# STEROIDS FORUM > HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY- Low T, Anti-Aging >  Restoring E2 levels after crashing

## jamotech

to those that have crushed their E2 level, what was your method of bringing your e levels back up? Specifically, how long did you skip your AI dose? Never gone through this before, so im curious how long it will take to go up. Im still having some joint pain, libido is almost back. I should be able to tell when I should go back on the AI, but I figured id get some input from those that have gone through it and get an idea of a time frame.

Thanks

Jamo

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## kelkel

Jamo I'm still recovering from it. I was at less than 3 at 1.5mg ai per week. Cut it in half, retested one month later at 5. Went totally off the ai and started Nolva. Next test one month later was at 15. Another month passed by and I just retested again. Results should be in tomorrow and I'm hoping to be in the 20's. Made a world of difference with joint pain/libido (there's a joke there.) Anyway, I highly recommend the serm to get you through this process if your having any sensitivity issues.

Crashing it happens fast. Restoring it takes time.

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## xelnaga

Depends on how much gear im on. If Im on 500 mgs of test I will drop my AI for a week to ten days, then begin a revised dose of my anti E, in order to prevent another crash. If im on more test or dbol - I tend to just lower my AI and continue. Dbol gets my estrogen up quick.

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## jamotech

wow Kel, cant wait to see what your numbers are after 3 months. Thanks, very helpful info!

xelnaga, thanks for the response...although my situation is different as im on a very low dose of test, your method combined with dosage info still gives me a good measuring stick (theres NO joke there), thanks!

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## Vettester

Kelkel is right, it will indeed take a little time. You will start to feel the effects of estrogen rebound within 1 to 2 weeks. As Kelkel mentioned, get some Nolvadex to mitigate the sensitivity issues that it will cause with the nipples. 20mg/day should be sufficient. Everyone's time frame will be different with it, but if you're lucky you might be able to taper down the Nolva after 1 week, maybe 2 weeks.

With a little luck you might be back in the 20's on your E2 in 6 - 8 weeks. It really depends on how much conversion is taking place in your body. I would run labs in 6 weeks to see where you sit.

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## flatscat

This is a great thread and one we all can learn from. Some key take aways from this:

1. Some folks don't convert easily and might not even need an a.i.. Those that do will see their numbers rebound pdq.

2. Some folks don't need the 1mg per 100mg of test as is so often said is a general rule of thumb.

3. It is always best to treat elevated e2 off of a confirmed lab result, and to start with a low dose.

4. You have to pay attention to and know your body. 

5. Imho, it is always best to be somewhat elevated than to be somewhat suppressed.

Hope your rebound happens soon!

flats

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## jamotech

Thanks vette and flats, its worth mentioning that this is another reason to get the E2 sensitive assay vs. total estrogens. For my pre-trt labs, a total only was done and it showed very high, causing me and the doc to go with a higher ai dose. If an E2 sensitive was done, it may have been night and day in comparison, to quote Crisler. 
Granted, I was suffering from moodiness that I attributed to high E2, as the AI had almost an immediate effect on my mental. I originally thought I was one to convert easily based on the total test, that doesn't seem to be the case now.

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## kelkel

Jamo I wanted to keep your thread going since it's relevent. Results came in today and E2 went from 15 up to just 16 in the last month. I feel good at that level and will ride it out for a while. More bw scheduled next month and will have doc write a couple extra scripts for more E2 testing to watch the progress. I'm obviously not converting much at this point.

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## bass

> Jamo I wanted to keep your thread going since it's relevent. Results came in today and E2 went from 15 up to just 16 in the last month. I feel good at that level and will ride it out for a while. More bw scheduled next month and will have doc write a couple extra scripts for more E2 testing to watch the progress. I'm obviously not converting much at this point.


wow only 1 point! what is the margin of error? LOL! Kel, thats great you don't convert, better for your health and pocket!

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## flatscat

Hey kel, are you doing sub q or twice weekly? I was thinking if so you could test the reverse "theory" about e2 and go to the old fashioned once a week intra muscular and see if that will raise it.

I just think at that level you are too low even of you feel okay. As you know we still need e for a plethora of things.

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## kelkel

Flats since starting injectables I've been doing twice weekly, one IM and one SQ.I don't think I can fathom the thought of that weekly drop. I'm pretty damn picky about this crap. I'm planning on boosting my T and adding some deca (doc prescribed) early spring so if it doesn't continue to rise on its own that should kick it up a bit. Been a learning experience for sure! Sure wish my initial doc would have gotten a baseline E test when this stuff began!

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## flatscat

Okay it was just a thought. Some of us don't have that crash on weekly. Either way this is unusual. What about foods that may help bump it up a little?

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## kelkel

Not really up on that but will research it. Pass on some knowledge if you will! I'm all T and low E!

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## jamotech

kel, have you thought about dropping the nolva? to go down only 1 point in a month, that nolva is working a little too well I think...

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## jamotech

and what dosage are you taking?

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## kelkel

I'm off the nolva (20mg) but it won't effect the total E, just prohibit it from binding to receptors in the breast area. Remember I was on the nolva while I went from 5 to 16.

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## flatscat

Not an expert either but you can look at broccoli and soy products to start with bro.

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## jamotech

True, just had to re-read the profile to remember!

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## Logonzo

Flax does as well, as per some studies.

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## kelkel

Broccoli and Soy, flax. Damn. No one will want to be in the room with me. I will look into it. Thanks guys. I will update this thread mid march after my next test and see if it takes another dramatic 1 point bump.

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## flatscat

Foods that increase estrogen in the body include: soybean products such as tofu and soy milk, lima beans, berries, apples, papaya, dates, plums, pomegranates, beets, eggplant, tomatoes, yams, olives, potatoes, barley, rice, hops, oats, wheat, flaxseeds, chickpeas, garlic, parsley, clover, split peas, sprouts and licorice.

Read more: Foods That Increase Estrogen in the Body | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_5066472_foods-increase-estrogen-body.html#ixzz1lzG6iYlg

lol let's see you work all of these into your diet....

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## kelkel

Toss them in the blender-hit puree and hope for the best!

Thanks Flats!

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## kelkel

BW just in again. E dropped from 16-15. (see post 2 & 8) No AI at all. It seems that my normal level is just naturally low. Anyone have any thoughts/experience with inherent low E? 

I know what a lot of you are thinking, great excuse to bump up the test!

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## abbot138

Just checking in kelkel....No thoughts or experience with inherent low E. But if you feel fine, joints, libido, boners, lol, then id say its definately possible. And if you dropped 1 point without any AI, then Ive got to believe this is close to a "normal" level for you. Where are your T levels at? As I mentioned to you in our PM my first reaction to all of this was to bump my test dose. Seems like if you are are under the normal range and could get away with a little more test it couldnt hurt to try.....I am into week two of no AI and 20mg Nolva. Going in for bloodwork next week im thinking. I know I should wait another week or two but my joints feel fine, libido is coming back, still feel a little bloated though and no middle of the night or morning wood. Basically getting a lot of mixed signals and I really want to know where I am at so I can adjust if needed. Its a beotch bc I dont want to let it get too high again because then Im just dealing with more sides and more time to get dialed in. I'd like to catch E2 slightly above normal, so I could start on a very low dose AI schedule like we discussed, then go back in a month.....One thing is for sure, I WILL NEVER CRASH AGAIN. Like you said, after all this Id rather be a little high than crashed.

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## bass

i think its time for a blast!

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## abbot138

> i think its time for a blast!


+1  :Wink:

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## ecdysone

My suggestion would be to use 2000IU HCG a week for several weeks.

That is, unless your balls blow up like a balloon!  :Smilie:

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## kelkel

^^^They're still on the small side from basically being shut down for so long w/o knowing it, thanks Mr. Adenoma. That is a thought Ecd to increase intratesticular E2 and see what it does..I see my doc next week and will discuss options.

Bass: So noted!

Abbott: I'd still give it the full month before testing. Stay on the nolva. Keep me/us posted please.

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## abbot138

Gotcha.....Will do.....you too.

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## jamotech

Interesting kel, I agree with Bass, time for a blast!  :Wink:  Ideal time for deca as the low E will help reduce(or eliminate) the chance of progesterone sides, at least that was the theory for myself. 

But seriously, your condition is something we can all learn from, Id be curious to see what an HRT doc says about the situation, or what his/her recommendations would be. Ecd does have an interesting suggestion to raise intratesticular E2, may be the only option besides raising your test dose?

Personally, I think I may have rebounded, first I noticed libido is back, no more joint pain. Hoping a blood test next week will confirm. Ill update the thread when I can give an accurate update, still fiddling with the ai dose as there seems to be a fine line between high and low E2 symptoms for my body. Ive been at .25 3x a week, half of what I was taking before. I also raised my test from 120mg a week to 150mg.

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## kelkel

Definitly keep this going with your numbers too Jamo. Side note if I ever need adex again I will probably compound it down to .125 to have more control.

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## jamotech

I was also thinking about having more control over the dose, cutting it into quarters isnt bad, but 8th's? I wish they made a .5mg tab, that would give us the .125 dose easily. My clinic has compounded .5mg CAPSULES, cant split those, what do you mean "compound it down"?

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## kelkel

Compounding pharmacy I use makes it from scratch to whatever dose you like. Or, they will take current pills and reduce them for you. Neat place. Doc writes it, they can make it. It's also a training facility for pharmacological students who are required to spend a certain amount of time there actually learning the chems from the ground up. Creating them from basic compounds, so to speak. Amazing place.

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## ConArmas

Thanks jamotech and kelkel for posting this. Unfortunately, I think I sunk my E2 and reading this is encouraging.

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## reporich

This is a great thread, plenty to learn. Im waiting for my blood work to come back to see where I'm at?. I've had brain fog the last few days,not fun.

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## kelkel

^^^Let us know where you guys land with your E2 please.

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## fjr02

Yes, this is a great thread.
Presently dealing with some progesterone conversion sides myself. I'm reading some good information here.
Nolvadex - hmm. I'll mention this to my doc.
Thanks

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## jamotech

> Yes, this is a great thread.
> Presently dealing with some progesterone conversion sides myself. I'm reading some good information here.
> Nolvadex - hmm. I'll mention this to my doc.
> Thanks


The Nolvadex will not help with progesterone sides, caber or prami will. Nolvadex is a serm and will block estrogen receptors in the breast, preventing or reversing gyno from ESTROGEN only, it will not prevent estradiol from aromatizing. However if you keep your estradiol in check with an AI, it will help prevent unwanted progesterone conversion, but if your already having progesterone sides then its too late for that and you need caber or prami.

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## jamotech

> Compounding pharmacy I use makes it from scratch to whatever dose you like. Or, they will take current pills and reduce them for you. Neat place. Doc writes it, they can make it. It's also a training facility for pharmacological students who are required to spend a certain amount of time there actually learning the chems from the ground up. Creating them from basic compounds, so to speak. Amazing place.


That is very neat! Interesting to find that compounding pharmas go back quite far in medical history, never heard of them at all until hrt.

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## abbot138

Estradiol 52!!! Pretty pumped. I went two weeks with no AI and my normal TRT dose of 140mg, then I bumped Test up to 300mg for a week to see what would happen. Started feeling better after a couple days, so I went against kelkel's advice (sorry  :Smilie:  ) and had my bloodwork done. Test was at 1440 which obviously needs to come down, but I really just wanted to take care of Estradiol as fast as possible. I will never crash it again, awful experience. Im going to drop my TRT dose to 120mg until my next bloodwork and will be starting Adex at .25mg 12 hours after Test shots (twice a week), and adjust from there.....Thanks again kel for all the help.

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## kelkel

If it works, it works! That is real interesting for those of us who have crashed E2! Shows how quickly you convert with the higher dosage. You learned alot about yourself on this journey and we all learned from you! What is your goal number and will you be able to monitor closely with BW to get there? Did you have your free T tested as well? 

I just had a doc visit myself and had him write me adex at .125 just in case I ever need it again. I spoke to him about inherent low E and he said some people are just that way, yet can still be nip sensitive as well, which seems to describe me.

And don't thank me. We all learn from each other here. It's what makes this forum great! Keep this thread alive with your progress Abbott!

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## abbot138

Yeah i definately seem to be the exact opposite as you, lol. I would like to be around 30, but with how easily I convert this might be hard to accomplish, or at least it will take some time to get dialed in with the right AI dose. Free test was 41.....I will be able to get bloodwork done frequently as I worked something out with a Dr friend of mine :Smilie:  Just gonna start nice and slow and if E2 has to be a little high for a while then so be it. I also think taking my Test dose down to 120 from 140 will help, plus some of the other things that you taught me with timing of HCG and AI doses. I will definately keep the thread going.

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## kelkel

Great! I'd really like to know how you actually feel throughout the process. Joints, libido, etc. That was definitely a "jump start" to your E level! I'll pm you when I have more time with an interesting concept I have...

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## flatscat

Hey kel ... Mine just came back at 8. geeze it's an epidemic lol.

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## kelkel

Damn flats! Never did like that "rule of thumb" and I've posted negatively about it many times (not that you adhered to that.) How are you feeling? What's your plan? Abbot did a quick re-boot that seemed to work for him!

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## flatscat

I am not feeling that great. Got there on .25 twice a week. I have always been a converter usually stayed around 30- 40 on that dose.

There should be NO rule of thumb when it comes to an ai dose.

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## bass

the conversion rate seems to fade a way after a while being on TRT. same here Flats, i seem to always hover at around 30-40, but not anymore! check out my new thread regarding blood work based on SQ no AI.

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## flatscat

I agree with that. Which is why adding proviron is so intriguing to me in place of an ai. Still don't think we ever got to the bottom of that discussion other than it ia difficult to obtain.

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## kelkel

Flats I've got a script for it but it's unobtainable in the US. Even though a US company makes it. Still searching......will advise...

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## flatscat

I am pretty sure if you have a legitimate rx you can have it filled from out of country.

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## jamotech

> the conversion rate seems to fade a way after a while being on TRT.


Agreed, seems like most knowledge of AI usage comes from cycle experience, and cycling dosent usually last more than 16 weeks. So, for our purposes, its still an unknown. Its possibly our bodys adapt over time, maybe producing less aromatize enzyme. Maybe...for some... its only needed when test levels are initially increased, then after 3-4 months the body starts to adjust to the high test by possibly producing less aromatize enzyme=less conversion? Just a thought.

As flats said its like an epidemic, are the anastrazole tabs overdosed nowadays? 

Id love to try proviron instead of adex, when I cycled I did sust 750-1000mg a week while on proviron- 50mg a day I think- and I was fine. I did use a little nolva, but the cycle before I did 500mg a week and 25 mg proviron a day-no nolva- and was fine. Id have to look up my old posts to be sure, some of my doses may be off.

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## jamotech

Will be updating this thread next week, getting BW saturday. Ive been close to getting an E2 test prior, however Ive been trying to find the right dose... or ratio of ai to test. Been on the same protocol for about 4 weeks now so it should be an accurate test. Ive felt my E2 get low a few times in between, usually about the same time after taking the AI. Im confident the numbers will be better now on this test!

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## bass

good, i look forward to see your BW.

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## jamotech

Well, E2 sensitive assay came in at 53, I feel pretty good. I am also on a blast, taking the blast into consideration E2 is just slightly high imo. Id like to see how I feel in the 40's. Currently on 250mg test C a week, with .5 mg of adex a week, both split doses. I am going to take .75 mg a week adex now, .25 after each test dose, the other .25 will get split up somewhere during the week(ill probably try breaking them up into 1/8's). I thought about taking .5mg after each test shot for 1mg total a week, but feel great and only had a nip itch here and there, so 1mg will probably be too much . GD came in with some good info from his doc that an itch here and there isn't bad. Ill try and get tested in 4-6 weeks. Since I posted this thread ive monitored and adjusted just based on overall feel, it was hard to get a test that would show a 4 week period of a consistent protocol. This one was, also same day and time of the week.

Having slightly high E2 definitely feels better than low E2, seems like the best advice nowadays is to err on the

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## bass

> Well, E2 sensitive assay came in at 53, I feel pretty good. I am also on a blast, taking the blast into consideration E2 is just slightly high imo. Id like to see how I feel in the 40's. Currently on 250mg test C a week, with .5 mg of adex a week, both split doses. I am going to take .75 mg a week adex now, .25 after each test dose, the other .25 will get split up somewhere during the week(ill probably try breaking them up into 1/8's). I thought about taking .5mg after each test shot for 1mg total a week, but feel great and only had a nip itch here and there, so 1mg will probably be too much . GD came in with some good info from his doc that an itch here and there isn't bad. Ill try and get tested in 4-6 weeks. Since I posted this thread ive monitored and adjusted just based on overall feel, it was hard to get a test that would show a 4 week period of a consistent protocol. This one was, also same day and time of the week.
> 
> Having slightly high E2 definitely feels better than low E2, seems like the best advice nowadays is to err on the


1/8! lol. yes e2 not bad. youre lucky you don,t conver easy.

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## jamotech

Yea Bass, less ai the better!

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## maelpj

In a way isn't Arimidex better than Aromasin for the simple fact that recovering for a crashed e2 caused by Dex would be lot faster than a crashed e2 caused my Aro?

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## jay adams

I feel like I just took a time machine to the past. Neat reading you guys figuring this stuff out.

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## bass

> In a way isn't Arimidex better than Aromasin for the simple fact that recovering for a crashed e2 caused by Dex would be lot faster than a crashed e2 caused my Aro?


Aromasin has less sides, and it sway more $$$$$ than arimidex .

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## Remington

How do you know when your E3 levels have crashed?
What are the tell tale signs?
Other than bloodwork, is there a feeling one gets?

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## bass

> How do you know when your E3 levels have crashed?
> What are the tell tale signs?
> Other than bloodwork, is there a feeling one gets?


this has been discussed many times here, do some search I am sure you'll find lost of threads.

most prominent sides,

HIGH......
bloating,
low libido
tired
itchy nips (gyno if stays high for too long)


LOW......
achy joints
muscle pain and cramps
dry looking skin
low libido
low energy

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## Bigboybodybuilder

> Jamo I'm still recovering from it. I was at less than 3 at 1.5mg ai per week. Cut it in half, retested one month later at 5. Went totally off the ai and started Nolva. Next test one month later was at 15. Another month passed by and I just retested again. Results should be in tomorrow and I'm hoping to be in the 20's. Made a world of difference with joint pain/libido (there's a joke there.) Anyway, I highly recommend the serm to get you through this process if your having any sensitivity issues.
> 
> Crashing it happens fast. Restoring it takes time.



I know a old thread mate 

What sides did u get with low e2 ?

I didnt know if had low or high e2 

Had no sex drive loss of appetite 
Felt panic in mornings with anxiety 

No morning wood or sex drive 

Took 1 mg of arimidex before bed to see what 
Would happen was a horribale night 
Night sweats could not sleep at all but was so tired kinda felt scared to get out of bed 

Was even taken cialis and was not working and been told cialis does not work with low e2 

Got out of bed and injected 1500 ui of hcg and injected my t dose of 62.5 mg 
Two hours later felt better and and had sex 

Guess the hcg spiked my e2 to make me feel better 

I think it so hard to tell from high and low even with bloods

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