# FITNESS and NUTRITION FORUM > SUPPLEMENTS >  M1t FAQ

## nsa

In this post i am attempting to answer the questions that are frequently asked about m1t to alleviate from many redundant posts about M1T. 

Methyl 1-testosterone , or 17aa-1-testosterone, is the methylated version of the steroid 1-testosterone. This structural modification makes steroids much more orally bioavailable by inhibiting breakdown in the liver. Although it has only been widely available for a short period of time, feedback on this compound indicates that it may be the most effective legal prohormone/steroid product on the market regardless of delivery method, and it is hands down the most effective oral product. On the other hand, most users report a wealth of side effects, and this compound is not to be taken lightly. It does not have a long history of use or a well-established safety profile, and proper precautions should be taken.

The profile of methyl 1-test is similar to that of 1-test  it does not convert to estrogen, and it is highly anabolic and moderately androgenic (less than 1-test). When compared to orally administered methyltestosterone , methyl 1-test is 910-1600% as anabolic and 100-220% as androgenic. 

The side effects reported by users of methyl 1-test are many and individual reactions vary considerably. The most commonly reported side effect is lethargy, which can range from mild to severe. Other common side effects include increased blood pressure, bloating, joint pains, cramps, mild headaches, insomnia, aggressiveness, and irritability. Many users also find that methyl 1-test decreases appetite, which can be harmful or beneficial depending on one's goals. These side effects can be reduced by lowering dosage or taking smaller doses more frequently. Combining it with another androgen (such as 4-AD) may also help, but feedback on this is limited. 

Another concern with methyl 1-test (and methylated steroids in general) is hepatotoxicity. Although this tends to be exaggerated, it is still prudent to take certain precautions. First and foremost, other substances that are toxic to the liver (such as alcohol) should be avoided to avoid placing extra stress on the liver. If methyl 1-test is stacked, it would be best to stack it with something other than an oral steroid/prohormone, such as a transdermal. Milk thistle, alpha lipoic acid, and N-acetyl-cysteine are commonly recommended to help protect the liver. For further information on 17aa steroids and hepatotoxicity, see the following article: 

Hepatotoxicity: Fact or Fiction, by Roy Harper

When taking methyl 1-test, it is best to start out with at least a week at a dose of 5-10 mg to see how one reacts. Many users find this range to be effective, while others feel the ideal amount is 20-40 mg. It comes down to the experience, goals, and individual reaction. Many find a lower dose to be just as effective as a higher one, but with less side effects. With a compound such as this, it is generally best to be on the side of caution, especially for those that are less experienced with steroids. Most seem to find their ideal dose to be in the 10-30 mg range. Cycle length should be kept short, in the range of 1-4 weeks. Finally, it is especially important to take adequate time off after each cycle with this substance to allow the body to recover.

M1t will not aromatize to estrogen. So there is no need to run any anti-estrogen during the m1t cycle, unless Your stacking with 4-ad or testosterone of some sort, in which case you should use a SERM if your prone to gyno, but don't really need to use a SERM if you know your not prone to gyno and are running a low dose of either.

Common side effects of cycling M1T include:
Liver toxicity
Lethargy
Loss of appetite
Increase in blood pressure
Very distinct muscle pumps
Supressed HPTA
Decrease in blood sugar levels

Common countermeasures to the most common side effects are:
Liver toxicity - Milk thistle
Lethargy - 4-ad or any testosterone
Loss of appetite - B-12
Increase in blood pressure - Hawthorne berry extract
blood sugar levels - Keep your carb intake at a healthy level

If liver toxicity is a major concern during the 4 weeks of the ON cycle period, you should use milk thistle at approzimately 1 gram ED. However, liver toxicity should not be an issue if you use 10 mg of m1t ED, as is suggested. And i can not stress enough that 10 mg of m1t is all users need to make serious gains.

Supressed HPTA can be helped during a cycle by supplementing with tribulus, but only to a certain extent, its not going to keep you at your normal level of test production, its only going to help keep your testicles around their normal size.

Very distinct muscle pumps can not be helped, for most people this isn't a problem, you should enjoy getting an insane pump, but for others this is a problem because they do other activities that require them to not have very pumped muscles.

The blood sugar issue makes using m1t for cutting a bad idea. Cutting carbs like alot of people do when they are cutting is also going to make your lethargy really bad.

A sample cycle of M1t (this is merely a guideline):


Weeks 1-4: 10 mg ED of M1t
Weeks 1-4: 400 mg ED of transdermal 4-ad
Weeks 1-4: 1500 mg ED of hawthorne berry extract

PCT:
Weeks 5-8: 40 mg ED of Nolvadex for the first two weeks, Then down to 20 mg ED of Nolvadex
Weeks 5-8: Clomid Therapy, 300 mg of clomid first day, 100 mg of clomid next 10 days, 50 mg of clomid for final 10 days of clomid therapy.
Weeks 5-8: Milk Thistle 1000 mg of milk thistle ED 

Users using a cycle either exactly like this or similar to this are commonly reporting 15-20 pounds in LBM. Most of which can be maintained with the proper PCT.

Not required for pct but alot of people like to supplement with creatine and/or clenbuterol during pct to maintain strength and mass gains.

Underground labs is the best value for m1t. Since it is all the same compound you should go with the cheapest brand, because it is the same compound and one molecule of m1t can not be better or worse than the next molecule.

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## LM1332

never whahaha

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## Darkness

Good post, I'm gonna be doing that exact cycle he mentioned there. Lets keep this one on top.

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## Fartdaemon

Good Good

I will reffer the thousands of M1T questions I get to this thread!

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## nsa

Anyone notice how the questions in the supplement forum have dimished alot since the posting of the faq's recently?

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## LeanMeOut

Sticky????

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## LeanMeOut

Bump....

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## flexin-rph

Thanks for the info...I just placed my order for this exact cycle....
Will let you know how it goes!!!!!

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## nsa

Bump for newbs....

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## Z2001

PCT:
Weeks 5-8: 40 mg ED of Nolvadex for the first two weeks, Then down to 20 mg ED of Nolvadex
Weeks 5-8: Clomid Therapy, 300 mg of clomid first day, 100 mg of clomid next 10 days, 50 mg of clomid for final 10 days of clomid therapy.
Weeks 5-8: Milk Thistle 1000 mg of milk thistle ED
Do you need all of these supp for your PCT or just or just 1 of the 3 for the 5-8 week?...Sorry im new to this,I had to ask.
 :Don't know:

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## nsa

Yes, you need all of them if you want to keep your gains and have a normal liver.

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## Z2001

Thanks

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## bad_man

According to the above post, I can buy m1t over the counter but I'll need to find a source for the products needed for PCT. Since I currently do not have a source - and have no desire to find one - should I forget about using m1t? Or are there other (perhaps less effective) products that can be purchased legally for PCT?

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## Spoon

> According to the above post, I can buy m1t over the counter but I'll need to find a source for the products needed for PCT. Since I currently do not have a source - and have no desire to find one - should I forget about using m1t? Or are there other (perhaps less effective) products that can be purchased legally for PCT?



bro i just ordered some m1t and some nolva, clomid for pct. no problem getting pct supplies. they all were delivered to my country today :Smilie:  why dont you have a desire to find a source for pct supplies? you can purhase them legally from research companies.

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## bad_man

Well, maybe I'm misunderstanding. I thought clomid and nolva were only available via the black market in the USA. I may be more open to purchasing this way next year when i get my green card, but for now I'm not doing anything that could get me in a little trouble, not even jaywalking.

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## Spoon

> Well, maybe I'm misunderstanding. I thought clomid and nolva were only available via the black market in the USA. I may be more open to purchasing this way next year when i get my green card, but for now I'm not doing anything that could get me in a little trouble, not even jaywalking.


yes it is available in the blackmarket BUT these research companies sell it legally for research purposes only. thats the loophole :Smilie:  anyway just pm me if you need the pct companies.

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## bad_man

nsa, excelent post!!

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## Spoon

> nsa, excelent post!!


check your pms man. good luck :Smilie:

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## Z2001

Is Novedex the same as Nolvadex ??

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## jerseykid23

> Is Novedex the same as Nolvadex??


Ha, yes. Nolvadex is the correct spelling.

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## nsa

Im guessing that the novedex your talking about is something like clomafen is to clomid, not the real thing but it claims to have to same effects even though it doesn't.

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## Z2001

I bought all of this:
M1t
Transdermal 4-ad
Hawthorne berry extract
Milk Thistle

I just cant seem to find any of the 
Clomid or Nolvadex 
 :Don't know:

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## Spoon

> I bought all of this:
> M1t
> Transdermal 4-ad
> Hawthorne berry extract
> Milk Thistle
> 
> I just cant seem to find any of the 
> Clomid or Nolvadex


check your pms man.

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## daman1

> I bought all of this:
> M1t
> Transdermal 4-ad
> Hawthorne berry extract
> Milk Thistle
> 
> I just cant seem to find any of the 
> Clomid or Nolvadex


Alert the scammers!!

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## Spoon

> Yes, you need all of them if you want to keep your gains and have a normal liver.


bro if m1t makes you hella lethargic even with 4ad, how are you suppose to work out like mad when you go to the gym? do you just force yourself to lift or what? i cannot picture it.

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## nsa

I force myself to lift, with 400 mg of 4-ad the lethargy shouldn't be too bad.

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## Z2001

Anyone use Estrodex before,IM still having problem finding Nolvadex

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## Spoon

> Anyone use Estrodex before,IM still having problem finding Nolvadex


sorry bro never tried it. 

guys im on day 2 m1t i dont feel lethargic at all, a bit spaced out is all the sides, so far so good, il keep my fingers crossed!

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## nsa

I don't feel the effects of m1t until like day 4 or 5.

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## Z2001

keep us up dated on what kind of results you get.Good luck  :Strong Smiley:

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## Z2001

Is LGP 4-AD + in Squits (240ml per 2 squits skin rub on) any good, thats what i was sent when i ordered the 4 AD,Or Do i need to place another order to get it in a pill form?? Thanks for the help!

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## nsa

It should be good, How many mg/ml is it?

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## Z2001

Supplement Facts:

Serving Size: 2 mL
Servings Per Container: 120

Amount Per Serving:

17a-Methyl-4-Androstene-3, 17b-diol
Amount Per Serving: 4.2mg

4-Androstene-4, 17b-ol-3-one
Amount Per Serving: 25mg

4-Androstene-3, 17b-diol
Amount Per Serving: 50mg

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## nsa

I would say 5 squirts ED.

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## Z2001

Ok sounds good, thanks for the help nsa

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## nsa

No problem.

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## nsa

Bump

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## nsa

Bump for the newbies still asking questions without researching...

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## midget408

I'm only 130 lbs. 5'8'' - what kind of dosage do you guys recomend me taking? I'm new to this - just barely hitting the gym. I'd like to gain 20 lbs. Wonder if this is possible.

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## nsa

Dose i'd recomend, NONE. Don't take this until you have trained for a long time, you shouldn't even take 1-ad/4-ad stack until you've been training for a while. You still have plenty of growth to obtain naturally, just get your diet and training in check, start supplementing with whey, multivitamin and creatine and you'll see more gains than you ever thought you could gain.

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## OSTIE

Sorry if I didnt read good enough to answer my own question or if its just a dumb question regardless, but why hawthorne berry extract? What doest this do?

Thanks,

-ost

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## nsa

It helps reagulate your BP so it doesn't shoot up and give you problems while on cycle.

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## OSTIE

> It helps reagulate your BP so it doesn't shoot up and give you problems while on cycle.


Sweet thanks.... can this stuff be found at most nutrition stores??

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## OwnItOnDVD

Great post NSA. Just refereed some peeps from bodybuilding.com forums to it.

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## zedly

NSA great advice.. it makes no sense to take prohormones for bulking unless you are consistently working out hard, have the dedication to pound food 5-6 times a day healthy with tons of protein, and plan on living this way for a long, long time. The quick fix will feel good on the way up.....but will feel a hundred times worst (body and mind) on the way down.

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## Spoon

> Sweet thanks.... can this stuff be found at most nutrition stores??



yes you can, its otc

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## Z2001

Spoon, How you making out?

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## Spoon

> Spoon, How you making out?



i am great, i dont get the lethargic sides at all, i guess i plateud and got used to it, i actually feel energized. anyway one week up i gained around 6 lbs in weight but i got leaner as well so i probably gained more lbm. so far so good, i am very happy with my results, 3 more weeks, it can only get better :Smilie: (

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## nsa

I've been telling you guys how good this stuff is, most people just say 'no way he could gain that much lbm in 4 weeks', but i did and other people are gaining just as well.

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## Spoon

> I've been telling you guys how good this stuff is, most people just say 'no way he could gain that much lbm in 4 weeks', but i did and other people are gaining just as well.


thanks bro its really that good im really happy with it. its lightning it a bottle literally :Smilie:

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## Booyah

> Yes, you need all of them if you want to keep your gains and have a normal liver.


Thats alot for PCT for methyl 1-test. Here's what I did...

10mg nolva everyday just in case (M1-T doesnt aromatize anyway, but its good to be safe right? )

clomid PCT...300/100/50

and milk thistle...but a gram of milk thistle a day, thats alot to be taking...Liver damage IMO is over-rated. It's one of the toughest organs. I had blood tests done before and after my M1-T cycle and I was perfectly fine...But everyone reacts different. This isnt meant as a flame bro, just to get your side of why so much is used for PCT as well.

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## Booyah

> yes you can, its otc


Didnt they pull M1-T from the shelves though? I just buy it from 1fast400.com

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## nsa

I always try and be on the safe side, i personally do all this stuff to be healthy, so the last thing i want is to have a vital organ not functioning. As for the 10 mg ED of nolvadex while on cycle there is no need. Its a waste of nolvadex IMO. And it is still being sold, was not yanked from the shelves.

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## Spoon

> Didnt they pull M1-T from the shelves though? I just buy it from 1fast400.com


i was reffering to the milk thistle otc. yes they pulled m1t of the shelves, i got mine from bulk nutrition as well.

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## Spoon

> I always try and be on the safe side, i personally do all this stuff to be healthy, so the last thing i want is to have a vital organ not functioning. As for the 10 mg ED of nolvadex while on cycle there is no need. Its a waste of nolvadex IMO. And it is still being sold, was not yanked from the shelves.



how do you know when to up the dose of m1t or is the 200lbs> 10mg> a golden rule?

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## Z2001

IM doing M1t 7 days,today, i really have no gain should i up the dose from 10 to 20 or should just give it more time Also do you think the 4 AD skin rub on maybe isnt work as it should? I must be doing somethin wrong?

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## nsa

Use the transdermal on a spot that has little to no fat and nor hair.

It takes a few days for m1t to kick in. The dose depends on your weigth. What are your stats?

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## SickNasty

I am hearing about 2 week cycles over at anabolic mind, Just wondering if this is even beneficial because wouldn't you just run for 4 weeks if your test is shutdown anyway.

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## RockyX

> I always try and be on the safe side, i personally do all this stuff to be healthy, so the last thing i want is to have a vital organ not functioning. As for the 10 mg ED of nolvadex while on cycle there is no need. Its a waste of nolvadex IMO. And it is still being sold, was not yanked from the shelves.


Are you saying that it is a wast to use the nolva while on M1T. Or it's a waste to use it at all, even during PCT?

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## DevilsDeity

i think hes saying its a waist to use 10mg ed while on cycle ...Weeks 5-8: 40 mg ED of Nolvadex for the first two weeks, Then down to 20 mg ED of Nolvadex PCT

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## RockyX

good, thought I bought nolva for nothing.

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## Z2001

> Use the transdermal on a spot that has little to no fat and nor hair.
> 
> It takes a few days for m1t to kick in. The dose depends on your weigth. What are your stats?


6'1
198lb
yr 30
10 mg ED of M1T. I use the 4ad on forearms,rists,and behind the knees.

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## nsa

You might want to bump up the m1t to 15 mg ED. And use the transdermal on your pecs and the spot between your bi's and tri's.

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## Beat

what age is recommend for using M1T?

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## PrairieDawg

does anyone know if m1t is legal in canada?

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## nsa

> what age is recommend for using M1T?


My suggestion is to be at least 20, but all that really matters is that you are done growing or are not interested in getting any taller. Cuz without good pct the estrogen will definately cause your growth plates to close.

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## Z2001

> You might want to bump up the m1t to 15 mg ED. And use the transdermal on your pecs and the spot between your bi's and tri's.


I bumped it up to 15 mg a day, And use the transdermal on pecs and the spot between my bi's and tri's. Let see what happens

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## nsa

bump...

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## Spoon

bump

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## PrairieDawg

someone make this a sticky. there are too many m1t questions on this board

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## PrairieDawg

someone make this a sticky. there are too many m1t questions on this board

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## iNvid

agreed, bump.

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## birsling

Definitely sticky! I have referred too many people to this thread, and I am new here.

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## 8f7dn48dn3v5dn4d8f6kg

what time of the day would be best to take m1t......before workout??

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## nsa

12 hours apart. So morning and 12 hours later.

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## 8f7dn48dn3v5dn4d8f6kg

hey j/w how long it should be (in days) till m1t kicks in, and will i know it, or just see steady gains throughout?

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## bad_man

> 12 hours apart. So morning and 12 hours later.


If I miss my morning dose, can I double up in the evening, or just forget about it?

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## nsa

Yeah you can double up at night. The blood levels won't be even but its not gonna hurt your gains having more blood saturation than most of the time.

It takes me around 3-5 days for it to kick in.

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## nsa

You will know when it kicks in, you will get amazing pumps almost painful.

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## 8f7dn48dn3v5dn4d8f6kg

hehe right on, thats what i wanted to hear. i love it when you start your cycle of something then a few days down the line it hits you and you feel like a madman  :Devil Grin:

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## 8f7dn48dn3v5dn4d8f6kg

another quick ?.....ive been hittin cardio real hard lately and i was wondering if i should continue it while on m1t. thx guys.

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## inspiron8500

You have prevented a novice from making a big mistake. M1T is much too complicated for an inexperienced lifter like me to experiment with. I will stick to protein and creatine. One question though....

If M1T contains no estrogen effects...why is there a need for anti estrogens in the cycle? Isn't that what Nov and Clom are? I am a litte confused...

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## RockyX

I believe clomid is for restoring your natural testosterone , and the nolva is throw in there because the 4-AD does aromatize (sp?).

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## nsa

You can still do cardio.

Those compounds are for pct. You need nolvadex to keep from getting an estrogen rebound after the cycle. You might want to trhow in some clen for your pct to keep the cortisol down.

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## 8f7dn48dn3v5dn4d8f6kg

another question, lol. Would it be safe to take ephedra while on m1t? just ,making sure i cover all the angles here before i get started.

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## nsa

I personally wouldn't take ECA while taking m1t. Taking both might cause an unsafe increase in BP.

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## LM1332

Just get your self a good Vitamin B complex that will get your energy pumpin. Look for the one that has atleast 500mcg of B12 though.




> I personally wouldn't take ECA while taking m1t. Taking both might cause an unsafe increase in BP.

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## sorn

I was wondering... you give a sample of a m1t cycle which is 4
weeks or roughly 30 days.
But you say about clomid in the pct cycle:

"Clomid Therapy, 300 mg of clomid *first day*, 100 mg of clomid *next 10 days*, 50
mg of clomid for *final 10 days* of clomid therapy."

that is *1* + *10* + *10* = *21 days*

So I was wondering; should one take 50mg clomid the remaining 9 or ten days??

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## nsa

No, you run clomid for 3 weeks.

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## sorn

The rest for 4? M1t, 4-ad, hawthorne, nolvadex , milk thistle for 4??

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## nsa

Nolvadex and milk thistle for 4 weeks.

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## sorn

Ok thanks

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## nsa

Bumpity bump...

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## DirtyDog

Can you just clear something up for me.
Why do some people take 6-Oxo for PCT and others take Nolvadex when on PCT?

If im just taking M1T and Milk Thistle do I need to take anything else? Are the other things for if your taking 4-ad as well?

Where does the estrogen rebound you mentioned up the page come into it?

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## DirtyDog

Oh yeah, and whats all this bumping about?

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## Grappler_Mike

Just a way to keep the thread alive ,I personally think it should be a sticky.

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## nsa

The people who use 6-oxo for pct, don't know what they are doing. You need nolvadex and clomid. The estro rebound comes into effect during pct, thats why you need nolvadex for pct. You will also want to add hawthorne berry extract during the cycle.

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## DirtyDog

What is the hawthorne berry for?

Anyone know of a cheap source of nolvadex and clomid?

On my first cycle I only really want to take it for 2 weeks then 2 weeks off at 5mg per day. Am I wasting my time doing it for a short time like this? I weigh a lean 165lb and am presuming 5mg will be enough.

Cheers guys

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## Spoon

> What is the hawthorne berry for?
> 
> Anyone know of a cheap source of nolvadex and clomid?
> 
> On my first cycle I only really want to take it for 2 weeks then 2 weeks off at 5mg per day. Am I wasting my time doing it for a short time like this? I weigh a lean 165lb and am presuming 5mg will be enough.
> 
> Cheers guys


take 10 mgs a day. and two weeks on and 2 weeks off are ok but 4 weeks on then pct after would be better imho.

as for the cheap sources, do your research coz source posting aint allowed. good luck.

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## birtcheh

i was looking for something almost as strong as real steriods but something that is taken orally...would you guys say that m1t is pretty close or would you suggest something else? thanks boys

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## Spoon

> i was looking for something almost as strong as real steriods but something that is taken orally...would you guys say that m1t is pretty close or would you suggest something else? thanks boys



m1t is not as strong as real steroids but its the next best thing. depending on your goals, i would say m1t is pretty good. i just ended my cycle and i was very satisfied with the results.

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## Spoon

how long before lethargy gets out. im on day 5 of pct and still feel a bit lethargic, is it psychological?

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## birtcheh

do u just order it from bulknutrition.com? whats pct? like ive 1ad and animal stak before...i just finished my animal stak...i found its to pricie and its great for getting cut but i want to get bigger...im 155 and pretty strong in most things..i want to get to 180-185...so do u think m1t would atleast help me get close? say like 170ish?

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## Spoon

> do u just order it from bulknutrition.com? whats pct? like ive 1ad and animal stak before...i just finished my animal stak...i found its to pricie and its great for getting cut but i want to get bigger...im 155 and pretty strong in most things..i want to get to 180-185...so do u think m1t would atleast help me get close? say like 170ish?



you can get to 170ish if you eat properly while on m1t. i got to 182 from 170 on m1t. you will need clomid/nolva for pct.

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## birtcheh

whats clomid and nolva for pct?

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## MikeyZ23

> I'm only 130 lbs. 5'8'' - what kind of dosage do you guys recomend me taking? I'm new to this - just barely hitting the gym. I'd like to gain 20 lbs. Wonder if this is possible.



EAT!

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## birsling

I am going to chime in a little here guys. I have some questions for the following people that I hope can be answered:

Dirtydog: How much reading around did you do before you posted these questions? I am all for everybody helping everybody else, but come on man. The answers to your questions are posted all over this forum, some even further up in the same thread. 

Birtcheh: Are you kidding me? What is Nolva and Clomid for PCT? You say you are looking for something almost as strong as "real steroids ," but don't know anything about PCT. What research did you do to decide you wanted something similar to "real steroids" without running across conversation about PCT.

Everybody posting: Before you ask the customary, "Is this right for me?" or "How much of this should I take?" please take time to tell us a little about yourself. Age, weight, height, experience, diet, routine, goals, etc. There is NO right or wrong answer to any of this, and no question can OR SHOULD be answered without at least some background. 

Sorry to everyone that had to read this, but some of this is getting out of hand. I have not been around that long, but I took the first week I was here to read every educational thread, hang around and research, and soak up a little info. I think that everybody should start taking that time, and the forum will really flourish with educated and meaningful members.

Just my 2 cents (maybe even 3 cents)

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## nsa

I agree with birsling, Most of the last few questions can be answered simply by reading the original post.

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## nsa

Bump for newbies.

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## birsling

Can we get a supplement forum sticky on this thread?

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## iNvid

> Can we get a supplement forum sticky on this thread?


Yeah that would be lovely

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## birtcheh

where can u order clomid and nolva from? i know u get m1t from bulknutrition but i couldnt find the other two
i have done my research on m1t and i thank u for the advice but u dont gotta be so harsh 
just simple questions

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## birsling

> where can u order clomid and nolva from? i know u get m1t from bulknutrition but i couldnt find the other two
> i have done my research on m1t and i thank u for the advice but u dont gotta be so harsh 
> just simple questions


Birtch, not trying to be harsh, just trying to prove a point. As you said, just simple questions. That is fine, and I (and a lot of the great people here) will be more than happy to help you (or anyone else). The issue is simple though, the answers are already here. Why should somebody receive help, if they won't help themselves? BTW, know that my post was an overview also, an attempt to thwart any further issues with posting and re-posting the same information. Good luck in whatever you do, but I will not ever change my opinion on this. Sorry if you think it is harsh, but I think that researching your answers is showing respect to the people that researched and posted them in the 1st place.

STICKY!!!!

Oh, 1 more thing. Clomid and Nolva are prescription or research chemicals only. Search around on the forum or the internet, sources for those are fairly easy to come by.

----------


## DirtyDog

> Thats alot for PCT for methyl 1-test. Here's what I did...
> 
> 10mg nolva everyday just in case (M1-T doesnt aromatize anyway, but its good to be safe right? )
> 
> clomid PCT...300/100/50
> 
> and milk thistle...but a gram of milk thistle a day, thats alot to be taking...Liver damage IMO is over-rated. It's one of the toughest organs. I had blood tests done before and after my M1-T cycle and I was perfectly fine...But everyone reacts different. This isnt meant as a flame bro, just to get your side of why so much is used for PCT as well.


How did you do your blood tests?

Doctor or another way?

----------


## nsa

They have ads at www.anabolicminds.com for research sites.

----------


## birtcheh

thanks birsling

ok this could be a stupid question or might not be...like all u gotta do is go to your doctor, tell him u want clomid and nolva n he will just perscribed two weeks or however long for u? like what are u suppose to say when he asks why u want it?

----------


## nsa

No, that is not what you are supposed to do. He will most likely say no and look down on you from then on. Find a research chem site and get it there. Go to www.anabolicminds.com and check out there ads they have up. Some of the ads are for research chem sites.

----------


## birtcheh

hahah ok that sounds easier..thanks
is there anything else i could pct with?
has anyone drank while on it? or if u do drink did u just quit during your cycle with it?

----------


## sorn

> where can u order clomid and nolva from? i know u get m1t from bulknutrition but i couldnt find the other two
> i have done my research on m1t and i thank u for the advice but u dont gotta be so harsh 
> just simple questions


Some links:
M1t http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ap/m1.html
4-ad http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/gn/deca.html
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/sf/4diol.html
Nolva and clomid http://www.ibelabs.net/aqs.htm
Milk thistle http://www.puritan.com/pages/file.as...C&PID=800&np=1
Hawthorne berry extract http://www.puritan.com/pages/file.as...4&PID=817&np=1

ehh... there's nothing wrong with linking to nolva and clomid seller, right??

----------


## birtcheh

i was thinking of just doing m1t by its self during the cycle...maybe throwing in milk thistle during the cycle the pct with nolva and clomid or clomid and creatine
is that bad or good or what? haha..i just dont wanna **** my liver up

----------


## nsa

Do as the sample cycle says in the original post and you will be fine.

----------


## worldknown

Im wandering if this will **** with my hormonal system as bad as say like test enath, also if it does will it be permanent (if you do the right pcts that is) thanks nsa

----------


## nsa

It could potentially mess up your endocrine system if you are somewhat young. Thats why most people suggest being 21 or older to use AAS or PH/PS.

----------


## worldknown

potentially, but will it at just 10mgs a day, if i do the correct pcts is what im asking, thanks again bro

----------


## Spoon

> potentially, but will it at just 10mgs a day, if i do the correct pcts is what im asking, thanks again bro


provided your diet is in check 10 mgs a day is fine if you are below 200lbs.

----------


## birtcheh

does anyone know a site u can get clomid or novaldex in pills? the site i was given before is liquid n ****
thanks for all the help boys! im sending away for everything once i find clomid and novaldex...do u think i could cut out novaldex and use creatine instead?
thanks again..i will get some before pics n after on here before i start it all!

----------


## RockyX

What's wrong with the liquid? You know you drink it and not shoot it right?

----------


## nsa

Liquid is alot better value IMO. Its the same effectiveness and alot cheaper.

----------


## birtcheh

oh really? i thought i had to shoot it for some reason...it says not for human intake...haha sounds safe

----------


## DevilsDeity

very scary how many ppl are willing to take a product without reading up first. Even more scary that people will question proven methods.

----------


## birtcheh

asking questions is a way of looking up a product and seeing if its worth taking...with all the facts in the world, u still want to talk to others to see how their gains were and what they tried using with it..i never heard of any of these products until two nights ago when ifound this site and now i know so much on it..ive tried 1ad and animal stak...and of course i looked it up before using it and since this stuff is stronger im really looking into it now...thats why i have asked so many question b/c i dont want to just start taking something then have a problem or waste of money

----------


## DevilsDeity

my post was no dig to you bro it was just a generalization.
but 9 out of 10 questions ask'd have already been answered 
its just people dont take the time to research and read.

----------


## birtcheh

alright thats cool..i just saw it on here n then i asked about it n then i researched..i may of asked some stupid question i know but i didnt know at the time n now i do..theres lots to read about **** n i can see why people dont want to take the time n read it
its all good tho

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

Right on dude, I looked at this site for a long time before signing up and talked to my lifting partner whos been on here for a year or so. Hes just gettin ready for his first AAS cycle and Im now assembling the masses (drugs) and cutting for my m1t cycle in october.

----------


## birtcheh

ya im tryin to get everything first then decide when iwanna do it bc i like to drink...but i only drink once a week so i didnt think that affect my liver to much but im going away to college soon and frosh week there will be alot of drinking going on there so im trying to get it so its either before frosh week or after..i will probably end up doing it last week of this month or so

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

Ok before you F yourself up, no drinking on cycle!!!! Yall got that liver? I remember my frosh week, well I remember it happend, not too much of what happend. If you wait till the last week of this month then frosh week will be right in the middle of the cycle, NOT GOOD. I wouldnt drink at all when youre on cycle, its putting all kinds of extra strain on your liver. If you dont have the all the elements dont start it. Wait till a month or so into the semester to start your cycle. Make sure you can get enough food. Im going to have to steal grilled chicken breasts from the chow hall everyday to fuel my engines. And another thing, dont go blabbin around that you have research chems in your room. Hide them and hide them good and use them w/ the door closed. Youd be surprised at how much dorm ppl go psycho when theres lil vials, pills, and syringes all over place. Ill say again, dont drink on cycle, it wont be so bad not drinkin for 8 weeks. Be the DD, then youre everyones friend and there will be all kinds of chicks that wont know whats goin on and you can help them get home...

----------


## DirtyDog

> oh really? i thought i had to shoot it for some reason...it says not for human intake...haha sounds safe


Yeah, can someone who knows what they are talking about give some input on this please?

Does the stuff people buy actually say on the bottle or vile 'Not for human consumption' or is there some that is suitable and some that isn't?

I have found alot of sites that sell Nolvadex but they all advertise it as a womens way of reducing breast cancer but im presuming its the same thing yeah?

Also input on clomid would be useful as ive found the same problem

Just want to know all the facts before spending the dolla in case I get the wrong thing!

Cheers again people

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

Dude, women take it to reduce estrogen and spreading of breast cancer. My meem had it twice. It would also work in male bodybuilders. Its like taking midol, just higher power ibuprophen. Check the active ingredeint in what ever it is you found. If its clomaphine citrate or tamoxafene, then youve got clomid and nolva. I emailed one askin what the package/return addy said. They responded sayin they could put "vitamin world" on the return addy. The ppl at research companies know [email protected] well what we do with these substances. Oh yeah, you can get oral syringes at a walgreens or sumthin so you dont haffta use a sharp injectable kind.

----------


## Cyto78

> Liquid is alot better value IMO. Its the same effectiveness and alot cheaper.


 Alot cheaper?I have not found a single website that has liquid cheaper than pills.You can can get 250 pills each of both nolva and clomid for $85 a piece.Maybe i'm looking in the wrong places.

----------


## eacman65

that is possible

----------


## Cyto78

> that is possible


 I'm assuming yuor response was to my statement?Are there places to get more liquid than that of the 500 pills I was talking about for cheaper?

----------


## nsa

I get liquid nolvadex for 50 mg/1 ml 50 ml for 20$ and clomid 50 mg/1 ml 50 ml for 20$ and clen for 200 mcg/ml 50 ml 35$ of clen. The nolvadex and clomid are better than what i get the pills for and the clen is not even close to the price i would pay for that much clen in pills.

----------


## nsa

What are the doses of the pills?

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

How many pills for $85? The place I got mine from is liquid nolva for $30 and clomid for $25 or the other way around. Lim'bitum cheap-um?

----------


## Cyto78

Clomid 250 pills @ 50 mg each for $85.......my bad on the nolva 100 pills instead of 250.Nolva 100 pills @ 30 mg each for $85......I guess your Nolva would be a much better deal.....****....you oughta hook me up.  :Smilie:

----------


## nsa

i get mine a little cheaper than what they show on their site, only 5 bucks less though.

----------


## birtcheh

hey nsa where do uget ur clomad an nolva?

----------


## nsa

Check your pm's...

----------


## RockyX

You guys weren't kidding when you say insane pumps. Did you guys also experience alot of soreness after your workouts? I upped my weights a little, but other than that, it was the same old routine. I find myself quincing with soreness the day after every workout.......it kicks ass lol.

----------


## birsling

> You guys weren't kidding when you say insane pumps. Did you guys also experience alot of soreness after your workouts? I upped my weights a little, but other than that, it was the same old routine. I find myself quincing with soreness the day after every workout.......it kicks ass lol.


Definitely sore. I just posted that in my pseudo M1T diary. I have to have a couple of IB's to go to bed. It is great!  :Strong Smiley:

----------


## nsa

soreness is likely from the increased demands on your muscles by upping the weight, nothing bad. I get pissed if i ever walk out of the gym and im not sore or sore the next day.(which rarely ever happens)

----------


## worldknown

/bump for everyone here, should be made a sticky like everyone says ( i guess time will tell) but will this stuff make you horny as hell like test enath? Thanks guys and thread is becoming more and more informative each day

----------


## birsling

> /bump for everyone here, should be made a sticky like everyone says ( i guess time will tell) but will this stuff make you horny as hell like test enath? Thanks guys and thread is becoming more and more informative each day


I have read people that say it killed their libido, but it definitely isn't doing that for me. I have been like a dog in heat, and like I said in my M1T diary, my performance is better than ever. Don't know if it is like that for everybody, but definitely for me!

----------


## worldknown

where is the link to your diary?

----------


## birsling

> where is the link to your diary?


Here it is World http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=107657

Has a link to my pics to

----------


## worldknown

dude your looking big, can you tell me what you were benching with reps for before m1t? Like say 205 x 12, and now your at what? Thanks

----------


## Proz

OK - just a few questions folks..... I`m 21 been seriously training for 4 months but i`ve played sports constantly for 12 years so i`m pretty fit. I am 185 lb with 15% body fat. I`m actually fit yet i have higher body fat than i would like i really actully strugle to loose it. I mean its not mad high yet for the amount i train its higher than i`d like. .......OK so.....

I have read the forums now for the last 3 weeks posted a couple of questions but this is the daddy..basically i want your opinion of the path i should take. I`m a stickler for the law and wanted to stay legal so i baught M1T about 2 months ago..(i heard about a band so got it stocked in!!) then was gutted by you guys to see i have to use ~~ illegal~~ PCT clomid and nolv !!! I can now get these products so i am actually all set for the cycle..if i wanted to....however should i cut first...although i`m trying to bulk cuz my arms are skinny as hell...so i`m kinda confused... Need to cut my stomach yet need to bulk my arms lol. I have had some great gains for the first 2 months on a """decent"" (Not amazing but pretty good!!!) diet. I mean i don`t know how often you guys cheat but havin a girlfriend doesnt help..i might have a cheat 2-3 times a week...not a pig out..just maybe a little ice cream or sommet!

Now heres my options...whjat do you suggest...

> 1) Go on the NSA designed M1T 4ad cycle staright away.
2) """"" same as above""" but use something like Clen to cut in PCT
3) Forget the M1T cycle for a bit and do a cuttin Ephedre (sp?) cycle now
4) M1T cycle to strong for first cycle..use a 4-ad or S1+ cycle first ?

Any advice or suggestions welcome.....i thought i`d post here as it does mostly revolve around m1t and i`m sure many noobs like me have the same questions and are in a similar situation.

----------


## Whitey

I think it's possible to lose fat while increasing lbm on an M1T cycle. My experience was gaining 8 lbs. lbm w/ slight decrease in bf%. Would be interested in what everyone else has to say.

----------


## worldknown

what were your strength gains lke whitey?

----------


## birsling

Alright, I am in week 3 of my cycle, and here is what I see. This will be an all-inclusive answer for Worldknown and Proz. If you use NSA's M1T cycle and have a good diet, you will achieve very nice results. My diet is pretty clean (not perfect), I probably cheat 2 meals a week (usually on Sunday when I take my wife/son out to dinner and ice cream). I will say that I would probably be ripped if not for Sundays. Proz, you need to examine your goals and weigh what your results can be with a cycle, compared to what can be done without (only using diet and exercise). What is your cardio routine? You sound to me like a guy that could clean up his diet some, do more cardio, and lift naturally for 6-12 months before the M1T. I don't know, but that is my opinion. 

World, losing all the weight that I lost, I lost a lot of muscle to. The week before I started M1T, I struggled for 2 reps @ 205. Right now, I have chest to do today, but last week was at 8 reps @235lbs. I would say the strength gains are awesome! I have seen more strength than size. 

NSA, you have been good to me with your info, but I have to pick your brain one more time. I know you have talked about test prop instead of 4-AD. I am considering this, and going to start researching this in the steroid forum. What do you see as the pros vs. cons? I only ask because I respect your opinion. Thanks bro.

----------


## nsa

Pro's of test prop are:
No need for transdermal
Alot more test being in your system
test prop is many times better for lean gains
Cons:
You need to run nolvadex during the cycle
Each day injections

Bottom line is you will gain alot more strength and mass from test prop/m1t than m1t/4-ad. And if you have a problem with the lethargy even using 4-ad, you wil have virtually no lethargy with prop.

----------


## Proz

Bumpety Bump...for my question... thanks to those who already have..more response wanted

----------


## birsling

NSA, thanks bro. I don't know if I am up to the ED injection. I will research and think about it.

----------


## nsa

Good luck with whatever you decide on.

----------


## LM1332

bump

----------


## Darkness

> I think it's possible to lose fat while increasing lbm on an M1T cycle. My experience was gaining 8 lbs. lbm w/ slight decrease in bf%. Would be interested in what everyone else has to say.


Yes, I gained 14lbs and fat went from 12.5% to 11.5% bf. Lost most of the gains in PCT though and did it strictly.

----------


## DevilsDeity

bump

----------


## birsling

Sticky bump!

----------


## DevilsDeity

bump

----------


## DirtyDog

> The people who use 6-oxo for pct, don't know what they are doing. You need nolvadex and clomid. The estro rebound comes into effect during pct, thats why you need nolvadex for pct. You will also want to add hawthorne berry extract during the cycle.


Ok, can anyone tell me why 6-oxo is not good for PCT?

Im in the UK and havn't found anywhere that I can get Clomid and Nolvadex . Places in the states ive been in contact with are reluctant to send to the UK and if they will and customs find it ive paid money for nothing!

Is something like Dermabolics Metacort a good enough substitute?  :Don't know:  

Im only running the M1T for two weeks for my first cycle and not the 4-ad as well.

Any advice would be much appreciated thanks!

----------


## birsling

Why are you only going to run M1T for 2 weeks? What are your goals? It took me 5-7 days to get the M1T to kick, and I was stacking the 4-AD. I don't know anything about Metacort, though I do like Dermabolics products.

----------


## DirtyDog

> Why are you only going to run M1T for 2 weeks? What are your goals? It took me 5-7 days to get the M1T to kick, and I was stacking the 4-AD. I don't know anything about Metacort, though I do like Dermabolics products.


Im only running for 2 weeks as this is my first cycle and dont want do it for 4 weeks.

Also ive got several social events lined up in just over a month so I want be able to have a beer or two without worrying that my liver is under huge strain.

My goals are to put on around another stone in lbm. Im currently 11st 11lb of lean muscle (7% body fat). Have been training for 3 yrs with the last year being the most consistent. I only want another stone as I train in Martial arts and a huge physic is not good for what I do, I just want a bit more weight and power behind my strikes. (And a buffer body!)

Cheers

----------


## birsling

Well, I will honestly say I am not sure how much size you will see in 2 weeks. Strength yes, size, I don't think so. I would still go through with normal PCT, trying to find your clomid and nolva. You will have to hit up NSA with this one. Good luck

----------


## userabuser

> Some links:
> Link removed (Sorry folks)
> 
> ehh... there's nothing wrong with linking to nolva and clomid seller, right??


Am attempting to order the products needed for this cycle. I'm having a hard time getting my head wrapped around the 4-ad. The first link for it listed here says it's no longer available. The second one does not say transdermal. Would you guys mind being really simple in telling me what "exactly" to get?

After 1 1/2 years of working out, this is my first attempt to cycle.

----------


## DevilsDeity

userabuser
edit your post and take out the link for the clomid and nol
please

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

4Derm (4AD) is on a certain supplement website, as is M1T for $10/bottle, matter of fact, the hawthorne and milk thistle is too. I didnt get the hawthorn and thistle from there becuase they didnt have the size I need and I found it cheaper at a store in town.

----------


## birsling

******SIDEBAR******

Guys, I am sorry that I have to do this again, but it has to be done. Please, PLEASE, read before you post. NO LINKS in the open forum! I have not been here that long, but I took the time to read and learn. Please have respect for the forum and read the rules, educational threads, and other info. Again, sorry to all that have to read this, but it is the only way. If you have a link you would like to give, PM!

----------


## userabuser

The goal here is to make it a bit easier on the newbie that needs to order the items mentioned in the faq.


M1t Easy to find.

transdermal 4-ad Hard to determine for a newbie. I found two differant ones. 
Either should work.
s1+
4Derm

hawthorne berry ext Easy to find

Nolvadex What I found was called:
Tamoxifen Citrate

Clomid Therapy What I found was called:
Clomiphene Citrate

Milk Thistle Easy to find

If I've got any of this wrong, hopefully the more "informed" folks around here will straighten me out.

----------


## userabuser

> ******SIDEBAR******
> 
> Guys, I am sorry that I have to do this again, but it has to be done. Please, PLEASE, read before you post. NO LINKS in the open forum! I have not been here that long, but I took the time to read and learn. Please have respect for the forum and read the rules, educational threads, and other info. Again, sorry to all that have to read this, but it is the only way. If you have a link you would like to give, PM!



I appologize. I saw the post from the other gentlemen, and saw where it asked if these links were ok to post. I saw no response otherwize, so assumed.. It won't happen again.

----------


## birsling

That wasn't just for you bro. I know you were quoting a previous post. It is a general statement. It is happening more and more, and I have only been here 2 months. I could only imagine what the people that have been here a long time think. As far as the products you are looking for, you have it right. Go with the 4-derm it works great. I am on my last few days of the cycle, and love it

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

> The goal here is to make it a bit easier on the newbie that needs to order the items mentioned in the faq.
> 
> transdermal 4-ad Hard to determine for a newbie. I found two differant ones. 
> Either should work.
> s1+
> 4Derm
> 
> Nolvadex What I found was called:
> Tamoxifen Citrate
> ...


The 4Derm is the stuff you want, birsling has it and it works for him, I have it and havent started yet. Its also cheaper than S1+ and they have the same results according to the site I saw them on. As is Tamoxifene citrate and Clomiphene Citrate. Theyre just the lab terms for the chems, same as methelenedeoxymethamphetamine is the lab name for ecstacy.

----------


## birsling

> methelenedeoxymethamphetamine


Imagine throwing that around on the street. Takes 5 minutes to say  :LOL:

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

Same with Cannabis sativa, Lysergic acid diethylamide, psilocybe, Phencyclidine, etc

----------


## LeanMeOut

**** I can't believe this thread is 5 pages long lol...... 



<<LMO>>

----------


## Spoon

> **** I can't believe this thread is 5 pages long lol...... 
> 
> 
> 
> <<LMO>>



its going to be 6 soon. this should just be a sticky!

----------


## iNvid

> its going to be 6 soon. this should just be a sticky!


Agreed. Along with the thread about all the info you need on ph.

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

The all you needa know about PH is a sticky-icky, this one deff needs to be.

----------


## birsling

> Same with Cannabis sativa, Lysergic acid diethylamide, psilocybe, Phencyclidine, etc


You're making me drool S.O.M. LOL. Yeah, can somebody get me a sticky on this? This is a supplement forum "MUST READ"

----------


## RockyX

The thread needs to get the attention of a mod first. I don't believe many of the mods are reading about prohormones, as most have already moved on to AAS. Some one should drop a PM to a mod or two requesting it to become a sticky, better yet, we all should.

----------


## Daven

Have a question for you guys... I've run two m1t cycles in the past, one at 5, 10 then 15mg, did nothing, then another going up to 20mg, a little bit of water retention but that was it. There was absolutly *no* change in weights on my lifts, not even another rep... Would you sudjest I go to 25-30mg? Im trying to give this one more chance, taking 20mg right now, im also taking insulin at the same time so I was thinking that this should help get the m1t absorbed quite a bit better, but too early to tell...

As for my stats,
24, 5'11" 210 @ 10%bf, 3 AAS cycles over the past 3 years.

----------


## nsa

If your not responding to 20 mg's of m1t your doing something wrong or are a non-responder(rare with m1t). Im assuming your diet and training regimen are good, if they are not, then that is your problem.

----------


## Daven

4000cals a day, 300g of protein, my training was a 5x5 routine, how I got to be 210 lbs in the first place, so i say it does a good job. And if you look, i was indeed responding to it, just putting on water, but that still would show that the hormone is working in some degree.

----------


## nsa

Switch up your routine every month or two, other than that you could go with 30 mg's if you want, but your gonna need milk thistle at that dose.

----------


## Daven

I do, 5x5 can be used with many diffrent exersizes, but yes I do switch it up, that still woudnt explain no gain... I think im going to keep going at 20mg to see how it reacts with the slin, im running milk thistle right now, how much should I run though, i usualy run 1g with an oral, think that should cover it?

----------


## nsa

Yes.

----------


## birsling

Daven,
What were the previous AAS cycles. When did you start each, and what was your original starting point. 5'11", 210lbs isn't small, but it definitely isn't big for 3 cycles AAS, and 2 or 3 M1T. What is the quality/layout of your diet?

----------


## Daven

At my biggest, i was 240 @ 13%, I had to have back surgery that left me in a bed for 2 months, got down to about 180 ish, my last cycle was test/d-bol that got me up to 210... and as ive said, the m1t really didnt do anything.

Diet right now, is slightly cutting, im on a 4 hour acting insulin right now, so there isnt really a way to get alot of cals in, and im trying to get down to 8% also.

----------


## nsa

Just up your calories...

----------


## birsling

> At my biggest, i was 240 @ 13%, I had to have back surgery that left me in a bed for 2 months, got down to about 180 ish, my last cycle was test/d-bol that got me up to 210... and as ive said, the m1t really didnt do anything.
> 
> Diet right now, is slightly cutting, im on a 4 hour acting insulin right now, so there isnt really a way to get alot of cals in, and im trying to get down to 8% also.


Sorry to hear about the back bro. Back injuries, especially surgery, are tough to come back from. Good job getting the weight back up. I am curious about your intensity during your workout, is your strength up? You keep saying the M1T isn't doing anything but making you retain water, is it doing anything for your strength levels? Everybody is different, but 20mg is pretty high to not see anything but H20 retention.

----------


## Daven

no, no diffrance in my strength when i was on it, when I ran 20mg it was even a 3 week cycle, I went from about 204 dry weight to 210, then went right back down in pct, didnt even gain a rep that was out of place really.

Yea, it was pretty bad, the worst part was the bordom, all I had for about 2 months, was a tv and a labtop, you get sick of that real quick :/

----------


## scriptfactory

My strength went up dramatically on M1T.

Before:
Height: 6'1"
BF%: circa 20%
Weight: 255lbs
Bench: 1x2 @ 305lbs

After:
Height: 6'1"
Weight: 264lbs
BF%: circa 17%
Bench: 2x8 305lbs, 1x6 315lbs

The strange thing about this is I was actually trying to lose weight because I heard M1t was good for cutting. I started out with 400mg 4-AD but it caused me to retain too much water. After 1 week on M1T I started my T3/Clen cycle (I know... stupid... I don't need comments) but I still gained weight!!! I was eating around 1600 calories a day. I really can't explain what is going on with my body but I have never had results like this from any supplement. I am actually gaining muscle while on a very low cal diet. It's crazy.  :Smilie:  Most of my calories were from protein and the rest from carbs.

----------


## RockyX

1600 calories for someone 260lbs??? Imagine the strides you could make if you were to eat correctly! Follow me to the diet forum young grasshopper.

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

> The strange thing about this is I was actually trying to lose weight because I heard M1t was good for cutting. I started out with 400mg 4-AD but it caused me to retain too much water. After 1 week on M1T I started my T3/Clen cycle (I know... stupid... I don't need comments) but I still gained weight!!! *I was eating around 1600 calories a day*.


PAINS, IN CHEST!!! LEFT SIDE, NUMB!! BLURRED, VISON!! Dude, M1T is deff not a cutting supp. It is a bulking steroid . You should have been eating at least 4G's a day. That would prolly have given you another 5lbs at least.

----------


## scriptfactory

Yes, I know my diet sucks. It's too hard for me to eat with my job and everything. Maybe I'll head to the diet forum for some tips.  :Smilie:

----------


## nsa

There are many meals you can prepare and bring to work that are healthy. RTD meal replacements, chicken and brown rice, etc...

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

Smokers getta have smoke breaks, why cant body builders have "stuff your face breaks?" Or better yet, work out breaks.

----------


## nsa

If you have an office job, im sure you could drink a shake or eat some brown rice and chicken without even taking a break.

----------


## nsa

If you boss has a problem with you eating or drinking a protein shake on the job just tell them that you are glycemic or diabetic and you have to get some source of carbs, they don't know the difference between a carb shake and protein shake.

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

But then when you put on 20 extra pounds in a month, theyll be like, uuuh huh huh huh.

----------


## nsa

Most people don't notice considering your at work, and should be wearing a shirt, mostly long sleeve button downs. You won't be noticed much, unless your wearing a wifebeater or a sleeveless shirt to work.

----------


## alert

i was wondering what taking the 4-ad out of this cycle would do .. as its quite expensive ... wonder if i'd get decent results just from the m1t and clomid etc .. ?

----------


## nsa

If you don't have the 4-ad in the cycle you run the risk of becoming really lethargic, not being able to get your penis erect(similar to deca dick).

----------


## Proz

Are there any mods out there........ Can we not have an M1T or even a PS forum!!! Cummon..what ya`ll recon?

----------


## D00fy

nsa - how many m1t cycles have u done so far?

----------


## dogsofwar

As nsa indicates, the 4derm works. It'll get the crank crankin. Just a day or so after the first use, you'll be humpin your neighbors leg. Just funnin ya...But it did help immensley. I will never advocate something that does not provide results so take the 4derm into consideration. Let us know your results ~dow

----------


## DirtyDog

Word,

My friend and I are running this cycle for 2 weeks but without the 4-ad for our first time.

How would you recommend running the PCT? We will be using Milk Thistle, Liquid Nolvadex and Liquid Clomid as recommended.

I was thinking we should use:
40mg ED Nolvadex for first week then 20mg ED for the second week.
300mg Clomid for the first day, then 100mg ED for next 5 days, 50mg ED for final 5 days.

Might be obvious but I just wanted to check before we start in case its not right.

Another quicky, our Nolva and Clomid are coming in rubber top sealed viles. Is it possible to get the liquid out without a needle on the syringe? I dont really want hypodermics in the house if i can help it.

Thanks dude

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

If the tops dont come off easily then youre gonna haffta use a syringe. Thats how I am dosing mine, plus it will be much more accurate than with any other type of, thing. Wait for nsa on the other stuff tho. Sumthin tells me he'll say the up the clomid to 10 days each for the 100 and 50mg's and run nolva for 4 weeks instead of 2. JMO tho.

----------


## birsling

DirtyDog, y are you not using the 4 derm? Are you on the cycle right now? I would seriously look into running the 4derm. You WILL be lethargic without it, and it will help you through the end of your workouts. Also, why only a 2 week cycle? Are you trying to start small. Outline your cycle (and include the mg amounts of each item) for us, just to check it out. Good luck bro.

----------


## nsa

I have run 2 m1t cycles so far and im going to start another cycle in september with some other helpful things.  :Dancing Banana: 

For the advice question, just follow the sample cycle in the original post. Some places sell sealed vial, others sell bottles that have a screw off top, some come with syringes without needles.

----------


## userabuser

I overheard today, at a from a massive dude at the counter of the supplement store that m1t and others will be illegal in about 3 weeks. Any truth??

So what's the shelf life of this stuff?

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

Andro products are being banned and will be illegal. M1T is not andro at all, its methel-1-testosterone . Its way more potent than andro will ever be. So M1T will not be scheduled a class III drug just yet, our gay govt will probably find out about M1T and make it illegal within a year or two so you might could buy it and save it. The exp date on mine says like 2007 or 2008 I think. Was the supp store you speak of GNC perhaps? If so, that place sucks ass anyway.

----------


## lt1tech

I tried to do another cycle of M1t again but it makes my lower right side of my stomach hurt too much and makes me WAY too tired! I get awesome results in the first seven days but I never dare finish the cycle. I got the same side pump pains with fina too... WTF? anyone???

----------


## dogsofwar

I have heard about pains in that region. I wonder if its gastrointestinal or liver (possibly placebo?). Gear can have that effect. Any opinions out there? ~dow

----------


## birsling

NSA, hope you don't mind but I posted this over at Anabolic Impact. I included it as a direct quote from you, and also posted the original link to this thread. If you mind, I will erase it, but thought you wouldn't mind sharing the knowledge.

----------


## nsa

I don't mind at all. Im fine with people sharing this info everywhere even without referring back to me. I don't care about internet recognition for some name i made up by pushing down buttons with my eyes closed. LOL

----------


## lt1tech

Anyone have any more knowledge about the lower abdominal pains associated with M1T and other anabolics? Especially Finaplix and 17aa's

----------


## SpecialCombat

You all can see the originating article here:
http://www.ironmagazine.com/review25.html

----------


## nsa

Actually that is copied as well, from bulknutrition's website. That part that is the same as the top of my FAQ which is from bulknutrition. But the important part is the bottom of my FAQ, which i came up with through trial and error on myself...

----------


## SpecialCombat

Oh, no bones here bro.....just making sure that if it were copyrighted that no one gets in trouble. Good post though.

----------


## nsa

I know where your coming from, i wasn't trying to be a d!ck about it. But that first part is from bulknutrition's synopsis of m1t in the UL m1t product part.

----------


## birsling

N, I linked it back to you because I believe that is the right way. Always give props. This is a great post, hopefully soon to be a sticky!

----------


## nsa

Thanks bro, i just want to get the knowledge out so that people don't screw themselves up using this stuff, because if you don't know what your doing you could easily mess yourself up, especially if your young.

----------


## birsling

Right on bro. Look at all the posts that have popped up in the last week. All sorts of sides, abdominal problems, etc. All of them seem to be at higher dosages, and possibly some of the people didn't know what they were getting into.

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

Ive noticed alot of people leaving out the 4ad or hawthorne in thier M1T cycle and one dude wanted to do 2weeks on, 2weeks pct and repeat. Where do they come up with these ideas to alter a cycle plan that has been researched heavily? Do they just not wanna pay for sumthing? If you were building a hot rod, would you leave out the transmission cuz it was too expensive?

----------


## birsling

> Ive noticed alot of people leaving out the 4ad or hawthorne in thier M1T cycle and one dude wanted to do 2weeks on, 2weeks pct and repeat. Where do they come up with these ideas to alter a cycle plan that has been researched heavily? Do they just not wanna pay for sumthing? If you were building a hot rod, would you leave out the transmission cuz it was too expensive?



You couldn't have brought up a better point. I posted that exact question in another guy's post. Why try and change something that has been heavily researched? I understand people changing it to fit their individual goals, after they see how their body reacts, but I live by the motto don't fix what ain't broken!

----------


## DirtyDog

> Ive noticed alot of people leaving out the 4ad or hawthorne in thier M1T cycle and one dude wanted to do 2weeks on, 2weeks pct and repeat. Where do they come up with these ideas to alter a cycle plan that has been researched heavily? Do they just not wanna pay for sumthing? If you were building a hot rod, would you leave out the transmission cuz it was too expensive?


If you were refering to me with this post the reason I am only doing 2 weeks on 2 weeks off is due to a holiday coming up that will stop me training and I want to be able to drink again. Also, I would like to see how my body reacts to it first before commiting to a 4 week cycle.

I do not want to run 4-ad as i would like to see the effects of M1T alone on my first cycle. Its not like I can never do a cycle again and this is my only chance to try 4-ad is it. I have 4-ad already but am going to use it when I do my second M1T cycle.

I am not in any way saying that NSA's cycle is wrong or could be improved, otherwise I would have started my own thread. This is just how I wish to proceed with things. 

As for the hawthorne berry, I agree totally. Anyone that cant fork out a few quid for a basic supplement like that must need their head testing! Its not expensive at all and its going to help your body deal with the strain M1T puts on it.

In fact, for me personally the most expensive part of this cycle has been the Nolva and Clomid as I had to have it shipped to the UK.

Peace

Beefcake.........BEEFCAKE!

----------


## birsling

Relax there DD. SOM was not referring to just you, he and I were referring to the gobs of posts in the last week that seem very uneducated. It is frustrating to me, individually, to see so many uneducated posts when the information is right at your fingertips. This thread is available to everyone without even using the search button. It is at the top of the forum almost everyday. Hopefully soon to be STUCK there.

With that being said, please encourage people to read this thread, make educated decisions, and know what they are getting into. Never forget that a lot of people will jump in head first, without asking what is in the pool!

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

> Never forget that a lot of people will jump in head first, without asking what is in the pool!


Very nice analogy birsling. And another thing, this thread deff needs to be a sticky. What other thread has 6 pages that isnt one?

----------


## birtcheh

boys id like to thank everyone who has helped me with my m1t cycle...i got one more week left and its going great! i ha vent gained much weight..around10lbs but working everyday and not being able to eat when i want n **** has taken its toll but my strengths have went up so much in everything!last week i benched 205 on incline 4 times n struggled for 1...this week i did 225 4 times by myself and 1 more with a push..i love this!!! im planning on my next cycle already! thanks again to everyone who helped me!

----------


## nsa

Great to hear when people have results like this...

----------


## nsa

Bump. I edited the first post to include the common sides and how to counteract them. So you who don't know why i have hawthorne berry, milk thistle, etc. in the sample cycle read it...

----------


## MikeyZ23

> I'm only 130 lbs. 5'8'' - what kind of dosage do you guys recomend me taking? I'm new to this - just barely hitting the gym. I'd like to gain 20 lbs. Wonder if this is possible.


Try to get as big as you can naturally bro. Eat eat eat before you think about touching this stuff. Your stats indicate that you still have some growing to do so be patient! Keep up the hard training!

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

That dude should deff not do M1T at 130lbs. Get to at least 170-175 for your hieght at 5'8".

----------


## nsa

Bump for newbs...

----------


## userabuser

Can/Should I consider Clen and/or T3 during my PCT of m1t?

----------


## MASTER

Clen is always gd after a cycle, it is anti-catabolic, so will help u keep ur gains and will strip fat off ya 2.

----------


## nsa

I like clen , but im not a big fan of T3. Maybe try clen and ECA instead.

----------


## D00fy

this is my 2nd m1t cycle, first 2weeks i havent seen any progress bumping another 5mg to it like NSA suggested ,making it a total of 15mg ,i am starting to notice weight gain and muscle tightness ,since it took long for me to see anything can i continue with another 2weeks,making it a total of 6weeks?

i have novadex on hand and 6oxo............

----------


## nsa

I wouldn't take it to 6 weeks. Too much HPTA suppresion. not to mention hepatoxicity. Keep it to 4 weeks is my suggestion.

----------


## userabuser

*Ordering information notes on M1T cycle.*  

I put this together from info in this thread and elsewhere on this forum. Hope you find it helpfull. Please let me know if you see any errors.

2 - bottles m1t (60 count  5 ml)
One would do if you stay strictly to the example cycle, but not if you decide to increase dosage a tad.

2 - bottles s1+ or 4derm (4ad TransDermal) 3 sprays morning 5 at night for 30 days

2  bottles Milk Thistle (30 count) Good for all cycles for Blood Pressure

*Clomid*
1 - bottles 60ml 50 mg/ml clomid (Clomiphene Citrate) clomid is for restoring your natural testosterone . 21 day supply.
Faq suggests 300mg first day, 100 for the next 10 days, 50 mg for final 10 days. This translates (when using this bottle) to:
6ml 1st day
2ml next 10 days
1ml for final 10 days
See conversion info below

*Nolva*
1  bottles 60ml 20mg/ml Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) (Reduce Estragen rebound after cycle) 
Faq suggests 40 mg for 1st two weeks, 20 mg second two weeks. This translates (when using this bottle) to:
2ml 1st two weeks
1 ml remaining two weeks

*Conversion notes for Clomid and Nolva:*
If its 20mg/ml bottle 1 dropper = 1ml = 20mg
Using a baby measuring syringe (found at most drug stores), is good way to measure.

Clomid and Nolva are prescription or research chemicals only. Search around on the forum or the internet, sources for those are fairly easy to come by.

----------


## nsa

M1t only needs one bottle.
4-ad should have same number of sprays each time.
Nolvadex and clomid are usually in 50 ml containers, but could vary depending on manufacturer.

----------


## userabuser

Thanks for the feedback.




> M1t only needs one bottle.
> 4-ad should have same number of sprays each time.
> Nolvadex and clomid are usually in 50 ml containers, but could vary depending on manufacturer.


Is my explanation on M1t inadequate? If they decide to go to 15ml ED, they'll run out.

On 4-ad Curious, wonder why? I, personally can't do 5 sprays in the morning. Trashes me out..

On the Nolva and Clomid, I agree, what I'm holding in my hand at the moment is 60ml. 

Again, thanks for looking over it. I will edit as you think best.

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

I understood your M1T question w/ getting two bottles. I did the same thing, in case you want to up the dosage, but more just so I have it for another cycle in case it gets banned soon. It wont hurt to have it ready, plus its cheap. The 4derm thing is probably to keep your body in equilibrium with the level of 4derm. My nolva/clomid is in a 60mL vial as well. Good call on using a baby syringe for measuring, I have an injection one for each. Just draw w/ the needle and take it off to squirt in mouth.

----------


## DirtyDog

I've just finished my M1T cycle and am currently running my PCT. I made good strength and lean muscle mass gains on the cycle and had no sides at all using 10mg per day. Now im just exhausted all the time, I cant lift anything and I've ended up cutting my last 3 workouts short simply because I had no strength or energy to lift any more. 

Is this because of my test levels being lower while the Clomid kicks in or what?

I've been on PCT for 4 days now.

----------


## nsa

That could be a part of it. Your probably also lethargic from the low test levels. This is why you frontload clomid in pct.

----------


## DirtyDog

How long do you reckon it will last? Im taking clomid 100mg ED and Nolva 20mg ED for two weeks as you recommended to me as I only did a 2 week cycle to begin with.

By frontload, do you mean have a large amount to start as in the cycle this thread began on? i.e. 300mg

Cheers

----------


## nsa

It should gradually get better each day now.

I thought you where running 4 weeks. Thats why i was thinking of frontloading.

----------


## birsling

Hey NSA, quick opinion question for you. In reading Pheedno's latest PCT posts, and speaking to Einstein, they are now against front loading clomid. They are talking up a consistent 100mg ED. What do you think, and why? This applies to aas cycles, so I am wondering what, if anything, would make this different for M1T

----------


## DirtyDog

> It should gradually get better each day now.
> 
> I thought you where running 4 weeks. Thats why i was thinking of frontloading.


Yeah, it all get better from when you said and now 7 days into PCT and I feel my workouts are back to 100% of what they were before.

Nice

----------


## nsa

Hey birsling, sorry i didn't know you asked that until this last post bumped up the thread. 

I think that you can succesfully use more clomid during the beginning of PCT because your test levels are so low. So frontloading will cause a steeper increase of test levels, rather than the longer slower Increase brought on by using 100 mg throughout pct. 

Let me know what their reasoning was behind not frontloading, i respect their opinions alot, so i would love to read what they had to say about it.

----------


## birsling

NSA, no prob bro, I probably should have bumped it myself. Reading Pheedno's actual post, and not going by hearsay, he is not against front loading but does say not everyone can tolerate it. Something I have never thought about, and something that gets discussed very little. Occulotoxicity of clomid can greatly effect some people, and he is mainly pointing out that front loading is not NECESSARY (NOT saying that he doesn't recommend it). Though I am sure you have seen it, here is a link to Pheedno's very impressive PCT guideline thread http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...6&page=1&pp=40

----------


## nsa

Yeah, i've read that a few times. I agree that some people can't tolerate it, but most people myself included can tolerate it. Its really only the first day that could be a problem, 300 mg first day. After that its 100 or less.

----------


## gio86

bro nsa how much you think i should tak of this andro poppers. im gonna stack them with m1t. check out the info.

Serving Size: 2 Tabs 
Servings Per Container: 50

Amount Per Serving:

Balanced Andro Complex: 150mg
4-AD 128mg
4-AD-EC 15mg
NOR-4-AD 5mg
A1-E 2mg.

----------


## nsa

Alot, oral 4-ad as with other oral PH's that are not methylated are not very bioavailable. I wouldn't even use an oral 4-ad or andro combo, I would definately look into using a transdermal 4-ad.

----------


## gio86

yea bro thats what i thought...but do you have any suggestions?? i mean i have them just sitting there. how many should i take?

----------


## nsa

I would take about 10 Tabs ED, but i don't know your stats and history and stuff. So judge from what i would take, Im 5'8" 180 @ 7% BF.

----------


## gio86

ok well im 5'8 or 9 i dont even know and im 160-165 and about 7% bf also.

----------


## gio86

if you dont mind me asking were do you get your 4ad from??

----------


## nsa

www.bulknutrition.com Get the 4-derm. Its the best value when considering effectiveness and price.

----------


## gio86

thanx bro

----------


## gio86

what do you think is best as far as taking the m1t tabs.
im gonna go for 20mg a day should i take 10 in the mornign and 10 at night or should i take 4 spread through out the day??

----------


## nsa

Every 6 hours is good. Some can't do that because of sleep, so most just go with 2 every 12 hours for that desired dose.

----------


## nsa

Bump...

I edited the original post to add some sides and how to counter them.

----------


## nsa

Bump

----------


## flexin-rph

I'm finishing week 4 of PCT, can I just start another M1T cycle right away (the previous cycle was 4 weeks at 20mg/day)? Any input appreciated.

----------


## nsa

Yeah, there is no harm in that, as long as your taking milk thistle.

----------


## DirtyDog

Do you mean as long as he is taking Milk Thistle during his current PCT, or as long as hes taking it when he starts the M1T again?

----------


## birsling

I would think he is talking during PCT to assist in getting liver values back to normal. Once your body has fully recovered, usually in that 1 month period, you should be good for another cycle. Right N?

----------


## nsa

> I would think he is talking during PCT to assist in getting liver values back to normal. Once your body has fully recovered, usually in that 1 month period, you should be good for another cycle. Right N?


Yeah, i would say so. I had to get tested during my pct after my second cycle and 16 days into pct, my liver values and my free & bound test was normal.

----------


## flexin-rph

The reason I ask is I only have 2 days of PCT left & my sex-drive is not back, & I feel like I have no energy whatsoever. I didn't know if I should just lay off another week or two.

----------


## nsa

If your libido and energy level is low you should up your test booster. So if its still not back then increase the dose of clomid, in your case i would take as much time off as needed and start taking clomid again at 100 mg ED until your test levels are back to normal.

----------


## flexin-rph

Clomid 100mg ed along w/ the m1t or by itself along w/ some trib? Also, should I d/c the nolva now?

----------


## nsa

You can drop the nolvadex and use clomid with tribulus. Clomid is also a anti-estrogen, not as strong as nolvadex, but its main use is to increase test levels.

----------


## birsling

Let your body talk to you bro. I would hit up about 5g ED of Trib, that seemed to help me get back up to speed. I wouldn't cycle again until you FEEL ready, or go get some blood tests and check your levels, could be just mental.

----------


## nsa

Could be mental, but with something like that why risk it? See if you can get a blood test.

----------


## birsling

Bump for the newbies. Have we not yet established sticky-ness?

----------


## pimpjuice

I agree with NSA. Midget shouldnt touch any AAS until at least a few months of workingout

----------


## Marc Angelo

I agree that a person who is a newbie, or lacking muscle development, or is not well educated about the side effects, repercusions, consequences etc, of M1t or Steroids should stay away from them. However, some people are going to use them regardless of our opinions. I am not sure that by saying "this is not for newbies"/"go to another chat", or "go back and lift some more" (not that anyone has said that) will help the person asking the question.

----------


## nsa

I personally think that young people and/or inexperienced lifters should not use things like AAS or m1t, but if you are going to use them regardless just make sure you do your research and learn as much as you possibly can about the compounds you want to use.

----------


## brian11

this is a big ass thread! great info and advice though! mad props nsa

----------


## userabuser

Hmm, maybe now if some of you posted your results of the cycle.
I'm in my second week of pct and have not lost any gains. However, I did not experiance gains like some have. My bench is up 30lbs though and my other lifts did about that sort of gain as well.

I got a bit fat on cycle cuz I ate like a stinking pig. I'm trying to lose it and keep my gains at the same time on pct. So far, so good.
BTW, I did not gain alot of water.

----------


## birsling

I would definitely recommend a hefty intake, but a relatively clean one also. If you got very fat, I would say you could have cleaned up your diet just a little bit. Eat a lot, but you should still be eating for quality. JMO though

----------


## Marc Angelo

The problem with "cleaning up your diet" is that some supplements make me so hungry that I am ravenous, and there is n diet that works at that time. Some of us have a tricky metabolism that even If I eat salad with dressing on the side I am capable of putting 5 pounds, no exageration. But I hear it diet is the importance and preparing oneself before those ravenous moments.

----------


## nsa

Self control is always important for your diet, also alot of people who have heavy water retention also have very high sodium diets.

----------


## jgg1221

if i take M1-T alone will my gains stay hard after? or do i need to stack it

----------


## birsling

Stacking is a very proven method with a lot of good results to back it up. I would recommend putting the plan that is already set forth into action. Obviously do what you want, but NSA (and others) put a lot of time and effort into researching a working plan. THis thread makes it easy for everyone to know the pros and cons. In conclusion, stack it to minimize sides and maximize gain.

----------


## DirtyDog

I did a 2 week cycle the same as this posts cycle but without the 4-ad and gained 7lb with increases in all my lifts. During PCT I lost 1lb but it was back by the time I had finished.

Experienced no sides and didn't feel any different at all, until I started PCT when I couldn't finish my workouts and my strength went down for the first 6 days then everything was back to normal.

Im going to do my next cycle stacking with 4-ad and will probably put the M1T up to 15mg a day.

Is it ok to start my cycle taking 15mg a day or should I start with a smaller dose and build up to 15mg?

----------


## nsa

What are your stats?

----------


## DirtyDog

Im 174 lb, 6ft tall, 4.9% body fat. 3 years lifting experience, very active with a stupidly fast metabolism if thats makes any difference?

Cheers

----------


## nsa

I would start at 10 mg and work up. Thats not that much muscle mass for that height so you still have plenty to gain, you don't need to go higher than 10mg ED of m1t to make gains unless your over 200 or so.

----------


## DirtyDog

Nice one dude, 

Thanks

----------


## birsling

DD, I am 200lbs and saw gains with 10mg. NSA knows his sh*t, stick with his stack and you will do well.

----------


## PunyKid

Ok, from all the research and reading up I've done on this product, it seems pretty clear that the structure of this compund inhibits it from breaking down in the liver and that it does not aromatize or convert to estrogen. Ok, I am right so far, huh? So, here is my question: What is the point of taking the Milk Thistle and the Clomid or Nolvadex ? The way I see it, Milk Thistle is just a waste of money since M1T bypasses the liver. And, also, the Clomid and Nolvadex is a very big waste of money since this product won't be doing any converting to estrogen. This is the way I see it. But, please correct me if I am wrong, as I am quite new to steroid cylces. Also, I plan on doing my cycle 2 weeks on and then 2 weeks off. I have the bottle of M1T right here in front of me and it says in BOLD PRINT: Do NOT use this product for longer than 2 continuous weeks without taking a 2 week break form use. So, I'm just sticking with the recommened use to be on the safe side. Unless anyone can give me enough convincing to change my mind, I plan to run a 2 week on cycle/2 week off cycle with some Trib thrown in for PCT to bring my Test levels back to normal. This should be suffiecient enough. I'll let everyone know my results. Oh, btw I am 5' 8'' and I weigh 168 lbs., just to give y'all an idea of my stats. Thanks for the help.

----------


## userabuser

As I understand it, tribulus doesn't not promote test level increases. Clomid does. My bottle of m1t says one month. My other bottle says nothing. (UL)

I am not an expert on the liver thing with m1t, but I do follow the advise of those here that are more informed than I. And Milk Thistle is cheap and can't hurt.  :Smilie:

----------


## nsa

Do yourselves a favor and read the original post in this thread...

----------


## flexin-rph

Any problems running a 6-week cycle this time (I'm 2 weeks into my 2nd cycle)? I am
running the 4-derm & milk thistle & hawthorne berry also. Any input w/ experience is
appreciated.

----------


## nsa

Your going to use it for 6 weeks? I don't have any experience with that length and haven't heard much about it. I would assume that length would be alright, but i can not say for certain.

----------


## flexin-rph

I'm not certain on the 6 week run as of just yet, I just wanted to check it out if I did decide to go for it.

----------


## PunyKid

NSA, I did read the original post. This is the reason I am asking. I am confused. You said yourself in the original post that it is not brokendown by the liver and that it does not convert to estrogen. So, I do not understand what the need for the anti-estrogens and the milk thistle are for. Could you please explain.

----------


## nsa

It doesn't breakdown because it is methylated, this is bad for your liver. So you need milk thistle. You need nolvadex because 4-ad aromatizes just like any other testosterone .

----------


## DirtyDog

Not forgetting you get the estrogen rebound when you come off the M1T. Another reason why you need the Nolvadex .

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

As Ive said before, why would you question an obviously very researched cycle stack and try to come up with your own concoctions? Everything put into that stack has a purpose and is clearly explained in the original post.

----------


## birsling

> As Ive said before, why would you question an obviously very researched cycle stack and try to come up with your own concoctions? Everything put into that stack has a purpose and is clearly explained in the original post.


I don't understand this also. I lot of time, energy, and knowledge goes into this. Somebody else has done YOUR homework, and a number of people have proven the experiment. I think that possibly the most dangerous thing about any cycle is listed by PunyKid above. The idea that you should be worried about something for your safety being a waste of money. NEVER, I repeat, NEVER take any cycle without everything being purchased up front, never worry about what it costs (if you are worried, you are not in position to use that cycle, so wait), and always be well educated prior to taking the plunge (good job to all who are asking questions).

----------


## nsa

You should not just take someones word over the internet about something like this, but many people have used the sample cycle i wrote and had great gains and very little sides. The people who have had problems have mostly been people who decided not to use something that i recomended in the sample cycle. Everything in that stack is there for a reason. I am not making gaining anything by you spending money on extra supplements. I was only trying to spread what i know so people dion't mess themselves up and finding out the hard way how do stack it.

----------


## DevilsDeity

bump

----------


## GQSuperman

mods...is there a reason this isn't stickied? what's the hold up?

----------


## PunyKid

The only reason I had said that I was gonna just run the M1T and the Tribulus was b/c that was what my brother told me. He knows a lot more than me, but he doesn't divulge any of his secrets to me. You all probablly know him because he posts on this board almost everyday, but he won't tell me what his username is b/c "I'm gonna give him a bad reputation and right now he is in good with a lot of people on this board". So, I guess he was just telling me that to get me off his back. Anyways, I'm just gonna try the original cycle posted by NSA, but I have 3 questions: 1.)Why is the milk thistle taken after your cycle is finished and not during it? 2.)I already have the Tribulus so I want to use it. Can I substite it for the Clomid? (I don't really want to use the Clomid, b/c my brother took some before and broke out with the worst case of acne you ever seen). 3.)Where can I get the Nolvadex ?...everyone tells me it is better than Clomid. I guess I should stack it with the Tribulus? (CAN'T GET IT OFF OF THE WEBSITE MENTIONED EARLIER, they only have Clomid) 4.)Why does it say TRANSDERMAL 4-AD? What's this? Can I just use the regular kind? 5.)How has the acne and the hair loss been reported with any of this stuff on this cycle? These are my 2 big problem areas. Please let me know. Thanks, for all the help...can't wait to get all roided up!

----------


## nsa

1. Milk thistle run during a cycle of orals has been shown to effect the results slightly. If your gonna run a high dose or 2 orals you should definately run milk thistle. You could run milk thistle during the cycle if you want, the difference isn't really noticeable much. But at 10 mg ED of M1T your not going to destroy your liver in that time so you can do it without milk thistle, provided you are not drinking alcohol or anything else bad for your liver.

----------


## nsa

2. Tribulus IMO will not cut it for pct at all. You can use it during a long injectable AAS cycle to keep your testes in check. M1t is extremely suppresive of your hpta even in 4 weeks. Everyone reacts slightly different from things, I personally don't break out from clomid. I added winstrol this time and im breaking out everywhere. Everyone is different, even you and your brother...

----------


## nsa

3. Look at the top of the page. Get it there. And its different than clomid. I like clomid alot better than nolvadex if i had to pick one. Nolvadex is a real good anti-e but clomid acts like an anti-e too plus it boosts your test levels more than anything else i know of.

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## nsa

4. You can get this almost anywhere. Look at the top of the page. Transdermal means 'goes through the skin'. You spray it on, or lay it on if its a gel, and rub it in, then it goes through your skin and gets into you blood. Alot more complicated than that, but that should suffice to show you how it works.

----------


## nsa

5. I don't break or lose hair on M1T by itself, but i started breaking out when i stacked it with winstrol . I can't vouch for everyone else but i know most of the people who have bad hairloss and acne from m1t used a high dose. I still have not taken more than 10 mg ED and im still making good gains.

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## DevilsDeity

nsa is his your 2nd , 3rd what # cycle are you on?

----------


## nsa

> nsa is his your 2nd , 3rd what # cycle are you on?


This is my third m1t run... Probably my last too. I think it loses its effectiveness each time you use it. This go at it has been great, gained about 7 pounds of rock hard muscle, i have lost some water retention form before the cycle, vascularity is way up. Just good all around but im breaking out now cuz of the winstrol .

----------


## nsa

Fvck milk, M1t does a body good...

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## DevilsDeity

right on

----------


## PunyKid

How does the transdermal 4ad work? Do you rub it over your enitre body? Is the Tamox the same as Nolvadex ? I guess I'm gonna stack that with the Trib for PCT, if it's alright?

----------


## PunyKid

I just realized i paid $80 for my supply of m1t (VPX liquid), which lasts a month. The Underground Labs version costs only like $15 and also lasts a month. Is this right? Why is it so much cheaper?

----------


## nsa

> I just realized i paid $80 for my supply of m1t (VPX liquid), which lasts a month. The Underground Labs version costs only like $15 and also lasts a month. Is this right? Why is it so much cheaper?


They jacked up the price. M1T is cheap to make. Essentially they all have the same effectiveness, its all the same compound.

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## Soldier of Misfortune

> How does the transdermal 4ad work? Do you rub it over your enitre body? Is the Tamox the same as Nolvadex? I guess I'm gonna stack that with the Trib for PCT, if it's alright?


The 4derm is sprayed 5-6 sprays on one muscle group per dose, i.e. delts, bis, chest, etc. 

Tamoxifen citrate and nolvadex are the same things.

Nolva, clomid, and trib are all good for pct. Milk thistle too.

----------


## nsa

I personally use alot of 4-ad, i do about 6 sprays twice ED when on cycle. When taking that much you can not spray on one spot or else it would drip off of you. So i mostly put it on my pecs, delts, biceps and triceps. Its best to do it a little about getting out of the shower. Best results when you put it on a low fat region that is hairless or the place with the least hair. I find that taking an anti-aromatase like femara or proviron work well to keep the aromatization at bay.

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

Ive got two bottles of 4derm and 3.5 more coming in the mail from a member here on AR. I wanted to do 2 M1T cycles cuz I have enough M1T for two (go figure, not back to back, spread out of course) I did some quick math and it will be more than enough for two cycles. Should I still use the recomended amount of 400mg ED (200mg morn and 200mg at nite, 5 sprays each time) or bump it up to the nsa level or 6 sprays for 480mg ED? Ill have 5.5 bottles so it will be more than enough. (I got it reel cheap) Would it be better to start off at 400mg ED and then if the lethargy is bad bump it up to 6 or 7 sprays ED?

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## PunyKid

This seems like too much trouble spraying it on your body. Why not just get it in the pill form?

----------


## nsa

Soldier, i like it alot more at a higher dose. But if your gonan do that get some femara from AR-R to stop aromatization. You could start at 600 mg ED no problem.

Puny, Its not nearly as effective in oral form. If its too much of a hassle to spray it on, then the only other effective way of countering the non-existent test levels is injectable test, like prop.

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## Soldier of Misfortune

Plus your liver is taking enough of a beating from the M1T so why make it work extra hard for the 4AD?

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

What better place to gain senior membership than in the M1T faq? 

Thanks for the 4derm response nsa. I looked on AR-R and couldnt find femara, but then clicked on everything to see if it was named something else. Sure enough it was Letro. Looks like Im gettin ANOTHER package in the mail.

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## PunyKid

Can someone tell me where I can get the Hawthorne Berry Extract for a good price? I can't seem to find it anywhere. Thanks.

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## nsa

Many herbal places on the net to get it. Or just go to your local vitamin store they should have it. Lots of old people use it.

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## supdude24

what is the total cost of this M1t cycle?cheap?

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## nsa

Not too much, can't be over 100$...

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## supdude24

how many M1t equal the liver toxicity of 1 D-bol or anadrol ?

----------


## nsa

I don't think there are many, if any, studies into the quantitative hepatoxicity of orals in humans. Just generally known as being more or less liver toxic than eachother or not. Not to mention the way you phrased your question isn't the best, due to the fact that different labs produce different dosed orals...

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## GQSuperman

M1T about $10
4Ad 2 bottles about $35
Tribulus 2 bottles about $15
Hawthorne Berry about $10

Clen about $45
Nolva about $45
MIlk Thistle 2 bottles about $20

so about $180.

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## birsling

> M1T about $10
> 4Ad 2 bottles about $35
> Tribulus 2 bottles about $15
> Hawthorne Berry about $10
> 
> Clen about $45
> Nolva about $45
> MIlk Thistle 2 bottles about $20
> 
> so about $180.


Cost is dependant on where you get your supplies, but this is a decent overview.

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## GQSuperman

these prices are estimates on what i bought from bulknutrition and from anabolicreview-research.com.. i think they are pretty much the cheapest places to buy the necessary ingredients.

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## nsa

Yeah thats about right. Little on the high side but its generally what most would pay for it, i was forgetting about pct when i said 100$.

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## DirtyDog

> M1T about $10
> 4Ad 2 bottles about $35
> Tribulus 2 bottles about $15
> Hawthorne Berry about $10
> 
> Clen about $45
> Nolva about $45
> MIlk Thistle 2 bottles about $20
> 
> so about $180.


You forgot the Clomid.

About $45

Also, where the hell do you get 2 bottles of tribulus for $15?
Im in the UK and it costs about £18 ($32) for one bottle of a brand you've never heard of before. Ones from big companies cost £23 ($41) upwards!

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## co2boi

I just bought some "M1T Plus" that has Milk Thistle, Hawthorne Berry, Licorice Root 4:1, and Methyl 1 Test in it for $22 - 80 caps

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## unclemoney

co2boi were did you get that m1t plus?

----------


## co2boi

> co2boi were did you get that m1t plus?


http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/hp/mplus.html

Looks the price when up a few bucks. Still not a bad deal though

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## Marc Angelo

I'd do a search and find who's cheaper. In any case couple of hundred dollars are not bad fopr the result you get.

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## co2boi

For each his own, but I didn't really do any PST with M1T. I started a clen / eca cycle immediately afterwards and supplmented tongkat ali (along with other non-relevant things) and I was fine

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## GQSuperman

did you have a blood test to check your test levels after the cycle? if you're referring to you "feeling alright", i'm sure you did. that doesn't necessarily mean you didn't need PCT.

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## co2boi

> did you have a blood test to check your test levels after the cycle? if you're referring to you "feeling alright", i'm sure you did. that doesn't necessarily mean you didn't need PCT.


You may be absolutely correct. I just used the usual gauges...horniness, anger, strength, etc. Nothing exacting.

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## PunyKid

I went to the website linked to this forum but they only have the Tamox in liquid that you have to shoot up. I have never done this before and I don't really want to unless I have to. Can anyone PM me as to where I can find someTamox/Nolvadex in pill form? OR WILL THE PILL FORM BE BAD FOR MY LIVER? And, if you don't know where I can get some, could you please tell me what kind of needles and syringes to buy and how many? What about cotton swabs or anything else? Thanks.

----------


## supdude24

could i get by with just using Tribulis instead of clomid for pct? I have a couple of boxes of clomid but i don't wanna use them till i do my real cycle of of Test/Deca this November. and im scared to order more clomid because my buddy got his gear siezed by customs and im afraid that company has been flagged now.:/

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## DevilsDeity

> I went to the website linked to this forum but they only have the Tamox in liquid that you have to shoot up. I have never done this before and I don't really want to unless I have to. Can anyone PM me as to where I can find someTamox/Nolvadex in pill form? OR WILL THE PILL FORM BE BAD FOR MY LIVER? And, if you don't know where I can get some, could you please tell me what kind of needles and syringes to buy and how many? What about cotton swabs or anything else? Thanks.


you CAN take the liquid's oraly .

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## DevilsDeity

> could i get by with just using Tribulis instead of clomid for pct? I have a couple of boxes of clomid but i don't wanna use them till i do my real cycle of of Test/Deca this November. and im scared to order more clomid because my buddy got his gear siezed by customs and im afraid that company has been flagged now.:/


just order the liquid clomid from AR-R (the board sponser)
i ordered stuff from them on sunday and had it on wed.

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## birsling

> I went to the website linked to this forum but they only have the Tamox in liquid that you have to shoot up. I have never done this before and I don't really want to unless I have to. Can anyone PM me as to where I can find someTamox/Nolvadex in pill form? OR WILL THE PILL FORM BE BAD FOR MY LIVER? And, if you don't know where I can get some, could you please tell me what kind of needles and syringes to buy and how many? What about cotton swabs or anything else? Thanks.


Bro, not only CAN you take those orally, but you NEED to take them orally. These are not sealed, sterile, injectable compounds.

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## Psychotron

mine wasnt near 180.
1 x M1T (60 Tablets) = $9.99
2 x 4Derm (4 oz) = $39.98
3 x Silymarin Milk Thistle Extract (120 Capsules/150mg) = $29.97
1 x USP Tamoxifen Citrate 60ml = $30.00
1 x USP Clomiphene Citrate 60ml = $25.00

total: $135 plus shipping from various places put me at 145

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## AGGRESSIVEKUBA

Great Info

----------


## nsa

10 pages... Sticky anyone.

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## bigordie

wow this thread has been around for a while...i second that, STICKY

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## PunyKid

Ahhh, so you drink the stuff....I see. I'm in business now. I just need to get my hands on some b5 vitamins and I can start my cycle. I'm gonna keep y'all posted as to my gains and any side effects. I plan on getting to 200. I weigh like 168 right now.

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## birsling

Good luck on your quest puny. It is going to take a lot of hard work, and more than one cycle of M1T to pack on 32lbm, but I wish you luck.

----------


## DAMBIGlsu

Just an FYI for anyone who cares. I have done 2 M-1-T cycles and my PCT has been different for each. First cycle I gained 17lbs. and kept 15lbs.(lost alil bf% too) on a 6-OXO and Tribulus PCT. Second cycle I gained about 14lbs. and gained another 2lbs. during a PCT of just clomid. Neither of my cycles I used 4-ad first I was slightly lethargic towards the end, second cycle it hit me after 1.5 weeks. Next cycle I am going to use a methyl 4-ad with the M-1-T and probably going to use a nolvedex, clomid, and possibly HCG PCT. Throwing the HCG in there just for fun. I read as much as I could on the post but must have missed the one thing I wanted some other oppions on. Do you think supplementing a tribulus supplement like Vitrix or something similar would help keep natural test levels from completely shutting down. I am not looking for it to keep me from becomeing lethargic just wondering if it would help towards the end. Had someone on another board tell me that taking Tribulus would make it harder to come back. I know a good bit so I didn't want to believe him without getting some other oppions.

Anything would be appreciated, thanks guys. Sorry if it was in here and I didn't see it.

----------


## PunyKid

Do y'all think it would be a good idea to take Finasteride while on M1T? I mean there is no doubt about it I have the genes for baldness, but I've taken Propecia for 6 months before and it did not help grow back any hair. However, I don't know if it would have prevented further hairloss if I would have been doing a cycle. Should I try it?

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## wired-up

GQSuperman, check your PM's.

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## GQSuperman

would anyone else not recommend this? taking a methyl 4AD with M1T? seems like a lot of stress on the liver.

just wondered when i read this above.

----------


## nsa

Whats wrong with transdermal 4-ad?

----------


## wired-up

> Whats wrong with transdermal 4-ad?


he said methyl 4AD, not the regular 4AD. the methylated form is much more potent. just like the diff between 1-test and methyl 1-test.

edit: unless the transdermal you're refering to is also M4AD

----------


## rocco78

> would anyone else not recommend this? taking a methyl 4AD with M1T? seems like a lot of stress on the liver.
> 
> just wondered when i read this above.


I wouldn't recommend it. No need. I think the transderm 4-AD works amazingly well, with MUCH less stress on the liver. I can't imagine taking more than one meth'd compound at a time. Your body reacts to the toxicity by the 7th day, that's why it makes you so tired and gives you back aches. Your liver is vital, be careful.

----------


## birsling

> Do y'all think it would be a good idea to take Finasteride while on M1T? I mean there is no doubt about it I have the genes for baldness, but I've taken Propecia for 6 months before and it did not help grow back any hair. However, I don't know if it would have prevented further hairloss if I would have been doing a cycle. Should I try it?


I don't know if you should jump into Fina right now bro. Especially if you want to keep your hair. Did I miss your stats? Height, weight, history, etc?

----------


## nsa

> he said methyl 4AD, not the regular 4AD. the methylated form is much more potent. just like the diff between 1-test and methyl 1-test.
> 
> edit: unless the transdermal you're refering to is also M4AD


I know its more potent, but the extra potency is not worth the extra stress on your liver.

----------


## AGGRESSIVEKUBA

think about starting a m1t cycle next month right now im 511-6ft 211lb i was thinking of 15mg of m1t every day taking 1 1/2 tablets inthe morning and the other 1 1/2 at night with all the proper stuff and pct is this a smart idea ???

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

Yeah, smart to split it up, thats what youre sposta do. Follow the rest of the sample cycle and youre set.

----------


## PunyKid

> I don't know if you should jump into Fina right now bro. Especially if you want to keep your hair. Did I miss your stats? Height, weight, history, etc?


I am not talking about Fina as in Finaplex or Tren . I am talking about Finasteride, the stuff that is similar to Propecia and is supposed to help stop the steroids from converting to DHT, and thus prevent hair loss. Does anybody know is it worth taking? Or, is it just a big waste of money?

----------


## PunyKid

I have a question. Why on the sample cycle posted, you have 40 mg of nolvadex ED for the first 2 weeks, but whenever on a regular cycle you take only 20 mg ED for 3 weeks? You understand what I'm saying? Why would you take more when using M1T and 4AD as opposed to taking real testoterone? It's my belief there's much more probabilty of aromitazation when using testosterone as opposed to M!T and 4AD.

----------


## nsa

Its like that to be on the safe side of things, i wrote that cycle with safety in mind, i am not going to suggest something that i don't know for sure is safe or not.

----------


## sore24/7

> I am not talking about Fina as in Finaplex or Tren. I am talking about Finasteride, the stuff that is similar to Propecia and is supposed to help stop the steroids from converting to DHT, and thus prevent hair loss. Does anybody know is it worth taking? Or, is it just a big waste of money?


finasteride only works well with test. or somthing like 4ad which converts to test. but thats it.

----------


## Chad Walker

I'm 18 and on my second cycle of M1T, 20mg a day for 3 weeks. Been lifting consistently for three years. Besides stunting my growth (I'm already 6 foot) are there any other adverse side effects that I should be worried about? I am taking milk thistle for any possible liver damage. Diet is in check. This cycle I started stacking Tribulus with the M1T, should this give good results or cause damage of some sort?

Thanks

----------


## PunyKid

> I'm 18 and on my second cycle of M1T, 20mg a day for 3 weeks. Been lifting consistently for three years. Besides stunting my growth (I'm already 6 foot) are there any other adverse side effects that I should be worried about? I am taking milk thistle for any possible liver damage. Diet is in check. This cycle I started stacking Tribulus with the M1T, should this give good results or cause damage of some sort?
> 
> Thanks


****, that's a lot to be taking. Most people only do 10 mg a day. How did your first cyle turn out? Don't you know all the side effects steroids can cause. Hair loss, acne, growing boobies, etc. From what I know the Trib is better to run after you get off the M1T for post cylce therapy.

----------


## Chad Walker

First cycle I gained 12 lbs with amazing results in every lift. Size and strength gains were immense. Much better than with Boldione or 1-Test cycles that I have done in the past. I was mistaken, sorry the tribulus that I have isn't pure, it's part of the Dymatize Nutrition Z-Force anabolic complex. Anything change from that?

----------


## nsa

Your run the risk of jumbling up your hpta and endocrine system by using things like m1t before your natural test levels plateau. That said, you run the risk and it doesn't neccarily mean you will get messed up. My thinking is why risk it, just keep lifting progressively and eating alot of clean foods.

----------


## Chad Walker

I'm just going to finish out this cycle (2 weeks left) and see where I am from there. I want to continue lifting permanently... so I might be natural for a few years.

----------


## userabuser

On second cycle. Started passing blood in urine today. Doctor said looks like a urinary tract infection. Rather scary. I told him about the m1t, he said "what's that?"  :Smilie: 

I do not think it's related to the M1T

----------


## WISHMASTER

WOW! this is a great thread, just what I was looking for. I am getting ready to start my second cycle next Friday. My first cycle was S1+ and although I gained 15 pounds I was only able to keep 7 of it. I am 5'8 and 39 young years old. WHen I started the S1 I was at 155 dry in the morning and got up to 170 dry in the morning but now Im down to 162. I am finishing my PCT with just Nolvadex . So now Im going to do a cycle of M1T and am going to follow the SAMPLE cycle on the first post to a T!

I am going to do 10mgs a day out of the UL bottle so thats 2 pills a day. No where have I read when is a good time to take the pills? I do my workouts at 5pm if that helps.


thanks guys for the informative thread! 

Everything is purchased just waiting till next week to start.

----------


## userabuser

Welcome wishmaster!

I take them 12 hours apart.

BTW, I'm 43 (as of a coupla days ago) Currently 161.5 lbs.

Also, did you take clomid during pct?

My second cycle seems to have much less affect so far than my first. (I'm a about 10 days into it)

----------


## WISHMASTER

I did not take anything except Nolvadex for PCT. Maybe thats why I have lost 8 pounds. Ive also been taking milk thistle during post to get my liver ready for anything during this next cycle. I have read that its not good to take a pill right before working out, true? So if I get up at 6:30am take 1 pill and take the other after my workout?

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## Soldier of Misfortune

Take the second one later in the day. Im going to take half my stuff for the day after my morning shower and the other half after my nite shower. The 4derm is absorbed better through softer skin and your pores are open.

----------


## Joe King

how long should M1T be taken for at a time, 2 weeks, 3 weeks or 4 weeks?
and should milk thistle be taken at the same time or post cycle, and for how long?

----------


## statuZ

> how long should M1T be taken for at a time, 2 weeks, 3 weeks or 4 weeks?
> and should milk thistle be taken at the same time or post cycle, and for how long?


did you even read the first post?

----------


## Joe King

great answer.  :Hmmmm:   :Dancing Banana:

----------


## unclemoney

I've known this thread has been around a while and I just noticed.... holy crap look at how many times this thread has been viewed compared to how many times the sticky's have been viewed.... I def cast 4 gazillion votes saying this should be a sticky. Too bad nsa wasnt around for my 1st m1t cycle but luckily he had this posted and from this thread and other peoples advice I had a good 2nd cycle on this stuff. Currently gona try something else and am going with m-1,4ad//s1+.

----------


## nsa

> I've known this thread has been around a while and I just noticed.... holy crap look at how many times this thread has been viewed compared to how many times the sticky's have been viewed.... I def cast 4 gazillion votes saying this should be a sticky. Too bad nsa wasnt around for my 1st m1t cycle but luckily he had this posted and from this thread and other peoples advice I had a good 2nd cycle on this stuff. Currently gona try something else and am going with m-1,4ad//s1+.


That is what im going to do next, 120mg m-1,4-add and double dose s1+. M1t loses effectiveness after each cycle, so im to the point where i don't think it will work much for me unless i up the dose which i don't want to do.

----------


## WISHMASTER

I have a few questions, Im going to start my cycle on Friday.
1) does the Trib really help keep the nads thier normal size? Also, should I take it starting on day 1 and all the way thru out PCT also? Will any kind of trib work or do I need a certain brand.
2) its says to take the Hawthorn Berry Week 1-4.....do I start on the 1st day with the recommended dose?
3) If I start my cycle on Friday but dont go to the gym till Monday will that be OK? kinda like loading up on it. Reason I want to start on a weekend is to see if I start to feel funny from the M1T. I didnt when I did my S1 cycle.
4) should I start the 4-ad the same morning I start the M1T? or wait a few days or even a week?

Ive got all the stuff except for the TRIB. Im doing this cycle with 2 other guys and they dont think they need anything else other than the M1T...I tried to tell them but they dont listen. I guess we'll see.


sorry for all the questions!

----------


## wired-up

> did you even read the first post?


awesome!  :Elephant:   :Dancing Banana:

----------


## nsa

All of those questions are covered in my initial post.

----------


## WISHMASTER

no they are not!.....and yes I did read the post. My questions go into a little more detail than what your first post talks about.

----------


## wired-up

> no they are not!.....and yes I did read the post.


bro, you need to chill and show some respect on here or you're gonna get flamed to high heaven.  :Don't know:

----------


## WISHMASTER

I am chillin. My reply was not to be taken the way you took it. I always show respect on any of the forums I post on. I simply meant that the answers to my question were not in the original post or aleast I didnt see them. Maybe if I read between the lines. Help me out here, is there something Im not reading? Disregard the (!) in my reply and then maybe it will be taken the way it was meant to be.

----------


## wired-up

> I am chillin. My reply was not to be taken the way you took it.


that's cool bro, just trying to help you out. i saw the low post count and assumed that you might not know proper etiquite for board use and was just looking out for ya.  :Thumbs Up:

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## Soldier of Misfortune

Skereously, all those questions are in the orig post. Yes, you start all things the first day of a 4 week cycle minus PCT items, which all start the same day. I dunno where you got the idea of staggering it. I forgot the other questions but theyre all in the orig or subsequent posts. Everyone has the same basic questions. 

Tell your friends they will get very lethargic if they dont take 4derm, and high bp w/ no hawthorne. And no more balls if they dont take clomid and b!tch tits if they dont take nolva. That or just tell em theyre stupid.

----------


## Joe King

I have hawthorn berry extract in the form of liquid, so how many mililitres should i be taking a day?

----------


## birsling

What is the dosage per mL? It should say something on the bottle

----------


## Joe King

it says this " 0.5ml (or 10 drops),upto six times per day"
does that mean 10 drops of 0.5 ml six times a day or does it mean 0.5ml six times a day?

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## Soldier of Misfortune

You need to find out how many mg of powder there are in each mL of solution. It should say on the bottle. Droppers arent acurate at all, get an oral syringe or a regular injection one will work.

----------


## birsling

I am not asking you what the bottle says the recommended serving is, I am asking what the mg/mL concentration is. If it doesn't say that, you can always look at the amount of mg in 1 serving. If it is 100mg in a serving, and a serving is 1mL, multiply it out, and you should know how much to take. If it is that confusing, buy the pills. They are cheap, and easier to take/dose

----------


## WISHMASTER

guys, Im going to start my cycle tomorrow and I have everything except the TIRBULUS....Its going to be here on Monday. I do have an extra bottle of 6-OXO laying around. Can I take that till my TRIB gets here? Will that work to keep my boys around their normal size for the first few days of my cycle? if yes I can , how many pills should I take?

----------


## nsa

Not really, its a suicide estrogen inhibitor so all it will do is keep the estrogen from 4-ad at bay. Get clomid and nolvadex .

----------


## WISHMASTER

Ive already got some Clomid and Nolva but thats for PCT. Ive got everything you listed in the sample cycle.
I was wanting to take something for the first couple of days since my TRIBULUS wont be here for a few days. You think I'll be ok if I dont take anything. How long does it usually take for my nads to shut down? I know its gonna happen as it did when I did my cycle of S1+ but they didnt shrink up. Im just worried about them shrinking up while take M1T.

----------


## nsa

You don't need to take anything like trib or 6-oxo during the cycle, don't waste the money. It will take a while to shut you down real hard, i would say end of second week your balls will be shrinking.

----------


## WISHMASTER

WEll I started this morning with 1 pill and 5 sprays of the 4-ad and 1 pill of HB at 565 mgs.....I guess we'll see what happens. I'll do the 10mgs for atleast a week and see if I feel anything. I'll split up the HB so I get in atleast 1500mgs a days. I also stopped taking my creatrine and will start again during PCT.
I did my first dose at 7:00am so I'll do the other at 7:00 pm'ish
I wont be hitting the gym til Monday so I should be well loaded with this stuff.

Im going to follow your sample cycle. 

Im 5'8 and weigh in at 162 in the mornings. going to try and take in about 3500 cals a day. SO hopefully I can get up to 180 mark and keep atleast 170-75lbs.


any advice? or anything I missed?

thanks!

----------


## nsa

Try and get around 4000 cals ED and stay at 10 mg throughout the cycle, there is no need for someone thats 160 pounds to be using more than 10, you will get good results if you eat clean, eat often and workout hard with a good split.

----------


## nsa

And don't forget clomid, nolvadex and milk thistle. Creatine and clenbuterol are other thing that will help you maintain your gains or maybe even gain some more weight during pct.

----------


## WISHMASTER

will do! Yes I do have all the stuff for PCT. I was thinking about getting some Clen and trying that out with PCT....but I can wait to buy that. 4000 cals is alot but I'll try and down that much. I do eat clean with a cheat meal once a week. I eat alot of MRP's, protien shakes, chicken, beef and get my EFA's from Flax seed oils.

----------


## WISHMASTER

well Ive been on my cycle since Friday so that makes 3.5 days and the mild headaches have started. I havent been to the gym yet, going today. My 2 friends are wondering if taking caffeine is ok while on the cycle? The tiredness is also starting. mild for me since Im on 4-ad as well.

----------


## nsa

Up the 4-ad dose and increase your carbohydrate intake to get rid of any lethargy. M1t messes up your blood-glucose levels, making you almost glycemic. Also get some hawthorne berry extract or if you are already taking it, up your dose of that to get rid of headaches.(also helps if for some reason your heart is racing alot)

----------


## nsa

Bump for newbies...

----------


## wired-up

> Bump for newbies...


hey man. great info. i talked to a trainer at the gym the other day when i was getting my BF checked. he started trying to tell me about diet and stuff. so we got to talking about supplements and he mentioned he was on M1T. i asked him "what else" and he said "what do you mean?" i said "what are you taking for PCT? what are taking to safe guard your liver?" he said the stuff he was on had 6-oxo (only after i mentioned it) and the guy at the nutrition store said he didn't need PCT due to the contents in the M1T he was taking. i told him to find this thread and read it. do you know how much of this stuff applies to 1-test (not M1T) and some of the other PH/PS's? i've been told that 1-test and others aren't as toxic as M1T so you don't need the milk thistle. i was also told that you only needed tribulus for PCT. i'm going to run some nolva and clomid though. thanks for all your effort with this.

----------


## LeanMeOut

11 Pages  :Strong Smiley:   :EEK!:

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

> i asked him "what else" and he said "what do you mean?" i said "what are you taking for PCT? what are taking to safe guard your liver?" he said the stuff he was on had 6-oxo (only after i mentioned it) and the guy at the nutrition store said he didn't need PCT due to the contents in the M1T he was taking.


Just goes to show you people in suppstores are morons.

----------


## nsa

And trainers for the most part.  :LOL: 

But you don't need milk thidtle for 1-test. You still should stack it with 4-ad, and i personally would not use tribulus or 6-oxo for pct for anything., get clomid and nolvadex .

----------


## wired-up

> get clomid and nolvadex.


yeah, i've got these on hand, ready to go. you're suggested PCT is a little different than Pheedno's (his is for real gear though) i was wondering if there was that much of a difference? you use more nolva, but less clomid. is there a method to this madness?  :Wink/Grin:  i've only got a week left on my cycle, so it's not really worth it to get 4-AD at this point. i never had any lethargy or loss of appetite on 1-test. if anything, my appetite and energy went up. strength is up across the board. 30lb increase on bench in 3 weeks for example.  :Dancing Banana: 

edit: forgot to mention that i'm stacking 1-test with Finigenx made by Pharmagenx. It's roughly equivalent to Tren in the way 1-test is equivalent to test.

----------


## nsa

Pheedno's pct is 100 mg of clomid and 10 mg of nolvadex for 3-4 weeks i believe. But i think that front loading clomid works, some people don't but for me i know it gets my test levels back quicker, i have regular blood tests to verify this.

----------


## GQSuperman

i started my cycle of M1T earlier this week. i'm posting my progress in the cycle section with before and after photo's. i've also given a brief summary of my daily diet and my routine. 

http://forums.anabolicreview.com/sho...d.php?t=128229

----------


## wired-up

> Pheedno's pct is 100 mg of clomid and 10 mg of nolvadex for 3-4 weeks i believe. But i think that front loading clomid works, some people don't but for me i know it gets my test levels back quicker, i have regular blood tests to verify this.


good to know. especially with test results to solidify it. thanks.

----------


## 63190

Don't flame on me for I have not finished reading the 11 pages that this thread is before asking my questions. Not yet any way.

Question 1: What is the recomended dosage ratio mg/lb?
Question 2: Should I cut up before going on an M1T/4-AD cycle? I've been trying to bulk for a while now and I think I'm around 20%BF now. I'm coming off a shoulder AC injury. I used to 1RM at 280 and right now I'm having a hard time doing 5 reps at 225 and inline DB's press at 75lbs for 8 reps. I'm 6'3" and 202lbs right now. I'm 28yrs now. Been lifting steadly for 3 years now. Never done a cycle of anything.
Question 3: Being that this a bulking supplement, can I still take creatine with it? I dont' think I'm going to use ON's Serious Mass any more. I'll switch to Pure Whey and Micellar Matrix before bed.
Question 4: I live near the border of Mexico. Can I trust the clomid and nolvadex I get from the pharmacies that are about five blocks apart from each other over there?

----------


## nsa

> Don't flame on me for I have not finished reading the 11 pages that this thread is before asking my questions. Not yet any way.
> 
> Question 1: What is the recomended dosage ratio mg/lb?
> Question 2: Should I cut up before going on an M1T/4-AD cycle? I've been trying to bulk for a while now and I think I'm around 20%BF now. I'm coming off a shoulder AC injury. I used to 1RM at 280 and right now I'm having a hard time doing 5 reps at 225 and inline DB's press at 75lbs for 8 reps. I'm 6'3" and 202lbs right now. I'm 28yrs now. Been lifting steadly for 3 years now. Never done a cycle of anything.
> Question 3: Being that this a bulking supplement, can I still take creatine with it? I dont' think I'm going to use ON's Serious Mass any more. I'll switch to Pure Whey and Micellar Matrix before bed.
> Question 4: I live near the border of Mexico. Can I trust the clomid and nolvadex I get from the pharmacies that are about five blocks apart from each other over there?


If under 200 then 10 mg m1t.
If over 200 then 15-20 mg m1t.
This is with a low body fat %.
I think that cutting is always good before a cycle of something androgenic , you need to get you bf% as low as possible before taking any bulking supplement.
Yes, you can use creatine, i like starting out with creatine then dropping it and starting it again along with pct to help keep strength.
Why not get your ancillaries from AR-R ?

----------


## 63190

> If under 200 then 10 mg m1t.
> If over 200 then 15-20 mg m1t.
> This is with a low body fat %.
> I think that cutting is always good before a cycle of something androgenic , you need to get you bf% as low as possible before taking any bulking supplement.
> Yes, you can use creatine, i like starting out with creatine then dropping it and starting it again along with pct to help keep strength.
> Why not get your ancillaries from AR-R?


Dang, I've just gotten to 202lbs and some chicks told me I looked good like that, not all skinny like I was. I had gotten down to a cut (7-10%BF) for a while. Of course these chicks are my friends and they are fat. So the closer I am to looking like them I guess they like that better.
Any way, I guess I'll just try to level out or lean out between now and three months from now. Start a cycle in mid January.
I guess, I'll have to come down to 190 and then do 10mg for four weeks.
How many mg or mcg for the 4-AD?
Can I find dosage guide lines for the clomid and nolva in the PCT forum if I do a search? Or do I just do exactly as you did?
And as to why not order form AR-R , well, I just thought it would be less hassle going to Mexico, and if I should ever step up AAS, I would already be familure with procuring PCT. My parents go over to get amoxicillan and other anitbiotics.
Thanks for answering nsa, you're  :Cool:

----------


## nsa

> Dang, I've just gotten to 202lbs and some chicks told me I looked good like that, not all skinny like I was. I had gotten down to a cut (7-10%BF) for a while. Of course these chicks are my friends and they are fat. So the closer I am to looking like them I guess they like that better.
> Any way, I guess I'll just try to level out or lean out between now and three months from now. Start a cycle in mid January.
> I guess, I'll have to come down to 190 and then do 10mg for four weeks.
> How many mg or mcg for the 4-AD?
> Can I find dosage guide lines for the clomid and nolva in the PCT forum if I do a search? Or do I just do exactly as you did?
> And as to why not order form AR-R , well, I just thought it would be less hassle going to Mexico, and if I should ever step up AAS, I would already be familure with procuring PCT. My parents go over to get amoxicillan and other anitbiotics.
> Thanks for answering nsa, you're


With buying from ar-r you know that the stuff isn't bunk. I also would like to point out that there is not exactly a clear line between the 10-20 mg per day dose. Alot of things come into play here, BF%, height. I would start with 10 mg ED then bump it up to 15, if 10 mg isn't making you stronger by the end of week 2.

----------


## 63190

Whew! Just finished reading every single post on here. It took me the better part of a week to do. I'm way behind in reading The Lord of The Rings now.
Any way, I did find out about front loading the PCT now. I also saw that stuff about upping the HB to get rid of headaches. Probably the most important thing I learned is that to stack means to use similtaniously. I had completely misunderstood this. I thought weeks 1-4 M1T then 5-8 4AD. LOL Now I know that it's both. Some how on the sample cycle I got confuzzled.

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## 63190

Bump. This should be a sticky.

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## SickNasty

Stickie! Stickie!

----------


## birsling

Stick it up!

----------


## birtcheh

this is so large!

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## OSTIE

I hope this wasnt posted in one of the 10 previous pages..... but why transdermal 
4-ad as opposed to powder?

----------


## nsa

You mean why transdermal instead of oral? The reason i ask is that you could take powder and combine it with a transdermal gel to make your own transdermal 4-ad.

----------


## birsling

Or Ostie, are you asking why transdermal vs. capped powder?

No matter what you are asking, I believe your answer is going to be absorption rate and effectiveness. On top of those, transdermals are so fast and easy to use. How many caps can one person take in a day  :Smilie: ?

----------


## wired-up

> How many caps can one person take in a day ?


i've taken 30 flax gels in one day before (not all at once)  :Dancing Banana:

----------


## nsa

> Or Ostie, are you asking why transdermal vs. capped powder?
> 
> No matter what you are asking, I believe your answer is going to be absorption rate and effectiveness. On top of those, transdermals are so fast and easy to use. How many caps can one person take in a day ?


This is correct, transdermals generally have a much better absorbtion rate than oral ph's, thus being more effective for gains. I don't understand why people don't want to use transdermals but instead want to go with orals. Orals are more expensive and less effective.

----------


## birsling

> This is correct, transdermals generally have a much better absorbtion rate than oral ph's, thus being more effective for gains. I don't understand why people don't want to use transdermals but instead want to go with orals. Orals are more expensive and less effective.



Thanks N! It looks like I have learned a lot from you bro  :Thumbs Up:

----------


## OSTIE

Sorry guys, I meant the capped powder.... just trying to get my post out fast before I headed back to school.

Thanks for the response, if I eventually decide to do an m1t cycle, ill pick up the 4derm. Its just hard telling my brain the a spray is better than ingesting something. You guys are smart though, so I believe ya.

Thanks,

-ost

----------


## Bleche

In the first post it says supplementing with Tribulus will keep your testicles from shrinking while on cycle, it doesn't say anything about dosage in any of the other posts (unless I am blind, which is possible  :Wink:  ), so what would you recommend if taking 10mg of M1T a day excluding the 4-ad?

Thanks!

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## nsa

I wouldn't drop the 4-ad if i was you...

That being said, tribulus works well around 5 grams ED.

----------


## DirtyDog

> I wouldn't drop the 4-ad if i was you...
> 
> That being said, tribulus works well around 5 grams ED.


5mg of Tribulus at what percentage steroidal sapoins?  :Yellow Confused:

----------


## nsa

The highest percentage you can find. I think most are 45% but there is one somewhere that is 80% saponins.

----------


## DirtyDog

> The highest percentage you can find. I think most are 45% but there is one somewhere that is 80% saponins.


Yeah, I've only seen ones at 45%.

Does anyone know who the 80% one is made by?

----------


## DevilsDeity

Vitrix BY Nutrex Research
Liquid German Tribulus Terrestris 1000 mg 
Total Saponins 80% 
Protodioscin 20%

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## nsa

From the feedback i've heard from my freinds vitrix is a very solid supplement...

----------


## DirtyDog

> Vitrix BY Nutrex Research
> Liquid German Tribulus Terrestris 1000 mg 
> Total Saponins 80% 
> Protodioscin 20%


Nice one dude, cheers

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## jmillerdls

jesus, ive been looking for hours and can't find any liquid form of these...just pill form, and its expensive as hell ($50 for 30 20mg tablets, which id clearly need more than one order of)...really wish there was a way to help others find it

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## jmillerdls

alright, just came across it...good price too, so now im happy  :Smilie: 
anabloicminds.com is a good place to search, although it took me awhile to find a place that was up to date

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## nsa

Support the board. Buy it from Anabolicreview - research...

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## DevilsDeity

man i just spilled about 1/2 oz of 4derm all over my desk and legs
this should be fun

----------


## DustinLati

3 questions that havent been asked yet (i read the whole 12 pages twice, ive also been studying other boards for quite a while about m1t.)

1. How should I train while on M1t? Ive been using t-nation's ABBH program (for anyone not famlilar with it http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459341. Basically its a mixture of powerlifting and endurance lifting....i guess its called "Hypertrophy training" Hypertrophy for anyone that doesnt know is "an increase in mass or girth". One day your using 3RM weight, 4 days later your using 16RM weight for the same muscle group, but with excersizes on a different plane...horizontal one day, vertical 4 days later. I plan on following it up with 2 of their other programs that use similar principals. I really like this program so far being natural, but i dont know if its the best way to train while on a PH. I want as much "mass or girth" as i can get out of this cycle. Should I go back to the way i was training before (which was Max-OT...5 day split, 1 bodypart per day, low volume, heavy weight, 4-6 reps) 

2. im 20 y/o and 5'11"...am i done growing (in height)? And will taking m1t completely STOP me from getting any taller, because i would love to squeeze out an extra inch or two if i could, but i dont know if im done growing. Im already taller than both my parents and most people in my family, but im sure that doesnt really mean much. I know NSA said it will cause my growth plates to close, but i dont know what that means. Once i take m1t am i stuck at 5"11" forever?

3. A friend of mine ran a cycle of m1t because some retard he trains with was taking it. I asked him what he took for PCT and he said "whats that". He basically took m1t everday for a couple weeks, with nothing else during or after his cycle. I explained to him what PCT was and he said "nah i dont need any of that, im fine, i didnt notice any sides". This doesnt necesarilly mean hes 100% ok does it? Could there be something wrong with him that he doesnt know about? i DID talk him into PCT for his next cycle, and pointed him to this thread and to the board sponsor for PCT.

Thanks guys.

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## nsa

I would go to the workout section for the routine while on cycle.

When i say it will close your growth plates i mean: you have epiphyseal plates in your bones and when you get an accumulation of estrogen in your endocrine system your epiphyseal (growth) plates close and you don't grow anymore. So as long as you use nolvadex to make sure you don't have estrogen building up during and after the cycle you'll be fine.

He's not going to die or anything, but im pretty certain his testosterone levels are pretty low right now, he's probably lethargic and losing his gains.

----------


## Bleche

Alright, NSA, I was just curious after looking over your profile a little background info on you that I haven't seen. It says you, in Jan, were 125 lbs. You gained 60 pounds in 6 months? That's pretty impressive impressive. I was wondering if this was from using M1T, how many cycles it took you, what type of training do you do, etc? Why if you were working out for 7 years were you not bigger than 125, were you just not eating enough or what? If it's in another thread let me know and I will look for the info. Thanks for the response about the trib btw! Next cycle I will use 4AD.

FYI: I am in no way being sarcastic with my questions, I am completely serious in asking them... out of curiosity. I don't want it to sound like anything I said was in disbelief or sarcastic.

----------


## nsa

Its a very long story, but i'll try to sum it up in a short post.

I started training with weights when i was a freshman in high school, had to do it for ootball and track. By the time i left high school and went to college i was 170, in college i continued to lift and i got up to 185 by the end of the summer of 2003. Last october i was involved in a fight outside of my freaternity house in which about 40 people from another fraternity and the wrestling team wanted to get into a private party we where having. (I have no recollection of the folloing events) From the reports i've heard i knocked out 2-3 people and was in the process of choking out another when a different kid came up to me and hit me in the face with a baseball bat, i was still choking the kid even after getting hit once, then the other kid decided to hit me 4 more times, even then i was still fighting but not very well and i was screaming inaudible sounds. So people called 911 and cops and ambulances came and me and my freind, who was also hit in the head with the bat, were rushed to the hospital and we both flatlined on the way to the hospital, luckily we were both recesitated back to life. My freind spent 3 weeks in a coma and i spent 2 months in a coma. Woke up and didn't have any idea what happened, just dealt with the cards i was handed. Then i went to a rehab hospital and went through alot of therapy(had to relearn how to talk, how to walk, how to swallow, and i had to learn how to urinate again without a catheter in me.) At this point im 5'8" and 120 pounds. So i started lifting again when i was allowed to go home and recover there. Light weights in my basement(dumbbells 10's to 50's.) Then went back to the gym in march i think and started working my way back to my normal weight and lifting heavy. That is when i started tinkering with ps products. Alot of my gains would have come without anything but some of the gains was from supplementation. And after about a year from when i got hurt i am back to my normal weight of 185 pounds and hoping to get to 200 pounds with the same BF% by the summer. You might have caught my story on the news or in the papers last year, it was allover the north east and people said it was nationally broadcast on cbs, nbc, fox, msnbc, cnn and telemundo(the spanish channel.) Or if you want to read more about it just search for "rutgers bat brawl" in any search engine.

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

Alright, the time has come. I had originally scheduled to start M1T this past monday right after Ranger Challenge, but it was very intense and the 10k ruck march killed my legs and shoulders so Im takin this week reel easy and startin M1T next mon. I have all components and plan to do this:

weeks 1-4
M1T 10mg ED (possible jump up to 15 late in cycle)
4derm 600mg ED
Hawthorn Berry extract 1695mg ED (565mg x 3 pills)
Letrozole .5-1mg EOD (to stop 4derm from aromatizing)

PCT weeks 5-8
Nolva 40mg ED two weeks 20mg ED two weeks
Clomid 300/100/50 standard issue
Milk Thistle 1000mg ED

I have a high calorie diet Ive been on all through Ranger training (35-4500 cals/day) But burning way more. My ex gf saw me the other nite and she said my abs were WAAAY better. Shes comin over to study in a bit, Ill continue this in the lounge if "need be." 

ANYWAY, my workout plan is solid as well. I get at least 3 days in and double up parts. It depends how busy my week is (usualy very) if can get 4 days or 5 at best and space everything out.

Anyone see any kinks? My only concern is dosage on Letro. Ive seen some bros go as high as 1.25mg but others say never that much. Thanks!

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

Holy $hit nsa, I had this thread minimized for a few hours and I come back and read your story!! Thats some fvcked up $hit there dude. At least you beat the $hit outta some of those fags first. Awsome recovery tho.

----------


## bradd5150

Sup fellas, just wanted to chime in cause im about to finish my 4 week nsa cycle. Gotta tell you I dont know why anyone wouldn't jump on this sh*t in a heartbeat. I've had no sides, great pumps, killer workouts that I have to make myself leave the gym, and I feel great. Only problem I had on maybe 2 occasions my kidneys hurt in the morning cause the day before I didn't drink enough water. I try to drink at least a gallon a day. But then I'm pissin every couple hours or more often. Started at 183lb and today i weighed in at 198.6 and I swear body fat hasn't gone up. Strength is way up. My opinion: dont hesitate to get on this stuff. If pct goes well, I'm gonna do another cycle in december or january. I did have one question: why not start clomid before your finished with your cycle? Maybe a week or a few days before your last day on cycle? Just a thought I had.

----------


## nsa

Thanks Soldier.

Bradd, Clomid works well, unless there is an exogenous androgenic hormone in your blood stream, then it doesn't do much at all

----------


## jmillerdls

Ok, I understand no alcohol during the m1t...
but what about the PCT? Ill be turning 21 about 1 week into the PCT...is this gonna be a possibilty, or am I going to have to fight some big ass time peer pressure

----------


## DevilsDeity

just dont get throw up drunk

----------


## Bleche

Wow, that's some seriously messed up stuff, I'm sorry to hear about that man. Perhaps I am blind, but I didn't notice you mentioning how many cycles of m1t (if any) you were on while you gained the weight back. Congratulations for recovering, you've got a pretty sweet physique going there!

Im having a hell of a time getting out of bed in the mornings. Is this considered lethargy? Like I said, I haven't been using the 4ad, do you think this is the problem... every year when the seasons change I either a) get sick or b) feel awful until I get used to the temp change. So I don't know if either are to blame. I feel fine during the day after I have woke up, if anything, I feel empowered and full of energy.

Any suggestions on when to start cutting down my bf? I'm about to end this cycle (wednesday of next week). I am 5'11 @ 181.5 (rising about 3/4 a pound per day so far on this M1T cycle) and I would estimate my bf to be 10%. I think I will end up at 185 or so by end of cycle and then I will be doing your PCT to try to keep the gains. I've only been training for about 7 months (definately a newbie trying to learn as much as I can)... should I keep bulking up or start cutting my fat down?

Also, this is the second cycle of M1T I have done, first cycle I only used M1T and then Novadex for PCT. I only gained like 6 lbs and lost 4 of it shortly thereafter. I wasn't eating enough. I started this cycle at 174, Im up to 181.5 as of today, trying to eat as much as I can (probably hitting 2500-3k calories a day and a gram/pound of protein per pound of weight). It's about impossible for me to gain weight it seems.

Any suggestions anybody has feel free to shoot them my way!

----------


## jmillerdls

nsa, what other supplements (if any) did you take during your cycles? Like, Multi V, B12, Creatine...anything??

----------


## nsa

i use b-12, multivitamins, creatine, ATW protein, clen , along with the sample cycle i posted.

----------


## nsa

> Wow, that's some seriously messed up stuff, I'm sorry to hear about that man. Perhaps I am blind, but I didn't notice you mentioning how many cycles of m1t (if any) you were on while you gained the weight back. Congratulations for recovering, you've got a pretty sweet physique going there!
> 
> Im having a hell of a time getting out of bed in the mornings. Is this considered lethargy? Like I said, I haven't been using the 4ad, do you think this is the problem... every year when the seasons change I either a) get sick or b) feel awful until I get used to the temp change. So I don't know if either are to blame. I feel fine during the day after I have woke up, if anything, I feel empowered and full of energy.
> 
> Any suggestions on when to start cutting down my bf? I'm about to end this cycle (wednesday of next week). I am 5'11 @ 181.5 (rising about 3/4 a pound per day so far on this M1T cycle) and I would estimate my bf to be 10%. I think I will end up at 185 or so by end of cycle and then I will be doing your PCT to try to keep the gains. I've only been training for about 7 months (definately a newbie trying to learn as much as I can)... should I keep bulking up or start cutting my fat down?
> 
> Also, this is the second cycle of M1T I have done, first cycle I only used M1T and then Novadex for PCT. I only gained like 6 lbs and lost 4 of it shortly thereafter. I wasn't eating enough. I started this cycle at 174, Im up to 181.5 as of today, trying to eat as much as I can (probably hitting 2500-3k calories a day and a gram/pound of protein per pound of weight). It's about impossible for me to gain weight it seems.
> 
> Any suggestions anybody has feel free to shoot them my way!



Eat more and keep bulking. Then cut after pct, that should get you bigger and more cut when all is said and done.

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

YAAAAAAAAAAYY!!! Steroid Control Act of 2004 passed! We have 90 days till our favorite legal steroid is illegal! Not that its exciting, it pretty well sucks. Wont stop me from doin it tho. My cycle is only 56 days long so it will still be legal when I finish.

----------


## rev911apollyon

What do you guys think about Legal Gears M1t and their transdermal 4-AD, they alos have their Formadrol, which is thier post cycle ****.

----------


## nsa

IMO the best value is getting underground labs m1t and dermabolics 4-derm...

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

> IMO the best value is getting underground labs m1t and dermabolics 4-derm...


Amen.

----------


## clockworks

If m1t doesn't aromatize into estrogen, why does it cause bloat?

I tend to rip up some while on tren /prop. If I add m1t to the end of a tren/prop cycle, will it increase or decrease the cuts I get?

Thanks for the info.

----------


## nsa

M1t itself doesn't cause the bloat, its the 4-ad aromatization that causes bloat. If your adding m1t to the end of a tren /prop cycle it will not change the cuts you have.

----------


## clockworks

> M1t itself doesn't cause the bloat, its the 4-ad aromatization that causes bloat. If your adding m1t to the end of a tren/prop cycle it will not change the cuts you have.


Cool, might want to edit the original FAQ then. Nit picky, I know, but it confused me enough to ask the question.




> The side effects reported by users of methyl 1-test are many and individual reactions vary considerably. The most commonly reported side effect is lethargy, which can range from mild to severe. Other common side effects include increased blood pressure, *bloating*, joint pains, cramps, mild headaches, insomnia, aggressiveness, and irritability.

----------


## DustinLati

i was at my local health food store today, where i buy my multi's and flax seed oil, so i decided to look for hawthorne berry extract and milk thistle.

I found "Hawthorne" and "Hawthorne Berries" (both were liquids, came in 1 oz jars, and i believe were $9.99)....is this the stuff im looking for, or the "extract" something completely different, because neither one said extract anywhere on the bottle

I also found milk thistle which was a liquid, and came in the same 1 oz jar and i believe was $9.99. Is this the right stuff?

Edit: I googled up HBE and MT, and pretty much everything i found came in capsules. Are capsules the most "efficient" or "most availabe-for-my-body" way to go?

Also, i know m1t is going to be illegal soon, is 4ad going to be as well?

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

My HBE and MT are both caps. I think theyre easier than liquid cuz you just pop em down. 

Yes, M1T and 4ad will both be illegal soon. Anything that has "andro" in the name is on the chopping block. But by the end of my first cycle they are still legal. hahaha F-You government.

----------


## jmillerdls

lol, same here...i finish my PCT Dec 25th...if i like the results, maybe i can quickly purchase some more before dooms day

----------


## nsa

My next cycle is going to be:

weeks 1-4: 20 mg of m1t ED
weeks 1-8: 100 mg of test prop EOD
weeks 1-8: 100 mg of 1-test cyp EOD
weeks 5-11: 50 mg of winstrol 
weeks 9-11: 12 sprays of 4-derm ED
weeks 1-12: .25 mg L-dex ED
weeks 12-15: Clomid (300-100-50) ED
weeks 12-15: 20 mg of nolvadex ED
weeks 1-15: 1 gram of milk thistle ED

----------


## Bryan2

I would bump up the 1 test cyp after the m1t is finished I am personally doing 600mg of it ew and fell I should bump it up to 800. Plus I would rethink the use of winny with out a break because that is 11 straight weeks on a methyl man that is just asking for problems bro. Throw in like 1.2 grams of N.A.C everyday if you do decide to do it and I would check your liver values at like week 6 or 7 just to make sure. Or search around for either some masteron which is pretty imposible to get or primo (best bet is to go with the vet grade stuff I think QV makes some now) because you can achieve the same effect without the liver risk. If you know how to homebrew you could even make some 5aa cyp.

----------


## nsa

Yeah, i've been thinking about that winstrol , im probably going to just use it for the last week or two instead. Im doing that whole cycle, minus the m1t and winny, until mid december. 

How long into the cycle are you? What do you think of the results from 1-test cyp?

----------


## nsa

I have access to a test prop/test phenylprop/masteron mix for a very reasonable price...

----------


## nsa

BTW, aside of the days of discomfort from the prop, i love prop/phenylprop. Kicked in within 2 days of first injection and gave me the best pump i've ever had in the gym.

----------


## DustinLati

Well, i just realized that New Years is going to happen during my PCT cycle, and you know what that means....

I was wondering if its ok to drink during PCT? (I know its off limits during the m1t cycle, but i only drink about once every month or two as it is...and im a college student haha)

----------


## DustinLati

also, this may not even be a logical question, but do PH's/steroids in anyway affect penis size (make it smaller) because i know it affects your nuts to some degree, so i just want to be sure.

----------


## bda55

Hi, I've been reading and researching quite a bit yet about PHs, but one thing I can't find clear information on is on how much and how long exactly to do PCT after cycles of different lengths and with different doses.
It's pretty obvious you'll need more PCT after a cycle of 20mg ED of M1T for 4 weeks than for 10mg for 3 weeks, I'm just wondering how much exactly.

According to the M1T faq it says for 4 weeks 10mg M1T ED -> 3 weeks nolva (40-40-20) and Clomid

I'm wondering what the use is of using 2 SERMS during PCT, I've read in different articles it's redundant. Anyone care to explain?

Say I'd only use Nolva for PCT (and milk thistle in case of M1T), how much and how long would u need for:

3 weeks 10mg M1T
4 weeks 10mg M1T (according to faq 40-40-20)
4 weeks 15mg M1T

4 weeks S1+ with 10 sprays ED (2 bottles)
6 weeks S1+ with 10 sprays ED (3 bottles)

Thx

----------


## nsa

> also, this may not even be a logical question, but do PH's/steroids in anyway affect penis size (make it smaller) because i know it affects your nuts to some degree, so i just want to be sure.


If ph/ps effect your penis size it would make it bigger because it is a muscle and gets engorged with blood during an erection. Your testes do shrink when your hpta is shut down.

----------


## nsa

> Hi, I've been reading and researching quite a bit yet about PHs, but one thing I can't find clear information on is on how much and how long exactly to do PCT after cycles of different lengths and with different doses.
> It's pretty obvious you'll need more PCT after a cycle of 20mg ED of M1T for 4 weeks than for 10mg for 3 weeks, I'm just wondering how much exactly.
> 
> According to the M1T faq it says for 4 weeks 10mg M1T ED -> 3 weeks nolva (40-40-20) and Clomid
> 
> I'm wondering what the use is of using 2 SERMS during PCT, I've read in different articles it's redundant. Anyone care to explain?
> 
> Say I'd only use Nolva for PCT (and milk thistle in case of M1T), how much and how long would u need for:
> 
> ...


That cycle is not set up well at all, it is way too long. M1t and s1+ start to lose there effectiveness in the 4th week and 6th week respectively. And it doesn't say to use nolvadex for 3 weeks, it says to use nolvadex for 4 weeks and clomid for 3 weeks. Clomid is used to increase your LH and FSH through negative feedback, which in turn increases your endogeneous testosterone production, thus restoring your hpta. Nolvadex is used to inhibit the effects of estrogen build from your cycle and to try and keep cortisol levels lower, it also slightly increases your production of endogeneous test.

----------


## bulldawg_28

> also, this may not even be a logical question, but do PH's/steroids in anyway affect penis size (make it smaller) because i know it affects your nuts to some degree, so i just want to be sure.


No, ph/AS won't make your penis smaller. If they did I dont think anyone would use them.  :EEK!:

----------


## DustinLati

> No, ph/AS won't make your penis smaller. If they did I dont think anyone would use them.


well, i had to ask, because ive seen porns that had bodybuilders in them (well, not necesarilly BBers, but definatly guys who obviosuly used PHs/AS for personal use) and they were pretty pathetic in that department....figured the PH/AS might have something to do with it.

Just to be sure...nobody who has used m1t has had any negative side effects in that department? right?

----------


## bulldawg_28

> well, i had to ask, because ive seen porns that had bodybuilders in them (well, not necesarilly BBers, but definatly guys who obviosuly used PHs/AS for personal use) and they were pretty pathetic in that department....figured the PH/AS might have something to do with it.
> 
> Just to be sure...nobody who has used m1t has had any negative side effects in that department? right?


The only thing I have heard is nut shrinkage in that department.

----------


## Bryan2

> Yeah, i've been thinking about that winstrol , im probably going to just use it for the last week or two instead. Im doing that whole cycle, minus the m1t and winny, until mid december. 
> 
> How long into the cycle are you? What do you think of the results from 1-test cyp?



I just started week 4 so the 1 test cyp is kicking in this week. I frontloaded with M1T and so far i am up 10 pounds but only 6 is lbm which sucks. I got sick and my diet and training sucked and I gained 4 pounds of fat last week. But All the weight gain so far i would atribute to the m1t. Still not sure wether im gonna go this whole week out or not with the m1t. Anyway i do have body composition changes. 

Side note GET THE MASTERON MIX!!! **** I wish i had access to that stuff its such a clean steroid ! good good results from it it will harden you up nicely and then you dont even have to run the winny.

----------


## bda55

I meant those cycles as indepent ones tho, not all consecutively like in the on/off/on/... way. It was just to have an idea of what doses/duration of PCT u need for these different cycles. And thx for clearing up the use of both Nolva/Clomid




> That cycle is not set up well at all, it is way too long. M1t and s1+ start to lose there effectiveness in the 4th week and 6th week respectively. And it doesn't say to use nolvadex for 3 weeks, it says to use nolvadex for 4 weeks and clomid for 3 weeks. Clomid is used to increase your LH and FSH through negative feedback, which in turn increases your endogeneous testosterone production, thus restoring your hpta. Nolvadex is used to inhibit the effects of estrogen build from your cycle and to try and keep cortisol levels lower, it also slightly increases your production of endogeneous test.

----------


## YoungGuns20

NSA or anyone with an opinion, I am in my 2nd week of PCT, Clomid, Nolva, Creatine, and getting ready for Clen , I ordered and was kinda scared to use it with school going on, I dont want to get the sideeffects espically with a lot to do at school. But now my question is, what supplements can I take to keep building while I wait to run another cycle?

----------


## DevilsDeity

sideeffects from what?
the clen ?

----------


## nsa

Young, Clen doesn't really have sides other than being jittery. 

Bryan, i think i will get the 100 mg prop/ 100 mg masteron per ml - 20 ml/vial, its $140 a vial.

----------


## Bryan2

You will be very pleased masteron acts just like winny and can be run for a lot longer it acts quickly provides strength and makes *ALMOST ALL*  of the gains you make on cycle very easily maintainable!

----------


## nsa

So its more like primo than winny???

----------


## Bryan2

well primo, winny and masteron are all dht derivitives. They are just methylated at different postions for slightly diferent effects. primo for it far end of the scale at being mild and winny being methylated at the 17th position for all of the compound to enter the body at once and be strong. Now masteron is a little stronger then primo and works slightly differently but along the same lines.

----------


## nsa

Bump...

----------


## dizzak

i know the liver toxicity risks with stacking 2 orals so please dont rag me on that, but i was wondering would it be effective to stack m1t with anavar ? i just had some onhand and thought i would throw it out there. thanks.

----------


## Bryan2

Probably wouldnt notice to much from the anavar at all the m1t is too powerful and will over trump the anavars effects. The anavar will still do its thing but you wont be able to notice anything from it physically!

Some orals are ok to stack in my opinion but NEVER anything with M1T that **** is poison in a bottle with the side effect of muscle growth. Anyone take blood tests after a cycle? Only reason people take it is because it even topped all of the hype with results.

----------


## nsa

I would not stack anything with drol, m1t or methyl-d. Those are among the most hepatoxic of the orals that i know of. Things that wouldn't be too bad to stack together are things like winstrol and var or other compounds that are not that harsh on the liver.

----------


## dizzak

maybe i should think of running the var during pct?

----------


## nsa

> maybe i should think of running the var during pct?


Var during pct? Bridges don't work if they are aas based. Use creatine or something that doesn't suppress your hpta at all...

----------


## DustinLati

well im starting my stack tomorrow, so just to get a few things straight.
1. I take 5mg of m1t in the morining with 200mg of 4ad, and then the same dose 12 hours later, correct? 

2. Should i take each dose with a meal or on a empty stomach?

Sorry if the questions have already been answered, ive read the whole 13 pages but cant remember everything

----------


## DustinLati

well im starting my stack tomorrow, so just to get a few things straight.
1. I take 5mg of m1t in the morining with 200mg of 4ad, and then the same dose 12 hours later, correct? 

2. Should i take each dose with a meal or on a empty stomach?

Sorry if the questions have already been answered, ive read the whole 13 pages but cant remember everything

----------


## nsa

1. Correct.
2. With a meal is best.

----------


## bda55

What do you do when you're only taking 5mg of M1T and 200mg 4AD for the first few days of a cycle to start out safely? That would be 5 sprays and only 1 pill, say you would take this for the first few days, should you split those up too, and how exactly?

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

Why not go w/ 10mg? It wont do much of anything at such a low dose.

----------


## nsa

IMO there is no need to work your way up to the desired dose, its not like clen or anything like that. M1t is effective at 10 mg ED and 4-ad is effective around 200-600 mg ED transdermally. I don't advocate going lower than 10 mg ED of M1t or going over 10 mg of M1t. I don't think either doesn't much more by way of hepatoxicity or gains than 10 mg's...

----------


## Bryan2

Hey Nsa update on my 1 test cyp useage

Its the start of week 6 and they cyps are kicking in full force last week is when they peaked for me and this week is even better. I think (at least hope) that the cyps will give me around a 2 pound gain a week. It does work slower than M1T but no hepatoxicity to speak of. And Im not feeling fully on cycle with 1 test i think it counters some of that on feeling you get with test.

----------


## nsa

What are the doses your running at this point? I remember you saying you were consistently increasing the doses.

----------


## Bryan2

im at 800mgs 1 test a week and 2100mgs of 4ad cyp.

I like the 1 test at this doseage a lot better than just 600mgs.

No lethargy at all either with the 1 test cyp.

----------


## nsa

Thats alot of sauce to put in you...

----------


## Bryan2

Yeah im only using 4 different spots also.

3 ccs in each thigh
3 ccs one soulder (alternate each work)
2ccs other shoulder

----------


## jkarcs055

wat do u guys think of gaspari nutricion. i Just ended my first week of thier m1t. And just had a few quesitons about thier no*ve*dex and clo*mex*  and how to use both. NAd if they are the same as as *clomid* and *nolvadex*

----------


## bulldawg_28

> wat do u guys think of gaspari nutricion. i Just ended my first week of thier m1t. And just had a few quesitons about thier no*ve*dex and clo*mex*  and how to use both. NAd if they are the same as as *clomid* and *nolvadex*


They aren't the same bro. They wont restore your hpta as well as clomid and nolvadex will.

----------


## nsa

They immitate nolvadex and clomid, but don't work nearly as well.

Get the good stuff...

----------


## FamLay

if you cant get any nolva or clomid you can get 6-oxo for pct bad man

----------


## nsa

6-oxo or 7-oxo or tribulus won't cut it for pct.

Everyone can get nolvadex and clomid. Click the banner on the top right corner of every page...

----------


## peachy

> 6-oxo or 7-oxo or tribulus won't cut it for pct.
> 
> Everyone can get nolvadex and clomid. Click the banner on the top right corner of every page...


not so easy if you are in the uk, and dont want to give your goodies to the customs man.. things are pretty tight around the us now.

if any one can help on that front then let me know, otherwise its 6-oxo for me. (and crossed fingers, although it looks like im lumbered with oral 4ad anyway which is alledgedly less potent)

this wa sthe best i could manage, although ive noticed i can get my hands on the transdermal 4ad, so am trying to have my order amended.
will let you know how i get on with the pct as is.. also have tribulus knocking around here somewhere.

was planning a 4 week cycle, 196pounds 6'3" very low bodyfat. play a lot of hoops though so schedule will have to allow for at least 3 x 2 hour sessions a week of balling, hopefully that wont screw with any gains too badly...

Legal Gear Methyl 4AD+
Underground Labs Methyl 1 Test
Reflex Milk Thistle (90 Caps)
Ergopharm 6 OXO

----------


## nsa

I wouldn't even do a cycle if i didn't have proper pct ancillaries. Considering most still lose some muscle mass with correct pct, due to diet and training or lack there of. You will lose most of the gains you make from the actually cycle.

----------


## peachy

hence im still at the planning stage, in the meantime jsut been on the phone to supplier who has kindly upgraded my order to the transdermal, and thrown in a bunch of stuff ( imade quite a large order to cover a few potential cycles ) (anyone else in the uk i would be happy to receommend discount supplements)..

reason i was asking as im reading a lot of 6-oxo wont do comments, but no alternatives being given for us poor sods in the uk. 
will obviously hold off actually runnig a cycle until everything is in place, although everyone over here seems to think 6-oxo is fine.. so im getting conflicting reports, as im well aware that the opinion on this board differs... I will however be erring on the side of caution, and not proceeding until everyone is happy with my choice =]

forgot to mention its the Legal Gear LGP 4-AD+ transdermal which is supposed to help prevent aromatisation.

----------


## nsa

> hence im still at the planning stage, in the meantime jsut been on the phone to supplier who has kindly upgraded my order to the transdermal, and thrown in a bunch of stuff ( imade quite a large order to cover a few potential cycles ) (anyone else in the uk i would be happy to receommend discount supplements)..
> 
> reason i was asking as im reading a lot of 6-oxo wont do comments, but no alternatives being given for us poor sods in the uk. 
> will obviously hold off actually runnig a cycle until everything is in place, although everyone over here seems to think 6-oxo is fine.. so im getting conflicting reports, as im well aware that the opinion on this board differs... I will however be erring on the side of caution, and not proceeding until everyone is happy with my choice =]
> 
> forgot to mention its the Legal Gear LGP 4-AD+ transdermal which is supposed to help prevent aromatisation.


Legal Gear LGP 4-AD+ transdermal will not help prevent aromatization, as it should be the only compound in an m1t/4-ad stack that could possibly aromatize to estrogen.

----------


## nsa

And i know people who have ordered pct ancillaries from internet sites, like the one on the top of the page here, and have not had their order seized by customs. I know people from both the US and UK...

----------


## peachy

well im going to have to rely on that, as am completely unable to source any here..

still hunting..

----------


## peachy

its also rather a lot cheaper than the 90 quid (us equivalent 180$) ive just spent on 6-oxo =]

----------


## DustinLati

I know NSA said not to take ECA while on this stack, but what about ripped fuel? Is it an ECA, or would it be ok to take (2 pills before a workout for added engery)?

----------


## nsa

> I know NSA said not to take ECA while on this stack, but what about ripped fuel? Is it an ECA, or would it be ok to take (2 pills before a workout for added engery)?


You can take ECA or another fat burner while on M1T but i wouldn't do m1t while trying to cut carbs. You need to keep your carb intake up to help with the lethargy, as m1t effects your blood-sugar levels along with the normal lethargy from lower testosterone levels . Also you will want to monitor your BP while on any kind of stimulant while using m1t.

Main point: It is ok to take something to increase energy while on m1t, while monitoring BP. And don't try to cut while using m1t, as it is a bulking steroid and doesn't fair well with decreased carb intake.

----------


## peachy

right have found a source it seems @ the following prices:

Clomid (Clomiphene citrate) 10 x 50mg Tabs Price: £ 10.00  15.00
Nolvadex -D ( Tamoxifen ) 30 x 20mg tabs Price: £ 35.00  52.50

too much?
also why nolva + chlomid if they essentially do the same thing, (i consider myself pre-flamed for asking that =])

and should i really have hcg to hand as well?

----------


## Syndicate

If you were to search you would find:

http://forums.steroid.com/search.php?searchid=1163406

Then you would click on:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...hlight=pheedno

----------


## Darkness

Is the 1fast400 still the best M1T? I did it over the summer and gained 22lbs and lost 7 on PCT, but now I wanna jump back into it and would like to know if those $10 bottles are what I should get, I know there are places that sell'em for $50-$100 but its basically the same crap right?

Thanks  :Strong Smiley:

----------


## WISHMASTER

Ok guys dont flame me for asking....and I know that you will probably tell me that what I did was bad but the damage if any has already been done.

I stay on my cycle of M1T for 7 weeks along with all the other supps that I take and followed NSA's cycle including the trib and all. My nads didnt shrink down any futher than when I did a cycle of S1+ a while back. I credit that to the trib. I maxed out on my weight at 22lbs and I dont look like Im carrying alot of water but Im sure some of it is. 

I started my PCT lastnight and I have a question. Seeing that I did 7 weeks does the dosage change? I front loaded my clomid with 300ml... and did 40ml. of nolva. Should I take the Clomid past the 21 days? 

ALso I take both my clomi and nolva at night almost before bed. Is that Ok or should I take during the day?

thanks guys! and remember no bashing me...LOL!

----------


## kingspade213

why wont 6 OXO be effective for a pct? (looks at NSA)

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

This has been said on here several times. Simply because 6oxo sucks. 

Darkness--yeah, get your M1T from 1fast400. All M1T is the same and the ppl who are charging $100 for it are just milking the impending ban. I have enough supplies for another cycle of M1T before going to the dark side. But wait...when I do my second M1T it will be legally be considered the dark side. I am already crossed over and dont know it. 

Anyway, I just started PCT today and I gained a solid 10lbs of muscle, considerable size and density gains, and strength is through the roof compared to before. Im trying to hook up a digital camera for pics.

----------


## Darkness

Cool, thanks. Now I need a new source for my clo/nol cause my last research place doesnt sell it anymore...shame cause it was cheap and the liquid kind!  :Frown:

----------


## WISHMASTER

any idea?

----------


## WISHMASTER

ok thanks!....LOL

----------


## peachy

and to double check, going to check wether the advertiser on this site will deliver to uk, 

so im after 
Clomi 70mL 35mg/mL [assuming this is chlomid?]
Tamox 50 ML 20mg/ml [assuming this is the correct nolvadex ?]

and these are oral not intravenous presumably, wasn't expecting liquids.

----------


## wired-up

> and these are oral not intravenous presumably, wasn't expecting liquids.


yes they are oral and yes it's clomid and nolva.

----------


## DustinLati

does anybody know whats wrong with i b e l a b s . n e t? I ordered my PCT from them 3 weeks ago, and it never showed. Now their website doesnt work

----------


## syncere

PCT top right corner.

----------


## Tbol

I am on my 9th day of m1t at 20mg per day and I REALLY do not like the side effects.
I am tired,my mood is not good,my libido is gone and I feel and look fatter than ever. I weight 260 and I am 6'2

I would say at least 30 pounds of fat on my body. I also have been getting little twinges under my right rib cage (where the liver is)
so I am thinking about just quitting. I have read what everyone here says about clomid and nova for pct.

I have spent 10 hours researching this stuff. I already bought a bottle of 60 pills of 60x0 or 3,16,17, androstentrione with 5,7 Chrysin 

my question is since money is tight and I already got burned for $ 50 bucks for the 6oxo would it work in terms of getting my system back to normal since I have been on this less then two weeks. I really hate the idea of getting clomid when I will never take this stuff again  :Don't know:  

all replies appreciated

----------


## Syndicate

Your health should be priceless.

-Syn

----------


## Red Monster

20mg a day is double dose... unwise. You could try cutting the dose down to 10mg at the very least plus 1000mg of Milk Thistle. You have both your liver and your nuts to worry about.

----------


## Nevergoodenough

Should m1t and trans 4Ad be applied before or after the workout?

----------


## peachy

have started a diary of my first cycle which updates every single day, should prove an interesting insight to anyone considering starting a cycle for the first time.
i also invite comments from more experienced users.

its here:
http://forums.anabolicreview.com/sho...d.php?t=136435

----------


## Red Monster

I followed the FAQ to the letter and went from 166.6 to 180.6 in 30 days.

----------


## nsa

> I followed the FAQ to the letter and went from 166.6 to 180.6 in 30 days.


Good job. That sample cycle is what i did my first few cycles with m1t, so it is sure to put muscle mass on you and if you do pct correctly you should maintain almost all of the muscle.

----------


## kingspade213

nsa im 5-8 150pds and am going on a the cycle of m1t you recomend. my questions are how many calories, carbs and grams of protien should i be consuming each day? and also would it be to my advantage to stack 1ad with the cycle you wrote up?

----------


## mikeh9046

nsa, im not sure if your familar with the anaboics equa bolin and test 250 (both pill form). i am going on the cycle of m1t. i have a cycle of equi bolin nd test 250 can i stack. or when is the best time to take these if i want to go on m1t first

----------


## nsa

You don't add anything really powerful to the stack by adding 1-ad to it. And go to the diet forum and read the bulking sticky for the diet advice. Im not going to be around here much til around christmas, i have many finals and lab practicals in the next 2 weeks.

----------


## void

I will take 10mg of M1T + Legal Gear LGP 4-AD+ (Transdermal) for 4 weeks.
I have 22 years old, 155lb, 8% BF.
I want to take 4Derm, but I have access only to these 2 products.

---
Legal Gear LGP 4-AD+ - Facts:
Serving Size: 2 mL 
Servings Per Container: 120
Amount Per Serving:
17a-Methyl-4-Androstene-3, 17b-diol 4.2mg 
4-Androstene-4, 17b-ol-3-one 25mg
4-Androstene-3, 17b-diol 50mg
---

I know there is 2 methylated compounds in this stack..

My questions is:
- What LGP 4-AD+ dosage is a good one? (I want to keep my liver ok.. and I dont want 4AD aromatization)

Thanks!

----------


## DustinLati

ok, i know a lot of people have mentioned that you will feel like $hit while on this cycle, and i just wanted to see if anyone has experienced:

Headaches
Constant nausea
Loss of appetite - Everything i eat, i feel like im going to puke up as well (especially chicken and brown rice)

Im 2 weeks in, and until a couple of days ago I was fine, but now these 3 side effects have made me want to quit my cycle....im not going to of course, but i want to.

So, has anybody else experienced this? Anything i can do about it besides B-12 and goodys?

----------


## Syndicate

Man up!

J/K, eat alot of carbs to balance your glucose levels. They are low and thats what makes you tired n feel like crap.

----------


## nsa

> ok, i know a lot of people have mentioned that you will feel like $hit while on this cycle, and i just wanted to see if anyone has experienced:
> 
> Headaches
> Constant nausea
> Loss of appetite - Everything i eat, i feel like im going to puke up as well (especially chicken and brown rice)
> 
> Im 2 weeks in, and until a couple of days ago I was fine, but now these 3 side effects have made me want to quit my cycle....im not going to of course, but i want to.
> 
> So, has anybody else experienced this? Anything i can do about it besides B-12 and goodys?


Hawthorne berry extract for headaches, Increase your carb intake and injectable b-12 for appetite.

----------


## jpjedd

Nas I copied your cycle+PCT in your orginal post and plan to copy it. This is first cycle was planing to do a sus+deca cycle with Anavar in the last 3 weeks.

But decided to try this first.

Could I do the Anavar with the 4AD+m1t ? 

Best to do at the start or at the end as I only have enough of 3 weeks?

----------


## nsa

two methyl's at once is not good

----------


## Nino99GT

quick question... starting pct tomorrow (40 mg ed nolva for 14 days then down to 20 for last 7 days ,and clomid 300 mg first day down to 100 mg/10 days then 50mg last 10 days) Should i take these doses of clomid and nolva all at once or split them up thoughout the day?

----------


## DustinLati

> Hawthorne berry extract for headaches, Increase your carb intake and injectable b-12 for appetite.


Im already taking HBE, but the headaches went away anyway
Carbs are already 350-400g ED
injectable b12? like with a syringe? no thanks, ill just find some in a pill

----------


## bulldawg_28

The pills are no good dude. Injecting b12 is cake bro. Even my gf wants to try it.

----------


## nsa

> Im already taking HBE, but the headaches went away anyway
> Carbs are already 350-400g ED
> injectable b12? like with a syringe? no thanks, ill just find some in a pill


Injecting b-12 is ridiculously easy, people actually learn how to inject properly (with b-12) before they move on to AAS. Its not like its prop or suspension, its b-12. People cut painful gear with it, that alone clearly points towards it being painless. BTW, the pills don't do sh!t, they get chewed up by your GI tract. You would have to take a ridiculous amount of pills ED to even get slight benefits from it. And injectable b-12 is dirt cheap.

----------


## nsa

15 pages of good info (should)= Sticky

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

If you havnt checked my cycle journal, Im in PCT right now and keeping gains. I was about 173 when I started w/ very low BF% and got up to around 183 w/ no noticeable fat gains. I havnt been able to get any pics but I should be able to get some next week. Several people said I have very noticeable size gains and my strength went through the roof. I couldnt bench 225 for one before and now I can do it 3x. Deadlift is prolly around 400 as well. I have been only slightly lethargic a cupple days, also it was from lack of sleep w/ finals studyin. I had some pains in my lower back/kidney area so I upped my water intake and milk thistle from 1000mg to 2000 and it went away. Strength is keeping up as well. Next cycle I do I have enough M1T for 10mg ED for 19 days and left overs for 15mg for the last 9 days. Also tons of 4derm so well see how that goes next sem or summer.

----------


## nsa

> If you havnt checked my cycle journal, Im in PCT right now and keeping gains. I was about 173 when I started w/ very low BF% and got up to around 183 w/ no noticeable fat gains. I havnt been able to get any pics but I should be able to get some next week. Several people said I have very noticeable size gains and my strength went through the roof. I couldnt bench 225 for one before and now I can do it 3x. Deadlift is prolly around 400 as well. I have been only slightly lethargic a cupple days, also it was from lack of sleep w/ finals studyin. I had some pains in my lower back/kidney area so I upped my water intake and milk thistle from 1000mg to 2000 and it went away. Strength is keeping up as well. Next cycle I do I have enough M1T for 10mg ED for 19 days and left overs for 15mg for the last 9 days. Also tons of 4derm so well see how that goes next sem or summer.



I hear you on the finals messing up your cycle, i know they have had a profound impact on my current cycle. Also, i know when i was making awesome gains i wasn't able to notice because i would look at my self and pose in the mirror at least once or twice a day. It the people who see you every few weeks, like college students who go home to see there parents every few weeks. I know i have to wear long sleeve shirts and hoodies when i go home after starting a cycle, then slowly decrease the amount of clothes i wear so its not that obvious to them.

----------


## FLHRCI

Cycle stack M1T and MethylD... the Methyl-D is supposed to balance some of the M1T sides. I was told this would be a good cycle together, 2 weeks on, then 2 weeks Nolvadex , then repeat 2 on 2 off.

Please offer your feedback if you have some valid knowledge of the subject.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, I tried to search and could not find another post where someone stacked M1T and Methyl-D.

Prior to this I have done a cycle of Animal Test followed by Aniumal Stack. Then repeat a month later. Also tried Animal M-Stack and Stack-2.

Here are my stats:
gender: Male
age : almost 45
height: 6"1"
weight: 241#
BF: 22.5%
time training: 1 year (lost about 30# fat and gained 25# muscle)
Flat Bench : 300# x 2 or 275# x 4 
Dead lift: 405# x 2 or 315# x 6
Squat: 500# x 2 or 405# x 6
leg Press: 1500# x 5

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

> I hear you on the finals messing up your cycle, i know they have had a profound impact on my current cycle. Also, i know when i was making awesome gains i wasn't able to notice because i would look at my self and pose in the mirror at least once or twice a day. It the people who see you every few weeks, like college students who go home to see there parents every few weeks. I know i have to wear long sleeve shirts and hoodies when i go home after starting a cycle, then slowly decrease the amount of clothes i wear so its not that obvious to them.



ahahahahahhaha, I pose in anything that I can catch a reflection, silver ware, doorknobs, watchfaces... My mom was like, "what the hell did you do to yourself??" at skanksgiving break from the M1T. I was just like, well I have been eating more, and doing more PT.

----------


## Marc Angelo

I have been away from the forum, I just heard that M1t is out of the market or it will be out pretty soon, is that true?

----------


## Marc Angelo

I have been away from the forum, I just heard that M1t is out of the market or it will be out pretty soon, is that true?

----------


## Bryan2

as of jan 21st all phs will be made illegal aas and have the same penalties for possesion

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

Is it about $10,000 and 3 years in prison?? Ive never looked into it but would think its severe cuz the govt goes psycho w/ this stuff.

----------


## nsa

> Cycle stack M1T and MethylD... the Methyl-D is supposed to balance some of the M1T sides. I was told this would be a good cycle together, 2 weeks on, then 2 weeks Nolvadex , then repeat 2 on 2 off.
> 
> Please offer your feedback if you have some valid knowledge of the subject.
> 
> Sorry if this is a dumb question, I tried to search and could not find another post where someone stacked M1T and Methyl-D.
> 
> Prior to this I have done a cycle of Animal Test followed by Aniumal Stack. Then repeat a month later. Also tried Animal M-Stack and Stack-2.
> 
> Here are my stats:
> ...


Not a good cycle at all IMO, the reason you can't find anything on that combo is because it is a bad combo. Those 2 are the most hepatoxic of the legal orals. And methyl-d won't counteract the lethargy and loss of libido from m1t, you need testosterone or some precursor to testosterone(i.e. 4-ad)

----------


## syncere

how much size the strength did you retain after pct?

----------


## wired-up

> how much size the strength did you retain after pct?


i retained all 10lbs that i had gained and all strength.

----------


## userabuser

> as of jan 21st all phs will be made illegal aas and have the same penalties for possesion


Where might I find more info on this. Reckon I'd better start ordering stuff..  :Smilie:

----------


## FLHRCI

> Not a good cycle at all IMO, the reason you can't find anything on that combo is because it is a bad combo. Those 2 are the most hepatoxic of the legal orals. And methyl-d won't counteract the lethargy and loss of libido from m1t, you need testosterone or some precursor to testosterone(i.e. 4-ad)


Thanks... I just found that out from a different source. I think I will change if to MoneT plus 4AD plus Nevedex(end/off cycle).

----------


## peachy

just popping in again to ask if anyone else has experienced quite strong tinitus on this stack, not btoday but the last two days its been very pronounced in one ear.. (i know its quite a common side effect on some drugs) im also hitting some painkillers for an injury, so it could be either/or tbh.

----------


## nsa

> just popping in again to ask if anyone else has experienced quite strong tinitus on this stack, not btoday but the last two days its been very pronounced in one ear.. (i know its quite a common side effect on some drugs) im also hitting some painkillers for an injury, so it could be either/or tbh.


Its called Tinnitus, I personally have never had any problems with it, and i haven't heard of anyone else having a problem with it, but my suggestion would be to use hawthorne berry extract or if you are already, increase the dose. 

This a semi-serious medical condition though, so i would go get it checked out by a doctor and tell him everything your using, they can't tell anyone what you tell them about your personal coniditions, i.e. doctor-patient confidentiality. *Tinnitus may also be a symptom of more serious illnesses such as high blood pressure, anxiety/depression, diabetes, thyroid disorders, Ménière's disease, blood vessel disorders, or tumors.*

----------


## peachy

as soon as i posted it went anyway, such is life, but should it return ill take your advice cheers!

----------


## DustinLati

QUICK NEED HELP WITH AR-R PCT ORDER!!!

im getting ready to checkout with my tamox/clomi PCT order from the board sponsor, but i keep getting these certificate warnings/domain name conflicts saying www.byub12.com may be trying to intercept my confidential information. Is this normal? Ive never gotten these warnings when ive ordered from other sites

Is there a number i can call?

PS. I tried ordering from i b e and my order never showed

----------


## Marc Angelo

hank you for the info on ph, this is a sad story for America, too much "religiosity" involved in polotics, not good.

----------


## Syndicate

NSA ; do you or anyone for that manner, know what M1T's halflife is? I was curious if taking the full dose in one sitting would be just as effective as spacing the doses. I know about the blood levels maybe being more stable or whatnot yet does anyone truely know or just repeating info they read somewhere else?

----------


## ValeTudoFighter

I have a question on the PCT, for the Clomid Therapy is says "300 mg of clomid first day, 100 mg of clomid next 10 days, 50 mg of clomid for final 10 days of clomid therapy." That is three weeks, should I wait a week before I start taking it? I thought I read that you should wait a bit before starting the PCT but is it just the clomid or all PCT. Thanks for any info.

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

> I have a question on the PCT, for the Clomid Therapy is says "300 mg of clomid first day, 100 mg of clomid next 10 days, 50 mg of clomid for final 10 days of clomid therapy." That is three weeks, should I wait a week before I start taking it? I thought I read that you should wait a bit before starting the PCT but is it just the clomid or all PCT. Thanks for any info.


Start PCT the day after you stop M1T. The waiting you heard about is for dudes who use injectabels and must wait 2 weeks after thier last shot. If you wait you will see an estrogen rebound and thats bad mmmk. That is correct, clomid lasts only 3 weeks and nolva is 4.

----------


## DevilsDeity

> NSA ; do you or anyone for that manner, know what M1T's halflife is? I was curious if taking the full dose in one sitting would be just as effective as spacing the doses. I know about the blood levels maybe being more stable or whatnot yet does anyone truely know or just repeating info they read somewhere else?


i think its around 12 hours thats y you do 5in the am and 5 in the pm

----------


## nsa

Half-life for oral methyl compounds is usually 6-8 hours.

Don't wait at all for pct. Day after last oral taken. Waiting to start pct is for people using esterified injectables, in which case each ester has a different half-life.

----------


## Marc Angelo

I guess my brain is dead or I am becoming a Moron, but I am serious about not knowing what to do with all this stuff:

I have M1t, Androdiol Select 300 (4 androstendiol, is that 4-ad?) Omifin (Clomid 50 mg 30 pills), 10mg-100 pills of Tamoxifeno (Nolva???) Liquid t-3 and Liquid Clen 30ml 200mcg/ml. also have Milk Thistle. What do I need next and what should my cycle look like? I am very strong and I have a high tolerance to meds (I have also done 2 cycles of deca and test 10 yearsw ago so my body knows. I have never break out or anything. My hair is also full (no bolding). I am 5'7", 200 ponds, probably 20% bf, 17" biceps, big chest (forgot the measurements, big back) and "big belly" (I 'm working on that). 41.8 years old. Just started a cycle of pure creating (precission). Work out 5 times a week one body part a day, 5-6 different exercises- 4 sets each with 8-10 reps (depending on the body part I force myself to lift as heavy as I can. Taking MSM and glucosamine 1,500ml a day, plus my vitamins, etc).

Any help will be greatly appreciate it.

----------


## FLHRCI

> Its called Tinnitus, I personally have never had any problems with it, and i haven't heard of anyone else having a problem with it, but my suggestion would be to use hawthorne berry extract or if you are already, increase the dose. 
> 
> This a semi-serious medical condition though, so i would go get it checked out by a doctor and tell him everything your using, they can't tell anyone what you tell them about your personal coniditions, i.e. doctor-patient confidentiality. *Tinnitus may also be a symptom of more serious illnesses such as high blood pressure, anxiety/depression, diabetes, thyroid disorders, Ménière's disease, blood vessel disorders, or tumors.*


It can also be caused by too much loud music.... see this article from WebMD.com....http://my.webmd.com/content/article/48/39169.htm . It could be something simple or something serious.

----------


## DustinLati

well im 3.5 weeks through my m1t 4ad cycle, and i just have to say WOW, and THANKS for everybody, especially NSA. If it werent for this thread i never would have even considered m1t, or any PH for that matter.

I went from:
162 lbs to 180 lbs with probably the same bodyfat
70lb dumbells on flat bench to 100s 5 times
115lb military press to 135 (could have gone heavier though, but form would have suffered)
I deadlifted 315 for 6

My mom and girlfriend both asked if i was on steroids , and a friend of mine (who was unaware of me taking m1t) jokingly said, in response to my lack of appetite, "Steroids will do that to you".

I just hope these size and stregnth gains stick

----------


## rymasm

well, i've spent the last 3 hours reading through all the previous posts. i wnat to do the cycle nsa described in the 1st post. i have purchased a bottle of Higher Power's M1T and may be able to get the hawthorne berry extract & milk thistle from the local nutrition store. 

any help on where to get the clomid and nolvadex ? please pm

i'm 6" 1' 172-175 lbs. my goal is to be 190 in 9 weeks. hopefully this cycle will help.

----------


## nsa

> well, i've spent the last 3 hours reading through all the previous posts. i wnat to do the cycle nsa described in the 1st post. i have purchased a bottle of Higher Power's M1T and may be able to get the hawthorne berry extract & milk thistle from the local nutrition store. 
> 
> any help on where to get the clomid and nolvadex ? please pm
> 
> i'm 6" 1' 172-175 lbs. my goal is to be 190 in 9 weeks. hopefully this cycle will help.


The banner at the top of the page...

----------


## max2extreme

If I have 10mg M1T's....and I planned on taking 10mg ed. Can I take it once a day? or is it a lot better to take 2x a day?

----------


## Bryan2

It is always best to split up the doses to make sure blood plasma levels are consitent through out the day.

Plus 10mgs at once will bring more lethargy.

----------


## Saleensrule

For the sample M1T cycle from NSA how much clen would be used during PCT and should letro be added to either the cycle or PCT if so how much? thanks

----------


## max2extreme

I cant take just one pill a day? I probably shouldn't take (2) 10 mg pills Im assuming? (6'1, 190lbs, age 27) If it IS ok for me to take 1 pill a day, would an hour before workout be best? Would it be ok to take (2) 10mg pills? Or did I waste my money and need to buy 5mg pills?

Thanks for your help all..

----------


## max2extreme

I cant take just one pill a day? I probably shouldn't take (2) 10 mg pills Im assuming? (6'1, 190lbs, age 27) If it IS ok for me to take 1 pill a day, would an hour before workout be best? Would it be ok to take (2) 10mg pills? Or did I waste my money and need to buy 5mg pills?

Thanks for your help all..

----------


## WISHMASTER

3 weeks into PCT and I have only lost 5 pounds. ....so I figure thats about all Im going to lose. Gonna do an other cycle at the end of Jan. to carry me into the summer months. and then cut and see where Im at.

----------


## rymasm

> I get liquid nolvadex for 50 mg/1 ml 50 ml for 20$ and clomid 50 mg/1 ml 50 ml for 20$ and clen for 200 mcg/ml 50 ml 35$ of clen. The nolvadex and clomid are better than what i get the pills for and the clen is not even close to the price i would pay for that much clen in pills.


help please. checked out ar-r .com $45 each for clomid & nolvadex . saving $25 on each bottle would help me out alot especially around this time of year. is what you get for $20 oral or injectable? is there another place besides ar-r where i can spend less?

----------


## RedKnight

> I cant take just one pill a day? I probably shouldn't take (2) 10 mg pills Im assuming? (6'1, 190lbs, age 27) If it IS ok for me to take 1 pill a day, would an hour before workout be best? Would it be ok to take (2) 10mg pills? Or did I waste my money and need to buy 5mg pills?
> 
> Thanks for your help all..


Just cut the 10mg pill in half. Take half in the morning and half at night.

----------


## max2extreme

They are capsules if I remember right...you think I can just separate the capsule and take half of it??

----------


## RedKnight

Capsules change things a bit. You can buy your own empty caps, but that is a pain in the a$$. Honestly, I would just buy some Underground Labs. At only 10 bucks a bottle it would save you a lot of time. And 1 bottle should be good for your whole cycle.

----------


## ash146

guys i need some help ... i've already done a prohormone cycle with S1+ with good results however i'm feeling to go with m1t this time around. I've read NSA sample cycle but how much should i be taking? i'm 5'7, 163, have been lifting serioulsy now for 5 years. diet wise, ive worked with SC so his swoledup diet is working wonders i just want to push the envelope some more.

----------


## Farhan

I live and canada and i can get my hands on some m1t
My question is what do i have to take it with?
I have Creatine and Tribex 500 at home
I can get milk thistle and Clomid
How should i cycle it, what should i take with my cycle and how much of it?
I read some of the topics about m1t however im still not too familiar with this
thanx

----------


## nsa

> I live and canada and i can get my hands on some m1t
> My question is what do i have to take it with?
> I have Creatine and Tribex 500 at home
> I can get milk thistle and Clomid
> How should i cycle it, what should i take with my cycle and how much of it?
> I read some of the topics about m1t however im still not too familiar with this
> thanx


Read the original post...

----------


## nsa

> guys i need some help ... i've already done a prohormone cycle with S1+ with good results however i'm feeling to go with m1t this time around. I've read NSA sample cycle but how much should i be taking? i'm 5'7, 163, have been lifting serioulsy now for 5 years. diet wise, ive worked with SC so his swoledup diet is working wonders i just want to push the envelope some more.


10 mg's each day is all you need.

----------


## ash146

i'm on ar-r .com ... i see "clomi" listed for 45. is that oral or injectable? also where on the site should i bee seeing nolva?

----------


## Farhan

> Read the original post...


i did, however i said i am limited to supplements since i live in canada therefore i listed what i have and am asking how i should cycle it

----------


## nsa

You need some sort of testosterone or pre-cursor to testosterone. If you can't get that than i wouldn't do m1t.

----------


## ash146

dude i live in canada as well. you have to look extra hard for it. you can always try these research sites however the only thing you'll have ot do is cross your fingers when it comes to customs.

----------


## Farhan

isent tribex 500 good enough for testosterone ?

----------


## ash146

should i be looking tamox for my answer?

----------


## nsa

> isent tribex 500 good enough for testosterone?


No, its not. Thats not testosterone , its tribulus terrestris and aveena sativa.

----------


## ash146

> isent tribex 500 good enough for testosterone?


nope. it's good for the sex drive and can raise your testosterone but not at the levels you could be with m1t

----------


## Farhan

soo your saying take it with 4 ad?
how about 1 ad?

----------


## nsa

> should i be looking tamox for my answer?


Thats nolvadex . You need nolvadex and clomid for pct. Clomid = Clomiphene citrate.

----------


## nsa

> soo your saying take it with 4 ad?
> how about 1 ad?


1-ad is not a pre-cursor to testosterone . 1-ad converts to 1-test.

----------


## Saleensrule

I'm going to be taking this sample cycle of M1t:

Weeks 1-4: 10 mg ED of M1t
Weeks 1-4: 400 mg ED of transdermal 4-ad
Weeks 1-4: 1500 mg ED of hawthorne berry extract

PCT:
Weeks 5-8: 40 mg ED of Nolvadex for the first two weeks, Then down to 20 mg ED of Nolvadex
Weeks 5-8: Clomid Therapy, 300 mg of clomid first day, 100 mg of clomid next 10 days, 50 mg of clomid for final 10 days of clomid therapy.
Weeks 5-8: Milk Thistle 1000 mg of milk thistle ED

My first question is should I be using letro also either during the cycle or for PCT? If so how much and how long?

Second question if I wanna use clen during my PCT how much of the liquid should I take and how long ?

Thanks in advance for any help

----------


## ash146

sweet. thanks NSA!!!

----------


## ash146

hmmm nsa, i'm how much of each tamox and clomi should i get for one cycle? i'm think one each?

----------


## nsa

> hmmm nsa, i'm how much of each tamox and clomi should i get for one cycle? i'm think one each?


Just add up the mg's for all the days of pct and thats how much you will need for each.

----------


## nsa

> I'm going to be taking this sample cycle of M1t:
> 
> Weeks 1-4: 10 mg ED of M1t
> Weeks 1-4: 400 mg ED of transdermal 4-ad
> Weeks 1-4: 1500 mg ED of hawthorne berry extract
> 
> PCT:
> Weeks 5-8: 40 mg ED of Nolvadex for the first two weeks, Then down to 20 mg ED of Nolvadex
> Weeks 5-8: Clomid Therapy, 300 mg of clomid first day, 100 mg of clomid next 10 days, 50 mg of clomid for final 10 days of clomid therapy.
> ...


Letro is a good idea if your very prone to gyno, its not absolutely neccessary for this cycle though. The chances of getting a case of gyno from 4-ad is not likely.

Most people do fine with starting around 20-40 mcg ED, then work their way up to a dose (around 120-140 mcg) that doesn't cause undesired sides.(i.e. shaking)

----------


## Saleensrule

ok thanks, but what about clen how much and how often during pct to get ripped

----------


## ash146

thanks NSA.... the ones on ar-r , that is the clomi and tamxon, are those oral or injectables? the only reason i ask is that doesnt look like a syringe in the pic and there each one of clomi and tamxon has a their own flavor. I've always thought of orals = pills.

----------


## RedKnight

> thanks NSA.... the ones on ar-r, that is the clomi and tamxon, are those oral or injectables? the only reason i ask is that doesnt look like a syringe in the pic and there each one of clomi and tamxon has a their own flavor. I've always thought of orals = pills.



They are orals, not injectibles.

----------


## flexin-rph

I'm on my 3rd M1T cycle & I know for sure this feeling of bloatedness is from the M1t...
anyone else get this? I sometimes feel like I could explode!

----------


## nsa

> I'm on my 3rd M1T cycle & I know for sure this feeling of bloatedness is from the M1t...
> anyone else get this? I sometimes feel like I could explode!


You need to elaborate on the "feeling". If you 'feel like you could explode' when lifting, its just the pumps from m1t and not bloat. If your that concerned about bloat, then run some letro or another AI during the cycle.

----------


## flexin-rph

> You need to elaborate on the "feeling". If you 'feel like you could explode' when lifting, its just the pumps from m1t and not bloat. If your that concerned about bloat, then run some letro or another AI during the cycle.


OK, let me re-phrase that. My "bloat" that I am referring to is in my stomach.
I am running nolva 20mg qd...you think letro would be better?

----------


## nsa

Nolvadex is an anti-estrogen, letrozol is an aromitase-inhibitor. So an AI would be more effective at curing the estrogen caused bloat, seeing as how it actually inhibits the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. Nolvadex simply binds to the estrogen so they can't bind to estrogen receptors to become active.

----------


## peachy

well im onto the third week, and despite taking low doses as reported in my diary thread, (which granted is a few days behind), 
ive noticed a tenderness in the nipples today (although no lumps or other swelling), and the centre part seems a little more extended than normal, i may be being paranoid but think its best to crack into the nolvadex , howevever shoulod i keep to the remaining week of the cycle or stop immediately, 
i have read elsewhere that stopping the cycle may actually help make things worst...
so do the remaining week whilst started the nolvadex, or just full stop and into full pct?
again its probably nothing, but best be safe, and im not seeing much in the way of gains anyway =]

----------


## peachy

may just of been cold, centre bit seems normal now =] and not so tender

the thought of growing t+ts sure does put you on tenderhooks though doesnt it, will check back in the morning.

----------


## nsa

I would just start using nolvadex now, continue the cycle and use nolvadex. Also it could be from progesterone instead of nolvadex.

----------


## rymasm

thanks to nsa and everyone else that have put some really good info on this thread. Just waiting for my 4derm to get here from ordering it yesterday. i'm gonna start the 8 week cycle from the original post on Monday. i'll keep ya'll updated on how it's going. i am looking for some injectable b12 though because i want my appetite to stay strong. any help please? here's some before pics....hopefully this works...if not i'll try to upload them somewhere else

----------


## ash146

i got my 4-derm, dermabolics but i had issues with my order. Anyhow i'm still waiting on my PCT to come in. I finished a cycle of s1+ and gained 6lbs which i kept so I have to wait before I go and run m1t.

----------


## DustinLati

Alright, ill be done with my m1t cycle tonight and will take ym first dose of PCT in the morning (I gained ~15 pounds and i love it). Few questions (sorry if they have already been answered)

1. Do i take PCT doses all at once or split them in half and take them 12 hours apart?
2. Im definatly running this again, can i begin my next cycle as soon as I finish PCT or would that be a bad idea for whatever reason?
3. While im on PCT should I keep my calories way up (4,000) like i did while on m1t, or bring them back down to normal bulking level (3,500)?

----------


## rymasm

dustin, what did your diet look like for your cycle? lots of chicken, beef, potatoes??? what'd you eat for 4,000 calories?

----------


## nsa

> Alright, ill be done with my m1t cycle tonight and will take ym first dose of PCT in the morning (I gained ~15 pounds and i love it). Few questions (sorry if they have already been answered)
> 
> 1. Do i take PCT doses all at once or split them in half and take them 12 hours apart?
> 2. Im definatly running this again, can i begin my next cycle as soon as I finish PCT or would that be a bad idea for whatever reason?
> 3. While im on PCT should I keep my calories way up (4,000) like i did while on m1t, or bring them back down to normal bulking level (3,500)?


1. Split it up. You should split up everything you take all the time if you can.
2. Wait a while, give your receptors and hpta time to get back to normal.
3. Keep calories high.

----------


## birtcheh

has anyone heard/ tried max m-1-t plus?

----------


## FLHRCI

How effective is the 4AD, really? Is it true that its only in your system for 2 hours (see this link http://bodybuilding.com/store/4andro.html ).

Also, about PCT... do I need to wait till the 14th day to start my Novedex... seems like it might be beneficial to start it earlier....?

This is the dosage I am taking on my first cycle of M1T:
10mg M1T 2x/day
500mg Tribulus 4x/day
250mg Milk Thistle 1x/day
150mg Hawthorne 1x/day
Animal Pak: 1pack 2x/day

Starting weight 240# 12/16
Day 7 weight: 247.5# 12/22
Age: 45

----------


## ash146

> Alright, ill be done with my m1t cycle tonight and will take ym first dose of PCT in the morning (I gained ~15 pounds and i love it). Few questions (sorry if they have already been answered)
> 
> 1. Do i take PCT doses all at once or split them in half and take them 12 hours apart?
> 2. Im definatly running this again, can i begin my next cycle as soon as I finish PCT or would that be a bad idea for whatever reason?
> 3. While im on PCT should I keep my calories way up (4,000) like i did while on m1t, or bring them back down to normal bulking level (3,500)?



How much do you weigh now???? did u take b12?

----------


## nsa

4-ad is very effective. The amount of time 4-ad is in your system depends on the transport system, sustained-transdermal delivery is the best method IMO. Read the initial post on this thread and you will see a much better way to run this stack.

----------


## ash146

nsa .... time off between a cycle ... does one want to have the same time off as they were on a cycle? So if i did s1+ for a month, pct for a month ... i'd want about month and half off for everything to recover right?

----------


## nsa

Generally, Time off = Time on. That doesn't mean doing PCT for that whole time. PCT length depends on the cycle.

----------


## ash146

right ... so i ran s1+ for 4 weeks and ran a pct for equal time. I want to do m1t, aside from waiting for my pct to arrive, i should wait a few weeks for my recptors and hpta to fully recover?

----------


## nsa

Your HPTA will recover within a month from m1t, your receptors will take a little longer but benadryl can help with that.

----------


## ash146

benadryl? really? I only take that stuff whenever i breakout in hives! I hear you on that. I guess what I should be stating is that how long should i wait before doing m1t? I mean i just wrapped up doing s1+ and the pct for it.

----------


## nsa

When you feel ready. It all depends on you. If you take the proper precautions you'll be fine and should have good results.

----------


## boondockSAINT

NSA, 

Thanks for the FAQ. I just have to questions:

1) What type of milk thistle did you run?
2) Did you get the Hawthorne Berry Extract online?

If you can post any links, or send pm's, I would appreciate it greatly. Thanks.

----------


## nsa

I don't have PM's enabled so i'll post it here.

I ordered from puritans pride for milk thistle extract and got my hawthorne extract from a local vitamin store.

----------


## kingspade213

if i ran 10 mg of mqt the first week, 15 mg week 2-4, and then did 2 extra weeks of 20 mg, what should my pct look like?

----------


## boondockSAINT

> if i ran 10 mg of mqt the first week, 15 mg week 2-4, and then did 2 extra weeks of 20 mg, what should my pct look like?


I know my post count puts me as a newbie but I have been researching for a while. It is not recommended to go past 4 weeks (some recommend only 3). By the way, what is your height and weight? If this is your first cycle I don't think you'll be needing 20mg of M1T a day. What you want to use in weeks 5-6 would be enough for another 4 week cycle at 10mg ED, and that would be much safer and much more beneficial in my opinion.

----------


## nsa

> if i ran 10 mg of mqt the first week, 15 mg week 2-4, and then did 2 extra weeks of 20 mg, what should my pct look like?


Why would you do that?

----------


## kingspade213

im 6 foot 2 and i weigh 195, the first 2 weeks of my cycle i didnt really think i got all i could out of the m1t and 4ad (not going hard enough/long enough). What are the disadvantages of running the cycle for two extra weeks, what about 5 weeks?

----------


## nsa

For those stats, just run the cycle in the sample cycle from the original post. No need to go over 10 mg's for someone under 200 pounds, especially not at your height. M1t starts to lose its effectiveness during the fourth week.

----------


## yellows2k

Can someone PM a reliable Nolvadex and Clomid site. I cant commit myself to some of these sites due to so many scams. Of course, I will be using these for research purposes.

----------


## nsa

http://www.anabolicreview-research.com/

----------


## SMYL_GR8

No one mentioned AR-R 's M1T. Since I'm going to get PCT from AR-R, shouldn't I just get the M1T from there as well? I had good results with their Cialis and Finasteride.

BTW, thanks for this thread nsa, I was going to start a Test E/DBol cycle this month and now I think I've changed my mind.

----------


## nsa

> BTW, thanks for this thread nsa, I was going to start a Test E/DBol cycle this month and now I think I've changed my mind.


You will definately gain more from a dbol /test e cycle...

----------


## Beat

i have one question.. when people mention getting blood work while on a cycle, does that mean only blood pressure or other more sophisticated doctor stuff?

----------


## Bryan2

Blood drwn to check liver enzyme levels,cholesterol levels,hormone levels etc

----------


## nsa

> i have one question.. when people mention getting blood work while on a cycle, does that mean only blood pressure or other more sophisticated doctor stuff?


Blood work can mean any kind of test in which you get blood drawn.

----------


## Beat

thanks guys!

----------


## SMYL_GR8

> You will definately gain more from a dbol/test e cycle...


No doubt, but now I'm 6'2" 190 8%BF and looking to go to 210 at 6%BF. My thinking is that I could do this with one test E/dBol cycle (12 weeks plus PCT) or 2 M1T (4 weeks plus PCT X 2) cycles and invest much less time on gear (and save the sticks). What do you think?

----------


## nsa

I dunno either way your going to be using 12 weeks til your cycles are over. But i think you will go past 210 with the test e / dbol cycle.

----------


## Beat

does anyone know if M1T will be illegal to consume after the 21st Jan if you bought the stuff before that date? if its ok to use it if you bought it before the 21st jan

----------


## Beat

one more question lol
this is for everyone that has been on that sample cycle or similar cycles... does the lethargy effect your regular life in a big way? i know the lethargy varies from mild to severe, so if anyone has had severe lethargy, does it make you completely weird?
also, has anyone experienced any other side that has fecked your normal life up in any way?

----------


## Syndicate

Yes it will be illegal to use after, yet not possess as long as you can prove you had it prior to the ban. Lethargy, doesnt make you "weird' so to speak. You are tired... Like as in you worked a 12 hour day tired for no reason.

----------


## Bryan2

NO it will be illegal to possess after jan 20th

lethargy varies from person to person.

----------


## nsa

Its gonna be the same as gear thats illegal already, same reprecussions as if you get caught with a bunch of test or deca now...

----------


## dullard

ok first of all ignore my stupidity ive f+cked up, first 5 days of pct ive taken 1/10th dose exactly of your suggested pct for nolva and clomid, (hadnt noticed the mils on the side of the syringes were in .12345 insterad of 12345) dumb.
have tried to fix by taking the first days proper full dose today and starting back t square one with the right dose..

how much damage have i done? have no sides other than have been very down with no libido. figures as ive been messing up without knowing it.

----------


## Syndicate

> NO it will be illegal to possess after jan 20th


Usually after a new law is enacted, their is a grandfather clause. Thats what I'm running off of on my statement.

----------


## ValeTudoFighter

I have a PCT question, I have posted it in a couple of places but no replys. If I am going about this the wrong way or if this info is already on the board please let me know. I have been searching but have not found an answer or one that I comletely understand anway. Thanks


I will be doing an M1T/4AD cycle in about a month or so and I have a couple questions on PCT. I already have the Underground Labs M1T, 4Derm, Hawthorn Berry Extract and Milk Thistle and I just need the Nolvadex and Clomid.

If I get it from AR-R should I be getting Clomi 70mL 35mg/mL and Tamox 50 ML 20mg/ml? The other question I had was about dosages, I think the dosages are a little different then this thread has listed. What dose would it be in ml and how many doses per bottle for each of these suppliments.

Thanks for any info.

----------


## Syndicate

search for Pheednos PCT

----------


## gpupp

nsa:
where do you get your nova and clomid that cheap? please pm me..

----------


## wayn225

midget408- I have only been lifting for a yr. and I went from 174 to 202 and lowered bf. NSA is definetely right. Whey protein, eat right, and stay in the gym. Dedication will reward you with more that 20lbs of muscle gain.

----------


## nsa

> nsa:
> where do you get your nova and clomid that cheap? please pm me..


Get it from my personal source. BTW, i don't have PM's active because when it was i got flooded with PM's everyday. There are others who are more knowledgable than me for info, like pheedno, doc m, macro...

----------


## jsimon

I HAVE USED 1-TU, AND m1T and im 18 i only did both once am i ok

----------


## wired-up

no, you're going to die a slow painful death next week!  :LOL:

----------


## nsa

> I HAVE USED 1-TU, AND m1T and im 18 i only did both once am i ok


Your not going to die or anything like that from using that stuff. But depending on what else you used you may have close your epiphyseal (growth) plates.

----------


## void

I am planning to run a 2 weeks 10mg M1T ED and Methyl 4AD.

1. What do you think about 2 weeks cycle?
2. How about a PCT for a 2 weeks cycle? Is it really necessary?

I have 8% BF, 158lb, 1.80m, 3 years training, 23 years old.

----------


## nsa

2 weeks cycles are too short IMO to see good results, your HPTA is pretty much shutdown after day 4 but the m1t doesn't really kick in fully until around day 7-8, so your only getting about a full week of the experience with alot of the sides. And yes pct would be necessary for 2 weeks. Try running 2 weeks without pct and you will regret it for sure. Just run it for 4 weeks and use transdermal 4-ad. For best results run the sample cycle in the first post of this thread. It has been tested and modified based on the results. Alot of people have good results from that cycle.

----------


## max2extreme

> http://www.anabolicreview-research.com/


Ive looked here for clomid/novladex and I typed it in the search and got no results. Is there something else I should search on??

Thanks,

Max

----------


## wired-up

> Ive looked here for clomid/novladex and I typed it in the search and got no results. Is there something else I should search on??
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Max


clomid:
http://www.anabolicreview-research.c...products_id=41
nolva:
http://www.anabolicreview-research.c...products_id=43

----------


## sgn

> I get liquid nolvadex for 50 mg/1 ml 50 ml for 20$ and clomid 50 mg/1 ml 50 ml for 20$ and clen for 200 mcg/ml 50 ml 35$ of clen. The nolvadex and clomid are better than what i get the pills for and the clen is not even close to the price i would pay for that much clen in pills.


nsa, would you mind sending me a pm of where you get clomid and nolva from at these prices? I got my m1t and 4ad powder which I'm going to throw in the penetrate carrier when I get all my supplies together for your sample cycle.

For those interested, I'm 22years old at 204lbs 14%bf and have been lifting for 4 years. I'm also a long time lurker of this forum and a first time poster.

----------


## peachy

Im having PCT problems after 4weeks on a fairly mild m1t+4ad stack
[full details of my gains can now be found in my diary thread]

has anyone else experienced what I have described here with this pct? Im extremely moody miserable/irritable/lethargic, and have absolutely ZERO "just stay the hell away from me" libido. [not even morning wood!]
needs to be resolved has started causing problems, my balls returned in style on the first day of PCT, they look good, but sure aint doing much, so why is the rest of mne quite so destroyed? =].

im about 9 days into my pct.

PCT:
Weeks 5-8: 40 mg ED of Nolvadex for the first two weeks, Then down to 20 mg ED of Nolvadex
Weeks 5-8: Clomid Therapy, 300 mg of clomid first day, 100 mg of clomid next 10 days, 50 mg of clomid for final 10 days of clomid

is it worth necking the 6oxo i also have here to see if that brings me back to life? (along with/not instead of the chlomid/nolva)

----------


## Bryan2

It should take the entire pct your balls are coming back thats a good sign but if you want to help your libido get some tribulus and dose at 5grams ed

Ive heard that 1-2 grams of longjack powder is even stronger for libido so try stacking.

----------


## peachy

cheers, forgot to add already that im using tribulus and zma with them already.. still nada

----------


## ash146

quick question on the stack ... i know taking any ECA stack is not advised due to the blood pressure issues, however how about a cup of coffee or two in the morning? black of course but i suppose this is okay? i need a jolt of black java to get me in the morning.

----------


## Bryan2

whats the trib doseage?

try upping it or adding longjack

----------


## flexin-rph

Just finished my 3rd 4-week cycle...only gained 14 lbs this time & a whole lotta strength... I chalk a lot of that up to a much more consistent diet this time. But the problem is my shirts are getting really tight through the traps/shoulders/arms...

----------


## nsa

> Just finished my 3rd 4-week cycle...only gained 14 lbs this time & a whole lotta strength... I chalk a lot of that up to a much more consistent diet this time. But the problem is my shirts are getting really tight through the traps/shoulders/arms...


Doesn't sound like much of a problem to me...

What were your stats before you touched the compounds and now?

----------


## flexin-rph

I'll have to get my wife to do measurements tomorrow, but body weight went from 198 lbs to 212 lbs & gained 25 lbs on the bench press & 40 lbs on the deadlift. I would estimate approx 12-14% bodyfat ( I love the offseason). Arm size somewhere in the neighborhood of 17-1/2", 33" waist, & 28" thighs.

----------


## nsa

I thought you said it was your third cycle of it? What were your original stats (before any cycles) compared to now?

----------


## flexin-rph

My first cycle was back in June 2004. I weighed in at 191 lbs & 16-1/4" arms. I don't feel like I made any progress (not much anyway) in my 2nd cycle in September/October. This cycle (my 3rd) really rocked!

----------


## ash146

nsa ... coffee is harmless when taking m1t?

----------


## nsa

Generally harmless, unless you have blood pressure issues.

----------


## Darkness

I'm just finishing my 3rd cycle of M1T this time only [email protected] ed for 30 days, and gained about 8lbs on 3rd week...but I havent been eating right nor enough nor drinking enough water so thats the reason for the small increase....the first time I gained 20lbs and kept abuot 15!

----------


## DevilsDeity

bump

----------


## nsa

> I'm just finishing my 3rd cycle of M1T this time only [email protected] ed for 30 days, and gained about 8lbs on 3rd week...but I havent been eating right nor enough nor drinking enough water so thats the reason for the small increase....the first time I gained 20lbs and kept abuot 15!


Goes to show that without the proper building blocks of nutrition, you can take all the hormones you want and you won't gain nearly as much as you could have with proper nutrition.

----------


## Machin3

Sup Nsa,

Which company makes the best m1t....CAn you please post the name of it....I cant figure out which one to get theres a ton out there with different prices....

----------


## nsa

They are all the same thing, either it is methyl-1-test or not. Underground Labs manufacturers the best m1t product for the price IMO.

----------


## Machin3

there all out of the 9.99 ones so i might go ahead with the bigger bottles...

How many pills is an avf m1t cycle?

----------


## RedKnight

On average, 60 5mg M1T pills per cycle. This is if you plan on running 10 mgs/day.

----------


## Machin3

So 4 weeks straight on??

some say 2 on 2 off?

----------


## Machin3

Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 1 tablet
Servings per container: 60
Amount Per Serving
Methyl 1-Testosterone 10.5mg
17alpha methyl-17beta-hydroxy-andros (1-ene-3-one)
5-Androstenediol 50mg
(5-Androstene 3beta, 17beta diol)
20 Beta Hydroxyecdysone 50mg
Proprietary Amplifier Blend 100mg
Bergamottin, Bupleurum, Hoelen

Suggested Use:
Take one tablet in the morning and a second tablet after lunch. Do not exceed 2 tablets during a 24 hour period. Cycle 4 weeks on, 2 weeks off for a total of 2 bottles.

this already has 10,5 mg of m1t in it should i just take 1 tab a day?????

----------


## Natural1

how long will one bottle of 4derm last will it finish a 4 week cycle of m1t at 400mg/day. How many sprays is 400mg?

----------


## THA GONZ

there are thirty(30) 200mg servings per bottle of 4derm
5 spays= 200mg so 10 spays = 400mg 
so 1 bottle @ 400mg ED will last 15 days.

----------


## Natural1

> there are thirty(30) 200mg servings per bottle of 4derm
> 5 spays= 200mg so 10 spays = 400mg 
> so 1 bottle @ 400mg ED will last 15 days.


thanks man

----------


## swoll4589

I have everything for my cycle. m-1t and legal gear 4ad derm. milk thissle and clomid and novla should be in monday. Queston though i plan on taking 4 pumps a day do i need to take a small dose of novla during the cycle. Such as 10-20 mg.

----------


## Machin3

whered you get clom and nolva im having trouble obtaining a source or anything along those lines

----------


## swoll4589

Anabolic Review-Research.com banner at top of the website.

----------


## Machin3

yea i prefer tabs they only sell liquid not sure how to use it correctly

----------


## swoll4589

measure it out with a ml dropper and take it or add it to a drink.

----------


## nsa

Use a syringe...

----------


## Machin3

I prefer tabs as opposed to liquid mainly because if anyone in my house finds it big big trouble

----------


## unclemoney

So are you living at home? What's their to worry about? Just tell them for the clomid "its a natural test booster"...

and then for the nolvadex tell them "it helps get rid of excess water in fat cell's and naturaly boosts test" even though me and you know that normaly main reason for nolva in the anti e is to block or get rid of a recent case of gyno or restoring your test production... Trust me I've usein those excuses on my gf without having to get into a bit of detail

----------


## nsa

I've used those excuses on my parents and it worked... But seriously you won't find a place to purchase tabs over the net, not legally at least. These compounds are illegal in pill form. You have to deal with the labs, just switch the bottles or take the labels off. Your parents are not going to freak out about something that looks like a travel sized bottle of shampoo.

----------


## FireFall26

I have a few questions, I've never done this product and I am going to do it shortly. All those products you listed....hawhtorne, nolvadex , clomid therapy, etc..Are they all necessary? They added up to a lot of money, but if it is what I need then I can get it. For the cycle, how many weeks do I take the actual m-1t. I got the pill form, so. If a 17 yr older were to take this, would it be ok? I think he's done growing.
Do i take the pills everyday, or once a week?

----------


## wired-up

yes they are all neccessary or you won't have a liver or sex drive after your done. if you can't afford everything for the whole cycle, you don't need to do it cause all you're going to do is hurt yourself and waste your money.

----------


## FireFall26

I can afford it......I don't know exactly which form of these products to get..Also, when on this product can you drink alcohol? Thanks

----------


## wired-up

i wouldn't if you want to have a liver left in 20 years or so. also, alcohol kills test levels which you're basically defeting the purpose of taking the M1T. you might as well not take it at all.

----------


## FireFall26

No, I wanted to make sure so when I take it I DONT drink, duh

----------


## Machin3

> I've used those excuses on my parents and it worked... But seriously you won't find a place to purchase tabs over the net, not legally at least. These compounds are illegal in pill form. You have to deal with the labs, just switch the bottles or take the labels off. Your parents are not going to freak out about something that looks like a travel sized bottle of shampoo.



yea its just i dont like the whole idea of measuring things because im not familiarized with the process m1t will be my 1st real cycle iv ebeen working out for a good 7 months now so idk......I know a source that might get it for me but im not sure of its authenticity ...Should I post them when I get them for on eof you guys to give me the go ahead on them?

I dont see Nolva on the research chems...Whats the chemical scientific name for nolva?

----------


## wired-up

> I dont see Nolva on the research chems...Whats the chemical scientific name for nolva?


tamox

----------


## Machin3

does it come with a syringe you measure it up...Is it taken orally..Cause i hate injecting anything into me?

----------


## wired-up

> does it come with a syringe you measure it up...Is it taken orally..Cause i hate injecting anything into me?


it will come with an oral syringe for measuring. do not inject them. they are oral only.

----------


## swoll4589

I just got my novla/ clomid today but i only have one syringe. Can I use one syringe for both compounds if I just rinse it good before dipping into the other compound. Also do I need to split the dosages up in the day. ex 20mg novla/25 clomid twice a day or would it be just as good to just take 40mg of novla-morning/50 mg clomid-night.

----------


## Mr. Sparkle

It doesnt have to be sterile, or real clean for that matter. Dont worry about mixing them... its all good

----------


## wired-up

i just take them both in the morning

----------


## Machin3

does ar-r have nolva liquid form on there?

----------


## swoll4589

yeah they should unless there sold out. If they are they will get it back in stock. Post it in the Ar-r section. So i dont need to split my dosages throughout the day. Especially like day one with clomid-300mgs

----------


## wired-up

> does ar-r have nolva liquid form on there?


look 6 posts above yours. i already answered this.  :Don't know:

----------


## Machin3

oo i just wanted to know because i couldnt find tamoxxx

----------


## wired-up

it was there the other day. they must be sold out or not carrying it anymore. Tamoxifen Citrate is what you're looking for. you can get it here too (another "research" company):
http://www.pumpnpose.com/cgi-bin/net...ifen%20Citrate

----------


## swoll4589

> yeah they should unless there sold out. If they are they will get it back in stock. Post it in the Ar-r section. So i dont need to split my dosages throughout the day. Especially like day one with clomid-300mgs


could someone answer that

----------


## swoll4589

Yeah in the AR-R secition i think lion said they were sold out.

----------


## Machin3

whats the shelf life of m1t usually?

----------


## suzuki99

I dont think he was serious...

----------


## Bizzare_777

while supplementing with 20 mg's daily of m1t, what do you guys agree would be a safe and effective amount of.... Hawthorn berry extract, milk thistle, and zinc (chelated) to be? Ive, been using 1000 mg's of milk thistle, 1000 mg's hawthorn, 100 mg's of zinc, but im till interested in what you all would agree is safe and effective, while on cycle, Thx.

----------


## Machin3

> while supplementing with 20 mg's daily of m1t, what do you guys agree would be a safe and effective amount of.... Hawthorn berry extract, milk thistle, and zinc (chelated) to be? Ive, been using 1000 mg's of milk thistle, 1000 mg's hawthorn, 100 mg's of zinc, but im till interested in what you all would agree is safe and effective, while on cycle, Thx.


-

hmm i thought you use those as PCT on the 1st page it said to use them at weeks 5-8 for pct
hawthorne extraact
milk thistle
clom and nolva 


check out the 1st page if you already have not

----------


## RedKnight

> oo i just wanted to know because i couldnt find tamoxxx



AR-R has it back in stock now. Just a FYI

----------


## alias

Been following ur sample cycle for a week now except for one detail. Due to my phuck up, I just received my 4-ad. Would u recommend adding it now to my second week and prolong the 4-ad only for an additional week?

Also ...would like to add that this stuff works wonders. I am 6'1" @ 157 pds before I started my cycle. Now I am @ 168 with the only side effects being so far are just a headache. 

Thanks for the advice

alias

----------


## Machin3

im confused ...Do you use milk thistle and hawthorne berry extract while on it or only as the pct???

----------


## uttyler dude

you can use them both on cycle but mostly the milk thistle is saved for pct and HBE is used at around 1500mg ed while on your cycle

----------


## alias

ok ..... for the complete idiot... I got my bottle of 25 grams of 4-ad. Im supposed to take 400 mg a day...how do I measure this....it didnt come with any measuring tools .......


idiot needs help

alias

ok I think I figured this out... 1/4 tsp is 300 mg ... so would u take 1/8 tsp twice a day?

----------


## Machin3

why not get 4derm works better and easier to apply? 

Is it a personal preference to get powder over spray?

----------


## peachy

ok im into my thried week of PCT and im thinking about the next cycle, 
two things, 

I may be going around the world in 2 and a hlaf months, but id like to squeeze in another cycle before i leave, (as ill be without gym cycles etc for about a year, plenty of time to recvoer =]) 
question is I know you should leave a further 4 weeks to stabilise after PCT before starting another cycle, but can i cut that down to 2 or even less? I am feeling prety much back together now, and I will have a year off after this second cycle... but i need to have enough time for another cycle and another month of PCT beforee i leave, (cant see me getting on the plane with bottles of nolva and chlomid =]

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

Well, I just found 180 more M1T pills in my mailbox, coupled with the 65 I had left over from last time I will have lots to take in the next two days  :Wink/Grin:  I think Im gonna do 15-20-20-25mg per week for my second cycle then up it some more for the last one. I have 4 bottles of 4derm left.

----------


## DustinLati

NSA - do you have any more info about all m1t being the same quality/compound? Because the people who own my gym said that it wasnt true, and that they know people that have taken UGlabs m1t and didnt like it, but liked LegalGears and Gaspari's m1t. I also have a friend who liked his $50 m1t (dont remember the name) and i reocmmended UGlabs to him and he didnt like it nearly as much.

I did like UGlabs m1t, though it was the first time i used m1t so i dont have anything to compare it to, but i guess it could have been the 4ad that i liked so much, who knows.

I did buy some legal gear m1t, but the gelcaps are 10mg instead of 5....should I take 1 a day, or should i try to split them in half or something? I could take 10mgs twice a day, there are 80 caps in the bottle which would be enough for a 4 week cycle of 20mgs ED, but at 175 lbs i dont know if i want to go that high. What should I do?

----------


## saul50

wusup guys,im new to this roids stuff im not trying to make it a hassle on you pros.let me make it quick has anybody ever taken winni-v tabs from SDI-LABS and does it work?
Also anyone here from miami i might be intirested in some good legit juice.

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

> wusup guys,im new to this roids stuff im not trying to make it a hassle on you pros.let me make it quick has anybody ever taken winni-v tabs from SDI-LABS and does it work?
> Also anyone here from miami i might be intirested in some good legit juice.


WELL since this is the M1T faq for all questions M1T.....I would suggest posting this in the "Steroid Forum" as it is a steroid question other than M1T. Oh and source posting is not allowed on the board, no big deal.

----------


## bulldawg_28

> wusup guys,im new to this roids stuff im not trying to make it a hassle on you pros.let me make it quick has anybody ever taken winni-v tabs from SDI-LABS and does it work?
> Also anyone here from miami i might be intirested in some good legit juice.


Waste of money bro. If you looking for something with winstrol like effects look into methyl 5, or mdht.

----------


## Reelmuscle

Well, after al this talk about M1T, i am trying a cycle of it. Got some A.M.T M1T for CHEAP! Will be doing Nolva, Clomid, and Milk thistle for PCT and taking Hawthorne berry extract while on cycle. I am doing the recommended 10 mg ed for 4 wks, then starting pct weeks 5-8. Wish me luck, and I will keep you guys posted on what happens.

Oh, and just so you guys know i am not just some 130 pound guy that is clueless, here is a cold pic i took the other day. I am not asking to gain much, but 10 lbs and i will be satisified.

----------


## snowman_in_wa

I did buy some legal gear m1t, but the gelcaps are 10mg instead of 5....should I take 1 a day, or should i try to split them in half or something? I could take 10mgs twice a day, there are 80 caps in the bottle which would be enough for a 4 week cycle of 20mgs ED, but at 175 lbs i dont know if i want to go that high. What should I do?[/QUOTE]

I have the 10 mg capsules also. Just got them today.  :Dancing Banana:  This is my first ever cycle. Should I just take one capsule a day? Morning time the best?
I am going into the dr Monday and will be heavily sedated. To the point of being completely under. I assume I should hold off starting my cycle until the "procedure" is over and done with.  :Yellow Confused:  

Thanks to all who contributed to this post. I have learned a lot and realized I have a lot still to learn!

----------


## Reelmuscle

Is 4-AD a MUST when doing a M1T cycle with a dosage of 10 mg ED?

I know Lethargy is a common side effect, but will it have as bad of an effect on aperson if the dosage is only 10 mg ed? Thanks

----------


## Bizzare_777

Hey sno,,

Thats the same question i had about legal gears m1t @ 10 mg per cap. Im almost finished with a 5 week cycle and i started with 10 mgs daily. My plan was to do 10 mgs a day. I wasnt aware they would be 10 mg's per cap, so i ended up doing 20 mgs a day. I was told that the half life was 10 hrs or so, so i figured 1 cap a day wasnt gonna do it. My question still hasnt been answered tho. Anyways,,,i was really impressed with the gains i made of legal gears m1t and this was my 1st m1t cycle ever. To your other question about "are all m1t comounds the same" hmmm,,,idk,, i actually read someones post in the prohormone Forum, stating that legal gears was using the compound of m1t that wasnt already converted, or something like that. When you read the ingredient lable, youll notice. Either way,,it seemed to work for me, unless it was just the 4ad but oh well,,i gained and over all, i like the supplement. Good Luck!

----------


## snowman_in_wa

Ok, so since I have the 10 MG capsules, when is a good time to take one? I work out at 11 am and since the life is supposed to be 10 hours, I assume morning time is best to take a capsule?
If the side effects aren't too bad, when is a good time to up it to 20 MG a day? A week or so?

Thanks

----------


## Bizzare_777

Wait 3 to 5 days. Im staring pct today, i was using the legal gears m1t, i made some pretty ood gains  :Smilie: . One hell of an experience for me,, being that this was my 1st ime usin a pro hormone, im gonna have to get use to being sore again after work outs. By the way,,when i upped t 20 mg's i did notice some pretty bad leth. but after a while it seemed to wear off, ut then towards the end it came back and i even sarted to eperience some awefull stomach pains, but thats just in my experiene bro. have some melatonin reay and zinc as well,,cause at 20 mgs i got insomnia an used melatonin and also got the m1t flu,, but zinc was pretty good at combating that symptom. Good Luk!

----------


## Whitey

> Ok, so since I have the 10 MG capsules, when is a good time to take one? I work out at 11 am and since the life is supposed to be 10 hours, I assume morning time is best to take a capsule?
> If the side effects aren't too bad, when is a good time to up it to 20 MG a day? A week or so?
> 
> Thanks


Bro, wait for 7-10 days to experience the full effects of the M1T before you decide to up your doseage. I would not jump straight to 20mg. Why don't you buy a pill cutter or use a knife to cut a pill in half. I had 5mg pills, and I took 2 in the AM, and 1 before bed. Good luck.

----------


## Reelmuscle

> Is 4-AD a MUST when doing a M1T cycle with a dosage of 10 mg ED?
> 
> I know Lethargy is a common side effect, but will it have as bad of an effect on aperson if the dosage is only 10 mg ed? Thanks


anyone?

----------


## Whitey

> anyone?


That really depends, bro. I didn't experience the lethargy as much as some did, so I could have definitely gotten along without it. If you have it/can get it, i would run it. If not, do the cycle anyway. If you feel lethargy, you can use a low dose of stimulant, like an ECA to get you going a little before your workout.

----------


## FireFall26

My friend was wndering.....How necessary to the cycle are nolvadex and clomid....We are both starting our cycle, but he is kinda worried about having to inject something.

----------


## MASTER

since when do u inject nolva or clomid???!!!!

----------


## bulldawg_28

You dont inject nolva or clomid. They are taken orally.

----------


## nsa

Tamox and Clomiphene are taken orally. If you inject anything thats not sterile(non-sterile = anything not sealed with a rubber stopper to put a syringe through), chances are you will get either an injection site infection or an abscess at the injection site, both suck and both won't be easy to explain to a doctor, if you choose to hide what you were doing from the docter. Actually the doc would probably see right through it if you lied. Its always best to be upfront with doc's, you can't get in trouble for doing something and telling your doctor about it because of patient-physician confidentiality.

----------


## snowman_in_wa

Where can you get the transdermal 4-ad? Is it banned now? I accidentally ordered the capsules so I guess I will take those until I can get some transdermal.

I totally dig the sample cycle posted. I will follow it to a "T". Can someone also add what each of these does? For example, m-1-t - more energy, builds mass, lethargy... I guess what I am getting at is if I notice a certain side effect, I can refer back and up whatever necessary. That make sense or am I rambling? It is just brutal to cruise through this 20 page thread. :-)

I will be starting tomorrow so wish me luck.

snowman

----------


## Machin3

banned on jan 20th im sure you can get it on the black market or so

----------


## nsa

It says in the original post what each ingredient does. If you still have a question on what something does after reading the original post then ask it on the last page of the thread and someone will answer it.

----------


## Anteros

hey nsa is prohormone banned in canada too? if not, wheres a good place to order some? i really wanna do ur recommended cycle.

thanks

----------


## nsa

I don't think the ban effects canada, its a different country. I dunno where to get ph/ps/AAS anymore (gave up on anabolics a while ago, as im content with my physique as it is) let alone where they will ship to canada. Good luck in your search though.

----------


## Anteros

> I don't think the ban effects canada, its a different country. I dunno where to get ph/ps/AAS anymore (gave up on anabolics a while ago, as im content with my physique as it is) let alone where they will ship to canada. Good luck in your search though.


thanks, how nice to feel content...good job, enjoy  :Smilie:

----------


## Whitey

> My friend was wndering.....How necessary to the cycle are nolvadex and clomid....We are both starting our cycle, but he is kinda worried about having to inject something.


Quite a necessary precaution to avoid unwanted side effects and to keep gains post cycle. I'd advise to not even consider running a cycle w/o proper PCT. Fortunately, as you've learned by now, these compounds are orally active, and are not injected. Good luck.

----------


## swoll4589

man once again this post saved someone from doing something the would have regreted. Injecting orals lol.

----------


## Anteros

does anyone know where to buy m1t in canada, since its legal here there must be a place?...thanks

----------


## Whitey

> man once again this post saved someone from doing something the would have regreted. Injecting orals lol.


lol, probably wouldn't have felt real good either - that stuff is dissolved in PEG.  :LOL:

----------


## Bleche

Okay, I did a cycle without using either of these due to fear... ended up losing all but friggin 4 of the 12 lbs I gained. SO I'm going to go with this this time but I have a question as to the purpose, since that isn't overly specified in the beginning post and I didn't find it in any of the others. I went with 6oxo, maintained most of my gains for the time I took it but as soon as I ran out the weight started coming off.

Clomid causes a mass increase in estrogen levels, Tamoxifen causes the estrogen to have no affect on the body, but due to the increase in estrogen levels the endocrine system pumps natural testosterone into the system to try to balance the screwed up hormone levels. So, I'm thinking this is a jump start to make your body start producing test so you can keep your gains. If I'm right, all ya have to do is say so, if I'm totally con****ulated feel free to correct me. I'm just one of these newb people that needs to know...  :Hmmmm:

----------


## nsa

Actually it involves LH and FSH systems to restore endogeneous testosterone synthethis. But it is pretty complicated to explain in a single post.

----------


## Bleche

Okay, jumpstart natural test, good deal. You don't have to go into details...

Has anybody that has used either experienced any of the sides associated with either of these drugs?

Any suggestions on a weight gainer to use while on cycle? I'm aiming for NLarge 2...

----------


## nsa

I used both many times and personally never experienced any sides. But everyone is different, so what doesn't effect one person may cause serious health issues in others or can cause massive gains.

For the weight gainer i would make your own. Micellar caseine protein, maltodextrin and a multivitamin. That has worked extremely well for me in the past. Most manufactured weight gainers put on alot of fat and a little bit of muscle.

----------


## Anteros

> I used both many times and personally never experienced any sides. But everyone is different, so what doesn't effect one person may cause serious health issues in others or can cause massive gains.
> 
> For the weight gainer i would make your own. Micellar caseine protein, maltodextrin and a multivitamin. That has worked extremely well for me in the past. Most manufactured weight gainers put on alot of fat and a little bit of muscle.


very true...N-Large basically just gave me a belly that i had to work off...

----------


## Anteros

nsa, what could i take to substitute 4derm. I can get my hands on 4ad/1-ad caps, 100mg of each/cap. Or Andro spray. Would either of those be a valid substitute?

thanks

----------


## SwollSooner315

is it true M-1T loses it effectivness after each cycle?

----------


## SwollSooner315

if anyone could help me out i would appreciate it

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

Yeah, Ive heard it does. That goes for anything really. Your body will become accustomed to it, so upping the dosages slightly with each consecutive cycle is not a bad plan. 30mg ed is about the most you should go.

----------


## Reelmuscle

> That really depends, bro. I didn't experience the lethargy as much as some did, so I could have definitely gotten along without it. If you have it/can get it, i would run it. If not, do the cycle anyway. If you feel lethargy, you can use a low dose of stimulant, like an ECA to get you going a little before your workout.


Thanks man. I am gonna try without it, and if i feel lethargic, i will use a low dosage of a stimulant like you said. I dont think it should be too bad at 10 mg ed for 4 wks. Thanks again

----------


## SwollSooner315

ohhh ok....well i have 4 bottles of 180 count of M-1T and 8 bottles of 1-AD....soo maybe it would help if i did a cycle of m-1t then 1-ad, etc....i cant wait to start my first cycle of M-1T...I've used 1ad in the past and i gained 13lbs and kept most of it without any PCT....hopefully m-1t will live up to its name and i am going to use PCT for sure this time

----------


## Reelmuscle

Can M1T cause hairloss? I mean figuring M1T is a testosterone based supplement, i would think that it can.

----------


## nsa

Its not testosterone , that is just a name. 1-test is alot diferent from actual testosterone. Different formulas and different effects. If you want to try anything that causes problems with hair loss, then add finestride. Anything thay converts to dht can cause hairloss.

----------


## nsa

> Can M1T cause hairloss? I mean figuring M1T is a testosterone based supplement, i would think that it can.



DHT and its derivatives are the main drugs that cause hairloss. So if you stayaway from dht you should be alright.

----------


## Reelmuscle

OK, so does M1T convert to dht?? Maybe i missed what you were saying.

----------


## Anteros

hey nsa.

i cant get my hands on 4derm but found 4-ad/1-ad caps...100mg/each per capsule...i know 1ad is basically a less potent form of m1t...and read that 4ad will have to be administered throughout the day because its not transdermal...ill have to take the 4ad split up during the day to maintain bodily dosage ?!...but will the 1ad in there make that a bad idea? so basically is it okay to take the caps with the m1t and run ur cycle as shown?

or if i do a 4ad/1ad alone cycle instead, what would u recommend as a dosage for it and for the pct? id take all the other stuff the same as shown...

thanks  :Smilie:

----------


## nsa

> hey nsa.
> 
> i cant get my hands on 4derm but found 4-ad/1-ad caps...100mg/each per capsule...i know 1ad is basically a less potent form of m1t...and read that 4ad will have to be administered throughout the day because its not transdermal...ill have to take the 4ad split up during the day to maintain bodily dosage ?!...but will the 1ad in there make that a bad idea? so basically is it okay to take the caps with the m1t and run ur cycle as shown?
> 
> or if i do a 4ad/1ad alone cycle instead, what would u recommend as a dosage for it and for the pct? id take all the other stuff the same as shown...
> 
> thanks


1-AD and M1T are different in structure and effects. yeah if your using oral 4-ad your gonna need alot and throughout the day. Thats why transdermal is better. Yeah when things are oral they don't last long in your system. if thats all you can get i would say yeah. but i would try and get something like trans 4-ad or test depot.

----------


## Anteros

> 1-AD and M1T are different in structure and effects. yeah if your using oral 4-ad your gonna need alot and throughout the day. Thats why transdermal is better. Yeah when things are oral they don't last long in your system. if thats all you can get i would say yeah. but i would try and get something like trans 4-ad or test depot.


ok...itll obviously be harsher on my liver though, so upping the dosage of milk thistle and hawkthorne would be alright?

thanks

----------


## nsa

Nothing is really hepatoxic unless its methylated. So m1t would be the only thing i can see that could have liver enzyme issues, get some blood work done to check liver enzyme levels, and if you've never done it before i would have everything checked test (free & bound), liver enzymes, and the other common tests. Its alot better to have tests done to learn how your body responds to certain meds. IMO this is essential when using orals, but still advisable for injectable cycle too.

----------


## Anteros

> Nothing is really hepatoxic unless its methylated. So m1t would be the only thing i can see that could have liver enzyme issues, get some blood work done to check liver enzyme levels, and if you've never done it before i would have everything checked test (free & bound), liver enzymes, and the other common tests. Its alot better to have tests done to learn how your body responds to certain meds. IMO this is essential when using orals, but still advisable for injectable cycle too.


yeah im going to get everything tested before during and after...that is of course permitting the before tests allow for the cycle to start. The more I think about it though, i think doing a 1ad/4ad cycle first to see how my body reacts would be a better idea. could i run it with everything else in ur recommended cycle being the same? the precautionary supps and the pct ? so instead of m1t and 4derm just 1ad/4ad caps...

thanks for all ur time  :Smilie:

----------


## nsa

The cycle would be fine but the gains would be less. Unless some serious health issues are present i doubt the before tests will prevent the cycle. The dangers of M1T/4-AD are often very exagerated. But still some dangers are real. Thats why you have to have things monitored.

----------


## Anteros

> The cycle would be fine but the gains would be less. Unless some serious health issues are present i doubt the before tests will prevent the cycle. The dangers of M1T/4-AD are often very exagerated. But still some dangers are real. Thats why you have to have things monitored.


i agree, thanks for the help...is there any reason why ur not a mod or vet? if theres a way to recommend or vote for u ill do it.

----------


## nsa

> i agree, thanks for the help...is there any reason why ur not a mod or vet? if theres a way to recommend or vote for u ill do it.


I dunno, thanks though.

----------


## Whitey

> get some blood work done to check liver enzyme levels, and if you've never done it before i would have everything checked test (free & bound), liver enzymes, and the other common tests. Its alot better to have tests done to learn how your body responds to certain meds. IMO this is essential when using orals, but still advisable for injectable cycle too.


Excellent advice!

----------


## Bleche

Okay. I can't find trans or any form of 4-ad anywhere, if somebody has a link that still sells it I would appreciate a PM... I'd make my own if I found 4-ad in pillform but I'm not even having luck with that, I can get 1ad atm but that may be shortlived as well if you think that would be better than nothing while on the NSA cycle.

NSA - you said to use casein protein for weight gainer, much of what I have read says you should have whey after a normal meal or post workout and casein an hour after the whey, what is your opinion?

Just so I am a little more secure regarding what I am buying on the ar-r site, clomi is clomid and tamox is novla...?

Thanks for the earlier response!

----------


## Whitey

You're going to be hard pressed to obtain prohormones now that they are in the same category as AAS, bro. I would say that 1-AD is definitely better than nothing. This issue has been debated, but from my experience, I believe 1-T and M1T to be dramatically different compounds, and therefore, I would have no second thoughts about stacking 1-AD and M1T. If you experience lethargy with M1T, I don't know how much 1-AD will help - I never really got the lethargy, so it's hard for me to say.

And yes, clomi=clomid and tamox=nolva.

----------


## Bleche

I didn't have many problems with the lethargy on prior cycles, I kept my carbs up and everything seemed to work out fine, I guess I will go ahead and get the 1-AD if it is available.

Thanks for clarification regarding the research chems...

----------


## Whitey

NP, bro. Definitely keep the carbs up, and if you need a boost, you could always go with an ECA just for some temporary relief.

----------


## nsa

> NSA - you said to use casein protein for weight gainer, much of what I have read says you should have whey after a normal meal or post workout and casein an hour after the whey, what is your opinion?


Whey protein is fast digesting protein, it is easily broken down so it can be used quickly. Casein protein is a much slower digesting protein, it is broken down slowly so it pretty much drip feeds your body protein over a few hours. Whey protein should be a staple for anyone who trains seriously, but casein is a very nice addition for longer periods of time when you won't be eating, such as during work, school or sleep. Casein should not be used PWO, for that you need whey.

----------


## Whitey

I wonder why we don't hear that much about casein? It really seems like we should be using it throughout most of the day, rather than whey.

----------


## nsa

Yeah, IMO it is better than whey for extended protein absorbtion. It's more difficult to process than whey so that causes it to be more expensive.

----------


## Whitey

True. Theoretically, it should be more effective due to the extended absorption, and you should be able to utilize more of it. That would help balance the added cost. You think?

----------


## nsa

Yeah. I still buy micellar casein protein even though its expensive.

----------


## Anteros

don't remember if this thread mentioned why milk thistle is only for pct. Is there anything wrong with taking it during?

----------


## Anteros

hey nsa....pls make a final critque of my cycle before i finalize my purchase  :Smilie:  

week 1-4 : 10 mg m1t ED split into 2 dosages. 5g after breakfast, 5g after last meal
Weeks 1-4: 400 mg ED of 4ad/1ad capsules split into 4 dosages taken with meals. (should I increase this to 600g split into 3 dosages since its oral?)
Weeks 1-4: 1500 mg ED of hawthorne berry extract

PCT:
Weeks 5-8: 40 mg ED of Nolvadex for the first two weeks, Then down to 20 mg ED of Nolvadex
Weeks 5-8: Clomid Therapy, 300 mg of clomid first day, 100 mg of clomid next 10 days, 50 mg of clomid for final 10 days of clomid therapy.
Weeks 5-8: Milk Thistle 1000 mg of milk thistle ED 

last questions:

nething else u recommend as worth taking from ur experience? 
is the hawkthorne dosage taken all at once or split through the day?
are the nolva and clomid and milk thistle dosages taken all at once or split up during the day?
i just posted this earlier but here it is again, nething wrong with taking milk thistle during?

thanks a lot

----------


## nsa

> hey nsa....pls make a final critque of my cycle before i finalize my purchase  
> 
> week 1-4 : 10 mg m1t ED split into 2 dosages. 5g after breakfast, 5g after last meal
> Weeks 1-4: 400 mg ED of 4ad/1ad capsules split into 4 dosages taken with meals. (should I increase this to 600g split into 3 dosages since its oral?)
> Weeks 1-4: 1500 mg ED of hawthorne berry extract
> 
> PCT:
> Weeks 5-8: 40 mg ED of Nolvadex for the first two weeks, Then down to 20 mg ED of Nolvadex
> Weeks 5-8: Clomid Therapy, 300 mg of clomid first day, 100 mg of clomid next 10 days, 50 mg of clomid for final 10 days of clomid therapy.
> ...


I would go transdermal if you can for the 4-ad. But if thats all you have i would drastically increase the dose. Hawthorne berry extract should be split up. Nolvadex and clomid can be taken once, they have half-lives over 24 hours. Milk thistle should be split up. You can take milk thistle during. One study showed it hindered the results from a methylated oral, but all of the others i've seen say no significant drop in gains.

----------


## Anteros

> I would go transdermal if you can for the 4-ad. But if thats all you have i would drastically increase the dose. Hawthorne berry extract should be split up. Nolvadex and clomid can be taken once, they have half-lives over 24 hours. Milk thistle should be split up. You can take milk thistle during. One study showed it hindered the results from a methylated oral, but all of the others i've seen say no significant drop in gains.


4ad/1ad is all thats available, so would 800g split into 4 dosages do the trick? 

would u also recommend letrozole then because of the high dose of 4ad?

thanks

----------


## Bizzare_777

Im goin to be startin another m1t cycle after my pct in 3 weeks. In my previous cycle i developed prolacin gyno from the 4ad and got puffy nipps, ive been on vitamin b-6 for 11 days and it seems to be slowly goin away. but not completly. Im wonderin if i would need to use b-6 durin my cycles for now on to continue blockin the prolactin? I heard b-6 can be dangerous @ 300 mg's twice daily if using to long, do you guys know anything on this?

----------


## nsa

> 4ad/1ad is all thats available, so would 800g split into 4 dosages do the trick? 
> 
> would u also recommend letrozole then because of the high dose of 4ad?
> 
> thanks


Thats too much unless its a typo. 800-1200 mg ED is alright but not 800 grams. No need for letro IMO because oral 4-ad has a lower conversion rate to test than transdermal or injectable so with less conversion to test you will have less aromatization.

----------


## nsa

> Im goin to be startin another m1t cycle after my pct in 3 weeks. In my previous cycle i developed prolacin gyno from the 4ad and got puffy nipps, ive been on vitamin b-6 for 11 days and it seems to be slowly goin away. but not completly. Im wonderin if i would need to use b-6 durin my cycles for now on to continue blockin the prolactin? I heard b-6 can be dangerous @ 300 mg's twice daily if using to long, do you guys know anything on this?


You did not get prolactin gynocomestia from 4-ad. You might have gotten estrogen gyno from 4-ad or prolactin gyno from m1t. Its not dangerous at that dose. Its a vitamin, its not going to be toxic unless your using like grams of the stuff. 

BTW what was your daily dose of M1T during the cycle?

----------


## Bizzare_777

My daily dose was 10 mg's for the 1st week, then i increased it to 20 mg's daily. But rite around the 5th day was when i began to notice the puffy nips. 12 days into pct with nolva, clomid, milk thistle and Vitamin b-6 and my nips still look puffy, but i do notice its not as puffy. I figured within one week they would go back to normal size, with b-6 @ 300mg's, twice daily. The reason i asked about b6 being toxic was because i did read in steroidology.com, a thread about b6 takin in the amount that exceeds 100mg's could cause nerve damage and they all seemed to agree.

----------


## nsa

Not oral b-6, injectable b-6...

----------


## Anteros

> Thats too much unless its a typo. 800-1200 mg ED is alright but not 800 grams. No need for letro IMO because oral 4-ad has a lower conversion rate to test than transdermal or injectable so with less conversion to test you will have less aromatization.


yeah it was a typo, im gonna stick to 800mg and see how it goes, if need be ill up the dose...i just hope the the extra 1ad doesn't become a real nuisance on the liver.

one more question, i tried searching for it here without much success, how effective are 4ad/1ad only cycles? the sticky ph says very effective, how would u compare it to m1t effectiveness and do u have ne direct/indirect experience with such a cycle?

thanks nsa

----------


## nsa

> yeah it was a typo, im gonna stick to 800mg and see how it goes, if need be ill up the dose...i just hope the the extra 1ad doesn't become a real nuisance on the liver.
> 
> one more question, i tried searching for it here without much success, how effective are 4ad/1ad only cycles? the sticky ph says very effective, how would u compare it to m1t effectiveness and do u have ne direct/indirect experience with such a cycle?
> 
> thanks nsa


Before my injury i used mag-10 for a few cycles which is oral 1-ad/4-ad and i had pretty solid results. M1t/trans 4-ad is alot more effective than 1-ad/oral 4-ad, but it is also much more hepatoxic because of the methylation of the 1-test.

----------


## Anteros

> Before my injury i used mag-10 for a few cycles which is oral 1-ad/4-ad and i had pretty solid results. M1t/trans 4-ad is alot more effective than 1-ad/oral 4-ad, but it is also much more hepatoxic because of the methylation of the 1-test.


how much did u gain off a mag-10 cycle? And since I cant get any 4derm, im thinking m1t with 1ad/4ad may be a little much for the liver, and I may get good results from the 1ad/4ad alone.  :Don't know:

----------


## nsa

> how much did u gain off a mag-10 cycle? And since I cant get any 4derm, im thinking m1t with 1ad/4ad may be a little much for the liver, and I may get good results from the 1ad/4ad alone.


I gained about 15-20 pounds from four 2 week cycles and pct. 1-ad/4-ad isn't that bad for your liver. As long as you stay with 10 mg of m1t you'll be fine. If your really that worried about your liver than run milk thistle throughout the cycle.

----------


## Bleche

Can somebody answer if it is a myth or not that M1T will cause your internal organs to grow as well causing you to have a pot belly like appearance. Seems like bs, but normal steroids can have this side, just curious of your opinions.

NSA is stacking 1AD with M1T instead of 4AD alright? 4AD went *poof*

----------


## nsa

I haven't seen any studies showing that to be true.

1-ad won't convert to testosterone , so no it won't be a good substitute for 4-ad. Try and get some test if you can't get 4-ad. You can stack 1-ad with m1t, but you need to run 4-ad with that stack.

----------


## Whitey

> Can somebody answer if it is a myth or not that M1T will cause your internal organs to grow as well causing you to have a pot belly like appearance. Seems like bs, but normal steroids can have this side, just curious of your opinions.


I think that is a complete myth, and perhaps you are confusing steroids with GH in terms of enlargement of internal organs. The only thing I can think of is some of the more androgenic steroids tend to cause bloat (due to estrogen aromatization), which appears to enlarge the midsection , but in reality, is only temporary water retention. For me, though, M1T, did cause water retention, but nothing to the extreme that could be confused with GH gut.

----------


## Bleche

Okay, now that I think about it you're probably write, Ive been reading up on growth hormones lately.. DOH! Many apologies if I got it confused, I still thought I read something about steroids increasing internal organ size but maybe not. If I run by the article I will let you know, if memory servces me correctly it was a bodybuilding.com article.

Okay, now to the next question, M1T + ibuprofin = slowing down the healing process? 

BTW I noticed a side today nobody has listed, this is my third cycle, each time for the first 2-3 days my ears feel really sensitive to sound and feel kind of like there is increased pressure on them.. I thought in the past it was something else but after starting my cycle today and a few hours it coming back I've realized that was what it is after all.

----------


## nsa

There are some sides that only certain people have, everyone is slightly different physiologically.

----------


## Saleensrule

Has anyone else gotten really bad shin splints while on M1T? I know about the lower back pumps, but my shins have been killing me too. Also After I have finished the cycle of M1T and start PCT how long before the lower back pumps and in my case shin splints go away?

----------


## Whitey

> Has anyone else gotten really bad shin splints while on M1T? I know about the lower back pumps, but my shins have been killing me too. Also After I have finished the cycle of M1T and start PCT how long before the lower back pumps and in my case shin splints go away?


Bro, I had really bad shin pumps on M1T - they weren't shin splints, though. What it felt like, though was if I continued any further with whatever exercise I was doing, that some of the blood vessels would just explode. It was extremely painful and kept me from doing leg exercises for at least half of the cycle. I found a comfortable dose of 15mg would keep the sides to a minimum. Like nsa said above, everybody is different in the way they react to different compounds. I get pretty crazy shin pumps from other compounds as well - test prop for example, just not as bad as M1T. If I recall correctly, it took about 3-4 weeks off to get back to normal - so toward the end of PCT it was mostly gone. Hope that helps, bro.

----------


## Bleche

I had the "shin splints" too. I thought they were shin splints anyways, never thought about it being a pump, it took me about 4-5 weeks before I could start jogging without pain again. I haven't had the back pumps yet and I hope I don't but we'll soon find out... 

Thanks for the response guys. What about taking ibuprofin with a methalated product?

----------


## Whitey

After the description I gave, do you guys think you had the same kind of pumps I had, or actually shin splints? I had shin splints in high school, and they were different. As far as ibuprofren - I know it can put some stress on the liver, obviously not as much as acetaminophen, and I believe less than naproxen as well. Whether it's a good choice I think would depend on (a) How high a dose of methylated compound are you taking, and how long? and (b) How well does ibuprofren eliminate the shin pain? For my problem, I doubt it would help much. For actual shin splints it might help some. If it's pumps like mine, I'd think anything that could be done to reduce blood pressure would be the most effective strategy. As far as painkillers, I would think Aspirin wouldn't hurt anything, and might even help. JMO.

----------


## ash146

just started my pct as of yesterday but i am coming down with a throat infection ... i' gonna go see my doctor - in the past he's given me penilliciln (sorry for the spelling) ... will this interfere? I can up the dosage on my milk thystle to help out the liver.

----------


## Saleensrule

Mine are definatley shin splints I get them really bad when I walke long distnace to class since its a hilly campus and wehn I play basketball they come back, but when I do legs no problems at all, just with running and walking activites.

----------


## Bleche

Mine are pumps, I ran track for years with no problems, funny that I would have "shin splints" right after starting to take M1T. Third cycle, they are coming back even though Im not running, it has to be pumps. 

Im not taking ibuprofin for shin splints, it was for my shoulder, Im having trouble with bursitis in my left shoulder after ****ing up a bench press doing a forced rep. Im not going to take it while on cycle just in case, Im doing NSA's cycle only without the 4AD since I couldnt find any ANYWHERE. That's going to be the only thing I'm not using, no lethargy yet and it's day three, running trib at 45% saponins beside it so my buddies dont shrink (it really works, first cycle they shrunk big time, second cycle w/ trip they didn't change but a small amount).

As for a weight gainer, ATM Im using the following recipe if anybody wants to try it out, tastes pretty good!

3 tblsp natural peanut butter
1/2 cup oats
1-2 scoops choc protein mix
1 banana
16 oz. of milk
2 tblsp flax oil

Yes, it has a lot of fat, but it's mostly good fats..

----------


## Reelmuscle

How would one go about doing a test/M1T cycle given that M1T can only be used for a maximum of 4 weeks? Is the bottom correct?

Weeks 1-4: 10 mg ED of M1t / 500 mg test / 1500 mg ED of hawthorne berry extract 

Weeks 5-8: 500 mg test / Milk Thistle 1000 mg ED

Weeks 9-10: 500 mg test

PCT:
Clomid/Nolva therapy.

 :Don't know:

----------


## prolangtum

Start PCT two weeks after last test inject. Looks fine.

----------


## prolangtum

NSA,
For Copyright/Plagerism purposes it would be wise to credit the author of this article, David Tolson. You wouldnt want to be sued over something silly like this.

*No part of this article may be reproduced in any form without the permission of David Tolson or Mike McCandless.*

----------


## nsa

> NSA,
> For Copyright/Plagerism purposes it would be wise to credit the author of this article, David Tolson. You wouldnt want to be sued over something silly like this.
> 
> *No part of this article may be reproduced in any form without the permission of David Tolson or Mike McCandless.*


????

----------


## Whitey

> How would one go about doing a test/M1T cycle given that M1T can only be used for a maximum of 4 weeks? Is the bottom correct?
> 
> Weeks 1-4: 10 mg ED of M1t / 500 mg test / 1500 mg ED of hawthorne berry extract 
> 
> Weeks 5-8: 500 mg test / Milk Thistle 1000 mg ED
> 
> Weeks 9-10: 500 mg test
> 
> PCT:
> Clomid/Nolva therapy.


That looks fine bro. Assuming you are using Test E or C, prolangtum is right on about when to start PCT.

----------


## Whitey

> That's going to be the only thing I'm not using, no lethargy yet and it's day three, running trib at 45% saponins beside it so my buddies dont shrink (it really works, first cycle they shrunk big time, second cycle w/ trip they didn't change but a small amount).
> 
> As for a weight gainer, ATM Im using the following recipe if anybody wants to try it out, tastes pretty good!
> 
> 3 tblsp natural peanut butter
> 1/2 cup oats
> 1-2 scoops choc protein mix
> 1 banana
> 16 oz. of milk
> ...


Good idea to run trib all the way through. Are you running 4g/ED? The trib may even help with the lethargy, if you're even affected by the lethargy at all. LOL - your weightgainer sounds tasty, bro - it looks like about 1000 calories though. A couple of those a day, and you'll be huge, dude  :LOL:

----------


## ash146

hey anyone who ran clomid and nolva for their PCT - did you experience any lethargy?

----------


## Whitey

Nope, sure didn't.

----------


## DustinLati

just in case anybody missed my post in the PCT section....tamoxifen (nolva) is a cancer cauing carcinogen?

http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/roc/eleventh/known.pdf

Well my first question is WTF? My second question is I know 6-oxo is supposedly not good enough for PCT....what about running clomid and 6-oxo for PCT. **** this nolva ****. I already ran a 4week cycle of it, i better not get ****ing cancer.

----------


## wired-up

> just in case anybody missed my post in the PCT section....tamoxifen (nolva) is a cancer cauing carcinogen?
> 
> http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/roc/eleventh/known.pdf
> 
> Well my first question is WTF? My second question is I know 6-oxo is supposedly not good enough for PCT....what about running clomid and 6-oxo for PCT. **** this nolva ****. I already ran a 4week cycle of it, i better not get ****ing cancer.


yeah, so is alcohol cosumption. big deal. that link you provided also states that there is conclusive evidence that nolva helps eliminate cancer. i think you're blowing this out of proportion.

----------


## ash146

> Nope, sure didn't.


thanks whitey ... must be this cold i'm coming down with.

----------


## wired-up

> hey anyone who ran clomid and nolva for their PCT - did you experience any lethargy?


i'm on both right now and no lethargy.

----------


## swoll4589

> just in case anybody missed my post in the PCT section....tamoxifen (nolva) is a cancer cauing carcinogen?
> 
> http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/roc/eleventh/known.pdf
> 
> Well my first question is WTF? My second question is I know 6-oxo is supposedly not good enough for PCT....what about running clomid and 6-oxo for PCT. **** this nolva ****. I already ran a 4week cycle of it, i better not get ****ing cancer.




just about everything that isnt done in moderation does.

tobacco prouducts, heating food up in styrofoam,breathing in smoke,etc

----------


## Whitey

> thanks whitey ... must be this cold i'm coming down with.


Sure, bro. Good luck with that - couldn't have come at a worse time.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Reelmuscle

> That looks fine bro. Assuming you are using Test E or C, prolangtum is right on about when to start PCT.


What about Omnadren250?

----------


## Whitey

> What about Omnadren250?


Omnadren is almost identical to Sustanon . Rule of thumb is you need to inject more often than 1x/wk th keep levels stable due to the shorter esters in the blend. Same rule of thumb applies for PCT after last injection as Cyp or Enanthate .

Hope that helps

----------


## Reelmuscle

> Omnadren is almost identical to Sustanon . Rule of thumb is you need to inject more often than 1x/wk th keep levels stable due to the shorter esters in the blend. Same rule of thumb applies for PCT after last injection as Cyp or Enanthate .
> 
> Hope that helps


So, ultimately this is ok? 

Weeks 1-4: 10 mg ED of M1t / 500 mg of Omna250 (250 on Monday, 250 on Thursday) / 1500 mg ED of hawthorne berry extract 

Weeks 5-8: 500 mg test (Omna250)/ Milk Thistle 1000 mg ED

Weeks 9-10: 500 mg test (Omna250)

PCT: 2 weeks after last injection? or isnt it 18 days with omna?

Clomid/Nolva therapy.

----------


## Whitey

> 500 mg test (Omna250)
> 
> PCT: 2 weeks after last injection? or isnt it 18 days with omna?
> 
> Clomid/Nolva therapy.


Well, this is a topic of some debate. Answers range from 14 to 18 to 21 days. Part of this is because there is some disagreement whether Omna and Sust are the same exact compound. Some say yes, some say no.

It appears however that Sustanon contains: 30mg Testosterone Propionate , 60mg Testosterone Phenylpropionate, 60mg Testosterone Isocaproate, 100mg Testosterone Decanoate.

Omnadren , however, contains 30mg Testosterone Propionate , 60mg Testosterone Phenylpropionate, 60mg Testosterone Isohexanoate, 100mg Testosterone Hexanoate.

The half-life of the Hexanoate ester is 9 days, while the Decanoate is 15 days. Logically, then, PCT for Omna should begin earlier than for Sust. Ideally, this would all be avoided by running a shorter ester like Prop in place of the Omna for the last 4 weeks of the cycle, then starting PCT 3 days after last injection. This would also avoid the dreaded receding test levels while estrogen is still high - murder on gains and potential sides.

If you must run this all the way through with Omna, I would at least begin with anti-e's within 5-6 days of your last injection to combat the estrogen levels. I 'd probably go with anastrazole (l-dex).

----------


## prolangtum

> ????


Just need to put down the author David Tolson, and a link to the page, as it could be constured as plagerism, since the post gives no credit to the author.

----------


## prolangtum

Like so:
http://www.*************.com/?ingredients_id=38
Methyl-1-Testosterone 
By David Tolson

There are no products to list in this category.
Methyl 1-testosterone, or 17aa-1-testosterone, is the methylated version of the steroid 1-testosterone. This structural modification makes steroids much more orally bioavailable by inhibiting breakdown in the liver. Although it has only been widely available for a short period of time, feedback on this compound indicates that it may be the most effective legal prohormone/steroid product on the market regardless of delivery method, and it is hands down the most effective oral product. On the other hand, most users report a wealth of side effects, and this compound is not to be taken lightly. It does not have a long history of use or a well-established safety profile, and proper precautions should be taken.

The profile of methyl 1-test is similar to that of 1-test  it does not convert to estrogen, and it is highly anabolic and moderately androgenic (less than 1-test). When compared to orally administered methyltestosterone , methyl 1-test is 910-1600% as anabolic and 100-220% as androgenic.

The side effects reported by users of methyl 1-test are many and individual reactions vary considerably. The most commonly reported side effect is lethargy, which can range from mild to severe. Other common side effects include increased blood pressure, bloating, joint pains, cramps, mild headaches, insomnia, aggressiveness, and irritability. Many users also find that methyl 1-test decreases appetite, which can be harmful or beneficial depending on one's goals. These side effects can be reduced by lowering dosage or taking smaller doses more frequently. Combining it with another androgen (such as 4-AD) may also help, but feedback on this is limited.

Another concern with methyl 1-test (and methylated steroids in general) is hepatotoxicity. Although this tends to be exaggerated, it is still prudent to take certain precautions. First and foremost, other substances that are toxic to the liver (such as alcohol) should be avoided to avoid placing extra stress on the liver. If methyl 1-test is stacked, it would be best to stack it with something other than an oral steroid/prohormone, such as a transdermal. Milk thistle, alpha lipoic acid, and N-acetyl-cysteine are commonly recommended to help protect the liver. For further information on 17aa steroids and hepatotoxicity, see the following article:

Hepatotoxicity: Fact or Fiction, by Roy Harper

When taking methyl 1-test, it is best to start out with at least a week at a dose of 5-10 mg to see how one reacts. Many users find this range to be effective, while others feel the ideal amount is 20-40 mg. It comes down to the experience, goals, and individual reaction. Many find a lower dose to be just as effective as a higher one, but with less side effects. With a compound such as this, it is generally best to err on the side of caution, especially for those that are less experienced with steroids. Most seem to find their ideal dose to be in the 10-30 mg range. Cycle length should be kept short, in the range of 1-4 weeks. Finally, it is especially important to take adequate time off after each cycle with this substance to allow the body to recover.

If you have any questions or comments regarding this article, please email [email protected]*************.com.


No part of this article may be reproduced in any form without the permission of David Tolson or Mike McCandless.

----------


## Saleensrule

I'm on my first week of pct from M1t and I ran out of trib, is there anything I can substitute for a few days untill my order gets here? or will I be okay with out it for a few days?

----------


## prolangtum

Tribulus is not a sufficient PCT.

----------


## Saleensrule

I know thats not all I'm taking , but it ran out and I was wondering if I will be ok with out it for a few days, I am taking clomid and Nolvadex also.


Also My clen is 30ml 200mcg/ml so is .20ml enough for results I'm trying to get cut after my m1t bulking cycle, but no noticable sides.

----------


## prolangtum

clomid and nolvadex are fine, tribulus will have little impact on PCT IMO.

----------


## Reelmuscle

> Well, this is a topic of some debate. Answers range from 14 to 18 to 21 days. Part of this is because there is some disagreement whether Omna and Sust are the same exact compound. Some say yes, some say no.
> 
> It appears however that Sustanon contains: 30mg Testosterone Propionate , 60mg Testosterone Phenylpropionate, 60mg Testosterone Isocaproate, 100mg Testosterone Decanoate.
> 
> Omnadren , however, contains 30mg Testosterone Propionate , 60mg Testosterone Phenylpropionate, 60mg Testosterone Isohexanoate, 100mg Testosterone Hexanoate.
> 
> The half-life of the Hexanoate ester is 9 days, while the Decanoate is 15 days. Logically, then, PCT for Omna should begin earlier than for Sust. Ideally, this would all be avoided by running a shorter ester like Prop in place of the Omna for the last 4 weeks of the cycle, then starting PCT 3 days after last injection. This would also avoid the dreaded receding test levels while estrogen is still high - murder on gains and potential sides.
> 
> If you must run this all the way through with Omna, I would at least begin with anti-e's within 5-6 days of your last injection to combat the estrogen levels. I 'd probably go with anastrazole (l-dex).


So in conclusion, is it 14 days with omna or 18 days? What would you recommend?

----------


## Bleche

Shiot there have been a lot of posts since I was last on. 4 grams a day of tribulus? ED on my bottle is 3 times a day at 500 mg a piece.. should I bump it up??? I took 650 mg a day last cycle and it worked out alright but if you think I should up it to 5 so be it. I never found anything about what dosage to take while on cycle so I just followed the directions on the bottle.


Yea in the weight gainer, I think it is right about 900-1000 calories, I haven't been able to gain weight for the life of me and everybody says Im not getting enough calories so Im going all out. It's day 4 today, I weighed in at 180 yesterday and I was 175 on Monday when I started my cycle, not to attribute that to the M1T but it's nice to see the jump whatever it is. I've been using the weight gainer recipe about two weeks every day, twice a day, to try to get 3000-4000 calories a day.

----------


## nsa

> Just need to put down the author David Tolson, and a link to the page, as it could be constured as plagerism, since the post gives no credit to the author.


I took that part of my post from a website containing the characteristics of methyl-1-testosterone , which didn't state the author. The bulk of the post was just what i wrote off the top off my head.

----------


## Saleensrule

Hey NSA my clen is 30ml 200mcg/ml so is .20ml enough for results I'm trying to get cut up after my m1t bulking cycle and get my bf% down, but I would like to minimize the noticable sides. or is that amount not even going to give me any results?

----------


## Whitey

> I took that part of my post from a website containing the characteristics of methyl-1-testosterone, which didn't state the author. The bulk of the post was just what i wrote off the top off my head.


And a good post it is, bro. 22 pages can't be wrong!  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## nsa

> Hey NSA my clen is 30ml 200mcg/ml so is .20ml enough for results I'm trying to get cut up after my m1t bulking cycle and get my bf% down, but I would like to minimize the noticable sides. or is that amount not even going to give me any results?


Thats a good starting dose. But work your way up to a reasonable dose where there are not many sides. Search for clen handbook.

----------


## prolangtum

I wasnt bashing ou NSA, I was just tryin gto help you avoid legal trouble, as Tolson has been known to be nitpicky about things like this. At least this helps the endless M 1T threads. I lovw M 1T myself. I have taken everything from anadrol , dbol , winstrol , and all injectables, and M 1T is my favorite oral next to anadrol. Right now Im on 50mgs a day, and i swear it almost seems as I can add muscle every workout.

----------


## nsa

> I wasnt bashing ou NSA, I was just tryin gto help you avoid legal trouble, as Tolson has been known to be nitpicky about things like this. At least this helps the endless M 1T threads. I lovw M 1T myself. I have taken everything from anadrol, dbol, winstrol, and all injectables, and M 1T is my favorite oral next to anadrol. Right now Im on 50mgs a day, and i swear it almost seems as I can add muscle every workout.


Im not making anything from this. In fact no one even knows who i am. Im just a poor college student trying to get into med school, i doubt anyone is going to legally go after someone in my position.

----------


## Reelmuscle

> So in conclusion, is it 14 days with omna or 18 days? What would you recommend?


Nsa? Whitey?

----------


## prolangtum

> Nsa? Whitey?


Just treat it like 14 day half life, but run PCT therapy an extra 4 days, just in case it is indeed 18 days. Cover your ass all around.

----------


## Whitey

Bro, I don't have a positive answer for you because like I said before, there's a lot of disagreement on this and I've never run it myself. I much prefer single esters, for exactly this reason. That said, IMO start no later than 14 days after last inj., given the 9-day half life of the longest ester in the blend. 

For PCT, especially because of the potential inaccuracy of the timing, I would scratch the 300/100/50 clomid method - meaning don't use 300mg the first day; start at 100mg and run it longer - say 10 days before bumping down to 50mg. When I run my PCT I use 100mg clomid for 15 days, then 75 for the remainder, but that is just my personal preference. As an additional precaution, I would begin the anti-e's maybe 3-5 days before PCT to reduce estrogen as your test levels are dropping.

Hope that helps.

----------


## prolangtum

I hate high dose clomid, I recover better with nolvadex anyway. But if you must use clomid, I would run a slightly lower dose, and add nolvadex to it. That is unless you like crying during chic flicks. Whitey basically spelled out what I was trying to get at in my post above, but my wording sucked.

----------


## Whitey

> But if you must use clomid, I would run a slightly lower dose, and add nolvadex to it. That is unless you like crying during chic flicks.


LOL...The clomid cries.  :LOL:  You're right - I hear that from a lot of bros, I guess I'm lucky it has never affected me like that. What it does do is make me break out into about a thousand zits - and that makes me want to cry.  :LOL:

----------


## lampshade

forgive the ignorance. if i use m1t, will i test pos. in my test 1 month from now?

----------


## Whitey

What test are you taking? There is no test that I know of that screens for M1T.

----------


## lampshade

thats my question. i play pro baseball. the league is coming down hard on steroids ....and i dont know if m1t is a steroid or not. i mwould think not, seeing as i bought it over the counter, but i wanted to be sure

----------


## Whitey

Well, yes it is a steroid , but not one that was screened for, to my knowledge. As of last month, it has officially been scheduled with AAS, so it is illegal to purchase (and possess). This is something you'll def. want to research, since it is of such importance to you. What type of club do you play for?

----------


## lampshade

thanks for the help. guess ill call the company . the number is on the bottle. thing is i wont trust him if he says" oh yeah- go right ahead" . 
i signed this year with the pittsburgh pirates

----------


## Whitey

Well, sh!t man, congratulations! I don't think calling the company will help but it's worth a try. Depending on the manufacturer, there may be nobody on the other end of the line.

Why don't you post your question in the Sports Forum here? There are a lot of athletes here who have to pass drug tests, maybe someone can help with your question. Good luck brother!

----------


## Reelmuscle

Thanks guy...much appreciated.

----------


## Whitey

No problem, bro. Hope everything works out.

----------


## Saleensrule

Hey NSA I' on my 5th day of PCT and I just realized that because of a mistake in measuring I have been takin way way to little of my clomid and Novalex than what you recomended in your sample cycle I was following. My question is should I just start taking the right dosage for the days I'm on in PCT or start PCT days over and beging with the big dosage of clomid like you suggest on the first day of PCT?

----------


## nsa

You could just start over with the sample PCT, or you could go with something like 100 mg of clomid and 30 mg of nolvadex ED, that should jack up your test levels pretty quick.

----------


## Saleensrule

ok thanks also Whats the worst thats gonna come from this just a lil loss in size and strength? I think I'm just gonna do what you said taking 30mg of tamox and 100mg of clomid ed , but how long should I do this for the whole pct or just for a week or so and then go back to regular pct? hopefully that will get things back on track

----------


## Saleensrule

This is all startting to make sense now, I was wondering why I was startting to lose weight that I had gained and wasen't looking as big in the mirror as when I was on m1t, good thing its only been 5lbs so far hopefully I can keep the rest and get some back even. Well this is a lesson learned and if I do another cycle hopefully I can get better end results startting with the proper pct. Thanks for all the help NSA

----------


## nsa

Some of the weight is probably water and electrolyte retention. Your body isn't going to tear down everything you've built in a few days because of low test levels. Just keep working out with intensity and don't slack on your diet. I like using clen during pct to help keep me from putting on fat when i bulk during pct. You look pretty lean, so if you can't handle clen then just eat alot.

----------


## Saleensrule

I'm just gonna do what you said taking 30mg of tamox and 100mg of clomid ed, So NSA how long should I do this for the whole pct or just for a week or so and then go back to regular pct?

----------


## nsa

3 weeks is good.

----------


## Farhan

I bought a bottle of m1t a few weeks ago, in canada
http://www.befit.ca/mdtotalnutrition/animal_stack.html
Its at the very bottom of the page, Andro Technologies M1T 
I talked to the store teller and they said to take two 10mg casules a day, however i read the first page of this thread and you guys have capsules that are 5mg each and you take 2 a day which equals 10mg
should i take what the person at the store told me to take or should i take 1 capsule a day since mine come in 10mg capsules? And if i take one a day, when is the best time to take it?
thanx

----------


## YounG_SluG11

10mg is really all you need of M1T, so one pill a day. The best time to take it imo would be before you workout due to it's short half-life

----------


## prolangtum

It has somewhere around an 8-9 hour half life, I would take it 2x daily.

----------


## Farhan

^ soo i should take it twice a day even though they are 10mg capsules?

----------


## nsa

If 10 mg is your desired dose then split the tablet in half and take a half tablet twice daily.

----------


## Whitey

2x/ED. 10mg is the starting point, some require more than others. 7-10 days into the cycle, you should be able to tell if your dose is effective. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Don't hesitate to split the pills in half, like nsa said.

----------


## YounG_SluG11

> If 10 mg is your desired dose then split the tablet in half and take a half tablet twice daily.


You really don't have to do that bro. I did it each way in two different cycles and nothing was different. I actually think I did better when I just took one 10mg dose, but maybe that was just me. Anyways, either way will work.

----------


## Whitey

Bro, young slug is right that you can get good results off of one dose per day. There are other reasons to split the dose up though. As mentioned before, the compound has a short half-life. In order to maintain steady plasma levels, the common wisdom is to overlap the doses to keep the level from dropping too low. For example injectible testosterone enanthate has a half-life of 10.5 days, but it is shot every 7 days. Test prop has a half-life of 4.5 days, but it is shot ED or EOD at the longest. One important aspect of this method is that it helps you avoid the estrogen/testosterone imbalance and the side effects that can result. What I mean is whenever you raise your hormone levels, you're raising estrogen levels in the process. That's okay, as long as your male hormone levels are high. It's not okay to have elevated estro levels if your male hormones get low. IOW, fluctuation is not good.

This is all theory, and young slug has experience that either way works fine for him - and I won't discount that. I will run any future cycles with a split doseage, but that is just my opinion - take it for what it's worth.

----------


## slizzut

I can't believe this hasn't been stickied up top

----------


## Whitey

WTF? I thought it was, but it's not now. Maybe I was wrong.

----------


## YounG_SluG11

It should be. There's a lot good information in here.

----------


## prolangtum

If your pills are not able to be split, such as a capsule it will be fine to take once a day. But IMO, optimal results will come from splitting dosages up.

----------


## Farhan

thanx guys
i check my capsules, they are not breakable, dammit
anways, will 1 10mg cap be enough for one once a day?
Im 6'1 198 pounds

----------


## Whitey

Maybe, maybe not - try it and see. If it's not, after a week to a week and a half, bump it up. You can still divide the dose, it'll just be more of a pain in the ass.

----------


## nsa

For someone your weight you might need more than 10 mg ED. Whats your BF% or FFM #? If your relatively low BF% then i would say go with 20 mg ED if all you have are 10 mg caps. I would just see what works for you without sides becoming too much for you. BTW, your first M1T cycle is generally the best by way of gains, at least it was for me. So don't waste your first cycle.

----------


## Whitey

I agree with nsa - my first cycle was far and away the most productive. I started at 25mg and bumped to 35mg - I don't recommend that, though - better to keep the dose as low as possible while making good gains.

----------


## Reelmuscle

Hey guys, one more question. Do you know if the use of M1T and all the organic compounds you take with it as countermeasures (w/o the 4-ad) will show up on a drug test for a job? I really want to start but i am worried about this as i have a few interviews coming up. thanks.

----------


## Whitey

Not a chance, bro - don't sweat it.

----------


## Reelmuscle

> Not a chance, bro - don't sweat it.


Thanks Whitey, you have been a great help thus far! Much appreciated.

----------


## Whitey

Not a problem, brother - good luck with everything.

----------


## Reelmuscle

nsa, i was reading throug this thread to find the best times to take M1T. I see you have said every 6 hrs and every 12 hrs. Which one is prefered? I am planning on taking 10 mg for 4 wks. Do i take 5mg in the morning and 5mg at night before bed? Or do i take 5mg every 6 hrs?

----------


## prolangtum

Take 5mg in the AM, and another 5mg about 9 hours later.

----------


## Reelmuscle

> Take 5mg in the AM, and another 5mg about 9 hours later.


Cool, thanks man. I hope i make some gains knowing that i tried a real aas cycle (500mg omna250 for 10 wks) before this for the first time. I will keep u guys posted.

----------


## prolangtum

You may want a slightly higher dosage than. Maybe the second week bump it up to 15, then 20 the final weeks. IMO 10mgs of M 1T wont quite compare to 500mg of test for 10 weeks. But, if 10mgs is doing the trick, keep it at 10.

----------


## Reelmuscle

> You may want a slightly higher dosage than. Maybe the second week bump it up to 15, then 20 the final weeks. IMO 10mgs of M 1T wont quite compare to 500mg of test for 10 weeks. But, if 10mgs is doing the trick, keep it at 10.


Cool man, will do. Thanks

----------


## Bleche

Blah! This is my third cycle.. It has been 11 days since I started the cycle and although I have gained about 7-8 lbs, I dont feel the strength increases as I did on the previous cycles. Should I bump up to 20mg??? I'm just wondering if a good portion of it is water weight.

I'm 5'11 182lbs 10%BF consuming around 3k calories a day on cycle.

----------


## Whitey

I would. My first cycle was far and away better than my second or third. It seems to decrease in effectiveness each time. This is the nature of all compounds, and one of the main reasons to try to reach your genetic limit naturally before using hormones.

Bump it up, and watch the sides carefully. JMO.

----------


## prolangtum

Your third cycle at 10mgs? I would expect diminishing returns on 10mgs.

----------


## Bleche

That's what I think is happening. I took 2 months off between my last cycle and this one. I was stupid with first and second cycle.. blah. This time Im going to use the research chems. BTW anybody used the Cia on aar's site??

----------


## nsa

bump

----------


## gpupp

great post nsa..great info guys..just a little stuck here in the midst of nsa's mit stack:

26
5'8
210
15% bf
5 years of training
doing hybrid westside training
went from 195 to 210 in 16 days on cycle

notable improvements:
incline db: 85-8 to 105-8
bench: 265-3 to 295-3
squat: 225-12 to 315-12
GM: 185-3 to 225-3
tbar: 180-6 to 225-6
push press: 165-5 to 195-5

ph taken:
1ad once
clen once

so after two weeks at 10mg m1t, I don't feel the pump or anything anymore..seem to have wore off..now should I go to 15mg or stick through the next two weeks at 10mg? Or stop the cycle end of third week and start PCT? thanks for the help!

----------


## prolangtum

at 210 I would bump it to 15 or 20mgs.

----------


## nsa

At 210 i would bump it up to 20 mg ED. 15 mg might even be too little for you, especially if your not feeling anything from 10 mg.

----------


## Soldier of Misfortune

I started round 2 today. Im runnin 15-20-20-25mg weeks 1-4 and 600mg 4derm ed. Eatin even more like a pig too. I never got pics after my first run but Ill be sure to get some after this one. Most people had noticed sereous size gains after the first one of only 10mg ed throughout, so this run should be hella better.

----------


## Bleche

UPDATE:
I have one week left in my 4 week cycle, I have gone from 172-174 to 187.5 as of yesterday. I'm doing the sample cycle with exception of the 4ad, I haven't experienced any lethargy, I have been taking Trib in cycle so that may help. After the first week I went to 20mg a day, seemed to work better than 10mg, 10 mg around noon and 10mg around 10pm before bed.

I am going to start PCT next monday, I'm looking at 3 weeks of clomid and 4 weeks of novla (tamox), do you recommend using clen during PCT as well?

Also, they have a new product, LiquiDex.. it says it can replace both Clomid and Nolva, what do you guys think?

----------


## birtcheh

hey has anyone had m1t caps instead of tablets? i just did a 4week cycle and i gained like 8lbs but my strength didnt nearly go up as high as my first cycle..and they were tablets then. i even uped the dosage to 15mg instead of 10mg

----------


## sgn

> strength didnt nearly go up as high as my first cycle



I think I remember NSA saying that the more cycles of M1T you do, the less effective they are. NSA, mind on clarifying?

----------


## prolangtum

The more cycles you do, regardless of drug, there becomes more diminishing returns.

----------


## birtcheh

alright thanks guys.. i thought iremember reading that but i wasn't to sure. i thought there could of been maybe a little difference being caps n not tablets or somethin. and btw.. this thread is laaaaarge!

----------


## nsa

Bump...

----------


## Bleche

Okay I went from 172 to 187.5 on cycle, consuming at least 3000 calories a day and as much protein as I could, I'm on PCT right now (this is the first time I have used the clomid/nolvadex combo - the same as in sample cycle) and I am experiencing pain in a muslce on the right side of my back and cramping like what I got when I did my first M1T cycle. I'll just be sitting there and BAM my side goes ape sh!t in spasms. Any suggestions? Anybody else run into this?

----------


## Bleche

Okay I went from 172 to 187.5 on cycle, consuming at least 3000 calories a day and as much protein as I could, I'm on PCT right now (this is the first time I have used the clomid/nolvadex combo - the same as in sample cycle) and I am experiencing pain in a muslce on the right side of my back and cramping like what I got when I did my first M1T cycle. I'll just be sitting there and BAM my side goes ape sh!t in spasms. Any suggestions? Anybody else run into this?

----------


## prolangtum

Drink plenty of water and just monitor it. If it gets worse, then start worrying.

----------


## nsa

> Okay I went from 172 to 187.5 on cycle, consuming at least 3000 calories a day and as much protein as I could, I'm on PCT right now (this is the first time I have used the clomid/nolvadex combo - the same as in sample cycle) and I am experiencing pain in a muslce on the right side of my back and cramping like what I got when I did my first M1T cycle. I'll just be sitting there and BAM my side goes ape sh!t in spasms. Any suggestions? Anybody else run into this?


If its a muscle cramping, then drink alot of water, taurine and potassium. That should solve the problem if it is a cramp.

If its an internal pain try and figure out exactly where it is. If its your kidneys, use cranberry extract and drink lots of water. If its your liver, use milk thistle or NAC. 

If you think its the second point or if you do the stuff above and it doesn't get better, you should get checked out by your doctor. Be honest with the doctor, if you lie to them its only going to be hurting you in the long run. And they can't tell people your patient information anyways.

----------


## nsa

Bump

----------


## nixfan712

....

----------


## nixfan712

....

----------


## nsa

You could take l-dex with pct, but as an addition to nolvadex and clomid not as a replacement for nolvadex and clomid.

----------


## nsa

It helps if you know what the compounds actually do physiologically in your body. L-dex is an anti-aromatase, so it will stop test from converting to estrogen. IMO you still would need nolvadex and clomid.

----------


## prolangtum

I dont like AIs PC. They take estrogen dangerously low. Your HDL/LDL is already hurting from the M 1T. As NSA said, get nolvadex /clomid.

----------


## Machin3

yo Nsa im on day 4 doing 10mgs a day I can feel it like the effects

Im 5 10 and weight about 210 ish 


Should i bump it up the 2nd week and 3rd week and so on?

Opinion plz?

----------


## nsa

Whats your body fat % and what is your cycle experience?

----------


## Machin3

bf is like 14-16ish kidna high cycle experience 


umm 1-ad hahah just getting my feeet wet before summer comes around....

and how long does m1t stay in your system .. Is it detectable?

----------


## SwollSooner315

ok guys tell me what you think of this cycle

weeks 1-6: 900mg 1-AD, 400mg 4-AD
weeks 6-8: 15mg M-1T, 400mg 4-AD
PCT Novla, Clomid for 8 weeks

Any changes or suggestions?

----------


## SwollSooner315

im actually in week 4 of this cycle....my strength has gone through the roof and im noticing my arms are bigger...ive done a cycle of 1-ad alone before and i gained 13lbs....soo hopefully i can expect the same type of results

----------


## SwollSooner315

also just a quick rundown of my stats:
height: 5'10
weight: 245-250lbs (changes daily)
arms: 18.5
forearms: 14.5
quads: 29
calves: 18.5
chest: 50
bodyfat %: i would say 14-16% (im getting it check next week)

----------


## prolangtum

Looks like you have a solid base, and are already having good gains with 1-ad. Expect more when you start M 1T. I would bump the calroies up slightly when you start the M1T, maybe 250-400 a day.

----------


## SwollSooner315

the 1-ad seems to be killing my sex drive. i started the 4-ad 3 days ago after i started to feel the sides from the 1-ad. should i bump up the dosage or will it take a few more days for the 4-ad to kick in? (note: im using the 4Derm transdermal)

----------


## prolangtum

give it acouple days, than bump it up.

----------


## DevilsDeity

> the 1-ad seems to be killing my sex drive. i started the 4-ad 3 days ago after i started to feel the sides from the 1-ad. should i bump up the dosage or will it take a few more days for the 4-ad to kick in? (note: im using the 4Derm transdermal)


even with the 4-ad it did nothing to help my sex drive
Trib might help that a little but you probably wont see your drive comming back till pct.

----------


## SwollSooner315

alright guys thanks for the imput...i appreciate it

----------


## SwollSooner315

alright guys im fixing to order all of my stuff for PCT. How much clomid and novla should i take after i finish my current cycle?

----------


## prolangtum

Day 1 150mg clomid/40mg nolva
Day 2-4 100mg clomid/30mg nolva
Day 5-14 50mg clomid/20mg nolva

----------


## nsa

There are a few ways to run your pct. Pheedno is probably one of the most knowledgable when it comes to pct, you can check out his PCT thread in the pct forum. Or if you want to front load clomid, you can look around as there are numerous threads on front loading clomid along with nolvadex .

----------


## SwollSooner315

alright guys, thanks again!

----------


## CoRnErBaCk_BlItZ

just a quick q about milk thistle...
should it not be taking while ur on 10mg M1T as ive heard it interferes with protien synthesis...
but ive also heard u really need to run it while ur on M1t
any answers?

scanned the threads and couldn't see this anywhere..

----------


## Ceasar

Hey everyone, this is my first post but I've been reading the boards for about a year now. 
I had bought M1T before the ban back in December thinking I may try it out later on ( I still needed some more natural development) but I didn't buy the 4-AD. I believe I've hit a plateu in my natural development and hoped to start a cycle. Is there any other product I can use in place of the 4-AD with my first cycle? Is 4-AD still being sold? I want to minimize lethargy if possible.

Thanks!
Ceasar

----------


## RobbieG

My third M1t cycle, third dbol .

WWeek 1, Dbol 3 days at 20 mg ED to jumpstart
Weeks 1-4: 10 mg ED of M1t
Weeks 1-4: 1500 mg ED of hawthorne berry extract

ED: 150 gr. Carbs plus regular food.
+ with my creatine, I use juice containing 70 gr. sugar ... that´s not in my 150 gr ED carbs.

7 % bf

----------


## Bryan2

> just a quick q about milk thistle...
> should it not be taking while ur on 10mg M1T as ive heard it interferes with protien synthesis...
> but ive also heard u really need to run it while ur on M1t
> any answers?
> 
> scanned the threads and couldn't see this anywhere..



Doesnt interfere with protein synthesis take 1000mg during and post cycle when taking orals.

----------


## CoRnErBaCk_BlItZ

Thanks Bryan for clearing that up

----------


## nsa

Bump.

----------


## DevilsDeity

bump

----------


## hemidog66

bump for the 700

----------


## [email protected]@n 9

i think m1t works great...i gained 5 pounds a week and didnt use any post cycle except 6oxo and everything worked out fine for me.... good luck everyone

----------


## bignig

can anyone pm a site to buy nolva and clomid for an m1t cycle that is easy to buy from... thankss

----------


## bigordie

click on the word nolva or clomid or pct- whats your name about?

----------


## bignig

ok thanks also would it be good to stack the n02 supplment plus the ce2 supplement with these m1t'ss

----------


## bigordie

you can if you would like-make sure you are using 4ad and following the guidelines illustrated in this post. If i were you i would save them for pct. also no2 is a waste of money IMO

----------


## Stang Man

Can someone please PM or e-mail me ([email protected]) a source for some transdermal 4AD. I am from intensemuscle.com and recently found out about this site, and how much M1T information it has on it. 

Also, if using anabolic review's Clomi, at 70mL 35mg/mL, would you still follow the recommended dosages in the first post? You'd be buying quite a few bottles if this was the case. Same goes with with the "Tamox". I was planning on buying from anabolic review-research, but if there is a better source, feel free to e-mail it to me. IF ARR is the way to go, how should I adjust the dosages?

Thanks guys

Arron

----------


## nsa

Not allowed to ask for sources of banned substances.

You won't need more than 1 bottle (of clomid or nolvadex ) if you follow the doses in the orginal post.

----------


## alias

Just wanted to say thanks to nsa and all for their advice. I took m1t about 3 months ago per the guidlines on the first post. I weighed in before at 156 pds benching a max of 160. I have had weight issuses in the past ( not being able to gain it ) and at 6'1" its noticeable. After the cycle and pct with nova and clom.... I weighed in at 180 pds and now benching 215. I know you loose some of the weight during pct but I was quite happy to see I kept it. I also did a fat % test and Im at 11 % body fat. Is that good or bad? Im ready for my next cycle but I was just curious to see how long I should wait. I did the milk thistle and I dont drink.

Thanks again

alias

----------


## nsa

> Just wanted to say thanks to nsa and all for their advice. I took m1t about 3 months ago per the guidlines on the first post. I weighed in before at 156 pds benching a max of 160. I have had weight issuses in the past ( not being able to gain it ) and at 6'1" its noticeable. After the cycle and pct with nova and clom.... I weighed in at 180 pds and now benching 215. I know you loose some of the weight during pct but I was quite happy to see I kept it. I also did a fat % test and Im at 11 % body fat. Is that good or bad? Im ready for my next cycle but I was just curious to see how long I should wait. I did the milk thistle and I dont drink.
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> alias


Congrats on the gains.

11% BF isn't bad at all, in America 12% or less for men is considered athletic/healthy. Thats according to one of the associations i have a PT certification with, not sure which one though. lol

I would wait at least a month or two after your done with PCT, to cycle again. Are you planning on cycling m1t/4-ad again? Or something else?

----------


## alias

Thanks, I was just browsing this board along time ago, thank god I saw your post regarding m1t. I was thinking of doing the same cycle again at 10mg a day and the 4ad. Would u recommend upping the dose or do you think 10mg is still enough. I also read other posts regarding stacking m1t with deca and other products but Im not really sure I want to go on that route.... since I pretty much new to this, dont want to jump into anything I wouldnt be able to handle.

Thanks again


alias

----------


## nsa

You don't want to stack m1t with deca , that would be a really bad cycle IMO. I would start with 15 mg ED and if your not get results think about upping it to 20 mg ED. With your new weight your gonna need a little more to see the same results.

----------


## icedudez

nsa dnt mean to jack but after my sd cycle couple months after im thinking about doing m1t at 5mg ed for 2-4 weeks, will i gain much mass with this?how do u feel about that

----------


## nsa

M1t w/ 4-ad? Why not use 10 mg ED of m1t.

----------


## alias

Cool, Ill try the 15 mg and see if I get results.

Keep you posted


alias

----------


## icedudez

nah not with 4ad because i cant get ahold of it, hmm i was thinking 10mg ed is quite strong and powerful and i wouldnt be able 2 handle sides like lethargy n since i cant get a hold of 4-ad...

----------


## nsa

Honestly, if you can't get 4-ad or test i wouldn't run m1t. 5 mg ED isn't gonna do much.

----------


## icedudez

okay nsa ill take uradvice on that and just do SD again prob.

----------


## nsa

Thats your best bet IMO. M1t is rough without 4-ad or test...

----------


## icedudez

thanks nsa

----------


## nsa

> thanks nsa


No problem...

----------


## Marc Angelo

Need help here, sorry for the Stupi question though. I got Liquid Clomid and Nolva I am about to finish my cycle this week. But my syringes are on cc and I am not sure how do I do the 40mg of Nolvadex using a syringe with cc counts. Is .40cc 40 mg? thanks for the help. By the way I am as lethargic as I have never been. This is my second cycle of 20mg of M1T. The first cycle I got pills for my pct. thanmks for the info

----------


## nsa

1 ml = 1 cc

----------


## Marc Angelo

Thank you for the info. So I have one bottle of Amoxifen Citrate (nolva right) 
the bottel says : 50ml 20mg/ml I am supposed to take 40mg the first week, the syringe that I have is thin and goes all the way to 1cc (.1, .2....4, .5, .6, etc) I am assuming that the .4 is obviously NOT 40mg. Is that correct? 

Clomophene says 70ml 35mg/ml . Now if 40mg is 20cc then I need over 20 bottles of that stuff, Am I stupid? is there something I am not seeing? I ams os confused, sorry for that.

----------


## nsa

20 mg/ml and 35 mg/ml means that there are 20 mg per ml (cc) and 35 mg per ml (cc) respectively...

----------


## birsling

It's great to see that this post is still active, alive, and well. NSA, it is great to see you still sharing your knowledge. I have been inactive for a while on the boards, and battling my shoulder problems, but I am back now. 80% of strength, and started my M1T cycle again Monday to help me regain the old form. Thanks for all your help, and hopefully I will be back around to contribute.

----------


## icedudez

bump  :1hifu:  would 5mg ed of m1t give u strength gains similar or better than superdrol from everyone's knowledge?

----------


## icedudez

woops didnt mean that wee icon! lol

----------


## birsling

Hey NSA, I noticed that your PMs are shut off. I don't even have to ask you why, I completely understand. Do me a favor, if you remember me, get a hold of me privately via PM or email. Thanks!

----------


## birsling

> bump  would 5mg ed of m1t give u strength gains similar or better than superdrol from everyone's knowledge?


Ice, I am not as familiar with superdrol as others, but I will tell you that 5mg ed is not a significant amount of M1T. It will only allow you 1 pill per day, which makes it difficult to maintain your levels over a 24 hr period. Your best results come from taking 10-20mg ed (depending on your training/experience) in 2 equal doses approx. 12 hours apart. This way, your levels stay relatively constant throughout your cycle. Personally, I would not try M1T @ 5mg. Hope that helps.

----------


## icedudez

yo birsling cheers, i was only thinking about doing it because i only weigh just under 187-190lbs and i thnk the sides might be very harsh because i couldnt get 4-ad or test, as for ur theory on the dosing and not being in ur system,dont u get sum m1t in 10mg pills,maybe im wrong, but mine r 5mg

----------


## icedudez

i meant to say just under 200lbs at 187-190lbs

----------


## birsling

ice, you really need to get your hands on something like 4ad. You can do it without, but hopefully you are not prone to lethargy. 190lbs is plenty of weight to do 10mg ed, providing you are in good shape. Height, BMI? Yes, you can get 10mg pills, but I would cut them in half if I had them. Make sure you follow as closely as possible to the original post, NSA knows his stuff!

----------


## nsa

> would 5mg ed of m1t give u strength gains similar or better than superdrol from everyone's knowledge?


IMO it would be better to run a superdrol cycle of 20-30 mg ED than to run m1t at 5 mg ED. Sides would be less with SD and it wouldn't shut you down as hard, so you can still maintain your gains after the cycle. Provided your training and diet are adequate.

----------


## birsling

NSA, what is your opinion of 20mg SD vs. 10mg M1T cycle of the original post? I know that both you and I (and many others) have been very successful with the M1T cycle, that was the point that I was looking to convey to Ice.

----------


## nsa

I honestly can't compare the two from personal experience. I stopped using all anabolics last year. I have never used superdrol so i really can't say for sure. From what i understand the gains are not as dramatic on SD when compared to M1t. The gains from SD are dry mass, not wet gains like M1t. And SD doesn't shut down your HPTA as much as M1t does, so the gains are more easy to maintain after the cycle. And SD is less hepatoxic than M1t. I loved M1t, you just have to know how to counteract the sides from it.

----------


## icedudez

birsling - my height is like 6 ft and im 10% b/f 11% max

----------


## icedudez

y u stopped using anabolics nsa?

----------


## nsa

> y u stopped using anabolics nsa?


Because i don't need to be huge and im content with being 190-200 pounds at my height.

----------


## icedudez

do u just train to keep in shape now then n get as ripped as possible?

----------


## nsa

I just stay healthy and fit, always around 180-190 lbs. @ 7-8 % BF which isn't too small at 5'8". So im content with that, sometimes i go up to high 190's but thats usually when i have a few days of high sodium intake.

----------


## GQSuperman

to get the 1000th post on this thread. nice job NSA.

----------


## GQSuperman

missed it.

----------


## nsa

> missed it.


LOL sorry bro. I didn't even notice the post number, [email protected] when is this thread gonna be a sticky....

----------


## birsling

I would love to see this made a supplement forum sticky, but for now, let's give it a big bump!

----------


## suzuki99

honestly, why isnt this a sticky? why wasnt this made a sticky the day nsa posted it?

----------


## Taurus

jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj

----------


## flexin-rph

1,000 posts....unbelievable!

----------


## birsling

Just reading back for a little refresher. Thought I would give this a bump!

----------


## SwollSooner315

im on my final week of a 4 week m1t cycle....EXCELLENT gains and NO side effects at all....1-ad made me really lethargic...but this stuff gives me no problems...im taking 20mg a day right now...was taking 15mg a day....will be using clomid for pct

----------


## icedudez

> im on my final week of a 4 week m1t cycle....EXCELLENT gains and NO side effects at all....1-ad made me really lethargic...but this stuff gives me no problems...im taking 20mg a day right now...was taking 15mg a day....will be using clomid for pct


sounds good,what have ur gains been like?

----------


## nsa

> im on my final week of a 4 week m1t cycle....EXCELLENT gains and NO side effects at all....1-ad made me really lethargic...but this stuff gives me no problems...im taking 20mg a day right now...was taking 15mg a day....will be using clomid for pct


You should think of adding nolvadex to the clomid for PCT...

----------


## SwollSooner315

well ive been cutting for about the past 5 weeks....ive lost a good amount of fat and i decided to add in some m-1t to hopefully keep all my mass and maybe put a few pounds on....i was 245 when i started dieting...i got to 230lbs and now im back to 240! i dont know if its just water weight or what, but my strength has gone up and the pumps are crazy...i will get my bodyfat checked after i get done...and i cant believe i havent had any side effects at all...1-ad made me soooo tired and killed my sex drive...

----------


## SwollSooner315

haha my bad...im actually on week 3...one more week to go....quick question....for pct should i just stick to the pct outline on the first page? this last week i plan on going 25mg a day, from 20mg this week....thanks

----------


## nsa

PCT in the first post is pretty standard for frontloading PCT, even for most long cycles of injectables. Do that or you could do 100 mg of clomid and 20 mg of nolvadex ED for PCT, depending on how you tolerate clomid.

----------


## gymnutt

I'm pretty new here and have a question which I hope is not redundant, I called VPX and got an answer I wasn't happy with, I did search the threads and did see a similar question set forth by "Reelmuscle" on this thread but wanted more clarity. Do any of you know how long M1T can be tested in blood and urine and what is the 1/2 life in blood if someone is willing to spend the money for a pricey test. If anyone has an answer I would be very appreciative, the stakes are very high on my end. Peace

----------


## nsa

Certain steroids , like THG, were known as designer steroids that were 'undetectable' but this was only because the testers didn't know what metabolites to test for. Truth is you can test for any steroid you want as long as you know what your testing for. I don't exactly know what the half-life is for m1t (because its not something tested much) but its not very long as its an oral methylated hormone, it would be safe to say it would be out of your system within a few days...

----------


## gymnutt

Thank you sir and I welcome input from any others.

----------


## nsa

> Thank you sir and I welcome input from any others.


Just curious, what did VPX tell you?

----------


## C_Bino

NSA...I have 10mg capsules...Should i take them all at once ED
or spread it out throughout the day. Plannin to take 3 per day..,.

thanks

----------


## nsa

> NSA...I have 10mg capsules...Should i take them all at once ED
> or spread it out throughout the day. Plannin to take 3 per day..,.
> 
> thanks


What r your stats? 30 mg of M1T is alot and most of the time not necessary...

----------


## icedudez

just to verify thats a 3week pct u hav posted on page 1...this is what im doing for SD...

----------


## nsa

> just to verify thats a 3week pct u hav posted on page 1...this is what im doing for SD...


Yes its 3 weeks and its pretty standard for most cycles...

----------


## C_Bino

> What r your stats? 30 mg of M1T is alot and most of the time not necessary...


I am 5'9" or 5'10" and 202 lbs...BF% is approx 15.
What do you suggest?

Thanks again...

----------


## nsa

How many cycles of M1T have you run? And what other cycles have you run if you've run any?

----------


## C_Bino

I have never run another cycle b4. Just purely natural as of now, the most I have done is creatine which I found didnt have much of an impact.

----------


## Positive

I"m 6ft, 245lbs, body fat is low to medium.

Should I still use the same dosages that were recommended on the first page? Which were:

10mg ED of M1t
400mg ED of 4ad
1500mg of Hawthorne BE

*Or because of my size should I up the dosage?*

*Also, I just got some Nolvadex and Milk thistle. Do I need to take Clomid? I didn't respond very well to it before. Is there anything else I can take instead of the Clomid?*

----------


## C_Bino

Also, what would the result be if I took Clomid alone and no Nolva?

----------


## nsa

> I have never run another cycle b4. Just purely natural as of now, the most I have done is creatine which I found didnt have much of an impact.


Then there is no way you need 30 mg of M1T for your first cycle. Stick between 10-20 mg ED...

----------


## Marc Angelo

I was wondering if one can use "Off cycle" by fizogen for the PCT of M1T 20mg a day? this is my second cycle. I did the liquid Nolva and clomi, but I would prefer the pills or a substitude if ther eis one. thanks
Marc

----------


## nsa

> I was wondering if one can use "Off cycle" by fizogen for the PCT of M1T 20mg a day? this is my second cycle. I did the liquid Nolva and clomi, but I would prefer the pills or a substitude if ther eis one. thanks
> Marc


Then get pill form clomid or nolvadex . Off cycle by Fizogen will not cut it IMO.

----------


## gymnutt

> Just curious, what did VPX tell you?



I have an immense respect for VPX products and the time and money put into their testing and development. However, I didn't feel the response given to me was based on 1st hand information, A gentlemen in customer support told me 8 hours for urine/blood, wasn't sure about blood 1/2 life, and could provide few details. I don't want to beat a dead horse and sure don't wan't to piss anyone off as a new member; Just curious how long it can be tested for in blood or urine, I've got a lot on the line. Thanks again.

----------


## kingspade213

> If any body knows where to get some M1-T please PM me.


asking for a source, eh?

----------


## nsa

> If any body knows where to get some M1-T please PM me.


EDIT your post before someone has to do it for you... NO ASKING FOR SOURCES FOR BANNED SUBSTANCES...  :No No:

----------


## icedudez

ive read so much about m1t being shit to keep gains from...what % of gains do you normally keep, about 50% with nolva/clomid/creatine/trib/milk thistle & if u increased ur cals even during pct? i have some and want to try it maybe in a few months but i really not sure about it...

----------


## nsa

I kept most of my gains, i'd say like 80-90%. Pretty much only losing water weight when i was in PCT. But you have to have [email protected] good training and diet to retain most of your gains. If either is off your gonna lose more of your gains...

----------


## icedudez

> I kept most of my gains, i'd say like 80-90%. Pretty much only losing water weight when i was in PCT. But you have to have [email protected] good training and diet to retain most of your gains. If either is off your gonna lose more of your gains...


did u train hard? like as hard as when on cycle during ur m1t pct? what kinda gains did u make ( strength n size )?...i would look through the thread but theres so damn much to look thru i thopught id ask,lol...

----------


## icedudez

i read thru the 1st few pages then it started on abuot 1ad n the like n my eyes started going getting tired so i stopped,lol.

----------


## icedudez

sorry also can i take anything to retain less water apart from keeping sodium intake to a minimum?

----------


## C_Bino

bump

----------


## Positive

*NSA,*  [U]

I"m 6ft, 245lbs, body fat is low to medium.

Should I still use the same dosages that were recommended on the first page? Which were:

10mg ED of M1t
400mg ED of 4ad
1500mg of Hawthorne BE

Or because of my size should I up the dosage?

Also, I just got some Nolvadex and Milk thistle. Do I need to take Clomid? I didn't respond very well to it before. Is there anything else I can take instead of the Clomid?

----------


## nsa

I would up the dose to 15-20 mg ED. If you can't handle clomid, i guess you could use tribulus, but clomid would be much better if you can handle it. You could always try using 100 mg of clomid for 3 weeks instead of front loading it, you might tolerate it better...

----------


## SwollSooner315

ok i feel 100% and im still getting gains....im thinking about extending my cycle to 5 weeks....im at the end of week 4 right now....do you guys think this would be benefical at all? and i was thinking of taking 6-oxo (i have 2 bottles i got for cheap)for the last week of this cycle and starting novla/clomid at the end. any thoughts?

----------


## nsa

I wouldn't extend it, but i top out around the beginning of the fourth week of m1t.

----------


## SwollSooner315

sooo do you think it would be alright if im still gaining?

----------


## nsa

It could be beneficial. I dunno if it will be for sure though.

----------


## birsling

I would think that you need to start to think about your liver when going longer with orals. Your call bro, especially if you are still growing at a good rate

----------


## Natural1

What are the effects of running m1t by itself, with pct ect but just excluding the 4-derm. I am not trying to run this i am just curious to the effects of it besides being insanely lethargic.

----------


## Darkness

No effects at all, I ran M1T by it self last month, got close to 10lbs gain and because this is my 3rd M1T cycle I wasnt lethargic at all, which I could've done it with 4-ad because the gains are much easier to keep that way.

----------


## Natural1

you say the gains are easier to keep with the 4ad or without? So if Im understanding right the 4ad is really only for lethargy? Also if im correct the m1t doesnt aromatize so in terms of gyno its safer to do without right?

----------


## Darkness

Yeah with 4ad you'll get better gains and is easier to keep.

----------


## Natural1

i understand better gains but why are they easier to keep?

----------


## ScreaM

how easy is it to still get this? Im looking on the web, and it looks like all of its discontinued, and help? This looks real good, plz pm me with any info

Thanks

----------


## Natural1

> how easy is it to still get this? Im looking on the web, and it looks like all of its discontinued, and help? This looks real good, plz pm me with any info
> 
> Thanks


You can no longer get it via internet, well not legally, it has been banned and is now considered illegal, just as steroids are.

----------


## Darkness

> i understand better gains but why are they easier to keep?


Dude, the answers are all in this same thread.

----------


## ScreaM

so is this still worth persueing? Im not asking for any links or suppliers, but can someone help me here, manybe with a hint? lol

----------


## Natural1

You can pursue all you want nobody is stopping you from that but just keep in mind that it is illegal now, and is no longer on any supplement sites.

----------


## nsa

> so is this still worth persueing? Im not asking for any links or suppliers, but can someone help me here, manybe with a hint? lol


Get injectable testosterone . 4-ad is not in production anymore, no reason to make a product that is inferior to test when they are both illegal.

----------


## ScreaM

Thats a good point, thanks. test c or p, what do you think?

----------


## nsa

Depends. I prefer prop, but if its your first time go with something more newbie friendly like e or c...

----------


## Natural1

NSA i know its in here somewhere but cant seem to find exact answer, besides being lethargic, is excluding 4ad from cycle doing any harm.

----------


## nsa

Loss of libido and any other low testosterone level sides...

----------


## ScreaM

nsa, can you pm me with some info on test c and e, I know the basics, but like a beginning cycle, stacked with what? thanks

----------


## nsa

I don't have PM's enabled because when i do enable them i get flooded with PM's. Go to the main site, they have all the info you need on those compounds and they have cycles listed too. www.steroid.com

----------


## ItalianFlex

nsa long time no talk man....can i still get m1t anywhere??if so where? thanks man

----------


## frankrom

Thats all i can say... i've been researching for information like this for a week and i found it all in 1 spot! nsa your post is amazing i can't thank you enough for this great information...

However i am left with a few questions

I was told to take milk thistle AND Hawthorne Berry WHILE on the cycle... not as a PCT. What what do you think about that? and what were your reasons to take them as a PCT not during the 4 weeks ON?

and what liver protection supplement are you taking? i was recommend to Liv 52, i couldn't find any if your post.

Thanks again and i hope someone can answer this question even if its not nsa

Frank

----------


## nsa

> Thats all i can say... i've been researching for information like this for a week and i found it all in 1 spot! nsa your post is amazing i can't thank you enough for this great information...
> 
> However i am left with a few questions
> 
> I was told to take milk thistle AND Hawthorne Berry WHILE on the cycle... not as a PCT. What what do you think about that? and what were your reasons to take them as a PCT not during the 4 weeks ON?
> 
> and what liver protection supplement are you taking? i was recommend to Liv 52, i couldn't find any if your post.
> 
> Thanks again and i hope someone can answer this question even if its not nsa
> ...



Milk thistle and hawthorne berry are good on cycle. I always said to take hawthorne berry during the cycle and the only reason i didn't say to take milk thistle during the cycle is because at the time some studies showed that it might hinder gains, but i think its best to take both while on cycle. Milk thistle is the best liver protectant there is, it actually has been shown in studies to help regenerate hepatic cells in the liver...

----------


## frankrom

Hmm i'm not sure if i understood you 100%...

So are you saying take Milk thistle and hawthorne berry while you are ON THE CYCLE and as a pct? Thats what i understood from the message, i just want to clearify it with you...

Oh and if i should be taking Milk Thistle during the cycle how much?

And what about Clomid should that only be taking PCT?

Thanks nsa for your quick reponse

----------


## nsa

> Hmm i'm not sure if i understood you 100%...
> 
> So are you saying take Milk thistle and hawthorne berry while you are ON THE CYCLE and as a pct? Thats what i understood from the message, i just want to clearify it with you... 
> 
> *BOTH ON CYCLE AND ONLY MILK THISTLE DURING PCT*
> 
> Oh and if i should be taking Milk Thistle during the cycle how much?
> 
> *500 MG - 1000 GRAM ED*
> ...


Suggestions in caps and bold...

----------


## frankrom

So you think milk thisle is enough for the liver ? Someone told me to take liv 52 but i'll stick to what you said...

Thanks all my questions are answered... You should have posted your mailing address we would have randomly sent checks to your hosue for your help!

Now all i gotta do is find who can sell me some hawthorne berry, clomid, Nolvadex ! and i'm ready to start my cycle baby! oh yeah thanks...

p.s. i know someone said dont ask for address to websites that sell that stuff... but i have too, i had trouble finding any websites that will sell me... hawthorne berry, clomid, Nolvadex, i live in canada... anyone know any websits or whatever where i can get these 3, i'd greatly appericate it. (i hope me asking doesn't cause a problem none of these are illegal to my knowledage so...)

Thanks again nsa, cheers!

----------


## Taurus

some people suggest 20mg of nolv ed (up until end of pct), and you say nolv only during pct? 

whats the difference? which one would be better for superdrol?

----------


## nsa

> some people suggest 20mg of nolv ed (up until end of pct), and you say nolv only during pct? 
> 
> whats the difference? which one would be better for superdrol?


You don't need nolvadex during the cycle, unless your using a ridiculous daily dose of 4-ad/test. You don't need nolvadex during a SD only cycle, because it doesn't convert to estrogen. 

Please keep all superdrol questions out of this thread. This is all about M1T, not superdrol.

----------


## icedudez

> You don't need nolvadex during the cycle, unless your using a ridiculous daily dose of 4-ad/test. You don't need nolvadex during a SD only cycle, because it doesn't convert to estrogen. 
> 
> Please keep all superdrol questions out of this thread. This is all about M1T, not superdrol.


lol its turned into a bit of a free for all...  :LOL:

----------


## Natural1

What do you think about this, im on 8th day of m1t, should i wait until finished with it to start some test cyp or can i just basically use the m1t as a jumpstart?

----------


## nsa

> What do you think about this, im on 8th day of m1t, should i wait until finished with it to start some test cyp or can i just basically use the m1t as a jumpstart?


You should start with the cypionate as soon as possible if you want to use m1t as a kickstarter. Your a little late, but can still make it work if you start the cypionate like tonight or tomorow.

----------


## C_Bino

Hey this was a great read. I started an M1t cycle after reading it and have been fairly happy with the results. Strength gains have not been huge but noticeable. I have been on for about 16 days so almost two weeks left and im up 10lbs in lbm. My abs have even started to show better than they were although I have noticed some bloating in my abdominal region.

----------


## Natural1

> You should start with the cypionate as soon as possible if you want to use m1t as a kickstarter. Your a little late, but can still make it work if you start the cypionate like tonight or tomorow.


Yeah i know im a little late i really didnt plan on the cyp but things came up so i decided to get some do you think that if i started by this weekend i would be fine or just wait till im done with m1t and take cyp, i just really dont wanna have to pct twice when i can have it once, I am only taking a small dose 10mg/day and another question, should i still be taking the 4ad once the cyp is started or not? Really no reason for it right.

----------


## nsa

> Yeah i know im a little late i really didnt plan on the cyp but things came up so i decided to get some do you think that if i started by this weekend i would be fine or just wait till im done with m1t and take cyp, i just really dont wanna have to pct twice when i can have it once, I am only taking a small dose 10mg/day and another question, should i still be taking the 4ad once the cyp is started or not? Really no reason for it right.


I said start the cyp as soon as possible. If you start the cyp at the end of the m1t cycle, your doing it all wrong. Cyp takes a few weeks (about 3) to kick in. So like i originally said, start it as soon as possible. BTW, do yourself a favor and learn everything you can about the compounds your using...

----------


## Natural1

> I said start the cyp as soon as possible. If you start the cyp at the end of the m1t cycle, your doing it all wrong. Cyp takes a few weeks (about 3) to kick in. So like i originally said, start it as soon as possible. BTW, do yourself a favor and learn everything you can about the compounds your using...


Yeah I understood completely when you said take it asap, its just that i dont have the cyp yet (not until saturday), so i was wondering if that is too late to start by then, and if i should just complete my m1t cycle and pct and then just hold off on the cyp for a while until i am ready for my next cycle.

----------


## nsa

> Yeah I understood completely when you said take it asap, its just that i dont have the cyp yet (not until saturday), so i was wondering if that is too late to start by then, and if i should just complete my m1t cycle and pct and then just hold off on the cyp for a while until i am ready for my next cycle.


Your call on that. But i would start it as soon as you get it, you might miss the perfect transition by a few days, but i wouldn't go right back into a cycle just after finishing pct from another cycle...

----------


## Natural1

Oh yeah i didnt mean it like that, i meant just finish it and hold off for a few months until i am ready for my next cycle.
-and as for the 4ad that would serve no purpose, if i tooke the cyp correct.

----------


## ItalianFlex

Is there somewhere I can still buy it?? Let me know the stuff is awesome...thanks

----------


## frankrom

Ok i heard some more information about M1T and CLOMID as i furthered my study on this topic...

I heard some people take CLOMID 2-3 WEEKS BEFORE they end their cycle. They said the point of this was to get the CLOMID into the blood so its starts working by the time the cycle ends, to start test regeneration in their body so when they are off its already starting to take effect oppose to taking it when you finish your cycle and waiting a week or 2 for it to start.

What do you guys think of this?

Thanks guys.

----------


## icedudez

if u can stack max lmg and superdrol does that mean u can stack max lmg |& m1t and if so wat dou thnk the effects of this wud be, gd or bad...

----------


## nsa

Yes, you can stack max lmg with m1t...

----------


## Darkness

OK for all of you newbs, M1T is illegal in the US, *so stop asking for where to buy it*on a public board, although its legal in other countries so find your source, foreing or domestic.

----------


## frankrom

Ok for those of us who were not asking stupid questions...

If anyone here has the answer to my question above about... taking the CLOMID 2-3 weeks before to jump start the test regeneration i'd GREATLY appericate it.

NSA i know you have an answer  :Smilie: 

Thanks again

----------


## nsa

> Ok for those of us who were not asking stupid questions...
> 
> If anyone here has the answer to my question above about... taking the CLOMID 2-3 weeks before to jump start the test regeneration i'd GREATLY appericate it.
> 
> NSA i know you have an answer 
> 
> Thanks again


2-3 weeks before what? When in regards to the cycle are you talking about?

----------


## darealest

im doing this cycle at 20mg each day. Ive been on a high calorie diet and have put on about 15 lbs after i cut this weight off prior. I am in the final week of my 4th week cycle and i honestly feel that i have experienced the most gains etc in the final week of my cycles.

Would it be super unsafe to continue my cycle beyond 4 weeks? say like 5 weeks? im most likely going to end it this week and start pct monday, but if i took enough milk thistle during an extra say 1week, 2weeks would it really be that bad?

I know recommened is 4 weeks, but from my experience my gains and pumps have been the best in the final week

(PS I searched all over without a proper response)

and right now i am

6'2 220 lbs (need to reweigh myself at then end of this cycle but that was as of the third week) im about 13% BF.

----------


## nsa

It's not too bad for you, just the little extra hepatoxicity fopr however longer you continue taking it. I've seen cycles up to 6 weeks of it. Just keep taking the milk thistle...

----------


## darealest

ok perfect thanks alot i think im gonna continue with 6 weeks. i have almost enough pills for the full 6 weeks just short by 4 days worth, (of 20mg) but since i take 20 mg a day anyways in week 6 the final week i will just cut 1 pill out of 4 of the days to 10mgs a day. Unless i decide to buy another bottle right away.

thanks for the help.

----------


## icedudez

> ok perfect thanks alot i think im gonna continue with 6 weeks. i have almost enough pills for the full 6 weeks just short by 4 days worth, (of 20mg) but since i take 20 mg a day anyways in week 6 the final week i will just cut 1 pill out of 4 of the days to 10mgs a day. Unless i decide to buy another bottle right away.
> 
> thanks for the help.
> 
> i love m1t lol.


 why'd you love it so much, do u keep ur gains previously? have u tried any other ph's, im thinking about trying m1t but im a little scared,lol

----------


## frankrom

> 2-3 weeks before what? When in regards to the cycle are you talking about?


NSA let me clearify my question... i was asking should i take the CLOMID 2-3 weeks BEFORE THE END of the cycle (BEFORE i start the PCT)

So what i'm saying is... Should i take the clomid 1-2 weeks IN MY CYCLE ? to kind of jump start my test reproduction?

Hopefulyl that clearifies it...

Thanks nsa

----------


## WarGodAchilles

Can you stack M1T with Anabolic Steroids such as Test. Enathate or other Testesterone?

----------


## nsa

> NSA let me clearify my question... i was asking should i take the CLOMID 2-3 weeks BEFORE THE END of the cycle (BEFORE i start the PCT)
> 
> So what i'm saying is... Should i take the clomid 1-2 weeks IN MY CYCLE ? to kind of jump start my test reproduction?
> 
> Hopefulyl that clearifies it...
> 
> Thanks nsa


No you shouldn't. Do it the way it is layed out in the original post. Clomid isn't very effective while endogenous hormones are still present in your system.

----------


## nsa

> Can you stack M1T with Anabolic Steroids such as Test. Enathate or other Testesterone?


Yes, you can. M1T and test prop is an awesome 4 week cycle...

----------


## icedudez

> Yes, you can. M1T and test prop is an awesome 4 week cycle...


what kinda gains could 1 expect from a cycle like this? you did this cycle or was it test cyp? how did u find it? whats the best thing i could use to combat hairloss from m1t?

----------


## nsa

> what kinda gains could 1 expect from a cycle like this? you did this cycle or was it test cyp? how did u find it? whats the best thing i could use to combat hairloss from m1t?


You could gain 15-20 pounds if your diet and training are good. I did it, but with other compounds in there so its unfair to say what my gains were.Propecia for hairloss...

----------


## icedudez

is propecia in pill form? is it strong enuff, should i start taking it before a cycle, if so how long b4, thanks nsa...

----------


## nsa

> is propecia in pill form? is it strong enuff, should i start taking it before a cycle, if so how long b4, thanks nsa...


Ask these questions outside of this thread and i will answer them. This thread is for m1t questions...

----------


## nsa

Bump for newbs...

----------


## Red Monster

nice thread

----------


## Bleche

It has been around 6 months since I did a cycle of M1T, I will let you all know how it goes... of the 15 lbs I gained last time I kept the majority of it (probably 12 lbs) by following the guidelines set in the first post. DON'T QUESTION THEM! A massive thanks goes out to all of you that put forth the time to set up such a great cycle so we don't have to experiment and lose possible gains.

I have a question about the clomix / nolva.. does anybody know the shelf life? I still have enough for a cycle but the bottles are 6+ months old. They haven't gotten hot or anything, room temp the whole time.. 

Another question, everybody always recommends a minimum of a gram per pound of protein every day, I was curious if you recommend more while taking M1T. Basically I would like to know the protein/carb/fat ratios you guys use in your diets while on cycle and off so I can better measure the changes I need to make to my diet.

----------


## det0nate

if one takes chysin with his m1t would that not prevent the need of useing clomid and nolva?

----------


## icedudez

okay im doing a sust250 cycle for 10 weeks now after my last shot i will be waiting 3 weeks before starting pct, i was wondering,since i have m1t kickin' abouit shud or cud i use it for those 3weeks before pct?

----------


## Bryan2

> okay im doing a sust250 cycle for 10 weeks now after my last shot i will be waiting 3 weeks before starting pct, i was wondering,since i have m1t kickin' abouit shud or cud i use it for those 3weeks before pct?



Well technically you could for some extra gains but it isnt going to be worth it in the end becasue tou will be super shutdown for PCT and might end up having to run an even longer PCT to be fully recovered and maybe loose more gains during PCT.


Get another oral if possible to transition you like winny or even dbol

----------


## icedudez

> Well technically you could for some extra gains but it isnt going to be worth it in the end becasue tou will be super shutdown for PCT and might end up having to run an even longer PCT to be fully recovered and maybe loose more gains during PCT.
> 
> 
> Get another oral if possible to transition you like winny or even dbol


what about g0ing for superdrol through those 3 weeks before pct?

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## Bryan2

superdrol isnt too supressive to the endocrine system but it sucks for cholesterol which is another reason to avoid it at the end of a cycle 

but SD over M1T at the end of a cycle would be better.

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## PlimoMan

> PCT:
> Weeks 5-8: 40 mg ED of Nolvadex for the first two weeks, Then down to 20 mg ED of Nolvadex
> Weeks 5-8: Clomid Therapy, 300 mg of clomid first day, 100 mg of clomid next 10 days, 50 mg of clomid for final 10 days of clomid therapy.
> Weeks 5-8: Milk Thistle 1000 mg of milk thistle ED


just a little question and maybe you can add this to the first post for all others, i tried to serach through this thread but there is too many replies.

For the PCT, do you take it all at once or spreadit through the day? Like the Novadex, do you take 20mg at about 8am then 20mg at 2pm? And the others too.

BTW good post nsa!

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## Bryan2

your avatar scares the shit outta me!!!

once per day is fine by the way

----------


## PlimoMan

> your avatar scares the shit outta me!!!
> 
> once per day is fine by the way


haha, its my missing cat!

Ok, does it matter when I take it? I was going to take it in the AM because im not back home till about 5pm.

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## ManOnSwole

Was wondering if you could get away with just clomid for PCT on M1t. Running your 300/100/50 split. After reading different posts I am confused, in older posts people championed novla, and now it seems that clomid is the prefered PCT product. Are both necessary?

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## JarekN

I live in Toronto, Canada and I was able to get M1T, any suggestions as to where I get get 4AD, Nolvadex and Clomid Therapy. Please PM me or post in this thread...

THANX

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## bulldawg_28

You can get nolva and clomid from Ar-r .

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## JarekN

I am having problems getting 4AD, but I can get Test (injections) what amount should I get (I'll take it twice a week.)

Thanks for all your help... 

I've been going over the nutrition forum... I must say that that is the hardest part of this whole thing... going to the gym and working out is one thing, but trying to shove the RIGHT food into your system is even harder... not to mention not being able to have that McDonalds, ice cream, cake and the list goes on  :Frown: 

And congrats to all of you who have dedicated your life to staying healthy and following this strict life style... I hope it will get easier for me as time goes...

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## Dark Spivey

I tried the stuff. Lost my hunger for all foods.(Without a good diet a supplement is worthless). Didnt like it at all. I think 1AD is a much better bet. I stayed hungry and had better gains.

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## BaseballStar

After getting off a 4-week cycle of M1T and Test-prop can you get away with running just Clomid and Milk Thistle for the PCT. Is it neccessary to run the Nolvadex also. Need quick replies.

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## darealest

first m1t went ok.

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## SpooledSrt

Anyone want to help me out and tell me which site/s all these products are? 

I am having no luck whatsoever getting these products. I would really appreciate it if someone would help me out. Thank you

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## Bryan2

They are all illegal anabolic steroids now sorry

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## joe57087

im thinking of doing a cycle of m1t
im 20 been lifting for a good6 or 7 years now
i have taken numerous creatines, no2s, test boosters, but i want to take my body building to the next level.
i dont plan on taking huge doses 5 ...10 mgs at the most and see how it goes during the first week and half. i have done my research on this product but something i am not particularly familiar with is the pct. from what i have read i know what to take, and how much, and what they do. but where could i get the best information on these products and where can i get them. i do not live on my own and i would like to keep what im doing on the DL. can i get these products anywhere else besides being sent to the house?

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## dmoney187

I jus had a question, i am on a 2 week cycle of m1t and am takin 20 mg a day.
I was wondering should i eat anythin and everything or should i have a very good diet.

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## Machin3

IF you eat anything and everything you will gain very sloppy weight. I would stick to a good diet. One that suits the goal you are trying to achieve.

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## Papi93

I would say put in Tongkat Ali as a replacement for tribulus to help prevent testicular atrophy.

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## DevilsDeity

bump

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## darknight31

Ok im new to this site and ive been thinking of taking m1t and i sat here and read this forum for about 3 hours. And I was wondering what the all the side effects are ex. hairloss,testosterone levels ,anything
and i just wanted to take m1t and milk thistle thats all for 4 weeks and go straight off of it and go back on creatine ,would that be bad for my liver and would i get any gains off of that?

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## Milky87

Yes it will be bad for you liver, but not in the way that you will need dialysis (or is that for the kidneys?).

Yes you will gain from it. Just remember that you will need a PCT

----------


## Joeblo21

Hey,
Just wanted to share my experience with M1T. I did 2 weeks on 2 weeks off, with 10mg the first week and 20mg the second week each time, this was done for a month and a half ( 2 on + 2 off + 2 on). I ran PCT in between the cycles with nolva. Over the entire time I went from 170 to 205. I'm a week into full PCT and have only lost a pound or two. I feel pretty hard and lost a percent or two of body fat (I was already fairly lean, around 11%) Strength gains were good and jumped up in weights every few sessions (60 on my bench, and 80 on my squat). I did get some pretty severe sides, lethargy was unbearable at time, I was really itchy; presumably from elevated liver enzymes, lots of head aches and nose bleeds, my bp went from 115/70 to 135/87 and my HR jumped 11 BPM, neither has dropped significantly, back constantly ached and had terrible shin pumps from just walking, either it was the M1T or all the sides but I was very irritable for days at a time, worst of all, now when I breathe heavily I get a whistle in my throat and I have a terrible cough, and now have some sort of deposit in my abdominal cavity (could be unrelated). Good thing was my sex drive didn't decrease...I guess. For those considering I would warn against it, it is a brutal product with very harsh sides and i'm inclined to say the gains weren't worth it, I have some more but its probably going in the toilet.
Cheers and Be Safe,
Joe

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## DevilsDeity

bump

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## jimboboway

heyyyy guys this is a greatt thread, the only thing is its sooo DAMN long lol can be a book. ok i read that since m1t does not convert to estrogen u dont need a pct unless ur takin m1t with a test. So basically if im just running a 3 week cycle just on m1t would a pct be useless????if i dont take a pct on this cycle will i retain all of my gains except the water?? or is pct required.

Also what do you ppl think is more effective. 
Sets of 10 reps of a certain weight
same amount of sets just 3-6 reps of a higher weight??

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## DeBaie

COST OF THIS CYCLE - PCT
I thought this would be usefull with regards to this post, its up to NSA whether or not he wanted to add it to the front. I am just going to go through the costs of what is recquired here to run this cycle 4/4.
Not an M1T user, just reading up , and considered the following.

As far as I got now, I have calculated the PCT without shipping/handling and tax. Its a rought estimate. The costs you pay here really are well worth it.

_The PCT_
Typical bottle of _Clomid Therapy_ comes with 70mL, and 35mg /ml @ $45.
300mg for the first day (8.6ml)
100mg ED for 10 days (2.86ml /ED for 10 days = 20.86mL)
50mg for last 10 days (1.43ml /ED for 10 days = 14.30mL)
In the 4 weeks of your PCT, your using 12.89 mL ~ 18.4% of bottle.
18.4% of 45$ = *$8.28* 

Typical bottle of _Tamox_ comes with 50mL, and 20mg /ml @ $45.
40mg ED for the first two weeks (2mL /ED for 14 days = 28mL)
20mg ED for the last two weeks(1ml /ED for 14 days = 14mL)
In the 4 weeks of your PCT, your using 42mL ~ 93.3% of bottle.
93.3% of 45$ = *$42*

Typical bottle of _Milk Thistle_ comes with 60caps-180caps, and 500mg of Milk Thistle Extract(80% Silymarin) per cap @ 23.95$ (180 caps=90000mg)
1000mg ED for the four weeks (1000mg /ED for 28 days = 28000mg)
In the 4 weeks of your PCT, your using 56caps ~ 31.1% of bottle.
31.1% of 23.95$ = *$7.45*

*Cost of PCT per cycle: $57.73*


If this is wrong, let me know.

I just thought knowing how much the PCT was very important as its the key to it all. Not a lot of people are concerned with it. Just think 60$ every other 4 weeks to keep your gears in check, cant go wrong with that.

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## DeBaie

> going to be doing another m1t cycle soon.
> 
> In the past i have never had access to 4ad or any form of test and i have made good gains off just m1t on a big bulking diet.(and following this cycle)
> 
> I now was finally able to get my hands on some 4ad, only thing is its not transdermal, they are pills, 250mg a shot, bottle says 2-3 pills, i am gonna go with 3 will this be equivalent or close to the transdermal?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> at least if its not some form of test is better then nothing.l


400-600mg 4ad (transdermally) (1500mg orally) a day

----------


## DeBaie

As well, Joeblo21, why dont you share with us your PCT.
That way we can see exactly why you were having such problems.

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## The Natural

GOOD info! I will try M1T one day!  :Smilie:

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## Jay_notellin

Isnt M1-T banned. If yes, what is a suitable replacement? MM?

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## UpstateTank

yup its banned

the strongs supps out now are sd, mm, pp etc

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## suzuki99

this stuff is delish, i cant wait to run m1t again

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## eyecandy_44

> Bump for newbies...



such good info on this thread! thanks all!

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## ekul1-1

Hey  :2dunce: 
Im interested in taking a cycle of m1t's, but im a little worried about the growth stunting ive heard about.

Im 18yo, 145 lbs, 5'8. 

Im not sure if im completely done growing, and id like to get all the height i can get.

Is there actually a growth stunting side effect? If so, can i do/take something to prevent this? 

thanks.


also, is it absolutely necessary to take Nolvadex and Clomid Therapy?.... i was thinking of just taking milk thistle, and then for my PCT taking some sort of testosterone ... does that sound good? any suggestions?

----------


## matt50

> Hey 
> Im interested in taking a cycle of m1t's, but im a little worried about the growth stunting ive heard about.
> 
> Im 18yo, 145 lbs, 5'8. 
> 
> Im not sure if im completely done growing, and id like to get all the height i can get.
> 
> Is there actually a growth stunting side effect? If so, can i do/take something to prevent this? 
> 
> ...



do not take any steroid /pro hormone till at least 22 y/o

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## UpstateTank

> Hey 
> Im interested in taking a cycle of m1t's, but im a little worried about the growth stunting ive heard about.
> 
> Im 18yo, 145 lbs, 5'8. 
> 
> Im not sure if im completely done growing, and id like to get all the height i can get.
> 
> Is there actually a growth stunting side effect? If so, can i do/take something to prevent this? 
> 
> ...


1. You're too young
2. Its apparent by your post you dont know a thing about M1T
3. You're not ready for M1T at 145lbs
4. You need to hit up the diet forum and get a set diet, also hit up the workout forum and get a set workout.
5. Lastly all the steroids in the world wont save you if your diet isnt in check.

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## Bradly1234

I have taken 2 cycles of ph's, one of 1-ad and one m1t useing tamox(nov) hawthorn and milk thistle for pct, no clomid.

kept all my lbm gains which were 11 lbs for 1-ad and 9lbs for m1t.  :Wink/Grin:  


m1t deff makes you retain a good amount in water. 

this is prob my natural high test levels but i had no use for clomid just cost me more $$

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## K.Biz

> I have taken 2 cycles of ph's, one of 1-ad and one m1t useing tamox(nov) hawthorn and milk thistle for pct, no clomid.
> 
> kept all my lbm gains which were 11 lbs for 1-ad and 9lbs for m1t.  
> 
> 
> m1t deff makes you retain a good amount in water. 
> 
> this is prob my natural high test levels but i had no use for clomid just cost me more $$


why did u bump this up?  : 893Buttkick Thumb:

----------


## Bradly1234

i dident bump it, i just posted it. ?

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## number twelve

bump this should be a sticky

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## LivingToBeBig

can find M1T out there quite easily but what about 4AD no where to be found except Advanced Muscle Science 4AD (60 Capsules) is this still good to stack or is there now something else to stack with it? would Myogenx be enough on it to reduce the sides and help keep your test levels up on such a supresive compound?

----------


## Stoneco|d

Alright i read a LOT of stuff about M1T and i am confused. I am on week 2 on M1T. I started with 10mg for 1st week and i am upping the dosage on my 2nd week. I tried 2 and 3. I think 3 might be too much so i am only taking 20mg a day. I have gained 8 lbs in a week and my strength is amazing. I do take milk thistle twice a day, that is 500mg (not sure if that is enough). I eat a LOT and drink a lot of water. I am 6 foot, 215lbs, 23 yrs old.

Now this is what bothers me. I read here that PCT is a MUST. The place where i got M1T(andro technologies btw if it makes a difference) told me to take it once a day(10mg) and do 2 weeks on M1T then 2 weeks off. Also drink lots of water and eat a lot. I told him if i need Nolvdex and he's like you don't need it with this. He's like if you get any side effects just stop M1T and take it after a few weeks. He said your worrying too much and just save your money. 

So my question is if it's absolutely necessary or not to get Nolvadex ? I love the results, really. On my benching, i do 315 4 times then 315 2 times on my 2nd set then i do as much as i can with 225, usually 8 times. I DO NOT WANT BITCH TITS. Right now there is no sign whatsoever. I need someone with experience to guide me the right path. I am taking Size On-Creatine and SuperPump as well. I know Creatine is hard for my liver too but i am feeling fine. I could stop it, no big deal. Just need someone to help me out here.

Thanks,
Sam

----------


## Stoneco|d

oh i was on Rage Anabolics before using M1T as well ... for around 2 months.

----------


## Stoneco|d

bump

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## Robert De Niro

Hey guys, first post.

I've read damn near 20 pages of this thread, and I hope I haven't missed the answers I seek but....

I've learned about everything I needed here, except for testicular shrinkage and hair loss.

When using m1t what substances should be used to counteract those effects and when?

Thank you.

----------


## rockinred

this is a pretty old thread, but also a good one. You need to have a post set up for PCT... some clomid and or nolvadex will be good.

----------


## rockinred

If you don't run the 4ad then you don't have to worry about the hairloss... pct will bring back the boys.

----------


## Robert De Niro

Thanks for the reply dude.

So basically what I'm gathering is that I risk lethargy if I don't use 4-ad with the m1t cycle.

I've got another question; Tamoxifen Citrate IS Nolvadex right? And is ClomiPHENE Citrate, Clomid? 

On Internet drugstores the generic drugs with chemical compound names are much less than the brand names, but I want to make sure I'm getting the same drug.

----------


## farhad_039

Hello,

I am 17 years old 155lbs and have been working out for the past year and seeing no results. I have taken WHEY for over 2 years now and Weight Gainers and have seen no results. I was looking into taking M1Ts. I was planning on taking 1 a day right before workouts and only doing a half cycle(2 weeks on 2 weeks off). After the cycle i plan on taking something to flush my liver. 
Do u think M1T is the right way to go or no?
thanks

----------


## farhad_039

Hello,

I am 17 years old 155lbs and have been working out for the past year and seeing no results. I have taken WHEY for over 2 years now and Weight Gainers and have seen no results. I was looking into taking M1Ts. I was planning on taking 1 a day right before workouts and only doing a half cycle(2 weeks on 2 weeks off). After the cycle i plan on taking something to flush my liver. 
Do u think M1T is the right way to go or no?
thanks

----------


## farhad_039

Hello,

I am 17 years old 155lbs and have been working out for the past year and seeing no results. I have taken WHEY for over 2 years now and Weight Gainers and have seen no results. I was looking into taking M1Ts. I was planning on taking 1 a day right before workouts and only doing a half cycle(2 weeks on 2 weeks off). After the cycle i plan on taking something to flush my liver. 
Do u think M1T is the right way to go or no?
thanks

----------


## bcaasdirty

> Thanks for the reply dude.
> 
> *So basically what I'm gathering is that I risk lethargy if I don't use 4-ad with the m1t cycle.
> *
> I've got another question; Tamoxifen Citrate IS Nolvadex right? And is ClomiPHENE Citrate, Clomid? 
> 
> On Internet drugstores the generic drugs with chemical compound names are much less than the brand names, but I want to make sure I'm getting the same drug.


megadose ester vitamin C

works every time

----------


## Joey_

does it matter what time of day you take the 10mg of m1t

----------


## bcaasdirty

> does it matter what time of day you take the 10mg of m1t


it has a half life or ~12hrs so space it out as much as possible

----------


## cdeguz

Farhad, do not take M1Ts.
1) You're too young
2) You havn't been seriously training long enough
3) Eat more

----------


## cdeguz

Okay guys, I'm gunna give you my history, and I would appreciate if you can tell me whether of not taking M1Ts would be a good idea.

I'm an ectomorph, 19 years old, 5'10" and have been seriously bodybuilding for about 2 years. On my first bulking phase, I went from 130-170 and kept bf% fairly level (eating up to 4k calories ED). In the summer I went down to about 155. Next season (this season), I went from 155-175. I just strayed off of bodybuilding this past month, as I've been travelling and had an injury, and I'm now, unfortunately, at about 163lbs and 13% bf (from 175lbs and 10%bf). I lost lean body mass and gained bf. I just recently started hitting the gym hard again and focusing on my diet. I'm disappointed with my physique at the moment and want to bulk still instead of cutting at these stats. 

Do you think an M1T cycle would be suitable for my situation or what? I would start in a few weeks, as I need to prime my muscles and build up to my old maxes.

PS. Would anyone be able to PM me any info on where to get 4-ad, Clomid and/or Nolva please. Thank you!

----------


## cdeguz

bump =]

----------


## hnd

> Dose i'd recomend, NONE. Don't take this until you have trained for a long time, you shouldn't even take 1-ad/4-ad stack until you've been training for a while. You still have plenty of growth to obtain naturally, just get your diet and training in check, start supplementing with whey, multivitamin and creatine and you'll see more gains than you ever thought you could gain.


I am 5"6 140 lbs. I have been training for 8 month . And the first two months, I gained 10 lbs and that is it. It just stay the same for the rest of 6 months. I want to gain 10 to 20 lbs more. Can I use m1t? Any advices? Thank you

----------


## RG1527

Hey Everyone, I'm new here. Just wondering if somebody could please PM where to get PCT supplies.. Clomid, Nolva, Milk Thistle..

Thanks

----------


## xlxBigSexyxlx

> Hey Everyone, I'm new here. Just wondering if somebody could please PM where to get PCT supplies.. Clomid, Nolva, Milk Thistle..
> 
> Thanks


clomid clomid clomid


just click on one of the blue "clomid" and you got your site


nolva nolva

----------


## Voice of Reason

:LOL:

----------


## Wingedbull

Hi everyone, im new here and i have been reading some of the great inputs by different users and is very helpfull, just had a question to ask, i got M1T but each individual tablet is 10mg, is that normal? thanks











































/

----------


## spywizard

so?? bumping a 4 yr old thread would be a good way to get info??

----------


## Cole1992

I understand this thread is as old as the hills but, nsa, could you PM me your source of buying liquid Nolvadex ? $20 is dirt cheap.

----------


## eatrainrest

> I understand this thread is as old as the hills but, nsa, could you PM me your source of buying liquid Nolvadex? $20 is dirt cheap.


if i were you i would edit this post, or ban yourself

----------


## Cole1992

> if i were you i would edit this post, or ban yourself


Why? I'm asking sources VIA PM, not thru threads. What's wrong with that?

----------


## solid420

im doing

Andro Technologies M1T(17-Methyl-1 androstene - 17b-ol-3one) 10mg first 3 days then 20mg, 10mg last week while intreducing nolvadex .

Liver toxicity - Alphalipoic acid while on,Milk thistle and Alphalipoic acid while off.
Lethargy - muiltivitamin, nitric oxide reactors with tuarene
Loss of appetite - B-12, THC (marijuana)
Increase in blood pressure - Hawthorne berry extract.
blood sugar levels - Keep your carb intake at a healthy level, and THC (marijuana) will slightly raise blood sugar lvl.
Irritability and Aggresion - THC (marijuana)
nausea - THC (marijuana)
only nolvadex while off.

day 5, zero sides, feel normal, pecks are hurt and are rock hard tho, and always thirsty.

----------


## xmattech

hey nsa thanks for the info , i m new to this site , i have done m1t before with nothing else and i did get some side effects , mostly lethargy , so now i just ordered m1t , 4ad ,novaldex , clomid , i will follow the cycle you posted here , now , how do i know that what i ordered is good , or is the real thing ?? the m1t is called '' Monster'' , has anyone used it ? 

Thank you

----------


## Rex9933

any of u guys still running m1t? im looking for it but its so hard to find now. iron labs just stopped producing their clone

----------


## Rex9933

anyone if andro technologies m1t can still be had?

----------


## CodyLee1337

I know I'm bumping an age old thread but I got ahold of some M1Tests and was wondering if NSA or anyone could help me out with a few questions would be much appreciated  :Smilie:

----------

