 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.484 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 60*
*Day 4 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.596 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 61*
*Day 5 pct*

50 clo / 40 nol – 2.708 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Testicles back to normal

*Day 62*
*Day 6 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.383 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 63*
*Day 7 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.513 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.399

9TH WEEK NOTES
Strength kept being at the same level while muscles, right after I stopped the ingestion of Oxandrolone, started to ache for a few days.
Testicles increased the day after I started my pct, but after a few days came back to their normal size.
At day 5 (61) I ingested 40 mg of Tamoxifen Citrate to see if I could notice any difference but that day I could not eat as much as I had to, so I thwarted the attempt. In any case, having also used 50 mg of clomid, 20 mg of Nolva should be enough.
While, I shall get a full blood work to be compared to the one taken before the cycle, after my detox protocol (GSH), which will start three days after the end of PCT.
Regarding Tadalafil, I took it at day 1 to give it a try, in spite of during the entire cycle I had loss of libido but never problems to have sex normally. Anyway, I noticed no differences while my intestine became full of gas in about two hours. Fortunately, the morning after I was fine again.

*Day 64*
*Day 8 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.907 Kcal – (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 65*
*Day 9 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.583 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: 4 mg Loperamide

*Day 66*
*Day 10 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 4.345 Kcal – (Legs, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 67*
*Day 11 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.697 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 68*
*Day 12 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.510 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 69*
*Day 13 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol – 3.912 Kcal – (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 70*
*Day 14 pct*

20 nol – 3.093 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.721

10TH WEEK NOTES
Strength decreased a bit. If I could achieve a “x” weight for 10 reps, now I go up to 8 max.
On day 14 (70), I ceased ingesting clomid, so the rest of the final week will be only nolva 20 mg ed.

*Day 71*
*Day 15 pct*

20 nol – 3.373 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: 10 mg Vardenafil

*Day 72*
*Day 16 pct*

20 nol – 4.365 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 73*
*Day 17 pct*

20 nol – 3.566 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: 2 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 74*
*Day 18 pct*

20 nol – 3.366 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: 2 g Ketoprofen foam, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 75*
*Day 19 pct*

20 nol / 0,06 cln – 3.552 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 76*
*Day 20 pct*

20 nol / 0,06 cln – 3.607 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 77*
*Day 21 pct*

20 nol / 0,08 cln – 3.014 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.549
Daily Average PCT KCalories Intake (21 days): 3.556

11TH WEEK NOTES
On day 75 I started a ten days cyle of Clenbuterol (60/60/80/80/100/100/100/100/60/60). After that, 3 days off in order to start a 10 days GSH detox protocol. Then, I shall have my final and complete blood work done.

*Day 78*
*Day 22 pct*

0,08 cln – 2.700 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 79*
*Day 23 pct*

0,10 cln – 3.416 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 80*
*Day 24 pct*

0,10 cln – 2.907 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 81*
*Day 25 pct*

0,10 cln – 3.038 Kcal – (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: 8 mg Loperamide, 2 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 82*
*Day 26 pct*

0,10 cln – 3.094 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: 2 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 83*
*Day 27 pct*

nil – 3.324 Kcal – (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: 3 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 84*
*Day 28 pct*

0,06 cln – 3.233 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.101

12TH WEEK NOTES
Nothing to report.

*Day 85*
*Day 29 pct*

nil – 3.229 Kcal – (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: 1 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 86*
*Day 30 pct*

nil – 3.019 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: 1 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 87*
*Day 31 pct*

600 gsh – 3.229 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Started GSH injections

*Day 88*
*Day 32 pct*

600 gsh – 3.101 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 89*
*Day 33 pct*

600 gsh – 3.555 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: 4 mg Loperamide

*Day 90*
*Day 34 pct*

600 gsh – 3.112 Kcal – (Legs)
Sides & Notes: 25.000 iu Neomycin, 4 mg Loperamide

*Day 91*
*Day 35 pct*

600 gsh – 3.336 Kcal – (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.225

13TH WEEK NOTES
I noticed by keeping (more or less) the same amount of Kcalories and proportion among macronutrients, a visible improvement of my LBM, especially on my ribs.

*Day 92*
*Day 36 pct*

600 gsh – 3.156 Kcal – (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 93*
*Day 37 pct*

600 gsh – 3.484 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 94*
*Day 38 pct*

600 gsh – 3.053 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: 10 mg Vardenafil, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 95*
*Day 39 pct*

nil – 3.124 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 96*
*Day 40 pct*

600 gsh – 3.036 Kcal – (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.170

14TH WEEK NOTES
Cycle Over.

*Day 98 & 122*
Blood Work & Spermatic Cytoanalysis: _http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=417969_

----------


## VR4

So what do you weigh now? interested to see if your dropping noticable weight...

----------


## BJJ

> So what do you weigh now? interested to see if your dropping noticable weight...


Still 95 kg, nothing changed since I quit ingesting oxandrolone.
I eat around 330 g of protides ed and around 3.200 Kcal ed.
See no reason why I should lose weight.

----------


## pwnflow

> The following, thanks to Swifto, should answer your question:


Thanks for the post. Now I can clearly see why fareston is better than nolva but I still don't get while add clomid too. From what I understand they work the same way so just one or the other should be sufficient. :Hmmmm:

----------


## Serotonin

[Q]4TH WEEK NOTES
Fortunately sinusitis, which I had between day 20/22, went away quickly.
At day 26 I added 3 gr of Tribulus Terrestris daily.[/Q]

Curious... why the trib? Oxandrolone has been shown to be very easy on the liver even at higher BB dosages. It's quite mild. Just for piece of mind then?

Or if you're using it for libido that also has been shown in clinical studies to be ineffectual. 

I did 30 days on pretty high dose fluoxymesterone without taking anything to "shield my liver" or help it metabolize the orals. All my enzymes were fine after that cycle.

----------


## PO OFFICER

Why would you add nolva to your pct? There is no reason for it at all on this cycle. 

1. Anavar has the least amount of gyno in any steroid out there.
2. Even if your prone to gyno (like me) you still probably won't get it.
3. Clomid will take care of the little/any gyno you might get. 

BJJ, what I'm trying to say is that there is no reason at all for nolva to be included in your pct. Var hardly ever converts to estrogen, and when it does, it's such a small amount that clomid takes care of it. 

Now with that said, I'm not saying next time that you get gyno on a different cycle that you go ahead and take some clomid to get rid of it, because nolva is more effective. 150mgs of clomid = 40mgs of nolva for the treatment of gyno.

Best luck
PO

----------


## BJJ

> Thanks for the post. Now I can clearly see why fareston is better than nolva but I still don't get while add clomid too. From what I understand they work the same way so just one or the other should be sufficient.


It should be, yes.

----------


## BJJ

> [Q]4TH WEEK NOTES
> Fortunately sinusitis, which I had between day 20/22, went away quickly.
> At day 26 I added 3 gr of Tribulus Terrestris daily.[/Q]
> 
> Curious... why the trib? Oxandrolone has been shown to be very easy on the liver even at higher BB dosages. It's quite mild. Just for piece of mind then?
> 
> Or if you're using it for libido that also has been shown in clinical studies to be ineffectual. 
> 
> I did 30 days on pretty high dose fluoxymesterone without taking anything to "shield my liver" or help it metabolize the orals. All my enzymes were fine after that cycle.


Sorry, I do not understand your first question.

For libido, it does work for me; while it is ineffective in raising endogenous testosterone  production.

----------


## BJJ

> Why would you add nolva to your pct? There is no reason for it at all on this cycle. 
> 
> 1. Anavar has the least amount of gyno in any steroid out there.
> 2. Even if your prone to gyno (like me) you still probably won't get it.
> 3. Clomid will take care of the little/any gyno you might get. 
> 
> BJJ, what I'm trying to say is that there is no reason at all for nolva to be included in your pct. Var hardly ever converts to estrogen, and when it does, it's such a small amount that clomid takes care of it. 
> 
> Now with that said, I'm not saying next time that you get gyno on a different cycle that you go ahead and take some clomid to get rid of it, because nolva is more effective. 150mgs of clomid = 40mgs of nolva for the treatment of gyno.
> ...


Nolva in pct is needed mostly to start back the HPTA, as well as clomid.
Anyway, oxandrolone does not aromatize and never read any reports over gyno on only anavar.

Furthermore, I wanted to try to have my test ttl value, after the entire cycle, higher than before, where it was in the low of the range values.
This is the reason why I took both clomid and nolva.

In a few days I have my blood work results and I'll see.

----------


## Serotonin

> Sorry, I do not understand your first question.
> 
> For libido, it does work for me; while it is ineffective in raising endogenous testosterone production.


Ah, yohimbine did wayyyyyy more for my libido than trib ever did so I was just curious. Nice thread, thanks for all the effort put into it.

----------


## BJJ

> Ah, yohimbine did wayyyyyy more for my libido than trib ever did so I was just curious. Nice thread, thanks for all the effort put into it.


Thanks for noticing.

----------


## PO OFFICER

What is your pct BJJ? Not including hcg if you're doing it. 

Btw, I miss your gorilla picture :P

----------


## BJJ

> What is your pct BJJ? Not including hcg if you're doing it. 
> 
> Btw, I miss your gorilla picture :P


No need fot HCG:

*Day 57*
*Day 1 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol  3.555 Kcal  (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Flatulence, 20 mg Tadalafil

*Day 58*
*Day 2 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol  3.556 Kcal  (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Increased size of testicles

*Day 59*
*Day 3 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol  3.484 Kcal  (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 60*
*Day 4 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol  3.596 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 61*
*Day 5 pct*

50 clo / 40 nol  2.708 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Testicles back to normal

*Day 62*
*Day 6 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol  3.383 Kcal  (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 63*
*Day 7 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol  3.513 Kcal  (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.399

9TH WEEK NOTES
Strength kept being at the same level while muscles, right after I stopped the ingestion of Oxandrolone, started to ache for a few days.
Testicles increased the day after I started my pct, but after a few days came back to their normal size.
At day 5 (61) I ingested 40 mg of Tamoxifen Citrate to see if I could notice any difference but that day I could not eat as much as I had to, so I thwarted the attempt. In any case, having also used 50 mg of clomid, 20 mg of Nolva should be enough.
While, I shall get a full blood work to be compared to the one taken before the cycle, after my detox protocol (GSH), which will start three days after the end of PCT.
Regarding Tadalafil, I took it at day 1 to give it a try, in spite of during the entire cycle I had loss of libido but never problems to have sex normally. Anyway, I noticed no differences while my intestine became full of gas in about two hours. Fortunately, the morning after I was fine again.

*Day 58*
*Day 8 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol  3.907 Kcal  (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 59*
*Day 9 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol  3.583 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: 4 mg Loperamide

*Day 60*
*Day 10 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol  4.345 Kcal  (Legs, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 61*
*Day 11 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol  3.697 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 62*
*Day 12 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol  3.510 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 63*
*Day 13 pct*

50 clo / 20 nol  3.912 Kcal  (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 64*
*Day 14 pct*

20 nol  3.093 Kcal  (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.721

10TH WEEK NOTES
Strength decreased a bit. If I could achieve a x weight for 10 reps, now I go up to 8 max.
On day 14 (64), I ceased ingesting clomid, so the rest of the final week will be only nolva 20 mg ed.

*Day 65*
*Day 15 pct*

20 nol  3.373 Kcal  (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: 10 mg Vardenafil

*Day 66*
*Day 16 pct*

20 nol  4.365 Kcal  (Biceps & Triceps, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 67*
*Day 17 pct*

20 nol  3.566 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: 2 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 68*
*Day 18 pct*

20 nol  3.366 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: 2 g Ketoprofen foam, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 69*
*Day 19 pct*

20 nol / 0,06 cln  3.552 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 70*
*Day 20 pct*

20 nol / 0,06 cln  3.607 Kcal  (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 71*
*Day 21 pct*

20 nol / 0,08 cln  3.014 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.549
Daily Average PCT KCalories Intake (21 days): 3.556

11TH WEEK NOTES
On day 69 I started a ten days cyle of Clenbuterol (60/60/80/80/100/100/100/100/60/60). After that, 3 days off in order to start a 10 days GSH detox protocol. Then, I shall have my final and complete blood work done.

*Day 72*
*Day 22 pct*

0,08 cln  2.700 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 73*
*Day 23 pct*

0,10 cln  3.416 Kcal  (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 74*
*Day 24 pct*

0,10 cln  2.907 Kcal  (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 75*
*Day 25 pct*

0,10 cln  3.038 Kcal  (Back, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: 8 mg Loperamide, 2 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 76*
*Day 26 pct*

0,10 cln  3.094 Kcal  (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: 2 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 77*
*Day 27 pct*

nil  3.324 Kcal  (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu)
Sides & Notes: 3 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 78*
*Day 28 pct*

0,06 cln  3.233 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.101

12TH WEEK NOTES
Nothing to report.

*Day 79*
*Day 29 pct*

nil  3.229 Kcal  (Biceps & Triceps)
Sides & Notes: 1 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 80*
*Day 30 pct*

nil  3.019 Kcal  (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: 1 g Ketoprofen foam

*Day 81*
*Day 31 pct*

600 gsh  3.229 Kcal  (Legs)
Sides & Notes: Started GSH injections

*Day 82*
*Day 32 pct*

600 gsh  3.101 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 83*
*Day 33 pct*

600 gsh  3.555 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: 4 mg Loperamide

*Day 84*
*Day 34 pct*

600 gsh  3.112 Kcal  (Legs)
Sides & Notes: 25.000 iu Neomycin, 4 mg Loperamide

*Day 85*
*Day 35 pct*

600 gsh  3.336 Kcal  (Chest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.225

13TH WEEK NOTES
I noticed by keeping (more or less) the same amount of Kcalories and proportion among macronutrients, a visible improvement of my LBM, especially on my ribs.

*Day 86*
*Day 36 pct*

600 gsh  3.156 Kcal  (Shoulders)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 87*
*Day 37 pct*

600 gsh  3.484 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 88*
*Day 38 pct*

600 gsh  3.053 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: 10 mg Vardenafil, 10 mg Diazepam

*Day 89*
*Day 39 pct*

nil  3.124 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

*Day 90*
*Day 40 pct*

600 gsh  3.036 Kcal  (Rest)
Sides & Notes: Nil

Daily Average KCalories Intake: 3.170

14TH WEEK NOTES
Nothing to report.

The gorilla might be back someday...

----------


## Mr Busta sweat

Thanks for all the usefull Info BJJ.. Iam about to begin a var cycle only. I really appreciate all the work you went through in putting this Log together man.

----------


## BJJ

> Thanks for all the usefull Info BJJ.. Iam about to begin a var cycle only. I really appreciate all the work you went through in putting this Log together man.


Thanks.
Good luck for your cycle.

----------


## tappeast

REDICULOUSLY INFORMATIVE THREAD!!! 

serious information available throughout. I'm a new guy and have read off and on this forum for a few months. 

I fear as a new guy, having a source ready to go, that, I am not informed as I should be prior to use.......

information on this subject is infinite.

I am very interested in gaining strength mainly and some added weight within 10-15lbs of my own.

30 yrs
5'8"
175
12% BF

collagen synthesis is a major factor for me to maintain, build and protect my tendons/joints while training.

plan to as suggested during this thread to go 6 weeks with VAR at 70mg. nolva, possibly clomid PCT.

possibly a VAR/Deca stack or VAR/Equipoise cycle as alternatives.....would like to hear your opinion of these stacks in regards to my wishes being involved in a sport in which I must maintain my weight within 10-15lbs of my natural of 175lbs. I do have some room to make in bringing down my EST BF% of 12% to clear space for my intention of getting leaner and building some lean mass as well.

suggestions?









> *Something else you may want to read about either winny and var:*
> 
> While injecting test increases Protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.
> 
> Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. tendons tear easily on it.
> Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.
> Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.
> 
> You can plan a cycle of anabolic steroids which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.
> ...

----------


## BJJ

> REDICULOUSLY INFORMATIVE THREAD!!! 
> 
> serious information available throughout. I'm a new guy and have read off and on this forum for a few months. 
> 
> I fear as a new guy, having a source ready to go, that, I am not informed as I should be prior to use.......
> 
> information on this subject is infinite.
> 
> I am very interested in gaining strength mainly and some added weight within 10-15lbs of my own.
> ...



If I had to choose between your options I would go for eq over deca.
Just take into account eq will make you starving so either you take a low dose (but you may experinece no benefits at all) or you go for 400 mgw (a solid starting base) but with the risk of eating too much!
Please note, I have no direct experience on Boldenone Undecylenate, therefore I speak on personal readings.

You may also want to consider mesterolone (proviron ) to stak with oxandrolone since it helped me to hold LH and FSH values within the normal ranges.
Consider that as my personal experience only, since as far as I am concerned, there are no studies to support that.

Good Luck

----------


## pwnflow

> If I had to choose between your options I would go for eq over deca .
> Just take into account eq will make you starving so either you take a low dose (but you may experinece no benefits at all) or you go for 400 mgw (a solid starting base) but with the risk of eating too much!
> Please note, I have no direct experience on Boldenone Undecylenate, therefore I speak on personal readings.
> 
> You may also want to consider mesterolone (proviron ) to stak with oxandrolone since it helped me to hold LH and FSH values within the normal ranges.
> Consider that as my personal experience only, since as far as I am concerned, there are no studies to support that.
> 
> Good Luck


BJJ do you know the actual studies that show how these compounds effect the collagen synthesis? I have read it before but I have never found the source. Also what are your thought on using HCG instead of proviron?

----------


## BJJ

> BJJ do you know the actual studies that show how these compounds effect the collagen synthesis? I have read it before but I have never found the source. Also what are your thought on using HCG instead of proviron?


Take a look on this thread, there is all the information you need on Oxandrolone, since I posted many studies over it.

HCG and Mesterolone are two different things. There is no reason to use HCG with Oxandrolone since you will not experience any testicular shrinkage (never found a study that stated differently).
Use Proviron instead to to get rid of excess water (which in any case is experienced with Oxandrolone only over 100 mg ed), prevent eventual gyno (rare with Anavar ) and for its ability to break the link between AAS-SHBG.

----------


## tappeast

> If I had to choose between your options I would go for eq over deca .
> Just take into account eq will make you starving so either you take a low dose (but you may experinece no benefits at all) or you go for 400 mgw (a solid starting base) but with the risk of eating too much!
> Please note, I have no direct experience on Boldenone Undecylenate, therefore I speak on personal readings.
> 
> You may also want to consider mesterolone (proviron ) to stak with oxandrolone since it helped me to hold LH and FSH values within the normal ranges.
> Consider that as my personal experience only, since as far as I am concerned, there are no studies to support that.
> 
> Good Luck


thanks for the reply, I think i'm going to just do the VAR on its own....being my first time and geared more to my objectives.

any chance I can speak with you through PM and discuss a couple questions I have, not talking source check either.

----------


## BJJ

> thanks for the reply, I think i'm going to just do the VAR on its own....being my first time and geared more to my objectives.
> 
> any chance I can speak with you through PM and discuss a couple questions I have, not talking source check either.


To PM you need 25 posts I believe.
You may also discuss on here if related to aas, no problem for me.

----------


## tappeast

jeez, i understand the whole.....educate before you medicate thing, but d*mn, 25 posts or 45 days membership does not make me or anyone else more credible.

----------


## tappeast

also....and 1 more postwhoring notch under my belt.....everything that can be said under this topic or any other one have been already answered 1000x before all over this board. its the REAL questions I have that can't be answered on this board pertaining sensitive questions everyone are so eager to condemn.....I even get it and understand completely as to why.....but, it still doesnt answer some of my questions.

----------


## BJJ

> jeez, i understand the whole.....educate before you medicate thing, but d*mn, 25 posts or 45 days membership does not make me or anyone else more credible.





> also....and 1 more postwhoring notch under my belt.....everything that can be said under this topic or any other one have been already answered 1000x before all over this board. its the REAL questions I have that can't be answered on this board pertaining sensitive questions everyone are so eager to condemn.....I even get it and understand completely as to why.....but, it still doesnt answer some of my questions.


 :Hmmmm:  :Hmmmm:  :Hmmmm:  :Hmmmm:  :Hmmmm:

----------


## tappeast

you dont get it huh....well, I changed and updated my avatar to make me look more credible.... and to let people know what I think MOST of the time......look at my avatar and tell me again you dont understand what i'm saying....

----------


## BJJ

> you dont get it huh....well, I changed and updated my avatar to make me look more credible.... and to let people know what I think MOST of the time......look at my avatar and tell me again you dont understand what i'm saying....


Sorry I do not understand your point, first.
Second, I have no idea who you are refferring to and in relation to what.

----------


## tappeast

> Sorry I do not understand your point, first.
> Second, I have no idea who you are refferring to and in relation to what.


1) whatever man.........we could go back and forth all night like this....and when I say we.....I MEAN YOU (BJJ), we are the only ppl talking on this thread right now....seems you are having difficulties in this area.

2) what I am referring to....since you also seem to be having difficulties in this area as well....I am trying to soak up some of your 6 months total knowledge/ experience on this board, 2500+ posts and 1 cycle experience making you a near VET at this point. 

you (BJJ) have done a VAR cycle, flamed or not, I WANT TO KNOW IF MY PRICING IS RIGHT FROM MY SOURCE....HELP OR NO HELP???? VAR , btw

----------


## BJJ

> To PM you need 25 posts I believe.
> You may also discuss on here if related to aas, no problem for me.





> 1) whatever man.........we could go back and forth all night like this....and when I say we.....I MEAN YOU (BJJ), we are the only ppl talking on this thread right now....seems you are having difficulties in this area.
> 
> 2) what I am referring to....since you also seem to be having difficulties in this area as well....I am trying to soak up some of your 6 months total knowledge/ experience on this board, 2500+ posts and 1 cycle experience making you a near VET at this point. 
> 
> you (BJJ) have done a VAR cycle, flamed or not, I WANT TO KNOW IF MY PRICING IS RIGHT FROM MY SOURCE....HELP OR NO HELP???? VAR , btw


You must have had bad day, lol.

In the post above written, I just tell you that in order to PM someone you need to have 25 posts. That is it. It is just a rule of the forum, like it or not.
I was just informing you, nothing more nothing less, since I experienced the same problem when I joined.

What you have written on your last post, especially section 2 makes me believe you overreacted on something which grew up only into your brain.

Then, regarding your question where you kindly ask "I want to know...", I am sorry to inform you, not being neither pretending to be a vet, I cannot help you because my experience is little.

I wish you tomorrow to have a better day than today.

----------


## pwnflow

> Take a look on this thread, there is all the information you need on Oxandrolone, since I posted many studies over it.
> 
> HCG and Mesterolone are two different things. There is no reason to use HCG with Oxandrolone since you will not experience any testicular shrinkage (never found a study that stated differently).
> Use Proviron instead to to get rid of excess water (which in any case is experienced with Oxandrolone only over 100 mg ed), prevent eventual gyno (rare with Anavar ) and for its ability to break the link between AAS-SHBG.


Yes I have seen those studies but I mean where this we get such specific numbers from.
_
deca -Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate @ 3 mg/kg a week (about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate is a very good drug at giving you everything you want, an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood.
primobolan , @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180%, less than deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - and equipoise but still substantial.
Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340%, slightly better than deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate.


_

----------


## BJJ

> Yes I have seen those studies but I mean where this we get such specific numbers from.
> _
> deca -Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate @ 3 mg/kg a week (about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate is a very good drug at giving you everything you want, an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood.
> primobolan , @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180%, less than deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - and equipoise but still substantial.
> Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340%, slightly better than deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate.
> 
> 
> _


Do you mean from which scientific source?

----------


## pwnflow

> Do you mean from which scientific source?


Exactly.

----------


## BJJ

> Exactly.


http://edrv.endojournals.org/
http://www.sciencedirect.com/

There are many other sources though.

----------


## pwnflow

Thanks for that. I am learning a lot




> Then, I am going to get a new, final and complete blood work.
> So, still 16 days for the BW.


Got the blood work done? Can't wait to see the final results. Blood test after PCT will determine how much was it worth!

----------


## BJJ

> Thanks for that. I am learning a lot
> 
> 
> 
> Got the blood work done? Can't wait to see the final results. Blood test after PCT will determine how much was it worth!


Yes, two weeks ago and by monday afternoon I am going to have the final results.

----------


## BJJ

For those interested in the final blood work results, the lab is giving me a hard time but hopefully before Friday...!
Just be patient a bit more.

PS
However, I already know both test total and free test values are higher than before the cycle so, the addition of Clomid in my pct, should have been a right idea.
There is a but... my PRL is also higher than before!

----------


## nilrac

Thanks for the update, BJJ.

p.s Please excuse my ignorance, but the abbreviation "PRL", what does it stand for?

----------


## BJJ

> Thanks for the update, BJJ.
> 
> p.s Please excuse my ignorance, but the abbreviation "PRL", what does it stand for?


Ignorance? you have no idea how ignorant I am...

PRL or LTH = Prolactin

----------


## kaigab

> For those interested in the final blood work results, the lab is giving me a hard time but hopefully before Friday...!
> Just be patient a bit more.
> 
> PS
> However, I already know both test total and free test values are higher than before the cycle so, the addition of Clomid in my pct, should have been a right idea.
> There is a but... my PRL is also higher than before!


how high is it? PRL is the stress hormone...in 3 different blood samples (every 2 months) i got 3 different values (one low, one high, and one medium)...my endo told that if you just are nervous while they take your blood...PRL gets high.

Obviously i am talking of values within "normal" lab range...

----------


## BJJ

> how high is it? PRL is the stress hormone...in 3 different blood samples (every 2 months) i got 3 different values (one low, one high, and one medium)...my endo told that if you just are nervous while they take your blood...PRL gets high.
> 
> Obviously i am talking of values within "normal" lab range...


Well, it should not be a concern since it is within the ranges.
I am about to post a partial blood work at post n.2, the *?* means "awaiting the results".

----------


## AndriodLee

Really informative post mate. I can't wait to read about when you get your blood work back.

----------


## BJJ

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...=1#post5048537

*BLOOD, URINE, FAECES & SPERM ANALYSES:*
__________________________________________________*18*__________*36*__________*51*__________*56*__________*98* (4W PCT)_____*122* (8W PCT)

*BLOOD*
ERYTHROCYTES: *5,18* mil/mmc [4 - 5,5]__________________________________________________ ___*5,2*_________*5,34*
LEUCOCYTES: *7,3* mila/mmc [4 - 9]__________________________________________________ _______*8,6*_________*7,5*
- NE: *4,1* / *55,8* % [2 - 6 / 37 - 80]__________________________________________________ __________________*4,1* / *54,8*
- LY: *2,4* / *33* % [0,6 - 36 / 10 - 50]__________________________________________________ _________________*2,7* / *35,6*
- MO: *0,6* / *8,6* % [0 - 0,9 / 0 - 12]__________________________________________________ __________________*0,5* / *7,1*
- EO: *0,2* / *2,1* % [0 - 7 / 0 - 7]__________________________________________________ _____________________*0,1* / *1,8*
- BA: *0* / *0,5* % [0 - 0,2 / 0 - 2,5]__________________________________________________ ____________________*0,1* / *0,7*
HEMOGLOBIN: *14,9* gr/dl [14 - 18]__________________________________________________ ________*13,6*________*15,6*
HEMATOCRIT: *45,3* % [42 - 52]__________________________________________________ __________*44,1*________*45,5*
MCV: *87,5* femtol [82 - 98]__________________________________________________ ______________*84,8*________*85,2*
MCH: *28,8* picogr. [27 - 31]__________________________________________________ _____________*26,2*________*29,2*
MCHC: *32,9* gr/dl [32 - 36]__________________________________________________ ______________*30,8*________*34,3*
RDW: *13,5* % [11,6 - 16]__________________________________________________ ___________________________*14*
GRAN-NEUTROPHILS: *55,8* % [37 -80]__________________________________________________ _____*60,7*________*54,8*
GRAN-EOSINOPHILS: *2,1* % [0,0 - 7]__________________________________________________ ______*1,9*_________*1,8*
GRAN-BASOPHILS: *0,5* % [0,0 - 2,5]__________________________________________________ ______*0,7*_________*0,7*
LYMPHOCYTES: *33,0* % [10 - 50]__________________________________________________ ________*28,4*________*35,6*
MONOCYTES: *8,6* % [0,0 - 12]__________________________________________________ ___________*8,3*_________*7,1*
PLATELETS: *163000* /mmc [150000 - 400000]________________________________________________*336000*_____*164000*
PCT: *0,12* % [0,1 - 1]__________________________________________________ ______________________________*0,12*
MPV: *7,3* fl [5 - 10]__________________________________________________ ________________________________*7,2*
PDW: *17,4* % [12 - 18]__________________________________________________ _____________________________*18,5*

*HEART, KIDNEYS, LIVER, PANCREAS, PROSTATE & INFECTIVITY*
GLYCEMIA (basal): *90* mg/dl [70 - 110]__________________________________________________ ________________*98*

QUICK PROTHROMBIN TIME: *13,7* s_________________________________________________ ____________________*13,1*
PROTHROMBIN ACTIVITY: *69,6* % [70-130]__________________________________________________ ____________*86*
INR: *1,18*__________________________________________________ ________________________________________*1,09*
APTT: *27,5* s_________________________________________________ ______________________________________*27,8*
FIBRINOGEN: *185* mg/dl [180 - 350]__________________________________________________ __________________*184,7*
HOMOCYSTEINE: *10* mcmoli/l [6 - 15]__________________________________________________ _________________*9,5*
MYOGLOBIN: *26* ng/ml [10 - 46]__________________________________________________ ______________________*38*

AZOTEMIA: *49* mg/dl [15-40]__________________________*62*__________*57*______________________*56*__________*53*______________*52,8*
CREATININE: *1,2* mg/dl [0,8 - 1,3]_____________________*1,2*__________*1,2*______________________*1,3*_________*1,3*
HYPERURICEMIA: *5,9* mg/dl [3,5 - 7,2]__________________________________________________ ________________*5,5*

CHOLESTEROL TTL: *168* mg/dl [140 - 220]______________*179*_________*205*______________________*232*________*194*
CHOLESTEROL VLDL: *33* mg/dl [20 - 40]__________________________________________________ _______________*30*
CHOLESTEROL LDL: *105* mg/dl [< 150]__________________*157*_________*199*_____________________*202*_________*129*_____________*101*
CHOLESTEROL HDL: *41* mg/dl [> 40]____________________*13*__________*11*_______________________*13*__________*45*
INDEX RISK HDL: *4,1* [till 5]___________________________*13,76*_______*19,2*_____________________*17,8*________*4,3*
APO A1: *185* mg/dl [115 - 220]__________________________________________________ ______________________*190*
APO B: *77* mg/dl [55 - 125]__________________________________________________ __________________________*79*
RATIO B/A1 APO: *0,41* [0,35 - 1]__________________________________________________ _____________________*0,41*
TRIGLYCERIDES: *95* mg/dl [< 150]__________________________________________________ ____________________*104*

PHOSPHATASE ALCALINE: *71* u/ltr [50 - 136]__________________________________________________ ___________*72*
BILIRUBIN TTL: *1,98* mg/dl [0,2-1]_____________________*0,83*________*0,78*_________________________________*0,93*____________*1,54*
BILIRUBIN DIRECT: *0,22* mg/dl [0,05 - 0,3]______________*0,1*__________*0,1*__________________________________*0,1*_____________*0,53*
BILIRUBIN INDIRECT: *1,76* mg/dl [till 0,7]________________*0,73*________*0,68*_________________________________*0,83*____________*1,01*
TRANSAMINASE GOT/AST: *21* u/ltr [15 - 37]_____________*55*__________*50*_______________________*46*_________*28*______________*58*
TRANSAMINASE GPT/ALT: *41* u/ltr [30 - 65]_____________*86*__________*66*_______________________*95*__________*71*______________*77*
GAMMA (YGT): *28* u/ltr [15 - 85]______________________*29*__________*28*_______________________*26*__________*40*
FERRITIN: *124,5* ng/ml [24 - 336]__________________________________________________ ____________________*124*

LIPASE: *236* u/ltr [114 - 284]__________________________________________________ ________________________*298*____________*216*
AMYLASE: *62* u/ltr [25 - 115]_________________________*55*__________*63*_______________________*64*__________*75*_____________*76*

LDH: *160* u/ltr [100 - 190]__________________________________________________ __________________________*155*
CPK MB: *200* u/ltr [35 - 232]__________________________________________________ ________________________*230*
CK NAK: *150* u/l [till 167]__________________________________________________ ___________________________*165*
PROTIDES TTL: *7,4* gr/dl [6,4 - 8,2]__________________________________________________ _______*7,8*_________*7,7*
ALBUMIN: *59,1* % [51 - 63,3]__________________________________________________ ____________*60,3*________*63,1*
ALFA 1: *2,9* % [2,2 - 4,3]__________________________________________________ _______________*2,4*_________*2,3*
ALFA 2: *10,1* % [9,5 - 14]__________________________________________________ ______________*12,6*________*8,5*
BETA: *9,6* % [10-14,5]__________________________________________________ _________________*11,3*________*9,3*
GAMMA: *18,3* % [12 - 20]__________________________________________________ _______________*13,4*________*16,8*
A/G RATIO: *1,44* [1,0 - 1,7]__________________________________________________ _____________*1,52*________*1,71*

PSA: *0,64* ng/ml [till 4]__________________________________________________ _________________*0,39*_________*0,58*
PSA FREE: *0,22*__________________________________________________ ____________________________________*0,24*
PSA FREE/TTL: *0,40* [>0,15]__________________________________________________ _________________________*0,41*
PAP: *4,8* u/ltr [<= 4,7]__________________________________________________ ______________________________*5,1*

IGG: *1447* mg/dl [681 - 1648]__________________________________________________ ________________________*1455*
IGA: *304* mg/dl [87 - 474]__________________________________________________ ___________________________*321*
IGD: *50* u/ml [till 100]__________________________________________________ _______________________________*57*
IGM: *99* mg/dl [48 - 312]__________________________________________________ ____________________________*97*
IGE (prist): *37,47* iu/ml [1,31 - 165,3]__________________________________________________ _________________*39,77*

HIV-Ab (1+2): *0,16 non-react* u/cutoff [<0,9]__________________________________________________ __________*0,18 non-react*
HCV-Ab: *0,13 non-react* u/cutoff [<0,9]__________________________________________________ _______________*0,12 non-react*
HBS-Ag: *0,37 non-react* u/cutoff [<0,9]__________________________________________________ _______________*0,39 non-react*
HAV-Ab (IgT): *>85 react* miu/ml [<35]__________________________________________________ _________________*>85 react*
HAV-Ab (IgM): *0,08 non-react* u/cutoff [<0,9]__________________________________________________ __________*0,07 non-react*
TAS: *110* ui/ml [0 - 166]__________________________________________________ ____________________________*111*
VDRL: *negative* [negative]__________________________________________________ ___________________________*negative*
CRP: *2* mg/dl [till 5]__________________________________________________ _________________________________*2,1*
REUMA TEST: *<20* iu/ml [<20]__________________________________________________ ________________________*<20*
VES: *5* mm/h [till 15]__________________________________________________ ________________________________*5*

*VITAMINS & ELECTROLYTES*
VITAMIN A: *779,2* mcg/l [300-650]__________________________________________________ ___________________*692,1*
VITAMIN E: *12,6* mg/ltr [5 - 20]__________________________________________________ ______________________*100*
VITAMIN C: *0,9* mg/ml [0,5-1,5]__________________________________________________ ______________________*1,2*
VITAMIN B12: *587* pg/ml [179 - 1162]__________________________________________________ _________________*787*
VITAMIN D3: *60* ng/ml [10-45]__________________________________________________ _______________________*40*
VITAMIN H: *82* ng/ml [70-100]__________________________________________________ _______________________*90*
VITAMIN K: *22* mcg/ml [15-30]__________________________________________________ _______________________*26*
VITAMIN PP: *0,7* mg/ml [0,5-0,8]__________________________________________________ _____________________*0,7*

SODIUM: *142* meq/l [136 - 145]__________________________________________________ ______________________*139*
POTASSIUM: *4,0* meq/l [3,5 - 5,1]__________________________________________________ ____________________*4,4*
CALCIUM: *9,0* mg/dl [8,5 - 10,1]__________________________________________________ ______________________*9,1*
MAGNESIUM: *2,0* mg/dl [1,8 - 2,4]__________________________________________________ ____________________*2,2*
PHOSPHORUS: *3,7* mg/dl [2,7 - 4,5]__________________________________________________ ___________________*4,3*
IRON: *148* mcg/dl [35 - 150]__________________________________________________ _________________________*96*
ZINC: *103* mcg/dl [80 - 125]__________________________________________________ _________________________*132*
CHLORINE: *103* meq/l [98 - 107]__________________________________________________ ______________________*99*
COPPER: *88* ku/l [76 - 153]__________________________________________________ __________________________*88*

*HORMONAL*
GASTRIN: *31* pg/ml [28-125]__________________________________________________ _________________________*33*
MELATONIN: *47* pg/ml [20 - 85]__________________________________________________ ______________________*50*
C-PEPTIDE: *1,2* ng/ml [0,78  1,89]__________________________________________________ ___________________*1,25*
INSULIN : *3,34* micru/ml [1,9 - 23]______________________*3,6*_________*3,04*_________________________________*2,39*
GLUCAGON: *55* pg/ml [40-130]__________________________________________________ _______________________*55*
IGF-1: *190* ng/ml [96 - 424]__________________________*184*_________*163*__________________________________*392*
ACTH: *20* pg/dl [till 50]__________________________________________________ _____________________________*21*
CORTISOL: *12,53* mg/dl [8,7 - 22,4]__________________________________________________ ______*13,64*_______*18,7*
FT3: *3,48* pg/ml [2,2 - 4,7]__________________________________________________ ______________*4,82*_______*3,13*
FT4: *1,26* ng/dl [0,8 - 2]__________________________________________________ ________________*1,29*_______*1,16*
MSH: *9,7* pmol/l [7,9 - 14,4]__________________________________________________ _________________________*9,8*
HTG: *7,65* ng/ml [0,0 - 35]__________________________________________________ __________________________*6,61*
TBG: *18* mcg/ml [15 - 32]__________________________________________________ ___________________________*18,6*
TSH: *2,92* micru/ml [0,34 - 5,6]__________________________________________________ __________*3,88*________*3,92*
FSH: *4,16* miu/ml [1,27 - 19,26]_______________________*2,09*________*2,56*_____________________*1,42*________*3,9*
LH: *3,80* miu/ml [1,24 - 8,62]_________________________*2,19*________*2,58*_____________________*2,61*________*4,84*
PREGNENOLONE: *155* ng/ml [10 - 230]__________________________________________________ ________________*160*
ANDROSTENEDIONE: *1,77* ng/ml [0,3 - 3,1]__________________________________________________ ____________*1,79*
ALDOSTERONE: *180* pg/ml [10 - 160]__________________________________________________ _________________*184*
DHEA: *7,3* ng/ml [2,5 - 9,5]__________________________________________________ _________________________*6,2*
DHEAS: *191* mcg/dl [106 - 464]_______________________*209*_________*209,6*________________________________*221,6*
DHT: *71* ng/ml [31 - 146]__________________________________________________ ___________________________*70*
TESTOSTERONE TTL: *3,86* ng/ml [1,75 - 7,81]___________*0,72*________*0,61*_________________________________*6,29*
TESTOSTERONE FREE: *11,7* pg/ml [8 - 47]______________*5,2*_________*4,8*_______________________*9,6*_________*13,5*
SHBG: *38* pg/ml [13 - 71]____________________________*10*__________*<0,1*_________________________________*36*
ESTRADIOL 17-BETA: *36* pg/ml [<20 - 47]__________________________________________________ __*9*__________*30*
PROGESTERONE: *0,93* ng/ml [0,14 - 2,06]__________________________________________________ _____________*0,87*
PRL: *9,88* ng/ml [2,64 - 13,13]__________________________________________________ ___________*12,78*______*13,05*
HGH: *0,2* ng/ml [0,0 - 10]____________________________*<0,1*________*<0,1*_________________________________*0,3*

*URINE*
COLOUR: *straw-coloured*____________________________*straw-coloured*____________________________________*straw-coloured*
APPEARANCE: *lightly opalescent* [limpid]_______________*lightly opalescent*__________________________________*limpid*
PH REACTION: *5,5* [5 - 6,5]___________________________*6*________________________________________________*5,5*
SPECIFIC WEIGHT: *1020* [1015 - 1028]_________________*1016*_____________________________________________*1018*
PROTEINS: *none* mg/dl [0,0 - 10]______________________*none*_____________________________________________*none*
HEMOGLOBIN: *none* [none]___________________________*present +*_________________________________________*none*
GLUCOSE: *none* gr/litre [0,0 - 0,2]_____________________*none*_____________________________________________*none*
KETONE BODIES: *none* [none]_________________________*none*_____________________________________________*none*
UROBILINOGEN: *none* mg/dl [0,0 - 0,2]_________________*none*_____________________________________________*none*
BILIARY PIGMENTS: *none* [none]______________________*none*_____________________________________________*none*
NITRITE: *none* [none]_______________________________*none*_____________________________________________*none*

*FAECES*
SHAPE: *solid* [homogeneous]__________________________________________________ ________________________*caprina*
CONSISTENCY: *compost* [poltacea]__________________________________________________ __________________*solid*
COLOUR:* brown* [brown]__________________________________________________ ____________________________*brown*
ODOUR: *sui generis* [sui generis]__________________________________________________ _____________________*sui generis*
MUCUS: *absent* [absent]__________________________________________________ ___________________________*absent*
BLOOD: *absent* [absent]__________________________________________________ ____________________________*absent*
PH REACTION: *7*__________________________________________________ ___________________________________*7,4*
PARASITOLOGICAL: *negative* [negative]__________________________________________________ _______________*negative*
SALMONELLA: *negative* [negative]__________________________________________________ ___________________*negative*
HELICOBACTER PYLORI: *negative* [negative]__________________________________________________ ___________*negative*
GIARDIASIS: *negative* [negative]__________________________________________________ ____________________*negative*

*SPERM*
VOLUME: *2,8* ml [>= 2]__________________________________________________ ______*2,5*____________________________________*2,6*
PH: *8,1* [7,2-8]__________________________________________________ ____________*7,2*_____________________________________*7,3*
APPEARANCE: *own*__________________________________________________ _________*own*____________________________________*own*
VISCOSITY: *increased +* [within limits]__________________________________________*within limits*_____________________________*within limits*
FLUIDIFICATION 45': *finely irregular* [physiologic]_________________________________*physiologic*______________________________*physiologic*
SPERMATOZOON CONCENTRATION: *89.000.000* /ml [>= 20.000.000]__________________*42.000.000*______________________________*85.000.000*
EJACULATE SPERMATOZOON COUNT: *249.200.000* [>= 40.000.000]__________________*105.000.000*_____________________________*228.000.000*
2ND HOUR MOTILITY: *60* % [>= 50 %]___________________________________________*45*______________________________________*57*
TYPICAL MORPHOLOGIC SPERMATOZOON: *30* % [>= 35 %]__________________________*28*______________________________________*35*
ATYPICAL MORPHOLOGIC SPERMATOZOON: *70* %__________________________________*72*______________________________________*71*
LEUCOCYTE: *300.000* /ml [<= 1.000.000]________________________________________*500.000*_________________________________*335.000*
ERYTHROCYTE: *absent* [absent/rare]____________________________________________*absent*__________________________________*absent*
GERMINAL CELLS: *rare* [absent/rare]____________________________________________*present*_________________________________*absent*
EPITHELIAL CELLS: *rare* [absent/rare]___________________________________________*absent*__________________________________*absent*
SPERMAGGLUTINATION ZONES: *rare* [absent/rare]_________________________________*absent*__________________________________*absent*

----------


## BJJ

A special and deep thanks to the following members (in order of appearance) who contributed in different ways to help me throughout my very first cycle.

*terraj* (aas proper decision)
*D7M* (thread reliability)
*ythrashin* (criticism)
*Big* (thread reliability)
*WARMachine* (pct)
**El Diablo** (thread reliabilty)
*marcus300* (pct)
*swifto* (pct)
*Merc.* (gsh protocol)
*Narkissos* (thread reliability)

Furthermore, I thank indeed all the members who helped me when I was thinking to run a first cycle with testosterone enanthate . There are so many...

With this post my thread comes to its natural end but I will be always available to clarify what needed on the whole of the data I posted here.
Salutateme 'a soreta...

----------


## Steroidman99

> For those interested in the final blood work results, the lab is giving me a hard time but hopefully before Friday...!
> Just be patient a bit more.
> 
> PS
> However, I already know both test total and free test values are higher than before the cycle so, the addition of Clomid in my pct, should have been a right idea.
> There is a but... my PRL is also higher than before!


So you think that Nolva/Clomid increased your test from 0,61 to 6,29, i.e. almost twice above the level before cycle? That's hard to believe, really... The last time I used Nolva (after a 8-week Winstrol +T-bol cycle) I lost everything I gained within 2 weeks after the cycle. It didn't help at all. Hence I don't want to take this stuff anymore. I think it simply doesn't help in me, if I run some steroid longer than 6 weeks in high doses.

----------


## BJJ

> So you think that Nolva/Clomid increased your test from 0,61 to 6,29, i.e. almost twice above the level before cycle? That's hard to believe, really... *The last time I used Nolva (after a 8-week Winstrol+T-bol cycle) I lost everything I gained within 2 weeks after the cycle*. It didn't help at all. Hence I don't want to take this stuff anymore. I think it simply doesn't help in me, if I run some steroid longer than 6 weeks in high doses.


How was your diet?
In this thread, almost no one understood that the real deal in my case was, surely a good genetics predisposition for Oxandrolone, but at the basement a proper diet (how to combine what and when to eat those food combination).
If you lost everything within two weeks after such a cycle, I believe you should blame your diet or perhaps the drugs you have taken in your pct were not what you thought they were, so your HPTA could not restore in a timely manner.

In any case, how do you account my test level now compared to before the cycle, if you hardly believe it increased due to the sinergy of both nolva and clomid?

----------


## BJJ

IGF-1 lowered during cycle but doubled after PCT!
Any clues about that?
HGH increased too about 50%.

IGF-1: *190* ng/ml [96 - 424]__________________________184_________163_________ ________________________*392*
HGH: *0,2* ng/ml [0,0 - 10]____________________________<0,1________<0,1______ ___________________________*0,3*

----------


## Steroidman99

Hello, I just finished my 8-week Anavar cycle. I took steroid powder dissolved in sunflower oil, and since my applicator turned out to be very inaccurate, I actually took 70 mg/day instead of 50 mg/day most of the time. Today I got lab results that were quite surprising for me.

S-ALT 0.76 ukat/l 0.05-0.85 (-*-) pre-cycle: 0.47
S-AST 0.75 ukat/l 0.05-0.89 (-*-) pre-cycle: 0.41
S-GGT 0.14 ukat/l 0.05-1.13 (-*-)
S-Cholesterol 6.70 mmol/l 2.9-5 (---)* pre-cycle: 4.50
S-LDLcholesterol 5.48 mmol/l 1.2-3 (---)*
S-HDLcholesterol 0.51 mmol/l 1-2.1 *(---)
S-Testosteron 0.39 nmol/l 9.9-27.8 *(---)

I feared liver toxicity, but surprisingly, my liver enzymes are still within the normal range. My cholesterol is sh*tty, but I expected even worse numbers. What shocked me, however, is my testosterone . I have never measured it before, so I can't compare it to my "normal" values. The units nmol/l confuse me a lot, too. 

I may be wrong, but 0.39 nmol/l should equal to 112.5 ng/l. However, it doesn't fit the reference range that is one order higher. (The average value for young Caucasian men is ca. 550 ng/l, 200-800 ng/l.) I rather suppose that there is some mistake and the real number is 11.25 ng/l, which would mean virtually 100% suppression.

----------


## BJJ

> Hello, I just finished my 8-week Anavar cycle. I took steroid powder dissolved in sunflower oil, and since my applicator turned out to be very inaccurate, I actually took 70 mg/day instead of 50 mg/day most of the time. Today I got lab results that were quite surprising for me.
> 
> S-ALT 0.76 ukat/l 0.05-0.85 (-*-) pre-cycle: 0.47
> S-AST 0.75 ukat/l 0.05-0.89 (-*-) pre-cycle: 0.41
> S-GGT 0.14 ukat/l 0.05-1.13 (-*-)
> S-Cholesterol 6.70 mmol/l 2.9-5 (---)* pre-cycle: 4.50
> S-LDLcholesterol 5.48 mmol/l 1.2-3 (---)*
> S-HDLcholesterol 0.51 mmol/l 1-2.1 *(---)
> S-Testosteron 0.39 nmol/l 9.9-27.8 *(---)
> ...


Before going any deeper, when on your 56 days of cycle you took that BW?
What day I mean?

----------


## Steroidman99

> Before going any deeper, when on your 56 days of cycle you took that BW?
> What day I mean?


What is BW? A lab test? 

I started the cycle on December 7th, with low doses 30-40 mg/day (=actually 42-56 mg/day) and later increased the dosage up to 50 mg/day (=70 mg/day) during the 2nd week. I went as high as 55 mg/day (=80 mg/day) during the 4th week (December 26th-January 1st), but I saw no difference. I also used creatine throughout the whole cycle.

Curiously, my strength gains stopped after mere 5 weeks and although I further gained some weight, it must have been only water, because my face started to get a markedly puffy look. I gradually lowered the doses during the 8th week and I "officially" finished the cycle on January 31st. However, considering that I was waiting for S-4, which I wanted to use for PCT, I still must use 10 mg/day to prevent expectable crash. Thus, I have been actually running my 9th week on Anavar , albeit on a very small dose. 

I was in the hospital today (Friday, February 5th) and they sent me the results of the lab tests several hours ago. Unfortunately, I haven't received S-4 yet, but when I see my test levels, I think I am rather ripe for HCG . 

Note: I already know, where's the problem with the testosterone values. I confused ng/l with ng/dl. ng/dl is the correct value, so my test levels are 11.25 ng/dl - virtually non existent (roughly 2% of the average level of men of my age - 36 years!). I expected some suppression (with 80 mg/day, I could expect roughly 2/3 suppression), but this really took my breath. After my last 8-week cycle on stanozolol and T-bol (April-May 2009), I lost everything I gained within mere 2 weeks post-cycle, even on Tamoxifen . Now it is completely clear, where the problem is.

----------


## Steroidman99

> How was your diet?
> In this thread, almost no one understood that the real deal in my case was, surely a good genetics predisposition for Oxandrolone, but at the basement a proper diet (how to combine what and when to eat those food combination).
> If you lost everything within two weeks after such a cycle, I believe you should blame your diet or perhaps the drugs you have taken in your pct were not what you thought they were, so your HPTA could not restore in a timely manner.
> 
> In any case, how do you account my test level now compared to before the cycle, if you hardly believe it increased due to the sinergy of both nolva and clomid?


The lose of my gains after my previous 8-week cycle was very surprising, because before (summer 2008) I ran Winstrol +T-bol for 6 weeks, and I even went up with my strength during my PCT (Tamoxifen +creatine). 

I really don't know, what made difference. In both cases, I used Tamoxifen from the same reliable source. I suspect that after the 8-week cycle I may have used some sh*tty creatine (It turns out that some sorts of creatine I used during the recent years were useless sh*ts that didn't work at all - and I mistakenly ascribed it to my momentary fatigue.) 

Anyway, I don't believe that Tamoxifen would be able to help me with my virtually zero test level. I think about ordering HCG . 

In any case, the recovery of your testosterone levels is really admirable.

----------


## BJJ

> The lose of my gains after my previous 8-week cycle was very surprising, because before (summer 2008) I ran Winstrol +T-bol for 6 weeks, and I even went up with my strength during my PCT (Tamoxifen +creatine). 
> 
> I really don't know, what made difference. In both cases, I used Tamoxifen from the same reliable source. I suspect that after the 8-week cycle I may have used some sh*tty creatine (It turns out that some sorts of creatine I used during the recent years were useless sh*ts that didn't work at all - and I mistakenly ascribed it to my momentary fatigue.) 
> 
> *Anyway, I don't believe that Tamoxifen would be able to help me with my virtually zero test level. I think about ordering HCG . 
> 
> In any case, the recovery of your testosterone levels is really admirable.*


It was because I used Clomiphene with and their sinergy made the deal.
In my opinion you do not need HCG after an Oxandrolone only cycle. Do not complicate your life because with HCG you need an AI also. I presume the last thing you want is to raise your estrogens after your cycle!!!
Have you got any testicular shrinkage? I guess absolutely not, then I would just start a proper pct, very similar to the one I took and see no reasons for you not to recover your test.

BW = Blood Work

----------


## Steroidman99

> It was because I used Clomiphene with and their sinergy made the deal.
> In my opinion you do not need HCG after an Oxandrolone only cycle. Do not complicate your life because with HCG you need an AI also. I presume the last thing you want is to raise your estrogens after your cycle!!!
> Have you got any testicular shrinkage? I guess absolutely not, then I would just start a proper pct, very similar to the one I took and see no reasons for you not to recover your test.
> 
> BW = Blood Work


Well...I have ever heard that combining Clomid with Tamoxifen is nonsense. :Icon Rolleyes: 

Personally I would like to stay away from Tamoxifen not only because it doesn't seem effective in me, but also because of some problematic health issues that are tied with this stuff (e.g. possible liver cancer after pro-longed use). Exemestane would be much better, but it is pretty expensive even from Chinese sources (I would have to buy 20 grams at once).

----------


## BJJ

*AGE__________MALE_______________AGE_______________FEMALE

7-9__________< 9 ng/dL______________________________< 15 ng/dL
10-11________2-57 ng/dL_____________________________2-42 ng/dL
12-13________7-747 ng/dL____________________________6-64 ng/dL
14-15________33-585 ng/dL___________________________9-49 ng/dL
16-17________185-886 ng/dL__________________________8-63 ng/dL
18-39________300-1080 ng/dL______18-30______________11-59 ng/dL
40-59________350-890 ng/dL_______31-40______________11-56 ng/dL
> 60_________300-720 ng/dL_______41-51______________9-55 ng/dL
________________________________Postmenopause______6-25 ng/dL*

----------


## BJJ

> Well...*I have ever heard that combining Clomid with Tamoxifen is nonsense*.
> 
> Personally I would like to stay away from Tamoxifen not only because it doesn't seem effective in me, but also because of some problematic health issues that are tied with this stuff (e.g. possible liver cancer after pro-longed use). Exemestane would be much better, but it is pretty expensive even from Chinese sources (I would have to buy 20 grams at once).


We speak about three weeks!
You tried AAS but do not want to try Clomiphene?
Combining Clomid and Nolvadex make sense indeed because one acts differently from the other, and their sinergy is the key.

----------


## BJJ

> What is BW? A lab test? 
> 
> I started the cycle on December 7th, with low doses 30-40 mg/day (=actually 42-56 mg/day) and later increased the dosage up to 50 mg/day (=70 mg/day) during the 2nd week. I went as high as 55 mg/day (=80 mg/day) during the 4th week (December 26th-January 1st), but I saw no difference. I also used creatine throughout the whole cycle.
> 
> Curiously, my strength gains stopped after mere 5 weeks and although I further gained some weight, it must have been only water, because my face started to get a markedly puffy look. I gradually lowered the doses during the 8th week and I "officially" finished the cycle on January 31st. However, considering that I was waiting for S-4, which I wanted to use for PCT, I still must use 10 mg/day to prevent expectable crash. Thus, I have been actually running my 9th week on Anavar , albeit on a very small dose. 
> 
> I was in the hospital today (Friday, February 5th) and they sent me the results of the lab tests several hours ago. Unfortunately, I haven't received S-4 yet, but when I see my test levels, I think I am rather ripe for HCG . 
> 
> Note: I already know, where's the problem with the testosterone values. I confused ng/l with ng/dl. ng/dl is the correct value, so my test levels are 11.25 ng/dl - virtually non existent (roughly 2% of the average level of men of my age - 36 years!). I expected some suppression (with 80 mg/day, I could expect roughly 2/3 suppression), but this really took my breath. *After my last 8-week cycle on stanozolol and T-bol (April-May 2009), I lost everything I gained within mere 2 weeks post-cycle, even on Tamoxifen. Now it is completely clear, where the problem is.*


BW means blood work.

To me is normal to see your Test level so low after a cycle of OXA only.
The right PCT is the key, I believe.

*You mean in spite of the use of Tamoxifen your test levels kept being low and that is the reason why you lost all of your gains?*

1. Are you sure your diet was in check?
2. Are you sure you were really taking Tamoxifen ?
3. Why did not you get a BW of Test Free, DHT and PRL, at least?

----------


## Steroidman99

> *AGE__________MALE_______________AGE_______________FEMALE
> 
> 7-9__________< 9 ng/dL______________________________< 15 ng/dL
> 10-11________2-57 ng/dL_____________________________2-42 ng/dL
> 12-13________7-747 ng/dL____________________________6-64 ng/dL
> 14-15________33-585 ng/dL___________________________9-49 ng/dL
> 16-17________185-886 ng/dL__________________________8-63 ng/dL
> 18-39________300-1080 ng/dL______18-30______________11-59 ng/dL
> 40-59________350-890 ng/dL_______31-40______________11-56 ng/dL
> ...


Thanks. Now I know that I am a postmenopausal female!
 :Smilie:

----------


## Steroidman99

> BW means blood work.
> 
> To me is normal to see your Test level so low after a cycle of OXA only.
> The right PCT is the key, I believe.
> 
> *You mean in spite of the use of Tamoxifen your test levels kept being low and that is the reason why you lost all of your gains?*
> 
> 1. Are you sure your diet was in check?
> 2. Are you sure you were really taking Tamoxifen ?
> 3. Why did not you get a BW of Test Free, DHT and PRL, at least?


I expected worse numbers from liver and cholesterol tests, but not this testosterone . That's shocking for me. Even HIV patiens, who used 80 mg/day for 12 weeks had only 66.5% suppression on the average. Mine is 95+ %. 

As for your further questions, I have never measured my blood levels until December last year. I reckoned with that Tamoxifen would be sufficient for PCT with Winstrol /T-bol, and that I wouldn't run an oral-only cycle more than twice, so I hadn't bothered with blood work. Unfortunately, I had to delay my planned third, transdermal cycle with boldenone and nandrolone , because I could not get any transdermal gel in time. Hence I decided to try Anavar instead.

----------


## BJJ

> Thanks. Now I know that *I am* a *postmenopausal female!*



 :Haha:  :Haha:  :Haha:

----------


## BJJ

> I expected worse numbers from liver and cholesterol tests, but not this testosterone . That's shocking for me. Even HIV patiens, who used 80 mg/day for 12 weeks had only 66.5% suppression on the average. Mine is 95+ %. 
> 
> As for your further questions, I have never measured my blood levels until December last year. I reckoned with that Tamoxifen would be sufficient for PCT with Winstrol/T-bol, and that I wouldn't run an oral-only cycle more than twice, so I hadn't bothered with blood work. Unfortunately, I had to delay my planned third, transdermal cycle with boldenone and nandrolone, because I could not get any transdermal gel in time. Hence I decided to try Anavar instead.


How do you plan to get back on track your testosterone level?

----------


## Steroidman99

> How do you plan to get back on track your testosterone level?


I want to try S-4, 20 mg/day for at least 30 days. At this dosage, it shouldn't be suppressive and at the same time, it should be slightly anabolic . After those 30 days, I will check my blood values and decide, if it is of any use for PCT. Hopefully it arrives next week. Otherwise I would be in trouble and I would have to order HCG . I don't have access to exemestane, unfortunately. 

Well, I forgot one thing in the connection with my first cycle: During the PCT I also used Clenbuterol , although only briefly - 7 days on+7 days off+3 days on. I couldn't stand permanent cramps and shaking of the whole body. Although opinions of Clenbuterol differ, it may have had some anti-catabolic effect.

----------


## BJJ

> I want to try S-4, 20 mg/day for at least 30 days. At this dosage, it shouldn't be suppressive and at the same time, it should be slightly anabolic . After those 30 days, I will check my blood values and decide, if it is of any use for PCT. Hopefully it arrives next week. Otherwise I would be in trouble and I would have to order HCG . I don't have access to exemestane, unfortunately. 
> 
> Well, I forgot one thing in the connection with my first cycle: During the PCT I also used Clenbuterol, although only briefly - 7 days on+7 days off+3 days on. I couldn't stand permanent cramps and shaking of the whole body. Although opinions of Clenbuterol differ, it may have had some anti-catabolic effect.


I am really struggling why you do not want to take into account clomiphene.
Anyway, I wish you a prompt recover.

PS
Watch out a possible estrogen raise with HCG. Keep on hand some AI.

----------


## Steroidman99

> I am really struggling why you do not want to take into account clomiphene.


Too expensive!

----------


## BJJ

> Too expensive!


 :Hmmmm:  :Hmmmm:  :Hmmmm:  :Hmmmm:  :Hmmmm:

----------


## Steroidman99

I started to take S-4 on Thursday. I wanted to take 20 mg/day, but during the last weeks the supplier had unexpectedly changed the concentration of his S-4, from 50 mg/ml to 100 mg/ml. Since the vial has no label, I mistakenly took 40 mg/day yesterday. (Damn!!!) Luckily, the volume seemed suspiciously small to me and I rather looked at his site again! 

Next month I will post my lab results here again. I would like to know, if S-4 really isn't suppressive at 20 mg/day, as lab test suggest.

----------


## russiandave

great thread
its not very common to see a thread where people are supportive of an oral only / var only cycle. 

i did read another guys thread where he is doing hgh and var and claiming to get great results.

i always wonder if hgh and var would be fine together even without test and people are just repeating what others have said before them, or if its really not the best idea. its really hard to tell. 

good thread, keep up with all the updates

----------


## Steroidman99

> great thread
> its not very common to see a thread where people are supportive of an oral only / var only cycle. 
> 
> i did read another guys thread where he is doing hgh and var and claiming to get great results.
> 
> i always wonder if hgh and var would be fine together even without test and people are just repeating what others have said before them, or if its really not the best idea. its really hard to tell. 
> 
> good thread, keep up with all the updates


The Anavar cycle has been my best steroid investment so far! But everybody is different...

----------


## over812

Thanks BJJ! I've been interested in var for a long time and have been reading through all the posts I can find here in an effort to educate myself before I make any decisions. This is a great thread!

----------


## BJJ

> I started to take S-4 on Thursday. I wanted to take 20 mg/day, but during the last weeks the supplier had unexpectedly changed the concentration of his S-4, from 50 mg/ml to 100 mg/ml. Since the vial has no label, I mistakenly took 40 mg/day yesterday. (Damn!!!) Luckily, the volume seemed suspiciously small to me and I rather looked at his site again! 
> 
> Next month I will post my lab results here again. I would like to know, if S-4 really isn't suppressive at 20 mg/day, as lab test suggest.


Good Luck




> great thread
> its not very common to see a thread where people are supportive of an oral only / var only cycle. 
> 
> i did read another guys thread where he is doing hgh and var and claiming to get great results.
> 
> i always wonder if hgh and var would be fine together even without test and people are just repeating what others have said before them, or if its really not the best idea. its really hard to tell. 
> 
> good thread, keep up with all the updates


Thanks.
Oxa & HGH? Maybe in my 50s...




> Thanks BJJ! I've been interested in var for a long time and have been reading through all the posts I can find here in an effort to *educate myself before I make any decisions*. This is a great thread!


Good call and thanks.

----------


## russiandave

How did you feel
as a general rule. did you feel like your test levels were down?

----------


## BJJ

> How did you feel
> as a general rule. did you feel like your test levels were down?


I felt fine throughout the cycle, as well as in PCT.

----------


## Steroidman99

> I felt fine throughout the cycle, as well as in PCT.



This is interesting, because I felt fine, too. Anavar gave me a very pleasant feeling of slight euphoria. However, it lasted only 5 weeks, i.e. exactly the same time, when Anavar worked. I suppose the receptors were already overloaded then and both its anabolic effect and the euphoria disappeared. 

During the following weeks I felt increasingly more and more suppressed, but still not as much as during a previous cycle with Winstrol . In fact, even now I don't feel any dramatic lethargy, although my testosterone levels are virtually zero... But I am still taking 5 mg Anavar/day together with S-4. I think that Anavar is more androgenic in this regard than Winstrol, i.e. it has some effect on libido. On the other hand, it is markedly less androgenic in the skin.

----------


## BJJ

> This is interesting, because I felt fine, too. Anavar gave me a very pleasant feeling *of slight euphoria*. However, it lasted only 5 weeks, i.e. exactly the same time, when Anavar worked. I suppose the receptors were already overloaded then and both its anabolic effect and the euphoria disappeared. 
> 
> During the following weeks I felt increasingly more and more suppressed, but still not as much as during a previous cycle with Winstrol. In fact, even now I don't feel any dramatic lethargy, although my testosterone levels are virtually zero... But I am still taking 5 mg Anavar/day together with S-4. I think that Anavar is more androgenic in this regard than Winstrol, i.e. it has some effect on libido. On the other hand, it is markedly less androgenic in the skin.


What do you mean by that exactly?

----------


## russiandave

Sorry If I somehow missed them, but are there any before and after pictures for this thread?

----------


## BJJ

> Sorry If I somehow missed them, but are there any before and after pictures for this thread?


Are you kidding me?
There were photos yes, but I took them off.

I left the ones that really matter, post 2.

----------


## russiandave

No I'm not kidding you. I saw the two you left but IMO they aren't the only ones that matter. Being able to see a persons body and muscle definition etc are as telling as the photos you left. Why did you take the other photos down?




> Are you kidding me?
> There were photos yes, but I took them off.
> 
> I left the ones that really matter, post 2.

----------


## BJJ

> No I'm not kidding you. I saw the two you left but IMO they aren't the only ones that matter. Being able to see a persons body and muscle definition etc are as telling as the photos you left. Why did you take the other photos down?


I disagree.
A photo can be deceptive, *numbers are never.
*
I took them out because I was receiving strange messages.

----------


## russiandave

And I disagree 
look numbers are nice but for most people here the proof is in the visual results as well.

Lol sorry to hear about the messages




> I disagree.
> A photo can be deceptive, *numbers are never.
> *
> I took them out because I was receiving strange messages.

----------


## BJJ

> And I disagree 
> look numbers are nice but for most people here the proof is in the visual results as well.
> 
> Lol sorry to hear about the messages


We both disagree.
We have something in common...  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## Someguy123

i dont recall seeing it covered. but whats the purpose of running proviron on a var only cycle?? var doesnt aromatize, so is it just for the small extra effect?? or this to make up any free testosterone , that might be shut down from the var??

----------


## BJJ

> i dont recall seeing it covered. but whats the purpose of running proviron on a var only cycle?? var doesnt aromatize, so is it just for the small extra effect?? or this to make up any free testosterone, that might be shut down from the var??


I would say both.

----------


## BJJ

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=424412

----------


## Vitruvius

Great thread. I´ve been following it pretty closely over the last few months. Do you have any recommendations on a substitude for proviron , if running a similar cycle to yours. (maybe masteron ?)

----------


## BJJ

> Great thread. I´ve been following it pretty closely over the last few months. Do you have any recommendations on a substitude for proviron, if running a similar cycle to yours. (maybe masteron?)


Yes, I think there is no other solution to substitute mesterolone than using drostanolone propionate .

----------


## grinderman

This thread is the thread that made me stop being a lurker and join up officially!! Thanks for this.

I'm really curious though, after so much information and painfully detailed stats that were carefully recorded and graciously logged on here; there are no pictures. Help a fellow man from the old country out - is there a way we could see any of the before/after pics? This is after all, the meatballs here and what we all aim for  :Smilie: 

BJJ - you put them up initially, any private links? (without sounding strange!)

----------


## BJJ

> This thread is the thread that made me stop being a lurker and join up officially!! Thanks for this.
> 
> I'm really curious though, after so much information and painfully detailed stats that were carefully recorded and graciously logged on here; there are no pictures. Help a fellow man from the old country out - is there a way we could see any of the before/after pics? This is after all, the meatballs here and what we all aim for 
> 
> BJJ - you put them up initially, any private links? (without sounding strange!)


Sorry but as already stated the pics posted were badly used and have no intention to go over that again.
Not all the members are here to share and learn, unfortunately.

Thanks for the kind words about the thread and glad you are not a lurker anymore.

----------


## russiandave

Hahahaaaaaa I told ya Bjj some people are ok with stats but most like to see before and after pictures.

----------


## grinderman

BJJ - I can't force you to put the pics up but i find it strange that you've gone to such effort to document everything yet there isn't even a blurred pic. You can make it small resolution of invert the colours to hide yourself if you like. 

I haven't read in this thread and maybe it would help so many posters asking for this one piece of info left; how were the pictures 'badly used'?

I've seen other forums and pics of posing before/after var.

Just wanted to understand why. Thanks!

----------


## MrBeat

Hey BJJJ

Appreciate your effort keeping such a detailed cycle log. Im thinking of doing my own anavar cycle soon and seeing the knowledge and research you seem to have done on the area I was wondring what you would think of adding CyX3 instead of the clenbuterol ?


CYX3 is: " (an oral blend of T3, Yohimbine and Clenbuterol)

Combines the synergistic fat burning power of beta adrenergic agonists) and alpha adrenergic antagonists (Yohimbine HCl), all to add the T3 characteristics of increase the metabolic rate by increasing Thyroid efficiency.

Clenbuterol - 37.5mcg

T3 - 25mcg

Yohimbine 5.4mg "


Any feedback on the matter would be good, whether you think its a good idea / or not.

Again thanks for the effort put into keeping such a detailed log.

----------


## BJJ

> Hey BJJJ
> 
> Appreciate your effort keeping such a detailed cycle log. Im thinking of doing my own anavar cycle soon and seeing the knowledge and research you seem to have done on the area I was wondring what you would think of adding CyX3 instead of the clenbuterol ?
> 
> 
> CYX3 is: " (an oral blend of T3, Yohimbine and Clenbuterol)
> 
> Combines the synergistic fat burning power of beta adrenergic agonists) and alpha adrenergic antagonists (Yohimbine HCl), all to add the T3 characteristics of increase the metabolic rate by increasing Thyroid efficiency.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the nice words.

Regarding your question, Oxandrolone can be run with either Mesterolone or Drostanolone Propionate in order to have a proper sinergy; this is what I would advise you to take into account.

I see no point in using Clenbuterol, T3 and Yohimbine all together since in order to use Oxandrolone one should be already lean and so being already with a good body fat % you just need to know how to eat to get ripped.

----------


## TheCamel

Another of your crazy logs man!!!
You really have time to dedicate to fill this data.
What's your occupation?

----------


## solidpaddy

Hey how didi the anavar effect your cardio during BJJ? Better or worse?

Thanks

----------


## BJJ

> Hey how didi the anavar effect your cardio during BJJ? Better or worse?
> 
> Thanks


A little improvement at the beginning.
Then, I noticed nothing particular anymore.
In any case, no worse.

----------


## solidpaddy

thanks,

Currently on a winny only and its messing with my cardio during kickboxing, chest tightness and racing heart beat for hours afterwards.

----------


## BJJ

> thanks,
> 
> Currently on a winny only and its messing with my cardio during kickboxing, chest tightness and racing heart beat for hours afterwards.


You are a kickboxer and running a winny only cycle, lol?

Watch out your tendons?

----------


## solidpaddy

> You are a kickboxer and running a winny only cycle, lol?
> 
> Watch out your tendons?


yeah, 

joints OK so far, loading up on omega 3, cissus, GS.......

----------


## grinderman

So BJJ, after all this extensive learning & experience you've just accomplished, what's the best PCT route as you said earlier you believe the right PCT is key to a var cycle. I thought just 2-4 weeks on nolva is ok but i see you've been mixing it up..
I've read about clomid causing blindness!? Isn't nolva safer?

others, please chime in too.

----------


## BJJ

> So BJJ, after all this extensive learning & experience you've just accomplished, what's the best PCT route as you said earlier you believe the right PCT is key to a var cycle. I thought just 2-4 weeks on nolva is ok but i see you've been mixing it up..
> I've read about clomid causing blindness!? Isn't nolva safer?
> 
> others, please chime in too.


I decide what PCT to run based on my blood work which I take before the cycle and 1 week before the end of the bulking period. I do not guess in blindness.

That being said, Oxandrolone should be stack with Mesterolone.
This sinergy would allow your LH values not to drop during the cycle and this could lead to a faster and easier PCT.

Tamoxifen only can be the solution even though its sinergy with clomiphene seemed to work better for me.

----------


## grinderman

Thanks BJJ. If your avata is you then i'm sold on var. You look like like a lean mean fighting machine!

One last one - diet is the biggest factor. Could you recommend any tools (on-line calculators?) or formulas to calculate calories?

I found this excel calculator brilliant! http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post500438281

----------


## BJJ

> Thanks BJJ. If your avata is you then i'm sold on var. You look like like a lean mean fighting machine!
> 
> One last one - diet is the biggest factor. Could you recommend any tools (on-line calculators?) or formulas to calculate calories?
> 
> I found this excel calculator brilliant! http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post500438281


I am lean not because of steroids lol.
Look at my picture before starting the first anavar only cycle.
I was lean too.

Diet is the key and yes you may use that excel sheet if you know it to be well setup.
In any case, I am sure you know the Kcal for each macro, if not be aware that protides and glucides = 4 Kcal per g, fats = 9 Kcal per g and alcohol = 7 Kcal per g. I am sure you do not need the last one, but if you drink a beer...

----------


## grinderman

Have you got any before var pictures to compare how lean you were?

This thread is so helpful. Thanks again!

----------


## BJJ

> Have you got any before var pictures to compare how lean you were?
> 
> This thread is so helpful. Thanks again!


Go in my profile page lol, the lonely picture in my album was taken before the var.

----------


## BJJ

> *STATS:*__________________________________________Day *16*_____________________________Day *35*_____________________________Day *56*______________________________________Day *62* (1W PCT)
> 36 years old, 187 cm (6'2" ft)
> Body Weight: 87,5 kg (192,5 lbs)_________________________*94,5* kg (*207,9* lbs) *+8%*_____________*98,9* kg (*217,6* lbs) *+13,02%*_________*96,5* kg (*212,3* lbs) *+10,28%*__________________*94,7* kg (*208,3* lbs) *+8,23%*
> Body Fat: 12,9%______________________________________*14*% *+8,52%*_______________________*14,6*% *+13,17%*____________________*14*% *+8,52%*________________________________*12,3*% *-3,14%*
> Body Water: 63,2%____________________________________*63,6*% *+0,63%*_____________________*63,8*% *+0,94%*_____________________*64%* *+1,26%*
> Estimated Muscle Mass: 73,5 kg (161,7 lbs)________________*77,3* kg (*170,6* lbs) *+5,17%*__________*80,3* kg (*176,66* lbs) *+9,25%*_________*78,9* kg (*173,58* lbs) *+7,34%*__________________*79,6* kg (*175,1* lbs) *+8,30%*
> Training Experience: since 1990
> 
> Lean Body Mass Acquisition (LBM): *9,043* kg (*19,89* lbs)
> ...


Backup

----------


## BJJ

> I'll see if I can get this moved to the member cycle results forum for you, BJJ.


I totally missed your post lol.
Yes please move it, even though a bit late.  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## BJJ

> *CYCLE:*
> BULKING _(23/09/2009 - 17/11/2009)_
> Week *1-8 Oxandrolone* [UG] *60 mg ed* (ttl 2.940 mg) (Breakfast/Lunch)
> Week *4-7 Mesterolone* [PG] *50 mg ed* (ttl 1.400 mg) (Breakfast/Dinner)
> PCT _(18/11/2009 - 28/12/2009)_
> Week *9-10 Clomiphene Citrate* [PG] *50/50 mg ed* (ttl 700 mg) (Breakfast)
> Week *9-11 Tamoxifen Citrate* [PG] *20/20/20 mg ed* (ttl 420 mg) (Breakfast)
> Week *11-12 Clenbuterol Hydrochloride* [PG] *60/60/80/80/100/100/100/100/60/60 mcg ed* (ttl 800 mcg) (Breakfast)
> Week *12-13 Glutathione* [PG] *600 mg ed* (ttl 6.000 mg) (Morning)
> ...


*Image Backup*

----------


## westcoastriot

BJJ, all I can say is thank you for your dedication to this thread. I have read this log from start to finish, and I know that with the amount of information discussed here I will definitely go back through it to glean even more information. I'll also be considering your advice to stack Mesterolone with the Var. Im curious to know whether you think taking some kind of natural test booster would be beneficial at all during a Var cycle to help maintain any sort of decent test levels, or would it be wasted $$$ due to the immense suppression of Test by the Var? 

Thanks again for your time.

----------


## BJJ

Your second assumption is the one correct, IMHO.

Good Luck

----------


## dos531

So did the extra mass help or hurt your bjj game?

----------


## BJJ

I was helped with this cycle but from the second one on, using testosterone , I had problems to roll and keep endurance.
This is the reason why I have added rHuEPO with great results.

----------


## westcoastriot

> Your second assumption is the one correct, IMHO.
> 
> Good Luck


Haha. I've got a long way to go before I start any sort of cycle. Right now Im just dialing in my diet and getting my BF down to around 15%. After that...

Can you tell me what rHuEPO is?

----------


## BJJ

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...n-%28rHuEPO%29

----------


## westcoastriot

Thanks. I'll check it out.

----------


## Vitruvius

Thanks for you answer. I ended up getting the proviron after all.
I copied your cycle (almost) and did it last fall for 6 weeks. I gained over 13lbs of lean muscle and didnt add on any fat. This has helped me at my sport. Right now its been like 4 months since I finished taking clomid and nolvadex , and all my levels have gone back to normal. Being "unbiased" I can say that I still have 70% of the strength I gained, but about 4 lbs of lean muscle mass have hit the road. Well that usually happens anyways when the season starts in the late fall, since its hard to play competitive bball and hold your weight high and steady. Currently I am 6 foot 6 inches and 240lbs. People noticed the gain last fall, but it wasnt amazing enough for people to start up some rumours. People did notice my hard work though, since I did hit the weight room pretty hard with my trainer and teammates.....
So my questions to you are following:
1. For the rest of the season I was thinking about taking some anavar and proviron (60mg ed anavar, and 100mg proviron ed) for 4 to 6 weeks. I dont want the gains to become too visual, but I still was wandering if you would recommend or object of me taking a mild dose of test with this. (since I have 2hours of bball every day = a lot of cardio ;( )
2. The season is over in the spring, so I was wandering what you would recommend me taking for the remainder, if any. (just to stay on my toes, or taking off from them)?

----------


## BJJ

> Thanks for you answer. I ended up getting the proviron after all.
> I copied your cycle (almost) and did it last fall for 6 weeks. I gained over 13lbs of lean muscle and didnt add on any fat. This has helped me at my sport. Right now its been like 4 months since I finished taking clomid and nolvadex , and all my levels have gone back to normal. Being "unbiased" I can say that I still have 70% of the strength I gained, but about 4 lbs of lean muscle mass have hit the road. Well that usually happens anyways when the season starts in the late fall, since its hard to play competitive bball and hold your weight high and steady. Currently I am 6 foot 6 inches and 240lbs. People noticed the gain last fall, but it wasnt amazing enough for people to start up some rumours. People did notice my hard work though, since I did hit the weight room pretty hard with my trainer and teammates.....
> So my questions to you are following:
> 1. For the rest of the season I was thinking about taking some anavar and proviron (60mg ed anavar, and 100mg proviron ed) for 4 to 6 weeks. I dont want the gains to become too visual, but I still was wandering if you would recommend or object of me taking a mild dose of test with this. (since I have 2hours of bball every day = a lot of cardio ;( )
> 2. The season is over in the spring, so I was wandering what you would recommend me taking for the remainder, if any. (just to stay on my toes, or taking off from them)?


I would definitely add test to your next cycle and I would run it for 6 weeks, 4 are too less even if using a short ester.
After that, run your PCT and rest from AAS.

----------


## Vitruvius

Thank you for your thought.

So could the following dosage work: 60mg anavar ed - 100mg proviron ed - Testosterone Propionate /Suspension 250mg a week. (or Testosterone Enanthate /Cypionate /Decanoate/Undecanoate)

That is: What test would you recommend, in my case, and at what dosage?

----------


## BJJ

> Thank you for your thought.
> 
> So could the following dosage work: 60mg anavar ed - 100mg proviron ed - Testosterone Propionate /Suspension 250mg a week. (or Testosterone Enanthate /Cypionate /Decanoate/Undecanoate)
> 
> That is: What test would you recommend, in my case, and at what dosage?


I would bump the anavar to 70 mg ed, ok for mesterolone.
Regarding test, I would avoid short esters otherwise you had to be compelled to shoot ed or oed; not to mention suspension...
I would opt for test enanthate @ 250 mg ew (2 shots).

----------


## Cacu

Could you describe the strength increases and muscle gain on your Anavar cycle?

----------


## BJJ

> Could you describe the strength increases and muscle gain on your Anavar cycle?


It is all written in post n.2.
What do you need to know exactly?

----------


## Cacu

What is post n.2.?

----------


## Kouga53

Nice job dude and good records. Keep up the good work.

----------


## BJJ

> What is post n.2.?


*CYCLE:*
BULKING _(23/09/2009 - 17/11/2009)_
Week *1-8 Oxandrolone* [UG] *60 mg ed* (ttl 2.940 mg) (Breakfast/Lunch)
Week *4-7 Mesterolone* [PG] *50 mg ed* (ttl 1.400 mg) (Breakfast/Dinner)
PCT _(18/11/2009 - 28/12/2009)_
Week *9-10 Clomiphene Citrate* [PG] *50/50 mg ed* (ttl 700 mg) (Breakfast)
Week *9-11 Tamoxifen Citrate* [PG] *20/20/20 mg ed* (ttl 420 mg) (Breakfast)
Week *11-12 Clenbuterol Hydrochloride* [PG] *60/60/80/80/100/100/100/100/60/60 mcg ed* (ttl 800 mcg) (Breakfast)
Week *12-13 Glutathione* [PG] *600 mg ed* (ttl 6.000 mg) (Morning)

*IUPAC:*
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=439055

*DIET:*
BMR: *1.954* Kcal
Daily Diet (*3.159* Kcal): *300* g of Protides, *55* g of Lipides, *366* g of Glucides
Protides/Glucides Relation: *0,81*
Supplements: _Multi Vitamins/Minerals, Vitamin C/Ester, EFA complex, ALA, LIV.52, CLA, ZMA, Chromium Picolinate, Acetyl L-Carnitine, Coenzyme Q10, Glutamine, BCAA, Glucosamine, Chondroitin Sulfate, Glycine, l-Arginine, Alpha-Ketoisocaproic Acid Calcium_.

*STRENGTH* (8 reps):__________________________________________Da y *56*
Squat (legs) 100 kg (220 lbs)_______________________________________*130* kg (*286* lbs) *+30%*
One Arm Dumbbell Row (back) 30 kg (66 lbs)___________________________*44* kg (*96,8* lbs) *+46,66%*
Bench Press with Dumbbells (chest) 30 kg (66 lbs) each_________________*40* kg (*88* lbs) *+33,33%*
Military Press with Dumbbells (shoulders) 24 kg (52,8 lbs) each____________*34* kg (*74,8* lbs)* +41,66%*
Dumbbells Curls (biceps - seated) 24 kg (52,8 lbs) each_________________*30* kg (*66* lbs) *+25%*
Dumbbells Curls (triceps - lying down) 18 kg (39,6 lbs) each______________*24* kg (*52,8* lbs) *+33,33%*

Strength Acquisition: *35%* estimate
_Formula: (current-previous)/previous*100 = (+) increase% or (-) decrease%_

*STATS:*__________________________________________Day *16*_____________________________Day *35*_____________________________Day *56*______________________________________Day *62* (1W PCT)
36 years old, 187 cm (6'2" ft)
Body Weight: 87,5 kg (192,5 lbs)_________________________*94,5* kg (*207,9* lbs) *+8%*_____________*98,9* kg (*217,6* lbs) *+13,02%*_________*96,5* kg (*212,3* lbs) *+10,28%*__________________*94,7* kg (*208,3* lbs) *+8,23%*
Body Fat: 12,9%______________________________________*14*% *+8,52%*_______________________*14,6*% *+13,17%*____________________*14*% *+8,52%*________________________________*12,3*% *-3,14%*
Body Water: 63,2%____________________________________*63,6*% *+0,63%*_____________________*63,8*% *+0,94%*_____________________*64%* *+1,26%*
Estimated Muscle Mass: 73,5 kg (161,7 lbs)________________*77,3* kg (*170,6* lbs) *+5,17%*__________*80,3* kg (*176,66* lbs) *+9,25%*_________*78,9* kg (*173,58* lbs) *+7,34%*__________________*79,6* kg (*175,1* lbs) *+8,30%*

Lean Body Mass Acquisition (LBM): *9,043* kg (*19,89* lbs)
New Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR): *2.053* Kcal
*Complete Cycle Log*: _http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...97#post5002497_


*BLOOD WORK, URINE, FAECES & SPERM ANALYSES:*
__________________________________________________*18*__________*36*__________*51*__________*56*__________*98* (4W PCT)_____*122* (8W PCT)

*BLOOD*
ERYTHROCYTES: *5,18* mil/mmc [4 - 5,5]__________________________________________________ ___*5,2*_________*5,34*
LEUCOCYTES: *7,3* mila/mmc [4 - 9]__________________________________________________ _______*8,6*_________*7,5*
- NE: *4,1* / *55,8* % [2 - 6 / 37 - 80]__________________________________________________ __________________*4,1* / *54,8*
- LY: *2,4* / *33* % [0,6 - 36 / 10 - 50]__________________________________________________ _________________*2,7* / *35,6*
- MO: *0,6* / *8,6* % [0 - 0,9 / 0 - 12]__________________________________________________ __________________*0,5* / *7,1*
- EO: *0,2* / *2,1* % [0 - 7 / 0 - 7]__________________________________________________ _____________________*0,1* / *1,8*
- BA: *0* / *0,5* % [0 - 0,2 / 0 - 2,5]__________________________________________________ ____________________*0,1* / *0,7*
HEMOGLOBIN: *14,9* gr/dl [14 - 18]__________________________________________________ ________*13,6*________*15,6*
HEMATOCRIT: *45,3* % [42 - 52]__________________________________________________ __________*44,1*________*45,5*
MCV: *87,5* femtol [82 - 98]__________________________________________________ ______________*84,8*________*85,2*
MCH: *28,8* picogr. [27 - 31]__________________________________________________ _____________*26,2*________*29,2*
MCHC: *32,9* gr/dl [32 - 36]__________________________________________________ ______________*30,8*________*34,3*
RDW: *13,5* % [11,6 - 16]__________________________________________________ ___________________________*14*
GRAN-NEUTROPHILS: *55,8* % [37 - 80]__________________________________________________ ____*60,7*________*54,8*
GRAN-EOSINOPHILS: *2,1* % [0 - 7]__________________________________________________ ________*1,9*_________*1,8*
GRAN-BASOPHILS: *0,5* % [0 - 2,5]__________________________________________________ ________*0,7*_________*0,7*
LYMPHOCYTES: *33,0* % [10 - 50]__________________________________________________ ________*28,4*________*35,6*
MONOCYTES: *8,6* % [0 - 12]__________________________________________________ _____________*8,3*_________*7,1*
PLATELETS: *163000* /mmc [150000 - 400000]________________________________________________*336000*_____*164000*
PCT: *0,12* % [0,1 - 1]__________________________________________________ ______________________________*0,12*
MPV: *7,3* fl [5 - 10]__________________________________________________ ________________________________*7,2*
PDW: *17,4* % [12 - 18]__________________________________________________ _____________________________*18,5*

*HEART, KIDNEYS, LIVER, PANCREAS & PROSTATE*
GLYCEMIA (basal): *90* mg/dl [70 - 110]__________________________________________________ ________________*98*
QUICK PROTHROMBIN TIME: *13,7* s_________________________________________________ ____________________*13,1*
PROTHROMBIN ACTIVITY: *69,6* % [70- 130]__________________________________________________ ___________*86*
INR: *1,18*__________________________________________________ ________________________________________*1,09*
APTT: *27,5* s_________________________________________________ ______________________________________*27,8*
FIBRINOGEN: *185* mg/dl [180 - 350]__________________________________________________ __________________*184,7*
HOMOCYSTEINE: *10* mcmoli/l [6 - 15]__________________________________________________ _________________*9,5*
MYOGLOBIN: *26* ng/ml [10 - 46]__________________________________________________ ______________________*38*
AZOTEMIA: *49* mg/dl [15 - 40]________________________*62*__________*57*_______________________*56*_________*53*______________*52,8*
CREATININE: *1,2* mg/dl [0,8 - 1,3]_____________________*1,2*__________*1,2*______________________*1,3*_________*1,3*
HYPERURICEMIA: *5,9* mg/dl [3,5 - 7,2]__________________________________________________ ________________*5,5*
CHOLESTEROL TTL: *168* mg/dl [140 - 220]______________*179*_________*205*______________________*232*________*194*
CHOLESTEROL VLDL: *33* mg/dl [20 - 40]__________________________________________________ _______________*30*
CHOLESTEROL LDL: *105* mg/dl [<150]___________________*157*_________*199*_____________________*202*_________*129*_____________*101*
CHOLESTEROL HDL: *41* mg/dl [>40]_ ___________________*13*__________*11*_______________________*13*__________*45*
INDEX RISK HDL: *4,1* [till 5]___________________________*13,76*_______*19,2*_____________________*17,8*________*4,3*
APO A1: *185* mg/dl [115 - 220]__________________________________________________ ______________________*190*
APO B: *77* mg/dl [55 - 125]__________________________________________________ __________________________*79*
RATIO B/A1 APO: *0,41* [0,35 - 1]__________________________________________________ _____________________*0,41*
TRIGLYCERIDES: *95* mg/dl [<150]__________________________________________________ _____________________*104*
GAMMA (YGT): *28* u/ltr [15 - 85]______________________*29*__________*28*_______________________*26*__________*40*
ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE: *71* u/ltr [50 - 136]__________________________________________________ ___________*72*
BILIRUBIN TTL: *1,98* mg/dl [0,2 - 1]___________________*0,83*_________*0,78*_________________________________*0,93*____________*1,54*
BILIRUBIN DIRECT: *0,22* mg/dl [0,05 - 0,3]______________*0,1*__________*0,1*__________________________________*0,1*_____________*0,53*
BILIRUBIN INDIRECT: *1,76* mg/dl [till 0,7]________________*0,73*________*0,68*_________________________________*0,83*____________*1,01*
TRANSAMINASE GOT/AST: *21* u/ltr [15 - 37]_____________*55*__________*50*_______________________*46*_________*28*______________*58*
TRANSAMINASE GPT/ALT: *41* u/ltr [30 - 65]_____________*86*__________*66*_______________________*95*__________*71*______________*77*
FERRITIN: *124,5* ng/ml [24 - 336]__________________________________________________ ____________________*124*
LIPASE: *236* u/ltr [114 - 284]__________________________________________________ ________________________*298*____________*216*
AMYLASE: *62* u/ltr [25 - 115]_________________________*55*__________*63*_______________________*64*__________*75*_____________*76*
LDH: *160* u/ltr [100 - 190]__________________________________________________ __________________________*155*
CPK MB: *200* u/ltr [35 - 232]__________________________________________________ ________________________*230*
CK NAK: *150* u/l [till 167]__________________________________________________ ___________________________*165*
PROTIDES TTL: *7,4* gr/dl [6,4 - 8,2]__________________________________________________ _______*7,8*_________*7,7*
ALBUMIN: *59,1* % [51 - 63,3]__________________________________________________ ____________*60,3*________*63,1*
ALFA 1: *2,9* % [2,2 - 4,3]__________________________________________________ _______________*2,4*_________*2,3*
ALFA 2: *10,1* % [9,5 - 14]__________________________________________________ ______________*12,6*________*8,5*
BETA: *9,6* % [10 - 14,5]__________________________________________________ _______________*11,3*_________*9,3*
GAMMA: *18,3* % [12 - 20]__________________________________________________ _______________*13,4*________*16,8*
A/G RATIO: *1,44* [1 - 1,7]__________________________________________________ _______________*1,52*________*1,71*
PSA: *0,64* ng/ml [till 4]__________________________________________________ _________________*0,39*_________*0,58*
PSA FREE: *0,22*__________________________________________________ ____________________________________*0,24*
PSA FREE/TTL: *0,40* [>0,15]__________________________________________________ _________________________*0,41*
PAP: *4,8* u/ltr [<=4,7]_ __________________________________________________ _____________________________*5,1*
IGG: *1447* mg/dl [681 - 1648]__________________________________________________ ________________________*1455*
IGA: *304* mg/dl [87 - 474]__________________________________________________ ___________________________*321*
IGD: *50* u/ml [till 100]__________________________________________________ _______________________________*57*
IGM: *99* mg/dl [48 - 312]__________________________________________________ ____________________________*97*
IGE (prist): *37,47* iu/ml [1,31 - 165,3]__________________________________________________ _________________*39,77*

*INFECTIVITY & ALLERGOLOGY*
HIV-Ab (1+2): *0,16 non-react* u/cutoff [<0,9]__________________________________________________ __________*0,18 non-react*
HCV-Ab: *0,13 non-react* u/cutoff [<0,9]__________________________________________________ _______________*0,12 non-react*
HBS-Ag: *0,37 non-react* u/cutoff [<0,9]__________________________________________________ _______________*0,39 non-react*
HAV-Ab (IgT): *>85 react* miu/ml [<35]__________________________________________________ _________________*>85 react*
HAV-Ab (IgM): *0,08 non-react* u/cutoff [<0,9]__________________________________________________ __________*0,07 non-react*
TAS: *110* ui/ml [0 - 166]__________________________________________________ ____________________________*111*
VDRL: *negative* [negative]__________________________________________________ ___________________________*negative*
CRP: *2* mg/dl [till 5]__________________________________________________ _________________________________*2,1*
REUMA TEST: *<20* iu/ml [<20]__________________________________________________ ________________________*<20*
ESR: *5* mm/h [till 15]__________________________________________________ ________________________________*5*
LYSOZYME: *7* picog/ml [4 - 13]__________________________________________________ _______________________*7*
ACE: *9* mcg/l [6 - 12]__________________________________________________ _______________________________*8,5*
RAST Egg: *0,1* [<0,3]
RAST Yolk: *0,1* [<0,3]
RAST Crayfish: *0,1* [<0,3]
RAST Yeast: *0,1* [<0,3]
RAST Pork: *0,1* [<0,3]
RAST Fish Mix: *0,1* [<0,3]
RAST Olea Europaea Pollen: *0,1* [<0,3]

*VITAMINS & ELECTROLYTES*
VITAMIN A: *779,2* mcg/l [300 - 650]__________________________________________________ _________________*692,1*
VITAMIN E: *12,6* mg/ltr [5 - 20]__________________________________________________ ______________________*100*
VITAMIN C: *0,9* mg/ml [0,5 - 1,5]__________________________________________________ ____________________*1,2*
VITAMIN B12: *587* pg/ml [179 - 1162]__________________________________________________ _________________*787*
VITAMIN D3: *60* ng/ml [10 - 45]__________________________________________________ _____________________*40*
VITAMIN H: *82* ng/ml [70 - 100]__________________________________________________ _____________________*90*
VITAMIN K: *22* mcg/ml [15 - 30]__________________________________________________ _____________________*26*
VITAMIN PP: *0,7* mg/ml [0,5 - 0,8]__________________________________________________ ___________________*0,7*
SODIUM: *142* meq/l [136 - 145]__________________________________________________ ______________________*139*
POTASSIUM: *4,0* meq/l [3,5 - 5,1]__________________________________________________ ____________________*4,4*
CALCIUM: *9,0* mg/dl [8,5 - 10,1]__________________________________________________ ______________________*9,1*
MAGNESIUM: *2,0* mg/dl [1,8 - 2,4]__________________________________________________ ____________________*2,2*
PHOSPHORUS: *3,7* mg/dl [2,7 - 4,5]__________________________________________________ ___________________*4,3*
IRON: *148* mcg/dl [35 - 150]__________________________________________________ _________________________*96*
ZINC: *103* mcg/dl [80 - 125]__________________________________________________ _________________________*132*
CHLORINE: *103* meq/l [98 - 107]__________________________________________________ ______________________*99*
COPPER: *88* ku/l [76 - 153]__________________________________________________ __________________________*88*

*HORMONAL*
GASTRIN: *31* pg/ml [28 - 125]__________________________________________________ _______________________*33*
MELATONIN: *47* pg/ml [20 - 85]__________________________________________________ ______________________*50*
C-PEPTIDE: *1,2* ng/ml [0,78  1,89]__________________________________________________ ___________________*1,25*
INSULIN : *3,34* micru/ml [1,9 - 23]______________________*3,6*_________*3,04*_________________________________*2,39*
GLUCAGON: *55* pg/ml [40 - 130]__________________________________________________ _____________________*55*
ACTH: *20* pg/dl [till 50]__________________________________________________ _____________________________*21*
CORTISOL: *12,53* mg/dl [8,7 - 22,4]__________________________________________________ ______*13,64*_______*18,7*
FT3: *3,48* pg/ml [2,2 - 4,7]__________________________________________________ ______________*4,82*_______*3,13*
FT4: *1,26* ng/dl [0,8 - 2]__________________________________________________ ________________*1,29*_______*1,16*
MSH: *9,7* pmol/l [7,9 - 14,4]__________________________________________________ _________________________*9,8*
HTG: *7,65* ng/ml [0 - 35]______ __________________________________________________ _____________________*6,61*
TBG: *18* mcg/ml [15 - 32]__________________________________________________ ___________________________*18,6*
TSH: *2,92* micru/ml [0,34 - 5,6]__________________________________________________ __________*3,88*________*3,92*
FSH: *4,16* miu/ml [1,27 - 19,26]_______________________*2,09*________*2,56*_____________________*1,42*________*3,9*
LH: *3,80* miu/ml [1,24 - 8,62]_________________________*2,19*________*2,58*_____________________*2,61*________*4,84*
PREGNENOLONE: *155* ng/ml [10 - 230]__________________________________________________ ________________*160*
ANDROSTENEDIONE: *1,77* ng/ml [0,3 - 3,1]__________________________________________________ ____________*1,79*
ALDOSTERONE: *180* pg/ml [10 - 160]__________________________________________________ _________________*184*
DHEA: *7,3* ng/ml [2,5 - 9,5]__________________________________________________ _________________________*6,2*
DHEAS: *191* mcg/dl [106 - 464]_______________________*209*_________*209,6*________________________________*221,6*
DHT: *71* ng/ml [31 - 146]__________________________________________________ ___________________________*70*
TESTOSTERONE TTL: *3,86* ng/ml [1,75 - 7,81]___________*0,72*________*0,61*_________________________________*6,29*
TESTOSTERONE FREE: *11,7* pg/ml [8 - 47]______________*5,2*_________*4,8*_______________________*9,6*_________*13,5*
SHBG: *38* pg/ml [13 - 71]____________________________*10*__________*<0,1*_________________________________*36*
ESTRONE: *47* pg/ml [40 - 60]__________________________________________________ ________________________*45*
ESTRADIOL 17-BETA: *36* pg/ml [<20 - 47]__________________________________________________ __*9*__________*30*
ESTRIOL: *5,7* pg/ml [4,7 - 7,1]__________________________________________________ _______________________*5,5*
PROGESTERONE: *0,93* ng/ml [0,14 - 2,06]__________________________________________________ _____________*0,87*
PRL: *9,88* ng/ml [2,64 - 13,13]__________________________________________________ ___________*12,78*______*13,05*
IGF-1: *190* ng/ml [96 - 424]__________________________*184*_________*163*__________________________________*392*
HGH: *0,2* ng/ml [0 - 10]______ ______________________*<0,1*________*<0,1*__________________________________*0,3*

*URINE*
COLOUR: *straw-coloured*____________________________*straw-coloured*____________________________________*straw-coloured*
APPEARANCE: *lightly opalescent* [limpid]_______________*lightly opalescent*__________________________________*limpid*
PH REACTION: *5,5* [5 - 6,5]___________________________*6*________________________________________________*5,5*
SPECIFIC WEIGHT: *1020* [1015 - 1028]_________________*1016*_____________________________________________*1018*
PROTEINS: *none* mg/dl [0 - 10]________________________*none*_____________________________________________*none*
HEMOGLOBIN: *none* [none]___________________________*present +*_________________________________________*none*
GLUCOSE: *none* gr/litre [0 - 0,2]_______________________*none*_____________________________________________*none*
KETONE BODIES: *none* [none]_________________________*none*_____________________________________________*none*
UROBILINOGEN: *none* mg/dl [0 - 0,2]___________________*none*_____________________________________________*none*
BILIARY PIGMENTS: *none* [none]______________________*none*_____________________________________________*none*
NITRITE: *none* [none]_______________________________*none*_____________________________________________*none*

*FAECES*
SHAPE: *solid* [homogeneous]__________________________________________________ ________________________*caprina*
CONSISTENCY: *compost* [poltacea]__________________________________________________ __________________*solid*
COLOUR:* brown* [brown]__________________________________________________ ____________________________*brown*
ODOUR: *sui generis* [sui generis]__________________________________________________ _____________________*sui generis*
MUCUS: *absent* [absent]__________________________________________________ ___________________________*absent*
BLOOD: *absent* [absent]__________________________________________________ ____________________________*absent*
PH REACTION: *7*__________________________________________________ ___________________________________*7,4*
PARASITOLOGICAL: *negative* [negative]__________________________________________________ _______________*negative*
SALMONELLA: *negative* [negative]__________________________________________________ ___________________*negative*
HELICOBACTER PYLORI: *negative* [negative]__________________________________________________ ___________*negative*
GIARDIASIS: *negative* [negative]__________________________________________________ ____________________*negative*

*SPERM*
VOLUME: *2,8* ml [>=2]__ __________________________________________________ ____*2,5*____________________________________*2,6*
PH: *8,1* [7,2 - 8]__________________________________________________ __________*7,2*_____________________________________*7,3*
APPEARANCE: *own*__________________________________________________ _________*own*____________________________________*own*
VISCOSITY: *increased +* [within limits]__________________________________________*within limits*_____________________________*within limits*
FLUIDIFICATION 45': *finely irregular* [physiologic]_________________________________*physiologic*______________________________*physiologic*
SPERMATOZOON CONCENTRATION: *89.000.000* /ml [>=20.000.000]_ _________________*42.000.000*______________________________*85.000.000*
EJACULATE SPERMATOZOON COUNT: *249.200.000* [>=40.000.000] __________________*105.000.000*_____________________________*228.000.000*
2ND HOUR MOTILITY: *60* % [>=50]______________________________________________*45*______________________________________*57*
TYPICAL MORPHOLOGIC SPERMATOZOON: *30* % [>=35]_____________________________*28*______________________________________*35*
ATYPICAL MORPHOLOGIC SPERMATOZOON: *70* %__________________________________*72*______________________________________*71*
LEUCOCYTE: *300.000* /ml [<=1.000.000]_________________________________________*500.000*_________________________________*335.000*
ERYTHROCYTE: *absent* [absent/rare]____________________________________________*absent*__________________________________*absent*
GERMINAL CELLS: *rare* [absent/rare]____________________________________________*present*_________________________________*absent*
EPITHELIAL CELLS: *rare* [absent/rare]___________________________________________*absent*__________________________________*absent*
SPERMAGGLUTINATION ZONES: *rare* [absent/rare]_________________________________*absent*__________________________________*absent*




   
by _"Whole Body Hologic QDR-4500W DXA Fan-Beam Scanner"_

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## BJJ

> hi bjj
> would u recomend the same to me as the avatar is my pic and i'm 31 natty gains are slow i'm 5'7 160 12%bf wanna gain some lean mass with minimal sides and return to beeing natty and i've been working out all my life but just got my bulking in check!
> my only concern is returning to my normal hormonal level after pct.
> my test level is 575.5 ng/ml
> thx


Would that be your first cycle?

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## BJJ

> yep first cycle ever no roids no pro hormones.
> and i would do 
> 1 to 8 50mgs anavar 
> 1 to 8 ? proviron 
> pct 50/50/50/50/ 20/20/20/20 ?



do not need 4 weeks pct, imho.

assuming you know how to eat, train and rest, i would do:
week 1-8 oxandrolone 60 mg ed
week 1-8 mesterolone 100 mg ed
week 9-10 clomiphene citrate 100/50 ed
week 9-11 tamoxifen citrate 20/20/20 ed

hcg on hand as well as exemestane or anastrozole, you never know. and in the remote case you need hcg you must have an ai with.

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## Cacu

Awesome gains.

So for HCG use you must have Arimedex?

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## BJJ

> Awesome gains.
> 
> So for HCG use you must have Arimedex?


You must have an AI, yes.

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## Vitruvius

About the test: I have 250mg/mL, so should I then be taking 2 shots of that? (500mg ew total)
(there are 10mL in the glass) (do you shoot it in the buttocks or thigh... or both?)
About the proviron : I got masteron instead, so I guess I will be shooting everyday, consider that it is 100mg/mL? Or is it enough to shoot it every two out of three days (like: Monday morning, Tuesday evening, and then Wednesday morning again? or does that really matter, i.e. what part of the day.)

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## Vitruvius

I meant to say Thursday morning again...

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## BJJ

> About the test: I have 250mg/mL, so should I then be taking 2 shots of that? (500mg ew total) *yes 2 shots ew*
> (there are 10mL in the glass) (do you shoot it in the buttocks or thigh... or both?) *learn to inject all over the body*
> About the proviron : I got masteron instead, so I guess I will be shooting everyday, consider that it is 100mg/mL? Or is it enough to shoot it every two out of three days (like: Monday morning, Tuesday evening, and then Wednesday morning again? or does that really matter, i.e. what part of the day.) *it would be best to shoot it ed but also eod is fine, up to you*


*bold*

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## Vitruvius

thx...
I´m a little over a week into the cycle now, and after shooting the test yesterday (test shoot no. 02) I have been feeling an itch all over my body. Do you have any recommendations to get rid of it? (besides stop using the test) Or might the itch subside?
ps. I haven´t started using mesterolon. I was planning on starting that later this week.

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## BJJ

> thx...
> I´m a little over a week into the cycle now, and after shooting the test yesterday (test shoot no. 02) I have been feeling an itch all over my body. Do you have any recommendations to get rid of it? (besides stop using the test) Or might the itch subside?
> ps. I haven´t started using mesterolon. I was planning on starting that later this week.


"All over your body" has to do with Oxandrolone not with Testosterone .
Wait a few more days and it should subside but take Mesterolone ASAP.

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## BJJ

> *Isnt an effect of liver stress, itching?
> *
> BJJ i would really appreciate your critical assessment of my (somewhat embarassing) current physical appearance, in light of my new Anavar cycle. I am 1 week into it. Trying to "stack" (term used loosely) with Creatine and high clean calorie intake to get some lean size. Here's my thread: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...iences-Results
> 
> 
> Really incredibly irritating that I am not able to view profiles because I have less than 50 posts.... forum admin ...


It could be yes, that is why I wrote it has to do probably with anavar and not with test.

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## Vitruvius

Thx for the info... The itch is gone, the mesterolone is working great. I have a problem though; I have pain on fron of my knee and its pretty bad... yesterday I could only play one quarter of basketball. Ive been taking glucosamin/condroitin/and Flax seed oil among others, but it doesnt seem to help much. do you have any recommendation??

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## BJJ

> Thx for the info... The itch is gone, the mesterolone is working great. I have a problem though; I have pain on fron of my knee and its pretty bad... yesterday I could only play one quarter of basketball. Ive been taking glucosamin/condroitin/and Flax seed oil among others, but it doesnt seem to help much. do you have any recommendation??


Take a week rest and if nothing improves I would go for a NMR.

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## Vitruvius

thx for the tip. I rested a little and the knees are getting better. Im starting to play like before. The strength is increasing a lot, so Im happy. I was thinking about extending the cycle to 8 weeks, since we are in the playoffs, and I have a lot of gear. Do you have any thoughts of maybe stop taking anavar and mesterolone after week 7 and maybe cont. the test through week no 8 or 9 ??

Also Im pretty red in the face and chest for the last few days. Do you have any recommendations on that? Maybe take aspirin? (my bp is normal)

A girl that I know is taking 10mg anavar for 6 weeks. She is in very good shape and training for a fitness comp. Do you recommend any mesterolone for her during her cycle. She doesnt need to cut fat, but need to get a little stronger. (tone up)

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## BJJ

Please remaind me your cycle exactly.

Regarding the girl no, I would not suggest her to ingest mesterolone.

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## Vitruvius

6 week cycle:
Testosterone 500mg per week (2 shoots)
Anavar 60mg per week
Mesterolone 350mg per week (100mg shoot eod)

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## Vitruvius

sorry, anavar 60mg ed

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## BJJ

> 6 week cycle:
> Testosterone 500mg per week (2 shoots)
> Anavar 60mg per week
> Mesterolone 350mg per week (100mg shoot eod)


Mesterolone for injection? Perhaps you are injecting drostanolone.
If that is the case, 100 mg eod is fine.

Regarding your previous question, you can extend the ingestion of oxandrolone up to 8 or 9 weeks with that low (but enough) amount.

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## Matt

Please ignore the spam^^

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## Vitruvius

> Mesterolone for injection? Perhaps you are injecting drostanolone.
> If that is the case, 100 mg eod is fine.
> 
> Regarding your previous question, you can extend the ingestion of oxandrolone up to 8 or 9 weeks with that low (but enough) amount.


Thx for the info.

So now I have done the cycle for 7 out of 8 weeks.

The cycle is:
Testosterone 500mg ew (2 shoots)
Anavar 60mg ed
Masteron 350mg ew (100mg shoot eod)

Im waiting for my bloodwork, but do you have any ballpark recommendation for a pct? (that is, the amount and for how long)

(I have both clomid and nolvadex , and would like to use both.)

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## BJJ

> Thx for the info.
> 
> So now I have done the cycle for 7 out of 8 weeks.
> 
> The cycle is:
> Testosterone 500mg ew (2 shoots)
> Anavar 60mg ed
> Masteron 350mg ew (100mg shoot eod)
> 
> ...


Your cycle was very simple and so your PCT.

Week 1-4 Clomid 100/50/50/25
Week 1-4 Nolva 40/20/20/20

You may use an AI to cope with the estrogens rebound but that is up to you.
Wait 6 weeks from the end of PCT and get a full BW.

If you have not recovered by then you may contemplate the use of HCG /HMG, but this is another story to come...

Next cycle, if any, use HCG from the beginning.

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## Vitruvius

The girl has now finished a 6 week cycle, using 10mg ed. What would you recommend as pct?

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## Vitruvius

That is, 6 week anavar cycle




> The girl has now finished a 6 week cycle, using 10mg ed. What would you recommend as pct?

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## BJJ

> The girl has now finished a 6 week cycle, using 10mg ed. What would you recommend as pct?


Non need for PCT

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## t-dogg

Great, Great READ! Its good to have logs like this on hand.

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## rawpower

wow this is an amazing log! best one ive seen so far

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## soccerplayer

Hi BJJ,

I would like to know what you think about taking Clenbuterol w/ Oxandrolone.. I would like to take for 8 weeks.. that's the first time ever I'm going to do cycle. I'm a soccer player so I don't want to gain to much mass.. but not taking it's not a option for me once the MLS scout told me I must gain mass in order to be drafted.. I've been checking your knowledgement about the subject n u seem to be pretty well informed..

Height: 1,79cm 5'10
Weight: 179 pounds..
Age: 20 years old

I don't know what the fat percentage, but I believe it's over 14%

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## BJJ

> Hi BJJ,
> 
> I would like to know what you think about taking Clenbuterol w/ Oxandrolone.. I would like to take for 8 weeks.. that's the first time ever I'm going to do cycle. I'm a soccer player so I don't want to gain to much mass.. but not taking it's not a option for me once the MLS scout told me I must gain mass in order to be drafted.. I've been checking your knowledgement about the subject n u seem to be pretty well informed..
> 
> Height: 1,79cm 5'10
> Weight: 179 pounds..
> Age: 20 years old
> 
> I don't know what the fat percentage, but I believe it's over 14%


At your age neither of them could be the right choice for you.
I invite you to desist.

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## jaybaps

Just wondering i was diagnosed with an enlarged spleen at 12.7 cm doctor said nothing to worry about and pretty much sent me home as if it was normal im just wondering should i avoid doing an anavar only cycle cause i actually just started with today. If anyone has any info they can share id appreciate it.

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## BJJ

> Just wondering i was diagnosed with an enlarged spleen at 12.7 cm doctor said nothing to worry about and pretty much sent me home as if it was normal im just wondering should i avoid doing an anavar only cycle cause i actually just started with today. If anyone has any info they can share id appreciate it.


blood work is what you need

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## tarmyg

Hi BJJ,

Amazing thread  :Smilie:  You have heard that before and I'll say it again, amazing...

I was going to follow your example here because I wanted to see what effect a small amount of steroids have on my body and Anavar seems like a good idea for that specific purpose I have with this experiment. I started last week on Monday at 21.00 and was taking 20mg three times/day at 5.00, 13.00, and 21.00. I noticed on Thursday that my balls started hurting already and since this was just a very short introduction I decided to stop right there and start again once I have some Proviron on hand.

My question to you is simply, put: Did you experience any discomfort in the testicles while running this and if so did it go away when you took the Proviron at the same time? Would you see anything wrong with running Proviron during the entire cycle if that were to eliviate the problem?

I appreciate any input you might have!

Thanks

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## BJJ

I never experienced any testicle discomfort.
You can run mesterolone along with oxandrolone, I see only benefits from that sinergy.

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## utryit

looks like its worth trying

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## licentiousness

BJJ. I have read many logs on here, while considering my first cycle and yours is certainly the most thorough. Many thanks for sharing the information.

To check my full understanding of it, you gained 19.89 lbs of LBM on an 8 weeks Anavar + Proviron cycle?

I had been considering such a cycle myself because it seems the best risk/reward cycle, but on virtually all the forums, if anyone mentions such a cycle, the other people cut them down and say that they should be doing a testosterone base, that they are stupid, that they must be scared of needles, that they won't keep any of their gains etc.

Would you recommend your cycle as a first time cycle and did you keep the gains that you made, even a few months after PCT?
Also are there any things that you would change on it, if you were doing it again now as your first cycle?

I would appreciate any further information.

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## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

Ok here is the thing I've been reading all over that var only is a verry bad idea... I wanted to try it any way and where I live pharma grade hgh and gear are legal so I thought I'll keep test prop on hand if just in case and what happened was the following I gained 15lbs of solid muscle no bloat no acne no shrinkage just softer feeling testicles no sides at all I even experienced a slight increase in sexual performance and recovery wasnt even noticeable as I was at least not fully shutdown if so.
I've been reading for more than ten years about all kinds of diet training and gear and I ended up taking the test prop 3 month after as a separate cycle I got big for my size but had minor sides that turned me off from test moon face and I snored like crazy and acne for me is un acceptable as it leaves scars even when it's gone it kind of ruins my appearance which is a part of why I use gear.
And I'm after the fitness model look I'm no body builder 

So gains and price aside what's so bad about it was an amazing experience for me?


I started 60 mgs daily with 2000 mgs tribulus and animal pack multy vitamin 10 days ago

I'm up 3 lbs of mass with 2% bf drop already 

Any suggestions 

Is it harder to recover natural test if u get partial shutdown from var than if u get fully shut down from test???

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## licentiousness

Mr Prop Var Testen,
Just to clarify, is your current cycle your 3rd cycle then (2nd with Var?)
If so, what was your dosage etc and PCT for your first cycle where you gained the 15lbs?
Also which country? I'm UK, so it's legal to possess, just not to sell.

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## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

> Mr Prop Var Testen,
> Just to clarify, is your current cycle your 3rd cycle then (2nd with Var?)
> If so, what was your dosage etc and PCT for your first cycle where you gained the 15lbs?
> Also which country? I'm UK, so it's legal to possess, just not to sell.


Pct was 40/20 nolva. 100/50 clomid
I'm from Cairo Egypt

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## licentiousness

Thanks. I appreciate you replying. Could you perhaps help me a little more by specifying Var mg and also the weeks for PCT?

I was thinking about the below cycle, but am unsure of PCT amounts and timings...

8 weeks of Var at 50mg then...
PCT:
Day 1: Clom 100mg + Nolv 40mg
Day 2- Day 12: Clom 50mg + Nolv 20mg
Day 12-Day 21: Nolv 20mg
Day 21-28: Nolv 10mg

Also did you run anything during your cycle apart from Var?

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## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

> Thanks. I appreciate you replying. Could you perhaps help me a little more by specifying Var mg and also the weeks for PCT?
> 
> I was thinking about the below cycle, but am unsure of PCT amounts and timings...
> 
> 8 weeks of Var at 50mg then...
> PCT:
> Day 1: Clom 100mg + Nolv 40mg
> Day 2- Day 12: Clom 50mg + Nolv 20mg
> Day 12-Day 21: Nolv 20mg
> ...



I'm no expert but I don't overdoing pct drugs I did 40/20 nolva 10/50 clomid as I didn't feel shut down at all I even got bigger during the second week of pct as I started bulking after the cycle was done and gained from 75 to 78 mostly fat but kept all my muscle and that was my most important goal
And I only plan to do one mild test free cycle a year I don't need to completely recover during pct though I myself didn't feel shutdown at all.... Good luck

----------


## BJJ

> BJJ. I have read many logs on here, while considering my first cycle and yours is certainly the most thorough. Many thanks for sharing the information.
> 
> To check my full understanding of it, you gained 19.89 lbs of LBM on an 8 weeks Anavar + Proviron cycle?
> 
> I had been considering such a cycle myself because it seems the best risk/reward cycle, but on virtually all the forums, if anyone mentions such a cycle, the other people cut them down and say that they should be doing a testosterone base, that they are stupid, that they must be scared of needles, that they won't keep any of their gains etc.
> 
> Would you recommend your cycle as a first time cycle and did you keep the gains that you made, even a few months after PCT? *yes i would and kept all of my gains*
> Also are there any things that you would change on it, if you were doing it again now as your first cycle? *I would add a low dose of test sust to keep the testosterone level balanced*
> 
> I would appreciate any further information.


*bold*

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## Phased

Best GD thread I have ever read on Var alone.

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