# STEROIDS FORUM > HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY- Low T, Anti-Aging >  Need relationship advise quick!

## flatscat

Ok my good bro's I have a relationship question - I am good on my protocol, and am enjoying all the benfits of trt.

My problem is my wife. One of the reasons I started trt was that my libido had been almost gone for three or four years and I really didnt even know it. One day I woke up and realized what was happening and decided to make a change for myself and my wife.

Now all is great with me physically. I am like a teenager wanting sex all the time. I am more passionate, love my family harder and am more active in every aspect of my life. 

But, my wife is not keeping up with me. I guess I just wanted her to throw a switch on and go back to how it was when we first got married. She is really getting aggrivated with me to the point of our relationship is worse now than it was when I was a slug. This has progressed over the last couple of years and I dont see her wanting to change. I will not go back to how I was before - I like the new me. She will not go see my doc, although I have asked many times for her to get here hormones checked. We are both in our early forties with the usuall three kids, two jobs, and all of the things that can be stressful. I am almost to the point of doing something I said I would never do, because I am craving someone to show me as much passion and caring as I am giving. She should know if can't get it at home, you could get it somewhere else. I cant believe I am saying this.

I don't think I can be the only one going through this - so any advise would be great. 

Thanks,

Flats

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## Dont wanna be old

Kind of funny , I feel like this is something I would write .
Wife would rather kneel on frozen peas than make out with me .
Not sure all of your TRT meds . I have been on TRT 2 years .
I lowered my HCG a little and back off test 50mg when I feel my libido is overboard . It takes a little trial and error .

Just try not to let eyes wonder . I live in Detriot , next to Windsor where professional women are legal . I was thinking , Hmmm . A women with small hands would be a dream come true . LOL !

Good luck .
Dont wanna be old .

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## flatscat

Thanks bro - it is really frustrating - maybe she is getting me back for those years when we only had sex like two or three times -

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## Bigdog99

Kneel to frozen peas!!! lol


I have been married 10 years. I am at the point now that I'd rather jerk off than **** my wife......

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## flatscat

lmao - I am getting there and this is our tenth year.

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## PPC

Would your wife be open to reading some of Suzanne Somer's books? 'The Sexy Years' and Breakthrough' are good ones. The best book I have read regarding Women's hormones is 'The Natural Superwoman' by Dr Uzzi Reiss.

But...she's probably not going to go out and buy it if you tell her to. Somehow you have to leave it enticingly next to her bed table or maybe even in the bathroom when she's got nothing better to do other than pick it up. After the first couple of pages, she'll likely be intrigued. 

This probably sounds crazy on a male forum, but as a woman, I can tell you, if you wrote a nice note with a couple of compliments on it along with the gift of that book, she may be open to reading it. Our minds think so differently.


I hear this over and over again, the frustration that occurs when one partner gets tuned up and the other is not interested in doing the same. It's hard. I got my health back through hormones and my husband started to go down hill just as I was feeling so much better. I gently persuaded him for two years before he was open to it, now he is feeling so much better and I am starting to see the man I married reemerge.

There is another book called, 'Love your husband, love yourself.' It has eleven chapters just on the health benefits of sex for a woman and reasons to do it even if you don't feel like it. It is written by a religous woman but I think it can be life changing for many couples if a woman would read it.

I hope you are not too uncomfortable with me replying to this as a female.

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## flatscat

Not at all - I appreciate your comments. Problem is she is the type that everything needs to be her idea, hell, I bought her a cosmo the other day and she got pissed because she though all I bought it for was so she could read how to please your husband. So, me leaving a book about hormones by the bed would be a disaster most likely.

I think I am focusing too much on her, I need to find something else to do/think about.

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## Vettester

Flats, this kind of goes beyond the typical HRT advise that I usually find myself giving, but I'll stick my neck out on a limb.

For starters, sorry you're going through this. This situation is definitely a department that can make and break a marriage.

My suggestion before taking a step out ... Do everything you can to have a heart-to-heart with her about what you're feeling. Tell her to give you 10 minutes on the floor without anything coming out of her mouth. Tell her straight up that the current state of your condition makes you feel like a 20 year old again, and that there's nothing wrong with that. Tell her to remember back to the times when she also had that passion, so she knows the validity of it.

Loss of libidio, menopause, andropause , lethargic demeanor, it's all a normal course that the body has been programmed with for thousands of generations. She can be the fortunate 1st generation of her family genetic disposition to actually reverse many of the side effects by exploring the potentials of bio-identical hormone replacement. Ask her if she thinks it's just a fluke with you. Also ask her to at least research, but prefer to see a consultant. (just make sure you get one that knows their shiat, you got one shot). Ask her to weigh out the pros & cons. The only cons are going to be cost and time consumption to administer, but if that isn't worth the price of getting a piece of your youth back then nothing is!

But, bottom line ... Have that hard discussion with her. Even to the point of telling her where you stand about getting your needs taken care of. Some might disagree, but I believe your chances for success will be greater if every card is on the table.

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## Jupiter2

Flat, I read a book some time ago that opened my eyes to a lot of things. I don't recall the name of the book or the author but I will try to get that info for you.

The gist of it was this: Men and woman have different needs. A man's needs are physical. Sex is physical confirmation of a woman's love for him. Without sex, the words "I love you" are little more than words. A woman's needs on the other hand are emotional. She needs to hear the words "I love you" and get noticed when she does her hair differently. She needs to be complimented when she gets dressed up, and taken out every now and again. A walk through the park while holding hands is as physical as she needs at times to be assured of your love for her, and your desire to be with her.

What all this gets to in the end is that men (if everything is working properly) are hardwired to go at a moments notice, but a woman truly needs that emotional buildup (emotional foreplay) in order to get into the mood. But understand that this type of emotional attention and affection can't occur only when you suddenly get the itch to roll around in the hay. It has to be an all day thing. Which means most men have to make some adjustments in their way of thinking. If you are already one to do these types of things for your wife and she is not responding to you, then it may be that she is now the one going through a hormonal change as PPC suggested.

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## flatscat

> Flats, this kind of goes beyond the typical HRT advise that I usually find myself giving, but I'll stick my neck out on a limb.
> 
> For starters, sorry you're going through this. This situation is definitely a department that can make and break a marriage.
> 
> My suggestion before taking a step out ... Do everything you can to have a heart-to-heart with her about what you're feeling. Tell her to give you 10 minutes on the floor without anything coming out of her mouth. Tell her straight up that the current state of your condition makes you feel like a 20 year old again, and that there's nothing wrong with that. Tell her to remember back to the times when she also had that passion, so she knows the validity of it.
> 
> Loss of libidio, menopause, andropause , lethargic demeanor, it's all a normal course that the body has been programmed with for thousands of generations. She can be the fortunate 1st generation of her family genetic disposition to actually reverse many of the side effects by exploring the potentials of bio-identical hormone replacement. Ask her if she thinks it's just a fluke with you. Also ask her to at least research, but prefer to see a consultant. (just make sure you get one that knows their shiat, you got one shot). Ask her to weigh out the pros & cons. The only cons are going to be cost and time consumption to administer, but if that isn't worth the price of getting a piece of your youth back then nothing is!
> 
> But, bottom line ... Have that hard discussion with her. Even to the point of telling her where you stand about getting your needs taken care of. Some might disagree, but I believe your chances for success will be greater if every card is on the table.


Tried it - she thinks it is just the t making me want it - when I tell her all the time that it is only her i want to give it to.

But thanks - all of your words make sense. I bet there are plenty of us that go through this and I am glad we are talking about it.

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## flatscat

> Flat, I read a book some time ago that opened my eyes to a lot of things. I don't recall the name of the book or the author but I will try to get that info for you.
> 
> The gist of it was this: Men and woman have different needs. A man's needs are physical. Sex is physical confirmation of a woman's love for him. Without sex, the words "I love you" are little more than words. A woman's needs on the other hand are emotional. She needs to hear the words "I love you" and get noticed when she does her hair differently. She needs to be complimented when she gets dressed up, and taken out every now and again. A walk through the park while holding hands is as physical as she needs at times to be assured of your love for her, and your desire to be with her.
> 
> What all this gets to in the end is that men (if everything is working properly) are hardwired to go at a moments notice, but a woman truly needs that emotional buildup (emotional foreplay) in order to get into the mood. But understand that this type of emotional attention and affection can't occur only when you suddenly get the itch to roll around in the hay. It has to be an all day thing. Which means most men have to make some adjustments in their way of thinking. If you are already one to do these types of things for your wife and she is not responding to you, then it may be that she is now the one going through a hormonal change as PPC suggested.


I think she is sick of me complimenting her all of the time - so she either needs some supplimentation or we are headed for a cliff and fast.

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## PPC

Sounds like you've done all the things that would normally entice a wife to respond. But people just can't be made to feel what they don't feel. Just like when we are children and sexuality does not really enter our minds....declining hormones is likely doing the same thing to your wife.

But I have to say this. I really hope you two can stay together but it is in her hands. She can change and needs to. It's not fair if she doesn't. I think you sound like one of the good guys because you don't want to cheat on your wife, you desire her and you are desperate for her to come around. What woman shouldn't appreciate that?

I found a book in the library once that changed my life and my marriage. It's called, 'The Surrendered Wife.' It talks of how many woman are miserable in their marriage because they think their ways are the best and things should be done their way. This leads to a lack of respect and admiration for their husband and makes them start to hate themselves for acting bitchy.

It is actually fun starting to learn how to treat your husband like a hero again. It works but it takes a brain shift and it's not a popular notion in our culture. I now think if Women left their feminism at the door once they got home, there would be so many more happy marriages and less need for antidepressants. I'm all about equality for women but you need sex and she could find great joy giving it to you with just a simple mind change and a few hormones.

Maybe you could get someone to anonymously send her this type of book. At this point what do you have to lose?. But I think you'll say she'll never read it.

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## flatscat

> Sounds like you've done all the things that would normally entice a wife to respond. But people just can't be made to feel what they don't feel. Just like when we are children and sexuality does not really enter our minds....declining hormones is likely doing the same thing to your wife.
> 
> But I have to say this. I really hope you two can stay together but it is in her hands. She can change and needs to. It's not fair if she doesn't. I think you sound like one of the good guys because you don't want to cheat on your wife, you desire her and you are desperate for her to come around. What woman shouldn't appreciate that?
> 
> I found a book in the library once that changed my life and my marriage. It's called, 'The Surrendered Wife.' It talks of how many woman are miserable in their marriage because they think their ways are the best and things should be done their way. This leads to a lack of respect and admiration for their husband and makes them start to hate themselves for acting bitchy.
> 
> It is actually fun starting to learn how to treat your husband like a hero again. It works but it takes a brain shift and it's not a popular notion in our culture. I now think if Women left their feminism at the door once they got home, there would be so many more happy marriages and less need for antidepressants. I'm all about equality for women but you need sex and she could find great joy giving it to you with just a simple mind change and a few hormones.
> 
> Maybe you could get someone to anonymously send her this type of book. At this point what do you have to lose?. But I think you'll say she'll never read it.


You know she might if it was her idea - or like you say came from a friend or something. Now i just have to find a friend of hers that would giver her a book like that...

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## flatscat

Great feedback guys - I wouldnt mind hearing from some other women as well.

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## Epic Ed

Glad I clicked on this thread. I'm in a similar position, but the wife has been reaching out to find some answers. We've both been bouncing along for a couple of years with sex as a very low item on the priority list. Two kids in two years, both of us with busy careers, we both gained a lot of weight since physical activity has also been low on the list. The "relationship libido" has been low for a while. I've been in the boat where I'd rather punch the clown than actually make the effort to have sex. TRT has completely turned that around for me. I'm not just horny -- I'm more passionate about her and want to make her passionate about me. I genuinely am in love with the woman -- again. 

She's been a pretty good sport, but it's always at my prodding and initiation. She rarely ever flirts or initiates sex. Our communication is outstanding, though. We've talked about it a couple of times recently and she's reaching out to friends for advice and has discovered she's definitely not alone in the loss of sex drive category. Now we just need to figure out what to do about it.

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## flatscat

Sounds like a common theme for some of us trt guys. I am glad she is reaching out for answers - you are a lucky man.

I guess the other thing that bothers me is that she always complained about my weight, and how I looked. I really didn't notice or care too much back then. But I have dropped about 40 lbs, and I think I look damn good compaired to what I used to. I thought that would make a difference too to her, but not yet. It is making a difference with other females though as I find myself in situations with other women that could easily turn into something I don't want to do. We did talk last night and she said I was just a zombie for so long that she got used to it and changed her life to deal with it by shutting down as well. Now out of the blue I am filled with emotions and passion and she is not. 

Man, I thought getting my protocol dialed in was hard, but it is nothing compaired to this.

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## flatscat

I also think before one starts trt, they need to know these things and have the discussion with their wife about what is going to happen! Just seems like there would be more understanding about the process and what trt will bring you back to and she can get prepaired for it - wish I would have known and done it this way.

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## lovbyts

that's why you dont get married until you are in your 40s, on TRT and make sure your wife/steady GF is at least 15 years younger than you  :Smilie: 

Im 47, she JUST turned 30...  :Big Grin: 

Does she like a tan? Talk her into trying melanotan II, one of the side effects is increased libido. Also it has been said a little test ups the girls libido also. If you have androgel for HRT/TRT mix a little in with some oil and offer to give her a massage a couple times a week. hehehehehe

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## flatscat

> that's why you dont get married until you are in your 40s, on TRT and make sure your wife/steady GF is at least 15 years younger than you 
> 
> Im 47, she JUST turned 30... 
> 
> Does she like a tan? Talk her into trying melanotan II, one of the side effects is increased libido. Also it has been said a little test ups the girls libido also. If you have androgel for HRT/TRT mix a little in with some oil and offer to give her a massage a couple times a week. hehehehehe


If I had only known....lmfao

I'm on inj's - and already tried the MTII and PT141 angle - no go, but thanks and have fun with that 30yr old!

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## PPC

Atleast you two were talking and she shared some of her feelings last night. Baby steps. Hang in there.

I'm fifteen years younger than my husband. He always had a good libido and we were passionate about each other even through having five children together. When he turned 50, he got high blood pressure and seemed to decline for the next two years. His personality and libido disappeared at the same time.

During those two years my health went down too but I found the answer in balancing my hormones. I came out of it rearing to go and he was just content to keep declining. Told him, I gave him the best years of my life and I needed him back. Kept giving him studies on what testosterone could do for him. I made two appointments for him with a hormonal doctor which he cancelled. Finally he agreed to go and it all changed for him when he was faced with his low numbers.

I'm so thankful he loved me enough to reluctantly change. Things are slowly improving but I hate to think what would have happened if he never came around. Keep applying the pressure, lovingly. Do all you can before you throw in the towel and then you'll know it wasn't for lack of trying. Books, studies, whatever. She'll read something eventually. Your pride may hurt a bit but it's worth it. 

If you ever need info on what and how regarding Womens hormones. I can help.

Good luck.

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## flatscat

I finally get in a sticky and it is about this subject..... geeze, lmao very RANDOM...


I had forgotten about this thread... I guess I should update since it has been a year and a half. Thing slowly and I mean slowly got better between us. She NEVER went to the doc or had any levels checked. I know now there were other situations that were effecting things as well.

We now have sex about twice a week with me initiating 99.9% of the time (of which I still want more). She never went to the doc or had levels checked - I think she just gave in (which is another whole problem in and of itself). 

Still wanting her to believe she can be better in all areas of womanhood - maybe one day.

Flats

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## sirupate

I don't think I was even a board member when you posted that originally. I'm in that boat too. I have ups and downs on the libido thing, but my wife doesn't seem to have much libido at all. I got her to schedule a OB/GYN who has done some bioidentical hormone repla***ent therapy for patients in the past (compounding pharm. information), and I am hoping something can come from that in a few months.

We'll see. Life certainly has its twists and turns, ups and downs doesn't it? I was pretty non-functional for a few years until the docs figured out that I needed TRT. Now the wife may be needing help too.

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## flatscat

Brother, I am so happy for you that you got her to go get it checked out - that's 95% of the battle.. Great news for you -

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## sirupate

> Brother, I am so happy for you that you got her to go get it checked out - that's 95% of the battle.. Great news for you -


Yeah...well, she hasn't gone yet and it is dependent on her willingness to initiate the discussion about all of this with the new doctor, rather than just go through her annual exam, but there is hope. She is near the end of menopause, or maybe even done, who knows? But menopause sure messes with most of them (women that is).

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## bass

haha, i just read through the whole thing! LOL, this is one negative side of TRT we don't pay much attention to (horny 24/7)! Flats, do you remember this thread http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...SEX!&highlight=

here is how i dealt with it, by lowering my does! when i was on 200mgs ew i was horny animal 24/7, now that i am on 120mgs ew it slowed down just enough to be equal to my wife. i too start things 99.99% of the time, LOL! life is good!

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## SEOINAGE

I find this an interesting topic and something that has been on my mind a few times. When my wife first went on birth control it really did a number on her libido, rarely ever wanted it, and slowly stopped trying hard, then her libido started to come back after her first child, it was slow but it got to the point where we were pretty even, and then to the point where I was far behind her, and she was getting frustrated with me. I've started TRT but very worried I will surpass her and even though she thinks it will be a good thing I am afraid she will get annoyed with me wanting it very often. In the past when her hormones were low she would say things like you only touch me and show me affection when you want some, I'm worried those comments will come back. We managed to avoid birth control pills so it wouldn't happen again, but i know when she is pregnant her hormones will drop.

Flatscat and others dealing with this I really hope the woman is willing to step up and want to make things work. I understand biologically and naturally a man will want sex a lot more than women. Personally I think men should have multiple women like in the old days of wives and concubines etc lol. That is how the body works when functioning properly. Of course that isn't acceptable in our society, more importantly if religion is involved as well. I really would never cheat, but I also don't want to live my life feeling like I don't enjoy it so I understand how you would feel. I personally think hrt is extremely important in women as they get older and I hope everyone can make a good transition and keep things strong, I know marriage can be tough. I married someone 8 years younger than me so hopefully that will offset some things haha.

My mother in law openly complains about my father in law trying to get her to have sex every day, I wouldn't want that on anyone, but at the same time I am jealous that he has such a strong libido.

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## sirupate

Starting things 100% of the time...I wonder how common that is? Same situation for us...I initiate. That's usually OK and works. I think a some years ago I asked her why she didn't initiate more of the time and she told me (I think), that I was the one who didn't seem to like it. Hmmmm. Once again, this could be hormone ups and downs. If mine were low at that time, I might not have been very interested (or confident) about her initiating.

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## SEOINAGE

wow bass that thread is awesome only on page two though might have to finish later. Learning a lot of good info.

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## bullshark99

Yep, I too am a member of the 99.9 club!

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## yannick35

> I finally get in a sticky and it is about this subject..... geeze, lmao very RANDOM...
> 
> 
> I had forgotten about this thread... I guess I should update since it has been a year and a half. Thing slowly and I mean slowly got better between us. She NEVER went to the doc or had any levels checked. I know now there were other situations that were effecting things as well.
> 
> We now have sex about twice a week with me initiating 99.9% of the time (of which I still want more). She never went to the doc or had levels checked - I think she just gave in (which is another whole problem in and of itself). 
> 
> Still wanting her to believe she can be better in all areas of womanhood - maybe one day.
> 
> Flats


My girlfriend has the same problem, i get it like 2-3 times per week, and sometimes i feel she forces herself.

The problem is that sex is the only problem in my relationship the rest is just fine.

My girlfriend went for a consulation to a sex doctor sorry i don't know how you call that in english, she told her that us male have 4 litres of testosterone in the body and women have yet a small dice and the reason why they don't want sex has much has we do.

I was looking into cialis for women apparently its a bomb for them, but even so not sure.

I guess that at some point you either need to live with it, get on porn sites if you are too horny (that freaken sucks), or find someone else. Sorry bro that is the only tips i can give you being in a similar situation.

I have tried many things to make sex better but my girlfriend is just no interested.

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## yannick35

> Flat, I read a book some time ago that opened my eyes to a lot of things. I don't recall the name of the book or the author but I will try to get that info for you.
> 
> The gist of it was this: Men and woman have different needs. A man's needs are physical. Sex is physical confirmation of a woman's love for him. Without sex, the words "I love you" are little more than words. A woman's needs on the other hand are emotional. She needs to hear the words "I love you" and get noticed when she does her hair differently. She needs to be complimented when she gets dressed up, and taken out every now and again. A walk through the park while holding hands is as physical as she needs at times to be assured of your love for her, and your desire to be with her.
> 
> What all this gets to in the end is that men (if everything is working properly) are hardwired to go at a moments notice, but a woman truly needs that emotional buildup (emotional foreplay) in order to get into the mood. But understand that this type of emotional attention and affection can't occur only when you suddenly get the itch to roll around in the hay. It has to be an all day thing. Which means most men have to make some adjustments in their way of thinking. If you are already one to do these types of things for your wife and she is not responding to you, then it may be that she is now the one going through a hormonal change as PPC suggested.


The book is Women are from Venus and Men from Mars i think or vice versa i read it too.

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## lvs

Just throwing this out and I'm sure most of you already know, but any of your women are on an anti-depressant (the SSRIs) this will kill any of their desire to have sex.

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## bass

> Just throwing this out and I'm sure most of you already know, but any of your women are on an anti-depressant (the SSRIs) this will kill any of their desire to have sex.


thats good to know, but also birth control is known to kill libido!

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## SEOINAGE

> thats good to know, but also birth control is known to kill libido!


Yeah I wish I knew that a few years ago. If more people knew that would women take it?

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## NOSUPERMODEL

Hey Flats do you think she might be jealous that it was so easy for to change? Do you think possibly there is somebody else she is interested in?<---- Not a question to piss you off, but you have stated that you love your family dearly, compliment her all the time etc.... and the only "downfall" I see is that you are extra horny. So if your doing all that you say, and your a little extra horny I don't quite understand. Of course I am also only 34 and my wife is 31, so maybe this problem will come up later in my life. Just seem like from what all you have said is that your the ideal husband/father but just a little too horny.

My wife has always said that both her mother and grandmother told her and still do...."If he's not getting it at home, he's getting it somewhere." Not that I would EVER step out on her, but I am sure there are times she has sex with me and its the furthest thing from her mind at the time.

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## yannick35

My girlfriend is 34 and she is on the pill, i read that this can have some effect on her libido... problem there is that she can go off the pill due to menstrual pains. When she is on she is all good.

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## bass

there are good posts by few girls from here regarding the pill is worth reading. check out Slim's post in this section in the stickies.

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## PPC

Yes, it's interesting to see this thread again and what was written in it. I'm glad Flats, that things have not regressed and that they have made a small turn for the better.

Looking at the things I wrote back then, I still see the need for hormone repla***ent when sex hormones are missing. Now though, I think attitude plays equally or even greater a part. Having a great libido stemming from a good hormone profile is a wonderful thing. But I think there has to be a heart change too. I have witnessed some women get hormonally tuned and then put all their new gusto and energy into things other than their sexual relationships. Don't know why that happens, but it does sometimes, maybe these types are just low desire due to the way they think about sex. It might have to be a strong physical urge before they realize they are horny rather than just simply sexual thoughts or feelings of closeness with their spouse inspiring sexuality.

Sometimes spouses just get to a place where they think it's okay to have a lagging sex life and other things take greater importance. I'm not polite enough to keep my mouth shut with any of my female friends about this. Probably they see me coming and run LOL. But if you signed up for marriage, you essentially signed up to be a sexual person. Marriage is defined by that sexual love, it's what separates it from all other relationships. Anything other than honoring that sexual relationship is bait and switch. Cultivating sexuality in a long term relationship takes much practice, frequency, devotion and focus. Maybe I feel so strongly about this because in my marriage, I have worn the shoe from the other foot and know what it feels like for you guys who's partners lose interest.

So I wanna tell your partners, "Hey, give your guy great sex, what's not to love about it!!!" But of course, they won't hear that from me. Instead, they often hear the same complaints from their married friends and feel justified in their attitude to sex.To hear it from you they just think, blah, blah, he's on about sex again. 

A good book is "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands," but how do you tell your wife to read that without having her immediately bristle? Dunno. Patience is good, but keeping up communication about what you need and how wonderful and important sex is to the relationship is also key. That's my latest rant on the subject. I hope things just keep on getting better Flats.

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## bass

great post as usual PPC! my wife read that book and she loved it because it confirmed to here that she is a good wife. my only problem was she couldn't keep up with me so i made some changes just to slow down to her pace, but once she's on HRT (hopefully) I'll reload and up my dose and...................

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## JohnnyVegas

This is a topic that has interested me for a while, and I know we have all talked about it on occasion.

Before TRT I had no libido and it was embarrassing. My wife is younger than me, so I thought her libido was probably higher than mine and I wasn't doing my part. Funny thing happened when TRT boosted my libido...we became LESS sexually compatible. Birth control has always dropped her interest way down, and it messes her up emotionally. Unfortunately, she is a mess physically when she isn't on birth control.

We had a recent turn though. She had to stop birth control for a surgery and has been off for two months. She also has an appointment this Saturday to talk to my doc about hormone levels and how to stabilize and improve them. Our hope is for her to get dialed in and we will need to find an alternative BC method.

My wife is very open to this sort of thing, so I expect only good things. I will let you know what happens.

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## kelkel

Great thread Flats. I've been living that life for several years now to the point where I'll probably file soon. Don't know what really is holding me up other than my son, but he'd stay with me anyway. I've often wondered if the slow onset of my microadenoma was the main contributing factor to this now disfunctional cohabitation! Lovely!

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## bass

sorry to hear it Kel! i wonder if somehow being on TRT and the way it makes us feel and look the wives somehow feel they're no match, kind of feel like unattractive or too old for us! maybe a fear of assuming they are not good enough! what do you think?

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## kelkel

That's ok Bass. Got a great son out of the deal. She's a workaholic and I work from home so I've basically been raising him by myself for a long time. Home room dad, coach, etc. Wouldn't miss it for the world.

My wifes 9 years younger. Very hot, great rack, kinda looks like Shania Twain. We just have totally grown apart and just cohabitate. She moved out for a bit but came back as I pay all the bills even though she makes good money. My opinion anyway. Plus she now seems to be reliving her twenties and I don't really need to be around for it. Maybe it's hormonal for her or genetic as her dad is the same way. Gotta read through those threads on Slimmer me's sticky!

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## flatscat

Looks like this resurrection was timely for many of us. 

This is a serious topic and I hope it helps. 

I do believe that at the end of the day nothing is actually caused by the treatment we are on. The problems that we may have are more likely rooted in the time we spent with our spouse where we were not ourselves and the damage that was caused. But the real problem can probably be traced to a fundamental flaw in the relationship to begin with. Mine was magnified both pre and post trt.

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## zaggahamma

i *feel* for anyone in this place having lived it as well

im my case the ex makes the mother in laws kiss seems like one from meagan fox

also stayed for the kids way too long and thats the only ones i regret not seeing everyday

wish i *NEVER* had to see the thing

numero uno

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## lvs

went through this same thing myself a bit over 2-years ago. After the separation I started taking care of myself again, and feel much better and as result we have remained friends, which is good for the kids.

It is a tough place to be and I feel for everyone here that is suffering through turmoil in their relationships.

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## BillyBob210

Been with my wife since we both 18 (45 now). Many ups and downs but never sexually until my Testosterone crashed about 5 years ago. Of course I had no idea what was happening and blamed things on her as much as myself. When I found TRT (saved my life) and I came back physically, she was thrilled to death. I came back to our bed after a long time isolating myself and sleeping in my recliner, not to mention the alcohol and F'd up psych meds the docs had me on. When I did, it was great at first but over the past couple of years on HRT and getting myself in shape, I find myself in a similar situation. She has gotten used to the new me and doesn't require it like she did when she missed it (me), or even as she did in our youth. I have found that communication is the key and accepting that she just plain old doesn't want it as much as I do. Find a way to work it out because you HAVE to, for your love and for your kids. Even if that means punchin the munchkin like you did when you were a teen  :Smilie:  P.S Cosmo is not good for any middle aged married woman's psyche. We can't be young again even if we feel like we are. Not sure if this helps but.....

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## jamotech

Ill say the same as most of have already, been there done that, and watching friends go through the same. I had an 8 yr relationship with my ex gf. Waited for her to go to work one day, got a uhaul and was out. Only way I could do it, she was raging bipolar and she would have caused a scene. She had been telling me to move out for a while, so ladies its not like I just skipped on her  :Smilie:  I finally got her to see a psychologist about a year before we split, she was then referred to a psychiatrist and they put her on meds for bi-polar. She took them consistently for a month, there was a very noticeable good change, then she started her "own dosing schedule" which made her problem worse than before the meds. She would take like 1 pill every two days, it was a shame really. 

Sex was always great for the both of us, but we were never that great of friends in hindsight, and the friendship is whats gonna carry you past 8 years of sex and vacations.

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## PPC

Been thinking a little more about this. Some guys here that had low T and then rebounded after therapy have mentioned their wives' lack of interest as a possible form of payback.

When females lose hormones, vaginas dry up, breasts deflate a little and sometimes intercourse hurts. The natural lubrication that was easy in youth doesn't happen as easily or if at all.

Men lose hormones and their penis's don't work as well or sometimes barely at all. They no longer feel like hitting on everything in a skirt. That is hard on self esteem. 

So sometimes both men and women withdraw. Like Billy Bob mentioned, he took to sleeping on the couch. My husband (during his low T season would go to bed before or after I did ) Guess he didn't want to be put into the position where he would look like a failure if I initiated. Man, that hurt me! There's a lot woven into how someone feels about their ability sexually and how they think they can offer love. I understand why he acted and felt the way he did and there's had to be forgiveness on both our ends.

But now I think we've both realized, coming out the other side (yet still struggling sometimes) that it is so much more than about our genitals. Peppy hormones or not, we can sexually love our partners with our minds and hearts and hands and mouths even if our genitals are not working in a perfectly teenage fashion (or ever in a twenty to thirty year old fashion.). Poorly working genitals doesn't give us license to completely pull away from a sexual relationship. (of course, pain matters need to be resolved) My husband knows now that it's not all about his penis acting like it's twenty. But it's a hard one for guys to shake. And I know that it's not about my breasts being as perky as before I had my children. It's great when the body works well, when sex is effortless and sweeps us away on a sea of hormones, but more likely as we get older, sex will be about giving from out minds which actually are our most sexual organ anyway. I need to remind myself of this.

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## PPC

Been thinking a little more about this. Some guys here that had low T and then rebounded after therapy have mentioned their wives' lack of interest as a possible form of payback.

When females lose hormones, vaginas dry up, breasts deflate a little and sometimes intercourse hurts. The natural lubrication that was easy in youth doesn't happen as easily or if at all.

Men lose hormones and their penises (sp?) don't work as well or sometimes barely at all. They no longer feel like hitting on everything in a skirt. That is hard on self esteem. 

So sometimes both men and women withdraw. Like Billy Bob mentioned, he took to sleeping on the couch. My husband (during his low T season would go to bed before or after I did ) Guess he didn't want to be put into the position where he would look like a failure if I initiated. Man, that hurt me! There's a lot woven into how someone feels about their ability sexually and how that in turn affects the way they offer love. I understand why he acted and felt the way he did and there has had to be forgiveness on both our ends.

But now I think we've both realized, coming out the other side (yet still struggling sometimes) that it is so much more than about our genitals. Peppy hormones or not, we can sexually love our partners with our minds and hearts and hands and mouths even if our genitals are not working in a perfectly teenage fashion (or ever in a twenty to thirty year old fashion.). Poorly working genitals do not give us license to completely pull away from a sexual relationship. (of course, pain matters need to be resolved) My husband knows now that it's not all about his penis acting like it's twenty. But it's a hard one for guys to shake. And I know that it's not about my breasts being as perky as before I had my children. It's great when the body works well, when sex is effortless and sweeps us away on a sea of hormones, but more likely as we get older, sex will be about giving from our minds which actually are our most sexual organ anyway. I need to remind myself of this.

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## ecdysone

kelkel, you're one good dude. We must be twins as I could have written your post with the one exception (- 10 years from wife's age).

Would be very interested to hear more from you on how things turn out...

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## fit2bOld

Great thread, libido was one of my problems as well, my other half is 9 years younger. couple times a week seems to work well for us. I'm 50 so on the other days  :Ccjerkit:

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## PandoraV

Wow.... I see over and over again the wife needs to step up to the plate and start taking some kind of HRT, BC, read this read that, have a sit down discussion on how YOU are feeling and you're ready to go get some strange if she can't give it up. Let me ask ..... Do YOU help with; prepping & cooking meals every time a meal needs to be made or is she running this solo? Do YOU clean up after dinner or does she? Do YOU gather up laundry wash, dry, and fold a load or two without being asked? What about vacuuming, dusting, kids homework demands, buying the groceries, taking or picking up clothes from the dry cleaners? 

Fellas.... these little things add up and will give you brownie points and most likely come back two fold. Although, if you've never stepped up to the plate to do these things.. she will look at you and be a little suspicious of this behavior. When you lighten her load of domestic diva duties, it will give you more time together to get some flirt going on while working together to re-awaken the sexual chemistry you both obviously once had. Life is kids, both parents working, meeting the mortgage blah blah blah.... Typically, the woman/mom's job is not done until her head hits the pillow at night, then she is on call. 

Sex is the glue to any successful relationship... and it can't be sloppy sex either. There will and are times when one is just too damn tired. Typically, women in there 40's is when we start to rock and roll. Free up her time in the domicile guys.... see where that gets you  :Smilie:  Hopefully Horizontal !

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## zaggahamma

> Wow.... I see over and over again the wife needs to step up to the plate and start taking some kind of HRT, BC, read this read that, have a sit down discussion on how YOU are feeling and you're ready to go get some strange if she can't give it up. Let me ask ..... Do YOU help with; prepping & cooking meals every time a meal needs to be made or is she running this solo? Do YOU clean up after dinner or does she? Do YOU gather up laundry wash, dry, and fold a load or two without being asked? What about vacuuming, dusting, kids homework demands, buying the groceries, taking or picking up clothes from the dry cleaners? 
> 
> Fellas.... these little things add up and will give you brownie points and most likely come back two fold. Although, if you've never stepped up to the plate to do these things.. she will look at you and be a little suspicious of this behavior. When you lighten her load of domestic diva duties, it will give you more time together to get some flirt going on while working together to re-awaken the sexual chemistry you both obviously once had. Life is kids, both parents working, meeting the mortgage blah blah blah.... Typically, the woman/mom's job is not done until her head hits the pillow at night, then she is on call. 
> 
> Sex is the glue to any successful relationship... and it can't be sloppy sex either. There will and are times when one is just too damn tired. Typically, women in there 40's is when we start to rock and roll. Free up her time in the domicile guys.... see where that gets you  Hopefully Horizontal !


i'm prolly not speaking for myself here but not pitching in around the house isnt the problem in some cases but yes housework, good child rearing IS definitely exhausting i'l give u that pandoraV

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## SlimmerMe

> Wow.... I see over and over again the wife needs to step up to the plate and start taking some kind of HRT, BC, read this read that, have a sit down discussion on how YOU are feeling and you're ready to go get some strange if she can't give it up. Let me ask ..... Do YOU help with; prepping & cooking meals every time a meal needs to be made or is she running this solo? Do YOU clean up after dinner or does she? Do YOU gather up laundry wash, dry, and fold a load or two without being asked? What about vacuuming, dusting, kids homework demands, buying the groceries, taking or picking up clothes from the dry cleaners? 
> 
> Fellas.... these little things add up and will give you brownie points and most likely come back two fold. Although, if you've never stepped up to the plate to do these things.. she will look at you and be a little suspicious of this behavior. When you lighten her load of domestic diva duties, it will give you more time together to get some flirt going on while working together to re-awaken the sexual chemistry you both obviously once had. Life is kids, both parents working, meeting the mortgage blah blah blah.... Typically, the woman/mom's job is not done until her head hits the pillow at night, then she is on call. 
> 
> Sex is the glue to any successful relationship... and it can't be sloppy sex either. There will and are times when one is just too damn tired. Typically, women in there 40's is when we start to rock and roll. Free up her time in the domicile guys.... see where that gets you  Hopefully Horizontal !


Glad to see you here PandoraV~

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## SlimmerMe

> Been thinking a little more about this. Some guys here that had low T and then rebounded after therapy have mentioned their wives' lack of interest as a possible form of payback.
> 
> When females lose hormones, vaginas dry up, breasts deflate a little and sometimes intercourse hurts. The natural lubrication that was easy in youth doesn't happen as easily or if at all.
> 
> Men lose hormones and their penises (sp?) don't work as well or sometimes barely at all. They no longer feel like hitting on everything in a skirt. That is hard on self esteem. 
> 
> So sometimes both men and women withdraw. Like Billy Bob mentioned, he took to sleeping on the couch. My husband (during his low T season would go to bed before or after I did ) Guess he didn't want to be put into the position where he would look like a failure if I initiated. Man, that hurt me! There's a lot woven into how someone feels about their ability sexually and how that in turn affects the way they offer love. I understand why he acted and felt the way he did and there has had to be forgiveness on both our ends.
> 
> But now I think we've both realized, coming out the other side (yet still struggling sometimes) that it is so much more than about our genitals. Peppy hormones or not, we can sexually love our partners with our minds and hearts and hands and mouths even if our genitals are not working in a perfectly teenage fashion (or ever in a twenty to thirty year old fashion.). Poorly working genitals do not give us license to completely pull away from a sexual relationship. (of course, pain matters need to be resolved) My husband knows now that it's not all about his penis acting like it's twenty. But it's a hard one for guys to shake. And I know that it's not about my breasts being as perky as before I had my children. It's great when the body works well, when sex is effortless and sweeps us away on a sea of hormones, but more likely as we get older, sex will be about giving from our minds which actually are our most sexual organ anyway. I need to remind myself of this.


Another PPC special......

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## flatscat

> Wow.... I see over and over again the wife needs to step up to the plate and start taking some kind of HRT, BC, read this read that, have a sit down discussion on how YOU are feeling and you're ready to go get some strange if she can't give it up. Let me ask ..... Do YOU help with; prepping & cooking meals every time a meal needs to be made or is she running this solo? Do YOU clean up after dinner or does she? Do YOU gather up laundry wash, dry, and fold a load or two without being asked? What about vacuuming, dusting, kids homework demands, buying the groceries, taking or picking up clothes from the dry cleaners?
> 
> Fellas.... these little things add up and will give you brownie points and most likely come back two fold. Although, if you've never stepped up to the plate to do these things.. she will look at you and be a little suspicious of this behavior. When you lighten her load of domestic diva duties, it will give you more time together to get some flirt going on while working together to re-awaken the sexual chemistry you both obviously once had. Life is kids, both parents working, meeting the mortgage blah blah blah.... Typically, the woman/mom's job is not done until her head hits the pillow at night, then she is on call.
> 
> Sex is the glue to any successful relationship... and it can't be sloppy sex either. There will and are times when one is just too damn tired. Typically, women in there 40's is when we start to rock and roll. Free up her time in the domicile guys.... see where that gets you  Hopefully Horizontal !


Nice first post. Welcome. But I gotta say it looks like Y O U have some personal experience with this. Wanna share?

Btw, I cook and clean more than she does. I am looking for her to earn some points lol.

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## kelkel

^^^Ditto. I work from a home office but still have a full days work to do. I take care of my son in the morning and get him on the school bus, while she either continues to sleep or gets herself ready for work. I get him off the bus and take care of him virtually every night as she gets home late (workaholic) all the time. It's as if she lost interest in family life. She basically seems to want to "direct" me in raising our son. I've naturally grown tired of her "direction" and tell her she can pitch in whenever she likes, which doesn't happen. I Pay all the bills, grocery shop, cook, homeroom dad, everything. She doesn't know what the inside of a grocery store looks like anymore and I know for a fact she only cooked one meal last year!

Only good thing is she now has an appointment with a doctor who is going to run a hormone panel on her that I have been encouraging. It will be interesting to see the results as I'm about out of time and patience....... :Rant:

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## zaggahamma

Good ole brad paisley sang a good ole tune bout waitin on a woman

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## bass

perhaps this thread should be included in Slim's thread Threads for your female friends to enjoy ! i think its very useful for women to read and understand what their husbands/BF are going through due to TRT!

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## SlimmerMe

> perhaps this thread should be included in Slim's thread Threads for your female friends to enjoy ! i think its very useful for women to read and understand what their husbands/BF are going through due to TRT!


this thread is on the list......but thanks for mentioning it Bass because if it were not, it would be a good one. I do have another one I have been meaning to add to it but need to find it.

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## bass

LOL, thats how it got resurrected to begin with! did you see my latest request in your thread Slim?

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## NOSUPERMODEL

Going through old threads and came across this one. So how are things going now Flats?

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## flatscat

Much better since i learned to switch hands without messing up the rhythm. Thanks for asking.

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## NOSUPERMODEL

> Much better since i learned to switch hands without messing up the rhythm. Thanks for asking.


ROFLMAO!!!

Seriously though I hope things work out for you.

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## zaggahamma

Bumped on v day 4 added flavor

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## kelkel

JPK you "peaked " with that one.  :2jk:

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## PetrX

Slip her viagra in a drink everytime you feel like doing the dirty deed =)

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## flatscat

> ROFLMAO!!!
> 
> Seriously though I hope things work out for you.


Things are better and really thanks for asking. 

Best thing i did was lower my expectations a bit about frequency and try to raise hers a little. 

Don't get me wrong, i still want it a lot more than she does, but have come to the conclusion that "it is what it is".

Never any luck on getting her levels checked out.

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## ghettoboyd

> Wow.... I see over and over again the wife needs to step up to the plate and start taking some kind of HRT, BC, read this read that, have a sit down discussion on how YOU are feeling and you're ready to go get some strange if she can't give it up. Let me ask ..... Do YOU help with; prepping & cooking meals every time a meal needs to be made or is she running this solo? Do YOU clean up after dinner or does she? Do YOU gather up laundry wash, dry, and fold a load or two without being asked? What about vacuuming, dusting, kids homework demands, buying the groceries, taking or picking up clothes from the dry cleaners? 
> 
> Fellas.... these little things add up and will give you brownie points and most likely come back two fold. Although, if you've never stepped up to the plate to do these things.. she will look at you and be a little suspicious of this behavior. When you lighten her load of domestic diva duties, it will give you more time together to get some flirt going on while working together to re-awaken the sexual chemistry you both obviously once had. Life is kids, both parents working, meeting the mortgage blah blah blah.... Typically, the woman/mom's job is not done until her head hits the pillow at night, then she is on call. 
> 
> Sex is the glue to any successful relationship... and it can't be sloppy sex either. There will and are times when one is just too damn tired. Typically, women in there 40's is when we start to rock and roll. Free up her time in the domicile guys.... see where that gets you  Hopefully Horizontal !


this is great insight and very good advise imho..ive been stepping up my role as a husband/father by doing a lot of the things you have said and it has paid off big time in my marrige so this actually works...im glad i changed my way of thinking a few years ago when i found our relationship deteriorating...we are now in the best possible place in our marrige, we are both happy and the communication and the sex has never been better...

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## Flier

Great thread!
I would think the woman would find the man´s new found sexual desire less genuine. As it comes from injection of a sex-hormone rather from the heart.
Maybe same as an erection from Viagra is not as conformational as an erection created by the pure lust of the subject woman.
I would think the woman will feel more wanted and desirable, if the lust came without "aid", and therefore the lust for sex would be reciprocated at a higher degree.
Just my thoughts.






> My girlfriend has the same problem, i get it like 2-3 times per week, and sometimes i feel she forces herself.
> 
> The problem is that sex is the only problem in my relationship the rest is just fine.
> 
> My girlfriend went for a consulation to a sex doctor sorry i don't know how you call that in english, she told her that us male have 4 litres of testosterone in the body and *women have yet a small dice and the reason why they don't want sex has much has we do.*
> 
> I was looking into cialis for women apparently its a bomb for them, but even so not sure.
> 
> I guess that at some point you either need to live with it, get on porn sites if you are too horny (that freaken sucks), or find someone else. Sorry bro that is the only tips i can give you being in a similar situation.
> ...


I don´t think this has anything to with it. A womans main sex-hormone is Estrogen. It gives her the desire for sex + lubricates her Vagina and keeps the PH in check etc.




> Yes, it's interesting to see this thread again and what was written in it. I'm glad Flats, that things have not regressed and that they have made a small turn for the better.
> 
> Looking at the things I wrote back then, I still see the need for hormone repla***ent when sex hormones are missing. Now though, I think attitude plays equally or even greater a part. Having a great libido stemming from a good hormone profile is a wonderful thing. But I think there has to be a heart change too. I have witnessed some women get hormonally tuned and then put all their new gusto and energy into things other than their sexual relationships. Don't know why that happens, but it does sometimes, maybe these types are just low desire due to the way they think about sex. It might have to be a strong physical urge before they realize they are horny rather than just simply sexual thoughts or feelings of closeness with their spouse inspiring sexuality.
> 
> Sometimes spouses just get to a place where they think it's okay to have a lagging sex life and other things take greater importance. I'm not polite enough to keep my mouth shut with any of my female friends about this. Probably they see me coming and run LOL. But if you signed up for marriage, you essentially signed up to be a sexual person. Marriage is defined by that sexual love, it's what separates it from all other relationships. Anything other than honoring that sexual relationship is bait and switch. Cultivating sexuality in a long term relationship takes much practice, frequency, devotion and focus. Maybe I feel so strongly about this because in my marriage, I have worn the shoe from the other foot and know what it feels like for you guys who's partners lose interest.
> 
> So I wanna tell your partners, "Hey, give your guy great sex, what's not to love about it!!!" But of course, they won't hear that from me. Instead, they often hear the same complaints from their married friends and feel justified in their attitude to sex.To hear it from you they just think, blah, blah, he's on about sex again. 
> 
> A good book is "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands," but how do you tell your wife to read that without having her immediately bristle? Dunno. Patience is good, but keeping up communication about what you need and how wonderful and important sex is to the relationship is also key. That's my latest rant on the subject. I hope things just keep on getting better Flats.


Great post!

Ah....and there is a second page to this thread....lol, gets me every time.

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## zaggahamma

> Great thread!
> I would think the woman would find the man´s new found sexual desire less genuine. As it comes from injection of a sex-hormone rather from the heart.
> Maybe same as an erection from Viagra is not as conformational as an erection created by the pure lust of the subject woman.
> I would think the woman will feel more wanted and desirable, if the lust came without "aid", and therefore the lust for sex would be reciprocated at a higher degree.
> Just my thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i too thought the portion of test in the female was in someway responsible for her drive

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## Flier

> i too thought the portion of test in the female was in someway responsible for her drive


Yes a portion.
But Yannics doc told him that the reason men are hornier than women is because we have a bucketload of more test. This is not true.

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## flatscat

> Great thread!
> I would think the woman would find the man´s new found sexual desire less genuine. As it comes from injection of a sex-hormone rather from the heart.
> Maybe same as an erection from Viagra is not as conformational as an erection created by the pure lust of the subject woman.
> I would think the woman will feel more wanted and desirable, if the lust came without "aid", and therefore the lust for sex would be reciprocated at a higher degree.
> Just my thoughts.
> 
> I don´t think this has anything to with it. A womans main sex-hormone is Estrogen. It gives her the desire for sex + lubricates her Vagina and keeps the PH in check etc.
> 
> Great post!
> ...



Ah, but you are missing a key point.

If we started this journey to improve the quality of life not only for us and our families, and remain faithful then in my mind that is one of the most romantic gestures a husband can make.

You sound like my wife - 

guess it would have been better to stay a slug in your eyes.

The t does not make us choose anything or anyone. 

Just one more misconception....

But thanks for posting your thoughts.

Flats

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## Flier

> Ah, but you are missing a key point.
> 
> If we started this journey to improve the quality of life not only for us and our families, and remain faithful then in my mind that is one of the most romantic gestures a husband can make.
> 
> You sound like my wife - 
> 
> guess it would have been better to stay a slug in your eyes.
> 
> The t does not make us choose anything or anyone. 
> ...


No, u misunderstood me.
I am just imagining this is what a woman might think/feel.
My test is also in the gutter, and I can´t wait to correct it somehow, to get that youthful desire back in my life.

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## flatscat

aight.

I am really glad this thread got revived. 

This is way to common to not at least talk about it. It is a very important subject that a lot of us have been through, are going through it and/or will go through it. It is just as important as the physical discussion we have about protocols/levels.

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## spywizard

> ^^^Ditto. I work from a home office but still have a full days work to do. I take care of my son in the morning and get him on the school bus, while she either continues to sleep or gets herself ready for work. I get him off the bus and take care of him virtually every night as she gets home late (workaholic) all the time. It's as if she lost interest in family life. She basically seems to want to "direct" me in raising our son. I've naturally grown tired of her "direction" and tell her she can pitch in whenever she likes, which doesn't happen. I Pay all the bills, grocery shop, cook, homeroom dad, everything. She doesn't know what the inside of a grocery store looks like anymore and I know for a fact she only cooked one meal last year!
> 
> Only good thing is she now has an appointment with a doctor who is going to run a hormone panel on her that I have been encouraging. It will be interesting to see the results as I'm about out of time and patience.......


my fellow house husband/money maker.... what my wife and i do, is she'll run anavar 10mg 2 months on 2 off... and on vacations we'll do pt 141... now that doesn't address desire.. what i do is i'll take my hands off, so she gets reminded what I do for the family.. then it's all "thank you for all you do for us" and it helps that i'm still in great shape and good looking, not that i'd step out of the relationship.. 

but she has and does get taken in the middle of the night, it's just one of the prices of being with me.. 

not sure that will help you but be a slave to one another, try to out give (that's what we do) and that's when we are the happiest..

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## PPC

In the case of women, enough estrogen supplies the healthy, lubricated vagina, the good mood (hopefully), the romantic feelings, the desire for intimacy. Testosterone supplies the nipple and clitoral sensitivity, the primal lust, confidence and more of the desire to initiate. Both hormones are essential for female sex drive in top working order but like I mentioned earlier...attitude. A giving, sharing attitude. Because even the most hormonally primed of women can get exhausted after a long day and lose interest, that's when priorities and an "I'm pro sex" attitude is needed. But this goes for both sexes.

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## zaggahamma

> In the case of women, enough estrogen supplies the healthy, lubricated vagina, the good mood (hopefully), the romantic feelings, the desire for intimacy. Testosterone supplies the nipple and clitoral sensitivity, the primal lust, confidence and more of the desire to initiate. Both hormones are essential for female sex drive in top working order but like I mentioned earlier...attitude. A giving, sharing attitude. Because even the most hormonally primed of women can get exhausted after a long day and lose interest, that's when priorities and an "I'm pro sex" attitude is needed. But this goes for both sexes.


thanks ppc
thats another good reminder that women should have their hormones checked as well....is female hrt controversial and or frowned on in any circles even though its been practiced for much longer than male?

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## John Andrew

Do you really want to read books and try to understand women? If you are happy fine, If you are not happy get rid of her, get a new one , have fun, do not look back! OK I am old and married too often, however now I have overcome my addiction to wedding cake I just do what makes me happy. Its either behave or go! My way or the highway. The front door is always open. Wanna lawyer, fine I will not be here for him or for you! To hell with Venus and Mars. Men are the hunters!!! Good hunting!

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## zaggahamma

Good advice Thailand

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## Flier

> Do you really want to read books and try to understand women? If you are happy fine, If you are not happy get rid of her, get a new one , have fun, do not look back! OK I am old and married too often, however now I have overcome my addiction to wedding cake I just do what makes me happy. Its either behave or go! My way or the highway. The front door is always open. Wanna lawyer, fine I will not be here for him or for you! To hell with Venus and Mars. Men are the hunters!!! Good hunting!


Lol.
Love the internet, many opinions, views, ways to skin a cat, based on different personal experiences, from all corners of the world.
I can think of several who could implement your ways, as I see them stuck in the rut, trying to fix the unfixable.

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## flatscat

> Do you really want to read books and try to understand women? If you are happy fine, If you are not happy get rid of her, get a new one , have fun, do not look back! OK I am old and married too often, however now I have overcome my addiction to wedding cake I just do what makes me happy. Its either behave or go! My way or the highway. The front door is always open. Wanna lawyer, fine I will not be here for him or for you! To hell with Venus and Mars. Men are the hunters!!! Good hunting!


Well, there you have it. The answer to all of our problems.

Cept with that attitude i could never afford to fly again with all the baggage i would be carrying - as i am assuming you are now... But i am really glad you are happy.

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## DaRoq

Even small children know that you have no bargaining power with them if they don't want what you have to give...

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## PPC

> thanks ppcthats another good reminder that women should have their hormones checked as well....is female hrt controversial and or frowned on in any circles even though its been practiced for much longer than male?


HRT therapy for women is in a bit of a strange place right now. You're right, it was commonly practiced for women here in the US before TRT became more known about. Then the results of the WHI (World Health Initiative) study were revealed and female HRT was hence forth considered dangerous.

The problem was that the distinction between the synthetic hormones used for the study and natural hormones, identical to what our body makes, was not clarified by the media. The study evaluated the use of premarin (conjugated horse estrogen) and provera (medroxyprogesterone acetate). The first is a horse estrogen, the second is a synthetic hormone not natural to our female body.Estrogen itself is now thought to be "dangerous" by many thanks to the negative results of the study, somehow natural hormones were lumped into the results of the study when they were never part of it!

Now, some women do use BHRT to restore lost hormones. The pellet hormone industry is growing in popularity with females. But on the whole, while some women do break down and replace estrogen and progesterone when it declines, I think it is less common to replace T. It is starting to happen more though. Most major cities have clinics that replace all major female and male hormones.

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## PPC

Sorry for that long post without paragraphs. i put them in but something went wrong and now I can't edit. I hate to read one long paragraph so again... I apologize. (Got that fixed).

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## JD250

No offense John but we can get advice like that on any wall in most public restrooms and in every rap song. Not all that helpful but we respect and appreciate your willingness to share.

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## JD250

PPC, you never need to apologize for your posts, they are informative and very helpful, you are a great asset to this forum and we're lucky to have gals like you on here. If my wife wasn't too shy to post she would thank you in person also for some of your posts. Thank you and keep it up!!!

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## zaggahamma

> HRT therapy for women is in a bit of a strange place right now. You're right, it was commonly practiced for women here in the US before TRT became more known about. Then the results of the WHI (World Health Initiative) study were revealed and female HRT was hence forth considered dangerous.The problem was that the distinction between the synthetic hormones used for the study and natural hormones, identical to what our body makes, was not clarified by the media. The study evaluated the use of premarin (conjugated horse estrogen) and provera (medroxyprogesterone acetate). The first is a horse estrogen, the second is a synthetic hormone not natural to our female body.Estrogen itself is now thought to be "dangerous" by many thanks to the negative results of the study, somehow natural hormones were lumped into the results of the study when they were never part of it!Now, some women do use BHRT to restore lost hormones. The pellet hormone industry is growing in popularity with females. But on the whole, while some women do break down and replace estrogen and progesterone when it declines, I think it is less common to replace T. It is starting to happen more though. Most major cities have clinics that replace all major female and male hormones.


thanks for reply
so i'm thinking maybe even more rare for a women to be treated

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## JD250

PPC, can you give any sort of opinion on the bodylogic clinics, are these comparable to the Florida clinics that men use or are they a legit place to get health care? I make the comparison because I would NEVER take health advice from MY clinic, they merely supply me with the script and drugs I need, I just hate the thought of my wife having to deal with people like that too. Sorry for the sidetrack.

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## PPC

> PPC, can you give any sort of opinion on the bodylogic clinics, are these comparable to the Florida clinics that men use or are they a legit place to get health care? I make the comparison because I would NEVER take health advice from MY clinic, they merely supply me with the script and drugs I need, I just hate the thought of my wife having to deal with people like that too. Sorry for the sidetrack.


I have heard good things about that chain of clinics. Pricey though. From what I've heard they are thorough and would not just supply a script and leave you to it. They may be great for your wife.

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## althor

Get her on test for women. Look up Jason julius female or' blueprint and Vin Dicarlo's Pandoras box. I spent 18yrs wingeing about never getting enough, and now I can hardly keep up. There's a lot more to it than just blowing a load convince her you are doing it for her and her getting off turns you on, more than just doing it. Hope I dont get in trouble for this post.

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## althor

OK I might add a bit more, at least in my life experiance guys dont get together and discuss what and how to treat women. Also the women that I've been with before I met my wife back in 1993, were all selfconcious, I was never lucky enough to have a lady explain to me, "like this do that!" Women expect men to know what to do. There are lots of seduction manuals out there and some bits and pieces I use from them all. 1 thing I didn't know most of my life was. As one girl I was talking to at work one day said that I was dead. I was just pretending, but I said that I didn't know what the secret signs were that women give off when they are attracted to you. 
But now at 40 there are heaps of women that I know are attracted to me. I have allways been faithfull, but the knowledge I have gathered over the last 18 months has given me the confidance I have always lacked. To the point where I dont have to ask my wife anymore. She's even told me her bad thing! All women have one it makes them who they are and my sweet darling wife, has even given me a list of her fantacys. Which I had tried to get her to try before but she to embarresed. Got to go now add a bit more later.

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## zaggahamma

oh althor!

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## althor

oh? lol

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## PPC

> oh? lol


Sexual skill and expertise is not a fix all when someone is not committed to the sexual component of a relationship. Women ( and sometimes men) in these states are not desiring to be seduced. They are not sexually reluctant because their partner is not the greatest lover, it is usually a far more complex issue than that. A woman with low sex hormones and a general disinterest in sexual engagement with her partner doesn't care about how many orgasms he might be able to give her. Orgasms are not big on her priority list. That's just the sad reality for many a couple. Fantasies? She is stressed about the laundry and work and money. Fantasies may not even be on her radar.

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## JohnnyVegas

> Yes a portion.
> But Yannics doc told him that the reason men are hornier than women is because we have a bucketload of more test. This is not true.


My wife's libido has diminished and we recently had her hormones checked. She had high estrogen but low progesterone and testosterone . The doctor ordered a cream from the compounding pharmacy that has progesterone (for some of her other symptoms) and testosterone specifically for sex drive. 

I have always read that sex drive for women is complicated (like everything else involving them). They need estrogen for a sense of well being, and to cause things to work downstairs. They need testosterone which raises interest, arousal and satisfaction. Most frustratingly, it requires an emotional component. Grrrr. I want to know when they are going to come out with a drug that covers the emotional component.

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## Kk570h

> Just try not to let eyes wonder . I live in Detriot , next to Windsor where professional women are legal . I was thinking , Hmmm . A women with small hands would be a dream come true . LOL !
> 
> Good luck .
> Dont wanna be old .


Lolllllll.lllll

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## zaggahamma

> My wife's libido has diminished and we recently had her hormones checked. She had high estrogen but low progesterone and testosterone . The doctor ordered a cream from the compounding pharmacy that has progesterone (for some of her other symptoms) and testosterone specifically for sex drive. 
> 
> I have always read that sex drive for women is complicated (like everything else involving them). They need estrogen for a sense of well being, and to cause things to work downstairs. They need testosterone which raises interest, arousal and satisfaction. Most frustratingly, it requires an emotional component. Grrrr. I want to know when they are going to come out with a *drug* that covers the *emotional component*.


jewelry better known as bling

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## althor

I hear what you are all saying. 

But!!!! Male or female, we are the same but differant. I found that as I got older it became not such a big deal. Not like when I was young going out nightclubing, partying and that.
Women are more sensitive and when you take the time to take her needs over your own. Women can get a lot more out of it than a man. Also think about IT just as much it not more then men. Crap! I here you saying. There are stress of life factors n' that. I agree 100%. But although this a old post the question was raised.


A trick I learnt, is the female interprets infomation differantly than a male, also have differant risks involved with sex, than a man. Oops side tracked, this is still hard for me to do when speeking to someone, but I'm better when writing. But get an old dictionary, dust it off and start finding words that describe emotions, descriptive words, feelings and stuff like that. It might sound stupid useing those types of descriptive words when talking to another bloke, but the minds of women see, feel and experience these words you are saying.
Imagine sitting around a campfire, think to yourself what you would say to someone about that experience. Thats pretty dull mate! Dress it up a bit, when telling your partner. 

eg. Remember sitting around the campfire at (where ever), the fires energy warming the skin. The embers being lifted far into the sky, reaching, soaring trying to reach and become one with the stars. The feeling of joy and happiness as I recall the times camping with my family when I was young. Stareing at the red hot coals pulseing as the fire, consumes, years of stored energy. The breath of a cool brease against bare skin on my neck. 

So do you see my point? One thing that worked really good for me. I only tried it once. Was, I messaged someone. I simply stated. I can imagine how good it will feel, the next time I see your btiful smile

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## zaggahamma

I just learnt a lot

Anyone went campin dis weekend?

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## flatscat

Lol. Yep. But those words never graced my lips. Guess i gotta buy a dictionary before i go next time.

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## zaggahamma

Mayb camp by a weeping willow tree they make good whips who knows

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## flatscat

Rule of thumb bro, rule of thumb...

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## Herman Munster

Seems I have work ahead of me, I need:

1. Books on relationships
2. To discuss my feelings
3. Get married at 40 to a younger woman
4. Get her off the anti-depressants; bi-polar/suicide/depression are a risk worth taking as long as she is horny
5. Just get rid of her – upgrade, the kids will understand. Mommy needs to put out or get out.
6. Excel at the art of seduction – learn her fantasy
7. Enhance my sexual and emotional vocabulary; be descriptive when I discuss innocuous events
8. Build a campfire

Couldn't I just assume she is entering menopause as I have entered Andropause – get blood work and discuss a program similar to my TRT protocol, just women based?

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## zaggahamma

Good summary of options

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## meathead320

Obviously hormones are often the #1 issue in sex drive. That is no secret to folks around here.

After that there are lots of things a guy can do to make himself more attractive to his girl, and its not always playing nice.

Present yourself as more attractive helps. Don't wear your ****ty old rag gym clothes out in public with your wife/gf, for one example. If you take a little better care of how you look/dress and your girl sees you getting attention and looks from other women, even if she wants to claw their eyes out, it can be a secret turn on for her. I was out at a club recently with my girl, and there were a couple girls eye ****ing me, and one even touched me, twice in front of my girl. 

Well, she got angry, naturally. Later that night great sex, and even more enthusiasm than usual.

Other things help like, not asking for sex. Just taking her, and taking control, and giving it to her like an animal, selfishly. Not worry about her orgasm either, just selfishly ****ing her, not being gentle, and pumping a load in her like a caveman. I think being overly concerned about her orgasm is a big turn off, oddly enough. The best sex I ever have is where I am more aggressive and selfish about it. Not 2 pump chump selfish, but the kind where my goal isnt to please her, I make the motion what feels good to me. This seems to get her even more into it. If she really wants to have an orgasm she might just play with her own clit, while you are cavemanning her, you can even tell her to. Then you don't have to do all the work.

One other thing, besides being a selfish caveman that can help, is to talk dirty to her. Bring out the man voice, and tell her what you are going to do to her. You can give her a play by play of what is going on, you ****ing love that hard throbbing **** in you, cuz yourre my dirty naughty little **ut. Ohhh you seem so sweet and innocent, but I know you really like a big hairy man to pump you full of ***!! 

There are many more things that can make a guy more attractive, but these 3 things are just a start. 

1. Dress a notch better, especially when you two leave the house.

2. Dont ask for sex, and be more selfish about it.

3. Talk dirty to her.

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## zaggahamma

U been spying on me Dayam

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## bass

> I just learnt a lot
> 
> Anyone went campin dis weekend?


JP you killing me!

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## bass

> Obviously hormones are often the #1 issue in sex drive. That is no secret to folks around here.
> 
> After that there are lots of things a guy can do to make himself more attractive to his girl, and its not always playing nice.
> 
> Present yourself as more attractive helps. Don't wear your ****ty old rag gym clothes out in public with your wife/gf, for one example. If you take a little better care of how you look/dress and your girl sees you getting attention and looks from other women, even if she wants to claw their eyes out, it can be a secret turn on for her. I was out at a club recently with my girl, and there were a couple girls eye ****ing me, and one even touched me, twice in front of my girl. 
> 
> Well, she got angry, naturally. Later that night great sex, and even more enthusiasm than usual.
> 
> Other things help like, not asking for sex. Just taking her, and taking control, and giving it to her like an animal, selfishly. Not worry about her orgasm either, just selfishly ****ing her, not being gentle, and pumping a load in her like a caveman. I think being overly concerned about her orgasm is a big turn off, oddly enough. The best sex I ever have is where I am more aggressive and selfish about it. Not 2 pump chump selfish, but the kind where my goal isn’t to please her, I make the motion what feels good to me. This seems to get her even more into it. If she really wants to have an orgasm she might just play with her own clit, while you are cavemanning her, you can even tell her to. Then you don't have to do all the work.
> ...


you do realize porn is not based on reality, right?  :Wink:

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## PPC

> Seems I have work ahead of me, I need:
> 
> 1. Books on relationships
> 2. To discuss my feelings
> 3. Get married at 40 to a younger woman
> 4. Get her off the anti-depressants; bi-polar/suicide/depression are a risk worth taking as long as she is horny
> 5. Just get rid of her – upgrade, the kids will understand. Mommy needs to put out or get out.
> 6. Excel at the art of seduction – learn her fantasy
> 7. Enhance my sexual and emotional vocabulary; be descriptive when I discuss innocuous events
> ...


Blood work and sound hormone therapy is an excellent way to start for sure. But there are some guys here who would love for that very simple thing to happen. Their partners however are unwilling to take that step...or maybe just uninterested. This is quite common for low desire partners, they think they are fine, that their partner has an overly inflated sex drive... why feed it?

I was in this situation several years back, I had to make three different appointments for my husband with a hormone Doc. He cancelled the first couple, simply because he didn't want to address the problem. He's not an idiot or a jerk, he's not selfish in most areas of our marriage. Even at that time in many ways he was a wonderful husband and father. He just thought things were sort of fine as they were. Malaise had set in.

It can be real tough when you love someone, have years... decades even, of memories with them... children together. You know there is more for your marriage but your partner is quite happy with how it is. That's why there are so many solutions being thrown around here in this thread. There's no simple answer but so much at stake. Yes, some of these ideas seem way out. I doubt attempting to "nail" a wife of twenty years like a caveman and completely ignore her orgasm will restore solid, ongoing sexuality. And the other side - "give her multiples, she'll come back for more" is not going to appeal to a woman with low estrogen which usually means a dry painful vagina or low T, which often means a hard time even having one successful orgasm. But these ideas are being shared in a generous way to try to help.

If a spouse is open to blood work and a pathway to restored sexual hormones, that's fantastic. Hopefully that will be your case and things will naturally progress to a more positive state from there. Taking that first step means they care enough about the sexual relationship to invest time, effort, money and thought into it. But for some members here, seeing their partner be willing to walk that path would seem like a miracle in itself. 

So they learn to endure, (which includes hurt and misery) or they push for change and make their spouse uncomfortable (which includes turmoil for a while as the apple cart is upset)... or they leave. None of those options are easy, simple or fun. I have great empathy for anyone going through this.

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## zaggahamma

Well said..tough situation

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## bass

so true PPC, well said!

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## Moparman

I don't have this problem. Luckily. I'm not sure I could deal with It for very long. You got to be compatible in bed for a relationship to survive. When one ants it and the other doesn't, there's going to be tension.

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## tripperdogg

I know what your saying OP, I've been married for 23 years and I'm lucky to get anythingonce a month. I always have to initiate sex, usually I get a distrurbed look from her and then basically no real involvement during the act. She is a "MY WAY" kind of woman, I'm always wrong or did the wrong thing . It does get old. I have only just started my 6th week and am finding myself more interested in sex and finding all kinds of women attractive. Because she is in the medical field, she treats me as lower than her since she has a masters degree and I dont. Our 2 sons seem to keep us together thankfully, but there is little affection from her towards me. Sorry for the tale of woe, but you are definetly not alone. I do all of the above, hugs, compliments,work around the house and it just stays the same. I am thinking about getting the book that PPC recommended on page one of this thread. I'll probably just get in trouble for it. ha ha

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## tripperdogg

I know what your saying OP, I've been married for 23 years and I'm lucky to get anythingonce a month. I always have to initiate sex, usually I get a distrurbed look from her and then basically no real involvement during the act. She is a "MY WAY" kind of woman, I'm always wrong or did the wrong thing . It does get old. I have only just started my 6th week and am finding myself more interested in sex and finding all kinds of women attractive. Because she is in the medical field, she treats me as lower than her since she has a masters degree and I dont. Our 2 sons seem to keep us together thankfully, but there is little affection from her towards me. Sorry for the tale of woe, but you are definetly not alone. I do all of the above, hugs, compliments,work around the house and it just stays the same. I am thinking about getting the book that PPC recommended on page one of this thread. I'll probably just get in trouble for it. ha ha

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## tripperdogg

Sorry for double post !

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## dreadnok89

Maybe she's self conscious? Getting older and had kids? Being self conscious ruins my sex drive more than any hormone! I take care of myself regularly, but it affects my relationships. If you said no to that already, sorry for saying it again!

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## steroid.com 1

> I know what your saying OP, I've been married for 23 years and I'm lucky to get anythingonce a month. I always have to initiate sex, usually I get a distrurbed look from her and then basically no real involvement during the act. She is a "MY WAY" kind of woman, I'm always wrong or did the wrong thing . It does get old. I have only just started my 6th week and am finding myself more interested in sex and finding all kinds of women attractive. Because she is in the medical field, she treats me as lower than her since she has a masters degree and I dont. Our 2 sons seem to keep us together thankfully, *but there is little affection from her towards me.* Sorry for the tale of woe, but you are definetly not alone. I do all of the above, hugs, compliments,work around the house and it just stays the same. I am thinking about getting the book that PPC recommended on page one of this thread. I'll probably just get in trouble for it. ha ha


So, you have two viable options as I see it:

1) Live the miserable existence that you have now and be totally unfilled, or
2) Take control of your life and *make a change* either with your wife or not...life is way to shot to live it unfilled and unhappy man.

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## APIs

> ...life is way to shot to live it unfilled and unhappy man.


x2. Took me awhile to learn that!

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## BuzzardMarinePumper

> that's why you dont get married until you are in your 40s, on TRT and make sure your wife/steady GF is at least 15 years younger than you 
> 
> Im 47, she JUST turned 30... 
> 
> Does she like a tan? Talk her into trying MT- II, one of the side effects is increased libido. Also it has been said a little test ups the girls libido also. If you have androgel for HRT/TRT mix a little in with some oil and offer to give her a massage a couple times a week. hehehehehe


Sorry to hear that man but even though "WHAT HE SAID IS SNEAKY IT DOES WORK !" 

I am 53 and been on TRT 5 mths ! WIth that said I am taking MT-II and Cialis so I can be in the middle of the woods and have an itch and I am looking for a knot in a pine tree Jaw Ja . . .. lol . I went 8 years 0 sex ! and then teens got older and the women even started hitting on me, even when not healthy just friendl ! 

Now in the past 3 mths . My mind and body has changed dramaticly and I am spelling better also.

From my experience with the new age woman there is a threshold. For 29 to about 38 women feel sexy and don't mind being agressive and are all about wanting the same things I do except they don't want ties they just want their satisfaction ; no strings IMO !

Then they hit a mental state where they have a little fat here and a pooch there and if they have not been healthy gravity takes effect ! They don't like themselves ! IMO from 40 to about 50 the varity of willing and agrressive females just is not out there this is through my trolling and seeking a place to practice my returned libido ! 

When women reach about 51 they come to terms with age and are sweeter and they face reality they will never be 23 again and they want the same things guys do and the new age woman doesn't mind letting you know. Most are divorces and many are Cougars ! But at the end of the eveing thay have an itch and want a healthy male to spend the evening with ?

Sooooooo can you get her to go to the gym with you and rebuild her self esteem ? In the mean time ANdro gel her hug her long and if noting else kiss her on the cheek and hug her with passion sharing all of the Love posion # AndroGel you can and it does work and then date at the gym change to a joint healthy life style and possibly she will fell better about her self and unless you are having kids the gel will not harm her  :Smilie: 

You make induce a little bit and have her jumping your bones when you get home everyday !

To the ladies who may read this ; some of the statements were very broad and not meant to offend ! They are just reallife examples that I have experiencedin my 53 yr old TRT journey I Live wit a 39 year old hottie and regularly date a 57 year old ex powerlifter (Female) that is now a )Body Sclupter and if I had to pick I would take the 57 yr old over the 39 year old due to not have to teach her so much  :Smilie: 

Good luck my friend and I hope this helps shead a different perspective on your relationship ? 

Not you Not her just sounds like the norm for married or single IMO women in their 40's are in their own world IMO !

So saith the ? BuzzardMarinePumper ! Oh I am not sure if GHB is still around or not but when my ex got to the stage you are refrencing she was 38 and I was 45 GHB was great to help her relax and it was legal and sold a GNC up until about 94 and I think it was reclassified ?

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## zaggahamma

i see you lurking flats!!!!!!

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## flatscat

Yep, catching up. It's still a pretty good read.

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## zaggahamma

calves sighting!

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