# STEROIDS FORUM > IGF-1 LR3, HGH, and INSULIN QUESTIONS >  Why run HGH and IGF-1 at the same time?

## chronoz

I've poked around a bit on the site, I'm sure this is here somewhere, but the search and me are fighting....

So... Why would you run HGH and IGF-1 at the same time? Aside from the fact that you can run HGH pretty much forever and your limited to 50 days on IGF. I can't really see any reason why you would run both at the same time when they both do the same thing, aside from maybe having money to burn/waste. 
Well HGH is the precursor to IGF but you see where I'm going with this. Wouldn't it be cheaper to run just IGF for 50 days and overlap with HGH a week before the end of your IGF cycle till a week into your next IGF cycle as sort of a bridge? or just run one or the other overall? 

If I'm missing something I'd appreciate any input and or ideas, and comments.

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## x_SANDMAN_x

I question ive been searching my ass off for an answer, obviously, no one's got an answer  :Frown:

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## bighauss

I posted this in another thread. Maybe it will offer some help.
IGF1-LR3 What is it?

IGF-1 is basically a polypeptide hormone that has the same some of the same molecular properties as insulin . IGF dose actually stand for insulin-like growth factor. IGF-1 is mainly responsible for long bone growth in children and it also affects muscle growth and repair of adults. Long R3 IGF-1 is a more potent version of IGF-1. It's chemically altered i like to think "enhanced" to prevent deactivation by IGF-1 binding proteins in the bloodstream. This results in a longer half-life of 20-30 hours instead of 20 min... So that means a far more effective version than the short chain we we re perhaps more familiar with.

IGF1-LR3 What does it do?

IGF-1LR3 greatly boosts muscle mass by inducing a state of muscle hyperplasia (increase in number of new muscle cells) in the MUSCLE WHERE ITS INJECTED!!
So think of it as muscle cell proliferation, or even the splitting of the cell so 1 becomes 2... Thats why its perfect on cycle when you get increased muscle cell growth too.
But why is IGF better than HGH? The reason being is HGH causes IGF levels to rise in the liver first, then then the muscle, Whereas IGF-LR3 causes localised IGF levels to rocket.

What other benefits?

Taken froma study in germany..

"Tissue build up is one of the main features of IGF-1, so I'd say it's of greater value. IGF-1 can genetically change muscular and cellular counts within the body; it can also enhance the body's ability to regenerate damaged tissue. In fact, IGF-1 is now under intensive research for its potential to repair tissue in burn patients, and for its regenerative effects on AIDS patients suffering from muscular wasting. Immediate effects are, of course, impossible to observe since it takes a respectable amount of time to see any visible changes in muscular repair"
But muscle size and shape can be seen quite quickly through a course of IGF-LR3




Doseage and use..

The best dose for muscle cell proliferation is 40mcg bi-lateraly for men, and 20mcg for women... so 40mcg in one bicep and 40mcg in the other Pre-workout.
And 20 in each bicep for women. This can be done in any 2 matching muscle groups.
This should be done for 40 days max and then have 30 days off.
What you need to be carefull of is adequate carb intake when using IGF, Especialy this version as its long lasting, it will literaly leech glucose to cause its localised muscle enhancing effects, similar to the way in wich insulin works, This goes on for 7-10 hours, You should take in 20g of carbs 5 grams slow release and 15 g fast, for every hour its active for the first 7 hours.. so it looks like this.

Based on a mans dose, so a women halfs this.

Pre-workout.. 40mcg bi-lateraly. Then pwo meal of 40g carbs, 30 slow release and 10g fast release carbs... that covers you for 2 hours.

Post-workout. 40 grams carbs 30 grams low gi or slow release, and 10g fast release carbs. That covers you for 2 more hours..

2 Hours later so 4 hours since the injection the same again... that takes you up to 6 hours, at this point just consume carbs when you feel the need... if you feel light headed, or any signs of hypoglycemia.


Some people prefer to dose 70 g carbs with there pre-workout meal, and 70 grams of carbs 4 hours later, but themost anabolic option is the one i outlined, causing a constant supply of everything you need to maximise its effects.

Only dose on workout days and a maximum of 3 times a week.

Use a 1" insulin syringe and only inject directly into muscle, and reconstitue with Acetic acid, once reconstituted keep refrigerated and use within 6 months.

Why dose pre-workout?

When do you get muscle cell proliferation? This is when the muscle actualy breaks down during intense exercise, this causes localised IGF-1 levels to sky rocket, Thats why Arachadionic acid works, because it increased localised IGF-1 levels, causing an increased inflammatry response to muscle degradation or breakdown, So by using IGF-LR3 pre workout you recieve the benefits of Hyperplasia straight away, without waiting for nearly 2 hours to use your IGF.. So you increase the window of growth time period, during its most significant period.. You have just provided your muscle everything it needs for muscle growth at EXACTLY the right time.. before its broken down. Plus by eating your Pre workout meal you fuel your workout and allow for your muscles to take advantage of the huge pumps IGF-LR3 can cause as your muscles are flooded with nutrients, blood and increased localised IGF-1 levels.

Russians experiences.

Using the protocol i outlined above, after weeks of experimenting and trying new ideas i found great success.
I focused on my triceps and biceps, In 4 weeks of the above protocol i added a depth to my tricep horseshoe and shape that i havent seen in many other bodybuilders, and i increased the severity of my bicep peak, 0.5" increase in arm size, now that may not seem much, but when you think on most anabolic cycles that last 5 weeks or more those kind of gains are not really that common, i saw that as a big result especialy as i ran it stand alone, With no additional anabolics.

The next time i run it, i will incorporate Need2slin to increase liver igf-1 levels and increased insulin response so increasing the effectiveness of the igf-lr3.

This is a post from another forum, guy called RussianStar 





and....................



Talked to my orthopedic doc, he said there are several benefits from running both. HGH for the muscle and leaning.

IGF LR3 for repairing muscle, tendons, etc.
also IGF LR3 helps the body produce HGH which would mean you should have to use fewer IU to get results.......

Not haven't seen that in print but he is the doc!

hope it helps

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