# GENERAL FORUM > IN THE NEWS >  Illegal immigration

## Armykid93

I am not a racist but I do hate illegal immigrants. They leech our country and make it so we have to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to translate everything into spanish. 
What does everybody think about this topic?

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## rippedfromabove

> I am not a racist but I do hate illegal immigrants. They leech our country and make it so we have to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to translate everything into spanish.
> What does everybody think about this topic?


Not only that but they have no manners what so ever. They act like its a zoo

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## SexySweetheart

...so many opinions on this, but my major peeve is that illegal or legal immigrants have allways learned english and adapted to this country main language and I do get irritated when I notice more and more areas of life daily in NH having english version than spanish and now a few other languages as well... I mean seriously we have people from all over the world here...are we eventualy going to have every language on lables at atms or on the phone...please press 17 to hear this in english..? 
~and when on the phone even when you press the button to have english...you get a person that bearley speaks or understands english...wtf? lol

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## zaggahamma

and then proudly dangle their old country's hand knitted flag from their rear view mirror

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## slfmade

> I am not a racist but I do hate illegal immigrants. They leech our country and make it so we have to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to translate everything into spanish. 
> What does everybody think about this topic?


uh...no habla ingles!!!!

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## Macon_Bacon

I have lots of opinions on this, all of which somewhat contradict each other. They leech the US from tax revenue but at the same time our nation has become dependent on their non-citizen status to do menial and degrading jobs. Look at Alabama's new law where they can check every public school student for citizenship. Their entire agricultural workforce fled the state. The biggest thing that gets to me is that the US unemployment rate is ~9% and Alabama's is ~11%, yet they can't get enough people to work on the farms. Because America has become accustom to immigrants doing the crappiest work. It still annoys me to a great degree at the illegal immigrant exploitation of the American "dream".

P.S. Sexy, your avi is awesome!

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## zaggahamma

> I have lots of opinions on this, all of which somewhat contradict each other. They leech the US from tax revenue but at the same time our nation has become dependent on their non-citizen status to do menial and degrading jobs. Look at Alabama's new law where they can check every public school student for citizenship. Their entire agricultural workforce fled the state. The biggest thing that gets to me is that the US unemployment rate is ~9% and Alabama's is ~11%, yet they can't get enough people to work on the farms. Because America has become accustom to immigrants doing the crappiest work. It still annoys me to a great degree at the illegal immigrant exploitation of the American "dream".
> 
> P.S. Sexy, your avi is awesome!


the laws MUST punish those who hire illegal(s)(ly) end of story

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## Macon_Bacon

> the laws MUST punish those who hire illegal(s)(ly) end of story


I totally agree but I'm going to be pissed off when the cost of my chicken and oatmeal goes up x4 because there aren't enough illegals to work for less than minimum wage. I am in no way advocating illegal immigrants, I'm really making a point that American citizens are lazy and unwilling to work in lesser jobs because we are a "1st world" economy.

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## zaggahamma

> I totally agree but I'm going to be pissed off when the cost of my chicken and oatmeal goes up x4 because there aren't enough illegals to work for less than minimum wage. I am in no way advocating illegal immigrants, I'm really making a point that American citizens are lazy and unwilling to work in lesser jobs because we are a "1st world" economy.


yeh your right...its only part of the problem...to help get the chicken and oats back down lets bust a few polar bears ass and get that pipleine pumpin some oil

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## slfmade

> the laws MUST punish those who hire illegal(s)(ly) end of story


I agree; however, you must know if this happens prices will certainly increase on products and many small businesses across the entire US would go under. We've become so accustomed to buying cheap that sticker shock would enrage most consumers....it would be very difficult to do. It's kind of like 9-11. People were all about going to war in the beginning until they realized how much it was costing them both financially and personally.

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## zaggahamma

> I agree; however, you must know if this happens prices will certainly increase on products and many small businesses across the entire US would go under. We've become so accustomed to buying cheap that sticker shock would enrage most consumers....it would be very difficult to do. It's kind of like 9-11. People were all about going to war in the beginning until they realized how much it was costing them both financially and personally.


yeh i reckon we can fix it overnight...hmmmmm...lets let some of em stay...they compete for a card or something? like a mini triworkalon (production, grasp of english language, volunteer help, etc.)

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## Macon_Bacon

> yeh your right...its only part of the problem...to help get the chicken and oats back down lets bust a few polar bears ass and get that pipleine pumpin some oil


This is a great idea. Provides tons of jobs and cuts dependence on foreign energy sources.

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## wmaousley

Ask them about immigration

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## jimmyinkedup

I think we should pull our troops from conflicts in the middle east and allow them to properly secure our border. It would greatly impede the drug and immigration issues - both of which are violations of federal law - and federal employees (ie the us military) should be used to enforce them . Im tired of hearing its more complicated than that. It really isnt ...all the military action outside our borders - all the federal aid we as a country give out - even all the caritable aid given by private us citizens should be focused here - solving our problems. The economic impact of this (stopping illegal immigration) is only going to grow and grow - it almost to the now or never point. I say now.

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## slfmade

We could also take all of the lazy people that are on welfare (I know some are justified, but most are just to lazy to get a job) and tell them if they want to continue to receive their welfare they need to be out working in these jobs that only the illegals will do now. I'll call it the "shit or get off the pot welfare reform act" Who's with me????

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## jimmyinkedup

Agreed.
Also we could realize that there is nothing wrong with a hard days work - swallow some false pride and eliminate so called "jobs only illegals will do" by doing them ourselves. All the sudden the country built by farmers shoveling shit is above shoveling shit.

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## zaggahamma

x3 ^

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## SexySweetheart

@ Jimmy spot on ! ...I wus looking to moving to Arizona a few years ago...but after reasearching it ~the state is soooo messed up from illegal immigrents ...stolen cars/jobs/welfare/crime/stolen identities etc due to human trafficing of illegals, that I decided not to.

@Macon ... this was a close second for my avy lol Attachment 118961

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## Nooomoto

> I think we should pull our troops from conflicts in the middle east and allow them to properly secure our border. It would greatly impede the drug and immigration issues - both of which are violations of federal law - and federal employees (ie the us military) should be used to enforce them . Im tired of hearing its more complicated than that. It really isnt ...all the military action outside our borders - all the federal aid we as a country give out - even all the caritable aid given by private us citizens should be focused here - solving our problems. The economic impact of this (stopping illegal immigration) is only going to grow and grow - it almost to the now or never point. I say now.


Today the WH announced it is going to pull 75% of Arizona's National Guard troops off the border and replace them with a drone(s). Seems like a brilliant idea. Now we can watch and do nothing as the illegals scurry across the border, rather than just doing nothing. I wonder if the drone will go down in Mexico, forcing the Obama Administration to take the hard stance of asking for it back?

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## zaggahamma

the pretty please play

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## Armykid93

Glad the main gist of what I am getting is that this is a problem we have to deal with. 
Dont get me wrong I still believe that this is the greatest coutnry on earth and I know why people wana come here but you gota do it legally. Its not my problem if you were born somewhere else.

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## Armykid93

> I think we should pull our troops from conflicts in the middle east and allow them to properly secure our border. It would greatly impede the drug and immigration issues - both of which are violations of federal law - and federal employees (ie the us military) should be used to enforce them . Im tired of hearing its more complicated than that. It really isnt ...all the military action outside our borders - all the federal aid we as a country give out - even all the caritable aid given by private us citizens should be focused here - solving our problems. The economic impact of this (stopping illegal immigration) is only going to grow and grow - it almost to the now or never point. I say now.


I agree. If all the federal aid was given to people who need it IN AMERICA we wouldnt have a crisis, if the foregin aid was just gone we would have significantly less debt, im tired of politcal correctness and worrying about peoples feelings. Especially when I see things that are translated into spanish. Its bull ****, I dont care about hurting peoples feelings when they come from a different country and cant speak english, WE SPEAK ENGLISH HERE. learn it or leave.

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## songdog

I am in total agreement with Jimmyinkmeup.Those are my exact words.As a kid I worked produce farms along with other kids.We had migrante workers at the time.But at the end of the season they went home.Now kids are to good to do those jobs beacuse mommy and daddy will give them money.Our kids are lazy or system sucks to many people out of work beacuse they choose to be!!

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## FONZY007

> We could also take all of the lazy people that are on welfare (I know some are justified, but most are just to lazy to get a job) and tell them if they want to continue to receive their welfare they need to be out working in these jobs that only the illegals will do now. I'll call it the "shit or get off the pot welfare reform act" Who's with me????


Lol I can tell you one thing, I'm Hispanic and my grandparents where from Texas. Im proud to be an American, but as far as my family tree goes we where always in the U.S.A., just speaking for myself.

On a side note, my wife has 2 boys by her ex and he is a healthy 23 year old and got another girl pregnant and jumped on her welfare so he don't have to support the first 2 kids he made, so of course I step up as there step dad and take care of them but he has all the rights to them!! Major loser and a very irritated and frustrating subject

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## Sc0rch

Another suggestion is to incentivize prisoners to work these jobs. Maybe add some good behavior time or something.

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## zaggahamma

> Lol I can tell you one thing, I'm Hispanic and my grandparents where from Texas. Im proud to be an American, but as far as my family tree goes we where always in the U.S.A., just speaking for myself.
> 
> On a side note, my wife has 2 boys by her ex and he is a healthy 23 year old and got another girl pregnant and jumped on her welfare *so he don't have to support the first 2 kids he made*, so of course I step up as there step dad and take care of them but he has all the rights to them!! Major loser and a very irritated and frustrating subject


what state has laws supporting this statement

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## zaggahamma

> Another suggestion is to incentivize prisoners to work these jobs. Maybe add some good behavior time or something.


also good and i think in place in some prisons/states but not 100% sure/where

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## FONZY007

> what state has laws supporting this statement


Cali

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## poppz

> I totally agree but I'm going to be pissed off when the cost of my chicken and oatmeal goes up x4 because there aren't enough illegals to work for less than minimum wage. I am in no way advocating illegal immigrants, I'm really making a point that American citizens are lazy and unwilling to work in lesser jobs because we are a "1st world" economy.


exactly. Ppl complain but they wont work the jobs illegals will. I'm from new Orleans and after hurricane Katrina Hispanics have populated here heavily. I haven't seen any race other than Hispanics willing to stand in front home depot all day to get picked up by any contractor for a $100 a day. All interstate work.Hispanics. levees repairs. Hispanics comming from Texas to work all day in sun for $300 a week. Tax dollars at work.cut Costs on labor to use more public funds as far as it can stretch

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## zaggahamma

too bad ppl from yet another country will come and hang at the other end of home depot and do it for 50 a day

dat ok too or even better?

work for food?

cuz their not LAZY?

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## poppz

No I see your point buttt America has a lot of spending probs. All welfare should be cut along with foreign aid and useless wars.

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## Sc0rch

^Oh geez another ron paul pacifist/isolationist  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## FONZY007

> No I see your point buttt America has a lot of spending probs. All welfare should be cut along with foreign aid and useless wars.


I believe in Ca they have a 5 year cap on welfare..

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## zaggahamma

> No I see your point buttt America has a lot of spending probs. All welfare should be cut along with foreign aid and useless wars.


Exactly ..thats why the ILLEGAL immigration issue should be a NON ISSUE..and your last post has better points

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## Times Roman

i'm not pro illegal immigration, but I'll take the opposing view. there are positives that aren't being considered. for one, cali's agricultural industry would utterly collapse without the migratory mexicans working the fields. this is a fact, not an opinion.

the problem i see is a political one. when times are bad, we want to single out a group less able to defend itself and demonize them. 

the way i see it, my ancestors came here over a hundred years ago, starving, penniless, with only the clothes on their backs. the dirty irishman was blamed for everything.... crime, loss of jobs, and an overall degredation to society. then came the italians as the scapegoat for society's ills. now we are doing the same to the mexicans. it's the same pattern, over and over, year after year.

unfortunately, most can only see the negative and overlook the positive.

So as an exercise in awareness and critical thinking, I challange you to come up with some positives that the mexicans are responsible for.

the easy one is the many multibillion dollar agriculture industry in california.

what else?

anyone?

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## Times Roman

I thought this damn thing would double post

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## dec11

where Ireland is concerned, only professionals should be allowed in.

take taxi drivers in Dublin for instance, the overwhelming majority are foreign. they drive dangerous old bangers, hundreds dont even possess a drivers licence, the majority are not insured and their driving skills are horrendous and down right dangerous. they step straight into this city and straight into a taxi which is illegally operated by a number of people.

the welfare system here is also all for them, some are getting 30-40K in benefits per year, its a fvcking disgrace and i personally would shop any illegals in to the authorities without a second thought.

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## Lemonada8

Another thing to consider is the growth rate of Hispanics in the us. They are soon going to be the "largest minority" in the USA. So no politician wants to piss them off due to their impact with votes an such.

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## Macon_Bacon

> Another thing to consider is the growth rate of Hispanics in the us. They are soon going to be the "largest minority" in the USA. So no politician wants to piss them off due to their impact with votes an such.


But illegal immigrants can't vote. Their population size does matter economically but not politically because of lack of actual voters. Economically the hispanics in the US could cripple us.

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## zaggahamma

nobody is doubting that illegals can/will/are working...how many people can live in one country? keeping with your position times shall there be open borders? in all countries? just the u.s.? does population make a difference?

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## SexySweetheart

----

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## FONZY007

> yup its actualy a fed law for all states to have a 5year cap...but..if there is Domsetic violance or a serious medical prob that is deamed to sever to work than the 5years is extended. Foostamps and healthy kids/medicaid dont fall under the cash assistance 5 year cap, food stamps can be collected from birth till death if the qualifications are met.


Dang...

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## gixxerboy1

our immigration policies her suck. I seen it with my wife. she was doing everything legally and was denied to be abel to stay and and had a deportation date. Also it took 5 years to get a work authorization card. Even though she had a social security card here. So most jobs wouldnt hire her with out that card.

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## Sgt. Hartman

No one has mentioned anything about the construction industry, specifically the housing market. Without the illegal mexicans performing these jobs that no one else wants to do, new home prices would sky rocket to the point where no one could afford new homes, the opposite of what the market needs in order to recover. The rate of production of new homes would slow to a snail's pace as well. In the residential construction industry, the illegal immigrants did not steal jobs from the "hard working" legal Americans, they merely fulfilled a need that was not being met by the self entitled citizens of our country. Most legal Americans of all colors feel that they are above earning $12 an hour hanging sheetrock or installing roofing, and instead of working 60 hours a week like the illegals, a 20 or 30 hour work week would be the norm as they can't work Mondays because they're still fvcked up from the weekend and the weekend starts Thursday after work so Fridays are a wash as well. The prices of everything from lawn maintenance to pool care and restaurant food would sky rocket without them. Not to mention the implications on food prices from no one willing to work the agricultural jobs. 

I'm not supporting illegal immigrants, just pointing out some problems that would arise if they were all gone. IMO they should put the national guard to defend and seal the border to stop anymore from coming over. The ones over her already should not be given amnesty or access to any social programs whatsoever until they can prove that they have paid income taxes for a period of say five years. This would require a drastic overhaul of many social programs but really it's necessary regardless. The idea of deporting them all is ridiculous both from an economic and logistic standpoint. The key IMO is to keep more from coming over and develop a method of making sure that they PAY THEIR TAXES.

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## Lemonada8

^^ I think that it would actually help the economy, if building a house becomes more expensive, it would require that current unoccupied houses to be purchased. 
personal construction follows the economy.. but business construction should hopefully still be decent enough to provide some jobs to legal citizens. 

I agree with the comment that americans have lost their work ethic, and need a priority change. But that is a societal change which is something ive always said that is needed before we get out of this mess. esp with the attitude of 'the gov should provide for me'... etc..

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## Far from massive

Wow how wrong you are, keep listening to wtop (hate radio) and sporting your George Bush bumper sticker. 

You are one of the suckers that the haves truly love, completely blind to the real cost of hiring illegals only seeing the fact that they will hang sheetrock for 12 hr. 60 hrs a week to pay rent. Never mind the fact that if you work hanging sheetrock 60hrs a wk chances are you will be unable to work once you hit 45-50 or so. Never mind the fact that legal Americans used to get 12 hr to hang rock back in the 1980s. Never mind the fact that the cost of living vs minimum wage has never been lower since the inception of the minium wage. Never mind the fact that almost every small lawncare company (less than 20 employees) that works legally has been forced out of business by those who operate illegally. And believe me the trend in construction of those who used to laugh all the way to the bank counting the money they made exploiting Mexicans who are now going out of business is far from over, the landscaping company is just the beginning it will soon work its way through all other trades with plumbing and electric last to go due to the legal hurdles.

The simple truth is its wrong to exploit anyone, illegal or US born and the upper class who are totally devoid of morals is now exploiting the illegal and the Americans who do physical labor far more than ever in recent history. Those who now own construction companies and are acting as their (big businesses) pawns in the war. Meantime you George Bush bumper sticker, WTOP radio listening, Satan was a democrat flag flying, pawns don't even know you are being used....but that's ok as long as you are able to ride the train before it derails.

Ohh well looks like this generation of semieducated pseudointellectual principless scum will be the end of this country, it just looks like the shit will hit the fan sooner than anyone expected.

By the way unless you have been buying gold for the past 5 years you are not in the club that holds the tickets. 


Ohh and please don't get the post twisted, I have absolutely nothing against the immigrants at all I agree with Sarge they are some of the hardest working people I have ever known and many of them have good ethics and principles. Unfortunately one of those ethics is to support familia before any other and this is why they will seek out every program available and another one of those principles is to do as the church teaches so they see nothing wrong with having 8 kids even though they can not support 1 on their own earnings. Of the 3 spanish americans I work with on my mainenance crew one is 22 and has 3 kids and is already divorced and his exwife is now pregnant. The other is on his 2nd wife, his last 2 wifes he went back to Salvador to marry the 1st was 14 when he was 22 the last was 18 and he was 38 when he married her. Both of them are now naturalized citizens who are elegible for every benefit we have to offer for them or their kids 6 total between them so far.

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## Lemonada8

Where is that post directed? ^^

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## zaggahamma

> Where is that post directed? ^^


i think he was directing at sg. hartman as he questioned the cost of hiring illegals in the 2nd sentence..

and i too will ask sg. hartman a question that i previously asked in the thread...when/where does it end? (when the illegal worker will work for food?)

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## Sgt. Hartman

I just spent 30 minutes typing a post in response to FFM but deleted it. I don't come here to debate politics or social issues and to be honest the opinions of a bunch of meat head steroid users on these issues aren't important to me.

I will ask you this FFM - who the **** are you and what are your experiences and qualifications to speak like that (assuming it was directed to me) and to have all this figured out to such an exact science?

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## Sgt. Hartman

> ^^ I think that it would actually help the economy, if building a house becomes more expensive, it would require that current unoccupied houses to be purchased. 
> personal construction follows the economy.. but business construction should hopefully still be decent enough to provide some jobs to legal citizens. 
> 
> I agree with the comment that americans have lost their work ethic, and need a priority change. But that is a societal change which is something ive always said that is needed before we get out of this mess. esp with the attitude of 'the gov should provide for me'... etc..


I agree with you but it's not that simple. Sure, ideally we would stop all new construction to allow us to churn through the current inventory of foreclosures and resales. Then the appraisals would eventually creep their way back up and new construction could start to make a recovery. The problem is that 5% of the working population is directly employed through residential construction and ever how many more indirectly by producing or servicing the products that go into homes. Add all those people to the unemployed and then we've got even worse problems.

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## Lemonada8

I dont think that it would get that drastic of a change from what is going on now. There may be some crunching, but the thing is that i dont get... with all this 'unemployment' (which is apparently the gov's, rich, wealthy peoples fault... ) how come there are still a pretty full help wanted section? Yes it may not be the best job or the one you want, but its a job. I truely think the big issue is the spending of money in welfare and other social programs. They reduce incentive to actually go work, when those social programs pay better than actually having a job, its no wonder that people would rather stay on welfare, then theres the whole 'disability' crowd which I would bet in 90% they are all way over-exaggerated to what they can/want to do. 
But thats going into a whole other topic, but they are all inter-related. 
back on topic:
The end line (IMO) is that they are termed 'Illegal' for a reason, and when we bend the rules to much noone really respects them. They dont pay into the social programs that 'legal' workers do that have to support those who choose which end up draining money out of the country. There is a legal way to become a citizen (prolly needs to be re-vamped..) which all other 'legal' immigrants have to do, so they get the appropriate rights and benefits offered by our great country. When we bend the rules, and provide those same things to 'illegal' immigrants it takes all incentive to become legal.

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## zaggahamma

> I dont think that it would get that drastic of a change from what is going on now. There may be some crunching, but the thing is that i dont get... with all this 'unemployment' (which is apparently the gov's, rich, wealthy peoples fault... )* how come there are still a pretty full help wanted section?* Yes it may not be the best job or the one you want, but its a job. I truely think the big issue is the spending of money in welfare and other social programs. They reduce incentive to actually go work, when those social programs pay better than actually having a job, its no wonder that people would rather stay on welfare, then theres the whole 'disability' crowd which I would bet in 90% they are all way over-exaggerated to what they can/want to do. 
> But thats going into a whole other topic, but they are all inter-related. 
> back on topic:
> The end line (IMO) is that they are termed 'Illegal' for a reason, and when we bend the rules to much noone really respects them. They dont pay into the social programs that 'legal' workers do that have to support those who choose which end up draining money out of the country. There is a legal way to become a citizen (prolly needs to be re-vamped..) which all other 'legal' immigrants have to do, so they get the appropriate rights and benefits offered by our great country. When we bend the rules, and provide those same things to 'illegal' immigrants it takes all incentive to become legal.


in orlando

the help wanted pages went from like a dozen pages to about 1 or a half of one for the last several years...i think its state to state

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## Armykid93

Ok so basically what needs to happen is this. Kick the illegals out. Now noones willing to work the fields but farmers still need employees or work wont get done so they will be forced to raise their wages to attract legal us citizens. This would in turn bolster our economy because citizens would spend money.

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## Armykid93

AAnd the upper class isn't devoid of morals lol that just hippie garble. I loved Bush to btw.

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## Armykid93

And there's still a full help wanted secTIon because people are lazy b1tches. There ARE TONS OF JOBS AVAILABLE. I found mine after 2 weeks of looking. Sorry not post whoring I'm just on my kindle and cant figure out how to use it properly lol

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## zaggahamma

> And there's still a full help wanted secTIon because people are lazy b1tches. There ARE TONS OF JOBS AVAILABLE. I found mine after 2 weeks of looking. Sorry not post whoring I'm just on my kindle and cant figure out how to use it properly lol


are u calling me a liar?

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## zaggahamma

huh?

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## zaggahamma

not post whoring either

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## Coolhand5599

It will never change because the democrats are afraid to loose the votes. We all have to buy the votes of people who have no right to vote.

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## Armykid93

Bingo lol coolhand wins the grand pride. And no jpkman your not a liar, my job is sh1tty but I'm willing to do it. That's why it was easy to find

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## zaggahamma

> Bingo lol coolhand wins the grand pride. And no jpkman your not a liar, my job is sh1tty but I'm willing to do it. That's why it was easy to find


lol
i hear ya bro
i'm just telling you what i said about the classifieds here is true

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## Times Roman

> *I am not a racist but I do hate illegal immigrants*. They leech our country and make it so we have to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to translate everything into spanish. 
> What does everybody think about this topic?


then what "ist" would you call it?

Fascist?
Zenophobic?

You've labeled a certain class of people, prejudged them, and then use that generalization to single people out.

The reality is most illegals are mexican. but when we see mexicans, we often times think "illegal" and act accordingly.

Truth is there are many many mexicans here that are citizens, but they unfortunately get harrassed over these and similar issues.

Mate, when you boil it down, it all comes down to hate and ignorance.

The sober reality is, if you were in their shoes over in mexico, no job, no money, extremely difficult to provide for your family, I guarantee you would consider crossing the boarder in search of a better way of life. I know I damn sure as hell would serioiusly consider coming over here. Family comes first, before anything else. YOU WILL DO WHAT YOU MUST DO TO PROTECT YOUR FAMILY!!

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## zaggahamma

*illegal*immigranthater*IST*

legal immigrant lover  :Smilie:

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## Times Roman

> *illegal*immigranthater*IST*
> 
> legal immigrant lover


whether or not it is legal is really a political discussion. every few years, amnisty is granted for those already here. So it becomes a moot point. if the politicians have any balls, they would redevelop a worker visa program like they did almost a hundred years ago (brassero [sp?]). but they don't have any balls, so they stick to the current failed method of making it illegal and then giving amnesty every ten years or so.

the reality is, you cannot legislate people's behavior. it is crazy to think otherwise. Just say no to drugs is a failure. Alchohol prohibition was a crazy failure. and creating laws making immigration illegal, when those that break those laws are desperate to feed their families is a failure too.

So what are you really upset about? someone breaking a law? or mexicans coming over here?

if you are upset about breaking laws, then i laugh, since most those here on the board that take aas are breaking the law. most that own cars drive too fast and therefore break the law. most that file taxes at somepoint in thier lives have cheated on thier returns, and that is breaking the law. the truth is, we ALL have broken the law at some point. So i don't get how you could be upset if an immigrant breaks the law in search of a better life for him and his family. This is human nature, and the instinct for survival. To deny someone as basic an instinct as this, which is as basic as the need for food and water, to me, doesn't make any sense.

Or are you upset because it is mexicans that are coming over here?

*Answer me this one thing, and then i'll let it go.

What would you do if you had no options, no money, no job, and were struggling to feed your family? Would you cross the boarder in search of a better life?*

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## zaggahamma

i think all nationalities are great but can we have open/zero borders, seriously? is that what you think? how many countries have that?

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## Times Roman

pretty much all of em in the EU.

I've been all over the world and seen a lot of shit, so I am probably more understanding than most.

But you didn't answer the question. Answer the question, and honestly, and i will say no more.

*What would you do if you had no options, no money, no job, and were struggling to feed your family? Would you cross the boarder in search of a better life?*

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## zaggahamma

> pretty much all of em in the EU.
> 
> I've been all over the world and seen a lot of shit, so I am probably more understanding than most.
> 
> But you didn't answer the question. Answer the question, and honestly, and i will say no more.
> 
> *What would you do if you had no options, no money, no job, and were struggling to feed your family? Would you cross the boarder in search of a better life?*


if i wasnt risking my/my family's life,health, and freedom like in this instance *yes* of course

hows that working out in EU

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## Times Roman

And that’s my point. Pretty hard to crucify someone if all they are doing is what you would do in the same situation.

Thanks for chatting!
---Roman

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## Coolhand5599

> pretty much all of em in the EU.
> 
> I've been all over the world and seen a lot of shit, so I am probably more understanding than most.
> 
> But you didn't answer the question. Answer the question, and honestly, and i will say no more.
> 
> *What would you do if you had no options, no money, no job, and were struggling to feed your family? Would you cross the boarder in search of a better life?*


Yes, But I would honor and respect the laws, people and language of where I was going. I would try to blend in as if I were one of them.

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## Times Roman

> Yes, But I would honor and respect the laws, people and language of where I was going. I would try to blend in as if I were one of them.


Most of these people are uneducated and not sophisticated. They are just trying to survive, and doing the best they can.

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## zaggahamma

so yes , open borders? no ifs ands or buts?

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## lovbyts

> our immigration policies her suck. I seen it with my wife. she was doing everything legally and was denied to be abel to stay and and had a deportation date. Also it took 5 years to get a work authorization card. Even though she had a social security card here. So most jobs wouldnt hire her with out that card.


I hear you, they are all messed up. I got lucky for the most part or my Mrs. did, she got her green card that they say doubles as a work permit but her 5yr old daughter got her work permit after only 6 months. LOL

The agriculture system would not be affected if they would make the work permits more accessible, easier to obtain or at least quicker and enforced them.

What pisses me off is every year they come up with this plan or that plan and a bunch of new laws. Laws are NOT going to make any difference. We have PLENTY of laws in place but no one will enforce them. It's all typical BS

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## Times Roman

> so yes , open borders? no ifs ands or buts?


I guess i didn't go away like i said i would. sorry about that. I never said "open the boarders, no ifs and or buts"

what i did say was this....

"if the politicians have any balls, they would redevelop a worker visa program like they did almost a hundred years ago (brassero [sp?]). but they don't have any balls, so they stick to the current failed method of making it illegal and then giving amnesty every ten years or so."

not many understand the brassero (sp?) program. it was an excellent program. provided jobs to immigrants, gave them a small retirement, and they freely went home after their particular job was over. they didn't stay here. but because it is illegal to hire illegals, it is hard for them to find work. many have kids who then become citizens, and then go on welfare.

my point is this. instead of prohibiting something someone is going to do anyways, it is ALWAYS better to regulate it, then control it, and that way everybody is happy.

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## gixxerboy1

i dont blame the mexicans for coming here. Like TR said if i was in that situation too im sure i would do it. But i would excep the punishment (deportation) if caught. I wouldnt act like i had the right to be here. 

I'm more pissed at the system. After going threw it 1st hand.

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## Times Roman

^ your woman is a slightly different situation, as she didn't come here out of desperation, no money, no job (edit out the parts that aren't true). my point is that the typical mexican immigrant really has few if any options. It's really a sad sad situation.

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## gixxerboy1

> ^ your woman is a slightly different situation, as she didn't come here out of desperation, no money, no job (edit out the parts that aren't true). my point is that the typical mexican immigrant really has few if any options. It's really a sad sad situation.


your right. She came here on a student visa to do an internship in the summer and never left. But she tried staying legally and was turned down and they issued a deportation order. So she was worried if she ever got stopped by a cop or tried to get on a plane she would be detained. But if she never tried to do it legally she would have been fine like the Mexicans

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## thegodfather

blah blah blah blah......blahhhhh

1. Constitutional amendment to end birthright citizenship. Citizenship should only extend to babies born of legal US residents. Goodbye anchor babies. 

2. Illegal immigrants do jobs Americans dont want to do AT THE RATE BEING PAID. This is simple supply side economics. The American worker occupied these jobs before the illegals did, when the illegals came to America OFFERING TO DO THE JOB FOR 40% LESS, who did the businessman decide to hire? Illegals pool their resources, and so they are able to survive on wages not possible for legal citizens. 

3. End all entitlements for illegal immigrants. This is about removing the incentive for illegals to come here in the first place. If we deny them access to free medical care, education, and other social welfare programs, we have removed a great deal of incentive. 

4. Deportation for all current illegal immigrants. This would be a slow process, not a giant mass round up. However, when a police officer pulls over an illegal immigrant, they dont get a ticket and sent on their way, they get detained and deported. 


And Times New Roman's argument is all fine and good, except for those other cultures that emmigrated to the United States, the Italians, the Irish, they ASSIMILATED into the US culture, they LEARNED ENGLISH, and adopted our traditions. The Mexican immigrant wants to do NONE OF THOSE THINGS. They want us to learn Spanish, and they want to retain all of their traditions while adopting and conforming to none of ours, all the while undercutting the American worker and offering their services under the table and off the books.

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## BigBadWolf

> No one has mentioned anything about the construction industry, specifically the housing market. Without the illegal mexicans performing these jobs that no one else wants to do, new home prices would sky rocket to the point where no one could afford new homes, the opposite of what the market needs in order to recover. The rate of production of new homes would slow to a snail's pace as well. In the residential construction industry, the illegal immigrants did not steal jobs from the "hard working" legal Americans, they merely fulfilled a need that was not being met by the self entitled citizens of our country. Most legal Americans of all colors feel that they are above earning $12 an hour hanging sheetrock or installing roofing, and instead of working 60 hours a week like the illegals, a 20 or 30 hour work week would be the norm as they can't work Mondays because they're still fvcked up from the weekend and the weekend starts Thursday after work so Fridays are a wash as well. The prices of everything from lawn maintenance to pool care and restaurant food would sky rocket without them. Not to mention the implications on food prices from no one willing to work the agricultural jobs.
> 
> I'm not supporting illegal immigrants, just pointing out some problems that would arise if they were all gone. IMO they should put the national guard to defend and seal the border to stop anymore from coming over. The ones over her already should not be given amnesty or access to any social programs whatsoever until they can prove that they have paid income taxes for a period of say five years. This would require a drastic overhaul of many social programs but really it's necessary regardless. The idea of deporting them all is ridiculous both from an economic and logistic standpoint. The key IMO is to keep more from coming over and develop a method of making sure that they PAY THEIR TAXES.


You should get into politics

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## thegodfather

> No one has mentioned anything about the construction industry, specifically the housing market. Without the illegal mexicans performing these jobs that no one else wants to do, new home prices would sky rocket to the point where no one could afford new homes, the opposite of what the market needs in order to recover. The rate of production of new homes would slow to a snail's pace as well. In the residential construction industry, the illegal immigrants did not steal jobs from the "hard working" legal Americans, they merely fulfilled a need that was not being met by the self entitled citizens of our country. Most legal Americans of all colors feel that they are above earning $12 an hour hanging sheetrock or installing roofing, and instead of working 60 hours a week like the illegals, a 20 or 30 hour work week would be the norm as they can't work Mondays because they're still fvcked up from the weekend and the weekend starts Thursday after work so Fridays are a wash as well. The prices of everything from lawn maintenance to pool care and restaurant food would sky rocket without them. Not to mention the implications on food prices from no one willing to work the agricultural jobs. 
> 
> I'm not supporting illegal immigrants, just pointing out some problems that would arise if they were all gone. IMO they should put the national guard to defend and seal the border to stop anymore from coming over. The ones over her already should not be given amnesty or access to any social programs whatsoever until they can prove that they have paid income taxes for a period of say five years. This would require a drastic overhaul of many social programs but really it's necessary regardless. The idea of deporting them all is ridiculous both from an economic and logistic standpoint. The key IMO is to keep more from coming over and develop a method of making sure that they PAY THEIR TAXES.



I respectfully disagree with your assessment. As stated in the aforementioned, when illegal immigrants showed up en masse, offering their services for 1/3 of what American workers were being paid, its a no brainer for the employer. The wages of an unskilled laborer are not that much when you're ACTUALLY PAYING TAXES! So add in the fact that the illegal immigrant is offering his services at a far reduced rate, and the fact that the American worker is paying taxes, and yes you could errantly assume the American 'doesnt want that job,' but dont ever forget to posit that statement with 'at that rate.' Additionally, Mexican workers usually live with many other migrants, in inexpensive rentals, pooling their resources in the United States, allowing them to live on extremely meager wages. The American worker however, does not live 10 people to a 2 bedroom apartment, and thus requires more funds to support his family. 


Any VOID in the market, specifically the housing market, was created and influenced by government meddling in the free market. The governments push in the late 90's to early 2000's, for increased home ownership among Americans, created a housing boom. So once again, I really think that government intervention into the market incentivized the hiring of illegal immigrants. They were available, and they were cheap, and there was little consequence to employ them. 

If illegal immigrants were not available to offer their services for 1/3 of what American workers are willing to be paid for the same jobs, employers would be forced to pay a fair wage for the job. Yes, this cost would be passed on to the consumer, but the impacts of illegal immigration are not just seen in the sticker prices of goods. The impacts are seen in the form of bankrupt schools, hospitals, and towns within 100 miles of the border. Our social resources are being drained from this county by illegal immigration, we have the illusion of a cost savings, when in reality our propensity to pay little at the counter, hits us much harder on our education, healthcare, and social welfare infrastructure.

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## JohnnyVegas

> our immigration policies her suck. I seen it with my wife. she was doing everything legally and was denied to be abel to stay and and had a deportation date. Also it took 5 years to get a work authorization card. Even though she had a social security card here. So most jobs wouldnt hire her with out that card.


I won't get sucked into the overall debate here. It is a complicated issue that cannot be solved by ideologues on either side of the argument.

But, I will agree with Gixxer that our systems are a bit of a mess for those that DO want to come here legally. We have friends that told us the things they went through to get married and bring her over from Ecuador. Then, they continued to have problems with her status after she was here. She also had problems with employment because of stupid paperwork errors, or things that didn't get filed. What a mess.

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## Armykid93

> then what "ist" would you call it?
> 
> Fascist?
> Zenophobic?
> 
> You've labeled a certain class of people, prejudged them, and then use that generalization to single people out.
> 
> The reality is most illegals are mexican. but when we see mexicans, we often times think "illegal" and act accordingly.
> 
> ...


I hate drug users and occupy Portland as well. I have lots of legal friends of all races and I realize many illegals are good people. But many of them to an insane amount of harm to our country. How am I ignorant/? All illegals do hurt our country and many make our lives here difficult. Its not like steroids use where your only affecting yourself. They affect millions of us. America is a great nation where people should come to better themselves but do it legally.

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## Armykid93

The godfather is also a winner. So now to compete businesses have to hire illegals because of course I don't want to work for 55 dollars a day under the table so I don't get jobs they do. People need to stop worrying about hurting peoples feelings. If their country is so bad OBVIOUSLY THEY FVCKED IT UP. Now they need to be adults and fix it. Not rely on our healthcare and welfare programs.

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## odi et amo

I think 99% or more people of the earth are immigrants anyway. I mean the natives are the American Indians are they not? in USA.

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## imnotnatty

Ok hold on, I lived 3yrs in Cincinnati oh, I fixed s few computers for guys who had a kid of land, this one particular guy I know he had illegals working his fields and he absolutely loved them, I asked him if he want afraid and this is what he said, who else is going to work my fields? White ppl only want desk jobs, and ******s, well live off welfare, so he paid then 10$ per hr and they all lived on his land, so for an ambitious racist guy to say he loved his immigrants, there's got to be something there. You say you don't want immigrants taking your jobs, well sir I say, who works take those jobs if not them? I myself am a Cuban immigrant, although I dint think I fall under the illegal alien time because this country protects Cubans and if you touch land you ate automatically a resident, I went to school, I got better graces than most kids born here, I got a few scholarships, went to university, got a master's in telecommunications, started my own business and I have 11 employees, 9 of which are American citizens, I pay a fukload of taxes every year. Please I welcome anytime to tell me how I'm a leech to this country.

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## Far from massive

I can only speak for the illegal/recent immigrants in the US. I live in MD and the US people need to get over this fallacy that its so cheap paying illegal immigrants (in my high tax rate area) $8 an hour to wash dishes is somehow cheaper than paying Joe average $12 an hour to do the same work??? What the public is oblivious to is that Joe average person working for 12 an hour has .6 kids per employee and the average Spanish worker has 2.5 and you can be sure every time his 2.5 kids gets a cold they are at the local emergency room receiving health care as well as every other benefit the that they either qualify for or can falsify...then you get into how much they spend (return to the economy) and the cost continues to rise.

How the lobby groups ever pushed this agenda of cheap labor past the voting public paints a sad picture of duplicity within politics and the naivety of the US populace as a whole.

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## austinite

Wow. Just noticed this thread. Maybe everyone should take a step back, look at your own history/background and then make more informed ideologies.

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## Far from massive

I know a neighbor of mine was bitching just the other day when I was shooting my rifle at some deer in the backyard...told him all my ancestors did it!

Seriously though, I know that my people immigrated legally worked their asses off and strove to learn the language and ways of America and gain citizenship. Further in my families culture we were always taught to live within our means and not to have children we could not support, marriage with kids were a life long commitment. Government money was something one only turned to when all else had failed not something you took advantage of so that you could have all the things others had already ( cars, I phones, houses etc.) it really bothers me that those who come here and have contributed nothing either themselves or their ancestors feel that the government owes them something already.

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## austinite

I really don't oppose anyone's ideology. Everyone is free to feel however they want to feel about immigration. My point is that people complain about immigrants "Not because they're Mexican", but because they don't want to do certain jobs or can't speak english very well, or have bad manners as some have stated...

Well guess what? lol, I have met very very very few fellow Americans that are willing to do anything for work, that have manners and that speak good English. A simple 15 minute trip to the grocery store and I run into 10 idiots I can do without. 

So in all honesty, to me, most people complaining about their manners and lack of education are merely avoiding the "Not because they're Mexican" statement, in order to avoid having to overcome objections with respect to racism. People can hide it all they want, all day long... not everyone is stupid enough to believe it. These folks simply found a way to believe it themselves, that they're not racist. Kind of like a liar, who keeps lying constantly until he believes his own lies. Simply in denial, because we're at a stage in life where too many people would object to the ideology. 

If an illegal Mexican immigrant pulled ones drowning daughter out of a pool and saved her life, would one spit in his face? 

You both bleed red... I love my country, and I hate war. But I also hate soccer, but I'll root for America if they play. That's why I support our troops, even if I think a war is unjust. 

Back to securing borders, I would just reiterate what jimmy said, get us the hell out of the worthless middle east and bring them home. 

Did you guys know that over 80% of border patrol are of Mexican descent? Did you know that many of them are illegal aliens? Take a drive down to El Paso, you won't understand most of them.

*This post was just a ramble, not directed at anyone in this thread.*

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## Flagg

As much as I love Australia, I find it's politics very xenophobic. 

But its the same everywhere, people that come to Australia to work are often said to be much, MUCH harder working than Australians themselves. 

This isn't to suggest that Australians are lazy, its suggests that nationals of ALL COUNTRIES completely take what they have for granted.

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## zaggahamma

I can clearly attest that there are lazy immigrants and lazy nationalists and hard-working of each as well and imo its just another stereotype 

Immigration laws should be the same world wide

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## Armykid93

I'm bringing this thread back because I see new faces and I love debates and I love other people's opinions, hearing others thought process has often times helped me form my own opinions! What do you think about illegal immigration?

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## RigPig

> I'm bringing this thread back because I see new faces and I love debates and I love other people's opinions, hearing others thought process has often times helped me form my own opinions! What do you think about illegal immigration?


Most of us with decedents from the Old Countries arrived without permission, prospered and gave back to the "new country" properly. 
If people are arriving to start new, leaving the shit behind then Welcome. 
If you're here to bring your 3rd world baggage with you, bye bye. We have enough of our own shit heads to deal with. 
That might be my "white privilege" talking lol.

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## Armykid93

> Most of us with decedents from the Old Countries arrived without permission, prospered and gave back to the "new country" properly. If people are arriving to start new, leaving the shit behind then Welcome. If you're here to bring your 3rd world baggage with you, bye bye. We have enough of our own shit heads to deal with. That might be my "white privilege" talking lol.


After I read white privilege I threw up in my mouth little. I should start a thread on that lol

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## RigPig

> After I read white privilege I threw up in my mouth little. I should start a thread on that lol


There is one going lol, it was kind of my intent to reference that one as well.

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## cgeorgemeow

America will never do anything about immigration issue, because of the power battle between parties and what corporations are behind each. Simply put Dems want them to vote and not work, Reps want them to work but not vote. Rep. biz owners in Texas love illegal aliens, they hire them in mass. Dems want their kids who are born here to vote for them and take the entitlements they give them as a bribe to vote for them. When ever I worked on rigs I always like being on a majority mexican crew in south texas, they could handle the heat and the work not only that they kept their mouth shut and worked no fights. I worked with a crew of east texans all white, laziest , fattest, most drunk, drug using always fighting worthless rig hands I have ever seen. We literally had multiple investigations for murder at our company from the white hands from east texas, they would cut each others srl lines, push each other off from heights or just kill each other in town. From what I see we need them, but not in the numbers we are getting them.

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## wmaousley

> Most of us with decedents from the Old Countries arrived without permission, prospered and gave back to the "new country" properly. 
> If people are arriving to start new, leaving the shit behind then Welcome. 
> If you're here to bring your 3rd world baggage with you, bye bye. We have enough of our own shit heads to deal with. 
> That might be my "white privilege" talking lol.



I couldn't agree more with what you said. I have no room in my life for others (immigrants) religions, cultures etc. If you immigrate to America you best go buy a "How to be American" book for Dummies and read the fvck up. Leave your traditional dress in your country and kiss your past goodbye. The only thing you can bring is your food knowledge. 

LOL when I travel back to the states I am on usually a Qatar Airways or Emirates Flight and these flights usually transit from India, so when it lands in JFK, Dulles, Boston etc, the USDA dog teams are forever ripping through the luggage confiscating illegal food, medication and plants. Its as if these immigrants didn't get the god damn memo when they signed up for 'Merica. SO I am usually waiting an extra hour on the USDA/FDA because of these people and its a fvcking burden. I usually get pissed and make comments like (are you sure you aren't supposed to fly into Canada) the they look at me and have no clue how to speak English. Give me a god damn break, learn the language before you come.

What is the criteria now to immigrate to the US? For the most part the Indian immigrants do own and operate their own business when they come to the states/Canada so this makes me feel good to see people are able to come to the states and "live the dream", the main problem I have with immigration is with the freeloaders who come to the US to live off of our tax dollars. 

I think 330 million people is enough and we need to stop before we are like China and have so many people that we cant afford to live.

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## Armykid93

Agree with the above for sure. In Oregon illegal immigration has put a massive strain the healthcare system. Pretty sad really.

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## lovbyts

I heard a report recently that the legal immigration is taking 1 - 1 1/2 years longer now due to the backlog because the illegal immigrants get priority.

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## Armykid93

> I heard a report recently that the legal immigration is taking 1 - 1 1/2 years longer now due to the backlog because the illegal immigrants get priority.


 doesn't surprise me, everything about America is backward these days

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## RA

I say adopt the Mexican policy on immigration. You try to sneak in you get shot.

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## RigPig

> I say adopt the Mexican policy on immigration. You try to sneak in you get shot.


Not too many guys would line up to get the job shooting women & children looking for a better, safer life.

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## RA

Agreed bro but we do have to do something eventually. The US is 17 trillion in debt with record unemployment. We are the next Greece...





> Not too many guys would line up to get the job shooting women & children looking for a better, safer life.

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## zaggahamma

They can enforce the border without killing em like stated earlier or in another thread its like they dont want to

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## RigPig

> Agreed bro but we do have to do something eventually. The US is 17 trillion in debt with record unemployment. We are the next Greece...


I'm not a U.S. Citizen but the 17trlion in debt doesn't come from the Immigrants.
Piss poor management from the top, dirty politics, and continually printing new money to Hyper-inflate the market are all major contributing factors

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## RA

I wont argue with that but at this point we don't need more mouths to feed. The reason Democrats want them so bad is so they can get them into the welfare system. More people reliant on the govt=democrat voters. That just leads to more of the failed policies that put us here. 





> I'm not a U.S. Citizen but the 17trlion in debt doesn't come from the Immigrants.
> Piss poor management from the top, dirty politics, and continually printing new money to Hyper-inflate the market are all major contributing factors

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## Armykid93

> I wont argue with that but at this point we don't need more mouths to feed. The reason Democrats want them so bad is so they can get them into the welfare system. More people reliant on the govt=democrat voters. That just leads to more of the failed policies that put us here.


Biggest problem IMO. Failed democrat policies. I got it, we need to help people. But when do we draw the line? I mean holy hell, 17 trillion. That's a lot of greenbacks.

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## RA

US is very charitable but that's drying up too. People just don't have the money anymore. If we have a capitalist market with low taxes then we can afford to be all things to all people again. 




> Biggest problem IMO. Failed democrat policies. I got it, we need to help people. But when do we draw the line? I mean holy hell, 17 trillion. That's a lot of greenbacks.

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## Armykid93

> US is very charitable but that's drying up too. People just don't have the money anymore. If we have a capitalist market with low taxes then we can afford to be all things to all people again.


Don't forget that we have the all time record for citizen leaches.

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