# STEROIDS FORUM > SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators) Information Forum >  SARMs Article : Uses, benefits and general compound info *A newbie must read*

## Juced_porkchop

Today I want to talk about an AMAZING type of compound that has been growing immensely in popularity and use!

What is it?

SARMS !!!!!!

No not SERMS like Tamox or Clomid!

SARMS! 

*SARM's stands for---> Selective androgen receptor modulators.


*Why would I care about that?*

Well they have some of the same kind of effects as anabolic steroids and other compounds that affect the androgen receptor. SARMs are more selective in their action then most steroids on the market currently and give much less side effects that are usually seen with these steroids.
The discovery of this new class of drugs is amazing not just to bodybuilders and power lifters, but to people in all walks of life.
Beneficial use could be from a simple old guy (or young guy like me) on HRT or a person having bone issues or even for something very life threatening like a women fighting for her life with breast cancer! 
There are a lot of clinical applications for SARMS and possibly a lot more that we have not discovered yet.[1]

I find this so exciting because in my opinion this is just the start in the development of SARMs.

I guess, "Just the tip of the ice berg" you could say.

That's not meant to sound like we don't already have great SARMs already, we do!


We have some very amazing SARMs out right now and although none are legally on the market for general human use, if you know where to look, they do seem to be readily available now on the black market.
It is nice to think that soon HRT might just be 1 oral SARM dose a day and for some that might mean a lot if they do not like getting a shot every 1-2 weeks or rubbing on creams daily for HRT and that's besides the side effects part of it all.

There are the side effects of HRT that some people have issues with, for example someone with prostate issues (or even cancer) on HRT, well then the use of testosterone for HRT could be very troublesome for a person in that condition. 
With a SARM that person could possibly use the SARM for his HRT treatment while limiting the effects on the prostate and maybe even helping it. There might even be a male oral contraceptive on its way![2]


Now I am no female, but I can only imagine the wonderful uses SARMS could have for women!

Think about it, just about every treatment for muscle wasting and hormonal issues are treated with... well hormones! 
For a women loosing muscle mass, bone mass, has declining hormones or even less energy due to these issues could benefit greatly with SARMS and with limited side effects when compared to other hormone treatment.
For women using hormones, side effects could be (and more times than not) much worse for them than men. Women can develop an enlarged clitoris, body/facial hair and even a deepened voice!

For a women that could be devastating and to use hormones at an amount high enough to combat for eg. muscle wasting effectively, more times than not women seem to experience one or more of these side effects.

Now with SARMs there is a chance at not only helping female bodybuilders gain mass with limited side effects, but also treat the very ill and needy while limiting the side effects on females.
There can still be side effects for women, and especially at high doses of SARMS, but this would be a lot less so compared to most steroids currently available. 


*OK, OK, sounds great, but how is it so orally active yet not liver toxic like just about all other oral steroids out there?*

Since SARMs are manmade and not actually a hormone they do not need to be methylated/17aa to make the hormone to be orally active, which is usually why it is liver toxic to begin with. SARM's provide the opportunity to design molecules that can be delivered orally without making them liver toxic. This is great due to the fact just about every oral hormone seems to be liver toxic due to the alterations made to the hormone making it more orally active and effective.


*To understand how a SARM works you need to have a bit of an understanding about the androgen receptor, so here is a bit of info on that:

Androgens and Androgen receptors*  
The androgen receptor plays a big role in the function of many organs in the body including sexual organs, skeletal muscle, and bone. Androgen receptors let the body to respond to androgens in the body and androgen receptors are in a lot of the body's tissues.
When the androgen binds to the androgen receptor it regulates the activity of androgen responsive genes by turning them on or off. The androgens and their receptors help direct the development of male sexual characteristics during puberty. 
But that's not the only thing they do, androgens also have other very important functions in males and females like controlling hair growth, mood, energy, cognitive function and sex drive (amongst other things).[3]


*So a SARM is an ANDROGEN?*

NO!

Some crazy ass scientist's figured out how to active the receptors without even using an androgen at all!
That's the beauty of it; SARMS are on a whole new level!

Over MANY years scientists have toyed with steroids to limit their side effects and utilize the effects they want from them. 
I mean just about all AAS are just an altered form of testosterone, DHT or prog!
It has been many years and they still don't have a "perfect steroid "! >: - (


Now with SARMS on the other hand, they have just started toying with them and we are already this far! If you think of it like that, I can only imagine how advanced we will be with SARM's in the coming years. 
I am very excited about this fact! That's not to say AAS is crap. I love testosterone myself and am on HRT. I love how it makes me feel and the help in recovery it gives me (on HRT or on cycle) But to be able to possibly use a SARM as full blown HRT treatment along with boosting sex drive and be a contraceptive and to be all orally taken, it is just amazing to me!

How I see it is there may even be quite a few SARMs to pick from sometime soon for HRT treatment.

*What do I mean?*

Ok let me try to explain my theory with 3 "made up" SARM's for HRT use:

SARM1: HRT treatment SARM with closest possible effects to testosterone, without the negative side effects.


SARM2: HRT treatment SARM with effects like testosterone but altered to boost libido much higher and also be an oral contraceptive


SARM3: HRT/muscle wasting SARM with effects like that of testosterone, but with a much higher anabolic activity. For use with HRT and/or muscle wasting patients.


The above is just me explain my theory, Please don't PM me asking where to get them lol.


What I am getting at is we may have an option for "many flavours" of SARMs depending on our personality, goals or conditions!
I think that's FREAKING AWESOME!!!

If you could cut down the amount of medications and treat more than one condition with just one drug that is not even liver toxic AND with less side effects is just amazing! 


*So what SARM's are out there then?*

Well there is many and many still being made. I am going to talk about the 2 most popular and currently used and they are called Ostarine (or MK-2866) and Andarine (or S-4).

These SARMs very a bit in their effects but both will get the job done for those of us that are into powerlifting or bodybuilding.


*So whats the deal of these two SARMs?*


Here is a short description on them:

*MK-2866 :*
Ostarine is a selective androgen receptor modulator developed by GTx Inc for treatment of conditions like muscle wasting and osteoporosis. Ostarine is an orally active, potent and selective agonist for androgen receptors shown in animal and human studies to have anabolic effects in both muscle and bone. It has an androgenic potency around 1/3rd of its anabolic potency. It was shown in vitro to increase the ratio of osteoblast formation from bone marrow osteoprogenitor cells, and reduced the number of new osteoclasts formed. It produced dose-dependent increases in bone mineral density and mechanical strength in vivo, as well as decreasing body fat and increasing lean body mass.[4] Human trials have shown promising efficacy and with a long half-life in humans of about 24 hours.[5] Ostarine has also gone through human trials up to Phase II with positive results.[6]
Dosing: 10-40mg ed seems to be the norm in its black market use for muscle building effects.


*S-4 :*  
Andarine is an orally active agonist for androgen receptors. In an animal model of benign prostatic hypertrophy, Andarine was shown to reduce prostate weight with similar efficacy to Finasteride, but without producing any reduction in muscle mass or anti-androgenic side effects. This suggests that it is able to block binding of dihydrotestosterone to its receptor targets in the prostate gland, but its partial agonist effects at androgen receptors prevent the side effects associated with the anti-androgenic drugs traditionally used for treatment of BPH. Studies showed that Andarine is rapidly absorbed and highly bioavailable after oral doses capable of maximal pharmacologic activity. The favorable pharmacokinetics of Andarine permits convenient low doses and show that it is a strong candidate for continued clinical development.[7] A common side effect is slightly yellow colored vision and night blindness, but these side effects diminish around 5-6 days after last dose. 
Dosing: 30-100mg ed, 1-2X a day is the norm for black market use for muscle building effects.



Ok so now that I covered the basics on what the hell a SARM is and how they even work if they are not hormones, I will move on to how you can cycle these.

There is A LOT of debate on what is the best way to use these compounds (I mean for the most part medical human use it limited so) but I along with many others have personal experience with these compounds. So Combined with my years of research, personal experience (and of others) I will base these cycles of what I feel is the most effective yet safe way to go about it. 

Now there is a lot of debate (more so in the past) that SARM's do not shut you down, I believe this to be untrue. 
They may be VERY VERY mild in this regard and lower doses you may not even notice shut down at all, but they can cause shut down so keep PCT in mind and/or on hand as a possibility.
I rec a small PCT anyway if you are using them more than 4-6weeks at a time, just to be safe.


Some may argue to limit its use to 4 weeks, while others recommend much more. I found for optimal results with no added side effects (that I noticed or from others reports) that 6-8weeks min and 8-10wks avg is a good amount of time to run these SARM's. 
I personally like 8-10wks of osta. 
*Also since we do not exactly have a long term use record of them, it is best to be on the safer side* 



*SARMS CYCLES:*

*S-4 cycle:*
Wk1-6 25mg ed 2X a day = 50mg total


*Osta cycle:*
Wk1-8 25mg ed



HA, very simple when compared to AAS cycles is it not? :-)

If you feel like you may need a PCT then 2-3 weeks of low dosed Tamox (10mg ed) or Clomid (20-30mg ed) should help. 

Most should be fine with just OTC supplemental help post cycle to aid in recovery.


I truly hope this information helps someone out that is new to SARMs or did not understand them. 



Hope you enjoyed!!!




Take care












References:
1)	Selective androgen receptor modulators in preclinical and clinical development. Ramesh Narayanan, Michael L. Mohler, Casey E. Bohl, Duane D. Miller, and James T. Dalton Selective androgen receptor modulators in preclinical and clinical development
2)	A SARM for Horomonal Male Contraception http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/conten...2/546.full.pdf
3)	J Endocrinol Invest. 2003;26(3 Suppl):23-8. Sexual differentiation. Sinisi AA, Pasquali D, Notaro A, Bellastella A. Sexual differentiation. [J Endocrinol Invest. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI
4)	Kearbey JD, Gao W, Narayanan R, Fisher SJ, Wu D, Miller DD, Dalton JT. Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator (SARM) treatment prevents bone loss and reduces body fat in ovariectomized rats. Pharmaceutical Research. 2007 Feb;24(2):328-35. PMID 17063395
5)	Gao W, Kim J, Dalton JT. Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of nonsteroidal androgen receptor ligands. Pharmaceutical Research. 2006 Aug;23(8):1641-58. PMID 16841196
6)	GTx Announces That Ostarine Achieved Primary Endpoint Of Lean Body Mass And A Secondary Endpoint Of Improved Functional Performance Discovery and therapeutic promise of selective androgen receptor modulators. Chen J, Kim J, Dalton JT.Source Division of Pharmaceutics,College of Pharmacy, The Ohio State University, Columbus, Ohio 43210, USA. Discovery and therapeutic promise of selective an... [Mol Interv. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI

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## Anaholic

I'm looking at ar-r 's sarms and thinking i might give it a shot!

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## MooseMacD

Nice post. Willing to give SARMs a shot once I stop taking SSRIs in a few months. My training is going well anyways so I'm in no rush.

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## Juced_porkchop

> Nice post. Willing to give SARMs a shot once I stop taking SSRIs in a few months. My training is going well anyways so I'm in no rush.


Thanks!
Slow and steady is the way to go man, Good luck!

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## happysumo

Damn...another great write up by Juced!

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## Juced_porkchop

Thanks alot! :-) 

Hey if anything I know or think may help someone then I am ALL for it!

Anyone feel free to pm me if you think my input may help or you have a general question. I don't mind, I like helping if i can.

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## RaginCajun

Do you think it will help out with degenerative discs? I have broken my right humerous bone twice, with bone cysts (hollow bone) being the culprit, once when I was 11 and again at 13.

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## jwh7699

Do you currently use SARMS in replace of TRT? Thanks!!!

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## Juced_porkchop

> Do you think it will help out with degenerative discs? I have broken my right humerous bone twice, with bone cysts (hollow bone) being the culprit, once when I was 11 and again at 13.


I am not 100% sure on your condition but I know I have back issues from an old car accident and have bulging/pressing disks in my back/spine and other issues like loss of fluid. I believe the SARMS helped/help with it. But it didnt "FIX" anything.
Im sure it helped though.
May help your body keep up with ware down.

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## RaginCajun

> I am not 100% sure on your condition but I know I have back issues from an old car accident and have bulging/pressing disks in my back/spine and other issues like loss of fluid. I believe the SARMS helped/help with it. But it didnt "FIX" anything.
> Im sure it helped though.
> May help your body keep up with ware down.



i am about to start some ipamorelin and mod 129 to see if it helps out as well. thanks for the info!

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## Shsm

Great post.

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## Leisure Suite Larry

Can SARMS be run whilst on the gear?

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## supergonzo

So I have an eyedropper full of MK-2866 SARMS its 25mg per dropper full. Any suggestions on how and with what to take it with?? With food?? With Drink?? With nothing at all??

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## Juced_porkchop

> Can SARMS be run whilst on the gear?


Yes is can, i ran MK on cycle before but i believed it nicer with it then without it, but found it more noticeable with my hrt (so maybe as its own cycle to people not on hrt). 
but would and mostl likly will do it on and off cycle.
I got a few more bottles tucked away. :-)

but it could very well be used in place of an oral like some use at start of a cycle. 
I sure don't see why not.

too new to redirect you to a million studies sry lol

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## Juced_porkchop

> So I have an eyedropper full of MK-2866 SARMS its 25mg per dropper full. Any suggestions on how and with what to take it with?? With food?? With Drink?? With nothing at all??


I would make a thread about this to get more feed back and so others dont miss it.

But how i would rec it:
6-10wks 25-50mg ed

I don't think it matters much on with or without food.
but I take almost everything WITH food myself.

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## Wil_0016

Can someone help me! Thinking of buying SARMS from www.extrememusclejuice.com, can someone please tell me
If this product will help me with lean muscle gains. This product has ostarine in it 20mg a serve is this a good product???

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## Sisonpyh

I think a PCT should be ran to be safe and cholesterol support. 

ergo-log. com/enobosarmtrial.html

"Doctors hope that SARMs don't suppress the body's own testosterone synthesis in men. From the table below  which only shows data on the men in the study  it appears that ostarine does do this a little." This was with a 3 mg dose, so for those running 10, 15, 30 mg it would surely increase.

"It seems likely that ostarine, like 17alpha-methyl steroids , causes some amount of liver damage. In Dalton's study, the concentration of the enzyme alanine-aminotransferase [ALT] rose in twenty percent of the subjects. A high ALT level can indicate liver damage."


www.ncbi.nlm.nih. gov/pmc/articles/PMC3177042/

"the general HDL decrease is still of some concern as this is a proof that there are still (unwanted) side (and not tissue-selective) effects of this novel non-steroidal selective androgen modulator. Likewise, the increase in overall hemoglobin levels should not be overseen."

<25 posts so adjust links. Thoughts?

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## Juced_porkchop

> I think a PCT should be ran to be safe and cholesterol support. 
> 
> ergo-log. com/enobosarmtrial.html
> 
> "Doctors hope that SARMs don't suppress the body's own testosterone synthesis in men. From the table below – which only shows data on the men in the study – it appears that ostarine does do this a little." This was with a 3 mg dose, so for those running 10, 15, 30 mg it would surely increase.
> 
> "It seems likely that ostarine, like 17alpha-methyl steroids , causes some amount of liver damage. In Dalton's study, the concentration of the enzyme alanine-aminotransferase [ALT] rose in twenty percent of the subjects. A high ALT level can indicate liver damage."
> 
> 
> ...


as mild as it is i agree a light PCT might be a good idea for some/most. but at same time its one of the only anabolic compounds (other then peptides) that i would say PCT is not a BIG worry. but if you got some Clomi on hand then yeah man run 30-50mg for a couple weeks just for the extra help. I would NOT say that about AAS cycles as i feel its too much of a negative when we have PCT meds very easily found nowadays.

I dont agree on the liver damage part, need more data though I would say. (creatine/creatinine levels are also looked at for liver stress in blood work, but taking a scoop of creatine before blood test does not make that so or fact. there is more to it)

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## Sisonpyh

Thank you for the response, just wanted to clarify with some of the information out there. Good point on liver damage, didn't think about that.

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## Juced_porkchop

> Thank you for the response, just wanted to clarify with some of the information out there. Good point on liver damage, didn't think about that.


NO PROB! 
I am happy my words are of any help!
I am humble :-)

Take care

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## Newby2013

Hello and great info on here. I am new to the forum. I am 38 years old 5ft 11 and 235 with 32% BF I use to work out a ton in my 20s but let myself go with the wife kids mortgage ext.... 

I have been lurking for a few months just trying to get some info. I started working out 3 months ago and trying to get my diet right. Lost 16 pounds but have slowed down. Thinking of adding clen and was reading about S4 should I wait to take S4 until I get my BF % down or will it help me to get where I want to be?

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## Juced_porkchop

I would wait till at 20-15%BF before using the S4. 
At that point it will help you hold on to muscle.
Right now I would rec a T3/clen +keto combo or even just t3.
The S4 is very nice but at this point fatloss and diet are key. not so much losign the last little bit what might eat into muscle.

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## Granovich

so do you include it in your PCT ? or during the cycle so you just do one PCT for cycle and the SARMS ?
also do you use one of them or both ?
thank you

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## Juced_porkchop

> so do you include it in your PCT ? or during the cycle so you just do one PCT for cycle and the SARMS ?
> also do you use one of them or both ?
> thank you



A SERM is for PCT, the "SARM" think of as its own mini cycle. if you do an aas cycle + a sarm then yes one PCT, if you do an aas cycle, a pct, then a sarm- you also do a pct at the end. aas/PCT/SARM/PCT.

SARM are not SERMS that are used in PCT. I have a feeling your a bit confused. think of SARM more like steroids with lass sides in some regards. but this is a blunt statement.

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## Push50

Interesting info thanks for the time you put into this.

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## tigerspawn

Bump

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## dlou

hey guys new to this forum, but have a few questions on sarms . I bought the s4 from arr because ive read good things about it and have used other products from arr with good results. then I read a few posts on people taking the s4 with the MK-2866....... could I and is it ok to run the 2 together? or, is it just a waste and should they be kept separate? if beneficial to run together, how would you do it and what doses? im 5-10 185lbs.....THANKS

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## Juced_porkchop

> hey guys new to this forum, but have a few questions on sarms. I bought the s4 from arr because ive read good things about it and have used other products from arr with good results. then I read a few posts on people taking the s4 with the MK-2866....... could I and is it ok to run the 2 together? or, is it just a waste and should they be kept separate? if beneficial to run together, how would you do it and what doses? im 5-10 185lbs.....THANKS



Yeah arr is good, I use them all the time. 
I have also seen that aswell and you COULD do it, but using one is enough on its own. if anything save the other and run that on its own.

its almost sort of like wanting to run teste and tescyp, they are very alike IMO

so you COULD, but I would run them on there own personally. or atleast each on their own then together to see what YOU like best.

higher dose in total would = possibly more gains but keeping both at lower dose to have the same total dose, might not be that much different.

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## 77lizardking

since taking osteron for 4 weeks as well as running deca and test prop I've got this rash on my hands, I've been safely running courses on and off 6 years now with no side effects. Do you think this could be a reaction to sarms ?

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