# COMPETITIVE BODYBUILDING - POWERLIFTING - ATHLETICS & SPORTS > POWERLIFTING FORUM >  Sheiko

## Skyler

I know most people here are into general fitness, but I know there are also bodybuilders, and least of all, powerlifters. 
It is that time of year again, and my training has just shifted back to powerlifting for upcoming meets this fall. 
I have always just freestyled my training in powerlifting and saw good results. 
I trained with Ron Palmer for awhile and although I learned equipment pretty well, my raw power went down, which was no good since I compete raw. 
I have had an open invitation to train with Rocky Tilson, but I can't get to where he is regularly enough. 
I have hung out with a few WPO champions and picked their brains for awhile to help give me an over all good idea of how to approach the three big lifts. People like Kara Bohigan, Dondell Blue, Tony Conyers, Ron Palmer, Rocky Tilson, Dr. Latch, Nick Winters, and some others. 

Anyway, when this time of year comes around, I usually start thinking about following a pre written routine for maximum gains. I looked at Westside stuff, and it is just far too complicated, and involves too much band, chain, shirt, suit, etc work. 

I have always been a BIG FAN of Russian EVERYTHING. I found a system of Russian Strength Training developed by Boris Sheiko that is simply refered to as "Sheiko Training". 

It seems solid, I just started it and like it alot so far, and I have read good reviews. 

WELL!!!!!! Since I really respect alot of the members here, and their knowledge on all aspects of training, I wanted to know what you guys had to say about Sheiko training or even just good Strength Routines/Methods in general. 

Any advice would be apreciated

Oh, right now these are my current stats:
Age:21
Height: 5'10"
Weight: 195lbs
Bench Press: 395lbs
Deadlift: 500lbs
Squat: 405lbs

These lifts are completely raw, no suits, shirts, wraps of any kind, etc. 
On my squat, I currently do shoulder width stance, ass to grass (I literally sit on my ankles and pause in the hole before going back up). Deadlift is also conventional, not sumo. 

I am hoping for a national record in bench press, My class is Junior 198lbs and the National Raw Record Bench Press is 385. I can do 395 touch and go, but i want to get even more, so I can be sure I can do at least 390 clean competition style.

THANKS GUYS!

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## ubiq

I think you are overcompliacating your lifting ability. Sheiko works on your strengths, through heavy volume, which basically means if you are already a well seasoned lifter, you should respond well.

Other than your bench press, it seems you have some weaknesses to conquer in the lifts, which Sheiko may or may not help with. If you decide to do Westside, it may help fix your weaknesses. One thing that works well under the ME phase is to do a new exercise every week, so that your body doesn't get used to it, causing your muscles to overload and thus, get stronger with a better strength translation to your lifts.

Weakness-comp style benching
Work on-board press, floor press, speed,etc

Weakness-lockout on dead
Work on rack pull, speed deads, etc

Weakness-speed out of hole (squat)
work on box squats, GM, etc

These are just some stuff I pulled out of my head so I hope this helps.

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## Mr.Rose

Start off with style #29.

http://www.elitefts.com/sheiko/

If you are not prepared to move this up and do this over several months, i don't think shieko will do much good otherwise.

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## Skyler

I don't want to do westside stuff, because from everyone I have talked to about it, the basic idea is that unless you are at westside, working with them, than you really can't replicate the training, so you won't see much results. Plus, as i stated before, I am an all raw lifter. I do not want to train on a program that is designed for equipped lifters. Not to mention, my gym does not have bands, chains, etc. And I am not going to spend about a grand on all the equipment I would need just so i can follow a routine i don't agree with. 
As far as my squat and deadlift being weak, well, thats a bit harsh. I mean, my squat is 405, but that is shoulder width, ass to grass, pause in the bottom, and it is all raw. No suit, no knee wraps, no belt, etc. If i go wide stance and just hit parallel, I can get 500. 
I don't have much excuse for my deadlift except that I have only been able to do squat and deadlift since march, when I got back from active duty. In the Army, you do ZERO training for lower body. So when I got home in march, my max squat was 275, and my max deadlift was 385. So considering I have added 130 lbs to my squat, and 120 lbs to my deadlift in just 5 months, and I have not been training for power at all in that time, I feel good about where I am at right now, because I am still seeing consistant results, so i know I will continue to get stronger, especially now that I am actually training for strength. 

Oh and Rosie, that is actually what I just started last week! I am doing Sheiko 29, and since last week I have already added 10lbs to my bench, and 30lbs to my squat.

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## BgMc31

> I don't want to do westside stuff, because from everyone I have talked to about it, the basic idea is that unless you are at westside, working with them, than you really can't replicate the training, so you won't see much results. Plus, as i stated before, I am an all raw lifter. I do not want to train on a program that is designed for equipped lifters. Not to mention, my gym does not have bands, chains, etc. And I am not going to spend about a grand on all the equipment I would need just so i can follow a routine i don't agree with. 
> As far as my squat and deadlift being weak, well, thats a bit harsh. I mean, my squat is 405, but that is shoulder width, ass to grass, pause in the bottom, and it is all raw. No suit, no knee wraps, no belt, etc. If i go wide stance and just hit parallel, I can get 500. 
> I don't have much excuse for my deadlift except that I have only been able to do squat and deadlift since march, when I got back from active duty. In the Army, you do ZERO training for lower body. So when I got home in march, my max squat was 275, and my max deadlift was 385. So considering I have added 130 lbs to my squat, and 120 lbs to my deadlift in just 5 months, and I have not been training for power at all in that time, I feel good about where I am at right now, because I am still seeing consistant results, so i know I will continue to get stronger, especially now that I am actually training for strength. 
> 
> Oh and Rosie, that is actually what I just started last week! I am doing Sheiko 29, and since last week I have already added 10lbs to my bench, and 30lbs to my squat.


Westside does work outside of westside. I actually use a modified westside now and I've made massive gains. And you don't absolutely need chains and bands or gear to train westside. I actually prefer westside because there is less wear and tear on the joints using westside as opposed to Sheiko. But then again, I'm 37 and have beat my body to hell over the last 29 years.

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## CDiesel313

> I know most people here are into general fitness, but I know there are also bodybuilders, and least of all, powerlifters. 
> It is that time of year again, and my training has just shifted back to powerlifting for upcoming meets this fall. 
> I have always just freestyled my training in powerlifting and saw good results. 
> I trained with Ron Palmer for awhile and although I learned equipment pretty well, my raw power went down, which was no good since I compete raw. 
> I have had an open invitation to train with Rocky Tilson, but I can't get to where he is regularly enough. 
> I have hung out with a few WPO champions and picked their brains for awhile to help give me an over all good idea of how to approach the three big lifts. People like Kara Bohigan, Dondell Blue, Tony Conyers, Ron Palmer, Rocky Tilson, Dr. Latch, Nick Winters, and some others. 
> 
> Anyway, when this time of year comes around, I usually start thinking about following a pre written routine for maximum gains.* I looked at Westside stuff, and it is just far too complicated, and involves too much band, chain, shirt, suit, etc work.* 
> 
> ...


This is the most common misconception with the way Westside trains. The whole thing is, Westside isn't a program it is a training style or a template. The reason that you constantly see or read about the bands, chains, boards, equipment is because that is how THEY train at their facility. Again, Westside is a template so this is how they choose to implement the template. Westside, is in fact, based off of a Russian style of training. To sum it up, it is the conjugate style of training. Within this style of training you take the basic template and fill in the blanks as needed to suit your needs. This is why I don't recommend it for beginners unless they are training with people who have experience because since it is a template, there is a lot of room for error in planning your training cycles. Therefore, it can be misconstrued as a program that doesn't work. When in fact, the person didn't know enough about the method in order to properly set it up to begin with.

I currently train Westside style and I don't use any equipment at all. I only use accommodating resistance about half of the time and the other half for DE days I use the repetition method at about 70-80% going by feel. If I use a board for bench press it's only ever a 2 board since I train raw. I got lucky in the fact that when I took up powerlifting a year ago the people who were teaching me already knew a great deal about the style of training. Although, I am just now comfortable enough to make my own programs after using it for a year, reading 50-100 articles and 5 or 6 books. The one upside I will say about Sheiko is it seems to be a little more straight forward. So, I don't know how advanced you are in your training or knowledge regarding implementing the conjugate style of training, but you may be better off following a program that lays things out for you until you learn more about Westside style of training.

Following percentages can be tricky throughout a program though. There's too many variables IMO. If you're having an off day and you can't get your numbers. Or you're feeling great and you know you can go heavier, yet you don't want to deviate from the program. There is a ton more room to play with with Westside. Back to my original point, there is no need for equipment or anything. Accommodating resistance is nice, but not necessary. Don't let that sway you from a great template.

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## uncle_tom

I've used Sheiko and indeed, my raw strength went up pretty good. It worth to give it a try.

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