# GENERAL FORUM > IN THE NEWS >  LMAO @ the UK

## Panzerfaust

Oh make no mistake about it, its going beyond the UK as well but the UK is absolutely spineless regarding this Muslim filth.



Yeah, the UK is rushing toward dhimmitude. Perhaps I get that impression because it's an english speaking country and it's easier to follow news there, but they seem absolutely spineless.

I mean, just a small selection:

*Muslims in UK get their own cells because they don't like to be around non-muslims.*

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti....html?ITO=1490

*Children's story Three Little Pigs banned from awards because pigs are offensive to muslims:*

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/7204635.stm

*A british schoolgirl is barred from wearing a cross necklace in class because it might offend muslims classmates (while kids of other religions were permitted to wear items that identified their faiths):*

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...-38200,00.html

*The head of the BBC, the UK's massive state sponsored media outlet openly says Islam will be treated "more sensitively" than christianity*

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...istianity.html

*Change names of teams and clubs because it might offend muslims:*

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/b...7319-22300761/


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cri...-and-Jews.html

*Police issue apology for ads that showed a photo of a puppy because dogs offend muslims*

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...emans-hat.html

*British school drop the Holocaust from history lessons becuase it might offend muslims:*

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...g-Muslims.html 



 :Aajack:   :Aajack:   :Aajack: 

What is hilarious, I bet most of the English are oblivious to any of this news.  :LOL: 


You either grow some balls and eradicate this scum from English soil or continue taking it up the ass and have your Country stolen from you without a single shot fired. Downright pathetic and the English should ****ing revolt by tomorrow morning to have any chance of keeping their country to themselves. 

And if anyone on this board has a problem with the facts above or my view towards these issues, go **** yourself! I'm not even English either.

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## Mooseman33

it just sickens me to see and read that......

and they just lay down and take it...

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## Panzerfaust

> it just sickens me to see and read that......
> 
> and they just lay down and take it...



Don't you worry, Americans will do little more than the English. Americans are already being bombarded with this sick and twisted ideology of "Be tolerant of others culture and beliefs".."Diversity is good"...so you should allow this filth whatever they wish all the while allowing your culture and beliefs to be trampled on.


"Yes we can"

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## MuscleScience

> Don't you worry, Americans will do little more than the English. Americans are already being bombarded with this sick and twisted ideology of "Be tolerant of others culture and beliefs".."Diversity is good"...so you should allow this filth whatever they wish all the while allowing your culture and beliefs to be trampled on.
> 
> 
> "Yes we can"


Ugg, I hate the establishment telling me I have to think all cultures and their beliefs are equal. Cultures that cut women genitals off are not cultures I want me or my family to associate with, just for example.

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## Bio-boosted

Some of this really is all true, like the 3 pigs thing. Crack is tho, the muslims think we are going too far too. Some are worried that all this making way for their 'sensitiveness' is makin them feel alienated or pointed-out from the crowd.
Some local authorities are doing this sort of thing because a 'rebel' muslim kicks off about some sh!t, so the council overreact. it's a fukkin j.o.k.e.
The stories are from little local councils mind, it's not a national plan to roll over and die.
The BBC is pandering to the muslim minds though. Ever since 9-11 we've had pro-muslim progs. All that happens now is they think they can get away with asking for special treatment. I don't get it, WE were attacked but now WE have to submit to this fukkin bull sh!t???!!!?
The vocal muslims are getting worse, just when you thought they'd get quieter and say like, "we aren't all like that". But... nothing. 
We're a quiet bunch over here, take things slowly, but all these stories are a terrible joke. The kettle will boil over at a push. I suspect.
One more thing. The Daily Mail. It's a bollox paper. Pretty right wing, they'll never live down the nazi-sympathy stance during WW2. turds

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## Bio-boosted

Diversity is good. But we don't have it. It's all one way traffic, that's not helping anyone.

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## xlxBigSexyxlx

> Ugg, I hate the establishment telling me I have to think all cultures and their beliefs are equal. Cultures that cut women genitals off are not cultures I want me or my family to associate with, just for example.


exactly.

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## Matt

Sad to say but "no" ive not heard any of this. I dont read news papers but i make a point of watching the national and regional news everyday.

The prison one is easy to explain, if i go to prison and im put in a cell with a prisoner that i dont like or i think smells then i can get a cell swap. It might be the case that no one wants to share a cell with them... So this isnt just for muslims its for everyone. Btw, i know this because ive spent years in the prison system.

On the other subjects, im speachless and horrified but not supprised lol..
This country has no back bone and never will, those days have long long gone. This is why i fight the system. Our country is lost..

You guy's should learn from this and for fvck sake dont let the same happen there...

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## Panzerfaust

> Ugg, I hate the establishment telling me I have to think all cultures and their beliefs are equal. *Cultures that cut women genitals off are not cultures I want me or my family to associate with, just for example.*



Let me make this clear, I respect their culture and religion. It is there's and they can have it...just keep it to yourself and keep it in your sandbox over there. 

When you impose it on non-muslim nations, then you should be eradicated with extreme prejudice.

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## Matt

The sadest thing i watched for many many years was when our troops who had just returned from afganistan went on parade through their local town. Muslims protesters were allowed to turn up and scream abuse and hate towards them as they marched past. They wernt our boys allowed to kick to to fvcking death...

I swear if i had been there id of killed as many of them as i could..

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## Flagg

A lot of those sources are from The Mail and I despise that Newspaper immensely. Along with The Sun, they are the two most hate filled xenophobic fear mongering pieces of tat out there. 

Thing is, you have to read between the lines. Yes, a lot of Muslims are getting all this extra PC Treatment, but these newspapers encourage the general public to be afraid, to be xenophobic. 

The media is whats wrong with democracy in todays world. They tell us to be afraid of stuff like this, so it makes the "war on terror" seem just. They bombard us with this sort of stuff and then tell us what is happening in American Idol this week on the next page. They will tell us that all our soldiers, British and American are all 100% heroes and the thought of one of soldiers commiting a crime is beyond immagination. And then they will tell us how unacceptable it is for one of our soldiers to die.

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## Bio-boosted

> The sadest thing i watched for many many years was when our troops who had just returned from afganistan went on parade through their local town. Muslims protesters were allowed to turn up and scream abuse and hate towards them as they marched past. They wernt our boys allowed to kick to to fvcking death...
> 
> I swear if i had been there id of killed as many of them as i could..


Staggering what they can get away with! It is a sh!tting joke.
If this had happened down here in Plymouth... but then they don't have the numbers to hide behind.
Yet

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## Flagg

Every now and again i'll read The Guardian and see whats happening on http://news.bbc.co.uk/ but beyond that I won't believe a single thing uttered else where.

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## Matt

> Every now and again i'll read The Guardian and see whats happening on http://news.bbc.co.uk/ but beyond that I won't believe a single thing uttered else where.


Yeah i understand what your saying lol i know for a fact that the prison thing is just aload of shit, we all have a say when it comes to sharing a cell with someone we dont like..

But things like the three little pigs, man that made me a tad angry...

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## Flagg

> Yeah i understand what your saying lol i know for a fact that the prison thing is just aload of shit, we all have a say when it comes to sharing a cell with someone we dont like..
> 
> But things like the three little pigs, man that made me a tad angry...


Yeah stuff like that pisses me off. I mean its a kids nursery rhyme. Its the same when the Goliwog was taken off Jam Jars because of who it might upset. I mean what's next, pork banned in the UK cause that's where it'll ****ing go next. Muslims might get upset at someone eating a bacon sarnie.

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## Panzerfaust

Oh, the Germans are also getting it.  :LOL: 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8185209.stm 

German football song irks Muslims 

An anthem sung by fans of the German football club FC Schalke 04 has drawn protests from Muslims because of its reference to the Prophet Muhammad.

The Gelsenkirchen club, which plays in Germany's top league, the Bundesliga, has asked an Islam expert to consider whether the song might be insulting. 

The third verse contains the words: "Muhammad was a prophet who understood nothing about football". 

"But of all the lovely colours he chose [Schalke's] blue and white," it goes. 

The club has received hundreds of e-mails from angry Muslims recently, since Turkish media carried reports about the song. 

Police in Gelsenkirchen, in the industrial Ruhr region of western Germany, say they are taking the Muslim complaints very seriously. 

The head of Germany's Central Council of Muslims, Aiman Mazyek, said his council would not call for a ban on the anthem, but would like "an explanation of its background". 

The song is called "Blue and White, how I love you" and in German the lyrics about Muhammad read: Mohammed war ein Prophet, der vom Fussballspielen nichts versteht. Doch aus all der schoenen Farbenpracht hat er sich das Blau und Weisse ausgedacht.

The German news website Deutsche Welle says the song was written in 1924 and it is not clear when the Muhammad reference made its way in.

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## Flagg

All I'll say on this is that yeah, it's getting ****in' ridiculous how much bending over we are expected to do..but you have to remember its just these ****ing local MP's that come up with this stuff, simply to make a name for themselves. 

What the News SHOULDN'T DO is demonise this, turn people into hate fearing xenophobes. What the news should do is condemn the MP that would try and pass a certain law. The Telegraph and Mail are both very dubious sources. 

The news does not spread the truth, it spreads fear. As long as we remain afraid and dumb, then our governments are happy.

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## NightWolf

Whoever said blowing up buses and buildings killing
innocent people doesn't pay off?

Here is another:

*Female UK police officers have to wear headscarfs to not offend muslims*

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/8171151.stm

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## Flagg

And if I was a Muslim today, i'd have more things to gripe about than football verses and danish cartoons. But there you go. Fanatasism and sensitivity all wrapped up in one culture.

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## MuscleScience

> Whoever said blowing up buses and buildings killing
> innocent people doesn't pay off?
> 
> Here is another:
> 
> *Female UK police officers have to wear headscarfs to not offend muslims*
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/8171151.stm


I must admit I am all for cultural sensitivity but this is way overboard. If I was a female officer and forced to abide by someone else's religious beliefs I would be pretty pissed and tell them all to **** off. But then again I am probably a raging racist for thinking this way and need to be properly socialized by the status quo.

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## Flagg

> Whoever said blowing up buses and buildings killing
> innocent people doesn't pay off?
> 
> Here is another:
> 
> *Female UK police officers have to wear headscarfs to not offend muslims*
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/8171151.stm


Im utterly dumbfounded by that. The Somerset Police think their female officers wearing scarves will go along way to the Muslim community trusting the police force. Don't these bozos get the idea that trust has to be earned. 

Man, this thread is pissing me off on so many levels. 

DEMOCRACY ISN'T FAILING, IT'S FAILED.

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## Panzerfaust

> All I'll say on this is that yeah, it's getting ****in' ridiculous how much bending over we are expected to do..but you have to remember its just these ****ing local MP's that come up with this stuff, simply to make a name for themselves. 
> 
> What the News SHOULDN'T DO is demonise this, turn people into hate fearing xenophobes. What the news should do is condemn the MP that would try and pass a certain law. The Telegraph and Mail are both very dubious sources. 
> 
> The news does not spread the truth, it spreads fear. *As long as we remain afraid and dumb, then our governments are happy.*



No as long as WE remain silent, then our Governments are happy.

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## Flagg

> No as long as WE remain silent, then our Governments are happy.



It reminds me of the film The Matrix. WE need to unplug more people.

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## Bio-boosted

So since 9-11 what has happened in the USA? Are all your muslims apologetic or sympathetic or just quiet?
I guess they aren't kicking off at as much as they are over here, but isn't anything happening at all?
The French are clamping down on them, the Dutch are having problems, but there is a media blackout to prevent backlash there (and in the uk too i'd bet).
Is it nice and peaceful in the US? What are you guys doing right that we aren't? Or praps yr muslims are just keeping their mouths shut..?

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## Panzerfaust

> It reminds me of the film The Matrix. WE need to unplug more people.



Absolutely 100% true...not even joking. 

This quote on Revolution sums it all up nicely and holds a very deep meaning that is built into each and every one of us.




> *Revolution:
> 
> Is a beast that lives deep within our souls, a beast that is the essence of human love, born from the molds of Truth, Reason, And Justice. Dehumanized institutions hold the power to decieve the beast, placing it in a world where it's senses do not function. It is deliberately blinded and deafened by a veil of ignorance, until it falls into a deep slumber, this is an era ruled by Corruption, Deception, and Injustice. If the beast is NOT AWAKENED, the destruction of humanity is inevitable."*



The people have been put into a deep sleep where critical thinking and common sense do not function. Only when we stand up and make our voices heard (through massive numbers) will WE ever see true change. Not the kind of change you only hear about, but the kind of change we can all see and benefit from.

It is crystal clear that the Gov't no longer serves the will of the people. It is far past time to stand together. It is no longer a question of "Should we stand up?"..it is a question of "When will we stand up?"

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## NightWolf

> It reminds me of the film The Matrix. WE need to unplug more people.


Im already unplugged a long time ago, just waiting for the rest to join.

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## paulzane

And still the sheeple vote for the arsewipes (Conservatives and Labour) who have allowed this to happen (I won't say too much or I will get banned!)

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## countrybhoy

> And still the sheeple vote for the arsewipes (Conservatives and Labour) who have allowed this to happen (I won't say too much or I will get banned!)



vote BNP . dont listen to the media . at least they are fighting for your rights,

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## paulzane

> vote BNP . dont listen to the media . at least they are fighting for your rights,


People are scared off the BNP by the constant, and persistant media lies.

Britain is the only country in the world where love of your country and patriotism is virtually a crime and you get persecuted for it.

The Marxist leaning, big three political parties, LibLabConners have seen to that  :Frown:

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## countrybhoy

> people are scared off the bnp by the constant, and persistant media lies.
> 
> Britain is the only country in the world where love of your country and patriotism is virtually a crime and you get persecuted for it.
> 
> The marxist leaning, big three political parties, liblabconners have seen to that


thats so true though i dont see britian as a country . More a collection of independent nations tied togther with an econmic goal . English people should be allowed to be proudly english same as irish scottish and welsh . But they cant because the people in power have no balls and are worried of offendinG vistors . After all thats all they are . They dont belong . And if they dont like the laws fvck off back to your own country .

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## Bio-boosted

Only a Turd quotes himself... but can I get an answer to this.. I wanna know how the US fares.




> So since 9-11 what has happened in the USA? Are all your muslims apologetic or sympathetic or just quiet?
> I guess they aren't kicking off at as much as they are over here, but isn't anything happening at all?
> The French are clamping down on them, the Dutch are having problems, but there is a media blackout to prevent backlash there (and in the uk too i'd bet).
> Is it nice and peaceful in the US? What are you guys doing right that we aren't? Or praps yr muslims are just keeping their mouths shut..?

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## *El Diablo*

Its bullshit

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## TITANIUM

> Oh make no mistake about it, its going beyond the UK as well but the UK is absolutely spineless regarding this Muslim filth.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, the UK is rushing toward dhimmitude. Perhaps I get that impression because it's an english speaking country and it's easier to follow news there, but they seem absolutely spineless.
> 
> I mean, just a small selection:
> 
> *Muslims in UK get their own cells because they don't like to be around non-muslims.*
> ...


I like your political views!!!ALOT!!!

Nothing is as refreshing to hear as someone being politically vocal.

And yes, people need to grow some balls and wake the f*ck up.

There like cattle going to a slaughter house, and thinking, "OH well, Nothing we can do about it now"!!!

We the people should get our own island and start our own country.

I'm going off in a tangent again...... :7up:

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## Matt

> I like your political views!!!ALOT!!!
> 
> Nothing is as refreshing to hear as someone being politically vocal.
> 
> And yes, people need to grow some balls and wake the f*ck up.
> 
> There like cattle going to a slaughter house, and thinking, "OH well, Nothing we can do about it now"!!!
> 
> We the people should get our own island and start our own country.
> ...


Very well said lol..

The day will come when they decide there should be a tax on fresh air, like lost little sheep we will pay that tax...

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## Panzerfaust

> I like your political views!!!ALOT!!!
> 
> Nothing is as refreshing to hear as someone being politically vocal.
> 
> And yes, people need to grow some balls and wake the f*ck up.
> 
> There like cattle going to a slaughter house, and thinking, "OH well, Nothing we can do about it now"!!!
> 
> *We the people should get our own island and start our own country.*
> ...





Our forefathers did that very thing, they called it America! The place you now stand...it's past time to take it back.

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## Panzerfaust

Damn, is there no end to absurd bullshit?

http://bnp.org.uk/2009/01/council-jo...-white-people/



Labour-controlled Manchester City Council has organised a jobs fair at Manchester Town Hall on Tuesday January 20th. 

According to the Manchester City council website, attendees can “obtain advice on employment related matters, training and educational opportunities.”

Free workshops will also take place, offering “practical advice on completing application forms and interview techniques”.

The event will feature a range of employers including the Royal Air Force, Greater Manchester Police, HM Prison Service, and Greater Manchester Fire and Rescue Service and would surely have attracted a great deal of interest from desperate, unemployed local people thrown out of work by Labour’s disastrous economic and mass immigration policies. The only slight catch is that this council jobs fair is only for members of “black and minority ethnic communities”.

Councillor Abid Chohan is quoted in the Manchester Evening News as saying: “This new jobs fair aims to ensure that all sections of Manchester’s black and ethnic minority communities are represented in the workplace.”

Here is yet more evidence of the rank hypocrisy of the Labour Party, which levels false accusations of “racism” at the British National Party for seeking to represent the political interests of native British voters, while Labour politicians themselves have no qualms about organising events designed exclusively for black and minority ethnic people. Under Labour’s grotesque doctrine of Multiculturalism, it seems that the native folk of these islands must always be deprived of their own voice and treated as second class citizens in their own country.

Anyone requiring information about Labour’s job fair can call the Town Hall on 0161 234 3985. Unemployed white people can get a more sympathetic hearing by calling the BNP national enquiry line on 0871 050 0232.

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## MuscleScience

> Only a Turd quotes himself... but can I get an answer to this.. I wanna know how the US fares.




My alma mater holds cultural exchange fairs at school, the muslim student groups usually have the biggest turn outs from all groups when they hold an event. Never ever seen any problems or fights or anything like that. In fact there is usually never any security seen other than the normal UCop that rides their little golf cart thing around. My best friend in the world dated a Persian girl that migrated to Turkey with her family and later came to school here. She would always stress to us especially after 9/11 that Muslims dont hate the US as much as both Domestic and International news sources would have us Americans believe. 

Honestly there is a relatively large muslim population in my community and they are as integrated into the university and community as much as any other group if not more. I never hear of problems that anyone is having. Now the Mexicans is a different story, if there is a group in PARTS (stress the part of the country) of the US that is being came down on harder than others there is where I would bet my money. 


All I know is where I am from no one gives a shit what someone else is doing. All we want is to be left the hell alone (especially from the government) and let us live like we want to live and raise our families.

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## Older lifter

> Let me make this clear, I respect their culture and religion. It is there's and they can have it...just keep it to yourself and keep it in your sandbox over there. 
> 
> When you impose it on non-muslim nations, then you should be eradicated with extreme prejudice.


I have worked all over the world for 17 years, lived with many cultures and what i now believe is that i don't respect other so called cultures, I can acept that they do things there way but why should i respect what i don't think is right. Example: while working in Iraq i travelled out from Basra each day, there as an area where people waited for contract work in the morning, after that area there was another one where they picked up there little boys for the day "women are for making babies, boys are for pleasure" i was told, it's our culture etc etc. Respect it NO, acept that it's what they have done for a long time, yes.

I had to acept this and many other things while working in these countries, But i want the same when they come to ours. I was told over and over you can't wear shorts while working as it offends the people,,,ok, women needed to wear burka's while out in the street there,,,ok. So why can't we say that these things offend us in our countries when they come here, I don't like seeing a burka on a woman in my country and we should be able to say it........ Hate to say this but France seems to be the only place that is growing some balls......

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## MuscleScience

> I have worked all over the world for 17 years, lived with many cultures and what i now believe is that i don't respect other so called cultures, I can acept that they do things there way but why should i respect what i don't think is right. Example: while working in Iraq i travelled out from Basra each day, there as an area where people waited for contract work in the morning, after that area there was another one where they picked up there little boys for the day "women are for making babies, boys are for pleasure" i was told, it's our culture etc etc. Respect it NO, acept that it's what they have done for a long time, yes.
> 
> I had to acept this and many other things while working in these countries, But i want the same when they come to ours. I was told over and over you can't wear shorts while working as it offends the people,,,ok, women needed to wear burka's while out in the street there,,,ok. So why can't we say that these things offend us in our countries when they come here, I don't like seeing a burka on a woman in my country and we should be able to say it........ *Hate to say this but France seems to be the only place that is growing some balls.*.....


There is an oxymoron if I have ever heard one!!!

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## Older lifter

Lmao,,,, if that was a joke. But at least there standing up a bit

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## Undercover

Some many wrong things posted in this thread. I don't even know where to start.




> Let me make this clear, I respect their culture and religion. It is there's and they can have it...just keep it to yourself and keep it in your sandbox over there. 
> 
> *When you impose it on non-muslim nations, then you should be eradicated with extreme prejudice*.


wow that was very xenophobic and close-minded.

You don't realise that you're just as bad as the muslims who want to be treated differently. Both sides have to work for integration to happen. 

The things mentioned in the articles you posted, true or not, are horrible. I'm pretty sure, though, that most muslims in the UK have no idea. So why get angry and start calling people scum and pleading for mass eradication? Dangerous way of thinking. Nazis had that very same idea about Jews. THEY'RE TAKING OVER! OH GOD SOMEONE STOP THEM! and I guess we all know how that story ended.




> What the News SHOULDN'T DO is demonise this, turn people into hate fearing xenophobes. What the news should do is condemn the MP that would try and pass a certain law. The Telegraph and Mail are both very dubious sources.


Precisely.




> After all thats all they are . They dont belong . And if they dont like the laws fvck off back to your own country .


lol wtf. they're not visitors, they're citizens. now if you're suggesting that 'real' citizens have to be white..... :No No: 




> Example: while working in Iraq i travelled out from Basra each day, there as an area where people waited for contract work in the morning, after that area there was another one where they picked up there little boys for the day "women are for making babies, boys are for pleasure" i was told, it's our culture etc etc. Respect it NO, acept that it's what they have done for a long time, yes.


How is that part of the culture? you don't judge cultures based on the sayings of a paedophile.




> I was told over and over you can't wear shorts while working as it offends the people,,,ok, women needed to wear burka's while out in the street there,,,ok. So why can't we say that these things offend us in our countries when they come here, I don't like seeing a burka on a woman in my country


It's not the same thing. Anything you wear that's above the knee is considered offensive in Islam. Are burkas offensive to your culture? If that were the case, they would have banned ghost costumes in Halloween a long time ago. It just annoys you because it's a muslim woman under the burka....latent intolerance.

Having said that, I do think it's retarded that someone asked you to wear pants while you work. What year and what country was it?


Seriously guys, I have to say I'm truly disappointed. The Daily Mail and BNP? Since when is white nationalism cool again?

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## MuscleScience

> Some many wrong things posted in this thread. I don't even know where to start.
> 
> 
> 
> wow that was very xenophobic and close-minded.
> 
> You don't realise that you're just as bad as the muslims who want to be treated differently. Both sides have to work for integration to happen. 
> 
> The things mentioned in the articles you posted, true or not, are horrible. I'm pretty sure, though, that most muslims in the UK have no idea. So why get angry and start calling people scum and pleading for mass eradication? Dangerous way of thinking. Nazis had that very same idea about Jews. THEY'RE TAKING OVER! OH GOD SOMEONE STOP THEM! and I guess we all know how that story ended.
> ...


It hasnt been cool to be white in a long time, I think that is where a lot of outrage and anger come from. Being white and proud is not only not cool it gets labeled as racist. Frankly White people are sick and tired of being demonized by everyone including other bleeding heart whites.

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## BgMc31

> It hasnt been cool to be white in a long time, I think that is where a lot of outrage and anger come from.* Being white and proud is not only not cool it gets labeled as racist.* Frankly White people are sick and tired of being demonized by everyone including other bleeding heart whites.


That's not true. Being a supremacists is labeled as racist. Whites try to make that assertion all the time, but it's simply not true. Demonizing others and criticizing other's beliefs and cultures because it's different, labeling it inferior makes it racists or xenophobic.

Minorities don't mind whites being proud of their cultures. Eminem is still cool, Tom Brady is still the coolest cat in the NFL, whites still make more money than anybody else. There are many organizations that whites have that aren't racists organization and they express pride for their cultures (Knights of Columbus, Scottish Clan Societies, etc.). 

Whites for years have been telling minorities for years to get over the past and stop bitching. It's time you practiced what you preach. Chris Rock said it best, "What are you complaining about....YOU'RE WHITE!!!" LOL!!!! :7up:

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## Undercover

That's because it's really stupid to be proud of your race...any race. Why are you proud of being white? You are only white because you were born white. You certainly didn't work your way to being white. So why are you proud?

I also find it silly when minorities' [INSERT RACE HERE] PRIDE is tolerated, while white pride is considered racist. Both are equally dumb, and the reasons why one would be more tolerable, are, without a doubt, political.

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## MuscleScience

> That's not true. Being a supremacists is labeled as racist. Whites try to make that assertion all the time, but it's simply not true. Demonizing others and criticizing other's beliefs and cultures because it's different, labeling it inferior makes it racists or xenophobic.
> 
> Minorities don't mind whites being proud of their cultures. Eminem is still cool, Tom Brady is still the coolest cat in the NFL, whites still make more money than anybody else. There are many organizations that whites have that aren't racists organization and they express pride for their cultures (Knights of Columbus, Scottish Clan Societies, etc.). 
> 
> Whites for years have been telling minorities for years to get over the past and stop bitching. It's time you practiced what you preach. Chris Rock said it best, "What are you complaining about....YOU'RE WHITE!!!" LOL!!!!


I disagree, you cant display that your a proud white male and not seem like a supremacist. The worst thing you can call someone in America is a racist and it gets thrown at people way to fast. No matter how you try to argue with me I cant agree sorry. Eminem is white but most white people dont really view him as White America at all, at least me and my peers dont. And Tom Brady is a complete cheese dick, no one can stand him...LOL

----------


## MuscleScience

> That's because it's really stupid to be proud of your race...any race. *Why are you proud of being white? You are only white because you were born white. You certainly didn't work your way to being white. So why are you proud*?
> 
> I also find it silly when minorities' [INSERT RACE HERE] PRIDE is tolerated, while white pride is considered racist. Both are equally dumb, and the reasons why one would be more tolerable, are, without a doubt, political.


Thats not true, my ancestors where white, worked hard to make a life for them and there children. They worked hard at being part of a greater society as a whole. I see no luck involved, if they my ancestors were not doing something right then I would not be alive to be proud of who I am. I am proud of who I am because the of the people before were who they were. If they were black, asian, native american or whatever I would feel the same way. Being apathetic to ones own race is worse in my view than being a racist. Being apathetic is how one loses their cultural identity and to me that is disrespecting all those ancestors before you. Thats just how I feel though, someone can call me racist if you want I dont really care.

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## Undercover

> Thats not true, my ancestors where white, worked hard to make a life for them and there children. They worked hard at being part of a greater society as a whole. *I see no luck involved*, if they my ancestors were not doing something right then I would not be alive to be proud of who I am. I am proud of who I am because the of the people before were who they were. *If they were black, asian, native american or whatever I would feel the same way*. Being apathetic to ones own race is worse in my view than being a racist. Being apathetic is how one loses their cultural identity and to me that is disrespecting all those ancestors before you. Thats just how I feel though, someone can call me racist if you want I dont really care.


Your ancestors are white and not black because of luck. 

If you are going to be proud no matter who your ancestors were, it doesn't make sense to be proud of your race.

Your ancestors worked for their society and not you. You didn't do anything to contribute. What you can be proud of is the society and other socities you lived in, because you're a contributing member. 

To make things clearer, think about this. Your ancestors slaughtered and enslaved people. Do you feel guilty all the time about being white? No? but why? I'm sure your answer would be "because I had nothing to do with it". Well, there you go. Being proud or "apathetic" (as you put it) are both equally dumb.

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## Bio-boosted

> My alma mater holds cultural exchange fairs at school, the muslim student groups usually have the biggest turn outs from all groups when they hold an event. Never ever seen any problems or fights or anything like that. In fact there is usually never any security seen other than the normal UCop that rides their little golf cart thing around. My best friend in the world dated a Persian girl that migrated to Turkey with her family and later came to school here. She would always stress to us especially after 9/11 that Muslims dont hate the US as much as both Domestic and International news sources would have us Americans believe. 
> 
> Honestly there is a relatively large muslim population in my community and they are as integrated into the university and community as much as any other group if not more. I never hear of problems that anyone is having. Now the Mexicans is a different story, if there is a group in PARTS (stress the part of the country) of the US that is being came down on harder than others there is where I would bet my money. 
> 
> 
> All I know is where I am from no one gives a shit what someone else is doing. All we want is to be left the hell alone (especially from the government) and let us live like we want to live and raise our families.


Many thanks MS.
Interesting, because integration over here is minimal. Separation (_not_ segregation) seems to be encouraged by Imams, especially in the education system. It's not good for the future of the kids. All they will know is, 'us vs them', if we're not careful.

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## MuscleScience

> Your ancestors are white and not black because of luck. 
> 
> If you are going to be proud no matter who your ancestors were, it doesn't make sense to be proud of your race.
> 
> Your ancestors worked for their society and not you. You didn't do anything to contribute. What you can be proud of is the society and other socities you lived in, because you're a contributing member. 
> 
> To make things clearer, think about this. Your ancestors slaughtered and enslaved people. Do you feel guilty all the time about being white? No? but why? I'm sure your answer would be "because I had nothing to do with it". Well, there you go. Being proud or "apathetic" (as you put it) are both equally dumb.


I am a direct contribution to the society they built, that is why you work for a better life so that you can pass your culture, values, experiences and everything else on to your offspring. You may call it luck or whatever but I am still proud lucky or not of being white and identifying with who I am and who my ancestors were. 

Just to be clear I do not believe my ancestors slaughtered or enslaved people. Not all white people owned slaves and conquered "savages".

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## Undercover

> *I am a direct contribution to the society they built*, *that is why you work for a better life so that you can pass your culture, values, experiences and everything else on to your offspring*. You may call it luck or whatever but I am still proud lucky or not of being white and identifying with who I am and who my ancestors were.


How? the society they built was passed on and no longer exists. If your offspring's generation makes all the wrong choices, their society would fall apart no matter how good their ancestors made it to be.

Imagine this. You are born into a rich family. Your father worked his ass off to get to where he is. Every year, your father gives you and your siblings tens of thousands of dollars. On your 18th birthday, you've saved up enough to buy a really expensive car. You drive around with your car all happy and proud.

In the above example, the only person that can be proud of his accomplishments is your father. You were born into a rich family, by luck. You are no better than any person out there who can't afford your car. You didn't work for it, so why are you proud? 

Your ancestors are your rich family. The society you live in is the money they left you. You don't get to be proud of that. Tell me, how did you contribute to something when you didn't even exist? 




> Just to be clear I do not believe my ancestors slaughtered or enslaved people. Not all white people owned slaves and conquered "savages".


Remember, you never claimed to be proud of your direct ancestors. You said you're proud of your race as a whole. That includes everyone with all their ups and downs. So why don't you feel guilty?

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## dangerous dan

Great thread, but its put a right downer on me.
im from england myself and where i live theres a big pakistani comunity. all what youve said is correct, personalyy i hate them there vile. bad attitudes and the most slimey things on earth, makes me sick, a local cafe stoped selling bacon sarnies other day because it was offending the fukkers. myself i think bnp will take over, in around 6years and when they do...let the fun begin :Big Grin:

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## MuscleScience

> How? the society they built was passed on and no longer exists. If your offspring's generation makes all the wrong choices, their society would fall apart no matter how good their ancestors made it to be.
> 
> Imagine this. You are born into a rich family. Your father worked his ass off to get to where he is. Every year, your father gives you and your siblings tens of thousands of dollars. On your 18th birthday, you've saved up enough to buy a really expensive car. You drive around with your car all happy and proud.
> 
> In the above example, the only person that can be proud of his accomplishments is your father. You were born into a rich family, by luck. You are no better than any person out there who can't afford your car. You didn't work for it, so why are you proud? 
> 
> Your ancestors are your rich family. The society you live in is the money they left you. You don't get to be proud of that. Tell me, how did you contribute to something when you didn't even exist? 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess your bound and determined to show me that being proud of who I am is dumb and I should be ashamed of the white race as a whole because some of its past is filled with murder, destruction, slavery and outright evilness. Which is all true of course I am certainly not proud of those things in the white race. And whether its luck or not that I was born white, I dont care I still am proud. 

Maybe saying I am proud of the whole white race is a bit to broad because I am not versed in all of Caucasian history , I should say more so that I am proud of my German Heritage more than anything. And yes we could go into German history too and pound me over the head with why I should be ashamed of that. Well to tell you the truth all that does sadden me greatly. 11 years, out of an entire history sure put a smear on things for Germany. I could dive into that all cultures around the world have slaughtered and enslaved their neighbors and or their own. But we all no that is fruitless and doesnt make right what white people have done to themselves or others in the past. 

I take personal responsibility for all of the white races short comings along with its triumphs when I say I am proud to be white whether is was a simple matter of luck or not.

----------


## Undercover

> I guess your bound and determined to show me that being proud of who I am is dumb *and I should be ashamed of the white race as a whole because some of its past is filled with murder, destruction, slavery and outright evilness*. Which is all true of course I am certainly not proud of those things in the white race. And whether its luck or not that I was born white, I dont care I still am proud. 
> 
> Maybe saying I am proud of the whole white race is a bit to broad because I am not versed in all of Caucasian history , I should say more so that I am proud of my German Heritage more than anything. And yes we could go into German history too and pound me over the head with why I should be ashamed of that. Well to tell you the truth all that does sadden me greatly. 11 years, out of an entire history sure put a smear on things for Germany. I could dive into that all cultures around the world have slaughtered and enslaved their neighbors and or their own. But we all no that is fruitless and doesnt make right what white people have done to themselves or others in the past. 
> 
> I take personal responsibility for all of the white races short comings along with its triumphs when I say I am proud to be white whether is was a simple matter of luck or not.


I never said you should be ashamed. In fact, i'm 100% against that. I was just trying to show how pointless it is to feel proud (or ashamed) about something you didn't help accomplish. My argument had nothing to do with race. I kind of drifted off-topic, I guess. 




> Great thread, but its put a right downer on me.
> im from england myself and where i live theres a big pakistani comunity. all what youve said is correct, personalyy i hate them there vile. bad attitudes and the most slimey things on earth, makes me sick, a local cafe stoped selling bacon sarnies other day because it was offending the fukkers. myself i think bnp will take over, in around 6years and when they do...let the fun begin


All Pakistanis where you live are vile, have bad attitudes, and are slimey? What a biological breakthrough! We should totally look for the 'evil gene' in their DNA. Honestly, stop making excuses for your racism. It probably only took 2 complaints for the cafe owner to stop selling bacon..afraid he'd lose customers. So who's at fault here? The whole Pakistani population or the cafe owner?

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## dangerous dan

i dont see myself rascist, they come and sponge off the systme, its a joke. pakistanies in there own contry are great. my grandad ect fought for this contry, this is the respect the government show

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## dangerous dan

i hate people who cant see whats hapening over here...undercover are you blind??

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## MuscleScience

> I never said you should be ashamed. In fact, i'm 100% against that. I was just trying to show how pointless it is to feel proud (or ashamed) about something you didn't help accomplish. My argument had nothing to do with race. I kind of drifted off-topic, I guess.



Isnt asking me why I dont feel guilty or why do I feel proud about something really the same think as asking why I am not ashamed.... :Wink/Grin:

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## Undercover

but you're only angry because they're brown and different.

there are white brits who do the same thing but you don't hate them, do you?




> pakistanies in there own contry are great


yeah, i mean as long as they're nowhere near you it's okay!

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## dangerous dan

wtf....white brits i have a view on them doing it actually, but they purposly come to sponge:S

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## MuscleScience

> but you're only angry because they're brown and different.
> 
> there are white brits who do the same thing but you don't hate them, do you?
> 
> 
> 
> *yeah, i mean as long as they're nowhere near you it's okay!*


Yeah I think that is where a lot of the anger and hatred comes from. Why do we have to be forced to live next to and many times pay for people that are not remotely like us, white or not. I mean I would be seriously pissed if my government let a bunch of french men role into town on government support and set up Little Paris in my neighborhood. Why do I have to then be tolerant of their views all of a sudden and pretend that I would also like to live in France. I cant stand the French, even if they are white....LOL

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## Undercover

> Isnt asking me why I dont feel guilty or why do I feel proud about something really the same think as asking why I am not ashamed....


Yes, but that wasn't my point. I was trying to show you how you should also feel ashamed if you feel proud (following your train of thought). With ups, there are downs. With pride, comes shame.

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## Flagg

> i dont see myself rascist, they come and sponge off the systme, its a joke. pakistanies in there own contry are great. my grandad ect fought for this contry, this is the respect the government show



You're not the only person who had relatives fight and die for their country and the reason they were fighting and dying was to rid the world of oppressive ideologies like the BNP. When I was born I was named after my Grandads brother that died during World War II and if some of these old fellas were alive today and could see the racial devide that continues to grow they'd probably wonder why the **** they bothered. 

People will abuse the system and will always abuse the system and it has nothing to do with colour. Or do you believe that the "slimey pakistanis" were responsible for the world recession as well. 

Generals, senators, oil magnates, politicians and computer billionaires. These are the people that are responsible for the world you and I live in today.

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## dangerous dan

i never said i were the only person:S.....they fought for this contry....this is no longer england, they would turn in there fukin graves....

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## MuscleScience

> Yes, but that wasn't my point. I was trying to show you how you should also feel ashamed if you feel proud (following your train of thought). With ups, there are downs. With pride, comes shame.


Yes I agree with pride comes shame. If you have too much shame then you are not proud. I think if you go back through a lot of my post you will see that I am the first one to point out shameful points in every argument. I know my racial shit dont stink, I know what whites have done to others which I am certainly not proud of. I also know what none whites have done to others as well. So in a sense I am ashamed of points in the past of the Human Race. However I am not ashamed to be human. Just so were are in agreement...LOL

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## Undercover

> Yeah I think that is where a lot of the anger and hatred comes from. Why do we have to be forced to live next to and many times pay for people that are not remotely like us, white or not. I mean I would be seriously pissed if my government let a bunch of french men role into town on government support and set up Little Paris in my neighborhood. Why do I have to then be tolerant of their views all of a sudden and pretend that I would also like to live in France. I cant stand the French, even if they are white....LOL


They're not invading your country. Your, mostly, WHITE government is letting them in. They're not setting all those ridiculous laws..your WHITE government is. But then people get all angry and start blaming the BROWN people. Why is that? Is it because of xenophobia? intolerance? It doesn't have to be about race. It's just fear of what's different. The wider the cultural gap, the more the fear.

If you let the French in because of whatever reasons, you have to expect a mini-Paris here and there. Adaptation is a slow process. Life is very different in France or Pakistan, why do you expect them to adapt so quickly to your culture? It's going to take time, but giving up to religious idiots doesn't help either.

It scares me when people start talking about mass eradication and express such violent ideas, all because they're angry a woman is wearing a burka somewhere in europe. Didn't we learn anything from WW2? 

This is what I call LATENT XENOPHOBIA (yes i'm coining my own terms now:P). People who are not that vocal about it, but make up excuses to jump on the hate wagon. Finally, when shit hits the fan it's that US against THEM stance.




> Yes I agree with pride comes shame. If you have too much shame then you are not proud. I think if you go back through a lot of my post you will see that I am the first one to point out shameful points in every argument. I know my racial shit dont stink, I know what whites have done to others which I am certainly not proud of. I also know what none whites have done to others as well. So in a sense I am ashamed of points in the past of the Human Race. However I am not ashamed to be human. Just so were are in agreement...LOL


haha, well I'm not ashamed nor proud about anything somebody else did when I wasn't alive.

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## MuscleScience

> They're not invading your country. Your, mostly, WHITE government is letting them in. They're not setting all those ridiculous laws..your WHITE government is. But then people get all angry and start blaming the BROWN people. Why is that? Is it because of xenophobia? intolerance? It doesn't have to be about race. It's just fear of what's different. The wider the cultural gap, the more the fear.
> 
> If you let the French in because of whatever reasons, you have to expect a mini-Paris here and there. Adaptation is a slow process. Life is very different in France or Pakistan, why do you expect them to adapt so quickly to your culture? It's going to take time, but giving up to religious idiots doesn't help either.
> 
> It scares me when people start talking about mass eradication and express such violent ideas, all because they're angry a woman is wearing a burka somewhere in europe. Didn't we learn anything from WW2? 
> 
> This is what I call LATENT XENOPHOBIA (yes i'm coining my own terms now:P). People who are not that vocal about it, but make up excuses to jump on the hate wagon. Finally, when shit hits the fan it's that US against THEM stance.
> 
> 
> ...


I can only really speak for myself on this one because I know at least here in the states the country was founded on immigration. So if someone comes here and is willing to follow the law and assimilate then who am I to say that they shouldnt be here to better their life. But I think what really pisses a lot of people off is that the mostly white government listens to the establishment an lets anyone and everyone into the country regardless if they are willing to be a functional member of society. I actually do not believe race plays a big role in America. I mean I as a white male I could not freely move into about 90% of the countries in this world and feel safe or become a welcomed part of society regardless of how hard I tried. I think Western European societys are the most tolerant in the world. You can argue they are not until your blue in the face but I do not see any other countries out there allowing the number of immigrants to influx into their country as Europe or the US is allowing.

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## energizer bunny

the way i see it is this......if your a foreigner in another country then you must obey the laws of that country....having a belief or a certain point of view is all well and good but when people try to push that down my neck..then thats not right......i wouldnt want or expect to be allowed to go to any country be it china....spain...afganistan etc.....and try and get laws..beliefs...ways of life to change to suit my needs.....

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## Undercover

> I can only really speak for myself on this one because I know at least here in the states the country was founded on immigration. So if someone comes here and is willing to follow the law and assimilate then who am I to say that they shouldnt be here to better their life. *But I think what really pisses a lot of people off is that the mostly white government listens to the establishment an lets anyone and everyone into the country regardless if they are willing to be a functional member of society.* I actually do not believe race plays a big role in America. I mean I as a white male I could not freely move into about 90% of the countries in this world and feel safe or become a welcomed part of society regardless of how hard I tried. *I think Western European societys are the most tolerant in the world. You can argue they are not until your blue in the face but I do not see any other countries out there allowing the number of immigrants to influx into their country as Europe or the US is allowing.*


Yes, I agree. They let people with practically no education in. Actually, I've lived in the Middle East my entire life and it's pretty hard for anyone there to get into the UK, even with an impressive resume.

I agree. I, myself, am a temporary immigrant in Germany. The people here are generally tolerant. I've never had anything bad happen to me that would suggest otherwise. 

I'm just talking about the people who call for extermination of a people who are different than they are, who start posting articles from THE DAILY MAIL (LOL) on internet forums (you know those horrible generalizations) in an attempt to feel better about their intolerance, and then expect you to believe they respect other cultures.

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## Matt

> the way i see it is this......if your a foreigner in another country then you must obey the laws of that country....having a belief or a certain point of view is all well and good but when people try to push that down my neck..then thats not right......i wouldnt want or expect to be allowed to go to any country be it china....spain...afganistan etc.....and try and get laws..beliefs...ways of life to change to suit my needs.....


I would agree with that....

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## Undercover

> I would agree with that....


But you guys are missing the point. A lot of Immigrants try to adapt. Those are blanket statements you're making.

And why direct your anger at immigrants when you know they're not the ones really making the changes?

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## energizer bunny

what dont you agree with in my statement.....so do you think that an individual or group of people should be able to change laws and regs because its in there beliefs or faith...

laws are laws.......this is a bit off topic but here it is.....in my local shoping centre young people are not allowed to wear there hoods up...and i agree with that but then muslim woman should not be allowed to wear there burkas....am i wrong in thinking that??

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## MuscleScience

> Yes, I agree. They let people with practically no education in. Actually, I've lived in the Middle East my entire life and it's pretty hard for anyone there to get into the UK, even with an impressive resume.
> 
> I agree. I, myself, am a temporary immigrant in Germany. The people here are generally tolerant. I've never had anything bad happen to me that would suggest otherwise. 
> 
> I'm just talking about the people who call for extermination of a people who are different than they are, who start posting articles from THE DAILY MAIL (LOL) on internet forums (you know those horrible generalizations) in an attempt to feel better about their intolerance, and then expect you to believe they respect other cultures.


I really do not think anyone is preaching destroying a whole people. That is simply crazy and 99% of practically anyone no matter how racially proud they are would not preach that either. I see what your saying though. You call it Xenophobia but to a lot of people it is a very real feeling to them. Not so much that they are in hate of another race. Its that they are in fear of what the future brings for them and those like them. Change is not easy for people to handle and people fear the unknown. Certainly no one knows the future thus a lot of people fear it. 

BTW, how do you like Germany, I should hopefully be there in a year.

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## Flagg

Lets get one thing straight, articles pulled from a rag like The Mail, The Sun, The Telegraph and so are to be taken with a massive pinch of salt. About the only Newspaper I have time for is The Guardian. 

As for foreigners adapting...well yes I think they should but it's not as simple as that. Say you found yourself, for whatever reason, living in somewhere like Iran or Afghanistan. You would hate to adapt to that way of life. Yeah im sure you can counter that with "i wouldn't go there in the first place" but you have to remember, that people from those parts of the world come to the West to escape that horror. It should make them more willing to adapt but it's hard to simply obey and shut up. It's the politically correct *****footing about that has made the whole thing with foreigners such an issue. It will be some politician, or MP, making a name for themselves, trying to get more votes from minority groups, who bring up these ridiculous laws and claims. I have to say i have never once met a islamic person that has told me that nursey rhymes are offensive, that pigs and dogs are offensive, its always in a news article you hear of these things. 

Does that not tell anyone here anything?

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## Undercover

> what dont you agree with in my statement.....so do you think that an individual or group of people should be able to change laws and regs because its in there beliefs or faith...


The thing is nobody is trying to force beliefs on you. That's what the BNP and shitty newspapers want you to believe. It's the politicians making those changes not the immigrants.




> laws are laws.......this is a bit off topic but here it is.....in my local shoping centre young people are not allowed to wear there hoods up...and i agree with that but then muslim woman should not be allowed to wear there burkas....am i wrong in thinking that??


Well, it's a bit different. Those women in their burkas fully believe they cannot consummate their religion without wearing them. Are you seriously comparing teenagers' rights to wear their hoods up to that?

Having said that, I'm against religion, religious symbols, ideas and all that crap. But I can't run around forcing christians to take their crosses off and stripping down muslim women. 




> BTW, how do you like Germany, I should hopefully be there in a year.


It's been a fun ride so far. Where are you going to stay? PM me if you need any help. 




> I have to say i have never once met a islamic person that has told me that nursey rhymes are offensive, that pigs and dogs are offensive, its always in a news article you hear of these things.
> 
> Does that not tell anyone here anything?


That's not true! It's a documented well-known fact that all muslims hate animals and freedom!

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## energizer bunny

> The thing is nobody is trying to force beliefs on you. That's what the BNP and shitty newspapers want you to believe. It's the politicians making those changes not the immigrants.
> 
> *well i would never want the BNP in power and i dont read newspapers very often...(just for sport)......and your totaly wrong about people trying to force beliefs on you/me.....that is one thing done by every single religion and political party....*Well, it's a bit different. Those women in their burkas fully believe they cannot consummate their religion without wearing them. Are you seriously comparing teenagers' rights to wear their hoods up to that?
> 
> *Yes i am.....the reason behind the ban of hoodys is so that people can see there faces.....wey i cant see whos under that burka....a rule/law is there for everyone regardless of religious beliefs.....*
> 
> Having said that, I'm against religion, religious symbols, ideas and all that crap. But I can't run around forcing christians to take their crosses off and stripping down muslim women. 
> 
> *Im the opposite...im not against religious symbols...im against them breaking laws/rules.... (a bit off topic again but here we go....when on holiday in Spain and Greece you are not allowed to take your T-shirt off at night...doesnt matter about anything else what you believe in etc etc....its not allowed!!) and if thats what they want then who am i to argue?*
> ...


*And all Animals deserve to be hated because they do not believe in wiping there own arses*

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## Undercover

> a rule/law is there for everyone regardless of religious beliefs


That's true, but it shouldn't interfere with their beliefs either. Wearing a cross around your neck isn't required of you for you to be a Christian. You can take off your cross and still be one. A bukra is a bit different. This woman feels she can't be a Muslim without her burka, it's against her religion (even though some Muslims might disagree) not to wear one. So when you tell her, take off your burka or you don't get in..it's really like saying stop being a Muslim or you can't shop here. It's the equivalent of a Christian having to sign a paper that denies Jesus Christ is his savior. 

Logically speaking you're right. Everyone should fall under the same set of laws regardless of their beliefs. Unfortunately, that's not the world we live in. Injustice is happening everywhere because of religion. It intrigues me; however, how people only look at the Muslim side of injustice. Maybe because it's the most vocal one? I don't know. All I know is that, while a woman in burka is shopping illegally in your local mall, thousands of Africans are dying daily of HIV and AIDS because the pope keeps denying them shipments of condoms. How's that for forcing your beliefs on someone? but no, the pope is not brown and muslim...no reason to get angry.

You can't really reason with religious beliefs, because they're not really reasonable. That's why we have to make sacrifices all the time to please people who believe in fairy tales. She believes she needs to wear a burka to please Allah, he believes that a "cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father that can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree" told him that abstinence is the only way to stop the spread of HIV. 

It's us atheists who should be complaining really. We live in a religious world; that's lots of BS to put up with to keep others happy.

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## energizer bunny

you see we could go on all day.....i think the law is above religious belief no matter what.....and it should most definately interfere with beliefs if that belief is not following the rules.....no one is telling anyone to stop being Muslim..we are telling them not to cover there face...they should adapt to that law simple...

If your in a Christian country you should adapt to there ways....if you are a Christian in a Muslim country you should adapt to their ways.....

maybe you could answer a question for me??
If a woman..any religion and from any country...went to a muslim country would they have to cover up?? could they ware a mini skirt or shorts?

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## Undercover

> no one is telling anyone to stop being Muslim..we are telling them not to cover there face...they should adapt to that law simple...


I told you, it's against their religion. So its either pleasing God or you.

Let me remind you, the US is not a Christian nation. You don't have to adapt to Christian values if you live in the US.




> maybe you could answer a question for me??
> If a woman..any religion and from any country...went to a muslim country would they have to cover up?? could they ware a mini skirt or shorts?


In most Muslim countries, women aren't required to cover up. They are allowed to wear bikinis on beaches and mini skirts on the street. It's normal.

Look at this video of a Shia Muslim singer in Lebanon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGxm_xANs6M no burka there

But to answer your question, no. Women won't be able to pull that off in Iran, for example. What's your point though?

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## energizer bunny

we will get no where with this debate.....we are looking at this in different ways....i dont think that religion should be able to dictate the laws/rules of a country........you think that their relgious views should be taken into consideration regarding certain rules and laws.....??



please explain why women could not pull that off in Iran?

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## Undercover

> *i dont think that religion should be able to dictate the laws/rules of a country*........*you think that their relgious views should be taken into consideration regarding certain rules and laws*.....??


Me neither. 

No I don't, but the reality is that they are. We are governed by religious views and values all the time. Why else would abortion be illegal? (Women can get an abortion in Islam, by the way) The bigger your religion, the bigger your political influence, the more beliefs you're going to force on people.

Imagine a religion that forces its followers to wear alien masks at all times..if they ever want to be rescued by alien lord Xunu, that is. With enough support, they can force your local mall to allow people wearing alien masks in. That's just it, no matter how ridiculous and uncaring your beliefs are, what matters is how big and popular you are.




> please explain why women could not pull that off in Iran?


Iran is an Islamic theocracy. There's no respect for anything outside of Islam there. Citizens of Iran do think differently though. I met a lot of Iranian students at my university. All their women are smoking hot, and they all can't seem to wait to take their hijab off and put on their tight jeans once they get on German soil.

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## Flagg

> Me neither. 
> 
> No I don't, but the reality is that they are. We are governed by religious views and values all the time. Why else would abortion be illegal? (Women can get an abortion in Islam, by the way) The bigger your religion, the bigger your political influence, the more beliefs you're going to force on people.
> 
> Imagine a religion that forces its followers to wear alien masks at all times..if they ever want to be rescued by alien lord Xunu, that is. With enough support, they can force your local mall to allow people wearing alien masks in. That's just it, no matter how ridiculous and uncaring your beliefs are, what matters is how big and popular you are.
> 
> 
> 
> Iran is an Islamic theocracy. There's no respect for anything outside of Islam there. Citizens of Iran do think differently though. I met a lot of Iranian students at my university. All their women are smoking hot, and they all can't seem to wait to take their hijab off and put on their tight jeans once they get on German soil.



Cant argue there mate. I know a few birds at Uni that are Iranian, Moroccan and they are ridiculously hot.

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## energizer bunny

anyway this has been interesting.........i dont normaly get into these threads because everyone has strong views and plenty to say......and a debate could go on all week...

so ill bow out now......cheers.

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## Panzerfaust

> Some many wrong things posted in this thread. I don't even know where to start.
> 
> 
> 
> wow that was very xenophobic and close-minded.
> 
> You don't realise that you're just as bad as the muslims who want to be treated differently. Both sides have to work for integration to happen. 
> 
> The things mentioned in the articles you posted, true or not, are horrible. I'm pretty sure, though, that most muslims in the UK have no idea. So why get angry and start calling people scum and pleading for mass eradication? Dangerous way of thinking. Nazis had that very same idea about Jews. THEY'RE TAKING OVER! OH GOD SOMEONE STOP THEM! and I guess we all know how that story ended.



Ok, I would like to see how you would react for a family of Muslims to move into your house and start pushing their Sharia horseshit on you....oh I bet you would just love that shit wouldn't you?

This whole world is a ***** basket, minus maybe the Asian countries. Who let's foreign scum come in and literally change your way of life? lol

It's not as if these Muslims move to the UK and want to assimilate into English culture, no they want to move there and infest it with their bullshit ideology.

Big difference there, sorry you fail to see that.


The English are completely spineless and are enjoying taking it in the ass by these sand eating ****s.


I have no problem with their religion or how they treat each other, it is their religion and I respect that. Just keep it over there in that pile of ****ing sand in the Middle East.

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## Panzerfaust

> Great thread, but its put a right downer on me.
> im from england myself and where i live theres a big pakistani comunity. all what youve said is correct, personalyy i hate them there vile. bad attitudes and the most slimey things on earth, makes me sick,* a local cafe stoped selling bacon sarnies other day because it was offending the fukkers*. myself i think bnp will take over, in around 6years and when they do...let the fun begin



I rest my case!

Tons of that shit going on.

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## Undercover

> Ok, I would like to see how you would react for a family of Muslims to move into your house and start pushing their Sharia horseshit on you....oh I bet you would just love that shit wouldn't you?
> 
> This whole world is a ***** basket, minus maybe the Asian countries. Who let's *foreign scum* come in and literally change your way of life? lol
> 
> It's not as if these Muslims move to the UK and want to assimilate into English culture, *no they want to move there and infest it with their bullshit ideology.*
> 
> Big difference there, sorry you fail to see that.
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for proving my point. If you go over the thread, you will see what I mean. You really just need an excuse to hate people whose culture is different...especially Muslims, now that everybody is *nearly* over Jews and all. If that weren't true, your poor insults and mad generalizations wouldn't have been there. All point to extreme islamophobia btw.I especially liked the one about the ME being a pile of sand. Have ever even been there? What amazes me is that you're not even directly affected by this, and yet you're determined to think Muslims are planning world domination. 

I will not argue with you. Arguing with intolerant bigots leads to nowhere. But good luck finding a way to deal with your anger, because European Muslims are going nowhere.

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## dangerous dan

> Thank you for proving my point. If you go over the thread, you will see what I mean. You really just need an excuse to hate people whose culture is different...especially Muslims, now that everybody is *nearly* over Jews and all. If that weren't true, your poor insults and mad generalizations wouldn't have been there. All point to extreme islamophobia btw.I especially liked the one about the ME being a pile of sand. Have ever even been there? What amazes me is that you're not even directly affected by this, and yet you're determined to think Muslims are planning world domination. 
> 
> I will not argue with you. Arguing with intolerant bigots leads to nowhere. But good luck finding a way to deal with your anger, because European Muslims are going nowhere.


your an idiot, we dont hate other peoples cultures, we just dont like them trying to force it on us, or change ours.... wake up!!!

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## Undercover

> your an idiot, we dont hate other peoples cultures, we just dont like them trying to force it on us, or change ours.... wake up!!!


You're *generalizing* because you're islamophobic looking for excuses to hate Muslims. 

Tell me, how many Muslims do you know? Nobody is trying to force beliefs on you. There are bigots in every culture, and you sir are one of them.  :Wink: 




> The Runnymede report identified eight perceptions related to Islamophobia:
> 
> 1. Islam is seen as a monolithic *bloc, static and unresponsive to change*.
> 2. It is seen *as separate and "other.*" It does not have values in common with other cultures, is not affected by them and does not influence them.
> 3. It is seen as inferior to the West. *It is seen as barbaric, irrational, primitive, and sexist.*
> 4. It is *seen as violent, aggressive,* threatening, supportive of terrorism, and engaged in a clash of civilizations.
> 5. It is *seen as a political ideology*, used for political or military advantage.
> 6. Criticisms made of "the West" by Muslims are rejected out of hand.
> 7. Hostility towards Islam is used to justify discriminatory practices towards Muslims and exclusion of Muslims from mainstream society.
> 8. *Anti-Muslim hostility is seen as natural and normal*


Yup, that pretty much covers you both (and a few other idiots) that posted in this thread.

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## thegodfather

> You're *generalizing* because you're islamophobic looking for excuses to hate Muslims. 
> 
> Tell me, how many Muslims do you know? Nobody is trying to force beliefs on you. There are bigots in every culture, and you sir are one of them. 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, that pretty much covers you both (and a few other idiots) that posted in this thread.


So if they had not used derrogatory remarks then they would not be guilty of 'islamophobia'. That's a funny word, sounds like something liberals invented. Kinda like the neo-cons that invented "Islamofascistextremism." That's another bullshit word. 

I don't see anything wrong with saying that immigrant cultures should assimilate into the culture of the land they're living in. The most notable aggravation would be those that fail to learn the language. I certainly don't think Americans should ever have to "Push 1 for English." There was in fact a prominent article about how Mexican immigrants are vehemently against assimilating as a whole. I am just weary of labeling people as you have done above, because often it turns into "I'm calling you a name because I dont agree with your politics/position/policy." For instance, Neo-cons calling people who disagree with foreign wars "unamerican," and liberals labeling people who oppose Barack Obama as President as "racists & bigots." 

I personally don't like to use derogatory remarks when engaging in an argument, it makes the argument much less credible. However, there is certainly documented evidence of immigrant cultures resisting assimilation in their new home country, and that is definitely a problem.

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## D7M

Good post GodFather. 

Undercover....are you surreptitiously BuffedGuy? He used to throw around that Islmaphobe crap all the time, too.

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## Flagg

Whoever Undercover is, I surely would like to know who is in that avy of his. Hypnotic..

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## Matt

There should be some kind of exam that these people should sit after they have been in our country for a set period of time, it should be and english speaking exam..

Im sick to death of these people making no effort to learn our language and while i welcome them over here they must learn our ways and adapt to them...

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## Undercover

> *So if they had not used derrogatory remarks then they would not be guilty of 'islamophobia'. That's a funny word, sounds like something liberals invented. Kinda like the neo-cons that invented "Islamofascistextremism." That's another bullshit word*. 
> 
> *I don't see anything wrong with saying that immigrant cultures should assimilate into the culture of the land they're living in. The most notable aggravation would be those that fail to learn the language. I certainly don't think Americans should ever have to "Push 1 for English." There was in fact a prominent article about how Mexican immigrants are vehemently against assimilating as a whole*. I am just weary of labeling people as you have done above, because often it turns into "I'm calling you a name because I dont agree with your politics/position/policy." For instance, Neo-cons calling people who disagree with foreign wars "unamerican," and liberals labeling people who oppose Barack Obama as President as "racists & bigots." 
> 
> *I personally don't like to use derogatory remarks when engaging in an argument, it makes the argument much less credible*. However, *there is certainly documented evidence of immigrant cultures resisting assimilation in their new home country, and that is definitely a problem.*


Perceptions of Islamophobia were in my last post (they don't include overuse of petty insults). 

Islamophobia is just a newly coined term for islamic culture-specific xenophobia. Just because they have a term for it now doesn't mean it's 'those damn liberals' who did it, and it certainly doesn't make it any less real..xenophobia isn't made up. So, I don't see why you're pissed with me using the term.

For the second bolded part, you have to read what I said in the thread. Never claimed immigrants shouldn't adapt, actually I said the exact opposite and made some pretty good points that they seemed to ignore.

I never doubted certain immigrants have trouble integrating; it's only natural. Generalizations and 'demonization' of immigrants is not helping though. I don't know of any Muslim that cringes when he heards the word 'pig'.

Degratory remarks? So you think someone who supports the BNP and thinks all immigrants should be eradicated isn't a bigot? If you think I used the word 'bigot' to strengthen my argument, you're way off. Do me a favor and read my thread. I only said I wouldn't argue anymore because I kept getting the same bigotry over and over. That is, after all, the definition of a bigot.




> Good post GodFather.
> 
> Undercover....are you surreptitiously BuffedGuy? He used to throw around that Islmaphobe crap all the time, too.


No, don't know the guy. 

Would you be happy if I start using "islam-specific xenophobia" instead? You guys are funny.

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## Undercover

> Whoever Undercover is, I surely would like to know who is in that avy of his. Hypnotic..


That, my friend, is Regina Spektor aka musical songwriting genius.

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## Flagg

> That, my friend, is Regina Spektor aka musical songwriting genius.


She's beautiful. Im just listening to a song of hers now. She reminds me of Tori Amos.

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## Panzerfaust

> Thank you for proving my point. If you go over the thread, you will see what I mean. You really just need an excuse to hate people whose culture is different...especially Muslims, now that everybody is *nearly* over Jews and all. If that weren't true, your poor insults and mad generalizations wouldn't have been there. All point to extreme islamophobia btw.I especially liked the one about the ME being a pile of sand. Have ever even been there? What amazes me is that you're not even directly affected by this, and yet you're determined to think Muslims are planning world domination. 
> 
> I will not argue with you. Arguing with intolerant bigots leads to nowhere. But good luck finding a way to deal with your anger, because European Muslims are going nowhere.




Nope, I am not arguing with anyone let alone you. You were never considered someone with enough common sense to communicate with. Move along sheep!

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## Panzerfaust

> your an idiot, we dont hate other peoples cultures, we just dont like them trying to force it on us, or change ours.... wake up!!!


Don't waste your breath, these types are so blind they cannot even begin to comprehend what we are truly trying to say so they stick to the "you hate an entire race", "racist" bla bla bla

Sure, I use harsh words but these are harsh times and some asses need kicked. It's not a pretty job but someone certainly needs to do it and do it quickly and thoroughly.

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## Undercover

> That, my friend, is Regina Spektor aka musical songwriting genius.
> She's beautiful. Im just listening to a song of hers now. She reminds me of Tori Amos.
> Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message


You'd probably find the more commercial ones on youtube, but really some of her songs are pure GENIUS.

like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ITvucG6hjM

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## Flagg

Getting back on topic, im beginning to lose faith in human society in general.

Take this thread for example. When we're not bickering about "the alien", we're bickering about each other. Yeah, when there isn't a foreigner to argue with, we just argue with the next better thing...ourselves. 

We are totally incapable of working together for the good of all and it boils down to "Im right, you're wrong so **** off" attitude and everyone in this thread has been guilty of it.

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## Undercover

I think we should all just agree that I'm right and everybody else is wrong.

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## Flagg

> You'd probably find the more commercial ones on youtube, but really some of her songs are pure GENIUS.
> 
> like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ITvucG6hjM



Im really digging her stuff. Cant believe ive never encountered her before. AND she's absolutely stunning! Win win.

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## Panzerfaust

> Getting back on topic, im beginning to lose faith in human society in general.
> 
> Take this thread for example. When we're not bickering about "the alien", we're bickering about each other. Yeah, when there isn't a foreigner to argue with, we just argue with the next better thing...ourselves. 
> 
> We are totally incapable of working together for the good of all and it boils down to "Im right, you're wrong so **** off" attitude and everyone in this thread has been guilty of it.



I'm only against filthy scum mother****ers who invade a land and expect that land to bow to their ways. **** that!

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## Flagg

> I'm only against filthy scum mother****ers who invade a land and expect that land to bow to their ways. **** that!


Yeah, like the US and the UK does in the Middle East. 

We're all guilty of the same crimes on this planet, regardless of what colour our skin is or what superstition is the gospel.

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## Undercover

I bet muriloninja is pro-israel. That would be really funny.

Immigrants are called immigrants for a reason. They never invaded the land they're in.

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## Flagg

> I bet muriloninja is pro-israel. That would be really funny.
> 
> Immigrants are called immigrants for a reason. They never invaded the land they're in.



Nah he's not. You'll find he hates everyone, the ole ray of sunshine that he is.  :LOL:

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## Undercover

> Yeah, like the US and the UK does in the Middle East. 
> 
> We're all guilty of the same crimes on this planet, regardless of what colour our skin is or what superstition is the gospel.


Flagg stop being so damn nice :P. You come off as a well-rounded guy. I'm sure you don't think immigrants are '"invaders" planning to take over Europe. Thoughts like that are ridiculous. We need to be discouraging bigots not encouraging them.

*To muriloninja: (this is me being really nice and summarizing some of the things i said before in this thread)*

First, it's not arguing when your source of info is a newspaper that makes up stories to sell and the BNP. Nobody in their right mind would take those sources seriously. 

Second, you never once provided a logical solution to integration problems. Holocaust nr.2? Ain't gunna happen. You only said some people need their asses kicked. Well, why don't you kick the asses of the people who change the laws, and the local cafes that sell your freedom for more Muslim customers and actually make a difference? Surely, they are more at fault? But no, instead you target your anger towards what's different...easy scapegoats..that's what I meant when I said you're xenophobic.

You're generalizing that every Muslim immigrant is a bigot that wants to force his beliefs on Western culture. That is simply NOT the case. That's how you're a bigot. You're not listening to anything I have to say. You're very much convinced that immigrants are evil and need to be wiped off the face of Europe. 

If you want to explain how all Muslim immigrants are innately evil, I'd be happy to listen.

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## MuscleScience

> So if they had not used derrogatory remarks then they would not be guilty of 'islamophobia'. That's a funny word, sounds like something liberals invented. Kinda like the neo-cons that invented "Islamofascistextremism." That's another bullshit word. 
> 
> I don't see anything wrong with saying that immigrant cultures should assimilate into the culture of the land they're living in. The most notable aggravation would be those that fail to learn the language. I certainly don't think Americans should ever have to "Push 1 for English." There was in fact a prominent article about how Mexican immigrants are vehemently against assimilating as a whole. I am just weary of labeling people as you have done above, because often it turns into "I'm calling you a name because I dont agree with your politics/position/policy." For instance, Neo-cons calling people who disagree with foreign wars "unamerican," and liberals labeling people who oppose Barack Obama as President as "racists & bigots." 
> 
> I personally don't like to use derogatory remarks when engaging in an argument, it makes the argument much less credible. *However, there is certainly documented evidence of immigrant cultures resisting assimilation in their new home country, and that is definitely a problem.*



Yeah look at the white immigrants that the Mexican Government let move freely and without restrictions into Texas. That didnt turn out so well for Mexico, prime example of what can happens if a new population does not assimilate.

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## Panzerfaust

> *Yeah, like the US and the UK does in the Middle East.* 
> We're all guilty of the same crimes on this planet, regardless of what colour our skin is or what superstition is the gospel.


Yeah, no shit! I hear you, this American Empire must end...history already shows us that it will end as no Empire has ever lasted. America is nothing more than the modern day Rome.

We should never have invaded the Middle East, that is their land and culture and they can respectfully have it.

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## dangerous dan

undercover on a erlier post u asked how many muslims i no....ino thousands. I somtimes nip in thee odd shop in an asian comunity for some cigs ....they look at me as if im shit, find it funny but at the same time find it disgustin, and do you not think they all walk around white bastardd this white bastard that??? they think they rule the place....well its not going to fly, this contry was build be good people, then filth come over just to sponge and try and change how we live, well ffuk thattttt. if i had my own way the lot would be out, there not doing british people any favours....we have people fighting for homes ect, because all the asians are geting 1st choice its disgusting....

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## dangerous dan

not so long ago...few months back, a muslim worked in a supermarket...he was made move alcohol around ect, he quit is job and tried suing ......whats all that about then????

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## Matt

I was in Bradford last week at this dudes house (black guy) and hung up was a t-shirt with a green union jack, in the middle of it it said Britistan. He said all the asians are wearing them and they believe that one day this country will be theirs. I would normaly laugh at this but to be honest, its looking more and more like thats exactly whats happening...

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## dangerous dan

you no what, i think its vile. its even worse when some muppit (undercover) is making out were talking shit, telling you that^^^ what 007s just said, is true they think this will be theres soon, its disgusting. stupid were at war with these contries iraq ect, and half of them are walking our streets!!! i wish they would all just fuk straight off

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