# MEMBERS EXPERIENCES > MEMBER'S CYCLE RESULTS >  You think you know, but you have NO idea (blatant MTV diary ripoff)

## BigGreen

Well, after MUCH thought and consideration, encompassing all aspects of morality, physical health, realistic expectations and general feasibility, I have made the formal decision to cross that very blurred line between natural trainer and enhanced trainer. AR, of course, was nothing short of invaluable throughout this process, and will no doubt continue to be so throughout my cycle and beyond. There are a handful or so of individuals who are deserving of my everlasting thanks for their patience in answering PMs, helping to synthesize and organize my inane ideas, and generally offering up the entirety of their experience and wisdom. The unquestionably know who they are, and rather than play a very active role in inundating their inboxes with even more PMs, Ill let them remain anonymous. Just know that there isnt a chance in hell I wouldve done this, or been able to do this, without you guys.

In what I hope amounts to more than a feeble attempt to somehow reciprocate to present and future members, Im going to make every effort to keep a journal worthy of one Majorpecs and the standard he has set in this regard (all due respect, of course, to other journal keepers  LookingToCut comes to mind). So, without further adieu, the cycle for which I will be placing my order tonight (Ive elected to start the journal tonight so that some first timers viewing it will not only get a glimpse into an actual cycle from start to finish, but will have some insight into that no doubt nerve wracking period between ordering and waiting):

Weeks 1-15 Test Enanthate @500mg/wk
Weeks 1-15 Equipose @400 mg/wk 
Weeks 1-4 Dbol @30mg/day
Weeks 14-18 Winny @50mg/day
Liquidex throughout at .5mg/day
Enough Nolva on hand to start at day 2 if the situation arose
Clomid introduced at week 16, standard therapy to begin at the standard time
Liver protectants (standard)

Should things go VERY well while on, there is a very likely chance that I will include fina in the final 5-6 weeks as well. That is, however, a situation extremely contingent upon nothing less than a stellar reaction to the as is cycle. Im quite certain that the first reaction, and justifiably so in many cases, is that this cycle may either be too ambitious or simply too much for a juice virgin like myself. Admittedly, the goals on this cycle are somewhat ambitious in the sense that Ill be attempting to add some quality mass in the first twelve weeks or so and then take advantage of the anabolics in my system over the next handful of weeks to somewhat aggressively strip off the layers and cut up. Ill be the first to admit that, in many ways, Ill be attempting to eat my cake and have it to, proverbially speaking. I assure you, however, that this is not merely a cosmetic issue, but rather one of methodology. Ive come to believe that gains are most readily kept on a cycle that manipulates composition as opposed to pure mass. Furthermore, Im a believer in (relatively) longer cycles (in the way of 15-18 weeks) as the most efficient means in which to accomplish the above. I have bounced these ideas of off many people whose opinions I highly value, and have received conflicting reports as to the validity of my notions. That being the nature of this game (so much, Ive found is far more debatable than I would have initially believed), Ive elected to put faith into my original assertions, with the above cycle being the result. 

As a point of reference through which to measure what I hope will be a decent success, here are the beginning stats and measurements of relevance:
63, 247 lbs as of today. Ill be the first to admit I dont necessarily look 250ish. It is quite likely that I have the worlds most dense bones and/or carry my weight in an illusory manner such that it looks like less than it is (in my opinion).  
Arms measured at 17 even, as did calves (hey, proportions!) Thighs are sitting at 27. 
My max bench settled back down to 325 after a 9 week Westside routine (http://www.elitefitnesssystems.com/d...ng-program.htm) had temporarily bumped it up for a little while. My dead has always been relatively strong at a shade over 500lbs and the squat has been abysmal for some time, with 365 representing my best - though I go hamstrings to calves if that redeems me any  :LOL: 

Ill be taking before pictures immediately before crossing to the darkside and will post soon thereafter. The goals of the cycle are rather broad-based  chiefly, I hope to add some quality mass and fill out those rather long muscle bellies my parents saw fit to give me. I would like to tag some numbers onto my aspirations, but Id prefer this cycle to remain rather dynamic or organic (pick your adjective), rather like Majorpecs, who often made intelligent changes and tweaks throughout his progress. In short, then, the goal is to improve upon where I am right now in a quality manner. While I have my doubts that Im quite up against my genetic limit (three years of what I believe to be serious and intelligent training under my belt and having gone from 175 at high school graduation to a high of 255 four weeks ago  and Im 23 closely approaching 24) Ive made this decision nonetheless and am hoping for the best. Below will be my diet and training approach (brief, comprised mostly of links outlining my approach), which Ill post tomorrow (I have to collect all the links) and should offer some more insight into why I believe the aggressive cutting cycle at the end will ultimately assist in post-cycle recovery. And, for the remainder of the journal, Im making my solemn promise to make every attempt to toss aside my verbose tendencies and get right to the point  :LOL: .

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## majorpecs

BigGreen....I am going to be the first to say that you are going to have a very successful cycle. You have proven again and again that you are very intelligent. And I know that with the research you've put in, the notes you've taken, and the theories you've come up with>>>that your cycle is going to ROCK!!! Good luck bro, I'm very interested in how your cycle turns out..please keep us updated!!

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## dizzle

I agree, BigGreen, you will be a great success. I've seen you take your time out and research the hell out of gear instead of jumping right into it. I'm positive you will attain all your goals. Good Luck on your cycle.

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## BIG TEXAN

Good luck to ya and congrats on your descision to take AS. We are doing the same cycle just about and look forward to comparing gains and such. Again good luck.

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## daem

interested in reading about your upcoming endeavors my friend  :Smilie:  best of luck and cheers to your decision.

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## platinum

Good luck bro! Looks like a solid cycle. 

I look forward to reading your updates  :Smilie: 

Platinum

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## MacGyver

Awesome! Good luck to you. sounds like a great cycle.

One piece of advice to you for what its worth. get some prop to get you through the 3weeks waiting for the EQ to clear. Those three weeks suck seriously. I would if I wnated it to be perfect. 

Also if youre gonna do Fina I would do it in the beginning so that you have the rest of the cycle to harden it out. The gains I had were short lived even w/ a good recovery. Youll probably be better off saving it for another cycle.

My .2cents for ya.
Best of luck to ya.

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## BigGreen

Just thought I would make my first update (still havent organized my diet and workout notes into an organized piece that would make sense in a post, so theyre coming) just to add my two cents on the moral/ethical aspects that, in many ways, came pouring in as soon as I placed my order. Im going to share a little story with you that might illustrate the fact. When I was real young (maybe nine or ten) my friends and I had a kick ass tree fort, except it was on the ground (but still attached to trees). We stocked all kinds of cool things in that fort, and, as fate would have it, there came a point when we came across a stack of nudie mags on the side of the road. While we were still too young to understand the rewarding aspects of self pleasure, we did know enough to realize that naked women were cool and we liked them. We struck up a deal where we would leave them in the tree fort so any of the five of us could gaze upon them at any given time. Over the coming days, the stack of five slowly dissipated. There were five of us and now only four mags, then three, then two, then finally one. That final one stayed there for some time, maybe five days, and no one touched it. As I hadnt taken one home, I began to realize what was happening: there were five of us and five magazines. There was an implicit understanding that, rather than trudge through the snow in the cold to look at hooters, we would each just take one; unspoken but understood. The last one was the one I was supposed to take. Yes my friends, I took it  took it home and stashed it in that most classic of places: under the mattress. Immediately I felt somewhat bad. I knew I had hurt no one or violated any trust; it was more or less clear that each individual had taken one. However, I could not stop thinking that I had deviated from the norms of ethics and somehow betrayed my conscience, though I couldnt articulate how. 

To be honest, that same feeling came back upon placing my order. Im aware my undertaking this practice will hurt no one in the literal sense, and Ive always echoed Platos sentiment that a true form of cowardice lies in subscribing and adhering to laws that are unjust, so I am not quite aware where the feelings are stemming from. I suppose I technically ceased becoming a natural bodybuilder the moment I took methoxy-isoflavones, or used ECA to cut up  any number of things along those lines. Im just left with a deep sense that I have struck a Faustian bargain. Dont get me wrong, I am still greatly looking forward to my cycle. However, the cycle became MUCH more real the moment the order was placed. If there is a point to me opening up these thoughts to you (and I think its an important one) it is to let newbies know that there is a night and day difference between planning a cycle, tossing around ideas, etc and actually proactively beginning an actual cycle. It is one thing to abstractly state, then add winny at week twelve or Im consider prop as a kickstarter. It becomes QUITE another when you withdraw the money from the bank, place an order and take that big step towards actualizing these abstractions.

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## BIG TEXAN

Hey BigGreen, I think it's been awhile for many of us since we've gone through exactly what you said, and I must say, you put it down in words perfectly. It is quite the norm to feel the way you do and am glad to say they will surpass. The closer the day comes for you to begin the more you'll begin to feel like a kid on christmas eve. Congrats and good luck.

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## BigGreen

Actually writing out my diet plans in any detail, as Ive discovered in trying to get all the details down, would simply be too long to hold the interest of most people clicking here to learn more about the cycle specifically. I do, however, feel it is important to get out the bread and butter of my plans (the Cliff Notes, so to speak), as I think that some of my ideas may at the very least get people to think a bit more about the critical role diet plays in all aspects of the cycle. In many respects, my cycle began four weeks ago, when I changed my routine and diet to reflect certain changes I desired for the start date. In short, a good chunk of my diet plans at the beginning and end of the cycle borrow heavily from theories flushed out by Bill Phillips and Tbjorn Ackerdfelt (sp??, if I even have the name right) in the shape of the ABCDE diet theories a few years back, and more recently by TC Luoma with the Delta 1250 dieting program. The crux of each, elementarily speaking, attempts to both explain and take advantage of that rebound effect many of us may have noticed upon abandoning a cutting diet (the same phenomenon that has man a bodybuilder looking ten times better two days after competition than on the day of). Essentially, both diets recognize the VERY favorable anabolic environment created during the first 5-7 days of overfeeding following caloric deficits. Admittedly, the empirical evidence is not where Id like it to be, as many of the peer-reviewed studies validating this on the hormonal level involve untrained individuals, with the money shot study employing as subjects untrained women. The anecdotal evidence, however, is overwhelmingly positive, and likely something weve all experienced, so I will be putting faith into the fundamentals of this diet as a way to both begin and end the cycle most effectively. 

To begin, the final 10 days pre-cycle will consist of a rather dramatic caloric deficiency. The day I begin the cycle will also represent the beginning of a drastic overfeeding. Synthesizing the theories above, that should give me about seven days or so where my own body is producing the natural equivalent of prop. Thus, my own hormonal system will be used (in conjunction with d-bol) to jump start the cycle. Of course, I dont expect the effects to be the same as shooting prop, but I feel strongly that this is the most efficient way to naturally kickstart a cycle (a contradiction in terms of sort). Upon cessation of the seven days of drastic overfeeding, Ill cut back down and level off at a not so dramatic surplus so that I can then begin the gradual climb upward that will allow me to make this, in so much as possible, a quality bulk. 

Coming off of cycle, Ill once again utilize the principles of this diet in an attempt to encourage my own body to react as quickly as possible in the manner I need it to at that given moment. In the final five or six weeks of the cycle, I have mentioned I will be undertaking an aggressive cut (comparatively speaking) in the hopes that during my first seven days off dramatic overfeeding, which in a normal situation would result in a plethora of favorable hormonal spikes and an anabolic environment, will at the very least, through the very same pathways, and in conjunction with clomid therapy, exert similar effects on the system which might somewhat expedite the return of my own, natural anabolic system. Truthfully, I am not as confident in this portion of the application of these principles, as not a single study has been done (of which I am aware) in which the effects of overfeeding following caloric deprivation were done on a skewed to say nothing of shut down HPTA. However, it can certainly do no harm and I, for one, am more than willing to test this little experiment in order to see if there might be any validity in its ability to speed recovery to any degree. Of course, Ill have nothing to compare it to, this being my first, but over the years Ive become somewhat aware of how my body feels in extreme catabolic and anabolic states (within the scope of a natural trainer) so I suspect I can at the very least draw some conclusions. 

In the in between time, my diet will remain quite similar to the diet I employ during an weight gain period. This diet essentially mirrors the normal diet one would expect, though I make a concerted effort to drastically slash protein intake every seventh day (and, or course, do not train on that day), with each fourteenth day (so every other protein drop day) eliminating protein altogether for that day (fruit only). Many times in the past I have employed this dietary trick to creep over a plateau, and experience (and perusing my dietary journals) has shown me that it has tended towards largely positive results, though that day is not fun in the least. As soon as I organize it, Ill post my workout foundation, which more than a few of you will find familiar.

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## tolinka

I'm going to make it short. I think you planned out everything very well. It is great that you get into every single detail of you cycle and tell us about it. This is some very usefull information, that teaches alot of us how to prepare for a cycle, physcaly and mentaly. I'll be carefully following your diary, knowing that I would defenetly pick up alot of useful ideas.

You will always have a good word from me on you bro, props to you.

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## BigGreen

Big Texan...you are correct, it is amazing how quickly your conscious begins to clear and you start getting excited. Of course, it was the same with the nudie mag referenced above  :LOL: . 

To everyone else...I hope not to let you guys down in terms of keeping my entries informative and entertaining. I'd like the info i post to not only be informative for newcomers, but to offer something to those with far more experience than myself...that will represent the real challenge. For now, however, it's time to play the waiting game.........the waiting game sucks, let's play "Hungry Hungry Hippos" (Simpsons' reference for those wondering if I've cracked). I'll post my workout plan later on tonight should time allow, and then my next post shan't arrive until I've taken the plunge (literally and figuratively).

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## BIG TEXAN

BigGreen- Hell I've done more cycles than I can count on one hand and everytime I place an order I'll feel guilty....especially now having kids. I start thinking about the money I'm spending. I start wondering, could this money have been used for some shoes or cloths that they perphaps needed. But my wife will come to my aid and reassure me that money has already been set aside for the family needs and that I deserve my little treat. But once your gear is sitting in front of you all worries fly out the window and the fun begins. So far your journal is on key. I wished I was as blessed with words as you are. I like how detailed it has been so far, and only hope mine will in turn be as half as good. Once you start let's keep notes so we can compare results because it looks like we're doing pretty much the same cycle give or take a couple of things. Good luck to ya.

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## BigGreen

Well, its a little late in coming and Id like to think a few of you were actually wondering where it was and anxiously looked forward to the post, but this being a weekend, I cant say is that I think many people were inconvenienced or otherwise put out by me not posting my workout for the bulking phase of the cycle (the first twelve weeks). Anyway, for those of you have been falling Warriors progress, and Im certain there are more than a few, this workout split will seem rather familiar, as Ive more or less used his split as the rough draft or primary source from which I ultimately fashioned my workout scheme. MY VERSION is as follows; his is easily found in his progress threads should you be interested to see how the two deviate. In short, the major deviations occur in the holistic component of the workout  I, for whatever reason (be it delayed recuperative abilities in comparison to himself and others getting phenomenal results from this program or simply my muscles need for the implementation of drop sets and/or a break from the relatively lengthy duration encompassing his vision of holistic day) have, in the limited experience with such a split, found that every other holistic day serves me best if, rather than the GIANNNNT set Warrior recommends each holistic day, I simply incorporate a compartmentalized version in the form of a descending/strip set. It remains true to the principles of the holistic workout but essentially allows me to periodize it somewhat, to the extent that is feasible and practical. Secondly, Ive found over the years that I respond best to waves of microperiodized burst of intentional overtraining with a deliberate and planned tuning down of intensity to allow for recovery and recharging of sorts. This is best explained in a graph, which Ill attempt to attach below, though an interesting thread already in existence, elucidates the concept somewhat to the degree I hope to and provides some interesting discussion on the matter (http://www.anabolicreview.com/vbulle...light=holistic). The end result is that, largely based on instinct but appearing to be about every fifth week (so two intentional back off periods built into the twelve week bulking cycle  something that may prove unnecessary while on, or, even more significantly, not something Ill be able to accept psychologically at the time though I may intuitively know it is best for me. 

Basically, what Im left with after borrowing extensively from Warrior is this:

Three distinct workouts for each bodypart, each workout necessitating a distinct recuperation time: 1. German Volume Training, 2. Standard, 3. Holistic.

1. German Volume Training: 10 sets of 10 reps. Most literature advocates that a weight equal to 60%1RM be utilized (http://www.sover.net/~timw/gvt.htm). Ive found that for me personally, there tends to be a significant deviation depending on the bodypart. For chest, I am decidedly below, while for quads and hams, I tend to be able to carry a slightly higher weight through to completion. Of course, compound movements are used for maximum efficiency. REST REQUIRED: 3-4 days 

2. Standard: For me, this standard version of training represents 9 total sets for smaller bodyparts and 12 for larger. For the small its 3 exercises for 3 sets, and for the large its 4 exercises for 4 sets. Though this may resemble overtraining to some, keep in mind, that only one set per exercise is actually carried to failure. The other two serve as warm-ups (even after the initial exercise, as I try to vary my movements as much as humanly possible) and as mental preparation for the actual set that is to be taken to failure. For hammer curls for instance, I will warm up with 30s (taken nowhere near failure), move on to 45s (once again, nowhere near true failure but taken a bit closer than with the 30s) and finally to 60s (where I take it to absolute failure). These warm-ups serve a psychological purpose as well, in that I envision to the last minute detail what it might be like to take the set to failure, and get genuinely pissed at the fact I can not take that set to failure. As a result, by the time I get to the third set of the exercise (the actual set), I attack that weight with an absolute fury. It works for me and Id argue that its what has allowed me to develop a fairly solid mind-muscle connection, as the first two sets allow me to get into the muscle mentally, as Im not concerned with moving a lot of weight, just feeling the weight I have. The end result, in this case, is that for small bodyparts, a total of three sets to failure are performed, while for larger bodyparts, its a total of four sets. REST REQUIRED: 4-5 days 

3. Holistic: (this is a direct cut and paste from Warrior) 1) Power Movement (4-5 reps), 2) Rythmic Movement (12-15 reps), 3) Holistic (40 reps). Done non stop - on big Giant set. Extreme intensity. An example of Delt day was using 1) Hammer Front Press (4-5 reps), 2) Standing Side Laterals (12-15 reps), and 3) Upright rows (40 reps). Like I said, you go non stop from exercise to exercise - not necessarily ever needing a spot (unless safety is an issue) but dropping weight as you get fatigued. REST REQUIRED: Varies, though the average seems to play out at 6-7. I will generally rely entirely on biofeedback (call it instinctive training if youd like) to determine the rest period in this instance, particularly as I vary the intensity of holistic day somewhat. If, after holistic chest day, I feel ready to go again in five, Ill generally go with that feeling. 

The bodypart break down is as follows:
Chest: A, B, C, repeat
Back: A, B, C, repeat
Delts: A, B, A, C, repeat
Biceps: A, B, A, C, repeat
Triceps: A, B, A, C, repeat
Calves: A, B, A, C, repeat
Quads: A, B, C, repeat
Hams: A, B, A, C, repeated
Abs: B, B, C, repeat
Prioritized bodyparts (in this case back, chest and quadsquads largely because they recover fairly quickly for me) have their intensity variations condensed. Im not sure if Warriors original intention was for this particular methodology to be applied to lagging bodyparts, but I found that this shortening of the cycle seemed to do the trick. Unfortunately, as effective as shortening the cycle proved to be, I know that, even on, I could not withstand the physical onslaught of every single bodypart, and thus my whole body, being subjected to such unrelenting intensity. 
Again, as soon as I can put together a decent graph/visual, Ill attempt to demonstrate just how and why Ill be sticking an intentional rest period into the mix here at the micro level.

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## Warrior

Well in a few weeks will have to change your username to BiggerGreen  :Big Grin: 

Just a side note on Holistic training. It is Holistic in the sense that the one big giant set completely fatiques the muscle group by switching between slow-twitch and fast-twitch fibers. You bounce around from rep ranges of very low and heavy to high reps with lighter weight. You can do this for one big giant set lasting about 20-30 minutes because your fibers that help you generate expolisiveness rest when you switch to something higher rep. How you wrote the 40 reps as "holistic" is not correct. The entire workout is holisitic because of how it burns out the muscle group in it's entirety. Very good for training for size... I have had people literally shake my hand after doing these days. You sweat hard and a many a times I had to get something in me from the vending machine (water, Gatorade, Powerade, fruit juice...) to keep me from puking all over the Leg Press  :Wink/Grin: 

But - if you do drop sets or what not, like you mention - that's not a holistic workout. You are using an alternate day for etreme intensity - but you aren't using the Holistic approach to training for hypertrophy.

For your split - I would suggest doing more high intensity days (C) for delts. I have had great results off an A, B, C order. My Delts seem to respond the best to more intensity and holistic-type training. Back as well. Chest seems to do better with more GVT days (A), A, B, A, C. I know you have bodyparts outlined to prioritze - but from my personal feedback - adding in more Holistic/higher intensity days isn't _always_ the best way to do it. Rather focus on what bodypart is worked out first, rest days and giving those bodyparts your 100 percent attention.

But - and I mean BUT - these are from my own records - and I haven't known anyone else to stick to this program besides myself to get more feedback. Most people do one of those Holistic days with me and never ask to meet me in the gym again  :Don't know:  - BUT I look forward to how you do. Deffinitly a good split while "on"  :Big Grin:  Eat well, drink plenty of water and get enough rest... remember naps are for babies - POWER NAPS are for tough guys!

But this is an advanced split that will require a ledger to keep records and teach you a lot about your system and recovery ability - and enhance that "insticitve" ability. Enjoooooy  :Big Grin:

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## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by Warrior_ 
> *How you wrote the 40 reps as "holistic" is not correct. The entire workout is holisitic because of how it burns out the muscle group in it's entirety.*


Ooops, I didn't even catch that. But, truth be told, the entirety of that description I was too lazy to type, so I just cut and pasted it from your description (and I do give credit at the beginning of the description, so no copyright laws were violated). The info was "taken" from your January 10 posting in this thread: http://anabolicreview.com/vbulletin/...istic+flexion. 

And, you're definitely correct in that my strip set method shouldn't really fall under the holistic definition, per se. However, in doing it, I try to remain true to the approach of hitting all fibers as deeply as possible: for a bench strip set I start with a weight I can manage for 2-3 reps as a starting point, strip only twenty pounds, go again with ZERO rest, then proceed to strip about 30-50 pounds at a clip until I'm down to the bar, which lately i've been able to manage for near forty reps (well, low 30's to be honest). I tried to convey that the holistic was more a term for the foundation of the day in question (your method described) by trying to put "holistic" in quotes while describing this (or, I hope I did...i'll have to reread), as it's often every third, though frequently every other, that I "regress" to this variety of training on this day...though some bodyparts (quads, for example) I never deviate from the standard "C" day. Thanks for clearing up the discrepancies nonetheless - I often articulate theories for my training (and not just in this instance) which happen to coincide with the proven theories and corresponding scientific literature, but I lack the formal vernacular to convey those ideas in a manner consistent with the dominant language used to express these ideas. I suppose I could consider myself lucky that much of my instinctive beliefs and feelings as they relate to training seem to correlate with tried and true scientific and kineseological fact, though at the same time there's a certain frustration in being unable discuss these ideas on the same level as yourself and others for lack of terminology. Well, I'm here to learn, so hopefully I can change that....if I can get to a decent portion of your understanding of the relationship between muscle growth, strength and training principles, I'll be more than content.

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## majorpecs

BigGreen, once again I'm impressed by your research and well thought out plan of attack for your plunge to the dark side. I've no doubt that using the methods you described you are gonna get SWOLE!!!

Is there a book or online resource on the Holistic training method? I've trained extensively for strength and don't fully understand how to train for hypertrophy rather than for strength.

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## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by majorpecs_ 
> *
> 
> Is there a book or online resource on the Holistic training method? I've trained extensively for strength and don't fully understand how to train for hypertrophy rather than for strength.*


Thanks for the encouraging words...I want to say that Mel Siff goes into it a bit, as does tudor bompa. Let me dig through my favorites for some links that I know i have floating around. It's real interesting stuff. Also, that's Warrior's "field of expertise"...or at the very least something he knows VERY well; i'm sure he'll chime in.

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## Warrior

> _Originally posted by majorpecs_ 
> *Is there a book or online resource on the Holistic training method? I've trained extensively for strength and don't fully understand how to train for hypertrophy rather than for strength.*


Dr. Fred Hatfield's Hardcore Bodybuilding, A Scientific Approach



He gives a very good scientific description on training for hypertrophy (Holistic too) and periodization. A very good read - a must read IMO.

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## BigGreen

Well, "Before" pics should be up this week, and I expect my delivery by week's end as well...the cycle should begin on Monday  :Big Grin:  

And, while I know I gave my word that there would be no more postings until the cycle began (as to avoid watering down the diary), I've come across something of a connundrum that I think many people new to aas might like to hear articulated, and those with experience might be willing to chime in. 

Anyway, one of the big factors in my ultimately electing to utilize AAS was my belief that I had a very respectable grasp on training, particularly with regards to how my body responds, if not training philosophies in general. Additionally, armed with that knowledge, I always prided myself on getting the absolute most out of each set, with an enviable mind-muscle connection and a stalwart discipline in my ability to refrain from working my ego as opposed to my muscles. The last week or so, however, my workouts have been better than ever - every rep is deep and purposeful, and I'm feeling the pump deeper in the muscle bellies than I ever have before. As cheesey and cliched as it sounds, I truly have felt this week as though I "AM THE REP" while performing it. This would normally be good news...hell, great news. 

But, the bothersome aspect of it is that, as mentioned above, I had believed up until a few days ago, that I possessed a type of mind-muscle connection that would necessitate years of additional training before it would make a dramatic leap...and here I have made this dramatic leap in a week or so!? Yes it is the excitement of the upcoming cycle, there's no doubt about that, but I am left with the nagging feeling that, if the simple excitement and subsequent placebo effect of using AAS has propelled my workouts to this degree, do I really have the grasp on training principles and approaches that I thought I possessed? If not, do I have any business using AAS?

Don't get me wrong, I am quite happy with this development and am embracing it, but it epitomizes yet another contradiction of sorts that seems inherent in this "game" and certainly has me reconstructing where it is I stand. I'll still be going through with the cycle, as it still appears to make sense, but to all those considering aas, as well as those having used (perhaps unwisely, perhaps with great effect) in the past, I'd urge you all to introspectively dwell on the manner in which their use (even their impending use) creates new "pockets of mentality and identity". It is certainly something worth examining, and I hope to flush it out over the course of this journal. I'll catch you all later with pics...though I'm dreading throwing them up for a variety of reasons.

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## majorpecs

BigGreen...I just think that we are always learning new things that change the way we think about stuff.....our body is a very complex mahcine that I believe is always changing and I think these discoveries will continue to happen as long as you strive to be the most efficient bodybuilder you can be.........

Do your cycle....get big..and stop overanalyzing..... :Wink: You are almost too smart for your own good...hehehe

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## BigGreen

I just thought I would add this for your collective entertainment tonight. Furthermore, this might serve as a nice little addition for the newbies, as this aspect of the steroid game seems to rarely come up in such discussions. That being said, if in fact you are preparing to pay through Western Union, or any other financial medium through which you will be forced to interact with even one other person, be prepared for a bit of paranoia. Below are two versions of my money wire experience: version 1 (the "what actually happened" version) and version 2 (the "what shit was going through my head and how I thought it was happening" version). Here they are:

VERSION 1: 
I approached the service desk at the supermarket, as it also serves as a WU branch office. The young lady took my form and attempted to enter the info into the computer. Her access number, as she was new, apparently had not been entered into the system, so she was required to summon another customer service rep to complete the transaction. This new, older-aged rep continued the transaction, completed it, then noticed she forgot to enter the test question into the computer, and was forced to call it in. She had to give her access number, as well as the branch office's numerical code, over the phone to add the question. I then received my receipt and went merrily on my way. 

VERSION 2: (my thoughts are in parantheses)
I approached the service desk at the supermarket, as it also serves as a WU branch office. The young lady took my form and attempted to enter the info into the computer. Her access number, as she was new, apparently had not been entered into the system, so she was required to summon another customer service rep to complete the transaction (This was clearly a bullshit deep cover agent tactic and this was the accepted code for bringing in a senior agent to rattle me. Should I knock over the free cheese sample tray and get the fuck out of here? Maybe take some of the chili sauce from the rack only feet away, blind the agent and screw outta there? I'll keep cool and see where this goes...they can't break me this easily). This new, older-aged rep continued the transaction (after, of course, coming out from behind a one way mirrored window. Sure, other customers might think it's just a mirror, but I KNEW there were about six or seven federal agents back there, salivating at the thought of taking me, now a hardened criminal conspirator, down. That's just what some bastard needs for his promotion...nailing me. I'm getting a little nervous now), completed it, then noticed she forgot to enter the test question into the computer, and was forced to call it in (I see, a delay tactic. There are probably helicopters overhead. I swore I'd never kill again, but now it's apparent there's only one way out of here for me. Of course, I have to pretend I'm not on to her and that I think she's really just a "normal" supermarket employee who screwed up a transaction. But I know better...go ahead, make the first move, you may have a license to kill, but I still have this chili sauce. My fingers glazed over the chili sauce jar, becoming one with what would likely serve as my only weapon when shit went down in this sting operation). She had to give her access number, as well as the branch office's numerical code, over the phone to add the question (What kind of amateur do they think I am? I'm onto their game....call me the jackal, I'm like the wind baby. I'm starting to sweat now. She's calm and composed. Obviously these numbers are code that I'm not to be taken down until I leave the building. Probably giving the SWAT team time to arrive. It's obvious to them that I'm was ordering gear...this guy's probably flagged. No way are they gonna have a regular agent try to take down a bro who might have fina rage! So that's the game they wanna play, they're waiting for the SWAT team now). I then received my receipt and went merrily on my way (I could see now that we were involved in a delicate chess game of sorts. With SWAT outside and the agents in the building now no doubt aware I was onto them, the stakes had risen. I wander the store...weighing my options. By the frozen foods section I find myself crafting a plan to get into the ventilation ducts. In baked goods I start to evaluate who might make a good hostage. A giant roller with sheets upon sheets of cookies on it rolls by...could I hide on the bottom rack as in prison movies? Maybe I'd have to kill the cookie guy, take his uniform, and walk out, assuming his identity...safe until they found the cookie guy knocked out in my clothes. But by then fools I'll be in Canada....ahahahahahahahah).

See my point? I'm being humorous here, or trying at least, but it did feel like that for a second or two. Between her calling in the test question, the first associate calling for backup, and the slew of numerical
codes being tossed about....plus this being the first time not including alcohol consumption that I've EVER broken the law and I was going out of my head. I'd make one shitty secret agent that's for sure.  :LOL:

----------


## BLOOD

your quite imaginative to say the least, good luck on your cycle.

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## BigGreen

Have you ever ordered something, either through the internet or mail-order-catalog? Well, you know that feeling of anticipation that comes with it, especially if it's something that is either needed in a hurry or you were especially looking forward to? Well, as I'm sure everyone with a cycle under their belt knows, this apprehension and anxiexty is truly rivaled (in my experience) by those fantastical childhood memories involving Santa Clause or some similar construction OR those definitive life moments such as graduations, career changes (i imagine) and other such happenings where you're certain life experiences down the road will come to be classified as "before this" and "after this". Now add to that the fact that no matter how slim the chances actually are, you can't help but wonder if there's a mail inspector plotting your demise or your mailman is currently being briefed on how to "act normal" in the midst of a controlled delivery  :LOL: 

Quite seriously, though, I've been returning to my apartment the last two afternoons absolutely dying to see a package left on the front door, but with no such event yet bearing out. Tragically, the anxiety is likely stressing me to the point I'm in a catabolic state...not to mention that this "waiting game" has me, as it will no doubt have many of you yet to have taken this step, second guessing my decision in many ways (as evidenced above in a few posts). Truth be told, I suspect this will be the toughest portion of the actual cycle (mentally speaking). I don't believe sticking myself will be a big deal (though we'll know for sure soon enough), and, despite my tale above, the WU transfer wasn't nearly that bad...it was more a comedic effort than anything else. Well, hopefully by the time I post next, my stuff will have arrived, and before pics will be posted along with the tales of my first self-administration. I guess it's about time this thread got interesting.

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## BigGreen

I can realistically measure in weeks how far away I am from achieving a longtime dream of mine and getting my degree from an Ivy League institution. Despite this fact, however, this education, while it has done much to expand my intellectual mindset and academic prowess as it were, has done nothing to make me a more rational and/or competent being in day-to-day activities, as evidenced by the events of the last few hours. While I don't like my stupidity to be known, I think this experience is an essential part of my experience, and therefore a necessary additon should I continue to endeavor to produce an honest and accurate journal. 

I returned from school today at 7:00pm to find a package on my front porch steps that had not been there when I left at 3:00. This seemed a bit odd to me, as my mail, in the year and a half I've lived here, has never come after 1:00 in the afternoon. Just to be safe, I ignored the package as I walked into the house, which would have appeared normal enough, as my arms were full of books, papers and other scholarly material. I went inside, surveyed the street from a window just to ensure there was nothing unusual (like a guy on the park bench pretending to read a newspaper)...already I'm paranoid. By the time I finally muster up the courage to go pick it up off the steps, a phone company van pulls up (it's 8:00pm...and I know from experience that the phone company is next to impossible to get a hold of after 5:00, so how could they possibly be working?). I wait a few and the thing stays there for a while, seemingly doing very little. I go out my side door and across the street to the convenience store to pick up some milk. As I leave the house, like clockwork the van pulls away. Now I'm freaking out. I PM a couple of trusted bros from the board, IM another and PM a few who seem to know their shit. Paranoid as I am, I don't stop to think that the feds would be monitoring my postings and such. 

Anyway, after getting the "go-ahead" from the AR brotherhood, I go and pick it up, heart racing. I get it in the house, brace myself for the oncoming wave of DEA agents, and, when it doesn't come, sneak a peak at the address label. I had the shades pulled in my place, sweating my balls off for two hours over my F*CKING pinz!!!!!!!!!!! The single most anti-climactic moment of my life, no doubt about it. 

Yes, that was somewhat cathartic to get out, but I still feel foolish nonetheless. However, I maintain that this is an aspect all newbies should be aware of (and I'm hoping they're reading my journal). A number of things happened that probably happen every single day. The bitch of it is, you don't notice a damn thing until you're waiting for the delivery of a controlled substance, at which point you become the single most observant mofo on the planet...to, as you can see, your inevitable detriment. Anyway, thanks to those who talked me through it...i was probably the first guy ever to need that kind of support to get his darts.  :LOL: 

EDIT: by the way, I stumbled across this thread while I was being all scared, for those who read this post, it might serve as a logical "next step" in the learning process:
Good Read on Controlled Deliveries

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## WS6_KID

I've never read so much in my life! Good thread  :Smilie:

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## BUYLONGTERM

Bro, I have to say, You are truly amazing!!!!! You seriously put a lot of time and effort into this. I'm soooo glad you did your research!!! You are a class act, and definitely a great addition to the board!!!!!! IT WAS ONLY PINS!!!!!!!! I can't believe it!!!!!!!! Best of luck, stay in touch....

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## majorpecs

Pins.......$11
Shipping......$5


BigGreen having 4 hours of anxiety over a package of PINZ on his porch...Priceless!!
 :LOL:   :LOL:   :LOL:

----------


## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by majorpecs_ 
> [B
> 
> BigGreen having 4 hours of anxiety over a package of PINZ on his porch...Priceless!!
>    [/B]


4 hours?! I'm not some kind of paranoid freak or anything! It was more like 3 hours and 45 minutes  :Wink:  Though it felt like six or seven. Hopefully it's out of my system so that when the real deal comes, I'll just grab it waltz in like I don't have a care in the world.

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## BIG TEXAN

:ROFLOL:  Thanks BG! I needed this god laugh this morning. I think we've all had experiences like that. I can tell you some heart pounding stories from my times of bringing gear across the border every other weekend to the point of going to get my most recent gear and wondering if these guys weren't setting me up. Hey Big.....I think yoga may help calm ya down some. :LOL:  Good luck bro...so far your journal has not only been educational, but entertaining as well.

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## Bulldog5.0

My gear was delivered as I arrived home froam class one day- I actually saw the mailman pull it out of his pouch and go to put it in the box. I was like "hey I'll take that!" He looked at it and goes "Gee, there's no name on it" with a note of suspicion in his voice. I just told him "I know what it is", grabbed it, and went inside. No biggie. I was so excited about getting it that I gave two shits what he thought.

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## TheyoungJason

Very well thought out and well done Big Green... your cycle will surely be a success with all the time you've put into it... good luck.

-THE YOUNG JASON

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## BigGreen

A question for you all....as a bit of a "problem" has arisen. My stuff arrived (and, can you believe, after all this worry about grabbing my pack, my gf's mom came to visit and saw it on the porch and brought it in before I even came home?) but I was out my liquidex, which is being shipped now as there was some sort of mix up. Given my cycle outlined above, is it foolish to start at all until the dex arrives, or will I be "cool" for the 2-4 days it takes to arrive? I imagine I'd technically be okay, but I don't want to violate a golden rule of starting without EVERYTHING on hand...however, I'm so damn eager to start. Any thoughts?

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## majorpecs

Dude...you'll be coool......GO FOR IT!! The moment we have all been waiting for needs not to be delayed anymore!!!!

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## Bulldog5.0

I'd say to go for it if you are very confident in your source. Two-to-four days isn't much. Then again, shit happens. I'm 4 weeks into my test prop/EQ cycle and haven't even used the arimidex or nolva I bought because I have no symptoms of gyno, bloat or anything else.

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## BIG TEXAN

I agree, if you have total confidence in your source than go ahead and start, especially if it'll only be like 4 days. Good luck BG!

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## platinum

Great thread. Thanks for keeping it updated.

I would go ahead and start IF you're confident your source will deliver the dex. 

Platinum

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## BigGreen

Yes, it's true, I took the final step today with a 2cc injection into the right quad and 35mg worth of dbol ! To anyone who has ever doubted the existence and/or dramatic effectiveness of the placebo effect, you need look no further than AAS to see it in full effect, as I so wonderfully discovered throughout the course of today's events. While I'm fully aware that even the mighty dbol doesn't manage to "do its thing" in the span of only 8 hours, not only did i feel "bigger" all day, but all the weights felt just a little bit lighter at the gym tonight. However, with this bonus came a decided drawback as well. The very same overly acute awareness that allowed me to (if only momentarily) believe phone company vans were commandeered as part of some elaborate scheme against me also has me being perhaps overly deligent in looking out for sides. I suspect this is something every first time user experiences: within moments of taking my first 10mg of dbol, I actually "felt" my face bloating. Within hours of the second dose, I was convinced gyno was coming. Of course, I was able to remain rational and dismiss these overreactions as just that, but, nevertheless, I think it warrants mention, as I'm a firm believer that virtually every first time user experiences this final phase of self doubt that manifests in the emergence of imagined sides. 

All that being said, however, the experience has been largely positive thus far. Like a little school girl that I am, I iced the injection area first and it literally slid right in with very little effort. Granted, my hands were shaking a bit, being my first time and all, so we'll see how it feels in the A.M. Though, to back up for a moment, something that is often overlooked in day-to-day discussion and the dispensing of advice is just how difficult it can be withdraw the oil from the vial...it took me a good ten minutes; and while I'm assuming I'll become more "efficient", the posts on this board and others rarely touch on the fact it is anything but effortless. In truth, it proved to be the most difficult part of the process for me. 

Anyway, as I want to make a concerted effort to keep these posts short and readable, I'll get to the BIG point that arose today. Given the monumental "psych up" I got today simply as a result of my first administration, I have to believe, as is often admonished upon us first timers, that the most difficult part of embracing and incorporating AAS into your life is saying goodbye. Given the absolute rush, though it's a long 18 weeks off, I already have to face the fact that the letdown coming off (psychologically speaking) will very likely be comparable (though in the opposite manner desired) to getting on...something which will be difficult to deal with, to say the least. Additionally, I must also prepare myself for the fact that, physiologically, the type of actual gains conducive to the initial rush I felt today are just not feasible...yet another psychological aspect that is often only mentioned in passing. 

Well, I'm out....now it's time to keep this thread updated and alive with the real "sticky icky" to quote Snoop. 

PS: As you can tell, given the good word of my source, I've elected to begin the cycle without dex (though I have the nolva in case), as it is slated to arrive in the next couple of days. 

BG

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## BIG TEXAN

Congrats BG, you've now entered the "other side".  :LOL:  You are right in your idea of what coming off will be like. It can get very depressing and have known many guys run out and ge more in fear of coming off and spend several cycles on before finally coming off and crashing. Try not to tink about it for that's several weeks away and enjoy the bebefits of having AS pumping through your system now. Best of luck to ya, and yes withdrawing from the vials will become easier as you go.

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## BigGreen

UPDATE: Yes, the injection site is pretty damn sore now that it's 9:00am. It looks as though I may have to schedule my leg days around injections, cuz right now I couldn't do a deep squat to save my life.

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## dizzle

about the oil withdrawing slow. Are you injected air into the bottle first? Also, I like to use an 18 gauge needle to draw, then switch up to a 25g. Definetly saves you time.

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## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by dizzle_ 
> *about the oil withdrawing slow. Are you injected air into the bottle first? Also, I like to use an 18 gauge needle to draw, then switch up to a 25g. Definetly saves you time.*


I withdraw and shoot (well, all in the singular form at present, but plan to keep it up) with a 23g - the "all purpose size". With regards to shooting air in first, I mixed test and eq in the same syringe, the test was first, and went in easy as a result of the air going in first. The eq, on the other hand, was a bitch, to say the least. Next time, I may toy with the idea of using a "spare" syringe (i have PLENTY) to shoot some air in first to get the same effect...should there be sufficient room on a 10ml vial for two needles and syringes to cohabitate.

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## BigGreen

I hesitated to mention this in my update last night, as I wrote it off as hypochondric overreaction resulting from my perusing of the dbol side effect threads. As these "sides" (i still hesitate to label them as sides), however, have persisted for the last 48 hours, I'm starting to believe that they are legitimate effects of some kind...most likely attributed to the dbol(?). Namely, three things have occurred that are a bit troubling at present:
1. Intense Headaches
2. Severe "Drowsiness"
3. Incredible Appetite Supression (this is a surprising one).

Anyway, the headaches were to be expected, and I may have dismissed them as placebo, but I've undertaken two comparably mild workouts in the two days I've been on and the headaches became much, much more intense during this time period. I'm happy to report that they appear to have been gradually abating, but they are there nonetheless. A bit earlier than expected perhaps, but it does appear to "jive" with the experiences of others. (click here for a past discussion of the subject) 

Also, in the above referenced hyperlink, IronHorse mentions a friend battling drowsiness while on dbol. During the past two days (and prior to reading this particular thread...so I can't readily dismiss it as placebo induced, as I wasn't aware of this particular side) drowsy has been an understatement. I'm not tired to the point I can't function, but as IronHorse states, I feel like I could fall asleep at any time during the day. This morning for example, after going to bed at a little past midnight last night, I woke up at 10:00am and went back to bed at 11:30am...not waking up again until 3:00. At 6:00 i took yet another hour nap before the gym! 

Lastly, and this is one I'm not finding in past posts and discussions, my appetite has dropped off precipitously. While there's no real quantative number to put on one's desire to eat that I'm aware of, I'd guesstimate that my appetite has decreased by almost one half! The past two days have left me with a minimal desire for solid food, and if it weren't for MRPs and protein powder, I'd be having an extremely difficult time getting my planned calories. This is the perplexing one and the one i would like some feedback on. Has ANYONE experienced ANYTHING similar? 

Well, I had planned on weighing myself every 7th day, but as the sides seem to be real, I'm going to (pseudo)verify this by hoping on the scale tomorrow at the gym to see if bodyweight has risen in step with what I perceive to be sides indicating the stuff has at least begun to act.

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## BIG TEXAN

Man....hypochondriac huh :LOL: . Well the headaches seem normal and will pass. The drowsiness, I've never heard aboutthis one before. The appetite suppresion, I know when I'm on and start gettin bloated it makes me uncomfortable and somehow kills the hunger and I end up forcing myself to eat. Not sure if that's the case with you since it's only been a matter of days.

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## platinum

Hi BigGreen,
I'm on dbol right now myself, day four. My headaches usually go away around today of day five. I have experienced the loss of appetite you write of. I have to force food down. It's bad enough for me that once I'm done using the little dbol I have left, I don't think I'll use it again. 
I'm also very drowsy, but I did just switch my cardio workout to early mornings this week, so that may be the culprit there. 


Platinum

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## BigGreen

Well, I now have four full days of cycling under my belt. The headaches have gotten MUCH better, only occurring during workouts, and as much as I can deal with that fact, if in fact the other "sides" (lack of appetite and drowsiness) can eventually be traced back to the dbol , this may be the first and last time I incorporate it. I have literally never been so drowsy throughout the entire day like this at any point in my life, and I once battled a six month case of mono! Additionally, in these four days I have already added about six pounds, believe it or not, but I'd wager that not a single ounce of it is muscle (yet) as I absolutely smoothed over like you wouldn't believe one could do in a matter of only four days without some sort of allergic reaction being the culprit. On the plus side, however, if I seem so "prone" to these apparent sides, I may likely (and hopefully) be one of those fortunate few who respond especially well to AAS. It's waaaay to early to tell, though the notion does help me come to terms with the drowsiness and appetite loss. 

I just moments ago completed my second shot, and there was a slight dissapointment, however misplaced, in the fact that I only have 28 left  :Frown:  . On the very plus side, withrawing was vastly easier this go around, as I injected about 150% of the volume I wished to withdraw worth of air into the vial, and the stuff just flowed as a result. If there's one thing I'm really hoping for with shot number two, it's that the soreness isn't present to the same degree that came with my first shot. I was very conscious of being VERY steady on this one, so I'm hoping that I won't go through that experience again, as I'm just today able to walk without a bit of a limp after the tuesday shot. 

Lastly, since I've had a few people ask...before pics are forthcoming. My digital camera (a function of one of the old little tape camcorders) refuses to communicate with my new computer, since the cam was made back in 1999 or something (the brochure has a big disclaimer on how it will be ready for the Y2K bug  :LOL:  if you can believe that). I ordered a new FujiPix camera and will snap photos as soon as it arrives. However, I fear they won't be all they could have been as, like I mentioned, the dbol has smoothed me over in a BIG way, and, judging by the mirror, I'd actually, if being completely honest, have to concede that I actually look noticeably less muscular and smaller than I did upon beginning the cycle. Of course, that's an illusion, one which I firmly expect to reverse itself in the coming weeks. I'm out...happy reading.

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## 956Vette

Best of luck to you BigGreen! Sounds like your next few months will be amazing!

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## BigGreen

I am VERY happy to report that my hunger is back and in full effect. For a while, I was worried that I might have to wait for the much-talked-about eq hunger to kick in before I'd get the ol' appetite back, but it came back in a big way over the last 36 hours or so. How much, you ask? Well, this morning I knocked back a dozen eggs (only four yolks though), chased that withtwo whole-wheat waffles a glass of grapefruit juice and a banana. After getting out of the shower I was still so damn hungry that I mixed up 40 grams of whey with a nice big glass of 1% chocolate milk. I haven't figured out the calories for the meal yet, but they've gotta be up there....gahd it felt good to eat that way again. 

The drowsiness is still here, but abating somewhat, and it appears that most anecdotal accounts of dbol headaches (and, apparently, the drowsiness and lack of hunger that others have concurred on) running their course after about 5-10 days seems to be the case...now it's time to reap the positive benefits of the the dbol!

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## BIG TEXAN

Best of luck BG!!!! Glad you got that hunger back....just wait for the eq to kick. You'll never quit eating than! :LOL:

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## BigGreen

Start Weight: 241
Current Weight: 250

Now, before anyone gets excited, there are two VERY significant disclaimers that are (a substantial) part and parcel of this gain: 
1. About four or five weeks ago, I weighed 250 but wanted to pare off some bodyfat prior to beginning the cyle. Thus, I suspect that simply eating "anabolic " again would have quickly propelled me back up to this weight. 250 seems to be a very "natural" weight for me...whether I let myself go to shit (as I did after my battle with mono) or bust my ass in the gym, 250 seems to be where my body "likes" to be, regardless of the composition (though the real trick is to see 250 at under 10%...then we'll see if the theory holds). As such, the true test of this cycle will be not only how far it takes me over 250, but of what quality this leap is, as my body, as much as it likes to be 250, fiercely resists going over that point, and the two times I've climbed over it more than a pound or two has usually resulted in a significant decrease in definition and even well bing.
2. As many of my previous posts discuss, the negative sides of dbol appear to have smacked me right in the face...and hard! Along those lines, the bloat factor, not to be left out, also reared its head. The first three days of dbol saw an absolute flood of water into the subcutaneous regions of my skin, and for that reason, my frank analysis of my "gains" thus far would lead me to conclude that they are nearly all water at this point. Only one week in, though, I'm not overly concerned, as I expect big things in the coming weeks. 

Finally, before signing off, I just wanted to add a little commentary to the newbies and juice virgins reading. While all aspects of the cycle and the time immediately surrounding it can be mentally difficult (post-cycle depression, the decision to use, so on and so forth) an aspect that doesn't get much attention, but is proving very difficult, is the immediate beginnings of the cycle. While it's true you've jumped over many of the hurdles by the end of the first week: you've managed to secure illegal goods, jab yourself and break the law, you are still very much in some sort of weird "ANABOLIC LIMBO" so to speak. You're a "user", for sure, and mentally you feel that "power", but physically, as I've mentioned in previous posts, there's simply no way the changes can remotely compare with the mental and psychological rush you experience...all of which creates a somewhat troubling environment. You wonder if your stuff is fake, if you're one of those unlucky few who just don't respond to AAS, or if you're doing something wrong. The rational side knows that AAS are not a magic pill, and that they are NOT supposed to "work" this fast, yet (again) that fails to coincide with your mental state. I don't know if that is making sense....maybe it doesn't until you've been there, or maybe I'm the only one. Anyone??

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## BigGreen

With regards to the "anabolic purgatory" or "limbo" I mentioned in my last update, another powerful aspect of this is that I am almost afraid to test my strength in the gym, as, if it isn't heading decidedly and noticeably upwards, I will also be struck (only one week in) by the fact that the cycle is already a "failure", though I know that not to be the case. I think it can be reduced to the fact that you invest so much of yourself into a cycle, in between making that decision to become an unlawful citizen and the anxiety of finding a reliable source that this time period where you have definitively taken that step but can't yet be sure if it is going to pan out as planned (or even close) serves to remind you (and I'm going to get slightly philosophical here) that you simply are not in control of as much as you might believe, and are in fact a very fallible human, capable of making erroneous decisions based on gross indiscretion. This may hold particularly true for those in my age group/demographic, who have essentially had a large majority of their lives readily mapped out (elementary school, high school, then college) and have not yet had to face the uncertainties of "the real world". Whoooh, I'm rambling.

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## rexboy

Ah, limbo. The state of nothing, yet everything. I am on the verge of starting my cycle and have many thoughts on hand. The exercise physiologist in me says that these chemicals are basically proven to work and break the plateau to a new existence, yet, the puzzle of the pecular institution of AS usage remains. Though I am hurting no one but myself, am I making a mistake, and is it truly breaking the law? But by doing this "wrong" I am achieving something that I can only describe as right. I refuse to let genetics stand in the way of progression any longer - though I know I have the genes to be great with the use of AS. Family members have reached heights of super human strength with intelligent training, solid basics and die hard determination with the tunnel vision of a 1 sided goal. This goal being to strive for every ounce of strength and muscle they could attain, never stopping. Still, the warnings hang heavy with the horror stories and the outside chance of no end product. If this goal is indeed ever changing, then what did I start all those years ago? What am I starting now? The end is only visable when the road stops. The want to be the best is uncontrollable.
I can no longer wait and will take the plunge this upcomming monday, and will put to rest the fear and some of the wonder.... only to make a new question arise... 'How far can I go now?'

How far can we go....

Hang in there mate.

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## David B.

Where are the pictures?

--dnb

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## David B.

> _Originally posted by BigGreen_ 
> *With regards to the "anabolic purgatory" or "limbo" I mentioned in my last update, another powerful aspect of this is that I am almost afraid to test my strength in the gym, as, if it isn't heading decidedly and noticeably upwards, I will also be struck (only one week in) by the fact that the cycle is already a "failure", though I know that not to be the case.*


Go for it. As long as you're on d-bol, you should be hitting new PBs on every lift every week. It'll make you feel like superman.

--dnb

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## TheyoungJason

well biggreen 9 lbs in one week is still very impressive. keep up the great work! also how is strength?

----post pics!

-the young Jason

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## daem

whats up brother, just wanted to check in on the thread and see whats going on thus far.

glad to see the dbol is doing its thing so far  :Smilie: 

secondly, i decided that i am going to incorporate fina into my cycle for strength reasons. sat around playing chemist today converting and i got 57ml out of a 6g kit...exactly what i need for 8 weeks at a concentration of around 100mg/ml if my math skills are still intact. can't wait to hit that first shot in week 10  :Smilie:  

let me know if you are going to run fina as well.

cheers.

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## BIG TEXAN

BG....update time brother, it's been a couple of days now. Don't be getting lazy on us. :LOL:

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## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by David B._ 
> *Where are the pictures?
> 
> --dnb*


I have ordered a new digital camera (it was from amazon) and it has yet to arrive...I believe because I also ordered books with it that have held up shipping. The old one, as I mentioned above, actually has a Y2K compliance statement in the manual (as it was bought in 1999) and doesn't communicate with my new computer for whatever reason, so I have to wait for the new one or find a friend with a comp it does communicate with. The day the new one comes I will be posting "before" pics, and I expect it to arrive any day now. Believe me, it's killing me that it isn't here yet. As referenced above, the dbol has really smoothed me over to a degree I didn't expect, and, as such, I'll reiterate the fact that this water weight actually makes me LOOK smaller than I was when I started the cycle a week and some change ago, as a good deal of whatver definition I had (and it wasn't a whole lot to begin with) went decidedly south. So, with each passing day, I feel a little more uneasy about posting pics, as I looked better at the beginning of the cycle. My plan right now is to post "before" pics, "after bulking" pics and "after cycle" pics (as the latter third of my cycle will be used to aggressively strip off some fat).

----------


## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by BIG TEXAN_ 
> *BG....update time brother, it's been a couple of days now. Don't be getting lazy on us.*


Way to stay on me, sometimes we all need a swift kick in the ass. To update and touch on what I perceive as significant developments, I should probably let you all know that I started liquidex today. I'd wanted to hold off as long as possible, but the bloat, while not horrible, is a great deal more than I had expected so quickly and while I don't necessarily see a noticeable change in my face, it just "feels" watery and puffy, especially under the eyes and on the cheekbones. Insofar as the liquidex is concerned (liquiarim, specifically), my taking it today will represent the first, and undoubtedly last, time i take it solo. I think the flavor I got was the new and improved "praying for death delight" flavor. Remember the scene in "Dumb&Dumber" where the cop drinks the bottled piss? I basically made that face but the overall reaction was a bit more violent. 

With regards to my workouts, I've yet to really out and out test the strength, but I'm certain it's heading up. I'm making significant progress with my GVT portions, somethign that had previously been a rough spot for me. Futhermore, many exercises find me using weights that I was previously handling for 8-10 reps well into the 13-15 range. In exercises where I'm not experiencing the nice rise in rep range, there is a noticeable improvement in my ability to "feel" the muscle working. 

Lastly, while the bloat, headaches, drowsiness, etc (to inform you all, yes, they have now all subsided except for the bloat...appetite is back and that persistent drowsiness is gone) gave me little reason to doubt my dbol wasn't real, the fact was confirmed for certain when I got an intensely bothersome (not quite to the point of painful) lower back pump while doing GVT lying hamstring curls. To get a lower back pump while using 60% 1RM on lying ham curls has to be indicative of the stuff working its magic!

----------


## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by daem_ 
> *
> secondly, i decided that i am going to incorporate fina into my cycle for strength reasons. sat around playing chemist today converting and i got 57ml out of a 6g kit...exactly what i need for 8 weeks at a concentration of around 100mg/ml if my math skills are still intact. can't wait to hit that first shot in week 10  
> 
> let me know if you are going to run fina as well.
> 
> cheers.*


As an overanxious newbie cycle planner, I considered virtually everything under the sun save for HGH and 'slin. The accessibility, price and potency of fina all make it EXTREMELY difficult to say no to, though my initial cycle plans have me doing just that. However, I gave it serious consideration throughout my planning, to the point I finally excluded it only a few hours before ordering everything else. Additionally, enough respected guys maintain that it's really not for a first time user to the degree that I elected to listen. 

All of that being said, however, the fact that (as you can see from above posts) "anabolic purgatory" is a disconcerting place to be, I'm including an aggressive cutter in the latter third of the cycle, and I actually look forward to injections and actually like poking myself (negating worries about the ED factor of fina) all have me giving it serious consideration once again. It's certainly something I'll be battling with over the coming weeks.

----------


## BIG TEXAN

It all sounds good bro. Once you're off the dbol it won't take long for that bloat to subside. As you may think you look smaller in all reality you most likely look bigger to every joe blow that's out there :Big Grin: . I too am getting anxiuos to start my fina, besides the joy of sticking a 23 gauge 1" needle in myself everyday, the incredible stength gains that one recieves from (what I like to now call the nectar of the gods) fina. Everything seems to be in check with you and it sounds good and on track. Keep it up brother, and I hope to be joining you in the 250 range before it's all said and done. :Wink:

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## Bulldog5.0

> You wonder if your stuff is fake, if you're one of those unlucky few who just don't respond to AAS, or if you're doing something wrong. The rational side knows that AAS are not a magic pill, and that they are NOT supposed to "work" this fast, yet (again) that fails to coincide with your mental state


Tell me about it. I'm on such a roller coaster regarding the effectiveness of my cycle. I'm on prop and EQ and I didn't feel anything on 100mg prop EOD after two weeks, so I upped it to 75mg ED. I thought that helped a lot for a while, but I haven't gained a pound in a week and a half. I'm starting to think I'm one of the poor saps who doesn't get the typical results from AAS and it really sucks. Here's what really gets me though- If I'm correct in assuming that I don't respond well to juice, then that means I had more natural progress left in me than I thought. The 9 pounds I've gained could have been put on simply from renewed motivation and intensity. Kinda frustrating, though I haven't given up yet. 
Also, in a previous post you mentioned that your somewhat intense side effects may be a sign that you will respond well. If that were true then I would assume the opposite is true as well. I have experienced no sides of any kind except what I deem psychosematic reactions (for a day or two I thought I was more aggressive and horny, but it went away). I'm sure my stuff is real as it's QV and passed all the "tests".

----------


## BigGreen

Something occurred yesterday which I thought might be of significant interest to those on dbol (at least I'm presently attributing it to the dbol). As it was an unusually busy day in some unusual ways, I was caught off guard in a BIG way and ended up skimping on my water intake considerably as a result. Now, granted I was not happy about it having happened, but, given that I couldn't change the fact that it did, the inquisitive bastard in me saw it as an excellent opportunity to chronicle the results of these parameters. Truthfully, I wasn't expecting much in the way of stuff to notice....oh, how wrong i was. By late afternoon the headaches were back in full effect. Additionally, while lying in bed trying to sleep, I had a rush of many of the telltale signs of high blood pressure: I could hear and feel my heart beating much more so than usual, could feel my pulse throughout my body, and woke up with, while not a full on bloody nose, a nose full of blood-caked snot (sorry for the disgusting description, but it fits). On top of that, I woke up on and off all night, and when I did manage to sleep, I'd awake to a puddle of nightsweats. Tonight will be revealing as to whether or not this is a new trend I should expect to be ongoing (as I've heard that sleeplessness and night sweats are not uncommon sides to AAS) or simply a result of my water intake dropping significantly, as I believe it to be. Regardless, there's no denying that my lack of water opened the gates for the blood pressure "inconveniences"...so, to all those reading and thinking about dbol, be sure to be diligent in your water intake!

----------


## BigGreen

I just woke up and felt obligated to post this information. I don't know if it's the dbol finally building up to high concentrated levels or the test kicking in, but for the last three nights my dreams have been incredibly intense and aggressive. Not necessarily nightmares, though a few were, these dreams usually involve me in a role embodying "fight or flight" in a BIG way. More than a few have had me in the hunt for some really hardened criminal, whom I often have to fight when I find them....and these people are brutally nasty. Additionally, quite a few involve me in a group of people being stalked/hunted and I am the only one who wants to turn and fight instead of running around like fools as we get picked off one by one. These are very uncharacteristic for me. Lastly, the number of my dreams involving sex has skyrocketed these last three nights, with the odd thing being most now include girls I see in my day to day operations, as opposed to celebrities and girls I haven't seen since high school. Anyone else see a marked change in their dreams while "on"? I'm going to post some references from other threads, as I think it's worth bringing up.

Colorful Dreams by Daem 
Nightmares

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## David B.

> _Originally posted by BigGreen_ 
> * I don't know if it's the dbol finally building up to high concentrated levels or the test kicking in, but for the last three nights my dreams have been incredibly intense and aggressive.*


Oh yeah, absolutely. I was getting a lot of that in the first weeks of this cycle, until about week five when I hit the intense night sweats phase, which lasted about a week and led me straight into the present phase where I have a lot of difficulty sleeping at all.

Let us know how this progresses for you. I hope you're spared from my sleeplessness...

--dnb

----------


## BigGreen

I brought in groceries this afternoon (it was a lot of groceries...182 bucks worth, to be exact...and no eq hunger yet) and actually had to sprawl out on the couch afterwards because the lower back pumps were killing me!! Of course, I took 20mg about two hours before heading to the grocery store, so that may have had something to do with it.

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## majorpecs

Yo BigGreen...journal is rocking. Please keep your updates coming....and where are the damn pics?

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## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by majorpecs_ 
> *and where are the damn pics?*


I know, I know....I feel HORRIBLE. Supposedly my camera shipped Friday, and I'm tracking it, but it shows it as not existing yet? This is odd as amazon is normally VERY good and reliable. As soon as it comes, i'll strip down to shorts and start snapping pics immediately.

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## BigGreen

With regards to the feeling of drowsiness: I've wondered at times if it's a minor version of the "test flu"....I guess it's a possibility, but have settled on (for the time being) it being more a factor of the fact that with increased anabolic activity (and i'm assuming there currently is some) come increased sleep demands, and I have kept me sleep patterns more or less the same. Approaching it as an energy defecit problem of sorts, i'm approaching it in two ways, 1. really kicking up my carbs in an attempt to boost energy levels, and 2. adding a 45 min catnap to my day whenever possible. I'll let you all know how it goes as this drowsiness has prolonged itself long enough to, for lack of a better term, really become a pain in my ass.

----------


## BigGreen

...but 

Just had to let you guys know that the strength gains are undoubtedly coming on strong now. I threw 10 plates on each side of the leg press tonight (20 total for the math majors) for my workout and tossed it up for eight solid knees to armpits reps!!! Of course, it was Holistic leg day, so I followed that up (no rest of course) with squats (275 for 10) and then leg extensions (100 pounds for 40) and kept on repeating that cycle with no rest until the final circuit found me barely getting two reps with the 20 plates, just squeezing out 8 reps with 225 on squat and knocking the leg extensions down to 80 pounds in order to get the requisite 40 reps. I COULDN'T BE HAPPIER RIGHT NOW WITH WHERE THIS CYCLE IS GOING!!!!!!!!

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## BIG TEXAN

Sounds like it's all going well. BG, I'm not sure about the carbs but I will tell you that the cat nap will do you wonders. I find that either right before or right after my workouts are the best time for them. Good luck and keep at it bro!

----------


## BigGreen

Start Weight: 241
End of Week One: 250
Current Weight: 253

I'm certainly not complaining about the weight gain so far (even though it's likely almost entirely water), but I do think I should bring up the fact that, given the "intangibles" of the cycle, I would have thought the pattern would have been reversed. In other words, rather than gaining nine pounds the first week and three the second, the fact that I didn't feel the dbol pumps or start to notice strength gains and "aas dreams" until the second week would have led me to guess, if someone had just laid out the two week long experiences side-by-side, that the larger weight gain would've come in that second week. I guess that can be attributed to two things: 1. as mentioned above I dieted down a bit prior to the cycle, and that eight pounds or so i lost probably woulda came back even with fake gear as I started eating for growth again, and 2. if you recall from my first couple of posts, the goal of my diet in beginning the cycle was too quickly and drastically overfeed in hope of activating my body's own anabolic hormones to "naturally" kickstart the cycle. 

Other than this little paradox (and, no, i certainly didn't expect to gain at a clip of nine pounds a week) most other aspects seem to be going according to plan. I'm already starting to appreciate the post-cycle depression that many talk about it as well as the psychological "addiction" inherent with being on. This is a short update as I'm still feeling bad about the pics (though tracking has my package in my city, it was not as of 4:00 today at my door), but I did want to pose a question to readers of this thread with cycle experience. Namely, does testicular atrophy, in your experience, correlate significantly with developmental "phases" on cycle? For example, when they finally do shrink to nothing, is that a good indicator that the stuff is about to kick? Or is it possible that the shrink and then two weeks later it really kicks in? I'm just wondering if there's any way to gauge/predict where one is at in a cycle by this aspect.

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## BIG TEXAN

Usually when they shrink....you're gear is or is about to kick in. :Big Grin:

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## daem

for me at least testicular atrophy doesn't occur immediately...i have good sized juevos when off, but when on they keep shrinking until i am almost finished with the cycle. 

im going to be beginning week 7 here on thursday and i still have not experienced a huge change...smaller and continuing to diminsh, yes...pea-sized, no.

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## David B.

> _Originally posted by BigGreen_ 
> *Namely, does testicular atrophy, in your experience, correlate significantly with developmental "phases" on cycle? For example, when they finally do shrink to nothing, is that a good indicator that the stuff is about to kick? Or is it possible that the shrink and then two weeks later it really kicks in? I'm just wondering if there's any way to gauge/predict where one is at in a cycle by this aspect.*


I don't think it's possible to generalize about this, each user's body will react differently. 

Heck, I didn't even react the same way on my two cycles. The first one, it seemed as though the boys were replaced by greek olives quite suddenly during week 5. This time, if any atrophy has occurred, it's been so gradual that I can't tell, and I'm in week 12.

--dave

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## BigGreen

Thanks for the quick feedback...I'm going to have some generalized HCG questions that I want to finalize over the next couple of days and I'm hoping you guys can help with. But, the real reason for this post was to let you all know that I got a call from my girlfriend and an Amazon package containing the new digital camera has arrived!! Expect pics within the next 48 hours (basically, however long it takes me to convince her to take pictures).

----------


## BigGreen

That's right, I had my girlfriend take them all today and yesterday. Given that timeline, it will have been about 17 days into the cycle that the pics were taken, so perhaps some will not consider them accurate "before" pics. However, as the main components of the cycle are eq and test enan, I don't think I've as of yet been hit with any real benefits that would compromise the integrity of a set of before pics. Additionally, the one fast-acting component, dbol , leveled things out, so to speak, as it initially bloated me up enough (have it under control now...it was just an initial reaction really) to make me look smaller than i was two weeks ago because of lost definition. So, in short, I'd say the pics are fair representations of what can be said to encapsulate accurate "before pics". 

Other than that, a brief update on the darker side of AAS. This is not to suggest that I don't maintain discipline and avoid partying while training naturally, but with the health concerns part and parcel of AAS usage, it is even more of a concern, healthwise. As I type this, however, I am missing what is probably (and I'm not joking here) the most banging party in New England this weekend. Those of you who know me well know that, because I'm slightly older and went through an elongated route to college, I haven't participated this year in campus life as much as in years gone by, nor have I felt any loss as a result. This weekend, however, annually represents my school's biggest throwdown....think woodstock in fraternity houses (and recall that my school is the school on which 'Animal House' was based)...and I knew full well heading into this cycle that I would miss the event (which I wanted to attend because any alumni....who comprise most of my close friends...would be returning) but decided to make that sacrifice. I'll tell you though, it's tougher than I thought...in a BIG way. But, I keep thinking ahead to the completion of this cycle and just know it'll be worth it...so i tell myself when i think of guys and gals doing kegstand after kegstand while I watch 'Can't Hardly Wait' and research esters.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## BigGreen

Anyone know anything about trouble shooting the transfer of pics from the digital camera to the computer? I can see them on my computer screen and they start to transfer, but EVERY time it says "connection lost" before they finish...whether I try to do it with one pic or twenty! It's like "it" won't let the process finish, as the transfer bar fills up like 99% of the way before it says "connection lost". Anyone?

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## withoutd0ubt

reload your program that you use to extract the pics, might have been a bad download to your comp

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## aanold

Check the website of the camera manufacturer to see if they have updated the software that came with the camera.

Are you low on diskspace?

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## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by aanold_ 
> *Check the website of the camera manufacturer to see if they have updated the software that came with the camera.
> 
> Are you low on diskspace?*


I'll be taking both of your suggestions to heart and practice when I get home, but I'm frustrated as hell because I just got the computer fairly recently (it's 80GB, so I hope diskspace isn't the issue) and the camera is brand new and ran me around 600 bucks, so I'll be royally pissed if it has something wrong with it. Hopefully I have good news.

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## aanold

BigGreen,

Another good thing to do before reinstalling any software that you have to is to visit windows update (if you have Win XP the computer was probably updating itself periodically but still a good thing to check).

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## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by aanold_ 
> *BigGreen,
> 
> Another good thing to do before reinstalling any software that you have to is to visit windows update (if you have Win XP the computer was probably updating itself periodically but still a good thing to check).*


that might be my problem...i get pissed off with windows always prompting me to update all the time, so I just ignore it and keep X'ing it out...kinda my own personal stand against microsoft.

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## zx7racing

you can turn off automatic update by right click on my comp, properites, then AUTOMATIC UPDATE....
bill goves you choices in the world he has created, so you believe you are standing up, when in all actuality you are another conformer..

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## zx7racing

you say you have 80 gig hd, then space surely isnt a problem.. i would suggest a new install...
1st go to control panel remove program 
2nd go to run and type regedt32- go to system config and remove any lingering file types that have that software.
then reboot and start over. 
of course this is assuming all your cables and connections are running right. ping them in comm prompt by typing ping 127.0.0.1 for network connectivity

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## BigGreen

Start Weight: 241
End of Week One: 250
End of Week Two: 253
End of Week Three: 256

First and foremost, I continue to feel terrible about not having pics up and running yet. The good news is that they've been taken and are saved....it's just a matter of getting them onto a computer. I'll be making a serious effort to work on whatever is preventing me from doing so asap. 

Other than that, I'm getting a little impatient. Impatient for the eq hunger, impatient for the test "rush" and impatient for the big gains. In the grand scheme of things, however, I'm more than pleased with the results so far. Strength is climbing nicely in every department except the biceps (for whatever reason) and size, as you can see, is steadily coming on at a nice rate. 

With regards to injections, either my body is used to the BA or I've gotten better at the process (probably both) but I don't have that debilitating soreness like I used to the first three injections or so. That was a VERY welcome change. I'm cutting the update here, as I want to keep things short till I deliver on the pics. Oh, one more thing, I'm going for broke on diet and just eating like a pig (clean though) in hopes of making the best gains possible...i'll post a sample diet soon for suggestions and critique.

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## majorpecs

i refuse to comment further on this thread without pics :Frown:

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## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by majorpecs_ 
> *i refuse to comment further on this thread without pics*


Happy Now?

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## Big Presser

very funny bg... dog it sounds like you're doing great. I wish we could get some beginning and now pics. Oh well. Has it been necessary for you to start nolva yet? I'm just curious.

BIG PRESSER

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## BigGreen

I had my first really bad day today insofar as AAS is concerned. The first I'll chalk up to experience and let you all learn from. Something to never, EVER do while on dbol : German Volume Training for quads with squats as your exercise of choice. I had to quit and move over to leg presses after four sets as I could hardly stand up as a result of the lower back "throbbings"! Only three sets into leg presses and the throbbing in my back went all the way up to my head and gave me the worst friggin headache i've EVER had...i'm not joking when I say that I thought I was gonna pass out. 

Oh, and to top it all off, I got home to do my injection, hit a friggin nerve (and, oh yeah, it hurts...not horrible, but definitely not "just a sting") and rather than pull out and start over, just pushed through it...i was so f'ed up by the experience that I forgot to aspirate ! No light headedness, no rush, so I'm sure I didn't mainline, but what an end to a bad day.

----------


## GeauxTigersLSU

I am enjoying this thread, going through some of the same stuff.

----------


## David B.

> _Originally posted by BigGreen_ 
> *
> 
> Happy Now?*


Lookin' lean, dude. You've got a good base to put on some serious mass.

--dave

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## David B.

> _Originally posted by BigGreen_ 
> * Something to never, EVER do while on dbol: German Volume Training for quads with squats as your exercise of choice. I had to quit and move over to leg presses after four sets as I could hardly stand up as a result of the lower back "throbbings"!*


OUCH! I bet the drive home was fun, squirming in your seat all the way.

That d-bol lower back pain is the gift that keeps on giving, you'll be feeling that one for DAYS. 

--dave

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## majorpecs

> _Originally posted by David B._ 
> *
> 
> Lookin' lean, dude. You've got a good base to put on some serious mass.
> 
> --dave*


 :LOL:   :LOL:

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## Poppa Pump

Where are the updates? This thread was so bitchin!

----------


## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by Poppa Pump_ 
> *Where are the updates? This thread was so bitchin!*


Sorry, two big factors:

1. Until I clear up the pic issue, I feel bad flooding the thread with anything other than the scheduled weekly updates.

2. My school is on the quarter system and we don't graduate until June, so I still have some end of the year odds and ends to clear up and solidify to insure that I graduate, not to mention job interviews....nothing major, but enough to have me running around in a manner that I'm finding it hard to devote deserving time to this thread. I'll give a good update later tonight and find some way to have those pics up ASAP so I can get this thing up to speed again. Thanks for keeping on me!

----------


## BigGreen

It seems fitting to give an update here, as tomorrow represents my final day of dbol - something which is at once a source of great trepidation and total elation. As to the former, dbol has treated me quite well in terms of strength gains, and there will certainly be some sense of fear on Tuesday morning that the strength gains will not only cease to continue, but may actually begin to regress. Insofar as the latter is concerned, looking back on my workout log shows that three workouts in the last four weeks have been cut short as a result of the intense lower back pain caused by dbol; this "inconvenience" will not be missed. Whether or not the strength dissipates, dips, or keeps climbing unfettered, I would like to address this over the next few weeks, as I'm sure many first-timers are more than a little nervous about taking out the one component of their first cycle they know for sure is working.

In honor of its departure, here is my tribute to dbol, OR, what it did for me (the good, the bad, the ugly)

The Good:
*Four weeks ago I was leg pressing 18 plates for 6-8 reps (and, yes, my reps are deep...knees to armpits), while my last heavy session I was able to get 20 plates for 8 or 9 reps.
*I began "pause reps" for bench when I began the cycle. My friend advocated it as a way to blast through a sticking point. The technique (it may also be called a JM Press?? or it is similar) involves taking a weight you normally do for ten reps or so, unracking it, and holding it a millimeter away from your chest, keeping the tension tight for a count of three full seconds before exploding up. Supposedly, upon doing this, you normally get half the reps the first time, and gradually work your way (over a few months) up to that same rep range. The first workout I got three, and only three! Last workout, I got ten...accomplishing in four weeks what it was expected would take months.
*GVT saw great gains, as dbol increased my endurance in this regard most noticeably.

The Bad:
*As already mentioned, lower back pumps wreaked havoc on my leg workouts.
*I'm still unsure as to whether I can technically blame it on the dbol, but the drowsiness SUCKED!

The Ugly:
*HEADACHES! Ouch, ouch, ouch! these were awful. On Holistic training days, where I'm all over the place and HR was elevated, they would come screaming back. There were more than a few workouts where I had to lay down on the floor for a few minutes just to insure i'd be walking out with all my senses. 

Those are VERY brief summaries, but you get the idea, i'm sure. Till next time.....

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## David B.

In my opinion, after you've been off the d-bol for about a week, you'll need to back off the intensity of your workouts some. If you keep training as though you're expecting the same sort of progress you were making on d-bol, you'll be headed for overtraining.

--dave

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## BigGreen

Start Weight: 241
End of Week One: 250
End of Week Two: 253
End of Week Three: 256
Current Weight: 258

This will be brief, as I'll be back on tonight to post my pics...i was finally able to extract my pics from the OLD digital camera using the HP Vectra at work...yeah, old school. Until then, however, most of what I want to add has to do with what this next week will bring. While I am VERY confident in the legitimacy of the test and eq I have, now is where i find out F'UH SCHIZZLE if it's the real deal, as dbol and I have now parted ways (on fairly amicable terms, however). While I'm not particularly nervous about it being fake, the lack of any testicular atrophy thus far does have me a bit concerned. 

Well, this keyboard is AWFUL...so I'm cutting it here and check it out tonight for the pics.

----------


## BigGreen

YOU MUST READ THIS BEFORE VIEWING PICS!!

Okay, while I am aware that, by and large, our members here at AR feel no real desire to knock others in order to feel bigger or more muscular than they are, I do feel compelled to offer a few caveats not only against the possibility of such actions, however remote, but also just to give you a greater understanding of my goals as well. 

*as i've mentioned many times in the past, i'll be the first to admit I don't necessarily look my weight. I quite possibly have the most dense bones in the world (I once took an aluminum bat to the ribs walking by an on-deck circle as a kid and didn't even crack one), and that contributes to what sounds like a big weight, but does not necessarily look like one (I weighed, I believe, 251 at the time of these pics). That being said, I can do without the, "my boy's 250 and he looks way bigger than you, man". Keep in mind i'm also 6'3" with some long ass arms (my wingspan is near 6'6" or 6'7"). 

*I'll be posting a pic of myself at a high school graduation pool party so that you can see just how far i have come...and to me, not to sound cliched or cheesy, but that is truly what matters - i have naturally added just a hair over 100 pounds to my frame as it was at that time, and hope to take it further with this cycle. Additionally, I'll be posting a pic from two summers ago and one from last summer, so that you can see the progress (or what i hope is apparent as progress).

*As per the previous, i'm well aware my bodyfat is a bit high (i'd go so far as to estimate it at 25%, but would appreciate more experienced guesses), but I've been eating like a horse in anticipation of this cycle (and while on) as I'm looking for as much size as I possibly can without getting too fat...guys who are 6'3" like myself will appreciate the fact that it takes that kind of fat gain in many instances to fill out a long bone structure, particulary one that was as long and narrow as mine (as you'll see). 

*My acknowledged worst parts: ARMS!! As you'll see, they were tiny at HS graduation and are still fairly tiny. In addition, my lats are pretty poor. 

*What I perceive to be my strong points: I've always felt, and been told, that my shoulder girdle is a strong point of mine. I've worked hard to bring out the traps and give the illusion of width. In some ways, this may contribute to the small look of my arms, and it is something I'm trying to balance out. Additionally,while my lats are a weak spot, i paradoxically believe that my back is a strong point. Perhaps my pics can convey what i mean by that more than I can. 

*The weird area: my quads are my largest and strongest bodypart, though the pics do not really demonstrate that in the least. It may be due to two factors: 1. my inseam is a short 32" at 6'3", so they tend to look blocky and unsymmetrical (which they are to some extent) and 2. bodyfat tends to deposit there and stick there in an odd fashion...ie, if my body is at 10%, my quads will look like they're at 15%. Well, the pics'll be up as soon as I get home...HAPPY VIEWING!!

----------


## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by Big Presser_ 
> *Has it been necessary for you to start nolva yet? I'm just curious.
> 
> BIG PRESSER*


Sorry I missed this.....no, it hasn't been, and I've even dropped the liquidex down to .25mg/day with not even the slightest indication of gyno...and I'm pleased with that, to say the least.

----------


## BigGreen

Stumbled across this while looking for my pool party photo. It's me at six months old...was I destined for the weight room??

----------


## BigGreen

Okay, here I am at a high school graduation party...this should give you a decent idea of just how far I had to come to crack 200, let alone 250! I believe I was about 160 lbs in this picture.

----------


## BigGreen

Me at a rocky, sandless beach in Maine...here I'd been training (though not seriously, as is evident) for over a year. I'd argue that there is considerable progress from the pool party, and maybe even the hint of a good foundation  :Don't know:  If memory serves, I was about 215-220 pounds in this picture.

----------


## BigGreen

Finally, some muscle becomes apparent!!! If I'm not mistaken, I was around 212 in this pic. It was a botched attempt at dieting down after a nice bulking phase; as you can tell, I flattened out rather noticeably.

----------


## BigGreen

Not the best pic, as my posing sucks, and the quality matches, but I think you can start to get an idea of my assertion that my back is good while my lats are poor? In this pic, as with the rest, I'm at just about 250 even.

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## BigGreen

Again, i do have trouble with posing, and the poor quality of the camera boths masks some of my glaring weaknesses (doesn't reveal just how pasty and white I am) but simultaneously hides some of my strengths (I actually have pretty solid upper chest definition and even some vascularity that doesn't come out in these pics....I swear).

----------


## BigGreen

I mentioned it earlier, and it likely comes out in ALL the pics except the baby pic...but here's a close-up of what I believe to be my worst bodypart. In it, I think i see some hope that it can be overcome. Anyone else?

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## BigGreen

As mentioned earlier, though my quads have quickly become a VERY strong point, they tend to store fat. I've put this as a comparison shot just to show you the progress i made in this department before I even touched a syringe (and I believe I'm justifiably proud of the developments I made in this department). The pic on the left is from about 7-8 months ago...the pic on the right from two weeks ago. I largely credit the Westside routine as the catalyst behind what I perceive to be a pretty rapid change in quad size (I believe they're just under 28" now if not at that dead even).

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## BigGreen

and the final comparison to give you an idea of where I've come from and gone in the last two years. I'm fully aware that it is more than eclipsed by the accomplishments of many members on the board, but I'm very happy with what i was able to do.

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## David B.

> _Originally posted by BigGreen_ 
> **As per the previous, i'm well aware my bodyfat is a bit high (i'd go so far as to estimate it at 25%, but would appreciate more experienced guesses*


Nowhere near 25%. No more than 18% max, maybe less.

--dave

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## majorpecs

Finally BigGreen I can once again post on your thread.....nice job on all the pics showing us your progress so far. Let me be one of the first to say that you've made GREAT natty progress and that I think after this cycle your pics are going to blow people away. Stay Swole!!

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## BIG TEXAN

Hellacious natural gains brother....I can't wait to see the gains that will be accomplished with AS!!! I to will be posting pics next week or so, in which all you guys will come to find out I'm really a 5 ft. 110 lb, frail little man.  :LOL:  Good job BG and keep up the progress bro.


.................... oh by the way..... I didn't forget all the little people.  :Wink:

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## jleighty17

bro if i was guessing id say more like 15%. and i do feel you im 6-3 about 245-250 and i look alot smaller at least in my eyes. i went from 185 at graduation to where i am now so to me its a big change. you have a good build and have potential to get to 270+ which is about where i want to be and i can do it no problem my long term goal is 255-260 at 7-8%
JLI

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## aanold

BG,

I just wanna give you props on the transformation you've made in two years. Those comparison pics are really incredible. After seeing your quad progress pics I'm planning on looking into the Westside routine.

I have one question regarding the Liquidex:

You said you didn't have it until week 4 (I think). Did you notice a huge change in water bloat when you started it and were there any changes when you dropped it down to .25 mg/d? ...and what made you drop the mg?

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## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by aanold_ 
> *BG,
> 
> 
> I have one question regarding the Liquidex:
> 
> You said you didn't have it until week 4 (I think). Did you notice a huge change in water bloat when you started it and were there any changes when you dropped it down to .25 mg/d? ...and what made you drop the mg?*


I think I mentioned how quickly the dbol initially dumped the water on me. Within five days of beginning it, while no one made any comments about appearance, my face (particularly the cheeks and directly under the eyes) felt extremely puffy. There was some additional blurred definition in the midsection and chest, but that was probably more a result of my rapid increase in calories intentionally undertaken to give me a natural boost at the onset of the cycle. 

I started at .4-.5mg and within three or four days, that watery feeling in my face was gone. Based simply on the fact that I don't want any more chemicals in my body than are necessary, i decided to see what would happen if I popped it down to .25mg, and so far so good. As the test seems to be kicking in a little harder now, i may have to up it a bit if the situation dictates, but I feel confident that i'll be okay at .25mg.

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## Big Presser

no way in hell you're 25%... maybe 15. bro you're looking huge. Great natural improvements. Biceps are not a weekpoint you really dont have a weakpoint I can see. Lookin swole!

Great job.

BIG PRESSER

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## Big Presser

dude BG... it's real wierd bro, but I checked your pics again... you're built very similar to me... and I mean VERY similar. Big chest, relatively small arms in comparison to the chest (even though I still don't believe you have a definate weakpoint)... shoulders are built almost identically. I'll have to get up my pics sooner so I can show you what I'm talking about!!!
I'm JUST like you, only 9 inches shorter and 95 pounds less! 

BIG PRESSER

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## BigGreen

To all: thanks for the encouraging feeback on the pics...my hat comes off to all who have the guts to post them; I imagine it will always be tough to do. Biceps and lats continue to be a big focal point of mine, and i hope that the diligence shows in seven or eight weeks when I post pics at the end of the bulking phase. From there, I go into a cutting phase of sorts and will post pics at the end of that portion as well. Additionally, I'll no doubt have a better cam by then, so you should have a much better idea of my strong points and my weak points.

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## BigGreen

I just wanted to make a quick update with regards to my luck insofar as sides are concerned. At present, there has been virtually nothing in the way of negative sides. I was concerned that eq and test might cause some hairs to fall out....not a thing so far. I was afraid of gyno...again, nothing. I'm fairly pale so acne looks pretty bad on me...but not a thing out of the usual. 

Aside from the dbol headaches off the bat (that occassionally returned) and some recent nightsweats, there have really been NO negative sides. Now, I know i'm only in the beginning of week five here, so I half feel like I'm out of the woods with regards to these sides but half feel as though i'm tempting the AAS gods with this post. In fact, if I weren't making very steady strength and weight gains, the lack of any sides might lead me to believe the stuff was fake; so either I'm experiencing the single greatest placebo effect of ALL TIME, or I'm very fortunate. I'd like to believe the latter.

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## 956Vette

Keep up the good work, and thanks for keeping us posted...Keep Pumpin'

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## BIG TEXAN

BG, not to worry. Some people are fortunate enough to never have side effects rare their ugly faces. I for one am also one of the few. Well I take that back, with fina I did notice a slight advance in hair loss. Other than that I have never had the bad luck of sides. Keep up the great work and I lok foreward to reading more of your posts.

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## BigGreen

Start Weight: 241
End of Week One: 250
End of Week Two: 253
End of Week Three: 256
End of Week Four: 258
Current Weight: 260

Well, the progress continued on track even after the dbol stopped, so I am quite happy in that regard. Week 5's gains may even be underrepresented here, as there was an initial dip that took me down to 256 again, where I held for a few days before rebounding. All in all, strength seems to be eclipsing size in terms of the rapidness with which gains in these two departments are progressing. It seems as if each and every workout finds me picking up a pair of dumbbells 5 pounds heavier than the last, and often exceeding the reps of the week before on top of adding more weight! 

I still feel that the best is yet to come, as I haven't felt the full side effects of test in the way of massively increased libido (in fact, it seems to be the one thing that _dropped_ after dbol) in addition to the eq hunger remaining conspicuously absent...though my appetite has increased noticeably - but nothing i'd refer to as eq hunger after reading posts on the subject. 

I plan on posting a sample diet for criticism soon, as I've drastically upped carbs (actually i've upped just about everything) after suspecting that I was falling short in that department(started feeling run down everywhere but the gym and was sleeping ten to eleven hours a day). 

Injections have continued to go well, with only one real bad injection. Though, I must admit, today's has panned out negatively. I had been "heating" my gear prior to injection by running it under very hot water. I was rushed today and skipped that step, thinking it wouldn't make much of a difference....WELL...it did. The injection site hurts like it used to back in week one (before I started heating). Now, I was rushed, so perhaps that wasn't the only component contributing to the -pain, but, regardless, I will be heating from here on in. 

Also, I'm torn regarding the issue of fina vs. winny the drug of choice in my cutting component of the cycle. I posted a thread about it in the main forum, but could use some feedback here as well, as it died quicker than expected...I'll find it and cut and paste it below.

----------


## BigGreen

Well, I'm coming up on the time where I'll be purchasing the components that will carry me through the final six weeks of my cycle (the last three weeks of the test and eq and then the three week period while waiting for the esters to clear before clomid). The original plan was to utilize winny in this capacity, though I confess to being drawn again and again to fina. I've compiled a list (of sorts) of what I have come to see as the pros and cons of each compound as they apply to me. I'll chronicle them below and then would love to get some feedback as to which I should include.

*WINNY*

_Pros_
*While I don't hate injections, and might actually like them, I'm not so sure I'd like them ED...winny to the rescue!
*This is a fairly reliable stand-by for a first time user like myself that isn't notorious for producing nasty sides

_Cons_
*I am petrified of hair loss, and while I don't know how I'll respond to the winny in that regard, as I understand it there is nothing I can take to mitigate the hair loss caused by winny.
*My strength has been rising rapidly, and while the joints are okay so far, I have a knee and an elbow that tend to flare up from time to time...I don't need winny exacerbating that little problem.
*While 50mg tabs are priced fairly reasonably, all other alternatives are, in my experience, not.
*17aa
*FINA*

_Pros_
*Uhhh, well, it's Fina...do we really need another "pro"?
*okay, one more: quite cost effective

_Cons_
*As mentioned above, I'm not sure I'd necessarily like the idea of ED injections. 
*I've been told by guys whose opinions I respect that fina is not for first time users.
*Doesn't it have a rep for shutting you down much harder than winny? Not that it matters coming off an 18 week cycle i guess, but it's a factor. 


Okay, fire away with opinions and feedback, I'd be really interested to hear what you have to say...personal experiences, stories, anecdotes, etc, etc.

----------


## Huge Presser

I base this on absolutely nothing... go with the winny. :Stick Out Tounge: 
And thinks for the updates bro.

Good luck,

HUGE PRESSER

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## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by Huge Presser_ 
> *I base this on absolutely nothing... go with the winny.
> *


Well, the winny's beginning to make sense only because i have to travel down to NC for a few days, New Jersey for a week and Florida for four days all during that three week span I'd be on that component alone...so I'd rather try and board a plane with tab winny in a centrum bottle or vitamin c bottle than try to work the fina through. It might be sad that I'm basing my decision on that, but I may be stuck with no other alternative.

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## thetank

bro ive got too tell you after the way you talked about yourself i didnt expect what i saw in your pics. you look awesome man! for your hieght too your a monster bro. nice overall physique, and if your 25% bodyfat, then im in the 35%-obease range..
anyway, awesome work so far keep it up.
peace
tank

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## sigrabbit

If it helps any, I noticed that the pumps in the calves and low back from Fina interfered with cardio more than winny, a little. Of course I had not been doing cardio in a while, so I could have been really out of shape both times.  :Smilie:

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## Huge Presser

To be honest, I think you should go with the winny regardless of the every day injections. Fina could give you fina dick and does shut you down pretty badly. Stick with the winny.
But its your choice of course... keep us posted on what you decide.

HUGE PRESSER

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## platinum

Hey bro,
Good updates. With regard to winny vs. Fina, I was going to vote Fina. I'm on it now and it's incredible...much better than winny IMO. I only do EOD injections also. However, if you will be travelling while you're on, I will vote for oral winny. I wouldn't risk trying to carry pins and oil based gear with me.

Just saw your pics. Looking good bro. I don't think you're anywhere near 25%. I'm gonna say 16% or so at the most.

Platinum

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## BigGreen

Yesterday was a training day for me and I kept track of everything I ate throughout the day. This is fairly representative of what I'll eat on a training day. I'd like some critiques, but specifically I'll have some questions at the end as to a few carb and protein sources. Keep in mind also, that I'm just trying to gain, and can deal with a bit of a coating if it must be that way.

Meal One: Protein Shake in Milk, two whole eggs five egg whites, one apple, one banana, one whole wheat bagel toasted, and one glass of orange juice

Meal Two: Met-Rx Bar and an apple

Meal Three: Two skinless, boneless chicken breasts, bowl of cottage cheese, bowl of whole wheat pasta (plain) and a large glass of 1% chocolate milk.

Meal Four: "Block" of 50% light cheese (about 35g protein), one banana, one apple, two whole wheat eggo nutragrain waffles (plain), and a bowl of broccoli (enough to fit in a 1000ml Nalgene container....don't ask)

Meal Five: (pre-workout) Met-Rx bar and an apple

Meal Six: (post-workout) Glass of Juicy Juice cherry juice (soon to change as per Pain's advice) Protein shake in milk (also to change)

Meal Seven: (one hour after pw meal #one) Two hamburgers on whole wheat buns with lettuce, onion and ketchup, one apple and one large glass of 1% chocolate milk

Meal Eight: Glycerlean shake

*Additionally, on workout days I carry with me a 1lb container of unsalted, dry roasted peanuts that i finish by days end. It provides something to silence hunger pangs with and provides an additional 128 grams of carbs, 96 grams of carbs, and 224 grams of fat (only 30 of which are saturated). 

I'm aware I'm slightly high on the dairy between the milk and cheese and also that on this particular day my carb sources had a large amount of "bready" substances. This isn't necessarily the norm, as sweet potatoes and rice also make up a great deal of carb sources for me...though the whole wheat pasta is ever present. I'm also a big fan of fruit, and hope that this isn't going to give me problems....i'll add up the macronutrients as well on my next workout day to get a better idea of the numbers.

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## BIG TEXAN

> _Originally posted by BigGreen_ 
> *Meal One: Protein Shake in Milk, two whole eggs five egg whites, one apple, one banana, one whole wheat bagel toasted, and one glass of orange juice
> 
> Toss the protein shake and fruit. I'd go with 8-10 egg whites and 3-4 yolks. Put some natural pb on that bagel, and try about 1/2 to 1 cup of oats. Keep the oj
> 
> Meal Two: Met-Rx Bar and an apple
> 
> I would like to see more real food, but being a student, I'll let this one slide
> 
> ...


Now these are just some ideas and when I have time I could help ya more on your diet bro.

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## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by BIG TEXAN_ 
> *
> 
> Now these are just some ideas and when I have time I could help ya more on your diet bro.*


I'd really appreciate that, but be aware that the last guy who told me "no milk, no hamburgers" lost a foot and a hand.

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## BIG TEXAN

I never said "no milk, no hamburgers". You just had them in the wrong time fraims.  :Wink:  Besides, I believe I remember some of the self defense moves we were taught in the service.  :Big Grin:  I ain't scared.

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## David B.

> _Originally posted by BigGreen_ 
> *
> 
> I'd really appreciate that, but be aware that the last guy who told me "no milk, no hamburgers" lost a foot and a hand.*


Wow, you must've been REALLY hungry...

--dave

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## majorpecs

BigGreen...sounds like you are doing one hell of a job. I for one cannot wait to see the after pics....as for winny vs. fina>my opinion is this, go with whatever you can get easiest. I had great results off of both, but will admit that I got some back pumps of the fina that were almost too much to bear...but for the price it can't be beat. Of course if you have to go out of town, DON'T risk bringing pinz and gear with you....stick with orals.

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## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by BIG TEXAN_ 
> *I never said "no milk, no hamburgers". You just had them in the wrong time fraims.  Besides, I believe I remember some of the self defense moves we were taught in the service.  I ain't scared.*


Oh, you wiley Texans....always resorting to violence. I was merely endeavoring to inject some semblance of humanity into my post. Rather than simply state, "some guy once told me to skimp on the milk and burgers", I felt that it would allow you to see the human side of this man if I told you something about him. See, mere days after offering me the advice, he entered his first alligator wrestling contest, with the aforementioned results of a lost hand and finger courtesy of an 8-footer. Tragic really...but that's the risk alligator rasslers take. 

My dear Texan, did you momentarily presume that a born and bred New Englander of mayflower roots would resort to violence over dietary advice? For shame. The only thing for which we employ violence are the instances in which people who made their homes here for thousands of years refuse to accept the fact that the land we just stumbled across is really ours...and it was only through some cosmic misunderstanding that they arrived first. 

Anyway, I digress...I'd love some help tweaking the diet

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## BIG TEXAN

:LOL:  BG, one of these days I'm gonna have to fly up there just to sit face to face to talk with ya. I'm originally from up north (Cleveland, Ohio) and miss that yankee charm that you posses. I'll help in any way I can, just give me a holler with your current eating schedule, food resources, and any thoughts you have on it.

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## platinum

Hey BG, ever consider losing the bagel and having oatmeal instead? Oatmeal is a much better source of carbs than a bagel. I love to have a few berries or banana slices in mine in the am...good  :Smilie: 


Platinum

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## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by platinum_ 
> *Hey BG, ever consider losing the bagel and having oatmeal instead? Oatmeal is a much better source of carbs than a bagel. I love to have a few berries or banana slices in mine in the am...good 
> 
> 
> Platinum*


I really, really wish I could do that, but I HATE oatmeal. I can't stomach the stuff to save my life. There's something about the texture that revolts me. The only way i get any now is when I blend oats with a protein shake. Any alternative ways of getting it that i'm not aware of??

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## BIG TEXAN

Oatmeal pancakes....YUM! I usually take 1 cup or so, mix in a couple of eggs and viola. A dash of honey and there ya go.

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## platinum

> _Originally posted by BIG TEXAN_ 
> *Oatmeal pancakes....YUM! I usually take 1 cup or so, mix in a couple of eggs and viola. A dash of honey and there ya go.*



lol...I was going to suggest exactly that. I only use egg whites though and put some sugar free jam on top...mmm.

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## BIG TEXAN

I forgot to type that in..... only egg whites, no yolks! Thanks for catching that platinum.

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## Badass_lifter

Great job so far Big green, I am going to run my diet similar to yours. I thought it was really good how you layed out the pros and cons of winny and primo will you do the same with the other roids u are taken?

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## BigGreen

For those having read over that sample diet (and I am making aggressive plans to clean up some of those carb choices...though I can't in good conscience cut substantially down on fruit), what do you think of my eating a pound of peanuts on workout days (spread over the course of the day as 'finger food')? It's not as if i ever heard that was a good idea or anything, it just seems to keep me fairly satiated and I seem to recall them being one of the more slowly digesting things you can put in your stomach aside from Bubbly Yum.

----------


## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by Badass_lifter_ 
> *I thought it was really good how you layed out the pros and cons ... will you do the same with the other roids u are taken?*


Well, the test enanthate as a base was never in question for more than a little bit, though I have to admit to foolishly considering sus for a few minutes. In all honesty, I have come to believe that sustanon is the most widely misused of all tests, perhaps of all AAS. I think monstercojones summed it up best in one of his threads (not sure where or when) when he asked newbies to get off the idea that a blend of four testosterone esters was something to get excited about. It's almost as if it's perceived merits come from the same reasoning that people apply when they purchase lotions, detergents or shampoos (Now a blend of four grease-fighting agents!!!). I'm shocked at the number of people who believe sustanon can be as effective as enanthate when both are injected 2x week...i could go on and on about this, but suffice to say i'm of the school of though that says sus is not for beginners...and I stuck by that in my own applications. 

Insofar as the stacking component was concerned, however, there was some serious debate as to whether equipose or deca would serve in that role. Deca was attractive to me primarily because of its reputation for increasing mass more so than eq, but also because of its lubricating effect. Though still fairly young, i have an elbow and knee that give me hell when I lift heavy over an extended period of time....the knee is MUCH MUCH better (and rarely 'acts up'), but the elbow continues to present problems at the peak of heavy lifting cycles. It was for this reason that deca continued to look attractive, and was my solid choice literally up until the Nth hour. 

In the end, eq won out primarily because I wasn't sure how my body would respond to aas (particularly with regards to recovery) and because of that, didn't want to be shut down as hard as deca shuts you down on my first run...particularly given that I'm already running a fairly long first cycle. Of course, once I elected to dedicate the final third of the cycle to a fairly aggressive paring of bodyfat, eq became the clear winner in that regard. 

Thus far, I've been happy with the decision to include eq...though not yet six weeks in, I haven't been dried out in the joints at all...something I was fairly afraid of once the eq decision was made.

----------


## BigGreen

Well, as a few of you are aware, I'm entering my first ever bench press competition tomorrow. It is not what many of you would call a "real" meet, as, though there will be an official with sanctioned meet experience as a judge, it will be a 'touch and go' contest, as opposed to the powerlifting "norm" of waiting to receive the judge's signal before pressing. It is a raw meet, and, despite the touch-and-go methodology, there is a strict "no bouncing" rule in effect that this official will be enforcing. 

The meet is intended to be a way for people to get their feet wet, and that's exactly how I'm treating it, entering the beginner 250+ class. I'll be having my girlfriend take pictures and I'll certainly post results tomorrow and hopefully pics as well. 

Just to let you know, I'm planning on opening with 295 (i can't imagine anything else than bombing out because i miss a more ambitious opening lift three straight times). From there, the plan is to hit 315 just so I can have that number officially "in the books"....that should be a weight that is good enough to place respectably. From there I'll either be going at my "old" max (from when I was on westside...my "non westside" max a month before starting my cycle was 315) of 335 or maybe even a bit higher if 315 just floats up. I went in today to see some of the people competing in the "real" classes and there was a guy barely out of his teens who repped with 225 30 times then hit 315 about 15 times...neither looked to be close to failure (of course, he weighs 335 and is an O-lineman at a decent football school). So, yeah, i think i'll be nice and comfortable in the beginner class  :Big Grin:

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## BIG TEXAN

All sounds good BG. As for the fruit, if your ody can handle it(which mine would store it all as fat.) than go for it. A pound of peanuts, that's alot of efa's, but again, if it's working for ya. As for the eq drying you out.... I doubt it. Next mass cycle I'd recommend the deca . I personally love the stuff, but wanted to try eq very badly. Good luck at your very first meet tomorrow. I must warn you that once you're bitten by the powerlifting bug, it's hard to get rid of it. Again good luck, and 335 will come easily.

----------


## Huge Presser

Good luck BG... I love bench comps and I'm sure you'll smoke 335.
Also I don't think most newbies (like myself) take sust because of the "4 testosterones"... I believe it is because it is because of the great synergetic effect that occurs when taken with deca and dbol to kick start gains. An Eq/Enan and Deca/Sust are by and by large the two most popular newbie cycles... my next cycle I will running a eq/enan in the beginning... once again good luck on your comp.
BTW.... 260 lbs????? YOU'RE A FUCKING MONSTER BG!!!!!

HUGE PRESSER

----------


## BigGreen

Well, I arrived to find that only myself and one other competitor were in the Beginner 250+ class, so they condensed everybody over 200 into one beginner's class. Things started well but did not progress as planned for me. I elected to open at 315 after a warmup session that indicated it would go up easy...which it did. From there i jumped to 325 and it felt even easier than 315. Rather than sticking to the plan and trying to hit 335, i got greedy and went for 345, which I can't say i just barely missed, but I didn't blow it either. I have to admit it was GREAT fun to do this...even though my class had a small crowd of only about 15-20 people gathered 'round to watch it.

When all was said and done, my class had 8 competitors and I finished at 3rd with my 325. The winner finished with a 385 lift, and I don't want to pull the whole sour grapes thing, but I find it VERY difficult to believe he hadn't competed before...not based on his lift, but rather the vernacular he was using and his overall knowledge of how a meet works...he was asking people why there were no shirts allowed and whether there would be one judge checking for everything, or whether one would be assigned to judge the lift, while another would look for feet and lower back remaining in contact...shit i had NO idea about really. Again, he could have been a first-timer, but I, as well as several others (even the meet organizer) strongly doubted it. Second place was a guy who weighed in at 201 and put up 365...which I found very impressive. He opened at 265, then went to 315, then 365...all of which went up fairly easy. He probably could have made a run at first place if he planned his lifts better. 

All in all, I'm happy with the results, and am looking forward to maybe training the bench press specifically in preparation for another comp sometime soon (as I hadn't benched in almost a month outside of pause sets).

By the way, I have a busy day, so I wasn't able to sit and watch the "real" classes, but i was watching some warmup and for a relatively small meet, there were some solid benchers there - a guy who i was told weighed about 130 was repping at 225 like mad. He was 5'1" or something and just looked like one muscle

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## sigrabbit

Nice work BigG!

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## aanold

Congrats BG, that comp sounds like it was fun.

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## Huge Presser

Great job bro! Bench meets are always fun... good luck on getting a new max shortly!

Quick question: How has your strength progressed so far (bench press specifically). I can't remember where you started in any of your lifts and I'd like to hear a little about how you've progressed.

Thanks

HUGE PRESSER

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## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by Huge Presser_ 
> *
> Quick question: How has your strength progressed so far (bench press specifically). I can't remember where you started in any of your lifts and I'd like to hear a little about how you've progressed.
> *


Well, in terms of hitting 325, that lift is actually *BELOW* my "natural" max of several months back. However, during this time, I was using westside training and westside training alone, so i was quite literally training soelely for strength at the the time...so that 335 wasn't exactly an accurate barometer from which to gauge my strength. That being said, I'm perplexed as to why my bench didn't make a big jump, as my shoulders and tris have made leaps and bounds over the last few weeks in terms of strength. That one has really got me wondering. One of the reasons I went after 345 without any hesitation is that my tricep strength has just literally exploded, so I saw no real reason why my bench wouldn't have made a corresponding jump...which it did not. I believe it has much to do with the fact tha 1RM's are, imo, as much a function of CNS conditioning as they are muscular strength (relative to the individual of course), and I didn't do any 1RM or even 3RM training in the months leading up to this event. I suspect if I took 275 and repped out with it, there would be dramatic improvement over the number of reps i was able to get pre-AAS....for me anyway, the mix i'm on just might not be affecting 1RM strength, which is fine by me, as I'm getting the results in all the other areas I consider paramount.

----------


## rexboy

Great job BG, maybe you're not hitting the pecs specifically and that's why your bench hasn't jumped as much? You got some massive shoulders and tris that could be taking over the movement, adjust your grip maybe and add some flys pre bench set?

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## BigGreen

After the bench press comp and an analysis of why things may not have gone as well as planned (aided by the comments above), I spent some time today assessing my chest as it figures into the total package. A few minutes in front of the mirror also indicated that, as my shoulders seem to be responding well, as is my neck (which is odd because i don't do neckwork) my chest is actually staring to fall behind and look a *bit* smaller as a result of the shoulders and neck surrounding it growing faster. For the remainder of the cycle's bulking phase I'll be employing a few "tricks" in an attempt to bring out this bodypart and give it some fullness. 

*As per rexxboy's advice, I'm going to swallow my pride and do a little pre-exhausting of the chest with flyes before moving on to presses. One of the most satisfying aspects of being "on" is seeing that huge weight increase in lifts, and as much as I've wanted to see it on chest, i'm actually going to let this pre-exhaust movement knock the weight of my working sets down a bit in hopes of coming at chest with renewed tenacity. 

*I've toyed with this take on chest training a bit (http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/255chest.jsp)...particularly the low cable presses, and might be making a concerted effort at including this in the workout split with a bit more diligence. 

*I'm also going to bring back bandwork for the bench press, as, even when I was training for strength while using them, I seemed to get some decent thickness as well. 

I'll keep you all posted as to how chest training progresses.

----------


## majorpecs

> _Originally posted by BigGreen_ 
> *After the bench press comp*


So how in the hell did it go?? Don't leave us hanging like that....and just to let you know, I also began to start my chest workouts with pre-exhaust flies and I have seen GREAT improvement in my pectoral gains. Swallow that pride big boy :Wink:

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## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by majorpecs_ 
> *So how in the hell did it go?? Don't leave us hanging like that....*


scroll up a few posts...i definitely posted results and they look to still be there.

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## mfenske

OK Here's the idiot question of the day. What is pre-exhausting my
chest with flyes first going to do for me? Thanks. Mark

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## Bulldog5.0

By isolating the pecs first with flyes, they are gonna be a bit weaker than normal when you press. Since your tris and shoulders are fresh, the pecs will be worked really hard having been worked already. BTW pre-exhausting would be doing a set of flyes immediately followed by benching, in case that wasn't clear. I can vouch for this technique as a valuable tool to kickstart some growth.

----------


## Huge Presser

Glad to hear you've found your weakpoint on bench BG. I am the opposite, with extremely strong pecs and shoulders that seem to lag in comparison. What you need to remember: if your shoulders and tries can lift 400 but your pecs can only handle 325, you're only going to be able to bench 325. So strengthen those pec muscles and make them your strong point... good luck and good idea about doing flies before bench, you will likely appreciate the results.

HUGE PRESSER

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## BigGreen

Start Weight: 241
End of Week One: 250
End of Week Two: 253
End of Week Three: 256
End of Week Four: 258
End of Week Five: 260
Current Weight: 260

At first glance, it might appear as though I have reason to gripe about not gaining this week, but it is the case that I'm not at all dissapointed. In fact, I'm extremely happy that I didn't lose weight, as I'd anticipated, since I took Thursday and Friday off before the bench press comp, and the Sunday after off as well (graduation). So, in many respects, the bench press comp was the only lifting I did for six days. And, truth be told, I'm fairly happy that this is the case, as it seems to have allowed some dings and bangs that might have been creeping in to heal up a bit. It is my hope that I'll now be able to make a big jump forward and maybe see three, possibly four pounds this week between literally dying to hit the weights and cleaning up some of my carb choices and my postworkout meal(s). 

With regards to the "big picture" I hadn't realized how much I've been gaining till I saw a pic of myself from the bench press contest. The organizers took a bunch of candid shots to place around the gym as a way to publicize the results and hype the next contest/event and I went to check them out with a buddy to see if we showed up in any of the pics. While looking through the various pics I remember catching one out of the corner of my eye and thinking "i don't remember that tank being here...he must have competed in the open class"...a closer look revealed, predictably within this little narrative, that the pic was in fact of me.

----------


## rexboy

Nice BG, remember that just because your actual weight doesn't increase, it doesn't mean that your LBM hasn't. Your diet is extremely good and I wouldn't doubt that you've dropped some BF. Great work, on the comp, now do us all a favor and push some heavy stuff around, huh?  :Smilie:

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## platinum

Great updates as usual bg.

I eat fruit also on my diet. I wouldn't eat the peanuts, but I'm cutting. If I were bulking I'd do it. Although, I would probably choose something other than peanuts cause I don't care for them much  :Wink:

----------


## BigGreen

Yesterday was a workout day (as was the day's diet I had posted previously) and, accounting in particular for BigTexan's changes, here was yesterday's diet:

Meal #1: Oatmeal pancake (cup of oats, two egg whites..nothing fancy) three whole eggs six egg whites, one apple, one banana, one glass skim milk, one glass OJ

Meal #2": Met-Rx Bar, cup of peanuts, apple

Meal #3: 2 cups brown rice, 2 chicken breasts

Meal #4: 2 cups brown rice, two turkey (breast) burgers (no buns), huge ass bowl of broccoli

Meal #5: (preworkout) 2 apples, whey protein shake mixed with skim milk

Meal #5: (postworkout): still waitin' on the dextrose, so: whey shake in water and apple juice chaser

Meal #6 (postworkout 2): 2 cups white rice, 2 chicken breasts

Meal #7: homemade tuna salad (really just plain tuna and lettuce)

Didn't have time to squeeze in that 8th meal yesterday, and I always get ticked if I don't....oh well.

----------


## BIG TEXAN

Looking good brother. If the carbs seem a bit high or your bf seems to increase eating like this, than go ahead and drop the rice to 1 to 1 1/2 cups per meal.

----------


## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by BIG TEXAN_ 
> * If the carbs seem a bit high or your bf seems to increase eating like this...*


I'm having some real trouble of late evaluating my bodyfat. Is it possible that the use of AAS can somehow manipulate _where_ or _how_ your body distributes bodyfat? I ask because it appears as though areas normally representing "hot spots" of fat deposits (the first to gain and last to lose...thus being my litmus test for visual bodyfat evaluations) seem to be not gaining any fat, and possibly even leaning out, while other spots that have rarely seen bodyfat increases (and have never seen increases without the hotspots seeing that corrolary increase first) seem to have put on a little bodyfat? 

That really leaves me with only three logical conclusions:
1. AAS manipulate the manner and locations in which your body distributes fat.
2. I'm imagining shit
3. I'm confusing for bodyfat that which is actually water retention, and the distribution pattern of water retention on my body is vastly different compared to that of fat distribution. 

I'd like to think it's either 1 or 3.

----------


## BIG TEXAN

Well it's actually 2 or 3.  :LOL:  It could be and most likely water retention. Also when you get that bloated feeling from AS you have a tendency to "see yourself" as fat, when in all reality you have not put on any extra bodyfat.

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## lilbull

I'd go with 3 BG, I had similar sides, and it was just the water weight.

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## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by lilbull_ 
> *I'd go with 3 BG, I had similar sides, and it was just the water weight.*


Actually, there does exist a fourth logical choice...that being that I'm passed out in my bed sophomore year of college and all of this has just been one big dream. Maybe AAS don't even exist....maybe they do and they are quite legal. Either way, how does it make you all feel to know that you're merely products of my alcohol induced slumber? Will you accept it as did Kurt Russel in Vanilla Sky, or in a most Cartesian of manners will you fight vehemently against the assertion that those things which you hold dear as "real" can not be anything but? The ball is in your court.

----------


## David B.

> _Originally posted by BigGreen_ 
> *
> 
> Either way, how does it make you all feel to know that you're merely products of my alcohol induced slumber?*


There is absolutely no way that I am part of the scenery in your solipsistic vision, because I happen to know that the opposite is true -- I am the center of the universe and everything else was created for my amusement.  :Smilie: 

--dave

----------


## BIG TEXAN

> _Originally posted by BigGreen_ 
> *how does it make you all feel to know that you're merely products of my alcohol induced slumber? Will you accept it as did Kurt Russel in Vanilla Sky,*


First off, it has been awhile since I've seen Vanilla Sky, but I don't remember Kurt Russell being in that movie. Also if I am some part of your drunken dillusional fantasy, mind dreaming me a bit richer and down to 6% bf?  :LOL:

----------


## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by BIG TEXAN_ 
> *First off, it has been awhile since I've seen Vanilla Sky, but I don't remember Kurt Russell being in that movie.*


He was the psychiatrist...McCabe, I think his name was. Of course, it's perhaps true that the movie doesn't even exist and it is a further fragment of my alcohol induced slumber....so perhaps kurt russel doesn't even exist and we're arguing a moot point.

----------


## BIG TEXAN

Ok, now I remember... :LOL:  like I said, it's been awhile since I've seen it, or since you imagined that I seen it.  :Big Grin:

----------


## BigGreen

Okay yesterday alone I had two very defining moments that certainly demonstrate the integral part AAS currently plays in my day-to-day activities. 

1. I was with a group of people yesterday and one felt compelled to stop at Panera Bread (sort of like starbucks, but sort of not) to get a cappucino of some kind. Anyway, these are all people who have no idea about my AAS usage, and I'd like to keep it that way to be honest. So one of the females in the group comes back with a huge cappucino, topped in whipped cream with a MONSTER of a straw. Upon seeing it, I exclaimed, "Jesus, that thing's like the 18-gauge of straws!!" When everyone gave me blank looks, I sheepishly qualified, "you know, it looks like a shotgun or something." Someone was kind enough to point out that I must have meant 12-guage...so my humor took on the semblance of a bomb, but it covered my ass.

2. I was watching "The Family Guy" DVD and Lois (the red-head wife....who is a cartoon for those not familiar with the show) actually started turning me on!!!!! Guess that's a sure sign of the test kicking in hard.

----------


## BIG TEXAN

:ROFLOL:  I would give anything to see the look on your face after you hadrealized what you said.

----------


## ColdSore

BigGreen...i just had to say that this diary is fucking awsome, i literally just spent like 2 hours reading the whole thing up to this point. I start my first cycle in three days and youve got me eager as hell to just jump the gun tonight...youve almost even got me inspired to write my own log for my first...keep up the awsome work Bro!

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## Huge Presser

:LOL:  That must have been quite embarassing.
BG: You have done a great job covering every single aspect of this cycle... diet, side effects, horniness, results from steroids , weight etc. Your posts are very informative... however I would appreciate more discussion about your actual workouts. I remember way back when you talked about how you squatted 275*12 and then did leg presses and did three rotations of that until you were spent... I thought you were on the right track but since then I haven't heard much about your workouts. Please talk about all your workout days and discuss the amount of weight used and how you have improved... Big T does it very well, look at his diary if this is something you would like to add in.
Just something you might consider.
Thanks bro, keep the posts coming.

HUGE PRESSER

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## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by Huge Presser_ 
> *I would appreciate more discussion about your actual workouts. 
> HUGE PRESSER*


Yeah, I guess I have been leaving that out a bit. I'll dig through my workout journals and post some numbers. Off the top of my head, I'm guessing they won't be dramatic thus far, as the gear has allowed me to get a better workout with a 40 pound dumbbell than I used to. It's not that I wasn't strict with form before, but it's as if now I'm more aware of letting the muscle alone carry the workload, whereas previously there may have been other factors at play? I'm not sure if that recollection is entirely accurate and I may very well find that weight has really jumped...i'll dig that info up and get back to everyone.

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## Huge Presser

Thanks BG... you da man.
HUGE

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## johnsomebody

Hey Big G, thanks for the thread -really helpful. You da MAN!

I'm 6'5" 230;bs and started QV T En & EQ about a week after you -my first as well. I'm glad to see the libido finally kicking in for you -mine's gone nowhere since I started and you'd mentioned the same problem. I really wonder if this batch of QV T En (#007) isn't underdosed -think maybe it's okay now and just takes time to kick in?

I think you responded to my thread asking about HCG -I'm on it mid-cycle right now and it's really saved my, um, nuts. Are you still considering using it?

----------


## platinum

> _Originally posted by BigGreen_ 
> [B]Okay yesterday alone I had two very defining moments that certainly demonstrate the integral part AAS currently plays in my day-to-day activities. *snip*


LOL...that sounds like it must have been funny.  :Smilie:  I have one friend who knows I juice (he does too). I constantly have to remind myself around others that it's_not_an_every_day_thing to some people  :Smilie:  

Sounds like that test is really kicking  :Smilie:  I found myself in front of a tv at the gym the other day (doing cardio) watching I dream of Jeanie....damn I wanted her..test is good stuff  :Smilie: 

Did you ever decide on Tren vs. Winny? Maybe you did and I managed to miss it.


Platinum

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## BigGreen

Before posting any of these lifts, I first want to point out that, over the first six weeks of this cycle, my strength gains have since become very predictable in that my strongest bodyparts have seen the most dramatic strength gains and my weakest ones have seen the most "undramatic". This is both a blessing and a curse. With my physique, strength and aesthetics seem very much so correlated. As such, I've always been able to rest fairly well assured that when a bodypart was getting stronger, it was also getting bigger. The other side of that coin, however, is the fact that my weak bodyparts visually are also the weakest strength-wise, and, as a result, aren't going to be catching up on the merits of generating massive power and explosiveness (relatively speaking). While I had initially harbored a desire that AAS would work in the opposite regard - allowing my weaker bodyparts to catch up in terms of strength, and, as a result, size - this has simply proven not to be the case. Thinking about it, it only makes sense that this would occur...at the time, however, wishful thinking dominated rational thought. 

Finally, a warning about these lifts and their 'before' and 'during' status. All of the 'during' lifts have obviously been performed in the last few weeks. The 'before" lifts, however, go back as far as 1.5-2 months before starting the cycle. The reason for this is that I'm trying to balance these numbers as closely as possible. Those who are familiar with my training style are aware that I very rarely perform the same "workout" (meaning a day's gym session) twice in the same year, let alone three month period. As such, if I'm posting dumbbell military presses as an exercise, if the "during" lift was done first in the workout, the corollary "before" lift was also done first in the workout...thus the reason I had to go back as far as two months in one regard. Rest assured, however, that every one of these 'before' lifts was performed within two months of starting the cycle, BUT MOST OF THEM were performed within a few weeks (4 or so). 

*Dumbbell Military Presses*
BEFORE: 90's*7
CURRENTLY: 100's*12/110's*4

*Leg Press* (rest assured these are FULL rom reps)
BEFORE: 8plates per side*13/9plates per side*10
CURRENTLY: 10plates per side*12/11plates per side*7

*Dumbbell Bench Press*
BEFORE: 110's*7
CURRENTLY: 120's*7

*Cable Presses*
BEFORE: 110/ea*7
CURRENTLY: 140/ea*10 (not sure why this took such a big jump while the rest of my chest exercises have not really seen a similar jump)

*Dips*
BEFORE: Bodyweight + 45lb plate*10
CURRENTLY: Bodyweight + 45lb plate*18 (this is all tricep though)

*Barbell Curls*
BEFORE: 135*4
CURRENTLY: 135*6

*Seated Dumbbell Overhead Extensions*
BEFORE: 100*6
CURRENTLY: 110*10

You'll notice that there aren't a whole lot of back or hamstring lifts (if any) on there. The reason for this is that my weights used for back have stayed very much the same (as is the case with hamstrings) but the effort to squeeze and hold the weight for a peak contraction on these two muscle groups has been MUCH improved. So while the lifts have remained essentially the same in terms of weight, the pump and muscle damage (the good kind) have made leaps and bounds. 

There are several other exercises worth giving general numbers on, but these are the major lifts that corrolated together in terms of how I discussed this corrolation above. As you can see, shoulders and triceps have made jumps, along with quads, while biceps and chest (except for cable presses with regards to chest) have not (relatively speaking). Again, I'll start being more diligent in my workout postings from here on in. 

Stay Green.

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## Huge Presser

Those are incredible gains bro... don't cut yourself short saying they might "seem small." Great job, especially on the dumbell military press, looks like a big strongpoint for you.
You're a fucking monster :Smilie: 

HUGE PRESSER

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## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by platinum_ 
> *
> 
> Did you ever decide on Tren vs. Winny? Maybe you did and I managed to miss it.
> 
> Platinum*


I'm still trying to decide, but I must arrive at that decision fairly quickly so that I can put in my order in time to have it when needed. To be honest, I have no serious competitive aspirations (though I'd like to compete on stage locally one day), and elected to cross to the darkside in order to look better and feel better about myself (vain, and perhaps a bit sad, but true). As such, while competitive bb'ers might see rapid hairloss as something they can deal with, it would be crippling to me. For that reason, I'm having serious second thoughts about the winny (though I'm also aware of fina's rep as being more than mildly aggressive on the hair line). Given that I haven't experienced any hair loss on the test and eq, is that a good sign that I might be okay with winny (i'm not using finastride or anything at all to stave off hair loss, it's just not happening...knock on wood)? 

Essentially, i'm just looking for something to run the last five to seven weeks of the cycle (18 total) that will allow me to get fairly aggressive with my cutting. I may even elect to run prop those last three weeks and screw adding anything extra. Either way, I want something active in me for the total 18 weeks (particularly the last three wherein i'll have ceased the eq and enan). As I've mentioned above, it looks as though I'll be traveling a bit, so it may be winny by default. So, to make a long story short, I haven't decided yet. Any and all input, as always, is quite welcome.

----------


## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by ColdStone_ 
> *youve almost even got me inspired to write my own log for my first...keep up the awsome work Bro!*


I would HIGHLY recommend that you do so. Not only will it help out newbies and rookies (as well as serving as a springboard for discussion among more seasoned members), but it will also bring you to a whole new level in terms of awareness of what you are going through. Forcing myself to organize and articulate my thoughts on what I'm doing (psychologically and physiologically) in this journal, is, I'd maintain, an invaluable experience in that you simply can not "just do it". In other words, just going through the motions can NOT be enough. You're forced to take stock in and responsibility of your training, diet, etc, etc in a way that subsequently forces you to be accountable in a manner that just isn't possible without some form of journal, whether it be online or self-contained. However, as mentioned above, if you're going to do it anyway, why not allow others to learn from your experiences. I know that several other journals on this site were instrumental in allowing me to intelligently discern what, exactly, I was getting in to.

----------


## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by johnsomebody_ 
> *I think you responded to my thread asking about HCG -I'm on it mid-cycle right now and it's really saved my, um, nuts. Are you still considering using it?*


I will be using it as planned. I designed the cycle (with much input from the AR membership over the course of a year or so) with a specific plan in mind and a reason for each component and aspect. While I've since questioned the original inclusion of HCG as a result of an (apparent) total lack of testicular atrophy, I've come to decide that sticking to the original plan can only help in this regard. So, yes, next week I'll be using it for a week, then once again towards the end (three weeks from clomid therapy) I'll run one more week. I would have preferred to use the "every weekend throughout" method, but am wary of not only storage integrity but sanitation and cleanliness issues part and parcel of that method.

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## Strut99GT

Excellent thread, BigGreen (I think I just spent about two hours at work going through this). Keep up the good work!

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## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by Strut99GT_ 
> *I think I just spent about two hours at work going through this*


I'm glad to see I'm contributing to your workplace delinquency...if I can do that just once a day, I'm happy. 

On a more serious note, a good chunk of my fears and concerns were validated this past weekend. Saturday was a guy's night out type of thing (not exactly a bachelor party...but a bunch of who will be in a wedding at the end of the summer informally got together) and included in the group were a number of people who have not seen me for a few months. Based on their reactions and comments, the fact that I don't see too much of a change in the mirror is likely an illusion on my part. Additionally, we went to a strip club (NEVER go to a strip club on a test cycle) and two or three of the strippers made comments along the lines of my chest being bigger than their chest...stuff like that. Don't worry, I'm aware of the fact that they make such comments to make money, but their comments have to have some truth in them so you don't catch on to that BS (they didn't for example, say anything similar to my friends, but did comment on the style of the one who drops about a grand on clothes a month), so I felt good about that, especially since chest is my lagging part right now  :Big Grin:  . Lastly, I picked up a PS2 game at wal-mart to keep me busy during this unemployed summer, and I was unsure if i was supposed to purchase it in the electronics section, or if I could continue shopping (i'm not sure if all walmarts are like this, but all of the ones that I have seen are) and pay at checkout. I asked the manager in the section, saying something to the effect of, "I just want to make sure I pay for this in the right place so I don't get jumped by walmart security when the sensors go off." He replied that even if they had all their security staff on duty he wasn't sure he had a guy who would be able to take me down. Now that felt great to hear  :Big Grin:   :Big Grin:  .

So, at the very least, this weekend was about having my gains externally validated in a way that lets me know I'm on the right track when I was beginning to have some serious fears/concerns. Oh, and it was also about learning a very serious lesson which I CAN NOT stress enough: *stay away from strip clubs while on test*...obeying the "rules" of the establishment became a case study in willpower and self-discipline.

Later tonight I'll post my "end of week seven" update.

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## rexboy

Hahahaha, dually noted and recorded...."STAY AWAY FROM HOOKERS."
Good to see your moral is up BG, a lot of your posts seem to have a somewhat depressed tone to them at times. You're a big guy just keep poundin away at the weights. At least you're not a midget like me.

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## Huge Presser

> _Originally posted by BigGreen_ 
> *
> I asked the manager in the section, saying something to the effect of, "I just want to make sure I pay for this in the right place so I don't get jumped by walmart security when the sensors go off." He replied that even if they had all their security staff on duty he wasn't sure he had a guy who would be able to take me down. Now that felt great to hear   .
> *


 :LOL: ... awesome that really must have been a booster.
You're a fucking monster bro... keep hitting those weights.
Lovin the updates, the thread was great before, but it's been dramatically improving as of late.

KEEP IT AT BRO!

HP

----------


## BigGreen

Start Weight: 241
End of Week One: 250
End of Week Two: 253
End of Week Three: 256
End of Week Four: 258
End of Week Five: 260
End of Week Six: 260
Current Weight: 258?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Okay, last week I was "okay" with the idea I hadn't gained weight during week six. This, however, is cause for concern. While I may be looking a bit more defined of late, I find it hard to believe I'm dropping bodyfat and building muscle, as I'm eating like I've never eaten before...even having taken in 20 grams of protein in the form of a shake with every solid food meal over this week, as I sincerely thought I'd make a run at 263-264 this week!! My enan is of the batch 007 (exp 2005) that has been getting some press lately as being underdosed. I'm starting to wonder if this is true? I'm contemplating two options right now. As i have an extra 10ml of the same batch, I could either bump up the dosage to 750mg/week (which, if we are to believe the "hype" would be closer to 500), or get the other bottle tested to settle this debate. I'd hate to think that my first cycle could be derailed by underdosing, but I'm at a total loss to explain the weight loss, particularly as I didn't drink or eat crap during the guys' night out....i brought Met-Rx bars for the traveling and chicken and rice for the hotel fridge. 

I see that a number of posts above have lauded my positive attitude of late, but it's hard to hold on to right now after this shocker (btw, I weigh myself on the sun, mon and tues leading up to these updates so that an outlier on tuesday wouldn't screw up the numbers). I'll be posting caloric intake later tonight or tomorrow, and maybe we can get to the bottom of this.

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## BIG TEXAN

BG, it's commont to fluxuate(spelling) in weight like that. So many variables play a role in it that worrying will get you no where. Hell eating a bit differently, sleeping les or more, whether you went to the restroom that day or not all can make a dramatic change in weight. Don't sweat it brother. Remember, go by the mirror and the weights.... not by the scale! Besides weigh yourself once a week at the exact time and day each week to get more of an accurate reading. Keep up with the good spirits because being negative can and will change the outcome of your cycle. Hell just to make ya feel better I'll post some pics tomorrow, how's that sound?  :LOL:

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## Juggernaut

Mr Big Green, I'm typing for my dad who is unable to do so himself and due to the fact I'm only 15 he said you are to cut me some slack with the grammer thing. I don't know what he means by that maybe some kind of inside joke. He won't allow me to read anything and he's made it clear I'm to type and nothing else. Lord I hope your dad is nothing like mine. I love him but he is a pain sometimes. So here is what dad says;

BG, I've read this thread twice today and can tell you are having great results from your hard work however due to your nature you are over analyzing. Big Teaxan's right your weight is going to go up and down. Keep thinking positive! What you want out of this is what you will get. Head to the Walmart when you feel a little down. Ok, that one I just don't get but he said you'll know what he means. Take care.

Juggernaut's daiughter

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## BigGreen

First off, that's f'n hilarious juggernaut...i was cracking up reading that.

Anyway, to further propogate my tendency to overanalyze, the following are reasons why I believe there IS test in my batch (QV 007 - Exp 2005) but it IS underdosed:

1. Primarily, my suspicions in and of themselves, as I was a rookie, didn't seem to warrant my crying "underdosed". However, many bros, both on this board and not on this board or any other board, seem to have experienced similar problems with this batch - from the seasoned vets to the newcomers. Here is AR's own discussion on the subject (still ongoing) 

2. Sex Drive/Libido: While it is no doubt there, and no doubt increased, the patterns are extremely regular and, whether or not this is a valid observation or simply a placebo effect of sorts, they seem to indicate that that they are not congruent with your average test experience. The libido is solid (no pun intended) in the a.m. and about 24 hours after a shot, but seems to drop off in the afternoon or if I haven't taken a shot in two days or so. Additionally, while it has occurred that a cartoon has made me horny while "on", it has also been the case that I was experiencing "here then gone" bedroom experiences that most seem to indicate can occur post-cycle and SHOULD NOT occur while on. Again, these events match the patterns above. 

3. Lack of any and all Visible Sides: No acne, no hair loss, no real bloat since I ceased dbol , no testicular atrophy of any kind. While I at first considered myself fortunate in not receiving any of these sides (though night sweats do occur in a BIG way) in even the slightest, I'm wondering if it is an underdosing issue. 

4. Psychological Sides: Increased confidence, general sense of well being, etc, all seem to indicate that there is a "surplus" of test in my system. However, the lack of physical sides in any real abundance lead me to speculate (and I'm using the truest meaning of the word 'speculate') that I'm straddling the line between enough test match my own production and give that extra "HRT-type" emotional/psychological effects, but not quite enough to induce extreme anabolism. 

5. Net Gains: Finally, I am gaining in strength, and while I was gaining nicely in size, the last few days seem to indicate a slight reversal in that trend (I was down to 257 today) and the last two weeks indicate a definitive standstill in progress. 

I know that no one can ever say that their diet and training are *perfect* but I'm being more disciplined in either than I ever have in the past, and that is saying quite a bit. Additionally, I'm a total newbie, so it's possible that I'm just not well enough informed to know whether or not what I am experiencing is indicative of what I "should" be experiencing. I have, however, talked with SEVERAL people over the last few days with much more experience than I, and they all seem to indicate that this batch is real, though underdosed (though ILF, who likely knows more than us all, seems to have faith in its legitimacy...the one thing that causes me to totally rethink my conclusions). 

At any rate, I'm giving very serious consideration towards upping the dosage.

----------


## BIG TEXAN

BG what lab or brand AS are you using?

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## Huge Presser

I think what he's using is QV. Check out that link he gave because there's lots of controversy over his particular lot... I would not be surprised if its underdosed.
Sorry to hear about this BG. But don't sweat the 2 pound loss  :Smilie: .
Shit... 4 days ago I was 161 and now I'm only 157, but I'm looking bigger and I'm stronger... go by the mirror, not the scale.

HP

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## BIG TEXAN

:No No:  Somebody's slacking.  :Wink:  C'mon BG what's going on? Find out any news on if your gear is legit or not? Lets see some updates!

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## sigrabbit

There was a recent post with a link to QV lab results for different batches.

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## BigGreen

Yes, I have been slacking...on the diary and on the board in general, but not with my training. I've been criss-crossing the country job interviewing all week, and only been in and out of my apartment a few times during this period. Things will be calming down now as I just arrived back home from my last interview for a little while. Tomorrow will bring updates and commentary, as I'm currently jet-lagged and dead tired.

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## BASK8KACE

Great info, bro. Thanks for writing all this out.

Bump.

xxample

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## BIG TEXAN

Ok, BG. I was just making sure you didn't fall off the face of the earth. Good luck on finding a job. Anything looking interesting yet?

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## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by BIG TEXAN_ 
> *Ok, BG. I was just making sure you didn't fall off the face of the earth. Good luck on finding a job. Anything looking interesting yet?*


Paywise, yes, plenty looks interesting. At each interview, however, I find it harder and harder to get myself interested for anything that isn't going to involve some form of teaching. I love working with people and participating in that whole sharing of knowledge thing. It's what drew me to personal training as well as tutoring. I guess what I really want to do is teach high school, but I never had that inclination until very recently, so I didn't undertake any of the necessary education courses to become a certified teacher. And don't get me started on teacher unions and this whole certification issue. Technically, Bill Gates isn't qualified to teach Computer Science to grade schoolers (or high schoolers) in Mass or NH, where I'm looking. Some of the individuals having written the narratives that many college English courses examine are technically unqualified to teach high school English under the curent set up! I just can't grasp the fact that corporations responsible to stockholders and boards far more reactionary than any school board have long since grasped the fact that a creative writing or psychology major can make a phenomenal financial analyst because they are incredible critical thinkers and quick on their feet while schools, who scream "teacher shortage!" can't look past the lack of a few education courses to see a highly qualified candidate. Of course, as individuals coming out or our nation's colleges with education degrees *consistently* (and with statistical significance) possess the lowest GPA's in courses that ALL students college-wide are required to take, I can't help but think many of our nation's public schools are scared to death of hiring candidates that may expose the weaknesses of such a system by actually succeeding without having taken theories of learning 101. Now I'm ranting.

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## BIG TEXAN

Well, if you want to teach so badly, quit your whining and move to Texas! That's right, here in Texas as long as you have a certain amount of college dreits you can teach high school while in the process of getting your teaching certification. I'm looking into it as I would love to teach history and coach. As for a job or career, money is nice but don't let that lead you in your desicion(spelling). I for one would rather get up day after day to a job I love and enjoy and that "may" pay little instead of forcing myself day in and day out to go to a job I hate and am miserable at. I've seen to many friends do this and after years of establishing themselves in that chosen business to switch careers midlife and start new in their 30-40's which is very dificullt. Hell I'm 25 and in the process of switching careers and having a family is making it that much more dificult. Good luck to you on your quest.

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## BigGreen

Well, after much thought and consideration, I've elected to up the dosage by 50% to what, according to QV, would be 750mgs/week, though I *sincerely* believe it to be closer to 400-500 based on everything I've heard, otherwise I would never dream of making such a decision. The next week or so, I'm hoping, will at the very least allow me to arrive at some conclusions as to whether this was the right decision to make. 

Furthermore, this whole issue has me more than a little soured on the whole AAS scene. While I realize full well that a singular experience in ANYTHING should not be taken to represent the totality, this has in many ways been a bit of a tough pill to swallow. After agonizing over this decision for a LONG time, to run into this issue somewhat devalues all that I've done and had done to travel this road in some odd way. While money is not a big issue for me as a result of my dad's will (though the crafty old man did set it up in such a way that we'll never be able to live the easy life off of it, but rather will be "subsidized" the rest of our lives), the money I dropped on this cycle, not to mention the mental agony of making the decision, could have been put to far better use. At present, I am seriously reconsidering whether I will undertake a second cycle. 

On the brighter side, I am beginning to make progress in the biceps, as a few new stretch marks empirically confirm. I've begun utilizing bands in my bicep work, as I'm one of those trainers that, once I get the weight moving on curls, there's rarely, if ever failure after that point. Thus, the bottom portion of the lift is my weak link, and it may be the fact that I have comparatively small biceps as a result of the last 80% or so never really having been trained with any real tenacity. What I do is set a heavy dumbbell in front of the curling station, and loop the band under the dumbbell and around the center of the bar....an phenomenal bicep workout. I've also been doing the same for preacher curls. 

The lats are also starting to come out, but I attribute that more to the "pump effect" than to anything else. As a result of the increased pumps (especially during the dbol stage) I was able to really "feel" what it was like to truly work the lats from ribcage to spine while doing any rowing exercise and have really been "pinning" those elbows for a nice peak contraction and it really shows, in my opinion. 

I have just a few more weeks of bulking, though this has been a *very* clean bulk so the transition from a bulk to a cut is going to be somewhat easier than I had thought previously. Vascularity is starting to come along nicely and I feel that I'm back on the right track having bumped the dosage up a little bit.

*on a non AAS related front, I went to a cookout yesterday where two very interesting things occurred:
1. There were several people there who hadn't seem me since high school (remember, i weighed about 165 at graduation) and were literally shocked to see my 100 pounds heavier...it was one of the coolest things ever. Of course, the AAS helped a bit, but even if they had seen me a day before my cycle even started, they would have been amazed. 
2. I also ran into a friend who was always a naturally muscular guy...and still is, but times ten! I HATE guys like this. He drinks like a fish, smokes like a fiend, and eats like total shit, but looks *amazing*. You hear about these people and wonder if they actually exist, but, oh yes, the definitely do! Not to demean anyone on the board, but he looks better than all but the most seasoned of trainers on this board and, while he works his ass off in the gym, he gets wasted every thursday, friday and saturday to the point of passing out, and he eats two or three times a day. I'm not joking when I say that if he actually started training and eating right there would not be a doubt in my mind that he could walk onto the olympia stage one day. That pisses me off in a lot of ways.

----------


## BigGreen

END OF WEEK EIGHT
Start Weight: 241
End of Week One: 250
End of Week Two: 253
End of Week Three: 256
End of Week Four: 258
End of Week Five: 260
End of Week Six: 260
End of Week Seven: 258
Current Weight: 257

Still somewhat perplexed as to why my weight has stagnated. Is it conceivable that some of the dbol water weight stuck around for two weeks after the dbol itself was stopped? If that's the case, that may very well explain the stagnation at week five and perhaps a bit of the dip after the fact. It does not, however, explain (in my estimation) why the last two weeks (the start of that period more than two full weeks removed from the last dbol administration) have seen a slight drop. As mentioned above, the discussion on this board, as well as bolex, meso and one or two others concerning my batch have me believing it is underdosed and I've upped accordingly. I'm hoping to snag some ICN's to finish off with. I am still debating between winny and fina...with fina starting to come out on top for the final phase of the cycle. 

More updates to follow as my home office isn't air conditioned and it's hot as hell here (by NE standards)

----------


## Huge Presser

First off, realize that this is just slightly over 1% of your bodyweight that you are losing. It is certainly no big deal. Go by and mirror and you might see better muscle seperation as it is possible that the dbol water stuck around longer then expected. I would certainly not worry about this... give the new dosage some time to kick in and in a week you will be back in the 260's for sure.

HP

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## BigGreen

Well, as per my upping the dose, injections are now on a M-W-F split, with eq going into the quads along with the test and test going alone on Wednesdays. Today, being Wednesday, I took a cc of test and decided to go for the calf. I just finished up. Actually getting the needle in was certainly more painful than the quads....today and tomorrow morning will tell whether I end up with that lingering soreness of the calves everyone seems to talk about. I truly hope I don't, as I'd like to use tren , but can't seem myself injecting anywhere that doesn't allow for the use of both hands.

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## bermich

I havent actually read this thread but since it keeps getting bumped up and has the most views out of all the threads, I just wanted to be a part of it.

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## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by bermich_ 
> *I havent actually read this thread but since it keeps getting bumped up and has the most views out of all the threads, I just wanted to be a part of it.*


That may be the wisest move you've ever made. I'm not going to lie to you my friend, there is a deep and internal struggle for power within the deep and dark foundations of that which you call "AR". Some battles are fought on middle earth, some in the heavens and others in galaxies far, far away. Rest assured, however, that this battle is being waged in the members' cycle results section. 

I'm quite possibly retarded.

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## BIG TEXAN

> _Originally posted by BigGreen_ 
> *I'm quite possibly retarded.*


 You've got my vote! :Big Grin:

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## Huge Presser

> _Originally posted by BigGreen_ 
> *That may be the wisest move you've ever made. I'm not going to lie to you my friend, there is a deep and internal struggle for power within the deep and dark foundations of that which you call "AR". Some battles are fought on middle earth, some in the heavens and others in galaxies far, far away. Rest assured, however, that this battle is being waged in the members' cycle results section. 
> 
> I'm quite possibly retarded.*


 :ROFLOL:

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## bermich

Quite possibly?? Its all about riding that little yellow bus home from school when you were a kid isnt it

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## majorpecs

> _Originally posted by BigGreen_ 
> *That may be the wisest move you've ever made. I'm not going to lie to you my friend, there is a deep and internal struggle for power within the deep and dark foundations of that which you call "AR". Some battles are fought on middle earth, some in the heavens and others in galaxies far, far away. Rest assured, however, that this battle is being waged in the members' cycle results section. 
> 
> I'm quite possibly retarded.*


 But the fact of the matter is...my thread is the longest and won't be beat by either BigGreen or BigTexan...and I second the motion about you being retarded :Wink:

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## Huge Presser

> _Originally posted by majorpecs_ 
> *But the fact of the matter is...my thread is the longest and won't be beat by either BigGreen or BigTexan...and I second the motion about you being retarded*


 :LOL: 
No major you're right, it won't be beat by BigGreen or Big Texan, it will be beaten by myself... seeing that I will continue to post responses to my own thread until I HAVE CONQUERED ABOVE ALL THREADS ON THIS ENTIRE FORUM :Big Grin: !!!

Peace,

HP

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## majorpecs

> _Originally posted by Huge Presser_ 
> *
> No major you're right, it won't be beat by BigGreen or Big Texan, it will be beaten by myself... seeing that I will continue to post responses to my own thread until I HAVE CONQUERED ABOVE ALL THREADS ON THIS ENTIRE FORUM!!!
> 
> Peace,
> 
> HP*


 I'll shoot your ass when you get too close... :Shoot:   :Shoot:

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## Huge Presser

> _Originally posted by majorpecs_ 
> *I'll shoot your ass when you get too close... *


That won't work either my friend... the bullets will bounce off my chest  :Devious: !!!

And sorry for ruining your thread Big Green  :Smilie: . But where's today's update?


HP

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## majorpecs

BigGreen...we will continue to hijack your thread with useless bantering until you update it :Wink:  Seriously, I hope it's still going good bro!!

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## BigGreen

> _Originally posted by majorpecs_ 
> *BigGreen...we will continue to hijack your thread with useless bantering until you update it Seriously, I hope it's still going good bro!!*


First, please allow me to get this out of the way: 

OWWOWWWWOWOWOWOWOWOWWWWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW WW!!!!!! ooooooooooooowwwwwwwwww!!

Okay, about the calf shot that seemed so innocuous after I did it, I went to sleep that night, woke up in the middle of the night to hit the bathroom, stepped out of bed and simply collapsed because by right calf, at least at the moment, didn't exist. It was one throbbing mess of pain and stiffness unable to take a step and, as a result, my entire body went crashing to the ground and somewhere at the end of that journey to the bedroom floor I chipped a tooth. Since my dentist is in my hometown, I had to go home and I've stayed home since, which I why I wasn't on until today when i had time to hook up the laptop. It still hurts, worse than my first quad shot did by about six hundred times, but, oddly enough, i'll probaby hit the calves again, since the pain in the quads seemed to subside after that first shot. What the hell is the cause of that first shot pain? It happened in both my quads and now my right calf. 

BTW, my tooth is fixed, but the jaw is still sore to. Not a good experience.

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## BIG TEXAN

BG I apologize.... I have accused you of sabotoging(spelling) Major and I. See, first major has his thread and breaks his leg. Next I have my thread and I mangle my thumb. So I put 2 and 2 together. Who here at AR has something against Texans..... YOU! So I figured you were hiding away in your new england home with your voo-doo magic making all these bad things happen. Well reading about your tooth has shot this theory all to hell. Now I believe AR's members cycle results forum to just be haunted and cursed, so to all of you keeping journals...... BEWARE! BEWARE!!!!!!!



Oh, I hope ya get better and I plan on hitting the calves again with fina.

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## David B.

> _Originally posted by BIG TEXAN_ 
> *BG I apologize.... I have accused you of sabotoging(spelling) Major and I. See, first major has his thread and breaks his leg. Next I have my thread and I mangle my thumb. So I put 2 and 2 together. Who here at AR has something against Texans..... YOU! So I figured you were hiding away in your new england home with your voo-doo magic making all these bad things happen. Well reading about your tooth has shot this theory all to hell. Now I believe AR's members cycle results forum to just be haunted and cursed, so to all of you keeping journals...... BEWARE! BEWARE!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> *


It's not just Texans.

http://www.anabolicreview.com/vbulle...629#post530629

Although I do live in a state that border's TX...

--dave

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## BigGreen

Well, a brief update is likely in order. My tooth is fixed, and if that's the worst of my AAS experiences, then I guess I'll count my blessings. While I can't yet render a definitive answer with regards to whether it's purely pyschological or not, upping the dose at the very least has me "feeling" like i'm on AAS now, which is a welcome change because I truly hadn't felt this way since the "dbol days". 

Still, I can't help but feel somewhat "robbed" and whether I do a second cycle or not will likely be determined by the fact that I want one real good one under my belt. The beginning goal at the cycle's inception was to see 270. I didn't think that was outlandish, particularly given that my 241 starting point was about 7-10 pounds below where I'd steadily held in the two months leading up to the cycle. Given that, i was essentially asking for 20 pounds...not a TON, but certainly ambitious. I still hope to hit that 270 mark nonetheless, whether that means extending the cycle as a whole, or simply reducing the cutting portion and lengthening the bulking. We'll see. For the first time in a while, though, i'm very much looking forward to my end-of-the-week update on tuesday.

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## aanold

Good to hear that upping the dosage got you back on track BG. This thread is rockin. Can't wait to see your final pics.

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## BigGreen

END OF WEEK NINE
Start Weight: 241
End of Week One: 250
End of Week Two: 253
End of Week Three: 256
End of Week Four: 258
End of Week Five: 260
End of Week Six: 260
End of Week Seven: 258
End of Week Eight: 257
Current Weight: 259

Well, I'll keep this brief, as I'm dead tired. First off, I'm ecstatic to see teh downward trend in weight gain being reversed, something likely attributable to the upping of the dosage, imo. I'm still slightly optimistic abouta decent run at 270 if I hold off on the cutting phase a bit longer...depending on how I gain in the coming two weeks I'll be forced to make that decision. 

Workouts are getting better as I feel more psychologically "in the ring" again, so to speak. The diet has been absurdly clean, and I haven't had a cheat meal, let alone a cheat day in some time. Fourth of July will be a cheat day to be sure, but I won't be touching beer or any alcohol. I'll try to keep it as clean as possible by bringing my own whole wheat buns to the cookout and going with burgers and whole wheat buns. Hell, maybe i'll even make a healthy wholewheat pasta salad. I'm already beginning the ambitious planning of my next cycle (hell, my next two) as I feel empowered by this thing being back on track. Of course, to avoid some of the uncertainties and let downs I experienced this go around with regards to quality of gear I plan on dropping some coin and going with a high quality cycle. I'm determined to go with ICN Galeinkas despite what that may do to my wallet. Unless they're absurdly priced to the point of being laughable, i'm willing to spend some more for quality in this instance. Anyway, this was supposed to be brief, so below I'm going to throw out the cycle ideas. This one ends in september, so I'm either going to run a comparably short bulker as soon as time clears in the winter, then a short cutter for late summer as well or run another long one (i'm still a fan of the theory behind these) that would end me at a point where I might peak in late july. 

The ideas:
Scenario A: (separate bulker and cutter)
12 week bulker consisting of test enan @500mg/week and tren [email protected] a yet-to-be-determined dosage (I'm waiting to hear how our members react to this compound) as the base. I believe I could get away with 500mg/week on the test for a second cycle (any thoughts?) and may substitute the classic deca for the tren enan if I don't feel comfortable with that. I was a big fan of dbol 's effectiveness as a kicker, and will likely repeat that. This would be followed ASAP (within reason, of course) by a pure cutter 8 weeks in duration. I'd leave out eq, as I don't know how anyone can cut with that stuff given it leaves me STARVING 24-7. It'd probably be a relatively simple prop/fina/winny...with the fina being of the tren acetate variety and the winny going only the last four or five weeks. 

Scenario B: (combined)
for this I'd go 18, maybe even 20 weeks. It'd essentially be the same cycle I'm in the midst of now with a few modifications. Those modifications may include, but are not limited to (felt obligated to include that) toying with the idea of prop as a kicker in lieu of dbol, or perhaps fina at the beginning. I'm also toying with the idea of masteron ...but nothing special.

----------


## BigGreen

A quick thought that has been criss-crossing my mind is the use of insulin in a later cycle. I've read up on it intensely, and firmly believe it is safe if used correctly and intelligently (in addition to letting someone real close to you in on the use in the event things should go very wrong). It's still a very, very long ways off if in fact i do utilize it (and that's a big if), but i'm wondering, for those following this thread, how many of you have considered it? What are your general thoughts. I never, ever want to get fancy in my cycles, and will likely stick to a simple stack of test and another compound for the rest of my days (eq or deca more likely than not). For cutting I may look at masteron . But winny and fina really make up the remainder of what I'd ever consider (though GH, somewhere out the there..way out far, is tempting as shit). Anyway, just curious.

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## Huge Presser

Congrats my friend, glad to see you reversing the trend! I myself was ectastic after starting the fina, as I've already gained 2 lbs, considering after the dbol my weight was fluctuating under 160 for 8 weeks. 
Have you chosen to go with the fina or winny? I went with the fina as I want to make a run at 170 (while you are making a run at 100 pounds more lol) seeing that gaining weight with winny appears to be a hard task. Let's get an update on that.
Also, how are your lifts coming along? Are you making improvements in your squat? 
Peace,
HP

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## BigGreen

> Are you making improvements in your squat? 
> Peace,
> HP


To be honest, I've been very, very wary with regards to forcing my lifts. I've felt pretty damn "banged up" of late...ankles, knees and hips, even a bit of the ol' elbows seem all to be just a little more "creaky" than they should be. So, to be completely honest, I'm backing off on trying to make any big progress on my lifts as I've always had a fairly good instinct for the onset of injuries that has allowed me to stay fairly injury free over the years, or, at the very least, having known a few days before hand that I should've backed off before an actual injury hit.

----------


## BigGreen

And by serious problems I mean beyond the normal range of what you guys might consider my day-to-day exhibited problems (which are serious to be sure...in their own way). This fourth of july weekend was very much demonstrative of some very conflicting issues regarding my progress. Friday was a family bbq and saturday was a friends bbq. At both, I was so very well behaved diet wise that it is almost absurd. Not a single beer at either party...in fact, not a single drink other than water. I brought chicken breasts to each to grill up, and, throughout the last 72 hours or so, my only real transgressions were hitting a couple of hamburgers on white buns and having a piece of pie for dessert at one of the get-togethers...not too shabby given my surroundings and the fact I'm still bulking, so it would have been easy to rationalize away some bad eats. 

At the first party, a number of aunts and uncles who hadn't seen me since xmas were blown away by how much more muscular i look. The few relatives I hadn't seen in almost two years were astonished to the point of actually poking me in disbelief! At the second party, a handful of girls I hadn't seen in a few months or so commented that they couldn't even get their arms all the way around my shoulders anymore when they hugged me! All of this had me on cloud nine, but the interesting part was yet to come.

Both bbq's were held at their respective locations for some very cool reasons. The family one because of the amazing pool my aunt and uncle put in last summer, my buddy's because he held it at his parents' beach house. Both days were sunny, in the 90's and, in short, perfect beach/pool weather. Yet, in both instances, I was literally terrified by the simple idea of taking off my shirt, and, to make a long-ass story short, didn't so much as get down to a t-shirt in either situation, let alone go shortless. At each party there was little to no question i was the most muscular guy overall at the place (there were bigger guys and there were guys with less bodyfat, but I was one of the few someone would look at and know with certainty the gym was an everyday part of my life, if I'm honest and objective with the situation). However, at each party I was so ashamed of either not living up to their expectations or my own, that I made some pretty lame excuses for not being able to swim, sunbathe, or otherwise frolic in the summer weather. This prompted me to think back over this summer thus far, and, while I've been to the beach SEVERAL times, I've yet to take my shirt off in public. This was common back when I first started lifting seriously, and I think the same mental thing is occurring again. Given the mental anxiety of making the decision to use AAS, i've once again raised the bar for what I expect myself to be just as I was starting to get comfortable enough with my body previously. 

Fortunately, I'm starting the leaning portion of my cycle in about seven days, and that will hopefully alleviate some of these concerns. Additionally, i'd be kidding myself and lying to you guys if I didn't state that this has me more than a little concerned regarding what my psychological addiction to AAS may turn out to be.

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## daem

> Additionally, i'd be kidding myself and lying to you guys if I didn't state that this has me more than a little concerned regarding what my psychological addiction to AAS may turn out to be.


I think it is awful early to make that kind of a call. You are still in your first cycle and approaching a great next month with tightening up, so focus on making the most out of your workout and leaning out without having cumbersome thoughts like that run through your head.

as far as physchological addiction is concerned, the feelings on cycle are unparalleled with sex drive and performance, putting on slabs of new muscle and being able to train as much as you can.

i feel invincible for the most part and that can have unfavorable repercussions down the line in important areas.

i have never felt like i am addicted in the purest form of the word, but more very disposed to bettering myself and pushing myself to the limits.
i can't train as intense as i want when off gear because i would either be injured or just beat my body into the ground. as long as i still recognize why i juice and have not achieved my goals yet i feel there is no reason to keep myself from getting there.

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## BigGreen

END OF WEEK TEN
Start Weight: 241
End of Week One: 250
End of Week Two: 253
End of Week Three: 256
End of Week Four: 258
End of Week Five: 260
End of Week Six: 260
End of Week Seven: 258
End of Week Eight: 257
End of Week Nine: 259
Current Weight: 259

Well, I officially begin easing into my cutting phase tomorrow, which I'm actually looking forward to. If I had to grade the bulking phase of my cycle, I'd give it a C-, maybe a straight C. On my end, there was a spell where the disgusting heat and humidity made it tough to eat, but that was really my only shortcoming to be frank. I trained very intelligently and ate reasonably clean for a bulking phase, never hitting pizza, fastfood, or any similar vices that normally find their way to my table during a bulking phase about once per week. My only real cheat over the past ten weeks was my girlfriend's birthday, when I had some strawberry shortcake (made with whole wheat flour though). I skipped graduation parties, festivities and many a cookout/bbq for this cause...having had a total of about two beers during the past seventy days (not that I normally indulge in beer, but to not have had a single weekend where I even worked a buzz is, I believe, indicative of my dedication here). I feel that all of my efforts were fairly derailed, however, by the fact that I believe I've essentially done an eq only cycle for a good chunk of these ten weeks. I can't begin to express (re-express, actually) the utter shock and dissapointment of dropping weight during my first cycle where the intention was to gain...at one point I spent two days at 264, but then took a big dive downwards. There was about one 10 day period or so were I felt like i was "on test", but otherwise nothing. 

On the brighter side, I'll be switching ASAP to Research Tech gear in hopes of having the cutting portion turn out for the best. I think things will go fairly well and you guys will be impressed. I'm considering posting pics of the halfway point, so keep your eyes peeled.

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## BIG TEXAN

:No No:  Um, can we say SLACKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok now BG, I've been cuting you some slack being from New England and all (have to treat them the same as children ya know) but it's been almost a week now. Enough with the social club playing cricket. It's time to get this thread moving along. Don't make me come up there!!!!!!  :LOL:  Seriously BG, something up that has ya occupied?

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## Huge Presser

Shit Big T it was only 3 days  :LOL: !!!... cut the guy some slack he's been busy cutting, I guess.

BG lets get an update brotha.....

-HP

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## BigGreen

> Shit Big T it was only 3 days !!!... cut the guy some slack he's been busy cutting, I guess.
> 
> BG lets get an update brotha.....
> 
> -HP


Yeah, cut me a little slack. The country club was running a charity golf, croquet, sailing AND yachting (yes, there is a HUGE difference between yachting and sailing, and I pity those who have not indulged in that fine difference between the two) event, so I was most busy.  :LOL: 

Seriously, I had a wedding this weekend way the hell out on the cape, and anyone from this area knows that a weekend on the cape involves leaving on early in the week unless you relish the idea of taking an hour to cross the bourne bridge....so I've been VERY busy between the actual wedding and traveling to and from. And yes, I just ended a sentence with a preposition...sue me. 

As far as updates go, HugePresser is correct, I've spent this time over the past week transitioning into a cutting phase, and no matter how carefully I plan these transitions or how gradually I ease into them, my body ALWAYS fights back for the first ten days or so and I feel just "BLAH". That is most certainly the case at present, as I've already taken two naps today, and it's not quite noon yet. With regards to strategies surrounding my cutting, I'm undertaking one major deviation from that which I've done in the past (besides the whole "natural" thing), that being that I'll keep my workouts largely the same throughout my cutting. In the past, I've immediately transitioned into a cutting phase by popping up the reps on ALL exercises, cutting back on the volume per workout but upping the frequency overall, and, while still utilizing free weights, changing the machine/free weight ratio to about 40/60 or so. This go around, I'm going to dance with who got me there, hoping that the AAS gives me some leeway with regards to muscle wasting or overtraining while cutting and I'll be keeping my current routine. Reps will be slightly bumped up in the sense that I'll be limiting my 2-4 rep sets that occassionally find their way into my training, but otherwise, my split will remain the same (about a 70/30) ratio of free weights to machines. Really, the only thing that will cause me to rethink this strategy is the introduction of winny in a few weeks should the joint pain turn out to be as bad as some have indicated. 

All for now.

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## BIG TEXAN

Ok, I'll let ya slide on this one.  :Wink:  If you need any help or advice on the dieting just give me a holler bro and I'll help ya out as much as I can. I know what ya mean about feeling "blah". I've been stuck like that for 2 weeks now.  :LOL:

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## BigGreen

I know I'm slacking again. My big end of the week update was supposed to be yesterday, but i've been fairly busy. I promise I'll get to it either tonight or tomorrow AM.

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## BigGreen

END OF WEEK ELEVEN
Start Weight: 241
End of Week One: 250
End of Week Two: 253
End of Week Three: 256
End of Week Four: 258
End of Week Five: 260
End of Week Six: 260
End of Week Seven: 258
End of Week Eight: 257
End of Week Nine: 259
End of Week Ten: 259
Current Weight: 255

Well, this time, the drop in weight was not only expected, but desired. This is the real test of the cycle, partly because (barring test results to the contrary, but I don't see how it's possible to turn out any other way than expected) the mass accumulation phase was somewhat compromised by *very*  suspect doses, but also because I always tended to add weight much easier than I was able to take it off without losing a good chunk of muscle in the process. While I'm by no means rushing the leaning phase or starving myself in the hopes that the AAS will preserve my LBM, I am hoping that the presence of the drugs allows me to approach this diet with an increased chance of retaining LBM as compared to past attempts. Also, as I believe I've mentioned, I will *NOT*  be taking my traditional approach of leaning that in the past has entailed switching to a predominantly cable and machine based workout, with reps being bumped through the roof. Essentially, I'm going to "dance with who brung me here", to quote some old-school basketball coach. I suspect that part of the reason my leaning attempts in the past were met with unsatisfactory results had a lot to do with the workouts themselves, as opposed to the diet. I'm going to continue to hit the weights hard this time around under the belief that it's also been a lack of muscle stimulation in the past that led to lackluster results. I'll keep you posted as to how it goes, but right now, after some initial lethargy, I'm actually feeling pretty fine.

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## sigrabbit

I agree with your theory on maintaining your training routine throughout your cutting phase. If we think about it, your body has to respond to intense muscle use by preserving that source of energy for the elevated demands, so it should draw energy from more desireable sources such as bodyfat. My thoughts are similar to yours I guess.

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## BigGreen

I haven't been posting nearly as much as I "should be" on this thread (or the board as a whole for that matter) as the LSAT prep is literally devouring my time right now. It's the major reason I've elected to take the summer off, so I'm trying to be diligent as hell. I'll try to be "better" in the coming weeks, as A) I can't be letting BigTexan's and/or Huge Presser's journals run away with this thing and B) I've heard that with my general absence, the Texans are walking around like they own the joint.

On a more journal related note, i've switched over to RT products for the remainder of the cycle. I have every reason to believe that'll go well. I'll keep ya'll posted on that, in addition to laying out my post cycle plans....i'm planning on (after a nice recovery period) getting back to basics and essentially doing nothing but deads, squats, bench presses, cleans, rows, military presses, close-grips, pull-ups and chin-ups for 2-3 months.

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## johnsomebody

Hey BG, I know how you feel about that questionable test -I'd intended to run it at only 300mg/wk but eventually hit 800 week six. After that kicked in was the only time I really felt like I was "on gear" as I'd expected. I had to drop it to 700mg/wk for the next two weeks because I was running out and when the Prop my source promised never showed up, had to end it there.

Huck Finn over at EF recommends running EQ past test to retain gains, so iit may not be a bad thing as long-term gains are all I'm interested in. 

I even found an Abstract that says test added no gains to an anabolic cycle -" CONCLUSIONS: The use of anabolic steroids increases the lean muscular mass. The inclusion of testosterone did not increase the lean muscular mass."

http://anabolicreview.com/vbulletin/...threadid=58630

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## BigGreen

My proposed workout schedule following cycle. Again, for those who haven't read this from the beginning, I'm a FIRM believe not only in cycles of comparably longer length, but those that end in a leaning phase and begin with a mass accumulation. One substantial reason for ending with a cutting phase is so that I might take advantage of the rebound effect that occurs when one attempts to gain mass after a cutting phase. As such, going right from a cycle to a bulking regimen may seem to some a bit much, but I believe it's the best way to prod your natural balance back into full gear. Anyway, with a week or so of recovery under my belt after the cycle's end in about six weeks, I plan on hitting the following basic workout. I'm getting back to the basics and going for some pure size...screw symmetry and screw the pump for now. If I'm where I expect to be post-cycle, i think i'll finally be at a point in my development where i can bulk up without needing to throw on lots of fat to get there. Anyway, the breakdown is a MWF one, with Monday being "Push Day", Wednesday "Leg Day" and Friday "Pull Day". I know this seems to go against my constant preaching that you shouldn't have a "leg day" in your routine, but rather, separate workouts for calves, hams and quads...but that largely applies to workouts that insist on insanely broken up splits with a separate day for bis, a separate day for traps, yet one day for "LEGS"..that's what I don't like. Plus, this is a major part of my philosophy that you need MAJOR overhauls every three months or so in your training split. 

MONDAY - Push Day
*Bench Press: (true pyramid) 12-8-6-2-6-8-12
*Military Press: 3 sets of 6-10 reps
*Close Grip Bench: 3 sets of 6-10 reps
*Weighted Dips: 3 sets of 6-10 reps

WEDNESDAY - Leg Day
*Squats - (true pyramid) 15-12-8-4-8-12-15
*Leg Press - 3 sets of 6-10 reps
*Glute/Ham Raises - 3 sets of 4-8 reps
*Stiff Leg Deadlifts - 3 sets of 8-12 reps
*Box Step-Ups - 3 sets of 10-15 reps
*Selected Calf Exercise - 3 sets of 12-15 reps

FRIDAY - Pull Day
*Deadlifts - (true pyramid) 12-8-5-2-5-8-12
*Pull-Ups - 3 sets of however many reps I can manage at that time
*Chinups - 3 sets of same rep restrictions
*Barbell Rows - 3 sets of 10-12 reps
*Good Mornings - 3 sets of 10-12 reps

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## BigGreen

Oh yeah, I'd also really like to work hanging cleans into that routine somewhere or other...anyone care to comment as to where they might work best? My inclination is to stick them with pull day, but I can see some excellent arguments in favor of push day and even leg day.

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## BigGreen

Well, I absolutely have to decide in the next few days which direction I'm heading in with regards to the final phase of the cycle. I'd seriously entertained the notion of just letting the esters self-taper the last few weeks solo, but that isn't exactly how I intended to do things, and I'd prefer to stick with the plan in this regard. As I continue to ask questions about winny, I'm failing to see the risk/return tradeoff warranting its use. Hairloss is an *extremely*  unwanted side in my situation, given my mishaped head and unattached earlobes! I'm beginning to lean towards fina at a low dose of 40-50mgs/day for six weeks. It's cheaper by a longshot and the sides seem to be more within an acceptable range for my liking. I will have to come to terms with the fact that its reputation for not being a begginer's drug is likely deserved, but right now that is the front runner. Don't be surprised if I solicit some opinions from those of you keeping up with this thread.

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## sigrabbit

BG, here are some comments I put on HP's thread about my Fina use since June 20:

"I cannot make up my mind on Tren either HP. I notice definite hardness, and slight strength increase that may simply be attributed to a fraction more gym aggression, but I don't notice much in the way of sides. I have noticed that my lower back pumps up in a painful manner, and my hair seems to be brittle, but the night sweats stopped, no acne, no uncontrollable rage, etc. I would be very dissappointed if it weren't so cheap. I will continue to run it as planned to see if my opinion changes."

My first cycle was winny only, no flaming because I did not know any better. I have to say that the effects from winny are much more pronounced than the fina, so far. However, I was not cutting when I took the fina so the dramatic strength increases could have been aided by the "normal" amount of food. If your concern is hairloss, I must point out that my hair seems to be really brittle while on fina/prop. I did not notice the same effect from winny.

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## BigGreen

> If your concern is hairloss, I must point out that my hair seems to be really brittle while on fina/prop. I did not notice the same effect from winny.


Fucking A!!! Exactly what I was afraid of! Shit, maybe i'll just get them both, and start with the winny. If it seems to be thinning my hair I'll discontinue, give it time to clear and then start the fina...if that starts plucking locks of blonde I just let the eq and enan taper out alone.

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## ColdSore

I dont know if i would totally rule fina out though BG...alot of people on this board have very different opinions about the drug...some wont do a cycle without it, some hate it b/c of sides, and for some it just doesnt seem to do anything to them....i contemplated my decision to use tren for along time like yourself, and i eventually decided to go for it...i took my first shoot last night! Im anxious to see how it affects me, although i am kind of worried about the side....i say go for it, use it and if you dont like what its doing then cut it off and let the test and EQ taper and throw some clen in to cut some fat if you want....i think that would work alot better for you....but thats just me

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## BigGreen

END OF WEEK TWELVE
Start Weight: 241
End of Week One: 250
End of Week Two: 253
End of Week Three: 256
End of Week Four: 258
End of Week Five: 260
End of Week Six: 260
End of Week Seven: 258
End of Week Eight: 257
End of Week Nine: 259
End of Week Ten: 259
End of Week Eleven: 255
Current Weight: 252

Well,the weight is coming off slightly more quickly (but not by much) than I would have liked, but the mirror tells a pretty good story, so I'm not going to complain too much. I'm looking forward to posting the after pics and will continue to should everything keep up as it currently is. The biggest difference I have noticed between dieting natural and dieting with gear is that my strength levels haven't instantly dropped off as was the case so many times in the past. I suppose this can only be a good thing. This is a fairly uneventful update, as my major concerns (fina vs. winny and where to include cleans in the new workout split) were addressed above. I have, however, been given an opportunity to train with a fairly successful NPC level competitor this fall, and I'm GREATLY looking forward to that!

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## BigGreen

A quick update is an order regarding a dream last night. I've been gradually cutting back on carbs over the last two weeks or so to the point that, currently, I'm taking them in only for my first meal of the day and my postworkout meal (though every 10th day or so I "carb-up", which seems to be doing wonders for me). So, while it had been easy thus far (even with eq hunger...which is a weird kind of hunger: it's always "there" but never urgent - hard to explain i guess) I think it got to me a little last night, as I dreamt that I stuffed my face with bagels and apple juice. I mean, this juice was slopping all over me like i was anchor man in quarters or something....I woke up thinking I'd totally blown my diet. As soon as I realized I was dreaming a felt a LOT better. Well, Saturday's my carb up day, so I don't have to hold out much longer.

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## wannabmassive

excellent

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## Wiggum

BG - 

I don't post much on this forum (or on others for that matter), but I have been reading your cycle diary for the past weeks. I guess I'm more of a sponge absorbing information on this site for the time being. Anyway, I wanted to say that you are the definition a true athlete. NO bs, my man. You live, breath and dream bodybuilding. As a former rower who was dedicated to the sport for 10 strong years, I've had the same emotions, questions and motivations as you (regarding my sport). (And yes, I raced Dartmouth for 4 yrs while in college. Hell of boathouse you guys got on the CT river!!) 

And for others: this is not meant to say that the rest of you are _not_ athletes...it's just very evident with BG here. So kudos bro. I'm very impressed, keep it up and I know you'll reach all your goals. Good luck! 

 :Thumps Up:   :Cheers:

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## BigGreen

END OF WEEK THIRTEEN
Start Weight: 241
End of Week One: 250
End of Week Two: 253
End of Week Three: 256
End of Week Four: 258
End of Week Five: 260
End of Week Six: 260
End of Week Seven: 258
End of Week Eight: 257
End of Week Nine: 259
End of Week Ten: 259
End of Week Eleven: 255
End of Week Twelve: 252
Current Weight: 250

While I still plan on having my remaining QV enanthate tested, I really consider it a formality to surmise that the stuff was underdosed. It's now been about three or four weeks since I upped the dosage and then transitioned to RT gear, and I finally feel comparable to what I felt while using dbol . I hate to admit it, but I do think my first cycle was severely compromised by the this, to the point I likely did a dbol only cycle, waited a bit with an eq bridge and then started test. This is not to say I'm complaining, and it's also very likely that this little problem, though not the ideal way to go about it, may have mitigated some of my more unrealistic ambitions with regards to a first cycle. Nevertheless, the stuff is helping out now...my performance in the gym, normally abysmal as I drop carbs, is holding strong, with a select few exercises continuing to see increases, though there also exist a few with a slight dropoff (though I attribute this more to the fact that, even with aas, my body HATES to go over 40 mins in a workout when the carbs are lacking and these exercises are overwhelmingly in the latter half of my workout).

Well, I'll add some more in a bit...i hafta run now.

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## BigGreen

END OF WEEK FOURTEEN
Start Weight: 241
End of Week One: 250
End of Week Two: 253
End of Week Three: 256
End of Week Four: 258
End of Week Five: 260
End of Week Six: 260
End of Week Seven: 258
End of Week Eight: 257
End of Week Nine: 259
End of Week Ten: 259
End of Week Eleven: 255
End of Week Twelve: 252
End of Week Thirteen: 250
Current Weight: 249

Well, it appears as though things are going quite well during the latter half of my cycle, thanks in large part (as far as I'm concerned) to my transitioning to RT gear. As a side, I will definitely be using the stuff for cycle #2 (already being planned) and am looking forward to that in a BIG way. 

With regards to my current cycle, I have added cardio starting just this morning and will maintain it until the end of the cycle. I could not be happier with the manner in which this gear is ameliorating or eliminating altogether the normal problems I encounter while shedding bodyfat. Primarily, it has thus far been of great assistance in keeping my "full", as a flat look is normally the first casuality during my dieting, even with carefully planned carb reloadings and such. Normally it hits me and then I "rebound" eventually, but this time it's been circumvented altogether - something I'm quite pleased with. Secondly, vascularity in my upper body tends to diminish (though it goes crazy in the legs) while dieting until the very end when it creeps back in today. Likely an effect of the equipose, it has happily stuck around this time. Again, if things continue to go as planned I think a great many of you will be impressed by the after pictures. Admittedly, they would likely have been much better had the initial mass accumulation phase gone better, but I think the end results will be solid nonetheless. 

Strength has also held up during my leaning out...another shocker as it usually plummets in the first month of leaning before leveling out. I have seen a slight dip, but nothing as compared to the past. I know that many will write this off as poor dieting, and I'm sure some poor planning in the past contributed to this precipitous decline, though, rest assured, it has occurred even with the assistance of a nationally competitive bodybuilder in my dieting plans, so it can't be all poor planning on my part. 

I've decided to stay away from winny as I covet my hair, and the chances are I'll be letting the compounds clear "on their own" during the two weeks after my last enan injection. I ordered some fina just to have, and there's a slight chance I may convert it tomorrow to run for the last six weeks, but it's not likely. As much as I'd like to have "something" in my system during those final weeks, I may just leave well enough alone. 

Well, that's all for now....i promise I'll be a bit more active in this forum again, as I've not only posted in this very often (which has killed the traffic my poor journal used to see) but have neglected to keep up on the journals of others.

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## BigGreen

I know i'm late on my weekly update...will get to it today...I promise!

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## BigGreen

END OF WEEK FIFTEEN
Start Weight: 241
End of Week One: 250
End of Week Two: 253
End of Week Three: 256
End of Week Four: 258
End of Week Five: 260
End of Week Six: 260
End of Week Seven: 258
End of Week Eight: 257
End of Week Nine: 259
End of Week Ten: 259
End of Week Eleven: 255
End of Week Twelve: 252
End of Week Thirteen: 250
End of Week Fourteen: 249
Current Weight: 247

While things are going pretty damn well, I'm at that critical point in leaning where everything sucks. The weight loss hasn't yet given you enough of an increase in definition to justify the fact that you're getting smaller and psychologically feel like "The Incredible Shrinking Man"...it's sort of like dieting limbo.

I have much to add, and will do so, but i want to post this quickly, as the board has been notorious in the last few days for "timing out" on me or whatever while I compose posts...i've lost about twenty lengthy posts these few days  :Frown:

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## BigGreen

Well, as things come to a close, I figured I'd reflect on a few things; not so much the big picture, as I plan on doing that towards the very end of this thread, but just on a few things that currently come to mind. I continue to be haunted by my QV woes that are pretty well covered in this thread. Until switching to RT gear, I was convinced that dbol was the king of all AAS, because even on test i didn't feel anything comparable to dbol in the least. Having been on the RT enan for five weeks now, I'm just beginning to realize how much I may have been "robbed" in my first cycle. The final piece of anecdotal evidence comes in the form of sex drive. On dbol it was through the roof. After dbol it was down in all but the most "conducive" of situations (a strip club, bars, the beach, and similar situations)...having switched to RT, I now find myself unable to watch a Red Sox game (who, incidentally smacked Seattle tonight on the shoulders of one Pedro Martinez) without scanning the crowd for hotties. Looking at apartments I have to hide my semi if the realtor is a decent looking female. The final piece of evidence will come when I receive test results from SR, which I will post immediately after. I almost consider it a formality, but may very well end up being shocked (though I can't see it being any other way). 

Essentially, if the expected is borne out and it was grossly underdosed (or even bogus..though i doubt it'll be that extreme), the following is what I essentially and unwittingly did:
*Weeks 1-4 dbol
*Weeks 1-14.5 eq
*Weeks 1-7 QV test enan at a supposed 500mg/week
*Weeks 8-10 QV test enan at a supposed 750mg/week
*Weeks 11-15.5 RT test enan at 500mg/week

What that boils down to, in effect, is a little dbol cycle with an eq bridge (and maybe or maybe not a low dose test companion) into a 5.5 week test cycle...not exactly what I had in mind for my first experience in this game. So i'm guessing that's all for now, I'm a few days away from my last shot and then the real hard part comes.

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## BigGreen

END OF WEEK FIFTEEN and a HALF
Start Weight: 241
End of Week One: 250
End of Week Two: 253
End of Week Three: 256
End of Week Four: 258
End of Week Five: 260
End of Week Six: 260
End of Week Seven: 258
End of Week Eight: 257
End of Week Nine: 259
End of Week Ten: 259
End of Week Eleven: 255
End of Week Twelve: 252
End of Week Thirteen: 250
End of Week Fourteen: 249
End of Week Fifteen: 247
Current Weight: 246

Well, today was my last shot  :Frown:  and wouldn't you know it, for whatever reason I kind of froze on it. I've gone through 30 shots and for some reason number 31 is the only one other than the first and maybe the second that I really sort of "freeze" on. It may have to do with the fact I suspect I had my first run-in with scar tissue and my first plunge came to a screeching hault not even a sixteenth of an inch into the quad, but I'm not so sure...even before that poke I was a little nervous about the shot. Very weird. 

Anyway, test results on my QV enan should be in shortly, and I will certainly post them as soon as the attachment is emailed to me. With each passing day on RT, however, this becomes even more and more a formality, as I've discussed above. I will be absolutely *floored*  if it comes back as accurately dosed. 

As anyone who has read through the entirety of this is well aware, I often oscillated between being enthusiastic about a second cycle and being downright scared of the idea I was already thinking about #2. Currently, I am happy to report that #2 is well in the works and i'm greatly looking forward to it. This will be a shameless plug, but I'm planning on running a year-long journal that will comprise two cycles, several dietary strategies and more than a handful of workout programs. I hope that it will blow this journal away. 

Lastly (for this post anyway), I will be holding off on posting after pics until the results of the QV test come back...i'll feel a lot better, not to mention more responsible, if I can state that it was or was not what I thought I was getting (not to make excuses, as I'm quite happy with my progress regardless).

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## BigGreen

Some final stats before I post final thoughts later on:

*Net Weight Gain*: 8lbs (this stat is deceptive seeing as how i spent six weeks leaning out pretty aggressively)

*Peak Weight Gain*: 24lbs (this number is also deceptive as I leaned out a little before starting the cycle)

*Peak Weight Gain over Previous High*:  4lbs (also a tenuous stat at best as my body comp was _much_  improved at this weight range over last time).

*Teeth Lost*:  One (see previous page i believe...maybe two back).

*Strength Gains (rough):*   260 Incline Press for heavy double before cycle, 295 after. 1,000lb leg press before cycle was a heavy triple on most days (sometimes more), two nights ago it was a legitimate 10 full reps. True glute ham raises prior to the cycle I would struggle to get four and accentuating the negative portion at the bottom of the descent was rough, now I'm getting a good 6-8 reps with 90% of the descent spot on. Before cycle i would sometimes throw 135 on the barbell to do a heavy single (sometimes a double) for curls followed by some negatives - with decent form (not perfect) it's now a legit working set (4-6). I have some other numbers I could dig up, and I'm taking this off the top of my head without consulting my workout journal, but they're definitely accurate. What I can't say for sure right now is whether my strength peaked a few weeks ago and has been going down since i started leaning. What I can definitively say is that the worst part about leaning in the past for me was an _insane_  drop in strength and gym performance. Presently, taking in hardly any carbs except for Saturdays and a slight bump to 70 grams on Wednesdays, a testament to the gear I'm on is the fact I'm even debating whether strength has gone down..in the past it would have been a given.

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## BigGreen

are people still checking this out...i don't want to go through the final stages of this for my own edification...i can do that just fine.

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## Huge Presser

I'm still followin ya BG. Doing great work bro.

I say since you've already gone this far, why not just add the finishing touches to an incredible diary?

HP

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## BigGreen

I was just checking...i feel horrible because i read this section everyday and hardly reply. I mean, how much can you really say once you get to a certain level, as things kind of level off? I'll be finishing it off, with post-cycle pics coming up shortly.

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## BigGreen

Post-cycle Pics Will Be Up Tuesday!!

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## David B.

> are people still checking this out...i don't want to go through the final stages of this for my own edification...i can do that just fine.


Sure, keep it coming.

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## David B.

> As I continue to ask questions about winny, I'm failing to see the risk/return tradeoff warranting its use. Hairloss is an *extremely*  unwanted side in my situation, given my mishaped head and unattached earlobes! I'm beginning to lean towards fina at a low dose of 40-50mgs/day for six weeks. It's cheaper by a longshot and the sides seem to be more within an acceptable range for my liking. I will have to come to terms with the fact that its reputation for not being a begginer's drug is likely deserved, but right now that is the front runner. Don't be surprised if I solicit some opinions from those of you keeping up with this thread.


I rather enjoyed the renewed strength gains at the end stages of my last cycle when I added winny. It was a nice little plateau buster. But then hair loss is not an issue for me, no MPB even at age 47.

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## BigGreen

> I rather enjoyed the renewed strength gains at the end stages of my last cycle when I added winny. It was a nice little plateau buster. But then hair loss is not an issue for me, no MPB even at age 47.


My bad...i guess i never really clarified that I elected to go with neither compound to finish off the cycle. Yes I'm somewhat regretting that decision, but I did not want to be overly ambitious. The next cycle (test enan, tren enan and eq will fill that nicely)

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## Dude-Man

Haha, it's kind of funny. just when you post that you were wondering if anyone was still reading, i finish it. Started at 4:50 and just finished. This has been an epic adventure. It's certainly helped me learn a lot about the virgin experience. Despite all that i've learned, I'm still going to hold off on my own maiden voyage. I want to make sure that I've exhausted every other means of gain before i start. At 5'9 and 157, i feel like i've got some ways to go, probably 6 months to a year or more before i start. But your log has been unimaginably helpful. thanks, and can't wait to see the pics. 
-chris

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## aanold

> are people still checking this out...i don't want to go through the final stages of this for my own edification...i can do that just fine.


BG,

Been following it the whole time. Only been able to get the time to visit about once a week. Definitely looking forward to seeing the end result pics along with the lab reseults of that Test.

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## BigGreen

Well, pics will be up in a moment. Again, I want to preface these with a qualifier. I'm psyched at the progress I made, especially  in the shoulders...they just BLEW up! While on dbol I couldn't even shoot hoops with my little cousin because of the pump in my shoulders. I think you'll see, even with the limited comparsion pics and shitty quality that I also made decent progress in another one of my critical goals: widening the back. Arms continue to remain a desparate weak spot, but I also believe improvement is evident there as well. That all being said, however, there's a decent likelihood that my QV was either underdosed or faked, and while I'm having it tested i have to live with the fact that this testing is something I probably should have done *before*  starting my cycle, not after the fact. Oh well, live and learn. In the future, particularly as I like longer cycles that hence cost more money, I'll be testing a bit from each and every cycle since that cost will only represent say, 15% of the cycle's total cost. So, the bottom line with the possibility of the fake or underdosed test story is that, while I'm happy with my gains, I'll be a lot happier with them if it turns out I essentially did an eq only cycle for a majority of the fifteen weeks, if you get what I'm saying. I never "blew up", never had acne, never had any noticeable testicular atrophy to speak of (even on a 15 weeker!), and so on and so on. As you'll see, gains are there for sure, but they seem commensurate with descriptions of eq only cycles. If it turns out the test was the real deal all along, then I have to look in the mirror and assess where it is I went wrong, because I don't believe for an instant that these gains are emblematic of a 15week cycle of test and eq. So, without further delay, here they come:

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## BigGreen

Here ya go, the infamous rear double bi. My left forearm gets cropped off in each picture, but I have to take these myself (it's a long story that has my girlfriend calling me narcissistic at the end), so at least the same part got cropped in both. As you can see, I don't think I'm imagining things when I say that my shoulders responded very well and there's a hint of the back tapering better than it had before.

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## BigGreen

It's from this angle that you can really see what I'm talking about with regards to arms being weak. They tend to be a peek-a-boo bodypart, meaning they can hold their own when flexed (you'll see what i mean, i hope, below) but look rather sad and small when unflexed. As soon as untense, the muscle goes and hides in the shoulder girdle or torso somewhere, i swear.

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## BigGreen

And finally, as the server switched while i was in the midst of posting this pic last night, the arm comparison. Some progress was made, imo, though there's not question it's still a weak spot...very much so. I'm hoping my next routine that stresses the old basic lifts for mid to low reps will put some size on.

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## ENraged

> And finally, as the server switched while i was in the midst of posting this pic last night, the arm comparison. Some progress was made, imo, though there's not question it's still a weak spot...very much so. I'm hoping my next routine that stresses the old basic lifts for mid to low reps will put some size on.



nice def on the shoulders. very noticable.  :Afro:

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## Dude-Man

yeah, you made some great progress with your shoulders back and neck. I hear what you're saying about arms being peek a boo, i have that same problem. Mine are 13 1/2 unflexed, 16 flexed.. people are always like "what the hell?" It looks like you may share my problem, which is a relatively long humerous (upper arm) bone. It gives the appearance of very small biceps/triceps. Guys with long legs have the same problems with their gastrocnemius (calves)

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## Swellin

I have followed the this thread, but I have not posted...til now. First of all, BG, one hell of a diary. Excellent info for the rest of us! 

As for your gains...
marked change in V-taper
delt growth
more def in arms
pecs have more depth

Nice goin' BG!

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## talon

> yeah, you made some great progress with your shoulders back and neck. I hear what you're saying about arms being peek a boo, i have that same problem. Mine are 13 1/2 unflexed, 16 flexed.. people are always like "what the hell?" It looks like you may share my problem, which is a relatively long humerous (upper arm) bone. It gives the appearance of very small biceps/triceps. Guys with long legs have the same problems with their gastrocnemius (calves)


I heard they have a new plastic surgery procedure for this. It called shortenthehumerous. First, they take you arm off, by detaching it from the scapula at the glenoid cavity, seperating the acromion from the tubercle of the humerus. After this they will cut a chunk out of your humerous and shorted the biceps' muscle belly. Then they will reattach the arm at the scapula a viola large bis/tris........Just a little humer (pardon the pun) for Big Green.....

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## talon

Yhea, big you were suppose to comment on this one.....lol

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## Dude-Man

I'll give you a LOL. 
nice description of the surgery.
 :ROFLOL:

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## tbulldog

BG,
Nice progress, Awesome Thread.... What were the results of the QV test? I'm anxious to know. 

TBull

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## BigGreen

> I heard they have a new plastic surgery procedure for this. It called shortenthehumerous. First, they take you arm off, by detaching it from the scapula at the glenoid cavity, seperating the acromion from the tubercle of the humerus. After this they will cut a chunk out of your humerous and shorted the biceps' muscle belly. Then they will reattach the arm at the scapula a viola large bis/tris........Just a little humer (pardon the pun) for Big Green.....


You bastard!! I was so eager to research this new phenomenon that I spent the last 36 hours scouring google and WebMD trying to find some info on it. My eagerness was such that I failed to see the last line betraying the whole thing as one cruel joke. To think, I went into four clinics asking if the physician either performed, or could recommend someone with a history of performing, shortenhumerousis.

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## talon

> You bastard!! I was so eager to research this new phenomenon that I spent the last 36 hours scouring google and WebMD trying to find some info on it. My eagerness was such that I failed to see the last line betraying the whole thing as one cruel joke. To think, I went into four clinics asking if the physician either performed, or could recommend someone with a history of performing, shortenhumerousis.


Laughing my ass of Big. That is the funniest thing Ive heard on this board man. Thanks bro, you brightened my da....bwaha ha ha.....I like your humer (lol) alot man, your a good guy......

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