# STEROIDS FORUM > ANABOLIC STEROIDS - QUESTIONS & ANSWERS > EDUCATIONAL THREADS >  Sustanon and why you shouldnt use it

## The Iron Game

Not all test was created equal. Test is Test is Test. As much as this is true we are speaking about raw test or de esterified test. We are not talking about ester bound test. 

The purpose when injecting is to do so to keep blood plasma levels as stable and at peak for as long as possible, now we cannot do this with sustanon unless it is injected every other day. If I were to draw a graph on the time release of sustanon it would have Highs & Lows (Ups & Downs). Now the average newbie does not wish to inject on an every other day basis and he certainly doesnt wish to be using that much test for a first or second cycle either. In order to keep blood plasma levels stable and reach a peak as quickly as possible you would have to go about front loading. Again something that should not really be done with sustanon.

I have read sustanon causes less water retention, sustanon causes less chance of getting gyno and less sides overall. This is not true one bit.

250mgs of sust or 250mgs of enanthate ?

Enanthate contains more raw test than the mixture in sust.

Did I forget to mention the sust flu? The long build up of this? The long duration it takes to leave the body due to the decanoate ester? 


Now before I start writing a book on this I want a serious discussion with all you sust lovers  :Big Grin: 

Peace

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## JRMY2711

HEY GAME IM RIGHT WITH YOU ON THAT MY BOY AT HOME TOLD ME THAT SUST WAS ONE OF THE CLEANEST AS SO I STARTED STUDYING ON IT AND I FOUND ONE SITE THAT SHOWED HOW BAD SUST WAS. SAID IT CAN CAUSE NASEA DIAREA HIGH FEVER AND ALL KINDS OF OTHER STUFF DEFFINITLY TURNED MY HEAD ON THAT. SO IM GOING TO FIND ME A DIFFERENT STACK. 
HEY ALSO THANKS FOR THE INFO AND IF I REMEMBER THAT SITE I WILL COME BACK AND POST IT FOR YOU

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## bigtraps

So are you saying go with enethante, when using test?

Yes i do agree that sus is bad for water retention.. atleast for me anyways..

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## The Iron Game

I am saying enanthate /cypionate (which are almost identical but for one carbon atom) should be used because you do not have to worry on the timing/frequency of injections. Because you can front load it to start seeing higher peak blood plasma levels reached much quicker. I cringe everytime I read someone is doing 250mgs of sustanon a week because prop and phenly prop should be shot much more frequently than once a week.

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## JRMY2711

HERE IS THE SYMPTOMS I READ FOR SUST THE OTHER DAY.

cases of impotence, chronic priapism, epididymitis, inhibition of testicular function, oligospermia, and bladder irritability. Some people that take sostanon 250 have reported "flu like" symptoms as well. These symptoms include a higher than normal fever, stomach aches, being tired, etc.

I FOUND THIS AT: 

http://www.anabolex.com 

it was under drug profiles

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## The Iron Game

JRMY2711, thanks for looking that up. Dont get me wrong any form of test can cause those symptoms but in 9 out of 10 cases people will generally feel the flu when using this over any other esterified test (if succesptible to this side effect)

On another note, dont get me wrong I think sust does have its uses but not in the average newbie cycle.

Peace

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## Billy Boy

Don,t want to piss on anyones fire but surely we could all find lists of negatives for each particular AAS.

The side effects depend on each person using them as we all know even with convential drugs some respond well some do not.I know of people who have used Sust for years and never fault it and one guy who hates the stuff.

I,m not dismissing what you guys are saying just lets not write off everything just from what we read b,c someone has had some benign side effects

After all if it works for you and you are happy with it why change ?

JMO guys and good to see you around IG

Billy

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## juiceon

I agree that unbound test is the same, but since sust has four different esters, and each releases at a different time, the four "peaks" give the user a more consistent level of unbound test over the same/given period of time. Since the test is released over time (as opposed to having one peak), there is no flood of test for conversion to a flood of estrogen, which causes the water and fat retention with enanthate . With something like enanthate, which has one ester type bound to all test, there is only ONE peak over the same period of time - the time it takes the ester to break free. Does enanthate magically release its esters at a steady rate? With enanthate, each ester bound test is the same X = X = X . . . . so what happens to one, happens to all.

It's like saying between now and 14 days from now we are going to start at 0 and end at 0. With enanthate (for eg.) we will hit the top of the scale (let's say 10) once. With sust., we will hit the top of the scale (relatively speaking I would put it at a 7.5 based on experience with the two) four times. Hitting the top 4 times over the same period of time is certainly more consistent than hitting it only once.

Don't get me wrong, I like enanthate and the other straight tests too (actually test depot the best, which has two different esters and is in that respect somewhat similar to sust.) but I avoid the straight tests when I want to avoid getting the pumpkin head look or putting on fat. Regardless of a scientific analysis, that's just how it is for me. You could call one formula red and the other formula blue, and after one cycle of each I would tell you that one caused me to hold more water, gain fat, and show gyno symptoms than the other.

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## juiceon

> _Originally posted by Billy Boy_ 
> *Don,t want to piss on anyones fire but surely we could all find lists of negatives for each particular AAS.
> 
> The side effects depend on each person using them as we all know even with convential drugs some respond well some do not.I know of people who have used Sust for years and never fault it and one guy who hates the stuff.
> 
> I,m not dismissing what you guys are saying just lets not write off everything just from what we read b,c someone has had some benign side effects
> 
> After all if it works for you and you are happy with it why change ?
> 
> ...


Now that I have to agree with wholehearedly.

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## The Iron Game

Hey Billy Boy, hows tricks and which part of the UK mate?

It is not so much of stepping on anyones feet. Of course you will find negative side effects with any steroid . And there is no doubt people get results off sust. And this is not from what I read. This is from a chemical/biological and scientific point of view. 

IMHO Unless someone is doing over 750mgs / wk of test then they should stay clear of sust.

Sustanon :

30mg testosterone propionate 
60mg testosterone phenylpropionate 
60mg testosterone isocaproate 
100mg testosterone decanoate 

Propionate should be shot every other day (daily still being better) and in the range of 50-100mgs

Phenylprop should be shot every 3rd day and in the range of 100 - 150mgs 

The other esters are a good combination. 

Sustanon was designed specifically for medical patients and for the infrequency of injections. It can do little favours to the newbie bodybuilder when compared to enanthate . 

I think I am either going to track down a graph to show blood plasma levels of enanthate compared to sust or will be busy creating one myself.

Peace

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## Billy Boy

Hi IG

When you get a graph of the blood plasma levels I,d be interested in seeing it.

As for which part of the UK South East bro near the coast

Billy

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## The Iron Game

> _Originally posted by juiceon_ 
> [B]I agree that unbound test is the same, but since sust has four different esters, and each releases at a different time, the four "peaks" give the user a more consistent level of unbound test over the same/given period of time. Since the test is released over time (as opposed to having one peak), there is no flood of test for conversion to a flood of estrogen, which causes the water and fat retention with enanthate.


No, no no no no, unfortunately this is not true. An increase in estrogen will result as a form of what ever test you are using. The aim of the cycle is to reach maximum blood plasma levels as quick as possible and continue this throughout the cycle until it is ended. Once you have say 500mgs of test flowing in your system (regardless of which ester you are using) then estrogen conversion is the same. But anyway that is not the point of this post, that will be a whole new topic on its own  :Big Grin:  That is what aromatase inhibitors are for. 

Ok I defintely need those graphs and then it will be much easier to see what happens when you inject 500mgs of sustanon compared to 500mgs of enanthate . 

I am not saying you are this person, but I am growing tired of people doing injustice to themselves and/or others by reading outdated information and then trying to justify it without fact or scientifical explanation.

You may get fat on enanthate but not on sustanon? No I cannot believe this for one minute without a possible explanation. Diet was different, other steroids were also used. Different amounts of estrogen reducers / blockers being used and so on. It is just not so. I myself have become ripped to shreds on enanthate and I know I can do it on sust as well. 9 out of 10 guys at the top all select test as a base for any cycle they do. I know this for a fact. By preventing the estrogen conversion you are preventing all estrogen related sides including gyno, female pattern fat distribution and so on. By following a clean diet and watching calorie intake you are preventing this fat.

BTW its great to be at another board where people discuss rather than flame.

Peace

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## juiceon

> _Originally posted by The Iron Game_ 
> *
> 
> An increase in estrogen will result as a form of what ever test you are using. The aim of the cycle is to reach maximum blood plasma levels as quick as possible and continue this throughout the cycle until it is ended. Once you have say 500mgs of test flowing in your system (regardless of which ester you are using) then estrogen conversion is the same. 
> 
> You may get fat on enanthate but not on sustanon ? No I cannot believe this for one minute without a possible explanation. Diet was different, other steroids were also used. Different amounts of estrogen reducers / blockers being used and so on. It is just not so. I myself have become ripped to shreds on enanthate and I know I can do it on sust as well. 9 out of 10 guys at the top all select test as a base for any cycle they do. I know this for a fact. By preventing the estrogen conversion you are preventing all estrogen related sides including gyno, female pattern fat distribution and so on. By following a clean diet and watching calorie intake you are preventing this fat.
> 
> BTW its great to be at another board where people discuss rather than flame.
> 
> Peace*


My question then is this: I have just started a cycle where I used 100 mgs. of straight phenyl prop. every 4 days for two weeks (I stacked this for the first two weeks with 15 mgs. of dbol ). There is no question that the prop. hit me right away (when test hits me hard, I get insomnia, horny as hell, and feel warm). OK, so at some point the pheyl prop/test becomes inactive - How long (from the day of injection) before the phenyl prop test has no effect?

In my case, I do not take sust. (when I take it) for the phenyl prop. alone. It is not an objective of mine to keep phenyl prop. active, so I don't inject sust. every 3-4 days. I use sust. for the combination of all four tests over a weeks period. The advent of anti-aeromatizers and estrogen blockers does not change the utility of sust. I personally am able to use less of these "blockers" with sust. than I am with enanthate. 

But more to the point, I enjoy getting jacked on sust. within a day of the shot, whether it be at the beginning, middle, or end of a cycle. For whatever the reason may be (and I have a feeling it has to do with receptor downgrade) I make significant gains throughout a long sust. cycle, and the pounds come on typically within days of the shot, whether it be at the beginning, middle, or end of the cycle. With enanthate, I just don't make quality gains after about week 5. So, consistent with your analysis, it may just be that the roller-coaster test levels of sust. are what keeps the receptors confused. In contrast, the persistent, constant level of test you get with enanthate leads to faster receptor downgrade.

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## The Iron Game

juiceon, before I write a book I want to know on which amount of sust you are talking about and how many times you inject it / week 



Something else I just found while looking for those graphs. Written by Stew Meat. Now I know this doesnt answer your question but you will understand when I get the time to explain all this in fine detail. Once again I am not saying sustanon should not be used period, it does have its uses. Just not in the newbie 250mgs or 500mgs / wk of test cycle.

Peace

-------

The problem with Sustonon/Omnas is that they contain both long and short esters. If you injected only a long ester such as isocaparate, there woudl be a steady release from the time of injection and throughout the lifespan of the ester... However, you inject omna or sustonon,, which contain various esters.... you get bouncing hormone levels in a "W" fashion. The prop will inflate your hormone levels for 2 days then it drops. You inject again, and the levels shoot up, then trough 2 days later. Even though it contains 250mg of testosterone , that testosterone is bound by esters. It will take at least 4 weeks before most of the esters can be broken down. That means that that 500mg/wk injection can be divided by 4 (roughly) and yeild an average of 125mg per week... So the first week you start an Omna/Sust cycle, you are only getting a very small amout of testosterone that is mostly going to be from the prop because the rest is bound by long acting esters. So for example, on Monday, you may have 30mg circulating, unbound test, Tuesday 25mg circulating, Wednesday 20mg circulating, Thursday 10mg circulating, Then Friday after another injection, 35mg circulating... Up and down... Then eventually, after 5-6weeks, levels of the long releasing esters will accumilate and at 8 weeks when you stop your cycle, you have a moderately high level of androgens in your system that may take months to return to normal. You have no idea when exactly to start clomid therapy... If Omna is injected EOD, it is more effective but one woudl eventually accumilate an extremely high level of testosterone which will have an indefinate lifespan in the body. 

However, enthanate is started on Monday and Friday and an even flow/release of hormone is acheived. The life of Enthanate is 10 days at 200mg/wk or 14 days at 600mg/wk... Enthanate is very predictable and clomid therapy can start 1.5-2 weeks after the last injection. This is why you don't see many experienced users use Sustonon or Omna, they use enthanate/cypionate or prop...... You will see better results. 

As you may have guessed, I'm not a fan of Omna/Sust... and the markup on sustonon is unbelieveable.... the reason, newbies think that 4 esters are better than one. Some think that there are seperate receptors for each ester. So it sells... so sources are free to jack up the prices and profit from people's lack of education of steroids . 

You will not get more bloated from one ester as opposed to another and you will NOT see better gains from one ester over another. It is only a matter of the amount of testosterone in your system. One 1400mg injection of enthanate is like injecting 100mg of pure testosterone per day, but one 1400mg injection of propinate is like injecting 500mg per day of pure testosterone. Enthate takes 2 weeks to clear and propinate takes 3 days to clear. But it the EXACT same testosterone. You will NOT experience difference in gains with one ester as opposed to another just as one bottle of distilled water is not different from another brand. Its all the same thing. The only differences lies within release times. 

It does not depend on "who you are." One person will NOT respond better to any one particular ester.

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## juiceon

IG - for simplicity, my sust. cycles go 750 mg. for week 1 and 500 mg. for each following week. Cycle lengths vary but assume I use sust. for 8 weeks total. 

FYI - if this matters at all - on my last "big" cycle I used 500 mg. of depot test for the first two weeks, 500 mg. of sust for weeks 3-8, and 500 mg. of depot test for weeks 9 and 10. I did it like that because I do like the effects of enanthate , but I just don't gain persistently on it. That cycle also included 400 mgs. of deca /week for the whole 10 weeks, as well as dbol at varying dosages, and I even used 500 mgs. of primo depot for one week (just 5 vials I had lying around and nothing better to do with), and of course, during weeks 6 and 7 your favorite HCG .  :Wink:

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## The Iron Game

> _Originally posted by juiceon_ 
> *and of course, during weeks 6 and 7 your favorite HCG . *


Oi, dont even get me started  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## bad brains

Good post game, good to see you on other boards also..........

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## CYCLEON

I knew it would be just a matter of time before IG started beating this horse  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  - look bottom line is that sust is ok if u got it but;

1. overpriced vs similar results with single ester
2. needs to be injected EOD or ETD to get the benefit of the prop
3. is harder to control for front loading, which most experienced users are doing now
4. does seem to be slightly more likely to give u the flu than any single ester.
5. see #1 again

If you need a multi ester, ud be better off with aratest IMO and inject EOD or ETD.

all that said - a newbie can still take 375mg of sust and shoot it 1x per week and still gain 20lbs if they eat/train right. its just that maybe they could have gained 25lbs instead.

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## juiceon

> _Originally posted by juiceon_ 
> *IG - for simplicity, my sust. cycles go 750 mg. for week 1 and 500 mg. for each following week. Cycle lengths vary but assume I use sust. for 8 weeks total. 
> 
> *


Forgot to add - all in one injection one time per week.

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## The Iron Game

Cycleon, it is far from a dead horse. Look around, look all over the net and you will come to this conclusion. 

And those graphs will be posted within a few days, gotta make them myself

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## CYCLEON

id certainly like to see them - only stewmeat hates sust more than u  :Stick Out Tongue:  

personally, ive used it with good results but now i like to do prop or go with eth myself

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## jssmc

I hear all the things you guys are saying and they may be true in some cases, but at least not for me and my bro. Our first cycle was sus at 500mg/wk for 8 weeks. I gained 15 pounds and my strength gains were freaking crazy. Water retention was not a problem and I felt fucking awesome. I liked it so much that now I'm stacking it with equipoise for 12 weeks. Anyway, that's is my little story.
Go sustanon !
jssmc

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## zion

Fu( there is ups and downs to every AS.. give it up buddy! What is this propraganda shiet! How do u figure that sustanon retains water and aromatizes?? where is this scientific proof?? i think you are speaking from personal experiences or hearsay! Seriously, these type of threads are so fuct, cuz when a newbie comes on asking what should i take for a first cycle.. everyone jumps the gun and says sustanon and deca ! This thread should be erased, this is misdirecting for newbies!

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## CYCLEON

zion - no room on this thread for flames, least of all for IG who has been in the game for quite awhile. Id like very much to see your opinion on results or theories or benefit from your wealth of experience but name calling isnt warranted.  :Embarrassment:

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## The Iron Game

> _Originally posted by zion_ 
> *Fu.. give it up buddy! What is this propraganda shiet! 
> *


*

you are a funny guy, im sure you are going to get on very well here. 






cuz when a newbie comes on asking what should i take for a first cycle.. everyone jumps the gun and says sustanon and deca! This thread should be erased, this is misdirecting for newbies!


*and you tell me im speaking from hearsay, a joke if ever I saw one. 

tell me how much you know about deca  :Embarrassment: 

and please tell me what makes sustanon any safer than any other form of esterified test apart from the fact that on an mg to mg basis it contains less testosterone than any other. 

and a little advice, if you want to make friends or be welcomed on any board on the net, I would suggest changing your attitude from the typical 15 year old who hangs at yahoo chat all day while at school and more towards a mature person who can make conversation.

I would go on but without a doubt in my mind the only reason you will even show up on this thread anymore is to appologise or to swear some more because you dont know the answers to the questions put forward. So a good day to yourself and look forward to you educating me

Thanks Cycleon  :Smilie:

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## zion

You're right, i won't be swearing anymore on this thread cuz, its bullshiet! I don't care how long you been juicing for or how much time you sit in front of the monitor. But, i want to hear why from the big and high almighty IG why all the other tests don't aromatize like sustanon (from which you claim) ... where is your proof? 

And I didn't see any name calling in my reply so Cycleon stay out of it!! IG is an adult, he can handle is own beef! 

And IG i know just as much as you, since the same information that is available to all of us in books and the net is the same!! So don't front like you know your shiet and like you wrote the scriptures of anabolic steroids ... i do plenty of research and have been for a long ass time, in books and on the net and all the info is the same. All the threads are the same... elite, anabolex, fitnessboard, etc.. same shiet, different smell!

I ain't hear to start beef but, when i see a title of a thread saying "why NOT to use sustanon" ... its just bullshiet cuz, your basically dictating newbies and spreading your OWN propaganda... so don't you think i will run and hide from my replies cuz i won't, i'm a man and i can stand on my feet and handle my beefs.

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## zion

And by the way... how come you didn't post this thread on elite, prove me wrong if i'm wrong please but, i did a search on your posts and this one didn't come up! I think you would lose your mod image if you were to post one like this! Alot of knowledgable brothers over there would get you on this one, I have been on elite for a long time and have seen you there since the days i started loggin on (which was over a year agao) and i remember you asking questions just like the rest of us, so i just don't understand where you have the right to sit on your high horse and spread this bullshiet?!?  :Confused:

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## The Iron Game

> _Originally posted by zion_ 
> [B]IG why all the other tests don't aromatize like sustanon (from which you claim) ... where is your proof?


Please tell me where in this thread I have stated other tests do not aromatise like sustanon ? Stop making things up!





> And IG i know just as much as you, since the same information that is available to all of us in books and the net is the same!!


Please state where in this thread I said I knew more than you? Stop making things up! 





> i do plenty of research and have been for a long ass time, in books and on the net and all the info is the same.


FYI most information on the web is outdated and wrong

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## The Iron Game

> _Originally posted by zion_ 
> *And by the way... how come you didn't post this thread on elite*


You have just gone against everything in your other posts?

Why I didnt post this on elite?

Well do a search and you will actually see I have in other posts.

And actually 90% of the veterans on elite as well as bio chem majors, chemists and so on all agree.

Go start a fight some where else. I dont like your maturity level one bit but I have dealt with enough people in my time. I can handle anything you throw at me without the need to resort to name calling.

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## The Iron Game

> _Originally posted by zion_ 
> *
> And IG i know just as much as you, since the same information that is available to all of us in books and the net is the same!!*


Please tell me how much raw testosterone is in 250mgs of sustanon ?

I will give you how ever many days you need. Should give you time to find a chemist some where.
 :Smilie:

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## zion

> _Originally posted by The Iron Game_ 
> *
> I have read sustanon causes less water retention, sustanon causes less chance of getting gyno and less sides overall. This is not true one bit.
> 
> Peace*


Stop being a fool and explain! Read Read dawg!

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## zion

> _Originally posted by The Iron Game_ 
> *
> 
> FYI most information on the web is outdated and wrong*


So are you saying you don't use the net for information?? Hmm... i would find that hard to believe!

And where is the immaturity in my replies, i think you are on the same maturity level as me if you keep replying like so... dawg, if you gonna reply, reply with some proof and educate me futher, all you replies are directly to me and contain no arguments on the matter that we are supposed to be discussing. 

And please do post the exact thread with the title of at elite fitness.

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## zion

> _Originally posted by The Iron Game_ 
> *
> 
> 
> tell me how much you know about deca 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Are you not implying that you know more about deca than me... sounds like it to me and with this thread, sounds to me like you think you know more than anyone by spreading your own propraganda, i think you just speaking on personal experiences dawg.

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## The Iron Game

Zion you can interpret my post/s in which ever manner you like. 10 years ago and even to this day everyone says use sustanon its safer, it causes less water retention, there is less chance of gyno, it has 4 'different tests in it' (esters) and so its more effective. The fact remains that it is no more safe than any other form of test, it takes longer to build up to reach levels required and so on. So just because everyone says to use sust I will not nor will I recommend it to newbies. I have if you read correctly in my post said it does have its uses and the more advanced user could benefit from it. Enanthate builds up faster, is in and out of the system faster and is as safe as sustanon. So no, I see no reason why I will recommend a newbie to use sust. The fact of your name calling and your first post says to me enough of what I need to know to understand how 'mature' you really are.

This is a discussion board where topics are discussed and I did not say I dont or didnt get my information from the internet, but I know the difference between documented and scientific fact over what my friend told me. 

I will not argue or even bother replying to your posts further, just to add the graphs when I get a chance of doing them. It seems you read a post, believe you understand the message and then try and put words in other peoples mouths. Over 90% of what you have stated I said isnt even so. 

To all others who read this appologies as I dont normally lower myself like I have done.

Peace

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## CYCLEON

see thats better  :Big Grin:  

well one reason IG doesnt post this on elite is cause Stewmeat (another Mod) always beats him to it. There are several otehr Sust haters there as well. Go post a thread entitled "Why I love Sust" and see if you dont get 1/2 saying "yeah!" and most of the vets blowing ur doors off.  :Wink:  i think the both of you should try to prove ur points with some eveidence or studies. Id certainly like furtherance on this issue, tho i have my own opinions.

He is also correct that much of the information that u can read in WAR and several other books is now outdated. doesnt mean it wasnt good stuff and its a great place to start but as always the science of BB continues. To give an example, just in the last year alone the theories on the optimal methods of DNP supplementation have changed i cant even tell u how many times - from a CKD to a 33/33/33 now to a 50/30/30 diet - now instead of carb depleting the first few days, you shouldnt, and go high carbs through out the cycle - instead of short, intense cycles, people are trying long ones - to supp T3 or not and when - now we have regular and crystal - and etc. point is continued review makes it better - and im sure, like u said IG does get quite a bit of info from the net, including these boards - he aslo has a wealth of his own experience to draw on. 

No matter what tho, vets arent always correct and fight very contentiously on certain issues - for example to use or not to use deca - some like it some dont thats opinion - the pharmacology of sust however can be clearly and objectively set forth and opinions can be made on there own

BTW:


> Please tell me how much raw testosterone is in 250mgs of sustanon?


ooh, ooh, i know, i know, pick me, pick me  :Big Grin:  - are we talking about "regular" or chinaman special? and is that meant to imply 250mg of raw powder or 1ml @250mg Sust?  :Wink:

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## Mike

NO FUCKING WAY AM I LISTENING TO THIS SHIT

I stayed out of this post for a while because I thought it was really interesting to read the discussion - the mature and intelectual conversion of thoughts and ideas - but it is a far different thing to watch you (Zion) come on here like some raving fucking lunatic putting your mouth where it really should not belong. I appreciate ALL members opinions and love to hear a good conversation based on intelect but you conduct yourself in such a juvenile manner it digusts me. If you have an opinion that is backed up scientifically and you are truly confident in it you shouldnt have to go calling names and being a bitch. That IS NOT how it's done - Iron has more than paid his dues as far as I am concerned and he has earned the right to debate issues in a more respectful, mature, intelectual manner - You know - I welcome EVERYONE that comes on here and I almost NEVER flame anyone but you fucked up bud and I won't sit here and listen to your bullshit - you start debating this maturely or don't come around......

If you have some personal vendetta with IG that's fine by me - but email him - I dont care to read this shit here

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## Billy Boy

IG thats a great post bro and is very interesting I enjoy reading things like this great job and whether you agree with it or not you should have an open mind to all aspects of AAS

Zion I think Mike has said what everyone on the board thinks don,t be a jackass everyone shows each other respect and you show none.If you want to conduct yourself in that manner I,ll give you some site names where they speacialize in that sort of behaviour.

Billy

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## tuff

Why do you guys think stroids are illegal? When any drug is miss used it will cause negative effects. I use sus250 and have never had a problem and only go with 500mg a week, so your thought on it not being used to its fullest at less then 750mg is inaccurate. You can point the "bad roid" finger at any of the roids on the market but side effects are going to go with the person, their body, and how much they use. oh no, some people get sick while they are on sus250, well don't do it then. What about the people in this world that get parralized from injecting, so i guess that the drugs that they use are pretty bad, by your guys thoughts. Think about that.

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## The Iron Game

tuff, you fail to read the post accurately. Sustanon is no safer than enanthate or cypionate or propionate or phenylpropionate. It is no sager period! 

It takes longer to see results, it takes longer to leave the system. 

What part of this post is failing to be understood  :Frown:

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## The Iron Game

btw of course you will get results with sust, no one is disputing this. but dont be swayed by my friend said sust was safer or I read sust was safer.

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## jssmc

I'm curious to see what Mike has to say on the subject. So how bout it Mike, to sauce or not to sauce, that is the question.
jssmc

----------


## Mike

My opinion is simple - the points he has made I can't dispute with - the things I have heard bout sus causing less water retention is BS, and the half life of phenyl would dictate multiple shots as said by IG.....so if you're asking if I agree with that post he made.....sure I would rather just do 250mgs of En. over 250 of sust. - It's a silly notion that everyone has that 250mgs of 4 tests is better than one JUST based on having a multitude of tests......BUT if you're asking if I like sus or if I think it has benefits - no question. Have you used sus? Have you had gains on it? That one is a no brainer - of course it works - but would I rather have test over say 250mg of cyp.? Nope

----------


## jssmc

Thanks for all the info guys. This post was very informative and helpful. I like the info that was given. Good job iron game!
jssmc

----------


## choice

I am on a 10 week cycle of 500mg Testosterona IV(same as Sust blend), 600mg of deca , and weeks 1-5 at 50mg of dbol . I am currently taking my shots once a week, all on the same day. Would you recommend me breaking this down into ETD or twice a week?

Thanks

----------


## The Iron Game

> _Originally posted by choice_ 
> *I am on a 10 week cycle of 500mg Testosterona IV(same as Sust blend), 600mg of deca , and weeks 1-5 at 50mg of dbol . I am currently taking my shots once a week, all on the same day. Would you recommend me breaking this down into ETD or twice a week?
> 
> Thanks*


That is the exact problem with sust, due to the 4 different esters it needs to be shot more frequently to reap most benefit. So in answer to your question twice a week is better than once a week. For the deca you can get away with once a week but twice a day would be better, once every 5 days being the minimum I would suggest.

Peace

----------


## CYCLEON

just to clarify IG - thats twice a week with deca , but once is fine - sust should be done ETD, but 2x per week is ok as well.

----------


## tuff

How do you mean that sus takes longer to take effect? I started gaining wieght by the third week, how much sooner do you want? And in the time it stays in your system is almost the same time but the sus continues to work for up to 5 weeks after your last shot so you tell me how that is bad. I continued to gain for three weeks before i stopped and it has been two months off and i test clean when i get tested. Sus does more for me then i think a single test could, my argument is that it is no worse then any other test you can take, and with the fact that the different test in it release at different times makes it all the better cause you don't have to tapper.
peace out-
tuff

----------


## The Iron Game

tuff lets look at chemistry:

sustanon 4 esters: 

30mg testosterone propionate 
60mg testosterone phenylpropionate 
60mg testosterone isocaproate 
100mg testosterone decanoate 

total = 250mgs



enanthate 1 ester

250mgs


do you know from any amp readily available that sust has the least amount of raw test in? do you know this is because although there are faster acting esters the weight of the 100mgs of decanoate ester leaves it in such a way. 

The fact that this is the case leads on to the fact that then results are slower. The less raw test means the longer it takes to fully build up.

----------


## Compaq

I dont agree with you "The Iron Game" because I took sus and I got good gains. But thats just my oppinion. If you dont beleive me go to my last post (my pic sus for 8 weeks) and I look alright using sus "alone". So that proves that sus does work pretty well maybe not on all, but what roid works well on "EVERYONE". Maybe you should try taking sustanon and see if it works for you?

nO Flame. just my oppinion

B.F.S

BIGGER, FASTER, STRONGER!!

----------


## CYCLEON

> Maybe you should try taking sustanon and see if it works for you


BWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Yes IG, maybe you should try a little sust before knocking it - Hi, Im starting up a little "Donate All ur Testosterone (Sustanon ) for Irongame to Try it" (DATS IT) for short. Please send any spare amps or vials to the below address (no empties please), care of yours truly. Im dedicating my life to making sure that the less fortunate and poor souls out there still ignorant of the benefits of sust are attended to. Please give so that the great heathen massses can try it for themselves and be converted into true believers. I of course will carefully watch over this most important cashe of juice and treat it (dare i say) if it were my very own - anything for the cause.  :Big Grin:  

I think IG has had a bit of sust before Compaq, its not that hes saying it doesnt work - i think his point is that its overpriced and its many esters confuses newbies when they should be injectiong it more often to get the benefit of its short esters.

----------


## Compaq

LoLoLoLoLOLOLOLOLOLOL



B.F.S


BIGGER, FASTER, STRONGER!!!

----------


## Mike

Cycle....you're funny.......you're a bitch......but you're funny...LOL

Guys there is nothing to disagree with here - maybe I was lazy and didnt read it all - sorry - but I dont think he ever said sus didnt work - he just said it was not being used correctly usually and does not make logical sense molecularly - which I would agree with (kinda like test 400....but thats another story) yes it works - period - but is it acheiving the maximum of it's potential? No

----------


## CYCLEON

> Cycle....you're funny.......you're a bitch......but you're funny


but what is important is that im not _YOUR_ bitch! he..he..he



Arrrrrggggghhhhhhhh - actually had the exact amount of test (sans ester weight) in sustanon figured out (isocaproic acid is the difficult one) and the computer crashed. darn  :Frown:  well, anyway it was pretty close to the amount in ethanate (approx. 180mg/ml) - course lets not forget chinamans "enhanced sust" = +50mg of prop/ml  :Big Grin:

----------


## The Iron Game

Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

*who said sustanon does NOT work?*

It was not me and I have used it and got good results but I was stacking it with enanthate  :Big Grin: 

I DID NOT SAY SUSTANON DOES NOT WORK. I SAID DO NOT THINK ITS SAFER THAN ANY OTHER FORM OF TEST & YES IT DOES TAKE LONGER TO FULLY START WORKING. This is a fact. Of course the faster acting esters in there help to get some results quicker but they are not where the main stream gains will be coming from.

Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

----------


## The Iron Game

> _Originally posted by CYCLEON_ 
> * 
> 
> BWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
> 
> Yes IG, maybe you should try a little sust before knocking it - Hi, Im starting up a little "Donate All ur Testosterone (Sustanon ) for Irongame to Try it" (DATS IT) for short. Please send any spare amps or vials to the below address (no empties please), care of yours truly. 
> 
> I think IG has had a bit of sust before Compaq, its not that hes saying it doesnt work - i think his point is that its overpriced and its many esters confuses newbies when they should be injectiong it more often to get the benefit of its short esters.*




Muhahahahaha Thank You Sir  :Smilie:

----------


## Billy Boy

Ok all the funny comments aside and maybe I,m thick but how do you guys think that Sust is best used 

I,m going to do Sust at 500mg in 2 shots twice a week.Is this the most effective way of doing it or is there a better way I can utilize this compound.(I,m doing a sust/deca /d-bol cycle)

I,m gonna read the posts again so I may be editing this soon!!

Sorry IG if you have to repeat something you,ve already written

Billy

----------


## pureanger

Billy when im on sust thats the wasy i gemerally use it. but i to could be reading the post wrong. I happen to like sust and got good results but I was also stacking with a few different AS

----------


## Big Al

Billy,

To get the benefit of the four different esters it has been recommended to inject EOD however, thats close 750-100mg EW, so first cycle NO! But two injections per week and you'll get good results. Cycleon.......I might just call him Cleo easier to spell mentioned that I think!

I'm personnally swayed to Ethanate next time round, mainly cos I don't like waiting LOL.

Trust me bro, you gonna get gains and big ones! Lets face it as you age and the number of cycle's increase these Vet's need to chop and change and be more precise than a newbie, don't get me wrong newbie's gotta be safe, but as long as the course is well structured, the diet and training are spot on the guys gonna grow. Sus/Eth/Cyp/Prop/Depot/Susp etc etc its all good.

BA

----------


## Billy Boy

Thanks guys thats what I thought EOD I was like fuck you,ve got to be j/king I want to get bigger but hell within reason lol

Billy

----------


## Mike

This post has become WAY too funny.......knock it off.....

----------


## nev

hey i've been using sust now for 2 and a half weeks and i have put on 12 lbs. that's good and all but about five days ago i got the sust flu. i haven't gained much since i got sick mainly because my sleeping is all messed up. i am eating enough, but the flu is killing me. i was wondering how long it lasts and if there is anything i should or shouldn't do while having the sust flu

----------


## bex

I always use sus and the only sides i have found is about 20lb of gain.. But as you say people are diffrent.....

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## bluecollarskin

I come to this board for education....Period. It's because of People like this Zion guy is why a lot of other boards suck. Debating is great, imature pissing contests are a waste of time and bandwidth. Just my opinion..................BCS

----------


## The Iron Game

> _Originally posted by zion_ 
> *How do u figure that sustanon retains water and aromatizes?? where is this scientific proof??*


Oh my, I didnt read that part. No sustanon doesnt aromatise, doesnt convert to estrogen and dht. Its majic, because there are 4 esters it prevents this from happening. How could you even ask for scientific proof of this.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## The Iron Game

Why is everyone still complaining how their sustanon is hurting them how im not seeing results yet. Use something else.

----------


## The Iron Game

Injecting one amp a day, is what he is advising, this no one can dispute that you wont get results, but how about an amp of enanthate a day? We are updating the profiles page and going to modify certain steroid profiles.

----------


## Andy13

Sustanon 's esters can be averaged and a mean half life determined. This half life is shorter than TE.

----------


## The Iron Game

Andy, I dont believe so. If the half life was shorter than Te there would be greater raw test in sustanon over te. Not the case?

Then there is the unexplained mystery as to why people dont feel any major improvements on sust until between week 3-4 on 500mgs of sust/wk and between week 2-3 on te.

----------


## MeBoach

Great post. I tried eye pee's sust 300 and hated it. I got terrible soreness and sust. flu everytime, almost. The gains are impressive though.

----------


## Andy13

> _Originally posted by The Iron Game_ 
> *Andy, I dont believe so. If the half life was shorter than Te there would be greater raw test in sustanon over te. Not the case?
> 
> Then there is the unexplained mystery as to why people dont feel any major improvements on sust until between week 3-4 on 500mgs of sust/wk and between week 2-3 on te.*


The over-all "theoretical" half life is indeed shorter than TE. That's because the deconate ester doesn't amount to that much since the molecular weight of it's ester is so great. 

As to why guy's don't feel improvements until week 3-4 with sustanon... I don't know.. Probably because someone told them they wouldn't feel improvements until that time.. I'm serious!!! Suggestive psychology runs wild in BBing.

----------


## moto

gotta respect the knowledge from the people on this board you should not knock anyones opinions or facts. and if you do make shure you know what your writing when writing it . one persons attitude makes me want to puke and its not from sust flu it's from talking smack to a very knowledgeable person on this board. one bad apple wont ruin this tree the bad apple eventually shrivels up and falls off the tree :Devil Grin:

----------


## moto

gotta respect the knowledge from the people on this board you should not knock anyones opinions or facts. and if you do make shure you know what your writing when writing it . one persons attitude makes me want to puke and its not from sust flu it's from talking smack to a very knowledgeable person on this board. one bad apple wont ruin this tree the bad apple eventually shrivels up and falls off the tree :Devil Grin:

----------


## jkkk

The reason people use sust250 is mostly because that's the only thing available. If cypionate was available around here people would be a lot happier. The only other test around ontario is enthanate from Valopharm(shitty)Other than that, were stuck w/ sust250 and there's lots of big guys walking around that jusy stack with fina and call it a day.

----------


## Sicilian30

Boy we have a test argument. Dammit, I just ordered a shit load of Sus... first time me doin sus, now I am all depressed.. dammit Iron.. 
Oh well, I wanna see how my body will react to it. I might throw in some deca and winny to counter act the bloating if that occurs.. thanks for the input, a day late and a dollar shot. 
And I thought I did alot of research on Sustanon , oh well I think from what I have heard, it is more to me, what Billy said, it depends on the individual. OH well, hope it works for me.. Keep ya'll up to date on my progres..

----------


## RON

Great thread!!!!! this was what made me use t-200. This and the one that called sus and deca the juice of the devil. Well there was the matter of t-200 being so cheap too  :Big Grin: 

Sicilian bro, don't worry bout it I'm sure you have seen how some guys swear by it in here. Just a lot of alcohol but what's a little pain. IMHO its engineered much better than t400 at least. I'm sure you'll get some good gain out of it bro.

----------


## Met-Rx

[QUOTE]_Originally posted by JRMY2711_ 
[B]HERE IS THE SYMPTOMS I READ FOR SUST THE OTHER DAY.

cases of impotence, chronic priapism, epididymitis, inhibition of testicular function, oligospermia



Isn't this true for most steroids ?

----------


## blaylock

hey guys, Im not a new user but havent really gotten to crazy. I just started sust cause its the only thing here that i can get, if you were to take it or how should i take it? Im at a level in my training were i think something is nesesary. Ive taken sust before and gotten pretty good results, what should i do?

----------


## Master P

What is front loading? This is a new term to me.

----------


## jkkk

Frontloading is an something only advanced users should get into. Basically for the first couple weeks you take double the dosage that you plan on taking throughout the cycle.
ex. weeks 1+2 - 1000mg sust250
weeks 3-8 - 500mg sust250
if you try it plan on side effects a lot quicker and also gains will start sooner. good luck sleeping.

----------


## Redneck

Ok I finally made it through the entire post and have (what I think) are some resonablre queations. Why not front load with sust? Is 250sust ETD good enough to see the full benifits. If this post does end up changing my mind what is a resonable dosage for test cyp or enth. This will be my first cycle and I was planning 750sustwk1&2 500wk3-8. 
After reading im debating if I should get testcyp/enth instead or if I should just break the sust down into two shots a week?  :Don't know:  
thanks

----------


## Canes4Ever

IG could you explain a little bit more ? I am just starting to look into using and I want to use Enanthate I think. Did I read correctly on the AR Drug profiles that it (Enanthate) cause more gyno ?

----------


## jkkk

Redneck - That would be a smart choice for a first cycle, you will experience the effects of the sust250 a little sooner that way. You don't really need the cyp or enth. Remember that article is one mans opinion. If you do research more people will disagree with the article than agree with it. Frontloading anything will result in faster gains. Plus it is an advanced method. Stick to basics for your first cycle, but don't start until EVERYTHING is in your hand for the entire cycle, Nolvadex , clomid, vitamins, steroids ,creatine, glutamine, protein, your diet and training. If all these are not in check, expect a shitty first cycle and expect to lose most or all your gains.

----------


## RDK800617

Great post. 
Thanks for the info IG.
I took sustanon for 3 weeks(combined with otherAS) and gained 15lbs. Then I took enanthate for 3 weeks and gained 12lbs.So to me it didn't really make a difference, but in the end it al comes down to the individuals body structure and how his body reacts to sertain AS.This is what i think, correct me if i'm wrong. But still great post-keep it up

----------


## diesel21

weird.. i used 20 russians, twice a week and had great gains.. 10 pounds solid as a rock. no problems what so ever and i love it.. will do it again and hopefully nothing will happen know that this post has made me paranoid. (kept half of what I gained.

----------


## mspata

Ive used Sust in 2 cycles... both times I had 2 strange side effects. I used the Tokkyo brand both times... legit stuff. First shot each cycle, I got a three day rash over my quadricep muscles and had difficulty walking... very sore. My skin was red and it scared the hell out of me... thought I had an infection or fasciitis. It went away with no problem. Problem number two was the sust flu... it is some real shit for me. First shot both cycles. The first cycle was the worst... I was in bed, missing work, for three days. Bed sweats and all. But... I did make good gains both cycles... but I don't think I want to deal with it anymore. Enanthate doesn't do this to me. By the way, I started with 500 mg each cycle. And also, no more problems after the first week. So, it was ok after the first shot. I wish I understood this phenomenon more.

----------


## reli

in papper sustanon seems as the superior of cyp,porp,enth nevrtheless i have experienced the greatest results from test prop especially when inject it eod,it doesnt mean its better it just worked better for me

----------


## jdvctt73

Most of my friends use sust two shots a week. and just add prop alone on other days.

----------


## mustanggurl

i did sustanon about a year ago, to this date all the side effects are coming back, zits, aggression, moods, puffiness in my muscles. Is this normal or is there something wrong? should i be expeiriencing the taste again even thought im no longer on sustanon.?
help.

----------


## m0728

I was deciding what to take for my first cycle, I was told that sust was a great choice. My only real complaint is the sust flu. Once I had to inject the full 500mg in one day. I was so sick I couldn't sleep and was throwing up. It goes away pretty quickly though. I usually dont get that flu from my 250 mg twice a weeks.

----------


## dsc

I just did a cycle of sust, and I agree with you guys. Sust sucks, I was sick as hell for a couple of days after injecting for about my first two weeks. I even threw up once. The stuff also hurt like hell for a couple days after injections for about the first three weeks. Definetly going with enanthate on the next cycle.

----------


## abstrack

IG-- where were you my brotha when I was having this same debate with people??? I have had this same debate on 2 boards now!! I am glad to see I am not crazy and at least some people see what I am looking at.

I am keeping this one as a sticky for me!!

----------


## muscles on lay away

i am a newbie learning shit everyday that i am on here I am takin sust 250 pakistan. 500 every 5 days have slight flu syptoms have taken for 4 wks have gained 12lbs of rock and my weights have jumped off the chart. hardly any water.other than the flu feel great look even better. so far sust has done me no wrong.

----------


## ossparts

i took my first shot of sus 250 organon the other day in the quad,
hahhaha my quads were sore as hell, maybe i didnt do it right (first time injecting a steriod )
but i also noticed the flu symptoms, i was at work and my temperature went up, started feeling cold and got the chills. went away that night
next day happened again, it wasnt that bad, also i broke out with about 4 or 5 boils on my body.

----------


## dsc

you probably injected right ossparts sust can hurt like hell for the first few weeks. It will stop after a while, or at least become a very small pain.

----------


## alex*v.7

enanthate vs. sustanon 

for every 100mg of Testosterone Enanthate you have 69mg of Raw Testosterone and 31mg of Enanthate Ester.

for every 100mg of Sustanon/Omnadren /Karachi you have 66mg of Raw Testosterone and 33mg of Esters.

When injected every weeks, at 500mg or less (preferably 250mg), Sustanon has the more steady levels. Over 500mg Enanthate has the edge because of the frequency of the injections. So if you're planning to do 250mg weekly of Test, you should go with Sust. If you're planning to do more than 500mg, Enanthate or Cypionate are superior by far. If you're looking for 250mg to 500mg weekly you're in the grey zone. Sust having the edge at low dose, Enanthate at higher dose.

My guess is that Priopionate should be your choice if you're looking to inject between 250mg and 500mg.

----------


## nope

first off ive learned more here than from the weeks and months of talking to the clowns at my local gym.
they arent as helpful and really dont knwo too much other than 
"this worked great for me get this"

this is whats available to me for my second every cycle.
sust 250
EQ
PROP
winny
deca 
cyp

money really isnt an option, causei know in life you get what you pay for. the amount of poking done each week is not a factor either.

all the guys at my gym said sust, but after reading the 3 pages of this thread all ive come up with .....in its easiest way to understand is:

-noobies will see more results than pros.
-the pros saying no to it are baisising their opions on price/dose

am i missing something? can someone give me a link to a thread here about stacking cycles?(not just the few on the front page? ive looked but maybe not hard enough.
or maybe a guide to get myself nice gains and nice strenght?
like a use "x" amount of "x" for "x" long with "x" amount of "x" for "x" long?

i dunno im gonna go read more and learn cause knowledge is key !! thanks

----------


## ossparts

nope what are your stats 
and what is your goal
also need to know if your hair is thin
if your prone to acne 
and your body type

----------


## nope

pm'd ya

----------


## dako

> _Originally posted by The Iron Game_ 
> *Not all test was created equal. Test is Test is Test. As much as this is true we are speaking about raw test or de esterified test. We are not talking about ester bound test. 
> 
> The purpose when injecting is to do so to keep blood plasma levels as stable and at peak for as long as possible, now we cannot do this with sustanon unless it is injected every other day. If I were to draw a graph on the time release of sustanon it would have Highs & Lows (Ups & Downs). Now the average newbie does not wish to inject on an every other day basis and he certainly doesnt wish to be using that much test for a first or second cycle either. In order to keep blood plasma levels stable and reach a peak as quickly as possible you would have to go about front loading. Again something that should not really be done with sustanon.
> 
> I have read sustanon causes less water retention, sustanon causes less chance of getting gyno and less sides overall. This is not true one bit.
> 
> 250mgs of sust or 250mgs of enanthate ?
> 
> ...


 :Cry:  i tried using susta 250 per week for 3 weeks. man i got had acne all over my neck!

----------


## dutchboy

I have used sust twice and am planning on using it for my next two cycles. I do just fine with it. I don't understand all of the bashing over the past couple of years, prior to that it was the rage....I think the blend of esters makes a difference in the first couple of weeks but after that you got so much in your system I don't see how it would matter. But then again sust is the only test I've used so maybe I should try a single ester next time and see if there is a difference. But, it is hard to change when I have had such good luck with sust. Any how that is my humble .02

----------


## Goodwinners

wow, thats cool

http://queenminx.proboards22.com/index.cgi

----------


## michaeln

does drinking alcohol affect you body negatively even while drinking in moderation

----------


## BDTR

What would you consider moderation? A glass of wine a day is considered healthy... but "moderation" can mean a lot of things to a lot of different people.

----------


## Joe Rilla

The Iron Game 

I have thoroughly read your posts and I thank you for sharing your knowledge . I have been taking Omnidren for 4 weeks now and thought that I made a great choice was doing the right thing . After reading all of your posts I have learned so much and decided to follow your advice and do enethate with deca , instead of omnidren .

I Bought some Polish Testosterone . I hope it is Enethate.
The box holds five 1ml Amps 100mg each. The manufacturer is Jelfa and on the front of the box is reads " Testosteronum prolongatum "

On the top of the box it reads " Testosteronum enanthanum ".
Can some one please tell me if this is test enethate, the guy buy from only speaks polish, and everyone usually get omnidren from him , and with that there is no confusion, as i know exactly what that is. 
Thanks for any help.



















> Not all test was created equal. Test is Test is Test. As much as this is true we are speaking about raw test or de esterified test. We are not talking about ester bound test. 
> 
> The purpose when injecting is to do so to keep blood plasma levels as stable and at peak for as long as possible, now we cannot do this with sustanon unless it is injected every other day. If I were to draw a graph on the time release of sustanon it would have Highs & Lows (Ups & Downs). Now the average newbie does not wish to inject on an every other day basis and he certainly doesnt wish to be using that much test for a first or second cycle either. In order to keep blood plasma levels stable and reach a peak as quickly as possible you would have to go about front loading. Again something that should not really be done with sustanon.
> 
> I have read sustanon causes less water retention, sustanon causes less chance of getting gyno and less sides overall. This is not true one bit.
> 
> 250mgs of sust or 250mgs of enanthate ?
> 
> Enanthate contains more raw test than the mixture in sust.
> ...

----------


## TheSevnthWarrior

> You're right, i won't be swearing anymore on this thread cuz, its bullshiet! I don't care how long you been juicing for or how much time you sit in front of the monitor. But, i want to hear why from the big and high almighty IG why all the other tests don't aromatize like sustanon (from which you claim) ... where is your proof? 
> 
> And I didn't see any name calling in my reply so Cycleon stay out of it!! IG is an adult, he can handle is own beef! 
> 
> And IG i know just as much as you, since the same information that is available to all of us in books and the net is the same!! So don't front like you know your shiet and like you wrote the scriptures of anabolic steroids ... i do plenty of research and have been for a long ass time, in books and on the net and all the info is the same. All the threads are the same... elite, anabolex, fitnessboard, etc.. same shiet, different smell!
> 
> I ain't hear to start beef but, when i see a title of a thread saying "why NOT to use sustanon" ... its just bullshiet cuz, your basically dictating newbies and spreading your OWN propaganda... so don't you think i will run and hide from my replies cuz i won't, i'm a man and i can stand on my feet and handle my beefs.


Duuuude! Dude, Dude, Dude! I'm not sold on it either. I love sus, but I do it EOD or ETD - Always. But YOU are Waaaaay out of line on this board, or in life period, you just simply don't talk to people that way. I and willing to bet that you wouldn't if you were standing right next to them! And don't try and flame me, I can see it would have ZE RO Impact on me, as I'm sure it has the same on IG & Cycleon. This reminds me of them Damn AOL boards where every imature squirrel in the country gets behind the screen and becomes tough....OK, I'm starting to sound the same..................out.

----------


## meatman69

> Not all test was created equal. Test is Test is Test. As much as this is true we are speaking about raw test or de esterified test. We are not talking about ester bound test. 
> 
> The purpose when injecting is to do so to keep blood plasma levels as stable and at peak for as long as possible, now we cannot do this with sustanon unless it is injected every other day. If I were to draw a graph on the time release of sustanon it would have Highs & Lows (Ups & Downs). Now the average newbie does not wish to inject on an every other day basis and he certainly doesnt wish to be using that much test for a first or second cycle either. In order to keep blood plasma levels stable and reach a peak as quickly as possible you would have to go about front loading. Again something that should not really be done with sustanon.
> 
> I have read sustanon causes less water retention, sustanon causes less chance of getting gyno and less sides overall. This is not true one bit.
> 
> 250mgs of sust or 250mgs of enanthate ?
> 
> Enanthate contains more raw test than the mixture in sust.
> ...



I did one cycle of sust an deca 300 mg of deca a week and 500 mgs of sust and i gained 25 lbs of solid muscle and a dramatic increase in my strentgh im talking about a 335 bench to 395 a 500 lb deadlift to 550 and a 565 squat to 615 i had no problems with water retention (with the help of taraxatone- a type of watert pill) and kept most of my gains i lost about 3 lbs about 2 months after i stopped and that was only becasue the test that was in my system ran out. i did not use clomid or any other anti-e's. That was my ssecond of 4 cycles an was the second best that i had taken. The best cycle i am currently taking is the best yet, which includes, 500 mgs of test enanthate per week 50 mgs of anadrol per day and 300 mgs of deca a week already 3 weeks into my cycke i gained 20 lbs im now up to 280 lbs and benching 425 deadlifting 595 and squatting almost 700 lbs. it seems like bullshyt these numbers but with hard training westside style(louie simmons powerlifting style) and a healthy high calorie diet and good amount of cardio u can hit any weight u want. No matter what you take or how ****ty your diet is if you put your mind to it and believe your not intimadated by the weight you can get astronomical numbers. Thanks for reading
Train hard bros-
meatman

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## Dammer

Not too sure what to make of this thread. Somebody said earlier that it's different for most people and I agree wholeheartedly with that.

My first cycle was 750 mg of sust a week and 500 mg of deca a week. Both for 10 weeks. I had a little bit of water retention but the arimidex I also took got rid of that in no time at all. I was able to put on 28 lbs and keep 24 lbs post cycle with no side effects. I guess it is different for everyone. It's a great beginner's steroid .

Just my 2 cents.
Dammer

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## dane

I just read most of these threads and I have nothing but good things to say about sus. I stacked 500mg for 8 weeks with deca and had great gains, but like Dammer said it's different for everyone. dane

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## The Fallen Angel

Seperate strands of Test (Cyp or Enant) are far superior to Sustanon .

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## Latimus

so enath is a good choice for a first cycle then..instead of sust250..why do so many beginners start with it then...

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## Latimus

sust..."To start with it is more effective at lower dosages. For most users of domestics like Cypionate and Enanthate , the drugs tend to require increased dosage each time they are used to provide the user with good results. Eventually many find themselves using 1200 mg per week or more to get results. Sustanon s primary advantage is that it has been effective in continued use or return use at a reasonable dosage. A dose of 250 mg per week or 500 mg every 10 days is about all one needs of the Sustanon to get good results. Because of the blend of testosterones in Sustanon it seems to be recognised by the steroid receptors for longer periods of time than the previously mentioned domestics, Because a person can use less sustanon and still get results, he will see less side effects." pulled this off the net...This thread is perfect for me..im going to start up my first cycle and am having a hard time decide between the 2...what is the bottem line???

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## Chocolate

there is no bottom line really...
i used 1 amp/week of sust250 for 8 weeks my first cycle gained 12 pounds and kept all of my gains.
strangely enough i don't think injecting it hurts and i don't get flu symptoms like other people... but i do know that if you are injecting it more than once a week you will see better results. i enjoyed using sustanon and felt that there was a great pump effect for three days following the injection, my face got fat :P but i didn't get any acne.
i have never tried any of the straight tests' but i am new to this and havn't tried a lot of different compounds.
i would suggest to any newbie to try sust... cause it isn't any worse than any of the other tests' just different and for me it was more readily available.

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## UrbanDawg

What exaclty is this sust flu phenom? Ive been megadosing it and have just felt like I got the flu - sore throat - earache and it happen really fast.
Is this some sort of body reaction to the test ? ma i really sick? is it a real infection? When will it go ?

help!

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## Jjdigs74

This is common and happens to alot of AS users. I have no medical explanation for this but from my readings and informationI have gathered, " flu like syptoms " play a roll in most Sust users. For starters you are introducing something into your body that your body is not used to. Testosterone is naturaly in your body but not at that amount. So your body has to learn to deal with the stress it is being subjected to. Your body does cope with this eventually but in the first stages ( 1-3 weeks ) you will experience side effects because of your hormones being so out of wack.
Sustonon has to be shot every 2 days or every 3 days to keep Testosterone Levels at a steady rate. When using any type of testosterone you will see maximum and best results keeping your Testosterone at the same level throughout the week and so on. When your Testosterone levels jump up and down you will see the opposite. More side effect ( cold, flu, soar throat, general well being, mood changes, effect in motivation ) also you will see more of a jump in weight day by day. 
Most users of Sustonon do not know this and make sustanon to be a great anabolic steriod . Sustanon has its place in the steriod world, do not get me wrong! But I beleive that novices or rookies to AS should choose another form of testosterone to use in their cycles that would give them a better result. My belife is that sustanon is ment for the guys that have been cycling for years, with numerous cycles under there belts preferably at an older age. 
Further more i will say that you will be fine and not to worry about you getting sick. Like i said it is very common for people to become sick when starting Sustanon. I would work through it, take lots of Vitamins ( A, E, C, Multi, Fish Oil, B12 ) drink lots of fluids and rest your body for now. It will be fine to stay out of the gym less during you being ill, that will give your body longer time to recover. I would continue with your cycle as planned and finish it to the day and follow PCT.

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## Billyc

I am a novice in the anabolic steriod world. I am about to take my first cycle. I have learned so much just by reading your post questions and answers. I was wondering about a couple of things....first is that I am about to purchase sustonon for my first cycle. My bodybuilding friend told me its the best steriod on the market as of now. After reading from as I can see that their are mixed judgements about that. What do you feel about that?

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## MR PHATT ASS

> I am a novice in the anabolic steriod world. I am about to take my first cycle. I have learned so much just by reading your post questions and answers. I was wondering about a couple of things....first is that I am about to purchase sustonon for my first cycle. My bodybuilding friend told me its the best steriod on the market as of now. After reading from as I can see that their are mixed judgements about that. What do you feel about that?


.your gonna have the sust lovers and sust haters everywhere....i personally like it but i never used test e/c .. anyways its believed and recommended that newbies use test e cause it only has 1 ester in it...sust has 4 esters and they have diff release times...the single ester keeps it simple for the 1st time user..i recommend doing a search here on sust/test e and c and you'll alll your answers....the vets have better knowledge than i..... dont forget pct too

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## Billyc

Thanks for the information. I can see that a lot of as subscribers say that test is a good way to start. The only problem is that I can't find test. I don't want to go around the gym and just ask anyone if they can find it. My bodybuilding friend said that he doubts he can find it too. Help?

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## Jjdigs74

> Thanks for the information. I can see that a lot of as subscribers say that test is a good way to start. The only problem is that I can't find test. I don't want to go around the gym and just ask anyone if they can find it. My bodybuilding friend said that he doubts he can find it too. Help?


 It sounds like you don;t have a good BBer friend at all bro! Test is readily available on the black market and can be found very easily. Any source out there has or can get numerous amounts of Testosterone . It would not be wise to walk around your gym and ask anybody for anything. Id ask good friends if they know anybody that deals with gear. If they say yes and you trust that friend have him talk to his buddy for you. In most cases you want to be introduced to his friend and make sure for yourself that you can trust him. I know that its tough to judge people, but if you get a sense that hes not a straight shooter and hes out to make a fast buck, just say no thanks or tell him youll call him later and walk away! Its not worth getting burned or getting fake gear! If still no luck id shop around for a domestic source and make sure you ask around for a good source check! NO ASKING FOR A SOURCE but ask if one is ok and good to deal with. Good luck bro

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## Kelvin

I am also currently on sustanon 250. I have been keeping track of the threads on this site about sustanon. I personally don't have any problems with it whatsoever. I guess that sustanon agrees with this body!!! There seems to be much contraversy about it. Some do like it, some don't. I can only say that for this body, sustanon is all good. For the next person .....?

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## Bigboy7

hey i took 500mgs of sus. about 5 days ago and my rear right cheek is swollen and hurts can any one throw something out at me please

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## Jjdigs74

> hey i took 500mgs of sus. about 5 days ago and my rear right cheek is swollen and hurts can any one throw something out at me please


Im not sure of your cycle experience but most rookies to sust as well as many other AS have sore injections. Mostly because of the BA and the fact that your body is not used to it. It will get easier to shoot and the swelling will go down. I highly doubt its an infection but if it persists past 4 or 5 weeks i would get it checked out by your doc. Also split your shots up during the week. Sust250 is not to be takin at 500mg/ per shot incremints. Shot E3D at 250mg and you will be fine. good luck

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## Mr. Shoulders

My personal experience tends to lean towards enanthate and cyp. I have done them all including sust and have always tried to keep the mindset of working with my body's glands and not trying to rock the boat too much. This may sound conservative but, over the 20 years of bodybuilding I have gone from 165lbs to 275 using this principle...IMO sust is a waste of $$$ in the light of some of the other options that are available...

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## Newbie_J

sup fellas... what can i say i'm a newbie, but here's the thing I've been weight tranning for about 4 years now and i seem to have peak as far as my gains go, and after reading all replys and doing some research of my own i have come to the conclusion that test enanthate and deca are a good combination is this true?

and another problem i'm running into is where to find them without getting scammed.
if you could help please send an E-mail to [email protected] 

thanks! 

No More GAINS!!!!!!!!! Newbie_J

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## powerlifter

Sust sucks IMO - too hard to keep blood levels steady

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## Quake

Hi! You say that Propionate should be taken everyday and at about 100mgs a day, this would mean 700mgs of one test a week. This taken into account, what sort of stack would you be thinking of?! I've had many people tell me that while some claim to be doing up to 3000mgs of gear a week, you should really be looking at sticking to a max of 1000 to 1500mg in the peak of your cycle. I think your doses are a little excessive, or am I wrong?

Bouncer

your names not down, your not coming in!

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## alabama

have u ever even used it , im sick of ppl that have not tried a certain gear or from a certain lab and talk **** about just because thats what u heard or read well i have used it and i liked havin a the benifits from faster acting prop to the other blended tests

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## allabs5150

My frst cycle , and at the time I have to admitt i was not the most educated person on the differnt types of AS and thier sides but I ran 12 weeks 500 mg Sust and weeks 7 to 14 added primo had some really nice gains but I do remember the sust really hurtin and the sust flu tha came with it during the first few weeks From now one its only Test E or Prop with deca or tren

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## DIVINATION

Not too mention... the sus flu and pain after first time injection for a newbie is not fun!

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## Oakley

> Not too mention... the sus flu and pain after first time injection for a newbie is not fun!



first time injection? that was easy as ****. I got my labre pierced last week and that hurt 10 worse than sticking myself for the first time. if you cant take the shot your a ****ing Pussy Yes with a capitol P.

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## bubbathegut

:EEK!:   :Devil Grin:

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## DIVINATION

> first time injection? that was easy as ****. I got my labre pierced last week and that hurt 10 worse than sticking myself for the first time. if you cant take the shot your a ****ing Pussy Yes with a capitol P.


You're tough... I was talking about the stiff-leg sore pain the next day from the sus.

Next time figure out what you're talking about b4 you talk trash.

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## Oakley

> You're tough... I was talking about the stiff-leg sore pain the next day from the sus.
> 
> Next time figure out what you're talking about b4 you talk trash.



Im on sust and deca for my first cycle and that brings me back to my original statement.

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## Hometown Hero

Hey sust might make you a little sore, but its definately tollerable. Try taking a CC of straight test-400 with no cut. You will beg for your sust back after that. I see everyones point about the half life of the esters in sust. Although, like a few others I have to agree that everyones body will no doubt respond differently. I'm far from a chemist, but it seems to me that the short acting esters in sust just stairstep to one another. In other words each ester is timed so that when one stops working another is comming in to pick up the slack, and so on all the way up to the longest lasting ester. I have read every post in this thread and there is a lot of good information, we got some genius bro's on this bored, but I for one am still a skeptic. Moral of my story, dont knock it till you try it. Just because it doesn't work for John Doe doesn't mean it wont blow your hair back.

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## Toenail Juice Z

> Im on sust and deca for my first cycle and that brings me back to my original statement.




 :LOL:

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## Pure Power

.....a lot of the people who started this thread aren't even sharing their opinion anymore. I think this thread went way off course. Sust in the end has less raw test than for example e or cyp. I am IN NO WAY a chemical whiz, but, wouldn't it make sence that the other is less expencive, and has more of the ingredient you really want in it. I have a hunch on the flu problem with sust though. Maybe it would also explain why for some insane reason people notice different reactions to sust like less water and the likes. Sust creates a lot of peaks of test in your body as far as I can understand and takes a long time to clear your body. But the faster acting etsers ...well act faster and clear within 2-3 days. This rise and fall as apposed to a more gradual and gentle wave of test in the blood from other etsers, ie enth. 
If you have a fast acting ester, you would be able to notice it much sooner in a cycle. But it would require more often injection, ie, prop 200 mg would clear in 2 days. 100 mg per day with the highest blood levels being(I'm not sure but just a guess please tell me how correct I am)at exactly 1 day/24 hours/the middle point of injectiont. Making a verry steep bell curve.

Longer acting would show a similar pattern but over a longer amount of time. But still show a bell pattern ie enth showing its highest concentration in the blood 3.5-4 days post injection. But because it has a much more gradual curve.
Now this makes sence to me. I could be way off base but I have a theory and I would like to be a bit more informed b4 I open my big fat mouth.

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## over40mule

I'm 43 and used (still have 8 mexican reinjects stashed) of sust 250. My leg/arse swole up (site where i injected)and my teste followed. Didn't get near the results or have the pain when using cyp. Just my 2-cents.

I am going to use what I have mixed with cyp

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## shorty33

I was on sustanon250, injecting Tuesday 250mg then on Friday 250mg, for a total of 500mg a week. In my 5th week i got really sick, really bad cough (uncontrollable), i have never been that sick oh yeah diarea as well. The cough lasted for about 5weeks it sucked. I have got cypionate for my next cycle and i will run that Tuesday 400mg, then Friday 400mg, i'm staying away from sustanon250 because of all i've read and the fact that i got the sustanon flu.

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## smackdown

if sus is not that good, what can you recommend? i really want to get big fast, i've been going to the gym for 8yrs and i didn't achieve my goal... thanx...

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## Toenail Juice Z

> if sus is not that good, what can you recommend? i really want to get big fast, i've been going to the gym for 8yrs and i didn't achieve my goal... thanx...


Testosterone Enanthate at 1000mg/week together with 10mg Nolvadex /day and 25mg Proviron .

This is what I recommend if your going to do a test only cycle, and considering the fact you have 8 yrs training, that's why i suggested a gram.

Nolva and Proviron will prevent the gyno and a lot of the water retention. You'll just be a huge mofo in approximately 8 weeks.

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## smackdown

TOENAIL JUICE Z... how about if i want to bulk and have cuts, what cycle can you recommend... thanx 4 spending some time to answer my inquiry....

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## Toenail Juice Z

> TOENAIL JUICE Z... how about if i want to bulk and have cuts, what cycle can you recommend... thanx 4 spending some time to answer my inquiry....


Since you have 8 years of training experience I beleive your ready for Tren , or Tren Enanthate , or Hexabolan (All trenbolone based drugs). 
Although if you have a short temper, I don't reccommend any tren type drugs.

If you wanna bulk and have cuts, you can devise a cycle consisting of the following, which IMO are very good for what your after as long as you have a good muscle base to work with, which you probably have if you've been training consitantly for 8 years. What are your stats by the way?

1) Testosterone Propionate 
2) Trenbolone Enanthate/Finaplix /Hexabolan (/ means OR, not together  :LOL:  )
3) Winstrol Depot
4) Equipoise 
5) Clenbuterol 
6) & Nolvadex at only 10mg/day throughout the cycle. ( a lot of people will disagree with me on this one, but IMHO it's better to be safe than sorry. Estrogen is your worst enemy!).

I'm not very good at writing out cycles, so I'm sure another bro can make one up out of the substances I have reccomended to you.

Good luck bro, and you don't have to buy all these things if you can't afford it. You can just change things around a bit.

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## ASLAMV

:Strong Smiley:  WARM UP YHE SUS TO BODY TEMP OR A LITTLE HIGHER BEFORE INJECTING.THIS WILL MAKE A GREAT DIFF WITH REGARDS TO THE PAIN AND SWELLING.

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## Chris_ATV

I have been taking 250mg sust E3D since June 1.
Today is July 7.
So 1 month and I have put on 15lbs of quality gains, my BF % barely has gone up too, so I'm hoping to keep most of it.

I (luckily) havent experienced the sust flu (yet anyways).

The shots tend to hurt for 24 hours or so but not bad at all.

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## smackdown

> I have been taking 250mg sust E3D since June 1.
> Today is July 7.
> So 1 month and I have put on 15lbs of quality gains, my BF % barely has gone up too, so I'm hoping to keep most of it.
> 
> I (luckily) havent experienced the sust flu (yet anyways).
> 
> The shots tend to hurt for 24 hours or so but not bad at all.


that's great... u only take sust250mg, do u take nolvadex /any anti-E??? kindly post ur full cycle w/dosage... thnx... i'm a newbie too and want also to have quality gain and loose some body fat

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## dynamike

Whew..Im exhausted reading this entire post...sure not hearing from IG and Cleon anymore...perhaps b/c this has drifted off the original post that the use of Sust isnt maximized unless it is used in a higher freq twice a week 250 mg each shot...or using a longer lasting more stable test like enanthate ...if i recall correctly highly oil based which makes for a longer lasting AS...I used to use Cyp 3cc every four days..but also with orals...Anadrol 20mg a day...a big bloated cycle...Enanthate will be a lot less bloat...Currently im on a sim cycle of 250 mg of Sust once a week (first shot on Fri)..delt shot...sure its sore..so what?...sick..no..thank goodness..balz are shrinking though...lol...which is good cuz my thighs are crushing them anyhow...based on this thread I may jump up to every 4 dayz for sust 250 for ten weeks..continuing the oral ds for another 4 weks at 30 mgs...yes a beg cycle...but then again...I haven't done one in 18 years..so it is one again...what I do find interesting on this thread is the diverse opinions...which leads me to the overall conclusions that every ones body reacts differently to different AS's...I want to thank the senior guyz that posted and got this going to make me think alittle differently about Sust 250...its not a be all end all AS..but its not bad either...  :Cool:

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## Chris_ATV

> that's great... u only take sust250mg, do u take nolvadex/any anti-E??? kindly post ur full cycle w/dosage... thnx... i'm a newbie too and want also to have quality gain and loose some body fat


I took D-bol for 2 weeks 30mg ED.
The sustanon I take 250mg E3D.
I have Nolvadex , I just don't think that I have needed it, I took one a day
for a while but I haven't taken any for a few weeks now.
I am now up to 182lbs. This is my 8th week.

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## spoonta66

What would you guys say with supertest vs sust? which would be a better choice?

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## dobidust

do u think then im better off with testex 250 a week rather than 500mg sust a week thanks andy

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## sporty273uk

i always find anything on gear interesting and at times worrying,bcos ive got a drawer full of gear i bought in turkey hehe.And the majority of it is sust,typical.
But i think i will shoot 250mg tues and 250mg fri,will take 10mg of nolvadex all through 10 week cycle then 2 weeks after last shot take clomid for about 18 days,
Also i might mix some of the sust with primo? is this cycle any good at all? grateful for any info?
steve
PS, what is this sust flu?

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## LetsGO

Is Sustanon and Super Test 250 the same thing

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## LetsGO

and if so , how long would it take to get out of your system

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## Havoc71

Easy Zion...and the other guy...

First of all research is sparse and far between. I think most of you know that scientific studies are most times done on un-trained individuals with unrealistic controls...I think most would also agree that the best information ever introduced to the lifting community was discovered by meat heads like us not some pencil pushing scientist who went to school for 10 years and only makes 20k a year....anyway on to point. ENOUGH TALK ABOUT...SHOW ME THE STUDIES...BECAUSE THEIR PROBABLY IS NONE SPECIFIC TO THIS SUBJECT. That means anything you dig up can be interpted in any way you want it to. There I said my piece.....
Zion going to have to disagree with you on this one. Reason being..Logic. And just let me say I used sust before and had great results..got the frickin sust flu though. Anyway the other guy makes more sense on this one. Sust as most of us know has multiple esters each activating at different times...that means IN-CONSISTENT TEST LEVELS. You should _hypothetically_ have erratic test levels. The reason most have such good results from test is usually because they stack it with other roids namely deca which would keep serum test levels relatively consistent. Therefore one could mistakenly say that its the sust causing thier gains...It seems to me that if anabolism is the goal a CONSISTENTLY high test serum level would yield better results than an IN-CONSISTANT serum test level. 



Now if we look at sust our serum test levels will fluctuate a great deal at least for the first 3 weeks until the undeconate esters start to accumulate and kick in...therefore......wouldnt it be easier to.....

Day 1: 100mg prop-25mg dbol -200mg cyp
Day 4: 100mg prop-25mg dbol-200mg deca
Day 8: 100mg prop-25mg dbol-200mg cyp
Day 12:100mg prop-25mg dbol-200mg deca

why wate 50mg of each ml on a useless indeconate ester...it doesnt make any sense at least to me...but opinions are like a-holes.

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## mr_man

I'm not a guru on sust but I don;t think that suts or omnadren EOD would throw your blood levels out all that much. the prop might drop a bit but the others will catch up and make up for that.INO I'm thinking that is what gives you the test flu is when your other test are catching up and stabalizing the blood.

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## cmoney

I don't know why sostenon is getting such a bad plug here. I have personally used it in several cycles and the only side effect I have ever had is acne and getting bigger, harder, and a hell of alot stronger. In my opinion it is the best form of test you can use for a bodybuilder anyway. However I do notice a huge difference in the different versions as far as side effects and overall benefits. In my opinion the Karachi amps from Pakistan are the best.

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## Kool_Keith

I personally like Sust, I have used it several times and I always get good results. I agree it will not work the same for everyone so maybe it works for me and not other people. The sust flu sucks and it can be the Prop, a lot of people are sensitive to Prop and get the red, swollen sore injection site. Try warming the sust up by running the syringe under warm water for a minute before the shot, also try mixing it w/ something else if yu are taking anything like Deca or Primo. It is not meant to take too much at once as you did, since it does have different time released esters, it is better to take every 3-4 days and you should see good gains. I have always noticed the pain and symptoms get easier about the 2nd to 3rd week.

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## allabs5150

I ran a Sust Deca cycle and had great gains really the only thing that sucked for me was the Sust Flu but after a few weeks on it my body must have gotten used to it and through the rest of the cycle I never got sick. I dont thinki I will do it again unless I have no choice Test E and Deca got me just a good results and no flu

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## BIGGEST J

> Hi IG
> 
> When you get a graph of the blood plasma levels I,d be interested in seeing it.
> 
> As for which part of the UK South East bro near the coast
> 
> Billy



so am i....... :Bath:  (interested)

i just love sust....always had good results.....  :Strong Smiley:

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## Danbrooks2k

Let me Just say... I LOVE SUST... I got my first batch in 1ml amps in saudi arabia for 6 bucks a pop... we also could get decca and andriol but the decca was only 50mg per cc and andriol sucks....

I grew on it then all by itself and It was my second time using juice. I worked my way up to 3ccs a week and shot it all at once... felt fine.

Then I moved to texas, I can get super test 250 cheap or walk across the border and shoot sust for 12 bucks a shot... I still grow like mad on it, I recently stacked it with drol, and before that stacked it with decca...

I am not calling anyone a liar, but for some folks a particular roid is like magic... and sust is great for me...

my next cycle I am going to use tren and sust and perhaps some winnie tabs... 

as far as sides go I get a little puffy nips and an occasional back zit... and really my nuts dont shrink too bad and I have used sust with no PCT and only had one or two real drowsy weeks that the dhea didnt quite get me though...

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## NWO

Oke bros, I suppose I'm like 2 1/2 years late, but I hope to see IG return to discuss this further  :Stick Out Tongue: 

I've read trough the whole thread, and I've seen good points from IG and a couple of others. Lame board bashing etc. So much bull**** just out of 1 single discussion! Where's the manners?  :Frown: 

So, Sustanon250 consists of 4 esters, and as IG stated, they make Sust in lower dosages, take longoer time to get increased blood levels. The "bloat" will arrive on Sust as any other testosterone , it all depends on how you shoot it and how much.

And I would like everyone to read this one;

The proper use of Sustanon in a cycle by Squatdemon!

One of the most misunderstood ideals when it comes to Sustanon is how to properly use it in a cycle. There is no wrong way, but there is a best way to administer proper doseages so you can fully benifit from the esters in Sustanon. Sustanon was developed for the primary reason of hormone replacement, and because of the mix of esters most patients only needed one shot a month to keep their hormone levels balanced. Because of this design, the bodybuilder will not recieve proper doseages at once or twice a week injections. Your blood levels will fluctuate up and down continually, which is not what you want while on a cycle. You want stable levels to give your body the best chance it can have to build plenty of muscle. All test is the same, but once only the ester is removed. People that say test is test are wrong unless you are assuming that the ester has already been removed. I have had plenty of different results fromt the different tests I have used, as well as I am sure you have too. The secret to making sus work correctly, is timing the esters so the blood levels do not fluctuate. 
I will assume that everyone knows how an ester works and why one is added to the parent testosterone. With sustanon, you have 4 esters: 

30mg of prop 
60mg of phenylprop 
60mg of isocaproate 
100mg of deconate 
Combined to give you 250mg. 

Now everyone knows for themselves how much test they should take due to previous cycles or no cycles at all. Lets take each ester and see how long they will stay active in the body. 30mg of prop--Prop needs to be injected at least every other day to get the full benifits of the test. I think every third day is a little too long to wait, although some people may disagree. 
Now lets say you are doing a prop only cycle and injecting 30mg twice a week. You can see already that is a waste of gear. If you inject 30mg of prop twice a week you are totally wasting your time. You will NOT grow off of this, so you can basically take sus and knock it down to 220mg an amp if you are injecting once or twice a week. 60 mg of phenylprop--Phenylprop is not that much different than prop. You can get away with injecting the phenylprop ester every third day. Anyone that has taken nandrolone with a phenylprop ester knows that it is shorter acting and must be injected twice a week (for example, getwoods powder). If injected twice a week, then lets even cushion the amount, you will have all 120 mg in one week. To recap, so far this is what you get the first week---180 mg of test in your system. If you ask me that was a waste of two amps. That is barely enough to supress the axis, and that is about all you will have happen if you inject 180mg of test per week. 
Now lets look at the longer acting esters in sus. 60mg of Isocaproate--Isocaproate will give you a duration of about a week before it is let go. This is not bad, but at 60 mg you are still not getting enough test to make it worth the time. 100mg of Deconate--Here is the daddy of the four esters. This is the same ester that is used in Decca-Durabolin . The deconate ester should really average out at 2 weeks, but has been said to last up to 3. This ester was added at a 100mg dose to balance out the quicker acting esters used in sustanon. If we review one more time, we can see roughly how much test we will have in our body per week when we use sus, and hopefully you can see it is very low. You can pretty much take out the prop and phenylprop until about week 3 or 4, because once the other esters release the test and it gets time to build up in the system, the prop and phenylprop is useless. Not until around week six are you going to get your test levels high enough to do any good, and if you are on a 10 week cycle and start tapering week 8, then your test have been only relatively high for about 2-3 weeks. 
Call me crazy, but that is not at all what I want in a cycle. Every test cycle should be started high to hit those receptors hard, and I dont even taper at the end (but that is a different story). This is what your sustanon cycle looks like if you inject on a once or twice a week basis. 

wk1 wk6 wk10 wk12 
---- / \ / \ / \ / \ _________________\ 

Although this is a rough diagram, you can see how small of a peak you get, and once you start to taper and the isocaproate and the deconate taper off, you have a very non effective cycle. The scale is only a visual aid and not completely drawn to scale, but hopefully you get the point. 
The numbers that BIGDAWG and I worked on basically show that your test levels will never at one time be stable for more that a couple of weeks. Why do you think that people say they have less bloat on sus and less sides. There is so little of the short acting test in your system at one time that it is impossible to get any bloat or side effects at all. So you ask, well what is the best way to take sus then? 
First I would answer dont buy it. If you really want to use a 4 blend test then buy some of the old omna (not the new ones), they have more shorter acting tests in them and the blood levels will stay more equal. If you dont believe me, ask anyone that has used the old omna and they will tell you they got quite a bit of bloat from it. Reason being is the shorter acting esters in the omna build up your blood levels quicker, hence you have the bloat factor. If someone doesnt like my first answer, then I will give them a second, "inject the sus everyday or at the least every other day." I usually get the "wholly @#%$, thats crazy!!!" answer. I usually tell them back, no its not crazy, its science. The actual science of sus combined with a bodybuilders needs equal injecting every day. 
People seem to forget about the esters and think they are injecting all of 1750mg each week and getting every mg of it. Trust me folks, I am not talking about injecting 7 amps a week for 10 weeks, I am suggesting injecting an amp a day for 3 weeks, and letting the esters do thier work after that. When you crunch the numbers, for the first two weeks you are really only getting the prop, phenylprop, and a little of the isocaproate. Maybe about 700-750 mg for the first two weeks, and for weeks after that when all of the isocaproate and deconate kick in you will stay aroung 600-800mg for weeks following the first couple. You have a perfect taper, if you are into that, and stable test levels. If you go to eod, it will vary a bit, but not enough to really make too much of a difference. Start off the cycle with 5 weeks of dbol while using the sus, and when you are done with the sustanon, then immediately start injecting two anabolics like eq and decca, or decca and primo/winny. This is a cycle that a lot of the pros are using called front end loading with an anabolic taper. 
I guinea pigged this idea when BIGDAWG and I were discussing it many months back, and **** it was a really good cycle. Not as good as 1000mg of aratest a week, but still a pretty good cycle. I have cycled sus/omna both ways, and trained relatively the same with the same kind of diet. The difference in the two cycles were like night and day, about a 15-17 pound difference, and two amps of omna a week was my first cycle too. You know, the one you are supposed to grow the most off of because of the virgin receptors. So test may be test, but you will not get the same results from every ester out there if you dont know how to time them. If you are thinking of a sus/omna cycle, give this a try. I promise you will not be disappointed, and you just may thank me and DAWG later......peace.

YES YES YES, and there you go, if you wanna use Sust, hit it ed and let the **** flow. Or do as the "regulars" use cyp/enan  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## heavy D

okay maybe im in the right place now. i just got some sustenon 300 if all these side effects come with it, i may not use it. if i do should i stack it with winstrol ? serious help needed!

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## goalseeker

I was looking for a post like this, cuz this is my first cycle, and it consists of 500/wk of sust. I have been dieting for 8 weeks, and back lifting again seriously for 5 weeks. I thought I would see more results by now, although I also just started 30mg/day of dbol . The pain from the sust, and the lack of results so far has me wanting to switch to enanthate . whatta you guys think??

----------


## Artiken

> HERE IS THE SYMPTOMS I READ FOR SUST THE OTHER DAY.
> 
> cases of impotence, chronic priapism, epididymitis, inhibition of testicular function, oligospermia, and bladder irritability. Some people that take sostanon 250 have reported "flu like" symptoms as well. These symptoms include a higher than normal fever, stomach aches, being tired, etc.
> 
> I FOUND THIS AT: 
> 
> http://www.anabolex.com 
> 
> it was under drug profiles


This is definitely correct! Ive tried sustanon 250, and the first shot (1 ampule) gave me a 39° fever! Feeling was a "Flu like" environment with muscle joints aching. I will never use sustanon again!!!!

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## Artiken

> I was looking for a post like this, cuz this is my first cycle, and it consists of 500/wk of sust. I have been dieting for 8 weeks, and back lifting again seriously for 5 weeks. I thought I would see more results by now, although I also just started 30mg/day of dbol. The pain from the sust, and the lack of results so far has me wanting to switch to enanthate. whatta you guys think??


Since you have front loaded dbol already, consider Stananzol (Water-based) Though this is a "liver-shocker" AAS, you may want to use something that can strengthen your liver, Long live mate!  :Smilie:

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## rhs

I'll be stacking sus with dbol , and I'd like to add winny to that. I've heard different opinions on winny, but I'm hoping that it'll help me lean up, burn some fat with my cardio a lot faster? I obviously need some advice, my abs are so relaxed that I look fat, but there's really not that much fat, just totally relaxed abs. I haven't cycled for 5 years, and I disgusted with the way I look. HELP!! steer me right bros!

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## rhs

ok, since it's been years, I'm considering myself a newby. Goals: Burn fat, rebuild and define, rip it up. I'll be doing intense cardio, heavy little reps, then light and lots of reps. sus250 twice a week (500mgs wk), 15mgs dbol daily. I'd like to add winny daily, having trouble finding it for my horse. Heard mixed reviews lately about the winny, but when I used it years ago, I got hard, lean and big (used it with sus and deca ). I'm counting on the sus to kick in with my cardio and burn body fat 10 times faster than normal. Am I dreaming? I obviously need you guys to take me under your wing and advise me like a big bro would do, with all due respect and gratitude. I want to get big again, proud of my body which is sloppy right now. I've heard that muscles have memory and will get back to big quickly, is this true, or another pipe dream? I know from reading these threads there's lots of cool dedicated bros that know their [email protected]#, so *please* give me some tips and advice. I want in! Peace

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## Avenged7x

Its been 2 years since I worked out. I was about 192, 5'7, 6%-7% bodyfat and the only roid i ever used was a cycle of winny tabs. I let everything go and I am starting my first cycle now. I weigh 209 with 15% bf. I know there is muscle memory because I filled out pretty good. I have a bad temper, I get headaches everyday, in the two weeks of the sus250 (500mg week). Ive been training my ass off and in a way, i feel like i am cheating with this stuff...but oh well. Good luck man. Jay Cutler is comin into the store this saturday...so i gotta show him up hehe

----------


## Avenged7x

> ok, since it's been years, I'm considering myself a newby. Goals: Burn fat, rebuild and define, rip it up. I'll be doing intense cardio, heavy little reps, then light and lots of reps. sus250 twice a week (500mgs wk), 15mgs dbol daily. I'd like to add winny daily, having trouble finding it for my horse. Heard mixed reviews lately about the winny, but when I used it years ago, I got hard, lean and big (used it with sus and deca ). I'm counting on the sus to kick in with my cardio and burn body fat 10 times faster than normal. Am I dreaming? I obviously need you guys to take me under your wing and advise me like a big bro would do, with all due respect and gratitude. I want to get big again, proud of my body which is sloppy right now. I've heard that muscles have memory and will get back to big quickly, is this true, or another pipe dream? I know from reading these threads there's lots of cool dedicated bros that know their [email protected]#, so *please* give me some tips and advice. I want in! Peace


Ive think this stuff has cut some body fat, and luckily i dont need a lot to get results. I am cutting out a lot of carbs, uping the protein, and lifting heavy 8-12 reps. I am trying to shed some bf while maintaining or building. Just the damn headaches are pissing me off..and I dont want to talk to anyone lol.

----------


## rhs

so what's giving you those headaches bro?

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## rhs

> Ive think this stuff has cut some body fat, and luckily i dont need a lot to get results. I am cutting out a lot of carbs, uping the protein, and lifting heavy 8-12 reps. I am trying to shed some bf while maintaining or building. Just the damn headaches are pissing me off..and I dont want to talk to anyone lol.


What stuff exactly are you talking about that cut some body fat. I'm going to do some intense cardio, along with fat burners, but I'm looking for something that'll really take off the unwanted slop inches fast. I'm curious about this T3 stuff, but I'm a little scared of it! The bottle I've seen said "not for hunan consumption"...is that just for legal escape route? Please advise this old school has been newbie trying to get back into shape and represent the men as men should look, feel and act. It's all good, but my self-esteem is lower than usual because I've been eating everything that I want and look sloppy. I used to love the feeling I'd get when I was big and toned and people would stare, comment, and girls would feel my arms and say "oh, my!"...I'm married to a beauty now who deserves to be with a shredded and dedicated dude, not a Burger King slop flop! :7up:

----------


## rhs

> Its been 2 years since I worked out. I was about 192, 5'7, 6%-7% bodyfat and the only roid i ever used was a cycle of winny tabs. I let everything go and I am starting my first cycle now. I weigh 209 with 15% bf. I know there is muscle memory because I filled out pretty good. I have a bad temper, I get headaches everyday, in the two weeks of the sus250 (500mg week). Ive been training my ass off and in a way, i feel like i am cheating with this stuff...but oh well. Good luck man. Jay Cutler is comin into the store this saturday...so i gotta show him up hehe


so how do I measure body fat anyway...btw, thanks for your attention and responses!
Peace :Hmmmm:

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## rhs

> Since you have front loaded dbol already, consider Stananzol (Water-based) Though this is a "liver-shocker" AAS, you may want to use something that can strengthen your liver, Long live mate!


so where can I get this winny? tips and advice are greatly appreciated, can I order it from canada or somewhere on the net, legally and real/

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## Avenged7x

> What stuff exactly are you talking about that cut some body fat. I'm going to do some intense cardio, along with fat burners, but I'm looking for something that'll really take off the unwanted slop inches fast. I'm curious about this T3 stuff, but I'm a little scared of it! The bottle I've seen said "not for hunan consumption"...is that just for legal escape route? Please advise this old school has been newbie trying to get back into shape and represent the men as men should look, feel and act. It's all good, but my self-esteem is lower than usual because I've been eating everything that I want and look sloppy. I used to love the feeling I'd get when I was big and toned and people would stare, comment, and girls would feel my arms and say "oh, my!"...I'm married to a beauty now who deserves to be with a shredded and dedicated dude, not a Burger King slop flop!


Well, I work at a nutrition store so its easy access to bf caliper to measure. If you want the t3, do it. If you dont want to eat semi clean and do your cardio, do the t3. I dont have a lot of experience with it. The sustanon gives me headaches. It also has my body heat raised so i am constantly sweating under my clothes. Good thing? Also...I lost about a percent of bf in a month of just cleaning up my diet. Though, i put on about 5 pounds within two weeks of the sus. of course its from water though. 

I am taking 10mg of nolva cuz my nipples are tender when i touch them. I'm not sure if its a good feeling or not...but i find myself touching them often  :Smilie:  jk

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## Jsik98

> This is definitely correct! Ive tried sustanon 250, and the first shot (1 ampule) gave me a 39° fever! Feeling was a "Flu like" environment with muscle joints aching. I will never use sustanon again!!!!


Funny how everyone's body reacts differently. Most people who use sust love it!

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## Jsik98

> Its been 2 years since I worked out. I was about 192, 5'7, 6%-7% bodyfat and the only roid i ever used was a cycle of winny tabs. I let everything go and I am starting my first cycle now. I weigh 209 with 15% bf. I know there is muscle memory because I filled out pretty good. I have a bad temper, I get headaches everyday, in the two weeks of the sus250 (500mg week). Ive been training my ass off and in a way, i feel like i am cheating with this stuff...but oh well. Good luck man. Jay Cutler is comin into the store this saturday...so i gotta show him up hehe


Don't feel like you're cheating bro. You're taking advantage of technology, that's all. Just don't be the guy who HAS to juice to make improvements, b/c then you're obviously not doing everthing right; like eating properly, getting enough rest, and training intensely. Good look on your journey to showing up Cutler!

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## Avenged7x

> Don't feel like you're cheating bro. You're taking advantage of technology, that's all. Just don't be the guy who HAS to juice to make improvements, b/c then you're obviously not doing everthing right; like eating properly, getting enough rest, and training intensely. Good look on your journey to showing up Cutler!


Man, he was in the store this Saturday, with Rachel Moore. He is one big dude. He was at 290 at 7% body fat lol. One big boy, one big boy. This big black guy that comes in the store sometimes came in, and Cutler made him look small. 
I dont feel like i am cheating anymore. I still cant poke myself, i have to have my friend do it  :1laugh:

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## jwar75

[B]whats the best way to stack test250 and EQ200?

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## Avenged7x

> [B]whats the best way to stack test250 and EQ200?


I would say that depends on how long you have taken this stuff before and how much you weigh. Thats what i would think....im probably wrong tho.

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## R-A-M-P-A-G-E

I'm currently on my 7th wk of sust250 @ 500 mgs a wk. I do EOD shots of a 1/2 cc and have went from 207 to 233 lbs so far. I have a feeling I'll hit 240 before I'm out. Side effects are minimal and I feel great. the last part of wk 5 and begining of wk 6 showed the biggest improvement with a 10lb increase in weight. Strength hasn't sky rocketed but I have gotten noticable stronger. It was awesome to see the reaction from my freinds who hadn't seen me since wk 3. All 3 of them were in shock, saying "DUDE, you fuc.king balloned", "You look like a rock" & my favorite from my buddy who was doing 1000 mg of sust a wk with promibolan "I'm jealous, your got more in 6 wks then I got my whole cycle".

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## Furo-master

Well, my experience(extensive use) with sustenon 250 has been very good at one cc every fifth day. Science may say otherwise, but I have had the best sex drive using this way. Cypionate put more size on mg for mg, and Enanthate falls short(to my body) than Sustenon. Propionate made me strong without gaining as much size. I always stacked it (sus) with Laurabolin (longer acting Deca ) and got fantastic results. It used to be cheap in Mexico(Redi-ject was $2.55) as well as Laura($65- 50ml, 50 mg/cc). That is the main reason for using; I would probably pick Cyp as the best overall "test" gainer.

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## goalseeker

week 7 @ 500/ started to show me results.... havent gained much weight. And Im not looking to. gained I think 12 lbs. Like my first post said, Stacked 35-40 mg dbol in weeks 3-6. didnt do ****all for me. coulda been fake though. weeks 6-now,(8) been doing 100mg ED drol. looking a bit more defined now. happy with the results thus far. gonna go 6 more weeks. Sust still hurts, but I like it alot. Pain is getting way easier. only last a day or so now... And I find sust is awesome for the sex drive. Another fine reason to stick with it!!!!  :AaGreen22:

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## SinCityMan

> Man, he was in the store this Saturday, with Rachel Moore. He is one big dude. He was at 290 at 7% body fat lol. One big boy, one big boy. This big black guy that comes in the store sometimes came in, and Cutler made him look small. 
> I dont feel like i am cheating anymore. I still cant poke myself, i have to have my friend do it


I see Cutler around every so often, and yeah that is one big boy!! dude has a hard time holding a cell phone to his head his arms are so huge.

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## biganfg

Okay, i have taken in all the arguments here and believe that everyone has made valuable comments. I am going to jump on my first cycle but i'm confused, experienced AAS users have told me jump on the sus you will get better results than enenthate (which is what i was planning to use first 500mg of it) and i have listened to them and am planning to get sus now instead of enenthate. I jus want to know what people think coz this post has put me on the fence again. Should i stick with the enenthate at 500mg or go with the sus at 500mg both with two injections a week. I am willing to do trial and error but also don't wanna waste the money on the sus. 

Big AnF G
 :0piss:

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## superfat73

good read

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## Bernmeister

I use sustanon 260 from Quality Vet stacked with dbol and deca . The first week, I had a hard area deep in my glute for 3 days or so. The second week, I increased to 2cc of sus (I wanted to make sure it was good stuff first). By that night, I had a very hard area in my upper glute about the size of my hand. I did that on Monday and now it is Friday and it has not gone away. It has diminished some, but it appears that the hard area has moved closer to the surface and is now rashy and itchy. Still the size of my hand, but much less pain. What the hell is it? 20 guage needle can't cause all of that can it? Benzyl Alcohol reaction? I need help. If not gone on Monday, I will have to go to the doctor.

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## samjams

One of the big points made early on in this thread was the cost factor. Everyone keeps saying that sus is expensive and enth is cheap. What I'm about to say is a fact but perhaps not a relative one. All the price are real but since most can't go to thialand to get them.

I was in Thailand recently and bought and used sus over there.

sus was 300 baht for a box of 3 Karachi
enth was 2300 bhat for a box of 20 schering
enth was 1700 bhat for a box of 20 local thai

basically they cost about the same!!! At least in thailand. 
When i got back I had a friend tell me that sus was cheap here too. but I wouldn't know about that. It's illeagal here.

Ok when me and my cousin took sus we did it 3 1/2 days apart. Sundays at 9am and wensdays at 9pm. Actually all the roids we took were done this way. It was our first and only cycle.

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## Aristimuqoh

I have made several cycles with 1,000 mgrs Sust per week (REAL by ORGANON) and I have had very nice results.....

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## king diamond

so if im doing a cycle with only sust and i am starting with 500mgs a week shot twice, up to 750 shot ETD for a few weeks then a taper down over 14 weeks total what am i 2 expect in the way of side effects, effectivness of twice a week shot then ETD shot? and overall effectiveness? im very limited with variety!!! but have 30 amps of sust. have 2 use it

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## MAXIMA5

> Now that I have to agree with wholehearedly.


I'm going to run a Sustaject . Anavar cycle - Already ordered it, so all the flaming in the world won't change my mind.

How would you recommend dosing it? 4-5 injections a week of 100 mg?

I've already run a Var cycle, and thought Sust would be a good combo for 2nd cycle with Var.

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## givemethejuice

sust has 176mg of test in one ml

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## fijiman09

I wish I would have had read this thread before I ordered my sus, but the what's done is done. Based on the info here, I'm gonna do 250 twice a week for 500 (this is my first cycle, so I don't won't to go above 500). I also already have Clomid for PCT. My question is this: At a dosage of 500/week should I have some nolva or whatever in case of gyno symptoms or is this too low a dosage to be concerned?

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## fijiman09

Anyone?

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## AnabolicBoy1981

yeah, id get nolva. why risk?

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## fijiman09

> yeah, id get nolva. why risk?


Would you start taking it right away, or just have it on hand in case symptoms show up?

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## girgy

I am about to start a cycle of Sustanol and Deca . This will be my 1st cycle. Is this ok to start on. My goal is to gain 20lbs but at teh same time stay lean. I am taking 1cc of teh Sus and 1cc of Deca 300 once a week. The sus was mixed with a stright test as well so it is a mix of 5 test's. I am looking to avoid the bloat look and this is the mix the guy gave me. What should I do. Thanks for teh help guys

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## Blakey

Hi Girgy

don't think its a very good first cycle. sus should be inject alot more than once a week. What is the overall mg/ml of the test after the sus has being mixed would recommend 500mg/ml.

I gained over 20lbs on my first cycle. It was two injection per week of test enanthate at 250mg/ml for 10 weeks with 30mg of dbol per day for the first 4 weeks. used nolva during the cycle to limit bloating and for pct.

do a bit more research, some good starter cycles by themudman in ANABOLIC STEROIDS - QUESTIONS & ANSWERS

hope to goes well bro

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## girgy

Not sure what the mix is for total. Right now I am taking the Sus 250 and test Enathate mix alone. I haev only taken 1 shot so far. My buddy just got the deca 300 and said I should combine them. This is my 1st cycle so not sure if it is too much. Where can I get some Nolva? How many times do I inject that a week??? Thanks for teh help man!!!!

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## Blakey

Have a good look about the site, lots of good info on PCT. Yeah you can mix deca and sus to get good gains just don't think you it needed for your first cycle. IMO. Only injecting once a week with sus will cause bad peaks as two of its esters (test propionate and test phenylpropionate) have short half lives of 4.5 days. 

Nolva is in tablet form. Think more research would be helpful for you. Try looking on Steroid Profiles then Nolvadex and Sustanon -250. Look up Deca and test Enanthate . Gives alot of basic info including doses.
If you don't mind me asking how old are you?

Hope that helps mate.

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## mmaximus25

> Not all test was created equal. Test is Test is Test. As much as this is true we are speaking about raw test or de esterified test. We are not talking about ester bound test. 
> 
> The purpose when injecting is to do so to keep blood plasma levels as stable and at peak for as long as possible, now we cannot do this with sustanon unless it is injected every other day. If I were to draw a graph on the time release of sustanon it would have Highs & Lows (Ups & Downs). Now the average newbie does not wish to inject on an every other day basis and he certainly doesnt wish to be using that much test for a first or second cycle either. In order to keep blood plasma levels stable and reach a peak as quickly as possible you would have to go about front loading. Again something that should not really be done with sustanon.
> 
> I have read sustanon causes less water retention, sustanon causes less chance of getting gyno and less sides overall. This is not true one bit.
> 
> 250mgs of sust or 250mgs of enanthate ?
> 
> Enanthate contains more raw test than the mixture in sust.
> ...


I agree u would do better making your own mix of short and long esters...

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## girgy

The Nolva that this site sells. Is that good stuff? I see it says not for human consumption???? Should I go with this or go with tabs? 

My line-up looks liek this
1 shot od Super test and test Enthete every 5 days
1 shot of Deca 300 once a week

When shoudl I take the Nolva

Thanks for teh help guys. I am 29 by the way.. 6'1" 210lbs @ 14% BF

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## SteelTown84

> I hear all the things you guys are saying and they may be true in some cases, but at least not for me and my bro. Our first cycle was sus at 500mg/wk for 8 weeks. I gained 15 pounds and my strength gains were freaking crazy. Water retention was not a problem and I felt ****ing awesome. I liked it so much that now I'm stacking it with equipoise for 12 weeks. Anyway, that's is my little story.
> Go sustanon !
> jssmc


I agree sust worked great for me

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## xxxlorider

hi new to site and steroids going to be starting 2nd cycle first one was only 6 weeks long it was test and deca . this one is going to consist of d-bol , deca , and test i would appreciate any advice from anyone on how to take all three and for how long how much at a time, any and all info would be greatly appreciated thanks

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## iron bear

Are there any of those glass redyjects circulating any more?
Evidently Sust was first made for some big animals.
The spike looked like as ten penny nail. Those origional preloads were not for humans. I was in Hawaii back then and some of our "Local Bruddas" used them straight from the pack. . .ha ha ha ha. . .they said it "hurt plenty" and
made one big hole that wouln't stop bleeding. They were nothing more than a nasty looking amp. They were in a plastic and aluminum foil packet. They were made in Mexico.

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## Schmidty

I was just saying to one of my friends the other day that sust isnt the shit anymore like it was back in his day. I gota show him this.

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## bradhore

Would you say sust is similar to testomax 300 ?

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## Guardian74

I've run sust the "Standard" M W F protocol and ED. On the MWF i put on a ton of weight, got moon-pie faced, and looked generally like a novice gear user. I tried it ED and got leaner, harder, and more vascular. Everyone responds differently to the chemicals, but timing is also a critical factor in sustaining consistent blood levels and thus minimizing sides. For more info, check this link out:

http://www.**********online.com/sustanon250.shtml

Good luck,
G74

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## Schmidty

^not working

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## bradhore

so would you say sust is similar to testomax 300 which contains (test cypiante 120mg's, test enanthate 100mg, test propiante 80mg's

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## iron bear

The old sust in the big glass preloads had a strong testosterone odor.
There was no other injectable that smelled like it. . .it was STRONG.
These things were potent looking units. They were for penetrating tough hide.
Does the sust have that same powerful smell now?

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## Dizz28

> The old sust in the big glass preloads had a strong testosterone odor.
> There was no other injectable that smelled like it. . .it was STRONG.
> These things were potent looking units. They were for penetrating tough hide.
> Does the sust have that same powerful smell now?



I've used the Karachi's and they do have a pretty strong smell to them....stronger then other Test E's or C's I've used

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## iron bear

That info increases my faith in the new stuff.
There was a time in the 90s where I only had true faith in the big nasty
preloads and stuff from the pharmacy. I got burned all the time in the 90s.

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## Schmidty

^U guys sniff ur gear.

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## Dizz28

I wouldn't use the term "sniff' but yea I can smell it when I'm loading it up

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## Schmidty

> I wouldn't use the term "sniff' but yea I can smell it when I'm loading it up


I had no idea it was so potent

----------


## Guardian74

> I've run sust the "Standard" M W F protocol and ED. On the MWF i put on a ton of weight, got moon-pie faced, and looked generally like a novice gear user. I tried it ED and got leaner, harder, and more vascular. Everyone responds differently to the chemicals, but timing is also a critical factor in sustaining consistent blood levels and thus minimizing sides. For more info, check this link out:
> 
> http://www.**********online.com/sustanon250.shtml
> 
> Good luck,
> G74


Sorry Boys, 

I just heard my link was unavailable. Here's the whole thing:


As you can see by the numbers, the quickest way to get the sust levels in your blood stream at a constant maximum level is to shoot ed.
By the middle of week 1, your there, except for a few milligrams.


On a 3cc case, each hash mark equals 25mgs of sust
So to shoot
200mgs would be 8 hash marks or a little over 3/4 of a ml
150mgs would be 8 hash marks or a little over 1/2 of a ml
100mgs would be 4 hash marks or a little under 1/2 of a ml


Also to do this you will need a sterile 40 or 50 ml empty vial to switch all the sust amps into.
**********

days.. amount taken.......the amount in the blood stream
1 ..............200mgs ................190mgs
2 ..............200 .......................351
3 ..............200 .......................487
4 ..............150 .......................555
5 ..............150 .......................612
6 ..............100 .......................613
7 ..............100 .......................614
Week 2
8 ..............100 .......................615
9 ..............100 .......................616
10.............100 .......................616
11.............100 .......................617
12.............100 .......................617
13.............100 .......................617
14.............100 .......................618
Week 3
15............100 .......................618
16............100 .......................618
17............100 .......................618
18............100 .......................618
19............100 .......................618
20............100 .......................619
21............100 .......................619
Week 4
22............100 .......................619
23............100 .......................619
24............100 .......................619
25............100 .......................619
26............100 .......................619
27............100 .......................619
28............100 .......................619
Week 5
29...,........100 .......................619
30............100 .......................619
31............100 .......................619
32............100 .......................619
33............100 .......................619
34............100 .......................619
35............100 .......................619
Week 6
36............100 .......................619
37............100 .......................619
38............100 .......................619
39............100 .......................619
40............100 .......................619
41............100 .......................619
42............100 .......................619
Week 7
43............100 .......................619
44............100 .......................619
45............100 .......................619
46............100 .......................619
47............100 .......................619
48............100 .......................619
49............100 .......................619
Week 8
50............100 .......................619
51............100 .......................619
52............100 .......................619
53............100 .......................619
54............100 .......................619
55............100 .......................619
56............100 .......................619


Also you can see by the numbers...
Your shooting 700mgs a week, with the exception of the 1st week,
That your only really doing 619mgs.





Question:

So we all have heard that more even T levels (ED injections) means less side effects, right? Why is that? Can someone briefly expand on this idea? What are some other reasons for keeping our T levels as even as possible? Looking for input here to put a reason behind the technique... 

as posted by 46and2aheadofme (the same who made the graph) Thanks 46

Answer:

Ok lets see if we can put this into perspective... I've asked some of who I feel are the most knowledgeable guys on these boards about this to see if they agree and yes, so far everyone seems to be on the same page

The best way to put it is as Andy said .. I'm paraphrasing here


Many, guys say that dbol is many times more effective when taken throughout the day, Bill Roberts included.
There seem to be less sides and more gains as opposed to just taking it 1 or 2 times daily....

The only difference between taking it 1 to 2 times a day and throughout the day is the stability in the blood .

The higher injection frequency = stable blood levels = better gains and or less sides is simply an extension of this analogy.

There's no doubt that people gain from injecting sustanon 1x/week... But, at least in theory, it would be better if split up..
The magnitude of the difference in blood levels increases with dose..
So the need to split up the injections increases with the dose and may not be that big of a deal on small cycles.






Here is the normal 3 times a week chart

Monday, Wednesday, Friday shots
It never gets stable, just Here is Monday, Wednesday, Friday shots
It never gets stable, just develops a pattern after week 7


1 ...250 .......................238
2 ...0 ..........................201
3 ...250 .......................409
4 ...0 ..........................346
5 ...250 .......................532
6 ...0 ..........................451
7 ...0 ..........................384
Week 2
8 ...250 .......................566
9 ...0 ..........................480
10...250 .......................646
11...0 ..........................547
12...250 .......................703
13...0 ..........................595
14...0 ..........................507
Week 3
15...250 .......................672
16...0 ..........................569
17...250 .......................722
18...0 ..........................611
19...250 .......................758
20...0 ..........................642
21...0 ..........................547
Week 4
22...250 .......................706
23...0 ..........................598
24...250 .......................747
25...0 ..........................632
26...250 .......................776
27...0 ..........................657
28...0 ..........................560
Week 5
29...250 .......................717
30...0 ..........................607
31...250 .......................755
32...0 ..........................639
33...250 .......................782
34...0 ..........................662
35...0 ..........................564
Week 6
36...250 .......................721
37...0 ..........................610
38...250 .......................757
39...0 ..........................641
40...250 .......................784
41...0 ..........................663
42...0 ..........................656
Week 7
43...250 .......................722
44...0 ..........................611
45...250 .......................758
46...0 ..........................642
47...250 .......................784
48...0 ..........................664
49...250 .......................566
Week 8
50...250 .......................722
51...0 ..........................611
52...250 .......................758
53...0 ..........................642
54...250 .......................784
55...0 ..........................664
56...0...........................566

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## Dobie-BOY

So where are the graphs that I have been waiting to see? Some one show me some proof!!

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## Rocz

Hi

Im kind of a rookie and im very unsecure about the produkts i have bought!
Im 19 years old and developing my body good i would say. I have just moved to another country and i bought some Testastan Depot (Testosterone Cypienate) 200Mg/Ml, Equi Bol ( Boldenone Undecylenate 200mg /ml) And Primabolan Depot (Methenelone Enanthate 100mg / ml). the mark of these substanses are ***************. And i am very afraid that this would be Fake!..Ive just heard that its very much of it out now and i HOPE someone hear can help me! PLEASE if U can, Help me soo i know what i am taking!..I have taken pictures and everything of my produkts.

I do not know soo much about this site and its very confusing for me. please send Some answears to my email!

Wow, posting sources and your email in a thread is not the way to get off to a good start here.. 
 
 Thanks in Advance
//Rocz

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## Rocz

someone??

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## frenchy

Ive only ever used sust 250 and only for 8 weeks ive gained a little muscle but for a newbie Ive grown quite a bit stronger over the last two months, which is what Im looking for really. Im 36 5'7" was 178 now Im 190??? For my first cycle it was a good start.

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## iron bear

Sustanon was supplied as a vetinarian glass redyject made by Organon in Mexico for BULLS!
It was named Sostanon 250. Power lifters loved it's strength promoting effects.
It is a STACK and behaves like all stacks! If you ever saw one of the origional redyjects you would get the full impact of it's nature. Amps do not do it justice. . .they make it look too
civilized.

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## weaz12

i had great results from sus.......only downside was how long it took for the pct to work

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## ShadetreeJones

> Would you start taking it right away, or just have it on hand in case symptoms show up?


33, been doing Sust 250 2x a week and Decabol at 250 a week for 15 days now and the results are very encouraging. Weight went from 204 to 209 and am noticeably leaner. I'm doing cardio EOD for 30 mins per so the weight gains won't be big numbers. I realize this is a pretty conservative cycle and I'm cool with that. Any critiquing would be welcome along with reasoning.

More importantly, referring to the question up above start now or wait for symptoms?? Also, if anyone has any other input as to when to start and what to use for a PCT plan which was effective for them that would be great.

I've learned a thousand times more in this single thread all the other hours of research I did combined. Big thanks to everyone who participated in this thread.

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## Mista Massive

> 33, been doing Sust 250 2x a week and Decabol at 250 a week for 15 days now and the results are very encouraging. Weight went from 204 to 209 and am noticeably leaner. I'm doing cardio EOD for 30 mins per so the weight gains won't be big numbers. I realize this is a pretty conservative cycle and I'm cool with that. Any critiquing would be welcome along with reasoning.
> 
> More importantly, referring to the question up above start now or wait for symptoms?? Also, if anyone has any other input as to when to start and what to use for a PCT plan which was effective for them that would be great.
> 
> I've learned a thousand times more in this single thread all the other hours of research I did combined. Big thanks to everyone who participated in this thread.



Using sust for first cycle???????????????

2 weeks in and only 5lbs gain?????????????

only shooting sust 2 times a weeK????????????

already started cycle and don't know about PCT?????????????

whoa, here we go again!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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## Knoxston

i dont feel sust is bad or shouldnt be used ive just used sust and right now its my fav form of test many people use it i dont feel everybody is using it just because they think it works im not continuing to use it cause i think it works it does work

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## J-41-sd

sust is an awesome compound and I have used it often with great results but, the last time I had it in a cycle I finished the last 3-4 weeks with prop and was very impressed. I like sust but for me prop is the best, the compounds you stack with it also make a difference. overall it is great for anyone who wants to go into 750mg a week of test as that is really the minimal amount I would ever run sust.

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## scottish

Holly shiznit, by using that graph and shooting every day.. My ass would never stop hurting

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## YOKED

Wow, great stuff here guys...
I wanted to know.
I have about 400Mg left of some Test-E.
Could I load that up first, say 200mg on Monday, 200mg on Friday.
Then start my Eq and SUS 375, d-bol the next week?
I am stacking it as so...
900mg sust/week
600mg EQ/week
210mg d-bol/week

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## dt1974

Sust was my first cycle, 250mg only once per week, I was pretty happy with the results and had no unpleasant side effects except for after cycle acne.

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## KRAZYPITBULL

Im a noob and i dont want to flame but this thread lost me along time ago.. im using for my first cycle Sust and EQ , 500mg sust /week and 400 of EQ .. anyone have results for this combo ?

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## mr newbreed

im into the last 7 weeks of my cycle and am running sus 500mg per week,triobol 500mg per week and deca 400 mg per week,the last 3 weeks pushing the sus to 750 mg per week and the deca to 600mg per week,dropping the triobol and adding nap 50s (oxybolon)-1 a day.what do you guys think of this as im having great results from this cycle ?.also im going to be starting my pct 10 days after last injection as i always have with sus-people seem to have a mixed opinions on when to start pct with sus-why?

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## anabolicquest24

sust should be shot more than or at least twice a week because of the short esters

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## DesiBoy

So which are the bad test in the mix of sust? I've tried it once and it really messed up my natty test and had anxiety, depression. It was the first time I tried it. I guess all that was a side from unstable blood levels.

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## Alpha-Male

> Sorry Boys, 
> 
> I just heard my link was unavailable. Here's the whole thing:
> 
> 
> As you can see by the numbers, the quickest way to get the sust levels in your blood stream at a constant maximum level is to shoot ed.
> By the middle of week 1, your there, except for a few milligrams.
> 
> 
> ...


Man, that all seems really neat, and scientifcal and shit (yes, i made that word up), but in all honesty, even if you decided to go the 2nd route (i personally go eod with sust), in terms of *real world results*, what do you really think you'll notice? and be realistic and logical about it...i'm all for frontloading btw, but i have to admit, sometimes it seems like splitting hairs with these friggin' charts and graphs (and i'm extreme left-brained personality)...JMO though...

alpha

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## str8street247

im doing a sust cycle good post very informative thanks

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## mr newbreed

> Funny how everyone's body reacts differently. Most people who use sust love it!


i love it,il be starting my next cycle in 4-6 weeks time
sus 250 eod weeks 1-12
tren weeks 11-15
dbol 40mg ed weeks 11-15

i have had the best gains least sides using sus 250 and normaly deca aswell..
im looking vascularity and lean size this cycle...
i cant wait,i feel like a kid coming up to xmas
LOL

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## Deen54

i heard you should shoot sustanon according to it's shortest ester.

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## Big

> i love it,il be starting my next cycle in 4-6 weeks time
> sus 250 eod weeks 1-12
> tren weeks 11-15
> dbol 40mg ed weeks 11-15
> 
> i have had the best gains least sides using sus 250 and normaly deca aswell..
> im looking vascularity and lean size this cycle...
> i cant wait,i feel like a kid coming up to xmas
> LOL


I would not run a cycle like that, you will be running the tren and dbol after the test has left your system or close to it. I would switch the tren to week 1-10 ad the dbol to week 1-4.

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## torao

hello i am a beginner ,so a have one question. i bought some test (sus a ton ) and in the botle is righten tre letters and a date .( MLG 02.2006 ) is this the expire date of this test or fabrication date , and if it is, how long after this date i can safely use it .

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## jcevans7

Makes since reading it. Long and short term TEST being released and keep pinning for the short while the long term TEST never really started to kick in. Pick a side of the fence and stay there.

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## M37H

> I hear all the things you guys are saying and they may be true in some cases, but at least not for me and my bro. Our first cycle was sus at 500mg/wk for 8 weeks. I gained 15 pounds and my strength gains were freaking crazy. Water retention was not a problem and I felt ****ing awesome. I liked it so much that now I'm stacking it with equipoise for 12 weeks. Anyway, that's is my little story.
> Go sustanon !
> jssmc


Id have to agree im a first time user and i started of with sus250 at 500mg/wk and only got the flu in the second week and gained 5kg. I didnt have any side no water retention no more sickness and the strength and gains i got from this cycle were amazing. I think it comes down to the individual and how they react to it and i dont think you can say everyone that uses sus250 will get these symptoms. anywayz that my 2cents and experience with sus250 and i plan on getting on it again in 3 months time  :Big Grin:

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## West Coast Winner

> Id have to agree im a first time user and i started of with sus250 at 500mg/wk and only got the flu in the second week and gained 5kg. I didnt have any side no water retention no more sickness and the strength and gains i got from this cycle were amazing. I think it comes down to the individual and how they react to it and i dont think you can say everyone that uses sus250 will get these symptoms. anywayz that my 2cents and experience with sus250 and i plan on getting on it again in 3 months time


I loved my sust only cycle!

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## Tasmaniac

I just finished a 10 week cycle on sustamix 250. I loved the results (almost 30lb) and kept all of my gains. Here are the issues I had with it. I pissed every hour or two, had flu symptoms every afternoon, had to wash my face every couple of hours because it became so oily and felt tired all of the time.

In saying that, I will be doing one more cycle after I've finished the required time off. I want to hit the elusive 100kg mark which would never have been possible for a skinny bloke like me...

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## binsser

i thought sust was great didnt have much water retention and grew like fck to be honest lolol but is good to check the mix as to know how to administer ie ed /eod/e3d


My honest answer would be do it eod

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## SRdac

> I just finished a 10 week cycle on sustamix 250. I loved the results (almost 30lb) and kept all of my gains. Here are the issues I had with it. I pissed every hour or two, had flu symptoms every afternoon, had to wash my face every couple of hours because it became so oily and felt tired all of the time.
> 
> In saying that, I will be doing one more cycle after I've finished the required time off. I want to hit the elusive 100kg mark which would never have been possible for a skinny bloke like me...


How were you able to maintain your other daily activities being tired all the time. Seems like the oily skin would attract the wrong type if attention. I'm looking forward to starting a deca cycle in about a week. It has issues like anything but I'm told very few.......what's your opinion on deca....once the deca arrived, plain to stack with sustamix half way through the cycle.

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## _GetJacked_

> I am saying enanthate/cypionate (which are almost identical but for one carbon atom) should be used because you do not have to worry on the timing/frequency of injections. Because you can front load it to start seeing higher peak blood plasma levels reached much quicker. I cringe everytime I read someone is doing 250mgs of sustanon a week because prop and phenly prop should be shot much more frequently than once a week.



ok,this being said.... what would you run with test E for a bulking cycle?

----------


## Soar

> ok,this being said.... what would you run with test E for a bulking cycle?


Food

----------


## _GetJacked_

> Food


....obviously
I'm thinking deca and dbol ?

----------


## _GetJacked_

Alright guys, i currently found an EnduraTren450 blend (200mgTrenE,250mgTestE)
any one with experience on this? 
im thinking 12 weeks, 1ml e4d, arimidex as needed, clomind/ndex pct
this will put me at roughly 400mgTrenE,500mgTestE weekly

----------


## tigerspawn

Amazing thread.

----------


## Java Man

> Sustanon was supplied as a vetinarian glass redyject made by Organon in Mexico for BULLS!
> It was named Sostanon 250. Power lifters loved it's strength promoting effects.
> It is a STACK and behaves like all stacks! If you ever saw one of the origional redyjects you would get the full impact of it's nature. Amps do not do it justice. . .they make it look too
> civilized.


Oh yes sir! Damned things had a 18 gauge pin that was not removable. You either used it or shot it into a civilized syringe before turning it on yourself. We called them nails back then lol. Oh good memories! For anyone who has never seen an 18 gauge - its like shoving a small crochet needle an inch and a half into your leg.

----------


## frizz

hey whats up im a newbie currently takin sermorelin just got tren n sustanon 300 I read what ur sayin whats a good choice im 511 185 in out gym 4 a while im 35 and the tren n sus is from bio anabolic labs not much out there on them what u think

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## mj210804

not trying to go off topic too much, but has anyone used this at a lower dosage, or any for that matter, in cutting cycles? just curious.

----------


## tdoe11

I looooove me some sust. I know everyone always says eod injections, and in not saying that isn't better but e3d has always been my protocol. I almost feel like sust had a nice kick the first day or two that e or c doesn't provide. I believe it's only 30mg of prop, the phenyl prop ester is fine e3d. Just my two cents.

----------


## KIKINWING

I am a 50 y/o dude who was doing Sustanon 250 before Sustanon 250 was cool, or uncool, depending on who you believe here. 
Guess what? I hang with the "cool" kids cause I always made great gains, limited side effects and over all happy. I do concur with those who say it should be taken more then 1X a week. 2x week is a great foundation for any cycle. But again it's just the foundation so don't forget the jimmy's, whipped cream and of course cherry on top....

----------


## Argentum

Lulz, the OP last posted almost 13 years ago... Talk about a necro  :Welcome:

----------


## nabil

Gosh I am starting a Sustanon 250 cycle ...I saw the posts ...2001 the first one  :Frown: ... 
Anyone would give genuine advise on Sustanon .. this is the first time I read sooo many negative feedback about it  :Frown:

----------


## numbere

> Gosh I am starting a Sustanon 250 cycle ...I saw the posts ...2001 the first one ... 
> Anyone would give genuine advise on Sustanon .. this is the first time I read sooo many negative feedback about it


To be honest I'm not a fan of blends, but you will be perfectly fine using sust. 

People have been cycling with sust for decades with great results. 

Sust was developed to be used once a week. IMO for your first cycle pin every 3 days or twice a week because EOD injections can be a bit much your first time. 

It would be a good idea to post your stats and complete cycle layout in the Q&A forum so it can be critiqued by more experienced members.

----------


## InternalFire

> To be honest I'm not a fan of blends, but you will be perfectly fine using sust. 
> 
> People have been cycling with sust for decades with great results. 
> 
> Sust was developed to be used once a week. IMO for your first cycle pin every 3 days or twice a week because EOD injections can be a bit much your first time. 
> 
> It would be a good idea to post your stats and complete cycle layout in the Q&A forum so it can be critiqued by more experienced members.



as he said ^^^

I have also came to a conclusion that every 3 days is the most used frequency for sustanon for pining from folks who were prone to sides so they had least to none of them sides by doing this.

Good luck

----------


## MusclePupInTraining

I have been taking Sust for a week - this is my first cycle ever and it was recommended to do this over Test E. Pinning EOD. 

I front-loaded with more sust for the first week, upon recommendation, and the pain in my butt and thighs is almost unbearable - been taking ibuprofen for the soreness, i heated up my gear after first pin was a nightmare, it was a bit better, but also still incredibly sore. It's been a week and my butt and thigh still hurts, just a lot of soreness, i think my butt is a little swollen but not read. 

I'm tired and cranky from not sleeping as well, due to the pain. It sucks!!! Honestly I might just toss the stuff (Bio-TST 250), if it doesn't get any better.

I'm trying to be patient - everyone says sust is painful especially if you've never pinned before. But dannnggggg --- my workouts have sucked this week from being tired and sore.

----------


## Wallstreetbully

Damn

----------


## Wallstreetbully

> Gosh I am starting a Sustanon 250 cycle ...I saw the posts ...2001 the first one ... 
> Anyone would give genuine advise on Sustanon .. this is the first time I read sooo many negative feedback about it


Same here :/

----------


## classy1

so i have sus 250mg I am about to start...any recs on how often and how much to pin. also i can stack with nandrolone or treb(which everyone is not a fan of for a third cycle..just looking for a safe schedule if possible.

----------


## Leavintracks

> HEY GAME IM RIGHT WITH YOU ON THAT MY BOY AT HOME TOLD ME THAT SUST WAS ONE OF THE CLEANEST AS SO I STARTED STUDYING ON IT AND I FOUND ONE SITE THAT SHOWED HOW BAD SUST WAS. SAID IT CAN CAUSE NASEA DIAREA HIGH FEVER AND ALL KINDS OF OTHER STUFF DEFFINITLY TURNED MY HEAD ON THAT. SO IM GOING TO FIND ME A DIFFERENT STACK.
> HEY ALSO THANKS FOR THE INFO AND IF I REMEMBER THAT SITE I WILL COME BACK AND POST IT FOR YOU














ive been on a sust/deca stack for going on 3 weeks and T levels through the roof . Havent had any side effects and im starting to see gains rather quickly.

----------


## Leavintracks

2ml a week 1ml on tuesday 1ml on friday

----------

