# GENERAL FORUM > IN THE NEWS >  Jim Traficant talks about Jewish control of America

## goose

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsVLnaHmMjE

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## Vitruvian-Man

The was the most ridiculous 5 minute clip I have ever watched. 

People like that should be shot for their stupidity. They're just contaminating the minds of others will their absurd B.S.

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## goose

I think he has a good point.Why is it ridiculous?

I think its an interesting topic the power of Israel in the united stated.

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## Abominator

Actually the man speaks the truth. Research Israeli involvement in the U.S. government, especially in our military.

Just take a look at the U.S. media--a large portion of the high-level executives that decide what airs and what doesn't are Jewish.

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## TITANIUM

It was only a matter of time before the Jews got brought up.

They do have a controlling interest and agenda.

So, it's not ridiculous the entertain the idea of this subject.

This thread will surely gain momentum.

Best

T

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## Saam_ee

> The was the most ridiculous 5 minute clip I have ever watched. 
> 
> People like that should be shot for their stupidity. They're just contaminating the minds of others will their absurd B.S.



He should be shot because of his views? Wow that sound intelligent..
If he´s so stupid it should´nt be so hard to prove him wrong.

And if other people cant think for them self, who decides what they should hear and not hear, i mean are you one of those guys??

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## goose

Nice to see we got some smart bros here!!

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## Saam_ee

> It was only a matter of time before the Jews got brought up.
> 
> They do have a controlling interest and agenda.
> 
> So, it's not ridiculous the entertain the idea of this subject.
> 
> This thread will surely gain momentum.
> 
> Best
> ...


I dont mean to attack you as ive read some of your posts and from what ive read you seem to be a very logical person who can actually have a debate. But I do think its important to point out that he´s critizing Israel and people (the political group that is nown as zionists) who use US as a means to secure Israels future and not jews as a group. Check: www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUxjI8-DUHg

I feel if we dont point this out now early in the thread this is going to end up as a closed thread thanks to anti-semitism.

Israel might be a country that calls it self a jewish state, but i dont feel like jews has to see Israel as "the" jewish state, meaning that you can be jewish and against Israel. Check: http://www.nkusa.org/

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## goose

Now this will be a shock to people,but I have read this book.

Mind-blowing.

http://www.amazon.com/Thirteenth-Tri...4747465&sr=1-1

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## goose

The eastern European Jews, who form 92 per cent of the world's population of those people who call themselves Jews, were originally Khazars. They were a warlike tribe who lived deep in the heart of Asia. And they were so warlike that even the Asiatics drove them out of Asia into eastern Europe. They set up a large Khazar kingdom of 800,000 square miles. At the time, Russia did not exist, nor did many other European countries. The Khazar kingdom was the biggest country in all Europe -- so big and so powerful that when the other monarchs wanted to go to war, the Khazars would lend them 40,000 soldiers. That's how big and powerful they were.This is what the book is about,with hard evidence.

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## Saam_ee

> The eastern European Jews, who form 92 per cent of the world's population of those people who call themselves Jews, were originally Khazars. They were a warlike tribe who lived deep in the heart of Asia. And they were so warlike that even the Asiatics drove them out of Asia into eastern Europe. They set up a large Khazar kingdom of 800,000 square miles. At the time, Russia did not exist, nor did many other European countries. The Khazar kingdom was the biggest country in all Europe -- so big and so powerful that when the other monarchs wanted to go to war, the Khazars would lend them 40,000 soldiers. That's how big and powerful they were.This is what the book is about,with hard evidence.



Again im not attacking you as a person or your views, but I dont really think that this post fits in this thread. If anything you should start a new thread and post this. 

This thread is about Mr Traficant arguing that a group with a direct interest that Israel lives on, is using their influence in US politics to get decisions that are Israel friendly.

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## goose

Its cool bro,I do see your point.

Healthy discussion is healthy.

Peace...









> Again im not attacking you as a person or your views, but I dont really think that this post fits in this thread. If anything you should start a new thread and post this. 
> 
> This thread is about Mr Traficant arguing that a group with a direct interest that Israel lives on, is using their influence in US politics to get decisions that are Israel friendly.

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## Saam_ee

> Its cool bro,I do see your point.
> 
> Healthy discussion is healthy.
> 
> Peace...



Thanks, yes a healthy discussion is the shit =).

Btw i can recommend this clip if your interested in Israels reportedly influence over US. Would love to discuss it with someone thats interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N294FMDok98

And peace to you too bro.

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## Nooomoto

I, personally don't have a problem with Israel-friendly decisions. The US has used Israel a number of times to do it's dirty work (come on guys, read some primary sources), and vice-versa...it's a mutual relationship. And for the better part of our relationship the US was extremely hesitant in sharing intelligence with Israel. We even ****ed them in the ass a few times (reference Oliver North), so we owe them a tad.

People love to hate on Israeli-Jews...of course most of their detractors don't have half the balls they do, including American-Jews. Go figure. I respect Israel because they handle shit, if they have a problem, they handle it. They don't dick around and debate endlessly while people die (cough cough), they just get down to business. Israel is one of our FEW allies who are down to rock at moment's notice...and if you read your history, Israel is really good at rocking.

EDIT: Also...guys...consider your source. James Traficant is a fking nutcase, proven to be corruptable, and a convicted criminal. This is who you're getting your info from? Come on...

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## TITANIUM

> I dont mean to attack you as ive read some of your posts and from what ive read you seem to be a very logical person who can actually have a debate. But I do think its important to point out that he´s critizing Israel and people (the political group that is nown as zionists) who use US as a means to secure Israels future and not jews as a group. Check: www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUxjI8-DUHg
> 
> I feel if we dont point this out now early in the thread this is going to end up as a closed thread thanks to anti-semitism.
> 
> Israel might be a country that calls it self a jewish state, but i dont feel like jews has to see Israel as "the" jewish state, meaning that you can be jewish and against Israel. Check: http://www.nkusa.org/






I understand this point.


Agreed!


Agreed!


I wasn't saying anything , that in point, would contradict The original OP.

And for that matter, what is transpiring in Israel. The US is always involved in some form or fashion, almost everything that goes on globally.

I agree that this should not be insinuating, in anyway, against Jews themselves..

Definitely two different thought processes going on here.

Best to separate the two Early on.

As far as my statement goes about Jews with agendas and political interests/control, I was talking about here in the US.

I should have clarified that point more clearly.

I wish that race and religoin could be left to the wayside, but such is the world we live in.

Mr Traficant is Entitled to his opinion, even though I may not agree with it.

Best


T

Peace Bro's

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## Saam_ee

> I, personally don't have a problem with Israel-friendly decisions.


How about if thos decisions are directly unconstitutional, do you think it´s ok to go against the foundin fathers writings of "Trade with everyone, make treaties with no one"?

And do you think it´s ok if this makes US, its citizens and soldiers comprimised by this decision as US alieanates a big part of the world as it shows almost unconditional support to one country?




> The US has used Israel a number of times to do it's dirty work (come on guys, read some primary sources), and vice-versa...it's a mutual relationship. And for the better part of our relationship the US was extremely hesitant in sharing intelligence with Israel. We even ****ed them in the ass a few times (reference Oliver North), so we owe them a tad.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

And about "owing them a tad", $3billion annually + loans, is that enough?





> People love to hate on Israeli-Jews...of course most of their detractors don't have half the balls they do, including American-Jews. Go figure. I respect Israel because they handle shit, if they have a problem, they handle it. They don't dick around and debate endlessly while people die (cough cough), they just get down to business. Israel is one of our FEW allies who are down to rock at moment's notice...and if you read your history, Israel is really good at rocking.





> EDIT: Also...guys...consider your source. James Traficant is a fking nutcase, proven to be corruptable, and a convicted criminal. This is who you're getting your info from? Come on...


Not saying that hes not a nutcase, corrupted or a criminal (i dont know, and ill leave it at that as i dont think it has to do with the thread), lets listen to what he says, according to this clip, alot of what he says is backed up by other more respectable people in US politics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N294FMDok98

Can you prove him wrong and show us that Israel doesnt get 3 billion annually?
Can you show us the facts that Aipac isnt one of the most powerful lobby groups in US, and a lobbygroup that not only helps (more like force) Israel friendly decisions go throu in US politics but decisions that are downright harmful for US foreign politics.

Do you think it´s ok to use US taxpayers money to help finance another nation, no matter what kind of ally or what nation it is?

If so, are you a socialist/communist? (Not trying to offend you, just asking).

Peace

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## Nooomoto

No, I don't have a problem with giving Israel $3 billion annually. We've wasted far more on things far stupider. I'm not arguing that AIPAC isn't a powerful lobbying group, or that we don't show unconditional support to Israel. I'm also not a communist or a socialist. I just believe that when you have an ally thats as down to get dirty as Israel is, it would behoove us to keep them friends.

If we called on Israel to help us fk some shit up, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't say no. Granted we are in a phase of trying to give blow jobs to every evil asshole in the world and trying to pacify tyrants rather than dealing with them in the only manner they understand, so thats not going to be an issue in the immediate future, but it has been in the past, and I'm sure it will be in the years to come.

I feel comfortable in the fact that Israel has our back, when so many others lack the testicular fortitude to properly deal with the evil that's so pervasive in this world we live in.

We must assume that James Traficant has been out of the loop for some time, as he spent 7 years in prison and has a skewed view of politics and the world in general. We must also assume that there are only a hand full of people that can see the entire picture as a whole, and none of us (including Traficant) know any of them.

I see Israel as that friend that you don't really hang out with all the time, but if some shit went down in the middle of the night, you can call him up and be like "Dude, we gotta go handle something", and he'd be down for it no questions asked. These types of guys aren't always the most wholesome characters, but they are definitely useful.

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## Saam_ee

> No, I don't have a problem with giving Israel $3 billion annually. We've wasted far more on things far stupider. I'm not arguing that AIPAC isn't a powerful lobbying group, or that we don't show unconditional support to Israel. I'm also not a communist or a socialist.


You dont have a problem "giving" other peoples money away, yet your not a socialist???????????

And for the "we spend money on other shit", if you are against socialism/communism your supposed to try to end spending not increase/continue it simply because you have spent money on worse things.


And about the unconditional support part.
Do you understand that this is unconstitutional and you condoning it makes you a threat to the constitution and thus the freedom and liberty of the people who stand by it (and dont wanna be involved in any treaties, their right by law) as you condone taking other peoples money and spending it on other contries defence (regardless of you thinking that it is in the interese of US, as Israel is a "key ally").

Again not trying to piss you of, but do you understand what you are actually saying??

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## TITANIUM

Saam_ee and Nooomoto, you both have valid points.

I think that you are both will get on the same page. I think that there is some form of misunderstand/ interpretation taking place.

I am going to watch this post, and see where it goes.

Interesting conversations taking place as usual.

Best

T

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## Nooomoto

> You dont have a problem "giving" other peoples money away, yet your not a socialist???????????
> 
> And for the "we spend money on other shit", if you are against socialism/communism your supposed to try to end spending not increase/continue it simply because you have spent money on worse things.
> 
> 
> And about the unconditional support part.
> Do you understand that this is unconstitutional and you condoning it makes you a threat to the constitution and thus the freedom and liberty of the people who stand by it (and dont wanna be involved in any treaties, their right by law) as you condone taking other peoples money and spending it on other contries defence (regardless of you thinking that it is in the interese of US, as Israel is a "key ally").
> 
> Again not trying to piss you of, but do you understand what you are actually saying??


You could call it spending money on their defense, (which we do anyway for the rest of the world, why not Israel too?) but you should also understand that we use Israel's forces, which we finance, to do our own biddings as well. We've done so quite a few times and will continue to do so. It's sometimes distasteful to do the things that have to be done in order to maintain a certain way of life, in some cases it's beneficial to have someone else do it for you.

It's far more beneficial to keep Israel on the pay roll, than it is to tell them to fk off and fight for themselves. We aren't simply just "giving" the money to Israel for the hell of it, they do their fair share on our behalf to earn it. It's not like giving a gift, it's more like "here's some money, strap up because I'm gonna call you later"

For example...if Israel decided to destroy Iran's nuclear facilities...it wouldn't be a surprise because everyone expects that, as they've done it before in Iraq and in France. Furthermore, Israel doesn't really give a fk about what the rest of the world thinks about them and what they do. In America, we are so concerned with making everyone happy, that it would cause massive uproar if we did something like that.

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## Saam_ee

> You could call it spending money on their defense, (which we do anyway for the rest of the world, why not Israel too?) but you should also understand that we use Israel's forces, which we finance, to do our own biddings as well.



"If you call a dog's tail a leg, how many legs would the dog have? 
Four legs, and merely calling the tail another leg does not make it so."
Abraham Lincoln

You can call healthcare spending money on peoples health, i mean call it what ever you want, none the less you are justifying taking other peoples money and thereby putting them at risk for a country that has nothing to do with those people.

If its greater for the better good, who decides whats good for the people and not, why not communism or conversion to religion by force, since (according to some) its better for people who dont understand that they can go to hell, or mass force of atheism as people dont understand (again according to some) that religion is false.

If US use Israels force, thats their problem not US, they should stand up for them self. 

And do you understand that you have activly choosen a side in the conflict thus pissing of not only the whole middle east but a lot of other contries and people to, making them your enemy (my enemys friend, is my enemy).

*And to be honest you havent answered any of my questions, you have just justified them.*






> It's far more beneficial to keep Israel on the pay roll, than it is to tell them to fk off and fight for themselves. We aren't simply just "giving" the money to Israel for the hell of it, they do their fair share on our behalf to earn it. It's not like giving a gift, it's more like "here's some money, strap up because I'm gonna call you later"
> 
> For example...if Israel decided to destroy Iran's nuclear facilities...it wouldn't be a surprise because everyone expects that, as they've done it before in Iraq and in France. Furthermore, Israel doesn't really give a fk about what the rest of the world thinks about them and what they do. In America, we are so concerned with making everyone happy, that it would cause massive uproar if we did something like that.



If Israel decides to attack Iran I do expect a 3rd world war, or at least a acceleration to that war. This will make gas prices sky rocket, fueling the financial crisis as people in the west has to spend even more money on gas.
Not to mention that Russia and China would probobly have to support Iran (prob. shadow support, none the less support) as they cant afford US to take control over the Iranian oil supply
This should increase anti-semitism in Europe as Israel will be seen as the agressor.
If US then cuts of the money supply to Israel (wich should happen in a severe crisis), Israel should have real hard times, let me say i wouldnt wanna be a jew then, moving to Europe or US with all of the anti-semitism that should be going on.

History repeats it self over, and over, and over.. until we actually decide to learn from it.

What you call support/ally/frikkin cool ass, bad ass buddy who woops ass with u and shares a beer after, has been tried before, and it resulted in the 1st world war (countries that werent directly involved with the shootings in Sarajevo had to join in thanks to treaties with other contries), wich in its turn led to the 2nd world war, and it looks that Israel (a country created after and according to many, thanks to the aftermath of WW2) could take us into WW3.

I mean how many people has to die, and suffer before we ****ING learn..

But again, please anwser the previous post, as im still asking you, do you realize that you are justifying comprimising the freedom/liberty of others, for something that is illeagal, thus making you a domestic threat??
If you look below, theres a warning of a millitary exodus, would you fight those guys or support them?

An Empire often dont fall thanks to external enemies, but domestic bullshit.
If you go to about about 48:30min into this clip, the guy who speaks is Colin Powells ex Chief of staf.
And he warns that US support for Israel not only should prob. fuel WW3, but also for an exodus of generals that might actually stand up and follow the constitution and go against your own government.. for the better of good, i guess.. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N294FMDok98

I do understand if this looks like im attacking you personaly, but im not, im attacking your arguments.

Peace and take care.

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## *El Diablo*

We control the whole world. Illuminati

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## Flagg

I don't know why there is any sort of love or support for Israel. Well I do, it's called propanganda against Muslims. That's what it boils down to...Islam is now the so called threat to the entire world. Funny how everyone condemned Russias presence in Geogia but people justified the 1000+ killed in Gaza earlier this year by Israel.

There's been an article recently printed in The Independent saying that Russia, China and Japan are secretly plotting to screw over America over the american dollar and oil in a few years time. And the worst part is people will think that is the case.

When oh when are people going to stop living in this Media run society we live and wake up and smell the coffee?

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## Kratos

a novel idea...blame the jews

what war did the jews push us into? Cause it wasn't Iraq, they had no interest. Afghan??? Why would the jews want us there? If it were Iran, Syria, or Lybia we were at war with, maybe, but we aren't at war with those nations.

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## Nooomoto

> But again, please anwser the previous post, as im still asking you, do you realize that you are justifying comprimising the freedom/liberty of others, for something that is illeagal, thus making you a domestic threat??
> If you look below, theres a warning of a millitary exodus, would you fight those guys or support them?


I could "answer" the question, but I'm not making the connection between giving Israel money and violating the freedom and liberty of US citizens, who are the only people that our constitution applies to. So I'm not really sure what answer you're looking for. I mean, we gave billions to Africa to help "educate" people about AIDS and HIV...did that violate freedom and liberty too?

As far choosing a side in a conflict that would make the whole middle east hate us...well, the middle east hating Western countries isn't anything new. Let's not parse words and pretend that these "people" in the mid-east are trying to pave a road to peace.

IMO, there is no substitute for military victory. It is universally understood by all, where as pretty words aren't.

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## Saam_ee

> I could "answer" the question, but I'm not making the connection between giving Israel money and violating the freedom and liberty of US citizens, who are the only people that our constitution applies to. So I'm not really sure what answer you're looking for. I mean, we gave billions to Africa to help "educate" people about AIDS and HIV...did that violate freedom and liberty too?




"Liberty is a concept of political philosophy and identifies the condition in which an individual has the right to act according to his or her own will."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty

You condone taking other US citizens (agains their will, socialism/stealing/fascism) money and donating it to Israel, thus going against their will.
Thus you overstep others liberty.

And as they have the right to defend their liberty, they can use force against you, if you would have been a politician and tried to get away with that.

I dont give a fcuck what country it is, who gives you the right to take other peoples money away? 
The hilarious part is that you justify it by saying that you spend stuff on worse shit.

So if your son tells you he smokes opium because others smoke crack and thats more dangerous, would that be ok??

*US taxmoney*
If used for healthcare = Socialism
If given to Israel, a country that will spend the money not only on their defence but as a part of their budget thus also their healthcare = thats just supporting a friend?? 

Hint: *its SOCIALISM* whether or not Israel is your BFF and your ultimate wingman that takes all the fat chicks so you can bang the hot nice assed chick who wants to show you that she can suck dick and say Nooomoto at the same time, saying that its not is like DSM not admitting hes gay.
Id like to add, that im not one of those who use socialism as a curse word, i think its nice of people if they freely enter socialism, but it pisses me off when people wants to take others money and spend it, thats just fcucking STEALING.

And yes it did violate the liberty of people when money was given for HIV. Again if you freely do it, then its beautiful, i think we all have a moral responsability to help others with hardships, but that doesnt mean i have the right to force it on others.

And if socialism is´nt enough, your also condoning putting the US people at risk as they in the eyes of the enemies of Israel, look like avid supporters and thus enemies to them.

Realize what pisses me of isnt Israel reciving money, its the fact that any country recives money, not only dont you have the right to give away the money of the people of US to africa, i even think africa would be a better place if the west would stop dumping all that "aid" *cough*bribes to corrupt leaders*cough*.




> As far choosing a side in a conflict that would make the whole middle east hate us...well, the middle east hating Western countries isn't anything new. Let's not parse words and pretend that these "people" in the mid-east are trying to pave a road to peace.


Realise that the middle east just uses Islam as a cover to fight the with west, their real issues is the millitary precense all over the middle east by US.
The petro dollar cycle.
And the unlimited support of Israel from the US.
And the fact that US acts like world police and more.

Replace muslims with nazis or communists and you have the three groups that reportadly hated US with all their heart during the past 100 years , dont you see the pattern, they just change the enemy but its the same backstory "They hate us, we havent done anything, we cant even communicate with them.
Dammit we have to give up our power to the government to fight this new evil, and anyone who wont is an enemy and traitor"

Ill have to say, you would prob love living in Oceania.. prob enjoy the daily hate speech to.. 
Who knows, maybe 2084.




> IMO, there is no substitute for military victory. It is universally understood by all, where as pretty words aren't.


Millitary victory ey?? Like totalitarianism maybe? Or how about some Burma style governing? Or like North korea maybe? Millitary influence is doing great wonders for the people over there..

Ill give you a substitute.. 
TRADE, TRADE, TRADE.

Why do you think so many people from west goes to Dubai or Quatar?
For the hate of the west maybe? Or maybe because theres shitloads of money.

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## Saam_ee

> a novel idea...blame the jews
> 
> what war did the jews push us into? Cause it wasn't Iraq, they had no interest. Afghan??? Why would the jews want us there? If it were Iran, Syria, or Lybia we were at war with, maybe, but we aren't at war with those nations.


Who blamed jews? This thread is about Israel and its influence on US.
Are you saying that there isnt a strong pro-Israel influence in US?

Btw Kratos, are you jewish, have jews in your family or know anyone jew that experienced WW2?

Not meaning it as an insult, but I have seen that you seem to be quick on bringing up the similar comments when people discuss Israel.

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## Saam_ee

> Saam_ee and Nooomoto, you both have valid points.


Please point them out




> I think that you are both will get on the same page. I think that there is some form of misunderstand/ interpretation taking place.


I dont think so, i want to, but im presenting arguments hes justifying.
You can justify pretty much everything, "Slavery is for the best of these savages, they need us so they will b civilized.."  :Aajack: 

Im sorry if i come out as arrogant, but sometimes im like fcuck this. 
I have no idea how people like Peter Schiff, Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinic (sp?) dont go up on stage and just curse everybody out, the sheep in the audience, the lying politicians, and the hypocrite "patriots".
Not that I agree with all they say, but they seem to defend liberty and free market (unsure about Dennis) but I def dont have the patience they have.

Maybe a financial meltdown, and a total collapse of the fiat "economy" in US and the rest of the world is whats needed for people to wake up.

Society seems to be a train going nowere headed to a dead end,
some people tried to warn the others but people not only dont wanna listen, they wont let you go off..

So much for liberty.

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## Nooomoto

So your solution is to trade with the violent fundamentalists in the mid-east? The same people who drag their wives and children in the streets while shooting at others? The same people who strap bombs to their chests and walk into markets and bus stations, blowing up their own people? Yeah...trade...sounds cool. You should write them a letter and tell them to chill out because we're gonna trade with them now. I'm sure they'll listen.

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## Saam_ee

> So your solution is to trade with the violent fundamentalists in the mid-east? The same people who drag their wives and children in the streets while shooting at others? The same people who strap bombs to their chests and walk into markets and bus stations, blowing up their own people? Yeah...trade...sounds cool. You should write them a letter and tell them to chill out because we're gonna trade with them now. I'm sure they'll listen.



Id love to answer this post, but i feel like your avoiding to answer the rest of my long post just to get off the hook.
So you anwser the rest (esp the part of liberty and socialism) and ill get back at ya..

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## Nooomoto

> Hint: its SOCIALISM whether or not Israel is your BFF and your ultimate wingman that takes all the fat chicks so you can bang the hot nice assed chick who wants to show you that she can suck dick and say Nooomoto at the same time, saying that its not is like DSM not admitting hes gay.
> Id like to add, that im not one of those who use socialism as a curse word, i think its nice of people if they freely enter socialism, but it pisses me off when people wants to take others money and spend it, thats just fcucking STEALING.


It's not stealing, and it's not socialism. Socialism is defined as state ownership of industry. Giving money to Israel is not state ownership of an industry. Furthermore, that comes from taxes already collected. It's not like there is an "Israel support tax." You're assuming that the entire country has a problem with giving money to Israel, and you're using a video from some convicted criminal scumbag politician as your evidence. You speak of liberty and freedom, but neglect to mention the horrible atrocities that is committed in the name of Islam on a daily basis. These middle-east nations execute people for having sex...wtf is that? 

I don't see you complaining about the 50 who were murdered as the result of a comic that was published mocking the prophet Muhammed, or the people that were beaten and shot in the streets of Iran during a protest, or the film maker Van Gogh who was murdered in the street in Amsterdam for his views. Blame America first, right? These people have begged for violence...and now they are getting it.

The Jews aren't the ones vowing to commit genocide, or calling for under the guise of religion. So yeah, I support Israel.

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## eliteforce

Yea and Israel the racist aphartied state, take a look at this thread:

http://www.dcmessageboards.com/index...howtopic=17024

and it shows you the violence they commit against Palestinians on a daily basis, you were unaware of this daily violence which is much worse than what happens in Iran-for example but you mention all these things that muslims do.. but you seem to think israel is the 'tolerant liberal society' when it's basically a facist state itself.

and the whole reason the west is in conflict with the arab/muslim world is because of zionism

Ahmnadinijad has called for 'wipeing out the zionist regime' not wipeing out the jews..
he always refers to it as the zionist regime, regime as in if it were not an aphartied state, those people who run that country that he hates, would not be running that country-it would have a non-racist regime.. it's the zionists in the american media that play with his words so you can claim he "vows to commit genocide" 

and it's a million iraqis that are dead, not a million jews or americans

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## Saam_ee

> It's not stealing, and it's not socialism. Socialism is defined as state ownership of industry. Giving money to Israel is not state ownership of an industry. Furthermore, that comes from taxes already collected. It's not like there is an "Israel support tax." You're assuming that the entire country has a problem with giving money to Israel, and you're using a video from some convicted criminal scumbag politician as your evidence.


When did I say that the whole US has a problem giving away money? You assumed i thought so..
Im saying its enough that one person is against it, and you doing it against his will, to have tresspassed on his liberty.

No i havent heard of an "Israel support tax", but if you have no problem on spending money that already is collected, how about spending it on Veterans, healthcare, schools. Fcuck it, what am i talking about, how about the fcuking DEFECIT.
US is going broke and you sayin its still ok to spend the money on another country?




> You speak of liberty and freedom, but neglect to mention the horrible atrocities that is committed in the name of Islam on a daily basis.


Do they have a constitution that gives the freedom or liberty? You sound like freedom and liberty is a vice, dude its a gift be glad and cherish it.




> You speak of liberty and freedom, but neglect to mention the horrible atrocities that is committed in the name of Islam on a daily basis. These middle-east nations execute people for having sex...wtf is that?


So fcucking what? Thats their problem, when did i defend that? They can do what ever they want in their country, what does that have to do with US?
Atrocities?? Slavery? Native americans? Agent orange? Iraq? Bailout plan?
The Ellen show on tv?




> I don't see you complaining about the 50 who were murdered as the result of a comic that was published mocking the prophet Muhammed, or the people that were beaten and shot in the streets of Iran during a protest, or the film maker Van Gogh who was murdered in the street in Amsterdam for his views.


Why should i complain about them in this thread? This thread is about Israel, how does the comics come in to the picture?
And yes i did complain about the bitching about the pictures, i even had arguments about it with some muslims so dont talk about shit you dont know.




> Blame America first, right?


Please show me were i blamed America? I said that Us supports Israel (are you arguing against this?), I also said that US has armed forces on what some people call holy land (are you debatting that US dont have forces in ex. Kuwait or SA?, and that some dont want this?).




> these people have begged for violence...and now they are getting it.


The Jews aren't the ones vowing to commit genocide, or calling for under the guise of religion. So yeah, I support Israel.[/QUOTE]

Haha at least your true colours are showing, this isnt you supporting Israel because you like them.
Its you supporting Israel because your full of hate for Islam/Arabs/middle east, i bet you would support a total occupation/whipeout of the whole area, icluding Israel, just as long as the muslims die.. right.. :1hifu: 

Your nothing but a hateful mofo, willing to sell out your own country just to get people that piss you off.

Such a sheep, have fun when gas prices reach 20$/gallon.
And by the way, have fun once the petro dollar scam finnally ends, come on kids can you say Hyper inflation??

If the US collapses it will be thanks to people like you.

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## TITANIUM

I said I would watch this post.

Politics and religion, never mix the two.

When you do, this is what happens.

Just remember that this is only a Forum.

Don't take it so seriously.

Saam_ee and Nooomoto-You have valid points.

But try to keep it civil.

The fight is out there, not here on this forum.

Best

T

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## warchild

In my country there is problem and that problem is the ....

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## goose

OK lets get heavy.

unlikely anyone will read it,but hey.It answers things,lets say its like a study (note he talks about the 13th tribe too)

http://www.themodernreligion.com/jihad/freedman.html

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## Kratos

> OK lets get heavy.
> 
> unlikely anyone will read it,but hey.It answers things,lets say its like a study (note he talks about the 13th tribe too)
> 
> http://www.themodernreligion.com/jihad/freedman.html


Wow, nice source, a site dedicated to hating jews, Islam, and Jihad.

The internet is full of this, Muslims have created a powerful propaganda machine.

Just FYI any article that uses "jewry" as an actual word...it might be a little bias.

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## Kratos

> Now this will be a shock to people,but I have read this book.
> 
> Mind-blowing.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Thirteenth-Tri...4747465&sr=1-1


Congrats on reading a peice of toilet paper.
Genetic evidence has proven the theory of Khazar decent completely false. 
Try reading "DNA, & Tradition the genetic link to the ancient Hebrews," or some of the other SCIENTIFIC papers on the subject.

It was dropped from Random House for a reason.

This book has become a sort of bible for the "christian identity movement" and other groups wishing to spread anti-semitism. So it makes me wonder...why were you reading it?

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## eliteforce

Yea but kratos, can't you just look at any american jew-pretty much they are all european in decent; lets take examples of people everyone has an image of in their heads.. stephen speailberg, allan deshowitz, bloomberg, aaron & tori spelling, barbara streisand, william krsitol, joseph lieberman, james caan(coen) , ok thats enough-

what do all these people have in comon? quite simply-they are all caucasian in appearance, or they are white people..if you see one walking the street you don't immediately know they're jewish.. so that means they originate somewhere in europe or the caucasis , but they can't possibly have that much 'semetic' arab-jew genes in them, its simple common sense

one other thing, it did not occur through 'milkification' or intermixing arabs (i'm calling semetic jews 'arabs' because they look the same or we can call them aramiacs) with white european christian people to form a mix, this may have happened a little but intermarriage was rare during the medeval times upto just prior to wwii..

and you only have to search the internet to know european jews are khazars or similar peoples who adopted that religion..

http://www.khazaria.com/

your DNA map is anything but scientific, you can draw a 'genetic links' all over the ethnic map, we're all humans that came from africa..

Do you really think that that many jews from Palestine migrated to europe in the misddle ages (where they were often persecuted and killed) at about the same times as the crusaders-who would go to Palestine and kill and expel jews, who intern fled into the Arab countries until the Arabs conquered the crusader kingdoms (thats where iraqi, syrian jews come from) so becasue the crusaders were dong this they decide to move to europe of all places, it's not mathimatically possible that _that_ many jews could have come from such a small number of people

Judism is a religion, thats it, part of the zionist sham is to pretend that its a 'people' when every other religion in the world is a religion, judism is a 'people'

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## goose

> Wow, nice source, a site dedicated to hating jews, Islam, and Jihad.
> 
> The internet is full of this, Muslims have created a powerful propaganda machine.
> 
> Just FYI any article that uses "jewry" as an actual word...it might be a little bias.


I dont hate jews,my girlfriend is jewish.

Benjamin H. Freedman is jewish...the speech is on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouXF2DLyPhY

To me its not about jews or muslims,im just researching and seeing it the way it is.

Peace bro...

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## Panzerfaust

Jesus Christ don't get me started on the so called "Jews"!  :LOL:

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## Saam_ee

> I said I would watch this post.
> 
> Politics and religion, never mix the two.


Im not mixing the two, i didnt speak about any religious views, i spoke about not forcing support on people who dont want to support Israel (do you like it that your taxmoney goes to another nation, whether or not the nation is Israel or Iceland?).

He´s not even mixing religion and politics, he just dont like those people and uses excuses like religion and their views, i mean its their country, let them go apeshit in their country.

If he wanted to donate money to Israel, then go ahead, shit donate your 401k, but dont come hear and say that you stand for peoples right when you want to donate their money.

I wont budge on this as i know that this is STEALING, or do you think im wrong T?





> When you do, this is what happens.
> 
> Just remember that this is only a Forum.
> 
> Don't take it so seriously.


I think you are on another own level when it comes to keeping calm and keeping a respectful dialogue, i really respect and admire that.




> Saam_ee and Nooomoto-You have valid points.
> 
> But try to keep it civil.


True i didnt keep it civil, but i clearly think he started it, when he´s basicly justifying taking other peoples money, and not even thinking/understanding the ****ed upness of that, im surprised that not more people react on this.

As soon as people speak about healthcare, people go balistic and say that shit is unfair to pay for other peoples health, but when you finance ANOTHER ****ING COUNTRY HALF WAY AROUND THE EARTH, then its all cool. And no, im not arguing for healthcare (a free market is the shit).




> The fight is out there, not here on this forum.
> 
> Best
> 
> T


Again i really respect you, we dont agree on everything but your a really big guy who admits when hes wrong (something i def dont do all the time, even tho i say im gonna), but i think that the fight is actually right here, because people want freedom and liberty, but dont wanna fight for it, unless its attacking a country that poses no threat to freedom and liberty, the irony is that they will even give up freedom and liberty (and take away others), in the so called war for freedom and liberty  :Aajack: .

George Orwell and Aldous Huxley were so right, its not even funny just sad.

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## Saam_ee

> The eastern European Jews, who form 92 per cent of the world's population of those people who call themselves Jews, were originally Khazars. They were a warlike tribe who lived deep in the heart of Asia. And they were so warlike that even the Asiatics drove them out of Asia into eastern Europe. They set up a large Khazar kingdom of 800,000 square miles. At the time, Russia did not exist, nor did many other European countries. The Khazar kingdom was the biggest country in all Europe -- so big and so powerful that when the other monarchs wanted to go to war, the Khazars would lend them 40,000 soldiers. That's how big and powerful they were.This is what the book is about,with hard evidence.






> It was only a matter of time before the Jews got brought up.
> 
> They do have a controlling interest and agenda.
> 
> So, it's not ridiculous the entertain the idea of this subject.
> 
> This thread will surely gain momentum.
> 
> Best
> ...





> Jesus Christ don't get me started on the so called "Jews"!




It doesnt matter if you agree or not with these posts but even thou this thread is about Israel, I baiscly see two sides.
*Support for jews vs negative views on not Israel, but JEWS.* I think Israels politics is going to hurt the jewish worldwide population, and i honestly would not be surprised if we saw another holocaust.
Israel critizism is being labeled as antisemitism, and this will desensitize people so much that they actually start to hate jews as a group, even thou some jews dislike/are against/critize the state of Israel.

Just look at South africa and the situation for whites.
Or immigrants in Europe and the growing xenophobic (sp?) parties

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## Kratos

> I dont hate jews,my girlfriend is jewish.
> 
> Benjamin H. Freedman is jewish...the speech is on youtube.
> ..


He may have been born a jew, but he didn't die one, he converted.
He also sponsored jew hating publications and was very controversial.
I don't see why he has any credibility.
He seems to know the whole jew scheme, does your gf...do all jews?

Jews were guilty of what? Boycotting goods, owning businesses??? Punishable by death?
You realize all jewish businesses and newspapers were boycotted in Germany in 1933 right?

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## Saam_ee

> He may have been born a jew, but he didn't die one, he converted.
> He also sponsored jew hating publications and was very controversial.
> I don't see why he has any credibility.
> He seems to know the whole jew scheme, does your gf...do all jews?
> 
> Jews were guilty of what? Boycotting goods, owning businesses??? Punishable by death?
> You realize all jewish businesses and newspapers were boycotted in Germany in 1933 right?






> a novel idea...blame the jews
> 
> what war did the jews push us into? Cause it wasn't Iraq, they had no interest. Afghan??? Why would the jews want us there? If it were Iran, Syria, or Lybia we were at war with, maybe, but we aren't at war with those nations.




I quote myself.





> Btw Kratos, are you jewish, have jews in your family or know anyone jew that experienced WW2?
> 
> Not meaning it as an insult, but I have seen that you seem to be quick on bringing up the similar comments when people discuss Israel.

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## Kratos

No, I am not Jewish...grew up knowing a few jews and still have some jewish friends. There is nothing evil or scheming about them, they're family oriented people who encourage education. They frequently end up with good jobs as a result. My gf's step dad is jewish. There are more of them in the North East then a lot of places in the country.

I've just done a good amount of reading and come up with my own views on the subject. As a result I find it amazing people are so quick to blame the jews in this day and age for so many problems. History really does repeat itself. Israel may have gotten out of hand, but I understand how it has come to this point, and I also see the ultimate soloution is going to be the destrustion of Israel at some point and Israeli's are acting out of self preservation, are outnumbered, out gunned, and out propagandized.

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## goose

toilet paper,LOL.

Its clear your Jewish,right wing too.

Noem chomsky is one good jew,you guys need more of his calibre,few and far apart.








> Congrats on reading a peice of toilet paper.
> Genetic evidence has proven the theory of Khazar decent completely false. 
> Try reading "DNA, & Tradition the genetic link to the ancient Hebrews," or some of the other SCIENTIFIC papers on the subject.
> 
> It was dropped from Random House for a reason.
> 
> This book has become a sort of bible for the "christian identity movement" and other groups wishing to spread anti-semitism. So it makes me wonder...why were you reading it?

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## Kratos

A good jew?
How much do you know about Noam Chomsky? And why should anyone care what he says? He's a self proclaimed anarchist and is a constant critic of intervention in any nation no mater what the justification. Could you possibly come up with a worse academic to quote than a widely known political dissident? In other words he's a philosopher and loves to argue and always takes the position of being against the US gvt, little of what he says has basis in fact and only suites his agenda. In other words he always plays devils advocate no matter what the issue the US gvmt is involved in.

http://www.thecommentfactory.com/noa...e-dispute-1397 


and see my previous post goose, I'm not a Jew. I'm a WASP. Specifically a Baptist.

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## Grieday09

Do you know a business issue currently in the news that deserves to be mentioned in case it will benefit other small business owners? Please feel free to start a thread about it in this forum.
Thanks

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## bass

He is very controversial figure, Ive listened to him in the passed, he is in your face kind of a guy, many of his statements are correct. I dont know much about what hes talking about here, but its worth researching.

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