# GENERAL FORUM > IN THE NEWS >  Michael Vick plead guilty...

## kfrost06

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) -- Two of Michael Vick's alleged cohorts in a grisly dogfighting case pleaded guilty Friday, and one said the Atlanta Falcons quarterback joined them in drowning and hanging dogs that underperformed. 

With his NFL career in jeopardy and a superseding indictment in the works to add more charges, Vick and his lawyers have been talking with federal prosecutors about a possible plea agreement. 

Now that all three co-defendants have entered plea bargains, Vick is on his own to cut a deal or face trial on federal charges. 

The court docket did not list any appearance for Vick. One of his lawyers, Lawrence Woodward, attended Friday's hearings and declined to answer questions as he left the courthouse. 

Purnell Peace, 35, of Virginia Beach and Quanis Phillips, 28, of Atlanta entered plea agreements and joined defendant Tony Taylor of Hampton, who struck a similar deal last month. The agreements require the three to cooperate in the government's case against Vick. 

Sentencing is scheduled for Peace and Phillips on Nov. 30 and Taylor on Dec. 14. Vick has been barred from training camp by the NFL and is to go on trial Nov. 26. 

A statement signed by Phillips as part of his plea agreement said Vick participated in the execution of about eight dogs, some by drowning and hanging. 

"Phillips agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of Peace, Phillips and Vick," the statement said. 

Phillips and Peace also backed Taylor's assertion that Vick was involved in gambling. 

"The 'Bad Newz Kennels' operation and gambling monies were almost exclusively funded by Vick," statements by the two men say. 

Peace and Phillips were charged with conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and conspiring to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture. 

"Did you conspire with these folks to sponsor a dogfighting venture?" U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson asked Peace. 

He replied, "Yes, sir." 

The offenses are punishable by up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine, but the exact sentence will be based largely on federal sentencing guidelines. Hudson told Peace and Phillips that certain elements of their offenses will increase their sentencing ranges. 

"There are aggravating circumstances in this case, there's no doubt about it," he told Phillips. 

While Peace was freed, Hudson found that Phillips violated terms of his release by failing a drug test and ordered him jailed. Phillips also is on probation for a drug conviction in Atlanta, and the guilty plea could mean more jail time in that case, Hudson said. 

Any outcome that ties Vick to betting on the dogfights could trigger a lifetime ban from the NFL under the league's personal conduct policy. 

The 27-year-old quarterback was linked to betting by a statement signed by Taylor, who pleaded guilty and agreed to cooperate with the government, and the July 17 indictment. 

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell withheld further action while the NFL conducts its own investigation. NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said the league had no comment on the latest pleas. 

About 30 animal-rights activists gathered outside the courtroom. Afterward, as police officers cleared the scene, protesters continued waving large pictures of a mutilated dog. 

"This is one dogfighting ring that's been annihilated," said John Goodwin, a spokesman for the Humane Society of the United States. 

The four defendants all initially pleaded not guilty, and Vick issued a statement saying he looked forward to clearing his name. 

A statement of facts signed by Taylor as part of his plea agreement placed Vick at the scene of several dogfights and linked him to betting. Taylor said Vick financed virtually all the "Bad Newz Kennels" operation on Vick's property in Surry County. 

The case began with a search in April that turned up dozens of pit bulls and an assortment of dogfighting paraphernalia at the property, a few miles from Vick's hometown of Newport News. According to the indictment, dogs that lost fights or fared poorly in test fights were sometimes executed by hanging, electrocution or other means.

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## RA

Hell cut a deal too

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## kfrost06

Could this mean jail time for Vick? Should it mean jail time?

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## RA

Oh yeah...hes going to jail for sure.

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## m8intl

> Could this mean jail time for Vick? Should it mean jail time?


If he's found guilty, I hope he goes to jail. Drowning and hanging dogs? That's some fvcked up shit. Who the fvck gets their jollies killing animals?  : 1106:

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## 305GUY

> Could this mean jail time for Vick? Should it mean jail time?


Oh i really hope so, and it looks like it just might happen.. yippie!... they need to make an example out of Vick for the other rich-wannabe-gangsta millionaires in the NFL and NBA, but besides that anyone who can kill a dog in such a way can easily kill a human IMO. i mean how the f*ck can you drown, or hang, and even electrocute a dog for f*ck sake!?!? you gotta be sick in the head to do that imo...

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## Kratos

My sister has an abused bull dog that was trained to fight. It is an incredibly cruel sport, in training, fighting, and the death that usually follows. When she got the dog he was starved down to 25 pounds (should be 60 or 70) to make him more agressive. After they get done starving the dogs the take small puppies, stuff their rectums with meat, and put the dogs in a cage together. The fighting dogs learn to connect food with ripping another dog apart. I have no respect for anyone who thinks dog fights are cool.

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## Logan13

Anyone still want to stick up for him?

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## kfrost06

someone will and it will be a liberal, no doubts about that.

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## dwaynewade

> Oh i really hope so, and it looks like it just might happen.. yippie!... they need to make an example out of Vick for the other rich-wannabe-gangsta millionaires in the NFL and NBA, but besides that anyone who can kill a dog in such a way can easily kill a human IMO. i mean how the f*ck can you drown, or hang, and even electrocute a dog for f*ck sake!?!? you gotta be sick in the head to do that imo...


DITTO...this shit is KRZ

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## Hoggage_54

When one of Vick's dogs gave up a fight, they were either drowned, electrocuted, hung, or beaten to death against the ground. Now since it looks like Vick might be giving up his fight, by his own standards, shouldn't that mean the same for him?

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## Mogamedogz

Hopefully (if he pleas), he will be punished accordingly. No more lenient (or harshly) than what the law calls for.

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## Flagg

Well I just hope Vick doesn't get the Hilton treatment in the slammer, though his crime is abhorant compared to her. 

**** someone should toss that prick into a pit full of tigers.

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## BgMc31

> someone will and it will be a liberal, no doubts about that.



Stop trying to make this a liberal v. conservative issue, Kfrost. Especially since PETA is the organization leading this witch hunt. And there is no denying that PETA is one of the most liberal organizations in the world.

As for Logans statement... I don't think anyone was defending him. All anyone was saying was let the punishment fit the crime. Hell, the woman who shot her preacher husband didn't get as much time as Vick will get and she killed a human being and the father of two children. Many murderers don't get the punishment that Vick is facing. 

As much as I love my bulldog (whom I rescued from a shelter here in Vegas, and was used for fighting), but to many he's just a dog. And in many parts of this country and the world they are looked upon as just that... dogs!!! As long as people get lenient jail sentences for murder, DUI resulting in death,drug dealing, wife beating, and other heinous crimes then I will continue tcall this a witch hunt. We are all suffer from Snoopy syndrome. 

As a matter of fact, recently here in Nevada, a man threw a sack full of new born pups out the window of his truck, drove over them and all he got was 6mos probation and a $1500 fine. I guarantee Mike Vick would get a similar punishment if he weren't Mike Vick.

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## dwaynewade

> Stop trying to make this a liberal v. conservative issue, Kfrost. Especially since PETA is the organization leading this witch hunt. And there is no denying that PETA is one of the most liberal organizations in the world.
> 
> As for Logans statement... I don't think anyone was defending him. All anyone was saying was let the punishment fit the crime. Hell, the woman who shot her preacher husband didn't get as much time as Vick will get and she killed a human being and the father of two children. Many murderers don't get the punishment that Vick is facing. 
> 
> As much as I love my bulldog (whom I rescued from a shelter here in Vegas, and was used for fighting), but to many he's just a dog. And in many parts of this country and the world they are looked upon as just that... dogs!!! As long as people get lenient jail sentences for murder, DUI resulting in death,drug dealing, wife beating, and other heinous crimes then I will continue tcall this a witch hunt. We are all suffer from Snoopy syndrome. 
> 
> As a matter of fact, *recently here in Nevada, a man threw a sack full of new born pups out the window of his truck, drove over them and all he got was 6mos probation and a $1500 fine*. I guarantee Mike Vick would get a similar punishment if he weren't Mike Vick.



WTF????

PPL in Nevada are nuts! no pun intended

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## Logan13

> WTF????
> 
> PPL in Nevada are nuts! no pun intended


The difference is that Vick caught a Federal indictment, not a state one like in Bg's example. But Bg will probably say that this has nothing to do with it. The difference in his mind is that the guy in Nevada was probably white, and Vick is black........ :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## jerseyboy

I still want to see Vick put in the ring with Quinton Jackson. Let Jackson pound on this coward for a few minutes so he can see first hand what it feels like. I would take great pleasure in watching this scumbag cry for mercy as he's bleeding on the ground.

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## dwaynewade

> I still want to see Vick put in the ring with Quinton Jackson. Let Jackson pound on this coward for a few minutes so he can see first hand what it feels like. I would take great pleasure in watching this scumbag cry for mercy as he's bleeding on the ground.


then we'll wet him and then...

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## BgMc31

> I still want to see Vick put in the ring with Quinton Jackson. Let Jackson pound on *this coward* for a few minutes so he can see first hand what it feels like. I would take great pleasure in watching this scumbag cry for mercy as he's bleeding on the ground.



Why is he a coward? Yeah he's a scumbag for fighting dogs, but he never backed down from anyone or anybody. And anyone who puts his body on the line and plays football the way he does, ain't no coward. Maybe you should try it sometime...

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## BgMc31

> The difference is that Vick caught a Federal indictment, not a state one like in Bg's example. But Bg will probably say that this has nothing to do with it. The difference in his mind is that the guy in Nevada was probably white, and Vick is black........



Actually the guy in Nevada was black Logan. And how do you know what goes on in my mind? Your antics are getting old and you're beginning to sound desperate. Again you're a racist bigot, everyone knows it, so stop trying to paint others with your miscolored brush! :Evil2:  You're in a class all by yourself so enjoy the loneliness.

As for you comments about a Federal indictment, the federal indictment that carries the most weight is the interstate commerce (gambling) that's alleged, not necessarily the dog fighting. And did you forget that the state of Virginia is also preparing charges that carry 3-5yrs for the dog fighting itself.

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## jerseyboy

> Why is he a coward? Yeah he's a scumbag for fighting dogs, but he never backed down from anyone or anybody. And anyone who puts his body on the line and plays football the way he does, ain't no coward. Maybe you should try it sometime...


He's a ****ing coward because he doesn't step in the ring himself and do his own fighting. He lets some poor dog do it so he can feel like a tough guy. Yeah football is a rough sport but it is nothing like submission fighting. Not only am I too old but I have no athletic talent or I would be glad to play football. What's there to be afraid of? You get hit and maybe break some bones. Big deal. He's getting paid millions to risk injury. What did his dogs get? A bowl of food if they one. A good bludgeoning or a hanging if they lose. He's a ****ing coward because he abuses defenseless dogs for his own sick amusement.

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## BgMc31

I played professional footballl so I believe you are over simplifying the sport with probably the best pure athletes on the planet. I don't want to try to turn this into a submission fighting vs football debate, but these guys get paid millions for a reason. And if football wasn't so tough, then why do more guys die and sustain many more delibitating injuries playing football than submission fighting, boxing, or MMA (total numbers and percentage wise). Tell you what try getting into a car accident 40-60 times a day for 20+ years and see how tough it is.

The man's no coward. Piece of shit... yeah, but coward... no. I've brought this up before, since Roy Jones fights and so does his chickens, I guess he's no coward, but a piece of shit all the same...

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## jerseyboy

Well one things for sure. Vick won't be playing football again any time soon.

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## Mogamedogz

> I played professional footballl so I believe you are over simplifying the sport with probably the best pure athletes on the planet. I don't want to try to turn this into a submission fighting vs football debate, but these guys get paid millions for a reason. And if football wasn't so tough, then why do more guys die and sustain many more delibitating injuries playing football than submission fighting, boxing, or MMA (total numbers and percentage wise). Tell you what try getting into a car accident 40-60 times a day for 20+ years and see how tough it is.
> 
> The man's no coward. Piece of shit... yeah, but coward... no. I've brought this up before, since Roy Jones fights and so does his chickens, I guess he's no coward, but a piece of shit all the same...



I agree with just about everything you say in this thread. You are spot on IMO.

Shit... I admire fighting dogs. (*Not to be confused with condoning Dog Fighting*). I think they are very unique and special animals. My handle (and OG fantasy football team name) derives from Fighting dogs. Mo= More, Game=Gamebred, Dogz. My wife and I run a small rescue for Pit Bulls, especially those who were used for fighting. They make WONDERFUL pets actually! Believe it or not, TRUE fighting dogs are NOT HUMAN AGGRESSIVE!! Most people dont know this, because they listen to all the BS they hear from the media. 

It's not like these guys were forcing the dogs to fight... they ALLOWED them to fight. After all, they are "Fighting" dogs. Just like Greyhounds are bred to run, Pit Bulldogs are bred to "fight". That doesnt make it MORALLY ok to enter them into Pit matches... but it is no more wrong than hunting defenseless animals for sport IMO. 

*Personally, I find what they did disgusting.* But I think people are overreacting to this thing.... BIG TIME. Fighting a dog and being a coward have absolutely nothing to do with one another. 

Vick should be punished for breaking the law (if he pleads or is found guilty), but it shouldnt be anymore excessive than what the usual sentence is. At the end of the day... dogs are NOT HUMANS. I think our culture is wayyyy too sensitive about this kind of thing. JMO.

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## brewerpi

In 1998 Leonard Little of the NFL (Rams) killed a 47 year old woman while driving drunk-he did 9 months in jail and was suspended for 8 games. He has been caught driving drunk again but his lawyer convinced a jury that the arresting officer did not properly administer the 3 field sobriety tests, that Little failed.
By that standard, sending Vick to prison for killing dogs is silly. Having said that I hope he gets at least 18 months. When he has served his time if some team wants to hire him I say fine-tell PETA to go back to protesting Oscar Meyer...
I live across the street from four pitbulls and they are docile, playful animals, therefore I don't buy in to the notion that these animals are fighters and Vick and his scumbag crew were "allowing" them to fight.
I think you have to do a lot of cruel and unusual crap to those dogs to get them that way, and that the people involved enjoyed it and enjoy killing the animals when they don't perform.

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## jerseyboy

> At the end of the day... dogs are NOT HUMANS. I think our culture is wayyyy too sensitive about this kind of thing. JMO.


No actually in many ways they're better. They aren't malicious. They can't be fake, put up a front, lie or pretend they're something they aren't. Most people will screw you any chance they get. Dogs are more loyal and their love is unconditional. To most dogs and Pits especially, pleasing there owner and being close to him is there main concern. They are very simple creatures that rely on us for care and protection. When I see people abusing and neglecting them it makes me furious. Call me overly sensitive. Dogs bring me more joy than most people have.
As for my statement that Vick is a coward. I stand by it. It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. As a matter of fact I find it trivial to even argue the point. It's not even relevant to the issue that I find dog fighting cowardly. The man won't do any kind of real fighting himself but relies on his dogs to try and prove his manliness for him. His ability to play professional football does not change anything. My buddy plays arena football. I respect him for it, I think it's very cool and takes alot of talent. But when he told me he was going to play my first thought wasn't how brave he was. It's a sport. It's not like he's going off to war. I have more than a few friends that have served in Iraq and at least one who is going back. To me, they are the brave ones.

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## Big

> No actually in many ways they're better. They aren't malicious. They can't be fake, put up a front, lie or pretend they're something they aren't. Most people will screw you any chance they get. Dogs are more loyal and their love is unconditional. To most dogs and Pits especially, pleasing there owner and being close to him is there main concern. They are very simple creatures that rely on us for care and protection. When I see people abusing and neglecting them it makes me furious. Call me overly sensitive. Dogs bring me more joy than most people have.
> As for my statement that Vick is a coward. I stand by it. It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. As a matter of fact I find it trivial to even argue the point. It's not even relevant to the issue that I find dog fighting cowardly. The man won't do any kind of real fighting himself but relies on his dogs to try and prove his manliness for him. His ability to play professional football does not change anything. My buddy plays arena football. I respect him for it, I think it's very cool and takes alot of talent. But when he told me he was going to play my first thought wasn't how brave he was. It's a sport. It's not like he's going off to war. I have more than a few friends that have served in Iraq and at least one who is going back. To me, they are the brave ones.


very well stated

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## dwaynewade

wow... ditto

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## Logan13

> very well stated


+1.........

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## Logan13

> Actually the guy in Nevada was black Logan.


So are you trying to insinuate that black men have no compassion for animals?

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## jerseyboy

Oh Christ now it's a race issue. The dogfighting ring that was busted here a few years back was run buy some white guy out of his fathers warehouse. I don't remember for sure but I believe it lost his father his business.

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## Mogamedogz

> No actually in many ways they're better.


...IMO, this line of thinking is a bigger problem than dog fighting. 

NO. They are NOT BETTER. They are lesser creatures than "man". We are ABOVE them on the food chain. We OWN them... we control what/when/if they eat. We decide when they should breed, and when we should put them to death. As much as we love them, and accept selected ones as members of our family.... In REALITY, they are still JUST dogs. 

While all of the touchy feely stuff you said is true (about their unconditional love and loyalty), it still does not make their lives EQUAL to the live of a human being. ANY human being. 

My wife and I run a small Pit Bull rescue league (we have for the last eight years). I would bet anything I own, that we have sacrificed more of our time, energy, and MONEY for the good of the breed, than any of the other people in this thread COMBINED. I have spent my entire life (and will spend the rest of my life) fighting for the well being of these dogs. That said; I would sacrifice the lives of 1000 dogs if I knew it would save the life of ONE human being. 

Thats not to say I condone dog fighting, or condone inhumane treatment of animals, just that I consider human life more valuable. (Im sure being human, probably has something to do with that!  :Wink/Grin:  ) 

Now dont get me wrong... I LOVE MY DOGS. But all the theoretical and spiritual mumbo-jumbo really isnt relevant to this discussion IMO. 

As far as you people who think these dogs were "Forced" to fight... step back and think really hard about that. 

If you race dogs as a hobby, and $$ is not an option, are you going to buy your brood stock from a family of dogs who are known for producing sub-par racing dogs?? No. You are going to buy top of the line quality dogs, from a winning bloodline. You will not have to TRAIN the dogs to chase a rabbit. They will know to do it instinctually. 

Same goes for "top of the line quality" fighting dogs. They do not have to be TAUGHT to fight. They are born with the instinct to do it. (This shouldnt be confused with HUMAN AGRESSION which most TRUE fighting dogs are NOT born with.) If you have ever seen a litter of fighting dog puppies, you would notice that from the time they can walk and play, they are ALREADY going at it!! I have seen litters of puppies who would kill one another by 9 weeks old. Literally. 

Listen guys... *I LOVE my dogs*  (probably more than most). The closest friend I ever knew in my life was a dog. If anyone were to hurt my dogs (without reason), I would most likely try to hurt them in return. 

HOWEVER, I just can not equate a dogs life, to that of a human being. It just seems silly to me. Maybe im just not wired to be as sensitive as others... who knows!?  :Shrug:  

But if you all REALLY want to help out donate $$ to NO KILL shelters; particularly those which rescue APBTs (American Pit Bull Terriers), and not PETA or HSUS. If you cant find any, email me, and I will send you a list of them. 

Just PLEASE... stop being "Sheeple". Nothing good ever comes from a Mob Mentality. Bashing Vick does NOTHING to help the cause which you all *seem* to be so passionate about. Stop whining and dreaming up rediculously harsh punishments, and SUPPORT the folks who have the best interest of these dogs in mind. I assure you, PETA and HSUS DO NOT. They KILL more (adoptable) Pit Bulls every year (which are unfairly deemed "Vicious") than ANYONE.

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## RA

> ...IMO, this line of thinking is a bigger problem than dog fighting. 
> 
> NO. They are NOT BETTER. They are lesser creatures than "man". We are ABOVE them on the food chain. We OWN them... we control what/when/if they eat. We decide when they should breed, and when we should put them to death. As much as we love them, and accept selected ones as members of our family.... In REALITY, they are still JUST dogs. 
> 
> While all of the touchy feely stuff you said is true (about their unconditional love and loyalty), it still does not make their lives EQUAL to the live of a human being. ANY human being. 
> 
> My wife and I run a small Pit Bull rescue league (we have for the last eight years). I would bet anything I own, that we have sacrificed more of our time, energy, and MONEY for the good of the breed, than any of the other people in this thread COMBINED. I have spent my entire life (and will spend the rest of my life) fighting for the well being of these dogs. That said; I would sacrifice the lives of 1000 dogs if I knew it would save the life of ONE human being. 
> 
> Thats not to say I condone dog fighting, or condone inhumane treatment of animals, just that I consider human life more valuable. (Im sure being human, probably has something to do with that!  ) 
> ...


 
Done with the soapbox??

Im going to make up signs. Vick is a dick :7up:

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## Mogamedogz

> Done with the soapbox??
> 
> Im going to make up signs. Vick is a dick


I have MORE than earned my right to preech atop this one bro. Trust me.

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## jon77

Hmmmm....I C, very interesting comments on here. I live near Atlanta and the media blows this story up every single night. I do have some thoughts on this issue,but I will keep them to myself,as I'm sure they will bring about more tension in this thread than there already is. But I will say this. This team is done already. Dunn is hurt, Crumpler is hurt, too many other injuries to list. Mora was fired for comments he made during the season last year to a radio talk show in Seattle. Mora was the best thing that happened to this team in a long time, and now he's gone. I've always been a fan, but this year, I'm gonna have to cheer on Green Bay, as this is Brett's last season........new record approaching!!!!

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## ginkobulloba

Right on dude, go Packers! Favre is gonna let some magic fly this year, it could be his last season. Vick's done for as a NFL qb, at least that's the way it's shaping up at this point.

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## dwaynewade

> ...IMO, this line of thinking is a bigger problem than dog fighting. 
> 
> NO. They are NOT BETTER. They are lesser creatures than "man". We are ABOVE them on the food chain. We OWN them... we control what/when/if they eat. We decide when they should breed, and when we should put them to death. As much as we love them, and accept selected ones as members of our family.... In REALITY, they are still JUST dogs. 
> 
> While all of the touchy feely stuff you said is true (about their unconditional love and loyalty), it still does not make their lives EQUAL to the live of a human being. ANY human being. 
> 
> My wife and I run a small Pit Bull rescue league (we have for the last eight years). I would bet anything I own, that we have sacrificed more of our time, energy, and MONEY for the good of the breed, than any of the other people in this thread COMBINED. I have spent my entire life (and will spend the rest of my life) fighting for the well being of these dogs. That said; I would sacrifice the lives of 1000 dogs if I knew it would save the life of ONE human being. 
> 
> Thats not to say I condone dog fighting, or condone inhumane treatment of animals, just that I consider human life more valuable. (Im sure being human, probably has something to do with that!  ) 
> ...



hmm... sounds ironic coming from you and your experience with dogs, it is a somewhat an objective point of view, but there are many ppl that see it differently. I think compassion plays a role. And i see all animals as my equal. Whether we are atop of the food chain or not. I do however respect your opinion and admire the work you do to help those poor dogs.

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## RA

> I have MORE than earned my right to preech atop this one bro. Trust me.


You say you dont condone it, thats good. Some people want to take out their frustration about an idiot who abuses animals in a thread on the internet and your calling them "sheeple" 

If you truly dont condone it then whats the fuss?

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## kfrost06

> hmm... sounds ironic coming from you and your experience with dogs, it is a somewhat an objective point of view, but there are many ppl that see it differently. I think compassion plays a role. *And i see all animals as my equal. Whether we are atop of the food chain or not.* I do however respect your opinion and admire the work you do to help those poor dogs.


animals as equals to humans? :Hmmmm:

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## kfrost06

RICHMOND, Virginia (Ticker) - Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick has reportedly accepted a plea deal on federal charges relating to allegations of his involvement in a professional dogfighting operation. 

The Virginian-Pilot newspaper is reporting on its website that Vick's attorney Lawrence Woodward said *Vick has accepted a deal which will include jail time*. 

He will formally enter the guilty plea next Monday, the newspaper reported. 

"Mike's accepting full responsibility," Woodward told the newspaper. "He's going to do everything he can personally and professionally to make this situation right." 

Earlier on Monday, CNN had reported that *federal prosecutors had offered Vick a deal recommending an 18-to-36 month prison sentence*. 

According to the Virginian-Pilot, Vick is expected to serve at least a year, but the final decision will rest with the judge. 

Vick is among four men who allegedly formed the business called "Bad Newz Kennels" that are charged with federal conspiracy dogfighting charges. 

The others accused, Purnell A. Peace, Quanis L. Phillips, and Troy Taylor, had entered into plea agreements with federal prosecutors and were said to be ready to testify against Vick. 

Peace and Phillips made their decisions Friday. Prior to that, Vick had appeared ready to fight the charges.

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## kfrost06

wow, from NFL superstar to jail.

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## Mogamedogz

> wow, from NFL superstar to jail.


Not Jail... Prison!

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## kfrost06

yes, even worse. The judge can reject the plea and/or impose his own sentence. Do you think that's a fair sentence?

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## jon77

:0peter:  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :Aapimp:

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## 305GUY

:Party Smiley TAP:

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## Logan13

sighhhhhhhhhh.............
another victim of the system :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Logan13

> Hmmmm....I C, very interesting comments on here. I live near Atlanta and the media blows this story up every single night. I do have some thoughts on this issue,but I will keep them to myself,as I'm sure they will bring about more tension in this thread than there already is. But I will say this. This team is done already. *Dunn is hurt*, Crumpler is hurt, too many other injuries to list. Mora was fired for comments he made during the season last year to a radio talk show in Seattle. Mora was the best thing that happened to this team in a long time, and now he's gone. I've always been a fan, but this year, I'm gonna have to cheer on Green Bay, as this is Brett's last season........new record approaching!!!!


Hopefully Dunn will make a speedy recovery. Not only a great athlete, but one hell of a guy as well.

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## jon77

> Hopefully Dunn will make a speedy recovery. Not only a great athlete, but one hell of a guy as well.


True. He's had a hectic life. But he's got the discipline to hold it all together.

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## ftony

> I played professional footballl so I believe you are over simplifying the sport with probably the best pure athletes on the planet. I don't want to try to turn this into a submission fighting vs football debate, but these guys get paid millions for a reason. And if football wasn't so tough, then why do more guys die and sustain many more delibitating injuries playing football than submission fighting, boxing, or MMA (total numbers and percentage wise). Tell you what try getting into a car accident 40-60 times a day for 20+ years and see how tough it is.
> 
> The man's no coward. Piece of shit... yeah, but coward... no. I've brought this up before, since Roy Jones fights and so does his chickens, I guess he's no coward, but a piece of shit all the same...


Really not a coward??Let me ask this, what type of person does it take to kill a defenseless Vulnerable animal.When I say defenseless and Vulnerable,Its because the dog looks to his owner for guidance and direction as a pack leader..Now I ask you again what type of person would do something like that.No worries, I will tell you. A coward piece of shit.Do you think he would come in my yard not knowing my APBT and try and hang him,hahaha,LOL....I bet his entire salary he would not so much step foot in my yard, ya even with all his nfl car crashing experiences.I must add if he did try he would be ripped to shit.Thats why he's a coward piece of shit, take advantage of those or things that are Vulnerable step off when things are a threat to you..That's mike vick..He sucks anyway he couldn't hit the side of a barn, coward piece of shit...

----------


## Logan13

Originally Posted by BgMc31
I played professional footballl so I believe you are over simplifying the sport with probably the best pure athletes on the planet. I don't want to try to turn this into a submission fighting vs football debate, but *these guys get paid millions for a reason*. And if football wasn't so tough, then why do more guys die and sustain many more delibitating injuries playing football than submission fighting, boxing, or MMA (total numbers and percentage wise). Tell you what try getting into a car accident 40-60 times a day for 20+ years and see how tough it is.

Please tell me that you are not trying to equate pay with how tough a job is. What 15-18 year old kid has not played football? Ever watch Married with Children Bg?

----------


## jon77

> Really not a coward??Let me ask this, what type of person does it take to kill a defenseless Vulnerable animal.When I say defenseless and Vulnerable,Its because the dog looks to his owner for guidance and direction as a pack leader..Now I ask you again what type of person would do something like that.No worries, I will tell you. A coward piece of shit.Do you think he would come in my yard not knowing my APBT and try and hang him,hahaha,LOL....I bet his entire salary he would not so much step foot in my yard, ya even with all his nfl car crashing experiences.I must add if he did try he would be ripped to shit.Thats why he's a coward piece of shit, take advantage of those or things that are Vulnerable step off when things are a threat to you..That's mike vick..He sucks anyway he couldn't hit the side of a barn, coward piece of shit...


 :Battle:

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## lightwaytbaby

he plead guilty and will get jail time at a minimum of 12-18 months...

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## jon77

:Bbhanging:  .....IMO

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## Mogamedogz

> You say you dont condone it, thats good. Some people want to take out their frustration about an idiot who abuses animals in a thread on the internet and your calling them "sheeple" 
> 
> If you truly dont condone it then whats the fuss?


Because the overreaction of the public, plays right into the hands of my worst enemy... PETA. The people who are attempting to have the APBT BANNED from the face of the earth. That's the underlying motives at play, which nobody (outside of the TRUE supporters of the breed) understands. 

The bigger the public outcry, the fatter their (Peta) pockets get; enabling them to keep pumping *misinformation* about the breed over the air waves, in their never ending crusade to have them "eliminated".

That is why. 

Im not "PRO VICK"... or "PRO DOG FIGHTING"... I'm "PRO PIT BULL". Even if it means keeping my "personal" anger towards him in check, and trying to sway others to look at it from a less "emotional" stand point.

If I could slam the gavel and have him locked away for life *without anyone knowing*... I would. But I refuse to let my personal distaste for the guy and his actions, get in the way of REALISTIC justice.

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## buffgator

You can take the man out of the ghetto, but you cant take the ghetto out of the man. Threw away a beautiful career for this? Crazy

----------


## l2elapse

bye bye vick

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## Lexed

this serious?

----------


## l2elapse

yea its all over espn.com

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## brewerpi

Yes, it will be finalized on the 27th-the beauty of it is that judge is not bound by the terms of the plea agreement, he can give him as much as he wants (up to the maximum).
So right up until the minute the judge announce his sentence Vick will have to sweat it out.
Most of the analysts I've seen say anything beyond two seasons in prison will end any chance of a comeback.

----------


## l2elapse

Michael vick is NOT even a good QB, yes he is talented in athletic ability but he sucks.

----------


## domeyeahaigh

unless he does pushups and shit nonstop...man vick ****ed up

----------


## RA

Im with ya on the peta thing. Damn cock roaches... 

Usually when something bad happens some group tries to take advantage of it..

Good to hear your not rushing out to buy a Vick jersey.. :LOL:  








> Because the overreaction of the public, plays right into the hands of my worst enemy... PETA. The people who are attempting to have the APBT BANNED from the face of the earth. That's the underlying motives at play, which nobody (outside of the TRUE supporters of the breed) understands. 
> 
> The bigger the public outcry, the fatter their (Peta) pockets get; enabling them to keep pumping *misinformation* about the breed over the air waves, in their never ending crusade to have them "eliminated".
> 
> That is why. 
> 
> Im not "PRO VICK"... or "PRO DOG FIGHTING"... I'm "PRO PIT BULL". Even if it means keeping my "personal" anger towards him in check, and trying to sway others to look at it from a less "emotional" stand point.
> 
> If I could slam the gavel and have him locked away for life *without anyone knowing*... I would. But I refuse to let my personal distaste for the guy and his actions, get in the way of REALISTIC justice.

----------


## Mogamedogz

> Im with ya on the peta thing. Damn cock roaches... 
> 
> Usually when something bad happens some group tries to take advantage of it..
> 
> Good to hear your not rushing out to buy a Vick jersey..


Dude, im a Pats fan... Vick is the ANTI-Patriot. lol-

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## eliteforce

I think pitbulls are horrible animals-
Just some things I have read about them doing (absolutly true!): 

..They grab a baby out of a mothers arms and rip it pieces in front of her.

..yesterday 2 of them escaped from their owners premises, entered a home and chewed on a lady as she slept in her bed, she barly escaped alive (saw it on cnn just now)

..owner has them fenced in, they see someones puppy through the cracks, dig under the fence, escape, enter neigbors yard, shred the puppy to pieces.

..they have murdered innocent children, women, and men.

it's really fair that all these innocent human beings (and benign loving housepets) have to be terrorized, mutilated so some animal lovers can have these unthninking preditors as pets.

You guys eat pork don't you, that little cute piggy from "Charlotts Web" it gets butchered on an industrial scale, and it never even killed a single baby, isn't that cruel?-look their animals, this is mother earth; thats how she made it, everyday in the wild nature animals murder each other -you know what, it's not murder, their animals! you think those pit bulls feel remorse when they rip a babies head off? yet you feel sorry for them because they get killed in a dog fight..you guys are trying to get into an animals head..has it ever occured to you that these beasts get off on ripping each other to shreds, that they are vicous preditors and thats all they're good for that once hey reach adulthood (they reach adulthood to fight ofcource) they have no sense of time..if you have a housepet that is locked up in a yard (like it's in a jail) is it really more happy than a stray who fends for itself, i mean you don't like being locked up in jail, why would your dog?

Michael Vik is a alright! The govt should ban all pit buls as pets, the only people that should be allowed to own a pit bull are people like people who keep them double fensed in a gogfighting facility like the one MV was building. At least that way no innocent people get murdered.








> My sister has an abused bull dog that was trained to fight. It is an incredibly cruel sport, in training, fighting, and the death that usually follows. When she got the dog he was starved down to 25 pounds (should be 60 or 70) to make him more agressive. After they get done starving the dogs the take small puppies, stuff their rectums with meat, and put the dogs in a cage together. The fighting dogs learn to connect food with ripping another dog apart. I have no respect for anyone who thinks dog fights are cool.
> 
> When one of Vick's dogs gave up a fight, they were either drowned, electrocuted, hung, or beaten to death against the ground. Now since it looks like Vick might be giving up his fight, by his own standards, shouldn't that mean the same for him?

----------


## RA

rah rah animal torture is good rah rah :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  






> I think pitbulls are horrible animals-
> Just some things I have read about them doing (absolutly true!): 
> 
> ..They grab a baby out of a mothers arms and rip it pieces in front of her.
> 
> ..yesterday 2 of them escaped from their owners premises, entered a home and chewed on a lady as she slept in her bed, she barly escaped alive (saw it on cnn just now)
> 
> ..owner has them fenced in, they see someones puppy through the cracks, dig under the fence, escape, enter neigbors yard, shred the puppy to pieces.
> 
> ...

----------


## ***xxx***

lol yes! burn in hell vick buhahahaha

----------


## Mogamedogz

This could possibly be the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life. Seriously. (And I have read some stupid shit on the internet!)





> I think pitbulls are horrible animals-
> Just some things I have read about them doing (absolutly true!): 
> 
> ..They grab a baby out of a mothers arms and rip it pieces in front of her.
> 
> ..yesterday 2 of them escaped from their owners premises, entered a home and chewed on a lady as she slept in her bed, she barly escaped alive (saw it on cnn just now)
> 
> ..owner has them fenced in, they see someones puppy through the cracks, dig under the fence, escape, enter neigbors yard, shred the puppy to pieces.
> 
> ...

----------


## CheddaNips

haha the vicks are the dumbest ****ing family alive. I hope he goes to jail and i hope it sends a message to all celebs and athletes that they cant get away with murder anymore (cough o.j.). if you do the crime then you should do the time, no matter your rank in society

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## eliteforce

what is so dumb about it? What exactly are pitbulls good for? Would you rather they shred your 5 year old instead of each other..why is it legal to keep these damn things as pets but not legal to fight them..

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## CheddaNips

^^^^ oh and pitt bulls are amazing animals my cousins fiance has a 3yr old and it is huge. they have 2 kids at 4yrs and 13months and it plays with them and is gentle. Um i have never seen a dog that hasn't barked at another dog that is on the street and tried to go after it. its because ppl dont raise them right and leave them outside all day.

----------


## Johny-too-small

Vick is a thing of the past. In a couple of months, when he goes to prison for 18+ months of daily butt-rapings, well never ever hear/talk about him again. We might get a news blip about his waste-of-life getting released on probation, but thats all that will be said.

We will never see Vick in the NFL again or anywhere else for that matter. He is done. He instantly pissed away $100M in endorsements and what about that $130M NFL contract? Bye-bye. The Falcons will in all respects get their $22M signing bonus back too. 

Its no loss really for the NFL or the Falcons anyway. Vick sucked balls as a QB anyway. A 75 career QB rating and more turnovers than touchdowns isnt what Id call a future hall-of-famer. For any NFL team looking for a future QB, Ryan Leaf would be a prize in comparison.

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## jerseyboy

> what is so dumb about it? What exactly are pitbulls good for? Would you rather they shred your 5 year old instead of each other..why is it legal to keep these damn things as pets but not legal to fight them..


You know in 5 years I've never openly flamed anyone on this board but you my friend are a ****ing idiot. You have no idea what your talking about. Your statements are simply the most ignorant thing I've ever read. Get a mind of your own and stop falling for the media machine that has portrayed the bully breeds as killers. Are you drunk? You type like you've been drinking and your barely literate.

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## jerseyboy

Here's some pics of my killer Pitbull attacking my wife and daughter. Oh the humanity!!

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## ftony

> what is so dumb about it? What exactly are pitbulls good for? Would you rather they shred your 5 year old instead of each other..why is it legal to keep these damn things as pets but not legal to fight them..


You know nothing about the breed in which you posted about....That is nothing other than what the media has brainwashed into your head ...Sad

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## Chitown Raider

Found this picture on the net as pertaining to dogfighting. Only view if you have a strong stomach. Just sick IMO.
http://www.usanimalprotection.org/gypsy100.jpg

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## jerseyboy

Yeah I'm not really interested in seeing anything like that. I know what the sport is about.

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## Logan13

> You know in 5 years I've never openly flamed anyone on this board but you my friend are a ****ing idiot. You have no idea what your talking about. Your statements are simply the most ignorant thing I've ever read. Get a mind of your own and stop falling for the media machine that has portrayed the bully breeds as killers. Are you drunk? You type like you've been drinking and your barely literate.


You should have been around when the Religion/Politics forum was still up. This is on par for what he offered in there as well.........

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## Chitown Raider

> You should have been around when the Religion/Politics forum was still up. This is on par for what he offered in there as well.........


Oh jeez. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## eliteforce

You people keep saying how 'stupid' my comments are, but not once do you back up what your saying with anything of substance, just saying it's 'dumb'

these fking useless vicious animals have a clear tendency to escape and hunt down unsuspecting creatures and maim them, you can't stop them from escaping, I just saw something on cnn where they covered a poor woman in blood from head to toe, ptbuls are like no other dog or housepet in their tendency to kil and attackl, i see that picture usanimalprotection-so the f what, let then damn thing finish the fight and it'll die happy, it doesn't understand death and the existence of life it's just a stupid animal, it's put on this earth to kill whatever it sees..jerseyboy puts up some pictures-o sure vthey might be nice to you because you feed them everyday but they get out and at least shred a few kittens or maybe take a kids arm off.

and no one mentioned if they're gonna stop eating pork? so are you? I guess your gonna say all those pigs get to die in a humane way, again trying to get into the head of an animal, your the idiots and anyone with common sense can see that, people who keep pitbulls as pets are f idiots, they could have any god damn breed of dog they want they have to have this one, it's good enough for them that it _ probably_ won't escape and mutilate someone as she sleeps in hjer bed, yea it's worthn it so these selfish bastards can have this damn thing as a pet and they don't go to jail everytime their animal kills / maims someone or something, but this guy goes to jail because he's "cruel" to a ****ing human preditor!

----------


## Flagg

> You people keep saying how 'stupid' my comments are, but not once do you back up what your saying with anything of substance, just saying it's 'dumb'
> 
> these fking useless vicious animals have a clear tendency to escape and hunt down unsuspecting creatures and maim them, you can't stop them from escaping, I just saw something on cnn where they covered a poor woman in blood from head to toe, ptbuls are like no other dog or housepet in their tendency to kil and attackl, i see that picture usanimalprotection-so the f what, let then damn thing finish the fight and it'll die happy, it doesn't understand death and the existence of life it's just a stupid animal, it's put on this earth to kill whatever it sees..jerseyboy puts up some pictures-o sure vthey might be nice to you because you feed them everyday but they get out and at least shred a few kittens or maybe take a kids arm off.
> 
> and no one mentioned if they're gonna stop eating pork? so are you? I guess your gonna say all those pigs get to die in a humane way, again trying to get into the head of an animal, your the idiots and anyone with common sense can see that, people who keep pitbulls as pets are f idiots, they could have any god damn breed of dog they want they have to have this one, it's good enough for them that it _ probably_ won't escape and mutilate someone as she sleeps in hjer bed, yea it's worthn it so these selfish bastards can have this damn thing as a pet and they don't go to jail everytime their animal kills / maims someone or something, but this guy goes to jail because he's "cruel" to a ****ing human preditor!



There's a difference with killing something to eat rather than killing something for the Hell of it. 

Personally I think you don't like the dogs from a personal experience of you're just a slave to Fox, but to think Pitbulls sole existence is to eat babies is the biggest load of shit ive heard.

You seem to be suffering from some sort of pyschosis.

----------


## Logan13

> There's a difference with killing something to eat rather than killing something for the Hell of it. 
> 
> Personally I think you don't like the dogs from a personal experience of you're just a slave to Fox, but to think Pitbulls sole existence is to eat babies is the biggest load of shit ive heard.
> 
> You seem to be suffering from some sort of pyschosis.


He is totally anti-Fox. (i.e. He plays for your team)

----------


## ftony

> You people keep saying how 'stupid' my comments are, but not once do you back up what your saying with anything of substance, just saying it's 'dumb'
> 
> these fking useless vicious animals have a clear tendency to escape and hunt down unsuspecting creatures and maim them, you can't stop them from escaping, I just saw something on cnn where they covered a poor woman in blood from head to toe, ptbuls are like no other dog or housepet in their tendency to kil and attackl, i see that picture usanimalprotection-so the f what, let then damn thing finish the fight and it'll die happy, it doesn't understand death and the existence of life it's just a stupid animal, it's put on this earth to kill whatever it sees..jerseyboy puts up some pictures-o sure vthey might be nice to you because you feed them everyday but they get out and at least shred a few kittens or maybe take a kids arm off.
> 
> and no one mentioned if they're gonna stop eating pork? so are you? I guess your gonna say all those pigs get to die in a humane way, again trying to get into the head of an animal, your the idiots and anyone with common sense can see that, people who keep pitbulls as pets are f idiots, they could have any god damn breed of dog they want they have to have this one, it's good enough for them that it _ probably_ won't escape and mutilate someone as she sleeps in hjer bed, yea it's worthn it so these selfish bastards can have this damn thing as a pet and they don't go to jail everytime their animal kills / maims someone or something, but this guy goes to jail because he's "cruel" to a ****ing human preditor!


Ok, a properly bred (APBT) to breed standards are not (HUMAN AGGRESSIVE) Period....They do have a high prey drive and are dangerous in the wrong hands to other animals if not properly socialized from a young age and are not for the average dog enthusiast,nevermind some ghetto piece of drug dealing shit,I will agree.But they are not the monster you think they are that you concluded from media based information.The media will only cover a pitbull bite,They only cover shit that people want to hear and what sells.Whens the last time you have heard of a German Sheppard or rottie attack.And don't say that because there are none ,go do a Google search and you will see a number of dogs with more bites per year than APBT.My guess is you do not even know what breeds fall under the category of a pitbull.Did you know there is more than 1 or 2 or even 3,I doubt you knew this.You seem to be some type of paranoid Schizophrenic using extreme rare circumstances, you throw around as if they where common ocurrences.This displays your biased and schizophrenic analogy.One last point. I own APBT because it is the most loyal courageous obedient dog ,unparalleled by any other breed of dog on the planet... My dangerous monster plays with my neighbors puppy's,sleeps next to a pallet in my yard that had kittens in them,he wouldn't leave them.Ya he's a cold blooded killer for sure...I Will admit he is a great protector and I don't mind that.He is a very good judge of character..Could you imagine a cold blooded murderous monster displaying such fine quality's... If you listen to the media to conclude or base an opinion on any topic or subject...lol Your fuked

----------


## jerseyboy

> You people keep saying how 'stupid' my comments are, but not once do you back up what your saying with anything of substance, just saying it's 'dumb'
> 
> these fking useless vicious animals have a clear tendency to escape and hunt down unsuspecting creatures and maim them, you can't stop them from escaping, I just saw something on cnn where they covered a poor woman in blood from head to toe, ptbuls are like no other dog or housepet in their tendency to kil and attackl, i see that picture usanimalprotection-so the f what, let then damn thing finish the fight and it'll die happy, it doesn't understand death and the existence of life it's just a stupid animal, it's put on this earth to kill whatever it sees..jerseyboy puts up some pictures-o sure vthey might be nice to you because you feed them everyday but they get out and at least shred a few kittens or maybe take a kids arm off.
> 
> and no one mentioned if they're gonna stop eating pork? so are you? I guess your gonna say all those pigs get to die in a humane way, again trying to get into the head of an animal, your the idiots and anyone with common sense can see that, people who keep pitbulls as pets are f idiots, they could have any god damn breed of dog they want they have to have this one, it's good enough for them that it _ probably_ won't escape and mutilate someone as she sleeps in hjer bed, yea it's worthn it so these selfish bastards can have this damn thing as a pet and they don't go to jail everytime their animal kills / maims someone or something, but this guy goes to jail because he's "cruel" to a ****ing human preditor!


Human predator. Lol!! That's priceless. Again, idiot. Oh yeah and I don't eat pork, veal or red meat. Sorry about the fish. It's to the point now where there is no reason to even respond to you.

----------


## Chitown Raider

> You people keep saying how 'stupid' my comments are, but not once do you back up what your saying with anything of substance, just saying it's 'dumb'
> 
> these fking useless vicious animals have a clear tendency to escape and hunt down unsuspecting creatures and maim them, you can't stop them from escaping, I just saw something on cnn where they covered a poor woman in blood from head to toe, ptbuls are like no other dog or housepet in their tendency to kil and attackl, i see that picture usanimalprotection-so the f what, let then damn thing finish the fight and it'll die happy, it doesn't understand death and the existence of life it's just a stupid animal, it's put on this earth to kill whatever it sees..jerseyboy puts up some pictures-o sure vthey might be nice to you because you feed them everyday but they get out and at least shred a few kittens or maybe take a kids arm off.
> 
> and no one mentioned if they're gonna stop eating pork? so are you? I guess your gonna say all those pigs get to die in a humane way, again trying to get into the head of an animal, your the idiots and anyone with common sense can see that, people who keep pitbulls as pets are f idiots, they could have any god damn breed of dog they want they have to have this one, it's good enough for them that it _ probably_ won't escape and mutilate someone as she sleeps in hjer bed, yea it's worthn it so these selfish bastards can have this damn thing as a pet and they don't go to jail everytime their animal kills / maims someone or something, but this guy goes to jail because he's "cruel" to a ****ing human preditor!


Now I've heard it all  :Haha:   :Chairshot:

----------


## jon77

> these fking useless vicious animals have a clear tendency to escape and hunt down unsuspecting creatures and maim them, you can't stop them!


A good opening line for Discovery Channel "Africa's Prey, BEWARE!" :Haha:   :Haha:

----------


## eliteforce

It's not the hell of it, it's to watch for sport and bet on..you don't have to eat pork, you could eat fish or chicken or no animals at all because killing animals is 'cruel' ..it's not like it's tribal times and you kill game or you'll starve, you have options. 

This notion that pit-bulls get a bad rep in the media is non-sense, those pit bulls escaped from their pen, broke into a house and vicously attackes a woman while she slept in her bed-cnn did not make this up..other dogs bite too but only a pitbull will do insane things like that..it's just like a tiger or a lion, it's an unpredictable preditor not a pet.

Probably a good use for a pit bull is too keep rabits in check in a crop field as long as it's fenced in and rural, maybe pitbull fighting isn't great but these animals are livestock to be exploited, not playful pets. and this is no endangered specie-it's a bread one. There isn't that much pitbull fighting going on so I see no reason for the govt to enforce dog-fighting laws and I can't believe a man goes to jail for this!
we should be aloowed to do what we want with our livestock on our own land. So what if an nfl milionare had a few dogfights with his friends?

----------


## Kratos

> It's not the hell of it, it's to watch for sport and bet on..you don't have to eat pork, you could eat fish or chicken or no animals at all because killing animals is 'cruel' ..it's not like it's tribal times and you kill game or you'll starve, you have options. 
> 
> This notion that pit-bulls get a bad rep in the media is non-sense, those pit bulls escaped from their pen, broke into a house and vicously attackes a woman while she slept in her bed-cnn did not make this up..other dogs bite too but only a pitbull will do insane things like that..it's just like a tiger or a lion, it's an unpredictable preditor not a pet.
> 
> Probably a good use for a pit bull is too keep rabits in check in a crop field as long as it's fenced in and rural, maybe pitbull fighting isn't great but these animals are livestock to be exploited, not playful pets. and this is no endangered specie-it's a bread one. There isn't that much pitbull fighting going on so I see no reason for the govt to enforce dog-fighting laws and I can't believe a man goes to jail for this!
> we should be aloowed to do what we want with our livestock on our own land. So what if an nfl milionare had a few dogfights with his friends?


Yeah, pit-bulls are slightly f-ed in the head from being bread to fight. The thing is so are Chows, Bull dogs, American bull dogs, boxers, chinese wrinkle dogs, huskies, samoyds, and german shepards. So what say you destroy them all. I think when you get down to it the aggressive pits are the ones who have been abused, neglected or trained to fight. I have known many nice well manored pit bulls. I have a friend with a rescued abused chow, and the thing bites everybody, it even got me twice. There are no bad breeds imo just bad owners, and some dogs come with a greater responsibility on the owner to properly bring up and train the dog. I have a dalmatian and they are known for being aggressive and I have raised it to be the worlds friendliest dog.

----------


## Chitown Raider

> Yeah, pit-bulls are slightly f-ed in the head from being bread to fight. The thing is so are Chows, Bull dogs, American bull dogs, boxers, chinese wrinkle dogs, huskies, samoyds, and german shepards. So what say you destroy them all. I think when you get down to it the aggressive pits are the ones who have been abused, neglected or trained to fight. I have known many nice well manored pit bulls. I have a friend with a rescued abused chow, and the thing bites everybody, it even got me twice. There are no bad breeds imo just bad owners, and some dogs come with a greater responsibility on the owner to properly bring up and train the dog. I have a dalmatian and they are known for being aggressive and I have raised it to be the worlds friendliest dog.


It boils down to the idiot that ruins the dog.

----------


## Chitown Raider

> It's not the hell of it, it's to watch for sport and bet on..you don't have to eat pork, you could eat fish or chicken or no animals at all because killing animals is 'cruel' ..it's not like it's tribal times and you kill game or you'll starve, you have options. 
> 
> This notion that pit-bulls get a bad rep in the media is non-sense, those pit bulls escaped from their pen, broke into a house and vicously attackes a woman while she slept in her bed-cnn did not make this up..other dogs bite too but only a pitbull will do insane things like that..it's just like a tiger or a lion, it's an unpredictable preditor not a pet.
> 
> Probably a good use for a pit bull is too keep rabits in check in a crop field as long as it's fenced in and rural, maybe pitbull fighting isn't great but these animals are livestock to be exploited, not playful pets. and this is no endangered specie-it's a bread one. There isn't that much pitbull fighting going on so I see no reason for the govt to enforce dog-fighting laws and I can't believe a man goes to jail for this!
> we should be aloowed to do what we want with our livestock on our own land. So what if an nfl milionare had a few dogfights with his friends?


First off dogfighting IS NOT A SPORT!!!! Those that believe that are clearly cavemen. A sport is something where I watch for entertainment purposes with friends and family for example the NFL or MLB. I don't go out to see a sporting event where a animal gets it's ear ripped off or face mangled. When the last time a QB or Starting pitcher got shot on site cause they failed to perform properly in a game, give me a break!

----------


## eliteforce

I didn't say destroy any of them, I just said there's nothing wrong with using pit-buls for fighting, you breed them, you butcher them (just like pigs), you hunt deer and other animals, it's all the same sht, their just animals./.

The rest of what you said is not true, there is clearly a difference between pit-buls and every other breed of dog, owning a pitbul is more like having a lyon or a wolf, and worse-they are even more vicous and unpredictable-people who have tigers often play around with them on the grass-it doesn't mean wild animals are safe; only those are wild animals from nature and a pitbul is bread-which makes it just livestock..do what you want with fking livestock, i guess it's not pleasant when a deer gets shot and slowly dies of it's wounds-boohoo- i guess those people should be jailed too.




> Yeah, pit-bulls are slightly f-ed in the head from being bread to fight. The thing is so are Chows, Bull dogs, American bull dogs, boxers, chinese wrinkle dogs, huskies, samoyds, and german shepards. So what say you destroy them all. I think when you get down to it the aggressive pits are the ones who have been abused, neglected or trained to fight. I have known many nice well manored pit bulls. I have a friend with a rescued abused chow, and the thing bites everybody, it even got me twice. There are no bad breeds imo just bad owners, and some dogs come with a greater responsibility on the owner to properly bring up and train the dog. I have a dalmatian and they are known for being aggressive and I have raised it to be the worlds friendliest dog.

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## ftony

> I didn't say destroy any of them, I just said there's nothing wrong with using pit-buls for fighting, you breed them, you butcher them (just like pigs), you hunt deer and other animals, it's all the same sht, their just animals./.
> 
> The rest of what you said is not true, there is clearly a difference between pit-buls and every other breed of dog, owning a pitbul is more like having a lyon or a wolf, and worse-they are even more vicous and unpredictable-people who have tigers often play around with them on the grass-it doesn't mean wild animals are safe; only those are wild animals from nature and a pitbul is bread-which makes it just livestock..do what you want with fking livestock, i guess it's not pleasant when a deer gets shot and slowly dies of it's wounds-boohoo- i guess those people should be jailed too.


Owning children can be dangerous as well,after all do i have to send you murder statistics here in the US...Yes,I think you will find an alarming number of humans killing humans.Take your head out of your ass.Those french fries you ate only need to be tasted once..

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## Kratos

> I didn't say destroy any of them, I just said there's nothing wrong with using pit-buls for fighting, you breed them, you butcher them (just like pigs), you hunt deer and other animals, it's all the same sht, their just animals./.
> 
> The rest of what you said is not true, there is clearly a difference between pit-buls and every other breed of dog, owning a pitbul is more like having a lyon or a wolf, and worse-they are even more vicous and unpredictable-people who have tigers often play around with them on the grass-it doesn't mean wild animals are safe; only those are wild animals from nature and a pitbul is bread-which makes it just livestock..do what you want with fking livestock, i guess it's not pleasant when a deer gets shot and slowly dies of it's wounds-boohoo- i guess those people should be jailed too.


A pit comparable to a lion or wolf, or playing with a tiger in the grass. How many times do I have to tell you when you get those good drugs you need to share them with us. I have a friend who lost a chunk of his ass to a pit while taking a run through a bad neighborhood and ruined his senior year of college track. People in the ghetto think it is cool to have these types of dogs and train them to fight, or just mistreat them. My sisters bull dog that was trained as a fighting dog was rescued from a drug dealers apt, not behind two layers of fence like you think. Dog fighting is part of the reason you see attacks from these breads. I see your point of view, but in my mind dogs arn't livestock, they are companions. Humans have kept dogs as pets for 10k years now, and we owe them more than killing them for blood sport. With the livestock we are killing for meat and use the whole animal and hunters almost always do the same. I feel animals are needed for medical research and as long as there is something to be gained from killing an animal (even a dog) then do it. In dog fighting there is nothing to be gained.

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## CheddaNips

This Thread is so entertaining

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## eliteforce

Blaming humans for the behavior of pitbul-like we all have to take pitbull sensitivity training so we're sure to treat them with the respect and admiration they deserve-for every pitbull attack there is a 'guilty' person behind it, your saying the only pits that are attacking people are the ones that are being trained to fight-untrue, baseless, duh the reason dog-fighters use this breed of dog exclusivly is because it is so vicious, it's clearly a much more dangerous and unpredictable dog than any other breed of dog and as bad as any other wild preditor like a lyon or wolf.

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## jon77

Calling all Pitbulls...... :Mfight:  What the fvck is up bytches!!!

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## ftony

> Blaming humans for the behavior of pitbul-like we all have to take pitbull sensitivity training so we're sure to treat them with the respect and admiration they deserve-for every pitbull attack there is a 'guilty' person behind it, your saying the only pits that are attacking people are the ones that are being trained to fight-untrue, baseless, duh the reason dog-fighters use this breed of dog exclusivly is because it is so vicious, it's clearly a much more dangerous and unpredictable dog than any other breed of dog and as bad as any other wild preditor like a lyon or wolf.


They have locking jaws! Bullets bounce right off them! And other Bunk about Pit Bulls...
MYTH: All Pit Bulls are mean and vicious. 

It is reported on temperament tests conducted by the American Temperament Test Society that Pit Bulls had a passing rate of 82% or better -- compared to only 77% of the general dog population. 

These temperament tests consist of putting a dog through a series of unexpected situations, some involving strangers. 

Any signs of unprovoked aggression or panic in these situations result in failure of the test. The achievement of Pit Bulls in this study disproves that they are inherently aggressive to people. (Please visit ATTS.org) 
MYTH: A Pit Bull that shows aggression towards an animal will go for people next. 

"Many working breeds have antipathy towards other animals - coonhounds go mad at the sight of a raccoon, foxhounds will not hesitate to tear a dog-like fox to shreds, greyhounds live to chase and maul rabbits and even dog-like coyotes. Even the ever-friendly beagle will slaughter a rabbit, given the chance. 

And yet the greyhound, coon and foxhound and beagle are among the friendliest of breeds towards humans. And it is the same with the pit bulldog. His work through the years has been control of other animals - never humans. A correct pit bull is more often than not submissive toward all humans, and adores children. 

A pit bull that snarls, lunges or growls at non-threatening humans is NOT typical of the breed." (Written by Diane Jessup)
Pit bulls that do show aggressive behavior towards humans are not typical of the breed and should be humanely euthanized.
MYTH: If a Pit Bull was never trained to fight, it will be safe with other dogs. 

Pit Bulls can live peacefully with other dogs and animals. However, the Pit Bull has historically been bred to take down large animals. Early and continual socialization can help a Pit Bull be more animal friendly. Genetics, however, play an important role in how the dog will respond to other dogs and animals. 

A Pit Bull that will fight another dog if unattended is a normal Pit Bull. Even if a Pit Bull does not start the fight, it has the potential to seriously injure or kill a dog once in the fight. 

The Pit Bull has been bred to not back down and withstand pain until the goal is met. This quality does not carry true in all Pit Bulls, but it is safe to assume it is a potential in any Pit Bull in order to avoid unnecessary problems. 
Pit Bulls have a late maturity, and a Pit Bull that was dog friendly at 7 months old may suddenly show signs of intolerance of unfamiliar dogs around two years old. Spaying and neutering the dog may help to prevent "turning on" the genetic urge to fight another dog. 

All dog fights are preventable, however. Socialize a Pit Bull slowly with new dogs, and never let them play unattended. Remove items such as toys and food bowls to avoid stress.
Pit Bulls can live happily with other pets; if not left unattended. Even the "best of friends" can fight, and the outcome may be tragic. This can be true for dogs that have been together for years. Often, after the first serious fight, relations between the dogs are never the same.
Keeping that first fight from happening is a great way to ensure peaceful relations for the long run. If there is a multiple-dog household, it is important to separate the dogs when there is no one home. 

Many people use crates for short times, put dogs into separate rooms, use kennels, or have outdoor areas set up for separation that are safe and secure. Pit Bulls can get along wonderfully with animals like cats, rabbits, and ferrets, but for safety's sake, never leave them alone together.
MYTH: American Pit Bull Terriers have 1600 P.S.I. in jaw pressure 

Dr. Lehr Brisbin of the University of Georgia states, "To the best of our knowledge, there are no published scientific studies that would allow any meaningful comparison to be made of the biting power of various breeds of dogs. 

There are, moreover, compelling technical reasons why such data describing biting power in terms of "pounds per square inch" can never be collected in a meaningful way. All figures describing biting power in such terms can be traced to either unfounded rumor or, in some cases, to newspaper articles with no foundation in factual data." 
MYTH: American Pit Bull Terriers lock their jaws. 

Dr. Brisbin: "The few studies which have been conducted of the structure of the skulls, mandibles and teeth of pit bulls show that, in proportion to their size, their jaw structure and thus its inferred functional morphology, is no different than that of any breed of dog. 

There is absolutely no evidence for the existence of any kind of "locking mechanism" unique to the structure of the jaw and/or teeth of the American Pit Bull Terrier. 
MYTH: Treadmills are only used to get dogs ready to fight. 

Many responsible owners utilize treadmills to help exercise their dogs. This is useful in places where weather prevents outdoor exercise, or in situations where off-leash exercise in not an option. 

The treadmill is used by people that show their Pit Bulls, and do sporting activities like weight pull and agility to help keep their dogs in shape. Because Pit Bulls are athletic animals, responsibly using a treadmill can help them be healthier and happier. 
MYTH: Pit Bulls brains swell/never stop growing. 

This rumor started with the Doberman, and has since been said about game-bred dogs in general. The concept of an animal's brain swelling or growing too large and somehow causing the animal to "go crazy" is not based in truth in any way. 

Their brains grow at the same rate as any other dog, and the only time that a Pit Bull's brain is going to swell is if it receives a serious injury. If an animal's brain were to grow too big for its head, the animal would die. 
MYTH: It is unsafe to get a Pit Bull from a rescue or shelter because their past/genetics are unknown. 

Under the best of circumstances, it is great to know the history of a dog, the history and health of its parents, and what that line of dogs were bred for. 

If a person is buying a Pit Bull from a breeder, this information should be of top importance. However, in most shelter/rescue cases this information is not available. The Pit Bull at the shelter will often be a wonderful pet. It is important to know the general behavior of the dog. 

Has it shown any aggression towards humans? Most Pit Bull rescues will not accept or adopt out Pit Bulls with any level of aggression or excessive shyness towards humans. How does this dog do with other dogs? Has it shown any undesirable behavior or habits? 

It is suggested that a potential adopter of a Pit Bull bring the whole family to meet the dog. Often, shelters and rescues will allow you to take the dog for a home visit to see how they respond to the new surroundings. Most adoptions of a Pit Bull are amazing successes, and the adopter is not only receiving a pet, but they are also saving a life! 
MYTH: It is best to get a puppy so that you can make it behave how you want it to. 

Many people feel if they get a Pit Bull as a puppy they can train it to not be aggressive towards other dogs and increase the likelihood that the dog will have no undesirable behavior qualities. 

Puppies can be a lot of fun and very rewarding, but with a new puppy there is no way of knowing how that dog will act as an adult. 

One benefit of adopting a young adult or full grown Pit Bull is the ability to avoid the uncomfortable puppy behavior stage. This includes constant destructive chewing, house breaking, excessive and uncontrollable energy, teething and puppy biting, possible whining, howling, and barking for attention at night, and the time and effort it takes to begin teaching general manners and obedience. 
Another benefit is that an adopter can know how an adult Pit Bull will do with other dogs, cats, children, car rides, and other certain situations. Bringing a puppy up in the most loving and social environment can only alter its predetermined genetic urges so much. 

In other words, having a dog since puppyhood does not necessarily mean it will have all of the qualities desired in a pet. It may end up having some traits that are undesirable. An adult Pit Bull, however, will have more of an established personality, and an adopter can know what to expect with the dog.

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## ftony

> Blaming humans for the behavior of pitbul-like we all have to take pitbull sensitivity training so we're sure to treat them with the respect and admiration they deserve-for every pitbull attack there is a 'guilty' person behind it, your saying the only pits that are attacking people are the ones that are being trained to fight-untrue, baseless, duh the reason dog-fighters use this breed of dog exclusivly is because it is so vicious, it's clearly a much more dangerous and unpredictable dog than any other breed of dog and as bad as any other wild preditor like a lyon or wolf.


Killers in action,Waiting to make a move:Please Children be Warned!!!! http://www.freewebs.com/crazy8pitbull/

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## jerseyboy

> Killers in action,Waiting to make a move:Please Children be Warned!!!! http://www.freewebs.com/crazy8pitbull/


Geezus that's horrible!!

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## jerseyboy

The media says Pitbulls are dangerous killers. It must be true because the media never exaggerates, distorts facts or blatantly fabricates stories to boost ratings.

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## ftony

The real problem in pitbull attacks are dogs that have been bred by backyard breeders.The fact is they were once bred strictly to be "GAME"against other dogs.(NOT TO BE HUMAN AGGRESSIVE)The problem arises when you get some stupid inexperienced dog breeders that breed anything they have from there gene pool.That could be a dog that would be put down by a responsible credible breeder because the dog is human agressive.Now the dog has fighting traits that far surpass the average dog,and the tendency to be unstable and human aggressive from the poor selection of his breeder.Multiply that by some punk that wants a pitbull to be a hard ass.He may get a dog that resembles a APBT but is far from a good example of the breed.He then does not train the dog or socialize the dog,he actually agitates the dog to excite him...bam! And you have headlines...Its Really that simple...Its So important to buy a dog from true lines,if you have had the privilege of owning one or see one,you know exactly what I'm saying....This guy that has only quoted what he knows from the media is brainwashed and stubborn to boot.He is an enemy of kind hearted quality bred family members around the world..

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## jerseyboy

Actually Bulldogs were bred as farm dogs before they were ever used for fighting and even once they came over to America and started breeding the original American Pitbull Terrier they were still used on the farm and kept as family pets. I don't recall Pete ever attacking any of the children on the show The Little Rascals and ripping off limbs. I guess maybe they edited the episode when Petey clamped onto Spankey's arm.

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## ftony

> Actually Bulldogs were bred as farm dogs before they were ever used for fighting and even once they came over to America and started breeding the original American Pitbull Terrier they were still used on the farm and kept as family pets. I don't recall Pete ever attacking any of the children on the show The Little Rascals and ripping off limbs. I guess maybe they edited the episode when Petey clamped onto Spankey's arm.


LOL,ya a simplified way of putting it but awsome just the same.. :LOL:

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## ftony

> Actually Bulldogs were bred as farm dogs before they were ever used for fighting and even once they came over to America and started breeding the original American Pitbull Terrier they were still used on the farm and kept as family pets. I don't recall Pete ever attacking any of the children on the show The Little Rascals and ripping off limbs. I guess maybe they edited the episode when Petey clamped onto Spankey's arm.


If this thread is going by the time I can make a video clip,I will show you my pups ability to execute commands strictly by sign language...Yep Don't have to say a word....cost Me some money but it was well worth it..

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## eliteforce

i'm sure its a cute video, but none of that means anything-posting pictures of little kids rolling around in the grass with a pitbul or how sweet a pitbul _can_ be..like I said someone who owns a pet lyon can also play around with it in the grass..none of this changes the fact that this breed of dog is much more prone to attacking other people (not it's owners which it knows) and animals than every other dog, they are extremly preditorial and they have a tendency to break out of their confinement and go on a hunt..much more that any other dog..they're generally dangerous animals.

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## ftony

> i'm sure its a cute video, but none of that means anything-posting pictures of little kids rolling around in the grass with a pitbul or how sweet a pitbul _can_ be..like I said someone who owns a pet lyon can also play around with it in the grass..none of this changes the fact that this breed of dog is much more prone to attacking other people (not it's owners which it knows) and animals than every other dog, they are extremly preditorial and they have a tendency to break out of their confinement and go on a hunt..much more that any other dog..they're generally dangerous animals.


I am sorry,but you are wrong.Pitbulls are not inherently human aggressive.It has never been bred for such purposes,the ADBA has strict temperament guidelines that are clearly written in there books.What you see and or heard of happening is the "drug dealing inner city bloom" of backyard breeding poor quality and bad examples of the breed.Yes what they are breeding are dangerous but they are not a good representative of the breed,nor have they followed breed temperament guidlines.Its like this.Compare an ugl of today,to a pharmaceutical company.Ask the chemist that works for the pharmacy what he thinks of ugl and how they brew?How is there quality compared to the pharmacy.Maybe you can understand that analogy better,because it is the same thing one makes by highest standards,the other makes to get by and lets quality suffer we all have heard those horror stories...

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## jon77

This thread now officially sucks. The topic has changed. How long are we going to continue this? I've learned so much reading all this bs, that I'm considering raising pitbulls, and "train" them to bite peeps like elite.

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## BgMc31

Back on topic...

I have a question for everyone. Since Mike Vick is officially a piece of shit for fighting and killing pitbulls (poor defenseless animals). Isn't he no different than a trophy hunter. These guys lure defenseless, unsuspecting animals into open areas and kill them. The vast majority don't eat the kill, and the vast majority of these animals are harmless. Also, people don't realize that many racing dogs are killed for underperforming, and so are some race horses. But we don't hear about those. Rodeo roping calfs are slaughtered after the cruel treatment they endure from calf roping after the injuries incurred to the hips and joints of the calfs.

Where does start/end?

I'm not even going to go into it with the guy who says that Mike Vick sucked (5 time pro bowler, 60% winning percentage, yeah, he's horrible!!). :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## RA

I hunt and Ive always hated trophy hunters...unless your going to eat it you have no business killing it.

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## ftony

> Back on topic...
> 
> I have a question for everyone. Since Mike Vick is officially a piece of shit for fighting and killing pitbulls (poor defenseless animals). Isn't he no different than a trophy hunter. These guys lure defenseless, unsuspecting animals into open areas and kill them. The vast majority don't eat the kill, and the vast majority of these animals are harmless. Also, people don't realize that many racing dogs are killed for underperforming, and so are some race horses. But we don't hear about those. Rodeo roping calfs are slaughtered after the cruel treatment they endure from calf roping after the injuries incurred to the hips and joints of the calfs.
> 
> Where does start/end?
> 
> I'm not even going to go into it with the guy who says that Mike Vick sucked (5 time pro bowler, 60% winning percentage, yeah, he's horrible!!).


I have never heard of a trophy hunter drown game or electrocute game.Dogs that race and injured are humanly euthenized.What mike vick did was get off on killing his pets that allowed him to do so because he was feeding them...Dont Know your morals but mine says he's a piece of shit..

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## Giants11

> I have never heard of a trophy hunter drown game or electrocute game.Dogs that race and injured are humanly euthenized.What mike vick did was get off on killing his pets that allowed him to do so because he was feeding them...Dont Know your morals but mine says he's a piece of shit..


I know what BgMc is saying and he does have a point to some extent. 

Dog fighting is obviously very much so frowned upon, case in point this whole Vick saga. However there are certainly many other incidents of animal cruelty out there that go either unnoticed or quite frankly people don't give a shit.

I mean hell, I posted a Washington Post article not too long ago that stated people that worked in slaughter houses were aware that some Cows were skinned alive, killed inhumanely etc....However since those animals ultimately become our food, no one seems to care how they are treated when they are alive.

Is that hypocritical, I think so. But dogs have a special place in American society while other animals are most certainly not defended with the same fierceness.

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## kfrost06

I never understood why a mink coat was considered cruel but a leather coat is o.k.? I think if the animal is "cute" it's treated differently.

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## Giants11

> I never understood why a mink coat was considered cruel but a leather coat is o.k.? I think if the animal is "cute" it's treated differently.



Yeah I mean you know somewhere down in Atlanta some woman is getting ready to execute Michael Vick, but when the winter rolls around she'll be wearing her Mink Coat and find nothing wrong with that.

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## ftony

> I know what BgMc is saying and he does have a point to some extent. 
> 
> Dog fighting is obviously very much so frowned upon, case in point this whole Vick saga. However there are certainly many other incidents of animal cruelty out there that go either unnoticed or quite frankly people don't give a shit.
> 
> I mean hell, I posted a Washington Post article not too long ago that stated people that worked in slaughter houses were aware that some Cows were skinned alive, killed inhumanely etc....However since those animals ultimately become our food, no one seems to care how they are treated when they are alive.
> 
> Is that hypocritical, I think so. But dogs have a special place in American society while other animals are most certainly not defended with the same fierceness.


Dog fighting is only half of this...The Man tortured and killed his own Animals....He Hanged them, he drowned them ,electrocuted them, shot them,he obviously got off on killing them! People defending him don't seem to realize the magnitude of ruthlessness here ...This Goes way beyond just dog fighting.Hes a sick fuk that needs to be punished severly.If he just fought his dogs.Nutured the under achievers and gave them away not to be bred back to his lines, ok.If he even humanly euthanized the animals.I would say OK he's fuked up but people do fuked up things and that would be that.What he did goes way beyond that I'm sorry, I hope he gets 5 years, he deserves it...He Displayed all the scumbag quality's of a true lowlife piece of shit, and then some.Im Sure he made his family really proud of him...Im not going to argue all day about why breeding fighting and torturing ones animals is inhumane,If I need to explain to anyone why its immoral,Hey well something went horribly wrong in your upbringing,and a talk on a forum isn't going to cut it.More like 300hours in a psychiatrist office and some medication might be more appropriate.I can't wait for him to stand before the judge....bigmac Can defend him all he wants its a discredit to him personally for all who has common decency to see..Im not coming down on you giant11 at all I know your just making a point about animal cruelty and how some pick and choose what is. I agree with you...

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## jerseyboy

I guess if I owned a cow as a pet I would be just as sensitive about how they slaughter them. The fact is it does bother me how cattle and chickens are slaughtered but they are bred and raised as a food source. I've given up red meat not really because of where it came from, it just doesn't appeal to me anymore. As for hunting, no I don't like it either. I don't even consider it hunting if your hiding up in a tree waiting for a deer to walk by so you can put a hole in it with a high powered r***e. That's more like ambushing. Sneaking around in the woods tracking your prey is a bit more sporting but unless it's to control over population the only purpose is for entertainment. No offense, it's just my opinion and I'm not going to get into a big debate about game hunting. It's still not as brutal as what these poor dogs went through for someones cheap amusement. Anyone that owns or knows a Pit can tell you what loving animals and loyal companions they can be. For someone to pick one up and slam it to the ground until it's dead or stick it in water and electrocute it isn't just sick it's extremely disturbing. If an individual can display such brutality on an animal what are they capable of doing to a human being?

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## Serotonin

Said on CNN.com that he was suspended from the NFL indefinitely! I hope they don't stray from that decision. That scum should be banned from any professional sport for life.

Hopefully this stigma tears him apart enough that he'll even squander the remains of his money and then not be able to make more. Hell, maybe then he'll even hang himself like he did those dogs. 

I'd be happy.

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## jerseyboy

> Dog fighting is only half of this...The Man tortured and killed his own Animals....He Hanged them, he drowned them ,electrocuted them, shot them,he obviously got off on killing them! People defending him don't seem to realize the magnitude of ruthlessness here ...This Goes way beyond just dog fighting.Hes a sick fuk that needs to be punished severly.If he just fought his dogs.Nutured the under achievers and gave them away not to be bred back to his lines, ok.If he even humanly euthanized the animals.I would say OK he's fuked up but people do fuked up things and that would be that.What he did goes way beyond that I'm sorry, I hope he gets 5 years, he deserves it...He Displayed all the scumbag quality's of a true lowlife piece of shit, and then some.Im Sure he made his family really proud of him...Im not going to argue all day about why breeding fighting and torturing ones animals is inhumane,If I need to explain to anyone why its immoral,Hey well something went horribly wrong in your upbringing,and a talk on a forum isn't going to cut it.More like 300hours in a psychiatrist office and some medication might be more appropriate.I can't wait for him to stand before the judge....bigmac Can defend him all he wants its a discredit to him personally for all who has common decency to see..Im not coming down on you giant11 at all I know your just making a point about animal cruelty and how some pick and choose what is. I agree with you...


Amen. Couldn't have said it better myself.

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## eliteforce

First of all I think this business of eating what you kill and that makes it somehow morally superior is non-sense, you don't need to eat a dear or quail or whatever you shot, it's not a matter of survival, you didn't need to kill it because your not a commanche living in a tribe and this isn't 5000bc and your gonna kill a buffalo, use it's coat to stay warm, eat it's meat and use it's bones to make your TP-to survive..killing animals is killing animals, you start splitting hairs with this and where does it end? their bread animals or game on a place where hunting is allowed and regulated so not too many of the deer etc. are killed off, 
I'm not that insensitive, I don't hunt myself or dogfight, but this is an issue of freedom and common sense..


Also all this stuff about Vick torturing animals is not proven, he hasn't been tried yet, if the prosecutor alleged this, he doesn't know, he wasn't there to see exactly what was done to the animals when they were killed, prosecutors pretty much always overstate their case to the media..








> Dog fighting is only half of this...The Man tortured and killed his own Animals....He Hanged them, he drowned them ,electrocuted them, shot them,he obviously got off on killing them! People defending him don't seem to realize the magnitude of ruthlessness here ...This Goes way beyond just dog fighting.Hes a sick fuk that needs to be punished severly.If he just fought his dogs.Nutured the under achievers and gave them away not to be bred back to his lines, ok.If he even humanly euthanized the animals.I would say OK he's fuked up but people do fuked up things and that would be that.What he did goes way beyond that I'm sorry, I hope he gets 5 years, he deserves it...He Displayed all the scumbag quality's of a true lowlife piece of shit, and then some.Im Sure he made his family really proud of him...Im not going to argue all day about why breeding fighting and torturing ones animals is inhumane,If I need to explain to anyone why its immoral,Hey well something went horribly wrong in your upbringing,and a talk on a forum isn't going to cut it.More like 300hours in a psychiatrist office and some medication might be more appropriate.I can't wait for him to stand before the judge....bigmac Can defend him all he wants its a discredit to him personally for all who has common decency to see..Im not coming down on you giant11 at all I know your just making a point about animal cruelty and how some pick and choose what is. I agree with you...


>>>I hunt and Ive always hated trophy hunters...unless your going to eat it you have no business killing it.

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## BgMc31

> Dog fighting is only half of this...The Man tortured and killed his own Animals....He Hanged them, he drowned them ,electrocuted them, shot them,he obviously got off on killing them! People defending him don't seem to realize the magnitude of ruthlessness here ...This Goes way beyond just dog fighting.Hes a sick fuk that needs to be punished severly.If he just fought his dogs.Nutured the under achievers and gave them away not to be bred back to his lines, ok.If he even humanly euthanized the animals.I would say OK he's fuked up but people do fuked up things and that would be that.What he did goes way beyond that I'm sorry, I hope he gets 5 years, he deserves it...He Displayed all the scumbag quality's of a true lowlife piece of shit, and then some.Im Sure he made his family really proud of him...Im not going to argue all day about why breeding fighting and torturing ones animals is inhumane,If I need to explain to anyone why its immoral,Hey well something went horribly wrong in your upbringing,and a talk on a forum isn't going to cut it.More like 300hours in a psychiatrist office and some medication might be more appropriate.I can't wait for him to stand before the judge....bigmac Can defend him all he wants its a discredit to him personally for all who has common decency to see..Im not coming down on you giant11 at all I know your just making a point about animal cruelty and how some pick and choose what is. I agree with you...


First I'm not defending Mike Vicks actions. Check my previous posts. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of many on this board and elsewhere. I have a rescued American Bulldog that was used for fighting and he is completely docile around my kids, wife, and our female dogs. Your's and other's anger is misguided in my opinion. No where has it been proven that Mike Vick 'got off' on killing these animals. No where is it mentioned that he 'got off' on torturing this animals. He used similar methods used in slaughter houses (electrocution, shootings, etc.) To Vick and many in the south, Pitbulls and other dogs (particularly hunting dogs) are service animals, not pets. And not all racing horses and racing dogs are put down humanely. Check many websites of rescued sporting animals and you will see how 'ethically' some are treated. All I'm saying is this Mike Vick case has got so many people in such an uproar that its ridiculous. Again, Leonard Little killed a woman in a DUI accident, he got an 8 month suspension and 8 months in jail. There are many worse criminals in the country that get less sentences and create less uproar than Mike Vick. This whole thing is ridiculous. I once heard a saying, "America loves a hero, but Americans love to see heroes fall even more".

As far as his suspension is concerned, I think it well justified, but a lifetime ban is ridiculous as well. His suspension is based not on dog fighting but on gambling. That's just bullshit! I see professional football players every weekend here in Vegas (hell I hang out with many of them) gambling constantly. Anyway, how many actors, politicians, and athletes have gotten in trouble and gotten chances to redeem themselves. Look at Jason Giambi, Robert Downey, Ted Kennedy, George Bush, Bill Clinton, etc. If Mike Vick comes out of prison (which I think he deserves because he did break the law), vows to get involved against the cruelty of animals and gives as much money to this cause as he's done for his Mike Vick foundation (everybody seems to forget what Vick has done for HUMANS with his foundation, and yes he is personally involved), then he deserves the same chance at redemption as the rest of us.

----------


## jerseyboy

Here we go again. What the **** is wrong with these people?!!

PHOENIX - 
Sheriff's deputies raided the home of rapper DMX on Friday, seizing several pit bulls and finding the remains of three other dogs but making no arrests.

The Maricopa County Sheriff's Office received a tip more than a week ago about dogs being kept in inhumane conditions at the Phoenix-area home, said Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

Detectives visited the home and then called one of the rapper's lawyers and told him that the conditions for the animals at the property needed to be improved or deputies would take action, Arpaio said. The dogs were not being fed or given water.

Authorities returned to the home Friday.

The 36-year-old musician and actor, whose real name is Earl Simmons, was not at home during the raid.

Simmons' lawyer, Murray Richman, said Simmons hasn't been in Arizona for at least two months and was "extremely disturbed" to hear the animals weren't being cared for properly.

"We had a caretaker that wasn't taking care, that's what happened," Richman said. "He loves dogs _ he loves these animals. Those dogs are practically his family."

Richman said he hadn't been notified of problems at the property until he learned of the raid Friday. Sheriff's officials said they had contacted another lawyer who works for DMX.

Arpaio said the deputies who served a search warrant at the home Friday seized 12 pit bulls tied up on the property and took them to an old jail that has been converted into an animal shelter.

Deputies found the buried dogs when they dug up the back yard. One had apparently been burned and the cause of death on the others was unknown because the bodies were decomposing.

Deputies also found a variety of firearms, Arpaio said. Authorities sought additional warrants so they could check the guns to determine if they were legal.

DMX's albums include "It's Dark and Hell Is Hot" and "Flesh of My Flesh, Blood of My Blood" and "Year of the Dog ... Again."

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## scriptfactory

I think it's absolutely hilarious how everyone in this thread eats animals that are treated just as bad as these fighting dogs LEGALLY. If you hate cruel treatment of animals then become a vegetarian. If this story was about Michael Vick being cruel to a chicken or a cow no one would give a damn...

What Vick did was wrong, but why should he be punished to exorbitantly for something when worse things are done on ranches around the US on a daily basis? An animal is an animal. A pitbull is not worth more than a cow or a pig just because it's a pet. Give him the normal punishment for these actions, nothing more, nothing less.

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## scriptfactory

> First I'm not defending Mike Vicks actions. Check my previous posts. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of many on this board and elsewhere. I have a rescued American Bulldog that was used for fighting and he is completely docile around my kids, wife, and our female dogs. Your's and other's anger is misguided in my opinion. No where has it been proven that Mike Vick 'got off' on killing these animals. No where is it mentioned that he 'got off' on torturing this animals. He used similar methods used in slaughter houses (electrocution, shootings, etc.) To Vick and many in the south, Pitbulls and other dogs (particularly hunting dogs) are service animals, not pets. And not all racing horses and racing dogs are put down humanely. Check many websites of rescued sporting animals and you will see how 'ethically' some are treated. All I'm saying is this Mike Vick case has got so many people in such an uproar that its ridiculous. Again, Leonard Little killed a woman in a DUI accident, he got an 8 month suspension and 8 months in jail. There are many worse criminals in the country that get less sentences and create less uproar than Mike Vick. This whole thing is ridiculous. I once heard a saying, "America loves a hero, but Americans love to see heroes fall even more".
> 
> As far as his suspension is concerned, I think it well justified, but a lifetime ban is ridiculous as well. His suspension is based not on dog fighting but on gambling. That's just bullshit! I see professional football players every weekend here in Vegas (hell I hang out with many of them) gambling constantly. Anyway, how many actors, politicians, and athletes have gotten in trouble and gotten chances to redeem themselves. Look at Jason Giambi, Robert Downey, Ted Kennedy, George Bush, Bill Clinton, etc. If Mike Vick comes out of prison (which I think he deserves because he did break the law), vows to get involved against the cruelty of animals and gives as much money to this cause as he's done for his Mike Vick foundation (everybody seems to forget what Vick has done for HUMANS with his foundation, and yes he is personally involved), then he deserves the same chance at redemption as the rest of us.


For sure. I hope some of you read this post and actually think about what was written.

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## RA

Of course cows dont bite each other to death before you eat them :Wink/Grin:  

Vicks going to jail=a good thing






> I think it's absolutely hilarious how everyone in this thread eats animals that are treated just as bad as these fighting dogs LEGALLY. If you hate cruel treatment of animals then become a vegetarian. If this story was about Michael Vick being cruel to a chicken or a cow no one would give a damn...
> 
> What Vick did was wrong, but why should he be punished to exorbitantly for something when worse things are done on ranches around the US on a daily basis? An animal is an animal. A pitbull is not worth more than a cow or a pig just because it's a pet. Give him the normal punishment for these actions, nothing more, nothing less.

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## scriptfactory

> Of course cows dont bite each other to death before you eat them


True... but I don't eat dogs so I don't get the analogy.  :LOL:

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## ftony

> I think it's absolutely hilarious how everyone in this thread eats animals that are treated just as bad as these fighting dogs LEGALLY. If you hate cruel treatment of animals then become a vegetarian. If this story was about Michael Vick being cruel to a chicken or a cow no one would give a damn...
> 
> What Vick did was wrong, but why should he be punished to exorbitantly for something when worse things are done on ranches around the US on a daily basis? An animal is an animal. A pitbull is not worth more than a cow or a pig just because it's a pet. Give him the normal punishment for these actions, nothing more, nothing less.


This post may have relevance in germany.But here in the U.S we keep our canine companions close to our family's,not cows or pigs (Livestock)Germany has concentration like camps for confiscated pitbulls ..Dont they???I would think you may be hardend to this type of treatment,Some people here in the US don't know this,I do. Your post would be coming from left field in an informed Americans eyes..I don't think it would be appropriate to drown or electrocute to death Livestock either...Anyway you flip this mike vick coin,you can't escape the intentional brutality and torture for his own amusment.They didn't fry up the dogs and eat them,because that's barbecuing American culture,they discarded them and drank some more 40s.heres a sample of the german position on almost any dog larger than 20kg"You cannot import into Germany, American Pitbull Terriers, the Staffordshire bull terrier or the Am Staff . This is a Federal law. In addition there is likely to be introduced a law restricting all dogs over 40cm or 20kg in weight to being on a lead. Any signs of aggression and they wil be further restricted to being muzzled.

The atmoshphere in Germany for many dog owners is abusive and threatening. Dogs have been attacked and owners are being verbaly abused. The German national tourist office advise you to visit with dogs only if you are prepared to put up with some difficulties. In addition some areas in Germany list up to 42 breeds with restrictions"

Perhaps this little bit of info will enlighten some on where your opinion is manifested..

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## scriptfactory

> This post may have relevance in germany.But here in the U.S we keep our canine companions close to our family's,not cows or pigs (Livestock)Germany has concentration like camps for confiscated pitbulls ..Dont they???I would think you may be hardend to this type of treatment,Some people here in the US don't know this,I do. Your post would be coming from left field in an informed Americans eyes..I don't think it would be appropriate to drown or electrocute to death Livestock either...Anyway you flip this mike vick coin,you can't escape the intentional brutality and torture for his own amusment.*They didn't fry up the dogs and eat them,because that's barbecuing American culture,they discarded them and drank some more 40s.*heres a sample of the german position on almost any dog larger than 20kg"You cannot import into Germany, American Pitbull Terriers, the Staffordshire bull terrier or the Am Staff . This is a Federal law. In addition there is likely to be introduced a law restricting all dogs over 40cm or 20kg in weight to being on a lead. Any signs of aggression and they wil be further restricted to being muzzled.
> 
> The atmoshphere in Germany for many dog owners is abusive and threatening. Dogs have been attacked and owners are being verbaly abused. The German national tourist office advise you to visit with dogs only if you are prepared to put up with some difficulties. In addition some areas in Germany list up to 42 breeds with restrictions"
> 
> Perhaps this little bit of info will enlighten some on where your opinion is manifested..


So if Mike Vick was eating the dogs it would be cool?

P.S.: I'm an American, man. Born in San Diego, CA.  :LOL:

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## ftony

> So if Mike Vick was eating the dogs it would be cool?
> 
> P.S.: I'm an American, man. Born in San Diego, CA.


LOL.OK,Your Location says germany.How am I supposed to know?No it wouldn't be cool,but it would make the killings for a purpose(weird but a constructive purpose) In my opinion he just killed them because he gets off on killing .IMO Any sensible moral human being would surmise his ruthless behavior was uncalled for.Hell Richard Stratton the godfather of dog fighting never mentioned any such treatment to the beloved fighting dog as he put it.I doubt very highly mike vick would plead guilty if he was not in fact guilty of all accusations made.Some are playing the oh we don't know he enjoyed the killing card.But fact is the prosecution has overwhelming evidence and eyewitness testimony to convict him.The evidence so strong his money isn't worth spit.So keep that card in your pocket,vick already folded...

----------


## ftony

> First I'm not defending Mike Vicks actions. Check my previous posts. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of many on this board and elsewhere. I have a rescued American Bulldog that was used for fighting and he is completely docile around my kids, wife, and our female dogs. Your's and other's anger is misguided in my opinion. No where has it been proven that Mike Vick 'got off' on killing these animals. No where is it mentioned that he 'got off' on torturing this animals. He used similar methods used in slaughter houses (electrocution, shootings, etc.) To Vick and many in the south, Pitbulls and other dogs (particularly hunting dogs) are service animals, not pets. And not all racing horses and racing dogs are put down humanely. Check many websites of rescued sporting animals and you will see how 'ethically' some are treated. All I'm saying is this Mike Vick case has got so many people in such an uproar that its ridiculous. Again, Leonard Little killed a woman in a DUI accident, he got an 8 month suspension and 8 months in jail. There are many worse criminals in the country that get less sentences and create less uproar than Mike Vick. This whole thing is ridiculous. I once heard a saying, "America loves a hero, but Americans love to see heroes fall even more".
> 
> As far as his suspension is concerned, I think it well justified, but a lifetime ban is ridiculous as well. His suspension is based not on dog fighting but on gambling. That's just bullshit! I see professional football players every weekend here in Vegas (hell I hang out with many of them) gambling constantly. Anyway, how many actors, politicians, and athletes have gotten in trouble and gotten chances to redeem themselves. Look at Jason Giambi, Robert Downey, Ted Kennedy, George Bush, Bill Clinton, etc. If Mike Vick comes out of prison (which I think he deserves because he did break the law), vows to get involved against the cruelty of animals and gives as much money to this cause as he's done for his Mike Vick foundation (everybody seems to forget what Vick has done for HUMANS with his foundation, and yes he is personally involved), then he deserves the same chance at redemption as the rest of us.


That is awesome you rescued your dog.Im sure he's a happy guy for that.As for whether vick got off on killing.Well the evidence of selective and various methods of killing would lead one to believe otherwise.As for the way people think of dogs in the south is no excuse for his actions and inhuman treatment of another living creature.A bitter enemy would deserve a more honorable way of death.As for these racing dogs and horses that are supposedly hung or electrocuted,I'm sorry I have never heard of such a thing.As far as the Richard little case,there's a huge difference there.Unless Richard got in his car,did not like the way a person crossed in front of him so he guns it and runs them down.Well I suppose you would of had a point.What vick did was,intentionally breed fight and kill in a bizarre cruel premeditated manner that is unacceptable.As far as the indefinite suspension,hey if you need to finagle a little paper work pencil up a gambling charge as well,so be it.Im sure the dog he held under water thought his murder was unfair as well.As for a second chance,I don't know I'm to dam pissed off right now to think about what mike vick deserves,right now alls he deserves is three meals and a bunk...

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## shark333

vick is dumber than a box of rocks. you can take the boy out of the hood but you cant take da hood out of the boy. poor guy... good day!

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## DSM4Life

They just finished the jury selection phase of the Michael Vick case

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## jerseyboy

Maybe there is a god after all. This son-of-a-bitch is getting almost everything he deserves. When he gets a good stomping in prison I'll be happy. I love the part where it says, "Nike severed its ties with him Friday, Reebok already has stopped selling his jersey and is accepting refunds for it. Upper Deck removed his card from its 2007 collection." 

RICHMOND, Va. - Michael Vick can only hope he will get more leniency from the judge than he did from the NFL.

Roger Goodell's letter informing the Atlanta Falcons quarterback of his suspension reads almost like a goodbye, the NFL commissioner doing nothing to hide his disgust and his disdain.

A similar reaction by U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson, who will be presented with Vick's plea agreement on Monday, could mean years in prison.

In court papers, Vick admitted bankrolling "Bad Newz Kennels" and participating in the killing of dogs in the dogfighting operation. But he tried to deflect much of his culpability in the grisly enterprise onto his friends.

That didn't deter Goodell, who was quick to hold Vick responsible, suspending him indefinitely and without pay Friday from the job that made him a millionaire and a superstar. The decision, on the brink of the season opener, left the Falcons without their headline player.

Goodell made it forcefully clear Vick wasn't helping himself by trying to pawn off blame on his three co-defendants in the case.

"You are now justifiably facing consequences for the decisions you made and the conduct in which you engaged. Your career, freedom and public standing are now in the most serious jeopardy," Goodell wrote.

The portrait of Vick as a person who enjoyed the heinous blood sport has fueled protests by animal-rights activists and destroyed his image, prompting sponsors to dump him.

After initially denying his involvement, the 27-year-old player has said little publicly about the case. Privately, he met with Goodell and Falcons owner Arthur Blank when the investigation was just beginning, and lied to both.

Vick's defense attorney, Billy Martin, said Vick will "explain his actions" publicly, but did not say when. The "Tom Joyner Morning Show," a syndicated program based in Dallas, said it will have a live interview with Vick on Tuesday, and he will take questions from callers.

No matter what Vick says or doesn't say, the final word rests with Hudson, a judge whose household includes a Bison Friche, a white powder puff of a dog.

As he emphasized to Vick's co-defendants when they agreed to their plea deals, Hudson is not bound by a prosecutor's recommendations or by sentencing guidelines.

Vick will plead guilty to conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and to sponsor a dog in an animal-fighting venture. Prosecutors will suggest a term of 12 to 18 months, but Hudson could give him five years, or more. The sentencing likely will be set before the end of the year.

His lawyers say they will try to minimize Vick's involvement.

"Our position has been that we are going to try to help Judge Hudson understand all the facts and Michael's role," Martin said in telephone interview. "Michael's role was different than others associated with this incident."

That role has been widely and loudly debated on sports talk radio, TV and football stadiums around the country.

Even before Vick admitted to his participation in the brutal sport, animal-rights groups protested outside NFL headquarters, Falcons camp and the federal court.

Nike severed its ties with him Friday, Reebok already has stopped selling his jersey and is accepting refunds for it. Upper Deck removed his card from its 2007 collection.

Reaction to the case largely has been divided along racial lines. Most of those defending Vick are black supporters; protesters have been predominantly white.

Black officials in Surry County got hate mail accusing them of dragging their feet on a local investigation to protect one of their own, and even the prosecutor there suggested race and profile were motives when the feds got involved.

The Atlanta chapter of the NAACP, which urged the public not to prematurely judge Vick, came to his defense again this week, saying he should be allowed to pursue his football career after serving his sentence.

In Vick's old neighborhood, he's seen as someone who never forgot his roots.

After deciding to enter the NFL draft, he picked the Boys & Girls Club where he spent much of his youth to make the announcement, remembering how it shaped his life.

A few months ago, mentor James "Poo" Johnson called Vick to ask if he could get some equipment for a Boys & Girls Club tournament. Vick sent the stuff along and provided school supplies and air conditioners to needy residents in the city.

His lawyers hope those stories showing Vick's better side will have sway. But it was the sway of those hometown ties that got Vick into this mess.

His supporters portray him as a victim of his own intense loyalty to the guys he hung out with before he became rich and famous. One such friend was Tony Taylor of Hampton, the first of three co-defendants to cop a plea.

Earnest Hardy, who lives next door to Vick's property in rural Surry County, said Taylor once told him Vick had promised: "If I ever make it, I'm going to look out for you."

Said Hardy: "So Tony was working at Marva Maid Dairy over in Newport News and he said when Mike got that big contract with all that money, he came and got him. He said, 'Didn't I tell you I was going to look out for you?' And that's what he did."

But they didn't look out for Vick.

Co-defendants Quanis Phillips of Atlanta and Purnell Peace pleaded guilty and agreed to testify against Vick if the case went to trial.

"If you go back and look at the list, the people that reaped the most personal benefit from being close to Mike are really the ones that are sinking him further down now," Hardy said.

When authorities found dozens of dogs and equipment commonly used in dogfighting at his property, Vick claimed he'd hardly ever been to the house and that family members had taken advantage of his generosity.

"If I'm not there, I don't know what's going on," he said.

Vick's written plea agreement filed with the court Friday erased that notion.

He acknowledged bankrolling the operation, participating in the execution of dogs in April and sponsoring _ and sometimes attending _ dogfights over the past six years.

The dogs had names such as "Magic," "Tiny" and "Too Short," and the enterprise's name, "Bad Newz Kennels," was an homage to the street name of his native Newport News.

In his plea agreement, Vick said that although he provided money for others to bet on the fights, he never placed bets himself or shared in any winnings _ a distinction that clearly carried no weight with Goodell. The commissioner also cleared the Falcons to try to get back $22 million in signing bonuses paid as part of a 10-year, $130 million contract.

Atlanta made him the No. 1 draft pick in 2001 after a dazzling three-year stint at Virginia Tech, where he had been a model player _ polite, soft-spoken and humble _ and led the Hokies to the 2000 national championship game.

By all accounts, it was good being Mike Vick.

He took over as the starter in 2002, leading Atlanta to the playoffs for the first time in four years. In 2004, Atlanta advanced to the NFC championship game, and the Falcons gave Vick the big contract _ then the richest awarded in NFL history.

Now, it's all come crashing down.

Vick's troubles have left those that knew him _ or thought they did _ flummoxed.

"The Michael Vick I knew here at Tech was a warm, caring guy, a generous guy, gracious and polite and a very friendly person," said Bill Roth, who dealt with Vick regularly as Virginia Tech's radio play-by-play announcer.

Still, the first seeds of trouble were planted in an interview that Vick did shortly before he was drafted. He talked proudly of his interest in dogs and said he wanted to open his own kennel.

Then there were a few bumps:

_a middle-finger salute to Falcons fans after a 31-13 drubbing by the New Orleans Saints at the Georgia Dome last November.

_airport security's confiscation of a water bottle with a hidden compartment that allegedly reeked of marijuana, an incident that made Vick the butt of jokes on late-night talk shows in January.

_a 2005 lawsuit, ultimately dismissed, by a woman who claimed Vick sought treatment for a sexually transmitted disease under the alias "Ron Mexico" after infecting her.

Embarrassing situations, but Vick escaped them as adroitly as he dodged defenders in becoming the first NFL quarterback to rush for more than 1,000 yards in a season.

He met his match in the U.S. Attorney's office in Richmond, and an indictment that described how Bad Newz Kennels dogs were executed after being beaten in fights, or for not showing enough ferocity in test sessions. In one case, it said Vick was consulted before a beaten dog was wet down and electrocuted.

For details like that, Vick's NFL career could be over.

Dan Shannon, a spokesman for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, said more than a guilty plea and an apology should be demanded if Vick is allowed to play again.

"It's not outside the realm of possibility if he makes a sincere effort not only to own up to what he's done and apologize, but takes steps to try to prevent this thing from happening in the future," he said. "So far, we haven't seen anything indicating that's the road he wants to take."

___

Associated Press Sports Writer Hank Kurz Jr. contributed to this report.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

printable version

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## jerseyboy

> I think it's absolutely hilarious how everyone in this thread eats animals that are treated just as bad as these fighting dogs LEGALLY. If you hate cruel treatment of animals then become a vegetarian. If this story was about Michael Vick being cruel to a chicken or a cow no one would give a damn...


This is absolutely false. I think it's hilarious that you somehow can make the comparison. Cows and chickens aren't tortured for sick pleasure and monetary gains. They are slaughtered one time for food. There is a huge difference when something is done out of necessity for survival. You think everyone is in the kind of health where they can just give up meat and survive on vegetables and tofu? You think the guys are standing around in the slaughter house lau***n and drinking forties? Did something of value come from these poor dogs suffering? Cows and chickens die maybe even in inhumane ways yes, that's too bad but at least it's for a reason. Those dogs lived hellish lives and died horrible deaths for nothing at all.

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## Renesis

> I think it's absolutely hilarious how everyone in this thread eats animals that are treated just as bad as these fighting dogs LEGALLY. If you hate cruel treatment of animals then become a vegetarian. If this story was about Michael Vick being cruel to a chicken or a cow no one would give a damn...
> 
> What Vick did was wrong, but why should he be punished to exorbitantly for something when worse things are done on ranches around the US on a daily basis? An animal is an animal. *A pitbull is not worth more than a cow or a pig just because it's a pet*. Give him the normal punishment for these actions, nothing more, nothing less.


With that logic we are not worth more than an animal just because we can think.....

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## scriptfactory

> This is absolutely false. I think it's hilarious that you somehow can make the comparison. Cows and chickens aren't tortured for sick pleasure and monetary gains. They are slaughtered one time for food. There is a huge difference when something is done out of necessity for survival. You think everyone is in the kind of health where they can just give up meat and survive on vegetables and tofu? You think the guys are standing around in the slaughter house lau***n and drinking forties? Did something of value come from these poor dogs suffering? Cows and chickens die maybe even in inhumane ways yes, that's too bad but at least it's for a reason. Those dogs lived hellish lives and died horrible deaths for nothing at all.


Cows and chickens ARE tortured for monetary gains. Do some research, please. Is veal necessary? How about you do a search for "cows" and "mastitis". How about you read about the way pigs are kept in their own feces... for profit. We abuse animals for profit. Dog or cow, humans abuse animals for profit.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished. I'm saying, let the punishment fit the crime.

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## scriptfactory

> With that logic we are not worth more than an animal just because we can think.....


Well, animals can think as well.

We are worth more than a dog or a cat because we possess sapience and we need to care for our fellow humans first, other animals second. If you don't feel a human life is more precious than the life of a dog then you have issues.  :Wink: 

Just following YOUR logic, why is a dog worth more than a cow? Because they live in our homes? Rats live in our homes as pets and we do worse things to them... So do pigs.

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## BgMc31

> That is awesome you rescued your dog.Im sure he's a happy guy for that.As for whether vick got off on killing.Well the evidence of selective and various methods of killing would lead one to believe otherwise.As for the way people think of dogs in the south is no excuse for his actions and inhuman treatment of another living creature.A bitter enemy would deserve a more honorable way of death.As for these racing dogs and horses that are supposedly hung or electrocuted,I'm sorry I have never heard of such a thing.As far as the Richard little case,there's a huge difference there.Unless Richard got in his car,did not like the way a person crossed in front of him so he guns it and runs them down.Well I suppose you would of had a point.What vick did was,intentionally breed fight and kill in a bizarre cruel premeditated manner that is unacceptable.As far as the indefinite suspension,hey if you need to finagle a little paper work pencil up a gambling charge as well,so be it.Im sure the dog he held under water thought his murder was unfair as well.As for a second chance,I don't know I'm to dam pissed off right now to think about what mike vick deserves,right now alls he deserves is three meals and a bunk...


Article on dog racing: http://www.hsus.org/pets/issues_affe...ing_facts.html

Article on horse racing: http://everything2.com/?node_id=1258238 and http://www3.vet.upenn.edu/labs/equin...02/freeman.htm

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## eliteforce

Yea and alot of the meat products you buy come from all over the world, the US might have slaughter standards but I'm sure in many countries that export meat product to the US it's just drag them in and chop chop..and when they catch fish they just throw them to the side and let them squirm to death..
i saw on TV one of vicks friends that was busted too, looks like some rural person living in a trailer out there..my guess is that vik comes from a rural farming area (before he made big $ in the nfl) and he was doing this dog fighting thing to help his old friends make some money..and people who chopped up a few hogs and chickens don't see what the big deal is..i guess he'd be better off if he just forgot about all those people where he came from and spent his off season time in hollywood fking and driving around in his ferari..

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## jerseyboy

> Cows and chickens ARE tortured for monetary gains. Do some research, please. Is veal necessary? How about you do a search for "cows" and "mastitis". How about you read about the way pigs are kept in their own feces... for profit. We abuse animals for profit. Dog or cow, humans abuse animals for profit.
> 
> I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished. I'm saying, let the punishment fit the crime.


Don't patronize me. I'm not stupid. Profit from gambling and profit from providing food for the country are somehow the same? Where is the money going from those slaughtered cows, pigs and chickens? Probably to support some families. Where do you think the money goes from gambling on dogfights? I can only imagine.

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## scriptfactory

> D*on't patronize me. I'm not stupid*. Profit from gambling and profit from providing food for the country are somehow the same? *Where is the money going from those slaughtered cows, pigs and chickens? Probably to support some families*. Where do you think the money goes from gambling on dogfights? I can only imagine.


If you don't want to be patronized then don't say things that leave you wide open for it!  :AaGreen22:  Just messin' with you, man.

It's still true, we abuse animals for profit, no matter how you spin it. If there were families benefiting from the profits of dogfighting (and I'm sure there are) would that make it better? No.

The money from those slaughtered farm animals are going to line the pockets of some rich dude somewhere. Sure it supports some poor workers but you don't think dogfighting supports people, too? I was watching a documentary on dogfighting a few weeks ago on National Geographic and it's a way of life for some people. They just don't know/think it's wrong. When you are raised killing animals for a living on a farm what does it matter if the animal is a dog or a pig?

And how about the employees who take such horrible care of these farm animals, like the people who were caught doing horrible things at KFC... they were taking the chickens, slamming them against walls and jumping on them. They tore off their heads while they were living, spray painted them and more! Guess what happened to those workers? Now imagine if they were doing the same thing to dogs?

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## ftony

> Article on dog racing: http://www.hsus.org/pets/issues_affe...ing_facts.html
> 
> Article on horse racing: http://everything2.com/?node_id=1258238 and http://www3.vet.upenn.edu/labs/equin...02/freeman.htm


Thank you for those links, I have to say I knew about large adoption programs for greyhounds, I also knew they were humanly euthanized in alarming numbers .I never heard of a dog being bluggend or starved. That's not right and a great point you have made. The horse racing link eh ,I know people who own race horses and they receive better medical treatment than I do. I cant speak for all but I know first hand that its not nearly as bad is what I read about the greyhounds. However, I don't feel just because the person or people who have done other crimes and got away with it excuse the actions of others who have been caught. If anything pointing out those horrific actions directs more anger towards the guy holding the bag at the time, mike vick. So while I definitely agree something needs be done to make dog racing illegal as quick as possible. Only then it will be a serious offense when an infraction occurs in the eyes of the law. Dog fighting has made that leap many years ago and is currently illegal in all our states, therefore while there is a correlation of animal cruelty. The fact remains mike was caught and he was caught doing something we all identify is wrong, with all the animal cruelty going on in this country when someone is caught in a illegal activity involving ruthless cruel treatment to animals, its imperative to pounce on them .Those articles only enforce my position to punish vick, not sympathize for the criminal that has been caught, and certainly not seek leniency because others have not...

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## ftony

OK .So food sources, our nations meat industry's contribution to our economy is now under fire. Its under fire because some lowlife, senselessly and ruthlessly bred fought and killed his animals for reason and methods that can leave even hardened criminals left to ponder why.... OK, so in terms of your analogies, what's next for our great nations fall to criminals??The next drug dealer busted is going to say what the fuk Bayer sells drugs? Then you will have you guys posting drug related side effects and deaths from major drug company's... please you guys are really reaching and are getting desperate here, makes me wonder what your motive is........

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## BgMc31

> Thank you for those links, I have to say I knew about large adoption programs for greyhounds, I also knew they were humanly euthanized in alarming numbers .I never heard of a dog being bluggend or starved. That's not right and a great point you have made. The horse racing link eh ,I know people who own race horses and they receive better medical treatment than I do. I cant speak for all but I know first hand that its not nearly as bad is what I read about the greyhounds. However, I don't feel just because the person or people who have done other crimes and got away with it excuse the actions of others who have been caught. If anything pointing out those horrific actions directs more anger towards the guy holding the bag at the time, mike vick. So while I definitely agree something needs be done done to make dog racing illegal as quick as possible. Only then it will be a serious offense when an infraction occurs in the eyes of the law. Dog fighting has made that leap many years ago and is currently illegal in all our states, therefore while there is a correlation of animal cruelty. The fact remains mike was caught and he was caught doing something we all identify is wrong, with all the animal cruelty going on in this country when someone is caught in a illegal activity involving ruthless cruel treatment to animals, its imperative to pounce on them .Those articles only enforce my position to punish vick, not sympathize for the criminal that has been caught, and certainly not seek leniency because others have not...



I posted that not to get leniency for Mike Vick. Like I said before he broke the law so he deserves to be punished. I posted those links to show that the outrage directed towards Vick needs to be directed at others as well. Until Mike Vick no one gave two shits about the ethical treatment of animals in other sporting arenas. My question is, why? People need to quit being so hypocritical. 

And yes, Mike Vick does come from rural Virginia, not the 'hood'. I really don't believe he is some sadistic killer that will eventually turn to maiming and torturing human beings like some have implied. The southern culture of dog fighting is in lock step with what Mike Vick has been accused of. Watch the latest episode of Real Sports and you will see what I mean. To these people, these dogs are service animals, not pets. I don't agree with this mentality, but again, this outrage is way overblown when the treatment of animals in many other industries are just as bad and we don't hear about them at all.

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## scriptfactory

> OK .So food sources, our nations meat industry's contribution to our economy is now under fire. Its under fire because some lowlife, senselessly and ruthlessly bred fought and killed his animals for reason and methods that can leave even hardened criminals left to ponder why.... OK, so in terms of your analogies, what's next for our great nations fall to the criminals... The next drug dealer busted is going to say what the fuk Bayer sells drugs? Then you will have you guys posting drug related side effects and deaths from major drug company's... please you guys are really reaching and are getting desperate here, makes me wonder what your motive is........


No one said Vick was innocent. No one said he shouldn't be punished.

You obviously missed the point so no use in debating any further. I'm going to go eat a dog...

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## ftony

> No one said Vick was innocent. No one said he shouldn't be punished.
> 
> You obviously missed the point so no use in debating any further. I'm going to go eat a dog...


I have a dog for you ..come by..lol

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## scriptfactory

> I have a dog for you ..come by..lol


I already have a few. My kids love to eat them, too... with ketchup. :P

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## Mogamedogz

> I posted that not to get leniency for Mike Vick. Like I said before he broke the law so he deserves to be punished. I posted those links to show that the outrage directed towards Vick needs to be directed at others as well. Until Mike Vick no one gave two shits about the ethical treatment of animals in other sporting arenas. My question is, why? People need to quit being so hypocritical. 
> 
> And yes, Mike Vick does come from rural Virginia, not the 'hood'. I really don't believe he is some sadistic killer that will eventually turn to maiming and torturing human beings like some have implied. The southern culture of dog fighting is in lock step with what Mike Vick has been accused of. Watch the latest episode of Real Sports and you will see what I mean. To these people, these dogs are service animals, not pets. I don't agree with this mentality, but again, this outrage is way overblown when the treatment of animals in many other industries are just as bad and we don't hear about them at all.


You have made some of the most REALISTIC posts in this thread. Good job.

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## eliteforce

Oh great now Dog Racing is cruel too :Aajack:  

the dogs have to run around a track chasing a fake rabit, i guess the cruel part is the trickery, making that poor doggy think it's going to get to eat a rabit but it's actualy just a dummy rabit, and wait a second - their teaching dogs to eat rabits, thats just wrong , they should teach dogs to be friends with the rabits, and when the rabits eat all our crops, who are we to kill them with dogs, those rabits have a right to eat our corn. now i guess ftony is gonna tell us about all this terrible stuff that happens in dog racing, like they inject the dogs with steroids , it's ok to inject ourselvs with steroids because we obviously all do that, but the dog? thats _mean_, doggy have a little booboo and make a little yelp when you stick he needle in his butt-thats cruel..this is a _serious offense in the eyes of the law_ these people should goto jail for a year, go ahead and let some of those child rapists out, it's too crowded, bring in the dog racers..

ftony i thnk you might be a little too close to you dogs, your not sleeping together are you?




> So while I definitely agree something needs be done to make dog racing illegal as quick as possible. Only then it will be a serious offense when an infraction occurs in the eyes of the law.

----------


## ftony

> Oh great now Dog Racing is cruel too 
> 
> the dogs have to run around a track chasing a fake rabit, i guess the cruel part is the trickery, making that poor doggy think it's going to get to eat a rabit but it's actualy just a dummy rabit, and wait a second - their teaching dogs to eat rabits, thats just wrong , they should teach dogs to be friends with the rabits, and when the rabits eat all our crops, who are we to kill them with dogs, those rabits have a right to eat our corn. now i guess ftony is gonna tell us about all this terrible stuff that happens in dog racing, like they inject the dogs with steroids , it's ok to inject ourselvs with steroids because we obviously all do that, but the dog? thats _mean_, doggy have a little booboo and make a little yelp when you stick he needle in his butt-thats cruel..this is a _serious offense in the eyes of the law_ these people should goto jail for a year, go ahead and let some of those child rapists out, it's too crowded, bring in the dog racers..
> 
> ftony i thnk you might be a little too close to you dogs, your not sleeping together are you?


I guess you didnt bother to read bigmacs link on dog racing .I agree to it, I didnt post it.You say i sleep with my dog?what are you some kind of freak?Got some wierd shit on your mind..bit#h :Aajack:

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## ftony

> Oh great now Dog Racing is cruel too 
> 
> the dogs have to run around a track chasing a fake rabit, i guess the cruel part is the trickery, making that poor doggy think it's going to get to eat a rabit but it's actualy just a dummy rabit, and wait a second - their teaching dogs to eat rabits, thats just wrong , they should teach dogs to be friends with the rabits, and when the rabits eat all our crops, who are we to kill them with dogs, those rabits have a right to eat our corn. now i guess ftony is gonna tell us about all this terrible stuff that happens in dog racing, like they inject the dogs with steroids , it's ok to inject ourselvs with steroids because we obviously all do that, but the dog? thats _mean_, doggy have a little booboo and make a little yelp when you stick he needle in his butt-thats cruel..this is a _serious offense in the eyes of the law_ these people should goto jail for a year, go ahead and let some of those child rapists out, it's too crowded, bring in the dog racers..
> 
> ftony i thnk you might be a little too close to you dogs, your not sleeping together are you?


Heres a little bit of what bigmacs link contained.Use text assist if you need to..Every year, the industry breeds tens of thousands of greyhounds, more than it can place at racetracks. This overbreeding is motivated by the desire to produce "winning" dogs. Thousands of greyhounds at each track are disposed of yearly to bring in a "fresh" group of dogs. A dog's racing career is usually over at 3½ to 4 years of age.

If able to live out his or her full life as a companion animal, a greyhound may live 13 or more years. Unfortunately, the industry kills greyhounds at various stages in the dogs' lives because they appear to lack racing potential or are injured. Many dogs, when they are no longer profitable, are adopted into good homes through rescue groups, but thousands are not. As with any business, profit is the bottom line; as a result, greyhounds are often destroyed using the least expensive methods, including gunshot. Reports of bludgeoning, abandonment, and starvation have also surfaced. Veterinarians humanely euthanize some greyhounds. theres a little something for you perhaps it may stimulate your mind with some new wacking material...lmao :AaGreen22:

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## eliteforce

in addition to those gogs euthanized, in developed countries they always take dogs off the streets and put them to sleep, but in developing countries stray dogs just roam the streets and eat vermin, so for example NewYork is overun with rats because there are no dogs and cats to keep them in check, but they euthanize stray dogs and cats in america because it's 'cruel' to let them run around like that..

I always think stray dogs have the best life because they are free to do what comes naturally to them, roam around, fend for themelves, eat rats..your dog is in jail, it's locked in the backyard with nothing to do.. and in America you can't just let dogs run around outside and kind of 'half' own them; i don't have a dog i just toss some food to the half-strays when i got some extra and they just sort of hang around our street-they seem happy, i'm not sure who owns them..one of them is missing an eye and it limps because one time it got into a fight with another dog and it came back really damaged bleeding, someone took it to the vet and the took the eye out and stiched it shut, see it's natural for dogs to viciously fight..their predators, , he still seems hapy and he keeps people from coming into my place just because sometimes i throw him some leftovers....if it were over there everyone would btch, "oo the dog this the dog that,the dogs out, who dog is that? wait he's being mean to the dog, the dog bit my dog"

you people regulate sht too much, every fking little thing has to be made illegal, everything has to have a restriction, their constantly making new restrictions, you don't like the way they breed dogs so dog racing has to be made illegal, whats next, ah dog shows, i'm sure theres something wrong with that too..

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## ftony

> in addition to those gogs euthanized, in developed countries they always take dogs off the streets and put them to sleep, but in developing countries stray dogs just roam the streets and eat vermin, so for example NewYork is overun with rats because there are no dogs and cats to keep them in check, but they euthanize stray dogs and cats in america because it's 'cruel' to let them run around like that..
> 
> I always think stray dogs have the best life because they are free to do what comes naturally to them, roam around, fend for themelves, eat rats..your dog is in jail, it's locked in the backyard with nothing to do.. and in America you can't just let dogs run around outside and kind of 'half' own them; i don't have a dog i just toss some food to the half-strays when i got some extra and they just sort of hang around our street-they seem happy, i'm not sure who owns them..one of them is missing an eye and it limps because one time it got into a fight with another dog and it came back really damaged bleeding, someone took it to the vet and the took the eye out and stiched it shut, see it's natural for dogs to viciously fight..their predators, , he still seems hapy and he keeps people from coming into my place just because sometimes i throw him some leftovers....if it were over there everyone would btch, "oo the dog this the dog that,the dogs out, who dog is that? wait he's being mean to the dog, the dog bit my dog"
> 
> you people regulate sht too much, every fking little thing has to be made illegal, everything has to have a restriction, their constantly making new restrictions, you don't like the way they breed dogs so dog racing has to be made illegal, whats next, ah dog shows, i'm sure theres something wrong with that too..


I guess other countries do lots of things that we no longer do.Many strays once roamed but it became problematic for many city's...But Hey your rite good vermin control.Growing up I remember many strays around the nieghborhood.AS for my dog he is actually lucky,I own my own business and I am able to come home a few times a day to let him out to play,chase rabbits or whatever he gets off on...He Seems to love carrying around old car tires,LOL his head is 23inches around.I guess you could say its like a playground for him,ropes for him to tug etc.Far from prison.I know the type of people that own dogs just to own them.lock them away and just feed them ,I wont even give you my opinion on that...Just To summarize my stance here incase you have not read everything I posted.My biggest problem here is the senseless killing,the ruthlessness of what he did.Not so much that he fought the dogs,I mean yes I don't agree with dog fighting but what he did would make even a dog fighter sick( reference: THE World of the American Pit bull Terrier,Richard Stratten)...I Bet if he set up a rescue next city over,he could have easily sent all his underachieves there,but no he'd rather kill them in a bizarre manner.I heard and don't know if its true.He beat the dogs off the ground by there hind legs.He could have sacrificed a little bit of money to keep some code of ethics for the sake of human decency.If you don't agree,what can I say that's your choice to make about how people in our society should treat our animals. I'm much more likely to hurt a person than an animal as I have had my run ins ,so hey I guess that's my issue,we all have some...

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## Giants11

> Don't patronize me. I'm not stupid. Profit from gambling and profit from providing food for the country are somehow the same? Where is the money going from those slaughtered cows, pigs and chickens? Probably to support some families. Where do you think the money goes from gambling on dogfights? I can only imagine.


Are you on crack dude? Where are getting this load of BS.

The Cattle Industry etc... is in it for bigger profits that Dog fighting will ever be. And yes the animals that we consume are tortured. There's plenty of proof as well if you decide to do some research.

But my guess is, you'll tell me that since they are our food source it doesn't matter how they live or how they die.

I'll say it again, it seems when it comes to Dogs people throw down the gauntlet. Any other animal, fvck'em who cares, they are our food.

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## ftony

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/play...399&src=sports

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## ftony

> Are you on crack dude? Where are getting this load of BS.
> 
> The Cattle Industry etc... is in it for bigger profits that Dog fighting will ever be. And yes the animals that we consume are tortured. There's plenty of proof as well if you decide to do some research.
> 
> But my guess is, you'll tell me that since they are our food source it doesn't matter how they live or how they die.
> 
> I'll say it again, it seems when it comes to Dogs people throw down the gauntlet. Any other animal, fvck'em who cares, they are our food.


The cattle industry is a major contribution to this country's economy,Dog fighting is contributing to delinquents buying drugs and beer..Yes,cattle is a food source and it sucks they are mistreated,but they are killed for a purpose,not for amusement...no Hard feelings dude I respect your opinion, yes cattle are animals to..

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## Chitown Raider

> I've learned so much reading all this bs, that I'm considering raising pitbulls, and "train" them to bite peeps like elite.


 :LOL:

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## ironfist

I agree alot with jerseyboy and ftony...Here's my stance on things. I have nothing against pittbulls, I'm sure the breed is great but man has managede to destroy the breed. And I'm not saying every one but the meanest of the mean and kept and bred, line bred, and inbred...These animals are jacked up. Alot of them aren't normal in the head. I would probably compare it to psycotic and bopolar people....


That being said, I love bully breeds. I own 4 Presa Canario's myself and would not trade them for the world. I am sure there are great pittbull pts out there but too many people have ruined too many lines for me to chance having them as pets...As far as Vick goes, what a friggin moron. First of all, you make that kind of money and you can't come up with some better, more entertaining hobbies? Maybe buy some boats, race cars etc...Secondly, he's a dam idiot for having the things on land registered to him. Don't be a dumbass. Buy a few acres and put it in ur buddies name and let him have it. It's a drop in the bucket to him...He'll never play another down of football again.

Now here's what I really have a problem with, while I hate dog fighting and do not condone it one bit, have some friggin humanity. If that's your thing and you fights dogs,whatever. I won't even get into the if he wants to fight then he should fight cause I am sure many guys do both. Here's my problem, skinning the animals alive, electrocuting them, torturing to get them to fight, starving them to get them to fight, slamming them on the ground to kill them, stealing peoples pets as bait dogs etc...That sick

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## jerseyboy

> The cattle industry is a major contribution to this country's economy,Dog fighting is contributing to delinquents buying drugs and beer..Yes,cattle is a food source and it sucks they are mistreated,but they are killed for a purpose,not for amusement...no Hard feelings dude I respect your opinion, yes cattle are animals to..


Thank you for making my point for me.

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## jerseyboy

> I agree alot with jerseyboy and ftony...Here's my stance on things. I have nothing against pittbulls, I'm sure the breed is great but man has managede to destroy the breed. And I'm not saying every one but the meanest of the mean and kept and bred, line bred, and inbred...These animals are jacked up. Alot of them aren't normal in the head. I would probably compare it to psycotic and bopolar people....
> 
> 
> That being said, I love bully breeds. I own 4 Presa Canario's myself and would not trade them for the world. I am sure there are great pittbull pts out there but too many people have ruined too many lines for me to chance having them as pets...As far as Vick goes, what a friggin moron. First of all, you make that kind of money and you can't come up with some better, more entertaining hobbies? Maybe buy some boats, race cars etc...Secondly, he's a dam idiot for having the things on land registered to him. Don't be a dumbass. Buy a few acres and put it in ur buddies name and let him have it. It's a drop in the bucket to him...He'll never play another down of football again.
> 
> Now here's what I really have a problem with, while I hate dog fighting and do not condone it one bit, have some friggin humanity. If that's your thing and you fights dogs,whatever. I won't even get into the if he wants to fight then he should fight cause I am sure many guys do both. Here's my problem, skinning the animals alive, electrocuting them, torturing to get them to fight, starving them to get them to fight, slamming them on the ground to kill them, stealing peoples pets as bait dogs etc...That sick


It was only a couple years ago when 2 Presa Canarios killed a woman. I did a search and bam up comes another story where a woman in Florida was also killed by a Presa. It was her own dog. Then another in San Francisco in her own apartment. How come the media hasn't jumped all over these stories and blown it up like all Presa's are killers? We had a family friend who's Dalmation attacked there son and tore his ear off. Better outlaw them too. You must really have your hands full with 4. Those are big ass dogs.

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## Chitown Raider

> It was only a couple years ago when 2 Presa Canarios killed a woman. I did a search and bam up comes another story where a woman in Florida was also killed by a Presa. It was her own dog. Then another in San Francisco in her own apartment. How come the media hasn't jumped all over these stories and blown it up like all Presa's are killers? We had a family friend who's Dalmation attacked there son and tore his ear off. Better outlaw them too. You must really have your hands full with 4. Those are big ass dogs.


My uncle had a Dalmation back when me and my cousin were growing up that attacked my cousin after the two of us were play wrestiling. My cousin and I were about 10 years old at the time and this Dalmation "Samson" locked on to my cousin's forearm I kicked it in the nuts but I just made things worse as the dog bit down even harder. It was a ****ed scene after that.

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## ***xxx***

> This post may have relevance in germany.But here in the U.S we keep our canine companions close to our family's,not cows or pigs (Livestock)Germany has concentration like camps for confiscated pitbulls ..Dont they???


buhahhahaha this statement is a bit exaggerated LOL concentration camps...well if you call a cage a concentration camp, then yes it s true :Smilie:

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## ftony

> buhahhahaha this statement is a bit exaggerated LOL concentration camps...well if you call a cage a concentration camp, then yes it s true


THE British Kennel Club is leading international protests against a decision by the German government to impose a draconian clampdown on pit bull terriers and other "fighting" breeds.

British dog owners are being inundated with calls for help from their German counterparts since the stringent anti-dog laws were introduced by Germany's national and regional governments a fortnight ago.

The Kennel Club, in a letter to Gerhard Schröder, the German Chancellor, said that British owners had been "horrified" by the new laws, which "discriminated" against 14 breeds, among which are some of the most popular in this country. A spokesman said last night that British owners had been warned not to take these breeds to Germany for shows or on holiday because they could be breaking the law.

advertisementA campaign started by the British Our Dogs newspaper, has prompted protests from around the world. *In several German states, "fighting" dogs had been threatened with death at the hands of government vets before the outcry forced them to drop the proposals. In other parts of Germany, dogs have been attacked in the streets, doused with petrol and set alight, and fed razor blades.*
The German laws, which have strong parallels with the much-derided dangerous dog legislation brought in by the British Government in 1991, followed the fatal savaging of a six-year-old Turkish boy by two bull terriers in a school playground in Hamburg, prompting a public outcry.

The measures, introduced by a majority of Germany's 16 federal states, make it compulsory for owners of "fighting breeds" to keep their dogs muzzled and on a lead at all times. Owners also have to take a mandatory examination on dog rearing and training and must undergo a "reliability test". If owners fail to pass the tests or comply with the regulations, local authorities are empowered to confiscate their pets.

The measures have been personally backed by Mr Schröder. He told the Berlin parliament in the wake of the Hamburg killing: "*These fighting machines must be taken off the streets." German dog owners, however, say that the strict new laws, which have received the vociferous support of the country's tabloid press, have created an hysterical anti-dog climate in which dogs and their owners are increasingly subjected to sadistic attacks and abuse.

In one incident in the north German town of Lübeck last week, a group of so-called "dog haters" were held responsible for a gruesome attack on a pit bull terrier that was fed a sausage stuffed with razor blades. In other reported incidents, dogs have been doused in petrol and set ablaze, while the owners of other aggressive looking dogs have been subjected to physical attacks and abuse.*
Many German dog owners are so worried by what they say is a growing climate of anti-dog aggression that they have appealed to their British counterparts for help. In some cases British dog owners have been asked to find homes for dogs now effectively proscribed in Germany.

A spokesman for the German Interior Ministry, which is responsible for enforcing national bans on the import of "fighting dogs" and the breeding of such dogs told The Telegraph: "We do not think that there is a hysterical climate. What we do notice is increased vigilance on behalf of the German public regarding these dogs."

Roger French, the chief executive of the Kennel Club, said in his letter to the *German Chancellor that there was worldwide concern about the situation. He said: "We have now spoken to dozens of worried parties, including German dog owners, who all feel that this situation is spiralling out of control, largely due to media hysteria and the determination of government ministers to ensure that these breeds are effectively phased out."

Mr French said that the Kennel Club was particularly worried by the inclusion of breeds such as the Staffordshire bull terrier, the bull terrier, the bull mastiff, the Old English mastiff, the Neopolitan mastiff and the Rhodesian ridgeback. "All of these breeds are recognised and registered in the UK and are certainly not considered 'fighting dogs', or a threat to public safety by our Government."*
The British Dangerous Dogs Act was rushed through Parliament after a rash of increasingly lurid newspaper headlines about fighting dogs savaging children. It placed restrictions on four breeds. *This is not the exact article i read but,I will find you some other articles if you want them.I need some time digging through my fav list.I saved them in one of these dam computers...*

----------


## Renesis

> Well, animals can think as well.
> 
> We are worth more than a dog or a cat because we possess sapience and we need to care for our fellow humans first, other animals second. If you don't feel a human life is more precious than the life of a dog then you have issues. 
> 
> Just following YOUR logic, why is a dog worth more than a cow? Because they live in our homes? Rats live in our homes as pets and we do worse things to them... So do pigs.


Yah I would sacrifice 100 people for my dog. Guess that means I have issues. Oh well then I have issues.

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## jerseyboy

> THE British Kennel Club is leading international protests against a decision by the German government to impose a draconian clampdown on pit bull terriers and other "fighting" breeds.
> 
> British dog owners are being inundated with calls for help from their German counterparts since the stringent anti-dog laws were introduced by Germany's national and regional governments a fortnight ago.
> 
> The Kennel Club, in a letter to Gerhard Schröder, the German Chancellor, said that British owners had been "horrified" by the new laws, which "discriminated" against 14 breeds, among which are some of the most popular in this country. A spokesman said last night that British owners had been warned not to take these breeds to Germany for shows or on holiday because they could be breaking the law.
> 
> advertisementA campaign started by the British Our Dogs newspaper, has prompted protests from around the world. *In several German states, "fighting" dogs had been threatened with death at the hands of government vets before the outcry forced them to drop the proposals. In other parts of Germany, dogs have been attacked in the streets, doused with petrol and set alight, and fed razor blades.*
> The German laws, which have strong parallels with the much-derided dangerous dog legislation brought in by the British Government in 1991, followed the fatal savaging of a six-year-old Turkish boy by two bull terriers in a school playground in Hamburg, prompting a public outcry.
> 
> ...


Sounds to me like there's just alot of bad dog owners in Germany. That's all it means to me.

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## jerseyboy

> Yah I would sacrifice 100 people for my dog. Guess that means I have issues. Oh well then I have issues.


Yeah I have to say that I care more for my dogs than I do for MOST people. Maybe it's because they've brought me more joy. I don't see that as an issue though. I used to have a bumper sticker that said, "The more people I meet, the more I like my dog."

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## Amorphic

> Yeah I have to say that I care more for my dogs than I do for MOST people. Maybe it's because they've brought me more joy. I don't see that as an issue though. I used to have a bumper sticker that said, "The more people I meet, the more I like my dog."


 Totally agree, I care about my dog more than most people ive met, they are unconditional friends and companions, same cant be said about most people in the world.

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## ftony

> Sounds to me like there's just alot of bad dog owners in Germany. That's all it means to me.


That's actually not the article I was looking for.I have read something that was mailed to me and I'm thinking it was from the human society,or aspca ,I can't seem to locate the link.If I find it ill post it,It was about how the confiscated animals in Germany were mistreated,and it was pretty bad.I don't know for sure its true,I just know for sure I read it.I don't care to debate that article.I made my point here and its not about how Germany treats its animals....This treads like beating a dead horse...lol,my bad...

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## ***xxx***

> Totally agree, I care about my dog more than most people ive met, they are unconditional friends and companions, same cant be said about most people in the world.


word!

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## Chitown Raider

> Yeah I have to say that I care more for my dogs than I do for MOST people. Maybe it's because they've brought me more joy. I don't see that as an issue though. I used to have a bumper sticker that said, "The more people I meet, the more I like my dog."



I've met alot more dogs that I've liked compared to some of the people I've met.

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## ironfist

> It was only a couple years ago when 2 Presa Canarios killed a woman. I did a search and bam up comes another story where a woman in Florida was also killed by a Presa. It was her own dog. Then another in San Francisco in her own apartment. How come the media hasn't jumped all over these stories and blown it up like all Presa's are killers? We had a family friend who's Dalmation attacked there son and tore his ear off. Better outlaw them too. You must really have your hands full with 4. Those are big ass dogs.


They took a bad rap for awhile after the mauling in san fran...I had not heard about the women in florida....I think alot of blame falls on the breeders. Just like vick was doing, breeding the nastiest male to the nastiest female. A responsible breeder with a hyper aggressive dog either alters the animal of breeds it with a timid, calm specimen to balance out the temper...My animals are all very well socialized, even tempered, well mannered, and easily trained....They listen to everyone in the family and will protect every family member. They are very leery and untrusting of strangers which I think is a good thing....I only have 3 at my house but have never had an issues...

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## jerseyboy

Holy shit is this thread still going?!! Check out this video all you Pit haters. For Pit lovers it's a tear jerker for sure but it's such a great tribute to our favorite breed. If this doesn't change your mind about Pits then your hopeless.
http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fusea...ideoid=1583891

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## Godson

vick is innocent

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## Mogamedogz

Not again...

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## Geeezer

> vick is innocent


Not True,Bro

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## seattleironpumper

to stand back as a dog is done that way , vicks ***** ass has pads and he can run like hell we have all seen that, i never seen vick take a john elway hit, no punt intended







> Why is he a coward? Yeah he's a scumbag for fighting dogs, but he never backed down from anyone or anybody. And anyone who puts his body on the line and plays football the way he does, ain't no coward. Maybe you should try it sometime...

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## seattleironpumper

I have husky pups all they do is fight but,doesnt mean they have it in there bood to be fighting dogs, i must say it is the owner of the dog so vick the prick gets what he deserves and if u think its so bad to bash vick mabe u should have been there when they had voltage put to them, and when they were beat to death, mabe your view would change I would hate to be a dog and have u as an owner..... Humaine way of doing things u see!!!!






> ...IMO, this line of thinking is a bigger problem than dog fighting. 
> 
> NO. They are NOT BETTER. They are lesser creatures than "man". We are ABOVE them on the food chain. We OWN them... we control what/when/if they eat. We decide when they should breed, and when we should put them to death. As much as we love them, and accept selected ones as members of our family.... In REALITY, they are still JUST dogs. 
> 
> While all of the touchy feely stuff you said is true (about their unconditional love and loyalty), it still does not make their lives EQUAL to the live of a human being. ANY human being. 
> 
> My wife and I run a small Pit Bull rescue league (we have for the last eight years). I would bet anything I own, that we have sacrificed more of our time, energy, and MONEY for the good of the breed, than any of the other people in this thread COMBINED. I have spent my entire life (and will spend the rest of my life) fighting for the well being of these dogs. That said; I would sacrifice the lives of 1000 dogs if I knew it would save the life of ONE human being. 
> 
> Thats not to say I condone dog fighting, or condone inhumane treatment of animals, just that I consider human life more valuable. (Im sure being human, probably has something to do with that!  ) 
> ...

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## jerseyboy

I don't care for this thread to start up again but there is some light at the end of the tunnel for at least a couple of these dogs. Some of them got good families out west and are living lives as loving pets now. I saved the article about it. It says alot for the breed in that they can be abused like that and still become part of a family.

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