# MEMBERS EXPERIENCES > MEMBER'S CYCLE RESULTS >  12 week cycle Dbol, Tren-e, and Test-e

## objective33

Haters gonna hate.

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## OnTheSauce

what am i reading? you're a virgin? 20 yrs old, looking like that? you must be the most socially akward person on the planet. I was steadily smashing girls in high school being a 5'11 155lb twig. Come on bro. quit  :Aajack:  and go talk to some girls. from your before pic #1 you look between 9-10% bf as well

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## Maka

Welcome to AR !
"- 20 years old " and you already pined yourself?
You are destroying your body (internal).
My advice is stop cycle, *Start reading* and create another thread 4/5 years from now.

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## objective33

Day 3. Off day. I'm not sure if its the confidence, tren paranoia or girls can read guys with raging testosterone levels but I noticed more chicks looking my way then usual. Hopefully when real gains start I will be confident enough to approach some ladies. 

Gains..noticing more fullness in muscles, but chugging 3L of water and mouth still dry and thirsty.

I'm pretty sensitive to things I put in body but I' m willing to go through great deals of pain to gain muscle at all costs. 

Back and biceps tomorrow! 

Now or never for roids bro while people out wasting money on alcohol, I'm using it for research chemicals. I might not have the money or time to commit to this when I'm 25.

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## objective33

Day 4. - Back and Biceps 

My quads and adductors were still sore from leg day, I could barely walk up the stairs to the gym. Doing deadlifts was out of the question, so I did Rack pulls instead, and got up to 485 x 1. Going 500+ next week  :Smilie: . Rest of workout was good, but I'm afraid I'll be maxing the close grip cable rows by as early as next week because it only goes up to 295 at my gym. Looks like I'll have to switch from explosive close grip rows to slower, controlled reps. 

Noticing a bit of water bloat in the face and muscles. Not much, but people are starting to take notice of my raw intensity in the gym. I really am on another level physically and mentally then most guys in the gym. Great mood today, and getting more confident and sociable by the day. Had a few good looking girls looking my way, so I hope to have the confidence to approach some ladies next week. 

Can't wait until the tren and test e kick in  :Smilie: .

Shoulders tomorrow, but back is kind of sore so I may due high volume, lower intensity tomorrow but after I get a good night sleep I'll see how I'm feeling  :Smilie: .

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## Armykid93

Welcome to the board dude. You're around my age. You really should wait and do some research

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## DeadlyD

That would really suck if using all that gear fvct up your endo system for good! .... Before you actually got to use your d**k !!!

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## Armykid93

> That would really suck if using all that gear fvct up your endo system for good! .... Before you actually got to use your d**k !!!


For sure lol

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## objective33

]This isn't even relatively that much gear, done plenty of reading and plenty of guys that are pro's and what not are blast and crusing 1000 ml of test e a week or more.

I've done 2 cycles and I know what I am doing. I've done hours upon hours of researching, and I understand the risks and side effects and how to deal with all of them. 

None of you guys have any idea how bad I want this. I may not have the best genetics, I may not have the best lifestyle coming from a low-mid income family. I've lead a pretty rough life, and looking at where I am now, and where I will be in 5 years due to solely my willpower and work ethic, it is worth all the pain, suffering, and adversity I've had to overcome just because people tell me "I'm different" or "slow". I've got to where I am with little support from anyone except for a few close friends I've met this year at school with similar goals as mine. Nothing else in the entire world matters to me right now except getting my education done, and my fitness goals. I know, when I am in the gym I am working harder than 98% of the people in there. I yell and scream as I push through the pain of my heavy sets as everyone around me stares, and not a single care in the world is given. 

I can't even put it into words...how dedicated I am to this. I am not competing in bodybuilding or powerlifting, I lift weights because it is my life, and I love the adrenaline rush. Only need so much money, material wealth doesn't even matter to me anymore, nothing else really matters except the iron and the books. I don't care what anyone on here says, or what anyone tries to tell me in real life, I have so much heart and dedication to this...I don't even know how to put it in words. I've never been a religious person, but when I am in the gym it is the equivalent of me being in a church...I've took this all to a spiritual level that is hard to explain. All I can do when I'm not in the gym, is visualize my next workout and how I want to push myself even harder, and harder, and harder. Eat, eat, eat, gym, eat,eat,eat, chugging 3L water everywhere I go, my bottle does not leave my side. 

Day 5. Shoulders and high volume ab work 

Great workout, saw intensity even further increased today. My muscles were swelling with blood, and I was exhausted after my workout. Getting a bit of a moon face, more bloat and mass packing on quickly but it is all part of the bigger picture...a vision of where I want my body to be. This is only day 5 of the dbol and already looking really swole, I can see myself walking around as a Roman God at the peak of this cycle. 

I wish people would just at least show a little support for me instead of telling me I am too young, or too inexperienced. Haters can keep on hating...I've got ice in my veins, steel balls, a cold bitter heart, and I am only focused...on the bigger picture. 

One day I will prove a lot of people wrong that said I couldn't...I am relentless and I will succeed even with so many people trying to bring me down all of the time, I am only focused on the end result...and the end does justify the means it takes to get there. 

I went to a Christmas party tonight, and was peer pressured by all my friends and co-workers to eat junk food, drink beer, and do other stupid things. I smiled said "no" about 2 dozen times and kept chewing on my huge bag of almonds while guzzling my 3L bottle of water. I am so focused and dedicated to this that I am going straight edge for at least the next 18 weeks. I do not want to limit myself, or even have the thought of telling myself that there was something I could have done better to maximize the results. 

When this is a 6 page thread and people saying "Wow...amazing gains", etc. All the sacrifice...all the torture...all I've been through will have been worth it. I will one day become a man that respects himself, and other people will show respect to. I will achieve the goals I want to achieve, and live the life I want to live, or I will die trying to do what I love. 

Off to meditate for 20 mins in ice shower to help with recovery, and to focus and visualize what I want to achieve...tomorrow. 

8 hour sleep tonight, get in as much sleep as I can...before tren insomnia kicks in. 

I want this so bad...I can't even explain..

Progress day 5 pics

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## Noles12

Any cycle at 20 is a big cycle in terms of risks. YOu are making a mistake running these compounds at your age. 

Being dedicated and having drive to succeed does not keep these compounds from hurting you in the long run

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## Windex

> Day 3. Off day. I'm not sure if its the confidence, tren paranoia or girls can read guys with raging testosterone levels but I noticed more chicks looking my way then usual. Hopefully when real gains start I will be confident enough to approach some ladies. 
> 
> Gains..noticing more fullness in muscles, but chugging 3L of water and mouth still dry and thirsty.
> 
> I'm pretty sensitive to things I put in body but I' m willing to go through great deals of pain to gain muscle at all costs. 
> 
> Back and biceps tomorrow! 
> *
> Now or never for roids bro while people out wasting money on alcohol, I'm using it for research chemicals. I might not have the money or time to commit to this when I'm 25.*


Any how do you plan on affording Test repla***ent therapy then ?

Big mistake, no where near ready to cycle, let alone using Tren. Both your training and diet are lackluster and have significant room for improvement. If those attached pictures are infact you then it's pretty clear you have fairly strong, if not above average genes.

Furthermore, you have not been training log enough, regardless of what you might think. It takes several years (4-6+) of constant training in order to build up your tendons, ligaments, and connective tissue density. Steroids don't help at all with that and muscle grows faster than the aforementioned tissues. If you don't end up on TRT you will end up in the hospital because Tren gives a whole different level of strength gains and I gaurentee being 20 you are going to think it's a smart idea mid-cycle to just throw on X extra lbs to Y lift and then snap something. Case in point: few months back a 21 year old gym acquaintance cycled, was warned by others, and ended up tearing both his rotator cuffs. He won't be doing any lifting more than likely for the rest of this year, and to top it off the physiotherapy treatment along with medication netted him a cute $5000.00 bill.

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## objective33

I understand the risks, and I am willing to accept any consequences and side effects that arise from there use. 

Willing to pay the price to build a big strong physique. I could be drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, and eating fast food every day like hundreds of millions of people do every day. You are delusional if you think this is any worse. 

Training natty, especially when you are as dedicated as I am is laughable. I don't work my ass off everyday to see some lazy guido who parties all the time and eats whatever he wants be bigger than me, and thinks he trains harder than me. I've seen some of the guys in there, socialize, give it 70% effort and call it a day and still see better gains than me. I try not to compare myself to others because that is the worse thing you can do, but when your training natty and you know you are doing all of those little things, that the guy on roids is not doing and he's still bigger and thinks he's better than you, it tends to make you feel bitter and you take a serious blow to your self pride if you try to just accept it. 

I know the risks, the long term side effects, etc. I think you seriously underestimate the lengths I will go through to build a respectable, amazing physique. I could care less if my body is one giant acne scar, I could care less if I'm bald, I could care less if I have no testicles, I know what I want and there is only 1 option to get there. If you can't beat em join em.

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## objective33

> Any how do you plan on affording Test repla***ent therapy then ?
> 
> Big mistake, no where near ready to cycle, let alone using Tren . Both your training and diet are lackluster and have significant room for improvement. If those attached pictures are infact you then it's pretty clear you have fairly strong, if not above average genes.
> 
> Furthermore, you have not been training log enough, regardless of what you might think. It takes several years (4-6+) of constant training in order to build up your tendons, ligaments, and connective tissue density. Steroids don't help at all with that and muscle grows faster than the aforementioned tissues. If you don't end up on TRT you will end up in the hospital because Tren gives a whole different level of strength gains and I gaurentee being 20 you are going to think it's a smart idea mid-cycle to just throw on X extra lbs to Y lift and then snap something. Case in point: few months back a 21 year old gym acquaintance cycled, was warned by others, and ended up tearing both his rotator cuffs. He won't be doing any lifting more than likely for the rest of this year, and to top it off the physiotherapy treatment along with medication netted him a cute $5000.00 bill.


I lift with perfect form, I highly doubt I will be tearing anything any time soon. Training...yes I am still young and there is always room for improvement, the training program I have right now is effective...but could use some work and I am always open to suggestions. I never posted a clear cut diet either, you have no idea what my diet is like, but based on my readings it is pretty well thought out and high quality in comparison to what I've read. I never said anywhere in my post that I was cutting weight, I have no idea how to do a proper cutting diet, but my bulking diet I KNOW will more than suffice and very little improvements can be made. I've went to several dieticians/nutritionists in the area who helped me with some minor changes and additions, all checks out on the GI. If there is one thing I am 100% confident and certain with, it would be my diet. Note in my original post, I only included a few things I eat, not all of them.

People seriously underestimating what kind of pain I'm willing to go through to get the body I want. I am like that terrorist you torture over and over and over again trying to get him to break, but he just will not because he is willing to die for his cause.

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## Noles12

> I understand the risks, and I am willing to accept any consequences and side effects that arise from there use. 
> 
> Willing to pay the price to build a big strong physique. I could be drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, and eating fast food every day like hundreds of millions of people do every day. You are delusional if you think this is any worse. 
> 
> Training natty, especially when you are as dedicated as I am is laughable. I don't work my ass off everyday to see some lazy guido who parties all the time and eats whatever he wants be bigger than me, and thinks he trains harder than me. I've seen some of the guys in there, socialize, give it 70% effort and call it a day and still see better gains than me. I try not to compare myself to others because that is the worse thing you can do, but when your training natty and you know you are doing all of those little things, that the guy on roids is not doing and he's still bigger and thinks he's better than you, it tends to make you feel bitter and you take a serious blow to your self pride if you try to just accept it. 
> 
> I know the risks, the long term side effects, etc. I think you seriously underestimate the lengths I will go through to build a respectable, amazing physique. I could care less if my body is one giant acne scar, I could care less if I'm bald, I could care less if I have no testicles, I know what I want and there is only 1 option to get there. If you can't beat em join em.


You are very eccentric. Its almost as if you feel that your dedication wil change anything. 

How exactly is training naturally with dedication laughable? That kind of thinking to me is laughable. THough you feel confident in your choices, you are very immature. Anyone can say i dont care about what will happen to me in the future because i am trying so hard for something now, but they are usually the first to come back and say how stupid they were for doing it. 

So you work your ass off now to be bigger than "some guido that thinks he trains harder than you" but 10 years from now with dwindling test levels you have no motivation to get off ass and work out. I know seeing others blow up on less effort is frustrating but it is short term. It is stupid to let someone else get to you. 

I trained naturally for a long time. I started early. I thought i was invincible. I was dedicated. I spent more time than anyone i knew focusing on diet and training. Playing football being undersized i worked harder than anyone else out there. You know what it got me in the long run. Jack shit 

You know what it all means down the road when you are fat at 280 pounds? Absolutely nothing. I had to have a life changing event to realize i had to change. All of that dedication and drive from years before had long disappeared. 

Your life is not about right now. You have to focus on the long term and until you can grow out of the ignorance of thinking that you dont care what life is like down the road you will never truly understand.

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## objective33

TRT is a worse case scenario...in reality it only happens to the few that have no idea what they are doing. With proper PCT and everything, I know what to do, and what not to do. My natty test levels are on the high end of the scale, so I can see no problems with that...ever.

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## Noles12

> TRT is a worse case scenario...in reality it only happens to the few that have no idea what they are doing. With proper PCT and everything, I know what to do, and what not to do. My natty test levels are on the high end of the scale, so I can see no problems with that...ever.


You say this from experience? How exactly do you know it only happens to a few?

TRT starting at a very early age is sometimes the case in using AAS too young but being on it in your early 30s isnt exactly the best. Proper PCT is not a cure all. Having high natty levels has nothing to do with your system being restarted. It is shut down completely with these compounds. From there is must recover which is not a guarantee. There are guys that run perfect cycles and perfect PCT's that come on here daily saying "i never recovered from my cycle, i did everything right but my bloodwork shows my test levels of an elderly man". 

Dont think you are invincible. Working hard, feeling good, and having motivation does not change the way a body can react. You are not at any less of a risk then that guido the same age as you.

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## objective33

> You say this from experience? How exactly do you know it only happens to a few?
> 
> TRT starting at a very early age is sometimes the case in using AAS too young but being on it in your early 30s isnt exactly the best. Proper PCT is not a cure all. Having high natty levels has nothing to do with your system being restarted. It is shut down completely with these compounds. From there is must recover which is not a guarantee. There are guys that run perfect cycles and perfect PCT's that come on here daily saying "i never recovered from my cycle, i did everything right but my bloodwork shows my test levels of an elderly man". 
> 
> 
> Dont think you are invincible. Working hard, feeling good, and having motivation does not change the way a body can react. You are not at any less of a risk then that guido the same age as you.


You have gave me a lot to think about. I will continue on with cycle as scheduled, but may drop the tren if I feel it is shutting me down too hard just to be safe. Test-e is a weaker compound, and I'm not afraid it will shut me down too hard. What is your age and stats?

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## titan13

> TRT is a worse case scenario...in reality it only happens to the few that have no idea what they are doing. With proper PCT and everything, I know what to do, and what not to do. My natty test levels are on the high end of the scale, so I can see no problems with that...ever.


You dont know what to do, if you did you would take the advise of knowledgeable members here on the site. Do you honestly think at 20 you really know better than people that have been running aas since you were in diapers?

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## objective33

Still not much support. No love lost, no love found. 

Anyways day 6 and 7 updates. 

Day 6 
- Calves and forearms 
- Eyes blood shot and red face from workout, I am an animal while I train, everyone stares lol. 
- Tore calluses again from doing farmers walk 315 for 50 metres, could do more weight with chalk but wouls that be counterproductive? 
- Noticing veins and more vascularity today. 

Day 7 
9 hour sleep last night...feeling great today. I had sore kidneys/liver but I think that is from the dbol and I didn't drink enough water before bed.
Day off today, my training routine is set up to maximize recovery time between body parts.

May have been in diapers but you guys didn't have access to the resources that we young guns have access to, so we are better able to educate ourselves for safe AAS use. I could literally have written a thesis about the effects of steroid use that is how many hours I've spent researching. I'm just going to ignore any more spam about people telling me I'm too young. It is like a WW2 vet telling his grandson that his rifle is better than the new one his grandson has. Completely living in the past and delusional. Times have changed. Ai's, serms, liver protection or whatever I need is easily accessible and affordable. The purity of steroids has also improved. Just because you didn't have the proper ancillaries or safety precautions at the time and messed your bodies up does not mean I will do the same. 

If your going to hate don't bother posting. How about show some support for a guy trying to achieve his goals and dreams? Getting sick of all the elitist pessimists on this board. 

I am a true visionary and have more drive, willpower, and motivation than anyone on these boards. I'm far from the biggest or most genetically gifted, but I am certain, regardless if anyone says otherwise, that I train harder and smarter than most. I have came a long way with bad genetics due to work ethic alone, and the end result of this cycle will justify that.

Day 8 tomorrow - Chest and Triceps!

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## MickeyKnox

wow, very impressed with your drive and determination. however, Noles advice is what i would heed if i were you. you are systematically destroying your endocrine system which has not fully developed and wont until you're around 25-26. are you aware of this? look it up when you get a moment. 

adding AAS to your life now can and likely will have a significant impact on your future. do you plan on having children later? Noles and others here have given you some of the best advice i've seen yet. think about the drive and determination HE must have to write that up for you. what's HIS motivation? perhaps it's his experience and knowledge base that motivates him to educate you on the damage you're doing to your young and developing system? whatever it is, the advice should not be take lightly..

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## objective33

Thank you for the support. I have taken what he said into consideration but i've already made up my mind and there is no turning back now. I had a life changing experience about 14 months ago, so training and school are the only things that keep me going. I have been training for 5 years so I know my bones and ligaments are strong enough. I am also very durable and my flexibility is on the high end of the scale. I live everyday like it is my last, and learn like I will live forever. I might be married with kids by the time I'm 26, it is now or never.

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## MickeyKnox

> Thank you for the support. I have taken what he said into consideration but i've already made up my mind and there is no turning back now. I had a life changing experience about 14 months ago, so training and school are the only things that keep me going. I have been training for 5 years so I know my bones and ligaments are strong enough. I am also very durable and my flexibility is on the high end of the scale. I live everyday like it is my last, and learn like I will live forever. I might be married with kids by the time I'm 26, it is now or never.


for the record, i DO NOT support you. i DO however admire your drive, determination, and tenacity. i just wish you could channel your passion elsewhere.

you're so driven that you're unable to see the forest though the trees - you missed the point. it's irrelevant how flexible or how strong your ligaments are. you obviously have not had a chance to look up the endocrine system. anyway, like you've already stated many times, you've made up your mind. 

i hope your dream of having children comes true. as of last week, you began to reduce your odds..

i'm not sub'd....good luck son..

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## Windex

People are this board have been cycling longer than you have been alive and you choose to be stubborn and think you are immune to how the human body works. Furthermore, some members on this board (including myself) are directly active in the medical field/community (whether it be they are in med school, a physiotherapist, researching for their Masters/PhD, working in an aging/HRT clinic, etc) yet you seem to think you know more than us. It doesn't matter if you lift with perfect form, because too much weight will cause you to deter from that form - that's how injuries are caused.

You always have a choice, there's no such thing as "not going back". The people who end up on HRT are not only those who cycle incorrectly but have endocrine complications to begin with - something that cannot be fixed by any "pharmaceutical bandaid", ergo PCT or "proper precautions", and for whatever reason do not bounce back after PCT and end up with low T and thus must go on TRT. Hence why we advocate on this board not to cycle before 25 to allow sufficient time for endocrine system growth to minimize risks even further.


Goodluck with your cycle, you are going to need it. I will not spend any more time on this thread.

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## Armykid93

Let him destroy himself then one day he can come on this board and try to tell the "young guns"they are being ridiculous. He's impatient which in itself shows he isn't ready.

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## Noles12

> Still not much support. No love lost, no love found. 
> 
> Anyways day 6 and 7 updates. 
> 
> Day 6 
> - Calves and forearms 
> - Eyes blood shot and red face from workout, I am an animal while I train, everyone stares lol. 
> - Tore calluses again from doing farmers walk 315 for 50 metres, could do more weight with chalk but wouls that be counterproductive? 
> - Noticing veins and more vascularity today. 
> ...


What you fail to realize is most guys on here are still using today therefore they may have started when you were in diapers but they follow the same protocols that have evolved to today. We do have the same resources and information you do, we just choose to follow it

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## objective33

Day 8 - Chest and Triceps
- Traps still sore from last week, so I did dumbbell press today. Lifts and energy were down a bit. My tricep workout was a little more intense and heavier than usual. 

I asked some people for input and they said I'm definitely getting the hardened thick skin look. 
- Up 2.6 lbs in a week, was expecting more but at least I know dbol is legit so far. 

Day 9 - Quads, hams, glutes
- Slept in today for about 30 mins. I had 7 hours of sleep but didn't want to get up this morning. I started taking melatonine to help me sleep. I've been having the wildest most vivid dreams that seem soo real. I dream about having sex with 10/10s all day, killing people, working out, grocery shopping, and dreams about relaxing on the sandy beaches of the caribbean with a cold drink in hand. 

Very hungry this morning 
6 egg whites
2 whole wheat bagels 
1 green tea 
2 bowls branflakes 
1 cup of mik and 1 cup of berries for cereal 
1 whey shake 
1 banana

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## objective33

Day 8 progress

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## OriginalShovelhead79

Sounds like you have it all figured out. At your age, I thought I did too. I wish you the best of luck and hope everything works out like the information you have informed yourself with states, or the way you comprehended the information you read. I have no regrets of my past for my past has gotten me to the present, but I am hard headed too. Determined to do anything I set my mind to. I have learned over the years. A smart man learns from his mistakes, a wise man learns from others. Finish your tren cycle, but atleast consider what some of the elders are saying. They wouldn't take the time to bump and post if they didn't care, and Im sure we can all relate to the feelings you shared of determination and self improvement. Cheers mate!

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## objective33

Great leg workout, I was exhausted when I started but as soon as the preworkout and adrenaline kicked in I was going insane in the gym.
Again, I did the slow controlled reps for leg extension using a lighter weight and I notice more growth in the quads sibce I am contracting all of the muscle fibers. 
I gained 1.4 lbs overnight! My 4000 calorie diet and hard work are starting to pay off. Also starting to get the post workout sweats. 
Currently sitting at 83.4 lbs.

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## Noles12

> Great leg workout, I was exhausted when I started but as soon as the preworkout and adrenaline kicked in I was going insane in the gym.
> Again, I did the slow controlled reps for leg extension using a lighter weight and I notice more growth in the quads sibce I am contracting all of the muscle fibers. 
> I gained 1.4 lbs overnight! My 4000 calorie diet and hard work are starting to pay off. Also starting to get the post workout sweats. 
> Currently sitting at 83.4 lbs.


One tip i can give you is dont weigh yourself daily. It can be misleading. 1.4 pounds can easily be due to a number of factors other than true weight gain. I can take a shit and lose a pound. I may be 5 pounds heavier at night than i am in the morning. So when it comes to weighing i would do it in the morning every few days or once a week

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## objective33

> One tip i can give you is dont weigh yourself daily. It can be misleading. 1.4 pounds can easily be due to a number of factors other than true weight gain. I can take a shit and lose a pound. I may be 5 pounds heavier at night than i am in the morning. So when it comes to weighing i would do it in the morning every few days or once a week


I always weigh myself before and after a workout. I've usually sweat off quite a bit of water, and depleted my glycogen stores by this point. Upon further research, I see that the best way to get an accurate measurement of bodyweight is to measure yourself in the morning. Looks like I'm picking up a new scale tomorrow, as well as my AI and SERMS which are finally here.

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## Julz_W

Mind if I ask where you posted your current routine for your bulking cycle?

I tried to search but couldn't come up with anything - though I could just be a gimp with the search tool.

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## objective33

> Mind if I ask where you posted your current routine for your bulking cycle?
> 
> I tried to search but couldn't come up with anything - though I could just be a gimp with the search tool.


Took it down, I'm going to keep everything except for deadlifts in the 6-8 rep range. I'm doing a bit of experimenting right now. 

I asked some other bodybuilders in online chat room, and they said my chest and shoulders looked like they were lagging and underdeveloped. Going to hit shoulders for 3 exercises x 3 sets each on leg day (Wed), and do 3 x 3 with main emphasis on upper chest development on Thursdays (off day) which is only 2 days after training Chest and Triceps on Tues, but should be enough recovery time once the tren and test kick in. Might change my routine around if I can't work the higher frequency into my current split.

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## objective33

Day 10 - chest with main focus on upper fibers, notice I don't call it isolation because I know what I'm talking about haha. 
Heavy incline barbell bench 3 x 8 - 185 
Dumbbell press 3 x 8 - 85s 
Standing cable flies 3 x 10 - 150 each arm 

I read several articles that said 1compound exercise, 1 dumbbell, 1 cable exercise for a lagging chest. I did slow eccentrics and exploded on the concrntric phase using full rom to really fill chest muscles with blood and overload the muscles. Chest was so sore and pumped after. 

Back and biceps tomorrow!

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## objective33

Hey all. I would just like a critique of my diet. 
This is just a sample day, I rotate the pasta with rice and chicken and veggies, or 2 cans of tuna, tablespoon salsa, and rice. 

Meal 1 
- 6 egg whites 
- 1 bowl branflakes with half cup berries half cup 2% milk
- 2 whole wheat bagels 
- 1 green tea 
- 1 whey shake

Meal 2 (preworkout) 
- 2 caramel ricecakes heavily coated with peanut butter 
- 2 bananas 

Meal 3 ( post workout) 
- 1 cup low fat vanilla yogurt 
- half cup spinach 
- half cup berries 
- cup of oats
- 2 scoops whey protein 

Meal 4
- extra lean ground beef and veggies with whole wheat rotini in tomato sauce

Meal 5 
- 1/2 cup almonds 
- 1 apple/ orange 
- cup milk 

Meal 6 
- half cup cottage cheese 

I drink 20g of bcaas with 1 packet of purple gatorade in 3L bottle of water that I just keep diluting all day. 

I also try to eat high GI carbs before workout and low to moderate post workout.

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## objective33



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## Windex

No offense but your diet is complete garbage, and if the pics are indeed you it's just further evidence you have some quality genetics. Cereal, caramel rice cakes, and bagels - I'm speechless.

You really need to give your head a shake and stop what your doing right now. Health risks aside, you are wasting your money. Any weight increase will not be muscle, rather water and fat; eating like that and you will drop right back down to 180 lbs before PCT is finished.

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## Windex

> I lift with perfect form, I highly doubt I will be tearing anything any time soon. Training...yes I am still young and there is always room for improvement, the training program I have right now is effective...but could use some work and I am always open to suggestions. *I never posted a clear cut diet either, you have no idea what my diet is like, but based on my readings it is pretty well thought out and high quality in comparison to what I've read*. I never said anywhere in my post that I was cutting weight, I have no idea how to do a proper cutting diet, but my bulking diet I KNOW will more than suffice and very little improvements can be made. I've went to several dieticians/nutritionists in the area who helped me with some minor changes and additions, all checks out on the GI. If there is one thing I am 100% confident and certain with, it would be my diet. Note in my original post, I only included a few things I eat, not all of them.
> 
> People seriously underestimating what kind of pain I'm willing to go through to get the body I want. I am like that terrorist you torture over and over and over again trying to get him to break, but he just will not because he is willing to die for his cause.



Not even close whatsoever.

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## mirin_serratus

everything good in life has risks, if he's willing to take the risk let him be
i'd rather look good in the prime of my life than waste it on perfect diet and training 24/7, just an opinion

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## objective33

> Not even close whatsoever.


I believe you are unaware. 9 grain bagels and branflakes/ oat bran are complex carbs, and rice cakes are on the high end of the GI meaning they are quickly used as energy during exercise. Studies also show that protein intaken 1-3 hours before exercise aids in protein synthesis, hence the peanut butter. If I were cutting these foods would be unacceptable, but I clearly stated that I am bulking. I believe in a carb heavy, high protein, moderate diet during a bulk. This is why I also drink a 3L bottle of water with packet of purple gatorade and 20g of BCAAs that Ijust continue diluting all day. I do agree that I do need more even protein distribution throughout the day and I've tried supplementing that with almonds, nuts or cans of tuna because beef and chicken are so damn expensive that twice a day consumption is out of the question. 

You should spend a little less time spewing and reading broscience posted on these forums, and spend more time reading legitimate research articles so you can enlighten yourself on the ignorant broscience you try to spew to others. I was eating 4000 calories a day during pct and off cycle recovery time while staying between 8 and 9% bf while eating carbs, carbs, carbs, hell I might even need to bump it to 4500 to 5000 calories just to maximize gains on cycle. 

I also believe you only need so much protein, because if you are consuming more than 2x your bodyweight, you are only doing more harm to your body then good.

Feel free to try and prove me wrong. I would like to see a proper explanation along with the credible study to support your claims. I am near the top of the class in terms of my GPA, and I will be a strength and conditioning coach in a few more years, so I HAVE to know what I am talking about.

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## objective33

Day 11 - Back and Biceps 
Last time I ever do deadlifts. I lost 60 lbs off my 1 rm after not doing them for 2 weeks. I thought I was going to lose my mind in the gym; dat dere tren irrability haha. 2 months of progress. Gone. I will stick with rack pulls which are safer and decreased risk of injury, and they are better for back development anyways. 

Other than that I felt powerful and more aggresive in the gym, and all lifts were up. 

Day 12 - I got to bed early last night. I felt sick to my stomach because I ate 2 cans of tuna raw, had a cup of OJ, and a glass of milk. What was I thinking? Fish-acidity in orange juice- and lactose do NOT mix. Live and learn haha. I got 5 hours of sleep before I woke up and then I was unable to hit the deeper stages of sleep as I kept waking up every 20 mins for the next 5 hours, so much for a 10 hour sleep LOL.

Anyways I trained SHOULDERS today. My dumbbell shoulder press was up 10 lbs, which is a good sign of things to come. Really red in the face as I serve customers at work tonight, but other than that I am in an amazing mood today, and I feel extremely positive and optimistic about things to come. 

Calves, forearms, abs and static stretching tomorrow!

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## Noles12

Irritability 11 days in to tren -e is not due to the tren. This far in with the esters you are using, most anything is a placebo effect and practically all mental

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## objective33

> Irritability 11 days in to tren-e is not due to the tren. This far in with the esters you are using, most anything is a placebo effect and practically all mental


Oh I know I was kidding lol. It is normal for me to get angry and upset when one of my lifts go down. Watch out when the tren kicks in lol.

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## Windex

> I believe you are unaware. 9 grain bagels and branflakes/ oat bran are complex carbs, and rice cakes are on the high end of the GI meaning they are quickly used as energy during exercise. Studies also show that protein intaken 1-3 hours before exercise aids in protein synthesis, hence the peanut butter. If I were cutting these foods would be unacceptable, but I clearly stated that I am bulking. I believe in a carb heavy, high protein, moderate diet during a bulk. This is why I also drink a 3L bottle of water with packet of purple gatorade and 20g of BCAAs that Ijust continue diluting all day. I do agree that I do need more even protein distribution throughout the day and I've tried supplementing that with almonds, nuts or cans of tuna because beef and chicken are so damn expensive that twice a day consumption is out of the question. 
> 
> You should spend a little less time spewing and reading broscience posted on these forums, and spend more time reading legitimate research articles so you can enlighten yourself on the ignorant broscience you try to spew to others. I was eating 4000 calories a day during pct and off cycle recovery time while staying between 8 and 9% bf while eating carbs, carbs, carbs, hell I might even need to bump it to 4500 to 5000 calories just to maximize gains on cycle. 
> 
> I also believe you only need so much protein, because if you are consuming more than 2x your bodyweight, you are only doing more harm to your body then good.
> 
> Feel free to try and prove me wrong. I would like to see a proper explanation along with the credible study to support your claims. I am near the top of the class in terms of my GPA, and I will be a strength and conditioning coach in a few more years, so I HAVE to know what I am talking about.


Why don't I start by pointing you to my sticky, then you could point me to yours? Oh...

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...n#.TtfH-lYnjTo

I guess all of those articles aren't credible though right? Also, nuts and nut butters are incomplete sources of proteins. Yes they belong in a diet, but require a full protein source like a lean meat paired with it. It would be like trying to eat soup with a fork.

And if you would like to re-read my previous post, trying to gloat about your extracurricular life accomplishes nothing on this forum. I make 50k a year in scholarships while I'm currently attending medical school but I don't add that to the end of all of my posts. Moreover, my personal trainer is a retired bodybuilding judge, power lifter, and has his Pro Card. I also don't add that to every post.

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## objective33

> Why don't I start by pointing you to my sticky, then you could point me to yours? Oh...
> 
> http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...n#.TtfH-lYnjTo
> 
> I guess all of those articles aren't credible though right? Also, nuts and nut butters are incomplete sources of proteins. Yes they belong in a diet, but require a full protein source like a lean meat paired with it. It would be like trying to eat soup with a fork.
> 
> And if you would like to re-read my previous post, trying to gloat about your extracurricular life accomplishes nothing on this forum. I make 50k a year in scholarships while I'm currently attending medical school but I don't add that to the end of all of my posts. Moreover, my personal trainer is a retired bodybuilding judge, power lifter, and has his Pro Card. I also don't add that to every post.


You linked me to a thread you copied and pasted. It says eat a bagel with jam preworkout, eat all-bran, etc. Also some articles are conflicting, you can do this, but you can't do that, oh but you can do this even if the other article says to avoid that. Very contradictory to what you said, in your post, and does not tell me why I shouldn't eat whole wheat bagels, pasta, all-bran, or ricecakes. All those should be avoided if you are attempting to cut, but on a bulk when your staying lean eating them anyways, they are a good source of complex carbs and fiber.

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## objective33

Day 13 - I usually have a no exceptions rule to missing a training day, but something I could not ignore came up.

Day 14 - Calves, forearms, abs 
- Supposed to be an off day, but I HAD to make up for my missed workout. Won't affect my day 15 workout anyways. 900 x 12 for calves presses on decline leg press machine. Kind of sad a 20 year old can max your leg press machine with ease. I will stick with calf raises using the smith machine. Also did 5 plates on the seated calves machine, def feeling much stronger already. 

Day 15 - Chest and Triceps 

Choking down my preworkout meal with preworkout stack.
Will update and post progress pic when I get back. 

Bought a new scale. I'm at 190 lbs already! 210 including waterweight is looking like a realistic finishing weight.

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## RayXXL

You'll have Erectile dysfunction before you know it for being a impatient 20 year old smh :2nono:

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## CmyZFly

Damn!!

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## objective33

Day 15 - Chest and Triceps 
Aggression up, pretty meh workout. 

Day 16 - Legs 
Could barely do 405 to parallel a week ago. Huge improvements and explosiveness I've never had before.

Working sets for squats 
315 x 12 
375 x 10 
405 x 8 
405 x 8 

Day 17 - upper chest work 
Pretty meh

Day 18 - back and biceps 
515 rack pull! 
Tried something new for biceps - full contraction of biceps with literally no momentum, very low weight and low reps, very difficult and painful, unsure about this. Seen some pros that do this and it seemed interesting.

Day 19 - shoulders 

Strength up a bit. Always give it all I've got
but I dislike shoulders for some reason. 

Reading week so perfect diet and training aside, I've been lazy for everything else in life. Strength and aggression are up, and so far no real tren insomnia or harsh sides yet. I started on 12.5 mg aromasin ed a few days ago, but currently weighing around 194.

Calves and forearms and abs tomorrow!

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## FIRE1989

hey hows it goin man i can see a lot of ppl are bashing you, i dont know much about all this stuff but all i can say is stay focused and do work man, its your body just be as safe about it as you can. 

if you dont mind i have a few questions that id like to ask you off of the forum, if you don't mind that is?

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## objective33

Most people don't understand my situation bro. I've went through so much adversity to get to where I am. Bullying through school, high school and even a bit in college, severe adhd, and battled depression in the past. I've watched a ton of videos on Kai Greene, Muhammed Ali, etc the past week and it has really changed my mentality about training and life. These guys thrived on hate and criticism to overcome all obstacles to become champions, and are very inspirational idols of mine. 

Anyways bro you can pm here, or email [email protected]. I'd be glad to answer any of your questions or offer advice.

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## FIRE1989

tried emailing you, it wouldn't let me and im trying to figure out how to PM but every time i click on your name to go to your page it wont allow me?

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## stpete

Just because other people are out drinking, smoking cigs and whatever else should be no concern to you or anyone else. Just be concerned with yourself. I'm not going to try to get you to stop(although i think you should) because many good people have tried and my suggestion will fall on deaf ears as theirs did. Hope you don't permanently damage yourself. That would be a shame.

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## objective33

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## objective33

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## Predator87

I am not going to comment on your age, just gonna say that you look great  :Wink:

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## objective33

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## objective33

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## objective33

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## Mason380

Go to your doctor and get some of these- tetracycline 250mg and all those zit/pimples on your back and chest will be gone bro

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## dooie

Fark your bacne is hectic!! I don't see any gains that couldn't have been from diet! U used Tren , test and dbol and made what.. Ten pounds, you should of listened man!

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## DanB

> Go to your doctor and get some of these- tetracycline 250mg and all those zit/pimples on your back and chest will be gone bro


It does nothing for most people, its only a broad spectrum antibiotic, its like being perscribed paracetamol to manage pain for a broken bone

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## Mason380

> It does nothing for most people, its only a broad spectrum antibiotic, its like being perscribed paracetamol to manage pain for a broken bone


Seriously ? It's works great for me. Take one n the next day it's Gone or close to it.

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## DanB

> Seriously ? It's works great for me. Take one n the next day it's Gone or close to it.


I dont see how when even the doc says it takes minimum 2 months, regardless of that it takes about a week to build up in your blood, I have used it 1 gram a day for 6 months, also used doxycycline and tetrasal and done nothing, many friends used it and nothing, but hey if its magic for you then thats great you are 1 in a million and if its gone the next day then it isnt the tetracycline doing it for you, it just gone by itself

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## Mason380

> I dont see how when even the doc says it takes minimum 2 months, regardless of that it takes about a week to build up in your blood, I have used it 1 gram a day for 6 months, also used doxycycline and tetrasal and done nothing, many friends used it and nothing, but hey if its magic for you then thats great you are 1 in a million and if its gone the next day then it isnt the tetracycline doing it for you, it just gone by itself


I tried a few different meds and none did nothing but this one, my brother is on t to and it works great for him to. Iduno it works good with us but there's other one I tired and it either got worse or did nothing and did wonders for other ppl. There something out there for everyone, you just gota find it.

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## Mason380

Oh and I did take them for a month straight then came off when everything is good and that was like 3-4 maybe more months ago, just take them when really need them

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## MickeyKnox

wow that bacne is brutal dude. get that shyt looked at soon..

and yeah you should have listened son- you hardly made any gains...what a waste of a cycle..

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## objective33

I believe I maximized my gains. I was eating 4000-5000 calories on cycle. You have to see that the gains I made were lean gains, and that I put on little to no fat mass. My diet for the first 4 weeks of the cycle wasn't great, but by the time I finished the cycle, my diet was pretty much flawless. I did not record one cheat meal the entire cycle, ate 100% clean. My training was not as strict as I would have liked it to be. I believe I might have suffered from volume overkill - too many sets - too many reps, not high enough intensity on several body parts.

Starting Stats
315 Max bench 
465 Max Deadlift/495 rack pull
405 Max squat 

Finishing Stats
315 x 3 Max Bench - didn't make the greatest gains on bench, but I am pretty close to genetic max potential 
625 Rackpull.... This is a 130 lb gain, big numbers. 
425 x 6 squat, was doing 405 x 14 by the end.

Diet 

Meal 1 
1 cup oatmeal 
1/2 cup blueberries 
pinch of cinnamon 
15 egg whites 
2 scoops whey blend 

Meal 2 (pre-workout)
1 Banana 
1/2 cup almonds 
2 scoops Jack3d, 1 scoop creatine mono

Intraworkout 
- 3L of water 
- 1 packet of purple gatorade
- 20g BCAA 

Meal 3 (post-workout)
- 1 cup oats 
- 1/2 cup berries
- 1/2 cup yogurt 
- 1/2 cup spinach 
- 2 scoops whey blend protein 

Meal 4 (1 hour 30 mins - 2 hours post-workout)
- 2 chicken breasts
- 1 cup rice 
- 1 cup veggies 

Meal 5 
- 1 cup rice 
- 2 cans tuna 

Meal 6 
- 1 cup extra lean ground beef with assorted veggies fried in 
- 1 cup cottage cheese 

You guys are delusional if you think my diet could have been improved anymore. I commute every day, and do a lot of walking and have an insane natural metabolism. I believe for next cycle I will need to push my calories up to the 5500 to 6000 mark eating 8 meals a day. I didn't put on the kind of fat mass that I think was necessary in order to maximize my gains, I pretty much stayed lean the entire cycle with a bit of water bloat. I didn't post before leg pics, but I added big time mass to my quads, hamstrings, and calves especially. I was doing 3 plate toe raises at the start of cycle, and by the end I was toe raising 7 plates per side. Added some decent size to tri's and bi's. Big improvements on anterior/posterior delts. Traps really improved. Everything generally looks much improved except for chest. I do everything right for chest and it just doesn't grow like I would like it to. I switched it up weekly, tried all sorts of different things, and just nothing is working. 

Started PCT yesterday. 

Clomid 100/100/50/50
Nolvadex 50/50/25/25 

I'm feeling like a weak bish, but I haven't felt this happy or upbeat in weeks. Even mid cycle - right up until 14 days after my last test shot I've been feeling very lethargic, and not quite myself. Just in general, miserable all the time. I can barely get out of bed in the morning right now, but I haven't felt this happy or good in months, it is like I am a new man. Workouts have been high energy with lots of enthusiasm even though I lost that natural power and aggression you have on cycle, I always felt so angry and serious when training during cycle, now it seems more light-hearted and fun again. 

I definitely did not do enough tren this cycle. 300 ml was relatively weak, and I was disappointed by the gains. Next cycle will look something like 4 weeks dbol 50 mg/day, 10 weeks tren @ 500 ml/ week 12 weeks test e 600 ml/week or something.

I am booking an appointment with the dermatologist next week, and I am demanding Accutane, I've tried tetracycline and monocycline and they didn't work. I will also schedule to get my blood work done around a month from now.

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## objective33

> Fark your bacne is hectic!! I don't see any gains that couldn't have been from diet! U used Tren, test and dbol and made what.. Ten pounds, you should of listened man!


10 lbs of lean mass that you keep for a 3rd cycle when you are pretty much near your natural genetic max potential is pretty damn impressive. Most guys may put on 20-25 lbs, but end up only keeping 5 lbs lean mass when they are finished cutting.

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## objective33

> Fark your bacne is hectic!! I don't see any gains that couldn't have been from diet! U used Tren, test and dbol and made what.. Ten pounds, you should of listened man!


double post

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## objective33

These pics were taken 3 weeks on cycle before the gains started. Obviously if you look at the above pics, you will see that I made big time gains.

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## dooie

> These pics were taken 3 weeks on cycle before the gains started. Obviously if you look at the above pics, you will see that I made big time gains.
> 
> <img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122854"/><img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122855"/><img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122856"/>


Get BW done a month after PCT. I can't believe u have done 3 cycles lol,

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## Mason380

> I believe I maximized my gains. I was eating 4000-5000 calories on cycle. You have to see that the gains I made were lean gains, and that I put on little to no fat mass. My diet for the first 4 weeks of the cycle wasn't great, but by the time I finished the cycle, my diet was pretty much flawless. I did not record one cheat meal the entire cycle, ate 100% clean. My training was not as strict as I would have liked it to be. I believe I might have suffered from volume overkill - too many sets - too many reps, not high enough intensity on several body parts.
> 
> Starting Stats
> 315 Max bench
> 465 Max Deadlift/495 rack pull
> 405 Max squat
> 
> Finishing Stats
> 315 x 3 Max Bench - didn't make the greatest gains on bench, but I am pretty close to genetic max potential
> ...


Accutane does work I've done them when I was young. They dry you put way to much, you can't go out in the sun n swim with all your friends bc you'll be that red, ppl will then just be talking about how red you are on top of the acne. I think you should look around, do some research before you do accutane. I also know ppl that had nose bleeds out of know where on it. I have this cream now ( 50 gm benzaclin topical gel 1%/5%) this will work for every one no matter what type of acne. You can actually feel it drying out the skin in seconds where you apply it. I know your prob still Gona get accutane so if you stack that cream with accutane I can almost say this will work 100%. For the acne scares your 100% going to have, go to shoppers and pick up palmers coco butter with vitamin e. it's for pregnant woman to help get rid of starch marks. I tried lots of products for acne scares and this has worked the best. Try All this and you won't be disappointed. I know how bad acne can Bring your confidants down so low you don't even wana take your shirt off in front of other ppl. Anyway good luck.

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## crunkee

This poor guy is just gettn work over .. Eek bacne is sick ..9LBS OF BACNE 1LB of muscle gained. sic so sick

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## gonebluffn

> ]This isn't even relatively that much gear, done plenty of reading and plenty of guys that are pro's and what not are blast and crusing 1000 ml of test e a week or more.
> 
> I've done 2 cycles and I know what I am doing. I've done hours upon hours of researching, and I understand the risks and side effects and how to deal with all of them. 
> 
> None of you guys have any idea how bad I want this. I may not have the best genetics, I may not have the best lifestyle coming from a low-mid income family. I've lead a pretty rough life, and looking at where I am now, and where I will be in 5 years due to solely my willpower and work ethic, it is worth all the pain, suffering, and adversity I've had to overcome just because people tell me "I'm different" or "slow". I've got to where I am with little support from anyone except for a few close friends I've met this year at school with similar goals as mine. Nothing else in the entire world matters to me right now except getting my education done, and my fitness goals. I know, when I am in the gym I am working harder than 98% of the people in there. I yell and scream as I push through the pain of my heavy sets as everyone around me stares, and not a single care in the world is given. 
> 
> I can't even put it into words...how dedicated I am to this. I am not competing in bodybuilding or powerlifting, I lift weights because it is my life, and I love the adrenaline rush. Only need so much money, material wealth doesn't even matter to me anymore, nothing else really matters except the iron and the books. I don't care what anyone on here says, or what anyone tries to tell me in real life, I have so much heart and dedication to this...I don't even know how to put it in words. I've never been a religious person, but when I am in the gym it is the equivalent of me being in a church...I've took this all to a spiritual level that is hard to explain. All I can do when I'm not in the gym, is visualize my next workout and how I want to push myself even harder, and harder, and harder. Eat, eat, eat, gym, eat,eat,eat, chugging 3L water everywhere I go, my bottle does not leave my side. 
> 
> Day 5. Shoulders and high volume ab work 
> ...


You obviosly didnt do enough research or you wouldnt be running 12.5 mgs of adex or for that matter cycling at your age.

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## objective333

I ended up running a low dosage of low dose aromasin through out. This is an old post you are referencing, I did do my research, and I know more than the majority of people here. I read all kinds of threads where people say they include weekly cheat meals, go drinking on weekends, smoke marijuana recreationally, etc Really? You call that dedication? 


"Those who say it cannot be done shouldn't interrupt the people doing it".

Apparently posting about a 625 rack pull is considered spam. I wrote a long post about how I was doing more of a bodybuilding style of training rather than sticking to my power lifting style of training. I'm going to revert back to the PL style more so, and worry more so about raw strength rather than mass. People think I am crazy when I tell them I'll hit a 800 lb rack pull at 205 lbs, but I'll prove them all wrong. Maybe, even 200, we'll see.

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## Konnann

> I read all kinds of threads where people say they include weekly cheat meals, go drinking on weekends, smoke marijuana recreationally, etc Really? You call that dedication?


I'm sure most of us are just trying to get bigger and add on muscle, not become pro bodybuilders. I'm not going to stop living my life while doing this, I enjoy going out and having a few drinks with friends. So if that means I'm going to have 10% BF and not 6% then so be it

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## objective33

> I'm sure most of us are just trying to get bigger and add on muscle, not become pro bodybuilders. I'm not going to stop living my life while doing this, I enjoy going out and having a few drinks with friends. So if that means I'm going to have 10% BF and not 6% then so be it


That's cool, and I respect that but people should not be coming in to a thread and say you need to do more research and improve your diet/training, when theres is less than optimal while you are fully dedicated to it.

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## < <Samson> >

I don't know WTF you guys are talking about. This little guy is shredded.

But paid a insane price for it. Huge possibility of life long limp weiner, lost gains, lost hair and a shit ton of backne.


Shredded for now though. I can't say good job on this, I would only try this when I'm 40+

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## Mason380

> I don't know WTF you guys are talking about. This little guy is shredded.
> 
> But paid a insane price for it. Huge possibility of life long limp weiner, lost gains, lost hair and a shit ton of backne.
> 
> Shredded for now though. I can't say good job on this, I would only try this when I'm 40+


Yeah he is in good shape , if I started getting bacne like that I'd stop altogether f*ck that it's not worth it. Girls don't care how ripped you if you have acne all over you.

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## Konnann

> if I started getting bacne like that I'd stop altogether f*ck that it's not worth it. Girls don't care how ripped you if you have acne all over you.


True enough, unless you already have a dedicated lady
I had bad acne when I was a teen, no woman till I got rid of it

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## Gronkowski

Just read this entire thread. Its okay to want to look good to impress the ladies and have self confidence , but really, I feel you are going alittle bit over board. Health should be the main priority in your life, and your future health. If you don't have your health you have nothing.

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