# FITNESS and NUTRITION FORUM > WORKOUT AND TRAINING >  Drop setting: by marcus300

## marcus300

Drop set training is a training method what I would consider a favourite of mine, when I am on cycle and i'm after building muscle tissue I always incorporate this intense training technique because it compliments how my body builds muscle. Short heavy intense workouts have always been how my body responded the best in regards to building tissue, ive tried many different routines which have resulted in good gains and I am not in no way advicing against any other training method here I am just explaining one method ive had great success with and would class my no1 for building a big dense frame. Again like most things in bodybuilding there are many variations to any method but here I will talk about the basic idea around dropsets.

Drop set training is a method of training what takes you to failure and beyond, you simply perform a certain exercise until muscle failure then drop some weight off the bar or reduce the dumbbells and continue until you reach muscular failure again,then reduce the poundage one more time and rep till failure once more.This kind of training recruits and breaks down many muscle fibres and creates hypertrophy in a very short period of time, each time you dropset the poundage you recruit more fibres and create more damage, if your incorporating 2 drop sets after your first set your putting fibres under pressure what would normally be dormant these stubborn fibres will be stimulated and be forced to grow , the end result is more damage fibres to repair and to grow bigger,this kind of intense training builds thick dense muscle bellies and creates over all size and mass.

One of the most important things you need to do with this kind of training is make sure your fully warmed up, you can cause injury easily so before any major drop setting WARM UP. 2 warm up sets to get the blood flowing should be adequate then you need to hit your maximum weight what would give you a rep range of 8-10, 10 being complete failure not one further rep can be completed, then you would dropset the weight by around 20% and rep again to complete failure, then take another 20% off and rep to failure. That is one working set and then you would recover and repeat,you would do two working sets to complete that particular exercise.

Lets throw in an example with poundage, 
this is one working set for seated shoulder press:
2 warm up sets
220lbs rep 8-10- complete failure,drop set by 20% (44lb)
176lbs rep till complete failure drop set by 44lb
132lbs rep till complete failure
rest,recover and repeat without the warm up sets
shoulder press completed

When complete failure as set in you move onto drop sets without any rest but complete failure means not one further rep can be achieved even if your life depended on it. By continuously stripping the weight you recruit more and more fibres what you wouldn't of used which will result in new growth. 

That's just one basic example but there are many variations, you can strip the poundage/weight by 40-50% each drop set and increase the rep range if you respond to volume training better or you can reduce the drop set weight and just go with 10% drops but do 3 drops instead of 2, there are many ways to incorporate drop sets its all about finding out which one you respond best to and which one recruits the more fibres in the shortest possible time. I normally would do 2 forced reps at the end of each drop sets especially when I am on cycle.

Swapping and changing training methods and routines around will help you create new growth, next time your looking for a change incorporate this method and see how you react, if implemented correctly this can springboard you into new growth. Short intense workouts are better for your C.N.S and recovery so always aim to be in the gym for the shortest possible time otherwise it can be counterproductive.

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## HawaiianPride.

This is also great for guys that are depleted and trying to maintain as much muscle mass as possible before shows or whatever your goals are.

Big fan of drop sets. I suggest those of you looking to implement a different style after your next deload try this.

Good read.

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## marcus300

> This is also great for guys that are depleted and trying to maintain as much muscle mass as possible before shows or whatever your goals are.
> 
> Big fan of drop sets. I suggest those of you looking to implement a different style after your next deload try this.
> 
> Good read.


I found it to intense to use when depleted, unless your going with big % drop sets and going for volume.

What training style do you use to build HP?

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## HawaiianPride.

Volume would make more sense^

I like to split it up. 2 days dedicated to power - 5x5 upper/lower, the next 2 days dedicated to hypertrophy in the 8-10 rep range which would include negatives/drops/supersets. 

Deloads rarely come with this style due to the fact my body will usually take a very long time to adapt to this method since it's so complex, or more so then your conventional routine.

Each body part gets trained twice per week. I'm a huge advocate of taxing the fibers twice. I found this to be the optimal route for muscle growth..

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## gbrice75

For better or worse, it's a method I learned when I first started lifting, although it probably should be reserved for seasoned lifters. In either case, it's always been a favorite of mine. My biceps NEVER get sore, but when I incorporate drop sets into my bicep workout, DOMS is inevitable every time!

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## HawaiianPride.

I have that same problem... if I would even call it a problem lol.

Biceps never get sore.

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## marcus300

> For better or worse, it's a method I learned when I first started lifting, although it probably should be reserved for seasoned lifters. In either case, it's always been a favorite of mine. My biceps NEVER get sore, but when I incorporate drop sets into my bicep workout, DOMS is inevitable every time!


Ive incorporate various training technique and I do like to swap them around but your correct DOMS does seem to be a regular occurrence of drop setting.

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## tembe

> Ive incorporate various training technique and I do like to swap them around but your correct DOMS does seem to be a regular occurrence of drop setting.



SO basically how long would you run DROP SET training for Marcus?

Also how many sets and exercises would you be aiming to hit then for chest for example using drop sets?

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## gbrice75

> Ive incorporate various training technique and I do like to swap them around but your correct DOMS does seem to be a regular occurrence of drop setting.


Marcus, do you use the rest-pause technique at all? I'm curious to know how it holds up.

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## HawaiianPride.

RP is very effective.

Experimented with it a little bit.

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## htown21

tried it before too, works great.

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## marcus300

> SO basically how long would you run DROP SET training for Marcus?
> 
> Also how many sets and exercises would you be aiming to hit then for chest for example using drop sets?


I would usually run for around 3 months after that I would normally get burnt out but that would depend on how intense aI run the drop sets.

I would normally only do 2 working sets per excercise, each working set would have 2 or even 3 dropsets built within it, from the example ive posted which is a basic dropset for chest you would do 3 chest excercises, incline,flat and fly - 2 working sets each excercise. Remember when you start your working sets after you have warmed up you go all out like your life depended on it.

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## marcus300

> Marcus, do you use the rest-pause technique at all? I'm curious to know how it holds up.


Of course, ive used them in the past and to this day. I always try and swap and change my workout program around. The RP protocol again builds some dense looking muscle which I like  :Smilie:  

I think one of the things we all must do is swap and change things around every now and again so we dont go stale, every technique as its place for building/shaping/pumping

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## Hsheer

I'm sorry i didn't understand something. Let’s say for example i want to use this technique in a chest workout. And my workout consists of 4 exercises. I'll use the drop set technique in all of the exercises or only chest press and complete my exercise normally?

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## gbrice75

I'll leave it up to the pro's to give a definitive answer, but what I *believe* to be the case is that you would not be doing 4 exercises during a workout where you intend to use drop sets. In other words, if you typically do 4 exercises, 3 sets each, that's a total of 12 sets for that bodypart. Once you incorporate drop sets, since each drop is still part of the same working set, you would most definitely overtrain that muscle group if you tried drop setting for 12 sets - that would technically be like doing 36 sets!

Again, Marcus, HP - correct me if i'm wrong, but when I use drop sets I stick to the 'meat and potatoes' exercises.

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## BJJ

Could not agree more.

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## stevey_6t9

> I'll leave it up to the pro's to give a definitive answer, but what I *believe* to be the case is that you would not be doing 4 exercises during a workout where you intend to use drop sets. In other words, if you typically do 4 exercises, 3 sets each, that's a total of 12 sets for that bodypart. Once you incorporate drop sets, since each drop is still part of the same working set, you would most definitely overtrain that muscle group if you tried drop setting for 12 sets - that would technically be like doing 36 sets!
> 
> Again, Marcus, HP - correct me if i'm wrong, but when I use drop sets I stick to the 'meat and potatoes' exercises.


yeah i agree.

i personally believe drop sets are your proverbial ace card and should be used sparingly. yes they are great but they do tax you alot and doing alot of them may lead to overtraining.

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## mastablasta7

Thank you so much marcus I'm glad someone else does drop sets. I do something very similiar to this except i start at my 3rep max then drop down about 20% then another 20% for the last 2 sets i do about 5-6reps(or failure). My question is how long do you rest? I usually rest under around 1 minute or less. Also I do 3 drop sets in all and after my first full drop set is complete i decrease the weight by about 20pounds and repeat.

Example:
Set 1 - 275x3, 225x6, 185x6

Set 2 - 255x4, 205x6, 165x6

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## Dukkit

Ive been drop setting for sometime. Def for Bi's and Tri's. 

I recommend

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## marcus300

> Thank you so much marcus I'm glad someone else does drop sets. I do something very similiar to this except i start at my 3rep max then drop down about 20% then another 20% for the last 2 sets i do about 5-6reps(or failure). My question is how long do you rest? I usually rest under around 1 minute or less. Also I do 3 drop sets in all and after my first full drop set is complete i decrease the weight by about 20pounds and repeat.
> 
> Example:
> Set 1 - 275x3, 225x6, 185x6
> 
> Set 2 - 255x4, 205x6, 165x6


I only rest the amount of time it takes me to strip the bar or change the dumbells, no rest for me unless ive dropped my reps down and I'm doing some serious weight then I would take 10-15 seconds.

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## mastablasta7

Ok i see that's my plan. I did drop sets for the first time yesterday and it was one of the most intense workouts I've ever had. I havent actually tried my new workout yet but i set it up based on your 20% weight drop suggestion. I'm going for share mass/strength so i try to keep the reps low. 

When you do heavy weight drop sets do you start at the same weight for all 2-3sets? Or would you start out at a lower weight for the next set?

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## marcus300

> Ok i see that's my plan. I did drop sets for the first time yesterday and it was one of the most intense workouts I've ever had. I havent actually tried my new workout yet but i set it up based on your 20% weight drop suggestion. I'm going for share mass/strength so i try to keep the reps low. 
> 
> When you do heavy weight drop sets do you start at the same weight for all 2-3sets? Or would you start out at a lower weight for the next set?


Thats great sounds like you had a good workout, pains good lol

yes I normally stay at the same weight but depending what excercise I am doing sometimes I may lose a rep or two on the following set. Nothing is set in stone with this kind of training so just go with how your feeling and push all the time for your maximum and recruit as many fibres as possible

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## Swifto

Do you employ static pauses Marcus?

I can imagine thats pretty hard after a drop set. I've got chest tomorrow and will be drop setting and RP! 

If you dont ache the 24-48hrs after, you havent done enough IMO. Thats what I live by.

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## marcus300

> Do you employ static pauses Marcus?
> 
> I can imagine thats pretty hard after a drop set. I've got chest tomorrow and will be drop setting and RP! 
> 
> If you dont ache the 24-48hrs after, you havent done enough IMO. Thats what I live by.


No I don't use them when ive been drop setting.

The pain is nice from DS :Smilie:  

For chest I keep it simple incline,flat and flyes all drop set's

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## mastablasta7

> Thats great sounds like you had a good workout, pains good lol
> 
> yes I normally stay at the same weight but depending what excercise I am doing sometimes I may lose a rep or two on the following set. Nothing is set in stone with this kind of training so just go with how your feeling and push all the time for your maximum and recruit as many fibres as possible


Yes the pain is awsome. Drop sets really get you burning better then any other workout and i love it!! Also if i tried a second set starting at my 3 rep max i may only get 2 reps or even 1 so i usually lower the weight just a little so i can get in more reps. I guess ill just have to experiment and see what works.

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## HawaiianPride.

Keep in mind DOMS is not always a good indicator of adequate microtrauma.

I've never toyed with static contractions. I never saw a reason to include them in my regimen. I may have to experiment with them soon though..

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## UberSteroids

Hey guys,

If one exercise ex. Barbell curls are performed with, say 135x4 to failure, then another set of 135x3 to failure +2 forced +2 negatives. 

Obviously if done correctly, this would give a really good muscle growth stimulation. Now, if I decided to do a drop set instead of the second set that I did perform (135x3 failure, 2 forced +negatives), how would the drop set give more muscle stimulation? Does it?

More weight - more intensity - more muscle stimulation

If the failiure was reached with a certain weight, why would one drop the weight and do another set instead of trying to do another one with the same or heavier weight as the last set?

I am just trying to understand it... that's all.

Thanks a lot!

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## marcus300

> Hey guys,
> 
> If one exercise ex. Barbell curls are performed with, say 135x4 to failure, then another set of 135x3 to failure +2 forced +2 negatives. 
> 
> Obviously if done correctly, this would give a really good muscle growth stimulation. Now, if I decided to do a drop set instead of the second set that I did perform (135x3 failure, 2 forced +negatives), how would the drop set give more muscle stimulation? Does it?
> 
> More weight - more intensity - more muscle stimulation
> 
> If the failiure was reached with a certain weight, why would one drop the weight and do another set instead of trying to do another one with the same or heavier weight as the last set?
> ...


If you was going to drop set your barbell curls with forced and negs you would perform as many reps as you can with your starting weight then 2 forced + negs then drop the weight around 20% and rep again up until muscular failure then again 2 forced 2 negs and drop set by 20% again and repeat.

If you have come to complete failure on your first set it would be impossible to compete another rep because your at failure so that's why your drop the weight and start again without rest, if you don't want to drop the weight you will have to wait 10-15 seconds to recover and rep again with the same weight which would be a rest pause not a drop set.

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## UberSteroids

So different amount of weight recruits/stimulates different muscle fibers or more muscle fibers?

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## marcus300

> So different amount of weight recruits/stimulates different muscle fibers or more muscle fibers?


Yes the more stubborn fibres. When you have reached failure in your straight set, you have reached muscular failure with that weight, once you start stripping the weight and continue to rep you recruit the more stubborn reserved muscle fibres what you would not normally use in a straight set

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## MBMETC

LOVE THE DROP SETS BE IT TRIPLE DROP OR DOUBLE DROP GREAT STUFF,
LOVE TURNING GUYS ON TO THIS AND WATCH THEM TRY TO USE THEIR ARMS THE NEXT DAY...LOL :1laugh:

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## Swifto

Just trained chest drop setted every exercise (3).

Incline bench (smith)
Hammer flat
Fly's
*Extreme stretch

Was beautiful...

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## marcus300

> Just trained chest drop setted every exercise (3).
> 
> Incline bench (smith)
> Hammer flat
> Fly's
> *Extreme stretch
> 
> Was beautiful...


How long did it take Swifto and was the pump gooood

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## Swifto

25-30mins. I dont rest much mate because I cant do cardio due to my knee still.

Strength isnt back yet, but I didnt worry about the weight. 

Pump was good mate.

It took 40mins including stretching. Had a little chat with a few people too!

I prefer it like that, in.... OUT. Done.

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## marcus300

> 25-30mins. I dont rest much mate because I cant do cardio due to my knee still.
> 
> Strength isnt back yet, but I didnt worry about the weight. 
> 
> Pump was good mate.
> 
> It took 40mins including stretching. Had a little chat with a few people too!
> 
> I prefer it like that, in.... OUT. Done.


Sounds good, short heavy and intense.

Whats up tomorrow?

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## Reed

Love me some drop sets, along with rest/pause

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## Swifto

> Sounds good, short heavy and intense.
> 
> Whats up tomorrow?


I'm not sure, depends how I feel.

I may hit delts/triceps tomorrow if there not too sore from chest today. If not, its repeat cycle Mon.

Another thing I do often is to finish an exercise with 20-25 reps (light) after doing some heavy movements.

So if I dropped today for incline bench 3 times and then get spotted fro 2-3 forced I'd wait 3-5mins then push out 20-25 (failure) reps using a light weight to really fill the muscle with blood.

I do that on nearly everything, even after HIT/Volume (heavy final set). Usually resort back to one last high rep se. Get an awsome pump afterwards.

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## paddy155

One thing I have noticed with the way you guys train is that rest periods are very short in between sets. Why is this ?
Nice write up as always marcus.

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## mastablasta7

Drop sets are awsome. I believe they are the best way to gain mass/strength especialy while on cycle. If you really want the most mass and strength possible go really heavy weight and keep it to 3-4 reps then drop down 30% and do 5-6treps then drop another 20% and do 5-6reps. This is just the way i feel works best for gaining mass. I also like marcus' 8rep drop 20% method as well and was very effective for me yesterday doing shoulders. It was by far one of the best shoulder workouts i have ever done so i thank you for the layout and advice marcus. 

No matter how you guys do your drop sets make sure to keep your workouts under an hour or it can be very easy to overtrain. Also I'm currently on a mass cycle so I'm going balls to the wall and starting heavy weight on everything. These methods and workouts are extremely intense, perhaps the most intense form of training in my opinion so i would suggest not doing this during post cycle. It can be ok to do throughout an entire cycle while on gear but if you are trying this workout approach all natural I would suggest only doing it for an 8week period max.

Thats just my 2cents

Masta

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## marcus300

> One thing I have noticed with the way you guys train is that rest periods are very short in between sets. Why is this ?
> Nice write up as always marcus.


With dropsets your only dropping the weight each time you come to failure ypur not resting the muscle, once the weight is dropped you start repping again until failure, there is no resting, this recruits the stubborn muscles fibres what you dont normally use.

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## marcus300

bump

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## mastablasta7

> bump


Yes lets keep these bumped. Drop sets are by far the best workout you can do for size/mass. I've incorperated drop sets into all my workouts. Doing drop sets while on cycle is even better  :Wink/Grin:

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## carbman

bump this.. I'm trying to find out what weapons should I use when doing my first cycle about two months. I have trained with dc last 4 months or so definitely natural and have used a lot rest-pauses.. Right now i'm dieting and going to continue two weeks. Then I start to eat + calories and within a month take my gear (test + dbol ). I'm now in a good shape and going to grow a lot in next year and not worried about getting a bit more fat. Should I start my cycle with drop sets or may i destroy my neuromuscular system because i have used rest-pauses plus static holds etc. in the last couple of months so much.. What you clever people think?

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## DKbuilder

Would you guys recommend doing drop sets for every workout and every excercise? If not, which excercises should I implement them in? I haven't experimented that much with drop sets, I'll do it after my cut while where I am also going on my first cycle. That should give a nice amount of mass.

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## bruary17

If the muscle isn't sore, I didn't do my job. I live by that as well. Drop sets are a great way to recruit those stubborn hard to hit fibers. I'm also a huge fan of negatives. Example, bench press; I'd do a straight 10 rep set, just short of failure with 225, I'd then take a 2 min rest, put 250 on the bar and do 5 negs, each with a 5 second controlled drop and obv with a spotter. Talk about sore the next day.

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## cerealkiller326

*




 Originally Posted by carbman


I think it's up to you how you put these in practise.. You can drop 10% if you want more challenge although you will do less reps (3-4 or so) or you can drop even 40% and do more reps to give you some endurance if you like. I was interested of the possibility to start with heavy (about 3 reps) then drop at least 20% and do two sets and more reps. The latter is right i guess


*


> . 
> 
> Yes, it sounds wise that not to do these too often even if you have excessive testo in your body.. Everything stops working at some time so they could be a weapon to use sparingly. I would like to hear other ideas but it obvious that you cannot build up your working routine with only these..


This is what I do on certain body parts. I try to vary the reps and intensity, on some days I lift heavy before I actually perform drop sets, those days I just jump into the drop sets without the warm up. With out a doubt I do drop sets for each body parts except abs/legs.

To the second part, I am not a strong believer of just drop sets, super sets. Yes I'm retarded tired and fatigued after, but I usually do this after I lift heavy, almost to squeeze every ounce of energy out. Hence on certain days I do solely drop/super-sets and finish and other I finish with drop/super sets after heavy lifting. Just my take in the routine and it works for me and my clients.

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## cerealkiller326

*




 Originally Posted by carbman


I think it's up to you how you put these in practise.. You can drop 10% if you want more challenge although you will do less reps (3-4 or so) or you can drop even 40% and do more reps to give you some endurance if you like. I was interested of the possibility to start with heavy (about 3 reps) then drop at least 20% and do two sets and more reps. The latter is right i guess


*


> . 
> 
> Yes, it sounds wise that not to do these too often even if you have excessive testo in your body.. Everything stops working at some time so they could be a weapon to use sparingly. I would like to hear other ideas but it obvious that you cannot build up your working routine with only these..


This is what I do on certain body parts. I try to vary the reps and intensity, on some days I lift heavy before I actually perform drop sets, those days I just jump into the drop sets without the warm up. With out a doubt I do drop sets for each body parts except abs/legs.

To the second part, I am not a strong believer of just drop sets, super sets. Yes I'm retarded tired and fatigued after, but I usually do this after I lift heavy, almost to squeeze every ounce of energy out. Hence on certain days I do solely drop/super-sets and finish and other I finish with drop/super sets after heavy lifting. Just my take in the routine and it works for me and my clients.

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## tbody66

> Would you guys recommend doing drop sets for every workout and every excercise? If not, which excercises should I implement them in? I haven't experimented that much with drop sets, I'll do it after my cut while where I am also going on my first cycle. That should give a nice amount of mass.


Drop sets should definitely be used intermittently and not for all exercises. One bodypart every other week is a good guide, at least for me not on cycle, and I believe you should save them for the last exercise for that particular bodypart. For example on monday you could drop set your last bench press if it was your last mass building exercise for that bodypart, tuesday you could do the same with pull downs or rows, depending on which is your last set, thursday for leg extensions, friday you could do a drop super-set for triceps and biceps. I would then not recommend doing drop sets the next week. Just my opinion, you don't want to pull out the trick stuff on every play, then your opponent "your muscle" get's used to it and it doesn't work as well.

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## UberSteroids

Hey Marcus, 

I am a big fan of HIT style training so this should work great. I am going to give this a shot this Friday on my back/biceps day. I hope I can finally destroy my arms with this drop setting.

Just to calrify, 
2 warm up sets
3 work sets with 20% drop on each without any break.

After the rest... do the 3 work sets with 20% drop sets again?

So, pretty much two rounds of drop sets per exercise?

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## DKbuilder

> Drop sets should definitely be used intermittently and not for all exercises. One bodypart every other week is a good guide, at least for me not on cycle, and I believe you should save them for the last exercise for that particular bodypart. For example on monday you could drop set your last bench press if it was your last mass building exercise for that bodypart, tuesday you could do the same with pull downs or rows, depending on which is your last set, thursday for leg extensions, friday you could do a drop super-set for triceps and biceps. I would then not recommend doing drop sets the next week. Just my opinion, you don't want to pull out the trick stuff on every play, then your opponent "your muscle" get's used to it and it doesn't work as well.


It makes good sense not to overdo it.

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## carbman

> Hey Marcus, 
> 
> Just to calrify, 
> 2 warm up sets
> 3 work sets with 20% drop on each without any break.
> 
> After the rest... do the 3 work sets with 20% drop sets again?
> 
> So, pretty much two rounds of drop sets per exercise?


I think it's up to you how you put these in practise.. You can drop 10% if you want more challenge although you will do less reps (3-4 or so) or you can drop even 40% and do more reps to give you some endurance if you like. I was interested of the possibility to start with heavy (about 3 reps) then drop at least 20% and do two sets and more reps. The latter is right i guess. 

Yes, it sounds wise that not to do these too often even if you have excessive testo in your body.. Everything stops working at some time so they could be a weapon to use sparingly. I would like to hear other ideas but it obvious that you cannot build up your working routine with only these..

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## marcus300

> Hey Marcus, 
> 
> I am a big fan of HIT style training so this should work great. I am going to give this a shot this Friday on my back/biceps day. I hope I can finally destroy my arms with this drop setting.
> 
> Just to calrify, 
> 2 warm up sets
> 3 work sets with 20% drop on each without any break.
> 
> After the rest... do the 3 work sets with 20% drop sets again?
> ...


You can implement one working set or two, this will depend on how intense and what muscle group your working, if i feel its not at compelte muscle failure i will add a second working set to fully burn and force growth.

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## UberSteroids

> You can implement one working set or two, this will depend on how intense and what muscle group your working, if i feel its not at compelte muscle failure i will add a second working set to fully burn and force growth.


Got it.

I am going to do my arm workout in about two hours, when my workout buddy comes over. I am going to give this a shot.

The plan is:
Barbell curls (neutral grip)
115x Fail : 85x Fail : 65x Fail
105x Fail : 85x Fail : 65x Fail

EZ Bar curls (Close grip)
95x Fail : 65x Fail : Zottman Curls 30Lbs D-bells xFail
85x Fail : 65x Fail : Zottman Curls 30Lbs D-bells xFail

This should destroy my biceps... I do my arms every 7 days so it should be enough for recovery.

I'm pretty hyped up about this and will let you know how it went!

Thanks a lot, boss.

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## marcus300

Add into the working sets forced and negs especially on your last working set, this will destroy you biceps and force growth,

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## UberSteroids

> Add into the working sets forced and negs especially on your last working set, this will destroy you biceps and force growth,


Man... I did all this plus I followed the same sheme for back exercises. After the first rotation my arms felt like baloons filled with compressed air. 

That was a devastating workout. I did negatives and forced reps on each set. I didn't feel my arms by the end of 2nd rotation of the 2nd biceps exercises, not to mention when I was doing lat pull... I thought that I have a pair of ropes instead of my arms.

I am sticking to this from now on... mixed with my HIT split this will work wonders.

Thanks a lot, big guy!

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## Tony Stacks

I just started doing drop sets today with my arm routine. Time will tell when considering gains, but I def noticed a difference. Loved it!!!

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## btrizzyb

Great thread Marcus. I actually found this while reading one of your other threads "Tips to keeping Gains". I read in that thread that when off cycle it is best to dropset to keep workouts quick. My first question would be that I normally work on 2 muscles in 1 day example chest/biceps. I usually do 3 sets on 4 different exercises for each muscle. On dropsets would I only be focusing on 1 muscle a day instead of 2? I noticed that your talking about removing percentages, would it be ok just to look at it in terms of plates? For example I have chest and biceps tomorrow, but im guessing that it would be a chest only day if im doing dropsets? If im doing flat bench and 225 is where I can rep out to failure in about 10 reps, would it make sense to go 225, then drop to 205, then 185? Since those are easy and quick to make the changes in the bar in a hurry to keep moving? Now with that Flat bench, I should be doing 2 warmup sets? Should I just be doing lighter lifts like maybe 185 for like a set of 8 just to get warmed up, do another like that and then get into the drop set? If I read right in my example I would be doing those 2 warmup sets, then 225,205,185 then jumping back up to 225 and going down again? I dont think I could get anywhere near 10 reps again on 225 after the first time threw? Any rest between the first and second time threw, or do you just load the bar right back up and go at it again?

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## marcus300

> Great thread Marcus. I actually found this while reading one of your other threads "Tips to keeping Gains". I read in that thread that when off cycle it is best to dropset to keep workouts quick. My first question would be that I normally work on 2 muscles in 1 day example chest/biceps. I usually do 3 sets on 4 different exercises for each muscle. On dropsets would I only be focusing on 1 muscle a day instead of 2? I noticed that your talking about removing percentages, would it be ok just to look at it in terms of plates? For example I have chest and biceps tomorrow, but im guessing that it would be a chest only day if im doing dropsets? If im doing flat bench and 225 is where I can rep out to failure in about 10 reps, would it make sense to go 225, then drop to 205, then 185? Since those are easy and quick to make the changes in the bar in a hurry to keep moving? Now with that Flat bench, I should be doing 2 warmup sets? Should I just be doing lighter lifts like maybe 185 for like a set of 8 just to get warmed up, do another like that and then get into the drop set? If I read right in my example I would be doing those 2 warmup sets, then 225,205,185 then jumping back up to 225 and going down again? I dont think I could get anywhere near 10 reps again on 225 after the first time threw? Any rest between the first and second time threw, or do you just load the bar right back up and go at it again?


You can do a major and minor bodypart in the same workout using dropsets,
You don't go back up the weight after you finished your last dropset, that would be impossible because on each drop your going to failure,
You only rest in between the drops long enough to pick up lighter bells or some weight taken off the bar, as little rest as possible,

Drop sets 

This method needs a bit more thinking about but first lets explain what a drop set is. If we use DB curls for an example you would pick a weight again were you would be hitting around 3-4 reps at true positive failure and then get a set of lighter DB's and rep again for another couple of reps and then drop the weight again and curl another set of lighter bells for another 2-3 reps. You have to make sure you drop the weight enough to make sure you get around 2-3 reps out at failure but make sure you don't drop the weight to much, if your repping loads of reps out remember your trying to be hitting around the 8 rep range so when your doing your feeler sets its crucial to make the lighter db set just enough so you keep within the total rep range. Halfs/quarters or partials With partials you are doing a standard working set to which will involve you conducting a strict full range of motion to true positive failure, at this stage you would carry on doing half reps until its impossible to complete another half rep then do a quarter reps right down till you cant move the weight. A fine example would be DB side laterals were you would do strict reps till failure then carry on doing half reps so the DB's are only coming up half way then keep going till your hardly moving the weight from the side. There will be a bit of body assistance and sloppy form come into play towards the end but at this stage its fine just to get those deep muscle fibers working by going beyond failure. Extremely effective way to recruit those tough fibers we require with a constant tension approach. 


Read this thread and everything will be explained and more  :Smilie: 

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-l...ary%2A%2A.html

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## energizer bunny

nice bump, at the right time.............looks exactly what im after, been looking how to go too and beyond failure without a training partner.

cheers

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## -KJ-

Just a quick question:

I like training each muscle group every 5 days. I believe this is best for me or so far has been. 

Could one still incorporate drop sets to go beyond failure or is it too much with the higher frequency? 

Thanks in advance.

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## marcus300

> Just a quick question:
> 
> I like training each muscle group every 5 days. I believe this is best for me or so far has been. 
> 
> Could one still incorporate drop sets to go beyond failure or is it too much with the higher frequency? 
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Just do one body part every time you train and keep sessions down to around 45 mins. There's no high frequency going on with hit

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## kapper

Glad i came across this thread, thanks marcus.. Could you please tell me the best weekly split and exercises you would recommend for this program? Atm im doing 

Mon- back and shoulders hypertrophy
Tue- legs hypertrophy
Wed- chest and arms hypertrophy
Thurs- rest
Fri- upper body power
Sat- lower body power
Sun-rest

Im really enjoying, going to do this for another 8 to 14 weeks but after that looking to try this dropset routine. Cheers

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## -KJ-

> Just do one body part every time you train and keep sessions down to around 45 mins. There's no high frequency going on with hit


Cheers Marcus. 
Will do.

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## marcus300

> Glad i came across this thread, thanks marcus.. Could you please tell me the best weekly split and exercises you would recommend for this program? Atm im doing 
> 
> Mon- back and shoulders hypertrophy
> Tue- legs hypertrophy
> Wed- chest and arms hypertrophy
> Thurs- rest
> Fri- upper body power
> Sat- lower body power
> Sun-rest
> ...



Visit this thread http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-l...ary%2A%2A.html

This kind of training fits perfectly into HIT so more is not better and training the whole body once per week is good  :Wink:

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## Art Vandelay

NICE writeup Marcus. Thanks man

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## Art Vandelay

I'm gonna give shoulders a try... I've only ever dropped on chest

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## kapper

> Visit this thread http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-l...ary%2A%2A.html
> 
> This kind of training fits perfectly into HIT so more is not better and training the whole body once per week is good


Thanks marcus, ive started reading ur diary and all i can say is wow i wish i seen this earlier! Gona take a few days to read thru it but i will be defiantly soaking in all the training and motivational advice

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## marcus300

> Thanks marcus, ive started reading ur diary and all i can say is wow i wish i seen this earlier! Gona take a few days to read thru it but i will be defiantly soaking in all the training and motivational advice


It is long but its more or less all information you can use and learn from, you will also see members who have started this type of training and how much they have developed.

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## Art Vandelay

Marcus, what do you mean by "I normally would do 2 forced reps at the end of each drop set" Thanks

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## marcus300

> Marcus, what do you mean by "I normally would do 2 forced reps at the end of each drop set" Thanks


Can you tell me which post I mentioned this in

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## Art Vandelay

Of course. Your op. The end of the 6th paragraph.

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## marcus300

> Of course. Your op. The end of the 6th paragraph.


Its A variation of a drop set, nothing is really set in stone you can adapt and implement what works for you, for me personally I adore forced reps at the point of true positive failure it makes me grow so much and that's what I do and many should try it, but again it takes a lot of mental focus to do this right.

*Read this because this will give you great insight into how I train and how I go about every aspect of failure*

Rep range The ideal rep range for building size and stimulating hypertrophy is the 6 to 12 reps. Less than 6 reps will more or less increase strength and a degree of size, performing more than 12 reps will help build muscle endurance. Make sure that your reps fall within this range and your hitting true positive failure for the best chance of hypertrpohy. If your implementing one of the beyond failure methods such as forced & negs, rest pause or dropsetting you use a weight what is heavy enough to bring your positive failure at the low end of the rep range. An example for rest pause you use a weight what you will hit true positive failure at around the 4th rep then you would rest for around 10-15 seconds and do another couple of reps, then rest again for another 10-15 seconds and hit another 2 reps with the same weight. In total your doing 8 reps which is within range and your going to failure on each rest pause so you have a high chance of stimulating the right fibers to produce the best gains. As your rep range and strength increases towards a total of 12 reps you simple increase the weight being used so your constantly increasing intensity and overload, the two keys principles of any HIT programme. You use feeler sets to determine what weight you will be using on your working set, as you use different methods like dropsetting always makes sure you don't drop the weight to much so your not going over 12 reps in total. If you are you need to be using heavier weight on the drops so your rep range hits below the 12 reps in total. I always like to use around the 8 rep range in total and increase the reps upwards until I feel i can increase the weight so my rep range falls around the 8 rep range again. We are aiming for maximum muscle fiber recruitment hitting these rep ranges at failure will have the greatest potential for muscular growth. The above advice is for someone who is already advanced and is looking to build bigger thicker muscles, its not for someone who is building a base and foundation because these people can really benefit from using a lower rep range aswell as the above. 





Stimulating growth 

Remember going to true positive failure like I've describe previously hits the toughest muscle fibers what grow the biggest these are the fast twitch type 2b fibers, you hit these fibers and you will have the biggest chance of increasing in size. What we are aiming for is progression overload so you keep hitting the muscles with an increased weight so they need to change and adapt to the overload its being put under. This kind of continuous stress will have a reaction on the body and it will have no other alternative but to grow. We keep within the right rep range what stimulates the biggest growth and we continuously try and increase the intensity by increasing the reps then once the reps increase you increase the weight to bring the reps down within the correct range again. I can't stress enough about taking your muscle to true positive failure, this takes a lot of mental preparation. Before any muscle contraction occurs it originates from the brain sending signals to the nerves, the stronger the signal the more forceful the muscle contraction, in other words control your mind set pre working set and you will be in the best position to take your body to failure and beyond. I've commented many times how I go about doing my mental preparation but you master the mental side and you will see huge leaps in achieving your goals.Release the aggression by talking to your inner self and you will take your body to places its never been before. Stimulate growth by overloading your body to a state were its screaming for you to stop and no matter what you couldn't do one more rep even if your life depended on it, if you don't train in this fashion your not training hard enough. 





Advanced training techniques



Forced and negatives 

When your going to be implementing forced and negatives you need to be using a weight what your going to be hitting around the 3-4 rep range at true positive failure, then your spotter with help you with another 2 reps. I say 2 reps because its about the limit you can do once you have come to true positive failure and your partner is taking some of the weight off you, these forced reps will dig very deep into your muscle fiber recruitment. Once you have finished the forced reps the weight will be at the starting position and you start to complete negatives by lowering the weight very slowly, make sure you resist and fight the weight coming down and once at the bottom your partner will assist you to get the weight to the top of again and you will do another negative and you keep going until you cant do another negative, usually its around 2 negatives. Negatives done at this stage of a working set after positive muscle failure causes serious trauma to the muscle which will stimulate the release of growth factors. Your also 40% stronger on the eccentric part of the lift so once you hit failure in the lifting part of the exercise by yourself and adding forced with your partner the negatives will take you beyond and recruit further fibres like nothing I've experienced with any other training routine. Once this as been hit there is no need to do anything else because the damage has occurred and no more can be recruited only burn out and exhaustion. If we add the reps up you would be doing around 3-4 reps on the positive then 2 forced and then around 2 negative so in total your hitting around the 8 rep range. You have 3 strengths you have the positive, static and negative, the negative causes the most damage to the muscle and is the biggest cause of DOMS, you master negatives and you will see a huge improvement in muscle size and fullness.





Rest Pause 

Again use a weight what you will be hitting true positive failure around the 3-4 reps range, put the weight down and rest for around 10-15 seconds which should give you around another 2 reps, then repeat and rest again and hit another 2+ reps again. Your completing a set of around 8 reps than you would normally use but your rest a couple of times within the set for around 10-15 second so you recover just enough to complete another 2 reps each time. This will recruit those tough type 2b muscle fibers and if you use your feeler sets correctly you can really cause some serious damage to your muscle and create an extreme amount of over load your body isn't use to. I like the 8 rep total mark but this isn't set in stone, you may prefer 10 reps in total or even 6 but just try and makes ure your in the 6-12 rep range and work from that to increase the intensity and overload.





Drop sets 

This method needs a bit more thinking about but first lets explain what a drop set is. If we use DB curls for an example you would pick a weight again were you would be hitting around 3-4 reps at true positive failure and then get a set of lighter DB's and rep again for another couple of reps and then drop the weight again and curl another set of lighter bells for another 2-3 reps. You have to make sure you drop the weight enough to make sure you get around 2-3 reps out at failure but make sure you don't drop the weight to much, if your repping loads of reps out remember your trying to be hitting around the 8 rep range so when your doing your feeler sets its crucial to make the lighter db set just enough so you keep within the total rep range. Halfs/quarters or partials With partials you are doing a standard working set to which will involve you conducting a strict full range of motion to true positive failure, at this stage you would carry on doing half reps until its impossible to complete another half rep then do a quarter reps right down till you cant move the weight. A fine example would be DB side laterals were you would do strict reps till failure then carry on doing half reps so the DB's are only coming up half way then keep going till your hardly moving the weight from the side. There will be a bit of body assistance and sloppy form come into play towards the end but at this stage its fine just to get those deep muscle fibers working by going beyond failure. Extremely effective way to recruit those tough fibers we require with a constant tension approach. 





Hit Supersets 

Hit supersets entail you doing one exercise right after another with very little rest as in-between the two movements. With these types of supersets your still hitting the 6-12 rep range so your not doing anymore than 12 reps over two exercises, this is very important. Example you would go to true positive failure lets say on DB shoulder press and be at failure around the 5-6 rep then go straight into db side laterals for another 6 reps at the most which would be failure again. You have to make sure you use the right weight to hit the correct rep range so you don't go over the 12 rep ceiling otherwise you will trigger the muscle endurance and exhaustion and you wont tap into the tough fibers we require. Great examples is coupling compounds movements with isolation.Combination This protocol would consist of a combination of any of the above methods, you could use rest pause and on the second rest pause you may not be able to do anymore reps so you could go straight into a drop set to finish the working set of to failure and beyond. You could even use drop sets with partials on the last drop set to really increase the burn and intensity. The combination is endless, its how you feel to complete the workings set and what you need to do to make sure its a productive one. These are great for a back up plan if your working set starts to go wrong for any reason.





Rest 

Using the above protocols is extremely tasking on your body and CNS so you need to make sure the training session are short but intense enough to stimulate growth. You also need to make sure you rest enough and have a good solid diet to suit your requirements. There is one thing for sure its impossible to train like this correctly for weeks on end, no matter how anabolic you are your going to need to pull back on the above movements and decrease the intensity and let the body fully repair and heal. This doesn't mean you have to stop training in this style just take a pullback training routine for a few weeks and lower the intensity and increase the rest days. Cortisol will fight against muscle growth so if you experience any over training symptoms its time to change things around to help your body repair and heal.



Feel sets The feel sets are sets what you will do previous your working set, these sets are done so you can determine what weight you will be doing on your working set. Sometimes on my first feeler set it feels light and I'm very powerful so the next feeler set I will put some poundage on and see how that feels, again if that feels easy I know I can go heavier on my working set. I also take in consideration what I am going to be doing whether its forced and negs or rest pause or drops, I just judge a weight what I will be hitting failure around the 4th - 6th rep mark or less and then incorporate the beyond failure protocols. I also remember what I did last time I did that movement because in the back of my mind I know I have to overload my body. I am always pushing heavier weights or trying to increase the intensity





.Nutrition 

Food is a major player when we are building muscle tissue or shredding bf. We need to eat enough energy releasing foods to fuel our workouts and also to promote muscle building. Nutrition is a very individual thing and nothing is set in stone no matter who tells you it is, its not. We are all different and have different levels of activity and we need to establish a baseline diet and work off this to suit your needs and goals. Make no mistake if you want to grow bigger thicker muscles than your going to have to eat big, train big and be consistent with everything you do. Once you establish your maintenance diet you can put a strategy together to add muscle and body weight or shred body fat. Learning how your body responds to different amounts of calories will be one most beneficial things you can do because this will open a plan to determine how you go about attacking and achieving your goals



*Also read this , this is were the magic can happen if you can take your body to this level, it takes a lot of dedication and pain do this but read it and understand what I am trying to say,*

With HIT training we are specifically trying to stimulate a certain type of muscle fiber. We have different muscle fibers in the body and once you know how to train certain ones and the importance of making these grow you can design the ideal training routine to suit your goals. We are all aiming to add muscle tissue and we have to put ourselves under stress by progressively overloading our bodies so they have no alternative but to grow. All muscle contraction starts by nerves being activated, the stronger the nerve signal the more forceful muscle contraction can be applied to the lift. The nerves first get activated by the brain and this is where the mind muscle connection comes into play. I am always saying that you must get yourself in the right mind set for the working set, there are many ways to do this and ive explained many ways in my thread how I go about doing it, but the stronger the mind before the working set the better contraction and force can be applied to the muscle fibers. We can all do 10 reps with a certain weight but you can also really think about those ten reps and really activate the contraction in the muscle and work that muscle to the max and those reps will feel completely different. This is what separates a lot of people so before I move on really think about how you do reps and work that particular muscle to its max. I've seen many members saying they are doing so many reps with a certain amount of weight but I can say I bet a lot aren't really activating that muscle group to the max. Remember everything starts from within your brain, your inner self and how you go about attacking that working set. You have seen how I describe the zone I get myself into just prior to my working set and this is the zone you need to be in to fully work those muscle fibers to the max.

We are after activating the motoneurons within the network of nerves which is the signal for the muscle to contact, we have many different sizes but we are only interested in the large motonerurons which activate the large muscle fibers. We have slow switch and fast twitch fibers within the body and we are all made up of different amounts, that's why some of us grow bigger and faster and others struggle growing big thick muscles. Usually the guys who struggle with adding slabs of tissue on their frame are the guys who have more slow twitch fibers than fast, and the guys who are more genetically gifted with bodybuilding are the one who have more fast twitch. But either way you need to activate the fast twitch fibers and give yourself the best chance of building bigger larger muscles.The slow twitch ones are the ones what are more suited for endurance and are very resistant to fatigue the aerobic type athletes have a higher amount of these fibers over fast twitch. 

Fast twitch muscle fibers are the ones we are concerned with activating and working. There are two types 2a and 2b. The type 2a ones are fibers which get activated when doing higher reps ranges lets say more than 12-15 reps, they are also the fibers what come into action around the 6-12 rep range. Type 2a fibers when activated correctly can grow in size and this is what many people tend to activate and see growth from when they start training. The type 2b fast twitch fibers are the ones what I adore lol these babies are the foundations of building bigger thicker muscles, if you activate these correctly they can grow tremendously in size and grow about 4 times the size of the 2a fast twitch fibers can, so you can see these are the ones what make the difference, but stimulating both type 2a and 2b fast twitch is getting the best out of both worlds but my personal aim and priority is to stimulate the type 2b fast twitch fibers and seriously breakdown these to get me some serious size on my frame.

What's the best way to stimulate the 2b fast twitch muscle fibers I hear you asking, well ive described it all the way through my thread but let me go over it again so you understand how important it is to have the right mind set what I speak of all the time and what kind of stimulation is needed to activate these tough fibers. Usually during a set of about 6-12 reps the type 2a are activated, you know the sets were your repping away and start struggle a little bit and rack it and move on. In basic terms your not going to true positive failure (I can go on and on what true positive failure is but trust me it takes along time to push your body to this limit and a lot of mental dedication its an advance training protocol) now if you took your set to true positive failure and you cant do anymore this is the time when the type 2b fast twitch fibers are activated, once you activate these fibers this is the best potential to really make your muscle grow bigger and thicker.

You will grow with normal sets and reps with modest intensity but if you want serious growth than you have to take your working set to true positive failure, this means using a weight what is heavy enough to make that working set very difficult and then going past true positive failure. Remember the type 2a fast twitch do all do all the work until you get to true positive failure then the type 2b come into play and these are the ones what produce the biggest gains in muscle size. You have to progressively overload your body each time you train, this means add more weight (or reps until you can add more weight) to stimulate growth, you also need to make sure your activating the type 2b fast twitch fibers which only get involved when you go to true positive failure. Your rep range needs to be between 6-12 reps at the failure point, I prefer around 6-8 reps range at failure. This is why its wise to have a partner when trying to activate the type 2b fast twitch fibers because you may think your going to positive failure but you wont be you need that reassurance of a partner who can just take that small amount of weight of the bar at true positive failure so you can mentally get past this sticking point. There are many advance protocols what you can use to get yourself to true positive failure which I've discussed in my thread.

HIT training will activate the tough type 2b muscle fibers and going to true positive will recruit all the muscle fibers which will give you the best chance of some serious tissue growth. Using advance training protocols like drop sets, rest pause, forced, negatives, supersets and even partials can be used to further your beyond failure training to help you activate the type 2b fast twitch fibers.

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## marcus300

You want to big, you want to build big muscle and turn heads and look like you train instead of being one of these skinny arse know it all's who know fuk all about building tissue except for wasting all their tissue away with these stupid diets what don't work for saving tissue then that's fair enough. But you want to look like you train and be different you need to train big, eat big and be intense in every aspect of bodybuilding. listen to guys who look like something and not some skinny are beach knob. Train to your max and make it count fuk those so call diet gurus off who look like swimmers, retarded brain dead stupid fools who have no idea who will never build any kind of body, listen to the people who know how to do and not some pick reading out of some diet book.....

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## shaunjohn242002

I just came off a ten week cycle and I used dropsets the whole time I was on. I stayed below 8 reps each set. I went from 183lbs to 200lbs. Strength went way up.

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## marcus300

bump

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## f1nallyfr33

I am 5 weeks away from pct. at which point I will be switching to your drop set method. How long is too long. Should I continue through the whole thing (pct) and go back to my regular routine, or stay until after blood work. 
I've read the stickies on how to keep gains and drop setting is what I am looking forward to try. 
And I under stand the need for short workouts during pct. I just need to know how long to go at it.

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## xthedukex

Ive been wanting to try this technique, thanks for the info.

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## Mr.BB

Also a big fan of dropsets. Over many years I learned that my body responds better in short, low volume but very high intensity workouts, so dropsets to failure are a must.
Even in warmup set I ussually do more reps than most guys in the gym. First exercise of a muscle I always have 2 warmup sets, followed by 2 sets to failure, ussually dropsets included in both. In big muscles I tend to do 3 exercises, many times only 2 sets, but at the intensity level I reach is really hard to do more. I mean close to throwing up intensity. 
Small muscles most of time only 2 exercises. Many guys in the gym do like 5 sets per exercises, but most sets they are not even struggling for air, so I dont think its very effective. Intensity is the key in my opinion, if I train shoulders for example I will have a *very hard time* washing my hair in shower after, good thing I dont have that much hair  :Stick Out Tongue: 
Of course, this was how I trained with no AAS, now that Im on cycle I am still adapting and learning how my body reacts. But, Im following the same princicle.
The muscles respond better with AAS to the the high intensity so I am having to increase slightly the volume, the hard part is that the CNS is still not used to this higher intensity of using AAS and its not easy.... But if you are a bodybuilder you have to love this feeling  :Smilie:

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## almostgone

ttt

Great information here!!

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## marcus300

trt bump

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## davesah1

do you ever do both rest pause and drop sets in a workout? 
I enjoy using rest pause when I'm at my strongest which is the beginning of the workout and then using drop sets towards the end to really blow out the muscle. 
You ever try a "gauntlet" set where you do a drop set wait about 15 seconds and work your way back up to the weight you started with? Those are killer.

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## Chicagotarsier

Can remember way back doing drop sets in high school with the strength training coach from MSU. There were no breaks in a drop set (key is to not let ATP catch up) and it was all power training (no one arm exercises). Dan Duchane preached drop sets and is as tried and true as you get.

That and plateau busting using the thing they call HIT training now were structured evolutions weekly. When you are young there is no such thing as overtraining lol.

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## marcus300

> do you ever do both rest pause and drop sets in a workout? 
> I enjoy using rest pause when I'm at my strongest which is the beginning of the workout and then using drop sets towards the end to really blow out the muscle. 
> You ever try a "gauntlet" set where you do a drop set wait about 15 seconds and work your way back up to the weight you started with? Those are killer.


Drop setting is implement at the point of true positive failure on the exercise so you can go beyond failure if your mind is in the right place. You could use a combination of rest pause drops within the same workout but that depends on the muscle group your attacking and its very advanced. Learn how to tale your body to failure first before implementing any beyond failure methods IMHO

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## davesah1

> Drop setting is implement at the point of true positive failure on the exercise so you can go beyond failure if your mind is in the right place. You could use a combination of rest pause drops within the same workout but that depends on the muscle group your attacking and its very advanced. Learn how to tale your body to failure first before implementing any beyond failure methods IMHO


I've gotten rid of most of the drop sets and some volume in my training and implemented more of the Dorian Yates style training (forced reps followed by eccentric exhaustion) you posted that I totally forgot about when I watched it two years ago. I also use rest pause for certain exercises. My strength has gone up a LOT. I think I was overdoing it with my training volume and minimal resting. Got all caught up in the CT Fletcher mentality.......doesn't really work.

For example, 3 weeks ago I would rep 45 pounds dumbbells for hammer curls and today I got 55lbs for 8 reps. I'm very pleased. I like drop setting but I think there's a point where your going beyond what you need for growth and only excessively depleting muscle glycogen and making for a longer recovery. Of course its also super useful to have a gym partner for bloods and guts style training.

I used to do like 3 dropsets a body part plus 10-12 sets. Now I do 4-5 working sets with one of them being a rest pause or drop set. Less might be more. I like to work out 5 days a week.

Thanks for the inspiration on changing my shit.

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## marcus300

> I've gotten rid of most of the drop sets and some volume in my training and implemented more of the Dorian Yates style training (forced reps followed by eccentric exhaustion) you posted that I totally forgot about when I watched it two years ago. I also use rest pause for certain exercises. My strength has gone up a LOT. I think I was overdoing it with my training volume and minimal resting. Got all caught up in the CT Fletcher mentality.......doesn't really work.
> 
> For example, 3 weeks ago I would rep 45 pounds dumbbells for hammer curls and today I got 55lbs for 8 reps. I'm very pleased. I like drop setting but I think there's a point where your going beyond what you need for growth and only excessively depleting muscle glycogen and making for a longer recovery. Of course its also super useful to have a gym partner for bloods and guts style training.
> 
> I used to do like 3 dropsets a body part plus 10-12 sets. Now I do 4-5 working sets with one of them being a rest pause or drop set. Less might be more. I like to work out 5 days a week.
> 
> Thanks for the inspiration on changing my shit.


Drop setting is just one beyond failure protocol I use, if I have a partner I much prefer forced and negative. If you read my thread it tells you in there about all the protocols and also how to take yourself part positive failure. I never train volume even drop setting is hit STYLE. If you want to learn how to train to hit and take your body into serious growth and also get a better understanding of the muscle fibers used check out my diary in the lounge. Its a long read but worth it,.

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## Rusty11

I'm old and I aint one of the big guys, so take this for what it's worth. I've found that the big muscle groups really benefit using beyond failure techniques, while smaller ones, like biceps, grow the best going to the failure point, but not beyond. With the smaller muscle groups, rest-pause methods keep them growing FOR ME. That might be considered a beyond-failure technique, but with 20'seconds in between, it's a bit different then just hammering away. I do, occasionally, perform forced reps and negatives on biceps, but I don't do it regularly. Besides, I've stopped over-obsessing on arms and am focusing on just being, overall, bigger.

I'm sure marcus will hammer away at me if he disagrees  :Smilie:

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## davesah1

> I'm old and I aint one of the big guys, so take this for what it's worth. I've found that the big muscle groups really benefit using beyond failure techniques, while smaller ones, like biceps, grow the best going to the failure point, but not beyond. With the smaller muscle groups, rest-pause methods keep them growing FOR ME. That might be considered a beyond-failure technique, but with 20'seconds in between, it's a bit different then just hammering away. I do, occasionally, perform forced reps and negatives on biceps, but I don't do it regularly. Besides, I've stopped over-obsessing on arms and am focusing on just being, overall, bigger.
> 
> I'm sure marcus will hammer away at me if he disagrees


My arms definitely grew doing exactly what you said, but they'll stalled out bc the strength was stagnant. Curling exercises especially are a pain the ass for me get the numbers up. Until I went to failure and beyond. I know they're is no direct correlation between strength and size, but if I do 8 reps for arms for a month or two and get significantly stronger and then go back to high reps, perhaps that will generate more size. For example, curling 45's for 12 instead of 35's. hmm

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## marcus300

Bump for a recent member asking me about drop setting....

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## marcus300

bump

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