# MEMBERS EXPERIENCES > MEMBER'S CYCLE RESULTS >  Tbol/Var Cycle Diary - First Cycle

## Cmore

This is my first cycle ever. I basically wanted to try a less harsh, weaker cycle in order to get used to the world of aas, and have the least side effects. This is my planned cycle:

Week 1-4: 30 mg tbol/day
Week 5-10: 40 mg var/day
Week 11: 100 mg clomid/day
Week 12: 50 mg clomid/day

Weeks 1-12: 2000 mg flax/day
Weeks 1-12: 350 mg milk thistle/day

With this cycle there should not be need for heavy PCT, but better safe than sorry...so I will be doing some anyway. I also have Proviron on hand in case I feel the need.

My starting stats:
Age: 24
Height: 5'8"
Weight: 136 pounds
Years lifting: 10 (only 2-3 of which are serious)

After researching here for a while, I improved my diet drastically, though I still only gained 2-3 pounds before I began this cycle. I consume around 3500-4000 calories per day, not as clean as I would like, but much better than before. Also take in 2-3 shakes per day, one being PWO, the other before bed, and if a third, is in the mornings. Get between 175 and 225 grams of protein per day, and will probably increase that. I will keep everyone updated as my cycle progresses.

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## Cmore

O yeah, I forgot. I will post some pics as soon as I can. I took pictures before, and will take them probably after each week or every couple weeks. Definitely at the end.

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## Cmore

First update. After 5 days, I have gained 2 pounds, which could be contributed to the diet or any other number of things, and have noticed no other differences. No strength gains nor any sides yet.

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## Boudreaux

i'd like to know what results you get from it....I'm running a var only right now at 60mg/day...

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## Cmore

Next update, just finished day 8 yesterday. I had gained another 2 pounds by day 7. Gained another 1 pound through day 8, meaning I have gained a total of 5 pounds so far, and am up to 141 pounds. This is the most I have ever weighed, and it all seems to be good weight. I cannot tell a big difference in any particular parts of my body, just seem to be a bit thicker overall. Still no negative sides. I have noticed a slight increase in appetite, and feel slightly better. Appetite could be due to working out harder, and the feeling good due to seeing myself actually improve like I wanted, but the tbol is definitely working and I love it. No huge strength gains so far, but I have noticed that nearly all of my lifts yesterday were easier and I got a couple more reps than usual on almost everything. I also altered my planned cycle a bit, and instead of taking 30 mg/day of tbol for 4 weeks, I only took 30 mg per day for the first week, and I have upped it to 40 and will keep it there for the remaining 3 weeks of tbol. So the new cycle is this:

Week 1: 30 mg tbol/day
Weeks 2-4: 40 mg tbol/day
Weeks 5-10: 40 mg var/day

So far everything is great and I am loving tbol. Hopefully I will notice some bigger strength gains in the next few days and gain enough muscle/lose enough fat to reach my goals. By the way, I was around 10-11% bf before beginning. Have not checked to see if that has changed any, but will do so later. I am hoping to reach 150 pounds with around 7-8% bf.

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## Cmore

Today is a day off from lifting, but I am having to restrain myself from going. I really feel that upping the dose to 40 mg/day is going to work great. Here are pics of me before starting. I took them couple weeks ago, but had not got them up here yet. These pics are while cold, on a rest day. I know my back and wheels are lacking. I have been working hard on that, but please feel free to critique. I could use some good advice and constructive criticism. Thanks.

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## bignatt

i think you should probly wait before you juice

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## cdogge

> i think you should probly wait before you juice


I agree..but too late now....

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## Cmore

I have always been very slender built and a hardgainer. I would like to have waited until I reached 150-160 pounds naturally, but it was not going to happen until I get older and my metabolism slows down. I'm very active, playing baseball and other things when I'm not at work or lifting. I eat like crazy to try and gain, but has not worked. I had to bust my rump to even get where I am. Before I started lifting I was a small weak, nerdy looking guy with allergies. I know everyone is thinking what's different...trust me, I am bigger and healthier now. I was around 5'7" - 5'8" and only weighed 120 for a few years. I was sick throughout my entire childhood and into my early teens. I always played sports, though, and that's what kept me from being even more sick. I also have asthma. Anyway, I chose the two I did because they are lower on side effects, but also weaker. I do not need to take anything strong and grow a lot because I do not have the frame for it. I am trying to take a small weaker cycle in hopes that I can get myself healthier.
Thanks for the replies. Any other thoughts?

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## Cmore

Update: I am now 1.5 weeks into my cycle and I believe I have gained another pound or two. Will check for sure when I get to the weightroom this evening. Still no adverse side effects. Have gained some weight and strength and feel good. Hope it continues. I have noticed in the last day or two that I am starting to get some pumps. Everything is going great. Now back to work and then to lift.

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## powerbodybuilder

Keep training hard bro.

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## EcToMoRpHiAn

I am sorry, I am not familiar with what tbol is... You don't mean dbol ?

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## Nicky B

No he is talking about tbol not dbol here is all you will need to know about.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=172185

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## Cmore

Tbol = Turinabol 
Very good stuff, similar to Anavar , but provides a bit more mass or is a bit stronger is what most say.

Thanks, powerbodybuilder. I'm working my ass off in the weightroom right now. Yesterday, I weighed in at 143, so I had gained another pound or two in the last couple days. Things look great. I have upped my protein intake so that I try and never get under 200 grams. Trying for around 250. All of my lifts seemed easy yesterday, and I increased weight again on about half of them. I felt great. I am now starting to see a difference in my chest, which has always been a weak point. I feel great. Today is legs/abs. I've always had semi-flat stomach, but only had abs that showed a couple times. I can tell I've lost a bit of fat from around my middle, hopefully those abs will begin to poke out again soon.

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## Cmore

Update: Day 15

Everything is going great. I have started noticing one side effect, but is nothing serious. My face seems to stay a bit more oily during the day. Have not actually broke out or had any extra acne, just a bit more oily is all. No other sides whatsoever. Will weigh again after work today. Hoping to have reached 145. Weighed in at 144 Friday. So here is the progress as far as weight is concerned so far:

Beginning: 136 lbs
End of Wk 1: 139 lbs
End of Wk 2: 144 lbs

Goal was 150 lbs by the end, but I am going to up that goal to 155 by the end. I'm eating like crazy now as I had already adjusted my diet and the Tbol has slightly increased my appetite as well. Everything is great so far. Two more weeks of Tbol, then I start the Var.

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## yooo

thats a very low dose for the tbol and pretty low on the var, im interested in the results...

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## Cmore

I'm using lower doses to ensure little to no sides, but also since I am smaller to begin with, will not take as high a dose as for a larger guy. I also generally respond very well to any types of medicines, so thought I would probably respond well to low doses of aas as well, which I have so far. Just from what I have seen and all from the first two weeks, if I were to use Tbol again, which is highly probable, I would use it for something like 60 mg ed. Have not started the Var yet, but I would guess about the same for it.

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## Cmore

Yesterday, I felt the best I have in a long time. I am generally an easy going, carefree, happy person. So I feel good most of the time, but yesterday was awesome. My wife commented to me that she could tell I was bigger and that she thought my shoulders and chest were both looking broader and thicker. Hopefully the next 8 weeks will continue to get even better.

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## Nicky B

> Update: Day 15
> 
> Everything is going great. I have started noticing one side effect, but is nothing serious. My face seems to stay a bit more oily during the day. Have not actually broke out or had any extra acne, just a bit more oily is all. No other sides whatsoever. Will weigh again after work today. Hoping to have reached 145. Weighed in at 144 Friday. So here is the progress as far as weight is concerned so far:
> 
> Beginning: 136 lbs
> End of Wk 1: 139 lbs
> End of Wk 2: 144 lbs
> 
> Goal was 150 lbs by the end, but I am going to up that goal to 155 by the end. I'm eating like crazy now as I had already adjusted my diet and the Tbol has slightly increased my appetite as well. Everything is great so far. Two more weeks of Tbol, then I start the Var.


155 very realistic for you at the end this which is going good. Keep up the good work.

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## Cmore

Thanks, bro. After the next week or two, I might even re-evaluate and set the goal at 160. I am waiting to see how much I gain in the next few days, though, before upping it too much.

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## Cmore

Today is day 18. I've looked at the amount of Var I have and had planned on using 40 mg ED for 6 weeks. If I do that, I will have some left, so I have two options. My question is which option do you guys think would be best?

Option 1: 40 mg ED for 7 weeks
Option 2: 40 mg ED for 2 weeks + 50 mg ED for 4 weeks

Option one would add an extra week, but option two would be a bit stronger for those 4 weeks. Ideas/thoughts? Thanks.

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## xxSmartyPantsxx

it seems that most people say to keep the dose consistent.

have you gained any more weight?

any impact on libido yet? how are the "boys" hanging?

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## Cmore

Have not weighed in a couple days. One was a rest day, other I took an extra rest day because my arms were still not recovered from the previous workout in which I completely torched them. I weigh on the same scale every time so that I know for sure what I have gained. I weighed on another scale too, and I have gone up a couple pounds on it, but not sure what that will translate to on the other scale. Will post new weight soon as I have it, if it has changed. I think the last few days the weight gain has slowed a bit, but part is due to loss of fat I believe. I can actually see some abs now when I flex them. Bottom two are still hiding, but I can count 6 others, which I like. Libido is still the same as always, no affect whatsoever on that. Boys are hanging same as always also. No side effects whatsoever. I had a bit extra oily skin for about a week, but even that seems to have gone away now.

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## surfnsailor

> Today is a day off from lifting, but I am having to restrain myself from going. I really feel that upping the dose to 40 mg/day is going to work great. Here are pics of me before starting. I took them couple weeks ago, but had not got them up here yet. These pics are while cold, on a rest day. I know my back and wheels are lacking. I have been working hard on that, but please feel free to critique. I could use some good advice and constructive criticism. Thanks.


Bent over Barbell rows(your back needs it), 4 to 6 reps to falure, No smith machine! Eat till the food comes out of your mouth. Work hard bro! Take care.

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## muscularmodel

get some good fats(natural pb) in there along with your protein if you want to gain good weight, dont worry about seeing abs at this point,, protein with not enough fat will burn the fat right off your bones and you will gain no weight

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## Cmore

I eat lots of pb and also take flax. I've gained well so far, just hoping to reach that 150 mark soon. Will be hitting the weight room this evening and will weigh again. Should be up a couple pounds. Has been a few days since I weighed.

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## Cmore

> Bent over Barbell rows(your back needs it), 4 to 6 reps to falure, No smith machine! Eat till the food comes out of your mouth. Work hard bro! Take care.


For back I do bent over rows, lat pulldowns(close grip), deads, and hyperextensions(lower back). Any other exercises you guys would suggest or would more just overtrain? I usually do 3 sets X 8-10 reps on pulldowns/rows, 3 sets X 20 reps on hypers, and 3 sets X 6-8 reps on deads.

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## bignatt

i do weighted pullups, bent over rows, seated close grip rows, seated wide grip rows, lat pulldowns, and deads

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## surfnsailor

> For back I do bent over rows, lat pulldowns(close grip), deads, and hyperextensions(lower back). Any other exercises you guys would suggest or would more just overtrain? I usually do 3 sets X 8-10 reps on pulldowns/rows, 3 sets X 20 reps on hypers, and 3 sets X 6-8 reps on deads.


Go heavier and less reps for more mass. After 8 reps you fatigue the muscle. Fatigue simple fatigues, overload builds mass. Forget the high rep hyper extensions, for your body type, use your energy more efficiently, do waited hyper extensions or good mornings 4 to 6 to failure. Focus on mass! Are you always keeping tension on the muscles? Lower the wait slower than you raise it, but you probably know this.  :Smilie:

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## Cmore

Day 22: Weighed this past Saturday, which was day 20. Weighed in at 146. Everything is still looking good. No sides, workouts going great. Will workout again today and have weight to post later.

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## Cmore

Weighed in yesterday, day 22. Still was 146, but had a bad day eating. Did not feel good most of the day. Today is day 23. Five days left of tbol before starting the var. I'm going for 150 by the end of the tbol, so I had better eat like a madman this week.

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## xxSmartyPantsxx

how do you generally feel at this point in the cycle? are the strength gains good, are the pumps insane, any noticeable increase in vascularity?

how about mood, are you feeling anything different than before you started?

keep up the good work.

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## Cmore

Day 23 update. Weighed in yesterday at the weight room as always. Weighed in slightly over 148 pounds. Feels good to have almost reached the 150 mark. I feel great at this point. I'm only about 3.5 weeks into the tbol and it's great. All of my lifts have gone up, pumps have been fairly light probably because of only 40 mg. I have noticed a bit more vascularity, but not a lot. My mood has not changed at all. I'm still laid back and relaxed just like always. Basically I have gained 12 pounds and gotten thicker overall. Strength is up on every lift. I feel good about myself just seeing some good improvement and actually reaching some of my goals. The extra oily skin I experienced around the second week is gone. Boys are hanging just like normal. Libido is same as always. Basically I have no known side effects. I have been using the tbol and these first four weeks as a bulking phase. I hope to hit 150 by the end of this fourth week and then I will start the var and try to cut up some, but at the same time I do not wish to lose any weight. I think if I keep my diet the same, add in some extra cardio, and switch the tbol to the var, I should be able to maintain 150 or perhaps even gain just a few pounds, while getting ripped, over the 6-7 weeks of var. I plan on taking more pictures at the end of the tbol and then again at the very end. Will keep everyone updated.

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## Cmore

Again, I am reconsidering my var dosage. I would like to take 50 mg ED instead of the planned 40, but that will cut back on the length of time. I have 2000 mg, which is enough to last 50 days at 40 mg/day. That's almost exactly 7 weeks. If I up the dose to 50 mg ED, that cuts the time down to 40 days, which is a bit shy of 6 weeks. What do you guys think? 50 ED for almost 6 weeks or 40 ED for 7 weeks?

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## Cmore

Weighed yesterday, day 25. Was at 149 pounds and I was pissed because I was so close to 150, but not quite there yet. I have couple days left of tbol, though, so should reach 150 by the end of that. Lifts are going great. After I am finished with the tbol, I will take more pictures, then more again at the very end of cycle after the var. I took measurements before starting and will take them again in couple days and again at very end. Bench was good for me yesterday. Doesn't sound like much, but for me it was awesome. My 1 rep max before starting has been 205, while weighing 136. Yesterday, while weighing in at 149, I benched 185 for 8 reps AFTER having done 4 other sets before that.

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## SprinterOne

205 at a weight of 136 is pretty good. I am sure you are close to 220 if you can do 185 x 8. Keep up the good work and I have enjoyed reading about your progress.

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## Dally

keep pluggin along fella!

and whassup with the bruising on the arms?

and keep in mind to give yourself lots of rest as your growing like a weed. Whats you diet look like? are you downing a shake in the middle of the night? 

how bout cardio?

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## Cmore

> 205 at a weight of 136 is pretty good. I am sure you are close to 220 if you can do 185 x 8. Keep up the good work and I have enjoyed reading about your progress.


Thanks. I'm working about as hard as I can right now. Every time I see something improve or the weight seeming lighter it motivates me even more. Soon as I have those measurements and some exact numbers I will post them. I know I have gained some good size in some areas, just not sure how much. I will weigh again today and hopefully I will have hit the 150 mark. After that I will be shooting for 155. I believe I can reach that. Upon reaching 150, I will have gained 14 pounds from 4 weeks of tbol. Then I will have about 6 weeks of var left. Surely I can gain 5 pounds total from 6 weeks of var, or at least maintain 150 while getting shredded.

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## Cmore

> keep pluggin along fella!
> 
> and whassup with the bruising on the arms?
> 
> and keep in mind to give yourself lots of rest as your growing like a weed. Whats you diet look like? are you downing a shake in the middle of the night? 
> 
> how bout cardio?


Bruising on my arm is now gone. Was from extremely light shotgun+buckshot. I burst a small vein or something and the blood pooled in my arm. Not as bad as it sounds. I'm sleeping at least 8 hours per night, sometimes 9. My diet is not as clean as it should be. It's more of a dirty bulk. When I start the var, I will be cleaning it up, if not before. I drink 2 shakes per day, one of them being PWO on workout days. I do light cardio 2 days a week right now, and will be adding a third day of heavier cardio soon. My workout split is strange, but its what has been working for me.

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## Cmore

Here is my current workout split:

Sunday: Rest/Light cardio
Monday: Arms, chest, back
Tuesday: Legs, abs
Wednesday: Rest/Light cardio
Thursday: Arms, chest, back
Friday: Legs, abs
Saturday: Rest

Basically upper body 2 days a week and lower 2 days a week. I go to complete exhaustion once or twice per week and work almost to that point all other times. My muscles seem to recover quite rapidly, so I am able to train everything twice per week. This is partly due to the fact that all my muscles are still quite small, at least in comparison to most others here, and also that I have a very fast natural recovery rate. If for some odd reason I have a day where I do not feel recovered (which has happened only twice I can remember), I skip that day and adjust the split for that week accordingly.

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## SprinterOne

If you are going simply for weight gain, why are you doing any cardio?

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## Cmore

The cardio I'm doing is very light. I play softball 1 night per week and baseball 1 evening per week, so the cardio lasts for 2 hours at a time, but is very light because softball is not very strenuous. I'm going to add cardio during the var because I would like to maintain what weight I have, but get shredded. I used this first four weeks of tbol as sortof a bulking phase, but I need to be careful because of the dirty bulking diet, do not want to gain fat if at all possible.

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## SprinterOne

Ah, that's cool. I thought you were running on a treadmill or something. Nothing wrong with enjoying some athletic competition now and then, makes life worth living  :Wink/Grin:  Besides, I would hardly call baseball and softball cardio.

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## Cmore

Yeah, that's why I was calling it "light" cardio. Only reason I even call it cardio at all is that both the teams I play on are very competitive and we play hard. The baseball games actually last around 2.5 hours during early afternoon when it's hot, and I actually run quite a bit in those games. Softball we run a lot. It's an all mens league, so it's mostly a scoring game, usually 25-30 runs for each team each game, so lots of base running there too. So it's not quite cardio in the same sense that most use, but it is more than none. The extra cardio I'm going to add when starting the var will actually be running for a while, either on treadmill or track.

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## Cmore

Finishing up tbol. Will be starting the var directly after and will be running it at 50 mg ED until gone, which will be 40 days. Will be adding a day of cardio and cleaning up the diet a bit. Will still be eating around 4000 calories per day, just reducing the fat intake.

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## Cmore

Ok, finally have some measurements for everyone.

Measurements from couple weeks before starting tbol:
Arms: 13"
Forearms: 11"
Waist: 29"
Chest: 36"
Thighs: 19.5"
Calves: 13"

After 4 weeks of tbol (wk 1=30 mg ED, wks 2-4=40 mg ED):
Arms: 14"
Forearms: 12.5"
Waist: 30"
Chest: 38.5"
Thighs: 20.75"
Calves: 13.5"

I am happy with my results so far, but of course feel there is plenty room for improvement and still want more. As you can see, I gained a slight amount of size in my waist also. This will be the reason for adding some cardio and cleaning up the diet a bit. These things, along with the var, should remove any excess fat from around my middle or anywhere else while hardening up everything.

Start: 136 lbs
End wk 1: 139 lbs
End wk 2: 144 lbs
End wk 3: 147 lbs
End wk 4: 151 lbs

I reached my 150 mark +1, now to maintain that or gain just a couple pounds, while losing some fat. I've gained a total of 15 pounds during the 4 weeks, and kept almost the exact same body fat %, which means I gained around 1.5-2 lbs of fat. I'd like to shed that plus another couple pounds of fat, but gain another few pounds muscle, so that by the end of the var, I am between 150-155, with around 7% bf. I believe it can be done. I will post some pics from after these first four weeks soon and have others at the end of the var.

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## Defconx3

Im very impressed with the way your progressing. Keep it up bro!

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## Cmore

Today is day 2 of var. I've cleaned up the diet a bit. Still getting around 4000 calories per day and lots of protein. Only thing I have changed is watching the amount of fat intake closer and keeping it lower. I'm going to stick to the same split and little to no cardio for the first few days, maybe even week or two and see what things look like, then I will add cardio if needed. Will be weighing this evening. No idea if it is from the end of the tbol or already from just 2 days of var, but today my body feels harder than normal. Still no sides and I feel good and look better than I have. Hopefully I will get pictures up later today or tommorrow.

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## Cmore

Since I have only been on var for just over a day now, I have no thoughts on it yet, but only considering the four weeks of tbol I finished, I would revise the tbol portion to run it for 10 weeks at probably 50 mg ED. For someone trying tbol for the first time, or a smaller person, I would recommend starting at 40 mg ED to get an idea of how that will work for you. 40 mg ED has worked great for me. For a larger person or someone with more experience with aas, 60-70 mg ED would probably still work well, though this is just a guess. I now love tbol and hope that I will love var at least as much. After a couple weeks of var, I will know how I will do with it and will have good ideas for another future cycle if I so choose.

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## Cmore

Ok, I have a question. Let's say I planned on running tbol and var together, sortof like what I'm doing now, but the cycle was something like this:

Weeks 1-10: Tbol 50 mg ED
Weeks 4-10: Var

Would it be best to just add some var in addition to the tbol, or lower the tbol and say take 30 mg ed tbol and 20 mg ed var for the last 6 weeks and keep the total at 50 for the entire time? Or other ways would be best?

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## SprinterOne

> Ok, I have a question. Let's say I planned on running tbol and var together, sortof like what I'm doing now, but the cycle was something like this:
> 
> Weeks 1-10: Tbol 50 mg ED
> Weeks 4-10: Var
> 
> Would it be best to just add some var in addition to the tbol, or lower the tbol and say take 30 mg ed tbol and 20 mg ed var for the last 6 weeks and keep the total at 50 for the entire time? Or other ways would be best?


Well, what would your goal be for this cycle? Is the tbol used to gain and the var used to cut? Are they both used to gain? Strength? This will influence what you take when and how much.

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## Cmore

It would be a lean bulk type cycle. Perhaps try and put on around 5-10 pounds of muscle and add very little or no extra fat. This is for future reference, by the way.

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## SprinterOne

That would probably work, I just hope you are going heavy on the liver protectors. Those are about the max length you can do on an oral cycle.

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## Cmore

Yeah, I would never run orals more than 10 weeks, and would run any except var/tbol for 8 or less. I'm taking milk thistle.

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## Cmore

Weighed in today at 150, so no weight gain over the weekend, or at least none showed today. Had a rough day at work, non stop, and only had enough time to eat a few bites of lunch was a big part of it. Probably why I weighed in 1 pound less. Benched 205 for three reps today. First two unassisted, third I think my spot bumped it a bit, even though he says he didn't. I'm excited. 205 is my personal record and today I got 2 reps with it. After about 2-3 weeks of var I will try to max one day and see where I'm at. I'm hoping around 225-230.

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## Cmore

If I were to add some proviron , when should I add it? For the last 4 weeks during the var? I'm having no problems or sides that would warrant its use as far as that goes, just getting more information.

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## supermax21

Cmore, I just want to let you know how much I appreciate this thread. I am interested in the exact same cycle you are doing, but the lack of research I could turn up on it left me with cold feet. Keep up the good work

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## Cmore

I'm hoping to help a lot of people, including myself of course, with this cycle and thread. I know a lot of people are asking about Anavar and Turinabol . There are lots of threads asking questions and lots of answers, but hopefully this thread will contain many different things, including personal experience, all in one place. I think there would be a few changes made if I were to do this cycle again. Nothing drastic, but a few dosing/timing adjustments. I loved tbol and I think I will enjoy the var just as much, but will have to see.

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## Cmore

Just as a reminder, I changed the cycle that was outlined in the very beginning to:

Week 1: 30 mg Tbol ED
Weeks 2-4: 40 mg Tbol ED
Then day 29-68: 50 mg Var ED

If I begin to feel a decrease in sex drive I will add Proviron @ 25 mg ED for the last 25 days, or I might add it anyway.
I am on my third day of Var currently and everything is going great. No sides, I am up 14-15 pounds, nearly all of which is muscle, and my strength has gone up quite a bit. Even the tbol started bringing some of my veins to the surface, and I think running it for 8 weeks would add some good vascularity. Now that I've started the var, my goal for the end of the cycle will be to be 150-155 pounds, ripped and strong, with 7-8% bf.

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## Cmore

Just want to add another thing. Thanks to all AR members for the great information and making this place the best resource anywhere. Diet is definitely a huge part of any cycle. Make sure you get enough calories and eat enough protein. I have seen some pretty good gains on this cycle so far. Adding 15 pounds to someone who only weighs around 135 to begin with is a good bit, but I can easily tell when I have not eaten enough. Any day that I have not eaten as well as I should, which has only been 1 or 2, my weight has not gone up any, it will stay the same. Anyone looking to do any cycle, no matter what it is, please read, listen, research and get a good diet first. It does not have to be perfect, but make sure you learn a lot about it first.

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## Cmore

Today is day 4 of Var. Another good day yesterday, day 3. Worked legs. Weighed in just slightly over 151. Left the weightroom barely able to walk. Legs are still sore this morning. Still no sides, everything is great. I'm already starting to see a bit more veins. Having a few veins showing around my shoulders/arms with no pump, no flexing, and this is just a few days into var. Looking great for the rest of the var days.

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## Cmore

So far everything seems to be growing and improving and I am happy with all except for one part...my stomach needs more work. I am at nearly the exact same bf% that I was before starting. It seems that what little fat I had in my body has migrated from everywhere to around my middle. The front of my stomach is about the same, but my "love handles" seem a bit bigger. Could just be my imagination, but I doubt it. Anyway, what are some good exercises for stomach-front and sides? Right now I do leg raises, weighted crunches, side crunches. Desperate to get a ripped middle, so any ideas please help. Thanks.

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## GridIronDevil

i really enjoy reading about your progress, your specific about detail, and honest, i think this journal will help alot of people who intend to use var or tbol or both, good work bro, keep eating, and training, post some pics when its all said and done, should be an awsome looking change! GL and have fun Bro
-Grid

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## Joey2ness

awesome thread on anavar tbol and please post some pics of after results when your done

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## Cmore

Thanks bros. I took some pictures right after the 4 weeks of tbol, just have not taken the time to put them up yet. I will also take pictures again at the very end, after the var. I can tell some big differences in myself. I'm still not huge by any means, I mean heck, I still only weigh around 150. But, that's a great change for me considering I have been around 130-135 most all of my life. Today is upper body again. I'm hoping my strength might be up a bit, but the var probably will take a few more days to kick in. I'll try to get those pics up tommorrow.

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## Cmore

Starting today, I am upping my ab workout. I am going to make sure I work them extra hard nearly every day in the weight room and I'm going to add a couple extra exercises. Hoping to get my waist back down to 29" and add that lost size in other, move favorable places.

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## Cmore

WOOOOHOOOO!!! Today's workout was awesome. Strength up on EVERYTHING. As I posted a few days ago, my PR on bench from before was 205 and I got two unassisted reps of it the other day. Today I got 3 unassisted reps of 205 AFTER having already done 3 sets. I'm definitely going to go for a new PR in the coming week. I felt great today. My muscles are feeling a bit harder, the weight is feeling lighter, and I love it. I still weighed in at 151 today, so the weight gain has slowed. I do, however, believe I will make it to 155 by the end of var if not a bit higher. Making my diet more strict and limiting the fat/sugar intake is partly to blame for the slowed weight gain, but it should still move slowly while trimming my waist and any other bits of fat. Will hopefully post pics from end of 4 weeks of tbol in the morning. Everyone have a great night and great workouts. Seeya.

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## Cmore

New pics today. These are from the end of the four weeks of tbol. I think I had 1 day left in the 4 weeks when these were taken. At the time of these pics I am 151 pounds. Measurements are:

Arms: 14"
Forearms: 12.5"
Waist: 30"
Chest: 38.5"
Thighs: 20.75"
Calves: 13.5"

Still around 11% bf at that time. I can tell differences in myself almost everywhere and feel thicker overall. The pics look better to me than the first ones did, but I'm still just around 150, so not impressive by any means. Feel free to critique and let me know what all you guys think I have improved well or not so well. Thanks.

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## Cmore

I have decided to max on Tuesday of the coming week. I'm going to take Monday, the 4th, as an extra day off because I torched my arms and everything yesterday to the point they are still aching. Tuesday I will see exactly what kind of gains I have gotten on bench and try some heavy auxillary lifting too. PR from before, as I already stated, was 205 for 1 rep on bench. Did 205 twice around a week ago and got 205 three times yesterday. Depending on how I feel that day, which should be good from the long weekend, I'm going to aim for 225, then depending on how well that goes, 230-235.

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## bornonhalloween

I can tell your back is much wider...more mass on the quads...which is typical for beginners as those muscles are the first ones to see changes....keep up the good work.

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## Cmore

Thanks. My back and legs have always been lacking a bit too, so that's another reason for them to improve easier. My arms look like crap in those pictures. I'll try to get a better picture of them. They are still small, relative to most everyone here, but they are a bit bigger as is everything else. Still need more size on everything, though. If I were to run this cycle again, I would switch the amount of tbol/var in it. I only had enough tbol for 4 weeks at 40 mg ED, and var for 6 weeks at 50 mg ED. I would change it so that I had enough tbol for about 50 mg ED for 8 weeks and maybe run the var for the last 4-6 weeks of it. Or just run tbol only. Would have to see, I still have not seen what the var can do other than strength is going up fast.

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## Cmore

Anyone has some good oblique exercises or other ab exercises?

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## Cmore

Any critiques? Fairly weak in nearly every spot, I know. I definitely need to add some major mass and definition, but any critiques would be great. Any spots lagging behind or doing decent compared with the rest or whatever you guys think. Just let me know, I can use advice or whatever on exercises to add or techniques if you feel I need them. Thanks.

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## ace ventura

Very interesting reading.. 

I would consentrate on bulking as much as I could if I were you but ofcourse that depends on what goals you have. Will you continue the strugle to get bigger when this cycle ends? Or will you be satisfied with the gains and being a little leaner?

Also, do you run creatine with anavar ?

No particular exercise will burn fat around the middle, just do more cardio..

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## duke911

great diary. please keep us posted. If you had only changed your diet and not the gear do you think you would be getting the same results. Just trying to compare the tbol and the anavar . what would you do differently if anything? thanks

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## DwinsChamps

You may want to consider moseying around at the men's health website specifically, http://www.menshealth.com/cda/conten...&type=exercise . Keep in mind, though, that cardio is vital for burning the layer of fat over your abs...it's necessary if you want to see them. You're doing really well though, inspirationally well, so keep up the good work!

Additionally, some really good excercises are decline med ball/weight plate crunches, and a pilates-esque excercise where you lay on your back with your legs extended and locked. Proceed to raise your feet (while bending at the hips) up until your legs are approx. 75 degrees to the ground, then rotate your lower body to the left (while keeping your back flat on the ground) and bring your feet just about the ground, next to you on your left. From there, rotate all the way until your feet near the ground to the right of you, then rotate back left until your feet are inline with your body again. From there, lower your feet until they nearly touch the ground, then lift them back up to the 75 degree mark. Make sure you do this whole procedure slowly, keeping your abs under tension and taking your time. That's one rep. Do 6 reps for your first set, 5 for your second, and 4 for your third.

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## Cmore

> Very interesting reading.. 
> 
> I would consentrate on bulking as much as I could if I were you but ofcourse that depends on what goals you have. Will you continue the strugle to get bigger when this cycle ends? Or will you be satisfied with the gains and being a little leaner?
> 
> Also, do you run creatine with anavar ?
> 
> No particular exercise will burn fat around the middle, just do more cardio..


My goal for the end of this cycle was 150 to start, and now I would be happy anywhere between 150-155, but getting things more ripped and defined. I have not weighed since Friday, but I was at 151 then. I would like to lose about 3 pounds of fat and gain that same 3 pounds back in muscle, which would provide more definition and lower bf a bit. I have not being using creatine, I never really liked the stuff. It mostly adds water weight and although I am bulking, I would like to remain somewhat leaner. As for after this cycle, I would like to just maintain what I have gained. Hopefully by the time I am ready for a second cycle, if there is one, I would still be between 150-155 and decently ripped. My final goal when all is said and done, where I would like to be for the rest of my life, is 160-170, 6-7% bf, and completely shredded. Remember I am only 5'8".

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## Cmore

> great diary. please keep us posted. If you had only changed your diet and not the gear do you think you would be getting the same results. Just trying to compare the tbol and the anavar. what would you do differently if anything? thanks


My diet is a dirty bulk type of diet, or was from the beginning til the last few days. I ate anything and everything that was around even when I was not hungry. Now I have cut back just a bit on fat/sugar intake, but kept the amount of food/calories/protein high. I believe just changing my diet would have possibly allowed me to gain a few pounds, but my guess is 5-7 at best. I have tried eating like crazy before and it just did not seem to work. I think the tbol has allowed my body to utilize the protein better to gain muscle. If anything, adding the extra protein has helped a lot. I would say a few pounds from the extra protein and a few more from the rest of the diet, but my guess is no where near the 15 I've gained. As for the tbol/var, they both have great benefits. I have not seen all of the var yet, because I'm only around a week into it, should be soon, though. The tbol was awesome. I gained muscle fast, had no negative side effects, and it slightly increased my apetite. My strength has gone up already from the var, but I have not noticed much else as of yet. I should start seeing more veins and definition soon. Something I would do differently....I would run more tbol. I would probably run the tbol for weeks 1-8 at 40-50 mg ED and then the var at 50-60 mg ED for weeks 7-10. Definitely use milk thistle if run any orals for 10 weeks, though. I use it anyway, and would with any orals. Not sure on the var, though. As I said, have not seen its full effects yet, so will know for sure later on that. I do know, however, that I absolutely loved the tbol and would definitely run it again.

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## Cmore

Thanks, DwinsChamps. I already do those leg things, I just called them leg raises, although I don't do them exactly like you have there. I will try that. I also do the weighted crunches.

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## Cmore

Day 10 of anavar . Diet has been cleaned up. Still a bulking diet, but fat has been cut back. Weight is holding at 151 so far. Strength is slowly moving up. I'm getting an extra rep or two on most lifts. No negative side effects. Veins are slowly becoming more visible. So far I prefer tbol to var, but I'm still just 10 days into var, so hopefully the rest that's left will impress me more. Workouts are going great, though.

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## SprinterOne

> Day 10 of anavar. Diet has been cleaned up. Still a bulking diet, but fat has been cut back. Weight is holding at 151 so far. Strength is slowly moving up. I'm getting an extra rep or two on most lifts. No negative side effects. Veins are slowly becoming more visible. So far I prefer tbol to var, but I'm still just 10 days into var, so hopefully the rest that's left will impress me more. Workouts are going great, though.


Remember one thing about var, most people don't feel the strength gain. Sometimes you have to just add more weight before you realize you have gotten stronger. I have read plenty of posts were people say they didn't think it was working until they added more weight, and were surprised they could do it. As a matter of fact, I have an acquaintence who is running var at just 20mg/ed and he had the same thing. He thought it wasn't working so I told him to try and lift more weight then he normally did. He reported back to me that he made a huge jump in one day, continually adding weight for 3 consecutive sets, only because he hadn't consistently tried to lift heavier.

I have also read that it takes 14 days for the strength effects of var tokick in, so that may have something to do with it as well.

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## Cmore

I can tell the var is working, but yes, it is very subtle. In order for me to see its effects, I tried lifting heavier just to see. I did the same workout on bench that I had been doing. Two warmup sets, then sets of 10,8,6, increasing weight as I go down in reps, and then at the end I do another lighter set of 10-12, but do it very slow and make sure I torch everything good. I did another 2 sets after the last set last time and felt the same as I did before without doing them. Today I will probably increase either the weight or reps for each set because the weight seems to be easier almost every time I lift. Mostly I prefer the tbol because of the size gain, but the var seems to add strength for sure. Also, like you said, it sometimes can take around 2 weeks or so to notice much from var, so I'm hoping there are still more good things ahead. Another positive thing is that I believe I have slimmed my waist slightly since starting var and I still weigh the same, which means I have probably lost a bit of fat and gained it back in muscle, which is great.

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## Cmore

Update, day 18 of Var:

Strength continues to steadily climb. Pumps are becoming somewhat intense most all day long. I can just flex my arm for a few seconds and it feels fully pumped like I just worked out. Weight had continued to remain the same at 151 until couple days ago and I had increased another pound. So weight is at 152. Diet is still around 3800-4000 calories per day, and I am still getting less fat than before. I have trimmed my stomach slightly from where I had gained a bit. Still have lots of work to do there, but is getting better. Lifts are going great. My workout on bench Monday was 2 warmup sets, then 185 - 9 reps, 205 - 3 reps, 205 - 2 reps, 205 - 1 rep, 135 - 15 reps. All three sets of 205 were close together. I rested for very short intervals between. I will be trying for 215 for 2 reps today. Legs seem to be growing well. I am very anxious to take measurements again, but I will wait until the very end.

Start: 136 lbs
End wk 1: 139 lbs
End wk 2: 144 lbs
End wk 3: 147 lbs
End wk 4: 151 lbs
End wk 5: 151 lbs
End wk 6: 151 lbs
End wk 6.5: 152 lbs

Goal is to be 153-155 at very end. Hopefully 2-3 pounds of fat lost during the remaining time and 3-5 pounds of muscle gained instead.

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## xxSmartyPantsxx

any sides?

how's the libido been? how are the boys hangin'?

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## Cmore

> any sides?
> 
> how's the libido been? how are the boys hangin'?


At about 2 weeks into the tbol, after I had upped the dose a bit, I experienced a slight increase in oily skin, although no real acne. That went away after 3-5 days, but has come back since starting the var. Skin is just slightly more oily than usual, but no extra acne. I have seen absolutely no sides from var or tbol other than that. Libido has been exactly the same throughout the entire time. No problems performing and the boys are hanging just like always.

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## Cmore

Well, I'm off to lift. Will post how it goes later, most likely tommorrow.

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## randy6969

i am on a tbol cycle and its giving me stomach aches and my libido has gone down real bad.  :Frown:

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## SprinterOne

> i am on a tbol cycle and its giving me stomach aches and my libido has gone down real bad.


You sure you got tbol? From what I know about tbol it increases libido, not decreases.

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## ace ventura

I'm about 7-8 days into [email protected]/ed (25mg 06:30 and 18:30). I feal like I have a butterfly in my stomach sometimes and it causes my heart to beat a little faster when I start to think about it, if you know what I mean? Is that from tbol? Maybe I'm just excited to see how it will work. (It's my first cycle, test e/tbol/anavar /nolva). Cmore; did you experience anything like this?

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## Cmore

I guess it could be interpreted as butterflies, mine seemed to be more like I was hungry. The tbol seemed to stimulate my apetite to where I was hungry nearly all day long. One thing to consider is that I spread my doses throughout the entire day to get it as even as possible. I had 10 mg tabs in tbol and took only 1 tab each dose with multiple doses. Makes it harder to remember when to take and all that, but seems to keep blood levels more consistent. For the tbol at 40 I took one each dose at 7 am, 12 pm, 4 pm, 9 pm. Now that I'm on var at 50, I take 3 doses. Morning dose at 7 am is 2 tabs, afternoon dose at 2 pm is 2 tabs, night dose at 9 is 1 tab.

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## Cmore

Workout went well yesterday. At first I felt weak, just like I was about to have an off day, but it went well after the first couple sets. Warmed up on bench, then for a first set I was going to do 185 6-8 reps. Got it 4 times. Then moved on to 205, it went as easy as the 185. I got 3 reps. Then 215 for 2 reps, 220 for 1 rep. That's my new PR. I've never benched more than 205 before, even though I've been doing it for 3 reps lately. Hopefully by the end of the var, I will be around 230-235 as a 1 rep max.

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## SprinterOne

> Workout went well yesterday. At first I felt weak, just like I was about to have an off day, but it went well after the first couple sets. Warmed up on bench, then for a first set I was going to do 185 6-8 reps. Got it 4 times. Then moved on to 205, it went as easy as the 185. I got 3 reps. Then 215 for 2 reps, 220 for 1 rep. That's my new PR. I've never benched more than 205 before, even though I've been doing it for 3 reps lately. Hopefully by the end of the var, I will be around 230-235 as a 1 rep max.


This is how I feel before all my workouts when on var, then I have fantastic workouts. It's like var gives you a fake lethargic feeling. You think you have no energy, but once you start going you find yourself having a great workout.

As for your bench, that is some amazing improvement. 15lbs and only 2 weeks in. And since you did all the lifting before it, your 1RM is probably more like 225. I think you could realistically get to 240 by the end of your cycle, just keep pushing forward.

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## Cmore

> This is how I feel before all my workouts when on var, then I have fantastic workouts. It's like var gives you a fake lethargic feeling. You think you have no energy, but once you start going you find yourself having a great workout.
> 
> As for your bench, that is some amazing improvement. 15lbs and only 2 weeks in. And since you did all the lifting before it, your 1RM is probably more like 225. I think you could realistically get to 240 by the end of your cycle, just keep pushing forward.


Yeah, that sounds exactly like what it was. Is the first time it has happened, though. I think part of it could be that I have been extremely busy this week and my body is probably more tired than usual. I have still been getting enough sleep as always, just been very physically active this week, even more than usual.
I will probably try and max in another week or two. I would love to be able to hit 240. Being able to get 2 reps of 225 would rock, and I think I will get there. My incline db press has also been increasing quite well. I used 55 lb dbs yesterday for 3 sets of 10 reps and will probably increase that to 60's next workout or the one after that.

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## randy6969

> I'm about 7-8 days into [email protected]/ed (25mg 06:30 and 18:30). I feal like I have a butterfly in my stomach sometimes and it causes my heart to beat a little faster when I start to think about it, if you know what I mean? Is that from tbol? Maybe I'm just excited to see how it will work. (It's my first cycle, test e/tbol/anavar/nolva). Cmore; did you experience anything like this?


ditto... i feel like that too im going to try to spread doasages like cmore to see how it goes

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## kloter1

i just finished reading your log so far. nice work bro. im glad to see someone actually put some quality into posting. im starting superdrol this week and then var in a few months. i cant wait.

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## Cmore

Day 22 of var was yesterday, workout went great. Felt slightly weak on bench the whole time, but rest of the workout was great. I went up in weight on around half of my lifts and added a couple reps to all the others. Part of my bench being low was that I had a baseball game Sunday evening, in which I pitched 8 innings, so my right arm/shoulder/side/back is still pretty sore from that. Worked most of the soreness out yesterday, though. My shoulders seem to have gotten a lot thicker lately (from front to back). I have managed to trim the front of my stomach, but my obliques are still lagging behind. Everything is going quite well. Not sure if it was that I had a crappy last couple days or what, but I seemed a bit touchy yesterday evening. I don't think it's the var, has only been that one day and I have felt good overall the rest of the time. So far I have gained 1 pound since starting var, strength is up some, and only side I can think of is that I'm slightly lethargic at times. Pumps have been pretty good, but nothing too serious. Although I have only gained 1 pound overall, I appear to have gained more, so it seems that I may have lost a slight amount of fat and actually gained a bit more than 1 pound of muscle. Overall it's going good and I believe I would run 40-50 mg ED tbol + 20-30 mg ED var for 8 weeks in the future.

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## Cmore

Day 23 yesterday. Was leg/ab day. Had a good workout. Legs are still feeling weak/sore this morning. I absolutely torched my abs. Did extra sets until I couldn't do any more. Weighed in at 152, so weight was still the same as the couple days before, but it has been moving up slowly. I'd guess I've gained 2 pounds of muscle and lost 1 pound of fat from the 23 days of var. Not all that impressive on those numbers, but my body seems harder overall, muscles seem more defined and veins are still slowly coming out. Strength is still up good. So far I think var would be good to supplement another stronger product and probably produce a very good synergistic combination, or to harden and solidify what you have gained. Used alone I am not sure it would be worth the price you must pay. Not in my case, at least. But I would definitely include it in a stack and think that along with test (which I've never tried) or tbol would be great.

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## Cmore

Not even finished with this cycle yet and already I'm thinking about the next one. This stuff sure gets addictive when you see such great results after busting your ass for years. Let's say I end up at 153 pounds, 10% bf, by the end of the current cycle and after PCT and time off cycle I am 150 pounds at 10% ready for second cycle (hopefully). My goal for the second cycle would be to reach 160-165 pounds and remain 10-11% bf or lower. What kind of cycle would you guys set up using tbol and var? Any ideas, comments, suggestions, changes:

Wks 1-8: 50 mg Tbol ED
Wks 1-8: 30 mg Var ED

Increase/decrease doses of either/both? I know it's stacking two orals, but both are relatively low doses and lesser in sides/strength and I've had no problems whatsoever with the current cycle. Milk thistle would be used the entire time.

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## ace ventura

Just take in consideration that this is your first cycle and as you know the first cycle is the best..

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## Cmore

> Just take in consideration that this is your first cycle and as you know the first cycle is the best..


Yes. Very true. I have considered that. By the end of this cycle, I should have gained about 17 pounds (if I reach 153). Gaining another 17 pounds would put me at about what my overall goal is, and only after 2 cycles. Being 165-170 completely ripped is my goal for the rest of my life. So far I am not interested in getting any heavier than that. I still play sports and would like to remain fairly lean. I am hoping that I would be able to gain around 10 more pounds during my second cycle and believe I could do that by taking the tbol for 8 weeks and upping the dose to 50-60. I only took 40 mg tbol for 4 weeks and gained 15 pounds this first round, so with a higher dose and for longer, even being second cycle I should be able to gain a decent amount of size, provided diet and all is good. Do you think 10 pounds is a reasonable goal for the second cycle I have in mind? O, by the way, I will be taking a good amount of time off between. Upon finishing this first cycle, I will take probably 3-4 months to allow my body to fully adjust, recover, and prepare for the next. I'll still be working hard, just off cycle during that time.

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## Cmore

Well, I'm over 3 weeks into the var and I have to say I'm not impressed very much. The pumps are ok, the strength is good, but that's about it. I might have gained a slight amount of vascularity in my shoulders/chest, but not much. I have gained only 1 pound in total weight just cannot tell much of a difference. My wife made a statement yesterday that she could not really tell a difference in me since starting the var. She said she could tell big differences at the end of the 4 weeks of tbol, but none since then. I guess this is more reassurance that var is a good synergistic/supplemental product. I will definitely use tbol as the base of my next cycle and possibly var along with, but not all that much considering the price.

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## ace ventura

Do you think you should up the callories?

I have been on 50mg/ed of BD tbol myself for two weeks now. Eating and training has not been to good the last week due to stomach trouble from cialis (!). The first week was ok. I felt a little harder and no other sides than some butterflies as mentioned.

-I imagined I would feal the steroids in my body in a way but I don't feal any different, though I have gained in bodyweight and strength. I startet at about 200 lbs and I'm now ~210 lbs at most (but I have been allmost there before so this is easy gains).

Last saturday was the first time on tbol that i did chest workout. I had a great workout the week before. And this time on tbol I actually put on 10kg/22lbs more this time just to see how it went. And surprisingly (I didn't feal too good this day, not eating good and I slept two hours before workout, felt really lazy) I lifted 5 reps x 3 sets and then 7 reps on the fourth set (I was alone). Last time I benched I did 6x4 with 20 lbs less and still I was at my best.

I worked out yesterday. Was not in good shape at all but still I worked out with about 10kg/20lbs weights more than I would have done on such a bad day naturally I think.

I expect my diet and traning to be much better from now on and I look forward to see the results.

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## kloter1

for a 2nd cycle i would throw in test. test+var seem to work very well.

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## Cmore

I get 3500-4000 calories per day. Same as I was getting on the tbol. I think since the var is weaker, the tbol perhaps hid some of the gains I would get earlier. I believe the var is working, just slowly. At the very end I will probably notice some good things, other than the increase in strength. I do believe that running var for a longer time, such as 8-10 weeks, instead of running it for 4-6 would work better, at least for me.

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## ace ventura

Are you sure you don't need more calories now since you have gained weight and therefor need more calories to suply that mass?

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## Cmore

That's probably a good thought. I had adjusted a few things for the extra weight, but had not thought about the calories. I probably should make sure of 4000 minimum, perhaps make it 4000-4250 or so.

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## Duster

your doing good bro i think i might end up doign the same or close cycle to yours....i guess you can say you inspirird me to do it!....wish you the best!!and good luck

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## Liftnainez

yea same here.. great keeping up with your cycle's progress. Makes me want to do it as well

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## Cmore

Day 29 yesterday. Felt ok on bench to start, but as I went from set to set, instead of feeling weaker and getting more tired, I started feeling stronger and more energized. By the time I finished my sets of bench, I was pumped and ready to kick some ass the rest of the workout. All lifts went great. I'm still at 152, but it was slightly above that, so probably gained a fraction of a pound. Veins in my shoulders and bis still slowly become more visible. Although I'm still at nearly the same weight that I was when I finished the Tbol, I seem to appear bigger. I can tell slight differences, but other people have started to notice and make comments about me gaining size/weight, so it seems the Var is at least moving the weight around and getting it in the right places and hopefully I've trimmed a bit of fat.

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## ace ventura

This sounds good, Cmore!

My bench went up 22lbs/10kg in the first two weeks. Last time I did 176lbs, 6 reps x 4 sets. This is the best I've ever done I think, even though I had a bad day.

Did you get painfull back pumps from tbol?

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## Cmore

> This sounds good, Cmore!
> 
> My bench went up 22lbs/10kg in the first two weeks. Last time I did 176lbs, 6 reps x 4 sets. This is the best I've ever done I think, even though I had a bad day.
> 
> Did you get painfull back pumps from tbol?


Never got any negative sides from the tbol other than oily skin for 3-4 days. It happened when I upped the dose from 30 to 40 mg ED. Skin was oily for a few days, but then went away.

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## Duster

Everything seems to be going your way cmore. Im probably going to do that same cycle as you except with some dbol . Hook us up with some pictures soon to bro!

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## Cmore

Will definitely have more pics as soon as it's over. Should be around 2 more weeks, give or take a few days. Too lazy to count it up right now. I've been extremely anxious to take measurements again, but have held off and will wait until the very end.

Start: 136 lbs
End wk 1: 139 lbs
End wk 2: 144 lbs
End wk 3: 147 lbs
End wk 4: 151 lbs
End wk 5: 151 lbs
End wk 6: 151 lbs
End wk 7: 152 lbs
End wk 8: 152 lbs

Hoping to be 153 by end and I think that's probably right where I'll be. Will have those updated pics and measurements in couple weeks when everything is completely finished. Next cycle will be 8-10 weeks, tbol/var, similar to this one, except I will probably switch around the total amounts of each. This first round I used 2000 mg var and about 1000 mg tbol. I will use tbol for 8 weeks next time and the var at a lesser dose for around the same. So will probably end up using around 2200 mg tbol and around 1000 var. Anyway, this cycle is going great and I am anxious to see the very end results. Will keep everyone posted.

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## Cmore

Went ahead and counted it up. Today is day 31, so 9 more days left.

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## Cmore

One more thing I have started noticing lately from the var is my aggressiveness/motivation, or lack thereof. While taking the tbol, I was extremely pumped mentally and busting my ass in the weightroom every day and wanted more. I kept that mentality during the first 2-3 weeks of var, but since then it just seems that I haven't had the same drive to push myself. Not until I get to the weightroom at least. I feel good overall, but don't have any extra desire to lift like before. After getting to the weightroom and warming up, however, I feel great and am ready to go. I only feel slightly lethargic, if any, just don't have any EXTRA desire to lift as I did with the tbol.

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## Cmore

Yesterday was a rest day. I noticed veins in my arms, chest, and shoulders more last night than ever before. Much more. The vascularity is starting to come out really good. The veins aren't standing out from my body, but I can see the bluish green lines much much easier now. Still no noticeable negative sides and I'm feeling great. I'm definitely ready to take measurements and check out how much I have gained on lifts at the very end.

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## duke911

Keep up the great work and the great post. Im about to start my tbol cycle 40-50 mg per day. cant wait.

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## Nicky B

Have you thought of maybe upping the dose of the var by 10mg or so for the last week.

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## Cmore

> Have you thought of maybe upping the dose of the var by 10mg or so for the last week.


I've thought about it and might even do it. I'm supposed to have 9 days left including today, I think. So if I upped the dose, it would only shorten it by a couple days. I'll probably do that starting today. So entire cycle will be:

Day 1-7: 30 mg Tbol ED
Day 8-28: 40 mg Tbol ED
Day 29-59: 50 mg Var ED
Day 60-66: 60 mg Var ED

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## Nicky B

> I've thought about it and might even do it. I'm supposed to have 9 days left including today, I think. So if I upped the dose, it would only shorten it by a couple days. I'll probably do that starting today. So entire cycle will be:
> 
> Day 1-7: 30 mg Tbol ED
> Day 8-28: 40 mg Tbol ED
> Day 29-59: 50 mg Var ED
> Day 60-66: 60 mg Var ED


No need to shortin the cycle.

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## Cmore

> No need to shortin the cycle.


No choice. That's all the Var I have.

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## Cmore

I'm going to have to change up my workout routine. Up until this point, I have been working each body part twice per week, but that is no longer enough rest. I will be changing my workout split so that I only work each part once per week. Here is the split I have been thinking about. What do you guys think?

Sunday: Rest
Monday: Chest/Tris
Tuesday: Legs
Wednesday: Rest
Thursday: Back/Bis
Friday: Shoulders/Abs
Saturday: Rest

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## Duster

sounds good bro

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## Cmore

Two more days left after today. Everything is going good. Will post pics towards end of the week hopefully. Will also have measurements.

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## Duster

Im interested in seeing the difference

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## Nicky B

> Two more days left after today. Everything is going good. Will post pics towards end of the week hopefully. Will also have measurements.


Did you bump the dose

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## Cmore

Yes, I ended up bumping the dose up to 60 for the last few days. Everything is great, I just finished and will start PCT. Will have those pics and measurements up as soon as I get some time.

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## Cmore

I will also be checking my numbers at the weightroom today and will post how much my bench has improved and possibly some others as well.

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## TADOLFI

Hey bro - new to the board. I've used Tbol (successfully I might add) and would like to hear your take on that vs. the VAR when you have time.

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## Cmore

> Hey bro - new to the board. I've used Tbol (successfully I might add) and would like to hear your take on that vs. the VAR when you have time.


I like both of them, but I am partial to the Tbol. It would probably depend on what my goals were at the time too. I gained about 15 pounds in 4 weeks on Tbol, and have only gained 2 pounds in about 5-6 weeks on Var. Although I have gained little weight, my arms, chest, and all the good places are a bit bigger, so I have moved the weight around a bit. Tbol was a lot more mass/size, Var gave more vascularity. Both gave great strength. Both gave decent pumps. They seem very comparable at least to me. Only real big difference was the size/mass gain and that was obviously better with the Tbol. I do think that the two taken together, instead of how I ran this first cycle, would work great.

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## Cmore

Measurements from couple weeks before starting tbol:
Arms: 13"
Forearms: 11"
Waist: 29"
Chest: 36"
Thighs: 19.5"
Calves: 13"

After 4 weeks of tbol (wk 1=30 mg ED, wks 2-4=40 mg ED):
Arms: 14"
Forearms: 12.5"
Waist: 30"
Chest: 38.5"
Thighs: 20.75"
Calves: 13.5"

Post Cycle:
Arms: 14.25"
Forearms: 13"
Waist: 30"
Chest: 39"
Thighs: 21"
Calves: 13.75"

Start: 136 lbs
End wk 1: 139 lbs
End wk 2: 144 lbs
End wk 3: 147 lbs
End wk 4: 151 lbs
End wk 5: 151 lbs
End wk 6: 151 lbs
End wk 7: 152 lbs
End wk 8: 152 lbs
End wk 9: 153 lbs

Entire cycle ended up being:
Wk 1: 30 mg Tbol ED
Wk 2-4: 40 mg Tbol ED
Wk 5-8: 50 mg Var ED
Wk 9: 60 mg Var ED

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## Cmore

Also have new pics today. These are from a couple days after finishing the cycle. I'm still lean and have lots of work ahead, but compared to the very first pictures, I believe it's like night and day. Feel free to critique and give some good advice and pointers. Thanks.

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## Cmore

A few more pics.

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## ptrainer

Cmore,

Hey my man ...Great job!!!

I just read your post from start to finish. Thats a lot of good info for someone just starting out. Did you ever get your blood tested during your cycle?

I just finished a 12 wk cycle of Var only about 3 wks ago ( was my first ever). I ran it up to 150 mg per day. That's right ...per day. I stayed mostly at 100mg ed. Not much wt gain ...about 11 lbs. I traded in about 7 lbs of fat with that as well. I know the lethergy your speaking of with the var. I did have my blod tested several times during my cycle to keep an eye on my liver and kidneys. To my suprise I stayed within the normal range the whole time with those values. BUT ... damn ... it effected my triglycerides sooo much as well as my HDL's. Triglycerides are used for energy. They are a big source of energy in daily living just going about your business. I've been reading on clen and also ephedrine ... they both increase the availability to use triglycerides and fatty acids for use as fuel. Just a thought ...hmmm I think I may try to work a little of that into my next STACK. My bench jumped from 265 to 315 over the 12 weeks and funny thing ... I still seem to be making some good progress. I've been working out HARD for about 21 years ... I'm almost 40. I think it really got me to the next level. My next cycle I think I'm going to use some Primo and Anavar and maybe 4 weeks of winny thrown in if it feels like I'm in need of a little more. Oh .. and a bit of ephedra as well. Ever thought of Primo? I like orals and slow growth that stays.

For now I'm on my way to re-ballancing my system back to normal. For some reason I just don't like the thought of muscle sticks. I'm currently 203and 6'1" and my BF is at 7%. I've had no fall of as of yet.

Jackson ... I think you look fantastic!

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## Cmore

Thanks, ptrainer. Hopefully this will provide some good first hand info about Tbol and Var and answer some questions that people may have. You're looking good, bro. Keep up the hard work. My goal for my next cycle will be 165 lbs. Once I reach that weight, I will probably then work on cutting a bit, but not much.

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## Cmore

I didn't have my blood tested at any time. I took milk thistle and flax to help with the liver and circulatory system. Of course I have no proof of this, but I believe that the only thing that was probably changed was my blood pressure and maybe a bit of cholesterol. High BP and cholesterol both run in my family, so that is part of it, but neither were high enough to make me feel different or have any sides. I will probably have a blood test done in the next few weeks to check how my levels are after PCT.

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## xxSmartyPantsxx

wow, i just looked at your before pics....dayum, you really look different.

good job, i know it was hard work and dedication that paid the dividends.

this was the best log i've read here.

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## Cmore

> wow, i just looked at your before pics....dayum, you really look different.
> 
> good job, i know it was hard work and dedication that paid the dividends.
> 
> this was the best log i've read here.


Thanks. I really worked hard. Harder than I ever thought I would want to, and the harder I worked, the more I liked it, because I was seeing results. Most people will probably look at the last set of pics, including myself, and think "Not very good, a somewhat muscular skinny guy". And they would be correct, but if you pull up a pic from the first set and last set side by side, they are very different. So far I have kept all of what I gained also. Of course, I'm only a few days into PCT.

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## Cmore

O, yeah, I was planning on putting up my numbers on some lifts and how they improved. Here goes:

Bench:
Before: 205 X 1 rep
After: 205 X 5 reps

Incline DB Bench:
Before: 3 sets X 10 reps w/35-40 in each hand
After: 3 sets X 10 reps w/55-60 in each hand

Squats(I can't squat very heavy because of a recurring injured ham):
Before: 3 sets X 10 reps w/185
After 3 sets X 10 reps w/225

Curls:
Before: 3 sets X 10 reps w/25 in each hand
After: 3 sets X 10 reps w/35-40 in each hand

Tricep Pushdowns:
Before: 3 sets X 10 reps w/50 lbs
After: 3 sets X 10 reps w/90 lbs

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## TADOLFI

Cmore...Great pics and great work!
I think this whole thread should be bumped to the Mod

If and when you're ready for cycle two - start a new thread and keep the info coming.

I appreciate the feedback on the Tbol.
I was sold on mass and pump when I did my first cycle.

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## Cmore

I will definitely keep a log again when it comes time for next cycle, if there is one. More than likely there will be, but will be a few months down the road.

I'm about 5-6 days into PCT and everything is still great. I still weighed 153 a couple days ago and will weigh again today when I get to the weightroom. I have changed up my workout routine as I had thought about doing. It is now:

Sunday: Rest
Monday: Chest/Tris
Tuesday: Legs
Wednesday: Rest
Thursday: Back/Bis
Friday: Shoulders/Abs
Saturday: Rest

Looks like nearly every single pound will be kept so far. Will know for sure later. I will keep everyone updated. If anyone has any questions, comments, critiques, whatever about any part of this entire thread, please feel free to post them. I can always use good advice and I will answer any questions as best I can and based on my personal experiences.

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## kloter1

So what ive seen so far you'd recommend tbol over var? as far as better strength and weight gain? I might run an 8weeker of tbol soon.

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## Cmore

> So what ive seen so far you'd recommend tbol over var? as far as better strength and weight gain? I might run an 8weeker of tbol soon.


I would recommend tbol over var for mass/size. I would recommend var over tbol for strength, although not by much. Tbol gave good size gains and good strength and the var gave very little size and good strength. Basically I just like tbol better overall for my personal goals and tastes because it allowed me to gain some size. For a second cycle I will probably run something like this:

Weeks 1-8: Tbol 50 mg ED
Weeks 3-8: Var 30 mg ED

Two orals together, I know, but both are relatively low doses and only 80 mg ED total, which is around what a lot run var only at, so it should not be too hard on the liver. Will take milk thistle anyway, though.

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## Cmore

Yesterday was Chest/Tris. Had a good workout. Weighed in at 152, which is one pound down, but I have not eaten well the last couple days, so I think that had more to do with it. Will weigh again today and weight will probably be back up 1 pound. I'm still feeling good, working out hard. No problems from PCT thus far and strength seems to be only very slightly back down, but this could have been because of an off day as well. Will keep checking and updating here.

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## Cmore

Back/Bis yesterday and everything went great. Weighed in at 152 again and have started eating even more to try and maintain all the weight/size I can. Hopefully when all is said and done and I stop losing I will be at 150 or higher, which I believe will happen. Still no problems of any sort.

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## Cmore

Yesterday was a rest day. Today will be shoulders/abs. Then starting Monday I will be on the previously mentioned split. Everything is still going good. Will weigh this afternoon and see where I'm at.

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## Cmore

Will be chest/tris today. Last time I weighed in I was at 151, so I have dropped 2 pounds total. I don't think I've lost any more over the weekend, but will weigh today to check. Everything is still great.

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## Cmore

Weighed in at 151 yesterday. Felt good during workout. Completely torched chest and tris. Arms still feel like jello today. All is looking good.

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## Cmore

PCT is finished. I ran clomid for 3 weeks. 100 mg ED for first 2, then 50 mg ED for last week. Everything is great. I remain at 151 pounds and feeling good about everything. The vascularity in my shoulders/chest is still there, if not more so since losing those 2 pounds. I'm still much stronger than I was before cycle, even though that strength has dropped some since the var left my system. Benching 205 3 reps now, which is an improvement from that being my 1 rep max before. I feel much much healthier than I did before and am happier with my body now. About another 15 pounds from next cycle or two and I will have reached my overall goal. Thanks everyone for keeping me motivated and helping me to learn.

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## Cmore

Everything is still great. Have had good workouts this week so far. Benched 205 three times and would have tried for four, but I did not have a spot, so strength is not as down as I had thought, only slightly. I'm still using the same weight on all other lifts as I was while on cycle. None of those have gone back down at all. I weighed in at 151 again, so it looks like that's going to be my new weight for a while.

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## Rocky IV

> Everything is still great. Have had good workouts this week so far. Benched 205 three times and would have tried for four, but I did not have a spot, so strength is not as down as I had thought, only slightly. I'm still using the same weight on all other lifts as I was while on cycle. None of those have gone back down at all. I weighed in at 151 again, so it looks like that's going to be my new weight for a while.


hey i love your thread i followed the whole thing your before and after pics are great.. do you think it would be ok to stack the two compunds together
at 50mg of tbol and 40mg of var a day along with all the procautions milk thistle ect.? also do feel a good sence of well being kinda like your on test? confident and feel great? also were you pumped 24 hours a day once you were a few weeks into your cycle?

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## tboney

Good work!! Thanks for keeping us informed!

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## tallyjuice

amazing thread! great job!

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## spywizard

Good job man.. you can tell from the back you were really doing a good job with the var.. or rather it was for you.. 

Keep us posted..

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## Milky87

Wow! Cmore for Prime Minister (or Presidnet)!

That log was easily the most informative I have ever read. I can see from the picturs that you put on some good size for you.Nice work man!

What dosing protocol did you use? Did you take it all in the morning, spread throughout the day, half-half around training?

Ptrainer: Good job on yours aswell

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