# STEROIDS FORUM > HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY- Low T, Anti-Aging >  androgel vs axiron

## busterbrown

I have been on Androgel 5mg for a month and test only came up a little. I just left Endo said he had something new called Axiron. Has anyone had any expierence with it? He prescribed 60mg, am i receiving now over ten fold increase. Can compare the Mg since they are two different products? would they have different absorption rates?

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## zaggahamma

bump...sorry...new gel?????????

did your doctor NOT answer any of these questions?

ppl must not ask questions like i do when i'm at a doctors office...if the fcker coughs i'm asking him wtf was that for...

lol


bump bump

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## Redrivermma

Interested in any info on this thread. I have a script for Androgel , running sus then androgel between cycles for my normal TRT.

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## sirupate

Just looked it up. Axiron (Lilly) is an alcohol based gel that is applied to the armpits. I couldn't find absorption information on Axiron, but if it is similar to Androgel you would get 10% absorbed. A 60mg. dose per day would yield 6mgs. absorbed as compared to 5mgs. of the Androgel. Maybe absorption is greater in the armpit area (axilla), thus Axiron would provide a better "kick" than would Androgel. I just don't know based upon what little I read. Not sure I would like to be applying to my armpits...but whatever works best for you. Keep us posted on your progress.

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## zaggahamma

> Just looked it up. Axiron (Lilly) is an alcohol based gel that is applied to the armpits. I couldn't find absorption information on Axiron, but if it is similar to Androgel you would get 10% absorbed. A 60mg. dose per day would yield 6mgs. absorbed as compared to 5mgs. of the Androgel. Maybe absorption is greater in the armpit area (axilla), thus Axiron would provide a better "kick" than would Androgel. I just don't know based upon what little I read. Not sure I would like to be applying to my armpits...but whatever works best for you. Keep us posted on your progress.


so every morn it would be axiron then arrid.....unless they come out with a combo

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## sirupate

> so every morn it would be axiron then arrid.....unless they come out with a combo


I think Lilly says do the Arrid first, then the Axiron, which seems weird to me.

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## nevergiveup

I just was perscribed this had low test levels at 30 yrs old. first test was 230L and the second was 203L. Apparently Axiron is trying to get their product out there so you can get it cheap for now plus the free product from the doctor. 

The reason you have to do the deodernt first is to preven it from transferring to your deodernt and possibly onto your spouse or child. Will keep posts on how I feel and if there are anysides. 

It would be nice to know how much test I am actully getting daily or weekly, I am doing 60mg a day.

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## zaggahamma

> I just was perscribed this had low test levels at 30 yrs old. first test was 230L and the second was 203L. Apparently Axiron is trying to get their product out there so you can get it cheap for now plus the free product from the doctor. 
> 
> The reason you have to do the deodernt first is to preven it from transferring to your deodernt and possibly onto your spouse or child. Will keep posts on how I feel and if there are anysides. 
> 
> It would be nice to know how much test I am actully getting daily or weekly, I am doing 60mg a day.


if its like androgel or testim then at 60mg a day you would be getting 6mg of testosterone (approximately) a day for 42mg a week....that would be similar to a 50 mg shot of test cyp or enth (because after the cyp or the enth(ester) you would yield the same).....prettly low doses we're talking but can seem to help some... a lot of ppl report though that this doesnt last...it stops absorbing as well, etc....for me, i swithched to shots shortly after...it WAS working ok but i wanted shots from the get go

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## nevergiveup

> if its like androgel or testim then at 60mg a day you would be getting 6mg of testosterone(approximately) a day for 42mg a week....that would be similar to a 50 mg shot of test cyp or enth (because after the cyp or the enth(ester) you would yield the same).....prettly low doses we're talking but can seem to help some... a lot of ppl report though that this doesnt last...it stops absorbing as well, etc....for me, i swithched to shots shortly after...it WAS working ok but i wanted shots from the get go


I wanted shots to start also but it seems Docs don't like that route for some reason. He wants me to try this for a while and then possibly go the implant route. The weekly doeses seem low compared to the 200mg shots every two weeks, which seems to be what most people are getting. Maybe he just wants to see how my body reacts first. I will be happy with some changes in mood and athletic drive however these dose levels may not change much.

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## Essiar

I have used Testim, A "homemade" T cream from a local pharmacy and Axiron. I was at about 230 before any T, then actually dropped down to 198 when using the "homemade" T as well as when I was using the Axiron 60mg/day. Then I upped the dosage of Axiron to 4 pumps, 120mg/day and BINGO! In 3 months I went from 198 to 380. Axiron is also only $25 to fill the prescription even if you have no insurance (or free depending on insurance) . Ask your doc for the coupons. What's even cooler is that price is for one or 2 bottles, whatever your 30 day prescription calls for. My insurance is $5000 deductible and I just hit that so I dug up an old prescription my doc wrote for Androgel 1.62 and filled it today for 2 bottles. I'll use that when my deal for the Axiron is over in 2 months. I just wonder about the difference in effectiveness since the max dose of Axiron (which I am on) is 4 pumps = 120mg. The max dose of Androgel is 4 pumps = 82mg. That's a huge difference unless the Androgel has better absorption. So, has anyone used both Androgel and Axiron 1.62 and found one to be better than the other?

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## HRTstudent

> I have used Testim, A "homemade" T cream from a local pharmacy and Axiron. I was at about 230 before any T, then actually dropped down to 198 when using the "homemade" T as well as when I was using the Axiron 60mg/day. Then I upped the dosage of Axiron to 4 pumps, 120mg/day and BINGO! In 3 months I went from 198 to 380. Axiron is also only $25 to fill the prescription even if you have no insurance (or free depending on insurance) . Ask your doc for the coupons. What's even cooler is that price is for one or 2 bottles, whatever your 30 day prescription calls for. My insurance is $5000 deductible and I just hit that so I dug up an old prescription my doc wrote for Androgel 1.62 and filled it today for 2 bottles. I'll use that when my deal for the Axiron is over in 2 months. I just wonder about the difference in effectiveness since the max dose of Axiron (which I am on) is 4 pumps = 120mg. The max dose of Androgel is 4 pumps = 82mg. That's a huge difference unless the Androgel has better absorption. So, has anyone used both Androgel and Axiron 1.62 and found one to be better than the other?


I don't know how the 2 compare. But when it comes to transdermals you simply cannot compare different products mg to mg.

The reason for this is because the delivery systems vary so much. Beyond that, individuals skin absorption varies widely. Some products may absorb better for others, whereas for you, it could be the opposite.

I would say, if you're doing the transdermal route then make sure, first of all, that your SHBG is not very low. I *believe* low SHBG makes for a bad combo with transdermals. That's just my opinion, talk it over with your doc of course. But if you're ok there, then just get bloodwork at least once a month and make adjustments. If the T isn't getting up then switch brands. I did this change twice before I decided I was going to go on injects.

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## max1950

> I have used Testim, A "homemade" T cream from a local pharmacy and Axiron. I was at about 230 before any T, then actually dropped down to 198 when using the "homemade" T as well as when I was using the Axiron 60mg/day. Then I upped the dosage of Axiron to 4 pumps, 120mg/day and BINGO! In 3 months I went from 198 to 380. Axiron is also only $25 to fill the prescription even if you have no insurance (or free depending on insurance) . Ask your doc for the coupons. What's even cooler is that price is for one or 2 bottles, whatever your 30 day prescription calls for. My insurance is $5000 deductible and I just hit that so I dug up an old prescription my doc wrote for Androgel 1.62 and filled it today for 2 bottles. I'll use that when my deal for the Axiron is over in 2 months. I just wonder about the difference in effectiveness since the max dose of Axiron (which I am on) is 4 pumps = 120mg. The max dose of Androgel is 4 pumps = 82mg. That's a huge difference unless the Androgel has better absorption. So, has anyone used both Androgel and Axiron 1.62 and found one to be better than the other?


Please tell me which pharmacies have $25 Axiron? CVS charges over $400.

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## sirupate

> Please tell me which pharmacies have $25 Axiron? CVS charges over $400.


He must mean his pharmacy co-pay. The gels are very expensive. Only the injections are "reasonable", unless you have pretty good insurance coverage. But regardless, someone is paying the full cost.

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## EverettCD

> Please tell me which pharmacies have $25 Axiron? CVS charges over $400.


You need to instruct your Dr to give you a Axiron copay card. You may be able to obtain a card from the Axiron website. 

The Fortesta I use is the same way, I pay $25 per month for the first year.

Sent from my iPhone that was manufactured in a sweat shop in China

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## zerodarkthirty

> You need to instruct your Dr to give you a Axiron copay card. You may be able to obtain a card from the Axiron website. 
> 
> The Fortesta I use is the same way, I pay $25 per month for the first year.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone that was manufactured in a sweat shop in China


I had both the Axiron Co-Pay card AND the Androgel Card. BOTH of these with my insurance (Anthem) were going to be over $300 per month. The co-pay cards simply do not work with the wrong insurer, regardless of the pharmacy. Even so, the best you can hope for is to use the small co-pay cards for one year, then you're going to have to jump ship to another delivery method. Obviously compounded cream and injections are very cheap compared to the big pharma gels, as I'm sure you've heard. That is where I went when the gels stopped working. ;(

The co-pay cards are not available online. You can, however, get a free one month's coupon online for Axiron. The co-pay cards are only available at a doctor's office, dropped off by reps. Make sure any cards you pick up are not expired (I did that, bah). You'll have to call and activate them.

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## dreadnok89

I went back to androgel . Axeiron kept dropping my T

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## 2Sox

A note about antiperspirants: They are just that. They prevent the glands in the underarms from secreting sweat. Essentialy the pores in your armpit are shut tight. Make an experiment: Work out strenuously having used an antiperspirant and then work out strenuously at another time with just a regular deodorant. On antiperspirants, you'll notice you sweat from places you didn't even know you could sweat from! In other words, you plug up one place the sweat needs to come out and _will_ come out from other places. 

The upshot is this: If you are using an underarm T delivery system like Axiron, if the pores are closed to sweat getting out, it will also be closed to T getting IN! I'd suggest you find a good deoderant - WITHOUT - antiperspirant, if you are using Axiron.

Regarding discount gel coupons: Androgel has what they call the "Restoration" program. You can apply online and get a card mailed to you. In the interim, you can get a number to use at your pharmacy until the card arrives. Doctors have the same card to give to their patients. Each has a number and expiration date and I'd imagine when one expires, you can get another one to use. I just pay $39 a month. Testim, has a similar program you can get online and the cost is the same. I would imagine the other gels have programs like this and of course, your copay depends on your coverage.

Edit: I've used Androgel - 2 pumps a day. It brought my total T up to over 1100. Four weeks ago, I began on test cyp, 100mg weekly and Hcg 250iu two times weekly. (I wanted to make a scientific comparison.) My levels mid week were the same. I'm going back to Androgel and Hcg. Cheaper for me and I like the steady state release better. Besides, my PA calls me an "E converter" and shots make me aromatize too much and I crash like clockwork every third day if I don't take Arimidex . I never needed an ai on Androgel and never had this kind of reaction.

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## CBT

Have had Axiron recommended by my Doctor. I had a severe reaction to the injections and says this is better. Wanted to know if anybody has had any severe reactions to Axiron. Very low test levels and basically almost always get mistaken for a young woman and look at least 10 yrs younger than I am. Any advice/symptom thing would be appreciated.

My 1st time posting.

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## zerodarkthirty

None at all, but it is pretty messy to apply until you get the hang of it. Slow and steady application wins the race. I agree with the comments above, if you're wearing an anti-perspirant, you will be effectively preventing significant absorption.

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## Ludicrous

Ok, I have been using Axiron for 9 months and see very little rise in levels.

Lilly (Androgel ) tells me normal levels for males are 300 to 1050. The Axiron and Androgel(Abbvie) medical people state both products will restore below normal levels to normal levels. I find this advertising to very noncommittal. Androgel tells me that after 120 days of study on men with below normal testosterone the mean level tested was 600 units. Axiron in the same study says the mean was 480 units. Teenage boys tested have levels of over 900 units, so what is normal? Both sites state, if we use their product we will have more energy, sleep better, lose weight, have better sex and so on. How can we believe this if we can only at the very best raise are level with in 50percent of what it was when we were young men. A normal level for a teenage boy is 900 then why are we happy to have our levels restored to 380 as many men report? 
Androgel must have a better absorbtion rate than Axiron because 4 applications of Androgel is worth 81m and Axiron 4 applications is 120m. I have all the symptoms of below normal (300) testosterone but my level is 400. I convinced my doctor to let me try Axiron to see if my minimum normal may be higher than most men and started out with two applications per day then three and now four. During the whole cycle I never saw a rise of more than 30 and then the levels dropped. I will be trying Androgel even though with four applications I will get getting 41miligrams less than Axiron because Abbvie reports higher levels in men tested. It is clear that all studies were done on men with a 0 level to below 300 and the higher percentage of these men were restored to 300. Are we happy to pay lots of money for products that will only boost our levels to normal 300? 

The lower the lever (below 300) there is more benefit from the products and the closer the lever is to 300 the benefit does not seem to outweigh the cost.

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## roxer

I just came off of one year on Axiron after being on Testim. I'll be blunt and up front - dump it and go for shots. My protocol was shower, dry off, underarm antiperspirant, hair, brush teeth, wipe off excess antiperspirant and then Axiron. The stuff is messy too. Putting it on doesn't guarantee the same dose every swipe because the solution is so thin. But to be fair, it is a good product for someone who is inactive and it does better than Testim as far as being sticky until it starts meeting sweat or moisture (like a very humid day).

I started at two swipes, then later moved to three, then ended up with six by the end of the day near the end of the year. It tails off sharply as you pass afternoon time. That's why I ended up with two swipes after 6PM. The fact is a lot is left to your ability to absorb it and if you are a sweater - which I was. So for four hours you have to be in an air conditioned room or car so it will absorb.

If you travel, Lilly does not suggest you have it X-rayed. So, you carry it with you, give it to the TSA flunky at the security check point, they make you (and your bags) go through the x-ray device, do a bomb substance check of the container (and you) and do a pat down even if you passed clean - every time you go through security.

Do shots... Lets face it, docs make money selling this stuff and Lilly makes a killing of selling test in an absorbable solution. That's a pharmacy price of $825 for a 30 day supply of two bottles of Axiron vs. $90 for a two and a half month supply 5ml vial of test-e (200mg/ml at 100mg per week). Do the math. Which one would you rather do if you loose insurance?  :Smilie: 

Just my 2¢

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## The Deadlifting Dog

Ludicrous,

4 pumps of Axiron a day gets me in the low 800s 2 to 3 hours after applying. My baseline test level is around 260.

Were you getting your blood drawn before or after applying?
Were you applying in the morning?
Were you showering before applying?

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## roxer

> Have had Axiron recommended by my Doctor. I had a severe reaction to the injections and says this is better. Wanted to know if anybody has had any severe reactions to Axiron. Very low test levels and basically almost always get mistaken for a young woman and look at least 10 yrs younger than I am. Any advice/symptom thing would be appreciated.
> 
> My 1st time posting.


I am starting to think the 1.62 version of Androgel is the best out of all of them. Axiron is OK, but I don't think is absorbed as good as Testim. Testim gave me the best levels and consistent feel, but after a while, it tailed off as my body stopped producing and I dropped back to 400. After a point, that will happen.

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## 2Sox

Ludicrous, Roxer,
There is lots to say regarding your posts. One of the valuable things I learned from this forum is that no two men are the same. Some men will feel like Superman at 400 and another will feel like shite at 700. You just can't go by numbers alone. Some men just love T injections, others don't do well with them. The same with gels. You've got to find what's good for you. The folks on this forum have given me this same advice when I was looking for answers.

Another thing I've learned is that rising estradiol levels come with any form of TRT. And if your estradiol levels are too high, you'll feel like crap even if your total T is up there. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but it's my understanding that gels have a tendency to raise E2 levels higher than other delivery systems. So if you haven't been keeping an eye on your estradiol, it's a good idea to look into it. 

Something else you may want to consider is injecting hCG . Helps raise T levels and keeps your stones from shrinking, but the main benefit is that you'll feel a lot better.

I tried shots and wasn't wild about them - although to be fair I didn't do them long enough to make a truly scientific evaluation. Now I use Androgel - 2 pumps a day, I take an aromatase inhibitor to keep my E2 levels in check - .25mg anastrozole twice a week, and I pin hCG at 250 iu EOD - for now. I'm going to 100iu ED next month. I feel pretty good. But that's me. 

Give it time and this forum will help you find the answers you're looking for.

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## The Deadlifting Dog

2Sox,

Injections tend to raise estrogen more then gels. 
Gels tend to raise DHT more than injections.

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## Rusty11

Testim works for me. I think it may just boil down to skin type. I'm of Norwegian decent, so I'm fair-skinned. My Italian uncle, who hasn't worn a shirt in 20 years, has horse hide for skin. There's no way any substance is penetrating through that.
If it's been months with no results, it's time for injections. Good luck.

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## roxer

> Ludicrous, Roxer,
> There is lots to say regarding your posts. One of the valuable things I learned from this forum is that no two men are the same. Some men will feel like Superman at 400 and another will feel like shite at 700. You just can't go by numbers alone. Some men just love T injections, others don't do well with them. The same with gels. You've got to find what's good for you. The folks on this forum have given me this same advice when I was looking for answers.
> 
> Another thing I've learned is that rising estradiol levels come with any form of TRT. And if your estradiol levels are too high, you'll feel like crap even if your total T is up there. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but it's my understanding that gels have a tendency to raise E2 levels higher than other delivery systems. So if you haven't been keeping an eye on your estradiol, it's a good idea to look into it. 
> 
> Something else you may want to consider is injecting hCG . Helps raise T levels and keeps your stones from shrinking, but the main benefit is that you'll feel a lot better.
> 
> I tried shots and wasn't wild about them - although to be fair I didn't do them long enough to make a truly scientific evaluation. Now I use Androgel - 2 pumps a day, I take an aromatase inhibitor to keep my E2 levels in check - .25mg anastrozole twice a week, and I pin hCG at 250 iu EOD - for now. I'm going to 100iu ED next month. I feel pretty good. But that's me. 
> 
> Give it time and this forum will help you find the answers you're looking for.


Yeah, I'd say I did jump the gun a little. Testim worked great for me, no lie. For two years it worked, but I am an outdoors guy. I coach football and like to take 3 day hikes. The hikes got shorter and the football moved to late afternoons with middle schoolers. So I had to adjust my schedule around to get this to work for me.

My levels on Testim were great - got to 800 on my first blood test after. The GP almost had a heart attack. She thought it was too high. Little does she know. I even tried clomid, but that never got me past my original level of 300. So all I can say is, find what works for you. Now I can go on those long hikes with my dad (76 and still kicking ass). And yeah, I'm one of those needs to be over 700 guys to feel right.

Funny note - took my second shot Monday and thought I hit a vein. Started breathing funny like there was something in my lungs. I was like oh shit, what have I done? Haha, was bronchitis kicking in. Stupid me.

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## Ludicrous

Thanks DLD

The blood tests are 3 hours after morning application. I believe I will feel better at the lever you are at but I just cannot get there with Axiron which has more steroid per application than Androgel so I am lost.

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## Ludicrous

Thank you 2Sox

I will see my doctor soon with this information to see what he has to say. I don't want to move from Axrion with delivers more steroid than Androgel and quite frankly I pay 345.00 for Axiron and my insurance picks up 80percent then Lilly sends my a check for 125.00. I actually make money but I cannot get my level above 400 and at this level I feel like doodoo.

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## dreadnok89

I think they are both garbage for the amount of money we pay for them. Axe iron application process is silly and messy. I might switch to shots soon

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## dreadnok89

> Thank you 2Sox
> 
> I will see my doctor soon with this information to see what he has to say. I don't want to move from Axrion with delivers more steroid than Androgel and quite frankly I pay 345.00 for Axiron and my insurance picks up 80percent then Lilly sends my a check for 125.00. I actually make money but I cannot get my level above 400 and at this level I feel like doodoo.



Its a waste of time and money when shots are extremely cheap compared to gel. I just get disgusted how much they charge the insurance companies.

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## roxer

> Thank you 2Sox
> 
> I will see my doctor soon with this information to see what he has to say. I don't want to move from Axrion with delivers more steroid than Androgel and quite frankly I pay 345.00 for Axiron and my insurance picks up 80percent then Lilly sends my a check for 125.00. I actually make money but I cannot get my level above 400 and at this level I feel like doodoo.


I think there is a saturation point when putting on Axiron a second time, as in two applications to the same area. There's not a lot of real estate there compared to the stomach area or shoulders for Androgel and Testim respectively. Fatty layers seem to be an issue too, but then everyone is different in their ability to absorb transdermals.

I did well with both, it's just that they have a limit and shots, for me, give me an easier way to dial in my dosage and its usually the same dosage every time. Sweat a little or have your clothing absord part of the med with a transdermal and that's not so possible.

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## 2Sox

> Its a waste of time and money when shots are extremely cheap compared to gel. I just get disgusted how much they charge the insurance companies.


This is true. I guess you've got to weigh all the factors to make the final decision. I pay $40 a month co-pay for gel with the discount card from Abbot. Your doctor can give you one and it's good for a year. Then you can get another one after it expires. Testim has a similar discount coupon and I'd guess so does Axiron.

If I had to do shots, I'd pin twice a week like many on the forum do. hCG and ai's go with the program.

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## dreadnok89

I bring that up because recently my insurance said they won't cover abdro gel 1.62 which worked amazingly. But want me to use testim or axe iron which are garbage and more expensive. My estro rises with gel alot

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## Ludicrous

> I think there is a saturation point when putting on Axiron a second time, as in two applications to the same area. There's not a lot of real estate there compared to the stomach area or shoulders for Androgel and Testim respectively. Fatty layers seem to be an issue too, but then everyone is different in their ability to absorb transdermals.
> 
> I did well with both, it's just that they have a limit and shots, for me, give me an easier way to dial in my dosage and its usually the same dosage every time. Sweat a little or have your clothing absord part of the med with a transdermal and that's not so possible.



Going to doctor today armed with advise from this site, I have to get answers as to why I can not get my levels to rise more and why I still feel like crap at 400. I will ask doc to check my E2 level too. Maybe shots are the answer for me. I can tell you I hardly ever hit the under arms correctly. I usually end up with the med running down to my ankles and I have to put on four applications. Doc told me I could put it on my stomach or legs too. Axiron told me it was only tested on underarms which I am sure is correct but for me to have to wait for it to dry first is a waist of time. I don't know if I should try greasing up my shoulders with gel because it will probably take longer for it to dry vs Axiron.

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## dreadnok89

> Going to doctor today armed with advise from this site, I have to get answers as to why I can not get my levels to rise more and why I still feel like crap at 400. I will ask doc to check my E2 level too. Maybe shots are the answer for me. I can tell you I hardly ever hit the under arms correctly. I usually end up with the med running down to my ankles and I have to put on four applications. Doc told me I could put it on my stomach or legs too. Axiron told me it was only tested on underarms which I am sure is correct but for me to have to wait for it to dry first is a waist of time. I don't know if I should try greasing up my shoulders with gel because it will probably take longer for it to dry vs Axiron.



Why would a gel take less time to dry then strait liquid? 1.62 androgel dries insanely quick

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## Tom57

Started Axiron 17 daya ago.2 x 1.5 ml dose in am.Feeling a little more energy not much else.I go for blood test Monday to check levels. What should I expect next? Thank You !

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## powerlifterty16

axiron isnt a good choice imo..only gel id use is testim, but im not a gel person...if i go on trt it will be subq shots for me.

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## xcraider37

> Started Axiron 17 daya ago.2 x 1.5 ml dose in am.Feeling a little more energy not much else.I go for blood test Monday to check levels. What should I expect next? Thank You !


Two pumps of axiron probably is going to leave you lower than when you started. For me axiron 4pumps per day was not very stable, it seemed to give me high levels first few hours then really bottomed out after that, but your just starting so be patient. And yes you could split the dose but how inconvenient is that, plus the underarm sweating was ridiculous.

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## laser

Ask your Pharmacist, it may surprise you but Pharmacist can tell you a great deal more than Doctors when it comes to prescriptions.

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## powerlifterty16

> Ask your Pharmacist, it may surprise you but Pharmacist can tell you a great deal more than Doctors when it comes to prescriptions.


when i was going for my hcg shots, one pharmacist told me it was dangerous and would kill my libido, the other almost refused to give me the subq needles after i had already paid for the injections.

you have your good and bad ones.

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