# FITNESS and NUTRITION FORUM > DIET AND NUTRITION >  My 'get lean' progress log

## krugerr

Hey there all, 

Two months ago my girlfriends made me a bet, if I could get a 6-pack, I would be rewarded with a 'sexy-time' treat. Game on I thought. 
Anyway, so began my diet change, I have been weightlifting since the age of 14, not seriously mind you, but just as a hobby as my dad was big into his bodybuilding and his steroids !
I have taken more seriously to training in the last 18months or so, having completed two courses of steroids. Yes, I know, Im too young, lets skip the criticism there! Back on track, I gained a serious amount of size, my first course I gained just over 2 stone (~30lbs) of course I lost some when I came off and the water went, due to the sheer amount of food I was consuming, I gained a bit of a gut with it, the gut stayed along with the majority of the muscle gains, 9 months later I ran my second course, again, putting on only ~20lbs this time, I got some good weight and strength gains, but my gut increased again.

So here we are, below are some pictures taken today. I unfortunately didnt think of taking some pictures back when the game began. So I'll post a rough daily diet, macros and my supplementation and exercise later. If anyone cares to guess at my BF% it would be appreciated. I think its around the 20% but its an uneducated guess. I'll be keeping weekly pictures coming. 

The decision to change to an IF diet on 05/10/12.

Stats-
Age: 23
Height: 194cm (6'4")
Weight: 118kg (264lbs)
Bf%: 19%
TDEE: 3363calories
Using 405's LBM*15 = 3208calories

Chest Size: 48"
Arm Size: 18"
Neck Size 18"
waist Size 38" 

Daily Intake: 2900cal
Protein: 290g
Carbs: 290g
Fat: 68g

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## --->>405<<---

kruger welcome man. remember to most accurately calculate ur starting tdee u need ur bf%

fat does not contribute to ur caloric requirements therefore it should NOT be included in ur formula for caloric needs..

good starting maintenance: LBM x 15

read sticky:

dieting 101: cutting

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...g#.UFnVho2PW6M

*GET UR BF%!!!*

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## krugerr

Noted, thanks buddy, I'll need to find my BF% soon, I often train at a nice gym in Camberly, and I know they have the facilities to check, I'll get it done asap.

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## Back In Black

This is gonna be hard work. It had better be a 3some weekend!

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## krugerr

It's something along those lines my friend.  :Wink: 

It is going to be hard work, I've never cut before because I've never been worried. I'm big all over, and my gut isn't excessive. However I dont like to be beaten. So this will be my first cut. 

Im going to update the OP later with my basic diet. Cooking and watching my son means I'm only on my iPhone right now, I hate writing proper threads if I'm not on a computer! 
I've been using ECA's (T5's) for the last month and have noticed a bodyfat loss. I know that for a real change though, it's in the kitchen I need the changes. 

Regards
Krugerr

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## krugerr

*** Edited to reflect new IF diet and training ***


So here is the start to my Diet and Exercise regime. Im not finished working out the diet plan yet. I am still working out food values and reading advice on other threads, so this post is going to be edited until I get it exactly right.

The reason for my somewhat weird workout plan is due to University on Monday/Tuesday mornings, as I commute I need to leave at 7:30am. I am following a modified powerlifting routine, 5x5 on my Deadlift/Squat/bench followed by 8-10 reps on my isolating exercises. Incorperating the deep-stretching methods, inspired by this thread HERE.
Training will be Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Doing a Back, Chest, Squats respectively. With every other Tuesday having a dedicated Arms day.

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## MR-FQ320

Welcome, we need more details on 'sexy time' if we are to help you any further, that includes pics of said girlfriend, haha lol

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## krugerr

Haha, I'll try and convince her to let me post pictures of her! 

The "Sexy-Time" will be revealed when I hit target!

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## krugerr

OK, after some research and prepwork. I have decided to rewrite my diet into an IF diet. So I'll include the update here, as well as the OP. 
Intermittent Fasting. *Fatman* and *GBrice75* threads played a big hand in my decision to change to this diet. Much thanks goes to those two for their very informative posts.

Starting tomorrow on a 16/8 split. My fasted time is 8pm-12am. Leaving me 8hours of food-time between midday and 8pm. 

My TDEE is 3360 calories. Now, I am confused as to how much of a deficit I should do for this diet? 
I was thinking 400calories, So using that, my daily intake will be 2900calories. 

Im going to be using a 40/40/20 split. Daily intake 290g protein, 290g Carbs, 64g Fat. 

Questions before I start. Some feedback on the following would be appreciated.
 
1) My calorie deficit. 
2) My macro split.
3) My timing split. 
4) Can the split be moved? If I knew for example I was not going to be able to eat until 9pm, could I move my fasted time until 1pm and then correct it the day after??

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## krugerr

Day 1:


No trouble waiting until midday for my first meal. I worked last night and didnt get in until 2AM, so this helped. I'm working again tonight. Monday will be the challenge. 

No training today.

--Update-- 

Last meal of the day was a huge pasta bake. I've yet to work the macros for it. Stuffed myself. Tonight is the first night ill have to restrain myself. Working on the door with all the coffee/hot chocolate and snacks I can eat. Just water for me though!!

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## krugerr

Day 2:


Again, the fasted stage today was easy as I was at work until 0300, and slept until 1300. Will be slightly lacking on protein today unless I eat another chicken breast.
My bloody protein order was delayed until Monday.

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## MR-FQ320

Use www.myfitnesspal.com as a calorie counter to keep track and plan your calories and macros, It sounds like your struggling to keep to a schedule already, especially with your crazy schedule.

keep going man.

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## krugerr

Thanks buddy. I'll start using the app. 

I'm doing the macros by hand currently!

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## krugerr

Heading to the cinema in an hour. My girlfriend is already teasing me. 
Hopefully the movie is good enough that I'll be able to ignore her chomping throughout it!

Taken 2 - ill post a mini review tomorrow!

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## MR-FQ320

I'll look forward to it.

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## krugerr

Day 3:

10am:- 
two hours until I can have my first meal. I'm sat in my lectures and my stomach is rumbling so loud that people keep looking at me. I keep sipping water in the hope of distracting myself. 
For those interested, Taken2 is really worth a watch. Sitting next to my girlfriend as she scoffed popcorn was hard for the first 10 minutes, bitch kept teasing me. After my craving went down I had no trouble watching her eat it.


7:00pm:-
30 minutes cardio on the bike. Cycled 14km, then onto a 5x5 chest session. Overall feel well worked. 
Mrs has just cooked a large chicken curry. So an hour in which to eat!!

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## MR-FQ320

I had 200gram egg whites with a scoop of protein powder and creating for breakfast this morning. I think you should have had the same.

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## krugerr

That would break the IF routine! 55 minutes til food! My hunger pang was bad between hours 12 - 14. It's subsided, for now.

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## krugerr

Updated today fully. 

Damn that cardio took it put of me. 9pm bedtime!!

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## krugerr

Day 4:

Just having my first meal. The hunger strikes haven't been as bad today, but maybe I was just distracted with lectures. Slept well last night after that cardio! Finding that 2900 calories is a little too much to force in during 8 hours. Thinking of dropping to 2500, but I'll see how I feel after 10 days. It just may be a case of getting used to this routine. 

I have found that the principle of not eating for 16hours is really easy and simple. It's cut and dry. I often find diets difficult to stick to if I have to eat X amounts of food at Y times. 

-Krugerr

Weight this morning. Exactly 18stone or 112.5kg.

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## krugerr

Day 5:

7am:
start as per usual, my son has a built in alarm clock, I swear!! 
Heading over to Golds Gym this morning for some Fasted Cardio and a dead lifting session. Going to hopefully get a 9-point caliber test done.


1pm:
Had a 30minute fasted cardio session on the spinning bikes, followed by a good deadlifting session! Wasn't even hungry at lunch time!

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## krugerr

Started using MyFitnessPal properly today. Got the Macros split to 40/40/20. 

Added my cardio successfully. But I just wanted to add a workout, but you can only add individual exercises/rep/weight. This doesn't add calories burned. 

-Krugerr

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## MR-FQ320

Yeah to be honest , I don't count gym time as a calorie deficit, I just use to track my food. 

If you really wanted to you could add it and make an estimation on how many calories you think u burned.

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## krugerr

> Yeah to be honest , I don't count gym time as a calorie deficit, I just use to track my food.
> 
> If you really wanted to you could add it and make an estimation on how many calories you think u burned.


I wasn't so worried about it, it just means that when I hit my calorie allowance. I'm actually still to subtract what I burned with weights. So it's just creating even more calorie deficit. Win!

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## MR-FQ320

Exactly my thoughts.

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## krugerr

Day 6: 

I seem to be super tired in the evenings, this is probably due to the shock to my system "Cardio"!!

Using MyFitnessPal fully now, great app. I'll post a link later of my profile so you guys can see what I'm eating etc. 

Just at University now, I finish in 2 hours, then off for another cardio session and Arm session.

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## krugerr

Back from the gym. Chicken is cooking. 

I missed the train, had to rush through the gym so ended up skipping the cardio in favor of the arm workout. I have time for a longer fasted cardio tomorrow morning though, so I'll make up the difference then.

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## krugerr

Day 7:

Had to cancel training today as work want me early, and I'm having to wait in for a delivery! Why can't the bastards be more specific than 10am-4pm??

Anyhow, diets still going well, made myself another big chicken curry. Girlfriend says I look slimmer, but I think she's just got the placebo effect because she knows I'm dieting. Scales said yesterday that I am 2lbs lighter. I'm not really counting that though, it could easily just be water/food. 

Thank you to anybody actually reading this! 

-Krugerr

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## krugerr

Day 8:

Started work at 5pm yesterday, I'm not finishing until 11:30pm tonight. Love 30.5 hour shifts! 
Due to this I've had no sleep, I'm dosed up on black coffee and caffeine tablets. 
IF had to be relaxed, for this weekend, it's a major security event so I'm pulling a triple shift + a shift on Sunday. No fridge or microwave for my food. The only thing available is Carnival food, McDonalds and KFC. 
**** my life. I'm trying to keep calories under the 2600 mark. But I'm really just guessing, the carnie food stands have more hidden calories than I can fathom. Limited yesterday to a brut-wurst sausage and home made chicken curry. 
Today I'm going to the 'Exotic Burger' stand to grab some bison meat. Calorie logs are on hold until Monday. 

Gotta love my job though, how many calories do you burn for 30.5 hours of standing/walking?!? That might help cover any lapse in diet. 

Krugerr

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## MR-FQ320

Don't let your weekend work schedule ruin a hard weeks training and dieting, I suggest you make a pack up and take it with you

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## krugerr

Unfortunately I did 36hours straight. I had no oppertunity to go home for food. I managed to keep what I ate under 2600... I hope! ****ing festivals. But $17/hr is not too bad for the whole shift!

Managed to stick to IF yesterday, even though the food wasn't clean. Today is back on the diet. 

-Krugerr

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## krugerr

Day 10:

Weight: ive dropped 4lbs this week. 

Just at the gym and completed a 25mins on the CrossTrainer! Just about to start on Back. If anyone has suggestions for reading material relating to IF, I would appreciate it. I have starts another thread. But got no replies. 

Krugerr

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## Brick

Started following your log! Lets see you turn into the British Hulk!

My two cents. 
Maybe more protein % less carb %
60/20/20? That's what I use, but I don't do IF!

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## krugerr

Many thanks Bucka! 

I may switch to 60/20/20 when the weight loss plateaus. It's only been 10 days and I've lost 4lbs. I'll see how it's going in a couple of weeks!

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## 951thompson

> Day 10:
> 
> Weight: ive dropped 4lbs this week.
> 
> Just at the gym and completed a 25mins on the CrossTrainer! Just about to start on Back. If anyone has suggestions for reading material relating to IF, I would appreciate it. I have starts another thread. But got no replies.
> 
> Krugerr


Have you been on leangains dot com? Some good info about IF there.

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## krugerr

> Have you been on leangains dot com? Some good info about IF there.


Thank you for the reply, Mario! Ive checked it out a couple of times, but I am a real stickler for hard copies. I can highlight bits, mark pages etc. I find trying to read a book in Adobe awkward. that LeanGains seems a too full of links. 
I just want to read about IF, not be linked to peoples reveiws or success stories!  :Wink: 

Krugerr

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## 951thompson

> Thank you for the reply, Mario! Ive checked it out a couple of times, but I am a real stickler for hard copies. I can highlight bits, mark pages etc. I find trying to read a book in Adobe awkward. that LeanGains seems a too full of links.
> I just want to read about IF, not be linked to peoples reveiws or success stories! 
> 
> Krugerr


Hehe Mario :-) yeah it's abit disorganized leangains website. Some good reading there tho. Have you tried amazon dot com?

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## krugerr

Yup I had a look. Found a few relevant ones. I was just interested in member reviews before I purchased! I might just bite the bullet and buy a couple! 

Krugerr

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## krugerr

Day 11:

Having to take a day off Uni as my girlfriend and son have a sickness bug! I haven't caught it yet. This does mean I get to go to the gym today though, which I normally don't have time for on a Tuesday. 
I've got some nice DOMs on my traps and lats from yesterday's gym session. 
40minutes til I can eat, I'm really looking forward to a shake and chicken!!

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## MR-FQ320

Any visual progress in the mirror yet ?

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## krugerr

I 'think' my love handles look a little smaller, but its a tough call. Looking in the mirror myself I'm almost certain to trick myself into seeing changes. I will post pictures on day 14. I think fortnightly picture updates as well. I dont want to post too many, otherwise the differences between them might not be that great. 
Been looking for a cheap set of BF% calipers, will these do? LINK

Im now using 2600calories as my daily requirement, putting me ~700 calories in deficit, this hasnt really affected me though. I am feeling a little hungry towards the last few hours of fasting, but nothing major.

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## digsy1983

the calipers will do for short term, the plastic spring weakens over time throwing off reading slightly. i got mine off a popular auction site for £1.99 inc postage. use for a couple of months then get new. 

pics are defo the way to go! sometimes it all seems pointless when looking in the mirror, but the pics defo show progress giving you that extra pick up you need to keep on going! 

as for the food/eating problems i bought a load of tupperware and pre-cook my food then as long as you can find time to eat, you know what your eating and that your within your diet structure. i'd put tupperware above sliced bread!!

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## krugerr

Perfect response! Thanks Digsby! I shall order those calipers, then I can keep weekly bf% charts and bi-weekly picture updates. 

I do use Tupperware when I'm off to Uni, it's a bloody godsend!  :Smilie:

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## krugerr

Day 12:

Just finished 25mins fasted cardio on the spinning bikes, and a 50min intense chest session. 
I'm finding that I fatigue quicker on a fasted workout, but my strength isn't lacking on the main exercise. In this case, Bench, I'm actually increasing my strength, but the following exercises, like flys, are much lower weight.

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## MR-FQ320

I cannot recall your workout schedule but its probably glycogen store depletion.

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## krugerr

Thanks buddy, that probably does explain it! Lol.

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## krugerr

I've been slowing increasing my protein and decreasing my carbs. Not deliberately, but it just works out easier. 
The last couple days have been approximately:
50% protein (323g)
30% fat (86g)
20% carb. (138g)

The fat is coming mainly from some cheese, and full-fat milk. I'll cut the milk down, and use some water to reduce that, bringing it more into 60/20/20. 
I'm feeling a lot more full with the higher protein and lower carbs. Calipers are in the mail, so I hope to have pictures and BF% update around day 14-16. 

Krugerr

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## MR-FQ320

I think you will meet your target by Xmas , in fact im sure of it, if u stay the distance that is :-)

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## digsy1983

> I've been slowing increasing my protein and decreasing my carbs. Not deliberately, but it just works out easier. 
> The last couple days have been approximately:
> 50% protein (323g)
> 30% fat (86g)
> 20% carb. (138g)
> 
> The fat is coming mainly from some *cheese, and full-fat milk*. I'll cut the milk down, and use some water to reduce that, bringing it more into 60/20/20. 
> I'm feeling a lot more full with the higher protein and lower carbs. Calipers are in the mail, so I hope to have pictures and BF% update around day 14-16. 
> 
> Krugerr


cheese and full fat milk on cut? brave boy!!

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## krugerr

I said 'some' cheese and milk! I had a really big craving for tuna-cheese melt after the gym today. 

1 can of tuna, spread over whole meal toast. Slice of cheese on top and grilled. Amazing PWO meal. Although I know I am cutting, so I need to restrict it! Lol. 

Today is the last day of full-fat milk. I'll be using milk in 1 of my shakes. The rest will be water from now on. 

I'm really hating the cardio, I'm switching between cycling and crosstrainers. Does anyone have a preference? They appear to burn around the same amount of calories in a 30minute period. My heart rate is higher on the CrossTrainer than bike. Is this something I should be looking at? 

Krugerr

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## MR-FQ320

Yeah look at buying a proper mountain bike and an iPod lol far more interesting scenery , and it can save you time too if you cycle to gym or work or whatever

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## digsy1983

> I said 'some' cheese and milk! I had a really big craving for tuna-cheese melt after the gym today. 
> 
> 1 can of tuna, spread over whole meal toast. Slice of cheese on top and grilled. Amazing PWO meal. Although I know I am cutting, so I need to restrict it! Lol. 
> 
> Today is the last day of full-fat milk. I'll be using milk in 1 of my shakes. The rest will be water from now on. 
> 
> I'm really hating the cardio, I'm switching between cycling and crosstrainers. Does anyone have a preference? They appear to burn around the same amount of calories in a 30minute period. My heart rate is higher on the CrossTrainer than bike. Is this something I should be looking at? 
> 
> Krugerr


haha wasnt having a pop about the milk n cheese. even on a cut youve still got live. 

as for the cardio id go with what ever get you closer to the 70% bpm rule and what you feel comfortable on. i feel the cross trainer burns more cals, but i find it really borning! on the exercise bike i watch films on my ipad so i drift off and dont really notice th time. ive recently just bought a heart/pulse monitor paid £75 for it and its well worth the money. (my exercise bike doesnt have a bpm monitor, and i do a bit of raod biking aswel) id recomend them for ppl on a cut.

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## krugerr

> Yeah look at buying a proper mountain bike and an iPod lol far more interesting scenery , and it can save you time too if you cycle to gym or work or whatever


I did have a mountain bike, I worked at Halfords Bikehut, so it was proper kitted out! But due to my weight I was buckling the wheels quite often!




> haha wasnt having a pop about the milk n cheese. even on a cut youve still got live.
> 
> as for the cardio id go with what ever get you closer to the 70% bpm rule and what you feel comfortable on. i feel the cross trainer burns more cals, but i find it really borning! on the exercise bike i watch films on my ipad so i drift off and dont really notice th time. ive recently just bought a heart/pulse monitor paid £75 for it and its well worth the money. (my exercise bike doesnt have a bpm monitor, and i do a bit of raod biking aswel) id recomend them for ppl on a cut.


70% max heart rate? So [220-(age)=MHR], my max heart rate is then 197, [197*0.7=138]. 
I'll keep that in mind when I'm next working out!
Yea I agree, I feel more spent after the CrossTrainer, but it's readout says the calorie burn is roughly equal to the bike, and I can geek on my phone whilst on the bike. So I suppose I'll stick to the bike!!
I may invest in a heart rate monitor, I'm not sure I trust the hand-grip ones that are built into the handles. 

Krugerr

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## digsy1983

yeah thats the 70% bpm fat burning zone. any higher and your body cant burn fat that fast so it reverts to breaking down muscle for energy.

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## krugerr

> yeah thats the 70% bpm fat burning zone. any higher and your body cant burn fat that fast so it reverts to breaking down muscle for energy.


Very good to know. Thanks buddy! Now I have ammunition to fire at my girlfriend when I order a heart rate monitor!  :Wink: 
My bro was over about half an hour ago and said it looks like I've lost some weight on my upper chest. That's good. Although I'm not seeing myself. Pictures will be up in a couple days to confirm. 

Krugerr

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## digsy1983

because you see yourself everyday you wont notice the change! ive cut down from 18st to 13.8st and at times i dont think ive changed that much! think its human nature aswel to be overly critical of themselves. if people are making remarks you are showing good signs of progress! dont be fooled!!! 
keep at it and you will get the results you desire!!

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## krugerr

Appreciate the feedback and response  :Smilie: 

It makes keeping a log like this easier if you know people are reading it! There is also more incentive to do well!

Krugerr

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## digsy1983

no worries bud! glad to help. 

just get the bf% up and the pics then ppl will be able to guage where you're at and encourage you on! good part of a log is you can always ask for help and the experiencd guys know youre serious about your goals so they will prob give you a bit more advice and explain things better.

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## krugerr

Day 13:

Heading off to Uni in an hour. I fancy a leg session today, so I think I'll do my cardio after my workout! I made a godawful pasta bake last night, ended up throwing it away and having a large thick protein shake.

10AM: sitting in the station, all I can smell is the bloody bakery! This is pure torture! I allowed myself a good old sniff whilst waiting for my black coffee. Now my stomach is grumbling at me for teasing it.

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## krugerr

Day 14: 

Woke up so thirsty last night, grabbed the nearest glass and downed it. Turned out to be my girlfriends vile juice, warm... Mmmm

I'm gonna go shower and take some pictures. I'll keep them decent lol. 
Whole day off, heading to do a nice cardio session after lunch.

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## krugerr

Ok, as promised. It isn't a great picture. Sorry about that. I'll try and get the Mrs to take one later!

Had a good arm session followed by 50mins Cardio. Using advice from DigsyI kept my heartrate between 138-142 the whole time. It felt quite easy, but I suppose that's the point of 70%MHR?

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## Back In Black

Mate, re: cardio. Just do it. Your bf is high enough to not worry about muscle if you do a higher intensity fasted cardio. The old 70% fat burn zone is true but slightly outdated in thought and practice.

When I dropped to 7% earlier in the year I would do 2 mornings of 70%MHR and 2 mornings that incorporated HIIT, LIC and other intervals.

Now then, are you doing cardio then lifting straight away or did I get that wrong?

Also, your macro split, I'd swap fats and carbs around, your fat should max at about 20%.

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## krugerr

> Mate, re: cardio. Just do it. Your bf is high enough to not worry about muscle if you do a higher intensity fasted cardio. The old 70% fat burn zone is true but slightly outdated in thought and practice.
> 
> When I dropped to 7% earlier in the year I would do 2 mornings of 70%MHR and 2 mornings that incorporated HIIT, LIC and other intervals.
> 
> Now then, are you doing cardio then lifting straight away or did I get that wrong?
> 
> Also, your macro split, I'd swap fats and carbs around, your fat should max at about 20%.


Oh righto, ths 70%MHR isnt very intense at all, it felt like a casual exercise, but Im not going to argue! I'll try to include 2 more intense sessions.
You are correct, I am doing my cardio, and then starting to workout within 5mins of finishing. Is this good or bad? 

Change my split to 50p/30c/20f ? Thanks for replying!

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## Back In Black

Cardio AFTER lifting yes.

50/30/20 pro/carbs/fat yes.

Keep going mate!

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## krugerr

> Cardio AFTER lifting yes.


Because I'm a need-to-know-nerd, why after? Are there benefits? Is it bad to cardio before? I always 'assumed' it was a good way to warm up for a workout!

Thanks!

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## Back In Black

Because I'm assuming, like most if us, you want a muscular lean physique rather than a lean physique that's muscular. Make sense? You said you are tired lifting after cardio, this way you can give your all to lifting weights then do your cardio.

Best way to warm up for lifting is to lift with lighter weights for a few sets before your heavy lifts and maybe some dynamic stretching.

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## krugerr

Thanks SteM! I'll do it that way around in future. 


Krugerr

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## digsy1983

Look into glycogen stores, that will give you a good idea why cardio is best after lifting. More info you have on what youre doing the more doin it makes sense. 
It's a massive learning curve this whole fitness/diet saga. I've spent moths reading/researching what and why for all sorts of things, luckily I find it really interesting. 

Have you got your BF chest done? Early on the bathroom scales will be a great indicator, but later on they can drive you mad! BF checks is the way to go rather than scales.

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## krugerr

My calipers are In the mail somewhere! They should be arriving Monday/Tuesday. I'll be interested to see what it says. I have this horrible feeling its going to be a number I won't like!! Lol. 
This will just add to the motivation though, so it's a good thing knowing.

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## digsy1983

With the right diet and exercise (that you've now got) yal soon fly down that BF%.

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## Back In Black

Calipers give a fairly inaccurate reading for those in excess of 20%. You are probably 25% ish at the moment. As Digsy says, the scales won't lie right now.

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## krugerr

Thank you guys! The scales today read 248lbs. But I had eaten and drunk quite a lot of water. Mondays scales said 250, and that was fasted. 
So the scale direction is good. 
I'm only recording my fasted weight, I just felt like jumping on the scales today. 

I'll bear that in mind STEM when I use those calipers. 

Krugerr

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## krugerr

Day 15:

My calipers arrived!! Playing around with it now, I can really see that they're cheap! Using FireGuys guide so when the mrs is home, il get her to help me and I shall put a BF% up. I am bearing in mind that SteM said anything over 20% is hazy. 

I got a nice big steak for my dinner. Got solid Doms in my triceps. But my biceps not so much! Shame. Felt like I blasted them yesterday!

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## digsy1983

Pain isn't always a sign that you worked a muscle group hard! Although early on it does feel like it is. 
Biceps are grouped with abbs and calves, they are designed to be constantly worked so they recover really fast. Don't think I've ever had painful biceps or calves the day after. Defo had painfull abbs tho! 

This BF reading will be a good starting point from now on!

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## krugerr

Well the calipers, using the 9 point test as suggested by FireGuy says that I am 17.2% bodyfat... I think we messed up somewhere! We found the quad point, calf point and especially the kidney point very difficult to get readings on. I'll leave it until I drop more bodyfat via appearance before I try again. 

 FireGuys Tutorial

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## krugerr

I've been workout out semi-serious for 3 years. Ive never focused on diet until recently though. 
I always get DOMs, even if they are only mild. Lol. 

Gutted though that I didn't get a semi decent readout from the calipers.

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## digsy1983

What web site did you use to calculate it?

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## digsy1983

http://www.linear-software.com/online.html 

Try this site

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## Back In Black

This week I've had crazy DOMS in my biceps and calves!

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## digsy1983

I've never had any for my biceps or calves, even when I've blasted them! Either I'm lucky or slacking! I've purposely targetd calves to bring them up aswel.

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## krugerr

Digsy, I used that site in connection with the thread for these forums. 
That site gave me between 17-19% depending on which of the tests I did. I'm not too fussed, they were cheap calipers and I'll continue to do the measurements to record if there are any changes across the points. But I'm not using it as an accurate BF estimate. I'll go get a professional one done once you guys say I like around the 20%mark. 

I find I have to superset to get doms for arms normally.

----------


## krugerr

Day 16:

Eggs and gammon for breakfast today. Used the majority of my fat allowance. But it was worth it! 
Off to do some bloody DIY at the mother-in-laws

----------


## GirlyGymRat

Krug. i believe in goals....and yours is most interesting. Whatever it takes! LOL

I read thru your thread and pleased that you cut out the milk and cheese and added the cardio. these are all positive measures. some of the other fellas follow a 60/20/20 split when cutting but i think you need to figure out how your body responds and then make slight adjustments. keep your diet tight. diet is key!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Because I'm assuming, like most if us, you want *a muscular lean physique rather than a lean physique that's muscular*. Make sense? You said you are tired lifting after cardio, this way you can give your all to lifting weights then do your cardio.
> 
> Best way to warm up for lifting is to lift with lighter weights for a few sets before your heavy lifts and maybe some dynamic stretching.


Krug. i hope you don't mind if i ask Sir SteM to elaborate on this, either in your thread, or mine. When reading thru Krug's thread, this post and point made me pause and I am not sure that it makes sense to me, so much, that i am not sure what i want, tho leaning toward the latter! 

Thank you Krug for the interuption in your thread....carry on  :Big Grin:

----------


## krugerr

You're more than welcome to have that conversation in this thread, it's on topic, and it's more for me to learn! 
I'm surprised to say I'm actually starting to enjoy the cardio! I haven't done any running yet, but cycling/CrossTrainer I love!
Milk and cheese are gone. It pains me, but it had to be done. 
Thanks for reading!  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

GGR it's all about emphasis in a particular body style you want. In simple terms, would you rather look like a 100m sprinter over a 400 m sprinter. The former tends to focus more on size for power . Both types are probably equally as lean.

Point being, if you are not as bothered about muscle size then by all means do your cardio first.

When I PT'd it was extremely rare that any of my clients did their cardio first unless they had specific cardio goals. For almost everybody, gaining LBM is extremely difficult (naturally) so why make that job harder by lifting when tired!

Make sense?

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> GGR it's all about emphasis in a particular body style you want. In simple terms, would you rather look like a 100m sprinter over a 400 m sprinter. The former tends to focus more on size for power . Both types are probably equally as lean.
> 
> *Point being, if you are not as bothered about muscle size then by all means do your cardio first.*
> 
> When I PT'd it was extremely rare that any of my clients did their cardio first unless they had specific cardio goals.* For almost everybody, gaining LBM is extremely difficult (naturally) so why make that job harder by lifting when tired!*
> 
> Make sense?


I am a 400 m sprinter type physic but want the 100m sprinter look  :Wink:  Typical, want what I don't have/don't appreciate what I do have. I work my lifts in when I can either and sometimes lift and then spin and then finish lifting. I come to realize (most recently) that i must incorporate more lifting into my program in order to change a few areas of my body. I know that I can only grow muscles from lifting and want to lose 8 lbs of fat so am trying to figure out the most EFFICIENT WAY both of these! Seems I need to be lifting first/cardio second and never NEVER do leg days after spinning LOL! 

T/y Krug for my interruption and for Sir's response and explanation.

----------


## digsy1983

> GGR it's all about emphasis in a particular body style you want. In simple terms, would you rather look like a 100m sprinter over a 400 m sprinter. The former tends to focus more on size for power . Both types are probably equally as lean.
> 
> Point being, if you are not as bothered about muscle size then by all means do your cardio first.
> 
> When I PT'd it was extremely rare that any of my clients did their cardio first unless they had specific cardio goals. For almost everybody, gaining LBM is extremely difficult (naturally) so why make that job harder by lifting when tired!
> 
> Make sense?


does muscle type come more into play with this?

i.e doing cardio then wights is training the muslces to become a slow twitch fibre muscle cos this is where the muslce is being worked/used more? any weight session after cardio is going to be limited intensity and less power thus not causing the muscle to work/develop into a fast twitch fibres as it would from a higher intensity session without the cardio previous?

----------


## krugerr

Just a curious thought. I have a bottle of Testoviron in the cupboard from an over-order a little while ago. (Test Ent 300mg/ml) should I chuck this in at 300mg a week for 10 weeks to add a little oomph to my workouts? 
Or would that be entirely pointless? 

Krugerr

----------


## digsy1983

id say it would be best kept for when you can utalize it better. if your wanting it to gain LBM the diet you are doing wont yeld much results and if youre wanitng it to protect LBM while cutting, your (sorry about this) high BF levels will protect from losing LBM. could come in handy about 10-12%BF if still cutting or very handy on a bulking diet. 

just my 0.2.

----------


## krugerr

> id say it would be best kept for when you can utalize it better. if your wanting it to gain LBM then diet you are doing wont yeld much results and if youre wanitng it to protect LBM while cutting, *your (sorry about this) high BF levels* will protect from losing LBM. could come in handy about 10-12%BF if still cutting or very handy on a bulking diet.
> 
> just my 0.2.


Good feedback. Valid point! It's been staring at me from my supplement cupboard for a few months. I thought I'd ask the experts! Lol. You know how it is. I'll save it for my Tren /Test/Mast course at 15% !!
Also, don't worry. I know I have high BF!  :Wink:

----------


## digsy1983

youll have to wait till the experts reply then mate! 

im only speaking cos i did a var cycle when i was roughly 22%. i seen its as a quick solution, but really it was just a waste of time, money, effort and stress on my body that it didnt really need. looking back now i really wouldnt do it again as it was pointless.

----------


## krugerr

Fair do buddy! I'll keep that in mind!

----------


## Back In Black

> does muscle type come more into play with this?
> 
> i.e doing cardio then wights is training the muslces to become a slow twitch fibre muscle cos this is where the muslce is being worked/used more? any weight session after cardio is going to be limited intensity and less power thus not causing the muscle to work/develop into a fast twitch fibres as it would from a higher intensity session without the cardio previous?


Ha ha, nice thoughts. In reality it's all about lifting with the correct intensity and a higher weight, thereby giving better results in terms of muscle building. 

I have to say, I've been experimenting recently with different rep ranges for various reasons and am actually finding benefit from mixing up higher and lower reps, in terms of muscle growth. This way I am actually working fast and slow twitch throughout this workout regimen.

----------


## digsy1983

ha, if ya ever need anything over thought, just give me a shout! lol

----------


## Back In Black

> ha, if ya ever need anything over thought, just give me a shout! lol


No mate, it's good to think. If you don't, you end up like every other drone out there!!'n

----------


## krugerr

Day 17: 

Sat in a lecture and I'm so bloody bored that all I can think of is my stomach! Heading to the gym around 3 for a chest session and cardio!

6:15pm -
Just finished chest and 40mins cardio. 
I've found that doing my sets in a press/fly/press/fly manor gives me the most incredible doms. 

Today was:

Flat dumbell press-- (warmup)(10x28kg)(10x32kg)(8x36kg)
Flat dumbell fly - 4sets (12x12kg) real slow negative with deep stretch on every rep. 
Incline dumbell press -- (12x28kg)(10x32kg)(failure @ 36kg)
Incline/decline cable crossover -- medium weight, failure on each set, with 1 drop. Ie, each set is to failure, drop the weight and failure again. Very slow deep movements. 

My strength is really compromised with this workout. But the doms is fantastic!

----------


## krugerr

Just updated today's gym session. Had so e annoying guy get on the bike next to me after I'd been in for 25 mins. He cranked the bike difficulty right up, and pedalling as hard as he could, he kept looking at my display until he caught up my distance. Then he got off and went on the running machine. Wtf?

----------


## MR-FQ320

> Just updated today's gym session. Had so e annoying guy get on the bike next to me after I'd been in for 25 mins. He cranked the bike difficulty right up, and pedalling as hard as he could, he kept looking at my display until he caught up my distance. Then he got off and went on the running machine. Wtf?


Obviously thought he had some kind of point to prove to either himself or you,

----------


## krugerr

> Obviously thought he had some kind of point to prove to either himself or you,


He was probably thinking "why isn't this guy going as hard and fast as possible? Lazy bastard!!"

We have quite a few Asian members at my gym, they're all quite young and seem to like maxing out on the bike, running machine and rowing machine. Not sure if maybe it's just a cultural training thing? They tend to favor full-body workouts too. 

Note, that's just an observation from my gym. I'm not stereotyping.

----------


## MR-FQ320

Yeah I've seen those stereotypical types at a couple of gyms I attend, they tend to do full body once a month. Ha looooosers. Lol.

----------


## krugerr

Hahaha! These guys use all the machines in my gym, plus all the cardio machines, and usually complete that workout in 30mins. Intense!

----------


## MR-FQ320

Yeah and spend the rest of the time chatting and shit. Time for the headphones when these guys appear. Haha

----------


## krugerr

Agreed!! I find headphone during my workout awkward though. I'm always pulling them out, catching the cable, knocking my iPhone. I end up getting annoyed, typically, 1 ear peice will fall out the second I start my set. 

I might get one of the armband things and run the cable up my back. See if that's easier!

----------


## krugerr

Day 18:

Damn. Overnight my flexibity disappeared over night. Just tying my shoes this morning made my legs hurt, in definite need of some stretching when I get home today. 
Tuesdays are my worst day, I have 8hours solid of lectures with no break. Lame!

----------


## digsy1983

sounds a rough day that bud! but at least youre safe from guys on exercise bikes tho! every cloud and all that. lol

----------


## krugerr

That's true! Just got a nice text from the Mrs saying she got me a steak for dinner! Yum!

Tomorrow I'm off Uni, so a good solid back session and some cardio in the morning I think!

----------


## digsy1983

no updates on the bathroom scale readings???

----------


## krugerr

I use two different gyms. A really good gym for morning sessions and training with my step-father. And a crap local gym for the evening sessions. 
The crap local one put me at 17.5stone (245lbs) yesterday, that was in the evening having several meals and a lot of water in me. 
However, I'm am only using the morning weight at the proper gym for my official weekly weigh-ins. 

So tomorrow morning will be the weekly weigh in! I think it should be good. I'm feeling a little slimmer now, and I can see it in the mirror.

----------


## krugerr

Day 19:

Had a real good back session this morning. My strength was lagging in deadlifts though, only managed 340lbs for 3. I normally get it for 5 and move up to 365lbs. Nevermind, really felt the burn. 
Due to being so exhausted after this I kept the cardio to 25 mins.

----------


## krugerr

Planning my cheat meal day on Sunday. Pancakes for breakfast, pizza for dinner and Icecream! 
Tonight is a large 4egg omelette and a can of tuna! Nom!

----------


## Back In Black

> Planning my cheat meal day on Sunday. Pancakes for breakfast, pizza for dinner and Icecream!
> Tonight is a large 4egg omelette and a can of tuna! Nom!


I like Sundays meal better!

----------


## krugerr

Nah, I've always had a sweet tooth and a real love of fast food!

----------


## krugerr

Day 20:

Really suffering with Doms today. Lucky I'm on in Uni for a short time then home and off for a gym session!!
Had a super long hot bath and got the mrs to give me a massage! Awesome!

----------


## krugerr

Feel like my weightloss isn't fast enough. Should I reduce my carb intake to 50g or less, with a refeed every 7 days? Or should I bare with it, as it is only day 20. I'm such an impatient hulk lol. 

The scales were broken Wednesday, tomorrow morning I'll get a fasted weigh-in. Tomorrow is also sunbed and arms day! Followed by 45mins cardio.

----------


## MR-FQ320

50g and refeed every 7th day sounds good to me. When is the next refeed? 

Adjust as required man ie go for it, no point in waiting.

----------


## digsy1983

> Im now using 2600calories as my daily requirement, putting me ~700 calories in deficit, this hasnt really affected me though. I am feeling a little hungry towards the last few hours of fasting, but nothing major. 
> 
> I've been slowing increasing my protein and decreasing my carbs. Not deliberately, but it just works out easier. 
> The last couple days have been approximately:
> 50% protein (323g)
> 30% fat (86g)
> 20% carb. (138g)
> 
> The fat is coming mainly from some cheese, and full-fat milk. I'll cut the milk down, and use some water to reduce that, bringing it more into 60/20/20. 
> ...


is this still what your diet set up is??

are you still doing IF? can i ask why, if you dont mind. ?

are you losing aprox 2lbs a week? thats a good weight to lose, any more and you will more than likely reducing your LBM at the same time.

i found 7-8 meals a good plan to follow. meant i could structure my carbs PreWO and PWO with the rest of my meals being protein or protein/fat. 
i cut with 2200 cals 60/20/20.

----------


## Back In Black

There's no pint going sub 50g unless you go sub 20g and go into ketosis. That's a whole different story altogether.

Get your fasted weigh in and let's see how quickly it's dropping.

----------


## MR-FQ320

Oh yea forgot you were doing IF.

----------


## krugerr

Day 21:
Morning weight 248lbs. So that's 2lbs since last Monday. Is it possible that ice dropped some BF and gained some muscle, since my diet is a lot higher in protein now?

Or, any suggestions for changes to diet? Should I stick with IF? Change? Change my split?

----------


## Back In Black

2lbs in a week is perfect for you right now. More than that and it's likely you'll be losing LBM not gaining it.

----------


## krugerr

> 2lbs in a week is perfect for you right now. More than that and it's likely you'll be losing LBM not gaining it.


Do you think? I guess I was just a little impatient. So would you suggest sticking with my IF diet @2500cals in a 50/30/20 split? 

Mrs just said she found a bigger house for rent that has a basement. She said I could have the whole basement, which means I could get a bike and running machine at home, plus start a home gym!! It's a few months off though. 

I'm still contemplating running 600mg/wk test-Prop over Xmas. Now that I have a former grip on AI and PCT. I know I wouldn't be getting that bloated face and water retention of my previous courses. 

Krugerr

----------


## krugerr

Attached today pictures. Day 21.

----------


## Back In Black

We definitely have an improvement but you are not ready to do a cycle IMHO. 

Keep doing what you are doing mate.

----------


## krugerr

> We definitely have an improvement but you are not ready to do a cycle IMHO.
> 
> Keep doing what you are doing mate.


Noted. I know Digsy already said to hold off. I will. It's just so bloody tempting! 
Thanks for the comment about improvement. I can't wait til this guy is gone!

----------


## digsy1983

It's good going that man! From my experience weightloss isn't a consistent thing. Some weeks you'll drop more than previous weeks. Your current diet is working for you so I'd be reluctant to change it. As long as your getting healthy fats (that work along side weightloss) and not going over your cals I'd stick with what you've got. 

As for the cycle, what are you wanting to gain from it? Any possible gains you could squeeze out of it would be minimal at best. Cutting cycles are best for lower BF% ppl wanting to protect their lbm, and bulking cycles need a solid diet, or at least calorie excess diets. I mentioned why I thought it was a poor plan, just offering advice from my personal experience/view.

----------


## krugerr

I was just thinking that with my current diet. It would be a good idea to out some lean gains on and protect my LBM. 

I do pay heed to your warnings though. It's just the child in me wanting it now.  :Wink:  
Krugerr

----------


## krugerr

Day 22:


Just heading over to the local wholesaler to pick up 25lbs of chicken! Decided that tomorrow's refeed is going to be a TGI Fridays! Amazing! 

Getting bored of my menu, think I'm going to have to start experimenting this week!

----------


## digsy1983

Can't beat wholesale chicken, I buy 10kg at a time. Just a endless chore trimming the fat off it. Miles better tho than the supermarket crap.

----------


## krugerr

> Can't beat wholesale chicken, I buy 10kg at a time. Just a endless chore trimming the fat off it. Miles better tho than the supermarket crap.


The stuff I buy is £30 for 10kg. And it's really good quality, it needs no trimming. I bought the cheaper pack last time, and ended up trimming every bloody breast! Lol.

----------


## krugerr

Day 23:


>>>>REFEED DAY<<<<

Started my day like any other, gammon steak and eggs, coffee. 

I've been looking at the TGI Fridays menu and drooling. I think I'm going to order everything!!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

looks like you ARE committed to changing your body. i typically find quitters quit before the third week in. cheers that you are on day 23  :Smilie:

----------


## krugerr

Many thanks GGRat!

Attached a picture of my chicken supply!! Yummy!!

----------


## digsy1983

Hope it's not all.part of your refeed.lol

----------


## krugerr

> Hope it's not all.part of your refeed.lol


Haha. This is my chicken for the next few weeks.

----------


## krugerr

I'm back from TGI's. my god I haven't eaten a meal that big in a very long time!! 
Started with the sesame chicken, and had shrimp, chicken + fries for main. I had to order a pint of water to help lubricate the second half of my meal. 
Laid in bed now, feeling like a beached whale! 

Krugerr

----------


## krugerr

Day 24:

Feeling like I have a lot more energy today. Although I'm really hungry lol. Noticed that my 'small' jeans fit really well on the waist now. Tried on an XXL top at the weekend and it felt huge, so I had to pick up an XL! That's a good step too. 

Krugerr

----------


## digsy1983

Clothes are great for highlighting any change. Just a costly thing when you shrink and your clothes don't fit any more. I've had to put new holes in my belts so my jeans stay up. Lol 

The refeed's done its job then if you appetite is up.

----------


## krugerr

> Clothes are great for highlighting any change. Just a costly thing when you shrink and your clothes don't fit any more. I've had to put new holes in my belts so my jeans stay up. Lol
> 
> The refeed's done its job then if you appetite is up.


Tell me about it. I've NEVER had my belt on this low a setting before! Smaller jeans, and jumpers now, but my tshirts look better on my chest! 

Appetite is definitely up, Im eating chicken like its going outta fashion, nom!!

----------


## milky01623

> Day 24:
> 
> Feeling like I have a lot more energy today. Although I'm really hungry lol. Noticed that my 'small' jeans fit really well on the waist now. Tried on an XXL top at the weekend and it felt huge, so I had to pick up an XL! That's a good step too.
> 
> Krugerr


Dude I feel you lol
I've done all this and I still wear my belt on my work trousers as a reminder and to show people

Yesterday my wife did a charity clothes collection bag 75% were my old clothes including a pair if 40" waist golf trousers I bought in march this year wtf lol

----------


## krugerr

Just finished chest at the gym! It was a really good session. I tried something that I had read about before, but was reminded of today. And that's the technique of 4 second negative and 2 second contraction. I'll tell ya what, I've never tried it before but boy'o'boy you can feel that working. I was getting some funny looks because I was using much lighter weights than usual! I left my ego at the door though, so who cares!
Cardio, did 50 minutes on the bike at moderate tempo. I was aiming for 60, but my arse was so numb I had to stop! 

Krugerr

***milky, I know what you mean there brother. I was wearing 42" waist a few years ago. Recently it's been 38/40. I'm currently wearing a 36", but they're a little tight on the leg!  :Smilie:

----------


## krugerr

Day 25:

Waiting for my girlfriends laptop to be delivered. I really can't understand why they can't be more specific than a 9hour window! Well at least I have no excuse for not eating correctly!

Attached a some more pics. Any guesses at BF?

----------


## Back In Black

Tell your girlfriend to tidy her sh1t from the floor!  :Wink: 

Still in the 20's mate but definitely going down, keep going and get on an eliptical over a bike if you can!

----------


## krugerr

> Tell your girlfriend to tidy her sh1t from the floor! 
> 
> Still in the 20's mate but definitely going down, keep going and get on an eliptical over a bike if you can!


Haha, you know how girls are. She's a messy one. 
Thanks buddy, so you reckon the CrossTrainer over the bikes, is there a reason for that, or do they just burn more calories? 

Krugerr

----------


## Back In Black

Just that, they burn more calories. As does a treadmill. It is, of course, all relative. Assuming you work equally hard on each bit of kit.

----------


## krugerr

Thanks SteM. I'm gonna head over to the gym in an hour or so, hit up arms today and the CrossTrainer!

----------


## digsy1983

hey stem, where would you put a rowing machine compared to the elliptical trainer? 

Coming on Krugerr man! You'll have that beach body ready for the summer!!

----------


## krugerr

> hey stem, where would you put a rowing machine compared to the elliptical trainer?
> 
> Coming on Krugerr man! You'll have that beach body ready for the summer!!


Thanks buddy! I really appreciate the support! Fingers crossed, I'm not looking to be on the cover of FHM, but ~15% bf would be good, especially for my height and build. It'll make me look massive!

----------


## digsy1983

Ha. you say that now, i'll remind you when your aiming for 225lbs and 8% BF. 

My target when I decided to lose weight was 92kg (from 115kg) down to 87kg and still going, but aiming for loads more lbm when my BF get lower. It's an addictive slippery slope. :-)

----------


## krugerr

> Ha. you say that now, i'll remind you when your aiming for 225lbs and 8% BF.


Lol, thanks! I guess you're right, once I hit my goal, it'll only be replaced with another! Lol.

----------


## Back In Black

> hey stem, where would you put a rowing machine compared to the elliptical trainer?
> 
> Coming on Krugerr man! You'll have that beach body ready for the summer!!


Absolutely use it man. Do some intervals on it. Warm up, then 39 secs as hard as you can and rest completely for 30secs. Repeat 5-10 times then move on to another bit of kit or stay on and go moderate (if you can take the discomfort).

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Absolutely use it man. Do some intervals on it. Warm up, then 39 secs as hard as you can and rest completely for 30secs. Repeat 5-10 times then *move on to another bit of kit* or stay on and go moderate (if you can take the discomfort).


theres that english lingo ive been missing!  :Wink:  (hey buddy!  :Smilie: )

----------


## krugerr

> theres that english lingo ive been missing!  (hey buddy! )


Wagwan 405. (Slang just for you! Although I'm not sure if this is limited to the UK.)

----------


## krugerr

Day 26:

Real good back session, lifting 190kg today, a new PB for me!
Went to fill up my bottle and got caught by one of the gym instructors, spent 45minutes talking and then had no time for cardio. 

Just had a 4egg omelette and a tin of tuna! Yum!

----------


## digsy1983

190kg on dead lift? 

Anything useful come out of your gym talk? 
I tend not to mention much t the gym guys, all seen to know whats better for you to do, but every gym guy has a different view and they seem offended if you don't follow what they say. (Maybe just my gym)

----------


## krugerr

> 190kg on dead lift?
> 
> Anything useful come out of your gym talk?
> I tend not to mention much t the gym guys, all seen to know whats better for you to do, but every gym guy has a different view and they seem offended if you don't follow what they say. (Maybe just my gym)


Yup 190kg Deadlift. I did my usual of working up. 60kg, 100kg, 130kg and 160kg. But I thought I'd try for the 190kg! 
Nothing really. Just a chat, he said he wants to go bodybuilder next year, said there's a competition he's gonna enter etc.

----------


## krugerr

Day 27:

Stood at the train station, drinking my black coffee and that bloody bakery is taunting me again. Every day when I order my coffee, he offers me pastries and cookies and sweets and sandwiches... I'm sure he's trying to trick me!

Few hours of Uni then I'll head over to the gym for a cardio session. Think I'll do as SteM suggested and try the elliptical. 

Krugerr

----------


## MR-FQ320

^^*lol they smell even better when they're warm an your stomachs rumbling.

----------


## krugerr

Don't they just!! It takes every ounce of my willpower not to go and buy 6 bacon&cheese pastries!!

----------


## krugerr

Can't get over this craving for macaroni cheese! Just fed my son (he's 18months) and the baby meal tonight was Mac'n'cheese. I wanted to steal it from him! 
Mrs is stuffing down all the leftover sweets from Halloween and there is cheesecake in the fridge. Life is teasing me this week!

Used most of my carbs at lunch, so tonight is 2 chicken breasts, seasoned. Mmmm!

----------


## Back In Black

When is cheat meal? You live in Kent? Anywhere near a Cook? They do great macaroni cheese!

----------


## krugerr

> When is cheat meal? You live in Kent? Anywhere near a Cook? They do great macaroni cheese!


Cheat day is Monday or Tuesday! I'm in Hampshire buddy. Basingstoke doesn't have anywhere I know of for real good Macaroni cheese. Might have to make my own. 
'A cook' - is that a restaurant or a chain?

----------


## Back In Black

Ah, why did I think Kent? Cook sells upmarket frozen ready meals. Depends where in Hampshire you are as to whether or not you live near one. Definitely one in Romsey.

----------


## --->>405<<---

stem whatcha been doing man?

----------


## Back In Black

> stem whatcha been doing man?


Oh you know, this and that. Not much. Why aren't you in your own thread?

----------


## digsy1983

> Oh you know, this and that. Not much. Why aren't you in your own thread?


Stem, Speaking of threads, has yours run its course or u just having a little break??

----------


## Back In Black

I am pretty much without goal! I have surgery in 4 weeks time an wont be able to lift for about 6 weeks after that. I'll keep updating it here and there. At best I am maintaining/recomping!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Can't get over this craving for macaroni cheese! Just fed my son (he's 18months) and the baby meal tonight was Mac'n'cheese. I wanted to steal it from him! 
> Mrs is stuffing down all the leftover sweets from Halloween and there is cheesecake in the fridge. Life is teasing me this week!
> 
> Used most of my carbs at lunch, so tonight is 2 chicken breasts, seasoned. Mmmm!


so u like the carbs too??? good for you for not stealing food from a baby  :Smilie:

----------


## krugerr

> so u like the carbs too??? good for you for not stealing food from a baby


I love the carbs! I had jerk chicken and salad for my dinner. Was pretty stuffed!!




> Ah, why did I think Kent? Cook sells upmarket frozen ready meals. Depends where in Hampshire you are as to whether or not you live near one. Definitely one in Romsey.


I'll take a look online to see if I can find one! Thanks buddy!

----------


## digsy1983

How did your fair on the elliptical?

----------


## krugerr

Day 28:

Had to wait in for another delivery this morning. So had 4 egg omelette and a protein shake for lunch. 
Hit the gym and smashed arms, great pump using a mix of volume and TUT. Then 50 mins on the elliptical. 600kcal burned. **** me did I get a sweat on. I trained in thick jogging bottoms, vest and a hoody. I could almost wring my hoody out, it was that wet!!

Digsy - see above. I'm actually loving the elliptical. First ~10 mins were hardest whilst my legs warmed up. Next 40mins was cake!

----------


## krugerr

Day 29:

Work was looooooooong. Nice doms in my arms today. Had omelette for brekky. Ribs for lunch and I'm about to have chicken for dinner. Yum!

No training today.

----------


## krugerr

Day 30:

It's been a month! I've dropped a jean size. Getting told regularly I look slimmer. And got my best ever Deadlift. Busy busy busy!!

Making a big ass chicken curry today, which I'll leave cooking until tonight. Breakfast is still an hour away, but 4-egg omelette is going to be amazing!

Any suggestions for spicing up omelettes? I've cut cheese/milk out. So I've typically been throwing a can of tuna into it. But it's a little dry sometimes! 

No training today either. Tomorrow is chest day and the elliptical!

----------


## digsy1983

I use to add a little cinnamon and thyme to my omelets, but don't anymore. If I have them these days I mix in oxo, lamb or vegetable. Gives a bit of depth to the flavour. I've found I use oxo on veg aswel just to juzz it up a little. 

Good job on a month well spent buddy!!

----------


## krugerr

> I use to add a little cinnamon and thyme to my omelets, but don't anymore. If I have them these days I mix in oxo, lamb or vegetable. Gives a bit of depth to the flavour. I've found I use oxo on veg aswel just to juzz it up a little.
> 
> Good job on a month well spent buddy!!


Oxo cubes, why didnt I think of that! Good shout there buddy. 

Thank you for the support this month, I'm pretty sure without keeping this log, or feedback and support from the people helping in this thread, I probably would of got waylaid and fallen off the wagon.

----------


## krugerr

Day 31:

Couple hours left of Uni then home and the gym!! 
Really looking forward to chest and cardio today! 
Let myself slip and I treated myself to a PeanutButter Cup!

----------


## digsy1983

> Day 31:
> 
> Couple hours left of Uni then home and the gym!! 
> Really looking forward to chest and cardio today! 
> *Let myself slip and I treated myself to a PeanutButter Cup*!


OH NO!!! its been 1 month and he's starting to slip. lol.

----------


## MR-FQ320

Wtf is a peanut butter cup ? I'm thinking it has peanut butter in it , so at least it has some valuable macros in it.

----------


## krugerr

> OH NO!!! its been 1 month and he's starting to slip. lol.


No no! Today was a cheat day. I felt bad after the PB cup so I moved my cheatday forward by 1 day. I'll just delay next cheat day by an extra day. How many times can I use 'day' in a paragraph?!?

I got back from the gym and the mrs had bought cake and heated up the left overs from the curry I made. Figured I'd keep her sweet and have it. I managed 30mjns cardio after a good chest session. So all in all it's been good. I'm noticing fat loss on my chest, there is clearly a 'dip' forming between my 'pecs'. It used to kinda run flat as I had fat there. The bad gym scales put me at ~244lbs and that was this evening. I'll jump on the proper scales again next week to see how they rate me.

----------


## krugerr

> Wtf is a peanut butter cup ? I'm thinking it has peanut butter in it , so at least it has some valuable macros in it.


Are you serious? What's your address, I'm sending you a box!  :Wink:

----------


## MR-FQ320

Mmmmm yummy.

----------


## krugerr

> Mmmmm yummy.


You have no idea. These aren't overly great. Home made ones with crunchy peanut butter are better. Or better yet, ice cream with scoops of PB and chocolate sauce. *runs to kitchen*

----------


## krugerr

Day 32:

Making the decision to just provide weekly updates from herein, to include weight, body fat, pictures and measurements. 
Body fat is self measured using calipers,I will only be including the mm from stomach. I will bi-weekly try and get a professional calipers done. 
I shall include this info later for this week. 
Diet is to be staying the same as previous. 
Training is staying the same, including the 45-60mins cardio 4x a week. 

This is now week zero. 


Weight: 244lbs (evening weight)
Stomach BF%: 14mm. 

Chest: 46" +1/8
Waist: 42" +1/
Arms: 17"
Thigh: 27" +2/8

Pictures:

----------


## MR-FQ320

OK dude, it's your log so do as you please, if I were you Iwould use this thread to ask any questions or ponder over any thoughts you may have, you have a fair few decent guys following you so there's no much point in opening a new thread for each one. In time you may want to continue this thread full time if you eventually run an AAS cycle.

----------


## krugerr

> OK dude, it's your log so do as you please, if I were you Iwould use this thread to ask any questions or ponder over any thoughts you may have, you have a fair few decent guys following you so there's no much point in opening a new thread for each one. In time you may want to continue this thread full time if you eventually run an AAS cycle.


That's the plan! I'm going to run a cutting course @15%. I'm just going to reduce my updates, I'm sure you're all bored of daily updates that don't really include a lot. Instead I'll just do a weekly update that includes a chunk of data and changes. 
I'll include questions tho. I'm glad I have some good followers though, it's making this whole process easier!

----------


## krugerr

Added pictures to week: 0 

Went to the doctors this morning to get a blood panel done, so that's all booked in for the 20th. I should get results on 25th. Definitely feel and look slimmer. Been looking at the Freeze lipo and laser lipo for after Xmas. If I get down to 15%bf I'm going to treat myself and kill some fat cells. 

As from my understanding, once fat cells are made, they can be emptied, but not killed? However these lipo treatments kill the fat cell so you can lose more of that layer.

----------


## MR-FQ320

Are you thinking about lipo ? What you say is correct, I have a stubborn bit of fat around my lower abs that will just not budge, well a three grand trip to the surgeon might sort it, haha, I wouldn't tell anybody though in case they called me a girl.

----------


## krugerr

It's not proper liposuction. It's a non invasive version. You turn up, have a 30min session where you just wear this belt, then leave. Proper liposuction is expensive as hell.

----------


## MR-FQ320

How much does that cost ? 


Is it permanent ?

----------


## Back In Black

But you will need several sessions!

You are right, you can't kill fat cells. Just shrink them or remove via proper lipo! You can, on the other hand, grow new fat cells if you fill the current ones up too much!

----------


## krugerr

As stem said, you do need several sessions. 

It's £50/session at my local gym. So I was curious about whether its just a gimmick for the average joe that doesn't really fancy dieting. Or if its the real deal and worth a look. 

If I continued to diet tho, my body wouldn't fill up the remaining fat cells, and so it wouldn't make more. Would it just mean I would carry fat in obscure places, until those cells were full?

----------


## MR-FQ320

Pass on all the above. Save the money and spend it on food and steroids lol

----------


## krugerr

How do I like the above comment???

----------


## digsy1983

Week zero? Interesting approach! New fresh determination for a new stage. 

Glad you're noticing and feeling.the changes that's apparent in your pics!

----------


## MR-FQ320

> Week zero? Interesting approach! New fresh determination for a new stage.
> 
> Glad you're noticing and feeling.the changes that's apparent in your pics!


I liked the week zero too, feet on the ground and all that, carry on krugerr

----------


## krugerr

> Week zero? Interesting approach! New fresh determination for a new stage.
> 
> Glad you're noticing and feeling.the changes that's apparent in your pics!


Exactly, this first month is done. I know now on a daily basis roughly what I'm eating without having to think about it. I am still using MyFitnessPal though. But Im making the right meal choices instinctively  :Smilie: 
The new stage is hitting that damn 15% bf! I felt that daily updates were no longer needed  :Smilie: 

Thanks Digsy!!

----------


## krugerr

Arms are feeling bigger, can see a little peak now on them, which I'll attribute to the loss of bodyfat!
Had a really intense arm session yesterday, it felt like my biceps were going to burst!!!

----------


## krugerr

Was absolutely dropping with sweat after today's cardio! Felt good, I'm almost looking forward to the cardio more than my workouts now! 

I have started a thread regarding a cutting course starting in January.

----------


## digsy1983

good work on ya new thread man! seems youve been doing some research!! 

ill be following ya for some tips.

----------


## krugerr

> good work on ya new thread man! seems youve been doing some research!!
> 
> ill be following ya for some tips.


Many thanks buddy! I've been doing a fair amount, I'm a long way from considering myself a knowledgable person. There is just so much to learn! I haven't even begun to look at some compounds! 
The cutting course in Jan is almost 8 weeks away, that's loads of time to do more research and continue with this natural cut !  :Smilie:

----------


## krugerr

Week 1: (Day 39)

Had an OK week, hot all my targets for training. Cardio this week was great, im really getting into the Elliptical! My heart-rate tends to stick around the 155-165 range for the 45-60mins. I know that with my current bodyfat that is ok, but will I need to adjust this eventually to stop muscle wastage and focus on fat-burning at 135bmp? Or is that just pseudo science that fitness freaks try to impose on us?
I noticed my biceps are starting to get a little peak on them now, I know its only little, but I've never had one before! Ive always just had 'massy' arms!
I felt really really drained on saturday night, so Sunday I ate without restriction, I didnt blow out and eat shit, I just ate what my body craved, in this case, I had glass of fizzy drink, roast dinner and grazed over fruit and some cake. I didnt eat excessively, although I didnt count calories either. My plate was loaded with pork, lamb, chicken, roast potatoes and veggies, I just ate what my body told me it needed. Felt 110% yesterday, and last night my dumbell chest press went up 2.5kg a side for a full set, must of just replenished all those drained stores!

Dropped another 2lbs this week. So I'd say I am still doing pretty good. Unfortunately my BF calipers snapped, bloody peice of sh!t  :Wink:  I can however say that I had to put a new hole in my belt for work at the weekend, and my trousers were way too big... time to drop another jean size!  :Big Grin: 




Weight: 242lbs (evening weight)
Stomach BF%: 14mm. 

Chest: 46" +2/8
Waist: 42" +2/8
Arms: 17"
Thigh: 27" +2/8

Pictures:

----------


## digsy1983

yeah man, everydays a skool day! especially on this site aswell. i done GCSE physicall eduation at school, and thought i knew a bit about diets n what not, until i found this site. 

see the cadio is doing its job from ya knew pics! 

did ya get sorted with ya blood work?

----------


## krugerr

Everyday is a school day - I havent heard that in a long time. It was one of my favourite sayings when I was in the Royal Navy lol. I cant seem to notice a difference when I look in the mirror or the pictures, but other people are telling me I'm slimmer, the scales tell me, and my trousers are definitely telling me!

Bloodwork is scheduled for next tuesday. I'll have the results for the week after. My libido is starting to pick back up again, so maybe whatever it was is self rectified, but my other symptoms are still kinda lurking, so we shall see, maybe its in my head, maybe I'm running on low Test!

----------


## digsy1983

Ha, told ya it would be hard for you to notice! Overly critical of yourself is definitely a human trate, probably a good one tho for natural progression, but not good for the ego! 

I'm not implying you're vain here, but take a week off from looking in the mirror! I went about 28 years checking the mirror about twice in my life, now Im like a budgie! Every time I walk past I'm checking for some sign of progress, no change tho! 
If the number on the scales is.going down and people are commenting on you losing weight, or looking slimmer then take that as gospel that things are changing!

----------


## krugerr

Haha!! I have definitely become vain, I'm always checking myself out now! Lol. I do take the conpliments though!

----------


## krugerr

Was deadlifting yesterday, and felt something pop in my ribs, right at the back next to my spine. 
It's now really painful to turn to my right, arch my back, or take really deep breaths. Could it be muscular, or cartilage, or worse?

----------


## Back In Black

If it was worse you probably wouldn't be able to move at all! Cartilage is between bones so unless you can pinpoint it you should assume its muscular and either an intercostal or your erector spinal. Heavy weight and rounded back?

Tell me you've been icing it?!

----------


## krugerr

No it was on one of medium weight sets. Warmed up fully, I was pyramiding up, 160kg, 1st rep and it 'popped'. I can normally go up to 180/190kg. 

Well I'm glad you said I wouldn't be able to move if it was real bad. I had a long old soak in a hot bath last night. But I haven't iced it. In 4 years this is my first injury. I'll start icing it!

----------


## digsy1983

unlucky man! rest and ice will be your new best friend for a few days. 

im not much of a fan of dead's, well at least not while im cutting! too much to go wrong, espcially with my form and knees of toffee! 

fingers crossed for a quick heal!!

----------


## krugerr

Thanks brother! I really love deads, my favourite exercise. This is just my bloody luck though. I'll rest up. I'm off the gym til Monday.

----------


## Back In Black

I've not heat. And just because it wasn't your heavy set doesn't mean you won't get injured if your form isn't spot on. Had anybody ever checked your technique? Not saying there is anything wrong with it must most people deadlift really badly.

----------


## Back In Black

That should say ice not I've!

----------


## krugerr

Yea I've had my form checked a few times, I typically have my training partner watch my form on my heavier sets. Then if my form drops, I drop the weight. 

I'll use ice buddy, thanks for the advice  :Smilie:

----------


## krugerr

Doing an 18hour shift today in Andover! Christmas lights time! I foresee tiredness!

Back is still painful  :Frown:

----------


## krugerr

Green Tea -- I've seen so e guys drinking it in bulk. Do you just buy it from the supermarket? Or buy it in bulk from health shops/online. 
The green-tea bags in my local supermarket aren't very cost effective if I'm planning to drink a lot of it.

----------


## Back In Black

You need to drink a lot! Personally I dislike the taste but don't mind drinking white tea. You could do what I do though and buy it in tablet form. 1 tablet is worth about 5 cups worth they are 1000mg each and quite cost effective!

----------


## krugerr

> You need to drink a lot! Personally I dislike the taste but don't mind drinking white tea. You could do what I do though and buy it in tablet form. 1 tablet is worth about 5 cups worth they are 1000mg each and quite cost effective!


Noted! I shall take a look online then. Thanks brother! Anything I can stack alongside my New Years course will be awesome  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

If you are putting an order in mine come from myprotein. I take green tea with 200mg caffeine pre fasted cardio.

----------


## krugerr

Yea I use their caffeine tablets. I did have their "Mega Green Tea Extract" - but I can't remember the doses in it. If you're using it tho, they can't be too bad! What sort of daily dose do you use? Some of the guys drink a couple litres, so that's like 15,000mg/day??

----------


## Back In Black

I'm not very good at remembering to take supplements which is one reason why I don't anymore really. 3x per day with your caffeine about 40 mins before fasted cardio and 30 mins before food is about right.

Tea bags are MUCH weaker than tablets and I'm yet to see any evidence that they are less effective than drinking it. Caffeine tablets are proven to be more effective at fat mobilisation than drinking coffee though.

----------


## krugerr

I love you SteM. You're like a walking wealth of information !

I use Caffeine tabs @200mg and black coffee throughout the day. I'll lookup the GreenTea, it's much easier to pop a couple tablets than drink an Additional litre of liquid.

----------


## Back In Black

Sound confident enough and most people will believe what you say, true or not!

Also, it used to be my job!!!

----------


## krugerr

> Sound confident enough and most people will believe what you say, true or not!
> 
> Also, it used to be my job!!!


You used to be a walking information point? Lol

----------


## Back In Black

> You used to be a walking information point? Lol


Pretty much. PT and nutritionist!

----------


## digsy1983

Green tea and water are he only things I drink these day! Not too sure of the benefit gain from drinking green tea, don't think I've gained much in the way of thermogenic benefit, but there are alot of other health benefits from it and ive grown to like it so I'm happy drinking it. 
Didn't know about the green tea tablets tho!

----------


## Back In Black

It's thermogenic effects, as with caffeine, are limited. Taken over a long period there are benefits in thermogenesis and, as both are really cheap, I see little reason to not incorporate them in my pre cardio regime.

Green tea is great for antioxidants though and that is the main reason it's in my, nowadays limited, arsenal!!

----------


## krugerr

Thanks for the feedback SteM and Digsy! I'll be putting in an order on Monday for some more vitamins and now, GreenTea  :Wink:  

Back is feeling much better. I'm still going to hold off training til Monday, and I have bloodtest Tuesday morning. I'll probably go real light with back onWednesday, no more than 120kg or something for a few 12-15 working sets.

----------


## Back In Black

Don't be a pvssy. Get some 20 rep work in your squats and deads. You'll thank me for it. One day. Probably!!!!

----------


## krugerr

> Don't be a pvssy. Get some 20 rep work in your squats and deads. You'll thank me for it. One day. Probably!!!!


Yessir! I've never worked at the 15+ rep ranges before to be honest. I'm feeling a lighter week with a higher set/rep count. If the SteMeister says 20reps, that's what it shall be!

----------


## Back In Black

If you've not done 20 rep work for squats or deads you've never trained your legs or your grip!

----------


## krugerr

Haha! My grip is good, I can pull 200kg with straps.

----------


## Back In Black

> Haha! My grip is good, I can pull 200kg with straps.


Mate, if you said without straps I would agree your grip is good :Wink:

----------


## krugerr

/without/

I do a 190kg raw Deadlift and maybe 210kg on the rack lifts raw. I have pretty good grip strength. I'm not sure my girlfriend appreciates the calloused hands though!

----------


## Back In Black

Nah, unappreciative things they are sometimes!

----------


## krugerr

I know. Women!  :Wink:

----------


## GirlyGymRat

i can hear y'all..LOL  :Wink: 




> I know. Women!





> Nah, unappreciative things they are sometimes!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

wished i hadn't bought all those green tea bags last week! i know alot of ppl drink green tea, but not so many that swollow it! thx for the info!! good stuff. 

BTW Krueger - you stick with this cuz you are doing great!

special note to SteM - you are one the few PT that really know your stuff! Hats off to you! I am so glad you are on this forum  :Smilie: 




> Green tea and water are he only things I drink these day! Not too sure of the benefit gain from drinking green tea, don't think I've gained much in the way of thermogenic benefit, but there are alot of other health benefits from it and ive grown to like it so I'm happy drinking it. 
> Didn't know about the green tea tablets tho!





> It's thermogenic effects, as with caffeine, are limited. Taken over a long period there are benefits in thermogenesis and, as both are really cheap, I see little reason to not incorporate them in my pre cardio regime.
> 
> Green tea is great for antioxidants though and that is the main reason it's in my, nowadays limited, arsenal!!





> Thanks for the feedback SteM and Digsy! I'll be putting in an order on Monday for some more vitamins and now, GreenTea  
> 
> Back is feeling much better. I'm still going to hold off training til Monday, and I have bloodtest Tuesday morning. I'll probably go real light with back onWednesday, no more than 120kg or something for a few 12-15 working sets.

----------


## LiL P

Good job so far seems like your right on track with the weight loss if you haven't ordered your green tea already i suggest you look into Lcarnitine+green Tea I have some capsules with 200mg of Lcarnitine which helps promote the use of fate for energy and 50mg of green tea for that thermogenic metabolism booster saying that i also have 315mg green tea caps im gonna stack id say so idk maybe just look into getting Lcarnitine with your green tea :P Anyway i keep checking in.

LiL P

----------


## krugerr

Thanks GGR!! 


Thanks L-P, I'll take a little browse at it. I've spent most of today's reading about the HIT training, and apparently my version of HIT isn't really intense lol. I'm still dubious about some bits... Like where they claim he gained 65lbs if muscle in 4 weeks. Using only 6 training sessions.
And arm growth of 7/8inch after one gym session for Franco. But the overall idea makes sense.

----------


## digsy1983

Any good progress with your back? 

What book you been.reading?

----------


## krugerr

"The new High Intensity Training Book"


It's not a bad read. My back is feeling back to normal now, thank god. I have my bloodtest in the morning.

----------


## krugerr

Just had my blood taken. I should get the results on Friday. They had several bullet points of things to check for. This was what was displayed on the screen on my file. I assume this is everything I needed to get checked! 

* Full Blood Count
* Blood Sugar Levels
* Thyroid Function
* Erectile Disfunction
* Liver Enzyme Levels

----------


## digsy1983

i'll have to give it a read! never really boavd with the cardio theory stuff.

oh well, fingers crossed for ya buddy! hope all's well than ends well!

----------


## krugerr

Ellington Darden - is the author of that book. It's a good read. It's certainly made me more knowledgable about general training to failure. I don't think I could do the HIT regime it suggests. But I can apply the HIT principles, now I understand them, to the Dorian Yates workouts and I then have a better understanding of my workout. Which can only be a good thing!! 

Yea me too, I also had a full lung exam today. I was just diagnosed with Asthma and given an inhaler! /Doh/

----------


## digsy1983

ive been following dorain yates's training when ive had chance for the last couple of weeks. only get 2 days out of 7 to really puch myself in the gym with the diet im doing. you can really feel the strain in the mucles with the higher intensity stuff! i was doing 1 arm tricep pull downs and my legs were shaking madly! was hard not to laugh!!

bad news on the asthma!! a couple of my mates have asthma and it doesnt really affect them too much. apart from the odd puffer break!! lol

----------


## krugerr

Yea I tried my best to do a HIT workout today like Ellington Darden suggested, 8 different exercises, 1 set per exercise to complete failure. On the 8th and final exercise I was gased. I laid on the floor for 10mins trying to breath. My total workout time was 22mins. I felt shaky and my heartrate was through the roof. Without a training partner though its impossible to reach complete failure. 

Well I have survived this long without an inhaler. I've been doing my cardio, so I don't suffer. Doctor just said that my stats had improved 10% by using the inhaler, so to keep using it when I do exercise. I figure 10% improvement anywhere has to be a good thing!

----------


## krugerr

Week 2: (Day 46)

Last week I injured my back deadlifting, so I took the rest of the week out. I kept to my diet, but was unable to even do cardio, so I've felt a little shit these last few days! 
Dropped another 2lbs this week though, even after that, so thats good news! Im bored of my current training method, I havent been seeing the gains in strength that I would like, and I have been using the same training method for a few weeks before this log, I have decided to shake it up a little. I read the Carb Back Loading book this week, if you havent checked this out yet, it has some interesting ideas about dieting. I also read 'The New High Intensity Training' by Ellington Darden, who if you dont know, worked with Arthur Jones (Nautilus) and MikeMentzer back in the day. Its interesting and has sparked a new motivation to go back at it HARD! With another little boost from Marcus300's thread with the Dorian Yates 'Blood&Guts' - Im ready to shoot back at it!

Visually I feel that my chest is bigger, although it measured the same this week, so thats probably due to some fat loss in the mid-chest area and on my ribcage/belly. I had several people I havent seen in a while in shock this weekend when they spotted me at work, they couldnt believe how much better I looked. So this was a real nice confidence boost!




Weight: 240lbs [2lbs lost]
Stomach BF%: 12mm. [2mm reduction, it is a little hard to tell with these crappy calipers]

Chest: 46" +2/8
Waist: 42" +2/8
Arms: 17"
Thigh: 27" +2/8

Pictures:

----------


## MR-FQ320

Post a link to your other gear cutting thread bro.

----------


## krugerr

Here we are buddy! http://forums.steroid .com/showthread.php?517907-Krugerr-s-Experimental-Cut&highlight=#.UKzMVodLPGA

I woulda put links in my signature... but y'know, I'm not a staff member!

----------


## digsy1983

2lbs lost and out of action for best part of a week. good results man! definite progree in the pics!

p.s, i think you look more like robin  :LOL:

----------


## krugerr

Thanks buddy!  :Wink: 

I think I look more like BANE than gay robin... He was such a shut character!

----------


## bp2000

> Everyday is a school day - I havent heard that in a long time. It was one of my favourite sayings when I was in the Royal Navy lol. I cant seem to notice a difference when I look in the mirror or the pictures, but other people are telling me I'm slimmer, the scales tell me, and my trousers are definitely telling me!
> 
> Bloodwork is scheduled for next tuesday. I'll have the results for the week after. My libido is starting to pick back up again, so maybe whatever it was is self rectified, but my other symptoms are still kinda lurking, so we shall see, maybe its in my head, maybe I'm running on low Test!


If you restrict your calories too much for too long your body will shutdown on you including testosterone . So make sure as you cut down every 3 or 4 day's replenish your glycogen stores just to make sure your body doesn't go into starvation mode. Testosterone is also produced by cholesteral so you need to keep your fats at minimum 23% or so if cutting natty. Get some eggs in and eat a steak

Keep up the good work. You can see your abs now! I knew there were under there.

----------


## krugerr

Thanks bp2000 - I tend to eat 30 whole eggs a week, and my fats are around 65-70g a day. I'm referring every 7-10 days as a general rule of thumb. But I'm using my bodies urges/cravings as a guide. If I feel I need a refeed after 5 days, so be it etc. 
The first month was very strict. Now I know what a healthier diet looks like, I'm able to judge how my body is feeling much better, and adjust daily as I feel. I'm still dropping 2lbs a week so it's working. In sticking to the IF, but on cheat days I'll drop it and eat regardless of time. I felt like this gives me more opportunity to get those goodies in!!

----------


## krugerr

Doctor gave me the Testosterone results today. Unfortunately because it isnt a private clinic, he wouldnt give me the full results. So I am not really sure if this is any use to you guys at all. He told me it was quite low, he's booked me another bloodtest in December. He was also talking about the possible use of Testosterone Gels. Ive posted this up in the Bloodwork section for proper feedback, I just felt it had a place in this thread too. Could it be as BP2000 said, my diet has restricted my Test levels?

Testosterone - 7.8 nmol/L (normal range is 10-25)
Free Testosterone - 208 ng/dl (Normal range 300-950)

----------


## Back In Black

That's lower than mine and I'm 41 and just started TRT.

Did he give you thyroid, prostate, E2 results? If they didn't do them or you can't get them you're gonna need to visit a TRT clinic and get a full panel done!

----------


## digsy1983

You've done 3 cycles of AAS previous havent you? Could you have suppressed your natural test through this? 

I wouldn't of thought your diet could have lowered ya test that low, as you said you've done refeeds fairly often and kept fats medium range. (not that I know for fact, just assuming really)

----------


## digsy1983

You've done 3 cycles of AAS previous havent you? Could you have suppressed your natural test through this? 

I wouldn't of thought your diet could have lowered ya test that low, as you said you've done refeeds fairly often and kept fats medium range. (not that I know for fact, just assuming really)

----------


## krugerr

> That's lower than mine and I'm 41 and just started TRT.
> 
> Did he give you thyroid, prostate, E2 results? If they didn't do them or you can't get them you're gonna need to visit a TRT clinic and get a full panel done!


He has them, but I didnt get to see the results, I could try contacting him for them. See if I can just get a nurse to tell me over the phone. Its pretty damn low though for a 23 year old. Im 24 in Feb!





> You've done 3 cycles of AAS previous havent you? Could you have suppressed your natural test through this? 
> 
> I wouldn't of thought your diet could have lowered ya test that low, as you said you've done refeeds fairly often and kept fats medium range. (not that I know for fact, just assuming really)


 I have done two courses before, and yes, i ****ed up PCT on those because my 'supplier' at the time was certain that HCG was a sufficient PCT protocol... I wish I had done my bloody research before hand. At the time he was a close friend, so when he told me how to do it, I belived what he was telling me. Foolish me.

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## Back In Black

Mate, get those figures and get in the TRT forum and see if a restart is an option.

And please mothball your next planned cycle. tRT is no easy choice and is for life and unlikely you will get it done to perky on the NHS.

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## krugerr

Just called them, the nurse wouldnt tell me specific values over the phone, but says she'll send the whole thing to me in a letter. The TRT guys cant really help me without a full blood panel? I cant afford one of those privately,  :Frown:

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## Back In Black

You can ask but I suspect they'll need your estrogen value at least.

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## krugerr

Righto, thanks buddy!

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## digsy1983

sorry bout the news pal! your in the right forum tho to get it sorted tho!!

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## krugerr

Yep, just spotted a great post in my bloodwork from HRTstudent.

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## krugerr

Week 3: (day 53)

Back in the gym in full swing, been reading a lot on HIT workouts. Ellington Darden and Mike Mentzer books. Very interesting concepts and ideas. I've started a logbook to record my progress with strength. I've been applying so e concepts to the Dorian Yates workouts. Weight was up by 1lb yesterday. But the instructor told me a bunch of students were ****ing around on it the other day, so it might be broken. I'm going to invest in an electronic scale for home. Cardio is going well still, diet still on track. 

I'll post pictures, stats etc later as Im currently at University!  :Wink:

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## krugerr

Week 4: (Day 63)

Sorry for my lack of activity this last week or so - I had a little problem with the Mrs. Spent last week in the doghouse, I have had to be on my best behaviour this week, so no gym time and I have been cooking/cleaning like a goddess. Diet has been in check though. Im unsure of my weight this week, I think I have dropped another lb or so, jeans are becomming ridiculously loose now! I had a large chunk of my tattoo done yesterday.


Weight: 240lbs 
Stomach BF%: 12mm. 

Chest: 46" +2/8
Waist: 42" +2/8
Arms: 17"
Thigh: 27" +2/8

Pictures:

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## digsy1983

Your absence has been noted. 50 push up and 50 star jumps for your penance. Haha

This bodybuilding lark would be alot easier if life didn't keep getting in the way. 

Check out stems new title. We may have to call him lord from now.  :Smilie:

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## Back In Black

> Your absence has been noted. 50 push up and 50 star jumps for your penance. Haha
> 
> This bodybuilding lark would be alot easier if life didn't keep getting in the way. 
> 
> Check out stems new title. We may have to call him lord from now.


For "life" read women! Hope you haven't been a VERY naughty boy Krugerr?!

Lord? Funnily enough i used to work with a bunch of Geordies who used to call me that in view of my apparent 'posh' ( non Geordie) north east accent!!!!

Krugerr, weight loss looks like it is continuing and that looks like its going to be a beastly tattoo. I'm expecting close ups as it progresses too!

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## krugerr

> Your absence has been noted. 50 push up and 50 star jumps for your penance. Haha
> 
> This bodybuilding lark would be alot easier if life didn't keep getting in the way.
> 
> Check out stems new title. We may have to call him lord from now.


Yessir! Pressups and star jumps complete!
I noticed Master SteMs new title!  :Wink: 




> For "life" read women! Hope you haven't been a VERY naughty boy Krugerr?!
> 
> Lord? Funnily enough i used to work with a bunch of Geordies who used to call me that in view of my apparent 'posh' ( non Geordie) north east accent!!!!
> 
> Krugerr, weight loss looks like it is continuing and that looks like its going to be a beastly tattoo. I'm expecting close ups as it progresses too!


I wasn't /THAT/ bad... I just said something foolish whilst going down on her. I won't be doing that again! Lol!
I forget you're a funny northerner SteM, I can't stand the Geordie accent, unless its on a filthy slutty girl!  :Wink: 

Thanks, weightless feels good - I've posted some pics in the Tattoo thread. I'll post up more during my next sitting. 
Yesterday was a 7 hour sitting!

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## krugerr

Week 5: (Day 67)

Managed only 1 gym session this week, been busy as hell with my last university reports before xmas. Todays gym has had to be cancelled as I have to go to the police station... some prick is trying to get me charged with assault. Diet is still going well, looked at myself in the mirror after my shower earlier and really noticed a difference. My jumper for work looked like it was a size too big on saturday... I only just bought the bastard thing! Oh well, back shopping after xmas for smaller clothes!  :Wink: 


Weight: 238lbs (2lb loss)
Stomach BF%: 12mm. 

Chest: 46" +2/8
Waist: 42" +2/8
Arms: 17"
Thigh: 27" +2/8

Pictures:

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## MR-FQ320

Don't worry about the clothes man, you will want to add muscle again and will fit them again

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## krugerr

Cheers buddy, I hadn't thought of that!  :Wink:

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## digsy1983

comin on man! keep it up.

is lado a prick for going to the police after u actually assulted him, or a prick for falsely accusing you?? eitherway, you're a big meanie  :Smilie:

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## krugerr

> comin on man! keep it up.
> 
> is lado a prick for going to the police after u actually assulted him, or a prick for falsely accusing you?? eitherway, you're a big meanie


Thanks Digsy. I'm still getting compliments, and this diet doesn't feel like a diet anymore. It's my lifestyle. I only eat midday-8pm. With the occasional exception where required. 

Well having viewed the CCTV, it's a bullshit claim. I thought it was a different incident. Turns out its just done guy I restrained outside the club. No biggie, the CCTV shows him being a dick and me not using excessive force.

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## GirlyGymRat

Dropping in to see how well you r doing! Keep it on!!!

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## krugerr

Thanks GGR!

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## digsy1983

So are you a bouncer? Or just an extremely helpful drunk?? Lol

I know what ya mean about the diet becoming a lifestyle. I still get sarkie comments from the guys at work about some of my food choices, but nothing like ignorance to flavour a healthy meal!

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## Back In Black

Guys, I'm glad it's now part of your lifestyle. It makes the long haul so much easier when you see it that way.

Personally, I've had a white carb, sugar and fat fest since my op 2 weeks ago. Less than 5lbs gained though. It's too easy to fall off the wagon at times and when you do, just flick through a few threads on here and you feel even more guilty!

Krugerr, did you find that shop with the macaroni cheese I mentioned?

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## krugerr

> So are you a bouncer? Or just an extremely helpful drunk?? Lol


I'm a bouncer! Fvcking love my job  :Wink: 




> Guys, I'm glad it's now part of your lifestyle. It makes the long haul so much easier when you see it that way.
> 
> Personally, I've had a white carb, sugar and fat fest since my op 2 weeks ago. Less than 5lbs gained though. It's too easy to fall off the wagon at times and when you do, just flick through a few threads on here and you feel even more guilty!
> 
> Krugerr, did you find that shop with the macaroni cheese I mentioned?


I never got around to looking for it SteM. It's on my list of foods to acquire!  :Wink:  The diets transition from a 'diet' to a 'lifestyle' was subtle. I'm not even sure when it happened. I just noticed this week that I don't have to think about it, or apply effort. The restraints of the 'diet' are just something I automatically do now. Which makes me happy. Previous diets have been extreme effort and I get bored I'd them before I achieve the goals!

How is your recovery going? I hope well!

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## Back In Black

> How is your recovery going? I hope well!


I'm not very good at sitting round doing nothing so it's been a tough 2 weeks and I know I've done too much even doing the housework. Did some low intensity cardio sat on a bike for 30 mins today, first time since the op. Won't lift for at least another 2 weeks. And my attractive surgical compression vest that I have to wear 24/7 means I am sleeping badly. Other than that, it's all good!!!

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## krugerr

> I'm not very good at sitting round doing nothing so it's been a tough 2 weeks and I know I've done too much even doing the housework. Did some low intensity cardio sat on a bike for 30 mins today, first time since the op. Won't lift for at least another 2 weeks. And my attractive surgical compression vest that I have to wear 24/7 means I am sleeping badly. Other than that, it's all good!!!


I am quite content to sit around. I have so many TV series' to catch up on! 
I bet you're itching to get back on the weights. 
I've not heard of surgical compression vests before. Bet that's a ****er!

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## Back In Black

Mate go on the macom website, they have some amazing garments for post 'cosmetic' surgery, particularly after face lifts and chin lipo!

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## krugerr

Hah, I'll check it out!

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## krugerr

Week 6: (Day 65)

Hurting like a mutha****a this week, this is the first week since i popped that rib that I have trained properly, got Chest tomorrow and Legs friday. Scales put me slightly up on weight, but due to my 'holiday diet' thats pretty good, a couple times this last week the Mrs has ordered take-out without asking me first... of course, I didnt complain once it arrived! Really looking forward to getting Xmas out of the way so I can really focus again on diet/training without distraction... I really did pick the wrong time of year for a cut!  :Wink:  Im still sticking to the IF principles, my macros are off, although I am still typically around 2500-2700cals a day. 

SteM - I looked at that Macom website... I think I might invest in a postnatal compression suit!  :Big Grin: 

Weight: 240lbs (2lb gain)
Stomach BF%: 12mm. 

Chest: 46" +2/8
Waist: 42" +2/8
Arms: 17"
Thigh: 27" +2/8

Pictures:

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## krugerr

Day 87:

This log has almost fizzled out now. I was absent over the Christmas period, for work, family and sleeping. 3months made several inches difference to my waistline, I feel better in myself and fitter! 

I feel I achieved what I wanted, I adjusted my lifestyle and I am still making steady progress. 
Intermitted Fasting!! i love this, if im not researching it, im trying to sell it to friends and family!
I've had two further blood tests which put my testosterone at 603ng/dl and 690ng/dl respectfully. My doctor couldn't explain why my first reading in November was so low, but he has agreed to bi-monthly blood tests to monitor it. 

That said. T-minus 4 weeks until I start my other project. I shall keep you posted. Until then, many thanks to SteM, Digsy and others for their continued support and feedback in this thread!

-Krugerr

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## digsy1983

Speak the devils name and he appears. I mentioned you in the previous thread and then up you pop.lol 

You've done well with your I.F. Looking forward to the next project aswel! Good luck man!

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## krugerr

Many thanks Digsy!

You mentioned me in a previous thread? I thought my ears were burning!  :Wink:

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## GirlyGymRat

What's next for u? Have u considered entering the new contest???! Could be just the ticket! 

Congrats on your progress!!!

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## krugerr

I have a thread titled "Krugerrs Experimental Cut" i need to modify the OP though, but I can't do it from my phone. 

Hmm, I hadnt thought about that GGR! You make a valid point!! Ill read through the thread about it later. Healthy competition is always a good thing! 

Ps, nice legs  :Wink:

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## GirlyGymRat

> I have a thread titled "Krugerrs Experimental Cut" i need to modify the OP though, but I can't do it from my phone.
> 
> Hmm, I hadnt thought about that GGR! You make a valid point!! Ill read through the thread about it later. Healthy competition is always a good thing!
> 
> Ps, nice legs


Thx and just sign up. U will thank me later!!!

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