# STEROIDS FORUM > HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY- Low T, Anti-Aging >  My TRT Script!

## bass

okay, i believe the price if good, but here is whats included, he said no need to waste money on hCG at this point, if sides occur then we can include hCG later. the most expensive item was the Oxandrolone but its a 30 week supply! other items are more than 10 week supply, but the testosterone is a 10 week supply at 200mg per week. what do you guys think about the script?

Qty Product Description 
1 Testosterone Cypionate 200 mg/mL compounded 10ml injection 
1 Nandrolone Deconate 200 mg/mL compounded 10ml vial 
2 Oxandrolone 50mg cmpd troche (30 per tray) 
35 Anastrazole 1mg tablet 
10 Syringe 3cc 23G 1.5 
10 Needle 20G 1 
1 Methylcobolamin 1000mcg/ml 30ml 
30 Syringe 3cc 27G 1

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## zaggahamma

should get your levels up there  :Smilie: 

lol- hcg no necissito but oxandralone we must have...good stuff!

congrats largemouth!

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## Termin8r27

Looks fun!

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## rebel70

All that from a clinic or a endo?

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## bass

from a clinic! i didn't even have to see an endo, they basically looked at my blood work and physical report from my doc and came up with a script. this clinic was the most professional and didn't charge me anything yet! the only thing i paid them for is more blood work they needed, only $35 and they used my current blood work i did on m y own! they don't markup lab work and supplies like syringes, needle, etc...

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## Vettester

Yea, it's kind of funny as jpk stated about the HCG , but they loaded you up with the Anavar and Deca . If your condition is secondary, then you'll love the HCG. At least they will get it to you if you feel you need it. Also, I hope they don't have you taking too much of the Anastrozole tabs. IMO, it should be kept to 2mg/wk or less based on your E2 score and desired level.

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## rebel70

I am heading to get bloodwork this week.Maybe my clinic will be as helpful.

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## flatscat

Holy crap and I thought my doc was liberal - congrats. Just a thought, but you might want to do the first ten weeks with the test and AI if needed. Let your body settle into the test, then add in the deca , then anavar and so on. You are going to be stocked up and stacked bro, now go make good use of it!!!

Flats

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## frawnz

> okay, i believe the price if good, but here is whats included, he said no need to waste money on hCG at this point, if sides occur then we can include hCG later. the most expensive item was the Oxandrolone but its a 30 week supply! other items are more than 10 week supply, but the testosterone is a 10 week supply at 200mg per week. what do you guys think about the script?
> 
> Qty Product Description 
> 1 Testosterone Cypionate 200 mg/mL compounded 10ml injection 
> 1 Nandrolone Deconate 200 mg/mL compounded 10ml vial 
> 2 Oxandrolone 50mg cmpd troche (30 per tray) 
> 35 Anastrazole 1mg tablet 
> 10 Syringe 3cc 23G 1.5 
> 10 Needle 20G 1 
> ...


Nice! Looks pretty good to me, although like most people said, you will probably want the HCG in pretty short order, but HCG is pretty cheap and can be ordered up quickly.

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## warchild

gotta love it!

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## Triple Stack

Me likey! They have you on a stack LOL. The best is the Anavar ...

Is that to be taken all together? 200mg/wk test, 200mg/wk deca plus 50mg/daily Anavar? WOW

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## bass

thanks for the inputs guys. yea i did ask him about hCG and he said save your money for now, he also said that most men don't have the sides and hCG is not needed! i think I'll follow their instruction and see how it goes and adjust from there!

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## bass

> Me likey! They have you on a stack LOL. The best is the Anavar ...
> 
> Is that to be taken all together? 200mg/wk test, 200mg/wk deca plus 50mg/daily Anavar? WOW


yup thats what he said! I'll be placing the order today...

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## JohnnyVegas

Wow, that is incredible. Local clinic? Of not, PM me in case my new doc wants me to switch to that under the skin pellet.

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## The Toad

Wow, they really hooked you up.

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## zaggahamma

> Wow, they really hooked you up.


its a CLINIC....they pretty much give u what you want

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## The Toad

> its a CLINIC....they pretty much give u what you want


I guess I went the wrong direction. I have been trying to figure out how to approach my Doctor about a cycle of Deca , I am thinking it may help my knees and shoulders.

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## bass

> I guess I went the wrong direction. I have been trying to figure out how to approach my Doctor about a cycle of Deca, I am thinking it may help my knees and shoulders.


thats what my coordinator said, when he said Deca , i was like WTF! because i didn't expect it! but of course i stayed quite, then he explained why, to give me joint relief!

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## zaggahamma

> I guess I went the wrong direction. I have been trying to figure out how to approach my Doctor about a cycle of Deca, I am thinking it may help my knees and shoulders.


theres no way to approach a regular doctor for deca

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## rebel70

I'm doing my paper work right now for a clinic out of florida.I wonder if they would suggest the same.I have bad joints,arthritis and both meniscus removed.I should find out next week.

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## The Toad

> theres no way to approach a regular doctor for deca


Thats what I figured

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## bass

ordered! it should be here tomorrow! i don't think i can go to sleep tonight!

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## JohnnyVegas

Wahoooo! Does it come from FL, or do you get a scrip and fill it locally?

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## bass

i believe from Florida!

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## Triple Stack

> ordered! it should be here tomorrow! i don't think i can go to sleep tonight!


LOL it's like the night before Christmas! Can't wait to see what Santa brought you...

Are you going to boot the same day you get it? I remember you saying you haven't done that before. That first jab is an adrenaline pumper!

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## bigdug

Bass, You da man! I can't believe it. Sounds like you're gonna get some great results. I was thinking of going the TRT route between cycles this time. PCT is always such a bummer. I'll be 48 in February and think it will do me good. How could you be so fortunate to have gotten deca ??? what a score! and Anavar !?!?! You should have suggested some anadrol 50 while you were on your winning streak lol. Good for you man. Triplestack is right, there's nothing like geezin' test...it is a rush. Keep us posted.

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## zaggahamma

> Bass, You da man! I can't believe it. Sounds like you're gonna get some great results. I was thinking of going the TRT route between cycles this time. PCT is always such a bummer. I'll be 48 in February and think it will do me good. How could you be so fortunate to have gotten deca ??? what a score! and Anavar !?!?! You should have suggested some *anadrol 50* while you were on your winning streak lol. Good for you man. Triplestack is right, there's nothing like geezin' test...it is a rush. Keep us posted.


lol...i think that MAY be about the only thing u cant get from a clinic but not sure...cant remember...i got deca and anavar when i was with a clinic

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## bass

> LOL it's like the night before Christmas! Can't wait to see what Santa brought you...
> 
> Are you going to boot the same day you get it? I remember you saying you haven't done that before. That first jab is an adrenaline pumper!


that's right, my first time, but unfortunately due to New Years Eve i will get it on Monday in stead! its okay few more days won't kill me! i been practicing where to inject and still nervous as to where and how, sticking my self is not the problem, its doing it right what i am worried about. i wish there was a place i can go to where they can show/teach me how to do it! but i have to cross that bridge when the time comes. i will definitely keep you guys posted...

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## emmett

Great thread. I'm new to this forum as well as some others and find this the most informative of all. Bass good luck man, I'm currently searching for a FLA clinic as well. Im in the NorthEast and VERY frustrated. Please keep posting your scripts and how things are going for you.

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## bass

no problem Emmett! the shipment got screwed up due to the Holidays, still don't have it! but will let you guys know when it arrives!

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## lifeforce0019

> no problem Emmett! the shipment got screwed up due to the Holidays, still don't have it! but will let you guys know when it arrives!


Damn, bummer Bass. I hope it arrives in the next day or two! Good luck with your first injections. Be sure to aspirate every time. I almost freaked out the first time blood caming rushing in while aspirating during a quad injection. I am back to the glutes for the time being - - -  :Smilie:

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## bass

thanks for the tip! i asked my coordinator about aspirating and he said don't waist your time, just inject! he said he never aspirate ! of course being new to this stuff i will follow the protocol to the T...

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## Triple Stack

If you're only doing like a 1ml shot then the your shoulder would be easy to pin with a 1" needle...my doc even gave me 5/8" ones for the delts. 
That way you don't have to use a 1 1/2" harpoon in your butt. That can be intimidating for your first injection, hell I still don't like butt shots!

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## cerealkiller326

> thanks for the tip! i asked my coordinator about aspirating and he said don't waist your time, just inject! he said he never aspirate! of course being new to this stuff i will follow the protocol to the T...


LOL thats awesome the dude said don't waste your time...I wouldn't take that advise but aspirate buddy. Good Luck with the pin Bass.

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## bass

got my stuff, i am nervous! Wish me luck!!!

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## zaggahamma

> got my stuff, i am nervous! Wish me luck!!!


not gonna need it....b lookin for new posts of the gains

congrats biggen

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## Triple Stack

:7up:

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## APIs

Wow. OP must be psyched. Looks like you hooked up with a good clinic! Can't believe they would stack you like that! Dont think my TRT doc does anything like that...

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## JohnnyVegas

> got my stuff, i am nervous! Wish me luck!!!


Good luck! 

I jabbed mine in quick and there was no pain. So easy, don't psych yourself out.

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## bass

i did it! my first injection, it wasn't bad at all, it took me 30 seconds looking at the damn needle aiming at my ass then wam...no problem. little sore though!

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## zaggahamma

> i did it! my first injection, it wasn't bad at all, it took me 30 seconds looking at the damn needle aiming at my ass then wam...no problem. little sore though!


you doin both test and deca in same pin??? take your anavar yet??

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## emmett

Good Luck Bass. Keep us posted.

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## bass

yea same pin! 1cc test and 1/2cc deca . and yes i took the anavar as well, am i supposed to feel something immediate? i also injected 1cc B12...




> you doin both test and deca in same pin??? take your anavar yet??


Thanks Emmett!

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## JohnnyVegas

> i did it! my first injection, it wasn't bad at all, it took me 30 seconds looking at the damn needle aiming at my ass then wam...no problem. little sore though!


Same thing happened to me. I stared at it for a while and started sweating...then jammed it in expecting to scream and pass out from the pain, only to find out that it was the most anticlimactic thing I have ever done. I have never had soreness, but you are injecting two compounds and more volume than me.

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## flatscat

Guess you didn't take my advise Bass. Please keep us posted as to what you are feeling and how things are progressing. I know you are going to see some amazing results. And yes, I am jealous.

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## emmett

Excuse my ignorance, but will this script just bring your levels back to norm or will you actually post gains (lean muscle, fat loss)? Any info from anyone will help me as I decide whether or not to follow through with a clinic. I had my blood test a couple days ago and am waiting to get the results and talk with the clinic. Maybe I should start a thread with my questions.

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## bass

Two reasons, one I dont want to screw with their script so they can keep working with me, secondly I wanted deca to help with my joint pain!




> Guess you didn't take my advise Bass. Please keep us posted as to what you are feeling and how things are progressing. I know you are going to see some amazing results. And yes, I am jealous.

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## lifeforce0019

Congrats Bass! I am looking forward to follow your progress!  :Smilie:

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## zaggahamma

> Excuse my ignorance, but will this script just bring your levels back to norm or will you actually post gains (lean muscle, fat loss)? Any info from anyone will help me as I decide whether or not to follow through with a clinic. I had my blood test a couple days ago and am waiting to get the results and talk with the clinic. Maybe I should start a thread with my questions.


you can post gains on normal/low doses of test let alone higher levels including stacking them with several other compounds...your post was not out of line/hijacking...lot to learn with just reading posts in this forum if you have questions relating to hrt

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## zaggahamma

> yea same pin! 1cc test and 1/2cc deca . and yes i took the anavar as well, am i supposed to feel something immediate? i also injected 1cc B12...
> 
> 
> Thanks Emmett!


nope just happy

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## frawnz

Congrats Bass. Keep us posted on your results!

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## bass

my second day since my first injection, just took my second dose of anavar , nothing to report at this point. but wanted to mention that i am not doing any lifting, i like to have my aching body recover a little then hit the gym hard. i have to say though, my body always felt sore as if it never recovers from workouts, last night i felt less pain, i am hoping for all the pain to disappear within 2 to 3 weeks, then hit the gym. right now just watching what i eat and cardio.

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## Triple Stack

The Deca will take about a month to kick in but after that your joint pains will disappear...Deca is wonderful for joint lubrication. You'll feel young again at the gym. In my opinion you won't really feel much from the Anavar for a couple weeks, but after a month when all the other compounds kick in you'll feel "strong like bull"!

I just got back today from the urologist's office for a follow-up. He gave me an "injection tutorial" (I played dumb) and then he gave me my shot of test cyp....with an 18 guage needle! He was ready to do it in my shoulder & I said "no way not with that harpoon!" haha so I got the boot in the butt. The doc said he ran out of smaller guage needles and agreed it was a little big...but it didn't hurt though, I was surprised. Maybe he wanted to test my resolve LOL

Welcome to the wonderful world of TRT!

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## JohnnyVegas

I pull with an 18g and wouldn't want it stuck in me anywhere.  :Smilie:

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## zaggahamma

18 fvck that

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## bass

speaking of needles, i injected last Tuesday testosterone /deca and Vitamin b12 in the same general area, i am still sore not terribly sore but its more noticeable today. is this normal to take this long?

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## Triple Stack

Yes, I think so. For me the day of the shot everything is fine. Then the next day it may get sore & the 2nd day peaks. But Test E & Deca are smooth so I don't usually get sore (anymore). I think you're sore because it's "virgin muscle" you injected into for the first time. Just keep note of redness, swelling & lumps because that can indicate infection. But I think you are fine.

PS - I never injected B12 so maybe that is causing some soreness?

Note: Short estered compounds like Test Propionate & Tren Acetate can hurt like a mofo. I took both those over the summer and could barely walk for 2-3 days after injection. What really sucked is you have to pin that stuff at least every other day! Deca and Test Enanthate /Cypionate are known to be relatively smooth.

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## frawnz

Yes. It's basically a deep internal bruise. Think of how a normal bruise on your body would be. Are you doing the b12 sub-q or IM? Unless you're mixing it with your T, I'd do it sub-q with an insulin needle in your belly.

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## frawnz

Also, I find that injecting very slowly and then massaging the area afterwards for a few minutes really helps prevent any soreness. I also put the needle in and pull the needle out VERY slowly, and 95% of the time I don't even get a single drop of blood at the injection spot.

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## bigdug

Right on bass! Sometimes soreness comes from moving the needle around while you push the plunger. Happens to me somtimes. Also your body might not be used to the esters/alcohol in the test. After a couple of times it'll be like brushing your teeth and no soreness. I would be aspirating though, geezing even a little test in a blood vessel is somewhat uncomfortable. Keep us posted on your gains bass. Good luck.

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## bass

thanks for the info guys, this morning its even more sore but only when i put pressure on the muscle. test/deca i used 1.5" needle and for B12 1" needle and both the same area Q2 upper outer quadrant, but not the same spot! and according to the instruction both are to me IM injections. i asked my coordinator and he said yes its normal to get some soreness, but i didn't expect it to get more noticeable day after day. there is no redness or swelling just tender when i put pressure on it.

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## APIs

> Also, I find that injecting very slowly and then massaging the area afterwards for a few minutes really helps prevent any soreness. I also put the needle in and pull the needle out VERY slowly, and 95% of the time I don't even get a single drop of blood at the injection spot.


This is exactly what I do also. Most of the time, very little blood comes out.

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## APIs

> thanks for the info guys, this morning its even more sore but only when i put pressure on the muscle. test/deca i used 1.5" needle and for B12 1" needle and both the same area Q2 upper outer quadrant, but not the same spot! and according to the instruction both are to me IM injections. i asked my coordinator and he said yes its normal to get some soreness, but i didn't expect it to get more noticeable day after day. there is no redness or swelling just tender when i put pressure on it.


Stick with the delts. I get soreness using any other spot. The delts are big enough to where you can vary the injection site enough to avoid over scarring.

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## Black

I fail to see the excitement. If you truly suffer from hypogonadism/low testosterone , then this "clinic" is not helping you. They are just making money off you.

Were there any tests done to determine if you are primary or secondary?

Starting Test Cyp, Deca and Anavar as your initial TRT is ridiculous. You just paid for an expensive cycle.

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## zaggahamma

> I fail to see the excitement. If you truly suffer from hypogonadism/low testosterone , then this "clinic" is not helping you. They are just making money off you.
> 
> Were there any tests done to determine if you are primary or secondary?
> 
> Starting Test Cyp, Deca and Anavar as your initial TRT is ridiculous. You just paid for an expensive cycle.


he went thru all the tests with his regular physicians and was dead ended as a lot of patients find....

expensive is relative imho...how much do/should we pay for optimum health..

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## bass

you are correct when you say the clinic is making money off of me, i expected that anyway. but like jpkman said, my doc and insurance didn't want to do anything about it so i went to a next best thing, keep it safe and legal! most likely I’ll run this as a cycle and do PCT because its very expensive to continue for the rest of my life. may be do it once a year!




> I fail to see the excitement. If you truly suffer from hypogonadism/low testosterone , then this "clinic" is not helping you. They are just making money off you.
> 
> Were there any tests done to determine if you are primary or secondary?
> 
> Starting Test Cyp, Deca and Anavar as your initial TRT is ridiculous. You just paid for an expensive cycle.

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## Black

> he went thru all the tests with his regular physicians and was dead ended as a lot of patients find....
> 
> expensive is relative imho...how much do/should we pay for optimum health..


There is no price for true TRT. However, he stated he's going to use it as a cycle and run PCT. Thus, making it an expensive cycle. And you can put a price on that.

Adding compounds later after you find your sweet spot is understandable. But to initally start with three compounds when consistent blood levels should be established first? Come on jpkman, you've been around here long enough to know that's ridiclous. 




> you are correct when you say the clinic is making money off of me, i expected that anyway. but like jpkman said, my doc and insurance didn't want to do anything about it so i went to a next best thing, keep it safe and legal! most likely I’ll run this as a cycle and do PCT because its very expensive to continue for the rest of my life. may be do it once a year!


So you have low test as determined by your doctor/physician and you are going to run this TRT script once a year? So the rest of the year you are going to have low test? PCT will do nothing if you are already shutdown. Just because it comes from a "clinic" doesn't mean it is actual testosterone replacement therapy. People of all types wander this forum. This goes against TRUE trt and just confuses people trying to learn.

To each their own, I don't care what you do. However, this should be in the Anabolic forum, not the HRT forum.

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## zaggahamma

> There is no price for true TRT. However, he stated he's going to use it as a cycle and run PCT. Thus, making it an expensive cycle. And you can put a price on that.
> 
> Adding compounds later after you find your sweet spot is understandable. But to initally start with three compounds when consistent blood levels should be established first? Come on jpkman, you've been around here long enough to know that's ridiclous. 
> 
> 
> 
> So you have low test as determined by your doctor/physician and you are going to run this TRT script once a year? So the rest of the year you are going to have low test? PCT will do nothing if you are already shutdown. Just because it comes from a "clinic" doesn't mean it is actual testosterone replacement therapy. People of all types wander this forum. This goes against TRUE trt and just confuses people trying to learn.
> 
> To each their own, I don't care what you do. However, this should be in the Anabolic forum, not the HRT forum.


yes...i DO think its best to find/know your trt sweetspot and doing so in the beginning would be best but i dont see this as a full cycle...i see it as a stacked anti aging hrt....reminds me of one of our previous posters that was running an even stronger protocol...i would call that more of a cycle...cant remember his name...zona dave? no, maybe someone before that...dayam youre right i have been on this board a long time...lol...
so agree and disagree...
i think the post belongs here and will provide a lot to learn from

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## Triple Stack

Bass, I've followed some of your other posts and see that you are genuinely supressed. Maybe that SARMS cycle did it, IDK but you're going to feel like shit even after PCT, that's what was happening with me. My body threw in the towel from the abuse...you should talk to the clinic & tell them that after this "cycle" you wish to continue your therapy at a conventional dose of like only 200mg a week test cyp. See what they say since it's a free market, and there are other clinics like mine that will accommodate you. It will be much easier on the wallet too.

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## bass

> Bass, I've followed some of your other posts and see that you are genuinely supressed. Maybe that SARMS cycle did it, IDK but you're going to feel like shit even after PCT, that's what was happening with me. My body threw in the towel from the abuse...you should talk to the clinic & tell them that after this "cycle" you wish to continue your therapy at a conventional dose of like only 200mg a week test cyp. See what they say since it's a free market, and there are other clinics like mine that will accommodate you. It will be much easier on the wallet too.


thanks TS! i will only stop TRT if i can't afford it! i believe i stated this in my other thread "Coming off TRT", i just want to know my options ahead of time in case i have to make that decision! i went with this clinic because they handled my case more professionally than the rest i've communicated with, so this way i can learn and hopefully at one point i'll do this on my own and with the help of this forum!

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## JohnnyVegas

Why do PCT at the end when you can just go back to a typical TRT dosage? Is that what is normally done?

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## bass

the bottom line is money! no money no TRT! so living with little test is better than living with no test! also depends on blood results, if my PSA shows any increase in levels i will definitely stop and go see my doc. but of all is good and money is there then forward we go!

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## JohnnyVegas

Onward and upward, my friend. Are you going to do PCT, or just drop down to 200mg/week to stabilize?

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## bass

i am on 200mg ew now, PCT is only for plan ahead purposes. i am hoping to stay on TRT for as longs as i possibly can. again all that is dependent on money and blood work results. i am planing to do blood work 6 weeks into TRT to see where everything is, like total test, free test, PSA, Kidney and Liver Function, Estrogen Level and Cholesterol levels. i will post the results here, in fact i intend to post my whole experience here to help others learn more and better plan their TRT.

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## bass

BTW, the soreness form the shot is fading away! Also like to mention i wasn't planing to do any lifting until all muscle soreness is gone, but being addicted to lifting i couldn't hold back, so i did biceps and back, i did noticed less pain during workout, hopefully this will improve when the deca kicks in in few weeks!

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## zaggahamma

> i am on 200mg ew now,* PCT is only for plan ahead purposes.* i am hoping to stay on TRT for as longs as i possibly can. again all that is dependent on money and blood work results. i am planing to do blood work 6 weeks into TRT to see where everything is, like total test, free test, PSA, Kidney and Liver Function, Estrogen Level and Cholesterol levels. i will post the results here, in fact i intend to post my whole experience here to help others learn more and better plan their TRT.


please explain

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## Triple Stack

I think he means, "Plan B: I ran out of money or clinic won't prescribe anymore, so I got to try & kick start my balls into making some test - emergency contingency plan"!

My thoughts are after this "cycle", dry out for a month. Then get bloodwork done when you are totally shut down and go back to your doc when the report shows your test levels are like 50. They'll probably put you on something then!

The doc didn't prescribe it before because you were low normal at 299. They seem to only care about the number and are suspicious and scared of steroid use .

But tell them you have a headache and they'll write you a script for some oxycontins. Or tell them your 7 yr old child is a little hyper and they'll give him amphetamines (adderall) no questions asked. Go figure.

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## JohnnyVegas

Hopefully cost doesn't become an issue. I am one Test Cyp and HCG and the price isn't bad. It is nothing like what you got a scrip for. Plus, I can't imagine you can stay on that dosage for more than a "blast", right?

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## bass

Right on Triple Stack! my doc said he has no problem prescribing testosterone but in a gel form, i said no i want injections, he replied "i will never prescribe injections for you" so thats what is scaring me, if i let my self completely shut down then i may not be able to get back to my base line, probably won't even with PCT! then I'll have no choice but to nag him until he gives in!

Johnny, i don't quite get your question! regarding the "blast" you are right, the initial script is ridiculously high, but for continued therapy i don't think they'll keep on on var and deca , probably more like you with test and hCG .

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## zaggahamma

i guess we'll be discussing pct on the hrt forum forever

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## bass

hopefully not! I'll keep my fingers crossed!




> i guess we'll be discussing pct on the hrt forum forever

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## Triple Stack

> Right on Triple Stack! my doc said he has no problem prescribing testosterone but in a gel form, i said no i want injections, he replied "i will never prescribe injections for you" so thats what is scaring me, if i let my self completely shut down then i may not be able to get back to my base line, probably won't even with PCT! then I'll have no choice but to nag him until he gives in!.


My primary physician doesn't do injections either. I told him flat out that the androgel may contaminate my wife & little kids. He suggested I see a urologist which I did. I explained the situation and he prescribed me the cypionate . If don't need referrals go to a urologist or endocrinologist. As many as you can until you get one that will do the right thing.

PS - you are already getting shut down using the exogenous test. If you can't get them to prescribe it, just go back to the clinic supplied test...

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## zaggahamma

> My primary physician doesn't do injections either. I told him flat out that the androgel may contaminate my wife & little kids. He suggested I see a urologist which I did. I explained the situation and he prescribed me the cypionate . If don't need referrals go to a urologist or endocrinologist. As many as you can until you get one that will do the right thing.
> 
> *PS - you are already getting shut down using the exogenous test.* If you can't get them to prescribe it, just go back to the clinic supplied test...


no we're gettin it....hence NO PCT

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## Triple Stack

Bass's natty test levels were 299 before TRT...during TRT his natty levels will drop off the cliff. If he stops taking the exogenous test his natty test levels will be waaay in the toilet.

Example: My original bloodwok had me at 95. I went on Androlgel, then Striant for 1 1/2 months. I said I wanted shots, he sent me to the urologist who said, "come off the Striant and get another blood test to see where you are at". Sure! and I did, and my levels were now an amazing 49. So now I'm on test cyp. Why the doc recommended doing that I do not know why, but I knew my body would shut down natural production since it was getting test introduced from elsewhere....

I know what you're saying about no PCT, and yes we're getting it...but from the pharmacy, not our gonads LOL!

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## bass

something new i am feeling, not sure if they are sides! its like someone is sticking needle in you, it also feels like a painful pimple but no pimple! it happen few times a day but not all the time. the fist one was on my right lat on my back, and now on my front left of the chest toward the center. has any of these sides been reported?

----------


## zaggahamma

cant remember feeling/hearing anything like that

----------


## JohnnyVegas

I have not had any sides other than oily skin and increased libido.

How long does the pain last? I get focused pain like that sometimes, but started years before I started TRT. Almost like burning, small muscle cramps. They can last for hours, but massaging them really helps. I am pretty sure mine are from my back injury.

----------


## bass

the pain you are describing is what got me to start TRT, but the pain i get is a quick shot, as if someone pokes you with a pin like a quick in and out motion. this happens once every 4-6 hours! i always had them but not as painful. the ones i am familiar with are quick pinch that happen in different spot simultaneously, doc said they are normal, but these new one are sharp pain, they are not a bather just more curious.




> I have not had any sides other than oily skin and increased libido.
> 
> How long does the pain last? I get focused pain like that sometimes, but started years before I started TRT. Almost like burning, small muscle cramps. They can last for hours, but massaging them really helps. I am pretty sure mine are from my back injury.

----------


## bass

just an update!

I've noticed I've been sleeping longer, before TRT i used to wakeup every 10-15 minutes due to shoulder and back pain, now i sleep hours at a time and wakeup 3-4 times a night! also noticed I've been having lots dreams, i guess because i am sleeping longer, just like the old days! its been 6 days and so far it seems to be alleviating some pain!

----------


## Termin8r27

Nice!

I hate ass shots too btw. They are hard to get to on your own and they always seem to burn and bleed a little on me (surface veins). I mainly stick to delts and quads now and will do the butt every now and then to change it up.

----------


## bass

you're right its hard to get to, but its painless!

another thing i want to mention, I've gain weight! the body fat monitor still reading the same % as before but my weight went up by 3-4 pounds! after i did my chest and triceps my wife and kids looked at me shocked how big my arms looked! could i have gain muscle in this short time!

PS. i was planing not to do any lifting for about 3-4 weeks into my TRT, but just couldn't help it, so far i did all my normal workouts last week!

----------


## Termin8r27

How long has it been since you started...like a week?

Every body is different, and it depends on how much mg you're taking and eating, etc, etc, but you can definitely start gaining a pound or two a week or more right when you start. Since your hormones are increasing, you should also get more muscle glycogen and protein and general bloodflow/water getting into your muscles, making you fuller.

Nice work!

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## bass

yea i started last Tuesday! i can't wait for my next shot tomorrow! it also could be fluid retention from deca !

----------


## Triple Stack

It's probably the Anavar more so than anything else, that start working immediately since it's metabolized daily. And 50mgs/day is a decent dosage.

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## zaggahamma

> It's probably the Anavar more so than anything else, that start working immediately since it's metabolized daily. And 50mgs/day is a decent dosage.


dayam thats just what flatscat needs to hear

----------


## bass

took my second injection, went much easier but forgot to aspirate ! no dizziness though i guess i didn't hit a vein! i went much slower injecting the test/deca and so far no soreness! i also massaged it a little.

i was instructed to draw the deca and mix it with test in the same syringe, as i was pushing the air into the deca vial some test went in, will this effect the deca in the vial?

----------


## JohnnyVegas

I noticed you said you were having less pain. I have noticed (been on for five weeks) that I have a lot fewer little aches and pains. And I stopped making noise every time I got up off the couch, or out of bed. I used to make an involuntary exertion noise whenever I did anything. It made me feel old.

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## bass

yup, you just describe me! but now i feel lighter on my feet and the pain is more localized, for example, i had triceps pain, but my whole back and shoulders were like inflamed, but now i can point with my fingers where the pain is.

----------


## emmett

Good luck Bass, I'm following your thread with much interest. I got my blood test down and was told my script as well. Its all listed on the thread I started (don't want to hyjack your thread).I told them I'd call them back in a few days once I mulled it over.

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## bass

great, I'll go and check your thread now! good luck to you too!

----------


## JohnnyVegas

> Johnny, i don't quite get your question! regarding the "blast" you are right, the initial script is ridiculously high, but for continued therapy i don't think they'll keep on on var and deca, probably more like you with test and hCG.


Sorry my question was confusing, but you completely answered it. After this big start you should be dropping down to a much more affordable program.

----------


## bass

i agree!

today i am feeling a little sore from yesterday's injection! so far here are the sides i've been noticing!

Negative Sides,
1. very light tremors, my hands are a little shaky!
2. urinating more often, no signs of prostate problems, just going to the bathroom once every hour. i still drink at least 2 liters of water a day, plus coffee, tea and juices.
3. i wakeup at around 2:30-3:00 am and drenched with sweat! the room temperature is about 65 f.
4. feeling more hungry.
5. lower back pain!
6. weight gain, i believe i've gained fat! i've been lifting only so far since i started, haven't done cardio, but my diet is still clean.

Positive Sides,
1. feeling stronger
2. before TRT my body felt broken, inflamed, now pain is only localized, but only when i lift.
3. slightly increased libido
4. increased energy, more motivated to workout
5. sleep better and longer, very little shoulder pain while sleeping.
6. improved concentration and more focused.
7. gained some muscle, and look a little leaner!

----------


## zaggahamma

> i agree!
> 
> today i am feeling a little sore from yesterday's injection! so far here are the sides i've been noticing!
> 
> Negative Sides,
> 1. very light tremors, my hands are a little shaky!
> 2. urinating more often, no signs of prostate problems, just going to the bathroom once every hour. i still drink at least 2 liters of water a day, plus coffee, tea and juices.
> 3. i wakeup at around 2:30-3:00 am and drenched with sweat! the room temperature is about 65 f.
> 4. feeling more hungry.
> ...


thanks for the details bass...good thread...once u get rolling in the gym give us the weight increases...did the needle pains go away?

----------


## Triple Stack

So are you getting more fat (negative sides #6) or more lean (positive sides #7)! LOL 

When I cycle I feel fatter since I'm hungrier, so I eat more & more often and my stomach gets a little distended. So I _feel_ full & fat, but I'm really getting leaner...maybe that's the feeling you're getting?

Yeah great thread we're on post #104 already. I wish I could be this interesting....

----------


## bass

yes the pain from the first injection went away, now i am feeling the new injection from yesterday!




> thanks for the details bass...good thread...once u get rolling in the gym give us the weight increases...did the needle pains go away?

----------


## bass

i hope you're right, my arms look leaner but i feel heavy at the belly area, kind of a bloated feeling! it is confusing!




> So are you getting more fat (negative sides #6) or more lean (positive sides #7)! LOL 
> 
> When I cycle I feel fatter since I'm hungrier, so I eat more & more often and my stomach gets a little distended. So I _feel_ full & fat, but I'm really getting leaner...maybe that's the feeling you're getting?
> 
> Yeah great thread we're on post #104 already. I wish I could be this interesting....

----------


## zaggahamma

> yes the pain from the first injection went away, now i am feeling the new injection from yesterday!


no, i mean those weird needle like sensations on various spots...wasnt that you that mentioned that?

----------


## bass

oh yea, they're gone! thank God!

----------


## bass

okay this is my third day after my second injection, the first day i felt no pain, but yesterday and today its very painful, 10 times more than the first shot, i limp when i walk! my first shot was on the right side and my second was on the left, so i am alternating. when i complained to my coordinator about the soreness from my first shot he suggested that i massage after injection, so i did but its worse! is massaging a good idea? also i took my time injection, it took about a minute to inject 1.5ml. the soreness is only from the test/deca shot and not from the B12.

----------


## JohnnyVegas

That is strange. I have never had even a tiny bit of pain after an injection. The most I have ever injected is 1ml, but I don't think it would make that much difference, especially since you said you took a minute to inject - I inject in just a few seconds. The major difference between your injections and mine are the Deca . Or maybe you body just hates invasion.  :Smilie:

----------


## emmett

Great job Bass. Did you have your BF measured before you started? How about your weight? It might be one of those things when you weigh yourself everyday, you never lose/gain as you wish to. Maybe take a mental step back and just do what you do. Sometimes you need to step back to see whats in your face. Just a suggestion but maybe your wrapped up in the daily changes too much. I myself was/is a person that would look at the scale EVERY day and say "oh, there's a pound gone" then the next day it would be back. I drove myself nuts. I now look once a week and its easier. Keep up the posts! 

Also what did the clinic prescribe Oxandrolone to you for?

----------


## bass

> That is strange. I have never had even a tiny bit of pain after an injection. The most I have ever injected is 1ml, but I don't think it would make that much difference, especially since you said you took a minute to inject - I inject in just a few seconds. The major difference between your injections and mine are the Deca . Or maybe you body just hates invasion.


do you massage the area after injection?

----------


## bass

> Great job Bass. Did you have your BF measured before you started? How about your weight? It might be one of those things when you weigh yourself everyday, you never lose/gain as you wish to. Maybe take a mental step back and just do what you do. Sometimes you need to step back to see whats in your face. Just a suggestion but maybe your wrapped up in the daily changes too much. I myself was/is a person that would look at the scale EVERY day and say "oh, there's a pound gone" then the next day it would be back. I drove myself nuts. I now look once a week and its easier. Keep up the posts! 
> 
> Also what did the clinic prescribe Oxandrolone to you for?


thanks Emmett! yes of course i'll keep reporting. as for the Oxandrolone he said it was to help lean me out!

----------


## Triple Stack

I think its because it's another virgin spot you injected into...don't let it worry you, keep on truckin'!

I've put 3ml in a at time and that can get tough cramming all that juice in there LOL! Also I've used test suspension which is hella painful, and have had blood squirters where it would gush against the wall when pulling the needle out.....all those times it wasn't under prescription and with dubious UGL gear. Yes I am quite jaded, but the point is.....you'll be fine!

----------


## JohnnyVegas

> do you massage the area after injection?


I remember to massage about half the time. 

I had another thought. The pharmacy was out of the 1.5" needles, so they gave me 1" and said the fat on my hip was not enough to make a difference. I should be getting 1.5" needles this time...I will see if I have a problem. Is it possible to go too deep if maybe you are slightly in the wrong spot or something? I am obviously grabbing at straws in case I say something that causes an "ah ha!" moment.

----------


## lifeforce0019

> thanks Emmett! yes of course i'll keep reporting. as for the Oxandrolone he said it was to help lean me out!


Give it about 4 weeks my friend. You are going to feel terrific, like a new young man! What is your weekly dose of anastrazole now?

----------


## bass

thanks TS!

Johnny, whats odd is he gave me 1" for B12 for IM injection, and 1.5" for test/deca , i was wondering if both are IM injections why not both the same size?! but please keep me updated as to how you will react to the 1.5" needle!

LifeForce, thanks for the encouragement, i need it! as for anastrazole, i started one tablet per day for 7 days and now i am on 1/2 tablet every day.

----------


## lifeforce0019

That is a lot of anastrazole my friend!?!? Yikes! Who recommended 0.5 mg per day? I am not an expert but for your test/deca /anavar program that seems excessive especially since you are only 1 or 2 weeks in to your program! Hopefully some of the experts will chime in!

Thanks for pointing out my error jpk!

----------


## zaggahamma

> That is a lot of anastrazole my friend!?!? Yikes! Who recommended bumping it to 0.5 mg per day from 1.0 mg per week? I am not an expert but for your test/deca/anavar program that seems excessive especially since you are only 1 or 2 weeks in to your program! Hopefully some of the experts will chime in!


trying to see where in this thread where the op was taking 1.0mg per week? in the post just above yours he mentioned taking less NOW ...FROM 1.0 PER DAY to .5 per day...

...i do agree its a lot but everyone reacts to test and AI's differently...maybe bass can be specific on how the original dose was decided and now tapering...i looks as if just that...intending on tapering down the whole time maybe thinking that the body will want to aromotize the test to estro more in the beginning....

----------


## bass

it was prescribed by the clinic's doctor i presume! i did complain about going to the bathroom allot and he said its because of the anastrazole, he said just keep drinking lots of water to stay hydrated until it normalizes. i believe the clinic is planning on ordering a blood work before my next script! so we'll see where everything is then!

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## Honkey_Kong

> it was prescribed by the clinic's doctor i presume! i did complain about going to the bathroom allot and he said its because of the anastrazole, he said just keep drinking lots of water to stay hydrated until it normalizes. i believe the clinic is planning on ordering a blood work before my next script! so we'll see where everything is then!


The clinic you go to allows you to do the injections yourself? The place I go to, requires me to go in every week for an injection.

----------


## bass

> The clinic you go to allows you to do the injections yourself? The place I go to, requires me to go in every week for an injection.


as far as i know most do let you inject yourself!

----------


## Triple Stack

My urologist lets me inject myself, as well as my clinic. Both gave me the script and said "have at at it"!
But my urologist was kind enough to show me how do do it my first visit to him, and said only if I wanted to LOL

----------


## Honkey_Kong

I've only been to this one place, so I was assuming most places were like that. I should probably ask them if they'd let me inject myself at home.

----------


## emmett

Keep goin bro. My clinic is scribing me winny tabs as well as other stuff (test c,etc..). I'm going to do a months worth and see where that takes me. I was told it is good for helping with BF. Bass, were you offered Winny?

----------


## APIs

> There is no price for true TRT. However, he stated he's going to use it as a cycle and run PCT. Thus, making it an expensive cycle. And you can put a price on that.
> 
> Adding compounds later after you find your sweet spot is understandable. But to initally start with three compounds when consistent blood levels should be established first? Come on jpkman, you've been around here long enough to know that's ridiclous. 
> 
> 
> 
> So you have low test as determined by your doctor/physician and you are going to run this TRT script once a year? So the rest of the year you are going to have low test? PCT will do nothing if you are already shutdown. Just because it comes from a "clinic" doesn't mean it is actual testosterone replacement therapy. People of all types wander this forum. This goes against TRUE trt and just confuses people trying to learn.
> 
> To each their own, I don't care what you do. However, this should be in the Anabolic forum, not the HRT forum.


No offense to anyone, but I can understand some of the above concerns being raised by Dante. I know every Dr./Clinic is different, but when compared to my own TRT introduction, it does seem to be a lot of compounds @ elevated levels for someone 'just' starting out. Plus knowing that TRT is for life & that money is an issue going forward, wouldnt the OP be better off making this known to the Clinic & maybe concentrating on a Test Cyp/Enan only protocol to save money? Again, not bashing anyone - just my $0.02...

----------


## bass

> Keep goin bro. My clinic is scribing me winny tabs as well as other stuff (test c,etc..). I'm going to do a months worth and see where that takes me. I was told it is good for helping with BF. Bass, were you offered Winny?


no but they put me on anavar !

----------


## bass

> No offense to anyone, but I can understand some of the above concerns being raised by Dante. I know every Dr./Clinic is different, but when compared to my own TRT introduction, it does seem to be a lot of compounds @ elevated levels for someone 'just' starting out. Plus knowing that TRT is for life & that money is an issue going forward, wouldnt the OP be better off making this known to the Clinic & maybe concentrating on a Test Cyp/Enan only protocol to save money? Again, not bashing anyone - just my $0.02...


i agree! but for me i needed the deca to help with joint pain, and anavar for fat loss! i am sure i won't be on them after this script is finished, most likely I'll be on Test C and some inhibitors!

----------


## bass

I've been having back pains, it feels on the surface, it starts from the front center of the rib cage and wraps around to the center of my back, it feel tender, not sure if its a side or just pulled muscle or maybe rib out place!

----------


## zaggahamma

anavar DOES NOT/WILL NOT create fat loss

----------


## bass

> anavar DOES NOT/WILL NOT create fat loss


i don't know exactly how it works, i am sure with good diet and exercise anavar will aid fat loss. also i read the profile from here,

http://www.steroid.com/Anavar.php

and according to the chart anavar has the highest fat loss rating!

----------


## zaggahamma

> i don't know exactly how it works, i am sure with good diet and exercise anavar will aid fat loss. also i read the profile from here,
> 
> http://www.steroid.com/Anavar.php
> 
> and according to the chart anavar has the highest fat loss rating!


i used to follow a couple anavar threads but dont most run var along with test?

----------


## bass

not sure why they prescribed it, it could be because of my creatinine serum level were on the high side, perhaps to help preserve muscle tissue!

----------


## bass

i am having unusual lower back pain, kind of like muscle aches and ribs feel tender to touch! i wonder if this is caused by Anastrozole! i will contact my clinic today. any thoughts on this? i am still taking 1/2 tablet a day which is 1/2 mg.

----------


## flatscat

I never heard of it causing ribs to ache, but as you know that is a ton, and I have heard of too much drying joints and causing issues there.

----------


## bass

thanks FlatsCat! i emailed my clinic and within 30 minutes they were on the phone, my coordinator and the endo, the endo asked how much water i was drinking and i told him two liters! he said no i need to drink at least one gallon, he recommend 1.5 to 2 gallons a day. he said the muscle ache and cramps is from not drinking enough water while on Anastrozole. so I'll work on that and see if it improves! i made a mistake in one of my posts when someone asked why was the anavar prescribed, i said it was to lean me out! well i was wrong, the endo said one of the benefits of Anastrozole is to make more more lean! so it was the anastrozole not the anavar!

my biceps are bigger and stronger, i love ho they feel and look! i took my third injection today, its getting easier every time! i am hopping that it will not get sore this time but will keep you posted!

----------


## JohnnyVegas

Man, it is hard to drink a gallon of water a day. I have been trying.

----------


## bass

> Man, it is hard to drink a gallon of water a day. I have been trying.


i know! its even harder in winter! if i drink one gallon ed i go to the bathroom every 40 minutes!

----------


## flatscat

So what was the purpose of the Anavar ? You are making my head spin brah. 

Don't get me wrong - I do wish you all the best. I am just confused with your doc's. We all, (or almost all of us) want the most out of our protocol. I just cant see prescribing you all of those compounds when you first start. I am dying to add Anavar to my trt, and will soon, but I have been on test and and ai, then after a while, test, hcg and an ai, then after my body adjusted to that I added some deca . I learned how my body reacted to each compound and was better off for it. Now if I add Anavar I will know exactly what differences I feel and can attribute to it. If I have an adverse reaction to it, I will know what caused it. I just don't want you to increase your odds of failure because you do not know what is doing what to your body. Maybe I am full of shiat, but the shiat is just tryin to look out for ya.

Now on the the adex "leaning you out". It does reduce the amount of water retained - so is that what they are talking about? Also, as you reduce BF, which will be easier for most with the t and a sensible diet and cardio, it will be easier to put on more lean mass, because we know BF adds to E2 and I believe the adex plays a big role in that reduction. Is that what they are sayin? 

I am glad your bi's are looking bigger and are stronger and hopefully all of this will work like a champ for you. I know you have been round the block and are not a newb to putting different compounds into your body. And I know why you are doing it. Just take it slow, and take it all in. If you feel like something is off, after you email your coordinator, let us know and maybe we can help also.

Flats

----------


## JohnnyVegas

> i know! its even harder in winter! if i drink one gallon ed i go to the bathroom every 40 minutes!


You and me both!

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## bass

i am trying to upload photos for a while now, but for some reason its not letting me! I'll try to link it somehow!

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## zaggahamma

agree with flats and glad its working for you

----------


## bass

> So what was the purpose of the Anavar ? You are making my head spin brah. 
> 
> Don't get me wrong - I do wish you all the best. I am just confused with your doc's. We all, (or almost all of us) want the most out of our protocol. I just cant see prescribing you all of those compounds when you first start. I am dying to add Anavar to my trt, and will soon, but I have been on test and and ai, then after a while, test, hcg and an ai, then after my body adjusted to that I added some deca . I learned how my body reacted to each compound and was better off for it. Now if I add Anavar I will know exactly what differences I feel and can attribute to it. If I have an adverse reaction to it, I will know what caused it. I just don't want you to increase your odds of failure because you do not know what is doing what to your body. Maybe I am full of shiat, but the shiat is just tryin to look out for ya.
> 
> Now on the the adex "leaning you out". It does reduce the amount of water retained - so is that what they are talking about? Also, as you reduce BF, which will be easier for most with the t and a sensible diet and cardio, it will be easier to put on more lean mass, because we know BF adds to E2 and I believe the adex plays a big role in that reduction. Is that what they are sayin? 
> 
> I am glad your bi's are looking bigger and are stronger and hopefully all of this will work like a champ for you. I know you have been round the block and are not a newb to putting different compounds into your body. And I know why you are doing it. Just take it slow, and take it all in. If you feel like something is off, after you email your coordinator, let us know and maybe we can help also.
> 
> Flats


thanks again, thats why i am posting on the daily basis so you and others can help me better understand and ask my clinic the right questions! i will ask him exactly why the anavar and get back to you!

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## flatscat

Bass,

Thanks, but as long as YOU know the reason and are comfortable with it - and what they are doing makes sense to YOU, that is all that matters really.

Flats

----------


## bass

FlatsCat, i really appreciate your comments, my first and foremost goal doing the TRT is to better my health not destroy it. so please feel free to chime anytime you see/read something suspicious! i will report as much as i can not only for me but to help others to learn as i am learning now!

----------


## bass

damn i still can't upload photos!

----------


## bass

lets try this!

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## bass

WTF! sorry about the huge arm, i mean photo!!! hehe!

----------


## bass

oops! the photo is gone! i give up.

----------


## bass

OK, lets try it one more time!

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## zaggahamma

looks similar to the pic in your avy cept w/o the tendon lookin muscle (name?) closer to the elbow...with the close up it you wouldnt guess it were an arm of one in their mid 40's (skin/muscle tone wise) nice work bro...i promis one in april  :Smilie:

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## bass

thanks, the difference is i am flexing hard in the avi and that was right after biceps workout, this one is at work with very light flex. i know my biceps have gotten bigger. now i need lose the fat!

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## zaggahamma

> thanks, the difference is i am flexing hard in the avi and that was right after biceps workout, this one is at work with very light flex. i know my biceps have gotten bigger. now i need lose the fat!


i hear ya bro...dont go and diet away muscle too!

----------


## bass

Update;

did my third injection yesterday and no soreness so far. overall i feel good, however i am getting real bad lower muscle cramps/tightness, when i contacted my clinic they said it was the Anastrozole! they said if the cramps don't go away with drinking lots of water i can stop for few days and see how it goes, i am thinking to stop now because i drank 1.5 gallons yesterday and had lots of lower back pain. i am also taking anavar 50mg ed, do you think i should stop taking it too or just the Anastrozole? I'll ask my coordinator as well.

----------


## zaggahamma

> Update;
> 
> did my third injection yesterday and no soreness so far. overall i feel good, however i am getting real bad lower muscle cramps/tightness, when i contacted my clinic they said it was the Anastrozole! they said if the cramps don't go away with drinking lots of water i can stop for few days and see how it goes, i am thinking to stop now because i drank 1.5 gallons yesterday and had lots of lower back pain. i am also taking anavar 50mg ed, do you think i should stop taking it too or just the Anastrozole? I'll ask my coordinator as well.


if u are having pains that DID NOT exist BEFORE this protocol i would seriously reconsider all....just have to wonder if you tried doing something a lil heavy or anything you didnt do before to cause it and it not to be the meds at all...did u say you liften often/heavy or not at all sorry cant remember details of every thread

----------


## bass

yes i do lift heavy four days and one day off. my muscles were very sore and tense before TRT, thats one of the reasons i considered TRT, the familiar pains are going away but the new one is my lower back. right now i feel no pain, i am assuming because i haven't taken the Anastrozole as of yet! just sent an email to the coordinator, I'll report back after i hear from him.

----------


## bass

all of a sudden i feel nauseous and looking pale! not sure if its because not taking the Anastrozole and anavar today, or its my stomach! my stomach is having mild cramps and making bubbling sounds! i get dizzy when i slant my head to the left or right.

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## zaggahamma

doesnt sound like something you DIDNT take....doctor asap

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## bass

if it didn't go away i would have rushed to the ER! but, its gone, it could have been something i ate, also some of my kids had the 24 hour bug so maybe that was it! i haven't heard from my coordinator as of yet! I'll follow up tomorrow...

----------


## bass

i haven't heard from the clinic as of yet! i believe my symptoms are related to the digestive system, I've paid a close attention to where and how i get the side pain. it seems to be more aggressive at night especially when i lay down to sleep. i was feeling nauseous yesterday but thats gone. the pain seems to build up slowly and when my stomach gurgles/bubbles it goes away, also when i go to the bathroom the pain subsides! is this symptom related to TRT or just a coincidence? i am planning to see my doctor today but it could take some time to diagnose what i have, so any help or information from you guys as to what this could be it will be greatly appreciated.

----------


## bass

i looked up side effects from Anastrozole and i have most of them! i will try to see my doctor today, if i can't should i go to ER?! am i being paranoid here?!

another question, should i discontinue my injections?

http://www.drugs.com/sfx/anastrozole-side-effects.html

----------


## flatscat

I have read that stomach disorders are common for the first week or two on Anavar , then they go away. Not saying this is what you are experiencing - just a thought. Now are you seeing why adding one thing at a time might make sense? You have no idea which one of your rx's (if it is even one of your scripts) is causing what because you have no experience with any of them.

Not saying I told ya so, i'm jus sayin...... :Wink/Grin: 

I dont think I would discontinue your injections.

waiting for an update after your visit with your doc. hope it turns out to be nothing!

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## bass

i am with you, i just trusted the clinic and didn't want to alter their script.

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## flatscat

have you read the same thing about the stomach issues and Anavar ? Maybe someone else can chime in with Anavar experience. You feeling better?

----------


## bass

not at all, still feeling lots of pain on my side. just called the doc and the secretary said they're booked for today, i begged her to take me in today, i am waiting for their call! i am concerned, i read so much testimonials on the net and most stated even stooping Anastrozole did not reverse the sides! but these were older folks and long term users. am i being paranoid here? i am worried, could two weeks of Anastrozole or anavar screw me up?

----------


## flatscat

I can't tell you if you are being paranoid or not, I can say I dont ever recall anyone posting on this board that anastrozole caused those symptoms. 

Did you check out the sides of anavar and see if they fit?

----------


## flatscat

JP - u ever heard of that?

----------


## JohnnyVegas

Hoping this passes soon. This is such a great reminder of what we are all doing. I think all the kids show up thinking it is easy: take drugs on list, lift weights, eat food, GET HUMUNGOUS. There is a lot of trial and error, and everyone reacts differently to these drugs.

----------


## zaggahamma

*




 Originally Posted by flatscat


I can't tell you if you are being paranoid or not, I can say I dont ever recall anyone posting on this board that anastrozole caused those symptoms.


*


> Did you check out the sides of anavar and see if they fit?


for one...ditto from me

----------


## zaggahamma

> JP - u ever heard of that?


never heard or experienced any such sides bass is complaining of...if i were guessing i would say coincidence but who's gonna be happy/secure with a guess...

----------


## bass

okay guys, thanks for your comments! in few minutes I'll be doing an x-ray, just got back from the doc and he thinks i got a fractured rib! not sure how i could have done that! i also showed him my script and the only thing he said was "its a compound" and "make sure you do periodic blood work" and "how do you feel?"...nothing negative! wish me luck, lets hope it is a fractured rib...LOL, its funny what you wish for in some circumstances! my doc said if it is a fractured rib i can't lift for 3 months! this sucks, i will need advise from you guys as to what exercises to do and which one to avoid, i really don't want to sit back for 3 months while on this compound!

----------


## bass

> I can't tell you if you are being paranoid or not, I can say I dont ever recall anyone posting on this board that anastrozole caused those symptoms. 
> 
> Did you check out the sides of anavar and see if they fit?


yes anavar has similar sides, but all drugs seem to have similar sides!

----------


## The Toad

> okay guys, thanks for your comments! in few minutes I'll be doing an x-ray, just got back from the doc and he thinks i got a fractured rib! not sure how i could have done that! i also showed him my script and the only thing he said was "its a compound" and "make sure you do periodic blood work" and "how do you feel?"...nothing negative! wish me luck, lets hope it is a fractured rib...LOL, its funny what you wish for in some circumstances! my doc said if it is a fractured rib i can't lift for 3 months! this sucks, i will need advise from you guys as to what exercises to do and which one to avoid, i really don't want to sit back for 3 months while on this compound!


 It is funny what you wish for. I really hope things work out well for you.

----------


## bass

thanks Toad! did the x-ray and now waiting for results! also forgot to mention, i also asked my doc about nausea and he said its common with my condition, assuming i have a fractured rib!

----------


## zaggahamma

if u dont have a clue how u fractured a rib imma guess u dont have one...just my .02 and another guess  :Smilie:

----------


## bass

maybe its a pulled muscle! thats a possibility.

----------


## bass

it could very well be a pulled muscle, i haven't heard from the doc yet, but this is why i believe its a pulled muscle, see my post below,

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...50#post5496650

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## bass

the clinic doc and my coordinator just called and they assured me that the amounts i am taking are very low and shouldn't have any sides, especially at this stage. i told them about my rib pain and they said that makes more sense where the pain is coming from rather than the compounds! they will do blood work within couple of weeks or so to see where my levels are and go from there.

----------


## zaggahamma

> the clinic doc and my coordinator just called and they assured me that the amounts i am taking are very low and shouldn't have any sides, especially at this stage. i told them about my rib pain and they said that makes more sense where the pain is coming from rather than the compounds! they will do blood work within couple of weeks or so to see where my levels are and go from there.


i have to agree if i'm reading correctly but if you read your post carefully it is confusing...."i told them about my rib pain and they said that makes more sense where the pain......" 

MAKES MORE SENSE WHAT????????

----------


## bass

they never heard or know of anyone that had pains as described due to TRT, they don't see a correlation with the pain site and the compounds, to them it makes sense that the pain is generated from a bruised/fractured rib than the compound causing it! i hope thats clear!

----------


## nicnitro

I've changed to a 25 gauge 5/8 needle about 4 years ago. My test is blended with grape seed oil and I pin in my quads. Most definitely add the HCG twice a week.

----------


## bass

can you believe this! as my back is recovering now my left elbow is inflamed! this really sucks...

----------


## The Toad

> can you believe this! as my back is recovering now my left elbow is inflamed! this really sucks...


The older I get, it seems like it's always something. I get problems in my elbow when I do hammer curls. You might want to look at what you have been doing in your training.

----------


## zaggahamma

> The older I get, it seems like it's always something. I get problems in my elbow when I do hammer curls. You might want to look at what you have been doing in your training.


i can second that...

heavy dumbells will FVCK ur elbow up...tendonitis will get you...happened to me when throwing them up to press them(incline) but i can see the hammer curl have a similar rom...i got thru most of my elbow(s) pain and am back doing them again but dropped em for about 6 months.

----------


## APIs

> i can second that...
> 
> heavy dumbells will FVCK ur elbow up...tendonitis will get you...happened to me when throwing them up to press them(incline) but i can see the hammer curl have a similar rom...i got thru most of my elbow(s) pain and am back doing them again but dropped em for about 6 months.


I just got over having Tennis Elbow for 3+ months. Thank goodness for Cortisone injections! Went from doing skull crushers with a 125 lb curling bar down to using a 40 lb one (with pain) - ugh. Took two injections to finally get rid of it. Something always seems to be hurting...

----------


## bass

yup, thats what i have been doing but instead of dumbbells i use rope! you are correct, it seems every time i do hammer curls i get elbow pain, i guess I'll drop the hammers or just do it with light weight! now i got to wait! the only thing i can do is leg press, leg curls, and leg extensions, pretty soon I'll be confined to a wheelchair!

----------


## Far from massive

On the elbow pain make sure not to rotate the wrist when doing any curls this will put undue stress on the attachment point and aggravate the microtears that are causing the symptoms.

I don't know if your sickness was ever diagnosed or passed but food for thought I had a blow to the chest once and had fever, sickness etc and was told (by ER) it was bruised ribs after z rays came back negative, two days of working as a mechanic and pushstarting my dodge van by myself..the problems worsened (I was young and figgured what the hell it would hurt but bruised ribs were not dangerous) anyway 2 days later it was worse went to my reg practitioner who is an internist and he diagnosed a subcapsular haematoma of the spleen in about 1 minute, I went by ambulance from his office to another hospital for observation...after 4 days of observation the swelling had deminished enough so they knew it would not rupture ( often fatal) and sent me home for another week of bed rest.

FFM

----------


## bass

what is subcapsular haematoma?

----------


## bass

> On the elbow pain make sure not to rotate the wrist when doing any curls this will put undue stress on the attachment point and aggravate the microtears that are causing the symptoms.
> 
> FFM


this is exactly how i do it, it seems more natural and less pain on my joint. i believe the elbow problem is from triceps workout.

----------


## chi

> I think he means, "Plan B: I ran out of money or clinic won't prescribe anymore, so I got to try & kick start my balls into making some test - emergency contingency plan"!
> 
> *My thoughts are after this "cycle", dry out for a month. Then get bloodwork done when you are totally shut down and go back to your doc when the report shows your test levels are like 50. They'll probably put you on something then!*
> 
> The doc didn't prescribe it before because you were low normal at 299. They seem to only care about the number and are suspicious and scared of steroid use .
> 
> But tell them you have a headache and they'll write you a script for some oxycontins. Or tell them your 7 yr old child is a little hyper and they'll give him amphetamines (adderall) no questions asked. Go figure.


Were you joking or being sarcastic about this? Hope you are for Bass' sake.

----------


## zaggahamma

> I just got over having Tennis Elbow for 3+ months. Thank goodness for Cortisone injections! Went from doing skull crushers with a 125 lb curling bar down to using a 40 lb one (with pain) - ugh. Took two injections to finally get rid of it. Something always seems to be hurting...


same happened to me but i dropped EVERYTHING that hurt...had the cortisone ...FELT GREAT...but that aint what gets rid of it brah...just masks the pain

----------


## zaggahamma

> On the elbow pain make sure not to rotate the wrist when doing any curls this will put undue stress on the attachment point and aggravate the microtears that are causing the symptoms.
> 
> I don't know if your sickness was ever diagnosed or passed but food for thought I had a blow to the chest once and had fever, sickness etc and was told (by ER) it was bruised ribs after z rays came back negative, two days of working as a mechanic and pushstarting my dodge van by myself..the problems worsened (I was young and figgured what the hell it would hurt but bruised ribs were not dangerous) anyway 2 days later it was worse went to my reg practitioner who is an internist and he diagnosed a subcapsular haematoma of the spleen in about 1 minute, I went by ambulance from his office to another hospital for observation...after 4 days of observation the swelling had deminished enough so they knew it would not rupture ( often fatal) and sent me home for another week of bed rest.
> 
> FFM


thats fvckin scary..glad u ok bro

----------


## zaggahamma

> this is exactly how i do it, it seems more natural and less pain on my joint. i believe the elbow problem is from triceps workout.


my tendonitis was so bad it hurt to pick up a book  :Frown:

----------


## bass

I've been eating turmeric and it seems to lessen the pain. any of you tried it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svqVuQszSH0&feature=fvw

----------


## The Toad

Sounds interesting. Are you taking the pills or just adding to your food.

----------


## bass

just taking it raw, one teaspoon into my mouth then wash it down with a glass of water! very nasty, but if it works then i don't mind it!

----------


## APIs

> same happened to me but i dropped EVERYTHING that hurt...had the cortisone ...FELT GREAT...but that aint what gets rid of it brah...just masks the pain


No I've been told the cortisone reduces swelling in the affected area which allows healing to take place at a quicker rate. That's how it was explained to me & I tend to believe it. Besides it only lasts a day or two, so any "masking" wouldnt last very long. I've always responded well to Cortisone shots. Cant rely on them too much though, as they can weaken tendons...

----------


## bass

yes thats my understanding as well, i also agree with JPK by dropping everything that hurts until everything is 100% healed.




> No I've been told the cortisone reduces swelling in the affected area which allows healing to take place at a quicker rate. That's how it was explained to me & I tend to believe it. Besides it only lasts a day or two, so any "masking" wouldnt last very long. I've always responded well to Cortisone shots. Cant rely on them too much though, as they can weaken tendons...

----------


## bass

an update,

today will be doing my fourth injection, all the familiar pain is about 95% gone, but been getting new pains! first it was my back on the left side, then my left elbow, then the inside of my left foot from doing calves, and now my back on the right side, but the new pains seem to recover quickly, like my left back which my doc thought it was a fractured rib is almost gone, my elbow is healing as well! don't understand what this is! could it be that my body is going through a shock and rebuilding it self with these compounds?!

----------


## The Toad

> an update,
> 
> today will be doing my fourth injection, all the familiar pain is about 95% gone, but been getting new pains! first it was my back on the left side, then my left elbow, then the inside of my left foot from doing calves, and now my back on the right side, but the new pains seem to recover quickly, like my left back which my doc thought it was a fractured rib is almost gone, my elbow is healing as well! don't understand what this is! could it be that my body is going through a shock and rebuilding it self with these compounds?!


Have you really stepped up the training intensity?

----------


## zaggahamma

> Have you really stepped up the training intensity?


thats all i can think of...were my thoughts exactly...pythons still growin? any other positives to go with your aches and pains?

----------


## Far from massive

A subcapsular heamatoma means that the organ is damaged and leaking blood within the capsule that surrounds many organs (spleen, gall bladder, appendix etc), hence "subcapsular" if the swelling had continued it would have burst through the capsule which can cause death from septic shock.

----------


## bass

maybe better form but no increase in weights! been using the same weights! i didn't increase for that reason, is to avoid injuries. again these injuries/pains seem to come and go fairly quick, 1-2 weeks and they're gone. 




> Have you really stepped up the training intensity?

----------


## bass

okay now you're scaring the shit out of me! what are the symptoms?




> A subcapsular heamatoma means that the organ is damaged and leaking blood within the capsule that surrounds many organs (spleen, gall bladder, appendix etc), hence "subcapsular" if the swelling had continued it would have burst through the capsule which can cause death from septic shock.

----------


## JohnnyVegas

Your TRT has the opposite effect of mine. I have had FEWER aches and pains and ZERO new injuries. I thought you were taking TRT to feel BETTER!

You know I am kidding.

----------


## bass

well yea if my doc prescribe 400mgs test per week then i may have the same effect as your! LOL!

----------


## bass

little sore from yesterday's injection, i am getting better at it though, usually walking makes the soreness go away! my elbow tendonitis is going away fast, but still won't do any lifting until its completely healed! i can't wait to hit the gym hard, it sucks when injuries occur during cycles or while on TRT!

----------


## bass

finally my family doc called regarding the xray, its just a pulled muscle he said! anyway the pain is almost gone!

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## zaggahamma

> finally my family doc called regarding the xray, its just a pulled muscle he said! anyway the pain is almost gone!


so what hurts now??????????? lol...j/k

----------


## bass

my ankles! LOL! i guess three cardios a day can put some wear and tear on your joints!

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## JohnnyVegas

> well yea if my doc prescribe 400mgs test per week then i may have the same effect as your! LOL!


Hey, I only did 400mg for a week before I understood that taking more wasn't really TRT, and not in line with my goals. I am on 200mg a week.

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## zaggahamma

> my ankles! LOL! i guess three cardios a day can put some wear and tear on your joints!


 lol...yeh i shouldnt be jabbin ya....i get the nags and aches all da time...chronic back bain and like a dummy messin 'round with deadlifts got me yesterday but ice has been my friend today and i'll be back in da gym tomorrow but now deads for a few months...i love deads  :Frown:

----------


## bass

i hear you bro, when you have the urge to lift its hard to resist temptation! it sucks being old!

----------


## bass

its been almost 4 weeks since i started TRT, it was yesterday when i started to feel a real relief if joint pain, i did legs yesterday, my max weight for squats has been 150 lbs due to knees pain, i did 17 lbs comfortable. shoulder pains are disappearing and it feels great to be able to rotate my shoulders with very little discomfort! also when i jog and walk my ankles have very pain compared to before. i am hopping it will get better as i go. also like to mention, when i started TRT my body fat was at 22.5% according to my fat monitor, and now its bellow 20%! I've gain about 10 lbs so far, but now i feel i started burning the fat! so I'll keep you posted.

----------


## 38jumper38

Nice to ear that, hope you healing fast, wish u t best...............

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## JohnnyVegas

Four weeks is when I started to feel different as well. Libido and muscle were up, fat was down (a smidge) and misc aches and pains were gone.

----------


## bass

took my fifth injection today, for some reason it felt good, i think I'm getting high on this stuff! this time i did it without drawing a plus on my ass to find the outer quadrant!

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## The Toad

> took my fifth injection today, for some reason it felt good, i think I'm getting high on this stuff! this time i did it without drawing a plus on my ass to find the outer quadrant!


Are you using permanent marker?

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## bass

heck no! thats toxic! i use water based erasable, but i make a huge circle and the needle is at least 1.5 away from any line!

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## zaggahamma

i use the whole fatt a$$ and never aspirated blood no need for all that math and thinkin

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## The Toad

I was just joking with you.

----------


## Triple Stack

> heck no! thats toxic! i use water based erasable, but i make a huge circle and the needle is at least 1.5 away from any line!


LOL You actually drew a bullseye on your butt! That's great...I never thought of a "visual aid" when I first started booting. Good idea though!

----------


## bass

> LOL You actually drew a bullseye on your butt! That's great...I never thought of a "visual aid" when I first started booting. Good idea though!


yea i learned how to do it from this video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7otcm...has_verified=1

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## 38jumper38

Men that video its so old, I'm 39 and haven't see a glass sering, except in museums or in this video, but good learning anyway.

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## bass

update!

this morning was the first time my body fat monitor read 19.5%! i am loosing fat for sure, much faster than expected! still weigh at about 204 lbs. i was doing some work and was standing slightly bend forward, and when i stood up my thigh muscle almost cramped up, and it felt like the way i feel after intense squats, and it stayed sore for few hours! weird but it felt good! my muscles are rock hard, even my son who is a bodybuilder noticed it. more definition for sure. so far so good!

----------


## emmett

Bass, I have tendonitis as well and for that reason havent started my trt script. When you say your tendonitis went away, do you think its the Deca ?

----------


## The Toad

I would like to know this as well, it gives me all sorts of problems. If so I have got to find a way to get my Doc to prescribe

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## bass

i can't really say what it is, but before TRT my tendinitis used to lasts 3-5 months to heal, this one was just as bad but it went away in two weeks! it still there i don't think it will ever go away, but at least i don't feel pain when not working out and can do my regular lifting with little discomfort. i had another 8 month old problem, both my trapezius muscles were locked and felt like they were inflamed, couldn't do shoulder and chest workout, but now its all gone! my coordinator said the deca was for my joints, so i guess deca has something to do with it.

----------


## bass

also like to mention, my rotator cuffs always gave me pain when doing chest workout, thats going away as well, probably 90% healed!

----------


## zaggahamma

> also like to mention, my rotator cuffs always gave me pain when doing chest workout, thats going away as well, probably 90% healed!


thats where i felt most relief when running deca was rotator cuff pain

----------


## bass

this morning i noticed my right nipple a little sensitive! i haven't gotten an answer yet but i emailed my clinic if i should increase my anastrozole dose! currently i am taking 1/2 mg (1/2 pill) each day, should i increase to 1 per day?

----------


## bass

worked my biceps today, i am getting amazing pumps the last 3 weeks and i am loving it. here is a pic few hours after workout.

----------


## APIs

.5mg ED sounds a bit much to begin with. I can't imagine them saying 1 mg/day?

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## APIs

Hey Bass, dont you know? You're not supposed to be that jacked @ your age! The weak-suits say so! ;-)

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## bass

the clinic is ordering a blood test to see where my levels are at. I'll post the results here.

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## optionsdude

Sounds like you found a good clinic. I know you can't mention the name but do the initials rhyme with park, or does the first word rhyme with Lee? The clinic I am using prescribed 10 weeks of test c and deca with anastrozole the first 2 days after the injection. Then after that I ran a PCT of HCG and clomiphene. As some of the other guys mentioned I did not feel as good after it was all over. Got a new coordinator and he perscribed test c again and stanozolol 25 mg ed with 1.2 mg anastrozole for the first 3 days after each injection and .40ml HCG for days 5 and 6. I just started week 3 of this and I am not crazy about the stanozolol. I felt great while on the test and deca but not as good now. I will give the stanozolol another week and then I'm calling the clinic to see how to go about stopping the stanozolol. Getting headaches and some body aches. One thing that concerned me is on the profile forum of stanozolol they do not recommend taking for more than 6 weeks and the clinic has me taking this stuff for 10 weeks.I had neck surgery last may and the test deca combo really helped with my recovery. I am 44 and my test level was very low before starting therapy. Might look into another clinic after bloodwork next month.

----------


## bass

check your PM!




> Sounds like you found a good clinic. I know you can't mention the name but do the initials rhyme with park, or does the first word rhyme with Lee? The clinic I am using prescribed 10 weeks of test c and deca with anastrozole the first 2 days after the injection. Then after that I ran a PCT of HCG and clomiphene. As some of the other guys mentioned I did not feel as good after it was all over. Got a new coordinator and he perscribed test c again and stanozolol 25 mg ed with 1.2 mg anastrozole for the first 3 days after each injection and .40ml HCG for days 5 and 6. I just started week 3 of this and I am not crazy about the stanozolol. I felt great while on the test and deca but not as good now. I will give the stanozolol another week and then I'm calling the clinic to see how to go about stopping the stanozolol. Getting headaches and some body aches. One thing that concerned me is on the profile forum of stanozolol they do not recommend taking for more than 6 weeks and the clinic has me taking this stuff for 10 weeks.I had neck surgery last may and the test deca combo really helped with my recovery. I am 44 and my test level was very low before starting therapy. Might look into another clinic after bloodwork next month.

----------


## bass

did my injection today, got little lightheaded and started to sweat a little. what happen is as soon as i bottomed out on the needle i felt a sharp pain as if i hit a nerve, i withdrew and injected on the opposite side, then felt lightheaded for couple of minutes! that did not feel good, i thought i was going to puke. the whole family been sick the last few days, puking and stomach pain, maybe that had something to do with it too. anyway, did the blood work today and will post it as soon as i get the results.

----------


## bass

just an observation!

i noticed i get more tired and feel aches and pains a couple of days before my injection day, i am assuming my levels are tapering down toward the end of the week. i did my last blood test on my injection day but before injecting, i am sure it will show low levels, if so i may have to inject twice a week! but I'll have to wait and see what the clinic suggests!

----------


## bass

latest blood work! i am concerned about my kidneys, it always read high on creatinine and low on eGFR but this time its a little more on creatinine and less on eGFR. should i be concerned about this?

----------


## optionsdude

This is another reason I asked about your clinic. My clinic only wants my bloodwork once per year. I am not crazy about spending extra money but if it keeps a better eye on my progress, and possible negative sides I'm all for it. Thanks for posting your results.

----------


## APIs

My creatinine has typically been over 1.3-1.4. I remember the hospital once refusing to use dye during a cat scan because of my 1.4 creatinine levels & possible kidney damage. The er doc came in & looked at me and said; "no wonder yours is high!" "Look at you!" My TRT doc was never concerned. He feels it goes hand in hand with the extra muscle mass we carry. Does yr doc want to address yr estradiol levels or is he fine with that number?

----------


## bass

thanks for your notes! they'll be calling me today to discuss the results. when they did the estradiol test it came at 27 and they thought it was high, so i am assuming they'll be making an adjustment. i did complain about nipple sensitivity and fat gain, thats why they ordered the blood work. I'll keep you guys posted!

----------


## bass

just finished speaking with my clinic, they suggested to have my primary physician look into my elevated potassium and kidney function just to be safe, they were not overly concerned but they want to play it safe. they said usually elevated creatinine and low eGFR in kidney can be easily fixed in early stages, they are more concerned about eGFR and high potassium. they took me off of anavar , they believe my muscle cramps are probably cased by it. they also said to take 1mg Anastrozole the day after my injection and 1/2 mg daily thereafter. i won't hear from my doc until Monday, can you guys recommend how i can lower my potassium?

----------


## bass

yesterday i only took 1/2 of anavar dose, that was before my clinic said to stop taking anavar, and today is my first day no anavar, i must say i have much less joint pain and muscle aches, and slept much better last night. the first two weeks i noticed a tremendous improvement in joint and muscle pains, but after that it kept getting worse to a point that it was worse than before i started TRT! i guess the anavar is not for me. another thing, i felt very bloated, but thats improving already.

----------


## rebel70

The var was most likely the cause of the joint pains.Now your estro was not real bad.I was told to stay as close to 29 as possible.I started at 21.7 so I am getting away with low dose ai until I check my blood again in a couple weeks.And I would of figured the deca would cause some bloating with the test and not the var.

----------


## bass

you're right, everything i read about var and deca is what you pointed out, not sure what it was, but i am feeling much lighter! the pains on my lower back muscle are almost gone! fvck anavar , the sides are not worth it! for me at least...

----------


## optionsdude

Sorry to hear the var didn't work out for you Bass. Hang in there and I hope it all works out for you especially with the muscle aches. Aches and pain suck.

----------


## bass

i am having second thoughts about TRT! I've been having headaches lately and feeling tired! as you have seem my blood work, my kidney function was effected and my potassium level went above normal. the last thing i want is to lose my kidneys, they are not as healthy as i want them to be to begin with! i agree with one of the members who suggested that my script was too heavy to start with, perhaps the deca and anavar did more harm than good, i m also questioning the B12 shots! i read the sides and they coincide with what i am experiencing. here is whats going on, an I'll list only the negative sides,

feeling tired
headaches
dizziness
muscle cramps and muscle ache
stomach pains

i am still waiting for my doc to call me regarding my last blood work results, haven't heard from him.

NOTE, i like the fact the TRT had some good effects but not sure if they are worth the above sides! and i only been on it for 6 weeks, i can't imagine what it will do to me in a year!

----------


## The Toad

Damn Bass that sucks! Maybe it would be a good idea to back off to just the Test and if that doesn't give you problems you could add other compounds that you want one at a time so you can see which one is giving you the problems. Just a thought..... good luck

----------


## big_ron

Deff just go back to what trt is suppose to be. TESTOSTERONE replacement therapy.

----------


## bass

thanks Guys, thats my plan! I'll keep you posted.

----------


## bass

just got a call from my family doc and he said according to my blood work my kidneys are dehydrated! he maybe right, the days i got my blood drawn i hardly drank water, i was just struggling with that, but now i am back to 1 gallon a day! the only thing he was concerned about was my testosterone level, he said it was too high! so he is getting an approval from my insurance to refer an endo! I'll keep you posted!

----------


## flatscat

Bass, You are all over the place bro. What is it you think your endo will say when you tell him what you have been doing? He is gonna say stop everything and we will redo b/w in 6-12 weeks. Can you post your b/w results that your family doc talked about? So lemme get this straight. You went to a clinic instead of your family doc first? Then they gave you the holy grail of hrt. Then you went to your family doc and said I feel like shiat? And then he orders b/w and says holy crap you need an endo? No disrespect meant by this. But looking over this thread now it is hard to tell why you got on trt, what your goals were when you did, what you thought the outcome would be, and where you are going. 

But, I think your clinic did you an injustice by throwing all those compounds at you. It is hard not to jump at all of them, because, hell, they all are supposed to do great things to our bodies - right? I would have done the same as you prolly if it had happened to me.

I hope this thread is a lesson for all who are checking out these clinics - they do have a place in the trt world, but can do more harm than good as well. 

Man, I really wish you the best of luck and hope you can get it all straightened out.

----------


## APIs

> Bass, You are all over the place bro. What is it you think your endo will say when you tell him what you have been doing? He is gonna say stop everything and we will redo b/w in 6-12 weeks. Can you post your b/w results that your family doc talked about?


x 2. Why is the OP bouncing between Medical Professionals? The Endo (if not trained in this) will only shut down his entire TRT. IMO, this could all have been prevented with a typical TRT starting dose of 50 to 100 mgs/week and evaluate & adjust from there. No offense, but is it possible that your over-reacting to the simple aches & pains we all get from lifting/TRT? If I called the Dr. for every ache, pain or symptom I have, I'd never get anything done...

----------


## bass

hold on guys! you all know this is new to me and the reason i am posting here is to get help in this journey and hopefully help others learn from my experience! my last blood work is posted above. 

what do you mean i am allover the place? should i just not give you details anymore? i am not making this stuff up, its what i am experiencing. of course i'll be worried if i experience something new while injecting myself with powerful hormones, wouldn't you?! i don't know what the endo is going to say, but i got nothing to lose! 

Today i did my injection of test only along with my daily AI, and so far not taking var and deca seem to be getting rid of the sides.

API, i didn't just wakeup one day and decided to do TRT, i've been struggling with lots of pain for a long time, not simple pains! weakness, lack of motivation, you name it, i was getting it. I’ve been reading for the last 2 years about TRT and the pros and cons, but actually doing it is not the same as reading about it. my test was very low at 299! and my goal is just like anyone's goal when considering TRT, legit TRT not for bodybuilding reasons like most young guys do, i am 51 so do the math!

----------


## APIs

> API, i didn't just wakeup one day and decided to do TRT, i've been struggling with lots of pain for a long time, not simple pains! weakness, lack of motivation, you name it, i was getting it. I’ve been reading for the last 2 years about TRT and the pros and cons, but actually doing it is not the same as reading about it. my test was very low at 299! and my goal is just like anyone's goal when considering TRT, legit TRT not for bodybuilding reasons like most young guys do, i am 51 so do the math!


I didn't either & I'm not trying to offend you. Only asked a legitimate question. I've been through the ringer myself & deal with pain on a regular basis. I only noticed you keep experiencing many different things since you started TRT. Only inferred that these symptoms you're experiencing might work themselves out. Sorry...

----------


## flatscat

Bass, 

I really do want you to get everything worked out.

If you were a noob reading this thread, what do you think you should learn from your experience? I hope your body settles into the t and ai quickly. Are you telling the clinic about the endo visit or are you keeping that door open for a quick exit if you don't like what the endo says?

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## bass

Thanks Flats! actually i am keeping everyone in the loop, my clinic and my doc. the whole idea of going through the clinic is to do this right and legal, so of course I'll keep everyone in the loop, its my health arterial!

----------


## bass

i didn't answer your question, no i am not looking for an exit, i just want to make sure i end up with script that works and doesn't hinder my health. i went to my doc based on the clinic's recommendation BTW! they said to go and see my family doc regarding my kidney function!

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## flatscat

Makes sense. What about your experience so far would you like for new guys looking at trt to learn?

----------


## bass

probably to early for me to make any recommendations, but i believe if one sticks with test and AI for TRT reasons then it could be a good thing, but so far the compounds i got created too many unwanted sides, too much for AAS virgin!

----------


## optionsdude

Hey Bass could it be allergies? I started feeling this way about 1 week into my 2nd round of therapy and was thinking it was the change in compounds. I've never really had allergies in the past and the pollen has been horrible for the last month out here. The rains started on sunday and I noticed today I did not have the headache and loss of energy I've had for the last few weeks. As to your stomach problems I don't have an explanation for that. Just an idea.

----------


## bass

> Hey Bass could it be allergies? I started feeling this way about 1 week into my 2nd round of therapy and was thinking it was the change in compounds. I've never really had allergies in the past and the pollen has been horrible for the last month out here. The rains started on sunday and I noticed today I did not have the headache and loss of energy I've had for the last few weeks. As to your stomach problems I don't have an explanation for that. Just an idea.


thats a possibility! but the stomach was because of anavar ! the clinic thought so and its gone as soon as i stopped along with the muscle and joint aches. my clinic and i had a long talk over the phone and now i am only on test and AI, they said perhaps once everything comes down and my body gets used to the new hormones we can revisit the other compounds! for me i don't think I'll add more compounds unless its very necessary. i been feeling very good so far, but my blood pressure is up a little, mostly because i haven't been exercising due to time constraint.

----------


## bass

Update:

its been about 2 weeks since i stopped taking var, deca and B12 shots, i must say i feel like a new man, most of the sides i listed in my previous post are gone with the exception of cramps, in fact if i flex my calve or lift my leg while lying down i can easily get a cramp. according to my last blood work my potassium was above normal, not sure if raised potassium can cause craps! however i've been eating low potassium foods just to help get my potassium down, could i have gotten it too low?! anyway, my insurance approved the endo referral and hopefully she has knowledge of HRT. the funny thing though, my family doc is only concerned about my high test level! i appreciate your thought about the cramps i am getting so easily, could elevated potassium case cramps?

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## zaggahamma

wow like always...learn something new everyday..i would think being low on potass would/could cause cramps...glad youre feeling better....i would bust dat deca 's ass if i had it though!

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## The Toad

Yeah Bass maybe you better send that DECA to me so I can make sure it wasn't bunk

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## bass

LOL! i still have about 3/4 vial of deca , and about 30 doses of 50mg var which i don't think I'll ever use! but the clinic suggested to hang on to them for a later time. we'll see!

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## lifeforce0019

I would be willing to bite the bullet and take the var off your hands to help remove your temptation!  :Smilie:

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## zaggahamma

so much love 'round here it aint funny...always ppl ready to help dispose of unwanted gear

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## bass

i would give it away, but then my privacy will be shot to pieces!!! besides i don't think you guys will inject anything in your blood given to you by a stranger!

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## flatscat

Ok, I will let you send it to me (my privacy gone) in a package with no return address (your privacy not gone). Problem solved.

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## BeastintheSheets

The endo will tell you nothing you don't already know. Anavar is a lame drug in that it causes cramping, cholesterol problems, and possibly other nasty things. Perhaps there are some freaks that can tolerate a long cycle dose of 50mg/day, but I personally noticed the cramping even on 25mg/day in just 2 days, and they were bad cramps. A little di-potassium phosphate attenuated it, but anavar is known to screw with electrolyte values. I think deca is a far safer drug than anavar. 200mg/week may be too much deca. 100mg/week shouldn't give you much trouble and soothe your joints, but you may be asking for ED while the DECA is in your system. You were basically probably prescribed Arnold's TRT program. lol Test is all you need to hang onto muscle mass and gain nicely. It all comes down to caloric intake anyway. Even if you are on all this stuff and your calories are near 2-3k (low) you are still going to get no real net benefit from the extras. I doubt at 50 you are trying to become Mr. Universe. Props on finding a cool doc though. I keep my estrogen at 30 and have no problems. I run 125mg/4-5 days and have no need for an anti-e. Don't freak out, just realize that anavar has nasty sides and 50mg is what the guys on this forum take for 8 weeks to get big alone with everything else. Their lipids take a beating on it.

----------


## bass

> The endo will tell you nothing you don't already know. Anavar is a lame drug in that it causes cramping, cholesterol problems, and possibly other nasty things. Perhaps there are some freaks that can tolerate a long cycle dose of 50mg/day, but I personally noticed the cramping even on 25mg/day in just 2 days, and they were bad cramps. A little di-potassium phosphate attenuated it, but anavar is known to screw with electrolyte values. I think deca is a far safer drug than anavar. 200mg/week may be too much deca. 100mg/week shouldn't give you much trouble and soothe your joints, but you may be asking for ED while the DECA is in your system. You were basically probably prescribed Arnold's TRT program. lol Test is all you need to hang onto muscle mass and gain nicely. It all comes down to caloric intake anyway. Even if you are on all this stuff and your calories are near 2-3k (low) you are still going to get no real net benefit from the extras. I doubt at 50 you are trying to become Mr. Universe. Props on finding a cool doc though. I keep my estrogen at 30 and have no problems. I run 125mg/4-5 days and have no need for an anti-e. Don't freak out, just realize that anavar has nasty sides and 50mg is what the guys on this forum take for 8 weeks to get big alone with everything else. Their lipids take a beating on it.


Hey thanks allot for reading my log and for your post! i am glad you mentioned the nasty sides from var because i was thinking it was just me! i can't tell you how good i feel now that i have stopped taking anavar , my highest weight for squats was 170 or 180, today i did 205 and felt i could do more! i think i will be happy with just test for the rest of my life, and you are correct, my goal is just be in good shape and somewhat muscular, definitely not mr. Olympia!

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## zaggahamma

> The endo will tell you nothing you don't already know. Anavar is a lame drug in that it causes cramping, cholesterol problems, and possibly other nasty things. Perhaps there are some freaks that can tolerate a long cycle dose of 50mg/day, but I personally noticed the cramping even on 25mg/day in just 2 days, and they were bad cramps. A little di-potassium phosphate attenuated it, but anavar is known to screw with electrolyte values. I think deca is a far safer drug than anavar. 200mg/week may be too much deca. 100mg/week shouldn't give you much trouble and soothe your joints, but you may be asking for ED while the DECA is in your system. You were basically probably prescribed Arnold's TRT program. lol Test is all you need to hang onto muscle mass and gain nicely. It all comes down to caloric intake anyway. Even if you are on all this stuff and your *calories are near 2-3k (low) you are still going to get no real net benefit from the extras.* I doubt at 50 you are trying to become Mr. Universe. Props on finding a cool doc though. I keep my estrogen at 30 and have no problems. I run 125mg/4-5 days and have no need for an anti-e. Don't freak out, just realize that anavar has nasty sides and 50mg is what the guys on this forum take for 8 weeks to get big alone with everything else. Their lipids take a beating on it.


yes thanks for your experience and opinion but just to keep things real i bolded part of your quote that i have to share my own experience...i lost significant bodyfat and weight AND gained strength while in that said caloric range whilst on test and deca at trt doses...

but either way i think we all have bass headin in the right direction at this point

----------


## flatscat

> The endo will tell you nothing you don't already know. Anavar is a lame drug in that it causes cramping, cholesterol problems, and possibly other nasty things. Perhaps there are some freaks that can tolerate a long cycle dose of 50mg/day, but I personally noticed the cramping even on 25mg/day in just 2 days, and they were bad cramps. A little di-potassium phosphate attenuated it, *but anavar is known to screw with electrolyte values*. I think deca is a far safer drug than anavar. 200mg/week may be too much deca. 100mg/week shouldn't give you much trouble and soothe your joints, but you may be asking for ED while the DECA is in your system. You were basically probably prescribed Arnold's TRT program. lol Test is all you need to hang onto muscle mass and gain nicely. It all comes down to caloric intake anyway. Even if you are on all this stuff and your calories are near 2-3k (low) you are still going to get no real net benefit from the extras. I doubt at 50 you are trying to become Mr. Universe. Props on finding a cool doc though. I keep my estrogen at 30 and have no problems. I run 125mg/4-5 days and have no need for an anti-e. Don't freak out, just realize that anavar has nasty sides and 50mg is what the guys on this forum take for 8 weeks to get big alone with everything else. Their lipids take a beating on it.


Can you provide documentation on this statement please?

Thanks

----------


## BeastintheSheets

I'm just going off of the experience of several forum posters I've read off the net. I'd have to google them, but they ran anavar cycles and their electrolyte levels were out of range after their var cycles. Obviously it makes people cramp up, which means it is screwing with electrolyte levels. Deca will make you strong as hell, but as far as gaining big size goes, it still requires a lot more than just a 2k calorie diet lol unless you are using abusive amounts of cattle bulkers or grams of everything a week. I could lose bodyfat and gain strength on Jenny Craig, so I was not referring to that. Though I put something like 75 lbs on my bench press in 1 wkout on deca. lol

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## The Toad

> I'm just going off of the experience of several forum posters I've read off the net. I'd have to google them, but they ran anavar cycles and their electrolyte levels were out of range after their var cycles. Obviously it makes people cramp up, which means it is screwing with electrolyte levels. Deca will make you strong as hell, but as far as gaining big size goes, it still requires a lot more than just a 2k calorie diet lol unless you are using abusive amounts of cattle bulkers or grams of everything a week. I could lose bodyfat and gain strength on Jenny Craig, so I was not referring to that. *Though I put something like 75 lbs on my bench press in 1 wkout on deca.* lol


Your kiddin I hope

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## zaggahamma

he really must b a beast

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## BJJ

> The endo will tell you nothing you don't already know. Anavar is a lame drug in that it causes cramping, cholesterol problems, and possibly other nasty things. Perhaps there are some freaks that can tolerate a long cycle dose of 50mg/day, but I personally noticed the cramping even on 25mg/day in just 2 days, and they were bad cramps. A little di-potassium phosphate attenuated it, but anavar is known to screw with electrolyte values. *I think deca is a far safer drug than anavar*. 200mg/week may be too much deca. 100mg/week shouldn't give you much trouble and soothe your joints, but you may be asking for ED while the DECA is in your system. You were basically probably prescribed Arnold's TRT program. lol Test is all you need to hang onto muscle mass and gain nicely. It all comes down to caloric intake anyway. Even if you are on all this stuff and your calories are near 2-3k (low) you are still going to get no real net benefit from the extras. I doubt at 50 you are trying to become Mr. Universe. Props on finding a cool doc though. I keep my estrogen at 30 and have no problems. I run 125mg/4-5 days and have no need for an anti-e. Don't freak out, just realize that anavar has nasty sides and 50mg is what the guys on this forum take for 8 weeks to get big alone with everything else. Their lipids take a beating on it.


Coul you post a study on that assumption?

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## BeastintheSheets

> Coul you post a study on that assumption?


I'm going by personal experience. I don't need a study to verify my personal experience. The fact that your lipids are completely screwed after 4-8 weeks of anavar should be all you need to know and the fact that most people cramp up like hell on it without extra potassium shows that it screws with electrolytes. And Deca isn't methylated. Anavar is much harder on the liver by virtue of the double pass. I would think this would be enough common sense to decide that deca is safer than anavar, but if you want a statement from the president of the US confirming this I don't have one. The studies as you and me both know are limited, and there exist next to none comparing the safety of multiple steroids in one study. lol Some people can tolerate it better than others I'm sure but deca is about as safe as it gets IMO next to test.

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## bass

Not sure what caused it, but i am betting that anavar had allot to do with it, my HDL went from 56 to 35! but i will do another check this Sunday after fasting and see where my cholesterol levels are!

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## BJJ

> *I'm going by personal experience. I don't need a study to verify my personal experience*. The fact that your lipids are completely screwed after 4-8 weeks of anavar should be all you need to know and the fact that most people cramp up like hell on it without extra potassium shows that it screws with electrolytes. And Deca isn't methylated. Anavar is much harder on the liver by virtue of the double pass. I would think this would be enough common sense to decide that deca is safer than anavar, but if you want a statement from the president of the US confirming this I don't have one. *The studies as you and me both know are limited*, and there exist next to none comparing the safety of multiple steroids in one study. lol Some people can tolerate it better than others I'm sure but deca is about as safe as it gets IMO next to test.


Exactly, it was just your personal experience because from the way you wrote regarding the matter it seemed you were speaking about an objective truth.
I am glad you stated now it was only a subjective one.

Regarding the studies, there are hundreds about Oxandrolone and its therapeutic use.

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## BeastintheSheets

BJJ, it was far from subjective. Just because I experienced it and it was not written up in a study doesn't mean it is subjective. Just because God didn't write it down in the holy book doesn't mean it's subjective. I did labs and my electrolytes were out of range. lol Deca doesn't aromatize either.

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## BJJ

> BJJ, it was far from subjective. Just because I experienced it and it was not written up in a study doesn't mean it is subjective. *you just contradicted yourself. if you experience it, it is subjective indeed. what nationality are you from?* Just because God didn't write it down in the holy book doesn't mean it's subjective. I did labs and my electrolytes were out of range. lol Deca doesn't aromatize either.


And regarding God, I would advise you to get another example.

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## bass

UPDATE:

saw the endo today, she was great! she’s not all for TRT based on my previous blood work but not against it either! she did not like the stacked compounds as a therapy because they have far greater bad side effects than good, i agree with here! she is not apposed to staying on test only but she also doesn't understand why the anastrozole was prescribed! she said to get off anastrozole and we'll do a blood work in 4 weeks to see where my levels are. she was extremely against anastrozole for just in case purposes! she said if i keep my test levels to a normal range then i don't need to take anastrozole. among the blood test she ordered the following,

CBC with Defferential/Platelets
Comp Metabolic Pannel
Estradiol
Luteinizing Hormone (LH) S
Lipid Panel
Prolactin
PSA
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum
Thyroxine (T4) Free, Direct S
TSH
Total and Free Testosterone by Equilibrium Dialysis

This test will be done on or after April second!

i'll keep you posted!

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## zaggahamma

> UPDATE:
> 
> saw the endo today, she was great! she’s not all for TRT based on my previous blood work but not against it either! she did not like the stacked compounds as a therapy because they have far greater bad side effects than good, i agree with here! she is not apposed to staying on test only but she also doesn't understand why the anastrozole was prescribed! she said to get off anastrozole and we'll do a blood work in 4 weeks to see where my levels are. she was extremely against anastrozole for just in case purposes! she said if i keep my test levels to a normal range then i don't need to take anastrozole. among the blood test she ordered the following,
> 
> CBC with Defferential/Platelets
> Comp Metabolic Pannel
> Estradiol
> Luteinizing Hormone (LH) S
> Lipid Panel
> ...


my guess is the LH is gonna be low...

on a more serious note...i doubt youre gonna like what she wants to dose you at instead of what the clinic is doing for you...you just usin her for the bloodwork anyway right?

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## bass

Yup!

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## bass

not sure if this is related to TRT, i haven't had a cold-sore/blister in 20 years, and now i have on on my lower lip!

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## zaggahamma

> not sure if this is related to TRT, i haven't had a cold-sore/blister in 20 years, and now i have on on my lower lip!


did u mean to post this  :Smilie:

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## bass

yes just curious to know if testosterone had anything to do with it!

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## flatscat

come on Bass, you know better. stress can and most oftern will cause it after you have been infected with the virus.

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## bass

you're right, it just i haven't had it in the last 20 years!

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## Karo

> not sure if this is related to TRT, i haven't had a cold-sore/blister in 20 years, and now i have on on my lower lip!


This post (also entire thread) reminds me of a friend of mine that did a cycle 3 years ago. He talked to me at great length before he started his cycle and I unknowingly became his mentor/counselor for all things relating to aas. During his cycle the guy called me 3 times a day to ask every question imaginable. "does test make your toenails grow faster?" "i'm noticing twice as much earwax as normal, is this due to test? should I lower my dose?" and on and on and on and on. I was thrilled when he finally decided to end his cycle prematurely because he got a pimple on his chest. However it didnt stop there. After his cycle was over it got worst. Every time the guy got a ache, pain or farted more than once he would call me and ask "is this because of the cycle I did?" These every-day calls went on for months!!! Every time he caught a cold, got constipated, sneezed more than twice a day i'd get a call.
He ran the cycle 3 YEARS AGO and he just called me yesterday to tell me that he tore a tendon in his knee and to ask me if "its due to the fact that his quads grew faster than his tendons while he was on his cycle?"

My point is that we are all guilty of over-analyzing ourselves to come extent. It's important to realize that "shit happens" and that aas isn't the culprit for everything.

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## bass

> This post (also entire thread) reminds me of a friend of mine that did a cycle 3 years ago. He talked to me at great length before he started his cycle and I unknowingly became his mentor/counselor for all things relating to aas. During his cycle the guy called me 3 times a day to ask every question imaginable. "does test make your toenails grow faster?" "i'm noticing twice as much earwax as normal, is this due to test? should I lower my dose?" and on and on and on and on. I was thrilled when he finally decided to end his cycle prematurely because he got a pimple on his chest. However it didnt stop there. After his cycle was over it got worst. Every time the guy got a ache, pain or farted more than once he would call me and ask "is this because of the cycle I did?" These every-day calls went on for months!!! Every time he caught a cold, got constipated, sneezed more than twice a day i'd get a call.
> He ran the cycle 3 YEARS AGO and he just called me yesterday to tell me that he tore a tendon in his knee and to ask me if "its due to the fact that his quads grew faster than his tendons while he was on his cycle?"
> 
> My point is that we are all guilty of over-analyzing ourselves to come extent. It's important to realize that "shit happens" and that aas isn't the culprit for everything.


you are probably right, i do tend over analyze things a bit! but i like to be safe than sorry, after all, these hormones are very powerful! thanks for your post, it actually is helpful!

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## bass

feeling like crap lately, and to make things worse my heart is skipping a beat every minute or so for about 30 minute then it goes away, then it come back 4-6 times a day! also since i stopped Anastrozole, deca , var and vitamin B12 i been feeling week, lack of motivation, lost strength and gain some fat! these symptoms started about 10 ago or so! did blood work today regarding my heart skipping a beat, then next week i am doing blood work ordered by my endo regarding TRT.

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## JohnnyVegas

TRT is going to put you in the grave.  :Smilie:

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## zaggahamma

this honestly is the FIRST thread i've read with such a nature not to say these feelings arent legit or scary, etc. It may very well be a side effect and needs to be looked at...i know at first bass, you had problems and we thought maybe you started too many things at once to point out what individual compound might be a culprit then u took one or two away and you started to feel better? but then recently maybe even worse...hope you can get it worked out man

j

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## bass

thanks JP, i been reading allot about the condition PVC and lots of people have it, most all are benign and i am hoping mine is too. i had them before but once in a year or two, but now its everyday all day long for the last week or so! next week blood work will reveal more information...

BTW, i don't mind keeping you guys updated, but if you think this thread lost its use I'll be happy to end it.

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## swllce

To ,OP
By all means keep posting, this tread belongs here.
Some of us fellow members and mongers are considering trt and perhaps using a clinic.
Sorry to hear about some of your pitfalls.I read through your tread ,and i will think twice about what my clinic tries to push.
At the aa clinic you deal mostly with an consultant who makes his money on commisions ,not a doctor.
Anybody can be smart after the facts.
I come here to lean from others.
Good luck Bass.

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## bass

thanks Vick, this is why i am constantly updating, is to be advised and give the opportunity to others to learn from my experience. nothing more.

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## bass

my blood work came back, sodium, potassium, chloride, carbon dioxide and calcium are all in range, but my creatinine and eGFR are worse, creatinine is 1.51 and eGFR is 49. i need your opinion on this, i know i have more muscle now and expected for creatinine to go up a little, but not to 1.51! also didn't expect eGFR to go down that much! should i stop TRT and do PCT? i have an appointment with my endo in about 2 weeks, should i wait to see the endo first? i am at a lose!

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## zaggahamma

> my blood work came back, sodium, potassium, chloride, carbon dioxide and calcium are all in range, but my creatinine and eGFR are worse, creatinine is 1.51 and eGFR is 49. i need your opinion on this, i know i have more muscle now and expected for creatinine to go up a little, but not to 1.51! also didn't expect eGFR to go down that much! should i stop TRT and do PCT? i have an appointment with my endo in about 2 weeks, should i wait to see the endo first? i am at a lose!


 Sorry bass what are those measures for bro, kidney?

bump

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## bass

yes, kidney.

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## APIs

> my blood work came back, sodium, potassium, chloride, carbon dioxide and calcium are all in range, but my creatinine and eGFR are worse, creatinine is 1.51 and eGFR is 49. i need your opinion on this, i know i have more muscle now and expected for creatinine to go up a little, but not to 1.51! also didn't expect eGFR to go down that much! should i stop TRT and do PCT? i have an appointment with my endo in about 2 weeks, should i wait to see the endo first? i am at a lose!


Mine just came back & my Creatine was at 1.42 & eGFR at 54. My Dr. is not concerned. My Creatine always runs high and so do most people who lift & consume a lot of protein. You're not supplementing with Creatine Anhydrous correct? This would be a definite no-no...

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## bass

thanks API, no i don't take creatine. how old are you?

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## prop402

LOL of course those levels are going to be higher if you are working out and have anabolic hormones in your body in higher than normal amounts. Not like your kidneys are failing. What is your current protocol? I'll bet your heart is acting up from the sympathetic stress from all of this shit you are taking. If you did 100mg a week you wouldn't have these problems, bro. Anyone's heart will skip beats if you stress them enough be it chemically or physically.

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## bass

> LOL of course those levels are going to be higher if you are working out and have anabolic hormones in your body in higher than normal amounts. Not like your kidneys are failing. What is your current protocol? I'll bet your heart is acting up from the sympathetic stress from all of this shit you are taking. If you did 100mg a week you wouldn't have these problems, bro. Anyone's heart will skip beats if you stress them enough be it chemically or physically.


Thanks Prop, i am on 200mgs test cyp each week! been off AI for about 5 weeks but will be going back on it soon after i see the blood work results i did last week.

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## prop402

The only way to help the heart problem is to lower the dose. Do 125mg every 5 days and monitor e2. Maybe add in arimidex at like .25mg every third day if that, maybe every fourth - just go by morning erections and whatnot and taper the dose as needed.

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## bass

> The only way to help the heart problem is to lower the dose. Do 125mg every 5 days and monitor e2. Maybe add in arimidex at like .25mg every third day if that, maybe every fourth - just go by morning erections and whatnot and taper the dose as needed.


do you think elevated estrogen has anything to do with the heart skipping a beat?

----------


## bass

here is my latest blood work. as you can see my estrogen is through the roof! maybe this is why my heart is acting up! kidneys have improved only one week from previous test! 

Another test was done is the Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum---21.7 Range is 14.5-48.4

here is the rest of the test. please give me your opinion!

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## zaggahamma

bring your e2 down and donate blood

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## bass

thanks JP, besides e2 what do you think about the rest, is it normal to have some of the hormones go out of range due to TRT and nothing to worry about?

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## zaggahamma

> thanks JP, besides e2 what do you think about the rest, is it normal to have some of the hormones go out of range due to TRT and nothing to worry about?


the only thing i saw was the rbc/hema levels that seem to come down after donating blood and the estradiol which i mentioned in my short and sweet post
only other was the prolactin was high(i didnt see that when i glanced before, sorry)...i'll have to bump for an answer on that one

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## Forthelooks

Wow, Thats awesome... Now go start a log so we can follow it :-)

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## zaggahamma

> Wow, Thats awesome... Now go start a log so we can follow it :-)


are all your 37 posts as ridiculous as this one and your avy?

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## bass

> are all your 37 posts as ridiculous as this one and your avy?


lol.....

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## johnwynnejr

> All that from a clinic or a endo?


FYI: You can definitely get this from a clinic my friend. (Visit a clinic and they'll have an in-network pharmacy for you right across the street to cash that awesome script in.)

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## lifeforce0019

Hello Bass. Did you get feedback from your endo or clinic doc? How you doing man?

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## bass

> Hello Bass. Did you get feedback from your endo or clinic doc? How you doing man?


Thanks for asking! no feed back from the stupid endo, she screwed things up for me by telling me to stop taking AI, it was very stupid of me to listen to her. she got my last blood work results posted above and she has not talked to me as of yet! what does that tell you?! she sucks and don't give a shit about my health. i will stick with the clinic for now, they seem to know allot more than the endos! i am doing much better since i donated/disposed of one pint of blood, my blood looked like mud and it was screwing me up. also back on anastrozole. i did blood work yesterday and will post the results as soon as i get them!

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## bass

UPDATE:

the clinic suggested to drop the dose of test to 160 mgs per week to get me back in range, so i did 160 mgs today and still on 1/2 mg anastrozole ed, then will adjust as necessary. still waiting for Friday's blood work results and will post them when i get them.

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## bass

here is my latest blood work, all looks good, even my cholesterol! the clinic said to back off the Anastrozole on Tuesday and Thursday, so only 5 days a week at 1/2 mg.

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## zaggahamma

looks good bass!!!!!!!

but OH SHIT!!!!!!!! WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO ABOUT THE CARBON DIOXIDE!!!!!?????????????????????????

lol...love bustin on your big as$!

no testosterone test?????

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## bass

i am learning not to get over concerned about levels being a little off, its still new to me but slowly getting used to it, and i don't mind you busting on me, LOL! no testosterone on this one, its only been about 2 weeks apart from my last test, of course my next one will include test to see where my levels are with my new dose of 160 mgs per week. also will be starting on hCG soon, i like to get my nuts back, just don't like the idea of them melting away!

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## bass

UPDATE:

Good new regarding my kidneys! went to a specialist yesterday and he reviewed all my blood work in the past 3 years or so, and he said he is not concerned with my levels, he looked at me and asked if i was always this muscular, then said being muscular will raise your creatinine levels and decrease GFR levels, nothing to be alarmed about. they did a urine test in the office and it was clean from protein and blood. basically he said my kidneys have not lost functionality in the last three years which indicated i have no kidney disease! and due to kidney stones in the past have damage my kidneys some and that also adds to the high levels. basically my kidneys are at 80% now, and he said that people can live just fine with 20% kidney function.

Confession!
OK, i have to admit now i realize that i do have some kind of phobia, a fear of causing damage to my organs, i realized that as i left the docs office and felt like a million dollar man, i felt strong and very healthy. i need to get my fears under control so not to interfere with my goals!

also went to a cardiologist for my heart skipping beats, they did an EKG and some physical and things were good according to them, but to be sure they want to to an echo-cardiogram and put a 24 hour holter on me in two weeks, once that is done and if things are good, them i may thing to do a blast! anyway, i am thankful that my kidneys are well.

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## APIs

> he looked at me and asked if i was always this muscular, then said being muscular will raise your creatinine levels


Told ya so! :Hmmmm:

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## bass

you sure did! live and learn!

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