# STEROIDS FORUM > ANABOLIC STEROIDS - QUESTIONS & ANSWERS >  HGH vs Steroids

## toms402

i was thinking of taking steroids for a while now but lately iv been thinking about taking hgh. my question is what do you guys recommend? iv done research on roids but i dont know too much about hgh, i know it doesnt really have any side effects but hows muscle building compared to lets say test e. help would be appreciated.

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## bjpennnn

well they are two complelty different compounds.

What are your stats?
Age: ?
Height: ?
Weight: ?
BF%: ?
Cycle Exp: ?
PCT Knowledge: ?
Training Exp: ?
Diet: ?

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## vettewreck

For nothing more than money reasons alone, Id say gear. However, more solid, lean, and keepable (relatively speaking) gains come from using hgh. However faster, more instant gains come from gear. It takes months, if not years for hgh gains to show as the same gains would show from gear in only a few months time.

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## toms402

im 6 ft, 150, 20 year old, iv worked out but i got a really fast metabolism so i have to eat a lot more than your average person to gain weight, thats why im considering these options.

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## bjpennnn

bro you need to work on your diet. Gain 40 pounds then when your 24-25 look into a cycle.

Check out the diet section there is some great stickies in there that will help you.

Good luck on your journey.

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## toms402

lol i dont think you understand, i need to eat like 5000 calories a day to gain weight and i dont have the money for all that food plus im not trying to get roided up to 220 or something, im trying to get to like 175 and then do it natural from there. anyway im gonna do one of them either way.

iv tried to eat like 3000 calories a day for couple weeks and barely gained 5 pounds while working out hard, i got 3% body fat if that tells you anything about my metabolism.

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## Sector

> lol i dont think you understand, i need to eat like 5000 calories a day to gain weight and i dont have the money for all that food plus im not trying to get roided up to 220 or something, im trying to get to like 175 and then do it natural from there. anyway im gonna do one of them either way.
> 
> iv tried to eat like 3000 calories a day for couple weeks and barely gained 5 pounds while working out hard, i got 3% body fat if that tells you anything about my metabolism.


No you dont understand. If you cant gain weight without steroids you wont gain weight with them. Surplus of calories = Weight gain, regardless of AAS use.

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## bjpennnn

> No you dont understand. If you cant gain weight without steroids you wont gain weight with them. Surplus of calories = Weight gain, regardless of AAS use.


^^^ty ty

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## t-gunz

> No you dont understand. If you cant gain weight without steroids you wont gain weight with them. Surplus of calories = Weight gain, regardless of AAS use.



this is 100% correct. 

steroids will be a waste of money and do more harm then good to you.

post your diet in the diet section people will assist you.

wouldnt help to post training program too im sure that will be lagging too

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## toms402

if i cant gain weight without steroids than i cant gain weight with steroids? what kind of load of shit is that lol. i understand you guys are trying to be wise and tell me to wait but come on, eating a lot while working out in 2 weeks=5 pounds, now im pretty sure eating a lot while working out a lot while on steroids = more than 5 pounds haha, but tell me im wrong.

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## toms402

btw iv been on this site before and looked through all the diets and all that, and yes i know you have to eat a gram of protein per pound of body weight, iv known that type of stuff for years.

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## bjpennnn

well you are wrong hardgainers need 1.5-2 at least

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## tallguy21

your metabolism is probably fast like you say, but there are different ways of dieting that can help you gain weight and are different weight training programs you can do that will help with mass also.....if you're at 150 now and are trying for 175 that should be attainable with just diet and weights....heavy compound movements and a gram n a half of protein per lb of body weight, low reps, heavy eating should do the trick....what is your weight training like now? Having a fast metabolism isn't a great reason to go w/the gear at age 20...everybody in here isn't just trying to wise they're being wise...20 is young and it's not recommended to do it before 25, sometimes 30 depending on the scenario....you should check out some of the stickies in this forum...they're very helpful

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## bodybuilder

From the sound of it you might be eating a hole lot but of the wrong types of foods.

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## toms402

i eat anything and everything, it doesnt matter for me because i barely got any fat on me so for some of you who try not to eat doughnuts i can eat as many as i want cause it wont do anything for me. ok so no steroids but what about hgh? no one has talked about that yet, i know someone my age whos done one cycle and got a lot stronger in a bout a month.

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## bjpennnn

you are so far from hgh and steroids spend your money on more food.

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## toms402

dude im not trying to get your size, understand that already, im not trying to get to 180-190 natural and then use steroids to get to 230. its so easy for you guys to say this type of stuff cause you simply dont get how hard it really is for me to gain weigh naturally. my dad is 175 and hes 50, he was my weight my age so in 30 years hes gained 25 pounds? yea he never worked out but still that should tell you what kind of genes i have. again im gonna do one or the other eventually lol so if you cant provide any help as to the advantages of either one then dont brother posting.

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## t-gunz

ok well we have told you our honest opinion. but it does matter to you what we say

why it doesnt matter.

cause you got it in your head you need to take steroids to grow.

so basically your going to do it anyways.

unfortunately your the not the first person in this situation and you wont be the last.

hopefully you will make the right decision 

btw im not ripping you im telling you as i see it and im sure others do too

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## Far from massive

Along with all the obvious health risks,whatever you gain using steroids instead of nutrition will be lost as fast as it was gained for someone with a fast metabolism, youth etc the body will seek its "happy center" QUICKLY. Conversely by using strict diet and wieghtlifting you will have given your body a new assignment to which it will also adapt (by muscle mass gain).

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## 200gamblr

OK maybe this will help you. 

I'm 27 and have done around 6 cycles. I posted almost the exact same question on here when I was 23 and I got all the answers your getting and I thought what a bunch of tossers i'm gunna go and do it any way.So i went away and did both Gear and HGH. When i started my first cycle i weighed 149 pounds and because i never put on weight i cycled and ate whatever I wanted and at the end of 10 weeks on gear, HGH and eating as much as I could I gained 15 pounds (at best) I looked mad in my opinion and the HGH made me look very lean and ripped and I loved it. Move forward to 5-8 weeks after cycle (same training and eating) and I was down to 154 pounds. Was the biggest waste of money and effort. But i still didnt listen to the advise I got so I waited 10 weeks and then went and cycled again and doubled the dosage, gained weight lost it and then did it a third time increasing the dosage to 3 times the original amount (1000mg test pw and 4i.u HGH per day - any who weighs 150-160pounds and takes that much is stupid) finished up looked mad at first and kept the weight but guess what - now I was 25 and a FAT C*NT from slapping my body with test when it couldn't take it. Its taken me two years to get rid of it and I've only just started cycling again with different forms of gear based on the advice I received here. 

I think you should stop worrying about these guys telling you not to cycle and listen to what your being told (they know your gunna cycle anyway) - they arent telling you not to cycle but just do it properly. Get the diet thing down pat, research the types of gear and HGH (FYI ridiculously expensive) and then time it correctly in terms of your age or take it from me brother I got none of the sides that people normally get (pimples etc) but I F*cked it up big time and it took me 2 years to fix my body all cause I didnt wanna look in the diet section and see if what I was being told here about my body not being able to put on weight with AAS etc etc was correct. 

Having said all of that - do as you see fit.

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## Subotai

> lol i dont think you understand, i need to eat like 5000 calories a day to gain weight and i dont have the money for all that food plus im not trying to get roided up to 220 or something, im trying to get to like 175 and then do it natural from there. anyway im gonna do one of them either way.
> 
> iv tried to eat like 3000 calories a day for couple weeks and barely gained 5 pounds while working out hard, i got 3% body fat if that tells you anything about my metabolism.


You eat 3k a day and gain 5 pounds in a couple weeks? Thats not bad at all. I eat 4k a day (which I actually measure... so I know its 4k, and most people I have seen say these numbers who don't measure end up taking in about half of what they think they do) and I struggle to put on weight at all.
Also, what kind of measurements were you using to conclude you have 3% bodyfat?




> if i cant gain weight without steroids than i cant gain weight with steroids? what kind of load of shit is that lol. i understand you guys are trying to be wise and tell me to wait but come on, eating a lot while working out in 2 weeks=5 pounds, now im pretty sure eating a lot while working out a lot while on steroids = more than 5 pounds haha, but tell me im wrong.


If you eat less calories than you use for energy, you will not gain tissue weight. It doesn't matter if you are on 3 grams of test a week.

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## vettewreck

well this thread went the opposite direction I thought it was going to... LOL.... 

Food for thought man, I was 145lbs at YOUR AGE!!!! Look at my avatar pic, THATS ME, it CAN be done with food. I didnt get to this size by steroids . I got there with YEARS of eating, eating and eating, THEN i starting using stuff to "shape" me you could say. You have to eat every 2/3 hours, period. Alternate meal, shake, meal, shake, ect. 6-8 times per day FOR YEARS. You said it yourself, you gained 5lbs of eating in only several weeks. Now multiply that by a year. Youre at your goal. Done.

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## SlimmerMe

Hey OP....here is the deal: at 20 you already have a ton of natural growth hormone production and to take HGH at this age could really really mess with your natural pulse and have a negative effect on your endocrine system for a long time which could lead to LOW IGF-1 levels which is counterintuitive to what you want....please try to wait until you need HGH which would be around age 30....this is way too risky...

as far as steroids at age 20....again..you already have A LOT of hormones now...more than most members here...TAKE this edge and work with it naturally and you will come out way ahead with a great base.....as far as steroids at 20...do you want to potentially have ED at 20? I doubt it....this is a real reality with PCT....so....please try to stay away from steroids until your mid-20's when you have fully developed .... you are still not totally formed yet believe it or not..

I know you are anxious...I hear you....just think about what goes up....must come down...

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## toms402

how big did you get before you started using and how old were you? the question is to vettewreck.

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## baseline_9

Toms you dont need AAS or HGH to reach ur goals

You need food!

Isnt that obvious, u gained 5lbs in 2 weeks, most guys dream of that

Here is a simple formula for u to work by, it will work for everyone

Want to gain weight = eat more
Want to loose weight = eat less

It is a never ending cycle, eat more, then u mist eat more and more and more etc...

If u cant gain weight now with ur current diet any gains made on AAS's will be lost shortly after the AAS's are discontinued

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## toms402

5 pounds in 2 weeks is not a lot, i know people who gained 20 pounds in a month naturally and didnt as much as i did. ok so imagine im 25, now can i get some different answers lol.

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## FuzzyPeaches o.O

I think we are just wasting our breath on this one.. Obviously Toms has already made up his mind and despite the clear and on point advice given he will have to learn the hard way.

It is simple, if you want to weigh 180 then you have to eat like a 180 pounder. Do you think you are the 1st person to come here and say "No matter how much I eat I cannot gain weight!"? I would put money up that if you posted an HONEST daily diet for yourself there would be many things wrong with it. The key to that statement is you being honest though, which we all know you are already biased towards using AAS. GL!

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## vettewreck

> how big did you get before you started using and how old were you? the question is to vettewreck.


I got to 218lbs NATURALLY before. I know you dont want to get that big but you should clearly see my point. And 5lbs in 2 weeks is a ton. You have a very narrow mind and you refuse to look outside the box... based on all your replys ive read. Sorry bro just saying. Eating every 2/3 hours is key. Not "always" how much I ate today at 3 different meals.

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## Subotai

> 5 pounds in 2 weeks is not a lot, i know people who gained 20 pounds in a month naturally and didnt as much as i did. ok so imagine im 25, now can i get some different answers lol.


5 pounds in 2 weeks is 10 pounds a month. Continue for 1 year and thats 120 pounds of weight gained

Lets even consider that the gains will eventually slow, we'll cut it down to .5 pounds per week
Half a pound a week- in 2 years that will still be 52 pounds gained. Thats incredible, and a pace that any of us would dream of.
You act like your situation is bad, but it just isn't man, be happy about it.

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## Hazard

I weighed in at 175lbs wet in HS...... I ate everything under the sun..... i'm talking $30 worth of McDonalds food every other day and I couldn't gain anything.... not even fat. 

Once I started eating the right foods..... my body exploded. It took me a little while to get to 200lbs but I did it. I also ran a couple cycles before my diet was up to speed and i put on some weight but I lost every single pound of it once I stopped.

I'm not going to tell you that you can't run a cycle.... you can do what you want. What happens to you because of your lack of reasoning is none of my concern - it's not going to make me lose sleep at night. Is it a good idea for you to cycle? Nope..... Because you don't need steroids to reach 175lbs. That weight can be easilly obtained naturally by MOST people. It just takes time and dedication......

If you're hell bent on running a cycle - then so be it but don't be too proud to come back and tell everyone how it went. It's a great influence whenever someone goes against the grain..... fails..... and then comes back to help teach the correct way.

~Haz~

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## vettewreck

> and then comes back to help teach the INcorrect way.
> 
> ~Haz~


Fixed it for ya lol

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## toms402

> 5 pounds in 2 weeks is 10 pounds a month. Continue for 1 year and thats 120 pounds of weight gained
> 
> Lets even consider that the gains will eventually slow, we'll cut it down to .5 pounds per week
> Half a pound a week- in 2 years that will still be 52 pounds gained. Thats incredible, and a pace that any of us would dream of.
> You act like your situation is bad, but it just isn't man, be happy about it.


we all know the gains eventually slow down, just cause i gained 5 pounds in 2 weeks doesnt mean its gonna continue like that, everyone knows that.

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## vettewreck

true, but youre so far behind your growing curve, yours wont slow down for a long time. Why do you continue to argue with everyones point on here and why do you continue to not look at this from anyones point of view but your own? Even if it takes just a measily 5 months to slow down, youre still up 40-50lbs. I mean wtf do you not get?? Im not being mean but dude open your mind, stop being so close minded.

Oh and I was about 24y/o before I started using. And looking back, I was TOO YOUNG.

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## Blade15

> how big did you get before you started using and how old were you? the question is to vettewreck.


I am thinking of doing my first cycle... i am 5'4'' and 161 pounds... i need to get at least 170 to start a cycle... you are 6' and just 150 pounds WTF????? Learn to eat for 3/4 years then come back and ask question on AAS...and listen to these guys they are experienced users...

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## toms402

> I am thinking of doing my first cycle... i am 5'4'' and 161 pounds... i need to get at least 170 to start a cycle... you are 6' and just 150 pounds WTF????? Learn to eat for 3/4 years then come back and ask question on AAS...and listen to these guys they are experienced users...


there they go again, you dont know me dude, i probably eat just as much as you do.

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## toms402

> true, but youre so far behind your growing curve, yours wont slow down for a long time. Why do you continue to argue with everyones point on here and why do you continue to not look at this from anyones point of view but your own? Even if it takes just a measily 5 months to slow down, youre still up 40-50lbs. I mean wtf do you not get?? Im not being mean but dude open your mind, stop being so close minded.
> 
> Oh and I was about 24y/o before I started using. And looking back, I was TOO YOUNG.


the fact that you think i can gain 40, 50 pounds in 5, 6 months is beyond ridiculous. i maybe could gain that much with steroids , and thats a big maybe. look you dont know my body and you havent seen many people with my type of body just like you havent seen 6 ft 20 year olds that are 400 pounds. why dont you stop trying to convince me already? iv been this weight since i was 15 and i cant stand it, iv worked out for 3, 4 months at a time before taking protein and barely got any gains but lost them when i stopped working out. all i wanted in this thread is some help with hgh, im not naive man iv done research on both and i know its not gonna do any harm to me, yes i know its better if i wait a few years but i know 1 cycle of either one especially hgh isnt gonna **** me up lol. i just wanted to see if any of you have used hgh and to explain from your point of view.

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## SlimmerMe

go to the HGH forum...and see what they tell you.....I bet...the SAME! TOO EARLY!!!! way too EARLY! nobody here is going to advise you to take HGH at 20 years old.....

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## V-ROID

If you can afford REAL HGH then you can afford your own personal chef...

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## vettewreck

> look you dont know my body and you havent seen many people with my type of body


I was you. I already stated that. Infact, I was 6' and 145, 5lbs SMALLER than you.



> im not naive man iv done research on both and i know its not gonna do any harm to me


Umm... LOL... Clearly youve done NO research.



> i can gain 40, 50 pounds in 5, 6 months is beyond ridiculous. i maybe could gain that much with steroids


Again, clearly youve done no research. You will NEVER gain 40+lbs even on gear.

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## Hazard

Have you had X-rays done to see if your growth plates have fused? If not.... how do you know the HGH wont do any harm?

You're not going to get advice on how to cycle..... you are too young and you don't know how to eat or train properly..... hence your problem gaining weight. I was in your situation also..... you can't bullshit a bullshitter. 

Go ahead and acquire your gear.... run a cycle..... and fvck yourself up. Then lose all your gains..... and come back here to ask us what we think went wrong. You've been advised..... now be on your way.....

~Haz~

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## SlimmerMe

^^^^^nothing beats "TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE!".....look at HAZ! look at him! does he look like a skinny guy? NOPE! 

PLEASE try to take the wisdom from these guys....they have been around the block...they really have. Think of this: what if one day you saw a 3 year old boy on a high rise balcony about to scale the walls up to the roof..and then you yelled..."HEY KID!!!! What are you doing?" and the kid answered with..."I am Spider Man!....i know what I am doing".....but...he did not listen....because....for some odd reason... you remind him of his father...

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## toms402

> I was you. I already stated that. Infact, I was 6' and 145, 5lbs SMALLER than you.
> 
> Umm... LOL... Clearly youve done NO research.
> 
> Again, clearly youve done no research. You will NEVER gain 40+lbs even on gear.


actually at one point i was 6 ft 135 so no you dont, but last time i weighed my self i was working out a lot eating a lot taking protein creatine and i was 148, who knows now im probably around 135 again. you definitely misquoted me on one part, this is what i said ( the fact that you think i can gain 40, 50 pounds in 5, 6 months is beyond ridiculous. i maybe could gain that much with steroids , and thats a big maybe) you said i could gain 40 to 50 naturally in 5, 6 months lol which is bullshit. and i said maybe i can gain that much with steroids and thats a big maybe, dont use my words out of context. i have done research a lot actually lol, show me a case of someone who took 1 cycle of roids at age 20 and got ****ed up, i challenge you to find me one.

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## toms402

> ^^^^^nothing beats "TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE!".....look at HAZ! look at him! does he look like a skinny guy? NOPE! 
> 
> PLEASE try to take the wisdom from these guys....they have been around the block...they really have. Think of this: what if one day you saw a 3 year old boy on a high rise balcony about to scale the walls up to the roof..and then you yelled..."HEY KID!!!! What are you doing?" and the kid answered with..."I am Spider Man!....i know what I am doing".....but...he did not listen....because....for some odd reason... you remind him of his father...


yea because im gonna die off of 1 cycle haha.

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## baseline_9

If ur so sure ur ready to cycle could you please post up ur diet

If ur diet looks sound im sure everyone will just leave u to do what u want

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## SlimmerMe

sadly to say--but one cycle of roids will not be the end which is what I am afraid of with this attitude of wanting more and more and more....more weight..more gains..more muscle..more more more.......and if you want to take HGH....that is at least a 6 month committment....so....back to square one....TOO EARLY!!!...

Let me say this: out of every single thing I have learned around here there is one huge common thread....*THERE IS NO QUICK FIX!* I have your opposite problem, and the more I hang out here... the more I get into my head this: IT TAKES A LOT OF HARD DEDICATED WORK and if it were easy....then everybody would do it! *The easier something looks...the harder it is...this is a FACT!*

*POST YOUR DIET!!!!* and let the guys help you there first.....go from there---like the above post mentioned

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## Hazard

Anyone who says you're going to die from one cycle is retarded..... unless you seriously do something so epicly stupid. It's not death that people are warning you about. One cycle of steroids can fvck up your endocrine system, you can fuse your growth plates, you can fvck up your testosterone levels .

Is one cycle even worth it? Lets say your natty test levels are a 900 on a scale from 300-1000. You decide to run a cycle and put your levels up over 2500...... sounds great..... for now. Now you end your cycle and run pct..... you go back to get bloodwork and your natty test levels are at 450..... If you thought gaining weight was hard before..... ahahaha you better be ready for 10x the hard work when you come off. Could you run a cycle and come out of it 100% fine..... absolutely. Could you run a cycle and come out of it completely fvcked up...... ABSOLUTELY. It's a risk/benefit thing and if you really think it's worth the risk for 15lbs in a couple months..... then go for it. 

~Haz~

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## vettewreck

Im not even going to bother with you anymore. Clearly you know more than me. Youre a joke. Done.

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## Reed

Lets just see what you are eating first?

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## vaders4

We'll never see what he's eating, because he doesn't have a diet. He's a skinny kid who "has a big appetite!" and thinks he can't grow.

I was you, ignorant and naive but most of all - skinny. 

Had a huge appetite yet couldn't gain weight. 

Then I came to this forum and something magical happened, I learned how to eat. In two years I went from 155lbs to 180lbs (@ 6ft). At one point I weighed as much as 188lbs without ever touching a steroid .

Have fun with your cycle, let us know when you learn how to eat.

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## toms402

> We'll never see what he's eating, because he doesn't have a diet. He's a skinny kid who "has a big appetite!" and thinks he can't grow.
> 
> I was you, ignorant and naive but most of all - skinny. 
> 
> Had a huge appetite yet couldn't gain weight. 
> 
> Then I came to this forum and something magical happened, I learned how to eat. In two years I went from 155lbs to 180lbs (@ 6ft). At one point I weighed as much as 188lbs without ever touching a steroid .
> 
> Have fun with your cycle, let us know when you learn how to eat.


25 lbs in 2 years is not a lot. i could probably do that if i start eating a lot more.

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## 200gamblr

Toms the argument here seems to be whether you can gain the weight by eating or do you need AAS and HGH. So do every one a favor, post your diet and pics if you got some and let the pro's on here who have been eating a cycling for years to have a look at it and see if there is anything wrong with it. FYI before you dismiss this thought - as stated previously I did the same thing your doing and then went and smacked the gear any way so I know what you feel like.

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## baseline_9

This kid confuses me

He says i cant gain weight,yet gaines 5lbs in 2weeks!

Why dont u just see what u can gain by eating u fool

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## baseline_9

> 25 lbs in 2 years is not a lot. i could probably do that if i start eating a lot more.


As a natural that would be good going

If u could do it why dont u LOL

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## Blade15

> there they go again, you dont know me dude, i probably eat just as much as you do.


Then why you are still 150 pounds...i think what you eat you just loose it in toilet  :Big Grin: ....work hard baby... 150 pounds for 6 foot... thats grossssssss man... you must be looking like matchstick bro.......

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## lovbyts

> there they go again, you dont know me dude, i probably eat just as much as you do.


I know you. You are the same kid who comes in here 3x a day saying the exact same things as you have said. Hard gainer, diet is NOT the problem, my friends this and that. LOL 

You are a clone of 90% of the other 20 yr olds who come here looking for what to take but wont listen to anyone who tries to honestly help you gain solid keepable gains/muscle.

We will see you again, during your cycle when you are crying that your PCT hasnt arrived yet and what to do, when you have ED issues due to not having a real PCT, when you ask if your gear is bunk because you arent gaining or when you are proud of the 10 lbs of water/fat you have gained and then loose it all a few weeks later. LOL

I know you....

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## 200gamblr

still waiting to see your diet and pics bro - its the only way your gunna win this argument. You seem pretty sure of yourself so why not back it up?

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## Blade15

> 25 lbs in 2 years is not a lot. i could probably do that if i start eating a lot more.


then why HELL you stop? start eating...for 4 years more without getting in here boy..... man i hate these impatient retards who just want big muscles in no time.... haahahahahaha ...and just to show off....scoring girls...thats f***ing bullshit bro..... grow up mate...grow up...face the fact... if you cant eat...you cant grow no matter what AAS you take no matter what you do....Simple - IF YOU CAN'T EAT YOU CAN'T GROW...LEARN TO EAT...THATS YOR CYCLE....CYCLE OF EATING.... :Smilie:

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## V8Assassin

I have read this entire thread now, and WOW. Toms, you are one hard headed dude. There have been guys telling you over and over they were in the same postition as you and giving you good advice, but you seem determined to go at it your way. I say go for it, and when you realize the truth maybe you won't have screwed up your endo system too bad or have wasted too much time. That way you can come back here and tell everyone they were right! 

Seriously, if you can't post a diet, you are not ready for AAS. Simple as that. You seem to have the impression that AAS will make it easier. I hate to tell you, but nothing could be further from the truth. I see/hear many people who think all it takes is a shot in the glutes and magically you will become big. They are wrong, this game gets harder with each shot. You are complaining about gaining five pounds in two weeks...........Dude, I wish to God I could stack on five pounds of lean muscle that fast. I would take 25lbs of muscle over two years with gear! Let me ask you this, how many bags of chicken (3lb bags) do you eat in a week, how many cups of oatmeal, how many ozs of water everyday, how do you split fats/carbs throughout the day, how many ozs of lean steak, how many cups of rice, how many ozs of sweet potatoes. I know say you eat alot, but eating junk doesn't do any good, in fact it stops your body from being able to absorb the good things you are eating. I believe it is Cutler who always says "if you eat like crap, you will look like crap". Remember that when you sit down with a doughnut, or a bag full of fast food.

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## toms402

> I have read this entire thread now, and WOW. Toms, you are one hard headed dude. There have been guys telling you over and over they were in the same postition as you and giving you good advice, but you seem determined to go at it your way. I say go for it, and when you realize the truth maybe you won't have screwed up your endo system too bad or have wasted too much time. That way you can come back here and tell everyone they were right! 
> 
> Seriously, if you can't post a diet, you are not ready for AAS. Simple as that. You seem to have the impression that AAS will make it easier. I hate to tell you, but nothing could be further from the truth. I see/hear many people who think all it takes is a shot in the glutes and magically you will become big. They are wrong, this game gets harder with each shot. You are complaining about gaining five pounds in two weeks...........Dude, I wish to God I could stack on five pounds of lean muscle that fast. I would take 25lbs of muscle over two years with gear! Let me ask you this, how many bags of chicken (3lb bags) do you eat in a week, how many cups of oatmeal, how many ozs of water everyday, how do you split fats/carbs throughout the day, how many ozs of lean steak, how many cups of rice, how many ozs of sweet potatoes. I know say you eat alot, but eating junk doesn't do any good, in fact it stops your body from being able to absorb the good things you are eating. I believe it is Cutler who always says "if you eat like crap, you will look like crap". Remember that when you sit down with a doughnut, or a bag full of fast food.


when i was working out i tried to eat a gram of protein per pound of body weight everyday, the rest was what ever i wanted to eat. you people keep talking about junk food and i keep telling you it doesnt do anything to me, if anything it should add some fat but it doesnt. i dont have a strict diet that i go by cause like i said i dont have the money for all that now. il tell you what my last 2 meals were, last night at around 1 rughly i had a buck double, chicken sandwich, fries, bout hour later some ice cream with oreos. this morning at like 11 an omelet and just recently i ate some potatoes. i dont know what im gonna eat in a few hours but im gonna eat something but im not working out now so i dont see why it matters.

----------


## toms402

> then why HELL you stop? start eating...for 4 years more without getting in here boy..... man i hate these impatient retards who just want big muscles in no time.... haahahahahaha ...and just to show off....scoring girls...thats f***ing bullshit bro..... grow up mate...grow up...face the fact... if you cant eat...you cant grow no matter what AAS you take no matter what you do....Simple - IF YOU CAN'T EAT YOU CAN'T GROW...LEARN TO EAT...THATS YOR CYCLE....CYCLE OF EATING....


lol thats 12 lbs in a year, come on dude be real. again you dont know me, you think i want big muscles to show off? iv said it repeatedly i dont want to be 240 roided up like most of you here, i want to be normal weight at around 180 to 200 eventually. being my weight isnt normal just being 300 at 20 isnt normal, now im sure the person who weighs 300 wants to lose weight to look normal like i want to gain it to look normal.

----------


## toms402

> I know you. You are the same kid who comes in here 3x a day saying the exact same things as you have said. Hard gainer, diet is NOT the problem, my friends this and that. LOL 
> 
> You are a clone of 90% of the other 20 yr olds who come here looking for what to take but wont listen to anyone who tries to honestly help you gain solid keepable gains/muscle.
> 
> We will see you again, during your cycle when you are crying that your PCT hasnt arrived yet and what to do, when you have ED issues due to not having a real PCT, when you ask if your gear is bunk because you arent gaining or when you are proud of the 10 lbs of water/fat you have gained and then loose it all a few weeks later. LOL
> 
> I know you....


those other 90% of kids arent my size i guarantee you that, not only that but they probably want to look like you at some point in time, not me.

----------


## HitIt

6' 150 at 3% ? i'll believe that when i see a pic of you holding a note that says "hitit loves me"....until then you are another dime a dozen under nourished kid who thinks he "eats like a horse" or you have a thyroid problem or your workouts are aerobic...

----------


## Hazard

> when i was working out i tried to eat a gram of protein per pound of body weight everyday, the rest was what ever i wanted to eat. you people keep talking about junk food and i keep telling you it doesnt do anything to me, if anything it should add some fat but it doesnt. i dont have a strict diet that i go by cause like i said i dont have the money for all that now. il tell you what my last 2 meals were, last night at around 1 rughly i had a buck double, chicken sandwich, fries, bout hour later some ice cream with oreos. this morning at like 11 an omelet and just recently i ate some potatoes. i dont know what im gonna eat in a few hours but im gonna eat something but im not working out now so i dont see why it matters.


#1 - you want to cycle to gain weight but you arent working out!? OK..... so i'm assuming you're going to start working out when you do your 1st injection right? well guess what..... you're body wont be ready for the strength increases and you're going to end up tearing something.

#2 - You're diet is complete garbage. I don't eat 100% clean like some guys..... I don't need to. HOWEVER - I eat a shit ton of chicken, brown rice, egg whites, oats..... etc. The only junk I eat is MAYBE some ice cream or a fast food meal once in a blue moon. 

You're never going to gain any kind of good weight eating the way you are now. You need a regimented diet..... lots of egg whites and chicken...... lots and lots of oatmeal and other carbs. Christ..... even instant oatmeal would be better for you. Lastly..... you'll never put on any kind of muscle if you aren't working out. I have no idea wtf you're thinkin here.....

No one is saying you should look like a bodybuilder but you have wayyyyy more to learn before you do some real damage to yourself. Open up your mind a little bit and just listen......

~Haz~

----------


## V8Assassin

> when i was working out i tried to eat a gram of protein per pound of body weight everyday, the rest was what ever i wanted to eat. you people keep talking about junk food and i keep telling you it doesnt do anything to me, if anything it should add some fat but it doesnt. i dont have a strict diet that i go by cause like i said i dont have the money for all that now. il tell you what my last 2 meals were, last night at around 1 rughly i had a buck double, chicken sandwich, fries, bout hour later some ice cream with oreos. this morning at like 11 an omelet and just recently i ate some potatoes. i dont know what im gonna eat in a few hours but im gonna eat something but im not working out now so i dont see why it matters.


Are you not reading the responses or can you simply not understand what is being said. One gram of protein is enough to maintain, not gain anything. You must up that to 1.5 to 2 grams of protein per lb of body weight, and those NEED to be clean sources such as chicken, whey, steak, tuna, tilapia. We keep talking about junk food and telling you it is NOT going to help you gain. Most of it is empty calories that just end up in the toliet and blocks your digestive system from being able to absorb other good, clean foods at a normal rate. 

Newsflash, eating clean is not expensive. Chicken, oatmeal, rice (brown and white), potatoes (sweet and white), and ground beef are all cheap. It doesn't take a bunch of money to eat clean, just DISCIPLINE. 

How about this, my last meals were as follows....7pm last night 12oz of chicken breast w/2cup of white rice, 20oz water. 8pm whey protein shake (50 grams). 9pm repeat 12 oz chicken/rice/water. 10pm whey protein shake (25grams). 11pm repeat 12 oz chicken/rice/water. Bedtime shake of casein/whey for 50 grams. This morning 7:30am, 2 cups oatmeal, 8 egg whites/2whole eggs, cup of yogurt, 20 oz water. 9am whey protein shake. 11am 12oz chicken, 2 cups brown rice, water. 1 pm repeat, and now I am getting ready to start my pre-workout nutrition..................STILL THINK YOU EAT ALOT????

You are not even scratching the surface when it comes to eating. When's the last time you force fed yourself????

Oh yeah, keep not working out and jump on the gear, shoulder/elbow/knee/hip surgery is cheap and easy to recover from...... :Aajack: 











> #1 - you want to cycle to gain weight but you arent working out!? OK..... so i'm assuming you're going to start working out when you do your 1st injection right? well guess what..... you're body wont be ready for the strength increases and you're going to end up tearing something.
> 
> #2 - You're diet is complete garbage. I don't eat 100% clean like some guys..... I don't need to. HOWEVER - I eat a shit ton of chicken, brown rice, egg whites, oats..... etc. The only junk I eat is MAYBE some ice cream or a fast food meal once in a blue moon. 
> 
> You're never going to gain any kind of good weight eating the way you are now. You need a regimented diet..... lots of egg whites and chicken...... lots and lots of oatmeal and other carbs. Christ..... even instant oatmeal would be better for you. Lastly..... you'll never put on any kind of muscle if you aren't working out. I have no idea wtf you're thinkin here.....
> 
> No one is saying you should look like a bodybuilder but you have wayyyyy more to learn before you do some real damage to yourself. Open up your mind a little bit and just listen......
> 
> ~Haz~



If you are not going to listen to this guy, you need to find someone, somewhere else to tell you what you want to hear. 

Good Luck....

----------


## SlimmerMe

Want Andropause ? ED?..at 20? *you are in your sexual peak you lucky dog*. Why on earth would you want to mess with that? please explain why you are willing to take this risk by not listening to these guys. I do not understand your reasoning... and I am serious. 

Do you feel too skinny and think people are talking behind your back? Do you have a gal you want to impress with being bigger? Are you embarrassed by your size? What is making you so determined? *Something is driving this urge to gain...something you are not sharing with us.* You said you do not want to be like some of the huge guys here...but then again...you want to mimic what you assume they are doing to get big. *All of us here are on your side*...we really are eventhough you might think we are not. This place is full of help. The more you tell us....the more help will be on the way. WHAT IS UNDERNEATH THIS URGE?

----------


## toms402

> #1 - you want to cycle to gain weight but you arent working out!? OK..... so i'm assuming you're going to start working out when you do your 1st injection right? well guess what..... you're body wont be ready for the strength increases and you're going to end up tearing something.
> 
> #2 - You're diet is complete garbage. I don't eat 100% clean like some guys..... I don't need to. HOWEVER - I eat a shit ton of chicken, brown rice, egg whites, oats..... etc. The only junk I eat is MAYBE some ice cream or a fast food meal once in a blue moon. 
> 
> You're never going to gain any kind of good weight eating the way you are now. You need a regimented diet..... lots of egg whites and chicken...... lots and lots of oatmeal and other carbs. Christ..... even instant oatmeal would be better for you. Lastly..... you'll never put on any kind of muscle if you aren't working out. I have no idea wtf you're thinkin here.....
> 
> No one is saying you should look like a bodybuilder but you have wayyyyy more to learn before you do some real damage to yourself. Open up your mind a little bit and just listen......
> 
> ~Haz~


i would workout for a few months before i would a cycle, i know i cant just do it now again iv done research how many ****en times have i said that? IM NOT WORKING OUT NOW, and you guys call me hard headed when you dont even comprehend what i say. i never i said i ate clean, i said i ate a lot. just between last night at 1 and now iv prob ate almost 2000 calories cause i just had another meal. what you people are telling me is contradicting from what i heard from other people at the gym and internet research. everyone who gave me advice told me for someone with my size to eat anything and everything, but to make sure i get in the protein and thats what i did and it makes sense if i want to get bigger. those people who eat clean are people who wants to be super cut, im already skinny and i dont need to eat fat less chicken or what ever.

----------


## toms402

> Want Andropause ? ED?..at 20? *you are in your sexual peak you lucky dog*. Why on earth would you want to mess with that? please explain why you are willing to take this risk by not listening to these guys. I do not understand your reasoning... and I am serious. 
> 
> Do you feel too skinny and think people are talking behind your back? Do you have a gal you want to impress with being bigger? *Are you embarrassed by your size? What is making you so determined?* *Something is driving this urge to gain...something you are not sharing with us.* You said you do not want to be like some of the huge guys here...but then again...you want to mimic what you assume they are doing to get big. *All of us here are on your side*...we really are eventhough you might think we are not. This place is full of help. The more you tell us....the more help will be on the way. WHAT IS UNDERNEATH THIS URGE?


OF COURSE, i dont feel a male should look really skinny, its like a pride thing. its not about looking big and bad man trust me.

----------


## toms402

> 6' 150 at 3% ? i'll believe that when i see a pic of you holding a note that says "hitit loves me"....until then you are another dime a dozen under nourished kid who thinks he "eats like a horse" or you have a thyroid problem or your workouts are aerobic...


you dont got to believe me man haha.

----------


## SlimmerMe

> OF COURSE, i dont feel a male should look really skinny, its like a pride thing. its not about looking big and bad man trust me.


WHO ELSE THINKS YOU ARE SKINNY???...other than you?

----------


## toms402

> WHO ELSE THINKS YOU ARE SKINNY???...other than you?


lol thats like asking a fat guy who else thinks your fat besides you, um everyone haha.

----------


## SlimmerMe

I am not kidding...who else? someone in particular?

----------


## Blade15

> lol thats 12 lbs in a year, come on dude be real. again you dont know me, you think i want big muscles to show off? iv said it repeatedly i dont want to be 240 roided up like most of you here, i want to be normal weight at around 180 to 200 eventually. being my weight isnt normal just being 300 at 20 isnt normal, now im sure the person who weighs 300 wants to lose weight to look normal like i want to gain it to look normal.


Then you don't belong in here :Smilie:  go to diet section...again LEARN TO DIET LITTLE BOY  :Big Grin:

----------


## Blade15

> lol thats like asking a fat guy who else thinks your fat besides you, um everyone haha.


NO ONE HERE WITH 6 foot IN HEIGHT WEIGHS AS SAME AS YOU....check out boy.... I think i was right you loose all of your food in toilet by backdoor  :Big Grin: ...You have work hard on training... :Smilie:

----------


## vaders4

Stop feeding the troll.

----------


## Hazard

> i would workout for a few months before i would a cycle, i know i cant just do it now again iv done research how many ****en times have i said that? IM NOT WORKING OUT NOW, and you guys call me hard headed when you dont even comprehend what i say. i never i said i ate clean, i said i ate a lot. just between last night at 1 and now iv prob ate almost 2000 calories cause i just had another meal. what you people are telling me is contradicting from what i heard from other people at the gym and internet research. everyone who gave me advice told me for someone with my size to eat anything and everything, but to make sure i get in the protein and thats what i did and it makes sense if i want to get bigger. those people who eat clean are people who wants to be super cut, im already skinny and i dont need to eat fat less chicken or what ever.


lord..... give me strength......

There is so much processed crap in fast food that YOUR BODY DOESNT ABSORB THE NUTRIENTS!

I don't eat clean to stay "cut" - I eat clean to gain weight! I understand this is something that you are just un-able to comprehend at the moment - i'm really trying to see this from your point of view but DAMNIT it's hard.....

Another thing..... Aparantly i'm hard headed because I just can't believe that you aren't working out NOW but you have in the past and you will in the future. EVEN if you safely ran a cycle..... you'd have to keep working out and eating to maintain what you gained. You clearly wont do that.....so why bother?

Some people just need to come clean with themselves. You don't have what it takes to add any kind of significant weight. You don't even have what it takes to put on 15 fvckin pounds. There's nothing wrong with not being able to stick to a diet or a training regiment - just accept who you are and build on that. If you decide that you want to change your ways..... I will be more than happy to help you with a diet. If not..... atleast learn to respect yourself.

~Haz~

----------


## toms402

> I am not kidding...who else? someone in particular?


oh no its not like im doing it for someone else man, no one like gives me a hard time about being skinny, but most people have acknowledged it. like bro why are you so skinny? but even if no one did i would still want to change my body.

----------


## baseline_9

This thread is so amusing LOL

I just hope it doesnt get closed soon 

This kid is a joke

----------


## toms402

> Then you don't belong in here go to diet section...again LEARN TO DIET LITTLE BOY


haha your cool, with your 35 posts since 09 lol.

----------


## toms402

> lord..... give me strength......
> 
> There is so much processed crap in fast food that YOUR BODY DOESNT ABSORB THE NUTRIENTS!
> 
> I don't eat clean to stay "cut" - I eat clean to gain weight! I understand this is something that you are just un-able to comprehend at the moment - i'm really trying to see this from your point of view but DAMNIT it's hard.....
> 
> Another thing..... Aparantly i'm hard headed because I just can't believe that you aren't working out NOW but you have in the past and you will in the future. EVEN if you safely ran a cycle..... you'd have to keep working out and eating to maintain what you gained. *You clearly wont do that.....so why bother*?
> 
> Some people just need to come clean with themselves. You don't have what it takes to add any kind of significant weight. You don't even have what it takes to put on 15 fvckin pounds. There's nothing wrong with not being able to stick to a diet or a training regiment - just accept who you are and build on that. If you decide that you want to change your ways..... I will be more than happy to help you with a diet. If not..... atleast learn to respect yourself.
> ...


i definitely will, if notice its working then that will motivate me even more. in the past i saw no change and the motivation went away.

----------


## toms402

> This thread is so amusing LOL
> 
> I just hope it doesnt get closed soon 
> 
> This kid is a joke


anymore commnets like this and you will be banned, marcus300

----------


## baseline_9

> haha your cool, with your 35 posts since 09 lol.


The majority of ur post have been in this thread defending urself while people bash you for being so stupid

What does post counts have to do with you not knowing how to eat

----------


## alexnapier

Im running HGH now but i reckon for a first timer sck with Gear do a 10wk Test Cycle

----------


## Blade15

> haha your cool, with your 35 posts since 09 lol.


At least I am know how to diet BABYBOY...i think your age is wrong you must be 10 or 11... :Big Grin:

----------


## Blade15

> The majority of ur post have been in this thread defending urself while people bash you for being so stupid
> 
> What does post counts have to do with you not knowing how to eat


HEy Baseline he doesnt know what you are talking about.. he is still underage...10 may be.... :Big Grin:

----------


## FuzzyPeaches o.O

I cannot believe there are 3 pages of this nonsense...

I said it back on page 1, this guy is a tool...

----------


## toms402

> HEy Baseline he doesnt know what you are talking about.. he is still underage...10 may be....


lol i dont even have to say anything.

----------


## Blade15

> will i get some type of infraction if i tell you to suck my dick?


You are Shemale then.... first i thought you are a girl... but with penis (of 1inch) (dont laugh :Big Grin: ) i can call you a shemale... :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:

----------


## toms402

> *At least I am know how to* diet BABYBOY...i think your age is wrong you must be 10 or 11...


im 10 or 11 haha.

----------


## Blade15

> im 10 or 11 haha.


Your age on Birth certificate may be 20 or whatever you think..but we all know real age... if you dont know then ask your momma ... :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:

----------


## Hazard

> Im running HGH now but i reckon for a first timer sck with Gear do a 10wk Test Cycle


You sir..... ARE A DUMB SHIT............

What on earth would posses you to pass out BLATANTLY WRONG advice? Have you not read this whole thread?

~Haz~

----------


## baseline_9

> You sir..... ARE A DUMB SHIT............
> 
> What on earth would posses you to pass out BLATANTLY WRONG advice? Have you not read this whole thread?
> 
> ~Haz~


 Haz i was going 2 say it LOL

----------


## vettewreck

> again you dont know me,----- i dont want to be 240 roided up like most of you here, i want to be normal weight at around 180 to 200


BUAHYAHAHAHAHAH WOW!!!! I know you. YOU are no different than every other f*cking newbie that comes on here and thinks they know it all. This is just hilarious reading your responses at this point!!! We are telling you HOW to get to 180/200... WE decided to keep going hence why we are 230+lbs. The same diet applies for ANYONE wanting to gain size, going to 200 or 250. Stopping and mainting at any weight is their choice. YOU keep thinking you know it all and you have the biggest appetite of all... which i laughed at soooo hard!! Keep going buddy, youre on your way! BUAHAHAHA F*cking clown.

----------


## toms402

> BUAHYAHAHAHAHAH WOW!!!! I know you. YOU are no different than every other f*cking newbie that comes on here and thinks they know it all. This is just hilarious reading your responses at this point!!! We are telling you HOW to get to 180/200... WE decided to keep going hence why we are 230+lbs. The same diet applies for ANYONE wanting to gain size, going to 200 or 250. Stopping and mainting at any weight is their choice. YOU keep thinking you know it all and you have the biggest appetite of all... which i laughed at soooo hard!! Keep going buddy, youre on your way! BUAHAHAHA F*cking clown.


i dont think i know it all thats why i came here and asked for some help. than i hear you got to eat, eat, eat, NO SHIT. if i said my age was 25 and i lied about my weigh this would have been a whole different thread.

----------


## toms402

> Your age on Birth certificate may be 20 or whatever you think..but we all know real age... if you dont know then ask your momma ...


 :Icon Stupid:  what a ****en faggot you are.

----------


## Brewster

> i dont think i know it all thats why i came here and asked for some help. than i hear you got to eat, eat, eat, NO SHIT. if i said my age was 25 and i lied about my weigh this would have been a whole different thread.


your right it would.
and it would only apply to someone that age and weight

----------


## vettewreck

You literally made no point by that. Age and weight/size determines advice given. So again, youre a F*cking retard.

----------


## V8Assassin

> i would workout for a few months before i would a cycle, i know i cant just do it now again iv done research how many ****en times have i said that? IM NOT WORKING OUT NOW, and you guys call me hard headed when you dont even comprehend what i say. *i never i said i ate clean, i said i ate a lot. just between last night at 1 and now iv prob ate almost 2000 calories cause i just had another meal.* what you people are telling me is contradicting from what i heard from other people at the gym and internet research. everyone who gave me advice told me for someone with my size to eat anything and everything, but to make sure i get in the protein and thats what i did and it makes sense if i want to get bigger. those people who eat clean are people who wants to be super cut, im already skinny and i dont need to eat fat less chicken or what ever.



Let's get this straight right here, right now. YOU DO NOT EAT ALOT!!! I get 2000 calories before lunch everyday. What you perceive to be alot of food is a snack when you are talking about gaining. Now get over yourself and accept the fact that you have a TON of work to do on your diet and go get after it. 

Also, as Haz and myself have mentioned, all that junk food/fast food you are eating is not nutritious. It is made up mostly of empty calories that pass through your system without being absorbed and futhermore make it harder for you digestive system to absorb good calories. For example, if you sit down with a whey shake and a cheeseburger, you may as well throw the whey shake down the toliet cause that is where it is headed anyway. 

I am going to ask you again, when is the last time you force fed yourself? If you have never had the pleasure, I suggest trying it. Then you can come on here and whine about how much you supposedly eat.

----------


## Hazard

unfortunately this thread will end up closed if this keeps up.....

I tried being civil..... I gave the advice that I thought to be best. My advice will not change.....

If the flaming continues - this will have to be closed.

~Haz~

----------


## toms402

> You literally made no point by that. Age and weight/size determines advice given. So again, youre a F*cking retard.


ok so if i make another username down the line youl actually be helpful? and actually describe the difference between hgh and steroids throughly? your advice is eat and eat, i just ate my 3rd meal an hour ago and probably 3 more to go and im not even working out. if i was i would be eating more intensely and healthier.

----------


## Hazard

make a note to yourself..... we have staff members that check IP addresses..... If you create another account - your IP will be banned.

I'm not telling you that to be a smartass..... it's true. Your best bet is to start researching a little more and forget that this ever happened.

~Haz~

----------


## toms402

> Let's get this straight right here, right now. YOU DO NOT EAT ALOT!!! I get 2000 calories before lunch everyday. What you perceive to be alot of food is a snack when you are talking about gaining. Now get over yourself and accept the fact that you have a TON of work to do on your diet and go get after it. 
> 
> Also, as Haz and myself have mentioned, all that junk food/fast food you are eating is not nutritious. It is made up mostly of empty calories that pass through your system without being absorbed and futhermore make it harder for you digestive system to absorb good calories. For example, if you sit down with a whey shake and a cheeseburger, you may as well throw the whey shake down the toliet cause that is where it is headed anyway. 
> 
> I am going to ask you again, when is the last time you force fed yourself? If you have never had the pleasure, I suggest trying it. Then you can come on here and whine about how much you supposedly eat.


ok i didnt know junk food was THAT bad for you to tell you the truth. why do people get fat off of fast food if it goes right through you? i would have thought id be at least getting some fat on me but no metabolism too fast. how is 2000 calories not a lot in 3 meals? the average person eats that much in a day, by the end of the night i will have eaten around 4000 easily. its small compared to what you eat but your on roids and easily over 200 pounds so you cant compare really.

----------


## vettewreck

> i will have eaten around 4000 easily. its small compared to what you eat but your on roids and easily over 200 pounds so you cant compare really.


 HAZ, can you please lock this thread. I literally cannot take the small minded nieveness coming from this kid even after all the perfectly sound advice and points we've all made. Simply look ^. If someone doesnt get it, fine, but the blatent argueing is absurd at this point (3 pages worth).

----------


## BgMc31

Stop feeding this troll, fellas.

I doubt the kid is even 20. He sounds a lot like the high school kids I coach. As most of you know, I have 2 sons (14 and 16) and their buddies ask them all the time if I could recommend a cycle for them to look like my boys. My boys tell them all the time, that while I won't lie about my AAS, my sons got their physiques and athleticism through hard work, lots of food, and genetics. My 14yr old is quite thin (according to my family's standards), he is 5'8 and 140lbs. My 16 yr old is 6'2 and 195 (one of the top safety/linebacker recruits in the country). They eat tons of good food, everyday (my grocery bill is outrageous, thank God for my NFL pension, lol).

So stop the conversation with this kid. He's one of the types that need to learn the hard way.

----------


## toms402

> Stop feeding this troll, fellas.
> 
> I doubt the kid is even 20. He sounds a lot like the high school kids I coach. As most of you know, I have 2 sons (14 and 16) and their buddies ask them all the time if I could recommend a cycle for them to look like my boys. My boys tell them all the time, that while I won't lie about my AAS, my sons got their physiques and athleticism through hard work, lots of food, and genetics. My 14yr old is quite thin (according to my family's standards), *he is 5'8 and 140lbs*. My 16 yr old is 6'2 and 195 (one of the top safety/linebacker recruits in the country). They eat tons of good food, everyday (my grocery bill is outrageous, thank God for my NFL pension, lol).
> 
> So stop the conversation with this kid. He's one of the types that need to learn the hard way.


now how pathetic is that i a 20 year old is 4 inches taller and weigh pretty much the same.

----------


## toms402

ok you can close the thread now.

----------


## V8Assassin

> ok i didnt know junk food was THAT bad for you to tell you the truth. why do people get fat off of fast food if it goes right through you? i would have thought id be at least getting some fat on me but no metabolism too fast. how is 2000 calories not a lot in 3 meals? the average person eats that much in a day, by the end of the night i will have eaten around 4000 easily. its small compared to what you eat but your on roids and easily over 200 pounds so you cant compare really.


Yes, it does compare. How do I know, because when I was twenty I was not over 200lbs. I was 180 at 6'2" and looked like a beanpole. My arms were a whopping 14 inches, and I was wearing a size 30 waist pant. I know am in a 34 waist and weigh 250lbs. BTW I am 36 now. Do the math, that's 70lbs over 16 years!!! I could have done better, could have done it quicker, could have done it with less hazard to my endo system, but guess what I was like you and wouldn't listen. That is where the aggrevation you are getting is coming from. Most of us here were your size or close to it, and know what it takes. Not because we read a magazine or have a theory, but because we have lived it. 

I am telling you this from the bottom of my heart, you can gain the weight you want with proper diet and exercise. It will not be easy, it will not happen fast. It will take years of dedication and hard work. If you try to take the easy road, it will burn you in the end. I am sure you have heard the old saying, "nothing easy is worth having". 

If your metabolism is as efficient as you say it is of course the diets compare. Your exercise, lifestyle, and metabolism will determine the number of calories you need. Quit guessing how many you are getting and start writing them down. Another hint, until you put it on paper it is meaningless and impossible to follow or document results. Data collection is an important part of this game, all the way from caloric intake to blood test. Do the math on your BMI and your total daily expenditure and decide how many calories you need and then design a diet accordingly. There are plenty of example of how to do the math in the diet section, and plenty of sample diet plans that you can tweak to your specific needs. 

I am not telling you do not use AAS, how the hell could I say that with a straight face. What I, and most of the others, are trying to tell you is nail down a training split and a diet first. Get them handled NOW! Once they are in the books and you have followed them for let's say at least a year, then come back and revisit the AAS decision. At that point you may decide you don't need them to achieve you goals and have saved yourself not only time and money, but also the risk to your endocrine system. These are extremely powerful drugs you are talking about taking and should not be taken lightly. I'm not sure if anyone has let you in on the secret, but they are as or more addictive than anything out there including coke and h. Yes, that's right, I said it and you seriously need to listen.... these drugs, both hgh and AAS, are extremely addictive. There are other dangers we are not even talking about, do you have male pattern baldness in your family, do you have a history of diabetes in your family, do you have a history of heart problems in your family, cancer, have you had acne, and the list goes on.

I am by no means one of the experts around here, and I am just trying to tell you what I believe is true. I promise you I have seen many people just like you come and go in the twenty or so years that I have been doing this stuff (took a few years off here and there but that's a different story), and the ones that are successful have a dedication to diet and training split first before anything else.

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## V8Assassin

> now how pathetic is that i a 20 year old is 4 inches taller and weigh pretty much the same.


It's not pathetic, it just is what it is and if you want to change it stop the noise coming from the jaws and put some food in there!!! Also, and nobody wants to hear this, but genetics are the biggest factor in any of this. Some people are just born bigger than others. Again it's not a bad thing, it just is what it is. 

Quit worrying about where you are today and start dedicating yourself to being what you want in the future. Have a vision and make it your reality. Step one.. put your plan on paper. Write down your goals, and then write down your diet and training split to get there. After that it's easy, just go work your plan!!!

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## HitIt

> now how pathetic is that i a 20 year old is 4 inches taller and weigh pretty much the same.


it's very pathetic that you're 4 inches taller and weigh the same...btw, i'm 5'8" 140lbs....i guess if i was 6' and weighed what i weigh now i'd go on a steroid forum and act like a douche by telling everybody they are not quite as smart as me

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## toms402

> Yes, it does compare. How do I know, because when I was twenty I was not over 200lbs. I was 180 at 6'2" and looked like a beanpole. My arms were a whopping 14 inches, and I was wearing a size 30 waist pant. I know am in a 34 waist and weigh 250lbs. BTW I am 36 now. Do the math, that's 70lbs over 16 years!!! I could have done better, could have done it quicker, could have done it with less hazard to my endo system, but guess what I was like you and wouldn't listen. That is where the aggrevation you are getting is coming from. Most of us here were your size or close to it, and know what it takes. Not because we read a magazine or have a theory, but because we have lived it. 
> 
> I am telling you this from the bottom of my heart, you can gain the weight you want with proper diet and exercise. It will not be easy, it will not happen fast. It will take years of dedication and hard work. If you try to take the easy road, it will burn you in the end. I am sure you have heard the old saying, "nothing easy is worth having". 
> 
> If your metabolism is as efficient as you say it is of course the diets compare. Your exercise, lifestyle, and metabolism will determine the number of calories you need. Quit guessing how many you are getting and start writing them down. Another hint, until you put it on paper it is meaningless and impossible to follow or document results. Data collection is an important part of this game, all the way from caloric intake to blood test. Do the math on your BMI and your total daily expenditure and decide how many calories you need and then design a diet accordingly. There are plenty of example of how to do the math in the diet section, and plenty of sample diet plans that you can tweak to your specific needs. 
> 
> I am not telling you do not use AAS, how the hell could I say that with a straight face. What I, and most of the others, are trying to tell you is nail down a training split and a diet first. Get them handled NOW! Once they are in the books and you have followed them for let's say at least a year, then come back and revisit the AAS decision. At that point you may decide you don't need them to achieve you goals and have saved yourself not only time and money, but also the risk to your endocrine system. These are extremely powerful drugs you are talking about taking and should not be taken lightly. I'm not sure if anyone has let you in on the secret, but they are as or more addictive than anything out there including coke and h. Yes, that's right, I said it and you seriously need to listen.... these drugs, both hgh and AAS, are extremely addictive. There are other dangers we are not even talking about, do you have male pattern baldness in your family, do you have a history of diabetes in your family, do you have a history of heart problems in your family, cancer, have you had acne, and the list goes on.
> 
> I am by no means one of the experts around here, and I am just trying to tell you what I believe is true. I promise you I have seen many people just like you come and go in the twenty or so years that I have been doing this stuff (took a few years off here and there but that's a different story), and the ones that are successful have a dedication to diet and training split first before anything else.


ok fair enough, but you were 180, a big difference from me. i wasnt guessing calories i do read them. there are no health problems with me or my family also.

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## toms402

> It's not pathetic, it just is what it is and if you want to change it stop the noise coming from the jaws and put some food in there!!! Also, and nobody wants to hear this, but genetics are the biggest factor in any of this. Some people are just born bigger than others. Again it's not a bad thing, it just is what it is. 
> 
> Quit worrying about where you are today and start dedicating yourself to being what you want in the future. Have a vision and make it your reality. Step one.. put your plan on paper. Write down your goals, and then write down your diet and training split to get there. After that it's easy, just go work your plan!!!


ok, good advice.

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## BgMc31

> now how pathetic is that i a 20 year old is 4 inches taller and weigh pretty much the same.


My point was that my kids both have very high metabolisms and it takes a shit ton of food for them to gain weight. I feel it in my pocket book every week. That's all I'm saying. You don't need AAS, you need to eat more and properly. And you need to stop acting like an ass and take the advice from very experienced people that are trying to help you.

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## toms402

> My point was that my kids both have very high metabolisms and it takes a shit ton of food for them to gain weight. I feel it in my pocket book every week. That's all I'm saying. You don't need AAS, you need to eat more and properly. And you need to stop acting like an ass and take the advice from very experienced people that are trying to help you.


ok so if your kid who 4 inches shorter and weighs the same as me need to eat a lot to gain weigh, does that give any idea just how much food i need to eat? ok let me give you an idea of how scrawny i am, as far as body type im almost like leonardo dicaprio in the basketball diaries. someone here tell me you looked like him and not lie.

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## gymfu

I gained almost 60 lbs naturaly before cycling. I thought I had a fast metabolism also, when I got older it slowed down. You don't know if you are a hard gainer, your too young.

Have you had your test levels checked? being 20 they are prob very high naturaly.

As for hgh, if your growth plates haven't sealed yet you could really mess your self up with hgh, not to mention if you can't afford food you can't afford hgh. 

gl

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## lovbyts

> ok* so if your kid who 4 inches shorter and weighs the same as me need to eat a lot to gain weigh, does that give any idea just how much food i need to eat?* ok let me give you an idea of how scrawny i am, as far as body type im almost like leonardo dicaprio in the basketball diaries. someone here tell me you looked like him and not lie.


Again, there is your answer. Eat. Sorry the only answer is EAT. it's not all at once, you need to learn what and when, it makes a difference and YES junk foods are that bad, Full of empty calories. It makes a HUGE difference of what you eat and when you eat it. If you eat exactly the same foods as someone who is competitive body building but you eat it at different times/intervals and will get different results not only due to the individual body but due to how/when the food is processed.

I use to eat TONS of food. I use to eat a LOT of green salads and other food I though was healthy. I was 5' 8" and could not get past about 155 working out 5x a week for years.

Eating can be a job. Sometimes you have to eat when you dont really want to but you know you will feel better later. I can definably tell if I did not eat right 2 hrs before I worked out, I burn out fast.

1gm of GOOD Clean protein will only maintain you, not help you grow or gain weigh. You need 1.5g or if you really want to bulk 2g.

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## V8Assassin

> ok, good advice.


Good it sounds like you are coming around! 

Always remember this is not going to be easy, the diet and food requirements to transform yourself will be challenging on the best days. I have a plate full of food I really don't want to go eat waiting on me right now. My trick is just take a bite and swallow it down with water like it's medicine. It gets old fast and I wish there was some easier way to do it, but there just isn't. Doesn't matter if you use AAS or not, without proper nutrition it's all a waste of time. Also, when we speak of proper nutrition we are referring to proper nutrition to grow, not just eat healthy. If it's as bad as you say, plan on 6k calories plus a day, and I don't care what anybody says, that's a helluva lot of food and supplements. Oh yeah, supplements..... get some! Weight gain, protein, BCAAs, vitamens, and a good post workout sup like dark matter (not plugging I just happen to use it).

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## AlphaMaleDawg

> im 6 ft, 150, 20 year old, iv worked out but i got a really fast metabolism so i have to eat a lot more than your average person to gain weight, thats why im considering these options.


what a joke

here is my advice: DON'T EAT CLEAN. EAT PIZZA, MCDONALDS, TACO BELL, KFC, ETC. clearly eating clean isn't working for you so you need your calories the easy way. Eventually you will learn to eat clean down the road. and definitely don't do steroids

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## frank784

I wouldn't even worry about his cycle because of his knowledge put forth he is going to get fake gear and not know the difference. 

No one on this board is here to keep you from your goals. They are here to help you and are just giving opinions on what will work best for you. Steroids will help you reach your goals, but not without proper diet and nutrition(the most important part). 

Be honest with yourself and get a solid diet/workout for six months to start with and you will be amazed by your results and will not want to cycle till the time is right. I am 5'11 and was 138lbs before so I have been in your shoes. I'm now 50lbs heavier and am only now going to start a cycle. Give it time and work hard. You will get there but listen to they guys on the board. They know what they are talking about!

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## MKase83

Im not gonna try to knock you becuase it seems like you know everything!Bro stop doubting yourself!!Have some confidence and listen to guys like Vette,I was 18 yrs old when i did my first cycle and i regret it greatly becuase i thought there was no other way even though every summer of my high school years i would put on 10 lbs naturally!!That was alot of weight naturally or with the use of steriods ,I did it with heavy weight gainer and eating every two hours on the clock.Why did i do steriods becuase i thought i knew everything and was too impatient!
What im trying to say is go to the diet section do alot of research,take creatine,protein,and alot of food and people will think you are juicing and do this for a year.I had friends that were always getting accused of juicing when they were just going balls to the walls naturally.So what im getting at is have some faith in your self and get educated and if you apply all the info you get you will be very happy with your natural gains.Ive been in your place and im telling you this becuase i wish someone would of sat me down and told me the info your getting!!!

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## Matt

> Im running HGH now but i reckon for a first timer sck with Gear do a 10wk Test Cycle


Post less and read more you tool....

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## marcus300

Tom, you come on a bodybuilding forum and ask for advice and everyone as told you the best advice for someone with your stats, yet you want to disregard the advice. Even if you did cycle its going to be pointless because you dont have any kind of stable diet to support muscle growth or maintain muscle tissue so when you come off the cycle you will lose everything.

You will kill your natural testosterone , which will make you feel like an emotional wreak and do you really want to be coping with low test problems, do you have any idea what you may have to deal with!! you cant gain weight now you will be wasting your time when your on cycle because taking steroids wont supplement a bad diet, the food your eating isnt muscle building food, its sh1t.

Ive had to edit your post on the 2nd to last page and if you carry on flamming you will be banned, now stop acting like a 10yr old and listen and learn. We can help you but your going to have to take the blinkers off and listen to bodybuilders who know what they are taking about.

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## stevey_6t9

lol this thread made my day.

goodluck tom, you cant afford food then i doubt you can afford any aas or hgh.

looks like your going to stay skinny mate, and admire people like us at the gym.

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## Swifto

What a waste of CPU space...

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## lovbyts

> Tom, you come on a bodybuilding forum and ask for advice and everyone as told you the best advice for someone with your stats, yet you want to disregard the advice. Even if you did cycle its going to be pointless because you dont have any kind of stable diet to support muscle growth or maintain muscle tissue so when you come off the cycle you will lose everything.
> 
> You will kill your natural testosterone , which will make you feel like an emotional wreak and do you really want to be coping with low test problems, do you have any idea what you may have to deal with!! you cant gain weight now you will be wasting your time when your on cycle because taking steroids wont supplement a bad diet, the food your eating isnt muscle building food, its sh1t.
> 
> Ive had to edit your post on the 2nd to last page and if you carry on flamming you will be banned, now stop acting like a 10yr old and listen and learn. We can help you but your going to have to take the blinkers off and listen to bodybuilders who know what they are taking about.


Considering everything this is carefully thought out, straight to the point, well pointed out facts and almost elegantly worded. Who is using Marcus's account???

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## JRBCNNY

My name is Daniel, and I am 37 years old and I weigh about 240 pounds. I am 6 ft tall and I have been training for years. I do alot of anabolic training, and occasionally power lifting. Over the years training has taken its toll and I have seen my recovery is not as fast as it use to be. However I am considering using anabolics, since I feel I have reached a point of maturity in my life that I would like to experiment with anabolics. Any recommendations for a first time user? WHat kind of stack do you recommmend, I want to add thickness to my muscles, and keep the body fat in check. My body tends to hold water and fat no problem, so I don't want to look bloated. I was told Deca and a testosterone would be a good first start...what do you guys recommend?

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## cyounger100

> My name is Daniel, and I am 37 years old and I weigh about 240 pounds. I am 6 ft tall and I have been training for years. I do alot of anabolic training, and occasionally power lifting. Over the years training has taken its toll and I have seen my recovery is not as fast as it use to be. However I am considering using anabolics, since I feel I have reached a point of maturity in my life that I would like to experiment with anabolics. Any recommendations for a first time user? WHat kind of stack do you recommmend, I want to add thickness to my muscles, and keep the body fat in check. My body tends to hold water and fat no problem, so I don't want to look bloated. I was told Deca and a testosterone would be a good first start...what do you guys recommend?


well daniel start your own thread and im sure vets will chime in for you

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## jfunderburk

I am 35 years old and have the same problem with the high metabolism and have a hard time gaining weight...what recommendations could you all give me. I have been researching different supplements including steroids and hgh. I am 6' and my weight fluctuates from about 160 tp 170, and I would like to be about 190-195.

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## Razor

Um just take both!

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## hankdiesel

> I am 35 years old and have the same problem with the high metabolism and have a hard time gaining weight...what recommendations could you all give me. I have been researching different supplements including steroids and hgh. I am 6' and my weight fluctuates from about 160 tp 170, and I would like to be about 190-195.


Start a new thread and post up your diet and training schedule.

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## Mr Tick

:Rant:  DAMM!T.... Took the time to read a 2 year old thread because someone just had to bump it.. I gotta start looking at the dates.

On the bright side I guess its good because he had to use the search feature to find it so at least he is doing that.

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