# STEROIDS FORUM > HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY- Low T, Anti-Aging >  Is "affordable HGH" possible?

## forrest_and_trees

Is it possible to run an effective HGH program for someone without insurance or a trust fund to dip in to? We've all heard claims from e-mails, websites and late night TV infomercials about "affordable" HGH and HGH enhancing supplements however, is there any truth in the claims or is "affordable HGH" and oxymoron? I've heard "real" hgh can cost thousands and unless you're one of Hollywood's elite or make a living off of your appearance, then adding HGH to your program is just not possible. What's the reality behind all of this?

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## Callsign

Idk, but I'm going to do more research. I wonder if u take a trip to China n load up how much would your per month cost be.. Seems doable. I took it before incorrectly (due to traveling too much for work). I took it an average of 3-5shots per week for only 2.5 months & "wow" was i happy with it

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## SlimmerMe

> Is it possible to run an effective HGH program for someone without insurance or a trust fund to dip in to? We've all heard claims from e-mails, websites and late night TV infomercials about "affordable" HGH and HGH enhancing supplements however, is there any truth in the claims or is "affordable HGH" and oxymoron? I've heard "real" hgh can cost thousands and unless you're one of Hollywood's elite or make a living off of your appearance, then adding HGH to your program is just not possible. What's the reality behind all of this?


INTERESTING QUESTION.....looking forward to some answers Forrest!

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## frawnz

It's not really affordable if you get a Rx for it in the US. Black market HGH from China, Mexico, etc are much cheaper, but if you read through the HGH forums here, you will see that most of what comes from those countries is more than likely not actually HGH. HGH supplements don't work. You need to do injections to see real results. 

Having insurance pretty much doesn't matter either because I have yet to see an insurance company that covers HGH.

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## Termin8r27

> It's not really affordable if you get a Rx for it in the US. Black market HGH from China, Mexico, etc are much cheaper, but if you read through the HGH forums here, you will see that most of what comes from those countries is more than likely not actually HGH. HGH supplements don't work. You need to do injections to see real results. 
> 
> Having insurance pretty much doesn't matter either because I have yet to see an insurance company that covers HGH.


Werd!

Unless you have a pituitary problem I've never heard of insurance covering it. As mentioned above, real HGH is expensive and the supplements or peptides just don't do enough...

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## JimInAK

There are likely 100's of Chinese distributors mailing packages of HGH to the US everyday. I've taken HGH for over a year and it has all been produced in China. I've taken blood tests and it was genuine HGH.

Chinese HGH is just as real as the American product and the only kind that is affordable.

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## frawnz

> There are likely 100's of Chinese distributors mailing packages of HGH to the US everyday. I've taken HGH for over a year and it has all been produced in China. I've taken blood tests and it was genuine HGH.
> 
> Chinese HGH is just as real as the American product and the only kind that is affordable.




I think this is very misleading advice. Unless you're spending thousands of dollars getting your HGH fully analyzed, you have no idea what is in it, what it's purity level is, etc. 

An excellent demonstration of Chinese HGH authenticity is that every "namebrand" Chinese HGH has anywhere from 3-5+ websites all claiming to be the "real one", each with it's own serial code verification system. 

Purity plays a large factor as well. Most people on Rx US HGH have noted that as little as 2-3 IU can achieve noticeable side effects and results, where as most people on Chinese HGH are using 8-10 IU to achieve the same thing. If US HGH is 4x the efficacy as Chinese HGH, then Chinese HGH is not looking quite so affordable any more.

You can buy cheap "Loius Vuitton" bags from China too, but when the zipper breaks after a week and the paint starts flaking off, you may start re-evaluating how good a bargain it was.

You (often) get what you pay for.

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## marcus300

> I think this is very misleading advice. Unless you're spending thousands of dollars getting your HGH fully analyzed, you have no idea what is in it, what it's purity level is, etc. 
> 
> An excellent demonstration of Chinese HGH authenticity is that every "namebrand" Chinese HGH has anywhere from 3-5+ websites all claiming to be the "real one", each with it's own serial code verification system. 
> 
> Purity plays a large factor as well. Most people on Rx US HGH have noted that as little as 2-3 IU can achieve noticeable side effects and results, where as most people on Chinese HGH are using 8-10 IU to achieve the same thing. If US HGH is 4x the efficacy as Chinese HGH, then Chinese HGH is not looking quite so affordable any more.
> 
> You can buy cheap "Loius Vuitton" bags from China too, but when the zipper breaks after a week and the paint starts flaking off, you may start re-evaluating how good a bargain it was.
> 
> You (often) get what you pay for.


I totally agree and to be honest there are a few guys on here at the moment who think they are getting 100% gh from china, they still have their heads in the sand because they dont want to believe they have been wasting alot of money. Its amazing how many people say MY source sells good gh infact its laughable and the joke is on them.

Excellent point Frawnz

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## JimInAK

> I think this is very misleading advice. Unless you're spending thousands of dollars getting your HGH fully analyzed, you have no idea what is in it, what it's purity level is, etc. 
> 
> An excellent demonstration of Chinese HGH authenticity is that every "namebrand" Chinese HGH has anywhere from 3-5+ websites all claiming to be the "real one", each with it's own serial code verification system. 
> 
> Purity plays a large factor as well. Most people on Rx US HGH have noted that as little as 2-3 IU can achieve noticeable side effects and results, where as most people on Chinese HGH are using 8-10 IU to achieve the same thing. If US HGH is 4x the efficacy as Chinese HGH, then Chinese HGH is not looking quite so affordable any more.
> 
> You can buy cheap "Loius Vuitton" bags from China too, but when the zipper breaks after a week and the paint starts flaking off, you may start re-evaluating how good a bargain it was.
> 
> You (often) get what you pay for.


An IGF-1 blood test is the BEST indication whether your HGH is good or not. I've had three IGF-1 blood spot tests and know that what I've taken from China was gtg.

You can claim American superiority and pay 8 to 10 times more for whatever certification or assurance you need. I don't believe that I need "8-10iu" to achieve what you do from your "4x potent superior American HGH" because I don't take that large of a dose, ever. Sounds to me like your selling used cars and asserting your opinion as fact.

How can you assert that you know anything about Chinese HGH from legitimate manufacturers? 

I'd love to see a side by side comparison of Chinese and American HGH. However, the AMA and the DEA are protecting the monopoly of the American pharm producers, so we have been denied the opportunity for an open, honest comparison or debate.

"Getting what you pay for" makes sense when everyone is playing on a level playing field. American pharm manufacturers have a monopoly. That's why generic products are cheaper and Chinese HGH is a small fraction of the price of the equivalent American product.

I have no real reason to mistrust Chinese manufacturers any more than their American counterparts.

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## killswitch

I had this conversation with my doc and he prescribed gherlin. Its a stomach peptide and research has shown it to be a strong putuatary secretagogue. I'll have blood done after 12 weeks and see where my igf1 levels are. I'm paying about half what hgh would cost me. 
I can tell u after 3 weeks I sleep much deeper... Like dead to the world sleep (4th phase slow wave sleep) gherlin has been shown to dp this. my alarm goes off and I can't think straight I have no idea what day it is or where the heck I am... That's how knocked out I am.

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## frawnz

> An IGF-1 blood test is the BEST indication whether your HGH is good or not. I've had three IGF-1 blood spot tests and know that what I've taken from China was gtg.
> 
> You can claim American superiority and pay 8 to 10 times more for whatever certification or assurance you need. I don't believe that I need "8-10iu" to achieve what you do from your "4x potent superior American HGH" because I don't take that large of a dose, ever. Sounds to me like your selling used cars and asserting your opinion as fact.
> 
> How can you assert that you know anything about Chinese HGH from legitimate manufacturers? 
> 
> I'd love to see a side by side comparison of Chinese and American HGH. However, the AMA and the DEA are protecting the monopoly of the American pharm producers, so we have been denied the opportunity for an open, honest comparison or debate.
> 
> "Getting what you pay for" makes sense when everyone is playing on a level playing field. American pharm manufacturers have a monopoly. That's why generic products are cheaper and Chinese HGH is a small fraction of the price of the equivalent American product.
> ...




You have your head in the clouds, my friend. I am quite familiar with Chinese HGH and have had conversations with MANY people who also have tried their hand with it. By and far, the results almost always point to Chinese HGH = junk. 

For all you know, you're injecting IGF-1. It looks exactly the same, will obviously provide noticable IGF-1 increases on your blood spot test, and has similar side effects as HGH but costs a fraction as much to produce. 

You're entitled to do whatever you want, but you should at least be responsible and not tell people that Chinese HGH is safe, effective and affordable when you have no data to back that up besides some mail-in blood tests.

When I first looked into HGH, I came across a bid distribution website that mostly had Chinese pharmaceutical companies offering their services. I have quite literally received over a THOUSAND emails offering "LEGIT HGH AT CHEAP PRICES!" over the span of less than a year. I'm sure all these little Chinese startup companies have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars on high-tech machinery and sterile lab space that is required to produce HGH and then sell it at dirt cheap prices to countries like the US.

I have yet to see a SINGLE before and after picture of results from just Chinese HGH usage. NOT ONE! You go to any steroid forum (this one included) and there's entire subforums dedicated to progress pictures! And yet nothing exists for HGH use! What happens is people spend so much money on their HGH that they refuse to believe what they're using could be crap, regardless of what the results (or lack of) are.

Maybe you got lucky and found a legitimate Chinese HGH distributor, but the truth of the matter is, you really have no idea what you're putting in your body. Even if it is HGH, what other fillers are included with it?

The reason there's practically no underground HGH market within the US is it's incredibly expensive to product. That should be a HUGE red flag when you're buying your HGH for practically nothing from some back door, fell out the back of a truck, my brother works at a lab and can get it for me cheap, Chinese underground lab.

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## JimInAK

> You have your head in the clouds, my friend. I am quite familiar with Chinese HGH and have had conversations with MANY people who also have tried their hand with it. By and far, the results almost always point to Chinese HGH = junk. 
> 
> For all you know, you're injecting IGF-1. It looks exactly the same, will obviously provide noticable IGF-1 increases on your blood spot test, and has similar side effects as HGH but costs a fraction as much to produce. 
> 
> You're entitled to do whatever you want, but you should at least be responsible and not tell people that Chinese HGH is safe, effective and affordable when you have no data to back that up besides some mail-in blood tests.
> 
> When I first looked into HGH, I came across a bid distribution website that mostly had Chinese pharmaceutical companies offering their services. I have quite literally received over a THOUSAND emails offering "LEGIT HGH AT CHEAP PRICES!" over the span of less than a year. I'm sure all these little Chinese startup companies have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars on high-tech machinery and sterile lab space that is required to produce HGH and then sell it at dirt cheap prices to countries like the US.
> 
> I have yet to see a SINGLE before and after picture of results from just Chinese HGH usage. NOT ONE! You go to any steroid forum (this one included) and there's entire subforums dedicated to progress pictures! And yet nothing exists for HGH use! What happens is people spend so much money on their HGH that they refuse to believe what they're using could be crap, regardless of what the results (or lack of) are.
> ...


The facts don't support your rheteric...

Our forum's respected supplier ARR, sells IGF-1 for a very fair price... which is more than $100 per mg. It would be quite a trick to turn that for a profit as HGH and sell it for less than 2% of it's actual cost. Your assertion just doesn't hold water.

Furthermore, you simply need to Google the terms: phamacy, Chinese HGH, and bust to find hundreds of articles related to DEA busts of American pharmacies and underground distributors buying Chinese HGH and marketing it to Americans as genuine American, FDA approved HGH.

There are stories published by ESPN, the NY Daily News, CNET and many other respected REAL News articles reporting that MILLIONS of dollars worth of Chinese HGH has been shipped into the United States every year.

Individuals and pharmacies have been prosecuted and gone down hard for selling genuine Chinese HGH.

I'm not going to beat a dead horse here, but the facts don't support your statements

In my opinion, it's irresponsible to refute my factual statements with unfounded assertions and ad hominum arguments without documented facts to support your side of the argument.

BTW - There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and our government routinely lies to the public to achieve their goals, to maintain profits for their favored special interests (and their campaign contributions) and to maintain control over those who are too ignorant to understand or too busy to find the truth.

Whether or not I have purchased genuine HGH is really not an issue. What I do is private and I am not here to hawk goods to anyone. My interest is in disseminating the facts. Denying that Chinese manufacturers produce genuine and pure HGH is not supported by the facts.

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## Flex6018

In the 6th Edition of Anabolics i read in there that if you want to now if your takeing real hgh to test it on a pregancy test it should come up positive if its real hgh. Anyone even heard of that?

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## pittbulldad

My doc will prescribe it but however to make it not cost a ridiculous amount per unti you have to buy almost 2500 dollars of product up front.... then the price per unit plummets... but getting to that amount is PAINFUL

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## Anticatabolik

It cost big pharma companies about 1-2 dollars an i.u to produce HGH...

The Chinese are hurting people, have no certification to operate, no international standard of manufacturing or ISO, no formal training, and quite frankly 90% of their products are either 192aa, fake, or research peptides.

You are paying big pharma companies for cleanliness, international standard of manufacturing, trained bio chemists and ultra modern labs.

When it comes to your health and body, why compromise....

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## Anticatabolik

double

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## lovbyts

> My doc will prescribe it but however to make it not cost a ridiculous amount per unti you have to buy almost 2500 dollars of product up front.... then the price per unit plummets... but getting to that amount is PAINFUL


Is that from a longevity clinic? I never though about asking for a quantity discount. I had a script but I could not afford the 3 bones each month and to see any real effects I really needed 3x what I was using (only 1iu day)

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## forrest_and_trees

> Is that from a longevity clinic? I never though about asking for a quantity discount. I had a script but I could not afford the 3 bones each month and to see any real effects I really needed 3x what I was using (only 1iu day)


I'd heard it cost about $1000 a month so that sounds about right.

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## lovbyts

> I'd heard it cost about $1000 a month so that sounds about right.


Yup, if I was to do 3iu a day it would be 1k a month or just under, around 9 bones. I never though about asking for a discount if I purchased 3 months at once or???

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## JimInAK

> In the 6th Edition of Anabolics i read in there that if you want to now if your takeing real hgh to test it on a pregancy test it should come up positive if its real hgh. Anyone even heard of that?


It's my understanding that real HGH will not come up positive when run over one of those pregnancy test strips. Scammers will buy HCG and pass it off as HGH, as both substances have a similar appearance and dissolve in water similarly. HCG does came up positive on a pregnancy test, as that is specifically the hormone that is tested for in a stick-urine type pregancy test.

So if it tests positive you have HCG not HGH.

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## Anticatabolik

> It's my understanding that real HGH will not come up positive when run over one of those pregnancy test strips. Scammers will buy HCG and pass it off as HGH, as both substances have a similar appearance and dissolve in water similarly. HCG does came up positive on a pregnancy test, as that is specifically the hormone that is tested for in a stick-urine type pregancy test.
> 
> So if it tests positive you have HCG not HGH.


This is very true, also with igf-1, the only company that has the patent for real igf-1 is in Australia!

Every other so called 'igf-1' out there is simple generic Chinese hgh or god knows what...

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## JimInAK

> This is very true, also with igf-1, the only company that has the patent for real igf-1 is in Australia!
> 
> Every other so called 'igf-1' out there is simple generic Chinese hgh or god knows what...


It doesn't seem to take long for other companies to figure out how to make a product, once someone else has developed it.

Real HGH boosts your IGF-1 level in your blood, so unless you had experience with the real IGF-1 product, it would be difficult to tell the difference.

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## lovbyts

> *It doesn't seem to take long for other companies to figure out how to make a product, once someone else has developed it.*
> 
> Real HGH boosts your IGF-1 level in your blood, so unless you had experience with the real IGF-1 product, it would be difficult to tell the difference.


Reverse engineering...

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## lift_heavy

china, just gotta have a legit source. dont get scammed. but yeah chinese make it affordable.

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## Anticatabolik

> It doesn't seem to take long for other companies to figure out how to make a product, once someone else has developed it.
> 
> Real HGH boosts your IGF-1 level in your blood, so unless you had experience with the real IGF-1 product, it would be difficult to tell the difference.


Yes, but they make generic, inferior unstable and unsafe products, peoples health should put above just buying cheap and unsafe products,

If people just bought American made peptides, they would need to use less and know its a safe product....

igf-1 does more than just boost igf-1 levels...

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## JimInAK

> Yes, but they make generic, inferior unstable and unsafe products, peoples health should put above just buying cheap and unsafe products,
> 
> If people just bought American made peptides, they would need to use less and know its a safe product....
> 
> igf-1 does more than just boost igf-1 levels...


That's your opinion, and not a fact...

There have been several AMERICAN phamacies busts for selling CHINESE HGH !?!?

Wouldn't users of a SUPERIOR PRODUCT instantly tell the difference in quality!?! Evidently not, because Chinese HGH does not represent an inferior product.

Where's you proof or alternatively, can you provide any real FACTs?

The claims you make sound like the Congressional hearings to outlaw marijuana, where such facts such as "marijuana is what makes Mexicans crazy" was accepted as proof... 

It's almost laughable...

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## Anticatabolik

> That's your opinion, and not a fact...
> 
> There have been several AMERICAN phamacies busts for selling CHINESE HGH !?!?
> 
> Wouldn't users of a SUPERIOR PRODUCT instantly tell the difference in quality!?! Evidently not, because Chinese HGH does not represent an inferior product.
> 
> Where's you proof or alternatively, can you provide any real FACTs?
> 
> The claims you make sound like the Congressional hearings to outlaw marijuana, where such facts such as "marijuana is what makes Mexicans crazy" was accepted as proof... 
> ...


Your rant is getting you nowhere, 

First of all, I am not talking about 'Pharmacies', but multinational American/German Pharma companies that produce hgh or igf-1.

Second of your really delusional if you think that the manufacturing standards and quality in China are on the same level as the USA.

Chinese growth is cheap and therefore made to no standard at all, just because you can't afford American made products maybe its time you bought some AMERICAN MADE hgh and tested both before opening your mouth....

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## frawnz

You're wasting your time Anticat, he is beyond listening to any sort of logic. I don't wish harm on anyone though, so hopefully what he is injecting himself with is indeed HGH.

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## LBSOMEIRON

Thread has gotten pretty ugly. All I can say is that I have used Chinese gear with positive results. I'm not on anyones side. I'm not telling you that all chinese gear is the real deal and I sure am not telling you all US gear is the real deal.

I am, however, confident that the best way to go is pharm grade, but as mentioned....truly unaffordable.

For now, I'll continue to use both US and chinese gear. My hgh does come from a Chinese UG and all I can say is that I HAVE had good results. COuld they have been better with a US source? Possibly....could they have been worse? Sure.

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## Times Roman

Does Costco sell it? I know they sell test.
If costco does sell it, what are they charging?

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## Dont wanna be old

Can compounding pharmacies make HGH ?

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## flatscat

> Can compounding pharmacies make HGH ?


can, but huge trouble if they get caught so none do

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## Times Roman

> Does Costco sell it? I know they sell test.
> If costco does sell it, what are they charging?


I just answered my own question. Just back from Costco picking up my kid's Rx. Talked to the pharmacist, and they do NOT sell HGH. He then went on to "inform me" it is strictly regulated by the feds and is only prescribed for young kids with stunted growth. I didn't say this, but if that were true, how would one explain all the HRT clinics prescribing it then?

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## Times Roman

> can, but huge trouble if they get caught so none do


"Make" HGH?? It is a molecule. If my understanding is correct, compounding pharmacies "mix" substances together. But I didin't think they could manufacture something as complex as HGH. Correct me if I am wrong.

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## frawnz

> I just answered my own question. Just back from Costco picking up my kid's Rx. Talked to the pharmacist, and they do NOT sell HGH. He then went on to "inform me" it is strictly regulated by the feds and is only prescribed for young kids with stunted growth. I didn't say this, but if that were true, how would one explain all the HRT clinics prescribing it then?


HGH is only supposed to be prescribed in the US for very specific medical conditions. From my research, it's the HGH scripts that usually get these clinics busted, as opposed to their testosterone scripts for which there is a lot more room for interpretation from a medical standpoint. I've dealt with a few anti-aging clinics and actually been inside one, and they've all been pretty shady thus far.

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## Vettester

> I just answered my own question. Just back from Costco picking up my kid's Rx. Talked to the pharmacist, and they do NOT sell HGH. He then went on to "inform me" it is strictly regulated by the feds and is only prescribed for young kids with stunted growth. I didn't say this, but if that were true, how would one explain all the HRT clinics prescribing it then?


TR, you are correct. It is widely available at just about every clinic out there. All the major online advertising clinics have it, and most are very willing to prescribe it just as fast as they prescribe their other compounds. My GP at Kaiser told me the same thing that your pharmacist told you. These are people that are ignorant to how things really work in the real world.

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## flatscat

> "Make" HGH?? It is a molecule. If my understanding is correct, compounding pharmacies "mix" substances together. But I didin't think they could manufacture something as complex as HGH. Correct me if I am wrong.


I transposed get for make - my bad. It is manufactured in a lab with raw materials. A sophisticated compounding pharmacy could do it, if they wanted to face very stiff penalties by trying to import the substance. They don't "make" testosterone , or hcg either if you want to look at it that way. Same goes with stuff like MTII or 141, etc.

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## pittbulldad

> Is that from a longevity clinic? I never though about asking for a quantity discount. I had a script but I could not afford the 3 bones each month and to see any real effects I really needed 3x what I was using (only 1iu day)


it is.. because you have to buy from their pharmacy the more you buy at one time the cheaper it gets.. but one kit its a flat price.. but three kits its 3x the cost of one kit but you get 2 kits for free.. so 5 kits for the price of 3

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## forrest_and_trees

> it is.. because you have to buy from their pharmacy the more you buy at one time the cheaper it gets.. but one kit its a flat price.. but three kits its 3x the cost of one kit but you get 2 kits for free.. so 5 kits for the price of 3


Too bad there's no group buy.

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## weknowbobbito

but there are authentic chinese sources that ship real hgh am i correct? its just finding that source that is the hard part

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## frawnz

It's not legal for Chinese pharmacies to just ship out HGH either, so anything you're receiving is not on the up and up. Could it be real? Yes. Is the probability high that it's fake? Yes.

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## forrest_and_trees

Today I found some interesting information which may actually make it possible for people without insurance to receive **FREE* US-made HGH!* -If you search for "HGH Manufactures" you'll find a site called "HGHNews". They list all the US based HGH manufactures and their respective product names. I did some further checking on a site called, "Partnership for Prescription Assistance" [@ PPARX.org] and there you can search to see if various prescription medications have Patient Assistance programs which pay for your medication if you qualify. Each company has their own qualifications, some are more lenient than others, you just have to check around. Often they will offer a 90 day free dose and then you would have to re-apply when you run out. Obviously this requires a doctors prescription and while I have called several manufactures to verify their programs, I have yet to try it myself. This sounds *real* promising! Now I just need a convincing argument to get my GP to sign off on it. Any suggestions?

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## SlimmerMe

Adult deficient growth hormone maybe? that is legal...especially if your IGF-1 is LOW.

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## forrest_and_trees

My IGF-1 from my last blood test was 117.

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## zaggahamma

> My IGF-1 from my last blood test was 117.


thats a tad low

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## SlimmerMe

> My IGF-1 from my last blood test was 117.


yep---low--(mine was 99!)

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## forrest_and_trees

> yep---low--(mine was 99!)


What exactly does that mean? The range on my test was 100-267 and my Doc didn't say anything about it.

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## SlimmerMe

> What exactly does that mean? The range on my test was 100-267 and my Doc didn't say anything about it.


my IGF-1 level was 99 which got me diagnosed with Adult Deficient Growth Hormone ...because on the low end and he wanted it higher

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## forrest_and_trees

I was more curious about what the ADGH meant for you? I've read up on it and it still seems a bit vague other than potential bone loss, fatigue, and mood; which are all also associated with Low T in men. What is it doing to you? Have you been on HGH and has it improved any of your symptoms? If so, in what way? Did you have the "stimulus test" or was your IFG-1 level based on a standard random screening? It certainly seems like I'm in the low end of the range but not sure if that's good enough to go to my doctor and request treatment since he didn't feel it was significant [or know enough] to mention it before. He seems to feel my fatigue is a result of sleep apnea but I cant afford the sleep test so I haven't been able to do anything about it. What drives me crazy is a lot of this stuff is "chicken and the egg". What is causing what? Is the ADGH causing the sleep apnea or the other away around etc.? Same with Low T and high E2 or Hypothyroidism and sleep apnea. Is one causing the other and if so, which is which? It's enough to drive you crazy.

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## APIs

> An IGF-1 blood test is the BEST indication whether your HGH is good or not. I've had three IGF-1 blood spot tests and know that what I've taken from China was gtg.
> 
> You can claim American superiority and pay 8 to 10 times more for whatever certification or assurance you need. I don't believe that I need "8-10iu" to achieve what you do from your "4x potent superior American HGH" because I don't take that large of a dose, ever. Sounds to me like your selling used cars and asserting your opinion as fact.
> 
> How can you assert that you know anything about Chinese HGH from legitimate manufacturers? 
> 
> I'd love to see a side by side comparison of Chinese and American HGH. However, the AMA and the DEA are protecting the monopoly of the American pharm producers, so we have been denied the opportunity for an open, honest comparison or debate.
> 
> "Getting what you pay for" makes sense when everyone is playing on a level playing field. American pharm manufacturers have a monopoly. That's why generic products are cheaper and Chinese HGH is a small fraction of the price of the equivalent American product.
> ...


I found the above comments amusing. I work in a part of the US Pharma Industry that supplies Active Ingredients to US Drug manufacturers. I am very familiar with China's Pharmaceutical industry. There are no FDA inspected or approved producers of HGH in China that can legally market their product in the US (unless one was recently approved by the FDA). This alone should be of concern when considering to utilize HGH that is made in China. While there are quite a few FDA approved facilities producing quality active ingredients & finished dosage drugs, the majority of China's Pharma producers are sub-par at best. With poor oversight, China's pharma industry is overly profit-driven right now with quality control often ignored in the name of immediate profit & growth. I personally know of many examples where ingredients or finished dosage products coming from China & other countries have been the cause of injury or massive recalls that have never been reported to the public. To think that your HGH (Made in China) is being made under optimum conditions with any great concern for your health is a very wrong assumption to make.

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## SlimmerMe

> I was more curious about what the ADGH meant for you? I've read up on it and it still seems a bit vague other than potential bone loss, fatigue, and mood; which are all also associated with Low T in men. What is it doing to you*? Have you been on HGH and has it improved any of your symptoms?* If so, in what way? Did you have the "stimulus test" or was your IFG-1 level based on a *standard random screening*? It certainly seems like I'm in the low end of the range but not sure if that's good enough to go to my doctor and request treatment since he didn't feel it was significant [or know enough] to mention it before. He seems to feel my fatigue is a result of sleep apnea but I cant afford the sleep test so I haven't been able to do anything about it. What drives me crazy is a lot of this stuff is "chicken and the egg". What is causing what? Is the ADGH causing the sleep apnea or the other away around etc.? Same with Low T and high E2 or Hypothyroidism and sleep apnea. Is one causing the other and if so, which is which? It's enough to drive you crazy.


He diagnosed me as ADGH based on a random screening. I do think random vs stimulus does differ from state to state but am not 100% sure. I took HGH for 6 months and boy did it help me sleep the best in my life! I am serious. Vivid dreams. DEEP DEEP SLEEP. I felt a GREAT sense of well being too. Not much bothered me. So much so that it didn't even bother me that I was gaining weight...I was also on other things which attributed to the weight gain...TEST and DHEA and too much estrogen...so...now I am cold turkey and I feel the difference. I really do. I miss the sleep. I want to clean out and start over with just hgh and E2-E-3 and Progesterone and LEAVE OUT the test and dhea. For now...only the armour....nothing else except some stuff for my cortisol/adrenals which I am self medicating. I think a lot of this starts with balancing the adrenals. Have you had that checked?

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## forrest_and_trees

> He diagnosed me as ADGH based on a random screening. I do think random vs stimulus does differ from state to state but am not 100% sure. I took HGH for 6 months and boy did it help me sleep the best in my life! I am serious. Vivid dreams. DEEP DEEP SLEEP. I felt a GREAT sense of well being too. Not much bothered me. So much so that it didn't even bother me that I was gaining weight...I was also on other things which attributed to the weight gain...TEST and DHEA and too much estrogen...so...now I am cold turkey and I feel the difference. I really do. I miss the sleep. I want to clean out and start over with just hgh and E2-E-3 and Progesterone and LEAVE OUT the test and dhea. For now...only the armour....nothing else except some stuff for my cortisol/adrenals which I am self medicating. I think a lot of this starts with balancing the adrenals. Have you had that checked?


I too had suspected adrenals however, I did have an AM cortisol test just last month at it was 10.1 on a range of 6.2-19.4. I'm beginning to suspect *moderate* ADGH based on my IGF-1 results and symptoms. But as I've said, I may have a difficult time convincing my GP of that. It was hard enough to get him to buy into the clinical Hypothyroidism and that was only after I had provided him with clinical evidence that the standard range had changed putting me in the low column. Fortunately, I'm responding well to my NaturThroid now that I've dialed in my dosage at 4 grains per day, [260 mg] even though my TSH was boarder-line when I began.

P.S. - APIs, I too have seen aftermarket/knock off Chinese made products for other industries and though they may look at first glance to be similar to their OEM counterparts, they're far from it and quality control is non-existent. A company I worked for had to send back our entire stock of a particular product due to a 100% failure rate, not to mention we lost a lot of money and customers in the process. However in this case, I believe the Chinese product referred to above is not actually sold in the states but purchased direct via mail order from over seas or from people traveling abroad.

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