# STEROIDS FORUM > HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY- Low T, Anti-Aging >  Smallest effective dosage

## BOB89

The question I have is what is the smallest dosage(weekly/bi-weekly) of test-c or Test-e that someone on here has had success with for HRT/TRT. I am intrested more in mood elavation and such then results in the gym or physical change(not that I'm discounting the postive effects of body change on mood)

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## BOB89

Well maybe I should be more specific about why I'm asking such an odd question.

For the last several years I've had low test numbers sitting in the mid 300s. ALong with them all the problems that go with it, I was lazy, distracted, decreased libido, and I just couldn't find my intensity in the gym. Well my last blood work finally came back out of the normal range with a 260. So my doc told me that now I could go on TRT if I wanted since everthing else checked out as far as other causes. He didn't try to sell me the patch or gel and said I would be best served with Test-C. 

The dosage he orginally prescribed was only 200 mg per 6 weeks(yes I know that is incrediably low) I took the shot and hoped for the best. Well the first 2 weeks were great, I felt good more like I thought I should. Then I started to fade. A quick call to the doc and he moved me up to once a month but still at only 200mg. So I waited out the 1 and 1/2 weeks I had left and gave myself the next injection.

I've started to fade again. And although I plan on requesting more frequent injections next visit I am curious as to what is the lowest dosage people have seen results with. So I have some point of refernce when I consider my options after my next appointment.

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## BigDog225

I don't know about the lowest script that someone has success with but most common dosage is 100-200mg per week.

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## FallenWyvern

Below 100 mgs week IMO is a waste of time.

Weekly injections will help your levels be stable.

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## THORSZ

My doc started me at 200 mgs once a month and I crashed after 2 weeks. 
I am now doing weekly injections of 100 and levels are stable.

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## BOB89

I think I'm heading towards 100mg a week, right now I'm trying 150mg every two weeks. Last 2 days I start to lag alittle. 

The doc is being really good about adjusting the dosages, he's leaving alot up to me as long as I tell him what I'm doing. I'm just not huge into taking more of anything than I need to get the desired results. So for now I'm trying to start low and go up. Hence the question.

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## dino1013

i can say i know how you feel...i went through kind of the same thing make a long story short.150 mg week fits me great,feel great etc etc etc.you will get it right,but as the others have said most people feel better and are more stable just taking weekly injections..good luck

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## BOB89

I'm going to settle into 150 every 10-12 days for a month or two and see how it feels. THen based on that I'll make my judgement call then of whether to go up with dosage or frequency. I'll try to keep this updated as I go.

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## j4ever41

i would suggest 100-125 per week ( weekly injections ) i would not go over 8 days without inject

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## FallenWyvern

100 week is better than 150 every 10-12 days. I would even say 70 week is better.

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## warchild

i started at 150 cyp weekly and the doc said i could bump up to 200 so i tried that and liked it alot. i went down to 100 a week to build up some extra test to maybe up it to 400 a week, but 100 for was like nothing and i wasnt feeling as good as with 200...

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## BOB89

Thanks for the input. My first 150 was Friday, and so far so good. I only gone about 12 days since my last injection so I didn't really get the flat on my face feeling like I did spacing further out than that. So in 10 days I'll see where I am and go 150 again. 

So far I don't feel nearly as good as I did with the first injection of 200mg but I feel nice and level and my engery levels seem good. This week is a long one at work so I'll have to see near the end where I am. 

To change the subject does anyone here change their dosage based on stress or other outside influences? Not saving up to cycle but just to provide a boost. Sounds strange I know but its not outside my comfort zone to consider it. I could see where it could become somewhat of a trap as you would always feel you needed the larger dose, but also where there could be advantages.

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## FallenWyvern

I think there is more benefit to weekly injections than the amount of mgs. Stability of levels better than roller coaster.

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## BOB89

I'm not disagreeing with you by any means. Right now this is my scripted dosage so I'm going to give it a honest try for awhile. I didn't find the let down after my first 200mg dosage(the one that was suppose to be a 6 week run) to be unbearable just noticable. After a few more days it might have really sucked. I might look into 70mg or 100mg a week after giving this one a shot if I feel too much of a roller coaster. 

I know there is no way to tell how much of a drop in actual Test levels one would experience for sure durign that period but could anyone guess as to what level a 150mg dosage could amount to and where that level might be after 12 days, everybody is differnt but I'm cursious more than wanting an exact answer

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## THORSZ

> Thanks for the input. My first 150 was Friday, and so far so good. I only gone about 12 days since my last injection so I didn't really get the flat on my face feeling like I did spacing further out than that. So in 10 days I'll see where I am and go 150 again. 
> 
> So far I don't feel nearly as good as I did with the first injection of 200mg but I feel nice and level and my engery levels seem good. This week is a long one at work so I'll have to see near the end where I am. 
> 
> To change the subject does anyone here change their dosage based on stress or other outside influences? Not saving up to cycle but just to provide a boost. Sounds strange I know but its not outside my comfort zone to consider it. I could see where it could become somewhat of a trap as you would always feel you needed the larger dose, but also where there could be advantages.



The best for me was on my first injection too. I think it is just because your body is so low and then you get more used to it. 

I'll change the dosage around. Nothing major, but I'll take more if I am going on a job interview or have something big going on. My regular dose is 100 a week, but I don't worry about making it exact.

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## BOB89

Another weird thing I've noticed is that I'm having more real/lucid dreams since I started TRT. Not sure if this is because I'm sleeping better or what, anyone else notice this. 

The first week after my first injection I felt like a 12 year old girl as I was almost giddy and giggley, I haven't gotten that kind of lift since.

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## FallenWyvern

> Another weird thing I've noticed is that I'm having more real/lucid dreams since I started TRT. Not sure if this is because I'm sleeping better or what, anyone else notice this. 
> 
> The first week after my first injection I felt like a 12 year old girl as I was almost giddy and giggley, I haven't gotten that kind of lift since.


Yeah I got both of those things in the first month. 

Not as intense now, or maybe I am just used to it.

My dreams at first were not only real/lucid but quite explicit as well.

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## BOB89

Explicit sums it up. I wasn't perpared for that, I figured I'd be little randy and the doc warned me about that but the dreams caught me by surprise.

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## warchild

trt is great

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## zaggahamma

imo, 100mg of cyp/enth EW is the answer to your lowest effective maintenance trt dose as this yields approx. 70mg after the ester

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## THORSZ

> imo, 100mg of cyp/enth EW is the answer to your lowest effective maintenance trt dose as this yields approx. 70mg after the ester


I agree, that seems to be the sweet spot.

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## BOB89

Well tommorrow will be 7 days and I still feel great on this dosage.A little under the weather but thats not TRT related. I'm not sure what my lag time between injection and actaully getting to my peak level is, for some reason I remember reading 3 days somewhere, I'll have to look. 

I know everyone seems to perfer a 7 day seperation, but I'm not understanding why right now. I read about half lifes and such but could someone lay it out for me in super simiple terms. If you could make up some numbers so I could visulize easier, for example it might help. don't care if there realistic.

Like the day I inject level we use 1000( or any nice round number to divide and such) then work the math out for 2 weeks assuming I injected at 10 days or at 7 days.

Or just point me to somewhere theres a forumla I can figure out myself that would be jsut as much help.

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## zaggahamma

> Well tommorrow will be 7 days and I still feel great on this dosage.A little under the weather but thats not TRT related. I'm not sure what my lag time between injection and actaully getting to my peak level is, for some reason I remember reading 3 days somewhere, I'll have to look. 
> 
> I know everyone seems to perfer a 7 day seperation, but I'm not understanding why right now. I read about half lifes and such but could someone lay it out for me in super simiple terms. If you could make up some numbers so I could visulize easier, for example it might help. don't care if there realistic.
> 
> Like the day I inject level we use 1000( or any nice round number to divide and such) then work the math out for 2 weeks assuming I injected at 10 days or at 7 days.
> 
> 
> Or just point me to somewhere theres a forumla I can figure out myself that would be jsut as much help.


huh say wut man ????  :Hmmmm:

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## BOB89

Yea that question is overly complex and not clear once I read it again. The answer I'm looking for is how much drop is there day 8-12 compaired to day 7. Does that make more sense?

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## zaggahamma

> Yea that question is overly complex and not clear once I read it again. The answer I'm looking for is how much drop is there day 8-12 compaired to day 7. Does that make more sense?


i couldnt tell you....i've been jabbin for about 3 years and never went more than 8 days cuz i forgot to jab on day 7...used to jab twice a week....too many shots for me though....i'd actually like to know the answer to your question as well....maybe jab every 10 days/3 times a month????

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## BOB89

12 days between is my min. right now. I'm on day 8 1/2 since my last shot and still pretty postive feeling(other than a damn chest/head cold).

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## BOB89

Well intead of starting a new thread everytime something comes up for me I figured I'd just keep it here, as I feel this TRT process out.

I looked in the mirror today and I swear I'm starting to notice postive body changes, I look leaner and my muscles look fuller. I'm not sure how much of this is due to my Therapy and how much is my renewed motivation in the gym(also due to my therapy) My weight is unchanged and the only way I have to check BF% is a dodgy scale which has read the same number for the last 4 years. I had calipers done several times during that time and lost about 10% but no change on the scale so I don't use that feature anymore.

I went to the gym shortly after I started TRT to get my BF% tested, but they couldn't find their calipers(I'm gonna get my own set cause their not expensive) and I haven't thought about it again since. 

The question I have is how long before you guys noticed postive body changes after going on therapy?

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## FallenWyvern

I have pictures of what TRT did for me in 4 months.

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## zaggahamma

> I have pictures of what TRT did for me in 4 months.


just keep up your avatar thats the only pic we wanna see biach

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## BOB89

As long as TRT didn't turn you into your avatar I'll be happy.

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## zaggahamma

> As long as TRT didn't turn you into your avatar I'll be happy.


gotta have an AI on hand  :Wink:

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## BOB89

Thought a quick update might be in order. I tried the 12 day for 3 seperate periods. Found that I go irratiable on day 11 and 12, then stayed that way 1 day post shot. By shot +2 I was back to "normal". So now its 10 days with 100mg for a trial. Need to call the doc and check in though if I have to go beyond that. It is looking more and more like 100 mg every 7 days is the way to go.

Progress in the gym continues to be postive though. I can feel a drop in performance at day 8 or so on my core lifts. Not sure could be mental or physical or both. 

Other aspects of life remain postive.

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## ZonaDave

> Thought a quick update might be in order. I tried the 12 day for 3 seperate periods. Found that I go irratiable on day 11 and 12, then stayed that way 1 day post shot. By shot +2 I was back to "normal". So now its 10 days with 100mg for a trial. Need to call the doc and check in though if I have to go beyond that. It is looking more and more like 100 mg every 7 days is the way to go.
> 
> Progress in the gym continues to be postive though. I can feel a drop in performance at day 8 or so on my core lifts. Not sure could be mental or physical or both. 
> 
> Other aspects of life remain postive.


i don't think it's mental, it sounds hormonal. the reason why you're feeling low on T is because you are. the half-life of Test Cyp. is 5-8 days so that's why weekly shots is a minimum.

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## Black

> I have pictures of what TRT did for me in 4 months.


Not to sound like a fag, but could you post them? I'm getting ready to start TRT and it's cool to actually see what changes happen to some (although I know everyone responds differently).

Also, what is your TRT protocol?

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## ZonaDave

> I have pictures of what TRT did for me in 4 months.


dude, you're looking hot in your avatar pic but i know your E2 is WAY too high!

 :Haha: 

all joking aside, is that your chick?

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## zaggahamma

i never feel any different no matter how close to shot day and i've recently been doin every 10 days like 150 mg...interesting how you can feel these distinct differences

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## ZonaDave

> i never feel any different no matter how close to shot day and i've recently been doin every 10 days like 150 mg...interesting how you can feel these distinct differences


i think it depends on how fast the body uses the injected T and how much gets converted to E.

some guys convert very easily so the larger infrequent shots don't work well while others don't have a problem with it.

i was talking to a guy a few weeks ago and he said his E2 dropped 10 points just by switching from weekly shots to semi-weekly shots.

just another example of how unique we all are. each person responds differently to TRT.

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## meathead320

> Yea that question is overly complex and not clear once I read it again. The answer I'm looking for is how much drop is there day 8-12 compaired to day 7. Does that make more sense?


Here, this is why every 7 days is the min for test-C injects. 

Its effects only last 7 days. 5-7 day active half life. It was made to be used as 1x EW.

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## zaggahamma

> Here, this is why every 7 days is the min for test-C injects. 
> 
> Its effects only last 7 days. 5-7 day active half life. It was made to be used as 1x EW.


where did you get that chart from? i know i remember seeing the graph(chart) in the test insert and it declines from day 4/5 but dont remember it dropping off that erratic

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## FallenWyvern

That chart is suspect.

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## ZonaDave

this is actually a better chart...

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## THORSZ

Yeah, I don't think it drops off so fast, but weekly is still the way to go.

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## BOB89

Thanks for the charts,


I'm leaning more and more towards 7 days like I said before. I just need to pick up the phone and talk to the doc. At 12 days I had a let down and can't figure out why I would want that. So one or two runs at 10 and see how day 11 and 12 are, then go from there.

I need to get a new body fat measure and see where I am on that front. I know my lifts are going up at a good rate. New program as well as a slightly improved diet to thank as well.

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## garythompson

> Here, this is why every 7 days is the min for test-C injects. 
> 
> Its effects only last 7 days. 5-7 day active half life. It was made to be used as 1x EW.


that looks like it was drawn with paint lol the lines are crooked and unevenly spaced and those colors are sweet!

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## nativetexan70

I am 21, had testicular cancer and took a bunch of over the counter pro hormones which my doctor siad may have been the cause of cancer bc of too low of estrogen but besides that now i am on Test-C and i take 1 shot a week of 1cc which made me feel back to normal after a year of trying that bullshit androgel . But now i feel good on the Test Cypionate and wouldnt mind taking a little higher dosage every week but its kinda expensive getting legally $250 every 10 weeks, but defintley not unreasonable for feeling back to how i should be plus my weight is put back on from 165 to 180 sex drive is better, more energy, more focus, better mood, and i lig=ft more in the weight room.

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## FallenWyvern

Not sure if no price discussions apply to legal prices, but any pharmacy in the states sells for less than half than what you said even without insurance.

Are you self injecting or getting it from the doc?

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## zaggahamma

> Not sure if no price discussions apply to legal prices, but any pharmacy in the states sells for less than half than what you said even without insurance.
> 
> Are you self injecting or getting it from the doc?


i think we got scolded for talking prices even for legal regular pharmacy gear/prescriptions...maybe mod can chime in....my recent pick up (today) was a few bucks more than before and the 3rd lab used in same amount of years from the same pharmacy??

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## ecsaaron

watson from that mart place is only 86 rubles.....without insurance

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## zaggahamma

> watson from that mart place is only 86 rubles.....without insurance


yes watson was the lab that my cypionate came from before and each time it changes it looks more and more unprofessional (label/packaging) (down to the little colored cap)

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## BOB89

A quick update, 

I called the doc and talked to the nurse who consulted with the doc and got back to me. Looks like I get to do some blood work. 

I described the rollercoaster type feeling I'm getting going into day 12 and beyond. I've also been having disturbed sleep patterns past 10 days. I had taken 100mg the night before I called and they want me to go for blood levels the day of my next shot, 14days this time. 

Then go back when I feel the drop from that one(been running on day 9 or 10) and get new blood work. I assume he wants to know how low i am when I inject and at what level I start the downward turn. The sleep disturbance is new last week, waking up several times a night like I did before I started TRT. 

ON the postive side I have dropped another 1% body fat(since last month) while gaining around 10 pounds from the start of this.

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## BOB89

Got the blood work done and am waiting til my regular appoinment for the results..


Good news is my insurance is picking up the tab on my script from here on out. Had to jump through some hoops but got it done. Updates to follow

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## therecanonlybe1

good post...turning 40 in a couple of months and the ol body aint he same as it used to be. aches and pain and recoup time bites. going to start with test cyp at 250 a week and hope for the best. by no means am i looking to be the next arnold...just a boost.

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## ZonaDave

> good post...turning 40 in a couple of months and the ol body aint he same as it used to be. aches and pain and recoup time bites. going to start with test cyp at 250 a week and hope for the best. by no means am i looking to be the next arnold...just a boost.


that's a pretty big starting dose! is it for a cycle or TRT?

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## therecanonlybe1

> that's a pretty big starting dose! is it for a cycle or TRT?


..


i like to call it anti aging.. :Smilie: , and by my history and prior experimentation it works for..but what i will say with age comes insight and not to be that stupid kid many moons ago that would inject anything he could squeeze in a pin.
thank you for your input.
jake

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## ZonaDave

> ..
> 
> 
> i like to call it anti aging.., and by my history and prior experimentation it works for..but what i will say with age comes insight and not to be that stupid kid many moons ago that would inject anything he could squeeze in a pin.
> thank you for your input.
> jake


i tried bumping my dose up to 200mg/week but i think it messes with my E2 too much so i went back down to 160mg/week.

i was actually making pretty good gains at the gym on 120mg/week.

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## therecanonlybe1

> i tried bumping my dose up to 200mg/week but i think it messes with my E2 too much so i went back down to 160mg/week.
> 
> i was actually making pretty good gains at the gym on 120mg/week.


but my question is were you using human grade pharmacy or ugl stuff?

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## clozto50

Once a week to mg should do fine for trt!!

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## ZonaDave

> but my question is were you using human grade pharmacy or ugl stuff?


i've only ever taken pharmacy grade T

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## therecanonlybe1

> i've only ever taken pharmacy grade T


i would have to knock off a drug store before i could find a doc to work with me on weekly injects  :Chairshot:

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## ZonaDave

> i would have to knock off a drug store before i could find a doc to work with me on weekly injects


so you don't do self-injections?

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## BOB89

> i tried bumping my dose up to 200mg/week but i think it messes with my E2 too much so i went back down to 160mg/week.
> 
> i was actually making pretty good gains at the gym on 120mg/week.


Speaking of gym gains, that continues to be postive. Need to get my BF% done again I'm about a week behind on that(trying to do it once a month)
But judging scrictly on apperance I continue to drop BF%

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## therecanonlybe1

> so you don't do self-injections?


my bad i should have been more specific in saying ..to find a doc who will GIVE me the amount of test i require/want.. :Smilie:

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## ZonaDave

> my bad i should have been more specific in saying ..to find a doc who will GIVE me the amount of test i require/want..


the reason i was asking about self-shots is because i didn't think most doctors kept that close of an eye on the refills.

i tweak my dose once in awhile and my doc never questions it.

well, i guess i shouldn't say never. i recently bumped my dose up to 200mg/week and my blood results came back with high TT, FT and DHT so she just said to drop it down a little.

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## therecanonlybe1

> the reason i was asking about self-shots is because i didn't think most doctors kept that close of an eye on the refills.
> 
> i tweak my dose once in awhile and my doc never questions it.
> 
> well, i guess i shouldn't say never. i recently bumped my dose up to 200mg/week and my blood results came back with high TT, FT and DHT so she just said to drop it down a little.


must be nice..my doc told me exactly how much i would need for exact date and time..and basically don't call me i'll call you...bastard.. :Smilie:

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## ZonaDave

oooh, that's not good. i mean, it's not really a good idea to adjust your dose without letting your doc know but sometimes we have to make minor adjustments as needed.

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## BOB89

Well as an update to my TRT I just got notified that insurance is picking up my Test at for a $30 copay. That will do me for about 6 months or so. I see the doc again late june.

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## BOB89

Since its late June and I have been to the doctor again I'm going to update this. First the results of my April Bloodwork. The day of my shot I was 173 on a 240 minimium scale. The second test on the day I first felt like I was starting to drop off was 243 on the same scale. 

Doc was very unhappy with these numbers which I actually wasn't surprised at. But he did something I didn't think he would do. He tripled my dose. I am now dosed at 300 mg per 10 days, or roughly 900 mg per month or 200 mg per week. 

This was also the first time he mentioned what numbers he wanted me at he he said somewhere near 800-900 between doses. He wanted me to take 1.5 cc per 10 days but left the actual injection schedule up to me with in my prescriptions boundaries. So now I pose a question to you all. How should I take my injections, I'm thinking 3/4 a cc every 5 days. but several other opitions exist. A 1/2 cc on every monday and thursday, 1+ cc every week or 1.5 cc every 10 days. Anybody have an opinion.

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## BOB89

for the record I'm on 200mg Test C per CC

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## oakdad

I would say twice a week.

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## BOB89

I think I've settled on 1/2 cc every monday and thurs. Gives me 1.5 every 10 days and means I don't have to worry about logging every five days and getting off some how. If anyone has any reason to try something dif I'll listen.

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## zaggahamma

> I think I've settled on 1/2 cc every monday and thurs. Gives me 1.5 every 10 days and means I don't have to worry about logging every five days and getting off some how. If anyone has any reason to try something dif I'll listen.


no...i think most trt vets will agree that bi weekly is the way to go....myself, bi weekly just added up too many holes in the arse so i jab once every 7-8 days

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## tboney

> Since its late June and I have been to the doctor again I'm going to update this. First the results of my April Bloodwork. The day of my shot I was 173 on a 240 minimium scale. The second test on the day I first felt like I was starting to drop off was 243 on the same scale. 
> 
> Doc was very unhappy with these numbers which I actually wasn't surprised at. But he did something I didn't think he would do. He tripled my dose. I am now dosed at 300 mg per 10 days, or roughly 900 mg per month or 200 mg per week. 
> 
> This was also the first time he mentioned what numbers he wanted me at he he said somewhere near 800-900 between doses. He wanted me to take 1.5 cc per 10 days but left the actual injection schedule up to me with in my prescriptions boundaries. So now I pose a question to you all. How should I take my injections, I'm thinking 3/4 a cc every 5 days. but several other opitions exist. A 1/2 cc on every monday and thursday, 1+ cc every week or 1.5 cc every 10 days. Anybody have an opinion.


How are you feeling at 300 ??

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## ZonaDave

i started out taking one shot per week and then a few months later split my dose into two shots/week to help lower E2. i can't physically feel the difference between weekly and semi-weekly shot schedules. my new doc wants me doing weekly shots of 200mg and i feel great. i don't have any evidence that the semi-weekly shots were helping with my E2.

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## BOB89

> How are you feeling at 300 ??



So far so good, I was gone on vacation last week and out of work, gym and normal stressers, so I don't have a great read on it yet. Right now I'm going with the 1/2 cc on monday and thursday. Should be back in the gym later this week and I'm curious on the effects there. . I think it took about a week or so to catch up with me though, but now Other than that I feel pretty darn good


I'm planning on some new BF% numbers soon just for refernce. I am now also off my blood pressure meds with my drs, permission.

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## pepous

But the body becomes after +-6 weeks of Testosteron therapy be accustomed to the hormone levels in the body and combats it with the use of SHBG, cortisol, myostatin levels, estrogen, and other hormones to decrease the efficiency of the AR .
Has this problem everyone? Only me?


Also I after 6 weeks of using low doses of TST I had bad mood, depression, body weight went rapid down.. I was using low doses of testosteron in that time .... ???

If someone will use Nolvadex the problem will be fixed?

How to do HRT in long term?

weekly 200mg tst E or C + Nolvadex ( what dose)?

Sorry for my english

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## BOB89

> But the body becomes after +-6 weeks of Testosteron therapy be accustomed to the hormone levels in the body and combats it with the use of SHBG, cortisol, myostatin levels, estrogen, and other hormones to decrease the efficiency of the AR in the muscle.
> Has this problem everyone? Only me?
> 
> 
> Also I after 6 weeks of using low doses of TST I had bad mood, depression, body weight went rapid down.. I was using low doses of testosteron in that time .... ???
> 
> If someone will use Nolvadex the problem will be fixed?
> 
> How to do HRT in long term?
> ...



Do you have any blood test results during that period. It sounds like an E2 problem but I would have to let someone more experienced than me answer.

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## pepous

anybody?

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## BOB89

This dose is showing itself in the gym. I also feel great, I do have a little back acne flaring up so I'm calling in the next couple days for blood work. We'll see where I end up from there.

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## BOB89

Well I think the acne was due more to the heat and humidity here than the script. It went away about as quickly as it showed up, so I skipped the phone call.

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## BOB89

I haven't updated this since there is little new. The acne on my shoulders has been coming and going but normally goes away with a little OTC product. I did my yearly bloodwork 2 days ago and go to the dr next friday.

Bloodwork was 5 tubes worth plus urine plus a chest x-ray, the last one was new and I'm not sure what that was about. 

Pretty much settled on 100mg every 4 days or so for the last several months after playing with it with dosages up to 200mg every 6 days or so, which flared the acne and didn't do anything more for me than the lower dosages. 

My bloodwork was done on the 5th day after a 100mg shot.

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## BOB89

I also need to add that I had to go back on my blood pressure meds about 2 weeks from stopping them as I started having headaches and upon checking was sky high again.

My BF% got as low as 13% about 4 weeks after starting the higher dosage but then went up again to 17% about 2 months later. Cleaned up the diet even more and I am now at 15%. based on this and the acne I suspect a high E2 reading on my blood work. 

Since Feb I have added 200 lbs to my deadlift, almost 100 to my bench and almost 150 to my squat. Take in account I have not focused on strength building prior to this time. So alot of those gains were NOOB gains. 

I also appear to be one of the lucky ones as even with the low test scores of my old dosage and even before I started TRT up to now(and the possible high E2) I have had no sexual dysfunction.

----------


## BOB89

Went to the Dr today, and the appointment was messed up, they had 3 I had 330 so I got skipped and could either wait several hours or reshedule. So late Jan I go back. I did get my blood work which was were I expected it.

Estradiol 59 (10-52
Test 946 (241-827)
T4 6.1 (4.5-12.0)
Thyroxine (T4) Free 1.31 (.89-1.76)


everything else was in range but the E2 and test, as far as cholesterols and such. Which I figured was high. Talked to the nurse about it real quick, should be addressed in Jan. Til then I'll just take a little more out of my dose.

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## zaggahamma

> Went to the Dr today, and the appointment was messed up, they had 3 I had 330 so I got skipped and could either wait several hours or reshedule. So late Jan I go back. I did get my blood work which was were I expected it.
> 
> Estradiol 59 (10-52
> Test 946 (241-827)
> T4 6.1 (4.5-12.0)
> Thyroxine (T4) Free 1.31 (.89-1.76)
> 
> 
> everything else was in range but the E2 and test, as far as cholesterols and such. Which I figured was high. Talked to the nurse about it real quick, should be addressed in Jan. Til then I'll just take a little more out of my dose.


i dont consider that test level high...some ranges go up to 1200..refresh my mind...wut if any arimidex are you taking...seems a little dose of that will get your test ration right where you want it

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## BOB89

right now I'm not on any AI. that test was done on a dose of 100mg every 5 days and was done the day of my injection.


He was shooting for a 850 or so last time I talked to him. so its not high as so much as out of range for the given range. I'm not sweating the T result, but I do think I need to drop the E2 a hair. 

I feel good on this dose and don't want to drop much lower and I hope he goes with an AI instead of reccomending a lower T dosage.

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## zaggahamma

> right now I'm not on any AI. that test was done on a dose of 100mg every 5 days and was done the day of my injection.
> 
> 
> He was shooting for a 850 or so last time I talked to him. so its not high as so much as out of range for the given range. I'm not sweating the T result, but I do think I need to drop the E2 a hair. 
> 
> I feel good on this dose and don't want to drop much lower and I hope he goes with an AI instead of reccomending a lower T dosage.


i'm glad u mentioned how u feel on that dose and these levels...i was gonna ask...thats good....i like that protocol...even if the doc decides to slip your dose back a bit and not add arimidex ...go at it with open arms...zona dave is having good results from lowering both his test to 80mg ew (shot twice a week....similarly to your every 5 days) your test might just get in a sweet spot and you wont need an AI....i would prefer that if youre feeling good and no bloat or other estro sides
keep us posted

----------


## BOB89

For possible E2 sides I have the acne on my shoulders and a hint of moodness, alone with a little extra volume in my face. The moodness could be anything, but the acne is def test/E2 relates since it started when my dose was changed. The extra volume in my face is another one of those things that only I notice so it may be me looking for more than there actually is.

I would perfer to avoid the AI if possible, sticking with my less is better ideal. However my overall sense of well being is really solid on this dose and although I'm not seeing great body change I am getting stronger at the same weight. 

I'm going to taper to 100 mg every 6 days instead of the every 5 days I have been running. Which may give me the drop in E2 I want without the AI but still not drop my Test levels out of my comfort zone. I also considered dropping to <13% bodyfat to see if that helps. A few simple diet changes should do it if I do that although I would be sacrificing some strength gains I think.

I am also going to discuss going to a low dose deca along with my test for some knee issues I'm having, but last I heard Deca was only available through compounding pharamcies(any know if this is still the case) Worst he can say is no and considering I'm actually using less than his script I hope he doesn't misunderstand my motivation

----------


## zaggahamma

> For possible E2 sides I have the acne on my shoulders and a hint of moodness, alone with a little extra volume in my face. The moodness could be anything, but the acne is def test/E2 relates since it started when my dose was changed. The extra volume in my face is another one of those things that only I notice so it may be me looking for more than there actually is.
> 
> I would perfer to avoid the AI if possible, sticking with my less is better ideal. However my overall sense of well being is really solid on this dose and although I'm not seeing great body change I am getting stronger at the same weight. 
> 
> I'm going to taper to 100 mg every 6 days instead of the every 5 days I have been running. Which may give me the drop in E2 I want without the AI but still not drop my Test levels out of my comfort zone. I also considered dropping to <13% bodyfat to see if that helps. A few simple diet changes should do it if I do that although I would be sacrificing some strength gains I think.
> 
> I am also going to discuss going to a low dose deca along with my test for some knee issues I'm having, but last I heard Deca was only available through compounding pharamcies(any know if this is still the case) Worst he can say is no and considering I'm actually using less than his script I hope he doesn't misunderstand my motivation


i really think youre got a good game plan and so close to dialing in...thanks for keeping us updated and best of luck

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## BOB89

Thanks, 

I've put some time in trying to figure out the best route. My doc has been decent and we get along well which I think is important as well. I should have an update around the end of Jan after my visit if nothing major happens til then. 

My only other consideration is if he wants to lower my dosage and it doesn't feel right whether I should consider obtaining A-dex through other channels and continue my current dosage. Only time and more expereince will tell

----------


## zaggahamma

> Thanks, 
> 
> I've put some time in trying to figure out the best route. My doc has been decent and we get along well which I think is important as well. I should have an update around the end of Jan after my visit if nothing major happens til then. 
> 
> My only other consideration is if he wants to lower my dosage and it doesn't feel right whether I should consider obtaining A-dex through other channels and continue my current dosage. Only time and more expereince will tell


yes we ALL feel that way...we feel sooooooooo good when we're first on...just dont know if it builds up and become a lil problem trying to keep estro in ratio....its hard to tell yourself or inject less when youre feeling the best u have in years or for some ever

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## ZonaDave

i actually feel better on lower doses of T. i recently dropped my dose down from 120mg/week to 100mg/week and i'm feeling great so far. but, i'm guessing 100mg/week (50mg 2x/week) puts me around 800-900 on blood draw day.

the dose isn't important, it's where the dose puts your levels. i know guys who have to shoot 200mg/week to be in the 800-900 range. a buddy of mine is shooting 50mg 2x/week and his TT is 1200 so he's thinking about dropping it down to 40mg 2x/week.

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## BOB89

well its week four of 100mg every 5 days(I decided against going to 6days) and my acne is greatly improved. Some OTc products and some time in a tanning bed seems to have done the trick. I think I will stay at 5day intervals until my appointment. I decided to give the 5 day schedule some time to level off since my blood work was done during after only 2 doses at 5 days apart(from 3-4 days intervals)

I still feel like I have a fullness to my face I don't like, but the acne was the biggest issue and although not gone is to a toreable point.

Anyone know the half life of E2 in the body? I know this will be difficult to determine since T is constantly being converted.

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## BOB89

Went to the Dr today, he was happy with all my blood work and didn't seem overly concerned about the E2 reading being high. He thought I should stay at 100mg every 5 days for a few more weeks then get another blood test that would include E2 as well as free and bound test. 

He thinks the ratio is more off than he would like leading to the acne. The acne is almost gone on this dose with just a pimple or two every couple of days showing up. The facial bloat is noticably reduced as well. Dr said that it may take some more time to find the sweet spot in my dosage and that he would like to avoid adding drugs to the treatment until we are closer. 

He did mention using a antibotic as both treatment for the acne and somehow increasing the free test in my system(it stripes the protein from the test?), this was the first I have ever heard of this kind of off label usage, could someone fill me in?

----------


## BOB89

Quick update,


The doc decided after the visit to cancel my 5 week bloodwork and go head and put me on the antibotics. Some research yeilded that the antibotics(doxycycline)inhibits the protien synthesis in relation to the test, resulting in more free test. So far(4days) the acne is at a stand still, no change in mood or physical function. Suppose to stay on the anitbotic for 5 weeks then call for blood work. Also in postive news, he rewrote the way my script read, meaning I'm only paying $10 for each 10ml of cyp.

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## Epic Ed

Thanks for these updates. As a guy just starting out on TRT reading about your progress has been very informative.

I go in tomorrow for my 2nd injection and right now there is some discrepancy with the dose. I did 100mg last week and he wants to go with 50mg weekly if I choose to go the EW route instead of every other week. Based on all the info I've read here and other sites it looks like 50mg EW would be a very uncommonly low dose. I'm hoping to talk him into 100mg EW and a blood test at 3 months to evaluate progress. If he has a reason for picking 50mg each week I'd like to hear a well reason explanation as to why he arrived at that dose.

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## BOB89

50mg a week is a hair low, but just be honest with him about how you feel and go from there. Don't worry about the dose, just worry about how you feel. I didn't feel any better on my largest dose (300 every 10 days) then I do on my current (roughly 200 every 12) 50mg might work for you, it might not.

I think my relationship with my doc and the fact that he believes what I'm telling him is the truth is the reason I've been as lucky as I've been. I have little doubt my doc is looking at this as a long term problem that we can find a solution that works for the long run. I think we're closing in on the right lowest test dose and now we just need to find out if that negates the few sides I'm having or we need to add something else.

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## Epic Ed

I got it sorted out with the doc today. He has indicted .5cc, which is actually 100mg. My misunderstanding.

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## zaggahamma

> I got it sorted out with the doc today. He has indicted .5cc, which is actually 100mg. My misunderstanding.


so u were taking 200 every 2 weeks before then?

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## BOB89

I think he was taking an injection a week, he thought they were 50mg when in reality they were .5 cc or 100mg.

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## Epic Ed

> I think he was taking an injection a week, he thought they were 50mg when in reality they were .5 cc or 100mg.


This.

I had my first shot last week. His initial plan was to have me doing 200mg every other week. I expressed a preference for 100mg EW and he had no problem that that schedule. I misunderstood his recommendation from the outset because he conveyed it in terms of cc's instead of mg's. We got all that cleared up today, though. He's a good guy to work with -- one who definitely believes in treating the patient and not the test scores.

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## TheEuropean

Quick question: Did any of u guys on TRT do a sperm-check after a while?
What I wanna know is: Is there a serious disturbance in sperm quality after lets say, 1year of 100mg/week?

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## zaggahamma

> Quick question: Did any of u guys on TRT do a sperm-check after a while?
> What I wanna know is: Is there a serious disturbance in sperm quality after lets say, 1year of 100mg/week?


welcome bro...start your own thread and you will get answers there friend

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## TheEuropean

> welcome bro...start your own thread and you will get answers there friend


Did that. Thnx man

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## BOB89

OK,

I'm about two weeks off the antibotics and still dosing 100mg every 5 days. The acne is gone, expect for a spot here and there which I've had all my life, but the nasty cystic stuff is off my shoulders and back. the first week off the antibotic I had some itchness in my nipples but its gone now. 

I've put another 20lbs on my bench in the last 2 or so months so I'm still making gains. I have not had a BF% test this month but think its down a hair. I have gained some weight back as I was low at 208 during the antibotics. My general well being hasn't changed since I dropped the antibotics at all and I still feel good at this dose. I may call the doc and ask for some Bcomplex injectable just for giggles as I've been meaning to try it out.

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## BOB89

A quick update, I jumped on the B12 bandwagon about a week or so ago. Haven't really noticed any real difference at this point. Injecting around 7mcg every 3 days along with other B vitiams(its a complex)(don't rememeber dosage on them) But my schedule should be kicking my ass and its manageable so that may be enough. 

I still have a spot or two of acne but its nothing a little time in the sun doesn't cure. And with summer coming I'll get enough of that just mowing my lawn. I'm still at 100mg every 5 days and feeling pretty good. My lifts continue to progress despite my hectic life. I'm not sure if I mentioned it but I switched to an upper lower body split and it seems to be working for me. I get the reps I need while still moving enough heavy weight to keep progressing. Bodyfat at last testing was 14.5 and weight at 212.

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## zaggahamma

> A quick update, I jumped on the B12 bandwagon about a week or so ago. Haven't really noticed any real difference at this point. Injecting around 7mcg every 3 days along with other B vitiams(its a complex)(don't rememeber dosage on them) But my schedule should be kicking my ass and its manageable so that may be enough. 
> 
> I still have a spot or two of acne but its nothing a little time in the sun doesn't cure. And with summer coming I'll get enough of that just mowing my lawn. I'm still at 100mg every 5 days and feeling pretty good. My lifts continue to progress despite my hectic life. I'm not sure if I mentioned it but I switched to an upper lower body split and it seems to be working for me. I get the reps I need while still moving enough heavy weight to keep progressing. Bodyfat at last testing was 14.5 and weight at 212.


good work bob...never tried the b12 myself

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## BOB89

I talked to a dr friend about it before starting. He said go for it. Since I'm injecting anyway why not get it directly into my system since B12 doesn't digest well. Its cheap and easy and if it works great. If not I'm out basically nothing. I do have to inject between my normal T shots but really whats one more injection every 10 days.

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## zaggahamma

> I talked to a dr friend about it before starting. He said go for it. Since I'm injecting anyway why not get it directly into my system since B12 doesn't digest well. Its cheap and easy and if it works great. If not I'm out basically nothing. I do have to inject between my normal T shots but really whats one more injection every 10 days.


yes true

i have heard if low on b one will notice a difference...i may look into that as well

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## BOB89

I seriously doubt I was low as I have an enegery drink addiction and they're loaded with Bcomplex. But I figured what the hell, I've already got a needle in me and my body will get rid of an excess. I'll try it and if I don't feel a dif I'll drop it at the end of this 30ml.

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## jeanlee411

> I think I'm heading towards 100mg a week, right now I'm trying 150mg every two weeks. Last 2 days I start to lag alittle. 
> 
> The doc is being really good about adjusting the dosages, he's leaving alot up to me as long as I tell him what I'm doing. I'm just not huge into taking more of anything than I need to get the desired results. So for now I'm trying to start low and go up. Hence the question.


i can say i know how you feel...i went through kind of the same thing make a long story short.150 mg week fits me great,feel great etc etc etc.you will get it right,but as the others have said most people feel better and are more stable just taking weekly injections..good luck


__________________________
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## Vettester

> I talked to a dr friend about it before starting. He said go for it. Since I'm injecting anyway why not get it directly into my system since B12 doesn't digest well. Its cheap and easy and if it works great. If not I'm out basically nothing. * I do have to inject between my normal T shots but really whats one more injection every 10 days.*


*
*

Why not just inject it with your "T"? It's a great way to make sure that there's no leftover "T" in the syringe.

Also, in a earlier post, I think you said you take 7mcg. Do you mean 700mcg? Most of it is 1000mcg/ml. I've been scooting along with 1ml/wk.

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## BOB89

I am injecting with my T on days that I'm scheduled. But since I inject T every 5 days so between I inject just the B. 

So for example it would be 

Monday 1/2 cc T, 1 1/2 ccs of B in the same shot

Weds or thurs 2 ccs of B complex

Saturday 1/2 cc T, 1 1/2 cc of B in same shot

I didn't think it was right when I typed it the first time I'll have to look at the bottle to get the correct dosage if I remember.

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## tubs

i only shoot 1cc of b12 once a week with my test cyp - is this way under dosed then? 

.......need to go look it up

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## zaggahamma

is b12 hard to get or easily prescribed...i'm thinking i could/would benefit...i actually was denied donating blood last couple times due to iron...would b12 help is it similar to iron or is iron a different b12?

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## tubs

> is b12 hard to get or easily prescribed...i'm thinking i could/would benefit...i actually was denied donating blood last couple times due to iron...would b12 help is it similar to iron or is iron a different b12?


iron is different, do you take a multi? It should have all the iron you need.

And my doc sells me the b12 I saw he had a case there so i just asked him for a bottle.

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## Vettester

> is b12 hard to get or easily prescribed...i'm thinking i could/would benefit...i actually was denied donating blood last couple times due to iron...would b12 help is it similar to iron or is iron a different b12?


jpk, you can get it from Lion at AR-R .

Are you saying that you've got anemic conditions? If so, I'm on the other end of the spectrum, you can have some of mine.

I wish I would have started B12 along time ago. My doc tested me a few years ago, and my score was 291 (range of 200-910). Like everything else, this doc treats the score and not the patient.

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## zaggahamma

weirdest thing...i started donating shortly after going on trt because rbc's were a lil high and though was good to unload iron for men and i always felt good(therapeutic) from doing so and did for a year or 2 straight but the last 2 times (a few months ago) i was rejected due to low b/iron/whatever they check to see if you can...they told me to eat broccoli and watermelon and shit like that...my diet did weaken during these times but i didnt think enough to show up in bloodwork...and about if i'm taking a multi....i have them but i need to start everyday

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## Vettester

Yeah, from what I understand the multi-vitamin barely gets any B12 in the system. I'm sure there's plenty of vitamin mfg's that will say differently, but enough research has led me to believe otherwise. I was taking all of my vitamins when my doc tested my B12 and it was still showing on the low end.

Are you saying that your iron levels never returned back to normal? In cases of hemochromatosis, donating blood is the protocol to keep the iron in check. I'm a carrier for this disease with extremely elevated ferritin levels. It's normal for the iron to drop when donating, but it should come back up again after a month or two.

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## BOB89

I looked and the Bcomplex I have is oddly dosed.

it does show 
5.0mcg of B12 but it is the only thing that there that shows a tenth of anything, the other b's in it are dosed in either mg or mcg not showing the tenths. I'm just not sure at this point. I may just go to straight b12. I'm not sure of the siginficance of the .0 on the b12 but think its odd. Since everythign else is dosed in whole numbers.

but it does contain

Nicotinamide(b3) which is suppose to be helpful with acne. I have noticed a drop of pop up zits since I started using the complex.


Probably just call the doc with a wtf question

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## zaggahamma

> Yeah, from what I understand the multi-vitamin barely gets any B12 in the system. I'm sure there's plenty of vitamin mfg's that will say differently, but enough research has led me to believe otherwise. I was taking all of my vitamins when my doc tested my B12 and it was still showing on the low end.
> 
> Are you saying that your iron levels never returned back to normal? In cases of hemochromatosis, donating blood is the protocol to keep the iron in check. I'm a carrier for this disease with extremely elevated ferritin levels. It's normal for the iron to drop when donating, but it should come back up again after a month or two.


not for sure vette...havent had labs or tried to donate in some time...been feeling tired and ALWAYS...wanting to /AND napping

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## BOB89

Well I haven't updated in awhile cause honestly there hasn't been much to say. Still taking somewhere in the neighborhood of 250 or so mg every 10 days, sometimes a hair less sometimes a hair more. Got a BF% done on a 5 point test the ohter day and am down to 13.6%. This is about 4% down from a few months ago.

The acne is in check athough a spot pops up here and there on occasion. Its not something that is a problem though. I'm sure the drop in BF and the increased amount of sunlight I'm getting is helping. I'm still using the B-complex I had before and am planning on using it up before switching to straight B12 or at least a heavier dose of B12. Have no idea if that has also affected the acne I was fighting. 

Everything else is running ship shape, have about 2 more months til blood work.

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## zaggahamma

good news bro

congrats on the chiseling

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## BOB89

funny thing is that I really don't see it even looking in the mirror. Now if I take an older picture I see it right off. I guess we learn to see whats in front of us day to day and don't notice the changes. 

I really think that extra BF% was the issue with my E2 being slightly out of spec. Since its dropped the acne is basically gone. Of course it could be any of the other things I've done to prevent it as well or a combo of them.

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## BOB89

Well had to make a small change in my dosing. I phone ordered a refill last week and went to pick it up a couple days later at Walmart. They said they didn't have any test at all and that they might get some early the following week. 

So I went back and they handed me 6 1 ml vials of a dif manufactor. This is instead of my 10ml of watson I had been getting. They said they will not have a regular supply for the for see able future and I needed to order a week or more ahead. 

Well a 1 ml vail is a bitch to deal with when your using odd amounts several times a week. So I'm goign to try a 200ml on a every 7 day schedule for a while. I still have a full 10ml sitting but I think I'll use up these 1 ml vials leading up to my Dr appointment in early August. I have blood work the last week of July. So we'll see what kind of numbers I have at that time. then I'll talk to the dr to see what can be done to avoid shortages in the future if anything.

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## zaggahamma

> Well had to make a small change in my dosing. I phone ordered a refill last week and went to pick it up a couple days later at Walmart. They said they didn't have any test at all and that they might get some early the following week. 
> 
> So I went back and they handed me 6 1 ml vials of a dif manufactor. This is instead of my 10ml of watson I had been getting. They said they will not have a regular supply for the for see able future and I needed to order a week or more ahead. 
> 
> Well a 1 ml vail is a bitch to deal with when your using odd amounts several times a week. So I'm goign to try a 200ml on a every 7 day schedule for a while. I still have a full 10ml sitting but I think I'll use up these 1 ml vials leading up to my Dr appointment in early August. I have blood work the last week of July. So we'll see what kind of numbers I have at that time. then I'll talk to the dr to see what can be done to avoid shortages in the future if anything.


plus u lost 4ml....i would have had it transferred if possible...maybe find a pharm thats got their shiat together

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## BOB89

i didn't lose any, they showed it as a partial fill. So when they get more I get 4 more vails. 

But I have decided not to go wtih 200mg a week in one dose. I got about 5-6 days in and felt terrible may have been something else but figured its worth the trouble dealign with pulling from those tiny vials to not even think about it being the issue.

And the issue of supply comes up when trying to find another local pharm. My insurance pays for Walmart. And anythign else comes out at an increased cost unless walmart just doesn't carry it. Note I used the words carry not have on hand. And regardless of whether they have any Walmart carries Test C. I only have 3 weeks til I'm in the Dr office and I'll see about getting a second script for Test E or something to have on hand in case Walmart runs out. He over supplies me with C anyway with a script for 10ml a month(I use less than 5). So I may just need to fill it every month and build a stock pile. I always stayed1 vial ahead anyway, may stay 2 or 3 ahead for awhile.

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## zaggahamma

> i didn't lose any, they showed it as a partial fill. So when they get more I get 4 more vails. 
> 
> But I have decided not to go wtih 200mg a week in one dose. I got about 5-6 days in and felt terrible may have been something else but figured its worth the trouble dealign with pulling from those tiny vials to not even think about it being the issue.
> 
> And the issue of supply comes up when trying to find another local pharm. My insurance pays for Walmart. And anythign else comes out at an increased cost unless walmart just doesn't carry it. Note I used the words carry not have on hand. And regardless of whether they have any Walmart carries Test C. I only have 3 weeks til I'm in the Dr office and I'll see about getting a second script for Test E or something to have on hand in case Walmart runs out. He over supplies me with C anyway with a script for 10ml a month(I use less than 5). So I may just need to fill it every month and build a stock pile. I always stayed1 vial ahead anyway, may stay 2 or 3 ahead for awhile.


cool....and thats what i did and most do (stock pile) with their rx

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## BOB89

stock piling begins next week when I can order another 10ml. 

I'm in for blood work in a week and a half. It will be day of shot. Need to still call and make sure I'm getting E2 done as it isn't standard for my dr. 

been in the sun alot recently and half just a spot or two of acne on my sholders. nothing major and I only mention it in regards to the E2 check I want done. I have decided if E2 is still high and I can't get a script from my dr. I will probably go the liquidex route.

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## BOB89

Spent some time trying to find any information about the Test shortage that the US seems to be having. Found this from the American Society of Health-System Pharmacists.

http://www.ashp.org/Import/PRACTICEA...in.aspx?id=638


seems that a few companies expect to have some test out there in late july(TEVA)

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## ultrasharp

How long has anyone stayed on these prescriptions/injections and for what length do you think you'll continune with them. If anyone has stopped cold turkey with theirs, how have you felt. Reason I'm asking is I have a scheduled appt in few weeks with my doc and these are some questions that i'd like to ask.

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## ReBilly

If I miss my shot, by day 9 I crash and it takes 2 weeks for me to get back to feeling more normal. My total test wasn't even that low when I started (474) and I was getting 180 / week. At that dose, my level was stable around 800ish total. When I added HCG the same dosage had me floating around 1000 and I started converting so I had to drop my dose to 160 / week and added Arimidex . Not sure where my levels are yet but I feel OK again.

That being said, I can't see your dosages and your timing being a very effective cure for your low T symptoms. You *probably* won't even get your total T very high, and will likely be subject to repeated crashes.

There's a good reason why the normal protocol most everybody follows is a weekly shot with some even doing 2x / week. Because your body is gonna use it all up and you'll be low every time you shoot instead of letting it get to a good level and stay there.

Just my 2 cents

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## ReBilly

Sorry, I didn't realize this post had 4 pages and I responded only to page one so I probably sound like a moron. Glad you're dialing it in :-)

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## BOB89

Its ok there is always at least one moron here everytime I check in

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## BOB89

Had some intresting things going on this last week. I stopped by my pharamcy about the first of last week, they said that they currently had no test C but should have some later in the week. I went back on Sat to fill my script. At the counter the girl told me that they had 8 1cc vials however they couldn't actaully give them to me right now. She explained that since they didn't have enough test at the moment i had to wait til one month after my last fill date. Which was two days later. Normally I can refill within a week of my "due date"

So I went back today and the same girl told me that they had my test but now my insurance was being difficult. I then found out that the special aurthorazation for my test that my insurance had given me had expired. It was fixed in a quick phone call but was frustrating none the less.

On top of that today was bloodwork day for my appointment next week. They only took two vials this time and no urine so I'm not sure what tests were being run. My insurance only pays for so many dif tests a year so we'll see what was run. 


I've banked around 12mls on top of what I picked up today. I should have a new script next week and I'll try to keep it above what I actaully take so I can bank some more just to be safe. Although I must say its tempting to consider a cycle when I have this much just sitting around.

----------


## Vettester

Sounds frustrating to say the least. I hear ya man, I received my new order last week, which included a 10ml bottle of cyp. They must have wanted to make sure that I don't lose sleep with any of these shortages, so they sent me an extra 2 bottles = 20ml para gratis. Guess I'm set for another deca run down the road in a few months.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## BOB89

Vetteman, do you get yours from Compounding pharm or regular pharm via mail order?

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## Vettester

> Vetteman, do you get yours from Compounding pharm or regular pharm via mail order?


Yeah, it's compounding. Guess some of the shortage stuff is just name brands only.

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## BOB89

thats what it appears. Although the pharmacy did have 100mg strength on hand which they said was unusual. The link I posted said that some of the manufactors were going to start putting 100mg back in stock around the end of July so it sort of makes sense. 

I won't have a problem using 100mg as long as I got the total I needed. I've never felt a dif between injecting <1cc and injecting up to 3ccs(t adn Bcomplex)as far as pain goes. 


I've considering asking about a compounding pharamcy but I'm pretty sure insurance would balk at paying for it.

----------


## BOB89

Well went to the doctor Friday and got my lab results and such.

Everything but t and e2 were well within spec. 

With 
Test being 1100 with a <850 range
E2 being 85 with a <52 range

Well we discussed options and such as well as my continued fight with some bacne. We came together with a slight cut to my Test C to .4cc every 5 days(was at .5 e5d) and adding in Adex as .25 e3d to start. THen at 1 month we will look at where I am, how I'm feeling and adjust. The Adex dosage is a tad low by some standards but I function sexually fine even at the moment being in the almost double reccomended range and figure a slight descrease followed by an adjustment was a better course of action than trying to hit the nail on the head on the first pitch.

As far as the Bacne we both have little doubt its an e2 related problem and once E2 is back well with in range if it continues I'll probably be refered to a dermotologist. 

He didn't balk at the 1100 score and said although it was high he was still good with it. THe E2 was only a slight concern and I had to push a little more for the adex instead of just a cut to my test c. Which is how we ended up with both. 

I'm not sure how the adex is going to affect me and am honestly a little concerned about sexual sides. He offered a script for viagra just in case to get me by but I just had him note it so I could call it in to his office if I needed it until I could adjust to the change in levels. I don't have a e2 number from when I started TRT but functioned fine at that point so like I said I'm going to be gentle on dropping it.

----------


## zaggahamma

i like the plan....keep us posted

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## BOB89

well called today to see if insurance was going to cover my script. My dr forgot to include dosing on the script(it was for 5 1mg tabs or about 6 weeks or so). So they put in a call to him and I should know tomorrow. I mention this because it may infact be much much cheaper for me to obtain A-dex as a research chem then through a pharamacy even with a script and possibely even with my insurance.

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## zaggahamma

> well called today to see if insurance was going to cover my script. My dr forgot to include dosing on the script(it was for 5 1mg tabs or about 6 weeks or so). So they put in a call to him and I should know tomorrow. I mention this because it may infact be much much cheaper for me to obtain A-dex as a research chem then through a pharamacy even with a script and possibely even with my insurance.


insurance *usually* covers it to a mild copay as it is name brand only at the present...
i've heard a couple post where the insurance co. was whining about "its for women only"...blah blah blah...when i had insurance they paid it all but 25 bucks this was for 30 pills which prolly goes for 300 if out of pocket (rough estimate)

----------


## BOB89

my insurance is fairly easy to deal with but requires an expemtion for some scripts, such as my test. I can only beleive that they will also cover the adex, but at around 60 for 30mgs as a RC, I'm betting the price is higher than my copay on the same amount.

My Dr is just fine with me using a research version of Adex.

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## BOB89

The adex ended up being a non-issue to get. Co-pay per month no other issues. 

I took .5 of the adex yesterday and will continue at .25 every three days. 

ON the test I decided to not drop to .4 every 5 days but instead go to .5 every 6. This is because I'm still getting those damn little 1cc bottles at the Pharamcy. So to doses per bottle is alot easier than trying to get .2 out of bottle.

I'm going to do some searching myself but what is the half life of E2 and also A-dex? Curious as to when I might notice a change. Even over the last day and a half I feel like my face has lost 3lbs itself. Maybe I was bloated and maybe its all in my head.

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## ds53

Test Cyp in me takes a nose dive after day 5. After discussion with dr he had no problem with me taking my dose on day 5 instead of 7. It made quite of bit of difference as my blood levels were more stable and didnt have the couple days of being so randy only to be down by day 7. No more mood swings and alway feeling strong. It makes your blood test more accurate and easier to find the right dosage. The half life of cyp is 6-7 days, with a active life of 15 days. Most charts I have looked at confirm that blood levels really start dropping on day 5 or 6. My testicles actually came back to normal size after a few months of keeping my test leveled out.

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## BOB89

Well a little bit of internetting gave me the answers I was looking for(I think) it appears that A-dex's half life is right at 72 hours or 3 days, so I should be dead on using it every 3 days. E2 appears to be every 13 hours up to 36 hours depending on the source of information.

----------


## BOB89

Well I've now been on the A-dex through 3 doses. So far I've noticed that my back has less active bacne going on. I would attribute this to the A-Dex but I was also in the sun for several days and that tends to clear me up as well. 

I have noticed a marked drop off in the gym. Today I ended up having to drop 10% out of my squats sets to get through them. Not sure if its the A-Dex or simply an off day. Anyone have any experience in performance drop off after starting a-dex?

other things such as sexual function and mental outlook seem to be unchanged, which is good.

----------


## BOB89

I am considering going to .25 eod at this point. Once my sunburn went away they bacne has returned although not as serious as before. I am going to give it to the end of this split pill, which will total 7 doses. I had about 3 days completely clear of new blemishes after the first .5 dose but like I said it was also at the time of my sunburn. 

My gym funk continues as well sadly. Not sure what that is about.

----------


## Vettester

Bob, are you still going to do lab work around the first week of Sept.? Curious how it turns out. IMO, I think your "bacne" issues would diminish a bit if you get your "T" score down between 600-800 for a bit. Whatever the score is, I'm also curious what your "Free" testosterone score is and/or SHBG and albumin levels. How long has your gym "funk" been going on?

----------


## highnmighty

> Test Cyp in me takes a nose dive after day 5. After discussion with dr he had no problem with me taking my dose on day 5 instead of 7. It made quite of bit of difference as my blood levels were more stable and didnt have the couple days of being so randy only to be down by day 7. No more mood swings and alway feeling strong. It makes your blood test more accurate and easier to find the right dosage. The half life of cyp is 6-7 days, with a active life of 15 days. Most charts I have looked at confirm that blood levels really start dropping on day 5 or 6. My testicles actually came back to normal size after a few months of keeping my test leveled out.


I just started Test Cyp and like you stated the 6th day was a big crash! I am thinking of dosing E5D like you. Have a couple of questions: How is your libido? Are you using an AI? Also are you running 100mg E5D? Personally if I do this protocol I will probably do 80 mgs I don't want to get bloated I want to stay lean.

----------


## BOB89

Vetteman,

It started just before I started with the adex, its not odd for me to have off days in the gym since I lift high % singles on alot of lifts, but for it to continue for several weeks isn't normal. I'm not really sure on the effect of adex on recovery or how long the adjustment may be for my body going from high E2 to a more normal number. 

I don't have any lab work scheduled at this point. Like I've said my doc goes alot by how I feel and in the case of the adex it will be up to .5 eod or my til sides go away. Lab work will be ordered if I have any sides that might be from the adex as well. 

I'm thinking about dropping my dose to 100/80mg every 6/7 with the addition of the Adex, as I might not feel the drop off like I did before at day 6. 

Highnmighty,

My libido has been pretty consistent through out this process and even before I started on TRT. I guess i'm one of the lucky ones that didn't have sexual sides from low t. I do notice an increase in desire since I started the higher dosing of T. Currently I'm on 100mg every 5 days but I actually am dosing right at 80mg every 5 days. Adex at the current is.25 every 2.5 days. The day of my shot and then halfway between shots. 

Like I said I am considering cutting back further on my T to maybe 80mg every 6 days and then move the adex to every 3 days.(day of shot and then half way between shots) May also consider .5 adex on that schedule as well depending. I can basically dose the adex up to .5 every other day if I want. My doc gives me alot of leeway in what I actaully dose. 

My body fat hovers around 15% at 220lbs bodyweight. Which is just fine with me I know going a little lower won't hurt me but I'm comfortable with my apperance at this size and would consider dropping the BF% if need be.

----------


## highnmighty

> Vetteman,
> 
> It started just before I started with the adex, its not odd for me to have off days in the gym since I lift high % singles on alot of lifts, but for it to continue for several weeks isn't normal. I'm not really sure on the effect of adex on recovery or how long the adjustment may be for my body going from high E2 to a more normal number. 
> 
> I don't have any lab work scheduled at this point. Like I've said my doc goes alot by how I feel and in the case of the adex it will be up to .5 eod or my til sides go away. Lab work will be ordered if I have any sides that might be from the adex as well. 
> 
> I'm thinking about dropping my dose to 100/80mg every 6/7 with the addition of the Adex, as I might not feel the drop off like I did before at day 6. 
> 
> Highnmighty,
> ...


That's great, your doc is smart to realize that one size doesn't fit all in TRT! Like you I am trying to use common sense in this process. I just started TRT last week and today was my second shot of 100mg. Now, yesterday the 6th day I felt like I crashed so I am going to repeat this week same thing and see if on Tuesday I feel like crap again. If I do then I know where the half life is w/ my body. Then I will probably switch it up to dosing E5D. Also I am going to do 200 iu HCG this Sunday to see if it will help buffering the drop on Tuesday & Wednesday. 

By the way... Are you doing any HCG?

----------


## BOB89

No HCG for me. I could probably get some but just don't see the need for me at this point in my life. I've had little to no shrinkage and fertility is a non-issue.


As for the bacne, its no longer the deep cyst type that I did have but now consists of small white head almost pimple sized spots. Which is good cause the cystic stuff hurt but is bad cause its still there. Because I am sticking with every 5 day injection schedule I'm going to go to .25 every injection day and the mid-point day. We'll see what I end up with in a month or so. After that its up to .5 every 3 days then on to .5 eod, beyond that its a trip to the dermotologist.

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## BOB89

Well it seems I may have hit my sweet spot finally. THe bacne is almost a memory with just a sore or two left on my back which is pretty much what I had before TRT anyway. I feel pretty decent and my energy level feels good. 

I'm still dragging in the gym but today was my first day back in almost 2 weeks so I expected to be a hair off. I'll find out how the rest worked out for me in the coming weeks as I get back to it completely.

As of right now I am taking .4cc of Test C every 5 days with .25 of adex the day of the shot and the middle day(or eodish)

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## leenco12

> i can say i know how you feel...i went through kind of the same thing make a long story short.150 mg week fits me great,feel great etc etc etc.you will get it right,but as the others have said most people feel better and are more stable just taking weekly injections..good luck


I'm going to settle into 150 every 10-12 days for a month or two and see how it feels. THen based on that I'll make my judgement call then of whether to go up with dosage or frequency. I'll try to keep this updated as I go.

__________________
watch movies online

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## BOB89

Its been a month or so since I've updated this, 


I've had to adjust my adex dose slightly, I started getting some discomfort in my knees and sholders at .25 EOD so I dropped it to E3D once the acne had cleared. Right now I only have one active spot on my sholder and hope that continues with a E3D dose. 

Next bloodwork will be at the end of Decemeber so that I can get it in on this years deducatable.

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## zaggahamma

> Its been a month or so since I've updated this, 
> 
> 
> I've had to adjust my adex dose slightly, I started getting some discomfort in my knees and sholders at .25 EOD so I dropped it to E3D once the acne had cleared. Right now I only have one active spot on my sholder and hope that continues with a E3D dose. 
> 
> Next bloodwork will be at the end of Decemeber so that I can get it in on this years deducatable.


what other results are you seeing

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## BOB89

not sure what you mean by results.

If your talking about from the adex, then I guess the only noticable thing is the bacne issue. I've had a slight decrease in sex drive since starting to take it which I thought odd but doesn't worry me at this point. 

As far as TRT goes, 

I'm still in the gym and have seemed to get over the stall point I had a month or so ago. My bf remains around 15% and my weight has been fairly constant. Which is another weird thing since I thought I would see a drop in weight if my e2 dropped, even if it was just water. 

As far as mood and mental wellbeing, I guess you could say I've been a hair more postive since I started the adex, although I have also noticed that I've fought some absent mindedness as well. Not sure if they are related to the adex or something else. 

Does that answer your question, if not I can try again.

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## zaggahamma

> not sure what you mean by results.
> 
> If your talking about from the adex, then I guess the only noticable thing is the bacne issue. I've had a slight decrease in sex drive since starting to take it which I thought odd but doesn't worry me at this point. 
> 
> As far as TRT goes, 
> 
> I'm still in the gym and have seemed to get over the stall point I had a month or so ago. My bf remains around 15% and my weight has been fairly constant. Which is another weird thing since I thought I would see a drop in weight if my e2 dropped, even if it was just water. 
> 
> As far as mood and mental wellbeing, I guess you could say I've been a hair more postive since I started the adex, although I have also noticed that I've fought some absent mindedness as well. Not sure if they are related to the adex or something else. 
> ...


yes..(maybe a lil more detail on "getting over a stall point"...have you added significant weight to your lifts?).....
......sounds like your slowly progressing...

we'll be looking for your next update and that bloodwork result from december

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## BOB89

as far as lifting goes, I was working a pretty aggressive Singles progression on Deadlift(HEPBURN)although I worked up to singles at 100% of my 1 rep I just wasn't making any progress on moving my single rep max up in fact missing some lifts at times. I've since reset to a less aggressive progression based on triples on deads. So far it seems to be moving along nicely. 

my other lifts are moving although slowly which is fine for me. I'm going to miss my goals for the year but looking back I based them on last years progress which I should have realized couldn't continue. 

As far as the E2 control I'm just not sure if the adex was the way to go. Has anyone heard of being overly sensitive to it where small doses cause much larger than intended effects.

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## BOB89

well the last month or so has been intresting to say the least. I'm not a huge fan of my adex at this point. I feel like I've been bouncing for the last month on it. I just can't seem to settle into a dosage that my body likes. The EOD was good at first but then the joint discomfort started. So I moved to .25 E3D and the acne stopped then after about 3 weeks started again. 

I have 2 more months til blood work is scheduled. I need to stay on a dosage consistently until then but I'm not really sure what I should do. The .25 EOD seems like too much adex as the symtoms of low E2 popped up fairly quickly but E3D seems like too little as the acne showed back up. I thought about staying on the E3D schedule and just dealing with the acne til I get a blood work results. Also at E3Ds I had a noticable drop in libido after the 3 weeks. Which is consistent with low e2 but could also be high e2(the acne being the indicator)

Right now however I've returned to EOD until I can get the acne gone again. Then I'll go to E3D through my blood work. 


I need to ask again has anyone heard of people having an drastic out of proportion reaction to Adex. where a normal dosage casues drastic shifts in E2 levels.

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## pyramid

I am very new to this to, but what I have learned is that the guys on this site are more knowledgable and helpful than either my family doctor or the endo he refered me to. My endo prescribed me HCG to run with my 100mg a week of test cyp, he told me to use 2500iu 3x aweek, after talking with the guys on this site found out the correct dose for me was closer to 250-300iu 3x a week and a dose as high as the doc prescribed would likely do more harm than good. So for me I trust this site for dosing info and I use my doc to write scripts, assuming your blood work is ok.

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## zaggahamma

> I am very new to this to, but what I have learned is that the guys on this site are more knowledgable and helpful than either my family doctor or the endo he refered me to. My endo prescribed me HCG to run with my 100mg a week of test cyp, he told me to use 2500iu 3x aweek, after talking with the guys on this site found out the correct dose for me was closer to 250-300iu 3x a week and a dose as high as the doc prescribed would likely do more harm than good. So for me I trust this site for dosing info and I use my doc to write scripts, assuming your blood work is ok.


that is what most do....not only this site but research will tell u more than MOST doctors....SOME doctors know/care/study

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## BOB89

I figure the best thing to do is what I'm doing right now, get back to a base level where I know I'm not high and try to work from there. I'm considering working at .25 e3d but cutting my test dose back a hair. With adex's halflife being roughly 3 days I have concerns about going over that as far as dosing. Like I've said I'm starting to believe that I'm just really sensitive to adex and may consider another option for E2 control. My bodyfat still is in the 15% range on a pinch test but bodyweight has increased to roughly 225. I'm also not sure how much the extra size is effecting dosage although BF% is roughly the same the total amount of fat has increase with the weight increase. 


My dr lets me work within his boundaries so I'm very lucky there. A little more a little less doesn't matter to him as long as I'm getting the results. My bloodwork is just to make sure that we are on track over all. 

For the next several weeks I'm going to do my best to control any other factors that may be leading to the acne and other sides.

In a possibly unrelated note, I'm feeling pretty scatter brained recently.

----------


## zaggahamma

> I figure the best thing to do is what I'm doing right now, get back to a base level where I know I'm not high and try to work from there. I'm considering working at .25 e3d but cutting my test dose back a hair. With adex's halflife being roughly 3 days I have concerns about going over that as far as dosing. Like I've said I'm starting to believe that I'm just really sensitive to adex and may consider another option for E2 control. My bodyfat still is in the 15% range on a pinch test but bodyweight has increased to roughly 225. *I'm also not sure how much the extra size is effecting dosage* although BF% is roughly the same the total amount of fat has increase with the weight increase. 
> 
> 
> My dr lets me work within his boundaries so I'm very lucky there. A little more a little less doesn't matter to him as long as I'm getting the results. My bloodwork is just to make sure that we are on track over all. 
> 
> For the next several weeks I'm going to do my best to control any other factors that may be leading to the acne and other sides.
> 
> In a possibly unrelated note, I'm feeling pretty scatter brained recently.


has that been proven to matter?

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## BOB89

it was just a thought. My thinking is that a larger person might require a dif dosage than a smaller one, more based on me having more total bodyfat although the same %. I think I've gained 20lbs since starting TRT. 

I haven't been able to find any studies about physical size effecting dosage for TRT but I honestly haven't looked very hard. 

I may not have looked in the right places but there doesn't seem to be alot of info out there on dosing TRT since it appears that each person's body is effected so differntly. I know there are general guidlines to start with. 

Am I making any sense here or have I lost it?

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## zaggahamma

> it was just a thought. My thinking is that a larger person might require a dif dosage than a smaller one, more based on me having more total bodyfat although the same %. I think I've gained 20lbs since starting TRT. 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any studies about physical size effecting dosage for TRT but I honestly haven't looked very hard. 
> 
> I may not have looked in the right places but there doesn't seem to be alot of info out there on dosing TRT since it appears that each person's body is effected so differntly. I know there are general guidlines to start with. 
> 
> Am I making any sense here or have I lost it?


ur making sense (at making your point)...and i've heard that posed as a possibility but i've never heard it proved or disproved and also havent felt the need to look for the answer...but my gut says no....weight/mass/lbm shouldnt make a diff on hormones...especially not fat...fat seems to be a precursor to elevating estro

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## BOB89

well I was speaking of both my adex and test dosage as far as being bodyweight/fat dependant. Reading it I didn't do a good job of making it clear. I'm really just not happy with whats been going on since I started the adex. I despise the idea of going on acutane though(which is my other viable option).

----------


## zaggahamma

> well I was speaking of both my adex and test dosage as far as being bodyweight/fat dependant. Reading it I didn't do a good job of making it clear. I'm really just not happy with whats been going on since I started the adex. I despise the idea of going on acutane though(which is my other viable option).


well i hope u get it dialed in where you can be comfortable....at 15% how close to your goal are you?

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## BOB89

well after almost 2 weeks of every other day .25 I seem to be back to where i would like to be. I'm dosing at 100mg every 5 days at the present. The acne is back to a spot or two here or there which is just a hair more than I had before I ever started this. I'm going to shift to e3d in another week or so and ride that til blood work. The test will remain at 100 e5ds. 


The 15% is just about 3% short of where I would like to end up as far as body fat would go. My goal weight is 230-235 at 12% which is another 10lbs to put on. I figure I should hit it sometime in early summer/late spring of next year pretty easy as far as the weight goes with a cut to follow to 12%.

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## zaggahamma

> well after almost 2 weeks of every other day .25 I seem to be back to where i would like to be. I'm dosing at 100mg every 5 days at the present. The acne is back to a spot or two here or there which is just a hair more than I had before I ever started this. I'm going to shift to e3d in another week or so and ride that til blood work. The test will remain at 100 e5ds. 
> The 15% is just about 3% short of where I would like to end up as far as body fat would go. My goal weight is 230-235 at 12% which is another 10lbs to put on. I figure I should hit it sometime in early summer/late spring of next year pretty easy as far as the weight goes with a cut to follow to 12%.


i also like that weight and body fat although for me usually 12% is around 220-225

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## BOB89

I think I can carry 240ish pretty easy. I'm hoping it levels out around there. Time will tell. Worst case is still better than where I was 3 years ago.

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## go2failure

> Another weird thing I've noticed is that I'm having more real/lucid dreams since I started TRT. Not sure if this is because I'm sleeping better or what, anyone else notice this. 
> 
> The first week after my first injection I felt like a 12 year old girl as I was almost giddy and giggley, I haven't gotten that kind of lift since.


Yes I did notice that! I found myself having 2 or 3 dreams a nights, remembering each one. Considering I haven't remembered dreaming in years, that's definitely a plus!

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## go2failure

> I have pictures of what TRT did for me in 4 months.


Post these, I'm interested to see the difference. Thanks!

----------


## go2failure

> I figure the best thing to do is what I'm doing right now, get back to a base level where I know I'm not high and try to work from there. I'm considering working at .25 e3d but cutting my test dose back a hair. With adex's halflife being roughly 3 days I have concerns about going over that as far as dosing. Like I've said I'm starting to believe that I'm just really sensitive to adex and may consider another option for E2 control. My bodyfat still is in the 15% range on a pinch test but bodyweight has increased to roughly 225. I'm also not sure how much the extra size is effecting dosage although BF% is roughly the same the total amount of fat has increase with the weight increase. 
> 
> 
> My dr lets me work within his boundaries so I'm very lucky there. A little more a little less doesn't matter to him as long as I'm getting the results. My bloodwork is just to make sure that we are on track over all. 
> 
> For the next several weeks I'm going to do my best to control any other factors that may be leading to the acne and other sides.
> 
> In a possibly unrelated note, I'm feeling pretty scatter brained recently.


On ******** board, a specialist posts there with the forum name KSMAN. He suggests 1 mg total arimidex per week split into 2 or 3 does per 100mg of test used per week for normal arimidex responders. For example, if you are on 100mgs of test per week you would split your does into .50mg mon/thurs . However, he does believe there are some overresponders to arimidex and because of that he recommends a blood test every other week to find the sweet spot for those people. 

Some key points he highlights in one of the stickies there is that too low of e2 levels causes libido problems and so does too high of e2. He also points out that too low e2 also causes brain fog just like too little testosterone . So finding the sweet spot for arimidex may be the key for you if your TT is in the 800-900 range. Does anyone know if arimidex comes in .5mg pills?

----------


## zaggahamma

> On ******** board, a specialist posts there with the forum name KSMAN. He suggests 1 mg total arimidex per week split into 2 or 3 does per 100mg of test used per week for normal arimidex responders. For example, if you are on 100mgs of test per week you would split your does into .50mg mon/thurs . However, he does believe there are some overresponders to arimidex and because of that he recommends a blood test every other week to find the sweet spot for those people. 
> 
> Some key points he highlights in one of the stickies there is that too low of e2 levels causes libido problems and so does too high of e2. He also points out that too low e2 also causes brain fog just like too little testosterone. So finding the sweet spot for arimidex may be the key for you if your TT is in the 800-900 range. Does anyone know if arimidex comes in .5mg pills?


this is old news to this board....

and how long does mr. ksman want to continue to test blood every other week for....eternity? u dont mention  :Wink: 

btw,

welcome to ar

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## Vettester

Yes, I've had Anastrozole compounded at 0.5mg capsules.

----------


## go2failure

> this is old news to this board....
> 
> and how long does mr. ksman want to continue to test blood every other week for....eternity? u dont mention 
> 
> btw,
> 
> welcome to ar


I'd ask him if you're curious, he posts on t.-.n.a.t.i.o.n. Is there a thread you saved somewhere with that information? I haven't seen any of that old news you're referring to in my search queries. thanks!

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## go2failure

> Yes, I've had Anastrozole compounded at 0.5mg capsules.


Was going to suggest splitting a pill if it was made at that strength.

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## zaggahamma

> I'd ask him if you're curious, he posts on t.-.n.a.t.i.o.n. Is there a thread you saved somewhere with that information? I haven't seen any of that old news you're referring to in my search queries. thanks!


i only concurred mr. ksman and about your arimidex question i've only heard name brand arimidex coming in 1mg tablets and like u said ppl use pill cutters for .5 and .25 doses

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## zaggahamma

also if u think about what i posted you will agree with my question and should question that yourself....could u imagine doing bloodwork every other week....i know i've never heard of this

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## go2failure

> also if u think about what i posted you will agree with my question and should question that yourself....could u imagine doing bloodwork every other week....i know i've never heard of this


Bob89, what KSMAN has his patients do who appear to be overresponsers to arimidex is take a blood test every other week until they nail down the ratio for test and arimidex. In your case, it may be worth looking into as far as making sure your levels are correct. Afterwards, you should be on a normal blood test frequency. In my case, normal means every 3-6 months. I prefer 3 right now though because of the travel required with my work.

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## zaggahamma

> Bob89, what KSMAN has his patients do who appear to be overresponsers to arimidex *is take a blood test every other week until they nail down the ratio for test and arimidex.* In your case, it may be worth looking into as far as making sure your levels are correct. Afterwards, you should be on a normal blood test frequency. In my case, normal means every 3-6 months. I prefer 3 right now though because of the travel required with my work.


 you corrected it ....there u go...but u quoted me and directed your post to the op

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## BOB89

As much fun blood work every 2 weeks sounds, I'll pass. Not only would my insurance cough up a lung but so would my pocketbook even once I covered the decutable. The idea that someone addressed people who have a profound reaction to adex is intresting to me though. 

I could honestly care less what my actual number is as long as I feel OK. The every 6 month bloodwork I do is just ot make sure I'm not too far out of spec. 

Right now I'm feeling really good, The adex dosage is settled at E2.5Ds until bloodwork and test will remain at 100mg every 5. My acne is at the moment down to 1 new spot in the last 2 days.

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## BOB89

Well its 2 days til my next blood draw. I'm curious as to what it ends up saying. The acne has bounced back and then gone again and seems to cycle back and forth. Although I still suspect e2 issues as the cause, I've been trying to eliminate other possible causes. Oddly enough I'm expereincing some sexual sides over the last month. Again they seem to ebb and flow. My mental outlook on life has remained pretty postive despite all this although bouts of foggy headness continue here and there.

Dosage has been consisent though with test being 100mg e5d and adex at .25 e2d. My actaul appointment isn't til early feb so I'm going to ask the lab to phone me with the test and e2 numbers and if e2 looks high I will probably increase my adex dosage til my dr appointment and take my chances as to what that ends up doing. I have a hard time believing that I'm way high or too low as far as E2 goes seeing as the dosage of test I'm using isn't a crazy amount and the adex is right around what is normally reccomended. 



I've had seroius thoughts about trying to stop TRT completely over the last month. The back and forth that I'm experiencing even with consitent dosing is demoralizing to say the least. I realize that isn't really an option for me at this point but it seems that since i added the adex I've been in flux. 

I honestly thought that 2 years in I would be dialed in. I've made some small adjustments which normally had a postive change but that change only lasted a short time before the sides returned. I'm not sure of the science behind this or if there is something else i should be looking at.

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## coonhunter

The whole point of trt is to maintain healthy levels. You have to inject every week. Your Dr should know that. You might want to see someone specializing in HRT . When I got started it took me a while to get it dialed in. I went off what was ordered but I started at 100mg every week and ended up at 200mg.And feel great. I went on TRT for the same reasons. I just needed the edge back from my youth.

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## BOB89

My issue isn't the frequency of injection or my Drs methods so I'm not sure what your addressing with your response. I inject 100mg every 5 days, but even with consistent and steady dosages I seem to not have a consisitent response. My meds are all US pharmacy and prescribed by my dr. 


I have made small adjustments during the last year which my dr is aware of. Most adjustments resulted in postive change but then after a period of time the side effects returned. I ran all adjustments long enough to provide a stable blood level at that dosage.

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## BOB89

Well I got my blood work done and went to call my dr's office and he was closed last week so I can't talk to him til monday. SO I get to go this weekend. I am allowed up to .25 of adex per day on my script and will probably jump to that over the weekend even without my blood results. Since the acne is back again I have to place my bets on high e2 rather than low caused by the adex. By Tuesday I should have my bloodwork results and can readjust then. I'm due for a call in to renew my adex script anyway so the timing is just about right for an increased dosage. I realize that .25 a day ends up being 1.75 a week which sounds high. My other option is to go to .5 every 3 days which results in an average dosage of 1.25 per week. 


T dosage is 1cc every 10 days but since I use a 1 cc vial I'm injecting more like 160mg or .4cc per injection. 

I need to do some more research on any outside causes of increased E2 conversion. My bodywieght is still around 225 with a bf% of a slightly increased 17% as of about a week ago. If my e2 is in range and my test is not way high(I dont' expect this) then I may have to go head and head to the endo if the Dr doesn't have a reasonable plan when I talk to him next week. 

I guess I could take this new year's eve and review what this year has been like on TRT and what I've done as far as dosage and such. I may just do that later tonight if I get a chance.


Edit:

Overnight I didn't have my logs handy but I did manage to do a little book work as well as figure my usage per week instead of E5D and E2D dosages. 

I am currently taking between 112-140 mg of Test C per week depending on the waste left in the needle(I have been told to figure a .10 for waste so the number is between .4 cc and .5 cc per injection) 

I am using .875mg of Adex per week when dosed at .25 eod.

The only guidline or suggestion I could find for adex use in comparison to Test use while on HRT says that it should be somewhere near 1mg per 100mg of test per week. Meaning I'm about 30% underdosed. I'll be intrested to see if the blood work reflects this or not. My max dose of adex(.25eod) would be closer to 1.75mg per week in relation to 140 mgs of test.

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## zaggahamma

once again bob...great post...always detailed and thorough..

from the looks of it, you may just have to deal with acne off and on...if youre other symptoms and gains are good it would sure be worth it to me...

as far as the waste in the pin or a lil in the vial...i never factor that and if i pull 1cc and the vial is 200mg per cc then i say i am taking 200mg and so on...just my .02 on that issue...

but real curious of the bloodwork and wish u the best.....anything else u care to mention (gains, etc.? is that 17% bf down or up from a month or so?)

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## BOB89

Well performance in the gym is like always for me, good days and bad days. I'm going to take the wise route at the begining of this year and reset everything to 80% and work a linear progression from there. It may cost me a month or two of progress but I don't need to be superman tommorrow. 

I think that trying to pull high percentage singles as often as I was without solid sleep on a regular basis just fried my CNS. I would gain then fall back through out last year. So i would make progress and hit my lifts then a few weeks later not be able to repeat that performance.

I put 100lbs on my 3 lift total but I should have had more in me. 

I normally won't care how much is left in the pin after I inject but I thought it was important to mention as I was using 10ml vials and accounted for that during the draw. And some of the ebb and flow became more noticable, about the time I went to the 1ml vials. So I've actually cut back through this year a considerable amount as well in frequency of injections. I think the more frequent injections(3-4days at one point) were off setting the high E2 where this lower dosage at E5D isn't enough to compensate. 

Last night I read that the ideal Test/E2 ratio is between 20:1 and 30:1 regardless of the amount of either. Not sure of the science on this but it seemed to make some sense. If I remeber I'll ask my dr freinds about it. 

The 17% is up from 15% a month or two ago. Of course the increase in bodyfat has been step in step with my side effects. I was as low as 13% at one point last year. Since we know that bodyfat plays a part in conversion of Test to E2 I'm going to try to lower it back to <15% over the next month or so. I am curious and of course will never know if the increased E2 is responsible for the increased BF% as little else has changed in the past 2 months or so.

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## zaggahamma

> Well performance in the gym is like always for me, good days and bad days. I'm going to take the wise route at the begining of this year and reset everything to 80% and work a linear progression from there. It may cost me a month or two of progress but I don't need to be superman tommorrow. 
> 
> I think that trying to pull high percentage singles as often as I was without solid sleep on a regular basis just fried my CNS. I would gain then fall back through out last year. So i would make progress and hit my lifts then a few weeks later not be able to repeat that performance.
> 
> I put 100lbs on my 3 lift total but I should have had more in me. 
> 
> I normally won't care how much is left in the pin after I inject but I thought it was important to mention as I was using 10ml vials and accounted for that during the draw. And some of the ebb and flow became more noticable, about the time I went to the 1ml vials. So I've actually cut back through this year a considerable amount as well in frequency of injections. I think the more frequent injections(3-4days at one point) were off setting the high E2 where this lower dosage at E5D isn't enough to compensate. 
> 
> Last night I read that the ideal *Test/E2 ratio is between 20:1 and 30:1* regardless of the amount of either. Not sure of the science on this but it seemed to make some sense. If I remeber I'll ask my dr freinds about it. 
> ...


nice post as usual...what i bolded is interesting...not sure i've heard that theory..yes be nice to follow up on that

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## BOB89

It had to due mostly with the ratio in regards to libido and sexual function. But I'm not sure where I found it right now. Basic idea was the test/e2 ratio being more important than the total e2. If I find it again ill post it

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## BOB89

Well my blood work was thursday and I took my last .5cc shot on Friday. At the same time I front loaded some Adex taking .5mg on Friday and Saturday with .25 on Sunday. I may have hit the nail on the head. The 3/4 erections I was having seem to be gone already as well as some of the foggy headedness I had noted several times in the last several months. I wonder now if I'm my ratio/e2 total was on the boderline of what my body will function on and it has been jumping back and forth. 

I should see my bw results mid-week and I'll post what I get over the phone. I expect to see a test number around 850 and a E2 of somewhere north of 50. (I'm totally guessing but I want to see how close I am)Which would show a 17:1 ratio or so. 

Edit:


I'm back to the Dr office in early Feb so I have the chance to provide another stable blood level test at this increased Adex dosage at that time if need be. The dr did question why I wanted to take my BW early and was understanding when I told him what was going on and also that I wanted to beat my insurance deductable as well. 

Also I must note that I had BW at one point in my first year prior to the onset of the acne which showed an elevated E2(>50)but with a fairly high Test value which resulted somewhere just north of 20:1. And at that time I had no side symptoms to speak of if I can remeber correctly. My last bloodwork in which my E2 was closing in on 100 I had a ratio of around well below 20:1.

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## BOB89

Well I called the Dr's office and got my adex script upped to 8 mg a month so I'll be on .25 a day until my appointment in about 5 weeks(if no problems come up). I asked for my bw results and total test was at only 689 and for some reason she couldn't find a E2 number. She had to look whether the number was just hiding or whether that test wasn't done. She said that she would call in a new order for E2 only but I figure its sort of pointless since I just changed dosages. I may call back just prior to my appointment and get it done so I have a number at appointement time to base any more changes on. Also had to order pins at walmart as they don't have any. I think its weird that with the increase of IM injection a pharmacy won't keep some IM length needles in stock. 

Since the switch to .25 a day last weekend I have a marked reduction in acne and improved sexual function. But this is typical anytime I change dosages across the board so I will have to wait and see if I'm finally in the ball park with my T/e2 ratio.

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## zaggahamma

good stuff....sorry bout the e2 missing on the bloodwork..proves more of what a 'GREAT" health system we have

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## BOB89

I'm hoping it wasn't missed and she just didn't find it on the paperwork. My bloodwork shold be about 5 pages or so on this one. I had a full screen done with 5 full vials of drawn blood plus urine. She only had a minute to look as they were busy and I can't believe he dropped the E2 after running it for the last several times and being on meds to control it.

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## zaggahamma

lets hope

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## BOB89

Well I'm down to a month til my drs visit and have been at a steady .25mg of Adex since my blood work two weeks ago. Like I said before upon the change of dosage my side effect symptoms seemed to want to go away. A week later I won't say they are back but they aren't completely gone. I understand that my body may still be adjusting to the lower E2 that the increase in Adex dosage should be causing but its still being a little frustrating(anyone want to share adjustment time knowledge). The back and forth I seem to get when an adjustment is made seems to be out of the ordinary. Its almost like I when I hit a level that my body likes that it attempts to compensate and it throws it back out of whack. I'm leaning towards another set of bw prior to my Dr appointment to get a accurate E2 reading. I may just stop at his office this next week and look through my last set of BW to see about E2 myself. 

The next step is another increase to my Adex dose after my Drs visit. I guess I could just take .5 on two days a week and .25 the other days, resulting in 2.25mg a week. That seems awful high to me though and I'm hesitant to go that route even with Drs supervision. 


My acne seems to have changed though. This summer before the adex dosage I had acne that was best described as Typical cystic acne. Deep and painful. what I have now has white heads and although they itch and feel Pinchy(best word I could come up with) aren't painful or hard like what I did have. In some cases the head simply scrapes off while scrubbing. Not sure if this should tell me anything about the cause or not. 

My mental function is still pretty postive, I still feel good about life and don't have the depression symptoms that are sometimes related to low/high E2.

Sexually I guess you could say there has been some change for the good. Although a week after changing adex dosage I was back to normal, since I have a lesser degree of fullness than I would like, but it is harder than the 3/4 erections I was having. My desire for sex is unchanged and remains good and fairly normal I think.

This makes me question the even higher dose of adex I am thinking about, as the week in which symptoms seemed to go away was a week when I pushed two days of .5 followed by .25 the rest of the week. Or the 2.25 total for the week. Curious to me.


I'm going to continue to stay on the dosage I have been though for the next month unless symptoms worsen or there is some other change that I can't forsee. Then one week from my appointment(3 weeks from now) I will either call for new bw or not. However I may have to move my Drs appointment as work has decided to schedule a meeting for me that day that I can't miss. Time will tell.

I am however down to 217 bodyweight but I do not have a BF% to go with that at the moment.(not sure what this is due to)

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## zaggahamma

> Well I'm down to a month til my drs visit and have been at a steady .25mg of Adex since my blood work two weeks ago. Like I said before upon the change of dosage my side effect symptoms seemed to want to go away. A week later I won't say they are back but they aren't completely gone. I understand that my body may still be adjusting to the lower E2 that the increase in Adex dosage should be causing but its still being a little frustrating(anyone want to share adjustment time knowledge). The back and forth I seem to get when an adjustment is made seems to be out of the ordinary. Its almost like I when I hit a level that my body likes that it attempts to compensate and it throws it back out of whack. I'm leaning towards another set of bw prior to my Dr appointment to get a accurate E2 reading. I may just stop at his office this next week and look through my last set of BW to see about E2 myself. 
> 
> The next step is another increase to my Adex dose after my Drs visit. I guess I could just take .5 on two days a week and .25 the other days, resulting in 2.25mg a week. That seems awful high to me though and I'm hesitant to go that route even with Drs supervision. 
> 
> 
> My acne seems to have changed though. This summer before the adex dosage I had acne that was best described as Typical cystic acne. Deep and painful. what I have now has white heads and although they itch and feel Pinchy(best word I could come up with) aren't painful or hard like what I did have. In some cases the head simply scrapes off while scrubbing. Not sure if this should tell me anything about the cause or not. 
> 
> My mental function is still pretty postive, I still feel good about life and don't have the depression symptoms that are sometimes related to low/high E2.
> 
> ...


the 217 is hard to judge seing how we only mentioned bf% before...

but youre going about this all the right way...you are being super patient with your doses and monitoring everything...it seems as if you have the one question in your mind about running the adex at .5 twice and then a few days at .25...i say do this after you get your bloodwork so you can try it one more time and then follow up with more labs and monitor your symptoms closely as you have been so you can finally dial this in

good work bro...hope it keeps getting better

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## BOB89

The weight change was from 225ish two weeks ago(at time of adex change). So it is a significant number although again there is no good way of knowing whether it is e2 related or from some minor tweaks I've made as I work back to <15%.

I want to get under 15% for the simple reason that it takes away one more X factor for E2 production. I've dropped booze for that reason as well. Even though I haven't been a heavy drinker in years I thought that it might be wise to go head dump it until I finally get a handle on this. 

The Adex dosage is a mystery to me in all honesty. Although there are some rough numbers that fly around for this much Adex v this much test, I seem to be well outside of this. My Dr has discussed an endo and I am tentitive to go that route as my dr's methods to my problems are in line with my own beliefs and it seems my needs. I'm afraid that an endo may not be as willing to make adjustments or prescribe a treatment that just doesn't fit. I considered anti-aging clinics but cost pretty much rules that out until I exhaust my options with my insurance. 

Like I was saying the Adex dosage is what confuses me. At this point I'm taking 1.75 mg a week and at max only 140mg of test and probably closer to 112mg. To move to a dose of 2.25 mg of adex(.25 5 days a week and .5 two days a week) seems excessive. 

At this point I couldn't make an adjustment to a heavier adex dose as I'm inside of 3 weeks for my appointment and I would like the ability to provide a stable blood level should i need to at that time or before(if last symptoms don't resolve). At that point I think I would consider the higher adex dose prior to and in perfernce to an endo consult. If I reach that point I think I'll push towards looking for another cause for my high/low E2 related symptoms. Of course that would be if the BW was with in reason and not excessively high or low. I still hold a belief that the bw numbers are secondary to actual symptoms.

I really don't want to consider a drop in my test dose which would be my other option for lowering E2, as I think the almost 700 score I have is right near the bottom of where most would suggest I try to stay. 

I guess I'm just thinking out loud about most of this at this point as much as asking questions or looking for feedback.


However I do have a question in regards to deca for anyone who reads this. Since deca converts to E2 at a much lower rate than Test in theroy is it possible to use a combo of Test and deca(or any other low converting substance) and achieve anything resambling the HRT type benifits of test by itself. I realize this is going way off label usage. Since I've only done some basic reading on Deca's benifits to joint health I do not understand how it react when used in the manner I'm speaking of. My gut tells me that it is probably not a viable option as a body needs test not deca.

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## BOB89

After doing some quick reading on Adex, it seems that a .5 mg dose resulted in a drop of roughly 50% in E2 levels in research. THere wasn't handy data on .25(I'll do more reading). However what I found intresting is that a 1mg a day dose resulted in basically the same drop. 

So just playing devils advocate if my test level was 700 and my E2 in the 80s that would result in an almost 9 to 1 ratio. Which is double that of what I found as being reccomended at 20-1.(t/e2) So a .25 dosage per day may still be underdosed in theroy. This makes me worry less about my reaction to the adex and gives me some hope that a solution can be found in a couple weeks. 

Why I convert at such a high rate is the next issue to take on should this on be resolved

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## zaggahamma

good stuff bob...

about test/deca (GREAT TRT COMBO)

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## BOB89

Picked up my script this morning and got a 10ml vial again. Which would be good except it now for 2 months instead of 6 1ml a month.

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## HALTEH

> good stuff bob...
> 
> about test/deca (GREAT TRT COMBO)


Yessir. I wanna do that combo after my Test-E/D-Bol cycle.

Deca and EQ are really catching my attention lately.

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## zaggahamma

> Yessir. I wanna do that combo after my Test-E/D-Bol cycle.
> 
> Deca and EQ are really catching my attention lately.


not tren ??

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## chopper999

> The question I have is what is the smallest dosage(weekly/bi-weekly) of test-c or Test-e that someone on here has had success with for HRT/TRT. I am intrested more in mood elavation and such then results in the gym or physical change(not that I'm discounting the postive effects of body change on mood)


G'day Bob - I am 47 years of age had blood test's done for low test levels and doc put me on 1 gel appilcation per day of Testogel which gives me 5mg of Testosterone in my blood system over 24 hours or I am absorbing 35mg of Testosterone per week - been on it 3 months had loads of more erections and wanting sex thoughts even went back to weight training and feeling better in the gym after 3.5 years lay off - My doc tells me I can take a max of 2 Testogel apps per day that would be 70 mg of Testosterone per week but to be honest I don't feel like I need the other appilcation not just yet anyway so to answer your question I am on the lowest dose of TRT / Testosterone you can get and I am having positve results - Cheers Chopper. :Wink/Grin:

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## BOB89

Well thats a wrap this thread is over I guess  :Smilie: 


thanks for chiming in Chopper, I'm glad your having good results on that low of dose. I have to assume your side effect free as well. What are your bloodlevels at that dose?


In news related to me I'm down to just 2 weeks to my next appointment. I've been steady on teh .25 mg of adex a day. The acne is oddly still there but in greatly reduced and tolerable levels. I'm not sure how much is new on a day to day basis and how much is just spots that are slowly healing over the course of a week or so. The 3/4 erections seem to be a thing of the past as well(knock on wood(no pun intended)). So I'm going into this visit feeling pretty postive at the moment. 

I'm going to do some more looking into prescription Deca as the joint benifits intrest me. I also had a freind reccomend IGF-1 as something to look at.

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## zaggahamma

> Well thats a wrap this thread is over I guess 
> 
> 
> thanks for chiming in Chopper, I'm glad your having good results on that low of dose. I have to assume your side effect free as well. What are your bloodlevels at that dose?
> 
> 
> In news related to me I'm down to just 2 weeks to my next appointment. I've been steady on teh .25 mg of adex a day. The acne is oddly still there but in greatly reduced and tolerable levels. I'm not sure how much is new on a day to day basis and how much is just spots that are slowly healing over the course of a week or so. The 3/4 erections seem to be a thing of the past as well(knock on wood(no pun intended)). So I'm going into this visit feeling pretty postive at the moment. 
> 
> I'm going to do some more looking into prescription Deca as the joint benifits intrest me. I also had a freind reccomend IGF-1 as something to look at.


good to know bro..we'll all be looking for those results

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## BOB89

I just realized that this thread is now over 2 years old. I'm not sure if that speaks well of my situation and my doc's methods or poorly of them.

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## zaggahamma

> I just realized that this thread is now over 2 years old. I'm not sure if that speaks well of my situation and my doc's methods or poorly of them.


of course you know i'll answer that  :Smilie: 

i think it obviously shows great patience and maturity....youre dealing with your body/health....its not like a quick pick on the lottery vs. filling out a card....one of the best individual posts documenting one individual's trt with very very good details...you're helping MANY with this post and it is appreciated by all

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## BOB89

JPKman,


thanks for stopping in as often as you do. Its nice to know that someone is willing to read all this. 

Since I always tend to post more when I've got an appointment coming up for some reason....



I haven't had any new acne in the last two days. The bumps and spots I had are starting to fade although some of them take a couple of weeks to go away so I still have alot of little red spots on my sholders. I also got the bill for my last blood work today, and my insurance refused payment on some of it. Not sure why I'll call monday. I assume at this point that they will only pay for some many tests in a given time frame and I exceeded that. 

I pulled heavy deads for the first time in a while Although I missed a +10PR I managed to get some good set work in. I don't know if I mentioned this before but I have been cutting my use of pre-workout stimulants down. My bloodpressure has been climbing over the past 6 months for no obvious reason. However today with the heavy deads looming I took a full load of pwo stims. probably shouldn't do that.


also sexual function appears to have normalized. I'm not the horny sex maniac I have been at some points during this process but physically I appear to be back to almost where i'd like to be.

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## zaggahamma

been a pleasure bro..

your thread is going to provide a lot of help to many ppl..

enjoy those deads...i'm gonna have to leave em be for a while myself  :Frown:

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## BOB89

Today was my Dr visit. I did bloodwork awhile back and I got to see the full results today. All blood values were with normal ranges for someone of my age. There was a liver enzyme that was slightly elavated but easily explained by the binge drinking I did a week prior to the testing around christmas. 

The dr scripted me something for my crunchy knees and elbows and I'll share what it is when I remeber. He told me it was first developed for joint issues in race horses and then later approved by the FDA for humans. Sadly its not Deca . He said no again to Deca. Damn Doctor. 

The blood pressure issues I've been fighting seem to have resolved themselves as I was back well with in normal ranges. Although I blame my BP and cholsteral meds for my stangation in the gym. He doesn't disagree but says they are a nessacary evil at this point in my life.

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## zaggahamma

really surprised you didnt post up actual numbers...hows the rest, the acne, libido, whats this stagnation in the gym talk? NO TRADITIONAL doctor is gonna write a rx for deca ....got to go to an AA Clinic for that.

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## BOB89

Well I left them at home and didn't have them handy. It was pages of blood work if your intrested I'll try to put some of them up. All of them are pretty boring to be honest. Mid range or slightly to the top end. LDL/HDL ratio was rock solid. There was also an inflamation marker(forgot the name) that is usually sky high for me but oddly enough was 0 this time. Not sure how that worked out.

Yea I know he won't script the deca , Its a long running joke between us. 

We discussed my lifting in detail and I am sort of stagnated on my key lifts. Its an issue of recovery at this point I think as I just don't get the sleep I should. Hopefully it will work itself out with a less intense program(I think I discussed that before) and the better T/E ratio. The BP and Chlorestal meds can inhibit recovery as well. Poor recovery was one of the orginal symptoms I came in with and its a side effect of both those meds we've been aware of and monitored. 

I guess stagnation may be a bit severe a statement since I've had to bounce programs a couple of times and fought a few minor injuries(pinched nerves and such). But my 3 lift total isn't moving much at all which is a little disheartening considering the effort I've put in, but understandable. I finished last year with a 1000 and ended decemeber with just a hair over 1100 which isn't where I'd like to be. I missed most of my goals for 2010 but since I based them on the progress of 2009 I can see why. I should have known that those kind of gains weren't substanable. 


The acne is basically a non-issue at this point. A few new small pin head sized pimples but none of the hard cystic stuff I've been fighting. Nothing that I'm too upset with to be honest although I think a little time in a tanning bed would square the last of it away. Once the last of the old red scarring fades I should be be good to go. 

As far as libido goes I seem to be back to normal and improving. Erections are solid and a full and seem to be at will.

I have the option to increase my dosage to 100 e4d which would raise me just a hair closer to top end. But are going to stay at .25 of adex a day either way. If I do it and don't like the feel I'll go back to 100 e5d. 


I've been trying to find the time to work some LSD cardio back into my programs as much for my heart as for active recovery. Hopefully that will pay off with a BF% drop over the next couple months. 


I went to the pharmacy today and they didn't have my new anti-crunchyness med(not sure what else to call it) so I have to call the Dr and see if its an insurance hold for approval or they forgot to call it in. He wasn't sure if my insurance would pick it up so they were suppose to check and if they didn't I could get a waiver or he would script something else. Needless to say I suggested Deca. He said no(again I guess personal jokes don't translate well to the interwebz)


Did I miss anything. I'll try to bring the paper work from my blood work and get it posted sunday


and my insurance and the BW company appear to have very dif numbers on as to what was paid and what wasn't. I got the insurance companies statement today finally and they show a larger payment than the labs showed they recieved. I'll get that squared before I pay my lab bill.

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## BOB89

OK blood work

Comp Metabolic Panel

Glucose 93 70-99
bun 21 10-26
creatinine .8 .4-1.5
sodium 137 136-145
Potassium 4.2 3.5-5
Chloride 104 98-110
Carbon Dioxide 29 20-30
Calcium 9.5 8.5-10.5
total protein 7.4 6-8.5
albumin 4.4 3-5.5
alkaline phosphatase 58 30-140
bilirubin .6 .2-1.2
SGOT 40 0-41
sgpt 71 0-45 HIGH
EGFR >60 no range



Lipids
Cholesterol 175 <200
Triglyerides 100 <150
HDL 42 >40
Cholesterol/HDL 4.17 5.00
LDL 113 <130
LDL/HDL 2.69 
Phenotype normal
ldl/hdl risk ratio 1/2 national average is 3.3 I was 2.69



Hemotology profile
WBC 6.39 4.0-12.0
RBC 5.75 3.8-5.8
hemoglobin 17.2 12-18
hematocrit 50.7 37-53


PSA 1.04 0-4.0
Test 689 241-827
t4 6.2 4.5-12.0
t4 free 1.2 .89-1.76
tsh 1.963 .350-4.0


Glycohemoglobin A1C 5.4 4.3-6.1
meanign average blood glucose has been apr 90 over last 2-3 months



didn't bother with the everything but there are the highlights. If theres a number other than those you wnat to see I can post it.

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## BOB89

The script for my knees is actually going to be injections of synvisc which is actaully a synthetic fluid that acts a shock absorber in the knee. Insurance has to sign off on it though and that may take 2 weeks.

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## zaggahamma

r u the one with the doctor that doesnt test for estradiol?

bloodwork looks good...u think u got it dialed in(dose wise)?

in your previous post u mention gaining 100lbs from 1000 to 1100 or a lil over that....would i be guessing correctly or not if those weights are for total squat, deads, bench? if so going up a lil over 100lbs seems like decent progress for trt

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## BOB89

He does test that box just didn't get checked this last time. He admitted his fault. 

The dose is as close as I'm going to get it at this point. I may take one more step up on the adex.

Yea its a standard three lift total.

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## BOB89

I've been having a sort of crazy thought in regards to my adex usage. I have been looking at the acne as soley being caused by excess E2 but what if its a product of some other mechanism. I'm considering dropping it completely for a period of time and see what happens. Considering my total test score was mid range I would have to converting test to E2 at a very high rate to still be high at .25mg of adex a day and I still have noticable bacne. Its changed from heavy cystic acne to what I have now but its still there. I see the Dr friday for my last synvisc injection and may dicuss it with him at that time.

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## BeastintheSheets

Why do you need adex if you are only using 100mg e5 days? lol Your estrogen is totally crashing which is probably why your joints hurt.

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## BOB89

At 100mg e4d I was over 100 on my e2. Hence the adex. We cut the test dose at the same time we started the adex. The the bacne was lessened w the increasing adex dose.(syarted at .25e3d) I'm pretty much decided to slowly decrease it dropping one dose a week for several weeks then another. 


My knees are shot due to years of abuse and some damage that isn't quite bad enough for surgery at the moment. They also have arthritis that was diagnosed even prior to me starting try.

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## sirupate

> r u the one with the doctor that doesnt test for estradiol?
> 
> bloodwork looks good...u think u got it dialed in(dose wise)?
> 
> in your previous post u mention gaining 100lbs from 1000 to 1100 or a lil over that....would i be guessing correctly or not if those weights are for total squat, deads, bench? if so going up a lil over 100lbs seems like decent progress for trt


Mine doesn't test for estradiol...need to ask him about that next visit. He has me starting at 200mg/2wks. Gonna go along with that until my first BW, then ask to go to EW dosing if my "crash" is as some of you describe in this (long) thread. I think the doctor will go along if that is what I want to do. Sure was cool to get that 10ml vial in the mail a few days ago.

Jeff

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## BOB89

Sirupate,

some people don't have the let down that i experience at 5-8 days after their shot. Just make sure that what your feeling is honest and not an effect of something you've read. I know that sometimes I think I might be effected by something I think is happening instead of actually whats going on if that makes sense.

Anyone have a good link to the effects of DHT conversion while on TRT?

I'm intrested in how much DHT might be resonpsible for an acne side effect? and how much DHT is normally converted from test as well as some sort of healthy ratio for DHT in the body if there is such info out there. 

Also got my insurance mess cleared up with a single phone call a couple weeks ago. Insurance company had sent the lab two checks one prior to me recieving my bill and the other after. So I owe basically nothing instead of alot. 

The synvisc so far is going well have one shot left on the right side.

----------


## BOB89

Well I'm into week 3 of .25 adex 6 of 7 days. So far no changes in anything. Will go one more week and cut again to 5 out of 7 days. 

If no changes then I'll consider holding steady for bloodwork for just E2 after 6 weeks. 


The synvisc seems to have done the trick so far in the right knee. Still a little achy but dr says thats probably tendonitis. Not sure about doing the left one yet. Going to give it some time and see what the results on the right are in a few months.

I'm going to go head and do the math for those of you who perfer weekly dosing info

Right now I'm on 

140mg of Test C a week
1.50 mg of Adex a week(.25mg 6 out of 7 days)

or a almost a ratio of 100 to 1


03/14/11 (didn't figure there was point of bumping this for zit info)

Today I was able to determine what Bacne was fresh and what was old. I currently have just 2 active spots on my back. Both are located in the same exact spot on opposite shoulders. This was something that I've noticed over the last few years. I tend to get 2 spots on the exact but opposite sides at a time. Not sure if this means anything but its been fairly consistent and to say the least odd.


I'm also about to cut to 5 out of 7 days (or 1.25 mg) for my adex with the test dose still being 140 mg per week. 

I think I'm going to pick up the offered script for viagra as insurance if I need it. Need to call insurance and see what doses I'm allowed, Its a perfered med but to be honest I have no idea how that works or whether they only pay for so many pills a month. I would hate to go pick it up and realize its super expensive(even though covered). I got some samples for cialas and Levitra awhile back but viagra is the one that insurance will actually pay for and having it sitting sure aint going to hurt anyone. And having the option to use each based on their strengths isn't a bad idea either.( Dr explained that each has dif half lives which could effect side effects and for lack of a better term "start time" with viagra being the shorter pre-flight and duration of effect and cialas taking longer to become effective and being live for up to 36 hours)

----------


## BOB89

Figured I'd take a minute and write down a few notes. 

At this point I have moved to adex dosing of .25mg 2 out of every 3 days. So I take .25 two days in a row then skip a day. This seems to be working out for me as my bacne is down to one new spot this week. I have also been payign attention to morning wood and although its not always there in the morning I can't remeber a night or day that I haven't woken at least once with it whether it be from a nap or just a random time I happened to wake up during the night.

I did go head and pick up the viagra script and like I expected when I went to get it, it was $22 a pill. I told them to hold the script and called insurance. Insurance said WTF and made a call to the pharamcy and squared it away. Even they didn't know why it showed they won't pay as Viagra is their perfered drug and my coverage in the computer showed it was included. I'm allowed Up to 6 100mg pills a month for my co-pay. The insurance company said that I might be able to switch it to either cialas or levitra in the future as both are now $9 a pill even without insurance at Walmart pharmacy(perfered pharamcy)which is less than the viagra to start with. I haven't had any need for it yet but will just keep the pills I have around should I run into something. I may switch the script in a month or two if I can get the others since I like the idea of having up to 36 hours instead of around 4 to reap the rewards of the pill. 

The pharmacy also went back to 1ml vials again for no known reason. They only gave me five with a refill order for 1 month.(2 months ago it was a 10ml with a 2 month refill)

I had attempted to re-up my script my phone as it had expired. I ended up going back to the pharamcy for 2 days as they told me they had sent the request to my dr and should have it taken care of the following day. On the second day I called the dr and their computer had been out of service and she called it in, for me to pick up that day. No one's fault just frustrating and a waste of time. Script was unchanged.

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## zaggahamma

> Figured I'd take a minute and write down a few notes. 
> 
> At this point I have moved to adex dosing of .25mg 2 out of every 3 days. So I take .25 two days in a row then skip a day. This seems to be working out for me as my bacne is down to one new spot this week. I have also been payign attention to morning wood and although its *not always there in the morning I can't remeber a night or day that I haven't woken at least once with it whether it be from a nap or just a random time I happened to wake up during the night.*
> 
> I did go head and pick up the viagra script and like I expected when I went to get it, it was $22 a pill. I told them to hold the script and called insurance. Insurance said WTF and made a call to the pharamcy and squared it away. Even they didn't know why it showed they won't pay as Viagra is their perfered drug and my coverage in the computer showed it was included. I'm allowed Up to 6 100mg pills a month for my co-pay. The insurance company said that I might be able to switch it to either cialas or levitra in the future as both are now $9 a pill even without insurance at Walmart pharmacy(perfered pharamcy)which is less than the viagra to start with. I haven't had any need for it yet but will just keep the pills I have around should I run into something. I may switch the script in a month or two if I can get the others since I like the idea of having up to 36 hours instead of around 4 to reap the rewards of the pill. 
> 
> The pharmacy also went back to 1ml vials again for no known reason. They only gave me five with a refill order for 1 month.(2 months ago it was a 10ml with a 2 month refill)
> 
> I had attempted to re-up my script my phone as it had expired. I ended up going back to the pharamcy for 2 days as they told me they had sent the request to my dr and should have it taken care of the following day. On the second day I called the dr and their computer had been out of service and she called it in, for me to pick up that day. No one's fault just frustrating and a waste of time. Script was unchanged.


this is actually what i notice too and of course functioning at time of need....i blame this mostly on a very uneven/unroutine sleep pattern/duration....i sleep a few hours at a time...rarely i'll sleep more than 3 or 4 hours

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## BOB89

I tend to blame the lack of good sleep on alot of my lifting issues. It also becomes hard to determine whether the fogyness I feel sometimes is from Test/e2 issues or lack of sleep.

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## BOB89

Just a quick update although not much has changed. I've gone to two days of .25 adex followed by two days of none. And so far no major changes in anything. I'll drop the dose again in a few more weeks(1 in 3). The bacne is a non-issue at this point since not only had it pretty much dissappeared but also the sun is out and I've been doing a bunch of stuff around the house without a shirt. ANd it seems the sun makes a huge differnce in the bacne situation.

Today I had squats and I forgot how much that bar hurts on a sunburn.


Sexual performance is solid(pun intended) I played with the samples of the big three and honestly I'm not sure if any of them are worth the sinus pressure I get from them. I guess if I was actaully having issues then it would be. The viagra has the benifit though that the sinus pressure goes away quicker but the levitra it doesn't seem to as problematic. The cialas sucks for nasal pressure and for random painful wood for the whole 36 hours.

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## GotNoBlueMilk

Bob: If the sun makes a huge difference, then you may want to consider looking at your vitamin D levels. Mine, and some others on the forum, were low and we had a great benefit from raising them up. In my case I didn't have any acne when my D was low, but I also have very low T and E2 (before I started HRT). Just a thought worth investigating. I know how something like bacne can destroy a great lat spread.

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## BOB89

I had never really thought of vitiman D being at issue with me. Maybe its something I should consider even without going through the bloodwork for it. I'll have to look a little deeper into it. A great lat spread, you really know how to motivate. Thanks for the feedback

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## BOB89

Ended up finding some D3 in my closet when digging for my ECA stack for deads today. 2000iu's down the hatch.

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## BOB89

Well its been about a month since I took my first dose of D3. Been consistent on daily dosing at 2000ius. I jumped off HRT dosing to cycle dosing (200 e3d) about three weeks ago. 

I haven't had any bacne issues at all at this dose, whether it be the D3 or the bit of sun I've been getting. I have moved my adex dose back up to .25 2 out of every 3 days. 

I probably won't post much about things for the next 8 weeks or since I'm off HRT dosing.

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## BOB89

Thought I'd take a minute to play catch up, more so to update my stats than anything. I came off a 400mg per week blast last week. I topped out at 234 at roughly 16% bf having started at 219 at 15%. I increased both bench and deadlift by 7.5%.

During the blast I had basically no side effects other than more frequent sleep issues(waking up on a frequent basis ect) I blame some of this on the increase in fluids I was taking in as it seemed everytime I got up I had to go to the bathroom. I have blood work coming up followed by my bi-annual Drs visit. My weight has already dropped a few lbs and I expect to drop a few more over the next few weeks. 

At this point I'm back to 100 e4/5d but have completely dropped the adex I was taking. Since the only real reason I was taking it was to avoid the bacne I had and it is gone I don't see any reason to keep taking it til I get a decent E2 reading in my next blood work without it. I took very little adex during the blast taking maybe .25 every 3/4 days or less.

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## BOB89

Had to get my blood work in this week as its due on the day of my shot which happened to be Tuesday with the appoinment set for next Friday. Got to the lab and there was no order called in following my last appointment. This is the second time I've had this happen. So I got to call the Dr and got his nurse. She was good enough to go head and place the order although it was less than I've had done in the past. Basically it will just be 4 tests, Lipids/cholestral, test, e2, and liver values. About as bare bones as you can be. 

I'm still at 100 e5d and feel honestly pretty good. I'm still not taking my adex and may not go back regardless of what my e2 is since I have no side effect symptoms at this point. My sleep has stablilzed for the most part and I haven't had any issues with rubber dick for quite some time. I'll re up my viagra script but only to have it sitting around in case something ugly rears its head. My lifts haven't really taken much of hit since I ended the cycle. My bench has dropped a little I feel but thats most likely due to switching programing to volume over high % singles. I haven't done a bodyfat for awhile but visually look a tad leaner than I was at the end of June. Weight is bouncing a little at 220-225 on a day to day basis with a few days a little lighter. 

I'll post the DR appointment w the blood work results after I go

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## BOB89

Like I said bare bones blood work this time

Test/score/range
Cholesterol 161 <200
Triglycerides 122 <150
Cholesterol/HDL 4.88 5.00
HDL 33 >40 this was my only out of range score
LDL 104 <130
HDL/LDL 3.15 3.55
E2 49 <52
Test 794 241-827
liver values
SGOT 28 0-41
SGPT 40 0-45

No major changs for time being. I made sure the next blood work includes prolacton, LSH, FSH and such. Along with vitiamn levels such as D. Thats won't be til Feb. I'm debating on what to do with the Adex dosage since I'm high at 49 but I'm functioning fine and in range. Suggestions are welcome.

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## GotNoBlueMilk

LH and FSH are a waste to test if you are taking Test. They will be low. I would increase the Adex. 49 may be listed as in range, but it's a bad range. You really want that < 30. 

Aside from low HDL, your lipids look really good!

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## BOB89

I know the LH and FSH aren't going to be normal but he wants them although I'm not sure why. I just wanted to make sure I got a complete hormone screen which those are in. I didn't say it quite the way I wanted to. 

My test/E2 ratio is right at 16:1 and there are some that believe that a 20:1 to 30:1 ratio is about ideal. A-dex seems to cause a pretty big E2 drop for me so I'm hesitant to use it again. I fought rubber dick while on even small doses(.25 e3d) and now that seems to be gone. If I go back to it I may dose as light as .25 on day of shot or e4d. My other choice is go to 100mg e6d and see what that brings. 

I'm open to suggests and thought on the topic.

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## zaggahamma

disagree with gnbm....as u stated....probs with getting too low and limp noodle syndrome....dont fix what aint broke....imo, the 20-30 range is not valid

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## BOB89

How do you feel about looking at it as a ratio?

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## GotNoBlueMilk

JP has always claimed a higher E2 value works better for him. He would know his body so his claim is valid. His personal experience makes him doubt the validity of a 20-30 range for others. My personal experience makes me doubt that anyone can function with an E2 of 40+. For me, anything about 28 sucks big time. I get all the symptoms of high E2 levels. But then, my baseline E2 was 4, so my body doesn't like high E2 at all. At an E2 of 4 I had no libido or erectile issues at all. My point with all of this is that JP and I seem to be at opposite ends of the spectrum. 

JP is definately right about "dont fix what aint broke", but it's hard to know what is partially broke unless you experiment and zone in on your optimal levels for all hormones. Based on what you have posted before, bacne seems to be your key indicator for your E2 tolerance, and libido seems to be your indicator for too low E2. So if you are happy with both, then you have nothing to fix. 

I have read a lot about T to E2 ratios. I have also watched my ratio and how I feel at different ratios. Ratio, at least for me, is a poor metric. My baseline ratio was 100:1 (400 T and 4 E2). I felt like crap. Mostly because of the low E2, and some because my free T was at the bottom of the range. When I feel best, my ratio is about 40:1 (800 T and 20 E2). But again, if I am at 1000 T and 25 E2 I feel lousy. I get night sweats, neck tension headaches, irritable, and a bunch of other crappy symptoms. Even though it is still a ratio of 40:1, I feel terrible because T of 1000 for me is too high and my body doesn't like it. So the ratio may be something worth looking at, but in the end the individual numbers seem to mean more.

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## zaggahamma

tbh,

i go less to none by numbers than feeling/symptoms

and/but bob, ratio is something to look at of course but symptoms to me are most important

i know you have been on and have been very maticulous and you know better than anyone

still subscribed

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## BOB89

I know that I function well at the upper range of E2. So I'm not going to change much if anything, I was honestly surprised that it was only 49 to be honest. I think at one point I was over 100 and functioning fine. I think I had one test Pre-TRT and it was in the mid 50s. 

The ratio thing intrests me but I've come to realize there are no hard fast rules in this game. Someone may take 1mg a week of Adex and basically see little change and I may take .25 and plummet below what I'm comfortable with. Plus if you look at the ratio range 20:1 to 30:1 and my numbers I'm just 10 E2 points from being at 20:1 almost on the nose. 

I've come to the point where my test dose is set, 100 mg e4-5d works for me and puts me at a level me and my Dr are comfortable with. A small tweak to the E2 I can't see as a bad thing and its not like its forever. I can drop the dose and be back at baseline in a matter of a week or so. I think its worth the tiny risk and I think I'm going to go .25 on shot day and thats it. I've considered I may be on the borderline between a E2 level I can live with and one that causes issues, this would explain the issues that seem to ebb and flow as they aren't constant. So by pushing my E2 down as slightly as I can I may be able to take myself out of the borderline area. IF not I'm not really risking anything. 

Yes I realize that e4d exceeded Adex's half life and may result in a slight rollercoaster but may also just shave enough while it is active in my system to drop my E2 levels to an even better one for me.

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## BOB89

This week my script was due. Ran into a few problems all at once. When I phone ordered it said to hold for pharmist. I waited and they told me it would be held up for a dr re-authorization. I didn't think much of this since I only have one refill on this script anyway. Had to go there the next day for my BP meds anyway. Well I got there and they said they were waiting on a fax back from the Dr but they were out of stock anyway. This happened last year in July as well, there was a nationwide shortage for about 3 months were I had to pre-order and wait a few days to get my script filled. Well I called today and they were still out of stock but the hold up ended up being with my insurance. I needed to re-up my exemption that my work gives me as Test isn't typically covered. So I had to do that. That got straight about noon. I'll call tomorrow to see if they have any Test in stock or this is going to be an ongoing thing for awhile. I'm stockpiled and can wait but its pretty annoying.

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## BOB89

Finally got around to a BF% check today, its 14%ish at 220 BW. Which is just a hair off of my lowest BF% since I started HRT only 20+ heavier.

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## zaggahamma

impressive bro...solid work

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## BOB89

I forgot to mention that my test was there the next day. 


I on my third dose of .25 adex w my injection, this schedule is convenient if nothing else. I'm experiencing increased sexual intrest around day 2-3 after injection and then a slight drop. I'll continue to track it. Does anyone know when during a injection sequence that E2 is typically highest. I know that test peaks around day 2-3 for most. Does E2 peak after or roughly the same time?

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## GotNoBlueMilk

E2, barring any AI, is going to peak about 12 hours after T peaks. Adex has a 2-3 day half life. 

I don' think T peaks at 2-3 days after injection, but I could be wrong about that. I always thought it was 24 hours.

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## zaggahamma

I was alwasys under the assumption T peaked around day 4/5 after injcection

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## GotNoBlueMilk

So take my assumption, JP's assumption, average them together, and you day 2-3. Which is Bob's timeframe.

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## zaggahamma

guess i should have worded better...i read directly of the test cyp chart(dont believe enanthate is much different) about the day 4/5 peak....but i feel itchy nips same day or next after a 125mg or higher shot of test....

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## BOB89

I know the peak varies but was looking for a general rule. I tend to believe I am one of those people with a much shorter halflife than some since I feel a noticable drop by day 6 through 8 when I was on a longer schedule. 

The day before my last shot I was an ass this week. Unsure of whether it has anything to due with my medication but its something else I'm going to track. If I notice a trend towards day 4-5 I will probably either drop the AI completely(as I didn't have this on this exact dosage while I was off AI) or take a second dose on day 3. It will probalby be another month or two before I have a good enough sample of day 4s to judge. 

I'm also looking at another blast after I get a handle on things. Probably just up to my max scripted dose as it pushes me well into the supraphysical level.

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## zaggahamma

i'm an ass on days 1-7

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## JD250

Test does peak around day 2ish to day 4ish but starts the drop on day 5ish.......I always felt a little (kinda) shitty after day 5 so I started injecting every 5th day and that solved the problem.......feeling shitty after the middle of the week could also be caused by the need for an AI later in the week, high e2 will leave you with less than normal free test and feeling shitty just as if the test levels were falling from half life. I dose ADEX eod so I assumed I was experiencing a drop in test levels from half life and not high e2 and apparently I was correct. 

^^ Hoisse.....well said!!

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## BOB89

JD, 

thats pretty much my thoughts as well, a rise in E2 later in the week causing the irratiablilty. This last week I didn't have the ass issue but I was also out of the gym so my body was less stressed. I'm going to track it a few more weeks and see what I come up with and if it continues I'll add .25 adex on day 3. Last time I went EOD even at .25 I had some low E2 symptoms so I'm not going to drop that low or if I do I'll probably up my test dose some. But for now I'm just going to get a good read over a few more weeks and see where I am then. Thanks for the input.

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## BOB89

I haven't updated this in awhile since there hasn't been much to say. I've settles in at 100 e5d with adex at. 5 mg on the day of the shot and. 5 2 days later. Seems to be working out pretty well. I have blood work in about a month w my appointment shortly after.

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## Charly Rivers

great info thanks guys

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## BOB89

I got.my blood work done last week and about 10 hours out from my doc visit. The blood work will reflect a dosage of 100mg of test every 5 days w .5mg of adex eod. On that dosage I seem to basically side effect.free.

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## bass

excellent! please post your blood work when you get it, curious to see how its working for you. thanks for the update!

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## Hackamaniac

Being new to trt this is a great thread....Everything is very well documented, thanks for the time and effort!!!

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## BOB89

Got a call mid day from my Dr. He had a rash of flu cases and wanted to let me know he was backed up. We agreed to reschedule. I did drop by and pick up my blood work. I'll hit the high lights. Dosing was 100 mg of test every 5/6 days. Adex was .5 eod. 

Cholesterol was all in range.
All blood related numbers were in range, with red blood cell count pretty.much maxed out.
Vitamin D was 44(30-80)

Now here is where things.get weird.
estradiol was <7(10-52)
This is explains a lot of the.little.aches and pains I've been having. Oddly I didn't experience rubber dick even at these basement levels. With an adex to test ratio of 1.6 mg per 140 mg of test I should be almost ideal dosing specs. But my e2 is a third of where it should be and 1/5 of where it was without.(51 previously). 

Test was down to 388 with the same basic dosing from 750~. Have no ideal for a cause of this drop in test. 

LH and fsh were basically non existent as would be expected. 

Prolactin was 6.8(2.1-17.7)

Thyroid tested normal

Weight was about 215 w a bf% of 15%~


All the health stuff checked out solid which is good. The hormone stuff was a hair off but I left myself some adjustment between this test and the last one. Looks like a run at. 25 adex every 2/3 day is in order or just .5 at the time of my shot should put me right in range. Will adjust test up to 4/5 days between shots. I was consistent w dosing going into testing so I don't have an explanation for the 300 point drop in test. Although I wasn't drinking at all going into last test but had a small bender the weekend before this one. I know that alcohol effects test production in the body but not sure how it effects exogenous test. Will need to research that.

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## bass

cutting down on AI will fix your e2 of course. did you check for SHBG and free T?

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## BOB89

I've got numbers for t4 and free t4(both middle of range)but no shbg or free test. Although I know I've had.both before. Odd.

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## BOB89

Its been a year since I've updated this thread. Although I've played with dosage a hair here and there I've settled into a dose of .75 ml every 8 days going into my bloodwork in about a month. I'm off the ai and have no bacne. Last summer I got as low as 195lbs but was having some blood pressure related issues that required the change of meds to a beta blocker. Since then my weight has gone back up to over 100kg as my metabolism slowed with max doses of the beta blocker. I noted a 15 point reduction in heart rate on the beta blocker. 

I've fought some injuries that have limited my lifting but think I'm through the worst of them now and none required treatment beyond cutting back a little and some periods of complete rest.

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## BOB89

Survived a summer highlighted by a almost heart attack caused by the beta blockers. They were limiting my heart rate to about 130 regardless of what I was doing. I exceeded that and my body decided to shoot my bp through the roof via vascular restriction. The end result was a very very irregular heartbeat that should of or at least could of killed me. 

We switched to a different beta blocker but it was still too much. So am now on a calcium channel blocker. Have had one small issue since that change. 

Did manage to get off the cholesterol meds and still be within range. Got a diagnosis of sleep apnea that we're dealing with. It may be correctable through surgery. 

None of these issues appear to be trt related. Last blood work was for free test only and I was slightly higher than mid-range at 125~ every 7 days or so.

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