# MEMBERS EXPERIENCES > OVER 40 FORUM >  You do not need to squat! Leg presses only

## ergo

You do not need to squat! Leg press only.
Here you go. I posted this in another section. Rattles the squataholics. They unite and chant "you must squat, you must squat" causes a release of hormones, good for making my arms grow blah, blah, blah. I'm closing in on 46 years of life. 3 severly ruptured disc. Broke my left knee cap in 2 places 3.5 years ago. When the cast came off I had a withered 23" left leg. All I can do for quads is leg press, nothing else. It has been that way for 10+ years. My legs have never looked better. I'm a classic ectomorph with bad genetics. I never train uncovered. People never see my legs. They have observed me training them. Occasionnaly I show up in shorts. Just to ease their curiosity. I wrote this to explain to an interested party on how I train. Yes leg presses only. Im 6' tall 232 in one photo with supplementation and nutrition not an immediate concern (off season). 220 in the other photo supplementation and nutrition spot on. 10 weeks seperate one look from the other. Don't despair if you can't squat and please do not give up. I have high adductor tie-ins and high calfs.

Due to my back injury and diagnosed tendonitis in both knees, I start my quadriceps training with the back pad of the leg press machine upright in the 90-degree position. This allows me to keep my back perfectly flat, and I can generate the most power from this angle. My feet are placed high and wide. I consider this to be my power position (power stance), utilizing not only my quadriceps but also my hamstrings, glutes and adductor muscles. Im not trying to directly stress any particular area of the quadriceps. I want total area development. Remember, though, that leg pressing is primarily considered a quadriceps movement. I allow my knees to track outward toward my armpits when the weight is descending, while I keep my back flat against the pad. I want heavy weight and higher reps, the number of which decreases with weight increase, never going below 12 reps. For my last 2-3 sets, I place my feet lower and closer together on the platform. Doing so increases the difficulty of the exercise, so I adjust the weight downward, to be able to attain my desired rep range, usually 15-20 reps per set. Muscle responds to stress created, not sheer poundage. When the weight is decreased from 900 pounds to 700 pounds, it doesnt mean that the exercise just got easier. My range of motion will be less with my feet closer and lower than when I am in my  power stance. I do not let my knees track over my feet. If youre watching, it will appear to you that Im doing a legal press. Understand that even though my training is adapted to my injuries, my legs have never looked better. One exercise, maximum effort, then rest for a week. An example of one of my workouts: On leg day, I think about the workout all day. I know that this bodybuilding day is going to be more painful and more hazardous to my gym longevity then any other workout day. From the time that I slide into that leg press until the last set, I become an aggressive animal, not willing to accept failure and believing that on this day I will set a personal best. For example, recently the first set that I was willing to count was 8 plates on each side for 37 reps. When I was done with the set, with my heart rate 150+, and my hands cramped from holding on to the ass pad of the machine to keep myself locked in nice and tight, I was [email protected]#king pissed that I pussed out and did not go for 40, after coming so close! Then I did 9 plates for 25, 10 plates for 20, 11 and a nickel  1000 lbs. even  for 2 sets of 12. Back down to 8 plates, feet lower, for 2 sets of 20 reps. Totals: 7 sets, 146 repetitions, not counting warm-ups, 3 to 5 minutes of rest between working (post-warm-up) sets; workout time 1 to 1.5 hours. When done, I thank God that I do not have to do that again for 7 days. This is an actual workout performed within the last six weeks. One exercise, maximum effort, then allow the quads to rest and repair for days. I usually alternate a heavy leg press workout, such as above, in one week, with a slightly lighter one the next week. The alternating one relies heavily on rest-pause technique. An example of a rest-pause workout: feet high and wide (power stance), eight plates per side after thoroughly warming up, five sets, each 15-20 reps, a slow, controlled negative, full range of motion, pause in the hole, a complete stop then drive it out, and repeat for each rep. I find that this alternation of weight-generated stress on the muscle with explosive (rest-pause-drive) stress on the quads stimulates growth and the development of more strength and endurance for the heavy workouts. I use this technique for other muscle groups, as well. I have done the same for clients whom I have trained, and it works very well. However, I am not an advocate of high-rep training for the upper body.
Calf and hamstring are worked separately, and seldom on quad day. Yes, I have competed many times in the past. I am a hard gainer who has learned through trial and error what is best for me. I also would emphasize that the weights and reps that I mention above are effective for me, but the principles will work for anyone! It is crucial not to get hung up with the ideas that a certain amount of weight promotes growth for anyone, and that a lesser amount is not effective. Strength depends on the individual. You may use three plates instead of eight, and generate the stress required to promote growth for you, at a particular stage in your development. It is the method, not the poundage, that matters. For example, you will get more benefit if you are able to warm up, then do three plates for forty, four plates for thirty, five plates for twenty, and six plates for two or three sets of 12 to 15, drop the weight to four or five plates, and finish with two sets of twenty, than if you do eight plates for five or more sets of 6 to 8 reps. I have trained with partners who insisted upon matching my weight levels, believing that otherwise they were not lifting heavy enough. In fact, unless they were at the same strength level as I was, they ended up (1) sacrificing form for poundage, (2) failing to reach their desired rep ranges, or (3) injuring themselve. Once again, the body only knows stress on the muscles, not how many pounds you put on the leg press machine. Your muscles cant read the pound numbers on the plates. By the way, I do no cardio, and get shredded using only intense lifting, which elevates my metabolism, and strict dieting for at least 12 weeks pre-contest, with 6 to 8 meals per day, also raising my metabolism, and manipulation of only carb intake for fat loss.

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## CaptainCalves

Ha ha ha, what a load of crap!! You can try intellectualize that theory as much as you want bud!! But fact is, if and I mean...IF...you know HOW to squat, then you will realise squat is KING!!  :Bs:

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## im83931

Good read for those of us over 30 and who spend the first 5-10 minutes of every morning listening to our joints pop and creak. I have a friend who competes and only uses leg press too. Its all technique.

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## Johny-too-small

> Ha ha ha, what a load of crap!! You can try intellectualize that theory as much as you want bud!! But fact is, if and I mean...IF...you know HOW to squat, then you will realise squat is KING!!


Watch your rhetoric, bro.

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## juju

Agree, I made good progress when I switched my focus to leg presses. The reason for the switch was I started to feel strain in my lower back when doing heavy squats. Now I warm up with squats. and go heavy on the leg presses.

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## godkilla

nice legs. i could only imagine what they would look like if you where injury free and would squat.

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## ergo

> nice legs. i could only imagine what they would look like if you where injury free and would squat.


If that is you in your avatar then you must know something about correct exercise selection. Read below, then try to think outside the box. Ask yourself,"Why are this guys legs better than mine" 

I used to bang out sets of squats, sets of 20 of 315, 405 for sets of 12 all deep and most of them outside the cage. I loved the endorphine rush of squating. The feel of the weight on my back, dropping deep, pushing, plates rattling, head up chest out, over and over again. Personal best 315 for 32 reps. If you tried to tell me not to squat I would tell you to go f&*k yourself *****! I have fully experiment with both leg pressing and squatting to the utmost degree and I'm a pro at expert form. I have put the same mentality into leg pressing as I did my squatting. Based upon that experiment I can conclude that leg pressing is superior to squating for leg development. Sure leg pressing is not a total body involvement lift like squats, but all you should truly be trying to stimulate are primarily the quads anyway! Have you truly taken leg pressing seriously? Tried to build up to 1000lb's or more for 15-20 reps 4-6 sets? Squats involve alot of ass, back and technique. Are you banging 405 for sets of 12 or more? Doubt it. I do think though that you could build up to 800lbs plus for sets of 12-20 on leg press. Yes, yes I know the physics involved does not equate to the amount of weight on the leg press as an exact amount you were able to press compared to a squat. No weight on the shoulder, back, no balance required. What do you think would be the response from your quadriceps? Plus your hamstrings and there is also activation of the glute muscles. Sure leg pressing is not as macho, I'll concede that.

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## soulstealer

> If that is you in your avatar then you must know something about correct exercise selection. Read below, then try to think outside the box. Ask yourself,"Why are this guys legs better than mine" 
> 
> I used to bang out sets of squats, sets of 20 of 315, 405 for sets of 12 all deep and most of them outside the cage. I loved the endorphine rush of squating. The feel of the weight on my back, dropping deep, pushing, plates rattling, head up chest out, over and over again. Personal best 315 for 32 reps. If you tried to tell me not to squat I would tell you to go f&*k yourself *****! I have fully experiment with both leg pressing and squatting to the utmost degree and I'm a pro at expert form. I have put the same mentality into leg pressing as I did my squatting. Based upon that experiment I can conclude that leg pressing is superior to squating for leg development. Sure leg pressing is not a total body involvement lift like squats, but all you should truly be trying to stimulate are primarily the quads anyway! Have you truly taken leg pressing seriously? Tried to build up to 1000lb's or more for 15-20 reps 4-6 sets? Squats involve alot of ass, back and technique. Are you banging 405 for sets of 12 or more? Doubt it. I do think though that you could build up to 800lbs plus for sets of 12-20 on leg press. Yes, yes I know the physics involved does not equate to the amount of weight on the leg press as an exact amount you were able to press compared to a squat. No weight on the shoulder, back, no balance required. What do you think would be the response from your quadriceps? Plus your hamstrings and there is also activation of the glute muscles. Sure leg pressing is not as macho, I'll concede that.


I would like to respond to this as fresh I can hit 1200lbs for 3 sets of 10 but I always do Front squats first then hack squats as I feel leg press is a fantastic movement better then anything other then "SQUAT" I do front squats and hack to pre fatigue everything so that when I get to leg press I can fail at 8-10 reps with 900lbs and then I do volume with them to take myself to complete muscular failure... I'm not saying in anyway that leg press is worthless but from a personal perspective I find leg press to be somewhat inferior to the variations of the squat and compliments a good squat routine fantastically not to say you cant get great development from leg press as you have proven...

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## CaptainCalves

And how many of you guys have used knee wraps throughout the course of your lifting career??

I bet the majority of you guys squat shallow, 'save your knee's'?? When in actual fact a deep squat puts less pressure on the knee joint because you are firing out of your glutes, hams and hips...instead of out of your quads and knees.

IMO...nothing substitutes squats!! NOTHING!!

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## soulstealer

> And how many of you guys have used knee wraps throughout the course of your lifting career??
> 
> I bet the majority of you guys squat shallow, 'save your knee's'?? When in actual fact a deep squat puts less pressure on the knee joint because you are firing out of your glutes, hams and hips...instead of out of your quads and knees.
> 
> IMO...nothing substitutes squats!! NOTHING!!


Only time I use wraps is when I get super heavy with leg press... like that 1200lbs I noted...

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## MuscleScience

I agree if you have had back problems squat is not the best choice of exercises. Squat none the less activates more motor units into recruitment than that of leg press when you equate percent of 1RM between the two exercises. With leg press you obvousely do not get full hip extension which in turn causes a lot of muscle mass to effectively not be used. 

I think you can still put on mass with leg press as long as your still stimulating the muscle beyond normal.

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## Coop77

I gave up squatting 6 months ago because of back pain and a knee problem. I now do lunges to work the glutes and other areas that the leg press just doesn't suffice for. After 6 months of this my legs are still quite strong.

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## mario_ps2

Congratulations on your success despite being injured. I too have a herniated disk on L5/S1 but I do squat because I my body lets me. 

Unfortunately I don't have a leg press in my house and the local gym only has one bilateral leg press.

I do agree that leg presses are superior for building the quads than squats.

I know the squats is the king of all exercises but if and only if you do it with the correct form and most of us don't do them correctly or at least when we up the poundages.

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## green22

some will say you gotta squat. some say you gotta bench, dead ect..... you dont "have" to do anything if its not productive for you. We are all individuals and what may work for me may not work for you. remember, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

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## Kale

> Ha ha ha, what a load of crap!! You can try intellectualize that theory as much as you want bud!! But fact is, if and I mean...IF...you know HOW to squat, then you will realise squat is KING!!


So show us some pics of your legs smart ass !!!!

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## ergo

> So show us some pics of your legs smart ass !!!!


Why thank you Kale.

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## RANA

> So show us some pics of your legs smart ass !!!!


BINGO

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## ironaddict69

It sounds like you already had great legs to start with though, I dont mean born with I mean You could rep 405 for deep squats and reps of 12 If i read correct (sorry if im wrong there was some big posts here) so you already had a really good base to them right?

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## bpm1

> So show us some pics of your legs smart ass !!!!


exactly!!!
to the poster, thanks for the info and ur legs look great, i read ur post as saying that even if u cant squat u can still build ur legs, not that u dont need to squat if u can(sommething an unnamed poster didnt understand :Aajack: ).anyway good work!

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## ergo

> It sounds like you already had great legs to start with though, I dont mean born with I mean You could rep 405 for deep squats and reps of 12 If i read correct (sorry if im wrong there was some big posts here) so you already had a really good base to them right?


No I had absolutely no base prior to leg pressing. When I got hurt I took a year off from lifting, 6 months due to injury, 6 months to pull myself out of the depressive hole I was in. When I started over I was a fat pig! 252lbs, 25% body fat. I wore size 42 pants. I looked like I never worked out in my life. Cellulite on my ass, chest, stomache, legs. Totally pathetic. The only exercise for quads that I could do was leg press. Remember years later I broke my left knee and had to start over on my left leg 23" to 27" leg pressing only. I knew if I mentioned squatting people would think I had a base. The truth is I started from behind square one

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## TaiChiChuan

I bet Captain Calves have twigs for legs like mine! That's why he won't put up a pic! 
Don't rag, that's right rag, on no one's accomplishments. Next time think, forum manners!

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## novastepp

i would like to add that ts been known that i have a spinal condition and squats only make it worse. i have leg pressed and done lunges and extensions and curls for the past couple years i have been training. i have had success, not as much as ergo, but I have made gains that I am 100% satisfied with without squatting. also, swole cat once advised me on pre fatigue squatting where you do 4 sets of extensions supersetted with 4 sets of curls. you do 20 reps of each and rest 20 minutes. you use very light weight for these just to feel the burn. then you go over and do light squats for 4-5 sets of 20. no rest pause at all when squatting. you should want to stop at 15 but be able to fight for the last 5. these really work, and they don't have to be heavy if you can't handle the impact on your back.

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## RJstrong

... nice try. however, I think I'll stick with squattin'!!!  :Evil2:

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## rockinred

> No I had absolutely no base prior to leg pressing. When I got hurt I took a year off from lifting, 6 months due to injury, 6 months to pull myself out of the depressive hole I was in. When I started over I was a fat pig! 252lbs, 25% body fat. I wore size 42 pants. I looked like I never worked out in my life. Cellulite on my ass, chest, stomache, legs. Totally pathetic. The only exercise for quads that I could do was leg press. Remember years later I broke my left knee and had to start over on my left leg 23" to 27" leg pressing only. I knew if I mentioned squatting people would think I had a base. The truth is I started from behind square one


yea bro, but you had muscle memory. I took a 7 year layoff from lifting and in a fairly short time passed up my old numbers. You had a pretty solid foundation. I think you have some good points, but I can't agree with you 100% on leg presses superceding squats. It is a good alternative and I combine them, but i can't say in my experience that I would drop squats out of my routine just yet. Both exercises have been around for a long time and depending on goals or circumstances I would say they are both excellent. To me and as much as I hate squats (painwise) they are still the king. A lot of bros just flat out can't do them due to health constraints and you showed on this thread that it if that is the case it isn't the end of the world for legs... But i will have to hold my opinion and say on the squat side of the fence.

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## pwrlftr2

I'm a powerlifter, not a bodybuilder but I do know something about back injuries. Despite a severe back injury I squat. In fact quite a few so called experts have told me that leg presses actually can be harder on your back. I still do both just use less weight and try to get stronger. Erick Cressey has a really good article about the presssure that squatting puts on your lower back. Just Google him and go to his website. Like Louie Simmons once said any exercise that is completely safe is also completely worthless.

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## ironaddict69

> ... nice try. however, I think I'll stick with squattin'!!!


+1 to that. sup RJ, im the guy u used to give advise to on myspace! the young gun powerlifter.

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## meathead320

I got to say that it depends on the goals, for me anyhow.

I do deep squat with low weight, for 12-20 reps, for several sets, then move to the leg press, with heavier weight.

I do not compete as a powerlifter, strongman, or bodybuilder however.

If someone is powerlifting, then they need to squat.

If they are doing strongman stuff, then they need to deep squat.

If they are a bodybuilder, then they need to do whatever makes the legs look good, regardless of press or squat. Whatever works to look right on stage, period.

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## ironaddict69

+1 to that.

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## Hunter.S

going to give this method a try.

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## F4iGuy

I believe you're routine is excellent for some, but everybody's different. I squat AND press.

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## Wingman1

as a almost 40 year old, with 3 herniated disks on my back and a back surgery when i was in mid 20s.,. deep squats take a toll on my back, im gonna try just the leg presses for now,,, thanks for the info

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## brokendown

Even with a good back, when doing leg presses remember to keep your lower back from curling out and up from the seat. 

going a bit to deep will pull you away , and can cause injuries to your back.

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## ebaker3

I haven't done squats in over 8 years...and I hardly did them while growing up. Leg presses have been king around here with me. I guess since I placed 2nd Heavyweight class Master Nationals then my Leg Presses weren't so bad. Check my pics

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## fummins

Since im soon to be 52 y.o. the squat is out for me due to some of my early years hijinx. I too am hitting the leg press from here on out, starting getting serious about the legs about 3 months ago since my upper body is making them look weak, legs are a whole different animal to me and can use all the help i can get.

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## stokes33

In my opinion, squats are one of the most important exercises out there. Leg press is good too and I do both. You can get big legs without squats but squats will get you there faster not to mention they don't only work your quads, they work abs, lower back, and glutes. If you can't do squats, then you can't do them, if they're hurting your knee's, chances are you're form is off because I have bad knee's and the only exercise that hurt my knee's are leg extensions.

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## yannick35

I would like to thank you very much for you post my friend, i have injured myself squatting many times, the last time was fatal to me 9 years ago, i stretched ligaments in my lower back and before i found prolotherapy i got a lot worst going to see chiros and other morons of the sort.

I have a home gym and bought a leg press it cost a lot of $$$ around 2000$ but it is well worth it.

And my training legs is very similar to yours, i shoot for high reps usually 12-15 and sometimes will go as high as 20. I lift around 400-500 pounds and thats all i need to really kill them when i do 6 sets after that i got to the leg extension.

Another point you made which is amazing is that muscle responds to stress not heavy weights, at some point in life when we get older i am 38 btw the body cannot keep up with the heavy weights, i have been weight training since i was 13 years old joined my first gym at 16 and got injured at 31 years old, i am now back after 7 years and many failed attemps when i was very injured. I do P90X and my body never looked so good.
I train with lighter weights but the intensity is still there, so instead of pressing 70 pounds db over my head i do 40 pounds but control the weight and get some serious delt action. Tempo is also great, slow down the reps and feel the pump.

I would also like to add that my sport doctor who as been treating me with prolotherapy told me: I was doing the deadlifts 4 months ago and was experiencing pain in the lower back even with perfect forms, i asked him about squats and deadlifts exercises, told him that there are lots of studies on the internet that say they are safe if done properly bla bla bla. He told me that as you age the spine gets weaker and the more your compress the spinal disc the quicker they will dry out, and get weaker real fast get prone to disc hernia and more. He told me that squatting and deadlifting are 2 exercises that are just not worth doing, if you want to stay active for the rest of your life. Yet another exercise he told me about which is very bad but people are still doing tones of it is running.

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## yannick35

> And how many of you guys have used knee wraps throughout the course of your lifting career??
> 
> I bet the majority of you guys squat shallow, 'save your knee's'?? When in actual fact a deep squat puts less pressure on the knee joint because you are firing out of your glutes, hams and hips...instead of out of your quads and knees.
> 
> IMO...nothing substitutes squats!! NOTHING!!


Got injured with knee straps and powerlifting belt doing squats....... when you reach 50 your best friend will be a wheelchair.....

Ego thats all it is...... and one day you will pay for that. Like i did. :Asskiss:

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## jeebling

Thanks for the great post Ergo. The pix speak for themselves. I recently had neck surgery and next month I celebrate my 42nd birthday. I am happy to know there is an alternative to squats...because I ain't tryna' blow out more discs in my neck or back! 

all the best,
Jeebling

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## gluteus

I'm still sticking with squats. Yes, it makes my butt bigger too, but I feel I need to do them

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## NVR2BIG1

For anybody who says you cannot get good legs without squats, go tell that to Dorian Yates, because he didn't squat

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## tcw

Huh...Dorian Yates didn't Squat?

I find that very hard to believe! ! !






> For anybody who says you cannot get good legs without squats, go tell that to Dorian Yates, because he didn't squat

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## Times Roman

some of us in here are extremely idealistic, and if you don't tow the party line and squat, you are an infidel and will crash and burn. True, squatting is best. But you have to be extremely realistic. I always adhere to the motto "you do what you can with what you got", and sometimes pretty good is good enough. Cheers to you mate!

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