# STEROIDS FORUM > SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators) Information Forum >  What type of antihistamine works with clen?

## Jollitoo

Qualified answers only please!
Does any antihistamine work to upregulate the receptors? Im thinking of using loratidine, zyrlex, or claritine which are 2nd gen antihistamines. 

Or does only ketotifen and benadryl work? Do they have some unique property that other histamine dont?

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## newbie56

I have been using clen on and off for years. I have always used benadryl to upregulate my receptors and have had sucess but most seem to think ketotifen is much more effective. I have limited access to ketotifen and benadryl has always worked great for me but this is only my personal experience. 
If you are looking for the actual science behind it you can find plenty of info just searching ketotifen or benadryl on this site bro!

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## Mr.Rose

Well you are correct in stating that it is a second-generation H1-antihistamine but ketotifen has the benefit over other 2nd gen H1-Antihistamines as it is a strong mast cell stabilizer.

You see loratadine is a tricyclic antihistamine, which selectively antagonizes peripheral histamine receptors, unlike Ketotifen whech upregulates adrenergic receptors due to is effective ability to cause phosphodiesterase inhibition, which causes the up regulation of the beta-2 receptors.

From my research non of the other antihistamines do this, and as a note, Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL) DOES NOT upregulated your receptors. That is a common mistake that needs to be addressed in this websites steroid profiles. Ketotifen however is the only H1-Antihistamien that causes phosphodiesterase inhibition, and as to date the only that i know of that will upregulate your receptors.

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## Mr.Rose

Also, Claritine is the brand name for a Anti-alergy drug that contain loratidine, so loratidine and claritine are the same drug. Also Zyrlex is another brand that uses the antihistamine cetirizine. None of these to my knowledge will upregulate your beta-2 receptors.

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## newbie56

lol I stand corrected with bendadry, thanks!

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## Jollitoo

Big thanks for the educated answer

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## RoadToRecovery

> From my research non of the other antihistamines do this, and as a note, Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL) DOES NOT upregulated your receptors. That is a common mistake that needs to be addressed in this websites steroid profiles. Ketotifen however is the only H1-Antihistamien that causes phosphodiesterase inhibition, and as to date the only that i know of that will upregulate your receptors.


Do a little bit more research. 





> Benadryl is sold as an anti-histimine in the United States, and/or a sleep aid elsewhere in the world. However, Beta receptors are embedded in the cell's outer phospholipid membrane. The stability of the membrane has a lot to do with the proper function of the receptors. Methylation of the phospholipids is stimulated by the binding of beta agonists to their receptors. Methylated phospholipids are foreign to the body, and when the body recognizes them as foreign, it breaks them down with phospholipase A2. This changes the structure of the outer membrane which results in desensitizaton of the beta receptors. On the other hand, agents that inhibit phospholipase A2 slow desensitization
> 
> Cationic ampiphylic drugs are known for their ability to inhibit phospholipase A2. Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is a cationic ampiphylic drug.





> Ergo, Benadryl slows desensitization of Beta receptors (i.e. Upgrades them) by inhibiting phospholipase A2, which is the enzyme that breaks down methylated phospholipids, and this action in turn keeps the phospholipid membrane stable, and thus keeps the receptors functioning properly.
> Reference:


Prog Clin Biol Res. 1981;63:383-8.
Phospholipid methylation: a possible mechanism of signal transduction across biomembranes.
Hirata F, Tallman JF, Henneberry RC, Mallorga P, Strittmatter WJ, Axelrod J"

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## RoadToRecovery

> Qualified answers only please!


Haha if I had seen this initially I would not have posted. Qualified answer  :LOL: 
What the hell does that even mean. Open a friggin book and do your own research if you want a an answer that is "qualified"

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## Mr.Rose

Did i not mention that those steroid profiles need to be updated? And i quote "That is a common mistake that needs to be addressed in this websites steroid profiles."

This topic has already been discussed to death with members of this forum with a large amount of human biological and physiological knowledge, for e.g Phate, MuscleScience and Swifto, have all stated that the science behind benadryl is false and those steroid profiles need to be changed.

I will refere you to my previous thread on the subject matter:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=417722

I'm not attacking you RoadToRecovery, but please research multiple sources before making a claim, because this is science, and science always contradicts itself. So obtaining an answer from a variety of sources with the same general consensus is much more reliable then one source.

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## Mr.Rose

Also here is a must reach thread by our very knowledgeable VET Ronnie Rowland:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=380366

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## RoadToRecovery

This isnt from the profile... this is from the actual study that I posted.

No doubt ronnie knows his shit and his sling shot approach is definitely impressive, but unless you have a study dedicated to the instance of upregulation... I still stand that benadryl is effective. I personally have used benadryl and felt a difference. The only true way to upregulate receptors totally is by cessation of clenbuterol intake entirely.

I know a thing or 2 about science myself... I have about 3 studies dedicated to this topic. Ill post them shortly.

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## RoadToRecovery

Also... if you notice, only 2 instances were cited against benadryl, and both were from 2 vets from that thread. One which is from the very credible ronnie rowland and the other is from the discredited Anthony Roberts. None of which were backed by any study.

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## Mr.Rose

Firstly let me state that this thread is in no way an argument, but a scientific debate, where i would like to draw to a correct conclusion based on feasible data. I am neither for or against either drug, as i would like to finally get this matter sorted.

I tried to access the study that you provided, which i have only seen in the clenbutarol profile on this site, if you may can you provide a full study so that i can look over it.

My problem with Diphenhydramine HCL is that i cannot see the science how it acts as a beta-2 adrengenic receptor antagonist. Beta 2 receptors do not operate though methylation of phosopholipids, but through G-s transmembrane protein receptors, i believe that study has either been misinterpreted or mistaken, so please provide me with the full study, and do not falsely fall for the idea proposed by one study, as history has shown, study's come out all the time that contradict themselves, so pelase provide multiple sources, not just one.

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## RoadToRecovery

> Firstly let me state that this thread is in no way an argument, but a scientific debate, where i would like to draw to a correct conclusion based on feasible data. I am neither for or against either drug, as i would like to finally get this matter sorted.
> 
> I tried to access the study that you provided, which i have only seen in the clenbutarol profile on this site, if you may can you provide a full study so that i can look over it.
> 
> My problem with Diphenhydramine HCL is that i cannot see the science how it acts as a beta-2 adrengenic receptor antagonist. Beta 2 receptors do not operate though methylation of phosopholipids, but through G-s transmembrane protein receptors, i believe that study has either been misinterpreted or mistaken, so please provide me with the full study, and do not falsely fall for the idea proposed by one study, as history has shown, study's come out all the time that contradict themselves, so pelase provide multiple sources, not just one.


Its not that a study comes through as contradictory - but that the grounds of the study is not of a specifying circumstance. I only have portions of this specific study from a discussion that I had a very long time ago. If I find the complete study again I will refer it again. However, on the flip side, you have a point that studies contradict other studies... but do you have a study that contradicts the fact that diphenhydramine is cationic drug that does in fact up regulate receptors? 

Also - I made a mistake regarding my claims about the studies of diphenhydramine and upregulation of receptors. I misrepresented them. The studies I have are in reference to the fact that it IS a cationic ampiphylic drug and its effects elsewhere.

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## Walnutz

Isn't there another thread about this.......

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...fen%2Fbenadryl

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## RoadToRecovery

I dunno... is there?

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## Mr.Rose

See thats the thing, i cant find any articles and studies that shows that cationic ampiphylic drugs in general cause the resensitisation of beta-2 adrenergic receptors. I'll try look deeper though and post back. 

Yeh there are plenty of threads on it, but we want to end it, and finally see which drug does what.

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## Jollitoo

I'm following this intensely and look forward to your conclusions. 
Although I would like to contribute I'm limited to the field of economics regarding research, and could after extensive googling not find an answer  :Smilie:

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## Walnutz

I'll stick with ketotifen. Benadryl seems to have some sort of adverse effect where I get shaken leg syndrome. Drives me nuts.

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## Tyler694

Maybe it's a placebo effect, but benadryl seems to work for me.. :S

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## Okinawa_Power

Any sleep aid......

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## BeefyKane

> Qualified answers only please!
> Does any antihistamine work to upregulate the receptors? Im thinking of using loratidine, zyrlex, or claritine which are 2nd gen antihistamines. 
> 
> Or does only ketotifen and benadryl work? Do they have some unique property that other histamine dont?


The antihistamine you are looking for is called Diphenylhydramine. This suppresses "phospholipase A2", which downregulates (makes less of) the receptor, making clen more effective.

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## Bonaparte

> The antihistamine you are looking for is called Diphenylhydramine. This suppresses "phospholipase A2", which downregulates (makes less of) the receptor, making clen more effective.


1) You're wrong. Only Ketotifen is shown to have this effect.
2) This thread is 5 years old.

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