# FITNESS and NUTRITION FORUM > DIET AND NUTRITION >  Please check my carb cycling diet

## bosh1911

Hi, today I make 2 weeks since I started my cut. I am carb cycling.
First of all a little about me.
Sex= Male
Age= 20
Height= 180cm / 5'11
Weight= CURRENTLY= 80kg / 176lb When I started= 81kg / 178.5lb
Body fat= ~15%

The first week I did 3 days low carb and 1 day high.
On LOW CARB days I had:
protein 252g
carbs 168g
fats 60g
HIGH CARB days I had:
protein 210g
carbs 348g
fats 60g
Those are the total grams a day, I spread that in 4 to 7 meals depending on the day. I was told that it was too much food/calories for my size so next week I lowered everything to:
LOW CARB days:
protein 228g
carbs 150g
fats 54g
HIGH CARB day:
protein 198g
carbs 310g
fats 54g
Also I changed it from 3 low carb days to 4 low carb days.
SO First week I was doing 2220cals on low carb days and 2772cals on high carb days (calculated using 1g protein = 4 cal, 1g carbs = 4 cal and 1g fats= 9 cal)
And now from my second week I am doing 1998cals on low carb day and 2518cals on high carb days. this is an estimate of course, I can't just eat EXACTLY that amount every day. 

My split is:
Monday = legs + cardio 10-15min HIIT
Tuesday = chest + triceps + MAYBE cardio 10-15min HIIT (legs are dead this day)
Wednesday = Deadlift + rear delt + abs + cardio 10-15min HIIT
Thursday = Back + biceps + cardio 10-15min HIIT
Friday = Shoulders + cardio 10-15min HIIT
Also I try to do an extra 5-10 min of light intensity constant speed cardio after HIIT to keep my heart rate up for a bit longer. I do all my cardio on the bicycle.

I eat as clean as I can, most carbs come from oats and wholemeal bread, the rest can vary from sweet potatoes to rice to some oat and almond cereal bars. Proteins come mainly from red meat or chicken, tuna and egg whites. Only 75g or no more than 100g from protein shakes. Also I am taking hydro whey, if this makes a difference. And for fats 2/3 comes from what I eat and I fill the rest with almonds before bed. I only have 1 or 2 cheat meals but in the same day and only once every 2 weeks. And my cheat meals are nothing like maccas, ice cream or chocolate. they are more like a chicken schnitzel burger or a banana cake... ONLY thing I seem to not be able to stop having is a low fat vanilla yoghurt which I use the minimum just to be able to eat my oats (100g of oats in the morning)

Supplements I take:
Fish oil
elastamine (for joints)
scivation xtend (BCAAs during workout)
Milk thistle/st mary's thistle
liquid multivitamin every second day
I am taking a medication for acne which is doxycycline, mentioning just in case.

My first to weeks I was taking CLA 4.5/5g a day. But I will have a break from that. And also took albuterol and clen but didn't do anything to me (just like if I was taking nothing). this is another topic tho, I am currently trying to figure out what's wrong with me, and I know for sure its not the clen or the albuterol. But I am having a break from those for at least 2 weeks and see what happens.

Without putting into account albuterol, clen or CLA. IF my diet is good, how much weight should I expect to lose a week? or how long until I reach 10%? AND PUTTING into account albuterol or clen and CLA, how much should I be dropping a week? Does it make much of a difference?

But more importantly. How is my diet??? what should I change? is it fine? I have only lost 1kg / 2.2lb since I started (exactly 2 weeks ago)

thanks in advanced. And do you need more information?

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## --->>405<<---

bosh welcome man!

very thorough post  :Smilie: 

based on ur stats 176lbs 15%bf u have 149.6lbs LBM. ur rough maintenance cals are around 2244cals per day (LBM x 15)

IMO ur "low" carb days are not low enuff for optimal fat loss. my preferred method of carb cycling for fat loss involves depleting muscle glycogen. eating 150g carbs per day will NOT allow u to accomplish this IMO. also at 150g carbs per day i see no need for a refeed every 5 days. the purpose of a refeed is to replenish muscle glycogen and stimulate the metabolism after being in a deficit of cals for a period of time. 

based on the rough maintenance of 2244cals IMO ur eating too many calories which is why ur not losing fat at a faster rate. i have 180lbs LBM (30lbs more than u) and cut at 2200cals.

a suggestion i have for u is to consider restructuring ur carb cycle to a 7 day cycle instead of 5. have 3 consecutive low carb days consisting of meat and veggies ONLY (NO STARCH). combine this with a glycogen depletion workout and cardio to help precipitate fatloss during the dieting phase of ur cycle. then refeed and eat moderate amts of carbs to help restore muscle glycogen to replace potentially lost LBM. 

after this the cycle will repeat.

theres a thread where i explain this type carb cycle diet in greater detail i suggest u read and then repost here for discussion  :Smilie: 

the thread is titled: "hey 405, what is carb cycling?" i will bump it to the thop for u  :Smilie:

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## bosh1911

Thanks for your response, I have seen your thread. Its very informative, very good : )

When you say my maintenance cals are around 2244 cals (LBM x 15). I need to base my diet on this? lets say 500cal deficit it would be 2244 - 500 = 1744. And this 1744 would be low carb day or moderate carb day?

Assuming I understand. Reconstructing my carb cycle diet following your advice it would look something like this:

mon - High Carb
tue - moderate/maintance?
wed - moderate/maintance?
thu - moderate/maintance?
fri - low carb
sat - low carb
sun - low carb

Low Carb day: 1739 cals
protein - 280g - 1120 cal
carbs - 40g - 160 cal
fats - 51g - 459 cal
Is fat and carb still to high? Should I stick with 40g carbs, decrease fats to 42g and rise protein to 300g?. Which totals (protein= 1200, carbs= 160, fats= 378 (if 42g)) = 1738 total cals

Moderate carb day: This is maintaining same calories as low carb day? or slightly higher?
protein - 230g - 920 cal
carbs - 90g - 360 cal
fats - 51g - 459 cal
totals 1739 calories

If moderate carb day calories are slightly higher I would keep 90g carbs and 51g fats but rise protein to 280g which would give me a total of 1939 calories which is exactly 200 more calories than low carb. or should it be even higher?

and High Carb day I would look like:
protein - 260g - 1040 cal
carbs - 160g - 640 cal
fats - 51g - 459 cal
which totals 2219 calories. which is 480 more calories than low carb day (1739 cal) or again, should it be higher calories? if so increase carbs right?

I am a bit confused with from what to chose my deficit (chose from LBM, TDEE or BMI). How how much should my deficit be? You state that you have done a deficit of up to 950 cals which I found to be a lot. On my reconstructed diet my deficit is of 500 cal taken from the maintenance cals you gave me (2244 cals - btw how you calculated LBM and that "x 15"?). I am not too sure how many calories, protein and fats I should be taking on moderate day as I haven't really looked into a carb cycling diet with a moderate day in between. And as for high carb days I usually double carbs, lower protein and maintain fats to give me a total 400-500 more calories than in low carb days.

And to be clear. On moderate days I only get my carbs from veggies and fruits? or half that and starch carbs? Low carb days all veggies and fruits right? High carb days about 50g of the carbs have to be from veggies/fruits. And veggies AND fruits or only veggies?

And my last question is, will I be able to retain most of my muscle on this new diet?

Thanks again, This changes the picture of my understanding quite a bit and I am the type of person that likes to know every detail to achieve perfection (or the best possible). Also my English is not that great so it makes it a bit difficult sometimes too. Hopefully I got it right tho : ) And sorry for so many question, you don't have to elaborate if you don't have the time, I understand, a big yes or no will be enough. : )

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## --->>405<<---

i suggest u read "hey 405 what is carb cycling?" again

u got some things right and others wrong. 

u use ur maintenance cals to establish a deficit. if 2244cals is ur maintenance then id prob run the deficit at 1800cals to start. this 1800cals is ur moderate day. build ur diet based on 1800 cals. 

*read hey 405 what is carb cycling ..*

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## bosh1911

> i suggest u read "hey 405 what is carb cycling?" again
> 
> u got some things right and others wrong. 
> 
> u use ur maintenance cals to establish a deficit. if 2244cals is ur maintenance then id prob run the deficit at 1800cals to start. this 1800cals is ur moderate day. build ur diet based on 1800 cals. 
> 
> *read hey 405 what is carb cycling ..*


Current stars:
Height= 180cm / 5'11
Weight= CURRENTLY= 80kg / 176lb
Body fat= ~14.5% (I don't think I am 14, or maybe I am)

I've lost 1.5kg since I started the diet, I can see a small changes in some parts of my body but nothing significant. I hope this will make the difference.

BMR = 2246 CAL
TDEE = 2902 CAL
Calculated with 80kg at 15% and the 1.55 multiplier for TDEE

Mod - 2200 cal
P - 300
C - 135
F - 51
High - 2650 cal
P - 300
C - 250
F - 50
Low - 1850 cal
P - 300
C - 50
F - 50

Hi, I read it again I hope I got it right this time. Monday will be high, next 3 days mod and last 3 low. Was thinking on lowering the carbs from 135g to 125g on moderate day, which will sum up 2150 calories. Would that be better?

As for training, if you check my current split it won't be very effective to deplete glycogen stores. Should I stick to my routine? Or will it be much more beneficial to change the split to something like:
Monday - legs + deadlift + shoulders
Tuesday - chest + back
Wednesday - arms + abs
Thursday - rest
Friday - legs + shoulders 5-6 sets of 15 reps with 45-60sec rest per muscle group to deplete muscle glycogen stores
Saturday - chest + back ( + maybe arms) 5-6 sets of 15 reps with 45-60sec rest per muscle group
Sunday - rest
doing HIIT 3-5 days a week. And Friday to Sunday are my low carb days.

I am a bit confused with that because in one post you say 5-6 sets to deplete muscle glycogen stores then in other you say "according to lyle macdonald it requires approx 10-12sets (45+ secs under tension) to deplete muscle glycogen"

Anyway, can you please tell me this if this is correct or not, and if there is anything wrong please tell me what so I can know what to look for to fix it.


Thanks again.

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## --->>405<<---

[QUOTE=bosh1911;6192856]




> I am a bit confused with that because in one post you say 5-6 sets to deplete muscle glycogen stores then in other you say "according to lyle macdonald it requires approx 10-12sets (45+ secs under tension) to deplete muscle glycogen"


to fully deplete muscle glycogen (according to Lyle MacDonald) it takes 10-12sets per body part. could it be possible the post u were referring to was me saying do 5-6 sets per body part for that day? because it is a* 2DAY depletion workout.* not 1 day..

to accomplish this u must do *5-6 sets per body part TOTAL body 2 days in a row*..

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## bosh1911

[QUOTE=--->>405<<---;6193234]


> to fully deplete muscle glycogen (according to Lyle MacDonald) it takes 10-12sets per body part. could it be possible the post u were referring to was me saying do 5-6 sets per body part for that day? because it is a* 2DAY depletion workout.* not 1 day..
> 
> to accomplish this u must do *5-6 sets per body part TOTAL body 2 days in a row*..


sweet thanks, all clear now. And about my diet, is it ok? I will stick to it and post results next week.

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## --->>405<<---

176lbs 15%bf = 149.6lbs LBM

maintenance (rough starting) = LBM x 15 = 2244cals

BMR = 1835cals

ur cals may be a bit high. personally id change ur moderate day to 1900-2000cals (which may need adjusting but see how u do). this will also affect every other day. ur gonna have to re-do it  :Frown:   :Smilie:

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## bosh1911

New one, hopefully this one isn't too low (its not too high for sure). I follow my diet with 99% accuracy, if necessary I will stay up one extra hour to get in what I haven't. It seems pretty low to me tho, I am risking all my hard gained muscles with this.
*1605 cals on low days, only 25g carbs... pretty low*. When you said to lower to 1900-2000 I tried to lower carbs more than anything, is this right? or should I up a bit carbs and lower fats? what about protein?

The % is of total calories per day.

*Moderate
P - 270g - 1080 cal > 55.52%
C - 115g - 460 cal > 23.65%
F - 45g - 405 cal > 20.82%

Total Calories = 1945

High
P - 270g - 1080 cal > 44.81%
C - 220g - 880 cal > 36.51%
F - 50g - 450 cal > 18.67%

Total Calories = 2410

Low
P - 275g - 1100 cal > 68.53%
C - 25g - 100 cal > 6.23%
F - 45g - 405 cal > 25.23%

Total Calories = 1605*



Sorry to keep bothering you, but I am kind of a "perfectionist" (I seek perfection within imperfection, because I know that nothing is perfect). And *thanks again*, something worth mentioning is that on low carbs day at the gym by the end of the session I feel I am about to faint, no energy at all and I take scivation xtend (BCAAs) during workout. So with this reconstructed diet it will be worst on low carb days and might even affect me on moderate days.

Also I am taking about half what I eat before gym and other half after... Should it be more like 2/3 before gym and the rest after gym? (not too important I suppose)

AND I don't remember if I said this, but *I am natural*. Have never touched anything, only tried clen (2 days - just testing it) and tried albuterol which had no effect on me (not sure if my body or product).

*Thank you!!!!!!*

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## --->>405<<---

u still have some fixing to do. i think u need to re-read the carb cycling thread. the numbers i used apply to me and me only. except for the carbs. 

think of it like this:

its a carb cycle diet. IMO 150g carbs is "moderate" for a fair amt of people regardless of LBM and total body weight. i see it as more of a gray area. u need to eat around 1950cals on ur moderate day. so:

1. u know ur gonna get 600 of those cals from carbs (150g). 

2. u know ur gonna keep dietary fat at 20% (1950 x .2 = 390cals / 9(cals per gram for fat)) = 43g fat

3. protein is everything left: 600cals from carbs + 390cals from fat = 990cals; (1950 - 990 = 960cals(from protein)); 960/4(cals per gram pro) = 240g protein

therefore:

*MOderate Day:*
1950cals
240g pro
150g carbs
43g fat

*LOW DAY:*
240g pro
50g carbs (veg only)
43g fat

*HIGH DAY:*
240g pro
250g carbs
43g fat

step1: figure out ur maintenance cals
step2: establish deficit for moderate day
step3: build moderate day with 150g carbs and 20% total cals from fat, protein gets whats left
step4: manipulate carbs on low day by eliminating all starch and replacing with 50g carbs from green veg, the cals will by default be reduced and it really doesnt matter what they are. we are dealing specifically with the carb macro only at this point.
step5: do the same thing with HIGH day but instead of eliminating starch, eliminate veggies and replace with 250g worth of complex starchy carbs. lets the cals fall where they will. 

*KEEP FAT AND PROTEIN THE SAME FOR ALL 3 TYPES OF DAYS!*

THIS SHOULD eliminate all confusion..  :Smilie:  read it, know it , live it  :Wink:

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## bosh1911

mistake

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## bosh1911

> live it


Should have done this about 1 month ago but was too busy enjoying my cut results hehe...

Anyway, I just wanted to say THANK YOU, THANK YOU VERY MUCH 405... you helped me heaps on my diet, with so much info out there its hard to know who is correct or simply know what is the best for you, as you don't know if the info out there is intended to nattys, non-nattys, hectos, mesos, endos, etc... (and most of us don't even get to know what type of body we have until we start dieting consistently, regarding if its a bulk, cut or maintenance diet).

Anyway, my cut lasted 14 weeks, first 2 weeks I made almost no progress as my diet wasn't good, but then with the help of 405 I fixed my diet and started shredding the fat. Past half way on the cut I stopped losing weight so I lowered the calories by 200 on every day except high carb day + added some circuits to my routine 3x a week and it made all the difference. (3-4 sets of a circuit consisting of squats, bb press, bb rows, push ups and deadlifts, in that order)

So, in 14 weeks I went down from 81.5kg/179.6 lb to 70.5kg/155.4 lb. I believe I didn't lose more than 0.5kg of muscle (0.5kg at most!) as I retained almost all my strength, now that I started my clean bulk and my glycogen stores are full I was surprised to be lifting as much weight as before the cut on almost all exercises on week 1! And well, how many Kg where from water and glycogen depletion at the end of my cut? certainly no more than 3kg MAX as I always kept my self VERY hydrated from beginning to end. (BTW, correct me if I am wrong with my estimate of 3kg). Anyway, if I am correct this means I lost a minimum of 7.5kg of fat. Considering I am natural and that I barely lost any muscle I believe the diet was a complete success.

This was my first dedicated diet and my intention was to get to 10% or visible abs. I was fatter than what I thought so I didn't reach 10%, but abs showed and I look quite defined so I am pretty happy with the results even tho I didn't go as low as I wanted (I believe I got to ~11.5%).

I didn't go any lower because I wanted to start bulking to get bigger (felt pretty small on my last weeks of the cut and that made want to end it) as I am not too big, and I wont lie, I had enough of low carb days too!

Now I am doing the cleanest cut possible in order to try to maintain body fat and that so I can get to a lower % on my next cut, also easier this way.

PS: I did try clen but it was fake so nothing happened with it, and on my LAST week I got my hands on some albuterol and used it for the last 3 days of my cut. I still consider myself to be natural as the amount I took was insignificant.

Once again, Thanks for everything 405!!!

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## --->>405<<---

ur welcome dude!  :Smilie:  thx for the feedback!

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## GirlyGymRat

bosh...you are a model member. ask question/clarify and do. update status, tweak and confirm and then do. 

Congrats on your progress!!!

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