# MEMBERS EXPERIENCES > MEMBER'S CYCLE RESULTS >  TEST 400/ D-BOL. 1st cycle w/pics

## Skywalker727

Starting Stats. 4-27-10

Age- 21

Height- 6 ft.

Weight- 179-181

BF%- 10.4

Max Bench- 235

Weeks 1-12- Test 400 - 600 mg/week

Weeks 2-6 Dbol - 30 mg/day

ok i kno theres 100 other test/dbol cycles but i didnt want that to stop me from getting everyones advice and support. and this will keep me more accountable. 1st pin was monday in glute used a 25g1 that was given to me by supplier. went smooth . wedsnday morning i was feeling it though, a painful lump, im assuming thats normal. But today ( thur.) tried the oppisite thigh much easier to control and visibility etc etc but well see about the soreness. Startin Dbol next monday of week 2 cuz the test came alot sooner and i needed to start asap. plz giv advice and ask questions guys TY

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## Gaspari1255

How tall are you?

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## Skywalker727

starting pics guys.

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## Skywalker727

my bad-- im 6ft even

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## Gaspari1255

I think you could have gained a lot more naturally. However, the ship already set sail. Stick to 500mg/wk, or altleast one constanst dose. No reason to pyramid the test. Have a good PCT lined up and best of luck to you.

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## LiftedDuramax2007

I think you couldve gained more naturally too, whats your diet look like?

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## NVR2BIG1

RU ****ing kidding me? That cycle wont do shit, its evident you havent done shit in the eating/training dept as of now, cycle will be of no help. Not trying to be an ass, just honest

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## stevey_6t9

> RU ****ing kidding me? That cycle wont do shit, its evident you havent done shit in the eating/training dept as of now, cycle will be of no help. Not trying to be an ass, just honest


how wont that cycle do shit?

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## Skywalker727

yo i respect your opinions.. BUT i am an ectomorph body type. I have already come a long ways in the past 2 years of consistant Training. I will be doin this cycle the right way with that help of people that dont comment just to flame and run there mouths and you can hate on me at the end of it if you dont see considerable gains.. but guarantee im giving my 100 % ps feel free to hate more its MOTIVATION

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## nycap

dude this cycle is going to work as long as you work out hard. i guess the low dose is becuase its your first time. its understandable but you wont grow boobs and your hair wont fall out if you go a little harder.

i dont know what you trying accomplish but by looking at your pics id recomend a similar program: sustanon 2 shots monday and 2 shots thursday. 50mg dbol before every workout (5 times a week). do this for 6 weeks on and six weeks off until you get to where you want. and youll get there alot faster doing it this way. btw try getting the shot in deeper to avoid the lump.

best luck  :Smilie:

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## Gaspari1255

I have a hard time believing that you are 180lbs, unless your legs are stacked.... either way EAT your ass off on and off cycle.

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## Skywalker727

@ NYcap ty bro ill go deeper next time ( thats what he said lol )

@****** yea im actually 183 today.(been eating my ass off) legs are good size will try for pic But the upper body pics really dont do me justice. i realize they make me look small. ill have some more in a few weeks when i notice some gains and see what you guys think. thx for followin 

questions-- What size pin do you guys recomend? i will hav to go buy some before monday cuz the first 2 were given to me. they seemed ok to me but dont know if other size would be better. and i feel studid asking this but will the pharmacy sell them with no questions asked or do i need an explanation to buy?? obviously never bought them before.

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## oldschoolfitness

yeah u could have gained some more natural, but who knows how much? one of the best things you should take away from this cycle is the benefit of food and proper training/rest. your appetite will increase and u will see just how much the body needs whole foods compared to how much u are used to eating. so run the cycle enjoy it and work hard naturally before another. remember just because u got some gear does not mean u have to run it right away, save it and prepare for the next. i always like a 21-23ga. 1 1/2 inches for the glutes and 22-23ga. 1 inch for the delts. i have used 25ga. in delts and it helped reduce soreness, but some test is slow as hell to inject. hope this helps ya. good luck man post some results

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## NVR2BIG1

Your 6' tall, even as an ectomorph you could have achieved 200 lbs naturally, especially at that height. And to top it off, much more strength than a 235 bench press. I'm not trying to hate, not trying to discourage, and not trying to be rude about it. Steroids are not the answer in your situation

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## 6ft5

Agree w 500wk split. If its a 400 blend which it prob is. Look at the esters and use a split to bennifit from the prop. Prob eod. Or its kinda a waist cuz your T will go up and down the whole cycle. Also 50mg dbol split.. Good luck dude. And a late welcome..

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## 6ft5

And whyle you are on try and try and grow a bigger back and delts. cuz u look kinda narrow. No offence. You have narrow hips try and keep them lean and you will look great!

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## nycap

i always favor 1.5 inch 22 or 23 gauge pins but ill go down to 20 if i cant find that size easily. i find that that the sus takes too long to pull up and push through a 25 but it will be more comfortable if you have the patience. i get them at a walmart pharmacy (13 cents a piece) which is the cheapest, or ekcord, cvs, and target. in that order, target charges like 6 bucks for 10. just go to the phamacist and tell him/her what you want and theyll give them to you. they might check your id since your young so dont forget it. 

hope this helps, best luck  :Smilie:

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## JasonT

Post your diet....

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## Moosedog

again I think you could have and should have waited a bit but then again mate thats down to you... I will be checking your progress, eat like a maniac, 6, 7 or 8 times a day, get some whey protein to keep fuelled up all day long!

Good luck to you

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## Skywalker727

ok just got off work. and just ate until I felt sick. btw i will post diet later tonight but now im gonna run to walmart and get those new pins.. thanks for the advice guys. Straight up thats the reason i wanted to post. the forum community is awesome and a huge help and guidance through this. when i woke up my thigh was really fukin sore. nothing i cant handle. but with the new pins i will try the glute again making sure to go deeper this time. ps Im gonna eat more and more. yea i do need to build my back and delts. i feel my lats kind of lag. but im just gonna push myself harder and eat more. so no offense taken. thanks for the input everyone

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## Skywalker727

Sup guys, just got home from the gym hit shoulders and traps. Str was great. although i was limpin around the gym like a fukin cripple. thigh hurts sooo bad lol. I got new pins yesterday at walgreens 22g 1.5 inch so ill let you know how that size goes on monday. WEIGHT- jus weighed myself im 184. gain of 4 pounds , though i am aware this is primarily due to the fact that ive been eating like a mad man. how long do u guys think until i see the gains from the test?? and when you feel the effects stongly. im picking up 120 10 mg D bol tabs tonight i decided to up the daily intake to 40 mg. i will take 1 in the morning and 3 before work out. let me know what you guys think about that. 

Question - i know painful injections is a part of being on a cycle. but do you guys have any tips on preventing or caring for the pain?? heating pads? daily massage?? stretching?? plz give me the do's and donts.. as of now it hurts really bad to fully extend my leg. and to stretch quad is equally painful..

ALSO lower back was hurting last night is it possible that i hav some pumps already , or is most likely due to sumthing else? TY guys show some love

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## nycap

yeah these compounds can be very irritating especially the short ester ones. the only thing that helps me is to put the pin all the way in and make sure the site isnt being over used. if your still having problems try this: push the plunger down really really slow, like a quater of a ml per minute. no bullshit it takes like 5 minutes to put the shot in but when i use my quad its real easy in front of the tv with my leg on the coffee table. and then when you pull the needle out and put the pad or bandaid or whatever on gently push down and massage the injection site for a few minutes. the idea is to get the oil to disperse into the whole muscle and not sit in a little pool in there which makes it worse.

best luck  :Smilie:

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## NVR2BIG1

> ok just got off work. and just ate until I felt sick. btw i will post diet later tonight but now im gonna run to walmart and get those new pins.. thanks for the advice guys. Straight up thats the reason i wanted to post. the forum community is awesome and a huge help and guidance through this. when i woke up my thigh was really fukin sore. nothing i cant handle. but with the new pins i will try the glute again making sure to go deeper this time. ps Im gonna eat more and more. yea i do need to build my back and delts. i feel my lats kind of lag. but im just gonna push myself harder and eat more. so no offense taken. thanks for the input everyone


Now your on the right track, keep eating!

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## Skywalker727

ok guys. tue 6 am- 8 days in. i finally got my hands on the dbol sunday night. i got 100 25mg pills. ill be doin 50mg a day. i know thats high but i will do 25mg on days i dont work out. and im taking milk thistle and hawthorne berry liver protection. last night i worked chest and tri. Str was good and i also weighed myself. 187! 7 lbs already. ive been eating soo good im proud of myself. also Pinned my left glute yesterday with the new 22g. and ya there soo much bigger than the 25. but it really wasnt that bad. feeling the usual soreness. still have a good size lump in the other cheek from the first pin. goin away slowly tho.

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## thenextcutler

You really can't gain 7 lbs in 8 days... However you can bloat 7 lbs of water that quickly. 
Don't get me wrong yur gonna get big, just remember it takes a month or two even with test. And DBOL is notorious for water gain so don't let it go to yur head and end up ripping a tendon

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## Skywalker727

what would i do without comments like that? lol rip a tendon wtf 
BTW only been on dbol 1 day when i posted that. so ur suggesting i gained 7 lbs of water in 1 day?? and yea i kno its not dry gains. just stating that fact i gained 7 lbs dum ass. i just dont like comments that arent constructive in the least bit so go sumwhere else with that shit

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## 6ft5

I put on 13 in two weeks without gear. Not all muscle tho I wish! That's with am cardio 4 days wk and pm cardio 3days wk. Think its all the blood in my legs from walkin, runnin, stairs, and all. And I ate half a cake and everything I could find saturday. I probobly hit 10,000 cals that day. Oops. Good job keepn track and eatn!

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## thenextcutler

> what would i do without comments like that? lol rip a tendon wtf 
> BTW only been on dbol 1 day when i posted that. so ur suggesting i gained 7 lbs of water in 1 day?? and yea i kno its not dry gains. just stating that fact i gained 7 lbs dum ass. i just dont like comments that arent constructive in the least bit so go sumwhere else with that shit


Ok listen up
the dbol didn't make you gain water in a day, the test you were already on did. As for the tendons, injecting test prevents tendons from properly regenerating and many people, like my neighbor, become over zealous in there water bloated stated and end up with a tendon injury that lasts months.
You would know all of this IF you bothered to do any research before hand. How was what I said earlier not constructive again? Do you think I have nothing better to do than go online and insult strangers? You are obviously an egotistical child you should have saved the gear for a more mature year. And go ahead and respond and call me names again; defend and inflate your Internet-ego, I'm unsubscribing

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## Skywalker727

ok guys.. Its now been 2 weeks since i started. once again i started the test 1 week Earlier so ive only been on D-bol 1 full week now. yesterday at the gym i weighed in at 193. and ive already recieved several comments on looking bigger. So im staying right on track to keep up the progress im already making. Im doing my best to eat as much as possible. 

OK i Have a few questions once again.
As far as incections ive been switching around between by glutes and left quad.

My question is, once i find my most comfortable place to pin, Is it necessary to still try to alternate to other spots so i dont over do that spot?? will injecting too much in one spot possibly cause some sort of imbalance?? Or do you guys stick to the spot that works and ride it out??

And my other question is is it normal for my spine/ tailbone to become EXTREMELY sensitive and cause alot of pain, for a few days after injecting the glute. ps i think the next shot i will try my delt for the first time. see how that goes.

In a week or so ill post some new pics for you guys. help me track my progress as well.

HOLLA

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## Skywalker727

Anyone?>

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## Moosedog

Hi sky

I think its good to move your jabs around so less scar tissue builds up, it also gives that area time to rest and for all oils to disperse. So yes you can pin where you want mate, just makes more sense to move it around  :Smilie:

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## Moosedog

> And my other question is is it normal for my spine/ tailbone to become EXTREMELY sensitive and cause alot of pain, for a few days after injecting the glute. ps i think the next shot i will try my delt for the first time. see how that goes.


Not to sure regarding this one, sounds like the build up of the injection is causing the pain before it disperses as its disappearing after a few days. This may be due to the swelling pushing onto nerves in your lower back area. My mate had stinging and uncomfortable feelings after Primo enanthate 200mg/ml but they subsided after 48 hours also.

He also moved to delt

If any one else knows though please feel free to correct me

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## Skywalker727

WoW guys.. Just got home from the gym, and DAMN great fukin workout. I hit new records for chest and basically blew out my old records. 

Flat bench- hit 245 for 5 good reps
Incline - 80 lb dumbells for 6 very solid reps

didnt go really heavy on decline cuz i was pretty spent. 185 for 6 i think still about the highest ive done in a long time 
So this was the first time i can really say i felt the DBOL take me to a new lvl in strength. i was doubting the quality of what i have but now im pretty confident its good.

WEIGHT! weight was also a new personal best ever at 198 both at work earlier today and tonight after i lifted. so im pretty pumped right now just feels good to see these gains and im gonna push HARD for more and stay right on track. 

PS pinned the delt today for first time kinda uncomfortable but well see how it feels tommorrow peace

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## Skywalker727

here they are new pics after 1 month on. 

Starting weight --180

Current weight -- 200

what you guys think??? im pretty pumped about the gains so far.

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## Skywalker727

these are back obviously. 
I can say ive seen big gains in my Lats considering they have always been small 
What do you guys think?!

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## shortybrolick

I'm looking at your beggining pics and now these, Its noticeable you've made some gains. I'm a little over a month in my self and i guess i've made similar gains on the same cycle minus the Dbols...

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## Skywalker727

well though more people would comment on pics .. 

anyway off to the gym

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## 6ft5

Ill comment! Looken big dude 20lbs in 4wks pretty darn good. I bet u feel like a freak! Lol

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## 6ft5

And your back looks way better. I switch pins rotate boath glutes, delts, quads. Even tris sometimes. Keep it up you just got started.

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## JODAPU

Man, why do some guys have to be such jerks? Seriously, we are just trying to get info and some of you guys are breakin our balls. What is that about?

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## terraj

Good gains bro! 

Keep those cals up.

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## vaders4

Looking bigger! Wondering how much of it is water - how much is your strength up?

You seem to have a very small chest/back to begin with those before and after pics of your back you can see a huge difference.

What do you have planned for PCT? I honestly think you could have done a little more naturally but you've heard that so I'll save it  :Smilie: 

Keep posting pics and weight stats!

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## Skywalker727

thx 6ft5 im rotating between both glutes and quads now im also getting used to the pain and recovering from it faster.

terraj and vaders thx for the comments jus had a really rough week and the encouragement goes a long way. 

for PCT i have nolva and not sure if i wanna add clomid yet still have time to decide. what should i base the decision on? anything real specific other than the general info on clomid?

so i havnt made much gains this week. its been rough as far as my diet im sad to say but im gonna eat like crazy this week and try to make up for it 

Weight 202

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## vaders4

> thx 6ft5 im rotating between both glutes and quads now im also getting used to the pain and recovering from it faster.
> 
> terraj and vaders thx for the comments jus had a really rough week and the encouragement goes a long way. 
> 
> for PCT i have nolva and not sure if i wanna add clomid yet still have time to decide. what should i base the decision on? anything real specific other than the general info on clomid?
> 
> so i havnt made much gains this week. its been rough as far as my diet im sad to say but im gonna eat like crazy this week and try to make up for it 
> 
> Weight 202



Would you mind posting up your diet?

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## 6ft5

Rough times happen, don't stress to much. Every week is rough for me lmao!

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## Skywalker727

Ive been working alot past few days so havnt posted. but i have alot to tell you guys.

ill start by answering vaders and some1 earlier in the thread that asked me to post my diet. The truth is i dont hav a Set diet like most of you probably do. with work and the way my stomach is sometimes i have to make constant adjustments. BUT the plan i stick to is every 3 hours i eat a solid meal that i know consist of at least 35 grams of protein and plenty of good carbs. you guys think thats bad not to be completely specific on meals? or do some of you do something similar? 

GAINS-- im up to about 203-204 and liking what i see in the mirror. strength is through the roof so im killin it in the gym and enjoying each workout. 
I finally got my order of pins in the mail which makes life alot easier cuz i was having trouble every fukin time i went to the pharmacy. tried several and all gave me sh1t. im assuming my age was a factor but that wont be an issue anymore. got enough for 2 more cycles, lol. 

LOOK-now the bad news is, im almost positive im experiencing some gyno. my nipples have definately become sensitive and i feel like have become very puffy. and im pretty sure that i do feel the lump on both sides. ive thouroughly read C Binos post about gyno but i hav a few questions and hope you guys give suggestions.

Where would be the best place to get some Letro?
should i try nolva first?
and How detramental is taking these gonna be to my gains?
treating the gyno is a priority but i wanna know all i can about what its gonna do me.

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## oldschoolfitness

looks like you have made some nice gains bro. can't really help with the gyno thing but someone will get you pointed in the right direction. i may have missed it, but how many more weeks you got left?? just wondering because 20 lb weight increase is already job well done.

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## vaders4

I think run nolva 20mg ed until it subsides, then kick it down to 10mg. but dont quote me on that.

You're holding a lot of water, it's very easy to tell from your pics. I can see it very easily in your stomach/chest area the most.

Your nipples also look a little puffy. Are you running arimadex?

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## Matt

Most of your gains will be water weight and ive noticed that after several requests you still havnt posted your diet....

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## Skywalker727

yo its sunday morin and im about to go to the gym. thought i would check in first tho. 
@ 007 i guess you didnt read my post. i explained my diet in there. 
but im interested in feedback on that. is that a big mistake not having set meals? im eating a sh1t load and very clean protein and complex carbs it just changes day to day. like what meal at what time etc etc

So i definately have gyno. so ill ask 1 more time. what would be the best approach for me to take. try nolva? or get letro asap?

status: Starting week 6 monday. D/bol is finished. still injecting 600 mg of test 400 weekly. 

and im definately gonna put treating gyno my 1st priority? but just so im aware, cuz at the moment im very unclear to be honest. but im wanting to gain as much knowledge as possible. 

Does taking nolva to treat gyno really fuk up the cycle as far as gains and test lvls.. ? if some1 could xplain in depth or give me a helpful link it would be much appreciated. peace guys

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## vaders4

I'd start taking 10, even 20mg of nolva daily to combat the gyno.

Letro from what I understand will totally wipe out your estrogen levels and you don't want that. Maybe letro after cycle if you have some serious gyno issues (I've heard it can actually reverse gyno in some cases).

The fact that you don't have a "set diet" is a huge problem and is the main issue why you will not grow on or off cycle.

You should have 6 to 7 planned meals a day.

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## Skywalker727

Yo its Monday - start of week 6. weight is 204 so up 24 lbs. strength is crazy, appetite and focus have been good this week. I feel like im in the very best shape ive ever been, aside from the obvious weight increase. so im doin good. only problem is im definately experiencing gyno and im goin to start treating with nolva Tommorrow. Im posting this pic so you guys can judge my gains of course but it also shows the puffiness in my nipples. 

PS I WOULD LOVE SOME FEEDBACK. 

1ST DAY OF CYCLE VS TODAY START OF WEEK 6

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## vaders4

Hard to tell from your pics. Looks like you've gained quite a bit of water. Your nips don't look too bad. Get on nolva and see if that helps?

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## Colts18

Good work! Impressive gains, I had similar issues on a similar cycle and I took Nolva at 20mg ed and after about 8 -10 days everything was back to normal. Hope it works for you too.

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## Jahcuree

Hey bro, cool log. Please keep us updated as to retained gains after PCT.

Good Luck

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## breathemetal

Damn this makes me want to hit m 1st cycle soon

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## lovbyts

> Damn this makes me want to hit m 1st cycle soon


Why if anything it should show many that they are not ready.

You have made only mild gains. You still look small and you are probably a year away from being ready to do a cycle. You have a TON of room to grow naturally. Why try to cheat and get minimal gains when you can get more from a good diet and exercise then when you are ready to cycle have great results.

Stop being in a rush or you will just be another statistic soon who gave up after having some negative side effects and minimal gains. You will be much happier and will keep your gains if you eat right and grow naturally.

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## Matt

Im sorry it may just be me but i cant see much difference if any...

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## Matt

> Why if anything it should show many that they are not ready.
> 
> You have made only mild gains. You still look small and you are probably a year away from being ready to do a cycle. You have a TON of room to grow naturally. Why try to cheat and get minimal gains when you can get more from a good diet and exercise then when you are ready to cycle have great results.
> 
> Stop being in a rush or you will just be another statistic soon who gave up after having some negative side effects and minimal gains. You will be much happier and will keep your gains if you eat right and grow naturally.


I also agree 100% with this...

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## Skywalker727

@ 007 fuk u pusssy. i could care less that your fuking blind. your comments are so fuking useless to everyone. if you dont know, your a hater. plain and simple. 

so according to these tools my 25 lb gains is ALL WATER and my 50lb increase on bench is also nothing. im happy with my results and ive been busting my ass every day. see theres other people that may have thought i wasnt ready , which may be true. but they didnt come on this thread and just talk shit they gave advice and encouragement. you guys dont know about that. probly never will. if i made a mistake than i made a mistake, quit tryin to sound like your super smart by pointing it out continually. go fuk yourself. now come talk some more shit, i kno you cant resist thats fine. but im still gettin big your not stoppin that.

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## MallmannStos

> what would i do without comments like that? lol rip a tendon wtf 
> BTW only been on dbol 1 day when i posted that. so ur suggesting i gained 7 lbs of water in 1 day?? and yea i kno its not dry gains. just stating that fact i gained 7 lbs dum ass. i just dont like comments that arent constructive in the least bit so go sumwhere else with that shit






> Man, why do some guys have to be such jerks? Seriously, we are just trying to get info and some of you guys are breakin our balls. What is that about?


OMG i so loled now  :1laugh:

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## CanYouDigIt

This is almost depressing, you started a cycle without ever going to the gym, what can I say?

you got a little definition in your pecs, and water weight on your abs, with that body you should be able to see huge transformation if you would be dieting strictly and if you had a semi decent workout routine. 

so there goes few hundred bucks down the toilet!~ gratz I guess and GL?

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## Skywalker727

Im done arguin with ignorant people 

for the ones talking all this shit.. PLZ post your transformation pics

i got some balls and these are mine. 

@CanYouDigIt i obviously have a terrible diet and never have gone to the gym you just know it all dont you. your a dum ass.

@007 you dont see any difference? your an idiot. show me your pics 

@lovbyts i think you look terrible in your pics. my opinion. now fuk off

OK for all who are supportive and interested in my progress Thank you very much. im doing the best i can with what i have. im learning everyday too, alot thx to some of you who actually help people on here.

STATUS- Weight is 206 today. and i feel really good. Eating as i post this. =) 

new 1 rep max on bench is 285. 50 lbs up. and i havnt maxed out on legs but i am noticing some extremely noticable increases in STR and size.

PS: AND im not even done yet, still 5 more weeks of cycle let me remind you. So PLZ no more hate. "CONSTRUCTIVE" Criticism AND support is greatly appreciated

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## MallmannStos

I think you could wait a little to construct more natural muscle mass before entering in AAS, (as im doing) but i respect your decision in use it
The numbers dont lie, 25lbs of body weight and plus 50lbs more on the bench press is expressive, sou you can already consider this cicle a sucess, even if this gains could be earned naturaly, probably would take 2 years or so, i think you could wait but again i respect your choice
The really funny part is, all people that is hating you have pics of pro-bbs in their avatar and none of themselves and are probably skinny guys hiding behind a PC, and a lot or guys who really are big like terraj are in fact suporting you  :Nutkick:

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## bjpennnn

> I think you could wait a little to construct more natural muscle mass before entering in AAS, (as im doing) but i respect your decision in use it
> The numbers dont lie, 25lbs of body weight and plus 50lbs more on the bench press is expressive, sou you can already consider this cicle a sucess, even if this gains could be earned naturaly, probably would take 2 years or so, i think you could wait but again i respect your choice
> _The really funny part is, all people that is hating you have pics of pro-bbs in their avatar and none of themselves and are probably skinny guys hiding behind a PC, and a lot or guys who really are big like terraj are in fact suporting you_


_
_
that is definitely not the case. this good looks like veal he looks soft and way underdeveloped i dont see any cuts. lets see pic 6 weeks after cycle endss and stats.

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## Skywalker727

@MallmannStos thx for stating ur opinion in a intellegent way. your right I could have waited longer and built more naturally, But i didnt so i dont know why people are losing there minds over it. and what you said about the whole avatar thing is right on point lol.

k guys update for today would be that my gyno seems to be subsiding from running nolva. its definately not progressing, so that is good news. ill keep you updated.

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## lexmark

looking good 
deffo notice obveous size difference

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## vaders4

Confused as to why you posted a pic way before you started the cycle? 

It's obvious the 1st photo is very old, you cropped the date and that tattoo isn't even finished.

In the other pics the tattoo is complete (and has been for quite some time).

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## ghettoboyd

> Why if anything it should show many that they are not ready.
> 
> You have made only mild gains. You still look small and you are probably a year away from being ready to do a cycle. You have a TON of room to grow naturally. Why try to cheat and get minimal gains when you can get more from a good diet and exercise then when you are ready to cycle have great results.
> 
> Stop being in a rush or you will just be another statistic soon who gave up after having some negative side effects and minimal gains. You will be much happier and will keep your gains if you eat right and grow naturally.


i agree with this 100%...yea yea fuk me i know what your gonna say but come on man you didnt even have a base of muscle to improve on....this is definetly an example of what not to do....

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## ghettoboyd

> I think you could wait a little to construct more natural muscle mass before entering in AAS, (as im doing) but i respect your decision in use it
> The numbers dont lie, 25lbs of body weight and plus 50lbs more on the bench press is expressive, sou you can already consider this cicle a sucess, even if this gains could be earned naturaly, probably would take 2 years or so, i think you could wait but again i respect your choice
> The really funny part is, all people that is hating you have pics of pro-bbs in their avatar and none of themselves and are probably skinny guys hiding behind a PC, and a lot or guys who really are big like terraj are in fact suporting you


yea its all not so impressive when you start from nothing...any gains will look huge....whatever happened to working for it?....imagine if you had a decent base of muscle from wich to build uppon?...

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## Matt

> @ *007 fuk u pusssy. i could care less that your fuking blind. your comments are so fuking useless to everyone. if you dont know, your a hater. plain and simple*. 
> 
> so according to these tools my 25 lb gains is ALL WATER and my 50lb increase on bench is also nothing. im happy with my results and ive been busting my ass every day. see theres other people that may have thought i wasnt ready , which may be true. but they didnt come on this thread and just talk shit they gave advice and encouragement. you guys dont know about that. probly never will. if i made a mistake than i made a mistake, quit tryin to sound like your super smart by pointing it out continually. go fuk yourself. now come talk some more shit, i kno you cant resist thats fine. but im still gettin big your not stoppin that.


Lets cool it there, you've posted your pictures for critique and ive given my opinion, at no point have i been abusive towards you..

I would strongly suggest you read the board rules again before posting..

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## layeazy

lol good work mate i would definately priortise on the back though dude

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## Skywalker727

sup guys. wieght is staying steady at 206-208 str is still increasing every week. need to eat more so im gonna up my cals this week. i wanted to stay somewhat lean during the cycle but im gonna go ahead and bulk as much as i possibly can until end of cycle. 

regarding the pics i posted. i never said the first pic was at beginning of cycle. sorry for the misunderstanding, i never cropped the date. i was really annoyed that some people feel like they know my life. stating i had no decent diet and never stepped into a gym. when that statement is just ridiculous when anyone looks at my pics its obvious i am working hard. and made vast improvements 

just to settle this "hopefully" once and for all. I WAS NOT READY FOR THIS CYCLE.
and i dont think im big. but i did the cycle anyway guys. so no point in telling me i look like sh1t or that i wasnt ready. ok your right. now im just doing the best i can from where im at today. 

but in some defense- i will say. i NEVER pump myself up before pics like many people do. i just take them cold not tryin to impress any1. and IM HAPPY with my gains and what i look like now. Im an Ectomorph body type obviously. so not everyone is gonna be a monster before they do there first cyle. but i will admit i could have waited longer. and gained more naturally. thx guys and if u were negative it motivated me. so its all good.

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## lovbyts

> sup guys. wieght is staying steady at 206-208 str is still increasing every week. need to eat more so im gonna up my cals this week. i wanted to stay somewhat lean during the cycle but im gonna go ahead and bulk as much as i possibly can until end of cycle. 
> 
> regarding the pics i posted. i never said the first pic was at beginning of cycle. sorry for the misunderstanding, i never cropped the date. i was really annoyed that some people feel like they know my life. stating i had no decent diet and never stepped into a gym. when that statement is just ridiculous when anyone looks at my pics its obvious i am working hard. and made vast improvements 
> 
> just to settle this "hopefully" once and for all. I WAS NOT READY FOR THIS CYCLE.
> and i dont think im big. but i did the cycle anyway guys. so no point in telling me i look like sh1t or that i wasnt ready. ok your right. now im just doing the best i can from where im at today. 
> 
> but in some defense- i will say. i NEVER pump myself up before pics like many people do. i just take them cold not tryin to impress any1. and IM HAPPY with my gains and what i look like now. Im an Ectomorph body type obviously. so not everyone is gonna be a monster before they do there first cyle. but i will admit i could have waited longer. and gained more naturally. thx guys and if u were negative it motivated me. so its all good.


So after busting everyone elses balls for giving you honest feedback when YOU asked for it and now admitting you where not ready for the cycle; whats up with that? Sounds like my 4yr old. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

You are doing the same thing you are accusing other of, acting like you know them or their background now. Personally I have NEVER pumped up for a picture and pretty much the only time I even have flexed or do flexing is for the few pictures I have taken to see the change over the past couple years.

Hopefully you have learned something and you will add to your base now before doing another cycle like suggested from most. Personally I think I was pretty good about not just ripping into you and only saying what I think you needed to do or should have done.

I dont think Im huge either in any way but I have had a lot of improvement over the last 2 years due mostly to diet change and being in the gym 4-5x a week consistently for over 2 years now. In another 2 years I plan on having some GOOD size.... No short term goals. Short term gains/goals mean long term looses.

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## vaders4

No more updates?

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## Mar-Vell

I think he gave up the log because of the haters

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## playamade

why would you start that cycle without an ai?

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## lovex

> I think he gave up the log because of the haters


Too sad it happens often in this great forum..admins, mods r least bothered to take action on haters...I didnt see they will ever care about this problem...

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## sean_holland

Personally I don't see what these guys were doing as hate. They were giving valid advice, from a knowledgeable perspective to someone WHO ASKED FOR IT. If you wanna jump off a bridge, then do it, if you ask people if you should they are gonna advise against it.

This guy clearly wasn't ready, and didn't wanna take any criticism that came with his lack of preparation. Those are the people who give gear a bad name. They use it improperly, or without a good diet, or without a PCT or etc etc and then everyone that they know personally see's the results, or worse yet the side effects and hence the stigma continues. All because some no-mind jumped into the deep end without learning how to swim.

If you wanna be stupid, and then be an abusive dick to those who try and advise you the right way, even if that way isn't what you 'want to hear' then you get what's coming to you. In this case...a lot of knowledgeable people are having a good laugh at his ignorant expense.

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## ghettoboyd

> Personally I don't see what these guys were doing as hate. They were giving valid advice, from a knowledgeable perspective to someone WHO ASKED FOR IT. If you wanna jump off a bridge, then do it, if you ask people if you should they are gonna advise against it.
> 
> This guy clearly wasn't ready, and didn't wanna take any criticism that came with his lack of preparation. Those are the people who give gear a bad name. They use it improperly, or without a good diet, or without a PCT or etc etc and then everyone that they know personally see's the results, or worse yet the side effects and hence the stigma continues. All because some no-mind jumped into the deep end without learning how to swim.
> 
> If you wanna be stupid, and then be an abusive dick to those who try and advise you the right way, even if that way isn't what you 'want to hear' then you get what's coming to you. In this case...a lot of knowledgeable people are having a good laugh at his ignorant expense.


very well said bro i agree 100%...

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## GatorNica

> very well said bro i agree 100%...


Excelllent.. X2

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## will_work

i know ppl that run test & dbol 30 40 mg every day all day.. some times they will take a week off but then back on the d and test

i think there the test is probably 300mg every monday.. then 400mg 4 weeks then 500mg 3 weeks then back down to 200mg for 5 weeks
then its repeated.. 
kinda crazy but these dudes are so fucxin big

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## Virturam

I'll add my two cents here.

Im currently in school studying dietetics, and i cant tell you how much a solid diet vastly improves your gains. And im not talkin about "ok i eat this i eat that.. good carbs blah blah" im talkin a GOOD set, solid diet. You shouldnt be guessing, you should know how many cals/pro/carbs and even sometimes vitamins, if you know their added effects, you're taking in. If you're not on a cycle and youre kinda iffy you can make it up, but during a cycle and after it comes in to play big time. The difference is night and day. Of course you probably realize that but havnt put it into action. Im a little concerned for you only because if you do not have a set/solid diet going in to PCT you're really gonna screw yourself. Thats when you're the weakest and you need to feed your body right or you'll lose damn near all your gains and there goes all that work for nothing. Keep in mind as well, you've got 20+ more pounds now, and you have to keep up the cals to support that new found weight, if you dont, as you know, you'll be burning cals and eventually lose it. Sooner rather than later when it comes to steroids if you dont PCT correctly.

I cant type out exactly what i think you should have nutrition wise, but i'll give you a few formulas that will atleast point you to the general area you need to be in when it comes to caloric needs. Im going to give you the EER(estimated energy requirements) forumla, and the BMR(basal metabolic rate). The EER is used to estimate your caloric needs given age, weight, height, and activity. But its ESTIMATED, so you could vary anywhere from needing 400 more cals plus or minus the calculation, take me for instance.. i seem to vary up to 600 cals positive. So by my EER i should have, in the past year, gained 62lbs.. but i havnt. It all depends on diet, im 600 cals positive but its all good cals, and my body uses that shit up and doesnt store fat.

The BMR will tell you pretty damn closely how many calories it takes just to run your body, i.e breathing, closing your eyelids, rasing your arms, metabolic needs, keeping your body warm, homeostasis etc etc. I like the BMR because if you know exactly how many cals it takes to run your body then you know about how many more you need to eat to remain constant or to gain/lose weight. Also keep in mind it takes 3500cals (over and above your BMR) to = 1lb of body weight.. or body fat so watch it.

EER = 662 - ( 9.53 * age ) + PA * (15.91 * WT+539.6*HT)

HT=height
WT=weight
PA=physical activity
For PA plug in wh at you think you are.

1.00 - sedentary | 1.11 - Low Active | 1.25 - Active

BMR = 66 + (6.23 * weight) + ( 12.7 * height in inches) - (6.8 x age)

I hope this helps, even if you think your "diet" right now is ok, you just wait till you start PCT then you'll understand how screwed you are man.. You need to get on top of this diet thing ASAP before you PCT. Be a sponge, search this site for diets people have used, scoure the internet man. Like i said, if you dont go into PCT with a solid diet its all for nothing. Also, just fyi alot of guys wanna pound loads of protein and dont realize your body can turn that into fat as well if its got an excess, and if you do it long enough your body will recognize protein/muscle as an energy source and attack your muscle.. that normally doesnt happen until youve been starving for a week, but if you pound heavy amounts its possible, however that might be upwards of 500-600g daily in a person that only weighs 180lbs. My general rule of thumb is no more than 1.4g per 1lb of body weight. However some people would disagree and say upwards of 2.2g is ok, so its all in who you talk to and what you personally feel works best for you. My books say all thats needed is 0.48 - 0.68g per pound no matter how heavy you workout, but i dont buy it. Personally i go 1.1g per pound, you might want a little more during PCT though. Also remember the EER and BMR are only to guide you so you can get your cals the closest to right as you can, but if you dont eat good you'll just pack on fat. Good luck man. And dont worry about people hatin on you saying you're not getting your max gains, its your first cycle, you learn ya know. You cant be expected to come outta the gate a golden god. I think sometimes the veterans and people who read alot that think they are veterans forget when they first started out and what it was like.

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## Virturam

PS. Another thing, some of these guys act like you should know EVERYTHING before you go into a cycle, and i do strongly agree with that, to an extent. You do need to know what you're injecting into your body, your routine, diet, and all the correct PCT protocol. I dont argue that. But i've been on this site reading for 5 months and im still learning things daily, not to mention my previous experience. So to expect someone to know 100% to the T without having to ask one questions is a little obsurd in my opinion.

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## wharton

> Im sorry it may just be me but i cant see much difference if any...


I agree with this post, All i see is water and nitrogen retention, as soon as you come off cycle it will all go away again. In my opinion this entire thread is a joke, even the early pic with the date cropped had me thinking that you were a troll but turns out to be just another boy without the proper knowledge to gain mass, If you had taken the time to learn how to eat and train first you wouldnt even need steds at your size you wold gain anyway. Frustraiting how people take this siht without even learning the basics





> This is almost depressing, you started a cycle without ever going to the gym, what can I say?
> 
> you got a little definition in your pecs, and water weight on your abs, with that body you should be able to see huge transformation if you would be dieting strictly and if you had a semi decent workout routine. 
> 
> so there goes few hundred bucks down the toilet!~ gratz I guess and GL?


X2





> I think you could wait a little to construct more natural muscle mass before entering in AAS, (as im doing) but i respect your decision in use it
> The numbers dont lie, 25lbs of body weight and plus 50lbs more on the bench press is expressive, sou you can already consider this cicle a sucess, even if this gains could be earned naturaly, probably would take 2 years or so, i think you could wait but again i respect your choice
> The really funny part is, all people that is hating you have pics of pro-bbs in their avatar and none of themselves and are probably skinny guys hiding behind a PC, and a lot or guys who really are big like terraj are in fact suporting you


Well thats me in my avy and I aint suporting him so you can scratch that comment. the numbers dont lie... dont make me laugh its obvious the first pic is out dated, i would go as far to say i think the 2 other pics are the before and after with a gain of about 10lb of water.

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## Virturam

Wharton is stacked :P I've been training off and on for 7 years now, currently 5'10, 180, i've been to 205 naturally before, took a cycle of test-p a long time ago, got to 225, maintained at 208ish for the longest time, then decided to cut a bunch of weight. Just maintaining at 180.

However i plan on starting another cycle in about 7-9 months depending on how solid i feel my foundation is. i'd like to go to 190 before starting, but even then it'll be a test dose only. But ya a better foundation woulda been good for sure, if hes 6'2, 180 is tiny.. and all this eco morpho gama tango cash might be true but with deit you'll knock that crap outta the park.

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## RussellB

Yea its a old story and yea I'm a new member and i try to read as much as I can to gain info..this was really going good until certain jerkoffs had to discourage the kid from continuing with his story..it's guys like you that I just wanna smack in the head and hope you have something to say afterwards.

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