# STEROIDS FORUM > ANABOLIC STEROIDS - QUESTIONS & ANSWERS >  200 Masteron E + 400 Test E per Week Cycle-Need Input

## Jiraiya

Hello Guys,

This will be for a first cycle other than designer orals and IGF. I am going for a lean bulk and will cycle Test E and Mast E for 12 weeks. Some of the older information says that Masteron E is effective at 200mg per week, while others recommend at least 400. As this is my first cyle, I would like to err on the light side, I just dont want to waste the Masteron E if 200 mg per week is not going to have any effect at this dosage. I will be running this with 400 mg of Test E per week, pinning together in same needle Monday and Thursday. PCT will be standard 40/40/20/20 Nolva and I may incorporate HCG if needed.

Stats:
Age-35
Height-5'6"
Weight-172lbs
Body Fat-12%
Years Training - 20+

Please let me know what you think of the dosing. First hand experience is a plus.

Thanks,

Jiraiya

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## D7M

I'd stick to test only for your first cycle and see how you react. 

Also, I'd throw in some clomid in that pct as well.

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## Lean1038

Don't run Masteron E any less than 400mg weekly. 500 is a good median dosage as I like 500-600 IME.

For a first cycle, I recommend Test E @ 250-300mg for 12 weeks. 

Trust me, you may not need to go higher... ever. It also keeps sides very low with moderate gains.

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## Jiraiya

Thank you gentlemen for your advice. I know everyone recommends ONLY Test for a first cycle and I plan to go with this, but I bloat very easily, mostly in the face. That was my experience with Sdrol and even Epistane and I got enough people asking me if I was on gear or ill because of it that I want to avoid that as much as possible. I chose winter to start because I can wear loose clothing to hide the size gains, but the steroid bloat face is hard to hide. From research, I surmise that I will gain about 15-20 lbs on this cycle and keep about 10lbs of muscle assuming training, diet, and PCT goes well so by spring I can shed the loose clothes and not look overly inflated. I do alot of social work, so my appearance is important. I know I can go with Adex to cut bloat, but this is my first cycle and I want to maximize my gains. I never had an issue with gyno on the designer orals so I would like not to impede impede gains taking adex. I know Masteron E is anti-e but it is also anabolic so it would be a good addition to Test E to keep bloat down and enhance gains. Let me know if you think this is flawed thinking.

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## Jiraiya

> Don't run Masteron E any less than 400mg weekly. 500 is a good median dosage as I like 500-600 IME.
> 
> For a first cycle, I recommend Test E @ 250-300mg for 12 weeks. 
> 
> Trust me, you may not need to go higher... ever. It also keeps sides very low with moderate gains.


Did you run 600 Masterone E with 250-300 Test E? I like the thought of using low Test E, but it seems almost everyone is running at least 400mg a week and keeping the amount of test at least equal or greater than the other gear in the mix.

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## chuckt12345

i wouldnt add the mast if i were you
id just get adex and if you start to bloat use it

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## Lean1038

> Did you run 600 Masterone E with 250-300 Test E? I like the thought of using low Test E, but it seems almost everyone is running at least 400mg a week and keeping the amount of test at least equal or greater than the other gear in the mix.


Yes(500-600mg of Masteron E). In fact, I tried different Test dosages ranging from 250-400mg and didn't see much difference in gains, only sides. So 250mg it is for me. 

I would also run an AI on cycle regardless as Masteron's "Anti Estrogen Properties" shouldn't be soley relied on for that effect. Proviron 's a much better "AI" than Masteron IME.

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## Jiraiya

> Yes(500-600mg of Masteron E). In fact, I tried different Test dosages ranging from 250-400mg and didn't see much difference in gains, only sides. So 250mg it is for me. 
> 
> I would also run an AI on cycle regardless as Masteron's "Anti Estrogen Properties" shouldn't be soley relied on for that effect. Proviron's a much better "AI" than Masteron IME.


Interesting on the Test E. I may try the 250 Test E per week. I already have the Masteron E on hand so I will keep that on standby if I get bloated. I am more concerned about bloat than getting gyno as I do not seem pre-disposed(yet). 

Any others who have tried these doses or this combo, please do share. Thanks!

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## Lean1038

> Interesting on the Test E. I may try the 250 Test E per week. I already have the Masteron E on hand so I will keep that on standby if I get bloated. I am more concerned about bloat than getting gyno as I do not seem pre-disposed(yet). 
> 
> Any others who have tried these doses or this combo, please do share. Thanks!


Aromasin @ 25mg ED will handle any and all bloat with that dosage of Test. Trust me.  :Wink: 

Masteron will simply amplify the effects of the Test and add hardness, strength, aggression, vascularity, and VERY strong libido.

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## Jiraiya

[QUOTE=

Masteron will simply amplify the effects of the Test and add hardness, strength, aggression, vascularity, and VERY strong libido.[/QUOTE]

Lean,
Uh were you trying to dissuade me?! With all these sides, I think I will definitely run Masteron E with my Test. I will update my progress on this cycle. I will consider getting some aromasin in case Masteron does not keep bloat down. I appreciate the input. Thanks!

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## The Deuce

I might get yelled at for this... but I PERSONALLY SEE NOTHING WRONG.. especially at your age, and the fact it technically isn't your first cycle.. apparently you used some orals before?? Well IMO, dude use the MAST E .. but use it right.. 400mgs EW Minimum.. 500 is good, hit that with an equal dose of TEST. Seriously. 12 weeks on that dose, will yield excellent results if you know how to properly eat. AAS aren't a miracle cure, everything else has to be up to par for them to work properly... so get your diet worked out first and go for it bro.. MASTERONE is a very very MILD compound, with not many sides at all...

and to the person suggesting 250-300mgs of Test per week.. what are you nuts?? At his age, his Natty test should long since been declining.. 500 per week minimum... at the dose you recommended that's BARELY past TRT dosing... he's looking to CYCLE.. not REPLACE what should naturally be there.. YOU HAVE TO TAKE INTO ALL VARIABLES when giving advice.. for someone who is 25 and doing their first cycle.. yah i could see 300mgs EW being a so-so starting point.. but not for someone a decade older.

OP.. Go for it bro, 500 of Test E , 400-500 of MAST E .. Two Injects per week.. every 3.5 days respectively... start PCT 2 weeks after last shot.. NOLVA/CLOMID therapy should work fine.. in the 2 weeks you are waiting to start your PCT in .. maybe throw in some HCG at 250iu's daily to kickstart them testes if you so desire.. or better yet .. run the HCG the whole cycle length at 500iu's twice per week on the same days as your injections...

That's MY OPINION.. and I am sticking to it.

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## redz

I get no sides with test upto 800mg/week, 250mg per week is too low even for a first cycle that is basically a TRT dose. 500mg/week is an ideal starting point. I wouldnt bother with the Masteron for now save it for another cycle.

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## Jiraiya

> I might get yelled at for this... but I PERSONALLY SEE NOTHING WRONG.. especially at your age, and the fact it technically isn't your first cycle.. apparently you used some orals before?? Well IMO, dude use the MAST E .. but use it right.. 400mgs EW Minimum.. 500 is good, hit that with an equal dose of TEST. Seriously. 12 weeks on that dose, will yield excellent results if you know how to properly eat. AAS aren't a miracle cure, everything else has to be up to par for them to work properly... so get your diet worked out first and go for it bro.. MASTERONE is a very very MILD compound, with not many sides at all...
> 
> and to the person suggesting 250-300mgs of Test per week.. what are you nuts?? At his age, his Natty test should long since been declining.. 500 per week minimum... at the dose you recommended that's BARELY past TRT dosing... he's looking to CYCLE.. not REPLACE what should naturally be there.. YOU HAVE TO TAKE INTO ALL VARIABLES when giving advice.. for someone who is 25 and doing their first cycle.. yah i could see 300mgs EW being a so-so starting point.. but not for someone a decade older.
> 
> OP.. Go for it bro, 500 of Test E , 400-500 of MAST E .. Two Injects per week.. every 3.5 days respectively... start PCT 2 weeks after last shot.. NOLVA/CLOMID therapy should work fine.. in the 2 weeks you are waiting to start your PCT in .. maybe throw in some HCG at 250iu's daily to kickstart them testes if you so desire.. or better yet .. run the HCG the whole cycle length at 500iu's twice per week on the same days as your injections...
> 
> That's MY OPINION.. and I am sticking to it.


Thank you for the suggestion, but man you made me feel old :Tear:  . I guess in my head I'm always 25. I had my Testosterone tested a couple months back and it was 480 with a reference range of 200 - 1100. It was not free testosterone, just total. I dont know if that is good or bad for my age but I know over the years my aggression has gone done and my energy is down, except when I was on Superdrol. I just know I am envious of the 35 and older guys on here saying they have 800+ .

I am on the fence until I start next week. Tear it up and go balls out, or take it slow. I have a solid foundation as I have trained for 20+ years, its just that I have plateaud. There are just so many theories and opinions about first cycles its hard to figure out. I dont want to waste the gear by taking too little, but then I do not want to take more than I need because gear is not cheap and I dont want to be forever taking 500 mg when I could be taking 300 mg and saving almost 50%. 

Thanks for the help, and feel free to ad more suggestions.

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## Lean1038

> I might get yelled at for this... but I PERSONALLY SEE NOTHING WRONG.. especially at your age, and the fact it technically isn't your first cycle.. apparently you used some orals before?? Well IMO, dude use the MAST E .. but use it right.. 400mgs EW Minimum.. 500 is good, hit that with an equal dose of TEST. Seriously. 12 weeks on that dose, will yield excellent results if you know how to properly eat. AAS aren't a miracle cure, everything else has to be up to par for them to work properly... so get your diet worked out first and go for it bro.. MASTERONE is a very very MILD compound, with not many sides at all...
> 
> and to the person suggesting 250-300mgs of Test per week.. what are you nuts?? At his age, his Natty test should long since been declining.. 500 per week minimum... at the dose you recommended that's BARELY past TRT dosing... he's looking to CYCLE.. not REPLACE what should naturally be there.. YOU HAVE TO TAKE INTO ALL VARIABLES when giving advice.. for someone who is 25 and doing their first cycle.. yah i could see 300mgs EW being a so-so starting point.. but not for someone a decade older.
> 
> OP.. Go for it bro, 500 of Test E , 400-500 of MAST E .. Two Injects per week.. every 3.5 days respectively... start PCT 2 weeks after last shot.. NOLVA/CLOMID therapy should work fine.. in the 2 weeks you are waiting to start your PCT in .. maybe throw in some HCG at 250iu's daily to kickstart them testes if you so desire.. or better yet .. run the HCG the whole cycle length at 500iu's twice per week on the same days as your injections...
> 
> That's MY OPINION.. and I am sticking to it.


No disrespect here bro, but I think your logic is reversed. A younger male with higher levels of natural testosterone would require MORE test to surpass that of which he's producing, but an older man with lower levels wouldn't need as much to see solid gains. 

There's no sense in using more than what you need IMHO. All that does is aid in increasing sides. 

To the OP: Run 300mg weekly and bump your Masteron to 500-600mg. You'll be glad you did.  :Wink:

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## Jiraiya

> No disrespect here bro, but I think your logic is reversed. A younger male with higher levels of natural testosterone would require MORE test to surpass that of which he's producing, but an older man with lower levels wouldn't need as much to see solid gains. 
> 
> There's no sense in using more than what you need IMHO. All that does is aid in increasing sides. 
> 
> To the OP: Run 300mg weekly and bump your Masteron to 500-600mg. You'll be glad you did.


Lean, that seems to be a logical perspective as well. There seems to be a definite split in thinking between the "More is Better" and the "Conservative" users. 
Lean, what are your stats and why did you decide to run your test lower? What was your reason for running Masteron, just cutting? They seem to be synergestic as the Masteron frees up bound test and has anti-e properties thus the leaning and vascularity effects. I am bald(naturally-thanks mom) and never had Gyno problems so those issues are not of concern.
If I start at 300, how long do I wait before I say, "Its not working" and double the dose? 
When did you feel it working?
Thank you for your input.

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## Lean1038

> Lean, that seems to be a logical perspective as well. There seems to be a definite split in thinking between the "More is Better" and the "Conservative" users. 
> Lean, what are your stats and why did you decide to run your test lower? What was your reason for running Masteron , just cutting? They seem to be synergestic as the Masteron frees up bound test and has anti-e properties thus the leaning and vascularity effects. I am bald(naturally-thanks mom) and never had Gyno problems so those issues are not of concern.
> If I start at 300, how long do I wait before I say, "Its not working" and double the dose? 
> When did you feel it working?
> Thank you for your input.


Personally, I've learned that I'm sensative to estrogenic sides so I'm glad I chose a lower dosage. 

Anyone in the game will tell you that these compounds only amplify your diet and training. I'm great at both and don't need a lot of gear to surpass my goals. Others may have different goals or "Up the dose" to try to bridge a gap in their routines/techniques. 

Masteron was a great addition to Test just as Proviron . Test kicked in for me during my 4th week, but some don't see it until week 6 or 8. 

I'd start at 300mg and if you're giving it your all and still not seeing what you want, I'd bump up to 400mg during week 8 IMHO.

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