# STEROIDS FORUM > HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY- Low T, Anti-Aging >  Reducing Cholesterol Experiment

## kelkel

Guys,

I thought some may find this interesting. I struggle with cholesterol issues due to heredity and have been on a non-statin for a while. The last two sets of BW I requested a VAP Cholesterol profile which is a more detailed breakdown. A similar profile called an NMR Lipo Profile is also available. Here's a link to the the VAP Profile:

http://www.medfusion.net/templates/g.../12677/VAP.pdf


Here are some of my results from 6 months ago and this week. Left and right respectively: 

6 mo ago.............................................. Current

LDL...............131........ Range......<130.......99
LDL-R............119.......................<100...... 89
Triglycerides.....76.......................<150... ... 63
Non HDL Chol..147.......................<160......113
IDL...................9...................... < 20.........7

Most interesting to me is the *LDL Density Pattern* which gives a scale like below:

old level 
[______________*_______] [____________] [______________________]

Pattern B..........................Pattern A/B.........Pattern A
Small, Dense LDL (bad)................................Large, buoyant LDL (good)

New level
[_____________________] [__*__________] [______________________]

Pattern B..........................Pattern A/B.........Pattern A
Small, Dense LDL (bad)................................Large, buoyant LDL (good


Old density pattern was termed as *"abnormal"* which always makes you feel good. I wasn't labeled on this new one, but I'm thrilled it has improved. Naturally I immediately thought of this:

Mel Brooks' Young Frankenstein - "Whose Brain I did put in?" - YouTube


But back on topic. The changes I made were the following:

1. NAC 600mg 2-3 x per day
2. Slo-Niacin 750mg at bedtime
3. Red Yeast Rice 1200mg 2-3 times per day
4. Eliminated all sugar. Basically just meant no sugar in my coffee.

NAC:
Dose-related increase of HDL-cholester... [Pharmacol Res. 1993 Oct-Nov] - PubMed - NCBI 

RYR:
Powdered red yeast rice and plant stanols and s... [J Diet Suppl. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI 

Niacin:
Niacin and cholesterol: role in cardiovascula... [J Nutr Biochem. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI
Using Niacin to Improve Cardiovascular Health - Life Extension 

Sugar:
Influence of dietary carbohydrate and f... [Curr Atheroscler Rep. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI 



Anyway, just wanted to share my progress with hopes it can enlighten or encourage others with the same struggle. I encourage everyone with issues to read anything from Dr. Stephen Sinatra. Google or Youtube him. His book, "The Great Cholesterol Myth" is top notch. Crisler, btw, considers him the best in his field.

Kel

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## gatornate97

Thanks for sharing,Kel
I'm particularly interested in this given I have high BP hereditarily. 
So, I did have moderately high Chol then started taking a statin, got it under control, then my last BW it started trending back. So I have been taking the NAC 600mg x1
I will take the slo niacin next. 
Thanks for the protocol.

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## Giggle

That's great Kel. I've been reading about that breakdown and I was going to ask for it next time.
Nice improvement! I didn't know NAC would raise HDLs. I'm glad to hear it.

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## austinite

Awesome kelkel. Thanks for sharing the results and doses. Seems like you attacked lipids with full force using those 3 combo's. Many folks aren't familiar with the three and they most certainly do work. Great combination. 

Goooooooooooo supplements! I see they added some vascularity too, oh wait.. there's no room for more on your body.  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## JinNtonic

That's awesome thanks for sharing. Mine is high I take nac and niacin. Hope they help.

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## kelkel

Shameless bump as I'm sure there are more here with cholesterol issues. Fess up.

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## CaptainSuperAwesome

Thanks!

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## TraceMYD

Good stuff Kel! 

How long do you run this protocol for? Any downtime or breaks needed from any of those 3?

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## bass

thanks for sharing Kel! glad it worked for you.

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## j2048b

> Guys,
> 
> I thought some may find this interesting. I struggle with cholesterol issues due to heredity and have been on a non-statin for a while. The last two sets of BW I requested a VAP Cholesterol profile which is a more detailed breakdown. A similar profile called an NMR Lipo Profile is also available. Here's a link to the the VAP Profile:
> 
> http://www.medfusion.net/templates/g.../12677/VAP.pdf
> 
> 
> Here are some of my results from 6 months ago and this week. Left and right respectively: 
> 
> ...


u stated u were on a non statin? was it in fact the supps u listed or was it a definete doc prescribed non statin?

i request a vap everytime i go in now because my last chol level was at a 309 total and like 197 ldl, but what was odd or great i guess was that my * was all the way over on the large boyant type ldl so the doc said clean up the diet, ur ldl is boyant and fluffy and just like kittens on clouds haha, i laughed at that...

so i might have to copy ur list and give it a whirl and also clean up this dang diet yet again, sugar is my crutch...

thanks for sharing...

also a great read is :
the great cholesterol myth, 

both authors have been saying for years before the fda jumped on the cholesterol bandwagon, that sugar causes high cholesterol, not the other way around, time to cut out the sugar!!

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## vmons01

My lipid profile has improved dramatically since I started TRT. I went from a total cholesterol of 248 down to 179 in 1.5 years. All other lipid related numbers moved downward as dramatically as well. I too suffer from hereditary cholesterol issues.

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## kelkel

> u stated *u were on a non statin? was it in fact the supps u listed or was it a definete doc prescribed non statin?
> 
> Been on the non-statin for years. Progress came about from the supps. No question about it.
> *
> i request a vap everytime i go in now because my last chol level was at a 309 total and like 197 ldl, but what was odd or great i guess was that my * was all the way over on the large boyant type ldl so the doc said clean up the diet, ur ldl is boyant and fluffy and just like kittens on clouds haha, i laughed at that...
> 
> *Funny but the buoyant is the good stuff as you know.*
> 
> so i might have to copy ur list and give it a whirl and also clean up this dang diet yet again, sugar is my crutch...
> ...


*Absolutely agree*

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## j2048b

> My lipid profile has improved dramatically since I started TRT. I went from a total cholesterol of 248 down to 179 in 1.5 years. All other lipid related numbers moved downward as dramatically as well. I too suffer from hereditary cholesterol issues.


how did u do this? because since ive been on trt mine has gotten worse!

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## j2048b

kel,

i got to ask what non statin it was because my doc wanted me to go on something, and i told him no. and now that they are finally comming out and saying statins do nothing for u, it really makes me not want to get on anything but the supps...

but i have to aslo wonder because u were on it for so long, if maybe perhaps it did wrk to an extent?



do u have a good source for these supps? or did u buy them all in different plces?

thanks i need to get on these asap!

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## vmons01

> how did u do this? because since ive been on trt mine has gotten worse!


Honestly, I don't know. For years my cholesterol numbers steadily climbed to a max of 248. I started TRT and the numbers just collapsed. The only other difference is the intensity of my workouts. I crossfit 5 days a week with very high intensity. I also don't eat out as much, but my diet isn't perfect by no means. 

Doesn't TRT improve one's lipid profile?

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## kelkel

> Honestly, I don't know. For years my cholesterol numbers steadily climbed to a max of 248. I started TRT and the numbers just collapsed. The only other difference is the intensity of my workouts. I crossfit 5 days a week with very high intensity. I also don't eat out as much, but my diet isn't perfect by no means. 
> 
> *Doesn't TRT improve one's lipid profile?*


Not necessarily. Your cardio does though.

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## kelkel

> kel,
> 
> i got to ask what non statin it was because my doc wanted me to go on something, and i told him no. and now that they are finally comming out and saying statins do nothing for u, it really makes me not want to get on anything but the supps...
> 
> but i have to aslo wonder because u were on it for so long, if maybe perhaps it did wrk to an extent?
> 
> 
> 
> do u have a good source for these supps? or did u buy them all in different plces?
> ...


Welchol is the non-statin. Been on it for years but you can see what my numbers were while on it (still shitty.) It's the protocol that helped, hands down. I like NOW products from Amazon but you can get them anywhere.

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## 38onTRT

Processed foods and SUGAR are the main reasons America is so Obese. The drug Companies LOVE it as they sell more statins and High BP meds.. Ditch the sugar and processed foods and change your life. The Paleo way of eating is the only way to go, IMHO.. It has changed my life along with countless others in my family/ friends circle. 

Reduce your risk of heart disease and cancer by simply changing what you eat. 

Dont let unhealthy foods control your life. 

DO your research and get rid of the inflammation in your body. It is simply that easy!!!!

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## kelkel

> Processed foods and SUGAR are the main reasons America is so Obese. The drug Companies LOVE it as they sell more statins and High BP meds.. * Ditch the sugar* and processed foods and change your life. The Paleo way of eating is the only way to go, IMHO.. It has changed my life along with countless others in my family/ friends circle. 
> 
> Reduce your risk of heart disease and cancer by simply changing what you eat. 
> 
> Dont let unhealthy foods control your life. 
> 
> DO your research and get rid of the inflammation in your body. It is simply that easy!!!!


Very well said!

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## kelkel

Here's some interesting links:

https://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2013/feb2013_br_01.htm

Eliminate 82% of Cardiovascular Events with These 5 Principles - YouTube

Just use google, ton's of good stuff by these guys. Very enlightening to say the least.

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## 38onTRT

Inflammation.

Reduce your bodies inflammation and watch your body GROW while shedding the unwanted body fat. Our bodies NEED cholesterol in order to survive. Our brains need it. Reduce the inflammation in your blood vessels to let the cholesterol flow freely through them. 

High Triglycerides = High Sugar Intake INCLUDING Alcoholic beverages. The least harmful alcohol you can drink is White Tequila. 

Guys its really really simple. Ditch the sugar, alcohol, dairy, Legumes(Beans) and pasta for 30 days and see what happens. 

You can always have some in moderation later, however your body will hate you for it.. 

If you really want to take it to the next level read the book "It Starts With Food". This book will change your life. I frickin guarantee it. $9 Amazon Kindle Edition for iPad. I read the book in 2 days while working 10 hour days with a family of 4. You will not put the iPad down. 




> Here's some interesting links:
> 
> https://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2013/feb2013_br_01.htm
> 
> Eliminate 82% of Cardiovascular Events with These 5 Principles - YouTube
> 
> Just use google, ton's of good stuff by these guys. Very enlightening to say the least.

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## kelkel

I particularly liked the info about comparing triglycerides to HDL as an indicator of potential heart attacks. I grabbed right for my most recent BW.. I'm a 2. Yeah!

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## j2048b

> Guys,
> 
> I thought some may find this interesting. I struggle with cholesterol issues due to heredity and have been on a non-statin for a while. The last two sets of BW I requested a VAP Cholesterol profile which is a more detailed breakdown. A similar profile called an NMR Lipo Profile is also available. Here's a link to the the VAP Profile:
> 
> http://www.medfusion.net/templates/g.../12677/VAP.pdf
> 
> 
> Here are some of my results from 6 months ago and this week. Left and right respectively: 
> 
> ...


kel,
can u give me links as to where u purchased the items in order for me to experiment with this protocal? my doc said he would ok my own experiment, anfter 3 months if my total and ldl have not gone down he will script me something as mine has been high, since 2006!! highest it got was 309 total!! lowered it to 239 total in 2-3 months just b diet alone!!

i know if i go back on the diet that helped lower it, and cut out sugar and added in the supps u mentioned it would def help!!

thanks
j

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## AnabolicBoy1981

I've done the real niacin at 1-1.5g/day even up to 3g as an experiment. My hdl was 85 when i did that lol
im usually around 70ish
Niacin is no joke. It has actually been shown to reverse arterial plaque with statins in an 8 month period, but hey maybe given enough time can do the same by itself or with red yeast rice. It also opens arteries and blood vessels. it has been shown to reduce heart damage if given immediatly after a heart attack. It absolutely will increase vascularity, but you already have to have veins and be lean, but existing veins are bigger and some smaller ones show up. I used to feel like it took a few weeks to do this, but now i feel it happens right away. Maybe because i dont avoid the flush and i slam 500 from the get go. 
Other than that, pantethnic acid
Vite -e
And like 8-10 fish oils a day
thats my lil stack. Need to try the red yeast rice tho but didnt because its so similar to a statin i didnt want the muscle weakness. idk, have to read up on it

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## tejaswolf

I'm on a statin and on one for BP. One of my goals in TRT is to get off them. Holidays play hell trying to eat right but they'll be gone soon. Supplements are being added to my stocking list now.

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## kelkel

> kel,
> can u give me links as to where u purchased the items in order for me to experiment with this protocal? my doc said he would ok my own experiment, anfter 3 months if my total and ldl have not gone down he will script me something as mine has been high, since 2006!! highest it got was 309 total!! lowered it to 239 total in 2-3 months just b diet alone!!
> 
> i know if i go back on the diet that helped lower it, and cut out sugar and added in the supps u mentioned it would def help!!
> 
> thanks
> j


I usually just use Amazon so I get them all in one shot. Remember, sugar is the devil here. Cut it out. All of it! Pick up Dr. Stephen Sinatra's book "The Cholesterol Myth" and give it a read. Dr. Crisler, one of the most renowned TRT guys told me a couple days ago that he is personal friends with Sinatra and that if he ever had an issue, chol or cardiac, that is who he would see. Impressive comment IMHO. 

http://www.betternutrition.com/lower...solutions/1225




> I've done the real niacin at 1-1.5g/day even up to 3g as an experiment. My hdl was 85 when i did that lol
> im usually around 70ish
> Niacin is no joke. It has actually been shown to reverse arterial plaque with statins in an 8 month period, but hey maybe given enough time can do the same by itself or with red yeast rice. It also opens arteries and blood vessels. it has been shown to reduce heart damage if given immediatly after a heart attack. It absolutely will increase vascularity, but you already have to have veins and be lean, but existing veins are bigger and some smaller ones show up. I used to feel like it took a few weeks to do this, but now i feel it happens right away. Maybe because i dont avoid the flush and i slam 500 from the get go. 
> Other than that, pantethnic acid
> Vite -e
> And like 8-10 fish oils a day
> thats my lil stack. Need to try the red yeast rice tho but didnt because its *so similar to a statin i didnt want the muscle weakness*. idk, have to read up on it


Yes, it is. I personally did not experience any and suggest every few months taking some time off from RYR. It's what I'm doing anyway.

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## j2048b

> I usually just use Amazon so I get them all in one shot. Remember, sugar is the devil here. Cut it out. All of it! Pick up Dr. Stephen Sinatra's book "The Cholesterol Myth" and give it a read. Dr. Crisler, one of the most renowned TRT guys told me a couple days ago that he is personal friends with Sinatra and that if he ever had an issue, chol or cardiac, that is who he would see. Impressive comment IMHO.


ok nice! i did pick up the book as an early Christmas present to my and my health!! im addicted to chewing gum thru out the day especially after meals, its almost impossible for me to dump that bit of sugar even tho i know whats in the gum is total crap, im a sugar addict! love junk food, 

what is a good way to purge the body of sugar? and eventually quit eating it? elimination diet perhaps?

i did use amazon and believe it all came from vitacost except the slo niacin...

thanks!!

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## Pale1

I've battled the cholesterol problem for years. Dietary changes seem to do very little to improve my levels, but I still eat clean 90% of the time anyway. Probably Paleo 90% of the time & I NEVER eat any processed sugars. I do still eat yams, even though Paleo guidelines do not allow it, but it grows in the ground & is un-processed so I really don't think they're all that bad. 

Over the years, I have slowly introduced new supplements & always get the bloodwork done after each increase so I know whether or not what I'm doing is actually working or not. This supplement is slightly pricy, but had a nice effect on my cholesterol levels:
Naturally Lower Your Cholesterol By 30 Pts. In 30 Days
I have titrated my way up to 6 caps/ day. Although it helped a lot, I still had room for improvement, so I started SLOWLY adding in niacin, 200mg's at a time. I'm now up 900 mg's niacin/ daily. This has my levels right where I want them.

Niacin users, I will tell you this: DO NOT use niacinamide! It does nothing to help lower cholesterol! Check your niacin to make sure that is not what is in it. & also get your liver values checked after each dosage increase, but give yourself at least 3 months before checking to both give the niacin time to work & to also give your liver time to adjust, b/c your liver values will get a little spikey in the short term but seem to level back off over time.

Here is the niacin I use:

Lindberg - Niacin 100 Mg 100 Tablets - Save 33%

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## thisAngelBites

I'm enjoying this whole thread as I also have a genetic propensity for lipid problems.

I've just started NAC, but this new info about niacin is fascinating, and I've never supplemented with it.

There was a comment in the thread about female libido where someone else said it increased intensity of women's orgasm, because it increases blood flow. That's a happy enough side effect, but its also got me wondering about Alzheimer's disease, because in addition to lipid problems, there is reduced blood flow in the brain in those cases. So I'm off to do some research, but thanks for the inspiring thread kelkel and other contributors!

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## kelkel

You're welcome Angel. And congrats on the promo! I appreciate what you put forth here.

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## kelkel

> I've battled the cholesterol problem for years. Dietary changes seem to do very little to improve my levels, but I still eat clean 90% of the time anyway. Probably Paleo 90% of the time & I NEVER eat any processed sugars. I do still eat yams, even though Paleo guidelines do not allow it, but it grows in the ground & is un-processed so I really don't think they're all that bad. 
> 
> Over the years, I have slowly introduced new supplements & always get the bloodwork done after each increase so I know whether or not what I'm doing is actually working or not. This supplement is slightly pricy, but had a nice effect on my cholesterol levels:
> Naturally Lower Your Cholesterol By 30 Pts. In 30 Days
> I have titrated my way up to 6 caps/ day. Although it helped a lot, I still had room for improvement, so I started SLOWLY adding in niacin, 200mg's at a time. I'm now up 900 mg's niacin/ daily. This has my levels right where I want them.
> 
> Niacin users, I will tell you this: DO NOT use niacinamide! It does nothing to help lower cholesterol! Check your niacin to make sure that is not what is in it. & also get your liver values checked after each dosage increase, but give yourself at least 3 months before checking to both give the niacin time to work & to also give your liver time to adjust, b/c your liver values will get a little spikey in the short term but seem to level back off over time.
> 
> Here is the niacin I use:
> ...


Did you consider "Slo-Niacin" at all Pale?

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## thisAngelBites

> o 
> 
> what is a good way to purge the body of sugar? and eventually quit eating it? elimination diet perhaps?
> 
> thanks!!


I quit sugar, and the least painful method for me, was to quit all grains and sugar, and to only allow myself to eat fruit. This meant that there was no horrendous sugar withdrawal period (which in the past for me has been three or four days of feeling like death with bad headaches), as whenever I was craving sugar, I had a piece of fruit (I limited myself to healthier fruits, and didn't eat banana or mango, etc., high sugar fruits). There is only so much fruit you can eat (unlike sweet junk food), and the pattern was typically one day of a *lot* of fruit, and the amount of fruit decreased each day until after a few days I wasn't craving sugar, and instead felt good eating protein and healthy fats. I then found if I had a good amount of protein or fat, I could start having small bits of very dark chocolate, and berries without triggering cravings. But I cannot eat anything sweet or grainy on its own without cravings, so I make sure I always have a decent protein source in my bag, etc.

If I ever see myself getting out of hand and having more than a small amount of sugar, I go back to no grains or sugars except fruit, and I get back to normal quickly.

We're all different, but hope that is of some help to you. The comments earlier in the thread are spot on about the relation of sugar to triglycerides and inflammation, so minimising sugar is important to me.

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## thisAngelBites

Just to be clear - I meant I cut out all forms of sugar and grains from my diet and only ate protein and healthy fat. Not that I ONLY ate fruit.

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## thisAngelBites

> Did you consider "Slo-Niacin" at all Pale?


Kelkel, what's the benefit of slo niacin? I had a look but didn't see it explained in thread.

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## kelkel

Read this Angel. This sums it up nicely.

Using Niacin to Improve Cardiovascular Health - Life Extension

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## thisAngelBites

Uh oh, it was in the link! Sorry about that, but v good reading. Thanks; I'm ordering some now.

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## Pale1

....

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## Pale1

> Did you consider "Slo-Niacin" at all Pale?


I did, but I decided against it after reading that it may further stress the liver.

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## kelkel

> I did, but I decided against it after reading that it may further stress the liver.


Well, pretty much everything goes through the liver. Consider NAC as a daily supplement for liver support. It's an extremely healthy thing to take for many, many reasons.

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## Pale1

> Well, pretty much everything goes through the liver. Consider NAC as a daily supplement for liver support. It's an extremely healthy thing to take for many, many reasons.


That was a really informative article that you linked to above Kel. & it looks like maybe you & I may both be taking the wrong approach in dosing. I'm spreading mine out, which it advises against, & you're using slo niacin, which it also advises against.




> Extended-release niacin is a time-release preparation, but does not act as slowly as slow-release niacin. This makes it safer than the slow-release preparations that can cause liver side effects. Extended-release niacin also provokes fewer hot flushes than immediate-release niacin.


EDIT!!!: I see that you ARE IN FACT using one of the suggested forms of niacin. I was confusing SLO & SLOW. Not the same apparently.

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## Pale1

Also from the LEF article:




> There are two safe forms of niacin:
> •Immediate-release/crystalline niacin is available as a nutritional supplement and is inexpensive and effective. The niacin in each table is released immediately and usually provokes a “hot flush,” a warm, itchy feeling of the skin. For this reason, starting at small doses, such as 250 mg, can be helpful. The dose can be increased gradually (by 250 mg every four weeks) to achieve the desired amount. Doses greater than 500 mg per day should be used only under medical supervision. Some people take their niacin in small doses, three or four times daily, to spread out the dose. This could be unsafe, and I recommend that patients never take immediate-release niacin more than twice a day. 
> •Extended-release niacin is a time-release preparation, but does not act as slowly as slow-release niacin. This makes it safer than the slow-release preparations that can cause liver side effects. Extended-release niacin also provokes fewer hot flushes than immediate-release niacin. An example is Slo-Niacin®, which is sold over the counter. Niaspan® is an extended-release niacin preparation sold as a prescription drug.

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## thisAngelBites

> That was a really informative article that you linked to above Kel. & it looks like maybe you & I may both be taking the wrong approach in dosing. I'm spreading mine out, which it advises against, & you're using slo niacin, which it also advises against.
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT!!!: I see that you ARE IN FACT using one of the suggested forms of niacin. I was confusing SLO & SLOW. Not the same apparently.


I thought the same thing! How tragic that they called it Slo Niacin instead of extended release or something, it is a confusing at first glance.  :Smilie:

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## kelkel

Quick update:

Directly below is from 6 months ago:


[_____________________] [__*__________] [______________________]

Pattern B..........................Pattern A/B.........Pattern A
Small, Dense LDL (bad)................................Large, buoyant LDL (good)



*Below is from 6 months later (this week)*


New level
[_____________________] [____________] [______*________________]

Pattern B..........................Pattern A/B.........Pattern A
Small, Dense LDL (bad)................................Large, buoyant LDL (good

Very happy with this progress. Went from small, dense particles labeled "abnormal" to the good stuff. Nice! Progress with supplements!

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## j2048b

> Quick update: Directly below is from 6 months ago: [_____________________] [__*__________] [______________________] Pattern B..........................Pattern A/B.........Pattern A Small, Dense LDL (bad)................................Large, buoyant LDL (good) Below is from 6 months later (this week) New level [_____________________] [____________] [______*________________] Pattern B..........................Pattern A/B.........Pattern A Small, Dense LDL (bad)................................Large, buoyant LDL (good Very happy with this progress. Went from small, dense particles labeled "abnormal" to the good stuff. Nice! Progress with supplements!


Damn brother thats amazing! What all r u taking now? I need to pm u and ask u a few diet q's as well! Because no matter what ive done mine is still high!!

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## kelkel

Read the whole thread j20. It's all there along with supporting links.
Still taking the same stuff but did switch a while ago to a RYR powder from overseas. This way it will have more of the natural statins still in it that are often removed in the states per the FDA. Even though they do a poor job of policing said removal.

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## j2048b

> Read the whole thread j20. It's all there along with supporting links. Still taking the same stuff but did switch a while ago to a RYR powder from overseas. This way it will have more of the natural statins still in it that are often removed in the states per the FDA. Even though they do a poor job of policing said removal.


Kel,

Ive read it all and even have all the supps u recommend, thats y i asked because i was not sure if it maybe the new RYR u had gotten... Thats all... Can u give me info on where to get said ryr? Thanks kel!

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## The_Crawfish

Good job Kel!

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## kelkel

> Kel,
> 
> Ive read it all and even have all the supps u recommend, thats y i asked because i was not sure if it maybe the new RYR u had gotten... Thats all... Can u give me info on where to get said ryr? Thanks kel!


This is it:

Amazon.com: Pure Chinese Red Yeast Rice Bulk Powder. (250G): Health & Personal Care

It tastes like shiat no matter what you mix it with. You don't need a scale, half a teaspoon is 1200mg's.

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## j2048b

> This is it: Amazon.com: Pure Chinese Red Yeast Rice Bulk Powder. (250G): Health & Personal Care It tastes like shiat no matter what you mix it with. You don't need a scale, half a teaspoon is 1200mg's.


Thank you kel!! Ill get me some!

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## kelkel

> Thank you kel!! Ill get me some!


You're welcome. Now, be consistent with your testing protocol and supplements and let us know how you do on this thread or pm me please. I'd love to see someone else make good progress as well.

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## j2048b

> You're welcome. Now, be consistent with your testing protocol and supplements and let us know how you do on this thread or pm me please. I'd love to see someone else make good progress as well.


will do, i just ordered the ryr u recommended and it will be here next week, so ill include it along with the rest of ur stack... 

NOTE:

im also starting up a new diet with "the scientist" who works with john meadows... name is trevor, is over on pm forums... so with that and these supps, im really hoping this cholesterol melts away!

ill keep this post updated, and also pm u if i forget to update here...

how often or when should one gauge their next blood work after starting this protocol?

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## kelkel

Something like this takes time. I simply retest it every six months during my normal doc visit. 
Remember to cut out sugar as well.

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## j2048b

> Something like this takes time. I simply retest it every six months during my normal doc visit. Remember to cut out sugar as well.


Will do man! Sugar is gonna be the hardest, but i know it leads to worse crap than most other stuff put into ur body! Ill keep u updated!

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## OdinsOtherSon

Bump

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## MuscleInk

Subscribed. Will come back to this later in the week when I get that TBI lecture out of the way. Interested in reading those links you've posted.

Great work as always big man.

MI

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## Slacker78

> Something like this takes time. I simply retest it every six months during my normal doc visit. 
> Remember to cut out sugar as well.


Kelkel, you mean to cut off all sugars with an high glycemic index ? I think you are concerning about this... i couldn't give up rice and pasta and... bananas..... :P

----------


## kelkel

For me it was simply cutting out the crap sugars. Sugar in coffee, junk, etc. Hell, I'd never give up rice, pasta's. Ever.

----------


## Beethoven

> For me it was simply cutting out the crap sugars. Sugar in coffee, junk, etc. Hell, I'd never give up rice, pasta's. Ever.


So do you use any kind of sweetener at all or no?

----------


## Slacker78

> So do you use any kind of sweetener at all or no?


I don't use any kind of sweetener  :Smilie:  

coffee: always bitter  :Wink: . If you mean raw sugar of sweetener, i don't use them at all.

----------


## Slacker78

I suppose that honey and jam are the worst evil being we talking of sugars.. isn't it ..... :P

----------


## lovbyts

Jam yes, honey not so much. If you need to use anything natural is the way to go.

----------


## kelkel

> So do you use any kind of sweetener at all or no?


None. Just cream in my coffee now. I don't think I could drink it with sugar anymore. You adapt and tastes change.

----------


## Trevtrev

This thread got me thinking. I'm going to get a VAP test in a few weeks and see what I find. 

Thanks Kel!

----------


## kelkel

Good Trev. Let me know how it goes. Google or youtube Dr. Stephen Sinatra and listen to some of his stuff or read his book. I referenced it above.

----------


## almostgone

> Guys,
> 
> I thought some may find this interesting. I struggle with cholesterol issues due to heredity and have been on a non-statin for a while. The last two sets of BW I requested a VAP Cholesterol profile which is a more detailed breakdown. A similar profile called an NMR Lipo Profile is also available. Here's a link to the the VAP Profile:
> 
> http://www.medfusion.net/templates/g.../12677/VAP.pdf
> 
> 
> Here are some of my results from 6 months ago and this week. Left and right respectively: 
> 
> ...



LMAO....I remember "Abby Normal" from Young Frankenstein. Glad this was bumped. I've never had a problem with my lipids using the generic LDL/HDL/tris testing, but never have had the "VAP" profile type test....yet. Time to do some reading.

----------


## lovbyts

Wow, numbers came down quite a bit. I also added Slow Niacin to my vitamin regiment a little over a month ago and I go in for my cholesterol test pretty soon. Mine has also always been high and they have me on low dose crestor (I know). My biggest problem is getting my good cholesterol (HDL) up. My bad use to be really high but I managed to get it down the last couple of years.

Haha, got to love Mel Brooks

----------


## < <Samson> >

Any suggestions on keeping this nasty ass red yeast shit down? This shat is straight horrid!

----------


## lovbyts

> Any suggestions on keeping this nasty ass red yeast shit down? This shat is straight horrid!


Cap it and drink lots of water.

I'm adding Policosanol to my Cholesterol regiment.

----------


## kelkel

> Any suggestions on keeping this nasty ass red yeast shit down? This shat is straight horrid!


I do mine with my middle of the night chocolate protein drink. It masks the nasty taste a little. Emphasis on little. Just remember it's for the greater good....

----------


## < <Samson> >

Also how long should this nasty ass shit be ran? I read through here & some one asked. But, I never seen a reply.

----------


## kelkel

Can't answer that. Only your continued BW can. Remember, although RYR's a supplement it contains monocolins that are known to block cholesterol. Specifically monocolin-K which is basically an herbal lovastatin. It's why the FDA regulated this aspect out of it as well as making them advertise it differently. It's also why for maximum benefit it must be bought over-seas. All that said, use caution as you should with any supplement.

----------


## jimmyinkedup

I just throw it in my mouth and chug some water. You get used to it. The best affirmation I got re this was Kels contacting me with his improvement after using the RYR supp I was using which corresponded with my personal improvements as well. Thanks so much for putting this out there with all this detail kel. Great info. Actually should be stickied IMO.

----------


## < <Samson> >

Well, I am def not a fan of this shit's nastiness . . . . But, if it works - it works



Seems like a damn solid regimen to me

Edit:

I think I got a fairly decent method for drinking this nastiness. I mixed it with about 8oz's of ice cold water & my glutamine. Mix it real well, so there is no nasty ass clumps. Not that bad.


So, 2x a day is enough for NAC & the Red Nasty right?

----------


## kelkel

When I switched to RYR overseas powder I dropped back to once per day. So app 1200mgs. So far, so good. Maybe start at once per day and when you pull BW get the expanded NMR or VAP Profile to see where you're at.

----------


## < <Samson> >

One Niacin flush later & I seem to be fine


That was an interesting one, since last night was the 1st time I took the 750mg of Niacin. Dunno, if I should take another 750, or just half.

----------


## kelkel

Reread this from post #1:

Using Niacin to Improve Cardiovascular Health - Life Extension

Tips in it for dealing with the flush near the bottom.

----------


## The Noose

After reading this thread yesterday, I asked the Dr. for a script for Niaspan as my HDL is low, VLDL is high, and triglycerides are also high. He told me that he would not prescribe Niaspan. He didn't like it because the flush was too great for most of his patients. Instead he prescribed Fenofribrate. I told him I could mitigate the flush with a couple of glasses of water and a baby aspirin and he said no way - very frustrating. On a positive note, I went straight to the bookstore after the Dr appointment and bought a copy of the book, The Great Cholesterol Myth. Thanks kelkel. A lot of us guys really look up to you.

----------


## kelkel

No worries and glad to help Noose! Be sure to get that expanded profile on your next BW! You'll like the book.
Did you consider just picking up SLO-Niacin? Available OTC at many pharmacies or on-line.

----------


## < <Samson> >

Yeah, I read that when I was red as a beet 


Took a baby aspirin and drank about a liter of water right before eating my late night chicken. 

Noticed just a little of a flush which lasted about 10 minutes - no biggie

----------


## < <Samson> >

You sir are the man. . . My lipids are all well withing range now after 2 months of following your exact regimen. Since then I have ran even more gear, hear & there. Yet, my #'s are tits!


Now:
Cholesterol, Total 156
Triglycerides 80
Chol/HDL Ratio 4.1
HDL Cholesterol 38
Non HDL Cholesterol 118
LDL Calculated 102


Before:
Cholesterol, Total 198
Triglycerides 89
Chol/HDL Ratio 10.4
HDL Cholesterol 19
Non HDL Cholesterol 179
LDL Calculated xxx

----------


## j2048b

IM GLAD TO SEE A LOT OF PEOPLE RESpONDING WELL!! i for one, have not been able to lower my ldl or total cholesterol, no matter what i do, i did straight chicken, oatmeal, apple sauce diet for a couple months and it lowered to 239 total but my ldl WILL NOT COME DOWN BELOW 170..... ive tried ur regimen as well kel to no avail, my next venture is into the land of misfit injectables :Frown: inject able curcumin, res, and and few others ) that have been shown to lower inflammation and lower cholesterol thru a few of the other injectibles i forgot the names of haha

im gonna hop back onto kels regimen 1 last time for a month or 2 and see if it helps, ive also added in albana, as its supposed to help with lipids and such, but my lipids NEVER GO UP...

i know cardio will help added along side this as well, so i got to quit being a keyboard warrior and get er done...

also do u believe flush niacin is better than the slo-niacin? perhaps in my case it might be better?

----------


## < <Samson> >

I forgot to mention - the only other thing I started with is blood letting 

No other dietary changes or anything else

----------


## kelkel

j2048b what RYR are you using?

----------


## < <Samson> >

I am going to carry on in this regimen. So far I see no negatives at all. The red yeast now tastes good to me - no joke. I drink it twice a day now. 

I also started taking the niacin in 2 parts. One in the day and one at night. Sometimes I do just the one. 

Still taking the NAC 2x every day. 

And I am keeping my fiber intake at about a 50 gram a day minimum. 


With the last test result my numbers are just as good if not better than before I even touched any gear at all.

----------


## kelkel

> The red yeast now tastes good to me - no joke.


Well that confirms that you have issues......

----------


## < <Samson> >

> Well that confirms that you have issues......



Shit, it's the only flavor I drink. Everything else is just water

----------


## j2048b

> j2048b what RYR are you using?


The stuff from hardrhino.... I believe its what u had told me to get thru pm's

----------


## kelkel

> The stuff from hardrhino.... I believe its what u had told me to get thru pm's


That's what I hoped to hear.

----------


## j2048b

> That's what I hoped to hear.


Y is that? Does it mean its bunk? Or still g2g? I got a ton haha and it has not seemed to help me?

Im also gonna try citrus bergamon next along w ip6 to hopefully help lower hematocrit as well as cholesterol....

----------


## kelkel

Meaning it's the right stuff. Look at your diet as well, particularly sugar intake.

----------


## j2048b

> Meaning it's the right stuff. Look at your diet as well, particularly sugar intake.


Will do thanks man! Also might need to theow in some good cardio as well

----------


## GirlyGymRat

I am going to start this stack. I was under impression red yeast rice is a pill but after reading Samson post seems he is using powder??? Not sure what to buy!

----------


## Ironweb

Great thread. Looking for ways to reduce mine and great ways shown here

----------


## kelkel

> I am going to start this stack. I was under impression red yeast rice is a pill but after reading Samson post seems he is using powder??? Not sure what to buy!


It's available in pill form but the US FDA has regulated out the use of natural statins that are in it. That makes it a guessing game if what you buy will be effective or worthless, imho. This is what you want:

http://www.amazon.com/Pure-Chinese-Y.../dp/B006M0HLH2

Cheap, horrible tasting, yet effective.

----------


## kelkel

Blood work from a couple weeks ago came back. Still holding the same density pattern with the same supplement protocol. 
So far, so good.



New level
[_____________________] [____________] [______*________________]

Pattern B..........................Pattern A/B.........Pattern A
Small, Dense LDL (bad)................................Large, buoyant LDL (good

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> It's available in pill form but the US FDA has regulated out the use of natural statins that are in it. That makes it a guessing game if what you buy will be effective or worthless, imho. This is what you want: http://www.amazon.com/Pure-Chinese-Y.../dp/B006M0HLH2 Cheap, horrible tasting, yet effective.


Thank you Kel! Glad I asked.  :Smilie:

----------


## < <Samson> >

> I am going to start this stack. I was under impression red yeast rice is a pill but after reading Samson post seems he is using powder??? Not sure what to buy!


It's no pill, it's a very strange tasting powder. At first I thought about capping it due the funky taste, but just stuck with the powder. Now, in some odd way I like it. . . . It's weirdest supp I tasted yet.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Blood work from a couple weeks ago came back. Still holding the same density pattern with the same supplement protocol. So far, so good. New level [_____________________] [____________] [______*________________] Pattern B..........................Pattern A/B.........Pattern A Small, Dense LDL (bad)................................Large, buoyant LDL (good


Great news. Nice.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> It's no pill, it's a very strange tasting powder. At first I thought about capping it due the funky taste, but just stuck with the powder. Now, in some odd way I like it. . . . It's weirdest supp I tasted yet.


Something wrong with you Samson. Tastes terrible!!!!

----------


## < <Samson> >

> Something wrong with you Samson. Tastes terrible!!!!


Doesn't it? First handful of times I could barely take it down & now I look forward to it. Wth? I know the shit is way gross. 

Oh well, I drink that crap 2x a day now. Along with taking psyllium husk 1-2x a day + NAC 2x a day & Slow Niacin once per day. 

Seems to be doing wonders - my #'s are great & I'm not miserable taking any of the stuff at all.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Doesn't it? First handful of times I could barely take it down & now I look forward to it. Wth? I know the shit is way gross. Oh well, I drink that crap 2x a day now. Along with taking psyllium husk 1-2x a day + NAC 2x a day & Slow Niacin once per day. Seems to be doing wonders - my #'s are great & I'm not miserable taking any of the stuff at all.


I have a question about this stack. So you are taking 1200mg twice daily dr a total of 2400, correct??

----------


## < <Samson> >

> I have a question about this stack. So you are taking 1200mg twice daily dr a total of 2400, correct??



Of what? The red east shit?

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Of what? The red east shit?


 yes the fowl tasting, doesn't mix well crap  :Smilie:

----------


## < <Samson> >

> yes the fowl tasting, doesn't mix well crap



Lmao - too funny

I do a rounded teaspoon at a time in about 4 ounces of water. I'd say at least 4-5x a week twice, the other days once.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Lmao - too funny I do a rounded teaspoon at a time in about 4 ounces of water. I'd say at least 4-5x a week twice, the other days once.


Ok thanks.

----------


## < <Samson> >

> Ok thanks.


No prob

As far as liking it - well, I guess it's an acquired taste

----------


## GirlyGymRat

Kel, do u suggest cycling NAC? There's a heavy metal thread in lounge and some ppl are suggesting they go on / off every 6 months

----------


## kelkel

> Kel, do u suggest cycling NAC? There's a heavy metal thread in lounge and some ppl are suggesting they go on / off every 6 months


I haven't seen anything scientific to suggest it's needed but if it makes a person feel better, so be it. Found this article the other day:

Dose-related increase of HDL-cholesterol levels after N-acetylcyste... - PubMed - NCBI

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> I haven't seen anything scientific to suggest it's needed but if it makes a person feel better, so be it. Found this article the other day: Dose-related increase of HDL-cholesterol levels after N-acetylcyste... - PubMed - NCBI


Thank you sir. I just started but not worried until you do  :Smilie:

----------


## mxbrewski

Kelkel I went to order the RYR and it appears to have been discontinued from the site. Have you been able to order it recently? And if it has, can you possibly recommend another brand?

----------


## kelkel

Where from? I just looked on Amazon and it shows up, although I did not try to order.

Hard Rhino Red Yeast Rice Bulk Powder.

----------


## mxbrewski

It was also on Amazon that I checked using your link, and it is still showing unavailable when I re-checked. Weird. Thx maybe just out of stock for the time being, but I checked Hard Rhino website and they do not show the product. Thank you for the response.

----------


## OdinsOtherSon

Update:
It appears the desired RYR, the pure Chinese form found at Hard Rh!no, is no longer available. I contacted H.R. several weeks ago. They informed me that it would be back in their inventory soon and was, at present, undergoing their, QA testing (whatever procedures they may use). But it has yet to show back up. If it does, I'm highly doubtful it will be the same product they once handled but time will tell I suppose. As we all know, the "good stuff" of any product always seems to go the way of the dinosaurs.

----------


## kelkel

Hi Odin. Long time no see.

Hopefully it comes back like normal. They don't suffer all the restrictions like those produced in the states so lets hope it's their normal, quality product.

----------


## NACH3

I've never tried this RYR powder... Also am supplementing NAC 3x daily, Vit D3(2-4000iu daily), glucosamine/condroiten and a men's one a day, fish oil, magnesium chelated, zinc, Taurine, Vit b6(we get plenty of B3 in our food), B12, vit C... 

I want to get this RYR and try it out along w/Yohombine CHL(I hear it's good for Lower extremities - blood flow/circulation) anything for the uppers(arms or will that suffice? 
Thx...

----------


## kelkel

Be sure it's Methyl B12.
Blood flow / circulation = arginine & citruline or low dose cialis.

----------


## NACH3

> Be sure it's Methyl B12.
> Blood flow / circulation = arginine & citruline or low dose cialis.


Thx Kel for the tips(argenine & Cutruline - would you still supplement arginine tabs even if it's in my BCAAs and ON GS shks)?? It must act in a different manner?? Yup the Jarrows since I can't get inj... Looking at a RC if they carry inj b12(or another place) just have to do a quick search...

forgot to list cialis(5mg ed)  :Wink:  that's why the NAC(also running an oral atm) but for the oxidation as it causes me some low back aches and leg aches...

Edit** got it.... Thx again!!!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Thx Kel for the tips(argenine & Cutruline - would you still supplement arginine tabs even if it's in my BCAAs and ON GS shks)?? It must act in a different manner?? Yup the Jarrows since I can't get inj... Looking at a RC if they carry inj b12(or another place) just have to do a quick search... forgot to list cialis(5mg ed)  that's why the NAC(also running an oral atm) but for the oxidation as it causes me some low back aches and leg aches... Edit** got it.... Thx again!!!


Do I need to take cialis?

----------


## NACH3

> Do I need to take cialis?


Why you ask ? I know it helps w/BP, blood flow(now  :Wink: ) makes sense... It helps w/vascularity, Prostate(relaxes the muscles and I believe there's tons of nerves bundled around it), great pumps in the gym - it's almost like a pre w/o taking it b4 the gym...It can give some bad aches in your back(low), heartburn, my legs ache aswell) That's whyvi take NAC also(besides the oral) throughout the day w/vit C as it helps w/yhose aches(through oxidation w/the NAC/& Vit C has has been working...

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Why you ask ? I know it helps w/BP, blood flow(now ) makes sense... It helps w/vascularity, Prostate(relaxes the muscles and I believe there's tons of nerves bundled around it), great pumps in the gym - it's almost like a pre w/o taking it b4 the gym...It can give some bad aches in your back(low), heartburn, my legs ache aswell) That's whyvi take NAC also(besides the oral) throughout the day w/vit C as it helps w/yhose aches(through oxidation w/the NAC/& Vit C has has been working...


I thought this protocol changed.  :Smilie:

----------


## NACH3

> I thought this protocol changed.


With what? It's working but im all ears for better ways  :Smilie:

----------


## kelkel

> Thx Kel for the tips(argenine & Cutruline - would you still supplement arginine tabs even if it's in my BCAAs and ON GS shks)?? It must act in a different manner?? Yup the Jarrows since I can't get inj... Looking at a RC if they carry inj b12(or another place) just have to do a quick search...
> 
> forgot to list cialis(5mg ed)  that's why the NAC(also running an oral atm) but for the oxidation as it causes me some low back aches and leg aches...
> 
> Edit** got it.... Thx again!!!


If already running low dose cialis there's really no need to do both, imho, although I know some who do.

----------


## NACH3

> If already running low dose cialis there's really no need to do both, imho, although I know some who do.


Ok... I was hoping Cialis By itself would be just as effective... thx for chiming back in

----------


## ermasta

> Update:
> It appears the desired RYR, the pure Chinese form found at Hard Rh!no, is no longer available. I contacted H.R. several weeks ago. They informed me that it would be back in their inventory soon and was, at present, undergoing their, QA testing (whatever procedures they may use). But it has yet to show back up. If it does, I'm highly doubtful it will be the same product they once handled but time will tell I suppose. As we all know, the "good stuff" of any product always seems to go the way of the dinosaurs.




seems to be available from their own website..i just don't know if the price was better thru amazon.

----------


## kelkel

I'm heading in for BW next week and will pull the vap cholesterol profile again. I stopped the RYR several months ago as I want to see how I hold up without it.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> I'm heading in for BW next week and will pull the vap cholesterol profile again. I stopped the RYR several months ago as I want to see how I hold up without it.


Please update this thread if there's a protocol change suggested. I do not like the taste of RYR.

----------


## kelkel

> Please update this thread if there's a protocol change suggested. I do not like the taste of RYR.


Oh it's atrocious. That's one reason I stopped it but the main reason is to see if I hold on to the gains I made without it. If not, it'll go back in my protein drinks which destroys the flavor.....

----------


## OdinsOtherSon

Hard Rhino now has the Chinese RYR in stock!!!

----------


## kelkel

Update:

As stated I stopped the RYR maybe 3-4 months prior to blood work I just had done. The goal was to see if I could hold onto the positive changes I made without using it and thus, eliminate it from my protocol. Well my BW came back great! My LDL particle size remained "Pattern A, Large Buoyant LDL" so I'm excited about it. It means I'm holding that level without the use of the natural statins in RYR. 

My doc is very happy with this as well. Only time will tell if it holds there until my next BW in six months, but I see no reason why it should not. So far this experiment has validated the use of this protocol, imho. Hopefully it works for someone else as well.

----------


## OdinsOtherSon

kelkel, did you maintain the niacin and NAC, less the ryr?

----------


## kelkel

Exactly. I don't see myself giving up on either of those two. NAC is too good an overall supplement and the SloNiacin helps my HDL. 
Main thing Odin is getting that VAP or NMR Lipo Profile. It's the only way to track particle size.

----------


## OdinsOtherSon

Yes, I totally agree. It's a shame you have to request that particle size be monitored. I also take NAC as a daily sup for other benefits as well. I also take Vitamin C with the NAC. I've read that it helps to reduce the oxidation of the NAC. Not sure about the validity of that but I look at Vit C like I do NAC...it's too cheap with too many positives to not incorporate. 

Thank you for sharing your experiences and knowledge kelkel!

----------


## NACH3

> Hard Rhino now has the Chinese RYR in stock!!!


I'm already on NAC/Vit C/cilias etc, etc... I've been looking into this RYR... I've seen pill form - but I'm thinking the powder is the way to go, correct?! Based on its horrible taste im definitely assuming it's powder lol... Best place to get is HR? Thx fellas

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> I'm already on NAC/Vit C/cilias etc, etc... I've been looking into this RYR... I've seen pill form - but I'm thinking the powder is the way to go, correct?! Based on its horrible taste im definitely assuming it's powder lol... Best place to get is HR? Thx fellas


Yes. The powder. I ordered mine thru amazon.

----------


## kelkel

> Yes, I totally agree. It's a shame you have to request that particle size be monitored. I also take NAC as a daily sup for other benefits as well. I also take Vitamin C with the NAC. I've read that it helps to reduce the oxidation of the NAC. Not sure about the validity of that but I look at Vit C like I do NAC...it's too cheap with too many positives to not incorporate. 
> 
> Thank you for sharing your experiences and knowledge kelkel!


To me and from all my readings the LDL particle size is one of the most important aspects. It's what originally enlightened me to make the changes that I did. I highly recommend you check yours if possible to see what's really going on inside of you.





> I'm already on NAC/Vit C/cilias etc, etc... I've been looking into this RYR... I've seen pill form - but I'm thinking the powder is the way to go, correct?! Based on its horrible taste im definitely assuming it's powder lol... Best place to get is HR? Thx fellas


You don't want U.S. made RYR as the natural statins are removed from it per the FDA.

----------


## NACH3

> To me and from all my readings the LDL particle size is one of the most important aspects. It's what originally enlightened me to make the changes that I did. I highly recommend you check yours if possible to see what's really going on inside of you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't want U.S. made RYR as the natural statins are removed from it per the FDA.


Thx Kel/Girly! So would Amazon be ok then to order from or do you suggest somewhere else? Obviously the whole point is for the statins...

----------


## GirlyGymRat

I don't see it available on Amazon anymore but can buy it from hard rhino dot com. No space between hard and rhino.  :Smilie:

----------


## NACH3

> I don't see it available on Amazon anymore but can buy it from hard rhino dot com. No space between hard and rhino.


Thx Girly.... will be placing my order  :Smilie:

----------


## OdinsOtherSon

> I'm already on NAC/Vit C/cilias etc, etc... I've been looking into this RYR... I've seen pill form - but I'm thinking the powder is the way to go, correct?! Based on its horrible taste im definitely assuming it's powder lol... Best place to get is HR? Thx fellas





> Yes. The powder. I ordered mine thru amazon.





> To me and from all my readings the LDL particle size is one of the most important aspects. It's what originally enlightened me to make the changes that I did. I highly recommend you check yours if possible to see what's really going on inside of you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't want U.S. made RYR as the natural statins are removed from it per the FDA.


NACH, as GGR and kelkel have already stated, the powder ryr from HR is the way to go. I honestly don't see how sup suppliers can sell the pill forms from the US as cholesterol lowering supps when the FDA has regulated the beneficial compound out of it.

----------


## NACH3

> NACH, as GGR and kelkel have already stated, the powder ryr from HR is the way to go. I honestly don't see how sup suppliers can sell the pill forms from the US as cholesterol lowering supps when the FDA has regulated the beneficial compound out of it.


Thx Odin... I was thinking the same thing  :Wink:

----------


## GingerbeardJ

When I tried ryr it made me sick as hell! Gave me flu like symptoms, nausea, and body cramps. Do you guys think my body just doesn't work will with it or it was a bunk product?

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> When I tried ryr it made me sick as hell! Gave me flu like symptoms, nausea, and body cramps. Do you guys think my body just doesn't work will with it or it was a bunk product?


Hard rhino powder has certificates for theirs which makes me think ryr is under dosed or faked.

----------


## OdinsOtherSon

> Hard rhino powder has certificates for theirs which makes me think ryr is under dosed or faked.


This^^

All ryr produced in the US have the natural statins removed via gov regulation. Like I said above, I don't see how most supplement vendors get away with peddling their ryr as such. In all honesty, there's no telling what you might have taken.

----------


## NACH3

> This^^
> 
> All ryr produced in the US have the natural statins removed via gov regulation. Like I said above, I don't see how most supplement vendors get away with peddling their ryr as such. In all honesty, there's no telling what you might have taken.


Well it's a great thing I never did, Odin! 

And exactly why I wanted to be sure! Thx brother!

----------


## ermasta

> Update:
> 
> As stated I stopped the RYR maybe 3-4 months prior to blood work I just had done. The goal was to see if I could hold onto the positive changes I made without using it and thus, eliminate it from my protocol. Well my BW came back great! My LDL particle size remained "Pattern A, Large Buoyant LDL" so I'm excited about it. It means I'm holding that level without the use of the natural statins in RYR. 
> 
> My doc is very happy with this as well. Only time will tell if it holds there until my next BW in six months, but I see no reason why it should not. So far this experiment has validated the use of this protocol, imho. Hopefully it works for someone else as well.


Congrats Kelkel!!

You give us hope my man...I am going to finish up my 30 day supply of Lipitor , check blood and get on your protocol.....

Thanks again!

----------


## DrewZ

> I haven't seen anything scientific to suggest it's needed but if it makes a person feel better, so be it. Found this article the other day:
> 
> Dose-related increase of HDL-cholesterol levels after N-acetylcyste... - PubMed - NCBI


I remember reading this thread awhile ago and referred to it for my father, he got some not so great numbers back and doc wants to put him on statins.

The chinese red rice yeast you linked is no longer available, any other options?

Thank you

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> I remember reading this thread awhile ago and referred to it for my father, he got some not so great numbers back and doc wants to put him on statins. The chinese red rice yeast you linked is no longer available, any other options? Thank you


You can buy directly from hard rhino dot com.  :Smilie:

----------


## kelkel

> Congrats Kelkel!!
> 
> You give us hope my man...I am going to finish up my 30 day supply of Lipitor , check blood and get on your protocol.....
> 
> Thanks again!


Be sure to get the VAP or NMR Profile run ermasta! Cut out sugar as well.

----------


## lovbyts

> You can buy directly from hard rhino dot com.


I noticed its made in China.... Do you thin it's OK/ I TRY to steer clear of anything especially supplements/food products that come from China.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> I noticed its made in China.... Do you thin it's OK/ I TRY to steer clear of anything especially supplements/food products that come from China.


If we buy the RYR from US, the satins are removed so the benefit is greatly diminished. 

Brand was recommended by Kelkel. He was using this same brand with amazing results. He's also a freak of nature, never diets or counts a calorie, no cardio and has freaking abs. I want to really dislike this member on so many levels.  :Smilie:

----------


## kelkel

> I want to really dislike this member on so many levels.


The line forms to the left.....

----------


## lovbyts

> If we buy the RYR from US, the satins are removed so the benefit is greatly diminished. 
> 
> Brand was recommended by Kelkel. He was using this same brand with amazing results. *He's also a freak of nature*, never diets or counts a calorie, no cardio and has freaking abs. I want to really dislike this member on so many levels.


Wait but just last week you were just saying he was a Freak.... 

 :Haha:  

Yeah I got that part about how the US takes out the natural statins. Figures and I know it's not the only thing they do that to that makes it pretty much useless. What do you think the chances are they do it because the drug companies (Cholesterol medication) paid them to do it?

----------


## lovbyts

Originally Posted by *GirlyGymRat*  

I want to really dislike this member on so many levels.  :Smilie: 





> The line forms to the left.....


I'm so confused.... Yes more than usual. I went through all 4 pages and can not find what or who she is referring to. Am I worried it's me? Yes you never know. It would not be the first time I inadvertently said something or two too piss of a member, especially female.  :2offtopic:

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> The line forms to the left.....


I would like a number please!!!  :Lips:

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Originally Posted by GirlyGymRat I want to really dislike this member on so many levels.  I'm so confused.... Yes more than usual. I went through all 4 pages and can not find what or who she is referring to. Am I worried it's me? Yes you never know. It would not be the first time I inadvertently said something or two too piss of a member, especially female.


It's not you love.

----------


## lovbyts

> Exactly. I don't see myself giving up on either of those two. NAC is too good an overall supplement and the SloNiacin helps my HDL.
> Main thing Odin is getting that VAP or NMR Lipo Profile. It's the only way to track particle size.


So do you think the ryr was not needed at all since you dont need it now or was it still a vehicle needed to get your levels to a healthy range?

----------


## kelkel

> So do you think the ryr was not needed at all since you dont need it now or was it still a vehicle needed to get your levels to a healthy range?


I think it was integral in getting me there due to the natural statins. My next BW in 6 months or so will tell the tale.

----------


## OdinsOtherSon

kelkel, quick question. Is the ryr more or less effective taken with or without food?

----------


## lovbyts

> I think it was integral in getting me there due to the natural statins. My next BW in 6 months or so will tell the tale.


How long did it take using the RYR and other stuff to get it down? I use everything you have mentioned although not 7 days a week, more like 4  :Frown:  
I'm going to add the RYR because nothing has helped much so far.

OK, Fine Ill go back to the beginning and check the 1st post and do the math. lol

Looks like just about 1yr using the RYR?

----------


## kelkel

I implemented the protocol after not liking my VAP Lipid Profile on page one, which was horrible. BW six months later moved me to middle ground then another 6 months I was in the good category if memory serves me correctly.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

One year. Omg. I really dislike the taste of this stuff. I drink it with the water and don't throw into a shake because ruins the taste of the shake!

----------


## kelkel

> One year. Omg. I really dislike the taste of this stuff. I drink it with the water and don't throw into a shake because ruins the taste of the shake!


Agree, tastes horrible. I hated what it did to protein drinks as well and did it your way after a while...

----------


## ermasta

> Be sure to get the VAP or NMR Profile run ermasta! Cut out sugar as well.




Yup, I will make sure I get that specific test ran. Not really into sweets so the only sugar I have is in my morning Coffee. I will update my BW thread once I see the doc.

BTW: I am also changing the protein drinks to Isolate, way too much cholesterol on regular whey.

----------


## OdinsOtherSon

Been mixing ryr with orange juice. Seems to go down easier for me that way.

----------


## kelkel

> Yup, I will make sure I get that specific test ran. Not really into sweets so the only sugar I have is in my morning Coffee. I will update my BW thread once I see the doc..


Get off sugar in your coffee as well. That was the hardest one for me but coffee is so much better now without it.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Get off sugar in your coffee as well. That was the hardest one for me but coffee is so much better now without it.


I don't drink coffee for a pleasing taste. I am all about the caffeine  :Smilie:

----------


## Pale1

I've been following a pretty hard core keto diet for the last 4 months. About 80 percent fat, the rest protein & trace carbs. Absolutely no sugars of any sort. Getting blood work done later this week & very interested to see how it effects the LDL particle size (my primary reason for doing it). The popular theory seems to be that it is the blood glucose that is causing LDL to oxidize & become small particle. I should have something to report soon.

----------


## kelkel

Pale1 do you have a prior lipo profile to gauge results?

----------


## Pale1

> Pale1 do you have a prior lipo profile to gauge results?


Yes I do. I'll be posting all those #'s up when I get these results. I'll give the blood sample this Thursday.

----------


## kelkel

Outstanding. Look forward to it.

----------


## Pale1

> Outstanding. Look forward to it.


As a little teaser, I have previously reduced my *Small LDL-P* from *914* (which put me in the high risk range), down to where I got it to before starting my keto experiment which was *350* (normal range but I'd still like to se it lower). I did this by lowering my carb intake & adding in a couple TBSP's of coconut oil per day. That is a pretty drastic improvement & that is also what encouraged me to just say **** it & go full keto to see what kind of results I can get from that.

----------


## kelkel

Interesting stuff Pale1. Have you monitored your CRP level along the way as well by chance?

----------


## Pale1

Yes I have. Fibrinogen also. I don't have the #'s in front of me but CRP has always stayed in check. I have used a tsp of fish oil/ day along with one Bayer aspirin for the last few years now. I've read research suggesting that both of these have a positive influence on CRP.

Other supps that I use for heart health are 1500 mg's niacin/ day (This made a drastic improvement in my HDL), lecithin granules & also CoQ10.

Back to the CRP subject, CRP being an inflammatory marker I would expect it to come down even more on a keto diet. I believe carbohydrates to be highly inflammatory, & another carbohydrate theory that I have recently read is that it is that same carbohydrate induced inflammation in the endothelial cell lining of the arteries that actually allows plaque to accumulate. With no inflammation, the large buoyant LDL particles would pass through harmlessly.

----------


## Who_Am_I

> With no inflammation, the large buoyant LDL particles would pass through harmlessly.


Agreed. I wrote this a while back and will post it here. It may or may not have been said already.




> There are several theories postulated to explain the underlying cause of atherosclerosis and the mechanisms of atherogenesis remain uncertain. The response-to-injury hypothesis is the most widely accepted proposal which proposes that vascular injury starts the atherosclerotic process. Normal arteries have a smooth lining and when this lining becomes irritated a cascade of events begins that results in atherosclerosis. The bodys immune system responds by producing inflammation within the artery, triggering certain cells to deposit cholesterol and other substances under the arterys lining, resulting in the development of lesions. The earliest pathologic lesion of atherosclerosis is known as a fatty streak. The fatty streak is the result of the accumulation of serum lipoproteins within the intima of the vessel wall. Once inside the vessel wall, LDL particles can become more prone to oxidation. Endothelial cells respond by attracting monocyte white blood cells, causing them to leave the blood stream, penetrate into the arterial walls and transform into macrophages. The macrophages' ingestion of oxidized LDL particles triggers a cascade of immune responses which over time can produce an atheroma (plaque) if HDL removal of fats from the macrophages does not keep up. Growth of the fibrous plaque results in vascular remodeling, progressive luminal narrowing, blood-flow abnormalities, and compromised oxygen supply to the target organ. Developing atherosclerotic plaques acquire their own microvascular network, the vasa vasorum, which are prone to hemorrhage and contribute to progression of atherosclerosis. If this plaque ruptures resulting in a thrombus formation, a partial or complete occlusion of the blood vessel may occur presenting with acute symptoms and possibly a heart attack or stroke.


Edit: Also want to add that some postulate that over consumption of Omega 6 fatty acids can lead to atherosclerosis as well.

----------


## Pale1

....

----------


## Pale1

> Agreed. I wrote this a while back and will post it here. It may or may not have been said already.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Also want to add that some postulate that over consumption of Omega 6 fatty acids can lead to atherosclerosis as well.


YES! Omega 6's are inflammatory while Omega 3's are anti-inflammatory, & it's all about getting the right balance between the two. Before modern man started making all those nasty vegetable oils, about the most wide spread ratio of the two fats that he may consume would be like a 4-1 Omega 6 to Omega 3. Many cultures like the Inuites consumed a 1-1 ratio. A person consuming the standard American diet is consuming a ratio of something like 16-1!! 

A well structured diet should have a low Omega 3 requirement because the Omega 6 intake should already be very low (remember it's all about the ratio). Most fats should come from saturated fats (grass fed animal fats or butter), & monounsaturated fats (olive oil & avocados).

----------


## kelkel

This is a book, literally:

http://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/381654

If nothing else, read the conclusion, save it to file, etc...

----------


## Pale1

> This is a book, literally:
> 
> http://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/381654
> 
> If nothing else, read the conclusion, save it to file, etc...


It will take me some time to get through that one but just from skimming through the conclusion, I'm sure the drug companies will try to bury this report.

----------


## kelkel

Of course.

----------


## lovbyts

Remember, it's not about the money...  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 
The new guideline will eventually increase the numbers of
statin users on the order of millions.

----------


## lovbyts

Speaking of cholesterol, I watched an interesting moving the other day called The Widowmaker. It's about heart disease, stents, cholesterol and of course the corrupt medical system and doctors.

----------


## Pale1

OK, got the lab results back. To recap, I have been experimenting with dietary modifications for the last few years in an attempt to optimize heart health. Modifications that have given me good (& in some cases great) results in the past have been: Using niacin, increasing fiber, eating whole eggs, reducing carb intake & adding coconut oil into my diet. So my latest experiment was going on a pretty hardcore ketogenic diet with LOTS of saturated & mono-unsaturated fats. Net carbs were kept under 15/ day. My main two targets here were trying to increase LDL particle size & reduce inflammation.

Well, I've actually really enjoyed eating like this & have seen no loss of strength in the gym either (despite losing close t 10 lbs of fat!), so I was hoping to make it a permanent lifestyle change. It would all depend on the bloodwork though. I'm in this for the long haul. & what I found is that while this way of eating gave me far better results than what I was doing years ago which was higher carbs & low saturated fat, when comparing it to what I was doing most recently before making the switch (lower carbs & more fat but not this low in carbs & not this much fat) to keto, I have experienced a bit of regression.

Lets cut to the chase. I'm not listing everything I had checked so if there's something you're interested in that I don't list just ask & I'll give you the info if I've got it. Here are the before & after results:

LDL-P: 1015 to 1048 (That was a rather insignificant change IMO)
LDL-C: 89 to 119 (Not good but I don't put much stock in this generic measurement of LDL anyway)
HDL-C 54 to 55 (No real change)
Triglycerides: 51 to 62 (Eh, my numbers here were never bad but was hoping to see at least a small drop. Oh well)
HDL-P: 34.7 to 33.4 (Again, not much of a change but was really hoping to see this # go up)
Small LDL-P: 390 to 469 (NOT what I was looking for  :Frown:  , I'm still in the "normal" range but was really hoping to get this # under 200, but instead it went up  :Frown:  )
LDL Size: 21 to 19.7 (Again, NOT what I was looking for  :Frown:  )

Also, C Reactive Protein came in at 0.16 Which I am extremely happy with. Unfortunately, they used a different value to measure this with in the past so I'm not really clear on ho to compare it to previous results.

Well, there it is guys. That's why we experiment & get blood work done, to see what works & what doesn't, right?

I'm going to bump my carbs up a little now to about 50 grams & get that from fruits like berries & bananas post- workout when insulin sensitivity is peaked. Do that for a few months & see how that changes things. The experimentation continues  :Smilie:

----------


## kelkel

I'm not clear on your LDL Density Pattern. Where did you land on the scale?

----------


## Pale1

> I'm not clear on your LDL Density Pattern. Where did you land on the scale?


The Pattern A range is 23 - 20.6 &The Pattern B range is 20.5 - 19

My current bloodwork has me at 19.7, so I've regressed down from my previous pattern A range & now into the pattern B.

----------


## Pale1

There's 4 pages worth of reading here but there's some really good info in this piece:
Atherosclerosis and Cardiovascular Disease - Endothelial, Fibrinogen, Vitamin K - Life Extension Health Concern

----------


## kelkel

Will check it out. Thanks!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

Any update on BW without hard rhino Chinese RYR powder? I am still chocking down the pounds I purchased. I can't seem to remember to take this nasty stuff 3 times daily.  :Hmmmm:

----------


## kelkel

I'm not due till Nov-Dec. Take it once per day.

----------


## bigdil511

> Any update on BW without hard rhino Chinese RYR powder? I am still chocking down the pounds I purchased. I can't seem to remember to take this nasty stuff 3 times daily.


I've been taking the pills from now, are they less effective?

----------


## < <Samson> >

> Any update on BW without hard rhino Chinese RYR powder? I am still chocking down the pounds I purchased. I can't seem to remember to take this nasty stuff 3 times daily.


I down a tbsp once a day - that's enough

----------


## kelkel

> I've been taking the pills from now, are they less effective?


Correct, less effective as the FDA regulated out the natural statins. Read the thread all the way through and you'll pick up some interesting stuff.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> I down a tbsp once a day - that's enough


That's good to know. Ty!

----------


## Paden5971

Kelkel, would love your opinion on my Lipid panel. I know some things are high, most have been moving in the right direction, in the last few months. I'm reading your cholesterol post again, any advise would be appreciated. 

8/11/15. 6/16/14
Triglycerides. 78 (< 150 mg/dl). 211. (150 mg/dl)
Cholesterol. 218 (150-200 mg/dl). 233 (140-200 mg/dl)
Cholesterol-HDL. 41(>40.0 mg/dl). 32 (>40.0 mg/dl)
Non-HDL cholesterol 177 (< 160 mg/dl). 201 (<160 mg/dl)
T.Chol/Hdl ratio. 5.3 (4.2-5.8 ratio). 7.3 (4.2-5.8 ratio)
Cholesterol VLDL. 16 (14-35 mg/dl). 42 (14-35 mg/dl)
Cholesterol LDL. 161 (<130 mg/dl). 159 (<130 mg/dl)

----------


## kelkel

Big difference a year made in some of your levels!
Did you add Fish Oil as your triglycerides dramatically improved.
Cholesterol at 218 is fine. Remember, lab scales are different. You're under 250 which is good.
Improvement in HDL, nice! Are you on TRT?
VLDL is in good shape. It's mostly triglycerides anyway.
LDL still high. Need to get this down.

So, what dietary changes did you make from your initial test to the most current?
What supplements did you add or eliminate?
Be sure to get the VAP or NMR Lipo profile for your next test.

----------


## Paden5971

Kelkel, thanks for taking a look. I posted the entire blow work in the low T section asking for your advise also, my plane ride took a day longer than I thought. In the past four months, I've cut out the booze, got back in the gym and back on a good diet. I've dropped close to 35 lbs. I do use Austinite green tea, chromium Pico and the synephrine. Other than that I haven't done much. I'm looking for any advise, im reading your cholesterol posts and looking forward to the next BW results. I'm currently at 19% BF.

----------


## kelkel

Well, you're on the right track. Be sure to read the links regarding supplements listed above.
Remember to do your best to eliminate sugar.

----------


## Paden5971

Thanks again Kelkel

----------


## AR's King Silabolin

Yo kel
My herbal supplier said some of his customers had improven cholestrol from 1200 mg garlic also. I dont know if it was better hdl, lower total, ldl etc, but they had documented better lipids.
Pomenarade should also be great from my studies.

I do NAC, garlic and pomenarade for cholestrol and i will do bloods soon. My cholestrol was ok, sligth low hdl after summercycle, but now i guess things will change. Dont think lgd will play a role (im using that now)

----------


## almostgone

Bumping this one up for personal reference. They had a health fair @ work and they did a very basic lipid profile and blood glucose that I didn't fast for because they said it wasn't necessary. Anyway, I have a feeling I may need to tweak my diet and my supps in the future. About all I take now is 500mg NAC daily (NOW brand) and one of the once/day Omega Red krill oil (probably not the best fat supplement, but better than nothing?).
My numbers were:
Total cholesterol: 187 mg/dL
HDL: 34 mg/dL
LDL: 141 mg/dL
Triglycerides: 59
Glucose: 84

I'm wondering that since this wasn't a fasting test perhaps my eating might have skewed my LDL and total cholesterol numbers, but I don't know why my HDL is in the tank. In the past my lipids have always been excellent; so good that my Drs. have always congratulated me/been jealous.
Thanks, Kel for sharing, I may need to go with the more comprehensive lipids testing in addition to tweaking my diet, and evaluating my supplements.
Of course the Drs office called today with my last labs and left some garbled @ss message on my voice mail. Hopefully, they will have them posted on their health care portal and I can access them later tonight.

----------


## kelkel

Do you use Krill Oil for extra clot prevention due to your situation? There's not a whole hell of a lot of difference in fasted or non-fasted lipids. Maybe Triglycerides the most could be negatively impacted from what I recall, but yours are good anyway. Read the study below, been a while since I've read it.

Fasting Compared with Nonfasting Lipids and Apolipoproteins for Predicting Incident Cardiovascular Events

LDL needs to be lower. HDL really isn't that bad. Remember, Crisler likes to give a 10 pt bump to HDL for those on TRT. Meaning he'd look at yours at 44.
Glucose would no doubt be lower if fasted as you know.

----------


## almostgone

Yes sir, the krill oil is (hopefully) an ace in the hole. I'm comfortable with the glucose value, but would love to get that LDL down and if I could nudge up the HDL I would take it.

Thanks for the link, Kel. Always appreciate the help, big guy! Time for me to do some reading this evening, and I'll also give a focus to tools to lower the LDL.  :Smilie:

----------


## GirlyGymRat

I switched to krill bc no after fishy burps. Krill ok right?

----------


## kelkel

Yes, they are comparable.

----------


## ta406

TRT has lowered my cholesterol but I need to lower it a bit more. I'm looking into the supplement you guys have listed and it doesn't appear the Hard Rhino makes red yeast rice anymore. Any other suggestions on what works?

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Yes, they are comparable.


Thanks for the reassurance.  :Smilie:

----------


## kelkel

> TRT has lowered my cholesterol but I need to lower it a bit more. I'm looking into the supplement you guys have listed and it doesn't appear the Hard Rhino makes red yeast rice anymore. Any other suggestions on what works?



I pulled it right up on Amazon.

----------


## AR's King Silabolin

Yo. I have not red this thread but i guess its about betring cholestrollevels. I saw your supp.-list but the best cholestrol ratio closener i have come across is the SR9009. I havent checked bloods for it myself yet, but my restpulse has lowered 15 pulses in 3 weeks and thats an awesome result. Now before i fall asleep i have 60 bpm. Before i was always around 75.
It lowers LDL and raises HDL.

----------


## ta406

> I pulled it right up on Amazon.


Would you mind posting a link? I hate so sound like an idiot but I can't find it. Ive used plenty of Hard Rhino products and have been happy with their quality. The only thing I can find says its currently unavailable.

----------


## The_Crawfish

See anything concerning with my lipid panel??

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Would you mind posting a link? I hate so sound like an idiot but I can't find it. Ive used plenty of Hard Rhino products and have been happy with their quality. The only thing I can find says its currently unavailable.


Still unavailable....must be popular even tho tastes like crap!

----------


## kelkel

> Would you mind posting a link? I hate so sound like an idiot but I can't find it. Ive used plenty of Hard Rhino products and have been happy with their quality. The only thing I can find says its currently unavailable.



You are correct. It's now showing unavailable.

----------


## kelkel

> See anything concerning with my lipid panel??



Overall not that bad, imho. I'd want to get your triglycerides lower if possible. Add more fish oil or if not taking any, do so. LDL is elevated a bit but not horrendous. HDL is a bit low but if on TRT that's relatively normal. For example, Crisler will automatically give a TRT patient an additional 10 pts to their HDL when evaluating them. A simple goal would be to be able to divide your HDL into your triglycerides and have the number come out to 2 or less.

----------


## kelkel

> Still unavailable....must be popular even tho tastes like crap!



Extreme understatement.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

Thanks for posting this Kel. I remembered it from a couple years ago and came back to find it. 

Hope all is well buddy.  :Welcome:

----------


## RaginCajun

Hi Sarge!

----------


## kelkel

> Thanks for posting this Kel. I remembered it from a couple years ago and came back to find it. 
> 
> Hope all is well buddy.



It is Sarge! Hope all is well with you and HNY! Stick around.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> Hi Sarge!


RC!!! Hope all is well bud.




> It is Sarge! Hope all is well with you and HNY! Stick around.


I am gonna try to, place seems dead around here. 

We'll see if your cholesterol protocol will put a dent in my 192 LDL...... :Smilie:

----------


## kelkel

Always a bit slow around the holidays. It'll pick up quick.
What's your HDL and Triglycerides currently at?

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

Hdl 39
Tri 78

----------


## AR's King Silabolin

thats the reason why i lift

----------


## kelkel

> Hdl 39
> Tri 78


You're in good shape. A good indicator of cardiac health is to divide your tri by your HDL. You're at 2 which is super.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

Good info thanks kel.

----------


## Rusty11

> You're in good shape. A good indicator of cardiac health is to divide your tri by your HDL. You're at 2 which is super.


Really??
My ratio is .9 
HDL 63
Tri 61
And my dr. still has me on simvastatin. My LDL waa 112...100 being the upper limit. Everything else is perfect. Ugh!

----------


## kelkel

Hi Rusty, been awhile! What I'm referring to is the cardiac risk factor.

----------


## Rusty11

Hey Kel. I read everyday, just don't post much. 
I just have serious doubts whether I need this statin
I've started using most of the things in your initial post. Hopefully, the one number that's a bit high will lower and he'll take me off it. I know I can stop now, but I guess I should do what he says for now. 
I'm taking 100 ml test c (200mg/ml) a week. I've stockpiled so much test lol. Wanted to do a little blast, but don't want to screw up my chol. numbers with an AI. Sensitive e2 is 23, but I guess I'll just wait....

----------


## anoxicblaze

Can the slo-niacin be replaced by choline and inositol? I take that and it helped my liver. Taking both would be too much inositol, right? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## kelkel

Not sure. I've only read studies relating to women and the beneficial effects of inositol, not both combined. Not sure how you'd compare them other than to switch to them and then examine BW months later.

----------


## Mr.BB

Kel, try amla powder. It lowered my LDL and increased my HDL to numbers I've never seen.

Do buy some empty capsules to put it in, it tastes like ass (the bad kind of ass).

----------


## j2048b

> Kel, try amla powder. It lowered my LDL and increased my HDL to numbers I've never seen.
> 
> Do buy some empty capsules to put it in, it tastes like ass (the bad kind of ass).


What is this amla powder? Where.do u get it?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

----------


## Couchlockd

mines not bad in any way. but always looking for non prescription methods to help out .

thx kel

----------


## Mr.BB

> What is this amla powder? Where.do u get it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


Some indian fruit. Any herbal supp store should be able to get it. Its cheap.

Try it, do bloodwork before and after: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3326920/

----------


## kelkel

> mines not bad in any way. but always looking for non prescription methods to help out .
> 
> thx kel


I remember seeing yours. You're in great shape.

----------


## kelkel

> Kel, try amla powder. It lowered my LDL and increased my HDL to numbers I've never seen.
> 
> Do buy some empty capsules to put it in, it tastes like ass (the bad kind of ass).



I will look into it, thanks BB! I can't imagine anything tasting worse, or dissolving more poorly than RYR powder but I guess I'll find out......

BB I'm seeing it in both powder form and capsule on Amazon, both claiming to be "raw" powder. Any issues that you know of with the caps?

----------


## Mr.BB

> I will look into it, thanks BB! I can't imagine anything tasting worse, or dissolving more poorly than RYR powder but I guess I'll find out......
> 
> BB I'm seeing it in both powder form and capsule on Amazon, both claiming to be "raw" powder. Any issues that you know of with the caps?


This thing is just a berry dried and grounded into a powder.
All I say is to get organic, if it's already in a capsule depends on price and your willingness to encapsulate it yourself heheh
I buy 250gr of organic powder for 5 euros in local herbal store.

----------


## kelkel

> This thing is just a berry dried and grounded into a powder.
> All I say is to get organic, if it's already in a capsule depends on price and your willingness to encapsulate it yourself heheh
> I buy 250gr of organic powder for 5 euros in local herbal store.



Thank you sir1

----------


## EDCG19

So is reducing cholesterol really important?

I've been doing the same thing and running niacin, NAC and red yeast on all moderate doses. Blood work looks good when I'm using that stuff but if i stop cholesterol shoots through the roof again...

----------


## OdinsOtherSon

kelkel, my latest labs were ran about a month ago. My lipid profile has always been my one problematic area. I have tried everything (short of a script statin), including your protocol, with very limited success. For 3 months prior to last labs, I ran Life Extensions R-alpha lipoic acid, omega 7s, and curcumin w/ biopeperine. My lipid profile was cut in half. Didn’t alter my diet. I’ll be interested to see if the results continue when I have labs ran again in a couple months.

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## charger69

> kelkel, my latest labs were ran about a month ago. My lipid profile has always been my one problematic area. I have tried everything (short of a script statin), including your protocol, with very limited success. For 3 months prior to last labs, I ran Life Extensions R-alpha lipoic acid, omega 7s, and curcumin w/ biopeperine. My lipid profile was cut in half. Didnt alter my diet. Ill be interested to see if the results continue when I have labs ran again in a couple months.


My understanding is that RYR isnt worth crap in the US because the main beneficial ingredient is not allowed. 
Can someone tell
Me if this is true or not. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## OdinsOtherSon

> My understanding is that RYR isn’t worth crap in the US because the main beneficial ingredient is not allowed. 
> Can someone tell
> Me if this is true or not. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is also my understanding. I do have Chinese ryr. Powder form from Hard Rhino. It is almost impossible to choke down. But yes, my understanding is the same as yours. I believe that the FDA requires that the lovastatin be removed from RYR manufactured in the US, hence, the Chinese ryr is desirable. Btw, you can no longer order Chinese ryr from Hard Rhino.

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## Quester

Without the Lovastatin isn't the only beneficial ingredient remaining in it, Choline?

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