# STEROIDS FORUM > HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY- Low T, Anti-Aging >  Beginner, needing advice

## Jupiter2

Heya folks.

Just found your forums and I'm looking for some advice. I'm a 46 year old male who has been exhibiting the classic symptoms of low T. I recently contacted an anti-aging clinic down south which got the ball rolling for me. 

The lab work showed that my cholesterol was a bit high. My Serum Testosterone was at 275 (Scale 280-800) and my Free Testosterone at 6.3. (Scale 6.8-21.5). My Serum FSH (whatever that is) was at 1.4 (Scale 1.5-12.4). LH was at 3.1 and Estradiol at 18.3.

The clinic is suggesting the following for treatment (10 week program):

1 Testosterone Cypionate 210mg/ml injection 
2 HCG 5,000 C/P 
20 Anastrozole 1mg

Not knowing anything about the subject my question is: Does this appear to be a competent course of treatment given my numbers and their stated intention of returning me to the upper range of testosterone in my system?

Lack of libido, lethargy, poor sleep and mild depression are my main problems. I am definitely not healing as quickly from injuries as I used to, and after approx. 10 years of faithfully working out I've have nothing to show for it other than the bulge that has started to develope recently in my abdomen. Will the therapy help me with these problems?

Thanks in advance for anything, anyone has to offer.

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## tubs

Why a 10 week program?
and is that 210mg of test a week? if so that is a lot to start with but will probably help with all of the thing you have listed.

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## Vettester

> Heya folks.
> 
> Just found your forums and I'm looking for some advice. I'm a 46 year old male who has been exhibiting the classic symptoms of low T. I recently contacted an anti-aging clinic down south which got the ball rolling for me. 
> 
> The lab work showed that my cholesterol was a bit high. My Serum Testosterone was at 275 (Scale 280-800) and my Free Testosterone at 6.3. (Scale 6.8-21.5). My Serum FSH (whatever that is) was at 1.4 (Scale 1.5-12.4). LH was at 3.1 and Estradiol at 18.3.
> 
> The clinic is suggesting the following for treatment (10 week program):
> 
> 1 Testosterone Cypionate 210mg/ml injection 
> ...


Jupiter, welcome to the site.

Your E2 (estradiol) is a little low (IMO), you don't want to be taking 1mg tablets of Arimidex /Anastrozole. The "T" and HCG will make the rise, but I'd be careful with the amount you take. If you can break it up into 0.5, you might only need 1 per week. If it starts creeping up, maybe 2 per week @ 0.5.

They should run lab work after about 6 weeks to see where you're at. Is this the case, or are they waiting it out for 10 weeks? After 6 weeks, you could see where your E2 results are at and what adjustments need made.

On the HCG, how much are you supposed to take each week? 5,000iu is probably the size of the bottle, but mix it up you might be taking 250iu or 500iu ... Did they go over this with you?

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## Jupiter2

Tubs, 

The price they quoted me was for supplies that would last for a period of 10 weeks. The rep stated that I would have my bloodwork checked again around that time and the meds would be adjusted if needed. The following is the listing of supplies in its entirety:

1 Testosterone Cypionate 210mg/ml injection
1 FedEx Shipping
2 HCG 5,000 C/P
20 Anastrozole 1mg
2 30 X 5/16 X 1CC - 10 pk
20 23g 1.5 w/3cc syringe
12 21g Needle only

Because I have no knowledge on the subject, my assumption, based on the above list is that they are sending only 1 vial of Test and that the weekly injected dosage would be 1/10 of the amount stated on the vial but I cannot be sure. This is primarily the reason I am seeking advice on the forum. The other is the cost associated with the supplies they are suggesting.

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## Jupiter2

Vette,

Thank you for the welcome.

Not much has been stated about the individual dosages of the recommended products. The rep stated that after the supplies were received, everything would be explained over the phone. The clinic stated that I would be given a valid prescription for everything that was sent to me. I again have assumed that this means that the tablets would be in a bottle with clear instructions on consumption similar to what I would receive in a pharmacy here at home.

Again this, and the cost of the supplies for the 10 weeks is why I have come to the forum. I would like to be able to ask the proper questions before committing to this.

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## Vettester

> Vette,
> 
> Thank you for the welcome.
> 
> Not much has been stated about the individual dosages of the recommended products. The rep stated that after the supplies were received, everything would be explained over the phone. The clinic stated that I would be given a valid prescription for everything that was sent to me. I again have assumed that this means that the tablets would be in a bottle with clear instructions on consumption similar to what I would receive in a pharmacy here at home.
> 
> Again this, and the cost of the supplies for the 10 weeks is why I have come to the forum. I would like to be able to ask the proper questions before committing to this.


Sorry that this clinic has failed you. Before they took your money they should have been going down the list with you and bringing you up to speed with how it all works.

Anyways, when you get the prescriptions:
1) Complete your phone session with the Rep/Doc, make sure YOU TAKE NOTES, and make sure they clarify everything with you from mixing the HCG properly down to drawing, aspirating and injecting your medications properly.

2) Please report it back to us and let us chime in. You've got a squad of vets willing to review and help.

Also, clarify the Anastrozole dosage with them. If you're getting 20 pills, then that indicates they're going to have you take 2mg per week. Let us know.

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## Jupiter2

Not sure that they have failed me as I've yet to send them any money besides the amount that was needed for the bloodwork. Was hoping to begin with them this week but I may put it off until next week so I can learn a bit more, and ask a few more questions. All of this is a wee bit overwhelming.

I'll be calling the clinic tomorrow and will be sure to report back promptly. Thx again for everyone's help. I appreciate it.

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## Vettester

OK, thought by the description of stuff that you already ordered.

Anyways, maybe they'll go over it thoroughly with you yet.

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## zaggahamma

> Why a 10 week program?
> and is that 210mg of test a week? if so that is a lot to start with but will probably help with all of the thing you have listed.


thats how often they would like to get paid i'm sure

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## Jupiter2

Ok gang, just got off the phone with the counselor from the clinic. These are the dosages that were prescribed:

Test: 1 ml per week
HCG : 500 units, twice per week
Anastrozole: 1mg, twice per week

Hope this helps you guys. I've decided to hold off another week on beginning the therapy as I have an appt. with my primary on the 27th. I intend on bringing my lab results with me and discussing the clinic's prescription with her to get her opinion on things. I'm sort of hoping that she agrees with their recommendations (not holding my breath) and offers to write a like prescription on her own. Perhaps that will provide me with a higher chance of my insurance company agreeing to pick up the costs associated with the treatment.

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## Vettester

Your E2 is 18 ... IMO, I would do 1/2 the Anastrozole (0.5 x 2/wk).

Also, if it were me, I'd go with 250iu x 2/wk on the HCG for the first 6 weeks, run BW, then see where I'm at with everything. Could tweak it then if things need to go up a little. Just my .02

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## Jupiter2

Don't know if Anastrozole tablets are scored. I know that some meds cannot be "cut" because they are designed to be time released. Is this med safe to be cut?

Your 2 cents btw is priceless since I've no experience whatsoever with any of this stuff. I obviously don't want to do more harm than good with the treatment, especially if this is to be a long term thing. Now I have an experienced person's knowledge and experience to use as a baseline in my own treatment and with my discussions with the clinic.

Thank you so much for the advice. If anything more develops I'll bring it to the forum and will definitely post once I begin the treatment to give everyone insight into my own experiences with the meds.

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## Vettester

> Don't know if Anastrozole tablets are scored. I know that some meds cannot be "cut" because they are designed to be time released. Is this med safe to be cut?
> 
> Your 2 cents btw is priceless since I've no experience whatsoever with any of this stuff. I obviously don't want to do more harm than good with the treatment, especially if this is to be a long term thing. Now I have an experienced person's knowledge and experience to use as a baseline in my own treatment and with my discussions with the clinic.
> 
> Thank you so much for the advice. If anything more develops I'll bring it to the forum and will definitely post once I begin the treatment to give everyone insight into my own experiences with the meds.


Not priceless ... Charging you $100 consulting fee!!!


JK :LOL: 

Also, let us know how the Anastrozole comes. You just don't want to drop your E2 much lower than where it's at now.

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## Epic Ed

Your current estrogen level is low, but that could rise rapidly depending on how you metabolize testosterone . Test converts to estrogen -- that's just how it works. So, the more test you put into your body, the higher your E2 levels will rise. How much they rise depends on the person. It's good to have an AI on hand, but I wouldn't take it at all right out of the gate. The two factors that will effect how much test converts to E2 are your weight and body fat composition. What are your stats? height/weight/body fat?

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## durak

The anastrozol will be caps not tabs so he won't be able to break it in half.

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## zaggahamma

> Ok gang, just got off the phone with the counselor from the clinic. These are the dosages that were prescribed:
> *
> Test: 1 ml per week*
> HCG : 500 units, twice per week
> Anastrozole: 1mg, twice per week
> 
> Hope this helps you guys. I've decided to hold off another week on beginning the therapy as I have an appt. with my primary on the 27th. I intend on bringing my lab results with me and discussing the clinic's prescription with her to get her opinion on things. I'm sort of hoping that she agrees with their recommendations (not holding my breath) and offers to write a like prescription on her own. Perhaps that will provide me with a higher chance of my insurance company agreeing to pick up the costs associated with the treatment.


not a dose thats a measurement....but would guess u have 200, 210, 250mg/ml...just thought i bust your chops a bit and welcome you

best of luck with your regimine

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## Jupiter2

Ed, my stats are:

5'8
157 lbs.

I am unsure of my body fat composition. I've always been slim and found it difficult to put on weight and/or muscle. But within the last 9 months I have been gaining size in my abdominal region and its periphery and losing the little bit of definition I had managed to build over the last 8-9 years of working out. It is not extreme but if I had to guess I would bet that I've got at least 10 pounds or so of fat on me at this point.

Btw Ed, this may not be the place for it, and I hope I don't offend you in any way, but hats off to your state and its politicians for taking the high road and choosing to deal with the illegal immigration problem in Arizona. If the rest of the states grew some balls the country would be better off for it.

JP, the test dosage that the doctor has recommeded is 210 mg/ml if that helps a bit. Don't mind getting my chops busted every now and again. Seems to hurt alot less than the busted arm I suffered a couple of years ago.

As far as the Anastrozole goes I will probably ask to have the dosage cut to .5mg twice a week instead of the 1mg twice per week that has been recommended seeing as the consensus on the forums seems to indicate that to be a good starting point. If a later panel suggests it should be raised then so be it.

Thanks again guys for all your feedback, it is very much appreciated.

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## Vettester

You're right about the E2. Cut the Adex dosage down, run lab work in 6 weeks and see where you're at. In fact, you'll probably see a little libido improvement and what else if it gets in the upper 20's ... Just my .02

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## coop1212

I'm new here also. It looks back the order that we talked to the salesman. That what they wanted to start me on. And its $$$. After one round with them, I spoke with my primary Dr. And he wanted me try the cream. With insurance , it was $75 a month. It smelled, worried abo8t getting it on wife and kids. Then went to Injections at office which was $30 copay for 1ml twice a month. This was a roller coaster ride.high at beginning of week and low at end of second wk. Sucked bad! Then talked Dr into into writing script for a vial of test and my wife injects it at home. With Insurance now it cost me $16 per vial with will last 2-3 months. Hope some of this helps

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## Hazard

There are clinics out there that aren't in it for your health. They will prescribe you 10-12 week "mini cycles" 

Best route to take is to find an endocrinologist in your area and speak with them.....

~Haz~

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## Jupiter2

Wasn't sure we could talk prices so I refrained from mentioning it. But the outfit I've been in contact with is wanting just about $650 for 10 weeks worth of the supplies I listed at the beginning of this post. I guess you can't put a price on your well being but that seems steep. Trouble is I'm at the point where my current relationship is suffering due to the symptoms I'm experiencing, and looking back at it I'm wondering if I actually started with these symptoms 8 or 9 years ago which resulted in the destruction of my first marriage.

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## Epic Ed

Jup -- thanks for your support on the political side. ;-) I can literally talk politics all day, so I won't get going here, but if you have a facebook profile send me your contact info. I have well reasoned and thoughtful debate on my wall all of the time. Both sides of the political spectrum are welcomed.

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## Jupiter2

While I'm waiting to see my primary later in the week, I've decided to contact some other clinics for comparison's sake before committing to the first company I've been speaking with.

ThickOne posted about a good experience with a clinic in another thread on this forum. I gave them a call and so far I'm impressed. This clinic's prices seem to be more in line with some of the prices I've seen quoted as being median by other members of the forum. And this outfit seems more than willing to provide me with whatever I'll need in order to get reimbursed by my health insurance.

The gentleman I spoke with also felt that the Anastrozole prescribed by the other clinics doctor was too high in dosage, and further felt that I would be better off with Nolvadex . I will be sending him the results of my bloodwork tomorrow and expect that I'll receive a quote later in the day. In the meantime, anyone have any thoughts on the estrogen blocker substitution?

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## bowers32

Jupiter.... the very best thing you can do is keep coming to this board... dudes like Vetteman and Jpk.... are worth more than you will ever know is adivce....

Listen to what they say on both the HCG and the AntiE.... your estrogen levels are really low...plus taking the levels of AntiE they want you to could cause you some problems... trust me I know.

Same on HCG... that seems way to high to start with.

I had someone give me the same advice and as some on here can attest I went through about 5 weeks of hell.....I felt 10 times worse on TRT then before starting it becaus the doses I was told to take were way to high.

It is much better to start low, conservative... get some lab tests in 6 weeks and adjust accordingly... I have had to get off of all of it for several weeks, let my body calm down (lack of sleep, massive headaches etc....) and now I will start back up... slowly.....

I know the urge to want to start feeling like superman after the first shot... but sadly it almost never starts like that... once it gets dialed in, I think is when the benefit starts.

Good call on your part to come to this board... these guys are the bomb and very helpful.

Remember the people selling you this stuff make a profit... the more you take the sooner you need more...and the sooner you will be buying more from them.

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## Jupiter2

When I started researching this avenue as a remedy, I did so because I felt I would hit roadblocks from local physicians with regard to injectable test. My youngest brother (age 40) was diagnosed with low test several years ago (age 37 at the time), was prescribed the gel and it did nothing for him. He has not sought alternate treatment. I honestly don't know how he manages. He never looks right and seems to get ill quite often yet the guy pushes himself in ways that I simply cannot. Testament to his character.

It didn't take me long to figure out that this is pretty much a business to some of these companies. I've now spoken with three different clinics and while they all offer the same service only one of them, so far, seems to be absolutely concerned about getting me where I desire to be, without risking my health in the process. For a guy like me, with absolutely no knowledge of what constitutes a health risk regarding this subject matter, talking to someone who makes it a point to suggest that starting slow and working up is better than reaching for the sky and than lowering dosages after re-evaluation is admirable, and tells me that they are in this for the right reasons and for the long haul.

The last company I contacted seems to fit the mold that I described above. I'm looking forward to seeing what this company proposes after seeing my bloodwork results and comparing it with what the first clinic proposed. Should be interesting.

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## tubs

> When I started researching this avenue as a remedy, I did so because I felt I would hit roadblocks from local physicians with regard to injectable test. My youngest brother (age 40) was diagnosed with low test several years ago (age 37 at the time), was prescribed the gel and it did nothing for him. He has not sought alternate treatment. I honestly don't know how he manages. He never looks right and seems to get ill quite often yet the guy pushes himself in ways that I simply cannot. Testament to his character.
> 
> It didn't take me long to figure out that this is pretty much a business to some of these companies. I've now spoken with three different clinics and while they all offer the same service only one of them, so far, seems to be absolutely concerned about getting me where I desire to be, without risking my health in the process. For a guy like me, with absolutely no knowledge of what constitutes a health risk regarding this subject matter, talking to someone who makes it a point to suggest that starting slow and working up is better than reaching for the sky and than lowering dosages after re-evaluation is admirable, and tells me that they are in this for the right reasons and for the long haul.
> 
> The last company I contacted seems to fit the mold that I described above. I'm looking forward to seeing what this company proposes after seeing my bloodwork results and comparing it with what the first clinic proposed. Should be interesting.


the other problem that i have noticed is that everyone opinions may differ but no one may be wrong. I think you have to settle in with a doc you are comfortable with and work out any issuse (within reason) over time

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## Jupiter2

Got a quote from the clinic ThickOne recommended. Their pricing was just over half ($366 vs. $650) of that which was quoted to me by the first company I contacted and includes essentially the same products. That is a huge difference and is essentially like getting another 10 weeks for free.

200mg/ ml Test Cyp
1 - 11K HCG kit
20 - .5mg Anastrozole
10 - 18gx 1.5”
10 - 23gx 1.5”
$35 Doctor consult fee
$20 Shipping (ground)

As you can see the Test is 10mg less than the first company's doctor prescribed and the Anastrozole dose has been halved because like you folks here on the forums they thought 1mg twice a week was too much. And the rep stated that he will provide whatever is needed by my insurance company in order to try for reimbursement. 

Btw, the rep also stated that their products come from an FDA approved compounding pharmacy that has achieved the highest levels of certification. The rep may have mentioned the name of the pharmacy but I can't recall it at the moment. Information overload basically.

What do you guys think?

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## zaggahamma

> Got a quote from the clinic ThickOne recommended. Their pricing was just over half ($366 vs. $650) of that which was quoted to me by the first company I contacted and includes essentially the same products. That is a huge difference and is essentially like getting another 10 weeks for free.
> 
> 200mg/ ml Test Cyp
> 1 - 11K HCG kit
> 20 - .5mg Anastrozole
> 10 - 18gx 1.5
> 10 - 23gx 1.5
> $35 Doctor consult fee
> $20 Shipping (ground)
> ...


g2g...showtime  :Smilie:

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## flatscat

I am doubting that you will need the adex. I would be inclined not to take it until your first blood work comes back after your ten weeks unless you feel symptoms of high e2. If you can get by without it you will be much better off. I am a big proponent of starting with as few compounds as you can and then adding what is needed. 

We all go through a "dialing in" period at first with pretty good swings of levels for the first 4-5 months. If you start with several compounds and have some issues it may be hard to tell which one is causing which. Adex can also be taken by itself if your total is normal and free is low and e2 is high (which some guys have because of high bf). But if you raise both total and free without raising e2, then don't take it -just have it on hand though.

If you do take the adex I wouldn't go over .25 twice a week until your labs come back in.

Good luck and welcome,

Flats

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## lovbyts

> There are clinics out there that aren't in it for your health. They will prescribe you 10-12 week "mini cycles" 
> 
> Best route to take is to find an endocrinologist in your area and speak with them.....
> 
> ~Haz~


VERY true. I went to one of those for about a year. Blood work ever 6-10 weeks, wanted me to come in at least once a month and pushing his personal vitamins.  :Chairshot: 

After going to a real Endocrinologist I saw the light. World of difference.

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## zaggahamma

> I am doubting that you will need the adex. I would be inclined not to take it until your first blood work comes back after your ten weeks unless you feel symptoms of high e2. If you can get by without it you will be much better off. I am a big proponent of starting with as few compounds as you can and then adding what is needed. 
> 
> We all go through a "dialing in" period at first with pretty good swings of levels for the first 4-5 months. If you start with several compounds and have some issues it may be hard to tell which one is causing which. Adex can also be taken by itself if your total is normal and free is low and e2 is high (which some guys have because of high bf). But if you raise both total and free without raising e2, then don't take it -just have it on hand though.
> 
> If you do take the adex I wouldn't go over .25 twice a week until your labs come back in.
> 
> Good luck and welcome,
> 
> Flats


100% agree....if you can get bloodwork and monitor closely how youre feeling day to day week to week it is best...but totally agree with taking as less compounds as possible when starting..

well said flats...great advice

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## Jupiter2

Just a quick note to let you guys know that I spoke with the clinic today and the first shipment of supplies is to be sent out tomorrow. I should have it by Tuesday of next week.

Got to admit I'm a bit nervous about self injecting. Never liked needles. I just hope it ends up having the desired effect and I begin to feel better. I'll keep everyone informed by using this thread as something of a weekly journal unless you all feel starting a new thread is warranted. Thanks for all the help.

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## zaggahamma

> Just a quick note to let you guys know that I spoke with the clinic today and the first shipment of supplies is to be sent out tomorrow. I should have it by Tuesday of next week.
> 
> Got to admit I'm a bit nervous about self injecting. Never liked needles. I just hope it ends up having the desired effect and I begin to feel better. I'll keep everyone informed by using this thread as something of a weekly journal unless you all feel starting a new thread is warranted. Thanks for all the help.


youre gonna love it...no time for nervous...this is your thread no need to start a new one...did u see how change did the country  :Chairshot: 

jup...youre gonna love it bro

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## Vettester

Just takes a little practice ... You'll be fine.

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## bowers32

> Just a quick note to let you guys know that I spoke with the clinic today and the first shipment of supplies is to be sent out tomorrow. I should have it by Tuesday of next week.
> 
> Got to admit I'm a bit nervous about self injecting. Never liked needles. I just hope it ends up having the desired effect and I begin to feel better. I'll keep everyone informed by using this thread as something of a weekly journal unless you all feel starting a new thread is warranted. Thanks for all the help.


Dude trust me... I was the biggest needle ***** in the world... I was scared shitless... my wife was scared... we were like little kids afraid of the boogy man... it took us hours to do that first shot.... but with a 23 gauge pin it was nothing... literally...

when everyone on here keep telling me to not worry about it, I thought they were full of crap and had just gotten used to it...not true... it just doesn't hurt at all.

Take the advice of pulling with a large 18 gauge and then switching over to a 23 gauge to inject... works like a charm.

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## Jupiter2

Bower, I'll have to take your word for it. But it may be that your just not allergic to pain like I am lol.

On another note, I wonder if you folks could give me some guidance on the usage of supplements while doing TRT. Is there anything I should stay away from? Was thinking about ZMA to increase my HGH production, and maybe continuing with creatine and NO2 products. I want to say that I might have seen something in a thread on this forum about saw palmetto. My dad had prostate cancer years ago and I've been using it as a prevention supplement for some time. I've heard Lycopene might be an alternative. Any thoughts and/or comments?

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## forrest_and_trees

> It's good to have an AI on hand, but I wouldn't take it at all right out of the gate.


I hate to sound ignorant, however, what exactly is, "AI"? Are you referring to an anti-aromatization / Estrogen blockers?

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## zaggahamma

> I hate to sound ignorant, however, what exactly is, "AI"? Are you referring to an anti-aromatization / Estrogen blockers?


dont think ed will mind me answering for him but YUP

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## forrest_and_trees

> dont think ed will mind me answering for him but YUP


Cool- Thanks!

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## nwjt

Just for comparison, I'm on 200 mg per week right now. My 10 week supply was $20 USD copay since my insurance covers it  :Smilie:  The "charge" on it was $100 USD.

BTW, the bloodwork ran nearly $2000 USD and all I payed was a $20 copay. And people bitch about health insurance LOL.

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## zaggahamma

> There are clinics out there that aren't in it for your health. They will prescribe you 10-12 week "mini cycles" 
> 
> Best route to take is to find an endocrinologist in your area and speak with them.....
> 
> ~Haz~


i'm going into photography

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## Jupiter2

nwjt - I hope my insurance company is as gracious as yours. I'll have to submit for reimbursement once I get the paperwork. I've heard good things about United Health so I'm crossing my fingers.

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## Jadam

Good luck, Jup! Hope the insurance company helps you out.

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## Jupiter2

Today's the day!!! Expecting the delivery of my prescription. Excited and nervous at the same time lol. Will let you guys know how it goes after all is said and done.

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## flatscat

wow - I remember that day - it is really exciting - just don't pull the plunger back farther than you should. Remember more is not always better - especially at first, even though it is soooooo tempting. Good luck!

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## Jupiter2

Not good news I'm afraid. Apparently the order wasn't shipped last Thursday as was implied. I called the clinic today for tracking info. It took a couple of hours for the email to reach me but essentially the tracking number showed that the billing info. had just reached UPS. In other words they somehow managed to "forget" to ship the order. They didn't "forget" however to charge my credit card last week.

I'm hoping that this was just an oversight and not indicative of any funny business on the part of the company I've chosen to do business with. In any case it'll be a couple of more days of waiting impatiently.  :Frown:

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## zaggahamma

> Not good news I'm afraid. Apparently the order wasn't shipped last Thursday as was implied. I called the clinic today for tracking info. It took a couple of hours for the email to reach me but essentially the tracking number showed that the billing info. had just reached UPS. In other words they somehow managed to "forget" to ship the order. They didn't "forget" however to charge my credit card last week.
> 
> I'm hoping that this was just an oversight and not indicative of any funny business on the part of the company I've chosen to do business with. In any case it'll be a couple of more days of waiting impatiently.


that would never get forgotten

hope u get it soon bro

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## Jadam

Damn, that's rough after the excitement you were feeling earlier. Hope they get it out to you quickly.

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## Jupiter2

Tracking info. shows the package in transit. I should have it tomorrow.

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## Jupiter2

Package arrived today. But another disappointment upon opening it as the sharps container and the insulin needles and syringes were apparently forgotten by the compounding pharmacy. I'm beginning to think this is all a sign.

I do have what I need for my Test injections and will administer the first one after supper. Wish me luck!

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## zaggahamma

Be thankful for what you got..maybe they'll rush out the missing supplies and throw in a month of GH for free for the mistake
but yes best of luck to you but just to let u know...luck is only needed for those without test!
keep us posted  :Wink:

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## Jupiter2

Nope. No free month of GH. But they are sending me the missing items via 2nd day air.

First injection went off without a hitch. Plan on doing the HCG on Monday, and continue with that rotation... Test on Thursdays, HCG on Mondays.

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## Jupiter2

Sharps container and insulin needles arrived this afternoon. Wasn't expecting them until tomorrow at the earliest.

Feeling no different as of yet but judging from everything I've heard that is to be expected. Best thing is no soreness whatsoever at the injection sight (Quad).

Forgot to mention that my Test vial contains 2.5mg of Progesterone in addition to the 200mg of Test. Is this normal? And what is the progesterone for?

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## Jupiter2

Don't abandon me now guys, I'm just getting started lol.

Will be doing my first HCG injection today. Script says 1ml (1000 iu) each week. Should I break this up and inject twice per week? Just about all of the research I've done seems to point me to sites where HCG is being used for dieting and those folks are injecting daily.

Also, I've got a 10 week supply of the stuff and from what I've read it tends to remain effective once mixed for about 6 weeks. Will it last me the 10 weeks if refrigerated as it is supposed to be?

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## bowers32

> Don't abandon me now guys, I'm just getting started lol.
> 
> Will be doing my first HCG injection today. Script says 1ml (1000 iu) each week. Should I break this up and inject twice per week? Just about all of the research I've done seems to point me to sites where HCG is being used for dieting and those folks are injecting daily.
> 
> Also, I've got a 10 week supply of the stuff and from what I've read it tends to remain effective once mixed for about 6 weeks. Will it last me the 10 weeks if refrigerated as it is supposed to be?


Is this 500iu twice a week of HCG? if so that seems too much to start. If you feel you have to start at 500iu pay close attention to how it make you feel the next day... I started that high and it knocked me on my ass, espically the next day.

Most everyone on here would suggest to start low and slowly work your way up after labs....

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## Jupiter2

Bowers, the script reads:

"Inject 1ml (1000 iu) subcutaneously each week"

Nothing more, nothing less lol.

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## Epic Ed

I haven't run hCG yet, so I don't have any first hand advice to offer. Most of what I've read, though, indicates higher dose of hCG can leave you feeling a bit crappy. Not sure what that entails, but maybe someone else who has been down that road can chime in. If you're still debating on what to pin to day I'd hold off until you get more suggestions or cut the dose in 1/2 to 500iu.

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## Vettester

Personally, I'd start out with trying 250iu's x 2/wk to see how you do on it. From there maybe work up to 3x week. You're on 200mg of cyp, right? IMO you shouldn't need more than that for a continuous protocol, but run your BW in 6 weeks to see where things are at. Just don't do the 1000iu once a week drill, things will be much more stable with doing the smaller amounts mentioned above.

HCG is usually good for 60 days in the fridge. I've heard a few members say they think its potency starts to drop after 30 day, but I've never had any problems going a full two months with it.

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## Jupiter2

Thanks for taking the time to respond gang. I'm going to do 250 iu's twice per week and see how it goes.

Called the clinic earlier and the rep told me not to worry about diminshed effectiveness with the HCG . He said keeping it refrigerated after mixing should keep it stable for at least 120 days. As long as it remains effective for the next 10 weeks I'll be happy.

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## Jupiter2

Not ever having been good at math I decided to hold off on my first injection of HCG . I'm totally confused at this point and don't want to risk injecting too large an amount of the product.

My dilemma is this: I have been given a package of 10 short needle insulin syringes. They are labelled 1/2 cc for 50 units or less. My pea sized brain tells me that if 1cc equals 1ml, I would need to give myself 2 injections if I followed the doctor's prescription of injecting 1000 iu's once per week.

I agree with what has been stated that starting slower is the better way to go and wish to inject 250 iu's twice per week. Following the above formula it seems that I'll need to fill the syringe to the 25 unit mark in order to end up with 250 iu's, but I'm concerned that my reasoning is wrong and I don't want to make a mistake.

I'd appreciate some expert help on this. I hate sounding like a wimp but I don't want to do more harm than good with products that I obviously have no choice but to be on for the long term. Thanks in advance.  :Smilie:

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## Vettester

Do you have 2 vials at 5000iu per vial, or is it just 1 vial at 10,000iu? Have you already mixed it with the bac water? If so, how many ml's did you mix with the HCG ?

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## Jupiter2

I have 1 vial at 10,000 iu's. And a container of 30ml of Bacteriostatic water. Have not yet mixed it. It is telling me to mix 10ml of the water to the powder.

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## Vettester

OK, got ya. 

Yes, you can do 10ml of bac water with the HCG , which will = 10,000iu. It's a lot of water, but for the sake of doing the math it will be easier for you to keep track of this first round. 

You should have a large syringe for mixing the water with the HCG. 
-Disinfect the vials and syringes.
-Take the large syringe, inject into the HCG vial and withdraw 10ml of of air.
-Withdraw 2ml of bac water, inject it into the HCG vial, then mix gently by rolling between your palms and fingers.
-Finish reconstituting by adding the other 8ml of bac water. Roll gently again a few times and it's good to go.
-Put in the fridge immediately after.

10ml or 10cc = 10,000iu. So .250cc (1/4cc) will = 250iu. 

Make sense? If I missed anything please let me know.

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## Jupiter2

Thx for the help Vette. Just did the injection. .25 cc's with a needle that looked to be no bigger than a quarter inch. Don't know how long this stuff takes to enter the system or how long it stays but I'll keep everyone informed of any significant developments if they occur.

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## Vettester

> Thx for the help Vette. Just did the injection. .25 cc's with a needle that looked to be no bigger than a quarter inch. Don't know how long this stuff takes to enter the system or how long it stays but I'll keep everyone informed of any significant developments if they occur.


Yeah, sub-q needles are usually 5/16" in length. I presume you're up to speed with how and where to take the sub q shots? Figuring that's a "yes" since you've taken the plunge.

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## Jupiter2

Pinched the stomach and went in at a 45 degree angle. That's what I got from some of the clearer videos on youtube.

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## Jupiter2

Will be doing my second T injection tomorrow so here is my end of week 1 report.

No changes to mood or ability to deal with stress. As a matter of fact yesterday my stress level rose significantly for a two or three hour period and I found myself quite overwhelmed emotionally. My libido remains unchanged... just about zero. I've had a very subtle change to my sleep pattern. Finding it a bit easier to get up in the morning even though I'm still waking constantly throughout the night, but I'm still not finding myself overly motivated to get things done that need to get done.

Since the HCG injection on Monday I've noticed what appears to be a slight increase in testicular size. This happens occaisionally so I don't know if I can attribute it solely to the medication. I've also noticed that despite not having done a workout for about 3 weeks due to what I believe is tendonitis in my left forearm I seem to be gaining a bit in size. Probably some water weight gain. Also noticing a bit of tenderness in my right breast. Not significant and no discernable lump. I plan on waiting until the end of next week (Another T inject and 2 HCG injects) before chalking this up to a significant rise in my estrogen level and starting on the Anastrozole.

Appreciate any and all comments.

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## bowers32

That is a lot going on from just 2 injections.... I would think it would take a little longer than that to start seeing results of any kind. I am sure Vette and others with more expierence can chime in on that.

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## Jupiter2

Ya I agree. Weirdest thing is the size difference, while quite minor seemed to occur within a span of just a few hours. Woke up yesterday morning looking no different than the day before. Went back to bed around noon time as I was feeling very tired. Probably fell asleep around 1, woke up on and off until deciding to get out of bed at around 3 pm. Body felt different, can't really explain how, it just did. Went into the bathroom to shave and that's when I noticed that I seemed a bit "pudgier." This is why I'm thinking water gain.

As far as the breast tenderness goes, I had been experiencing a bit of that prior to beginning the TRT. I was actually surprised that my bloodwork showed my estrogen level to be as low as it was (18.3) because everything I read was leading me to the conclusion that I might have a problem with my estrogen level being too high. As I had been taking Saw Palmetto for sometime, I kind of formed a theory that it may have been responsible for the tenderness I was experiencing, so I stopped taking it a week or two prior to beginning TRT. The tenderness subsided during that time frame but re-emerged a few days ago despite the fact that I have not restarted the saw palmetto.

I'm not experienced enough to attribute any of this to the TRT, just reporting what has occurred since starting a week ago. Placebo effect? Could be. That's why I appreciate any and all comments.

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## nwjt

T injections are not going to help with dealing with stress. If anything, it will make it worse.

I did help reduce my stress level though in a round about way. It got rid of my depression, where I would worry all the time, and that would cause stress.

If you are prone to temper or getting stressed out over stuff it will only make it worse.

After 2 shots I had massive changes, including increased strength, drive, sex drive, will power etc.

THe only thing I am lacking now again is controlling my diet. I seem to be more hungry than usual like my blood sugar levels drop.

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## Jupiter2

Nwjt, I hear what you're saying concerning stress and I should have clarified what I was saying. The mild depression that I'm experiencing makes it very difficult to deal with problems as they arise. And trying to deal with more than 1 thing at a time can be overwhelming for me. I don't know if that is common with testosterone deficiency but that's the way it is for me.

I'm also dealing with a condition that I affectionately call "scatter-brained" because I don't know of a better term to adequately explain it. I consider myself a pretty literate person. Well educated and have always been very well spoken. But as of late I have found it extremely difficult to explain things if a question has been asked of me. Not so much a problem when writing in a forum such as this because I can think through what I am trying to expalin. But attempting to have this conversation with you face to face would be frustrating for me because I cannot seem to keep focused on the topic of conversation. Depression, stress and even, god forbid, early onset Alzheimer's are all causes of something like this, but I'm betting that it too is testosterone related in either a direct or indirect way.

As far as the shots go, I've only had one of each. I've been looking (hoping) for the equivalent of night and day changes and maybe that happens to some people. I'm sure they are occuring in me but at a far more subtle rate. Any change at this point will be welcome. The symptoms I'm experiencing are driving me crazy. At this point if all the TRT does for me is get me to the point of sleeping soundly through the night, that all by itself, may be enough to allow me to deal effectively with the routine rigors of daily life that we all experience.

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## nwjt

Do you lift weights? T is far more effective at everything it does if you do some anaerobic stuff like bench press and squats.

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## Jupiter2

Yes but I've had to stop recently to give my left arm a break. I believe it's tendonitis. My plan is to restart my workouts next week.

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## Vettester

Jupiter, stay on your regiment another 4 weeks and tell us how you feel then. Banking you'll see some positive improvements. It takes a bit ... One or two shots won't tell you that much.

As far as testosterone goes ... When the hormone levels are balance and optimized, you'll feel calmer and more relaxed. As far as "T" contributing to anger and that stuff, NON SENSE! If it's abused, OK ... If your levels are low, YES, but when your hormones are balance ... Think about it. Stress is alive and kicking with everyone. When I had low "T", my stress was worse because I didn't have a lot of natural confidence to deal with it properly, and my ability to rationalize objectively wasn't anywhere to be found. I still have stress, I have bad days, and I can get pissed off. "T" doesn't prevent these things from still happening, but it does give you a whole new set of tools to deal with it differently.

Can't stress lab work enough, especially during your first 6 months of TRT. You may just be having a bad week, plus your body is going through some changes just getting used to it. Also, maybe you're dealing with some anxiety issues. I can't say that I'm a stranger in that area either. The older I got, the worse it got, even on "T". Luckily it's not an all the time thing for me, but I do keep some beta blockers for the moments when it's needed (a little secret about me). Lastly, do what you can to keep fit, cardio, core, etc. That will definitely help your mindset.

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## Jupiter2

Thx for the kind words Vette. I feel as you do that with the right equipment you can accomplish things that would be almost impossible in their absence. This was the point I was trying to make. Depression is a malady that has a profound effect on everything. There are some days an inconsequential argument with a family member can leave you feeling as though the world is about to end. But on a different day, and in a different frame of mind you can recognize the same argument for what it really is... stupidity, and maybe avoid it in the first place. The key here is that the depression is being caused by the low T.

I've come to the conclusion, based on a bunch of research, and some fantastic discussion here that Testosterone may just be essential in solving a whole host of age related problems in men. At the very least, as you've already implied, it may be a key tool in lessening the effect of both aging and stress upon us.

I believe the clinic that I am working with intends to schedule bloodwork for me at the 6 month mark. I've got an appt. with my primary at the 3 month mark and will seek to have my bloodwork done at that time. As far as working out goes, I intend on being back at the gym next week. Working out has never been an issue for me. But like others on the forum, maintaining a healthy diet will be. I am not overweight at this time (157 lbs. @ 5'8") but I figure my body fat percentage is around 18%. I figure the gym will be able to convert that pretty quickly into muscle once my Test levels are back to where they should be. And I plan on introducing some light running into my program for cardio

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## Vettester

If I may suggest, run some lab work at the 6 week stage, then 2 months after that again. 3 months is way too long to see where you are at with your program. Like I mentioned, the first 6 months are critical. This is where you will find out how your body responds to HRT, and this is when you make the necessary adjustments to your protocol. IMO, 3 sets of labs should be ran in the first 6 months ... 6 weeks, 2 months thereafter, then 3 months after that. Quarterly lab work from thereon should suffice in maintaining a good HRT protocol. Just my .02

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## Jupiter2

Okie. I'll give the clinic a call tomorrow and arrange for bloodwork sometime in July. I checked and was a bit off concerning my appt. with my primary. Thought it was in August but it is actually the first week of September, which falls in line with with your recommendation of another round of testing two months after the first test at 6 weeks. Thx a bunch!

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## bowers32

Good luck Jupiter..... You have gotten some great advice on here and frankly some of it I should have followed myself coming out of the gate.

Vette is right... the labwork is the key... it will tell all.....

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## zaggahamma

> If I may suggest, run some lab work at the 6 week stage, then 2 months after that again. 3 months is way too long to see where you are at with your program. Like I mentioned, the first 6 months are critical. This is where you will find out how your body responds to HRT, and this is when you make the necessary adjustments to your protocol. IMO, 3 sets of labs should be ran in the first 6 months ... 6 weeks, 2 months thereafter, then 3 months after that. Quarterly lab work from thereon should suffice in maintaining a good HRT protocol. Just my .02


nice new avy

glad no rugged bro 

what do you call her

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## Vettester

> nice new avy
> 
> glad no rugged bro 
> 
> what do you call her


Seems to be the route everyone is going, so just trying to keep up.

I've got a headless young male avi just for you, I'll upload it next time  :Chairshot: 

I call her "distracting".  :Aabreakdance:

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## zaggahamma

> Seems to be the route everyone is going, so just trying to keep up.
> 
> I've got a headless young male avi just for you, I'll upload it next time 
> 
> I call her "distracting".


thats about the only time i'll accept headless
sorry jup
 : Hijack:

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## Jupiter2

No need to apologize. A little social distraction is good for everyone lol.

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## Jupiter2

Btw... Not to be outdone I have found an avatar. A little bit cartoony looking but I think I have clearly won the avatar contest. LOL

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## Epic Ed

Pretty sure I've got you beat...

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## Jupiter2

CURSES!!! Foiled again!

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## Jupiter2

Ok gang end of week 2 report. Week 3 begins tomorrow.

Current weekly protocol:

200mg Test Cyp. on Thursday
250mg HCG on Saturday and Tuesday

Still no noticeable changes to mood. Very mild change to libido began on day 10 (Sunday). In other words I can feel a stirring down there but it's nothing to write home about. Don't know if it will ever get to this point but I would consider my buddy jumping to attention at the sight of my GF standing naked in front of me to be a very positive sign.

Sleep is still problematic. Waking up throughout the night but apparently the sleep I am getting is enough to allow me to get up in the morning without feeling like a zombie which is a welcome relief. Motivation to get things done seems to be improving a bit as a result.

As I suspected the slight increase to testicle size that I experienced was temporary. No discernable difference in them even though I'm injecting 250mg of HCG twice per week. Going to give it another week at this level and see how it goes. If no changes I may bump it up to .50 cc's twice per week starting week 4.

Mild tenderness and swelling in right breast remains but I still feel as though it's not significant enough to start the Anastrozole.

Have again delayed restarting my training regimen due to the problem with my left forearm. Seems to be getting a bit better with each passing day but it is nowhere close to completely healed and I don't want to risk exascerbating the problem.

Appreciate any and all comments.

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## nwjt

I'm having a WAY different reaction.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=434921

I am seriously wondering if your gear is fake.

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## legend1022

I just purchased 1000 iu's of Somatotropin. Got it from a friend and paid 700.00
Seems a little low so I am starting to get skepticle about it. He says it will be shipped in a refrigerated box. Does this seem to good to be true or is this something to be worried about. Just currious because it says on the main page you should pay around 1.75 pr higher per iu and I got it for .70
Any thoughts. I am a first timer for hgh so I just want it to be right. 
Also when I recieve it is there a way to tell if it's good or not?
thanks

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## Jupiter2

I suppose anything is possible but it would be a pretty sophisticated operation if that were the case. Each of the medications is in it's own shrinkwrapped box from the compounding pharmacy with the prescription attached. Looks legit.

I checked the pharmacy online after I received the order. Got a ton of hits and only one which seemed to be negative in nature (A Washington doctor who ran into trouble with the Feds (FDA) for ordering and receiving what may have been illegally manufactured HCG from them)

Looking into the case it appears that the Feds are questioning whether the HCG that the doctor ordered from the compounding pharmacy was illegally imported from outside the country and re-packaged and re-labeled or compounded from an FDA approved drug. If compounded from an FDA approved drug the pharmacy will in all likelihood be ok. But if it imported the drug the pharmacy could be in some trouble.

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## Epic Ed

> I just purchased 1000 iu's of Somatotropin. Got it from a friend and paid 700.00
> Seems a little low so I am starting to get skepticle about it. He says it will be shipped in a refrigerated box. Does this seem to good to be true or is this something to be worried about. Just currious because it says on the main page you should pay around 1.75 pr higher per iu and I got it for .70
> Any thoughts. I am a first timer for hgh so I just want it to be right. 
> Also when I recieve it is there a way to tell if it's good or not?
> thanks


Start your own thread, dude.

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## nwjt

Its not hard to buy boxes and bottles, print labels, and shrink wrap things. A couple of mexicans cna kick out hundreds of boxes like that a day.

I am NOT saying it is fake but we certainly are reacting differently for certain.

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## Jupiter2

No doubt about it. Hopefully the problem at this point is nothing more than my body metabolizing the meds slower than yours. Some of the other guys said it may take as long as 3 weeks before I begin to realize some of the effects of the meds. Hopefully this will be the week it kicks into high gear.

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## nwjt

You should post a pic of the testoterone.

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## Jupiter2

I can post a pic but it won't tell you much. Bottle is private labeled because it was compounded apparently. Has the name of the pharmacy and I'm not sure if there are rules against providing that here on the forum.

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## Jupiter2

End of week 3 report. Week 4 begins tomorrow.

Current weekly protocol remains as follows:

200mg Test Cyp. on Thursday
250 iu's HCG on Saturday and Tuesday (total 500 iu's per week)

Had a couple of lousy days this week. Monday and Tuesday to be exact. Depression mainly after having to deal with an idiot neighbor. General mood still seems unchanged. As stated previously libido has mildly changed for the better but it is still not what I expected based on the statements of many of the guys in the forums. What has changed for the better is the physical sensations that occur during an orgasm. But disappointingly after that one orgasm I cannot seem to reach that point again for nearly 24 hours.

Sleep continues to stabilize. I have begun supplementing with magnesium so that could be helping a bit. GF says that I am snoring during the night which is unusual for me. That tells me that I'm achieving a deeper level of sleep and must be what is helping me rise in the mornings without feeling as though my muscles are not responding to my brain's command to rise.

Regarding the HCG, I am noticing a slight increase to my libido on the day following its injection but it does seem to subside by the day after that. I've decided to again wait another week at this level (250 iu's twice per week) and see how it goes. Doctor originally prescribed 1000 iu's, once per week. If no changes I may bump it up to 500 iu's twice per week starting next week.

Still experiencing the mild tenderness in my right breast but it seems as though the swelling has diminished slightly. No symptoms on the left side. Anastrozole remains off the table for now.

Left arm is definitely getting better but I still lack the confidence to push it as I fear the long term consequences to my ultimate goal of creating a completely new me will be at risk.

As always your comments are appreciated.

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## zaggahamma

> End of week 3 report. Week 4 begins tomorrow.
> 
> Current weekly protocol remains as follows:
> 
> 200mg Test Cyp. on Thursday
> 250 iu's HCG on Saturday and Tuesday (total 500 iu's per week)
> 
> Had a couple of lousy days this week. Monday and Tuesday to be exact. Depression mainly after having to deal with an idiot neighbor. General mood still seems unchanged. As stated previously libido has mildly changed for the better but it is still not what I expected based on the statements of many of the guys in the forums. What has changed for the better is the physical sensations that occur during an orgasm. But disappointingly after that one orgasm I cannot seem to reach that point again for nearly 24 hours.
> 
> ...


jup..u dont have a breast do you? j/k....
actually the only thing that stuck out was when you mentioned snoring and i'm not a sleep professional but i have never known snoring to equate deeper/better sleep and/or more able to rise better in the morning, i would think to the contrary? idk, maybe there's more than one type of snoring?

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## Jupiter2

JP I actually have 2!!! Is this a side effect of the Test??? Is this bad??? O.o

LOL I hear what your saying and would generally agree but having watched my dad lay down for an afternoon snooze on the couch I can testify to the fact that once he starts snoring it will take an event of near catastrophic proportion to wake him.

I've always been a very light sleeper. The slightest noise is enough to wake me and I've never been one to snore. I've never been able to sleep on my back, and am not obese so the snoring is a bit of a curiousity. All I know is that I am getting to bed at the same time since I've started the TRT, I seem to be waking less throughout the night and waking in the morning feeling rested enough to get out of bed far earlier than I have in ages. My GF's informing me that I'm snoring during the night is how I came to the conclusion that it must mean I'm sleeping more soundly.

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## zaggahamma

> JP I actually have 2!!! Is this a side effect of the Test??? Is this bad??? O.o
> 
> LOL I hear what your saying and would generally agree but having watched my dad lay down for an afternoon snooze on the couch I can testify to the fact that once he starts snoring it will take an event of near catastrophic proportion to wake him.
> 
> I've always been a very light sleeper. The slightest noise is enough to wake me and I've never been one to snore. I've never been able to sleep on my back, and am not obese so the snoring is a bit of a curiousity. All I know is that I am getting to bed at the same time since I've started the TRT, I seem to be waking less throughout the night and waking in the morning feeling rested enough to get out of bed far earlier than I have in ages. My GF's informing me that I'm snoring during the night is how I came to the conclusion that it must mean I'm sleeping more soundly.


yes i hear what your saying thats why i wonder if all snoring is bad/detremental to our sleep...i too sleep lightly...good to know that youre seeing improved sleep and thanks for posting such details with your log... we're all here to learn...we'll be tuned in...wish you continued success and keep us posted

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## Jupiter2

End of week 4 report. Week 5 begins today.

Current weekly protocol as follows:

200mg Test Cyp. on Thursday
HCG on Saturday and Tuesday (see below for slight change in dosing)

For the last week noticing increased oiliness on skin which in turn has caused a bit of acne to appear on chest. Nothing major but a difference nonetheless. One thing I hadn't noted in past posts that dawns on me as being somewhat important is the lack of occaisional hot flashes in the evening hours. I think this is a an effect of the increase in testosterone in my system.

Sleep pattern has definitely improved as I find myself wanting to get to bed earlier and as a result I'm waking earlier. Occaisional stress, even of the most menial kind, still has a notable impact on how quickly I am able to fall asleep, however it doesn't seem to leave me feeling any more fatigued the following day. 

Normal injection dose for HCG is 250 iu's on Saturday and Tuesday. This week however I upped my Tuesday dose to 350 iu's to see if there would be any notable difference. Could have been a placebo effect, but 24 hours after that injection chest appeared a bit fuller and libido seemed somewhat better than usual. Mind you, I still have not returned to my workout routine due to the problem with my arm, which continues to get better, so I'm not sure how to account for it, although increasing estrogen comes immediately to mind as water retention is a noted side effect, and my right breast remains a bit swollen. I've also had a couple of days this week where I've felt like I need to take a nap mid morning (another sign?). My thought is to bring both weekly doses of the HCG to 300 iu's and see how that works for me over the next couple of weeks. That will still be 400 iu's shy of the doctor's original prescription of 1000 iu's once per week.

I definitely believe I'm experiencing the onset of gyno in my right breast (slightly puffy nip, increased sensitivity) but having no pain I'm hesitant to begin the Anastrozole because they are .5mg capsules and may be a bit too strong and lower my estrogen too severely with the doctor's prescription being 1 capsule twice per week (Originally prescribed 1mg twice per week but upon everyone's suggestion asked for a lower dose). I am actually considering taking 1 capsule per week, perhaps 2 or 3 days after my Test injection with the thought that as the Test in my system begins to peak I would experience more Test to Estrogen conversion and this is when I would want the Anastrozole to do it's job. But quite honestly I'm not experienced enough with these products to know if this a valid theory and cannot seem to locate any info with regard to how long Anastrozole remains effective in the body. Any thoughts on this? No bloodwork scheduled until beginning of September.

As always your comments are appreciated.

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## Matt

Very interesting and helpful log Jupiter..

Please keep it updated...

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## Jupiter2

Thank you kind sir. I appreciate the comment  :Big Grin:

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## Jupiter2

Ok gang here is my end of week 5 report. Week 6 began today.

Current weekly protocol as follows:

200mg Test Cyp. on Thursday
300 iu's HCG on Saturday and Tuesday

Increased skin oiliness is still in evidence with a resulting increase to acne in the chest area. The heat wave we are having here in the northeast is likely exacerbating the problem which seems to flare up and then subside with regularity. I am still viewing this as a welcome side effect of the Test in my system.

Still can't complain about my sleep pattern. Though I'm still not sleeping through the night the sleep I am getting seems to be enough to allow me to wake without a problem in the morning.

I increased my HCG dose from 250 iu's twice per week to 300 iu's twice per week. This dosage seems to be working a bit better for me. The effects of this product are kind of hard to quantify but I do know that I feel better with it than without it as the week progresses following my Test injection.

My libido is still not to the point where I constantly feel the need to dip the stick. This is something of a disappointment but it's still better than it was before I began the TRT. As I've stated previously my orgasms are far more intense than they have been in years but I am still lacking the ability to go a second round for several hours. On a better note waking with wood in the middle of the night or in the morning is occurring with a decent amount of regularity. 

Having said that however I still seem to be exhibiting symptoms of an increasing estrogen level. Right nipple remains puffy with a very small lump beneath it. It is not overly tender to the touch however, and I have never experienced the itchiness that most folks seem to complain about with regard to gynecomastia . There are still no appreciable symptoms to my left breast. I have noted an increase in sleepiness mid afternoon but nothing that prevents me from doing what needs to be done. As the heat may be a big contributor to the fatigue I still find myself hesitant to begin the Anastrozole. Does anyone have an idea what signals the point of no return with regard to gyno?

My arm has significantly improved over the last week. I've decided that I will give it 1 more week and then begin working out lightly next weekend.

That's it for this week. Would appreciate comments on the gyno situation. Stay well!

----------


## subnet

jupiter - I'm right with you on a few things. First, I have had the same increased oily skin since I started with TRT back in October. At 40 years old, I am fighting acne and it's pissing me off, but I've found that by washing once daily with benzole peroxide (face), and shoulders and chest with Dawn dishwashing liquid (do a search here and it's not uncommon), and using clearasil wipes at night, that it's helping fight the damn pimples. Also started using a multi-vitamin without iodine and that may be helping as well.

One thing that concerns me is a few comments you've made. One is of the hot flashes going away (or not as prominent), and of course repeated comments on your breast/nipple. We're all assuming that you have low E2 since you had around an 18 from the bloodwork, but maybe it was a bad result and that you really have high E2? With me, my E2 was high and I had a LOT of hot flashes. Increasing my Test levels (and lowering my E2) helped immediately get rid of the hot flashes. I had nipple puffyness as well and Arimidex helped that.

So maybe your E2 (Estradiol) test gave bad numbers and you really don't have low/med E2 as you have been led to believe? As Vette has said, definitely get checked out sooner than 6 months to see what they come up with. Hopefully they're using the 'correct' or 'more better' E2 test?

thanks for posting your log too btw!

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## Jupiter2

Hmmm... Dawn dishwashing liquid for acne eh? Will have to give that a try. Thx for the tip Subnet.

I am taking a multi-vitamin (which does contain iodine I believe) at the moment along with some added magnesium, niacin (for cholesterol control), flax seed oil, and selenium (for prostate protection).

Now that you mention it, the low E2 in conjunction with low Test doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense given some of my symptoms at the time. When the blood panel was conducted I was already experiencing breast tenderness on that same side, with a bit of swelling but didn't have the puffy nipple. I had been supplementing with saw palmetto for a good amount of time however and just after the blood panel decided to discontinue it for a bit, because I had a theory that it was causing the problem. Within a couple of weeks the tenderness and swelling began to subside to the point of almost being normal and then I started the TRT which brought it all back.

The hot flashes are non existant at this point which I figure to be a good sign. I am not scheduled for another blood panel (with my primary) until the first week of September which will put me 14 weeks into the therapy and I only have a 10 week supply. Hadn't realized that before now. I guess that means I will need to get the clinic to order me a new panel within the next couple of weeks so the meds can be adjusted if needed before a new order is placed. 

If worse comes to worse I'll take an Arimidex capsule on Sunday or Monday and see how it goes. I just really wanted to hold off on throwing any more drugs into the mix until my next screening so I could get a good read on how my body was metabolizing the testosterone and HCG .

----------


## Jupiter2

End of week 6 report. Week 7 began yesterday.

Current weekly protocol remains as follows:

200mg Test Cyp. on Thursday
300 iu's HCG on Saturday and Tuesday

The Dawn dishwashing liquid remedy that was suggested has had a very positive effect on the acne I've been experiencing in the chest area. Thank you Subnet for the suggestion. Skin oiliness is still an issue but is now manageable.

Sleep pattern remains consistent. Though not perfect I have no issues getting up early in the morning.

The increased HCG dose (300 iu's 2x per week) seems to be providing more benefit that the 250 iu's twice per week I was taking, but as I've stated before the effects are very difficult to quantify. All I can say is that I feel a bit better at 300 iu's twice per week. 

Still no extraordinary change to my libido. Definitely better than it was before TRT, but definitely not providing me with sudden erections that were common during my teen years. 

I'm pretty certan at this point that increasing estrogen is responsible for the increase in sleepiness mid morning and mid afternoon. Still not so bad that it prevents me from doing what needs to be done. But a cat nap is becoming a daily occurance. It may also be responsible for an increase in moodiness. Have called the clinic with regards to getting some bloodwork done. My rep is out of the country but did send an email stating he would set it up at a cost of $200.00. I shot an email back asking for what he specifically recommends be screened and as soon as I receive his reply I will call my primary and see if she will requisition one for me. This may save me a few bucks.

My arm is definitely at the point where I feel comfortable enough to begin a light workout. I'm hoping to get to the gym on Saturday. We'll see how it goes.

That's it for this week. Stay well everyone!

----------


## zaggahamma

> End of week 6 report. Week 7 began yesterday.
> 
> Current weekly protocol remains as follows:
> 
> 200mg Test Cyp. on Thursday
> 300 iu's HCG on Saturday and Tuesday
> 
> The Dawn dishwashing liquid remedy that was suggested has had a very positive effect on the acne I've been experiencing in the chest area. Thank you Subnet for the suggestion. Skin oiliness is still an issue but is now manageable.
> 
> ...


glad its goin well bro....

just a thought...how certain are you that your slight sluggishness is due to estro....please remind are you taking antie E's....sucks that youre sleeping well but still needing the naps

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## Vettester

Jup, give it a little more time for things to balance out and I think your libido will get better and better. The HCG really seemed to give it a noticeable difference after about 2 to 3 months. It just takes a little bit for everything to come together.

----------


## Jupiter2

JP I don't have any bloodwork to confirm it, but I am experiencing some mild gyno, seemed to have put on a bit of weight (assuming it to be water), the last couple of weeks have not been experiencing the very occasional stirrings in the nads, and have been experiencing mid morning and mid afternoon sleepiness, and increased moodiness.

I do have the Anastrozole but have been holding off on taking it until the next round of bloodwork so I can get an accurate reading on how the Test and HCG are being metabolized by my system. I go for the bottle everyday and then put it down after convincing myself that another week or two isn't going to hurt. But I have a gut feeling that taking just one of those capsules a week is going to make a substantial difference in the way I'm feeling.

Vette, I'm trying to be patient but I've got to tell you that I'm a bit disappointed so far. While I am feeling better than before, the TRT has not provided me with the night and day difference you guys have spoken of and that I was expecting. I am chalking that up to 2 things at this point, no workouts to enable me to see a physical difference in myself and out of whack estrogen.

----------


## zaggahamma

> JP I don't have any bloodwork to confirm it, but I am experiencing some mild gyno, seemed to have put on a bit of weight (assuming it to be water), the last couple of weeks have not been experiencing the very occasional stirrings in the nads, and have been experiencing mid morning and mid afternoon sleepiness, and increased moodiness.
> 
> I do have the Anastrozole but have been holding off on taking it until the next round of bloodwork so I can get an accurate reading on how the Test and HCG are being metabolized by my system. I go for the bottle everyday and then put it down after convincing myself that another week or two isn't going to hurt. But I have a gut feeling that taking just one of those capsules a week is going to make a substantial difference in the way I'm feeling.
> 
> Vette, I'm trying to be patient but I've got to tell you that I'm a bit disappointed so far. While I am feeling better than before, the TRT has not provided me with the night and day difference you guys have spoken of and that I was expecting. I am chalking that up to 2 things at this point, no workouts to enable me to see a physical difference in myself and out of whack estrogen.


hopefully the virtue will pay off

----------


## Jupiter2

Ok gang sorry for the tardiness. Went away for a few days and had no computer access.

End of week 7 report. Week 8 began on Thursday (7/22)

Weekly protocol remains unchanged:

200mg Test Cyp (Thursday)
300iu HCG (Saturday and Tuesday)

Problems with chest acne seem to be tapering off immensely. Using the Dawn dishwashing liquid was definitely a major help. But I'm wondering if it may also have something to do with diminishing effectiveness of my HCG (which has reached the end of it's normal shelf life).

Began taking penicillin and 800mg ibuprofen last week following a dental visit due to a toothache. X-rays showed no abcess so have no idea what the penicillin is for. The only side I've noted has been some foul smelling urine. Haven't been able to locate any material on the web regarding interactivity between these 2 meds and Test or HCG. If anyone has any info. I'd love to hear it.

Gyno symptoms seem to be stabilizing. Still have the puffy nipples but tenderness has decreased to the point of barely being noticeable. Irritability and moodiness is still a problem however, as is mid morning and mid afternoon sleepiness. Still believe all of this is due to elevated estrogen levels but have not been able to catch up with my clinic's rep to schedule some new bloodwork. Willing to bet a fortune however that he will be available this week as I need my Test script refilled.

Have not had the opportunity to get to the gym yet. Guess that is both good news and bad. Gives the arm additional rest but is not helping my physical appearance any.

Okay folks that's about it for this week. Looking forward to any comments you may have. Stay well!

----------


## Jupiter2

End of week 8 report. Week 9 began on Thursday (7/29)

The weekly protocol remains unchanged, however my Test vial which was supposed to contain 10 ml apparently contained only 8 1/2. (Was hoping it would at least be a full 9 ml). As a result I was only able to inject approx 80-90 mg yesterday. A new vial is on order and I'll make up the difference as soon as it arrives. 

200mg Test Cyp (Thursday's)
300iu HCG 2x per week (Saturday and Tuesday, 600iu total)

Finished taking penicillin prescribed by dentist but it had no appreciable affect on the pain I've been experiencing. As a result I've been taking the 800mg ibuprofen at least twice per day to deal with the pain. The dentist has prescribed a new antibiotic which I'll be picking up today in the hope that I have a better response to it. Appt. with oral surgeon on August 5th will permanently solve the problem.

As I mentioned in my last post, gyno symptoms seem to have stabilized. Puffy nipples are still evident but very little tenderness. Irritability and moodiness still prevalent, as is mid morning and mid afternoon sleepiness.

Spoke with rep from clinic and discussed symptoms. He agrees that everything points to an increase in estrogen and suggested I begin the Adex (.5mg once per week). He also suggested changing my weekly Test regimen from 200mg once per week, to 150mg twice per week. He feels that upping the dose slightly and smoothing the curve will allow me to experience the positive effects of the therapy that have so far eluded me.

I know these guys are educated about the therapy, but I am slightly concerned about upping my Test dose before waiting to see if lowering my estrogen level with the Adex does the job for me. Opinions are appreciated.

Btw I've noted a curious side effect related to my gyno symptoms... a definite increase in the GF's fascination as of late with my chest (LOL). Have any of you guys experienced this???

Okay folks that's it for this week. Looking forward to any comments you may have. As always, stay well!

----------


## zaggahamma

> End of week 8 report. Week 9 began on Thursday (7/29)
> 
> The weekly protocol remains unchanged, however my Test vial which was supposed to contain 10 ml apparently contained only 8 1/2. (Was hoping it would at least be a full 9 ml). As a result I was only able to inject approx 80-90 mg yesterday. A new vial is on order and I'll make up the difference as soon as it arrives. 
> 
> 200mg Test Cyp (Thursday's)
> 300iu HCG 2x per week (Saturday and Tuesday, 600iu total)
> 
> Finished taking penicillin prescribed by dentist but it had no appreciable affect on the pain I've been experiencing. As a result I've been taking the 800mg ibuprofen at least twice per day to deal with the pain. The dentist has prescribed a new antibiotic which I'll be picking up today in the hope that I have a better response to it. Appt. with oral surgeon on August 5th will permanently solve the problem.
> 
> ...


might means she likes breasts...3 some introduction? smokin hot asian?...

lol...

on a serious note i agree with your concern....doesnt make sense to change TWO variables when youre still dialing in your treatment...did you tell them that you felt that way?

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## Jupiter2

Lol, Ya I'm thinking that might be it (her liking breasts). But threesomes and anything else is out of the question... I don't like sharing :P

And yes I did voice my concern to the rep. The one thing I am finding with regard to these clinics, or maybe it is just the one I've chosen to work with, is that it is a business first. In other words, it seems to be all about the money. While that may be great for some folks who are looking to these medications strictly for the physical benefits they confer, it does nothing for us folks who are doing them for health reasons. At this point I'm not willing to bet my life that my health is their greatest concern. Which makes self education all the more important.

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## zaggahamma

> Lol, Ya I'm thinking that might be it (her liking breasts). But threesomes and anything else is out of the question... I don't like sharing :P
> 
> And yes I did voice my concern to the rep. The one thing I am finding with regard to these clinics, or maybe it is just the one I've chosen to work with, is that it is a business first. In other words, it seems to be all about the money. While that may be great for some folks who are looking to these medications strictly for the physical benefits they confer, it does nothing for us folks who are doing them for health reasons. At this point I'm not willing to bet my life that my health is their greatest concern. Which makes self education all the more important.


that really does bring up a good point and i actually experienced that as well and have heard the same...this leads me to wonder how they stay in business(dea) if they can just write big doses and sell large quantities

----------


## subnet

Jup - again thanks for the continued updates! Do you have current test results of your total test levels when being on 200mg per week? Also, the 150mg 2 x per week is getting pretty high, but again without blood results we don't know... Maybe you need less and not more?

Jup and JPK - talking about clinics and their motives - this is one of the reasons I've been hesitant to switch from my Dr. to a clinic. He's not on my insurance's in-network plan so it does cost me quite a bit more to see him, but I KNOW he's trying to get me to the point where I am healthy. He prescribes the medication and I get it from the local pharmacy of my choice using insurance. The 'problem' with him is that he's extremely conservative overall, and also doesn't believe in HCG and I've been wanting to try it. Decisions, decisions...

That being said, I worry about the clinics especially since you have to buy the meds from them - how do we know if they're just 'selling' rather than trying to treat?

----------


## zaggahamma

> Jup - again thanks for the continued updates! Do you have current test results of your total test levels when being on 200mg per week? Also, the 150mg 2 x per week is getting pretty high, but again without blood results we don't know... Maybe you need less and not more?
> 
> Jup and JPK - talking about clinics and their motives - this is one of the reasons I've been hesitant to switch from my Dr. to a clinic. He's not on my insurance's in-network plan so it does cost me quite a bit more to see him, but I KNOW he's trying to get me to the point where I am healthy. He prescribes the medication and I get it from the local pharmacy of my choice using insurance. The 'problem' with him is that he's extremely conservative overall, and also doesn't believe in HCG and I've been wanting to try it. Decisions, decisions...
> 
> That being said, I worry about the clinics especially since you have to buy the meds from them - how do we know if they're just 'selling' rather than trying to treat?


yeh exactly....i was in the same boat when i got my primary to rx my test that was initiated by an endo i tried to get hcg then but he said i'd have to get from endo first...now, i see another primary that also continued my test script but i dont think she will know much about hcg....she'll prolly think i'm looking for it for some crazy diet...lol

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## Jupiter2

Sub, I've no bloodwork as of yet. Seeing my primary on Sept. 7 and will have her order it up. This way I'm pretty much assured that it will be covered by my insurance. I think it can wait another few weeks. Truth is I've been overly stubborn about the Adex because I really want to get a good idea of what my body is doing with the Test. There is no doubt in my mind that my estrogen is elevated. The bloodwork will surely confirm it.

If I toss aside the stubborness and take the Adex I feel strongly that my symptoms will disappear. That will obviously negate the need to increase my Test dosage.

JP I'm a big believer in using facts to make a sale. If your doctor doesn't know anything about it, then on your next visit bring her some material (scientific studies) to back your argument for its prescription. It's been my experience that the majority of endo's out there will refuse to treat our symptoms because in their minds our problems are simply a part of the aging process. If we were 18 years old and experiencing symptoms of hypogonadism there is no doubt in my mind that we would receive a more aggressive form of treatment.

Btw, I've just learned about a doctor here in Massachusetts who is actually at the forefront of testosterone therapy . Don't know if I can mention his name here but if you PM me I'll get it to you. The guy graduated magna cum-laude from Harvard and has been involved in researching the benefits of Testosterone for the last 30 years. He apparently has a clinic in the Boston area and believes that the treatment we are currently receiving will be the norm for males over 40 within the next 5 to 10 years. I'm planning on giving him a call tomorrow to see what he has to say about my treatment and to learn more about his philosophy. Will keep everyone informed.

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## zaggahamma

> Sub, I've no bloodwork as of yet. Seeing my primary on Sept. 7 and will have her order it up. This way I'm pretty much assured that it will be covered by my insurance. I think it can wait another few weeks. Truth is I've been overly stubborn about the Adex because I really want to get a good idea of what my body is doing with the Test. There is no doubt in my mind that my estrogen is elevated. The bloodwork will surely confirm it.
> 
> If I toss aside the stubborness and take the Adex I feel strongly that my symptoms will disappear. That will obviously negate the need to increase my Test dosage.
> 
> JP I'm a big believer in using facts to make a sale. If your doctor doesn't know anything about it, then on your next visit bring her some material (scientific studies) to back your argument for its prescription. It's been my experience that the majority of endo's out there will refuse to treat our symptoms because in their minds our problems are simply a part of the aging process. If we were 18 years old and experiencing symptoms of hypogonadism there is no doubt in my mind that we would receive a more aggressive form of treatment.
> 
> Btw, I've just learned about a doctor here in Massachusetts who is actually at the forefront of testosterone therapy. Don't know if I can mention his name here but if you PM me I'll get it to you. The guy graduated magna cum-laude from Harvard and has been involved in researching the benefits of Testosterone for the last 30 years. He apparently has a clinic in the Boston area and believes that the treatment we are currently receiving will be the norm for males over 40 within the next 5 to 10 years. I'm planning on giving him a call tomorrow to see what he has to say about my treatment and to learn more about his philosophy. Will keep everyone informed.


agree with trt being more known and possibly mainstream in the not to distant future and dont believe that 40 will be the criteria but symptoms by men of low T

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## MACHINE5150

my Dad had real low Testosterone levels and the doctor got him a prescription.. he feels great now.. working in the Garden at the age of 70.. i think people are too quick to rule out the use of testosterone for a cure to many problems that arise in an older male.

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## Jupiter2

Machine, I'm glad your dad is benefitting from the therapy. Seems like most men do once they get everything dialed in. I'm not quite there yet but am so looking forward to it.

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## Jupiter2

End of week 9 report. Week 10 began on Thursday (8/5)

The weekly protocol remains as follows: 

200mg Test Cyp (Thursday's)
300iu HCG 2x per week (Saturday and Tuesday, 600iu total)

Not much to report. Was only able to inject approx. .4mg of Test last week. Though I didn't expect to feel much of a difference due to an expected slow decline in Test levels, I was pretty much on an emotional roller coaster. Hot flashes returned on Tuesday, and reoccurred on Wednesday night and again last night. That's something that hasn't happened for weeks. Just further confirmation (IMO) of my estrogen levels being unacceptably high. I've decided to begin adding .5mg's of Adex once per week (on Monday's). If that fails to resolve the issue I will increase the dose to .5mg's twice per week (Sunday and Wednesday).

Gyno symptoms remain stable. Puffy nipples are still evident but very little tenderness. Irritability and moodiness still apparent, as is mid morning and mid afternoon sleepiness.

As you may recall the rep from my clinic advised increasing my Test dose to 150mg's twice per week. I've decided to hold off on that for a bit in the hopes that the Adex will resolve the issue of my not experiencing the sense of wellness that I feel I should be experiencing by now and the lack of libido.

For those who may be wondering, I have not yet been in contact with that doctor I discovered last week. Been pretty busy as of late. Will try to get to it first thing next week.

Okay folks that's it for this week. Looking forward to any comments you may have. As always, stay well!

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## Jupiter2

End of week 10 report. Week 11 began on Thursday (8/12)

The weekly protocol remains as follows: 

200mg Test Cyp (Thursday's)
300iu HCG 2x per week (Saturday and Tuesday, 600iu total)

Got my full dose in last Thursday and expected to be feeling a bit better afterward. By Monday estrogenic symptoms were driving me crazy (moodiness, sleepiness, no libido and recurring hot flashes in the evenings.) so I took my first capsule of Anastrozole (.5mg). Within a couple of days remaining nipple tenderness has disappeared, and what I thought was increasing breast tissue seems to be slowly melting away. Have noted an increase in urination and in appetite. Not sure if those are sides of the Anastrozole or an indicator of dropping estrogen levels. No change yet to moodiness, sleepiness or libido. After Test injection today I took a second dose of Anastrozole. Hopefully I'll begin to see a change in my libido by the weekend.

I have been working out every other day at home instead of the gym as I am quite nervous about inflaming the tendinitis in my left arm. Even though I am keeping the weights light I was expecting to see a wee bit more gain as a result of the Test. I'm hoping that will begin to change over the next week as a result of the lowering estrogen in my system.

Okay folks that's it for this week. Looking forward to any comments you may have. As always, stay well!

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## Jupiter2

End of week 11 report. Week 12 begins today (8/19)

The weekly protocol is as follows: 

200mg Test Cyp (Thursday's)
300iu HCG 2x per week (Saturday and Tuesday, 600iu total)
.5mg Anastrozole (Monday, Wednesday, Friday)

Original plan was to do the Anastrozole twice per week (Mondays and Thursday) but I was noticing the return of some nipple sensitivity yesterday. So I've decided to bump it up to 3 times per week until the symptoms subside. Libido is still in the dumps, but the mid morning and mid afternoon fatigue seems to be easing a bit. Moodiness and the occasional hot flashes seem to be in decline as well.

As I noted last week, my appetite has increased since I began using the anastrozole, don't know if this is a recognized side effect of the medication or an indicator of decreasing estrogen, but it is welcome nonetheless.

Have been pushing myself a little bit harder as far as the workouts go. I'm still working out at home and keeping the weights light as my left arm remains tender, but I am doing an extra set to force a bit more muscle fatigue. I am beginning to see some of the fruits of my labor. Nothing crazy of course but enough to let me know that the testosterone in my system is having some physiological effect on me.

Okay folks that's it for this week. Comments are, as always, welcome. Stay well!

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## Epic Ed

The 1/2 life of adex is about 56 hours. So, every two or three days is a good protocol. I found that smaller doses more frequently keeps me more stable than a large dose one or twice a week.

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## Jupiter2

Ya. I actually located a tidbit about it's half life yesterday. That's what convinced me to up the dosage to 3 times per week.

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## BillyBob210

The anastrozole had the same water loss effect on me the first couple of doses....just drink more water. I had a little weight (water) gain for a few days but it went away and I too am seeing the inceased breast tissue melt away. Hang in there Bro. I have backed off to .25 mg 2wk and it seems to be stablizing.

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## Jupiter2

Thanks for the replies guys  :Big Grin:

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## Jupiter2

End of week 13 report. Week 14 begins tomorrow (9/1)

My apologies for skipping my post last week. Went away for a few days.

My intended protocol for last week was the following: 

200mg Test Cyp (Thursday's)
300iu HCG 2x per week (Saturday and Tuesday, 600iu total)
.5mg Anastrozole (Monday, Wednesday, Friday, 1.5mg total)

On Wednesday (8/25) I got an email from the clinic's rep asking how everything was going. I replied that the physical symptoms of high estrogen levels had all but disappeared as a result of adding the anastrozole into my regimen, but that nothing else had changed. Libido was still in the dumps and mild fatigue was still present. At his request I sent him my protocol and as expected promptly received a somewhat terse email. He felt strongly that taking the .5mg of Anastrozole 3x per week was over doing it and was suppressing my hormone levels back to their original state. He felt that the "wash" effect being created could be countered if I increased my Test dose as the doctor had prescribed. (Doctor upped my prescription a couple of weeks ago from 200mg's once per week to 150mg's twice per week (total 300mg's) because I didn't seem to be responding as well as they had hoped to the original prescription.)

However, without bloodwork to confirm the need for that increase I opted (on my own) to keep my dosage at 200mg and begin the Anastrozole in the belief that lowering the estrogen in my body might just do the trick and negate the need for more Test. Just seemed to make sense.

As a result of that email I only took 2 capsules of Anastrozole last week (Mon. and Wed.) and have not experienced a need to take any more a full week later. My intent is to take them at this point only if symptoms develop that suggest they should be used.

If I adhere to the doctor's directions my protocol beginning next week should be as follows:

150mg Test Cypionate (2x per week Mon. & Thurs. 300mg total)
250iu HCG (2x per week Tues. & Sat. 500iu total)
.5mg Anastrozole (2x per week Sun. & Wed. 1mg total)

Will be seeing my primary tomorrow and will have her order the bloodwork (Rep. says I need to ask for a "Dr. Weston Male Panel.") I'll post the results as soon as I have them.

In the meantime I'd love to get some feedback.

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## zaggahamma

glad youre getting bloodwork soon..

i just did a search trying to see if i could find any positive benefits of snoring....COULDNT FIND A ONE.....all links and articles only mention negative sides

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## Epic Ed

If you are consistent with your test dose but inconsistent with your AI dose, you're going to bounce your E2 values all over the map. The key to successfully running an AI is to find the right dose that works for you to match the dose of test you're taking, and then run both consistently. The half life of Dex is about 56 hours if I recall correctly. Taking a dose every other day should give you predictable results.

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## Jupiter2

I was doing Monday, Wednesday, Friday and it definitely took care of the physical symptoms. But my capsules are at .50mg and the rep seemed to think that taking 3 per week was over doing it. The doctor originally prescribed it for twice per week but absent any gyno symptoms at this point I would really prefer to stay away from it; at least until I get the results of my bloodwork.

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## flatscat

> I was doing Monday, Wednesday, Friday and it definitely took care of the physical symptoms. But my capsules are at .50mg and the rep seemed to think that taking 3 per week was over doing it. The doctor originally prescribed it for twice per week but absent any gyno symptoms at this point I would really prefer to stay away from it; at least until I get the results of my bloodwork.


Look bro, it is your body, you know it better than anyone. I freakin hate adex, but had to take it when I started. Now I basically dont. You wont die if you stop, you may feel better or worse, but you can always start it back up again. I have always thought that the adex works to bring E2 down faster then your body can raise it when you are not on it. So go for it and let us know what happens and how you are feeling. And good luck.

Flats

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## Jupiter2

Ok gang just received the results of the bloodwork that was done last week. Without thinking I walked into the doctor's office without fasting, so cholesterol, glucose and creatnine levels were affected (although not reported here). I don't think the hormonal results could have been skewed by my forgetfulness but I could be wrong.

Estradiol

Ref. Range: 7.6 - 42.6
May 2010: 18.3
Sept. 2010: 46.8

FSH, Serum

Ref. Range: 1.5 - 12.4
May 2010: 1.4
Sept. 2010: 0.2

Free Testosterone (Direct)

Ref. Range: 6.8 - 21.5
May 2010: 6.3
Sept. 2010: 32.0

Serum Testosterone

Ref. Range: 280 - 800
May 2010: 275
Sept 2010: 1150

Some interesting results. My estrogen is somewhat surprising as I did not take any Anastrozole the week prior to the bloodwork, but the week prior to that took 1.5mg's in total. Some breast tenderness that began to appear this weekend resulted in my taking a capsule yesterday (Monday).

I do have a concern about my FSH. Is this result of the TRT?. I know that HMG is an option to treat this but my understanding is that it is quite expensive. What would be the alternatives?

Ok gang, looking at my numbers I'd like some input on where I should be going with my treatment. I see no reason to up my Test dosage to 300mg per week given the result of my bloodwork. It does appear that I need to bring my estrogen level down some but it isn't extraordinarily high. I'm still experiencing mid morning and mid afternoon fatigue and moodiness, and libido is still non existant but my workouts are yielding some positive results which is a great sign. What do you all think?

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## ds53

Im glad your insurance pays, because mine will not pay 1 dollar on my therapy. Good ole Blue Cross and Blue Shield. Had United before them and they were not any better.

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## Jupiter2

Actually I have yet to test my insurance. My original bloodwork was done at my expense. This time I had my GP order it instead of the clinic. I'm hoping that my insurance (United Health) will cover it without a problem.

There are many clinics and each of them offer different prices. I didn't want to begin seeking reimbursement for my prescriptions before I found a clinic that I was comfortable with. That may have meant I would have been hopping from one to another for a time and I'm sure I would have had difficulty explaining that to the insurance company.

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## Vettester

Jup, yeah it's pretty normal for the the LH/FSH area of pituitary to be suppressed with HRT. That score is usually pretty low to begin with if a person is secondary, and it usually only goes down even more after TRT is administered. I really wouldn't be too concerned with FSH _UNLESS_ you're looking to increase your chances for fertility. Is this the case? If not then I wouldn't be too concerned with it. 

LH on the other hand is a different story. I know you're using HCG , which mimics LH. Any issues with this product?

Your Total T and Free T is kind of up there, Jup! How are some of the other labs like the lipids, RBC, etc.? The body will sometimes respond negatively when levels get elevated, thus throwing things out of balance. Everyone responds differently, as you know, but I'm just wondering how your disposition would be if your scores were down a bit. You've got a lot more free "T" working for you than most guys, which is great until it starts working against you. Any thoughts about this on your end?

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## zaggahamma

> Ok gang just received the results of the bloodwork that was done last week. Without thinking I walked into the doctor's office without fasting, so cholesterol, glucose and creatnine levels were affected (although not reported here). I don't think the hormonal results could have been skewed by my forgetfulness but I could be wrong.
> 
> Estradiol
> 
> Ref. Range: 7.6 - 42.6
> May 2010: 18.3
> Sept. 2010: 46.8
> 
> FSH, Serum
> ...


taper the test doseage down to 200 maybe that will get you high normal and maybe control estradiol even a lil more
when you mention libido, when u see an as$ like megan fox u dont just want to consume that as$????

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## Jupiter2

Thanks for the responses guys.

Vette, The doctor did a comprehensive metabolic panel but the results were skewed because I didn't fast. Still my cholesterol was 30 points lower this time around which was a nice surprise. Guess the niacin is doing it's job. Will be adding some Red Yeast Rice and CoQ10 to that very soon. Blood pressure was excellent as well.

As far as how I feel about it all... I'd say it's a mixed bag for me. The bloodwork shows that I've now got an abundance of Test in my system and it appears to be helping my physical appearance but I cannot say that I've experienced a lift with regard to my mood. Also my libido is back in the pits after having observed a slight increase shortly after starting on the program. Regarding the HCG I'm still using the remainder of the first vial I obtained. As I haven't felt the tingling sensation in the nads that I experienced when I first began using the product, it has likely expired.

Though I'm definitely not in the market for another child at this point it is a great feeling to know that you can orgasm with the best of the porn stars lol. Since FSH is responsible for spermatogenesis an orgasm without any ejaculate just seems to take away from the experience so I intend on researching my options.

JP, I never upped my dosage to the 300mg as the doctor prescribed because I felt that was putting the horse before the cart without having the bloodwork to justify it. As far as Megan Fox goes she is one sexy gal but when I say my libido is dead atm, I really mean it's dead lol.

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## Vettester

Jup, the HCG is only good for 60 days at best. In fact, from what I've noticed it really starts to lose it's potency after 45 days. That's why I ended up going with 5,000iu vials. That's usually just about enough before I'm ready for a fresh vial.

My orgasms have gone off the charts with dialing in the right dose of HCG. It took about 4 weeks or so to really get cooking, but when it kicked in it really went to town. I'm guessing your HCG is just out of date and not working properly.

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## Jupiter2

Had this discussion with the rep from my clinic as I wanted to go with 5,000iu vials as well. Problem stems from the fact that my doctor still wants me to inject 1,000iu's once per week even though established thinking seems to suggest that over the long term this may not be beneficial. Btw the rep. suggested that the established thoughts concerning the shelf life of HCG are likely wrong as well.

I guess I'll discard the remainder of the HCG that I have and prepare the new one.

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## Vettester

Jup, that HCG protocol will just keep throwing you out of balance. Reduce the volume and increase the frequency and you will see better results.

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## Jupiter2

I'm currently doing 300iu's 2x per week for a total of 600. I think that is adequate. I'm hoping a fresh batch will turn things around for me. We shall see.

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## Vettester

My fingers are crossed with you!

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## Jupiter2

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## Jupiter2

End of week 14 report. Week 15 began Thursday (9/8)

My protocol for last week was the following: 

200mg Test Cyp (Thursday's)
300iu HCG 2x per week (Saturday and Tuesday, 600iu total)
.5mg Anastrozole (Monday)

Blood work results show that my decision to not increase my Test dose (against doctor's orders) to 300mg was a sound one. Test levels are more than adequate at this point. Estrogen levels are a bit on the high side but not extraordinarily so. As a result I intend to maintain my Anastrozole dosage at .5mg 1x per week until I have the blood work redone in another 8 weeks or so.

I discarded my old vial of HCG as I believe it had lost it's effectiveness. Injected my first dose from the new vial yesterday morning and by evening was experiencing what I can only describe as a dull ache in the "nads." Nothing uncomfortable mind you, just noticeable. I recall feeling this when I first began the HCG a few months ago. I guess this confirms that the old batch was definitely expired or it may just mean that I am an easy target for the placebo effect.

Sleeping through the night has become problematic for me once again over the last couple of weeks. I am still able to get up in the mornings with no difficulty however. Mid morning and mid afternoon fatigue is still occurring but moodiness seems to be stabilizing a bit. Libido remains noticeably absent from the therapy at this point but there is no doubt in my mind that household stress may be a contributing factor to that.

Workouts are going well but I continue to stay away from the gym as I fear that my strength increases will drive me beyond the limit of what my arm will allow. I am already noticing this at home during my workout routine. Body fat has dropped a bit but a cardio routine is needed at this point to accelerate the process and increase my stamina.

That's it for this week gang. Enjoy what's left of the weekend.

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