# MEMBERS EXPERIENCES > MEMBER'S CYCLE RESULTS >  Twelve weeks Test-e + Dbol kickstart - I came I saw I conquered. 10/1/11 => 15/05/11.

## flexandex

I will use this thread as my diary to document everything cycle related over the next 12 weeks. I plan to be extremely fastidious in my documentation of my cycle/PCT and will post updates at the bare minimum of every injection day. My confirmed start date is the 10th of januarary and i have everything i need down to the last alcohol swab.

Thread guidelines i would apreciate if people could follow :

-I welcome criticism if it is in a constructive form; i would ask that this thread is not cluttered with posts qouting my age and explaining i am not ready. I have made a calculated decision; perhaps i will regret it in 10years, or even 10months but i like to think that you should "Never regret anything, because at one time, it was the *exactly* what you wanted". I feel as though the effort i put into planning and researching i atleast deserve a fair go, albiet my age.
-No sources/price discussion as per board rules.
(only two, thats not bad is it?) 

*Cycle:*
week 1-12 Test-E 250mg Bi-weekly
week 1-2 Dbol 25mg ED
week 2-4 Dbol 35mg ED

week 2-12 HCG 250IU 2x PW
week 1-12 Arimidex 0.25 EOD

*Pheedno PCT*
week 14-18 Clomid 100mg ED
week 14-18 Nolva 20mg ED

_I would like to add these dosages could morph and change at any time dependant on different situations that arise.
_
*Stats:* 
19 Y/O.
172 Lbs.
7.8% BF (bodpod acredited).
2 1/2 years training.
5'10.

Heres an excel outline i drew up quickly to detail my cycle progression:




I'd also love to get a few discussions going with others who are cycling along at the same time as i do  :Smilie: . Glad to have ya'll along for the ride!
Any tips, encouragement and words of advice would be greatly apreciated.


P.S. Everything in this thread is for entertainment purposes only and is a fictional work of my imagination.

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## flexandex

I will be following a basic 6day split over the course of my cycle with a core exercise incorporated in every workout and other additional exercises i will chop and change throughout.

*Chest*
Flat bench press 4-6
Incline dumbell press 4-6
Incline cable flys 8-12
Pec dec 8-12

*Back*
Weighted Pullups 10-12
Seated row 8-12
Closegrip lat pulldown 8-12
Deadlift 4-6

*Shoulders*
Seated Dumbell press 4-6
Reverse shoulder press 4-6
Front raise / Lateral raise superset 8-12
Rear delt pec dec 8-12

*Legs*
Olympic squats 4-6
Leg press 4-6
Leg extention 8-12
Lying leg curls 8-12

*Arms*
Barbell curl 4-6
dumbell curl 8-12
hammer rope curl 8-12

Seated tricep extention 4-6
Rope pulldown 8-12
tricep extention machine 8-12

*Traps/calves*
Closegrip smith machine shrugs 8-12
Widegrip smith machine shrugs 15-20

Standing calve raise 4-6
Leg press calve extention 15-20

I have a fairly basic diet consisting of normal healthy foods, i will probably consume some junk along the way but more often than not it will fit into my daily macros

Protein: 300
Carbs: 400
Lipids: 80
Total cals: 3500.
I'll adjust this higher if i don't feel im getting enough nutrition.

I'll post my first pin update on the 10th, pretty excited!!!

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## ls1 fd3s

nice write up, but i cant help but chuckle everytime i see a thread like this and its an underweight TEENAGER, let alone a guy under 25... :Icon Rolleyes:

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## flexandex

For the record ls1 fd3s, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.




> Some quick stats
> 28 years old
> 5'9"
> 181lbs
> 12% BF off a guess


When you are finished your cut if you manage to get to my BF level you will be around my weight; and ready to start your cycle, do you consider yourself underweight also?

170 @ 5'10 shredded is a very solid base, IMO.
my waist tonight was 29 2/8", while my arms sit at a hair over 16" (flexed)
The problem with people parroting weight levels is that everyone has different bone structures, heights, muscle bellies, frames.. not to mention goals!

You're right, i could probably squeeze another 5-10lbs out of my frame but alas, im no angel.

I'm not going to put up any pics of myself so i can maintain privacy but heres a guy whos 5'10 and around 175 IRRC. Says hes 5% in this pic and i wouldn't argue that too far..

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## lankykid234

lol chestbrahh isn't the best example to use brah, he's ran a couple cycles already. Besides, if you read his formspring, he really discourages steroid use in teens.

Good luck with the cycle though! I'll be following

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## flexandex

> lol chestbrahh isn't the best example to use brah, he's ran a couple cycles already. Besides, if you read his formspring, he really discourages steroid use in teens.
> 
> Good luck with the cycle though! I'll be following


Yeahh, i know haha. Just details the point that 'weight' is really not all that important past a certain level.

mhm i am too young, hopefully i'll be one of the lucky ones.

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## lankykid234

I think zyzz started at 19, so hopefully things will turn out like him

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## Matt

Wow, i guess we will be seeing you in the HRT forum soon.....

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## bodybuilder

> Wow, i guess we will be seeing you in the HRT forum soon.....


X2 what is it with all these youngster jumping into AAS without knowing wtf they are doing to themselves.

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## stevey_6t9

OP post some pics up, just edit your face out.

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## flexandex

> Wow, i guess we will be seeing you in the HRT forum soon.....


I'm taking a calculated risk. You can quote stories where a teen has ruined their test production for life; and i can quote stories where a teen has run 8week Prohormone cycle with zero PCT and come out healthy as ever.

I'd rather not clutter my log with this arguement, if its all the same to you.. When i post my hormone panel 8 weeks post-cycle; either my gamble will pay off, or you will be proved right. i'd assume you'd be happy to be proved wrong.
Please feel free to PM me if you want to have a discussion where other teens, less prepared, don't find encouragement.



> X2 what is it with all these youngster jumping into AAS without knowing wtf they are doing to themselves.


I know exactly what the fuk i am doing to myself, if you want to actually discuss this with me; shoot me a PM, i'm really trying not to clutter the log with a debate about AAS ethics.



> OP post some pics up, just edit your face out.


I would man but unfortunately i have an easily distinguishable tattoo. If / when my AAS use comes out, i'll be more than willing to post my progress pictures. 
I'll be taking a set of the mandatory poses every injection day. Should make for a pretty cool slide show.
Would be great to have you following my thread man, where you at in syd?

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## NOVA718

Flex I can tell you are a really sharp guy, I can certainly see you are a detailed individual as well..lol. But everyone here is just wanting to look out for ya. I think whats trying to be conveyed is that at 19 you still have some time for more natural growth. From your stats it sounds like you already have a pretty good base. Look at it this way on average your typical man reaches his peak sexual development by about age 20.From then on you see an average decline in testosterone of 1% per year. So by age 35 testosterone levels decline by around 15% and by age 55 levels will have dropped by as much as 35%. So your body is still going through some changes. What I suggest is just take your time bro, educate yourself even more so than you already have about the culture of this sport, continue to eat and train hard and then reap the rewards of success!! Regardless of your decision there is a ton a great individuals here that have a mulitude of experience and knowledge that can be provided if so asked and that have journeyed down your path. Best of luck bro and remember its no rush you got time....but support is here if you need it.

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## stevey_6t9

> I would man but unfortunately i have an easily distinguishable tattoo. If / when my AAS use comes out, i'll be more than willing to post my progress pictures. 
> I'll be taking a set of the mandatory poses every injection day. Should make for a pretty cool slide show.
> Would be great to have you following my thread man, where you at in syd?


you can edit the tatt out too, im somewhere in syd lol, like you i also prefer to stay anonymous.

im your age too, though 40lbs heavier, however cycling does have a risk... i turned out ok after my cycle, though i do have buddies who got the bad end of the stick, its basically luck... end of the day your an adult and you can make your own decision so i hope everything turns out ok for ya...also dont expect to like look supaturk and iron curtis overnight... they have accounts on here too, one has done over 5 cycles. goodluck man

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## flexandex

> you can edit the tatt out too, im somewhere in syd lol, like you i also prefer to stay anonymous.
> 
> im your age too, though 40lbs heavier, however cycling does have a risk... i turned out ok after my cycle, though i do have buddies who got the bad end of the stick, its basically luck... end of the day your an adult and you can make your own decision so i hope everything turns out ok for ya...also dont expect to like look supaturk and iron curtis overnight... they have accounts on here too, one has done over 5 cycles. goodluck man


Hahaha, yeah, but then theres a big blank spot exactly where my tatt should be. 

Cool man, yeah i've been a sloppy 205 before, probably 17-20% BF. Just started out and didn't realize the importance of quality mass. So i just packed on the weight, went by the scale etc. was cool while it lasted, but i feel alot better at this BF! Everyone disagrees with me but i honestly believe weight is just about fking worthless as a measurement. There are far too many variables for it to be accurate. I look bigger than alot of 190lb guys. 
I don't hold expectations due to things that have happened in my past, with no expectations everything is a bonus. I live a much happier life this way. With that said, my planned end weight after this cycle is around 185-195 @ 10-12%. Because of my small frame/joints(6 2/8inch wrists etc), i should appear pretty big.
One day supaturk will want to look like me; thats the plan anyway! haha\

p.s. ironcurtis claims natty, lawl.

This is what i'll be using so that you guys can track my progress; its not as good as pics, but its close!








> Flex I can tell you are a really sharp guy, I can certainly see you are a detailed individual as well..lol. But everyone here is just wanting to look out for ya. I think whats trying to be conveyed is that at 19 you still have some time for more natural growth. From your stats it sounds like you already have a pretty good base. Look at it this way on average your typical man reaches his peak sexual development by about age 20.From then on you see an average decline in testosterone of 1% per year. So by age 35 testosterone levels decline by around 15% and by age 55 levels will have dropped by as much as 35%. So your body is still going through some changes. What I suggest is just take your time bro, educate yourself even more so than you already have about the culture of this sport, continue to eat and train hard and then reap the rewards of success!! Regardless of your decision there is a ton a great individuals here that have a mulitude of experience and knowledge that can be provided if so asked and that have journeyed down your path. Best of luck bro and remember its no rush you got time....but support is here if you need it.


Cheers for the support man, i understand what you're saying and i apreciate you took the time to convey it in a constructive manner, as opposed to lol too young 'insert snide comment here'. (i.e. Wow, i guess we will be seeing you in the HRT forum soon..... ) :S

Yeah i wouldn't be in a position to start this cycle without this site; thats why i've decided to make my diary/log public. I don't think theres been a teen who has actually made an intensive cycle log. 
The other steroid sites out there are honestly a fu/cking joke. Full of idiots and misinfomation, even the mods are parrots. Bet they couldnt name the half-life of dbol haha.

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## notsureifsrs

You sound more educated and smarter than most of the people that start using gear around here, also your cycle looks very solid.
so good luck! and keep us updated  :Smilie:

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## CMB

Wow! very impressive log. I wish you the best of luck with everything in this cycle buddy. I will be following.

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## DBolNoob

Hey man good luck with this cycle, i was thinking of starting my first cycle at the end of jan!
im also 'young' but, like yourself im not jumping into anything i dont know about, i also know the calculated risks, but people dont die 
from steroid use , they die from steroid abuse ! FACT!

you seem to know what your doing so i wish you lots of luck.

im deffinatly goin to be following this to see how it goes for ya!

Peace

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## Bonaparte

Where are you from? Because most English speakers record dates as MM/DD/YY.
And you're going to be keeping this log for 5 months?

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## scrunnyronnie

Hopefully you got what you were looking for in the cycle, but 19yrs old is kinda young.

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## flexandex

> You sound more educated and smarter than most of the people that start using gear around here, also your cycle looks very solid.
> so good luck! and keep us updated


Cheers mate, glad to have you along!



> Wow! very impressive log. I wish you the best of luck with everything in this cycle buddy. I will be following.


 The more the merrier!



> Hey man good luck with this cycle, i was thinking of starting my first cycle at the end of jan!
> im also 'young' but, like yourself im not jumping into anything i dont know about, i also know the calculated risks, but people dont die 
> from steroid use , they die from steroid abuse ! FACT!
> 
> you seem to know what your doing so i wish you lots of luck.
> 
> im deffinatly goin to be following this to see how it goes for ya!
> 
> Peace


Hey bro thanks for the support, is shot you a PM, hit me back on there.




> Where are you from? Because most English speakers record dates as MM/DD/YY.
> And you're going to be keeping this log for 5 months?


ohh you detective you!
I'll be keeping my log for the whole process, ie,
steroids 1-12
break 12-14
PCT 14-18
Recovery/maintaining gains 18-22
Argueably the last 8weeks are more important to log than the first 12  :Smilie: 




> Hopefully you got what you were looking for in the cycle, but 19yrs old is kinda young.


I feel as though the risk/reward ratio is right for me, due to the immense preparation i've put into this.
I think this log needs to be done - but if i motivate any other young, ill prepared members to take on their oral only cycles, or anything else when they aren't ready - i'll feel bad about it..

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## flexandex

*holyyyyy mosesssss...*

so pinning doesnt even hurt?
Drew with a 23 gauge 1.5inch, discarded iniatial needle and repalced with a fresh one.

Pinned upper left glute with a sharp jab motion, injected the oil slowly, little bit of discomfort, but ZERO pain.
Absolutely easy experience.

Bout to drop my 15mg DBOL before gym and head off for a chest workout, i'll let you all know how it goes!!!!

IM ON MY WAY!!

*Training:*
Right, had a brilliant chest workout in the afternoon. Great pump and everything went swimingly, felt increased agresion, not sure if it was placebo though.
Then i went in later on at 7:30 to do triceps, by this point i had taken my 30MG dbol and i deffinitely got a pump that was out of the ordinary, it was almost hard to workout with my tris being so "full".
I felt like it was harder to get to the pain barrier, deffinitely a brilliant workout though.
Feeling great so far, a mild feeling of euphoria, but thats probably just because i'm so happy i've got started.
all in all a great day!!

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## flexandex

OK people i've hit my first roadbumb, need that support.

Its now 2days since my first pin, at first the glute was not sore at all. Zero pain.
It became a lil tender over the last few days, well before i went to bed tonight i gave it a bit of a massage because it looked kinda swollen and was a bit sore.

I woke up 2hours later and the pain is rather intense. Deffinitely can't sleep through it, and any movement of leg causes more pain.
A bit worried, what is this?! haha.

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## Necrosaro

Uggg I have little respect to people who do steroids in there teens and yet take nothing from the experienced users here. Sorry but I am not going to help you or the ones who didn't listen either past,present or future. If you are having a problem go ask your doctor for advice!

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## DKbuilder

my cycle is pretty much identical to yours, however, I don't use dbol . good luck with it.

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## flexandex

> my cycle is pretty much identical to yours, however, I don't use dbol. good luck with it.


Cool man, how far in are you??




> Uggg I have little respect to people who do steroids in there teens and yet take nothing from the experienced users here. Sorry but I am not going to help you or the ones who didn't listen either past,present or future. If you are having a problem go ask your doctor for advice!


So you posted in this thread; to let me know that you aren't going to post in the thread?
hahaha, yeah don't think ill be up at night over that one  :Smilie:

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## Kouga53

I started with the same cycle. I gave me pretty good mass. I'd say the last 4 weeks gave me the most mass. Pretty good feeling. 
Oh and for the first pin that pain can be normal.

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## Matt

So hows the glute now??

Any change??

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## liftw8t

Good luck with your cycle, I want to see what the outcome is

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## flexandex

> I started with the same cycle. I gave me pretty good mass. I'd say the last 4 weeks gave me the most mass. Pretty good feeling. 
> Oh and for the first pin that pain can be normal.


Yeah the pain was rather intense, was a big mistake of mine to give it such a vigirous massage, no matter how much you think you know - theres always something missing  :Smilie: 




> So hows the glute now??
> 
> Any change??


I went into the docs office, she took a look at it.
my blood pressure was 42/100 (low?)
temp was right in the normal range.
The area is reddened and sliiightly hot to the touch.

But in her opinion she couldnt feel any infection in the tissue, it was just swelling. 
Its still very swollen, quite red but i have a better overall body feeling and the pain greatly subsided.

If its still bothering me i'll go back in in a couple of days and get to her take another look.
Should have seen the look on her face when i spewed my story about a B-12 injection... lol  :Big Grin: 




> Good luck with your cycle, I want to see what the outcome is


Cheers man, great to have you along.

***General Update***
Left glute seems to be getting better.
Had my second pin in the right glute, made sure to be 100% stringent on sterillity and i'd say there is zero chance this will develope any type of infection.. little bit sore but easy to deal with.

Think i'm going to skip legs this week, and we'll see how i go next week.
For my next pin im thinking about hitting my left quad, to give my swollen left glute a proper rest.. any opinions on that?

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## stevey_6t9

BP 42/100??? lol i think thats wrong... maybe 100/42 but thats also very rare...

also i hope your gear is good, half the shit around aus prob isnt even filtered... whatmans are expensive, they just put a ton of BA to kill everything and you prob had a reaction with it..

i always swelled up after nearly every shot of prop ive done, you'll get use to it.

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## terraj

That BP is bad, what did the Doc say?

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## terraj

> Where are you from? Because most English speakers record dates as MM/DD/YY.
> And you're going to be keeping this log for 5 months?


Sorry Bro, but that is not correct.

America puts month first, but most other english speaking places use the day first.

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## DKbuilder

> Cool man, how far in are you??


I haven't begun yet. I need to order liquid torem from ar-r as my last PCT stuff  :7up: 

Overall, how do you feel? Physically and mentally?

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## flexandex

> BP 42/100??? lol i think thats wrong... maybe 100/42 but thats also very rare...
> 
> also i hope your gear is good, half the shit around aus prob isnt even filtered... whatmans are expensive, they just put a ton of BA to kill everything and you prob had a reaction with it..
> 
> i always swelled up after nearly every shot of prop ive done, you'll get use to it.


*edit* I was mistaken i thought 120/60 was baseline, 120/80 is the norm. My blood pressure was 100/*6*2

Well i got mine from an online source, it came from poland and is in individually sealed, perfectly level 1ml ampules. Human Grade. 
I did some research and stuff like that is just impracticle to fake..?
Not to mention one of the most respectable vets on here sourcechecked my source for me :Smilie: 
And yup you're right sorry, it was 100/62. The nurse took it, and just said that its no big deal - the younger and fitter you are the lower your bloodpressure will be.
However the day it was taken, you have to remember i had been sick all day, the only food i'd had was 2 apples 2 bannas and 2 protein shakes.

I've had my bloodpressure taken before on a cycle of clen , and it was 126/74, i think thats close to the normal range? So mabey i just have low blood pressure to begin with?




> That BP is bad, what did the Doc say?





> Sorry Bro, but that is not correct.
> 
> America puts month first, but most other english speaking places use the day first.


My bad man, it was 100/62, so low, but not crazy low! haha.
Nurse said it was nothing to worry about, younger and fitter you are the lower it will be.
That one always makes me laugh, Americans seem to think theyr at the centre of the world sometimes :P



> I haven't begun yet. I need to order liquid torem from ar-r as my last PCT stuff 
> 
> Overall, how do you feel? Physically and mentally?


What made you choose torem?
Whats your overall cycle / PCT make up?

I felt amazing my first few days, then when this infection/swelling/thing (dont know what to call it) i was bed ridden for about 36hours. Now i'm back on my feet, was in the gym yesterday, got 3700cals down me and had an amazing workout. My traps and medial delt are killin' me  :Big Grin:

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## DKbuilder

> What made you choose torem?
> Whats your overall cycle / PCT make up?
> 
> I felt amazing my first few days, then when this infection/swelling/thing (dont know what to call it) i was bed ridden for about 36hours. Now i'm back on my feet, was in the gym yesterday, got 3700cals down me and had an amazing workout. My traps and medial delt are killin' me


I've read a bunch of swifto's pct thoughts on torem and I decided to go with torem instead of clomid - and since the availability of clomid is annoyingly low in Denmark I had to go with torem since you can order it online from ar-r . 

My PCT is nolvadex and torem. I am going to run amiridex on cycle together with HCG .

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## Kouga53

I'm very curious to see PCT bloods. I hope they turn out alright..

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## flexandex

> I'm very curious to see PCT bloods. I hope they turn out alright..


Bet you aren't as curious as me.. :P. 
Yeah we can only hope eh?




> I've read a bunch of swifto's pct thoughts on torem and I decided to go with torem instead of clomid - and since the availability of clomid is annoyingly low in Denmark I had to go with torem since you can order it online from ar-r . 
> 
> My PCT is nolvadex and torem. I am going to run amiridex on cycle together with HCG.


Awesome bro, good to see you took your time to understand the ins and out and have put together the safest cycle possible under the current steroid -knowledge enviroment.
Sick of failed and pathetic cycles, throw up a log man! would be cool to follow along. Do you have a start date in mind?

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## gym.candy

nice log bro
i see you said that you purchased online
how much was the total for all your gear, what payment method did you use? and why didnt you buy locally?

i know of a few online sources which i trust are legit, though i am hesitant to purchase from any due to the fact that aussie customs are meant to be super tight

i believe one of the sources is based in Moldova

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## vettewreck

Wow another 19y/o who thinks they know it all and simply copy and paste sh!t from all over the internet with a stupid chart table and it actually impresses the less educated members by leading them to believe you know what youre talking about and then they tell you "good luck" LOLOL... Try telling me I shouldnt throw stones in a glass house. lol Newb. Good luck with your trt at 21y/o!!

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## F4iGuy

I'm sure you've heard this but at 19 you have a boat load of test already. No way have you hit your potential yet. Sounds like you've already made up your mind though.

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## layeazy

Seems like a lot of gym knowledge but read some on the bad sides you can get starting early not good ey. Also having to use calis and Viagra when your in your primes gotta hurt. 

anyways good luck hope you get the gains and recover doubt you will though...

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## dec11

man, another stupid kiddie log cheered on by, guess who? more stupid kiddies!

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## dec11

> Wow! very impressive log. I wish you the best of luck with everything in this cycle buddy. I will be following.


how hasnt this dick been banned yet? gives horrendous bad advice on compounds he knows nothing about and advocates kids using aas

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## vettewreck

> CMB gives horrendous bad advice on compounds he knows nothing about and advocates kids using aas


Took the words right out of my mouth!!!



> stupid kiddie log cheered on by more stupid kiddies!


I just said the EXACT same thing on the first page!! lol!!

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## dec11

> Took the words right out of my mouth!!!
> 
> I just said the EXACT same thing on the first page!! lol!!


lol, its painfully obvious to us all mate

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## bjpennnn

Man, you should listen to all these guys they are giving you solid advice. I started at your age and now i have extremely low test levels, and i may have to take test the rest of my life or live with low test forever. Both choices suck, so think about it.

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## vettewreck

The sad part is, OP talks like hes done it all yet this is his first cyle, and on his very first injection got a damn infection lol

I feel sorry for anyone taking advice from him down the road.

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## flexandex

> nice log bro
> i see you said that you purchased online
> how much was the total for all your gear, what payment method did you use? and why didnt you buy locally?
> 
> i know of a few online sources which i trust are legit, though i am hesitant to purchase from any due to the fact that aussie customs are meant to be super tight
> 
> i believe one of the sources is based in Moldova


Sorry man, no source talk. Get your posts up and stick around a bit, a few vets will help you out.




> Wow another 19y/o who thinks they know it all and simply copy and paste sh!t from all over the internet with a stupid chart table and it actually impresses the less educated members by leading them to believe you know what youre talking about and then they tell you "good luck" LOLOL... Try telling me I shouldnt throw stones in a glass house. lol Newb. Good luck with your trt at 21y/o!!





> The sad part is, OP talks like hes done it all yet this is his first cyle, and on his very first injection got a damn infection lol
> I feel sorry for anyone taking advice from him down the road.


Another old joker who honestly believes his opinion to be important enough to warrant making bitter and agressive posts with no actual substance.
If you don't like what you see, and don't want to offer anything constructive, really, why bother posting? 
I'll respond to this post; then use the ignore function to un-clutter my thread. Wouldn't reccomend anyone else to do this though, i think opinions like this - although gone about in the wrong way are needed to show both sides of the coin. Makes for a more rounded log of infomation.
-This is simply a fully documented log by a 19year old.
-I don't expect anyone to be impressed by a simple excel sheet that is literally just an expansion on week 1-10 weeek 1-4 etc.




> Seems like a lot of gym knowledge but read some on the bad sides you can get starting early not good ey. Also having to use calis and Viagra when your in your primes gotta hurt. 
> 
> anyways good luck hope you get the gains and recover doubt you will though...


we can only hope.




> man, another stupid kiddie log cheered on by, guess who? more stupid kiddies!


Obviously not willing to add anything constructive, ignored to help get rid of the clutter.




> Man, you should listen to all these guys they are giving you solid advice. I started at your age and now i have extremely low test levels, and i may have to take test the rest of my life or live with low test forever. Both choices suck, so think about it.


Yeah man. Its a big call to make, you regret it now?
What age did you use? how old are you now?
would be really interested in your story if you care to share...
I'm just hoping im one of the lucky ones.

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## Colt2535

Interested to follow your progress, Good luck man.

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## vettewreck

LOLOL!!! I make my opinion known so that others reading will be informed that what the OP is doing is stupid. Bc obviously he is super smart and knows it all hence jumping straight into a cycle without any true knowledge. I want to inform any young person reading the thread that age certianly plays a roll and it certainly isnt a good idea to use at 19.

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## wmaousley

> Sorry Bro, but that is not correct.
> 
> America puts month first, but most other english speaking places use the day first.



Sorry Bro, but that is also incorrect.

US Government puts year first example. 20110115

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## dec11

> Sorry man, no source talk. Get your posts up and stick around a bit, a few vets will help you out.
> 
> 
> 
> Another old joker who honestly believes his opinion to be important enough to warrant making bitter and agressive posts with no actual substance.
> If you don't like what you see, and don't want to offer anything constructive, really, why bother posting? 
> I'll respond to this post; then use the ignore function to un-clutter my thread. Wouldn't reccomend anyone else to do this though, i think opinions like this - although gone about in the wrong way are needed to show both sides of the coin. Makes for a more rounded log of infomation.
> -This is simply a fully documented log by a 19year old.
> -I don't expect anyone to be impressed by a simple excel sheet that is literally just an expansion on week 1-10 weeek 1-4 etc.
> ...


we'll see how clever you are when you are crying for advice on your impotence and how you've lost any weight you gained. point is your a child and you dont know what you are doing and your stupid log on here only adds to the problem of children playing with fire, take a look through recent threads and see how many teenie boppers that have been banned, its for a reason. you seem to think you are going to get massive on a cycle, im telling you now that YOU WONT. now off to the play pen and behave yourself

----------


## Matt

Flex i think you need to understand that myself dec and vett only say what we do because you could potentially cause yourself permanent damage which you may seriously regret in later life. Believe it or not we really do care that you stay safe and this isn't just an opportunity to flame some young guy. I really hope that you dont look back on this thread and think "christ those guy's were right". In years to come you may fully understand what we've said here and you to will be telling some young guy not to cycle...

That said this is your log and we have said what needs to be said so lets leave you to continue it in without any more interruption. We need to respect Flex's log guy's and wish him well for the future....

Best of luck and please continue to keep your log updated....

----------


## flexandex

> Flex i think you need to understand that myself dec and vett only say what we do because you could potentially cause yourself permanent damage which you may seriously regret in later life. Believe it or not we really do care that you stay safe and this isn't just an opportunity to flame some young guy. I really hope that you dont look back on this thread and think "christ those guy's were right". In years to come you may fully understand what we've said here and you to will be telling some young guy not to cycle...
> 
> That said this is your log and we have said what needs to be said so lets leave you to continue it in without any more interruption. We need to respect Flex's log guy's and wish him well for the future....
> 
> Best of luck and please continue to keep your log updated....


The sentiment in yours, dec's, vett's, bjpenn's and countless others is the same. And i *agree* and understand completely what you are saying, and i apreciate when its delivered in a respectful and kind manner.
Coming in here, telling me i'm stupid with zero knowledge like those 2 have done, is simply immature and there is nothing to be gained from it. There are plenty of people on this site like yourself that will take the time to actually empathize with someone and give *constructive* critisism, opposed to mindless flaming. 
(Just to show you what i mean)
*Dec11 Post*: we'll see how clever you are when you are crying for advice on your impotence and how you've lost any weight you gained. point is your a child and you dont know what you are doing and your stupid log
*Matt post:*: only say what we do because you could potentially cause yourself permanent damage which you may seriously regret in later life.
Same internal message, except one is ignored and the other apreciated. 

I've taken a calculated risk. As many others have done. I will either win or lose; either way i am fully prepared to accept the consequences.
I will continue the log as long as there is support and people want to see how its going, would be awesome if you could check in now and again and clean up some of the more provocative posts that add nothing.
I'll be posting my First weekly update tonight with an overview of my 3 pins, training session, mental aspects and my measurement + lift log.

----------


## Matt

I shall speak to Admin to see if i can have some of the less constructive posts removed and clear the thread up and yes i will check in from time to time...

----------


## flexandex

> I shall speak to Admin to see if i can have some of the less constructive posts removed and clear the thread up and yes i will check in from time to time...


Awesome man, thanks alot. I plan to make this thread as broad and informative as possible; hopefully it can become an asset to the site.

----------


## PT

he was told the dangers now if someone dosnt have something positive to say please dont post here. thanx

----------


## dec11

not being confrontational but just to ask, are we now condoning youngsters to use? all a log from a 19 yr old is going to do is glorify this to other youngsters imho. the forum tells sub 25yrs they really shouldnt use aas for good reason and then on the other hand allows a log from a teenager and known bad advisors chirping in on it.

----------


## Matt

> so just to ask. are we now condoning youngsters to use? all a log from a 19 yr old is going to do is glorify this to other youngsters imho.


No mate, i will never condone anyone under the age of 25 to do aas. However once we have explained clearly to anyone under that age of the serious risks they take then that is all we can do, we cant just then have a flame fest in their log.

Dec no one on this board except perhaps marcus tries to stir these young guy's away from aas than myself, i will never give advice in these logs or threads except to tell them to stop what their doing. But we must draw a line somewhere...

Im sure flex himself would not advise people of his age to cycle, i would hope....

----------


## dec11

> No mate, i will never condone anyone under the age of 25 to do aas. However once we have explained clearly to anyone under that age of the serious risks they take then that is all we can do, we cant just then have a flame fest in their log.
> 
> Dec no one on this board except perhaps marcus tries to stir these young guy's away from aas than myself, i will never give advice in these logs or threads except to tell them to stop what their doing. But we must draw a line somewhere...
> 
> Im sure flex himself would not advise people of his age to cycle, i would hope....


fair enough mate

----------


## flexandex

> he was told the dangers now if someone dosnt have something positive to say please dont post here. thanx


Cheers man.




> No mate, i will never condone anyone under the age of 25 to do aas. However once we have explained clearly to anyone under that age of the serious risks they take then that is all we can do, we cant just then have a flame fest in their log.
> 
> Dec no one on this board except perhaps marcus tries to stir these young guy's away from aas than myself, i will never give advice in these logs or threads except to tell them to stop what their doing. But we must draw a line somewhere...
> 
> Im sure flex himself would not advise people of his age to cycle, i would hope....


You're right Matt, i was going to elaborate on this later, but ill do it now - i'll see if i can edit it into my OP aswell.
Its hard to really explain my feelings without coming across as an arogant know it all... but ill try..

I would never advise someone else below the arbitary 25y/o to begin their cycle, wether they have reached their natural potential and have the knowledge to start safely or not. Its not my place to do so.
This is a very personal decision and needs to have alot of care and effort put into it. Because the risks are so much more prevelant at my age it would be unfair to push what i believe onto someone.

If the worst does happen, god forbid, atleast this log will be here. To prove to another 1,000 younger guys that the risks are *real* and unless you are willing to make that call, stay away for a couple of years.

From here on out i'm going to avoid the moral discussion and keep this as more of a strict log of on-cycle problems, occurances and progress. At this rate we'll have 30pages of banter!

----------


## DKbuilder

So how are your gains so far?

----------


## MBMETC

> Cheers man.
> 
> 
> 
> You're right Matt, i was going to elaborate on this later, but ill do it now - i'll see if i can edit it into my OP aswell.
> Its hard to really explain my feelings without coming across as an arogant know it all... but ill try..
> 
> *I would never advise someone else below the arbitary 25y/o to begin their cycle, wether they have reached their natural potential and have the knowledge to start safely or not. Its not my place to do so.
> This is a very personal decision and needs to have alot of care and effort put into it. Because the risks are so much more prevelant at my age it would be unfair to push what i believe onto someone.*If the worst does happen, god forbid, atleast this log will be here. To prove to another 1,000 younger guys that the risks are *real* and unless you are willing to make that call, stay away for a couple of years.
> ...


flex, just so i an understand you better
if your aware of the dangers and would advise against the young using aas then why make the decision yourself to use early in life. surely not to be a statistic.

----------


## flexandex

> flex, just so i an understand you better
> if your aware of the dangers and would advise against the young using aas then why make the decision yourself to use early in life. surely not to be a statistic.


There is anecdotal evidence for both sides of the arguement. I *know* that every teen who uses steroids doesn't have the adverse effects that some members here would have you believe are a 100% occurance. Some of these kids run horrible cycles with no pct, and come out fine.
There are also alot of people with stories that support the increased risks of under 25's. 

Basically bodybuilding has consumed my life for the last few years, and its restricting me in moving foward. At this point in my life i have made an informed decision that the best thing for me to do is to undertake the *risk* of a well thoughtout and comprehensive cycle to get the results i crave.

A cycle is the same as everything else in life. Its a risk vs reward scenario. to me, the equation adds up and reward > risk. So i'm moving foward with what i want. Perhaps if everything goes horribly wrong and i actually experience the detrimental effects - then i will realize that my reasoning wasn't sound. Thats just another risk i'm willing to take.
I would just like to add that i feel that myself using the risk vs reward to make my decision is a bit different to the majority of teens/younger guys that come onto the site talking about their first cycle. The reason for this is i have come close to fully comprehending the risks and the rewards. 

*Week 2 update*

Had my 3rd pin on monday, and decided i wanted to give pinning myself a go and give my glutes a rest. Decided on using the right thigh, watched a few youtube videos and went for it.
Only injected about 1.25" in with a 1.5" on the outer sweep of the quad. Aspirated, no blood, injected slowly. All in all a very clean and painless injection. I may stop doing glutes entirely and use quads. Was a much more enjoyable experience.

I have been checking nipples etc, no obvious signs of bloating. Am still very vascular and can see striations like i normally would. Took my first dose of 0.25 liquidex on monday and will take 0.25 with injections from now on as a precaution.

My training has been going absolutely amazing - great pumps, great agression and ridiculous DOMS. hahaha.
Diet has been on point, i've hit my macro's every day except when i had the possible infection and was bed ridden. 

Very pleased with progress so far and if everything continues on like this i should be a happy man.
Not much change in measurements week 1.. an increase in waist size i wasn't happy about. But thats to be expected with the increased calories, i rely quite heavily on milk so that bloats me a bit.


Overall for week 1 i would rate it a 10/10. Loved every second of it.

----------


## dec11

> There is anecdotal evidence for both sides of the arguement. I *know* that every teen who uses steroids doesn't have the adverse effects that some members here would have you believe are a 100% occurance. Some of these kids run horrible cycles with no pct, and come out fine.
> There are also alot of people with stories that support the increased risks of under 25's. 
> 
> *Basically bodybuilding has consumed my life for the last few years, and its restricting me in moving foward*. At this point in my life i have made an informed decision that the best thing for me to do is to undertake the *risk* of a well thoughtout and comprehensive cycle to get the results i crave.
> 
> A cycle is the same as everything else in life. Its a risk vs reward scenario. to me, the equation adds up and reward > risk. So i'm moving foward with what i want. Perhaps if everything goes horribly wrong and i actually experience the detrimental effects - then i will realize that my reasoning wasn't sound. Thats just another risk i'm willing to take.
> I would just like to add that i feel that myself using the risk vs reward to make my decision is a bit different to the majority of teens/younger guys that come onto the site talking about their first cycle. The reason for this is i have come close to fully comprehending the risks and the rewards. 
> 
> *Week 2 update*
> ...


so you're saying you've hit genetic potential after 2yrs training at age 19?

----------


## MACHINE5150

The unfortunate thing is that this kid will post his results of gaining 20lbs and then every other teen will want to do the same.. because we all know he is not going to come back here in two or three years and say.. my test levels are about 25% of where they should be.

----------


## dec11

> The unfortunate thing is that this kid will post his results of *gaining 20lbs* and then every other teen will want to do the same.. because we all know he is not going to come back here in two or three years and say.. my test levels are about 25% of where they should be.


 hes already measuring arms and shoulders as having gains after a massive 3 injections

----------


## terraj

> Sorry Bro, but that is also incorrect.
> 
> US Government puts year first example. 20110115


From Wikipedia

In the United States, dates are traditionally written in the "month day year" order, that is, in neither descending nor ascending order of significance. (In computing, this would be called a "middle-endian" order.) This order is used in both the traditional all-numeric date (e.g., "12/31/99" or "12/31/1999") 

The ISO 8601 yyyy-mm-dd format is also used within the FAA and military because of the need to eliminate ambiguity. The fully written "day month year" (e.g., 12 March 2005) in written American English is starting to become more common outside of the media industry and legal documents, particularly in university publications and in some international-influenced publications as a means of dealing with ambiguity.[citation needed] However, most Americans write "March 12, 2005". Speaking the "day month year" format is still rarely used, with the exception of the Fourth of July.

I win!!

----------


## flexandex

> so you're saying you've hit genetic potential after 2yrs training at age 19?





> hes already measuring arms and shoulders as having gains after a massive 3 injections


Its *your* rule that i have to hit my 'genetic potential'. I don't want to go far beyond my genetic potential anyway; because by definition, Its not sustainable. I know i'll be happy with what i have when i'm done.
Is there a reason not to keep up a log of measurements? How is there any downside to that? should i just skip my measurements for week 1-2? how will i gauge improvements?
Any variance could be due to a number of factors, swelling from a workout, latent pump, glycocegen, water. Does that mean i should not take the correct reading?

I've tried to be nice to you because i'm a human being, you didn't show me the same respect. Now i'll tell you what i really think.
You're older bitter dude, with a superiority complex. Your physique is sloppy and something i would not be proud of whatsoever at your age with the amount of gear you have put into it. I'm sure you'll claim thats because your a powerlifter. A powerlifter with 14 years and deadlifting mid 200's..? haha. Obviously i would regret those played out, cheesy and clusmy tatoos, aswell.
I've read you're posts and they are almost always antagonistic, I have no need for your advice as you're nothing but a parrot. With 4000+ posts i bet there hasnt been many orginal helpful thoughts in there. I find you to be a pathetic person.
You obviously have alot of interest in me due to your 5-6 posts in my thread trying to bring me down in the space of two days. Perhaps your jealous? perhaps just a loser? You have already been shut down by two respected veterens and been asked not to post your silly and worthless musings. I guess they will either do something about it or this log will just turn into a worthless arguement and i'll take it elsewhere. 

If the moderators/admin of the site don't want this log here due to the encouragement other younger guys might find (or not find), then i'm quite happily to do it privately. 
So, in short, get the f_u_ck out of my thread, you aren't wanted.




> The unfortunate thing is that this kid will post his results of gaining 20lbs and then every other teen will want to do the same.. because we all know he is not going to come back here in two or three years and say.. my test levels are about 25% of where they should be.


You'll be getting a post cycle hormone panel; what more do you want from a log?
I think a problem here is alot of you guys are genuinely worried that this cycle might turn out allright.

----------


## stevey_6t9

> Its *your* rule that i have to hit my 'genetic potential'. I don't want to go far beyond my genetic potential anyway; because by definition, Its not sustainable. I know i'll be happy with what i have when i'm done.
> Is there a reason not to keep up a log of measurements? How is there any downside to that? should i just skip my measurements for week 1-2? how will i gauge improvements?
> Any variance could be due to a number of factors, swelling from a workout, latent pump, glycocegen, water. Does that mean i should not take the correct reading?
> 
> I've tried to be nice to you because i'm a human being, you didn't show me the same respect. Now i'll tell you what i really think.
> You're older bitter dude, with a superiority complex. Your physique is sloppy and something i would not be proud of whatsoever at your age with the amount of gear you have put into it. I'm sure you'll claim thats because your a powerlifter. A powerlifter with 14 years and deadlifting mid 200's..? haha. Obviously i would regret those played out, cheesy and clusmy tatoos, aswell.
> I've read you're posts and they are almost always antagonistic, I have no need for your advice as you're nothing but a parrot. With 4000+ posts i bet there hasnt been many orginal helpful thoughts in there. I find you to be a pathetic person.
> You obviously have alot of interest in me due to your 5-6 posts in my thread trying to bring me down in the space of two days. Perhaps your jealous? perhaps just a loser? You have already been shut down by two respected veterens and been asked not to post your silly and worthless musings. I guess they will either do something about it or this log will just turn into a worthless arguement and i'll take it elsewhere. 
> 
> ...


we have a no flame policy here, so be careful what you say to other members or you will get banned...

----------


## wmaousley

> From Wikipedia
> 
> In the United States, dates are traditionally written in the "month day year" order, that is, in neither descending nor ascending order of significance. (In computing, this would be called a "middle-endian" order.) This order is used in both the traditional all-numeric date (e.g., "12/31/99" or "12/31/1999") 
> 
> The ISO 8601 yyyy-mm-dd format is also used within the FAA and military because of the need to eliminate ambiguity. The fully written "day month year" (e.g., 12 March 2005) in written American English is starting to become more common outside of the media industry and legal documents, particularly in university publications and in some international-influenced publications as a means of dealing with ambiguity.[citation needed] However, most Americans write "March 12, 2005". Speaking the "day month year" format is still rarely used, with the exception of the Fourth of July.
> 
> I win!!



Bro I work for the US GOVERNMENT, *YOU LOSE*also wikipedia isnt a reliable source. Wikipedia sources are banned as research resources by the US Governments Department of Education.
In schools, universities in the US year/mm/dd is the format used. Get over it!!!!



OUTDATED INFO

----------


## terraj

> Bro I work for the US GOVERNMENT, *YOU LOSE*also wikipedia isnt a reliable source. Wikipedia sources are banned as research resources by the US Governments Department of Education.
> In schools, universities in the US year/mm/dd is the format used. Get over it!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> OUTDATED INFO


Terraj is right and you are wrong.....you can say it, it might hurt a little bit.

I also work for your Government...not that has anything to do with you been WRONG.

----------


## *Admin*

*We do not allow any FLAMING and by the looks of things there has been plenty... now I will be looking at this and removing the content that has no need here... If I see anymore flaming and you know yourselves from who... I will start suspending or banning people... up to you...


and guys good jobs... you also know who you are!!!


Respect

*admin**

----------


## flexandex

> we have a no flame policy here, so be careful what you say to other members or you will get banned...


Guess you missed the 5-6 idiotic flame posts he made?
Thought i'd shut him down properly if he wouldnt respond to me and others asking nicely.




> *We do not allow any FLAMING and by the looks of things there has been plenty... now I will be looking at this and removing the content that has no need here... If I see anymore flaming and you know yourselves from who... I will start suspending or banning people... up to you...
> 
> 
> and guys good jobs... you also know who you are!!!
> 
> 
> Respect
> 
> *admin**


Thanks alot mate, makes me glad i chose AR-R to get my products from. They'r all in tip top shape btw!

Just while you're in here cleaning it up, would you mind removing this ridiculous debate about date format? A real waste of space..

----------


## terraj

> Guess you missed the 5-6 idiotic flame posts he made?
> Thought i'd shut him down properly if he wouldnt respond to me and others asking nicely.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks alot mate, makes me glad i chose AR-R to get my products from. They'r all in tip top shape btw!
> 
> Just while you're in here cleaning it up, would you mind removing this ridiculous debate about date format? A real waste of space..


Sorry Bro, I would not have put it on a real thread....

----------


## marcus300

> There is anecdotal evidence for both sides of the arguement. I *know* that every teen who uses steroids doesn't have the adverse effects that some members here would have you believe are a 100% occurance. Some of these kids run horrible cycles with no pct, and come out fine.
> There are also alot of people with stories that support the increased risks of under 25's. 
> 
> Basically bodybuilding has consumed my life for the last few years, and its restricting me in moving foward. At this point in my life i have made an informed decision that the best thing for me to do is to undertake the *risk* of a well thoughtout and comprehensive cycle to get the results i crave.
> 
> A cycle is the same as everything else in life. Its a risk vs reward scenario. to me, the equation adds up and reward > risk. So i'm moving foward with what i want. Perhaps if everything goes horribly wrong and i actually experience the detrimental effects - then i will realize that my reasoning wasn't sound. Thats just another risk i'm willing to take.
> I would just like to add that i feel that myself using the risk vs reward to make my decision is a bit different to the majority of teens/younger guys that come onto the site talking about their first cycle. The reason for this is i have come close to fully comprehending the risks and the rewards. 
> Overall for week 1 i would rate it a 10/10. Loved every second of it.


When your life as been consume with bodybuilding for over 20yrs rather than 2-3 you will realize that using steroids when your a teenager does have an adverse effect on your HPTA. Steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development,you are still developing at 19yrs old and this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time of growth and development, your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

Its complete madness and irresponsible of you to think your answers are found within an injection or tablet at your age, I hope then younger members of this site are far more educated than yourself and see through this stupidity IMHO.

----------


## dec11

all tht from a little wimp to afraid to put up pics, we can all see you've wriggled out of tht with stupid excuses. i dont give a shit what you think of my shape, im no bodybuilder, never was and never want to be. you prob cant even lift your dick out straight neva mind weights.i cant believe admin is allowing this arrogant little turd and his log to proceed, total hypocrisy, and opening the door to all the rest of the annoying little kids. can we ever have a mature only section this board because all it's gotten to is a creche. 

if i do get banned then so be it, i can remember being repremanded for advising a 23yr old previously

----------


## dec11

> Sorry Bro, I would not have put it on a real thread....


haha, nice one

----------


## ty357

Well you seem to know all the dangers of what your doing. I know you heard the your to young speech 10000000000 times but your going to do what you want anyway. I say becarefull and continue to educate yourself. Its your life bro and your body.
I also want to say if its so bad for a 19 year old to cycle then why is he allowed to put up his cycle for all to see. Why not lock the thread then having 100 pages of people stating the same thing. Just my 2 cents

----------


## vettewreck

> Its complete madness and irresponsible of you to think your answers are found within an injection or tablet at your age, I hope then younger members of this site are far more educated than yourself and see through this stupidity IMHO.


Thank god Marcus can see this. 

Flex, I think just bc you write things out doesnt mean you know more than any other kid, and honestly all youre doing is talking in circles and being a hypocrite. You said it yourself, "I wouldnt advise anyone under 25 to use gear", THEN you go on to say "I know the risks and im going to do what I want" (esentially), bc honestly thats what you ARE saying. Its absurd that youre going to post a log at all and youre having "crazy pumps" 3 whopping injections in. THATS the difference between someone who KNOWS what they're talking about, and someone whos just THINKING they do bc they read alot. The sad part is youre going to post how you gained 20-30lbs, other kids will see this, and jump on the bandwagon. The thing is, you are going to lose it all but 5lbs probably. I say that bc you THINK you hit your genetic plateau at 19 and 2 years into lifting. You are well written but sadly you are no different than any other kid who comes on here saying " I eat alot and I cant gain size so im doing steroids ". I write all this now so that others reading will hopefully read what I have written and can see through your closed minded hypocritical thought process.

----------


## DKbuilder

> Thank god Marcus can see this. 
> 
> Flex, I think just bc you write things out doesnt mean you know more than any other kid, and honestly all youre doing is talking in circles and being a hypocrite. You said it yourself, "I wouldnt advise anyone under 25 to use gear", THEN you go on to say "I know the risks and im going to do what I want" (esentially), bc honestly thats what you ARE saying. Its absurd that youre going to post a log at all and youre having "crazy pumps" 3 whopping injections in. THATS the difference between someone who KNOWS what they're talking about, and someone whos just THINKING they do bc they read alot. The sad part is youre going to post how you gained 20-30lbs, other kids will see this, and jump on the bandwagon. *The thing is, you are going to lose it all but 5lbs probably*. I say that bc you THINK you hit your genetic plateau at 19 and 2 years into lifting. You are well written but sadly you are no different than any other kid who comes on here saying " I eat alot and I cant gain size so im doing steroids". I write all this now so that others reading will hopefully read what I have written and can see through your closed minded hypocritical thought process.


Bold - how will he lose almost all gains? Isn't that decided upon his dedication, training, diet and genetics? You can't state something like that. I don't say he will lose it all but I don't say he will keep it either. How the **** do we know?

----------


## vettewreck

Im basing it on the fact that hes 19 and 175lbs. He simply doesnt have a base to sustain the gains. IMO, that should be common sense.

----------


## Cacu

Flex,

You sound like a smart young man. You've obviously taken the time to be methodical about cycling. The issue here isn't that you aren't capable of doing a cycle correctly, but rather that your desire to use gear is a bit premature.
You have more T-esters in your ball sack than any two board vets combined. Training and nutrition will bring out what you need. In your case, the risks are WAY TOO high for the reward.

There are dozens of great programs and info out there for training. Art Devany, Robb Wolf, especially Rippetoe. With Rips program, at your age, unless you have an aversion to eating, you can pack on massive quality gains.

On the matter of these "experts" that are flaming you. Brush it off, a couple of them came at me when I simply asked questions about cycling. You can always recognize them because they don't offer specific advice, just try to shout you down with insults. 
They are keyboard ninjas, just move on and forget about them.

Hope for the best, but I bid you to train hard and dial in your nutrition. Do Starting Strength and GOMAD for 5 years. You will grow and when you are ready to cycle, your soft tissue, skeletal system, and endocrine system will be humming and ready. Otherwise, you are risking a disability.

Godspeed.

----------


## stephenc28

be real keen to see how it goes. regarding him posting gains already(i may be wrong here) but dbol is very fast acting and well known to give fast gains and good pumps. hes been taking dbol every day so some prog would be expected.

----------


## flexandex

> When your life as been consume with bodybuilding for over 20yrs rather than 2-3 you will realize that using steroids when your a teenager does have an adverse effect on your HPTA. Steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development,you are still developing at 19yrs old and this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time of growth and development, your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.
> 
> Its complete madness and irresponsible of you to think your answers are found within an injection or tablet at your age, I hope then younger members of this site are far more educated than yourself and see through this stupidity IMHO.


Good post. Theres nothing i can say that i haven't said before, thanks for your interest though. I respect you and your contribution to the community; so thanks, i guess?
I did notice you qoute a 19year old, similiar to me. I think your words were something along the lines of _"age doesnt allways matter when it comes to advice, maturity and intelligence count aswell"_. This is the same 19year old who ran a cycle and recovered well. I guess hes full of the same stupidity i am.




> all tht from a little wimp to afraid to put up pics, we can all see you've wriggled out of tht with stupid excuses. i dont give a shit what you think of my shape, im no bodybuilder, never was and never want to be. you prob cant even lift your dick out straight neva mind weights.i cant believe admin is allowing this arrogant little turd and his log to proceed, total hypocrisy, and opening the door to all the rest of the annoying little kids. can we ever have a mature only section this board because all it's gotten to is a creche. 
> 
> if i do get banned then so be it, i can remember being repremanded for advising a 23yr old previously


Happy with your last word you silly old man?
I'll leave it at that, before you_ do_ get banned.




> Well you seem to know all the dangers of what your doing. I know you heard the your to young speech 10000000000 times but your going to do what you want anyway. I say becarefull and continue to educate yourself. Its your life bro and your body.
> I also want to say if its so bad for a 19 year old to cycle then why is he allowed to put up his cycle for all to see. Why not lock the thread then having 100 pages of people stating the same thing. Just my 2 cents


Freedom of speech i guess? I know man, its the same sentiment but theres nothing really else that can be said. Cheers though. 



> Thank god Marcus can see this. 
> 
> Flex, I think just bc you write things out doesnt mean you know more than any other kid, and honestly all youre doing is talking in circles and being a hypocrite. You said it yourself, "I wouldnt advise anyone under 25 to use gear", THEN you go on to say "I know the risks and im going to do what I want" (esentially), bc honestly thats what you ARE saying. Its absurd that youre going to post a log at all and youre having "crazy pumps" 3 whopping injections in. THATS the difference between someone who KNOWS what they're talking about, and someone whos just THINKING they do bc they read alot. The sad part is youre going to post how you gained 20-30lbs, other kids will see this, and jump on the bandwagon. The thing is, you are going to lose it all but 5lbs probably. I say that bc you THINK you hit your genetic plateau at 19 and 2 years into lifting. You are well written but sadly you are no different than any other kid who comes on here saying " I eat alot and I cant gain size so im doing steroids". I write all this now so that others reading will hopefully read what I have written and can see through your closed minded hypocritical thought process.





> Im basing it on the fact that hes 19 and 175lbs. He simply doesnt have a base to sustain the gains. IMO, that should be common sense.


Thanks for taking the time to put your thoughts in a more constructive manner. You've got a great physique so i respect what you have to say.

Although you still obviously just skimmed the top and saw i was 19. I am currently on a day11 of my dbol kickstart. Are you going to tell me that dbol doesn't illicit great pumps and almost instantaenous effects? The half life of dbol is 4 hours. I'm sure you know what that means in terms of of a timespan of effects.
I know for a fact i'm not at my genetic limit, not once have i said i was. Thats a stipulation you guys have with steroids, and thats fair enough. But its not for me. 175lbs shredded, on my frame, is a quality base. I won't argue it, because i'm not willing to back it up with pictures. 
I'm sure you'll still be around when i'm 8weeks post, and 16weeks post. 
Check back in then and we'll see wether i've lost 90% of my gains.




> Flex,
> 
> You sound like a smart young man. You've obviously taken the time to be methodical about cycling. The issue here isn't that you aren't capable of doing a cycle correctly, but rather that your desire to use gear is a bit premature.
> You have more T-esters in your ball sack than any two board vets combined. Training and nutrition will bring out what you need. In your case, the risks are WAY TOO high for the reward.
> 
> There are dozens of great programs and info out there for training. Art Devany, Robb Wolf, especially Rippetoe. With Rips program, at your age, unless you have an aversion to eating, you can pack on massive quality gains.
> 
> On the matter of these "experts" that are flaming you. Brush it off, a couple of them came at me when I simply asked questions about cycling. You can always recognize them because they don't offer specific advice, just try to shout you down with insults. 
> They are keyboard ninjas, just move on and forget about them.
> ...


I know man. I can easily weed out these parrots who do nothing but throw a few insults out. they are the same in every thread and are worthless in terms of a resource. 
But the majority are still outrageously knowledgable and helpful. So thats why i'm here. 


At the end of the day, this forum has a no flame policy. If the admin wants to enforce it and let the log continue, i'll be glad to and ill continue on.
Otherwise i'll have to shut up shop and you might see me floating around Q&A with my next infection, gyno and TRT questions.

----------


## dec11

> Good post. Theres nothing i can say that i haven't said before, thanks for your interest though. I respect you and your contribution to the community; so thanks, i guess?
> I did notice you qoute a 19year old, similiar to me. I think your words were something along the lines of _"age doesnt allways matter when it comes to advice, maturity and intelligence count aswell"_. This is the same 19year old who ran a cycle and recovered well. I guess hes full of the same stupidity i am.
> 
> 
> Happy with your last word you silly old man?
> I'll leave it at that, before you_ do_ get banned.
> 
> 
> Freedom of speech i guess? I know man, its the same sentiment but theres nothing really else that can be said. Cheers though. 
> ...


you'd want to take that on board yourself kiddo. 
you arent mature enough to use powerful drugs, another typical arrogant thinks he knows it all child, if admin bans me so be it. this lifestyle isnt for teenie boppers. i will never stand by crap like this and this log SHOULDNT be entertained on this board and im not the only one who thinks that. your a stupid delusional childand i hope you get whats coming to you.

----------


## dec11

> Good post. Theres nothing i can say that i haven't said before, thanks for your interest though. I respect you and your contribution to the community; so thanks, i guess?
> I did notice you qoute a 19year old, similiar to me. I think your words were something along the lines of _"age doesnt allways matter when it comes to advice, maturity and intelligence count aswell"_. This is the same 19year old who ran a cycle and recovered well. I guess hes full of the same stupidity i am.
> 
> 
> Happy with your last word you silly old man?
> I'll leave it at that, before you_ do_ get banned.
> 
> 
> Freedom of speech i guess? I know man, its the same sentiment but theres nothing really else that can be said. Cheers though. 
> ...


the lies begin already...........

----------


## flexandex

> you'd want to take that on board yourself kiddo. 
> you arent mature enough to use powerful drugs, another typical arrogant thinks he knows it all child, if admin bans me so be it. this lifestyle isnt for teenie boppers. i will never stand by crap like this and this log SHOULDNT be entertained on this board and im not the only one who thinks that. your a stupid delusional childand i hope you get whats coming to you.


Its up to the mods+admin to decide what flys on this site, not you. If they want me to remove it, i will.
Or best case, your antagonistic posts will be deleted and we'll all live happier lives; including you.



> the lies begin already...........


Date 1-05-2011
Stats:
19
172lbs
5'10
7% BF (bodpod adredited).

Honestly man, you're making a fool out of yourself. I feel sorry for you.
I will make this my last response to you. Reply to it and try to be as mature as you can.
I'll let you have the last word you so crave so much, and then we can both move on. sound good?

P.s. you can qoute 2 posts in 1 reply. its a valuable skill :Smilie:

----------


## dec11

> Its up to the mods+admin to decide what flys on this site, not you. If they want me to remove it, i will.
> Or best case, your antagonistic posts will be deleted and we'll all live happier lives; including you.
> 
> Date 1-05-2011
> Stats:
> 19
> 172lbs
> 5'10
> 7% BF (bodpod adredited).
> ...


 i enjoy spreading it out for you sonny  :Wink: 
qoute? spelling, its a valuable skill  :Smilie:

----------


## vettewreck

> Honestly man, you're making a fool out of yourself. I feel sorry for you.


Other way around man. Youve done nothing but contradict yourself in your very own thread over and over again. The more educated ppl will see this. Carry on with your log....

----------


## stevey_6t9

> Good post. Theres nothing i can say that i haven't said before, thanks for your interest though. I respect you and your contribution to the community; so thanks, i guess?
> *I did notice you qoute a 19year old, similiar to me. I think your words were something along the lines of "age doesnt allways matter when it comes to advice, maturity and intelligence count aswell". This is the same 19year old who ran a cycle and recovered well. I guess hes full of the same stupidity i am.
> *


Since this is some what orientated around me i feel obliged to bring some in-depth behind the scenes light into it for you.

Yes, i did theoretically recover in the normal ranges according to the lab, however my 4 months post pct test came back at around 8nmol/l, which if you search my previous threads is lower then my initial pre cycle (11-12nmol/ levels- tested twice.)

Now yes i may have recovered just in the norms which is considered by many as 'recovered', but having that reduced testosterone levels will hamper me in future gaining naturally even if its a few points, now that was just 1 cycle of test at 600mg wk. 

Im not really close with any members here, frankly i dont give two fuks about half of them, though 2 members here im am close with who live in aus also, one being mr_rose, hes already on trt (20yo) from cycling, and big_ron (21) also is looking for TRT docs, couple weeks ago another syd member my age pmd if i know any good docs around here to get on TRT after just 2 cycles... not to mention another member my age from melb who is on self prescribed trt now... it does happen man, just non of the bros at the gym talk about it because they dont get bloodwork and have to big egos to say there erections aren't the same.

----------


## dec11

> Since this is some what orientated around me i feel obliged to bring some in-depth behind the scenes light into it for you.
> 
> Yes, i did theoretically recover in the normal ranges according to the lab, however my 4 months post pct test came back at around 8nmol/l, which if you search my previous threads is lower then my initial pre cycle (11-12nmol/ levels- tested twice.)
> 
> Now yes i may have recovered just in the norms which is considered by many as 'recovered', but having that reduced testosterone levels will hamper me in future gaining naturally even if its a few points, now that was just 1 cycle of test at 600mg wk. 
> 
> Im not really close with any members here, frankly i dont give two fuks about half of them, though 2 members here im am close with who live in aus also, one being mr_rose, hes already on trt (20yo) from cycling, and big_ron (21) also is looking for TRT docs, couple weeks ago another syd member my age pmd if i know any good docs around here to get on TRT after just 2 cycles... not to mention another member my age from melb who is on self prescribed trt now... it does happen man, just non of the bros at the gym talk about it because they dont get bloodwork and have to big egos to say there erections aren't the same.


now that is a good post, fair play stevey.

----------


## terraj

Stevey is even starting to win me over.....

----------


## MACHINE5150

> Im basing it on the fact that hes 19 and 175lbs. He simply doesnt have a base to sustain the gains. IMO, that should be common sense.


I was 19 when i did my first cycle.. went from 200lbs to 200 and stayed there.. i kept everything.. minus a few pounds of water weight... but i was drinking a gallon of milk a day as well as eating four large meals and two protein shakes a day.. I lived in the dorms at college and got all the food i could ever want.. NOW my test levels are lower than they shouldd be, but not soo low to warrant TRT... 


VETTEWRECK - As much as we disagree with this kid doing this, getting upset/angry about it is not going to help, and i would hate to see you get banned by Admin over flamign someone who is not going to listen, as your constructive advice will be taken whole heartedly by countless others on other threads

----------


## dec11

> Flex,
> 
> You sound like a smart young man. You've obviously taken the time to be methodical about cycling. The issue here isn't that you aren't capable of doing a cycle correctly, but rather that your desire to use gear is a bit premature.
> You have more T-esters in your ball sack than any two board vets combined. Training and nutrition will bring out what you need. In your case, the risks are WAY TOO high for the reward.
> 
> There are dozens of great programs and info out there for training. Art Devany, Robb Wolf, especially Rippetoe. With Rips program, at your age, unless you have an aversion to eating, you can pack on massive quality gains.
> 
> *On the matter of these "experts" that are flaming you. Brush it off, a couple of them came at me when I simply asked questions about cycling. You can always recognize them because they don't offer specific advice, just try to shout you down with insults. 
> They are keyboard ninjas, just move on and forget about them.*
> ...


@*dec11 - 

Great to have you on the boards.
Well then, what do you think of my cycle plans?

Anavar Pyramiding up to 50-60mg a day then back down Wk 1-8.
Test Prop. as a base ~150mg/WK Week 1-8
Novaldex Week 1-8 Gynomas protection
HCG - Week 1-8 Ballsack health and fitness
PCT - Clomid Wk 8-9. Bringing it back online.

I may drop the Test altogether and have a little less PCT to do.* 


you seemed to appreciate me on your thread? you have to understand that this thread and log goes against safe cycling and if you stick around here long enough you will see how eternally stupid, arrogant and annoying some of these adolescents are. now, if you want to discuss anything more feel free to pm me or talk on tht thread you were running, im prob in for a ban or suspension as it is and dont want to give the little creep anymore satisfaction by commenting here.

----------


## vettewreck

> I was 19 when i did my first cycle.. went from 200lbs to 200 and stayed there.. i kept everything.. minus a few pounds of water weight... but i was drinking a gallon of milk a day as well as eating four large meals and two protein shakes a day.. I lived in the dorms at college and got all the food i could ever want.. NOW my test levels are lower than they shouldd be, but not soo low to warrant TRT... 
> 
> 
> VETTEWRECK - As much as we disagree with this kid doing this, getting upset/angry about it is not going to help, and i would hate to see you get banned by Admin over flamign someone who is not going to listen, as your constructive advice will be taken whole heartedly by countless others on other threads


Im not mad, angry or upset. I just simply hate it when people contradict themselves then want to post a log about it bc all its going to do is brainwash the young less knowledgeable members into thinking its ok. This kid is one of the worst examples to be posting a log. Hes a know it all, yet agrees with everyone who tells him not to use, a hypocrit, then contradicts himself. And remember Machine, theres a huuuge difference between 200lbs and 175. IMO, 200lbs is a good/great base to start with, while 175 is nothing and thats why I stated he doesnt have a base to sustain more than half of his gains he will get. Get me?

----------


## flexandex

*Week 3 update:*

Everything is still chugging along nicely. Got all my injection and gear protocol under control now and its just another lil chore to add to the day.
For week 3-4 i'll be going with 40mg dbol per day, hopefully i don't see any sides from that increase, if i do, i'll reduce it back.
So far i've had zero acne / 'roidrage' (lol), nothing really. A definite sense of wellbeing, wether thats placebo or not i couldn't tell you.
Had my 6th injection and mixed up my 5000iu HCG which i'll take at 250x2 PW untill week 12. Just a lil sub-q injection for that one, painless and simple.

Diet is in check and training is going well, looking at around 10% increase on most lifts. Great pumps in the gym, really loving it.

Took measurements about 1 1/2hours post workout, after my post workout meal etc. Probably not the best idea in terms of accuracy, but i'm sure over the 12weeks itll average out nicely into a upward trend.

Deffinitely feel like im looking bigger and better so far, everything going well, motivation is still 10/10.
I'll be back for my week 4 update if nothing pressing comes up before then!

----------


## HALTEH

My two cents..

I think everyone is being a little harsh on the OP. I mean, there are hundreds of threads (yes, hundreds) he could find all over the internet that try and beware teens of using AAS. I'm sure he's read many many many of them too.

I'm not in any way condoning the use of anabolics in the teenage years. I myself am only twenty, and will be starting the same cycle (without the HCG and A-Dex) in about two weeks.

No, I'm not backing him up for that reason, but if someone has done their research, admitted they are aware of the dangers, then all the power to them. Reading through this thread, sure he's young, and has a few witty combacks (I dont see why he shouldnt? He's getting bashed like crazy), he still seems to have done his research, and far more of it than the majority of people on these forums. I dont have many posts, but i've been lurking for a damn long time. So easy with the "stfu and look at your posts" comebacks when replying to this.

That being said ... what if this kid wanted to become an IFBB pro one day and had the potential to do so? You think any of the pros waiting 'till they were 26 "because it was safe"? **** no. Phil Heath was on the Olympia stage at 28.

Again, i'm not encouraging teens using them, but by all means, if someone has done their research, and they KNOW this is what they want ... god himself ain't gonna' stop 'em, trust me.

*No arguments intended here.* I just don't agree with all the "adults" acting all egotisical.

----------


## Freewizzle

Flexandex I think its funny how we get bashed when we are younger cosidering most of these people started young and now are addicted. Im pretty sure you are like me and only are going to do 1-2 cycles and be done with it. I think all the older folks on this website need to watch the documentary bigger stronger faster then tell us that we are in the wrong. The funny thing is that your balls dont shrink to all people from doing the research I did. We have better risk taking vietamen C than we do taking gear. If your balls do shrink they dont shrink for eternity it goes away after you get off the gear. I have done much research and heard many stories. O and my last question is why is it 16 that we can start body building? Im kind of confused why we get bashed so much and why people think its so wrong for kids 16-20 to take it when the side affects are the same for everyone.

----------


## flexandex

> My two cents..
> 
> I think everyone is being a little harsh on the OP. I mean, there are hundreds of threads (yes, hundreds) he could find all over the internet that try and beware teens of using AAS. I'm sure he's read many many many of them too.
> 
> I'm not in any way condoning the use of anabolics in the teenage years. I myself am only twenty, and will be starting the same cycle (without the HCG and A-Dex) in about two weeks.
> 
> No, I'm not backing him up for that reason, but if someone has done their research, admitted they are aware of the dangers, then all the power to them. Reading through this thread, sure he's young, and has a few witty combacks (I dont see why he shouldnt? He's getting bashed like crazy), he still seems to have done his research, and far more of it than the majority of people on these forums. I dont have many posts, but i've been lurking for a damn long time. So easy with the "stfu and look at your posts" comebacks when replying to this.
> 
> That being said ... what if this kid wanted to become an IFBB pro one day and had the potential to do so? You think any of the pros waiting 'till they were 26 "because it was safe"? **** no. Phil Heath was on the Olympia stage at 28.
> ...


No a-dex, what are you using for an AI if its needed? aromasin ?
Just wanted to point out that the argument about someoneone like an IFBB pro starting early is flawed. It really makes no difference to them, the amount of gear and timeframes they run it at really shuts down any chance of them having a normal endocrine system again. So the heighetened risks of messing up your HPTA is negligible to them.
All of these guys have their heart in the right place, some are just a bit arogant and go about it the wrong way. Its no skin off my nose..
Keep me posted on your cycle man.




> Flexandex I think its funny how we get bashed when we are younger cosidering most of these people started young and now are addicted. Im pretty sure you are like me and only are going to do 1-2 cycles and be done with it. I think all the older folks on this website need to watch the documentary bigger stronger faster then tell us that we are in the wrong. The funny thing is that your balls dont shrink to all people from doing the research I did. We have better risk taking vietamen C than we do taking gear. If your balls do shrink they dont shrink for eternity it goes away after you get off the gear. I have done much research and heard many stories. O and my last question is why is it 16 that we can start body building? Im kind of confused why we get bashed so much and why people think its so wrong for kids 16-20 to take it when the side affects are the same for everyone.


The logic behind waiting untill 21 at the bare minimum and 25 preferably has to do with the developement of your endorcine system.
If you can imagine stopping it midway in its developement - and then starting it back up again, any number of things can go wrong.
The risks are present for both 18year olds and 40year olds, however they are more pronounced at our age. I would argue the benefits are aswell, and therfore the risk vs reward still works out.

The point is, if you are thinking about steroids at a young age. you fcking better have every other aspect of it downpact before you get started as you are already at a disadvantage.

----------


## terraj

> The logic behind waiting untill 21 at the bare minimum and 25 preferably has to do with the developement of your endorcine system.
> If you can imagine stopping it midway in its developement - and then starting it back up again, any number of things can go wrong.
> The risks are present for both 18year olds and 40year olds, however they are more pronounced at our age. I would argue the benefits are aswell, and therfore the risk vs reward still works out.
> 
> The point is, if you are thinking about steroids at a young age. you fcking better have every other aspect of it downpact before you get started as you are already at a disadvantage.


Also a big concern for the youger user is the closing over of growth plates in long bones, stunted growth. 

I got this from a doctor-

We can give you the ossification of few of the important bones. . 

Femur: 
The 3 epiphyses/growth plates at upper end fuse at 18years 
The 1 epiphysis/growth plate at lower end fuse at 20 years 

Tibia: 
Upper end fuses at 16-18 years 
Lower end fuses at 15-17 years 

Humerus: 
Upper end during 20th year 
Lower end at about 16 years 

Radius: 
Upper end during 18th year 
Lower end at 20 years 

Funny how taking steroids at a young age can have the opposite of the desired effect huh. But I guess the OP knew this....

----------


## Freewizzle

Ha ha most def dude 100% agree with you!! I understand there are risk but there is risk for me going out and driving my car on the highway. Its just how risky we want to get. I am going to keep in touch with you considering we are same age and I am starting my test next tuesday no matter what. I hope everything goes well for you man and I will be following your documentary and thread.

----------


## dec11

> Ha ha most def dude 100% agree with you!! I understand there are risk but there is risk for me going out and *driving my car on the highway. Its just how risky we want to get*. I am going to keep in touch with you considering we are same age and I am starting my test next tuesday no matter what. I hope everything goes well for you man and I will be following your documentary and thread.


stupid comparison, you're hardly likely to deliberately crash your car, are you now?

----------


## HALTEH

> No a-dex, what are you using for an AI if its needed? aromasin ?
> Just wanted to point out that the argument about someoneone like an IFBB pro starting early is flawed. It really makes no difference to them, the amount of gear and timeframes they run it at really shuts down any chance of them having a normal endocrine system again. So the heighetened risks of messing up your HPTA is negligible to them.
> All of these guys have their heart in the right place, some are just a bit arogant and go about it the wrong way. Its no skin off my nose..
> Keep me posted on your cycle man.


to be honest, I'm not even gonna lie and make myself look good. I didn't get an AI. I wasn't planning on using one, but it's always better to be safe than sorry, so i'll most likely grab one before I start up with the cycle. I don't think I'll run it right from the begininng though - I'll probably just have it on hand in case gyno comes up, or bloating becomes far too out of hand. I've never run a cycle before, so I don't know what I'm prone to yet. Arimidex seems best. Is there a reason you chose that over Aromasin? I know Letro will be far too powerful for just a Test/Dianabol cycle.

----------


## dec11

> My two cents..
> 
> I think everyone is being a little harsh on the OP. I mean, there are hundreds of threads (yes, hundreds) he could find all over the internet that try and beware teens of using AAS. I'm sure he's read many many many of them too.
> 
> I'm not in any way condoning the use of anabolics in the teenage years. I myself am only twenty, and will be starting the same cycle (without the HCG and A-Dex) in about two weeks.
> 
> No, I'm not backing him up for that reason, but if someone has done their research, admitted they are aware of the dangers, then all the power to them. Reading through this thread, sure he's young, and has a few witty combacks (I dont see why he shouldnt? He's getting bashed like crazy), he still seems to have done his research, and far more of it than the majority of people on these forums. I dont have many posts, but i've been lurking for a damn long time. So easy with the "stfu and look at your posts" comebacks when replying to this.
> 
> That being said ... what if this kid wanted to become an IFBB pro one day and had the potential to do so? You think any of the pros waiting 'till they were 26 "because it was safe"? **** no. Phil Heath was on the Olympia stage at 28.
> ...


thts because you arent one yet and cant be told anything

----------


## Freewizzle

stupid comparison, you're hardly likely to deliberately crash your car, are you now?

Sorry dude I guess I wasnt going for a comparison I was just saying an example: Why do you keep bashing kids seriously man its kind of annoying. If you got something cool say it and if you dont just dont man. Like its kind of stupid that you cant back up your research but you can diss me on a comparison. Im sorry but I dont mean to be a dick just stop bashing and let it go!

----------


## HALTEH

> thts because you arent one yet and cant be told anything


Whatever, man. A heads up is one thing, but contstantly ripping into him isn't gonna do anything except make him wanna piss you off more (probably by going through with the cycle). If you really cared, you wouldn't all be cock-heads about it.

Like I said, I doubt anyone is gonna be able to change anyones mind when it comes to Anabolics. If someone is set on it, they're set on it. And in this case, I'm confident he knows what he's in for. That's all. It's not like he hasnt prepared himself for the consequences.

----------


## DKbuilder

Okay guys - please shut the FUK up now. Your endless ranting on how he should not do it should stop right now. You are wasting your time and you have spent 3 pages on it, just drop it. I have no comment on his age since it's his own decision. Let Flex post in half a year and let's see how it goes by then AND UNTIL THEN stop trying to win him over.

----------


## SexyBigpapapump

Why feed the troll? hes clearly ****n with us he has no pics or anything? and its a hilarious log were he thinks hes gunna grow everyday but his arms chest shoulders and everything stay the same size because hes injecting rat piss in him cause he bought them off a guy in a alley lol

----------


## flexandex

> Also a big concern for the youger user is the closing over of growth plates in long bones, stunted growth. 
> 
> I got this from a doctor-
> 
> We can give you the ossification of few of the important bones. . 
> 
> Femur: 
> The 3 epiphyses/growth plates at upper end fuse at 18years 
> The 1 epiphysis/growth plate at lower end fuse at 20 years 
> ...


Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, of course i knew this. Guess you still think im an ignorant dumbass. 
I actually went and conned my doc into getting me an insurance-covered appointment with a radiologist under the guise of a ankle injury. My growth plates were fully closed. My father is rather short, 5'4 and my mother only 5'5, i was extremely lucky to reach 5'10!!




> Ha ha most def dude 100% agree with you!! I understand there are risk but there is risk for me going out and driving my car on the highway. Its just how risky we want to get. I am going to keep in touch with you considering we are same age and I am starting my test next tuesday no matter what. I hope everything goes well for you man and I will be following your documentary and thread.


To be honest i don't know wether you're a troll or not, if you really are going to go ahead with your cycle then i'd lose all respect for you and any 'reasearch' you claim to have. If i'm being brutal, you are the type of young user that gives us a bad name. 
You are wasting your time and money starting your test man. I'd prefer it if you didn't start more flame wars in my thread, just PM me if you want to chat. 
Thanks.



> to be honest, I'm not even gonna lie and make myself look good. I didn't get an AI. I wasn't planning on using one, but it's always better to be safe than sorry, so i'll most likely grab one before I start up with the cycle. I don't think I'll run it right from the begininng though - I'll probably just have it on hand in case gyno comes up, or bloating becomes far too out of hand. I've never run a cycle before, so I don't know what I'm prone to yet. Arimidex seems best. Is there a reason you chose that over Aromasin? I know Letro will be far too powerful for just a Test/Dianabol cycle.


Deffinitely get an AI, its very cheap and you won't regret it. A small dose of 0.25 at every pin day is what i am following even though i haven't had any signs of gyno, bloating or acne. If signs appear, i'll up the dose.




> Why feed the troll? hes clearly ****n with us he has no pics or anything? and its a hilarious log were he thinks hes gunna grow everyday but his arms chest shoulders and everything stay the same size because hes injecting rat piss in him cause he bought them off a guy in a alley lol


Pathetic troll post, i'll report it to admin, enjoy your ban.

Just as an aside, i apreciate the support from you guys. Theres no need to start any more fighting over age, its been done and dusted. Haleth etc, just drop it and enjoy the log. cheers guys.

----------


## dec11

> Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, of course i knew this. Guess you still think im an ignorant dumbass. 
> I actually went and conned my doc into getting me an insurance-covered appointment with a radiologist under the guise of a ankle injury. My growth plates were fully closed. My father is rather short, 5'4 and my mother only 5'5, i was extremely lucky to reach 5'10!!
> 
> 
> To be honest i don't know wether you're a troll or not, if you really are going to go ahead with your cycle then i'd lose all respect for you and any 'reasearch' you claim to have. If i'm being brutal, you are the type of young user that gives us a bad name. 
> You are wasting your time and money starting your test man. I'd prefer it if you didn't start more flame wars in my thread, just PM me if you want to chat. 
> Thanks.
> 
> Deffinitely get an AI, its very cheap and you won't regret it. *A small dose of 0.25 at every pin day is what i am following even though i haven't had any signs of gyno, bloating or acne. If signs appear, i'll up the dose.*
> ...


wrong, you take an ai *IF* you get signs of sides. continue with your log by all means but dont give inaccurate advice if you dont know what you are doing yourself, the other impressionable youngsters are taking it all in...........

----------


## terraj

correct^^ that is common sense...only add chemicals that you need.

----------


## HALTEH

> wrong, you take an ai *IF* you get signs of sides. continue with your log by all means but dont give inaccurate advice if you dont know what you are doing yourself, the other impressionable youngsters are taking it all in...........


Thank you. Besides all of the arguing, I appreiciate the honest advice.

Question though .. if I were to get an AI, and I was only gonna use A-Dex (we'll use in this example), would I be taking 0.25mg only on pin days like he said? Or 0.25 everyday until side effects subside?

----------


## dec11

> Thank you. Besides all of the arguing, I appreiciate the honest advice.
> 
> Question though .. if I were to get an AI, and I was only gonna use A-Dex (we'll use in this example), would I be taking 0.25mg only on pin days like he said? Or 0.25 everyday until side effects subside?


i dont advise young users. sorry

----------


## *Admin*

> all tht from a little wimp to afraid to put up pics, we can all see you've wriggled out of tht with stupid excuses. i dont give a shit what you think of my shape, im no bodybuilder, never was and never want to be. you prob cant even lift your dick out straight neva mind weights.i cant believe admin is allowing this arrogant little turd and his log to proceed, total hypocrisy, and opening the door to all the rest of the annoying little kids. can we ever have a mature only section this board because all it's gotten to is a creche. 
> 
> if i do get banned then so be it, i can remember being reprimanded for advising a 23yr old previously



* 

You will not be banned for speaking your mind on this.... however if you flame him you would... 

Now as for questioning me for doing my job I am sorry you do not agree... however there is no rule stating that people can not post here... as long as they are 18 years of age they can post... and as long as they follow the rules I can not say do not post... now do I agree with everything posted here... I should say not... can I stop him from harming himself... no

He has been told the dangers and chooses not to heed that warning... that is all anyone can do... as for others coming to this thread and saying wow he did it so I am going to... well that is their stupidity... and their choice... 

For every one of these type threads we have many more stating the dangers and have people telling how they regret doing what he is doing... but lets not state things and badger people to death about them... it is the same as telling someone the dangers of smoking or drinking... they will not believe you/us they will still drink and still smoke and later down the road have their regrets... (btw I am not talking in moderation) however they have been warned and no matter how much talking they continue as well... 

NOW do I agree that he is doing the best thing for himself NO but he is the one later in life that will say they told me so... however he will not come here and admit it we all know that and so does any other kid that comes here doing the same thing or reading this... 

Yes we have that few that have started at 16 and have done great but they have stories to tell but never will they tell of the horrors they endured over the years or the waiting to see if they would ever be a father let alone have a normal sex life...


YES I have my opinions and have alot I could say but I will not waste my time on someone who has already stated they didn't want to hear good advice just want to here what they want to hear so leave him to his own demise...



One more thing he could have just came back lied about his age and not had this problem which is what most young guys do when they encounter this... I feel sure without knowing you have as have all advised many kids to do things that they should not because they are going to do what they want no matter what advice they get good bad or otherwise... 


Also remember one day he will remember back and say yeah he told me so but I wouldn't listen... if I had a dollar for every-time someone said they wish they had listened I would be a rich man...*

----------


## dec11

> * 
> 
> You will not be banned for speaking your mind on this.... however if you flame him you would... 
> 
> Now as for questioning me for doing my job I am sorry you do not agree... however there is no rule stating that people can not post here... as long as they are 18 years of age they can post... and as long as they follow the rules I can not say do not post... now do I agree with everything posted here... I should say not... can I stop him from harming himself... no
> 
> He has been told the dangers and chooses not to heed that warning... that is all anyone can do... as for others coming to this thread and saying wow he did it so I am going to... well that is their stupidity... and their choice... 
> 
> For every one of these type threads we have many more stating the dangers and have people telling how they regret doing what he is doing... but lets not state things and badger people to death about them... it is the same as telling someone the dangers of smoking or drinking... they will not believe you/us they will still drink and still smoke and later down the road have their regrets... (btw I am not talking in moderation) however they have been warned and no matter how much talking they continue as well... 
> ...


 *fair enough, i apologise for my temper on some of these posts. i felt this log was encouragement to other kids but you are right you cant stop them regardless, i thought that the less they see of younger users experiences the less they'd be inclined to try, doing away with the 'it didnt harm this guy' approach, 'look at his log'. they seem to only see the limp dick type sides and never think of the things like severe depression brought on by a malfunctioning hpta, the mental repercussions can be alot more devastating than being embarrased infront of some girl. as much as some of them bug me i'd hate for any of em to end up with that type of depression, im sure some here can relate, its a horrible thing to go through and would be very taxing on a young man.*

----------


## flexandex

> wrong, you take an ai *IF* you get signs of sides. continue with your log by all means but dont give inaccurate advice if you dont know what you are doing yourself, the other impressionable youngsters are taking it all in...........


http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t-is-it/page10
Post 374.

Edit: another thread i made with the same question: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ar.&highlight= 

There is conflicting schools of thought on wether to run a-dex either from the beginning or only as sides appear, tbh i'm happy to rely on swiftos advice. Hes pretty ridiculously intelligent.
Its on swifto's advice that i decided to run a preventative dose of arimidex . If you want to take that up with him.. christ.. god help you.




> correct^^ that is common sense...only add chemicals that you need.


An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

----------


## dec11

> http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t-is-it/page10
> Post 374.
> 
> Edit: another thread i made with the same question: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ar.&highlight= 
> 
> There is conflicting schools of thought on wether to run a-dex either from the beginning or only as sides appear, tbh i'm happy to rely on swiftos advice. Hes pretty ridiculously intelligent.
> Its on swifto's advice that i decided to run a preventative dose of arimidex . If you want to take that up with him.. christ.. god help you.
> 
> 
> An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.


i cant imagine swifto knowingly advising and 19yr old. alot of ppl do not get estro sides, how would you ever know you're prone if you blindly take adex and why would you need it if you're not prone? 
i'll believe he stated that, if i see swifto posting it

----------


## flexandex

> i cant imagine swifto knowingly advising and 19yr old. alot of ppl do not get estro sides, how would you ever know you're prone if you blindly take adex and why would you need it if you're not prone? 
> i'll believe he stated that, if i see swifto posting it


Not everyone is as arogant and hard headed as you are, my friend.

The drawbacks to taking a small dose of a-dex are very small. A good percentage of AAS users follow the protocol of a preventative dose - is it really mindblowing that there is more than one school of thought on the matter?
Atleast you learnt something in this thread eh? A small dose of a-dex as a preventative measure is a perfectly acceptable option.

----------


## dec11

> Not everyone is as arogant and hard headed as you are, my friend.
> 
> The drawbacks to taking a small dose of a-dex are very small. A good percentage of AAS users follow the protocol of a preventative dose - is it really mindblowing that there is more than one school of thought on the matter?
> Atleast you learnt something in this thread eh? A small dose of a-dex as a preventative measure is a perfectly acceptable option.


you really need to look up tht word arrogant in a dictionary and learn how to use it correctly. using powerful drugs unnecessarily is stupid.

now, i couldnt care less about you, the recent posts are aimed at provided correct info to the other kids you're trying to 'advise'

----------


## flexandex

> you really need to look up tht word arrogant in a dictionary and learn how to use it correctly. using powerful drugs unnecessarily is stupid.
> 
> now, i couldnt care less about you, the recent posts are aimed at provided correct info to the other kids you're trying to 'advise'


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arrogant
2: showing an offensive attitude of superiority. 




> now, i couldnt care less about you, the recent posts are aimed at provided correct info to the other kids you're trying to 'advise'





> i dont advise young users. sorry


lol man, i really don't even need to comment.

----------


## dec11

> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arrogant
> 2: showing an offensive attitude of superiority. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol man, i really don't even need to comment.


oh so you just apply it to every statement, because your a silly child and everything you dont agree with is arrogance, in your eyes?
you've just shown your immaturity kiddo, maybe when you do eventually grow up you'll see your arrogance and tht adults dont generally suffer fools gladly

----------


## MACHINE5150

> Im not mad, angry or upset. I just simply hate it when people contradict themselves then want to post a log about it bc all its going to do is brainwash the young less knowledgeable members into thinking its ok. This kid is one of the worst examples to be posting a log. Hes a know it all, yet agrees with everyone who tells him not to use, a hypocrit, then contradicts himself. And remember Machine, theres a huuuge difference between 200lbs and 175. IMO, 200lbs is a good/great base to start with, while 175 is nothing and thats why I stated he doesnt have a base to sustain more than half of his gains he will get. Get me?


yes agreed. What else i should have added is that after college i had to work too much to stay in the gym and loss all my gains anyways.. so it was a waste of time..

----------


## MACHINE5150

> oh so you just apply it to every statement, because your a silly child and everything you dont agree with is arrogance, in your eyes?
> you've just shown your immaturity kiddo, maybe when you do eventually grow up you'll see your arrogance and tht adults dont generally suffer fools gladly


he will suffer the consequences of his actions. No point in going back and forth with him, all it does is bring up this thread unecessarily to the "new posts"

----------


## flexandex

> yes agreed. What else i should have added is that after college i had to work too much to stay in the gym and loss all my gains anyways.. so it was a waste of time..


Its a shame you wern't dedicated enough to keep up with it.
Or that you didnt plan for having to work too much to maintain your gains.

I'll be doing my best to learn from your mistake.

----------


## Swifto

> i cant imagine swifto knowingly advising and 19yr old. alot of ppl do not get estro sides, how would you ever know you're prone if you blindly take adex and why would you need it if you're not prone? 
> i'll believe he stated that, if i see swifto posting it


If I had known this I wouldnt have advised it straight off, no. 

However, if the user is going to use regardless, they should definitely be using an AI. Even moreso at a younger age because of 3 important reasons.

1. Estrogen is very suppressive to the HPTA. Directly at the pituitary impairing endogenous LH and FSH production.

2. Estrogen is directly inhibitive to the leydig cells.

3. Estrogen is responsible primarily for epiphyseal growth plate closure.

Dont think your right here though "flexandex". You shouldnt be using AAS.




> http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t-is-it/page10
> Post 374.
> 
> Edit: another thread i made with the same question: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ar.&highlight= 
> 
> There is conflicting schools of thought on wether to run a-dex either from the beginning or only as sides appear, tbh i'm happy to rely on swiftos advice. Hes pretty ridiculously intelligent.
> Its on swifto's advice that i decided to run a preventative dose of arimidex . If you want to take that up with him.. christ.. god help you.
> 
> 
> An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.


I advise Aromasin at 10mg/ED or EOD, depending on the total dose of aromotasable compounds and how prone to estrogenic sides the user is.

Prevention is better than treatment in my book. The key is to keep estrogen in normal ranges, not destroy it.

Sometimes a DHT based AAS will suffice.




> Not everyone is as arogant and hard headed as you are, my friend.
> 
> The drawbacks to taking a small dose of a-dex are very small. A good percentage of AAS users follow the protocol of a preventative dose - is it really mindblowing that there is more than one school of thought on the matter?
> Atleast you learnt something in this thread eh? A small dose of a-dex as a preventative measure is a perfectly acceptable option.


Your correct.

----------


## Swifto

> he will suffer the consequences of his actions. No point in going back and forth with him, all it does is bring up this thread unecessarily to the "new posts"


I have a lot of PM's from user's around the 18-25 mark who have "f*cked up" and cant get an erection upon request. 

No energy, no energy, loss of strength, anxiety, no confidence, gyno, acne, etc... They thought they had every base covered, f*ck, I thought I did at 19 years old and ended up with a small case of gyno and terrible scaring on my back, chest and shoulders. 

If you have supreme genetics and have one massive base already (which you dont flexandex), you shouldnt be using AAS at 19 years old. I dont care which way or angle you try to claim otherwise, its a risk vs. reward ratio and it vastly in the opposite side of your school of thought.

You have planned well and I hope I dont get a PM from you on eday, or at all, asking my advice as you as well have "f*cked up". 

And lastly, you have a a chip on your shoulder. With your attitude you wont last long here. 

Simple as that.

----------


## dec11

> *he will suffer the consequences of his actions*. No point in going back and forth with him, all it does is bring up this thread unecessarily to the "new posts"


i really hope so. im well and truely finished here now, spoilt teens will always think they are right. i was more interested in steering other naive kids away from it anyhow. i hope they have the sense not to copy

----------


## flexandex

> I have a lot of PM's from user's around the 18-25 mark who have "f*cked up" and cant get an erection upon request. 
> 
> No energy, no energy, loss of strength, anxiety, no confidence, gyno, acne, etc... They thought they had every base covered, f*ck, I thought I did at 19 years old and ended up with a small case of gyno and terrible scaring on my back, chest and shoulders. 
> 
> If you have supreme genetics and have one massive base already (which you dont flexandex), you shouldnt be using AAS at 19 years old. I dont care which way or angle you try to claim otherwise, its a risk vs. reward ratio and it vastly in the opposite side of your school of thought.
> 
> You have planned well and I hope I dont get a PM from you on eday, or at all, asking my advice as you as well have "f*cked up". 
> 
> And lastly, you have a a chip on your shoulder. With your attitude you wont last long here. 
> ...


Yeah you're right. If you notice the posting progression from page 1 to now, i've deffinitely started to become a bitv' a prick. Told myself i'd be mature no matter what.. ahwell its only page 3, once dec moves on i should beable to just have my weekly updates in peace.




> i really hope so. im well and truely finished here now, *spoilt teens will always think they are right.* i was more interested in steering other naive kids away from it anyhow. i hope they have the sense not to copy


I guess the mighty dec11 has never done anything in his life he knew was wrong, but went ahead with it anyway? 
Oh, and before you try to correct me next time - do your research.

----------


## Freewizzle

Hey bro how is everything going, how far along are you? I was also wondering what kind of dosage you are running? Hopefully everything is going well for you man and no more problems along the way!

----------


## Chris4

Hey Flex, not that it matters much but i'm just curious what kinda numbers you're putting up before starting the cycle. i.e bench, dead lift, squat. I just want to see the progression your making. Good luck.

----------


## tjax03

We really need the admin to delete all the argumentative posts in this log to clean it up. It has about 3.5 pages of useless posts.

----------


## SlimJoe

> Wow another 19y/o who thinks they know it all and simply copy and paste sh!t from all over the internet with a stupid chart table and it actually impresses the less educated members by leading them to believe you know what youre talking about and then they tell you "good luck" LOLOL... Try telling me I shouldnt throw stones in a glass house. lol Newb. Good luck with your trt at 21y/o!!



I agree

----------


## DKbuilder

> I agree


Lol'd at avi.

----------


## flexandex

> Hey Flex, not that it matters much but i'm just curious what kinda numbers you're putting up before starting the cycle. i.e bench, dead lift, squat. I just want to see the progression your making. Good luck.


My lifts are subpar as i focus more on mind-muscle, contraction and confusion than progressive overload.
with that exuse in play.. haha.

Bench: 230 for 4 strict, perfectly clean reps.
Deadlift: was around 380 for reps when i used to do them (6months ago). My lower back developement is fine, and i don't much care for oblique work where i can help it. 
squat: olympic style ass to grass 245 for 8 clean reps. I'd assume i could hit 315 for a couple if i only went to 90.

since on cycle, my 2nd chest workout i pushed 240 for 4 strict reps, hoping thatll be on the rise again on monday.
squat is up 10lbs too.

----------


## 9za4ck4

> My lifts are subpar as i focus more on mind-muscle, contraction and confusion than progressive overload.
> with that exuse in play.. haha.
> 
> Bench: 230 for 4 strict, perfectly clean reps.
> Deadlift: was around 380 for reps when i used to do them (6months ago). My lower back developement is fine, and i don't much care for oblique work where i can help it. 
> squat: olympic style ass to grass 245 for 8 clean reps. I'd assume i could hit 315 for a couple if i only went to 90.
> 
> since on cycle, my 2nd chest workout i pushed 240 for 4 strict reps, hoping thatll be on the rise again on monday.
> squat is up 10lbs too.


no offense here man but really? your running all that and this is what your lifting? i understand your looking to gain muscle and to look big but damn man even if you look big your gonna be weak as h*ll. when your big the first thing people ask is whats your bench, what are you gonna say 275 at the end of this? i was easily benching in the 400+ when i was 19 at 5'10 and weighing 187. just saying man

----------


## flexandex

> no offense here man but really? your running all that and this is what your lifting? i understand your looking to gain muscle and to look big but damn man even if you look big your gonna be weak as h*ll. when your big the first thing people ask is whats your bench, what are you gonna say 275 at the end of this? i was easily benching in the 400+ when i was 19 at 5'10 and weighing 187. just saying man


Bodybuilding is an illusion. I could care less what i lift. It is a number and its worthless other than the muscle it can help me grow. 
The kind of people that ask 'hey brahhh what you bench?' are, for the most part, a band of retards.
I take pride in being as big as i am with my strength level.

Also, 400+ @ 187 @ 19? Easily no less, it took zero effort to do it eh?
http://www.goheavy.net/records/viewr...5-4b6800eec8fb
You bench at very top national level, with ease.. hahahahaha.
Don't believe you, but on the offchance (0.1%) you actually did that with respectable form, very impressive. I'd love to beable to put up numbers like that - but its not my priority, it'd just be a bonus, a huge bonus.

----------


## 9za4ck4

> Bodybuilding is an illusion. I could care less what i lift. It is a number and its worthless other than the muscle it can help me grow. 
> The kind of people that ask 'hey brahhh what you bench?' are, for the most part, a band of retards.
> I take pride in being as big as i am with my strength level.
> 
> Also, 400+ @ 187 @ 19? Easily no less, it took zero effort to do it eh?
> http://www.goheavy.net/records/viewr...5-4b6800eec8fb
> You bench at very top national level, with ease.. hahahahaha.
> Don't believe you, but on the offchance (0.1%) you actually did that with respectable form, very impressive. I'd love to beable to put up numbers like that - but its not my priority, it'd just be a bonus, a huge bonus.


that was after running 3 cycles my friend. my max was 415, i focused mainly on upper body back then and did compete in local events, but i did not neglect the lower body deadlift was 480, injured knee didnt allow much for squat. just didnt see the point in trying to appear something your not im referring to being strong.

----------


## stevey_6t9

im still waiting for pictures..

----------


## dec11

> My lifts are subpar as i focus more on mind-muscle, contraction and confusion than progressive overload.
> with that exuse in play.. haha.
> 
> Bench: 230 for 4 strict, perfectly clean reps.
> Deadlift: was around 380 for reps when i used to do them (6months ago). My lower back developement is fine, and i don't much care for oblique work where i can help it. 
> squat: olympic style ass to grass 245 for 8 clean reps. I'd assume i could hit 315 for a couple if i only went to 90.
> 
> since on cycle, my 2nd chest workout i pushed 240 for 4 strict reps, hoping thatll be on the rise again on monday.
> squat is up 10lbs too.


omg, and to think you laughed at my 270kg dlift lol

----------


## dec11

> no offense here man but really? your running all that and this is what your lifting? i understand your looking to gain muscle and to look big but damn man even if you look big your gonna be weak as h*ll. when your big the first thing people ask is whats your bench, what are you gonna say 275 at the end of this? *i was easily benching in the 400+ when i was 19 at 5'10 and weighing 187*. just saying man


 thts a good bench!

----------


## DKbuilder

> no offense here man but really? your running all that and this is what your lifting? i understand your looking to gain muscle and to look big but damn man even if you look big your gonna be weak as h*ll. when your big the first thing people ask is whats your bench, what are you gonna say 275 at the end of this? i was easily benching in the 400+ when i was 19 at 5'10 and weighing 187. just saying man


Because strength reflects on how you look... This board is way too obsessed with how much you lift. It _(CAN)_ be a guildeline as when to use AAS and when not to. I, for example, am very tall (6'3) and I don't bench and squat much so therefore I shouldn't do any AAS? Remember that strength is also partly genetically determined.

----------


## flexandex

> im still waiting for pictures..


We might beable to work something out.
I was thinking i could PM you a link to a private youtube vid, then delete it afterwards.
Atleast you'll be able to atest to the actual quality of my physique - which is very high (no ego).



> omg, and to think you laughed at my 270kg dlift lol


Yeah. A 270kg after years and years of powerlifitng and cycling, with a sloppy physique. Cmon man, you can't be too proud of that? 1rm or reps?
170 from for reps from a bodybuilder who does them at the end of his workout and is also shredded and half your weight. Pathetic weight i agree, i deff wana try get back into them for a few weeks towards the end of my cycle - see what kind'v numbers il put up :Big Grin: .
Didnt you say you were done here? Honestly man, you keep pouncing on these things you think will make me look bad - everytime you end up proven either wrong or ignorant.





> thts a good bench!


Its a lie. He benchs in the top teir of the country with 405. Thatd take some dedication? Yet he deadlifts 480. Those are broken stats.
I'd be willing to be the ROM on his lift would be 3-4inchs.


Just for everyone else who wants to rag on my strength, take a look at this:



> Thanks alot bro. Honestly everyone thinks i lift a lot of weight when i actually i dont. Bench i go up to 315 for reps. I did 405 for four reps like 2 or 3 times in my life lol. Never did dead lift i was supposed to start last back workout but slipped my mind and squat also 315 for reps depends how im feeling depends on if i touch 405


This guy is an absolute monster, shredded and huge. Best physqiue i've seen on this site. Weight is not the be all/end all when it comes to creating an awesome physique.

----------


## dec11

> We might beable to work something out.
> I was thinking i could PM you a link to a private youtube vid, then delete it afterwards.
> Atleast you'll be able to atest to the actual quality of my physique - which is very high (no ego).
> 
> Yeah. *A 270kg after years and years of powerlifitng and cycling, with a sloppy physique*. Cmon man, you can't be too proud of that? 1rm or reps?
> 170 from for reps from a bodybuilder who does them at the end of his workout and is also shredded and half your weight. Pathetic weight i agree, i deff wana try get back into them for a few weeks towards the end of my cycle - see what kind'v numbers il put up.
> Didnt you say you were done here? Honestly man, you keep pouncing on these things you think will make me look bad - everytime you end up proven either wrong or ignorant.
> 
> 
> ...


i only started aas 3yrs ago afta i stopped competing you stupid little fvck. i think you're actually stupid enough to be confusing kg's and lb's. dopey. 270kgs @ 87.6kg bodyweight is no mean feat and representing your country in competition isnt either, if you ever get tht far slabber to me then.
sloppy physique? if your referring to my slin log pic, have you never heard of bulking you brainless misguided little prick. has mummy found out you spent your allowance on gear yet?

----------


## dec11

i came i saw i conquered, lmfao. says all you fvcking stupid child, i hope you get real screwed up from your 1st cycle, depression and all.

i couldnt give a fvck if i get banned, this site has turned to fvckin shite, supporting fvckheads like this

this little asshole is now actually out on the Q&A 'advising' ppl, with all the other assholes cheering him on. i mean, what the fvck is up with that???!!!

----------


## DKbuilder

Inc ban dec11

----------


## stevey_6t9

> We might beable to work something out.
> I was thinking i could PM you a link to a private youtube vid, then delete it afterwards.
> Atleast you'll be able to atest to the actual quality of my physique - which is very high (no ego).


lol whatever you want, i stil think just simple pics wud be better(no homo)

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## 9za4ck4

hahah yeah i just made it all up to try and boost my ego damn you caught me ahhh damn 

dec11 have you not learned by now this guy is way better then all of us and smarter to, no need to get all pissed he will learn when his body starts showing him signs of being 45 to 50 at the age of 21 maybe he will stop and think oh fk i think something is wrong, or continue to be the genius that he is and continue out his nice short life itl be.

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## dec11

> Inc ban dec11


yeah and you're another worthless asshole, who has all the helpful input of laughing at other ppl's avi's. jerk off

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## dec11

> hahah yeah i just made it all up to try and boost my ego damn you caught me ahhh damn 
> 
> dec11 have you not learned by now this guy is way better then all of us and smarter to, no need to get all pissed he will learn when his body starts showing him signs of being 45 to 50 at the age of 21 maybe he will stop and think oh fk i think something is wrong, or continue to be the genius that he is and continue out his nice short life itl be.


yeah your prob right.
ive just seen enough of some of the assholes on here giving advice when they havent a clue what they are doing themselves

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## SirLiftALOT

> yeah your prob right.
> ive just seen enough of some of the assholes on here giving advice when they havent a clue what they are doing themselves


If you dont like what hes doing, then stop following his log. All the vets told him he shouldnt do it, they did their part and his mind is still set. He wants to run AAS let him run AAS. Maybe he ll run this cycle and recover perfectly fine. Maybe he ll complete fck up his body, who knows ? but at the end of the day its nothing off your plate.

Wishing bad on someone wont make BAD happen to them.

OP, i hope you smoothly recover from this cycle and if not, the vets warned you. Life goes on.

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## flexandex

> i only started aas 3yrs ago afta i stopped competing you stupid little fvck. i think you're actually stupid enough to be confusing kg's and lb's. dopey. 270kgs @ 87.6kg bodyweight is no mean feat and representing your country in competition isnt either, if you ever get tht far slabber to me then.
> sloppy physique? if your referring to my slin log pic, have you never heard of bulking you brainless misguided little prick. has mummy found out you spent your allowance on gear yet?





> i came i saw i conquered, lmfao. says all you fvcking stupid child, *i hope you get real screwed up from your 1st cycle, depression and all.*
> 
> i couldnt give a fvck if i get banned, this site has turned to fvckin shite, supporting fvckheads like this
> 
> this little asshole is now actually out on the Q&A 'advising' ppl, with all the other assholes cheering him on. i mean, what the fvck is up with that???!!!


Small minds are the first to respond with anger (SRS, there was a study on it, lulz). 

Nope, not at all. a 270kg @ 87 is a quality lift. just over 3x BW, i'm impressed by that. I assumed you did your 270 at the sloppy-fat state you're in atm.
Yeah i have heard of bulking, the chubby guys who use it as an excuse to slacken their diet and end up with a waist like yours are usually the first to claim it. I 'bulk' too, i just do it properly.
Funny you should say that.. got 10k for a graduation gift, so actually, yeah, she kinda did pay for it! hahahahahah.

If you notice, my advice is based in fact. Remember when you tried to call me out? And you were wrong? yeah, thats because you're still a parrot after 4,000 posts. The advice i give is in situations i am knowledgable about. Simple as that. So far, you're the only one to have been wrong. Perhaps you should 'hate' yourself... nvrmind.. i think you already do.

And the Pièce de résistance is in bold. You are so immature, so _dense_, so... sad? is that the word i'm looking for? that you actually wish horrible effects on me because you don't like my personality over an online forum. You'll notice you are the _only_ one doing it, because its pathetic. You're pathetic. Wishing a 19yr olds life goes to shi/t because of an arguement _you_ started. I think you're a waste of oxygen, but i would hope everything goes well for you in what you do.. because i'm not a vindictive fool. Not to mention _you_ are the one that started flaming. You just can't keep away can you? you keep on coming back, getting angrier and angrier. You're only digging your hole deeper.. christ, you're like a women.





> hahah yeah i just made it all up to try and boost my ego damn you caught me ahhh damn 
> 
> dec11 have you not learned by now this guy is way better then all of us and smarter to, no need to get all pissed he will learn when his body starts showing him signs of being 45 to 50 at the age of 21 maybe he will stop and think oh fk i think something is wrong, or continue to be the genius that he is and continue out his nice short life itl be.


*Lol.* This coming from the guy who had run *three* cycles by age 19 and was still 187 lbs.
Christ, i'm stupid, but even i'm not _that_ stupid!




> lol whatever you want, i stil think just simple pics wud be better(no homo)


Where are your pics brah?  :Big Grin:

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## 9za4ck4

> Small minds are the first to respond with anger (SRS, there was a study on it, lulz). 
> 
> Nope, not at all. a 270kg @ 87 is a quality lift. just over 3x BW, i'm impressed by that. I assumed you did your 270 at the sloppy-fat state you're in atm.
> Yeah i have heard of bulking, the chubby guys who use it as an excuse to slacken their diet and end up with a waist like yours are usually the first to claim it. I bulk too, i just do it properly.
> Funny you should say that.. got 10k for a graduation gift, so actually, yeah, she did! hahahahahah.
> 
> If you notice, my advice is based in fact. Remember when you tried to call me out? And you were wrong? yeah, thats because you're still a parrot after 4,000 posts. The advice i give is in situations i am knowledgable about. Simple as that. So far, you're the only one to have been wrong. Perhaps you should 'hate' yourself... nvrmind.. i think you already do.
> 
> And the Pièce de résistance is in bold. You are so immature, so _dense_, so... sad? is that the word i'm looking for? that you actually wish horrible effects on me because you don't like my personality over an online forum. You'll notice you are the _only_ one doing it, because its pathetic. You're pathetic. Wishing a 19yr olds life goes to shi/t because of an arguement _you_ started. I think you're a waste of oxygen, but i would hope everything goes well for you in what you do.. because i'm not a vindictive fool. Not to mention _you_ are the one that started flaming. You just can't keep away can you? you keep on coming back, getting angrier and angrier. You're only digging your hole deeper..
> ...


you dont know where i started when i started nor the goals i had set. you dont know the time i had set in between cycles or what i ran during my cycles. to be at where i was back then was well needless to say impressive. i never said doing roids at a young age was smart but atleast im not the dumba** doing them now. have fun with your mistakes

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## flexandex

> you dont know where i started when i started nor the goals i had set. you dont know the time i had set in between cycles or what i ran during my cycles. to be at where i was back then was well needless to say impressive. i never said doing roids at a young age was smart but atleast im not the dumba** doing them now. have fun with your mistakes


ntsureifsrs.jpg
This is one of the most idiotic posts i've ever read.
It would take 1,000 words to pick apart everything thats wrong with it..

Bottom line. you ran 3 cycles by age 19. You've seen the way people reacted to my cycle.
Imagine how much respect they have for you doing 3 by age 19 and STILL being 187 lbs.

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## 9za4ck4

more for me then the dumbass who is using, make mistakes you learn from them. and you wanna talk about stats again? quick look at yours now stfu

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## supazeus

someone remove all this arguing and let him run his damn log. who the **** cares? seriously

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## dec11

> Small minds are the first to respond with anger (SRS, there was a study on it, lulz). 
> 
> Nope, not at all. a 270kg @ 87 is a quality lift. just over 3x BW, i'm impressed by that. I assumed you did your 270 at the sloppy-fat state you're in atm.
> Yeah i have heard of bulking, the chubby guys who use it as an excuse to slacken their diet and end up with a waist like yours are usually the first to claim it. I 'bulk' too, i just do it properly.
> Funny you should say that.. *got 10k for a graduation gift*, so actually, yeah, she kinda did pay for it! hahahahahah.
> 
> If you notice, my advice is based in fact. Remember when you tried to call me out? And you were wrong? yeah, thats because you're still a parrot after 4,000 posts. *The advice i give is in situations i am knowledgable about*. Simple as that. So far, you're the only one to have been wrong. Perhaps you should 'hate' yourself... nvrmind.. i think you already do.
> 
> And the Pièce de résistance is in bold. You are so immature, so _dense_, so... sad? is that the word i'm looking for? that you actually wish horrible effects on me because you don't like my personality over an online forum. You'll notice you are the _only_ one doing it, because its pathetic. You're pathetic. Wishing a 19yr olds life goes to shi/t because of an arguement _you_ started. I think you're a waste of oxygen, but i would hope everything goes well for you in what you do.. because i'm not a vindictive fool. Not to mention _you_ are the one that started flaming. You just can't keep away can you? you keep on coming back, getting angrier and angrier. You're only digging your hole deeper.. christ, you're like a women.
> ...


well it wasnt hard to tell your spoilt little [email protected] lol. and if you wana talk 'sloppy' or call me fat, get your pics up and we'll see were we are in comparison in 5 weeks, but im guessing you wont because you're a pathetic little weed.

knowledgable in giving advice??? you stupid fvcking [email protected] lol

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## PT

we debate here, not fight or argue. the next time i see this the person will be suspended from this site

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## flexandex

> well it wasnt hard to tell your spoilt little [email protected] lol. and if you wana talk 'sloppy' or call me fat, get your pics up and we'll see were we are in comparison in 5 weeks, but im guessing you wont because you're a pathetic little weed.
> 
> knowledgable in giving advice??? you stupid fvcking [email protected] lol


Looks like you've calmed your rage atleast, somewhat. Meh, money isn't everything. who really cares if i drive a nice car?
Dec, you have said you're done, 2-3 times already. When are you actually going to give it up? you've no buisness here; you're not intelligent enough to keep up.




> we debate here, not fight or argue. the next time i see this the person will be suspended from this site


Thanks

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## MACHINE5150

WOW.. this thread really turned into a sh!t throwing contest didn't it?

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## dec11

> Looks like you've calmed your rage atleast, somewhat. Meh, money isn't everything. who really cares if i drive a nice car?
> Dec, you have said you're done, 2-3 times already. When are you actually going to give it up? you've no buisness here; *you're not intelligent enough to keep up.*
> 
> 
> Thanks


there ya go PT. can we hit the eject button on him now. bad example, giving bad advice and continuing with the insults and flaming

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## flexandex

> there ya go PT. can we hit the eject button on him now. bad example, giving bad advice and continuing with the insults and flaming


we? you aren't associated with the respected and mature mods / vets of the site man. 
My advice is sound, feel free to try and correct something else only to be confirmed you are infact wrong.

Tbh, this whole fiasco has left a sour taste in my mouth. I'll keep my log private. I'll deff be posting an update telling everyone how much i've gained and how great i feel though everyone month or so  :Smilie:

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## marcus300

> we? you aren't associated with the respected and mature mods / vets of the site man. 
> My advice is sound, feel free to try and correct something else only to be confirmed you are infact wrong.
> 
> Tbh, this whole fiasco has left a sour taste in my mouth. I'll keep my log private. I'll deff be posting an update telling everyone how much i've gained and how great i feel though everyone month or so



Your a 19yr old arrogant kid who doesn't know what he is doing and who doesn't listen to advice, your cycle log is the worse I've seen and to be honest it gives the wrong impression to our young members. You will live and learn and hopefully in time you will mature and understand where you went wrong. I would also prefer ten dec11's to one of you so your wrong yet again.

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## marcus300

:......

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