# COMPETITIVE BODYBUILDING - POWERLIFTING - ATHLETICS & SPORTS > COLLEGIATE & PROFESSIONAL SPORTS >  does the rocket juice?!?

## LilVito469

does the rocket juice?!? well according to sportscenter garry sheffield said i know hes just a pitcher but hes not just drinking soda water

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## Jack87

Lets just say i know someone that caught for him for a few seasons
and yeah there's something special about his orange juice in the
morning... Like most pro athletes... BTW what the hell is up with 
this thread looking totally different then all the others? I must be
tripping...

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## KeyMastur

they're called greenies

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## biglouie250

who cares hes a jerkoff any way....dont see him "protecting" his teammates by beaning batters anymore ...why?? because all AL pitchers dont have any balls

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## Bob Balco

It sucks that all this steroid talk is out. All of us in this forum know for a fact that LOTS of guys were juicing if there were no tests. Think about it.....you have a contract year with potentially millons $ staring you in the face and they dont test for juice! Not to mention you can get the hook up on the best stuff and have the $ to buy whatever you want. Well over half the rosters in college when i played and coached were on some roids. 

Roids dont make you all that much better but thats up for debate for obvious reasons. But steroids dont make Barry Bonds see the ball better and have tremendous plate disapline. So the thing is all of the baseball fans that are not knowledgable about steroids think all the accomplishments these players have made are cheap. This is wrong in my opinion

None of us really know if rocket juiced and he has never pissed + so who are we to say. If you were to ask me I woudl say the comment Sheff made was reffering to the rocket and "greenies" a form of speed.

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## Rsox1

roger is a big guy but by no means muscular, i mean his bf has got to be over 17%, I am usually the first person to scream "juicehad" at pro althetes, but in rogers case I think he just matured, I mean I saw him training one time in a special and he was doing smith machine squats with 135, not exactly "juice" weight, In my opinion Roger is just got olderr and bigger, the body he has could be easlily obtained with a little work and a lotta texas smoke house food, and btw Sheffield should talk, its possible he is on juice but I wouldn't bet on it.

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## Jack87

Not to disagree, but i have first hand info that's all I'm gonna say...

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## Jack87

BTW just because he's not squating 500lbs for 10 reps
doesn't mean he doesn't juice... alot of pro athletes use
anabolics more to speed recovery then just pure power
or mass gains... For example you think in the NFL that
the players could recover for next weeks game if they
weren't on something? They need to be just to speed
recovery so they can perform next week...

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## Rsox1

buff i agree with you 100% juice isn't just to have ripped muscles, the fact is roger is not a hard body by any means, but that doesn't mean he doesn't juice to help him recover after each start, and maybe your source is correct I never said that it wasn't true, but what I am saying is that the phyique he has acquired is far far from a "juiced" physique, more like a bar room brawler's body. Its very possible he has juiced but it wold not surprise me if he hasn't. So in the end its just not as obvious as somone like David Boston in football, just my $.02

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## Bob Balco

Clemens is a strong dude. Clemens can squat a ton I bet. Clemens off season and in season work outs are stuff of legend in basbeball. All parts of his conditioning program have been used by college coaches and fellow major leaguers such as Curt Shilling. I am sure you can find info about that on a search engine. Clemens being stong and in shape has enabled him to be a success as a power pitcher late in his career. Having a "roid looking body" is not what a pitcher taking the juice would be after. I am not at all saying rocket took roids nor do i care if he did.

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## Rsox1

woahh wait one second I could entertain the thought that roger might be juicing, but jerry rice had legendary workouts, clemens is legendary and he works out there is a differnce, no that you are totally wrong but most of our information comes from morons like Tim McCarver who would think that the gazelle could produce a legendary workout, and anyone who watches red sox or diamondbacks baseball knows one thing for sure Curt 
Shilling has never ever done a legendary workout, his workout is with his mind, he is one of the smartest players in the game. Shilling is a grat guy (so it seems) but he is more outta shape then Clemens, he has a big gut, and chicken legs, and his arms are stringy, maybe Clemens workout is great for a pitcher, but it is very very likely not legendary, just in the gullible public's mind

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## Krunchtime

> who cares hes a jerkoff any way....dont see him "protecting" his teammates by beaning batters anymore ...why?? because all AL pitchers dont have any balls


he pitches in the nL........

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## Krunchtime

> roger is a big guy but by no means muscular, i mean his bf has got to be over 17%, I am usually the first person to scream "juicehad" at pro althetes, but in rogers case I think he just matured, I mean I saw him training one time in a special and he was doing smith machine squats with 135, not exactly "juice" weight, In my opinion Roger is just got olderr and bigger, the body he has could be easlily obtained with a little work and a lotta texas smoke house food, and btw Sheffield should talk, its possible he is on juice but I wouldn't bet on it.


Not to flame... but roger is not fat by any means.. I know you didnt say he was but I promise under that uniform there is a well built athlete

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## Bob Balco

Dude I am going to get some links for this. Do a search on clemens work out. I dont want to argue but I know I am right. Shill credits clemens with helping him with his work out routine which prolonged his career. They used to work out together in the off season in Houston. Shill can "work out with his mind" all he wants but its not going to help him be a power pitcher STILL at this age. He is a smart pitcher but face it he relies on his heat. I cant believe you are a red sox fan and dont have a clue about Clemens off season regimen?? I am sure clemens diet is not the cleanest lol. You dont have to be lean and look good with your shirt off to be a good pitcher.

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## Rsox1

Yes I am a red sox fan and way before he had this rebirth Roger was fat outta shape and screwed the red sox, with 4 ****ty seasons, the best shaoe he was ever ever in was in 97 with toronto, I have no proof because I did not know roger personally when he was here, but the only legendary workout he did while he was with the red sox was at dunkin donuts, and I agree you do not have to be able to take off your hsirt to be a good pic but the point of this article was that roger was on juice and I ran to his defense, I said his phyique could be obtained without juice unlike some others in baseball, thats all I said

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## Bob Balco

Roger has numerous endorsements for baseball training products dude. This doesnt make Rocket a beast but you dont get them endorsements by being a fat lazy guy who dont work out bro. You dont contend for the cy young and start the all star game in your 40's as a power pitcher being a fat lazy guy. Lots and LOTS of training goes into the 4 days between starts for rocket. 
No kidding you didnt know Roger personally when he was with boston. If you did we wouldnt even be having this convo. Because he may have had a high bodyfat % doesnt mean he wasnt working out dude......ok man!!!!!!!!!!! time to go get links to add for this post. Jeez man...EVERYTHING the rocket is right now is because of his training! WHY on earth do you claim the guy is a out of shape, donut eating, guy that dont work out?? You just like to argue or you really dont know baseball? I am going to take the friggin time to get you some links. If I get links and you dont have anything with a link for your proof that rocket dont work out the convo is over dude. Argueing something you obviously have no clue about is not cool bro. 
http://www.mensjournal.com/healthFit...t_clemens.html
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/nyy/ne..._nyy&fext=.jsp
http://www.onlineathleticclub.net/resources/rocket.asp
look at this one and tell me he is fat http://www.cardillousa.com/brianmac.htm
LOL read this one peter gammons this one actually quotes sheff and what he said http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto...p-183667c.html
ok bro I highly doubt you will even read these few links i found. I will copy and paste what was said by sheff the other day and man it really differs from what you have to say....
"But the Yankee right fielder wonders why other stars with obsessive workout routines and high productivity, such as Roger Clemens, escape steroid suspicion and have their superior fitness level attributed to their dedication"

"Sheffield pointed to Clemens as an example of a player whose success is attributed to a superior fitness program"
Your turn for links????????

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## Bob Balco

Here is a link to a interview with Schilling about some of his work out in the off season. He talks about being addicted to the martial arts while even though in beginner stages. Far from not doing ANY work outs and working on "working on his mind". He also talks about doing pilates which he still does to this day. http://msn.foxsports.com/content/view?contentId=1000316

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## LilVito469

i didn't know this topic would have made people argue over whether he juices or not...i personally dont think so but then again i could be wrong, i thought he was just on some kind of routine that i should be on to be 40 and in good shape like that...

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## Rsox1

this is the last i am going to say on this issue and then I am done , I read the links, the workout seems like a very good workout, no doubt about it. First point that I am going to make, thats what Roger says he does, ask anybody what they bench and then watch them bench and you will see that most of the time people exxagerate. Second and my most important point, I have read that workout and surrently I am about 5"10 and 205 and a bf of around 11 to 12 ish and I am being 100 percent honest, right now If I were to try that workout I could not do it, but given two weeks I could complete that workout, and within a month I know could do that workout and do it well, A "legendary workout" as it was put should not be something the a shmoe off the street could do with a month of training, granted I try to be humble but I do not think that I am a shmoe, but I know that I am not even close to legendary. A legendary workout should be something that most people couldn't do even if they put all their effort into it, legendary ie jerry rice, walter payton, running up hill for a mile with a tire on, Kurt Angle workouts running 3 ,miles a day in under 18 mins with a 50 backpack on those are legendary because to be honest I don't think thatr even most trained people could do those workouts with 6 months of training. Roger gained 30 freaking lbs in 2 years with the sox and it was not from workong out, and when I see him in his uni now he don't look much different, believe all the media tells you and what you want to belive but no person with a least a 38 inch waist and over 17% bf does legendary workouts, Even though I do not like the man at all he is and was one of the most legendary players to play the game but please do not let the media mix that up with legendary workouts, this is all I have to say about this issue, and for the original post does he juice, I could see it either way so only Roger really knows

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## Krunchtime

bottom line.... Roger may not look as good with his shirt off as some people on this board but there isnt one person on here that can throw a fastball as fast as him. Guarnteed

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## O.T

> bottom line.... Roger may not look as good with his shirt off as some people on this board but there isnt one person on here that can throw a fastball as fast as him. Guarnteed


I'm going to have to agree with this point. 

I also believe that even though roger's body may not be anything to brag about. Under that uniform lies a beast. Personally, I think he uses steroids for recovery purposes. Why not? everyone else in sports does now a days..

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## saboudian

I honestly cannot believe how ppl are talking up clemens' workout, this so called "legendary routine" is a complete joke, its just ridiculously retarded.

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## NorCaLifter

see in my opinion pitchers really dont need to juice... mechanics are way more important than your bench when it comes to pitching. Hell look at nolan ryan...skinny as hell but completely dominating.... i think its dangerous for pitchers to juice..here is why.... building up all that muscle especially in the upperbody, i think it would cause too much strain for the tendons... hell being natural is hard enough on a pitchers arm... Im of the philosaphy... "if your a pitcher...you either have it or you dont" All the great pitchers back in the day were natural and didnt need any gear. So if clemens is juicing I dont think it has made him any better, I think he was a stud of a pitcher without it.

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## Hugh-Hefner's-Son

IMO my vote goes for him being on the juicy juice. Recall the time when he threw the broken bat at Piazza. WTf was that about, he was raging.

Just because he's a pitcher doesn't rule him out, just look at John Rocker. He was a nut and appeared to be juiced. Of course pitchers don't "need" to juice, but could it hurt them being a little stronger and recovering faster.

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## NorCaLifter

I think it can hurt a pitcher. Pitching is mechanics, plain and simple. Sure having a strong arm help but strength doesnt mean size or biceps or the amount you can curl. There are plenty of pitchers out there that i can out curl or out bench or out squat but... but... i cannot throw a 95mph fastball. This is a case were size and strength dont matter. I dont think that juicing will take a guy who can throw 80mph to 90mph... the only place a pitcher can really grow and not worry about screwing up his tendons and ligaments is his legs but when your juicing... its not just confined to the lower body. So on the question, does roger clemens juice...who knows, he was a big boy way back in the day and is a big boy now... and i know a lot of guys who get pissed really easy who do not juice... its called being a fierce competitor. So him throwing the bat i cannot attribute to steroids . Now its not that noticable if he juices if he does...not like the case of barry bonds... I mean look at how he grew so **** fast when he came to sf... he was a twig with the pirates and just ballooned like crazy way way too fast. So its hard to say if roger juices... If he is, it hasnt improved his game, hell look at him in the beginning with boston...well.. thats my opinion anyways.

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## Krunchtime

> see in my opinion pitchers really dont need to juice... mechanics are way more important than your bench when it comes to pitching. Hell look at nolan ryan...skinny as hell but completely dominating.... i think its dangerous for pitchers to juice..here is why.... building up all that muscle especially in the upperbody, i think it would cause too much strain for the tendons... hell being natural is hard enough on a pitchers arm... Im of the philosaphy... "if your a pitcher...you either have it or you dont" All the great pitchers back in the day were natural and didnt need any gear. So if clemens is juicing I dont think it has made him any better, I think he was a stud of a pitcher without it.


btw.. nolan ryan lived in the weight room. His legs were massive which is where he got his power from... since I am a pitcher he is my idol. 101mph fastball is extremely rare.. As far as the rocket juicing...who knows? Rocker is a yes on the juice and I believe kyle farnsworth may have done it as well. HItters...well that list goes on for miles

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## Krunchtime

> I think it can hurt a pitcher. Pitching is mechanics, plain and simple. Sure having a strong arm help but strength doesnt mean size or biceps or the amount you can curl. There are plenty of pitchers out there that i can out curl or out bench or out squat but... but... i cannot throw a 95mph fastball. This is a case were size and strength dont matter. I dont think that juicing will take a guy who can throw 80mph to 90mph... the only place a pitcher can really grow and not worry about screwing up his tendons and ligaments is his legs but when your juicing... its not just confined to the lower body. So on the question, does roger clemens juice...who knows, he was a big boy way back in the day and is a big boy now... and i know a lot of guys who get pissed really easy who do not juice... its called being a fierce competitor. So him throwing the bat i cannot attribute to steroids. Now its not that noticable if he juices if he does...not like the case of barry bonds... I mean look at how he grew so **** fast when he came to sf... he was a twig with the pirates and just ballooned like crazy way way too fast. So its hard to say if roger juices... If he is, it hasnt improved his game, hell look at him in the beginning with boston...well.. thats my opinion anyways.



those are all great points. agree 100%

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## NorCaLifter

Oh of course, by no way did i mean that mr. ryan didnt train. The man stood at 6'2 about 200lbs in 93 at his peak weight. The man was a rock for sure. And as far as being your idol, hell you couldnt pick a better one. I can remember growing up playing ball and wanting to dominate like he did.

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## Krunchtime

Yeah. Ryan probably didnt have the best bench press numbers but as you said pitchers don't rely on their strength in bench. However his leg press is something to talk about

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## Rod Farva

Roger might juice. Might not. That much I'm not sure of. Some of the reasoning on this thread can use some work though. 

Nolan Ryan was NOT skinny as hell. Ask Robin Ventura what a pushover Nolan Ryan was. He came from an era when lifting in baseball (ESPECIALLY for pitchers) was strictly taboo. 

Being in NY, I saw some of the specials they did on Rocket's routine. They showed him in the hot tub warming up for the days' run one time. He didn't have a ripped physique at all but that has more to do with his priorities than anything else. The people on this board lift for show...he lifted for go. As for his wide waist, a lot of that is natural. Some people are just built that way. Not to mention he's going to work his obliques hard without worrying if it fuks up his tapered V look. Obliques are big in baseball hitting/pitching to build torque for the swing/delivery. You combine strong trunk work (abs) with very little upper body work (can't take a chance of fukking up the wing) and you get Roger or any other pitcher. Instead of a V build he looks like a cylinder. Obliques make his already thick waist look even wider. 

How many pitchers have athletic bodies? That's the nature of the position. I know guys that are considered to be in fairly good shape (not as competitive BBers but rather as John Q Public) and I know for a fact that some of these guys are just natrually lean and all they do is lift chest and arms. Their natural skinny build plus a modicum of upper body development makes them look to be in far better shape than Clemens or 90% of other pitchers. That's because our society looks at tits and arms first and not legs/obliques. How many times you see a guy with a normal build up top and big legs and hear somebody marvel at his physique? How many times have you seen the opposite (big upper/average legs) and people who don't know better are impressed by it? Very few "average" people lift legs much if at all. Tits and arms are the only things that a pitcher really CAN'T do. They can't mess around with that upper shoulder region. How many guys don't do much bench because of bad shoulders. Now imagine how much precaution you take if your multimillion dollar livelihood depended on those shoulders. Uh...bye bye benchie! 

Even hitters don't always bench that much. I remember thinking that Jay Buhner was a big dude who hit bombs (he did). I saw some SI article on him and they showed him with his shirt off and he had zero chest. That just gets in the way of a good smooth baseball swing. Most of the juiceheads you see now just lift in the place of developing a good swing. Many of these guys use lifting to mask bad swing mechanics. Outside of the hated Bonds and Sosa, how many of these big strong guys are hitting tape measure shots any more? Darryl Strawberry hit the ball farther than any of these guys. Micky Mantle was 5'11" and 200 lbs and never lifted weights and he hit the ball farther than anybody. He hit the ball out of stadiums. He almost hit one out of Yankee stadium. Try googling Mantle to see how far he hit the ball. Nowadays you get guys raving about a ball going 450 but Mantle hit a ball 565. Look it up. I'm sure he was strong as a bull but he didn't look like a competitive BBer by any stretch. Big shoulders don't help in baseball. I know a local juicehead who was a big deal in high school baseball but never went anywhere with it. He was all juiced up but like a lot of guys (Paul Konerko) figured that if a little juice/lifting is good then a lot must be better. Got too big (shoulders like volleyballs) and said he can't hit baseball any more and even has trouble adopting to slowpitch softball and harnessing all his strength. He looks like a total bodybuilder but that's not helping him at all. 

Wow...somebody shut me up...my keyboard is smoking and I forgot my original point.

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## Rod Farva

Just reading one of Bob Balco's links and this shows everything...


http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/nyy/ne..._nyy&fext=.jsp 

When Clemens hangs up his pitching spikes for the final time, he will return to his home in Houston to spend time with his wife and four sons. He said that while he plans on continuing his workouts, they won't be to the level that they are now. 

"I'll probably lift a little more than I do now, as long as it won't hurt my golf swing," he said. "I'll still work, but I'll be active enough. I'll be chasing four boys around." 



That shows how little lifting Roger does. 

Another point is that the only guy who ever hung in with Roger's workouts was Andy Pettite who is a great big fatass. The man is a perfect pear. Complete opposite of what the average BBer would desire in a physique yet he's the only guy who hangs with Clemens.

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## biofx

I'm sure a little juice wouldn't hurt the velocity on that fastball. It's weird how sheffield called him out like that. Not cool to point fingers

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## goodtobeapimp

If you think steroids will make you pitch like clemens...Be my guest. I get so tired of people using steroids for their excuse why they aren't something great. I read an article about ryan throwing in the 90's when he was in high school. **** he must have been on gh... Matter of fact Mantle did hit a ball estimated 565 feet. That doesnt mean he was a steroid junkie. What about Ruth? Hell he is one, if not the most dominate player of a sport of a certain era.

Thats why I laugh when I see so many people in college talking about steroid this and that. Yea steroid use is there without a doubt in my mind. You have to be a total moron to think that steroids are going to make you something you arent. That isn't steroids, thats TALENT.

People tend to point fingers at steroids like they are magic. Hell Ronnie should be throwing 200mph fastballs and dunking from half court.

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## AustrianOAK14

i dont think he juices

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## Jack87

I know someone that has caught for him in the past and yes
he does along with alot more major league players then you
think...  :Wink: 




> i dont think he juices

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## AustrianOAK14

well he probably did in the past but right now hes fat

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## Jack87

That doesn't mean he doesn't juice... alot of the MLB pitchers
use anabolics to speed recovery between starts... Trust me
i have some inside information, but i really don't blame him
ior any other pro athlete that does... **** i do it and i'm not
even playing for millions of dollars each year... these guys
careers depend on having respectable numbers year in and
year out, do you really think they don't try to make their
numbers the best they can so when they are up for a new
contract or maybe in Roger's case the hall of fame that they
have done everything they can do assure themselves of
getting what they work so hard for?




> well he probably did in the past but right now hes fat

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## O.T

Yeah, every one juices for one reason or another, lay off of bonds and sheffield.. every athlete in every sport..

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## AustrianOAK14

i think the referees are jucing too

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## O.T

lol  :Devil Grin:

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## O.T

> Just reading one of Bob Balco's links and this shows everything...
> 
> 
> http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/nyy/ne..._nyy&fext=.jsp 
> 
> When Clemens hangs up his pitching spikes for the final time, he will return to his home in Houston to spend time with his wife and four sons. He said that while he plans on continuing his workouts, they won't be to the level that they are now. 
> 
> "I'll probably lift a little more than I do now, as long as it won't hurt my golf swing," he said. "I'll still work, but I'll be active enough. I'll be chasing four boys around." 
> 
> ...


Forget about physique. Atheletes like baseball players or football players dont need to look like bodybuilders to claim they use juice. Recovery time is crucial to them and what better than steroids . Bottom line.

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## AustrianOAK14

rocket did test and deca back in the early 90s

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## O.T

says who?

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## rocketman21

The reason some people look at Rocket is because he was one of the first modern pitchers to adopt a more strenuous workout regime than most hitters. When you look at guys who came along at the same time as Roger(Gooden, Langston, Hershiser) they were string-beans. Roger was pursued by several football teams to try out when he got out of college. He has always been a big dude. He was only 24 when he had his breakout year in 1986. Since then, he has learned what it takes to get his body in shape for the season. I have heard Yankees tell stories about players who tried to hang with Clemens during his daily routine, and wound up pulling muscles and throwing up. Men hit their physical peak at around 30. This is the age at which you have attained all the muscle mass you are going to have, and it takes a great deal of effort to retain it. Look at Clemens in 1990 and look at him today...not much difference except that he is noticeably older. Now, look at Barry in 1990 and look at him today. ****! I don't doubt that Clemens has taken substances to get an edge, but I doubt he has ever used illegal steroids or else we would have heard something by now. Barry has been under suspicion for years. Clemens has not even been mentioned, except by pathetic juicers who are trying to divert attention away from their own failings. Clemens, for his age, is in excellent shape. He credits his work ethic, and the fact that his wife is a physical trainer and fitness buff herself. I think that when you have a spouse that is as health conscious as you are, it helps. She even catches for him on several workouts. Don't believe me, check this out...

http://www.debbieclemens.com/images/dc_pink1.jpg

So, until someone says otherwise(besides trolls on this board who claim to have "insider knowledge", let's let this one go. There is no smoke or fire to this story.

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## BBaller15

I think its a little uncalled for for the fans to get all crazy about the whole roids issue. Sure it'll make you hit the ball a little farther, but its not gonna make you hit the ball. I've played for most of my life and seen some pretty bad ballplayers take some stuff. They don't hit any better, but every blue moon they'd actually make contact, and it'd go a little farther. Bonds is the best hitter in the game, roids or not.

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## LD_18

> The reason some people look at Rocket is because he was one of the first modern pitchers to adopt a more strenuous workout regime than most hitters. When you look at guys who came along at the same time as Roger(Gooden, Langston, Hershiser) they were string-beans. Roger was pursued by several football teams to try out when he got out of college. He has always been a big dude. He was only 24 when he had his breakout year in 1986. Since then, he has learned what it takes to get his body in shape for the season. I have heard Yankees tell stories about players who tried to hang with Clemens during his daily routine, and wound up pulling muscles and throwing up. Men hit their physical peak at around 30. This is the age at which you have attained all the muscle mass you are going to have, and it takes a great deal of effort to retain it. Look at Clemens in 1990 and look at him today...not much difference except that he is noticeably older. Now, look at Barry in 1990 and look at him today. ****! I don't doubt that Clemens has taken substances to get an edge, but I doubt he has ever used illegal steroids or else we would have heard something by now. Barry has been under suspicion for years. Clemens has not even been mentioned, except by pathetic juicers who are trying to divert attention away from their own failings. Clemens, for his age, is in excellent shape. He credits his work ethic, and the fact that his wife is a physical trainer and fitness buff herself. I think that when you have a spouse that is as health conscious as you are, it helps. She even catches for him on several workouts. Don't believe me, check this out...
> 
> http://www.debbieclemens.com/images/dc_pink1.jpg
> 
> So, until someone says otherwise(besides trolls on this board who claim to have "insider knowledge", let's let this one go. There is no smoke or fire to this story.


agree on everything except for the physical peak at 30, from studies i have seen that peak is reached at 25 and levels off for a few yrs then starts to decline. but i am not gonna accuse Clemens of anything, he is one of the few true old school type pitchers left in the game. plus his off season workout routine is unbelieveable to understate it.

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## insanepump621

I think in cansecos book it says something about clemens juicing

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## LD_18

i dont trust a word canseco says, i got 0 respect for the guy, none at all.

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## bigtimerjp

had a coach that was drafted along with clemens in the same organization, played together 1 year in pro ball, said yes, he definitely does... first hand info!!

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## rocketman21

> had a coach that was drafted along with clemens in the same organization, played together 1 year in pro ball, said yes, he definitely does... first hand info!!


And you sir, are a liar. Show me proof. Tell me a name. Something! Keep these lies off this thread.

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## rocketman21

> That doesn't mean he doesn't juice... alot of the MLB pitchers
> use anabolics to speed recovery between starts... Trust me
> i have some inside information, but i really don't blame him
> ior any other pro athlete that does... **** i do it and i'm not
> even playing for millions of dollars each year... these guys
> careers depend on having respectable numbers year in and
> year out, do you really think they don't try to make their
> numbers the best they can so when they are up for a new
> contract or maybe in Roger's case the hall of fame that they
> ...


Lemmie guess your "source", John Marzano, right? I know John, and he is a loser. He blamed Roger for not sticking up for him when the Sox let him go. Truth is, he is a crappy catcher and an awful hitter who never belonged in the big leagues. A bullpen catcher, nothing more. If he juices, then why did his agent release his medical records for the last five years which showed that Clemens has tested negative for steroids on every single test? You need to stop with the lies, juiceboy. Just because you are too much of pansy to avoid taking shortcuts, doesn't mean everyone else is.  :1hifu: 

Oh, and here is someone who played with Roger for more than a couple of years:

(Mike) Greenwell was asked whether any former Sox teammates used steroids. He did not answer the question, except to defend Roger Clemens.

"Someone said Roger Clemens might have showed signs," Greenwell said. "I will say this. Roger Clemens is the hardest-working man in baseball. I played with him for 12 years. I never saw anyone work harder. There was never any talk about any kind of steroid use or any kind of illegal drug use. And that's the unfortunate side of this, that some guys will get fingers pointed at them that don't deserve it."

----------


## Jack87

No smart ass I went to school with a current major league catcher... 

There's much more I could share, but I'm not out of confidentially...

Nice try though... 




> Lemmie guess your "source", John Marzano, right? I know John, and he is a loser. He blamed Roger for not sticking up for him when the Sox let him go. Truth is, he is a crappy catcher and an awful hitter who never belonged in the big leagues. A bullpen catcher, nothing more. If he juices, then why did his agent release his medical records for the last five years which showed that Clemens has tested negative for steroids on every single test? You need to stop with the lies, juiceboy. Just because you are too much of pansy to avoid taking shortcuts, doesn't mean everyone else is. 
> 
> Oh, and here is someone who played with Roger for more than a couple of years:
> 
> (Mike) Greenwell was asked whether any former Sox teammates used steroids. He did not answer the question, except to defend Roger Clemens.
> 
> "Someone said Roger Clemens might have showed signs," Greenwell said. "I will say this. Roger Clemens is the hardest-working man in baseball. I played with him for 12 years. I never saw anyone work harder. There was never any talk about any kind of steroid use or any kind of illegal drug use. And that's the unfortunate side of this, that some guys will get fingers pointed at them that don't deserve it."

----------


## Jack87

BTW rockerman21

You would happen to be the real Roger posting under some cute name?

If so I'm a fan...  :Wink/Grin:  If not I don't care, just find it funny you named John
Marzano a good old philly boy that just calls it like like he sees it, but it 
wasn't him I was referring too...  :Smilie: 

You can always hit my email button, as I say I believe in confidentially and 
always thought of the Rocket as one hell of a player... Still doesn't mean he
never used anabolics though... lol

----------


## Jack87

And if you believe Roger at his age pitches as good or better then 90% 
of all active major league pitchers without a little something to aid in his 
recovery between starts and help his strength then you must be crazy...

I guess you have no clue about the few companies that are in business
that cater to professional athletes in helping them pass drug tests even 
when they are on drugs at the time of the test?

You sould like some AA player that never made it to the Bigs and you are 
just pissed at the world... No I sure as shit never would have or could have 
come close, but that doesn't mean I have no idea what I'm talking about either...  :Wink:

----------


## lfrisbee

> And if you believe Roger at his age pitches as good or better then 90% 
> of all active major league pitchers without a little something to aid in his 
> recovery between starts and help his strength then you must be crazy...
> 
> I guess you have no clue about the few companies that are in business
> that cater to professional athletes in helping them pass drug tests even 
> when they are on drugs at the time of the test?
> 
> You sould like some AA player that never made it to the Bigs and you are 
> ...


Thank you Buff for keeping that crap confidential... We don't need a bunch more Canseco's running around.

----------


## Jack87

I would never throw names out there, but I think it's funny at Roger's
age and considering how well he still pitches that anyone could think
there's not something special in his orange juice... The guy is still a
freak and pitches better then almost all the younger guys with fresh
arms... 

I'm a fan of the Rocket, I love the guy... I think he's everything a major
league player should be... Attitude, Balls, Performs under Pressure, but 
I just can't stand to hear BS...

Let's face it alot of Major League pitchers use, not like I'm trying to
single him or any certain one out... Anyone that thinks otherwises is
just fooling themself...




> Thank you Buff for keeping that crap confidential... We don't need a bunch more Canseco's running around.

----------


## rocketman21

Like I said, just because a pussy like yourself can't get it done the right way(through hard work) doesn't mean everyone else takes short cuts. You are a liar, covering up for your own inadequacies by naming others. Yes, Roger did use something to help him get an edge, it was called Vioxx. And, like I said, why has he passed every single drug test in the past five years if he is such a heavy juicer? So keep your "info" to yourself, raisin-nuts. You are pathetic. You are the kid who cheated on tests in high school. You are the one who peeked during hide and go seek. And now you put crap in your body to make up for your inadequate mind and personality.  :Liar:  I don't suffer fools like you very well. When I hear about guys like you, I think about Lyle Alzado. Such a badass on the field, getting juiced up and mean. Then, a few years later, walking around with his wife's help looking like a stick figure. Your future in a nutshell. Enjoy it.

----------


## Jack87

You're a funny guy and that's the only reason I'm not going to ban 
you for being so immature by calling people pussies because you 
have nothing better to come back with... See you're kind of entertaining 
like one of those know it all guys at a party that just runs his mouth 
all night about tons of stuff and really knows next to nothing...

Do you even know anything about what you're talking about? 

Now how about keeping the flames out of it and tell us why you're so 
sure Roger has never or doesn't currently use anabolics with some 
intelligent debating or conversation? 

Can you handle that? 

And BTW what heavy Drug Testing are you talking about?

The past 5 years? What does that mean?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

MLB didn't even care about testing until this past year and only because
of the pressure put on them by Congress...

I'd love to have a intelligent convo with you, even though I'm already 
100% sure you are wrong... 




> Like I said, just because a pussy like yourself can't get it done the right way(through hard work) doesn't mean everyone else takes short cuts. You are a liar, covering up for your own inadequacies by naming others. Yes, Roger did use something to help him get an edge, it was called Vioxx. And, like I said, why has he passed every single drug test in the past five years if he is such a heavy juicer? So keep your "info" to yourself, raisin-nuts. You are pathetic. You are the kid who cheated on tests in high school. You are the one who peeked during hide and go seek. And now you put crap in your body to make up for your inadequate mind and personality.  I don't suffer fools like you very well. When I hear about guys like you, I think about Lyle Alzado. Such a badass on the field, getting juiced up and mean. Then, a few years later, walking around with his wife's help looking like a stick figure. Your future in a nutshell. Enjoy it.

----------


## Samson7

> Originally posted by: buff87
> 
> You're a funny guy and that's the only reason I'm not going to ban 
> you for being so immature by calling people pussies because you 
> have nothing better to come back with... See you're kind of entertaining 
> like one of those know it all guys at a party that just runs his mouth 
> all night about tons of stuff and really knows next to nothing...
> 
> Do you even know anything about what you're talking about? 
> ...



Couldnt agree with you more i actually have inside info about roger too... and dont forget this is a guy that bostons gm Dan Duquette got rid of in 96 or 97 because he had a severely declining fastball and loss of control. Duchette said he was at the end of his career. Then what happens? Clemens comes back and wins 5 cy youngs in the next 7 years. coincidence...i think not. Apretty good rule of thumb in baseball is that arms slow down when you get older, Clemens' arm has magically become faster and stronger. He has more stmina now as he did at 24 years old. Dude why get so offended anyways? Is roger your daddy or what? I dont see why you would get so worked up. And if you know him or something...all i can say is maybe you dont know him as well as you think.

----------


## Samson7

BTW im not critisizing the guys work ethic because i have seen his workout and it is insane. Not heavy weights but quite an insane workout none the less. but i know for a fact that more mlb players are juicing than many think. Just cause they are not busting out of their shirts doesnt mean they dont juice. These guys are professional athletes not body builders.

----------


## SprinterOne

> BTW im not critisizing the guys work ethic because i have seen his workout and it is insane. Not heavy weights but quite an insane workout none the less. but i know for a fact that more mlb players are juicing than many think. Just cause they are not busting out of their shirts doesnt mean they dont juice. These guys are professional athletes not body builders.


Ya, this seems to be the common misconception, that if an athlete hasn't gained crazy weight then they probably aren't juicing. And if they have gained crazy weight they must be juicing. When my Dad found out Raffy got busted he couldn't understand cause he wasn't big like Bonds. Fact is if you use the right substances you can get the advantages without the weight gain.

----------


## Jack87

Nice to hear someone else that's knows the real deal about things...
And I don't care what the Rocket uses, I love the dude, but anyone
thinking he's natural and doesn't use performance enhancers is insane...

Don't worry rocketman21 is just someone on a mission to call us all names
for having a different opinion and put us down.. Kind of funny actually cus
he's so damn wrong about what he's talking about... lol 





> Couldnt agree with you more i actually have inside info about roger too... and dont forget this is a guy that bostons gm Dan Duquette got rid of in 96 or 97 because he had a severely declining fastball and loss of control. Duchette said he was at the end of his career. Then what happens? Clemens comes back and wins 5 cy youngs in the next 7 years. coincidence...i think not. Apretty good rule of thumb in baseball is that arms slow down when you get older, Clemens' arm has magically become faster and stronger. He has more stmina now as he did at 24 years old. Dude why get so offended anyways? Is roger your daddy or what? I dont see why you would get so worked up. And if you know him or something...all i can say is maybe you dont know him as well as you think.

----------


## Samson7

> Originally Posted by buff87
> 
> Nice to hear someone else that's knows the real deal about things...
> And I don't care what the Rocket uses, I love the dude, but anyone
> thinking he's natural and doesn't use performance enhancers is insane...
> 
> Don't worry rocketman21 is just someone on a mission to call us all names
> for having a different opinion and put us down.. Kind of funny actually cus
> he's so damn wrong about what he's talking about... lol



Well i also have a source on the inside as do you. I dont really like clemens personally but it obviously has nothing to do with juice since many pro juice now. I just think he is an a**hole. But I do have to say he is one of the greatest pitchers to play the game. Dont know why Rocketman21 is so passionate about this and acting a fool for something he knows less about then he thinks he does...

buff you ever play ball you seem to know quite a bit about it?

----------


## rocketman21

Buff could never play ball, he doesn't have the heart for it. I am so passionate about this because I do know Clemens personally, and I can tell you that he has never taken an illegal substance to get ahead. Now, he has taken things that became illegal LATER in baseball, but when they went on the list he stopped using(because it was given to him by the team physician). You guys can have your little bits of inside info, but you don't know shit. You couldn't hang with Roger for 10 minutes on one of his workouts, and that's a fact. He has passed every MLB drug test given to him in the last five years(7 total, at random intervals during the season). He's never had a test come back with a positive in his career. If you took your head out of your ass, you'd see that he had a good season in 1996, but his team didn't score any runs for him. How can you be in decline and stike out 20 batters in one game for the second time in your career? The fact is, the reason Roger is so dominant now is that he has developed a better arsenal of pitches to compliment his fastball. And no, his arm hasn't gotten stronger with age. When was the last game he completed? 2003. He usually only goes seven innings now. Sound like he's stronger to you? He can still bring the occasional 97mph fastball, but it's rare. He stays at around 90-92 now, and throws a splitter, slider, and changeup to set up his fastball. He has better location now than he did before(something that steroids can't help). You want to see what an athlete on the gas looks like in his 40's, look at Bonds. His body is falling apart. Now look at Roger. Does it look like his body is falling apart? No. He is simply making accomodations for his age. Face facts, you don't know what you are talking about. Roger is in such good shape because he has the best doctors, a killer workout regime, and a fitness trainer wife who keeps him in check. If every major leaguer had a wife like Debbie, they wouldn't need steroids. I'm done here, so go ahead and post your little theories if you want, but you have no proof whatsoever of what you say. You are trolls, nothing more. I hate to see good men like Roger get taken down by idiots who are jealous of his ability.

----------


## Samson7

> Buff could never play ball, he doesn't have the heart for it. I am so passionate about this because I do know Clemens personally, and I can tell you that he has never taken an illegal substance to get ahead. Now, he has taken things that became illegal LATER in baseball, but when they went on the list he stopped using(because it was given to him by the team physician). You guys can have your little bits of inside info, but you don't know shit. You couldn't hang with Roger for 10 minutes on one of his workouts, and that's a fact. He has passed every MLB drug test given to him in the last five years(7 total, at random intervals during the season). He's never had a test come back with a positive in his career. If you took your head out of your ass, you'd see that he had a good season in 1996, but his team didn't score any runs for him. How can you be in decline and stike out 20 batters in one game for the second time in your career? The fact is, the reason Roger is so dominant now is that he has developed a better arsenal of pitches to compliment his fastball. And no, his arm hasn't gotten stronger with age. When was the last game he completed? 2003. He usually only goes seven innings now. Sound like he's stronger to you? He can still bring the occasional 97mph fastball, but it's rare. He stays at around 90-92 now, and throws a splitter, slider, and changeup to set up his fastball. He has better location now than he did before(something that steroids can't help). *You want to see what an athlete on the gas looks like in his 40's, look at Bonds. His body is falling apart. Now look at Roger. Does it look like his body is falling apart? No. He is simply making accomodations for his age. Face facts, you don't know what you are talking about. Roger is in such good shape because he has the best doctors, a killer workout regime, and a fitness trainer wife who keeps him in check. If every major leaguer had a wife like Debbie, they wouldn't need steroids. I'm done here, so go ahead and post your little theories if you want, but you have no proof whatsoever of what you say. You are trolls, nothing more. I hate to see good men like Roger get taken down by idiots who are jealous of his ability.*




No i disagree look at plamiero he isnt busting out of his shirt like bonds yet he is juicing and has been since 1992

----------


## Jack87

Never said I did and how about you click that little email button when you
have time and email me since you have so much you want to say or I can
just contact you? I don't think the board needs any more of your posts
taking up server space... You're actually one of the more strange guys 
I've ever seen from the boards... So I guess you have my curiousity up... 

Funny how you can judge me and have no clue about me other then some
scene name... Kind of says alot about you doesn't it?...  :Wink: 

BTW the guy I speak of knows Roger personally, and I think he knows a
great deal more then you could ever know about the whole behind the
scene things in MLB, which is why you look so foolish to me...

I've done stated I'm a big fan of Clemens you stupid ass... And I also
stated I never would have had the ability to play pro ball... What kind
of idiot are you? 




> Buff could never play ball, he doesn't have the heart for it. I am so passionate about this because I do know Clemens personally, and I can tell you that he has never taken an illegal substance to get ahead. Now, he has taken things that became illegal LATER in baseball, but when they went on the list he stopped using(because it was given to him by the team physician). You guys can have your little bits of inside info, but you don't know shit. You couldn't hang with Roger for 10 minutes on one of his workouts, and that's a fact. He has passed every MLB drug test given to him in the last five years(7 total, at random intervals during the season). He's never had a test come back with a positive in his career. If you took your head out of your ass, you'd see that he had a good season in 1996, but his team didn't score any runs for him. How can you be in decline and stike out 20 batters in one game for the second time in your career? The fact is, the reason Roger is so dominant now is that he has developed a better arsenal of pitches to compliment his fastball. And no, his arm hasn't gotten stronger with age. When was the last game he completed? 2003. He usually only goes seven innings now. Sound like he's stronger to you? He can still bring the occasional 97mph fastball, but it's rare. He stays at around 90-92 now, and throws a splitter, slider, and changeup to set up his fastball. He has better location now than he did before(something that steroids can't help). You want to see what an athlete on the gas looks like in his 40's, look at Bonds. His body is falling apart. Now look at Roger. Does it look like his body is falling apart? No. He is simply making accomodations for his age. Face facts, you don't know what you are talking about. Roger is in such good shape because he has the best doctors, a killer workout regime, and a fitness trainer wife who keeps him in check. If every major leaguer had a wife like Debbie, they wouldn't need steroids. I'm done here, so go ahead and post your little theories if you want, but you have no proof whatsoever of what you say. You are trolls, nothing more. I hate to see good men like Roger get taken down by idiots who are jealous of his ability.

----------


## Jack87

Never played ball at any level like that, just know a few guys that have
and one that still is playing in MLB without going into it to much... I like
Roger, yeah he acts as ass sometimes, but I kind of like a guy with that
much attitude and fire... 




> Well i also have a source on the inside as do you. I dont really like clemens personally but it obviously has nothing to do with juice since many pro juice now. I just think he is an a**hole. But I do have to say he is one of the greatest pitchers to play the game. Dont know why Rocketman21 is so passionate about this and acting a fool for something he knows less about then he thinks he does...
> 
> buff you ever play ball you seem to know quite a bit about it?

----------


## rocketman21

> Funny how you can judge me and have no clue about me other then some
> scene name... Kind of says alot about you doesn't it?...


Funny, sounds like what you are doing with Roger. Talking about someone you don't even know. Says a lot about you, doesn't it?

----------


## Jack87

Exactly, the media is the ones that play that card of guys breaking down
means they're the only ones using anabolics, when that is so far off base
it's not even funny... Steroids DO NOT cause you to break down... There's
to many other factors involved to place all that blame on steroids...

But guys like rocketman21 know it all and can't begin to think outside the
box... It's clear he's an expert on anabolics and how to tell those that do 
and do not use them...  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 




> [/B]
> 
> No i disagree look at plamiero he isnt busting out of his shirt like bonds yet he is juicing and has been since 1992

----------


## Baseball_centerfield

he juices

----------


## rocketman21

> Exactly, the media is the ones that play that card of guys breaking down
> means they're the only ones using anabolics, when that is so far off base
> it's not even funny... Steroids DO NOT cause you to break down... There's
> to many other factors involved to place all that blame on steroids...
> 
> But guys like rocketman21 know it all and can't begin to think outside the
> box... It's clear he's an expert on anabolics and how to tell those that do 
> and do not use them...


I don't claim to know a damn thing about steroids. I can only speak for one person. And tell Lyle Alzado, Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, and Jose Canseco that steroids won't break down your body. Oh, you can't. They're all either injured, retired, or dead!

----------


## Jack87

I'm just a realist... I'm a fan of Roger, sure enuf am, but I also know what
really goes on too. I guess your dad is probably the one that knows Roger 
and not you right? Because your age doesn't exactly match up... So what
Roger is a friend of your family then? OK fine, so I can see you defending
the guy, guess that's what you're doing...

But let me ask you this... Do you really think that Roger would tell the 
truth about using or not to 99% of the world including friends?

Truth is most Pro Athletes would never admit to using anything because
of the way the general public and even close friends would judge them..
There's alot you think you know that you don't know...




> Funny, sounds like what you are doing with Roger. Talking about someone you don't even know. Says a lot about you, doesn't it?

----------


## Jack87

Man oh man do you even know the rumoured stories of Alzado?
You're a little to young for all that cus it goes back pretty far...
You need to use a little Yahoo or Google search and read up on
the things that most likely caused his death... Read about the
kind of HGH he was rumoured to be using at the time made from
the pituitary gland from human cadavers... Not the same as the
stuff you find readily available now... 

Far as the rest, you can't place the blame on steroids alone... You
have to look at their training programs, not to mention a ton of other
things... Have you ever been injuried?

I have...

I never felt stronger when it happened and torn the shit outta my rotator
cuff keeping me out of the gym for almost 5-6 months and I can honestly
say I did everything right, warmed up, worked up to my heavier sets and
never had a hint of a injury before and it just happened...

Injuries can and do happen out of nowhere bro, some are just lucky and
don't get injuried... 




> I don't claim to know a damn thing about steroids. I can only speak for one person. And tell Lyle Alzado, Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, and Jose Canseco that steroids won't break down your body. Oh, you can't. They're all either injured, retired, or dead!

----------


## Jack87

Of course he does... As do many more then you think...

But some guys have some reason to swear they don't.... lol




> he juices

----------


## Samson7

> I don't claim to know a damn thing about steroids. I can only speak for one person. And tell Lyle Alzado, Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, and Jose Canseco that steroids won't break down your body. Oh, you can't. They're all either injured, retired, or dead!



Um this may not be too clear to you but it is to me...Bonds isnt hurt that bad he could come back and play right now, he is trying to th media attention for his steroid use . He knows if Palmiero got busted he could too. He is laying low and letting all the sauce clear his system and then he is going to come back next year and never be the player he was because he is not going to juice anymore. It will take him 2 or 3 years to break Hank's record when it would only take one season on juice. But he is going to break it and say test me im clean....thus making the record * free.

As far as Lyle Azado, there is more proof (from his dr. that juice had nothing to with the brain cancer). And as for Mcgwire and Canseco juice just gets the blame...have you ever thought that they are professional athletes and after 16-17 years the body breaks down roids or not. How many people have had injuries that forced them into retirement without steroids ??? Alot. It happens to almost all athletes at some point in time.

----------


## Jack87

Exactly.. Long careers alone is what causes all the wear and tear on their
bodies. Happens all the time in alot of sports, but it's just to easy for the media and those misinformed to blame the so-called evil steroids for the
cause of everything...  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 




> And as for Mcgwire and Canseco juice just gets the blame...have you ever thought that they are professional athletes and after 16-17 years the body breaks down roids or not. How many people have had injuries that forced them into retirement without steroids??? Alot. It happens to almost all athletes at some point in time.

----------


## QuieTSToRM33

> *Like I said, just because a pussy like yourself can't get it done the right way(through hard work) doesn't mean everyone else takes short cuts.*


WTF are u doing on this board then ? ... check the title of the board ... if u dont like it ... go somewhere else ... we dont need ur negative energy around here 

all uve done in this thread is act like a lil wise ass ... doin nothing but put down other members .... can u act like an adult and carry on an intelligent conversation without ur lil teenage hormones getting in the way ??

 :Aabanhimlikeabitch:

----------


## chest6

long thread..i think he might.he is def. not fat

----------


## rocketman21

> WTF are u doing on this board then ? ... check the title of the board ... if u dont like it ... go somewhere else ... we dont need ur negative energy around here 
> 
> all uve done in this thread is act like a lil wise ass ... doin nothing but put down other members .... can u act like an adult and carry on an intelligent conversation without ur lil teenage hormones getting in the way ??


Check my age again, buddy. And you might want to take some of your own advice. Like I've said before, noone has offered any proof on this board that Rocket juices. Noone here knows him personally like I do. I've heard nothing but lies from post number one. You are right, I don't juice. I am in decent shape and I don't feel the need to overcompensate by destroying my body in such a way. I mean what I say when I called juicers pussies. There are no shortcuts in life. You do things the right way or you get burned. You don't know the long-term damage that can occur with steroid use . No study has been able to document what this shit can do to your body. Early signs are clear: hair loss, testicular atrophy, prone to poor liver function, kidney disease, thinning of the walls of the aorta, and cancer. All that so you can have a few extra muscles and save yourself the extra work. I pity you, because you cannot help but believe that everyone else must take shortcuts because you need to. This is a board for discussion of steroids , not praise. So, ban me if you wish. But until you come out and give proof that can back up your claims, you are liars in my book. You already cheat, so lying isn't much of a stretch is it?

----------


## Samson7

> Check my age again, buddy. And you might want to take some of your own advice. Like I've said before, noone has offered any proof on this board that Rocket juices. Noone here knows him personally like I do. I've heard nothing but lies from post number one. You are right, I don't juice. I am in decent shape and I don't feel the need to overcompensate by destroying my body in such a way. I mean what I say when I called juicers pussies. There are no shortcuts in life. You do things the right way or you get burned. You don't know the long-term damage that can occur with steroid use. No study has been able to document what this shit can do to your body. Early signs are clear: hair loss, testicular atrophy, prone to poor liver function, kidney disease, thinning of the walls of the aorta, and cancer. All that so you can have a few extra muscles and save yourself the extra work. I pity you, because you cannot help but believe that everyone else must take shortcuts because you need to. This is a board for discussion of steroids, not praise. So, ban me if you wish. But until you come out and give proof that can back up your claims, you are liars in my book. You already cheat, so lying isn't much of a stretch is it?



No one has given any proof that he doesnt juice either. What does you "knowing him" have anything to do him juicing or not. Are you with him every second of every day. Do you think if he juiced he would tell anyone with all the consequences that sould come from it. He wouldnt even tell a teammate if he juiced much less you. Do you think Palmiero told a bunch of people he juiced? Do you think he was open about that?? Hell no. His wife didnt even know...I think a wife is a lot closer to the player than you are to Clemens. I mean seriously...what are you his towel boy or something, give me a break. Whether he juices or juiced or whatever, that is no ones business but his...not even yours. Dont be fooled to think that you are important enough to him to where he would tell you if he used steroids or not.
Oh and by the way show me some proof about all those things that happen to steroid users. There has been no studies done to prove or disprove any of this...so shut the hell up you sound like a dumbass who has been listening to the news too much. You just repeat anything the media says, which makes you sound stupid. As far as all steroid users being pussies...well i hope you dont like professional sports because i hate to break it to you but most of them juice. At least to some extent. I said this before and ill say it again, i think Rogers workout is insane and he works out harder than anyone but that doesnt mean he couldnt have juiced. Face it, you are naive as to whats going on or what went on. Oh and if hate steroid users so much why are you on a site sponsered by Steroid.com??? You are on a board to learn about steroids but you think they are all pussies???  :Liar:  

Dude, you are an uneducated dumbass. Trust me as well as you think you know Roger you really dont know him that good. Whether he juiced or not, dont hold your breathe to think he would tell you anything. You just kiss his ass  :Asskiss:  because he is everything you want to be and never will. I hear there is a thing on Roger in Sports Illusrated next week...you better go get it and some lube and you jizz towel.  :1hifu:

----------


## rocketman21

> No one has given any proof that he doesnt juice either


Silly me, I go by the old "Innocent until proven guilty" policy. What a dunce I am.




> Oh and by the way show me some proof about all those things that happen to steroid users. There has been no studies done to prove or disprove any of this...so shut the hell up you sound like a dumbass who has been listening to the news too much.


Heavens! Being informed is a bad thing?! What a fool I am. Thank you for setting me on the right path. I've only gone by the numerous studies conducted around the world about the short-term affects of steroid use . Here are a few...

Backne- Severe back acne
Balding- I'm sure there are ladies that LOOOVE the cueball look.
Severe Rage- Roid rage is very real
Feminization- Men's testicles tend to shrink and many will form "bitch tits." Nothing like a guy with huge knockers, eh?
Heart Disease- Steroids increase the level of cholesterol, which sticks to the wallls of the main arteries.
Stunted Growth- If started early enough, steroids will actually impede natural growth spurts.
Headaches- The increased testosterone can cause headaches, not unlike a woman who is going through PMS.
Liver Failure- Pelosis Hapatitis can occur with prolonged steroid use, due to fatty buildup in the liver.
Impotence- With prolonged use, the desire for sex will most likely decrease, as will the man's ability to get arroused.
High Blood Pressure- Can cause insomnia, nosebleeds, apnea, and dizziness.
Nausea and Vommiting- Self Explainatory
Water Retention- Causes a bloted look and can put added strain on one's heart.

OK, now show me the long-term study that says there are NO side-effects of steroid use. I would love to read it. 

http://www.steroidabuse.org/

Now, you might say that this only pertains to abusers. However, prolonged use dulls the effects of steroids , causing users to need more of the substance in order to achieve the same results. So, abuse is really not an option here. Much like any other drug, constant use will lead to abuse.

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## Jack87

All I can do is sit back and laugh at most of this...

rocketman21 you are to entertaining for me to Ban or I would have already done it...  :Wink: 

You just amuze me with the way you think...  :Smilie:  And damn is it ever wrong...  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Like Roger would ever tell you or anyone you're related to if he does or 
does not use anabolics to enhance his performance in sports... lol

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## Jack87

All 9 of your posts are in this one thread... lol

You have anything else you want to talk about or is 
Roger the only thing that gets you going?  :Smilie:

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## rocketman21

> All I can do is sit back and laugh at most of this...
> 
> rocketman21 you are to entertaining for me to Ban or I would have already done it... 
> 
> You just amuze me with the way you think...  And damn is it ever wrong... 
> 
> Like Roger would ever tell you or anyone you're related to if he does or 
> does not use anabolics to enhance his performance in sports... lol


You still haven't given proof that Roger is a juicer, You still haven't provided a single study that says steroids have no long term side effects. You can laugh all you want, but the fact is, cueball, that you are a liar. You will die very soon, and very painfully. But hey, at least you will leave a swollen corpse behind. Try working on your inner self and maybe you will do something worthy of being remembered.

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## Samson7

> You still haven't given proof that Roger is a juicer, You still haven't provided a single study that says steroids have no long term side effects. You can laugh all you want, but the fact is, cueball, that you are a liar. You will die very soon, and very painfully. But hey, at least you will leave a swollen corpse behind. Try working on your inner self and maybe you will do something worthy of being remembered.



DUMBASS...cant you see what you are saying??? The same goes for you!!! You cant give us any proof that he doesnt juice, you cant give us that anabolics have long term negative effects. You are living on the coat tails of someone who is great...you yourself are not. You act like you are the one who is a profesional baseball player. Just dont act like you are the one who is done all the work roger has...you are living off the greatness of another individual. You have done nothing in you own life you are a loser for caring so much. Why dont you go out and do something great with your own life.  :Aajack:

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## Samson7

> Silly me, I go by the old "Innocent until proven guilty" policy. What a dunce I am.
> 
> 
> 
> Heavens! Being informed is a bad thing?! What a fool I am. Thank you for setting me on the right path. I've only gone by the numerous studies conducted around the world about the short-term affects of steroid use . Here are a few...
> 
> *Backne- Severe back acne
> Balding- I'm sure there are ladies that LOOOVE the cueball look.
> Severe Rage- Roid rage is very real
> ...



that is mostly hear say from the media. A good piece of advice is believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see. Plus ask roger...that stuff only happens when you ABUSE anabolics not when they are used correctly. When used correctly you win 7 cy youngs and are still throwing as good at 43 as you did at 23...  :1hifu:

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## Jack87

You little man are about the biggest joke I've ever seen on any board 
in all my time of being on them... I know a bro that caught for him you 
loser and that's the end of my story... You don't even know him you 
dad most likely does if that is even true... You're not even smart enuf 
to keep your info off the internet where it can be found in less then 5 
mins by anyone, even me and I'm no expert and you want to insult me
and other members of the board?

Yeah your wish to be Banned is coming real soon...  :Wink: 




> You still haven't given proof that Roger is a juicer, You still haven't provided a single study that says steroids have no long term side effects. You can laugh all you want, but the fact is, cueball, that you are a liar. You will die very soon, and very painfully. But hey, at least you will leave a swollen corpse behind. Try working on your inner self and maybe you will do something worthy of being remembered.

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## Jack87

BTW Brian I know after I ban you you'll just be back under a new name
posting the same way, so it's not like Banning you solves anything, but 
you are just such a punk there's no other way of dealing with a loser like 
you...

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## Jack87

Bro as much as I agree with you, there's no getting thru to this loser, so
it's a waste of time and all he wants is people to react to his posts... He'll
be gone soon enuf and will probably sign up under some other slick name
that ties in with Roger...  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 




> that is mostly hear say from the media. A good piece of advice is believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see. Plus ask roger...that stuff only happens when you ABUSE anabolics not when they are used correctly. When used correctly you win 7 cy youngs and are still throwing as good at 43 as you did at 23...

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## Samson7

> Bro as much as I agree with you, there's no getting thru to this loser, so
> it's a waste of time and all he wants is people to react to his posts... He'll
> be gone soon enuf and will probably sign up under some other slick name
> that ties in with Roger...



haha ya hell be back as iwannascrewroger21.

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## Samson7

wow that was wierd while i was typing that post you changed from a mod to a super mod...congrats bro

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## rocketman21

Bro? What, are you trying to be 20 now? You're still a liar in my book. Gimmie a name and show me a picture of you with this "bro" that caught Roger. Otherwise, you are a liar. I don't have to prove Roger doesn't juice. He is innocent until proven guilty, remember? I am so glad that you found my info on the net. Whooptie freakin doo! It's not like I hide it or anything. I've run websites for a few years, I have my own website to play with. And I teach. My life is an open book, buddy boy. Ban me if you wish, I won't come back. I don't cheat, remember? That's your department. But banning me will only prove what I've said all along: you take short cuts in life for everything. Rather than deal with me, you would rather ban me? Shows your mettle, doesn't it? And Samson, you say I have a "thing" for Rocket, how about your "thing" for Buff? Jesus, just blow him and get it over with. You keep saying the same thing, but you have yet to give me a name or offer any proof. Samson didn't even know what year he left the Red Sox! And he claims to have "inside" info? Right. Hey Samson, if one study claims that steroids have ill effects, then I would most likely dismiss it. But when hundreds of studies say the same thing...I give it serious thought. Like I said, show me the study that says steroids have no ill effects. And all steroid use leads to abuse. It is unavoidable. The more you take, the more your body builds a tollerance. It's just like any other drug. You guys are pathetic. I only joined this board because I heard about this topic from a friend. I signed up to defend the name of a friend. So go ahead, ban me. I think I have shown you for the liar that you really are.

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## Samson7

> Bro? What, are you trying to be 20 now? You're still a liar in my book. Gimmie a name and show me a picture of you with this "bro" that caught Roger. Otherwise, you are a liar. I don't have to prove Roger doesn't juice. He is innocent until proven guilty, remember? I am so glad that you found my info on the net. Whooptie freakin doo! It's not like I hide it or anything. I've run websites for a few years, I have my own website to play with. And I teach. My life is an open book, buddy boy. Ban me if you wish, I won't come back. I don't cheat, remember? That's your department. But banning me will only prove what I've said all along: you take short cuts in life for everything. Rather than deal with me, you would rather ban me? Shows your mettle, doesn't it? And Samson, you say I have a "thing" for Rocket, how about your "thing" for Buff? Jesus, just blow him and get it over with. You keep saying the same thing, but you have yet to give me a name or offer any proof. Samson didn't even know what year he left the Red Sox! And he claims to have "inside" info? Right. Hey Samson, if one study claims that steroids have ill effects, then I would most likely dismiss it. But when hundreds of studies say the same thing...I give it serious thought. Like I said, show me the study that says steroids have no ill effects. And all steroid use leads to abuse. It is unavoidable. The more you take, the more your body builds a tollerance. It's just like any other drug. You guys are pathetic. I only joined this board because I heard about this topic from a friend. I signed up to defend the name of a friend. So go ahead, ban me. I think I have shown you for the liar that you really are.



Again you offer no proof that we are liars...we are entitled to our opinion as are you. My opinion is that Roger juices...yours is that he doesnt. No matter how much we argue you are not going to be able to prove that he has never used anabolics. As for not knowing the year he left the red sox my bad i didnt know and i threw out the year...that wasnt the point dumbass. Did the point of the story go over your head??? Listen dude im going to go out on a limb and say you have never been a part of Professional Baseball otherwise you would know what goes on behind the scenes. I respect Roger...He is a great pitcher and a great family guy. As far as I have heard he would never think about cheating on his wife like 85% of the players do...he is a class act when it comes to that. But that says nothing. People make decisions that are going to affect their career, I firmly believe he has made a decision to use anabolics. Again that is my opinion. I think he did it to extend his career and secure the future of his family...very noble. Whether he did or not you are not going to be able to prove anything. Let me ask you a question...did you get a chance to read Jose Canseco's book. He has a part in there about Roger asking him about steroids . Which ones he could take...what doses and so on. Explain that. Oh wait let me do it for you...Jose Canseco is a liar. Sorry bro everyone tried that when the book came out and so far he is three for three. He has no reason to lie about any of that either. Dude just face it you dont know as much about him as you think. 
As far as me blowing buff...sorry bro. Dont try to come back at me with the same thing i said to you about Roger. Be original one time. God gave you a brain, use it. Oh...or maybe thats what Roger would have said so you had to also. Dude get a life of your own and quit wishing you were roger. Have you ever seen that movie the Fan, it has Deniro and snipes in it. If you havent, rent it and you will see what you are like. You are crazy. Im sure roger has a great life and you wish that was you but let it go and move on with your life. Your life, not his.

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## rocketman21

> Again you offer no proof that we are liars...


I don't need to. What country are YOU from?




> we are entitled to our opinion as are you. My opinion is that Roger juices...yours is that he doesnt.


Wait, I thought you had insider knowledge that he juices. Now it's just an opinion? Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. Unfortunately, you are not simply entitled to an opinion. Without fact, it is just liable and nothing more. 




> No matter how much we argue you are not going to be able to prove that he has never used anabolics.


Once again, kiddo, I don't have to. In any court in the land, it is up to the accusers to prove their case. Try taking an American Government course sometime.




> Listen dude im going to go out on a limb and say you have never been a part of Professional Baseball otherwise you would know what goes on behind the scenes.


Never said I was naive to the fact that many ballplayers are on the gas. All I am saying is that I know one who is not.




> Let me ask you a question...did you get a chance to read Jose Canseco's book. He has a part in there about Roger asking him about steroids. Which ones he could take...what doses and so on. Explain that. Oh wait let me do it for you...Jose Canseco is a liar. Sorry bro everyone tried that when the book came out and so far he is three for three. He has no reason to lie about any of that either. Dude just face it you dont know as much about him as you think.


I did the read the book, and Jose said that he has NEVER seen Roger do steroids , nor has Roger admitted doing them. He also said that Roger joked about needing a "B12" shot, whiich is code for juice. However, Canseco also went on to say that while Clemens knew a lot about steroids, that he wasn't sure what they could do for pitchers. So please, do not paraphrase to meet your own needs.




> As far as me blowing buff...sorry bro. Dont try to come back at me with the same thing i said to you about Roger. Be original one time. God gave you a brain, use it.


I call them like I see them. I am at least defending someone that I know. You are defending a mod on some steroid forum? I do have a brain kiddo, and it wouldn't take much for me to bring you to your knees with simple words. So please, stop running around in circles. I don't need to prove a damn thing to you because I am not the accuser...you are.

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## Jack87

Strange thing indeed... lol 

Thanks bro  :Smilie: 




> wow that was wierd while i was typing that post you changed from a mod to a super mod...congrats bro

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## Jack87

Brisn how old are you? Are you really 27 or is that BS? Why do you
act so young and so naive about things and why are you so damn
stuck on Roger Clemens? Jesus you come off like a stalker type... 

By caught for Roger I meant someone that in his years in the Major
caught for him, not catch him sticking a needle in his ass... Guys
that play Major League ball together tend to talk about things they
wouldn't talk about with anyone outside their profession...

You at least can figure that much out right?

And I would never name who it is I know that played with Roger, but
I know what I'm talking about with no doubts... I don't care what the
guys does, I think he's a hell of a pitcher PERIOD, but I'm not naive
like you and know a few more things then you end of story... 

And I love this I lie and cheat thing... I don't play Professional Sports...

How am I cheating? And what am I lying about? You make no sense...

Maybe one day when Roger's career is long over and if you actually do
know him once you get him out drinking and ask him maybe then he'll
tell you alot of things you don't know about now... 

Damn you are one annoying sumbitch to deal with... 




> Bro? What, are you trying to be 20 now? You're still a liar in my book. Gimmie a name and show me a picture of you with this "bro" that caught Roger. Otherwise, you are a liar. I don't have to prove Roger doesn't juice. He is innocent until proven guilty, remember? I am so glad that you found my info on the net. Whooptie freakin doo! It's not like I hide it or anything. I've run websites for a few years, I have my own website to play with. And I teach. My life is an open book, buddy boy. Ban me if you wish, I won't come back. I don't cheat, remember? That's your department. But banning me will only prove what I've said all along: you take short cuts in life for everything. Rather than deal with me, you would rather ban me? Shows your mettle, doesn't it? And Samson, you say I have a "thing" for Rocket, how about your "thing" for Buff? Jesus, just blow him and get it over with. You keep saying the same thing, but you have yet to give me a name or offer any proof. Samson didn't even know what year he left the Red Sox! And he claims to have "inside" info? Right. Hey Samson, if one study claims that steroids have ill effects, then I would most likely dismiss it. But when hundreds of studies say the same thing...I give it serious thought. Like I said, show me the study that says steroids have no ill effects. And all steroid use leads to abuse. It is unavoidable. The more you take, the more your body builds a tollerance. It's just like any other drug. You guys are pathetic. I only joined this board because I heard about this topic from a friend. I signed up to defend the name of a friend. So go ahead, ban me. I think I have shown you for the liar that you really are.

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## Jack87

Get it all out now Brian, because shortly I'll be closing this thread
as it adds nothing to the board at all...

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## Samson7

ok well why would he joke about going to get a b12 shot if he wasnt juicing??? You think juice would do nothing for a pitcher?? You are out of your mind. You are not worth the time and energy. I hope for your sake that roger never gets caught juicing...i know it would break your soft little heart. I know you would be devastated and probably kill yourself because your reason for being did something you didnt know of. Just dont think that you are that important to Roger to where he would tell you every minute detail of his life. You mean nothing to him...you are just another booty call for him. By Roger's Bitch.

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## rocketman21

By caught, Buff, I meant act as a catcher. Not, caching him with a needle in his ass. In baseball vernacular, catchers don't catch for a pitcher, they catch a pitcher. But, being so deep into the world of baseball like you claim to be, you knew that already. And I certainly hope your DOB is incorrect, because you write like one of my middle school kids. And Samson, I think we've shown that you are the soft one. You are the one who resorted to lies in this thread, along with Buff. And about the B12 joke, it iwas a joke being made from an older pitcher who wished that he was weak enough to take a shortcut and juice to help him get through a season. Unfortunately, his mother raised him to believe that you don't get anywhere in life by taking shortcuts. Go ahead and close the thread. I would love that. Because for once, I agree with you. Lying about a pitching legend in order to mask your own inadequacies does nothing to serve this board. So please, remove the thread and that way we won't have balding, impotent, soft-hearted cheaters talking trash about real men.

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## Jack87

Glad you had your last words Brian... Now I can close this thread
that probably should have been closed a longtime ago... Maybe 1
day if you really do know "The Rocket" as you claim you'll know him
well enuf that he'll tell you a few things... 

Funny how I made it clear I respect the shit out of the guy as a
Major League Pitcher and you still rode his jock like some strange
fan, not like someone that knows him as you claim...

Anyway this is a dead issue, I know the truth alone with many
other and honestly I don't see an issue with him or any Major
League player enhancing their performance... Maybe one day
we can talk Pro sports for real Brain and I can clue you in on
a few things...

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