# FITNESS and NUTRITION FORUM > SUPPLEMENTS >  Austinite's Amino Acids, Vitamins, Minerals, Herbs and more.

## austinite

*THIS THREAD IS NO LONGER SUPPORTED.* 

Thanks for all contributors and members that helped grow this thread. After over a year of support, I feel that all questions have been answered in great detail. If you read through the entire thread, you'll notice that the last 10 pages or so are repetitive. Same questions, same answers. There's only so many ways I can answer the same questions. 

I hope you make great use out of the info in this thread and keep in mind, your questions are more than likely to be already answered in this thread. If you need my assistance, please start a new thread and get my attention, I will do my best to respond in a timely fashion. 

Have a powerful day. 

~ _Austinite_


So let's get started with amino acids:

You've heard it before. Amino Acids are the "Building Block" of protein. There are 2 types of amino acids. Essential, and nonessential. Essential means that we need to include these in our diets because they *can't* be produced via metabolism. Nonessential refers to amino acids that *can* be produced from your diet. I supplement both and we'll discuss only the ones I use/prefer below since those are the ones I've experienced. 


*AMINO ACIDS* *(essential)**:*

*L-Arginine:*
This is the one that you've probably heard of most. It's the amino acid found in tons of pre-workouts and widely marketed. L-Arginine is most certainly one of my favorites. This amino acid is one of your immune systems best friends, as it regulates the activity of your Thymus gland (which makes T cells that are used by your immune system).

Arginine will also increase your blood vessel circumference and therefore influencing muscle synthesis. Even at non-ideal body fat, you may notice increased vascularity in your leaner body parts. How about an increase in growth hormone ? Thanks to member anabolicdoc for pointing us to the study:




> Recent studies have shown that resting growth hormone responses increase with oral ingestion of L-arginine and the dose range is 5-9 g of arginine. Within this range there is a dose-dependent increase and higher doses are not well tolerated. Most studies using oral arginine have shown that arginine alone increases the resting growth hormone levels at least 100%, while exercise can increase growth hormone levels by 300-500%. The combination of oral arginine plus exercise attenuates the growth hormone response, however, and only increases growth hormone levels by around 200% compared to resting levels.


*L-Lysine:*
While Lysine can be found in common foods such as eggs, cheese, fish, milk, red meat and potatoes, it's important for us to supplement because of our strict diets and lifestyles. Without enough Lysine, you could experience issues like concentration problems, irritability, lack of energy, poor appetite and a host of other concerns. Lysine will aid in muscle tissue development and can even help speed up recovery from minor injury. Lysine is a must pre workout for me. It's quite underrated and far more effective than some other widely marketed Amino's. Remember, marketing companies milk the heck out of anything that creates a "Buzz" for many years, and once people become accustomed to the name, they keep pushing it because it's all people recognize. 

*L-Methionine:*
Detoxify! Methionine will rid your body of heavy metals and increases muscle strength. Sounds great, right? But wait! There's more! If you buy in the next ten minutes I'll throw in a fat break-down compound! That's right, Methionine will help break down fat, crucial for build up that might hinder flow to your brain, heart and kidneys. For those of you who fear L-Carnitine due to a recent article linking it to heart disease by conversion to TMAO, this might be a good alternative. 

*L-Tryptophan:*
This one is required in order to produce vitamin B3. In a bad mood? This one is for you. You've heard of serotonin, right? That's what you'll get from supplementing Tryptophan as it produces serotonin. This is great for the betterment of your mood and even sleep. So, depression... Check! Insomnia... Check!

A few more benefits that are noteworthy: Tryptophan promotes the release of growth hormone, helps with headaches and your heart will love you for it.

_Warning: I've experienced extremely vivid nightmares when consuming high doses of Tryptophan prior to bed-time. Reducing the dose before bed aided in sleep and virtually eliminated nightmares. 



_*AMINO ACIDS* *(nonessential)**:*_

_*L-Citrulline:*
Step aside, Arginine, I think I may have found a new best friend! 

Citrulline actually converts to Arginine, but it's absorbed better in high doses, where Arginine is not. This _does_ make it superior to Arginine, but certainly _not_ a replacement for it. They actually work well together. While shopping for your favorite amino acids, you will notice many manufacturers that produce a mix of Arginine and Citrulline. 
_
_This compound promotes energy. Who wouldn't want to supplement with it?? I'm guessing only those not aware of it! Furthermore, ammonia damages your cells, and Citrulline is your detox. Lastly, if you're looking for a great pump at the gym, this is a must in your pre-workout.


*L-Carnitine:*
Here's an increasingly popular Amino Acid. Carnitine has been pitched as a fat burner by many supplement manufacturers. There's a good reason for that. 

The main reason this amino acid exists is to transport fatty acids through our system. These fatty acids are then burned for energy. Now, in order for Carnitine to do everything that it does, it needs to be powered by something. Some sort of fuel if you will. Well, Carnitine chooses fat as its energy source. This is why doses beyond RDA (required daily allowance) are very effective in a fat-loss diet. It's working, even when you're not working out. Please don't mistake this for being able to shed fat while sitting on the couch for days on end! 

Carnitine has been proven in legitimate studies to reduce the risk of heart disease. Mainly from conditions such as weak/improper fat metabolism, commonly found in diabetics and anyone with cardiovascular disorders. 

Our bodies produce Carnitine, but it can only be produced if the you have enough of ALL of the following: B1, iron, Lysine and Methionine. 

The fat burning capability of Carnitine is not picky, it burns whatever fat is available. This differentiates itself from Methionine (in the fat burning department) because Methionine targets areas. For example, within organs, such as the liver and other potentially problematic areas. 

L-Carnitine can be found or made in injectable form. This would be the most effective, but it's not necessary. "NOW" products lineup includes L-Carnitine in liquid form, which is highly absorbable and comes in 1000mg per dose, or 3000mg per dose. This is the one I use. 

*Worried about the latest Carnitine study that related it to heart disease? Don't worry. That study was a complete failure with too many flaws. Click here to find out more.* 


*L-Cysteine:*
When researching, you'll probably come across both Cystine and Cysteine. Notice the spelling. These 2 are pretty much identical, so either one will do. 

Cysteine, when taken with Vitamin E becomes strong in the destruction of free radicals. Good for your skin, liver and brain, too. Speaking of stacking vitamins, B6 would be an ideal stack as well if you're experiencing minor illness. 

I initially started using Cysteine when I developed symptoms of arthritis as it's known to be used to treat it. It's also used to treat the hardening of arteries. Amazing so far, huh? You can add to that list the breakdown of mucus, so if you experience any respiratory issues, consider Cysteine daily. 

For muscle, it's crucial during recovery. There isn't a time of day that you wouldn't benefit from cysteine. Take it 3 times daily. Your body will love you for it. 

_Warning: Diabetics should not be using L-Cysteine as it may render inactive insulin .
_

*L-Theanine:*
Hey! Have no fear! L-theanine is here! Feeling anxious, nervous or a bit lethargic maybe? This one is for you. This non-protein amino acid can relax you, relieve some stress, increase your alertness and improve your memory. While I don't really experience anxiety, I started taking this amino acid to relieve stress and see the effects on alertness for me. 

This is found in tea. And studies have shown that regular tea drinkers have a higher sense of alertness and are more relaxed than non-tea drinkers. One of several reasons you've heard me recommend tea in the nutrition forums. My experience with L-Theanine has been great. 

I'm not going to say that this increased alertness drastically. It did however make a difference. My main concern was relaxation and it certainly works in that department. I use both an oral and transdermal. High doses are thought to bring on headaches, however this was not my experience. As a matter of fact I wasn't able to acheive notable success without high doses. No ill effects whatsoever from an average of 100mg for every hour I'm awake. I recommend you spread this out as much as possible. This is the only amino acid I carry with me at all times. It's in my house, in my car and at the office.


*L-Tyrosine:*
I've seen it. Read a little about it, but mostly ignored it in the past. I finally decided to dive into heavy research on this one very recently. Although a nonessential amino acid, it most certainly became essential for me. (ha, funny me). 

Like Theanine, Tyrosine also has mood-regulating properties. Depression can be associated with it's deficiency. This is not one you want to use while bulking, as it can suppress your appetite. If your mood is noticeably enhanced with Tyrosine and you do not want to come off of it, be sure to couple it with a high dose of B12 while bulking. The appetite suppression is not dramatic, but it can aid for those who are below TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure) and are most likely hungry!

Melanin!! Tyrosine will promote melanin production. Benefits? Proper function of your thyroid gland. Adrenal and pituitary glands, too. So those with hyperthyroidism will certainly benefit. So supplement and eat more avocados and bananas!

_Warning: Do not supplement if you are on anti-depressants. 


_*VITAMINS* *(B, C, D, E)**:
**
Vitamin B12:*
Every member here has probably heard of body builders using B12 as part of their cycle protocols. Even off cycle, it's still being used. The popular delivery method is intramuscular or subcutaneous injections. Another way is using orals or sublinguals. Now, you've probably heard that 1000mcg of oral B12 does not equal 1000mcg injected. This is true, as you won't be utilizing most of the B12 orally. However, while this may be the case for the majority, there are some folks that can absorb orals just fine and have blood work to show for it. 

I've experienced both. On cycle, I inject 1000mcg daily. And off cycle I do 1000mcg once a week. The on cycle protocol is not what I recommend for everyone. I am just making you aware of what I do. On or off cycle, 1000mcg weekly will do a great job for you. This was the only method I was able to get my B12 levels up. Orals failed miserably in the past, but please continue reading...

Recently, Vettester mentioned the benefits of Methyl B12 vs the usual Cyan. This was intriguing to me. So a little bit of research and a point in the right direction from kelkel, I purchased Methyl B12 5000 mcg by Jarrow. I discontinued B12 injections for 2 weeks prior to my sublingual experiment. I took one sublingual pill every morning. This takes a VERY long time to dissolve due to it's high concentration. I was feeling better by day 2. But on day 3 is when I noticed something I haven't experienced as much with cyan. Appetite! Cyan always worked in that department, but Methyl made me unbelievably hungry at ALL times. I could eat a full meal, and no later than 20 minutes I am starving again. Because I could not risk gaining more at my current state, I had to discontinue usage. Overall, Methyl is strong, effective and did give me energy and a good overall well being. No bloodwork, just notable effects. 

Conclusion: I will continue injections. But when bulking, I will go with Jarrow Methyl B12 5000. I have yet to experience injectable methylcobalamin. 

*WHAT YOU GET FROM B12: 

*1. Increased Energy.
2. Regenerates Red Blood Cells.
3. Healthy Bone Marrow.
4. Healthy Nervous System.
5. Helps Prevent Anemia.
6. Proper cell function.
7. Necessary for macro-nutrient metabolism (carbs, fats, proteins).
8. Enhances alertness and memory. 

Sold yet? Supplement with B12. Always. 


*Vitamin C:*
Most reviews and articles will tell you that 500mg is plenty. I'm telling you that 2 to 3 grams daily is better. 

Like B12, vitamin C is also used by our bodies to form red blood cells. It's a good preventative measure for blood clots and protects us from free radicals that could cause serious damage (most important, brain and spinal cord). It helps recovery when your body is under stress, which is why it's important to use post-workout. This is great when stacked with L-Cysteine for an ideal post-workout. Vitamin C also aids in forming adrenaline. 

Take it in the morning, at lunch, pre workout, post workout... take it all day. There's more to Vitamin C, but if the above doesn't convince you, I don't know what will. 

*Vitamin D:*
Vitamin D is commonly supplemented as D3. Or D2, the common super-high iu prescription Drisdol. 

Put your multi-vitamins aside, they're never enough. D3 should be supplemented at a minimum of 2000iu daily. Most doctors do not understand the importance of Vitamin D. While I was in range (the lower range), I was told that I do not need to supplement. I said I wanted to be in the upper range, or at least half way there, and was told I was being silly. No one needs that. My current endo, who I wouldn't trade for the world today, thinks otherwise. She understands that D is a bone builder, essential for nervous system stability, enhances the absorption of calcium and regulates mineral metabolism. 

To quote a great friend of mine, Kelkel: 


> It is literally in every cell in your body. To me that goes to show how important it really is. Further, it's more a hormone than a vitamin as well.


 - Got it?

As mentioned before, some bodies utilize it more efficiently than others. My body seems to be extremely weak in that department. My recent bloodwork, while using Drisdol, resulted in incredibly weak results. I've increased my dose from 5,000iu daily, to 10,000iu daily and 2 days a week, I use drisdol at 50,000 iu's. Always _with_ food. I'm excited to see my next panel results. 

*Vitamin E:*
I call this the "Cover Me" vitamin. You know, in a shoot-out, your buddy "covers" you so that you can get across the field without getting shot? This is what Vitamin E does. I'll explain...

First thing, when purchasing Vitamin E, you should purchase Vitamin E Tocopherol (Gamma, Delta, Beta, Alpha). 

All of us fitness and nutrition freaks are supplementing with fish oils. We need those Omega's! Well I've got news for you. You're not getting much out of those omegas if you're not taking them with Vitamin E. It protects the EFA's (essential fatty acids), and now... you're really benefiting. Also, L-Cysteine becomes L-Cysteine-on-steroids in the fight against free radicals when coupled with E. 

More Benefits of Vitamin E:

1. Increases Fertility (male & female).
2. Can assist in restoration of male potency.
3. Protects Red Blood Cells.
4. Aids with Endurance by Supplying Oxygen.
5. Protects lungs from pollution.


*MINERALS (Copper, Magnesium, Zinc)**:
**
Copper:*
Here's a considerably underrated mineral. Copper is very important to my supplementation regimen. Well, it is now at least. I've started using copper about a month ago and for good reason. This mineral goes hand in hand with Zinc and Vitamin C. Your copper levels drop when Zinc and Vitamin C are utilized by the body. This is where copper comes in handy. Why is it important to keep your copper levels at their optimal levels? Let's take a look at some benefits:

1. Provides Energy.
2. Enhances Sense of Taste.
3. Enhances skin color.
4. Promotes Bone Formation.
5. Creates Red Blood Cells. 
6. Essential for Collagen Formation.

Also, Hyperlipidemia, or "high *blood* fat" could be the result of copper deficiency. I run this mineral at 2 mg daily. Always with Zinc.


*Magnesium:*
I introduced magnesium to my daily intake several years ago and I'm very happy I did. 

PH (Potential Hydrogen) Balance. pH is a measure of how much acid is in the fluids in your body. This balance gives an indication of your general health. Without good balance, quality of life suffers. Longevity clinics can tell you that poor pH could shorten a life-span. Magnesium enhances your pH balance. That is a good enough reason for me, but there's more...

1. Lowers the Chance of Kidney Stones. (ouch!)
2. Can Aid in Lowering Cholesterol.
3. Sleep Aid. 
4. Muscle Relaxer. 

Good couple: Magnesium & B6. 
*
Zinc:*
As mentioned above, Zinc goes well with Copper. You can find a Zinc/Copper mix for easier intake.

There's a reason why you'll find Zinc in OTC flu fighting medicines. It's effective! Quite powerful, actually. Between Zinc and Cialis, prostate gland function will be at it's optimum. Like Copper, it's essential for collagen formation and protein synthesis. A great antioxidant, too. 

Here's a bonus for you acne prone folks... Zinc can regulate oil glands. Hence the use in acne treatments. 

Lastly, you have to be careful with your dosing. It's not uncommon to take a dose of 100mg daily. However, going over 100 daily could reduce the function of the immune system. I recommend a daily dose of 50mg. 
*

HERBS (Tea, Maca)**:
*
*Green Tea:*
Green Tea, or Diet green tea has been in my diet for ages. If I were to list the benefits, I could write a book. So let's keep it simple and look at reasons why I use it:

1. Lowers Total Cholesterol.
2. Increases HDL (good cholesterol)
3. Reduces LDL (bad cholesterol)
4. Enhances fat loss ability by boosting metabolism.

Good couple for fat loss: Green Tea & Caffeine. 

*Maca:*
I've been using Maca at 2400mg daily for 9 months now. 3 daily doses of 800mg each. Maca root is packed with vitamins, minerals and amino acids. There's your "Multi"! My endo recommended this for better hormone balance. Maca likes to go for the big guns. It stimulates the main glands, or "Master Glands" that regulate all the other glands. Because it enhances the Master Gland function, this results in a good balance in glands like the thyroid, adrenal, and testicular glands. 

I recommend a minimum of 1600mg daily. Any TRT patient should most certainly be supplementing with Maca.


*Austinite's daily supplement chart:
*


OMG! How long does it take you to take all of these? Less than a minute if I pre-loaded my bill dispenser. 2 minutes if I go through the bottles. Theres probably a couple that I missed.

Hope you find some of the info useful.

*SPECIAL REQUESTS FOR SUPPLEMENT REVIEWS
*
Below you will find some information on supplements that members requested in this thread. I will try to update this section as often as possible as requests come in. 

*L-Glutamine:*

Glutamine is one of many amino acids. This is referred to as the "Brain Fuel". While in the brain, it's converted to Glutamic Acid. This conversion triggers your "intellect". Remember above, when I spoke of pH balance? AKA the level of acidity in fluids of your body? Well here is where Glutamine comes in, as it betters your chances of decent levels of acid and alkaline. You can have this tested at home for as little as $3. Just buy a pH balance kit. It's basically stripped that change color when a stream of urine passes over them. The kits come with a color chart indicating your pH levels. If you're not in a good range, Glutamine will be a great addition. 

Another benefit to Glutamine is that it also acts as an "anti-toxin" by converting ammonia to a non-toxic substance. Ammonia can develop when other amino acids break down and release nitrogen. That's why it's important to include it with other amino's. Kind of like Fish oil and vitamin E, they go hand in hand. 

Because it's abundant in muscles, it helps to build and retain your lean mass. This is detrimental if you're on a cut. While it can be found in many foods, it's actually destroyed when food is cooked. So ignore glutamine value in cooked foods. This is another reason my diet is heavy with raw spinach. I eat spinach salad(s) daily, which is a good source for Glutamine. 

*What Glutamine been used for successfully in treatments and as a preventative measure:
*
1. Autoimmune Disease
2. Potential Muscle Atrophy
3. Arthritis
4. Fibrosis
5. Epilepsy
6. Fatigue
7. Schizophrenia
8. Intestinal Disorders

_WARNING: Do not supplement with Glutamine if you have:
_
~ Cirrhosis of the liver
~ Reye's Syndrome
~ Any issues with your Kidneys
~ High Blood Ammonia (The toxic cleansing properties of Glutamine on Ammonia are in the brain)


*Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10):*

CoQ10 is an antioxidant that acts quite similarly to Vitamin E. It does just as good of a job producing energy. CoQ10 is beneficial in many areas, from depression to preventing heart attacks. One of the main reasons that I use it myself (some of you have seen my blood work) is that it can reduce the damage done by your LDL levels (bad cholesterol). Oxidation and blood vessels = no good. 

Furthermore; an excellent stimulant for your immune system. Other areas of improvement include cardiovascular, aging and gum disease. While some articles will state that CoQ10 can lower blood pressure, I certainly would not count on it in that sense. 

Dosing will vary per individual. I stay with a low dose, but 100mg daily is just fine. 


*Horny Goat Weed (Epimedium):*

HGW is an aphrodisiac. Certainly not a replacement for Cialis or other erectile functionality drugs. Some studies have shown increase in testosterone levels when supplementing with HGW. However, there are other areas of benefits to HGW aside from a boost in libido. Let's have a look:

Involuntary urine leakage (incontinence): Some Chinese studies show that HGW improved growth in the sphincter muscles, which gets control over incontinence. Also shown to help with diarrhea. 

Blood Pressure: HGW can lower your blood pressure. Not significantly, but certainly does help those with higher BP. 

HGW is also commonly used for infertility, lethargy, back pain, arthritis and to stimulate the production of male sex hormones. Also can tonify the liver.


*VASCULARITY*

I don't know about you, but I certainly love the vascular look. The more the better! Some may not like it, but I think most of us regular gym goers crave the look. It's not just a look, it's motivating. Especially at the gym when you get that nice pump and your veins start popping out from everywhere. There are tons of positive things that happen in our bodies that lead to this. As a lifter and/or body builder, it's crucial to achieve the steps that lead to vascularity. 

Before we move forward with explanations and supplementation I need to make sure to get the main key out of the way. Diet. you've heard it a million times... "Abs are made in the kitchen", well that goes for vascularity as well What you consume and how much of it will eventually determine your body fat percentage. A lower body fat percentage will yield a higher level of vascularity I'm not saying you have to be "stage ready" at 4 to 6% body fat. But certainly not easily attainable when we're over 15%. Now again, that number is not set in stone. Everyone is different and genetics play a strong role here.

Nitric Oxide levels have a massive effect on our bodies with tons of benefits. But today we will discuss the ones that are related to this topic:

*Blood Flow/Circulation:*
Increasing your blood flow is the first key. Boosting your nitric oxide levels will achieve this by relaxing the blood vessels, leading to an increase in diameter. Blood flows better in bigger/wider veins.

*Muscle Cell Endurance:*
Endurance is not only related to your cardio abilities. Your muscles' endurance can be targeted by boosting your nitric oxide levels. This will allow you to lift heavy. But also helps with efficient recovery from strenuous lifting, inevitably leading to growth.

*Muscle Mass:*
This goes hand in hand with the 1st one mentioned, blood flow. Imagine your body is a plant that needs watering. If you water this plant with a tiny hose that has the diameter of a drinking straw, it will take forever to feed it. It's just not effective. But if you water the plant with a large diameter hose, you'll feed it quickly and efficiently. Same goes for your muscles. The larger the vessels that lead to your muscles, the more nutrients they will get. It's that simple. Open the flood gates.

*What can I supplement with to increase vascularity?*

Ok, so some of you probably jumped straight to this section. there are many supplements out there that will help. Strategically stacking some of these supplements will better your chances. Amino acids are a key player here, obviously. 
some of you may not be able to attain some of the prescription medications and/or afford the cost, so I will also give you an option that you can get at a fair price over the counter from your local pharmacy. 

*What can I take over the counter?
*
My main goal for my pre workout was to achieve a great pump, vascularity and muscle endurance. The key players have always been L-Arginine and L-Citrulline. After extensive research, I've come to a conclusion (for myself), that both are required here, but L-Citrulline needs to be dosed at a high ratio than L-Arginine. 

*PRE-WORKOUT:*
L-Citrulline Malate - 3 grams
L-Arginine (micronized) - 2 grams
L-Lysine - 2 grams
L-Methionine - 1 gram
Pycnogenol - 120 mg (this stuff is not cheap)

*POST WORKOUT:*
L-Cysteine - 1 to 2 grams
Vitamin C - 2 grams

*BEFORE BED*
L-Tyrosine - 1 gram
L-Glutamine - 1.5 grams
Magnesium Citrate - 400 mg

Note that the compounds mentioned are strategically chosen as they work in synergy. They all compliment each other and give you better results than taking them at random. Follow this protocol and give it time to build up, you will see results getting better and better over time. My personal protocol includes other drugs such as cialis, doxa, etc.. but I extracted those from the protocol above, which will still yield some outstanding results for you.

Good luck, stay vascular my friends.



*REJECTED & REMOVED FROM PROTOCOL
*
Below I will list items that I've removed from my protocol. Keep checking back as this list may grow...

*Pycnogenol - Click here for an explanation.
Resveratrol - Click here for an explanation.*

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## Alright john

Great post thanks for the info. You must rattle when you walk lol

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## kronik420

wow  :Smilie:

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## kronik420

what no whey?

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## MACKATTACK

This is what I take, would of any of these be consider non essential??

Taurine
L-Carnatine
Joint Support
Fish Oil
Daily Vitamin (GNC Mens Gold)
Chromium Picolinate
CLA
Glucosamine
Probiotic

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## cj111

No calcium/ vit K on the list, just curious why they didn't make the cut austin?

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## austinite

> Great post thanks for the info. You must rattle when you walk lol


I jingle, rather  :Smilie:  - I probably should calculate these into my TDEE, lol. 



> what no whey?


No way jose! - I dont do protein powders anymore. 



> This is what I take, would of any of these be consider non essential??
> 
> Taurine
> L-Carnatine
> Joint Support
> Fish Oil
> Daily Vitamin (GNC Mens Gold)
> Chromium Picolinate
> CLA
> ...


 :Smilie:  Well the essential and non, was in reference to Amino acids, so on your list, L-Carnitine would be nonessential. Same with L-Taurine.



> No calcium/ vit K on the list, just curious why they didn't make the cut austin?


I have plenty already. I was at 11 mg/dL with a max range of 10.3 in September of last year. I fixed that and as of March 26th recently my level is 9.9 (range 8.6-10.3). As for vitamin K, I don't think anyone should use it unless ordered by a doctor. I do everything I can to keep good blood-flow, Vitamin K can do the opposite of that. Blood clots caused by K is not uncommon.

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## Times Roman

I used to take everything under the sun. Now I'm learning to cut it back, and not so much anymore.....

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## austinite

> I used to take everything under the sun. Now I'm learning to cut it back, and not so much anymore.....


Yes. I've been up and down over the years. I think I'll eventually make a super compound containing all these in one pill ! Now wouldn't that be nice. Either that or an IV. ha!

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## thehor

Very educated Aistinite.

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## Times Roman

> Yes. I've been up and down over the years. I think I'll eventually make a super compound containing all these in one pill ! Now wouldn't that be nice. Either that or an IV. ha!


here's what I'm currently supping with:

multi
80mg aspirin
C
E
Calcium
fish oil
supp for prostate
resveratrol
creatine
MSM
NAC
psyllium husk fiber
protein powder
glutamine
cia
BP meds
a sleep aid - melatonin

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## austinite

> here's what I'm currently supping with:
> 
> multi
> 80mg aspirin
> C
> E
> Calcium
> fish oil
> supp for prostate
> ...


Great list TR. I recall your dose of Melatonin, was shocked. But I tried it and knocked me the F out. lol.

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## Times Roman

> Great list TR. I recall your dose of Melatonin, was shocked. But I tried it and knocked me the F out. lol.


melatonin is pretty mild to me. I may end up taking 5 or six a night. I lied. Melatonin is NOT an amino acid, but is still a naturally occuring compound in food.

Melatonin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## austinite

> melatonin is pretty mild to me. I may end up taking 5 or six a night. I lied. Melatonin is NOT an amino acid, but is still a naturally occuring compound in food.
> 
> Melatonin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


yeah, not an amino acid, but L-Tryp will get you there with a bonus on the way  :Wink: 

L-Tryptophan conversion once administered --> Serotonin --> Melatonin.

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## RipOwens

Great stuff Austinite, thanks!! Will take a few reads for me to digest all this...

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## Gaspaco

Thats a lot of pills buddy!  :Smilie:

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## Java Man

This is great. Thanks for posting it. Bookmarked.

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## austinite

> Great stuff Austinite, thanks!! Will take a few reads for me to digest all this...


Glad you enjoyed it.  :Smilie: 




> Thats a lot of pills buddy!


 Yup. A whole lot!




> This is great. Thanks for posting it. Bookmarked.


 Thanks, hope you find it useful.

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## jasc

Great write-up Aus! Very informative

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## BluPhin

what would i need to budget financially every month to take the regiment you outlined above?

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## austinite

> what would i need to budget financially every month to take the regiment you outlined above?


If you shop smart, $350 will get you a 90 day supply. So that's just over $100 a month.

For me, since I make a lot of these myself, cost me about half of that, or $60 a month.

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## BluPhin

$60 a month is reasonable for what you are getting. I know i cant budget $100 a month for supplements. My food bill is already quite high since i have been eating clean.

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## tigerspawn

Thanks for the thread Austinite. It is very informative. Do you buy in bulk?

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## austinite

> $60 a month is reasonable for what you are getting. I know i cant budget $100 a month for supplements. My food bill is already quite high since i have been eating clean.


Well you certainly dont need all that. I would sift through the post and see what works best for you.

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## basketballfan22

Goddamn austinite, I knew you took a lot of supplements; but holy shit. I always thought it was best to limit the amount of supplements you take? There is no way I could afford all of those sadly. You mentioned that you make most of these by yourself. May I ask how?

----------


## austinite

> Thanks for the thread Austinite. It is very informative. Do you buy in bulk?


Yes, I do both. But mostly powders for the Amino acids, horney goat weed, green tea extract and a few others.

----------


## BluPhin

> Well you certainly dont need all that. I would sift through the post and see what works best for you.


if you had to pick a top 5 supplements, what would they be? 
btw, thanks for the post, its very enlightening.

----------


## austinite

> Goddamn austinite, I knew you took a lot of supplements; but holy shit. I always thought it was best to limit the amount of supplements you take? There is no way I could afford all of those sadly. You mentioned that you make most of these by yourself. May I ask how?


Well I don't manufacture them so to speak. I buy them in powder form and cap them, In some cases I mix them together so I take less pills. Like I said, it's not for everyone and certainly not necessary to take all this, but that's what I do. Both my nutritionist and endo are loving it, they get a kick out of it.

Oh, and they're both hot broads  :Smilie:

----------


## austinite

> if you had to pick a top 5 supplements, what would they be? 
> btw, thanks for the post, its very enlightening.


that's impossible for me to answer. But I will entertain you..

Citrulline
Cialis
B12
DHEA
Pregnenolone

----------


## basketballfan22

I realize that you don't take protein powders anymore and taking individual compounds separately is better than a supplement that contains a lot combined; but if a protein powder contains some of the compounds you mentioned, would you just take smaller doses of those compounds? Forget about those compounds, and supplement with some of those you mentioned that aren't already included in a multivitamin or protein powder?

----------


## basketballfan22

> Well I don't manufacture them so to speak. I buy them in powder form and cap them, In some cases I mix them together so I take less pills. Like I said, it's not for everyone and certainly not necessary to take all this, but that's what I do. Both my nutritionist and endo are loving it, they get a kick out of it.
> 
> Oh, and they're both hot broads


Yeah, you have mentioned that they are attractive before. That is always a bonus, haha. Where do you buy your powders?

----------


## humbleman

Subscribed

----------


## austinite

> I realize that you don't take protein powders anymore and taking individual compounds separately is better than a supplement that contains a lot combined; but if a protein powder contains some of the compounds you mentioned, would you just take smaller doses of those compounds? Forget about those compounds, and supplement with some of those you mentioned that aren't already included in a multivitamin or protein powder?


Sorry I'm a little slow. I think I understand what you're asking...

I get protien from food. But I believe you're asking if a "shake" powder contains 500 mg of L-Arginine for example, would I take a smaller dose of L-Arginine tabs? Yeah, that would make sense.

----------


## basketballfan22

> Sorry I'm a little slow. I think I understand what you're asking...
> 
> I get protien from food. But I believe you're asking if a "shake" powder contains 500 mg of L-Arginine for example, would I take a smaller dose of L-Arginine tabs? Yeah, that would make sense.


Haha, I apologize. My question was poorly written and introduced, but you answered it. You didn't mention any information on DHEA and pregnenolone. What can you say about those?

----------


## cj111

L-Citrulline same as Citrulline malate?
Also, where can you order some of those bulk powders? I might have to consider capping some of my stuff, drinking it is getting sick.

----------


## austinite

> Haha, I apologize. My question was poorly written and introduced, but you answered it. You didn't mention any information on DHEA and pregnenolone. What can you say about those?


Good question, But I will leave that up to my friend gdevine, who did a great job in this thread:

http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...ould-know.html

----------


## austinite

> L-Citrulline same as Citrulline malate?
> Also, where can you order some of those bulk powders? I might have to consider capping some of my stuff, drinking it is getting sick.


they're the same, malate refers to the ester in "malic acid". Malate absorbs faster, supposedly better. 

I've purchased from several places. You can find a lot on amazon. Recently been buying from *beyond-a-century.com* as they have some awesome prices.

----------


## basketballfan22

> Good question, But I will leave that up to my friend gdevine, who did a great job in this thread:
> 
> http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...ould-know.html


Thanks for the link. Unless I am incredibly dense, it appears that DHEA and pregnenolone should only be used if one is on TRT or AAS; is this correct?

----------


## austinite

> Thanks for the link. Unless I am incredibly dense, it appears that DHEA and pregnenolone should only be used if one is on TRT or AAS; is this correct?


Dhea is fine. 25mg is plenty. Pregnenolone you can save for TRT. But I use both when cycling, too. So year round, on or off since i'm a TRT patient.

----------


## basketballfan22

Austinite, who the hell is that chick in your avatar? You change it everyday, but it is always the same woman.

----------


## austinite

> Austinite, who the hell is that chick in your avatar? You change it everyday, but it is always the same woman.


That's my mom, why?

----------


## basketballfan22

You're an idiot! Your mom is pretty hot too.  :Smilie:

----------


## austinite

> You're an idiot! Your mom is pretty hot too.


Well that wasn't very nice.

----------


## Rusty11

> You're an idiot!


Hopefully, joking?????

Anyway, WOW, that's an impressive/extensive list. Lots of things to look into. Interesting about the sublingual b12 and hunger relationship. I just started with 2000mcg/day. We'll see what happens.
Thanks for taking the time to put it out there.

----------


## austinite

> Hopefully, joking?????
> 
> Anyway, WOW, that's an impressive/extensive list. Lots of things to look into. Interesting about the sublingual b12 and hunger relationship. I just started with 2000mcg/day. We'll see what happens.
> Thanks for taking the time to put it out there.


Thanks Rusty. I've done sublinguals many times, they never did anything. Only Jarrow Methyl B12 5000 did this to me.

----------


## Rusty11

> I've done sublinguals many times, they never did anything. Only Jarrow Methyl B12 5000 did this to me.


Hmmm....nothing, as in nothing, nada, zip or nothing, as in no effect on appetite. I think I know the answer. Guess it's time to try the injectable methyl b12. I only bought a small bottle of the sublinguals.

----------


## austinite

> Hmmm....nothing, as in nothing, nada, zip or nothing, as in no effect on appetite. I think I know the answer. Guess it's time to try the injectable methyl b12. I only bought a small bottle of the sublinguals.


Zilch, nada, zip. A can of redbull would have been better. This methyl stuff is in a class of it's own.

----------


## Rusty11

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm taking methyl b12 sublinguals. So, I could see some benefits, as opposed to the more common form? Last question, I promise.  :Wink:

----------


## austinite

> Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm taking methyl b12 sublinguals. So, I could see some benefits, as opposed to the more common form? Last question, I promise.


Oh..... yes! heck yes! Good choice! You will certainly notice a difference compared to anything else. 

Ask away my friend, that's what this thread is for, education for everyone including myself  :Smilie:

----------


## basketballfan22

> Hopefully, joking?????
> 
> Anyway, WOW, that's an impressive/extensive list. Lots of things to look into. Interesting about the sublingual b12 and hunger relationship. I just started with 2000mcg/day. We'll see what happens.
> Thanks for taking the time to put it out there.


Yeah, that was definitely a joke. I should have preceded it by "Haha." This is why I try to contain my sarcasm and humor over the Internet because sometimes it is not clear. Austinite, I apologize if you took that seriously. I haven't established the reputation of Lunk1, so it's not immediately obvious if I am joking. Also if that woman happens to be your wife, girlfriend, or sister; then I am sorry about the "hot comment" too.

----------


## austinite

> Yeah, that was definitely a joke. I should have preceded it by "Haha." This is why I try to contain my sarcasm and humor over the Internet because sometimes it is not clear. Austinite, I apologize if you took that seriously. I haven't established the reputation of Lunk1, so it's not immediately obvious if I am joking. Also if that woman happens to be your wife, girlfriend, or sister; then I am sorry about the "hot comment" too.


Lol. No sweat man I was messing with ya about being my mom. 

Who is lunk1?

----------


## basketballfan22

> Lol. No sweat man I was messing with ya about being my mom. 
> 
> Who is lunk1?


Yeah, I knew you were joking; that's why I had put "You're an idiot" (typed with laughter). Lunk1 is Lunk, the member on this forum. He has been a member for a while, and he always types ridiculous comments that make me laugh. I know you know whom I am talking about.

----------


## austinite

> Yeah, I knew you were joking; that's why I had put "You're an idiot" (typed with laughter). Lunk1 is Lunk, the member on this forum. He has been a member for a while, and he always types ridiculous comments that make me laugh. I know you know whom I am talking about.


ha. Never heard of him. I could use a laugh, maybe I'll look for him.

----------


## basketballfan22

Austinite, I think you may be tired my man. He is one of your friends on this site. I think I have seen you post responses to some of his posts, but I am not sure about that.

----------


## marcus300

Great thread Austinite and very informative. If you could only take one which one would you go for and why?

----------


## austinite

> Great thread Austinite and very informative. If you could only take one which one would you go for and why?


Thank you Marcus!

I would have to choose Cialis. Because it helps to lower blood pressure, a great nitric oxide booster, good for the prostate and sexual health. This is one that I did not describe, however. 

But if my choice was only non-prescription drugs, I would choose L-Citrulline, because I get that + it converts to Arginine, so you get the benefits I mentioned from both. Great pump, excellent nitric Oxide boost, great for recovery and a decent detox. Love this amino.

----------


## austinite

> Great write-up Aus! Very informative


Thanks Mr. Jasc!

----------


## steroid.com 1

Great post Austin!

This should be considered for a Sticky here.

----------


## BluPhin

perhaps you have some insight into this: are the effects of cialis and viagra comparable in terms of lower blood pressure, a great nitric oxide booster, good for the prostate and sexual health?

----------


## kelkel

Nope. Not comparable. Cialis is actually approved for it.

FDA approves Cialis to treat benign prostatic hyperplasia

----------


## austinite

> Great post Austin!
> 
> This should be considered for a Sticky here.


Thank you, gd! And thanks for providing some awesome research subjects!




> perhaps you have some insight into this: are the effects of cialis and viagra comparable in terms of lower blood pressure, a great nitric oxide booster, good for the prostate and sexual health?


Nope. See below...



> Nope. Not comparable. Cialis is actually approved for it.
> 
> FDA approves Cialis to treat benign prostatic hyperplasia


Thanks  :Smilie:

----------


## kelkel

I know your busy researching something on examine.......

----------


## austinite

> I know your busy researching something on examine.......


lol, always. But I was allover today, here are my Carnitine thoughts:

http://forums.steroid.com/supplement...carnitine.html

----------


## steroid.com 1

> perhaps you have some insight into this: are the effects of cialis and viagra comparable in terms of lower blood pressure, a great nitric oxide booster, good for the prostate and sexual health?


Cialis has about a 16 hour half life versus 4 hours for Viagra...huge difference and why it's approved for daily use.

It's a great great drug for men and like Austin it is number one on my list.

Now add in a very low 1mg dose of Doxazosin and the results are amplified and even improves health benefits as well.

----------


## BluPhin

doxazosin amplifies all results or just sexual performance?

----------


## austinite

> doxazosin amplifies all results or just sexual performance?


Perhaps gd can fill in as he is more experienced with this drug. But Doxazosin is used to treat urinary complications. Like cialis, also lowers blood pressure and increases blood flow.

----------


## AXx

As always my man Austinite knocked it out of the park. No if only I could get all the people that came in the store to realize this then I would be a busier man. 

Austinite, if u ever make it to Bama, please come by and do a promo with me, I promise I will get DLB there and make it worth your while!!!!

 :Smilie: 
 :Smilie:

----------


## austinite

> As always my man Austinite knocked it out of the park. No if only I could get all the people that came in the store to realize this then I would be a busier man. 
> 
> Austinite, if u ever make it to Bama, please come by and do a promo with me, I promise I will get DLB there and make it worth your while!!!!


haha, good to see you here AXx! Thanks for the kind words! Send me pics of your store!

----------


## AXx

Yes sir will do!!! It's good to be back, maybe not like I was but back nonetheless  :Smilie:

----------


## cj111

Know much about AAKG?Arginine Alpha Ketoglutarate. Apparently its better, just wondering if you've used it ?

----------


## austinite

> Know much about AAKG?Arginine Alpha Ketoglutarate. Apparently its better, just wondering if you've used it ?


I have not used it. But I have yet to read anything that reveals any scientific evidence that deems it better. Some varying opinions out there, but that's the thing... they're just opinions. That said, I don't see anything wrong with AAKG.

----------


## BBJT200

Great post, austinite!

This is what I take:

Arginine, 5 grams 2x/day
Cialis, 10mg 2x/day
Taurine, 1g 2x/day
Creatine monohydrate, 5g/day in my PWO shake w\ dextrose for uptake
Optimum Nutrition multivitamin
Vitamin D 2000iu 2x/day
Fish oil, 1g 2x/day
Vitamin E 1x/day 400iu
~150mg aspirin E.D. - Until I get this thick blood shit sorted out, I'm taking this as a precaution.
Magnesium 250mg, 3x/day
Garlic, 400mg ed
t3 37.5mcg/day, 50-75mcg on cycle.
zinc, 50mg ED
vitamin C, 1000mg 3x/day

After reading this, I think I may start taking more magnesium at bedtime, as well as b-6. I have problems sleeping.

----------


## BBJT200

I have a question for you, though. I have noticed that with my use of Adderall for ADHD(60mg extended release ED - 20mg 3x/day), I'm starting to leak seminal fluid when I urinate, and I get 'up' when I have a bowel movement.
I'm assuming this is due to an enlarged prostate...or maybe just increased vasoconstriction from the stimulant? Is there anything I can supplement to help with this issue? It's obnoxious to finish peeing, walk away, and have to RUSH back into the bathroom.

----------


## Windex

Do you take all the aminos as capsule or powder form?

----------


## austinite

> Do you take all the aminos as capsule or powder form?


Capsule. I mix powders and cap them.

----------


## austinite

> I have a question for you, though. I have noticed that with my use of Adderall for ADHD(60mg extended release ED - 20mg 3x/day), I'm starting to leak seminal fluid when I urinate, and I get 'up' when I have a bowel movement.
> I'm assuming this is due to an enlarged prostate...or maybe just increased vasoconstriction from the stimulant? Is there anything I can supplement to help with this issue? It's obnoxious to finish peeing, walk away, and have to RUSH back into the bathroom.


I don't know. I'll see if I can research this a bit in the coming days.

----------


## austinite

> Great post, austinite!
> 
> This is what I take:
> 
> Arginine, 5 grams 2x/day
> Cialis, 10mg 2x/day
> Taurine, 1g 2x/day
> Creatine monohydrate, 5g/day in my PWO shake w\ dextrose for uptake
> Optimum Nutrition multivitamin
> ...


Looks good BBJT,

Your Optimum Nutrition Multivitamin is kind of a waste. Looking at the label, there isnt enough effective doses in there. This can be said about all multi's.

Be sure to take Vitamin E at the same time you take Fish Oil. If you can, switch to Vitamin E Tocopherol. 

Keep Magnesium for night time before bed. It's a muscle relaxer, you don't want it to counter any "energy" supplements you might take during the day. 500mg before bed is plenty. Switch to Citrate version for better absorption.

Include copper @ 2mg. When C and zinc are utilized, copper levels drop. 

Just some food for thought.

----------


## basketballfan22

> Looks good BBJT,
> 
> Your Optimum Nutrition Multivitamin is kind of a waste. Looking at the label, there isnt enough effective doses in there. This can be said about all multi's.
> 
> Be sure to take Vitamin E at the same time you take Fish Oil. If you can, switch to Vitamin E Tocopherol. 
> 
> Keep Magnesium for night time before bed. It's a muscle relaxer, you don't want it to counter any "energy" supplements you might take during the day. 500mg before bed is plenty. Switch to Citrate version for better absorption.
> 
> Include copper @ 2mg. When C and zinc are utilized, copper levels drop. 
> ...


God austinite, your knowledge is definitely enviable. I was afraid you were going to make a comment on Optimum Nutrition's multivitamin because that is the one I take.  :Frown: 

Should the doses that one takes be based off of his/her weight? I realize that some of your doses are based off of your blood reports; but if one hasn't had his/her blood levels tested, are these doses still okay?

Lastly, I just realized that you don't take fish oil. Is there a reason for this? I used to take the fish oil supplement made by Optimum Nutrition, but I realized almost all fish oil supplements contain very little eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). I know Lovaza and OmegaVia contain much higher concentrations of EPA and DHA, but currently I can't afford them. Also why should one take vitamin E with fish oil?

----------


## basketballfan22

I re-read your post austinite, and you clearly explained the reason people should take vitamin E with their fish oil. That's what I get for posting too hastily; I apologize.

----------


## austinite

> God austinite, your knowledge is definitely enviable. I was afraid you were going to make a comment on Optimum Nutrition's multivitamin because that is the one I take. 
> 
> Should the doses that one takes be based off of his/her weight? I realize that some of your doses are based off of your blood reports; but if one hasn't had his/her blood levels tested, are these doses still okay?
> 
> Lastly, I just realized that you don't take fish oil. Is there a reason for this? I used to take the fish oil supplement made by Optimum Nutrition, but I realized almost all fish oil supplements contain very little eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). I know Lovaza and OmegaVia contain much higher concentrations of EPA and DHA, but currently I can't afford them. Also why should one take vitamin E with fish oil?


I guess I missed fish oil on my list. But I certainly do take it. I use Life Extension Super Omega-3 EPA/DHA with Sesame Lignans & Olive Fruit Extract. A serving contains 700 EPA and 500 DHA. I take 2 servings daily, am and pm with Vitamin E Tocopherol. 

As for dosages based on body weight, this could be beneficial with some supplements. For example, an overweight person might benefit from a higher dose of fish oil. But this would be a tedious task really. Everyone is different and how well they take to these drugs really is trial and error unless bloodwork is present. The doses I've outlined could be used pretty much across the board. 

Lovaza is really good and contains Vitamin E. But yes, expensive.

----------


## Windex

What dose do you take Reserveratrol at ?

----------


## austinite

> What dose do you take Reserveratrol at ?


300 mg twice daily, already included in the fish oil gelcaps.

----------


## krugerr

Aust - you should buy all these in and assemble your own daily vitamin pack. I know I'd buy! After we discussed AnimalPack and VitaStack in that other thread, it got me thinking that someone should release a proper pack! 

Great overall thread, given me some ideas and tips. Thanks!

----------


## bringndaheat

Very informative! I've been reading You and GD's sup list. I received most in the mail today. I go to the TRT Dr next week along with bloodworm. I was going to wait on starting the proges and DHEA till after bloodwork?? Also do you think the Cia will affect bloodwork. I wanted to get a baseline read. I must say I am very pumped about giving most of these sups a run!

-Heat

----------


## austinite

> Very informative! I've been reading You and GD's sup list. I received most in the mail today. I go to the TRT Dr next week along with bloodworm. I was going to wait on starting the proges and DHEA till after bloodwork?? Also do you think the Cia will affect bloodwork. I wanted to get a baseline read. I must say I am very pumped about giving most of these sups a run!
> 
> -Heat


GD's stack is outstanding. I replicated it and developed almost immediate increase in vascularity.

Cialis is fine with blood work.

----------


## austinite

> Aust - you should buy all these in and assemble your own daily vitamin pack. I know I'd buy! After we discussed AnimalPack and VitaStack in that other thread, it got me thinking that someone should release a proper pack! 
> 
> Great overall thread, given me some ideas and tips. Thanks!


ha. Maybe one day. Thanks krugerr!

----------


## basketballfan22

After re-re-re-reading your post, I have a few more questions. Would you mind expanding on the supplements L-Glutamine, CoQ10, horny goat weed, Pycnogenol, and resveratrol? Also, I know you don't take protein powders; but do you take creatine? Last week I just started taking micronized creatine monohydrate, but I wanted your thoughts.

----------


## kelkel

Neat idea by Krugger! Call it a Vascularity stack!

@ bringdaheat: don't take cialis if your BP runs low.

----------


## basketballfan22

Also in regards to vitamin E, I found a powder that is Vitamin E, D-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate. You mentioned that it should be tocopherol (alpha, beta, delta, gamma), so should I not purchase this one? I should purchase a vitamin E supplement that has all the different types of tocopherols? If so, what is the ideal ratio?

----------


## krugerr

> Neat idea by Krugger! Call it a Vascularity stack!


And all I ask is 10% share holding.  :Wink:

----------


## austinite

> After re-re-re-reading your post, I have a few more questions. Would you mind expanding on the supplements L-Glutamine, CoQ10, horny goat weed, Pycnogenol, and resveratrol? Also, I know you don't take protein powders; but do you take creatine? Last week I just started taking micronized creatine monohydrate, but I wanted your thoughts.


I will make an update soon to include these. No creatine for me.





> Neat idea by Krugger! Call it a Vascularity stack!
> 
> @ bringdaheat: don't take cialis if your BP runs low.


 Yes, clialis lowers BP, too low if you already have low BP. I like the Vas Stack name!




> Also in regards to vitamin E, I found a powder that is Vitamin E, D-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate. You mentioned that it should be tocopherol (alpha, beta, delta, gamma), so should I not purchase this one? I should purchase a vitamin E supplement that has all the different types of tocopherols? If so, what is the ideal ratio?


Either is fine. If you can't find it it's ok. Lef.org has it but theyre not cheap unless you find it on amazon. E will still work. This is the one I use so you can reference ratios: Gamma E Tocopherol with Sesame Lignans, 60 softgels Just click on supp facts.

----------


## austinite

> And all I ask is 10% share holding.


Deal  :Wink:  maybe!

----------


## basketballfan22

Okay, thanks. I think there may be a typo in your chart though. The link you provided for the vitamin E supplement says that one capsule contains 45 IU of vitamin E, but your chart says you take 800 IU per day. That means you take 18 capsules per day?!?

----------


## basketballfan22

Can you explain why you don't take creatine too?

----------


## basketballfan22

I would also like to add that puritan.com has very affordable vitamins and minerals. I am not sure how, but some of their capsules even compete with the powders you can buy. They have free shipping and a 10% discount going on now to boot.

----------


## austinite

> Okay, thanks. I think there may be a typo in your chart though. The link you provided for the vitamin E supplement says that one capsule contains 45 IU of vitamin E, but your chart says you take 800 IU per day. That means you take 18 capsules per day?!?


lol, no. Vitamin E on the chart (Which I really need to update) is not measured the same. D-alpha tocopherol is 400iu (which is what I used to use) and is good enough to protect fatty acids. Look here: Pure Natural Vitamin E, 400 IU 100 vegetarian capsules

Only D-Alpha toco is measured in iu, everything else is in mg. The one I used to take was all D-Alpha. I'll update the chart soon.

----------


## austinite

> Can you explain why do don't take creatine too?


Nothing wrong with creatine. I just use other supplements to get the same, or better benefit. I take enough amino acids to produce plenty. Specifically, Arginine, Citrulline and Methionine.

ps. Original Post has been updated at the bottom. Going to wait on Pycnogenol because I introduced it recently. I'll wait until I have some experience with it.

----------


## areichert

austinite have you ever had an experience with taking any supplements before a workout that causes you to get nauseas?

----------


## austinite

> austinite have you ever had an experience with taking any supplements before a workout that causes you to get nauseas?


Yes. 

10 grams of arginine made me sick.

----------


## basketballfan22

God austinite, if you want to ban me, I would understand. I have wayyyy too many questions, so I am sorry. I have a question on L-citrulline. I know cj111 asked you about L-citrulline vs. citrulline malate already, but I am still confused. I understand that the malic acid may allow it to be absorbed better, but the doses are slightly skewed. Most citrulline malate supplements have a ratio of 2:1 citrulline to malic acid; therefore when taking a gram of citrulline malate, you are actually only taking 666 mg of citrulline. Do you recommend spending the extra six bucks for pure L-citrulline, or save some money on citrulline malate even if that means you will be taking smaller doses? Does the decrease in dosage balance out because it is absorbed better?

----------


## austinite

> God austinite, if you want to ban me, I would understand. I have wayyyy too many questions, so I am sorry. I have a question on L-citrulline. I know cj111 asked you about L-citrulline vs. citrulline malate already, but I am still confused. I understand that the malic acid may allow it to be absorbed better, but the doses are slightly skewed. Most citrulline malate supplements have a ratio of 2:1 citrulline to malic acid; therefore when taking a gram of citrulline malate, you are actually only taking 666 mg of citrulline. Do you recommend spending the extra six bucks for pure L-citrulline, or save some money on citrulline malate even if that means you will be taking smaller doses? Does the decrease in dosage balance out because it is absorbed better?


lmao. This thread is not here for giggles, it's here so that you and me can ask questions and learn more from it. Keep the questions coming, it actually raised a few questions while researching heavily myself. 

Can you link me to an example of what you're looking at?

----------


## areichert

Maybe thats whats doing it to me, I'm taking Arginine with Citrulline before bed and workout.

----------


## austinite

> Maybe thats whats doing it to me, I'm taking Arginine with Citrulline before bed and workout.


What time do you workout and what time do you go to bed?

----------


## areichert

I'll take one every night around 9, since I fall asleep around 10. Mon-Fri I'll I usually hit the gym after work which anywhere from 4-6 PM. Weekends I hit the gym around 9 AM.

----------


## austinite

> I'll take one every night around 9, since I fall asleep around 10. Mon-Fri I'll I usually hit the gym after work which anywhere from 4-6 PM. Weekends I hit the gym around 9 AM.


I would then use it in the morning and pre-workout. There are other amino acids you could be using post-workout as outlined in the original post.

----------


## areichert

You think Keytones can be sensitive to the stomach as well?

----------


## basketballfan22

Here is the link to the page to a citrulline malate powder.

Citrulline Malate Powder - 180 grams

Did you want me to supply links to the articles I am reading on both too? I don't want to hijack your thread and post a bunch of links to outside sources talking about the contrasts. Sadly, I am having trouble coming to my own conclusion on what is better. For every credible (and not credible) source I find favoring one, I find an equally credible (and not credible) source favoring the other one.

I am finding it slightly difficult to determine which is better between L-cysteine and N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC); although I am beginning to lean towards NAC. Same thing with L-tyrosine and N-acetyl-tyrosine.

----------


## austinite

> Here is the link to the page to a citrulline malate powder.
> 
> Citrulline Malate Powder - 180 grams
> 
> Did you want me to supply links to the articles I am reading on both too? I don't want to hijack your thread and post a bunch of links to outside sources talking about the contrasts. Sadly, I am having trouble coming to my own conclusion on what is better. For every credible (and not credible) source I find favoring one, I find an equally credible (and not credible) source favoring the other one.
> 
> I am finding it slightly difficult to determine which is better between L-cysteine and N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC); although I am beginning to lean towards NAC.


Thats the citrulline that I used i'm using in my next batch. Nothing wrong with either. Stick to malate, even at lower volume you'll absorb a little more. 

NAC is a derivative of Cysteine. So they're not the same. NAC is absorbed better, yes... and it's benefit over Cysteine is raising Glutathione levels (which gives you a host of benefits). But you also need Glutamine and Glycine for this to take place. Cysteine doesn't need any help, although it's effects could be amplified with vitamin E.

----------


## cj111

How do you make capsules? I'm sick of drinking arginine. Is there a lil machine you use or so you just wing it by hand?

----------


## austinite

> How do you make capsules? I'm sick of drinking arginine. Is there a lil machine you use or so you just wing it by hand?


Yes. You can get a capping kit on amazon pretty cheap. There are simple ones and ones that are quite complex and can mix for you. Doing it by hand is too cumbersome. I only do that for liquid oral AAS.

http://www.amazon.com/Capsule-Connec.../dp/B000PBX3GC

----------


## basketballfan22

There are several types of magnesium, zinc, and copper. Correct me if I am wrong, but it looks like the best types are magnesium orotate, zinc orotate, and copper chelate.

For the green tea extract, would drinking a cup of green tea meet those doses? I read that drinking the tea is better than the super concentrated extract. I suppose the same question can be applied to horny goat weed too.

----------


## austinite

> There are several types of magnesium, zinc, and copper. Correct me if I am wrong, but it looks like the best types are magnesium orotate, zinc orotate, and copper chelate.
> 
> For the green tea extract, would drinking a cup of green tea meet those doses? I read that drinking the tea is better than the super concentrated extract. I suppose the same question can be applied to horny goat weed too.


Magnesium citrate is highly absorbable. That's what I'm using. Zinc and copper, I use chelate.

Horny goat weed as tea is known to be used in China, but it's foul. I don't think you'd enjoy it. 

I'd have to drink gallons of tea to get as much as I supplement. Drinking brewed tea is not superior to extract.

----------


## basketballfan22

Yeah, I read that the citrate versions are highly absorbable too. The orotate versions tend to be pricer, so I am sure it wouldn't be worth the extra money.

----------


## basketballfan22

I realize that anything micronized is absorbed more quickly (e.g. creatine monohydrate), so is that the only difference between micronized DHEA and DHEA? Would non-micronized DHEA not be as effective, and therefore it is worth the extra money to purchase (ultra)micronized DHEA?

----------


## austinite

> I realize that anything micronized is absorbed more quickly (e.g. creatine monohydrate), so is that the only difference between micronized DHEA and DHEA? Would non-micronized DHEA not be as effective, and therefore it is worth the extra money to purchase (ultra)micronized DHEA?


Yes, micronizing is a process to reduce micron diameter. This makes it more absorbable. That is the only difference. That said, 100mg of DHEA does not equal 100mg of Micronized DHEA, as you will get more out of the micronized version, and it's absorbed faster for more immediate effects. 

Anything available micronized is the way to go.

----------


## basketballfan22

Okay, I know you recommended to me before that 25 mg of DHEA would be sufficient; but after reading a few more threads on this site, it appears that I should delay taking it until I get blood work done. I am only 24, and I have never done any AAS. Unfortunately getting blood work done is not really an option yet, so do you advise to hold off or is 25 mg a small enough dose that I shouldn't worry about it?

----------


## austinite

> Okay, I know you recommended to me before that 25 mg of DHEA would be sufficient; but after reading a few more threads on this site, it appears that I should delay taking it until I get blood work done. I am only 24, and I have never done any AAS. Unfortunately getting blood work done is not really an option yet, so do you advise to hold off or is 25 mg a small enough dose that I shouldn't worry about it?


You can get bloodwork, but DHEA isn't harmful. It's perfectly safe. You'll be fine.

----------


## basketballfan22

What do you think about these supplements? I don't exactly know what to look for in extracts, so I was wondering what ones you think are best.

Green Tea Extract:

Green Tea 98% Powder, 50 Grams
Swanson Superior Herbs Green Tea Extract 500 mg 60 Caps - Swanson Health Products

Horny Goat Weed:

Horny Goat Weed (Epimedium) Powder, 100 Grams
NOW Foods Horny Goat Weed 750 mg 90 Tabs - Swanson Health Products

----------


## austinite

^ those are all just fine. With green tea, you can seek a higher percentage of Polyphenol. Should yield around 400mg+ of Polyphenol per capsule. Avoid additives and liquid forms. Some folks might want to consider a decaf version if they have issues with caffeine.

----------


## 3day

Good stuff austinite! Where do you buy all your sups from? And how you getting these amazing pics of Dana Linn Bailey  :2Up To Something: ?

----------


## austinite

> Good stuuf austinite! Where do you buy all your sups from? And how you getting these amazing pics of Dana Linn Bailey ?


Supps are from everywhere. Local, amazon, lef.org, etc... but lots of them are purchased in bulk powder and I cap them myself.

----------


## basketballfan22

It's been 40 hours since I last posted a question; so I thought I would post another one, lol. For your Cialis, I read that you sometimes use the Liquid Cia by AR-R . I found some information on liquid tadalafil, but I want to ask your opinion. By the way the reason I plan to go with Liquid Cia is that AR-R seems to be top-notch and it is cheaper than the generic Cialis I have found on the Internet.

Anyway, from what I have read, liquid tadalafil is absorbed more quickly than the tablet form. In your post austinite, you say that you take 5 mg pre-workout. For me pre-workout tends to be around 10 minutes before I hit the gym; however it seems like even liquid tadalafil doesn't get full absorbed until about two hours later. When do you recommend I should take liquid tadalafil, specifically Liquid Cia? Also seeing as the dosage comes in 30mg/mL, I should take a sixth of a mL. Is it difficult to take a sixth of a mL using the eyedropper it comes with? What time of day do you take the other 5 mg?

----------


## austinite

I always have liquid CIA from AR-R on hand. But I only use it between tab orders, but I have used it as the main source for a while in the past. 

Once you get on a steady schedule with Tadalafil you won't have to stress over timing so much. You would be taking another dose before the half-life is reached. 2 hours prior is just fine. I currently take all my pre-workouts 30 minutes prior to workout. So 5mg around 10:00 pm and again at 9am. Due to some scheduling conflicts, the timing isn't exact every day. But my dosing is always between 10 and 14 hours apart.

You'd be using a 1 ML oral syringe, not an eye dropper. There are 10 notches on an the oral syringe. So since it's 30mg/ML, you would divide 30 by 10 to see how much each notch provides. 

30/10 = 3mg per notch. Without tabs, I would just do 6mg twice daily. The difference in absorption between tabs and liquid can be disregarded as it's too little to be concerned with. Also note that it is not affected by food. So you can take it anytime.

----------


## basketballfan22

Awesome man, thanks as usual.

----------


## basketballfan22

Also I look forward to your updates on coleus forskohlii and pycnogenol. Are you going to post a description on resveratrol too? I know you didn't mention in it in your original post, but you told Windex that it is already included in your fish oil capsules.

I thought you might be interested in checking these fish oil capsules (Order - Omegavia). It seems very legit, and it is actually cheaper for the same dose than your supplement if you get the automatic re-ordering option. From my research, it has a more ideal EPA to DHA ratio. Anyway, you can read their website and decide for yourself.

----------


## austinite

I finished evaluating Coleus Forskohlii. Will no longer be using it. Zero effects for me. Still on pycnogenol but nothing to report yet...

Yes, I'll update in the next day or so. Something keeps getting out of whack every time I edit the original post. I end up spending 15 minutes fixing text and making it look right. But I'll get to it. It's not in the fish oil, I take it with fish oil. Must have misworded that. 

Let's have a look at Omegavia:

In comparison to Life Extension, you certainly benefit from taking 1 capsule vs. 2 with Life Extension. EPA is comparable... However, you get almost half of the DHA, and none of the trademarked additions in LE's oil...




> Polyphen-Oil Olive (Olea europa) extract (fruit) [std. to 6.5% polyphenols (19.5 mg), 1.73% hydroxytyrosol/tyrosol (5.2 mg), 0.5% verbascoside/oleuropein (1.5 mg)]
> 
> Sesame seed (Sesamum indicum) lignan extract



*OMEGAVIA*
*LIFE EXTENSION*

----------


## basketballfan22

Well first of all, great attachment. It makes it a lot easier to compare and contrast the two. While Life Extension has the trademarked additions, from a pure Omega stand point, I think OmegaVia wins. If you take one Life Extension softgel, you get 350 mg EPA and 250 mg DHA, both of which are less than the EPA and DHA content in one softgel from OmegaVia. Also from what I have read, not only are the amounts of EPA and DHA important; but the ratio of the quantities is important as well. Depending on what you are looking for (heart health or brain health), the ideal ratio should be close to 2:1 EPA to DHA or vice-versa. In that regard OmegaVia has a ratio of 2.167:1 which is closer to 2:1 than the 1.4:1 ratio of Life Extension. Either way, I don't think you can go wrong.

----------


## austinite

Well, one pill is never a deal breaker for me. But I agree, just take omegas! Both are just fine. That said... I really don't like how omegavia compares itself to lavazo. Total cheap shots across the board. Plus they fail to mention that Lavazo contains vit. E.

----------


## basketballfan22

> Well, one pill is never a deal breaker for me. But I agree, just take omegas! Both are just fine. That said... I really don't like how omegavia compares itself to lavazo. Total cheap shots across the board. Plus they fail to mention that Lavazo contains vit. E.


Haha, yeah I noticed that too. Like it or not, it is all about money; so they need to rely on marketing tactics to increase sales. It is similar to how Samsung started bashing the iPhone in their commercials. When companies do this, it is due to the fact that they recognize the much larger market share a competitor has. I don't think that necessarily means the product is poor (I have heard good things about the Galaxy), but it would be nice if companies just stated the facts and allowed consumers to make their own decisions. Seeing how stupid most people are (I know that sounds very arrogant and elitist), stating facts is not sufficient. It is easy to "dupe" people into buying shit, even if the product actually is a good one to begin with.

----------


## FONZY007

Question I seem the Crestor, is that just on cycle or year round? Is it prescribed!!

----------


## austinite

> Question I seem the Crestor, is that just on cycle or year round? Is it prescribed!!


Yes, that is a prescription and should only be used under doctors orders.

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## FONZY007

> Yes, that is a prescription and should only be used under doctors orders.


So it's do to cycling, does your doctor know?

----------


## basketballfan22

I have a few questions on some of the vitamins and minerals in my multivitamin that you don't take. I won't list all of them here at once, but I will name a few right now. Why do you not take vitamin A, thiamine (vitamin B1), riboflavin (vitamin B2), niacin (vitamin B3), and vitamin B6?

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## austinite

> So it's do to cycling, does your doctor know?


Well, due to many things, but cycling makes it worse. Doc doesn't and will never know.

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## FONZY007

> Well, due to many things, but cycling makes it worse. Doc doesn't and will never know.


Oh ok

----------


## Repsol

Wow, I just found this thread. Awesome stuff Austinite! Now I'm going to be reading this my last 2 hours at work.  :Smilie:

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## austinite

> Wow, I just found this thread. Awesome stuff Austinite! Now I'm going to be reading this my last 2 hours at work.


Good to hear repsol. Enjoy.

----------


## austinite

> I have a few questions on some of the vitamins and minerals in my multivitamin that you don't take. I won't list all of them here at once, but I will name a few right now. Why do you not take vitamin A, thiamine (vitamin B1), riboflavin (vitamin B2), niacin (vitamin B3), and vitamin B6?


Sorry I missed this post.

*Vitamin A:* I use this once per week. Mainly because it helps against bacteria or infections. You simply heal faster with this vitamin. Even broken bones heal faster. But it has more benefit to it like vision. Mainly at night. This is why Mom always said "Eat your carrots, good for your vision!". It's also good for bones and teeth. And the liver loves Vitamin A. I take 25,000 iu every Sunday. Talk about needing to update my list. 

*Vitamin B1:* Tons of this is found in food. Nuts, seeds, vegetables and fruits contain sufficient amounts. Adjusting diet slightly can get you there, no need for excessive amounts of B1. Although supplementing is not harmful, if it is done, I would only recommend doing it before bed, because it starts to act like Magnesium by relaxing the muscles, and in even higher doses could cause drowsiness. 150 mg of Vitamin B1 would put me to sleep quickly. but in fair doses.. it's a good vitamin, good for the brain, nervous system, metabolism (specifically carbs) and using junk in your body for energy. You'd know if you had a deficiency. 

*Vitamin B2:* Very similar to B1. Abundant in foods, converts sugar to energy, macronutrient metabolism and more. This one however, is needed to form red blood cells. B2 is great for the "outside" of the body, such as nails, hair and skin health. Excess B2 is typically pissed away (another reason not to worry about supplementation if diet is decent). But, super high doses could cause kidney stones. How high? No idea. Everyone is different, and I don't want to find out  :Smilie: 

*Vitamin B3:* Also joins the above with macro metabolism and abundance in food. But B3 is unique because it's required to produce cortisone and sex hormones. One of the reason I personally love B3 is because it can lower cholesterol. But I don't supplement with B3 because I get enough. Besides, L-Tryptophan = more B3. 

*Vitamin B6:* I actually do use B6 because it allows B12 to be absorbed better. Another decent nutrient partitioner. 100mg of B6 along with my daily B12 is plenty.

You didn't mention B5, which I recommend for acne when coupled with Zinc. 

Hope this helps.

----------


## blummy

Can you ever have to much of a certain supplement? AS IN:

I did see you had 10g of argnine and it made you feel sick, but what i'm saying is there only a certain amount your body can really take in and the rest gets passed through and if so, how do you go about finding what is good for you? Or you just take doeses close to what you have mentioned because thats the recommended does that you've researched and found to be the best?

For instance i take:
L-Cysteine 3000mg
L-Lysine 750mg
L-Methionine 3000mg
L-Arginnine AKG 3000mg
L-Citrulline DL Malate 3000mg
L-Leucine 1750mg
Beta-Alanine 1500mg
L-Valine 875mg
L-tyrosine 1000mg
L-isoleucine 875mg
L-Gluteamine 1250mg
Taurine 1000mg

I do have one other sup which i don't take.. This contains

L-valine 500mg
L-isoleucine 500mg
L-leucine 4000mg
N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine 700mg
L-Carnitine-L-Tartrate 2000mg
D-Aspartic Acid 3000mg


Plus i have other suppliments like
liv.52
Fish oils
Udo's oil blend
multi vits ect ect

But should i be increasing or cutting anything back?

My diet is essientially Chicken, brown rice, broc, beans, tuna (spring water) Lean steak (before bed) Sweet patato. Eggs, hi-bran weetbixs (with water) and spelt, 3+ litres of water a day. PLUS i was addicated to coffee i swear so now i have 1 coffee a day with no sugar

Should i be added some stuff in or what should i be doing? I just want to take it further if you get what i mean. If i do have sugar it will be simple sugar like dextrose as a 'carry'

Need to add minerals thats for sure.

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## austinite

Blummy, the list you have up there isnt bad at all. Timing could be something you want to look into. however, my list is massive because I'm a living breathing experiment with these supps. You don't really need ALL that. 

When are you taking these aminos?

----------


## basketballfan22

> Sorry I missed this post.
> 
> *Vitamin A:* I use this once per week. Mainly because it helps against bacteria or infections. You simply heal faster with this vitamin. Even broken bones heal faster. But it has more benefit to it like vision. Mainly at night. This is why Mom always said "Eat your carrots, good for your vision!". It's also good for bones and teeth. And the liver loves Vitamin A. I take 25,000 iu every Sunday. Talk about needing to update my list. 
> 
> *Vitamin B1:* Tons of this is found in food. Nuts, seeds, vegetables and fruits contain sufficient amounts. Adjusting diet slightly can get you there, no need for excessive amounts of B1. Although supplementing is not harmful, if it is done, I would only recommend doing it before bed, because it starts to act like Magnesium by relaxing the muscles, and in even higher doses could cause drowsiness. 150 mg of Vitamin B1 would put me to sleep quickly. but in fair doses.. it's a good vitamin, good for the brain, nervous system, metabolism (specifically carbs) and using junk in your body for energy. You'd know if you had a deficiency. 
> 
> *Vitamin B2:* Very similar to B1. Abundant in foods, converts sugar to energy, macronutrient metabolism and more. This one however, is needed to form red blood cells. B2 is great for the "outside" of the body, such as nails, hair and skin health. Excess B2 is typically pissed away (another reason not to worry about supplementation if diet is decent). But, super high doses could cause kidney stones. How high? No idea. Everyone is different, and I don't want to find out 
> 
> *Vitamin B3:* Also joins the above with macro metabolism and abundance in food. But B3 is unique because it's required to produce cortisone and sex hormones. One of the reason I personally love B3 is because it can lower cholesterol. But I don't supplement with B3 because I get enough. Besides, L-Tryptophan = more B3. 
> ...


Awesome man, thanks for the very descriptive information. You really need to get paid for this. Now like I mentioned in my previous post, I have few more minerals and vitamins I want to ask you about. I don't want to burn you out, so I am trying to limit the number of questions in each individual post.

First, is vitamin B12 the only vitamin you inject? Second, what can you say about folic acid (vitamin B9), biotin (vitamin B7), choline, and iodine?

----------


## austinite

ha. You can't burn me out if you tried  :Wink: 

Yes, B12 is the only vitamin I've injected. All these have tons of similarities. Folic acid is unique as it prevents anemia and is required to generate DNA. 

Biotin shares the same qualities but also known to prevent baldness. Folic Acid is more effective in the presence of Biotin. 

Choline is good for blood pressure and cholesterol. Most important tho, liver and kidneys need it for proper function. 

I don't really know much about iodine.

I implemented all of the above a long time ago. No longer do it though, I don't think I'm short any B complex's and excess is not necessary.

----------


## basketballfan22

Thanks again. Now how about selenium, manganese, chromium, and molybdenum? Also, I forgot to ask. You mentioned that you supplement 100mg of vitamin B6 along with your "daily B12." Seeing as I am not cycling, I plan to only use 1000 mcg of vitamin B12 every week per your recommendation. Would you still recommend a daily consumption of 100mg of vitamin B6?

By the way, this is the second to last post containing my current questions; so you are almost through.  :Wink:

----------


## drake4243

Austinite great article very knowledgeable, I had 3 quick questions for you first I am a huge fan of beta alanine I noticed you dont take it is there a reason with a list that extensive I would have thought to see it on there? Also I know many people dont like it but I have been taking Gaba since forever before bed I am positive it does nothing for growth but it does wonders for a great nights sleep and it wont leave you drowsy at all in the morning just 3 to 5 g a night and you are gtg. Finally do you have a recommendation for something to get my HDL up i eat very clean i am under 15% body fat take 3600mg of fish oil a day and it is always low when i get it checked on or off cycle makes no difference its low. It is a family issue everyone in mine suffers from this but no matter what i try i cant get it normal, didnt know if you had any ideas on that i will try anything thanks very much.

----------


## austinite

> Thanks again. Now how about selenium, manganese, chromium, and molybdenum? Also, I forgot to ask. You mentioned that you supplement 100mg of vitamin B6 along with your "daily B12." Seeing as I am not cycling, I plan to only use 1000 mcg of vitamin B12 every week per your recommendation. Would you still recommend a daily consumption of 100mg of vitamin B6?
> 
> By the way, this is the second to last post containing my current questions; so you are almost through.


Yes, use B6 with B12, but only on B12 days, not daily. 

selenium, manganese, chromium, and molybdenum

Manganese is actually pretty interesting, funny you mention it because I've just spent a week looking for studies and reading up on it. Very small quantities are needed (if any at all). Seems we have about 8 to 12 mg in our bodies at any given time. It's recommended for those with "dry joints" as it acts as a lubricant. Apparently it's functions are amplified with the presence of Vitamin E. Another reason to love E  :Smilie:  It can also stabilize blood sugar and form cartilage. Pretty powerful for a tiny amount, huh? 

Lot's of issues could arise from Manganese deficiency. Vision and hearing problems, high colesterol, hypertension, high pulse and could even cause damage to the pancreas. So I would say it's crucial. However, I am still researching dosages and over-dosing. 

Chromium can help balance blood sugar as well. This is because it helps with proper insulin use. If you're diabetic however, I'd check with a doctor before supplementing. That's all I can tell ya about it. 

Ready to fall in love with Vitamin E again? You probably already guessed. Selenium is an antioxidant, but when coupled with E, it becomes a powerhouse. It has several functions, but it mainly exists to prevent lipids from oxidizing. I've read that it can prevent tumors, but I don't recall seeing anything scientific on that. That said, too much Selenium is not good. Too much could result in arthritis. 

Molybdenum is going to send me researching. 

I did read up a little on iodine since your last post, seems it helps with fat metabolism and is crucial for thyroid function. The thyroid relation really peaked my interest so I'll be going into heavy research on this one. Glad you brought it up. I didn't read anything on deficiencies, but excess iodine can cause vomiting and diarrhea. Spinach, asparagus, mushrooms and just about all seafood are good sources.

----------


## austinite

> Austinite great article very knowledgeable, I had 3 quick questions for you first I am a huge fan of beta alanine I noticed you don’t take it is there a reason with a list that extensive I would have thought to see it on there? Also I know many people don’t like it but I have been taking Gaba since forever before bed I am positive it does nothing for growth but it does wonders for a great night’s sleep and it won’t leave you drowsy at all in the morning just 3 to 5 g a night and you are gtg. Finally do you have a recommendation for something to get my HDL up i eat very clean i am under 15% body fat take 3600mg of fish oil a day and it is always low when i get it checked on or off cycle makes no difference its low. It is a family issue everyone in mine suffers from this but no matter what i try i can’t get it normal, didn’t know if you had any ideas on that i will try anything thanks very much.


Thanks drake. 

Beta alanine is great if your pH levels are out of whack. Super low carb diets like the Atkins diet could throw your pH levels. That's when I really recommend Beta Alanine. (it's conversion to Carnosine is what helps) - I see all the claims of endurance but have never experienced that myself when I supplemented with it. I just don't see a need for it in my protocol, and I test my pH levels several times per week. I'm doing A-OK!

Gaba is good stuff. It's the opposite of glutamate in a sense, but they balance each other out in the brain. Your dose is good @ 3-5 grams. It's great for your mood and sleep. But I get the same effects from L-theanine and Magnesium, with more benefit. Not discounting Gaba, keep taking it!

As for raising HDL, are you taking your Omega's with Vitamin E? If not, start doing that. Other supplements that will help are Vitamin B3 & 5. Don't overdo this though. Twice the recommended amount on the bottle is sufficient. Be sure your diet is heavy with oatmeal, avocado, almonds/peanuts or almond/peanut butter (all natural), those will also help.

----------


## drake4243

Thats great thanks I am not taking it with vitamin e but I will start to, along with your other suggestions as well b3 and 5 twice the bottles dose my diet is heavy in almonds and avocado, not much oatmeal of peanut butter right but I will now re-write it to include that thanks again.

----------


## basketballfan22

You are the man austinite. I was aware that iodine impacted thyroid function because people with iodine deficiencies sometimes develop goiters (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goitre) (_Seinfeld_ anyone?). Also, most of the salt one purchases is "iodized salt" which contains around 68 mcg of iodine per 1/4 of a teaspoon.

I will cite the supposedly recommended doses of some of the vitamins and minerals I asked you about based off of what my multivitamin states. I am sure these dosages are way off and are recommended for the "average" person, which we clearly are not.

Vitamin B7: 400 mcg per day, multivitamin has 600 mcg
Vitamin B9: 300 mcg per day, multivitamin has 300 mcg
Choline: no recommended dose, multivitamin has 10 mg
Iodine: 150 mcg per day, multivitamin has 150 mcg
Selenium: 70 mcg per day, multivitamin has 200 mcg
Manganese: 2 mg per day, multivitamin has 5 mg
Chromium: 120 mcg per day, multivitamin has 120 mcg
Molybdenum: 73 mcg per day, multivitamin has 80 mcg

----------


## basketballfan22

How do you measure your pH level, and what is the ideal pH level? Now for the last group of minerals (for now at least). What information do you have on boron, silica (silicon dioxide), lutein, and vanadium?

There are no recommended doses for those minerals, but my current multivitamin contains

Boron: 2 mg
Silica: 5 mg
Lutein: 500 mcg
Vanadium: 100 mcg

Many thanks in advance.

----------


## austinite

> How do you measure your pH level, and what is the ideal pH level? Now for the last group of minerals (for now at least). What information do you have on boron, silica (silicon dioxide), lutein, and vanadium.
> 
> There are no recommended doses for those minerals, but my current multivitamin contains
> 
> Boron: 2 mg
> Silica: 5 mg
> Lutein: 500 mcg
> Vanadium: 100 mcg
> 
> Many thanks in advance.


I use pH ion strips. Optimal level is between 6.75 and 7.25 via urine test, or 7 to 7.5 via saliva. The strips have 2 squares at the end that change color when mixed with Saliva or if urine is passed across them, and then compared to a chart. Similar to the way I test Nitric Oxide levels. If Saliva method is used, you should be fasted. So when you first wake up. They're cheap, you can get 90 strips for $5. 

Pretty limited knowledge on the minerals you listed. Boron actually helps metabolize other minerals, so that makes it essential. Great for your bones. Some similarity to Vitamin D actually. 

Vanadium also plays a role in bone health, and teeth, too. I do recall that it should not be taken if you're supplementing chromium. I'll have to go back to the "The Real Vitamin & Mineral Book" for that one.

----------


## basketballfan22

Just looked up _The Real Vitamin & Mineral Book_ (http://www.amazon.com/Real-Vitamin-M.../dp/158333274X), I think I am going to have to get a copy of this. Also thanks for the pH strip advice. Now as a comprehensive followup question to the minerals and vitamins I asked you about, it appears that the only additional vitamins/minerals you supplement with are vitamin A and vitamin B6?

----------


## austinite

> Just looked up _The Real Vitamin & Mineral Book_ (The Real Vitamin and Mineral Book, 4th edition: The Definitive Guide to Designing Your Personal Supplement Program: Nancy Pauling Bruning, Shari Lieberman: 9781583332740: Amazon.com: Books), I think I am going to have to get a copy of this. Also thanks for the pH strip advice. Now as a comprehensive followup question to the minerals and vitamins I asked you about, it appears that the only additional vitamins/minerals you supplement with are vitamin A and vitamin B6?


That is correct. This goes for my "guaranteed" daily intake. But once in a while I play with other vitamin and minerals for short periods and then come off. Vitamin K is probably the only one I wont touch.

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## basketballfan22

For your weekly supply of 25,000 IU of vitamin A, is that in the form of retinol or carotenes? I read that retinol is absorbed 2-24 times more than carotenes. Also I read that the upper limit dose for vitamin A in a day is 10,000 IU (in retinol form). Is there a reason you only take vitamin A once per week?

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## austinite

> For your weekly supply of 25,000 IU of vitamin A, is that in the form of retinol or carotenes? I read that retinol is absorbed 2-24 times more than carotenes. Also I read that the upper limit dose for vitamin A in a day is 10,000 IU (in retinol form). Is there a reason you only take vitamin A once per week?


Palmitate retinol. Suggested daily use is silly. Do I look like someone who takes recommended dosages??? lol. This stuff has the longest half life ever. Look at how much C we take compared to recommended doses. I don't know about absorption differences. But I do know that there retinoids (in animals) and Carotenoids (found in plants) are not made equal. While similar, there are unique benefits to each. I've been taking powder form for a long while now, never really looked too much into carotenoids.

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## cj111

A nurse friend of mine yesterday thought I was insane for using B12 injections, she said I'm going to kill my liver. 
She said nobody has a B12 deficiency unless you are older, even then it is very rare.

That being said, I've never had BW done, is there a point in taking the 1000mcg a week ? She was also the same one that told me to stop taking my Vit D and C because the body produces it naturally. I usually take 2-3000mg Vit D daily and 2000mg vit C.

I don't even know what my question is anymore...fack

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## austinite

> A nurse friend of mine yesterday thought I was insane for using B12 injections, she said I'm going to kill my liver. 
> She said nobody has a B12 deficiency unless you are older, even then it is very rare.
> 
> That being said, I've never had BW done, is there a point in taking the 1000mcg a week ? She was also the same one that told me to stop taking my Vit D and C because the body produces it naturally. I usually take 2-3000mg Vit D daily and 2000mg vit C.
> 
> I don't even know what my question is anymore...fack


Yeah, I mentioned something similar in the original post about a doc that told me I didn't need to increase my D levels. They simply don't know better. So I'd say that nurse is clueless, and even most doctors, unfortunately. Just because the body produces something, doesn't mean it produces optimum levels. What you gain from Vitamin D and C supplementation is far greater than what your natural ability can provide. No question about that whatsoever. 

B12 for me is like water, it's an absolute must, I don't even think about it, I just do it. Especially on cycle, it combats ad overcomes many objections that my body gives me. I feel better, a greater overall well being if you will, I get an energy boost and a lot more. Here's a copy of the list in the original post:

*1. Increased Energy.*
2. Regenerates Red Blood Cells.
3. Healthy Bone Marrow.
4. Healthy Nervous System.
5. Helps Prevent Anemia.
6. Proper cell function.
*7. Necessary for macro-nutrient metabolism (carbs, fats, proteins).
**8. Enhances alertness and memory.
*
Can you still get these benefits naturally without supplementation? Yes, of course, but not nearly as effective. Never go without B12. In bold are ones I can feel and/or see results. So even if you don't "feel" much, it's certainly doing a great deal for you in the background.

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## kelkel

Really turned out to be a great thread Austin! Nice work!

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## cj111

Thanks again mr Wikipedia

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## austinite

Thanks, Gentlemen. I've learned a lot myself from this thread.

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## brazuka

Hi there, I would love some information on supplements I could take or stack together that would increase my sex drive and libido. It hasn't been any good my whole life and I am very open to trying anything that could help me improve it!

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## austinite

> Hi there, I would love some information on supplements I could take or stack together that would increase my sex drive and libido. It hasn't been any good my whole life and I am very open to trying anything that could help me improve it.



I've read what you've said in the other thread so this stack below is a 2-part stack that will help, as I believe the issue is mostly in your head, but I'm going to suggest some mood enhancers as well. 

*L-Tryptophan:* 1 gram in the morning, 1 gram at lunch
*L-Theanine:* 200mg 4 to 5 times per day. 
*L-Citrulline (Malate version if possible):* 1 gram in the morning, 1 gram at night. 
*Horny Goat Weed (Epimedium):* 1 gram in the morning, 500mg before bed. 
*MACA:* 800mg in the morning, 800mg before bed

This is basically working on your mood with a little help in libido and increasing blood flow. I think if you relieve some stress, you will get there, but the other ingredients will get you there faster. 

Please try this and let me know how it works for you. Allow it at least 3 to 4 weeks. I'd love to see this work for you before going the cialis route.

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## brazuka

> I've read what you've said in the other thread so this stack below is a 2-part stack that will help, as I believe the issue is mostly in your head, but I'm going to suggest some mood enhancers as well. 
> 
> *L-Tryptophan:* 1 gram in the morning, 1 gram at lunch
> *L-Theanine:* 200mg 4 to 5 times per day. 
> *L-Citrulline (Malate version if possible):* 1 gram in the morning, 1 gram at night. 
> *Horny Goat Weed (Epimedium):* 1 gram in the morning, 500mg before bed. 
> *MACA:* 800mg in the morning, 800mg before bed
> 
> This is basically working on your mood with a little help in libido and increasing blood flow. I think if you relieve some stress, you will get there, but the other ingredients will get you there faster. 
> ...


I'm going to call my local Vitamin Shoppe tomorrow to see if they have all of those products in stock. If they don't I will order through ebay or amazon and when I have everything I will take a picture and post them here as an update! Thank you very much for taking your time to read a 10 paragraph background story and taking your time to post these in order to help me... Thankyou!!!!

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## austinite

> I'm going to call my local Vitamin Shoppe tomorrow to see if they have all of those products in stock. If they don't I will order through ebay or amazon and when I have everything I will take a picture and post them here as an update! Thank you very much for taking your time to read a 10 paragraph background story and taking your time to post these in order to help me... Thankyou!!!!


Sounds good. I'm really looking forward to hearing updates from you in this thread. Please keep me posted. 

Stay powerful, champ!

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## blummy

> Blummy, the list you have up there isnt bad at all. Timing could be something you want to look into. however, my list is massive because I'm a living breathing experiment with these supps. You don't really need ALL that. 
> 
> When are you taking these aminos?


Sorry for the late reply, alot i take in the a/m before i train. But some days due to my kickboxing background which i still do i will split it and take half in the morning half at night. But generally as a pre workout type thing

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## Live for the PUMP

Thanks for the wealth of information on these vitamins and amino acids! 

I am looking to increase my vascularity. I have used L-Arginine in the past. From reading this I see L-Citrulline will also help with vascularity. Any preference in pill or powder for the arginine? I noticed that powder form gives 4,600 mg a serving where as pill form there was a max of 1,000mg a serving. Cost analysis would favor powder. However is one more effective than the other?

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## austinite

> Thanks for the wealth of information on these vitamins and amino acids! 
> 
> I am looking to increase my vascularity. I have used L-Arginine in the past. From reading this I see L-Citrulline will also help with vascularity. Any preference in pill or powder for the arginine? I noticed that powder form gives 4,600 mg a serving where as pill form there was a max of 1,000mg a serving. Cost analysis would favor powder. However is one more effective than the other?


Hey LFTP!

Not sure what you mean by powder gives more mg's. You would just use whatever dose you wanted. There are no "Servings" so to speak. Pill come in all kinds of sizes. Anyway, the important thing with Arginine is to find a micronized version for better absorption. Pill or powder, just as effective.

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## austinite

> L-Cysteine 3000mg
> L-Lysine 750mg
> L-Methionine 3000mg
> L-Arginnine AKG 3000mg
> L-Citrulline DL Malate 3000mg
> L-Leucine 1750mg
> Beta-Alanine 1500mg
> L-Valine 875mg
> L-tyrosine 1000mg
> ...






> Sorry for the late reply, alot i take in the a/m before i train. But some days due to my kickboxing background which i still do i will split it and take half in the morning half at night. But generally as a pre workout type thing


That's a considerable amount for a pre-workout. You'll find that some of your Amino's are counter productive...

I recommend you remove the following from your pre-workout:

- L-Cystiene (take post workout)
- L-Tyrosine (take before bed)
- L-Glutamine (take before bed)

I'm still debating the Arginine:Citrulline ratio. I'm leaning towards higher Cit than Arg. But I haven't made that decision yet.

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## austinite

Original post update with corrected protocol. Probably still off since I'm absolutely exhausted and my eyes are blurry. Here's a copy:

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## austinite

_Vascularity stacks and protocols have been added to the original post, here is a quick copy:_

*VASCULARITY*

I don't know about you, but I certainly love the vascular look. The more the better! Some may not like it, but I think most of us regular gym goers crave the look. It's not just a look, it's motivating. Especially at the gym when you get that nice pump and your veins start popping out from everywhere. There are tons of positive things that happen in our bodies that lead to this. As a lifter and/or body builder, it's crucial to achieve the steps that lead to vascularity. 

Before we move forward with explanations and supplementation I need to make sure to get the main key out of the way. Diet. you've heard it a million times... "Abs are made in the kitchen", well that goes for vascularity as well What you consume and how much of it will eventually determine your body fat percentage. A lower body fat percentage will yield a higher level of vascularity I'm not saying you have to be "stage ready" at 4 to 6% body fat. But certainly not easily attainable when we're over 15%. Now again, that number is not set in stone. Everyone is different and genetics play a strong role here.

Nitric Oxide levels have a massive effect on our bodies with tons of benefits. But today we will discuss the ones that are related to this topic:

*Blood Flow/Circulation:*
Increasing your blood flow is the first key. Boosting your nitric oxide levels will achieve this by relaxing the blood vessels, leading to an increase in diameter. Blood flows better in bigger/wider veins.

*Muscle Cell Endurance:*
Endurance is not only related to your cardio abilities. Your muscles' endurance can be targeted by boosting your nitric oxide levels. This will allow you to lift heavy. But also helps with efficient recovery from strenuous lifting, inevitably leading to growth.

*Muscle Mass:*
This goes hand in hand with the 1st one mentioned, blood flow. Imagine your body is a plant that needs watering. If you water this plant with a tiny hose that has the diameter of a drinking straw, it will take forever to feed it. It's just not effective. But if you water the plant with a large diameter hose, you'll feed it quickly and efficiently. Same goes for your muscles. The larger the vessels that lead to your muscles, the more nutrients they will get. It's that simple. Open the flood gates.

*What can I supplement with to increase vascularity?*

Ok, so some of you probably jumped straight to this section. there are many supplements out there that will help. Strategically stacking some of these supplements will better your chances. Amino acids are a key player here, obviously. 
Our good friend gdevine saved us a ton of time and has put together a stack that works. I say this because I've replicated it and I'm very happy with the results. Now, some of you may not be able to attain some of the prescription medications and/or afford the cost, so I will also give you another option that you can get at a fair price over the counter from your local pharmacy. 

*gdevine's vascularity stack and protocol:
*
*NOTE:* gdevines protocol goes far beyond vascularity. Below you will see his objectives and protocol, which most certainly leads to outstanding levels of vascularity.




> *Objectives:*
> * Increased Blood Flow
> * Increased Vascularity
> * Increased Erection Quality
> * Increased Libido
> * Increased Prostate Health
> * Increased Performance in Gym
> * Prophylactic Neurological Benefits (Decrease likelihood of Alzheimer's & Dementia)
> * Optimize Blood Pressure
> ...


*Source:* gdevine has done a great deal of explanation in his thread. Many follow up questions and answers are posted in his thread. Please visit his thread as there is no better man to answer questions regarding this stack than the man himself. Clck here to view.

*Please understand:* You do not want to cut corners here. When I made my first attempt, I did not have all the drugs on hand and my results were not as effective. Once I managed to follow the stack precicely, I almost didn't recognize myself after my workout. 

*What can I take over the counter?
*
My main goal for my pre workout was to achieve a great pump, vascularity and muscle endurance. The key players have always been L-Arginine and L-Citrulline. After extensive research, I've come to a conclusion (for myself), that both are required here, but L-Citrulline needs to be dosed at a high ratio than L-Arginine. 

_PRE-WORKOUT:_
L-Citrulline Malate - 3 grams
L-Arginine (micronized) - 2 grams
L-Lysine - 2 grams
L-Methionine - 1 gram
Pycnogenol - 120 mg (this stuff is not cheap)

_POST WORKOUT:_
L-Cysteine - 1 to 2 grams
Vitamin C - 2 grams

_BEFORE BED_
L-Tyrosine - 1 gram
L-Glutamine - 1.5 grams
Magnesium Citrate - 400 mg

Note that the compounds mentioned are strategically chosen as they work in synergy. They all compliment each other and give you better results than taking them at random. Follow this protocol and give it time to build up, you will see results getting better and better over time. My personal protocol includes other drugs such as cialis, doxa, etc.. but I extracted those from the protocol above, which will still yield some outstanding results for you.

Good luck, stay vascular my friends.

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## Live for the PUMP

> Hey LFTP!
> 
> Not sure what you mean by powder gives more mg's. You would just use whatever dose you wanted. There are no "Servings" so to speak. Pill come in all kinds of sizes. Anyway, the important thing with Arginine is to find a micronized version for better absorption. Pill or powder, just as effective.


Ok. Thank you!

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## basketballfan22

Great update austinite, and unsurprisingly I have more questions. There are few additional compounds that you have not provided information on in the original post.

I assume you take aspirin so that your blood is kept thin and for the potential of reducing heart attacks? I see you are still taking pycnogenol, do you have an update on that yet? Based on your vitamin E supplement, 1 capsule is equal to 45 IU; so you only take 1 capsule per day? I thought you had mentioned that you take two capsules per day? What is NAC? What is metformin hcl? What purpose do you take hydrocortisone for?

Lastly, is "pharmaceutical grade" arginine the same as "micronized" arginine? I found the powder that NOW Foods makes, but it doesn't explicitly state "micronized" (NOW Foods L-Arginine Powder 1 lb Pwdr - Swanson Health Products).

There is one slight inconsistency with your new chart in that you still have your dose of arginine at 3000 mg and citrulline at 2000 mg. Members should read this entire thread though, so it should be obvious. I just thought I should mention it. Thanks a bunch for all of this information. I can't wait to begin my stack.  :Smilie:

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## austinite

> Great update austinite, and unsurprisingly I have more questions. There are few additional compounds that you have not provided information on in the original post.
> 
> I assume you take aspirin so that your blood is kept thin and for the potential of reducing heart attacks? I see you are still taking pycnogenol, do you have an update on that yet? Based on your vitamin E supplement, 1 capsule is equal to 45 IU; so you only take 1 capsule per day? I thought you had mentioned that you take two capsules per day? What is NAC? What is metformin hcl? What purpose do you take hydrocortisone for?
> 
> Lastly, is "pharmaceutical grade" arginine the same as "micronized" arginine? I found the powder that NOW Foods makes, but it doesn't explicitly state "micronized" (NOW Foods L-Arginine Powder 1 lb Pwdr - Swanson Health Products).
> 
> There is one slight inconsistency with your new chart in that you still have your dose of arginine at 3000 mg and citrulline at 2000 mg. Members should read this entire thread though, so it should be obvious. I just thought I should mention it. Thanks a bunch for all of this information. I can't wait to begin my stack.


Your assumption regarding aspirin is correct. It's exactly why I take it. 

Vitamin E on the protocol is an error, as I suspected would happen considering it was 3am when I typed it up. So, 45 x 2 for a total of 90 iu daily, which is taken in 2 doses with the 2 omega-3 doses. I'll fix that later. 

NAC is N-ACETYL CYSTEINE. I think we discussed this earlier in this thread. If not let me know.

Metformin HCL is common for diabetics, although I am not a diabetic, my doctor recommended this to lower blood glucose levels. It's almost time to revisit this one with my doc and it most likely will be discontinued from my regimen. I do not recommend this whatsoever without a doctors order. 

Hydrocortisone is a prescription to raise my cortisol levels. Levels in everyone typically drop in the afternoon. My levels drop too much. Again, not recommended without doctor's orders. 

"NOW" products are very high quality. It is not the micronized, however. A micronized version will absorb better. 

I'll adjust the chart to reflect cit/arg ratios. Again, I was on no sleep for too long  :Smilie:  - as mentioned earlier in the thread I've been playing with the ratios and only recently, literally 2 days ago, came to the decision to dose cit higher. 

no reports on Pycnogenol yet. Soon though. So far so good but I want to make sure I'm on it long enough to justify the profiles on the internet and a more personal view.

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## basketballfan22

Yeah, I understand that is was really late when you made your changes. I promise I was not complaining. As far as NAC goes, we have talked about it; so I apologize. I forgot what NAC stood for. Why is it that you take both NAC and regular cysteine though? When we had talked about it before, I was referring to NAC as a replacement for cysteine. Also I noticed that in this updated regimen you take arginine, lysine, citrulline, cysteine, and glutamine all in one dose now (not necessarily together). Why do you no longer split the doses (e.g. 1000 mg of glutamine in the morning and 500 mg of glutamine at night)?

It is definitely smart to use a supplement for an extended period of time before you talk about its effects, so I am not trying to rush you even though it may come off that way. I was just making sure I hadn't missed any information about pycnogenol.

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## austinite

> Yeah, I understand that is was really late when you made your changes. I promise I was not complaining. As far as NAC goes, we have talked about it; so I apologize. I forgot what NAC stood for. Why is it that you take both NAC and regular cysteine though? When we had talked about it before, I was referring to NAC as a replacement for cysteine. Also I noticed that in this updated regimen you take arginine, lysine, citrulline, cysteine, and glutamine all in one dose now (not necessarily together). Why do you no longer split the doses (e.g. 1000 mg of glutamine in the morning and 500 mg of glutamine at night)?
> 
> It is definitely smart to use a supplement for an extended period of time before you talk about its effects, so I am not trying to rush you even though it may come off that way. I was just making sure I hadn't missed any information about pycnogenol.


lol. I wasn't implying that you were complaining  :Smilie:  Glad you pointed it out so I can fix it.

Well, we know what Cysteine and Nac do, but what you may not have known (which I also learned recently) is that NAC can increase the pathway to Coagulation. (the process that will lead to blood clots). So it acts as a preventative measure. The results from using NAC can be measured with bloodwork and is referred to as "prothrombin time". Nac is also more stable and produces a greater deal of glutathione, the great antioxidant mentioned earlier in this thread. 

I use Cysteine because the conversion of NAC to cysteine in our bodies is not sufficient (not much actual cysteine left after all the conversions). This is better way of dosing (for me) rather than taking a ton of NAC. Also note that I'm not taking NAC daily anymore. I switched to 3 times a week because of my awesome math skills. 3 times a week is plenty.

Arginine, Citrulline and Lysine are the only ones I take in the morning also. (I workout at night), I take a gram of each every morning. That's not on the chart. The preworkout dose listed is the actual dose, not the combination of morning/pre-workout. 

Through a recent elimination process that I did, I noticed that Glutamine has been causing a bit of drowsiness for me. I'm recommending it before bed along with the other muscle relaxers.

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## basketballfan22

> lol. I wasn't implying that you were complaining  Glad you pointed it out so I can fix it.
> 
> Well, we know what Cysteine and Nac do, but what you may not have known (which I also learned recently) is that NAC can increase the pathway to Coagulation. (the process that will lead to blood clots). So it acts as a preventative measure. The results from using NAC can be measured with bloodwork and is referred to as "prothrombin time". Nac is also more stable and produces a greater deal of glutathione, the great antioxidant mentioned earlier in this thread. 
> 
> I use Cysteine because the conversion of NAC to cysteine in our bodies is not sufficient (not much actual cysteine left after all the conversions). This is better way of dosing (for me) rather than taking a ton of NAC. Also note that I'm not taking NAC daily anymore. I switched to 3 times a week because of my awesome math skills. 3 times a week is plenty.
> 
> Arginine, Citrulline and Lysine are the only ones I take in the morning also. (I workout at night), I take a gram of each every morning. That's not on the chart. The preworkout dose listed is the actual dose, not the combination of morning/pre-workout. 
> 
> Through a recent elimination process that I did, I noticed that Glutamine has been causing a bit of drowsiness for me. I'm recommending it before bed along with the other muscle relaxers.


Haha, yeah I didn't think you thought I was complaining; but I wanted to make sure because of how grateful I am for all of your help. I definitely did not know about 'prothrombin time," so you have piqued my interest in reading about it. I don't exactly understand how your "awesome math skills" led you to switch your NAC dosage though, but it made me laugh when I read it.  :Smilie:  Thanks for all of the clarification.

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## austinite

> Haha, yeah I didn't think you thought I was complaining; but I wanted to make sure because of how grateful I am for all of your help. I definitely did not know about 'prothrombin time," so you have piqued my interest in reading about it. *I don't exactly understand how your "awesome math skills" led you to switch your NAC dosage* though, but it made me laugh when I read it.  Thanks for all of the clarification.


lol, not entirely awesome, But I took the absorption ratio, conversion ratio and half life to determine dose and frequency needed. Not getting into all that, but my math brings me to an effective dose of NAC @ 3 mg per LBM weight So LBM x 3 = how many mg's of NAC needed. Dosed 3 times weekly. And Cysteine at 5.25mg per LBM weight, so LBM x 5.25 = daily dose needed. I was good on Cysteine, but taking an unnecessarily higher dose of nac. These numbers simply double when cycling.

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## bringndaheat

Fantastic thread! For those who have taken the time to read I have no doubt it will help. There is no question it has helped me. Thanks again for the work u put into this thread.

-Heat

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## basketballfan22

> lol, not entirely awesome, But I took the absorption ratio, conversion ratio and half life to determine dose and frequency needed. Not getting into all that, but my math brings me to an effective dose of NAC @ 3 mg per LBM weight So LBM x 3 = how many mg's of NAC needed. Dosed 3 times weekly. And Cysteine at 5.25mg per LBM weight, so LBM x 5.25 = daily dose needed. I was good on Cysteine, but taking an unnecessarily higher dose of nac. These numbers simply double when cycling.


Oh damn! I like it. I remember I had asked you about dosages based on body weight (specifically, lean body mass). Are these the only two compounds that you base your dose on your LBM? Also, are you still taking maca? Thanks for the information.

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## austinite

> Oh damn! I like it. I remember I had asked you about dosages based on body weight (specifically, lean body mass). Are these the only two compounds that you base your dose on your LBM? Also, are you still taking maca? Thanks for the information.


Yep. But I'm working on Citrulline and Arginine next. Still taking maca but dropped to 1600 mg, did I miss that too? I should just take a picture of all the supplements instead of a chart, lol. Easier that way.

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## austinite

> Fantastic thread! For those who have taken the time to read I have no doubt it will help. There is no question it has helped me. Thanks again for the work u put into this thread.
> 
> -Heat


Great to hear bring! Go Cowboys ?!

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## austinite

Ok. Chart finally updated and fixed. Thanks for looking out, BBfan. I think I got it right this time, lol. 

I want to remind everyone NOT to follow the D3 dose that I take. I do this because my body doesn't take to it very well. Most people will be just fine at 2000 iu daily.

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## basketballfan22

> Great to hear bring! Go Cowboys ?!


I may be from Colorado, but I agree with that statement. I am a Spurs fan too. Sadly, they just lost; but hopefully they will win Game 5. Before anyone makes ridiculous accusations of my being a fair weathered fan, I have like both of them since I was 3.  :Wink:

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## basketballfan22

> Yep. But I'm working on Citrulline and Arginine next. Still taking maca but dropped to 1600 mg, did I miss that too? I should just take a picture of all the supplements instead of a chart, lol. Easier that way.


Haha! It is hard to keep track of all those damn supplements austinite, while at the same time supplying information about each one. What do you expect?

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## austinite

> I may be from Colorado, but I agree with that statement. I am a Spurs fan too. Sadly, they just lost; but hopefully they will win Game 5. Before anyone makes ridiculous accusations of my being a fair weathered fan, I have like both of them since I was 3.


Well it sounds like you'll be relocating sometime in the future!

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## basketballfan22

> Well it sounds like you'll be relocating sometime in the future!


Lol, well I wouldn't go that far. I think Texas may be a little too hot and dry for my liking. I have no problem rooting for my teams from afar.

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## drake4243

> Thanks drake. 
> 
> Beta alanine is great if your pH levels are out of whack. Super low carb diets like the Atkins diet could throw your pH levels. That's when I really recommend Beta Alanine. (it's conversion to Carnosine is what helps) - I see all the claims of endurance but have never experienced that myself when I supplemented with it. I just don't see a need for it in my protocol, and I test my pH levels several times per week. I'm doing A-OK!
> 
> Gaba is good stuff. It's the opposite of glutamate in a sense, but they balance each other out in the brain. Your dose is good @ 3-5 grams. It's great for your mood and sleep. But I get the same effects from L-theanine and Magnesium, with more benefit. Not discounting Gaba, keep taking it!
> 
> As for raising HDL, are you taking your Omega's with Vitamin E? If not, start doing that. Other supplements that will help are Vitamin B3 & 5. Don't overdo this though. Twice the recommended amount on the bottle is sufficient. Be sure your diet is heavy with oatmeal, avocado, almonds/peanuts or almond/peanut butter (all natural), those will also help.


Hey Austinite. I picked up some vitamin E (Natures made) brand. It says 400i.u per pill and to take 1 to 2 a day on the bottle. I was going to take 4 a day. But I cant really understand any of the conversion calculators so if you could verify that 4 is right I would greatly appreciate it. As far as I can tell I should be taking about 15g worth a day but it is in international units so I cant figure out if four of those is right or not? Thanks again here is a link to the product Nature Made Natural Vitamin E 400 IU d-Alpha

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## austinite

> Hey Austinite. I picked up some vitamin E (Natures made) brand. It says 400i.u per pill and to take 1 to 2 a day on the bottle. I was going to take 4 a day. But I can’t really understand any of the conversion calculators so if you could verify that 4 is right I would greatly appreciate it. As far as I can tell I should be taking about 15g worth a day but it is in international units so I can’t figure out if four of those is right or not? Thanks again here is a link to the product Nature Made Natural Vitamin E 400 IU d-Alpha


Hey drake. 

Are you taking 4 servings of fish oil per day? You only need one of these per dose of Fish Oil. I use tocopherols but this is fine. When I took that same brand, I took 400iu in the morning with my fish oils, and another 400iu at night with fish oil again. 

So 2 pills a day.  :Smilie:

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## drake4243

> Hey drake. 
> 
> Are you taking 4 servings of fish oil per day? You only need one of these per dose of Fish Oil. I use tocopherols but this is fine. When I took that same brand, I took 400iu in the morning with my fish oils, and another 400iu at night with fish oil again. 
> 
> So 2 pills a day.



I am taking 3 servings of fish oil 1 morning, 1 noon and 1 night (3600mg) in total. So i will just take 2 of the vitamin E 1 in morning with fish oil and 1 at night as well. Unless you say otherwise.

----------


## austinite

> I am taking 3 servings of fish oil 1 morning, 1 noon and 1 night (3600mg) in total. So i will just take 2 of the vitamin E 1 in morning with fish oil and 1 at night as well. Unless you say otherwise.


Can you show me what brand you're taking. Got a link?

----------


## drake4243

> Can you show me what brand you're taking. Got a link?


sure thing here it is Nature Made Fish Oil 1200 mg

----------


## austinite

> sure thing here it is Nature Made Fish Oil 1200 mg


Thanks. Ok, yeah.. you need 3 daily doses of those fish oils. But you can just do your vitamin E like you said earlier, morning and night. 

So your Omega/E protocol should look like this...

Morning: Fish Oil + E
Noon : Fish Oil
Night : Fish Oil + E

----------


## drake4243

> Thanks. Ok, yeah.. you need 3 daily doses of those fish oils. But you can just do your vitamin E like you said earlier, morning and night. 
> 
> So your Omega/E protocol should look like this...
> 
> Morning: Fish Oil + E
> Noon : Fish Oil
> Night : Fish Oil + E


thanks for all the help!

----------


## basketballfan22

> Ok. Chart finally updated and fixed. Thanks for looking out, BBfan. I think I got it right this time, lol. 
> 
> I want to remind everyone NOT to follow the D3 dose that I take. I do this because my body doesn't take to it very well. Most people will be just fine at 2000 iu daily.



I just noticed this post. I knew you took 50,000 IU of vitamin D on certain days because your levels were still low, but I wasn't aware that your normal 10,000 IU dose was because of that too. I am glad you pointed that out because I was planning on taking 10,000 IU of vitamin D per day. I will be sure to take 2000 IU instead. Thanks.

----------


## austinite

> I just noticed this post. I knew you took 50,000 IU of vitamin D on certain days because your levels were still low, but I wasn't aware that your normal 10,000 IU dose was because of that too. I am glad you pointed that out because I was planning on taking 10,000 IU of vitamin D per day. I will be sure to take 2000 IU instead. Thanks.


Good. Yeah I just recently increase to 10,000 because of my recent blood work. 2000 is a good daily dose for the average male!

----------


## ineedauser

I am gonna try that pre workout you suggested. Supposed to give pretty good vascular pumps? 

Citruline Malate 
Arginine 
Lysine
Methionine
Pycnogenol

----------


## austinite

> I am gonna try that pre workout you suggested. Supposed to give pretty good vascular pumps?
> 
> Citruline Malate
> Arginine
> Lysine
> Methionine
> Pycnogenol


It sure will brother. You can increase cit and arg a bit once you get used to the feeling, just make sure you maintain the ratio outlined.

----------


## basketballfan22

Hey austinite. I noticed one of the posts you made in another thread a couple of months ago (http://forums.steroid.com/supplement...st-brands.html). You mentioned that the doses and frequencies change when you are on AAS vs. off it. Is this your on cycle regimen? If so, how do you modify the doses for when you are off cycle?

----------


## austinite

> Hey austinite. I noticed one of the posts you made in another thread a couple of months ago (http://forums.steroid.com/supplement...st-brands.html). You mentioned that the doses and frequencies change when you are on AAS vs. off it. Is this your on cycle regimen? If so, how do you modify the doses for when you are off cycle?


Well, it kind of depends on my cycle. Short cycles tend to have small changes, while long cycles might have quite a few. That list has changed since. I dropped Rhodiola and Calcium. NAC dose dropped and increased D. Added a a lot more Amino's.

Generally the ones that are affected are B12, Amino Acids and the "mood" enhancers. They increase on cycle. Cycling for me takes me on a roller coaster ride (depending on the compounds), and increasing these certainly helps stabilize my attitude, emotions, etc... 

The dosing varies. B12 goes to daily vs. weekly, amino's are more "spread out" through the day with higher doses, mood enhancers sometimes double. Anything that impacts blood for the better (lowers pressure, thins blood, better flow) also increases on cycle. 

Most of my changes in the past were due to cycling with Tren . Which I will no longer be using. Too much "yo-yo"-like imbalance for me with Trenbolone .

----------


## basketballfan22

> Well, it kind of depends on my cycle. Short cycles tend to have small changes, while long cycles might have quite a few. That list has changed since. I dropped Rhodiola and Calcium. NAC dose dropped and increased D. Added a a lot more Amino's.
> 
> Generally the ones that are affected are B12, Amino Acids and the "mood" enhancers. They increase on cycle. Cycling for me takes me on a roller coaster ride (depending on the compounds), and increasing these certainly helps stabilize my attitude, emotions, etc... 
> 
> The dosing varies. B12 goes to daily vs. weekly, amino's are more "spread out" through the day with higher doses, mood enhancers sometimes double. Anything that impacts blood for the better (lowers pressure, thins blood, better flow) also increases on cycle. 
> 
> Most of my changes in the past were due to cycling with Tren. Which I will no longer be using. Too much "yo-yo"-like imbalance for me with Trenbolone.


Okay, thanks. I wanted to make sure this regimen would be fine for me seeing as I am not currently cycling. Once I get closer to beginning my first cycle, I will ask you more about cycle doses.

----------


## austinite

> Okay, thanks. I wanted to make sure this regimen would be fine for me seeing as I am not currently cycling. Once I get closer to beginning my first cycle, I will ask you more about cycle doses.


Perfectly fine  :Smilie:  I wouldn't even change much on cycle unless you begin to notice fatigue, irritability, joint pain, insomnia, etc... Some people may get away without increasing.

----------


## RaginCajun

hey bud!

will be hopping on cycle within a week and wondering what supplements/vitamins you think are imperative when cycling.

DHEA? Preg? Vit D3?

i have only been taking multi-v for men, and vit C for the most part. 

i also seem to get muscle spasms very easily. can't tell if it is from lack of potassium, taurine, or dehydration.

thanks bud in advance

----------


## austinite

Hey RC! 

You can throw away your multi-vitamin. Not enough of anything in there. Focus on B12, Vitamin C, D and E and NAC.

For your muscle spasms, start taking Magnesium Citrate. You may have to increase the standard dose to achieve results, but Magnesium is a key player with spasms. (This has nothing to do with Taurine intake).

Hope this helps!

----------


## RaginCajun

> Hey RC! 
> 
> You can throw away your multi-vitamin. Not enough of anything in there. Focus on B12, Vitamin C, D and E and NAC.
> 
> For your muscle spasms, start taking Magnesium Citrate. You may have to increase the standard dose to achieve results, but Magnesium is a key player with spasms. (This has nothing to do with Taurine intake).
> 
> Hope this helps!


it sure does bud, thanks! 

i have asthma, so was also wondering how i could put my body at more of an alkaline level before training, if possible.

----------


## austinite

> it sure does bud, thanks! 
> 
> i have asthma, so was also wondering how i could put my body at more of an alkaline level before training, if possible.


cod liver oil  :Smilie:

----------


## RaginCajun

> cod liver oil


plug it or snort it? 

haha, thanks!

----------


## 3day

I know this is a little off topic but do not deal with bulksupplements.com. I've had to file a dispute thru Paypal to get my money back.They won't send me my supps or even return my emails. Austinite you got any recommendations on good online stores to get bulk pure powder form supplements?

----------


## austinite

Welcome to Beyond A Century - Performance Nutritional Supplments since 1983!

----------


## 3day

> Welcome to Beyond A Century - Performance Nutritional Supplments since 1983!


Thanks. I've got everything in my cart except the L-Arginine.Should i go with Arginie Base or Arginine Pyroglutamate ? Thanks again

----------


## austinite

^ base or AKG

----------


## ineedauser

NOW L-Citruilline or PrimaFORCE Citrulline Malate (2000 milligrams). Is there a difference between the two? I know you said Malate but you have been writing that NOW makes great products. Just wondering if the malate is something I need to complete that pre-workout you recommended.

----------


## austinite

Malate is absorbed better. That doesn't mean NOW products are of poor quality. Both are great, Malate is a superior version, doesn't matter who makes it.

----------


## ineedauser

So am I better off getting the PrimaFORCE? I wanna do this right the first time. I'll get whichever you think i'm better off with. Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it.

----------


## austinite

> So am I better off getting the PrimaFORCE? I wanna do this right the first time. I'll get whichever you think i'm better off with. Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it.


I don't know. You need to show me or link me to labels. I don't have all products in my head  :Smilie:

----------


## ineedauser

Amazon.com: NOW Foods L - Citrulline 750mg, 90 Capsules: Health & Personal Care

Amazon.com: PRIMAFORCE Citrulline Malate 200 Grams: Health & Personal Care

Sorry about that

----------


## austinite

^ no labels? Where?

Label = Supplement Facts & Ingredients.

----------


## ineedauser

Ugh... im sorry!

http://www.bestpricenutrition.com/pr...200-grams.html

Have to copy and paste that

Now® L-Citrulline - NOW NUTRITION - GNC

I really hope this is what you're looking for. hahahaha

----------


## austinite

Go with Prima.

----------


## ineedauser

I'm pumped to get this little supplement deal together. Any other goodies from your awesome OP that would work in great synergy with what you already have up?

Also, for the post-workout drink. Do you NOT include protein? But just the L-Cysteine and Vitamin C? How much time between the drink, protein, or whatever and your next meal?

----------


## cj111

*Beta Alanine*

Beta-Alanine is a non-essential amino acid found naturally in both foods such as chicken, beef, pork, fish and it naturally occurs in the body. When taken orally, it provides the types of effects that excite scientists and make bodybuilders and other athlete's salivate. In reality, it makes anyone who takes there training seriously start to drool

When beta-alanine enters the muscle cell, it becomes what we call the "rate limiting substrate" to carnosine synthesis. By rate limiting, we mean that without beta-alanine, carnosine does not get produced

Carnosine was discovered in Russia in 1900, but it wasn’t until over 50 years later that the first research on carnosine and its effects on muscle buffering where published. Recently (2003) researchers have been studying Beta-Alanine examining its effects on exercise performance and lean muscle mass. Carnosine on the other hand helps stabilize muscular pH by soaking up hydrogen ions (H+) that are released at an accelerated rate during exercise. Our bodies work to keep our pH in balance by utilizing various buffering systems. Buffers largely work by soaking up H+ to maintain optimal pH balance, which we need to function most effectively. As mentioned above, our muscles function best in a specific pH range. When pH drops below that range, so does muscular performance. By helping to keep us in a more optimal pH range, our muscles can continue to contract forcibly for a longer time.

What does Beta-Alanine do and what scientific studies give evidence to support this?

Much of Beta-Alanine’s effects come through boosting the synthesis of an intramuscular dipeptide (two amino acids) called carnosine. Carnosine is made up of two amino acids, beta-alanine and histidine, and is a powerful intracellular buffer. Carnosine is found in both type 1 and type 2 muscle fibers, though significantly in higher concentrations in type 2 fibers (the fibers we primarily use in high intensity strength workouts and which are most responsive to growth). To function effectively, muscle cells rely on buffers like carnosine to avoid becoming acidic (low pH) during exercise. If you want your muscles to remain strong and maintain powerful contractions, they need to be in an optimal pH range. If they don’t and the pH drops below that optimal level, you have significantly less strength and fatigue more quickly.

You know this is happening when you feel that familiar burn in your muscles or even when you’re lifting heavy and reach muscular failure. Muscle pH has dropped and it’s largely a result of an increase in hydrogen ions (H+) which build up when you break down the high energy compound ATP during exercise. Wouldn’t it be nice to knock out a few more reps? If you had more carnosine in your muscles, you would. Without it, your energy and endurance decline rapidly and your strength suffers. The breakdown of ATP and the subsequent rise in H+ concentrations occurs in our all of our energy systems but is most prevalent in an energy system called glycolysis which also produces lactic acid. Lactic acid releases H+ ions, contributing further to the pool of H+ that’s filling your muscles from the breakdown of ATP. With the presence of H+ pH drops fast as does muscular performance.

Beta-Alanine efficacy is backed by major university, peer-reviewed studies performed on humans and not animals which other products typically base there claims on. The science behind Beta-Alanine is simple, it makes sense and it works.

While Beta-Alanine is largely responsible for the majority of the performance benefits, there are a few other ingredients that may enhance Beta-Alanine, or be enhanced by Beta-Alanine as well as boost a power antioxidant called glutathione that recent research shows may fight cellular fatigue. Some of these supportive ingredients act as direct precursors to the powerful antioxidant, glutathione and some work to support optimal carnosine levels.

N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine (NAC): increases glutathione levels inside the cell which is a power antioxidant that fights cellular fatigue. Interestingly Beta-Alanine has now been shown to increase the synthesis of glutathione by increasing the availability of its precursor cysteine. Beta-Alanine and NAC work perfectly together.

Vitamin E: Vitamin E has been shown to increase carnosine levels more than carnosine alone. Carnosine has been shown to increases Vitamin E antioxidant ability. These two operate hand in hand.

Alpha-Lipoic-Acid: Finalizing this HIGHLY synergistic formula, alpha-lipoic-acid is utilized as a highly versatile antioxidant that boosts other antioxidants like Vitamin E and Glutathione.

Who needs Beta-Alanine and how much should be taken? Are there any side effects or symptoms of deficiency?

You can conclude from the facts given that beta alanine might be one of the most versatile amino acid supplement discovered — whether you're an endurance athlete, bodybuilder, powerlifter, or just someone who wants to get bigger, stronger or leaner.

Remember, it's a simple pathway for success: H+ increases with all types of activity, shutting off muscle contraction.

With beta-alanine we can absorb it, and can literally become "better" at every one of those activities. We can be stronger, we can run faster, we can run longer. We can lift heavier weights for more reps, we can be bigger and leaner. I think the greatest attribute of beta-alanine is that it will benefit all types of athletes — not just bodybuilders and fitness competitors.

Beta-Alanine benefits typically occur in as little as two weeks, although some individuals will notice benefits within one week. As carnosine levels increase, the benefits will follow. The most dramatic results are generally experienced within the 3-4 week range but they don’t stop there. Recent research is now showing carnosine levels continue to increase for a minimum of 12 weeks which is why we recommend staying on Beta-Alanine for at least three months to optimize your carnosine levels. A practical dose of Beta-Alanine should not exceed 10mg/kg per dose which is about 800mg for a guy.

Immediate benefits: Many users experience intense vasodilatation/pumps from the very first dose of Beta-Alanine. Because Beta-Alanine increases carnosine and carnosine is a powerful precursor in generating nitric oxide synthase (a group of enzymes necessary for making the powerful vasodilator nitric oxide), this is an added, immediate benefit of Beta-Alanine.

Dose:
Suggested Dose is between 3-6g a day.

Side Effects

As far as any side effects or symptoms of deficiency some people may notice a tingling sensation on the skin in the first few weeks directly after ingestion that lasts about an hour. Eventually this subsides after a few weeks of supplementation. It is caused by how Beta Alanine binds to nerve receptors. It is not felt by everyone, so it is not a sign of it working or not.


Just figured I would add this, have been supplementing it for 2+ weeks now and I love the stuff.

I obviously didn't type that out, I am not that smart  :Big Grin:

----------


## ineedauser

I also don't see micronized l-arginine anywhere. At Vitamin Shoppe, Amazon, anywhere!

----------


## austinite

> I also don't see micronized l-arginine anywhere. At Vitamin Shoppe, Amazon, anywhere!


GNC has it. Rapid Drive Arginine 5000

----------


## austinite

> *Beta Alanine*
> 
> 
> I obviously didn't type that out, I am not that smart


Thanks cj, a link would have sufficed  :Smilie:  - I'd like to keep this thread about the things that I use, not everything else... easier for me to manage  :Smilie:

----------


## basketballfan22

GNC along with a few other companies make micronized glutamine too.

----------


## ineedauser

Dana Linn Bailey! woooooooooooooo

----------


## ineedauser

You don't agree? Beta-Alanine not good for the pre workout?

----------


## austinite

I try not to repeat myself. This thread is worth reading thoroughly  :Smilie:

----------


## ineedauser

noted. thanks! Found the post... :-) hahaha Appreciate it!

----------


## cj111

My bad, wasn't sure the best route to post that in here :P Seemed worthy to be up in here!

----------


## austinite

:Smilie:  All good man. Def. a great topic!

----------


## ineedauser

GNC Pro Performance® RapidDrive Arginine 5000 - GNC PRO PERFORMANCE - GNC

That's the argigine? Excuse my ignorance, but the supplement facts do not show arginine at all? Other arginine products have them in this facts, but this doesn't. Just curious about the product is all.

----------


## austinite

> GNC Pro Performance® RapidDrive Arginine 5000 - GNC PRO PERFORMANCE - GNC
> 
> That's the argigine? Excuse my ignorance, but the supplement facts do not show arginine at all? Other arginine products have them in this facts, but this doesn't. Just curious about the product is all.


GNC Pro Performance RapidDrive Arginine 5000, Tablets | drugstore.com 

looks like GNC is not carrying it anymore.

----------


## basketballfan22

Deleted question.

----------


## ineedauser

There we go!! The micronized arginine and cit malate are on the way! Wooooo

----------


## austinite

> There we go!! The micronized arginine and cit malate are on the way! Wooooo


Nice! I can't wait for your feedback brother! Stay pumped!

----------


## ineedauser

I have some regular arginine and I get the Cit Malate tomorrow. Gonna use the arginine in he meantime. Only two workouts worth

----------


## austinite

> I have some regular arginine and I get the Cit Malate tomorrow. Gonna use the arginine in he meantime. Only two workouts worth


I'm proud of you for waiting to get the right product. I know you almost settled for less... good work!

----------


## gbrice75

Sub'd Aus. Long time overdue. I need to read this in its entirety!

----------


## ineedauser

Can I still take my potassium pill before bed?


I should also mention that this will all be in addition to my S4/OSTA/Liquid Clen 6 week cycle (Clen is 2 on, 2 off though)

----------


## austinite

> Can I still take my potassium pill before bed?
> 
> 
> I should also mention that this will all be in addition to my S4/OSTA/Liquid Clen 6 week cycle (Clen is 2 on, 2 off though)


Why are you taking potassium?

----------


## basketballfan22

I am reading more about methylcobalamin and looking at injectable forms. From what I gather, methylcobalamin has a higher bioavailability than cyanocobalamin. Do you think doses should differ between the two? Also I read that one should inject subcutaneously (preferably in the buttocks) because it allows for a slow release; while intramuscular injections are absorbed very quickly, and any excess B-12 is eliminated through the urine within an hour of injection. Have your read anything on that?

----------


## austinite

> I am reading more about methylcobalamin and looking at injectable forms. From what I gather, methylcobalamin has a higher bioavailability than cyanocobalamin. Do you think doses should differ between the two? Also I read that one should inject subcutaneously (preferably in the buttocks) because it allows for a slow release; while intramuscular injections are absorbed very quickly, and any excess B-12 is eliminated through the urine within an hour of injection. Have your read anything on that?


Doses probably would, yes. I'm very excited to try it myself. Vettester was the one that alerted me to it's superiority. And yes, B12 is like Vitamin C with excess. Whatever doesn't bind is excreted. SubQ injections are fine, just takes longer to absorb. I do IM because I mix it with my gear. 

Here's a link vettester shared that I think you'll find to be a great read:

Cyanocobalamin Versus Methylcobalamin

----------


## basketballfan22

> Doses probably would, yes. I'm very excited to try it myself. Vettester was the one that alerted me to it's superiority. And yes, B12 is like Vitamin C with excess. Whatever doesn't bind is excreted. SubQ injections are fine, just takes longer to absorb. I do IM because I mix it with my gear. 
> 
> Here's a link vettester shared that I think you'll find to be a great read:
> 
> Cyanocobalamin Versus Methylcobalamin


Haha, that was one of the sites I read. Thanks for the link though. Do you have any idea how I should adjust the dose then? Subcutaneous injections shouldn't affect dosing protocol though, right?

----------


## basketballfan22

Also where are you planning on purchasing your methylcobalamin?

----------


## austinite

> Haha, that was one of the sites I read. Thanks for the link though. Do you have any idea how I should adjust the dose then? Subcutaneous injections shouldn't affect dosing protocol though, right?


yeah, subQ or IM should be the same dose. What's in question is Methyl vs Cyan dosing. That is still not answered for me yet, but I'm on it. (Probably over-thinking this one)

And yes, I plan on purchasing Methyl but have no idea where yet.

----------


## ineedauser

> Why are you taking potassium?


Also forgot Taurine. 

To help not get cramps from the Liquid Clen . I didn't take the Potassium last night though

----------


## ineedauser

I am curious about the kind of energy this PWO will give me. Most pre workouts don't do much for me

----------


## austinite

^ different for everyone. Give it a go and let us know! Because I use it regularly, I probably have already adjusted to the "energy" level. I would most likely appreciate it more if I came off the protocol.

----------


## basketballfan22

> yeah, subQ or IM should be the same dose. What's in question is Methyl vs Cyan dosing. That is still not answered for me yet, but I'm on it. (Probably over-thinking this one)
> 
> And yes, I plan on purchasing Methyl but have no idea where yet.


Yeah, I was just making sure the only variable as far as dosing is concerned is the bioavailability and not the injection site.

Also here is one site I found. You can purchase human grade hCG too; although there are far cheaper options out there.

http://usvitamininjections.com/methylcobalamin

----------


## jwh7699

I saw that you mention taking L-Tyrosine before bed. Is there a benefit to taking it then? Thanks!!

----------


## ineedauser

Is it ok to take the Vitamin C and Methionine with my post workout shake?

Vega One and Whey Protein

----------


## cj111

Hey austin, I just noticed you don't take arg before bed. Apparently it raises GH levels when taken before bed. I've been taking it at night 1gram with my zma.

Any reason you don't ?

----------


## austinite

> Hey austin, I just noticed you don't take arg before bed. Apparently it raises GH levels when taken before bed. I've been taking it at night 1gram with my zma.
> 
> Any reason you don't ?


I workout super late, usually in bed 30 minutes after. So my pre-workout dose is my last dose for the evening  :Smilie:  Sometimes if I cant sleep and end up staying way later, Ill take a couple grams before bed.

----------


## cj111

Ah right. My citrulline should be here in a day or so looking forward to adding it into the shit mix.

----------


## austinite

> Ah right. My citrulline should be here in a day or so looking forward to adding it into the shit mix.


Sweeeeeeeeeeet. Update here with your opinion on it!

----------


## austinite

> I saw that you mention taking L-Tyrosine before bed. Is there a benefit to taking it then? Thanks!!


It's a great recovery amino acid. I take it before bed because I workout late and it helps heal while you sleep. 



> Is it ok to take the Vitamin C and Methionine with my post workout shake?
> 
> Vega One and Whey Protein


Sure. Always heavy up on C after workout.

----------


## armyranger516862006

This is just awesome! Thanks for all this Austinite! I am going to be reading this over and over to pick what i need lol! Thanks again bud!

----------


## basketballfan22

> Hey austin, I just noticed you don't take arg before bed. Apparently it raises GH levels when taken before bed. I've been taking it at night 1gram with my zma.
> 
> Any reason you don't ?


Very useful information. Thanks cj.

----------


## austinite

Yup. This is the study where that excerpt was posted in the original post.

http://forums.steroid.com/rate-your-supplements/528312-article-arginine-growth-hormone-hgh.html

----------


## basketballfan22

> Yup. This is the study where that excerpt was posted in the original post.
> 
> http://forums.steroid.com/rate-your-supplements/528312-article-arginine-growth-hormone-hgh.html


God I love you austinite. Always helping me out. Thanks for the post. I will definitely read it. I love being able to read information from the original source.

----------


## basketballfan22

Also to clarify my above post. I tend to use the words "love" and "hate" rather haphazardly. Most of the time I don't actually mean those words as they are meant to be used, so don't worry austinite I'm not gay (not that there is anything wrong with that). :Smilie:

----------


## austinite

lmao. Well thanks for the clarification! Another Seinfeld quote above. haha.

----------


## ineedauser

Ok, first take on the PWO. Slightly more vascular than normal... But I didn't feel jittery or loaded with a sugar rush feeling. So far, I like it!

Question: should I take all the other goodies everyday? Just the PWO only on workout days?

----------


## FONZY007

Started taking a few and man the vascularity for sure is starting to pop...

----------


## austinite

> Ok, first take on the PWO. Slightly more vascular than normal... But I didn't feel jittery or loaded with a sugar rush feeling. So far, I like it!
> 
> Question: should I take all the other goodies everyday? Just the PWO only on workout days?


 Take them daily, on or off days. It gets better over time. 




> Started taking a few and man the vascularity for sure is starting to pop...


Good to hear Fonz! Keep it up!

ps... MRM brand pregnenolone is not the best. DHEA is good and micronized but I would look for an alternative brand for your pregnenolone.

----------


## basketballfan22

> lmao. Well thanks for the clarification! Another Seinfeld quote above. haha.


_Seinfeld_ = greatest show ever! I can sneak a quote in almost any situation, lol.

----------


## ineedauser

Even the pre workout dosing? Won't that give me tons of energy that I can't use?

----------


## basketballfan22

> Ok, first take on the PWO. Slightly more vascular than normal... But I didn't feel jittery or loaded with a sugar rush feeling. So far, I like it!
> 
> Question: should I take all the other goodies everyday? Just the PWO only on workout days?


One of the very few questions I have not thought about! How does your non-training day protocol look like austinite? Do you just take everything like you would normally? For example because you work out at night (let's say at 10), you would still take your pre-workout supplements at 9:30 and post-workout supplements at 11 on your non-training days.

----------


## austinite

We need to be careful when talking about "Energy". I don't want to mislead anyone, but no one really gets that "BAM! HOLY CRAP I'VE GOT SO MUCH ENERGY". When you're supplementing to increase energy levels, your notability is more likely going to be in the beginning stages of supplementation. Once you become accustomed to the feeling, it becomes the "norm". Where you really appreciate it is when you come OFF the supplements and notice some fatigue or lack of energy. If you're doing good in the gym/workouts, it's important not to underestimate your energy level, otherwise you will be searching for "more" for the rest of your life. 

I don't like anything that makes me "jittery". Those types of boosters make me lose focus. All I concentrate on is the rapid heartbeat which gets annoying. Counter productive if you ask me. The key is to slowly build up endurance, and most importantly for us lifters, is Muscle cell endurance. This is essentially what we're doing with the vascularity stack. Over time, someone with your exact stats, would not be able to lift as much as you, because of your Amino intake. 

Always remember, we do not want to focus on instant gratification. Slow and steady over time will yield better results, especially mentally, because your expectations won't suffer. What comes up must come down... so if you're slow and steady, you will build a quality base for your workouts. If you take something that gives you that instant boost, you can expect to crash pretty hard afterwards.

----------


## basketballfan22

> We need to be careful when talking about "Energy". I don't want to mislead anyone, but no one really gets that "BAM! HOLY CRAP I'VE GOT SO MUCH ENERGY". When you're supplementing to increase energy levels, your notability is more likely going to be in the beginning stages of supplementation. Once you become accustomed to the feeling, it becomes the "norm". Where you really appreciate it is when you come OFF the supplements and notice some fatigue or lack of energy. If you're doing good in the gym/workouts, it's important not to underestimate your energy level, otherwise you will be searching for "more" for the rest of your life. 
> 
> I don't like anything that makes me "jittery". Those types of boosters make me lose focus. All I concentrate on is the rapid heartbeat which gets annoying. Counter productive if you ask me. The key is to slowly build up endurance, and most importantly for us lifters, is Muscle cell endurance. This is essentially what we're doing with the vascularity stack. Over time, someone with your exact stats, would not be able to lift as much as you, because of your Amino intake. 
> 
> Always remember, we do not want to focus on instant gratification. Slow and steady over time will yield better results, especially mentally, because your expectations won't suffer. What comes up must come down... so if you're slow and steady, you will build a quality base for your workouts. If you take something that gives you that instant boost, you can expect to crash pretty hard afterwards.


Yeah, I didn't think your protocol gave the same effect as if you took a lot of those pre-workout supplements (e.g. 1.m.r). Now this is one of the few times I need to have my hand held in regards to your response, lol. I will take this as a "yes" to my question? Also you mentioned coming "OFF" the supplements. Now I know some people like to take time off from taking ANY supplements then go back on them, but I have never done this. Do you recommend taking time off from these supplements, or were you just referencing the noticeable effect you will feel if you ever come off them?

----------


## austinite

> One of the very few questions I have not thought about! How does your non-training day protocol look like austinite? Do you just take everything like you would normally? For example because you work out at night (let's say at 10), you would still take your pre-workout supplements at 9:30 and post-workout supplements at 11 on your non-training days.


Whats a "non-training" day that you speak of? haha, jk.

The amount of daily intake does not change, only difference is that I don't take the high doses pre workout, obviously since there is no workout. Just spread it out.

----------


## austinite

> Yeah, I didn't think your protocol gave the same effect as if you took a lot of those pre-workout supplements (e.g. 1.m.r). Now this is one of the few times I need to have my hand held in regards to your response, lol. I will take this as a "yes" to my question? Also you mentioned coming "OFF" the supplements. Now I know some people like to take time off from taking ANY supplements then go back on them, but I have never done this. Do you recommend taking time off from these supplements, or were you just referencing the noticeable effect you will feel if you ever come off them?


Correct, I was only referencing how to know it's working. There is no need to come off. I never come off. I've changed doses over time, but never came off. These aren't supplements that could cause damage over time, so you can stay on.

----------


## basketballfan22

One of the reasons I asked my question was that in the "Creatine FAQ" thread, it is recommended that one takes creatine monohydrate after his/her workout; but on non-training days one should take creatine in the morning. I was curious if timing should be altered on non-training days for any of your supplements.

----------


## basketballfan22

> Whats a "non-training" day that you speak of? haha, jk.
> 
> The amount of daily intake does not change, only difference is that I don't take the high doses pre workout, obviously since there is no workout. Just spread it out.


Cool, thanks.

----------


## austinite

> One of the reasons I asked my question was that in the "Creatine FAQ" thread, it is recommended that one takes creatine monohydrate after his/her workout; but on non-training days one should take creatine in the morning. I was curious if timing should be altered on non-training days for any of your supplements.


I don't do creatine but I get the logic here. No changes for me.

----------


## basketballfan22

I think I learned that I need to give you time to answer questions before giving you more, lol. You clearly answered mine, but I quickly responded to your first post before your response to mine went up. Sorry man.

----------


## austinite

> I think I learned that I need to give you time to answer questions before giving you more, lol. You clearly answered mine, but I quickly responded to your first post before your response to mine went up. Sorry man.


lol. It's all good. Turned out to be a decent thread. Good to see everyone getting their supplements.

----------


## basketballfan22

> lol. It's all good. Turned out to be a decent thread. Good to see everyone getting their supplements.


That's an understatement. I haven't gotten mine yet since I am strapped for cash, but I should be working here shortly. Once I am, then I will update this thread with any results I see. I have the protocol neatly entered in an Excel file along with the prices and hyperlinks to the websites I plan to purchase them from. In other words I am very prepared to start.

----------


## austinite

> That's an understatement. I haven't gotten mine yet since I am strapped for cash, but I should be working here shortly. Once I am, then I will update this thread with any results I see. I have the protocol neatly entered in an Excel file along with the prices and hyperlinks to the websites I plan to purchase them from. In other words I am very prepared to start.


Exciting. I cant wait  :Smilie:

----------


## basketballfan22

Austinite, do you take any of these supplements on an empty stomach? I know certain vitamins and supplements should be taken with food (e.g. vitamin E), while others should be taken on an empty stomach. I imagine you don't eat when you take your pre-workout supplements (sans a piece of fruit) since it is so close to working out, but I was curious about the other ones.

----------


## austinite

Sometimes. an empty stomach is kind of a loose term. But for me, it's an hour before eating or 2 hours after. I only worry about fat solubles, like Vitamin D and DHEA (not 7-ketoDHEA), E, etc... My meals arent really ever timed, but I do eat before and after training. usually an hour before training and almost immediately after. (helps me sleep to eat a big meal before bed)

----------


## ineedauser

> Whats a "non-training" day that you speak of? haha, jk.
> 
> The amount of daily intake does not change, only difference is that I don't take the high doses pre workout, obviously since there is no workout. Just spread it out.


So if you don't take the high dose pre workout, what do you take in place of it?

Also, the "easy to get" supplements for your pre workout vs the "tough to get prescribed" pre workout. Big difference in quality for energy and vascularity? Certainly seems the well being effect is in the prescribed supplements favor. But what about everything else?

----------


## basketballfan22

The only pre-workout supplement in austinite's published protocol that is prescribed is Cialis; you can easily obtain that from AR-R though. I had no difficulty finding all of the supplements that he listed.

----------


## ineedauser

> The only pre-workout supplement in austinite's published protocol that is prescribed is Cialis; you can easily obtain that from AR-R though. I had no difficulty finding all of the supplements that he listed.


How do you like that combination of supplements? I really like all those benefits

----------


## tdoe11

Earlier I ordered up some citrulline, arginine and methyl b12 via some more good advice from mr Austinite. I checked vitamin shoppe then eBay. eBay was literally half the price on some of them free shipping. I think I saved almost 50$! I'm going to dose 5000mcgs b12 daily and see how I feel, 2 grams cit and 1 gram arginine daily. I will keep you all updated.

----------


## austinite

> Earlier I ordered up some citrulline, arginine and methyl b12 via some more good advice from mr Austinite. I checked vitamin shoppe then eBay. eBay was literally half the price on some of them free shipping. I think I saved almost 50$! I'm going to dose 5000mcgs b12 daily and see how I feel, 2 grams cit and 1 gram arginine daily. I will keep you all updated.


Outstanding tdoe! Nothing like saving money! Can't wait to hear your feedback!

----------


## basketballfan22

> How do you like that combination of supplements? I really like all those benefits


Unfortunately, I haven't purchased them yet. I have the websites though where I will purchase everything once I have the funds.

----------


## basketballfan22

> Earlier I ordered up some citrulline, arginine and methyl b12 via some more good advice from mr Austinite. I checked vitamin shoppe then eBay. eBay was literally half the price on some of them free shipping. I think I saved almost 50$! I'm going to dose 5000mcgs b12 daily and see how I feel, 2 grams cit and 1 gram arginine daily. I will keep you all updated.


5000 mcgs? I assume you are taking an oral version of methylcobalamin then?

----------


## austinite

^ yep. Sublingual. He purchased the one that makes me super hungry in the original post.

----------


## basketballfan22

Yeah, I assumed he was taking the Jarrow brand you talked about. Austinite, do you think the injectable methylcobalamin will make you really hungry too? I am still bulking (slowly but surely), so an increase in hunger is not a bad thing for me.

----------


## austinite

> Yeah, I assumed he was taking the Jarrow brand you talked about. Austinite, do you think the injectable methylcobalamin will make you really hungry too? I am still bulking (slowly but surely), so an increase in hunger is not a bad thing for me.


I assume so. And I'm very curious to find out. Are you gonna give Jarrow a try first?

----------


## tdoe11

> Outstanding tdoe! Nothing like saving money! Can't wait to hear your feedback!


Gotta love eBay. Getting a killer deal kinda makes buying stuff fun  :Wink: . Thank you again dude

----------


## tdoe11

> 5000 mcgs? I assume you are taking an oral version of methylcobalamin then?


Yes sir. I'll see how the 5000 treats me for the first few days then possibly go to EOD. Jarrow like austinite said

----------


## FRDave

If I take fish oil 3x per day (breakfast/lunch/dinner), should I take 1 capsule of vitamin E 3x per day as well?

I have NOW E-400 - 100% natural mixed tocopherols (400iu per capsule). 

Also, I been taking 100mg of B6 daily. Is daily ok and does time matter? Should I take daily as lunch with my b12?


Thanks in advance,
Dave

----------


## basketballfan22

> I assume so. And I'm very curious to find out. Are you gonna give Jarrow a try first?


No, I am going straight to the injectable kind. Remember that link I provided earlier? That is what I plan on getting. The 30 mL vial is ****ing expensive ($289.99); but at 1000 mcg per week, it comes out to $1.38 per day. Still it is by far the most expensive supplement I plan on taking. Once you update your opinion on pycnogenol, then pycnogenol will be my second most expensive supplement at $1.13 per day.

----------


## basketballfan22

I plan to inject subcutaneously in my buttocks because it has the slowest release time (which is important since I will only inject one per week) while still being absorbed efficiently a la intramuscularly.

----------


## austinite

^ Might be a disappointing update on pycnogenol. I'll update in the next couple days, almost done with second bottle.

----------


## basketballfan22

> ^ Might be a disappointing update on pycnogenol. I'll update in the next couple days, almost done with second bottle.


Looking forward to it. :Smilie:

----------


## ineedauser

> ^ Might be a disappointing update on pycnogenol. I'll update in the next couple days, almost done with second bottle.


How disappointing? Should I stop taking it?

----------


## austinite

> If I take fish oil 3x per day (breakfast/lunch/dinner), should I take 1 capsule of vitamin E 3x per day as well?
> 
> I have NOW E-400 - 100% natural mixed tocopherols (400iu per capsule). 
> 
> Also, I been taking 100mg of B6 daily. Is daily ok and does time matter? Should I take daily as lunch with my b12?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Dave


You can just take your vitamin E with your breakfast and Dinner doses of Omega 3. Theres really no need for that daily dose of B6.

----------


## ineedauser

Second update, day 4: more vascular throughout the day. I really dig what's going on!

----------


## MajorPectorial

> Yes sir. I'll see how the 5000 treats me for the first few days then possibly go to EOD. Jarrow like austinite said


I imagine with that 5000 if u scroll down further u fan get ur b12 n e in the same cap. ;-)

----------


## MajorPectorial

Hi.aust,love this thread. Ordered a few things from it. What would be absolutely top notch amazeballs would be;

listed in order of say by daily intake. Or. Broke down into a basic

Am list/afternoon list/pmlist/pre wo list/post wo list

Importance order prioritized with amount

Maybw even lil recipee shots for am.pm etcetc.

----------


## austinite

^ Justin. I haven't done much "Stacking options" yet. But there are some listed in this thread. Eventually I will post different stacks for different purposes. But for now, I've described all the supplements I use so that everyone can make more informed decisions while stacking. Stay tuned, stack options will be coming soon.

----------


## Java Man

I'm doing the protocol by gdevine in another thread and taking arg/cit as recommended here. Going to be adding b12 methyl inj next week. My God I can't believe the spped that I'm returning to the shape I was in back in 03 when I quit working out. Going in 6 month back in after 10yrs off and I look and feel 30 again.

I mentioned Aus and gd by name but everyone here has been great with advice etc. Proves you never stop learning and I'm not exactly new at this. Thanks Aus. Vascularity and definition is already getting crazy  :Smilie:

----------


## austinite

> I'm doing the protocol by gdevine in another thread and taking arg/cit as recommended here. Going to be adding b12 methyl inj next week. My God I can't believe the spped that I'm returning to the shape I was in back in 03 when I quit working out. Going in 6 month back in after 10yrs off and I look and feel 30 again.
> 
> I mentioned Aus and gd by name but everyone here has been great with advice etc. Proves you never stop learning and I'm not exactly new at this. Thanks Aus. Vascularity and definition is already getting crazy


Awesome, great to hear Java Man! PLEASE keep me posted right here, I want to hear about your progress. Sound like you're doing great so far. And thanks for the plugs! haha. Much appreciated.

----------


## MajorPectorial

> ^ Justin. I haven't done much "Stacking options" yet. But there are some listed in this thread. Eventually I will post different stacks for different purposes. But for now, I've described all the supplements I use so that everyone can make more informed decisions while stacking. Stay tuned, stack options will be coming soon.


Thanks aus ive already ordered half a kilo cit. Ill order arg soon. Had to by kilo of msm for my shoulders is it me or does it taste like chemical waste lolz. N really appreciate all ur hard work on this. Really do.

If theres any thing you want me to put together for you or i can help with id be happy to take some workload off u. Just pm for mt email.




> I'm doing the protocol by gdevine in another thread and taking arg/cit as recommended here. Going to be adding b12 methyl inj next week. My God I can't believe the spped that I'm returning to the shape I was in back in 03 when I quit working out. Going in 6 month back in after 10yrs off and I look and feel 30 again.
> 
> I mentioned Aus and gd by name but everyone here has been great with advice etc. Proves you never stop learning and I'm not exactly new at this. Thanks Aus. Vascularity and definition is already getting crazy


fantastic to hear mate. Like u i took 10loooooonnnnnng years out. Im still working hard as hell and am in better (muscle wise) shape than ive ever been!!! keep it up. Wooohoooo!

----------


## austinite

> Thanks aus ive already ordered half a kilo cit. Ill order arg soon. Had to by kilo of msm for my shoulders is it me or does it taste like chemical waste lolz. N really appreciate all ur hard work on this. Really do.
> 
> If theres any thing you want me to put together for you or i can help with id be happy to take some workload off u. Just pm for mt email.
> 
> 
> 
> fantastic to hear mate. Like u i took 10loooooonnnnnng years out. Im still working hard as hell and am in better (muscle wise) shape than ive ever been!!! keep it up. Wooohoooo!


lol, yes, they taste like garbage. Just throw in some drink mix. I use orange mixer... 5 calories and no sugar. tastes fine...

----------


## FRDave

Any brand of Maca and Citrulline you recommend? 

Dave

----------


## austinite

> Any brand of Maca and Citrulline you recommend? 
> 
> Dave


Peruvian Nature for Maca and Swanson L-Citrulline Malate.

----------


## FRDave

> Peruvian Nature for Maca and Swanson L-Citrulline Malate.


I found 1lb bags of raw organic Peruvian Maca root power on amazon and eBay pretty cheap. Would something like this work?

----------


## austinite

Sorry, I meant Peruvian NATURAL. You can find tabs easy. This is the one I use, but obviously you don't want to pay retail, so just find it cheaper. 

Peruvian Naturals Maca

----------


## ineedauser

Austinite! The micronized arginine you suggested is unavailable! My order was cancelled! :-( I don't know what to get now.

----------


## austinite

> Austinite! The micronized arginine you suggested is unavailable! My order was cancelled! :-( I don't know what to get now.


looks like they switched to powder form. But its stil available on Amazon in pill form, look at the last link...


GNC Pro Performance® RapidDrive Arginine 5000- Fruit Punch - GNC PRO PERFORMANCE - GNC

GNC Pro Performance RapidDrive Arginine 5000, Unflavored | drugstore.com

Amazon.com: GNC Pro Performance Rapiddrive Arginine 5000 - 30 Servings 120 Caps: Health & Personal Care

----------


## ineedauser

That's what I bought. It's unavailable according to Trendi USA

----------


## austinite

^ from all those sources? Get the amazon, it shows available bro.

----------


## ineedauser

I know... I waited 6 days just for them to cancel my order

----------


## chi

so aus I read that you recommend L-theanine for anxiety and alertness thiIs will benefit me greatly since anxiety is something I have struggled with since my mid 20's and now into my mid 30's. I don't share this often but if I need help have to so what do you recommend for mental fogginess, overall comprehension, and anxiety besides L-theanine? I feel like I am on the border of being mentally disabled and I am not being overly dramatic either. It stresses me out since I excelled at a young age when it came to retaining knowledge and comprehension as well as being very quick thinking and sharp. Feel like a dulled number 2 pencil

----------


## Java Man

> Thanks aus ive already ordered half a kilo cit. Ill order arg soon. Had to by kilo of msm for my shoulders is it me or does it taste like chemical waste lolz. N really appreciate all ur hard work on this. Really do.
> 
> If theres any thing you want me to put together for you or i can help with id be happy to take some workload off u. Just pm for mt email.
> 
> 
> 
> fantastic to hear mate. Like u i took 10loooooonnnnnng years out. Im still working hard as hell and am in better (muscle wise) shape than ive ever been!!! keep it up. Wooohoooo!


Thanks  :Wink:  yeah I didn't think I'd ever be in shape again. I'm not as defined as I was was but bigger and stronger now. With the great info I'm getting here I can tell I'll soon be in the best shape of my life too. A few more months and I need to hit abs hard. I'm going to do the 'so you want abs..' Routine as soon as I feel my core is ready (back pain due to the pear shape I had going lol) but I'm motivated as hell  :Wink:

----------


## Java Man

> Awesome, great to hear Java Man! PLEASE keep me posted right here, I want to hear about your progress. Sound like you're doing great so far. And thanks for the plugs! haha. Much appreciated.


Lol as if you need it  :Smilie:  I have a progress thread. I only post to it every month or so tho. Cool to see the time lapse changes kind of like drawing a stick man kicking a ball in page flip animation. I'll put up a pic here of me in dec 2012 and tonight, after I take that one. I need to take my arg and cit first to plug the combo haha.

----------


## human project

> so aus I read that you recommend L-theanine for anxiety and alertness thiIs will benefit me greatly since anxiety is something I have struggled with since my mid 20's and now into my mid 30's. I don't share this often but if I need help have to so what do you recommend for mental fogginess, overall comprehension, and anxiety besides L-theanine? I feel like I am on the border of being mentall disabled and I am not being over dramatic. It stresses me out since I excelled at a young age when it came to retaining knowledge and comprehension as well as being very quick thinking and sharp. Feel like a dulled number 2 pencil


Talk to your doc about aderall.... Do you think you may have add??? Many times anxiety can be mistaken for mind racing which is a common problem for people with add.... Also many people don't developed these issues until later in life while some grow out of them... I still think its messed up how many 1st graders are on the drug tho

----------


## Java Man

http://forums.steroid.com/members-cy...ml#post6548275

Shameless self plug! J/k. You said post progress here. Lol. I won't make this thread my bitch like that. There's where I update my progress. Much of that is due to the supplement advice here (no not taking about juice!). Blood results will show how much if any the lipids have been controlled since 5 wks ago. Draw yesterday.

----------


## chi

> Talk to your doc about aderall.... Do you think you may have add??? Many times anxiety can be mistaken for mind racing which is a common problem for people with add.... Also many people don't developed these issues until later in life while some grow out of them... I still think its messed up how many 1st graders are on the drug tho



HP thanks for the input I never thought to really consider this but I will now because I have to say my patience is little next to nothing not to mention my attention span. I do find my mind racing and feeling overwhelmed very quickly but I just attributed it to being anxious. Learning and completeing tasks has become much more difficult as I gotten older unless I have a big personal interest in the results or outcome. Its up and down really but down more then up that is for sure. I am sure my doctor can chat with me about this and see if it is a problem. I will do my own research of course and talk to the doc.

Is this something you've had a problem with?

----------


## krugerr

Just spotted this Aust. Thought it might interest yours little. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-22614522

----------


## krugerr

> Sorry I missed this post.
> 
> *Vitamin A:* I use this once per week. Mainly because it helps against bacteria or infections. You simply heal faster with this vitamin. Even broken bones heal faster. But it has more benefit to it like vision. Mainly at night. This is why Mom always said "Eat your carrots, good for your vision!". It's also good for bones and teeth. And the liver loves Vitamin A. I take 25,000 iu every Sunday. Talk about needing to update my list.



Hey Aust, is there a reason that you dont dose this daily? And only superdose once a week? Im thinking of picking up some 8000IU tabs as they're super cheap.

----------


## austinite

> so aus I read that you recommend L-theanine for anxiety and alertness thiIs will benefit me greatly since anxiety is something I have struggled with since my mid 20's and now into my mid 30's. I don't share this often but if I need help have to so what do you recommend for mental fogginess, overall comprehension, and anxiety besides L-theanine? I feel like I am on the border of being mentally disabled and I am not being overly dramatic either. It stresses me out since I excelled at a young age when it came to retaining knowledge and comprehension as well as being very quick thinking and sharp. Feel like a dulled number 2 pencil


You know, OTC supps can certainly help. And it's the route I would go before getting on any prescription. It's always worth a try. You could increase your serotonin production by supplementing with L-Tryptophan in the morning and around lunchtime. Just don't take it before bed (even though it will help you sleep, you may develop nightmares). 

Hope to see you get out f this rut.

----------


## austinite

> Just spotted this Aust. Thought it might interest yours little. 
> 
> BBC News - Vitamin C kills drug-resistant TB in lab tests


Very interesting. I'd love to see the actual study. 



> Hey Aust, is there a reason that you dont dose this daily? And only superdose once a week? Im thinking of picking up some 8000IU tabs as they're super cheap.


Keeps working for over a week. Long long life. Daily dosing is ok but not needed.

----------


## chi

> You know, OTC supps can certainly help. And it's the route I would go before getting on any prescription. It's always worth a try. You could increase your serotonin production by supplementing with L-Tryptophan in the morning and around lunchtime. Just don't take it before bed (even though it will help you sleep, you may develop nightmares). 
> 
> Hope to see you get out f this rut.




Thanks i will add that to the shopping list along with the rest of the supps. Hopefully by next month I will be have everything on hand.

----------


## krugerr

> Very interesting. I'd love to see the actual study.
> 
> Keeps working for over a week. Long long life. Daily dosing is ok but not needed.


Perfect answer lol. Thanks mate. Ill follow your lead and dose weekly then. Cheers!

----------


## basketballfan22

As I have been seeing threads about leucine, I wanted your opinion on it. I know it is one of the three branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs), and it aids in protein synthesis. Is there a reason you don't supplement with it? I currently don't supplement with any BCAAs.

----------


## austinite

> As I have been seeing threads about leucine, I wanted your opinion on it. I know it is one of the three branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs), and it aids in protein synthesis. Is there a reason you don't supplement with it? I currently don't supplement with any BCAAs.


I'm practicing my podcasting so *here's an audio reply*. If you can't hear it let me know. Planning on podcasting a few times a month soon. Still can't figure out how to make audio not so choppy.

----------


## basketballfan22

I heard it perfectly man. There was a little weird background noise that I suspect is something technical (the choppiness that you were referring to), but it was by no means a distraction. That was a great reply though. It saves a lot of time too because it would have taken a lot of time (and typos) to type up.

----------


## basketballfan22

On a side note, that was not how I imagined your voice, lol.

----------


## austinite

Cool. I think I'm gonna look into some sort of noise filter.

----------


## austinite

> On a side note, that was not how I imagined your voice, lol.


lol. Yeah I don't sound like my AVI. haha.

----------


## basketballfan22

Here are a couple of links to sites that list foods high in leucine. With the whey protein isolate, eggs, egg whites, and cottage cheese I eat, I think I get plenty of leucine (> 10 grams).

Foods highest in Leucine
http://www.sportsdietitians.com.au/r...on_General.pdf

----------


## austinite

> Here are a couple of links to sites that list foods high in leucine. With the whey protein isolate, eggs, egg whites, and cottage cheese I eat, I think I get plenty of leucine (> 10 grams).
> 
> Foods highest in Leucine
> http://www.sportsdietitians.com.au/r...on_General.pdf


 :Smilie:  I agree.

----------


## basketballfan22

> lol. Yeah I don't sound like my AVI. haha.


Lmao. Yeah maybe that is why I didn't imagine your voice that way. You mentioned that you plan to podcast a few times per month, may I ask what you plan to podcast on? Are you just going to answer many of the questions that are asked here in more detail?

----------


## Java Man

> lol. Yeah I don't sound like my AVI. haha.


Lol. Funny how we associate things online. I know youre not female but I got the same impression. 'oh wow his voice is lower than I imagined it' haha. Cool idea. Sounded fine to me other than the volume was too low to hear on my android unless I put it right up tip my ear. Can you increase the recording gain level a bit on future casts?

----------


## austinite

> Lmao. Yeah maybe that is why I didn't imagine your voice that way. You mentioned that you plan to podcast a few times per month, may I ask what you plan to podcast on? Are you just going to answer many of the questions that are asked here in more detail?


lmao. Answering questions will certainly be a part of it. I'm going to discuss the same stuff we do here, research more supplements and talk about them. Maybe limit 2 to 3 items per podcast and then answer questions after. If it's a hit I'll do it more often. A lot easier to just talk it out than to type. Besides, my fingers are too fat. Backspace is worn out.

----------


## austinite

> Lol. Funny how we associate things online. I know youre not female but I got the same impression. 'oh wow his voice is lower than I imagined it' haha. Cool idea. Sounded fine to me other than the volume was too low to hear on my android unless I put it right up tip my ear. Can you increase the recording gain level a bit on future casts?


I think so. I'm using "Audacity" to record, it has soooo many options I'm lost. lol, but Ill get used to it.

----------


## basketballfan22

> lmao. Answering questions will certainly be a part of it. I'm going to discuss the same stuff we do here, research more supplements and talk about them. Maybe limit 2 to 3 items per podcast and then answer questions after. If it's a hit I'll do it more often. A lot easier to just talk it out than to type. Besides, my fingers are too fat. Backspace is worn out.


Awesome. Another thing I will be on the lookout for in this thread. I suspect it will be quite popular, and with its popularity will come a lot of questions. Here is my preemptive apology, "I'm sorry," lol.

----------


## bdos

Great post austin I stopped by my local chemist last night asked if they had L-arginine and some other stuff she looked at me like i asked her for a years supply of test and told me i was ruining my body.

----------


## austinite

> Great post austin I stopped by my local chemist last night asked if they had L-arginine and some other stuff she looked at me like i asked her for a years supply of test and told me i was ruining my body.


LOL! Most are clueless and uneducated about this stuff. Just get some online!

----------


## bdos

> LOL! Most are clueless and uneducated about this stuff. Just get some online!


Surfing the web as we type, i wont be going back there anytime soon.

----------


## cj111

I just picked up a bag of GPLC, when is the best time to take that stuff? 

On a side note, holy shit it stinks, I literally opened the bag and then gagged. My gf thought there was a dead animal in the house

----------


## austinite

^ lol. Take it preworkout. What brand?

----------


## cj111

Just from the company I get all my bulk stuff from.

Is it supposed to smell so bad?

----------


## austinite

> Just from the company I get all my bulk stuff from.
> 
> Is it supposed to smell so bad?


Raw? yeah it will stink. What dose you planning?

----------


## cj111

> What dose you planning?


Thats where you come in my good man!

What do you recommend

----------


## austinite

> Thats where you come in my good man!
> 
> What do you recommend


Start with 2 grams and work your way up to 8 grams, or if you feel discomfort, which ever comes first  :Smilie:

----------


## cj111

Right on then, I got my citrulline malate in today also, tooker with my arg before the gym, man that shit works wonders. I'm not even that lean right now and veins were poppin up like weeds

----------


## austinite

> Right on then, I got my citrulline malate in today also, tooker with my arg before the gym, man that shit works wonders. I'm not even that lean right now and veins were poppin up like weeds


That's awesome man. It get's better over time. Keep me posted on GPLC please.

----------


## cj111

Oh also, what kinda discomfort we talking here with the GPLC?
Just from reading about it, it seems pretty amazing, even if it does half the things they claim it does.

----------


## austinite

> Oh also, what kinda discomfort we talking here with the GPLC?
> Just from reading about it, it seems pretty amazing, even if it does half the things they claim it does.


I ran it over 10 grams and experienced some cramping. Screwed up my workouts bigtime. But so long as you stay away from that "zone" you'll benefit from it. It's good stuff.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> On a side note, that was not how I imagined your voice, lol.



That wasn't him it was a voice double, he talks just like you'd expect from his pics.

----------


## basketballfan22

> That wasn't him it was a voice double, he talks just like you'd expect from his pics.


That explains it!

----------


## basketballfan22

While we are on the topic of carnitine, I was wondering whether or not you are still supplementing with it? I know you don't believe in the recent studies linking it to atherosclerosis, but I am still curious. If you supplement with lysine and methionine is it really necessary to supplement with carnitine too? I know carnitine is a compound biosynthesized from lysine and methionine so that is why I ask.

----------


## austinite

> While we are on the topic of carnitine, I was wondering whether or not you are still supplementing with it? I know you don't believe in the recent studies linking it to atherosclerosis, but I am still curious. If you supplement with lysine and methionine is it really necessary to supplement with carnitine too? I know carnitine is a compound biosynthesized from lysine and methionine so that is why I ask.


Yes, I was on 3 grams of L-Carnitine Liquid oral daily forever and now I'm up to 6 grams. Yes, you still benefit from Lysine and Methionine. I'll post a follow up on Carnitine in the original post and explain why tomorrow.

----------


## basketballfan22

> Yes, I was on 3 grams of L-Carnitine Liquid oral daily forever and now I'm up to 6 grams. Yes, you still benefit from Lysine and Methionine. I'll post a follow up on Carnitine in the original post and explain why tomorrow.


I look forward to reading about it.

----------


## austinite

*Pycnogenol* 

Alright. So I've been supplementing with this compound for a short while now. This is by far the most expensive compound in my OTC supplement list. You get what you pay for, right? Let's find out...

The reason this compound is expensive is because it comes from the French Maritime Pine tree. It's bark extract. Apparently its bark is far superior and more consistent than any other, making it unique and in high demand. Processing seems to be a very difficult task as well. The going price $3,700 for about 2 lbs. There's also a patent in there somewhere, so everyone has to get paid. Ridiculous, but that's why it's so expensive. 

*So what are the advertised uses for Pycnogenol? 
*
_please note: There are more benefits, I'm only listing the ones that concerned me. 
_
- Circulation Related Issues
- High Blood Pressure
- Muscle Soreness
- Erectile Dysfunction

*How does Pycnogenol work?
*
Pycnogenol binds to collagen. It increases oxygen delivery and decreases carbon dioxide. This gives you much healthier, more elastic and less wrinkled skin. The main thing they pitch however, is it's ability to increase circulation by increasing vessel diameter; allowing blood to flow better and inevitably delivering more nutrients. 

*My experience with Pycnogenol:
*
I started and finished 2 bottles. In total, 100 capsules at 60 mg each. My dosing protocol was 2 in the morning, and 2 before bed, for a total of 240 mg daily. I started over a month ago and finished a week or so ago. The reason I haven't updated was because I wanted to see what happens when I come off of it. Well, nothing happened. No changes to the skin, no decreased vascularity and no drop in my Nitric Oxide levels. And there was no huge changes in my blood pressure. 

I also came off of Magnesium (my preferred muscle relaxer) for one week during this experiment, to see if my post workout soreness was relieved or shortened to some degree. This was not the case. The only thing I noticed was the lack of magnesium and I was very happy to jump back on it. So I give it a zero for muscle related relief. 

I chose not to come off of cialis an everything else I take that aids with my erectile dysfunction. Mainly because I understood exactly how Pycnogenol would help me in that area, and it's no different than what I'm already doing. Would it work, however? Absolutely, but I doubt it if doses were considerable, making it quite the expensive fix.

Now, I understand that benefits to the skin can take some time to build up, but its circulation properties are supposed to be almost immediate. I am absolutely confident that this drug can and most likely will benefit most users. But it does nothing for me. My NO levels are through the roof due to my current protocol. My blood pressure and erectile dysfunction are both under control _without_ this drug. So why did I really take it? Well, the same damn reason I take Amino Acids, for increased vascularity and better pump. No gains there.

The max recommended dose is 180 mg. I knew I had to increase it if I wanted to see anything from it considering what I already take. So I pretty much wasted my time with this compound. I really hate to say that I don't have long term experience with it because, who knows, maybe long term use will yield more benefits. But for now, I'm sticking to my reliable friend: Cialis. 

*Who do I recommend this for?
*
*Women*. Women can benefit from Pycnogenol with relief from the following:

- Menopausal Symptoms
- Cramping from Menstrual Periods
- Reproductive System Issues

The skin and circulation benefits obviously are on the list above for women. 

I also recommend this for folks who would like the skin-related anti aging benefits, because it is quite unique in that area and binds to collagen like no other. My experience was probably too short to validate this but I'm putting my trust in the studies and a dermatologist's (friend of mine) endorsement. 

*I also recommend this for those who are acne prone. 
*
There you have it. Hopefully this helps you make a more informed decision. For me, I simply can't justify the price.

----------


## basketballfan22

There is the update I have been waiting for. Thanks a bunch! With the amount of money I am already planning on spending on the other supplements, I think I will hold off on this one.

----------


## austinite

> *Pycnogenol* 
> 
> Alright. So I've been supplementing with this compound for a short while now. This is by far the most expensive compound in my OTC supplement list. You get what you pay for, right? Let's find out...
> 
> The reason this compound is expensive is because it comes from the French Maritime Pine tree. It's bark extract. Apparently its bark is far superior and more consistent than any other, making it unique and in high demand. Processing seems to be a very difficult task as well. The going price $3,700 for about 2 lbs. There's also a patent in there somewhere, so everyone has to get paid. Ridiculous, but that's why it's so expensive. 
> 
> *So what are the advertised uses for Pycnogenol? 
> *
> _please note: There are more benefits, I'm only listing the ones that concerned me. 
> ...


Protocol on front page udpated...

----------


## austinite

> There is the update I have been waiting for. Thanks a bunch! With the amount of money I am already planning on spending on the other supplements, I think I will hold off on this one.


Sure thing, buddy. Thanks for tuning in  :Smilie:

----------


## basketballfan22

Are you going to discuss resveratrol? I know I have asked that before, and you mentioned that you take it with your fish oil.

----------


## austinite

> Are you going to discuss resveratrol? I know I have asked that before, and you mentioned that you take it with your fish oil.


crapola. Forgot about that one, sorry. Yes, I'll add it with the Carnitine update.

----------


## basketballfan22

> crapola. Forgot about that one, sorry. Yes, I'll add it with the Carnitine update.


"Sorry," that's funny. I am the one that should be apologizing for pestering you so damn much!

----------


## Java Man

Nice write up on the stuff that starts with a p. Lol. Not gonna try to spell that.

----------


## cj111

Austin, you take AAKG at all ? Instead of just arginine?

----------


## austinite

> Austin, you take AAKG at all ? Instead of just arginine?


I have AAKG powder, but before I ordered it I had already mixed a large batch of Arg/Cit , so I'm going through that. I've used AAKG and it's good stuff. I don't know that I really noticed much difference compared to plain ol arginine, but it certainly works!

----------


## basketballfan22

> I have AAKG powder, but before I ordered it I had already mixed a large batch of Arg/Cit , so I'm going through that. I've used AAKG and it's good stuff. I don't know that I really noticed much difference compared to plain ol arginine, but it certainly works!


Seeing as you have not noticed much of a difference between the two supplements, this question may be futile; but I will ask it anyway. If you had to choose between micronized arginine and AAKG, which one would you pick?

----------


## austinite

> Seeing as you have not noticed much of a difference between the two supplements, this question may be futile; but I will ask it anyway. If you had to choose between micronized arginine and AAKG, which one would you pick?


arginine is cheaper, so Id go with that

----------


## Dougiefresh7707

Do you have a good site you order all these from I'm particularly interested in your vascularity sups?

----------


## austinite

^ google search, lots of places. Mostly amazon.

----------


## austinite

Original post updated. Was unable to add Resveratrol because I reached the maximum character limit. But talking to Admn now to see about increasing that, otherwise I'll post it here.

----------


## Dougiefresh7707

> ^ google search, lots of places. Mostly amazon.


Thanks  :Smilie:

----------


## basketballfan22

> Original post updated. Was unable to add Resveratrol because I reached the maximum character limit. But talking to Admn now to see about increasing that, otherwise I'll post it here.


Great.

----------


## FONZY007

What are your thoughts of Berberine?


Reading about it, seems promising !!

----------


## austinite

> What are your thoughts of Berberine?
> 
> Reading about it, seems promising !!


No idea. I'll read up on it and give my opinion soon. Thanks for bringing it up!

----------


## austinite

> What are your thoughts of Berberine?
> 
> 
> Reading about it, seems promising !!


Hmm. What exactly are you trying to accomplish with this?

----------


## austinite

*Resveratrol*
Let's get an old wives tale out of the way. Resveratrol does not extend your life. This can be found in wine in small amounts and one of the reasons that lots of folks drink a glass or two of wine a day. But again, that's a myth as there is no evidence.

The reason I began supplementing with this drug was to regulate blood flow and to help lower my Arimidex dose. It works in some ways like Chrysin; an OTC AI. However, 

To take advantage of better blood flow from this drug you would need to run it in excess of 250mg. This is also a good drug to take if you're having trouble keeping your Triglycerides under 150.

*The Decision to Drop* *Resveratrol from my Protocol*
I completely failed to do enough research before taking this drug. It's amazing what indepth research or more studies that are done after you take a drug will present. I think I've been on it since 2010, but only a few days ago decided to drop it after an email I got from a member here.

A study was done that I wasn't aware of that has made me decide to drop Resveratrol. Apparently this drug inhibits mTOR activators. mTOR (mammalian target of rapamycin) is the system that regulates our cell growth and metabolism.

So what activates mTOR? Amino Acids. But there is one Amino Acid that is the biggest activator... Leucine. As discussed in the recent audio session, Leucine is abundant in our diets and there is no need for mass supplementation as it will go to waste. But what we get from food is plenty to activate mTOR. Personally, I'll take that over the benefits of Resveratrol. 

So for me, *Resveratrol is out*. I have 3 bottles, any takers??  :Smilie: 

Moral of the story is, if you're supplementing with something for years, it's not bad idea to check for any recent studies and/or changes in its profile.

----------


## Java Man

> Awesome, great to hear Java Man! PLEASE keep me posted right here, I want to hear about your progress. Sound like you're doing great so far. And thanks for the plugs! haha. Much appreciated.


OK here's a better pic that my daughter took with her phone which of course is better than mine!
This one is at the gym and still not the best quality (low lighting) but some vascularity is evident and if you saw what I looked like in December '12 (2nd pic) this is a massive improvement. I had taken 8-10 yrs off I don't know exactly when I stopped training, dieting, and started drinking a lot but it was 8-10 yrs ago. I'm bigger now (205ish at ~10-12% bf 2002 vs. 227 as of tonight but with bf probably 16-18%? I honestly have no idea what my bf% is. This is after 6 weeks pct. Just about done with that. This is not my thread so I don't want to post too much but you said you wanted me to post my progress here. I'm glad you're honestly interested in it. Thanks for the encouragement!  :Smilie: 

Attachment 139399Attachment 139401

----------


## austinite

> OK here's a better pic that my daughter took with her phone which of course is better than mine!
> This one is at the gym and still not the best quality (low lighting) but some vascularity is evident and if you saw what I looked like in December '12 (2nd pic) this is a massive improvement. I had taken 8-10 yrs off I don't know exactly when I stopped training, dieting, and started drinking a lot but it was 8-10 yrs ago. I'm bigger now (205ish at ~10-12% bf 2002 vs. 227 as of tonight but with bf probably 16-18%? I honestly have no idea what my bf% is. This is after 6 weeks pct. Just about done with that. This is not my thread so I don't want to post too much but you said you wanted me to post my progress here. I'm glad you're honestly interested in it. Thanks for the encouragement!


Wow, Java! that is some serious transformation man! Outstanding job. Hard work is really showing there. Your starting BF is closer to 30% my friend. Thanks for the update and I can see that you're on the way to vascularity, already showing!!

----------


## Java Man

> Wow, Java! that is some serious transformation man! Outstanding job. Hard work is really showing there. Your starting BF is closer to 30% my friend. Thanks for the update and I can see that you're on the way to vascularity, already showing!!


Thank you. I meant 205ish 10-12% back in 2002. That before pic above I was over 240. I thought my bf was probably over 30. Quit being a nice guy  :Smilie:

----------


## FONZY007

> Hmm. What exactly are you trying to accomplish with this?


Well a study stated it raises your good cholesterol by 18% and lower your bad by 20%

It's stating you can get off a statin due to the sides and is a great alternative

----------


## austinite

> Well a study stated it raises your good cholesterol by 18% and lower your bad by 20%


Yeah, I've been reading up on it, looks like it's a good thing to keep sugar under control. This might be something I'll consider. I've been looking for something that might help get me off of Metformin. Thanks again.

----------


## FONZY007

> Yeah, I've been reading up on it, looks like it's a good thing to keep sugar under control. This might be something I'll consider. I've been looking for something that might help get me off of Metformin. Thanks again.


Cool, it's not to expensive either, I was looking at it.. Could use it while on cycle so your cholesterol doesn't take a huge hit!!

----------


## FONZY007

On a side note, I notice you stated you take albuterol and can't handle the sides of Clen .. 

I know Clen effects metabolism 25% is albuterol the same? 

Sorry for the question!! Cuz Clen sides are harsh after a week I'm drained...

----------


## songdog

Good job bro I use to take a bunch of stuff.I also cut it way back.Handful of multi's fish oil and I end it there.I got tired of seeing my money turn yellow.Then get flushed down the toliet.

----------


## basketballfan22

Hey austinite, AnabolicDoc recently posted a link to a thread he started a few months ago in gb's thread "Too many pills" (http://forums.steroid.com/rate-your-...rmone-hgh.html). He and the article suggest taking 5 - 9 grams of arginine. Now I know you have said that 9 grams used to get you sick, but is 5 grams too much too? Does the conversion of citrulline to arginine mean that your recommended doses will also lead to the increase in HGH response that the article talks about?

----------


## austinite

> Hey austinite, AnabolicDoc recently posted a link to a thread he started a few months ago in gb's thread "Too many pills" (http://forums.steroid.com/rate-your-...rmone-hgh.html). He and the article suggest taking 5 - 9 grams of arginine. Now I know you have said that 9 grams used to get you sick, but is 5 grams too much too? Does the conversion of citrulline to arginine mean that your recommended doses will also lead to the increase in HGH response that the article talks about?


Yes, an excerpt was posted in the original post referencing this. 5 grams is not too much, and yes Citrulline will result in the same effects. This is in reference to resting HGH, not to be confused with exercise-induced growth hormone response. In fact, if you workout late in the day, it's a good idea to take Cit or Arg prior to bed because training will actually decrease resting hGH.

----------


## kelkel

> OK here's a better pic that my daughter took with her phone which of course is better than mine!
> This one is at the gym and still not the best quality (low lighting) but some vascularity is evident and if you saw what I looked like in December '12 (2nd pic) this is a massive improvement. I had taken 8-10 yrs off I don't know exactly when I stopped training, dieting, and started drinking a lot but it was 8-10 yrs ago. I'm bigger now (205ish at ~10-12% bf 2002 vs. 227 as of tonight but with bf probably 16-18%? I honestly have no idea what my bf% is. This is after 6 weeks pct. Just about done with that. This is not my thread so I don't want to post too much but you said you wanted me to post my progress here. I'm glad you're honestly interested in it. Thanks for the encouragement! 
> 
> Attachment 139399Attachment 139401



Really outstanding progress Java!




And this thread continues to be impressive austinite!

----------


## austinite

^ Thanks kel! Traffic always goes up when you come around!  :Smilie:

----------


## kelkel

> ^ Thanks kel! Traffic always goes up when you come around!


If that's true then they're just aiming low to avoid disappointment!

----------


## Java Man

> Hey austinite, AnabolicDoc recently posted a link to a thread he started a few months ago in gb's thread "Too many pills" (http://forums.steroid.com/rate-your-...rmone-hgh.html). He and the article suggest taking 5 - 9 grams of arginine. Now I know you have said that 9 grams used to get you sick, but is 5 grams too much too? Does the conversion of citrulline to arginine mean that your recommended doses will also lead to the increase in HGH response that the article talks about?


I'm currently using 3g cit, 2g arg 3x/day morn, pre-workout, bed. 9g cit, 6gr arg total daily. I'm not too picky though, sometimes I take 3g of each if I feel I need more.

----------


## Java Man

> Really outstanding progress Java!


Thanks kelkel. I did that in a single day. You should see the puddle on the gym floor!

----------


## austinite

Also note that when I said taking 9 grams wasnt good for me, that means at once. I can handle 15 grams a day, maybe more. So long as it's not in one dose.

----------


## areichert

Austinite, do you ever get a b12 shot on top of your daily b12 vitamin intake?

----------


## austinite

> Austinite, do you ever get a b12 shot on top of your daily b12 vitamin intake?


Yes, as outlined in the protocol in the original post, I inject 1000mcg weekly when I am not cycling. I don't take B12 supplement daily.

----------


## basketballfan22

> Yes, an excerpt was posted in the original post referencing this. 5 grams is not too much, and yes Citrulline will result in the same effects. This is in reference to resting HGH, not to be confused with exercise-induced growth hormone response. In fact, if you workout late in the day, it's a good idea to take Cit or Arg prior to bed because training will actually decrease resting hGH.


Oh damn. I am sorry. I need to re-read this entire thread from time to time because I forget everything that has been talked about. The next time I ask about something that has been discussed just tell me, and I will search for it in the thread. Thanks for clarifying the point about resting and exercise-induced HGH.

----------


## austinite

lol, just making sure others see so they can read. great question btw!

----------


## basketballfan22

> Also note that when I said taking 9 grams wasnt good for me, that means at once. I can handle 15 grams a day, maybe more. So long as it's not in one dose.


Great clarification. I will use the 3 and 4 grams of arginine and citrulline respectively that you recommend; and if I want a bigger effect, I will tweak the dose.

----------


## austinite

> Great clarification. I will use the 3 and 4 grams of arginine and citrulline respectively that you recommend; and if I want a bigger effect, I will tweak the dose.


That's how I did it.  :Smilie: 

Waiting for admin to extend the dang character count, I have a bunch of goal-specific stacks I want to post.

----------


## basketballfan22

> That's how I did it. 
> 
> Waiting for admin to extend the dang character count, I have a bunch of goal-specific stacks I want to post.


I thought you were going to start a new thread for each goal like you did with your "Acne Protocol."

----------


## austinite

> I thought you were going to start a new thread for each goal like you did with your "Acne Protocol."


I was, but looks kinda lame with all the "austinte's....." threads.

----------


## Java Man

> I thought you were going to start a new thread for each goal like you did with your "Acne Protocol."


If the suggestions dept. is open, I like that idea too  :Smilie:

----------


## Java Man

> I was, but looks kinda lame with all the "austinte's....." threads.


Selling yourself short. You're well respected here. Ever Google "Austinite's" just like that? LOL. You get a return opf a bunch of your threads here. You're famous hehe.

----------


## austinite

lol, awesome. Thanks for the kind words!

----------


## basketballfan22

> I was, but looks kinda lame with all the "austinte's....." threads.


Lmao. I understand your concern, but I don't think it is that lame. How many protocols do you have?

----------


## basketballfan22

> Selling yourself short. You're well respected here. Ever Google "Austinite's" just like that? LOL. You get a return opf a bunch of your threads here. You're famous hehe.


Well I just Googled "Austinite," but I didn't find him on the first two pages. I'm sorry to rain on your parade austinite, lol.  :Frown:  You are famous to the members on this forum though.

----------


## austinite

> Lmao. I understand your concern, but I don't think it is that lame. How many protocols do you have?


So far acne, vascularity, hair loss, fat loss, energy and depression.

----------


## austinite

stop googling me you freaks!

----------


## Java Man

My mistake. I had googled "Austinite's amino's" apparently one time when I was looking for this particular thread. That's a little more specific but this thread is #1 on the list with that search lol.

----------


## basketballfan22

> stop googling me you freaks!


LMAO. Curiosity got the best of me okay!

----------


## basketballfan22

> So far acne, vascularity, hair loss, fat loss, energy and depression.


Do all of your protocols only include supplements, or do some contain chemical compounds (e.g. clenbuterol for your fat loss protocol)? Also do you ever combine protocols (e.g. vascularity and fat loss)?

----------


## austinite

> Do all of your protocols only include supplements, or do some contain chemical compounds (e.g. clenbuterol for your fat loss protocol)?


All OTC drugs.

----------


## basketballfan22

Last question. You included a vascularity protocol in the first post, so what is this thread's protocol specifically for? Energy and vascularity?

----------


## austinite

vascularity

----------


## Sfla80

Aust, this might have been asked but a huge thread now. I see you take 2400mg MACA. Isnt maca basically what horny goat weed is made out of? Maybe I am wrong. But ive been taking 3000mg horny goat for a few months now and about to restock myself on a few things. Would you suggest both maca and goat weed, or go with one or the other?

----------


## austinite

> Aust, this might have been asked but a huge thread now. I see you take 2400mg MACA. Isnt maca basically what horny goat weed is made out of? Maybe I am wrong. But ive been taking 3000mg horny goat for a few months now and about to restock myself on a few things. Would you suggest both maca and goat weed, or go with one or the other?


no. Maca is from Lepidium meyenii and HGW is Epimedium. I do both, but if you must choose, Maca has MUCH more benefit.

----------


## Sfla80

> no. Maca is from Lepidium meyenii and HGW is Epimedium. I do both, but if you must choose, Maca has MUCH more benefit.


Ok I'm gonna try both for now a see what I like. Thank you!

----------


## austinite

> Ok I'm gonna try both for now a see what I like. Thank you!


If I were you, I would switch for a while. That way you can see what MACA does on it's own. If you like it, and you've already liked HGW, then run them both. That way HGW doesn't somehow cloud your judgement.

----------


## krugerr

If we're voting, I would like to see you post those Hairloss/ Fat Loss/ Depression stacks all separately to keep their discussions easier. You should definitely start all the thread names with "Austinites..."

----------


## austinite

^ You make an excellent point regarding discussions. Thanks krugerr, something to consider now...

----------


## krugerr

> ^ You make an excellent point regarding discussions. Thanks krugerr, something to consider now...


You're welcome! I normally talk a lot a shit, but occasionally a good idea falls out  :Smilie:

----------


## Live for the PUMP

Austinite, I wanted to get your thoughts on oral B-12. I am aware the IM injection route is optimal. I bought Kirkland brand Sublingual B-12 at 5000mcg/tab as methylcobalamin. Is one tab a day enough? Is this a good way to get B-12?

thanks,

LFTP

----------


## basketballfan22

> Austinite, I wanted to get your thoughts on oral B-12. I am aware the IM injection route is optimal. I bought Kirkland brand Sublingual B-12 at 5000mcg/tab as methylcobalamin. Is one tab a day enough? Is this a good way to get B-12?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> LFTP


Austinite mentioned that he took 5000mg of sublingual methylcobalamin by Jarrow every day in the original post, and that his appetite skyrocketed. I believe he will start taking methylcobalamin when bulking because he was afraid he was eating too much. Your question was directed towards him though, so I will let the man answer for himself.

From what I have read though, methylcobalamin is a lot more absorbable than the typical cyanocobalamin, not to mention the fact that the liver doesn't have to detoxify it like it does cyanocobalamin (it is vitamin B12 attached to cyanide). The injectable methylcobalamin is quite expensive though.

----------


## MajorPectorial

That reminds.me. arg n.b12, must remember ffs.

Whats best for.memory

(N dont say a notepad. I forgot where i pit it!)

----------


## austinite

> Austinite, I wanted to get your thoughts on oral B-12. I am aware the IM injection route is optimal. I bought Kirkland brand Sublingual B-12 at 5000mcg/tab as methylcobalamin. Is one tab a day enough? Is this a good way to get B-12?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> LFTP





> Austinite mentioned that he took 5000mg of sublingual methylcobalamin by Jarrow every day in the original post, and that his appetite skyrocketed. I believe he will start taking methylcobalamin when bulking because he was afraid he was eating too much. Your question was directed towards him though, so I will let the man answer for himself.
> 
> From what I have read though, methylcobalamin is a lot more absorbable than the typical cyanocobalamin, not to mention the fact that the liver doesn't have to detoxify it like it does cyanocobalamin (it is vitamin B12 attached to cyanide). The injectable methylcobalamin is quite expensive though.


^^ this. thanks BB

Pump, one tab should be plenty. I really can't wait to run a short bulking round to see what extended periods of taking the sublingual will do. I have a feeling the hunger issue may level off at some point. If it were cyan, I'd say go ahead and take 2 tabs a day, split up. But with Methyl, one should be plenty. My experience is with Jarrow products.

----------


## basketballfan22

> That reminds.me. arg n.b12, must remember ffs.
> 
> Whats best for.memory
> 
> (N dont say a notepad. I forgot where i pit it!)


Why do you have so many periods in your post? I don't mean that in a rude manner; it is just kind of hard to understand your post.

----------


## AnabolicDoc

> ^^ this. thanks BB
> 
> Pump, one tab should be plenty. I really can't wait to run a short bulking round to see what extended periods of taking the sublingual will do. I have a feeling the hunger issue may level off at some point. If it were cyan, I'd say go ahead and take 2 tabs a day, split up. But with Methyl, one should be plenty. My experience is with Jarrow products.


I've recently learned that oral b12 therapy is as effective as IM or even IV administration, unless you have pernicious anemia. This may have already been mentioned. Not sure as I've only recently come across this thread and I'm not sub'd.

Here's the link about B12:

http://guideline.gov/content.aspx?f=...=12#Section420

----------


## basketballfan22

> I've recently learned that oral b12 therapy is as effective as IM or even IV administration, unless you have pernicious anemia. This may have already been mentioned. Not sure as I've only recently come across this thread and I'm not sub'd.
> 
> Here's the link about B12:
> 
> National Guideline Clearinghouse | Cobalamin (vitamin B<sub>12</sub>) deficiencyâinvestigation and management.


That is very interesting. I am having trouble locating the figure showing this though.

----------


## AnabolicDoc

About half way down under the "Management" heading. Just use the "find on page" function. If on a PC, it's ctrl + F.

----------


## basketballfan22

This is what I see:

Oral administration of cobalamin is as effective as parenteral (*see Figure 1 in the original guideline document*). I don't know where this original guideline document is though.

----------


## AnabolicDoc

You have to follow the link to the original full text, which is here:

http://www.bcguidelines.ca/guideline_cobalamin.html

Then scroll down to the middle-bottom. Figure 1 is just above the list of references.

----------


## Live for the PUMP

Ok. Thanks Austinite, Basketball fan, and Anabolic Doc! That is great news. I was in store comparing to another product of B-12 as cyancobalmin. It was just a lucky guess I picked the one i did. Wait. No. It was the price.  :Smilie:

----------


## AnabolicDoc

> I've recently learned that oral b12 therapy is as effective as IM or even IV administration, unless you have pernicious anemia. This may have already been mentioned. Not sure as I've only recently come across this thread and I'm not sub'd.


I meant to say . . . and I'm NOW sub'd (damn auto correct)

----------


## armyranger516862006

Austinite is there an Amino or Vita/Min that you recommend for daily Energy level increases?

----------


## austinite

> Austinite is there an Amino or Vita/Min that you recommend for daily Energy level increases?


Yes, coming soon. Keep an eye out for some new updates with goal-specific stacks.

----------


## armyranger516862006

Hell Yes I will keep an eye out! Thanks bud!

----------


## basketballfan22

What is your take on the post about the absorbability of oral vitamin B12 from AnabolicDoc austinite?

----------


## austinite

I'll reply later. Overwhelmed with stuff. Really don't feel like doing anything requiring focus, lol. My head has been spinning. Haven't had a chance to read the study. Very confident I can prove otherwise.

----------


## basketballfan22

Take your time my man.

----------


## Dougiefresh7707

Hey aus just about to start liquid CIA can I stop using my no cp3 pre workout now and shoul I still get the sups OTC for vascularity?

----------


## austinite

^ I dont know what cp3 is bro. Need a label.

----------


## Dougiefresh7707

> ^ I dont know what cp3 is bro. Need a label.


Sry no xp3 it's just a pre workout http://www.nutrishopredondobeach.com/NOXP3.html

----------


## austinite

^ should be fine. They don't breakdown the blend so I don't know how much of each they packed in their. Try it, if you get any stomach irritation (you probably will), then dont do it again . But that is overkill and there really won't be any benefit.  :Smilie:

----------


## Dougiefresh7707

> ^ should be fine. They don't breakdown the blend so I don't know how much of each they packed in their. Try it, if you get any stomach irritation (you probably will), then dont do it again . But that is overkill and there really won't be any benefit.


I take it now every workout but original question was now that I take liquid CIA can I stop that as a pre workout and still use OTC supplement like the ones outlined in this thread for vascularity as week for pre workout ?

----------


## austinite

Oh sorry!! Yes, you can stop the preworkout! the OTC supps along with Cialis is MORE than plenty!

----------


## Dougiefresh7707

> Oh sorry!! Yes, you can stop the preworkout! the OTC supps along with Cialis is MORE than plenty!


Lol no problem thanks again aus, feeling any better saw you post you were feeling off?

----------


## austinite

Yeah I got a little rest.  :Smilie:  Thanks buddy.

----------


## Dougiefresh7707

> Yeah I got a little rest.  Thanks buddy.


Good to hear.

----------


## Java Man

> Why do you have so many periods in your post? I don't mean that in a rude manner; it is just kind of hard to understand your post.


Period is right next to spacebar on androids with swype. I'm not sure about other phones .but my fat fingers do the.period. thing all.the.time

----------


## blummy

> Period is right next to spacebar on androids with swype. I'm not sure about other phones .but my fat fingers do the.period. thing all.the.time


I always hit B and V instead of space. SO ANNOYING!

----------


## blummy

Hey can anyone tell me the difference between mag citrate and oxide and there is also another one is it oxalate?. If its been discussed say so and I will try and find it, may have skipped over it. Also at my sup store he has a citrate/oxide blend. Is 80% oxcie 20% citrate? You want 100% citrate or is that not available?

----------


## AnabolicDoc

They're all basically different magnesium salts and have different amounts of elemental magnesium available.

----------


## basketballfan22

> Hey can anyone tell me the difference between mag citrate and oxide and there is also another one is it oxalate?. If its been discussed say so and I will try and find it, may have skipped over it. Also at my sup store he has a citrate/oxide blend. Is 80% oxcie 20% citrate? You want 100% citrate or is that not available?


Austinite and I talked about it on page 3. From what I have read, magnesium orotate is the most absorbable. It is usually more expensive, and a lot of the brands you find have other vitamins and minerals with it. Austinite uses magnesium citrate.

----------


## bringndaheat

Austin ur fingers must be worn out from ths thread. Very solid for u to answer all these questions. U might have to shut this one down so u can start those specific protocols.

----------


## blummy

> Austinite and I talked about it on page 3. From what I have read, magnesium orotate is the most absorbable. It is usually more expensive, and a lot of the brands you find have other vitamins and minerals with it. Austinite uses magnesium citrate.


Thanks for that!

----------


## blummy

> They're all basically different magnesium salts and have different amounts of elemental magnesium available.


Thanks I'll look into the thread where basketball fan said and go from there. 
Thanks for the quick response

----------


## basketballfan22

Hey austinite. Have you had the opportunity to check out that link AnabolicDoc posted about oral B12 being as effective as injectable B12?

----------


## austinite

> Hey austinite. Have you had the opportunity to check out that link AnabolicDoc posted about oral B12 being as effective as injectable B12?


Well, in short, every study I've seen that's been done was to get deficient patients to acceptable levels. Mind you, the average blood test range is 200 to 1000pg/mL. So you see, it wouldn't take much to bring a deficient patient to normal levels. I'm not looking to be in that range. You'd have to take super-mega doses of orals to get close to the top range, and I doubt that you can. There is no argument about absorption, any study can tell us that. Oral is not absorbed nearly as well as IM administration. It absorbs enough to work and get you in range. Again, that's not good enough for me.

I don't want to have average levels, I want to be above average, way above average. There is benefit to high levels of B12 and a single injection can get me there and it can do it quickly. I take enough pills already. Furthermore; if you have the slightest digestive disorder (which you may or may not be aware of), orals would be a losing battle. B12 is also a water soluble vitamin, any food in your stomach will hinder absorption further. 

Now... in most studies they talk about cost efficiency of oral B12 vs. injections. But what we seem to forget is that this scenario does not apply to you and me. Because we do not go to the doctors office for a B12 shot once a week. (which costs a fortune). We would be self injecting. A single shot a doctors office would cost me more than a 6 month supply of B12, including syringes, alcohol wipes and whatever else you need to inject. 

If I wanted to accomplish the same (which I have doubts if it's even possible) with orals, I'd be spending far more. It's very important to dissect and understand studies, but it's also important to note the applications, purpose and relevance to our use. We don't get blood work often enough. So we can gamble with orals, or inject for a surefire way to maintain high levels. 

Now, one of the reasons I haven't replied sooner is because I've been researching Intravenous injections of B12. I'm very interested in the possibility of intravenously administering a stack of Vitamins and Minerals. It's so much easier and injection frequency seems to be less than Intramuscular. It's a win win, I think. But I'm still researching IV injections and as soon as my Methyl B12 arrives I will be testing it Intravenously.

----------


## basketballfan22

> Well, in short, every study I've seen that's been done was to get deficient patients to acceptable levels. Mind you, the average blood test range is 200 to 1000pg/mL. So you see, it wouldn't take much to bring a deficient patient to normal levels. I'm not looking to be in that range. You'd have to take super-mega doses of orals to get close to the top range, and I doubt that you can. There is no argument about absorption, any study can tell us that. Oral is not absorbed nearly as well as IM administration. It absorbs enough to work and get you in range. Again, that's not good enough for me.
> 
> I don't want to have average levels, I want to be above average, way above average. There is benefit to high levels of B12 and a single injection can get me there and it can do it quickly. I take enough pills already. Furthermore; if you have the slightest digestive disorder (which you may or may not be aware of), orals would be a losing battle. B12 is also a water soluble vitamin, any food in your stomach will hinder absorption further. 
> 
> Now... in most studies they talk about cost efficiency of oral B12 vs. injections. But what we seem to forget is that this scenario does not apply to you and me. Because we do not go to the doctors office for a B12 shot once a week. (which costs a fortune). We would be self injecting. A single shot a doctors office would cost me more than a 6 month supply of B12, including syringes, alcohol wipes and whatever else you need to inject. 
> 
> If I wanted to accomplish the same (which I have doubts if it's even possible) with orals, I'd be spending far more. It's very important to dissect and understand studies, but it's also important to note the applications, purpose and relevance to our use. We don't get blood work often enough. So we can gamble with orals, or inject for a surefire way to maintain high levels. 
> 
> Now, one of the reasons I haven't replied sooner is because I've been researching Intravenous injections of B12. I'm very interested in the possibility of intravenously administering a stack of Vitamins and Minerals. It's so much easier and injection frequency seems to be less than Intramuscular. It's a win win, I think. But I'm still researching IV injections and as soon as my Methyl B12 arrives I will be testing it Intravenously.


Okay, I understand. Oral B12 is as effective as injectable B12 *within* normal levels; but to exceed normal levels, injectable B12 is needed. My concern about intravenous injections is the same as intramuscular injections. If one is to inject only once per week, would it not be better to inject subcutaneously that way the B12 will slowly enter your system instead of running the risk of absorbing too much too quickly and excreting it out? The few articles I read compared the three methods and recommended subcutaneous injections, specifically in the buttocks because it contains even more fat.

The mindset I currently have (please correct me if I am wrong) is that all three methods (intravenous, intramuscular, and subcutaneous) have the same (or extremely close to) level of absorbability and only differ in the time it takes to absorb the dose.

----------


## austinite

> Okay, I understand. Oral B12 is as effective as injectable B12 *within* normal levels; but to exceed normal levels, injectable B12 is needed. My concern about intravenous injections is the same as intramuscular injections. If one is to inject only once per week, would it not be better to inject subcutaneously that way the B12 will slowly enter your system instead of running the risk of absorbing too much too quickly and excreting it out? The few articles I read compared the three methods and recommended subcutaneous injections, specifically in the buttocks because it contains even more fat.
> 
> The mindset I currently have (please correct me if I am wrong) is that all three methods (intravenous, intramuscular, and subcutaneous) have the same (or extremely close to) level of absorbability and only differ in the time it takes to absorb the dose.


Your first sentence is correct. Just as effective for normal-in-range levels. 

B12 can be injected SubQ, but the absorption rate/speed is semi-negligible. It is oil-based compounds that are considerably slower. B12 is water. But like you said, the more fatty the area, the slower the absorption. But comparing oil and water into say... the buttocks, water is a clear winner as far as speed. 

Excretion is different deal. Excretion is based on your B12 binding capacity. I'm not concerned with excretion because I know I am at max capacity. If you were to supplement with orals or whatever really, and you are concerned about excretion rate, you need to test your binding capacity and monitor your B12 levels and log your intake. Everyone is different in that area. If someone told me that I inject too much because I excrete most of it, I'd ask them for my blood work. There isn't a set percentage of excretion. 

You can always supplement with Sialic Acid to increase binding capacity, but you really don't need to unless you're deficient. As for your last question re IM/SubQ absorbability, I would say yes, speed should be the only factor. I can't speak for IV yet.

----------


## AnabolicDoc

> Well, in short, every study I've seen that's been done was to get deficient patients to acceptable levels. Mind you, the average blood test range is 200 to 1000pg/mL. So you see, it wouldn't take much to bring a deficient patient to normal levels. I'm not looking to be in that range. You'd have to take super-mega doses of orals to get close to the top range, and I doubt that you can. There is no argument about absorption, any study can tell us that. Oral is not absorbed nearly as well as IM administration. It absorbs enough to work and get you in range. Again, that's not good enough for me.
> 
> I don't want to have average levels, I want to be above average, way above average. There is benefit to high levels of B12 and a single injection can get me there and it can do it quickly. I take enough pills already. Furthermore; if you have the slightest digestive disorder (which you may or may not be aware of), orals would be a losing battle. B12 is also a water soluble vitamin, any food in your stomach will hinder absorption further.
> 
> Now... in most studies they talk about cost efficiency of oral B12 vs. injections. But what we seem to forget is that this scenario does not apply to you and me. Because we do not go to the doctors office for a B12 shot once a week. (which costs a fortune). We would be self injecting. A single shot a doctors office would cost me more than a 6 month supply of B12, including syringes, alcohol wipes and whatever else you need to inject.
> 
> If I wanted to accomplish the same (which I have doubts if it's even possible) with orals, I'd be spending far more. It's very important to dissect and understand studies, but it's also important to note the applications, purpose and relevance to our use. We don't get blood work often enough. So we can gamble with orals, or inject for a surefire way to maintain high levels.
> 
> Now, one of the reasons I haven't replied sooner is because I've been researching Intravenous injections of B12. I'm very interested in the possibility of intravenously administering a stack of Vitamins and Minerals. It's so much easier and injection frequency seems to be less than Intramuscular. It's a win win, I think. But I'm still researching IV injections and as soon as my Methyl B12 arrives I will be testing it Intravenously.


Wow, great post. I think you're entirely right. The article I posted was saying that similar therapeutic levels can be achieved via IM and oral ingestion, it does not say that this can be done at the same dose. In fact the protocol of IM administration of b12 to deficient individuals is:

-1000mg weekly for 4 weeks,
-then monthly until stable levels are achieved,
-or indefinitely if you have pernicious anemia

100% consistent with your point that oral doses are higher. Interestingly I've read that high oral doses of 1000mg daily can be used to effectively manage those with pernicious anemia. For those who don't know that is when you lack adequate levels of intrinsic factor, which is needed for B12 absorption. Not saying I believe it is recommended to treat ppl with pernicious anemia with oral B12, just that it's an option. 

Regarding IV administration of Vitamins and Minerals, this is becoming an increasingly popular practice especially to treat ppl with debilitating illnesses such as cancer. It's also popularly for non-debilitating illnesses or even to healthy individuals. I have no experience or education on this however and I'm interested on learning about it.

----------


## basketballfan22

> Your first sentence is correct. Just as effective for normal-in-range levels. 
> 
> B12 can be injected SubQ, but the absorption rate/speed is semi-negligible. It is oil-based compounds that are considerably slower. B12 is water. But like you said, the more fatty the area, the slower the absorption. But comparing oil and water into say... the buttocks, water is a clear winner as far as speed. 
> 
> Excretion is different deal. Excretion is based on your B12 binding capacity. I'm not concerned with excretion because I know I am at max capacity. If you were to supplement with orals or whatever really, and you are concerned about excretion rate, you need to test your binding capacity and monitor your B12 levels and log your intake. Everyone is different in that area. If someone told me that I inject too much because I excrete most of it, I'd ask them for my blood work. There isn't a set percentage of excretion. 
> 
> You can always supplement with Sialic Acid to increase binding capacity, but you really don't need to unless you're deficient. As for your last question re IM/SubQ absorbability, I would say yes, speed should be the only factor. I can't speak for IV yet.


Awesome post. Thanks. Although I have yet to inject anywhere, I think intramuscular and subcutaneous injections will be easy. I am not as confident about the ease of intravenous injections though. I look forward to your updates.

----------


## antonboi

Hi I'm taking carnitine ( pill form ) they are 500 mg per pill , it says on the tub to only take one per day but do you think I should take more ? Great article btw

----------


## austinite

> Hi I'm taking carnitine ( pill form ) they are 500 mg per pill , it says on the tub to only take one per day but do you think I should take more ? Great article btw


Yes, if you look at my protocol, I take 6,000mg per day. No problems. Try to get liquid form for better absorption.

----------


## antonboi

Wow I guess 1 pill a day is pathetic lol I only got a tub of 30 so as soon as these run out I'll go with liquid form thanks for the info it's really helpful

----------


## Java Man

I'll be damned (pretty sure that's handled already!) Austinite. B-5 and zinc cleared up my upper arm acne within a week. I split the difference in your light and heavy dosage lists by taking about 8g per day pantothenic acid and 35mg zinc. I was also rubbing with a topical brew made with 91% IPA and Witch Hazel. Dried me right up! I'm getting older and more stubborn. I've never been a big believer in natural remedies but you're changing that.

Thanks!

----------


## austinite

> I'll be damned (pretty sure that's handled already!) Austinite. B-5 and zinc cleared up my upper arm acne within a week. I split the difference in your light and heavy dosage lists by taking about 8g per day pantothenic acid and 35mg zinc. I was also rubbing with a topical brew made with 91% IPA and Witch Hazel. Dried me right up! I'm getting older and more stubborn. I've never been a big believer in natural remedies but you're changing that.
> 
> Thanks!


Good job J. Man! Good to hear. Let the folks know in the acne thread. I'm sure they'd love to hear experiences. Really happy to hear this buddy.

----------


## Java Man

> Good job J. Man! Good to hear. Let the folks know in the acne thread. I'm sure they'd love to hear experiences. Really happy to hear this buddy.


Oh yeah different thread huh? I'll post this there.

----------


## ppwc1985

Is it ok to take NAC and Liv52 at same time or is it overkill?

----------


## austinite

> Is it ok to take NAC and Liv52 at same time or is it overkill?


Yes, but NAC is plenty.

----------


## ppwc1985

> Yes, but NAC is plenty.


Ok thks

----------


## chi

just re started my b5 again @ gram this morning along with one pill of zinc. Going to slowly increase and see what happens!!

----------


## InTransit

Anyone know where to get the vitamin powders for cheap, this is a shitload of supps!

----------


## austinite

> Anyone know where to get the vitamin powders for cheap, this is a shitload of supps!


A quick google and/or amazon search will yield a considerable amount of results.

----------


## MajorPectorial

China if ur buying bulk AND u find someone reliable. UK small amount I'd eb. Apart from that aust is the king of supps!!!

Aust. Since ur Supp list is so bastard long can u fund my Supp list!!! Haha ran out :$

Love this list. Gunna be my body bible haha!!!

Any progress on a super shake recipe? Like pre w/o and post w/o yet?
Love to design like a true multi vit if that were possible. The ultimate super Supp!!

----------


## MajorPectorial

Oh n I advise to put that l-citrullune straight on ur tongue n swish it round ur mouth without water its YUMMY!!! LOLOL

----------


## austinite

> China if ur buying bulk AND u find someone reliable. UK small amount I'd eb. Apart from that aust is the king of supps!!!
> 
> Aust. Since ur Supp list is so bastard long can u fund my Supp list!!! Haha ran out :$
> 
> Love this list. Gunna be my body bible haha!!!
> 
> Any progress on a super shake recipe? Like pre w/o and post w/o yet?
> Love to design like a true multi vit if that were possible. The ultimate super Supp!!


Yeah, just been busy with real life stuff. But I will get to it soon. Hopefully this week. Don't go crazy spending all your money, lol, my protocol is extreme and you don't need that much. Use wisely.  :Smilie: 




> Oh n I advise to put that l-citrullune straight on ur tongue n swish it round ur mouth without water its YUMMY!!! LOLOL


lol, hardcore! sound gross! I don't know any facts but I'd probably research any effects of doing that on your teeth.

----------


## bigsparky84

Very good read!!

----------


## RANA

Another great read, thanks.

----------


## basketballfan22

For those members that are too damn lazy to check austinite's other protocols, I will add that he uses 800 mcg of chromium picolinate and 10 mg of synephrine pre-workout too.

----------


## austinite

> For those members that are too damn lazy to check austinite's other protocols, I will add that he uses 800 mcg of chromium picolinate and 10 mg of synephrine pre-workout too.


correct. while I'm cutting, but chances are I will continue with chromium but not in mega doses

----------


## basketballfan22

> correct. while I'm cutting, but chances are I will continue with chromium but not in mega doses


What will you reduce the dose to? From your other thread, I assumed the synephrine was even more effective at fat loss; so will you reduce that dose too?

I will probably use the above doses for a while, but eventually I may choose the smaller doses considering I am "bulking."

----------


## austinite

> What will you reduce the dose to? From your other thread, I assumed the synephrine was even more effective at fat loss; so will you reduce that dose too?
> 
> I will probably use the above doses for a while, but eventually I may choose the smaller doses considering I am "bulking."


no idea to be honest. I'm going to play with the dosing, probably start at 50 to 100mcg. Yes, synephrine is _the_ key player in that formula. But I will not be using it after the cut. I'll know for sure once I have long term experience with it, so far so good though. But I think it's best used on a need-for basis.

----------


## bdos

Di Arginine Malate any thoughts on this supp supposedly better absorbsion rate than plain L-Arginine

----------


## austinite

Yes, anything Malate will do better.

----------


## bdos

ok thanks

----------


## MajorPectorial

> Yeah, just been busy with real life stuff. But I will get to it soon. Hopefully this week. Don't go crazy spending all your money, lol, my protocol is extreme and you don't need that much. Use wisely. 
> 
> lol, hardcore! sound gross! I don't know any facts but I'd probably research any effects of doing that on your teeth.


Lmao. Oh. No. Lol I don't advise it really. Mind u. It'd probably kill of and damn bacteria hidden in there. Or if u accidently breath in half way. Lololol. I now get every guest to try it....... without water. Lololol. They soon run for it;+);+) yeh. I'm a China ship man myself. Bulk powders are cheaper for some. N others not worth it in my experience. Bcaas aren't too cheap

----------


## austinite

I made a Citrulline grape popsicle today. Mmmm.

----------


## Doom44

> I made a Citrulline grape popsicle today. Mmmm.


O.o. How you made it? Recipe please,

----------


## MajorPectorial

> I made a Citrulline grape popsicle today. Mmmm.


Sounds cool (harhar). Hey. I lmao earlier my old man spent the day with me n my daughter (fathers day UK). Anyways. Me n my daughter went to local music festival n something I ain't done since mid school. Messed around wiv some clay. I made a damn fine looking camel haha Inc reins. Saddle. Stirrup n then the mayor n lady walked in. So funny. I offered him a seat to join in hahaha. Now that woulda been a laff. 
Anyways got home n one of my old mans fingers was white. No circulation. I thought hey maybe l citrulline... well. One funny face n 15mins later finger was back to normal!! Natural? Or from the amino u think?. I've not had ANY bad circulation probs since using it...

----------


## austinite

> Sounds cool (harhar). Hey. I lmao earlier my old man spent the day with me n my daughter (fathers day UK). Anyways. Me n my daughter went to local music festival n something I ain't done since mid school. Messed around wiv some clay. I made a damn fine looking camel haha Inc reins. Saddle. Stirrup n then the mayor n lady walked in. So funny. I offered him a seat to join in hahaha. Now that woulda been a laff. 
> Anyways got home n one of my old mans fingers was white. No circulation. I thought hey maybe l citrulline... well. One funny face n 15mins later finger was back to normal!! Natural? Or from the amino u think?. I've not had ANY bad circulation probs since using it...


Weird. I mean, yeah... Citrulline will help right away, but I wonder how that happened in the first place! Glad it worked!

----------


## austinite

> O.o. How you made it? Recipe please,


haha. Simple. I just put 3 grams powder into a cup of water with grape powder mix and shook it up. Poured it into small styrofoam cups and froze it  :Smilie:

----------


## MajorPectorial

Oh he said he's had it since he had to have pins in his hands. He was carrying some bits with me n my daughter n the missus. Even he looked pretty shocked how quick it worked!. Tbh. I used to regularly get pins n needles in couple of my big toes n numbness I haven't exp since either

----------


## austinite

> Oh he said he's had it since he had to have pins in his hands. He was carrying some bits with me n my daughter n the missus. Even he looked pretty shocked how quick it worked!. Tbh. I used to regularly get pins n needles in couple of my big toes n numbness I haven't exp since either


Good to hear man. I'm glad it's working. Nothing like a prescription-free remedy.

----------


## probuild42

Great read!! My brain hurts now. I will have to read a few more times to absorb and will be adding to my supp list. 

I'm curios how you keep this all organized? I picture a Plano tackle box that is loaded and labeled. lol.

----------


## austinite

> Great read!! My brain hurts now. I will have to read a few more times to absorb and will be adding to my supp list. 
> 
> I'm curios how you keep this all organized? I picture a Plano tackle box that is loaded and labeled. lol.


I used to prefill them into a tackle box. Then I just had a bunch of bottles on the counter. You get pretty used to it. But now most of it is in powder form and have my mixes for AM/PM and preworkout done. I just pour it in water and drink it.

----------


## ppwc1985

Curious as to what you think of CVS brand since I see you have some. Quality ? I use their vitamins.

----------


## austinite

> Curious as to what you think of CVS brand since I see you have some. Quality ? I use their vitamins.


Never tried them. Never been hot on brick & mortar store brands.

----------


## ppwc1985

> Never tried them. Never been hot on brick & mortar store brands.


Oic so the picture you posted wasn't yours, because that's cvs brand vit c?

----------


## austinite

> Oic so the picture you posted wasn't yours, because that's cvs brand vit c?


For vitamin C? That's just C, no biggie. You can't take too much or too little so no harm done. I don't use tabs anymore, I use powder, raw. I wouldn't count on CVS amino acids tho. NOW brand is what you want.

----------


## ppwc1985

> For vitamin C? That's just C, no biggie. You can't take too much or too little so no harm done. I don't use tabs anymore, I use powder, raw. I wouldn't count on CVS amino acids tho. NOW brand is what you want.


I meant vitamins, yea I always use genesis for my Aminos.

----------


## austinite

> I meant vitamins, yea I always use genesis for my Aminos.


Yeah, vitamins are generally cheap so there typically isn't any issues with production. Oral B12 is the only one I would avoid in CVS brand.

----------


## ppwc1985

> Yeah, vitamins are generally cheap so there typically isn't any issues with production. Oral B12 is the only one I would avoid in CVS brand.


Ok thks

----------


## Doom44

Aust do you take any joint support supplement?

----------


## austinite

> Aust do you take any joint support supplement?


Yes. Nandrolone , year round.

----------


## Doom44

> Yes. Nandrolone, year round.



If the person not on AAS what you suggest ?

----------


## austinite

> If the person not on AAS what you suggest ?


2 grams of Burdock Root.

----------


## Doom44

> 2 grams of Burdock Root.


Seriously man. You know a lots !!!! . Glad that have you here. Thanks mate.

----------


## dev0001

Austinity i am become really great fan of your's...

You knowledge is very high about supplement hope you are here and i hired you as my personal trainer...

Thanks for share this with us AUSTINITY.

----------


## austinite

> Seriously man. You know a lots !!!! . Glad that have you here. Thanks mate.







> Austinity i am become really great fan of your's...
> 
> You knowledge is very high about supplement hope you are here and i hired you as my personal trainer...
> 
> Thanks for share this with us AUSTINITY.


I appreciate the kind words guys. Stay powerful, friends!

----------


## AnabolicDoc

Can we all call you AUSTINITY from now on?

And burdock root, really (not doubting u, just never heard of it)? Why is glucosamine and MSM pushed so much for joint problems?

----------


## austinite

> Can we all call you AUSTINITY from now on?
> 
> And burdock root, really (not doubting u, just never heard of it)? Why is glucosamine and MSM pushed so much for joint problems?


Glucosamine doesn't work for me. It did a long time ago but not anymore for some reason. MSM works but makes me itch. 

They're touted so much because no one really wants to do any research, trial and error. So once it's announced that it works... the herd follows, forever!

I've used Burdock root when needed. Not lately because I've been running 100mg of deca weekly. But prior to Deca, Burdock root worked great for me. Certainly not for severe cases, but neither is MSM. You can't spell Bur*doc*k without DOC!

----------


## Sfla80

Aust, maybe I missed it, but do you have any suggestions for kidney support or a flush of sorts? Had stone issues a lot before and yesterday urine was very very dark again. Almost like coke (soda). Was only the one time, but every time I see that it makes me nervous. I've upped my water intake. 

But also some of my water intake includes the green tea packets (no cals or sugars) to my water bottle. 

Thank you sir

----------


## AnabolicDoc

> You can't spell Burdock without DOC!


Lol, very witty AUSTINITY! :-)

----------


## austinite

> Lol, very witty AUSTINITY! :-)


lmao. Great. now it's gonna stick, like Glucosamine.

----------


## austinite

> Aust, maybe I missed it, but do you have any suggestions for kidney support or a flush of sorts? Had stone issues a lot before and yesterday urine was very very dark again. Almost like coke (soda). Was only the one time, but every time I see that it makes me nervous. I've upped my water intake. 
> 
> But also some of my water intake includes the green tea packets (no cals or sugars) to my water bottle. 
> 
> Thank you sir


Yes, NAC [N-Acetyl Cysteine] ... 600mg daily. Year round. Green tea is great to add to liquid intake. good call!

----------


## AnabolicDoc

> Aust, maybe I missed it, but do you have any suggestions for kidney support or a flush of sorts? Had stone issues a lot before and yesterday urine was very very dark again. Almost like coke (soda). Was only the one time, but every time I see that it makes me nervous. I've upped my water intake.
> 
> But also some of my water intake includes the green tea packets (no cals or sugars) to my water bottle.
> 
> Thank you sir


I'm not trying to answer for Austin, but you need to tell him what kind of kidney stones you've had. They don't all respond to the same treatment - for instance, some respond to urinary acidification, some to certain diuretics, and so forth. Also, if you had calcium (likely calcium oxalate stones), he would need to know if you have familial hypercalciuric hypocalcemia (basically, you pee out too much calcium).

----------


## Sfla80

> Yes, NAC [N-Acetyl Cysteine] ... 600mg daily. Year round. Green tea is great to add to liquid intake. good call!


Ok already taking 1200mg NAC a day, because im on cycle, might even bump to 1800mg because I just started m winny on Monday.




> I'm not trying to answer for Austin, but you need to tell him what kind of kidney stones you've had. They don't all respond to the same treatment - for instance, some respond to urinary acidification, some to certain diuretics, and so forth. Also, if you had calcium (likely calcium oxalate stones), he would need to know if you have familial hypercalciuric hypocalcemia (basically, you pee out too much calcium).


Theres my other problem Doc, is I have had 5 in unde two years (My dad had them cronically when he was my age also) is that I have actually never passed one, I think I did the last time, but after a week and a half peeing into a strainer I stopped and gave up. The pain was too much at the last one. Xrays and CAT scans show that I always have very small stones in there all the time. They counted 5 last time. Plus the large one I had that was 5cm (or whatever unit of measure it was).

Knowing myself, I think the cause was calcium and dehydration. I have very bad reflux and constantly taking TUMS, which I have tried to stop and tak the one a days, but most have not been successful with helping the reflux yet. Doc wants me to keep trying then we will futher go into detail if it continues. 

It has been clear all day today, but like I said I see the darkness and freaks me out. If u ever had a stone u know the pain. And the last one I had lasted 2 weeks almost, with the pain intensifying the entire time. Pain meds they sent me home didn't even touch the pain. So hence why I freak out when I see it. 

Thanks again guys for the help. Anny other advise is welcome too.

----------


## austinite

Well, I finally got approved for purchasing B12 methylcobalamin powder. Wow, that was a task. The screening process is insane. They interviewed me over the phone for about 10 minutes. Asked me the exact model of scale I will be using. Administration method, if I planned to make an injectable, daily usage, etc... They even quizzed me on some measurements and conversions. Asked me what other compounds interact adversely with methyl... the list goes on.

Finally, they emailed an application, which requested my business license and everything else to determine I was legit. What an ordeal. Anyway, I was approved and the powders are on the way! Big order coming in.

----------


## MuscleInk

> Well, I finally got approved for purchasing B12 methylcobalamin powder. Wow, that was a task. The screening process is insane. They interviewed me over the phone for about 10 minutes. Asked me the exact model of scale I will be using. Administration method, if I planned to make an injectable, daily usage, etc... They even quizzed me on some measurements and conversions. Asked me what other compounds interact adversely with methyl... the list goes on.
> 
> Finally, they emailed an application, which requested my business license and everything else to determine I was legit. What an ordeal. Anyway, I was approved and the powders are on the way! Big order coming in.


That's crazy! Should have just told them your mom is DLB!!!!  :Wink:

----------


## basketballfan22

> Well, I finally got approved for purchasing B12 methylcobalamin powder. Wow, that was a task. The screening process is insane. They interviewed me over the phone for about 10 minutes. Asked me the exact model of scale I will be using. Administration method, if I planned to make an injectable, daily usage, etc... They even quizzed me on some measurements and conversions. Asked me what other compounds interact adversely with methyl... the list goes on.
> 
> Finally, they emailed an application, which requested my business license and everything else to determine I was legit. What an ordeal. Anyway, I was approved and the powders are on the way! Big order coming in.


You lucky bastard! How much did it cost you? I know the answer is going to make me hate you more; but I have to know, lol.

----------


## austinite

> You lucky bastard! How much did it cost you? I know the answer is going to make me hate you more; but I have to know, lol.


Very expensive. Very, very expensive.

----------


## basketballfan22

> Very expensive. Very, very expensive.


Lol, I appreciate your dishonesty.

----------


## austinite

> Lol, I appreciate your dishonesty.


$2,200 for 300 grams.

----------


## MuscleInk

> $2,200 for 300 grams.


Good heavens! Are you sure that "powder" is B12!?!?!?!

----------


## austinite

> Good heavens! Are you sure that "powder" is B12!?!?!?!


lol. Not only that, I am now suspecting that Methyl tabs on the market are full of fillers. I don't see how they can pack that much into those little pills. But I'll know soon. This stuff in raw form is not cheap. You can compare injectable, you can get cyan for $20, same vial with Methyl is closer to $200.

----------


## basketballfan22

> $2,200 for 300 grams.


Damn, that is a lot up front; but it is WAY cheaper in the long run. My injectable costs ≈$9,666.33 per gram compared to your ≈$7.33 per gram.

----------


## AnabolicDoc

> Ok already taking 1200mg NAC a day, because im on cycle, might even bump to 1800mg because I just started m winny on Monday.
> 
> Theres my other problem Doc, is I have had 5 in unde two years (My dad had them cronically when he was my age also) is that I have actually never passed one, I think I did the last time, but after a week and a half peeing into a strainer I stopped and gave up. The pain was too much at the last one. Xrays and CAT scans show that I always have very small stones in there all the time. They counted 5 last time. Plus the large one I had that was 5cm (or whatever unit of measure it was).
> 
> Knowing myself, I think the cause was calcium and dehydration. I have very bad reflux and constantly taking TUMS, which I have tried to stop and tak the one a days, but most have not been successful with helping the reflux yet. Doc wants me to keep trying then we will futher go into detail if it continues.
> 
> It has been clear all day today, but like I said I see the darkness and freaks me out. If u ever had a stone u know the pain. And the last one I had lasted 2 weeks almost, with the pain intensifying the entire time. Pain meds they sent me home didn't even touch the pain. So hence why I freak out when I see it.
> 
> Thanks again guys for the help. Anny other advise is welcome too.


Why has your doc had you on tums for so long without trying a PPI (like Prilosec or Nexium)? I take tums occasionally too but believe it or not some studies show that those types of antacids don't actually help reflux symptoms. I personally don't understand that bc of I'm having heartburn and I take a tums it goes away. It may come back in an hour or so but I usually take a generic Prilosec with it which kicks in by then. 

So you've never passed a stone but you had a 5cm one. Was it surgically removed? Were you given any medical treatment or lithotripsy? Considering your dad had this problem, and that a cause was never identified (although it could be from excessive use of tums) bc the type of stone was never identified, at the very least you should have had a 24 hour urine collection to look at how much calcium you excrete. If you google familial hypercalciuric hypocalcemia you'll learn more about it.

You can't just assume that all dark amber urine is from a kidney stone unless you have been recently diagnosed with one. Plz see your doc, preferably a urologist and if you've been seeing one with no results then get a second opinion. It never hurts and most docs, that are secure in their practice, would welcome the additional point of view. Just make sure you bring all prior lab work and imaging that's applies to your stones.

----------


## Sfla80

> Why has your doc had you on tums for so long without trying a PPI (like Prilosec or Nexium)? I take tums occasionally too but believe it or not some studies show that those types of antacids don't actually help reflux symptoms. I personally don't understand that bc of I'm having heartburn and I take a tums it goes away. It may come back in an hour or so but I usually take a generic Prilosec with it which kicks in by then.
> 
> So you've never passed a stone but you had a 5cm one. Was it surgically removed? Were you given any medical treatment or lithotripsy? Considering your dad had this problem, and that a cause was never identified (although it could be from excessive use of tums) bc the type of stone was never identified, at the very least you should have had a 24 hour urine collection to look at how much calcium you excrete. If you google familial hypercalciuric hypocalcemia you'll learn more about it.
> 
> You can't just assume that all dark amber urine is from a kidney stone unless you have been recently diagnosed with one. Plz see your doc, preferably a urologist and if you've been seeing one with no results then get a second opinion. It never hurts and most docs, that are secure in their practice, would welcome the additional point of view. Just make sure you bring all prior lab work and imaging that's applies to your stones.


Thanks doc. Don't wanna take this thread away from its purpose. So wont go into more detail

----------


## AnabolicDoc

Good call, I didn't even realize. Feel free to PM me. I'm really sorry Austinite. Can admin maybe remove my posts above? If not I can just delete all the text.

----------


## Joe7

> Ok already taking 1200mg NAC a day, because im on cycle, might even bump to 1800mg because I just started m winny on Monday.
> 
> Theres my other problem Doc, is I have had 5 in unde two years (My dad had them cronically when he was my age also) is that I have actually never passed one, I think I did the last time, but after a week and a half peeing into a strainer I stopped and gave up. The pain was too much at the last one. Xrays and CAT scans show that I always have very small stones in there all the time. They counted 5 last time. Plus the large one I had that was 5cm (or whatever unit of measure it was).
> 
> Knowing myself, I think the cause was calcium and dehydration. I have very bad reflux and constantly taking TUMS, which I have tried to stop and tak the one a days, but most have not been successful with helping the reflux yet. Doc wants me to keep trying then we will futher go into detail if it continues.
> 
> It has been clear all day today, but like I said I see the darkness and freaks me out. If u ever had a stone u know the pain. And the last one I had lasted 2 weeks almost, with the pain intensifying the entire time. Pain meds they sent me home didn't even touch the pain. So hence why I freak out when I see it.
> 
> Thanks again guys for the help. Anny other advise is welcome too.


My dad sufers from stones and I found a remedy online that works like magic. Google it. You have to eat sparagus and drink 1 liter of coke . I know it sounds funny but it works. For some reason it creates a chemical reaction that disintegrates kidney stones. Again google it, Let me know if it works. Its worked on my dad , aunt and mother in law.

----------


## austinite

> Good call, I didn't even realize. Feel free to PM me. I'm really sorry Austinite. Can admin maybe remove my posts above? If not I can just delete all the text.


No worries man. Great, useful info. Thanks  :Smilie:

----------


## OnTheSauce

Holy crap dude

----------


## austinite

*Liver Support:** NAC* *vs.** UDCA*

These two are probably the most mentioned liver supporting drugs around forums. I'll discuss the two drugs so that you can make a more informed decision. Please note that there are other great liver support methods but these are the ones I chose to compare. I will not be making any comparisons to other drugs. Please refrain from asking for reviews and/or comparisons to other drugs. These are the only two that I have ever used. 

*UDCA:* Ursodeoxycholic acid 

_TUDCA is the same except it contains Taurine, hence the T. Taurine benefits will not be discussed, the following is in reference to UDCA only. 
_
UDCA is a bile acid. (bear bile) - Pharm grade is manufactured and is not bear bile. This drug is very effective. However, my recommendation would be to use this drug for conditions such as gallstones, mainly cholesterol generated stones. I also recommend this as a preventative measure for those who are overweight and losing weight rapidly. These are natural occurrences that happen in your body. There is a reason why this drug is an Rx drug. It's used for serious conditions such as Cirrhosis of the liver, Chronic liver disease and even liver transplants rely on it to prevent rejection.

The way UDCA works is by increasing bile flow from the gallbladder to the intestine. Bile is quite toxic if flow is hindered. It decreases the amount of cholesterol your liver generates and decreases cholesterol from food. This is why it's such a great drug for preventing cholesterol stones. 

Now, I know everyone is thinking of that other thread about liver protection and how it says nothing is greater. However, that thread also says there has been research on liver protection from steroids using UDCA. Please take special note of the word "research", not study. The reason I mention this is because I do not recommend long-term use of UDCA. Especially in steroid -induced liver damage cases from long cycles. If you use it, it's best used on cycle and discontinued. Either way, we know it works.

In conclusion: Yes, UDCA is very effective for use while on a steroid cycle. However, it's use is limited and does not offer benefits in other areas.


*NAC:* N-Acetyl Cysteine

NAC is derived from the Amino Acid; L-Cysteine. Most of you already know that this Over the Counter product is my choice. It's readily available and it's cheap. You take it for your liver, but NAC's uses and areas of benefit would shock even some of the more educated users. I'll go as far as saying many doctors are unaware of how powerful this drug really is. Let's have a look...

I'll cover the liver first since that's the main concern for us. NAC can prevent all types of damage to the liver. Whether it's alcohol damage or steroid-induced damage. NAC is a precursor for Glutathione, one of the most powerful antioxidants available in our bodies and it's very stable. Similar to UDCA, it also provides aid in bile flow and lowers elevated enzymes. Not quite as effective in the presence of stones, however, can be an effective preventative measure for cholesterol generated stones. 

Here's a list of benefits NAC can provide your body:

*01.* Powerful antioxidant
*02.* Counteracts poisons (carbon monoxide, acetaminophen)
*03.* Treats Lung infections (bronchitis, influenza, obstructive pulmonary... yes, even you dang smokers)
*04.* Treats acute liver failure
*05.* Treats Ear infections
*06.* Lowers cholesterol
*07.* Increased immunity
*08.* Has a role in Energy
*09.* Aids with psychiatric conditions (depression, obsession, addictions)
*10.* Prevents kidney stones
*11.* Protects muscle tissue (post workout recovery)
*12.* Improves insulin sensitivity (gbrice!)
*13.* Treats stomach infections 
*14.* Defends against stomach-ulcer causing bacteria.
*15.* Seriously? You're still reading? Go get some NAC!

This is why I choose NAC. It will protect my liver just as good as UDCA, but its overall benefits are unbelievable. 

Doses up to 2000mg daily for prolonged periods have shown no ill effects. Doses up to 2800mg were proven safe for several months. However, we want to use NAC year round. 

*How to dose NAC:*

600mg daily year round. Increase to 1200mg for an injectable steroid cycle. Increase to 1800mg - 2400mg in the presence of oral steroids . Obviously use the lower dose for mildly toxic steroids such as Anavar , and the heavier dose for toxic steroids such as Dianabol . 

To link to this post direct: Copy this link. I've also included a direct link in the original post at the very top. 

_Stay powerful, folks._

----------


## Doom44

another great post !!  :Smilie:

----------


## Joe7

Austinite, you rock man . Tks awesome info.

----------


## Misery13

Hey brother, please disregard the PM I sent you last night. I figured it out. I dug out every form of measuring I have. Tablespoons, teaspoons, etc.. Measure and weigh... Measure and weigh... However there's a sticky in the Anabolic labs sections on how to cap your own AAS. I think that someone that's mastered capping their own OTC supplements should post a... How to cap your own amino's, vitamins etc... With easy math formula's too. And since you have changed from capping to mixing it in water, maybe a brief overview on that as well. 
Please and thank you.
Stayed up and read all 14 pages last night, but I'm sure that I will still have to just print it out and put it into a three ring binder for later use.

----------


## Misery13

Balls... I forgot that I had a question...

HGW...
Which do you recommend... Epimedium or icariin? 

Or both 

And why?

----------


## basketballfan22

> Balls... I forgot that I had a question...
> 
> HGW...
> Which do you recommend... Epimedium or icariin? 
> 
> Or both 
> 
> And why?


Horny goat weed (HGW) is a common name for the plants in the genus _Epimedium_; therefore they are equivalent. Icariin is a compound derived from HGW. If I recall correctly, icariin is the compound in HGW that is primarily responsible for the reputed health benefits. In other words, if you buy HGW; then you are automatically getting _Epimedium_ and icariin. Some products of HGW may add additional icariin however.

----------


## Misery13

> Horny goat weed (HGW) is a common name for the plants in the genus _Epimedium_; therefore they are equivalent. Icariin is a compound derived from HGW. If I recall correctly, icariin is the compound in HGW that is primarily responsible for the reputed health benefits. In other words, if you buy HGW; then you are automatically getting _Epimedium_ and icariin. Some products of HGW may add additional icariin however.


Awesome thank you. I see all those questions you asked on this thread have paid off... But I plan to cap my own so I will go with both.

----------


## basketballfan22

> Awesome thank you. I see all those questions you asked on this thread have paid off... But I plan to cap my own so I will go with both.


Haha, yeah. I still don't understand what you mean about capping both though. From what I am aware of, no company makes and sells pure icariin; therefore you should only be buying one supplement, HGW. In this one supplement, there will be icariin in it.

----------


## Misery13

> Haha, yeah. I still don't understand what you mean about capping both though. From what I am aware of, no company makes and sells pure icariin; therefore you should only be buying one supplement, HGW. In this one supplement, there will be icariin in it.


I'm going to get both powders, mix them together and cap them (make my own pills). Which is what this whole thread is about....lol.

----------


## basketballfan22

> I'm going to get both powders, mix them together and cap them (make my own pills). Which is what this whole thread is about....lol.


Okay, I think this is going to continue circularly, lol. Do you have links to both powders (the actual products you plan on buying)? I think we can end this confusion if you post what two supplements you are talking about.

----------


## Misery13

> Okay, I think this is going to continue circularly, lol. Do you have links to both powders (the actual products you plan on buying)? I think we can end this confusion if you post what two supplements you are talking about.


I just ordered 1lb of epimedium powder from amazon.

----------


## energizer bunny

austinite

would there be any reason not to take vit c, vit e, vit d and methyl B12 post training for recovery (from intense mma and muay thai training) with my whey isolate and carbs?

if so how and when would you recommend i take them? 

cheers

----------


## austinite

> austinite
> 
> would there be any reason not to take vit c, vit e, vit d and methyl B12 post training for recovery (from intense mma and muay thai training) with my whey isolate and carbs?
> 
> if so how and when would you recommend i take them? 
> 
> cheers


Just vitamin C to control elevated cortisol levels.

----------


## RaginCajun

hey aust, I am training sometimes twice a day and wanting to know if I should do your pre-/post workout supplements twice or only once. just started them yesterday and really liked the focus I had this morning. only thing I saw that I was missing was l-methionine from the pre-worklout stack. I also included your fat loss stack with these and had no jitters at all this morning, and they were all taken on am empty stomach and I did fasted cardio this morning and felt like I had more energy still in the tank!

----------


## austinite

> hey aust, I am training sometimes twice a day and wanting to know if I should do your pre-/post workout supplements twice or only once. just started them yesterday and really liked the focus I had this morning. only thing I saw that I was missing was l-methionine from the pre-worklout stack. I also included your fat loss stack with these and had no jitters at all this morning, and they were all taken on am empty stomach and I did fasted cardio this morning and felt like I had more energy still in the tank!


Hey RC,

I'm guessing you're doing cardio for one of these sessions. Or are you doing resistance training twice daily? I would just do it prior to resistance training. Post workouts you can do all the time. But I'm curious what you're doing twice daily at the gym.

----------


## KRL

awesome this!

----------


## RaginCajun

> Hey RC,
> 
> I'm guessing you're doing cardio for one of these sessions. Or are you doing resistance training twice daily? I would just do it prior to resistance training. Post workouts you can do all the time. But I'm curious what you're doing twice daily at the gym.


yes, you are correct. one is usually a weight/resistance training and the other is cardio (usually a road bike ride in which I incorporate some sprints, try to do 20 miles in an hour for now). i am just doing the NAC and Vit C. post workout. just wondering if the other preworkout was an overkill. thanks! 

i actually have supplemented up to 10g daily of Vit C and really felt good. there was an old thread in the nutrition section (maybe 2 years ago?) about a guy doing over 13g a day and was really loving the health benefits. i try to take at least 3g a day, and to note, i am the only one not sniffling in my office!

----------


## austinite

> yes, you are correct. one is usually a weight/resistance training and the other is cardio (usually a road bike ride in which I incorporate some sprints, try to do 20 miles in an hour for now). i am just doing the NAC and Vit C. post workout. just wondering if the other preworkout was an overkill. thanks! 
> 
> i actually have supplemented up to 10g daily of Vit C and really felt good. there was an old thread in the nutrition section (maybe 2 years ago?) about a guy doing over 13g a day and was really loving the health benefits. i try to take at least 3g a day, and to note, i am the only one not sniffling in my office!


dang. That much vitamin C will hinder B12 absorption. Which is vital.

----------


## krugerr

> dang. That much vitamin C will hinder B12 absorption. Which is vital.


What the upper limit to Vit-C dosing in your opinion Aust? I tend to go 3-5g daily depending how I feel. I hadn't realised it effected B12 usage.

----------


## Joe7

Austinite, do you mind reposting your fat loss stack again. I'm sorry but I looked all over and couldn't find it.

----------


## austinite

> Austinite, do you mind reposting your fat loss stack again. I'm sorry but I looked all over and couldn't find it.


Go to the original post. links to other articles are at the top.

On my phone. Can't post links.

----------


## AnabolicDoc

> dang. That much vitamin C will hinder B12 absorption. Which is vital.


and causes hypervitaminosis C, which comes with its own set of symptoms.

----------


## austinite

Say hello to methylcobolamin...

----------


## basketballfan22

> Say hello to methylcobolamin...


I am excited to hear any updates about this. Have you decided how you will administer it yet? I know you were contemplating intravenously.

----------


## austinite

> I am excited to hear any updates about this. Have you decided how you will administer it yet? I know you were contemplating intravenously.


I'm excited, too! I'm going to start IM for now because I just had a visit with the Endo today and she changed my TRT protocol, so it's easier IM to combine deca /test/B12. too much for subq. 

However, I'm just going to do this until I see if I notice a difference. Once I get that figured out I'm going to run it IV for a while. 

Also getting a 300,000 iu vitamin D shot on monday. That should be interesting.

----------


## basketballfan22

> I'm excited, too! I'm going to start IM for now because I just had a visit with the Endo today and she changed my TRT protocol, so it's easier IM to combine deca /test/B12. too much for subq. 
> 
> However, I'm just going to do this until I see if I notice a difference. Once I get that figured out I'm going to run it IV for a while. 
> 
> Also getting a 300,000 iu vitamin D shot on monday. That should be interesting.


Dear Lord sir! A 300,000 IU shot of vitamin D? That's insane. I take it your megadoses of vitamin D have not significantly improved your vitamin D levels then? Do you have a lot of experience administering shots intravenously? Isn't that a lot more difficult?

Also, whatever happened to your podcasts?

----------


## austinite

> Dear Lord sir! A 300,000 IU shot of vitamin D? That's insane. I take it your megadoses of vitamin D have not significantly improved your vitamin D levels then? Do you have a lot of experience administering shots intravenously? Isn't that a lot more difficult?
> 
> Also, whatever happened to your podcasts?


That's what I thought. Then kelkel referred me to some studies showing 600k iu shots. Seems its good enough to dose once every 6 months. Orals dont work for me no matter what. 

Podcasts will be coming soon. Just have so much on my plate right now.

----------


## DexterMorgan

Awesome thread. Looks like I need to take more vitamins.
I'm currently taking B Complex by Jarrow, D3, Calcium, Zinc, Vitamin E and Fish oil

What would you say is a good dose for Vitamin E? 

I thought I was taking too many vitamins lol.

----------


## austinite

> Awesome thread. Looks like I need to take more vitamins.
> I'm currently taking B Complex by Jarrow, D3, Calcium, Zinc, Vitamin E and Fish oil
> 
> What would you say is a good dose for Vitamin E? 
> 
> I thought I was taking too many vitamins lol.


^ good set supplements you got there man. 

If you get basic Vitamin E, 400 iu is good. If you get the prefered Vitamin E tocopherols, 90 iu.

----------


## DexterMorgan

> ^ good set supplements you got there man. 
> 
> If you get basic Vitamin E, 400 iu is good. If you get the prefered Vitamin E tocopherols, 90 iu.


Okay I been taking 400iu. Looks like I got the basic one it says dl-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate, and Glycerin. 
Thanx Austinite

----------


## austinite

> Okay I been taking 400iu. Looks like I got the basic one it says dl-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate, and Glycerin. 
> Thanx Austinite


Perfect!

----------


## energizer bunny

Austinite

here is my supplement schedule for the next 2.5 month to try and get testosterone to rise and my RBC to rise.

Vit C 3000mg per day......morning,after train and before bed
Vit E 800iu per day..........morning and before bed
Vit D3 5000iu per day......morning
Vit B12 methyl 2000mcg per day....morning and night
Magnesium citrate 450mg per day..morning and night
Zinc citrate 50mg per day per day..night
super strength omega 3 6gram per day.....morning and night
Udos oil.......2 table spoons.....night

hows that for my goals? would you up the dose of any? lower the dose? change timings? add anything (money is an issue)

cheers

----------


## austinite

> Austinite
> 
> here is my supplement schedule for the next 2.5 month to try and get testosterone to rise and my RBC to rise.
> 
> Vit C 3000mg per day......morning,after train and before bed
> Vit E 800iu per day..........morning and before bed
> Vit D3 5000iu per day......morning
> Vit B12 methyl 2000mcg per day....morning and night
> Magnesium citrate 450mg per day..morning and night
> ...


That looks great, EB! the only mineral I see missig is copper. You can get a copper/zinc mix to save money. Wait until you run out of zinc. 50mg zinc with 2mg copper is a great ratio.

* copper levels drop when zinc and vitamin C are used by the body.

----------


## energizer bunny

> That looks great, EB! the only mineral I see missig is copper. You can get a copper/zinc mix to save money. Wait until you run out of zinc. 50mg zinc with 2mg copper is a great ratio.
> 
> * copper levels drop when zinc and vitamin C are used by the body.


cheers mate, I will add copper.

----------


## torrential

Austinite, 

If I could, I would have PM'd you. I have concerns about taking zinc and copper together. Have you heard of this effect, where high dose zinc knocks out copper:

_High intake of zinc induces the intestinal synthesis of a copper-binding protein called metallothionein. Metallothionein traps copper within intestinal cells and prevents its systemic absorption. More typical intakes of zinc do not affect copper absorption and high copper intakes do not affect zinc absorption_

I can't post a URL but the reference is from the Linus Pauling Institute at Oregon State University, Micronutrient Information Center, Minerals, Zinc. 

High dose zinc "protects" us from heavy metals including environmental copper (tap water, food, etc.) making supplementation essential for us. FWIW, I take my 2mg copper in the morning and my 50mg zinc at night.

----------


## austinite

> Austinite, 
> 
> If I could, I would have PM'd you. I have concerns about taking zinc and copper together. Have you heard of this effect, where high dose zinc knocks out copper:
> 
> _High intake of zinc induces the intestinal synthesis of a copper-binding protein called metallothionein. Metallothionein traps copper within intestinal cells and prevents its systemic absorption. More typical intakes of zinc do not affect copper absorption and high copper intakes do not affect zinc absorption_
> 
> I can't post a URL but the reference is from the Linus Pauling Institute at Oregon State University, Micronutrient Information Center, Minerals, Zinc. 
> 
> High dose zinc "protects" us from heavy metals including environmental copper (tap water, food, etc.) making supplementation essential for us. FWIW, I take my 2mg copper in the morning and my 50mg zinc at night.


Yes, this has been discussed in this thread heavily. 

Zinc at 50mg is not a high dose. There is no interference whatsoever. Even if it did, which it does not... Vitamin E protects copper. Count on NAC to protect you from heavy metals, not Zinc. Take it whenever, don't overthink it. No harm is done.

----------


## torrential

Thanks Austinite. I read and searched but still managed to miss it.

----------


## austinite

> Thanks Austinite. I read and searched but still managed to miss it.


No problem, buddy.

----------


## austinite

*Study: Pycnogenol + L-Arginine = solution for Erectile Dysfunction.*



```
Investigation of a complex plant extract for mild to moderate erectile dysfunction in a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, parallel-arm study.
```

*OBJECTIVE:*
To assess the effects of a complex plant extract (Prelox®, a formulation of pine bark extract and l-arginine aspartate; Horphag Research UK Ltd, London, UK) on erectile dysfunction (ED) in men, as sexual desire typically persists in ageing men, while their erectile and endothelial function gradually declines.

*PATIENTS AND METHODS:*
In this double-blind, placebo-controlled study we assessed the effects of Prelox in 124 patients (aged 30-50 years) with moderate ED over an investigational period of 6 months. The International Index Of Erectile Function (IIEF) was used to quantify changes in sexual function.

*RESULTS:*
The erectile domain of the IIEF (questions 1-5 plus 15) improved with Prelox from a baseline mean (sd) score of 15.2 (6.6) to 25.2 (2.1) after 3 months and 27.1 (2.1) after 6 months of treatment. In the placebo group there was an increase from a baseline score of 15.1 (7.0) to 19.1 (3.0) and 19.0 (3.1) after 3 and 6 months, respectively. The effects with Prelox were statistically significant compared with placebo (P < 0.05). Mean (SD) total plasma testosterone levels increased significantly from 15.9 (2.3) to 18.9 (2.6) nmol/L (P < 0.05) after 6 months with Prelox, compared to an increase from 16.9 (2.4) to 17.3 (2.3) nmol/L in the placebo group.

*CONCLUSION:*
This study shows that Prelox is *effective for improving erectile function*, and that this *effect persists on continuous therapy for up to 6 months*. Moreover, there is some evidence that erectile function *continues to improve the longer the therapy* is used.

_PMID: 20184576_

----------


## Java Man

I injected 1mg B complex (1mg b-12 plus ancillary b vitamins in various amounts) human grade. IM. This morning. I'm starving even though I have been eating normally today. I don't feel full like I usually do. Is this what injecting B12 IM feels like or am I just unusually hungry today? It's my 1st time with injectable B12. Always took sub lingual at 5k mcg daily before.

----------


## austinite

> I injected 1mg B complex (1mg b-12 plus ancillary b vitamins in various amounts) human grade. IM. This morning. I'm starving even though I have been eating normally today. I don't feel full like I usually do. Is this what injecting B12 IM geeks like or am I just unusually hungry today? It's my 1st time with injectable B12. Always took sub lingual at 5k mcg daily before.


LOL! Welcome to "Bulking whether you like it or not". 

What you have is hydroxocobalamin. It must be converted by your body into methyl in order to be functional. The conversion process is certainly better than Cyanocobalamin, so it's superior to Cyano. 

I'm thinking of mixing that with Methyl. So much B12 experimenting lately it's driving me nuts.

----------


## Java Man

Lol. Awesome. Why didn't I try this 20yrs ago. I've been throwing my $ away on oral B12 for years!

----------


## austinite

> Lol. Awesome. Why didn't I try this 20yrs ago. I've been throwing my $ away on oral B12 for years!


Does it sting a little? some folks don't complain but lots of people say hydroxy stings. 

Yeah, anyone that says orals are comparable is lying to ya.

----------


## Java Man

Yes but nothing like pip from some AAS I've done. It's 1.5% ba so I expected it to sting a little, oral B is useless compared to this. Night and day man.

----------


## Java Man

an interesting excerpt from the wiki page on hydroxocobalamin:




> * Experimental uses as nitric oxide scavenger and anti-inflammatory
> *
> Hydroxycobalamin is a scavenger of nitric oxide, as well as cyanide, and has been used experimentally to modify nitric oxide-mediated inflammation. For example, a hydoxocobalamin skin creme was found to reduce chronic skin inflammation. [8]
> 
> Hydroxycobalamin has also been used in a pilot-study treatment of migraines, as an inhibitor of nitric oxide-induced vasodilation. [9]


Source:
Hydroxocobalamin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

----------


## basketballfan22

> an interesting excerpt from the wiki page on hydroxocobalamin:
> 
> 
> 
> Source:
> Hydroxocobalamin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I am glad you posted that because I was just going to inquire about the advantages of hydroxocobalamin. If your body converts this to methylcobalamin, I don't understand why one should not just take methylcobalamin.

----------


## austinite

^ Because conversion process does not result in 100% of what you took. So some goes to waste. Anything You take in has to be converted to either Methyl or Adenosyl.

There are several types of B12 that you can use. I'll list them in the most effective order:

1. Methylcobalamin
2. Adenosylcobalamin
3. Hydroxocobalamin
4. Cyanocobalamin

*Methylcobalamin* is more bioactive than any other and obviously does not require conversion by the body to methyl; the form that's most beneficial to support red cells and your nervous system. This one is necessary to break down homocysteine (breakdown of non-protein amino acids).

*Adenosylcobalamin*, the second on the list is really just as effective as Methyl. This is because it's also a form that is useful, as other forms of B12 would have to convert to either Adenosyl or Methyl. This one is a key player in metabolic pathways. 

*Hydroxocobalamin* must be converted by your body into methyl in order to be functional as stated above. The conversion process is certainly better than Cyanocobalamin, which is why it's third on the list. 

*Cyanocobalamin* is the one you find in just about every supplement. One of the reasons for that is because it's cheap to produce; making supplements cost effective, but unfortunately, not result effective. It's named Cyano because it's attached to the cyanide molecule. After the conversion process, very little methyl results.

----------


## basketballfan22

> ^ Because conversion process does not result in 100% of what you took. So some goes to waste. Anything You take in has to be converted to either Methyl or Adenosyl.
> 
> There are several types of B12 that you can use. I'll list them in the most effective order:
> 
> 1. Methylcobalamin
> 2. Adenosylcobalamin
> 3. Hydroxocobalamin
> 4. Cyanocobalamin
> 
> ...


Nah man, that's the point I was making. That's why I asked why would anyone NOT use methylcobalamin. You said you were thinking about combining the two types of B12. I don't understand why when you already have the "best" one.

----------


## austinite

> Nah man, that's the point I was making. That's why I asked why would anyone NOT use methylcobalamin. You said you were thinking about combining the two types of B12. I don't understand why when you already have the "best" one.


Because hydroxy is the one that comes in complex.

----------


## Java Man

> I am glad you posted that because I was just going to inquire about the advantages of hydroxocobalamin. If your body converts this to methylcobalamin, I don't understand why one should not just take methylcobalamin.


its a lot less expensive than methyl for one thing. My supp bill is immense right now so I went with this as the guinea pig. I'll be getting methyl later.

edit: I'll probably mix this hydrxo complex with methyl because I like having the other B's supporting the b12. Thanks Aus!

----------


## basketballfan22

> Because hydroxy is the one that comes in complex.


What do you mean by that?

----------


## austinite

> What do you mean by that?


It contains multiple B vitamins, not just B12.

----------


## basketballfan22

> It contains multiple B vitamins, not just B12.


What ones in particular, and what is the typical vitamin B profile like? The only other one I plan to supplement with is B6 (oral).

----------


## austinite

Depends on who makes it. Here's mine, which is a common blend...

Each ML contains:

1000 mcg of B12 Hydroxy
50 mg of B1
5 mg of B6
5 mg of B2
50 mg of B3
5 mg of B5
25 mg of Methionine
50 mg inositol 
50 mg Choline

----------


## basketballfan22

> Depends on who makes it. Here's mine, which is a common blend...
> 
> Each ML contains:
> 
> 1000 mcg of B12 Hydroxy
> 50 mg of B1
> 5 mg of B6
> 5 mg of B2
> 50 mg of B3
> ...


Aren't those very small doses, especially the vitamin B6 dose? I plan to take 100 mg of B6 every Sunday, granted it will be orally; but still. I know how critical you are of multivitamins because of their small doses, so I am interested in hearing your reasoning for this.

----------


## austinite

> Aren't those very small doses, especially the vitamin B6 dose? I plan to take 100 mg of B6 every Sunday, granted it will be orally; but still. I know how critical you are of multivitamins because of their small doses, so I am interested in hearing your reasoning for this.


Yes, they're small doses, but still effective when injected and enough to support each other. Orals work, but as we've discussed, they will always be limited. It also depends on how frequently you plan on injecting, so in some cases, these doses are not small at all. 

My goal is to eventually rid myself of as many pills as possible. One of these days I'll have a B complex/amino acid mix that I inject once weekly. (I hope!)

----------


## basketballfan22

> Yes, they're small doses, but still effective when injected and enough to support each other. Orals work, but as we've discussed, they will always be limited. It also depends on how frequently you plan on injecting, so in some cases, these doses are not small at all. 
> 
> My goal is to eventually rid myself of as many pills as possible. One of these days I'll have a B complex/amino acid mix that I inject once weekly. (I hope!)


I wish you luck! Is 5 mg IM really comparable to 100 mg orally? You plan to inject B12 only once per week so that means you will only be doing B6 once per week too.

----------


## austinite

> I wish you luck! Is 5 mg IM really comparable to 100 mg orally? You plan to inject B12 only once per week so that means you will only be doing B6 once per week too.


Yes, but this is a pharmacy blend, not my blend. So my blend would be dosed higher. 

It's hard to say if 5mg injected is comparable to 100mg orally. I'd say, considering the poor absorption of orals, and the instant benefit of the injection (which you get 100% of), it's tough to say but I'd say that 10mg would be comparable without a doubt.

----------


## Doom44

Aust what is DHEA function ? thanks

----------


## austinite

> Aust what is DHEA function ? thanks


From the HRT section...

DHEA Supplementation
Dehydroepiandrosterone: DHEA
As presented by Dr. Neal Rouzier, M.D.

Here's a great reason to add DHEA to your protcol.

DHEA is a hormone secreted primarily by the adrenal glands. It results in a shift of a catabolic state to an anabolic or protein building state.

 It reduces cardiovascular risks by increasing lipolyses (decrease visceral fat).
 It stimulates the immune system, restores sexual vitality, improves moods, decreases cholesterol and body fat.
 It improves memory, increases energy, and has anti-cancer properties by enhancing the immune system.
 It is an endocrine precursor to other hormones, prevents immuno-senescence, loss of sleep, osteoporosis, atherosclerosis.
 DHEA reduces insulin requirement
 Adrenal hormone anabolic vs. catabolic metabolism
 Restores immunity
 Prevents osteoporosis, increases bone density
 Prevents cancer in lab animals
 Prevents diabetes & heart disease
 Decreases visceral fat
 Improves mood & well-being
 Improves energy & memory
 Slows aging process in lab animals
 Prevents lipid peroxidation =
antioxidant
 Endocrine precursor to T.P.E.
 7-keto DHEA is not a precursor to other HRT = avoid
 Neurotransmitter (recently discovered)
 Presently pending FDA approval for Lupus (Prasterone)

Clinically substantiated uses of DHEA include replacement for:
 Low DHEA levels
 Chronic disease
 Adrenal exhaustion or corticosteroid therapy
 SLE
 Improving bone density
 Improving depression & mood disorders
 Enhancing immune response by activating T-cells
 Improving well-being
 Decreasing cardiovascular risk
 Improving erectile dysfunction
 Anyone over 40
 DHEA has never been shown to reverse the aging process
 Nevertheless DHEA is important for preventive medicine
 DHEA inhibits synthesis of thromboxane A2, reduces plasminogen activator inhibitor, and tissue plasminogen activator
– all decreasing platelet aggregation and ischemia.

Administraiton:
Men<200lb: 50mg AM
Men>200lb: 75-100mg AM

Women <50yo: 10-15mg AM
Women >50yo: 25mg AM

IMPORTANT:
DHEA Serum Levels
 MEN
 Range 100-600
 Optimal 500-600
WOMEN
 Range 50-300
 Optimal 200-250

Higher levels in women predispose them to side effects – therefore stay low
 Monitor monthly until optimal
 Assure correct dose and compliance
 Measure DHEA-S and not DHEA

 Side effects: acne, hirsutism
 Tx: Lower dose or take QOD Spironolactone 100 mg/day
 Contraindicated in sex hormone responsive tumors – breast, ovarian, uterine, prostate
 Conversion to T.P.E.?
 DHEA raises testosterone levels in women slightly, yet not in men
 DHEA raises estradiol slightly in men

Indications:
 Over age 40 for health protection
 Preventive medicine and well-being
 Symptoms of aging, mood & depression
 ‘Cause the medical literature suggests it if we want to live longer, happier, healthier

DHEA – S04
 MEN Blood levels
 Optimal : 500-600 ug/ml
 Side effects rare in men
WOMEN
 Optimal : 200-250 ug/ml
 Dose based on side effects
 Side effects very common in women

DHEA Dose
 MEN
 Capsule – SR micronized
 50 mg Q am
 >200 lbs – 75 - 100 mg Q am

WOMEN
 Capsule – SR micronized
 10 mg Q am if over 40
 15 mg Q am if over 50
 25 mg Q am if over 60
 If under age 40, do not prescribe due to sensitivity causing side effects.

----------


## Doom44

> From the HRT section...
> 
> DHEA Supplementation
> Dehydroepiandrosterone: DHEA
> As presented by Dr. Neal Rouzier, M.D.
> 
> Here's a great reason to add DHEA to your protcol.
> 
> DHEA is a hormone secreted primarily by the adrenal glands. It results in a shift of a catabolic state to an anabolic or protein building state.
> ...


wow. it look awesome. thanks aust

----------


## RaginCajun

hey aust, is there any way to put/keep your body at a high nitrogen retention level?

I think this is one of my main culprits to my joints aching and making all types of noises.

what are your thoughts on how to achieve this without the help of Nor-19s like Deca ?

----------


## austinite

^ Well yeah, deca will certainly help. I run it year round. Other than that, arginine and glycine are best for nitrogen retention.

----------


## RaginCajun

> ^ Well yeah, deca will certainly help. I run it year round. Other than that, arginine and glycine are best for nitrogen retention.


thanks.

I know I must have some type of deficiency in nitrogen or something. once I get a joint back in place, it pops right back out again. my tendons must be weak also.

----------


## austinite

Have it tested next time you get blood work. Could be unrelated.

----------


## RaginCajun

> Have it tested next time you get blood work. Could be unrelated.


I plan on getting some blood work after this cycle is finished. i have been like that my whole life. seems to be genetic and arthritis runs in both sides of my family and very bad on my father's side. 

what type of 'test/function' would this be under? just regular nitrogen?

----------


## austinite

BUN in a comprehensive metabolic panel.

----------


## belva

I see you are using Maca and Horny Goat Weed. What do you think about Tribulus ?

----------


## austinite

> I see you are using Maca and Horny Goat Weed. What do you think about Tribulus ?


Never used it. Have no need for it really.

----------


## ineedauser

My friend can only find 20mg tablets of cialis. Is 10 mg every other day alright?

----------


## austinite

> My friend can only find 20mg tablets of cialis. Is 10 mg every other day alright?


cut them in half. take 10m per day

----------


## Doom44

austine what you think about Beta-Alanine? is that worth taking?

----------


## austinite

^ Discussed. Page 2 - I think.  :Smilie:

----------


## drake4243

Hey Austinite I am going to be picking up some Cialis from the AR-R website I see you take it from there as well. It seems most people are using 5mg twice a day is that what you recommend. How far apart do you dose 5mg in the morning 5mg late afternoon I would guess? Finally what does that equate to I see its dosed at 30mg per ML how much are you going to on that dropper for 5 mg if thats what you are dosing and recommend I dose. Thanks as always.

----------


## austinite

> Hey Austinite I am going to be picking up some Cialis from the AR-R website I see you take it from there as well. It seems most people are using 5mg twice a day is that what you recommend. How far apart do you dose 5mg in the morning 5mg late afternoon I would guess? Finally what does that equate to I see it’s dosed at 30mg per ML how much are you going to on that dropper for 5 mg if that’s what you are dosing and recommend I dose. Thanks as always.


Doesn't really matter. The only reason I split the dose is because I only want 5mg before workout. Otherwise, just take 10mg a day, half life is long enough to make splitting the dose irrelevant. 

1 CC Oral syringe has 10 notches on it. 30mg / 10 = 3mg per notch.

----------


## drake4243

> Doesn't really matter. The only reason I split the dose is because I only want 5mg before workout. Otherwise, just take 10mg a day, half life is long enough to make splitting the dose irrelevant. 
> 
> 1 CC Oral syringe has 10 notches on it. 30mg / 10 = 3mg per notch.


Sounds good thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## drake4243

> Doesn't really matter. The only reason I split the dose is because I only want 5mg before workout. Otherwise, just take 10mg a day, half life is long enough to make splitting the dose irrelevant. 
> 
> 1 CC Oral syringe has 10 notches on it. 30mg / 10 = 3mg per notch.


One other question pertaining to that, is this something I can just stay on forever or do you cycle off from time to time?

----------


## austinite

Cialis isn't really a cycling drug. It's far more beneficial than just sexual function. Lowers blood pressure, boosts NO levels, good for prostate, etc...

----------


## Doom44

Aust do you cycle l- citrulline and l- arginine ?

----------


## austinite

> Aust do you cycle l- citrulline and l- arginine ?


Not cycle, I take them daily, forever.

----------


## Doom44

> Not cycle, I take them daily, forever.


I see and thank. i will do what you did then  :Smilie:  . Cause I heard someone said must cycle it to get best result. Lol

----------


## austinite

> I see and thank. i will do what you did then  . Cause I heard someone said must cycle it to get best result. Lol


lol, no. No need to cycle it, just like cialis, everyday.......

----------


## Doom44

> lol, no. No need to cycle it, just like cialis, everyday.......


Alright . Like always , thanks man  :Smilie:

----------


## austinite

Anytime buddy.

----------


## Chx beach 79

Austinite, I started a thread about this(I should of just read a bit). Do you have any experience with corn silk for kidney health while on cycle?

----------


## drake4243

Hey Austinite I have been doing a lot of reading on this lately. I like you take a lot of omega 3s. Have you heard about this at all and do you think there is any validity to it.

Taking omega-3 fish oil supplements may increase the risk of aggressive prostate cancer by 70%

Researchers at Ohio State University, in the U.S., also found that taking the supplement was also associated with a 44 per cent greater chance of developing low-grade prostate cancer.

Full Story: 
Taking omega-3 fish oil supplements may increase the risk of aggressive prostate cancer by 70% | Mail Online

12 July 2013
Home | Mail Online

----------


## austinite

> Hey Austinite I have been doing a lot of reading on this lately. I like you take a lot of omega 3s. Have you heard about this at all and do you think there is any validity to it.
> 
> Taking omega-3 fish oil supplements may increase the risk of aggressive prostate cancer by 70%
> 
> Researchers at Ohio State University, in the U.S., also found that taking the supplement was also associated with a 44 per cent greater chance of developing low-grade prostate cancer.
> 
> Full Story: 
> Taking omega-3 fish oil supplements may increase the risk of aggressive prostate cancer by 70% | Mail Online
> 
> ...


It's already been debunked... Fish Oil and your Prostate - Examine.com Blog

----------


## belva

> Hey Austinite I have been doing a lot of reading on this lately. I like you take a lot of omega 3s. Have you heard about this at all and do you think there is any validity to it.
> 
> Taking omega-3 fish oil supplements may increase the risk of aggressive prostate cancer by 70%
> 
> Researchers at Ohio State University, in the U.S., also found that taking the supplement was also associated with a 44 per cent greater chance of developing low-grade prostate cancer.
> 
> Full Story: 
> Taking omega-3 fish oil supplements may increase the risk of aggressive prostate cancer by 70% | Mail Online
> 
> ...


I was about to post the same link but I did search on the forum before so it led me here  :Smilie:

----------


## austinite

*No problems with Fish Oil. The study is flawed -- Click Here.*

----------


## drake4243

Nice article that’s why you’re the best!!! It just didn’t sound right to me.

----------


## sawyer86

Hi austinite, posting here as youve requested. Im just looking for some help with a solid supplement plan similar to yours. I know that as youve mentioned yours is extreme and expensive and my needs maybe diffrent to yours. Thers just that much info there i dont know what to use and what to not.ill be happy to give you any details you may need. Thanks.

----------


## austinite

> Hi austinite, posting here as youve requested. Im just looking for some help with a solid supplement plan similar to yours. I know that as youve mentioned yours is extreme and expensive and my needs maybe diffrent to yours. Thers just that much info there i dont know what to use and what to not.ill be happy to give you any details you may need. Thanks.


Sounds great, can you give me your stats and tell me what your goals are?

----------


## sawyer86

27 years old. 185 pounds. 11ish% bf.always trying to lean bulk but whilst keeping conditioning. Always want my abs out and to look vascular. Train with weights 4 times a week followed by 20 mins cardio. My job is also very active so i struggle with energy and recovery and im a crap sleeper.

----------


## austinite

> 27 years old. 185 pounds. 11ish% bf.always trying to lean bulk but whilst keeping conditioning. Always want my abs out and to look vascular. Train with weights 4 times a week followed by 20 mins cardio. My job is also very active so i struggle with energy and recovery and im a crap sleeper.


ok. So for vascularity I recommend the vascularity stack. And as for energy, consider heavy doses of B12. Injections prefered, if not, I would get Methyl sublinguals. If you inject, 1000mcg twice a week is good. Sublingials, 5000mcg. Also include CoQ10 at 200mg. Try that for a couple of weeks and see how you feel.

----------


## sawyer86

How often do i take the coq10? Also what about creatine? And i know you hate multivits, so nothing like that? Or yeah and no omega 3,6 or 9

----------


## austinite

> How often do i take the coq10? Also what about creatine? And i know you hate multivits, so nothing like that? Or yeah and no omega 3,6 or 9


CoQ10 daily with fats. I don't do creatine so I can't offer an experienced opinion on it. 

No multivitamins, the essentials in large doses are:

B12
Vitamin C - at least 2 grams daily, 3 is better. 
Vitamin D - at least 2000 iu daily. with Fats

Yes, fish oil is great but I only mentioned your goal-specific supplements. If you take fish oil, just be sure to include Vitamin E to protect the fatty acids.

----------


## sawyer86

Ok, great! Can you tell me somewhere to get all this from please? Im in the uk. When you say with fats do you mean with a meal which contains fats?

----------


## austinite

> Ok, great! Can you tell me somewhere to get all this from please? Im in the uk. When you say with fats do you mean with a meal which contains fats?


I get all my supplements online. Mostly on amazon.

Yes, with fatty meals. like peanut butter  :Smilie:

----------


## sawyer86

I love peanut butter! Thanks very much for all your help austinite. I go on holiday monday but when im back ill start with all this and let you all know tbe results.

----------


## austinite

> I love peanut butter! Thanks very much for all your help austinite. I go on holiday monday but when im back ill start with all this and let you all know tbe results.


lol, mee too! Try Almond butter too. it's great. Make sure you eat the real stuff... ingredients should say "Peanuts" and nothing else!

Good luck, sawyer.

----------


## sawyer86

Yea ill give almond a try. I only ever use the real stuff. Im just looking threw the vascularity stack and it looks great. Is the mentioned pre/postworkout things all i should take at those times? Just wondering about a post workout carb?

----------


## austinite

> Yea ill give almond a try. I only ever use the real stuff. Im just looking threw the vascularity stack and it looks great. Is the mentioned pre/postworkout things all i should take at those times? Just wondering about a post workout carb?


Food timing is irrelevant. Just take the stack, not sure what you're asking about taking other stuff.

----------


## sawyer86

I was wondering what your thoughts were on a post workout carb such as dextrose?

----------


## austinite

> I was wondering what your thoughts were on a post workout carb such as dextrose?


You know, the guys in the diet section might be better suited for this question, but I personally try to avoid any carbs from dextrose, fructose and maltodextrin. 

As for meal timing, I never time my meals because I do not believe in any "Windows of opportunity". As long as you have a daily macronutrient goal, you just need to meet it one way or another. So sometimes I'm super hungry post workout and eat immediately, and sometimes it takes a couple hours before I eat anything.

----------


## sawyer86

I cant believe your still on here ive been to bed got up and posted again and your still on!

----------


## austinite

> I cant believe your still on here ive been to bed got up and posted again and your still on!


lol. I work from home so the screen is always up.

----------


## human project

> ok. So for vascularity I recommend the vascularity stack. And as for energy, consider heavy doses of B12. Injections prefered, if not, I would get Methyl sublinguals. If you inject, 1000mcg twice a week is good. Sublingials, 5000mcg. Also include CoQ10 at 200mg. Try that for a couple of weeks and see how you feel.


My injectable b12 is only 100mg per cc.... It's a inject b complex so would it still be ok to take so much??

----------


## austinite

> My injectable b12 is only 100mg per cc.... It's a inject b complex so would it still be ok to take so much??


That's Hydroxocobalamin. Are you sure it's 100 Milligrams? Is this VET grade or something? It's probably 1000 mcg B12 and some mg's of other stuff.

----------


## Doom44

Aust i just get my Jarrow Formulas, Methyl B-12 5000mcg. How should i take it? Daily?

----------


## austinite

> Aust i just get my Jarrow Formulas, Methyl B-12
> 5000mcg. How should i take it? Daily?


Sweet. Yes, daily!  :Smilie:  - Takes a long time to dissolve, so be patient. It's better than chewing it.

----------


## -KJ-

Getting here a little late but that was a serious read and very informative.

Cheers Austinite...

----------


## Doom44

> Sweet. Yes, daily!  - Takes a long time to dissolve, so be patient. It's better than chewing it.


Ok man  :Smilie:  thanks

----------


## austinite

> Getting here a little late but that was a serious read and very informative.
> 
> Cheers Austinite...


Cheers KJ! Thanks for reading!

----------


## sawyer86

If i choose b12 sublinguals is it 5000mcg twice a week?

----------


## austinite

> If i choose b12 sublinguals is it 5000mcg twice a week?


5000mcg daily! You can go twice a week, but that might just keep you in the lower ranges. Take it daily for optimum levels.

----------


## sawyer86

Or right. Ill do daily. Just been looking on amazon at everything thats all.also, the things you said need taking with fats, do egg yolks count?

----------


## austinite

> Or right. Ill do daily. Just been looking on amazon at everything thats all.also, the things you said need taking with fats, do egg yolks count?


yeah def. Anything with fat. Some drugs are fat soluble so they'll absorb through fats better. some are water soluble and better taken on an empty stomach. Empty stomach is 1 hour before eating or 2 hours after eating with plenty of water. Just look at the labels, most will tell you the solubility.

----------


## sawyer86

Thanks man.

----------


## austinite

4 grams L-Citrulline
3 grams L-Arginine
3 grams L-Carnitine
2 grams L-Lysine
2 grams Vitamin C
5 mg Cialis
600 mg NAC

_Fruit Punch flavoring.

_

----------


## austinite

*Your blood group matters when you take vitamin C:*

There are different types of Vitamin C and depending on your blood type, you would benefit far more if you take the right type. Below is the blood type and vitamin type pairing:

- Blood group '*O*': _use_ Calcium Ascorbate
- Blood group '*A1*': _use_ Sodium Ascorbate
- Blood group '*A2*': _use_ Calcium & Sodium Ascorbate
- Blood group '*B*': _use_ Calcium Ascorbate & Bioflavonoids
- Blood group '*AB*': _use_ Ascorbic Acid

----------


## ZenFitness

Hey austinite, great thread. Question - early on you mentioned you don't do protein powders anymore. Can I ask why?

----------


## austinite

> Hey austinite, great thread. Question - early on you mentioned you don't do protein powders anymore. Can I ask why?


Because I prefer real food. No meal replacements for me. most powders are garbage anyway and contain dextrose/maltodextrin. Also, the majority of people eat way way too much protein. It's very easy to get what you actually need without over doing it with food.

----------


## Doom44

Aust how you take your citrulline, arginine and methionine in off day ?

----------


## austinite

> Aust how you take your citrulline, arginine and methionine in off day ?


Same as on days  :Smilie:

----------


## sawyer86

Dwhat do i do about taking the vascularity stack on non training days as its all pre and post workout?

----------


## Doom44

> Same as on days


Whats the dosage?

----------


## austinite

> Dwhat do i do about taking the vascularity stack on non training days as its all pre and post workout?







> Whats the dosage?


Doses are listed in my protocol. 

On or Off days, you take the same dose at the same time. Everyday. Preworkout on workout days is beneficial so that you get the pump at the gym AND you keep the vessels dilated and delivering higher levels of nutrients to the muscle. 

Same for days off, except you're not getting the pump. Consistency is key. 

If you take your preworkout at 5pm on workout days, then take it at 5pm on non-workout days. 

Capishe?

----------


## Doom44

> Doses are listed in my protocol.
> 
> On or Off days, you take the same dose at the same time. Everyday. Preworkout on workout days is beneficial so that you get the pump at the gym AND you keep the vessels dilated and delivering higher levels of nutrients to the muscle.
> 
> Same for days off, except you're not getting the pump. Consistency is key.
> 
> If you take your preworkout at 5pm on workout days, then take it at 5pm on non-workout days.
> 
> Capishe?


Got it. Thanks man !!  :Smilie:

----------


## sawyer86

Yea, thanks just wanted to make sure.

----------


## basketballfan22

> *Your blood group matters when you take vitamin C:*
> 
> There are different types of Vitamin C and depending on your blood type, you would benefit far more if you take the right type. Below is the blood type and vitamin type pairing:
> 
> - Blood group '*O*': _use_ Calcium Ascorbate
> - Blood group '*A1*': _use_ Sodium Ascorbate
> - Blood group '*A2*': _use_ Calcium & Sodium Ascorbate
> - Blood group '*B*': _use_ Calcium Ascorbate & Bioflavonoids
> - Blood group '*AB*': _use_ Ascorbic Acid


That is very interesting that blood type influences vitamin C absorption. One more reason I should find mine out, lol.

----------


## basketballfan22

^^^ After searching for articles on this, I found that vitamin C type may affect different metabolic rates too, particularly pH level. Have you read this austinite?

----------


## austinite

> ^^^ After searching for articles on this, I found that vitamin C type may affect different metabolic rates too, particularly pH level. Have you read this austinite?


no! Give me some links, homie. Interesting!

----------


## basketballfan22

Are you taking the RIGHT Vitamin C for your type? : REAL Metabolic Typing Blog

It is not from a scientific journal, so I will try and locate better articles. Based on the author's description, she seems like a credible source though.

----------


## basketballfan22

Another one: Metabolic Nutrition: What is your Metabolic Type.

----------


## austinite

> Another one: Metabolic Nutrition: What is your Metabolic Type.


Yeah that makes sense. I'm not sure though why they singled out vitamin C, this rules applies to everything.

----------


## basketballfan22

> Yeah that makes sense. I'm not sure though why they singled out vitamin C, this rules applies to everything.


Yeah, I agree. I think it was the easiest example to demonstrate the effects on pH.

----------


## austinite

Mmmmm. 

Amino acid blast! This time with red yeast rice.

----------


## basketballfan22

> Mmmmm. 
> 
> Amino acid blast! This time with red yeast rice.


Red yeast rice? Is that a new supplement you are trying?

----------


## sawyer86

Sorry about all me questions austinite, just good to be getting all this advice. Does the pre workout stack have to be taking on an empty stomach or not? And how long should i wait to train after taking it? Also on non training days as i do a physical job would it be good to take pre workout before work and post after work?

----------


## austinite

> Red yeast rice? Is that a new supplement you are trying?


Yes, forgot to tell you. My doc recommended it and so did MuscleInk. I'm trying to see if this will help lower my cholesterol levels so that I can get off the super expensive prescription; Crestor. Supposedly this is just as effective in the right doses.

----------


## austinite

> Sorry about all me questions austinite, just good to be getting all this advice. Does the pre workout stack have to be taking on an empty stomach or not? And how long should i wait to train after taking it? Also on non training days as i do a physical job would it be good to take pre workout before work and post after work?


No problem buddy. Ask away, that's why this thread is here. Empty stomach is best so that your supplements are not fighting food for absorption. Empty stomach is 1 hour before eating or 2 hours after eating. that said, it's still quite effective even with food.

----------


## Gaspaco

How you doin my friend?

I am on creatine mono 3/4year without break, should I take a break(2weeks or so..)?

----------


## sawyer86

So for best results. Take 2 hours after meal, then wait how long before training?

----------


## austinite

> So for best results. Take 2 hours after meal, then wait how long before training?


20 to 30 minutes before lifting will be optimum. Remember... lifting.. not cardio.

----------


## austinite

> How you doin my friend?
> 
> I am on creatine mono 3/4year without break, should I take a break(2weeks or so..)?


What's up pal! Yes, certainly take a short break and get back on. Good shock.

----------


## Gaspaco

> What's up pal! Yes, certainly take a short break and get back on. Good shock.


You are THE man!!! 

TY :Smilie:

----------


## sawyer86

I usually only do cardio after lifting. But why not before cardio?

----------


## austinite

> I usually only do cardio after lifting. But why not before cardio?


because half life is short. If you cardio, you'll waste your pump.

----------


## sawyer86

Or right yea. So on a non training day is there any point taking pre before work and post aftr work?

----------


## sawyer86

I usually only do cardio after lifting. But why not before cardio?

----------


## austinite

Sawyer, I just answer your question above. You're asking again? lol.

because half life is short. If you cardio, you'll waste your pump.

----------


## austinite

> Or right yea. So on a non training day is there any point taking pre before work and post aftr work?


I'm confused. I answered this question earlier too, sawyer. Take it the same time every single day.

----------


## sawyer86

Im on my phone and its got a mind of its own sometimes! It posted my comments twice. Sorry!

----------


## Krb367

Awesome read bro! Kept seeing different members referring to this and finally figured I would check it out.. Definitely think ill be looking into supplementing a some of these!

I haven't been surfing around here too long, but already seen you say a few times in other posts that your avatar was your mom.. And every time I'm thinking to myself, "Damn that chick looks like DLB. Wait.. I'm almost positive that is DLB. So.. Damn, is his mom REALLY DLB?" Lol

----------


## kronik420

a few q's

1. when off cycle, do you inject your 1000mcg b12 once per week? or spread it out through out the week?

2. how much $$ do you spend on all these supps? 

3. any good appetite suppressants out there? 

4. what is an austinite?

----------


## austinite

> a few q's
> 
> 1. when off cycle, do you inject your 1000mcg b12 once per week? or spread it out through out the week?
> 
> 2. how much $$ do you spend on all these supps? 
> 
> 3. any good appetite suppressants out there? 
> 
> 4. what is an austinite?



1. I use B12 to mix my hCG and inject it twice weekly. 
2. No idea. Probably in the neighborhood of $600 at first, but now that I buy mostly powder, closer to $250.
3. L-Tyrosine works OK for me. Nothing drastic out there. 
4. An Austinite is an inhabitant of the city of Austin, Texas.

----------


## Venom

I figured I will ask all my supplement questions in here instead of creating a bunch of threads if that's ok with you austinite? 

Pardon me if you already answered this in this thread, I haven't had the chance to read the whole thread yet. 

What are your thoughts on Forskolin-95?

----------


## redhawk01

> Yes, forgot to tell you. My doc recommended it and so did MuscleInk. I'm trying to see if this will help lower my cholesterol levels so that I can get off the super expensive prescription; Crestor. Supposedly this is just as effective in the right doses.


I've been trying this as well. Will do bloodwork soon. I quit my Simvastatin because it ended up putting me on TRT. Since I quit last February, my natural t went up over 550, so now I'm off TRT.

----------


## austinite

> I figured I will ask all my supplement questions in here instead of creating a bunch of threads if that's ok with you austinite? 
> 
> Pardon me if you already answered this in this thread, I haven't had the chance to read the whole thread yet. 
> 
> What are your thoughts on Forskolin-95?


Coleus Forskohlii was a complete failure for me. Did nothing and I dropped it.

----------


## austinite

> I've been trying this as well. Will do bloodwork soon. I quit my Simvastatin because it ended up putting me on TRT. Since I quit last February, my natural t went up over 550, so now I'm off TRT.


Keep me posted, redhawk!

----------


## Venom

> Coleus Forskohlii was a complete failure for me. Did nothing and I dropped it.


Thanks austinite! I'm curious about your opinion on thermogenic products for fat loss? Here's a pic of a product I'm looking at with the ingredients.

----------


## austinite

> Thanks austinite! I'm curious about your opinion on thermogenic products for fat loss? Here's a pic of a product I'm looking at with the ingredients.


caffeine is weak. The rest is ok but dose is low. Try my fat loss thread. Seems to work for several guys so fat.

----------


## Venom

> caffeine is weak. The rest is ok but dose is low. Try my fat loss thread. Seems to work for several guys so fat.


Will do, thanks brother!

----------


## RipOwens

Hey Aust, about the B5....I notice some bottles have B5 in the form of "d-calcium pantothenate" and others "dexpanthenol". Any preference or am I on the wrong track completely?

----------


## austinite

pantothenate is Pantothenic acid, which is B5. Dex is topical isnt it? Also they contain other crap you don;t need.

just look for pantothenic acid. 

NOW Foods Pantothenic Acid 500 mg 100 Caps - Swanson Health Products

----------


## RipOwens

> pantothenate is Pantothenic acid, which is B5. Dex is topical isnt it? Also they contain other crap you don;t need.
> 
> just look for pantothenic acid.
> 
> NOW Foods Pantothenic Acid 500 mg 100 Caps - Swanson Health Products


Oh crap, yes. That is topical. I think I saw it on a bottle of b-complex oral liquid drops. Doesn't matter, got it...thanks!

----------


## austinite

First B12 IV injection today. Ugh. Felt a little rush and sweat a little. Very unlike me with injections. I guess since it was new to me my mind was all over the place.

----------


## krugerr

> First B12 IV injection today. Ugh. Felt a little rush and sweat a little. Very unlike me with injections. I guess since it was new to me my mind was all over the place.


I get that everytime with IV, makes me really feint, but I can stick myself IM/SQ all day and not be phased. Better absoprtion from IV b12? Or are you just experimenting? (Sorry if you covered that in a previous post!  :Smilie:  )

----------


## austinite

> I get that everytime with IV, makes me really feint, but I can stick myself IM/SQ all day and not be phased. Better absoprtion from IV b12? Or are you just experimenting? (Sorry if you covered that in a previous post!  )


Instant absorption  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Yes, I am experimenting to see if I notice a difference in both feeling and bloodwork. .

----------


## krugerr

> Instant absorption 
> 
> Yes, I am experimenting to see if I notice a difference in both feeling and bloodwork. .


 Sweet mate! I should really keep my nose in this thread more, I've just been so distracted IRL the last couple weeks.

----------


## RipOwens

> First B12 IV injection today. Ugh. Felt a little rush and sweat a little. Very unlike me with injections. I guess since it was new to me my mind was all over the place.


Wow, good luck buddy!

----------


## human project

> Wow, good luck buddy!


Is yours green??

----------


## RipOwens

> Is yours green??


Is what green?

----------


## austinite

^ your peepee. He wants to know if your peepee is green.

----------


## RipOwens

> ^ your peepee. He wants to know if your peepee is green.


Oh ok, now I understand?????

----------


## austinite

lmao. He's talking about your B12 complex!

----------


## RipOwens

> lmao. He's talking about your B12 complex!


Lol! Why try IV tho? I guess I should go back and read this whole thread.

----------


## FONZY007

Just want to reply that I take some of the suggested supplements and I'm getting this, this isn't pumped or a workout day

----------


## austinite

> Just want to reply that I take some of the suggested supplements and I'm getting this, this isn't pumped or a workout day


LOL, Fonzy! Looking good, brother! Keep it up!

----------


## jasc

Update:

I've been following your Vascularity protocol for about 2 weeks now and LOVE it!

My muscles look/feel more pumped 24/7, my veins have popped to a whole nother level, and my pumps in the gym are great! Even on off days or days where I have missed a few of the supps, the look and feel hasn't gone away.

Thank you for posting it!

Highly recommend!

----------


## austinite

> Update:
> 
> I've been following your Vascularity protocol for about 2 weeks now and LOVE it!
> 
> My muscles look/feel more pumped 24/7, my veins have popped to a whole nother level, and my pumps in the gym are great! Even on off days or days where I have missed a few of the supps, the look and feel hasn't gone away.
> 
> Thank you for posting it!
> 
> Highly recommend!


Way to go, Jasc! Keep it up and stay vascular, buddy!

----------


## MajorPectorial

Aust can u get your Supp protocols stickied please. Be a benefit for all on here. By far the best set of threads on supps.

And I don't have to keep searching for em then either ha-ha

----------


## ChiveOn

Your knowledge never ceases to amaze me. And I'm starting to get told that by personal trainers and friends just from what I've learned from this forum. Even even you alone. 

I'm gonna try the vascularity stack. Specifically the argenine, Citrulline, and Lysine and Cialis. 
See what that does for me. I used to religiously use Jack3d but I've been reading that DMAA is a vasoconstrictor and that's kind of against what I'm looking for. I think ill be going to 2 cups of strong black coffee along with 2g of all of the above listed amino acids each, and 5mg of cialis about 30min-hour PreWO

----------


## austinite

> Your knowledge never ceases to amaze me. And I'm starting to get told that by personal trainers and friends just from what I've learned from this forum. Even even you alone. 
> 
> I'm gonna try the vascularity stack. Specifically the argenine, Citrulline, and Lysine and Cialis. 
> See what that does for me. I used to religiously use Jack3d but I've been reading that DMAA is a vasoconstrictor and that's kind of against what I'm looking for. I think ill be going to 2 cups of strong black coffee along with 2g of all of the above listed amino acids each, and 5mg of cialis about 30min-hour PreWO


Hey ChiveOn! Thanks for the kind words man. 

Glad you're giving the stack a try. As much crap as we all take, doesnt hurt to mix it up a little every now and then. Keep me posted on any progress please!

----------


## ChiveOn

> Hey ChiveOn! Thanks for the kind words man. 
> 
> Glad you're giving the stack a try. As much crap as we all take, doesnt hurt to mix it up a little every now and then. Keep me posted on any progress please!


For sure. Any insight as to how long it'll take to build levels and notice a difference? Also, would it be good to take anything throughout the day to keep it up? My workouts are generally around 0900-1200 so I take everything in the mornings.
I have a TON of AAKG 2gr tabs that I never used. Would it be pertinent to take throughout the day or is it kinda just crap. I didn't see anything out of them the first time around but my bf was much higher back then

----------


## austinite

Well I've been on for so long that I couldn't tell ya, but the guys that have been playing around with it came back in less than 4 weeks to show pictures of their veins popping. Consistency is key. A lot easier to lose the effects than it is to gain them. Any time you can split the dose, it's always a good thing. But I've done both ways and haven't noticed much difference. Maybe at first it's best. 

If you can find anything in micronized version it will absorb much better. Citrulline in "malate" form is also superior than plain ol citrulline. If whatever preworkout dose does not give you a good pump, don't be afraid to increase the dose. Just try to keep Citrulline higher than Arginine.

----------


## ChiveOn

Of course the more expensive of the three is higher. Ill have to look into buyin bulk on amazon or something because 100 pills at 25$ at the vitamin shoppe just isn't gonna cut it

----------


## austinite

^ Check PM.

----------


## BIGTIMEPUSH

I must admit I was skeptical of your vascularity stack! And wow I am a believer now, today was the fifth day taking your stack and veins were popping out everywhere!!! I have been taking lower doses since I am a lot smaller but wow!! Awesome job you should really look into making these stacks and selling them!! Thanks for the advice!!

----------


## Cuz

This man is a fvcking genius!

----------


## ChiveOn

> I must admit I was skeptical of your vascularity stack! And wow I am a believer now, today was the fifth day taking your stack and veins were popping out everywhere!!! I have been taking lower doses since I am a lot smaller but wow!! Awesome job you should really look into making these stacks and selling them!! Thanks for the advice!!


I've gotta say man I'm impressed thoroughly. I'm not sure I saw some of the veins I'm seeing now when I was pumpin the tren and mast every day. You're a BEAST

----------


## Cuz

just spent 120 bucks on vit/minerals yesterday....

----------


## Cuz

Sorry Aust if I missed it, but what Brands are you using for these supps. I know Amazon has like tons and tons of different brands, some high and some low dollar. Im on a budget but scared to buy the cheap ones in fear of low quality stuff.

----------


## austinite

Mostly NOW foods if it's pill form. Otherwise I buy raw powder at wholesale but that wouldn't be useful to you unless you want a huge order.

----------


## DCI

Been doing this for a good couple of weeks it is great  :Smilie:  the best supp found on the market with there or there abouts quantities per serving is the Animal Bcaas sup great stuff. 

My arms, front delts and sometimes biceps veins are beginning to pop out. Would love to look like Frank McGrath sometime he is crazy vascular

----------


## austinite

> Been doing this for a good couple of weeks it is great  the best supp found on the market with there or there abouts quantities per serving is the Animal Bcaas sup great stuff. 
> 
> My arms, front delts and sometimes biceps veins are beginning to pop out. Would love to look like Frank McGrath sometime he is crazy vascular


Good to hear DCI!! Keep it up man.

----------


## DCI

Thanks for all this info aust and keeping the threads going by responding to be people

----------


## ineedauser

Hey Austinite... been pretty successful with your supplement plan. I dig it! But I have a question for you

You think it's a bad idea to add B6 and or B12 to the plan?
It's the citrulline malate, arg, lysine, pycnogenol, and methionine one.

----------


## austinite

> Hey Austinite... been pretty successful with your supplement plan. I dig it! But I have a question for you
> 
> You think it's a bad idea to add B6 and or B12 to the plan?
> It's the citrulline malate, arg, lysine, pycnogenol, and methionine one.


Not at all. Go for it.

----------


## ineedauser

Have any dosage and time of day suggestions for both workout and non without days?

----------


## austinite

Check my protocol  :Smilie:

----------


## ineedauser

I just read the first post again. I see the protocol but I don't see what time of day for orals. And the recommended oral amount. 

I also didn't see b6 doses. Sorry for being such a pain.

----------


## austinite

> I just read the first post again. I see the protocol but I don't see what time of day for orals. And the recommended oral amount. 
> 
> I also didn't see b6 doses. Sorry for being such a pain.


Timing of what brother? It shows that I use them once per week and shows you my dose. Maybe I'm confused. Do you want the exact time of day that I administer the doses on Sunday? If that's the case, it doesn't matter.

----------


## ineedauser

Sorry!

----------


## drake4243

Hey Austinite, with all this blood thickening around here I was wandering if I should add baby aspirin to my long list of stuff I already swallow. Is this only relative to age 35+? Or would it be beneficial for everyone to take this forever. I am 28, 58 230lbs at about 11% bf. My health is great other than I struggle with slightly low HDL all the time. If you do recommend me taking it is there a particular brand you like? thanks

----------


## austinite

> Hey Austinite, with all this blood thickening around here I was wandering if I should add baby aspirin to my long list of stuff I already swallow. Is this only relative to age 35+? Or would it be beneficial for everyone to take this forever. I am 28, 5’8 230lbs at about 11% bf. My health is great other than I struggle with slightly low HDL all the time. If you do recommend me taking it is there a particular brand you like? thanks


An aspirin daily is always good. I use 81mg daily. If you're cycling, your blood will thicken, regardless of age. I use HEB brand, generic enteric coated tabs. Remember though... while it has great benefits, it is not a replacement for blood donations.

----------


## drake4243

> An aspirin daily is always good. I use 81mg daily. If you're cycling, your blood will thicken, regardless of age. I use HEB brand, generic enteric coated tabs. Remember though... while it has great benefits, it is not a replacement for blood donations.


Sounds good i will add it to my list i see Aspirin doses most frequently recommended are 80, 160, or 325 mg per day so like you I will also go with 80mg a day unless you feel more would be more beneficial.

----------


## drake4243

I would assume it is on here but cant find it do you recommended I take (NAC) N-acetyl cysteine daily for life as well? I would like to add some permanent liver support do you suggest this. If so what dose daily. thanks

----------


## austinite

^ yes. NAC daily  :Smilie: 

Direct Link: http://forums.steroid.com/supplement...ml#post6589936

----------


## drake4243

Thanks.

----------


## Giftedathlete

Hey aus. I was just going through this thread and noticed you said that optimum was a waste? I've gone through plenty of multis but usually stick won't opti men. So along with the other supps you talk about taking what do you recommend as a top multi!? Thanks.

----------


## MajorPectorial

I think aust would say. Drop the multi n add everything manually. So u don't over/under dose particular vits/mins etc

----------


## austinite

> Hey aus. I was just going through this thread and noticed you said that optimum was a waste? I've gone through plenty of multis but usually stick won't opti men. So along with the other supps you talk about taking what do you recommend as a top multi!? Thanks.


Hey buddy. As mentioned, I really do not have a recommendation for a multi-vitamin. I've spend endless years in search of a decent multi vitamin. Fact is, there is no such thing.

----------


## zillagod

....

----------


## austinite

> hey, do you or anyone have a write up about diindolylmethane (DIM)? cant find anything when i search for it, even using the advanced search. from what ive read online, seems as if there is all kinds of health benefits with this supp


Just a brief description at the end of the estrogen segment. I don't recall any complete write ups...

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...-reversal.html

----------


## zillagod

....

----------


## ChiveOn

So, since I've started this stack I haven't changed anything else, yet I've put on 6lbs? Remember if anything like this happened to you when you started this stack? I mean... I read that Arginine is supposed to increase your protein synthesis but 6lbs in 2 weeks? Seems absurd
I feel like most of it is muscle also. I don't really see much of an increase in fat

My protocol is 
PWO
3G Citrulline Malate
2g Lysine
2g Arginine

Twice through the day another G of Arginine

----------


## sfgiantsfan55

hey Austinite

Im trying to read as much as I can from all your posts, really learning alot (thanks). The info may already be out there , and i apologize if I have missed it, but there are sooo many threads and posts, hard to make time to read it all. That said, I believe I ran across you stating in a post that you do not take creatine as part of your supplementation program ( I also didnt see it listed at the start of this thread). Whats your position on it (why you do or do not take it)?. I am also a HRT patient (on test cyp and hcg , just started the hcg.... and fwiw my MD never mention supplementing with Preg or dhea). My goals are to gain lean muscle , and ive read both sides of the argument [yes creatine can help you gain lean mass / no it will bloat you with water weight].

ps from reading your other posts I am adding DHEA / Preg / and maca to my daily routine. 

Thanks for your perspective.

----------


## austinite

^ Don't really have a position. lol. Creatine is not bad for you. It's certainly useful. My progress is absolutely fine without it though. As excessive as my regimen is and as extreme as I am with supplements, I still have some limits, lol. Creatine and protein/whey powders and BCAA are a few of many things that I chose to eliminate. 

Good call on dhea/preg!

----------


## austinite

> So, since I've started this stack I haven't changed anything else, yet I've put on 6lbs? Remember if anything like this happened to you when you started this stack? I mean... I read that Arginine is supposed to increase your protein synthesis but 6lbs in 2 weeks? Seems absurd
> I feel like most of it is muscle also. I don't really see much of an increase in fat
> 
> My protocol is 
> PWO
> 3G Citrulline Malate
> 2g Lysine
> 2g Arginine
> 
> Twice through the day another G of Arginine


No, the stack won't do that. Something else is causing water retention there.

----------


## gearbox

> No, the stack won't do that. Something else is causing water retention there.


You may not be drinking enough water now that you added those supps. Wbich is causing the water weight

----------


## ChiveOn

That's entirely possible. I've been running outside in the heat in place of on an elliptical so it could be that I need to add water. Ill try it see what happens

----------


## Brazensol

I'm still looking over this long thread but so far I've not seen anything on the Maca. Is raw powder form fine or should I get the pills?

----------


## austinite

> I'm still looking over this long thread but so far I've not seen anything on the Maca. Is raw powder form fine or should I get the pills?


You can get both, either is effective.

----------


## Brazensol

A couple more questions if you don't mind,

B-12.....I see you are taking B-12 (injectable) 1000mcg once/week off cycle? Is 5000mcg of the Jarrow methyl b-12 too much for daily use?

Cialis.....I take a 2.5mg pill daily. The liquid cialis from a-r-r just arrived and I will take an additional 7.5mg/day from that. Any problem splitting this up into a 2.5mg am (or pm) and the other 7.5mg's at the other end of the day?

NAC.....I see on your chart you only take NAC 3 times/week. Is daily (off cycle) just overkill?

CoQ10.....Is 300mg/daily overkill?

Thanks for looking!

----------


## austinite

> A couple more questions if you don't mind,
> 
> B-12.....I see you are taking B-12 (injectable) 1000mcg once/week off cycle? Is 5000mcg of the Jarrow methyl b-12 too much for daily use?
> 
> Cialis.....I take a 2.5mg pill daily. The liquid cialis from a-r-r just arrived and I will take an additional 7.5mg/day from that. Any problem splitting this up into a 2.5mg am (or pm) and the other 7.5mg's at the other end of the day?
> 
> NAC.....I see on your chart you only take NAC 3 times/week. Is daily (off cycle) just overkill?
> 
> CoQ10.....Is 300mg/daily overkill?
> ...


5000mcg is not too much. There is no toxicity with B12 and you excrete anything beyond your binding capacity. Lower your dose if you get too hungry.

There is no need to split cialis dose. Half life is too long for that to matter. The only reason I personally split it is because I only want 5mg pre workout. 

Daily NAC is not overkill, I am back on a daily regimen now. 600mg daily year round. 

300 mg of coq10 is not too much. But at your age, you should be using UBQH instead. Read this thread.... http://forums.steroid.com/supplement...d-out-why.html

----------


## Brazensol

At my age indeed... lol. I'll take a look at it. You sure do respond fast to questions.

----------


## austinite

Your age and mine  :Smilie:  I'm subscribed to my threads and get notifications of anyone posting, so it helps respond faster.  :Smilie:

----------


## Giggle

Hi Austinite -
Would you mind taking a look at my pre- and intra-workout drink? I usually down half before starting, and then sip the rest during training. My goals are still to lean out a bit more, and then to try to put on some more size. 
Any suggestions would be wonderful. Also, I just added the Citrulline and Arginine per your advice, and I didn't know if you'd adjust dosages for a 137# female?
All are powders and easily adjustable.

Leucine 5000mg
Taurine 1400mg
Glutamine 5000mg
Amino acids - one scoop (not sure of the dose)
Citrulline malate 3000mg
Arginine 2300mg

Thank you so much.
Giggle

----------


## austinite

> Hi Austinite -
> Would you mind taking a look at my pre- and intra-workout drink? I usually down half before starting, and then sip the rest during training. My goals are still to lean out a bit more, and then to try to put on some more size. 
> Any suggestions would be wonderful. Also, I just added the Citrulline and Arginine per your advice, and I didn't know if you'd adjust dosages for a 137# female?
> All are powders and easily adjustable.
> 
> Leucine 5000mg
> Taurine 1400mg
> Glutamine 5000mg
> Amino acids - one scoop (not sure of the dose)
> ...


Hey giggle,

What is Amino Acids in the middle? Can you take a pic of the label? All of the above are amino acids. 

Everything else is good stuff. Although with Taurine, if the goal is fat loss, studies show that 3000 mg daily for 7 weeks are effective. 

Citrulline and Arginine doses look great. I prefer glutamine first thing in the morning, or anytime on an empty stomach. It's not as effective in the presence of other amino acids.

----------


## Giggle

I bought the powdered aa's a while ago and transferred them into a coffee can. Probably just BCAA's I think. They taste bad haha. doesn't that narrow it down?
You think I don't need to reorder them if I have everything else in place?

Thanks - I'll up the taurine, and switch the glutamine to the AM.
I sure appreciate this!!

----------


## austinite

> I bought the powdered aa's a while ago and transferred them into a coffee can. Probably just BCAA's I think. They taste bad haha. doesn't that narrow it down?
> You think I don't need to reorder them if I have everything else in place?
> 
> Thanks - I'll up the taurine, and switch the glutamine to the AM.
> I sure appreciate this!!


lol, yeah most powders taste bad. If they are in fact BCAA's, then you can get rid of your Leucine dose.

BCAA is leucine (dominant dose), Isoleucine and Valine. Which is great pre, mid and even post workout.

----------


## Giggle

thanks for your help. Have a good week!

----------


## Sfla80

Aust I see you are taking dhea, and I asked Gbrice in his recent thread about it. I read the link he provided me, and was thinking about putting this into my regimen. BBut with the link provided and some googling research, is this something that should just be taken for TRT patients or people that are on cycle....or could this be taken year round, or cycled on and off. 

I read an article today about it being an overly hyped sup and has some serious sides. But that was only one article I could find on negative things said about it.

----------


## austinite

> Aust I see you are taking dhea, and I asked Gbrice in his recent thread about it. I read the link he provided me, and was thinking about putting this into my regimen. BBut with the link provided and some googling research, is this something that should just be taken for TRT patients or people that are on cycle....or could this be taken year round, or cycled on and off. 
> 
> I read an article today about it being an overly hyped sup and has some serious sides. But that was only one article I could find on negative things said about it.


TRT is very common and certainly useful. Anyone can really benefit from DHEA but if you're young and healthy, there's no need for it. As far as overly hyped, isn't that the case with everything?  :Smilie: 

DHEA and pregnenolone are both a staple in my protocol.

----------


## Sfla80

> TRT is very common and certainly useful. Anyone can really benefit from DHEA but if you're young and healthy, there's no need for it. As far as overly hyped, isn't that the case with everything? 
> 
> DHEA and pregnenolone are both a staple in my protocol.


So being 34 and "realitivly"  :Smilie:  healthy, should be no need for it?

----------


## austinite

Probably OK without it till you get closer to 40. But it certainly wouldn't hurt, and even better, to have blood levels tested next time you get blood work.

----------


## Sfla80

> Probably OK without it till you get closer to 40. But it certainly wouldn't hurt, and even better, to have blood levels tested next time you get blood work.


Im due for bloods soon. Pct is about over. So maybe 4 weeks. what test would I add for dhea?

----------


## austinite

> Im due for bloods soon. Pct is about over. So maybe 4 weeks. what test would I add for dhea?


DHEA test  :Smilie:

----------


## Sfla80

> DHEA test


Lol :/ ok

----------


## austinite

> Lol :/ ok


DHEA (Dehydroepiandrosterone), Unconjugated, LC/MS/MS

----------


## Brazensol

Since you are answering the hard questions I have one too! Would the test for pregnenolone be... pregnenolone? lol. Really - is it?

----------


## austinite

> Since you are answering the hard questions I have one too! Would the test for pregnenolone be... pregnenolone? lol. Really - is it?


lol. Yep. Pregnenolone, 

Pregnenolone, LC/MS/MS

----------


## sawyer86

Hey aust just oredered the vascularity stack and im wondering does the pre workout part need to be took on an empty stomach or not? Also the same queston for the bedtime part?

----------


## austinite

> Hey aust just oredered the vascularity stack and im wondering does the pre workout part need to be took on an empty stomach or not? Also the same queston for the bedtime part?


I take it on an empty stomach to it's not fighting food for absorption. Empty stomach meaning 1 hour before eating, or 2 hours after eating. 

They will absorb either way, but empty stomach gets you more out of your dose. If you feel any discomfort, then switch to taking it with food. 

Food meaning solids, liquids are fine and shouldn't interfere.

----------


## austinite

http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...r-high-bp.html

----------


## austinite

Don't mind me, just whoring.......

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...ffect-you.html

----------


## belva

Austinite, when should I take NAC if I take a dose of 1200 or 1800 mg /day? all before bed or through out the day?

----------


## austinite

Split it up when doses are higher than 600mg.

----------


## belva

> Split it up when doses are higher than 600mg.


Thank you austinite.

----------


## cj111

Hey Austin,

Whats the difference between taking 25000iu Vit A once a week or 3500iu ED?

----------


## austinite

> Hey Austin,
> 
> Whats the difference between taking 25000iu Vit A once a week or 3500iu ED?


Nothing noteworthy. Lives far too long in your system for daily intake to matter.

----------


## cj111

Went to pick up some DHEA.


They wanted 60$ for 60 tabs at 50mg each.
I said holy shit I might as well just get back on the juice for that price.
Is that normal for it to be so expensive?

----------


## austinite

Not at all. That's a rip off. Be sure to get Micronized DHEA -- $9 for 90 capsules...

Amazon.com: MRM Micronized DHEA Vegetarian 50 mg Caplets, 90-Count Bottles: Health & Personal Care

----------


## cj111

Thats really weird, I wanted into Sangsters and asked for it, they kept it in the back? It honestly looked like a bottle of steroids , label had no info other than it was DHEA lol. 
Thanks for the link

----------


## cj111

Well this blows, they wont ship that DHEA to canada.... tried the MRM brand.

Would it just be that brand, or is it all DHEA in general.

----------


## austinite

You can get different brands. Just search for Micronized DHEA.

----------


## Arreis

damn thats a lot of supps, is that meal 1?

----------


## austinite

> damn thats a lot of supps, is that meal 1?


Meal 1? Not sure what you mean. you can observe the protocol timing in the list.

----------


## austinite

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...-database.html

----------


## cj111

How come you only does B6 once a week? 
Recommended dose according to my bottle is 100mg ED, just curious what your thoughts are about it.

----------


## austinite

> How come you only does B6 once a week? 
> Recommended dose according to my bottle is 100mg ED, just curious what your thoughts are about it.


You should be getting a decent amount with food. B6 supports B12, so I take them together.

----------


## sawyer86

Hey aust does the vascularity stack help at all with performance when training or is it purely to look vascular?

----------


## austinite

Yes it certainly helps. You're increasing muscle cell endurance, delivering nutrients more efficiently and effectively, aids with recovery, etc...

----------


## sawyer86

Great!

----------


## MagillaRU

Austinite, I'm aware of the benefits of each of the supplements listed in the vascularity stack but was just curious about a few things regarding the necessity of taking the lysine pre-WO and the timing of the antioxidants (vit C and cysteine) post-WO? Would it be just as beneficial to take the lysine am/pm or have you noticed a difference adding it pre-WO? Also, I've read (don't have the source on hand) that antioxidants should not be taken too close to the peri-WO window. I was planning on taking the post-WO antioxidants about an hour or two after instead of immediately after with my shake....any thoughts?

Also, since adding the other ingredients (vascularity stack) to my normal caffeine and citrulline stack as well as replacing my multi with the basics (B12, C, zinc-copper, etc.), I've had more energy and have felt better overall! 

Thanks!

----------


## austinite

> Austinite, I'm aware of the benefits of each of the supplements listed in the vascularity stack but was just curious about a few things regarding the necessity of taking the lysine pre-WO and the timing of the antioxidants (vit C and cysteine) post-WO? Would it be just as beneficial to take the lysine am/pm or have you noticed a difference adding it pre-WO? Also, I've read (don't have the source on hand) that antioxidants should not be taken too close to the peri-WO window. I was planning on taking the post-WO antioxidants about an hour or two after instead of immediately after with my shake....any thoughts?
> 
> Also, since adding the other ingredients (vascularity stack) to my normal caffeine and citrulline stack as well as replacing my multi with the basics (B12, C, zinc-copper, etc.), I've had more energy and have felt better overall! 
> 
> Thanks!


No. Don't vary from the stack, then it would no longer be my stack. It would be random. It took a while to get the doses and timing right. Even metabolic pathways were considered. This isn't just thrown together. That's why the reviews are all positive. It works as is. 

Vitamin C is a MUST post workout. Has everything to do with Cortisol levels that are elevated at that stage. 

Good job ditching the multivitamin! Glad to hear you feel better. Nothing like being at OPTIMUM levels. RDA sucks!  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## MagillaRU

Sounds good! I'll stick with it then. I'm actually surprised of how "full"/dense I've felt the last few days since starting this! I'm usually pretty vascular but have noticed a slight increase (only day 3) but training has been great! Can't wait until week 2! The role of Vitamin C acting on cortisol levels makes sense which is why I was confused so thanks for clearing that up! 

Thanks again for making this thread! I've been in a rut the last month or so with my training and energy levels throughout the day and truly feel like a new person this past week! THANK YOU!

*The only dosages I might play with are the citrulline and arginine pre-wo but will maintain the recommended ratio.

----------


## austinite

> Sounds good! I'll stick with it then. I'm actually surprised of how "full"/dense I've felt the last few days since starting this! I'm usually pretty vascular but have noticed a slight increase (only day 3) but training has been great! Can't wait until week 2! The role of Vitamin C acting on cortisol levels makes sense which is why I was confused so thanks for clearing that up! 
> 
> Thanks again for making this thread! I've been in a rut the last month or so with my training and energy levels throughout the day and truly feel like a new person this past week! THANK YOU!


Oh... Just wait until you're on it for a few weeks!  :Wink: 

Enjoy buddy.

----------


## human project

> TRT is very common and certainly useful. Anyone can really benefit from DHEA but if you're young and healthy, there's no need for it. As far as overly hyped, isn't that the case with everything? 
> 
> DHEA and pregnenolone are both a staple in my protocol.


I seem to get terrible headaches with DHEA.... Certain compounds have the weirdest reactions with me... Has anyone else had this issue???

----------


## austinite

> I seem to get terrible headaches with DHEA.... Certain compounds have the weirdest reactions with me... Has anyone else had this issue???


Headaches are one of the side effects. Then again, that's a side effect listed on every supplement on earth. try lowering your dose. Have you eliminated it for a while to confirm that DHEA is the culprit?

----------


## cj111

You takin this on non workout days ? if so when do you do the PWO vit c , cysteine?

----------


## austinite

> You takin this on non workout days ? if so when do you do the PWO vit c , cysteine?


Yep. Same time daily. on days off, same schedule. No change. Just pretend you worked out  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Doom44

Aust it's ok to take citrulline malate (4g) and l-arginine (2.5g) mix with vitargo take it 20-30 minutes before workout?

----------


## austinite

^ I don't know what Vitargo is.

----------


## redhawk01

> ^ I don't know what Vitargo is.


http://www.vitargo.com/

----------


## austinite

^ Still don't know. I'm not going to sift through 100 products. lol. Doom, you'll need to post the label.

----------


## Doom44

> ^ Still don't know. I'm not going to sift through 100 products. lol. Doom, you'll need to post the label.







Vitargo is something like dextrose or maltodextrin but more faster.

----------


## austinite

Hey doom. That's nutritional facts. I need to know how much quantity of each active ingredient.

----------


## Doom44

> Hey doom. That's nutritional facts. I need to know how much quantity of each active ingredient.



Sorry I can't find it man. But I hope this like will help http://www.vitargo.com/faq/

----------


## cj111

Whats the difference between Mag citrate and just straight mag? 

I took some mag last night, with glutamine and some arg, I felt high as a kite. I duno what the hell it did to me but holy hell

----------


## austinite

> Whats the difference between Mag citrate and just straight mag? 
> 
> I took some mag last night, with glutamine and some arg, I felt high as a kite. I duno what the hell it did to me but holy hell


faster absorption, higher bioavailability.

lol. Magnesium is a muscle relaxer. Is it the first time you take Arginine? Maybe your body was shocked.

----------


## austinite

> Sorry I can't find it man. But I hope this like will help Vitargo - The best carbohydrate in the world


Sorry brother. I want to help but nothing there either. Maybe email the company and ask them where to find it.

----------


## Doom44

> Sorry brother. I want to help but nothing there either. Maybe email the company and ask them where to find it.



Alright,

----------


## Doom44

How about if I change the question. Can I take citrulline (4g) and l-arginine (2.5g) mix it with carbs drink take it 20-30 minutes before workout?

----------


## austinite

> How about if I change the question. Can I take citrulline (4g) and l-arginine (2.5g) mix it with carbs drink take it 20-30 minutes before workout?


yes.

----------


## Doom44

> yes.


Thanks

----------


## Giggle

Hey there - me with more questions. 
First, I see you take Metformin before dinner. I thought it was incorporated early in the day like before breakfast? It's useful as I understand it, to better manage carb intake. Wouldn't it be better to have it active during breakfast and lunch instead of dinner, since the duration is 4 hours?

Second question - you supplement with Copper and Zinc. I've been reading a bit on cutting out these metals due to increased risk of Alzheimer's. Do you have any thoughts about this new research? Personally, I've eliminated them, but I'm looking for more studies to come along.
Thanks!!

----------


## austinite

> Hey there - me with more questions. 
> First, I see you take Metformin before dinner. I thought it was incorporated early in the day like before breakfast? It's useful as I understand it, to better manage carb intake. Wouldn't it be better to have it active during breakfast and lunch instead of dinner, since the duration is 4 hours?
> 
> Second question - you supplement with Copper and Zinc. I've been reading a bit on cutting out these metals due to increased risk of Alzheimer's. Do you have any thoughts about this new research? Personally, I've eliminated them, but I'm looking for more studies to come along.
> Thanks!!


Hi Giggle,

Half life is 6.2 hours. Plasma half life of Metformin is 18 hours. Ideally, you could split the tablet for AM/PM intake. I take T3 in the morning, T3 and Metformin need to be as far apart as possible to avoid adverse interaction. Irun T3 often, so when I am not on T3, I keep the same schedule anyway.

No concerns with Copper and Zinc. I have not seen any studies, only articles and theories. I use both in combination with DIM to keep my estrogen in range, that way I don't have to use an expensive prescription. There's a lot of benefit to these 2.

----------


## Giggle

Thanks - I didn't know that about T3.
I have a bottle of that set aside, but haven't needed it yet. I always worry that if I use too much T3, or too often, I could suppress my natural thyroid production. Is there any chance of that?

Gotya on the copper and zinc - but you be careful haha.

----------


## austinite

> Thanks - I didn't know that about T3.
> I have a bottle of that set aside, but haven't needed it yet. I always worry that if I use too much T3, or too often, I could suppress my natural thyroid production. Is there any chance of that?
> 
> Gotya on the copper and zinc - but you be careful haha.


Nothing to worry about with Thyroid suppression. It comes back quick!

http://forums.steroid.com/supplement...how-works.html

----------


## Giggle

> Nothing to worry about with Thyroid suppression. It comes back quick!
> 
> http://forums.steroid.com/supplement...how-works.html


OOOH thank you very much - you're like a great big ole Santa Clause tonight!

----------


## human project

> Headaches are one of the side effects. Then again, that's a side effect listed on every supplement on earth. try lowering your dose. Have you eliminated it for a while to confirm that DHEA is the culprit?


Honestly don't know.... I use to take basically all supplements "including DHEA" I could afford from end of my sophomore year of high school till a couple years into college... After I moved on to cycling it got too expensive not to mention I use to work in a few supplement stores over the years I used them... Now I only take bcaa's, additional lucine immediately upon waking pre cardio, bcaa's during, a shake here and there and glutamine.... A few other amino's from time to time but I'm thinking about getting back on a all out supplement stack if it can fit in to my budget... I do remember the DHEA giving me headaches which i almost never get...'

----------


## sawyer86

> ^ I don't know what Vitargo is.


Vitargo is a fast acting carb similar to dextrose but about ten times as expensive. Its claims to be the fastest acting carb thers is, something like 68% faster than sugar.

----------


## cj111

Was doing some reading today for school. Just learned an interesting fact..

Methionine is the first codon in a strand of mRNA ! 

When I read it I thought to myself hey that's an amino acid austinite uses in his vascularity stack!! Sigh, I need to get out more lol

----------


## austinite

> Was doing some reading today for school. Just learned an interesting fact..
> 
> Methionine is the first codon in a strand of mRNA ! 
> 
> When I read it I thought to myself hey that's an amino acid austinite uses in his vascularity stack!! Sigh, I need to get out more lol


lol. Nice!

----------


## MagillaRU

Austitine - quick question re: the vascular stack. Does it matter whether it's L-cysteine or NAC? I've been taking 500mg of NAC instead of the 1,000mg of L-cysteine. Also, I think I may have to discontinue the Tyrosine before bed....had trouble sleeping last night (increased energy and racing thoughts). Or do you think those sides will dissipate over time?

----------


## austinite

> Austitine - quick question re: the vascular stack. Does it matter whether it's L-cysteine or NAC? I've been taking 500mg of NAC instead of the 1,000mg of L-cysteine. Also, I think I may have to discontinue the Tyrosine before bed....had trouble sleeping last night (increased energy and racing thoughts). Or do you think those sides will dissipate over time?


Yes, it matters. 

Never had tyrosine cause insomnia for me. Should go away though. Just take it when you're really sleepy.

----------


## MagillaRU

Damn. haha The store only had NAC and figured that would suffice. Thanks man!

----------


## austinite

Ugh. Ran out of Tyrosine and didn't even realize it. I guess it's Phenylalanine for now until Tyrosine comes in  :Frown:

----------


## sawyer86

Im just waiting for my methionine then i can get started.

----------


## austinite

> Im just waiting for my methionine then i can get started.


Nice!  :Smilie:

----------


## austinite

20 mg Synephrine
4 gram citrulline
3 gram arginine 
2 gram ornithine
3 gram vit. C
50,000 IU vit. D3
5 mg cialis

Lemonade powerhouse.

----------


## FRDave

> 20 mg Synephrine
> 4 gram citrulline
> 3 gram arginine
> 2 gram ornithine
> 3 gram vit. C
> 50,000 IU vit. D3
> 5 mg cialis
> 
> Lemonade powerhouse.


Bet that sucker is bitter. I mix my arginine and citrulline in a shot of water and it taste like pure lemon juice extract. Super bitter.

----------


## austinite

> Bet that sucker is bitter. I mix my arginine and citrulline in a shot of water and it taste like pure lemon juice extract. Super bitter.


Not at all. Can't even taste anything but lemonade. You just concentrate your lemonade more.

----------


## FRDave

> Not at all. Can't even taste anything but lemonade. You just concentrate your lemonade more.


Is it actually mixed with real lemonade? If so I could see there being no taste. I'm just to lazy for all that lol.

----------


## austinite

> Is it actually mixed with real lemonade? If so I could see there being no taste. I'm just to lazy for all that lol.


No, I use those 5 calorie packets that you just mix with water. The packet makes about a 20 oz, that's 8 ounces of water in my mix.

----------


## FRDave

> No, I use those 5 calorie packets that you just mix with water. The packet makes about a 20 oz, that's 8 ounces of water in my mix.


Now that I think of it, I have some too. Maybe I'll give it a try tomorrow. Or some lemonade powerhouse Popsicles lol

----------


## austinite

> Now that I think of it, I have some too. Maybe I'll give it a try tomorrow. Or some lemonade powerhouse Popsicles lol


lol, I've made amino-sicles before. Mmmm.

----------


## FRDave

> lol, I've made amino-sicles before. Mmmm.


I know. I always hear you mentioning Popsicles lol. If I did the kids would be bouncing off the walls haha

----------


## austinite

*There's no such thing as a stupid question*

I receive a TON of Private Messages regarding this thread. Folks, there are no silly questions. Every single question is valid and useful to others. The only stupid questions are the ones we don't ask! Please ask questions here, there is nothing to be embarrassed about. Everyone will benefit from your questions and the answers you receive. If you have a good reason where privacy is vital, I understand. Otherwise, please post your questions here. 

*PM box is overwhelming at the moment* and I can barely keep up with it. I prefer to answer questions publicly.

Thanks, your friend,

~ Austinite

----------


## EarlyMuscles

Just recieved a bulk order of everything in the vascularity stack plus some ALCAR. Would it be alright for me to take everything daily?

----------


## austinite

^ yes.

----------


## EarlyMuscles

Should I be taking the cysteine and vitamin c with a protein shake/meal or empty stomach? Thanks

----------


## austinite

doesnt matter.

----------


## chi

what brand of nac do you use?

----------


## austinite

> what brand of nac do you use?


Raw powder, I buy wholesale. 

When I used OTC stuff I just used NOW products. Works great.

----------


## Rusty11

About an hour ago, I took my first dose of arganine and citrulline in powder form-NOW brand. I've been taking a few pills a day for the past couple of months. I took it with water on an empty stomach. So, I'm sitting here pretty nauseated. I only took a half dose of both. Do I really need to take these supps on an empty stomach? It's time for dinner and I 'ain't hungry.

----------


## austinite

> About an hour ago, I took my first dose of arganine and citrulline in powder form-NOW brand. I've been taking a few pills a day for the past couple of months. I took it with water on an empty stomach. So, I'm sitting here pretty nauseated. I only took a half dose of both. Do I really need to take these supps on an empty stomach? It's time for dinner and I 'ain't hungry.


No, you don't have to.

----------


## Rusty11

Ok Thanks, bud. Just ate dinner and feel better. I'll throw it in a shake, milk, or something else.

----------


## MajorPectorial

Don't put citt in a shake or milk. Taste like shit as a raw. Just dissolve it in half a glass of h2o before downing and chasing with plain water. Or if like me used as a pre workout then chase with blk coffee. (As part of ur pre. W.o)

----------


## Rusty11

Yea. Now I know what ass tastes like. I'll take it with water, just not on an empty stomach next time.

----------


## MajorPectorial

Yeh. Lol. I mix in my msm crystals too. Got a bad shoulder (again). After achieving a new personal best 70kg barbel curl. After 4 my spotter was not on full alert n didn't keep the bar moving. For some reason he just stopped helping on the way up. Really wrenched at my shoulder joint. Been deep tissue massaging for 2 days. Luckily had leg today. N was OK holding bar across my shoulders. But at some angles. Pain is tbh. Quite sharp. No sh1ttin. 
Anyway. That's just what I do. Take my omega with that. Chase with my creatine laced water I use for gym. On nsaids too. Hoping it dont hold me bk tomorrow. Gunna pre exhaust chest n tris with ISO moves first. Hopefully circumventing the need for much heavier weight

----------


## Rusty11

Time for a new spotter.  :Wink:

----------


## Rusty11

Ok. So today I took 4g/1g of arganine/citrulline in powdered form as a pre-workout for the first time. I didn't feel anything, but damn if I didn't have the best delt/tri workout ever. Shoulders on fire. austinite, luv 'ya, man :Wink:

----------


## austinite

> Ok. So today I took 4g/1g of arganine/citrulline in powdered form as a pre-workout for the first time. I didn't feel anything, but damn if I didn't have the best delt/tri workout ever. Shoulders on fire. austinite, luv 'ya, man


hahaha. Enjoy buddy. It get's even better over time  :Smilie:

----------


## sawyer86

Does magnesium and melatonin before bed need to be taken on an empty stomach?

----------


## austinite

> Does magnesium and melatonin before bed need to be taken on an empty stomach?


Shouldn't matter. Only concern is comfort state.

----------


## sawyer86

Ok thanks

----------


## base4291ball

Probably has already been asked and answered many times but I saw in the read that oral is a little less potent or you don't get all the b12 out of a oral compared to inject. How many mcg's should be taken of methyl b12 drops while on cycle and off cycle? Thanks austinite...

----------


## austinite

> Probably has already been asked and answered many times but I saw in the read that oral is a little less potent or you don't get all the b12 out of a oral compared to inject. How many mcg's should be taken of methyl b12 drops while on cycle and off cycle? Thanks austinite...


Oral or sublingual? Drops from arr are subL. 

Anyway just depends on how much you need. I run 5000 subL daily. 

Oral is just not good enough so I wouldnt even bother with orals. Either subL or inject.

----------


## base4291ball

i don't know if these are subL or not. it doesnt say anything about them being subL. See if you can help me austinite, thanks

this is the website, hope i'm not breaking rules posting it... http://www.holisticheal.com/methyl-12-mega-drops.html

----------


## austinite

No idea. Contact manufacturer.

----------


## base4291ball

> No idea. Contact manufacturer.


Alright thanks

----------


## base4291ball

> <img src="http://forums.steroid .com/attachment.php?attachmentid=144147"/><img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=144148"/>
> 
> i don't know if these are subL or not. it doesnt say anything about them being subL. See if you can help me austinite, thanks
> 
> this is the website, hope i'm not breaking rules posting it... http://www.holisticheal.com/methyl-12-mega-drops.html


Talked to manufacturer and they are subL. What would you advise for use while on your recommended "first cycle" article. How many mcg's? Thanks austinite...

----------


## base4291ball

Any idea austinite what the dose of the methyl b-12 subL I should take on a 12 week Testo-e arimidex hcg you have in your first timer thread? Thanks!

----------


## austinite

5000 daily if bulking. 1000 daily otherwise

----------


## base4291ball

> 5000 daily if bulking. 1000 daily otherwise


Thanks austinite!! You're the best

----------


## Rusty11

> 5000 daily if bulking. 1000 daily otherwise


Is this because your appetite goes up on 5000? Or is there another reason for the increase when bulking?

----------


## austinite

^ mostly appetite, but bulks also come with fatigue and the higher doses should help with a better overall well being.

----------


## Rusty11

Great. Thanks. I've been gaining steadily over the past two years-nearly 30 lbs. I'm stuck at 180. I'm going to up my dose and see if I can EAT MORE FOOD.

----------


## austinite

Woke up with a nasty cold this morning. So I took the following:

5 grams Vitamin C
3 grams L-Cysteine
3000 mcg Methyl B12 injection

We shall see........

----------


## sawyer86

Austinite how long before training should i take the lre workout part of the vascularity stack? And also is it ok to add whey protein and something like dextrose to the post workout part?

----------


## austinite

> Austinite how long before training should i take the lre workout part of the vascularity stack? And also is it ok to add whey protein and something like dextrose to the post workout part?


30 to 45 minutes before lifting. Not cardio... Lifting.

----------


## base4291ball

> Woke up with a nasty cold this morning. So I took the following:
> 
> 5 grams Vitamin C
> 3 grams L-Cysteine
> 3000 mcg Methyl B12 injection
> 
> We shall see........


How are you feeling today austinite? Were you able to get in a workout yesterday? Will you be able to today? Did your stack work and now your better? Give us some details, thanks!

----------


## austinite

MUCH better. Actually felt better towards the end of the day yesterday. This morning I feel really good. I skipped the gym yesterday. Def. going tonight. Taking another dose today just in case.

----------


## base4291ball

> MUCH better. Actually felt better towards the end of the day yesterday. This morning I feel really good. I skipped the gym yesterday. Def. going tonight. Taking another dose today just in case.


Good to hear!  :Smilie:

----------


## Rusty11

> hahaha. Enjoy buddy. It get's even better over time


It's only been 5 days and I'm hesitant to make any overly-dramatic statements because it could all be placebo. BUT, I will anyway  :Smilie:  The powdered forms of arg/cit seem to be much more effective vs the pill form. BP is down 5 pts., erections wake me up in the morning, and workouts have been really good and intense. We'll see if this is all in my head.

----------


## austinite

^ LOL! That sounds like the real deal my friend!

----------


## sawyer86

So when is best to take it on a cardio only day?

----------


## austinite

Same time you take it on lifting days. Don't change timing. Same time, everyday.

----------


## sawyer86

I train difrent times every week because i work shifts.

----------


## austinite

LMAO, one objection after another. I don't know what to tell you then. lol. My recommendation to everyone, is to take it the same time daily.

Good luck.

----------


## sawyer86

Haha, yea i know. I cant help it i have to train around my shifts. I stay on each shift for a week so all i can do is take it the same time for a week at a time. Ive been on the vascularity stack plus other daily stuf you told me to take for 5 days now.havnt really noticed any difrence or new feeling apart from increased sex drive and waking up with an erection which is unusual for me as ive just came out of pct so my sex drive was very low.

----------


## austinite

Well it takes time. 5 days is nothing. lol. It's not magic  :Wink:

----------


## sawyer86

I was hoping you would say that. I have faith in your advice!

----------


## austinite

Yeah give it time. If you've timed it pre workout, you should be getting decent pumps at least though.

----------


## Venom

Hey Austinite what are your thoughts on creatinol-o-phosphate for overall endurance purposes?

----------


## austinite

> Hey Austinite what are your thoughts on creatinol-o-phosphate for overall endurance purposes?


No experience there.

----------


## Venom

> No experience there.


Alright thanks for the honest answer. Time to do what you always tell me to do, read up on it myself lol.

----------


## Rusty11

> Haha, yea i know. I cant help it i have to train around my shifts. I stay on each shift for a week so all i can do is take it the same time for a week at a time. Ive been on the vascularity stack plus other daily stuf you told me to take for 5 days now.havnt really noticed any difrence or new feeling apart from increased sex drive and waking up with an erection which is unusual for me as ive just came out of pct so my sex drive was very low.


Increased sex drive, increased erections....sounds like a great start to me.

----------


## Dadstrength

Sorry if I missed this question in the thread. 
But horny goat weed, would you recommend that during a pct? Same protocol. 2mgs a day morning and before bed (with pct meds).

----------


## austinite

> Sorry if I missed this question in the thread. 
> But horny goat weed, would you recommend that during a pct? Same protocol. 2mgs a day morning and before bed (with pct meds).


Well, we didnt discuss PCT in this thread. But sure, it doesn't hurt. But it won't help either.

----------


## sawyer86

Aust, i know you said not to take the vascularity stack before cardio but if im having a cardio only day would it not help taking it before and after cardio?

----------


## sawyer86

Aust, i know you said not to take the vascularity stack before cardio but if im having a cardio only day would it not help taking it before and after cardio?

----------


## austinite

I never said it would hurt cardio or efforts.

Just follow the protocol and timing.

----------


## sawyer86

Justnot really clued up on cardio and want to get it right.

----------


## austinite

Just follow the protocol and timing. You'll be fine.

----------


## Gaspaco

Does l citruline spose to taste sour as hell aust??

----------


## zeeibi

stopped reading and purchased more NAC.

----------


## austinite

> Does l citruline spose to taste sour as hell aust??


Yes, lol.

----------


## austinite

> stopped reading and purchased more NAC.


Good call Z!

----------


## Gaspaco

> Yes, lol.


Good, I tough they send me vitamin C bulk.

----------


## Rusty11

> Does l citruline spose to taste sour as hell aust??


LoL. I mix arg w/ cit. I wasn't sure which one was the culprit. But, I guzzle that down so quick, I don't even care anymore. I'd put it in the taste category of ass, not sour. :Smilie:

----------


## austinite

I just add it to a powdered flavored drink. Cant taste anything but the drink.

----------


## Rusty11

C'mon...not even a hint of ass?  :Wink: 
Where's the fun in that?
Think I'll try some crystal light.

----------


## Tnatious

Austinite, pardon the interruption my friend...could you please take a look at this:
http://forums.steroid.com/rate-your-...utics-inc.html
Again, sorry for hacking your thread my man! I value your input (experience,knowledge,intellect)

----------


## austinite

> Austinite, pardon the interruption my friend...could you please take a look at this:
> http://forums.steroid.com/rate-your-...utics-inc.html
> Again, sorry for hacking your thread my man! I value your input (experience,knowledge,intellect)


Stay off my thread. I responded to your DEAD thread and you get an attitude? I was the ONLY one to give it the slightest thought.

----------


## Rusty11

Sometimes I love austinite.
Anyway, between the cialis and the arg/cit, I'm waking up at 3am with a raging hard-on. TMI, I know.

----------


## austinite

> Sometimes I love austinite.
> Anyway, between the cialis and the arg/cit, I'm waking up at 3am with a raging hard-on. TMI, I know.


lol. GF/Wife happy about that?? Take melatonin before bed, might help you sleep through it.

----------


## Rusty11

Yea. Wife is happy, but not at 3am. I was a twice a month guy, now I'm a thrice a week guy...not including my own private time...lol

----------


## austinite

> Yea. Wife is happy, but not at 3am. I was a twice a month guy, now I'm a thrice a week guy...not including my own private time...lol


Nice! Way to go, Rusty! haha.

----------


## Bulgarian79

Austinite my friend - You are my idol! Seriously! I would love to hire you in a near future as a personal guru  :Smilie: ! How can I get in contact with you? I am a new member and is not letting me to pm you? I have some private questions related to supplements and etc. Would really appreciated if you get in touch with me. 

Thanks  :Smilie:

----------


## austinite

> Austinite my friend - You are my idol! Seriously! I would love to hire you in a near future as a personal guru ! How can I get in contact with you? I am a new member and is not letting me to pm you? I have some private questions related to supplements and etc. Would really appreciated if you get in touch with me. 
> 
> Thanks


I don't really PM much. I prefer to answer questions in the open forums so everyone can learn from the feedback. You can PM once you have 50 posts. 

Thanks for the kind words.

----------


## austinite

New Injectable vials on the way. 

Each ML contains...

L-Ornithine 100mg
L-Arginine 100mg
L-Citrulline 100mg 

I'll be trying this both IM and IV to see how much difference it makes.

----------


## Sfla80

> New Injectable vials on the way.
> 
> Each ML contains...
> 
> L-Ornithine 100mg
> L-Arginine 100mg
> L-Citrulline 100mg
> 
> I'll be trying this both IM and IV to see how much difference it makes.


Doc prescribed? And would subq work at all?

----------


## austinite

> Doc prescribed? And would subq work at all?


Yes.

I'm going to inject IM or IV. because a whole ml is too much for subQ, but it would still work

----------


## redhawk01

> New Injectable vials on the way.
> 
> Each ML contains...
> 
> L-Ornithine 100mg
> L-Arginine 100mg
> L-Citrulline 100mg
> 
> I'll be trying this both IM and IV to see how much difference it makes.


Doesn't seem like much. Are they more potent injected? 
Human guinea pig you are. Lol

----------


## austinite

> Doesn't seem like much. Are they more potent injected? 
> Human guinea pig you are. Lol


Ha, I've injected amino's before. First time with Ornithine, which completes the urea cycle along with the other 2. And yes, very potent, but I'll probably inject more than 1 ML at once.

----------


## redhawk01

> Ha, I've injected amino's before. First time with Ornithine, which completes the urea cycle along with the other 2. And yes, very potent, but I'll probably inject more than 1 ML at once.


Way back when, I did this stack w/ornithine, tyrosine, b6, chromium. Supposed to work on gh release. I was taking up to 10gms of ornithine, pre/wo, and before bed. Timing just so, as not to compete with other aminos crossing blood brain barrier. 
I'll keep an eye out on your progress.

----------


## Rusty11

> New Injectable vials on the way. 
> 
> Each ML contains...
> 
> L-Ornithine 100mg
> L-Arginine 100mg
> L-Citrulline 100mg 
> 
> I'll be trying this both IM and IV to see how much difference it makes.


Give me a break!! You get me on the powdered forms then abandon these for injectables
Have you no morals?  :Wink:   :Wink:

----------


## austinite

> Give me a break!! You get me on the powdered forms then abandon these for injectables
> Have you no morals?


lmao. I mentioned before that my goal is to have 1 or 2 injections of everything at one point. This is just a step towards that.  :Smilie:  - Glutathione is next, so no more NAC powder.

----------


## Rusty11

Great. I'm sure you'll let us know if you experience a difference between the two-powdered vs injectables.

----------


## sawyer86

So ive been on the vascularity stack for about 10 days. Also started taking some other stuff at the same time what austin put me onto, coq10,vit e, vit d, b12, vit c, melatonin and magnesium. Last few days ive been feeling great so things must be working!

----------


## austinite

> So ive been on the vascularity stack for about 10 days. Also started taking some other stuff at the same time what austin put me onto, coq10,vit e, vit d, b12, vit c, melatonin and magnesium. Last few days ive been feeling great so things must be working!


Good work, Sawyer! Stay powerful, my friend.

----------


## sawyer86

Also just ordered some NAC. My supp list is crazy now ill have to post a pic!

----------


## austinite

^ Take a pic!

----------


## gearbox

I guess ill post mine sometimes. Mine looks similar to aust.

----------


## austinite

> I guess ill post mine sometimes. Mine looks similar to aust.


ata boy! haha. Supplements baby yeah!!! (Hulk Hogan voice)

----------


## starscream

Austinite, you need to just start buying in crazy bulk and selling pre bundled "protocal kits" haha na... Not worth the time

But I bet you could make some money on the side!

----------


## austinite

> Austinite, you need to just start buying in crazy bulk and selling pre bundled "protocal kits" haha na... Not worth the time
> 
> But I bet you could make some money on the side!


Conflict of interest. I'm already a retailer. Thank you though.

----------


## cj111

Well, a cold sore popped up yesterday. I usually get 1-2 per year, and they usually only last a few days. I use Lysine cream, and am currently taking L-Lysine 2 grams a day. Well this time the cold sore isn't letting up and actually got worse, which I found weird. 
Did a bit of reading and turns out L-Arg is bad for cold sores, and actually competes with the same receptors as L-Lysine. I don't know much about the subject but just read a bit on google. Turns out lots of people complain of breaking out with HSV when supplementing with arginine, sucks! I never made the connection in the past. Discontinueing arginine for a bit I guess! 

As far as them competing for the same receptor, doesn't that make it kind of redundant to take them both pre workout? Hopefully you can clarify austin

----------


## austinite

> Well, a cold sore popped up yesterday. I usually get 1-2 per year, and they usually only last a few days. I use Lysine cream, and am currently taking L-Lysine 2 grams a day. Well this time the cold sore isn't letting up and actually got worse, which I found weird. 
> Did a bit of reading and turns out L-Arg is bad for cold sores, and actually competes with the same receptors as L-Lysine. I don't know much about the subject but just read a bit on google. Turns out lots of people complain of breaking out with HSV when supplementing with arginine, sucks! I never made the connection in the past. Discontinueing arginine for a bit I guess! 
> 
> As far as them competing for the same receptor, doesn't that make it kind of redundant to take them both pre workout? Hopefully you can clarify austin


Which receptors? Absorptive? These 2 utilize completely different metabolic pathways.

----------


## Venom

Hey Austinite, any experiences or knowledge on either Fadogia Agrestis or Bulbine Natalensis?

----------


## austinite

No...

----------


## Venom

> No...


Damn lol

----------


## sawyer86

Hello austinite, just an update. Been on the vascularity stack for around 3 weeks now and to be honest i dont think its doing much for me. Also been taking coq10 b12 vit d3 vit c creatine melatonin magnesium. The second week i felt great, but first week and this week nothing.

----------


## austinite

> Hello austinite, just an update. Been on the vascularity stack for around 3 weeks now and to be honest i dont think its doing much for me. Also been taking coq10 b12 vit d3 vit c creatine melatonin magnesium. The second week i felt great, but first week and this week nothing.


bummer. Everyone is different.  :Smilie:

----------


## sawyer86

I figured that everyones body is diffrent and we all react diffrent. Do you think theres any point continuing?

----------


## austinite

> I figured that everyones body is diffrent and we all react diffrent. Do you think theres any point continuing?


even of you don't feel it,you're benefitting. You can check your NO levels. 

It's your call.

----------


## sawyer86

Really? How do i check my no levels?

----------


## austinite

> Really? How do i check my no levels?


google no test strips.

----------


## sawyer86

Thanks man. ill stick with it and get tested.

----------


## jwh7699

Regarding fish oil. Does it make a difference taking it all in one dose or taking it in separate doses?

Thanks!!

----------


## austinite

> Regarding fish oil. Does it make a difference taking it all in one dose or taking it in separate doses?
> 
> Thanks!!


Spread the dose out. At least morning and night.

----------


## rotty2

What brand of DIM do you use for your TRT austinite ?

----------


## austinite

> What brand of DIM do you use for your TRT austinite ?


NuMedica.

----------


## rotty2

Being a TRT patient I took your advice and bought some maca, what about maca is so critical for TRT patients ?

----------


## austinite

> Being a TRT patient I took your advice and bought some maca, what about maca is so critical for TRT patients ?


Posted on the first page buddy. I'll go into detail when I get back from work.

----------


## rotty2

Thank you

----------


## austinite

Thank you, *Kelkel* for referring me to the trial below...

*Dose-related increase of HDL-cholesterol levels after N-acetylcysteine in man.*

*Abstract*
Changes in plasma lipid-lipoprotein levels were evaluated in 10 hyperlipidemic patients during treatment with progressive doses (from 1200 mg day-1 to 3600 mg day-1) of N-acetylcysteine (NAC). Plasma total cholesterol and triglyceride levels, as well as those of lipoprotein (a) did not change to an appreciable extent, even with the highest dosage. However, the HDL-cholesterol levels showed a significant, dose-related rise, the mean absolute increase, with the highest NAC dose, being of approximately 10 mg dl-1 (16.2%). The rise of HDL-cholesterol was independent of changes in other lipid-lipoprotein parameters, suggesting a possible direct effect of NAC on the HDL system.

_https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8108311/?i=5&from=/1674031/related_

----------


## austinite

Shameless plug for T-dogg: 

http://forums.steroid.com/supplement...r-powders.html

----------


## t-dogg

Haha thanks!!!

----------


## jwh7699

Thoughts on Milk Thistle vs. NAC? 

Thanks!!

----------


## austinite

> Thoughts on Milk Thistle vs. NAC? 
> 
> Thanks!!


NAC is the gold standard of over the counter supplements. Milk Thistle is as good as garbage.

----------


## uoflcards

Austinite, didn't you have a "pump supplement" thread. I can't seem to find it. What do you think about nitrate capsules?

----------


## austinite

> Austinite, didn't you have a "pump supplement" thread. I can't seem to find it. What do you think about nitrate capsules?


Pump? No not really. The vascularity stack brings killer pumps. listed at the end of OP in this thread. 

What are nitrate caps? Got the data sheet?

----------


## uoflcards

Potassium Nitrate by iForce Nutrition at Bodybuilding.com - Lowest Prices on Potassium Nitrate!

----------


## krugerr

Hey Aust - I meant to post in here last week. The BBC released an artical on Vitamin D.

Also last night on TV was a little documentary called 'Trust me, Im a doctor' - and it basically was saying that everyone gets all their RDA of vitamins from an average diet. Everything else is wasted, and therefore vitamin supplements are wasted unless you are known to have a deficiency.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...tor_Episode_2/


Not exactly the most informative, but thought it might interest you slightly.

----------


## devil-1986

Hi ^

I bought Nac at 600 mg dose and my question about nac is what is the dosage for normalized liver enzymes and Healthy liver should be taken daily ? And how long ?

and What time of the day ? morning ? evening ? night ? or before sleep ? whit food or what ?

----------


## devil-1986

I am waiting for THE answer ....

----------


## austinite

> Potassium Nitrate by iForce Nutrition at Bodybuilding.com - Lowest Prices on Potassium Nitrate!


I wouldn't use it... Doesn't hurt but not exactly beneficial.

----------


## austinite

> Hey Aust - I meant to post in here last week. The BBC released an artical on Vitamin D.
> 
> Also last night on TV was a little documentary called 'Trust me, Im a doctor' - and it basically was saying that everyone gets all their RDA of vitamins from an average diet. Everything else is wasted, and therefore vitamin supplements are wasted unless you are known to have a deficiency.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...tor_Episode_2/
> 
> 
> Not exactly the most informative, but thought it might interest you slightly.


RDA is a joke and based on 2000 calorie diet. I guess all of my blood work is fake, lol. 

I have not seen the video, but can you give me the reason ? Because science says otherwise. 

This would be a 20 page post if I went into details on how wrong that statement/video is. It's like saying the moon does not exist. But give me any scientific evidence from that video and I will prove it wrong. I just don't want to argue a random video with no basis, you know what I mean?

We have to understand that healthy does not mean optimum. Healthy ranges just keeps you out of deficiency with no side effects. Not optimum.

----------


## devil-1986

austinite PLEASE ANSWER MY POST .
THANKS

----------


## austinite

> Hi ^ I bought Nac at 600 mg dose and my question about nac is what is the dosage for normalized liver enzymes and Healthy liver should be taken daily ? And how long ? and What time of the day ? morning ? evening ? night ? or before sleep ? whit food or what ?


 600 mg at least every other day is fine. I prefer daily. Take it any time of the day, just be consistent daily with your timing. I take it on empty stomach in the morning.

----------


## Dadstrength

I was reading in 'Marcus diary' thread and saw that after a intense hit workout you supplemented with 9 grams of arginine. You stated it was to boost the natural HGH production. Is that recommended for intense workouts?
Just curious on the reason for 9 grams before bed. Is that a standard protocol for you?

----------


## austinite

> I was reading in 'Marcus diary' thread and saw that after a intense hit workout you supplemented with 9 grams of arginine. You stated it was to boost the natural HGH production. Is that recommended for intense workouts?
> Just curious on the reason for 9 grams before bed. Is that a standard protocol for you?


That is what you can do before bed, not necessarily post workout. 5 to 9 grams will amplify resting growth hormone secretin.

----------


## Dadstrength

> That is what you can do before bed, not necessarily post workout. 5 to 9 grams will amplify resting growth hormone secretin.


Ok because I've been following your vascular stack for almost a month now and its been workjng very well. Just as a quick side note are there any other supplements that amplify the growth hormone secretion? I heard some carbs before bed also does the trick.

----------


## austinite

> Ok because I've been following your vascular stack for almost a month now and its been workjng very well. Just as a quick side note are there any other supplements that amplify the growth hormone secretion? I heard some carbs before bed also does the trick.


GABA can. I don't know about carbs, seriously doubt it.

----------


## Dadstrength

> GABA can. I don't know about carbs, seriously doubt it.


Ok great. Thank you for the quick replies. I will definitely get my hands on some GABA. Definitely interesting to learn that about the arginine.
Just to be sure.
5-9 grams of arginine before bed.
How much GABA do you recommend before bed?

----------


## austinite

2 to 3 grams of Gaba would suffice.  :Smilie:

----------


## Dadstrength

> 2 to 3 grams of Gaba would suffice.


Will be trying this ASAP. Thank you again.

----------


## theRZA

Hey austinite,

I feel like I've been racking your brain from all corners of the web lately. So I've been compiling a shopping list online for vitamins/amino acids/ and other supplements you've recommended in the past. I train fasted (Mostly due to my IF protocol) and I've always taken a product like Scivation Xtend, or Modern BCAA powder which is mostly rich in Leucine. I know your vascularity stack is carefully formulated for a pre-workout supplement, but do I have to take extra precaution if I'm training fasted? For example, should I add some electrolytes, Leucine, Glutamine, B6, etc to prevent catabolism in a fasted state? I know this would be considered modifying your stack (which I'm not trying to do i swear :P) but I just dont want to eliminate an aspect to pre-workout supplementation that might be necessary when training fasted.

----------


## austinite

> Hey austinite,
> 
> I feel like I've been racking your brain from all corners of the web lately. So I've been compiling a shopping list online for vitamins/amino acids/ and other supplements you've recommended in the past. I train fasted (Mostly due to my IF protocol) and I've always taken a product like Scivation Xtend, or Modern BCAA powder which is mostly rich in Leucine. I know your vascularity stack is carefully formulated for a pre-workout supplement, but do I have to take extra precaution if I'm training fasted? For example, should I add some electrolytes, Leucine, Glutamine, B6, etc to prevent catabolism in a fasted state? I know this would be considered modifying your stack (which I'm not trying to do i swear :P) but I just dont want to eliminate an aspect to pre-workout supplementation that might be necessary when training fasted.


The vascularity stack is mostly all amino acids. If you maintain the doses, you can add whatever you want to it. It will be fine. 

The fat loss stack is precious to me. Others, not so much  :Smilie:  Play with it as you wish. And good idea by the way.

----------


## theRZA

> The vascularity stack is mostly all amino acids. If you maintain the doses, you can add whatever you want to it. It will be fine. 
> 
> The fat loss stack is precious to me. Others, not so much  Play with it as you wish. And good idea by the way.


Sounds good. Any recommendations as to what is absolutely necessary when training fasted? Like I mentioned before, the pre-packaged amino mixes usually emphasize glutamine, leucine, isoleucine, valine, B6, and potassium/sodium.

----------


## austinite

I never train fasted so I don't have an experienced opinion. But it looks like you've got BCAA's with B6. Can't go wrong with those really.

----------


## Brett N

Having a hard time finding L-Arginine (micronized).

Would this work - Amazon.com: BulkSupplements Pure L-Arginine Base Powder (100 grams): Health & Personal Care

----------


## austinite

> Having a hard time finding L-Arginine (micronized). Would this work - Amazon.com: BulkSupplements Pure L-Arginine Base Powder (100 grams): Health & Personal Care


that works just fine.

----------


## Phoenix18

Damn, I never realized how much I was missing out on. Time to make a few purchases! Great info here!

----------


## belva

Hey austinite,
I see you advice Maca for people on TRT, well I'm not on TRT but I wanted to ask you: what about if I supplement Maca during my pct? or should I wait to finish the PCT first and let the hormones regulate themselves for a month or 2 before start taking it?

ps: my pct is working fine right now, "morning wood always present  :Wink: , no emotional issue".

----------


## austinite

> Hey austinite, I see you advice Maca for people on TRT, well I'm not on TRT but I wanted to ask you: what about if I supplement Maca during my pct? or should I wait to finish the PCT first and let the hormones regulate themselves for a month or 2 before start taking it? ps: my pct is working fine right now, "morning wood always present , no emotional issue".


absolutely buddy. There's never a bad time for maca! Go for it.

----------


## belva

> absolutely buddy. There's never a bad time for maca! Go for it.


Thank you mate, Should I stick to the 1600mg ED to start and see how is going or it's better a higher dose?

----------


## austinite

> Thank you mate, Should I stick to the 1600mg ED to start and see how is going or it's better a higher dose?


i don't see a need to go higher. Just stick with the dose.

----------


## belva

> i don't see a need to go higher. Just stick with the dose.


Alright thanks mate, I'll keep you posted.

----------


## theRZA

I might be the only idiot having a hard time with this... but regarding the vascularity stack what's the easiest/most efficient way to pre-weigh and store all these powders by dose? Is it stupid if I put all the powders for preworkout, post workout, and bedtime in water bottles and store in the fridge? I feel like I'm wasting so much time each day weighing out all my powders as needed. Feel free to share  : 699:

----------


## austinite

> I might be the only idiot having a hard time with this... but regarding the vascularity stack what's the easiest/most efficient way to pre-weigh and store all these powders by dose? Is it stupid if I put all the powders for preworkout, post workout, and bedtime in water bottles and store in the fridge? I feel like I'm wasting so much time each day weighing out all my powders as needed. Feel free to share


why are you weighing them each time? You only need to weigh them one time when you first get them. Then just use whatever volume that was. Tablespoon, teaspoon, etc...

----------


## theRZA

Well i'm not weighing them each time, I just meant i'm individually scooping out each powder everytime. I guess i'm just being lazy, but I've been trying to devise a way to pre-weigh them into pre-workout, post-workout and bed time. Is it bad to put them in water and in the fridge overnight?

----------


## austinite

:Smilie:  Not sure what to tell ya. I just scoop and done. Sometimes I'll make an extra premixed one for later.You can put them in the fridge, no problem.

----------


## theRZA

> Not sure what to tell ya. I just scoop and done. Sometimes I'll make an extra premixed one for later.You can put them in the fridge, no problem.


Overnight? That's all I really need. I can deal with doing it the night before but when I leave for school and work in the morning and I'm pressed for time, the last thing I want to do is deal with all the scooping lol

----------


## austinite

Yeah sure. Cold is fine.

----------


## jwh7699

What are thoughts on L-Carnitine. Have you noticed a difference taking it vs. not taking it? Is it very dose dependent? I've taken it in the past at smaller doses and didn't see much effect.

Do you think it adds any additional benefit for people trying your fat loss stack?

Thanks!!

----------


## austinite

> What are thoughts on L-Carnitine. Have you noticed a difference taking it vs. not taking it? Is it very dose dependent? I've taken it in the past at smaller doses and didn't see much effect.
> 
> Do you think it adds any additional benefit for people trying your fat loss stack?
> 
> Thanks!!


I posted my thought in this very thread. In the original post. 

If you add anything to my at loss stack, it wouldn't be my stack  :Smilie:

----------


## jwh7699

No worries!! Thanks for the great info as always!! Best of Luck!!

----------


## armyranger516862006

Aus I am wanting to get your input on addons for a better PCT. Like Vitamins Minerals or any other supp that you recommend? I have the Basic Clomid and Nolva. Thanks!!

----------


## austinite

> Aus I am wanting to get your input on addons for a better PCT. Like Vitamins Minerals or any other supp that you recommend? I have the Basic Clomid and Nolva. Thanks!!


Really no need for anything specific. The 2 SERMs will do. However, if Clomid makes you feel groggy or lethargic, you can take advantage of L-Tryptophan in the morning, and heavy up on your B12 doses.

----------


## cgi

Will you talk about the benefits of Vitamin B-6 especially it's effects on reducing prolactin?

----------


## austinite

> Will you talk about the benefits of Vitamin B-6 especially it's effects on reducing prolactin?


The literature that I recall on B6 and prolactin was decades old, and I have not seen anything recent. We've developed considerably in the last 30 to 40 years since these studies and frankly, there are too many flaws in the ones I've seen. Vitaminn E and B6 have been touted, but I'm going with negligible differences, especially in the presense of progetsin. 

As for general benefits from B6 well it plays a smart role in metabolism (as a nutrient partitioner) and aids in serotonin secretion. The dopamine agonist properties exist, but are weak at best. So if you're naturally hovering slightly above range, it may help in high doses. But if anyone think it can combat steroid -induced-prolactin-excess... not a chance.

----------


## armyranger516862006

> Really no need for anything specific. The 2 SERMs will do. However, if Clomid makes you feel groggy or lethargic, you can take advantage of L-Tryptophan in the morning, and heavy up on your B12 doses.


Okay thank you Aus! I am currently using L Tryptophan and a bunch of others and am loving it!

----------


## basketballfan22

I feel bad doing this, but would you mind visiting the thread I created yesterday (http://forums.steroid.com/%2A%2Aconf...oid-panel.html)? I think I took too much time off from this site, and no one likes me anymore  :Frown: , lol. I just want to know what you specifically recommend for a thyroid panel and cortisol test.

I know I am hijacking this thread, so I will edit it out immediately if you'd like. I apologize in advance.

----------


## probuild42

Thought I would post my vitamin stack for advice. 

Fish oil 500 mg daily
vitamin E 200 mg daily
vitamin D 1000 iu daily
Vitamin C 500 mg morning and night
multi vitamin daily (Don't know if I get anything out of multi, I keep taking for the micro's and minerals. Is this a waste of space in pill container?) recommendations?
NAC 500mg daily

Arginine 1000 morning and pre workout
citrulline 1500 morning and pre workout

----------


## austinite

Hey pro,

Fish oil mg doesn't tell much. Need EPA/DHA. At 500 mg, I doubt it has much of anything. 

All of your doses are weak. Double E, quadruple D, sextuple C and ditch the multi.

NAC looks good.

----------


## probuild42

The fish oil is:

625mg Highly refined fish oil
356mg EPA
144mg DHA

So take E and fish oil morning and night, 4xD split morning and night, and just keep the C in back pocket.

My goal is to supp with decent daily stack. Anything I am missing that may be essential?

Thanks for the help

----------


## austinite

I would just go through the initial post and see what best fits your daily needs based on the descriptions I provided. Be sure your E is mixed tocopherol.

----------


## probuild42

Got it. Thanks.

----------


## devil-1986

can we use nac forever ? Or need to be rest later

----------


## austinite

> can we use nac forever ? Or need to be rest later


you can and you a should.

----------


## devil-1986

and about other vitamins and minerals my question is the same above how long can we take and use vitamins such as c,e,d,b,omega 3 , etc without Discontinue them ?

----------


## austinite

> and about other vitamins and minerals my question is the same above how long can we take and use vitamins such as c,e,d,b,omega 3 , etc without Discontinue them ?


Couple thousand years should be alright.  :Smilie:

----------


## devil-1986

now one more question please 
please tell me How should i divided this vitamins on Training and non-training days 

i am 28 years old and using 1 dose omega 3 1000 mg and green tea 450 mg in the morning and vitamin e 400 iu ,c 500 mg , NAC 600 mg just after workout as you said in your forum tell me what are you thinking about this ? 

are there any thing left and need to be added ?

----------


## austinite

> now one more question please please tell me How should i divided this vitamins on Training and non-training days i am 28 years old and using 1 dose omega 3 1000 mg and green tea 450 mg in the morning and vitamin e 400 iu ,c 500 mg , NAC 600 mg just after workout as you said in your forum tell me what are you thinking about this ? are there any thing left and need to be added ?


Just look at my protocol and you will see the splits. As for days off, treat them the same as any day.

----------


## devil-1986

she is so cute austinite whats her name ?

----------


## Super-Chump

What type of Zinc do you recommended? Methionine? Citrate?

Thanks

----------


## austinite

> What type of Zinc do you recommended? Methionine? Citrate? Thanks


citrate is fine.

----------


## Super-Chump

Thanks!

----------


## theRZA

Austinite, please tell me this article is somehow flawed or wrong....

Supplementation with vitamin C and N-acetyl-cysteine increases oxidative stress in humans after an acute muscle injury induced by eccentric exercise.

Supplementation with vitamin C and N-ace... [Free Radic Biol Med. 2001] - PubMed - NCBI

after a read through I'm considering taking out the post-workout part of your vascularity stack.Drop some knowledge before my brain explodes. lol

----------


## CrazyTeddy

Great post! thanks!

----------


## austinite

> Austinite, please tell me this article is somehow flawed or wrong....
> 
> Supplementation with vitamin C and N-acetyl-cysteine increases oxidative stress in humans after an acute muscle injury induced by eccentric exercise.
> 
> Supplementation with vitamin C and N-ace... [Free Radic Biol Med. 2001] - PubMed - NCBI
> 
> after a read through I'm considering taking out the post-workout part of your vascularity stack.Drop some knowledge before my brain explodes. lol


I'll reply when I get home from work. Pretty sure I have the full study, but I have to dig it up.

----------


## jomamma007

Not sure if this has been asked but, 100mgs of dhea is a hefty dose. Any increase in estradiol? 
Also is b12 in pill for worth it? What type would you recommend? Methyl??

----------


## jomamma007

> she is so cute austinite whats her name ?


dlb!

----------


## austinite

> Not sure if this has been asked but, 100mgs of dhea is a hefty dose. Any increase in estradiol? 
> Also is b12 in pill for worth it? What type would you recommend? Methyl??


No increase in e2. Pill b12 not worth it. methyl sublingual or injectable in best.

----------


## theRZA

Austinite, I'm still waiting to hear your response on that paper... I want knowledge to be dropped.

----------


## austinite

Maybe one day.

----------


## theRZA

:Frown:  Just tell me if it's wrong. lol I felt it made a pretty good claim, but I really want your opinion

----------


## austinite

I don't really feel like going through the study. Sorry. believe it or not, there are times when I need a break from all this. I'll respond when I feel like it.

----------


## theRZA

I wasn't trying to pressure you to dissect every minute detail...just wanted to know your 'verdict'

----------


## austinite

No..

----------


## theRZA

lol i respect you so much, but sometimes you frustrate me. respond whenever you get the chance...but I'm patiently awaiting it.

----------


## austinite

Not sure why you're frustrated, pretty sure I donate plenty of time to help out where I can. If I don't feel like reading a study, deal with it. I don't really need to hear about anyones frustrations with me... I'm not obligated to answer anything at all, ever.

----------


## theRZA

I just assumed when you said that you had the full study that you already read it. I also just thought you would tell me whether you think antioxidants are effective post workout despite what the study said. I don't think I was asking for much, but like I said...respond whenever you feel like it. I know you aren't paid to be on here and answer peoples questions.

----------


## austinite

Thought I had the study. I don't. I'll respond when I come across it and feel like answering. 

Thanks.

----------


## armyranger516862006

Top 5 Amino Acids for energy?

----------


## austinite

None. Amino acids do not give any surge of energy. Try b12.

----------


## armyranger516862006

I will look into it. Thanks!

----------


## devil-1986

you said in this thread 600mg daily Year round and in another thread you said 
POST WORKOUT:
L-Cysteine - 1 to 2 grams my question is finally which one of this dosage is good ? is 600 mg daily for post workout could enough or should only 1-2 grams after workout ?and in non training days which dose is better ?

im not in cycle

----------


## devil-1986

bump !

----------


## devil-1986

why you dont answer my question ?

----------


## austinite

> why you dont answer my question ?


Because I'm busy. Sorry...

The 600mg dose was for overall health. The high doses post workout of L-Cysteine are to aid in recovery for your muscles. 

You need to choose what you want to do from the list, you don't need to take everything.

----------


## devil-1986

> Because I'm busy. Sorry...
> 
> The 600mg dose was for overall health. The high doses post workout of L-Cysteine are to aid in recovery for your muscles. 
> 
> You need to choose what you want to do from the list, you don't need to take everything.


thanks .
then im take 1200 mg post work out. im looking for benefit of both recovery and overal health. is any need to take 600 mg in the morning or before work out and 600 or 1200 mg post work out for both muscle recovery and overal health? or just taking 1200 mg post work out do the same both recovery and overal health for me 
could enough 1200 mg post work out for recovery and overal health ?

----------


## austinite

If you want overall health you need to split the dose. But high doses are needed for recovery. 

Good luck.

----------


## theRZA

Austinite, I'm very impressed with the vascularity stack. Before taking this I have never seen a vein in my arms or shoulders.. And now I have extremely noticeable vascularity. Check the picture..

----------


## austinite

> Austinite, I'm very impressed with the vascularity stack. Before taking this I have never seen a vein in my arms or shoulders.. And now I have extremely noticeable vascularity. Check the picture..


Outstanding RZA. Good work, brother. Keep it up.

----------


## ChestNBack

Wu-tang, tha Ruler zig-zag-zig Allah Rza

----------


## itzj010210

Sorry

----------


## austinite

> What's your opion on BCAA pills or do you have a protocol I can read upon I know your a busy person thank you


Brother, did you really have to quote the entire post? Please edit...

----------


## itzj010210

> Brother, did you really have to quote the entire post? Please edit...


Sorry already edited

----------


## mockery

my wallets fallen victim to the 10g before the gym 10g during the work out and 10g PWO. But despite teh mix reviews that BCAA are fraud and something for company's to up sell. I am seeing a difference, not only me, the people at my gym and my partner. I guess Charles was correct in his findings for proper delivery of BCAA to prime the body.

----------


## austinite

> my wallets fallen victim to the 10g before the gym 10g during the work out and 10g PWO. But despite teh mix reviews that BCAA are fraud and something for company's to up sell. I am seeing a difference, not only me, the people at my gym and my partner. I guess Charles was correct in his findings for proper delivery of BCAA to prime the body.


well no one here says they're fraud.

----------


## smile

Great Thread Austinite!! very educational!

What about leucine ? thats also an essential amino acid

----------


## austinite

No leucine for me. No need for it. If your diet is lacking, go for it. Or better yet , get it via BCAA's.

----------


## smile

ohhh ok I see, you've only listed the ones that you take yourself.

----------


## austinite

correct.

----------


## devil-1986

what is difference between l-Cysteine and Acetyl Cysteine ? which one is the better one ?

----------


## austinite

> what is difference between l-Cysteine and Acetyl Cysteine ? which one is the better one ?


NAC is absorbed faster. Lots of comments in this thread. Makes for a good read when you have time.

----------


## Black Beard

BCAA's are definitely not a fraud. A lot of respected nutritionist and trainers swear by them. My friend loves the stuff too.

----------


## austinite

> BCAA's are definitely not a fraud. A lot of respected nutritionist and trainers swear by them. My friend loves the stuff too.


Who said anything about it being fraud? Your posts in this section are quite odd...

----------


## Black Beard

> my wallets fallen victim to the 10g before the gym 10g during the work out and 10g PWO. But despite teh mix reviews that BCAA are fraud and something for company's to up sell. I am seeing a difference, not only me, the people at my gym and my partner. I guess Charles was correct in his findings for proper delivery of BCAA to prime the body.


^^^^ So i said they are definitely not a fraud. They work

----------


## Cloudarella

Wow - that is an incredibly informative list of supplements! Thank you for doing all the legwork and sharing your research and personal experience. I am a great proponent of good supplements, especially mega-dosing with Vitamin C. It can do wonders in cutting a cold short. I take 1000mg every half hour until saturation (which manifests in very loose stool). The sicker one is, the more it takes to reach saturation. You have certainly nudged me to add a few more supplements to my daily list. Thank you again!

----------


## M302_Imola

Austinite, in your preworkout mix I see you use both Lysine and Arginine, but don't these two compete with each other and cancel the effects?

----------


## austinite

> Austinite, in your preworkout mix I see you use both Lysine and Arginine, but don't these two compete with each other and cancel the effects?


I've heard something similar in the past, but I can't find a correlation. If this were true, then that would be the same case for Arginine/Carnitine since Carnitine is in the identical pathway as Lysine. I'm looking at the Metablic Pathways now and they meet at Aspartate but clearly fork off without degradation. Maybe I need to dive further into this one...

----------


## M302_Imola

> I've heard something similar in the past, but I can't find a correlation. If this were true, then that would be the same case for Arginine/Carnitine since Carnitine is in the identical pathway as Lysine. I'm looking at the Metablic Pathways now and they meet at Aspartate but clearly fork off without degradation. Maybe I need to dive further into this one...


I've googled this very briefly and read a few things about the competition between the two, but like you I have't investigated thoroughly...I guess I'm lazy! lol If you do find anything pass it on my way please and I'll do the same.

----------


## RaginCajun

Hey aust, have you ever tried a stack to help out with collagen?

I have been looking into some and these seem to be the same aminos that keep popping up, lysine, proline, and vit c.

Just wondering if you have any experience with this combo?

----------


## austinite

> Hey aust, have you ever tried a stack to help out with collagen?
> 
> I have been looking into some and these seem to be the same aminos that keep popping up, lysine, proline, and vit c.
> 
> Just wondering if you have any experience with this combo?


Yeah aminos can help for sure. Copper however, dosed daily between 2 to 3 is a must in my opinion. Havent really looked into it too much, but look into some copper studies, it can be impressive. Also check zinc/copper combo's, great recipe for collagen.

----------


## RaginCajun

> Yeah aminos can help for sure. Copper however, dosed daily between 2 to 3 is a must in my opinion. Havent really looked into it too much, but look into some copper studies, it can be impressive. Also check zinc/copper combo's, great recipe for collagen.


Thanks and will do

----------


## jwh7699

Regarding Amino Acids. Wouldn't it be easier taking a protein powder with all of them in it? Thanks!!

----------


## austinite

> Regarding Amino Acids. Wouldn't it be easier taking a protein powder with all of them in it? Thanks!!


Not really. Not sure I understand. I personally avoid protein powders at all costs. Nothing but garbage ingredients in well over 90% of them out there.

----------


## jwh7699

Most protein powders have all the BCAAs included in them. My thoughts were that it would be easier to drink a protein drink vs. taking all the individual pills.

I'm guessing that taking the pills leads to better direct absorption of the Amino Acids.


I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on protein powders in a separate post.


Thanks for the great information!! Best of Luck!!

----------


## ermasta

Hello everyone! I am new to the community. First i have to give big thanks to Austinite's for all the help you provide in here. I have been reading (lurking) for awhile and have see a lot of the guys including you helping the noobs like myself.I actually found this thread a while back googleling for a pre-workout mix. I think i got this thread about page 19...anywho i have been doing the protocol below and have a few questions.

L-Citrulline Malate - 3 grams
L-Arginine (micronized) - 2 grams
L-Lysine - 2 grams
DHEA 25mg

The results have been nice but should i be cycling on and off any of these? I have a feeling that i should do it with the DHEA...

BTW I am over 35.

Thank you in advance

----------


## austinite

Welcome ermasta,

You do not need to cycle on and off with Amino Acids. DHEA is great if you need it. Mostly TRT patients use it, but it doesnt hurt if you're not. No need to cycle.

----------


## ermasta

> Welcome ermasta,
> 
> You do not need to cycle on and off with Amino Acids. DHEA is great if you need it. Mostly TRT patients use it, but it doesnt hurt if you're not. No need to cycle.



Thank you so much.

----------


## Moparman

So based on this thread and my other research, I've gone and purchased some injectable methyl B12

I got 5000 mcg/ml in a 15 ml bottle off amazon

At 1000 mcg a week that's only .2 ml which means I'll have enough for a while. I only paid $40 which unbelievably cheap. How can I tell if t's real or not? The seller says it's pharmaceutical grade made in USP25 grade compounds facility. And they said they can send me the COA for verification. I ask for it just to see. 

Last question- the research I've seen says that since it's water soluble that it gets pissed out in 24 to 72 hours. Wouldn't 2x or 3x a week be better?

----------


## austinite

You cant tell if it's real or not unless you mass spec it.. Too many people are now selling Hydroxy or Cyano as Methyl. $40? Try 180 bucks for a 10ml vial...

Frequency would be great, but for general health, there is no need. I inject twice weekly.

----------


## fLgAtOr

Great read. Thank you.

----------


## Moparman

Here's the CofA they sent me

----------


## austinite

> Here's the CofA they sent me


Don't know what to tell you. Methyl is not cheap, and they misspelled Methylcobalamin...

----------


## Moparman

I'm due for bloodwork anyways. I guess I'll try it for a week and see if my levels shoot up.

----------


## dusted411

I'm fairly new to this site, but one common theme I'm beginning to notice is that all of your threads are must reads. Thank you for taking the time to post this stuff for the people smart enough to take the time to read it. 
I've only been on here a few weeks and already I've gone back to some of your threads again and again.

----------


## basketballfan22

Hi austinite,

It's only been about a year since I joined this site; and I am now purchasing your recommended supplements, lol. With the conflicting studies I have encountered about vitamins, minerals, and supplements in general, I decided to give this whole stack a try for 2-3 months. If I notice great improvement, then I will continue the regimen. I will be sure to take before and after pictures and post them if it is a success.

I looked back on this thread and read the posts about magnesium that I asked a long time ago. I am currently about to purchase magnesium orotate. Now you recommend 400 mg of magnesium, but I assume that isn't elemental magnesium right? One of the capsules from the brand I plan to get contains 654 mg of magnesium orotate which consists of about 40 mg of elemental magnesium. I don't think I should be taking 10 of these a day, right? I attached a screenshot of the ingredients. From what I have found in other brands of magnesium and magnesium compounds (e.g. magnesium oxide), they don't actually list the amount of elemental magnesium. Anyway, I'd appreciate your input. Thanks.

----------


## austinite

> Hi austinite,
> 
> It's only been about a year since I joined this site; and I am now purchasing your recommended supplements, lol. With the conflicting studies I have encountered about vitamins, minerals, and supplements in general, I decided to give this whole stack a try for 2-3 months. If I notice great improvement, then I will continue the regimen. I will be sure to take before and after pictures and post them if it is a success.
> 
> I looked back on this thread and read the posts about magnesium that I asked a long time ago. I am currently about to purchase magnesium orotate. Now you recommend 400 mg of magnesium, but I assume that isn't elemental magnesium right? One of the capsules from the brand I plan to get contains 654 mg of magnesium orotate which consists of about 40 mg of elemental magnesium. I don't think I should be taking 10 of these a day, right? I attached a screenshot of the ingredients. From what I have found in other brands of magnesium and magnesium compounds (e.g. magnesium oxide), they don't actually list the amount of elemental magnesium. Anyway, I'd appreciate your input. Thanks.


Def. don't take 10 a day. :Smilie:  One is fine. Orotate is in fact one of the better forms (if not the best), I might switch from Citrate myself soon, still researching). But elemental is "usable", which is fairly even across the board. (probably except orotate). The mg content is in reference to total weight for said form, and elemental is a usable percentage of that weight.

----------


## armyranger516862006

Hey Austinite is it necessary for one to inject Vitamin B12? Or can you benefit from the pill form? Also is there anything else Vitamin or whatever that you inject sub q that's better off being injected? Thanks!!

----------


## austinite

> Hey Austinite is it necessary for one to inject Vitamin B12? Or can you benefit from the pill form? Also is there anything else Vitamin or whatever that you inject sub q that's better off being injected? Thanks!!


No, not nccessary. If you do not want to inject, I recommend sub-lingual drops/tablets in methylcobalamin form. 3000 to 5000 mcg daily. 

Everything is better in injectable form.

----------


## armyranger516862006

> No, not nccessary. If you do not want to inject, I recommend sub-lingual drops/tablets in methylcobalamin form. 3000 to 5000 mcg daily. 
> 
> Everything is better in injectable form.


That's what i thought. Okay a while back you gave me a site to go to and i just purchased in bulk of L Glutamine, L Arginine, L Citruline, D3, Zinc, B12, Vitamins A,C and Taurine in powder form, thanks for that. i don't suppose you could tell me where one could get the Injectable form of B12? thanks Aus!!

----------


## austinite

> That's what i thought. Okay a while back you gave me a site to go to and i just purchased in bulk of L Glutamine, L Arginine, L Citruline, D3, Zinc, B12, Vitamins A,C and Taurine in powder form, thanks for that. i don't suppose you could tell me where one could get the Injectable form of B12? thanks Aus!!


Not sure brother. Mine comes from my local pharmacy with a prescription. Google it. If the price is too good to be true, it's probably Cyanocobalamin labeled as Methyl.

----------


## armyranger516862006

> Not sure brother. Mine comes from my local pharmacy with a prescription. Google it. If the price is too good to be true, it's probably Cyanocobalamin labeled as Methyl.


Okay Thanks i will Google. I work at a hospital so i think ill ask a Nurse Practitioner and see if they would be willing to write a prescription. I mean it's just B12 so don't see a problem in doing that. Thanks for your advice Aus!!

----------


## armyranger516862006

Hey another question regarding Brands? I have some Spring Valley Vitamins and NOW Vitamins that i purchased a while back. Are they decent brands?

----------


## austinite

The following brands have my stamp of approval:


- LEF (Life Extension)
- NuMedica
- NOW Products
- Jarrow
- Xymogen
- BIO-TECH
- McPherson Labs
- Neuro Biologix

I don't know of any others.

----------


## basketballfan22

> Def. don't take 10 a day. One is fine. Orotate is in fact one of the better forms (if not the best), I might switch from Citrate myself soon, still researching). But elemental is "usable", which is fairly even across the board. (probably except orotate). The mg content is in reference to total weight for said form, and elemental is a usable percentage of that weight.


Yeah, from what I have read, orotate is the best and most absorbable form which is why I chose it. Thanks for the input like usual. Hope all is well. Talk to you later.

----------


## derekkpapa1

Austinite is there vitamins that would affect sleep
Say jus totals
Fish oil
Vitamin e
B12
any liver protections
And stuff for your fat loss protocol 
Thanks 
just have not been sleeping great lately and ruling things out

----------


## austinite

> Austinite is there vitamins that would affect sleep
> Say jus totals
> Fish oil
> Vitamin e
> B12
> any liver protections
> And stuff for your fat loss protocol 
> Thanks 
> just have not been sleeping great lately and ruling things out


Please rephrase. I don't understand what you said. What specific question do you have?

For sleep I use Magnesium, and if I still can't sleep I add Melatonin.

----------


## derekkpapa1

Will taking certain vitimans cause lack of sleep like say caffeine would-like say ones I mentioned above

----------


## austinite

> Will taking certain vitimans cause lack of sleep like say caffeine would-like say ones I mentioned above


No not really. There have been some studies but nothing concrete.

----------


## basketballfan22

I officially started this regimen and austinite's fat loss regimen today. I have so many bottles of supplements that I look like a damn drug store, lol. Just to give other members an idea, the total list (including the fat loss regimen) cost me about $600 for about two months worth of supplements (some will last a lot longer). While I'm sure it's possible to bring that down a little, I did a pretty comprehensive search to find the best deals while not sacrificing quality. That price includes tax, shipping, and injectable methylcobalamin. Anyway, you can be sure I will update my progress austinite. I'm pretty excited to see how it all works out.

----------


## austinite

> I officially started this regimen and austinite's fat loss regimen today. I have so many bottles of supplements that I look like a damn drug store, lol. Just to give other members an idea, the total list (including the fat loss regimen) cost me about $600 for about two months worth of supplements (some will last a lot longer). While I'm sure it's possible to bring that down a little, I did a pretty comprehensive search to find the best deals while not sacrificing quality. That price includes tax, shipping, and injectable methylcobalamin. Anyway, you can be sure I will update my progress austinite. I'm pretty excited to see how it all works out.


Congrats brother. Looking forward to updates from you!

----------


## basketballfan22

Well I already have a few questions. For the tadalafil, I am using AR-R 's product with the oral syringe. I am taking 0.1 mL pre-workout and 0.1 mL 12 hours later. When I suck it up, am I supposed to go until the tip of the plunger is at 0.1 mL or until the liquid is at 0.1 mL? It just doesn't seem like there is much if I go until the plunger goes to 0.1 mL.

The same question is applicable for the B12 injections. I injected 1 mL based on the plunger, not the actual liquid vitamin. Is that correct?

Thanks in advance.

----------


## f1nallyfr33

I will read this over and over again. Thank you for the info and personal exp. to go with it.

----------


## austinite

> Well I already have a few questions. For the tadalafil, I am using AR-R 's product with the oral syringe. I am taking 0.1 mL pre-workout and 0.1 mL 12 hours later. When I suck it up, am I supposed to go until the tip of the plunger is at 0.1 mL or until the liquid is at 0.1 mL? It just doesn't seem like there is much if I go until the plunger goes to 0.1 mL.
> 
> The same question is applicable for the B12 injections. I injected 1 mL based on the plunger, not the actual liquid vitamin. Is that correct?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Well, the liquid should be at your mark. And so should the bottom of the plunger. 

Bottom of plunger and liquid need to meet at your mark.

----------


## sambrown

This is really great post. I will keep following your post. Keep it up.

----------


## f1nallyfr33

Austin, I've read and read your post. Thanks again for all of the info. The one question I have is is there anything I can take you help with sleep other than Tylenol pm, prescription meds or melatonin. I see that you said magnesium can help and if that the only one at why dose would I need to take it if that the only one. 
Also, the b12 methyl, is the liquid form just as good or not as comparable. I am really having a hard time eating what I need to. I am REALLY looking into the b12.

----------


## austinite

> Austin, I've read and read your post. Thanks again for all of the info. The one question I have is is there anything I can take you help with sleep other than Tylenol pm, prescription meds or melatonin. I see that you said magnesium can help and if that the only one at why dose would I need to take it if that the only one. 
> Also, the b12 methyl, is the liquid form just as good or not as comparable. I am really having a hard time eating what I need to. I am REALLY looking into the b12.


Magnesium. Start at 400mg. Double it if it doesnt work. Get magnesium orotate is you can. If not, Magnesium Citrate.

Find out why you can't sleep. Don't depend on drugs for too long.

Liquid methyl drops are just fine. Not comparable to injectable though but they work.

----------


## f1nallyfr33

Thank one, last question. I've read the rules, not sure if it applies here. Can reputable brands and or stores be mentioned. Or at the very least places to stay away from. I'm going to start shopping today.

----------


## austinite

> Thank one, last question. I've read the rules, not sure if it applies here. Can reputable brands and or stores be mentioned. Or at the very least places to stay away from. I'm going to start shopping today.


Wrong section brother.

----------


## f1nallyfr33

> Wrong section brother.



I meant for the supplements. Not that I doubted you. It was more a conversation piece with my wife but I checked out the labels on my vitamin b bottle and the totals were tiny compared to your recommended doses. So it quite obvious that Walmart brand vitamins and minerals are no good. Hahaha. Would a health food store carry the supplements that you are talking about. Sorry for the lack of info I my question.

----------


## Rida5d

Hi austinite ..
I want to ask u about vitamin E.
Most of the dosages I see comes between 400-800 iu.
What's up with those crazy dosages? Looks like an over kill..
I noticed u taking 90 iu and seems I can't find anything near to ur dosage.
I'm supplementing with Fish oil by carlson as recommended and it has 10 iu within.. Is that enough? Can we take another 800 iu once a week?

Sorry if the question had been answered.. But it's a 28-page thread  :Smilie:

----------


## austinite

> Hi austinite ..
> I want to ask u about vitamin E.
> Most of the dosages I see comes between 400-800 iu.
> What's up with those crazy dosages? Looks like an over kill..
> I noticed u taking 90 iu and seems I can't find anything near to ur dosage.
> I'm supplementing with Fish oil by carlson as recommended and it has 10 iu within.. Is that enough? Can we take another 800 iu once a week?
> 
> Sorry if the question had been answered.. But it's a 28-page thread


90 IU mixed tocopherols is what you want to look for. If you can't find it, look for at least Gamma tocopherols as it is superior to Alpha. 

The idea of taking only 10 IU with carlson fish oils is that is is enough to protect the fatty acids. When you ingest fish oils without Vitamin E, most of it goes to waste because of the harsh environment it goes through. Vitamin E protects the essential acids and allows your body to utilize more of them. 

These protective quantities are not enough to aid in protecting you from free radicals like nitrogen dioxide or peroxynitrite for example. So you would need to take higher doses for protection against this. With respect to heart health, the 10 iu in Carlson fish oil is enough because it allows you to benefit from the Fatty acids, which is a staple in heart health. 

So to answer your question, yes. Take another 400 to 800 IU weekly (mixed tocopherols is possible) for added health. But if you want to minimize supplemental intake, just make sure you have E in your fish oils. 

Hope that helps buddy.

----------


## Rida5d

Ben a long time since I told you I love you so much.
Thank you so much.

----------


## Alirezo0o

Austinite, Your VASCULARITY protocol didn't work for me nor my friend. I don't recommend it to guys who have high blood pressure and suffer from stomachache. the stuff made me feel so tired before I start my workout. Taking any kind of pre workout supplements are way easier and more effective for both pump and vascular look than buying and taking all the stuff you mentioned in the protocol.

----------


## austinite

> Austinite, Your VASCULARITY protocol didn't work for me nor my friend. I don't recommend it to guys who have high blood pressure and suffer from stomachache. the stuff made me feel so tired before I start my workout. Taking any kind of pre workout supplements are way easier and more effective for both pump and vascular look than buying and taking all the stuff you mentioned in the protocol.


Sucks for you. But don't give recommendations when you're not sure what you're talking about, in fact, it will LOWER blood pressure. That's what nitric oxide does, it widens your veins...

Educate yourself heavily before you pitch something that doesn't make sense, please. What do you think is in your pre-workout supplements? Amino acids. Your post is silly, unreliable and misleading.

Edit: Looking at what little post history you have, you're obviously clueless (Mr. Animal Pak - you should know that stuff is a joke/garbage). I think you're making shit up for some odd reason.

----------


## -KJ-

Hey aus... 

I'm looking to start supplementing zinc, magnesium, and chromium.
At the minute, my choices are with chromium picolinate, magnesium glycinate and a decent form of zinc.

Can you reccomend any and at what doses? 

Appreciate it pal.

----------


## austinite

> Hey aus... 
> 
> I'm looking to start supplementing zinc, magnesium, and chromium.
> At the minute, my choices are with chromium picolinate, magnesium glycinate and a decent form of zinc.
> 
> Can you reccomend any and at what doses? 
> 
> Appreciate it pal.


For zinc I use a Zinc/copper mix. 50mg zinc in it. 

Magnesium is great at 400 mg before bed. and chromium is not really needed for maintaining better health, but 2-300 mcg daily should suffice.

----------


## -KJ-

> For zinc I use a Zinc/copper mix. 50mg zinc in it. Magnesium is great at 400 mg before bed. and chromium is not really needed for maintaining better health, but 2-300 mcg daily should suffice.


Do you know what brands are ok to go for? I'm finding it hard to get a decent zinc chelate. Was hoping for ortate or asparate?

Also what magnesium product do you take. Looked into now foods but have to see if I can get from Amazon. Cheers.

----------


## austinite

Orotate is best. I use powders only, I buy wholesale. What I use really wont help you because you can't get it unless you become a retailer. 

The following brands have my stamp of approval:

- LEF (Life Extension)
- NuMedica
- NOW Products
- Jarrow
- Xymogen
- BIO-TECH
- McPherson Labs
- Neuro Biologix

----------


## f1nallyfr33

> The following brands have my stamp of approval: - LEF (Life Extension) - NuMedica - NOW Products - Jarrow - Xymogen - BIO-TECH - McPherson Labs - Neuro Biologix



That's what I was looking for. Thank you. Guess he worded it better haha. I ordered some stuff from Puritan pride. B-12 from the lion. Magnesium really helped my wife with sleep and b-12 has increased my hunger. Thanks again for all the info. I will be finding the rest of your recommendations in time.

----------


## -KJ-

Hey Aus, couple of options here if you dont mind helping me out. Looking around these are the best options I have really and was wondering if they are worth it. Thus doing what they are meant to.

Zinc
NOW Zinc Picolinate - NOW Zinc Picolinate 50mg 120 Caps

Solgar Zinc Citrate - Solgar Zinc Citrate 30 mg Capsules at the health store.ie

Zinc Gluconate - Maximum Strength Zinc Tablets (25mg) | Holland and Barrett

Magnesium
NOW Magnesium Citrate - NOW Magnesium Citrate 120 caps

Magnesium Citrate - Magnesium Citrate (100mg) | Magnesium | Holland & Barrett

Along with these ill take 2mg of copper. Thanks Aus.

----------


## -KJ-

Ive also found a Solgar outlet that deals with solgar products. From what I know they are decent products and are not too expensive but you know more than me  :Smilie:

----------


## jwh7699

Do you see any benefits of taking the liquid L-Carnatine as a pre-workout? Thanks!!

----------


## austinite

> Do you see any benefits of taking the liquid L-Carnatine as a pre-workout? Thanks!!


Not for anything that would enhance training.

----------


## sanho

Finally i have read the 1121 comments  :Smilie: ..Thanks for your effort i have learned a lot.

i will buy this supplements :

DIM
magnesium citrate
zinc/copper
chromium
vit c
vit E
vit A
vit b6
vit b12
vit D3
l-arg
citruline
cystiene
lysine
methanionine
theanine
tryptophan
NAC
fish oil
l-carnitine
glutamine
BCAA
glucosamine
my questions :
1- i will run your vascularity stack ,should i drop or add Pycnogenol ?
2-what are the benefits of (ALpha lipoic acid,histidine,calcium,Phenylalanine) ,should i add them or they will be useless ?
3-using vit B complex injection is as good as B12 injection ?
4-is anything in this list useless ? should i add another supplement ??

Thanks in advance.

----------


## deltapapatango

That's a lot of supps. Best to try some at a time perhaps just incase of something not making you feel alright to start?

----------


## austinite

> Finally i have read the 1121 comments ..Thanks for your effort i have learned a lot.
> 
> i will buy this supplements :
> 
> DIM
> magnesium citrate
> zinc/copper
> chromium
> vit c
> ...


Looks good. 

1. Use pycnogenol if you feel you need it. If you're using the vascularity stack, you don't really need it. 

2. All the mentioned have benefits, but I don't use them. ALA and histidine are discussed already. No need for calcium unless you're defecient. Phenylalanine is basically Tyrosine. Skip it and use Tyrosine to avoid first conversion. 

3. Learn about B12 in this post...

4. I don't use BCAA's. Glucosamine is useless for most people, Magnesium should do the trick.

----------


## -KJ-

So from tomorrow I'll be supplementing with:

BCAAs
Vit C
Vit B12
Vit D3
Vit E

Chelated Zinc
Chelated Mag
Chromium 

Omega 3 Fish Oils

I just need to pick up a decent copper supp! 

Multi Vit is gone and after researching the vitamins and minerals are fat inferior to what I'll now be taking. 

Cheers Aus!

----------


## austinite

Looking good, KJ. Stay powerful!

----------


## -KJ-

> Looking good, KJ. Stay powerful!


Cheers Aus.

A question, I take 8-10g of fish oil a day in 4 separate servings, should I split the dose of vitamin e and take with each is with one meal ok?

----------


## austinite

> Cheers Aus.
> 
> A question, I take 8-10g of fish oil a day in 4 separate servings, should I split the dose of vitamin e and take with each is with one meal ok?


Absolutely. Fish Oils + Vitamin E. Always together.

----------


## dusto

Hey Austinite soon as I wake up I eat my breakfast and take 
Vit d
Krill oil 
Chromium 400mg
Green tea extract (egcg) 600mg
Synephrine 20mcg
Glucosamine 
All of this is a hour before I train then 1/2 hour before I hit the gym I take aminobolic by ultimate nutrition and my creatine and preworkout with nitric oxcide. 

Before I sleep I take 
Vitamin d 
Glucosamine 
Krill oil 
Multivitamin 
Tribulus 
Milk thistle 

Do you think I'm taking these in a good order? 
Also do you rate amino acid tablets from supplement companies that say they have a blend of the majority you've listed?

----------


## austinite

> Hey Austinite soon as I wake up I eat my breakfast and take 
> Vit d
> Krill oil 
> Chromium 400mg
> Green tea extract (egcg) 600mg
> Synephrine 20mcg
> Glucosamine 
> All of this is a hour before I train then 1/2 hour before I hit the gym I take aminobolic by ultimate nutrition and my creatine and preworkout with nitric oxcide. 
> 
> ...


Multivitamin, Tribulus, milk thistle and glucosamine are mostly a waste of money. 

Looks like you're talking the fat loss stack. Shouldnt be stacking anything with it, ever. 

I don't understand your last question, please rephrase.

----------


## dusto

> Multivitamin, Tribulus, milk thistle and glucosamine are mostly a waste of money. Looks like you're talking the fat loss stack. Shouldnt be stacking anything with it, ever. I don't understand your last question, please rephrase.


Ok I will stop taking anything with the fat loss protocol when I wake. Thanks

Sorry what I mean to say is do you think I should buy my amino acids separately from a more reputable company or do you think my amino blend tablets would be ok?

----------


## austinite

> Ok I will stop taking anything with the fat loss protocol when I wake. Thanks
> 
> Sorry what I mean to say is do you think I should buy my amino acids separately from a more reputable company or do you think my amino blend tablets would be ok?


Depends on the blend. I don't do blends, but I would doubt that anyone has ever made a blend in capsule or tablet form that is worthwhile.

----------


## dusto

> Depends on the blend. I don't do blends, but I would doubt that anyone has ever made a blend in capsule or tablet form that is worthwhile.


Ok thanks mate I'll start getting them separate

----------


## austinite

Good call, dusto. I know it's inconvenient but it certainly is the best method.

----------


## dusto

It's not to bad I have to order everything online anyway coz of where I live and I'm trying real hard to get my diet and supps dialed in so thanks for the advice bro. 
Hey who's the girl as your avatar all the time?

----------


## austinite

She's my mom.

----------


## dusto

Haha no way

----------


## dusto

I've seen her before on a few body building clips I'm just wondering her name? She's smoking hot

----------


## austinite

Like I said, she is my mom. Thanks for the compliment.

----------


## dusto

Aren't you 37?

----------


## austinite

Back on topic...

----------


## bigdippin

Dana Linn Bailey

Austinite - excellent writeup. Great info.

----------


## sanho

> Looks good. 
> 
> 1. Use pycnogenol if you feel you need it. If you're using the vascularity stack, you don't really need it. 
> 
> 2. All the mentioned have benefits, but I don't use them. ALA and histidine are discussed already. No need for calcium unless you're defecient. Phenylalanine is basically Tyrosine. Skip it and use Tyrosine to avoid first conversion. 
> 
> 
> 4. I don't use BCAA's. Glucosamine is useless for most people, Magnesium should do the trick.


i didn't find the discussion about the histidine , you meant Manganese instead of glucosamine or magnesium ?..i will try the stack and will give you my feedback , Thanks bro  :Smilie: .

----------


## Rida5d

Hi austinite, 
I'm sure this had been answered before but each time I reach to page 10 I loose my eyes  :Smilie:  aging  :Smilie: 
I'm having most of this list and had no issues in running it, but I started working out early in the morning. 
My suplements before hitting the gym are:
1- austinite fat loss protocol.
2- cialis 10 mg.
3- pre work out (old jack 3d)
4- l arginine .
Any problems in running those together at once ?
Shall I move any of those to the evening for example instead of morning? 
Thnx brother

----------


## austinite

> Hi austinite, 
> I'm sure this had been answered before but each time I reach to page 10 I loose my eyes  aging 
> I'm having most of this list and had no issues in running it, but I started working out early in the morning. 
> My suplements before hitting the gym are:
> 1- austinite fat loss protocol.
> 2- cialis 10 mg.
> 3- pre work out (old jack 3d)
> 4- l arginine .
> Any problems in running those together at once ?
> ...


Hey buddy. The only suggestion I have is to make sure nothing is taken 1 hour before, or 2 hours after my fat loss stack. Otherwise, you're good to go!

----------


## Rida5d

I Will do as adviced. Thnx a lot man.

----------


## devil-1986

currently on my cycle i'm taking vitamins an minerals plz advise on that :

morning after breakfast :
500 mg vitamin c
400 iu vitamin e
400 mcg fulic acid 
75 mg QOQ10
1000 mg fish oil
500 mg l-cystine
200 mcg chromium picolinate
450 mg green tea

after launch :
450 mg green tea
1000 mg fish oil
500 mg l-cystine

after dinner :
450 mg green tea
1000 mg fish oil
500 mg l-cystine
500 mg vitamin c
my question is , can chromium and green tea effect on my gains ? can cause geting gains more slowly ? whats your opinion about this while on cycle ? should i use it or shouldn't ?

----------


## devil-1986

.......................

----------


## Bigshotvictoria

Excellent post Austinite!!!

Have you ever looked into Rhodiola and Ashwagandha? I would go so far as to say that the combination of the two has saved my career. Next to healthy living they are the best for managing external stress IMHO.

----------


## austinite

> Excellent post Austinite!!!
> 
> Have you ever looked into Rhodiola and Ashwagandha? I would go so far as to say that the combination of the two has saved my career. Next to healthy living they are the best for managing external stress IMHO.


Yes, Rhodiola is okay, but so much better out there. Ashwagandha is worthless. Everyone's experience varies of course, good to hear it worked for you!

----------


## kelkel

> Excellent post Austinite!!!
> 
> *Rhodiola and* *Ashwagandha*


Isn't that where Eddie Murphy was from in "Coming to America?"

----------


## Little_John

Austinite I currently have a wishlist made from a health supplement wholesaler website and I would very much appreciate your opinion on what i could add or subtract. 

Caffine Anhydrous 250g \
synephrine HCL 99% 10g - Fat loss protocol
"already have some EGCG" /

N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine 250g
Agmatine Sulphate powder 250g
Citrulline Malate 2:1 (citral m) 250g
Acetyl L-Carnitine powder 250g
L-Arginine 500g
L-Glutamine 250g
L-Theanine 20g
melatonin powder 1g

CVS has buy one get one on vitamins near me so i plan on picking up all my vitamins and minerals "ones you stated in your write up" there. Thoughts? Opinions? Sláinte

----------


## psyBorg

I remember reading that taking vitamin supplements makes cancer patients die earlier than those who don't... Supposedly there is an optimal amount of antioxydant for the body and any more is harmful.
Ever read such articles/studies?

----------


## Little_John

Psy im no expert Austinite would be the one to know but i mean to much water will kill you so im sure that you can take to much vitamins but reaching death by either would seems like extreme amounts would be needed..

----------


## austinite

> I remember reading that taking vitamin supplements makes cancer patients die earlier than those who don't... Supposedly there is an optimal amount of antioxydant for the body and any more is harmful.
> Ever read such articles/studies?


Yes. I've read many studies, all of which, myself or someone else has debunked. It's nonsensical theatrics if you ask me.

----------


## Little_John

Austinite I’m not at a spot where I can financially afford to buy each vitamin separate I’m looking at getting the USANA essentials vitamin pack or the true nutrition whole food vitamin can you comment on it? Also I am ordering some powders you listed.

----------


## mxbrewski

That is a lot of supplements!

----------


## Imperator

Hi austinite

I am currently taking your vasco stack plus fat loss protocol. 

I combine the Fatloss stack with the pre workout Vasco stack. I also use a pre workout energy Called cellucor c4 at the same time. Is that okay?

----------


## jamin

Hey any advice on somthing other than cod liver oil.for my joints and bones they click and grind on most reps cheers in advance

----------


## gearbox

aust- you mentioned for vascularity there are some prescriptions from the doctor. Is there more then Cialis?
I have the basic and extensive amino acids and vitamins for vascularity. great thread by the way

----------


## gearbox

glucosamine, msm, chrondroitin (can find in a triple strength pill)
HGH
cissus_ I have heard from others on this but no personal experience with it.

----------


## gearbox

glucosamine, msm, chrondroitin (can find in a triple strength pill)
HGH
cissus_ I have heard from others on this but no personal experience with it.

----------


## krask028

Awesome read, as usual, Austinite. Perhaps you could do a write up on, or add in, curcumin. The stuff seriously works wonders for inflammation without any of the potential negative side effects from OTC NSAIDs. It's not as strong as any of the NSAIDs but the aspect of no stomach bleeding/ulcers is pretty awesome. It's also been touted to reduce estrogen levels, albeit I'm sure it's not by a huge amount and I haven't read many studies on it as I just take the curcumin for reduced pain/inflammation.

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## gearbox

> Awesome read, as usual, Austinite. Perhaps you could do a write up on, or add in, curcumin. The stuff seriously works wonders for inflammation without any of the potential negative side effects from OTC NSAIDs. It's not as strong as any of the NSAIDs but the aspect of no stomach bleeding/ulcers is pretty awesome. It's also been touted to reduce estrogen levels, albeit I'm sure it's not by a huge amount and I haven't read many studies on it as I just take the curcumin for reduced pain/inflammation.


suppose to help nitric oxide levels also  :Smilie: )

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## Chepre

Hi, very interesting to read.

General question:

- Is your sup profile and the mg values you wrote on the first side the dose, roid users should use, or benefit naturals with these sups and their amount the same way?

- Do u take all these sups the hole year? No matter if cutting, bulking, on/off cycling etc.

- Are these values a total? So, also vitamins, minerals etc. from food, whey, etc. included?

Greetings

Ps: Sry for my bad English : P

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## krask028

That is interesting, I did not know that. Hey, even more power to curcumin. I take it before and after working out to primarily help with joint health. This was in response to Gearbox's post, accidentally didn't reply with a quote.

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## gearbox

> Hi, very interesting to read.
> 
> General question:
> 
> - Is your sup profile and the mg values you wrote on the first side the dose, roid users should use, or benefit naturals with these sups and their amount the same way?
> 
> - Do u take all these sups the hole year? No matter if cutting, bulking, on/off cycling etc.
> 
> - Are these values a total? So, also vitamins, minerals etc. from food, whey, etc. included?
> ...


yes year around. cutting would be more important imo cause your lower on overall nutrients so aminos and mineral are more vital.

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## gearbox

> That is interesting, I did not know that. Hey, even more power to curcumin. I take it before and after working out to primarily help with joint health. This was in response to Gearbox's post, accidentally didn't reply with a quote.


reading more about curcumin being carcinogenic so I will search a bit more on this vitamin.

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## krask028

> reading more about curcumin being carcinogenic so I will search a bit more on this vitamin.


That is interesting as well, I'd further look into it. Curcumin is recommended to a lot of breast cancer patients, so it would seem odd that they would recommend something that is potentially cancer causing when it is used to help treat breast cancer in conjunction with other methods. However, even if it is carcinogenic, I believe the minute risks (if any) of developing cancer are outweighed by it's other benefits. In this day and age, just about everything seems to be at least mildly carcinogenic.

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## Chepre

Hi Austinie, quiet new to this Forum, and a Beginner regarding supplementing AAs, Vits, Minerals etc.

Reading on the first page your daily supp plan, I was wondering about some things.
Maybe you could Point it out for me, would appreciate it.

*1. Aren t there any important things missing?*

- Beta Alanin
- Vit B 1,2,3,5,11
-Iron (taking it together with Vit C + B6)
-Calcium
-Calium (Vit D3 supportin the calium Resorption very good)
-Chrome

*2. Some questions related to your list*

- Glutamin:
Wondering about your 1500 mg before bed. Always thought about 10 g each day to have significant effect/Regeneration.

- L Tyrosin:
Thought this effects only during a diaet as pre workout?

- L Carnitin:
Same, thought it is only necessary in a diat, why perma use it?

- Vit B6:
Would you consider 100 g as an absolut max value daily? Afaik ovedosing possible with B6.


- Aspirin:
Any risks to supplement it daily? Related to your blood? Which effects has Aspirin?

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## austinite

Rarely ever a need for calcium or iron. 

No problem supplementing aspirin daily. 

Everything else is answered in the thread my friend. Sorry, I've repeated myself one too many times  :Smilie:

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## gearbox

aust- you mentioned something about getting from a doc to help with vascularity. Is it something other than Cialis?

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## austinite

> aust- you mentioned something about getting from a doc to help with vascularity. Is it something other than Cialis?


You can get injectable amino acids and vitamins too. But I wouldnt bother with that much, mainly cialis.

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## armyranger516862006

Aus where is a good place to buy empty capsules? I am gonna be putting together Nolvadex , Clomid, Cialis and some others into there own capsule as I find it to be way cheaper to buy in Powder form. Thanks!

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## austinite

^ amazon. Anywhere really, empty caps are empty caps  :Smilie:

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## Chepre

After I ve read now all 30 sites, I would like show my profile to check please  :Smilie:  I m not a native speaker, but think most things I got so far  :Smilie: 

Would appreciate any comments from you Austinate regarding this profile and timing.

*I m 29, 174 cm tall, 73 kg, about 11 % BF. Training 4-5 Times a weak. Never used roids, and also at the moment not cycling yet.*

*Morning*

Aspirin 80 mg
Beta Alanin (only during diet, 4-5g)
Cialis 10mg 
Copper 2mg
CoQ 10 100 mg (together with fat?)
Fish Oil liquid: 5 ml
(5 ml have: Omega 3: EPA: 186 mg, DHA: 58 mg. Omega 6 :GLA 20mg, mixed tocopherole 9.6mg, Vit E (D alpha Tocopherol 1.92 mg)
L Arginin 1g
L Carnitin 3000 mg
L Citrulline 1g
Vit C 500 mg
Vit D3 4000 IU (together with fat?)
Zinc 50 mg


*PRE-WORKOUT:*

L-Citrulline Malate - 3 grams
L-Arginine (micronized) - 2 grams
L-Lysine - 2 grams
L-Methionine - 1 gram


*POST WORKOUT:*
Whey + Dextrose + Creatin (while bulking)
L-Cysteine - 1 to 2 grams (together with vitamin E?)
Vitamin C - 500 mg


*Before bed:*

NAC 600 mg
Magnesium Citrat 400 mg
L Tyrosine 3g (why you chose only 1g?)
Glutamin 10g (same here, why do u have only 1.5 g?)

Is the timing and mixture of these diff supps ok like this?
Maybe same important things you noticed, or something important stillt to add?
Was thinking to include GABA before Bed too, does it make sense?


*A lil bit OFFTOPIC:*

- I ve read in this thread, that you are not a fan of whey, and that most whey is useless/shit. But why, what do you mean exactly? And which brands of whey do u consider as "good"
- U also wrote, that most ppl are eating too much prots. What is too much for you? Wouldn t u consider 2.5-5g Prot each kg ?

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## austinite

I've answered the questions above,. Chepre, I can not longer repeat. But I'll answer what I think I havent. 

Please find where I said whey is useless shit, and quote me so I know exactly what I was referencing. I may have been referencing it with respect to _my_ diet. 

Protein (although this should be in the diet section), you don't need to feed your fat. So never calculate or multiply protein by total weight. That would mean that a man that weighs 200lbs at 30% BF would require the same amount of a man weighing 200lbs at 9% BF. Make sense?

So 1.2 to 1.5grams per lean body mass is plenty to build muscle.

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## Chepre

> Not really. Not sure I understand. I personally avoid protein powders at all costs. Nothing but garbage ingredients in well over 90% of them out there.


On page 27.

Anyway, probably u have answered already some of the stuff I wanted to know. But due the fact, I just learned english in school many years ago and live in Germany I did not get everything 100 %. Just wanted to get it checked for me personally, if I unterstood it correct, and if my timing and mixture of the supps I listed is right. Did not want you to blame or sth. and to repeat yourself the 100 time because I am just to lazy to read. I v read every single post here  :Wink: 

Ty anyway!

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## austinite

Page 27 doesnt mean anything buddy. please quote the exact phrase. Everyone has different settings for pages and posts per page.

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## Chepre

Ah did not know sry. Too stupid to Quote Multi. Anyway, the question was:

_Originally Posted by jwh7699 View Post:
Regarding Amino Acids. Wouldn't it be easier taking a protein powder with all of them in it? Thanks!!_

Your answer:



> Not really. Not sure I understand. I personally avoid protein powders at all costs. Nothing but garbage ingredients in well over 90% of them out there.



And my second question: Reading sometimes about risk of stomach bleeding related to taking perma Aspirin. Am I right, that 80 mg is much too low for concerning about this issue?

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## austinite

Garbage is in reference to sugar content and other ingredients/fillers that are commonly found in protein powders. 

use enteric aspirin.

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## Chepre

Ty for clarafication.

Two final questions:
1. When you write in ur profile "mornings" do u mean u take supps on empty belly or after breakfast?
2. Would you change the amount of certain vitamins (depending on the vegetables) if you f.e. eat every day 1 lbs vegetables?

Best Regards

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## austinite

^
1. Does not matter. 
2. No.

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## Chepre

Mhm, general question:

What would u answer is someone is asking: Why do you supplement all these things with that amount, do u have a medical deficiency on all of this?

How does it make sense, if you don't have a medical need on vits and minerals?

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## austinite

> Mhm, general question: What would u answer is someone is asking: Why do you supplement all these things with that amount, do u have a medical deficiency on all of this? How does it make sense, if you don't have a medical need on vits and minerals?


your question is answered on this thread. 

There are 3 stages of health states. Unhealthy, meaning you have a poor diet or medical condition. 

Healthy, meaning your diet is good and keeps you healthy and within range. 

Optimum, which is the state I look for where certain vitamins and minerals will take your body to an optimum level and utilize more of what you take. 

You don't have to supplement anything. Food alone is good enough to keep you healthy. But food can never ever take you to optimum levels. Take your b12 serum to 4000+ and you'll note the difference. The healthy range of 300 to 1100 is not good enough for me. 

Again, supplementing isn't for everyone.

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## austinite

*THIS THREAD IS NO LONGER SUPPORTED.* 

Thanks for all contributors and members that helped grow this thread. After over a year of support, I feel that all questions have been answered in great detail. If you read through the entire thread, you'll notice that the last 10 pages or so are repetitive. Same questions, same answers. There's only so many ways I can answer the same questions. 

I hope you make great use out of the info in this thread and keep in mind, your questions are more than likely to be already answered in this thread. If you need my assistance, please start a new thread and get my attention, I will do my best to respond in a timely fashion. 

Have a powerful day. 

~ _Austinite_

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## Lovemiami

I like all your post, Thanks

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## wellshii

Long thread to find somebodys answers.

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## Deal Me In

I know this post isn't supported anymore but I'm hoping someone has a link to the image in the first post that spells out the amounts of each supplement. The article comes up but the image doesn't show up on my end and without the amounts I'm a little lost. Can anyone post the original image for me? Thanks.

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## Mince pies

This may sound anecdotal but I read that even taking low dosages of NAC increases your chances of developing certain cancers by more than three fold.

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## austinite

> This may sound anecdotal but I read that even taking low dosages of NAC increases your chances of developing certain cancers by more than three fold.


Entirely far from the truth.

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## sanho

Does anyone have the link to the supplement chart image?? , the link is broken.

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## devil-1986

hi my friend  :Wink:  and what about using winstrol depot ? 1800 or 2400 mg ?

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## Sfla80

Aust. Not sure if you are still around. 

But have you seen these...I know u use NOW products for some things.

I haven't been using many supps but I was helping someone out and buying him a few things from now and came across this. 

Any thoughts?

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## PTROIDE

How many gr of Vitamin C it's needed to prevent NAC oxidize?

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## kelkel

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2129149/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11557312

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## PTROIDE

It's important what time of the day i take the NAC? I'm using a 17AA, and i'm taking 1200mg/day but the time of the day i dont know if i take when i wakeup or after traning, on empty stomach... what you guys do?

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## Rida5d

Hello Austinite ... long long time my friend... hope all is going well with u.... excuse my question if it was answered before , I didn’t go through the whole thread (father of two now  :Smilie:  ) ... I see you suggest supplementing with nac on daily basis on ur thread (supplements for those who don’t like much supplements) while u suggest taking nac 3 days a week on this thread .. can u elaborate plz .? 3 days weeks or daily ? Much appreciated the answer in advance .. respect

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## Rida5d

> Hello Austinite ... long long time my friend... hope all is going well with u.... excuse my question if it was answered before , I didn’t go through the whole thread (father of two now  ) ... I see you suggest supplementing with nac on daily basis on ur thread (supplements for those who don’t like much supplements) while u suggest taking nac 3 days a week on this thread .. can u elaborate plz .? 3 days weeks or daily ? Much appreciated the answer in advance .. respect


^^^  :Smilie:  


Welcome back Austinite

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## Obs

Last time I used any supplement like this on a regiment it was twinlab amino fuel liquid. $50 for 16 oz.

It worked great. Actually added mass. 
Now I just started to buy some again. Then I remembered that was 12 or 13 years ago. It probably had superdrol and m1t in it.

I was lucky I found that. No way I am sorting through all the shit supplements to find something worth anything. I will spend the extra $350 a month on food. Food is the supplement that always works.

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## PrimoCyp25

You rock brother, great info

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## lovbyts

Why is there almost no discussion about Amino acids the last few years? Yeah Ive searched.

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