# STEROIDS FORUM > HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY- Low T, Anti-Aging >  Self Bleeding!

## bass

its hard to do self bleeding and take a video at the same time, but i did my best!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI9Q1...ature=youtu.be

*Self-Bleeding Supplies and instructions*
A. 5/32” or 4mm OD polyurethane Tubing, preferably clear. you can get from McMaster or any hardware store
B. 18 g. 1.5” long needle
C. 16 oz. clear water bottle with cap
D. Blood pressure cuff
E. Alcohol and cotton

1) Prepare the bottle by poking two small holes on the cap, small enough to press fit the tubing in.
2) Cut one 3 feet long tubing and one 3.5 feet, then sterilize with alcohol, don’t overdo it!
3) Insert each tubing about 1 to 1.5 inch into the holes on cap and tape for security
4) Insert the 3 foot tubing open end into the 18 g. needle luer lock end and secure with medical tape
5) Put the blood pressure cuff on then add small amount of pressure.
6) Disinfect the entry site with alcohol very well then dry with cotton
7) Put the 3.5 foot long tube open end in your mouth
8) Pump the blood pressure cuff until your vein pops up, wait a minute or so.
9) Remove the needle safety cover off and insert the needle into the vein at a shallow angle, no need to go too deep. Hold in in position.
10) Now you can apply negative pressure to the bottle with your mouth to help blood move through. You can gauge the pressure by maintaining the bottle collapsed half way.
11) You can also make a fist on the drawing hand to help blood flow to the vein.
12) Once done you MUST first release the cuff pressure completely before pulling the needle out.
13) Get cotton ready, place it over the needle then pull the needle out. Apply pressure and hold for about a minute or so with your arm up.
14) Once the bleeding stops you can remove the cuff and wrap your arm with gauze.
15) Dispose of your blood in toilet.

*Disclaimer: these instruction are for educational purposes only, I do not recommend or encourage anyone doing this on their own. If you choose to do it at your own risk, it’s up to you.*

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## dfwo

I'm speechless. lol

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## steroid.com 1

Dang b...you got a big set for sure!

The blood in the toilet got me however...

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## bass

LOL, you can actually hear the blood pouring in the bottle! i know its gross but when you have to do it and no one wants to help you there is no other way.

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## Dpyle

Why was this so intriguing I had to watch it during my pre workout meal? May have to take a minute away from the table now.

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## ozzie43

Gotta love the vice grips! Thanks for showing how it's done Bass.

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## Times Roman

nice mate. had to laugh when you used your machine for your tournaquet. what size needle? i only have 18 or 22ga. asked the doc, and she said 20ga works fine. but yours didn't look big like an 18.

and yer a blind fuk like me, noticed you had to wear your reading glasses!

i found a solution however, to self bleeding. delta takes my blood. 1pint x eom. next up to bat is end of september.

strange, i was donating in afghanistan, and they take a liter, and then every third mo.

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## Dpyle

One question. Given the vice grips I'm assuming the bp cuff is just for the pressure on the arm?

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## mister.fantastic

man... your nuts!

thats alot of blood!

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## bass

> Why was this so intriguing I had to watch it during my pre workout meal? May have to take a minute away from the table now.


LOL! i know what you mean!




> Gotta love the vice grips! Thanks for showing how it's done Bass.


yea very crude but it dose the job!




> nice mate. had to laugh when you used your machine for your tournaquet. what size needle? i only have 18 or 22ga. asked the doc, and she said 20ga works fine. but yours didn't look big like an 18.
> 
> and yer a blind fuk like me, noticed you had to wear your reading glasses!
> 
> i found a solution however, to self bleeding. delta takes my blood. 1pint x eom. next up to bat is end of september.
> 
> strange, i was donating in afghanistan, and they take a liter, and then every third mo.


18 g. mate! unfortunately for me eom is not enough, thats why i had to do it in between, i am hoping if i do double reds that might help. we'll see.




> One question. Given the vice grips I'm assuming the bp cuff is just for the pressure on the arm?


it helps expand the veins and make them hard, also creates pressure so the blood move through the needle.




> man... your nuts!
> 
> thats alot of blood!


yes i know, we're all nuts anyway! 16 oz is about one pint, and i only extracted 3/4 of a pint.

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## Americanman10

What us the reasoning for self bleeding?

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## xtitan1

What kind of toilet is that?

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## optionsdude

Holy macaroni! Thanks for sharing Bass.

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## SEOINAGE

mmmm grape juice

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## kelkel

> What kind of toilet is that?


Funny but that's exactly what I was thinking!

Bass, at once I'm just amazed and aghast. This is leading somewhere. Horror movies, porn like GD, not really sure....

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## Times Roman

> Funny but that's exactly what I was thinking!
> 
> Bass, at once I'm just amazed and aghast. This is leading somewhere. Horror movies, porn like GD, not really sure....


I was asking him some questions on self bleeding, as I too have a high RBC. Not to speak on behalf of Bass, but I think i remember him saying others were asking, so he just decided to make the video.

I think it's a good thing. pretty hard to video and stick a needle in a vein all at the same time. I'd like a better shot of the actual needle stick, but don't see how unless he asks his woman to holld the camera.

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## kelkel

Yep. I was harassing him about making it months ago because he's done it before. It is definitely an impressive solo adventure that I don't think I could undertake on my own, but desperate times call for desperate measures and he surely came through. Independent short film festival here he comes!

Did I read you were finally able to donate TR?

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## bass

i should have put the twilight zone music in the background!

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## Times Roman

> i should have put the twilight zone music in the background!


little disappointed there bass - o - matic!

if these blokes thought pouring 3/4 pint of blood in the toilet is crazy, wonder what they would have thought if you tipped the bottle and chugged it down instead?

Now, THAT would have been a crazy video!

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## Nofinshline

Good job Bass! and thx for sharing! 

how much does it lower your hematocrit? say 3-4 points?

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## Times Roman

> Yep. I was harassing him about making it months ago because he's done it before. It is definitely an impressive solo adventure that I don't think I could undertake on my own, but desperate times call for desperate measures and he surely came through. Independent short film festival here he comes!
> 
> *Did I read you were finally able to donate TR*?


yep. i cheated and forgot to tell them i lived in germany in 1982

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## kelkel

I'm sure whoever gets your blood will be thrilled to have it no matter where the hell you lived! Good for you TR.

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## GirlyGymRat

I did notice a heavy sign at 2:40, the rapid breathing about 1/3 of the pint in and of course the toilet...not the toilet, but that it was clean! 
Nothing but RESPECT!

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## GirlyGymRat

> yep. i cheated and forgot to tell them i lived in germany in 1982


there's worst things in the blood supply...for SURE!

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## bass

> Good job Bass! and thx for sharing!
> 
> how much does it lower your hematocrit? say 3-4 points?


don't know about hematocrit, but I know that lowers hemoglobin and rbc quite a bit!

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## Bonaparte

> don't know about hematocrit, but I know that lowers hemoglobin and rbc quite a bit!


Hematocrit is just the percentage of your blood that is solid (RBC's vs plasma).

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## Babyslim

Holy crap, I wanna take a dump at your house... Does that think get cable?

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## Times Roman

> there's worst things in the blood supply...for SURE!


Pretty sure all the cooties are gone.

they are worried about mad cow's. it has a ten year incubation period. but i lived there 30 years ago. as such, i am on permenant deferment (banned for the rest of my life)

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## Razor

Balls of steel

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## measuretwicecutonce

i just got lightheaded and dizzy..

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## BlueWaffle21

That's "cray cray"

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## Allaaro

Wow to video and do that your something else.

Hope I don't need do that in future but good to see its possible...I'll skip the video though.

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## AXx

Hey man if you will send me your mailing address (in a PM) I will send you some supplies that we use on the ambulance, tourniquet and so forth. IV start kits to be exact!!

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## GFA

The funny thing is, this is very similar to what they do in the hospital. I have had my blood drained weekly for the past month (approx 1 pint a week). The only difference between what bass did and my nurse/doc does, is the container they put the blood in. They use a glass jar. 

I am going back in 2 weeks to get my levels checked again. 4 pints of blood drained in the past month. 

Been off test for almost a month now.

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## Times Roman



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## startingnew

I appreciate the video and think it's very good info for the "just in case it's needed" knowlege.Hope my Dr follows thru with his word that he'll let a pint if it gets to thick.Ive been taking 70mg test 2/wk for eight months now and haven't let any blood.Also worried about that and the fact my dad passed in 1970 from three heart attacks due to very thick blood.Thickness was a little high three months ago so I'm sure I need some taken.Tues can't get here fast enough.What tubing did you use if I might ask?

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## bass

5/32 or 4mm polyethylene tubing, part number from SMC is TU0425. it fits snug inside the needle luer lock.

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## startingnew

Thanks Bass,just what I needed to know.

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## Bonaparte

Here's a tip:
You're much better off using a manual BP cuff. Adjust the pressure to just below your systolic pressure, so that blood is allowed to enter the extremity (because it is below your systolic threshold), but not able to return to the body (since venous pressure is lower than arterial pressure). I suspect that your phlebotomy stopped at 3/4 of a pint because you clamped the hose off above your systolic pressure, so you could only collect the blood already trapped in that arm.

As an interesting and potentially useful side note: this situation is what you want to avoid most when tourniqueting a wound, since it will actually speed the loss of blood (but this is our purpose with phlebotomy). When using a tourniquet, make sure that it is on there more than tight enough to close off arterial flow, because if it isn't, you're doing more harm than good. When BP cuffs are used in the ER or surgery for bleeding control (much better than a makeshift field TK...and no, belts don't work), they are generally inflated to 240+ mmHg.

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## bass

thanks for the tip!

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## BillyBob210

Had to sign in to get in on this (don't sign in for much, but watch all). Thanks Bro. Been looking forward to the video. Not too difficult but I think I will stick with the blood bank until they wont have me anymore.  :Smilie: 

Excellent!

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## Shol'va

You don't watch True Blood You Are True Blood..Man are you serious? Every month? That's almost enough to make me think twice about another cycle....I said almost..

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## GFA

> You don't watch True Blood You Are True Blood..Man are you serious? Every month? That's almost enough to make me think twice about another cycle....I said almost..


Once a month is nothing pfft! I have been giving blood 1x a week for the past month. I dont even feel the needles going in anymore. 

Bass, when I go in they just take a big ass rubberband and wrap it around my arm. I will be going back in 2 weeks for blood work then will adjust schedule to keep my RBCs in check. I thought about going to 2 different blood banks so I could donate monthly but if insurance keeps paying, I have no probs going to the hospital instead. 

High RBC didnt bother me until the day I felt like i was intoxicated from my hematocrit being at 55.

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## Shol'va

[QUOTE=GFA;6117693]*Once a month is nothing pfft! I have been giving blood 1x a week for the past month.* I dont even feel the needles going in anymore. 

I thought once a month was the max one could give blood due to possible health reasons. But i guess not, if your giving it once a week.

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## GirlyGymRat

how do u know that u need to do this? From blood test results? 

Say for instance someone was taking certain supplements, would the person know that they needed to let out some blood because they were feeling sluggish, weak, light headed or dizzy for example?

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## Babyslim

I can tell when I need to draw based on how a feel. But keeping an eye on your BP is a great way of knowing. Mine creeps up about 10 - 15 points when its time, i start feeling my heart kind of struggle almost, sluggish, an overall OFF feeling that's fairly profound. Goes away a few hours after i draw and drink plenty of water.

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## Shol'va

> I can tell when I need to draw based on how a feel. But keeping an eye on your BP is a great way of knowing. Mine creeps up about 10 - 15 points when its time, *i start feeling my heart kind of struggle almost, sluggish, an overall OFF feeling that's fairly profound*. Goes away a few hours after i draw and drink plenty of water.


That feeling you are having is probably because you are low on blood from bleeding every week.

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## Bonaparte

> That feeling you are having is probably because you are low on blood from bleeding every week.


Not if his BP is high. And he's not the guy getting phlebotomies weekly.

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## Bonaparte

> how do u know that u need to do this? From blood test results? 
> 
> Say for instance someone was taking certain supplements, would the person know that they needed to let out some blood because they were feeling sluggish, weak, light headed or dizzy for example?


Light headed/dizziness are not symptoms of high BP, but the opposite, if anything.
Check your BP first, then get bloodwork if you suspect that your hematocrit is high (which is rare for women, who more often tend to be anemic).

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## Far from massive

I do the same thing at home ( I have HepC so donating is not an option)

Here are some free tips, you do not need to use a needle anywhere near that large. The only reason they are used is to prevent damage to the blood during removal. Using a needle that large with a vacuum source actually puts you in danger due to the possiblity of colllapse of vessels and stress on the heart.

I was able to get 21 gauge infusion sets from a vet supply house this gives you two feet of sterile line on the end of the needle. Though I did have to pretend to be the prinicpal of the vet clinic. 

Also I buy my tubing med grade and sterilize before use and dispose after, I know with the vacuum source keeping it going one direction its safe but safer is more bettererer... IMHO LOL

Anyway props on the video it was great to give guys an idea of just how easy this is to do at home.

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## GirlyGymRat

> Light headed/dizziness are not symptoms of high BP, but the opposite, if anything.
> Check your BP first, then get bloodwork if you suspect that your hematocrit is high (which is rare for women, who more often tend to be anemic).


Thx for the response. I googled high hematocrit and get it now....dah....I couldn't discern why this was necessary and thankfully, I struggle with low red blood count and won't have to do this  :Big Grin:

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## bass

> I do the same thing at home ( I have HepC so donating is not an option)
> 
> Here are some free tips, you do not need to use a needle anywhere near that large. The only reason they are used is to prevent damage to the blood during removal. Using a needle that large with a vacuum source actually puts you in danger due to the possiblity of colllapse of vessels and stress on the heart.
> 
> I was able to get 21 gauge infusion sets from a vet supply house this gives you two feet of sterile line on the end of the needle. Though I did have to pretend to be the prinicpal of the vet clinic. 
> 
> Also I buy my tubing med grade and sterilize before use and dispose after, I know with the vacuum source keeping it going one direction its safe but safer is more bettererer... IMHO LOL
> 
> Anyway props on the video it was great to give guys an idea of just how easy this is to do at home.


Hey FFM, was it you who helped guide me to do this few months back? i don't remember if it was you or someone else. anyway, 18 g. is really not a problem, its like doing SQ injections, no big deal, i just need better equipment and maybe a third hand!.

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## bass

BTW, i just donated blood yesterday, 16 g. needle and didn't feel anything! I'll do another draw myself within a month and hopefully this will put me back to normal and maintain it with just donating every two months. we'll see....

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## bass

> You don't watch True Blood You Are True Blood..Man are you serious? Every month? That's almost enough to make me think twice about another cycle....I said almost..


LOL! bro, you don't have to worry about it if you're only cycling, once you stop you'll go back to normal on your own. high RBC and Hemoglobin for short periods is not a problem, prolonged for a year or more is.

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## AXx

> BTW, i just donated blood yesterday, 16 g. needle and didn't feel anything! I'll do another draw myself within a month and hopefully this will put me back to normal and maintain it with just donating every two months. we'll see....


14ga suck as well. Hope all goes well for you sir!!!!

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## bass

> 14ga suck as well. Hope all goes well for you sir!!!!


thanks bro!

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## GFA

> That feeling you are having is probably because you are low on blood from bleeding every week.


I am blood letting weekly because my hematocrit was 55 and its under the docs supervision in a hospital. Normal blood donations is once every 56 days for whole blood. 

The reason for the weekly is because I was dizzy and felt intoxicated one day, I can only assume from high RBCs. Doc immediately started weekly blood lettings to get my RBCs down. He wants my hematocrit @45. I stopped the weekly, going in 2 weeks to get my blood work done again.

From there I will have to see how fast my RBCs creep back up and schedule lettings accordingly. It sucks but what can one do. I already stopped all test. Ill slow reintroduce TRT once BW is under control. I lost so much strength in the past month it sucks.

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## bass

> I am blood letting weekly because my hematocrit was 55 and its under the docs supervision in a hospital. Normal blood donations is once every 56 days for whole blood. 
> 
> The reason for the weekly is because I was dizzy and felt intoxicated one day, I can only assume from high RBCs. Doc immediately started weekly blood lettings to get my RBCs down. He wants my hematocrit @45. I stopped the weekly, going in 2 weeks to get my blood work done again.
> 
> From there I will have to see how fast my RBCs creep back up and schedule lettings accordingly. It sucks but what can one do. I already stopped all test. Ill slow reintroduce TRT once BW is under control. I lost so much strength in the past month it sucks.


man that really sucks. i am very interested is seeing how you do after this therapy, i am considering to have my doc refer me to a specialist and may do what you're doing, basically get a scrip for blood letting once a month. but i am hopping that after i get my levels to normal and donating once every two months will do the trick, i believe my problem was getting loaded with high doses from the start and my former clinic never mentioned donating blood and my levels became really high, even though i started donating once EOM it wasn't enough to get me down to mid normal, it only brought it down to high normal. i was put on 200 mgs test and 100 mgs Deca ew and 40 mg anavar ed along with B12 shots and AI's! then did few blasts along the way  :Smilie:  way too much drugs! so hopefully with my current protocol i can get my levels to normal and maintain them.

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## GFA

I'll post an update as soon as I get my bw done. I'm going to ask for a script to get test, e2
, lipids the full panel. I
Curious how stopping test impacted my levels.

I'm going to keep getting my vials of test tho and stock up. Never know when prices will change.

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## JD250

Good job Bassmaster!! Very helpful video.

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## Pale1

Can we get this one stickied!?

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## Juced_porkchop

> I can tell when I need to draw based on how a feel. But keeping an eye on your BP is a great way of knowing. Mine creeps up about 10 - 15 points when its time, i start feeling my heart kind of struggle almost, sluggish, an overall OFF feeling that's fairly profound. Goes away a few hours after i draw and drink plenty of water.


I have never givin blood (other then for blood tests) and my BP is never high. I would never want to have to do that.
I take fish oil but other then that I dont eat and meat or fish at all. maybe thats why?
most here eat meat, shit most anywhere eat meat lol. (iron= RBC ?)


Man I still think that guy is crazy, Im dizzy just from thinking about the vid HAHAHA.
I not no issue with pinning. but doing that !!??!?! that guy is nuts lol

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## Renholder

Excellent video, Bass!

Thank you for sharing. 

What kind of blood values are you having that makes you think/feel this is necessary? How do you feel if you don`t donate blood? What are the symptoms?

I have high hemaglobin, just below top range, but the doctors of course say it`s fine, but I don`t know for sure.

I fear I may have to undertake a similar process in the future. I was a blood donor and still want to be, but the rules are incredibly strict here in Norway and since I have been with a new sexual partner, I can`t donate blood before 3 months or so and that is if I`m in a steady relationship. 

Thanks,

Renholder

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## juice work

> its hard to do self bleeding and take a video at the same time, but i did my best!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI9Q1...ature=youtu.be



going to go cut my eyes out now....

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## bass

> Excellent video, Bass!
> 
> Thank you for sharing. 
> 
> What kind of blood values are you having that makes you think/feel this is necessary? How do you feel if you don`t donate blood? What are the symptoms?
> 
> I have high hemaglobin, just below top range, but the doctors of course say it`s fine, but I don`t know for sure.
> 
> I fear I may have to undertake a similar process in the future. I was a blood donor and still want to be, but the rules are incredibly strict here in Norway and since I have been with a new sexual partner,* I can`t donate blood before 3 months or so and that is if I`m in a steady relationship*. 
> ...


really! geeeeeez!!!!

okay, to answer your questions. my hemoglobin gets a tad above normal and same with RBC but my Hematocrit is few points above normal which i don't like. once every two months doesn't seem to be enough, the levels keep creeping up. when my levels get high i feel tired and my PVC's start acting up, don't like the feeling. I'd rather self bleed than die from stroke or heart attack. if i get a script my insurance wont pay and it costs about $90, cheaper to do it myself, and i don't have to worry about getting blue bruises or getting stuck in the muscle. funny i can do it with one hand and feel nothing and never go though the vein, but the idiots who do it on a daily basis always give me a blue bruise and stick me in the muscle! if i do this next time I'll take a better video and hopefully Admin can sticky it so people know how to do it if needed and don't have to struggle with this dilemma.

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## Renholder

Thanks, Bass.

Yes, the rules are very strict here in Norway. A young boy died from HIV that he received from blood donations in the late 80s. He was one among several. Because of this, the rules are very strict here.

Are your values above the range or just at another place than you like them to be?

Last time I drew blood I had this. Don`t think I have RBC.

Hematocrit 0,40-0,50: *0,48*
Hb 13,4 - 17,0: *15,8*

Hemaglobin has actually gone down the last year with me.

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## bass

if my numbers were like these then i won't need self bleeding. my last blood work showed, 

RBC *5.85* *High* x10E6/uL 4.14-5.80
Hematocrit *52.1* *High* % 37.5-51.0
Hemoglobin 16.8 g/dL 12.6-17.7

i know not very high but was about 4 weeks away from my next donation, i am sure they would have gone higher by then.

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## SEOINAGE

> really! geeeeeez!!!!
> 
> okay, to answer your questions. my hemoglobin gets a tad above normal and same with RBC but my Hematocrit is few points above normal which i don't like. once every two months doesn't seem to be enough, the levels keep creeping up. when my levels get high i feel tired and my PVC's start acting up, don't like the feeling. I'd rather self bleed than die from stroke or heart attack. if i get a script my insurance wont pay and it costs about $90, cheaper to do it myself, and i don't have to worry about getting blue bruises or getting stuck in the muscle. funny i can do it with one hand and feel nothing and never go though the vein, but the idiots who do it on a daily basis always give me a blue bruise and stick me in the muscle! if i do this next time I'll take a better video and hopefully Admin can sticky it so people know how to do it if needed and don't have to struggle with this dilemma.


Seriously, I get some major damage from others when they stick me. Just did it myself and it almost instantly stopped bleeding and can't even see where the 18g needle went in. Thanks for the video, thought this needs a bump as well. Pretty easy and painless if anyone is considering it.

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## Soar

Stupid question but what make you need to do this?

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## SEOINAGE

> Stupid question but what make you need to do this?


For me and my health. High rbc and hematocrit, bloods thick. Donation place is 2 hours away and something has prevented me from doing it the last two times I've been there. I get lethargic and feel crappy and winded easy when blood is thick.

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## Soar

> For me and my health. High rbc and hematocrit, bloods thick. Donation place is 2 hours away and something has prevented me from doing it the last two times I've been there. I get lethargic and feel crappy and winded easy when blood is thick.


That is brutal. I don't think I could pull that one off. Defiantly more of a man then I could be lol

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## unscarred

Awesome thread here, bass. I have to keep an eye on my rbc, hb, and hct too. Talk about taking personal responsibility for one's own well-being, wow. It's great to know there are options out there in case any of us find ourselves in a similar (healthcare-neglected) situation.

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## bass

> Seriously, I get some major damage from others when they stick me. Just did it myself and it almost instantly stopped bleeding and can't even see where the 18g needle went in. Thanks for the video, thought this needs a bump as well. Pretty easy and painless if anyone is considering it.


welcome to the club bro! glad this video helped. its really no big deal, I do much better job than most blood drives anyway, the only thing you need to make sure of is to sanitize everything before sticking your self. good job!

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## jamotech

Id say the only real danger in doing this, is doing it alone. The rare chance you pass out, for whatever reason, while that needle is in your arm you may bleed out.

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## SEOINAGE

> Id say the only real danger in doing this, is doing it alone. The rare chance you pass out, for whatever reason, while that needle is in your arm you may bleed out.


Yeah my wife was willing to watch out for me, which surprised me cause she won't go near me during my injections.




> welcome to the club bro! glad this video helped. its really no big deal, I do much better job than most blood drives anyway, the only thing you need to make sure of is to sanitize everything before sticking your self. good job!


Thanks, it really did. And I agree first try and better than about every other time I've ever been stuck their except by one nurse at my doctors office, that ones a privilege.

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## jamotech

> Yeah my wife was willing to watch out for me, which surprised me cause she won't go near me during my injections.


Sounds like you got a good one!

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## taeyeub

Bass! Thank you for uploading this video
I am about to do self phlebotomy as well
what is the name of the pvc line you used?

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## blacktoppete

> thanks for the tip!


Great video! I am def going to give it a try.

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## Trific

I recently came across..........Autohemotherapy (AHT).........which would give people something else to do with some of their blood when they self-bleed.....don't know if it truly does anything, but some people sure seem to think so and even if it's just a placebo effect, wouldn't one like a positive placebo effect?

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## bass

> Bass! Thank you for uploading this video
> I am about to do self phlebotomy as well
> what is the name of the pvc line you used?


 its 5/32 polyethylene tubing, any tubing will do as longs as its 5/32" diameter. you can get it from any hardware store.

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## crashfirepm53

Outdated I know but you need very little pressure/constriction above the IV site. Overpressurizing can cause the vein to rupture or "blow". I've started thousands of IV's in 23 years and on a guy which great veins the tourniquet isn't much more than snug. I had the flu and dropped a 16g in my hand vein before.

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## 38onTRT

Bass,

Thx for this.. I self bled with the help of my Nephew who is a DUI Cop and Licensed Phlebotomist.. He understood what I needed to do and was willing to help no questions asked. I donated about 17 ounces to my toilet which took about 15 minutes after the 18g needle was inserted into my vein. 
To anyone wanting to do this, I HIGHLY suggest having someone watch over you as you could pass out and if that happens, it's game over for you.. A tourniquet is recommended also in lieu of the BP Cuff.. I tried both, the BP Cuff, for whatever reason didn't work as well, the blood flow was slower.. 
After about an hour, I felt GREAT. My RBC and Hematocrit numbers are very high.. I donated to the Red Cross 50 days ago, a double red, then did my normal 6 month HRT blood tests and my Hematocrit was a 55.2 (37.5-51.0)..
I am able to donate to Red Cross tomorrow (16th) however will be out of town until next week. I will donate then self bleed again for 2 weeks and hope it puts me in the mid normal range.. 

Again, bass, thank you!

----------


## bass

> Bass,
> 
> Thx for this.. I self bled with the help of my Nephew who is a DUI Cop and Licensed Phlebotomist.. He understood what I needed to do and was willing to help no questions asked. I donated about 17 ounces to my toilet which took about 15 minutes after the 18g needle was inserted into my vein. 
> To anyone wanting to do this, I HIGHLY suggest having someone watch over you as you could pass out and if that happens, it's game over for you.. A tourniquet is recommended also in lieu of the BP Cuff.. I tried both, the BP Cuff, for whatever reason didn't work as well, the blood flow was slower.. 
> After about an hour, I felt GREAT. My RBC and Hematocrit numbers are very high.. I donated to the Red Cross 50 days ago, a double red, then did my normal 6 month HRT blood tests and my Hematocrit was a 55.2 (37.5-51.0)..
> I am able to donate to Red Cross tomorrow (16th) however will be out of town until next week. I will donate then self bleed again for 2 weeks and hope it puts me in the mid normal range.. 
> 
> Again, bass, thank you!


you are welcome 38, glad this helped you.

----------


## 2Sox

Amazing, Bass. You make it look easy. But I'll pass and leave it to the Red Cross. lol

Bonaparte, I really liked what you said. But I'll have to ask my wife to translate for me.  :Classic:  She's a P.A. in cardiology.

----------


## bass

> Amazing, Bass. You make it look easy. But I'll pass and leave it to the Red Cross. lol


same here, I only do it when I have to.

----------


## [email protected]

> my hemoglobin gets a tad above normal and same with RBC but my Hematocrit is few points above normal which i don't like. once every two months doesn't seem to be enough, the levels keep creeping up. when my levels get high i feel tired and my PVC's start acting up, don't like the feeling. I'd rather self bleed than die from stroke or heart attack.


Hey Bass. I was rereading this thread and came across an old post where you mentioned your PVC's start acting up. What are PVC's?

----------


## bass

premature ventricular contractions. Feels like heart skip a beat now and then.

----------


## Times Roman

> its hard to do self bleeding and take a video at the same time, but i did my best!
> 
> Self Bleeding! - YouTube


I love this gawdam thread! 

it's an instant classic

----------


## EasyDoesIt

That's a great vid Bass. I have wanted to do this, but never found a video on it. First i have seen this thread. Not sure i quite have it all, i need to find someone to do the first round with me. You did make it look very easy.

----------


## bass

> I love this gawdam thread! 
> 
> it's an instant classic


this is becoming more popular than I ever imagined! obviously there are many who do it themselves or like to do it so I think i'll do another one, right this time, no hand tools. LOL

----------


## [email protected]

> this is becoming more popular than I ever imagined! obviously there are many who do it themselves or like to do it so I think i'll do another one, right this time, no hand tools. LOL


I can't donate because Red Cross won't take my blood. You're right there's probably a bunch out there that would rather do it themselves if they had the confidence. Videos are great. I watched a couple of times and then did it myself. Thanks Bass.

----------


## Far from massive

Anyone else using vacuum to assist the process and allow a smaller gauge needle?

I use a 21g with a 16oz reservoir and a handheld pump with about 10 in/hg of vacuum and it works very well. Also there is the added benefit when doing it solo that if you ever did pass out once the vacuum ceased the flow would slow greatly then as the bottle got close to full the pressure would build and it would stop altogether.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> this is becoming more popular than I ever imagined! obviously there are many who do it themselves or like to do it so I think i'll do another one, right this time, no hand tools. LOL


That would be great, list all supplies and make it a self bleeding for dummies. It's one of those things for me i need to be completely confident in before doing. Taught from scratch as if the student knows nothing.
Thanks Bass!

----------


## SEOINAGE

> Anyone else using vacuum to assist the process and allow a smaller gauge needle?
> 
> I use a 21g with a 16oz reservoir and a handheld pump with about 10 in/hg of vacuum and it works very well. Also there is the added benefit when doing it solo that if you ever did pass out once the vacuum ceased the flow would slow greatly then as the bottle got close to full the pressure would build and it would stop altogether.


This sounds like a good idea, I hate the 18g needle already, and even it gets plugged up and process slows dramatically towards end. I need to donate again, heart rate has been up again lately and haven't been able to. Been putting off doing it myself but likely going to have to.

edit: any chance of getting more info on how to set this up?

----------


## bass

> Anyone else using vacuum to assist the process and allow a smaller gauge needle?
> 
> I use a 21g with a 16oz reservoir and a handheld pump with about 10 in/hg of vacuum and it works very well. Also there is the added benefit when doing it solo that if you ever did pass out once the vacuum ceased the flow would slow greatly then as the bottle got close to full the pressure would build and it would stop altogether.


FFM, was it you who helped to do self bleeding way back then? can't remember if it was you or someone else, but he did use the vacuum. the only thing I worry about is collapsing the vein if vacuum gets to high. your thoughts?

----------


## GSXRvi6

Would this tubing work?

ATP Value-Tube LDPE Plastic Tubing, Natural, 7/64" ID x 5/32" OD, 100 feet Length: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

----------


## terraj

I travel a lot and often spend long peroid in places where I can`t give blood....so thanks for posting this Bass. I have tried once myself....lets just say I didn`t think it through

----------


## bass

> Would this tubing work?
> 
> ATP Value-Tube LDPE Plastic Tubing, Natural, 7/64" ID x 5/32" OD, 100 feet Length: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


Yes this will work.





> I travel a lot and often spend long peroid in places where I can`t give blood....so thanks for posting this Bass. I have tried once myself....lets just say I didn`t think it through


Glad it helped.

----------


## FakeLove

Bumping up the old thread. Do you do anything for the tubing before bleeding or do you use it as it comes from a shop? I mean do you sterilise it in any way? And if I understood correctly you then dispose the tube once used, meaning that consumption of tubing would be something like 6.5 foot per bleeding?

----------


## bass

i usually rinse it with alcohol by filling a syringe and squirting it through the tube. and yes you dispose of the tubing and everything else that comes in contact with blood. don't overthink the process its like giving yourself a shot.

----------


## NACH3

> Bumping up the old thread. Do you do anything for the tubing before bleeding or do you use it as it comes from a shop? I mean do you sterilise it in any way? And if I understood correctly you then dispose the tube once used, meaning that consumption of tubing would be something like 6.5 foot per bleeding?


I've found that the shorter the length of tubing(say 3ft) has given me a faster bleed... I boil my tubing .... And sterilize it

----------


## bass

^^^ that works too.

----------


## FakeLove

Thanks for the tips. I was just wondering the details, mainly the sterilising part.

----------


## < <Samson> >

> i usually rinse it with alcohol by filling a syringe and squirting it through the tube. and yes you dispose of the tubing and everything else that comes in contact with blood. don't overthink the process its like giving yourself a shot.



Are you use neoprene or what?


I have been using aquarium air line & it doesn't seem all too sufficient

----------


## bass

Samson, i'll put all the details in my original post shortly.

----------


## bass

my original post updated.

----------


## < <Samson> >

Right on, I'll look into it

----------


## applips

OK a question, What is the reason of this practice? Why self bleed?

----------


## bass

> OK a question, What is the reason of this practice? Why self bleed?


only if one is denied to donate. I do it because i don't damage my veins like blood drives do. generally blood letting is for people who are on trt. blood gets thick and we have to do it.

----------


## applips

> only if one is denied to donate. I do it because i don't damage my veins like blood drives do. generally blood letting is for people who are on trt. blood gets thick and we have to do it.


Ah OK, thank you. How often do you have to do that? 

I would still prefer donating though  :Smilie:

----------


## < <Samson> >

> Ah OK, thank you. How often do you have to do that? I would still prefer donating though


Depends on your BW

Some generate a much higher RBC than others from lower doses.

----------


## applips

> Depends on your BW
> 
> Some generate a much higher RBC than others from lower doses.


OK thanks

----------


## FakeLove

I used a 19G 1inch needle and a silicon tubing with 5/32" OD and 5/64" ID. 350ml came out until it clogged in the beginning of the tubing right after the joint of the tube and the needle. Other than that it was very easy. I used a stress ball in my hand like they do at donation sites and also eased up the pressure band a bit once I had an iv connection. Took like 15 to 20 minutes to get 350ml out. Definitely could use a third hand there  :Haha: 

Any ideas how to avoid that clogging? Or could it just be that the wall in my tube is too thick leaving not enough space for blood to flow without getting clogged? Seems impossible to find a 7/64" ID tubing with 5/32" OD from my country and most Amazon / eBay retailers won't ship here. Anyway I would have thought that clogging would have happened further in the tube rather than at the beginning.




> OK a question, What is the reason of this practice? Why self bleed?


Hemoglobin gets too high while on trt and one is not either a qualified donor (for example if you've had a cancer or sometimes if you even use an AI) or can't access to donation site due to location. Many times doctors for whatever reasons they have refuse to do blood letting for the medical reasons and their only solution in that case would be to take a break from trt. There's also a scenario that one has too high hemoglobin and one donation once in two months won't be able to bring it down enough. This all equals that some just don't have a choice.

----------


## bass

i use 18 g. and use second tube to create vacuum or negative pressure in the bottle. it takes me 5 minutes to draw 16 oz.

----------


## FakeLove

I did, but perhaps the hole I poked into the cap was a bit too large since I wasn't really able to create any negative pressure in the bottle. I guess that mentioned cap taping would have solved that issue. Well next time then. But anway bass many thanks for the much needed information. I wouldn't have done it without having peer experiences available. Will run the labs soon and then I will see where I'm standing at.

----------


## Rusty11

Right on, bass. Thx. Did this yesterday with my wife's help. Needle went in smoother than when at Red Cross. It slowed way down at 3/4 pint. I'm thinking I didn't keep the BP cuff inflated enough. I put a second hole in the cap, but decided not to suck air out with a second tube. Anyway. Thanks for posting this video.

----------


## FakeLove

If someone is interested what can be achieved by self bleeding I got my labs done today, two weeks after the last draw. Hematocrit went down from 57% to 44% by drawing first roughly 450ml and then a week later 350ml. As expected hemoglobin went also down, from 190 to 148 (139-167).

----------


## Rusty11

Wow, that's a huge decrease. Great to hear!

----------


## FakeLove

I've been continuing executing this and still having two issues: it's hard to get a pint worth of blood out (slows down in a halfway) and haven't really found a way to tape the tubes in a way that would make the bottle air tight. No matter how would I suck nothing happens.

Could the first one be that I just don't have the BD cuff tight enough? And is there any tips available to get the poked holes air tight? I've been poking small holes that barely allows the tube to enter and also been trying couple different type of tapes as well. What am I doing wrong?

----------


## bass

> I've been continuing executing this and still having two issues: it's hard to get a pint worth of blood out (slows down in a halfway) and haven't really found a way to tape the tubes in a way that would make the bottle air tight. No matter how would I suck nothing happens.
> 
> Could the first one be that I just don't have the BD cuff tight enough? And is there any tips available to get the poked holes air tight? I've been poking small holes that barely allows the tube to enter and also been trying couple different type of tapes as well. What am I doing wrong?


are you using 18 gauge needle? try to poke the bottle cap with smooth round object, but make sure its not too tight where it makes the tube ID too small. try using more stiff bottle so it don't easily collapse when creating a negative pressure. also try to tighten your cuff little at at time until you see better flow but not too tight to cut off flow completely. best time to do this for me is in the evening after drinking lots of water.

----------


## [email protected]

> I've been continuing executing this and still having two issues: it's hard to get a pint worth of blood out (slows down in a halfway) and haven't really found a way to tape the tubes in a way that would make the bottle air tight. No matter how would I suck nothing happens.
> 
> Could the first one be that I just don't have the BD cuff tight enough? And is there any tips available to get the poked holes air tight? I've been poking small holes that barely allows the tube to enter and also been trying couple different type of tapes as well. What am I doing wrong?


It makes it easier as bass says to drink plenty of water and stay hydrated. I take 1 or 2 aspirin about an hour before I start the process. The aspirin makes it much easier for me to get a full pint or so out.

----------


## Youthful55guy

Wow! I though I was the only person that did this. I've only attempted this once, but I was successful at removing a half pint. I learned a lot in doing so and did a lot more research, so I think I can get it up to a pint with no problem next time.

I've been on TRT for over 4 years and maintaining "normal" hemoglobin levels has always been a challenge. I have high SHBG, so I really have to jack up my total T to keep free T in a reasonable range. This then causes high hemoglobin. Experimenting now with low dose stanazolol to lower SHBG and having great success, so I may be able to lower my T dose. For now, I'm at the mercy of the blood donation center to take my blood. Problem is that you can only donate so often and that is sometimes not enough. So about 4 weeks ago, I tried a self-phlobotomy. Believe it or not, all the (sterile) supplies you need are available legally and relatively inexpensively over the internet. Here's my technique:

First off, I use a much smaller 21G 3/4 inch (butterfly) scalp vein set which has has a 12 inch segment of medical grade tubing with a luer lock ending already attached. Granted this is short, but it works with my procedure.

Secondly, I use a sterile disposable 20 mL luer lock syringe to attach to the end of the tubing to get an air tight seal for suctioning the blood out (as opposed to letting my heart pump it out like you do or try to create a vacuum in a plastic bottle). Once you puncture the vein, you simply screw on the luer lock syringe to the luer lock hub of the needle set and slowly suck out the blood. This keeps the blood moving and doesn't allow it to clot and plug up the tubing. When the syringe is full, I remove it and squirt it quickly into a measuring cup to keep track of the total amount of blood removed.

Here are some other notes I've made while researching this on the internet.
• Pre-stretch tubing so it does not curl up during use.
• Enter at 15 degrees and rest at 5 degrees.
• Anchor vein with thumb to side of the vein when puncturing (so it doesn't roll).
• Bevel side of needle up.
• Insert an additional 1/4 inch into vein.
• Should not have to tape the needle if the tubing is adequately stretched, but have several strips pre-cut paper tape hanging around just in case.
• At removal, place sterile gauze over needle and apply gentle pressure while removing needle. Important to do this and maintain pressure to prevent bruising. Avoid the tmeptation to pull up the gauze to peek at the site. You must maintain pressure until the entry site has self-sealed. If you do peek, there is a good chance the vein will ooze blood into the skin and this is what causes bruising at the entry site.
• Withdraw needle at 15 degrees

----------


## bass

not bad! so you don't even use a cuff?

----------


## Youthful55guy

I did not, but I like your idea of a BP cuff. My veins are pretty close to the surface.

If I do this again, I might buy one and try it. I just had a lab draw yesterday and will have my CBC results within 5 days. I am also eligible for another donation in 7 days. If hematocrit is above 18, I might consider trying it again and delaying the donation a week or two. I do not want to get on their deferment list due to high hematocrit, so I carefully watch the level. Self-phlebotomy gives me a new tool to do this without having to lower my T dose.

----------


## numbere

Thanks Bass!!

----------


## vbguy

I just came across this Bass. I want to say when I first seen the video before this thread(I stumbled upon it on youtube), I said "I wish he would talk and tell me exactly what he's doing haha". But none the less, I guess I get the point after reading your thread. I'm a 32 year old male who has a high RBC who has to give once a month to red cross. I "use" to go to the red cross and give since I'm O- but the last time I went they had asked me if I've been out of the country, and I marked yes as I had just recently got back from Honduras. As soon as I marked "yes" it diss qualified for me to be a giver to them for 1 whole year. But any who.... my last blood work, I was at 19.6 dL on my RBC count. Normal is at like 17 tops! So my dr ordered a "therapeutic blood draw" which the only place around here that would do it was a "infusion center" at our local hospital. Problem is, they pull a FULL blood panel EVERY TIME from my left arm before they can even give me the green light to draw the blood out of my right arm! Not even to mention my insurance doesn't fully cover it. Every visit every month, I have to get 2 DIFFERENT draws from BOTH arms(same day), pay out of pocket $400+ every month for what my insurance does NOT cover, AND I have to go to the hospital to get it done....ONCE A MONTH! I've since gone off of TRT and my test levels are sub 200 right now. You talking about a swift kick in the nuts! 

Couple hurdles here I personally know I'm going to run into. My prescribing Dr, he knows that happens to my RBC when I'm on TRT and he knows about my current situation. I "could" and "want" to get back on test but I know for a fact he's going to want to know how my RBC is DROPPING just out of the blue all of a sudden. And if I tell him what I'm doing (self bleeding) he's defiantly not going to be ok with that. I'm personally just stuck between a rock and a hard spot here personally, but I just want to say I appreciate the video and if I can find a way to get around all of this, I'll let you know and post my experience. Thanks again....I'm ready to do this asap haha

----------


## bass

VD, glad you find this video helpful. sometimes truth is not always good especially when it comes to your health. if i were your i'd answer all questions in a manner that does not disqualify me to donate. and for you doc you simply say i donated blood. no need to give him more details.

----------


## gymffiti

Just wanted to say thanks to the OP & MsSteroids for putting up this video.

Due to complications in my life, I'm constantly trying to find way of being self sufficient. So I've been trying to find a way of making those home lancet blood tests more effective. 

I tried something similar to MsSteroids method, in an attempt to draw 5mls of blood ... 

For sterilization, instead of industrial tubing though, I just used a Winged Infusion butterfly needle, with it's tubing attached to a syringe



As I was going to pull the syringe myself, I thought a tourniquet would suffice and I did get a pretty good vein pump from my setup.


Having said all that, I was unsuccessful in drawing any blood ... I slowly pulled the syringe all the way back and with nowhere left to go, no blood had made it's way through the tubing

This was my first attempt at drawing blood, so I probably made some newbie errors. Using a 25g needle was likely one of them, but I was being a chicken tbh


If in future I'm successful, of course I'll share any tips

----------


## bass

yeah 25g is way too small unless you're drawing with vacuum assist like they do at the labs. 16g is what they use at blood drives, but that's way too big and it damages the vein, that's why i went with 18g with vacuum assist via tubing and mouth. don't overthink the sterilization issue, if the needled is new, you're good to go, and the blood is coming out of your vein not going in, so nothing from the tube will ever get near your vein.

----------


## kelkel

Good to see you around Bass! Hope all is well!

----------


## Chicagotarsier

Video makes me feel a hundred at the doc to take a litre is a bargain :P Hardcore to me. I would miss the sexy nurses so will stay with current program.

----------


## gymffiti

> yeah 25g is way too small unless you're drawing with vacuum assist like they do at the labs. 16g is what they use at blood drives, but that's way too big and it damages the vein, that's why i went with 18g with vacuum assist via tubing and mouth. don't overthink the sterilization issue, if the needled is new, you're good to go, and the blood is coming out of your vein not going in, so nothing from the tube will ever get near your vein.


Thanks for your input Bass  :Smilie: 

I'm reluctant to use the vacuum assist option, because last time I had blood taken by a professional, they failed to get any blood with one of those. She basically said 's*d it, these are cr*p anyway' ... It was a very long appointment

Also, I want to transfer the blood to a collection tube, then send it for analysis. So I can't use a Vacutainer because of the additives 

The collection tubes (with additives) supplied by the website are only 2 inches tall. It's a shame I can't just put those into a vacuum assist syringe.

After my failed butterfly needle attempt, I'm guessing my best option is straight needle to syringe. Here's where it gets tricky ...

After 20 years of injections for MRI scans, I've been advised that the best place to 'stick' me, is on my lower forearm, not far from my wrist

A long insulin syringe, with a bigger needle perhaps?

----------


## bass

lower arm is a shitty place to stick a needle in, the vein moves side to side. they must have a way to hold it in place, i sue couldn't. drawing with a syringe by yourselves is very difficult. one of our members here (Far from massive) uses a vacuum pump and small gauge butterfly needle. you could try his method. i don't know his complete setup but i remember it was very simple. PM him if you're interested.

----------


## gymffiti

> lower arm is a shitty place to stick a needle in, the vein moves side to side. they must have a way to hold it in place, i sue couldn't. drawing with a syringe by yourselves is very difficult. one of our members here (Far from massive) uses a vacuum pump and small gauge butterfly needle. you could try his method. i don't know his complete setup but i remember it was very simple. PM him if you're interested.


Before they put the needle in, I think they put a finger to one side of the (radial artery) vein and pull down a little

Even though it was my first (& to this date, only) attempt, I actually found it surprisingly easy to find the vein ... Hopefully it wasn't just beginners luck lol 

Thanks for the advice Bass. I'll see if FFM is still around and if he's willing to share his setup  :Smilie:

----------


## Far from massive

Hey guys been off the board for a while and just got a PM on this, but figured I would post on the board so all could see.

You said you used a butterfly and a syringe....If so by pulling the syringe plunger back you should have plenty of vacuum, most likely you just were not in a vein.

If you are using blood for a blood drive they need to remove the blood without destroying the blood cells....this is the reason for the large needles the smaller gauge will destroy a lot of the cells.

Not sure if you if you are trying to pull 5 mls of blood for some kind of labwork? If so,

For Labwork this may also be the case...however I am not sure, its easy to envision tests where the first thing they do is centrifuge (spin) the blood to separate the components and broken cells would negate this.

My guess is that you are a lot better off using the standard double ended needle deal where there is one needle that punctures the vein then a plastic tube with another needle inside that punctures the blood collection container. These containers that you place into the receiver end of the double ended needle are called Vacutainers and have a set amount of vacuum inside of them to create the blood flow into the container as well as an agent inside the tube that causes various changes to the blood with the tube prior to testing at the lab.

----------


## Far from massive

For those just trying to take out a pint of blood to reduce RBC counts.

What I do is to take a regular lab jar and place two hoses in the lid one goes to a needle and penetrates the jar to near the bottom of the bottle.

The second one goes to the vacuum pump and on this hose the hose should just clear the top of the screw on lid so that it does not suck up any blood only air from within the bottle. Whether you use a hand pump or an electric pump, is up to you, I use a hand pump...its a fair amount of work since on my abused ass blood it takes about 10 minutes to pull a pint at 10 in/hg vacuum through a 22g needle.

As said by Bass a 16g needle is used on blood drives but that's to keep the cells intact and its fairly damaging to the vein compared to even a 20g....my own personal "happy middle ground" is a 22g needle but for those with better blood a smaller gauge will also work.

I used to use butterflys, however with the right size clear tubing ( sorry I bought it yrs ago and do not remember the size ) all you have to do is take a pair of scissors and cut the locking edges off the end of the luer lock needle so that it is more or less a rounded rim and it will seal the needle fine although it takes a lot of effort to force the end of the needle into the tubing.

----------


## gymffiti

> Hey guys been off the board for a while and just got a PM on this, but figured I would post on the board so all could see.
> 
> You said you used a butterfly and a syringe....If so by pulling the syringe plunger back you should have plenty of vacuum, most likely you just were not in a vein.
> 
> If you are using blood for a blood drive they need to remove the blood without destroying the blood cells....this is the reason for the large needles the smaller gauge will destroy a lot of the cells.
> 
> Not sure if you if you are trying to pull 5 mls of blood for some kind of labwork? If so,
> 
> For Labwork this may also be the case...however I am not sure, its easy to envision tests where the first thing they do is centrifuge (spin) the blood to separate the components and broken cells would negate this.
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge  :Smilie: 

Yeah, I do want to transfer the blood into collection tubes (already supplied by a website), then send for analysis. They're about 2" tall with additives



I've had prior experience with Vacutainers ...




> I'm reluctant to use the vacuum assist option, because last time I had blood taken by a professional, they failed to get any blood with one of those. She basically said 's*d it, these are cr*p anyway' ... It was a very long appointment


Despite that bad experience, I am willing to give it a go. But I'd have to find Vacutainer tubes without additives and they appear to be vastly more expensive than other colour tubes.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BD-VACUTAIN...dp/B01IYNVCBK/

If I can't find a cheaper supplier of Vacutainer tubes without additives, hopefully I can have success with a bigger gauge butterly needle, if I replace my tourniquet with a manual BP pump 

A quick question though - When using a butterfly needle, which is best for more drawing pressure ... 

A short & fat syringe or a long thin insulin style syringe (of the same mls)?

Thanks again for your input

----------


## numbere

Bump

----------


## kelkel

Nice work. I've got to pick me up some tubing to do this myself.

----------


## numbere

> Nice work. I've got to pick me up some tubing to do this myself.


I have the tubing and needles below. 

They get the job done but during colder months I have to tape the tubing to the needle because the OD of the tubing is the exact same as the ID of the needles. 

Polyurethane Tubing, 4 mm OD, 2.5 mm ID, 20 m Length

NIPRO 18g x 1"

----------


## Mr.BB

> Bump


That could save a life

----------


## numbere

> That could save a life


I'm prepping for a blast and took isotretinoin for a few weeks.

----------


## Mr.BB

Understand. 

For me only worked after I was 7 months on it.

----------


## numbere

> Understand. 
> 
> For me only worked after I was 7 months on it.


It only takes about 2 or 3 weeks at 10mg/d to clear me up and it lasts for about 6 months give or take. 

Before AAS only my face would experience acne. 

After experimenting with AAS most all of the acne I experience has migrated to my shoulders and upper back.

----------


## kelkel

> I have the tubing and needles below. 
> 
> They get the job done but during colder months I have to tape the tubing to the needle because the OD of the tubing is the exact same as the ID of the needles. 
> 
> Polyurethane Tubing, 4 mm OD, 2.5 mm ID, 20 m Length
> 
> NIPRO 18g x 1"



Link wouldn't open. I found some on Amazon just been lazy and haven't ordered it. Can't find any locally.

----------


## numbere

> Link wouldn't open. I found some on Amazon just been lazy and haven't ordered it. Can't find any locally.


This link will work. 

I got it from Amazon. 

Polyurethane Tubing

Media Vet International has butterfly setups. 

Butterfly Needles

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## < <Samson> >

Having the Red Cross Blood Bank on my block sure is nice. The last girl in there juiced me out in like 5 minutes.


It'd be nice to have their complete setup at home, the make shift stuff was too slow and sucked.

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## mike198

Self bleeding not as hard as I thought. I'm on cycle now and have drained 3/4 pint twice now. I can't seem to get more than this, and I have to poke myself twice. I will take an aspirin an hour
before next time and see if that helps

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## Couchlock

So we can just but two hoses into a bottle, one to suction, the other to needle, and let blood like that?

Would hooking the line to a regular leur-lok 21g needle work, as well as the butterfly

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## hammerheart

I wonder where the B12 pins are pushing my hematocrit at. Last time I checked RBC was 7 millions, HCT 46%.

I doubt I will ever be in need of bleeding/donating but I do wonder with the genetic condition I have (microcytic erithrocytosis) whether the same considerations concerning the risks associated with high hematocrit can also be applied with the same reference values, or if I should calculate my own optimal ranges because of different hemodynamic factors.

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## bass

> So we can just but two hoses into a bottle, one to suction, the other to needle, and let blood like that?
> 
> Would hooking the line to a regular leur-lok 21g needle work, as well as the butterfly


it doesn't matter how you connect the needle to the hose as long its secure. the two hose method is one end connects to the needle and the other end in your mouth to create vacuum. it goes much faster to help suck blood into the bottle than wait for gravity to do it.

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## Obs

Well, I tried this with a 25 guage needle and a vaccum pump. Just a warning to all do not fucking try that it aint worth a fuck. I kicked th sonofabitch up to 5 in. Hg vaccum trying to get the shit to come through. I got about 3ml and the needle moved and closed off against my vein wall and fucked something up. Vein ballooned up under the skin so I pulled out the needle. 

Now... 25 guage is too damn small for blood letting. By the time you get blood to pass through the needle for piss, you will be at an unsafe vaccum level.

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## Couchlock

> Well, I tried this with a 25 guage needle and a vaccum pump. Just a warning to all do not fucking try that it aint worth a fuck. I kicked th sonofabitch up to 5 in. Hg vaccum trying to get the shit to come through. I got about 3ml and the needle moved and closed off against my vein wall and fucked something up. Vein ballooned up under the skin so I pulled out the needle.
> 
> Now... 25 guage is too damn small for blood letting. By the time you get blood to pass through the needle for piss, you will be at an unsafe vaccum level.


Wait, you used a refrigeration vacuum pump.

That's pretty ballsy

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## Obs

> Wait, you used a refrigeration vacuum pump.
> 
> That's pretty ballsy


No, a manual automotive vaccum pump.

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## Obs

Btw it would work fantastic with a much bigger needle such as an 18ga

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## numbere

> So we can just but two hoses into a bottle, one to suction, the other to needle, and let blood like that?
> 
> Would hooking the line to a regular leur-lok 21g needle work, as well as the butterfly


There's no need for two hoses. 

Put two holes in the top of the bottle and secure the tubing in one hole. 

Use an 18g needle and take a few hundred milligrams of aspirin several hours prior. 

I can pull 17oz in about 10 minutes following bass's procedure in the OP. 

The only thing I do differently is use a manual blood pressure cuff and sit on my sofa.

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## numbere

> I wonder where the B12 pins are pushing my hematocrit at. Last time I checked RBC was 7 millions, HCT 46%.
> 
> I doubt I will ever be in need of bleeding/donating but I do wonder with the genetic condition I have (microcytic erithrocytosis) whether the same considerations concerning the risks associated with high hematocrit can also be applied with the same reference values, or if I should calculate my own optimal ranges because of different hemodynamic factors.


I think elevated HCT is just as dangerous no matter the cause. 

I'd assume your NHS would offer free blood count testing to someone with your condition.

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## hammerheart

> I think elevated HCT is just as dangerous no matter the cause. 
> 
> I'd assume your NHS would offer free blood count testing to someone with your condition.


Yeah but given different conformation of red blood cells (smaller but higher in number) what hematocrit level should I consider as a safe threshold, what applies to anyone else with normal erythrocytes or I need to elaborate my own ranges? Probably just overthinking.

It's a very common condition and nothing to worry about, but I do get free CBC because of thyroiditis, I run one every three months.

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## [email protected]

I do the exact same procedure as numbere. I take an aspirin about 2 hours before and it really makes a difference with how easy the blood will flow. Manual BP cuff for a little pressure and done in 10 to 15 minutes.

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## Couchlock

I am going to give a double red donation Tuesday

We are talking aspirin, like exact of willow, not acetaminophen, correct?

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## [email protected]

Plain old aspirin. ........	acetylsalicylic acid. Not Tylenol which is acetaminophen.

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## bass

> I am going to give a double red donation Tuesday
> 
> We are talking aspirin, like exact of willow, not acetaminophen, correct?


just make sure you answer NO when they ask if you've taken aspirin or blood thinners.

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## Obs

> just make sure you answer NO when they ask if you've taken aspirin or blood thinners.


I just donated for the first time. It firmly planted me on my ass. Finally getting energy back after sleeping and eating like a horse. Did not expect it would affect me in any way. Glad thats over. Hats off to you for doing it youself bass.

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## Sacharidacek

I am glad that I can thanks to Bass for instructional video.. It works really good. Btw I am not doing this because I have high RBC from steroids , but because I had high iron. Guys if you want stay healthy. Make sure that ferritin (storage protein for iron) will stay under 100 ideally around 50. Reference range is to high even 100 is not ideal leat alone 300-400.. You don't need to have hemochromatosis. Every person accumulate iron over time. Especially bodybuilders who are eating crazy amounts of red meat and overall high amounts of iron.. Your body can eliminate excess of iron only via bleeding... Btw this is the main reason why females live longer and why they have much lower incidence of cardiovascular diseases, strokes, heart attacks etc.. Because they are losing blood monthly. But in menopause they will start to accumulate iron as well.. But male is accumulating iron in the body from age 18-19.. We do need iron. Especially when we grow as kids and pregnant woman needs more iron, but adults need only small amount of iron and it should be only in circulation. But these days when we have fortification of flour, flour products, cereals etc..( one serving of cornflakes has around 15mg of toxic form of inorganic iron..) Then we eat a lot of muscle meat, then alcohol and sugar will increase iron absorbtion etc.. basically all degenerative diseases from cancer, MS, alzheimer etc.. It is all related to increased oxidative stress from to much iron in the body.. So please just make sure that you know ferritin is not above 100 (ideally 50) and keep donate blood it is win win for everybody.. I was gym rat on roids, but now I am just about health. I had ferritin 300. I was feeling like shit. I can't donate, but it is ok now when I know how to self bleed.  :Smilie:  Now my ferritin is under 100 and I feel much better. If is someone interested in this topic. There is some easy to understand info..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fccu-V06eS8&t=8s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQI-9lAsNwo&t=1s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrdy5IcCLis&t=13s
https://freetheanimal.com/2015/06/en...verything.html

first attempt was epic fail 10ml


second attempt was better with thicker needle .. 250ml


And now its going ok 500ml no problem. Next time I will try aspirin before..


Also friend who is really health oriented is knowledgeable about bloodletting and keeping iron low etc.. He can donate, but If I can do it. He can also apparently..  :Big Grin:

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## Ashop

> I just donated for the first time. It firmly planted me on my ass. Finally getting energy back after sleeping and eating like a horse. Did not expect it would affect me in any way. Glad thats over. Hats off to you for doing it youself bass.



It can definitely do that too you. It takes me about a day and a half to feel like I've fully recovered.
Well worth doing though.

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## gymffiti

> I am glad that I can thanks to Bass for instructional video.. It works really good. Btw I am not doing this because I have high RBC from steroids , but because I had high iron. Guys if you want stay healthy. Make sure that ferritin (storage protein for iron) will stay under 100 ideally around 50. Reference range is to high even 100 is not ideal leat alone 300-400.. You don't need to have hemochromatosis. Every person accumulate iron over time. Especially bodybuilders who are eating crazy amounts of red meat and overall high amounts of iron.. Your body can eliminate excess of iron only via bleeding... Btw this is the main reason why females live longer and why they have much lower incidence of cardiovascular diseases, strokes, heart attacks etc.. Because they are losing blood monthly. But in menopause they will start to accumulate iron as well.. But male is accumulating iron in the body from age 18-19.. We do need iron. Especially when we grow as kids and pregnant woman needs more iron, but adults need only small amount of iron and it should be only in circulation. But these days when we have fortification of flour, flour products, cereals etc..( one serving of cornflakes has around 15mg of toxic form of inorganic iron..) Then we eat a lot of muscle meat, then alcohol and sugar will increase iron absorbtion etc.. basically all degenerative diseases from cancer, MS, alzheimer etc.. It is all related to increased oxidative stress from to much iron in the body.. So please just make sure that you know ferritin is not above 100 (ideally 50) and keep donate blood it is win win for everybody.. I was gym rat on roids, but now I am just about health. I had ferritin 300. I was feeling like shit. I can't donate, but it is ok now when I know how to self bleed.  Now my ferritin is under 100 and I feel much better. If is someone interested in this topic. There is some easy to understand info..
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fccu-V06eS8&t=8s
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQI-9lAsNwo&t=1s
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrdy5IcCLis&t=13s
> https://freetheanimal.com/2015/06/en...verything.html
> 
> first attempt was epic fail 10ml
> 
> 
> ...


Very interesting

My last checked Iron level was 11. umol/L, which I thought was low / low end of normal range

However, my Ferritin 165. ug/L

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## DocToxin8

I need to start bleeding properly. 
I've been lazy and quick so I've just took aspirin and placed a 21G in my calf,
a sort of torniquet over the blood vessel to increase pressure,
and A measuring cup that it strips down into. 

Usually just 100-110mls this way. 
Got myself 18g needles to now it's gonna be different. 
Has some hospital equipment like veneflon, catheters, pipes for this and that. 
So shouldn't have a problem making a pump now. 

Was wondering if I could use water pressure like in an tap water vacuum apparatus.

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## DocToxin8

Got hematocrit at 0,50 now (ref 0,4-0,5 for men)
RBCs little high
Hemoglobin a little high

Shall find MCV and the rest.

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## Sacharidacek

> Very interesting
> 
> My last checked Iron level was 11. umol/L, which I thought was low / low end of normal range
> 
> However, my Ferritin 165. ug/L


Bro you don't understand how this works. IRON in SERUM DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING. You can't have high serum iron. You would be already dead.. The body will hide excess of iron to the tissues- organs and transport proteins like ferritin and yes 165 is already way too high.. Watch videos I posted. You should keep ferritin under 50 ideally.. Iron serum does not matter. As long as you don't have low Hemoglobin and RBC you are ok and you can keep donating blood. The less iron zou have in the body the better. Iron should be ONLY in cyrculation = hemoglobin=RBC and not stored in the liver, heart, etc.. where it can cause oxidative stress which is depleting all antioxidants vitC, E, A, magnesium, glutathion etc.. Btw don't forget that ALL pathogens, viruses, cancer cells, bacteria, fungi, candida etc.. They all Need iron.. So if you have only maximum minimum of iron in the body in red blood cells. All these bastards have no food.. But if they have iron everywhere. Guess what wil happened.. Just don't complicate things guys. Keep donate blood every two months and here and there check ferritin if it is good number. Thats it..

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## Sacharidacek

> I need to start bleeding properly. 
> I've been lazy and quick so I've just took aspirin and placed a 21G in my calf,
> a sort of torniquet over the blood vessel to increase pressure,
> and A measuring cup that it strips down into. 
> 
> Usually just 100-110mls this way. 
> Got myself 18g needles to now it's gonna be different. 
> Has some hospital equipment like veneflon, catheters, pipes for this and that. 
> So shouldn't have a problem making a pump now. 
> ...


You don't need any pump. Especially if you have higher BP.. Just dont eat fats 14 hours before, be well hydrated and take some aspirin before + you can also take some vit E or more omega 3.. All good blood thinners. Make sure that you have tight arm, so there will be enough pressure on veins. It will take max 10 min to get 500ml of blood..

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## Mr.BB

> I am glad that I can thanks to Bass for instructional video.. It works really good. Btw I am not doing this because I have high RBC from steroids , but because I had high iron. Guys if you want stay healthy. Make sure that ferritin (storage protein for iron) will stay under 100 ideally around 50. Reference range is to high even 100 is not ideal leat alone 300-400.. You don't need to have hemochromatosis. Every person accumulate iron over time. Especially bodybuilders who are eating crazy amounts of red meat and overall high amounts of iron.. Your body can eliminate excess of iron only via bleeding... Btw this is the main reason why females live longer and why they have much lower incidence of cardiovascular diseases, strokes, heart attacks etc.. Because they are losing blood monthly. But in menopause they will start to accumulate iron as well.. But male is accumulating iron in the body from age 18-19.. We do need iron. Especially when we grow as kids and pregnant woman needs more iron, but adults need only small amount of iron and it should be only in circulation. But these days when we have fortification of flour, flour products, cereals etc..( one serving of cornflakes has around 15mg of toxic form of inorganic iron..) Then we eat a lot of muscle meat, then alcohol and sugar will increase iron absorbtion etc.. basically all degenerative diseases from cancer, MS, alzheimer etc.. It is all related to increased oxidative stress from to much iron in the body.. So please just make sure that you know ferritin is not above 100 (ideally 50) and keep donate blood it is win win for everybody.. I was gym rat on roids, but now I am just about health. I had ferritin 300. I was feeling like shit. I can't donate, but it is ok now when I know how to self bleed.  Now my ferritin is under 100 and I feel much better. If is someone interested in this topic. There is some easy to understand info..
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fccu-V06eS8&t=8s
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQI-9lAsNwo&t=1s
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrdy5IcCLis&t=13s
> https://freetheanimal.com/2015/06/en...verything.html
> 
> first attempt was epic fail 10ml
> 
> 
> ...


Do you mind backing your iron claims with actual medical studies or facts?

Although high iron is certainly not ideal I disagree with your statement to keep iron in minimal levels. Iron is an important element in our body, and its not "food for viruses, bacteria...", thats complete nonsense and false information.

Healthy levels of iron thats what one should aim for.

I will even debate whats is worse, low iron levels or higher hematocrit. In a low iron levels situation your body will try to preserve iron by elevating coagulation factor VIII, increasing the chance for clotting : Low serum iron levels are associated with elevated plasma levels of coagulation factor VIII and pulmonary emboli/deep venous thromboses in replicate cohorts of patients with hereditary haemorrhagic telangiectasia

Please read correctly what Im posting. Im not promoting iron indiscriminately, Im saying you should have normal, healthy iron levels.

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## Sacharidacek

Hm I was writing long post with some links, but I dont have 25 posts so there are some restrictions or what.. Anyway I will not argue with you if you can write something like this..

"and its not "food for viruses, bacteria...", thats complete nonsense and false information."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4331421/
"Iron is crucial for every kind of living organism, including plants, bacteria, animals and humans, to transport oxygen (through the haemoglobin in animals and humans) and to produce energy (through electron transfer in the mitochondrial respiratory chain). In addition, iron is essential for many metabolic processes, including DNA repair and replication, regulation of gene expression and so on. Many pathogens are thus highly dependent on iron supply and use different pathways to acquire or even steal iron from the environment or from their host"

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## geezuschrist

jesus christ I feel like a pussy I could never do that haha

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## jmega

so we can use any vein to self bleed? I am having a hard time finding the vein at the elbow, but have other veins along the forearm that are clearly visible.

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## Sacharidacek

> so we can use any vein to self bleed? I am having a hard time finding the vein at the elbow, but have other veins along the forearm that are clearly visible.


You can bleed from every vein for sure, but I am not sure if you will be able to collect 500 ml of blood.. Just go donate blood if you can..

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## Obs

Bump.

Bass, the pioneer...

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## EDCG19

I've done it once

Not bad and simple to do if you can get the vein

I had to do this only one time before, actually ended up changing my TRT a little lower to get stable bloods and allowed to donate every 3-4 months 

RBC issues..

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## EDCG19

> You can bleed from every vein for sure, but I am not sure if you will be able to collect 500 ml of blood.. Just go donate blood if you can..


Some people go over the hemogloin limit and can't donate blood..

Highest Ive had mine shoot up is 20 and 57 for hematrocrti...

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## EDCG19

> Bump.
> 
> Bass, the pioneer...


Strong bump from the grave....

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## Obs

> Strong bump from the grave....


I was trying to do this the other day. Bass's idea with the container and two tubes is pretty awesome. It takes a guy thinking outside the box with a set of nuts to do what he did. Full respect given. Other boards scoff at the idea of self bleeding but some can't do it any other way. Bass solved their dilemma.

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## Youthful55guy

Your first option should always be to reevaluate you T dose protocol. Small frequent doses based on labs to keep your Free T up to at least the 50th percentile at the nadir of the injection cycle (i.e.,just prior to the next scheduled dose) should also keep your hemoglobin within range. If you need a refresher on what I mean by small frequent dosing, please visit this thread: https://forums.steroid.com/hormone-r...rting-trt.html

It is a good idea to donate blood as frequently as allowed. Combining this with dosing that keeps you T within physiological ranges should mean that self-phlebotomies should never be needed. yes, I realize that some guys are not eligible for blood donation, and for them, careful and wise dosing is a must.

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