# STEROIDS FORUM > PCT (POST CYCLE THERAPY) >  How much weight can i expect to lose once my cycle is over ( 2 weeks left)

## CuriousGuy

So I am just wondering what to expect I have 2 weeks left of test and var been 22 weeks on and then i start my pct 14 days after my last shot. My PCT is Novla and Clomid an AI and tribulus, while on i have not gained much weight but have lost allot of bf and while the scale doesn't show me anything the mirror and my clothes do.

Also how long before my balls come back to normal I have heard a couple weeks.

My body is hard every muscle is constantly pumped even on days off everything is like a rock I look like a freak I can not believe the transformation my body has taken while running this cycle and how great I look and feel and I still have 2 weeks left or 4 before PCT.

How should I train during PCT should I go lighter more reps , stay heavy and not change anything any advice on the workout routine right now 5 days a week 2 hours a day half cardio / weights. 

I know I am holding some water and once I stop I am supposed to lose some gains and drop allot of water weight what can i expect to see I am clueless as what to expect once off this cycle, what I will lose and what I will keep. I am here to ask some of the professionals their opinion or get their feedback.

So how much weight will I lose and how fast will it come off its obviously not gonna come off over night but its gonna come off not to sound repetitive what can I expect to lose 5-10lbs and continue to slim down as I stay on my routine ? Will I keep my motivation and Drive or will i get lazy and lethargic thanks for reading and taking the time to answer.

I know there are some big guys that are on allot of gear and will try and belittle and be mean and arrogant instead of just answering my question honestly please try and keep it professional and leave your ego's out of the post please just be respectful. I'm here to ask advice and get some feedback , I'm not taking an HCG and do not plan on it I have what I have and that what I am gonna use. Feedback is so appreciated and thank you  :BbAily:

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## CuriousGuy

nobody knows anything here lol ok thanks for the advice being nice gets you know where

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## CuriousGuy

Boom Boom

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## ghettoboyd

maybee no one is answering your question because no one really knows bro you asked such a vage question...how much will you loose?,,,you never told us how much you gained and even if you did everone reacts differently so anyone that answers you would be talking out there ass...not to mention your little comment telling us to leave our attitudes at the door before anyone even commented good or bad is a turn off to trying to help anyone...to me that comment was arrogant...good luck...

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## adamjames

you will lose it all or go back to slightly above what you could have achieved naturally once your hormone levels return to normal

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## gixxerboy1

like ghetto said its impossible to answer.
also it depends how well you recover. And being a 22 week cycle it may be hard to recover or you may not. Did you use hcg on cycle?

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## DanB

> like ghetto said its impossible to answer.
> also it depends how well you recover. And being a 22 week cycle it may be hard to recover or you may not. *Did you use hcg on cycle*?


I think he implied that he had no interest in using hcg so I doubt he used it on cycle, 

You might want to reconsider that mate, hcg is key to recovery from long cycles and a moderate dose daily the week before you start your pct will make a massive difference

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## CuriousGuy

> I think he implied that he had no interest in using hcg so I doubt he used it on cycle, 
> 
> You might want to reconsider that mate, hcg is key to recovery from long cycles and a moderate dose daily the week before you start your pct will make a massive difference


I have not taken HCG while on cycle and I also can not get it so its out of the question, Cant find it , source is gone and its just not available as an option I am going to Mexico this week so I will look for HCG but I am not relying on mexico as a source but like i said I will look. 
I have Novladex , Clomid and an AI. I haven't had any problem in the past with returning to normal but I have been off cycle now for about 6 years so I've been on now for 22 weeks. 

I haven't gained much weight at all I have maintained my 220 -222lbs but I much more solid now and running the Anavar I am like a rock and my var is going to run 7-10 days longer than my last shot of Test from what I have read about the Var is gains are permanent and correct me if I am wrong professionals I am running 50mgs a day for the past 30 days with 21 days left . 

I have read that with the PCT I am on I can expect to lose 5-10lbs of water weight and can expect to keep my gains provided I stick with the gym and continue to eat clean and stick to my pct I have set up. I dont see how in the hell I would lose every muscle I gained and the size I see in myself in the mirror and from my wife and all that will turn to fat and my muscle will turn to fat and ill just be a blob I think that is complete horseshit and utterly false muscle doesn't turn to fat first of all which I am sure we all know and there is no way in Hell that what I have gained will disappear once I am finished unless I just sit on my ass and eat cheesecake and cookies over the next months I can see that being true.

Before I started I was just weak and Fat now Im thinner although the scale doesnt show it my my clothes say so and the mirror , I was baffled I didnt lose any weight but why would I on gear training like an animal , I am constantly in a state of being pumped even when I am not on the gym and on my days off. I am curious how much weight I will lose when I am done water weight which I understand is pretty normal and I will keep the gains. I could be wrong and your right and I will lose everything I just dont see how that is possible though.

The comment to leave your attitudes and egos and im the man your a dope why did you do a cycle dick your an idiot attitude at the door is its counter productive who needs a jerk off trying to belittle you when your looking for advice my cycle is over so don't criticize it to you feed your ego , help and advise like a normal human being with some respect and decency thats all I am asking.

Thanks for the advice guys and reading the thread .

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## CuriousGuy

Can I use Drops instead of Injections ?

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## Flier

If u hold water u will loose some in PCT.
If u loose muscle will depend on your training and diet.
Harder to come back from 22 weeks than 10 , right? So do a solid PCT, and don´t let the PCT moodswings/depression/letharginess keep u out of the gym.
U will loose that pumped/jacked feeling in and outside the gym, as you know.

The one reason you might loose what u gained is "Before I started I was just weak and fat". There is a reason for why you were weak and fat before your cycle, and that reason will bring you right back to being weak and fat once your cycle is over, unless you change your habits.

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## CuriousGuy

My habits are changed , and i wouldn't say fat but just out of shape and and not in the gym I always had the muscle it was just in a dormant state when my wife was pregnant I was eating and sleeping and not active and working from home so I just got lazy not to mention my diet was crap, the minute I hit the gym within a week I was strong and back to doing 60 minutes of cardio a day. 

What about the Var I have been running its supposed to give you solid permanent gains which is what I feel my arms are like rocks, I mean if I train the way I am after im done I should still feel that pumped feeling no thats the purpose of working out to feel the pump in each muscle? 

My PCT is good AI, Novla and Clomid plus Tribulus , I take Xanex for anxiety so mood swings have never really been a problem that much. My mind is so fixed on what I want and am looking for and I really want to lose some of the weight im 220 im looking to get to 175 so I dont plan on stopping training or lifting . 

Ill never go back to weak and fat , Slim and cut is what im looking for I am hoping i drop 10 lbs when I stop the gear slim down and keep the gains, My last cycle kept me strong and my pct was weak as hell this time I am prepared allot better. 

What do you think and thanks for the advice

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## Flier

Yes, I get the same on Var. Didn´t keep my gains because I let my diet slide on vacation after cycle. Nothing is permanent, all depends on diet.
As your Test plummets during PCT you will loose your "Pump" and some of your hardness. 2mg Vit C ED may do a little in preventing the catabolic post cycle effect which will soften u a bit.
I hear u on HCG . Next time, use it.
I don´t understand your stats. You are 220, hard as a rock, yet your goal is 175?
Post your stats.
Skip the AI in PCT as Nolva will bind the receptors and do the job.

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## CuriousGuy

Im 220 lbs 5'10 when I started I was 5'10 220 lbs I have not gained a lb or lost a pound I was just real soft and this is the biggest I have been in a long time. I have obviously been burning fat and I have maintained my 220 my goal was to lose weight to begin with but while on the gear it was obvious it wasnt happening as I was putting on muscle it was compensating for the fat loss so my weight stayed the same not to mention the water retention I am holding. 

I expect to drop weight once I have stopped with all the gear I am on water weight some muscle loss but I am hoping not that much as I am going to keep training hard and working the muscles till they burn and with cardio I am hoping to slim down and get cut right now I am just big and bulky not slim and cut which I am fine with for now but my goal is 175lbs Cut up , I am still carrying some trunk fat around my mid section as I have not lost my stomach but everything else is where I want it.

You say take vitamin C ED I take a multi vitamin everyday already which contains Vit C so do I need to take more that that ? 

I try and stick with a high protein Diet but I cant see how if you eat and go to the gym how you can get soft and flabby that just makes no sense to me if your training how can you lose what you gianed unless your vacation was a year and you were eating cheesecake , pizza and drinking alot of beer and just being plain lazy yes I can see you would lose everything and anything you had gained weather on or off gear your going to lose muscle. 


What stats do you need Ill post them up ..... 

Thanks again your help and conversation has been awesome and greatly appreciated !

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## CuriousGuy

So am I going to lose everything whats the sense of doing gear in the first place ?

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## Flier

Hehe...no
You can keep all as long as you keep your cals up and train hard (short sessions)
And most of all restart your HPTA as soon as possible.
Right now you are highly Anabolic .
When your Testosterone takes a nosedive after cycle, your Catabolic Hormones (Cortisol) will "dominate". You can reduce this with Vit C, amongst many things.
Read up on how to avoid Catabolic state (Diet, rest, sleep, short training sessions)
In a Catabolic state you are "wasting", Anabolic you are building.
Btw...you probably stopped benefiting from your cycle a few weeks ago. You should end your cycle now. Running for 22 weeks without increasing your doses is a waste as the cons outway the pros.
You probably have a real high BF.
Diet and cardio will do the trick. Maybe do some Clen cycles. Look into Clen which also has some anti-Catabolic effect. Lot of guys use it during PCT.

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## Flier

IMO the majority of people who cycle AAS loose all their gains.
It is too hard to stay dedicated. And changes in our personal lives will interfere with the sport.
There are "the other kind" which we have several of on this board, which with great dedication, time, and money will reek long term benefits from their cycles and keep gaining from each one. Go to the diet section and see how they eat....they are in a league of their own.
I ended at 250lbs/10% BF from my last cycle. There was absolutely no way I could keep up with the eating, rest, and training to maintain those stats.

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## CuriousGuy

Just got back from the gym so that's somewhat of a relief knowing that Im not going to lose what I have been working my ass off to gain. I have plenty of time to dedicate to my body and training after this cycle not much standing in my way so I have no excuse to slip up other than just being lazy but that is something I am not I feel so good and incredible and they way my body is shaping up and the way it looks feels amazing.

Funny you mention Clen I was looking at buying some last night, if you suggest it then I will get some so long as it does not make me too speedy, Do you think its a good choice for me? I am using NOXplode and that gives me alot of energy I take that pre workout not the same as clen but just figured id share what I am taking. I have some Formeron have you heard of it before its a transdermal 4-Hydroxyandrostenedione 50mg for PCT from Black Lion Research It was recomended by someone else in these forums and I bought some tribulas too.

My BF isn't that bad just in my stomach but its shrinking every day and I am sure once I stop and PCT when I lose the water weight ill look a little less puffy and a little leaner correct me if I am wrong . 

I have one shot left Im gonna slam it next week 2cc's id rather not waste it , and there was something I left out of this post that would cause alot of people to curse me out call me an idiot and a bunch of other things but I guess I can tell you since you have given me great advice so far and seem like an overall knowledgeable and good guy trying to help. I said this was my second vial of testosterone well prior to this vial I was on my first vial and i was on HGH somotrophin, I did not go to the gym one time while on 4 months of gh and 1 vial of test. Why you ask I can make a ton of excuses on of the biggest ones was the birth of my son , a few business trips and some health problems I had along with a few surgeries on my arm but I stayed on the gear instead of stopping it like an idiot and at the time I was on it I had no planned PCT and no gear so I didnt want to stop cold turkey with no after care plan so I stuck with it. Once I was healthy and ready which was the time I got my second vial I started in the gym and have been dedicated and training hard ever since and dont plan on stopping. 

So I did some reading on how to avoid a catabolic state and all are pretty much the same (Eat , Sleep, Dont Over Train , Vit C, Eat before and after the gym ) just like you said. When should I take the vitamin C is there a specific time you sugest ?

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## CuriousGuy

I will do anything to not lose my gains I don't care what I have to do or buy.

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## Flier

I didn´t mention HGH because most people can´t afford it, or can´t get their hands on the real stuff.
But u say u used Soma. How do u get it? (Don´t mention sources, u have a script?) I ask because there are a lot of fakes out there.
How long did u use? Why did u quit?
U obviously should have continued Soma through your cycle, PCT and beyond. It´s the Cadillac of Hormones. Muscle synthesis, metabolism, anti-catabolic, AAS synergy. Can u get more? Baby formula, car seat, stroller, college tuition programs can wait. Priorities!
(I have a script myself, but so fvcking expensive to fill, I buy Generic for 1/6 of the price instead. However....Marcus convinced me to dig deep in my pockets and fill my script from now on, so I will)

Take C whenever u want.
Get some ZMA.

There are some very knowledgable members here, one of them may have suggested Formeron in PCT. So just double-check with that person, cause Formeron is a PH. It converts to Testosterone . The whole idea of PCT is to stimulate your HPTA to produce it´s own.

I don´t believe in Trib, but go ahead, it´s not gonna hurt you. One of those hyped up Herbs geared towards mens erection/libido. Does nothing for stimulating Testosterone production, does nothing on the HPTA. A marketing success story.

Clen will make u "speedy". I´m sitting here shaking as a leaf on 120mcg/day.

Re pre workout sups like No explode, Jack, 1MR. Stay away IMO. The L-arginine, Taurine, GABA is ok, but the caffeine, guarana, and other adrenaline stimulating effects not ok. Adrenaline is the "stress hormone" and is to be avoided at all cost. Adrenaline has a negative effect on LH and a positive effect on the release of Cortisol (Catabolic) which u don´t want. Adrenaline and Cortisol is only meant to be released under unique circumstances (fight/flight), and not on a daily basis. The result can be a host of health problems (Stress).
We live in the most stressful millennium ever induced by technology, social expectations, unnatural living conditions (cities). We eat crap full of hormones, antibiotics, and pesticides. So be at least selective on what supplements to add.

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## CuriousGuy

I have a couple of connections to get the soma its legit and I trust the guys I get my gear from one of them gets a script and gives to me because he owes me money.
I was on 4 months 2iu's a day , quit because I ran out and money got tight so I couldn't afford it anymore, I would have loved to stay on it for 6-12 months. But I plan on getting a large supply in 6 months when I get my settlement unless my doc gives it to me first I am seeing him as soon as my insurance to comes in. I want to run a second cycle of test at that time too and var or winny but that's down the road.

But for now I want to get this pct under control and keep my size and drop some weight get cut up.

Bought C and ZMA read alot about tribulus so figured Id try it.

For the Formeron http://www.blacklionresearch.com/formeron.html

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## CuriousGuy

Hahah... Its all about my son now too he is top priority , I am #2 my wife comes in 3rd  :Smilie:

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## gixxerboy1

gains from var are no more permanent then gains from any other steroid . Muscle is muscle it doesnt matter how you got it.
Your stats have alot to do with what you can keep off cycle.
i cant hold 200lbs no matter what i do if i come off. Its just to much with out a extra hormones to hold it.
Everyone puts on different amounts of water. So cant say how much you will loose. 
You will loose some of the pumps and hardness.

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## CuriousGuy

> gains from var are no more permanent then gains from any other steroid . Muscle is muscle it doesnt matter how you got it.
> Your stats have alot to do with what you can keep off cycle.
> i cant hold 200lbs no matter what i do if i come off. Its just to much with out a extra hormones to hold it.
> Everyone puts on different amounts of water. So cant say how much you will loose. 
> You will loose some of the pumps and hardness.


Thanks Gixer appreciate the advice , I expect I will lose some weight actually what I am hoping for but I keep my gains and just slim up a little. From what I have read most its between 5-10 lbs could be more or could be less.

I will probably lose some of the pumps and hardness but at the same time if I work the muscle properly and eat right I should feel that pump and tightness in my muscle the following day or otherwise I wouldnt be working the muscle properly is that true or untrue. No way around it I have to come off cycle for a few months so I am just trying to stay solid and in shape and not soft and weak. Some people say its all in your mind haha not sure how true that is but I am just going to keep on keeping on. I do want to lose BF & Weight and get around the 180 area so we will see.

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## Turkish Juicer

You guys all missed a point in terms of retainable muscle gains: your choice of gear in long cycles is also a great determinant of how much muscle you will be able to hold on to. 

The more anabolic your gear is, and the longer you run it with a seriously high protein intake during the cycle, the more retainable muscle you will end up in the long run. You cannot ignore the role of muscle memory and muscle maturity in terms of retaining muscle in the long term. A prolonged cycle that includes high doses of a highly anabolic compound with very high protein intake is exactly the key for establishing stronger muscle memory and muscle maturity in the long run. 

gixxerboy1, with all due respect, I very much disagree with your statement above that ''gains from var are no more permanent then gains from any other steroid . Muscle is muscle it doesnt matter how you got it.'' This is just too bold. 

As I completely agree with you on that no gains from AAS are permanent in the infinite sense of the word, some AAS certainly provides users with relatively more permanent gains than others. In my experience, Primobolan Depot and Anavar is certainly amongst these compounds, if not the frontier compounds that provide users with retainable gains. 

When it comes to how much muscle one can retain in the long run, there is a vast difference of running Test alone for 22 weeks at an incremented dose and running it stacked with an highly anabolic compound such as Primo and/or Var. Yes, it is the diet and the training as well as dedication and discipline; and you are absolutely right about impossibility of holding onto cycle gains without all the extra hormones that were there during the cycle. But, choice of gear also makes a difference and I think any vet knows about this.

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## gixxerboy1

> gixxerboy1, with all due respect, I very much disagree with your statement above that ''gains from var are no more permanent then gains from any other steroid. Muscle is muscle it doesnt matter how you got it.''


why would 10lbs gained from a var cycle be more permanent then 10lbs from a test only cycle on the same person?

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## Flier

The gains from Var is more "permanent" than Test because u loose more waterweight after a Test cycle, ie it seems the Var gains are more solid.
How fast you recover your HPTA and how anti-catabolic you stay will determine the keeps, not the compound you ran.

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## DeadlyD

I read somewhere that at the end of a cycle or the beginning of PCT I could help to stop lifting for 2weeks then hit weights hard during PCT and actually make gains on PCT ! Is there any truth to this?

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## Sgt. Hartman

> The gains from Var is more "permanent" than Test because u loose more waterweight after a Test cycle, ie it seems the Var gains are more solid.
> How fast you recover your HPTA and how anti-catabolic you stay will determine the keeps, not the compound you ran.


^^^Exactly. People think their gains from var or primo are more solid or permanent because they don't lose water at the end of cycle. Gains to me are LBM, nothing more, water retention is not gains. 

There is no steroid that causes more permanent gains than others, all things being equal.

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## gixxerboy1

> The gains from Var is more "permanent" than Test because u loose more waterweight after a Test cycle, ie it seems the Var gains are more solid.
> How fast you recover your HPTA and how anti-catabolic you stay will determine the keeps, not the compound you ran.


im not talking water weight. But actual muscle gained

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## Flier

> im not talking water weight. But actual muscle gained


Yes, my post was in agreement with your statement.
I just worded it a little backwards.

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## DeadlyD

> I read somewhere that at the end of a cycle or the beginning of PCT I could help to stop lifting for 2weeks then hit weights hard during PCT and actually make gains on PCT ! Is there any truth to this?


^^^^^anyone

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## Sgt. Hartman

No. You do need to lower your intensity and/or volume during pct but I don't see any benefit in taking 2 weeks off of training right before or during pct.

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## CuriousGuy

Thanks guys had to catch up , this blew up a little bit I am super glad you all posted with your opinions as it relates keeping gains. Muscle is Muscle I don't see how you can lose it provided you follow your diet and and keep working out. Im going to run my PCT and just keep maintaining , next week is my last shot the 14 days preceding my PCT when should I start lowering my intensity? Ill be running about a week an a half of var after my last shot of test too right before my PCT.

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## CuriousGuy

Where is the water stored ? Face , Muscles all over ?

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## CuriousGuy

> You guys all missed a point in terms of retainable muscle gains: your choice of gear in long cycles is also a great determinant of how much muscle you will be able to hold on to. 
> 
> The more anabolic your gear is, and the longer you run it with a seriously high protein intake during the cycle, the more retainable muscle you will end up in the long run. You cannot ignore the role of muscle memory and muscle maturity in terms of retaining muscle in the long term. A prolonged cycle that includes high doses of a highly anabolic compound with very high protein intake is exactly the key for establishing stronger muscle memory and muscle maturity in the long run. 
> 
> gixxerboy1, with all due respect, I very much disagree with your statement above that ''gains from var are no more permanent then gains from any other steroid . Muscle is muscle it doesnt matter how you got it.'' This is just too bold. 
> 
> As I completely agree with you on that no gains from AAS are permanent in the infinite sense of the word, some AAS certainly provides users with relatively more permanent gains than others. In my experience, Primobolan Depot and Anavar is certainly amongst these compounds, if not the frontier compounds that provide users with retainable gains. 
> 
> When it comes to how much muscle one can retain in the long run, there is a vast difference of running Test alone for 22 weeks at an incremented dose and running it stacked with an highly anabolic compound such as Primo and/or Var. Yes, it is the diet and the training as well as dedication and discipline; and you are absolutely right about impossibility of holding onto cycle gains without all the extra hormones that were there during the cycle. But, choice of gear also makes a difference and I think any vet knows about this.


Thanks for the feedback brother and the Var feedback!

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## CuriousGuy

Heading to the gym !

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## jimmyinkedup

> I think any vet knows about this.


As a vet one thing I do know is alot of people read about shit, then talk shit.
Then, of course, there are other guys who know about AND do shit - then talk about it.
I know whos opinions I respect. Something I've learned as a vet.

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## CuriousGuy

> As a vet one thing I do know is alot of people read about shit, then talk shit.
> Then, of course, there are other guys who know about AND do shit - then talk about it.
> I know whos opinions I respect. Something I've learned as a vet.


So whats your take on the feedback I am looking for , I would love to hear it please chime in....... It means allot to me thanks

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## Turkish Juicer

> As a vet one thing I do know is alot of people read about shit, then talk shit.
> Then, of course, there are other guys who know about AND do shit - then talk about it.
> I know whos opinions I respect. Something I've learned as a vet.


You do not need to beat around to bush to make a point. No need to be so touchy either.

I made myself very clear in my post above while trying to make a point for CuriousGuy, explaining my perspective on some compounds with highly anabolic in nature and why I think they provide users with more retainable muscle mass in the long run as opposed to some others compounds that are by far more androgenic than anabolic in their compositions. You have absolutely no right to give me shit for not having agreed with the points I made. Grow up! 

You are distorting the subject in this thread by turning it into a personal matter, try not to. 

Thanks.

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## CuriousGuy

Thank you Turkish !

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## Flier

> Thanks guys had to catch up , this blew up a little bit I am super glad you all posted with your opinions as it relates keeping gains. Muscle is Muscle I don't see how you can lose it provided you follow your diet and and keep working out. Im going to run my PCT and just keep maintaining , next week is my last shot the 14 days preceding my PCT when should I start *lowering my intensity?* Ill be running about a week an a half of var after my last shot of test too right before my PCT.


Keep up the intensity, keep lifting heavy with form, but limit your time in the gym to 45-60 min.
It´s all about staying Anabolic .

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## jimmyinkedup

> You do not need to beat around to bush to make a point. No need to be so touchy either.
> 
> I made myself very clear in my post above while trying to make a point for CuriousGuy, explaining my perspective on some compounds with highly anabolic in nature and why I think they provide users with more retainable muscle mass in the long run as opposed to some others compounds that are by far more androgenic than anabolic in their compositions. You have absolutely no right to give me shit for not having agreed with the points I made. Grow up! 
> 
> You are distorting the subject in this thread by turning it into a personal matter, try not to. 
> 
> Thanks.


Do we have some personal history im unaware of? 
Its not the fact that your wrong ...its the fact that your a condescending prick. You have been that way in several threads lately and made sevral comments with that tone. Im not quitye sure who you think you are - but please make an effort to stop - it makes you look and sound like an idiot - especially to those that do know wtf they are talking about.
That clear enough for you? Not distorted in any way?
Thanks.

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## jimmyinkedup

> So whats your take on the feedback I am looking for , I would love to hear it please chime in....... It means allot to me thanks


Dont be fooled into believeing the anabolic /androgenic ratio of a steroid will determine gains retention. Its nonsense - although people im sure have read this somwhere and believe it. The very mechanisms that increase the anabolic effect of a steroid will return to "normal" once the steroid use ceases. Same thing when it comes to its androgenic effects (utilizing effective pct of course).
The best thing you can do is be sure to increase cals to support additional muscle mass and adjust training as well.

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## Turkish Juicer

> *Do we have some personal history im unaware of? 
> Its not the fact that your wrong ...its the fact that your a condescending prick. You have been that way in several threads lately and made sevral comments with that tone. Im not quitye sure who you think you are - but please make an effort to stop - it makes you look and sound like an idiot - especially to those that do know wtf they are talking about.
> That clear enough for you? Not distorted in any way?
> Thanks.*


As a matter of fact, we did not have a personal history before you called me a ''condescending prick,'' but after that, you can bet on it. 

I did not know you had the ability to judge someone whom you have never met in person, but apparently you can leap to a conclusion about his style without hearing his voice or observing his mimics, now I wish were born with such outrageous qualities.

I can tell by looking at your style that you are one of those people who thinks he can represent for the rest, telling me that I sound and look like an idiot to the members of this forum, but you should know that you are the first and only person who ever approached me with such an aggravating style since the first day of my membership. Moreover, I have been receiving thank you pm's from some of the members I tried to be helpful with on the steroid and nutrition forums ''lately'', so I have absolutely no concern for your nonsense. So why don't you take a deep breath and reconsider this situation. Try not to be so subjective this time.

Here is a direct quotation from steroid.com ''its (Primobolan Depot's) primary functions is to help your body retain nitrogen at a greatly enhanced rate. The greater your nitrogen retention is, the more muscle you will build.'' And what did I say in my original post about gear use and muscle retention? I agreed upon everything about the diet yet added my perspective that ''the longer one stays on high anabolic ratio compound the possibility of retainable muscle increases in the long term.'' You are more than welcomed to think I am wrong about this, at least I will not call you a ''condescending prick'' for disagreeing with me and/or thinking that I am wrong.

If you thik I will be subjected to your anger outbursts and/or your devoted despisement towards me in this forum, you are terribly mistaken. You really need to chill out...

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## jimmyinkedup

> As a matter of fact, we did not have a personal history before you called me a ''condescending prick,'' but after that, you can bet on it. * see how that works out for yiu*
> 
> I did not know you had the ability to judge someone whom you have never met in person, but apparently you can leap to a conclusion about his style without hearing his voice or observing his mimics, now I wish were born with such outrageous qualities. * Well u make it pretty easy typing things in threads like "before the idiots chime in" and responding to a vet with "any vet should know this"* 
> 
> I can tell by looking at your style * hmm interesting- just one sentence ago that was an "outrageous quality" - yet now you express the arrogance to possess it. Go figure.* that you are one of those people who thinks he can represent for the rest, telling me that I sound and look like an idiot to the members of this forum, but you should know that you are the first and only person who ever approached me with such an aggravating style since the first day of my membership. Moreover, I have been receiving thank you pm's from some of the members I tried to be helpful with on the steroid and nutrition forums ''lately'', so I have absolutely no concern for your nonsense. So why don't you take a deep breath and reconsider this situation. Try not to be so subjective this time.
> 
> Here is a direct quotation from steroid.com ''its (Primobolan Depot's) primary functions is to help your body retain nitrogen at a greatly enhanced rate. The greater your nitrogen retention is, the more muscle you will build.'' And what did I say in my original post about gear use and muscle retention? I agreed upon everything about the diet yet added my perspective that ''the longer one stays on high anabolic ratio compound the possibility of retainable muscle increases in the long term.'' You are more than welcomed to think I am wrong about this, at least I will not call you a ''condescending prick'' for disagreeing with me and/or thinking that I am wrong. * it has nothing to do with right or wrong - its the arrogant condescending remarks like the ones I mentioned above that I take issue with*
> 
> If you thik I will be subjected to your anger outbursts and/or your devoted despisement towards me in this forum, you are terribly mistaken. You really need to chill out...


Do not presume to tell me what I need to do.
You need to check your ego and arrogance a bit so as not to be offensive and we can ALL resume learning from one another. I am not the only one that has taken notice of this btw.

Now back to the topic at hand:
While steroids that are more anabolic in nature exert their effects like increased nitrogen retention and increased protein systhesis - these elevated effects do not last post administration - thus it is inevitable your body will not be able to maintain or "retain" those gains any more so than androgen induced gains. The end result will ultimately be the same. Thats my opinion and experience. You are surely entitled so yours. Id simply appreciate it if you leave the condescention behind. 
Thank You.

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## CuriousGuy

good work out today

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## SACKMYCOOKiow

goto say great read

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## CuriousGuy

i thinks so too , lotta great information one last question besides all the shit i have went out and bought probably more then another cycle . Can I take TBomb or any other natural testosterone booster from GNC will that help in recovery and boosting test along with everything else ?

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## gixxerboy1

> i thinks so too , lotta great information one last question besides all the shit i have went out and bought probably more then another cycle . Can I take TBomb or any other natural testosterone booster from GNC will that help in recovery and boosting test along with everything else ?


i wouldnt take anything else. I've seen those test booster cause more issues and also boost estrogen.

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## CuriousGuy

Most of them have Estrogen blockers here is the info:

1. Increases Your Natural Production of Testosterone * 
Clinical doses of surmised Testosterone-boosting compounds force your pituitary into overdrive!* T-BOMB II supports your pituitary to produce luteinizing hormone and potentially triggers the release of Testosterone, giving you explosive strength and head-turning gains in rock-hard muscle mass!*

2. Cripples SHBG and Increases "Free Testosterone"* 
Elevated Testosterone is only beneficial if it is circulating in the blood as "Free Testosterone".* Sex- Hormone-Binding Globulin (SHBG) is a protein that binds to Testosterone, rendering it useless. T-Bomb II supports lowered SHBG!* T-Bomb II frees up even more Testosterone to promote greater gains in mass and strength.*

3. Stops Testosterone to Estrogen Conversion* 
Unfortunately, not all Testosterone remains as Testosterone once it's produced. The "aromatase" enzyme converts some of your Testosterone into estrogen, which is responsible for the accumulation of body fat and water retention.* Anti-Aromatase inhibitors found in T-Bomb II may reduct the conversion of Testosterone to estrogen.*

4. Blocks Estrogen Receptors* 
Stage 2 of T-BOMB It's "estrogen assault" uses estrogen-blocking compounds to clog the receptors, assuring that estrogen does not attach to the receptor and exert any of its estrogenic effects.* With T-Bomb II's two-stage assault, Testosterone, and only Testosterone, dominates your hormonal composition.*

5. Lowers the Conversion of Testosterone to DHT* 
Testosterone can also convert into a hormone known as DHT, which is responsible for negative side effects such as baldness and acne. T-Bomb II provides your body with the critical nutrients to minimize and block this conversion.* Additionally, minimizing DHT, which normally competes with Testosterone for the androgen receptor, leaves even more receptors open for Testosterone to latch onto.

Second Messenger Technology: The Testosterone Amplifier!*

For years, bodybuilders have been trying to figure out how to maximize receptor cell activity. They know that regardless of how much Testosterone they have pumping through their bodies, they aren't going to benefit if their receptors aren't responding. If their muscle cells aren't ready to accept all of this extra Testosterone, their Testosterone-maximizing efforts are wasted!


Here's how it works: When testosterone arrives and docks at the muscle cell receptor site, complex intracellular compounds called "2nd Messengers" communicate this arrival to the cell nucleus and trigger an anabolic (muscle building) reaction. The more efficient your 2nd Messengers are working, the louder the signal they send. This is referred to as signal transduction, and the amplified signal increases Testosterone's anabolic effects to stimulate muscle growth. Simply stated, if your 2nd Messengers are operating optimally, the muscle building effects of Testosterone are increased ten-fold!

T-Bomb II brings this amazing, new receptor site technology to you with its proprietary 2nd Messenger Complex. Exclusive to T-Bomb II, this complex has upped the ante on Testosterone's role in bodybuilding... Forever!

T-Bomb II's Optimone-5 Complex will make sure your hormonal landscape is primed for growth.* Let's go through our checklist:

Your pituitary is in overdrive, supporting Testosterone levels .*
You're crippling SHBG, allowing even more Free Testosterone to be available to latch onto the muscle receptors.*
You're shutting down estrogen with a two-stage assault by promoting reduced conversion of estrogen and by blocking the estrogen receptor so estrogen may not be utilized.*
Then the 2nd Messenger Complex sends an amplified signal that Testosterone has arrived and unleashes its anabolic effects.*

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## gixxerboy1

thats their marketing material. Notice everything say potentially will , or may do this.
Supplements arent regulated or proven.

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## CuriousGuy

What I have now is :


Novladex
Clomid
Formeron (Transdermal )
Tribulus 
ZMA
Vitamin C 
Whey Protein Always
NOXplode
was going to toss in T Bomb too but if you say I dont need it then I wont get it. I just want my test to get back to normal or close ASAP.

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## CuriousGuy

> thats their marketing material. Notice everything say potentially will , or may do this.
> Supplements arent regulated or proven.


Gotcha so Ill not get it , can you recomend anything at the vitamin shop or GNC thats good for natural test production ?

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## gixxerboy1

you should be fine with what you already have. More isnt always better. And what you have now is proven to work

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## CuriousGuy

> you should be fine with what you already have. More isnt always better. And what you have now is proven to work


Thanks Bruddah I appreciate it, good looking out!

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## CuriousGuy

> you should be fine with what you already have. More isnt always better. And what you have now is proven to work


After PCT anything in-between cycles that's good to take Animal Stack or anything else ? My buddy takes this stuff Tri-Methyl and he's ripped, just wondering I dont want to waste any money I dont need to but want to stay strong .

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## CuriousGuy

> you should be fine with what you already have. More isnt always better. And what you have now is proven to work


After PCT anything in-between cycles that's good to take Animal Stack or anything else ? My buddy takes this stuff Tri-Methyl and he's ripped, just wondering I dont want to waste any money I dont need to but want to stay strong .

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## CuriousGuy

double post accident

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## CuriousGuy

I just pumped my last injection of test , very nervous and stressed im not going to be on it anymore. I feel so great Im afraid Im going to get depressed , lazy , lose my shape , sex drive and I hope its all in my mind and I power through my PCT and keep the intensity of my workouts and everything will be ok but I am nervous as hell. Make me feel better guys show me the light at the end of the tunnel !!!

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## minitourwvu

> I just pumped my last injection of test , very nervous and stressed im not going to be on it anymore. I feel so great Im afraid Im going to get depressed , lazy , lose my shape , sex drive and I hope its all in my mind and I power through my PCT and keep the intensity of my workouts and everything will be ok but I am nervous as hell. Make me feel better guys show me the light at the end of the tunnel !!!


Im in the same boat man just did my last pin, pct some people make it sound scary but you will be ok, focus on motivation and goals and eat really good. I got clen to run for my pct as ive read it helps some people keep some of their lbm while coming off aas im not sure how true this is but i also wanted to run it to lose 1 or 2% of bf so either way its a win win, i also have tribulis, mens now virility, maca, biotin, folic acid, vitaminb6 to help with pct again not sure how effective it will be so just stay possitive, what is your pct look like mine is 100/50/50/50 clom and 40/40/20/20 nolva

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## CuriousGuy

> Im in the same boat man just did my last pin, pct some people make it sound scary but you will be ok, focus on motivation and goals and eat really good. I got clen to run for my pct as ive read it helps some people keep some of their lbm while coming off aas im not sure how true this is but i also wanted to run it to lose 1 or 2% of bf so either way its a win win, i also have tribulis, mens now virility, maca, biotin, folic acid, vitaminb6 to help with pct again not sure how effective it will be so just stay possitive, what is your pct look like mine is 100/50/50/50 clom and 40/40/20/20 nolva


My PCT is the same as yours question is that 7 days a week for 30 days because you put 40/40/20/20 that's 4 days clarity on that would be great. They make PCT sound horrible lol, I would stay on my gear but or at least the Test but I want to have another baby so I need to come off.

Was thinking about Clen too but wasn't sure if it was necessary that's why I have been asking around its pretty easy to get so I can start it anytime.

I am pretty positive I mean i look and feel amazing and dont plan on stopping what I am doing its all in my mind any depression or anxiety I may have ill just pop a xanex and be ok  :Smilie:

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## minitourwvu

> My PCT is the same as yours question is that 7 days a week for 30 days because you put 40/40/20/20 that's 4 days clarity on that would be great. They make PCT sound horrible lol, I would stay on my gear but or at least the Test but I want to have another baby so I need to come off.
> 
> Was thinking about Clen too but wasn't sure if it was necessary that's why I have been asking around its pretty easy to get so I can start it anytime.
> 
> I am pretty positive I mean i look and feel amazing and dont plan on stopping what I am doing its all in my mind any depression or anxiety I may have ill just pop a xanex and be ok


7 days a week 4 weeks

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## CuriousGuy

Thanks

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