# COMPETITIVE BODYBUILDING - POWERLIFTING - ATHLETICS & SPORTS > COMPETITIVE BODYBUILDING Q & A >  Mike xxl eca stack with Yohimbine

## GirlyGymRat

I know this is posted in wrong area but mike xxl hangs out here. 

What's your ECA stack or ECA modification with Yohimbine. I can't put my finger on this but I have seen u mention in others post. 

Sometimes u recommend Yohimbine for lower body fat loss. Please elaborate. 

What would u recommend for waist loss. (this is my hateful area or overly gifted in tummy to put on that positive spin :P) No hips or chunky thighs on this girly. I've had to squat and hip thrust my way to a tiny but fuller booty. Just not genetically gifted in hip area. Legs are amazing , so I've been told. LoL

But that damn mid section!  :Madd:

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## MIKE_XXL

Yohimbine HCL increase blood flow to fat located in lower extremities, which is fat tissue located in the area that is harder to oxidize, because woman carry a lot of their body fat in the lower extremities Yohimbe can increase the fat burning in the stubborn areas. What i do with my female athletes is Ephedrine 20mg / Caffeine / Yohimbine HCL 3mg all of them 2 times a day, generally run it the length of show prep...i hope this answers your question, if you need anything more please let me know...

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## GirlyGymRat

Thank you. Caffeine at 20mg??? How late in day should I be taking my second dose? I can drink a cup of coffee and go straight to bed but don't want to mess with my beauty rest. I am not show prep. How long can I run? What is your protocol for time on and time off? This girly has a little bit of fat on my inner thighs and nothing on my hips and very little on thighs. No cellulite on this girl. I have had to squat my way to bigger booty. (Flat butt genetics thanks to my dad.). But I have this damn lower tummy thing going on. I had a hysterectomy to remove 2 ginormous fibrous tumors and doc had to cut my stomach, internally, from low bikini line to navel. The HRT drugs packed on 10 lbs of ugliness to this same area. I loose weight from extremities first. Tummy LAST. I am also diabetic (controlled with meds) so insulin resistance is another little issue that weighs against me. Will this stack work for fat in my problem tummy area??? I have been lifting more recently and I am starting to notice a change in my upper abs. I am also running 20 anavar split and 30 primo. It seems to be taking hold. My muscles are harder. More vascularity in extremities. A little bit of water but I try to flush that out with 1 hour of cardio EOD. Can I / should I stack with existing cycle? I am 6 weeks into cycle. I planned to run winny but it wasn't winny!

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## MIKE_XXL

Opps 200mg, sorry...i do first dose upon wakening and then 6 to 8 hours later...I would say the blood supply to the area you are referring to is poor, there for yohimbine HCL would help, i would say go ahead and add it to your cycle...i would also say, if you are not already doing it, to eat just fats and protein for breakfast...no carbs in this meal, this will keep you in a fat burning zone longer, what kind of cardio are you doing HIIT or steady state? Are you eating somwhat low carbs and how much and how often do you use insulin , what kind? You should also add Tabata once a week into your regiment, its only 4 minute workout but stimulates metabolic rate for upto 72 hours...if i missed anything let me know, i am exhausted today and i still have to go to work...ohh and i am out of ephedrine...its going to be a long night...

Some of this might seem elementary but i want to make sure all the basics are covered...

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## GirlyGymRat

> Opps 200mg, sorry...i do first dose upon wakening and then 6 to 8 hours later...I would say the blood supply to the area you are referring to is poor, there for yohimbine HCL would help, i would say go ahead and add it to your cycle...i would also say, if you are not already doing it, to eat just fats and protein for breakfast...no carbs in this meal, this will keep you in a fat burning zone longer, what kind of cardio are you doing HIIT or steady state? Are you eating somwhat low carbs and how much and how often do you use insulin, what kind? You should also add Tabata once a week into your regiment, its only 4 minute workout but stimulates metabolic rate for upto 72 hours...if i missed anything let me know, i am exhausted today and i still have to go to work...ohh and i am out of ephedrine...its going to be a long night... Some of this might seem elementary but i want to make sure all the basics are covered...


I'ld rather be thorough. 

For breakfast I have 1 or 2 eggs with half avocado or just one egg or just cottage cheese or a Dannon 2x protein yogurt. Seems u support the egg and avocado the best. 

I am carb sensitive so I try to stay below 30 net carbs per day. Or 50 carbs total with 20 from fiber. I have a lot of issues with no poo. I need to find a good probiotic. Days and days and days with no poo unless I eat gluten then it gets messy. I have slowly been removing most gluten from diet. As soon as I eat gluten I bloat. Yesterday I had a bagel (Cheat meal). I am terribly bloated today. 

I am taking Victoza once daily in am. No insulin . VictoZa is an sub q injectable. Removed my evening carb binges. It is being prescribed in much higher dosage to help morbid obese as well as ppl with diabetes. It replaced metformin. 

Cardio only days are cycle class 2x per week Tonight we did tabata intervals. High climbs. Jumps. Speed intervals with no resistance. Varies depending on instructor. 

The other day is 60 minutes on stair master. Not stepper but master. I use the fat burning or interval training presets. 

I do 20-30 minutes on treadmill after weights. Mostly incline. Sometimes I run but I am not a fan of running indoors. 

If u don't mind, I am curious on macro split you would recommend. I feel I could benefit from mod protein, mod to high fat and low carbs. Just not sure what that split would look like. 40/40/20 p/c/f. 30/50/20?

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## kelkel

Interesting stuff on Yohimbine. This backs up the need for the lower dose as you suggested:

Yohimbine - Scientific Review on Usage, Dosage, Side Effects | Examine.com

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## MIKE_XXL

I will have to get back to this tomorrow when i have a bit more time i am off to work right now, thanks!

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## MIKE_XXL

I am still wrapping my head around this, one thing i want you to do for me is measure your temperature next 3 days right upon awakening...this will let us know where your thyroid is at for optimum fat burning...

For you the macro split would be best of to keep in area of 30/50/20 to keep carbs down...cardio seems ok, i like HIIT the most might want incorpoorate that, the best about it is the amount of time investment is smaller....

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## PrettyPlease?

> *Yohimbine HCL increase blood flwo to brown fat, which is fat tissue that is harder to oxidize*, because woman carry a lot of their body fat in the lower extremities Yohimbe can increase the fat burning in the stubborn areas. What i do with my female athletes is Ephedrin 20mg / Caffeine / Yohimbine HCL 3mg all of them 2 times a day, generally run it the length of show prep...i hope this answers your question, if you need anything more please let me know...


Hmmm. This is contrary to everything I have ever understood about brown fat. It has been taught that adults don't really have brown fat because we carry so little of it and what we do have is usually centered around the neck and the collarbones. Also brown fat to my knowledge expends energy in the form of heat which is why it is found in newborns (their do not have muscle developed enough to keep them warm).

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## MIKE_XXL

> Hmmm. This is contrary to everything I have ever understood about brown fat. It has been taught that adults don't really have brown fat because we carry so little of it and what we do have is usually centered around the neck and the collarbones. Also brown fat to my knowledge expends energy in the form of heat which is why it is found in newborns (their do not have muscle developed enough to keep them warm).


Interesting, i will have to have a look at it, either way Yohimbine HCL increase blood flow to lower extremities where woman tend to store extra BF...perhaps my terminology use of "brown fat" is incorrect here, i will have to research into this, what do you know even old dogs like me can learn new things :-) Thank you for bring this up to me...

I have edited my post and removed the reference to brow fat, as it not correct terminology to use here, the rest of the concenpt is sound, just miss use of the term...thank you again for bring it up...

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## GirlyGymRat

> I am still wrapping my head around this, one thing i want you to do for me is measure your temperature next 3 days right upon awakening...this will let us know where your thyroid is at for optimum fat burning... For you the macro split would be best of to keep in area of 30/50/20 to keep carbs down...cardio seems ok, i like HIIT the most might want incorpoorate that, the best about it is the amount of time investment is smaller....


I forgot to measure my temperature. I am not even sure I have a thermometer. My thyroid has been tested and was in range. 

My body temp run lower in general. At 98.6 I am running a fever. With my luck, lower temp means less fat burning???

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## MIKE_XXL

97.6 is the starting range for healthy thyroid function...anything lower then that could mean Hypothyroidism...its a good easy way to determine if one has a thyroid issue...i think most of the things you are doing are correct, i would stick to no carbs on breakfast, add yohimbine HCL into the mix and switch some of the cardio in to HIIT. from here i would see what happens, might be enough of changes to melt that small amount of fat off...i dont want to make any changes to drastic due to your diabetes...the meds they have you on are better then insulin , in my opinion, as they simply improve insulin sensitivity and do not increase the amount of insulin in your body, which as a storage peptide hormone and could interfere with fat loss...

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## GirlyGymRat

> 97.6 is the starting range for healthy thyroid function...anything lower then that could mean Hypothyroidism...its a good easy way to determine if one has a thyroid issue...i think most of the things you are doing are correct, i would stick to no carbs on breakfast, add yohimbine HCL into the mix and switch some of the cardio in to HIIT. from here i would see what happens, might be enough of changes to melt that small amount of fat off...i dont want to make any changes to drastic due to your diabetes...the meds they have you on are better then insulin, in my opinion, as they simply improve insulin sensitivity and do not increase the amount of insulin in your body, which as a storage peptide hormone and could interfere with fat loss...


Thank you for the advice and insight. I am ordering the ingredients and will start as soon as arrive. I am going to add the avocado back into breakfast and tweak macros and meal plans slightly. 

I will revised some of my treadmill sessions to hiit. 

I'll let u know. Thanks much!!!

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## MIKE_XXL

You are more then welcome...keep me posted..




> Thank you for the advice and insight. I am ordering the ingredients and will start as soon as arrive. I am going to add the avocado back into breakfast and tweak macros and meal plans slightly. 
> 
> I will revised some of my treadmill sessions to hiit. 
> 
> I'll let u know. Thanks much!!!

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## GirlyGymRat

Yohimbine HCL in route. Ephedrine shipped! Caffeine in hand. 

I have been reading about members feeling 'like on speed" with Yohimbine. There dosages are much higher. Be interesting to see how this works. 

I see a specialist for blood sugar mgt he is also a weight mgmt specialist. His input is very very different. He wants me to eat very little fat. Only fibrous veggies. Lots of cardio. No weights.low calories 800 a day. Says my body is hoarding the fat. He believes my cortisol levels are high. I do have high stress position. Idk. Just getting overwhelmed with input.

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## PrettyPlease?

> Yohimbine HCL in route. Ephedrine shipped! Caffeine in hand. 
> 
> I have been reading about members feeling 'like on speed" with Yohimbine. There dosages are much higher. Be interesting to see how this works. 
> 
> I see a specialist for blood sugar mgt he is also a weight mgmt specialist. His input is very very different. He wants me to eat very little fat. Only fibrous veggies. Lots of cardio. *No weights.low calories 800 a day. Says my body is hoarding the fat. He believes my cortisol levels are high.* I do have high stress position. Idk. Just getting overwhelmed with input.


Not sure I necessarily agree with his approach. Very Low calorie Diets need are usually reserved for morbidly obese and she be done under a doctor's supervision. If he thinks your cortisol levels are high why not have them tested?

Also just watch the BP on yohimbine.

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## GirlyGymRat

> Not sure I necessarily agree with his approach. Very Low calorie Diets need are usually reserved for morbidly obese and she be done under a doctor's supervision. If he thinks your cortisol levels are high why not have them tested? Also just watch the BP on yohimbine.


Blood was drawn. I hope he ordered that test. I am on cycle too so I think HDL with be high from primo and anavar . Yes I didn't share. LoL

I don't agree neither. If I wasnt a member here maybe I would be more agreeable. He does treat morbidly obesity. I would hope he would know to treat me differently.

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## MIKE_XXL

ouch on the 800 calorie diet, my wife is 145lbs at about 12-14% and she eats 1500cal a day while still loosing weight, that using over the counter fat burner of EC stack, no thyroid, no hGH...800cal seems very extreme, the problem with this aproach is metabolic damage that is hard to reverse once the diet stops...

That being said wish you luck and keep us posted...

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## GirlyGymRat

> ouch on the 800 calorie diet, my wife is 145lbs at about 12-14% and she eats 1500cal a day while still loosing weight, that using over the counter fat burner of EC stack, no thyroid, no hGH...800cal seems very extreme, the problem with this aproach is metabolic damage that is hard to reverse once the diet stops... That being said wish you luck and keep us posted...


I was once losing at 1600 too but then not at 1500, 1350....

800 It's not gonna work for me. I tried. I can't lift and cardio on 800 cals. Too fatigued. I upped calories to 1000 and then 1200 and gained 3 lbs. 
thus my reason for reaching out to you for this stack.  :Smilie: . 

I have stabilized again and dropped one whole pound in one who month. But meals calories dropping too. Inconsistent in daily calories would about sum it up. 

A wise man keeps telling me to stay the course. Eventually this stubborn fat will realize I am not giving up. It's frustrating. Very very much so. I have to protect against throwing in the towel. I don't weight myself anymore bc messes with my psyche. 

Ephedrine should have been delivered today. Ready to start!

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## MIKE_XXL

I wish i got to work with you at the beginning, or at the least give you some guidance regardless of who your coach is...those are some crazy low calories, do you ever just go all out and have a astronomical cheat meal, or is your diabetes prohibiting you from that kind of a sinful and pleasant experience?

it sounds to me like you need to reset your metabolism through some serious over eating, i know i said that before, but what is your morning temperature, i know you say you run a fever at 98.6 but just curious...my wife just got down to 96.9 and we will introduce 12.5mcg of T3 to bring it back up to the norm or slightly above...

keep us posted on your progress...




> I was once losing at 1600 too but then not at 1500, 1350....
> 
> 800 It's not gonna work for me. I tried. I can't lift and cardio on 800 cals. Too fatigued. I upped calories to 1000 and then 1200 and gained 3 lbs. 
> thus my reason for reaching out to you for this stack. . 
> 
> I have stabilized again and dropped one whole pound in one who month. But meals calories dropping too. Inconsistent in daily calories would about sum it up. 
> 
> A wise man keeps telling me to stay the course. Eventually this stubborn fat will realize I am not giving up. It's frustrating. Very very much so. I have to protect against throwing in the towel. I don't weight myself anymore bc messes with my psyche. 
> 
> Ephedrine should have been delivered today. Ready to start!

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## GirlyGymRat

I found a thermometer. I took my temperature after drinking coffee mid morning. It was 98.4. I will take it first thing upon waking tomorrow and let u know.

I try to minimize cheat meals. If I do eat poorly several days in a row, I can feel my sugar elevating. Sometime have the other problem. If I don't eat enough for an extended period of time, i start to feel like I am going to fall out. Sometimes my vision in one eye starts to get wavy. It is quickly reversed with food. This doesn't happen often but has in the last few months when I was running on empty. 

My diabetes is so much better then it was about 6 years ago. Now I just can't seem to shed this 10 lbs. I gained it last year during an incredible stressful 3 months. I spare u the details. I only recently let go of the baggage but even now if someone inquires. the stress and emotions elevate. It was awful. 

The good news is my Daisy Dukes are fitting better but still too tight. Even tho weight up, body is recomposition so that's good.

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## GirlyGymRat

Temp 96.8

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## MIKE_XXL

So it is slightly below what it should be which is 97.6 about a degree, well 0.8 to be precise..i know you said you had your thyroid checked, how long ago was it....

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## GirlyGymRat

> So it is slightly below what it should be which is 97.6 about a degree, well 0.8 to be precise..i know you said you had your thyroid checked, how long ago was it....


October I believe. It was normal before and after I ran a t3/Clen cycle.

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## MIKE_XXL

hmm i would perhaps get it tested again, my wife is at 96.8 and we will introduce 12.5mcg of T3 to keep her progress moving forward...

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## GirlyGymRat

> hmm i would perhaps get it tested again, my wife is at 96.8 and we will introduce 12.5mcg of T3 to keep her progress moving forward...


 I will post up the next 2 days as well. Doc took BW but not sure if included thyroid.

Edit. Forgot to say thankyou!

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## GirlyGymRat

96.3 degrees this morning :/

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## GirlyGymRat

Spent last 20 min looking at hypothyroidism symptoms. Will need to get tested. Be shocked if I do have it. My thyroid has been tested several times by previous doctor and always normal. I've been fatigued lately. 

The trial run of ECY stack one am dose. I felt it! I LIKED it!

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## RaginCajun

> 96.3 degrees this morning :/


need to be heated up?

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## GirlyGymRat

> need to be heated up?


Apparently. Srsly tho I do have majority of symptoms. Maybe thyroid is low?!?! I know I have been frustrated with lack of weight change.

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## GirlyGymRat

> 96.3 degrees this morning :/


97.0 degrees this morning

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## MIKE_XXL

Measure one more day and if its below 97.6 have it checked again, i wouldnt be to surprised if it was slightly suppressed...

Might only need 12.5mcg per day to bring it into range...as you are not that far out of it...

Keep us posted.

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## uhit

> Spent last 20 min looking at hypothyroidism symptoms. Will need to get tested. Be shocked if I do have it. My thyroid has been tested several times by previous doctor and always normal. I've been fatigued lately. 
> 
> The trial run of ECY stack one am dose. I felt it! I LIKED it!


Is it like a coffee rush? I might give it a go to help me with my recovery

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## GirlyGymRat

> Is it like a coffee rush? I might give it a go to help me with my recovery


It's more like speed to burn fat.

I had to modify the dosage slightly with Ephedrine 25 mg, caffeine 200 mg and yohimbine @ 2.5 mg. 

I have lost 2.5 lbs in the last 3 days but don't think it is all bc of the stack. I haven't been eating regularly due to life still upside down.  :Frown: 
EditWatch this page

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## uhit

> It's more like speed to burn fat.
> 
> I had to modify the dosage slightly with Ephedrine 25 mg, caffeine 200 mg and yohimbine @ 2.5 mg. 
> 
> I have lost 2.5 lbs in the last 3 days but don't think it is all bc of the stack. I haven't been eating regularly due to life still upside down. 
> EditWatch this page


Subbed.

Cheers for that GGR. I'll see how it goes for you and make a decision for myself.
Hopefully things get better for you!

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## GirlyGymRat

> Subbed. Cheers for that GGR. I'll see how it goes for you and make a decision for myself. Hopefully things get better for you!


I am down 3 lbs in as many days. There's some other factors too...haven't been sleeping enough.

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## GirlyGymRat

With sleep aid rested 9 hrs therefore this is a mid morning reading @ 97.6 I will post up tomorrow's when back to the grind. Weight down another pound today.

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## hawk14dl

Dang ggr, sounds like the weight is melting off.

Hopefully it's melting from the right places?

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## MIKE_XXL

Ok glad to hear the temp is back up to where it needs to be, thats why its always averages of the temp that i am in interested in and not just 1 day as there are so many variables in day to day life to regulate the body temperature...

I am sorry about your personal life not going the way it should, i have been sleeping an average 4-5 hours per day for few weeks now and know what impact it has on me and my performance in the gym as well as my physique...my life has been complicated last little bit as well which does not help either...so i know what you mean, i have dropped from 210lbs to 198lbs and last i checked my abs are not any more visible, so i know its muscle fulness, i got to get my sh!t together again, its been a rough ride for last 9 month for me...

So hang in there and keep doing what you are doing and keep us updated...we are here for you...

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## GirlyGymRat

> Dang ggr, sounds like the weight is melting off. Hopefully it's melting from the right places?


It's awesome. fat is mostly on tummy and little on upper inner thighs. 

I've thought about tummy fat sucked out of gut and transferred to the hips. But seems wrong to reposition fat to the hips. Me no curvy silhouette from behind. 

Boobs are going down too- got plenty of curves there!

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## GirlyGymRat

> Ok glad to hear the temp is back up to where it needs to be, thats why its always averages of the temp that i am in interested in and not just 1 day as there are so many variables in day to day life to regulate the body temperature... I am sorry about your personal life not going the way it should, i have been sleeping an average 4-5 hours per day for few weeks now and know what impact it has on me and my performance in the gym as well as my physique...my life has been complicated last little bit as well which does not help either...so i know what you mean, i have dropped from 210lbs to 198lbs and last i checked my abs are not any more visible, so i know its muscle fulness, i got to get my sh!t together again, its been a rough ride for last 9 month for me... So hang in there and keep doing what you are doing and keep us updated...we are here for you...


Thx you for understanding and help. I decided to come off cycle - too much stress and stress of cycle is too much. Been on for 8 weeks. Time for break. Do a detox and run this stack, train hard. Run another cycle later. 

I plan to take temp for next few days...and will post up.

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## MIKE_XXL

You are welcome!
Glad to be able to assist...




> Thx you for understanding and help. I decided to come off cycle - too much stress and stress of cycle is too much. Been on for 8 weeks. Time for break. Do a detox and run this stack, train hard. Run another cycle later. 
> 
> I plan to take temp for next few days...and will post up.

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## GirlyGymRat

Does this stack erase appetite? I haven't thought about food all day long. 

Now I was texting one of my gf and she asked why I was texting soooo much. LoL

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## GirlyGymRat

> 97.0 degrees this morning


97.0 this morning

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## MIKE_XXL

yes it would suppress the appetite...

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## GirlyGymRat

> yes it would suppress the appetite...


Ok. I am so jacked up on this stack, I decided to not take the afternoon dose today. Going to adjust ephedrine down to 18.75 (was taking 25mg). 

Scale going down down down... too quickly. I am drinking water so it's not dehydration. 

Wished I had looked into this 2 years ago when stuck at a plateau 

Does the body get immune to the ingredients at some point like when on phen?

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## Mr.BB

If you stopped the cycle is normal for scale to go down as the muscles release the extra water and sugar they were holding.

Dont look to scale so much lol

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## GirlyGymRat

> If you stopped the cycle is normal for scale to go down as the muscles release the extra water and sugar they were holding. Dont look to scale so much lol


But i only pulled back on 10 mg var so far.
I am pulling down on var again tomorrow, then primo by 10mg, 10 and finally last 10.

I started ECY stack before I started drawing down on cycle. This stack has me wired  :LOL:   :LOL:   :LOL:  Actually I am kinda back to a person I used to me. Full of endless every.... I was twirling around my place yesterday like a ballerina. :P 

Thank you for your response.

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## itsmybody

Girly!!!! This is all so amazing!!!! Beyond stoked for you, looks like the plateau is toasted. Hellsyeah!!!!!!!!

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## GirlyGymRat

> Girly!!!! This is all so amazing!!!! Beyond stoked for you, looks like the plateau is toasted. Hellsyeah!!!!!!!!


Looking that way!!!! Down another 1/2 pound yesterday.  :Wink:

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## itsmybody

> Looking that way!!!! Down another 1/2 pound yesterday.


Shazaaaaam Sam!!!! On a roll!

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## GirlyGymRat

> Shazaaaaam Sam!!!! On a roll!


Only taking one dosage a day....until job stress abates. My eyes started twitching.....I can't have that.

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## itsmybody

> Only taking one dosage a day....until job stress abates. My eyes started twitching.....I can't have that.


Yikes, yeah don't blame you there at all. Now that's a weird feeling. Did you know this can be caused by this stack?

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## GirlyGymRat

> Yikes, yeah don't blame you there at all. Now that's a weird feeling. Did you know this can be caused by this stack?


Stack did not cause the eye twitch. It's all the triggers listed on the left. I need a break from the job! 

To find a solution for eye twitching, we needed to determine the underlying cause of this annoying problem. Called myokymia in doctor lingo, these rippling muscle contractions in an eyelid can be triggered by:

Stress
Tiredness
Eye strain
Caffeine
Alcohol
Dry eyes
Nutritional imbalances
Allergies

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## uhit

@Mike

Is it possible to substitute the ephedrine with Synephrine HCL?

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## GirlyGymRat

> @Mike Is it possible to substitute the ephedrine with Synephrine HCL?


^^^ good question!

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## GirlyGymRat

Been updating my cycle results log. 

Weight dropping! Happiness is ECY stack!!!

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## MIKE_XXL

I dont know if you could substitute with Synethrine HCL, i would guess yes but not sure at what ratio...that is a good question that i dont have answer to as i have never used Synethrine...

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## uhit

> I dont know if you could substitute with Synethrine HCL, i would guess yes but not sure at what ratio...that is a good question that i dont have answer to as i have never used Synethrine...


I'll experiment with it and see if it helps accelerate fat loss (even by 0.2-0.3lbs a week would be very desirable). I'll take 20mg to start it off.

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## GirlyGymRat

DrewZ runs a modified stack. Let me see if he will pop in to explain adjustment.

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## itsmybody

Really need to bookmark this for when its time to be a naked banana with onion skin again. Thank you @Girly for keeping this updated, all the info and all the ways to substitute. I really appreciate all of your time and effort lady.

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## GirlyGymRat

My temp reading this morning was 96.8....

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## DrewZ

This is good stuff, keep it up! Subbed  :Smilie:

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## GirlyGymRat

> I'll experiment with it and see if it helps accelerate fat loss (even by 0.2-0.3lbs a week would be very desirable). I'll take 20mg to start it off.


I ran austnite over the counter fat loss and no results. But it did seem that the guys had some success. 

It would be very interesting to see how you modify and results. 

The ECY stack is dropping fat for me. My doc is going to be very surprised when i weigh in.  :Smilie: 

I am also wired. One dose yesterday, workouts and felt to sleep. Still playing with second dose.

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## DrewZ

unit;
I substituted Synephrine for Yohimbine in Austinite's fatloss protocol.

If you want to try yohimbine heres how I dose it;

I take 10mg when under 185# and 12.5mg when over that.

When cutting and dropping to <175# while still taking my 12.5mg dose I would get some serious anxiety from it though.

If you experience this, know it was just the yohimbine


Mike; what would you say about someone who runs a little hot all the time, say 99.2 to 99.7F

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## MIKE_XXL

WOW never met anyone that runs this hot first thing in the morning, i would say potential for hyper hyperthyroidism...i would have this checked...personaly i dont like Yohimbine HCL over 3mg, however there is a difference between Standardized Yohimbe Bark and Yohimbine HCL, make sure everyone understand what they are taking...at 12.5mg of Yohimbine HCL i would go insane...

If i was to sabstitue anything it would be Ephedrine for Synephrine, Synephrine and Yohimbine are two different compounds from different families and different forms of action...they are not really direct replacement for each other...

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## uhit

Right now running Synephrine HCL @ 30mg, Caffeine @ 200mg (with a coffee mid afternoon so probably 300mg altogether), Yohimbine HCL 2.5mg while being in a net 400calorie deficit daily.

Literally experience the same thing as you GGR in terms of heat. I get random heatwaves and hot flushes and sweat even when typing on a keyboard. Crazy stuff.
Am at 169.3 right now, hopefully in a month I can be 165 and actual begin bulking again.

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## GirlyGymRat

> Right now running Synephrine HCL @ 30mg, Caffeine @ 200mg (with a coffee mid afternoon so probably 300mg altogether), Yohimbine HCL 2.5mg while being in a net 400calorie deficit daily. Literally experience the same thing as you GGR in terms of heat. I get random heatwaves and hot flushes and sweat even when typing on a keyboard. Crazy stuff. Am at 169.3 right now, hopefully in a month I can be 165 and actual begin bulking again.


 Synephrine did nothing for me on the over the counter stack. Nothing. But believe the dosage to be much lower. Idk. Can't Remember. 

Ephedrine and yohimbine are awesome. Uhit. R u only taking one dose per day of your stack?

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## uhit

> Synephrine did nothing for me on the over the counter stack. Nothing. But believe the dosage to be much lower. Idk. Can't Remember. 
> 
> Ephedrine and yohimbine are awesome. Uhit. R u only taking one dose per day of your stack?


1 in the am on the empty stomach (half the dosage) and then the other half in the evening, usually pre workout on workout days. But at least 6 or so hours after the initial dose.

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## DrewZ

> WOW never met anyone that runs this hot first thing in the morning, i would say potential for hyper hyperthyroidism...i would have this checked...personaly i dont like Yohimbine HCL over 3mg, however there is a difference between Standardized Yohimbe Bark and Yohimbine HCL, make sure everyone understand what they are taking...at 12.5mg of Yohimbine HCL i would go insane...
> 
> If i was to sabstitue anything it would be Ephedrine for Synephrine, Synephrine and Yohimbine are two different compounds from different families and different forms of action...they are not really direct replacement for each other...


Woah, I thought I was on the low end for dosing?
When i first got Yohimbine HCL I wasn't sure about dosages.
doing some googling I found write ups on Examine and Livestrong saying to take 0.2mg/kg bodyweight; which would put me at over 17mg, No Thank You!


Note this warning from examine.com:



> Caution Notice
> 
> Yohimbine can cause extreme anxiety in individuals predisposed to anxiety.
> Yohimbine may trigger manic psychosis or suicidal episodes in people with bipolar disorder.
> Yohimbine can interact with a large amount of neurological medications and should not be used in conjunction with these medication without consultation with a doctor


I believe it also has interactions when Clen and should not be used with it.

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## GirlyGymRat

^^^ excellent post.

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## GirlyGymRat

I have found the sweet spot for this stack over the last few weeks. Both Dosage and timing. 

I am down yet another pound. This is better then any AAS I have used for cutting as I believe var and primo lend themselves better to bulking cycles.

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## itsmybody

> I have found the sweet spot for this stack over the last few weeks. Both Dosage and timing. I am down yet another pound. This is better then any AAS I have used for cutting as I believe var and primo lend themselves better to bulking cycles.


Let's get a high five for nailing the sweet spot on dosages GGR, always a beautiful ah-a moment. Amen!!!! Baum Chakka Lakka Sister, keep it going!!!!!

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## GirlyGymRat

The haters (some females at work) noticed I am losing. Haters gonna hate. 

It's now noticeable. HA!  :Big Grin:

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## itsmybody

> The haters (some females at work) noticed I am losing. Haters gonna hate. It's now noticeable. HA!


Bring on the haters!!!! Thank them for the extra motivation they are giving you.

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## GirlyGymRat

> Let's get a high five for nailing the sweet spot on dosages GGR, always a beautiful ah-a moment. Amen!!!! Baum Chakka Lakka Sister, keep it going!!!!!


 My sweet spot is @ 530 am and @ 1 pm. 

18.75 mg ephedrine 
200 mg caffeine 
2.5 mg yohimbine (I didn't find 3mg so would have run this had I not been quick to order) 

Today I took 2nd dose later but need to stay alert for the evening so I hope it doesn't keep me from sleeping later. :S

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## itsmybody

> My sweet spot is @ 530 am and @ 1 pm. 18.75 mg ephedrine 200 mg caffeine 2.5 mg yohimbine (I didn't find 3mg so would have run this had I not been quick to order) Today I took 2nd dose later but need to stay alert for the evening so I hope it doesn't keep me from sleeping later. :S


Sleep is a common issue amongst all of us :Frown: One day I'm gonna go back to dinky and sleeping through the night....WHEN WE ARE DEAD!

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## GirlyGymRat

> Sleep is a common issue amongst all of usOne day I'm gonna go back to dinky and sleeping through the night....WHEN WE ARE DEAD!


U may want to avoid this stack. Stimulants are impacting me. Like energizer bunny. LoL.

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## GirlyGymRat

Mike. What's your recommendation on cycle protocol? Do I cycle on and off. 

This ECY stack is the bomb. Down another 2.5 pounds.  :Heart:   :Heart:   :Heart:

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## MIKE_XXL

I am glad its working for you so well...thats awesome...also glad to help out...

I generally do not cycle these, just stay on till the target date...so if you have a target weight or date stay on till you get there, if not, then perhaps 4 on, 2 off...

At some point the "energizer bunny" feeling wears off as bata receptor responsible for that feeling gets down regulated but the Beta 2 receptor is still active and fat burning is taking effect...

So i guess it depends on your goal...




> Mike. What's your recommendation on cycle protocol? Do I cycle on and off. 
> 
> This ECY stack is the bomb. Down another 2.5 pounds.

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## GirlyGymRat

> I am glad its working for you so well...thats awesome...also glad to help out... I generally do not cycle these, just stay on till the target date...so if you have a target weight or date stay on till you get there, if not, then perhaps 4 on, 2 off... At some point the "energizer bunny" feeling wears off as bata receptor responsible for that feeling gets down regulated but the Beta 2 receptor is still active and fat burning is taking effect... So i guess it depends on your goal...


I am down slightly more then 10 lbs in slightly less then a month. I did come off cycle at the same time I started so some is expected. But the last 2 weeks it is all about this stack. 

I am on about 4 weeks so I will take a break for 2 and see how that goes. 

I am 13 lbs away from being in a place I have wanted to get to for the last 4 years. This is exciting.  :Smilie:

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## itsmybody

Over half way there...kicking that goal in the A$$ Sister!

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## GirlyGymRat

Mike/others. Dr says I need to take the body temperature rectally for thyroid. Need a different thermometer.  :LOL:   :LOL:   :LOL:

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## MIKE_XXL

LOL, i am sure you can find someone that will ofer to do it for you...bwhahaha!

I guess i am not checking mine then... :-D

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## GirlyGymRat

> LOL, i am sure you can find someone that will ofer to do it for you...bwhahaha! I guess i am not checking mine then... :-D


No shortage there. Lol.

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## MIKE_XXL

97.7 for me, but i added 25mcg of t3 recently to my regiment...thats good considering i am not tring to loose BF, but just stay somewhat lean...

I did it in my mouth thou...accurate or not...LOL...

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## uhit

Been eating at maintenance and dropping weight from using the 'SCY' stack  :Wink: 

The results would be amazing if I actually went into a deficit.

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## GirlyGymRat

> Been eating at maintenance and dropping weight from using the 'SCY' stack  The results would be amazing if I actually went into a deficit.


Nice. So is the "secret weapon" the C or the Y???

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## uhit

> Nice. So is the "secret weapon" the C or the Y???


Probably the Y.

The caffeine gives me a nice 'bump' as far as I can tell.

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## GirlyGymRat

Just finished the 4th week. Decided to keep on a few more week and then pause in mid August.

I haven't purchased that other thermometer yet lol

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## GirlyGymRat

Down another 1.5 lbs that I didn't deserve this week!!! I am very pleased with results.

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## MIKE_XXL

Awesome, It shouldnt be called ECY stack but XXLStack...LOL...

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## swol_je

So 3mg of yohimbe HCL works? I have followed Lyle McDonalds protocol for stubborn fat and I believe he recommends 0.2mg/kg of Y. So I take 20mg Y 300 caff before my fasted cardio when in prep. Carbs are obviously delayed till pre-w/o to maximize fat burning. Hell my 125lb wife takes 10mg! 
That's all at one dose though.

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## GirlyGymRat

> So 3mg of yohimbe HCL works? I have followed Lyle McDonalds protocol for stubborn fat and I believe he recommends 0.2mg/kg of Y. So I take 20mg Y 300 caff before my fasted cardio when in prep. Carbs are obviously delayed till pre-w/o to maximize fat burning. Hell my 125lb wife takes 10mg! That's all at one dose though.


Lyles protocol doesn't include ephedrine or caffeine. Or am I mistaken?

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## MIKE_XXL

If i took 20mg my anxiety would likely kill me even 3mg of HCL is tough to handle in combination with Ephedrine and Caffein...and his method does exclude Ephedrine...

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## Hirow

What is the difference in the Yohimbine HCI and HCL? I looked for the HCL online and was unable to find it, but found the HCI

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## MIKE_XXL

I believe they are both "L" just one capital and one not, the proper chemical name for Hydrochloride is "Cl" - capital C and small cap L...so i think you are good to go...





> What is the difference in the Yohimbine HCI and HCL? I looked for the HCL online and was unable to find it, but found the HCI

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## Hirow

Thank you! I plan on starting my first cycle of Anavar in a couple of weeks. I saw this thread and I am thinking of doing the Yohimbine HCL and the Caffine along with it. Will it work the same with just the two stacked? I am not sure that i can tolerate the Ephedra as i took it a long time ago in a diet pill when they still were legal to sell over the counter and it made me feel too weird...lol!

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## MIKE_XXL

It would not work the same without ephedrine, the wired feeling goes away after a while due to down regulation of beta-2 receptor and large part of ephedrines fat burning properties come form beta-3 the jitters go away while fat burning remains...

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## MIKE_XXL

Although someone here mentions a method of not using ephedrine but a much higher dose of Yohimbine...

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## GirlyGymRat

> It would not work the same without ephedrine, the wired feeling goes away after a while due to down regulation of beta-2 receptor and large part of ephedrines fat burning properties come form beta-3 the jitters go away while fat burning remains...


Mike. I am not sure if I am tracking with you. 

How do I keep the beta 3 fat burning properties high? 

Only by coming off for 2 weeks? 

I have been on for exactly 6 weeks now. I have hit a plateau and not dropped any weight for about 1.5 weeks now. Although I haven't been as strict with water consumption.

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## tarmyg

MikeXXL, would adding a small amount of Ketotifen fix the down-regulation problem?

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## MIKE_XXL

Beta-3 receptor is responsible for approximately 47% percent of ephedrine's fat burning properties, so even if the jitters go away the fat burning remains but at a lower level, Ketotifen might solve the issue for short period of time and just increase the active time for bate-3 but not forever, i would say a small break would be better to take...

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## GirlyGymRat

After 6 weeks I decided to take a break. Will 2 weeks be enough?

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## MIKE_XXL

Yes should be, take two weeks off and see what happens but it should be good...

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## GirlyGymRat

That 2 weeks was a lifetime.  :Smilie:  Interested to see what happens with cycle 2  :Smilie:

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## MIKE_XXL

LOL, i am interested to see the results as well...as always keep us posted...

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## GirlyGymRat

> LOL, i am interested to see the results as well...as always keep us posted...


Excited to report no rebound since dropped a pound in the last 2 weeks. Life is still in the way so not able to workout much at all. 

Still haven't bought that other thermometer.....keeps slipping my mind  :LOL:

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## MIKE_XXL

Better slipping your mind then slipping in your ass...LMAO! Good to hear about no rebound...

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## GirlyGymRat

> Better slipping your mind then slipping in your ass...LMAO! Good to hear about no rebound...


I found a thermometer. Testing starts tomorrow. If I remember. LoL

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## MIKE_XXL

Would it be fair to say, "lucky thermometer" LMAO!

Enjoy...can you do something for me, can you take your temperature both ways and compare the results...please do not use same thermometer for both applications :-) LOL....




> I found a thermometer. Testing starts tomorrow. If I remember. LoL

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## GirlyGymRat

> Would it be fair to say, "lucky thermometer" LMAO! Enjoy...can you do something for me, can you take your temperature both ways and compare the results...please do not use same thermometer for both applications :-) LOL....


LoL. I forgot this morning. Sure. Both ways. 

My doc said Rectal temp is higher reading then Oral.

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## GirlyGymRat

Upon waking. Oral 95.3 Rectal 96.8

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## GirlyGymRat

Upon waking. Oral 96.3 Rectal 97.3

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## MIKE_XXL

Awesome, you are a true champ taking it, the temperature that is, both way...so roughly 1 to 1.5 degree difference, interesting to know...thank you for the info...

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## GirlyGymRat

Upon waking. Rectal 97.1. Oral 96.4

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## GirlyGymRat

Upon waking. Rectal 97.1. Oral 95.5

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## GirlyGymRat

I forgot this morning. Shucks. LoL. 

continue to drop body fat although also at a severe deficit. Between drinking water and this stack I just don't have an appetite. 

I am anxious to see doctor and see what he thinks about the temperature readings and whether he will pull a full blood panel. He seems to be a decent doctor for diabetes buy the weight management part is questionable. He treats mostly obese and morbidly obese patients mostly. Diabetes and overweight are a couple in the U.S.  :Smilie:  

He has mentioned more then once how great I look and his nurses don't even like to give me IM shots (flu) since I am soooo thin. A gf recommended him to me and she and her husband are getting more access to covered prescription meds that I can't touch unless I hold some rocks in my pockets when weighed. 

Doc is unaware of this stack for obvious reasons. But I wouldn't mind if he prescribed me a little bit of thyroid meds to jump up metabolism at which time I may consider going off ecy. 

Thoughts are appreciated!

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## GirlyGymRat

Upon waking. Rectal 97.3. Oral 96.5

It looks like my basal is lower then normal 

Let's see what doc does with this information.

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## MIKE_XXL

I recently introduced my wife, meaning future ex wife as she asked for separation, to 12.5mcg of T3 per day, her morning temperature was low and she was stagnant in weight loss for about 4 weeks even tough she was in theoretical calorie deficit...it instantly resolved her problem, her morning temp jumped by 1 degree and she started loosing BF at a nice rate of 1.5 to 2lbs per week...i am not big fan of messing around with thyroid but in low doses it can do miracles without overly effecting natural axis...

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## GirlyGymRat

I am hoping doc prescribes or refers to a doctor who will prescribe something. 

I guess I am low in normal range....whatever that means.

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## GirlyGymRat

> I am hoping doc prescribes or refers to a doctor who will prescribe something. I guess I am low in normal range....whatever that means.


Doc going to retest in a couple months. 

The fact that I lost another 4 lbs isn't helping getting thyroid meds prescribed.  :Smilie: 

Doc says my blood pressure is high. I have to start checking it.  :Frown:

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## GirlyGymRat

Down 4lbs in last 4 weeks. I am a bit surprised have reached that dirty little "p" word.  :Big Grin:

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## GirlyGymRat

I took a break from life and the stack. I will start up again after doc appt. the last time I was in my blood pressure was high. They called it an anomaly. I rather keep it that way  :Smilie:

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## TheTaxMan

Great read, glad to hear your progress

Could i ask what dose is good for males thinking of doing an ECY stack? And how many times per day?

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## MIKE_XXL

for me i use 25mg of ephedrine, 3mg of yohimbine HCL and 200mg of caffeine...2 times a day...

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## GirlyGymRat

> Great read, glad to hear your progress Could i ask what dose is good for males thinking of doing an ECY stack? And how many times per day?


The only change I made was to ephedrine dose. 25mg per dosage was just too high for me. Too much stimulant for me. I attributed to my size. I think Mike XXL weighs a tad bit more then me.

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## MIKE_XXL

> The only change I made was to ephedrine dose. 25mg per dosage was just too high for me. Too much stimulant for me. I attributed to my size. I think Mike XXL weighs a tad bit more then me.


maybe 10 or 15lbs...LOL...i am a little guy in big mans sport...

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## TheTaxMan

Cheers guys

Me and my wife are going to run the ECY

Im going 25 e/200 c/4 yohimbine
Shes going 10/200/2.5

I weigh 205lbs, she weighs 138lbs
Sound ok?

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## GirlyGymRat

> Cheers guys Me and my wife are going to run the ECY Im going 25 e/200 c/4 yohimbine Shes going 10/200/2.5 I weigh 205lbs, she weighs 138lbs Sound ok?


I use 18/200/2.5. She maybe able to tolerate something more then 10mg e. I did experiment with 5mg of Y. And liked the results. I took 18/200/5 in am. And 18/200/2.5 in pm. 

This stack strips my appetite - I have to forced myself to eat especially on leg day! 

I would love to have you and wife post up your experience!

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## GirlyGymRat

> maybe 10 or 15lbs...LOL...i am a little guy in big mans sport...


I feel fat now. :/

I had to come off the stack for a few days. Doc freaked out last month cuz BP was high.

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## TheTaxMan

Im trying to get her to register here so she can join in the female area etc and get some advice to help her goals etc.

Shes had ephedrine 20mgs in the past but off duded at her local gym before she met me, i feel they were probably under dosed so we going to try her on 10mg

Will definatley post a log or something with our results

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## MIKE_XXL

Or i feel small...lol...meaning smaller...





> I feel fat now. :/
> 
> I had to come off the stack for a few days. Doc freaked out last month cuz BP was high.

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## GirlyGymRat

I am back on this wonderful stack!

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## GirlyGymRat

Back on again!

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## GirlyGymRat

Hmmmmm my liver enzymes are slightly elevated. Could it be the the Ephedrine!?!

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## Mp859

> Hmmmmm my liver enzymes are slightly elevated. Could it be the the Ephedrine!?!


 could be just from working out in general.

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## MIKE_XXL

Did you increase your protein intake? Add Creatine? Drink the night before? Many factors can be responsible for increased liver enzymes. if you are concerned do another test week form now to see what the results are, this will show consistency.

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## GirlyGymRat

> could be just from working out in general.


Water has been lower then normal.

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## GirlyGymRat

> Did you increase your protein intake? Add Creatine? Drink the night before? Many factors can be responsible for increased liver enzymes. if you are concerned do another test week form now to see what the results are, this will show consistency.


Proteins not terribly high. No creative. I don't believe I had anything to drink night prior. :/

Everything looking good BW except liver. Good and bad cholesterol treading favorably, triglycerides normal (which was problematic previously). A1ac normal which is huge for me (due to victoza). 

Doc has ordered a liver scan and additional tests. He poked around and my liver which still hurts from the exam. 

I will jump on liver support and increase water.

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## Mp859

I would up you fluid intake. Drop the stims and retest. It's probably from training and your water being lower than normal tbh.

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## GirlyGymRat

> I would up you fluid intake. Drop the stims and retest. It's probably from training and your water being lower than normal tbh.


Thx for your response. I will up the water. I haven't dropped the stims yet.

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## MIKE_XXL

How high were the liver enzymes? if its slight elevation i wouldnt get to concerned and wait for scan results, if they are hight, high, then as mentioned by Mp89 drop the styms...its hard to make a call with out seeing hole spectrum of the test, recently had similar request from a friend of mine except his Kidney values were high...the easiest route it to eliminate the obvious and retest to see what happens. A lot of times, unrelated cases to bbing will be the culprit for poor results.
Good luck and keep us posted.

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## GirlyGymRat

> How high were the liver enzymes? if its slight elevation i wouldnt get to concerned and wait for scan results, if they are hight, high, then as mentioned by Mp89 drop the styms...its hard to make a call with out seeing hole spectrum of the test, recently had similar request from a friend of mine except his Kidney values were high...the easiest route it to eliminate the obvious and retest to see what happens. A lot of times, unrelated cases to bbing will be the culprit for poor results. Good luck and keep us posted.


Hmmm. I don't have the results on me. One was 48 and the other 52ish, approx double normal. I had noticed yellow urine but water intake has not been ideal. Now that I have the BW I am kinda freaking out bc liver exam was painful and I am having unusual pain in the lower right for a few weeks. Of course been a google ninja in the last day...could be appendicitis. Lol

I have been taking a new med, vitamin d and magnesium since last BW. I did restart working out and was hitting it probably too hard at first. 

It's probably nothing but I will have to stop the stack before the next blood test.

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## Mr.BB

Transaminases at around 50 are not much to be worried. BW the day after weight training or taking some ibuprofen can easily be the culprit.

Are you not doing weight training? 

To rule out muscle damage being responsible for this you can add creatine kinase to you bw.

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## GirlyGymRat

> Transaminases at around 50 are not much to be worried. BW the day after weight training or taking some ibuprofen can easily be the culprit. Are you not doing weight training? To rule out muscle damage being responsible for this you can add creatine kinase to you bw.


Thx for the post. I may have taken aleve or something bc I was very sore from lifting. I only lifted one week bc I slipped a disc onto my sciatic - whoa that was painful. I waited a few days and tried weighted squats but set the bar down and haven't been back since. I could feel the vertebrae shifting near sciatic so i decided I didn't want to risk another disc movement. 

So no. I haven't been lifting much yet but I did loose 4 lbs last month.  :Smilie:

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