# GENERAL FORUM > IN THE NEWS >  So all are tax money goes to soldiers killing civillians awsome!!

## zabster151

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/235043.html

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## spywizard

just like here, step out infront of a 10k lb vehicle, expect to get hurt..

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## wmaousley

Your out of line posting this the way you did. In iraq we had a SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) for such incidents, and stopping is not an option. For example Iraqi's would push there children infront of our Hummers to get us to stop then detonate explosives for initiate a small arms attack which resulted in the deaths of many US Soldiers.

So at the end of 2004 this SOP for movements was adopted and implemented and resulted in saving the lives of hundreds of Military/Civilian personnel but ended up killing a hell of allot of the indegenous population. We didnt stop for anything, not even Semi-Trucks, anything in our path was either damged or destroyed.

If you have never been in this type of situation you have no business posting such topics or voicing your opinion of it. In combat its either gonna be them or you, and damn sure wasnt going to be me going home in a bodybag.

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## lovbyts

> Your out of line posting this the way you did. In iraq we had a SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) for such incidents, and stopping is not an option. For example Iraqi's would push there children infront of our Hummers to get us to stop then detonate explosives for initiate a small arms attack which resulted in the deaths of many US Soldiers.
> 
> So at the end of 2004 this SOP for movements was adopted and implemented and resulted in saving the lives of hundreds of Military/Civilian personnel but ended up killing a hell of allot of the indegenous population. We didnt stop for anything, not even Semi-Trucks, anything in our path was either damged or destroyed.
> 
> If you have never been in this type of situation you have no business posting such topics or voicing your opinion of it. In combat its either gonna be them or you, and damn sure wasnt going to be me going home in a bodybag.




Man that sucks, sorry you or anyone had to go through that kind of mind fvck but I understand the reason for it due to such lack of human life, them no us. I'm not sure how I would deal with that. Thanks Wmaosusley for clarifying what was happening. 

If you didnt know Zabster is our resident conspiracy theorist.

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## zabster151

out of line . wtf 

WE ARE KILLING WOMEN AND CHILDREN ALL DAY OVER IN THESES COUNTRIES.
your out of line saying i posted this out of line.
these people are attacking are soldiers because we are occupying there country and killing civilians.
we should not be there and are country is now completely broke because of it. 




so when we killed these unarmed civilians men and children. trying to crawl for safety. WAS THAT OUT OF LINE?

and its not a conspiracy when the facts show we are killing innocent people all over the world.

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## JD250

Jesus Zab!! They thought he had a weapon. Did you ask these people why they are trying to kill US troops? You're a fvcking nut dude!! WM said it plain as day and I stand behind his statements 100%..........you remind me of the fruitcakes during the Vietnam war, now that they're all grown up we call them liberals. Hell man, none of us like these wars but it is what it is and if you want to do something about it I would find a way that doesn't stretch and twist the truth to disrespect our troops in circumstances that you are totally ignorant of. I mean that in the nicest way possible.

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## zabster151

> Jesus Zab!! They thought he had a weapon."*they only said they thought they had weapons so they could kill them for fun. its plane as day they had no weapons, so the guy crawling on the ground for safty was thought to have a weapon? the children in the car that they knew were just children did they have guns?* Did you ask these people why they are trying to kill US troops?*they were not trying to kill anyone they were just driving along the road actually they were reporters for there country.* You're a fvcking nut dude!! WM said it plain as day and I stand behind his statements 100%..........you remind me of the fruitcakes during the Vietnam war, now that they're all grown up we call them liberals. Hell man, none of us like these wars* because its collapsing are countries economy* but it is what it is and if you want to do something about it I would find a way that doesn't stretch and twist the truth to disrespect our troops in circumstances that you are totally ignorant of. I mean that in the nicest way possible.


*also you should look into the thousands of statements of US troops talking about how they were told to start fire fights to see what would happen most soldiers do agree that this war is bull shit* 

*have yo never seen wikileaks? all the reports from the soldiers home all talk about defending Opeum fields and killing people just for the fun of it.*

what can you expect from a country that cant even tell the difference from a building falling down or being demoed. Americans = Stupid

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## JD250

You must be crack head, show me a controlled demo that places charges near the top of a building, or one that use airplanes full of people.........go to rehab bro, this shit is old and undeniably retarded.........what was the halocaust? A ploy to decieve the world into believing that millions of Jews were killed. c'mon man.

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## spywizard

No we are in debt because of the protective practices of the Presidency. over taxation and rampant fraud..

they don't want us there?? i guess they want to go back to eating sand?? 

Maybe the rape rooms would be a better choice for them..

http://civilliberty.about.com/od/int...am_hussein.htm

http://editinternational.com/read.php?id=47ddcef722fca

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...6/231427.shtml

http://wikiality.wikia.com/Saddam_Hussein

Tired of posting, go google it yourself..

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## zaggahamma

is "are" the new "our"?

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## spywizard

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

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## Misery13

I don't even know what to say or really where to start. I'm a 16+ yr veteran. I have 4 tours in two different countries. We have rules of engagement and we follow them. But some times there's a few who brake the rules/laws while in combat and they get punished. Unless you have been in combat... Unless you have been through what we vets go through... What we see and know. Then please keep your mouth shut. The bad guys as I call them like to start fire fights with us than after the dust settles go through and take the guns and hide before taking pictures and or video fotage. The media is no longer a free press, what you see on CNN, is only what they want you to see.

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## Misery13

For the record. No one pays for in monthly taxes than a soldier, sailor, airmen, or marine.

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## zaggahamma

Idk about keep your mouth shut 

But definitely be respectful 

I know I am greatful for your service and all that serve/served

And I find it ridiculous to ONLY bash our military when a few do.something bizzarre and/or misrepresent like ur saying one news org may do

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## Misery13

War is an ugly thing, but not theugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personalsafety, is a miserablecreature and has no chance of beingfree unless madeand kept so by the exertions of bettermenthanhimself.

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## Misery13

> Idk about keep your mouth shut 
> 
> But definitely be respectful 
> 
> I know I am greatful for your service and all that serve/served
> 
> And I find it ridiculous to ONLY bash our military when a few do.something bizzarre and/or misrepresent like ur saying one news org may do



I apologize to you for the "shut your mouth" comment. But I've seen to many friends die right before my eyes and I get upset/mad when I hear people bash our troops for things they don't fully understand or even before they know the WHOLE story. 


Please and thank you support your troops. No matter what. We need all the support we can get these days.

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## Misery13

> Idk about keep your mouth shut 
> 
> But definitely be respectful 
> 
> I know I am greatful for your service and all that serve/served
> 
> And I find it ridiculous to ONLY bash our military when a few do.something bizzarre and/or misrepresent like ur saying one news org may do



I apologize to you for the "shut your mouth" comment. But I've seen to many friends die right before my eyes and I get upset/mad when I hear people bash our troops for things they don't fully understand or even before they know the WHOLE story. 


Please and thank you support your troops. No matter what. We need all the support we can get these days.

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## zaggahamma

I.agree with you no apologies needed for me it just makes a debate a little hard...LOL..

It's ridiculous how our troops aren't given 100% respect and support..nobody wants war well most ppl but we have to vet back our pride

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## Misery13

You know what, I fight to protect the constitution, to give all American citizen the freedom to their own opinions and the right to speak those opinions. But when someone that's never held the position I do, never had to go through the things I have, never had to make the decisions I have, never seen the death and destruction I have, then they have no place in such a debate. Argue about anything you want! Anything that you are educated and experienced in. I am a special forces soldier, I have seen more than even most vets ever have and ever will unless they are a SOF soldier, and WE are NOT the ones killing the innocent.

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## Misery13

we are sent to battle with our hands tied. We follow rules of engagement and unfortunately, those rules have cost many of us our lives.

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## wmaousley

No matter where you go in life their will always be people who will base an opinion on others experiences and not their own. We can sit here and type to these guys who have no experience down range until our fingers bleed, but in the end they will never understand, just like a person who has never jumped or sucked out of a C-17 in Benning will never know what thats like nor can they comment on it accuratly.

Over the years I have learned to ignore such people and keep my facts to myself. Arguments allways happen when speaking about religion, politics and college football....  :Smilie: 

We have to take the high road

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## RaginCajun

> no matter where you go in life their will always be people who will base an opinion on others experiences and not their own. We can sit here and type to these guys who have no experience down range until our fingers bleed, but in the end they will never understand, just like a person who has never jumped or sucked out of a c-17 in benning will never know what thats like nor can they comment on it accuratly.
> 
> Over the years i have learned to ignore such people and keep my facts to myself. Arguments allways happen when speaking about religion, politics and *college football*.... 
> 
> we have to take the high road


hahaha! F bama!

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## zaggahamma

> hahaha! F bama!


just bama?

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## oatmeal69

zabster151 You are an ignorant, stupid a-hole. Go f**k yourself. 
Better yet, go stand in front of our troops, since you can't stand behind them.

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## Misery13

> zabster151 You are an ignorant, stupid a-hole. Go f**k yourself. 
> Better yet, go stand in front of our troops, since you can't stand behind them.


Agreed....

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## phoenix44

> zabster151 You are an ignorant, stupid a-hole. Go f**k yourself.
> Better yet, go stand in front of our troops, since you can't stand behind them.


Everything he posts is like this, there is another post about police brutality and how he would stab a cop and other stupid shit.

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## Misery13

> Everything he posts is like this, there is another post about police brutality and how he would stab a cop and other stupid shit.


It's been my experience that people who talk and act like this are usually the ones to turn tail and run away for fear of getting hurt. I'm mean seriously.... Look at his avitar. Sorry if I'm flaming you jabster but are you not an American male of fighting age? 

Do I agree with the way everything is handled by police and soldiers....no sir I do not. But unless you had boots on the ground and were witness to an incident. You have no leg to stand on. The world outside your house is not what it appears to be or what the media wants you to think it is. Please feel free to PM me if you'd like more clarification

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## JD250

> No matter where you go in life their will always be people who will base an opinion on others experiences and not their own. We can sit here and type to these guys who have no experience down range until our fingers bleed, but in the end they will never understand, just like a person who has never jumped or sucked out of a C-17 in Benning will never know what thats like nor can they comment on it accuratly.
> 
> Over the years I have learned to ignore such people and keep my facts to myself. Arguments allways happen when speaking about religion, politics and college football.... 
> 
> We have to take the high road



Don't keep your facts to yourself bro, just because the squeaky wheels are usually the loudmouths like Zab doesn't mean that there aren't an assload of us out here who don't raise a stink about shit we don't understand and we support our troops 100% and we actually do understand enough to know that we don't know everything........there are MANY who are with you 100%, we just don't make a lot of noise.

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## spywizard

> out of line . wtf 
> 
> WE ARE KILLING WOMEN AND CHILDREN ALL DAY OVER IN THESES COUNTRIES.
> your out of line saying i posted this out of line.
> these people are attacking are soldiers because we are occupying there country and killing civilians.
> we should not be there and are country is now completely broke because of it. 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you mean like these people.. they had it coming to them for sure..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNNTcHq5Tzk

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## songdog

Killem all and let God sort them out.

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## BigBosanac

How bout you go look up videos of IED's and you can talk and think about how ****ed up those are, or how messed up it is for US troops to be blown up. Get ****ing educated before you open your mouth. IED's can and are placed everywhere, all those "distractions" are attempts to hold up convoys for possible ambush. Don't tell me you would sit there in a traffic jam, or let a woman getting infront of you stop your entire convoy and lead to the possible death of each and every one of you.

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## Nooomoto

Collateral damage sucks, but really if you don't want your neighborhood patrolled by gunships maybe you shouldn't permit terrorists to live there.

I also notice there is zero outrage about the radical Islamic terrorists killing more Muslim women and children than anyone else.

On the issue of people being run over...let's think about it:

Would you step out in front of a speeding vehicle? No? Oh...

Who would step out in front of a speeding vehicle? Maybe someone trying to get that speeding vehicle to stop and see what the crew of that vehicle do while the vehicle is stopped, this information can then be used to facilitate attacks against other vehicles that are forced to stop in the future. Terrorists do this to probe and find out what the SOP is so they can exploit it.

And really, if you don't have enough sense to not run in front of vehicles moving at high speed you don't really deserve to be alive.

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## Renesis

Lol at the Twin Controlled demolition BS. It doesn't take a genius to know that a building hit at the top is unlikely to topple over. The bottom half of the twins were not damaged how is it going to fall over if it isn't damaged near the base?

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## Zackery

> No matter where you go in life their will always be people who will base an opinion on others experiences and not their own. We can sit here and type to these guys who have no experience down range until our fingers bleed, but in the end they will never understand, just like a person who has never jumped or sucked out of a C-17 in Benning will never know what thats like nor can they comment on it accuratly.
> 
> Over the years I have learned to ignore such people and keep my facts to myself. Arguments allways happen when speaking about religion, politics and college football.... 
> 
> We have to take the high road


It's interesting how people that's not in a war... fight over war. I don't think any of us in a situation where it's kill or be killed will stand around and get killed. You survive no matter what. You had your orders and you followed them. That is why you are still here. The things you did doesn't make you a bad person. Many will say that you fought for a better future. War might seem so pointless. But that's why it's there. For a better future.

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## Armykid93

> Lol at the Twin Controlled demolition BS. It doesn't take a genius to know that a building hit at the top is unlikely to topple over. The bottom half of the twins were not damaged how is it going to fall over if it isn't damaged near the base?


Maybe because an effing plane hit it....

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## Renesis

It isn't getting pushed over it had something crash into it that did not budge the building.

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## Persistence2012

It would be indespicable not to agree with zabster, in that alot of unfortunate incidents have taken place and new measures have not been implemented to prevent such incidents from occurring in the near future. Consistently ive seen soldiers being used as scapegoats, and its quite unfortunate when they were merely following orders.

The military does need reform just like every other department, including the eduction, health, finance and etc.

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## eightythree

God damn, that sounds intense. I agree with the logic though. You can't risk getting pinned down under any circumstances.

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## eastcoast112

> Maybe because an effing plane hit it....



at the time it was built, they were the tallest buildings in the world. pretty sure you dont make the tallest building in the world and not consider a plane hitting it.

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## Nooomoto

> at the time it was built, they were the tallest buildings in the world. pretty sure you dont make the tallest building in the world and not consider a plane hitting it.


You can't build a structure within reasonable cost to defend against being struck by massive airplanes.

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## eastcoast112

> You can't build a structure within reasonable cost to defend against being struck by massive airplanes.


that has to be the most ridiculous claim i've heard. cost for the empire state building was 372 million in 2012 dollars, the world trade centers cost 2.3 billion in 2012 dollars. just an fyi.

according to the chief structural engineer the buildings were designed to withstand the impact of a boeing 707, the largest plane in existence at the time it was built. 
a boeing 767 hit the building which was almost the same size. 

The maximum takeoff weight for a Boeing 707-320B is 336,000 pounds.
The maximum takeoff weight for a Boeing 767-200ER is 395,000 pounds.

The wingspan of a Boeing 707 is 146 feet.
The wingspan of a Boeing 767 is 156 feet.

The length of a Boeing 707 is 153 feet.
The length of a Boeing 767 is 159 feet.

The Boeing 707 could carry 23,000 gallons of fuel.
The Boeing 767 could carry 23,980 gallons of fuel.


not much of a difference i'd say and the building completely collapsed in under an hour. hard to believe when you really think about it.

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## Nooomoto

> that has to be the most ridiculous claim i've heard. cost for the empire state building was 372 million in 2012 dollars, the world trade centers cost 2.3 billion in 2012 dollars. just an fyi.
> 
> according to the chief structural engineer the buildings were designed to withstand the impact of a boeing 707, the largest plane in existence at the time it was built. 
> a boeing 767 hit the building which was almost the same size. 
> 
> The maximum takeoff weight for a Boeing 707-320B is 336,000 pounds.
> The maximum takeoff weight for a Boeing 767-200ER is 395,000 pounds.
> 
> The wingspan of a Boeing 707 is 146 feet.
> ...


Not hard to believe at all. In fact, in doing your massively extensive research you missed two reports:

One conducted by Popular Mechanics

One conducted by National Geographic

Both of them broke down the situation piece by piece and concluded that in fact, what is widely believed to have occurred, actually did occur. 

The buildings DID withstand the impact of the planes, they collapsed to due structural failures caused by compromised structural components.

I will rephrase my original statement. You cannot build a building to withstand everything that could possibly ever happen. 

Unfortunately the engineers and architects who designed the original towers failed to consider and compensate for the vulnerabilities of the materials used in construction.

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## eastcoast112

> Not hard to believe at all. In fact, in doing your massively extensive research you missed two reports:
> 
> One conducted by Popular Mechanics
> 
> One conducted by National Geographic
> 
> Both of them broke down the situation piece by piece and concluded that in fact, what is widely believed to have occurred, actually did occur. 
> 
> The buildings DID withstand the impact of the planes, they collapsed to due structural failures caused by compromised structural components.
> ...



so you admit that the buildings withstood the impact from the planes? so the building collapses were not from the planes. so what caused these "compromised structural components"? the fire? no other skyscrapers in history have completely collapsed due to fire. unless you can find some information that i can't find, no other skyscraper in HISTORY has completely collapsed from anything other then controlled demolition or earthquake. 

so 3 skyscrapers collapse due to "compromised structural components" on the same day, wtc 7 didnt even get hit by an airplane but also collapsed. 

whats the chances?

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## Rwy

we didnt land on the moon

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## Nooomoto

> so you admit that the buildings withstood the impact from the planes? so the building collapses were not from the planes. so what caused these "compromised structural components"? the fire? no other skyscrapers in history have completely collapsed due to fire. unless you can find some information that i can't find, no other skyscraper in HISTORY has completely collapsed from anything other then controlled demolition or earthquake. 
> 
> so 3 skyscrapers collapse due to "compromised structural components" on the same day, wtc 7 didnt even get hit by an airplane but also collapsed. 
> 
> whats the chances?


Yes, which is why I rephrased my original statement. Read the reports from Pop Mechanics and Nat Geo. Both are widely respected and vetted, and produce more than youtube content. All your questions are answered there. I've posted them numerous times on these forums. Google is your friend.

I find it hilarious when people suggest demolition as the reason for the towers coming down. Have you ever seen a building prepped for demolition? They are completely stripped to the bone. It takes a lot of time, equipment and men to rig buildings for demo. It's not something that can be done at night in functioning office buildings. Come on, dude. Think about it.

Not everything in the world is as sensational as conspiracy-nuts would have you believe.

The very people that assert that the American gov't is full of bumbling idiots, are also telling you the American gov't has pulled off the most amazing covert tactical operation in the history of the world. 

If you've ever met the people that possess the skills required to pull off such a feat, you would know that very few, if any of them would ever even consider doing so, and in fact would die to stop it if they could.

You also fail to realize that in support of these very few people with these skills, are thousands of morons who do barely enough to keep their jobs. Such an operation, like the one you are suggesting, would require the involvement of many thousands of people both civilian and military. You apparently have never met or associated with federal/regular army employees, as the vast majority of them are inherently lazy and non-capable.

Humans are the gaping hole in your conspiracy theory. There aren't enough people that bad-ass and skilled, who are willing to do such a thing in the world to make that happen. The sheer scale of such a thing would make operational security impossible.

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## SG2009

most of tax moniea goes to defense/

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## deathdodger

I understand you being concerned about civilians dying. What you need to be concerned of is a rise in taxes, not where they go. It doesn't matter anyways. In this country you have the opportunity to live however you desire. Do you think it affects you if they put tax dollars towards medical care, housing development, or the military? It does in some way, not enough to get angry over.

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## ShredMN

Seems we have a couple of people who like to don tin foil hats posting in this thread.

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