# COMPETITIVE BODYBUILDING - POWERLIFTING - ATHLETICS & SPORTS > COMPETITIVE BODYBUILDING Q & A >  How to get to 4% bodyfat.

## MR-FQ320

Right, Iv gotten down to a guesstimate 10-8% bf, but how do I go the extra mile and burn the last bit of fat off for competition and show purposes ? 

Do I really have to sacrifice all those calories, feel weak and shit just for vanity ? Do I even have to weight train the last couple of weeks ?

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## Mp859

You don't get to 4% without a shitload of drugs and also diuretics. 4% would only be held for a few hrs.

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## < <Samson> >

Lowest possible semi maintainable by "most" guys I would say is right around 8%


Even 8% is no joke to myself


To pull sub 7% is extremely unnatural - IMO


In my case, my diet would have to be restricted to near nothing when I hit bellow 8% - then from that point, it's all uphill. Diuretics, possibly no test & a spot on workout regimen for about 2-4 weeks

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## Times Roman

who said you had to get to 4%?

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## kelkel

> who said you had to get to 4%?


Andreas Munzer

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## Times Roman

> Andreas Munzer


EXACTLY MY POINT

and it ended up killing him.

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## < <Samson> >

> and it ended up killing him.


At just 31

Diuretics is one of the things I have not touched to this point - well, aside from a ECA stack

There is damn near no reason to try to push yourself bellow 7% - aside from modeling or competition. I really don't think many guys do this for just themselves.

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## Metalject

> Right, Iv gotten down to a guesstimate 10-8% bf, but how do I go the extra mile and burn the last bit of fat off for competition and show purposes ? 
> 
> Do I really have to sacrifice all those calories, feel weak and shit just for vanity ? Do I even have to weight train the last couple of weeks ?


Yes, you have to suffer to get to 4% and you have to suffer a lot. Getting into the 7% range is hard enough and the lower you go the harder it gets. I never reached an even 4.0%, mid-4's was the lowest and I felt like I was dying...I feel miserable at 6 or less, so yeah 4ish is hell. 

I do disagree with what Mp859 said about it only being possible to hold it for a few hours. You can hold very low fat levels for a few weeks if needed but it's going to suck ass the entire time. But holding that ridiculous thin skin carbed up look, yes that's only possible for a few hours at a time.

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## Docd187123

> You don't get to 4% without a shitload of drugs and also diuretics. 4% would only be held for a few hrs.





> Lowest possible semi maintainable by "most" guys I would say is right around 8%
> 
> 
> Even 8% is no joke to myself
> 
> 
> To pull sub 7% is extremely unnatural - IMO
> 
> 
> In my case, my diet would have to be restricted to near nothing when I hit bellow 8% - then from that point, it's all uphill. Diuretics, possibly no test & a spot on workout regimen for about 2-4 weeks


Diuretics promote the excretion of water from the body through urine. Water is not fat mass but fat free mass or lean body mass. How would diuretics help in achieving a drop in body fat?

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## MR-FQ320

> who said you had to get to 4%?


Well I actually want to win when I enter, so figured I needed to come on stage really low bf.

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## Mp859

> Well I actually want to win when I enter, so figured I needed to come on stage really low bf.


 It's hard to believe anyone will be 4% and full at a local show.

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## BG

I had to diet down to around 7% then go into keto for nearly 2 weeks. Sucked bad, had to take those weeks off of work because my mind didnt work right.

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## Mp859

> I had to diet down to around 7% then go into keto for nearly 2 weeks. Sucked bad, had to take those weeks off of work because my mind didnt work right.


 I start getting bad anxiety and shit lower 7%. I couldn't imagine trying to get to 4. Just makes me cringe thinking about it.

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## MR-FQ320

Last years winner of the first timers. 

About 30 entered the first timers and about three entered my height class.

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## Metalject

> I had to diet down to around 7% then go into keto for nearly 2 weeks. Sucked bad, had to take those weeks off of work because my mind didnt work right.


Any time I've gone to very low fat levels, below 7% I have the same issue. My mind is a mess, very hard time thinking clearly and for some reason it turns me into an emotional mess as well. I also have a very difficult time sleeping, which is extremely difficult even when you're not dieting hard. The whole thing is hell, that's the only way to really put it, IMO.

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## MR-FQ320

Yeah I have had "brain fog" before, really irritable through dieting and hence lack of sleep, 3am protein shakes with psyllium husk helped with that though.

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## BG

> It's hard to believe anyone will be 4% and full at a local show.


I agree, I bet I was only around 6.5 or so, I still had glute fat left to lose.


> Yeah I have had "brain fog" before, really irritable through dieting and hence lack of sleep, 3am protein shakes with psyllium husk helped with that though.


I dropped shakes pretty early in prep.


> Any time I've gone to very low fat levels, below 7% I have the same issue. My mind is a mess, very hard time thinking clearly and for some reason it turns me into an emotional mess as well. I also have a very difficult time sleeping, which is extremely difficult even when you're not dieting hard. The whole thing is hell, that's the only way to really put it, IMO.


I ended up fighting with my boss over the time off and quit, things got crazy. I would have to have no job in order to do it again. Yes I agree, it was torture, mostly for my wife  :Frown:

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## MR-FQ320

Oh god, I would have been relying on shakes quite a bit...

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## BG

> Oh god, I would have been relying on shakes quite a bit...


You cant really.

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## fatalflame

thats funny when i first starting lifting i was super skinny and had 7% bf and when i started lifting it went down to 5.5%bf without even really trying but it didnt last long after a while it went back up. 
being srs

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## Mp859

> thats funny when i first starting lifting i was super skinny and had 7% bf and when i started lifting it went down to 5.5%bf without even really trying but it didnt last long after a while it went back up. being srs


How did you measure this?

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## fatalflame

> How did you measure this?


in-body at complete nutrition but i know they might not be a 100% accurate

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## fatalflame

> How did you measure this?


i might still have the papers somewhere in my house

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## RigPig

Crystal....then you'll have energy to workout 24/7...4% in 4 days hahaha....

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## < <Samson> >

> Crystal....then you'll have energy to workout 24/7...4% in 4 days hahaha....



Ha ha :/

But, this holds some truth. When you're in a mode of "that's what I need to get to". Damn near anything goes. 

Reading the above posts really reinforces my thoughts on how much suffering you go through to get that extreme look. 

I barely started to experience the harsh sides of dieting to the extreme last summer. And from what I can tell I was maybe barely under 9%. But, it seems better if you start at a lower Bf. In my case I was pulling down from around 15%. That's way worse than starting at 12% or so, trying to drop to 8

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## magdalena777

> Right, Iv gotten down to a guesstimate 10-8% bf, but how do I go the extra mile and burn the last bit of fat off for competition and show purposes ? Do I really have to sacrifice all those calories, feel weak and shit just for vanity ? Do I even have to weight train the last couple of weeks ?


I did get down to 6% for a competition, it's all in the food , water , sodium etc. intake. In my case it was closely monitored by my coach...
It was a struggle , I felt like sh!t but I did win...
So yes!
U will have to sacrifice n u will feel weak..
The worse u feel the better u look, lol....
Good luck to u...

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## MIKE_XXL

Thats why as a personal trainer / competition prep coach it is easier to tell people what to do then do it...LOL...

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## MR-FQ320

One question: I'm pretty sure that this equation does not hold true- body weight minus body fat percentage equal the equivalent calories to eat, I seem to have eat a lot less than the calculation

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## marcus300

The lowest bf I've ever been was 6% and it nearly killed me, I was on a bucket load of gear and my regime was harsh. I looked really well but I actually looked better within the 2 week ending the diet. Best of luck

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## bartman314

based on all this experience, i think there's a distribution in what people can achieve 'naturally' like with muscle mass. 

i recently had an x-ray measurement of body fat and came in at 5.3%. i was surprised at how low i came in, but x-ray is supposedly the most accurate measure. 

i'm off cycle, on trt, 51, 6'2" and 225. diet is clean and carb poor. i workout almost every day with weights in the morning and cardio in the afternoon. it isn't easy, but it is sustainable for me. i'm having bw done in a month and will see if everything checks out.

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## Metalject

> One question: I'm pretty sure that this equation does not hold true- body weight minus body fat percentage equal the equivalent calories to eat, I seem to have eat a lot less than the calculation


Those calculation methods almost never hold true, not in cases like this.

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## < <Samson> >

Good thread

Really reinstates the idea of extreme low body fat not being achievable without a whole lot of pain & suffering



So, from what I am reading here & have learned so far is that the lowest "semi normally" achievable Bf% is right about 8% < give or take 1%

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## Metalject

> Good thread
> 
> Really reinstates the idea of extreme low body fat not being achievable without a whole lot of pain & suffering
> 
> 
> 
> So, from what I am reading here & have learned so far is that the lowest "semi normally" achievable Bf% is right about 8% < give or take 1%


Any body fat is achievable, it just depends on how much you want to push it. And sure, the more you push it the suckier it gets. And this is just my personal opinion, but I think people throw terms like "8%" and "normal" around far more than they should...I'd go as far as to say they throw phrases "calculating nutrition" around way too much. Some people, even if starting from the same body fat percentage are going to have a much harder time getting to 8% than others, and those same people are going to have to struggle more to get even lower. In either case though it's doable, you just have to find the right path that works for you.

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## Bonaparte

> Last years winner of the first timers. 
> 
> About 30 entered the first timers and about three entered my height class.


If it helps, that guy isn't at 4% BF.

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## < <Samson> >

> And this is just my personal opinion, but I think people throw terms like "8%" and "normal" around far more than they should...I'd go as far as to say they throw phrases "calculating nutrition" around way too much. Some people, even if starting from the same body fat percentage are going to have a much harder time getting to 8% than others, and those same people are going to have to struggle more to get even lower. In either case though it's doable, you just have to find the right path the at works for you.


I agree - I say it pretty much from my experience directed towards myself. But, also as the bigger majority of guys into fitness can reach those numbers. Yet, there is no standards- it's all on what we do with ourselves and how our bodies respond to it. 

But, for sure - there is "normal" in anything bodybuilding related. Everyone is different & they're aren't even any direct comparisons.

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## MIKE_XXL

Formula is rather simple Cocaine + Amphetamine + heavy androgens + T3 this will peal anyone....if you are still behind schedule DNP will finish off the look after 7 to 10 day cycle with added benefit of anabolic rebound...

OF COURSE I AM JOKING!!! However it would work...persistence and ability to handle low amounts of sleep and crazy cravings...i find once i get to about 6% i dream about food and sleep maybe 4 hours per night if i am lucky....not to mention i am pleasant to talk to and my personality shines like no other...ohhh i cant believe i will be putting myself through this one more time...

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## Metalject

> Formula is rather simple Cocaine + Amphetamine + heavy androgens + T3 this will peal anyone....if you are still behind schedule DNP will finish off the look after 7 to 10 day cycle with added benefit of anabolic rebound...


You might be joking about that but the sad truth is it's very real. Most won't ever believe it though...heck, most involved in the sport won't admit that it's this way, it's purposeful blind ignorance I guess. If you close your eyes hard enough and wish it were one way it must be true. 




> OF COURSE I AM JOKING!!! However it would work...persistence and ability to handle low amounts of sleep and crazy cravings...i find once i get to about 6% i dream about food and sleep maybe 4 hours per night if i am lucky....not to mention i am pleasant to talk to and my personality shines like no other...ohhh i cant believe i will be putting myself through this one more time...


I was 3 or so weeks out on the treadmill and a commercial for IHOP came on...pancake after pancake, and while this will sound insanely ridiculous (because it is ridiculous), a tear rolled out of my eye.

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## kelkel

> I was 3 or so weeks out on the treadmill and a commercial for IHOP came on...pancake after pancake, and while this will sound insanely ridiculous (because it is ridiculous), a tear rolled out of my eye.


That's funny.

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## BG

I had to change my route to my gym because I had to drive by burger king and i could smell it.

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## Roger11

I will be attempting 6% in the near future, i think i would have to drop to about 75kg as im around 105 now. Get excited thinking about how id look :P.

leanest i have been in 2 years is like 13% lol. Cant imagine 4. Fark haha.

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## Lifted1

> I was 3 or so weeks out on the treadmill and a commercial for IHOP came on...pancake after pancake, and while this will sound insanely ridiculous (because it is ridiculous), a tear rolled out of my eye.


i actually lol'd. that's some funny shit!!

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## zempey

I disagree with cocaine and meth helping get extra lean, I have done blow in the past and even when I was shredded I retained water like a water balloon. I realize this was probably a joking reference, but those drugs are horrible for water retention. I don't play around with that shite anymore, but when young and dumb, well, you know how it goes.

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## RigPig

> I disagree with cocaine and meth helping get extra lean, I have done blow in the past and even when I was shredded I retained water like a water balloon. I realize this was probably a joking reference, but those drugs are horrible for water retention. I don't play around with that shite anymore, but when young and dumb, well, you know how it goes.


100% I was kidding. I'd never seriously suggest using meth or anything else of the sort. Maybe that was a pretty tasteless joke I can understand that.

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## zempey

No not tasteless at all, I was just giving my experience in the past. People actually think the johnny crack diet will get them super lean, lol.

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## < <Samson> >

> I disagree with cocaine and meth helping get extra lean, I have done blow in the past and even when I was shredded I retained water like a water balloon. I realize this was probably a joking reference, but those drugs are horrible for water retention. I don't play around with that shite anymore, but when young and dumb, well, you know how it goes.



This is truth & factual information

It's just the way it is - people lose reason when they reach a certain point & will stop at nothing @ obtaining their goals


They are extreme stimulants and will make an EC stack seem like nothing

The questionabilty of the efficiency is not the problem or question, but it's the outcome. These are the most harsh and extreme stimulants - Now combined with the world of bodybuilding, you're screaming for true life shortening disaster.

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## hawk14dl

> based on all this experience, i think there's a distribution in what people can achieve 'naturally' like with muscle mass. 
> 
> i recently had an x-ray measurement of body fat and came in at 5.3%. i was surprised at how low i came in, but x-ray is supposedly the most accurate measure. 
> 
> i'm off cycle, on trt, 51, 6'2" and 225. diet is clean and carb poor. i workout almost every day with weights in the morning and cardio in the afternoon. it isn't easy, but it is sustainable for me. i'm having bw done in a month and will see if everything checks out.



I'd like to see pictures. 6'2 225 and 5.3% would be ridiculous

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## MIKE_XXL

There is a difference between being extra lean and water retention...all stimulants will increase metabolic rate and on top of that cause appetite suppression, how often do you see a guy strung out on coke at an all you can eat buffet...???...never...either way it is on the extreme side of "things to do" to get lean however it a very real part of this sport, either we like it or not....personally i do not like that aspect of the game but it does exist and will indeed help you get lean, to add to this people pick up smoking last few weeks before show, why? because nicotine is an appetite suppressant and increases metabolic rate by 3%...is it worth it, well depend who you ask...




> I disagree with cocaine and meth helping get extra lean, I have done blow in the past and even when I was shredded I retained water like a water balloon. I realize this was probably a joking reference, but those drugs are horrible for water retention. I don't play around with that shite anymore, but when young and dumb, well, you know how it goes.

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## BG

> There is a difference between being extra lean and water retention...all stimulants will increase metabolic rate and on top of that cause appetite suppression, how often do you see a guy strung out on coke at an all you can eat buffet...???...never...either way it is on the extreme side of "things to do" to get lean however it a very real part of this sport, either we like it or not....personally i do not like that aspect of the game but it does exist and will indeed help you get lean, to add to this people pick up smoking last few weeks before show, why? because nicotine is an appetite suppressant and increases metabolic rate by 3%...is it worth it, well depend who you ask...


I agree 100%

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## SOL!D5NAK3

the lowest i've been was 6.5% and btw natural. it was not that hard to reach it, it's just hard to keep it.being flat every day and looking like heavy meth users. so many people told me if i was addicted cuz my face looked like a zombie. but i really liked that looks and veins. i had no trouble sleeping and my mind was sound cuz i did it slowly and i did not had a deadline .

i think it's the length of the diet that determines the difficulty.when it's slow it's way easier.

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## Mp859

> the lowest i've been was 6.5% and btw natural. it was not that hard to reach it, it's just hard to keep it.being flat every day and looking like heavy meth users. so many people told me if i was addicted cuz my face looked like a zombie. but i really liked that looks and veins. i had no trouble sleeping and my mind was sound cuz i did it slowly and i did not had a deadline . i think it's the length of the diet that determines the difficulty.when it's slow it's way easier.


 I imagine you looked like a cancer patient if you cut to that body fat naturally.

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## MR-FQ320

Well I was going to say I thought Rec drug talk was banned on this board, but IF it is a real part of our sport then should it really be disallowed and let's have a proper conversation about it. Although this is the first I have heard of cocaine abuse at competition level, iv seen knuckle heads down town on it and just thought they were the moronic idiots giving steroids a bad name

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## Mp859

> Well I was going to say I thought Rec drug talk was banned on this board, but IF it is a real part of our sport then should it really be disallowed and let's have a proper conversation about it. Although this is the first I have heard of cocaine abuse at competition level, iv seen knuckle heads down town on it and just thought they were the moronic idiots giving steroids a bad name


 anything that will give you an edge at the pro level it will be done

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## < <Samson> >

I have read a lot of info on this subject & when I first came across it, I couldn't believe it. Then, after looking at the actual result of whatever the substance it made sense.


There is a very thin line between rec drug & this sport - period, who says otherwise is lying & lying to themselves


The "key" that I see is the true unhealthiness of whatever the substance. From running a mega ton of tren , to pumping ass loads of GH to using and extreme upper for appetite suppression. 


But, everything goes - After being around the juicer community for the last few years I have learned some factual shit that I would have never believed before.


There is no "proper"

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## Metalject

> I have read a lot of info on this subject & when I first came across it, I couldn't believe it. Then, after looking at the actual result of whatever the substance it made sense.
> 
> 
> There is a very thin line between rec drug & this sport - period, who says otherwise is lying & lying to themselves
> 
> 
> The "key" that I see is the true unhealthiness of whatever the substance. From running a mega ton of tren , to pumping ass loads of GH to using and extreme upper for appetite suppression. 
> 
> 
> ...


There's no such thing as "proper" when it comes to any sport and gaining an edge. All that matters is winning. In bodybuilding it's simply more in your face, that's the only difference.

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## MIKE_XXL

i agree with Metalject 100% when Kai Green walks in to the room it screams gear, when a professional billiards player comes in the same room no body questions him...however Androgen's will improve his braking power, concentration levels then he can also relay on beta blockers to keep calm and nootropics to improve the neurotransmitters activity and mind muscle connection, accuracy of his shot...the statistical data suggests that 97% of all professional athletes relay on some performance enhancing drugs...some just look more like it then others...sprinter vs distance runner...gymnast vs swimmer...i can go on and on and on on this topic...

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## MR-FQ320

> i agree with Metalject 100% when Kai Green walks in to the room it screams gear, when a professional billiards player comes in the same room no body questions him...however Androgen's will improve his braking power, concentration levels then he can also relay on beta blockers to keep calm and nootropics to improve the neurotransmitters activity and mind muscle connection, accuracy of his shot...the statistical data suggests that 97% of all professional athletes relay on some performance enhancing drugs...some just look more like it then others...sprinter vs distance runner...gymnast vs swimmer...i can go on and on and on on this topic...


 please do...

Are you saying that the relevant doping tests are not even being used ? 

It's kind of disheartening, especially in bodybuilding when it's clear everyone is using but cannot talk about it. It's like you got to be on something just to level the field

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## SOL!D5NAK3

> I imagine you looked like a cancer patient if you cut to that body fat naturally.




with clothes on it was bad, but when you are naked not so much. i actually miss that look  :Wink/Grin:

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## MIKE_XXL

Yeah thats the worst, look ohh so tinny with cloths on but without its another story as the cuts give muscle perception of depth and make a physique look bigger...i compete as a middle weight so i look like a little guy until i take my shirt off...lol...




> with clothes on it was bad, but when you are naked not so much. i actually miss that look

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## Haydenz

Im competing in march and im aiming to be about 6%, I did my first natural show 2 years ago and hit that exact number, so doing it unnatural should be easy enough,

its about timing your cardio man

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## gearbox

> thats funny when i first starting lifting i was super skinny and had 7% bf and when i started lifting it went down to 5.5%bf without even really trying but it didnt last long after a while it went back up. 
> being srs


pics to prove this?

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## Motardpdx

More of this^^^^ ha! Pretty funny but I can only imagine the temptation for food when 6-8% BF :Wink:

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