# FITNESS and NUTRITION FORUM > WORKOUT AND TRAINING >  High reps while on cycle?

## Althenery

high reps will on cycle test/deca , 20+ reps or higher reps for better gains? Why or why not?

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## AR's King Silabolin

Because Rich Piana says so. And i feel im not destroying it too much then. Just preparing for the growth which take place when you come home and start to eat. And the extra cycle pump makes its easier for the mucles to be flushed with good stuff from food.

Yes. High reps with strict from are underrated. My tris have never grown so fast when i started 40 reps scullcrushers on sundays before mondays chest tries and shoulders.

I def say YES..high reps when on gear

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## fxrjuiceman

> high reps will on cycle test/deca, 20+ reps or higher reps for better gains? Why or why not?


Bro high rep your smaller muscles and low rep your big muscles you don't wanna be on the bench hitting a plate 30+ times hahaa

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## Buster Brown

I have always found that working sets in the 6-8 rep range have always worked the best for me for hypertrophy. I see very little use for ultra high reps except for a warm up. A pump feels good ( no doubt) but that's about it.

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## Bodacious

> I have always found that working sets in the 6-8 rep range have always worked the best for me for hypertrophy. I see very little use for ultra high reps except for a warm up. A pump feels good ( no doubt) but that's about it.


agree with BB here 6-8 reps on your working set. Is working well for me. If you can do more than 8 I think the weight is to light.

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## kelkel

I personally respond very well to higher reps for leg work. When I say high reps it's by no means light. Not even close.

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## TheTaxMan

My last cycle i did 12-14 reps on every bodypart with a rest of 20 seconds inbetween for like an hour

You quickly find you still end up lifting to failure with a real low rest time

I gained good size from it.

try everything for a few weeks and see what you like best imo

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## Althenery

> agree with BB here 6-8 reps on your working set. Is working well for me. If you can do more than 8 I think the weight is to light.


8 reps its pretty mutch the standard for natural training, am i wrong? When u on gear things are different

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## Althenery

> I personally respond very well to higher reps for leg work. When I say high reps it's by no means light. Not even close.


When i did tren /test i grew my legs extremly fast by doing 15-20 reps, the burn was incredible! And they were my weak body part and they catch up i no time it was amazing, thats why i believe in higher reps

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## Althenery

> Because Rich Piana says so. And i feel im not destroying it too much then. Just preparing for the growth which take place when you come home and start to eat. And the extra cycle pump makes its easier for the mucles to be flushed with good stuff from food. Yes. High reps with strict from are underrated. My tris have never grown so fast when i started 40 reps scullcrushers on sundays before mondays chest tries and shoulders. I def say YES..high reps when on gear


Rich piana advice its so onset and on point thats were i got it from. Ill be doing 20-30 reps and see how i respond, ill be doing a heavy weigh day, one body part once a week just to mix it up

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## hellomycognomen

Everyone is different and I would say do what you find works best for you. Research support that a mixture of low and high rep ranges is the most optimal. Gear increases recovery rates but does not change the fundamentals. I would recommend a daily undulating peridoization routine to maximize both hypertrophy via volume, and strength via heavy loads. I usually keep my strength reps around 5 or less, and my hypertrophy reps between 8-12. I rest 3 min inbetween strength sets and 1.5min for hypertrophy sets.

-Cheers

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## Althenery

> Everyone is different and I would say do what you find works best for you. Research support that a mixture of low and high rep ranges is the most optimal. Gear increases recovery rates but does not change the fundamentals. I would recommend a daily undulating peridoization routine to maximize both hypertrophy via volume, and strength via heavy loads. I usually keep my strength reps around 5 or less, and my hypertrophy reps between 8-12. I rest 3 min inbetween strength sets and 1.5min for hypertrophy sets. -Cheers


Yea you right.
Ill be doing 1 strength day once a week, 1 body part per week

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## Trevis

i prefer combining low reps and high reps.

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## Khazima

> Everyone is different and I would say do what you find works best for you. Research support that a mixture of low and high rep ranges is the most optimal. Gear increases recovery rates but does not change the fundamentals. I would recommend a daily undulating peridoization routine to maximize both hypertrophy via volume, and strength via heavy loads. I usually keep my strength reps around 5 or less, and my hypertrophy reps between 8-12. I rest 3 min inbetween strength sets and 1.5min for hypertrophy sets.
> 
> -Cheers


This, except gear changes more than recovery rates. One of the primary fundamentals changed is MPS (muscle protein synthesis) turnover and up-time. When you stimulate a muscle (naturally) MPS is raised in that muscle for a period of anywhere between 1-3 days where as you stimulate a muscle on gear and you get more like 3-6 days of spiked MPS. So as a natural lifter you're only making positive adaptations for those 1-3 days, after that all the extra volume you did is now just worthless recovery time. Where as on gear all the volume you can do you'll be making positive adaptations for a 3-6 day period. This is a primary reason why higher frequency training with lower volume (higher frequency usually works out to higher total volume anyway) is superior for naturals. 

Completely agree on DUP, 2-3 sessions per muscle group per week using varying rep ranges will produce superior gains over a single rep range, especially since getting optimal stimulation varies per muscle group and per exercise. So sticking with any one rep range is simply short-changing yourself.

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## marcus300

High reps do nothing for me, they don't build size, thickness or any kind of tissue stimulation IMHO. I do use them now and again on a pullback from my own kind of training for a couple of week to a month but my main rep range for me is 5-12 reps

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## musclestack

It really depends on what your goal is, as you never mentioned it in the original post. I, personally, would never go over 12 reps on any exercise. I like to train for both size AND strength, so I mix it up between high and low reps. On all my main lifts (bench, squat, deadlift, OHP), I like to train for strength, so I keep all my reps low, rarely going over 6 reps. I usually end my core lift with one higher rep set (~12 reps), then for all of my 'accessory' lifts, I stick to the 8-12 rep range. This seems to work well for me. Experiment, and find out what works best for you for your goals.

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## Althenery

> High reps do nothing for me, they don't build size, thickness or any kind of tissue stimulation IMHO. I do use them now and again on a pullback from my own kind of training for a couple of week to a month but my main rep range for me is 5-12 reps


I been doing10-30 reps and my sweet spot its about 12-17 reps , it gets my arms super pump

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## musclestack

> I been doing10-30 reps and my sweet spot its about 12-17 reps , it gets my arms super pump


That's great that you're getting a pump if that, in fact, is what you're looking for. But are you seeing the RESULTS you want from it?

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## Buster Brown

> I been doing10-30 reps and my sweet spot its about 12-17 reps , it gets my arms super pump


Big difference between a pump and hypertrophy.

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## marcus300

> That's great that you're getting a pump if that, in fact, is what you're looking for. But are you seeing the RESULTS you want from it?





> Big difference between a pump and hypertrophy.


^^^^^^ :Smilie:

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## zinghigh89

Why not just do both? Start with heavier weights maybe 5-10 reps a set and as you hit the home stretch maybe hit up some 20 reppers? My legs respond well to high reps but I'm also not backing off on the weight. I'll load the leg press with anywhere from 700-1000lbs and rep to 20 if I can. I think chasing a pump is good but as stated it doesn't mean you're going to grow. If I curl a pencil 300 times I might get a pump but I'm not gonna grow. The opposite works too; just because you're not engorged with blood doesn't mean you won't grow. I followed Lift Run Bang for a while and was skeptical of the high rep work but you start off with heavy weights on the big compound lifts, it's not all high rep pump shit. Same with 5/3/1 and those programs. They may not be pure size routines but the combo of heavy compounds and then volume on the lighter stuff should spark some growth. Remember nothing works if you don't.

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## NACH3

I don't get why people think they need to change their training when they cycle - what built your muscle will keep it also! Keep in mind it's always key to cycle your training - but with HIT - it's heavy intense and your recruiting the toughest muscle fibers we have(type 2b which grow 4x the size of 2a - thx to Marcus I know understand the importance of hitting your required rep range(6-12 total) in 1 working set into drops/RPs/forced reps into negs etc and actually hitting true positive failure - otherwise your wasting your time with HIT! 

Imho too many people think that pumps = gains which as stated above is horseshit! To each their own

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## MrFreshmaker

> it's heavy intense and your recruiting the toughest muscle fibers we have(type 2b which grow 4x the size of 2a - thx to Marcus I know understand the importance of hitting your required rep range(6-12 total) in 1 working set into drops/RPs/forced reps into negs etc and actually hitting true positive


Can you please explain and elaborate this for me Nach? Language barriers for me lol

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## NACH3

> Can you please explain and elaborate this for me Nach? Language barriers for me lol


With HIT - we are trying to recruit the toughest muscle fibers possible(type 2b) type 2a/b are both fast twitch muscle fibers yet recruiting type 2b is only possible by going to true positive failure and beyond... Three phases of each lift - positive - static - negative... Once true positive failure is reached, notice our negative(eccentric part of lift is stronger than our positive & static phases of a lift) so to dig deeper into those type2b muscle fibers if you've got a spotter to lift the weight... You then lower the lift as slow as possible for as long as possible until the negative part of the lift is at/and beyond failure during your working set and drops etc - this is from Marcus and his posts(I just don't speak as well LOL)! Also, type 2b fibers can grow 4x the size of type 2a fibers - hence the growth of more muscle tissue! Make more sense?!

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## novastepp

Plus, if you are one of those guys with a genetic disposition of holding a greater number of those type 2 muscle fibers, and you never train them, you're missing out on an enormous amount of possible growth!

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## MrFreshmaker

> With HIT - we are trying to recruit the toughest muscle fibers possible(type 2b) type 2a/b are both fast twitch muscle fibers yet recruiting type 2b is only possible by going to true positive failure and beyond... Three phases of each lift - positive - static - negative... Once true positive failure is reached, notice our negative(eccentric part of lift is stronger than our positive & static phases of a lift) so to dig deeper into those type2b muscle fibers if you've got a spotter to lift the weight... You then lower the lift as slow as possible for as long as possible until the negative part of the lift is at/and beyond failure during your working set and drops etc - this is from Marcus and his posts(I just don't speak as well LOL)! Also, type 2b fibers can grow 4x the size of type 2a fibers - hence the growth of more muscle tissue! Make more sense?!


Thanks a lot for your time bro.In fact this is the first time i read about these types of muscle fibers(i read in dungeon 2/a,2/b and stuff,but had no clue what you were talking about lol).I guess it's time now for more google study of these fibers!!

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## MrFreshmaker

> Plus, if you are one of those guys with a genetic disposition of holding a greater number of those type 2 muscle fibers, and you never train them, you're missing out on an enormous amount of possible growth!


Thanks Nova.I just started doing HIT style training,and for the first i am doing the negatives too.Btw,how do we know if we have more type 2 fibers?Or we can't know that?!

P.S.sorry to the OP for hijacking his thread

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## hellomycognomen

Most people at the gym fail because their ego gets the best of them. They want a fast solution with the least amount of work. They want to lift heavy at the expense of proper form. Building muscle takes time, effort, and dedication. 

As the saying goes: 
Methods are many, principles are few. Methods always change, Principles never do.

-Cheers

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## Althenery

> That's great that you're getting a pump if that, in fact, is what you're looking for. But are you seeing the RESULTS you want from it?


Im on day 9 and im about 10 pounds havier biger arms and same bodyfat

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## marcus300

> Im on day 9 and im about 10 pounds havier biger arms and same bodyfat


That wont be muscle by the way

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## marcus300

> Most people at the gym fail because their ego gets the best of them. They want a fast solution with the least amount of work. They want to lift heavy at the expense of proper form. Building muscle takes time, effort, and dedication. 
> 
> As the saying goes: 
> Methods are many, principles are few. Methods always change, Principles never do.
> 
> -Cheers


Well said and agree  :Smilie:

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## marcus300

> Thanks a lot for your time bro.In fact this is the first time i read about these types of muscle fibers(i read in dungeon 2/a,2/b and stuff,but had no clue what you were talking about lol).I guess it's time now for more google study of these fibers!!


check out the dungeon its all explained in there mate

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## CaptainGoose

I've been training 3x8 sets and reps for one week then if i can get all my reps/sets in, next week go 3x10 then 3x12 then up to 3x15. After 3x15 I'll up the weight by 2.5 or 5 pounds depending on the exercise. Rest time in-between sets I usually use 1.5-2mins.

While on I will probably keep the rep and set scheme the same, maybe increasing sets and reducing rest time in-between sets.

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## Althenery

Y did high reps and I made gains but now I'm doing heavy weight with proper form and it's working 2x better for me!

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## crazy_rocks

I'm not saying that high reps do not have a place at all but many confuse the pump growth with actual growth. The pump causes less actual growth to occur compared to the heavier or moderately heavy rep ranges. We are humans therefore we have human anatomy and physiology and certain things causes certain changes. In terms of percentage of 1RM this it makes more sense because we vary in our ratios of certain muscle fibers. A lot of bodybuilders will say they like to lift with higher reps because they don't want to progress before the tendons and ligaments can adapt to the weight. This makes sense but nowhere do they defend that it is better aside from that issue. look at the bodybuilders who powerbuild, enough said. less fluff and they more often have that solid appearance. Drop the bro science and lift the weight.

Throw in some lighter weight as supplementary, heavy weight as fundamental.

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## Ashop

> I personally respond very well to higher reps for leg work. When I say high reps it's by no means light. Not even close.


Same for me. I often do reps of 20+ for all my leg exercises,,,and as you mentioned,,,by no means light weight.

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## Black Stallion

> I'm not saying that high reps do not have a place at all but many confuse the pump growth with actual growth. The pump causes less actual growth to occur compared to the heavier or moderately heavy rep ranges. We are humans therefore we have human anatomy and physiology and certain things causes certain changes. In terms of percentage of 1RM this it makes more sense because we vary in our ratios of certain muscle fibers. A lot of bodybuilders will say they like to lift with higher reps because they don't want to progress before the tendons and ligaments can adapt to the weight. This makes sense but nowhere do they defend that it is better aside from that issue. look at the bodybuilders who powerbuild, enough said. less fluff and they more often have that solid appearance. Drop the bro science and lift the weight.
> 
> Throw in some lighter weight as supplementary, heavy weight as fundamental.


The part about not pushing to heavy too fast to help prevent injury caused by slower developing tendons/ligaments is so true. More novice lifters should utilize this concept and avoid blowing out a shoulder or elbow..

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## MSphysique

I would personally stick to heavy weights, I don't believe all this light weight/higher rep stuff

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## Althenery

> I would personally stick to heavy weights, I don't believe all this light weight/higher rep stuff


I try both and they both work just fine , I'll be sticking to heavy weigh to try and get stronger

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## username101

You need a combination of everything mate. High reps, moderate reps, low reps. Mix it up. If you have the strength go heavy, if you're sore from your last workout go moderate or high. Listen to your body, only your body can tell you what it prefers. Experiment and see what works best for you. If you get results from high reps, do high reps. If you get results from low reps heavy weight, do low reps heavy weight.

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