# FITNESS and NUTRITION FORUM > WORKOUT AND TRAINING >  Triceps on shoulder day?

## mastablasta7

Is it ok to do triceps on shoulder day instead of chest day? If i do triceps on chest day i seem to get a crappy workout and cant do nearly as much.

Heres my split:

Monday -Chest
Tuesday - Back/Biceps
Wednesday - Shoulder/triceps
Thursday - Legs
Friday - Off
Saturday -Restart

Is this ok to do? I'd also like to state that I only do 4 days on 1 day off while on cycle. Off cycle I just lift 4 days a week. Also My triceps usually feel gtg by the time shoulder day comes.

Another question should i just have a day to bis/tris? My goal is to ultimately have bigger arms (they are already pretty big) But idk if working them after main muscle such as back and chest will be detrimental to my gains. Any input is
welcome.

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## raspberry

I do chest/shoulders/triceps on the same workout...I feel fine.

Monday: Legs/Abs
Tuesday: Cardio
Wednesday: Chest/Shoulders/Triceps
Thursday: Cardio
Friday: Back/Biceps/Forearms

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## MBMETC

back and bi's together are fine both pulling motion
tris and shoulders both pushing movements
looks good, does it work for you?

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## mastablasta7

> back and bi's together are fine both pulling motion
> tris and shoulders both pushing movements
> looks good, does it work for you?


Yea my arms havent got any smaller so it's obviously working. But my biceps seemed to blow up fast when i had a day to just Bis/tris i got some narly stretch marks on my biceps. I mainly concentrated on Biceps so my triceps didnt grow as much. I'm going to experiment with this current routine for a while and see how it goes. It's going to be hard to tell since i just ended my cycle.

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## MACHINE5150

i do tris on shoulder days heavy and do tri's light on chest day.. so i do tricep 2x a week.. no problems here

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## mastablasta7

> i do tris on shoulder days heavy and do tri's light on chest day.. so i do tricep 2x a week.. no problems here


Nice glad im not the only one. How often to you train biceps?

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## tjax03

> Is it ok to do triceps on shoulder day instead of chest day? If i do triceps on chest day i seem to get a crappy workout and cant do nearly as much.
> 
> Heres my split:
> 
> Monday -Chest
> Tuesday - Back/Biceps
> Wednesday - Shoulder/triceps
> Thursday - Legs
> Friday - Off
> ...


4 on 1 off is a pretty heavy schedule even on cycle, but if its working for you then no need to change it. If you want bigger arms you can always experiment giving arms their own day versus training after chest/back. If I were you I'd keep a log while trying each method and take measurements to make it as accurate as possible. You should also be fine doing triceps on shoulder day. Your current routine gives you 2 days of rest for your tris before you have to use them again on your next chest workout, so it should be ok.

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## mastablasta7

> 4 on 1 off is a pretty heavy schedule even on cycle, but if its working for you then no need to change it. If you want bigger arms you can always experiment giving arms their own day versus training after chest/back. If I were you I'd keep a log while trying each method and take measurements to make it as accurate as possible. You should also be fine doing triceps on shoulder day. Your current routine gives you 2 days of rest for your tris before you have to use them again on your next chest workout, so it should be ok.


Yea ill try this for a while and see how it works. You really think 4 days on 1 day off is to much? Sometimes ill take off an extra day if im not feeling it but i get my lifts done in about an hour so i am in the gym pretty much 6 hours a week 7 max.

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## tjax03

> Yea ill try this for a while and see how it works. You really think 4 days on 1 day off is to much? Sometimes ill take off an extra day if im not feeling it but i get my lifts done in about an hour so i am in the gym pretty much 6 hours a week 7 max.


It's all depends on the individual. It would be too much for me, but if you are making consistent progress and don't feel drained etc, then keep it up. It's good that you go by how you feel. Don't feel bad about taking an extra day off here and there if you aren't feeling up to it. If you eventually run into a plateau it might be time to rethink your routine and incorporate more rest. Remember, we grow when we rest, not when we are in the gym. For now, just make sure that your nutrition is on point. The easiest way to become over-trained is by not eating enough.

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## tbody66

It seems like you aren't training enough, on or off cycle, however, like everyone's responses, it is individually dependant, I have no idea what your stats are, age/ht/wt, nor do I know what you mean by on or off cycle. From what I gathered from your statement, you don't change your routine, which is a terrible idea for anyone. So, please provide more detailed information, pics would be substantially more informative. As a trainer I would rather see for myself what it appears you need work on than take your word for it. You say you have nice development on biceps, but I know people who think they have certain areas developed well and it isn't the case. If you are 22 years old and you are only hitting bi's and tri's once a week, that is under-training, if you are under-nurished or old and no muscle building chemical production is going on, that might be okay. There are very rare circumstances where that small of a muscle group doesn't need to be trained more frequently. Everyone has naturally developed, or easier to develop, bodyparts and those that lag behind.

If you provide the above information, as well as lifting experience and diet, we'll help you make gains you have never experienced before.

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## Stephen73ta

I don't even have a workout schedule.. I used to keep track and do certain things on this day or that day, but my schedule just wouldn't allow it. I'm still in the gym 5 or 6 days a week I just hit what needs to be hit and I'm happy with my results. I will say that I can't stand doing chest and shoulders on the same day. I don't even like doing shoulders the day after or before chest. I get too sore and need to let my shoulders rest either way in order to have a good workout. Same thing with triceps. I usually do them on back day or legs.. It's just what works for me.

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## mastablasta7

> It seems like you aren't training enough, on or off cycle, however, like everyone's responses, it is individually dependant, I have no idea what your stats are, age/ht/wt, nor do I know what you mean by on or off cycle. From what I gathered from your statement, you don't change your routine, which is a terrible idea for anyone. So, please provide more detailed information, pics would be substantially more informative. As a trainer I would rather see for myself what it appears you need work on than take your word for it. You say you have nice development on biceps, but I know people who think they have certain areas developed well and it isn't the case. If you are 22 years old and you are only hitting bi's and tri's once a week, that is under-training, if you are under-nurished or old and no muscle building chemical production is going on, that might be okay. There are very rare circumstances where that small of a muscle group doesn't need to be trained more frequently. Everyone has naturally developed, or easier to develop, bodyparts and those that lag behind.
> 
> If you provide the above information, as well as lifting experience and diet, we'll help you make gains you have never experienced before.


Im not training enough? What exactly do you mean by this? I work each muscle once a week and for an hour and this seems to be working pretty well.

*Stats:*
Height: 6'2
Weight: 215
Age: 26
BF: Pretty low since i can see my abs
Training: 7 years

For major muscles (chest/back/legs) I do around 12 working sets. I workout extremely hard and by the time i get done with my workout im pretty exausted.
These people who go in the gym and do 20+sets and are in the gym for up to 2 hours are overtraining in my opinion (except for people with crazy genetics). 

Im off cycle and lift 4 days a week and seems it to be working well since ive been maintaining weight/strength. My main concern is that biceps and triceps are a smaller muscle and there for i think they should be worked twice a week(perhaps?).

Please explaing what you mean by "not training enough". Ive had a few body builders tell me they get their entire chest workout done in 45minutes and they do each muscle once a week. 

Your input is appreciated.

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## tbody66

> I don't even have a workout schedule.. I used to keep track and do certain things on this day or that day, but my schedule just wouldn't allow it. I'm still in the gym 5 or 6 days a week I just hit what needs to be hit and I'm happy with my results. I will say that I can't stand doing chest and shoulders on the same day. I don't even like doing shoulders the day after or before chest. I get too sore and need to let my shoulders rest either way in order to have a good workout. Same thing with triceps. I usually do them on back day or legs.. It's just what works for me.


Instinctive training is an option and does work to a greater degree for some, an incredibly small percentage and absolutely not recommended. I will always believe that it will never work as well as a pre-determined plan of attack with regular modifications. Based upon you saying that your schedule just absolutely doesn't allow this, I'm presuming that you would do it differently if it did.




> Im not training enough? What exactly do you mean by this? I work each muscle once a week and for an hour and this seems to be working pretty well.
> 
> *Stats:*
> Height: 6'2
> Weight: 215
> Age: 26
> BF: Pretty low since i can see my abs
> Training: 7 years
> 
> ...


Most of us here on this board have no right or reason to do what "body-builders" do, it's totally different for them. Your stats suggest a few things, you probably have a nice build, better than most even, the problem isn't how we compare to other people, but how close to maximizing our potential are we and what do we need to do to challange our bodies the most. You may be getting good gains from your program, but good is the greatest enemy of great. The next few ideas are basic, but should be applicable to you due to your age and lifting experience, muscles recover in 48 - 96 hours, depending on the size of the muscle group and the intensity of the training, if your muscles are recovered and you do not train them you are missing out on growth opportunities, the biceps and triceps are the smallest muscle groups and should be worked twice a week (once you are a competitive bodybuilder and your arms are the exact right size and proportion to the rest of your physique this might need to drop, until then...)

I absolutely never questioned your workout ethic, but have trained several people with years of lifting experience and showed them how to workout smart and produced even better results. I will always be a fan of changing your program up every two months, sometimes the changes may seem like a 180 degree change and sometimes 1 degree. Anyone who works out with a non-biased, knowledgable trainer will always produce better results than without (almost every top bodybuilder has a trainer), for every story you hear about someone that does something and works for them you have an exact opposite story that works for someone else, what matters is what works for you and if you have only tried it one way you don't know if another way is better. Sometimes leaving something you know and later coming back to it will produce even better results than staying with it.

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## mastablasta7

> Most of us here on this board have no right or reason to do what "body-builders" do, it's totally different for them. Your stats suggest a few things, you probably have a nice build, better than most even, the problem isn't how we compare to other people, but how close to maximizing our potential are we and what do we need to do to challange our bodies the most. You may be getting good gains from your program, but good is the greatest enemy of great. The next few ideas are basic, but should be applicable to you due to your age and lifting experience, muscles recover in 48 - 96 hours, depending on the size of the muscle group and the intensity of the training, if your muscles are recovered and you do not train them you are missing out on growth opportunities, the biceps and triceps are the smallest muscle groups and should be worked twice a week (once you are a competitive bodybuilder and your arms are the exact right size and proportion to the rest of your physique this might need to drop, until then...)
> 
> I absolutely never questioned your workout ethic, but have trained several people with years of lifting experience and showed them how to workout smart and produced even better results. I will always be a fan of changing your program up every two months, sometimes the changes may seem like a 180 degree change and sometimes 1 degree. Anyone who works out with a non-biased, knowledgable trainer will always produce better results than without (almost every top bodybuilder has a trainer), for every story you hear about someone that does something and works for them you have an exact opposite story that works for someone else, what matters is what works for you and if you have only tried it one way you don't know if another way is better. Sometimes leaving something you know and later coming back to it will produce even better results than staying with it.


I understand what you are saying and you are very knowledgable. From what your saying it sounds like you think i should work each muscle twice a week? 

Ill admit when i was benching 2-3 times a week i was gaining a little more then i am now working each muscle only once a week. The biggest problem is that half of my lifts were progressing significantly and some of my lifts were not. If I do each muscle twice a week then the muscles that i work after my main muscles will be lacking (Ex: shoulders after chest - i'll be exausted from chest and get a poor shoulder workout). Ill admit after working each muscle they feel fine and ready to train again about 3-4 days later. Unfortanantly If i want to stay proportional and work all my muscles equally I have to do a 4-5 days split with 7days rest for each muscle. Also if your only doing 6 sets for a muscle then 48-72hours rest is just enough but if you are working the shit out of your muscle for an hour I believe it needs a longer time to recovery.

I wish i could work each muscle twice a week but thats a pretty heavy load and i wouldnt be able to handle that as tjax said. 

Ill admit some people can excell with only 72hours rest and lift each muscle twice a week. A buddy of mine does this and is a total hoss and the only thing he takes is protien. Hes benching 355 and weighs only 185. He lifts like 2 hours everyday sometimes more which is usually extreme OT for most.

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## terraj

> I will always be a fan of changing your program up every two months, sometimes the changes may seem like a 180 degree change and sometimes 1 degree. .


I don't like this idea, it is something that has caught via the parrot chain unfortunately.

If you are still gaining you don't change it...correct? Using progressive overload, you would be shooting yourself in the foot by changing. 
Also if you change often you don't give your body time to adapt to new movements.

Keep with the routine for as long as it was working! You are much beter off sticking with something that is working, and then taking a week off at around 10-12 weeks. 

Also from what I have seen and read, the majority of top BBs only use personal trainers for prep.

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## tjax03

> I don't like this idea, it is something that has caught via the parrot chain unfortunately.
> 
> *If you are still gaining you don't change it...correct? Using progressive overload, you would be shooting yourself in the foot by changing.* 
> Also if you change often you don't give your body time to adapt to new movements.
> 
> Keep with the routine for as long as it was working! You are much beter off sticking with something that is working, and then taking a week off at around 10-12 weeks. 
> 
> Also from what I have seen and read, the majority of top BBs only use personal trainers for prep.


X2 You will develop more by sticking to a routine and working to increase the amount of weight you can lift. Progressive overload is by far the most important stimulator of muscle growth. The only people who have any business performing "instinctive" type training programs are pros who have a complete understanding of their body and have learned exactly what works for them and what doesn't. Most people just end up wasting their time with this type of training.

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## mastablasta7

> X2 You will develop more by sticking to a routine and working to increase the amount of weight you can lift. Progressive overload is by far the most important stimulator of muscle growth. The only people who have any business performing "instinctive" type training programs are pros who have a complete understanding of their body and have learned exactly what works for them and what doesn't. Most people just end up wasting their time with this type of training.


Jay Cutler even says he usually sticks to the same workout. If you workout with intensity and have a good diet you will grow.

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## tbody66

> I don't like this idea, it is something that has caught via the parrot chain unfortunately.
> 
> If you are still gaining you don't change it...correct? Using progressive overload, you would be shooting yourself in the foot by changing. 
> Also if you change often you don't give your body time to adapt to new movements.
> 
> Keep with the routine for as long as it was working! You are much beter off sticking with something that is working, and then taking a week off at around 10-12 weeks. 
> 
> Also from what I have seen and read, the majority of top BBs only use personal trainers for prep.


I appreciate differing opinions, I'm having a hard time not taking it personal when you refer to my advice as something from the "parrot chain", certainly takes away from my years of personal experience. I would find it hard to believe that every bodypart is continuing to progress at the same degree as all other bodyparts without tweaking a routine periodically, thus my statement that the change may be only 1 degree.




> X2 You will develop more by sticking to a routine and working to increase the amount of weight you can lift. Progressive overload is by far the most important stimulator of muscle growth. The only people who have any business performing "instinctive" type training programs are pros who have a complete understanding of their body and have learned exactly what works for them and what doesn't. Most people just end up wasting their time with this type of training.


I am absolutely not a fan of "instinctive" training. I also appreciate your opinion about sticking with a routine and progressive overload, but I disagree with your matter of fact statement that you will "develop more" by doing so, very subjective. I will absolutely admit that this may be true for some, but not most. As a trainer we learn that most people become bored with the same routine and need change to remain motivated, change for change sake is not what I'm supporting here, but not everyone has the fortitude to go to the gym, week in and week out, month in and month out, year in and year out and do the same routine. I know trainers who teach this and their clients get results, I'm just from a different school of thought. With bodybuilding I know this, there is definitely more than one way to arrive at the same place.




> Jay Cutler even says he usually sticks to the same workout. If you workout with intensity and have a good diet you will grow.


Again, most of us aren't in that position, if I looked like him and said I only do plyometrics that wouldn't make it something most people could get away with. I'm a big fan of Intensity and absolutely agree with your statement about that, but if you performed the best exercises for your body under the best stress load with that intensity and a good diet you would grow bigger quicker.

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## terraj

> I appreciate differing opinions, I'm having a hard time not taking it personal when you refer to my advice as something from the "parrot chain", certainly takes away from my years of personal experience. I would find it hard to believe that every bodypart is continuing to progress at the same degree as all other bodyparts without tweaking a routine periodically, thus my statement that the change may be only 1 degree.
> 
> 
> 
> I am absolutely not a fan of "instinctive" training. I also appreciate your opinion about sticking with a routine and progressive overload, but I disagree with your matter of fact statement that you will "develop more" by doing so, very subjective. I will absolutely admit that this may be true for some, but not most. As a trainer we learn that most people become bored with the same routine and need change to remain motivated, change for change sake is not what I'm supporting here, but not everyone has the fortitude to go to the gym, week in and week out, month in and month out, year in and year out and do the same routine. I know trainers who teach this and their clients get results, I'm just from a different school of thought. With bodybuilding I know this, there is definitely more than one way to arrive at the same place.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, most of us aren't in that position, if I looked like him and said I only do plyometrics that wouldn't make it something most people could get away with. I'm a big fan of Intensity and absolutely agree with your statement about that, but if you performed the best exercises for your body under the best stress load with that intensity and a good diet you would grow bigger quicker.


No offence man, you know your shit, I can see that.

A question for you.....do you train BBs or avg trainees?

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## tbody66

> No offence man, you know your shit, I can see that.
> 
> A question for you.....do you train BBs or avg trainees?


I've trained them all. No pro's or anything, I'm in Kansas you know, but some guys who have competed at small town stuff. Some special forces guys when I was in Iraq, that was a great pleasure and an honor. A majority of people I train are not people who want to look like a BB, mostly just look better and be more healthy. I co-owned a fight club for awhile and trained mma guys, owned a gym, all types of people there. I obviously have personal preferences, but try to make the clients goal the most important, take my goals out of the equation altogether. My job is to help them acheive *their* goals in the quickest and safest way possible. All things being equal, with the client and his dedication level, I believe in what I know and my ability to train anyone at any level and compete against the best. I've competed in powerlifting tournaments and done well. Judged powerlifting meets. Trained powerlifters and done well, and have been asked to coach a powerlifting team this year at our high-school.

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## mastablasta7

Hey guys so i decided to give arms their own day. Heres what i got so far.

Dips 2xfailure
Close grip bench 2x10
Skullcrushers 2x10 
Push downs 2x10

Barbell Curls 3x8
Dumbbell Curls 3x10
Preacher Curls 2x10

This is similair to what i had before when i did arms on their own day except now im concentrating on triceps. What do you guys think? Is Close grip Bench really needed or should i drop it and add more skull crushers?

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## tbody66

What day are you putting this into the rotation? Depending on where it falls I might recommend a slight change up.

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## mastablasta7

> What day are you putting this into the rotation? Depending on where it falls I might recommend a slight change up.


Monday - Legs
Tuesday - Chest
Wednesday - Off
Thursday - Back
Friday - Shoulders
Saturday - Arms
Sunday - Off

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## tbody66

> Monday - Legs
> Tuesday - Chest
> Wednesday - Off
> Thursday - Back
> Friday - Shoulders
> Saturday - Arms
> Sunday - Off


Depending on your shoulder routine it might be difficult to hit arms the next day, could you do

Monday - Chest
Tuesday - Back
Wednesday - Off
Thursday - Shoulders
Friday - Legs
Saturday - Arms
Sunday - Off

your workout is fine, I would have recommended giving up the narrow grip bench, but your arm routine is far enough removed from chest to make it a non-factor. I would also have recommended your dips be bench dips for the same reason, but again, not a factor, you could exchange those two exercises every other week to hit things a little differently. My only other suggestion is superset everything after dips on arm day.

Again, I'd like to see some pics to help us gauge progress and better critique and advise you.

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## mastablasta7

> Depending on your shoulder routine it might be difficult to hit arms the next day, could you do
> 
> Monday - Chest
> Tuesday - Back
> Wednesday - Off
> Thursday - Shoulders
> Friday - Legs
> Saturday - Arms
> Sunday - Off
> ...


Yea ill post up some pictures soon. Honestly i never feel any fatigue in my triceps during shoulders. The only thing i do that involves my triceps is 3 sets of dumbbell press. I like the idea of super setting after dips. I just never really concentrated on triceps before so i dont really know what exercises will hit them the best.

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## A010011000111

i love putting shoulder and triceps together, i think they work well and i have pretty decent deltoid definition, and my tri's are damn strong. i always throw chest in on that day but its not necessary

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## cerealkiller326

I work Tri and shoulder as well, but this is followed after my Bicep/Tri workout 2 days prior.

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