# FITNESS and NUTRITION FORUM > DIET AND NUTRITION >  ***Dieting 101: Lean Bulking***

## gbrice75

*Dieting 101: Lean Bulking*

Hi all, GB here. This write up will hopefully serve as a basic guideline for those looking to add lean mass. Note I didn’t use the word ‘bulk’. I used it in the title to lure you in because I’m evil that way. Now that I have you’re attention, I want us to forget the word. At least in the traditional sense. Let’s take a look at what bulking means, traditionally:

The term ‘bulking’ generally refers to the phase a bodybuilder periodically goes through where he tries to add as much mass as possible, with little regard to bodyfat. This is generally done on the off season of competitive bodybuilders. It is the direct counterpart to ‘cutting’ (for a detailed write up on cutting, see my sticky on the topic here :  Dieting 101: Cutting  ). It’s not uncommon for bodyfat to reach proportions of 25% and higher in some guys! I don’t know about you, but I’m not interested in adding a bunch of bodyfat, then having to spend months and months on a grueling cut just to hopefully yield a few pounds of lean muscle… and that’s only if you do everything right.

Bulking is an old-school philosophy and while it obviously works, it isn’t the _only_ way to add muscle. These days, a lot more attention is being paid to methods used to add muscle without all, or at least most of the unwanted bodyfat. It’s a slower, but more consistent process. It’s generally referred to as ‘lean bulking’ or ‘adding lean mass’. We’ll call it ‘lean bulking’ for the sake of this write up. 

*Choose a goal and stand behind it*

People are always wanting to add lean mass and lose bodyfat. Ask 10 guys what their goal is, and that’s what it’ll be for 9 of them. Of course. Who wouldn’t want that? That's the holy grail, the reason we're all here. While it *is* possible to do both (called a body recomposition), it’s outside the scope of what this article deals with, so we will focus our efforts strictly on adding lean mass, not reducing bodyfat. Perhaps we'll address body recomp in a future write up.  :Smilie:  

Note the title: _Choose a goal and stand behind it_. This is what I always suggest to people. If you want to add lean mass, then let’s put together a plan and see it through to completion. If you want to reduce bodyfat, then let’s focus our efforts on that goal. That’s not to say we ignore increases in bodyfat on a mass plan, or ignore muscle loss on a cutting plan. Quite the contrary, but more on that later. It’s just that I’ve seen so many people bounce back and forth trying to micro manage both goals simultaneously, that they never really allow enough time for one or the other to take effect… and ultimately wind up looking about the same as when they started out. I should know; I’m one of them. So I say – decide what you really want to do, and then focus your efforts on that goal. Give it a good 90 days before you abandon what you’re doing. Results don't happen overnight. Nor are results linear; you will go through periods of growth spurt, and periods where nothing seems to happen despite your best efforts. It can be frustrating, but when you stick with it and remain consistent, the results will speak for themselves. Note when I say "give it 90 days before you abandon what you're doing", that's with regard to the primary goal. The need for tweaks and minor changes throughout are common and to be expected. 

*What is lean bulking?*

Lean bulking can be defined as the effort put forth to add as much lean mass (i.e. muscle) as possible with as little change to bodyfat as possible. Very few people can add mass without adding _some_ bodyfat. A bit of added bodyfat should be expected, but that doesn’t mean you have to get sloppy and out of shape (see traditional bulking). Most guys will have a predetermined bodyfat percentage number threshold in mind at the onset of a lean bulk. e.g. if I start my lean bulk at 10% bodyfat, I’ll allow myself to get as high as 13% before pulling back and making some revamps to get things back in check. 

I always recommend people start at a relatively low bodyfat percentage to begin with. For me, that’d be < 13%. In my experience, most people starting off higher usually aren’t happy with the end result. Going from 10% to 13% isn’t all that bad for most. 16% to 19% might be. 

*How much do I eat?*

Here starts the great controversy. First, you have to realize that our bodies don’t need a great deal of surplus calories to grow. If you’ve read my posts on this topic before, you’ve probably heard me say “*more is better* doesn’t apply in bodybuilding”. It’s the truth. For most, a few hundred calories over maintenance is all that’s needed. If your body can optimally use 300 additional calories/day to slowly add muscle, feeding it 1000 calories extra/day isn’t necessarily going to speed up that process and build more muscle. What it will do is make you fat (again, see bulking). 

I will generally start around 500 calories over maintenance and adjust up/down from there as needed. In most cases, the adjustment will be down, not up. It's very important to consistently monitor your progress so you know when it's time to make a change, and what change to make. Generally, I recommend a combination of tools: Scale weight, your own assessment in the mirror, how your clothes fit, and most importantly, measurements! Pick 1 day a week to take these measurements, and try to be consistent with the day and time. While this isn't a science experiment, we do want to keep things as 'controlled' as possible in order to yield the most accurate results.

*Macronutrient Breakdown*

Here’s another place where I see a lot of people making what I’d consider a big mistake. Or better put, a missed opportunity. People seem to think that ‘bulking’ automatically means you must raise your protein intake to obscene proportions. There are a few problems with this. First, I see a lot of people with their protein already too high regardless of the goal. 400g and up. Unless you’re a 250lb bodybuilder on tons of gear, chances of you needing - not to mention your body being able to assimilate - 400+ grams of protein on a daily basis are slim. 1.5-2g per pound of LBM is usually sufficient. 

My second issue is this: protein should always be *sufficient*. If you’re cutting, you need sufficient protein to halt the breakdown of LBM due to a prolonged hypocaloric diet, cardio, etc. If protein is sufficient, then why would you need to raise it to add mass? Do you think you’re body is going to use more? It won’t. In fact, you could actually get away with _less_ protein due to the protein/muscle sparing properties of carbs and fats, which will both be higher on a hypercaloric diet. 

What we do want to pay attention to are those other 2 aforementioned macros: fats, and particularly, carbs. Of the 3 macros, carbs have the most profound effect on blood glucose levels and therefore, the release of insulin . Insulin is a highly anabolic hormone, so having it present in your bloodstream is a good idea where adding mass is concerned. My ideal macro breakdown for lean bulking is:

40% protein, 45% carbs, 15% fats. On a 3000 calorie per day diet, that would equate to roughly 300g protein, 340g carbs, and 50g fat. Depending on the individuals stats and protein requirements, I may even ‘steal’ some of the protein to add more carbs, and wind up with something looking like 270g protein, 370g carbs, 50g fat. Of the 3 macros, fat is most easily stored as bodyfat. For this reason, and the fact that we will be eating in excess of maintenance levels, I like to keep this macro relatively low, hence 15%, and definitely no higher than 20%. 

*How do I arrange my meals?*

There are many ways to go about this, so realize now that my way is neither the ‘right’ way, or the only way. This is something very individualistic and you will need to play around and tailor a plan that best suits you.

On workout days, I like to have carbs in every meal with the exception of the last. This will ensure I’m creating an anabolic environment throughout most of the day. Some people can get away with carbs in their last meal, but I’m not one of them unfortunately. You will have to experiment to find what your own body responds best to. 

On non-workout days, I’d have carbs in the early part of my day only. We have less activity obviously, therefore less demand for energy. Based on our macros from above, this would look something like:

270g protein, 185g carbs, 50g fat. We’ve basically cut the carb macro in half. This will obviously lower calories overall, which is what we want, because we are also trying to keep bodyfat in check. Remember that you can always add or remove if need be, based on your progress.

*Typical Workout Day Sample Diet* (macros only)

Based on 6 meals/day, my diet would look something like this:

5am (preworkout): 45g protein, 85g carbs, 8g fat

8am (postworkout): 45g protein, 85g carbs, 8g fat

11am (PPWO): 45g protein, 80g carbs, 8g fat

3pm: 45g protein, 60g carbs, 8g fat

6pm: 45g protein, 60g carbs, 8g fat

9pm: 45g protein, trace carbs, 8g fat

What I did here was keep the highest concentration of carbs focused around my workout window, then tapered off at the end of the day. 

*Typical Non-Workout Day Sample Diet* (macros only)

7am: 45g protein, 60g carbs, 8g fat

10am: 45g protein, 60g carbs, 8g fat

1pm: 45g protein, 60g carbs, 8g fat

4pm: 45g protein, trace carbs, 8g fat

7pm: 45g protein, trace carbs, 8g fat

10pm: 45g protein, trace carbs, 8g fat

I simply took my lowered carb macro (half of the original 370g) then divided it equally across the first 3 of 6 meals. 

In both examples above, you'll see that I have my fat macro split evenly across all 6 meals. Again, this is just what I do, it's not necessarily what you *should* do. Particularly on the lower carb days, you can lower the fat content in the higher carb meals, and use that extra fat in the no carb meals to make them higher fat. At the end of the day (literally and figuratively), overall calories haven't changed, only the macro placement. 

*Food Choices*

Since 'bulking' and especially 'dirty bulking' aren't part of my vocabulary, my philosophy is that food choices don't change based on goals, only quantities do. With that said, all of the obvious foods should be considered. And for God sake, please have some variety in your diet!! I see so many diets with chicken for almost every meal. Do you REALLY think that's a sustainable diet for any appreciable length of time!? It isn't. You'll get sick of it, and most likely feel discouraged and quit. There are plenty of foods to choose from. Aside from helping you keep your sanity, you'll also take advantage of varying absorption rates and in the case of proteins, different amino acid profiles. 

*Lean Proteins*
Boneless, Skinless Chicken Breast
Boneless, Skinless Turkey Breast
'White' fish - e.g. tilapia, flounder/fluke, snapper, orange roughy, tuna, etc.
Egg whites
Lean Ground Beef (I try to stick with 95% lean or better)
Lean Bison
Lean pork (trimmed center cut chops, loin, etc)
Low-Fat Cottage Cheese
Nonfat Greek Yogurt
Various Protein Powders

*Complex (starchy) Carbs*
Sweet Potato/Yam
Red/White/Yellow Potato (note - I don't make much of an issue over 'white' potatoes vs. sweet potatoes, especially when adding mass is the primary goal. As long as you're not eating the carb source by itself (and you shouldn't be), the differences beyond vitamin/mineral content are negligible IMO)
Oats
Grits
Cous Cous
Rice (all types... even white)
Beans/Lentils/Legumes

to a lesser extent (i.e. a few days a week):
whole grain 'brown' breads
whole grain 'brown' pasta

*Fats*
Avacado
Nuts (all kinds)
Nut butters (all kinds - e.g. almond, cashew, peanut, etc)
Oils (all kinds - olive, coconut, etc)

_Note on fats: Generally, I find it unnecessary to add fats to my diet, as I get enough from my protein sources + some supplemental fish oil (which is a great idea for many reasons... but I digress). However you may have higher caloric requirements than me, and will need to add a small amount of fats to some meals, particularly low/no carb meals._  

*Protein/Fat Combos*
Whole Eggs
Higher fat ground beef (I'd stick with 90% lean)
Various cuts of steak (e.g. top sirloin, flank, flat iron, filet, etc. Porterhouse, T-Bone, Ribeye etc. are VERY high fat and not acceptable choices, IMHO)
Oily fish - salmon, mackerel, sardines, etc.

*Fibrous Carbs (veggies)*
Broccoli
Cauliflower
Kale
Various green lettuces (not iceberg!!)
Spinach
Brussell Sprouts
Green Beans
Alfalfa Sprouts
many other options... think anything leafy green.

*Do I HAVE To Eat Veggies?*
I don't want to digress too far into why eating veggies is an excellent idea. You'll just have to trust me that it is. Briefly:
_Vitamins
Minerals
Fiber
Phytochemicals
Antioxidants (look up 'free radicals' and you'll see why you should be eating foods high in antioxidants)
Essentially, if having a healthy diet and lifestyle is of interest to you (I can't imagine why that wouldn't be of interest to everyone), you should be eating plenty of veggies. Can't stand em'? Don't have time to cook em'? Supplement with a green 'superfood' powder, or do like I've recently begun doing, and start juicing! No, not that kind of juicing - this is the nutrition section, not the AAS section! Vegetable Juicing FTW!!!_ 

Note the above is far from a complete food list, but should give you enough to work with to get started. 

*GB, What About Fruit?*
Fruit is a controversial food in bodybuilding due to the sugar content. Yes you get fiber, tons of great vitamins and minerals, antioxidants, etc. But you still get sugar. There's no avoiding that. My personal preference is to avoid fruit while cutting, and allow it in small quantities while adding lean mass, focusing it around my workout window. Even then, I try to stick with something like blueberries over apples for instance. More nutrients, less sugar. Everybody wins!

*Cardio*

Cardio is another one of those topics with many different schools of thought. Personally, I would do a light amount of cardio PWO on training days (think 20 mins HIIT, 30 mins MAX) but would definitely do moderate intensity cardio on my non-training days, preferably in the morning while still in a fasted state. 45-60 mins. Whatever you choose to do, the important thing is that you DO CARDIO!!! Don’t let people tell you about how you’re trying to add muscle, and cardio is counterproductive, bla bla bla. When done right, this shouldn’t be a concern. And since you're meticulously monitoring your progress (RIGHT!!?  :Smilie:  ), you'll know when you need to cut back... or add more. 


*Post your Q&A and I will do my best to keep up with responding to all inquiries. I hope you find this helpful!!! GB*


*Written by gbrice75 for Steroid.com*

.

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## DanB

Great post GB

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## gbrice75

> Great post GB


Thanks buddy. Admin will be stickying this soon, so feel free to point people to it when you see them asking about adding mass.  :Wink:

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## DanB

> Thanks buddy. Admin will be stickying this soon, so feel free to point people to it when you see them asking about adding mass.


I will indeed, also GirlyGymRat has a good thread with a link to pics of b/f estimates, could also be a good sticky since alot of the time a newbies b/f estimate is way off..........
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...n#.UMea-6wwaSo

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## likelifting

Great info!

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## gbrice75

> I will indeed, also GirlyGymRat has a good thread with a link to pics of b/f estimates, could also be a good sticky since alot of the time a newbies b/f estimate is way off..........
> http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...n#.UMea-6wwaSo


Thanks, might work well in the member's pics section...




> Great info!


Thanks!  :Smilie:

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## ANIMAL

Awesome post GB.

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## *Admin*

> I will indeed, also GirlyGymRat has a good thread with a link to pics of b/f estimates, could also be a good sticky since alot of the time a newbies b/f estimate is way off..........
> http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...n#.UMea-6wwaSo


Thank you and done!

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## MickeyKnox

Awesome post buddy! We needed this - thanks!  :Smilie:

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## gbrice75

> Awesome post GB.





> Awesome post buddy! We needed this - thanks!


Appreciate it guys! Been working at this for a while... but it fell by the wayside recently. Very glad to have finally completed it... long overdue.  :Smilie:

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## --->>405<<---

itll def make things a lot easier!  :Smilie:

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## digsy1983

excellent GB!

another piece of nutriton gold! 

many thanks!!!

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## senorrebo

Great stuff, thank you.

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## GirlyGymRat

Another great tool for this forum. Thank you GB!!!

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## gbrice75

Thanks for all your support guys!  :Wink:

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## ANIMAL

I understand the reasoning behind lowering carb intake on "off" days when cutting, such as carb cycling, but from my personal experience during a bulk I've maintained the same amount of calories and macros on both "on/off" lifting days without adding any excess fat (I'm not on cycle, but am in PCT). Not saying that this pertains to everyone, just something that I noticed when bulking. I feel as though if you're doing this "lean bulk" as opposed to eat everything in front of you, you may not have to worry about cutting back on the carbs on off days.

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## gbrice75

> I understand the reasoning behind lowering carb intake on "off" days when cutting, such as carb cycling, but from my personal experience during a bulk I've maintained the same amount of calories and macros on both "on/off" lifting days without adding any excess fat (I'm not on cycle, but am in PCT). Not saying that this pertains to everyone, just something that I noticed when bulking. I feel as though if you're doing this "lean bulk" as opposed to eat everything in front of you, you may not have to worry about cutting back on the carbs on off days.


There are many people who do what you do (maintain consistent calories everyday) successfully. Tis' the reason I always say people need to figure out what works best for them, and that 'my way' is neither the 'right' or 'only' way. I've personally found carb cycling (in the context above) to be very effective at allowing for adding lean mass whilst maintaining body fat or at least keeping it in check. 

IMO (this is highly controversial, and i'm sure will start a debate within this thread), you absolutely CAN employ nutrient timing. Those who argue against this will say that the only factor that matters is total calories: whether calories are high one day and lower the next, it 'all comes out in the wash'. I disagree. If there was a point in time where our bodies 'added everything up', this would make a lot more sense to me. Since our bodies are in a constant process of breaking down and rebuilding, It's my contention that you can manipulate calories/macronutrients to emphasize lean gains at certain opportune times, and fat loss at others. 

If this weren't true or at the very least worth acknowledging as viable, then what would the point of fasted cardio be? If total calories was the only factor, then why bother with fasted cardio? Interestingly (or not), the same people who argue against nutrient timing blow off fasted cardio for the most part. However, I still see PLENTY of professional bodybuilders continue to use fasted cardio as a tool.

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## ANIMAL

> There are many people who do what you do (maintain consistent calories everyday) successfully. Tis' the reason I always say people need to figure out what works best for them, and that 'my way' is neither the 'right' or 'only' way. I've personally found carb cycling (in the context above) to be very effective at allowing for adding lean mass whilst maintaining body fat or at least keeping it in check. 
> 
> IMO (this is highly controversial, and i'm sure will start a debate within this thread), you absolutely CAN employ nutrient timing. Those who argue against this will say that the only factor that matters is total calories: whether calories are high one day and lower the next, it 'all comes out in the wash'. I disagree. If there was a point in time where our bodies 'added everything up', this would make a lot more sense to me. Since our bodies are in a constant process of breaking down and rebuilding, It's my contention that you can manipulate calories/macronutrients to emphasize lean gains at certain opportune times, and fat loss at others. 
> 
> If this weren't true or at the very least worth acknowledging as viable, then what would the point of fasted cardio be? If total calories was the only factor, then why bother with fasted cardio? Interestingly (or not), the same people who argue against nutrient timing blow off fasted cardio for the most part. However, I still see PLENTY of professional bodybuilders continue to use fasted cardio as a tool.


Agreed, which is why it's key (from my experience) to focus the majority of calories in Meal 1, Pre and Post workout meals, because I do believe the body absorbs/utilizes nutrients differently throughout the day. 

Personally have done fasted cardio/regular cardio and found that fasted works better despite all the theories people come up with in regards to fasted cardio being pointless. 

Again, this is just another reason why people can't just step by step what they read on the internet and have to actually do trial/error.

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## gbrice75

> Agreed, which is why it's key (from my experience) to focus the majority of calories in Meal 1, Pre and Post workout meals, because I do believe the body absorbs/utilizes nutrients differently throughout the day.


Amen!!! 




> Personally have done fasted cardio/regular cardio and found that fasted works better despite all the theories people come up with in regards to fasted cardio being pointless.


Agreed. I've said many times before that ideally, my cardio schedule would look like this (schedule permitting):

45-60 mins am fasted cardio, moderate intensity, steady state

PWO (evening) 20 mins HIIT, immediately followed by 20-30 mins moderate intensity steady state. Obviously, I'd only use this regimen for cutting, but my point is that I think a well rounded cardio routine with variation works best. 




> Again, this is just another reason why people can't just step by step what they read on the internet and have to actually do trial/error.


Once again, amen!!  :Smilie:

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## gbrice75

Bumpity

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## cliffjumper

Super helpful. But yeah, my concern has always been cardio. I'm an ectomorph - currently at 5'10" 180 lbs and in a bulking phase. Gained 15 lbs in the past month and a half or so. I've always thought cardio would burn that calorie surplus that I am trying so hard to achieve each day. Perhaps the answer is just EAT MORE to make up for the cardio. I don't know. Is there a case to be made for an ectomorph to do cardio during bulking?

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## gbrice75

> Super helpful. But yeah, my concern has always been cardio. I'm an ectomorph - currently at 5'10" 180 lbs and in a bulking phase. Gained 15 lbs in the past month and a half or so. I've always thought cardio would burn that calorie surplus that I am trying so hard to achieve each day. Perhaps the answer is just EAT MORE to make up for the cardio. I don't know. Is there a case to be made for an ectomorph to do cardio during bulking?


I don't think you HAVE to do cardio when you're not looking to burn bodyfat, however from a health standpoint, it's always a good idea to incorporate some IMO. Now don't go nuts and do HIIT for an hour a day, because yea, you'll burn massive amounts of calories which will be counter productive. But a good 30-45 mins a few times a week of moderate intensity/steady state cardio can only do you some good IMO.

Conversely, if you're bulking and begin to see increases in bodyfat, you have every reason to add in and/or bump up your cardio.

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## Dukkit

Eating when hungry = Lean bulking

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## gbrice75

> Eating when hungry = Lean bulking


For me, eating when hungry = being a fat fvck. lol

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## Dukkit

> For me, eating when hungry = being a fat fvck. lol


Self control is an extraordinary rare feat these days.

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## gbrice75

> Self control is an extraordinary rare feat these days.


x2. You sound like a man speaking from experience!  :Wink:

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## ickythump

Using info you've previously given me i sort of started a program like this...today was first fasted workout, didn't notice any changes (except for "empty stomach" bile-tasting burps, yuuum)

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## gbrice75

> Using info you've previously given me i sort of started a program like this...today was first fasted workout, didn't notice any changes (except for "empty stomach" bile-tasting burps, yuuum)


lol, yummy! Will you be starting a log/thread?

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## ickythump

!Probably not lol most importantly i don't know exactly what info people really want, and I am not as nutritionally savvy as everyone else, i really struggle with calorie counting and just try to listen to what my body tells me i need for foods....maybe not the best method, however i will not be working 70hrs a week starting next year so i may have more time to prepare calculatedmeals

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## gbrice75

> !Probably not lol most importantly i don't know exactly what info people really want, and I am not as nutritionally savvy as everyone else, i really struggle with calorie counting and just try to listen to what my body tells me i need for foods....maybe not the best method, however i will not be working 70hrs a week starting next year so i may have more time to prepare calculatedmeals


Whatever floats your boat. Just keep us posted with your progress, and don't be afraid to ask questions just because you feel you're not 'nutritionally savvy'. Everybody is here for the same reasons... to learn, and hopefully give back.  :Smilie:

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## ickythump

I have a 19mo old son and gf in school both work etc...but i WOULD like to share my progress, so should i start a thread but not do like a full log?? Even if no one really follows maybe someone will stumble upon it and it could be beneficial

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## gbrice75

> I have a 19mo old son and gf in school both work etc...but i WOULD like to share my progress, so should i start a thread but not do like a full log?? Even if no one really follows maybe someone will stumble upon it and it could be beneficial


I would. It can't hurt... can only help IMO. Should help keep you honest if nothing else.

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## DanB

> I would. It can't hurt... can only help IMO. *Should help keep you honest if nothing else*.


This, I find it also helped in the past to compare results for x and y and see what is most effective for myself, fine tune macros, strength gains and muscle development from various routines because you know yourself that what is effective for somebody may not be as effective for you and visa versa

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## RaginCajun

> I have a 19mo old son and gf in school both work etc...but i WOULD like to share my progress, so should i start a thread but not do like a full log?? Even if no one really follows maybe someone will stumble upon it and it could be beneficial


Do it!

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## JackedAJ

Yo Gbrice,
Is all this protein necessary? I feel like if I start to eat any more than 250 grams a day my lower back starts to hurt. What Can I do?

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## gbrice75

> Yo Gbrice,
> Is all this protein necessary? I feel like if I start to eat any more than 250 grams a day my lower back starts to hurt. What Can I do?


What are your stats and goals? Also, do you have any known kidney issues? I'm wondering if that's not contributing at least in part to your lower back pain...

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## ma_fighter

> Yo Gbrice,
> Is all this protein necessary? I feel like if I start to eat any more than 250 grams a day my lower back starts to hurt. What Can I do?


Are you using any meds or supplements? creatine?
Is your wee foaming/frothing?

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## JackedAJ

> What are your stats and goals? Also, do you have any known kidney issues? I'm wondering if that's not contributing at least in part to your lower back pain...


I'm not to sure. I do not think there are any kidney problems in my family. I got blood test done about 4 months ago, a few things were elevated but nothing to be concerned about. 

I am 5'8'' around 157 pounds. ~13% bodyfat. Goal is 160 lbs with 7% bodyfat.

Here is my current Diet.

Cals
2558
Fat
54 g
Carbs
287 g
Protein
223 g
Sugars
38 g

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## JackedAJ

> Are you using any meds or supplements? creatine?
> Is your wee foaming/frothing?


I am taking creatine mono. Also will check out my wizz next time.

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## Bertuzzi

Great post brother..... well done!

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## APower

great and informative post. my compliments! should help out alot of dieters.

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## gbrice75

> I'm not to sure. I do not think there are any kidney problems in my family. I got blood test done about 4 months ago, a few things were elevated but nothing to be concerned about. 
> 
> I am 5'8'' around 157 pounds. ~13% bodyfat. Goal is 160 lbs with 7% bodyfat.
> 
> Here is my current Diet.
> 
> Cals
> 2558
> Fat
> ...


Not sure brother... all I can say is if you've noticed pain and the only variable is protein being over 250g, stay under 250g! 




> Great post brother..... well done!


Thx Bert!




> great and informative post. my compliments! should help out alot of dieters.


Thx AP, appreciate it!  :Wink:

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## Jhernandez

How's it going guys. New to the forum and would like to say nice writing GB. Also, been scanning the forums for advice but, I'm still unsure on how to go about my diet. If you would like to see the plan i've come up with ill be more then happy to post my mediocre dietary plan for the upcoming months lol I think where i struggle the most is finding a place to add more calories. According to my TDEE i burn more than i eat  :1confused:  Maybe I can get some help tweeking it a bit, never hurts to ask.

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## RaginCajun

> How's it going guys. New to the forum and would like to say nice writing GB. Also, been scanning the forums for advice but, I'm still unsure on how to go about my diet. If you would like to see the plan i've come up with ill be more then happy to post my mediocre dietary plan for the upcoming months lol I think where i struggle the most is finding a place to add more calories. According to my TDEE i burn more than i eat  Maybe I can get some help tweeking it a bit, never hurts to ask.


go make a new thread so we all can critique!

welcome!

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## Jhernandez

Thanks! Will do.

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## gbrice75

> How's it going guys. New to the forum and would like to say nice writing GB.


Thanks!




> Also, been scanning the forums for advice but, I'm still unsure on how to go about my diet. If you would like to see the plan i've come up with ill be more then happy to post my mediocre dietary plan for the upcoming months lol I think where i struggle the most is finding a place to add more calories. According to my TDEE i burn more than i eat  Maybe I can get some help tweeking it a bit, never hurts to ask.





> go make a new thread so we all can critique!
> 
> welcome!


^^ this!! If you've already done so and care to have my input, please link me to your thread.  :Smilie:

----------


## baseline_9

Good to see this thread made it onto the board m8.... I will read through it fully l8r... Looks good tho  :Smilie:

----------


## gbrice75

> Good to see this thread made it onto the board m8.... I will read through it fully l8r... Looks good tho


Thanks brother. Appreciate your input while I was writing it up.  :Smilie:

----------


## basketballfan22

Hi gbrice75,

I was recommended to read your lean bulking thread, and I am glad that I did. I am an ectomorph myself, as another member posted; and my goal is to be a ripped 200 pounds. Currently, I am 23, 6'0, and weigh around 182 pounds. I don't think I am as sensitive to carbs and fat as others, so I was shooting for a 40%:25%:35% split of carbohydrates to fat to protein ratio on a 3440 calorie diet. I use the myfitnesspal app on my iPhone to help monitor the amounts, but I wasn't noticing much gains. Anyway, I will definitely try using your recommendations. I don't want to "steal" your thread, so I hope you don't mind these 3 links to threads I have started. If so, I will edit them out. The diet thread is very incomplete. The items listed are items that I ALWAYS eat, but clearly they don't meet the caloric and caloric breakdown needs. I meet the rest of my needs by a much more diverse diet. Anyway, I would appreciate any advice.

Thanks.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...e#.UPxUx6Wi1N0

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...e#.UPxUtKWi1N0

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...k#.UPxUnaWi1N0

----------


## gbrice75

> Hi gbrice75,
> 
> I was recommended to read your lean bulking thread, and I am glad that I did. I am an ectomorph myself, as another member posted; and my goal is to be a ripped 200 pounds. Currently, I am 23, 6'0, and weigh around 182 pounds. I don't think I am as sensitive to carbs and fat as others, so I was shooting for a 40%:25%:35% split of carbohydrates to fat to protein ratio on a 3440 calorie diet. I use the myfitnesspal app on my iPhone to help monitor the amounts, but I wasn't noticing much gains. Anyway, I will definitely try using your recommendations. I don't want to "steal" your thread, so I hope you don't mind these 3 links to threads I have started. If so, I will edit them out. The diet thread is very incomplete. The items listed are items that I ALWAYS eat, but clearly they don't meet the caloric and caloric breakdown needs. I meet the rest of my needs by a much more diverse diet. Anyway, I would appreciate any advice.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...e#.UPxUx6Wi1N0
> 
> http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...e#.UPxUtKWi1N0
> ...


No problem on the links. I'll try and have a look asap. I glanced while I was on my iphone and it looked like you were already getting advice from solid members here... I even saw Marcus chiming in. You're in good hands with those guys.  :Smilie:

----------


## basketballfan22

Yeah, I am very pleased with the advice I have been getting thus far; but I like to get as much advice from as many credible sources as possible before I make my own opinions and decisions. One question I have for you that you did not mention in your dieting 101 thread concerns with the use of creatine. For the last 5 years that I have been working out, I have never used creatine. I know many of my fellow gym goers use creatine as a staple in their diet/supplementation, but I am still hesitant about taking creatine. The primary reason I read your thread (and what I have been trying to do since I started lifting) was to learn how to gain lean mass. I never want to have that big, bulky look, even if it's just a temporary phase. I enjoy the definition that I have now at 180 pounds; I just want to increase the lean mass. I read the creatine FAQ thread by IM708, and I noticed you posted in it mentioning how you also take creatine (am I the only person that doesn't?). The major issue I have with it is the whole bloating and water retention effect it has. I have read articles on bodybuilding dot com about creatine ethyl ester (CEE) which sound promising, but some members here like IM708 believe it to be a bunch of bullshit. The touted benefits of CEE are that it doesn't have the bloating effect that micronized creatine does. Anyway, I would really like to reach my goal of a ripped (keep my six-pack) 200 pounds without taking creatine. Do you think that is a good idea, or do you think it is pretty much essential for me to incorporate creatine in my supplementation?

Thanks.

----------


## gbrice75

> Yeah, I am very pleased with the advice I have been getting thus far; but I like to get as much advice from as many credible sources as possible before I make my own opinions and decisions. One question I have for you that you did not mention in your dieting 101 thread concerns with the use of creatine. For the last 5 years that I have been working out, I have never used creatine. I know many of my fellow gym goers use creatine as a staple in their diet/supplementation, but I am still hesitant about taking creatine. The primary reason I read your thread (and what I have been trying to do since I started lifting) was to learn how to gain lean mass. I never want to have that big, bulky look, even if it's just a temporary phase. I enjoy the definition that I have now at 180 pounds; I just want to increase the lean mass. I read the creatine FAQ thread by IM708, and I noticed you posted in it mentioning how you also take creatine (am I the only person that doesn't?). The major issue I have with it is the whole bloating and water retention effect it has. I have read articles on bodybuilding dot com about creatine ethyl ester (CEE) which sound promising, but some members here like IM708 believe it to be a bunch of bullshit. The touted benefits of CEE are that it doesn't have the bloating effect that micronized creatine does. Anyway, I would really like to reach my goal of a ripped (keep my six-pack) 200 pounds without taking creatine. Do you think that is a good idea, or do you think it is pretty much essential for me to incorporate creatine in my supplementation?
> 
> Thanks.


I wouldn't put another second's thought into it bro. I most definitely don't think creatine is a necessary supplement. I only recently started taking it, and I'm still not convinced it's providing any benefit. Basically, i'm only taking for that 'just in case' factor. When I start cutting in 6 weeks, i'll likely discontinue usage throughout the spring/summer.

----------


## basketballfan22

Awesome. I think I will hold off on taking it then. One more question for you. Do you take any BCAA supplements? I know BCAAs are found naturally in food, but I was curious if you took any. Thanks.

----------


## gbrice75

> Awesome. I think I will hold off on taking it then. One more question for you. Do you take any BCAA supplements? I know BCAAs are found naturally in food, but I was curious if you took any. Thanks.


Not currently, but whenever I use IF dieting I do, and probably will when I start my cut as well. I like Purple Wraath by Controlled Labs, but there are plenty of good products out there.

----------


## basketballfan22

Hey gb,

I just read a thread about the negatives of milk and dairy products in general. I religiously consume 3 cups of nonfat milk and 1 cup of nonfat Greek yogurt per day. Is this too much dairy? As I have mentioned before, I have a very fast metabolism and have never done a cycle before so perhaps I am not as sensitive to the estrogen and sugar content. This makes me very sad, as those two items are a very easy and cheap source for 50 grams of protein and 400 calories in addition to the great taste.

----------


## gbrice75

> Hey gb,
> 
> I just read a thread about the negatives of milk and dairy products in general. I religiously consume 3 cups of nonfat milk and 1 cup of nonfat Greek yogurt per day. Is this too much dairy? As I have mentioned before, I have a very fast metabolism and have never done a cycle before so perhaps I am not as sensitive to the estrogen and sugar content. This makes me very sad, as those two items are a very easy and cheap source for 50 grams of protein and 400 calories in addition to the great taste.


Welcome to the club. I too love dairy and rely on it quite a bit. Whether you're relying on it 'too much' or not really depends on your body. Some people do fine with dairy, others just can't handle it and as a result, get gassy and bloated, etc. Is this you? Then you're probably eating too much and should try cutting back. If not, then consider yourself lucky!

Re: the sugar content - yes, it's a concern for me, especially when cutting. I'd opt for lower sugar choices like cottage cheese and (to a lesser extent) Greek yogurt over milk. I don't know that studies on estrogen and dairy are conclusive. Until they are, I'm not personally ready to ditch it just yet.

----------


## --->>405<<---

morning GB! unusual for u to be here this early esp on a saturday.. when does the cut start? cutting thread??

----------


## gbrice75

> morning GB! unusual for u to be here this early esp on a saturday.. when does the cut start? cutting thread??


What's up bud?! Yea, just checking in via my iPhone... the cut starts in 5 weeks... it'll be right around March 1st. I haven't decided yet whether to start a new thread or continue with the existing one, but I'll probably opt for the former seeing as 'GB Checking In' doesn't exactly scream cutting accountability thread (or anything else for that matter... no idea what I was thinking when I created it lol!).  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ looking forward to it! (im sure ur not  :Wink: ) LOL

----------


## gbrice75

> ^^ looking forward to it! (im sure ur not ) LOL


lol... definitely not looking forward to having to be super disciplined again, but I am looking forward to the results that will yield, not to mention the sense of self control I'll regain.  :Smilie:

----------


## basketballfan22

> Welcome to the club. I too love dairy and rely on it quite a bit. Whether you're relying on it 'too much' or not really depends on your body. Some people do fine with dairy, others just can't handle it and as a result, get gassy and bloated, etc. Is this you? Then you're probably eating too much and should try cutting back. If not, then consider yourself lucky!
> 
> Re: the sugar content - yes, it's a concern for me, especially when cutting. I'd opt for lower sugar choices like cottage cheese and (to a lesser extent) Greek yogurt over milk. I don't know that studies on estrogen and dairy are conclusive. Until they are, I'm not personally ready to ditch it just yet.


No, I don't feel bad at all after drinking milk. Honestly, I believe I have been over-thinking a lot lately; so I will probably stick to my milk and yogurt. I have a tendency to over-analyze everything. Perhaps after I bulk up a bit, I will limit my milk intake if/when I am trying to burn some fat.

----------


## gbrice75

> No, I don't feel bad at all after drinking milk. Honestly, I believe I have been over-thinking a lot lately; so I will probably stick to my milk and yogurt. I have a tendency to over-analyze everything. Perhaps after I bulk up a bit, I will limit my milk intake if/when I am trying to burn some fat.


Re: over thinking - you remind me of somebody else (405, *cough cough*) when he first got here!  :Wink: 

I'm sort of the same way tbh, but unless you're stepping on stage any time soon, you really can just keep it simple and make progress. The key is consistency. I've said before - an imperfect plan that's executed with 100% consistency will beat the 'perfect' plan that's deviated from every time.

----------


## basketballfan22

> Re: over thinking - you remind me of somebody else (405, *cough cough*) when he first got here! 
> 
> I'm sort of the same way tbh, but unless you're stepping on stage any time soon, you really can just keep it simple and make progress. The key is consistency. I've said before - an imperfect plan that's executed with 100% consistency will beat the 'perfect' plan that's deviated from every time.


Haha. I kind of figured there would be some members like me here, and that is why I registered. I love your quote "an imperfect plan that's executed with 100% consistency will beat the 'perfect' plan that's deviated from every time." I need to keep that in mind.

----------


## gbrice75

> Haha. I kind of figured there would be some members like me here, and that is why I registered. I love your quote "an imperfect plan that's executed with 100% consistency will beat the 'perfect' plan that's deviated from every time." I need to keep that in mind.


^^  :Wink:

----------


## -KJ-

> I've said before - an imperfect plan that's executed with 100% consistency will beat the 'perfect' plan that's deviated from every time.


This every time! These words are the key... It happens everyone but these words will stick with me....

----------


## gbrice75

> This every time! These words are the key... It happens everyone but these words will stick with me....


Glad to hear it buddy!

----------


## basketballfan22

Hey again! Haha, I am sorry if I am starting to annoy you with all my damn questions; but I have another one for you. I just read a post SteM had in another thread, and he advised not to take dextrose and also to wait at least 30 minutes after a workout to eat any carbs. This was in a thread about leanly bulking too. I have been taking dextrose for the past month, and I still have half of the container left. I read that dextrose and maltose were great after a workout because of the insulin spike it causes which allows the protein to reach the muscles more quickly as well as restoring glycogen levels. This is on top of reading articles that some bodybuilders eat gummy bears because of their high GI sugars. Which stance do you take?

----------


## gbrice75

> Hey again! Haha, I am sorry if I am starting to annoy you with all my damn questions; but I have another one for you.


lol, no worries.




> I just read a post SteM had in another thread, and he advised not to take dextrose and also to wait at least 30 minutes after a workout to eat any carbs. This was in a thread about leanly bulking too. I have been taking dextrose for the past month, and I still have half of the container left. I read that dextrose and maltose were great after a workout because of the insulin spike it causes which allows the protein to reach the muscles more quickly as well as restoring glycogen levels. This is on top of reading articles that some bodybuilders eat gummy bears because of their high GI sugars. Which stance do you take?


I'm with Stem - I am not a fan of simple carbs PWO (not as a primary source anyway... a piece of fruit along with some complex carbs is fine), and definitely not a fan of consuming pure sugar, EVER. The whole PWO insulin spike thing was a 90's trend that has pretty much fallen off these days. Sure some people still do it - but that's because it's all the majority of people know. If the 'anabolic window' theory were true (it isn't), and we had exactly 1.34354545 hours to get our PWO nutrition in otherwise all was for naught - then i'd be all about high GI carbs PWO. Since REAL studies (vs. what kids read in bodybuilding mags whose MO is to push supplements) show protein synthesis continues to increase several hours PWO (upwards of 24 hours), there's no need to rush. IMO.  :Wink:

----------


## basketballfan22

Okay. I have read studies on how nutrition timing was not as essential as once thought, but I guess I am like you with your stance with creatine in that it is "better to be safe than sorry" idea. I used to eat a banana and some honey with my shake, but I got "sucked in" the hype about dextrose and simple sugars post workout. I guess that saves me money on supplements! Also, I think I am going to stop taking my multivitamin. Good idea, or bad? I have read studies that showed most people get enough vitamins from a complete diet and that multivitamins can even be more harmful.

----------


## gbrice75

> Okay. I have read studies on how nutrition timing was not as essential as once thought, but I guess I am like you with your stance with creatine in that it is "better to be safe than sorry" idea. I used to eat a banana and some honey with my shake, but I got "sucked in" the hype about dextrose and simple sugars post workout. I guess that saves me money on supplements!


Re; the 'better safe than sorry' mentality - if you feel this way about PWO nutrition, eat right after your workout - but I still don't feel simple carbs are essential. My point is I've seen people (and have done so myself) delay PWO nutrition several hours... the the change for me in your case would be meal time, not so much simple vs. complex. I'd still opt for complex with a bit of fruit. Best of both worlds IMO.




> Also, I think I am going to stop taking my multivitamin. Good idea, or bad? I have read studies that showed *most people* get enough vitamins from a complete diet and that multivitamins can even be more harmful.


We're not 'most people'. We live a lifestyle that's physically demanding, and the way we eat is just as demanding on our bodies. Personally, I'd stick with a multi. The fact is you don't know exactly what you're getting (or lacking) from foods... a multi ensures you're covered.

----------


## basketballfan22

I really need to start waiting and asking all of my questions at once, but what about vitamin B12 injections? I have noticed austinite is all about it. I am not sure about the effectiveness on appetite and energy though. It isn't too expensive at $34 for 30 mL, but I was curious what you think about it. Now most of the people on it are on some type of cycle which I am not. The only supplements I take are a multivitamin, fish oil, whey protein isolate, and casein. Anyway, thanks again.

Oh and have you heard about Cialis as a pre-workout supplement? It is too expensive for me, but I thought it was pretty interesting. There aren't any side effects that I could find because I hate taking any type of medication, but apparently 5 mg every day really gives you extra energy and pump, and Turkish Juicer swears by it. I thought I would just mention it though.

----------


## gbrice75

> I really need to start waiting and asking all of my questions at once, but what about vitamin B12 injections? I have noticed austinite is all about it. I am not sure about the effectiveness on appetite and energy though. It isn't too expensive at $34 for 30 mL, but I was curious what you think about it. Now most of the people on it are on some type of cycle which I am not. The only supplements I take are a multivitamin, fish oil, whey protein isolate, and casein. Anyway, thanks again.


No problem, ask em' as you think of em. That's why we're here. 

But seeing as you mentioned it, and this is a lean bulking thread vs. a 'general questions' thread, my 'Ask GB anything' thread would be more fitting for these questions.  :Wink:  http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...*#.UQbqWx1EGSo

Re: B12 - i'm not opposed to them, but IMHO you can more easily take a B12 pill every day (I take B-complex 2x daily) and get the same result for the most part. I don't think a B12 injection is going to make any ground breaking difference - but I've never done one, so I can't speak from experience on this. 




> Oh and have you heard about Cialis as a pre-workout supplement? It is too expensive for me, but I thought it was pretty interesting. There aren't any side effects that I could find because I hate taking any type of medication, but apparently 5 mg every day really gives you extra energy and pump, and Turkish Juicer swears by it. I thought I would just mention it though.


5mg is low dose for Cialis, so I wouldn't be surprised not to see any sides. Yes, it's used as a preworkout supp. mainly because it's a vasodilator, allowing for more blood flow, more oxygen to the muscles, better pumps and vascularity, etc.

----------


## mockery

Should cover the topics of actually adding more animal fat to lean mass diets for increased calories and the simple fact that animals fats help us lose fat. plus realy good energy source if running low carbs. People back away from fats far to often thinking they are so bad.

----------


## mockery

> Re: B12 - i'm not opposed to them, but IMHO you can more easily take a B12 pill every day (I take B-complex 2x daily) and get the same result for the most part. I don't think a B12 injection is going to make any ground breaking difference - but I've never done one, so I can't speak from experience on this.


The way your body takes up b12 , injectable is a better way, but think of the b12 in your body as a fuel cell, you have 20 cells, as you empty them a balanced diet and normal body functions should refill them. if you are not eating a balanced diet they wont fill as fast or as all. Getting tested is best, then maybe doing a two week ED injection till you are topped up. extra b12 goes to waste after the cells are refueled. 

I had a sense of well being, less anxiety and more energy and a bigger appetite on injectable b12 in a short period of use , apposed to running high dosages of oral b12 and b complex vitamins for years and years.

----------


## gbrice75

> Should cover the topics of actually adding more animal fat to lean mass diets for increased calories and the simple fact that animals fats help us lose fat. plus realy good energy source if running low carbs. People back away from fats far to often thinking they are so bad.


Already covered!  :Wink: 




> _Note on fats: Generally, I find it unnecessary to add fats to my diet, as I get enough from my protein sources + some supplemental fish oil (which is a great idea for many reasons... but I digress). However you may have higher caloric requirements than me, and will need to add a small amount of fats to some meals, particularly low/no carb meals._

----------


## gbrice75

> I had a sense of well being, less anxiety and more energy and a bigger appetite on injectable b12 in a short period of use , apposed to running high dosages of oral b12 and b complex vitamins for years and years.


^^ substantial enough to justify the cost of ongoing injections?

----------


## Jon T

Hello GB. As a newbie to the dieting thing, this post is AMAZING and really helps me to put some focus on my goal. Myself, (as most people) are not looking to pack on too much bulk, but some lean muscle mass. I am currently 5'10"/193/19%/39yrs, and my first goal is getting down to the 15% bf range. Right now I am doing am cardio (fasting) for 30-45min and then my weight training in the evening. My caloric intake is approx 2000cal/day consisting of 290g protein, 136g carbs, and 33g fat over 5-6 meals/day. From my research, this amount of carbs seems to be putting me into calorie deficit. I just kept my protein intake the same while reducing carbs/fat. I just don't know if this type of diet and cardio training is effecting my chances of gaining lean muscle mass. Do you see anything wrong with what I am doing? Any help for this newbie would be greatly appreciated!

----------


## gbrice75

> Hello GB. As a newbie to the dieting thing, this post is AMAZING and really helps me to put some focus on my goal.


Cheers!  :Welcome: 




> Myself, (as most people) are not looking to pack on too much bulk, but some lean muscle mass. I am currently 5'10"/193/19%/39yrs, and my *first goal is getting down to the 15% bf range*. Right now I am doing am cardio (fasting) for 30-45min and then my weight training in the evening. My caloric intake is approx 2000cal/day consisting of 290g protein, 136g carbs, and 33g fat over 5-6 meals/day. From my research, this amount of carbs seems to be putting me into calorie deficit. I just kept my protein intake the same while reducing carbs/fat. I just don't know if this type of diet and cardio training is effecting my chances of gaining lean muscle mass. Do you see anything wrong with what I am doing? Any help for this newbie would be greatly appreciated!


Re: the bold above - you already have an immediate goal in mind which is great, because that's what I always suggest to people. With that said, i'm surprised we're having this conversation over my bulking sticky rather than my cutting sticky. Point being - we all want to add lean mass and reduce bodyfat. We're all here for the same thing. You've already decided that losing bodyfat is your immediate goal (and I agree with you), so I'd suggest you continue focusing on that goal and don't worry so much yet about adding muscle, just concentrate on maintaining whatever you have while losing the extra fat. Once you're happy with your bodyfat level, you can switch gears and focus more on adding lean mass, which consequentially you'll be able to assess more easily with a lower bodyfat.  :Smilie:  

If you haven't already read the cutting sticky, you might find it useful: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...g#.UTeodx2G2So

Re: your macros - you don't need nearly 300g of protein. 250g would be plenty, and 230g would be about ideal. You should bump your fats up to about 45g or so IMO. Reducing protein and bumping fats as suggested will only change your overall caloric intake slightly.

----------


## Jon T

> Cheers! 
> 
> 
> 
> Re: the bold above - you already have an immediate goal in mind which is great, because that's what I always suggest to people. With that said, i'm surprised we're having this conversation over my bulking sticky rather than my cutting sticky. Point being - we all want to add lean mass and reduce bodyfat. We're all here for the same thing. You've already decided that losing bodyfat is your immediate goal (and I agree with you), so I'd suggest you continue focusing on that goal and don't worry so much yet about adding muscle, just concentrate on maintaining whatever you have while losing the extra fat. Once you're happy with your bodyfat level, you can switch gears and focus more on adding lean mass, which consequentially you'll be able to assess more easily with a lower bodyfat.  
> 
> If you haven't already read the cutting sticky, you might find it useful: 
> 
> Re: your macros - you don't need nearly 300g of protein. 250g would be plenty, and 230g would be about ideal. You should bump your fats up to about 45g or so IMO. Reducing protein and bumping fats as suggested will only change your overall caloric intake slightly.



Awesome! Thanks GB. You are right, the cutting thread is really what I needed. Very much helpful. And based on what you mentioned about my macros, I am adjusting my diet to 240g protein, 160g carbs and 45g fat per day. As a newbie, I was concerned with a higher fat intake, but I will take your word that it is beneficial for me. 

I do have a couple of questions I'm hoping you can help with.

1. The ideal time to eat certain foods: I know that you touch on it in the cutting thread (to have a bulk of the carb intake in meal 1, pre & post workout), but my workout is a bit different. I am doing a split session for the next couple of months. In the morning (8:30am) I do 30-45min of cardio (on empty stomach) then go back to the gym in the early evening (6pm) for my weight training. So technically I have two workout sessions. With that said, what do you think would be the best way to break down the meals? Let me know your thoughts on this.
2. Since I started this diet and workout regimen, I find myself hungry ALL THE TIME! Even an hour after my last meal. Again, in your cutting thread you mention spacing meals out apprx 3hrs apart. Does the hunger come with the territory and there is a reason to wait 3hrs? Or should I be eating when I feel hungry, basically feeding the fire?
3. Myth or Truth: That your body cannot process more than 40g of protein per meal, so anything above that is being wasted? Was told this by someone at my gym but wanted to ask you.

I really appreciate your help! You have taught me a ton of knowledge to accomplish my goals!


JT

----------


## cj111

Being hungry sometimes comes as a part of dieting...sucks, but its the nature of the beast.
Start pounding water when you find yourself hungry, I forgot about being hungry when I'm always running to the bathroom

----------


## gbrice75

> Awesome! Thanks GB. You are right, the cutting thread is really what I needed. Very much helpful. And based on what you mentioned about my macros, I am adjusting my diet to 240g protein, 160g carbs and 45g fat per day. As a newbie, I was concerned with a higher fat intake, but I will take your word that it is beneficial for me.


Good deal! Don't worry about 45g of fat; that would hardly be considered high. 15-20% of total calories coming from fat is what I typically recommend anyway, and you're right there. 




> I do have a couple of questions I'm hoping you can help with.
> 
> 1. The ideal time to eat certain foods: I know that you touch on it in the cutting thread (to have a bulk of the carb intake in meal 1, pre & post workout), but my workout is a bit different. I am doing a split session for the next couple of months. In the morning (8:30am) I do 30-45min of cardio (on empty stomach) then go back to the gym in the early evening (6pm) for my weight training. So technically I have two workout sessions. With that said, what do you think would be the best way to break down the meals? Let me know your thoughts on this.


Personally, I'd have carbs in meal 1 (following your am cardio session), meal 2, and preworkout. I'd probably forego PWO carbs in your case. If you were focusing on adding mass, that'd be a different story, but you're not; you want to optimize burning body fat. I'd suggest: 40g in both meals 1 and 2, and 80g preworkout. By having half your daily carb intake preworkout, you ensure that a) your workout will be fueled, and b) you're countering any potential downside to foregoing PWO carbs as you're not going to burn through 80g of carbs in a single workout session. Again, this is just my suggestion. Others may disagree. 




> 2. Since I started this diet and workout regimen, I find myself hungry ALL THE TIME! Even an hour after my last meal. Again, in your cutting thread you mention spacing meals out apprx 3hrs apart. Does the hunger come with the territory and there is a reason to wait 3hrs?


This is a highly debatable topic, and there's no 'right' answer. I suggest several small meals per day for dieting newbs because it helps them establish a regimented eating pattern, and also because it regulates the amount of food a person can eat, thereby avoiding overeating. I do NOT recommend this to 'speed up metabolism' or 'stoke the metabolic flame' as it has been proven beyond a doubt that meal frequency has no bearing whatsoever on metabolism. 

Having said that, if fewer, larger meals works better for you, then go for it. Just adjust your macros accordingly. Currently, i'm only eating 4 meals/day plus my PWO shake. 




> Or should I be eating when I feel hungry, basically feeding the fire?


Pretty much addressed already. When I cut, I'm hungry all the time too. That's a good thing. You should be hungry. Not near death mind you; but if you were full all the time you'd likely be eating too much. Fewer larger meals will alleviate this somewhat. It will also force you to make better food choices, e.g. a steak instead of a protein shake for instance. Both might have 50g of protein, but one will leave you hungry 30 mins later, the other will likely keep you satiated for several hours. 




> 3. Myth or Truth: That your body cannot process more than 40g of protein per meal


Not necessarily a 'myth', but rather, a blanket statement that doesn't apply to everybody. I don't like absolutes. We're individuals, and as such, we all have different needs, efficiency at processing nutrients, etc. The idea that a 130lb female and a 250lb male both can only process 40g of protein is asinine. There IS a maximum per person, but again, it's individualistic. Read on...




> so anything above that is being wasted? Was told this by someone at my gym but wanted to ask you.


That person is an idiot. He probably read it on bodybuilding dot com and parrots it everywhere like he's a nutrition guru. 

Nothing is 'wasted'. Larger meals will simply take longer to digest. If this weren't true, Intermittent Fasting diets (some of which have you eating all your daily macros/calories in a single meal) would have come and gone overnight. It's not as if you eat a meal and there is this huge amino dump into the blood stream. If 40g/hour is YOUR maximum, and that's how it worked, then I could see some nutrients being 'wasted'. However, it doesn't work that way. It's more like a 'trickle effect'. Think of how an IV works. Amino's are 'pooled' and used as needed. 




> I really appreciate your help! You have taught me a ton of knowledge to accomplish my goals!
> 
> 
> JT


Awesome bro, great questions and glad to help!!

----------


## Toki

this is fantastic , great Info

----------


## Jon T

Man GB! I feel like I should pay you for all of this info! You really have helped me tremendously. I hope you don't mind, but I have a few more questions and I PROMISE I will not bother you again! Haha

-I am TERRIBLE with math. I think I did it correctly, but would you mind helping me out to calculate my TDEE? 39yrs/5'10"/193lbs are my stats. Based on (moderate exercise or sports 3 to 5 times per week) I calculate it to be 2932 calories.

-Based on this TDEE (assuming it is correct), how much of a deficit would be sufficient? I have been doing 2,000cal per day. Is that too much?

-Is it possible to do too much cardio while in cutting phase? I have been putting in 30-60min per day not including my weight training.

-I have been taking the following supplements:

BCAA - There is no dosage on the bottle, it just says to take 3 caps twice or more each day. It's called Super Amino 6000 by Dymatize
Flax Seed Oil (1000mg/cap)
Glutamine (1000mg/cap) 
Multi Vitamin

I never trust the dosages on the bottles. I always feel like they make you take more than necessary so you have to buy it quicker! What do you recommend as a dose and at what times of the day? If you think I should add any other supplements I'm all ears!

----------


## lovbyts

> Thanks buddy. Admin will be stickying this soon, so feel free to point people to it when you see them asking about adding mass.


Not soon enough...
Great read, to bad I cant get my brain to wrap around the diet stuff very well, I get boarded to easy. Maybe if you could add an Asian girl picture or reference every couple of sentences it would keep me on track?

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Not soon enough...
> Great read, to bad I cant get my brain to wrap around the diet stuff very well, I get boarded to easy. Maybe if you could add an Asian girl picture or reference every couple of sentences it would keep me on track?


First time out of the lounge?? HAW pics only allowed if member is AW and working towards hotness. Lol.

----------


## lovbyts

> First time out of the lounge?? HAW pics only allowed if member is AW and working towards hotness. Lol.


LOL no I try to spread it around. I post in the Q&A, HRT, laboratory section, injury (as you well know) and a few other sections as well as reading if I dont post but NO, I dont get in here very often or as often as I should.

What pictures would you be referring to?  :Shrug:

----------


## gbrice75

> this is fantastic , great Info


Np!  :Wink: 




> Man GB! I feel like I should pay you for all of this info! You really have helped me tremendously. I hope you don't mind, but I have a few more questions and I PROMISE I will not bother you again! Haha


I'll send you my paypal account info, BAHAHA!!! Nah man, I enjoy doing this because it's something i'm passionate about. Ask away, it's not a bother. 




> -I am TERRIBLE with math. I think I did it correctly, but would you mind helping me out to calculate my TDEE? 39yrs/5'10"/193lbs are my stats. Based on (moderate exercise or sports 3 to 5 times per week) I calculate it to be 2932 calories.


Sorry - but what are your stats again? I'm too lazy to go back and find them, lol. I will say though that I'm personally not a fan of the TDEE calculators (yes I know my sticky contains a link to them)... they always tend to come out on the high side in my experience. The problem is with the activity multiplier... it's too subjective. What you consider 'moderately active' might be a drastic difference from what I consider it to be. 

I've been using a much more simple formula for years, and as non-scientific and crude as it may seem, tends to come out pretty damn close most of the time. Like anything else, it requires monitoring and adjustment. 

LBM x 1= TDEE. So let's say you're 190lbs at 15% bodyfat. To find your lean mass: (190 x .15 = 28.5). So in this example you're carrying 28.5lbs of fat, and 161.5lbs of lean mass (190 - 28.5 = LBM). Now that we know lean mass, we can use the calculation above to find TDEE: (161.5 x 15 = 2422.5). So we're looking at a TDEE somewhere in the neighborhood of 2400.

Try using this applying your own stats and let me know what you come up with. 




> -Based on this TDEE (assuming it is correct), how much of a deficit would be sufficient? I have been doing 2,000cal per day. Is that too much?


I'll have to wait until I see your numbers, but generally speaking, around 500 calories behind TDEE is a good starting point for a deficit. You can achieve this via cardio, calorie restriction, or a combo of both. I'm personally a fan of more cardio and less caloric restriction. 




> -Is it possible to do too much cardio while in cutting phase? I have been putting in 30-60min per day not including my weight training.


That depends on what you consider "too much". There's definitely a point where one could over do it, but I think most people would break down mentally FAR sooner than physically... i.e. most people don't look forward to cardio and the amounts you'd have to do in order to do "too much" would be ridiculous. To put it in perspective, here's my ideal cardio regimen for a cut, time permitting:

AM fasted: 45-60 mins moderate intensity, steady state

PM PWO (fed): 20 mins HIIT followed by 25 mins moderate intensity steady state

At least 5x weekly, 6 if possible. Take the 7th day off completely (no cardio, no weight training) for recovery. That's a good bit of cardio, but with a solid diet and training will get anybody ripped fast!




> -I have been taking the following supplements:
> 
> BCAA - There is no dosage on the bottle, it just says to take 3 caps twice or more each day. It's called Super Amino 6000 by Dymatize
> Flax Seed Oil (1000mg/cap)
> Glutamine (1000mg/cap) 
> Multi Vitamin
> 
> I never trust the dosages on the bottles. I always feel like they make you take more than necessary so you have to buy it quicker! What do you recommend as a dose and at what times of the day? If you think I should add any other supplements I'm all ears!


I wouldn't bother with BCAA's at all unless you're doing fasted cardio (take 10g BCAA's 30 mins prior) or going extended periods of time (several hours, not 2 or 3) without food. Other than that, you should be getting plenty of amino's from the foods you eat. 

I'd ditch the flax for a quality fish oil. Flax doesn't have the greatest fat profile IMO, there are far better options. Look for a fish oil with the highest concentration of Omega 3 fatty acids. Most people get enough Omega 6-9 from foods, but not Omega 3 unless you're eating lots of fatty fish (salmon, mackerel, sardines, bluefish, etc). 

I don't bother with Glutamine but I don't think it's going to hurt. 

I also supplement with B complex, C (pre and post workout), D3, Chromium Polynicotinate, and several digestive enzymes. I don't think any of these are 'necessary' mind you, it's just what I like to use. 

What kind of multi are you using? If it's a Centrum or 'One a day', i'd ditch it in favor of something more geared towards what we do here. I like Animal Pak personally. 




> Not soon enough...
> Great read, to bad I cant get my brain to wrap around the diet stuff very well, I get boarded to easy. Maybe if you could add an Asian girl picture or reference every couple of sentences it would keep me on track?


lol, nice to see you in these parts stranger! Hmm... so you think adding a few Asian girl pics will draw some attention to this section? Maybe we should just rename it The Lounge.  :Wink: 

So, can we expect to see you around here more often from here on out!?

----------


## --->>405<<---

yo GB wat up!  :Smilie:

----------


## Jon T

Great info as always. No need for Paypal, I see you are a fellow NJ resident! I'll drop it in the mail for you! Haha

Sorry, I don't know how to post with quotes like you did...

YOUR POST
Sorry - but what are your stats again? I'm too lazy to go back and find them, lol. I will say though that I'm personally not a fan of the TDEE calculators (yes I know my sticky contains a link to them)... they always tend to come out on the high side in my experience. The problem is with the activity multiplier... it's too subjective. What you consider 'moderately active' might be a drastic difference from what I consider it to be. 

I've been using a much more simple formula for years, and as non-scientific and crude as it may seem, tends to come out pretty damn close most of the time. Like anything else, it requires monitoring and adjustment. 

LBM x 1= TDEE. So let's say you're 190lbs at 15% bodyfat. To find your lean mass: (190 x .15 = 28.5). So in this example you're carrying 28.5lbs of fat, and 161.5lbs of lean mass (190 - 28.5 = LBM). Now that we know lean mass, we can use the calculation above to find TDEE: (161.5 x 15 = 2422.5). So we're looking at a TDEE somewhere in the neighborhood of 2400.

Try using this applying your own stats and let me know what you come up with. 

I'll have to wait until I see your numbers, but generally speaking, around 500 calories behind TDEE is a good starting point for a deficit. You can achieve this via cardio, calorie restriction, or a combo of both. I'm personally a fan of more cardio and less caloric restriction. 

MY RESPONSE
My stats are 39yrs/5'10"/193lbs are my stats. Based on (moderate exercise or sports 3 to 5 times per week) I calculate it to be 2932 calories. IS that right?

YOUR POST
What kind of multi are you using? If it's a Centrum or 'One a day', i'd ditch it in favor of something more geared towards what we do here. I like Animal Pak personally. 

MY RESPONSE
I am using the GNC MegaMan Sport Multi Vitamin

----------


## gbrice75

> yo GB wat up!


What's crackin' buddy!?




> Great info as always. No need for Paypal, I see you are a fellow NJ resident! I'll drop it in the mail for you! Haha


Nice bro!! Always glad to have another Jersey guy around... where in Jersey, if you don't mind my asking?




> Sorry, I don't know how to post with quotes like you did...
> 
> YOUR POST
> Sorry - but what are your stats again? I'm too lazy to go back and find them, lol. I will say though that I'm personally not a fan of the TDEE calculators (yes I know my sticky contains a link to them)... they always tend to come out on the high side in my experience. The problem is with the activity multiplier... it's too subjective. What you consider 'moderately active' might be a drastic difference from what I consider it to be. 
> 
> I've been using a much more simple formula for years, and as non-scientific and crude as it may seem, tends to come out pretty damn close most of the time. Like anything else, it requires monitoring and adjustment. 
> 
> LBM x 1= TDEE. So let's say you're 190lbs at 15% bodyfat. To find your lean mass: (190 x .15 = 28.5). So in this example you're carrying 28.5lbs of fat, and 161.5lbs of lean mass (190 - 28.5 = LBM). Now that we know lean mass, we can use the calculation above to find TDEE: (161.5 x 15 = 2422.5). So we're looking at a TDEE somewhere in the neighborhood of 2400.
> 
> ...


Here's the problem - without knowing your currently BF%, it's impossible for me to calculate. Do you have any idea? If not, can you post up a few pics of your current condition? You can PM them to me if you're uncomfortable posting here. 

Chances are 3000 calories is too much, but we'll see.




> YOUR POST
> What kind of multi are you using? If it's a Centrum or 'One a day', i'd ditch it in favor of something more geared towards what we do here. I like Animal Pak personally. 
> 
> MY RESPONSE
> I am using the GNC MegaMan Sport Multi Vitamin


Ok. I'm not familiar with what they pack it with, but it's better than nothing for now.

----------


## Jon T

Nice bro!! Always glad to have another Jersey guy around... where in Jersey, if you don't mind my asking? [/QUOTE]
 
I am from Jackson. You?


Here's the problem - without knowing your currently BF%, it's impossible for me to calculate. Do you have any idea? If not, can you post up a few pics of your current condition? You can PM them to me if you're uncomfortable posting here. 

Chances are 3000 calories is too much, but we'll see. [/QUOTE]


Sorry, here are my complete stats: 39yrs/193lbs/19%bf/5'10" Based on my math (which isn't very good) I come up with approx 2900cal/day.

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## gbrice75

> I am from Jackson. You?


Not too far from you... right near Red Bank.  :Wink: 




> Sorry, here are my complete stats: 39yrs/193lbs/19%bf/5'10" Based on my math (which isn't very good) I come up with approx 2900cal/day.


Ok... I'd actually put your TDEE right around 2300 calories/day. Other than your workouts, are you doing any other kind of activity, i.e. hiking, sports, etc?

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## Jon T

Not too far from you... right near Red Bank. [/QUOTE]

Nice! I worked at the Bank of America on Rt 35 as you enter Red Bank for about 3 years. Maybe we have crossed paths in the past!


Ok... I'd actually put your TDEE right around 2300 calories/day. Other than your workouts, are you doing any other kind of activity, i.e. hiking, sports, etc?[/QUOTE]

Ok, I am not sure how I was so off. I used the calculation from the "TDEE - Total Daily Energy Expenditure" thread and based the calculation on "Moderately active = BMR X 1.55". As of March 1st I have been eating approx 2000cal/day (give or take 50 in either direction) and was under the assumption that I was in approx 800-900 calorie deficit per day. Based on what you are saying, I probably need to cut it down another 200cal or so. 

My job really screws with my workout schedule. Most days I can go in the morning and get weight training and 30-40min cardio in prior to work. On slow days I can do a split session with fasting am cardio then back in the evening for weight training (and sometimes more cardio). Then there are times when I have to go in the evening. So as you can see, it's all over the place. I figure as long as I can get there and do what needs to be done, it doesn't matter when. What do you think? Is it bad that I am all over the place with my workouts?

Once I do my training I don't do much else in the way of activity during the week as I have a desk job. Sucks. But on Sat I will try to get out and do something whether it's some kind of sporting activity or just an extra cardio session. Something to get the heart rate going. Sunday's are usually rest day for me.

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## gbrice75

> Nice! I worked at the Bank of America on Rt 35 as you enter Red Bank for about 3 years. Maybe we have crossed paths in the past!


I'm like 5 mins from there!




> Ok, I am not sure how I was so off. I used the calculation from the "TDEE - Total Daily Energy Expenditure" thread and based the calculation on "Moderately active = BMR X 1.55". As of March 1st I have been eating approx 2000cal/day (give or take 50 in either direction) and was under the assumption that I was in approx 800-900 calorie deficit per day. Based on what you are saying, I probably need to cut it down another 200cal or so.


Reread my 2nd reply to you in this post. I practically did it for you already.  :Wink:  http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...68#post6438068




> My job really screws with my workout schedule. Most days I can go in the morning and get weight training and 30-40min cardio in prior to work. On slow days I can do a split session with fasting am cardio then back in the evening for weight training (and sometimes more cardio). Then there are times when I have to go in the evening. So as you can see, it's all over the place. I figure as long as I can get there and do what needs to be done, it doesn't matter when. What do you think? Is it bad that I am all over the place with my workouts?


It's not necessarily 'bad' ... it'd be nice if life allowed us to do the things we want when we want, but that's not how it works. With that said, make dieting/training fit your schedule. If you have to train in the morning one day and in the evening the next, so be it. The important thing is that you train.




> Once I do my training I don't do much else in the way of activity during the week as I have a desk job. Sucks. But on Sat I will try to get out and do something whether it's some kind of sporting activity or just an extra cardio session. Something to get the heart rate going. Sunday's are usually rest day for me.


Good to have a rest day. I'd never recommend training and/or cardio 7 days a week with the exception of late game contest prep.

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## Jon T

"Reread my 2nd reply to you in this post. I practically did it for you already."

Got it. Using "LBM x 1= TDEE"....195lbs 19% bodyfat. lean mass: (195 x .19 = 37) so 37lbs of fat, and 158lbs of lean mass (195 - 37 = 158lb LBM). 
TDEE= (158 x 19 = 3092). Now that I have calculated this, and if it is accurate, I feel like a FAT BASTARD!!! Haha

When I used the "TDEE - Total Daily Energy Expenditure" thread it came out to approx 2800-2900. So not too far off. In either case, I am assuming if I maintain 2300-2400cal/day that is a sufficient deficit combined with my training. 

With that being said, for the past two weeks I have been at 2000cal/day. With this much of a deficit am was I doing more harm than good?


As always, thanks for the help GB. The check is in the mail! Hahaa  :Smilie:

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## gbrice75

> Got it. Using "LBM x 1= TDEE"....195lbs 19% bodyfat. lean mass: (195 x .19 = 37) so 37lbs of fat, and 158lbs of lean mass (195 - 37 = 158lb LBM). 
> TDEE= (158 x 19 = 3092). Now that I have calculated this, and if it is accurate, I feel like a FAT BASTARD!!! Haha


I already calculated it for you... but what you have above is wrong. Also, I see I screwed up with a typo... it's LBM x *15* = TDEE. So let's redo this now:

195lbs, 19% bodyfat. 195 x .19 = 37. 195 - 37 = 158. Based on your stats, you're carrying 158lbs LBM ad 37lbs of fat. Now we can use 'my' TDEE formula to see what yours is:

158 x 15 = 2370.

Your TDEE is roughly 2370... that's a far cry from 3000. Based on this number, I think 2000 calories is a perfect starting point for you to cut at. You will need to monitor your progress and make adjustments to calories as needed, i.e. if you're consistently losing more than 1.5-2lbs/week, calories need to be bumped. If you're not losing at all, they need to be lowered and/or more cardio thrown in the mix.[/QUOTE]

----------


## Jon T

> I already calculated it for you... but what you have above is wrong. Also, I see I screwed up with a typo... it's LBM x *15* = TDEE. So let's redo this now:
> 
> 195lbs, 19% bodyfat. 195 x .19 = 37. 195 - 37 = 158. Based on your stats, you're carrying 158lbs LBM ad 37lbs of fat. Now we can use 'my' TDEE formula to see what yours is:
> 
> 158 x 15 = 2370.
> 
> Your TDEE is roughly 2370... that's a far cry from 3000. Based on this number, I think 2000 calories is a perfect starting point for you to cut at. You will need to monitor your progress and make adjustments to calories as needed, i.e. if you're consistently losing more than 1.5-2lbs/week, calories need to be bumped. If you're not losing at all, they need to be lowered and/or more cardio thrown in the mix.


[/QUOTE]


Thanks GB. I got it now. This makes more sense. For the past few weeks I have been at 2000cal/day. So a deficit of approx 350cal/day. I jumped on the scale for the first time in 2 weeks and I went UP in weight 2lbs. Doesn't make any sense since I am in deficit. I suppose I need to drop the calories a bit and bump up the cardio.

I thought of something today that I know you can answer for me. As I mentioned in a previous post. I eat every three hours and find myself hungry after about an hour since my last meal. So by the time I reach my next meal I am pretty much starving. Is this counter productive, hense the reason I may have gained weight? From what I have researched, on one hand, if my body is starving it should be taking the necessary energy from fat in my body. But on the other hand, if my body is starving, when it does get food is it storing it as fat rather than burning it for energy? Let me know your thoughts on this.

Btw...awesome new picture bro! You look great!! I hope to get there one day!!

----------


## HCTP

First of all awesome post, I've searched far and wide online and have found nothing but confusion and confliction. This makes most sense to me. Using your formula, I would need about 2330 calories a day, how do I figure out how many grams of protein, carbs, and fat that is? Also, what is your stance on milk?

----------


## RipOwens

Got a lot from this post GB, thank you brother!

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## gbrice75

> Thanks GB. I got it now. This makes more sense. For the past few weeks I have been at 2000cal/day. So a deficit of approx 350cal/day. I jumped on the scale for the first time in 2 weeks and I went UP in weight 2lbs. Doesn't make any sense since I am in deficit. I suppose I need to drop the calories a bit and bump up the cardio.


I wouldn't change anything yet. There are a number of reasons this could happen. I'd stick with 2000 calories/day for another 2 weeks or so and see which way the trend goes. 




> I thought of something today that I know you can answer for me. As I mentioned in a previous post. I eat every three hours and find myself hungry after about an hour since my last meal. So by the time I reach my next meal I am pretty much starving. Is this counter productive, hense the reason I may have gained weight?


You felt hungry, but you certainly weren't 'starving'. What you're referring to is the body's ability to *hold on to* existing fat stores to counter true starvation. That's not what happened here, but even if it were, your body wouldn't be creating new fat stores in a caloric deficit. 




> From what I have researched, on one hand, if my body is starving it should be taking the necessary energy from fat in my body. But on the other hand, if my body is starving, when it does get food is it storing it as fat rather than burning it for energy? Let me know your thoughts on this.


First, you have to be able to distinguish between hunger and starvation. You're DEFINITELY not starving. To be honest, you're not even hungry. The feelings and cravings you're getting are more likely a result of past conditioning. i.e. you're used to eating, so your brain is telling you that you 'need' to eat. Google the hormone Ghrelin which is, in part, responsible for how you're feeling. Over time, your body will adjust and the 'conditioned' feelings of hunger should dissipate somewhat, if not all together. 




> Btw...awesome new picture bro! You look great!! I hope to get there one day!!


Thanks brother, it's a year old and I'm a lot fatter right now, but I'll get back there. You'll get there too!  :Smilie: 




> First of all awesome post, I've searched far and wide online and have found nothing but confusion and confliction.


Good stuff bro, glad it helped!  :Big Grin: 




> This makes most sense to me. Using your formula, I would need about 2330 calories a day, how do I figure out how many grams of protein, carbs, and fat that is?


That depends on a lot of things. What are your stats? Goals? Training experience?




> Also, what is your stance on milk?


I'm a milk LOVER, I could drink a gallon a day easily. However, for my recent cut I've decided to ditch it (and cut my diary intake in general down quite a bit) as it contains a relatively high amount of sugar. When I cut, I aim to keep my sugar intake around 20g/day or less. 

As a protein source it's perfectly fine. It's a complete protein so there's nothing to worry about as far as that goes. However, some people cannot handle dairy (lactose intolerance)... so if you feel gassy, bloated, etc. from drinking milk and/or dairy in general, I'd suggest foregoing it for another source. 




> Got a lot from this post GB, thank you brother!


Awesome, my pleasure!  :Smilie:

----------


## Jon T

[QUOTE=gbrice75;6444051]I wouldn't change anything yet. There are a number of reasons this could happen. I'd stick with 2000 calories/day for another 2 weeks or so and see which way the trend goes. 

You felt hungry, but you certainly weren't 'starving'. What you're referring to is the body's ability to *hold on to* existing fat stores to counter true starvation. That's not what happened here, but even if it were, your body wouldn't be creating new fat stores in a caloric deficit. 

First, you have to be able to distinguish between hunger and starvation. You're DEFINITELY not starving. To be honest, you're not even hungry. The feelings and cravings you're getting are more likely a result of past conditioning. i.e. you're used to eating, so your brain is telling you that you 'need' to eat. Google the hormone Ghrelin which is, in part, responsible for how you're feeling. Over time, your body will adjust and the 'conditioned' feelings of hunger should dissipate somewhat, if not all together. 

Thanks brother, it's a year old and I'm a lot fatter right now, but I'll get back there. You'll get there too!  :Smilie: 


MY RESPONSE: One of these days I will learn how to quote things the way you do. For now bear with me!  :Smilie: 

I learned so much in the week or so that we have been going back and forth. As you suggested, I am going to run with this and see where I am at after a few weeks. If I don't see any progress I will probably be in touch with more questions!!! Haha Thanks again bro for all your help.

----------


## HCTP

GB, I sent you an email with my stats/goals. Any help you could give would be awesome.

----------


## NotTheSame

I know this is an old thread but it has been posted in this year so i'll ask anyway,

GB, i'll start by saying great post but i'm just wondering what your thoughts are on fat intake are. Have your views on this changed with modern ideas? Everything i read now suggest a much higher fat intake then what you recommend in this post.

----------


## gbrice75

> I know this is an old thread but it has been posted in this year so i'll ask anyway


Nah, no worries. It's a Q&A thread to the sticky (as opposed to posting within the sticky itself), so it's never really 'old'.  :Wink: 




> GB, i'll start by saying great post but i'm just wondering what your thoughts are on fat intake are. Have your views on this changed with modern ideas? Everything i read now suggest a much higher fat intake then what you recommend in this post.


In my experience, the trend is continuously up and down - high fat/low carb is the right approach, then the opposite - over and over. My thoughts haven't changed in general, but I will say that it varies from person to person. Simply, some people respond better to higher fat diets, others can get away with low fat/higher carb. It also boils down to total caloric intake; for a guy eating 4000 calories, I'm not going to recommend 60g fat. 100g would be more appropriate, maybe even higher. IMO, it's all very flexible -but most important is finding what works for you as an individual.

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## HellbentSOB

I'm in your debt! Great resource.

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## ocman

Great article!!!

I just went on a 90 day cut and lost 8 pounds and 3.3% body fat. Looks like I lost about 20% of lean mass (1.35 lbs).

My question is, on a lean bulk is there a rule of thumb on the percentage of fat gained to lean mass gained?

I'm talking about eating very clean at about 400 calories over maintenance. Also, would be doing cardio as recommended.

peace

----------


## Docd187123

> Great article!!!
> 
> I just went on a 90 day cut and lost 8 pounds and 3.3% body fat. Looks like I lost about 20% of lean mass (1.35 lbs).
> 
> My question is, on a lean bulk is there a rule of thumb on the percentage of fat gained to lean mass gained?
> 
> I'm talking about eating very clean at about 400 calories over maintenance. Also, would be doing cardio as recommended.
> 
> peace


No there is no rule of thumb. The rate of fat gained for muscle gained is determined by the amount of the caloric surplus and hormonal factors such as your p-ratio (nutrient partitioning) which determines how much of a calorie goes into building muscle and how much into storing fat. 

Clean or dirty doesn't matter since you'd be in a 400cal surplus regardless of the foods you ate. Cardio simply burns calories so by doing some you must take that into account when calculating your TDEE and surplus.

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## ocman

> Cardio simply burns calories so by doing some you must take that into account when calculating your TDEE and surplus.


What is the best way to accomplish this?

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## aquarius66794

Gbrice thankyou for taking the time to write this up. Very informative and easy to understand. Much appreciated!

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## KingB

Thanks alot for this post, made me realize i have waaay to much protein in my diet (i love that meat/chicken etc) :P

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## GirlyGymRat

> Thanks alot for this post, made me realize i have waaay to much protein in my diet (i love that meat/chicken etc) :P


My doctor said I need only 1.5g of protein for every kilo of weight. I too am eating too much protein.

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## Docd187123

> My doctor said I need only 1.5g of protein for every kilo of weight. I too am eating too much protein.


1.5g/kg of protein is not the same as 1.5g/lb of protein obviously lol. The recommended minimum intake is about .8g/pound and 1.5g/kilogram converts to ~0.68g/pound. I don't think you're getting too much protein at that intake GGR

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## GirlyGymRat

> 1.5g/kg of protein is not the same as 1.5g/lb of protein obviously lol. The recommended minimum intake is about .8g/pound and 1.5g/kilogram converts to ~0.68g/pound. I don't think you're getting too much protein at that intake GGR


Doc wants me to not eat unless I am hungry. I am on a med that has bonus sides- eliminates carb cravings and reduces appetite and once I do eat, it releases something that tells me I am full. These are the sides!!! Awesome drug. I am rarely hungry so he said I should not eat and let my fat redistribute naturally until I get to a very low bf%.

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## tarmyg

Ggr, 

What is the name of that medicine?

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## gbrice75

Glad to see this thread is still alive.  :Smilie:

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## GirlyGymRat

> Ggr, What is the name of that medicine?


Victoza

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## GirlyGymRat

> Glad to see this thread is still alive.


It's a well written informatics thread!! Awesome author  :Smilie:

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## RaginCajun

> Victoria


i knew she was a drug!

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## T-boner

I just spent the day shopping for food and portioned out meals based on this diet plan. I was starving but yet I barely made it through one meal. I don't know how I'm going to be able to eat another one in 3 hours let alone 6 every day. Gonna have to lower the portions and try to build up to it. I believe my diet is currently my bottle neck so I have to do this or no more gains. I don't know how you guys eat this much.

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## Jerrard

Hi all souds great apart from one thing what does 45g of protein look like on a plate and carbs it would be nice if someone could put a picture of their meals on a thread I might not want to eat what they are eating but at least Ill have an idea what my meals are supposed to look like

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## Rosco170

Great post..... thanks, very helpful

What are your thoughts on doing sprints 1 day a week while trying to add muscle?

I've heard differing opinions on the topic.

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