# STEROIDS FORUM > ANABOLIC STEROIDS - QUESTIONS & ANSWERS > EDUCATIONAL THREADS >  Basics of cycling

## JohnnyB

If you are under 25, it is best for you to have an x-ray done to see if your growth plates are closed. If they are, you can start cycling. If their not please wait, you'll be glad you did.

Keep it simple, don't try and get all your goals out of one cycle. Start simple, use test first, I prefer test with one ester, enanthate or cypionate , I'm not a multi ester gear fan, but that's me. Start at 400-500mg a week for 10 weeks, make sure you have everything you need before starting the cycle. I like nolva for pct and to have on hand encase you get gyno. Some have a hard time during PCT with estrogen levels, they can make the biggest guy, be as emotional as a 13 year old on her period. Nolva will block the estrogen so this won't happen. You don't want to be 20lbs bigger and crying at a chick flic with your/a girl. Although it may get some of you in touch with your feminine side, which could help with the chics, but your noodle might not work, so that wouldn't be good 

Back to the post, when cycling if you're not gaining, don't think you need to up the dose. What you need to do is eat more food, you can do all the gear you want but if the calories aren't there to promote growth, more gear isn't going to do anything. Your diet is going to determine what your cycle is. If you're eating everything in sight it's going to be a bulker, if you're eating protein like a mad man, with moderate amounts of carbs and good fats, it's going to be a lean mass cycle. If you're limiting your carbs and doing lots of cardio, it's a cutter.

Here's why I like introducing one compound at a time into your body. First of all, you'll know how your body reacts to that compound, good or bad. If you use 2 compounds you've never used, if something starts going wrong you won't know what's causing it. Secondly, adding a new compound to your second cycle, is almost like doing a first cycle again. Here's why, remember I said almost. You are introducing a new compound to the mix, it's hitting the receptors different, so to speak, then the first compound. Which will add a different reaction from the cycle. Deca is more anabolic (edited do to a mistake on my part), EQ raises Red Blood Cell count, which all gear does but EQ more so.

Third cycle try a new compound with the test, if you use EQ on the second cycle, try deca on this one or the other way around depending on what you ran on the second cycle.

Fourth cycle, you can add an oral or try trenbolone , I wouldn't try trenbolone and an oral in the same cycle, unless you've run one of them before, but at this point, they should both be new to you.

Fifth cycle would be adding an oral or the trenbolone, depending on what you decided for your 4th. If you follow this plan, you can get some nice gains from all these, because of the introduction of a new drug to your body with each new cycle. Once you've went through this protocol, you can do the same cycle with higher doses or a combination of three compounds at the same dose used before.

With deca and EQ you might want to go 12 weeks, since they both have a longer ester on them, peak levels take up to 6-7 weeks to peak, run your enanthate or cypionate one week passed either one, if you use sustanon , it doesn't matter, because one of the esters clears at the same rate as EQ and Deca. Don't go over 400mg a week with either. When you hit the trenbolone, go 10 weeks with trenbolone enathate and 6-8 weeks if you go with trenbolone acetate with test propionate . 

I don't see the point of more then 3 compounds. I've done 7-8 cycle and this is my first going over a gram of combined gear. It's test c/tren e/EQ, each at 200mg every 3 days, about 1400mg a week, I'll drop the tren e at week 13 and add masteron enanthate for 12 more, may switch to test e. Keeping the EQ/ Mast at around the 400-450mg mark and upping the test to 750mg Back to the post.

Using HCG during a cycle, anything over 10 weeks or the use of any 19-nor. Needs to have HCG run with the cycle, 300-500iu every 3-5 days. Run it up to one week before you start PCT.

I keep saying PCT, what is that, Post Cycle Therapy , this is to restore your natural test levels. The reason for running HCG during a cycle. Is to keep your nuts from shrinking, this gives your body one less thing to recover from, so PCT can get to the work of restoring the HPTA.

I don't like standardized PCT's, what I mean is, 3 weeks of clomid at certain doses or 4 weeks of nolva at certain doses. I believe all PCT should be run until your sex drive is back and in full swing. I also believe they should have some dose of nolva in them. Because nolva blocks estrogen, clomid lacks in this area. You don't want unchecked estrogen during PCT. Whatever PCT you run, keep running nolva until that sex drive is back. You need to research PCT and go with what you think will work for you, just remember to run that ending dose with nolva, until that wood is working.

I hope I covered it all, I know I didn't but I tried 

I know I didn't mention LR3 IGF-1, slin or HGH. The HGH would be more age dependent, slin I'd wait until after the 5th cycle and LR3 IGF-1, would be more on individual basis, but would be great during PCT. Once you hit the slin, LR3 IGF-1 and slin can be a great bridge between cycles. You can do 4 weeks of LR3 IGF-1, then 4 weeks of slin, repeat those 2 again and you have 16 weeks between cycles, you can use them in the order you like.

LR3 IGF-1, can be used alone or with PCT, for the first time I wouldn't do it on your first run at PCT. 40mcg is a good first time dose, post w/o, make sure you eat lots of protein. LR3 has an effect like slin on shuttling nutrients into the muscle cells, but to a lesser degree. So a carb/protein drink post w/o is a good idea. I drink another protein shake one hour after, then eat a small meal one hour after that. If you lower your carbs you'll get some fat loss, after those 2 drink and a meal. If you're bulking you can keep the carbs, with the half-life being around 6 hours you'll get that insulin -like effect for that time. I've used avandia with LR3, it give you more of an insulin effect, so make sure you get those carbs in, becacuse you will go hypo.

I think this covers it now 

JohnnyB

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## puremusc00

Great post Johnny!

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## crazydick

Huge Bump for this post Johnny, I am obviously a new guy, and this helps bring it all together. So that, I can better understand the rest of the forum.

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## BuildaBeast

Thanks JohnnyB posts like this can make things more clear for the newb's

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## JohnnyB

Glad it helps, just trying to make a basic guide line for new Bros

JohnnyB

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## 305GUY

I recommend locking this thread and making it a sticky.

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## JohnnyB

> I recommend locking this thread and making it a sticky.


I know what you're saying but for now I'll leave it the way it is. For those that want to cause drama can go to the original post to do so. I'll delete the drama here, but they have open rein on the other thread. If it starts here I'll lock it and refer them to the other thread.

I don't like deleted what people think, by letting them talk it let the members see what type of person they are. But it will be done here since there's already a dramam thread on this  :Wink/Grin:  

JohnnyB

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## boarderbum

Hey man great post. i know that I'm new to the forum but I have cycles underneathe my belt,but it does make things a lot more clear for those who are unsure. keep this bumped!

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## JohnnyB

> Hey man great post. i know that I'm new to the forum but I have cycles underneathe my belt,but it does make things a lot more clear for those who are unsure. keep this bumped!


Welcome aboard Bro

JohnnyB

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## bignbald02

Awsome post man, clears a lot of questions up for me thats for sure. I was wondering how to go about bridging cycles and other things you can do during pct. thx bro

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## JohnnyB

> Awsome post man, clears a lot of questions up for me thats for sure. I was wondering how to go about bridging cycles and other things you can do during pct. thx bro


No prob Bro

JohnnyB

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## goalseeker

awesome Johnny.. thanks.....helps me out with planning for the next few cycles, and confirms some of my long time researching!!!

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## 1819

dear dr. moron. please stop spamming this board.

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## JohnnyB

Damn I got beat, on the banning

JohnnyB

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## 1819

> Damn I got beat, on the banning
> 
> JohnnyB


was that guy a classic or what?

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## JohnnyB

> was that guy a classic or what?


  :LOL:  I'd say

JohnnyB

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## goalseeker

you guys lost me here... whos dr moron?

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## patrickforprez

how do you convert mg into c's

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## KaevurMati

> If you are under 25, it is best for you to have an x-ray done to see if your growth plates are closed. If they are, you can start cycling. If their not please wait, you'll be glad you did.


Why is it important to have the growth plates closed?

Does it have any effect in results or something?

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## JohnnyB

> you guys lost me here... whos dr moron?


He tried to spam for customers, so his post was deleted and he was ban from AR

JohnnyB

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## JohnnyB

> Why is it important to have the growth plates closed?
> 
> Does it have any effect in results or something?


Growth plates close and your hormonal system is fully developed around the same time. If you start a cycle and estrogen becomes elevated it can close your growth plates. Using gear will shut down your hormonal system, you don't want to be playing with your hormonal system before it's fully developed. Shutting it down before it's reached maturation can cause hormonal problems in the future, with sexual problems being one of them.

I know some think being on HRT for the rest of your life would be cool, but believe me it's gets old.

JohnnyB

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## magic32

Great post, just wanted to subscribe to it.

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## gr8gear

great post man.......From what I understand, in your opinion it is best to go with a test only cycle for as a first cycle. I've been reading many of the threads, and a lot of the beginner cycles include another chemi (most being decca or EQ)....Did you find it worked best when just one substance was used?.....thanks

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## shadow maker

Hey awesome post man... So your telling me I should have started with injectables instead of d-bol, and what do you guys think about M1T?

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## itsdarock

bump

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## Property of Steroid.com

> If you are under 25, it is best for you to have an x-ray to see if your growth plates are closed.
> 
> 
> 
> JohnnyB


No. You certainly aren't still growing at 25, and your growth plates certainly have sealed for good, unless you are suffering from some form of Gigantism or whatrever...generally, growth stops at the end of your teenage years, at the latest (1)...there is almost no chance to keep growing ( or even developing any aspect of your HPTA, if thats a concern) this late in life. Nineteen is basically the end of the road...conservatively, 20 years old, at the latest. This is whats actually happening:

Lengthening of a bone occurs at the epiphyseal growth plates (called the "growth plates in common parlance) , the remnant of the cartilage model. It's capable of proliferating. In 99.9% of humans, the process of bone elongation ends at around the mid to late teen years. At this point, the growth plates are obliterated and disappear, after which no more elongation (typified by an increase in limb length, height, etc..) can take place. Elongation of the bone occurs here and at a second epiphysis at the end. The proliferation of the cartilage happens very quickly, actually fast enough to keep ahead of the bone generation that's "chasing" it , called ossification, which is just the replacement of cartilige by bone. As long as the cartilige growth "stays ahead" of the bone, you grow taller, as bone replaces cartilige. When the bone finally catches the cartilige (because the cartilige slows it's growth rate, not the bone), it ossifies, and "seals" the growth plate. 
Here's a growth plate pic, enhanced by radioactive dye (GP= Growth Plate), so you can sort of see the bone "catching" up witht he cartelige.



*Reference:*

1. Human Anatomy and Physiology, 6th Edition, John W. Hole jr., Wm. C. Brown Publishers.

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## auto239306

from a newbie: Great post, I learned a lot. Thanks.

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## brolicscholar

> With deca and EQ you might want to go 12 weeks, since they both have a longer ester on them, peak levels take up to 6-7 weeks to peak, run your enanthate or cypionate one week passed either one, if you use sustanon , it doesn't matter, because one of the esters clears at the same rate as EQ and Deca. Don't go over 400mg a week with either. When you hit the trenbolone , go 10 weeks with trenbolone enathate and 6-8 weeks if you go with trenbolone acetate with test propionate . 
> 
> 
> JohnnyB


Johnny, how much time is sufficient before introducing the second compound of the planned cycle? 1week, 2 weeks? Also by going over 400 mgs w/ deca or and test will I saturate my receptors? I'm starting my 3rd cycle which will consist of Test and Deca. Deca is 300mgs/cc was planning on 2cc's of Deca and Test/week.

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## jef

Man: sounds like there is a lot of science and knowledge to this stuff...Okay...I'm getting a few pieces of advice from a couple acquintances...I've been lifting weights for 9 years or so. I weigh 205 @10% body fat....I would like to get to 215 to 220 @ 6-7%. I would be a newbie with AS and the following was recommended...

1.) Clen , equipoise and deca -durabolin 
2.) Sustanon , Deca, EQ no Clen
3.) this post starting only using Test
4. ) from another post from Hooker...primoteston + Eq.

Can you tell me if the recommendations sound good? How about the amount of each?

Thanks in advance for your time....

JC

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## brolicscholar

jeff, there is alot to learn and this board is one of the best places to get educated. I would recommend starting w/ just a test cycle. That was my first and although the doses were low I saw good gains and kept a good amount.

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## jef

Would that be like sustanon for a good first test cycle?

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## muskel

would Test E be a good first cycle? it is after all a very powerful ester. Maby too powerful for a first time user. Would'nt something milder do just fine?

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## Myka

> No. You certainly aren't still growing at 25, and your growth plates certainly have sealed for good, unless you are suffering from some form of Gigantism or whatrever...generally, growth stops at the end of your teenage years, at the latest (1)...there is almost no chance to keep growing ( or even developing any aspect of your HPTA, if thats a concern) this late in life. Nineteen is basically the end of the road...conservatively, 20 years old, at the latest. This is whats actually happening:
> 
> Lengthening of a bone occurs at the epiphyseal growth plates (called the "growth plates in common parlance) , the remnant of the cartilage model. It's capable of proliferating. In 99.9% of humans, the process of bone elongation ends at around the mid to late teen years. At this point, the growth plates are obliterated and disappear, after which no more elongation (typified by an increase in limb length, height, etc..) can take place. Elongation of the bone occurs here and at a second epiphysis at the end. The proliferation of the cartilage happens very quickly, actually fast enough to keep ahead of the bone generation that's "chasing" it , called ossification, which is just the replacement of cartilige by bone. As long as the cartilige growth "stays ahead" of the bone, you grow taller, as bone replaces cartilige. When the bone finally catches the cartilige (because the cartilige slows it's growth rate, not the bone), it ossifies, and "seals" the growth plate. 
> Here's a growth plate pic, enhanced by radioactive dye (GP= Growth Plate), so you can sort of see the bone "catching" up witht he cartelige.
> 
> 
> 
> *Reference:*
> 
> 1. Human Anatomy and Physiology, 6th Edition, John W. Hole jr., Wm. C. Brown Publishers.


Are you saying that it would be okay to start cycling at 19 or 20 then?

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## Property of Steroid.com

Yes.

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## Myka

But what about all that natural test stuff? I thought you were supposed to reach your natural potential first.

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## thedeluxxxoverlord

i'm not a big fan of cycling....
it's a lot easier to to all the work outs in just one really long try....
 :0piss:  on conventional wisdom

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## fijiman09

bump

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## Streaker

Good use of the search key figi. This should be a sticky.

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## fijiman09

Thanks, this post help a lot!

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## cake44

My first cycle was deca 300 QV one cc a week and Eq QV one cc a week and oral winstrol , i was 40 years old and had trained hard on and off (mostly on) all my life. It work really good for me i gained 15 lbs. or so and kept most of it. That was 2 years ago and i've done several cycles since then, 2 years ago my normal weight was 250 at 6'2" now my weight is at around 285-290..i went up to 300 on this last cycle of anadrol , teste e and trenbolone i didn't like all the extra water but man i was strong and no little pains that come with age. I have been enjoying reading all this info...thanks to you guys for the valuable service.

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## crazyhorse666

Thank you very much. Your info will help me very much.

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## bzb

This is a great thread, helps newbs like me learn alot...

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## sircharles

great read. kudos.

- SC

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## 305GUY

damn havent seen johnnyB post in a long time....

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## JohnnyB

> damn havent seen johnnyB post in a long time....


It's been a while but I'm still around

JohnnyB

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## Bruce000

Hi Johnny thanks for all the info. Ive been working out for about 3 years more on than off. I got frustrated with my gains. And gave it a break for about 6 months. how long do you think I should give my self before I start the gear? Im 62 about 108 kg. I do have some gear lined up so I can start at any time.

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## much2evil

A lot of good info in this one, thanks.

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## BGIZZLE8629

Can somoeone give me some advice. Im thinking about going with TEST CYP. and Equipoise for my very first cycle. Somewhere between 250 and 400mg/week of each. Would this be a good first cycle or should I start out with just TEST. I plan on taking Nolva and Proviron during the cycle and Clomid and possibly Nolvadex or Letro for my PCT. Any suggestions would be great. 

BGIZZLE

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## Tuna11

hey. I have tried winny and primo a couple times by themselves and noticed I never kept any gains. Now looking at starting a new cycle of test by itself. Just wondering if I should stack it with anything or go solo since introducing new product to the system. By the way great post man.

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## BGIZZLE8629

Alright sweet. Thanks.

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## Growingpains

Great post

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## finny

What is the consensus on waiting between cycles? One cycle, on average, takes about 12 weeks including PCT.

Do people do 3 months on, 3 months off, or something similar?

Thanks.

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## dhriscerr

I like nolva for pct and to have on hand encase you get gyno. Some have a hard time during PCT with estrogen levels, they can make the biggest guy, be as emotional as a 13 year old on her period. Nolva will block the estrogen so this won't happen. You don't want to be 20lbs bigger and crying at a chick flic with your/a girl. Although it may get some of you in touch with your feminine side, which could help with the chics, but your noodle might not 
work, so that wouldn't be good


So Nolva is all you need for both during cycle if you get gyno and all you need for PCT? Or should clomid be used in conjunction with Nolva, Also just use HCG during cycle up until 1 week before PCT, alot of people like it in there PCT? So much to learn!!!!!!

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## louden swain

I recently started my second cycle ever and tried stacking tren & test. Immediately my stones shrank up. Should I stop everything and go right to HCG to get them back or what? I'd rather have my balls than more muscles.

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## krusher

very clear post thanx for the insight

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## new_to_juicing_88

great post very helpgul thank you bump

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## MRGQ10477

U guys i have a questions about cycle what is a cycle i am sry am a slow learner am i am new to this and so far i studyied about dbol steriods

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## pump.joe

I know this is an old thread, but damn Johnny -- you rock bro!

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## amritbharaj

great post..thank for the info..this wil help me alot for the future as i am jus about to strt tkin gear..
abz.

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## LuigiBellucci

thanks I needed it this informations...

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## Test-Prop604

Very good information

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## cymruymbyth

excellent info! Personally i've decided to put off a test cycle untill i'm well educated about aas.This thread puts me that bit closer to my 1st cycle.thanks

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## Dicknang

Thank you so much mate, this is exactly the information I've been looking for!

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## shadyaces

How long should be taken off inbetween cycles??

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## 200byjune

3 months

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## Kale

> 3 months


IMO its length of cycle + PCT Time = time off

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## takincareofbusiness

What happend to Johnny B?

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## gtbees05

I am a newbie and am in week 9 of my first cycle ever, 400mg of Test Prop per week. Have had good results. Current stats are 5'9", 175 lbs., and 12% BF. 

Two questions:

1. Is PCT required after this first cycle? If so, what should I take and for how long?

2. For my second cycle I am considering Test C or Test E at 400mgs/week and Dianabol at 30-40mgs/day.

Can someone help me with these two questions?

Thanks.

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## Big

> I am a newbie and am in week 9 of my first cycle ever, 400mg of Test Prop per week. Have had good results. Current stats are 5'9", 175 lbs., and 12% BF. 
> 
> Two questions:
> 
> 1. Is PCT required after this first cycle? If so, what should I take and for how long?
> 
> 2. For my second cycle I am considering Test C or Test E at 400mgs/week and Dianabol at 30-40mgs/day.
> 
> Can someone help me with these two questions?
> ...


yes, of course pct is required.
first, read the educational threads at the top of the pct and steroid sections.
after reading and understanding them, start your own thread in the appropriate section asking any questions that remain.

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## crabmasta

im in the same boat, started my first doe of test E three days ago i'll do 300mg every four days, im wondering what i should do after this bottle maybe another test E stacked with somthing else. should i be taking a anti estrogen. what if i can only get over the counter shit for my PCT

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## matcules

Great post thanks for the usefull info

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## Focusmen

where is johnny b?

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## sheckeyshabazz

awesome post bro, i really liked how you lined up the progression of cycles. very helpful and educational for a newb like myself

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## B-HALL

thank you very much for the very detailed info regarding your thoughts on how a first cycle should be run, and all the cycles following. Also the info on PCT was extremely informative.

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## shennen

this is my favorite thread on the site, only one on the favorites bar. Great great read.

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## GreenCoast

hey Johnny, Im on my second cycle right now, first was test en only for 10 weeks, now im doing test en and deca , im just past week 1 and my nip's are feeling alittle sensitive.. ive got Nolva on hand, should i work some of that in while on cycle? and how much per day? thanks for the Thread btw.

GREENCOAST

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