# STEROIDS FORUM > ANABOLIC STEROIDS - QUESTIONS & ANSWERS > EDUCATIONAL THREADS >  Steroids & Hair Loss

## The Iron Game

When talking about hairloss the first point to be remembered is that every individual will be effected in different ways to different steroids . The most important factor is whether or not you are genetically predisposed to male pattern baldness. This can be done by following the family history in the older male generation in your direct family. If you are not predisposed naturally you have the potential of not being effected by steroids, if you are then you are not so lucky and the use of steroids is likely to speed up the process of becoming bald. 


Even if you are predisposed there are alot of precautions that can be taken when using steroids to slow down or prevent the hair from falling out. These will be talked about below in general and with specific steroids. Remember certain treatments may be effective with some steroids but may actually speed up the loss when combined with others. 

If you are worried about losing hair when cycling it is better to stack items that you know are safe and not to go overboard. It will be difficult to anticipate which steroid is causing the hair loss when using numerous steroids or using ones that havent been used before. 

How do you know when you are losing hair? There are several ways to monitor hairloss and when it is starting. Firstly when you wake up examine the sheets and the pillows and determine whether or not there is excess hair there. Also when taking a shower or a bath monitor your hair going down the drain. Another dead give away is an itchyness of the head which can be quite irritating.

There are so many questions asking if primo or deca or anavar will cause hairloss. These questions are pointless in the sense that while primo may be ok for 70 or 80% of the people in can cause devestating consequences in the fewer who may not have the problem on testosterone . It is also dependent on the dose but for sure if higher doses are causing hairloss then so are smaller doses but just not as rapid. 

*Testosterone:* The King of All

Unfortunately this King has known to bring rapid hairloss in large numbers of individuals. The good thing is that hairloss can be controlled very effectively when using finasteride (propecia, proscar). Finasteride inhibits the 5AR enzyme which is responsible for the conversion of testosterone to DHT. For this reason finasteride will work when used with steroids that convert to dht via the 5AR enzyme. On to dHT, in a nut shell it is both hard on the hair as well as to the prostate. Saw Palmetto (SP) is another good prostate relief as well as being very cheap and is also said to reduce dht conversion from testosterone. On precaution if predisposed it is not wise to mix nandrolone with testosterone.

*Deca:* Hmmmmm


What can be said about this steroid. There is so much misconception that deca is the safest steroid, both on the hair and on the body. Let the myths lie. Although deca does not convert to DHT it does converts to DHN. DHN is less androgenic than deca. The more androgenic the more likely to cause hairloss but this is somewhat a generalisation as androgenic activity is not the only influence of hair loss. Proscar and deca do not mix well. The reason for this was touched upon above "For this reason finastride will work when used with steroids that convert to dht via the 5AR enzyme." Now if the conversion of nandrolone to DHN is prevented then there is more active nandrolone (which is by far more androgenic than nandrolone. If you are noticing hairloss when on deca it is best to discontinue use. 

Spironolactone or flutamide (applied topically) are effective in treating and limiting some damage on the hairline. They are both said to compete with the steroid used for androgen receptors located in the scalp. 

DHT Derivatives

Winstrol does not convert to DHT although it is a DHT derivative, this is also the case with primobolan . To Finasteride or not to finastride? Well I mentioned above that Finasteride will only work to prevent the conversion of DHT by the 5AR enzyme. It wont do much to reduce hair loss on these because they are already a DHT derivitives. The hairloss is much to do with it stimulating the androgen receptors in the scalp.The best way to treat hair problems on these steroids are with Spironolactone or flutamide. Nizorol shampoo (or similar) is also good to some extent. Dont be fooled by either winstrol or primo. They can both be quite harsh on the hair.

Lastly there are certain topical solutions that can be used to try and bring about regrowth of hair. 

Peace

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## Adaptek

Great post!!

I use Nizoral shampoo 2% when on a cycle, I find this helps a lot.
I shampoo with it 2-3 times a day.

Bump!

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## pureanger

Great POst on hair lost

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## Adaptek

bump cause we nah want no bald head

this should be sticky

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## Triple Plates

Awsome post IG. I think it should be put in the educational threads  :Wink/Grin:

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## DEI

Interesting facts indeed

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## The original jason

IG good post bro, It seems to be one of the most asked questions and I have looked into it alot like you. There is some post over in the elite archives that went on for 6 pages arguing the nandrolone conversion and if trenbolene was harsh on the hair it has alot in that thread to learn if anyone is interested. Personally I suffer not to much even now for me with 1/2 finastride tab and only test prop 100mg eod I get some hair loss I have been experimenting for ages and trying to find a suitable combination I really dont think there is one.

I have to argue the MPB factor about hairloss for sure I just think it is down to individual, I have looked through both sides of my family asked my parents and my granparents and there is nothing no mpb in my family not even one person.

I think just in general the conversion of test to dht the itchines in the scalp and the slight hairloss is inevitable I dont get any in the bed or anything just when i wash my hair and I use nizoral also for what its worth everything I have tried including topicals DO NOT WORK DO NOT SLOW IT DOWN DO NOT STOP IT in fact do nothing whatsoever. I have currently ytied dropping the test real low and added \finastride like I said above no change so far thats 2 weeks in maybe its still loss from the hair that was put into the telogen phase by the excess dht when I was using the test without the finastride.

My advice to anyone as the man says u have to experiment see what works for you everyone is different no one can really answer

peace
Jason

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## Mighty Joe

I don't know, but shaved heads are in these days anyhow! So fuck it!

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## NightOp

this is a really old post, but I'm gonna bump it.... found it by diggin around randomly.. (im bored).

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## Ajax

TIG, thatnks fo rhte post. NightOp, thanks for the bump. My friend was asking me just this info...

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## Nate_Dog

Good on you for bumping it. 

Awsome thread!

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## Iron horse

I just got out of the shower and damn am I loosing enough of my hair!!  :Frown: 

bump this for the soon to be shiney iron horse

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## ShowBiz

Iron horse, updating you on my progress with Beta Sitosterol unfortunally i added Propecia with it (Proscription from the Doc). But i been taking two tabs of Beta Sitosterol & Propecia and the head itching is gone and hair falling is to the minimal. I haven't seen regrowth yet. Been doing this for 2 weeks.

ShowBiz

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## NightOp

:Smilie:  there is sooo much info in these old threads, if only everyone would look before asking in a new thread... I'm guilty of this myself, but I still preach against it  :Big Grin:  and tryto dig around before I pop a new thread.

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## Nico

Im lookkin into using propecia during my next cycle.

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## Tankass

Great Post

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## CarbonCopy

> _Originally posted by The Iron Game_ 
> *DHT Derivatives
> 
> Winstrol does not convert to DHT although it is a DHT derivative, this is also the case with primobolan . To Finasteride or not to finastride? Well I mentioned above that Finasteride will only work to prevent the conversion of DHT by the 5AR enzyme. It wont do much to reduce hair loss on these because they are already a DHT derivitives. The hairloss is much to do with it stimulating the androgen receptors in the scalp.The best way to treat hair problems on these steroids are with Spironolactone or flutamide. Nizorol shampoo (or similar) is also good to some extent. Dont be fooled by either winstrol or primo. They can both be quite harsh on the hair.
> 
> *


I was never really clear on this part.. Does this mean that Finasteride will not work on DHT derivatives (Winstrol, primo, OX)?Can someone please explain this?

Peace,
CC

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## Dr.Evil

this is good info. i copied it to the educational threads area.

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## Van Damme

How does Nizoral shampoo 2% help hair loss? I thought it was a dandruff control shampoo?

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## sleazyrider

bump for that last question by van damme!

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## DATY Fanatic

Truly a great post! I dont mean to rant here, but

I'm 28 and balding considerably so I'm quite interested in this subject. My research has only just begun. This thread has helped clarify a few things that I didnt fully 100% grasp. Thanks! Its amazing how the theories start to formulate in ones head. Im generally considered to be pretty smart, but Ive had to reread this shit over and over again. Then as soon as I think Im getting the picture, Ill find some other tidbit. Im even getting suspicious of ephedrine! This issue is complex for everyoneotherwise the Docs would have resolved it a long time ago. 

I think the real challenge here is that we are talking about treating a symptom, and not just a singular problem. The problem could be different for many peoplesteroids , alcohol, stress, obsessive ejaculation (Ill take the baldness here), genes, medications, and the list goes on 

So I might be a little late to this thread, but I'd be willing to scan/copy and post partial information on hair loss & DHT that's provided in a recent Anabolics book. Probably breaking some laws here but if anyone wants it, I'll do it. Now Im a newbie and I have a lot to learn, but I think this site is incredible so being able to contribute will actually be an honor. Really! Im so new Ive never even done a cycleactually waiting to get BF% down a little more first. That should buy some time to develop a theoretical plan of attack. 

IMO I think its safe to say that all anabolic /androgenic steroids can potentially promote hair loss for some people while other people simply wont experience this problem. Yeah thats right, I read thatand I agree with it too. Its the variablesgenetics, dosage, compounds, etc. I think Jasons analysis is right on the money.

Personally I dont really think that losing hair is that big of a deal. Right now I have the clippers for a short trim. If it gets worse, I have a razorMach 3, baby! If I were single, Id probably think differently, though. Although the thought of being able to do something (with or without gearor honey) to slow/stop or even reverse the process is too much to ignore. Plus I wouldnt mind being the guy that uncovered the miracle treatment. More realistically I dont mind being the guy that wasted time looking for it. I plan to consult a few physicians/endocrinologist for more information and references. Ill let you know if anything dramatic develops. 

Sleeping easyon my hairy little pillow. Peace!

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## chwester

Green tea extract and Nettles extract also stop the conversion of test to dht.
The best info I've ever seen on stoping and reversing hairloss is Will Brink's site www.brinkzone.com 
He has lots of good honest info and lots of VERY interesting articles
Do yourself a favor and check it out.

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## gorilla

the active ingredient in nizoral shampoo is ketoconazole which is actually an anti-fungal drug, which is why it is used to treat dandruff caused by fungus. Another property that ketoconazole has is an antiandrogenic effect thus blocking the androgenic hormone DHT from the hair on the scalp!!!

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## the original jason

nizoral doesnt work if u ask me possibly the absorbtion factor of actually getting enough of the active ingredient into the scalp

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## dtdionne

Great thread, check out minoxidil.com, its Dr. Lee's site and he has some new topical products as well that i am about to start trying. I FIRMLY believe that a topical type 1 and type 2 dht inhibitor is the way to go....for bb....I have been fighting mpb, quite successfully since i was 24, im now 32 and most would say "NO WAY, really?" My dad is bald, both my grandfathers are bald and my younger brother is bald and i was really thinning (frontal) at 24. I started on rogaine and my girfriend at the time couldnt believe the results, so many new hairs were coming in up front that i had to comb what little hair i had left forward cause they were pushing my hair down. I then started on propecia when i was 28 and to date i havent lost anything on my crown. I am coming off of the propecia, and that scares the crap out of me but i really think its messing me up, especially the last 8 mon to a year. Mar of this year my sex drive vanashed and it took about a month for the doc to figure it out...he thought it was stress....but it was really low test (200) and thats when my dance with anabolics began. He put me on hrt 1cc cyp a week and when he started this i really had no idea what it was, i just figured it was like an antibiotic, well about 5 weeks, 20 lbs and considerable hairloss later i knew differently and started researching it. i told him that i didnt want to lose my hair over this so he stopped it and i lost most of my gains but the shedding stopped.
I belive that i read that propecia effectively reduces 60% of type I dht in the scalp and no type II, plus i belive that propecia initially raises test levels due to less being converted to dht, but this also means that more test can be converted to estro which ends up shutting natural test down or could shut natural test down. I personally want dht in my system for many reasons, i just dont want it in my scalp. Here's what led me to this:

Dec 2001, i ran out of my propecia which i normally just go refill as I had done so for the last 2 years. Well i was really busy and just didnt fill it till the middle of Feb. So, after about 1 week of being off propecia my prostate began to ache and started to hurt after 10 days then got all better after about 18 days which was about the middle of dec. In about the middle of jan my strength was increasing, i was getting bigger and i was leaning up, i was at about 9-10% end of jan and got down two 4-5% by the middle of march. I developed slight acne on the backs of my arms and was being approached every day at the gym about steroids or cutters and no one believed me saying no one gets bigger while leaning up without steroids. A guy offered me $1000 if i came up clean on a blood test and i said "lets go right now" cause not only was i not on anything, i didnt even know anthing about that stuff. As well durring the "off propecia" time digestive problems cleared up and my sex drive was better then it had been since i could remember...strange thing on the sex drive, before starting propecia i read that a side effect was decreased libido which i WELCOMED with open arms cause, a strong libid + no girlfriend = a gift that keeps on giving, if you know what i mean and i guess that since i didnt have a marked, noticable decrease in my libido within a month of starting propecia that i did have that side effect. What i didnt figure was that mabey it was a gradual thing which i think it was, and i attributied that to getting older. So here i am lean as crap and bigger then i have ever been...not thinking twice about it (and really having no clue what propecia did) i started back on propecia mid feb...well by mid march my sex drive COMPLETELY vanashed, strength fell off big time, bf started rising and digestive probs came back and i hadnt really changed anything. Thats when i went to the doc and started hrt for low test in mid may.

Once again this is just my story and my theory on what happened, i belive that comming off propecia raised my dht level, which caused my estro levels to drop, which caused more test to be naturally released. My guess is that before i came off the propecia my test levels were in the low range (300 - 350) and that they returned to normal or slightly above normal (600-800) and that this along with the more androgenic dht now in my system i started having gains and leaning up...then when i went back on the propecia all the excess test began being converted to estro which shut my test down and killed my libido.

So i want OFF propecia but dont want to lose my hair and am going to try this:

2% nizoral
5% topical spiro
5% topical xanadrox (5% alzeic acid and 5% minoxidil)

the goal being localized type I and type II dht inhibition with NO systematic dht inhibiting.

BTW, sorry for such a long post

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## maxx

> _Originally posted by dtdionne_ 
> *Great thread, check out minoxidil.com, its Dr. Lee's site and he has some new topical products as well that i am about to start trying. I FIRMLY believe that a topical type 1 and type 2 dht inhibitor is the way to go....for bb....I have been fighting mpb, quite successfully since i was 24, im now 32 and most would say "NO WAY, really?" My dad is bald, both my grandfathers are bald and my younger brother is bald and i was really thinning (frontal) at 24. I started on rogaine and my girfriend at the time couldnt believe the results, so many new hairs were coming in up front that i had to comb what little hair i had left forward cause they were pushing my hair down. I then started on propecia when i was 28 and to date i havent lost anything on my crown. I am coming off of the propecia, and that scares the crap out of me but i really think its messing me up, especially the last 8 mon to a year. Mar of this year my sex drive vanashed and it took about a month for the doc to figure it out...he thought it was stress....but it was really low test (200) and thats when my dance with anabolics began. He put me on hrt 1cc cyp a week and when he started this i really had no idea what it was, i just figured it was like an antibiotic, well about 5 weeks, 20 lbs and considerable hairloss later i knew differently and started researching it. i told him that i didnt want to lose my hair over this so he stopped it and i lost most of my gains but the shedding stopped.
> I belive that i read that propecia effectively reduces 60% of type I dht in the scalp and no type II, plus i belive that propecia initially raises test levels due to less being converted to dht, but this also means that more test can be converted to estro which ends up shutting natural test down or could shut natural test down. I personally want dht in my system for many reasons, i just dont want it in my scalp. Here's what led me to this:
> 
> Dec 2001, i ran out of my propecia which i normally just go refill as I had done so for the last 2 years. Well i was really busy and just didnt fill it till the middle of Feb. So, after about 1 week of being off propecia my prostate began to ache and started to hurt after 10 days then got all better after about 18 days which was about the middle of dec. In about the middle of jan my strength was increasing, i was getting bigger and i was leaning up, i was at about 9-10% end of jan and got down two 4-5% by the middle of march. I developed slight acne on the backs of my arms and was being approached every day at the gym about steroids or cutters and no one believed me saying no one gets bigger while leaning up without steroids. A guy offered me $1000 if i came up clean on a blood test and i said "lets go right now" cause not only was i not on anything, i didnt even know anthing about that stuff. As well durring the "off propecia" time digestive problems cleared up and my sex drive was better then it had been since i could remember...strange thing on the sex drive, before starting propecia i read that a side effect was decreased libido which i WELCOMED with open arms cause, a strong libid + no girlfriend = a gift that keeps on giving, if you know what i mean and i guess that since i didnt have a marked, noticable decrease in my libido within a month of starting propecia that i did have that side effect. What i didnt figure was that mabey it was a gradual thing which i think it was, and i attributied that to getting older. So here i am lean as crap and bigger then i have ever been...not thinking twice about it (and really having no clue what propecia did) i started back on propecia mid feb...well by mid march my sex drive COMPLETELY vanashed, strength fell off big time, bf started rising and digestive probs came back and i hadnt really changed anything. Thats when i went to the doc and started hrt for low test in mid may.
> 
> Once again this is just my story and my theory on what happened, i belive that comming off propecia raised my dht level, which caused my estro levels to drop, which caused more test to be naturally released. My guess is that before i came off the propecia my test levels were in the low range (300 - 350) and that they returned to normal or slightly above normal (600-800) and that this along with the more androgenic dht now in my system i started having gains and leaning up...then when i went back on the propecia all the excess test began being converted to estro which shut my test down and killed my libido.
> 
> So i want OFF propecia but dont want to lose my hair and am going to try this:
> ...



please tell us how it went with the treatment?

how are the results?

thanx

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## thepath

> _Originally posted by The Iron Game_ 
> *On precaution if predisposed it is not wise to mix nandrolone with testosterone.*


Dont understand why not... if you are inhibiting the aromatisation to DHT and DHN doesnt cause hair loss, then how is stacking testosterone with nandrolone going to increase the likelyhood of hair loss (compared to either compound alone)?

As a side note, can the loss of the natural anabolic qualities of testosterone that occurs when DHT is inhibited be quantified? How much should the dosage of test be increased? Twice as much, 25% as much?

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## TommyBoy555

another good site for hair products and good prices:

www.wholesalehairproducts.com

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## Pinch

bump!

can you buy nizoral, and other topicals at walmart or such places?

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## maxx

u can buy nizoral but 1% not 2%. over the counter.

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## chinups

Tommy boy- I am going to order the spiro, I am taking winnies so I think it will work good. I also have nixzoral. Is the the 5% best or should I go with the 2%

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## TommyBoy555

chinups

this will be my first time using spiro so I cannot tell you from personal experience....maybe some of the other bros can...

but I've read some posts on other boards where people suggested spiro 5% cream over the 2% solution..

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## TommyBoy555

I received my products from wholesalehairproducts.com on Friday. Everything is legit.

T

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## viperbluelx

Is it ok to use Nizoral every day, or should I use Head&Shoulders daily and Nizoral 2-3 days a week?

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## chinups

I have seen people say they use it 3x a day. But the dose on the bottle says 2 x a week. It seems the norm is to use it eod and thats what I have been doing.

Chins

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## Jamec123

>I have to argue the MPB factor about hairloss for sure I just think it is >down to individual, I have looked through both sides of my family asked >my parents and my granparents and there is nothing no mpb in my >family not even one person.

I would have to agree here. The "experts" will tell you that you will generally not have a hair loss problem with steroids unless you have a genetic predisposition. As the chemical interactions in the body could certainly widely vary, I believe that there could be cases where you could; eg. just because someone takes a DHT-derived steroid like Anadrol and loses hair does not mean that they have a genetic disposition to convert testosterone to DHT.

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## The Animal

....if deca and test are stacked together does the deca cancel out the test's ability to accelerate hairloss?

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