# GENERAL FORUM > IN THE NEWS >  I hope we are proud of ourselves (graphic pics)

## Panzerfaust

*Edit* Not sure why the pics aren't posting, copy and paste. Might be better but they are graphic to say the least


I saw these and just want to puke, I am so sick of this world and how mainly America and Americans don't give a shit about anything other than themselves and cannot see the world from any other perspective. We point the finger at nations "You are bad", "We are good" and everyone jumps on the bandwagon. There is a difference between being Patriotic and being a blind sheep.

This makes me extremely sad and sick as I sit here and type this. I am sitting comfortably in my apartment well fed and no worries compared to these people. 

Israel is brutalising Palastenians as we speak, who is wrong, who is right? Knowing the history of this displaced people (Jews) I feel bad for the Palastenians. They have no chance against the Israeli war machine which is financed and backed by The United States of America. 

The following pics are not being shown by the US media, wonder why? Huh? Israel is not leeting media into Gaza, why not? Don't want people to see the slaughter?

Stop and imagine you in this situation, if you even can? This goes beyond the childish relgious differences etc. These are human beings being slaughtered and it tears me up and I feel bad for all of them.

http://api.ning.com/files/*Bblg2do*j...dMBV/2610x.jpg


http://api.ning.com/files/*Bblg2do*j...0Uw/14610x.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/*Bblg2do*j...79b/13610x.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/*Bblg2do*j...bxWq/9610x.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/*Bblg2do*j...H53W/6610x.jpg

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## Panzerfaust

http://api.ning.com/files/*Bblg2do*j...UROp/1610x.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/XI33w7RUJ-...fpuu/29783.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/*Bblg2do*j...Qik/19610x.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/XI33w7RUJ-...0VO6/29786.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/XI33w7RUJ-...1ciC/29933.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/XI33w7RUJ-...Pi/96934_2.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/XI33w7RUJ-...mPm/gaza11.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/XI33w7RUJ-...AW2/gaza47.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/XI33w7RUJ-...9Hg/gaza60.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/XI33w7RUJ-...zrv/gaza65.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/XI33w7RUJ-...-Hx/gaza68.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/XI33w7RUJ-...nkY/gaza76.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/XI33w7RUJ-...IcG/gaza85.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/XI33w7RUJ-...eapon_legs.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/XI33w7RUJ-...a_dead_boy.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/XI33w7RUJ-...olten_head.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/XI33w7RUJ-...massacro35.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/XI33w7RUJ-...6609_63053.jpg

This one really hurts me:

http://api.ning.com/files/XI33w7RUJ-...two20babie.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/XI33w7RUJ-...5W/pic.php.jpg

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## xlxBigSexyxlx

damn. 


That's pretty messed up

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## Panzerfaust

Our government should NOT be involved in this massacre whatsoever and call upon all nations to come down hard on Israel to stop this inhumane slaughter.

Our government's reluctance to do so and it's obvious backing of Israel should tell you all you need to know. Makes me sick to call myself an American when this is how we are viewed by the world and mainly the Muslim world.

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## Flagg

I heard on the radio today, that Cheneys words over the whole sitaution was

"Hamas should stop firing rockets"

I was sure that inhuman **** would say "So?", seeing as that's his basic outlook to everything in life that isn't affecting him.

Makes me sick.

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## Panzerfaust

I have seen comments on these pics on another board, this is exactly what I am talking about. Typical American "I'm an American and better than anyone in the world and Israel is right because the government says so". Why are we so far removed from the rest of the world? Do we not feel anything for others? Goddamnit I no longer know what to think anymore. 


"I hope someday the Pals will start loving their children more than they hate the Jews. Maybe then we'll see peace"

"You pull a tigers tail, be ready to deal with his teeth."

"Dont start a ****in war if you cant handle getting blown the **** to oblivion. This is also a warning to Iran who would love to wipe Israel off the face of the map."

"the pics don't work for me. all i see are a bunch of dead terrorists and i feel nothing for them."


Disgusting!

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## xlxBigSexyxlx

Yeah, last I heard was Bush saying the Hamas needed to stop or something.


How is America backing Israel? and why? Sorry, I'm not political/history savvy

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## Flagg

Is it true that Bush passed a law stating that neither him, Cheney or Rumsfeld could be tried as War Criminals after they step down from Office?

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## xlxBigSexyxlx

Also, how did all of this start? I know they have been fighting forever, but if Hamas are sending rockets into Israel, shouldn't Israel do something about it?

lol, educate me...somebody

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## Panzerfaust

Here is a video before emergency crews got to the scene....now stop and listen the next time you hear some dimwit TV-talking-head or Zionist sympathizer say something like "Israel has a right to defend itself" bear in mind the photos above and the video. Then decide for yourself who is to be believed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4cYtBmtTFo

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## Flagg

> Also, how did all of this start? I know they have been fighting forever, but if Hamas are sending rockets into Israel, shouldn't Israel do something about it?
> 
> lol, educate me...somebody



Well apparantly, this is Israel doing something about it. They claimed Hamas was digging tunnels under Israel, none of which has been cooberated by outside sources.

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## ilovesus

Those poor kids.

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## Panzerfaust

> Those poor kids.



"Yeah, but it's all cool. I'm gonna go grab a drink and play some XBOX 360, better them than me"

^^Typical American way of thinking.

Who is there in the world that can put enough pressure on Israel to stop this slaughter? Oh wait...that would be America..but luckily for Israel they have America by the balls and it does whatever they want. So American media and the government will now lead us all to believe this is all Hamas' fault...poor Jews bla bla bla

The area of Gaza is so densely populated it is impossible not to have civilians, women and children around. The Israeli's know this yet continue to bomb the shit out of everyhting then try to tell everyone Palestinians are hiding behind women and children to cover up their murderous attacks.

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## Panzerfaust

Here is an Objective Analysis on this situation by a US Author





> http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/w...257130539.html
> 
> There are two completely different versions of what is currently happening in Gaza.
> 
> In the Israeli and North American press version, Hamas - 'Islamic terrorists' backed by Iran - have in an unprovoked attack fired deadly rockets on innocent Israel with the intent of destroying the Jewish state.
> 
> North American politicians and the media say Israel "has the right to defend itself". 
> 
> True enough. No Israeli government can tolerate rockets hitting its towns, even though the casualty totals have been less than the car crash fatalities registered during a single holiday weekend on Israel's roads. 
> ...

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## Panzerfaust

Gaza is nothing more than a Concentration Camp for Palestinians, do some reading on this area (223 mile area) and then think how the Economic cutoff from Israel is starving all of these people out. 

They fire back with "homemade' rockets? While Israel has top of the line military equipment courtesy of the Red, White and Blue (US).

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## Voice of Reason

Why the **** do you say "I hope we are proud of ourselves" I got enough to deal with in my own life and family to give a shit if morons thousands of miles away wanna kill each other for some prime beach front real estate. **** em I hope they all kill their dumbasses into nothingness, less dumb ****s following a bible based bullshit agenda... World keeps spinning while I keep grinning tho it makes me sick I ain't gonna do shit.

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## Panzerfaust

> Why the **** do you say "I hope we are proud of ourselves" I got enough to deal with in my own life and family to give a shit if morons thousands of miles away wanna kill each other for some prime beach front real estate. **** em I hope they all kill their dumbasses into nothingness, less dumb ****s following a bible based bullshit agenda... World keeps spinning while I keep grinning tho it makes me sick I ain't gonna do shit.



Spoken like a dumbass! Congrats!

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## Voice of Reason

You know your all talk and whining. If your so emphatic about what's going on over there then do something, not some bitch shit but give your life to help end a little suffering that these people are doomed to end up with anyways.

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## Voice of Reason

Well what are you waiting for superman?... call up Ron Paul and go tag team the whole Israeli army...

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## amcon

two things... voice of reason the avatar name is that like calling the bald guy curly - lol. dude your harsh - not wrong, it is your oppion...

as for israel, and palistine - dude, if this is not what is suposta happen why hasnt the un been brought in and tons of presure put on Israel??? look, i dont want any any any civilian killed. BUT war is war. 

so easy for any one to sit back and "arm chair quarter back" this, but there are people who have dedicated their entire lift to the solution over there and the solution to these conflicts and they are not piping up and saying - where is the UN?!?!?!? 

WE ALL AGREE THAT THIS IS HORRIBLE!!! THE USA SHOULD SAY THE HECK WITH EVERY ONE ELSE OUT THERE!!! AND START FIXING HOME !!!! SO, MAYBE THAT IS WHY THEY HAVE NOT JUMPED IN... DO YOU KNOW? DO I? NO - SO PRAY FOR THEM, AND PRAY THAT DOESNT HAPPEN HERE

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## gst528i

WHY INSTEAD OF BICKERING BETWEEN OURSELVES DONT WE DO SOMETHING CREATIVE. 
Pray for them, pray for their souls, pray for thier family. 
Give one minute of your life and say a prayer, that will have done more than arguing among ourselves. We all know this is wrong, wheather some of you feel it is justified or not i am sure no one on this board wants to see children dead.

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## peachfuzz

muriloninja what is that you think you should be done? (and im not trying to be facetious). I 100% agree the situation is fvcked as is the case in darfur, congo, pakistan, iraq, balochistan, mexico, somalia, as well as numerous other conflicts going on in the world. where is the UN in all of this? how did it become our responsibility? we are spread to think as it is. we cannot even take care of ourselves at the moment. i would love for us to be able to solve the worlds problems but these issues are bigger then that. they have existed for longer then we have been a country and it is naive to think we can solve them. i like to believe that there are people with power that truly want to help make the world a better place. if there was an easy fix. im sure it would be implemented.

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## amcon

> WHY INSTEAD OF BICKERING BETWEEN OURSELVES DONT WE DO SOMETHING CREATIVE. 
> Pray for them, pray for their souls, pray for thier family. 
> Give one minute of your life and say a prayer, that will have done more than arguing among ourselves. We all know this is wrong, wheather some of you feel it is justified or not i am sure no one on this board wants to see children dead.


 :BbAily:  :BbAily:

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## amcon

> muriloninja what is that you think you should be done? (and im not trying to be facetious). I 100% agree the situation is fvcked as is the case in darfur, congo, pakistan, iraq, balochistan, mexico, somalia, as well as numerous other conflicts going on in the world. where is the UN in all of this? how did it become our responsibility? we are spread to think as it is. we cannot even take care of ourselves at the moment. i would love for us to be able to solve the worlds problems but these issues are bigger then that. they have existed for longer then we have been a country and it is naive to think we can solve them. i like to believe that there are people with power that truly want to help make the world a better place. if there was an easy fix. im sure it would be implemented.


 :BbAily:  :BbAily: 

that makes sense... "we cant even take care of our selves" lets focus on home... first! (and i know we gave israel tons of $ - how much did we give to palistine? prob the same)

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## NightWolf

What i want to know is why are the Hamas hiding
amongst women and children?. They are high target
profiles but still they hide with women and children
thinking that the isralie will not attack then.
IMO when doing so they are NOT thinking of
the safetey of there pepole.

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## BuffedGuy

> that makes sense... "we cant even take care of our selves" lets focus on home... first! (and i know we gave israel tons of $ - how much did we give to palistine? prob the same)


American aid given to Israeli government (conservative estimate) : 133.132 billion dollars

American aid given to Palestinian Authority: 0 dollars (US law prohibits giving aid)

source: http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm

American military aid given to Israel (conservative estimate): 65 billion dollars

American military aid given to Palestine: 0 dollars

source: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...o_Israel1.html

Almost equal plus or minus a few billion.

*Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S. Aid to Israel*

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000

Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200

Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$23,240

Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630

"This may mean that U.S. government has given more federal aid to the average Israeli citizen in a given year than it has given to the average American citizen."

source: http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm

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## Matt

> What i want to know is why are the Hamas hiding
> amongst women and children?. They are high target
> profiles but still they hide with women and children
> thinking that the isralie will not attack then.
> IMO when doing so they are NOT thinking of
> the safetey of there pepole.


Why dont you read the full thread and you will find the answers to your questions, Hammas dont hide amongst women and children, the place is so crammed theres no where to hide...

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## Matt

> muriloninja what is that you think you should be done? (and im not trying to be facetious). I 100% agree the situation is fvcked as is the case in darfur, congo, pakistan, iraq, balochistan, mexico, somalia, as well as numerous other conflicts going on in the world. where is the UN in all of this? how did it become our responsibility? we are spread to think as it is. we cannot even take care of ourselves at the moment. i would love for us to be able to solve the worlds problems but these issues are bigger then that. they have existed for longer then we have been a country and it is naive to think we can solve them. i like to believe that there are people with power that truly want to help make the world a better place. if there was an easy fix. im sure it would be implemented.


The UN tried to pass a statement telling israel to call an end to its invasion, but the US refused to take part in this which leaves the UN powerless.. Stop backing israel and the fighting will stop..

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## Matt

> Why the **** do you say "I hope we are proud of ourselves" I got enough to deal with in my own life and family to give a shit if morons thousands of miles away wanna kill each other for some prime beach front real estate. **** em I hope they all kill their dumbasses into nothingness, less dumb ****s following a bible based bullshit agenda... World keeps spinning while I keep grinning tho it makes me sick I ain't gonna do shit.


You should care, there your guns, planes, tanks and bombs that are doing the killing. Your taxes go to fund the idf...

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## T_Own

http://www.tamilguardian.com/files/I...nda_skulls.jpg
http://blog.puppetgov.com/wp-content/2008/02/01.jpg
http://hidhist.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/child.jpg
http://z.about.com/d/worldnews/1/0/P...ambiskulls.jpg
and since you got that one of the kids...
http://www.amahoro.nl/a1/img/g94.gikondo.01.s.jpg

in rwanda there was no tempting to start this, there is no aid to either side, and one side doesn't fight back, but millions get killed, get their limbs cut off, and driven from their homes.

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## Ernst

Graphic thought the pics may be, everyone should be forced to see them.

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## 0tolerance

it makes me sad to see thoughs photos, but i guess as the worlds history pushes further, its been happening since the beginning.

i feel sorry for thoughs who have to be involved.

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## Matt

> http://www.tamilguardian.com/files/I...nda_skulls.jpg
> http://blog.puppetgov.com/wp-content/2008/02/01.jpg
> http://hidhist.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/child.jpg
> http://z.about.com/d/worldnews/1/0/P...ambiskulls.jpg
> and since you got that one of the kids...
> http://www.amahoro.nl/a1/img/g94.gikondo.01.s.jpg
> 
> in rwanda there was no tempting to start this, there is no aid to either side, and one side doesn't fight back, but millions get killed, get their limbs cut off, and driven from their homes.


It just goes to show what a sad F...ing world we live in, i know i keep going on about Gaza, but your right its happening all over.

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## NightWolf

> Why dont you read the full thread and you will find the answers to your questions, Hammas dont hide amongst women and children, the place is so crammed theres no where to hide...


The full thread?? that consists of what, your stupidity?
It is no secret that hamas hides there rockets amongst women
and children, dont give me that "there is no other place to hide bs"

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## amcon

> The UN tried to pass a statement telling israel to call an end to its invasion, but the US refused to take part in this which leaves the UN powerless.. Stop backing israel and the fighting will stop..


WE ARE THE USA NOT THE POLICE... THE WORLD HATES US FOR HELPING THESE PEOPLE AND THOSE PEOPLE.... WE ARE NOT THE UN EITHER :Chairshot:

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## amcon

> The full thread?? that consists of what, your stupidity?
> It is no secret that hamas hides there rockets amongst women
> and children, dont give me that "there is no other place to hide bs"



so true, the palistines have very little place to go - but it is not like they are shoulder to shoulder over there... and, not that this justifies ANY thing, but israel is warning where they are going to bomb 3 - 5 min a head of time. NOT THAT MAKES ANY JUSTIFIED!

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## Odpierdol_sie!

> Is it true that Bush passed a law stating that neither him, Cheney or Rumsfeld could be tried as War Criminals after they step down from Office?


A bill was passed in congress in the latter quarter of last year that will stop the extradition of any US gov official past or present. The bill in a nut shell basically gives them diplomatic immunity on foreign policy in their own country.

At the moment it will not be in use. The administration under G.W. Bush refused to sign up to the agreement under the international court of law, but this is not to say that a future president will not sign up to it. 
If the agreement was signed in the future, past government officials that were responsible at the time could be extradited under this Law and tried at The Hague. 
Under the Bush administration the US gov have breeched many international laws and slaughtered many innocent people, this will guarantee that all the officials involved would be tried for war crimes.

The motion that was passed in congress will prohibit a current administration allowing the said persons being taken to a foreign land to be tried as a criminal. 
Since congressional politics is very under the table, for a president to reverse the bill would take a great number of years... atleast 25-30. 
Say if Obama was to sign up to the international law treaty next month, by the time everything is agreed under congress and Bush and Co. are extradited they will all probably be dead of old age.

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## Matt

> The full thread?? that consists of what, your stupidity?
> It is no secret that hamas hides there rockets amongst women
> and children, dont give me that "there is no other place to hide bs"


You show me factual eviedence that shows this. You havnt got any, there isnt any. You hear that a bomb hits a school or hospitle and because the israelis say Hamas were there you believe them..

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## Matt

> WE ARE THE USA NOT THE POLICE... THE WORLD HATES US FOR HELPING THESE PEOPLE AND THOSE PEOPLE.... WE ARE NOT THE UN EITHER


Who the f..k said you were the un?? If your not the worlds police then stop acting as if you were. You need to learn what it takes for the un to pass such a statement, before making a silly comment  :Aajack:

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## amcon

LOL... i will be nice i can see you like 12 and shouldnt be here any ways, 
*frist, the laungue is un called for
*second, you clearly stated that we are to blame 
*third, stop acting like it???? their we go and help, and no matter what we do _ and trust me we are being advised by the un and other countries to help - we get slammed. i say the heck with the rest of the world we should let them all blow each ohter up- we will take all the woman and children here for lets say 90 days and then they can go home
*fourth, silly comment?? silly comment???? YOU TALKING TO ME ? ! i am a usa citizen - we are the DAMN POLICE!!!!!

AND FROM YOU AVATAR PIC YOU SHOULD REALLY TRY SOME PCT AFTER CYCLE YOUR ESTROGEN IS WAY TO HIGH!!!!

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## Matt

> LOL... i will be nice i can see you like 12 and shouldnt be here any ways, 
> *frist, the laungue is un called for
> *second, you clearly stated that we are to blame 
> *third, stop acting like it???? their we go and help, and no matter what we do _ and trust me we are being advised by the un and other countries to help - we get slammed. i say the heck with the rest of the world we should let them all blow each ohter up- we will take all the woman and children here for lets say 90 days and then they can go home
> *fourth, silly comment?? silly comment???? YOU TALKING TO ME ? ! i am a usa citizen - we are the DAMN POLICE!!!!!
> 
> AND FROM YOU AVATAR PIC YOU SHOULD REALLY TRY SOME PCT AFTER CYCLE YOUR ESTROGEN IS WAY TO HIGH!!!!


Haha i like the last comment thats funny. Lets just agree to disagree. We had a simlar thread last week and we couldnt agree. Btw i wish i was 12 again..

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## Matt

> that makes sense... "we cant even take care of our selves" lets focus on home... first! (and i know we gave israel tons of $ - how much did we give to palistine? prob the same)


Btw The US have never given Palistine a cent.....

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## smokethedays

> Btw The US have never given Palistine a cent.....


Matter of fact, they keep in track of who and how much is donated to them. And try to complicate it if is from the US. I have friends here who want to send money there but they can't. They got to do it hand to hand in Jordan and some one will exchange it there. How sad!!!

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## smokethedays

> Why the **** do you say "I hope we are proud of ourselves" I got enough to deal with in my own life and family to give a shit if morons thousands of miles away wanna kill each other for some prime beach front real estate. **** em I hope they all kill their dumbasses into nothingness, less dumb ****s following a bible based bullshit agenda... World keeps spinning while I keep grinning tho it makes me sick I ain't gonna do shit.


I think you are a fool my friend.
Why should you care?!! because your tax money is financing the Israeli war machine, because you have a penny in each and every bullets, bomb, or missile fired at those innocent civilians in Palestine.

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## smokethedays

> muriloninja what is that you think you should be done? (and im not trying to be facetious). I 100% agree the situation is fvcked as is the case in darfur, congo, pakistan, iraq, balochistan, mexico, somalia, as well as numerous other conflicts going on in the world. where is the UN in all of this? how did it become our responsibility? we are spread to think as it is. we cannot even take care of ourselves at the moment. i would love for us to be able to solve the worlds problems but these issues are bigger then that. they have existed for longer then we have been a country and it is naive to think we can solve them. i like to believe that there are people with power that truly want to help make the world a better place. if there was an easy fix. im sure it would be implemented.


1- UN cannot do anything the US does not approve of.
2- Its the US responsibilty becasue Israel NEVER EVER lanuched a single attack without confirming with the US and recieve the 'blessings", money, and weapons.
3-The US can solve it, but solving it will cost the US what it don't want to pay, the JEws support and their money.

These are facts , you can simply google and find out.

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## Deltasaurus

i think the US supports it then

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## smokethedays

> that makes sense... "we cant even take care of our selves" lets focus on home... first! (and i know we gave israel tons of $ - how much did we give to palistine? prob the same)


 Common Amcon, are you serious?!!!!

US give Palestine money?!!! Why?!! that will upset Israel and the US cannot upset Israel, or....

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## Voice of Reason

> I think you are a fool my friend.
> Why should you care?!! because your tax money is financing the Israeli war machine, because you have a penny in each and every bullets, bomb, or missile fired at those innocent civilians in Palestine.


Ohh yeh let me just go get my tax money and put it back in my wallet like I have control of it...  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## smokethedays

> i think the US supports it then


You think?

If there was no US, there would have been no Isreal. Simple as that.

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## Deltasaurus

yeah i know, im wondering the real plot behind all this? what are we to gain?

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## smokethedays

> Ohh yeh let me just go get my tax money and put it back in my wallet like I have control of it...


Well maybe you should.
or at least when you comment, make sure you know what you are commenting about.
You think that here is the US we have nothing to do with it, while if it wasn't for us here, that wouldn't have taken place to begin with.

The govnmt. apparentley is successful at thier decptive plans, because of the way you spoke, it shows that you "think" we nothing to do with it, we are just watching, while the truth is different.

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## smokethedays

> yeah i know, im wondering the real plot behind all this? what are we to gain?


1- An eye in the middle east.
2- An army and a foothold in the heart of the middle east.
3- Jewish financial support (that is crucial and meaured by the Trillions of $'s).
4- To hypocrates like G. W. Bush they are the chosen people in the bible  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Voice of Reason

> Well maybe you should.
> or at least when you comment, make sure you know what you are commenting about.
> You think that here is the US we have nothing to do with it, while if it wasn't for us here, that wouldn't have taken place to begin with.
> 
> The govnmt. apparentley is successful at thier decptive plans, because of the way you spoke, it shows that you "think" we nothing to do with it, we are just watching, while the truth is different.


Bro I understand what you mean and the situation, I just have little belief in the human race that we would ever do what is needed to stop this stupid shit. You know it would mean for every American to stop their lives and start a revolution of epic proportions. This is a huge task and how and where do we start? 
Obviously voting and the protesting on the streets does nothing. Things will have to get bloody and most people are not willing to go there, when today we gotta take the kids to football practice, or we're remodeling the bathroom this week, or this weekend we're having a bbq, boating and goodtimes ect, ect... 

Of course I care, but what the hell are we gonna do? Nothing... Go to work, bitch about shit on the internet, go to the gym, feed the kids, eat dinner, watch a movie, go to bed, repeat...

When someone comes up with a good plan maybe i'll care. 

****...

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## Matt

Its funny how democracy can bite you in the ass. The US and Israel screamed at the Palestinians to democratically elect its leaders, which they did. When they chose Hamas they then screamed that this was wrong.

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## smokethedays

> Its funny how democracy can bite you in the ass. The US and Israel screamed at the Palestinians to democratically elect its leaders, which they did. When they chose Hamas they then screamed that this was wrong.


 :LOL:  great point. 
The only democracy Israel and the US know is to give you a choice to be bombed or suffer under sanctions. The choice is yours, make it wisely.

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## amcon

> You think?
> 
> If there was no US, there would have been no Isreal. Simple as that.


clearly you are coming across as one of the 5% ers that are the extreamist... statements like that scare us (i am not kidding) that is why we as americans come down so hard on people with your views... very hard :Chairshot:

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## smokethedays

> clearly you are coming across as one of the 5% ers that are the extreamist... statements like that scare us (i am not kidding) that is why we as americans come down so hard on people with your views... very hard


WTF?!! people with my views?
We as americans? wtf are you sayin' man?!! you need to re-read!!!
I am extremist??

----------


## smokethedays

> clearly you are coming across as one of the 5% ers that are the extreamist... statements like that scare us (i am not kidding) that is why we as americans come down so hard on people with your views... very hard


All I said, if there was no US, there would be no Israel. 
In other words, the US is the reason Israel exists and continue to exist?
WTF is so extreme about that? or maybe you just have comprehension problems,  :1hifu:

----------


## Matt

amcon, why do you bother in these threads, you clearly havnt got a clue what your talking about, nothing that you say makes any sense, you need to go and play in the lounge..

----------


## smokethedays

> amcon, why do you bother in these threads, you clearly havnt got a clue what your talking about, nothing that you say makes any sense, you need to go and play in the lounge..


Exactly, this guy is f-ing clueless about anything. Im sorry to say that, but its the truth, and appraently Im not the only one with this opinion.

----------


## amcon

> Its funny how democracy can bite you in the ass. The US and Israel screamed at the Palestinians to democratically elect its leaders, which they did. When they chose Hamas they then screamed that this was wrong.


the reason why they screamed after they were a domocracy was they were not a real democracy it was just to get the un of their backs... tricky people, also, how do you explain 200 rockets a day average launched at and in to a dif country ??? dont you think that dif country will get pissed off and have to fight back???? and all the car bombs and people bombs? that kill inocient people like kids and women? but that is ok cause they are oppressed - right? 

or - lets look at this like this hummus(hamas) (thats a little joke - dont mess with zohan) is agressive in their actions very, they are not throwing bottle rockest get my point? if you were a parent and you had a son that kept squirting the neihbor day after day, they were worned day after day... then the neibhor opened the hose on to that naughty agressive little boy what would every body say ? he deserved it? or he got what he was looking for? 

see, palistine is over there saying how bad this is(and it is worse than bad) then on the other hand they are STILL FIRING ROCKETS AT ISRAEL?!?!?!? STILL HIDING IN PUBLIC PLACES?!?!?!? AND ALL ARE CLAIMING MARTERISM - ????????

----------


## amcon

> amcon, why do you bother in these threads, you clearly havnt got a clue what your talking about, nothing that you say makes any sense, you need to go and play in the lounge..


SAD, very sad that you belive your self  : 1106:

----------


## amcon

> All I said, if there was no US, there would be no Israel. 
> In other words, the US is the reason Israel exists and continue to exist?
> WTF is so extreme about that? or maybe you just have comprehension problems,


one of us does...  :Aajack:

----------


## smokethedays

> the reason why they screamed after they were a domocracy was they were not a real democracy it was just to get the un of their backs... tricky people, also, how do you explain 200 rockets a day average launched at and in to a dif country ??? dont you think that dif country will get pissed off and have to fight back???? and all the car bombs and people bombs? that kill inocient people like kids and women? but that is ok cause they are oppressed - right? 
> 
> or - lets look at this like this hummus(hamas) (thats a little joke - dont mess with zohan) is agressive in their actions very, they are not throwing bottle rockest get my point? if you were a parent and you had a son that kept squirting the neihbor day after day, they were worned day after day... then the neibhor opened the hose on to that naughty agressive little boy what would every body say ? he deserved it? or he got what he was looking for? 
> 
> see, palistine is over there saying how bad this is(and it is worse than bad) then on the other hand they are STILL FIRING ROCKETS AT ISRAEL?!?!?!? STILL HIDING IN PUBLIC PLACES?!?!?!? AND ALL ARE CLAIMING MARTERISM - ????????


I tried to avoid this,and keep it clean but I really can't. 
 :0piss:  @ Amcon :0beatoff:

----------


## amcon

> Exactly, this guy is f-ing clueless about anything. Im sorry to say that, but its the truth, and appraently Im not the only one with this opinion.


good point - opinions are like *ss holes every one has one and your stinks...

can you smell this? ----) :Asskiss:

----------


## Matt

> the reason why they screamed after they were a domocracy was they were not a real democracy it was just to get the un of their backs... tricky people, also, how do you explain 200 rockets a day average launched at and in to a dif country ??? dont you think that dif country will get pissed off and have to fight back???? and all the car bombs and people bombs? that kill inocient people like kids and women? but that is ok cause they are oppressed - right? 
> 
> or - lets look at this like this hummus(hamas) (thats a little joke - dont mess with zohan) is agressive in their actions very, they are not throwing bottle rockest get my point? if you were a parent and you had a son that kept squirting the neihbor day after day, they were worned day after day... then the neibhor opened the hose on to that naughty agressive little boy what would every body say ? he deserved it? or he got what he was looking for? 
> 
> see, palistine is over there saying how bad this is(and it is worse than bad) then on the other hand they are STILL FIRING ROCKETS AT ISRAEL?!?!?!? STILL HIDING IN PUBLIC PLACES?!?!?!? AND ALL ARE CLAIMING MARTERISM - ????????


This is what i mean, everything you have said there is BS, what are you watching MTV??? You have got it so wrong, please please put down that playboy and educate yourself on real life...

----------


## amcon

> great point. 
> The only democracy Israel and the US know is to give you a choice to be bombed or suffer under sanctions. The choice is yours, make it wisely.


how on earth is this our choice... do you think we have some sort of a clicker at our houses that we say bomb them or dont bomb them???? 

we have no choice no choice at all... what they do with our money where it goes - we pray and trust they are doing the right thing... but, tell me how would you solve these problems???? go tell palistine to play nice or sorry to late... you so smart why dont you invent a time machine and go fix all this... good luck - you stud you !

----------


## amcon

> This is what i mean, everything you have said there is BS, what are you watching MTV??? You have got it so wrong, please please put down that playboy and educate yourself on real life...


like you said i googled it... or was that the other 5% er ?

and fyi as soon as you take it personal you loose - not that this is win or loose ... but when you start swearing (swearing at me) you show your weaknesses...

----------


## Matt

> how on earth is this our choice... do you think we have some sort of a clicker at our houses that we say bomb them or dont bomb them???? 
> 
> we have no choice no choice at all... what they do with our money where it goes - we pray and trust they are doing the right thing... but, tell me how would you solve these problems???? go tell palistine to play nice or sorry to late... you so smart why dont you invent a time machine and go fix all this... good luck - you stud you !


This is why i swear amcon, your statement there. Look at the Israelis tanks, planes, guns, and helicopters, they were all made in the US and shipped to Isreal. So please admit that the statement that you made above is wrong???

----------


## amcon

that is our choice... so 99% of americans said "la la la hey im board lets ship tanks to..... um .... well.... lets see ..... Israel... and every one cheered!!!" i dont check my taxes and say i would like 10% to go to Africa to save the little hungry kids with aids, 10% to go to pres bush's retirment fund, 10% to chenney's gun club's, 10% to mexico to help ship cocain here(shipping is expensive), and the rest just buy a few tanks and stuff and send it to Israel..." 


answer the question how do YOU ----)  : Hijack:  solve these problems????

(he he he - i know that wasnt nice ... but you did pee on me)

answer

----------


## Matt

amcon im going to leave you with this because it sums you up. 

At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in the room is now dumer for having listened to it. i do award you no points and may God have mercy on your sole..

----------


## goose

> amcon im going to leave you with this because it sums you up. 
> 
> At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in the room is now dumer for having listened to it. i do award you no points and may God have mercy on your sole..



 :Wink/Grin: 

Guys like you make me proud to be a brit......even tho we got the most evil history.Its horrific how some yanks think :Frown:

----------


## NightWolf

> You show me factual eviedence that shows this. You havnt got any, there isnt any. You hear that a bomb hits a school or hospitle and because the israelis say Hamas were there you believe them..


How about the hamas rocket launchers as eviedence?
how come the hamas rocket attacks went down significantly
after israelis boming? thats eviedence enough that they
hit there target, stop talking as if only one side are to blame.
Remember who started to launch rockets after the truce
expired.

----------


## Deltasaurus

^^^This is True

----------


## smokethedays

> Guys like you make me proud to be a brit......even tho we got the most evil history.*Its horrific how some yanks think*


 :LOL:

----------


## jimmyinkedup

> Guys like you make me proud to be a brit......even tho we got the most evil history.Its horrific how some yanks think


was it horrific how they thought around oh say 62 years ago in europe...when london was in shambles...rubble..... next in line to fall..... was it horrific how those yanks thought...when they stormed normandy ...when they had no national borders under attack from germany...yet they aided their allies and the world for a greater good? British and french especailly...so damn uppity, better than attitudes.. some british and all the french have thoase attitudes ..and such short damn memories.....

iTS NOT THAT I AGREE WITH HIS POST NOT AT ALL...BUT I DEF DIAGREE WITH YOURS....

----------


## smokethedays

> *How about the hamas rocket launchers as eviedence?*
> *how come the hamas rocket attacks went down significantly*
> *after israelis boming? thats eviedence enough that they*
> *hit there target, stop talking as if only one side are to blame.*
> *Remember who started to launch rockets after the truce*
> *expired*.


Check you out, Mr. Information CNN guy  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## jimmyinkedup

How about you brits chew on this fact for a few mins?

In 2007 Israel was the UK's 3rd largest export market ........
while certain trade unions have boycotted israel.....the uk continues to be a leading importer as far as importing to israel compared to other middle eastern countries
hmmmmmmmm

----------


## Matt

> was it horrific how they thought around oh say 62 years ago in europe...when london was in shambles...rubble..... next in line to fall..... was it horrific how those yanks thought...when they stormed normandy ...when they had no national borders under attack from germany...yet they aided their allies and the world for a greater good? British and french especailly...so damn uppity, better than attitudes.. some british and all the french have thoase attitudes ..and such short damn memories.....


If you check your history you will find that the battle of Britain (between us and the Germans) was well over before the US entered the war... THat said i will be forever greatful to the US for what they did and the sacrifices they made, and i believe we have supported you in very conflict since.

We have a far worse history than anyone, and im not proud of it ( although you shouldnt believe everything you see in films like Brave Heart haha) We are no better than you and i wish the F..k we would do something...

----------


## smokethedays

> How about you brits chew on this fact for a few mins?
> 
> In 2007 Israel was the UK's 3rd largest export market ........
> hmmmmmmmm


How about a REAL fact here, both Americans and Brits are resposible for Israel's behavior feeling free to do what ever it wants beginning with stealing land ending up with total anihilation of Palestinians.

Resting on the fact that US and UK "got their back".

----------


## jimmyinkedup

^^^ i expressed my view re: the us smoke...i just wanted to keep it real here....
No the israelis are directly responsible for their own behavior. We(US)and they(UK) are not responsible directly for their behavior....that is not accurate ...we are guilty of supplying them with them means and not intervening when the course of action that was immoral and criminal was pursued....and given the history of israel u r correct we should never have supplied them with the means we have to support this kind of overt terrorism. LIke i said of all people the israleis should be very familiar with crimes against humanity...yet they purvey one right before all our eyes and we sit and watch it unfold....we are ALL to blame...same thing in darfour.....criminal...some like the US hold a larger share of the blame...thats all.....

----------


## Matt

> How about you brits chew on this fact for a few mins?
> 
> In 2007 Israel was the UK's 3rd largest export market ........
> while certain trade unions have boycotted israel.....the uk continues to be a leading importer as far as importing to israel compared to other middle eastern countries
> hmmmmmmmm


Agreed i cant argue with that but at least our prime minister is asking the israelis to stop... If Bush did the same it would stop now..

----------


## smokethedays

> Agreed i cant argue with that but at least our prime minister is asking the israelis to stop... If Bush did the same it would stop now..


I agree, somewhat.

----------


## jimmyinkedup

> Agreed i cant argue with that but at least our prime minister is asking the israelis to stop... If Bush did the same it would stop now..


i agree...it is embarassing actually much worse than that ..it is criminal to watch this unfold and not intervine...

----------


## Matt

> ^^^ i expressed my view re: the us smoke...i just wanted to keep it real here....
> No the israelis are directly responsible for their own behavior. We(US)and they(UK) are not responsible directly for their behavior....that is not accurate ...we are guilty of supplying them with them means and not intervening when the course of action that was immoral and criminal was pursued....and given the history of israel u r correct we should never have supplied them with the means we have to support this kind of overt terrorism. LIke i said of all people the israleis should be very familiar with crimes against humanity...yet they purvey one right before all our eyes and we sit and watch it unfold....we are ALL to blame...same thing in darfour.....criminal...some like the US hold a larger share of the blame...thats all.....


Makes sense to me and like ive said im not proud of the way our leaders (meaning the UK) are and have delt with israel, I would like to see an end to the support israel gets from the UK..

----------


## xlxBigSexyxlx

I mean, if a group of people shot at me and had the intention to kill me. I would do anything possible to blow the mother****ers off the planet

Wether or not they are hiding behind women and children, civilian casualties are a part of war...sadly enough

----------


## T_Own

i don't have time to answer, but this thread really shows how ill-informed some people are...

----------


## amcon

> Matter of fact, they keep in track of who and how much is donated to them. And try to complicate it if is from the US. I have friends here who want to send money there but they can't. They got to do it hand to hand in Jordan and some one will exchange it there. How sad!!!


politely, this is the underlining thread that is woven in to every thing you say about this ... you have friends there that (and rightly so )is the reason why you are so one sided... me i am unattached to either side - and try to look at it objectively... though obviously i have a thought on why this is happening... and i realize that this feels like  :Nutkick:  's but your not able to be objective on the subject cause you are to close to it(again, with just reason to feel that way)

----------


## peachfuzz

> WHY INSTEAD OF BICKERING BETWEEN OURSELVES DONT WE DO SOMETHING CREATIVE. 
> Pray for them, pray for their souls, pray for thier family. 
> Give one minute of your life and say a prayer, that will have done more than arguing among ourselves. We all know this is wrong, wheather some of you feel it is justified or not i am sure no one on this board wants to see children dead.


maybe some of you didnt read this guys post...so here it is again.

----------


## amcon

> amcon im going to leave you with this because it sums you up. 
> 
> At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in the room is now dumer for having listened to it. i do award you no points and may God have mercy on your sole..


do you believe in a god? who? and that god allows you to talk like that? nice walk with your faith...

----------


## amcon

> was it horrific how they thought around oh say 62 years ago in europe...when london was in shambles...rubble..... next in line to fall..... was it horrific how those yanks thought...when they stormed normandy ...when they had no national borders under attack from germany...yet they aided their allies and the world for a greater good? British and french especailly...so damn uppity, better than attitudes.. some british and all the french have thoase attitudes ..and such short damn memories.....
> 
> iTS NOT THAT I AGREE WITH HIS POST NOT AT ALL...BUT I DEF DIAGREE WITH YOURS....


lol ... good point

----------


## amcon

> Check you out, Mr. Information CNN guy


smoke the days, y dont you send him your google spot that you get all your info... (i had to much caffien today) and every thing i hear from you too just rubs me the wrong way, your intitled to your oppinion of coarse - but thinking america is the BAD guy here ... such shame! all the other counties have the former soviet unions bombs and guns and tanks and planes and choppers and everthing else... that is ok y?

----------


## amcon

> How about a REAL fact here, both Americans and Brits are resposible for Israel's behavior feeling free to do what ever it wants beginning with stealing land ending up with total anihilation of Palestinians.
> 
> Resting on the fact that US and UK "got their back".


wow, after that statement i would guess that you didnt grow up with any discipline - i will teach you something real quick - people have to take responsibility for their own actions !!!! the can not go around and blame everone else... do you already know that? :Hmmmm:

----------


## Matt

> maybe some of you didnt read this guys post...so here it is again.


Agreed, ive since read it again, its all we can do..

----------


## amcon

> Agreed, ive since read it again, its all we can do..


agreed!!! unfortunately that is all we can do

----------


## smokethedays

> wow, after that statement i would guess that *you didnt grow up with any discipline* - i will teach you something real quick - people have to take responsibility for their own actions !!!! the can not go around and blame everone else... do you already know that?


Listen ass hole, say wt ever you want, just don't cross the line. Leave my personal life alone. 

You doing so shows nothing but how much of low life and ignorant you are. 

You seriously are a kid. A low life kid, straight of the alleys and grabage bins.

----------


## thegodfather

Someone mentioned that Hamas hides among the Palestinian people, as if this is somehow their fault that Israel is slaughtering innocent people? 

I will break it down for those of you who cannot grasp the simple concepts at work here. Hamas is trying to resist an occupier who has more money, resources, power, and soldiers than they have. Hamas does not have a formal army or the resources to mount a defense in a CONVENTIONAL manner. Therefore, they engage in covert warfare where they attack the Israeli people in order to discourage their enemy from fighting. It is a very effective tactic and is not the first time it has been used in history. We call them terrorists, while a large number of people call them people fighting for their freedom, fighting to oust an occupier. 

You can look throughout history and see that many oppressed people have resorted to this tactic, often labeled as 'terrorism' in order to defend themselves.

----------


## Panzerfaust

Ok, lets take a brief look at the creation of this Israeli state as it is now known:

Creation of the Israeli state occured in 1948, this was brought about by the British as they controlled this area roughly between 1917-1948. Arabs rioted and protested this snatching of land and at the time no "Jews" were allowed to live in the area unless they were rich (in that days terms) so Jewish immigration did not affect Palestinian way of life blah blah blah

As Hitler began kicking the Jews out of Germany, immigration sky rocketed and the Palestinians were none to thrilled and led a large scale rebellion, the British finally intervened and proposed to seperate the area into a Jewish area and a Palestinian area with Britain maintaining control, this was shot down.

The war is now over and the Jews demand they be given a state in Palestinian territory. WWII left massive amounts of Jews as refugee's and in 1946 they flawked to Palestinian land which saw a rise in illegal immigration and Britain responded by rounding up a bunch of these Jews and arrested them holding them without trial. The Jews began to revolt against Britain and Britain arrested more Jews and placed them in Palestine all paid for by the taxes placed on Jewish community in Palestine. Basically Britain saw that these Jews would not leave the area so they began releasing Jews to Palestine at a certain rate per month, kind of like a quota.

Hositility between Jewish and British remained and eventually around 1947 a partition of land was created with the idea one be Jewish the other Arab. Jerusalem being directly controlled by the UN. Britain did not go along completely and kept imprisoning Jews and denied UN access. Britain relinquished this standpoint in 1949.

The thing to note here is that this fighting that we see today began in 1947 immediately after this "agreement" to partition land giving some to Israel and some to Palestinians. *"The Arab States declared they would greet any attempt to form a Jewish state with war and leaders of the Palestinian-Arab community promised a "fight to the death".* Sound familiar?


There is so much more to read on this subject but you can now kinda get the idea of whose land this was and how this came about. Some Jews even state this land was "given" to the "Jews" by Britain because the Jews promised to get the United States involved in WWII (which the British were losing at that point). America enters the war, the Nazi's are defeated and the Jews are goven their state 2yrs later and all hell breaks loose as the Palestinians are kinda pissed that they are forced onto a 223 mile strip of land.

-------------------

It is easy to find out about the United States involvment with Israel and Israel's grip on the US. The Israeli's depend on the US economically and Militarily. The Palestinians are firing homemade rockets into Isreal while Israel reponds with top of the line artillery and air superiority.

Palestine attacking Israel is about the equivelant of Mexico attacking the United States. Sure, Mexico would kill some people but when we attack them we kill far more man y of them due to our extreme military capabilities.


I am not saying right or wrong, those pics further strenghten my disbelief in mankinds ability to give a shit about each other. I simply do not belief that Israel is a victim here. They simply do as they will with America standing right behind them saying "Ok, go ahead...do what you will...we support you so the UN nor the rest of the world can say anything against you".

I am reading more now regarding the history of this conflict....this displaced people (Jews) have caused havoc everywhere they have ever migrated too (Russia, Europe etc). Does this mean all Jews are bad, of course not and many even disagree with this ridiculous slaughter being carried out as we speak.


I say "I hope we are proud of ourselves" as in America quietly standing by as the UN protest Israel's behaviour. America simply states "Israel has the right to protect itself"...why did we mock and attack Saddam for invading Quwait but allow Israel to invade Gaza? The Palestinians have no chance against an American backed IDF.


America should bitchslap Israel and tell it to back the **** off and settle this shit down. America is only further letting hate fester in the middle east for America. I am sure most in the middle east would love nothing more than to see us drown in our own blood...I mean can you blame them? Try to look at it from their side..all you have ever known is an American backed government opressing and pounding the shit out of you. I think 90% of Gaza residents are malnutritioned thanks to Israeli economic sanctions in the area. Gaza is nothing more than a concentration camp for Palestinians and is extremely densley populated.

----------


## Flagg

Terrorists....seems to me that's just something the Big Army calls the Little Army these days.

And isn't this discussion about Israel and Gaza...not who managed to piss higher during WW2 between America and Britain? So probably best to leave that patriotic bullshit at the door for this subject.

How is it though, that just about most world leaders have asked for an immediate cease fire, but Cheney cold heartedly says: "Can Hamas stop firing rockets" ??

Amcon, I don't know who you are, but you need to start supplying sources with these outraegously claims you're making. Unless you're a "95 % r" who's facts are based on personal opinion.

----------


## smokethedays

> Terrorists....seems to me that's just something the Big Army calls the Little Army these days.
> 
> And isn't this discussion about Israel and Gaza...not who managed to piss higher during WW2 between America and Britain? So probably best to leave that patriotic bullshit at the door for this subject.
> 
> How is it though, that just about most world leaders have asked for an immediate cease fire, but Cheney cold heartedly says: "Can Hamas stop firing rockets" ??
> 
> Amcon, I don't know who you are, but you need to start supplying sources with these outraegously claims you're making.* Unless you're a "95 % r" who's facts are based on personal opinion*.


He is that bro. I've been with other memebers going back and forth with this Amcon dude about FACTS that he just seems to be so ignorant about yet arguing and being offensive.

----------


## Voice of Reason

So did anyone give thought to what i said? lets start a revolution brothers, get 5 friends who will get 5 more friends and we will take over the steroid and gun supply of the world!!!

I'm drunk...

----------


## amcon

> Listen ass hole, say wt ever you want, just don't cross the line. Leave my personal life alone. 
> 
> You doing so shows nothing but how much of low life and ignorant you are. 
> 
> You seriously are a kid. A low life kid, straight of the alleys and grabage bins.


lol... you pee on me, swear on me and i hit the nail on the head w your personal live (not because i have ESP or any thing just because it dripps from your attitude)  :Tear:  :Tear: 

sorry if i hurt your feelings

----------


## amcon

> Someone mentioned that Hamas hides among the Palestinian people, as if this is somehow their fault that Israel is slaughtering innocent people? 
> 
> I will break it down for those of you who cannot grasp the simple concepts at work here. Hamas is trying to resist an occupier who has more money, resources, power, and soldiers than they have. Hamas does not have a formal army or the resources to mount a defense in a CONVENTIONAL manner. Therefore, they engage in covert warfare where they attack the Israeli people in order to discourage their enemy from fighting. It is a very effective tactic and is not the first time it has been used in history. We call them terrorists, while a large number of people call them people fighting for their freedom, fighting to oust an occupier. 
> 
> You can look throughout history and see that many oppressed people have resorted to this tactic, often labeled as 'terrorism' in order to defend themselves.


the point was that they are doing it and saying they are not... no one wants to see the kids or woman hurt

and remember 200 + rockets a day... not water rockets we played with as kids, bombs aimed at kids and woman and men.

... ditto on both sides

----------


## Panzerfaust

> So did anyone give thought to what i said? lets start a revolution brothers, get 5 friends who will get 5 more friends and we will take over the steroid and gun supply of the world!!!
> 
> I'm drunk...



I'm sorry but I would never allow a drunkard to have my back in a fire fight. Sorry! Your ass is in the rear with the gear!

----------


## amcon

"The Arab States declared they would greet any attempt to form a Jewish state with war and leaders of the Palestinian-Arab community promised a "fight to the death". Sound familiar?

and i quote from Gen: 16 :12 promise to one of abraham's decendents you tell me who this fits... "and he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren." 

first it can not be israel, they have not been around the middle east long enough... i dont know who it stands for but it fits many countries - looking at lineage would be interesting. any ways ...

----------


## amcon

> So did anyone give thought to what i said? lets start a revolution brothers, get 5 friends who will get 5 more friends and we will take over the steroid and gun supply of the world!!!
> 
> I'm drunk...


ok i want smoketheday hes pissed off and motivated - we'll just tell him american gear is being held up by israel... he will get that done in seconds

(smokethedays smile i made a joke)

 :Bblaser:  :0icon Chainsaw:  :0samuriay:

----------


## Voice of Reason

> I'm sorry but I would never allow a drunkard to have my back in a fire fight. Sorry! *Your ass is in the rear with the gear!*


So I'm stuck doing the glute shots of Test & Tren in the revolution ayy...  :Frown:  So be it, glad to help out my brothers in the fight.

----------


## gst528i

You know what they should do. The arab countries and isreal should go find a nice good spot in africa. PLenty of Beautiful land that is not being used. 
Than isreal and arabs go half on purchasing the land from one of the governments. 
These government desperately need the money and are willing to sell land i kid you not. (im lived there for a few years).
Than over a period of 100 years promise to give the land back by slowly developing that part of africa. 
Win Win.

----------


## NightWolf

> Check you out, Mr. Information CNN guy


No check you out, Mr biased muslim guy  :Aajack:

----------


## Edgar

war is shit , we live in a world of Nuclear and alot of so called fvcking tough guys around here. as horrible as this shit is, it is nothing to what is coming in the future. I'm sure most of us are going to see and experience Nuclear War. anyone that sees a good reason for death and violance is just a little dumb FVck that dont know no better!

----------


## amcon

Definitions of intelligence:

* the ability to comprehend; to understand and profit from experience
* a unit responsible for gathering and interpreting information

Definitions of wisdom:

* accumulated knowledge or erudition or enlightenment
* the trait of utilizing knowledge and experience with common sense and insight
* the quality of being prudent and sensible 

lets say your Intelligent - that you have the abilities to learn - that doent make you a doctor? does it? 

any ways as for knowing about steroids , were have i commented directly on steroids? when does that other person comment on steroids? as for training and diet i would like the same answers... ? 

and yes you are immature at that age... going to college prove your immature, you'll be a man when you have graduated from it, when you have wed, when you have owned a business, when you have had several children, when you have gone through life ... now at 20(if you really are) you are very immature... your language proves it... oxox

sorry posted in the wrong one... oops

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## Flagg

*Israel have just bombed three danish field hospitals.*

Source is here, on a Swedish website http://www.vasabladet.fi/wirestory.aspx?storyID=12241 but here is the google translation.

"Israel bombed mobile field hospital

Three Danish mobile field hospitals intended to reduce the pressure on Gaza's overcrowded hospitals have been bombed by Israeli planes. None of the staff were seriously injured in the attack, states the Danish People's Organization Kirkens Relief.

- We have just received photos showing that cars are bombed and completely destroyed. We are shocked that the Israelis go to direct attacks against humanitarian targets. The cars are clearly marked with Red Cross symbols. It is a violation of the Geneva Convention, "says Henrik Stubkjär of the People's Kirkens Relief.

According to the Danish news agency Ritzau field hospitals had not yet been put into service, but was parked outside Gaza City. They were staffed by local doctors and nurses.

On Tuesday, the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) to the Israeli military offensive in the Gaza Strip, causing more and more civilian casualties. The organization calls the situation of a "massive humanitarian crisis."

- At the moment, we are very concerned about the increasing number of civilians killed and injured and the civilian infrastructure, such as hospitals, which have been affected by Israeli operations, "said Pierre Kraehenbuehl of the ICRC. (FNB)"

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## Flagg

This makes me sick. I guess it's just open season now on Gaza, if Hospitals are now fair game.

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## jimmyinkedup

> Definitions of intelligence:
> 
> * the ability to comprehend; to understand and profit from experience
> * a unit responsible for gathering and interpreting information
> 
> Definitions of wisdom:
> 
> * accumulated knowledge or erudition or enlightenment
> * the trait of utilizing knowledge and experience with common sense and insight
> ...


I think in your zeal you posted this in the wrong thread....

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## OH REALLY

those pics are horrible.

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## binder

> WE ARE THE USA NOT THE POLICE... THE WORLD HATES US FOR HELPING THESE PEOPLE AND THOSE PEOPLE.... WE ARE NOT THE UN EITHER


exactly

We as American's are screwed no matter what we do. If we go over seas and try to help a government out we are bastards for getting involved. If we stay out of it and let countries do what they want then we are bastards for not helping out.

So why is it that every other country in the world can just stay out of things and nobody bitches about it? When was the last time Japan or China helped anyone out? That's right, they don't because they are too busy taking over the American economy while everyone praises them for staying out of the world's problems.

To the original poster: like someone else stated, if you are so hell bent on doing something then why not do something? you come onto a message board and say how bad America is and at the same time mention that you are sitting at home well fed and safe. That's exactly what are you complaining about other people doing and you are doing it all along!

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## jimmyinkedup

^^^ your post brings up some good points and got me thinking. While i think it is fundamentally wrong the way we have established our relationship with israel and provided them with goods and services esp military equipment knowing there involvement in such activites, also we do exert some influence there and as a result of the goods we provided being used to this end we could at the very least vocalize our displeasure with their actions. At the very least. BUT your point is well taken ....why is it that china the ussr and many other countries take part in trade and providing military goods to many nations that engage in crimes against humanity and oppression and are never called to task on it? Why is the US viewed to have to be the consummate good guy? Is it because those other coutries are internationally viewed as "bad guys" so their behavior is expected but why is it Americans should be and are held to a higher standard? I dunno but u raised a good point ....is there some jealously involved internationallly...i dont know im not saying its the case...but there does appear to be a double standard ....As far as this topic i do feel we should express publically through our politicians that we do not condone such actions.....as long as that is truly the american peoples view on it. Thats the politicains jobs...to express and carry out the interests and express the opinions of the people they represent without bais and self interest.

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## smokethedays

Hugo Chavez said:
How sad that Israel continues to act as the assassin arm of the Yankee empire, the president said.

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## binder

> ^^^ your post brings up some good points and got me thinking. While i think it is fundamentally wrong the way we have established our relationship with israel and provided them with goods and services esp military equipment knowing there involvement in such activites, also we do exert some influence there and as a result of the goods we provided being used to this end we could at the very least vocalize our displeasure with their actions. At the very least. BUT your point is well taken ....why is it that china the ussr and many other countries take part in trade and providing military goods to many nations that engage in crimes against humanity and oppression and are never called to task on it? Why is the US viewed to have to be the consummate good guy? Is it because those other coutries are internationally viewed as "bad guys" so their behavior is expected but why is it Americans should be and are held to a higher standard? I dunno but u raised a good point ....is there some jealously involved internationallly...i dont know im not saying its the case...but there does appear to be a double standard ....As far as this topic i do feel we should express publically through our politicians that we do not condone such actions.....as long as that is truly the american peoples view on it. Thats the politicains jobs...to express and carry out the interests and express the opinions of the people they represent without bais and self interest.



well said. write congress or your senator. message forums won't help the problem.

after being an army sergeant for 6 years my opinion has changed on America's presence around the world. I think we should just cut off all ties to other countries and stay out of it all. Then all the other countries will realize that we do more good for the world than we do bad. I know we have made bad decisions as a country, but nobody ever recognizes the 365 billion dollars in foriegn aid we give out to 3rd world countries. Funny how they forget that.

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## BuffedGuy

> This makes me sick. I guess it's just open season now on Gaza, if Hospitals are now fair game.


Well, the hospitals are aiding and abetting the families of terrorists. And I think they put their WMDs in hospitals.

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## Edgar

> Hugo Chavez said:
> How sad that Israel continues to act as the assassin arm of the Yankee empire, the president said.


bro I respect you man and agree with you on most things, but **** Hugo Chavez hes a piece of shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! who gives a **** what he says!

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## Flagg

> Well, the hospitals are aiding and abetting the families of terrorists. And I think they put their WMDs in hospitals.


Well that has to be it, I mean where better to build a WMD than under a hospital or to hide a terrorist cell. I mean it seems as if Hamas are hiding in every nook, crevise and cranny.

"We better blow that graveyard up"
"But why?"
"Hamas are hiding in those coffins"

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## smokethedays

> *bro I respect you man and agree with you* on most things, but **** Hugo Chavez hes a piece of shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! who gives a **** what he says!


What does that have to do with me?!!  :Shrug: 

I just copied and pasted his quote. Its a direct related issue to the thread. Thats all
I could care less about him or any one else.

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## Edgar

just saying the source Hugo is a turd muffin scumbag with a political agenda, I just hoped you didnt take this guys statements as anything of relevance and value on what is going on. this guy doesnt care anything about anybody in the world not even his own people, so hes statements are always full of shit. that is all. sorry bro my bad!

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## Voice of Reason

These helped me give me some insight:

*History of Israel in a Nutshell*

*History of Israel in a Nutshell 2*

*The Middle East*

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## Matt

> These helped me give me some insight:
> 
> *History of Israel in a Nutshell*
> 
> *History of Israel in a Nutshell 2*
> 
> *The Middle East*


I found that very interesting thanks...

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## BuffedGuy

> These helped me give me some insight:
> 
> *History of Israel in a Nutshell*
> 
> *History of Israel in a Nutshell 2*
> 
> *The Middle East*


Completely biased and a load of garbage.

Conveniently forgets to mention that the Jewish Israelites slaughtered the Palestinians in their very first conquest, as mentioned in the Hebrew Bible itself.

Huge racist lie that the Palestinians never had a culture or civilization. This video was made by a racist Zionist. 

I love how it says that Jews have existed in Palestine for all time...yes they have. Conveniently forgets to mention that only <1% of the population was Jewish and the rest Palestinian. Forgets to mention that there were only 24,000 Jews in Palestine in the 1880s. Oh yes, but that means they've always been there! Yeah right.

The Palestinian population PRECEDED the Israelites. Don't believe me: open your Bible and see how the Hebrew Bible talks about how the Israelites slaughtered the native inhabitants by the Command of God. Just read in the Hebrew Bible how entire cities were razed to the ground by God's Chosen People, how they killed everyone, including women, children, babies, and even unborn fetuses.

Of course Voice of Reason would find it informative: he's a bigot himself. ANYONE who claims the Palestinians were never a people is a racist Zionist. It's like arguing that blacks were never a people.

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## BuffedGuy

Here's a real documentary that explains the situation:

http://www.moviesfoundonline.com/occupation_101.php

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## BuffedGuy

Anyways, I apologize for losing my cool. Let me try explaining this calmly. 

The bigoted link posted by "Voice of Reason" pretends as if history began when the Jews came to Palestine. It completely skips over the fact that:
"Somewhere around 12,000 years ago, ancestors of what we now call Arabs began domesticating wild, sheep, oxen and goats in the foothills of Iraq, Iran, and Turkey...Around 10,000 years ago, ancestors of Arabs built the city of Jericho. Jericho is considered the first continuously inhabited city on earth...Jericho is located in what is now called the West Bank, part of the Occupied Territories [i.e. Occupied Palestine]"

(Arabs and Israel For Beginners, by Ron David, pp.16-17)
In other words, the link given by Voice of Reason argues that Jews have continuously inhabited Israel since Moses and the Israelites conquered Palestine. And based on this argument, they claim they have a greater right to Palestine than the Arabs. 

Of course, this line of argument is bunk, but let's entertain it anyways. Moses and the first Israelites lived about 3,500 years ago. But the Arabs had been in that territory since 10,000 years ago! So even from this angle, this Zionist argument is defeated.

Let's see what the Israelites did to the native Arabs of that time. We read:"The Hebrews struck first at Jericho, then 'put the Canaanites to the sword' and Canaanite culture to the torch."

(Arabs and Israel For Beginners, by Ron David, p.33)
So even from this angle, the Zionist argument goes down the drain.

As for the claim that Jews have had a continuous presence in the land, so have the Arabs, as the underlined part above demonstrates.

Furthermore, the weakness in their argument can be shown by simply asking one simple question:

When did the Jews ever form a majority of the population in Palestine? When was the last year they were such? Obviously the sovereignty of a land belongs to those who make up a majority, and we can see from history that the Jews have never made up a majority of Palestine for more than thousands of years. It's like claiming that the Turkish people have a right to Central Asia, because they roamed that place thousands of years ago. Or that the Native Americans have a right to Russia, since they migrated to North America from Russia.

If a thousand Chinese people have lived in California for hundreds of years, does this mean that California is now Chinese land? This logic is truly absurd. Just because a handful of Jews have lived in Palestine doesn't mean the land is theirs. Jews have lived in America ever since its creation; worded the way the link did: the Jews have had a continuous presence in America since it was founded. So does this mean that America should be a Jewish country?

It's absurd. Sovereignty belongs to the MAJORITY of people, and Jews have never been a majority in America or Palestine...at least not for thousands of years. 

But again, I will ask Voice of Reason: 

1. When was the last time--before the creation of the State of Israel--that the Jews ever formed a majority in the land of Palestine?

2. Furthermore, please explain why a man from Venezuela who converts to Judaism has a right to "return" to Palestine, whereas a Native Palestinian whose ancestors have lived there for hundreds of years has no Right of Return to his land when expelled by Israelis?

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## goose

Very good posts buffedguy.

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## smokethedays

> These helped me give me some insight:
> 
> *History of Israel in a Nutshell*
> 
> *History of Israel in a Nutshell 2*
> 
> *The Middle East*


 :LOL:  WTF was that?

Pro-Israel kindergarten brain wash presentation? 
It sounds like it was made by some low end Zionist agency for kids.

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## BuffedGuy

> Very good posts buffedguy.


Thank you. 




> WTF was that?
> 
> Pro-Israel kindergarten brain wash presentation? 
> It sounds like it was made by some low end Jewish agency for kids.


_Akhee_, please edit your post to say "Zionist", not Jewish. _Jazakh-Allah khair_, may Allah [swt] reward you.

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## Matt

Just to make this clear, i thought Voice of Reasons post was interesting, if he believes it to be true then this is his choice. We all believe what we want, true or false, everyone is different.

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## Matt

What id like to know is this and maybe someone may have the answer. What do the israelis want to become of Gaza? Do they want it to become an independent state? An independent country? Just a plot of land that they control? I know they'd like to wipe Gaza off the map, but thats never going to happen. So what is it they want??

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## FallenWyvern

> What id like to know is this and maybe someone may have the answer. What do the israelis want to become of Gaza? Do they want it to become an independent state? An independent country? Just a plot of land that they control? I know they'd like to wipe Gaza off the map, but thats never going to happen. So what is it they want??


The recently found natural gas reserves in Gaza?

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## smokethedays

> Thank you. 
> 
> 
> 
> _Akhee_, please edit your post to say "Zionist", not Jewish. _Jazakh-Allah khair_, may Allah [swt] reward you.


Edited.

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## smokethedays

> What id like to know is this and maybe someone may have the answer. What do the israelis want to become of Gaza? Do they want it to become an independent state? An independent country? Just a plot of land that they control? I know they'd like to wipe Gaza off the map, but thats never going to happen. So what is it they want??


They want to continue building settelments in Gaza and make sure they stay safe, in other words, they Gaza arms free, except for the Jewish settlers in the settelments and if Hamas is wiped out and Abbas rules over Gaza, then they'd propably allow some kind of light weapons for a local Palestinian police.

Generally speaking, Gaza will never be 100% Palestinian occupied, ther are many settlements built and continue to be built there.

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## jimmyinkedup

smoke i wanna ask you this in all seriousness and no disrespect intended. U are now a us citizen correct? What are you doing to evoke change in our policies? Are you playing an active role in your local regional and national politics by voting on all levels and writing congressmen , senators etc... B/c there is alot of anger in your directed twords the US but obviously you personally realize the value of being a part/citizen of this counrty. I agree with some of your points as ive expressed, sometimes your personal anger over rides objective opinion...but hey thats ok ..in the US its even your right. SO bottom line...are you just creating an awareness about what you see as a problem...or are you actively being a part of the solution?

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## smokethedays

> smoke i wanna ask you this in all seriousness and no disrespect intended. U are now a us citizen correct? What are you doing to evoke change in our policies? Are you playing an active role in your local regional and national politics by voting on all levels and writing congressmen , senators etc... B/c there is alot of anger in your directed twords the US but obviously you personally realize the value of being a part/citizen of this counrty. I agree with some of your points as ive expressed, sometimes your personal anger over rides objective opinion...but hey thats ok ..in the US its even your right. SO bottom line...are you just creating an awareness about what you see as a problem...or are you actively being a part of the solution?


I am not a US citizen yet. But I don't have to be a US citizen to spread awarness, yes I do. I always get asked by people about the Middle East issues becasue of heritage. So I do always talk about it, and explain to people how the media here re-formats every thing. 

I do not have any anger towards the US as people, I love this country as people, there are just lots of freedom here, I can't hate that. I hate the international policies of this country. All I can tell you with no further detials that I do help this country in a way I am not permitted to talk about to public.

There isn't anything in the wrold better than being able to have equal chance (almost guaranteed in the US) for education, good living standard, health, and practice of religion freely, than the United States, I can't and will never hate that like I said. 

I just see a lot of injustice in the policies the US have towards the Middle East. And that angers me totally like you said, I think I have the right to be because ALL of my family are there, between Syria, Egypt, and Jordan.

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## amcon

> WTF was that?
> 
> Pro-Israel kindergarten brain wash presentation? 
> It sounds like it was made by some low end Jewish agency for kids.


dude you are angry, and not the least bit willing to step our out of you anger and look... that is what scares people - your scaring me... good luck, that must be something you need to get a hold of and over come..

 : 1106:

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## jimmyinkedup

> I am not a US citizen yet. But I don't have to be a US citizen to spread awarness, yes I do. I always get asked by people about the Middle East issues becasue of heritage. So I do always talk about it, and explain to people how the media here re-formats every thing. 
> 
> I do not have any anger towards the US as people, I love this country as people, there are just lots of freedom here, I can't hate that. I hate the international policies of this country. All I can tell you with no further detials that I do help this country in a way I am not permitted to talk about to public.
> 
> There isn't anything in the wrold better than being able to have equal chance (almost guaranteed in the US) for education, good living standard, health, and practice of religion freely, than the United States, I can't and will never hate that like I said. 
> 
> I just see a lot of injustice in the policies the US have towards the Middle East. And that angers me totally like you said, I think I have the right to be because ALL of my family are there, between Syria, Egypt, and Jordan.


Oh u absolutely have the right to your anger and opinions...the US is one of only a handful of countries where having and expressing that anger is legally accepted! I just hope when / if the opportunity presents itself you act as diligently and enthusiastically by taking action, voting ,contacting politicains etc.... thats my main point. One of the biggest problems i see in the US is passive acceptance..people forget that if we truly utilize our democaratic system...really get involved we can evoke change. So many have become lazy and quick to point fingers and not act....they have lost what is the true beauty of a democracy. As a result ..corruption and poor foreign policy, as well as other important isuues, remain unchecked.

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## smokethedays

> dude you are angry, and not the least bit willing to step our out of you anger and look... that is what scares people - your scaring me... good luck, that must be something you need to get a hold of and over come..


F-off. or grow up, do something about your pathetic self before you crash into reality and find out how much of piece of shit you are. I really don't know what else I can do more than ignoring you, which I did for thpast couple days, but it don't seem to work with retards like you.

So maybe you should understand that I am not interested in arguing/replying to ur posts or anything of that sort. 

So Do me and all this board members a favor so the threads stay clean, FVCK OFF my way.

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## smokethedays

> Oh u absolutely have the right to your anger and opinions...the US is one of only a handful of countries where having and expressing that anger is legally accepted! I just hope when / if the opportunity presents itself you act as diligently and enthusiastically by taking action, voting ,contacting politicains etc.... thats my main point. One of the biggest problems i see in the US is passive acceptance..people forget that if we truly utilize our democaratic system...really get involved we can evoke change. So many have become lazy and quick to point fingers and not act....they have lost what is the true beauty of a democracy. As a result ..corruption and poor foreign policy, as well as other important isuues, remain unchecked.


 :Thumps Up:

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## Matt

> F-off. or grow up, do something about your pathetic self before you crash into reality and find out how much of piece of shit you are. I really don't know what else I can do more than ignoring you, which I did for thpast couple days, but it don't seem to work with retards like you.
> 
> So maybe you should understand that I am not interested in arguing/replying to ur posts or anything of that sort. 
> 
> So Do me and all this board members a favor so the threads stay clean, FVCK OFF my way.


x2 about time someone said it..

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## Matt

> They want to continue building settelments in Gaza and make sure they stay safe, in other words, they Gaza arms free, except for the Jewish settlers in the settelments and if Hamas is wiped out and Abbas rules over Gaza, then they'd propably allow some kind of light weapons for a local Palestinian police.
> 
> Generally speaking, Gaza will never be 100% Palestinian occupied, ther are many settlements built and continue to be built there.


Lets hope that one day Gaza will 100% Palestinian. 

Then there will be peace....

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## spywizard

> *Edit* Not sure why the pics aren't posting, copy and paste. Might be better but they are graphic to say the least
> 
> 
> I saw these and just want to puke, I am so sick of this world and how mainly America and Americans don't give a shit about anything other than themselves and cannot see the world from any other perspective. We point the finger at nations "You are bad", "We are good" and everyone jumps on the bandwagon. There is a difference between being Patriotic and being a blind sheep.
> 
> This makes me extremely sad and sick as I sit here and type this. I am sitting comfortably in my apartment well fed and no worries compared to these people. 
> 
> Israel is brutalising Palastenians as we speak, who is wrong, who is right? Knowing the history of this displaced people (Jews) I feel bad for the Palastenians. They have no chance against the Israeli war machine which is financed and backed by The United States of America. 
> 
> ...



Actually i can imagine it.. right here in the USA.... The government against private citizens...

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## spywizard

see.. once again proof that the political forum has no place here.. tsk tsk

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