# STEROIDS FORUM > IGF-1 LR3, HGH, and INSULIN QUESTIONS >  Serum HGH Testing

## run_n_fool

I am going to have a serum HGH test performed by privatemdlabs. The generic test order said I should fast over night and not have any strenuous exercise for 30m prior to the test. Is this just a generic disclaimer for any blood work, or do I really need to do this fasted? I ask because others on this board have suggested having serum HGH levels checked 3.5 hours after injection, which to me implies you would eat before the draw (unless you are getting up in the wee hours to inject and then doing BW right after ...)

I'd like to get up, eat, etc and inject around 10 AM and have the draw at 1:30 pm or so but at same time I do not want to distort the results somehow.

Any advice from those who know would be appreciated.

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## Sgt. Hartman

The reason they tell you to do the test fasted is because natural GH isn't released when any significant amounts glucose are present in the blood. They're not counting on the fact that youll be injecting your GH so for your purposes it doesn't matter. 

And you're correct, serum GH should peak 3 1/2 hrs after pinning. 

You should post up your results, how many iu's you're gonna pin, and what brand of GH you're taking.

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## Sgt. Hartman

From a study Serono did after injecting 2.92mg GH.




Mean hGH (± SD) serum concentration vs time profiles following subcutaneous administration of 2.92 mg rhGH/subject using either the cool.click 2 device or standard syringe with needle.

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## run_n_fool

Thanks Sgt, appreciate the comments. I am currently doing 4ius of (gasp!) Chinese blue tops. Been using hem for a while and feel they are working, but I'm on my last kit and want confirmation on them before I reorder. 

Would doing the blood draw on 4iu be ok? I don't really want to do 10 because that's not a realistic dosage for my goals. I just want to know that 4iu is giving me the boost it should. My plan is still a 10m injection and an early afternoon draw. Presumably at that time my natty level would be virtually zero

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## Sgt. Hartman

I've read a bunch of stuff recently where GH manufacturers have done serum testing post injection but all the studies are with high amounts of GH. Like anywhere from 10iu to 20 something iu. I really don't know what kind of numbers to expect for 4iu. I'm probably gonna get a serum test next week so I'll read up on it some more and let you know if I find anything on lower dosing. Or you could just pin 10iu that one day......it aint gonna kill you lol.

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## z06vett

What are the typical results on a Hg serum test? @ 10 iu????

Also what are we lookin for on a hg serum test? 
Are we trying to find out is the Hg is real or not????

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## Sgt. Hartman

The graph I posted above from Serono shows that 8.76iu got GH serum levels to a max of 18ng/ml. 
 
I'm trying to post a table on a study Eli Lilly did but it won't appear correctly but here's the graph, sc injection got to 53.2ng/ml but they pinned .1mg/kg which would be about 25iu for a 200lb person. 






From these and other studies I'd say your GH serum level should peak at least 2 times in ng/ml per iu injected. If anybody else has any info on this then please post it up. 

Another thing I think is interesting is everyone always seems to think that IM injection has a much faster clearance time but according to this it doesn't.

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## Sgt. Hartman

Here's another one. Looks like there could be a good bit of variance in test results.  :Frown:

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## sgt2jay

not sure if this helps or not my serum levels came back at 5.7 ng/ml with a reference interval of 0.0 - 2.9 age 41 on 2.5 iu.

I also took it fasted as suggested by the lab when i scheduled blood draw.

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## Sgt. Hartman

Good info sgt. That's right in line with what all these studies show of about double the iu injected in ng/ml.

BTW, I'm gonna get my GH serum tested probably next week. I'm 100% sure that my pharm grade GH is real GH, but I've gotten interested in this whole serum level testing from reading all over the internet where people running chinese generics are testing in the 60's and some even into the 100's on 10iu. All the pharm GH companies have done extensive testing on this and I have yet to read of any results anywhere even close to what some of these people are reporting. I don't know exactly what's in some of these "brands" but it makes me more suspicious of them. How could chinese generic GH raise serum levels over 3 times that of pharm grade at the same dose? Because imo it may be 191aa GH but it's not biologically active and they make it for cheap so they over dose the hell out of it. A serum level in the 60's would be in line with pinning 30iu a day and no one running chinese generics is getting 30iu a day type results.

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## z06vett

Lol im confused, So what would that make it chinese hg, REAL or FAKE?

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## Sgt. Hartman

I'm saying it could be 191aa GH but have no biological effect due to how it's made. 

Read this http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...=#.T6SRYDd5mc0

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## FCVtec

So you mean to tell me that a serum result can read off the charts but is nothing but biological inactive gh?? I read your link and he does confirm that a mass spectometry will tell you if its gh or not but wont tell you if it has been "folded" correctly but I didnt see where he says that the biological inactive gh would test as gh serum in the bloodstream or anything related to blood test results. Did I miss something on that article(I've had a long day sorry if this is stupid and i missed something obvious)

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## Sgt. Hartman

Lol. No you didn't miss anything obvious and I could be wrong but what I think he's saying is that you could have a poly-peptide chain of 191 amino acids in the correct sequence that would test as pure 191aa GH but have no biological effect when administered. Although it's a different test, the same would be true for a GH serum test. So yes you could have a GH serum test off the charts and still be injecting bunk (biologically inactive) GH.

The test they use for GH serum as best I can tell is a RIA (radioimmunoassay) test which also fails to accurately test whether or not the GH is biologically active. Explained here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8477657 If you read all that you'll see that it'd be nearly impossible for any of us to have a GH serum biological activity test.

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## run_n_fool

So I scheduled a test for yesterday at 1130 thru private md labs and in preparation I injected 8iu sub-q at 8 or so. I just got my labs back and my result was 18.4 with a reference range of 0-2.9

To me this seems like pretty positive proof that my hgh is legit, particularly given that I've experienced the typical sides and my progress has been decent considering my dosing, training and diet.

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## Sgt. Hartman

Good to hear man, 18ng/ml is right in line with what 8iu should test as. Did you get an IGF-1 test done also?

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## run_n_fool

I did not opt to get an IGF test performed. Originally the IGF was the test I had planned to get but reading some posts here made me realize the Serum test was a much better indicator of what I'd been using. I suppose I could have done both but I didn't see the point of that, a poor serum result would have told me what I wanted to know.

That said, in hindsight what do I miss by not getting the IGF test too?

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## Sgt. Hartman

I've had bad experiences running chinese generics, so to me the gh serum test would show that what you're injecting is GH, and the IGF-1 test would show that it's biologically active and it's doing what it's supposed to.

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## flex25j

if you were shooting hgh that was not biologically active you would get no sides at all because it would be a dead substance floating around.

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## Sgt. Hartman

^^^^But you could get GH like sides from the anti-diuretic hormone and other BS chemicals they put in their so called GH in order to mimic the sides of real GH.

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## Brohim

Diretic's would not make your hand bloat and tingle.

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## Sgt. Hartman

Re-read what I wrote - I said ADH (anti diuretic hormone) look it up.

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## flex25j

You could be right but most bunk hgh has no gh serum. The hyges I seen test lately has high igf and serum levels. The fake crap Comes up nothing.

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## FCVtec

> You could be right but most bunk hgh has no gh serum. The hyges I seen test lately has high igf and serum levels. The fake crap Comes up nothing.


I can't argue, saw 3 different blood test results on those and they looking good ATM. One of the guys actually added IGF 1 and serum and came up very good w/ a serum of 20+ and IGF of almost 400.

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## Optima25



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## gixxerboy1

> So you mean to tell me that a serum result can read off the charts but is nothing but biological inactive gh?? I read your link and he does confirm that a mass spectometry will tell you if its gh or not but wont tell you if it has been "folded" correctly but I didnt see where he says that the biological inactive gh would test as gh serum in the bloodstream or anything related to blood test results. Did I miss something on that article(I've had a long day sorry if this is stupid and i missed something obvious)


yes, marcus mad a post about this. It was his emails with someone from a lab. To be able to check if the gh is actually bio available would not be cost effected and very hard to do

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## Meatball

Apologies for bumping an old post, but I've been on 5iu Ed of generics for three months and my igf levels haven't moved , even though I had 2 gh serum tests that showed 12 ng.ml for ten ius. This explains why the 'real' hgh wasn't raising igf. I assume that it means on the plus side that the inactive hgh doesn't cause side effects? Or is it the worst of all worlds?

How legit is this theory?

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## slimshady01

I'm curious about this to, if the generics are giving you a high serum test and high igf then it can't be inactive correct ? Which would be a good sign the GH is legit?

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## ImpeccableChaos

> I'm curious about this to, if the generics are giving you a high serum test and high igf then it can't be inactive correct ? Which would be a good sign the GH is legit?


I would like to know too. A serum score of say 20 and an IGF score of 400, isn't this what we are after?

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## ImpeccableChaos

> I would like to know too. A serum score of say 20 and an IGF score of 400, isn't this what we are after?


Bump

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## ImpeccableChaos

I am going to retest the Hyge's I have been using for 2 months now. Last time I injected 8ius SQ and had blood drawn 3.5 hrs later. I got a score of 13.8. This time I am going to inject IM and add the IGF-1 test to see where my levels are after using 2ius for 8 weeks. I am doing this because I want to see if the generic that everyone is so down on actualy did raise my IGF-1 level and because I got my hands on some Serostim and I will be checking it after I get these results and have some time to run the pharm grade. Should be interesting. Does it matter to fast or timing for the IGF-1 test?

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## slimshady01

I don't think it does but wait for more to chime in.. Thanks for doing this.

which Hyges are you using?

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## Sgt. Hartman

Fasting doesn't matter as far as I know. 

So you've been running 2iu and are gonna pin 8iu before blood draw?

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## ImpeccableChaos

Yes 8ius, I would use 10ius but these are the 8iu vials that come in the 200iu kit. And also since I pinned 8 the first time the only variable ill be the IM instead of the SQ. I was told that the standard protocol was 10 iu pinned IM in the shoulder. I have never done the shoulder just thigh, should this matter? These are from a sponsor om SF board who is highly thought of, until I found this forum and the ( Chinese Concerns thread) I thought I was home free! Now I have second thoughts and am trying to be sure. Slimshady these are .com.cn and the check out on the site for whatever that is worth. I wrote to the site and asked them about my concerns and a guy named raymond responded that they were the GMP manufacturer and that the .cn undeground manufacturer and if I tested the two products there's would be stronger. He even said that the .cn's wwere not fake just not as good.

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## slimshady01

I have com.cn or whichever .. Had guys test them came back fine but now using jins to be sure,.

But looking forward to your results .

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## ImpeccableChaos

I will post results latter this week. I have been using 12mm (1/2" pins) SQ for my GH, I picked up some 8mm ( 5/16" ) pins the other day. Are these to short for pinning the gh? I hope these IGF numbers come back good tho. From what I have read on this forum that is not a sure sign it is legit but what other way is there to tell outside of sending the actual gh to a lab for testing. I finally think I found a decent source for Jins but I already got a 126iu kit of Serostim and a 12mg pen of Genotropin by Pfizer. But I will still test these too. I know we don't talk pricing on here but were your Jins a lot more than the Hyge's? Slim are you in the states?

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## ImpeccableChaos

I took the test yesterday at exactly 3.5 hrs after pinning 8ius IM in my thigh at 8:30. I missed my exit on the highway and almost got lost! I got there at 5 mins before 1 and they took me right away. She actually drew the blood at 1 on the dot. I only have 1/2: pins so I hope that's lond enough to be considered IM, I push he needle in as far as possible and I am pretty lean. Last time I got my results in 2 days so I will post as soon as I get them.

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## slimshady01

Awesome , hopefully you know by tomorrow

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## ImpeccableChaos

He Guys, Got the email this morning. I have heard people with higher IGF numbers but I will let you guys comment. Like I said I pinned 8ius IM in my thigh and tested 3,5 hrs later. I just copied and pasted but I can print out and black out my info and scan it if you guys want.

IGF-1
Insulin -Like Growth Factor I---- 252 ---- High --- ng/ml 56-201
Growth Hormone , Serum
Growth Hormone, Serum ------ 19.6 ---- High--- ng ml 0.0-2.9

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## slimshady01

Serum level is good, igf is on the high close to normal range.

How long have you been on these ? Igf can take time to build up,,

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## ImpeccableChaos

It's been 2 months Slimshady, I thought that was long enough, What about my age, is the test already adjusted for age? I will be 56 very soon.

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## ImpeccableChaos

Hey Slimshady I have been on these for 2 months, I thought that was long enough. I am 56 soon does that matter?
ooops thought the first post didn't go through lol

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## slimshady01

> Hey Slimshady I have been on these for 2 months, I thought that was long enough. I am 56 soon does that matter?
> ooops thought the first post didn't go through lol


Yeah 2 months should be long enough, ill wait for others to chime in.

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## ImpeccableChaos

Will do, I was hoping for a higher IGF number for sure. But it is still high but I will wait for marcus and Sgt. and the other guys and see what they think.

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## Sgt. Hartman

I wouldn't expect any miraculous high IGF number at 2iu and 56 yr old (no offense lol). 

Do you know what your baseline IGF levels were?

I think a better gauge would be how much IGF increased rather than just looking at the total which depends on so many different variables and is very much individualistic.

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## slimshady01

Solid answer ,I didn't realize he was on just 2iu..


I'm only on 3 hoping I can get some fat loss

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## testluva

> Solid answer ,I didn't realize he was on just 2iu..
> 
> I'm only on 3 hoping I can get some fat loss


For fat loss you need a minimum 4ius 5/2.

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## slimshady01

> For fat loss you need a minimum 4ius 5/2.


Don't want to hijack ,

Buying may go 4iu every 6 and 1 off

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## Granovich

> He Guys, Got the email this morning. I have heard people with higher IGF numbers but I will let you guys comment. Like I said I pinned 8ius IM in my thigh and tested 3,5 hrs later. I just copied and pasted but I can print out and black out my info and scan it if you guys want.
> 
> IGF-1
> Insulin -Like Growth Factor I---- 252 ---- High --- ng/ml 56-201
> Growth Hormone , Serum
> Growth Hormone, Serum ------ 19.6 ---- High--- ng ml 0.0-2.9



what if you split the 8 iU into 2 shots will that lower the GH serum ?

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## ImpeccableChaos

Hey Sgt, thanks for the input. ( and no offense taken lol )Unfortunately I don't have a baseline and when I was thinking about it today I remembered I was only on 2ius a day. I was thinking that because I pinned 8ius before the test that I would get high IGF levels. But the large dose on that day was really for the blood serum test. The IGF number is more of a long term use number isn't it? And that would reflect the 2iu dose not the 8ius I pinned for only the one day.

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## ImpeccableChaos

So do you guys think that my numbers reflect a good Anti Aging - healing - well being levels? ( whether it's legit HGH or whatever ) My IGF level is still 25% over the HIGHER variable,

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## Sgt. Hartman

> Hey Sgt, thanks for the input. ( and no offense taken lol )Unfortunately I don't have a baseline and when I was thinking about it today I remembered I was only on 2ius a day. I was thinking that because I pinned 8ius before the test that I would get high IGF levels. But the large dose on that day was really for the blood serum test. The IGF number is more of a long term use number isn't it? And that would reflect the 2iu dose not the 8ius I pinned for only the one day.


Exactly.

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## ImpeccableChaos

> So do you guys think that my numbers reflect a good Anti Aging - healing - well being levels? ( whether it's legit HGH or whatever ) My IGF level is still 25% over the HIGHER variable,


^^^^^
That, or could 8ius of IGF raise my level to that 3.5 hrs. later? I know without a baseline it's almost impossible to be sure.

I am looking forward to trying the pharm grade I got but I don't see why I shouldn't finish this kit first.

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## cyounger100

> Solid answer ,I didn't realize he was on just 2iu..
> 
> 
> I'm only on 3 hoping I can get some fat loss


well im on 3 ius of gentropin and you will get great fat loss from that dose i wish i could run em higher but cant afford it .I guess it depends on the brand i ran seros for a lil while when i was out of gens and 3 ius of them didnt do near what the gens do at same dose

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## ImpeccableChaos

I was under the impression that Sero's were as strong as any. Gh is so F***ing confusing, I mean WTF! 
cyyounger how long have you been running the 3 and how do you feel, what goals?

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## cyounger100

> I was under the impression that Sero's were as strong as any. Gh is so F***ing confusing, I mean WTF! 
> cyyounger how long have you been running the 3 and how do you feel, what goals?


my main goal is just too stay lean and at that dose it works very well for me esp when i eat shit i wake up in morning lean as can be as when i was off of it that def wasnt the case . I have been running it 7 months or so between 2 ius and 5 ius i gonna stay on 3 iu dose for money reason of course but that dose works well for what i want . Yea i heard the seros were powerful too but the ones i had didnt compare too the gens im on

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## ImpeccableChaos

I have some Sero's and just a few Gens ( 36 iu cartridge ). I am going to finish this kit of Hyge's then try the pharm grade stuff. What did you notice from the Gens that wasn't there with the Serostim? Did you have the cartridges or the miniquicks? I have to reconstitute the whole 36iu and at 2ius a day ( 18 days )I will have more than I can use before it goes bad I think.

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## cyounger100

> I have some Sero's and just a few Gens ( 36 iu cartridge ). I am going to finish this kit of Hyge's then try the pharm grade stuff. What did you notice from the Gens that wasn't there with the Serostim? Did you have the cartridges or the miniquicks? I have to reconstitute the whole 36iu and at 2ius a day ( 18 days )I will have more than I can use before it goes bad I think.



I have the 12 mg two chamber cartridges and the 1mg minis and yea your good with cartiges it want go bad by then . With the gens i leaned out nicely on em esp with a piss poor diet i lost 5 lbs in the first two weeks using them on a shitty diet unlike generics i run where i gain 15 lbs lol my skin started tighten up nice after about two weeks also . On the seros nothing i ran em at 3 ius ED and the leaness i had from the gens was slowly fading away abs werent near as visible and really felt nothing on em . Im not sure if i had a bad batch of them or what as i though they were suppose to be great gh but i will not run them again i will run the gens forever hopefuly they are really great .

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## ImpeccableChaos

Thanks, It does sound like you may have gotten a bad batch of seros. One thin I like about the Gen cartridges is they look harder to counterfeit, although as e have seen anything can be. As long as I use Bac water you think the cartridge ill last 2 weeks then?

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## cyounger100

my cartridges last 30 days when i was running low a few months back i was runnin 2 ius and it was fine so u will be goood and i draw the water out thats in there before you add any water i didnt di that the first time and added my own bac water and almost lost 36 ius so be careful

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## ImpeccableChaos

Not sure what you mean about the cartridges. Are you saying I should draw the sterile water out of the cartridge? I know not to use the water that comes with the cartridge. I thought I just added bac water to the powder end of the cartridge and just treated it like a vial and disregard the water end of the cartridge.

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## cyounger100

> Not sure what you mean about the cartridges. Are you saying I should draw the sterile water out of the cartridge? I know not to use the water that comes with the cartridge. I thought I just added bac water to the powder end of the cartridge and just treated it like a vial and disregard the water end of the cartridge.



yea im saying the water that it comes with make sure too draw it out and disgard it . I didnt do that one time and because of the pressure i assume pushed the rubber and the water out the back when adding water and almost lost the second rubber piece as it went all the way too end before i noticed it thankfully it didnt fall out or i would of lost 36 ius lol

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## Fit N Fun

I am 58 years old and have run HGH on and off for a while.

Last year I decided to have my HGH analysed by Mass Spectrometer for purity and then used IGF-1 blood spot tests to confirm that the HGH was active.

I am not sure whether inactive HGH would show up on a serum test, but IGF-1 blood spot tests are cheap and can be ordered online from any country, so was by far the best solution for me.

The Mass Spectrometer tests showed that my HGH was pure and my IGF-1 tests showed 171 ng/ml is my natural level.

Taking 4iu per day of HGH at 7am 5on/2off gave me 393 ng/ml on the last IGF-1 test, last year my result was 424 ng/ml for the same dose.

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## slimshady01

> I am 58 years old and have run HGH on and off for a while.
> 
> Last year I decided to have my HGH analysed by Mass Spectrometer for purity and then used IGF-1 blood spot tests to confirm that the HGH was active.
> 
> I am not sure whether inactive HGH would show up on a serum test, but IGF-1 blood spot tests are cheap and can be ordered online from any country, so was by far the best solution for me.
> 
> The Mass Spectrometer tests showed that my HGH was pure and my IGF-1 tests showed 171 ng/ml is my natural level.
> 
> Taking 4iu per day of HGH at 7am 5on/2off gave me 393 ng/ml on the last IGF-1 test, last year my result was 424 ng/ml for the same dose.


Solid post,

Which growth were you running?

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## clayton95

Are there companies you can send a vial to that will test it for you.........that you can do it anonomously. Just placed a large ********** order and now worried

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## ImpeccableChaos

> I am 58 years old and have run HGH on and off for a while.
> 
> Last year I decided to have my HGH analysed by Mass Spectrometer for purity and then used IGF-1 blood spot tests to confirm that the HGH was active.
> 
> I am not sure whether inactive HGH would show up on a serum test, but IGF-1 blood spot tests are cheap and can be ordered online from any country, so was by far the best solution for me.
> 
> The Mass Spectrometer tests showed that my HGH was pure and my IGF-1 tests showed 171 ng/ml is my natural level.
> 
> Taking 4iu per day of HGH at 7am 5on/2off gave me 393 ng/ml on the last IGF-1 test, last year my result was 424 ng/ml for the same dose.


Hey Fit n Fun, I don't have a baseline test unfortunately, I am new to gh and screwed up that one. My IGF level was only 252 but on 2ius not 4. Do you think my score is about right for half the dose? And what are the reference numbers for your spot test? LabCorp here in the states is 56-201 ng/ml.

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## Fit N Fun

> Hey Fit n Fun, I don't have a baseline test unfortunately, I am new to gh and screwed up that one. My IGF level was only 252 but on 2ius not 4. Do you think my score is about right for half the dose? And what are the reference numbers for your spot test? LabCorp here in the states is 56-201 ng/ml.


I use a ZRT blood spot test for my IGF-1 levels.

My natural level = 171 ng/ml and with 4iu I have around 400 ng/ml, so each HGH iu is adding 60 ng/ml injecting 5 days on 2 days off.

Here is an official document showing IGF-1 ranges

www.fda.gov%2Fdownloads%2FAdvisoryCommittees%2FCom mitteesMeetingMaterials%2FDrugs%2FEndocrinologican dMetabolicDrugsAdvisoryCommittee%2FUCM242621.pdf&e i=3KiPUZ0G8JvUBcf9gNgJ&usg=AFQjCNGkUJHQpcK87MvJtQY bllPP_wXWpA&sig2=kKlSVbH3rMfBopfj8t6SjQ

Your test shows 252, subtract 120 = 130 ng/ml for your natural level, so you must be 70 to 80 years old,

Alternatively, you are about 30 years old and your HGH is fake.

It really is important to find your natural IGF-1 level so that you can be certain of the effect of your HGH injection.

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## Relax007

Are you supposed to inject IM or Sub-q before the test?

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## beerdogg

Inject IM.

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## Relax007

> Inject IM.


The guys above talk about injecting sub-q!

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