# COMPETITIVE BODYBUILDING - POWERLIFTING - ATHLETICS & SPORTS > COLLEGIATE & PROFESSIONAL SPORTS >  Wich drugs for wich position?

## Mr. Gottabejuiced

What do you think is the ideal cycle position by position break it down for me if you know. 

Anybody know some good books or journals on this? 

There is no way a receiver is going to want to use the same drugs as a linemen. 

We know from my last post everyone in the NFL is using. So any of you kids out there that want to play, you need to figure out exactly what you are going to take, position by position and how you will beat the test. 

I think there is no question that if these linemen are doing GH, and multiple steroids , they wouldn't be **** without the drugs.
 :Don't know:

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## RoNNy THe BuLL

It's not the drugs that make you a better player, it's your conditioning drills.

Winstrol won't improve your ability to move or catch the ball. It MAY improve how fast you get there or how hard you hold onto a ball after a tackle, but it won't improve skill.

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

Well lets look at the reality of this. If you are talking about a lineman who is 6-4 330 and on steroids and GH;

We can be generous and assume he is benching 500 and squatting 650. (wich is actually stronger then most NFL linemen) if you agree that the strength would go up by 40% from his base strength, then he would have been maxing out at 300. If he was squatting 650 then he would max out without the drugs at around 380. We know thier weight would go down at least 40 lbs. with just steroids. So he would still weigh 280 lbs. (this doesn't make sense)

But this isn't really realistic because over a peroid of several cycles and GH the strength increases would probably be looking more like 60%, from base. So the bench would be a little under 250, and squat around 275. And the bodyweight would be at least 60 lbs less at around 270. 

This still doesn't look quite right. Realistically, and I know this sounds messed up, but you have to consider that the taller you are, the more weight you are going to be able to pack on a frame. A guy who is 5-5 is not going to put on as much weight as a guy who is 6-6 on a cycle of identical dosages of Anadrol . 

Honestly I have seen these guys practice in person, and if you saw them up close you would be deeply disappointed. They straight up suck without the drugs. 

By the way, Bill Romanowskis wife testified that he was not only on steroids, but also GH, at 245 lbs. 

I would say the average 6-4 300 lb NFL linemen withouth the GH and steroids would be a fat 220 lbs with a 245 lb. bench and a 275 max squat. (well no more like 255.

Not kidding.

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## Jantzen4k

id say 

linemen use test/decca/dbol 

recieves and db's use whinny/prop/eq/anavar 

lb's and rb's use a little of both

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## Blown_SC

> It's not the drugs that make you a better player, it's your conditioning drills.
> 
> Winstrol won't improve your ability to move or catch the ball. It MAY improve how fast you get there or how hard you hold onto a ball after a tackle, but it won't improve skill.


BUMP That....

TRAINING, mentality, and skill.... it's where it's at....  :Cool:

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

Blown SC,

Hey if you don't want to talk about steroids in football stay out of this post. You are a guy who has been training seriously for 1 YEAR? And therefor you think that you can be a world class athlete without steroids . 

This isn't about proving who is taking steroids. Its about what drugs to actually take, for people who are really interested in playing serious football, not some pansy assed low level Canadian college ball. 

Go to a natural bodybuilding bulliten board if you don't like it, otherwise don't waste our time.  :Devil Grin:

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

Blown SC has over 4,000 posts and he hasn't even done one cycle? And he has only trained seriously for 1 year? 

Your strange man...

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## Blown_SC

> Blown SC,
> 
> Hey if you don't want to talk about steroids in football stay out of this post. You are a guy who has been training seriously for 1 YEAR? And therefor you think that you can be a world class athlete without steroids . 
> 
> This isn't about proving who is taking steroids. Its about what drugs to actually take, for people who are really interested in playing serious football, not some pansy assed low level Canadian college ball. 
> 
> Go to a natural bodybuilding bulliten board if you don't like it, otherwise don't waste our time.


  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  

When I joined the board a year ago, we were asked to fill out a profile, how is that relevant to my post? I also didn't say I was a world class athlete... nor did I say you could be one without them... but Training, Skill and Mentality are the keys, you can take all the gear in the world... but without them .. where are you?

You also can't break it down position by position, as everyone is different, as are beginning weights, previous experience of AS, as well as tolerance....

Finally, I can post wherever I see fit, as this is an open board... got beef? Keep it to PMs....

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## Blown_SC

> Blown SC has over 4,000 posts and he hasn't even done one cycle? And he has only trained seriously for 1 year? 
> 
> Your strange man...


Hmm.. age has something to do with it... smart guy right here....

Also, the profile is outdated.... which was made a year ago... 

EDIT: There, I updated it...

You've got a big mouth... and a PM  :Welcome: 

And here is a good thread to base a cycle from:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=120894

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

This is really what seperate those who make it from those who don't. Naturally ability my ass, Ben Johnson ran a 10.88 before steroids .

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

You need to find the perfect drug combination for your position, and beat the tests. You need to have knowledge of training, diet, nutrition, and have good biomechanics with football skills and in your sprinting/agility. 

Other then that, there really isn't much else. When you show up at a tryout they know who the best players are within 10-12 minutes.

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## skribbble

Agreeed... Wr and dbs should rock the winny and such, but isnt winny bad on joints and ****? i have a few friends that rocked winny only like dumbasses and destroyed knees and stuff. What would be good to take with winny to make sure nothing breaks?

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## Badgerman

World class athletes take steroids to RAISE THEIR TRAINING INTENSITY. That's what it is all about........the training intensity results in neuromuscular adaptation.......that's why guys like Ben J can bench over 400 and squat over 600 with a body weight of 173 lbs. It's not JUST mass. It's kind of like taking caffeine so you can play cards all night......athletes use steroids for the caffiene......to recover and maintain or increase mass and increase tendon strength under very high training volume. High training volume combined with training age results in neuro adaptation......that's how they run, throw, jump....etc etc.

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

Badgerman,

You should get the book "speed trap". It was written by Ben Johnsons coach. In the book it said that they trained at very low volume. For example and entire workout would be 3 sets of 4 reps in the squat with 8 minutes rest. 3x4 bench press with 8 minutes rest, 3x4 seated lat pulldowns 8 minutes rest. 

They trained extremely low volume in thier sprinting volume also. The numbers would really surprise you. 

It really does all boil down to drugs, with that style of training. I honestly had similiar statistics to Johnson, a 640 squat and 390 bench at 174 with 3% bodyfat. I did this by the age of 22, naturally. But then again I was on every supplement you can imagine from GNC since I was 16. (No prohormones ever though.) But I trained like an animal for 6 years uninterrupted.

I am not interested in playing in the NFL naturally, I want to get on steroids , GH, IGF-1, and get my squat over 1,000 and bench over 650. I would like to run a 4.0 at 220, but I know for a fact I can run under 4.3 naturally so I am not sure whats better, squatting 1000 with a 4.2 at 180 lbs, or squatting 1,000 with a 4.4 at 220. If I am lucky I will be able to get bigger and faster and stronger, I don't see why not really. Ultimately I am setting my sights on a 4.0 40 at 220 with a 1100 squat and a 700 bench. 

This is by no means average by NFL standereds; I know it will be fun one way or another.

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## Badgerman

> Badgerman,
> 
> You should get the book "speed trap". It was written by Ben Johnsons coach. In the book it said that they trained at very low volume. For example and entire workout would be 3 sets of 4 reps in the squat with 8 minutes rest. 3x4 bench press with 8 minutes rest, 3x4 seated lat pulldowns 8 minutes rest. 
> 
> They trained extremely low volume in thier sprinting volume also. The numbers would really surprise you. 
> 
> It really does all boil down to drugs, with that style of training. I honestly had similiar statistics to Johnson, a 640 squat and 390 bench at 174 with 3% bodyfat. I did this by the age of 22, naturally. But then again I was on every supplement you can imagine from GNC since I was 16. (No prohormones ever though.) But I trained like an animal for 6 years uninterrupted.
> 
> I am not interested in playing in the NFL naturally, I want to get on steroids , GH, IGF-1, and get my squat over 1,000 and bench over 650. I would like to run a 4.0 at 220, but I know for a fact I can run under 4.3 naturally so I am not sure whats better, squatting 1000 with a 4.2 at 180 lbs, or squatting 1,000 with a 4.4 at 220. If I am lucky I will be able to get bigger and faster and stronger, I don't see why not really. Ultimately I am setting my sights on a 4.0 40 at 220 with a 1100 squat and a 700 bench. 
> ...


That could be true......I remember reading an article on one of the worlds strongest guys for his weight......he would do one warm up set and then one rep max......every other week.......who knows.

What was Ben's running workout?

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

He would warm up with something like a couple 400s, or a mile jog, then he would do something like 

Day 1 6 300M at 90%
Day 3 6 120M at 90%
Day 5 6 60M at 90%

And that was about it for running. I can't remember for sure, but I remember vividly the weight sessions were very easy, but **** heavy weights. Like 90% of max for 4 reps, not to failure but 1-2 reps away. They were into winning period. And it did work, most the other sprinters on the team were internationally ranked in the top 20 in the world. 

But you know they stayed with it for years, and years and years. They worked with Johnson since he was 15. At the time he started his steroid use around 19 or so, he was running a 10.9. After the first year he was down to nearly a 10.1. 

Tim Mongomery was running a 10.6 his last year naturally, then after less then a year he was able to run a 9.9 with steroids . 

So you can imagine the(literally) thousands of athletes who had so much more natural ability that just didn't stay with it because they didn't think they 'had it'. Quite a few people have cracked the 10.4 barrier without steroids, and then quite, thinking they would never go anywere. (wich they probably wouldn't without steroids.) both Johnson and Montgomery improved 100M by around a full SECOND after steroids. About 7/10THS A SECOND THE FIRST YEAR!!! AND THEN ANOTHER 3/10 A SECOND AFTER ANOTHER YEAR AND A HALF. After that they were peaked, and there was nothing else they could take to get better. 

But that is really it above all, taking the drugs and training intelligently long term. Its really hard to stay with it...

By the way, I just stopped at the pharmacy on the way to the gym. They were going to sell me Humulin-R 100 units, 10 ML for $32.02. I asked them when I first got in if they had any glycogen Tablets, because I was a diabetic...

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## skribbble

whats humulin - R ?

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

One other thing; Speed can be improved drastically in any human being. Even without steroids , a person at 10% bodyfat can improve by at least 2/10 of a second in the 40 just by getting down to 3% bodyfat. So people who are at 20% bodyfat who think they were just born "slow" can improve even more by going from 20% to 3%. Problem is most people don't know how to take that first step, very few people, maybe less then 1% of general population have ever been that low, and most that do with only stay at that low bodyfat % for a few months. So you can see how the odds greatly increase in your favor if you really break it down. 

It truly boils down to desire, you get the training of a world class coach, get your bodyfat down to 3%, train for several years naturally, and then several years with steroids, and you can improve your speed to levels wich are equal to the level of improvement you can expect from weight training, and muscle mass. The olympic sprinters are just as doped up as the Olympia contenders (bodybuilders) and none of them would be anything to write home about without the drugs, same with NFL players, none of them would be anything without the drugs, they are not genetic freaks! They are steroid induced pussies! (in their natural form they are in fact pussies) 

Humulin R is insulin .

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

Why are they pussies? 

Ben Johnson couldn't bench 180 before he started steroids . Then, and only then he later benched 405. He trained for 5 years and he could only manage a 180lb. bench pre steroids.

And why are most NFL players pussies? Because the average linemen on steroids and god only knows what else benches around 455. Without steroids they would be benching around 250. The average lineman squats around 500, with the aid of steroids and often GH and god knows what else. Without the drugs most of them wouldn't be able to squat 275. 

You have got to get it out of your head that these people are gods...

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## LB55blitz

> And why are most NFL players pussies? Because the average linemen on steroids and god only knows what else benches around 455. Without steroids they would be benching around 250. The average lineman squats around 500, with the aid of steroids and often GH and god knows what else. Without the drugs most of them wouldn't be able to squat 275.


that is rediculous. you talk about yourself wanting to play in the nfl. with the way you talk, i can already tell you not a chance. playing football is about going out and kicking the living **** out of the person across you. who cares how much you bench or squat, it means nothing.

your posts are offensive to all of the football players that have put in countless hours of hardwork to get where they are. average linemen squats 500 with steroids??!! haha, yea right. my high school had 3 natural guys that could do that. you also say you want to squat 1100 and bench 700? that is rediculous, especially if you want to run a 4.0, which is also nearly impossible at 220. you obviously have no idea what it takes to play football, let alone be good at it. 

the nfl players do you steroids to gain strength, but they mainly use them to recover from sunday to sunday. the beating they take every week is insane. 

as far as the right steroid for each postition? it really doesnt matter. test and gh are in all cycles, and most probably use anavar and maybe some unknown things. the gear does not "make you a linemen or a defensive back", the way you train and eat is what makes you that.

i suggest you stop posting such complete bull****. it is offensive and degrading to every football player, natutal or not, that has ever stepped onto the field. 

so i want to play in the nfl, ALL I HAVE TO DO IS STICK A FEW NEEDLES IN ME AND POP A FEW PILLS AND IM THERE! what a load. your statements are rediculous and far from the truth. good luck not getting your ass handed to you the first time you step on to the football field, because it will happen.

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

Lbblitz55

So I take it you are not yet on steroids ?

Until you have trained in a gym with 30 NFL players at once, you don't have any idea what they can truly lift. I have seen it personally, you would not be that impressed.

You think that 3 guys on your team can squat 500 naturally, well how do you know who is taking what? Because they told you they didn't take steroids? 

And have you been on the field with NFL players in the past? Furthermore were do you think NFL players come from the moon? They actually come from the place were you are currently, college. 

You are too young to really understand the whole thing. The media is playing you like a fiddle into believing they have a product that is truly great.

An NFL doctor confirmed to me, that 95% of players use steroids . He said he was shocked also when he first found out. And he didn't think they would be **** without the drugs either. He said the whole thing was a fiasco. 

And yes if you want to play in the NFL it is a matter of sticking needles in you and popping pills, as well as intelligent training. Natural ability? Well for example if 2 guys who are running a 10.9 100M and a 10.6 100M best before they start steroids can become the #1 SPRINTER IN THE WORLD SIMPLY BY TAKING STEROIDS, why can't you be one of the top 2,000 Football players in the United States, after taking GH, Insulin , 3-5 steroids, clenbuterol , IGF-1, ect, ect. (granted they had intelligent training also)

If THE 2 TOP SPRINTERS OF ALL TIME CAN TAKE .90-1.2 SECONDS OFF A 100M TIME when they weren't anything special as athletes withouth the steroids and BE #1 ON THE PLANET with the steroids, its no big thing being on an NFL roster with the drugs. Because that is a totally different level of competition, (the olympics) its international, and you have to be one of the top 10 in the world to have a shot at a medal. Its a TOTALLY DIFFERENT DIMENSION OF COMPETITION. 

And someone like Bill Romanowski who is 6-4 245 without the drugs would only be around 190. That is a fact. Pro bowl linebacker is pretty mean at 190 eh? Eddie George 6-4 235 455 bench 600 squat. Without any juice then at best he is suddenly a 6-4 185-190 with a 275 bench and a 360 squat. Gee I would be shaking if he was coming at me...

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

LB55blitz,

What do you think would happen if a running back that could squat 1000 and bench 700 with a 4.2 40 at 220 lbs, was running at you? 

Tell me size, strength, and speed don't matter...  :What?:

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## LB55blitz

> LB55blitz,
> 
> What do you think would happen if a running back that could squat 1000 and bench 700 with a 4.2 40 at 220 lbs, was running at you? 
> 
> Tell me size, strength, and speed don't matter...


i see your reasoning and i apologize for being such an asshole earlier. i wasnt in the greatest mood to say the least.

but do you really think those stats are obtainable at a 4.2 sec. 40? and yes i understand steroids are a huge part, but theres more to it than that.

as far as me using steroids. yes i do, i just started. im about 8 weeks into my first cycle. apparently i am quite a bit younger than you, as i am just starting my college career. we do have a few future nfl players on our team, and they lift quite a bit more than what you said the pros do.

when you say pro linebackers would be about 190 without steroids, that just confuses me because i got to 225lbs completely natural. i did that by a relatively young age and i would think the pros could get a bit bigger than that.

and im not arguing the nfl players using steroids, i believe that easily 95% do. i know this from being around a large college program. just surprised as to how much you talk down to the nfel players. well i guess you have your opinion for a reason and i apologize again for being a dick, but i guess i just dont see your reasoning in everything you said.

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## BigJames

I understand some of this, but I am confused about the stats of the players...so we assume that a player who is 6'4" 245 is first, on juice and second that without juice he would not even hit 200lbs??? Why not? I am almost 6'2" and 235 natural right now. I think you are giving juice too much credit...it does not make miracles bro. I know guys who have cranked it up and they have not changed. I do not follow the logic in this thread.

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

Bill Romanowski was in an article in muscle media were he was hyped as natural, but actually on the hardest pharmaceuaticals available, he really looked like the kind of guy you could find in any random gym in the US.

8 weeks is not nearly enouph for the full effects, you will get a lot more gains after multiple cycles. 

The sprinters running 1 sec. faster in 100M after several years of training, and being at a peak, that is insanity!!! What would that do for a WR or DB or RB skills? 

The strength factor; powerlifters (admitted) steroid users that squat 1000-1100 in the USPA and the powerlifting organizations wich are known to be filled with heavy steroid users, are exactly 40% stronger then the strongest powerlifters in the natural Raw division, who are able to squat around 570-660, and there are only a handful of guys that can pass a blood test, lie detector test, and piss test. And wich ones are usual #1? Previous steroid users. And is there some cheating in this competition? Probably. 

We know that steroids increase a persons strength by like 40% right? Well this is another good sighn that is true. 

Also look at someone like Brian Bosworth. Look how much weight he had lost since his playing days. Lyle Alzado was 300 at one point. His brother was the same height, never did roids and only weighed 190 lbs! Lyle also shrunk down to under 200 after he couldn't use steroids any more. 

Like I said Ben Johnson increased his strength by about 120% with steroids going from a (after training 4 years) 180 lb. max to a 407 lb max. The 40% rule is a minimum, often people get far more strength gains.
If they were using juice and didn't make any gains, they were on fake stuff. Besides the point. 

Powerlifters who can squat 1000-1100 (admitted users) and world record holders are exactly 40% stronger then the WR holders in Natural Raw in Powerlifting who squat between 570-660. Depending on the organization. 

Steroids increase strength 40% after a couple years right? Gh puts on an extra 20 lbs, and steroids put on 30 lbs right? If someone is 245 ripped on GH and steroids, and Insulin like Romanowski he would be at least 40 lbs lighter without the drugs.

Another example, the U.K. national record in the squat Natural raw is only 489 lbs. They have people who can squat over 800 in U.K. that are on steroids. Actually they probably have people that can squat 900+ on steroids. 

Look at bodybuilders, look at pictures of them from before they start steroids, they look like nothing! Hell Hulk Hogan was tall, but if you see pictures of him before steroids he doesn't look anything remotely like he did at his peak. 

If bodybuilders can take all kinds of drugs and put on 120 lbs+ why can't a football player put on 40 lbs with the same drugs? Think about it. 

Are you starting to see my point? A lot of football players don't train hard, do drugs, drink heavily, beat thier wives, intimidate people non stop, and then to top it off they lie about what got them to were they are. That is the only reason I don't respect a lot of them. 

And I do feel that squatting 640 naturally I can break the 1000 pound barrier with GH and roids within 3 years. One reason, most powerlifters who have done it, were only lifting around 470 max in squat before they started roids. I have read this in interviews in powerlifting magazines. 

I know that speedwise, I can get faster, but I don't know how much bigger. I think its possible to put on 15 lbs, get faster and get my squat up to 1000+. But I don't think I can get faster if I put on more then 15 lbs, with steroids, but I will see. 

Hey I used to think only 5-7% of NFL was on the roids, so I could be wrong, but just read over what I said and think about it.

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

**** I don't really know what I can do personally. I mean people put on 40 lbs with steroids and take 2/10 off their 40 at the same time, why wouldn't I be able to do that?

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

I might have been a little off on the NFL players numbers. The squat for average lineman is probably closer to 550. But there are a lot of NFL lineman who squat 500 or less. 

A close example Shane Olivea; a well know lineman for Ohio state only squatted 520. 
Heres a first round draft pick, NFL lineman with a 500 lb squat; Vernon Carey
A first round draft pick and NFL lineman with a 485 lb. squat; Trey Derelik

Theres guys are all in the same class of NFL draft. These numbers are probably more then they actually lift on top of everything else, these are just numbers that the players and coaches at the college claimed they were able to lift to scouts. 

Probably 25% of NFL lineman squat under 500 lbs. Another 65% squat 500-570, and the other 10% squat over 600. 

And with bench press I still say the average is around 455. 

Get our your steroid calculators and subtract 40% from 600, and you can see clearly that none of these guys, at least the ones on steroids (95% of them) are really worth a **** without the drugs.

600-40%=360 max squat. And that is being extremely generous, saying that steroids, AND GH, only increases strength 40%. This is the top 10% of strength players in the league. Yes a few of them have insane lifts like 760 squats but not many. 

Lets not even get into the players who are only squatting like 475 on steroids...

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

Oh and we haven't even started on the Linebackers, Recievers, DBs, ect. 

Their lifts are even more pathetic for people on steroids .  :Devil Grin:

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## LB55blitz

> Get our your steroid calculators and subtract 40% from 600, and you can see clearly that none of these guys, at least the ones on steroids (95% of them) are really worth a **** without the drugs.
> 
> 600-40%=360 max squat. And that is being extremely generous, saying that steroids, AND GH, only increases strength 40%. This is the top 10% of strength players in the league. Yes a few of them have insane lifts like 760 squats but not many. 
> 
> Lets not even get into the players who are only squatting like 475 on steroids...


I got to 475 squat by 18 years old, naturally, how come I'm not already in the NFL? I'm 6'3'' 235 lbs., shouldn't I be in the NFL rather than college? There's more to it than that. I know plenty of high school NATURAL (and they are, I am sure) players that have lifts like those above. Also look at the top college linemen prospects each year, squats are up to 700 pounds, benches are up to 500 pounds. I just don't see how they can get weaker going through college. Doesn't make any sense to me. 

And how come all of the powerlifters, weightlifters and what not are not playing in the NFL?

 :Don't know:

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

Well you probably know that guy Shane Olivea was a top lineman at Ohio state, with a 520 max squat. And there were a couple first round draft choices who squatted 475 like I said. And reality is that when we are talking linebackers, running backs, yes there are a lot of guys who are only squatting 365 or less. 

You can look at these stats at www.nfl.com draft prospect profiles. 

The guys you saw squatting around 500 were they going down to parallel? Or slightly below parallel? Or were they just doing half squats?

The odds are they were on steroids if they are squatting that much at that age to below paralle. No offense. Some of the top NFL prospects are squatting 475 after they have finished college, such as first round draft picks, not all but just a few. Either that or they weren't doing full squats. 

You can check the stats yourself if you don't believe me.

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

It doesn't make any sense to me either. The thing that happens is that a lot of guys who could have made it, should have made it, wouldv'e made it have pretty good natural lifts, and then they never take the roids, and basically at a certain point they just get left in the dust...that is what happens to most the players. And thank god that is the case, because it really weeds out a lot of competition.

What I am saying is were would these guys be without the strength, size, and speed from the steroids , even if they were squatting 700, benching 500 and running a 4.9 at 300? They wouldn't be in the NFL without the drugs. 

There is no way around it. 

Yes I know it takes a lot of skill and quickness on top of all that, but strength, size, and speed, is a big part of what CAUSES an increase in the skill of playing the game of football. Steroids increase size by 30 lbs+, strength by 40%+ and speed by 2/10ths+,
and this is really just a starting point for someone over a 4 year period on the drugs, not to mention all the other performance enhancing substances, GH, ect. 

I know a lot of it is also natural gifts, but goddam I am tripping out over this...I really don't know man, what the hell would it be like if everyone was really 100% lifetime clean. (if noone was on steroids, or had ever done them)

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## odrorir

Dbol only=missionary
Winny=doggy style
Test=reverse jackhammer with a twist
Ect ect ect....


QUOTE=Mr. Gottabejuiced]What do you think is the ideal cycle position by position break it down for me if you know. 

Anybody know some good books or journals on this? 

There is no way a receiver is going to want to use the same drugs as a linemen. 

We know from my last post everyone in the NFL is using. So any of you kids out there that want to play, you need to figure out exactly what you are going to take, position by position and how you will beat the test. 

I think there is no question that if these linemen are doing GH, and multiple steroids , they wouldn't be **** without the drugs.
 :Don't know: [/QUOTE]

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

**** right. Funny thing is guys are lifting that amount, testing positive for steroids , known to be using GH, and then get back into the game without losing any weight and nobody asks any questions...

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## skribbble

> I got to 475 squat by 18 years old, naturally, how come I'm not already in the NFL? I'm 6'3'' 235 lbs., shouldn't I be in the NFL rather than college? There's more to it than that. I know plenty of high school NATURAL (and they are, I am sure) players that have lifts like those above. Also look at the top college linemen prospects each year, squats are up to 700 pounds, benches are up to 500 pounds. I just don't see how they can get weaker going through college. Doesn't make any sense to me. 
> 
> And how come all of the powerlifters, weightlifters and what not are not playing in the NFL?



Umm because football is about being better then everyone on the field. Yes big squats and lifts help you but its not about your lifts its about how you play the game.

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## RoNNy THe BuLL

Mr. Gottabejuiced, what's up your ass.

First off, you come out here and start bashing someone for being natural when you have what...80 posts? And on top of that a very respected member? Then, you go on to pretty much claim that ANYONE can be a pro-athlete IF they juice it enough....womp womp. 

You base a players SKILL on their strength. Womp womp again.

Steroids aren't a "magic juice" that make you into something you're not. Based on what you've stated, I can take any joke out there and turn them into an all star ATHLETE (keyword being ATHLETE) by saucing them up and comparing their max lifts? What the hell kinda theory is that? Seriously...I don't even know what to say to that.

I can find you a tonne of people who can bench press 300lbs+ for days but wouldn't even be able to perform one half decent plyometric training movement without ****ing it up time after time again. 

Skill can never be magically injected. If so, we'd all be athletes. Trust me.

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

Certain drugs can automatically increase endurance by 20%. Certain drugs take 1 second off some peoples 100M time. Certain drugs cause an increase in strength of sometimes not just 40%, but 100% or more. These drugs also increase the quickness of muscle contraction. This increase in strength and quickness leads to a drastic increase in not only straight ahead speed, but also agility, and lateral movement. 

One of the keys is that steroids will increase your strength drastically in your maximum lifts. And your maximum strength. But the more maximum strength you have the more power potential you ultimately have. Sure you can do plyometrics, and any other power, or elastic strength trainin when you are on steroids, and you need to if you want to be your best. But steroids will increase your explosive strength, elastic strength, and any of the other 50 strengths you can name, automatically over a one year peroid more then any amount of training without steroids. Then you train for quickness, agility, power, speed, elastic quickness, ect, ect, with the drugs. You don't just say oh I can lift heavy therefor I can forget about every other aspect of the game. I am not saying that.

No matter how much you can lift, or how skilled you are, steroids are going to increase the strength of muscles and tendons in your body that cannot even be trained directly to a point that will give you such an edge. Of course you will train directly with a lot of different types of training, while on the drugs weights, plyometrics, overspeed, elastic band training, olympic lifting, ballistic training, sprint specific training, athletic weighted skill movements, whatever it is steroids will increase that type of strength by sometimes 100%, but its usually around 40%. And it isn't about natural skill these days. Nobody is going to have a prayer against naturally skilled people on these performance enhancing drugs. 

DONT YOU GET IT? THE REASON WHY YOU SEE SO MANY GUYS IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL RUNNING 4.4 OR FASTER THEN YOU DID 30 YEARS AGO IS BECAUSE SO MANY MORE ARE TAKING PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS. And they were taking a lot of steroids even 30 years ago. Nowadays you can get real GH for 130$ per month!!! That was not available back then, this is one of the reasons for the huge jump in performance. 

If someone has ****ty technique they are never going to be able to run as fast as they could with perfect technique. If they are really fat, they are never going to run as fast as they could if they lost nearly all the fat on their body. If someone is not on steroids and other drugs they will never be as quick as they would if they did do the steroids, (of course it would have to be the perfect drugs for them, not just any random form of steroids) if they had perfect technique before the steroids, and perfect technique after. 

And I wasn't bashing anyone for being natural. 

Was Ben Johnson on steroids? Yes. What was his time before 10.9. After steroids? 9.78. Was Tim Montgomery on steroids? Yes. His best time before steroids? Well in 1994 he ran a 10.6 100M, and in 1993 he ran a wind aided 10.45 wich is equal to a 10.6. And then he started steroids and boom he was running a 9.9. Was Carl Lewis on steroids? According to an article on this forum he was not just on steroids but also GH, Insulin , and some other stuff since 1984! And did he get faster after he started using all this stuff? Of course why the hell else would he take it?

And what happened the last time a #1 in the world sprinter played in the NFL? Well that would be Bob Hayes and he didn't play college ball but played in the Pro Bowl in his second year in the league. 

This is really hard for you guys to accept isn't it? 

So Ronny the Bull since your a Canadian, don't you think your juicehead Ben Johnson was a joke running a 10.9 before steroids? Or would that qualify as gifted? 
I don't know if you can turn any joke into a world class athlete. You might be able to if you can read 3 lines above this one. 

Nobody thinks bodyuilding and powerlifting are much more then drug sports. Why should Football and olympic track be considered anything more? Sure it takes some natural skill to make it to the top but obviously not much more if the right perfomance enhancing drugs are used, and there is world class coaching. Victor Balco said the olympic games was a total fraud, I agree 100%. 

Go see what it looked like at the 1936 Olympics. HELL THEY HAD TESTOSTERONE (INJECTABLE) EVEN BACK THEN!!!

And skill was injected into every world class sprinter male and femal of the past 20 years. (drugs) 

Jesus Christ you would probably have to look at the 1928 Olympics to see what world class athletes would be like without the steroids...and you better bet your ass steroids existed in 1932, testosterone in fact did ladies and gentlemen. 

Or maybe I should just say ladies...Just kidding LOL

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## RoNNy THe BuLL

As I mentioned before...

The drugs will only ASSIST in the recovery of the skill training. You can't juice it up and not do anything and have your endurance, power or muscle size increase by any percentage.

You bring up facts that no one opposed? Everyone knew Ben Johnson juiced it, everyone knew juice was around back in the day, what's your point? The point WE'RE trying to make is that you can't substitute athleticism for steroids . 

You cannot inject speed, agility, strength or power into anyone. You can only assist in their training to help them "improve" what they already have.

Save your history lesson for someone who asked.

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

Cool, now go shoot some roids in your ass and see if you can make your low level Canadian girls soccer team.

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## RoNNy THe BuLL

> Cool, now go shoot some roids in your ass and see if you can make your low level Canadian girls soccer team.


*yawn*

How old are you....kid?

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## RoNNy THe BuLL

Wait, here's your profile.


Birthday:
February 14, 1978
Biography:
Not much to say
Location:
Massachussetts
Interests:
Money,whores
Occupation:
*unemployed*
Training Experience:
12 years
Bodybuilding Knowledge:
*Not very advanced...*
Cycle Experience:
*none*
Bodybuilding Competitions:
*none*


Riiiiiiight. Keep on truckin' brotha. One day you'll make sense.

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

The drugs literally are creating these athletes nothing else. You will never get it.

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## Dude-Man

> Cool, now go shoot some roids in your ass and see if you can make your low level Canadian girls soccer team.


seeing as how you're in mass, how about we have a little meeting and talk this situation over? I'd love to work out with you, i mean, god, at 3% bodyfat, and lifting that much weight.. at that light.. you're really something

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

Man I gave you guys some really good information...

Its too hard to believe I know.

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

Ok Chris Adams, I am here in Boston getting ready for surgery on my knee wich I blew out partly because I was competing in a sport that was not a level playing field. I am here to get a really good doctor because my insurance wouldn't cover a good doctor in the area I live. And I am paying cash for it. Maybe that is why I am a little pissed off about the whole thing.

Here is how I got down to 3% bodyfat;

I would wake up in the morning after I got my 10 hours of sleep, and then eat my first meal; 1/2 cup oatmeal, 40 grams of whey protien, an apple, and 1 TBSP of Flaxseed oil. 

Then I would make sure I got to the gym and trained with weights exactly 3 hours after I first woke up. Your body is at its energy peak 3 hrs. and 11 hrs after wakeup. And preferable gym workout would start 2 hours after first meal.

The workout would be something like; (this one the first workout of the week for this bodypart, the second workout of the week would contain sets 3 in the 3-4 rep range with 3 minutes rest followed by 4-6 sets of 10 with 1 min rest between sets. This was more for mass, the first workout of the week was more the strength workout. There was an advanced periodization program that I followed at different phases developed by none other then Tudor Bompa, it really increased my strength like crazy! 

5 sets of 3 reps in Bent Rows (with 3 minutes rest between sets) 
3 sets of 6 reps shrugs (don't go too heavy or you can tear a bicep easily)
3 sets of 4 reps seated Lat pulldowns 
4 sets of 6 Lateral DB raises, 1 minute rest between sets
3 sets of 6 Bent Lateral DB raises 1 minute rest between sets

Then I would go home and eat my post workout meal of; (meal #2) 
6 oz. red meat, and 20 grams of whey protien with 1 TBSP olive oil, two medium sweet potatoes, and 1 cup of mixed frozen vegetables

Then my 3rd meal would be a Meal Replacement powder with around 11 grams of complex carbs, 40 grams of protien and less then 6 grams of sugar, with 1 TBSP of flaxseed oil. 

Usually I would start my speed/football training sometime after this meal. (at least 1 1/2 hours, after) 
Then the next meal #4 would be; 1/2 cup oatmeal, 6 oz red meat, 1 TBSP of oil and 20 grams whey protien with a vegetable salad containing 6 different types of vegetables.

Then at least 2 hours after eating, I would do my PM weight session wich would be something like;
5 sets of 3-4 Squats 
3 sets of 6 Stiff leg Partial deadlifts (lower the bar to one inch below bottom of patella tendon)
4 sets of 10 1/3 front squats (use as much weight as possible) 
Then 4 sets of 6 seated leg curls
All above with 3 minutes rest.
Then I would do side bends with really heavy weights 6 sets of 10 1 minute rest
Then I would have my 5th meal wich would be;
2 medium sweet potatoes, 6 oz red meat, 20 grams of whey protien with 1 tbsp of safflower oil, and a cup of frozen vegetables. 

Then my last meal would be 10 oz red meat with stir fried vegetables and as close to zero carbs as possible. Then I would go right to sleep. 
Supplements I was using daily ; Creatine 5g (after last workout with protien and vanadyle/chromium supplement) , HMB 4 grams, divided doses every 4 hours to stay in system all waking hours. Vanadyl Sulfate(before 3 of the meals), magnesium 300 mg 4x per day, Glutamine 2grams 6x day with meals, NAC 1 in morning one at night, Methoxyflavone/Ecydosterone 3x per day with meal containing red meat and protien powder. And I would usually take a synephrine supplement before first workout and before speed training. I always made sure I drank 120 oz. water every day wether training or not. I always made sure I never went more then 3 hours without protien, if the days plans were changed. (used MRBs)
I was doing about 2-4 hours of sprinting, and speed training, (sprint specific elastic band training, ballistics, plyometrics, overspeed sprints, weighted agilities and sprints, and football agility drills and catching 5 days per week. Usually I spent around 2 1/2 hours just practicing catching, so that wasn't really that intense. But this would be substituted for cardio, or if you are into it you could do plyometrics, and ballistics for 40 minutes 3x per week and then a half hour cardio at the end)

So believe it or not the guy who gave me this program won a state title in Natural bodybuilding and was a previous training partner of Aaron Baker. And he currently goes to my gym believe it or not... I might have to get him after you guys if you don't start posting SOME useful information.

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## Mr. Gottabejuiced

And this diet I believe will work for anyone if they can stand to follow it. Its a bitch. Sometimes your muscles will get flat, depleted of carbs, and you will have to eat everything in sight for a couple days just to fill them out with carbs. 

This time I am just going use dextrose and see how that fills them out when they get depleted. 

The sweet potatoes are kind of essential because they are a complex carb, and they are similiar to sugar, or at least it seems to quench a sweet tooth. If you are on this diet long enouph and follow it strictly enouph they start to taste like candy after a couple months.

Isn't that sick?

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## Dude-Man

I'm a medical student at BU. tell me when your surgery is and what hospital and i'll make a request to be an attending. I'll sit in. It'll be fun!




> Ok Chris Adams, I am here in Boston getting ready for surgery on my knee wich I blew out partly because I was competing in a sport that was not a level playing field. I am here to get a really good doctor because my insurance wouldn't cover a good doctor in the area I live. And I am paying cash for it. Maybe that is why I am a little pissed off about the whole thing.
> 
> Here is how I got down to 3% bodyfat;
> 
> I would wake up in the morning after I got my 10 hours of sleep, and then eat my first meal; 1/2 cup oatmeal, 40 grams of whey protien, an apple, and 1 TBSP of Flaxseed oil. 
> 
> Then I would make sure I got to the gym and trained with weights exactly 3 hours after I first woke up. Your body is at its energy peak 3 hrs. and 11 hrs after wakeup. And preferable gym workout would start 2 hours after first meal.
> 
> The workout would be something like; (this one the first workout of the week for this bodypart, the second workout of the week would contain sets 3 in the 3-4 rep range with 3 minutes rest followed by 4-6 sets of 10 with 1 min rest between sets. This was more for mass, the first workout of the week was more the strength workout. There was an advanced periodization program that I followed at different phases developed by none other then Tudor Bompa, it really increased my strength like crazy! 
> ...

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## LB55blitz

> Umm because football is about being better then everyone on the field. Yes big squats and lifts help you but its not about your lifts its about how you play the game.


yes i know, thats what i was trying to prove by saying this

lifts are just a part of it, there is technique and intensity and i believe that is the key

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## skribbble

> Ok Chris Adams, I am here in Boston getting ready for surgery on my knee wich I blew out partly because I was competing in a sport that was not a level playing field. I am here to get a really good doctor because my insurance wouldn't cover a good doctor in the area I live. And I am paying cash for it. Maybe that is why I am a little pissed off about the whole thing.
> 
> Here is how I got down to 3% bodyfat;
> 
> I would wake up in the morning after I got my 10 hours of sleep, and then eat my first meal; 1/2 cup oatmeal, 40 grams of whey protien, an apple, and 1 TBSP of Flaxseed oil. 
> 
> Then I would make sure I got to the gym and trained with weights exactly 3 hours after I first woke up. Your body is at its energy peak 3 hrs. and 11 hrs after wakeup. And preferable gym workout would start 2 hours after first meal.
> 
> The workout would be something like; (this one the first workout of the week for this bodypart, the second workout of the week would contain sets 3 in the 3-4 rep range with 3 minutes rest followed by 4-6 sets of 10 with 1 min rest between sets. This was more for mass, the first workout of the week was more the strength workout. There was an advanced periodization program that I followed at different phases developed by none other then Tudor Bompa, it really increased my strength like crazy! 
> ...


He seems dedicated to his sport. reminds me of myself actually. I dont think he is trying to bash anything here just putting a point on how steroids effect ability to perform. Ive enjoyed the information he shared so far as he does bring up logical points and i would have to agree with him.

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## skribbble

> You cannot inject speed, agility, strength or power into anyone. You can only assist in their training to help them "improve" what they already have.


He hasnt said that. All the people athletes he has brought into the arguement were good athletes to begin with. Times of 10.6 in the 100m is a fast time. So of course a fast time like that the person is obviously already doing amounts of speed, agility, and strength workouts. So when he roids up and continues the workouts, his results are going to be alot better. The nfl players he has also brought into the arguement, of course in highschool and stuff they were good players, but once they got on gear it was easier for them to make gains and become more explosive and fast just becuase they were mostly likely already doing similar stuff before gear. ALso im sure there training programs were constantly evolving and becoming more advanced which would only help there gains taht much more. Ive seen it first hand, i had a friend that ran a 4.8, then took winstrol and didnt do any speed training, only continued lifting and he ran a 4.5 the last week of his cycle. Of course he was a tard and blew his knee out during fball season because he took winny only but still the truth of the matter is that he did NO SPEED WORK and increased from a 4.8 to a high 4.5 just by roiding up and continued lifting.

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