# STEROIDS FORUM > HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY- Low T, Anti-Aging >  Thinking of pausing my testosterone injections for a while.

## killergoalie

I'm just about ready to throw in the towel and say F**K IT!! when it comes to continuing with my testosterone injections! Or at least putting them on pause for a while. :Frown: 

I've been on testosterone-cypionate for roughly 1.5 months, and I realize that it takes time to "feel" the change/improvement, but I didn't think I'd continue to feel like crap...no energy, lethargic, always tired, always want to sleep, depressed, moody etc for practically the entire time still!

I felt great after my first injection of 150mg in the middle of February, and that lasted about 4 days, but since then, I may as well injected the testosterone into the toilet!

Maybe my high estradiol levels have something to do with it, but if no Dr. will prescribe an A.I. to help lower it, why should I waste my money on the testosterone when it's obvious I'm not getting the full value/benefit from it?! And being in Canada, I'm not going to take the chance of ordering some from the U.S. or overseas, only to have Customs not allow it to enter the country, and NOT give my money back!

Maybe I'm just getting so F**KING frustrated of feeling like CRAP!!

It just pisses me off when a person wants to, and IS doing all that THEY can to get healthy, yet their DoctorS don't even seem to want to do the same! 

It's time that the majority of Drs. got their heads out of their A$$es, and entered the 21st century, and realized that there have been gains in medicine, and techniques since they finished medical school next to FRED FLINTSTONE!!

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## socalfun64

Dude, its not that much money to try and get what you need, and there are dozens of sites to get AI's, etc, including AR-R right here. Keep on trying Bro and with a little help from your friends, you can do it. I am only getting T from my Dr. and have to get everything else legal (vitamins, supplements, peptides, hormones) on my own, but to me it's worth it!!

I would bet it is high Estradiol that is still making you feel bad. IT will ruin any good the T could do. If one doesn't get through, some companies will retry for free....

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## killergoalie

Thanks for the reply, socalfun64! I appreciate the support. I know it isn't that expensive, and I'm doing the best I can on a very limited fixed income. I checked out the AR-R site, but as I mentioned in my post, being in Canada, I don't know if CUSTOMS would allow it into the country, or if they'd even consider it a "banned" substance. I've looked at many sites here in Canada to get an A.I. (Arimidex /anastrozole) but you seem to need a prescription for all of them.

I probably won't give up, but I'm getting very frustrated!

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## zaggahamma

Yannick

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## killergoalie

> Yannick


????

Sorry, I thought this was also a place where we could express our frustrations. If I was out of line, I apologize.

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## GFA

Did you get follow up blood work to see where your levels are?

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## killergoalie

My last BW was about 1 week ago, my E2 level was 174 from a range of < 156 (They don't offer the sensitive assay for males Estradiol test in Canada), and my Total Testosterone was 334 from a range of 241 - 827. I couldn't afford the bioavailable testosterone test.

Will be going for more BW on Tuesday when the labs reopen after the Easter Long Weekend Holiday.

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## socalfun64

> My last BW was about 1 week ago, my E2 level was 174 from a range of < 156 (They don't offer the sensitive assay for males Estradiol test in Canada), and my Total Testosterone was 334 from a range of 241 - 827. I couldn't afford the bioavailable testosterone test.
> 
> Will be going for more BW on Tuesday when the labs reopen after the Easter Long Weekend Holiday.


No wonder you feel lousy. With that high of Estrogen and that low of Test, I imagine you feel pretty crappy. No Libido, maybe even emotional. 

You just need to get the Estrogen way down and get the Test way up into the top of the range. You def. need to use an AI for a couple weeks to get it down...

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## killergoalie

Thanks again, socal! Actually the funny thing is, my libido isn't actually too bad LOL Not as strong as it used to be, but not totally gone either. (Your avatar pic helps it a lot haha BTW she has a really cute face. ) But yeah, I'm trying to find some way to get an A.I. locally. Even if I have to personally go to every Doctor that I can until I find one who is willing to write me a prescription for anastrozole.

I'm considering increasing my test injections to 60mg twice a week from 50 mg twice a week, but again, I don't want to waste the testosterone if my E2 levels are going to remain as high as they are. I've had 2 injections of 150mg (3 weeks apart), then 10 days later, an injection of 100mg, then 6 days after that, an injection of 50mg, then 3.5 days after that one, another one of 50 mg. (All using testosterone-cypionate in a strength of 100MG/ML) So I'm thinking that my total test level should be higher than it is buy now. Of course I started with a total testosterone level of 40.3!!

Anyway, I'll keep plugging along, and trying to figure this all out.

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## Rockstar18

Where in Canada you from bro?

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## killergoalie

Vancouver, B.C....you?

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## HRTstudent

what kind of TRT dosing protocol is that? looks senseless.

your total testosterone level is crap still. 

what I'm seeing is that you've been on for only 6 weeks and on a crazy dosing schedule. your results are predictable. switch to weekly injects of the same amount. don't change your dose every week. do this for 4 weeks before you throw in the towel _or make any changes._

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## killergoalie

Thanks, HRT student. Yeah, I think I will stick with the 50mg dosage every 3.5 days for at least a month, to see how that does. I just wish I'd feel a little "jolt" of energy from it at least.

The early dosing protocol was via Dr.s directions. At least my endo agreed to allow me to inject every 3.5 days.

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## keep fightin

Canadians! help Killer out.. somebody must have experience with overseas pharms for AI, I'm getting emotional reading this thread and my E is good. HRT student is right Killer, get consistent with the T and hopefully we can come up with an answer for your med issue, keep us posted bro..

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## killergoalie

Thanks kf! Oh don't worry, I'm not giving up. I'm just feeling a bit depressed today. (More than usual LOL) I might have a local source (nudge nudge wink wink) for an A.I. so we'll see how that pans out. 

I really like the every 3.5 day injection protocol (SubQ) so I think I'm going to stick with that, even though I don't feel any "buzz" like I did from my very first injection. Of course the dosage is much less, and the first one really boosted my test levels (from 40.3 to 311).

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## keep fightin

We are pulling for you Killer! local source sounds intriguing..

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## killergoalie

Thanks everyone for all your support, and ideas! I really do appreciate them all!

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## lovbyts

Were you doing injections ever 3.5 days when you were tested and had High E2 and low Test? Dont just bump up your Test becasue more than likely it will raise your E2 also. I would consider doing injections 3x a week SbuQ to normalize your levels even more and hopefully get the E2 lower.

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## wmaousley

Sounds like "mini" pause  :Smilie:

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## killergoalie

> Were you doing injections ever 3.5 days when you were tested and had High E2 and low Test? Dont just bump up your Test becasue more than likely it will raise your E2 also. I would consider doing injections 3x a week SbuQ to normalize your levels even more and hopefully get the E2 lower.


Actually no, my latest BW that included an E2 test was after 3 injections ([email protected] 150mg, and [email protected] 100mg, all IM over 5 weeks). My Dr. won't give me a requisition for another Estradiol test for at least another month.

I don't think I will bump up my test because as you mentioned, it will likely raise my E2 up anyway, so why waste it?! Although if I raise the frequency of my injections to 3 x per week, instead of 2 @ 50mg every 3.5 days, I might change it to [email protected] 35 or 40mg every 56 hours. Not sure if I'd feel ANY effect whatsoever from injections of only 35mg but if it helps lower my E2 levels, than I guess it will have been a success. 

I just want to feel SOMETHING from this besides lethargy, and frustration!

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## lovbyts

Yes that's what I mean, do it 3x @ 35 not at 50mg. Interesting enough the 150mg per week is not very much. Most people are right around 200mg per week + or - a little. I'm at 175mg - 200mg week. 

Are you taking and HCG ? This is becoming pretty standard for a lot of people to use HCG while on TRT. There are a lot of people claim not only helping the balls stay active it helps the Test levels and keep everything a little more stable while giving maybe people that GOOD feeling they were missing.

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## PetrX

Keeping a positive outlook helps a lot ..believe me

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## killergoalie

> Keeping a positive outlook helps a lot ..believe me


Thanks PetrX...trust me I'm doing my best to do just that! My parents always taught me..."Never say Die, God hates a coward!" and I try my best to abide by that.

I've always been a fighter, and to be honest, I've usually always had to do most things on my own (being single and all LOL) so this is just another speed bump on the road of life for me to overcome.

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## lovbyts

I hear you but it would be nice if there were not so many speed bumps once i a while. They keep wearing out my shocks and I get tired of all the bouncing myself. I keep saying I would LOVE to just coast for a while but it never seems to happen.

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## killergoalie

> I hear you but it would be nice if there were not so many speed bumps once i a while. They keep wearing out my shocks and I get tired of all the bouncing myself. I keep saying I would LOVE to just coast for a while but it never seems to happen.


Amen to that brother!! As much as I LOVE rollercoasters, as you so wisely said, it would be nice to put it in cruise control for a while, and just sit back and enjoy the ride on a nice, smooth, unbumpy road. lol

As far as taking an hcg right now, my Endo doesn't want me to put too many eggs into the basket at this time. He wants to get my test levels up to a nice, stable level, then as he puts it, we'll worry/think about additional steps. He also said that hcg is VERY expensive, and he knows I'm on a very limited fixed income. But if this feeling of lethargy continues for much longer, I may have to almost insist on hcg. OR at least a prescription for an A.I. (if my "source" doesn't come through).

Still unsure if I'd do [email protected] 35, [email protected] 40, or [email protected] 50 per week for the test. If it matters, I'm using 100MG/ML strength testosterone -cypionate , 1'm 52 years old, a type 2 diabetic, and yes obese at 330 lbs. (But my blood sugar levels are good, and have lost over 20 lbs. since January of this year.) if all that has any bearing on how much I should use.

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## lovbyts

Well I guess it is all blood test dependent at this point. The high body fat is probably what is contributing the the high E2 but I would still think you would be on at least 150mg of test a week and injecting SubQ ex a week may help with the E2. I'm sure you will need to get the high body fat under control before you really start to feel GOOD and it may cure you diabetes. 

Have you visited the diet section? Making a simple change like eating 6x a day instead of the standard 3x can help you a lot, it did me. I dropped over 50 lbs by basically only changing how often I ate but also ate more healthier and had a lot less craving for junk because I was never hungry.

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## DGK

I just started my therapy and they have me on 200 mg of test cyp every 2 weeks, ik thats low but they want to see what it does and get it dialed in blood tests in 2 weeks to see.. i have a strong feeling they will not see much of an increase in my levels. I started with total test levels of 220.. thats the test of a 80 yr old

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## killergoalie

Funny thing is, my diet is actually very clean. Lots of lean protein, fibrous veggies, fresh fruits, very limited carbs and I esp limit starches. No "white" starches, no pasta of any type, the only real "heavy" carbs I eat are yams, parboiled rice on occasion (it's actually better for diabetics than brown rice), and once in a while some quinoa. 

I eat 5-6 small meals a day as often as I can, and although once in a while I do have a "cheat" day, I actually feel worse when I do not eat "healthy". But I know I must be doing something wrong. I think it's the lack of exercise, and I WANT to exercise, but I just don't have the energy, or "frame of mind" to.

Maybe I was expecting too much from the test shots. I kept reading how people who were diagnosed with low testosterone suddenly went on TRT, had a few injections, and all of a sudden felt 25 again! They were full of piss and vinegar! Recharged, re-energized etc! Even an old gym buddy had the same lethargic issues that I had, was diagnosed with low T. had a few injections, and he felt like a new man! Of course he was already nice and fit, and slim, so yeah I guess my body fat has a lot to do with how I'm feeling.

But if I don't have the energy to workout, how am I going to lose the weight fast enough to help get my E2 levels down? That's what I keep telling my Drs. but it doesn't seem to sink into their thick skulls. This is what's pissing me off!! So sometimes I'm ALMOST at the point where I ALMOST want to say F**K IT!! Why bother?!! But no, for some reason, I'll keep trying! Maybe it's determination, maybe it's how I was brought up to never say die, or maybe it's just plain stupidity, and I'm just too freakin stupid, and dumb to know when to quit! Or maybe it's so I can show everyone who DIDN'T do anything to try and help me, even though I asked them to, that I DID IT...ON MY OWN, without their help, and then they can all KISS MY A$$!!

I used to go to the gym 6 days a week...3 cardio (H.I.I.T. or Tabata usually), and 3 days of weights...squats, deadlifts, bench press, rows etc. but about 1 year ago I just didn't have the energy/motivation whatever to continue. I loved going, went to the gym steady for over 3 years, and my diabetes Dr. even told me I was about 10 lbs away from being able to go off my diabetes medication, but a "voice" inside me TOLD me that I was going to sabotage myself, and ever since then things just imploded. I had no desire to go to the gym, I even changed gyms to see if that would give me some sort of "new life", but no.

Well starting in less than 6 hours, I'll start on 3 x per week injections and just see if that makes any difference to how I feel. I'll also try and fight through the lethargy and even if I have to literally FORCE myself to workout, I will. Somehow!

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## killergoalie

> I just started my therapy and they have me on 200 mg of test cyp every 2 weeks, ik thats low but they want to see what it does and get it dialed in blood tests in 2 weeks to see.. i have a strong feeling they will not see much of an increase in my levels. I started with total test levels of 220.. thats the test of a 80 yr old


Best of luck to you DGK!!

I started with a total test level of 40.3! Or in nmol/L a level of 1.4 from a range of 8.4 - 28.7 nmol/L! My Dr. said it was the LOWEST level she had ever seen, or even heard of!

Anyway, time for me to hit the sack! I want to be up in less than 5.5 hrs to take my first injection on my new 3x per week protocol. Sunday 7 A.M. Tuesday 3 P.M. then Thursday @ 11 P.M. So whatever will be will be. 

Thanks again for all the incredible help, support, and advice everyone! Very much appreciated!

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## lovbyts

How long have you been on the diet as you mentioned? Remember it probably took a long time to put the weight on and it will take quite a while to take it off. Also since you are working out dont pay as much attention to the scale as you normally would because adding muscle adds weight. 

It sounds like you are doing the right things so just keep doing it, before you know it the pounds will start melting away.

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## killergoalie

I've been on my current diet/eating plan for roughly a little over a year. Sure I've wavered now and then, but basically it's stayed pretty much the same. I did feel quite a bit better when I was working out, which is why I want to regain the energy and focus to do so once again. I LOVED going to the gym, and even working out at home! But now, all I want to do is sleep!

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## GFA

Keep at it and kill it in the gym. Like others said your weight is most likely contributing to the aromitization of T to E. 

Eating clean and eating at a calorie deficit are 2 entirely different things, you can eat clean all day but if you eat at a large calorie surplus you are going to gain weight. 

Stay at a calorie deficit and workout, you will melt the fat off. At 300+ lbs, moderate deficit and exercise, you can lose a TON of weight for the first few months.

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## GFA

> I just started my therapy and they have me on 200 mg of test cyp every 2 weeks, ik thats low but they want to see what it does and get it dialed in blood tests in 2 weeks to see.. i have a strong feeling they will not see much of an increase in my levels. I started with total test levels of 220.. thats the test of a 80 yr old


My test was 86 ng/dl pre TRT treatment (6 weeks ago). I am on 100mg a week and now its over 1000. 200mg every 2 weeks is a good starting point but the frequency should be increased.

Everyone is different and will react differently. I am 41, ~200 lbs now and I go to the gym regularly (4+ times a week). I dropped around 3 " off my waist so far in those past 6 weeks. Looking to drop another 4" off the waist. Dont really care about weight at this point but the waist size. 

Id rather be 200 lbs with a 34" waist than 190 with 36" waist. Although I am only 5'10 so realistically I need to drop another 20+ lbs  :Smilie:

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## killergoalie

Thanks, GFA, I'll do my best to try that. The only thing is though, and I'm not trying to make an excuse, just state a fact, I just wish I could get the energy to actually get up and GO to the gym/workout (I even have a pretty good home gym). That seems to be the main issue. I WANT to work out, but more often than not all I ever FEEL like doing is going to sleep. I'm constantly yawning, yet half the time when I'm in bed, I can't sleep! I honestly thought that the increase in testosterone would be the "boost" I need to give me the energy TO go to the gym, or workout at home! And yeah, the first shot did just that, but after 4 days, I was back to feeling like before...tired, lethargic, depressed, moody...

I agree that my weight is most likely contributing to the aromatization of T to E, which I've even told my Drs. this, but in a pure catch-22 situation, it's this same exact abundance of E that is likely the culprit that is making me feel so lethargic that I don't have the energy to work out, therefore it makes it hard to lose the weight. Which is why I practically BEGGED them to give me a prescription for an A.I. so it would help lower my E2 level, which would then in all likelihood allow me to have the energy to workout, which would then allow me to begin to lose more weight.

I will begin to eat at a more caloric deficit, which I know is going to be a challenge since I do tend to eat a fair amount (although still clean) when I am depressed.

But I will try and push through this feeling of wanting to constantly sleep, yawn, and sleep some more (even though I actually get very little actual sleep), and FORCE myself to eat less, and exercise more! Because I honestly do hate feeling like this!!

Maybe I'm also just thinking TOO MUCH about all this, and just adding unnecessary stress to my already overflowing plate. I thought injecting more frequently would give me some sort of increased energy, but it doesn't even give me a little "kick in the pants" at the time of the injection, let alone extend for a day or two. Of course I've only been on the twice a week protocol for one week, so I suppose I should give it more time, and starting this morning, I'm going to go to three times a week injections, to see how that works.

I realize I'm probably too much in a hurry, but after feeling like crap basically for nearly a year and a half to two years, I want results NOW!! Drive or get off the road! I ain't no damn little old lady who likes to lollygag! I am NOT impatient...I just hate to wait!! Life is too short! Time waits for no one!

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## GFA

Everyone can make excuses. I have 2 young kids, one is 16 months old and doesnt sleep through the night. I still manage to get up at 5am during the week and hit the gym. Thats right 5am, while the wife and kids are still asleep, I go to the gym. 

I am tired, I am exhausted, I work tons of hours, I have lots of stress but I want to get into great shape to be around for a long time for my kids and also so I can take my shirt off at the beach this summer and not be one of those fat dads  :Smilie: 

At your weight, just cut back your calorie intake and you will melt the fat away. You dont even have to go to the gym that much, just a calorie deficit from diet will work. Lift a few times a week to maintain your muscle, do cardio IF you want to speed up the process, calorie deficit is where its at. You accomplish that in 2 ways, diet and exercise. Diet being the easier physically but not mentally. 

The only thing stopping you is you.

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## killergoalie

Thanks GFA! Funny you should mention getting up at 5 A.M. to go to the gym, because when I was going 6 days a week, that's exactly the time I used to get up to do so. LOL It was great getting it out of the way, and it gave me energy all day!

Great job also on your part on your progress!! Keep it up!! You will reach your goals!!

I'll work on the calorie deficit program, and hopefully see some results sooner rather than later.

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## killergoalie

Well just finished my first of what is now going to be my regular injection protocol for at least the next 2 months (Depending of course on Blood Work, and how I feel, but I will be patient, and allow my body to adapt to this protocol) which is 40mg 3 x per week. (Sundays @ 7 A.M., Tuesdays @ 3 P.M., and Thursdays @ 11 P.M.) SubQ into my belly fat.

Also as I mentioned above, I will begin to eat at more of a caloric deficit, and do my utmost to push/force myself to workout! Hope this works!

Once again, I wish to thank everyone for all their wonderful support, help, suggestions, and advice! It truly is all very much appreciated!

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## manonfire

Killer, I am in the same boat I had my first injection of 200 mg and I felt great after 4 days. Took a 100 mg dose the next week and I feel the same as I did when I started what happened? Maybe I also expected too much from this shot. I feel I may have made a mistake by taking the first one and feeling young again. I am a 45 year old male that has lifted since I was 18 I fell out due to energy levels being low. I still do cardio and still hit the weights 4-5 times a week. I follow a strick diet of protein low carbs and low fat so I am sure it is not my diet! I feel so helpless and I dont know what to think either keep us posted.. glad I am not the only one in this boat.

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## killergoalie

Hey mononfire, I feel your frustration! Hopefully we can conquer this with the help of everyone here, and just doing our best to overcome it! I'm seriously going to adjust my diet, increase my activity level, and see what happens.

Best of luck to you!!

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## manonfire

Same to you killer... I really want to see all the gains in my mood energy sex drive that I can! Hang in there

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## killergoalie

Thanks mano...ditto for me on what I want to see/achieve.

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## DGK

What you felt after the first injection was most likely a placebo effect manonfire. Although test cyp has a short half life, it will take a few weeks for you to fully feel the effects. im actually taking my next injection a few days early so when i go in for my 4 week blood test my levels are lower then they should be based upon their schedule. So they will hopefully do 1 of 2 things. Either raise my bi weekly dose, or keep my dose the same but provide me with a script for weekly injections at the same 200 mg dose.

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## manonfire

I was planning to stop a week prior to my blood test so hopefully my levels will be low so I can get an higher dose... As for the pacebo effect??? Not to sure that was what it was

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## killergoalie

Well I'm finally feeling a bit better!


After my initial injection approx 7 weeks ago of 150mg of Testosterone -Cypionate (at a Total Testosterone level of 40.3 ng/dl) which produced a great "buzz" for about 4 days, nothing has been able to reproduce that level of euphoria. Not my next injection of 150mg which was 3 weeks later, not my next injection of 100mg which was 11 days after that, not even two injections of 50mg which were 3.5 days apart...the first being 6 days from the 100mg injection.

However, this week, I decided to try 3 SubQ injections per week @ 40mg per injection...each one 56 hours apart. The first one was Sunday Morning @ 7:00 A.M. the second one was yesterday (Tuesday afternoon @ 3:00 P.M.) and the next will be tomorrow (Thursday night @ 11:00 P.M.).
After both Sunday's and Yesterday's injections, I feel incredible!! Almost the same "buzz" or euphoric feeling that I had after my first 150mg Injection! I have much more energy, more alertness, less fatigue, more libido etc.

The first 3 injections were all IM, the next 4 were SubQ...which I will continue doing.

I hope this effect doesn't wear off cause it feels great!

I've read a few other reports where users of the 3 x per week @ 40mg test-cyp each time SubQ also had great results. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but I just thought I'd pass it on.

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## keep fightin

hey Killer , good stuff, thinking about the 3x as well, Bass and GD are I believe using this protocol right now, glad your feeling like Tony the tiger!

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## killergoalie

Thanks, KF! Just hope this feeling lasts, and hopefully I'll feel even better once my E2 levels go down somewhat. *knocks on wood.

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## GFA

Let us know how your next BW turns up @40mg 3x a week SC. Really interested in hearing it.

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## killergoalie

> Let us know how your next BW turns up @40mg 3x a week SC. Really interested in hearing it.


Will do. I'm actually planning on having some BW done this morning, which will be after 2 40mg SC injections. (My Endo gave me requisitions to get BW twice a week for 8 weeks if I want.) Haven't had any BW since April, 03, 2012, so I'm curious. 

I will have had 3 SC injections between BW...50mg @ 8:00 P.M. on Wed Apr 04, 40mg @ 7:00 A.M. on Sun Apr 08, and 40 mg @ 3:00 P.M. on Tues Apr 10th, so it should give me a fair idea of things. Esp with the BW being taken 2 days after my last injection. I'm anxious to see the effects on my BW myself.

I will of course get more BW done next week after my 3rd injection of 40mg. (I might get BW done on Saturday morning which will be approx 32 hours after my 3rd injection of 40mg)

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## Vettester

Sorry KG, I'm just not buying this "sweet spot" stuff because you elected to try 3x/wk via Sub Q. I think there's other variables involved, including the obesity and diabetes that you've spoke about. To boot, the gap between your injections has been all over the place. I agree with DGK that you were probably feeling some sort of placebo, as it does indeed take many weeks to workup. Just saying ... If you took 2 injections and felt none of the so called euphoria, how would 3x make the difference between night and day? Maybe your serum levels are just now starting to stabilize now that you've been medicating a little more frequently than the initial injections where you waited 3 weeks, then 11 days, ...

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## zaggahamma

thowing in towel to sweet spot in 5 days  :Smilie: 

priceless

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## bass

> hey Killer , good stuff, thinking about the 3x as well, Bass and GD are I believe using this protocol right now, glad your feeling like Tony the tiger!


not sure what GD's protocol is now, but mine been eod test/hCG no AI, one day test and the next hCG, and never felt better since i got on TRT.

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## killergoalie

@Vetteman, and jpkman. Thanks for your feedback. I can understand your skepticism, and I don't blame you. I realize now that it's probably a placebo effect or some other reason behind my "euphoric" feeling, but whatever it is, at least I'm feeling better than I was! Can't you at least let me enjoy it? Sheesh!!

Maybe "sweet spot" was/is the wrong term to use but let a guy feel good whatever the reason is instead of bashing him, and making fun of him for getting excited, and being happy that he feels good. Thanks alot for the buzzkill!

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## Vettester

KG, coming from me, there was no intended bashing. Apologies if you perceived that I was trying to take the wind out of your sails, as that was not my intention.

It's just that I feel there's sometimes too much emphasis taken sometimes with people thinking that if you pin precisely at 3 certain times throughout the week, and take your AI precisely at a certain time, then optimal well being will be achieved. Testosterone levels are always in a constant state of fluctuation, and will rise and drop throughout the day for various reasons. I pin 2x week ... Honestly, I see very little difference doing it twice as opposed to 1x, maybe a little, BUT nothing that makes it night and day. 

I think the balance game depends on so many other variables. When talking hormones, the obvious E2 comes into play, as does free and bio test, which leads a patient to understand their SHBG levels. Throw in cortisol and thyroid levels, then you have something to think about. Even just having a thyroid condition can cause a person to feel like crap, and that has no dependency on where a patient is at on total testosterone serum ... Could be high, low, in the middle ... Don't matter.

Again, apologies if you take anything I say as a "buzz kill." It's just that I don't view testosterone as the "Be all, fix all." It is only one component. It's an important component, but still just one of many upon many when looking at the full spectrum.

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## killergoalie

Hey Vetteman, apology accepted, although none was really necessary, as I probably over reacted. No hard feelings I hope.

I understand fully what you're saying in that testosterone IS just one factor in an array of many.

I guess I was just happy to finally feel something other than lethargy, depression, and tiredness that I just naturally attributed it to the only "change" I had made, which was the frequency of my injections.

Since my total T levels always seem to be higher than 10.0 nmol/L lately, my Medical plan won't pay for a bioavailable testosterone test (which includes SHBG), and I don't have $75 to spare to pay for it myself. Likewise my Drs. won't request an Estradiol test for at least another 3-4 weeks, so I'll only be able to find out my total testosterone levels on a weekly basis.

Perhaps the fact that my Total T. level was so low when I started this whole journey 7 weeks or so ago, and as you so eloquently put it, maybe my levels are FINALLY reaching some level of consistency, or stabilization, and that's most likely what I am feeling. 

Whatever the reason, I hope it lasts, and even gets better.

Now if I could only find a local Dr. to prescribe me some Anastrozole, I should really be able to get the show on the road. I'm even considering some OTC supplements such as DIM, I-3-C, Calcium D-Glucarate etc. Just to help lower my Estrogen levels. I want to get the show on the road!!

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## killergoalie

Well I just received my limited BW results. All they could give me was my Total Testosterone level. So far this has been my best reading yet.

Total testosterone: 16.8 nmol/L from a range of 8.4 - 28.7 nmol/L.

Converted using the exact same conversion factor as always...Total test: 484.1 ng/dl from a range of 242 - 827 ng/dl. 

So it's not optimum by any means, but it's getting better.

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## killergoalie

Just got my latest BW results...again all my Medical Plan would pay for is Total Testosterone , even though the lab request was for BioAvailable Test. But it's better than nothing.

When I started TRT in the middle of February, my total testosterone was 40.3 ng/dl. From a range of 242 - 827 ng/dl.

I've been on SubQ injections @ 40mg of Test-Cyp, 3x per week for the past 2 weeks, (Last injection was @ 3 P.M. yesterday), and my latest BW revealed a total testosterone level of 611 ng/dl. From the same range of 242 - 827 so it's gone up nicely.

They listed the levels in nmol/L so my result was a Total Testosterone level of 21.2 nmol/L from a range of 8.4 - 28.7 nmol/L.

All I need now is to lower my E2 level!

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## freshmaker

> Just got my latest BW results...again all my Medical Plan would pay for is Total Testosterone , even though the lab request was for BioAvailable Test. But it's better than nothing.
> 
> When I started TRT in the middle of February, my total testosterone was 40.3 ng/dl. From a range of 242 - 827 ng/dl.
> 
> I've been on SubQ injections @ 40mg of Test-Cyp, 3x per week for the past 2 weeks, (Last injection was @ 3 P.M. yesterday), and my latest BW revealed a total testosterone level of 611 ng/dl. From the same range of 242 - 827 so it's gone up nicely.
> 
> They listed the levels in nmol/L so my result was a Total Testosterone level of 21.2 nmol/L from a range of 8.4 - 28.7 nmol/L.
> 
> All I need now is to lower my E2 level!


Are you still feeling as good as you were a week ago? Buzzed? Euphoric? 

Congrats on your great results.

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## freshmaker

> Just got my latest BW results...again all my Medical Plan would pay for is Total Testosterone , even though the lab request was for BioAvailable Test. But it's better than nothing.
> 
> When I started TRT in the middle of February, my total testosterone was 40.3 ng/dl. From a range of 242 - 827 ng/dl.
> 
> I've been on SubQ injections @ 40mg of Test-Cyp, 3x per week for the past 2 weeks, (Last injection was @ 3 P.M. yesterday), and my latest BW revealed a total testosterone level of 611 ng/dl. From the same range of 242 - 827 so it's gone up nicely.
> 
> They listed the levels in nmol/L so my result was a Total Testosterone level of 21.2 nmol/L from a range of 8.4 - 28.7 nmol/L.
> 
> All I need now is to lower my E2 level!


Are you still feeling as good as you were a week ago? Buzzed? Euphoric? 

Congrats on your great results.

Oh, and when was your blood work taken?

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## killergoalie

> Are you still feeling as good as you were a week ago? Buzzed? Euphoric? 
> 
> Congrats on your great results.
> 
> Oh, and when was your blood work taken?


Not feeling as Euphoric or as "Buzzed" as I was a week ago...probably due to still elevated E2 levels. (Will have those tested in a week or so), but feeling better than I did before I started TRT. Need to get my energy levels up so I feel like working out again. But I think I'm slowly getting onto the "good" side of the equation. *knocks on wood.

My blood Work was taken at 9:15 this morning.

Thanks for the congrats.  :Big Grin:

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## keep fightin

go get em killer! cool to have so much initial BW even if limited, really good stuff, if your veins don't collapse keep throwing that BW up! very interesting read. Your "new normal" is going to be great..

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## killergoalie

> go get em killer! cool to have so much initial BW even if limited, really good stuff, if your veins don't collapse keep throwing that BW up! very interesting read. Your "new normal" is going to be great..


Thanks KF! Being a type 2 diabetic, I'm so used to having blood drawn. (I think I'll ask for a reserved parking spot at the lab I always go to...along with my own private chair in the lab itself. lol) I don't even feel the needle going in, at times I even have to ask when they're going to start, and they've already finished. 

I guess now I have to decide what I'd like my "new normal" total testosterone level to be.

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## killergoalie

I went to see the Dr. at the walk-in clinic I went to a few weeks ago to get a requisition for an Estradiol test, and to check my red blood cell count, today, and he actually gave me a requisition to have NINE tests done...

Hematology Panel

Ferritin

Random Glucose

Alkaline Phosphatase (ALP)

Alanine Transference (ALT)

Thyroid Function:
TSH

T4 Free

Estradiol

Serum Indices


I guess he's worried about the condition of my liver, or just wants to do a routine check knowing I'm on TRT.

Hopefully I don't get any negative, or worrisome results.

I guess it's nice to have a Dr. who takes the time to request important tests.

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## bass

drink lots of water before yo go to the lab. in fact drinking lots of water every day is a good thing anyway.

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## killergoalie

> drink lots of water before yo go to the lab. in fact drinking lots of water every day is a good thing anyway.


Thanks Bass! I actually do drink plenty of water every day. (That's the ONLY thing I drink with the exception of a Coke zero on very rare occasions).

I've actually already had the tests done...just waiting for results. I had no idea he ordered a random glucose test, otherwise I wouldn't have eaten the 4 OREO cookies I did. LOL (Hey we all need a little treat every now and then).

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## keep fightin

not the double-stuffed ones!

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## killergoalie

> not the double-stuffed ones!


No, not those...actually they were the 30% less fat ones. Hey I'm only human.  :Big Grin:

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## marleyman

KG, I am new to this as well about three months in. First gel then injections.When i first found out about the low test it freaked me out. So everyday i came home ignored my family and went on the net and found alot of info. Some good but mostly bad untill i found this site. I was not feeling good right away either. Pissed off everyone at my doctors office because everytime i felt a negative thing i freaked out and bothered them. They had enough of my crap and pushed me to another doc. After two injections with her and constant emails to her about everything. She finnaly told me to relax and stop thinking about it. Stop the constant internet research and just relax. Bam! ever since then i feel great! I think we all focus on numbers instead of how we feel. I know i am a newbie but just wanted to share that with you and every newbie that looks on this site. i am sure most of us did what i did when they found out they had low test.

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## killergoalie

Thanks for the support, and suggestions, marleyman...much appreciated.

Oh I know how you feel/felt. I think what really annoyed me is that after reading so many reports on the net about how men on TRT all of a sudden started feeling 25 again, I thought it would be practically an overnight sensation! Yes I know...stupid me! But then common sense prevailed, and I realized it was a lengthy, and very detailed "fight"/procedure. There was/is no "quick fix".

Of course I wish I would start to feel more energetic on a more consistent basis, instead of just a few days at a time, weeks apart.

I'm happy with how my testosterone levels are rising nicely, I just wish my Estrogen levels would go down, so hopefully I'd feel more energetic. Not to mention to hopefully also stop the slight nipple pain I've been feeling the past week or so.

But I'm glad to have Dr.s who are apparently at least taking an interest in my health, and my levels.

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## marleyman

Stick with it. I was ready to toss in the towel as well untill i found this site. Good info,good people who truly just wants to help and share their experence.

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## killergoalie

Oh I'm going to stick with it for sure. Having a total testosterone level of 40.3 ng/dl when I started was really depressing! (Old ladies who have been dead for 3 years have higher testosterone levels than that!!) So yeah, I'm going to stick with this. I love the SubQ injection protocol that I'm on, and yeah, this board has been very helpful and supportive. Helps us keep a level head, and not get too excited, or too concerned.

I think once I start feeling better on a more consistent basis, I'll be able to relax a bit more. Plus it will probably create a "snowball" effect in that feeling better will allow me to be more active, which will in return make me feel even better still!

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## killergoalie

Well I just got my Blood Work results back...not too bad I don't think. (Except for my Estradiol...which went UP!!!, and of course my glucose was high, which I knew it was going to be.) Some of my Hematology is also out of range, but not too severely. Any suggestions or reasons as to why you might think the results
are what they are, would be greatly appreciated.

TEST / RESULT / RANGE / UNITS

Hematology

WBC / 8.2 / 4.0 - 10.0 / giga/L

RBC / 4.94 / 4.20 - 5.40 / tera/L

Hemoglobin / 130 / 133 - 165 / g/L

Hematocrit / 0.42 / 0.38 - 0.50

MCV / 86 / 82 - 98 / fl

MCH / 26.3 / 27.5 - 33.5 / pg

MCHC / 307 / 305 - 365 / g/L

RDW / 17.1 / 11.5 - 14.5 / %

Platelet Count / 304 / 150 - 400 / giga/L

DIFFERENTIAL

Neutrophils / 4.7 / 2.0 - 7.5 / giga/L

Lymphocytes / 2.5 / 1.0 - 4.0 / " "

Monocytes / 0.7 / 0.1 - 0.8 / " "

Eosinophils / 0.2 / 0.0 - 0.7 / " "

Basophils / 0.0 / 0.0 - 0.2 / " "

Ferritin / 59 / 15 - 300 / ug/L

Random Glucose / 12.3 / 3.3 - 11.0 / mmol/L

Alkaline Phosphatase / 70 / 48 - 138 / U/L

ALT / 28 / <60 / U/L

THYROID FUNCTION

TSH / 1.6 / 0.38 - 5.5 / mU/L

T4 Free / The free T4 order was cancelled. The BCMA/MSP Protocol recommends no further testing. 
However, a specimen will be stored seven days.


Estradiol / 184 / < 150 / pmol/L

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## keep fightin

it was those damn Oreos! but so good.. your gettin on top of it Killer

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## killergoalie

> it was those damn Oreos! but so good.. your gettin on top of it Killer


Exactly!! I guess Mr. Christie needs to come out with an Arimidex Edition of Oreos!! I can just hear the walk-in clinic Dr. now..OMG you have Diabetes!! Uhhh yeah...I've had it for like 7 years that I know of, and my blood sugar levels are usually quite good esp if I'm tested after an 8-10 hour fast...NOT 10 minutes after I've just eaten 4 Oreo cookies!! LOL!!

Thanks KF, it's a never ending battle it seems.

I'm thinking a multiVitamin might be a good idea...something like MegaMen 50 plus from GNC. (as long as it contains Iron, B6, B12, Folic Acid, and Copper)

Hopefully it will help raise my Hemoglobin, MCH, and possibly my MCHC levels, while at the same time lower my RDW % although they're not too much out of range.

I hope to get something to lower my E2 levels this week as well.

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## keep fightin

Hey Killer, yeah getting that E into a range that has you " high E " symptom free will make a world of difference, you've probably seen that there is a lot of discussion on just where that sweet spot is, there is one school of thought here that feels higher E with no outward symptoms is OK , maybe even beneficial. In your case I suspect you will feel better with that E down a bit. for me, crashing my E into the teens was horrible! so I would say be conservative and make small adjustments. Saw a study of Valencia oranges with no detectable Vit C in them , the multi is not a bad idea..

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## killergoalie

Sounds like an interesting study, KF. Although I don't see what benefit eating oranges without Vitamin C in them would serve. lol Isn't Vitamin C a GOOD thing to have?

I'd be happy to get my E2 level down to between 22 & 30. Hell, I'd be happy to have it down to 35-40 for starters. Just so I'd feel better.

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## killergoalie

Deleted.

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## Jailer

So what happened here? The last post seems to be on 4-23. I am almost 3 months into TRT and getting some of the same lethargy and wondered if killergoalie was able to find an answer.

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