# STEROIDS FORUM > IGF-1 LR3, HGH, and INSULIN QUESTIONS >  Chinese HGH concerns

## Xtralarg

As we are all aware the global market for human growth hormone is worth millions if not billions of dollars and because of this is attracts the attention of the more unscrupulous amongst our community.

In the past people have been sold HCG believing it to be HGH, let’s face it, to the beginner or novice it looks the same or very similar, you reconstitute it and can inject it just like you do with HGH. One big difference is the price, HCG is much cheaper to produce than HGH and therefore to the guy who wants to make a quick buck it becomes very appealing. Luckily for us it’s easy to test for HCG using a pregnancy test, put some of the water on the test and if it shows a positive result then voila! You have HCG.

So what are the fakers trying to pass off as HGH these days? Well they are certainly selling us freeze dried AI’s, these compounds will strip the body of it estrogen and that will make you loose some water and become ‘leaner’. This can often fool the user into thinking they have lost BF and increased lean muscle, and as most people run AAS with their HGH they won’t have a clue that what they are taking is a million miles from what they thought they have spent their hard earned cash on because their estrogen levels would of been raised by the AAS anyway. The problems arise here when you come off the AI and get a massive estrogen rebound, and then you will know for sure you have been deceived. 

Ok so how can we tell that we have real HGH without sending to the lab to be tested and also not testing it on yourself?

The answer to this question is quite simple and anyone can do it. When you reconstitute your HGH (or what you think is HGH) you need to watch how it dissolves when it comes into contact with the water. Does it disappear instantly? If so then I doubt very much that you have HGH, what you want to be seeing are a few white flakes at the bottom of the vial which remain, you then need to gently swirl the bottle around until the disappear, this could take 30 seconds or more and is a very good indicator that what you have is real HGH, or what we commonly believe to be HGH...Update. It seems that the Chinese are able to create a substance that dissolves like HGH so beware that the remaining flakes are not always a sigh that your HGH is g2g.

As we know the positive effects of HGH such as fat loss and muscle gain take a long time to begin to show and it is because of this that we often rely on the side effects such as bloat and CTS to give us the reassurance that our HGH is real. One of my major concerns is that the counterfeiters may be one step ahead of us here, HGH is not only very expensive to produce it’s also very difficult and must be done in controlled lab conditions. This leads me on to what may be a huge undiscovered scam in the world of HGH, I am going to point the finger at China because that is where the vast majority of HGH used by ‘us’ comes from and they are probably the worlds number one counterfeiting nation.

I believe that there are many drugs available that will cause the body to retain water but not so many that will cause CTS and I only know one that will cause both, HGH. However let’s not be naive here, the Chinese may be producing a drug that reconstitutes like HGH and causes the same side effects as HGH but without the benefits and I believe that they may be fooling many thousands of unsuspecting users all around the world. If this is happening then we need to help eachother and to do this we need everybody who is using ‘black market’ HGH to share their results with us on this thread. 

Have you been using HGH for a while and experiencing the side effects but not seeing any benefits?

Have you or are you experiencing bloat but no CTS? If so are you seeing fat loss and muscle gain?

Please share your experiences guys and girls, this is imporatnt so we can all be at ease about what we are putting into our bodies.

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## terraj

Well done.

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## paddy155

Great idea mate.
This is exactly the type of info that I need as I have yet to purchase hgh and when the time finally comes I do not want to be mislead into paying for something other than the real thing. It's a shame that people go out and work hard and even make sacrafice's in life and their are people out their abusing their trust and abusing their position. This seem's to be the world we live in now and we need keep of to speed with the people trying to scam us. I myself have been scammed in the past with AAS because I never took the time to research on this board. I learned the hard way but we learn by our mistake's.

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## frawnz

After all the research I've done, my own personal experience as well as my "gut" feeling, I have come to the conclusion that very little of the HGH coming out of China is actual HGH. 

I just don't see these pharm companies selling all this HGH out of their back doors at such low prices. Keep in mind, they'd be selling to a distributor who is going to be getting their own profit. So take the amount you're spending on HGH and then factor in the cut that the distributor is taking and then the cut that the pharm company is taking and how much could possibly be left over to cover the actual manufacturing costs?

The next indicator is that almost every "name brand" from China all have 2-5 websites all claiming to be "the real one", often with their own serial number verification database. If one of the sites is actually the authentic one, then what are we getting with the non-authentic ones? Take the name of your HGH and add .net, .com, .cn, .cn.com, .com.cn, etc and you will probably come up with a website for each of them.

Lastly, while there are some people who have posted logs that show good results from HGH use, they are pretty few and far between. The main problem is how long results from HGH are expected to take and how many people combine HGH use with AA cycles. There is probably also a placebo effect from HGH that inspires you to work out harder, do more cardio or clean up your diet to "get the most from it", which makes it difficult to pinpoint where any results actually come from. 

I have yet to find any photo logs showing the results of strictly HGH use over time. I know AA use is much more prevelant, and thus why there is so much more of the "before and after" photos, but even for random supplements and the like, you can usually find this sort of thing. 

Even an IGF-1 test is not necessarily an accurate way of testing the more I think about it. IGF LR3 is significantly cheaper to produce than HGH and will likewise increase your IGF levels and from what I've seen, looks exactly the same as HGH. There may be other things that will raise your IGF-1 levels as well.

Remember, China is the counterfeit capital of the world with an estimated 60 billion in piracy/counterfeiting a year. It's naive to think we're getting legit goods considering the prices being paid.

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## marcus300

Can the Chinese be trusted? well they are the biggest counterfeiters in the world, they even poison their own to make money and they even produce and sell chemically produce eggs so can they be trusted!! it makes me laugh when i hear Blue tops are great, green tops are good to go and my Orange tops are very powefull, come on they are just coloured tops and anything could be inside those bottles.

The problem we have is that hgh results are very slow and many could well be fooled by the results of their cycles (AAS) they are using while running their GH, if the Chinese could mimic CTS and fill you with bloat and the numbness feeling then no one here would truly know they had fake. The only true way to finding out if your supplier is selling you 100% gh is to get it lab tested and who ever does that?

I remember years ago I was buying GH pens from a pharm in Spain and they were so expensive it was nearly impossible to run gh but the results were amazing, now was this just the right time for me to transform or was the gh a lot superior than the Chinese stuff floating around today. One thing is for sure there are various qualities of gh coming out of China and I feel its a hit or miss scenario. 

Does anyone have a lab were GH can be tested because I am up for sending some to get it tested?

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## spicyer

Great post Xlarg. In a recent post I sought opinions re: legitimacy of chinese product. I have used hgh since 2002 and made the switch from us product shooting with the pen to chinese product (the brand is no longer available) in 2005. Up until late 2007 chinese product was consistent, since it has been questionable. 

I am happy to report that my current products, nd blues and also green tops do take a good 20-30 seconds to swirl and dissolve and are packed under vacuum, besides the sides which are very good indicators as well, I currently use 5 iu's per day and at 48, I am enjoying tremendous benefits and hope I can keep finding the same supplier or else I'll have to bite the bullet and go back to the clinic here in So. Cal.

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## spicyer

> Can the Chinese be trusted? 
> Does anyone have a lab were GH can be tested because I am up for sending some to get it tested?


I will also. Years ago I think there was a lab posted, but I didn't take down info. It was sorta expensive but I'm definetely down to sending in my current products for testing........of course what we test now may not be what we get later as you mentioned colors of tops can be switched easily.

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## marcus300

> I will also. Years ago I think there was a lab posted, but I didn't take down info. It was sorta expensive but I'm definetely down to sending in my current products for testing........of course what we test now may not be what we get later as you mentioned colors of tops can be switched easily.


The lab doesnt longer trade if I am thinking of the same one you are.

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## Xtralarg

Ok so after doing more research on this subject I discover that excessive water retention can in fact cause CTS, so this then makes me think that it will be all to easy for China to produce a drug which you inject to give you all the sides associated with HGH when in fact it is rubbish.

*Conclusion*

In order to be sure that what you are injecting is real HGH you need to get it tested in a lab.

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## Xtralarg

We need to open our eyes here guys and find out if we are being ripped off or not, I stongly suspect that China is laughing at us whilst their banks are overflowing with $$$$$$$$$ from the west.

Can anyone reccomend a lab that can test HGH?

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## Matt

> Ok so after doing more research on this subject I discover that excessive water retention can in fact cause CTS, so this then makes me think that it will be all to easy for China to produce a drug which you inject to give you all the sides associated with HGH when in fact it is rubbish.
> 
> *Conclusion*
> 
> In order to be sure that what you are injecting is real HGH you need to get it tested in a lab.


Just thinking out load here XL, i know we get our pins and barrels from a needle exchange and they do blood tests, all free of course.. Do you reckon they may do lab tests??? Just an idea....

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## Dang-It

Great post... 

I just got some hgh I took a pic the day I started (July 1) and I will take 1 every month.. I will start the AAS cycle 2 months into my hgh cycle..

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## Xtralarg

> Just thinking out load here XL, i know we get our pins and barrels from a needle exchange and they do blood tests, all free of course.. Do you reckon they may do lab tests??? Just an idea....


I doubt it, I have found a lab which I can send my gh to for testing, further suggestions are welcome though.

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## marcus300

China can easily produce the sides of GH by giving you an antidiuretic hormone what looks like GH, this will give you water retention which will give you CTS, now if you couple this with the aas cycle and re-designed diet and increased cardio and you will convince yourself you have 100% gh. You buy cheap GH you are running the risk of getting fake IMHO.

When I bought Pharm grade GH my results and gains are alot different then when I use Chinese GH, kind of speaks volumes really but we are all driven by the cheap price and we convince ourselfs we have genuine gh because of the sides but if you compare them with Pharm grade you will notice a huge difference IMHO.

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## rauntu

So where can we get our HGH tested? How much does it cost? I would think if it's reasonable it would be wise to get it tested.

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## marcus300

Does anyone know if srcs labs is still going?

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## AndriodLee

I'll be more than glad to contribute to this post. Just started ND Blue tops a week ago. I went with 5ius right off the bat. Running it 5/2 off. So far not feeling any joint pain or headaches however, I am a little bit more lethargic than usual. When I reconstitute the powder the majority of it dissolves instantly with the exception of a few white flakes that are stuck on the bottom of the vial. They seemed to be vacuum sealed because when I stick my insulin pin in it sucks the bac water out of the needle slowly. 

I'm no stranger to gh, but this is my first time using Chinese generics. The last batch I had was a premixed solution from a ug lab, and after four months of using them I really liked the way it made me feel. The only downside to those was that I broke one of the vials causing me to end my cycle shorter than expected. 

I have six months of these nd blue tops on hand, and I am planning on running gh fo a year straight this time around. Like I mentioned before, I will keep you guys posted as soon as I get some blood work done, and let you know about any changes that I notice in my body.

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## AndriodLee

Photo of my current blue tops:



Photo of the previous GH I used at the beginning of the year:

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## TheCamel

> Ok so after doing more research on this subject I discover that excessive water retention can in fact cause CTS, so this then makes me think that it will be all to easy for China to produce a drug which you inject to give you all the sides associated with HGH when in fact it is rubbish.
> 
> *Conclusion*
> 
> *In order to be sure that what you are injecting is real HGH you need to get it tested in a lab.*


sorry man but i think there's another way too, much cheaper and easier.

hgh reconstituted is also called somatropin which is equal to our own endogenous somatotropin.
so, if what we inject is real, a simple blood work checking somatotropin would reveal if the somatropin pinned was real or not.

by the way, great thread.

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## frawnz

Where can you get a somatropin test done though? I don't think it's very common, and thus probably expensive to have done if you can find somewhere that even can test for it.

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## FCVtec

I have known my source since high school (8 yr ago or so.) And everything I ever got from them was legit up until today. I always got AAS from them but never HGH so when I first got Kefeis from my source I wAsnt 100 percent sure of it's authenticity because i knew that there is a lot of fake hgh out there. It mixed just like described by you guys but takes over 60 seconds for the flakes on the bottom to dissolve, when I climbed over 3iu I got really bloated and even my BP spiked, also CTS. It was a strong sign that they were the real deal plus I do trust my source. I am gonna find a pic from the net of the kefei's and I want to point out that it comes with a lil silver kefei sticker sealing the box and it should be intact, once u take it out it;s easy to notice that has been opened (like a seal sticker made to get damaged once removed). 

I have switched to hyge now and I know for sure it's legit, I like how it's packed on vacuum and has neat packaging with a scratch off seal to verify authenticity. It's easy to tell that it has been manufactured to a much higher standard when compared to kefeis.... I hope the results are better 2. Will know soon. Also the hyge have a new design on the anti fake sticker and it's a scratch off.

I do like what HGH has done to me in the past 6 months. Helped break through 185 (I have a small frame and my natural weight was 135 before i started dedicating myself to the gym).. I am off cycle now and I am 188 which is unheard of for me. And I am still gaining. Leaner than ever and feel like a 18 yr old. THe mood boost is very obvious.

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## frawnz

Ya, I got some Rips and the outter boxes/labels came seperately, which pretty much was a red flag for me (source claims he gets them straight from the pharm and specifically tells them not to label them so they're easier to ship). Also, the vials don't sit in the plastic trays like I feel they would if they were actually manufactured together.

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## FCVtec

I tried to take the pic that has the batch no. out but couldn t do it.. I don t care that is there but idk if it should. feel free to edit it out if you need 2.

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## FCVtec

I am not an expert man but if there is a seal it probably should be untouched.

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## BignBig

I buy mine from China. It wasn’t having CTS at the start until I raised my dosage to 8 iu that when I started having signs of CTS. However, from the start I always notice white flakes when I reconstitute.

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## FCVtec

A lot of people say most generics that are legit are under dosed. Usually you will get what you pay for. Just how it is most times. I started getting side effects at 3iu. I know that varies from person to person but at 8iu I imagine there has to be noticeable sides. When I got up to 5iu at first took me months to slowly climb and my hands were super numb and cts was kicking in, super wild dreams also. It was intense until I got used to it.

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## rmacgurn

> So where can we get our HGH tested? How much does it cost? I would think if it's reasonable it would be wise to get it tested.


I have posted in 3 threads about my concern with Chinese HGH and the sides vs, the results. no one commented on any now i see this. Well as i live in C.A. i can only say I found one in Guatemala that charges $25 to test and i just sent them 2 blue tops from Hong Kong to test. I was told today by a doctor at John Hopkins that there is a lab in Florida that will test for $40 but i will call tomorrow and post back the name and cost when i verify it. My suspicion is that it is HGH, but dose is off, and it is not pure. I have used Saizen for years and never had CTS or other issues, (only 2-3ius a day) but when i switched to china blue tops, got CTS and joint pain, within 6-7 days. Also as i said i have compared the power in an 8mg (24iu) saizen and it is about half of what is in a 10iu china vial.

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## fossilfuel7

> I have known my source since high school (8 yr ago or so.) And everything I ever got from them was legit up until today. I always got AAS from them but never HGH so when I first got Kefeis from my source I wAsnt 100 percent sure of it's authenticity because i knew that there is a lot of fake hgh out there. It mixed just like described by you guys but takes over 60 seconds for the flakes on the bottom to dissolve, when I climbed over 3iu I got really bloated and even my BP spiked, also CTS. It was a strong sign that they were the real deal plus I do trust my source. I am gonna find a pic from the net of the kefei's and I want to point out that it comes with a lil silver kefei sticker sealing the box and it should be intact, once u take it out it;s easy to notice that has been opened (like a seal sticker made to get damaged once removed). 
> 
> I have switched to hyge now and I know for sure it's legit, I like how it's packed on vacuum and has neat packaging with a scratch off seal to verify authenticity. It's easy to tell that it has been manufactured to a much higher standard when compared to kefeis.... I hope the results are better 2. Will know soon. Also the hyge have a new design on the anti fake sticker and it's a scratch off.
> 
> I do like what HGH has done to me in the past 6 months. Helped break through 185 (I have a small frame and my natural weight was 135 before i started dedicating myself to the gym).. I am off cycle now and I am 188 which is unheard of for me. And I am still gaining. Leaner than ever and feel like a 18 yr old. THe mood boost is very obvious.



You say you know that your Hyge's are legit and I am not doubting you..but what is funny is that a sponsor on another forum is saying that the H y g e t r o p i n.com.cn site that is on your box in your pic is a fake site selling fake GH...but yet he is selling fake GH.

Here is the link to that thread...
http://chemicalmass.com/showthread.php?t=4499

That sponsor has turned out to be a scam as Frawnz and I and other members can vouch for because we attained Riptropin from that sponsor and it's bunk. There are numerous locked down threads in there GH,IGF forums about it on there in recent days.

Everyone stay away from Riptropin because it's all junk

I got no increase in my IGF levels at 10 freakin IU's per day for 2 months and felt nothing at all...no benefits..side effects..nothing...and yes I had a test.

I don't feel that I am posting a source..but informing everyone of a scammmer.

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## fossilfuel7

> Ya, I got some Rips and the outter boxes/labels came seperately, which pretty much was a red flag for me (source claims he gets them straight from the pharm and specifically tells them not to label them so they're easier to ship). Also, the vials don't sit in the plastic trays like I feel they would if they were actually manufactured together.



Dude, I did not know he told you this. He told me the opposite. Everything I got was labeled and in trays..but it looked kind of half done.
Not like it surprises me though considering our end results.

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## AndriodLee

> You say you know that your Hyge's are legit and I am not doubting you..but what is funny is that a sponsor on another forum is saying that the H y g e t r o p i n.com.cn site that is on your box in your pic is a fake site selling fake GH...but yet he is selling fake GH.
> 
> Here is the link to that thread...
> http://chemicalmass.com/showthread.php?t=4499
> 
> That sponsor has turned out to be a scam as Frawnz and I and other members can vouch for because we attained Riptropin from that sponsor and it's bunk. There are numerous locked down threads in there GH,IGF forums about it on there in recent days.
> 
> Everyone stay away from Riptropin because it's all junk
> 
> ...


those look like pinwheel tops... word about pinwheel tops is that they stopped making those back in 2008. The legit Hyges have 8iu on the tops now.

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## marcus300

> I have posted in 3 threads about my concern with Chinese HGH and the sides vs, the results. no one commented on any now i see this. Well as i live in C.A. i can only say I found one in Guatemala that charges $25 to test and i just sent them 2 blue tops from Hong Kong to test. I was told today by a doctor at John Hopkins that there is a lab in Florida that will test for $40 but i will call tomorrow and post back the name and cost when i verify it. My suspicion is that it is HGH, but dose is off, and it is not pure. *I have used Saizen for years and never had CTS or other issues, (only 2-3ius a day) but when i switched to china blue tops, got CTS and joint pain, within 6-7 days. Also as i said i have compared the power in an 8mg (24iu) saizen and it is about half of what is in a 10iu china via*l.


Very interesting and looks very similar to my findings about Chinese GH, I am coming to the conculsion that many people are being conned by China IMHO.

Let us know where the lab is for testing  :Smilie:

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## Xtralarg

> sorry man but i think there's another way too, much cheaper and easier.
> 
> hgh reconstituted is also called somatropin which is equal to our own endogenous somatotropin.
> so, if what we inject is real, a simple blood work checking somatotropin would reveal if the somatropin pinned was real or not.
> 
> by the way, great thread.


Not going to be easy to test at the right time due to very short half life's and absoprbtion rates differing on methed of administration.

It would be safer to send your hGH to a lab for testing IMO.

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## Xtralarg

> I buy mine from China. It wasnt having CTS at the start until I raised my dosage to 8 iu that when I started having signs of CTS. However, from the start I always notice white flakes when I reconstitute.


Any bloat?

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## Xtralarg

> Very interesting and looks very similar to my findings about Chinese GH, I am coming to the conculsion that many people are being conned by China IMHO


I agree, there is a very high probability that China is fooling the world. We need to get our hGH testd in proper labs so we can get to the bottom of this.

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## TheCamel

> Where can you get a somatropin test done though? I don't think it's very common, and thus probably expensive to have done if you can find somewhere that even can test for it.





> Not going to be easy to test at the right time due to very short half life's and absoprbtion rates differing on methed of administration.
> 
> It would be safer to send your hGH to a lab for testing IMO.


Guys where do you live, Congo?

Any lab that can test somatomedin (IGF-1) can also test for somatotropin (HGH). Just hand your wallet...

Here in Italy it costs around 35 euro to check for somatotropin and I live in Sicily, surely not the most advanced county in Italy, lol.

Regarding the timing, just do what I have been doing in the last 10 years so get into the lab 30' after your injection, which must be IM.
In this way, if what pinned was HGH, the result will be beyond the highest level of the lab ranges.  :Wink/Grin: 

By the way, I am on HRT since 7 years already and started using steroids when I was 19yo. I accomplished 37 cycles and 3 PCT...
Currently, I am on HGH from Hygene at 10 iu ed since 7 months.

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## bjpennnn

i am so confused at this point ha.

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## NotSmall

> Ya, I got some Rips and the outter boxes/labels came seperately, which pretty much was a red flag for me (source claims he gets them straight from the pharm and specifically tells them not to label them so they're easier to ship). Also, the vials don't sit in the plastic trays like I feel they would if they were actually manufactured together.





> Dude, I did not know he told you this. He told me the opposite. Everything I got was labeled and in trays..but it looked kind of half done.
> Not like it surprises me though considering our end results.


Frawnz - That is how Riptropin is sent, with the packaging seperate to the vials - a very dubious practise for obvious reasons.

Fossilfuel - I'd imagine that your source got fed up with people querying the packaging being seperate and decided to label & box them himself and was in a hurry to do so!

I have been getting all the right sides from my Rips but have wondered for some time if our blind faith in the side effects was unfounded...

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## fossilfuel7

> Frawnz - That is how Riptropin is sent, with the packaging seperate to the vials - a very dubious practise for obvious reasons.
> 
> Fossilfuel - I'd imagine that your source got fed up with people querying the packaging being seperate and decided to label & box them himself and was in a hurry to do so!
> 
> I have been getting all the right sides from my Rips but have wondered for some time if our blind faith in the side effects was unfounded...


I thought I was getting some water weight gain for first 4 weeks from the Rips at 5iu..but it must have been placebo effect and then I found out that it wasn't doing crap..no rise in blood pressure, no rise in BG levels, no improved sleep, no rise in IGF levels from test..even after I bumped it up to 10ius per day...still NOTHING..and that was after 3 months.
You said it best.."blind faith"..which is what I had when I started.
I will never buy anything from CHina again. I'll just wait until I am rich and buy American or Euro brand I guess :Tear: 

PLus..I also found out that the Chinese are masters at using fillers that cause side effects..pretty much like what Xtralarg stated at the start of this thread. It's true..and I heard that from a very reliable source.

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## AndriodLee

> Not going to be easy to test at the right time due to very short half life's and absoprbtion rates differing on methed of administration.
> 
> It would be safer to send your hGH to a lab for testing IMO.


when is the best time to get blood work done? Right after a shot?

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## marcus300

In the past ive used Lilly,saizen and Genotropin pens and with all of these brands I'v have amazing results over time, but since ive been using Chinese gh ive had complete crap sent to me, ive had AI's disguised as gh from a well know supplier!!! and ive had side effects what mimic gh, but with legit gh you seem to get used to the water retention and over a short period of time it disappears but with the latest Chinese GH the water stays with you which makes alot of people think you have genuine GH but in reality you just have fake. I feel China have all sides cover to fool us all, it would be nice to get a lab test done and have some hard evidence

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## NotSmall

Hmmm, I can see how it would be easy to simulate the water retention and therefore the resultant CTS symptoms but I have also been getting unmistakeable lethargy from the Riptropin - now obviously I am not suggesting that GH is the only thing that could cause that but by the time they have found a way to recreate ALL the sides from GH and present it lypholised just like the real thing could they not have just as easily made real GH?

Don't get me wrong - I have had my doubts about chinese GH for some time but we seem to damning the chinese very quickly here - are we now suggesting that NONE of the GH coming out of china is real?

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## marcus300

> Hmmm, I can see how it would be easy to simulate the water retention and therefore the resultant CTS symptoms but I have also been getting unmistakeable lethargy from the Riptropin - now obviously I am not suggesting that GH is the only thing that could cause that but by the time they have found a way to recreate ALL the sides from GH and present it lypholised just like the real thing could they not have just as easily made real GH?
> 
> Don't get me wrong - I have had my doubts about chinese GH for some time but we seem to damning the chinese very quickly here - are we now suggesting that NONE of the GH coming out of china is real?


Yes they could easily mimic all of the gh sides for a fraction of the cost of GH, just look at the Country and what they produce. People shouldnt be bloated after months of being on GH but many are, things changed over there after the Olympics thats for sure, i cant say 100% everything is fake but if its cheap it would be more than likely it is IMHO, what we need to do is get it tested..

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## Gear

Unfortunately, this will always be an issue, and the legitimacy of compounds will always be questioned. Best thing to do in this case is to stick with sources with a good reputation, but keep in mind that even trusted sources can also turn sour at any time. That's about all we can do to avoid being scammed.

-Gear

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## marcus300

> Unfortunately, this will always be an issue, and the legitimacy of compounds will always be questioned. Best thing to do in this case is to stick with sources with a good reputation, but keep in mind that even trusted sources can also turn sour at any time. That's about all we can do to avoid being scammed.
> 
> -Gear


But that happened to me Gear, the main guy in China who as the biggest reputation going sent me an AI, it didnt even bloat which alot of recent ones do.

The thing is alot people will stick their head in the sand with this because they wont want to know they have spent $$$$$'s over the last few years on shite, I personally think they cant be trusted they even posion there own people with the slack food laws.

There is one way to find out and thats get it tested and a few of us here are on with that as we speak.

Nice to see you post Gear, ive seen you lurking for ages :Smilie:  you lurker xx

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## Xtralarg

> Unfortunately, this will always be an issue, and the legitimacy of compounds will always be questioned. Best thing to do in this case is to stick with sources with a good reputation, but keep in mind that even trusted sources can also turn sour at any time. That's about all we can do to avoid being scammed.
> 
> -Gear


Im sorry Gear but I have to agree with Marcus on this issue, we have reached the point where are unable to trust China and these so called good sources, sometimes its hard to believe and accept but from where I am sitting its staring me in the face as it has happend to myself and others who are in the same situation.

----------


## Gear

> But that happened to me Gear, the main guy in China who as the biggest reputation going sent me an AI, it didnt even bloat which alot of recent ones do.
> 
> The thing is alot people will stick their head in the sand with this because they wont want to know they have spent $$$$$'s over the last few years on shite, I personally think they cant be trusted they even posion there own people with the slack food laws.
> 
> There is one way to find out and thats get it tested and a few of us here are on with that as we speak.
> 
> Nice to see you post Gear, ive seen you lurking for ages you lurker xx


Yep I feel ya, and believe me I also don't trust anyone, but I have to get my gear from somebody right? And I would really prefer if that somebody had a good rep. Not saying that's a 100% safe, but it's the best I can do to protect myself from being scammed. But yeah, you're right on the trust issue, I don't trust anyone either unless I get it directly from my doc which I've never had luck with!

-Gear

----------


## Gear

> Im sorry Gear but I have to agree with Marcus on this issue, we have reached the point where are unable to trust China and these so called good sources, sometimes its hard to believe and accept but from where I am sitting its staring me in the face as it has happend to myself and others who are in the same situation.


I'm totally with ya, and I am not saying you will be a 100% safe with a source that has a good rep, that's why I said even trusted sources can turn sour. But what other better options are there? If you think getting your HGH from another source located in a different country is safer, I suggest you think again. I simply don't trust anyone, but of course I will prefer to deal with people who haven't received any complaints, and having said that I always still keep in mind that there's still a chance I might be getting ripped off, but I just don't see any other/safer alternatives.

-Gear

----------


## matt77

Guys I may have a way to test your HGH and see if its the real deal for less than $50 if your in the US.

http://www.privatemdlabs.com/lab_tes...24&search=#534

I assume you could just pin your GH then go by the lab that collects your blood sample. It should show up if your GH is real because they claim this test is also used to test for GH use. Might be worth looking into, I will for sure next time. Since its testing for HGH and not IGF it should be hard for china to mimick those :Big Grin:

----------


## Xtralarg

> I'm totally with ya, and I am not saying you will be a 100% safe with a source that has a good rep, that's why I said even trusted sources can turn sour. But what other better options are there? If you think getting your HGH from another source located in a different country is safer, I suggest you think again. I simply don't trust anyone, but of course I will prefer to deal with people who haven't received any complaints, and having said that I always still keep in mind that there's still a chance I might be getting ripped off, but I just don't see any other/safer alternatives.
> 
> -Gear


Thats fair enough and I am glad we agree that not every source can be trusted. Personally though I have to question China no matter what leaves their shores, they fake everything from handbags to eggs! I would feel safer if I could locate pharm grade hgh from the west. I am sure there are good sources from China and you probably are lucky enough to have a long term one, however that is not the case for the vast majority of users and it is these guys who are most at risk here. Marcus said that he was ripped off by one of the biggest and most reputable sources known in China, if it can happen to one then it can happen to all.

If nothing else then this thread can be a heads up to people who want to buy cheap hgh, always remember that if it is cheap then it may well not be what you believe it to be.

Thanks for you input Gear it is much appreciated.

----------


## AndriodLee

> Guys I may have a way to test your HGH and see if its the real deal for less than $50 if your in the US.
> 
> http://www.privatemdlabs.com/lab_tes...24&search=#534
> 
> I assume you could just pin your GH then go by the lab that collects your blood sample. It should show up if your GH is real because they claim this test is also used to test for GH use. Might be worth looking into, I will for sure next time. Since its testing for HGH and not IGF it should be hard for china to mimick those


thanks for the tip, I'm going to have this done no later than next week.

----------


## marcus300

> Guys I may have a way to test your HGH and see if its the real deal for less than $50 if your in the US.
> 
> http://www.privatemdlabs.com/lab_tes...24&search=#534
> 
> I assume you could just pin your GH then go by the lab that collects your blood sample. It should show up if your GH is real because they claim this test is also used to test for GH use. Might be worth looking into, I will for sure next time. Since its testing for HGH and not IGF it should be hard for china to mimick those


I hear what your saying but i'd rather send my vial of gh before it enters my body to be tested, Ive emailed one company who havent got back to me but if you find one please let me know, thanks

----------


## Xtralarg

Great input so far, thanks everyone!

----------


## TheCamel

> Hmmm, I can see how it would be easy to simulate the water retention and therefore the resultant CTS symptoms but I have also been getting unmistakeable lethargy from the Riptropin - now obviously I am not suggesting that GH is the only thing that could cause that but by the time they have found a way to recreate ALL the sides from GH and present it lypholised just like the real thing could they not have just as easily made real GH?
> 
> Don't get me wrong - I have had my doubts about chinese GH for some time but we seem to damning the chinese very quickly here - *are we now suggesting that NONE of the GH coming out of china is real?*


I guess not because in my case it was/is real indeed.
Blood works speak.

----------


## TheCamel

You guys want to complicate your life...

----------


## matt77

> You guys want to complicate your life...


Actually I think they/we just don't want to inject poison in our bodies. Have you been to China? Every corner there is some guy selling fakes of anything you can think of. I bought 5 Rolex watches from a guy for $4 USD. Ofcourse they are fake but thought it would make good gag gifts to piss off my friends.

----------


## Xtralarg

> You guys want to complicate your life...





> Actually I think they/we just don't want to inject poison in our bodies. Have you been to China? Every corner there is some guy selling fakes of anything you can think of. I bought 5 Rolex watches from a guy for $4 USD. Ofcourse they are fake but thought it would make good gag gifts to piss off my friends.


Agreed.

Lets find out exactly what China are selling us. Im sure that there is genuine HGH coming out of China, but I bet for every one package of genuine gear there are 10 fakes.

----------


## Hazard

I get the generic blue tops..... no issues with fakes (as of yet) from my source..... My fathers IGF levels were about 180..... after a week on HGH his levels went to over 600 and the doctor asked him when he went on HGH and how much he was taking..... he KNEW he started using it.

~Haz~

----------


## NotSmall

> I guess not because in my case it was/is real indeed.
> Blood works speak.


What are you running?

----------


## marcus300

> I get the generic blue tops..... no issues with fakes (as of yet) from my source..... My fathers IGF levels were about 180..... after a week on HGH his levels went to over 600 and the doctor asked him when he went on HGH and how much he was taking..... he KNEW he started using it.
> 
> ~Haz~


Sounds good but you do know they use igf in some cases!!

----------


## russiandave

This is a scary topic because this is a lot of money we are talking about as well as potentially injecting the wrong stuff into our bodies.

I order from a good source but they ship the hgh from china. I think we are all in the same boat and hopefully someone can find a way to test it within a fair financial amount or some other option

----------


## Xtralarg

> This is a scary topic because this is a lot of money we are talking about as well as potentially injecting the wrong stuff into our bodies.
> 
> I order from a good source but they ship the hgh from china. I think we are all in the same boat and hopefully someone can find a way to test it within a fair financial amount or some other option


What results have you experienced?

----------


## russiandave

Been on it for seven months at five iu daily. Hard to gauge because I ran a var test cycle four months into it.

Let's see...

I've had hand numbness and tingling. I did feel like it was helping me slim down but I also was eating better and working out harder. I did have better sleep and felt better in general. I purchased my stuff in january and am about to reup soon so I hope we can figure something out otherwise I'll have to just hope n pray that what I inject is legit

----------


## bjpennnn

looks like i will start saving for the good shit now to ha.

----------


## frawnz

I finally got my bloodwork (IGF-1) back today. It's not good news, however.

My baseline before ever touching HGH was 289.

Now, after almost 2 months at 5 IU ED and 10 IU an hour before taking the test, my HGH was 364. The 10 IU an hour before the test alone should have put my IGF levels out of the park. Below is a graph from a study I found that shows how HGH peaks after injection:



Note how the HGH peaks almost exactly an hour after injection and the drastic incline in levels directly related to the injection.

I should have been seeing big numbers in the 800+ range. Keep in mind this is from a very "trusted" source who has been around for a long time and swears by his product.

----------


## russiandave

damn
thats pretty disheartening.
did you contact your source and show them this?





> I finally got my bloodwork (IGF-1) back today. It's not good news, however.
> 
> My baseline before ever touching HGH was 289.
> 
> Now, after almost 2 months at 5 IU ED and 10 IU an hour before taking the test, my HGH was 364. The 10 IU an hour before the test alone should have put my IGF levels out of the park. Below is a graph from a study I found that shows how HGH peaks after injection:
> 
> 
> 
> Note how the HGH peaks almost exactly an hour after injection and the drastic incline in levels directly related to the injection.
> ...

----------


## frawnz

Ya, I just sent them an email. I'm not sure what kind of response will actually make me feel better though. I doubt he's going to refund my money, and if they just send me more or a different kind, how do I know that that will be any better?

----------


## russiandave

post the response you get.

damn, this thread makes me depressed lol.

no one likes to waste their hard earned money or time and the thought of the hgh being fake sucks

----------


## marcus300

> I finally got my bloodwork (IGF-1) back today. It's not good news, however.
> 
> My baseline before ever touching HGH was 289.
> 
> Now, after almost 2 months at 5 IU ED and 10 IU an hour before taking the test, my HGH was 364. The 10 IU an hour before the test alone should have put my IGF levels out of the park. Below is a graph from a study I found that shows how HGH peaks after injection:
> 
> 
> 
> Note how the HGH peaks almost exactly an hour after injection and the drastic incline in levels directly related to the injection.
> ...


Wooow, the body produces very small amounts and if your number was 289 naturally and you pushed 364 your gh is garbage or very very underdosed, what a shame.

Can you tell me what sides have you had since running it?
How does it mix?

----------


## frawnz

The only sides I got was an instant increase in weight (like 8 pounds over 2 weeks), which I assume to be water retention. I stopped taking the HGH after I did the blood test, and I have dropped back down 5 pounds already.

The packaging was a lot better than the generics I had previously. Although, as I mentioned, the boxes/labels shipped seperately, and the vials don't seem to sit in their trays very well (at least not how you'd expect if they were manufactured together).

The HGH itself is your typical powder cake, and it takes a good deal of slowly rolling the vial to get it all to dissolve when adding BA water. The vials have a nice vacuum going on as well.

But ya, a 75 point gain from 5 IU ED (and 10 IU on injection day) is negligible at best.

----------


## marcus300

> The only sides I got was an instant increase in weight (like 8 pounds over 2 weeks), which I assume to be water retention. I stopped taking the HGH after I did the blood test, and I have dropped back down 5 pounds already.
> 
> The packaging was a lot better than the generics I had previously. Although, as I mentioned, the boxes/labels shipped seperately, and the vials don't seem to sit in their trays very well (at least not how you'd expect if they were manufactured together).
> 
> The HGH itself is your typical powder cake, and it takes a good deal of slowly rolling the vial to get it all to dissolve when adding BA water. The vials have a nice vacuum going on as well.
> 
> But ya, a 75 point gain from 5 IU ED (and 10 IU on injection day) is negligible at best.


From the below study which shows the average ius daily in adolescents males and healthy adults, it clearly shows that the different between 2.1ius daily (700ug adolescents males) to 1.2ius (400ug adult males) is 0.9ius which relates to 300ug. You had an increase of 75 in your levels which is less than quarter of an iu. You havent been injecting GH from those readings at 5 ius and 10ius. I hope you get your money back because there is no point in him re-sending more gh because it seems to be an anti diuretic. 



_Young adolescents secrete HGH at the rate of about 700 μg/day, while healthy adults secrete HGH at the rate of about 400 μg/day. 

1mg = 3iu
700ug = .7mg
.7mg = 2.1iu This is how much HGH an adolescent secretes in a day
.4mg = 1.2iu This is how much HGH an adult secretes in a day

(Gardner, David G., Shoback, Dolores (2007). Greenspan's Basic and Clinical Endocrinology (8th ed.). New York: McGraw-Hill Medical. pp. 193201. ISBN 0-07-144011-9.)_

----------


## TheCamel

> What are you running?


EuroHormones / Hy.getropin / Somatrope




> I finally got my bloodwork (IGF-1) back today. It's not good news, however.
> 
> My baseline before ever touching HGH was 289.
> 
> Now, after almost 2 months at 5 IU ED and 10 IU an hour before taking the test, my HGH was 364. The 10 IU an hour before the test alone should have put my IGF levels out of the park. Below is a graph from a study I found that shows how HGH peaks after injection:
> 
> 
> 
> Note how the HGH peaks almost exactly an hour after injection and the drastic incline in levels directly related to the injection.
> ...


I don't understand why you didn't check also for somatotropin.

----------


## NotSmall

> I finally got my bloodwork (IGF-1) back today. It's not good news, however.
> 
> My baseline before ever touching HGH was 289.
> 
> Now, after almost 2 months at 5 IU ED and 10 IU an hour before taking the test, my HGH was 364. The 10 IU an hour before the test alone should have put my IGF levels out of the park. Below is a graph from a study I found that shows how HGH peaks after injection:
> 
> 
> 
> Note how the HGH peaks almost exactly an hour after injection and the drastic incline in levels directly related to the injection.
> ...


That is shocking - Riptropin right?

Obviously you should have gained ALOT more than 75 points from the 5iu ED, not sure about the 10iu an hour before though - I think it takes longer for the IGF-1 peak following an injection (unless I am mistaken that graph shows something different) - although that is irrelevent as like I said the 75 points from 5iu ED is basically no gain at all.

----------


## fossilfuel7

> That is shocking - Riptropin right?
> 
> Obviously you should have gained ALOT more than 75 points from the 5iu ED, not sure about the 10iu an hour before though - I think it takes longer for the IGF-1 peak following an injection (unless I am mistaken that graph shows something different) - although that is irrelevent as like I said the 75 points from 5iu ED is basically no gain at all.


I had the almost the exact same results as well.

I am now starting a thread about my experience.

----------


## frawnz

> EuroHormones / Hy.getropin / Somatrope
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand why you didn't check also for somatotropin.



I don't know what you're talking about, bro. The only standard blood test that I know of that's immediately available to us average Joe's that indicate HGH levels are IGF-1 tests. I think you may be confusing Somatropin with Somatomedin C, which is just another name for IGF-1.

If you have something in your area that tests for other things, more power to you. I've been to my local lab and various do-it-at-home blood spot websites and no one mentions whatever it is you're talking about. I had a full blood panel done and the only thing to do with HGH is the IGF-1 test.

----------


## Spartans09

Wow. This is a very eye opening discussion. I just started my first run of GH a couple of weeks ago. Started at 1.5 IU and going up to 2.5-3 IU's long-term. Popped one at 3 IU's a couple of days ago and my hands swelled and tightened especially in the morning. Maybe the dreaded anti-diuretic? Fvck, I hope someone comes across a way to test this stuff. I may get my igf-1 done in the next few days anyways.
I am halfway through an anabolic cycle as well. I am using GH for my Crohn's disease and general anti-aging, well being properties. I'm 39.

----------


## matt77

> I don't know what you're talking about, bro. The only standard blood test that I know of that's immediately available to us average Joe's that indicate HGH levels are IGF-1 tests. I think you may be confusing Somatropin with Somatomedin C, which is just another name for IGF-1.
> 
> If you have something in your area that tests for other things, more power to you. I've been to my local lab and various do-it-at-home blood spot websites and no one mentions whatever it is you're talking about. I had a full blood panel done and the only thing to do with HGH is the IGF-1 test.


http://www.privatemdlabs.com/lab_tes...24&search=#534

You may want to check this out. I posted it a few posts above. I'm not sure what they test for but IGF-1 and IGF-2 are right below the HGH test so I think its a direct test. If I had some chinatropin haha Id pin 5 ius and head to the collection lab. Now I don't know if I'll ever try GH from china.

----------


## Xtralarg

So it seems that we have exposed a massive Chinese scam.

What we need to do now is get the product tested so we can find out exactly what they are selling us. Although this breakthrough is at first going to shock and upset a lot of people it is best in the long run so we can prevent this from happening in the future. Keep up the good work guys and girls and we will get to the bottom of this and fully expose this dreadful situation.

----------


## bjpennnn

this is depressing i have spent a few thousand on this shit in the past ha. hmmm so serostim is the way to go huh

----------


## Xtralarg

> this is depressing i have spent a few thousand on this shit in the past ha. hmmm so serostim is the way to go huh


Not necessarily, nobody is saying that everything that comes out of China is rubbish, im sure there is some decent gh...in fact I know that there is because I have had some. What appears to be happening now though is that there is a lot of stuff coming out of China that is rubbish and this is what we need to find out more about.

----------


## TheCamel

> I don't know what you're talking about, bro. The only standard blood test that I know of that's immediately available to us average Joe's that indicate HGH levels are IGF-1 tests. *I think you may be confusing Somatropin with Somatomedin C, which is just another name for IGF-1.*
> If you have something in your area that tests for other things, more power to you. I've been to my local lab and various do-it-at-home blood spot websites and no one mentions whatever it is you're talking about. I had a full blood panel done and the only thing to do with HGH is the IGF-1 test.


 :Haha:  :Haha:  :Haha: 

Lol I laugh because there isn't another thing I could do really!

You are the one confused. You are on HGH and have no idea of what is somatropin? Lol, come on...  :Wink/Grin: 

The main reason we get the following 2, is to check:

*Somatomedin (IGF-1)* tells you how good is your HGH or if it is underdosed.
*Somatropin (rHGH)* tells you if your drug is real, and it is a synthetic drug.

*Somatotropin (HGH)* is the endogenous substance we secrete as humans and can only be produced by taking it from dead people.

You are welcome.

----------


## NotSmall

> Lol I laugh because there isn't another thing I could do really!
> 
> You are the one confused. You are on HGH and have no idea of what is somatropin? Lol, come on... 
> 
> The main reason we get the following 2, is to check:
> 
> *Somatomedin (IGF-1)* tells you how good is your HGH or if it is underdosed.
> *Somatropin (HGH)* tells you if your drug is real, and it is a synthetic drug.
> 
> ...


Are you sure you haven't got HGH and rHGH the wrong way round? - The "r" stands for "recombinant" and indicates the synthetic version.

----------


## NotSmall

So torn as to what to do now my head is spinning - I have the same brand of GH as frawnz from the same source so unless there has been a massive blunder on his IGF test it would seem his GH is fake and therefore the chances of mine being real are pretty slim! 

I normally mix a vial in the evening for my 5iu bedtime shot and my 5iu am shot but last night I didn't bother. Part of me thinks that it might just be GH so don't break the run after being on for 6 months and part of me thinks "How can it be real GH?" after hearing about frawnz's IGF results considering we bought from the same guy and if it isn't real GH then fuck injecting it and putting up with this ridiculous lethargy.

I looked at my reflection in the mirror this morning and my abs were looking very nice and lean and again I'm conflicted thinking "Well what if it is real GH thats been helping me get so lean and now I stop?" and then part of me thinks I look nice and lean this morning because I've been injecting an anti-diuretic and so by missing my bedtime shot some of the water has dropped off and actually if it isn't real GH then putting the financial implications to one side (FUUUUUUCK!!!) then that means that I have acheived this leanness WITHOUT GH so if and when I get some real GH my results will be so much better....

^^See what I mean about my head spinning! lol

----------


## TheCamel

> Are you sure you haven't got HGH and rHGH the wrong way round? - The "r" stands for "recombinant" and indicates the synthetic version.


Yes I did  :1laugh: 
Thanks for noticing, it means you read my post lol :wg

----------


## marcus300

> So torn as to what to do now my head is spinning - I have the same brand of GH as frawnz from the same source so unless there has been a massive blunder on his IGF test it would seem his GH is fake and therefore the chances of mine being real are pretty slim! 
> 
> I normally mix a vial in the evening for my 5iu bedtime shot and my 5iu am shot but last night I didn't bother. Part of me thinks that it might just be GH so don't break the run after being on for 6 months and part of me thinks "How can it be real GH?" after hearing about frawnz's IGF results considering we bought from the same guy and if it isn't real GH then fuck injecting it and putting up with this ridiculous lethargy.
> 
> I looked at my reflection in the mirror this morning and my abs were looking very nice and lean and again I'm conflicted thinking "Well what if it is real GH thats been helping me get so lean and now I stop?" and then part of me thinks I look nice and lean this morning because I've been injecting an anti-diuretic and so by missing my bedtime shot some of the water has dropped off and actually if it isn't real GH then putting the financial implications to one side (FUUUUUUCK!!!) then that means that I have acheived this leanness WITHOUT GH so if and when I get some real GH my results will be so much better....
> 
> ^^See what I mean about my head spinning! lol


Get it tested or get yourself blood tested if you want to be sure but ive had many fakes from many different sources and the latest ones what give you water retention would make everyone stick their head in the sand, its time to wake up,

----------


## TheCamel

> *Get it tested or get yourself blood tested* if you want to be sure but ive had many fakes from many different sources and the latest ones what give you water retention would make everyone stick their head in the sand, its time to wake up,


no other solution i guess

----------


## NotSmall

> Get it tested or get yourself blood tested if you want to be sure but ive had many fakes from many different sources and the latest ones what give you water retention would make everyone stick their head in the sand, its time to wake up,


Should my doctor be able to test me?

----------


## NotSmall

frawnz & fossilfuel - Do the caps on your riptropin have the "double helix"-looking spiral riptropin logo on them?

----------


## marcus300

> Should my doctor be able to test me?


Yes  :Smilie:  make sure its for growth hormone 

But it would be better if we could find a lab what tested the gh before it enters the body, because some china source's are sending out igf.

----------


## marcus300

A lot of people wont acknowledge that their Chinese Growth is fake, everyone thinks their supplier is the best but in reality all these people are doing is sticking their head in the sand and not looking at the facts, who would want to admit they have wasted $$$$'s on fake GH! 
 
We all know that China is the capital of counterfeit and I know plenty of guys who have been sold fake, ive been sold complete crap from one of the most reputable dealers there is and the latest batch of Chinese GH what mimic the sides of gh is very clever and can be produced at a fraction of the price of gh and you would never know because your getting the CT sides and water retention, and what about the other fake gh's what are AI's, IGF and the old school one HCG .You shouldn't be getting water retention after months of using GH you should be tight,ripped and conditioned but all because we still having the CT sides we think its GH, well I ask anyone to pay the price of some Pharm grade gh and watch the difference, you will be shocked. 

No one can be sure their chinese gh is 100% unless they get themselves tested or better still the Gh lab tested. Ive recently heard of someone having their gh lab tested and it came back bunk, this is local to me and I am in the process of finding out which Lab it was sent to so we all can get it tested. If your buying cheap GH I would really suspect it could be fake especially if its coming out of the counterfeit capital of the world and that's no matter who your source is, cheap = cheerful.

----------


## fossilfuel7

> frawnz & fossilfuel - Do the caps on your riptropin have the "double helix"-looking spiral riptropin logo on them?


Yep, they sure do. We all got it from the same guy. He and one other guy are the only ones selling Riptropin and it all comes from the same place.

If you look in his threads, somewhere he even talks about how the Hyge tropin he sells comes from the same place as the Riptropin and how the Hyge tropin websites except his are all fake.

What a f***ing joke and a scammer he is.

----------


## fossilfuel7

> A lot of people wont acknowledge that their Chinese Growth is fake, everyone thinks their supplier is the best but in reality all these people are doing is sticking their head in the sand and not looking at the facts, who would want to admit they have wasted $$$$'s on fake GH! 
> 
> We all know that China is the capital of counterfeit and I know plenty of guys who have been sold fake, ive been sold complete crap from one of the most reputable dealers there is and the latest batch of Chinese GH what mimic the sides of gh is very clever and can be produced at a fraction of the price of gh and you would never know because your getting the CT sides and water retention, and what about the other fake gh's what are AI's, IGF and the old school one HCG .You shouldn't be getting water retention after months of using GH you should be tight,ripped and conditioned but all because we still having the CT sides we think its GH, well I ask anyone to pay the price of some Pharm grade gh and watch the difference, you will be shocked. 
> 
> No one can be sure their chinese gh is 100% unless they get themselves tested or better still the Gh lab tested. Ive recently heard of someone having their gh lab tested and it came back bunk, this is local to me and I am in the process of finding out which Lab it was sent to so we all can get it tested. If your buying cheap GH I would really suspect it could be fake especially if its coming out of the counterfeit capital of the world and that's no matter who your source is, cheap = cheerful.


Marcus, your post is spot on and is exactly what needs to be said.

I'm so glad this thread was started so that I and others can come forward at the same time to contribute our current experiences and not feel alone.

----------


## NotSmall

> Yep, they sure do. We all got it from the same guy. He and one other guy are the only ones selling Riptropin and it all comes from the same place.
> 
> If you look in his threads, somewhere he even talks about how the Hyge tropin he sells comes from the same place as the Riptropin and how the Hyge tropin websites except his are real.
> 
> What a f***ing joke and a scammer he is.


Fuck - seems like there's very little chance mine are real GH then, also kinda looks to me as if it is the riptropin brand that is bogus as opposed to us all having fake riptropin as my security numbers check out on their site.

----------


## marcus300

> Fuck - seems like there's very little chance mine are real GH then, also kinda looks to me as if it is the riptropin brand that is bogus as opposed to us all having fake riptropin as my security numbers check out on their site.


Looks like we shouldnt take any notice of security number checks, labels, coloured tops or boxes but rather that white substance inside. Can you ask for your money back NS?

----------


## fossilfuel7

> Fuck - seems like there's very little chance mine are real GH then, also kinda looks to me as if it is the riptropin brand that is bogus as opposed to us all having fake riptropin as my security numbers check out on their site.


Did you know that the Riptropin site is run by the dude selling the crap?

The security sticker thing is all part of the scheme obviously...to make it seem like some big Chinese pharm company is running the site.

----------


## NotSmall

> Looks like we shouldnt take any notice of security number checks, labels, coloured tops or boxes but rather that white substance inside. Can you ask for your money back NS?


Well I will try but first I will get my own blood test done, I don't doubt the word of frawnz or fossilfuel7 for a second but it sounds a bit weak if I demand a refund based on a blood test that someone else who I have never met had done - I called my Dr's office today and he is going to call me tomorrow - should I just come straight out and tell him why I want a test for GH & IGF?





> Did you know that the Riptropin site is run by the dude selling the crap?
> 
> The security sticker thing is all part of the scheme obviously...to make it seem like some big Chinese pharm company is running the site.


There is also another fake riptropin site which, as silly as it sounds, kinda made me think the other one was legit - you don't expect there to be a fake of a fake!

----------


## fossilfuel7

> Well I will try but first I will get my own blood test done, I don't doubt the word of frawnz or fossilfuel7 for a second but it sounds a bit weak if I demand a refund based on a blood test that someone else who I have never met had done - I called my Dr's office today and he is going to call me tomorrow - should I just come straight out and tell him why I want a test for GH & IGF?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is also another fake riptropin site which, as silly as it sounds, kinda made me think the other one was legit - you don't expect there to be a fake of a fake!



You know what, I just checked that out and your right there is another Riptropin site. There wasn't when I ordered 3-4 months ago. Funny that they both have the security sticker check option on them.

----------


## marcus300

> Well I will try but first I will get my own blood test done, I don't doubt the word of frawnz or fossilfuel7 for a second but it sounds a bit weak if I demand a refund based on a blood test that someone else who I have never met had done - I called my Dr's office today and he is going to call me tomorrow - should I just come straight out and tell him why I want a test for GH & IGF?
> There is also another fake riptropin site which, as silly as it sounds, kinda made me think the other one was legit - you don't expect there to be a fake of a fake!


Good idea, you never know

----------


## matt77

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/growth-hormone

Heres an article on GH testing from webmd that talks about testing for GH. It does say the test is directly for GH and not IGF so it should tell if your willing to inject. Also the lab I linked above that does GH testing has a 24hr urine GH test that will give you a reading for every hour over the course of a day. Im sure one could tell how good there GH is with this test but it is kinda high $200.

Another thing I thought about is if someone could find out how they test for GH in blood or urine they could test the GH directly if they had the skill and access to the proper equipment. Surely someone has an awesome science lab at there university they have access to play in :Big Grin:

----------


## NotSmall

> You know what, I just checked that out and your right there is another Riptropin site. There wasn't when I ordered 3-4 months ago. Funny that they both have the security sticker check option on them.


Yeah but it isn't really there on the .net site

----------


## Matt

> Well I will try but first I will get my own blood test done, I don't doubt the word of frawnz or fossilfuel7 for a second but it sounds a bit weak if I demand a refund based on a blood test that someone else who I have never met had done - I called my Dr's office today and he is going to call me tomorrow - should I just come straight out and tell him why I want a test for GH & IGF?


Heres an idea and im seeing my doctor in the morning over my trt...

If i was rushed to the hospital because i had swallowed something the doctors would automatically asked what it was i took. If i didnt know they'd ask if i had more so they could test it to see exactly what it was... Now i m not suggesting doing this although i am tempted.. But when i go in the morning im going to take a gh vial and ask her if its possible to have it tested as im injecting it..

She may just tell me to fvck off but at least she might tell me where i can have it tested....

----------


## marcus300

http://estore.websitepros.com/1791782/Detail.bok?no=33

----------


## fossilfuel7

> http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/growth-hormone
> 
> Heres an article on GH testing from webmd that talks about testing for GH. It does say the test is directly for GH and not IGF so it should tell if your willing to inject. Also the lab I linked above that does GH testing has a 24hr urine GH test that will give you a reading for every hour over the course of a day. Im sure one could tell how good there GH is with this test but it is kinda high $200.
> 
> Another thing I thought about is if someone could find out how they test for GH in blood or urine they could test the GH directly if they had the skill and access to the proper equipment. Surely someone has an awesome science lab at there university they have access to play in


Matt, I had the urinary GH test done by AAL reference labs. My Doc always uses them and says that is an excellent indication of the amount of GH in your system. I even injected 10 iu before my first collection.

----------


## Xtralarg

This lab will test yout hgh

www.arlok.com

----------


## Hazard

awwww man..... i'm all depressed now...... i'll fly to china and hang the fvckers......

All I can say about mine..... is it's cheap (-1) - I was initially a little bloated but that disappeared fast..... I had tingly hands and fingers for over a month..... I had carpal tunnel for about 2 months..... and now it doesn't feel like anything is wrong. My HGH is a little powder cake..... the vial has a good vacuum..... and it doesn't all dissolve right away - it's gotta be gently swirled.

I have an order comming in too damnit..... I guess i'll keep running what I have and once we find a lab that we can send our vials too.... i'll get it tested.....

My father had another blood test done last week..... his IGF results should be in today or tomorrow.....

~Haz~

----------


## marcus300

Home testing kits http://estore.websitepros.com/1791782/Detail.bok?no=33

----------


## matt77

> Matt, I had the urinary GH test done by AAL reference labs. My Doc always uses them and says that is an excellent indication of the amount of GH in your system. I even injected 10 iu before my first collection.


Good, well I guess that means we know for sure it works detecting fake GH. If I had the cash I'd order a kit from every supplier I know of and go get tested after trying every vial but even then we wouldn't know if all vials are good or if they send good and bad sometimes.

----------


## Hazard

> This lab will test yout hgh
> 
> www.arlok.com


I just requested a quote from them.....

~Haz~

----------


## Spartans09

Haz-

I wonder if they would give a group rate if it comes back pricey? I have to believe there is at least 20 of us who would jump on right away. We could have many suppliers pegged for legit or shyt product in a matter of weeks. At least keep these cvnts somewhat honest.

----------


## russiandave

Guys remember two things before writing off all the sources. U can test to see if it is hcg and at least from my source igf is more expensive than hgh so I don't see why they would make that switch.

Just food for thought

----------


## spicyer

Awesome all the time and passion that has been invested in this thread. Im not sure if I should laugh or cry, I feel like the kid who loved cheerios until someone pissed in them. I'm going to try my sympathetic doctor again. There is nothing he can say or do to me that is worse than me not knowing if my hgh is the real deal. One thing I will say though is if it isn't then I got my shit going on for a 48year old. Last thought, what could the chinese be putting in my hgh that would make my nails grow 1/8" or more per week?

----------


## marcus300

> Awesome all the time and passion that has been invested in this thread. Im not sure if I should laugh or cry, I feel like the kid who loved cheerios until someone pissed in them. I'm going to try my sympathetic doctor again. There is nothing he can say or do to me that is worse than me not knowing if my hgh is the real deal. One thing I will say though is if it isn't then I got my shit going on for a 48year old. Last thought, what could the chinese be putting in my hgh that would make my nails grow 1/8" or more per week?


I am sure not everything coming out of China is fake, surely it cant be but I we have to remember who we are dealing with here, the only way to make sure your gh is gh is to get it tested at a lab.

----------


## NotSmall

Well my doc is supposed to be calling me today and I'm going to ask him for a bloodtest - trouble is I've stopped shooting the riptropin as I am not overly keen to keep injecting myself with this chinese unknown substance - if I book a blood test for one day next week how many days before do I need to be injecting in order to affect the test in a noticeable way?

----------


## TheCamel

> Well my doc is supposed to be calling me today and I'm going to ask him for a bloodtest - trouble is I've stopped shooting the riptropin as I am not overly keen to keep injecting myself with this chinese unknown substance - if I book a blood test for one day next week how many days before do I need to be injecting in order to affect the test in a noticeable way?


1 hour if IM.
3 hours if sub-Q.

----------


## NotSmall

Just spoke to my GP on the phone and he says he hasn't got access to tests for IGF-1 or somatropin - in fact he didn't even know what they were!

----------


## Matt

> Just spoke to my GP on the phone and he says he hasn't got access to tests for IGF-1 or somatropin - in fact he didn't even know what they were!


Same here, i asked my doctor this morning and she had no idea what i was talking about..

Even worse i should have started trt on Monday, my doctor wouldnt start me on it until she had spoken to the senior doctor as she had no clue as to how one would be prescribe testosterone .. The senior doctor who had been at the clinic for 25 years said that he had never known anyone run trt so they've made me an appointment with an endo..

----------


## NotSmall

> Same here, i asked my doctor this morning and she had no idea what i was talking about..
> 
> Even worse i should have started trt on Monday, my doctor wouldnt start me on it until she had spoken to the senior doctor as she had no clue as to how one would be prescribe testosterone.. The senior doctor who had been at the clinic for 25 years said that he had never known anyone run trt so they've made me an appointment with an endo..


Yeah my Doc has at least now phoned me back and told me a local private clinic that will do it, he reckons it will cost around £100 - I will report back when I have spoken to them...

----------


## Fantomg

I appreciate your persistence Marcus300. And you've thrown a good point in regarding IGF-1 Testing at the lab. "They can use IGF-1 in place of HGH". Now what?! Thought I had the conclusive test locally. They have "Lab Express" all over my area and test for IGF-1 for cheap. My circles have always tested their IGF-1 for their proof of efficacy. I will say that the tests with the yellow tops out of china (IGF-1) as of lately have been high with as little as 2iu/day (near 400 from one friend). But NOW that you've brought the point up about these guys putting IGF-1 in the bottles. Shite! Back to the drawing board. 
I have called 13 of the 16 labs across the U.S. I've googled and asked about directly testing my HGH (the bottle). None so far do this and couldn't even point me to a lab that does. It had nothing to do with the legalities of testing, they just didn't do this or know someone that did.

So... (this thread is one of the best I've read) - I'm late for work, but will start on a new endeavor when I return. I will start by calling "Lab Express" and seeing if they offer an actual HGH test (not IGF-1) and can shed light on testing for Somatotropin levels. They test so many of us out here and even have started advertising about their Testosterone and IGF-1 tests. They obviously know what we're up to and have enough people coming in for this. 
I will try to post my findings here in this thread this eve or tomorrow morn. There are enough here that I am sure someone's going to come up with a good definitive method for testing for efficacy/authenticity. "Not Small" - I have gone through EXACTLY what you've done, ie; getting up in the A.M. looking at the abs, going back n forth and back n forth regarding "is it the HGH?!" or...?? However - I just started my 40's, and have gone from 260ish to 235-240 in the past several months on yellow tops with the diet staying the same. Gear isn't a factor, I know what I get from anything I take steroidwise. I'm looking like about "10-12 weeks out" at 235-240. What other substance would do this?!
(Sides were immediate water in the first month - gone after about 6 weeks. Right hand knuckles hurting badly every morning and complete loss of limbs ((numbness)) almost every morn since about 6 weeks. Much deeper sleep now. I've always had a sleep problem and now I sleep like a baby. THEN - big weight drop after about 2 1/2 months from 260 down to 235-240 which has leveled off now. I fluctuate between 235ish and close to 240 each week now and have been on the Chinese yellow tops for, damn - should have took more notice, but I'd have to say 5 1/2 months closest guess. 4 iu m-f.
Hope this helps a little
Again - I will call the lab or 2 here that test and post what they say about testing DIRECTLY for hgh levels and mention Somototropin testing to them.
Thanks guys for being so diligent on this topic. We may find the answer conclusively, who knows.

----------


## Fantomg

I will also google the hell out of labs that may test actual substances. This will be a longer process I'm sure. I should post which I've called/emailed as to eliminate any duplicate efforts others may be embarking on themselves. I haven't had any sort of luck finding U.S. lab(s) that test. 

Marcus300 - I thought it may be easier for you to find cooperative labs since geographically you live where the laws seem to be much less strict.?? (I am speaking about testing actual substances not bloodwork). I imagine that when/if I DO find a lab that does this, they may not do this due to the laws here)

----------


## Xtralarg

This lab is based in the Uk but to my understanding they will ship worldwide.

They will do HGH tests, IgF-1 tests etc.

http://www.medichecks.com/index.cfm?...FQIB4wodqkAAxg

----------


## Matt

> This lab is based in the Uk but to my understanding they will ship worldwide.
> 
> They will do HGH tests, IgF-1 tests etc.
> 
> http://www.medichecks.com/index.cfm?...FQIB4wodqkAAxg


I notice they have labs in London and Manchester and you can make an appointment, i will be doing this tomorrow...

----------


## Fantomg

> I notice they have labs in London and Manchester and you can make an appointment, i will be doing this tomorrow...


Will you be testing for IGF-1? I ask this because Marcus300 mentioned that hgh may be counterfeited with IGF-1. This has raised concerns with myself and my lab work (igf-1 levels). I am asking my lab if they have a somatotropin test or one that specically measures growth hormone levels rather than IGF-1 which is just an indicator.

----------


## Xtralarg

The HGH test is the one to go for.

----------


## Fantomg

> The HGH test is the one to go for.


I just got off a 25 minute phone call with LAB EXPRESS. Couldn’t get the tech on the phone but did talk to a lady in management who claimed to be well versed regarding their services.

This is what they were able to explain to me.

They do not have a Somatotropin or Somatropin test. She has never heard of that.
They do have:

HGH Test $98.00
IGF-1 Test $108.00
IGF-2 Test $230.00
IGF Binding Protein 3 Test $125.00

She added that there were ranges given on her “sheet” only for:
IGF Binding Protein 1 Ranges (18-50yrs old) = 13-73
IGF Binding Protein 2 Ranges (18-50yrs old) 50-240 

And there is a Growth Hormone Response (TIME SAMPLE) Test and said that it showed 2 result columns labeled GH1 & GH2. She said this was just added to their services and she did not have pricing yet.

She could not elaborate past anything I have posted here. I must have burned her ear off with questions. She was more than happy to answer what she could but said my questions would be best directed to the lab technician. I got his voice mail and will attempt another call before leaving a message. I did explain to her that I was after the most accurate test indicating how much exogenous growth hormone was in my blood and had heard that there are more specific tests than the IGF-1 test.

OK – Anyone care to take a stab at this? Interpretations welcome. Which is THE test? (Xtralarg, are you talking about the 1st test?)

----------


## rmacgurn

> I just got off a 25 minute phone call with LAB EXPRESS. Couldnt get the tech on the phone but did talk to a lady in management who claimed to be well versed regarding their services.
> 
> This is what they were able to explain to me.
> 
> They do not have a Somatotropin or Somatropin test. She has never heard of that.
> They do have:
> 
> HGH Test $98.00
> IGF-1 Test $108.00
> ...


unless you have changed your mind, these are all blood tests, earlier we were talking about testing the product from china before the injection. I guess if you have base lines you can do the blood tests but that will not tell you much about the purity of the product or what else might be in it....

----------


## P3rf3ctionist

My source is one of the most well known sources throughout a region and has a client base of 50+ gyms within my region and has been in the 'game' for almost 10 years and I have 100% trust in what he says, and he has given his gurantee that the Chinese HGH stuff he has is legitimate and I so far and everybody I know who have used his stuff have no reason to complain.

He deals in mainly in two brands, both of which are Chinese generic HGH, ********** and GTropin. I have been on Gtropin for the past 7 weeks now and have deffinately seen visible results at 4IU's and have most of the text book symptoms of exogenous use of HGH. Here are some of the pictures of the stuff I have.

This is the brand i'm currently using and I have been impressed so far, I have 800ius of this stuff left:





********** (Haven't started it yet but have 1400IU's of this)

----------


## fossilfuel7

That G-tropin is definitely real.

----------


## P3rf3ctionist

> That G-tropin is definitely real.


what about your view on the hyge bro? It had the anti-fake code and people have used this and have rated it very highly, the only reason I bought the two different bands was to compare them but i can replace the 1400iu's of hyge with g-tropin if needed.

----------


## Fantomg

> unless you have changed your mind, these are all blood tests, earlier we were talking about testing the product from china before the injection. I guess if you have base lines you can do the blood tests but that will not tell you much about the purity of the product or what else might be in it....


Point taken. I will eagerly await your post of a lab for mass spect testing etc. No baseline anyhow. Wasn't sure we'd discovery such a lab that was willing to accept private pay for testing on a controlled substance. Will be thrilled to death if they do and eager to lay my wallet down.

----------


## fossilfuel7

> what about your view on the hyge bro? It had the anti-fake code and people have used this and have rated it very highly, the only reason I bought the two different bands was to compare them but i can replace the 1400iu's of hyge with g-tropin if needed.


Honestly, I don't know about the Hyge tropin because supposedly there are a lot of fakes floating around.
The G-tropin is real pharmaceutical grade GH made by a real factory and company.

----------


## NotSmall

> Honestly, I don't know about the Hyge tropin because supposedly there are a lot of fakes floating around.
> *The G-tropin is real pharmaceutical grade GH made by a real factory and company*.


How do you know this?

It looks like a jintropin copy, even G-Sci is a bit like GenSci

----------


## NotSmall

Anyone in the UK had any luck booking an appropriate blood test yet?

I'm being passed from pillar to post over here, lol, am waiting on a call back from the 5th person I have spoken to which seems the most promising so far - fingers crossed...

----------


## Xtralarg

> Anyone in the UK had any luck booking an appropriate blood test yet?
> 
> I'm being passed from pillar to post over here, lol, am waiting on a call back from the 5th person I have spoken to which seems the most promising so far - fingers crossed...


Did you try the one I mentioned?

----------


## Matt

> Anyone in the UK had any luck booking an appropriate blood test yet?
> 
> I'm being passed from pillar to post over here, lol, am waiting on a call back from the 5th person I have spoken to which seems the most promising so far - fingers crossed...


 
Ive just got off the phone with the people that XL put up, in his link...

Their going to phone me in 5mins however she said its one test for igf-1 which will indicate if ive been injecting or not..

So now im more confused..

----------


## Matt

Btw they are good though, they will even come to your home and test you there, but they have thousands of clinics all over the country, i have one almost next door....

----------


## Xtralarg

> how do you know this?
> 
> It looks like a jintropin copy, even g-sci is a bit like gensci


x 2 .

----------


## Xtralarg

> Ive just got off the phone with the people that XL put up, in his link...
> 
> Their going to phone me in 5mins however she said its one test for igf-1 which will indicate if ive been injecting or not..
> 
> So now im more confused..


How did you go on?

----------


## NotSmall

OK I have found a place through one of XL's links that will test a vial for £472.

It's alot but I think it's the only way to be 100% sure as there seems to be a huge ambiguity with blood tests as far as whether to test for IGF-1 or GH, timings of taking the blood sample after injection, one lab told me the blood sample must be frozen, another told me that IGF-1 degrades so quickly that the blood must be tested within 5hrs of being drawn (making a mockery of these postal tests), and the costs of these blood tests seem to vary ENORMOUSLY - I have been quoted everything from £34 to £195!!

I think I will bite the bullet and pay the £472 to get the vial tested - that way I will get a printed report telling me in black and white if it is GH or not.

----------


## Matt

> How did you go on?


I have to phone them on Monday to make an appointment which i thought a little strange. Even though they advertise it as their clinic its not, its just a local gp who will take the blood sample, you then have to post it to their lab in London...

And after reading Ns post above i think i'll see how he gets on then do the same...

----------


## Xtralarg

> OK I have found a place through one of XL's links that will test a vial for £472.
> 
> It's alot but I think it's the only way to be 100% sure as there seems to be a huge ambiguity with blood tests as far as whether to test for IGF-1 or GH, timings of taking the blood sample after injection, one lab told me the blood sample must be frozen, another told me that IGF-1 degrades so quickly that the blood must be tested within 5hrs of being drawn (making a mockery of these postal tests), and the costs of these blood tests seem to vary ENORMOUSLY - I have been quoted everything from £34 to £195!!
> 
> I think I will bite the bullet and pay the £472 to get the vial tested - that way I will get a printed report telling me in black and white if it is GH or not.


Worth every penny IMO.

----------


## NotSmall

> Worth every penny IMO.


Yeah - I am going to have to do it for my own peace of mind but it's kind of a lose-lose situation in a way - if it says that it is real GH then happy days but I've wasted £472 - if it says its not GH then I've wasted... a HELLUVAH lot more!!

----------


## OH REALLY

> Btw they are good though, they will even come to your home and test you there, but they have thousands of clinics all over the country, i have one almost next door....


hgh converts into igf in the liver.... so just go to the doctor and ask him to run a igf level and see if its elevated ... this is the test to see if children have growth hormone difesinces... so its the best bet.... also its expensive but a sure thing...

----------


## OH REALLY

http://www.labtestsonline.org/unders...mone/test.html

just a quick link

----------


## OH REALLY

there are also home test kits blood spotting on papper.... for less then 100$

http://www.johnleemd.com/store/prod_btest.html

its the last one on the bottom of the page called igf testing
Somatomedin C (IGF-1)

----------


## NotSmall

> there are also home test kits blood spotting on papper.... for less then 100$
> 
> http://www.johnleemd.com/store/prod_btest.html
> 
> its the last one on the bottom of the page called igf testing
> Somatomedin C (IGF-1)


I was told today that IGF-1 degrades so fast that the bood must be tested within 5hrs - can't see that happening if you mail the sample.

----------


## OH REALLY

it all depends on how the sample is collected and stored i work in a lab

----------


## NotSmall

> it all depends on how the sample is collected and stored i work in a lab


So what about that method will make the IGF-1 stable for longer?

----------


## marcus300

I think to be 100% sure what is inside your gh vial people need to get it lab analysed, then you will know if its fake,under dosed,anti-diuretic,AI's,igf or even HGH. Personally id feel better if its done this way but the blood test's would give a great indication on how our levels, which should be through the roof!!

----------


## NotSmall

> I think to be 100% sure what is inside your gh vial people need to get it lab analysed, then you will know if its fake,under dosed,anti-diuretic,AI's,igf or even HGH. Personally id feel better if its done this way but the blood test's would give a great *indication* on how our levels, which should be through the roof!!


I am growing more and more convinced that blood tests are just that - an *indication* and its possible that we MAY have jumped the gun a little here - I will pay to get a vial of riptropin properly analysed and then we will know for sure.

----------


## OH REALLY

> So what about that method will make the IGF-1 stable for longer?


give me a min im at work ill look it up

----------


## OH REALLY

ok my lab requires a critical frozen serum .05ml from an SST tube.... hope that helps..lol
that will keep it stable for 24 hours.... now im no chemist so i have no idea how the spot samples are run but you can email the company for that..

----------


## NotSmall

> ok my lab requires a critical frozen serum .05ml from an SST tube.... hope that helps..lol
> that will keep it stable for 24 hours.... now im no chemist so i have no idea how the spot samples are run but you can email the company for that..


See what I mean? - What kinda crappy lab do you work in if you need a frozen serum sample when these guys can do a test just from a spot of blood? lol

----------


## Matt

Its all mind blowing, i think the testing of your vial is best NS...

----------


## frawnz

A spot sample is multiple blood droplets from your finger placed onto a cardboard-like sheet with a bunch of circles on it. You then mail that sheet back to the lab for analysis. This is how IGF-1 blood spot tests work. 

If IGF-1 instantly degrades, then this type of test would be completely invalid. I'm not a scientist, but I have to presume that the IGF-1 degredation that is discussed refers to degredation with the active blood stream but that an IGF-1 test can still capture those levels so long as the blood is taken within X amount of time. 

So the first question is what exactly is meant by IGF-1 degredation (in the blood vs degredation of the actual sample)?

The second question is what is the exact time window we have to capture accurate IGF-1 levels?

----------


## NotSmall

> Its all mind blowing, i think the testing of your vial is best NS...


It's the only thing thats 100% certain to my mind

----------


## Fantomg

> I am growing more and more convinced that blood tests are just that - an *indication* and its possible that we MAY have jumped the gun a little here - I will pay to get a vial of riptropin properly analysed and then we will know for sure.


*rmacgurn 
*
He just posted recently on this very subject. I'm still looking for it. It might be in my thread about Chinese HGH and Blood Work.

He (rcmacgurn) has stated that he will most likely post some lab names that DO such testing as Mass Spectometry etc letting you know what subtances are in your bottle/sample. He has a medical background and his field of work includes this type of process. He has stated to me that it is VERY difficult to determine your HGH levels from IGF-1 or other HGH tests. He suggests you test inside 5 minutes of dosing if you are going to test. But to add to the repetative answer: Testing your product WILL be conclusive and this guy is about to possibly post where to get it done. Hang tight. 

My gut feeling regarding my gear is that I have the real deal, since )aside from the sides, I've dumped over 25lbs and feel amazing with my quads veining out and lower abs as well after the 2 1/2 month mark but I may have something additional in there with the actual volume of the substance being LARGER than Saizen. My yellow tops are 10iu each and Saizen is 24iu but smaller in volume. Also the sides I get are fairly extreme compared to some of the American pharm gear. 

We are nearly there - Come Monday, we may have the lab to do the test. I will lay my wallet out instantly even if it costs more than $400 as I've spent 20 times that inside a year on hgh. Sorry that it may not be an "ALL CONCLUSIVE" since it will be the Yellow Tops from China I am testing, but I WILL scan the test and attach it as soon as I receive it under a new thread titled something like: ACTUAL LAB TEST RESULTS OF CHINESE HGH BOTTLE

*I will have rmacgurn to thank for this as will many others if it's able to be done.*

----------


## marcus300

> *rmacgurn 
> *
> He just posted recently on this very subject. I'm still looking for it. It might be in my thread about Chinese HGH and Blood Work.
> 
> He (rcmacgurn) has stated that he will most likely post some lab names that DO such testing as Mass Spectometry etc letting you know what subtances are in your bottle/sample. He has a medical background and his field of work includes this type of process. He has stated to me that it is VERY difficult to determine your HGH levels from IGF-1 or other HGH tests. He suggests you test inside 5 minutes of dosing if you are going to test. But to add to the repetative answer: Testing your product WILL be conclusive and this guy is about to possibly post where to get it done. Hang tight. 
> 
> *My gut feeling regarding my gear is that I have the real deal, since )aside from the sides, I've dumped over 25lbs and feel amazing with my quads veining out and lower abs as well after the 2 1/2 month mark but I may have something additional in there with the actual volume of the substance being LARGER than Saizen. My yellow tops are 10iu each and Saizen is 24iu but smaller in volume. Also the sides I get are fairly extreme compared to some of the American pharm gear. 
> 
> We are nearly there - Come Monday, we may have the lab to do the test. I will lay my wallet out instantly even if it costs more than $400 as I've spent 20 times that inside a year on hgh. Sorry that it may not be an "ALL CONCLUSIVE" since it will be the Yellow Tops from China I am testing, but I WILL scan the test and attach it as soon as I receive it under a new thread titled something like: ACTUAL LAB TEST RESULTS OF CHINESE HGH BOTTLE*


At least you will know what your injecting if you get it tested, do you hold alot of water with your gh?

----------


## Fantomg

At least you will know what your injecting if you get it tested, do you hold alot of water with your gh? (posted by Marcus300)

No - I had about a 6-7lb gain of water/bloating in the beginning which completely subsided after appx 30 days. I'd definitely drop the GH about 2-3 weeks out from a show if I were doing one, but otherwise I'm pretty dry and vascular. Really pronounced BF drop after 2 1/2 months till now at appx 5 1/2 months. It's leveled off now (weight drop) but I feel better every day and this is the first time in years that I've been sleeping through the night. I used to wake at least 7-8 times/night, especially with tren hex when I'd labor breath and wake up soaked.

Is the sudden bloat, then disappearance of the bloat after 30 days condusive to HGH for you?

----------


## Xtralarg

> At least you will know what your injecting if you get it tested, do you hold alot of water with your gh? (posted by Marcus300)
> 
> No - I had about a 6-7lb gain of water/bloating in the beginning which completely subsided after appx 30 days. I'd definitely drop the GH about 2-3 weeks out from a show if I were doing one, but otherwise I'm pretty dry and vascular. Really pronounced BF drop after 2 1/2 months till now at appx 5 1/2 months. It's leveled off now (weight drop) but I feel better every day and this is the first time in years that I've been sleeping through the night. I used to wake at least 7-8 times/night, especially with tren hex when I'd labor breath and wake up soaked.
> 
> Is the sudden bloat, then disappearance of the bloat after 30 days condusive to HGH for you?


It sounds like you have good gh. Holding water for a little while then that subsides followed by a drop in BF, better sleep etc. I reckon youre good to go.

----------


## NotSmall

> *rmacgurn 
> *
> He just posted recently on this very subject. I'm still looking for it. It might be in my thread about Chinese HGH and Blood Work.
> 
> He (rcmacgurn) has stated that he will most likely post some lab names that DO such testing as Mass Spectometry etc letting you know what subtances are in your bottle/sample. He has a medical background and his field of work includes this type of process. He has stated to me that it is VERY difficult to determine your HGH levels from IGF-1 or other HGH tests. He suggests you test inside 5 minutes of dosing if you are going to test. But to add to the repetative answer: Testing your product WILL be conclusive and this guy is about to possibly post where to get it done. Hang tight. 
> 
> My gut feeling regarding my gear is that I have the real deal, since )aside from the sides, I've dumped over 25lbs and feel amazing with my quads veining out and lower abs as well after the 2 1/2 month mark but I may have something additional in there with the actual volume of the substance being LARGER than Saizen. My yellow tops are 10iu each and Saizen is 24iu but smaller in volume. Also the sides I get are fairly extreme compared to some of the American pharm gear. 
> 
> We are nearly there - Come Monday, we may have the lab to do the test. I will lay my wallet out instantly even if it costs more than $400 as I've spent 20 times that inside a year on hgh. Sorry that it may not be an "ALL CONCLUSIVE" since it will be the Yellow Tops from China I am testing, but I WILL scan the test and attach it as soon as I receive it under a new thread titled something like: ACTUAL LAB TEST RESULTS OF CHINESE HGH BOTTLE
> ...


Thanks bud but I've already located a forensic lab over here that will test a vial for me, it's gonna cost me £472 which is a chunk of cash but like you say - nothing compared to what I'm spending on (what I hope is) GH.

----------


## Fantomg

> Thanks bud but I've already located a forensic lab over here that will test a vial for me, it's gonna cost me £472 which is a chunk of cash but like you say - nothing compared to what I'm spending on (what I hope is) GH.


Care to share that lab name? At the very least, let us know what it comes back as. This could be the start of some amazing factual evidence. These posts certainly raise the hairs on those out there knowingly selling counterfeits. It is possible we may have trouble locating one here in the U.S. that will cooperate due to the fact that it is a controlled substance in spite of all efforts. My stuff shipped from China. Not a big deal to ship to U.K. for testing. However, that comes to $715 USD right now. Ouch. Have family in Manchester, Birmingham suburbs, and London. Could order directly to my cousin from China and have him walk it in depending how many kilometers I'd be asking him to drive. He enjoys yellow tops as well and might be coerced if I bought him a kit.

----------


## NotSmall

> Care to share that lab name? It is possible we may have trouble locating one here in the U.S. that will cooperate due to the fact that it is a controlled substance in spite of all efforts. My stuff shipped from China. Not a big deal to ship to U.K. for testing. However, that comes to $715 USD right now. Ouch. Have family in Manchester, Birmingham suburbs, and London. Could order directly to my cousin from China and have him walk it in. He enjoys yellow tops as well.


Yeah once I get the test done I will be able to share the lab name and you will be able to get it done cheaper than me!  :Frown: 

Basically I phoned one of the places over here that does blood tests and asked them where I could get a vial tested, they have outsourced it to a forensics lab but they won't tell me who because they are putting their margin on it - when I asked if they could do it any cheaper the woman said "No because we're paying nearly £400 for it ourselves"

Anyway - once I have paid them the £472 over the phone by card she is going to tell me the name and address of the lab to send it to so once ol' NotSmall has bitten the bullet and paid £472 you boys should be able to go direct and get it for under £400. (And I'm really pleased for you... cunts lol)

----------


## Xtralarg

> Yeah once I get the test done I will be able to share the lab name and you will be able to get it done cheaper than me! 
> 
> Basically I phoned one of the places over here that does blood tests and asked them where I could get a vial tested, they have outsourced it to a forensics lab but they won't tell me who because they are putting their margin on it - when I asked if they could do it any cheaper the woman said "No because we're paying nearly £400 for it ourselves"
> 
> Anyway - once I have paid them the £472 over the phone by card she is going to tell me the name and address of the lab to send it to so once ol' NotSmall has bitten the bullet and paid £472 you boys should be able to go direct and get it for under £400. (And I'm really pleased for you... cunts lol)


Its fingers crossed time!

----------


## Matt

> Yeah once I get the test done I will be able to share the lab name and you will be able to get it done cheaper than me! 
> 
> Basically I phoned one of the places over here that does blood tests and asked them where I could get a vial tested, they have outsourced it to a forensics lab but they won't tell me who because they are putting their margin on it - when I asked if they could do it any cheaper the woman said "No because we're paying nearly £400 for it ourselves"
> 
> Anyway - once I have paid them the £472 over the phone by card she is going to tell me the name and address of the lab to send it to so once ol' NotSmall has bitten the bullet and paid £472 you boys should be able to go direct and get it for under £400. (And I'm really pleased for you... cunts lol)


Your doing all a great service bro..

----------


## Fantomg

> Yeah once I get the test done I will be able to share the lab name and you will be able to get it done cheaper than me! 
> 
> Basically I phoned one of the places over here that does blood tests and asked them where I could get a vial tested, they have outsourced it to a forensics lab but they won't tell me who because they are putting their margin on it - when I asked if they could do it any cheaper the woman said "No because we're paying nearly £400 for it ourselves"
> 
> Anyway - once I have paid them the £472 over the phone by card she is going to tell me the name and address of the lab to send it to so once ol' NotSmall has bitten the bullet and paid £472 you boys should be able to go direct and get it for under £400. (And I'm really pleased for you... cunts lol)


Only for those living in the U.K. Our dollar is much weaker than your pound and will actually cost us much more. $715. We lose almost half our dollar once it's converted to your denomination. I think you're the first to do this and possibly the first to post results. Thanks for your efforts. You'll be helping yourself rest at ease (hopefully) and a lot of others who's source may be the same. This is what a good forum is all about.

----------


## NotSmall

> Only for those living in the U.K. Our dollar is much weaker than your pound and will actually cost us much more. $715. We lose almost half our dollar once it's converted to your denomination. I think you're the first to do this and possibly the first to post results. Thanks for your efforts. You'll be helping yourself rest at ease (hopefully) and a lot of others who's source may be the same. This is what a good forum is all about.


There must be labs in the US that can do it but I suppose you have the extra complication of the legality of it.

The $ is alot stronger against the £ than it usually is so it could be worse!

All I am waiting on is for the woman to call me back and tell me exactly what test the lab is going to run, initially when I asked she said "I don't know but they are a fully licensed forensic laboratory and they said they can test it and tell you categorically whether it is growth hormone or not" so I said "Well I don't think its unreasonable if I'm spending £472 to want to know exactly what test is being run" and she relented and said she would call the lab and call me back - it was nearly the end of the day by this point so I would think I will hear on monday - I then just want to check with a few knowledgeable boys that such a test is definitive and unquestionable and if so I will go ahead.

----------


## Fantomg

> There must be labs in the US that can do it but I suppose you have the extra complication of the legality of it.
> 
> The $ is alot stronger against the £ than it usually is so it could be worse!
> 
> All I am waiting on is for the woman to call me back and tell me exactly what test the lab is going to run, initially when I asked she said "I don't know but they are a fully licensed forensic laboratory and they said they can test it and tell you categorically whether it is growth hormone or not" so I said "Well I don't think its unreasonable if I'm spending £472 to want to know exactly what test is being run" and she relented and said she would call the lab and call me back - it was nearly the end of the day by this point so I would think I will hear on monday - I then just want to check with a few knowledgeable boys that such a test is definitive and unquestionable and if so I will go ahead.


*Here is an excerpt from a post by "RMACGURN" that may help regarding exactly what to ask for and expect*:
He was answering one of my posts where I was mentioning that I intend to do bloodwork and asking "which" test would be the most conclusive of confirming the legitimacy of the product I have/use.


_"I prefer to have an analytical lab test the product using liquid chromatography or mass spectrometry tell me ingredients and amounts. this will identify all compound, peptides, etc in the powder. Kiils two birds with one stone. no matter where you are there will be a lab as they are required for pharmacies that compound and for new drug approval for manufacturing. much simpler also then all the expensive blood tests. be patient i think we will have a location or two in a day or so at reasonable prices".
_

It seems to me (from RMACGURN'S posting above) that you may want to ask them if they perform *Liquid Chromatography* or *Mass Spectrometry* tests. ( I may be mistaken, but I believe they separate all substances in your compound by molecular weight and then I.D. each substance. This would be much better than just telling you if you have HGH or not because that would not tell you how pure, if there were any other substances, or the potency.

BTW - RMACGURN asked that if I found his posts informational/helpful, if I wouldn't mind upping his rating by clicking on the color button in the upper right corner of his posts. I did so right away. This guy is responsible for bringing to light this type of conclusive testing and furthered our endeavor greatly. (The whole goal of this and other posts and a REAL concern with tons of members is to find out if we've spent our personal hard earned money on legitimate product). Ultimately if this proves successful (Liquid Chromatography and Mass Spectrometry testing any product we should so question) it could mean the BEGINNING OF THE END of the countless counterfeiters out there. What a revelation?!

----------


## NotSmall

> Here is an excerpt from a post by rnmacnurn that may help regarding exactly what to ask for and expect:
> 
> _I prefer to have an analytical lab test the product using liquid chromatography or mass spectrometry tell me ingredients and amounts. this will identify all compound, peptides, etc in the powder. Kiils two birds with one stone. no matter where you are there will be a lab as they are required for pharmacies that compound and for new drug approval for manufacturing. much simpler also then all the expensive blood tests. be patient i think we will have a location or two in a day or so at reasonable prices.
> _


Yeah I spoke to one guy at a lab today who TOTALLY blew my mind telling me how he would test the sample and I think the above is what he was talking about - if so he said it would take quite some time to complete and the cost was close to £2k!

My understanding is that the test they are going to run will only reveal if it is growth hormone or not, as opposed to giving us a read out of every little trace compound in there - I will no more when I hear back from them on monday though.

----------


## Fantomg

> Yeah I spoke to one guy at a lab today who TOTALLY blew my mind telling me how he would test the sample and I think the above is what he was talking about - if so he said it would take quite some time to complete and the cost was close to £2k!
> 
> My understanding is that the test they are going to run will only reveal if it is growth hormone or not, as opposed to giving us a read out of every little trace compound in there - I will no more when I hear back from them on monday though.


Cool - Thanks for your efforts. I will check here after Monday (I may have heard from rmacgurn by then too. He believes that in the U.S. these tests will be cheaper than running the blood work. From the sound of your discoveries, we may find otherwise. Even so, if it's costly, I bet I can round up enough here using the same thing, to pitch in and get it done. Finding out that I have good clean stuff will enable me to spend a lot of money from this point onward.

----------


## P3rf3ctionist

NS, before committing yourself to paying the £472 or so to get a vial tested did you explore the option of regular blood tests conducted via your general practitioner?

----------


## Fantomg

> NS, before committing yourself to paying the £472 or so to get a vial tested did you explore the option of regular blood tests conducted via your general practitioner?


If you've read the entire thread, we've been all through this and discussed this in detail. It's also covered in "Chinese HGH and Blood Tests" if you want to read. There are very specific reasons for choices between IGF-1 Tests HGH tests IGF-2 multiple time testing etc and Testing the actual product itself. Just to mention one out of many reasons, HGH has been faked with IGF-1. IGF-1 is the test Doctors run to determine or attempt to determine growth hormone levels. This thread is in effort to prove not only the legitimacy but the efficacy and/or potency of a product that has thousands spending thousands and that which invites the obvious....many, if not thousands of counterfeiters globally. If it were a simple blood test that would provide the answer here, and saving money was on the agenda, we'd not pay a doc the extra fees to run tests. We would go straight to the lab (as many do) and cut out the middle man and his fees. Not trying to haze your "more than welcomed comments", just the common thread in this long winded thread is very apparent if ya read chronologically a-z. And it's a one that has brought "Not Small" close to quite possibly being the first (that I know of) to prove/disprove his product(s).

----------


## Mr.Rose

> Yeah I spoke to one guy at a lab today who TOTALLY blew my mind telling me how he would test the sample and I think the above is what he was talking about - if so he said it would take quite some time to complete and the cost was close to £2k!
> 
> My understanding is that the test they are going to run will only reveal if it is growth hormone or not, as opposed to giving us a read out of every little trace compound in there - I will no more when I hear back from them on monday though.


That's absurd!

£2000 for a simple chromatography run. This would not take them more than 1 hour and £20 to complete. This is a total rip off NotSmall.

Like i stated in my other thread, i test all my AAS purchases at my lab with Flash Column chromatography and Thin Layer chromatography at no cost. I have no experience, nor do i have an access card to the part of my lab with the mass spectrometry units, but i am running it by a few of my colleges, and they are telling me there should be a much simpler method. I will get back to you guys.

----------


## Xtralarg

> That's absurd!
> 
> £2000 for a simple chromatography run. This would not take them more than 1 hour and £20 to complete. This is a total rip off NotSmall.
> 
> Like i stated in my other thread, i test all my AAS purchases at my lab with Flash Column chromatography and Thin Layer chromatography at no cost. I have no experience, nor do i have an access card to the part of my lab with the mass spectrometry units, but i am running it by a few of my colleges, and they are telling me there should be a much simpler method. I will get back to you guys.


Thanks for looking into this for us.

----------


## Mr.Rose

Guys do yourself a favor and listen to rnmacnurn and find yourself an analytical laboratory in your local area. They should have no problem testing your items. Blood test will not determine nothing.

----------


## Mr.Rose

> Thanks for looking into this for us.


No problem. Lets see what my colleges have to say, they are checking over a few methods for me.

----------


## NotSmall

> That's absurd!
> 
> £2000 for a simple chromatography run. This would not take them more than 1 hour and £20 to complete. This is a total rip off NotSmall.


Then I was mistaken and that is not the test he was describing - don't worry though -I'm not going with them anyway.

----------


## NotSmall

> Guys do yourself a favor and listen to rnmacnurn and find yourself an analytical laboratory in your local area. They should have no problem testing your items. *Blood test will not determine nothing*.


This is what I have started to suspect - if my riptropin comes back tested positive as GH then some people are going to have some humble pie to eat...

----------


## Mr.Rose

> This is what I have started to suspect - if my riptropin comes back tested positive as GH then some people are going to have some humble pie to eat...


As in blood tests? What tests did you order? Remember GH pulsates in your body through the day, and blood plasma levels change quite rapidly, but there should be a massive difference from real rhGH injections to IGF-1 injections.

I will gladly eat all the pie you throw my way... low fat offcourse.  :Smilie:

----------


## NotSmall

> As in blood tests? What tests did you order? Remember GH pulsates in your body through the day, and blood plasma levels change quite rapidly, but there should be a massive difference from real rhGH injections to IGF-1 injections.
> 
> I will gladly eat all the pie you throw my way... low fat offcourse.


You haven't read the thread my good man have you? lol

I have found a forensic lab that will test the vial for £472 - I am waiting to hear back on monday as to exactly what the test is that they will run and so long as the more knowledgeable bros all agree that such a test is definitive and unquestionable (your opinion would be most welcome) I will proceed.

----------


## Mr.Rose

> You haven't read the thread my good man have you? lol
> 
> I have found a forensic lab that will test the vial for £472 - I am waiting to hear back on monday as to exactly what the test is that they will run and so long as the more knowledgeable bros all agree that such a test is definitive and unquestionable (your opinion would be most welcome) I will proceed.


I have actually, but i think i got confused, because a few posts ago i saw you say you weren't getting the test anymore, but now I'm assuming your talking about the mass spectrometry for $2000. 

When you get told what test they will do, please post it up before proceeding.

 :Smilie:

----------


## Mr.Rose

Also NotSmall do yourself a favor and contact some analytical laboratories in your local areas and see what fee they will charge. It may be a lot cheaper. Plus its good to have a range of options rather than kicking yourself now for spending 500 pounds when you could of got it for cheaper.

Unfortunately i cannot do that in my local area, without approval from a licensed laboratory, aka my university, but they will not sign off on it. Not to mention that it not much of use for me because i am too young for GH use.

----------


## Mr.Rose

Please read this amazing article, it explains a patent, specifically formulated to test the purity and biological activity of rhGH.

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/57...scription.html

"Additionally, the wrong choice of manufacturing conditions or formulation may lead to *improperly folded polypeptide chains which are biologically inactive.* Hence, further methodologies capable of analysis of the protein conformation are needed."

^^ This would be our greatest fear as we know the conditions of some labs in china are not legislated and inspected like those are in other countries with stricter laws. So basicly the company could be making REAL hGH, but due to poor conditions it is biologically inactive.

"currently, the analysis of biopharmaceuticals relies heavily on the use of sophisticated methods for the demonstration of the structural identity, homogeneity and purity of the products. These methods include amino acid and carbohydrate analysis, N- and C-terminal sequence analysis, spectroscopic (UV, CD, ORD) analysis, peptide mapping, electrophoresis, chromatographic purity profile methods, potency/activity assays, etc. It must be emphasized that no one method is considered to be sufficient in itself, and that multiple methods are necessary to completely characterize and/or control such products."

^^ Those above are the current methods to test purity of protein-based recombinant technology creations.

----------


## Mr.Rose

I'm just thinking out loud here, but if someone with more biological expertiese like MuscleScience can chime in, wouldnt the use of real hGH promote an increase in anti-hGH antibodies? So if you get a test of anti-hGH antibodies, and they where high, would this not be an indication of real hGH? But this may need to be tested with a HPAC (high-performance affinity chromatography) analytical analysis. But if you can find a lab to do this, it should be much much cheaper than anything else. Considering that most of you have been using your GH for over 6 months, this may actually work. There is no way you can inject an exogenous protein body without causing an immune response.

----------


## NotSmall

> I have actually, but i think i got confused, because a few posts ago i saw you say you weren't getting the test anymore, but now I'm assuming your talking about the mass spectrometry for $2000. 
> 
> *When you get told what test they will do, please post it up before proceeding.*


Yeah I definitely will.





> Also NotSmall do yourself a favor and contact some analytical laboratories in your local areas and see what fee they will charge. It may be a lot cheaper. Plus its good to have a range of options rather than kicking yourself now for spending 500 pounds when you could of got it for cheaper.
> 
> Unfortunately i cannot do that in my local area, without approval from a licensed laboratory, aka my university, but they will not sign off on it. Not to mention that it not much of use for me because i am too young for GH use.


I called about 8 yesterday, some wouldn't do it and others said that because they are not set up to do it the set up costs would make it prohibitively expensive.

I know the £472 seems alot but the cost of a blood test for GH from the only place that sounded like they knew what they were talking about was £195 and they said to really get a good measure I would need to do it twice!

If the test they come back to me with is a recognised and credible one then that is what I will do - anyone who wants to use the same lab thereafter will be able to get it done under £400.

----------


## NotSmall

> Please read this amazing article, it explains a patent, specifically formulated to test the purity and biological activity of rhGH.
> 
> http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/57...scription.html
> 
> "*Additionally, the wrong choice of manufacturing conditions or formulation may lead to improperly folded polypeptide chains which are biologically inactive. Hence, further methodologies capable of analysis of the protein conformation are needed."
> 
> ^^ This would be our greatest fear as we know the conditions of some labs in china are not legislated and inspected like those are in other countries with stricter laws. So basicly the company could be making REAL hGH, but due to poor conditions it is biologically inactive.*
> 
> "currently, the analysis of biopharmaceuticals relies heavily on the use of sophisticated methods for the demonstration of the structural identity, homogeneity and purity of the products. These methods include amino acid and carbohydrate analysis, N- and C-terminal sequence analysis, spectroscopic (UV, CD, ORD) analysis, peptide mapping, electrophoresis, chromatographic purity profile methods, potency/activity assays, etc. It must be emphasized that no one method is considered to be sufficient in itself, and that multiple methods are necessary to completely characterize and/or control such products."
> ...


I really wish I never read that! lol

----------


## Xtralarg

> Please read this amazing article, it explains a patent, specifically formulated to test the purity and biological activity of rhGH.
> 
> http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/57...scription.html
> 
> "Additionally, the wrong choice of manufacturing conditions or formulation may lead to *improperly folded polypeptide chains which are biologically inactive.* Hence, further methodologies capable of analysis of the protein conformation are needed."
> 
> ^^ *This would be our greatest fear as we know the conditions of some labs in china are not legislated and inspected like those are in other countries with stricter laws. So basicly the company could be making REAL hGH, but due to poor conditions it is biologically inactive.*
> "currently, the analysis of biopharmaceuticals relies heavily on the use of sophisticated methods for the demonstration of the structural identity, homogeneity and purity of the products. These methods include amino acid and carbohydrate analysis, N- and C-terminal sequence analysis, spectroscopic (UV, CD, ORD) analysis, peptide mapping, electrophoresis, chromatographic purity profile methods, potency/activity assays, etc. It must be emphasized that no one method is considered to be sufficient in itself, and that multiple methods are necessary to completely characterize and/or control such products."
> 
> ^^ Those above are the current methods to test purity of protein-based recombinant technology creations.


This is getting worse, has anyone got any good news?

----------


## JuliusPleaser

as i stated before... maybe a truck load of gh was stuck in traffic on a 100 degree weather in china..

who knows whats going on... ive had some gh come to me and it look liked it when thru a hurricane with the powder everywhere (still intacted but on top the vial)...

i can't wait to get to the bottom of this but until then...  :Microwave2: :

----------


## Fantomg

Mr Rose - Thank you for your input here. And thank you for the much needed doubt you've created again, I can't help but rib you! LOL. Each time it seems we've got the answer... the next curve ball comes. I've read the article/link you posted (patentstorm.us) I now grit my teeth because I have been a subscriber to chromatography and mass spectrometry. However, some may be satisfied enough if their substance ID's as GH? And also if we do or do not find additional fillers. What if you run a LC or MS test and the answer is YES - growth hormone is what your bottle contains and no other trace elements found hopefully- or if so, very little. Even if we don't find out the potency, I've pretty much ascertained that I have HGH and may move forward and continue my therapy and purchasing with confidence from the supplier I currently buy from.

Rmacgurn has PM'd me that he may have answers by this Monday. The company he works for supplies mult type of HGH and more recently carried product from Asian sources. I believe They/he intends to have tests conducted, ie; Liquid Chromatography and Mass Spectrometry. 
If testing of these type does end up being cheap (I guess you working speaking of HPAC as far as being cheap Mr. Rose?) - I will also lay may wallet down for more than one (if after taking suggestions it is communicated to me that there is good reason to). 

Again, I said in the past that I have Yellow Tops purchased form China so I'd be getting answers only for this kind and this batch. I would also let those know where I've ordered and appx when without breaking lab posting rules, or course.
Thanks again NotSmall for committing to doing this. You're obviously not just helping yourself/own endeavors if ya do this. You'll open a lot of eyes. But jeeese, what the hell type of test to do?!?! Maybe Mr Rose ribbed MuscleScience enough to put his 2 cents in.

----------


## FCVtec

> You say you know that your Hyge's are legit and I am not doubting you..but what is funny is that a sponsor on another forum is saying that the H y g e t r o p i n.com.cn site that is on your box in your pic is a fake site selling fake GH...but yet he is selling fake GH.
> 
> Here is the link to that thread...
> http://chemicalmass.com/showthread.php?t=4499
> 
> That sponsor has turned out to be a scam as Frawnz and I and other members can vouch for because we attained Riptropin from that sponsor and it's bunk. There are numerous locked down threads in there GH,IGF forums about it on there in recent days.
> 
> Everyone stay away from Riptropin because it's all junk
> 
> ...


I have read the link you posted and everything, I am concerned now..... Can anyone confirm this??? I am going up in dose and see if I get sides, I had numb hands and little cts on the kefei's but they went away once I got used to it and once I switched I felt no changes. I think I am going to up my dose and get my IGF levels tested. 

If they are faking real quality looking packages like my hyge then I might as well give up on this crap all together. It's even vacuum sealed.... Again, can anyone confirm this information about hyges?

----------


## AndriodLee

> I have read the link you posted and everything, I am concerned now..... Can anyone confirm this??? I am going up in dose and see if I get sides, I had numb hands and little cts on the kefei's but they went away once I got used to it and once I switched I felt no changes. I think I am going to up my dose and get my IGF levels tested. 
> 
> If they are faking real quality looking packages like my hyge then I might as well give up on this crap all together. It's even vacuum sealed.... Again, can anyone confirm this information about hyges?


I noticed your hyges picture, and I think you might have the pinwheel tops. This thread might help you out. I think Slide ended up getting in touch with the hyge manufacturer, and they sent him some new boxes. Read this...

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ighlight=hyges

----------


## NotSmall

> I have read the link you posted and everything, I am concerned now..... Can anyone confirm this??? I am going up in dose and see if I get sides, I had numb hands and little cts on the kefei's but they went away once I got used to it and once I switched I felt no changes. I think I am going to up my dose and get my IGF levels tested. 
> 
> If they are faking real quality looking packages like my hyge then I might as well give up on this crap all together. It's even vacuum sealed.... Again, can anyone confirm this information about hyges?


Don't panic just yet - as far as I am concerned nothing is confirmed.

----------


## BJJ

I just finished to read this thread throughout.
Another good idea XL.

I was thinking, can some of you guys instead of just guessing, in the mean while we help each other to find an affordable lab to analyze the drugs, go checking your somatotropin and somatomedin levels after the injection?

Otherwise we will keep talking without sureness.
My data is too few to be kept into account for everyone.

----------


## BJJ

Fot those who have not seen this post in the other thread and are interested, it is really that easy and can give a good indication if the HGH is real or fake and/or underdosed.

Looking at my HGH and IGF-1 values, there is a difference among the three powders I used so far.

Basically, this is what I noticed:

IGF-1: *135* ng/ml [96 - 424]______________________*159*__________________*238*__________________________________________________ _______*461*
HGH: *0,3* ng/ml [0,0 - 10]_____________________________________________*11,1*____________________________________*10,5*_________________*22,2*

__________________________________________________ ________________*EuroHormones*
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______*Generic Green Tops*
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________*Generic Yellow Tops****

Injection time: 05:30 am (all three types)
Days on the same drug before testing: 7 (all three types)
Blood work time: 08:00 am (all three types)
Amount injected: 4 iu (eurohormones/green tops) - 5 iu (yellow tops)
Injection site: umbilical (eurohormones) - oblique (green/yellow tops)
Injection type: sub-q (all three types)

So, it seems that the best result was achieved by the yellow tops either in terms of somatotropin and somatomedin, even though I could not check the IGF-1 the second time.

----------


## Xtralarg

What we need to be careful about doing here is condemning a particular brand, I have already mentioned this in another thread but I will repeat myself here.

As we know there is a ton of HGH leaving the shores of China every single day and because of the number of counterfeiters we simply cant condemn a brand because what you have may not be an original/genuine product? I know this is difficult to accept because we all want to believe that our source is 100% but in my experience nobody from China is 100%.

Lets all keep working on this together and Im sure we will get to the bottom of it.

----------


## FCVtec

I am going to order my bloodwork today and we'll find out the truth about the pinwheels... From what i've read they are probably gonna turn out to be fake but I am gonna make sure.

----------


## BJJ

> I am going to order my bloodwork today and we'll find out the truth about the pinwheels... From what i've read they are probably gonna turn out to be fake but I am gonna make sure.


Will you check for HGH and IGF-1?

----------


## Xtralarg

> I am going to order my bloodwork today and we'll find out the truth about the pinwheels... From what i've read they are probably gonna turn out to be fake but I am gonna make sure.


I think its fairly common knowledge that the pin whels are not genuine hyge's, whether they still contain some hgh or not is another matter.

----------


## NotSmall

OK - Haz PM'd me the details of the lab that XL passed him that he then emailed and found that they will test a vial and I just phoned them, they can offer 2 different tests to check a vial of rHGH.

1) HPLC High Performance Liquid Chromatography
This will reveal whether or not the vial contains rHGH and how much is in the vial HOWEVER it will not confirm that the rHGH is intact or biologically active (as per the info that Mr Rose contributed)
This test would cost $500

2) LCMS Liquid Chromatography Mass Spectometry
This test not only reveals whether the vial contains rHGH and how much but also tells whether or not the rHGH is biologically active via peptide sequencing analysis.
The guy I spoke to was not 100% sure what the cost would be but guesstimated about double that of the HPLC - he is going to find out for definite and email me.

Clearly No2 is the test we want providing that it is not prohibitively expensive.

The UK based company I have been speaking to left me a message today saying they are still waiting to hear back from the lab as to which method they would be using.

I love the way we are working as a team here - our knowledge on testing GH is growing at a geometric rate!

----------


## AndriodLee

Speaking of blood work. I'm only on my second week of nd blue tops. Would it be better if I waited 2 more weeks to draw my blood work, or go ahead and it drawn us as soon as possible. I plan on ordering an Igf1, and and hgh test.

----------


## Hazard

> OK - Haz PM'd me the details of the lab that XL passed him that he then emailed and found that they will test a vial and I just phoned them, they can offer 2 different tests to check a vial of rHGH.
> 
> 1) HPLC High Performance Liquid Chromatography
> This will reveal whether or not the vial contains rHGH and how much is in the vial HOWEVER it will not confirm that the rHGH is intact or biologically active (as per the info that Mr Rose contributed)
> This test would cost $500
> 
> 2) LCMS Liquid Chromatography Mass Spectometry
> This test not only reveals whether the vial contains rHGH and how much but also tells whether or not the rHGH is biologically active via peptide sequencing analysis.
> The guy I spoke to was not 100% sure what the cost would be but guesstimated about double that of the HPLC - he is going to find out for definite and email me.
> ...


It sucks that it's gotta be so expensive..... I can't just shell out $500+ but then again..... why pay for bogus HGH.....

~Haz~

----------


## BJJ

> OK - Haz PM'd me the details of the lab that XL passed him that he then emailed and found that they will test a vial and I just phoned them, they can offer 2 different tests to check a vial of rHGH.
> 
> 1) HPLC High Performance Liquid Chromatography
> This will reveal whether or not the vial contains rHGH and how much is in the vial HOWEVER it will not confirm that the rHGH is intact or biologically active (as per the info that Mr Rose contributed)
> This test would cost $500
> 
> 2) LCMS Liquid Chromatography Mass Spectometry
> This test not only reveals whether the vial contains rHGH and how much but also tells whether or not the rHGH is biologically active via peptide sequencing analysis.
> The guy I spoke to was not 100% sure what the cost would be but guesstimated about double that of the HPLC - he is going to find out for definite and email me.
> ...


Crazy, it is even more expensive than in Italy!!!

----------


## BJJ

> Speaking of blood work. I'm only on my second week of nd blue tops. Would it be better if I waited 2 more weeks to draw my blood work, or go ahead and it drawn us as soon as possible. I plan on ordering an Igf1, and and hgh test.


You do not need to wait any longer, just get a sub-q injection early in the morning and get your BW 2/3 hours after that on an empty stomach.

----------


## NotSmall

> It sucks that it's gotta be so expensive..... I can't just shell out $500+ but then again..... why pay for bogus HGH.....
> 
> ~Haz~


It's a bit of a nightmare eh? - I think the key in future would be for a group of us to throw in for the test before all making a bulk order.

I'm in the situation though where I've got 1400ius sat in my fridge and I am not overkeen to keep injecting myself with something if it is not what it should be - getting it tested is still a kinda lose-lose situation though cos say I spend £472 and it reveals the GH is fake then I have just added to the money I have wasted, OR it comes back that the GH is real and I've just wasted £472 because we all got ourselves in a flap over nothing!

I am actually increasingly convinced that my riptropin is real, I have spoken to the guy I got it from and I am not going to say WHY on the board just yet but what he had to say was fairly convincing to me.

----------


## BJJ

> It's a bit of a nightmare eh? - I think the key in future would be for a group of us to throw in for the test before all making a bulk order.
> 
> I'm in the situation though where I've got 1400ius sat in my fridge and I am not overkeen to keep injecting myself with something if it is not what it should be - getting it tested is still a kinda lose-lose situation though cos say I spend £472 and it reveals the GH is fake then I have just added to the money I have wasted, OR it comes back that the GH is real and I've just wasted £472 because we all got ourselves in a flap over nothing!
> 
> I am actually increasingly convinced that my riptropin is real, I have spoken to the guy I got it from and I am not going to say WHY on the board just yet but what he had to say was fairly convincing to me.


You could still simply get a BW lol

----------


## NotSmall

> You could still simply get a BW lol


If that were definitive then the olympic commission would have a field day!

----------


## Xtralarg

I have spoken a great length with a scientist who works at an analytical lab today and this is the information I have.
She tells me that the tests that would have to be carried out are extremely expensive, in order to find out exactly what is contained in a vial then a full characterisation analysis must be carried out, this would tell us about every substance contained in the vial but would cost thousands of pounds/dollars. She says that she could test the molecular weight and this would give an indication if the substance found had the same molecular weight as rHGH (22,124 Daltons) but with other substances sharing the same molecular weight then the result would not be conclusive and that further tests would need to be done to clarify the findings.
She went on to talk about tests which would determine if the rHGH was active or not but again this would cost more money.

I am slowly coming to the conclusion that in order to find out exactly what we are injecting and what amount is in each vial is going to cost thousands. 
What concerns me more than anything isn’t if there is rHGH in these vials it’s what else is in there that worries me and the possible long term health issues. Let’s not forget the capabilities of these scientists in China, here in the UK we are being bombarded with imitation street drugs which have the same effect but for one tenth of the price, people who have taken these substances have lost their lives and our government are trying to stay one step ahead by banning them as soon as they are introduced.

*Let’s not forget what rHGH SHOULD do to you.*

Ok at first there may be a little bloat but that should soon subside, this should be followed by a steady loss of BF and nice lean muscle gains, after 6 months you should be super lean and ‘shrink wrapped’ in your skin. Instead what is happening is that people are experiencing bloat for months and months, the scales are going the wrong way  :Frown: ...lets not forget these simple facts! Ok I know that if you’re taking AAS alongside rHGH then the results can be masked and you can blame the constant bloat on the gear but believe me if you have real rHGH after 6 months you WILL be lean and muscular.

I am speaking from experience here - years ago I had real pharm grade rHGH and it changed my physique, I lost massive ammounts of BF and was left with quality lean muscle I did not hold water for months and months. 

This makes me think that the rHGH we get from China may well contain some rHGH but what else is in that vial that is making people hold water for so long?

We need to find out!

----------


## BJJ

> If that were definitive then the olympic commission would have a field day!


Sorry I do not understand.

----------


## Fantomg

I JUST WENT BACK AND POSTED THIS IN CAPS - SORRY IF YOU'VE SAID WHAT I JUST SAID. I WROTE SO FRIGGIN LONG AS USUAL THAT YOU GUYS HAVE POSTED 4-5 MORE BEFORE I FINISHED, LOL. I WILL NOW LIMIT MY POSTS GREATLY FROM THIS POINT ONWARD.




> Speaking of blood work. I'm only on my second week of nd blue tops. Would it be better if I waited 2 more weeks to draw my blood work, or go ahead and it drawn us as soon as possible. I plan on ordering an Igf1, and and hgh test.


I think *NotSmall* has about the* ONLY* sure fire method in motion. I've mentioned these two tests many times from researching them and speaking to rnmacgrun. The liquid chromatography and mass spectrometry. Then Mr. Rose posted yet another test that threw a curve ball in the pic. 

There are some things to consider *"AndroidLee" -* It has been mentioned that there is HGH commonly being "faked" with IGF-1 and quite possibly additional filler(s) that cause sides similar to hgh. I would imagine if you ran an IGF-1 blood test, it WOULD read high if you have a fake containing IGF-1

However, if you blood test, will you:
A: test inside 10-60 minutes of pinning (the ranges I've seen from posts)
B: Will you pin intramuscular that day (as many say is necessary for testing)
C: Do you have a BASELINE IGF-1 level (as to compare your results with)

I've viewed other results like the following (who DID have baseline levels checked before running the IGF-1 test "under the influence"
Subject 1: Baseline 284 - IGF-1 
after pinning 4iu (appx 30 minutes prior) results: 398

Subject 2: Baseline 118 
I think he tested hours later but results from 2iu showed a raise to only 252 (These results are from my memory and could be off + or - a very small amount. I will have to call my friends again to verify.

These guys were using Yellow Tops bought with me through China.

I don't have a baseline as I didn't know to test my IGF-1 before using HGH. So I wouldn't know how much of an increase there was. But sitting at over 400ng/ml on 4iu in my early 40's and going from 258lbs to 230ish starting after 2 1/2 months on (diet stayed the same) makes me believe somewhat that I've got the real deal. 

All in all. After reading till my eyes go blurry (as yours will if you read all my friggin blabbing) and conversing with some folk in the med field, I believe it is VERY difficult to draw conclusions from blood work as there seem to be so many variables. If I sound contradictory within my OWN long post, my apologies as it's just the UNCERTAINTIES. Our HGH levels seem to be all over the map during a 24hr period anyway. IGF-1 is produced by the liver as a bi-product of HGH. There are definitely other factors that change these levels. 

And WHAT IS THE HGH TEST that is separate of IGF-1 Testing? What is that measuring? Why hasn't everyone used that instead of IGF-1 testing? Why has the 2 labs I've asked about the actual HGH TEST not been able to tell me what the difference was from that to the IGF-1 test? Crappy customer service reps?

BOTOM LINE FOR ME: *Notsmall** might be about to uncover the truth* *here -Conclusively!* (money permitting). And I have been notified of a lab via *rnmacgurn* that may test for less than $195 (U.S.) in part due to his med/company privileges. 

I have also found after calling many labs that they immediately shut me down when I asked for these tests to verify my steroids . They told me they won't test controlled substances for a private individual. But they didn't have a problem with HGH - Sorry for my ignorance, but is HGH NOT a controlled substance?

*Please be tolerant with long winded posts - I will pay back in kind with PDF's of ACTUAL LAB TESTING *Mass Spectrometry and/or Liquid Chromatography.*
*And afterwards. I WILL post the cost, the name, address and phone number(s) to the lab I used for all those wanting to test THEIR suspicious little 10iu bottles*

----------


## BJJ

> I think *NotSmall* has about the* ONLY* sure fire method in motion. I've mentioned these two tests many times from researching them and speaking to rnmacgrun. The liquid chromatography and mass spectrometry. Then Mr. Rose posted yet another test that threw a curve ball in the pic. 
> 
> There are some things to consider *"AndroidLee" -* It has been mentioned that there is HGH commonly being "faked" with IGF-1 and quite possibly additional filler(s) that cause sides similar to hgh. I would imagine if you ran an IGF-1 blood test, it WOULD read high if you have a fake containing IGF-1
> 
> *However, if you blood test, will you:
> A: test inside 10-60 minutes of pinning (the ranges I've seen from posts)
> B: Will you pin intramuscular that day (as many say is necessary for testing)
> C: Do you have a BASELINE IGF-1 level (as to compare your results with)*
> 
> ...


a. if you pin IM yes
b. i did it sub-q and got the results anyway, waited 2 hours
c. sure but also a somatotropin one

----------


## marcus300

> I have spoken a great length with a scientist who works at an analytical lab today and this is the information I have.
> She tells me that the tests that would have to be carried out are extremely expensive, in order to find out exactly what is contained in a vial then a full characterisation analysis must be carried out, this would tell us about every substance contained in the vial but would cost thousands of pounds/dollars. She says that she could test the molecular weight and this would give an indication if the substance found had the same molecular weight as rHGH (22,124 Daltons) but with other substances sharing the same molecular weight then the result would not be conclusive and that further tests would need to be done to clarify the findings.
> She went on to talk about tests which would determine if the rHGH was active or not but again this would cost more money.
> 
> I am slowly coming to the conclusion that in order to find out exactly what we are injecting and what amount is in each vial is going to cost thousands. 
> *What concerns me more than anything isnt if there is rHGH in these vials its what else is in there that worries me and the possible long term health issues. Lets not forget the capabilities of these scientists in China, here in the UK we are being bombarded with imitation street drugs which have the same effect but for one tenth of the price, people who have taken these substances have lost their lives and our government are trying to stay one step ahead by banning them as soon as they are introduced*.
> 
> *Lets not forget what rHGH SHOULD do to you.*
> 
> ...


Excellent post XL and very true, they even mimic class A street drugs for a 10th of the price and flood the uk market, they do it with eggs,baby food/milk and street drugs, they are sure the no1 country for counterfeit, we need a cheap lab to get it tested not one in China though!!

----------


## Fantomg

There are some large discrepancies here re: Cost to run tests such as MS and LC. The lab in Florida we've found is talking about $195 USD. They seem to think it would conclude revealing all substances in the vial and potencies of each.
Now keep in mind, the guy who's in touch with them works for a company that distributes many types of HGH that they obtain from compounding companies. He recently started acquiring HGH from Asia and wants to test due to the fact that the Asian ones have caused so many pronounced side effects as compared to such products like Saizen and Genetropin etc. 

I called several places and found those tests anywhere from 450ish to 1,500USD. 

Someone will find a place that is willing to test at affordable rates - Maybe they'd be interested that they would get FLOODED with our wallets from this board if they will be reasonable price wise?

I pledge my persistence. I will continue to diligently search. I post long posts right now because I want to be SURE of what I'm asking and what I'm paying for. And then share with you guys my results via PDF Test results of MS and LC etc and also the name, address, test names, phone numbers of such a lab that is affordable.

----------


## Fantomg

*MARCUS300 and XTRALARG -*  I wanted to describe something to you both and solicit your opinions. Of course anyone else is welcome and appreciated.

I have experienced exactly what you've posted regarding the initial bloat that went away about 30 days in, then an amazing dump of bodyfat between 2 1/2 months and 5 1/2 months. (258 down to 230ish). I sleep and feel 100% better than I have in years now. I feel like a kid again sometimes. My shoulder injury of 10years is all but GONE. That avatar is myself (2 weeks out) many years ago using grams of gear but not HGH. I'm in my early 40's now and in spite of eating clean, just couldn't pull that "dry look" like in my mid 20's. 

However - What is going on with my other sides?
EVERY night I wake with (usually my right arm) with my arm so totally asleep, it feels as if I have a stump coming out of the trunk of my body. I can't even roll over as it is so dead. I get up and it goes away inside a few minutes. 
EVERY morning I wake to VERY painful knuckles on my right hand. I can't open or close my hand without big pain. I work at it for about 5 minutes and it goes away for the rest of the day, only to come back again the next morning.
Like I've said, I've been on about 5 1/2 months at 4iu - My objective with HGH was to help my shoulder and other joints a little and help rid myself of the extra BF that seems to be a little more stubborn in my years. - Again, I now have become a different person with my HGH. Greatly leaner and much fuller muscle bellies without changing my diet or anything else. Gear is the same I usually run.

Does anyone have these sides this long into HGH?

----------


## Fantomg

Sorry - I want to add:

rcmacgurn mentioned that the sides from the Asian HGH have seemed so much stronger than those from US Pharm grade HGH. He works with a company that distributes many type of HGH brands. I've noticed this posted a lot as well.

Also - How about this? I am nearly convinced I've got the real deal (Yellow Tops purchased in China) after posting back n forth especially with MARCUS300 and XTRALARG's comments. But take notice of something: Seemingly MORE sides than American Pharm Grade HGH. AND................. Why is the VOLUME of my Yellow Tops containing 10iu per vial seem to be larger than SAIZEN's vial which contain 24iu each???????

Maybe it's just packaging, the density, vacuum sealed, method of manufacturing the powder? OR Maybe it's got additional fillers and/or substance(s) that cause sides like real HGH?

----------


## marcus300

> Marcus - 
> I have experienced exactly what you've posted regarding the initial bloat that went away about 30 days in, then an amazing dump of bodyfat between 2 1/2 months and 5 1/2 months. (258 down to 230ish). I sleep and feel 100% better than I have in years now. I feel like a kid again sometimes. My shoulder injury of 10years is all but GONE. That avatar is myself many years ago using grams of gear but not HGH. I'm in my early 40's now and in spite of eating clean, just couldn't pull that "dry look" like in my mid 20's. 
> 
> However - What is going on with my other sides?
> EVERY night I wake with (usually my right arm) with my arm so totally asleep, it feels as if I have a stump coming out of the trunk of my body. I can't even roll over as it is so dead. I get up and it goes away inside a few minutes. 
> EVERY morning I wake to VERY painful knuckles on my right hand. I can't open or close my hand without big pain. I work at it for about 5 minutes and it goes away for the rest of the day, only to come back again the next morning.
> Like I've said, I've been on about 5 1/2 months at 4iu - My objective with HGH was to help my shoulder and other joints a little and help rid myself of the extra BF that seems to be a little more stubborn in my years. - Again, I now have become a different person with my HGH. Greatly leaner and much fuller muscle bellies without changing my diet or anything else. Gear is the same I usually run.
> 
> Does anyone have these sides this long into HGH?


I also have used various pharm grade gh and they have all made me respond the exact same way, exactly like what you have experienced and explained above but once i swapped over the Chinese gh's i have completely responded differently, why??

8ius of GH should be 8ius of gh no matter what company or Country make it, there shouldnt be any difference, just like 250mgs of test E no matter what Pharm grade Company make Test E it should all come out the same and it does! we only come across problems when we mess around with UGL's.

Ive done with China now, to many people are expereincing sides what you shouldnt get from GH, you shouldnt be bloated all over your body for months on end, you should be tight,ripped,lean,conditioned and hard you shouldnt be carrying water for months, the bloat i use to get was only in the wrist,ankles and elbows it wasnt all over, i wasnt smooth i was ripped. 

I am not saying everything what comes out of China is fake but I am sure something is wrong, why buy cheap and get something different from the real thing? or even have underdosed!!

Everytime i used gh yrs ago I transformed my whole body, i know i am a old guy  :Smilie:  now and i will respond differently but I know plently of younger guys who are having different reaction to pharm grade gh but they dont know any different, infact many like the bloat what it gives.

Guess we need to get it tested if you want to carry on using Chinese GH, for me I am done only Pharm grade from now on.

----------


## FCVtec

Ok.. So I am screwed.... I feel like shit about buying a 200iu kit of some fake s***. That hurts man.

----------


## Matt

> Ok.. So I am screwed.... I feel like shit about buying a 200iu kit of some fake s***. That hurts man.


Dude just be thankful you didnt buy much much more as many of us have..

----------


## AndriodLee

> I JUST WENT BACK AND POSTED THIS IN CAPS - SORRY IF YOU'VE SAID WHAT I JUST SAID. I WROTE SO FRIGGIN LONG AS USUAL THAT YOU GUYS HAVE POSTED 4-5 MORE BEFORE I FINISHED, LOL. I WILL NOW LIMIT MY POSTS GREATLY FROM THIS POINT ONWARD.
> 
> 
> 
> I think *NotSmall* has about the* ONLY* sure fire method in motion. I've mentioned these two tests many times from researching them and speaking to rnmacgrun. The liquid chromatography and mass spectrometry. Then Mr. Rose posted yet another test that threw a curve ball in the pic. 
> 
> There are some things to consider *"AndroidLee" -* It has been mentioned that there is HGH commonly being "faked" with IGF-1 and quite possibly additional filler(s) that cause sides similar to hgh. I would imagine if you ran an IGF-1 blood test, it WOULD read high if you have a fake containing IGF-1
> 
> However, if you blood test, will you:
> ...


I believe the hgh test that i'm referring to are performed to screen for abnormal pituitary functions and also to test for the use of performance enhancing steroids. 

That being said... would an igf1 test still be necessary? And just for the record I don't have a baseline to go off, and I understand that the blood tests aren't the most accurate to go off of, but I'm still curious about my blood levels, and I'd really like to contribute what ever information I can to this thread.

----------


## rmacgurn

> *MARCUS300 and XTRALARG -*  I wanted to describe something to you both and solicit your opinions. Of course anyone else is welcome and appreciated.
> 
> I have experienced exactly what you've posted regarding the initial bloat that went away about 30 days in, then an amazing dump of bodyfat between 2 1/2 months and 5 1/2 months. (258 down to 230ish). I sleep and feel 100% better than I have in years now. I feel like a kid again sometimes. My shoulder injury of 10years is all but GONE. That avatar is myself (2 weeks out) many years ago using grams of gear but not HGH. I'm in my early 40's now and in spite of eating clean, just couldn't pull that "dry look" like in my mid 20's. 
> 
> However - What is going on with my other sides?
> EVERY night I wake with (usually my right arm) with my arm so totally asleep, it feels as if I have a stump coming out of the trunk of my body. I can't even roll over as it is so dead. I get up and it goes away inside a few minutes. 
> EVERY morning I wake to VERY painful knuckles on my right hand. I can't open or close my hand without big pain. I work at it for about 5 minutes and it goes away for the rest of the day, only to come back again the next morning.
> Like I've said, I've been on about 5 1/2 months at 4iu - My objective with HGH was to help my shoulder and other joints a little and help rid myself of the extra BF that seems to be a little more stubborn in my years. - Again, I now have become a different person with my HGH. Greatly leaner and much fuller muscle bellies without changing my diet or anything else. Gear is the same I usually run.
> 
> Does anyone have these sides this long into HGH?


I am going to chime in here also. i have used saizen and humatrope for years at 2-3ius only ed. never experienced the issue with my hands, both sides, problems with the thumb, and last two fingers the worst, i realized this is classic cts, but have no other cts issues. Sometimes my little fingers get stuck folded over and i have to use my other hand to open it, then it also clicks upon opening, ,like the joint needs oil.

Also have the same issue with entire arm falling asleep during the night, within 10-30 min in the am all seems normal again. Also toes of both feet where stiff and sometimes sore. I inject in the am.

Switching back to Saizen recently the symptoms have slowly faded. keep in mind my dose has only been 2.4-2.5ius a day for last year. so i am convinced there is a difference with the blue tops from HK. I have been told that the apparent volume difference in the powder can be due to the compression of the puck, as the Chinese stuff comes with the vials in a vacuum, they literally suck the bac water out of the syringe. That could make the size of the puck larger as it would be loser, more fluffy i guess you could say.....maybe. but there is more here than meets the eye...traveling in the day tomorrow but will post up some good info tomorrow when i get back home.

----------


## FCVtec

> Will you check for HGH and IGF-1?


I have just ordered my bloodwork but I could only pick igf1 and also threw in Total testosterone just to know. They did not have a option for hgh. Maybe you can pm with that lab bjj, i ll get my next one done with them and throw in hgh test.

I will be pinning 7iu untill i get it in. I have been on hgh for six months but switched over to the probably fake ones about 10 days or so ago. I know I dont have a base line and that sucks but I still want to see what the results will tell us. I ll post once I get em. Thanks for all the amazing info guys.

----------


## BJJ

I am not aware if they accept international blood deliveries lol.
I live in Italy.

----------


## FCVtec

was not aware of that bjj, never mind then lol

----------


## Bob segal

*Please read our rules*

----------


## Fantomg

The problem with any answers you will solicit, Bob Segal - Is that if I told you Yellow Tops, there are probably 100's of places you could buy those from. Just like all the others. I'm a little private in nature and respect 3rd party disclosure laws when it comes to certain things but you may be able to PM someone and find specifics above just "what kind". And in lieu of board rules, ie; not posting lab names etc, you may have to PM to obtain that info.

----------


## marcus300

> The problem with any answers you will solicit, Bob Segal - Is that if I told you Yellow Tops, there are probably 100's of places you could buy those from. Just like all the others. I'm a little private in nature and respect 3rd party disclosure laws when it comes to certain things but you may be able to PM someone and find specifics above just "what kind". And in lieu of board rules, ie; not posting lab names etc, you may have to PM to obtain that info.


Yellow tops are the worse you can buy, compelte rubbish. Id try another brand for sure

----------


## Xtralarg

To those of you who get your HGH from China - In your experience is it common practice for them to ship the boxes and labels separately from the vials?

----------


## BJJ

> To those of you who get your HGH from China - In your experience is it common practice for them to ship the boxes and labels separately from the vials?


I received three of my five HGH from Hong Kong, and none of them shipped like that.

----------


## Matt

> To those of you who get your HGH from China - In your experience is it common practice for them to ship the boxes and labels separately from the vials?


No, mine came in boxes and labels, all looking very professional..

Also have security seals and verification codes....

----------


## Fantomg

> To those of you who get your HGH from China - In your experience is it common practice for them to ship the boxes and labels separately from the vials?


Yeah - lI've seen blues and yellows come like that. They have been hiding the labels behind the packaging/address label on the outside of the box. When questioned, they explained this was because they were getting vials seized more often when they shipped with the labels on the vials.

----------


## Hazard

> To those of you who get your HGH from China - In your experience is it common practice for them to ship the boxes and labels separately from the vials?


Mine come already packaged in a plain box. Each vial is sealed and has a tight vaccuum but no labels.

I know of one supplier who ships the vials in a bag and sends you the box's to put together yourself.....

~Haz~

----------


## NotSmall

> To those of you who get your HGH from China - In your experience is it common practice for them to ship the boxes and labels separately from the vials?


My Riptropin came that way.

----------


## Hazard

Here's what my HGH looks like.....


  



~Haz~

----------


## JuliusPleaser

My rips came from HK and they came in white boxes, and the labeles and boxes came seperately...

however, when i order domestic, they are labled and boxed...obviously by reshipper

aparently the security codes mean nothing, cause even fakes have them... so really wonder, why would the factory not make their product labeled...UNLESS the factory was making generic blue tops and the labels/boxes are made on purpose to make us think we have otherwise?

anyone can make a top with a double helix on it...

ill never order chinese again... its no diff then making nikes and then mailing u the nike symbol seperately?...coming form the factory, makes no sense...

and as for the "security reasons"...wouldn't custom DEFINALTLY stop unlabled white powders more than labeled ones?...i would assume so...also, i have had friends who ordered kits fully labeled and boxed in original....

customs will not stop them...they dont know u, they dont know why u have them..they dont know everything... u may have a legit reason to take GH, how can they just stop and take ur mail from u... the only reasons why i trusted rips was all the "good reviews" i got from the actually source and his boards

----------


## NotSmall

> My rips came from HK and they came in white boxes, and the labeles and boxes came seperately...
> 
> however, when i order domestic, they are labled and boxed...obviously by reshipper
> 
> *aparently the security codes mean nothing, cause even fakes have them...* so really wonder, why would the factory not make their product labeled...UNLESS the factory was making generic blue tops and the labels/boxes are made on purpose to make us think we have otherwise?
> 
> anyone can make a top with a double helix on it...
> 
> ill never order chinese again... its no diff then making nikes and then mailing u the nike symbol seperately?...coming form the factory, makes no sense...
> ...


How do you know that?

----------


## JuliusPleaser

well because the fake hyges have them too... all u have to do is create a website that allows you to enter the secrutiy code from your box...

the spinwheel hyges from cn.com have a security code and they valid when u put in that code, yet we all know they are the counterfiet hyges...

anyone can do it...now if a well known coporation like Serono had a verification system, then i would def consider it to be legit... riptropins website looks like crap...trust me i hope they are real, i have 9 kits on me

----------


## NotSmall

> well because the fake hyges have them too... all u have to do is create a website that allows you to enter the secrutiy code from your box...
> 
> the spinwheel hyges from cn.com have a security code and they valid when u put in that code, yet we all know they are the counterfiet hyges...
> 
> anyone can do it...now if a well known coporation like Serono had a verification system, then i would def consider it to be legit... riptropins website looks like crap...trust me i hope they are real, i have 9 kits on me


OK you have to be careful what you type cos your post before reads like you know that fake Riptropins still have legit security numbers.

----------


## lionmann

edit,

----------


## AndriodLee

> Here's what my HGH looks like.....
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> ~Haz~


that's what mine look like

----------


## russiandave

edit, we dont promote sources of any kind no matter how you want to start them off, sorry. Marcus300

----------


## booste

> My source is one of the most well known sources throughout a region and has a client base of 50+ gyms within my region and has been in the 'game' for almost 10 years and I have 100% trust in what he says, and he has given his gurantee that the Chinese HGH stuff he has is legitimate and I so far and everybody I know who have used his stuff have no reason to complain.
> 
> He deals in mainly in two brands, both of which are Chinese generic HGH, ********** and GTropin. I have been on Gtropin for the past 7 weeks now and have deffinately seen visible results at 4IU's and have most of the text book symptoms of exogenous use of HGH. Here are some of the pictures of the stuff I have.
> 
> This is the brand i'm currently using and I have been impressed so far, I have 800ius of this stuff left:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Ok guys, first of all I'm new here, not new to AAS though. I came accross this thread and decided to jump ship from another forum. I have been running the Hyge blue top pinwheels for about 4 months, same EXACT ones as these photos. My exp dates are sept. 2010 though. This is my first run on growth I started @ 2iu ed for abt 6wks then went to 4ui ed. Im still running 4iu and I have just started to notice some serious fatloss, especially where I have been pinning near the bellybutton. I am not currently on any AAS just growth. I will be starting test/var next week. 
This stuff has to be working at least 20 people have given me compliments on how "lean" I look. My hands are so tight sometimes I can't make a fist, and both hands go completely numb sometimes. I read every post in this thread and I am still concerned abt the quality of the stuff I'm injecting into my body. 
I think everyone who is doubtful abt thier growth should do the pregnancy test to rule out having HCG , Im going to do it this weekend just to be safe. I now want to get an IGf-1 test as well. I'm reading all these bad things abt HYGES but it seems to be working good for me, at least I think it is. 

I want to buy a few more kits but not sure now because of reading all this, I don't want to get burned. Anyone else have good results on Hyges?

----------


## Xtralarg

*MY OPINION ON 'TOPS'*

What we have to remember is that tops are nothing more and nothing less than tops! Anyone can buy vials and tops and produce 'blue tops' 'red tops' 'yellow tops' 'green tops' or any other colour you can think of. It says absolutely nothing about the quality, the amount or even the contents. Its a bit like buying a plain white t shirt and calling it an Armani one, it may well be made by Armani but its more likely not to be.

Lets think of this in a logical way....if I was making high quality HGH then I would be putting my name to it and sticking my label on that vial for the world to see, this would promote my company and enhance the brand image. So this makes me wonder that whoever is producing these plain vials with coloured tops in plain boxes has something to hide or at the very best they have very little to promote.

Thoughts guys and gals?

----------


## marcus300

> *MY OPINION ON 'TOPS'*
> 
> What we have to remember is that tops are nothing more and nothing less than tops! Anyone can buy vials and tops and produce 'blue tops' 'red tops' 'yellow tops' 'green tops' or any other colour you can think of. It says absolutely nothing about the quality, the amount or even the contents. Its a bit like buying a plain white t shirt and calling it an Armani one, it may well be made by Armani but its more likely not to be.
> 
> Lets think of this in a logical way....if I was making high quality HGH then I would be putting my name to it and sticking my label on that vial for the world to see, this would promote my company and enhance the brand image. So this makes me wonder that whoever is producing these plain vials with coloured tops in plain boxes has something to hide or at the very best they have very little to promote.
> 
> Thoughts guys and gals?


Totally agree XL wise words, 

I wonder what colour tops they will bring out next, probably sh1t tops!  :Smilie:

----------


## Xtralarg

> Totally agree XL wise words, 
> 
> I wonder what colour tops they will bring out next, probably sh1t tops!


Brown or white?

----------


## marcus300

Article in The Guardian this week makes interesting reading:



*The dangers of human growth hormones*
Synthetic hormones such as Kigtropin can boost muscles but users risk blood clots, paralysis  or a prison sentence


The Guardian, Tuesday 13 July 2010 
A growing number of bodybuilders use illegal growth hormones. Photograph: Murdo Macleod 
Harry (not his real name), 27, a marketing executive from north London, is a keen sportsman and bodybuilder. He spent hours in the gym, and poring over health pages for muscle-boosting tips. Yet he grew frustrated when his muscle growth appeared to plateau. While many bodybuilders turn to steroids (some 250,000 people are thought to use them in the UK, as Raoul Moat apparently did), Harry was deterred by the side-effects, which can include mental health damage. Instead, like an increasing number of gym users, he turned to Kigtropin.

A brand name for synthetically produced human growth hormone , Kigtropin is used to replace the naturally produced hormones in the pituitary gland, which slow down as we leave our teens. It was once an expensive niche drug costing thousands of pounds a dose, but is now becoming more common in high street gyms across the UK. In 2007, Sylvester Stallone was ordered to pay £5,400 in fines and costs by a court in Australia for possession of growth hormone. This year, Tiger Woods's former doctor Anthony Galea was charged with possession of growth hormone and administering it to clients.

Now, thanks to cheap supplies available on the internet (mainly from China), Kigtropin has hit the mainstream. In Bristol, bosses at a branch of Fitness First had to install needle bins earlier this year because so many members were leaving syringes lying around. A spokesman for Fitness First said the gym did not tolerate the use of drugs and was "increasing monitoring procedures to identify any unacceptable or illegal behaviour".

But for Harry, the drug seemed the perfect solution."I have always wanted to be much bigger. I went to a sport-playing school and always felt smaller than the other guys. What I had heard about growth hormone was unbelievable. Being in a gym where people take it, you assume everyone is at it."

He began taking the hormone for 18 months in cycles  three months on it, one month off  and was thrilled by the results. "I can lift more, my muscles feel harder, I have increased energy and I don't have the paranoia or 'roid rage [the anger brought on by steroid abuse ] I might have had with steroids. I tore my achilles tendon playing rugby last year. The doctor said I would be out for nine months, but my tendon healed within three and I was back playing within four months. I think that had a lot to do with what I was taking."

Dr Michael Graham, senior lecturer in substance misuse at Newman University College, Birmingham, says: "Growth hormone has extremely therapeutic benefits. It is prescribed privately by Harley Street clinicians who assist in anti-ageing. But it also can enhance muscle growth and promote weight loss by preventing carbohydrate from being turned into fat.

"I have carried out a study which showed that human growth hormone increased muscle mass in steroid users whose muscle growth had flattened out. Also, it has been shown to increase cartilage growth and repair  there is no shadow of a doubt that users will have an increased healing rate."

Yet doctors warn that growth hormones are illegal without a licence  those found supplying them can face 14 years in prison and an unlimited fine. Even more worryingly, users of the hormone could be dicing with death. Nearly all of the Kigtropin entering this country is smuggled in or bought online with no control or guidance on how to take it. Mick Hart, author of the Layman's Guide to Steroids, says: "The danger is 99% will use it irresponsibly  taking way too much or not knowing how to inject it. Dealers want you to take as much as they can sell you. Cycles of hormone use used to be around eight weeks long and then some time off  now people are taking them solidly for two to three years."

Inexperienced syringe users can slash an artery and bleed to death, create blood clots, or hit a nerve and risk permanent paralysis. Long-term use can, according to Graham, lead to carpal tunnel syndrome (the compression of nerves in the wrists, which causes incessant tingling), raised blood sugar levels (which can trigger Type 2 diabetes), heart failure and  in excessive doses  gigantism, the disproportionate growth of body parts.

Users also have no guarantee of what they are buying, according to drug seizure expert Allen Morgan. "I have had cases where dealers didn't even know that they had been selling rubbish. From a law enforcement perspective it is a grey area, as police are brought up on a culture of going after street drugs and they simply have no grasp of how the bodybuilding drugs market works."

Hart says that supplies could also be tainted: "They are finding trace elements of metals in phials being shipped in from all over the place, as any wannabe dealer with a metal drum in places like China and Russia is attempting to make them on the cheap. That can be lethal."

However, for Harry and many others the lure of the physique of their dreams is too strong to give up: "I decided the results were worth any risk," he says.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Article in The Guardian this week makes interesting reading:
> 
> 
> 
> *The dangers of human growth hormones*
> Synthetic hormones such as Kigtropin can boost muscles but users risk blood clots, paralysis  or a prison sentence
> 
> 
> The Guardian, Tuesday 13 July 2010 
> ...



I dont like the sound of that but is it propaganda?

The article contradicts itself saying that Chinese rhgh is making people huge but in the next sentence it says it is rubbish.  :Hmmmm:

----------


## NotSmall

I personally wouldn't put any faith in anything Mick Hart says...

----------


## BJJ

XL, going to sleep now just injected 5 iu.
I don't know what is going on man but I am getting bigger.
My shoulders are ripped as well as my arms and my abs are more visible.
It's like if I am on test susp!!!

I am sure tomorrow I won't be disproved by the blood work.

----------


## Xtralarg

> XL, going to sleep now just injected 5 iu.
> I don't know what is going on man but I am getting bigger.
> My shoulders are ripped as well as my arms and my abs are more visible.
> It's like if I am on test susp!!!
> 
> I am sure tomorrow I won't be disproved by the blood work.


I have my fingers crossed!

----------


## BJJ

bump

----------


## richard0460

I have been buying Serostim HGH from an American in Mexico and been very satisfied with him and the product. Then in a google search I findThey appear to sell all of the American and European brands of HGH including Serostim which is made by Serono in Switzerland and the prices are too good to be true! Natuarally I am greedy and want to save money. So wanting to do due diligence because the price is so low I send them an email through their contact sheet on their website. I call their phone number in Bejing many times. No answer. No response. Ever. Then I find another website giving them glowing reviews from body builders. I think this is an elaborate scam with a companion scam review site. They insist on no credit cards only Western Union type payment which has no accountability if things go wrong. Does anyone know these people? Many thanks!

edit, marcus300

----------


## BJJ

^^^
Edit your post lol and read the rules.

----------


## Xtralarg

Guys has anyone found a lab which can test a vial of rHGH yet? The clock is ticking and it isnt looking good, the only labs i have found which can do a comprehensive test are quoting 1000's.

can anyone shed some light on this situation?

----------


## BJJ

I asked this morning.
On Monday afternoon I will know if they do it and how much it costs.

----------


## Xtralarg

> I asked this morning.
> On Monday afternoon I will know if they do it and how much it costs.


Thanks BJJ.

----------


## FCVtec

> *MY OPINION ON 'TOPS'*
> 
> What we have to remember is that tops are nothing more and nothing less than tops! Anyone can buy vials and tops and produce 'blue tops' 'red tops' 'yellow tops' 'green tops' or any other colour you can think of. It says absolutely nothing about the quality, the amount or even the contents. Its a bit like buying a plain white t shirt and calling it an Armani one, it may well be made by Armani but its more likely not to be.
> 
> Lets think of this in a logical way....if I was making high quality HGH then I would be putting my name to it and sticking my label on that vial for the world to see, this would promote my company and enhance the brand image. So this makes me wonder that whoever is producing these plain vials with coloured tops in plain boxes has something to hide or at the very best they have very little to promote.
> 
> Thoughts guys and gals?


Spot on.

Now on another note, my blood test finally arrived, I injected 4iu 15 minutes before taking my blood sample, went up from 5 to 7iu these last coupe days. (we already know my hyge is probably fake) but I am doing this anyway, I will switch to kefeis as soon as I can get some, re-test and post my results. The attached patient form that came with the test kit asks if I am on any hormones, should I say yes and describe what I am on?? I am not on any AAS only the hgh. I am testing for total test and igf 1.

----------


## Xtralarg

I have posted the first paragraph of this on another thread but will post it here also.

We have to remember that rHGH cannot be made in a "bathtub" pharmacy (like steroids can) because the necessary equipment cost is multimillion-dollars and the technical knowledge includes genetic manipulation of e.coli bacteria, etc...Very few places have this capability and are licensed to carry out such procedures even in China. Ok they may not be bothered about the licence but how many guys have millions and millions of dollars to spend along with the scientific knowledge required to make rHGH...not very many IMO. 

This is why pharm grade is very very expensive, because it costs a fortune to make it and the sooner everyone realises this and pulls their heads out of the sand the better. From now on I will not be using anything but pharm grade because I want to be sure that what Im putting into my body is 100% safe and wont cause me long term damage. Without lab testing the Chinese generics its just too much of a gamble now IMO, the Chinese have poisoned their own babies in the pursuit of profit a quick buck so you can rest assured they wont give a flying fvck about a bunch of BBers from the west that have no rights or comeback anyway when it comes to Chinese rHGH.

*Seriously guys there really are only 2 options if you want to be safe.* 

1.Get a western lab to do a full analytical analysis on your vial or 
2.Bite the bullet and buy Pharma grade

Please take heed of what I say, it may just be the best decision you make today!

----------


## NotSmall

> Spot on.
> 
> Now on another note, my blood test finally arrived, I injected 4iu 15 minutes before taking my blood sample, went up from 5 to 7iu these last coupe days. (we already know my hyge is probably fake) but I am doing this anyway, I will switch to kefeis as soon as I can get some, re-test and post my results. The attached patient form that came with the test kit asks if I am on any hormones, should I say yes and describe what I am on?? I am not on any AAS only the hgh. I am testing for total test and igf 1.


How is the test administered?

----------


## marcus300

> I have posted the first paragraph of this on another thread but will post it here also.
> 
> We have to remember that rHGH cannot be made in a "bathtub" pharmacy (like steroids can) because the necessary equipment cost is multimillion-dollars and the technical knowledge includes genetic manipulation of e.coli bacteria, etc...Very few places have this capability and are licensed to carry out such procedures even in China. Ok they may not be bothered about the licence but how many guys have millions and millions of dollars to spend along with the scientific knowledge required to make rHGH...not very many IMO. 
> 
> This is why pharm grade is very very expensive, because it costs a fortune to make it and the sooner everyone realises this and pulls their heads out of the sand the better. From now on I will not be using anything but pharm grade because I want to be sure that what Im putting into my body is 100% safe and wont cause me long term damage. Without lab testing the Chinese generics its just too much of a gamble now IMO, the Chinese have poisoned their own babies in the pursuit of profit a quick buck so you can rest assured they wont give a flying fvck about a bunch of BBers from the west that have no rights or comeback anyway when it comes to Chinese rHGH.
> 
> *Seriously guys there really are only 2 options if you want to be safe.* 
> 
> 1.Get a western lab to do a full analytical analysis on your vial or 
> ...


I agreed 100% XL, 

Many people should take note of what you have written instead of sticking their head in the sand with this issue, people dont want to believe their Chinese GH is fake or not active. The reason why GH is expensive is because of the process of making it.

I've used Pharm Grade GH many years ago and it is nothing like the China garbage what is flooding the market at 1/10 of the price.

People should open their eyes and take the blinkers off.

Also, what the hell is in this fake China GH? what are you injecting? get it tested but then again this is another problem because from my research it cost $$'s to get one properly tested and no one is going to do that.

----------


## BJJ

> I agreed 100% XL, 
> 
> Many people should take note of what you have written instead of sticking their head in the sand with this issue, people dont want to believe their Chinese GH is fake or not active. The reason why GH is expensive is because of the process of making it.
> 
> I've used Pharm Grade GH many years ago and it is nothing like the China garbage what is flooding the market at 1/10 of the price.
> 
> People should open their eyes and take the blinkers off.
> 
> Also, what the hell is in this fake China GH? what are you injecting? get it tested but then again this is another problem because from my research it cost $$'s to get one properly tested and *no one is going to do that*.


I will  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## FCVtec

> How is the test administered?


They sent me this kit with a paper with circles and instructions, you pinch your finger with the "thing" they send you and put drops of blood in this paper and seal it so it doesn t get contaminated then send it off to the lab. It seems to be a serious lab, they only do testing, they dont sell anything but saliva and blood spot tests. Was that clear Small?

----------


## Hazard

This seriously sucks LOL

If I go pharm grade i'll hafta buy 1 kit every now and again and then wait until I have enough kits for a decent cycle..... that blows haha

~Haz~

----------


## NotSmall

> They sent me this kit with a paper with circles and instructions, you pinch your finger with the "thing" they send you and put drops of blood in this paper and seal it so it doesn t get contaminated then send it off to the lab. It seems to be a serious lab, they only do testing, they dont sell anything but saliva and blood spot tests. Was that clear Small?


Yes mate it is clear but what I do not understand is that the labs I have spoken to have told me that IGF-1 degrades rapidly once out of the body and blood must be tested withing 5hrs of being drawn.

----------


## NotSmall

> This seriously sucks LOL
> 
> If I go pharm grade i'll hafta buy 1 kit every now and again and then wait until I have enough kits for a decent cycle..... that blows haha
> 
> ~Haz~


Let's not panic until we have an actual negative test result - the evidence we are basing our fears on at the moment is far from conclusive - in fact it is mostly still just supposition.

I am still talking to 2 labs about getting the right test done and I am still optimistic that we can get it done at an affordable price - it is taking a little time because outside of our community where is the market for testing vials of freeze dried growth hormone ?

Even if it costs close to $1,000 or £500 surely it is worth it when you consider the cost of us all switching to pharma grade?

----------


## Hazard

quick question..... I noticed my bluetops foamed a little bit today. I think it was because I used a bigger needle to put the water in and the vaccuum just sucked it out faster..... has anyone elses HGH foamed a little?

~Haz~

----------


## Xtralarg

> quick question..... I noticed my bluetops foamed a little bit today. I think it was because I used a bigger needle to put the water in and the vaccuum just sucked it out faster..... has anyone elses HGH foamed a little?
> 
> ~Haz~


Just elaborate on the 'foamed' bit please im not 100% sure how to picture it.

----------


## bjpennnn

this is one of the best threads on this site, keep up with all the info and follow up. i know myself have spent a few k ez on hgh would like to know for future refreance what i am really putting gin my body lol.

----------


## Hazard

> Just elaborate on the 'foamed' bit please im not 100% sure how to picture it.


It's hard to describe really..... 

After it foamed a little - I turned the vial upside down and the foamy bubbles stuck to the wall of the vial and slid down it slowly. I guess it was just a lot of tiny bubbles from the water hitting the wall of the vial and then hitting the hgh too quickly.....

~Haz~

----------


## Xtralarg

> It's hard to describe really..... 
> 
> After it foamed a little - I turned the vial upside down and the foamy bubbles stuck to the wall of the vial and slid down it slowly. I guess it was just a lot of tiny bubbles from the water hitting the wall of the vial and then hitting the hgh too quickly.....
> 
> ~Haz~


I take it you let the water trickle slowly into the vial so you didnt damage the rHGH?

----------


## JimInAK

> Yes mate it is clear but what I do not understand is that the labs I have spoken to have told me that IGF-1 degrades rapidly once out of the body and blood must be tested withing 5hrs of being drawn.


I've taken blood spot tests for IGF-1 and the results appeared to be accurate, in as much as they were what I expected. I used one of the more prominent online testing companies. They sent me a kit that I returned by UPS.

I believe that online testing of blood for your level of IGF-1 is legitimate.

----------


## Sc0rch

> Here's what my HGH looks like.....
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> ~Haz~


This is exactly what mine come like except they're red tops. Same exact box.

Been using for 9 months. I can only use 2iu ED. I tried to slowly work my way up to 3.5iu but I was miserable from the side affects.

----------


## Hazard

> I take it you let the water trickle slowly into the vial so you didnt damage the rHGH?


Thats the thing..... I wasn't using a slin pin to inject the water. I was reconstituting 6 vials for 3 days and decided to use an 18g pin. The vaccuum was so strong that it pulled the water out of the syringe rather fast. I did have it on an angle so it hit the wall of the vial 1st but it still came out really fast. Needless to say..... I wont be doing that again.....

~Haz~

----------


## Xtralarg

> quick question..... I noticed my bluetops foamed a little bit today. I think it was because I used a bigger needle to put the water in and the vaccuum just sucked it out faster..... has anyone elses HGH foamed a little?
> 
> ~Haz~





> Thats the thing..... I wasn't using a slin pin to inject the water. I was reconstituting 6 vials for 3 days and decided to use an 18g pin. The vaccuum was so strong that it pulled the water out of the syringe rather fast. I did have it on an angle so it hit the wall of the vial 1st but it still came out really fast. Needless to say..... I wont be doing that again.....
> 
> ~Haz~


I think thou just answered your own question Haz!  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## marcus300

Interesting news article Ive found, ive had to edit certain parts due to it showing the source.

Health : hyge (edit marcus300) is a scam selling fake Hyge (edit,marcus300) .Scammers 
Richard Flynn, a heavy goods vehicle technician from Rawmarsh, Rotherham was sentenced to 12 months imprisonment, suspended for 18 months, with an additional penalty of 120-hours community service. 

Christopher Taylor, a house husband and gym owner also from Rawmarsh, Rotherham was sentenced to nine months imprisonment, suspended for 12 months, with an additional penalty of 80-hours community service. 

The pair were also involved in the importation of the human growth hormone , Fake Hyge (edit marcus300), with an estimated value of £96,000. 

Tests on the products seized during the investigation had shown that both the oxymetholone and Hyge (edit marcus300) from (edit marcus300) contained no trace of the stated active ingredients. 

A parcel was collected by MHRA investigators at Stansted Airport in November 2008. It contained 250 vials of an unidentified white powder labeled Hyge (edit marcus300) Analysis has since shown that this product contained no human growth hormone . The estimated value of this product is £3,000. 

Analysis of Flynns computer by forensic experts revealed e-mails that appeared to show he was dealing in various steroids from July 2007. From March 2008, Flynn and Taylor appeared to enter into a project to import fake Hyge (edit marcus300), then package and re-mail the product, along with a contact based in China. Emails outlined the importation of parcels of the product by courier from China to around ten addresses in the South Yorkshire area and the transfer of funds back to China. 

Other e-mail evidence showed Flynn attempting to obtain suppliers for steroids, arranging importation and then offering to sell the products from June 2007 onwards. It is estimated the pair imported at least 8,000 vials of fake Hyge (edit marcus300).

----------


## Matt

> Interesting news article Ive found, ive had to edit certain parts due to it showing the source.
> 
> Health : hyge (edit marcus300) is a scam selling fake Hyge (edit,marcus300) .Scammers 
> Richard Flynn, a heavy goods vehicle technician from Rawmarsh, Rotherham was sentenced to 12 months imprisonment, suspended for 18 months, with an additional penalty of 120-hours community service. 
> 
> Christopher Taylor, a house husband and gym owner also from Rawmarsh, Rotherham was sentenced to nine months imprisonment, suspended for 12 months, with an additional penalty of 80-hours community service. 
> 
> The pair were also involved in the importation of the human growth hormone , Fake Hyge (edit marcus300), with an estimated value of £96,000. 
> 
> ...


Interesting article, its a shame they didnt say what was in the vials..

----------


## matt77

> Interesting article, its a shame they didnt say what was in the vials..


It said it had traces of oxymetholone and no active GH. Unless I read it wrong. Thats even more disturbing if thats what it meant.

----------


## Xtralarg

> It said it had traces of oxymetholone and no active GH. Unless I read it wrong. Thats even more disturbing if thats what it meant.


You have read it worng, it says:

the investigation had shown that *both the oxymetholone and Hyge* (edit marcus300) from (edit marcus300) contained no trace of the stated active ingredients. 

I will PM you the original article if you want it.

----------


## turk1968

ive use hgh for about 5 years now ,ansomone then blues and last few years greens. Sides have always been about the same on 8ius of either.

Now im 48 , I competed in my twenties and used gh then to diet on and it cost me a fortune to run 4ius every other day. When i started serious training at 42 i started straight on gh only, the aas about a year later.

Personally im not sure what to think. I have no financial constraints so have tried it every way possible (2x 4iu shots per day , 3 x 3.3iu shots per day and between 10iu and 24iu shots 3 x per week.)

I seemed to get good results before xmas with the three very large shots but since repeating this with just test and dbol rather than test/tren and dbol with hgh im not sure if the tren was doing what i believed the hgh was doing. 

On the other hand i went for my yearly medical earlier this year ,normally i stop everything for about 6 weeks before i go except my 150mg trt test dose. This time i ran the hgh and all was fine. The one interesting thing was that i had an MRI scan on my bad knee as it was playing up again and when i saw the consultant he said that the bone marrow in my thigh was active. He said that nearly all men of my age the bone marrow would of been dormant for many years, he then smiled and said "unless any supplements you are taking for your training is causing this!" He said it was a good thing . 

On one more note ,most people seem to say that they experience fat loss slowly as the hgh usage continues. Both myself and my training partner agree that we get an initial burst of fat loss in the first few weeks then it slows to a halt!!! Ive heard other people on this board say this but get flamed for this statement .

I dont know what to think so have delayed my next order for know

Finally "if all was well then there would be no questions asking how to take hgh as there would be a mutually agreed way just as there is with aas "

Sorry for rambling 

Confused !!!

----------


## matt77

> You have read it worng, it says:
> 
> the investigation had shown that *both the oxymetholone and Hyge* (edit marcus300) from (edit marcus300) contained no trace of the stated active ingredients. 
> 
> I will PM you the original article if you want it.


I see that I did today read it wrong today. Guess I was beat more than I thought last night, lol. I read the full article now thanks for the offer though.

----------


## matt77

Ok I have an idea on how to tell if your GH is real but its very basic and won't give exact numbers. 

A blood glucose meter! You should be able to tell if your GH is working if you take samples before and at 30 min intervals for an hour or so after on an empty stomach. This should be a really good indication if its real especially if your getting the other sides also.

----------


## FCVtec

> I have known my source since high school (8 yr ago or so.) And everything I ever got from them was legit up until today. I always got AAS from them but never HGH so when I first got Kefeis from my source I wAsnt 100 percent sure of it's authenticity because i knew that there is a lot of fake hgh out there. It mixed just like described by you guys but takes over 60 seconds for the flakes on the bottom to dissolve, when I climbed over 3iu I got really bloated and even my BP spiked, also CTS. It was a strong sign that they were the real deal plus I do trust my source. I am gonna find a pic from the net of the kefei's and I want to point out that it comes with a lil silver kefei sticker sealing the box and it should be intact, once u take it out it;s easy to notice that has been opened (like a seal sticker made to get damaged once removed). 
> 
> I have switched to hyge now and I know for sure it's legit, I like how it's packed on vacuum and has neat packaging with a scratch off seal to verify authenticity. It's easy to tell that it has been manufactured to a much higher standard when compared to kefeis.... I hope the results are better 2. Will know soon. Also the hyge have a new design on the anti fake sticker and it's a scratch off.
> 
> I do like what HGH has done to me in the past 6 months. Helped break through 185 (I have a small frame and my natural weight was 135 before i started dedicating myself to the gym).. I am off cycle now and I am 188 which is unheard of for me. And I am still gaining. Leaner than ever and feel like a 18 yr old. THe mood boost is very obvious.


We already knew those hyges I got were fake after all the input from you guys and I got my results from my bloodwork today and my IGF is in normal range (263). So its 100 percent confirmed that I got RIPPED OFF!!! Getting my money back is gonna be fun! I cant wait.

----------


## JuliusPleaser

I sent an email to my source, his first inital is with an "H" (for those who know who im talking about) the other day to hear his side of the story... He swears by hit RIPs and says that he is more than happy to replace any "bad" rips... He even offered to pay for my blood test...

heres what he wrote:

"hi bro,

thank you for email. bro let me say a few things on this subject.

bro i have been in this business of selling hgh for the last 5 years now and i have keep an honest shop running. 

i only buy my hgh directly from the manufacturer and there is no middle man involved as to some one trying to swap the hgh with low quality hgh. also bro all the shippers and my remailers are direclty under my control. so again no chance of any such problems.

now as far as some people lodging complaints about the quality of the hgh and i took those complaints to the manufacturer and to solve the issue these peopole were asked to returned the unused rips back to china for testing and their rips were replaced free of cost.

bro i still stand by my products and 100% guarantee their quality. i cannot say that for some reason there can be some issues sometimes. like some batch problem or mishandling by shippers or just some vested instrests creating fuss just to harm me or my business.

now let me give you an example . so dude on chemical mass started compalining about the quality and his name is lifeguard. and claimed that his igf blood test was not up to mark. so i decided to replace it with ********** and also send him some rips free and asked him to do the igf blood tests again and i will pay for the blood test. now after making such a huge issue on the boards about the quality of the riptropin and we ended up having a huge arguement over the board and once we reconciled and now once he has gotten his replacement rips and hyg he says he cannot get a prescriptionfrom the doc to do a blood test and he does not know how to do it now. now you tell me what you think? was it a geniune complaint of some ones vested interested was looked after.

now complaint no 2 was from a guy called fossil fuel. he also made a huge cry about the quality of the hgh and said his igf level was very low. i refunded his funds and then offered to sned him a free kit on one condition that he will do the blood test again and show the results on the boards honestly. he comes back to me said that he wants to buy a saliva test kit for igf levels. i said wow... all this time he has been complaining and basing all his tests on saliva tests? i confronted him and he got pissed off and broke communicatinos with me. now you think this was a genuine complaint or a vested interest being looked after?

bro all i can say that the rips are a great product but it seems its quick popularity seems to be not doing well with a lot of suppliers and hence the issues of quality being raised. i am not saying that they cannot be problems with any product. its just that even if there is a problem with any of my products. iam here to address it and sort out any issues. and all the manufacturer of all the products i sell are also behind me. even a complaint of 100iu or rips being sold has been taken very very seriously and i do a follow up and ask and probe to see if the problem is genuine but even if i feel its not . i go out of the way to solve that problem. but that does not mean in any way that the product is of low quality. i think the rips is a great product and i still think you should not shy away from it.

but if you feel you are not getting the right quality product or any of your friends feel that way. you let me know and we can work out and do some blood tests for you on my expense to prove you that the product in hand you have is the right product with the best quality


i hope all this info helps you out in clarifying your mind.

let me know if you need any more info" END OF EMAIL

personally if what everyone is claiming is true, we would have WAY more complaints about the rips.... my experience is as follows: 5/2 at 5ius, i get great sleep and i have lost significant about of body fat, but still do not have shredded abs...i have been on from about 6 months...

i have also read that getting sides is not really a MUST to know u have good gh...i really didn't get any sides until month 2, where my thumb bone started to throb..that didn't last very long....i will attach a photo of my body changes on cycle and with rips...

i have order tons of kits from him so i would hope that they are good quality...my last shipment however did have some kits that had the disk powder top broke off a bit, probably bad shipping and handling...

another friend I gave some kits too also stated that his Hyges are better than the rips... but did say the rips were good to go...anyone else that i gave some kits to said they were good to go...judging from what i said, what do u think...the photos belong are in a 6 month time frame

----------


## Matt

> I sent an email to my source, his first inital is with an "H" (for those who know who im talking about) the other day to hear his side of the story... He swears by hit RIPs and says that he is more than happy to replace any "bad" rips... He even offered to pay for my blood test...
> 
> heres what he wrote:
> 
> "hi bro,
> 
> thank you for email. bro let me say a few things on this subject.
> 
> bro i have been in this business of selling hgh for the last 5 years now and i have keep an honest shop running. 
> ...


To be honest bro and without being rude, i hardly see any difference in those photos. If ive been on for 6 months id expect to be far more cut than you appear to be...

If it was me id be very disappointed in those results, sorry...

----------


## Xtralarg

> To be honest bro and without being rude, i hardly see any difference in those photos. If ive been on for 6 months id expect to be far more cut than you appear to be...
> 
> If it was me id be very disappointed in those results, sorry...


I agree. 

6 months on gh and you should be very tight and very lean.

----------


## marcus300

> To be honest bro and without being rude, i hardly see any difference in those photos. If ive been on for 6 months id expect to be far more cut than you appear to be...
> 
> If it was me id be very disappointed in those results, sorry...


I agree^^ I dont see any difference either.




> I sent an email to my source, his first inital is with an "H" (for those who know who im talking about) the other day to hear his side of the story... He swears by hit RIPs and says that he is more than happy to replace any "bad" rips... He even offered to pay for my blood test...
> 
> heres what he wrote:
> 
> "hi bro,
> 
> thank you for email. bro let me say a few things on this subject.
> 
> bro i have been in this business of selling hgh for the last 5 years now and i have keep an honest shop running. 
> ...


Please try pharm grade gh and you will never buy Chinese again.

----------


## JuliusPleaser

well thats what im saying...had i been shredded to pieces with abs especially, i wouldn't even be posting any doubt lol..

i do however have barely any fat on my legs, with veins in my calves etc...i have lost fat, but i can't say it was from GH...and thats my point...theres obv a huge diff of fat loss from pic 1 with love handles to pic 4...the fat loss that is there is probably simply from the AAS and diet that i was eating...but i know friends who are on gh and had abs no matter what...i had a friend who took serostim and ate pizza everynight and had shredded abs...not to say thats what should happen on gh, but shit, 6 months on 5iu im not totally impressed...

no offense taken from anyone...the pics aren't so great either, i should have taken better ones lol with a better camera, that was my camera phone...regardless, i shouldn't need certain camera angles or shadows to show if im shredded or not, and im not and i def should be

----------


## fossilfuel7

> well thats what im saying...had i been shredded to pieces with abs especially, i wouldn't even be posting any doubt lol..
> 
> i do however have barely any fat on my legs, with veins in my calves etc...i have lost fat, but i can't say it was from GH...and thats my point...theres obv a huge diff of fat loss from pic 1 with love handles to pic 4...the fat loss that is there is probably simply from the AAS and diet that i was eating...but i know friends who are on gh and had abs no matter what...i had a friend who took serostim and ate pizza everynight and had shredded abs...not to say thats what should happen on gh, but shit, 6 months on 5iu im not totally impressed...
> 
> no offense taken from anyone...the pics aren't so great either, i should have taken better ones lol with a better camera, that was my camera phone...regardless, i shouldn't need certain camera angles or shadows to show if im shredded or not, and im not and i def should be




I see HK had the nerve to mention that I broke communication??..what douchebag he is. He was well aware of the test results I had from the GH test I took and when I offered to do an IGF-1 test which happened to be a saliva test(which is just as accurate as a blood test) he tried to act like it wasn't legit..even though it is common knowledge in the medical community that those are the ways which you test.

This is the test I was going to do for him after two poor results with a GH test from my doctor.....http://estore.websitepros.com/1791782/Detail.bok?no=23

He is a liar and his product is inconsistent at best.

----------


## fossilfuel7

Also, I know of 5 other guys besides me and Lifegaurd102 who have had bad results with "His product" that he "stands by" so adamantly.

----------


## JuliusPleaser

well its obviously hes not gonna admit wrong lol...even if HK did swear by his product, he does claim that he buys directly from the factory...it is quite possible that he is not a "bad guy" and the factory in fact is a counterfit operation...i mean shit, there was a CNN special on how the chinese counterfit everything...even pharmaceutical drugs that are being MIXED IN with real pharmaceutical drugs in our country...imagine that shit...

i rememeber a joke from a comedian a while back, i forgot who, but he said "if u can flip america over it would say 'made in china'...lol

but i feel you fossil...it may be possible that in month two of my kit usage, i had real gh...but i still dont know what explains my awesome sleep and vivid dreams that i have today...that i cannot deny...i used to have trouble sleeping for years until ive been on rips...but then again u can look at my progress pics and clearly see that i should be more ripped...and my lack of shreddedness cannot be blamed on poor diet because i was on a clean diet...

my one friend was telling me that when a new line of gh comes out, it seems that they actually are great products at first to get a buzz and get out there...overtime, they start cutting the product and screwing us all over..then they come out with a NEWER product, same people diff name..and the process repeats...i guess its true...a new chinese GH comes out every 4 seconds...its ridiculous...who knows anymore, i wish i could just create my own gh like i used to make my own fina lol...

as for sides, i never really had any, but even on serostims i never had any sides...so sides aren't the best to gauge if u have real gh...or are it??? im gonna shoot 10ius of rips and see what happens...

anyway, i guess im gonna have to get serostim again...like my friend always told me, u get what u pay for in this game...and rips are dirt cheap, maybe becausey they are just dirt...i dont have any pharm grade sources yet, but if anyone wants to share one, shoot me a PM id appreciate it..thanks

----------


## QuieTSToRM33

The saga continues.

----------


## ssperka10

hytropin is that real stuff, the blue tops? I wanna run a Gh cycle during my football season tohave quicker recovery time. I dont want to put on size or gain strength just maybe maintain what I already have throughout the season. I will be running everyday and team will be liting twice a week during the season. Do you think 4IUS daily I could reach those goals Ilve talk about. Im 23 years old and weigh 230 pounds. At the level of FB i get urine testing by the ncca so of course GH needs to be real and undectable. I can get GH from anti aging clinic but they want three to four times as much money for as IF i ordered it if the net. I don't know what to do, so i am asking for your advice So i can order hyge tropin off the net or from antiagin clici get serano, omnitrope, and tevtrope? Looking around 4 IUs daily for 4 months? Which should i do and expect from something like this? Thank you for you help

----------


## JuliusPleaser

I just shot 10ius of my riptropin..

def feel hot and tingly...lol...maybe i just needed to up the dosage a bit...

ive been on 5ius for 6 months... maybe i need to go up to 8iu...we will see how i feel in the next 30 mins...i just shot it 10 mins ago

----------


## Xtralarg

> I just shot 10ius of my riptropin..
> 
> def feel hot and tingly...lol...maybe i just needed to up the dosage a bit...
> 
> ive been on 5ius for 6 months... maybe i need to go up to 8iu...we will see how i feel in the next 30 mins...i just shot it 10 mins ago


I cant ever remember feeling hot and tingly after a gh shot tbh, does that happen to you all the time?

----------


## JuliusPleaser

well no...the only time i ever went tingly in my life was 2ius of generic blue tops like 5 years ago when i first took gh...

i never ever since then ever got numb or tingly...

there was time i was taking pinwheel hyges...which was also during the time i was researching about whether pinwheel **********s were real or not, i shot literally two vials of pinwheels to see what would happen...i got very sleepy and that was it...this was after i had already finished two kits of it and this whole fake debate was a hot topic...i never took the 8iu tops tho so i never got a chance to see if they were gtg

this is why i took 10ius of rips just now...to put an end to if its real or not...i have to take back that i feel tingly..i feel more hot actually, like sweaty hot..like a slight cold sweat...which i though was a tingly sensation..it isn't...i also have a slight headache as if i was dehydrated...

regardless, this doesnt explain why i haven't lost way more fat during my cycle of rips...

----------


## Xtralarg

> well no...the only time i ever went tingly in my life was 2ius of generic blue tops like 5 years ago when i first took gh...
> 
> i never ever since then ever got numb or tingly...
> 
> there was time i was taking pinwheel hyges...which was also during the time i was researching about whether pinwheel **********s were real or not, i shot literally two vials of pinwheels to see what would happen...i got very sleepy and that was it...this was after i had already finished two kits of it and this whole fake debate was a hot topic...i never took the 8iu tops tho so i never got a chance to see if they were gtg
> 
> this is why i took 10ius of rips just now...to put an end to if its real or not...i have to take back that i feel tingly..i feel more hot actually, like sweaty hot..like a slight cold sweat...which i though was a tingly sensation..it isn't...i also have a slight headache as if i was dehydrated...
> 
> regardless, this doesnt explain why i haven't lost way more fat during my cycle of rips...


Man you haven't had much luck with gh, it must be frustrating!

The 8iu tops are gtg if they are genuine, I think they may be under dosed but are gh for sure.

I can't explain hot feeling but doesn't sound good. How's your BP?

----------


## frawnz

My source sent me a new kit of Rips and offered to pay for a blood test as he did with Julius and Fossil. I'm really not sure what I should do tho. Since I stopped taking the original Rips (which I had been on for about 1.5 months), I actually lost 6 pounds. My weight kept seeming to go up and up on the Rips, and I felt fat. I was feeling much thinner when I stopped, but now that I've started again on the new batch, I'm instantly bloating again and feel flabby/fat. 

I think I will finish out this kit, arrange for blood work and then go from there, but if the blood work results aren't drastically improved, I will ask for my money back and probably never try any HGH again.

----------


## fossilfuel7

> My source sent me a new kit of Rips and offered to pay for a blood test as he did with Julius and Fossil. I'm really not sure what I should do tho. Since I stopped taking the original Rips (which I had been on for about 1.5 months), I actually lost 6 pounds. My weight kept seeming to go up and up on the Rips, and I felt fat. I was feeling much thinner when I stopped, but now that I've started again on the new batch, I'm instantly bloating again and feel flabby/fat. 
> 
> I think I will finish out this kit, arrange for blood work and then go from there, but if the blood work results aren't drastically improved, I will ask for my money back and probably never try any HGH again.


He is offering me the same thing right now. I told him it's up to him and that I would be up for it even though after 6 kits I got nothing.

Maybe he will re label some Saizen as Rips so we get good results LOL....wouldn't that be something.

----------


## ssperka10

up some questions first. I'm about to spend some money and Im scared 1. i wont be taking enough or two that it will be fake

Sales man at a ANTI AGE clinic, this business is a legit spot, manifacture, producem and sell. was trying to tell me at my age 23, with there name brand serano, omnitropem and tevtrope at 1 IU I should see unreal results at 2 month and should run that to 6 to 12 months. 17 Iu seems like alot and 1 IU doesnt from what Im reading feel like enough but maybe there someone out there that could tell me that because of my age and how good this GH is that it is or isnt worth it. 

What Im looking for is a better sense of well being ( battle depression) stronger faster quickerm UNDECTABLE fo drug testing

Recovery Im looking for is to feel fresh hav my legs feel fresg while i lift at night after pratice

----------


## ssperka10

Has anyone ever heard of jus taking 1 IU for 5 days on two days off with reasonable results with 12 month program? Name Brand GH of the ones i posted upbove.

last question how does osmeone upgrade there forms status so that you can live chat with people?

----------


## Xtralarg

> My source sent me a new kit of Rips and offered to pay for a blood test as he did with Julius and Fossil. I'm really not sure what I should do tho. Since I stopped taking the original Rips (which I had been on for about 1.5 months), I actually lost 6 pounds. My weight kept seeming to go up and up on the Rips, and I felt fat. I was feeling much thinner when I stopped, but now that I've started again on the new batch, I'm instantly bloating again and feel flabby/fat. 
> 
> I think I will finish out this kit, arrange for blood work and then go from there, but if the blood work results aren't drastically improved, I will ask for my money back and probably never try any HGH again.


Sounds like its the mystery compound that everyone seems to be getting, some form of anti diuretic for sure...

----------


## Xtralarg

> Has anyone ever heard of jus taking 1 IU for 5 days on two days off with reasonable results with 12 month program? Name Brand GH of the ones i posted upbove.
> 
> last question how does osmeone upgrade there forms status so that you can live chat with people?


One iu won't do anything really, even the females are running 2ius.

Live chat is not available on this forum.

----------


## turk1968

I think the only real solution to this ,an expensive one at that , is for those regular hgh user to switch and try pharma grade for 6 months and then you will see. I have used ansomone and the "tops" up to 70 ius a week at the most but on average 30-40 ius per week so i have two weeks left on greens ,then i am away on holiday for 2 weeks then its pharma for me (god help my wallet!!!!) I used pharma hgh about 23 years ago !!! i think i ran 20ius a week so thats where i will start .Lets just see . 

So 20ius a week x 26 weeks = 520 ius at '#@# per ius = "**** ME!!" pounds sterling !! Oh well (as head hits desk with loud thud!! )

----------


## JuliusPleaser

i just spoke to my friends chemist the other night...he said that GH sides aren't a good way to gauge if its legit or not...also, he said, everynoe will reach differently to it, so it doesnt necessarily mean anyone should be anything at a certain point or time..

so maybe my body doesn't respond much to 5iu at all, even for being on 6 months..it would be the same if someone blew up on 250mg of test a week compared to someone doing 750...everyones body responds diff to these drugs...

he said the best thing to do is stop listening to everyone else, or what they had, or what sides they got, how they looked...i know people who got shredded in 2 months!...well not me, and thats is what happened to THAT person , wiht HIS body...

its quite possible we are all losing our minds, but for those who got their blood taken, maybe we are getting bunk shit...regardless, some of us are not...

my one source for gear has the pinwheel **********s, and has known his source for 7 years...my source is a Founder of a UGL... he lab is very popular and im sure most of u take it... he even told me there are 4 diff hyges running around and u think some stupid code is gonna make urs legit...he's right...anyone can make a stupid box and a site to match a code...

i guess its all about who ur source is...if HK is a good source, then we would have to assume his products are good, unless he himself is getting shafted without knowing...i know my gear source is gtg, but i think ive given the chinese enough of my $ for gh...i did howerver take my sources hyges, the pinwheel top, ididnt see much except when i took two vialsof it, i got really really sleepy (16iu) to see what happened...maybe his hyges were legit, but i never gave them a chance because i quickly swiched to rips...

either way, we must take into accound what my friends chemist said...everyone responds differently...andwe can't go off of what happens to anyone else..we must all find what works for ourselves...

my friend gave me his chemists gh just now...im about to shoot 5ius of it to see how i feel...its basically generic blue tops, however it has a silver label that says"

Recombinant Human Growth Hormone for Injection
Rhgh 191aa style
10iu/3.7mg/10ml vial
and a experiation dates

ill let u know how this generic shit is compared to rips in an hour

----------


## marcus300

> i just spoke to my friends chemist the other night...he said that GH sides aren't a good way to gauge if its legit or not...also, he said, everynoe will reach differently to it, so it doesnt necessarily mean anyone should be anything at a certain point or time..
> 
> so maybe my body doesn't respond much to 5iu at all, even for being on 6 months..it would be the same if someone blew up on 250mg of test a week compared to someone doing 750...everyones body responds diff to these drugs...
> 
> he said the best thing to do is stop listening to everyone else, or what they had, or what sides they got, how they looked...i know people who got shredded in 2 months!...well not me, and thats is what happened to THAT person , wiht HIS body...
> 
> its quite possible we are all losing our minds, but for those who got their blood taken, maybe we are getting bunk shit...regardless, some of us are not...
> 
> my one source for gear has the pinwheel **********s, and has known his source for 7 years...my source is a Founder of a UGL... he lab is very popular and im sure most of u take it... he even told me there are 4 diff hyges running around and u think some stupid code is gonna make urs legit...he's right...anyone can make a stupid box and a site to match a code...
> ...



China is the counterfeit capital of the world, if your happy buying their gh you carry on doing so but I advice you to buy some pharm grade gh not from china and see how you respond, Growth Hormone is expensive to make and once you have pharm grade you will know what quality is, dont be driven by price because your wasting your money IMHO. Do you have any idea what 5 ius of Pharm grade gh would do to you in 5 months? buy it and see and stop buying chinese crap.

They counterfeit everything, they even doing it with rec drugs for the 10th of the price do you really think they are sending you quality gh!! come on.

Pharm grade gh is expensive for a reason try it and see for yourself. If your friends with a chemist ask him to provide you with some Pharm grade instead of buying shit tops from china.

Also stay away from UGL gear, buy legit and you wont go wrong with quality or have any impurities

----------


## BJJ

*rHGH BRANDS QUALITY BLOOD CHECK*

IGF-1: *135* ng/ml [96 - 494]_____________*238*________________________________*461*_________________*520* (40' via IM: *521*)_______*144*
HGH: *0,3* ng/ml [0,0 - 10]_______________*11,1*______________*10,5*______________*22,2*________________*25,7* (40' via IM: *36,3*)______*3,3*

.................................................. ........*EuroHormones*
.................................................. .....................................*Generic Green*
.................................................. .................................................. .............*HardCoreGrowth*
.................................................. .................................................. ..............................................*Hyge.tropin*
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...................................*Somatrope*

*Notes:*
Injection time: 5:30 am (euroh./green/hardc.g.), 6 am (hyge./soma.)
Days on the same drug before testing: 7 (all four types), 3 (soma.)
Blood work time: 8:00 am (all five types)
Amount injected: 4 iu (euroh./green/soma.) - 5 iu (hardc.g./hyge.)
Injection site: umbilical (euroh.) - oblique (green/hardc.g./hyge./soma.)
Injection type: sub-q (all five types)

----------


## marcus300

> *rHGH BRANDS QUALITY BLOOD CHECK*
> 
> IGF-1: *135* ng/ml [96 - 494]_____________*238*________________________________*461*_________________*520* (40' via IM: *521*)_______*144*
> HGH: *0,3* ng/ml [0,0 - 10]_______________*11,1*______________*10,5*______________*22,2*________________*25,7* (40' via IM: *36,3*)______*3,3*
> 
> .................................................. ........*EuroHormones*
> .................................................. .....................................*Generic Green*
> .................................................. .................................................. .............*HardCoreGrowth*
> .................................................. .................................................. ..............................................*Hyge.tropin*
> ...


Whats your conculsion BJJ?

----------


## BJJ

^^^
I was scammed!!!

----------


## BJJ

Today I got my Hypertropin, I really want to see now...

----------


## marcus300

> Today I got my Hypertropin, I really want to see now...


Best of luck

----------


## Xtralarg

> i just spoke to my friends chemist the other night...he said that GH sides aren't a good way to gauge if its legit or not...also, he said, everynoe will reach differently to it, so it doesnt necessarily mean anyone should be anything at a certain point or time..
> so maybe my body doesn't respond much to 5iu at all, even for being on 6 months..it would be the same if someone blew up on 250mg of test a week compared to someone doing 750...everyones body responds diff to these drugs...
> 
> he said the best thing to do is stop listening to everyone else, or what they had, or what sides they got, how they looked...i know people who got shredded in 2 months!...well not me, and thats is what happened to THAT person , wiht HIS body...
> 
> its quite possible we are all losing our minds, but for those who got their blood taken, maybe we are getting bunk shit...regardless, some of us are not...
> 
> my one source for gear has the pinwheel **********s, and has known his source for 7 years...my source is a Founder of a UGL... he lab is very popular and im sure most of u take it... he even told me there are 4 diff hyges running around and u think some stupid code is gonna make urs legit...he's right...anyone can make a stupid box and a site to match a code...
> 
> ...


Youre right everyone does respond differently and sides are not the be all and end all, BUT let me tell you something that is 100% - if you took 5iu's of pharm grade for 6 months you would see a transformation - end of story.

The fact is that you cant trust China or sources there. They are out to make money and they will do so in the best way China knows how to, by counterfeiting stuff and selling it to the rest of the world...seriously now you need to realise this and stop kidding yourself. You say your source sold you the pinwheel hyges!!! Everyone knows they are total crap, UK customs seized a load shipped in direct from the manufacturer and they contained ZERO HGH....c'mon FFS what does that tell you about your source?

Now you have blue tops with some back street label on from a chemist, what country are you in? Im in the UK and there is not a cat in hells chance that any chemist here would even have 'blue tops' in his shop, they would have high quality pahrm grade and nothing else. 

This Chinese thing boils down to a few facts 

If you trust China then you really need to have a good chat with yourself, let me ask you this - if your child was ill would you give them medicine from China because it is cheap? I bet the answer is NO, and then ask yourself why and I bet the answer is because you dont trust them. 
I think that there is some GH coming out of China but its a lottery whether you get any or not. Even Gensi are coming out with ridiculous statements about their stuff being overdosed so you get more bang for your buck and they are supposed to be pahrm grade! Imagine Pfizer saying that about their Genotropin...I cant because they wouldnt, its medicine FFS, you dont overdose medicine!!

So if people want to keep sticking their heads in the sand and buying from China then I wish them all the best. If you cant see it now then you never will....or maybe when you waste another months wage and 6 months of your life finding out you will!

Im not having a dig at you im just tryiong to get people to realise what is obviously going on.

Your last point about finding out if your new gh is good in a hour, I dont get it, how will you know in an hour?

----------


## JuliusPleaser

how if i reacted diff to it in an hour...but i guess not lol...

im gonna try to find some pharm grade end of story

----------


## Xtralarg

> how if i reacted diff to it in an hour...but i guess not lol...
> 
> im gonna try to find some pharm grade end of story


I think that would be your best bet. 

Did you feel anything after the hour?

----------


## Sc0rch

> *rHGH BRANDS QUALITY BLOOD CHECK*
> 
> IGF-1: *135* ng/ml [96 - 494]_____________*238*________________________________*461*_________________*520* (40' via IM: *521*)_______*144*
> HGH: *0,3* ng/ml [0,0 - 10]_______________*11,1*______________*10,5*______________*22,2*________________*25,7* (40' via IM: *36,3*)______*3,3*
> 
> .................................................. ........*EuroHormones*
> .................................................. .....................................*Generic Green*
> .................................................. .................................................. .............*HardCoreGrowth*
> .................................................. .................................................. ..............................................*Hyge.tropin*
> ...


Don't understand the way this data is presented, but I was always wondering if hardcore growth was any good? Your results say no?

----------


## P3rf3ctionist

....

----------


## P3rf3ctionist

....

----------


## Glycomann

> Today I got my Hypertropin, I really want to see now...


IGF-1 will creep up that much just on AAS without an AI or SERM (SERMS and type 1 AIs knock it down).  If you were running AAS then could just be that or it could be some GH but at about 1/10 or 1/5 the dose.

----------


## JuliusPleaser

My one friend has nutropin AQ

he told me on 3ius a day he saw results in 2 weeks, and has been on for 3 months...

he is now currently 5% bodyfat...

I told him about the riptropin drama and all he said was, when u are ready to get real results call to him... lol

he was saying that AQ is more potent than chinese iu per iu ratio...he said that each iu of nutropin is like 3ius of **********..

ive heard this alot but it makes no sense...i ugess what people are really trying to say is, ********** and chinese crap at 3iu is really 1iu of quality gh with a bunch of crap mixed into it...basically underdosed...

i might try one kit of this...it will take me 3 kits a month to be on nutropin at 3ius a day 5/2 will give me a littler over a month... i guess only way to find out the truth is to spend the money...its gonna cost alot to find out but maybe i will give it a shot...

----------


## BJJ

> Don't understand the way this data is presented, but I was always wondering if hardcore growth was any good? Your results say no?


My results say it was better than all the others except Hyge.

----------


## 2gethuge

> My results say it was better than all the others except Hyge.


Which hyg? 8 iu top or pinwheel ?

----------


## Xtralarg

> Which hyg? 8 iu top or pinwheel ?


8iu, pinwheel are fake and contain no gh.

----------


## JuliusPleaser

after taking 5ius of two days with the new blue tops i got from my friend...

ive been dehydrated and feel like i have a headache...

i also look leaner, almost like i lost water...maybe this is a dueritic like u were suggesting

----------


## yesimussing

> 8iu, pinwheel are fake and contain no gh.


So is this definite? Only 8iu is gtg? All pinwheels are bad? 

I'll give you my experience. I used about 6months worth of expire humatrope(I believe it was by lily) and had incredible results. I ran out of the source that provided the stuff to me and the only thing found was pinwheels. I didn't felt the same with the newly acquired gh. So when even expired gear is still better than the other stuff. There's something wrong. Just my .02.

----------


## Xtralarg

> So is this definite? Only 8iu is gtg? All pinwheels are bad? 
> 
> I'll give you my experience. I used about 6months worth of expire humatrope(I believe it was by lily) and had incredible results. I ran out of the source that provided the stuff to me and the only thing found was pinwheels. I didn't felt the same with the newly acquired gh. So when even expired gear is still better than the other stuff. There's something wrong. Just my .02.


Amongst other info which I have read, one of the more convincing reports about pin wheel tops being rubbish was one a British newspaper that reported a seizure of HGH, the subsequent investigation revealed the website which the importer used to order from turned out to be the 'official' pin wheel one. After analysing the continents of the vials British customs found them to contain zero HGH.

----------


## FCVtec

I was on 8iu pinwheel and my igf came back in range at 263 i think. I posted that. They are fake for sure. Seems like the 8iu tops are gtg.

----------


## yesimussing

I'm just gonna bite the bullet and get the pharma grade stuff. There's also the advantage of ussing less iu's. Thank u guys.

----------


## goose

Me and that bad boy PINN-went through this 5 years ago with IGF.Man we blew several thousands to find out it does not work.Pinn impersonated being an Undergraduate PHD student talking to some of the top peptide Specialists in the world.I still have some of the emails.
Its a shame Redbaron does not post anymore here,but I have emailed him on this issue.The MAJORITY of GH out of China is fake. Mostly powdered egg whites,this is fact.
Other problem is even if the HGH is good its quite fragile so when it gets back to you from china it may be useless.
With IGF people thought that they gained muscle,it was water,it acted as a GDA.That is what we gained.IGF was advertised for 1-2 pounds of muscle gain in a month.

The tanning agent melanotan works,no question here,that is quite a complex peptide to produce.

Never tried MFG but that is junk too.

One guy who could solve this Mystery also is DATBTRUE he does not post here (other boards) the guy is a stud.HE IS THE GUY TO GO TO.

But im convinced the HGH I use is legit,but to be 100% its needs to be tested.

----------


## Vitruvian-Man

> One guy who could solve this Mystery also is *DATBTRUE* he does not post here (other boards) the guy is a stud.HE IS THE GUY TO GO TO.


He knows an incredible amount about peptides and HGH. 

He has helped me tremendously in the past. 

-VM

----------


## marcus300

> *But im convinced the HGH I use is legit,but to be 100% its needs to be tested*.


Utter rubbish, unless the gh he sent me is different than what your using.

But your correct it needs testing to be 100% but I can assure you ive had plenty of pharm garde and i know my own body and the Chinese gh is rubbish especially that crap from the guy who you use.

----------


## goose

> Utter rubbish, unless the gh he sent me is different than what your using.
> 
> My old friend.
> 
> But your correct it needs testing to be 100% but I can assure you ive had plenty of pharm garde and i know my own body and the Chinese gh is rubbish especially that crap from the guy who you use.


I have enjoyed your posts here.One of the few great threads that have been produced on this boards for years...

Truly respect your experience here,and agree with your ethos on chinese HGH.Looking forward getting other views on this...The best HGH I have ran is jino 5 years ago,never done proper pharm grade.

I love the HGH I use,so does a few of swifto friends that use the same guy.

IF we can get a few numbers here and combine get something tested-to cut costs would be a great idea.like 50 $ per person would be great.

----------


## BG

^^^^I myself havent used GH as good as those Jin's. The blues and reds didnt even compare and Im on Hyge's right now (8iu tops) and Im not sure what i think. I know Jin's at 5iu's ed gave me terrible sides, I started the Hyge's at 4iu's right from the get go and really havent had any sides yet.

I heard that the red and blues only tested to be 6.1 or so iu's per vial. So if you think they are 10, break down your dosage your probably hardly taking much if any at all. This is my last try with anything generic, I balked right before the Hyges at buying Pharma, I had to try Hyge's one last time before spending that big money.

----------


## Xtralarg

> ^^^^I myself havent used GH as good as those Jin's. The blues and reds didnt even compare and Im on Hyge's right now (8iu tops) and Im not sure what i think. I know Jin's at 5iu's ed gave me terrible sides, I started the Hyge's at 4iu's right from the get go and really havent had any sides yet.
> 
> I heard that the red and blues only tested to be 6.1 or so iu's per vial. So if you think they are 10, break down your dosage your probably hardly taking much if any at all. This is my last try with anything generic, I balked right before the Hyges at buying Pharma, I had to try Hyge's one last time before spending that big money.


I am running the 8iu tops as well, I think they are vastly underdosed. I am currently waiting for a delivery of hypertropin which gensci claim to be overdosed at 12ius per vial and am hopeful that they are true to their word. If they turn out to be underdosed as well then I will go back tp pharm grade and pay the price.

----------


## BG

> I am running the 8iu tops as well, I think they are vastly underdosed. I am currently waiting for a delivery of hypertropin which gensci claim to be overdosed at 12ius per vial and am hopeful that they are true to their word. If they turn out to be underdosed as well then I will go back tp pharm grade and pay the price.


This is the thing....Ive used pretty much all the Gh's, Jin's, Brown's, Blues (OG),Hyge's (OG), the new Reds, Blues and Hyge's. Now I as ran these in order the sides decreased, I never had the side effects get as bad as the first time. Now one would probably think it's because the quality decreased but I think it my actually be a tolerance has been built up. Its kinda happened with every chemical Ive ever dabbled with........it's just not as good the second or third time......I always seem to say ....man the first time I tried that...wow !!

Now Im sure a lot of those Generics are shit, we would probably be horrified if we knew what we were injecting into ourselves, but I think these 8iu's may be alright. I Seem to be getting some decent results. I think we are to stuck on "sides" being the ruler if something is legit or not. Man back in the day, a few shots of tren and I was the devil !! No sleep, nasty dreams, holy shit!! But now I can run it, after a while it starts to catch up with me, but not like the first few times.

I should be able to see with these Hyge's. This is all Im taking right now so in 3 or so weeks I should really be getting some results. I may even throw in a shot during mid day to get my 3 shots ed in like I did with the Jins, boy I miss being dedicated  :Wink:  .

All in all, with Chinese generics there's a very good chance your not getting what you payed for, it's sad, but we are suckers for the taking.

----------


## Hazard

I'm glad we got some new faces in here too..... 

I'd be down for throwing some cash in to get some tested if we were all using the same HGH lol..... while i'm sure some of us are using the same source..... not all of us are. What good would testing the gh from another source do?

~Haz~

----------


## FCVtec

I wish I had the option to go to pharm grade but is unavailable. I am gonna get some kefeis and do some more blood work. At least they use to make my fingertips tingle and all the other sides. Maybe those will give me a satisfactory blood exam result.... At 5iu ED what should one's IGF level be in a blood test on pharm grade?? At least 350?? 400+?? 

-Thanks

----------


## Spartans09

FCV- I just tested my generic chineese at 4IU's and it came back at 661 for my IGF-1 level.

----------


## FCVtec

Understood.

----------


## JuliusPleaser

hey guys...

if u have been reading then u know my story.. been on rips for 6months, didn't see much results...

my friend gave me generic blue tops with silver labels...ive taken 20ius total and i already seemed leaner!...could be the duretic effect,as we suspect they are putting those compounds in instead of gh?...has anyone ever taken these before...?

let me know if u have, and what ur experience was...my friend gets it from his personal chemist, who knows his shit...and actually makes myfriend (a bodybuilder) all his gear....i def think i felt more with these silver labels than the rips ive been on...

----------


## Xtralarg

> hey guys...
> 
> if u have been reading then u know my story.. been on rips for 6months, didn't see much results...
> 
> my friend gave me generic blue tops with silver labels...ive taken 20ius total and i already seemed leaner!...could be the duretic effect,as we suspect they are putting those compounds in instead of gh?...has anyone ever taken these before...?
> 
> let me know if u have, and what ur experience was...my friend gets it from his personal chemist, who knows his shit...and actually makes myfriend (a bodybuilder) all his gear....i def think i felt more with these silver labels than the rips ive been on...


What does it say on the labels?

20IU's gh would not make you leaner! If only it was that easy lol

----------


## Xtralarg

> This is the thing....Ive used pretty much all the Gh's, Jin's, Brown's, Blues (OG),Hyge's (OG), the new Reds, Blues and Hyge's. Now I as ran these in order the sides decreased, I never had the side effects get as bad as the first time. Now one would probably think it's because the quality decreased but I think it my actually be a tolerance has been built up. Its kinda happened with every chemical Ive ever dabbled with........it's just not as good the second or third time......I always seem to say ....man the first time I tried that...wow !!
> 
> Now Im sure a lot of those Generics are shit, we would probably be horrified if we knew what we were injecting into ourselves, but I think these 8iu's may be alright. I Seem to be getting some decent results. I think we are to stuck on "sides" being the ruler if something is legit or not. Man back in the day, a few shots of tren and I was the devil !! No sleep, nasty dreams, holy shit!! But now I can run it, after a while it starts to catch up with me, but not like the first few times.
> 
> I should be able to see with these Hyge's. This is all Im taking right now so in 3 or so weeks I should really be getting some results. I may even throw in a shot during mid day to get my 3 shots ed in like I did with the Jins, boy I miss being dedicated  .
> 
> All in all, with Chinese generics there's a very good chance your not getting what you payed for, it's sad, but we are suckers for the taking.


How long have you been on the Hyge's for?

----------


## fossilfuel7

> hey guys...
> 
> if u have been reading then u know my story.. been on rips for 6months, didn't see much results...
> 
> my friend gave me generic blue tops with silver labels...ive taken 20ius total and i already seemed leaner!...could be the duretic effect,as we suspect they are putting those compounds in instead of gh?...has anyone ever taken these before...?
> 
> let me know if u have, and what ur experience was...my friend gets it from his personal chemist, who knows his shit...and actually makes myfriend (a bodybuilder) all his gear....i def think i felt more with these silver labels than the rips ive been on...


I have seen those offered before and that source no longer has them...don't no why.

Hope you have some luck with them...unlike the Rips we had.

I also want to mention that I had horrible Arthritis like pain in both hands while I was on the Rips and it was definitely not an indicator of legitimacy in my case. 
I mean it got so bad that I could not make a fist and my fingers would even lock shut if I tried hard enough. It didn't matter if I was using 3 ius or 10 ius per day...it stayed the same until I stopped. I don't know what kind of fillers they are using but it makes me wonder.

----------


## Xtralarg

> I have seen those offered before and that source no longer has them...don't no why.
> 
> Hope you have some luck with them...unlike the Rips we had.
> 
> I also want to mention that I had horrible Arthritis like pain in both hands while I was on the Rips and it was definitely not an indicator of legitimacy in my case. 
> I mean it got so bad that I could not make a fist and my fingers would even lock shut if I tried hard enough. It didn't matter if I was using 3 ius or 10 ius per day...it stayed the same until I stopped. I don't know what kind of fillers they are using but it makes me wonder.


Those symptoms are exactly the same as I experienced when I was holding vast ammounts of water and my BP rocketed up to 160/100 with a pulse of 100bpm. THis was after about 3 months and when I stopped the sides slowly went way but they took a good while, whatever it is they are putting in those vials is very dangerous and could result in serious health problems IMHO.

----------


## JuliusPleaser

it says...

recombinant human growth hormone for injection

RHGH 191aa style
10iu/3.7mg/1.0mg vial
20091224
20111223

..i meant that i was instantly leaner as if i lost water!...not fat...

i took 5iu for 4 days... im sitll taking my riptropins until we figure this whole mystery out but once i get my Nutropin AQ ill let u know the diff LOL...and if my source is from an Email ill let everyone know and I'll PM everyone who wants it... waiting on my friend to find out

----------


## JuliusPleaser

> I have seen those offered before and that source no longer has them...don't no why.
> 
> Hope you have some luck with them...unlike the Rips we had.
> 
> I also want to mention that I had horrible Arthritis like pain in both hands while I was on the Rips and it was definitely not an indicator of legitimacy in my case. 
> I mean it got so bad that I could not make a fist and my fingers would even lock shut if I tried hard enough. It didn't matter if I was using 3 ius or 10 ius per day...it stayed the same until I stopped. I don't know what kind of fillers they are using but it makes me wonder.


isn't that a good sign...i didn't get ONE side except month 2, my thumb bone throbbed for a few days... i think we are going insane here...

i mean if they did throw dueritics in the GH and people are taking 10ius, wouldn't we die since duiretics are very very dangerous?...

if they are putting hcg in the vials, shouldn't are balls be sore?

either way, im getting the damn Nutropin...i guess my friend was right...u get what u pay for... and rips or DIRT cheap, so maybe they are DIRT. lol

but i swear my friends said they were good...some came back to me to buy more... i dont ****in know anymore...maybe 5ius for 6 months i built a tolerance...who knows...either way ill let u know the diff from pharm grade when i get it...

----------


## BG

> How long have you been on the Hyge's for?


Almost a month, so a few more weeks I should definitly be able to tell.

----------


## AndriodLee

> This is the thing....Ive used pretty much all the Gh's, Jin's, Brown's, Blues (OG),Hyge's (OG), the new Reds, Blues and Hyge's. Now I as ran these in order the sides decreased, I never had the side effects get as bad as the first time. Now one would probably think it's because the quality decreased but I think it my actually be a tolerance has been built up. Its kinda happened with every chemical Ive ever dabbled with........it's just not as good the second or third time......I always seem to say ....man the first time I tried that...wow !!
> 
> Now Im sure a lot of those Generics are shit, we would probably be horrified if we knew what we were injecting into ourselves, but I think these 8iu's may be alright. I Seem to be getting some decent results. I think we are to stuck on "sides" being the ruler if something is legit or not. Man back in the day, a few shots of tren and I was the devil !! No sleep, nasty dreams, holy shit!! But now I can run it, after a while it starts to catch up with me, but not like the first few times.
> 
> I should be able to see with these Hyge's. This is all Im taking right now so in 3 or so weeks I should really be getting some results. I may even throw in a shot during mid day to get my 3 shots ed in like I did with the Jins, boy I miss being dedicated  .
> 
> All in all, with Chinese generics there's a very good chance your not getting what you payed for, it's sad, but we are suckers for the taking.


I hate to admit this but your prob right dood... Chinese generics are most likely shit. Seems like every other day i read something in the paper, or online about a toxic chinese product. Today I read a warning about health supplements produced in china.The bad thing is that most of us have 500-1000 dollars invested already and it's hard to suck that up. I'm going to finish up the last of mine and move on to another brand. Sucks, but I hate wasting money. Lesson learned for me. I suggest most that everyone else stop going generic too. Who knows what's in those vials.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Almost a month, so a few more weeks I should definitly be able to tell.


Let me know how you go on please

----------


## fossilfuel7

> Those symptoms are exactly the same as I experienced when I was holding vast ammounts of water and my BP rocketed up to 160/100 with a pulse of 100bpm. THis was after about 3 months and when I stopped the sides slowly went way but they took a good while, whatever it is they are putting in those vials is very dangerous and could result in serious health problems IMHO.


This is exactly why I have made up my mind that I will not purchase Chinese GH anymore and will just dabble with some AAS until I can afford Pharm grade GH(maybe next year).

My doctor does hormone replacement therapy and when I confronted him last year with the possibility that I may take Chinese GH, he mentioned about all of the fakes out there and that I could not be sure what I was injecting into my body...and I kind of blew him off thinking yeah, yeah, I've got a source though.
A bit naive wasn't I.

----------


## JuliusPleaser

I think if u can still get legit Jintropin, that is still good to go...

I was also researching Mexican Gh, a brand called Yelits 4iu from Rumsa, they have yellow tops...almost as expensive as Nutropin and Humatrope

ive never really heard of anyone taking mexican gh in the community tho...

maybe we should start taking GH from other countries...

I was talking to the owner of my gym today at Golds...he was telling me abck in the day they used to send all Jintropins with dry ice to keep it could..

its quite possibly our sources have gotten so lazy, they literally have destroyed all there products by not keeping them in a cool temperature...just imagine how much crap our kits go thru, from factories, to post offices, to the plane ride over from china, then thru customs, then more post offices, on trucks, to ur local post office, then to u... its impossible to know what temperature they plane was, or the trucks, or even if they were on palates in the scolding sun...the fact is, i think shipping has ALOT to do with it..

from what ive read, it seems the only good things were jins and the rest of the chinese stuff was "less" potent...maybe because they were never cared for like the jins...ive never seen my rips in dry ice, nor hyges, or any kits...

just a thought..

----------


## JuliusPleaser

xtralarg i sent u a PM man, edit

----------


## Xtralarg

> I think if u can still get legit Jintropin, that is still good to go...
> 
> I was also researching Mexican Gh, a brand called Yelits 4iu from Rumsa, they have yellow tops...almost as expensive as Nutropin and Humatrope
> 
> ive never really heard of anyone taking mexican gh in the community tho...
> 
> maybe we should start taking GH from other countries...
> 
> I was talking to the owner of my gym today at Golds...he was telling me abck in the day they used to send all Jintropins with dry ice to keep it could..
> ...


Your man at golds is correct they did used to send stuff in cool boxes due to the fragile nature of gh, these days though most companies or at least the chinese ones (again very suspect!) claim that the product is stable enough to sit at room temp for 28 days or so and will withstand the transit process. Your point about it being damaged during transportation is indeed valid and has been mentioned before, but all gh has had to go thru this process to reach foreign destinations so I guess that it a guess as to weather it gets damaged or at least to what extent....

----------


## Matt

^^ This is the reason why we need to have it tested, my guess is that its either massively under dosed or its just not gh in the first place...

----------


## Xtralarg

Most of it is crap, it has taken weeks and weeks for my BP to get back to normal after stopping generic crap, I have said it before and I will say it again, what the Chinese are putting in the vials is dangerous and the majority of stuff leaving their shores is not gh.

Re. the testing - It is clear that its just not going to happen because of the cost involved. It is too expensive and nobody is going to pay 1000's to get a proper lab to test the product when they could spend that money on pahrm grade and know they have real gh.

Facts- HGH does not make your body blow up like a balloon for weeks on end and it certainly does not send your BP thru the roof. 

The Chinese are able to mimic the sides of HGH by making your body hold water as this also gives you CTS. 

Its so obvious what they are doing but for some reason people just wont listen and continue to live as mushrooms.

All I can say is buy some western pharm grade and you will understand, if you choose to carry on with Chinese generic then I wish you all the best.

----------


## fossilfuel7

I believe most of the GH comes from China in a Semi truck container on a cargo ship and it takes most of those ships anywhere from 2 to 4 weeks to get to the US depending on what is on that particular ship.
Then it will sit in customs for 3-4 days as well.
This would also be the easiest way to avoid inspection because due to it being in bulk containers and not to arouse suspicion.
Customs just does not have the time to inspect 100's of containers on every ship except by Xray and they are not looking for vials of GH when they scan the containers with that device.

----------


## fossilfuel7

> most of it is crap, it has taken weeks and weeks for my bp to get back to normal after stopping generic crap, i have said it before and i will say it again, what the chinese are putting in the vials is dangerous and the majority of stuff leaving their shores is not gh.
> 
> Re. The testing - it is clear that it’s just not going to happen because of the cost involved. It is too expensive and nobody is going to pay 1000's to get a proper lab to test the product when they could spend that money on pahrm grade and know they have real gh.
> 
> Facts- hgh does not make your body blow up like a balloon for weeks on end and it certainly does not send your bp thru the roof. 
> 
> The chinese are able to mimic the sides of hgh by making your body hold water as this also gives you cts. 
> 
> It’s so obvious what they are doing but for some reason people just won’t listen and continue to live as mushrooms.
> ...


The truth.

----------


## Hazard

OK..... I'm in a position where I can spend $500 to have my HGH tested. Problem is..... they want a sample to compare it to. If not.... it costs $1000 LOL

I wanna get this stuff tested.... it's pissin me off.

~Haz~

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## BJJ

> OK..... I'm in a position where I can spend $500 to have my HGH tested. Problem is..... they want a sample to compare it to. If not.... it costs $1000 LOL
> 
> I wanna get this stuff tested.... it's pissin me off.
> 
> ~Haz~


Would you be available if I had sent you 1 vial of Hypertropin and 250 USD, to go to that lab and run the test?

In this case, at least you would know my rHGH is legit and since it is the most famous source in China, I believe you will not have any problems to shift yours for the one I am using.

----------


## Hazard

> Would you be available if I had sent you 1 vial of Hypertropin and 250 USD, to go to that lab and run the test?
> 
> In this case, at least you would know my rHGH is legit and since it is the most famous source in China, I believe you will not have any problems to shift yours for the one I am using.


BJJ I will be in touch with you. I'm going to send Notsmall a PM - He dealt with this testing lab. I wanna make sure i'll have everything i'll need for them before I go ahead and commit to it.

Thanks

~Haz~

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## Hazard

Actually..... i'll post the letter that they sent me..... this way we all know what we need. Give me 1 sec to pull it up.....

~Haz~

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## Xtralarg

> Actually..... i'll post the letter that they sent me..... this way we all know what we need. Give me 1 sec to pull it up.....
> 
> ~Haz~


Good work.

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## Hazard

Here is the letter they sent me..... Upon reading it again I think i'm going to have to call them and get an exact total. We may not need another vial of HGH..... they just want a standard to compare the one we're testing. 

the only thing i'm worried about is they are US based. You guys think there can be any reprocussions for me sending them HGH?

here's the email:

Mr. X,

We can verify the contents in the vial. We would typically require 1 vial. The testing cost is $500. We ask that, if possible, you provide a reference standard for testing. A portion of a previously tested lot will suffice. If we have to purchase the standard, the cost will be additional to the $500 above. Please let me know if I can answer any additional questions or if you would prefer a formal quote. I have attached a PDF file with more information about ARL. We are a cGMP/GLP compliant laboratory and are certified ISO 17025:2005. ARL is also registered with the FDA and DEA. We look forward to receiving your business. Please also visit www.arlok.com for more information. 

Thank you,

Kathy Heatherly, MSFS
Technical Sales & Support
Analytical Research Laboratories
840 Research Parkway, Ste. 546
Oklahoma City, OK

phone: (405)271-1144
fax: (405)271-1174
[email protected]

----------


## Hazard

I think i'm going to send her an email with exactly what I want done and what it's going to cost.....

~Haz~

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## Hazard

OK - I just emailed them and i'm awaiting a reply for an exact quote. I just told them that i'm prescribed HGH for replacement therapy and my insurance wont cover pharma grade so i've been using generic hgh from china. I wanted to get it tested because I hear a lot of the chinese HGH is fake..... 

there was more detail lol but I'm just givin you the jist of it.....

~Haz~

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## Xtralarg

Let them purchase the HGH to compare yours with, otherwise they might be testing crap v crap!

At least they will have access to pharm grade.

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## Hazard

> Let them purchase the HGH to compare yours with, otherwise they might be testing crap v crap!
> 
> At least they will have access to pharm grade.


1 vial of pharm grade can't be that expensive LOL.... so i'm hoping it's going to be close to $500.....

I'll let you know what they say when they email me back.

~Haz~

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## Xtralarg

Do you know exactly what they will be testing for?

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## Hazard

> Do you know exactly what they will be testing for?


Nope but I told them I'm looking to find out exactly what is in the vial and if it is rHGH - how many iu's.

~Haz~

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## Sc0rch

I don't know I really like my red tops. They've worked great. My BP has gone down, I've dropped a waist size, I've healed up nicely, my vision is better, my skin is better, I feel great, etc..

When I first started 9 months ago I went to 3iu too fast. I had all of the sides most notably swollen feet and hands and mild hedaches. During the afternoon I wanted to sleep. I installed a new garage door opener in 70 degree weather and I have never sweated like that in my life. It was very strange the amount I was sweating. Come to find out sweating is a side as well.

Turns out that even working my way up slowly over 4 months I couldn't get past 3.5iu. It was crippling me. Now I just use 2iu. I still get mild stiffness in my hands and feet.

Since now I know that hardcore growth is good I'm going to get a kit and compare the feeling to my red tops. I don't think all Chinese are fake, mine seem to work too well.

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## Hazard

> I don't know I really like my red tops. They've worked great. My BP has gone down, I've dropped a waist size, I've healed up nicely, my vision is better, my skin is better, I feel great, etc..
> 
> When I first started 9 months ago I went to 3iu too fast. I had all of the sides most notably swollen feet and hands and mild hedaches. During the afternoon I wanted to sleep. I installed a new garage door opener in 70 degree weather and I have never sweated like that in my life. It was very strange the amount I was sweating. Come to find out sweating is a side as well.
> 
> Turns out that even working my way up slowly over 4 months I couldn't get past 3.5iu. It was crippling me. Now I just use 2iu. I still get mild stiffness in my hands and feet.
> 
> Since now I know that hardcore growth is good I'm going to get a kit and compare the feeling to my red tops. I don't think all Chinese are fake, mine seem to work too well.


thats how i felt about mine..... i'm not saying mine are fake but i need to be 100% sure for my piece of mind.

I get cts sides every now and then when i manipulate my dosage yet I don't retain water. I'm fairly lean right now and probably look the best I ever have.... I too am sweating like crazy..... and even my fathers IGF levels came back in the 600's after a week on 4ius compared to high 300's from his last blood work.

I still can't say for sure that it's real and i'm not going to continue taking something that may well end up harming me. I wanna be sure......

~Haz~

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## Sc0rch

Yeah thats a good point, there could always be something in addition to HGH in the vials. But I mean why would a legit HGH manufacturer risk their reputation by putting something in the vials that would harm someone? They've already invested a ton of cash to make a good product and doing that doesn't make good business sense. Once the word got out they'd probably go out of business and lose investment capitol.

----------


## Hazard

> Yeah thats a good point, there could always be something in addition to HGH in the vials. But I mean why would a legit HGH manufacturer risk their reputation by putting something in the vials that would harm someone? They've already invested a ton of cash to make a good product and doing that doesn't make good business sense. Once the word got out they'd probably go out of business and lose investment capitol.


One would think..... but look at how many of us are sitll buying the generics even though we have reason not to trust many of them LOL

Why put 10iu's of HGH in the vial when you can put 2iu's and fillers. Now you can get 5 vials compared to one. The best part is..... the guy you sell the HGH to wont be able to tell because the fillers you use actually mimic HGH's side effects.

Idunno..... I would like to think mine are real by the way I feel and look. I'm not guessing anymore tho.... i'll be the 1st to test my shit out and see what happens.

~Haz~

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## JuliusPleaser

gentlemen, i found the answers to all our problems...

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## Hazard

PM sent..... please enlighten me

~Haz~

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## BJJ

> PM sent..... please enlighten me
> 
> ~Haz~


...x2

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## Hazard

SOB..... this is what they send me back.....

Mr. X,

Thank you for the follow up. I will provide you with a quote today.
Please provide your full contact information so that I can include this
on the quote. Due to the nature of the compound HGH, the testing may be
a bit more expensive than you expect, however, it may be worth it to
know the product you are taking is exactly what you need.

Thank you,

Kathy


What the hell..... Idunno if I want to provide them with my information.....

~Haz~

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## Xtralarg

Is there a price change?

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## Hazard

> Is there a price change?


Idunno..... I can't get a quote until I give them my personal information.

~Haz~

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## Xtralarg

> Idunno..... I can't get a quote until I give them my personal information.
> 
> ~Haz~


Didn't they say it would be $500?

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## Matt

> SOB..... this is what they send me back.....
> 
> Mr. X,
> 
> Thank you for the follow up. I will provide you with a quote today.
> Please provide your full contact information so that I can include this
> on the quote. Due to the nature of the compound HGH, the testing may be
> a bit more expensive than you expect, however, it may be worth it to
> know the product you are taking is exactly what you need.
> ...


Do you not have a name and address you can give them you a bogus one,??

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## Hazard

> Didn't they say it would be $500?


thats what they said initially..... yes

~Haz~

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## Xtralarg

> thats what they said initially..... yes
> 
> ~Haz~


Strange why they have changed things all of a sudden?

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## Hazard

> Strange why they have changed things all of a sudden?


Yeah idunno.... i'll give them a fake address and phone number tomorrow - then find out what the cost is.

~Haz~

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## fossilfuel7

> gentlemen, i found the answers to all our problems...


Can it not be posted on the open forum?

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## Spartans09

Haz- I would be a little cautious with this U.S. Companies licenscing with the FDA and the DEA. Both would really not be happy if they new it was a controlled substance comming in from china. I'm not sure what ethical reporting responsibilities this company may have at risk of losing licensing. Tread lightly here IMHO.

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## BG

I can get some sero to get tested if need be.......

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## marcus300

> I have enjoyed your posts here.One of the few great threads that have been produced on this boards for years...
> 
> Truly respect your experience here,and agree with your ethos on chinese HGH.Looking forward getting other views on this...The best HGH I have ran is jino 5 years ago,never done proper pharm grade.
> 
> I love the HGH I use,so does a few of swifto friends that use the same guy.
> 
> IF we can get a few numbers here and combine get something tested-to cut costs would be a great idea.like 50 $ per person would be great.


Why would anyone believe a word you say when you try and protray yourself as someone else?

Those pictures in your album and in your avatar are not you so why would you tell people they are?

Also why would you sell me fake hgh from China?

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## Hazard

> Haz- I would be a little cautious with this U.S. Companies licenscing with the FDA and the DEA. Both would really not be happy if they new it was a controlled substance comming in from china. I'm not sure what ethical reporting responsibilities this company may have at risk of losing licensing. Tread lightly here IMHO.


Exactly..... Idunno what to do. I'm sure they're going to want to mail the results also instead of emailing them. If thats the case - they will need my real address. 

~Haz~

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## JuliusPleaser

here a post someone responded to me about my hgh protocal from another forum...got me thinking and it makes total sense...

--- rips in 6 months should yield some noticeable improvements but for everyone it's different. There is one problem in your protocol I will address later in this post. 

5/2 protocol doesn't make any sense to me at all. If you are trying to save money, it makes less sense because you are leaving out 28% of the days you should be taking it to get results. Why not just go 4/3?

Personally I would go 7 days a week and I wouldn't start hgh 1 day before I was ready to run it 7 days a week for a year+. 

What results were you expecting from hgh in 3.5 months? If you use the 5/2 protocol you can deduct around 50+ days right? 

6mo. - 2.5mo. = 3.5 months of hgh use.

minimum of 4iu's a day of quality hgh is as low as I would go. ----

basically ive technically been on rips for only 3.5 months, no wonder im not impressed, tho i have seen some changes... i might just stick this out after all and do 5iu ED

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## Matt

Had my blood pressure taken today, 180/100. Im sure this is down to the gh...

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## Xtralarg

> Had my blood pressure taken today, 180/100. Im sure this is down to the gh...


Fvck! That is very serious and not something that HGH would do to you no matter how much you take or who you are. WTF have you been injecting cos it is'nt HGH thats 100% guranteed.

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## Hazard

> Had my blood pressure taken today, 180/100. Im sure this is down to the gh...


jesus man! What else are you running?

I can't confirm whether my HGH is real or not but my BP never went that high..... not even on 8iu's, 750 test, and 2mg's methyl tren ......

~Haz~

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## Matt

> Fvck! That is very serious and not something that HGH would do to you no matter how much you take or who you are. WTF have you been injecting cos it is'nt HGH thats 100% guranteed.


Yep, i dont know wtf this shit is but ive just thrown 600ius of the crap in the bin..

This stuff is going to kill some one...

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## Xtralarg

> Yep, i dont know wtf this shit is but ive just thrown 600ius of the crap in the bin..
> 
> This stuff is going to kill some one...


Dont bin it demand your money back.

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## Matt

> jesus man! What else are you running?
> 
> I can't confirm whether my HGH is real or not but my BP never went that high..... not even on 8iu's, 750 test, and 2mg's methyl tren ......
> 
> ~Haz~


500mgs of test and 600mgs of tren. Ive run much higher doses and never had my BP come back that high..

Infact half way through my last cycle my BP was normal and i was on 750mgs of test and 1000mgs of tren...

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## marcus300

> Had my blood pressure taken today, 180/100. Im sure this is down to the gh...





> Yep, i dont know wtf this shit is but ive just thrown 600ius of the crap in the bin..
> 
> This stuff is going to kill some one...


Ive seen the exact same sides on one of my friends, blow up like a water ballon and his BP was at a dangerous level, now do you believe me the guy you got this crap of is a scammer? ive given you loads of proof mate and if I was you stop using and injecting that crap its going to kill you.

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## Matt

> Ive seen the exact same sides on one of my friends, blow up like a water ballon and his BP was at a dangerous level, now do you believe me the guy you got this crap of is a scammer? ive given you loads of proof mate and if I was you stop using and injecting that crap its going to kill you.


Your absolutely right mate, trust me, i will never inject this shit again....

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## marcus300

Since the Olympics the quality of hgh coming out of China has gone atrocious, its amazing what lengths the Chinese are going to minic some of the side effects, one of the best ways to find out how you truely respond is to buy some pharm grade and compare the results, ive been buying Chinese for some years now and I can honestly say more or less every coloured top or boxed hgh out of China is either fake,underdosed or complete crap. 

I actually dont want to buy Chinese hgh anymore ive had enough of these second rate labs knocking out alsorts of crap, when I buy 10ius i want 10ius of pure hgh and nothing more nothing less. When you look at what this Country does to its own people with counterfeit foods and medication it really does make me think what the hell i've been injecting. 

Everyone wants to believe their soruce is 100% because they dont want to admit they have wasted all their money on crap. Many people do report results from Chinese hgh and of course your going to see results because of the enhanced diet,training and the anabolic support your been doing while taking the white powder but is it the true results you would have if you had pharm grade! only one way to find out,try it. 

Another mine field is the lab testing, its clear from this thread alone it isnt has easy as we first thought, there are test's what you need to have done to see if its actually hgh, then there are tests to see what else is in the powder and if the actual powder is biologically active, the price of a proper test is absolute fortunes of money and who is going to pay that kind of money when you might aswell buy Pharm grade with the money, Even the Olympics Drug testing Officials find it hard to test for hgh so how the hell are we going to do it.

If people want to carry on risking buying this cheap medication that's your decision, but for me I am done with Chinese products.

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## JuliusPleaser

> here a post someone responded to me about my hgh protocal from another forum...got me thinking and it makes total sense...
> 
> --- rips in 6 months should yield some noticeable improvements but for everyone it's different. There is one problem in your protocol I will address later in this post. 
> 
> 5/2 protocol doesn't make any sense to me at all. If you are trying to save money, it makes less sense because you are leaving out 28% of the days you should be taking it to get results. Why not just go 4/3?
> 
> Personally I would go 7 days a week and I wouldn't start hgh 1 day before I was ready to run it 7 days a week for a year+. 
> 
> What results were you expecting from hgh in 3.5 months? If you use the 5/2 protocol you can deduct around 50+ days right? 
> ...


what u think of that...makes some sense no

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## matt77

Has anyone contacted this lab? http://www.intertek-cb.com/analytica...troscopy.shtml


If you look at there locations page they have labs in almost every country. So some of you guys that live in a country where HGH is legal to have may have no issue getting them to test a batch.

----------


## FCVtec

**UPDATE.
So, I have received my kefei's this morning. Like I previously said I am going to get another IGF 1 blood test soon to see if this time I have real HGH, Unlike the Kefei's I got previously these DONT say Kefei biotech on the tops, just "FLIP OFF" is written...... And the powder actually looked a bit different from the kefei's from last year. 

I am starting today and will be at 5iu until the test unless I feel some serious sides like last time I had the real thing. If I don't feel much I ll probably up the dose to 8iu before the test. How long should I wait until I get my blood test?? 

-THanks

----------


## BJJ

^^^
I wait 7 days and the go.

----------


## JuliusPleaser

no one has any comment on what i wrote a few posts above?

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## BJJ

> here a post someone responded to me about my hgh protocal from another forum...got me thinking and it makes total sense...
> 
> --- rips in 6 months should yield some noticeable improvements but for everyone it's different. There is one problem in your protocol I will address later in this post. 
> 
> 5/2 protocol doesn't make any sense to me at all. If you are trying to save money, it makes less sense because you are leaving out 28% of the days you should be taking it to get results. Why not just go 4/3? *agreed*
> 
> Personally I would go 7 days a week and I wouldn't start hgh 1 day before I was ready to run it 7 days a week for a year+. *6 months are fine too, imho*
> 
> What results were you expecting from hgh in 3.5 months? If you use the 5/2 protocol you can deduct around 50+ days right? 
> ...


bold

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## JuliusPleaser

wtf is 4/3 ?

----------


## Vitruvian-Man

4 on 3 off...

-VM

----------


## Xtralarg

> wtf is 4/3 ?


I guess it's 4 days on 3 days off.

The 5/2 protocol is tried and tested, I understand the theory behind it being 28% less than the ultimate 7/7 none stop cycle and therefore not as productive and this may be correct but nevertheless after 6 months you should see dramatic changes...in fact I have so I can vouch for the effectiveness of the 5/2 protocol because it has worked for me any others who I know personally.

----------


## JuliusPleaser

my friend who takes nutropin does 5/2 with only 3ius a day and is 5% bf, saw results in two weeks and also has only been on for 3 months...

so once i get my norditropin, ill put an end to all the doubts

----------


## Xtralarg

> my friend who takes nutropin does 5/2 with only 3ius a day and is 5% bf, saw results in two weeks and also has only been on for 3 months...
> 
> so once i get my norditropin, ill put an end to all the doubts


I have no doubts that once you start the norditropin you will see dramatic results if you run it at the right dose for the right amount of time, pharm grade gh is not in question here.

----------


## JuliusPleaser

well its pretty expensive stuff, im thinking of running 3iu 5/2...ill have 150ius total

----------


## Xtralarg

> well its pretty expensive stuff, im thinking of running 3iu 5/2...ill have 150ius total


That's only 10 weeks though, you really need to be looking at a higher dose for a longer period of time to see significant results. I know it's expensive but like most things in life, you get what you pay for.

If your friend saw results in 2 weeks then it certainly down to gh alone.

----------


## BJJ

> wtf is 4/3 ?


4 days on, 3 days off.

----------


## JuliusPleaser

150 ius total, 3ius a day 5/2 is 58 days...thats two months...then of course im gonna get another two months ill be on all year and probably forever

when i told him i took 5ius of rips, he started laughing...he goes ur "taking alot of gh which means urs must be garbage..."...if u read anabolics 2009, the gh protocols in there are no more than 2-3ius... im assuming this book is talking about using pharm grade hgh...and as my friend stated, im taking way too much and seeing nothing for it...imagine i was taking 5ius of norditropin for 6 months....exactly!

i think 3iu is perfect, its right between the 2iu -4iu min, and its pharm grade, so lets see if this potency hear say is any truth... maybe 3iu is equal to 6ius of chinese stuff..or more?..who knows...

hell if i melt away fat in 2 months on 3ius, get sides like CTS and sick vivid dreams, then im gonna be a happy camper..

also, lets not forget ive been on gh for 6 months already...im simply switching brands to a more potent/quality brand...so if rips have ANY gh in them, which i think they do just underdosed, im not really starting from scratch, im just continuing on better stuff...

also, this is the only board that says rips are no good...in fact when i go to other boards explaining what going on, they simply say im not on long enough and that its too early to tell...well most of the people on all these boards including this one are on chinese stuff...so if we are all taking garbage, then of course we have to wait 6 months to see anything, or "get sides", or whatever...another thing is, thos boards also sponsor the main dude who sells rips...but why would so many people be involved in a consipiracy to make rips better than what they are...most people that ive read on the boards are happy with hyges and rips, but in real life, none of my friends except 1-2 were happy with them...

when my Norditropin comes in, im gonna start a weekly long..every week im gonna post what i feel, how i slept, any sides..and of course, what i see in the mirror interms of fat losss etc

----------


## JuliusPleaser

why would i take 4 on and 3 off...that makes less sense than 5/2...whats the logic behind that..wouldnt thatbe LESS time on gh that the latter?

----------


## got fina?

Im not doubting that you know your stuff, but the HGH i have which is Serostim and a friend got from doc because he has aids doesnt have to be mixed for 30 seconds before the flakes disappear. Now im not saying this isnt true with other HGH, but with mine its just not the case.

I usually mix and when the water hits it, its melts into the water and then looks like theres a bit of a invisible cloud in it. About 5-10 seconds later, it becomes completely see through and its mixed.

So i dont know if you could just tell from that test alone.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Im not doubting that you know your stuff, but the HGH i have which is Serostim and a friend got from doc because he has aids doesnt have to be mixed for 30 seconds before the flakes disappear. Now im not saying this isnt true with other HGH, but with mine its just not the case.
> 
> I usually mix and when the water hits it, its melts into the water and then looks like theres a bit of a invisible cloud in it. About 5-10 seconds later, it becomes completely see through and its mixed.
> 
> So i dont know if you could just tell from that test alone.


I agree you can't tell from that test alone and since this thread began we have learned that flakes do not necessarily indicate that you have gh, with that said the flakes were only ever intended to act as an indicator are not a guarantee. If you have pharm grade such as serostim from a doc then you have nothing to worry about IMO.

----------


## JuliusPleaser

yea i took serostim and thats what happened with mine as well...

btw, my friend who got the results in two months, also does not take any t3!

----------


## frawnz

Another week of the new rips and I'll be running another IGF-1 test. The bloat is noticeable from the "HGH", as even other people have commented to me "hey, have you gained some weight?" At this point I'm almost positive this is not HGH, but for the sake of science, I will finish off this kit before running the blood test. 

I'll post an update once I get the final test results.

----------


## Jags77

What up bros, my apologies if this isn't the right place to post this but I've been reading up on hgh a lot lately and just received my generic blue tops from china, so the recent threads about the potential dangers have definitely caught my eye.

I plan to post my experiences with what I have for others. I bought what I believe to be 600IUs (~6 months worth at the doses I believe should be 'safe' to go with).

I've never tried hgh before, just 2 AAS cycles years ago which gave great results (deca , primo, winny).

Very curious to try hgh and looking to help lean me out and put on a little muscle. 

Here are pictures of what I have and seems similar to what others have posted for generic blue tops from china. Please let me know your thoughts.

I'm awaiting my bw results and will get retested a few months in as well. Definitely will check bp regularly too. 

A few questions for you all (yes, I'm a newbie):

Aside from the threads going on about bad hgh from china, anything concerning based on the pictures?

How much bac water should i get for this amount of hgh?

If I am planning on running just hgh, should I run PCT and what? I know most run hgh with AAS, so just wondering if I'd need anything during or after if only using hgh.

Thanks all. I'll start new thread if that's better, but thought others could benefit from this and a great informative thread already about chinese hgh.

----------


## JuliusPleaser

update...

i gave a kit of riptropin to my friend who is about 36 and only at 2iu a day in a few days he already feels sides of tingly and lethargy..so this brings up more doubt whether its legit or not, or possibly my kit was no good or i have built a tolerance

and also on another private board, my friend and other vip members tested the Elitropin yellow tops...the results were 97% purity!!! 

so if any u guys are taking elitropin i guess ur good to go

which brings me to my next question...if i can take elitropin at 97% purity, and assuming HG hgh is 100%, wouldnt i probably get simliar results as human grade if not almost the exact results?

----------


## JuliusPleaser

> What up bros, my apologies if this isn't the right place to post this but I've been reading up on hgh a lot lately and just received my generic blue tops from china, so the recent threads about the potential dangers have definitely caught my eye.
> 
> I plan to post my experiences with what I have for others. I bought what I believe to be 600IUs (~6 months worth at the doses I believe should be 'safe' to go with).
> 
> I've never tried hgh before, just 2 AAS cycles years ago which gave great results (deca , primo, winny).
> 
> Very curious to try hgh and looking to help lean me out and put on a little muscle. 
> 
> Here are pictures of what I have and seems similar to what others have posted for generic blue tops from china. Please let me know your thoughts.
> ...


u need 1cc of bac water for each vial...each bottle of 30ml bacteriostactic water will last for three 100iu kits...so in ur case, if u have 4 kits, u need about two bottles of bac water

kits look like normal blue tops...first sign of fake GH would be loose powder..ur looks nicely compacted...which is great, but this entire thread is about how no matter what it looks like, how u feel on it, etc..it can be anything coming from china...

but dont get ur hopes down, there is legit gh coming from china, justmost of it however it either underdosed or totally fake...

as i wrote above, my friend and his friends in another forum got elitropins tested...these are generic yellow tops relabled and from china and they came back 97% purity...so not all hope is lost...

there is no need to run PCT with Hgh...so dont worry about that...

----------


## Xtralarg

> update...
> 
> i gave a kit of riptropin to my friend who is about 36 and only at 2iu a day in a few days he already feels sides of tingly and lethargy..so this brings up more doubt whether its legit or not, or possibly my kit was no good or i have built a tolerance
> 
> and also on another private board, my friend and other vip members tested the Elitropin yellow tops...the results were 97% purity!!! 
> 
> so if any u guys are taking elitropin i guess ur good to go
> 
> which brings me to my next question...if i can take elitropin at 97% purity, and assuming HG hgh is 100%, wouldnt i probably get simliar results as human grade if not almost the exact results?



Can u get a copy of the lab report? Where is the lab and how much did it cost?

----------


## frawnz

I think using side effects to determine efficacy is how the whole fake HGH scam has really convinced people. I have read quite a few scientific studies on HGH, and side effects from use are not anywhere near as common as they would seem to be from the members of this forum tend to have. The most common was water retention. One of the *least common* was CTS, which everyone and their brother seems to get from the generics.

I would move away from using sides as a litmus test for HGH authenticity.

----------


## JuliusPleaser

intersting beceause inever got any sides from the rips...maybe thats a good sign...

as for the lab report, ill see what i can do

----------


## got fina?

I dont know if this will help but the only thing different ive ever felt from my Serostim was joint pain, especially in my hand. I started noticing about 2 weeks in that when i woke up in the morning and tried to close my hand, it felt very tight. After making a fist 3 or 4 times' it started going away.

I never got water retention though. It really sucks that theres all these fakes going around. It also sucks that just going by sides is definately not a good way to guess if your GH is legit or fake since everybody is different and wont always experience the same sides' IMO.

----------


## JuliusPleaser

> Can u get a copy of the lab report? Where is the lab and how much did it cost?


no idea what it costs but heres the results

and its only 95% purity..my mistake lol


and its green tops not yellow tops

----------


## Xtralarg

Is there any chance you can find out which lab did the test please?

----------


## fossilfuel7

I guarantee that Chinese suppliers are trying to figure out how to remedy this thread.

Even if someone gets a positive test result for one kind of GH from China , by no means does that mean that we can relax and start purchasing Chinese GH from China. Far to many suppliers to ever make a dent IMO.

----------


## underworld1997

EDIT, Read the rules, marcus300

----------


## JuliusPleaser

> Is there any chance you can find out which lab did the test please?


no idea what lab

----------


## Xtralarg

> no idea what lab


With respect I don't think that report carries any weight whatsoever then, anyone could make something like that up. It needs to be bake to be validated to be taken seriously IMO.

----------


## fossilfuel7

> With respect I don't think that report carries any weight whatsoever then, anyone could make something like that up. It needs to be bake to be validated to be taken seriously IMO.


I was thinking the same thing. I could make that in photo shop or paintbrush no problem.

It looks very generic and that is what the Chinese are good at doing...making crap that looks really generic and is really generic lol.

When I sent my poor lab results to the source that I got the Rips from, I only edited out my name and left everything else visible with the Lab name.

----------


## turk1968

All the greens i have used have always been sold as 8ius . Why give you an extra 17% hgh for free. If they can make hgh then can also get the dosage correct . I would suggest that maybe that is a fake test result on a 10iu blue top altered to say green.(95% pure of 10ius is around 9.5ius !)

If i had paid for an analytical test on a product, i would want alot more than just that piece of paper.

Where did this come from again?

----------


## JuliusPleaser

i dont know...

all i know is that i got this from my REAL friend, who ive kNOW in real life, and he doesn't mess around with garbage...and hes on mulitple boards and people respect him highly...

so u can take that and conclude whatever you want...

as for myself, i have norditropin on the way here, and i also just discovered other sources of HG hgh...so with that being said im gonna say this:

ive given many of my rips to a bunch of people...most of them liked it, others didn't notice much of a feeling...yet the ones i gave them too have been on HGH for a long ass time...isn't it possible (as for myself) that we build a resistance to HGH and thus the effects get dimished or lose effect at a certain dosage...if i have been on 5ius for 6 months, and my body DID actually change alot, maybe ihave to increase it?....i read this somewhere else the other day, how hgh therapy can reach a plateu and u have to either take a break or increase the dosage or upgrade to a higher quality (which i plan on doing)

so from what IVE experienced...the RIPS have done something to me, better sleep, they are vaccumed seal...i didn't get many sides but thats probably because ive been on various diff HGH all year...maybe we all have this higher expectation of what SHOULD happen on hgh, yet for all the people i know who i gave rips to said they are good to go...

so maybe we have all lost our minds, or maybe the generics are deadly rat poison..who knows, but i think we keep feeding our fears with this thread over and over...

i know people who SWEAR on generic blue tops, rips, hyges, and others who say ONLY HG is real...just like some people argue EQ is good and others useless...

either way, in the end, everyone is diff and maybe my body doesn't respond to 5ius anymore or maybe it is underdosed or its just egg whites...or maybe i live in the matrix and morpheus is gonna come get me lol...

when i get my HG hgh, ill start a post and end this all

----------


## turk1968

I also have ordered pharma grade because it is the only way i am ever going to know .I hope its good as its cost a [email protected]*in# fortune !! 

We will see !

----------


## FCVtec

**Back with another update

Been on the Kefei's now for a couple of days and I can say that it feels different than the Fake hyge that didn t feel like anything. After only a few days at 5iu my left hand started getting a little bit stiff at night and I also woke up in the middle of the night with a numb hand.. Something that hasn t happened since before I switched to the fake hyges. I have read on other threads people reporting waking up with very stiff and/or numb hands on hgh and that use to happen to me also and it just did again last night ... I am really trying to keep my mind from tricking me and fabricating sides but I am pretty sure this is at least different than the fake hyges confirmed by my last blood test.

Just to go over it again... With the hyges that I posted pictures of previously I had a IGF bloodtest result "In Range" at 263 taking over 8iu ED(obviously there was no hgh in those hyges). Now I have switched back to kefeis and will take another IGF bloodtest by next week and will post results. I am going to be on 5iu untill then. I took my sample 20 minutes after a shot. I read that was the correct time to do it. Is that information correct???

I will post my results and pics of the kefei's once I get my bloodwoork done .

----------


## underworld1997

> EDIT, Read the rules, marcus300


Sorry marcus but which bit of that post was bad enough to be removed relative to many other posts in this thread? I discussed price only in relative and vague terms and the only brand I mentioned was a pharmecutical company.

Which I've just noticed has already been posted along with a vague price description in this very thread :S

----------


## radiokaos

Guys this is a great thread. I'm a noob so bear with me.

I have been looking into HGH and I'm amazed at some of the results. 

I own a business that imports Nicotine (used ecigs) from China in LARGE quantities. I have been to China twice in the last year and know a little about the plants over there and can provide proof. I have a full time chemist here in the US who is on staff and test regularly for all my batches of nicotine coming from China. I'm not just testing strength, but also for adulterants, and flavoring as well. Testing for one chemical may be easy but testing for a gamete of other products and adulterants takes serious money and sometimes a full spectrum analysis. 

Its one thing to test for HGH with a local lab. Yes they might be able to provide you with positive scores. However are they testing for any adulterants or fillers as well? 

Just because a product dissolves in a set time does not make it legit. It is easy to mimic solubility with several chemicals out there.

That being said not every product from China is bad, but then again not every product is good either. I can produce bottles of "crap" and label it in a pretty bottle with blue, yellow, orange, or green caps as well. That does not make it a viable product. Heck my nicotine juice is labeled the same way with different color childproof caps and that does not mean that its legit and safe. 

This is just my .2 cents.

----------


## fossilfuel7

> Guys this is a great thread. I'm a noob so bear with me.
> 
> I have been looking into HGH and I'm amazed at some of the results. 
> 
> I own a business that imports Nicotine (used ecigs) from China in LARGE quantities. I have been to China twice in the last year and know a little about the plants over there and can provide proof. I have a full time chemist here in the US who is on staff and test regularly for all my batches of nicotine coming from China. I'm not just testing strength, but also for adulterants, and flavoring as well. Testing for one chemical may be easy but testing for a gamete of other products and adulterants takes serious money and sometimes a full spectrum analysis. 
> 
> Its one thing to test for HGH with a local lab. Yes they might be able to provide you with positive scores. However are they testing for any adulterants or fillers as well? 
> 
> Just because a product dissolves in a set time does not make it legit. It is easy to mimic solubility with several chemicals out there.
> ...


Thanks for your post and welcome.

----------


## fossilfuel7

> Guys this is a great thread. I'm a noob so bear with me.
> 
> I have been looking into HGH and I'm amazed at some of the results. 
> 
> I own a business that imports Nicotine (used ecigs) from China in LARGE quantities. I have been to China twice in the last year and know a little about the plants over there and can provide proof. I have a full time chemist here in the US who is on staff and test regularly for all my batches of nicotine coming from China. I'm not just testing strength, but also for adulterants, and flavoring as well. Testing for one chemical may be easy but testing for a gamete of other products and adulterants takes serious money and sometimes a full spectrum analysis. 
> 
> Its one thing to test for HGH with a local lab. Yes they might be able to provide you with positive scores. However are they testing for any adulterants or fillers as well? 
> 
> Just because a product dissolves in a set time does not make it legit. It is easy to mimic solubility with several chemicals out there.
> ...


Thanks for your post and welcome.

----------


## foxycce

> What up bros, my apologies if this isn't the right place to post this but I've been reading up on hgh a lot lately and just received my generic blue tops from china, so the recent threads about the potential dangers have definitely caught my eye.
> 
> I plan to post my experiences with what I have for others. I bought what I believe to be 600IUs (~6 months worth at the doses I believe should be 'safe' to go with).
> 
> I've never tried hgh before, just 2 AAS cycles years ago which gave great results (deca , primo, winny).
> 
> Very curious to try hgh and looking to help lean me out and put on a little muscle. 
> 
> Here are pictures of what I have and seems similar to what others have posted for generic blue tops from china. Please let me know your thoughts.
> ...


mine arrived this morning exactly the same!

----------


## rodge

i will never spend a single $ to chinese hgh again. have tried two diffent blue-tops, green-tops and hy getropin. from all of these i have shot 2 kits and a vial a day and then had bloodwork done... none of them raised my igf-I level. only thing good from china were the jintropin years ago. i stick with genotropin for now...

----------


## Xtralarg

> i will never spend a single $ to chinese hgh again. have tried two diffent blue-tops, green-tops and hy getropin. from all of these i have shot 2 kits and a vial a day and then had bloodwork done... none of them raised my igf-I level. only thing good from china were the jintropin years ago. i stick with genotropin for now...


Have you tried Jintropin or Gensci's other brand Hypertropin recently? Or at least after the Olympics?

----------


## rodge

> Have you tried Jintropin or Gensci's other brand Hypertropin recently? Or at least after the Olympics?


no i have'nt. i think i have spent enough money on chinese garbage, i rather spend a couple $$$ more so that i do see results from what i'm shooting!

----------


## Xtralarg

> no i have'nt. i think i have spent enough money on chinese garbage, i rather spend a couple $$$ more so that i do see results from what i'm shooting!


Thats is understandable and very wise!

----------


## rodge

> Thats is understandable and very wise!


and hgh is'nt my only concern outa china. i always use an ugl that i trust like its my own, and my workout buddy was on a primo only cycle from them and got some serieus gyno. so i'm fearing that also the powder sources are not always trustworthy. i hate to see if that becomes regurly cause if we have to go back to HG aas, we are back in the game of spot the fakes  :0icon Pissedoff:

----------


## Xtralarg

> and hgh is'nt my only concern outa china. i always use an ugl that i trust like its my own, and my workout buddy was on a primo only cycle from them and got some serieus gyno. so i'm fearing that also the powder sources are not always trustworthy. i hate to see if that becomes regurly cause if we have to go back to HG aas, we are back in the game of spot the fakes


It is clear to me that China can not be trusted one bit, time after time I hear about how people have been betrayed by China and its fake, underdosed and now incorrect goods! What we have to remember is that these are compounds that we are putting into our bodies and we should never settle for second best just because it is a few $$ cheaper IMHO.

Thanks for you input here Rodge.

----------


## rodge

> It is clear to me that China can not be trusted one bit, time after time I hear about how people have been betrayed by China and its fake, underdosed and now incorrect goods! What we have to remember is that these are compounds that we are putting into our bodies and we should never settle for second best just because it is a few $$ cheaper IMHO.
> 
> Thanks for you input here Rodge.


so true. le't's hope in time things will change for the best.

no problem mate  :Thumps Up:

----------


## Sheven

> no idea what it costs but heres the results
> 
> and its only 95% purity..my mistake lol
> 
> 
> and its green tops not yellow tops


95% purity for growth hormone is very good. but you cannot find out this only from a SDS-Page.

----------


## Jags77

> u need 1cc of bac water for each vial...each bottle of 30ml bacteriostactic water will last for three 100iu kits...so in ur case, if u have 4 kits, u need about two bottles of bac water
> 
> kits look like normal blue tops...first sign of fake GH would be loose powder..ur looks nicely compacted...which is great, but this entire thread is about how no matter what it looks like, how u feel on it, etc..it can be anything coming from china...
> 
> but dont get ur hopes down, there is legit gh coming from china, justmost of it however it either underdosed or totally fake...
> 
> as i wrote above, my friend and his friends in another forum got elitropins tested...these are generic yellow tops relabled and from china and they came back 97% purity...so not all hope is lost...


thanks for the input, got 2 30ml bac for the 6 kits. i ended up getting 6 kits because most everything i've read said you want to run hgh for at least 4-6 months for best potential.

glad to hear it 'looks fine', i just did first inj tonight of 1iu to start and the powder diluted within seconds of the bac running gently against it. no flakes or cloudiness remaining. i chose abdomen as the site from much of what i've read too. attached some pics of the mixed solution for reference to others. just swirled around slowly, not shaken.

if this does happen to be less potent than pharma, i may get a placebo effect anyhow since i wont wanna slack off spending decent money on all this stuff.  :Smilie:  same thing happened while i was on aas, although it worked well too  :Silly: 

i'm assuming that the mixed product needs to refrigerated even if it will be used up within 3 or 4 days? just curious because out of convenience i'd rather keep in my safe in my closet (cool/dry) but read it can keep for weeks in fridge. thanks!




> mine arrived this morning exactly the same!


nice! have same markings on box too? let me know how it works out for you, i'll do the same here.

hoping for decent results, but keeping expectations low.  :Smilie:

----------


## AndriodLee

> thanks for the input, got 2 30ml bac for the 6 kits. i ended up getting 6 kits because most everything i've read said you want to run hgh for at least 4-6 months for best potential.
> 
> glad to hear it 'looks fine', i just did first inj tonight of 1iu to start and the powder diluted within seconds of the bac running gently against it. no flakes or cloudiness remaining. i chose abdomen as the site from much of what i've read too. attached some pics of the mixed solution for reference to others. just swirled around slowly, not shaken.
> 
> if this does happen to be less potent than pharma, i may get a placebo effect anyhow since i wont wanna slack off spending decent money on all this stuff.  same thing happened while i was on aas, although it worked well too 
> 
> i'm assuming that the mixed product needs to refrigerated even if it will be used up within 3 or 4 days? just curious because out of convenience i'd rather keep in my safe in my closet (cool/dry) but read it can keep for weeks in fridge. thanks!
> 
> 
> ...



what color tops are those?

----------


## GearAholic

Lifeguard would def have some interesting info for you guys regarding his recent blood work results with rips and hyges I will see if I can get him on this thread to post his work for ya'll. I've been keeping my eye on this thread since in started and he has some intriguing findings for sure.

----------


## BJJ

> Lifeguard would def have some interesting info for you guys regarding his recent blood work results with rips and hyges I will see if I can get him on this thread to post his work for ya'll. I've been keeping my eye on this thread since in started and he has some intriguing findings for sure.


That would be great, thank you.

----------


## fossilfuel7

> Lifeguard would def have some interesting info for you guys regarding his recent blood work results with rips and hyges I will see if I can get him on this thread to post his work for ya'll. I've been keeping my eye on this thread since in started and he has some intriguing findings for sure.


He should be posting about it soon. We both started the Rips at the exact same time and were taking pretty much the same batch. We both kept in contact the whole time and had similar test results.

The source sent him some new kits to try and he will have results from them as well.

I just got a new kit for free from the source and will do an IGF-1 test before I start injecting that kit...then will do another test after completing the kit and I will post results about the findings.

As of now I am waiting on the funds that are supposed to pay for the tests.

----------


## Jags77

> what color tops are those?


generic blue tops..almost done with first vial (supposedly 10IUs), started at 1iu/day and now at 1.5IU, will continue to 3/day or so or until sides are bad. only side so far is i feel sleepy earlier than usual, but i end up getting great sleep. still way too early to know anything though.  :Smilie:

----------


## foxycce

im getting the symptoms of mine, tight veighns , acheing joints etc, debating on trying a diffo brand to see if theres any difference

----------


## JimInAK

> Guys this is a great thread. I'm a noob so bear with me.
> 
> I have been looking into HGH and I'm amazed at some of the results. 
> 
> I own a business that imports Nicotine (used ecigs) from China in LARGE quantities. I have been to China twice in the last year and know a little about the plants over there and can provide proof. I have a full time chemist here in the US who is on staff and test regularly for all my batches of nicotine coming from China. I'm not just testing strength, but also for adulterants, and flavoring as well. Testing for one chemical may be easy but testing for a gamete of other products and adulterants takes serious money and sometimes a full spectrum analysis. 
> 
> Its one thing to test for HGH with a local lab. Yes they might be able to provide you with positive scores. However are they testing for any adulterants or fillers as well? 
> 
> Just because a product dissolves in a set time does not make it legit. It is easy to mimic solubility with several chemicals out there.
> ...


I have purchased HGH from three different Chinese suppliers over the last year and a half, or so. I have never felt that I was not provided with genuine HGH.

I have never done "AMA approved, pharmacy-certified American produced" HGH, so perhaps I'm not getting the best product. However, I have no evidence that the Chinese product was not an excellent quality HGH.

My blood tests showed me that my liver reacted to the Chinese substance by dramatically increasing my IGF-1 level. Thus, I believe that the product I received was genuine.

Additionally, my results and the sides I experience were consistent and identical to those reported by people who were using, or thought they were using real HGH.

Lots of people, including myself have gotten fine results using Chinese products, including HGH.

I would be unable is benefit from HGH use without the availability of Chinese products. That's reality from my side of the tracks.

----------


## Jags77

> I have purchased HGH from three different Chinese suppliers over the last year and a half, or so. I have never felt that I was not provided with genuine HGH.
> 
> I have never done "AMA approved, pharmacy-certified American produced" HGH, so perhaps I'm not getting the best product. However, I have no evidence that the Chinese product was not an excellent quality HGH.
> 
> My blood tests showed me that my liver reacted to the Chinese substance by dramatically increasing my IGF-1 level. Thus, I believe that the product I received was genuine.
> 
> Additionally, my results and the sides I experience were consistent and identical to those reported by people who were using, or thought they were using real HGH.
> 
> Lots of people, including myself have gotten fine results using Chinese products, including HGH.
> ...


This is promising to hear. FWIW, my supplier has been contacting me for my feedback on his product about every week or so, asking if I have any questions etc (not sure what to ask him lol). 

When I was first inquiring about the product, he said if I was skeptical at all that I could buy just one box if preferred. this was more in reference to worrying that i would even receive anything. To me, that says something about the company. not to mention he has said he wants repeat business which is what you'd hope most suppliers would be after as well. But we know there are bad seeds so that isn't always true.

Anyhow, it's about 3 weeks in and been doing 5/2, started with 1iu/day and up to 3iu/day now and nothing negative to report. feel good overall, great workouts especially cardio. getting a bit leaner, can tell just with how clothes fit but a lot could just be placebo effect since it's still very early in.  :Smilie: 

i had some blood tests done before starting which im going to see doc about results in a week and plan to test again in a couple months. will report back in.

----------


## Dfour

subscribing

----------


## jimi1

Great thread.

I'm on my 3rd day of IP Yellow Tops, 2IU per day, and now I feel I should have a sample tested. 

I contacted three labs so far. Here are their replies:

1. Analytical Research Laboratories
www.arlok.com
_
Yes, we can test potency of Somatropin by HPLC. The cost is $250 per sample. We do ask that you provide material to be used as a reference standard or we can provide the standard at additional cost.

I appreciate the opportunity to provide this information to you. Would you let me know how you found ARL to request this testing? Please let me know if you have any other questions or requests for testing.

Thank you,

Kathy Heatherly, MSFS
Technical Sales & Support Representative
Analytical Research Laboratories
840 Research Parkway, Ste. 546
Oklahoma City, OK
phone: (405)271-1144
fax: (405)271-1174
[email protected]
_

2. www.Intertek.com
_Thank you for your interest in our services; we have reviewed your
inquiry. Unfortunately we are unable to provide you with the testing
services requested. However, ExperTox may be able to help you; here is
their website and phone number: http://www.expertox.com/, 281-476-4600.
Please feel free to contact me directly if you have any further testing
needs. I apologize for any inconvenience that this may cause. I look
forward to helping you in the future. Thank you and have a good day._

I emailed ExperTox and received this:
_
Sorry, we do not test for any growth hormones.

April Broward
Customer Service
ExperTox_


3. http://www.healthtestingcenters.com/hgh-blood-test.aspx
(Testing Provided by Labcorp www.Labcorp.com)
$79 for HGH test. 

I asked if they provide testing on samples of reconstituted HGH, before injection, but no reply yet.

----------


## bjpennnn

anyone of you used the rips the china is providing? i want some feedback on this hgh thing. it seems like its a huge ****en scam now ha.

----------


## bjpennnn

come on boyssss

----------


## 40plusnewbie

So I see the holy grail of generic HGH locations in China has still not been discovered. Damn! 

On a side note I don't think it's (at least in my experience, in fact in my experience I KNOW) it's not like : buy from china, get ripped off. U would be surprised to learn what I have bought from china and it was legit (although no longer available.

I think HGH is it's own beast but when dealing with other compounds if u can deal with a very large outfit it simply isn't in their best interest to screw you over anymore than it's in McDonald's best interests to start selling every 3rd hamburger with no meat in it, just bread. It's bad business. Now if ur dealing with someone pretending to be a large company, that's a different story. But if ur dealing with a billion dollar company I think it's highly unlikely they will jack you (the person who intercepts ur email might in secret, but not the company). So make sure u get the name of supervisor and stuff like that in case u run across a weasel like that.

----------


## bjpennnn

anyone have any feedback on riptropins are the gtg?

----------


## frawnz

> anyone have any feedback on riptropins are the gtg?


I tried two different batches of rips and got nothing but bloat from both. IGF-1 went up only nominally at 6IU/day on the first batch, and actually went down on the 2nd batch. My source refunded most of my money thankfully. I'm done with HGH until such a time that I can afford US pharm grade. Chinese HGH = junk IMO.

And I have yet to see bloodwork posted by those claiming that Chinese HGH is awesome.

----------


## 40plusnewbie

> and hgh is'nt my only concern outa china. i always use an ugl that i trust like its my own, and my workout buddy was on a primo only cycle from them and got some serieus gyno. so i'm fearing that also the powder sources are not always trustworthy. i hate to see if that becomes regurly cause if we have to go back to HG aas, we are back in the game of spot the fakes


There are trustworthy places in China, I would not look toward steroid specialists to find them though....

----------


## Twist

Came to the conclusion that my chinese hgh black tops was some sort of an anti-estrogen compound. Acne exploded, water loss in muscles and sub q, headaches, and I have not felt very good either (unable to workout with motivation) - idk if that is related. Got to be an anti estrogen. I can't think of any other explanation.

----------


## bjpennnn

badger milk ^^^

----------


## lift_heavy

i heard after one hour of pin

----------


## trike

There is a site that buyers award Chinese sellers "reputation points". Seems to be a good way to pick a good source.

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## Xtralarg

> There is a site that buyers award Chinese sellers "reputation points". Seems to be a good way to pick a good source.


It's not reliable.

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## Peace Missile

Can anybody tell from the pics, if these are fakes? (pics from the website).

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## marcus300

Come on, you posted white powder in bottles with green tops, impossible to say but the % would be high that is contains crap or fake. Dont watse your time and money on rubbish like this buy pharm grade.

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## JimInAK

I can't say if your source is good, but those vials look like genuine HGH. If you don't know your source, then you may want to seriously consider Marcus' advice.

A scammer can put HGC in a vial, which looks like HGH. You can test your product with a birth control test strip and that will reveal if you've got HGC. You can take IGF-1 blood tests, which will tell you whether your HGH is genuine. You can get good Chinese HGH, if you're dealing with a reputable source.

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## Far from massive

Great thread Marcus,

I was discussing this with a friend last night; he was saying how a guy he knew at the gym was selling growth cheap. I told him to be careful because cheap often equals fake. As far as detecting fakes from label quality, holograms etc. that may be a great technique for AAS being sold by UGLs operated out of garages, on a full scale counterfeiting operation like you generally see in china they have the resources in place to easily fake all of that stuff. They often spend millions on a plant to make billions, remember the fake "Big Berthas" that were coming out a few years back? PGA players could not tell they were fake till they hit a ball.

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## trike

> I can't say if your source is good, but those vials look like genuine HGH. If you don't know your source, then you may want to seriously consider Marcus' advice.
> 
> A scammer can put HGC in a vial, which looks like HGH. You can test your product with a birth control test strip and that will reveal if you've got HGC. You can take IGF-1 blood tests, which will tell you whether your HGH is genuine. You can get good Chinese HGH, if you're dealing with a reputable source.


Ya they can put anything in call it hgh... I saw someone on another board praising the effects of hgh and how he didnt know if it was a side effect but he was getting noticeably darker... he said people around him were asking if he was tanning... dude was sold some melanotan. You can get an IGF-1 blood test but that wont determine whether you were given ghrp-6 or hgh both increase your IGF-1 level. HCG is easy to spot with a prego test... the others I mentioned, not so much.

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## turk1968

I dont know how you could possibly tell if chinese hgh is good or fake as all the different makes are the same vials with no/different labels stuck on them that we could all get made up at any printers. The vials are not made by the hgh manufacturers but bought wholesale and could be bought by anyone. Most sources are just middle men and just pass on the orders to the manufacturers who either send out direct or back to the source for remail. Unless you actually know the person who runs/owns the factory you will never know whether its real/fake/underdosed or full of other nasties we dont know about. The pictures above just look like standard blues or greens readily bought from many places. I have used ansomone /blues /greens for the last 4 years and now have just started saizen so lets see if pharma is much different !

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## Far from massive

please read the rule, marcus

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## Peace Missile

I've spoken to the seller for quite some time now and everything seems to be legite. I've ordered and received 100iu of those green tops which I posted, i'll get it tested to find out for sure!

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## turk1968

let us know how you are going to get it tested. Many have tried all i believe have failed!

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## Xtralarg

Where are you going to get it tested?

----------


## BG

Well I've been on hyge 8 iu tops for almost 3 months now and they are comparable to the original jins. I have used brown, blue, red tops since then and they weren't close. 

As rodge had mentioned , I to believe the raws from over seas are garbage also. We have no way of testing a y more. I had all my ugl gear tested back in the day and the gear wAs so much better then. I just started to get the " feel " of my gear again since turning to hg.

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## Peace Missile

I've done the pregnancy test and it came out negative, thus it is not HCG . I have started taking the HGH Green Tops and already have experienced the vivid dreams associated with HGH. So far, so good........

----------


## BG

> I've done the pregnancy test and it came out negative, thus it is not HCG. I have started taking the HGH Green Tops and already have experienced the vivid dreams associated with HGH. So far, so good........


These two facts mean nothing. The problem is they arent using hcg , its to expensive, they are just using anything they can find that will mimic hgh side effects.

----------


## Peace Missile

> These two facts mean nothing. The problem is they arent using hcg , its to expensive, they are just using anything they can find that will mimic hgh side effects.


Well I wouldn't say they mean nothing! For a start, it means it is not HCG ! Secondly, the vivid dreams is a good sign. Furthermore, I have done more checks on the seller and things are looking promising (thank God)!

----------


## Swifto

Riptropin's...

Who has used them? There getting good reports over at PM... Constantly.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Riptropin's...
> 
> Who has used them? There getting good reports over at PM... Constantly.


I think that notsmall was using them at a dosage of 30-40 iu's ed just before he went missing in action, presumed dead! Enough said.

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## Matt

^^^ Sad thing is that could well be true.....

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## marcus300

Rips are crap like most gh from China

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## JYZZA

Not sure where to start in this section. I have been on GH on and off for years. 85% of the GH used has been from China and guess what, I had good results. Couple of Pros whom I know personally had used same source. Please do not email me. I believe its all about your source. How he handles the GH. if its stored correctly, how many hands are in the cookie jar and so forth. I have used American GH, Rips, Hyges, Blue tops, brow tops, Thanks, Jins and some other ones. Always had good results. I only dealt with few who carried them. But they took care of the GH like it was for them. Well stored. Others were on same GH as I with good results. GH is not something that with out a diet you will see crazy results.. If your diet is not on track it will not work as good. Common sense. Also, these days there are many new studies regarding how to take GH. before food, after food, how long after to have the best effect on your body and what works well for you. I got better results on GH going 2 on 1 off and 3 on 1 off. Mixing it up. My body reacted better then doing it everyday at the same dosage. I switch it up. When kids grow and release GH they don;t release same amount each time. Think about it. America GH is more pure, everyone knows this but if you know good spot in China then your good to go.

----------


## blackbird

If i can chime in here.I have noticed my hair and nails grow way faster when taking GH
Wouldnt that indicate it has to be real?

----------


## letstrain

Hi guys, can anyone tell if they have or know about HGH Scitropin A, it is pharm grade from the doctor, just want to know if its a good sort of HGH please, any help would be great, Thx

----------


## marcus300

> Not sure where to start in this section. I have been on GH on and off for years. 85% of the GH used has been from China and guess what, I had good results. Couple of Pros whom I know personally had used same source. Please do not email me. I believe its all about your source. How he handles the GH. if its stored correctly, how many hands are in the cookie jar and so forth. I have used American GH, Rips, Hyges, Blue tops, brow tops, Thanks, Jins and some other ones. Always had good results. I only dealt with few who carried them. But they took care of the GH like it was for them. Well stored. Others were on same GH as I with good results. GH is not something that with out a diet you will see crazy results.. If your diet is not on track it will not work as good. Common sense. Also, these days there are many new studies regarding how to take GH. before food, after food, how long after to have the best effect on your body and what works well for you. I got better results on GH going 2 on 1 off and 3 on 1 off. Mixing it up. My body reacted better then doing it everyday at the same dosage. I switch it up. When kids grow and release GH they don;t release same amount each time. Think about it. *America GH is more pure, everyone knows this but if you know good spot in China then your good to go*.


 All HGH should be 100% pure not just pharm grade, if you are knowing taking something what isnt 100% gh why on earth would you take second rate! doesnt make sense. 4 ius should mean 4 ius not 1iu or fake

Fact is it cost alot of money to produce gh in the right environment and do you think these second rate labs are going to sell you stuff what cost's millions of pounds to produce...nope

Alot of the china gh mimic the exact sides and much of the latest stuff is just water retaining chemicals, I listen to a guy the other day in Manchester he told me he as put on 2 stone since taking gh he's been on it for 2 months lol, he looked that unhealthy it was untrue, gh doesn't do that but if the scales move upward he was happy, thats what most people think who haven't used pharm grade gh........all i say is get pharm grade and swallow the £££'s and see how you react and how your suppose to look, its completely different than that china crap.............its either fake,unhealthy chemicals,under-dosed (if your lucky) or something else what they are using but I can assure you its crap but I have no chance in convincing everyone because no one wants to know or believe they have wasted all this money.

Ive spent thousands on pharm grade gh in my early day and nothing out of china comes close or can even stand next to it and ive used every solid source going, you happy using second rate labs to produce some water retaining crap thats your choice but for me nothing less than 100% pure gh is the only way to go.

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## bjpennnn

> Riptropin's...
> 
> Who has used them? There getting good reports over at PM... Constantly.


I am on these atm. I am at 5ius ed. noticing all the normal sides. way more vivid dreams, sleepy, and i think a little fat loss. been on since sept 29. Plan on staying on for a year but i think i am going to go with the 10ius eod protocol for a while in a few weeks.

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## Sheven

> All HGH should be 100% pure not just pharm grade, if you are knowing taking something what isnt 100% gh why on earth would you take second rate! doesnt make sense. 4 ius should mean 4 ius not 1iu or fake
> 
> Fact is it cost alot of money to produce gh in the right environment and do you think these second rate labs are going to sell you stuff what cost's millions of pounds to produce...nope
> 
> Alot of the china gh mimic the exact sides and much of the latest stuff is just water retaining chemicals, I listen to a guy the other day in Manchester he told me he as put on 2 stone since taking gh he's been on it for 2 months lol, he looked that unhealthy it was untrue, gh doesn't do that but if the scales move upward he was happy, thats what most people think who haven't used pharm grade gh........all i say is get pharm grade and swallow the £££'s and see how you react and how your suppose to look, its completely different than that china crap.............its either fake,unhealthy chemicals,under-dosed (if your lucky) or something else what they are using but I can assure you its crap but I have no chance in convincing everyone because no one wants to know or believe they have wasted all this money.
> 
> Ive spent thousands on pharm grade gh in my early day and nothing out of china comes close or can even stand next to it and ive used every solid source going, you happy using second rate labs to produce some water retaining crap thats your choice but for me nothing less than 100% pure gh is the only way to go.


bro you are on the spot when saying about "water retention chemicals"

but you are wrong when you generalize saying all HGH from china has this effect. most guys consider good HGH the one that causes big water retention and hurt in the hands and ligaments. for this purpose the Chinese have put cortisone in the vials to cause this effects and to be able to sell the GH cheaper and cheaper. the real HGH from china, which is much more expensive than the one sold at very discounted prices, is good and works great and has a purity of about 96% which is a pharma grade standard but more and more producers prefer dosing with cortisone. sad but true.

it all starts from the fact that people buy HGH and expect to grow huge and increase their body mass by much. real HGH does nothing like that is a drug with completely different effects (great effects if you ask me) but some people understand from this sport by just growing no matter what. i know in few countries people prefer buying unlabeled generic yellow tops at incredible low prices and have huge water retention than buying real HGH that is not causing so visible and dramatic effects in the first days of use. so if people ask for water retention and very low prices this is what they get.

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## bjpennnn

by the way i would be interested to hear any other feedback that anyone has on rips

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## marcus300

> bro you are on the spot when saying about "water retention chemicals"
> 
> but you are wrong when you generalize saying all HGH from china has this effect. most guys consider good HGH the one that causes big water retention and hurt in the hands and ligaments. for this purpose the Chinese have put cortisone in the vials to cause this effects and to be able to sell the GH cheaper and cheaper. the real HGH from china, which is much more expensive than the one sold at very discounted prices, is good and works great and has a purity of about 96% which is a pharma grade standard but more and more producers prefer dosing with cortisone. sad but true.
> 
> it all starts from the fact that people buy HGH and expect to grow huge and increase their body mass by much. real HGH does nothing like that is a drug with completely different effects (great effects if you ask me) but some people understand from this sport by just growing no matter what. i know in few countries people prefer buying unlabeled generic yellow tops at incredible low prices and have huge water retention than buying real HGH that is not causing so visible and dramatic effects in the first days of use. so if people ask for water retention and very low prices this is what they get.


I said much of the latest stuff is just water retaining chemicals like anti diuretic hormone, i didnt say all. The rest is either underdosed,fake or complete crap IMHO anyway. If you think there is 100% pure gh coming out of unlicensed second rate labs from the biggest counterfeit country in the world then that's your opinion, its not mine. All I can say to people who think they are getting quality gh from china is try Pharm grade for 12 months at 6-8ius and you will see what 100% pure gh is suppose to do.

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## Sheven

> I said much of the latest stuff is just water retaining chemicals like anti diuretic hormone, i didnt say all. The rest is either underdosed,fake or complete crap IMHO anyway. If you think there is 100% pure gh coming out of unlicensed second rate labs from the biggest counterfeit country in the world then that's your opinion, its not mine. All I can say to people who think they are getting quality gh from china is try Pharm grade for 12 months at 6-8ius and you will see what 100% pure gh is suppose to do.


i have used pharm grade and no chinese gh can compare to it. no doubt. but i have used also high purity gh of chinese provenience that proved very pure at a SDS-Page test and results were really good, i`d say 70% of the pharm grade gh. i agree with you the vast majority of gh from china is completely shit and lately is a health hazard, cortisone is totally destroying someones body.

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## JYZZA

marcus, sorry that you have had bad experience with GH coming out of China. There are hundreds of people whom use it with good results. Many things are faked these days. But when you get your blood levels tests and your levels are double then I would think its real. Its all about your source. I had a good friend years ago who lived in China and visited Gensci (Jintropin) company. They use Jintropin in local hospitals there. I guess since you say all GH from China is fake then I feel bad for all those people using it for medical reason. Truth is just like with any other compound you will have real and faked or under dosed. So your source comes into play again. Its interesting how my diet will stay the same with no cardio in winter time and my bf% keeps dropping when I add GH. My skin starts looking little different, I remember most of my dreams which are intense, my hair grows faster along with my nails and I just feel all around better. 

Why rain on everyones parade. GH has been coming from China for many many years. Many people had their blood work done pointing that China has real GH. 

Everyone has their own opinion. I have been around for a very long time and if I felt that all GH is fake the trust me I would post up my opinion. My true opinion is that it depends on your source where he gets it from. American GH is faked too. So again depends where you get your shit from.





> Ive spent thousands on pharm grade gh in my early day and nothing out of china comes close or can even stand next to it and ive used every solid source going, you happy using second rate labs to produce some water retaining crap thats your choice but for me nothing less than 100% pure gh is the only way to go.

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## marcus300

^^^ read the whole thread it may just open your eyes

If your happy you carry on taking it, best of luck

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## JimInAK

> marcus, sorry that you have had bad experience with GH coming out of China. There are hundreds of people whom use it with good results. Many things are faked these days. But when you get your blood levels tests and your levels are double then I would think its real. Its all about your source. I had a good friend years ago who lived in China and visited Gensci (Jintropin) company. They use Jintropin in local hospitals there. I guess since you say all GH from China is fake then I feel bad for all those people using it for medical reason. Truth is just like with any other compound you will have real and faked or under dosed. So your source comes into play again. Its interesting how my diet will stay the same with no cardio in winter time and my bf% keeps dropping when I add GH. My skin starts looking little different, I remember most of my dreams which are intense, my hair grows faster along with my nails and I just feel all around better. 
> 
> Why rain on everyones parade. GH has been coming from China for many many years. Many people had their blood work done pointing that China has real GH. 
> 
> Everyone has their own opinion. I have been around for a very long time and if I felt that all GH is fake the trust me I would post up my opinion. My true opinion is that it depends on your source where he gets it from. American GH is faked too. So again depends where you get your shit from.


I have been taking Chinese HGH for 2+ years. My blood tests come back with an IGF-1 level that is more than double my baseline amount with a relatively small dose... much less than the 6 - 8iu recommendation. Generally, my IGF-1 reading is almost 100ng/ml higher per each 1iu daily dose taken.

I don't think it's realistic or accurate to claim that the only good HGH is American pharm grade. I'm not willing to give up 50% of my annual income on American pharm grade to test others opinions, when my blood tests confirm that my IGF-1 is elevated and the effects I've experienced are positive.

I'll stick with my relatively cheap and proven good Chinese HGH. I've been all but called a liar on this forum, which I find amusing... However, blood tests don't lie.

Hell, even the DEA, whom I rarely if ever agree with has managed to bust Chinese HGH suppliers selling millions of dollars of products. Don't you think they (the defendants) would take some of those millions in profit to demonstrate that they really didn't sell HGH? That's a legal defense I have yet to hear about, and I've just about heard it all. LOL !!!

Thanks JYZZA for your experience. Mine has been quite similar.

----------


## Markosterone

I'm on riptropin's as we speak.

gained about 3lbs in about 1-2 weeks from starting. my first time using gh.

I feel a little stiff all over, get good pumps at the gym. I do sleep well, but I always do so...
I dont have tingeling in my hands or anything. hard to say I feel anything exept the pumps, and stiffness. 

dont really know if its good or not. but I do get a little bloated over the day, and next morning im slim again  :Big Grin: 
I take it in the morning when I wake up, 4ius at once.
now I'm trying 6iu's EOD. see how that feels.

edit
mine came like this:
http://img89.imageshack.us/i/dsc00871x.jpg/
http://img26.imageshack.us/i/dsc00872qv.jpg/
http://img715.imageshack.us/i/dsc00873wh.jpg/

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

I think after all is said and done, chineese gh is hit or miss. I tried pharm grade serostim many years ago and was only able to take 1 iu per day due to my wrist pain flaring up to the point I could not lift. It was that strong! I tried ********** later on and was able to take 8ius with only minor wrist pain on occasion. Took blue tops from same source I got hyges from and got nothing whatsover out of them.

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## baseline_9

Ronnie

Would you conclude that the branded GH you used (which is ******* ??) was roughly 8 times as less potent?

Were results from 1 IU of Pharm grade compairable to 8IU of china branded stuff


I would think that some of the branded GH would be 100%

I mean, a good product sells well, much better than an underdosed product

Are we saying that even the well established brands are bunk???

Why would they make a product that is not what it says it is

Sure they can make money by scamming people or even underdosing the GH (8 times under), bu IMO this makes no buisness sence...

If Some company in china could make 100% GH as good as US Pharm Grade for half the price why would they not do this?

The problem is that no one can afford Pharm grade GH, so people will always go to china

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## russiandave

They can bottle whatever they want and make money for two reasons. One, there is someone new who reads about hgh everyday and do enough reading to get it but not see threads like this.

Two and more importantly; it's a hormone that is slowwwwww to kick in. Six months is the suggested time to see and feel true results. Just the beginning. So now that means a true run is at least a year long. Anyone who has purchased hgh knows that's a good chunk of money. 

After six months ifnothing has happened people will suggest to give it more time. Or up the dose. And the results aren't as heavy as an aas cycle where you know your on something. 

So IMO it's the actual compound and how it works that allows it to be sold with little regard. It could be fake and someone could get on it and diet accordingly and contribute the slow weight loss to the hgh when it is actually from their increase of cardio and working out.

It makes sense to sell bunk in this situation. No one knows the difference. No one can test it, and it costs nothing compared to actually manufacturing real ugh which is reportedly pricey.

I stopped my hgh a while ago. I'm on a test prop cycle and already have double the results of hgh at a fraction of the cost. Hgh only makes sense if u have a legit pharm grade source and you are in a sport that tests for aas. Even if u are older there is no reason for hgh when u can cruise on a testosterone replacement therapy dose of test just as easily with wayyyy less pinning and a tiny fraction of the cost.

My .02

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## bubbaboy

hello, my buddy was e-mailing every company trying to get a direct hook. some guy got back to him and says he worked for the company that makes all the gh in china and distributes to all the others. he sold us alpha-gen no lables. top has the proper sighn. cheap cheap. i got the first kit . started at 2iu the 3iu. my hands are numb alot. i am leaner after 3 weeks. it is cheap enough to run a high dose. i just ordered some igf-1 from the same guy. if i run to mg straight at 50 mcg. i shgould know right. thanks for any info. everything else checks out reconstitutes over 60 seconds.

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## mighty1

marcus is just a little out of his mind, we keep telling him that we tried good chinese gh and he keep stating his BS, i always say there are bad chinese products, jintropin was bad chinese product, it was faked alot and even the original was just not it, made you gain lots of water without the desired effect, kigtropin on the other hand that few here have used is as good as serostim, im very sorry but if a guy goes from 13% down to 8-9% and add 10 pounds to his frame in that same period of time while making it look twice as big volume wise...that to me says it all!

less than 40 freaking days since gh added KIGTROPIN and its a different physiqe. the water retention subsided week 3, i am telling you here on this board that marcus should be taken off his moderator status, im not going to talk to admin about it since im too busy to worry about anabolic review...but if you want to have any cred as a board you should take the moderator status from this guy. 

he has officially showed it due to HIS bad experience with products. i kept saying gh from china is good and bad depending who you get it from, he kept saying its all rubbish, he is wrong, i am right, i am right because every single vet in this community can tell you that im right, including all the SERIOUS BIG SOURCES, 

if you think that the sources im talking about will sell fake gh marcus....you are out of your mind, im talking here the biggest sources in the game which you most likley have no idea who they are no matter how long you been a mod on steroid .com

you all do what you want guys, but i assure you if you try 1 kit good china gh, you will see it is pretty much equivalent to american gh.

----------


## dec11

> marcus is just a little out of his mind, we keep telling him that we tried good chinese gh and he keep stating his BS, i always say there are bad chinese products, jintropin was bad chinese product, it was faked alot and even the original was just not it, made you gain lots of water without the desired effect, kigtropin on the other hand that few here have used is as good as serostim, im very sorry but if a guy goes from 13% down to 8-9% and add 10 pounds to his frame in that same period of time while making it look twice as big volume wise...that to me says it all!
> 
> less than 40 freaking days since gh added KIGTROPIN and its a different physiqe. the water retention subsided week 3, i am telling you here on this board that marcus should be taken off his moderator status, im not going to talk to admin about it since im too busy to worry about anabolic review...but if you want to have any cred as a board you should take the moderator status from this guy. 
> 
> he has officially showed it due to HIS bad experience with products. i kept saying gh from china is good and bad depending who you get it from, he kept saying its all rubbish, he is wrong, i am right, i am right because every single vet in this community can tell you that im right, including all the SERIOUS BIG SOURCES, 
> 
> if you think that the sources im talking about will sell fake gh marcus....you are out of your mind, im talking here the biggest sources in the game which you most likley have no idea who they are no matter how long you been a mod on steroid .com
> 
> you all do what you want guys, *but i assure you if you try 1 kit good china gh, you will see it is pretty much equivalent to american gh*.


how the hell can anyone tell from just one kit?! go on, explain? thats just another big hole in your bullshit rantings. i have a ex colleague ( a top personal trainer) who was getting lilly humatrope gh straight from a medical rep (client), he used 4iu's pd for 17mths and only noticed diff at around 3mths in. i for one have had nothing but sterling advice from marcus from day one on this forum, neva gone more than 12hrs without a reply from him on advice ive needed, he's told me when to go for it and talked me down from other ideas ive had. that speaks volumes of knowledge and experience, you on the other hand seem to have not much more than a hidden agenda.

----------


## mighty1

> how the hell can anyone tell from just one kit?! go on, explain? thats just another big hole in your bullshit rantings. i have a ex colleague ( a top personal trainer) who was getting lilly humatrope gh straight from a medical rep (client), he used 4iu's pd for 17mths and only noticed diff at around 3mths in. i for one have had nothing but sterling advice from marcus from day one on this forum, neva gone more than 12hrs without a reply from him on advice ive needed, he's told me when to go for it and talked me down from other ideas ive had. that speaks volumes of knowledge and experience, you on the other hand seem to have not much more than a hidden agenda.


there is no hidden agenda, if you were a BB which i AM, you would know how legit gh works, you would know the changes with legit gh are on daily basis from the moment its being injected into the blood, you would also know that after 30 days on gh (considering you have test, tren , eq ect in system for quite some time) you will see significant difference in lean muscle mass, you will be leaner and get larger within those 30 days to a very noticable level, and thereafter you will only grow bigger and better and leaner down to the 6-7% level while not losing even a pd. it will actually be the opposite...you will gain weight/size while reducing bf at the same time, 

there is no hidden agenda, there is ONLY the truth, i dont like many chinese gh, i didnt like jins, i didnt like many blue tops i thought they were rubbish, but kigs, thanktropin, and the brown tops from back in 2005-2006 are legit gh equivalent to american gh, its the right of EVERYONE to know it, and the right of everyone to use it.

1 kit of hgh, if you know your BB will tell you very fast that you are dealing with legit gh, you will know it because you will see changes mainly in how your body gets leaner and the skin become paper thin while muscle pushes out, you will see it within 30 days clearly, and therefor will order more, like thousands of BBS around the world do, 

remember, i did not say every china gh is legit, i said few are, i didnt say china is the center for hgh magic, i said china has a number of LABS and yes they are LABS that produce legit gh. every vet in the game can tell you that, every vet in the game will not care to tell you that because for them you are just another newbe with 10k posts who is 20 something and decided he is a BB 3 years ago, 

listen bud, you can tell from the way i write i wasnt born yesterday in this game, i been around forever, i know what im talking about because while 75% of you were getting into highschool i was already deep in the aas and related hormones world, hands on, years over years of hands on and 24/7 being a BB.

ask around alittle, not about mighty1, mighty1 is just a name, ask around from guys who actually make their living off BB, they will confirm every single word i say, reason they wont be here is because they couldnt care less if you are helped or not, they want more for themselves, more kigs for them means they go big and you stay in lala land

this is really really stupid of me to even come here argue that, i should just let you play around with your own shit, i actually thought to myself...why not i been on that anabolicreview boards for many years, i can give those up and coming BBS some help, i forgot who im dealing with here and what era you belong to, 

forget what i said listen to marcus...

----------


## Swifto

> there is no hidden agenda, if you were a BB which i AM, you would know how legit gh works, you would know the changes with legit gh are on daily basis from the moment its being injected into the blood, you would also know that after 30 days on gh (considering you have test, tren , eq ect in system for quite some time) you will see significant difference in lean muscle mass, you will be leaner and get larger within those 30 days to a very noticable level, and thereafter you will only grow bigger and better and leaner down to the 6-7% level while not losing even a pd. it will actually be the opposite...you will gain weight/size while reducing bf at the same time, 
> 
> there is no hidden agenda, there is ONLY the truth, i dont like many chinese gh, i didnt like jins, i didnt like many blue tops i thought they were rubbish, but kigs, thanktropin, and the brown tops from back in 2005-2006 are legit gh equivalent to american gh, its the right of EVERYONE to know it, and the right of everyone to use it.
> 
> 1 kit of hgh, if you know your BB will tell you very fast that you are dealing with legit gh, you will know it because you will see changes mainly in how your body gets leaner and the skin become paper thin while muscle pushes out, you will see it within 30 days clearly, and therefor will order more, like thousands of BBS around the world do, 
> 
> remember, i did not say every china gh is legit, i said few are, i didnt say china is the center for hgh magic, i said china has a number of LABS and yes they are LABS that produce legit gh. every vet in the game can tell you that, every vet in the game will not care to tell you that because for them you are just another newbe with 10k posts who is 20 something and decided he is a BB 3 years ago, 
> 
> listen bud, you can tell from the way i write i wasnt born yesterday in this game, i been around forever, i know what im talking about because while 75% of you were getting into highschool i was already deep in the aas and related hormones world, hands on, years over years of hands on and 24/7 being a BB.
> ...


Just out of curiosity, what are your stats?

----------


## marcus300

Mighty1, Your full of shit and talk total bollocks. You got banned from OLM for bullshitting and sprouting your stupid lies, do you really think our members are going to listen to such bull. You have no idea what your talking about or doing.

If your so happy with china gh stay with it but stop trying to push it all over this board, state your opinion but for god sake stop trying to promote this crap all the time, everyone can see through you.

Your known for your bullshit, you got banned for your bullshit, so stop your bullshitting around here you lying fool.

----------


## dec11

> there is no hidden agenda, if you were a BB which i AM, you would know how legit gh works, you would know the changes with legit gh are on daily basis from the moment its being injected into the blood, you would also know that after 30 days on gh (considering you have test, tren , eq ect in system for quite some time) you will see significant difference in lean muscle mass, you will be leaner and get larger within those 30 days to a very noticable level, and thereafter you will only grow bigger and better and leaner down to the 6-7% level while not losing even a pd. it will actually be the opposite...you will gain weight/size while reducing bf at the same time, 
> 
> there is no hidden agenda, there is ONLY the truth, i dont like many chinese gh, i didnt like jins, i didnt like many blue tops i thought they were rubbish, but kigs, thanktropin, and the brown tops from back in 2005-2006 are legit gh equivalent to american gh, its the right of EVERYONE to know it, and the right of everyone to use it.
> 
> 1 kit of hgh, if you know your BB will tell you very fast that you are dealing with legit gh, you will know it because you will see changes mainly in how your body gets leaner and the skin become paper thin while muscle pushes out, you will see it within 30 days clearly, and therefor will order more, like thousands of BBS around the world do, 
> 
> remember, i did not say every china gh is legit, i said few are, i didnt say china is the center for hgh magic, i said china has a number of LABS and yes they are LABS that produce legit gh. every vet in the game can tell you that, every vet in the game will not care to tell you that because for them you are just another newbe with 10k posts who is *20 something and decided he is a BB 3 years ago*, 
> 
> listen bud, you can tell from the way i write i wasnt born yesterday in this game, i been around forever, i know what im talking about because while 75% of you were getting into highschool i was already deep in the aas and related hormones world, hands on, years over years of hands on and 24/7 being a BB.
> ...


what kind of conceited asshole are you? seriousily fvck off and get a life you cretin, i only hope no one is stupid enough to be scammed by you. why isnt this TWAT banned? its so obvious

----------


## mighty1

no marcus, you lie yet once again, i was banned at OLM because one specific DRUNK CORRUPT MOD decided i was not tellin the truth about being a PRO based on ip reading : ) thinking i would be dumb enough to have my real name on ip...thinking he knows the ppl behind ips...and wanted pics of me, THAT IS THE REASON, i have the highest reputation among all board members along the years since 1997, you again fail at proving your point. 
BTW, i was already asked couple times to get back on that board and REFUSED. that board is dead for me because it was corrupt, anabolicreview on the other hand, was not known for corruption, until i heard your BS, then again as i said before and this goes to the next post under yours, do what you want, i never once tried to push china gh, i just stated MY EXPERIENCE. 

you are now risking this board from going same way OLM went, notice what happened when i left OLM, it started ....falling apart, few mods and vets left after me, in more than one way and more than one reason, the only reason it holds is because nordic wants it to and i like nordic so im fine with it, thats why i keep my mouth shut because i respect him. i could easily get back there by talking to nordic, i wont do it, i dont need that board, have plenty of others.

get your facts straight genious.

----------


## MACHINE5150

can't we just bury the hatchet with all this bickering and just agree that one needs to be extremely cautious when purchasing HGH, and should probably get it tested prior to use?

I read through the first few pages of this thread and was unsuccessful at finding anyone who was able to offer a lab that is willing to test? If anyone has this info please PM me as i have a friend who gets his from China and he wants to get it tested..

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

> ronnie
> 
> would you conclude that the branded gh you used (which is ******* ??) was roughly 8 times as less potent?*not the ********** i tried but yes for the blue tops (big difference between those two brands but that does not apply to all sources of blue tops i suppose)*were results from 1 iu of pharm grade compairable to 8iu of china branded stuff no,* i would say the serostim (pharm grade) was almost twice as potent as the hyges and 8 times more potent than the blues. Something in that ball park is what i experienced but I cannot say for certain that the serostim was a lot better than the legit hyges looking back on things. It could be psychological but my wrist did hurt a lot more on phram grade* 
> i would think that some of the branded gh would be 100%* if that be the case, and it very well could be, then someone is sure making a ton of money selling gh!*i mean, a good product sells well, much better than an underdosed product *true*
> are we saying that even the well established brands are bunk???*the hyges i used were good so i am of the opinion that all chineese gh is not rubbish but like marcus stated, there's certainly appears to be plenty of rubbish gh coming out of china. I know the blue tops were a joke!* 
> why would they make a product that is not what it says it is* i think the scammers have figured out a way to do it but think about this for a moment- most of the legit powder that's being used to make ug steroids these days comes from china and we know some of it is very high quaility so i am led to believe some of the gh from china is also high quality. Not that i am going against what marcus says because i value his opinion dearly. I'm just speaking my mind on what i have seen and heard. It's hard to put it all into perspective but some of the stuff coming from china is good. I think we have to give them that credit but there is bad coming from there as well.*sure they can make money by scamming people or even underdosing the gh (8 times under), bu imo this makes no buisness sence...*no it doesn't but it does happen because it happened to me with blue tops but who knows if they even came from china!?*if some company in china could make 100% gh as good as us pharm grade for half the price why would they not do this? *i agree!*the problem is that no one can afford pharm grade gh, so people will always go to china *that appears to be the case with many things as china pretty much owns the u.s., etc these days*.


above in bold

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

> no marcus, you lie yet once again, i was banned at OLM because one specific DRUNK CORRUPT MOD decided i was not tellin the truth about being a PRO based on ip reading : ) thinking i would be dumb enough to have my real name on ip...thinking he knows the ppl behind ips...and wanted pics of me, THAT IS THE REASON, i have the highest reputation among all board members along the years since 1997, you again fail at proving your point. 
> BTW, i was already asked couple times to get back on that board and REFUSED. that board is dead for me because it was corrupt, anabolicreview on the other hand, was not known for corruption, until i heard your BS, then again as i said before and this goes to the next post under yours, do what you want, i never once tried to push china gh, i just stated MY EXPERIENCE. 
> 
> you are now risking this board from going same way OLM went, notice what happened when i left OLM, it started ....falling apart, few mods and vets left after me, in more than one way and more than one reason, the only reason it holds is because nordic wants it to and i like nordic so im fine with it, thats why i keep my mouth shut because i respect him. i could easily get back there by talking to nordic, i wont do it, i dont need that board, have plenty of others.
> 
> get your facts straight genious.


Easy now! The marcus I know isn't going to lie. If the stories have been misconscrewed then that's one thing but a liar he is not. It's best you pm him and keep this bickering off the open board IMO. He's a very sensible guy and will listen to you. Keep in mind you can't get on this board and disrepect the mods. If you disagree please do it nicely. And that goes for all board members.

----------


## marcus300

> no marcus, you lie yet once again, i was banned at OLM because one specific DRUNK CORRUPT MOD decided i was not tellin the truth about being a PRO based on ip reading : ) thinking i would be dumb enough to have my real name on ip...thinking he knows the ppl behind ips...and wanted pics of me, THAT IS THE REASON, i have the highest reputation among all board members along the years since 1997, you again fail at proving your point. 
> BTW, i was already asked couple times to get back on that board and REFUSED. that board is dead for me because it was corrupt, anabolicreview on the other hand, was not known for corruption, until i heard your BS, then again as i said before and this goes to the next post under yours, do what you want, i never once tried to push china gh, i just stated MY EXPERIENCE. 
> 
> you are now risking this board from going same way OLM went, notice what happened when i left OLM, it started ....falling apart, few mods and vets left after me, in more than one way and more than one reason, the only reason it holds is because nordic wants it to and i like nordic so im fine with it, thats why i keep my mouth shut because i respect him. i could easily get back there by talking to nordic, i wont do it, i dont need that board, have plenty of others.
> 
> get your facts straight genious.


Not only your a liar now you think this board will go down hill if you leave, are you for real?

Your a first class bullshitter, everyone can see through you and everyone can see your agenda,

You post in nearly every thread about gh pushing that not all Chinese gh is crap, then you say all you need is good source and then in your next sentence you state some remarkable result and you have the best source going, your a con man and full of shit lol.

You a pro, have you seen some of your advice? ive got more muscle in my ear than you! your just playing "kepyboard wanna be Pro" 

members be aware of this clown.

----------


## baseline_9

> above in bold


Thanks for your responces Ronnie


I can see why generic blue tops would be complete rubbish,, if u make a good product you want ur name on it, who wants there brand name related to sh1t gear...


My opinion would be that 'Brands' that have been around for a while are producing good GH...

Note the word 'Brand' and not 'source'

If Brand 'A' from china is begining to get good reviews from users across the world the next thing to happen will be 'sources' counterfiting and selling there generic Blue top sh1t as brand 'A' GH

----------


## Swifto

> *no marcus, you lie yet once again, i was banned at OLM because one specific DRUNK CORRUPT MOD decided i was not tellin the truth about being a PRO based on ip reading : ) thinking i would be dumb enough to have my real name on ip...thinking he knows the ppl behind ips...and wanted pics of me, THAT IS THE REASON, i have the highest reputation among all board members along the years since 1997, you again fail at proving your point.* 
> BTW, i was already asked couple times to get back on that board and REFUSED. that board is dead for me because it was corrupt, anabolicreview on the other hand, was not known for corruption, until i heard your BS, then again as i said before and this goes to the next post under yours, do what you want, i never once tried to push china gh, i just stated MY EXPERIENCE. 
> 
> you are now risking this board from going same way OLM went, notice what happened when i left OLM, it started ....falling apart, few mods and vets left after me, in more than one way and more than one reason, the only reason it holds is because nordic wants it to and i like nordic so im fine with it, thats why i keep my mouth shut because i respect him. i could easily get back there by talking to nordic, i wont do it, i dont need that board, have plenty of others.
> 
> get your facts straight genious.


Your completely full of shit.

You were asked to validate your claims, you didnt and then were booted. 

If/when you get banned from here, I dont think the staff will be falling apart here. 

Your delusional on a lot of levels.

Who and where can I find someone respected in this community that can verify your a "pro" if you refuse to do so. Who are these members that have been around as long as you have that can vouch for you? Where and who?

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## mighty1

@ ronnie

i lost all respect i had for him because he talks out of his ass, i dont pm ppl they pm me if they want me to talk to them and even then they need to BE HONEST AND NOT LIE, you need to understand i dont need this board, im not active on it and my sources are not some come and go internet wanna bees, they are solid, they dont need the boards, they do you a favor they are on your boards, the ones who really count, i have nothing against the members i try to help them by stating how it really is in the real world of BB, this board start looking more and more like the twin roided sister of MD boards, that the last thing anabolicreview wanted be sure of that, what i did is not called brain wash its called OPINION what he is doing on regular basis with china gh is called brain wash, now i hope this marcus is not the spanish marcus that claim to be on no gh on other boards, because if he is then he will have a problem in the long run. lets hope not.

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## mighty1

and to swifto, 
your obsession with me is the real sickness here, i know the kiss ass to mods fashion, but in reality if you think anything i say is doubtful then you will never see pro stage, you will sit here online, keep playing around with your 220 10% till the end of days, like many others do on md on here ect

im done trying to understand this stupidity, you like it when whats his face, phil hernon sell you seo and give you his misleading diet and drug advices, alright live with it, but dont ask yourself in few years how come you dont look like him in his prime , or maybe ....just maybe youll come up with the nonsense of "genetics" like the losers on MD do,

this is a joke, this all bodybuilders wanna be on internet that think they know what we do, you dont, and i still wont put a pic because your sorry ass wont come to bail me out when something goes wrong, and everything goes wrong with BBS, everything you can imagine.

so have a nice day and nice life and think im con while in reality im the one who's telling the truth.

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## marcus300

The facts are keyboard warrior (mighty1) 

You got banned from OLM for lying, giving bad advice and bullshitting

Your fantasy world what your in doesn't wash here, everyone can see through you,

You try and claim you have the best source for Chinese gh yet your source is a scammer and con man, your agenda here as been exposed,

You talk utter rubbish, you give bad advice and IMHO your some kid sat there packing around 150lbs trying to scam people into buying fake gh from you and your source,

Your a bull shitter and con man and no one here believes a word you say.

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## BJJ

Tried Somagena lastly and I would say it is similar to Jintropin and **********.

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## Ronnie Rowland

> Thanks for your responces Ronnie
> 
> 
> I can see why generic blue tops would be complete rubbish,, if u make a good product you want ur name on it, who wants there brand name related to sh1t gear...
> 
> 
> My opinion would be that 'Brands' that have been around for a while are producing good GH...
> 
> Note the word 'Brand' and not 'source'
> ...


Yes, I believe you just have to make sure you are not geting a counterfeited brand name. For example; the hyges I used were good but there are fake hyges as well. People talk about the pinwheel versions of hyges being fake. And having a reliable source will help.

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## Bigali

New to this thread only took me 4 days to read the whole thing....So had BW done on 12/21/10 for HGH serum levels...and this is what I did...
Fast 12 hours
Injected 10ius **'s yellow caps with labels SQ 50mins before test.
So my HGH serum levels were 5.6 the range was 0-6....so this only tells me I'm at the high end of there scale but not crazy over and not low so I'm still up in the air...with the HGH I have....so I guess I need to do a control test and then also test using tev tropin.

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## Juice Authority

> no marcus, you lie yet once again, i was banned at OLM because one specific DRUNK CORRUPT MOD decided i was not tellin the truth about being a PRO based on ip reading : ) thinking i would be dumb enough to have my real name on ip...thinking he knows the ppl behind ips...and wanted pics of me, THAT IS THE REASON, i have the highest reputation among all board members along the years since 1997, you again fail at proving your point. 
> BTW, i was already asked couple times to get back on that board and REFUSED. that board is dead for me because it was corrupt, anabolicreview on the other hand, was not known for corruption, until i heard your BS, then again as i said before and this goes to the next post under yours, do what you want, i never once tried to push china gh, i just stated MY EXPERIENCE. 
> 
> you are now risking this board from going same way OLM went, notice what happened when i left OLM, it started ....falling apart, few mods and vets left after me, in more than one way and more than one reason, the only reason it holds is because nordic wants it to and i like nordic so im fine with it, thats why i keep my mouth shut because i respect him. i could easily get back there by talking to nordic, i wont do it, i dont need that board, have plenty of others.
> 
> get your facts straight genious.



mighty, mighty, mighty....That drunk Mod at OLM you refer to is really not a bad guy. Is he is a drunk? Yes, but he's a funny one and a good friend. The fact of the matter is MANY people called you out to produce pics, or something verifying your BBing claims, not just the drunk Mod in question. You have made some rather outrageous claims about yourself, many times, even going so far as to say you competed on stage with Jay and Ronnie and that you are or were one of the top 3 BBers in the world. That's a fairly *bold* statement. Was your ban justified? Who knows? People get banned from OLM for all sorts of nonsense. I would know since I "was" a Mod there and witnessed firsthand the source protection and BS (one of my many reasons for stepping down). 

When did you become such good friends with Pep aka Nordic who claims his ND Blues are superior to all other Blue Tops yet they're produced in the same factory where countless others get their blue tops? Is it the "ND" sticker that makes Nordic's Blue Tops so special? Also, didn't Nordic once ban you as a customer? You do seem to go out of way to bump and praise Nordic every chance you get so I can certainly see why people would think you have an agenda. Is this your way of getting back in his good gracious? btw, Nordic really doesn't care. The guy has an ego the size of China so kissing his ass won't really benefit you that much. 

*I personally have no problem with you.* I do however have a very hard time believing your claims, especially since you've *NEVER* backed up any of them up. That said I think you're an alright guy. Marcus makes some valid points. If I had the option between Serostim or Chinese generics I'll go with Serostim all day long but I'm unwilling to "pay up" for them. I personally use generics because I think HGH in general is over-rated AND waaaay overpriced but jmho, so the cheaper the better. I've used pharma grade HGH and generics and didn't really notice that big of a difference between the two but again, I think GH is over-rated *for the recreational user* unless you're taking it with slin and IGF-1.

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## marcus300

Mighty is banned for lying and pushing fake Chinese gh, everything about him is false and is only some keyboard warrior in a fantasy world, we can all make outrageous claims but thats what the Internet is good for, you can claim to be anyone you want but in reality you have to back it up when asked and he never did, the guy is a another punk trying to make a few $$'s of the back of members selling them fake gh.

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## zabster151

ok so i have personly bought and used hgh from china. it only hurt me with major sides for 3.5 weeks after stopping use. ANYONE WHO WANTS TO TRY HGH FROM CHINA DON'T. ITS FAKE FAKE.. filled with garbage 

[email protected] China for this. so anyone who is considering taking hgh save your money and get american brand.

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## GH consumer

Hi,

I want to give my opinion on the Chinese GH debate.

We can all agree that pharm grade GH or any other medicine is most of the time superior to their generic counterpart.

However it would be also foolish and self-content to think that any and every-thing coming out of western countries is top notch and all of the other products coming from other countries are pure garbage.

Yes the regulations in western countries are top notch but what really is topnotch in most of the time is the marketing sourrounding many western products. 

This view of 'western is always better' is at the base of protecting western markets (and consumptionism on which our markets and lives are based) and has in most cases nothing to do with the truth. 

If for instance Apple can make their precious products in Asia then it is logical to understand that there are many other countries that have insitutions like western and in many cases better then western. 

A smal detour but look at schools in Soviet Union. They blow any same-level average western school out of the water. Look at Asian software market out of Singapore, Korea and Taiwan. Many examples are to be found of superior products coming from non-western countries and this should come to no one as any surprise.

It is good to be vigilant and have our eyes open but it would be foolish to presume that all non-western operations are sub-standard. This has hurt the west many times before and will not benefit us, ordinary people, when choosing our GH (or anything else).

For example a year or so ago China wanted to export one of their vehicles out to europe. With obvious advantages in lower price, good if not better quality and steady production, Europe wanted to protect their market from the Chinese push. 

The car was not allowed to be sold on basis of safety issues. To any clear thinking person it is obvious what EU. was doing but the average folks sitting at home thought and knew nothing about this and proudly spent their top-euro cash on cars that are just not worth it. 

Back to the point at hand. I have personally seen many people use GH from China under many names. 90% with great respond and results. 

I have also seen many people use pharm grade western GH and also be very content with the results.

Perhaps, and I repeat perhaps, the western GH laboratories are more on the cutting edge of standard but so is also their way overblown price. 

We should all not be impressed by anyone talking absolute conclusions on anything based purely on their own experience(and some others). As we all know, experience and point of view are products of our surroundings and not our own objective versions of the world.

----------


## Juice Authority

> This view of 'western is always better' is at the base of protecting western markets (and consumptionism on which our markets and lives are based) and has in most cases nothing to do with the truth.


The Chinese are the biggest counterfeiters in the world. Do they produce decent product? Yes, but they also run sweat shops and steal technology for mass production. Copyright laws don't exist in China or if they do they are certainly not enforced. Back to your point...manufacturing HGH is not rocket science if you have the right laboratory equipment. Sure, you need an IQ above 80 but a skilled trained monkey could probably put it off. Does that mean it's 100% pure? Hell no, but you get what you pay for. The Chinese cut corners and are all about mass production with little quality control or oversight. Their GMP standards aren't even remotely close to what the FDA requires of GMP facilities here in the US. At the end of the day, GH, whether it's 100% or 95% pure produces the same relative effect. The problem is there's an overall lack of consistency, but for a fraction of the cost of American GH, I can deal with that. GH is NOT the wonder drug people make it out to be. By itself, or in combination with AAS, the results are OK. Only when used with slin (the growth factor in GH) do you get the results that justify the cost.

----------


## GH consumer

By itself, or in combination with AAS, the results are OK. Only when used with slin (the growth factor in GH) do you get the results that justify the cost.[/QUOTE]

Well this is exactly the point. Defining results as OK or awesome or crap are purely subjective. If someone wants to be the biggest and driest they possibly humanly can, then thats the road that they will have to follow (a lot of AAS, GH, Slin and all the extras that need to be done). Sacrifice of a lot of time, thought, concentration and purpose to get to their goal.

On the other hand people who want to look like Frank Zane or some ripped but not grotesque looking guy wil be more then pleased with the effects of GH without Slin. 

More muscle does not for everyone equal better results and a step closer to their goals.

Some, if not most people, want to be able to live a normal life with their girlfriends, children and friends without having to think about slin timings, fast carbs, or xxxl shirts. Enjoy the fruits of their labour and knowledge without putting all of life's 'credit' on 1 or 2 things. 

So to conclude, not everybody sees more muscle as great or even wanted results. Other criteria are usually more, rightly so, important

----------


## Juice Authority

I can get more "ripped" with ECA, T3, a disciplined diet and cardio. GH has its place. I personally use it for collagen synthesis and connective tissue strength (the jury is still out on this benefit). I have realistic expectations of GH. People using it solely for fat loss or to pack on muscle mass are better served with cheaper and more effective compounds. I don't personally use slin and I'm not looking to get on stage and compete but for 37 I look pretty good.

----------


## Juice Authority

Let me put it this way. If I had only $500 to spend that money would go towards AAS, T3, ECA and supplements.

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## GH consumer

I believe we all can get more ripped on t-3, good cardio, excellent diet and some (or good amount) of AAS. 

But there is an unmistakable quality we can not reproduce without GH and all who know a lot of people on GH can testify to this.

Ripped without GH and ripped with GH (considering all other factors are the same) will be a significant if not major difference in look. 

Some call it the 3d look, some know why its been called that (more muscle cells etc) but most people can see the difference when GH has been properly used. 

Also the fact that GH (in proper doses) allows to have an so-so diet and sometimes even plain bad diet and still make good progress or atleast not go backwards, is a big plus in itself in this hectic society full of unhealthy foods.

----------


## Juice Authority

> I believe we all can get more ripped on t-3, good cardio, excellent diet and some (or good amount) of AAS. 
> 
> But there is an unmistakable quality we can not reproduce without GH and all who know a lot of people on GH can testify to this.
> 
> Ripped without GH and ripped with GH (considering all other factors are the same) will be a significant if not major difference in look. 
> 
> Some call it the 3d look, some know why its been called that (more muscle cells etc) but most people can see the difference when GH has been properly used. 
> 
> *Also the fact that GH (in proper doses) allows to have an so-so diet and sometimes even plain bad diet and still make good progress or atleast not go backwards*, is a big plus in itself in this hectic society full of unhealthy foods.


I'll agree with the part in the *bolds*. I feel much tighter and can eat sloppier on GH. Is that a reason to fork out hundreds of dollars/month? No.

----------


## 38jumper38

I friend bought some with " yellow tops " I never heard about, its anyone can comment on that? its a good or bad, I only hear from blue tops, thanks.

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## GH consumer

> I friend bought some with " yellow tops " I never heard about, its anyone can comment on that? its a good or bad, I only hear from blue tops, thanks.


As we all know there are many theories about what colour tops are the best.

Unfortunately also knowing that any top can be placed on any vial with white powder in it, we come to the conclusion that it is impossible to know the quality of the GH based purely on the colour of the top.

There are 2 solutions for this dilemma: get pharm grade or trust your source and take a well-thought out gamble.

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## Juice Authority

If you buy enough GH you can have them come with whatever color top you choose. Contrary to popular belief, there are only so many factories in China manufacturing GH for export. The color of the top means shit.

----------


## Fit N Fun

Have sorted out a reasonable cost method of identifying whether HGH is 191 amino acid molecular weight, the relative purity and also how much HGH is in the vial.

To complete the picture, I need to find a company to test for the biological activity of HGH, can anyone help with the name of the procedure / test that will provide this information

----------


## BigOldNorm

I have read this entire thread and would like to objectively describe my own experiences and observations while taking HGH. First, I want to say that I 
am 62 years old and have been passionate about bodybuilding for over 30 years. I was hesitant to use GH because of the cost and I had always read not to do it 
unless I could afford to do it for at least 6 months.
1.) First GH was Humatrope by Eli Lilly, cost was $16/iu. I bought it from a farmacia in TJ, they ordered for me as I bought 5 boxes at a time for 6 months.
2.) Started with 1iu daily and every two weeks increased the daily dose by 1iu. At 6ius daily, 3 in the AM and 3 post workout about 10PM, I started having 
pain in the joints of my hands and in my wrists. The pain was unbearable in bed and I had to take a Vicodin in order to sleep. This was sharp pain and 
not numbness. I eased the dose down to 4ius and the pain subsided.
3.) Within 3 months my body dramatically transformed: my bf dropped from about 15-16% to about 9-10% as measured at home with calipers. I also became 
extremely vascular. I have always been vascular, but when on the Humatrope my veins were pronounced and looked like ropes in my arms, legs, and abdomen.
This sold me on the benefits of GH as I was 51 years old and had never looked or felt so great in my life.
4.) So this is the next observation, when on Humatrope I felt very good both physically and mentally. There is a "feeling" that I have when I am on GH that 
is difficult to describe. My body was strong, and my workouts were very heavy and intense, I had no aches and pains, my thinking and mood was clear and
and positive. I guess this would be an overall increased feeling of well being.
5.) What I did not feel: no numbness in my hands or feet, no vivid dreams, no water retention, no headaches, my nails and hair grow very fast from AAS so 
I would never consider that as an effect from the GH.
6.) I also took 100mcg of T4 (Synthroid ) as I suffer from hypothyroidism when taking GH. This is one way that I know if I am taking real GH, if I do not 
supplement with Synthroid my thyroid level drops in the first few weeks on GH.
7.) My next experience with GH - I found out in 2005 that I would need my first back surgery. I wanted to start a low dose of GH a month before the surgery
and stay on it to help speed up the recovery.
8.) Ordered from the same farmacia in Mexico, but this time they ordered Saizen and it was only $13/iu. I was off all AAS and I started on 1iu of the Saizen GH,
25-50mg of Proviron and 100mcg of Synthroid. I experienced a very similar pattern with the Saizen that I had with the Humatrope. I did recover completely
from my surgery in about 8 weeks I was back in the gym doing light workouts, I looked great , and I also weaned off of all of my pain meds. I don't know if
the GH helped me wean of of the pain meds or not, but I experienced very little discomfort during the weaning process.
9.) I wanted to stay on a small dose of GH continuously for anti-aging, but wanted to find a less expensive brand, and in 2006 I hooked up with a guy in 
Shanghai that sent me 10 kits of Jintropins at a time directly from China, and the cost was only $2.5/iu. The kits had a anti-counterfeiting seal on each
kit, and I experienced the same exact pattern that I had with the Humatrope and Saizen, and I was very happy with the Jintropins. They were very good
quality GH as I experienced the same profile of effects from the Jintropins as I did with the Mexican GH.
10.) A couple of months before the Olympics in China, I think it was in the spring of 2007, my contact in China emailed me that he would have to stop shipping 
the Jintropin kits to the US because the government wanted stop all GH from leaving the country. I placed my last order for 10 kits and I have never heard
from this guy since.
11.) After I finished all of my Jintropin kits, it seemed as though the Chinese market had closed up, and I took a break because of the high cost of the Mexican GH.
12.) In 2009 the doctors told me I needed a triple fusion in my lower back, and I was scheduled for surgery in May. I knew it was time to start back on GH, and
I started shopping around, and found out that everyone was taking "Blue Tops" and "Red Tops" the the reviews on the forums were outstanding. I was 
ecstatic because the cost was only $1.50/iu unless you wanted to splurge and get the higher quality red tops for $1.75/iu. I bought them from a popular 
source on one of the biggest forums and they sucked big time. I thought something was wrong with me because there was never one negative comment
about any of the Blue Tops, and the guys reviewing the Red Tops acted like they were the best GH ever produced. So I bought a few more generics 
from another source, and they were also crap. I felt nothing from any of the Blue Tops and Red Tops that I ever bought and I bought quite a few before 
I just gave up. In the last two years I have found the market to be flooded with cheap generics that I would not pay you two cents for, because they 
are all worthless.
12.) From what I have observed, it seems that when people spend a considerable amount of money on a product they do not want to admit that they have 
been taken. Also, real GH even if you are willing to pay for it is not easy to come by these days. The market is flooded with fakes, counterfeits, and 
worthless generics. It seems as though the global scourn for all body & sports enhancement drugs has created an atmosphere in which shady marketing
practices have flooded the market with an abundance of worthless products.
I am just relaying my personal experiences over the last decade with HGH products. Regards, BigOldNorm

al

----------


## GH consumer

Thanks for writing it all down and sharing.

No doubt, the real pharma GH is the real deal and worth the coin if you have it.

Many people still want GH without departing with their coins, which brings this dilemma.

The real problem is establishing what brand does good generic GH and on consistent basis.

There are some that do the part (kigs, thanks and some more) but the doubt will always be there.

Because there are so many variables in making something work (like loosing fat) and most of the people are not scientifically inclined and cannot distinguish one compound from the other it leads to an array of extra distortion in an allready blury market.

Knowing your body, your source and the power of placebo are a good place to start.

Let the product prove itself and not otherway around.

----------


## marcus300

If your happy with buying Chinese rHGH carry on but in all honesty do you really think these labs what have no licence to produce rhgh are doing it in the right conditions are actually producing in it in the same way its suppose to. The equipment cost millions of dollars and the technical knowledge what is required to carry out the genetic manipulation isnt going to be the first things on their minds. That's why it cost millions of dollars and only a small few have a licence to produce it and only these multimillion dollar labs have the scientific knowledge required to make it in the correct way, to produce this hormone takes very special conditions and to keep this hormone active is even more technical, there is a reason why it costs so much money and if you buy cheap you get cheap.

I wont be buying Chinese rhgh ever again and i wouldn't use it if it was free, its full of stuff we haven't even heard of and if anyone has used pharm grade for any length of time at a dose what is required to physically change your body you will know what I am talking about, there isnt any good sources in China they are all in it for the same reason to make vast amounts of money selling chemical constructed fakes what are dangerous. 

I know I am pissing against the wind with many guys who wont except they are wasting their money and to be honest I am getting fed up of trying to convince the none believers, so I will leave it there and wish you the best of luck,

----------


## dec11

> If your happy with buying Chinese rHGH carry on but in all honesty do you really think these labs what have no licence to produce rhgh are doing it in the right conditions are actually producing in it in the same way its suppose to. The equipment cost millions of dollars and the technical knowledge what is required to carry out the genetic manipulation isnt going to be the first things on their minds. That's why it cost millions of dollars and only a small few have a licence to produce it and only these multimillion dollar labs have the scientific knowledge required to make it in the correct way, to produce this hormone takes very special conditions and to keep this hormone active is even more technical, there is a reason why it costs so much money and if you buy cheap you get cheap.
> 
> I wont be buying Chinese rhgh ever again and i wouldn't use it if it was free, its full of stuff we haven't even heard of and if anyone has used pharm grade for any length of time at a dose what is required to physically change your body you will know what I am talking about, there isnt any good sources in China they are all in it for the same reason to make vast amounts of money selling chemical constructed fakes what are dangerous. 
> 
> I know I am pissing against the wind with many guys who wont except they are wasting their money and to be honest I am getting fed up of trying to convince the none believers, so I will leave it there and wish you the best of luck,


im seriously thinking of quiting hgh until i can afford to buy pharma grade, the greek genetropin im on is def doing something but as you point out, how can anyone else except the big companies with the investment and know how produce proper potent hgh?

----------


## GH consumer

> how can anyone else except the big companies with the investment and know how produce proper potent hgh?


That is like saying how can anything good come out of a company that is not western. 

There are some bigger and better companies present in Asia then in the west. Example: China just bought 600 airplanes worth of 32 bilion dollars. Something EU or the USA can not do in 7-10 years. 

The knowledge and economical power are present outside of western countries.

Knowledge is not in hands of only big powerfull western companies.

Their marketing tells you that it is (to keep you misinformed and their customer) but logically it is obvious it is not. Not all knowledge is in our hands.

We cannot deny there are people and companies able to make good GH outside of the western world.

Indian, Chinese and other Asian scientists with just as good degrees and knowledge that are not working for western company.

As to the question why these facilities have no approval, well, it is not hard to see competition in any field and also in this Gh arena. ANy new company presents a danger to the market and must be kept out to protect own market. For reference see many many quality products coming out of non-western countries and being denied acces to our markets. 

If they are so bad then why deny them acces...?


Therefore we must at least assume and leave it open to testing that a generic can be worth out money.

If all generics are a bust how can we account for some peoples results that have tested their IGF-1 while using generics and it has been elevated much more than naturally possible?

And the countless people that have said they have excellent results and all the typical good and bad effects of good GH?

Yes pharm grade is good and yes some generics are good.

No point in arguing one way or another.

The case is clear just like in every open market: original=good but pricey, copy=can be bad and can be good.

Choose.

----------


## GH consumer

edit

----------


## dec11

> That is like saying how can anything good come out of a company that is not western. 
> 
> There are some bigger and better companies present in Asia then in the west. Example: China just bought 600 airplanes worth of 32 bilion dollars. Something EU or the USA can not do in 7-10 years. 
> 
> The knowledge and economical power are present outside of western countries.
> 
> Knowledge is not in hands of only big powerfull western companies.
> 
> Their marketing tells you that it is (to keep you misinformed and their customer) but logically it is obvious it is not. Not all knowledge is in our hands.
> ...


 i never mentioned western countries?

still backing the dodgy chinese, eh mighty1. hehehehe

----------


## GH consumer

> i never mentioned western countries?
> 
> still backing the dodgy chinese, eh mighty1. hehehehe


So you are open to the possibility that a generic might be as good or close to a pharm grade GH?

And no, I am still not Mighty1 despite your baseless and humorless accusations.

and the 'hehehe' points out that you are saying it not because you think I am him or that it is important (which is not) but just to be pissing in the other direction.

Says a lot.

----------


## dec11

> So you are open to the possibility that a generic might be as good or close to a pharm grade GH?
> 
> And no, I am still not Mighty1 despite your baseless and humorless accusations.
> 
> and the* 'hehehe'* points out that you are saying it not because you think I am him or that it is important (which is not) but just to be pissing in the other direction.
> 
> Says a lot.


no, that points to the fact tht you just cant help it with the 'not all chinese is bad' routine.

i trust few on here and marcus is one of them, if he says no to generics and chinese, thts good enough for me. and if im going to spend money on anymore hgh, i'm going to make damn sure its the best i can get.

----------


## GH consumer

> no, that points to the fact tht you just cant help it with the 'not all chinese is bad' routine.
> 
> i trust few on here and marcus is one of them, if he says no to generics and chinese, thts good enough for me. and if im going to spend money on anymore hgh, i'm going to make damn sure its the best i can get.


If you read the thread you will see it's not just me, far from it. Many people say generics are ok.

The point of a thread is not what all of us individually would or would not do. that's not important.

It's to discuss how and if generic GH is good or not. 

We all agree that pharm grade is the best. No arguing there. 

The dilemma is whether generic more accesible GH is ok-good-great or completely fake and not to be taken as in poison.

----------


## ramacher

Is there any American or European brand generics, or is it just pharm grade? Because correct me if I am wrong all the generics discussed on this board comes from China and I am not sure if there are any American generic gh suppliers.

----------


## BigOldNorm

No, there is not enough of a market for pharmaceutical companies to manufacture
generic brands of human growth hormone . In America and now in most
countries that have pharmaceutical companies that produce human growth hormone, GH is only approved to treat a small number of conditions. This limits the number of patients that are legally allowed to consume this product. It is a business, and a generic manufacturer is not going to spend 
the money to produce this expensive compound if they cannot sell it.
In China, the government severely limited the production of GH from 2008 to 2009 because of the Olympics. Pressure was put on China from the rest of 
the world to hold a "clean" Olympics, and the Chinese government took the 
license away from Gen-Sci completely in late 2007. So if anybody has Jintropin made byGen-Sci in the years 2008 to the present it has to be a counterfeit, because the company was not even producing GH. At the present time Gen-Sci has applied to the government to reinstate their license.
All Hyge****** is also counterfeit if it was made after mid 2007 because of the same restrictions. This is all public information that I got from news reports on the internet.
Since the world's supply of human growth hormone became restricted by government regulations in 2007 the demand by athletes, life extension enthusiasts, and the black market as a whole has grown tremendously. To fill this demand illegal labs in China started to produce cheap generics. Since the authentic products are protected by strict government regulations all over the world, these inexpensive Chinese generics became popular very quickly. The rest is history........... Every drug smuggler and convict started printing their own very professional looking labels, anti-counterfeiting stickers, and boxes to package cheap generics from China. They have also been clever enough to create their own websites to represent biopharm companies where you can go to check the authenticity of your product. When the price to the consumer is very low and the demand is extremely high it is the perfect environment to make a huge amount of money by playing on the wants and needs of people who desire something that they otherwise cannot afford.
It is tough economic times right now, and I live on disability and my retirement. I personally will never waste my money on a product that does not work, and could possibly be harmful to me. Respect to all, BigOldNorm

----------


## Matt

^^^ Good post...

----------


## dec11

> No, there is not enough of a market for pharmaceutical companies to manufacture
> generic brands of human growth hormone . In America and now in most
> countries that have pharmaceutical companies that produce human growth hormone, GH is only approved to treat a small number of conditions. This limits the number of patients that are legally allowed to consume this product. It is a business, and a generic manufacturer is not going to spend 
> the money to produce this expensive compound if they cannot sell it.
> In China, the government severely limited the production of GH from 2008 to 2009 because of the Olympics. Pressure was put on China from the rest of 
> the world to hold a "clean" Olympics, and the Chinese government took the 
> license away from Gen-Sci completely in late 2007. So if anybody has Jintropin made byGen-Sci in the years 2008 to the present it has to be a counterfeit, because the company was not even producing GH. At the present time Gen-Sci has applied to the government to reinstate their license.
> All Hyge****** is also counterfeit if it was made after mid 2007 because of the same restrictions. This is all public information that I got from news reports on the internet.
> Since the world's supply of human growth hormone became restricted by government regulations in 2007 the demand by athletes, life extension enthusiasts, and the black market as a whole has grown tremendously. To fill this demand illegal labs in China started to produce cheap generics. Since the authentic products are protected by strict government regulations all over the world, these inexpensive Chinese generics became popular very quickly. The rest is history........... Every drug smuggler and convict started printing their own very professional looking labels, anti-counterfeiting stickers, and boxes to package cheap generics from China. They have also been clever enough to create their own websites to represent biopharm companies where you can go to check the authenticity of your product. When the price to the consumer is very low and the demand is extremely high it is the perfect environment to make a huge amount of money by playing on the wants and needs of people who desire something that they otherwise cannot afford.
> It is tough economic times right now, and I live on disability and my retirement. I personally will never waste my money on a product that does not work, and could possibly be harmful to me. Respect to all, BigOldNorm


 nicely put

----------


## stickfigure71

i have used some jintropin, so this last message saying gen sci is banned got me interested...so i got on the internet and found a chinese tech conference that is going on in 2011....chpi china...definitely looks like a legit conference, anyway genscience has a booth there, they are on the list of exhibitors....(E2A20	GeneScience Pharmaceuticals Co., Ltd. ) I have no dog in this fight, but just trying to do my own research....

----------


## bjpennnn

I am no longer going to be taking rips and I am hoping on the band wagon. I would rather spend my money on gear and maybe some sweet white water rafting trips lol.

----------


## BigOldNorm

The last off brand of GH that I bought that was authentic Growth Hormone was Syntropin (not Sytropin) and it was made by Synthrop Labs a partner with Ax** Labs
that was distributed by a well known website that was suddenly shut down. I kick my self for not stocking up, because it was authentic GH and you will probably 
never find real GH for that price ever again!! It will be my goal to find the best price for genuine GH no matter how long it takes, and when I do I will promise to 
share it with anyone who is interested! If anyone else also comes across this I would be very grateful if you would share your find with me also. Thanks to everyone
for a great thread and hopefully one that will produce the information that everyone who participated is looking for. Respect, BigOldNorm
No emails, edit

----------


## SlimmerMe

^^^^hey BigOldNorm.....might want to remove your email....asking for a iot of trouble .....

----------


## Fixr

delete

----------


## The Hyena

ok so the questions i have from reading this thread are:

1. are there NO real blue tops from China ?
2. is there a lab where i could take a bottle to get it tested ?
3. HGH is only good if you run it with slin (and IGF-1) ?
edit,

----------


## supe3

> ok so the questions i have from reading this thread are:
> 
> 1. are there NO real blue tops from China ? *I could sell you something with a blue top on it and I live next to a someone from China. Does that count? The point im making you the color of the top dont mean SHIZNIT.*
> 2. is there a lab where i could take a bottle to get it tested ? *NOPE, unless you want to call your body a lab? a lot of guys do!*
> 3. HGH is only good if you run it with slin (and IGF-1) ? *No, not at all, HGH is only good if you are really running HGH*edit,


use the search function and READ brother

----------


## The Hyena

> ok so the questions i have from reading this thread are:
> 
> 1. are there NO real blue tops from China ?
> 2. is there a lab where i could take a bottle to get it tested ?
> 3. HGH is only good if you run it with slin (and IGF-1) ?
> edit,


oops sorry...

----------


## sinogesic

Hi, I've just joined this site today, but have been following this thread closely. I'm 32 and currently on Riptropins 5 iu daily and due to this thread, I decided I should get my blood checked to see if the Riptropins were indeed HGH or not. I have used IP yellow tops in the past, but could not get them shipped to my location (last two orders were seized), but managed to get Riptropins in.

For the tests that I am posting, I fasted for 15 hours and injected 5 iu approximately 90 minutes before blood was drawn. As the hospital I use does not do lab testing for GH and IGF-1 on site, it was sent to a third party testing facility (they do test and cholesterol on site in about an hour). If any mod would like the name of the hospital I use I will be happy to give that by PM.

As you can see, my GH levels are significantly higher than the reference range, but my IGF-1 levels are still normal. The results are exactly as I received minus some of my personal info. I have no dog in this fight, but am just sharing my test results with everybody.

----------


## Fit N Fun

Guy's,

Seems to me that you are going about this the wrong way, looking for anecdotal evidence of whether you have HGH

There are many people on here spending lots of money on HGH without a clue whether they have anything worthwhile injecting.

I sent a vial of HGH to a lab to have it tested for purity and whether it was 191 Amino Acids, this tells you most of what you need to know. I still need to find a way to test for the biological activity of the HGH

Here is part of the information provided from the test results.

· The protein concentration was very close to the concentration given by the manufacturer (experimental: 1.7 mg/ml, on the label: 1.6 mg/ml).

· SDS-PAGE analysis indicates that the proteins is very pure 



· 


· MALDI-TOF analysis confirms the purity assessment by SDS-PAGE. All three peaks show a shoulder with a mass difference of 206 Da – this is not due to an impurity, it is the result of the formation of an adduct with sinapinic acid, the matrix that was used for the MALDI-MS experiment.





· 


· The observed molecular weight of 22125 ± 8 Da corresponds well with the expected molecular weight of 22130 for the 22 kDa form of human growth hormone (see http://www.expasy.org/cgi-bin/pi_t[email protected]). This is the processed somatotropin with 191 amino acids.


To complete the picture, I need to find someone to test the biological activity of HGH, please if anyone knows if this test has a special name, can they let me know.

The cost for the above analysis was less than $250 and is IMHO a good investment to know that I am not injecting rubbish.

Before doing the above test, I contacted some of the board moderators to discuss what was being done.

I also feel it may also be possible for the mods to sort out a way where a number of us contribute to the cost of HGH sample analysis and pay a small fee to verify that their chosen supplier is selling quality gear.

----------


## SlimmerMe

sinogesic:

please start a new thread for your question to get personal input....
might help you get more responses

WELCOME TO THE HGH forum

----------


## NotSmall

> Hi, I've just joined this site today, but have been following this thread closely. I'm 32 and currently on Riptropins 5 iu daily and due to this thread, I decided I should get my blood checked to see if the Riptropins were indeed HGH or not. I have used IP yellow tops in the past, but could not get them shipped to my location (last two orders were seized), but managed to get Riptropins in.
> 
> For the tests that I am posting, I fasted for 15 hours and injected 5 iu approximately 90 minutes before blood was drawn. As the hospital I use does not do lab testing for GH and IGF-1 on site, it was sent to a third party testing facility (they do test and cholesterol on site in about an hour). If any mod would like the name of the hospital I use I will be happy to give that by PM.
> 
> As you can see, my GH levels are significantly higher than the reference range, but my IGF-1 levels are still normal. The results are exactly as I received minus some of my personal info. I have no dog in this fight, but am just sharing my test results with everybody.


Great info but just playing devils advocate for a second - we have no way of knowing that you actually injected Riptropin, for all we know you own or distribute Riptropin and purchased some Pharma GH to produce some good test results to post here in order to boost Riptropin sales - I am not for one second suggesting that this is the case, just pointing out that what you have posted could not be considered as evidence. 





> sinogesic:
> 
> please start a new thread for your question to get personal input....
> might help you get more responses
> 
> WELCOME TO THE HGH forum


I didn't see a question  :Hmmmm:

----------


## sinogesic

> Great info but just playing devils advocate for a second - we have no way of knowing that you actually injected Riptropin, for all we know you own or distribute Riptropin and purchased some Pharma GH to produce some good test results to post here in order to boost Riptropin sales - I am not for one second suggesting that this is the case, just pointing out that what you have posted could not be considered as evidence. 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't see a question


This is all possible. However, I didn't post this to prove one way or another to anybody but myself, but thought I would share the results with everybody else. Riptropins aren't even my first choice; my first choice is no longer available to be shipped to my location.

Slimmer me: There is no question in this post, I was just sharing test results like others have done.  :Smilie:

----------


## ecsaaron

Someone said a few posts back that theirs tested 95% pure than what is the other 5%?

----------


## Far from massive

Thanks Marcus and Sheven,

As many of you know I am old in age but new to AAS and growth. I have never done growth mainly because of the cost, but after being around a half a year and reading and learning on this board as well as med journals etc I now know a little about steroids and growth and have found sources for powder and generic growth, so I now know how to get fairly cheap growth but wanted to read up on the stuff first. 

I knew that a lot of small time operators packaged hcg and other garbage additives to mimic growth hormone , but of course while all of these might produce sides that mimic actual growth they would not produce the expected/desired changes in bloodwork.

However what I did not know and am very glad to find out ( THANKS SHEVEN! ) is that cortisone is used as a cut to get more milage out of underdosed growth. See if the growth was just weaker and only gave you 70% or even 50% of the increase of Pharma grade as measured by blood tests but only cost 20% as much it would be a great deal....But if they use cortisone or other harmful ingredients in addition to the actual growth to achieve better customer response then I would not use the shit if it were free.


Thanks for a great thread,

FFM

----------


## marcus300

^^^ Thats why I wouldnt use it if it was free and I wouldnt use it if someone paid me to, Chinese hgh is second rate crap, use pharm grade for 12 months and see what real hgh will do for you.

----------


## Far from massive

Marcus,

Please tell me you are saying if I do pharm grade for 12 months my legs will look like that, if so the checks in the mail.....

Is that you in the pic? if so very freakin impressive!

----------


## marcus300

No its not me, its Paco

----------


## Fit N Fun

> Thanks Marcus and Sheven,
> 
> As many of you know I am old in age but new to AAS and growth. I have never done growth mainly because of the cost, but after being around a half a year and reading and learning on this board as well as med journals etc I now know a little about steroids and growth and have found sources for powder and generic growth, so I now know how to get fairly cheap growth but wanted to read up on the stuff first. 
> 
> I knew that a lot of small time operators packaged hcg and other garbage additives to mimic growth hormone , but of course while all of these might produce sides that mimic actual growth they would not produce the expected/desired changes in bloodwork.
> 
> However what I did not know and am very glad to find out ( THANKS SHEVEN! ) is that cortisone is used as a cut to get more milage out of underdosed growth. See if the growth was just weaker and only gave you 70% or even 50% of the increase of Pharma grade as measured by blood tests but only cost 20% as much it would be a great deal....But if they use cortisone or other harmful ingredients in addition to the actual growth to achieve better customer response then I would not use the shit if it were free.
> 
> 
> ...


So it matters not to you that I have had my Chinese HGH tested by a University lab using Maldi Tof and Mass Spectrometer analysis showing there was more HGH in the sample than claimed by the manufacturer and also that it was very pure.

In case you missed it here are a couple of points from my last post on this thread :-

· The protein concentration was very close to the concentration given by the manufacturer (experimental: 1.7 mg/ml, on the label: 1.6 mg/ml).

· SDS-PAGE analysis indicates that the proteins is very pure

----------


## marcus300

No it matters not to me!

You need to have a full analysis done of the contents many contain fillers, you also need to see if the rhgh is active which is very important, the transportation and the manufacturing is vital for this delicate hormone and from some of my contacts in China I hear they are not producing this hormone in the right conditions only the licenced labs are, thus inactive hormone.

----------


## Fit N Fun

Marcus,

The results of the tests were very clear on the subject of fillers, the following statement clearly identifies there were no fillers.

SDS-PAGE analysis indicates that the proteins is very pure
On the subject of whether the hormone is active, I completely agree that this aspect needs testing since the hormone is very delicate.

I have asked for help in identifying the name of the test that is used to verify this, but so far I have not managed to identify who / how to do this.

The manufacturer I use is registered and approved in China, but I have no intention of disclosing who the manufacturer is or claiming that it is good gear, only declaring the tests that I have been successful in having carried out.

Once I have found out how to have the activity of the hormone tested I will share the results good or bad.

Anecdotal reports of efficacy serve no useful purpose, an opinion has no verifyable result. A quality testing regime is the only way forward.

----------


## marcus300

If you have a licenced chinese lab ( like i stated) then you will be ok because they are governed and inspected, the problem occurs when they are not licenced and throw out all types of shit.

----------


## Fit N Fun

Good point Marcus and as you also pointed out the transportation and handling of such a delicate hormone is of equal importance, so even if the lab produces a great quality product, there is no guarantee that it will arrive on your door step in an active condition, so it would be great to find a method to test for the level of activity of the hormone.

----------


## Calcium

Results from Chinese rhgh are not what you would get from pharm grade. I use to use pharm grade and the results and things what can be achieved from real rhgh are amazing. The Chinese normally feed igf-1 into their rhgh or some water retaining compound which gives you CT. Another thing to consider is we all use steroids along side rhgh so how do you really know whats giiving the gains! pay the money and see what pharm grade rhgh can achieve, its expensive for a reason, my 2 cents

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## Fit N Fun

Pharm grade is not available to all of us, hence my quest to test the products that are available.

It's easy to throw mud about what the Chinese normally do, show us some test results that backs up your claim that manufacturers feed igf-1 into their rhgh or some water retaining compound?

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## marcus300

Read the whole thread, there's loads of prove from the sides many people have had and the blood tests what some have shown. I've used both types for many years a piece and results are not the same or sides, I've also been told from some Chinese sources .

This is what this whole is about,

----------


## papacake

Hey i hope i aint seen as hijacking ur post or anything like that but im from scotland and ive just started using but whats the differance wi pharma grade hgh and other hgh. Im a novixe and dont wanna inject shit into me, im using lixus 100iu is this one ok or can u tell me what is a good product I cant get help anywhere!!!!!!

----------


## SlimmerMe

^^^^ please edit your post and take out asking where to buy from since not allowed to ask for sources....before you get into trouble....

there is help here...it takes time sometimes..so hold tight

----------


## kesam1

Just an idea that some of the more educated than me guys might be able to elaborate on. Genuine Rhgh when given to my type1 diabetic body causes a rise in insulin resistance and consequent blood sugar readings for roughly 18 to 24 hrs. Other hormones and peptides do not have this effect. Other than a combo of GHRH and GHRPs which give a rise for 2hrs. In my simple brain, other than to have you're own pet diabetic to test this might not be helpful but with the thinking power there is on this board, someone may come up with some benefit to this situation to differentiate between good fake weak and strong product

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## 38jumper38

Just got my blood results and my Chinese its good. My Insulin -Like Growth Factor I is 276 ng/nl when it's ranged 109-284. Prior bw shows at 104.

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## marcus300

The Chinese put igf into their generic hgh and also anti duretic hormones and AI's ,

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## 38jumper38

good to know, thanks.

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## LeanGreenMachine

I've been following this thread for a while now and wanted to give my "opinion". I was using parma grade HGH from my AA doc for about 3 months until a friend told me about Chinese Eli's (Elitropin green tops) at 1/10th the price. I made the switch and absolutely could not tell the difference. I love them!!! I am extremely sensitive to the HGH sides, especially a form of CTS called Cubital Tunnel Syndrome, and these sides did not reduce at all after I switched. I have been running the Eli's and AAS for almost a year now (blasting and cruising) and definently seeing results in everything, muscle, hair, skin, nails, etc. 

I finally got convinced when a source (please don't ask) posted the attached test results on another board. The HGH was tested to be 97.3% pure! This is excellent for HGH because some is lost during the testing itself as I understand. This is proof enough for me that *some* Chinese HGH is excellent quality.

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## BJJ

^^^
Glad for you

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

I'm not saying your GH is no good or that yours is not working and I'm sure Marcus will chime in on this, but the purity tests on HGH are not a reliable marker as to the potency of the HGH because putting together the 191 amino acid chain is not the hard part. The most important test is what measures whether or not it's biologically active. HGH is a live peptide and even if it tests that it's 100% pure, that says nothing as to whether or not the amino acid chain is biologically active and will be effective. This test is supposedly in the 10's of thousands of dollars to perform.

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## turk1968

My concern would be "how do you know that the test results are from the make of hgh you have recieved ?" not just a test result from a small sample of pharma grade hgh put in its place.

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## Fit N Fun

> My concern would be "how do you know that the test results are from the make of hgh you have recieved ?" not just a test result from a small sample of pharma grade hgh put in its place.


The test results below are from HGH I sent to the lab, so there is no question in my case that it is 100% 191AA

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## marcus300

> I've been following this thread for a while now and wanted to give my "opinion". I was using parma grade HGH from my AA doc for about 3 months until a friend told me about Chinese Eli's (Elitropin green tops) at 1/10th the price. I made the switch and absolutely could not tell the difference. I love them!!! I am extremely sensitive to the HGH sides, especially a form of CTS called Cubital Tunnel Syndrome, and these sides did not reduce at all after I switched. I have been running the Eli's and AAS for almost a year now (blasting and cruising) and definently seeing results in everything, muscle, hair, skin, nails, etc. 
> 
> I finally got convinced when a source (please don't ask) posted the attached test results on another board. The HGH was tested to be 97.3% pure! This is excellent for HGH because some is lost during the testing itself as I understand. This is proof enough for me that *some* Chinese HGH is excellent quality.


The test doesn't mean you have active hgh, it isn't worth anything to be honest. You need to know if the hormone is active, Chinese labs are knocking these tests out in all directions. I've been told many things about Chinese hgh and I've experienced a lot more, I'd never buy any kind of coloured top gh again even if it was free I'd throw it away.

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## MR-FQ320

what about that band Phil Collins used to be in ? the first chapter of the bible ? there GH any good ?

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## Hazard

> what about that band Phil Collins used to be in ? the first chapter of the bible ? there GH any good ?




~Haz~

----------


## MR-FQ320

^^^^ is it allowed ?

----------


## Hazard

LMAO I just posted the pic because it made me laugh - probably not a prob.....

~Haz~

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## Mealticket

> ^^^ Thats why I wouldnt use it if it was free and I wouldnt use it if someone paid me to, Chinese hgh is second rate crap, use pharm grade for 12 months and see what real hgh will do for you.


Dont know what i missed but i got to page 9 and skipped to the end. 
hate to burst your bubble but i can produce a lab test with Gh levels off the chart while the client was using pinwheel Hyde.
 :Smilie:

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## marcus300

Means nothing ^^^ read the whole thread and read up on gh tests . If you happy you carry on but I wouldnt use them if they were free.

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## Mealticket

how can it mean nothing. It discredits and contradicts what you and some others are saying....but o.k. lol..Lab results dont lie

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## marcus300

Please do more research on gh lab test and read the whole thread.
If you happy you carry on. 
Best of luck to you

----------


## Mealticket

im not getting into a pissing contest here im just stating the facts that i have. Choose to believe what you want. I could care less. I'm just giving you my input. 
I've been around these boards longer than you so i don't need you to tell me to do more research on Gh lab tests. I've done my research and the test i can produce is dated three years before this thread ever started. I was getting blood results tested for clients far before anyone else ever posted about it. I've been around it long enough to form my own opinion, and express that opinion without some "hall of famer" telling me to go do more research. You can have your educated opinion and i will have mine.
And i have read the rest of the thread. Like some other Vet said. I believe it's all about who your source is.

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## marcus300

You really need to do more research on gh lab test because your alittle behind the times, i am also not interested in you being here longer than me, what does that prove!

If you cant be bothered to read the whole thread and take in the comments and experience then you have your head in the sand more than I first thought.

Youe entitled to your opinion and thanks for giving it, all ive said is do more research on the subject. 

Again, if you happy you carry on but I wouldnt use them if they were free

best of luck to you  :Smilie:

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## Mealticket

a little behind the times?...please....you have no idea who i really am or what i do. So keep the belittling to yourself, i certainly don't want to hear it. Im not going to dignify you again with a response. As stated previously, ive done my research and will choose to believe what i know to be fact. Insult me again. It only shows your ignorance and lack of ability to take criticism or input from another educated and experienced steroid .com member. Carry on boys, carry on!.

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## marcus300

What kind of gh test was it?
What were the gh levels before gh use?
How long after the blood was drawn was it analysed?
Was the test blood droplets or was it drawn?
When was the last gh shot before the test?
What was your baseline levels?

I dont care who you are and like i keep saying if you happy with your chinese gh stick with it  :Smilie: 


( read the whole thread)

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## Calcium

I can see good and bad all over this thread, makes interesting reading. 

Boils down to if you want to risk taking something what isn't 100% licenced no matter how cheap it is do we want to inject something what isn't tested and guaranteed

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## Fit N Fun

Calcium,

Think you are over simplifying things.

Pharma products are not available to most, therefore most of what we inject is done so on trust.

For products like Testosterone , Deca etc there is a good track record from many companies that supply products that are reasonably priced and can easily be seen to work or not.

HGH is an expensive product that has a subtle but quality effect that takes time to achieve and is therefore very hard to get the same instant trust from the suppliers.

I have every reason to believe that there are a number of scammers out there and the Chinese are expert at it, lets not kid ourselves.

However, testing is possible to verify the purity of the HGH, there is probably also a test for activity level of HGH as well, but I have yet to find out what this test might be.

So for now caution is best advised when purchasing HGH.

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## NinjaBomb

> The Chinese put igf into their generic hgh and also anti duretic hormones and AI's ,


Marcus, I don't wanna to be rude.. I'm only curious...

Can you prove that? Did you have a test for it?

Thanks

----------


## Matt

^^^ Many peoples results when using Chinese shit proves what Marcus is saying, including what ive had from there...

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## Sc0rch

A lot of people's results also disprove what he is saying.

I have been using Chinese generic for almost two years now, and my blood pressure has gone DOWN significantly. I have dropped almost two waist sizes without a diet change. 

You can get faked pharm grade just like you can get faked Chinese, so I don't understand the pharm agenda a few people have here. 

I am very satisfied with the cost and results of my red tops and will continue to use them.

----------


## Fevershock

> A lot of people's results also disprove what he is saying.
> 
> I have been using Chinese generic for almost two years now, and my blood pressure has gone DOWN significantly. I have dropped almost two waist sizes without a diet change. 
> 
> You can get faked pharm grade just like you can get faked Chinese, so I don't understand the pharm agenda a few people have here. 
> 
> I am very satisfied with the cost and results of my red tops and will continue to use them.



Just to piggy back on the above:

I've been running blue tops since X-Mas and am very pleased with my results. If names and titles are important to some, my doctor is also supplying some notable Pro BB's and a NFL football team. They are all extremely happy with the results they're getting.

I feel like it's the BS crap that gives a bad name to the stuff. Granted, most of it is trash, but there are some that stick out from the rest.

----------


## marcus300

When you realize what they put in their gh and you have used pharm grade gh you will understand how crap Chinese gh is. If your happy buying from a second rate none licenced lab you carry on but I'd seek to get it tested imho.

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## turk1968

Great programme last night about counterfeit tabacco from China , should of seen the additional shit and SUPER high levels of nasties in them compared to normal tobacco. I know its not hgh but !!! 
This is what worries me its what else is in them we dont know about . Gains at what cost !! 
Pharma grade for me know. 
It would be great to test some of the ug aas we take to see what else may be in them as most powders come from China aswell!!

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## Fevershock

> When you realize what they put in their gh and you have used pharm grade gh you will understand how crap Chinese gh is. If your happy buying from a second rate none licenced lab you carry on but I'd seek to get it tested imho.


Fair enough. Everyone has their opinion. I hear this a lot, so I'm sure it holds some validity.

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## bmit

DISCLAIMER: I am a believer in generally you get what you pay for.

However, I think there are some good values out there if you are smart enough to look around and lucky enough to find it. Just got my blue tops tested and waited a few weeks to get tested. I am at 795 IGF. In school so can't afford pharma. But if i had the money i would only buy top grade pharma. So my advice would be to get always get an IGF test.

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## marcus300

> DISCLAIMER: I am a believer in generally you get what you pay for.
> 
> However, I think there are some good values out there if you are smart enough to look around and lucky enough to find it. Just got my blue tops tested and waited a few weeks to get tested. I am at 795 IGF. In school so can't afford pharma. But if i had the money i would only buy top grade pharma. So my advice would be to get always get an IGF test.


Your better getting the gh vial tested for purity and to see if its an active hormone, getting a simple IGF test done is worthless seeing that alot put IGF in their hgh. But I agree on all the other parts best of luck.

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## blackbird

Why would your nails and hair grow faster if the chinese hgh is fake.?
That seems to me an indicator it must be real?

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## cyounger100

> If you have a licenced chinese lab ( like i stated) then you will be ok because they are governed and inspected, the problem occurs when they are not licenced and throw out all types of shit.


how do you know if your stuff came from a licensed lab though marcus ??

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## Fit N Fun

I can post links to most of the HGH manufacturers if Marcus or one of the Mods lets me know this is appropriate

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## cyounger100

> I can post links to most of the HGH manufacturers if Marcus or one of the Mods lets me know this is appropriate



yea but how will i know what companies manu. it all it says on my stuff is riptropin the brand

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## therealachilles

> With respect I don't think that report carries any weight whatsoever then, anyone could make something like that up. It needs to be bake to be validated to be taken seriously IMO.


and this is y if i know nothing else i will consider ur opinion on this subject. someone made a claim and u wanted to see the evidence. 
i recently tore my achilles and i was lookin at hgh to help with the healing process, i am 26 and was in impeccable shape (resting heartrate of 55 bpm) when i sustained the injury. i have been reading all over over about chinese bluetops and yellow's and every other color, its has hcg in it or its weaker and a pos pregnancy test can tell u if its hcg and crazyness. so i have done my research and now my concern is quality. and i have been following and i guess pharm grade is the way to go. but then of course as i type this i dont know what "pharm grade", (pharmaceutical grade obviously) actually is. i was leaning towards something like serostim or glotropin, but then how do i know if thats real??!!! 


good thread though, the most helpful one i have seen.

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## Fit N Fun

> yea but how will i know what companies manu. it all it says on my stuff is riptropin the brand


Lol ............. which part of links to the manufacturers is confusing you.

I did not say suppliers.

HGH requires a huge investment in equipment to manufacture, so there are very few manufacturers in the world.

There is also a huge amount of miss-information, particularly on who produces 191AA and 192AA versions of HGH, I know because the HGH I use is widely reported to be 192AA, yet I have mine tested by a university lab as 191AA.

For me the only way to buy HGH is directly from the manufacturer and since there are only a handful of them, they are not that hard to track down.

----------


## slimshady01

So i just recieved Rips 

After reading through this entire thread im nervous and feel like this stuff is bunk..

are there any more updates?

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## Sgt. Hartman

You should edit your post man.

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## Fit N Fun

Found this quote on a HGH manufacturers website.

When taking HGH the transportation of amino acids goes up as well as the rate of protein synthesis. 

These are actually affected by IGF-1 which happens to be a very anabolic hormone that is made in the liver as well as other tissues. 

This is triggered by HGH and when one takes human growth hormone injections like Jintropin, peak levels of IGF-1 are sure to be seen about 20 hours or so afterwards.

For those wishing to use blood tests to proove the efficassy of their HGH, the suggestion is that you should test for IGF-1 20 hours after your injection.

----------


## cyounger100

> Lol ............. which part of links to the manufacturers is confusing you.
> 
> I did not say suppliers.
> 
> HGH requires a huge investment in equipment to manufacture, so there are very few manufacturers in the world.
> 
> There is also a huge amount of miss-information, particularly on who produces 191AA and 192AA versions of HGH, I know because the HGH I use is widely reported to be 192AA, yet I have mine tested by a university lab as 191AA.
> 
> For me the only way to buy HGH is directly from the manufacturer and since there are only a handful of them, they are not that hard to track down.


well i did the whole goin too the website and putting the serial number of all kits on the manu. website should that be a good sign and also the only way too test if for real is send too lab and have tested for 191aa then ?

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## Fit N Fun

> well i did the whole goin too the website and putting the serial number of all kits on the manu. website should that be a good sign and also the only way too test if for real is send too lab and have tested for 191aa then ?


Sounds OK as long as you have the manufacturers website and not a scammer website.

For instance GenSci that manufacture Jintropin list a number of scammers on their website that appear to be GenSci but are not.

Happy to provide a list of the scammers from the GenSci website if Marcus or another Mod advises this is OK

----------


## |2ogue

> Sounds OK as long as you have the manufacturers website and not a scammer website.
> 
> For instance GenSci that manufacture Jintropin list a number of scammers on their website that appear to be GenSci but are not.
> 
> Happy to provide a list of the scammers from the GenSci website if Marcus or another Mod advises this is OK


Can we get some of these sites that Fit N Fun is talking of posted admin, or would it be in breach of the forum rules? I'm just interested to see some of them.
Cheers.

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## slimshady01

> well i did the whole goin too the website and putting the serial number of all kits on the manu. website should that be a good sign and also the only way too test if for real is send too lab and have tested for 191aa then ?


My thing is and I know you are talking about Rips. Is what if that whole company is a scam. Their whole operation could be bunk along with the serial codes.

----------


## wmaousley

Not gonna happen guys

----------


## cyounger100

> Sounds OK as long as you have the manufacturers website and not a scammer website.
> 
> For instance GenSci that manufacture Jintropin list a number of scammers on their website that appear to be GenSci but are not.
> 
> Happy to provide a list of the scammers from the GenSci website if Marcus or another Mod advises this is OK


i need too find out if that riptropin site is a fraud then my numbers match up there

----------


## cyounger100

> My thing is and I know you are talking about Rips. Is what if that whole company is a scam. Their whole operation could be bunk along with the serial codes.


it def could be im not sure how too find out for sure but i am getting really good results off these things though

----------


## slimshady01

well thats what i like to hear. Ive been on 3iu for close to 2 weeks and havent had any sides other then getting sick and losing my voice for a week so far. Im sure it has nothing to do with the HG though. 

IM going to keep running 3iu for a while then maybe go to 4iu. 

will i get fat burning from 3iu and how long till you start noticing results? 3 months?

----------


## cyounger100

i have started too see really good fat loss at 5 ius at week 4 hands swollen like a muther fcker on 5 ius though other than that good too go im sure you will get good fat burning at 3 iu for my 5 seems too be perfect i will stay at that dose for rest of year

----------


## bighauss

I have tried to get rips in the US but have not had any luck. I was using blue tops, did that for a month and switched to Hyge (generic). I am on week 6 now @ 4 IU. 20 IU per week. I feel great. Seem to bounce back from workouts quickly. Started leaning a little in the chest, shoulders and arms. I am ready for the belly to lean down.
What do you guys think of using peptides with the HG?

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

> When you realize what they put in their gh and you have used pharm grade gh you will understand how crap Chinese gh is. If your happy buying from a second rate none licenced lab you carry on but I'd seek to get it tested imho.


marcus is not intentionally trying to slam chineese generics guys. He's providing you with over 10 years of experience after having used various GH coming from China. He's handing out accurate advice IMO. I wish it weren't true but the generics do not compare to pharm grade which tells you it's not 100% pure GH. Think of your health not your wallet!

----------


## jimi1

I used 5ius/day chinese yellow tops for 3 months and my blood test on igf-1 levels shot up dramatically. Some sources are legit.

----------


## SlimmerMe

> marcus is not intentionally trying to slam chineese generics guys. He's providing you with over 10 years of experience after having used various GH coming from China. He's handing out accurate advice IMO. I wish it weren't true but the generics do not compare to pharm grade which tells you it's not 100% pure GH. *Think of your health not your wallet!*


*x 1 trillion!*

----------


## marcus300

> I used 5ius/day chinese yellow tops for 3 months and my blood test on igf-1 levels shot up dramatically. Some sources are legit.


You need to read the whole thread before making comments like that,

Do you know that IGF test instantly degrades, 
To even get a good reading timing is very important from when the blood was taken to being tested,
IGF test are not accurate, to many variations to form a proper reading.

Also, its known alot of the generics put IGF in the hgh vial.

If you happy you carry on, but you should try pharm grade and you will see a hugh difference.

There are also no concern threads relating to pharm grade hgh!!

best of luck

----------


## jimi1

I stopped using it anyway, didn't do much by itself except make slightly leaner. 
So if you have 2 unmarked vials, one US pharm, one chinese, how can you test the actual compound to make sure it's hgh?

----------


## marcus300

> I stopped using it anyway, didn't do much by itself except make slightly leaner. 
> So if you have 2 unmarked vials, one US pharm, one chinese, how can you test the actual compound to make sure it's hgh?


Finding a lab what test's for the hormones being active is hard but you can get them to test if the powder is gh and if its at the required iu per vial, many labs will do this for you for a price, isnt cheap, but you really need to get the powder tested to see if its active or not and that's were it comes into thousands of $$$'s. The Chinese know this that's why many claim get it tested. If you want to make sure you have 100% gh buy from a licenced lab end of story and you dont have to worry or take any risk!! 

Ive used generic Chinese gh on and off for the last 8 to 10yrs and ive also have many personal friends/online friends who have used it aswell. Majority have reported bad side effects and in some cases life threatening complications. I have used pharm grade for many yrs previously and i know what it can do and Chinese generics don't even come close. Have you ever heard of anyone claiming that they have bought from pharm grade company and they suspect its fake, no its never been claimed but just look how many claim something is wrong with their generic brand. 

If you also do a search online you will see many concerns regarding Chinese gh. I've had a very good relationship with many Chinese sources some of them are the best you can find but in reality all they are concerned about is money and not the product. I was told by a good Chinese source friend that they are producing all kinds of chemicals what mimic gh side effects and they are also using IGF, anit-diuretic hormones, and other chemicals what simply dont work as good as real gh. 

All this as been discussed in this thread, please read the whole thread. I have wasted enough over the yrs!! I dont express my opinion for any kind of gain, I do it because its what ive seen and what ive experienced over the many yrs of using HGH. Infact its only recent ive found a pharm grade lab what's reasonable and i'm happy they are selling 100% hgh......I wouldn't take generics again even if they were free

----------


## jay5

Hey marcus please go to promuscle and tell this source where he can get his gh tested he said he will pay for it so if you have any info i'd love for you to tell him where to send it its a guy that has rips, he is doing it because someone said a 10iu bottle contained 1iu so he wants to prove people wrong so hopefully he has enough money lol or you can pm me and i'll tell him thanks man

----------


## cyounger100

> Hey marcus please go to promuscle and tell this source where he can get his gh tested he said he will pay for it so if you have any info i'd love for you to tell him where to send it its a guy that has rips, he is doing it because someone said a 10iu bottle contained 1iu so he wants to prove people wrong so hopefully he has enough money lol or you can pm me and i'll tell him thanks man


look for a good lab and give it too him and that 1 iu thing was not even from him btw i have talked too the guy claiming that

----------


## Sc0rch

I'm so happy with my Chinese generics that I just ordered 6 more kits  :Smilie:

----------


## jay5

My bad i must have read that wrong but marcus for all the criteria you said that needs to be done do you have a lab in mind I can let him know about or does anybody?? This is awesome that a source would do this he is the only one that has stepped up offering this everyone take care

----------


## ScotchGuard02

I'm glad to see that HGH's popular enough to garner this volume of interest.

----------


## marcus300

> My bad i must have read that wrong but marcus for all the criteria you said that needs to be done do you have a lab in mind I can let him know about or does anybody?? This is awesome that a source would do this he is the only one that has stepped up offering this everyone take care


Yes I have a lab what will test the hgh, pm me

----------


## flex25j

i been follow this thread for a few months now. i don't post much but i did want to say that i been on hgh for about 2 months now. i got some jins that matched up on there site i know in todays world that might not mean shit. but anyway i started out with 2 iu daily and currently using 5 iu 5 on 2 off and i been feeling great my blood pressure went down since being on it. also taking sus 250mg e.o.d that's all i am taking with it is test only. my blood pressure on just the test was an average 130/85- 135/90 not too high but while on the hgh its about 105/65 in the morning and 115/70 in the evening. i did pharm grade gh about 10 years ago and to tell you the truth i do not notice any difference. i sleep better feel better through out my day i think its great. my same source also has kigs which i know some people love some people hate. but i am going to give them a go in about a week when my jins are gone. i will monitor my blood pressure everyday to see if switching brands affect it and since i read about someone on here having extremely high bp on kigs and if that happens i will drop them and back to the jins. i just wanted to share my opinion. thanks

----------


## Sc0rch

> my blood pressure went down since being on it.


Mine too. It's gone down noticeably like yours.




> i did pharm grade gh about 10 years ago and to tell you the truth i do not notice any difference.


lmao

----------


## amar7

There will be always those two sides, some claim pharm is totally different others say chinese is just as good, as always many sellers involved claiming their HGH is the best. Fact is that in china are alot of fakes, but real gh aswell. And real gh is always the same, no matter where it's coming from. And the red-spot reaction does not prove the GH real or fake in any way... just another bs rumor people seem to be reading somewhere and spreading around without actually knowing what they talk about

----------


## nmber21

i am getting some kigtropin and have been 0n green tops from china and feel great after being messed up. I have read alot on this bored so to ask is the kigtropoin good? how did you like it? blah blah..... it just is so hard questions like these are like @$$holes everyone gits one.

----------


## Xtralarg

> i am getting some kigtropin and have been 0n green tops from china and feel great after being messed up. I have read alot on this bored so to ask is the kigtropoin good? how did you like it? blah blah..... it just is so hard questions like these are like @$$holes everyone gits one.


Don't waste your time, money and health

----------


## nmber21

i totally respect everyones views and are thankfull that there is a place here that i can come and really get a fabulous view of everyones stories ,views and so on..there are those also to play devils advocate tho that cant afford lets say us pharm grade "like yours truely" that has been on the shelf for the last decade and have read many articles and thinks to themselves and say"if i can just get a little bit like these guys who say they feel wonderfull after taking gh" those who have kids that want to play ,run , jump...and thinks to themselfs pretty much i am despreate. would you say take it and wish for the best and expect the worse? I know this is a big issue on here. Again I totally respect and appreciate all that i have read and everyones comments.

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## marcus300

> i totally respect everyones views and are thankfull that there is a place here that i can come and really get a fabulous view of everyones stories ,views and so on..there are those also to play devils advocate tho that cant afford lets say us pharm grade "like yours truely" that has been on the shelf for the last decade and have read many articles and thinks to themselves and say"if i can just get a little bit like these guys who say they feel wonderfull after taking gh" those who have kids that want to play ,run , jump...and thinks to themselfs pretty much i am despreate. would you say take it and wish for the best and expect the worse? I know this is a big issue on here. Again I totally respect and appreciate all that i have read and everyones comments.


Your going to have to try and write something a bit better to understand, ive no idea what your trying to say, sorry.

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## Xtralarg

> Your going to have to try and write something a bit better to understand, ive no idea what your trying to say, sorry.


I think he's trying to ask if non-pharm grade gh is worth the gamble if you want to achieve the results but can't affort pharm grade?

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## nmber21

correct sorry for the scattered thoughts

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## Muaythaiman

This thread is probably the most straight to the point on HGH. Having recently finished reading the ENTIRE thread, I wanted to make two points: 

1) If members interested in HGH could afford pharm grade, we certainly would buy it. What I have read indicates that the price of Pharm grade essentially doubled since around 2004 in the US and has increased ever since. The price of Pharm (even from discount online pharmacies) is approximately 800% greater than whatever it is that China offers per IU. I understand both sides of the argument and would have to call into question myself how it is possible for China to produce anything real at such a fraction of the cost of all other manufacturers in the world ( I have even seen quotes from HGH produced in Mexico- it is still atleast 8X more). But the point remains. The price difference is tremendous. And for people like myself, the Chinese products remain the only choice because of this. 

In light of all of the effort and time that has been spent on this thread, the purpose of this thread should be to seek to definitively prove whether or not real & safe hgh products do exist in the lower tier price range. If they do not I am wasting my time and I will never be able to take HGH because I cant afford it.

2) A lot of consideration has been given to IGF factor 1 tests. I myself had an IGF 1 test done to establish a baseline in anticipation of buying hgh from China and testing its legitimacy myself. I postponed my decision to order because of this thread. Xtralarg and Marcus have been extremely kind and helpful over the past few years in wading through the issues that surround chinese hgh. A full read of this thread has given me a lot of respect for several other posters as well. I believe this thread has unfortunately gotten away from its original purpose. No IGF tests by respected members of the community have been posted in quite some time. In response to a point made primarily by Marcus- that IGF may be added into the compound I must say that this is a legitimate concern. I would point out however that research will show that IGF-1 increasing compounds are not themselves cheap to manufacture by any means. Faking hgh by adding large amounts of compound that otherwise increased igf-1 could theoretically prove just as expensive than simply synthesizing the hgh in the first place. I would like very much to see any additional information posted on this. 

I also wanted to point out, having just gotten my baseline test done, that a blood "growth panel" measures many more factors than simple IGF-1. My test said that it literally measured the level of HGH in my bloodstream. The test was done by quest diagnostics and factored in several different levels of hormones (and other stuff i know nothing about). My test was ordered by a very normal Dr's office as a result of me asking for an HGH prescription. 

The point is this: Tests that examine *a broader array* of factors that contribute to tissue growth could absolutely help prove or disprove the legitimacy of HGH. I would very much like to see those trusted members who defend the legitimacy and safety of Chinese HGH, request a "growth panel" test- or anything else that would display and measure additional factors that effect growth- this would go a long way in establishing the legitimacy and viability of affordable hgh.

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## nmber21

very well said

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## marcus300

IGF-1 LR3 is very cheap in China, its not expensive.

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## Xtralarg

> IGF-1 LR3 is very cheap in China, its not expensive.


That's if you're lucky enough to get IGF-1! Most of the stuff they put in is dangerous, as you know I have first hand experience of it!

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## Markosterone

A sponsor over at PM.com is offering to stand for the costs of testing his HGH at a lab.

So if any of you guy know about a lab that offers testing of drugs/hormones, its a good oppertuneti to get a real answer about Chinese HGH.
Just thought I spread the word..

I just hope I don't brake any rules.

//M

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## jgbody

What's the easiest way to test your GH legitimately? I wish there was some way of telling the difference? I use the blues at 6iu/day but was always curious as to how it would stack up to others.

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## Muaythaiman

It might take a bit of trouble- but I can find a way to scan, make anonymous, and post the "growth pannel" lab test that i had done- it literally displayed a hgh level in the blood so I see it as being a very definitive test. As I said I did the test as a baseline and may have some trouble convincing the Dr to run another one once/if i get some chinese hgh. Is there interest in exploring additional blood tests of this nature that could prove more thorough? Perhaps an advocate of chinese hgh could ask their doctor for a similar test- the one I had done posts both my score and shows that score plotted between a high and low number that represent a "normal" range. If someone with access to the chinese stuff could take a full- dr ordered growth panel test, it could prove very definitive.

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## Muaythaiman

> What's the easiest way to test your GH legitimately?


 I would suggest going to your dr's office as I did. My dad has a prescription for HGH and he loves it. So i just asked my Dr if he would consider prescribing me. He said almost definitely not as i am too young, but I asked if we could just look at my levels as i do a lot of physical exercise- so he ordered a growth panel test - i describe it above.

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## JimInAK

An actual HGH blood test, particularly a single one or two tests, generally do not give an accurate indication of an individual's HGH production because the natural release of HGH comes in pulses. HGH blood levels naturally rise and fall dramatically during a 24 hour period.

As far as determining whether an injection of HGH is effective, it would be logical that a blood test about an hour after injection should show an elevated level of HGH in a blood sample. 

However, it's my understanding that because naturally produced HGH produced by the pituitary causes the liver to produce IGF-1 in response to its HGH release, the IGF-1 test is medically accepted as an accurate inferential indication of an individual's average HGH production.

The general argument by some on this forum suggest that HGH from China has "additives" that will raise IGF-1 in the blood, making Chinese HGH appear to be genuine but is not, thereby making the IGF-1 test as a benchmark for HGH use invalid. With all due respect, I do not agree with that theory.

I am concerned about the purity of the Chinese HGH. However, I have been consuming HGH for almost two years and the only negative side effect from my current use of Chinese HGH is the negative response from those on this forum who claim that there is no such thing as genuine Chinese HGH ?!?

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## marcus300

hgh test are not accurate because the of the reason jimInAK posted, many times when people have these test different reading are very common, I would also stay clear of IGF test because generic labs are also adding IGF into their hgh and passing off as real gh. One of the best ways to get your hgh tested is to seek a lab what will analyse your gh powder this will give you an accurate reading of your gh if its really 100% hgh.

Ive been using pharm and generic hgh for over 15yrs and there is no comparison IMHO I'd seek pharm grade. I would never use generic hgh again even if it was free.

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## Sc0rch

Love my Chinese generic. Just received my 6 new kits.

Getting great results. Been using them for almost two years now. I have dropped two waist sizes with no change in diet. My blood pressure has gone down, my skin has improved, I have tons of energy and feel wonderful, libido has improved, mental acuity has definitely improved.

Great value!!

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## Rambo21

I used Omnitrope for one year.The cartidges contained a lot of bubbles, when I told the pharmacy about that ..they just didnt know why,when I asked if I can talk to the pharmist , they told me "no he isnt here".So I thought I pay them over ( we cant talk about prices?) each time and they cant even help me with that ? It looked to me it was 50% water and rest Growth hormone and I also didnt got any improvement except I got less fat. When I called the Dr who prescribed me the HGH and asked him about it ( also about how many times he keep forgetting things ) he told me wel "if you dont like , then look for another DR ".Seriously WTF he pay him all the money on earth and thats why he said to me ?!!

So let get the facts right here ; first of all, you don't get prescribed HGH other then anti aging clinics and for me NEVER AM I GOING TO A ANTI AGING CLINIC ANYMORE AND PAY MY ASS OF WITHOUT RESULTS/HELP/NOTHING.They can be also fake ass hell.You're not going to get it from a hospital. 

I have been using chinese HGH DIRECTLY from the manufacter and got much better results while paying much less.

SYLVESTER STALLONE A MILLIONARE, he can buy all the hgh in the U.S by a anti aging clinic BUT NO , he gets it from china too> Jintropin.

Later.

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## Sc0rch

Sounds like your pharm grade Omnitrope was either faked or way underdosed.

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## Rambo21

exactly! Something you dont except from a pharmacy but now I know that "pharmacy"doesnt mean a thing.I wish I could bring it back and save the thousands I paid while Im broke as hell but at that time I thought "health over everything".

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## SlimmerMe

^^^ ps: I wasn't too keen on my Omnitrope either and I called the pharmacist and told them and the doc I thought it was watered down or something not right. Basically I felt bloated but I did have the great dreams!

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## Muaythaiman

> hgh test are not accurate because the of the reason jimInAK posted, many times when people have these test different reading are very common,


 :AaOther22:  I have just received my first box of rips, used 3iu, and taken an hgh lab test that cost me around 100 bucks. The results put me at a lvl of 5.2 on a cale of 0.5-6.0 -so i am quite pleased with the results. 

I took the test 1 hour and 50 minutes after the injection and i also have a baseline test that i took 6 months ago that placed my body's natural hgh levels just at average (327 on a 50-550 scale). I am not super thrilled that the test I took two days ago uses a different scale than the test that I took previously but I do feel that this test lends some additional serious credibility to blue top rips.

While I appreciate the comments about the potential inaccuracies in HGH level tests, given the body's natural fluctuations, I would have to stand by the purity in the Chinese stuff that i tested. At 3iu being very near the top of the scale seems very encouraging. I would also like to point out that I took the test two days ago right at 1:30 pm, since i keep a normal sleep schedule, 1pm should not be a time of day for a naturally high hgh level. IMO the levels that were measured on me were simply too high to be explained by fluctuations anyway.

I would very much appreciate feedback on this as I am considering buying more of this same stuff.

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## JimInAK

The test which you score 327 on, was most likely an IGF-1 test. This is the test I use to determine if what i have is genuine. There are those who argue that such a test is invalid, and that Chinese put IGF in their otherwise fake or spoiled and sub-standard product. I do not agree with that opinion and have been using Chinese HGH for nearly two years. I am very happy with the quality and results I've obtained. The fact that it costs about 1/8 of the same American pharm product and is available makes the sell for me.

The rule of thumb that I have found to be roughly accurate is that for every 1iu/day consumed, your IGF-1 blood level increases about 100ng/ml after about a month of use. It may increase more rapidly that that. However, I wait a month to insure that my IGF-1 level has stabilized.

So, from my way of thinking, if you tested 327 and have been consuming 3iu/day, then i'd expect to see your level around 600-650 ng/ml, if you consume 3iu/day.

Use of the IGF-1 test is standard procedure by the medical community to determine natural HGH production and effectiveness of your dose.

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## marcus300

> I have just received my first box of rips, used 3iu, and taken an hgh lab test that cost me around 100 bucks. The results put me at a lvl of 5.2 on a cale of 0.5-6.0 -so i am quite pleased with the results. 
> 
> I took the test 1 hour and 50 minutes after the injection and i also have a baseline test that i took 6 months ago that placed my body's natural hgh levels just at average (327 on a 50-550 scale). I am not super thrilled that the test I took two days ago uses a different scale than the test that I took previously but I do feel that this test lends some additional serious credibility to blue top rips.
> 
> While I appreciate the comments about the potential inaccuracies in HGH level tests, given the body's natural fluctuations, I would have to stand by the purity in the Chinese stuff that i tested. At 3iu being very near the top of the scale seems very encouraging. I would also like to point out that I took the test two days ago right at 1:30 pm, since i keep a normal sleep schedule, 1pm should not be a time of day for a naturally high hgh level. IMO the levels that were measured on me were simply too high to be explained by fluctuations anyway.
> 
> I would very much appreciate feedback on this as I am considering buying more of this same stuff.


Dont be another fooled with generics, they put IGF into their gh vials and the only way to be 100% sure is to get the powder tested, but you have to remember your buying from 2nd rate labs who only have on concern and thats making money and not about quality...

You really need to try pharm grade gh and then you wont be fooled again.

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## Sc0rch

I wouldn't put that pharm grade omnitrope garbage in my body if you paid me to do it.

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## baseline_9

I have done little reading into GH vs IGF-1....

I may be completely wrong here, but...

If the main advantages of taking HGH come in the form of increased iGF-1 levels then why not just take IGF-1 if it is a cheaper product?


Can someone expand on this subject in detail for me please

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## SlimmerMe

> I wouldn't put that pharm grade omnitrope garbage in my body if you paid me to do it.


Curious why you say this other than your post above....please explain. I might agree with you~

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## Sc0rch

I want to see one test that shows IGF being sold as Chinese generic HGH.

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## JimInAK

> I want to see one test that shows IGF being sold as Chinese generic HGH.


We don't quote prices, but I have NEVER see a single vial of IGF-1 sold for less than generic Chinese HGH. Other arguments claim that "real" HGH must be biologically active. However, my research has shown that the ONLY biologically active HGH comes from "the hypophysis of dead corpses".

In my opinion, arguments presented here against Chinese HGH don't hold water. I believe they are based on an individual's bad experiences, which are valid except when they cross the line substituting assumptions for facts.

The scientific, real world facts prove that Chinese HGH is genuine HGH. Pharm HGH may be cleaner, it may be better or it may not be as good. However, the legality of the issue creates obstacles to obtaining objective facts, while the law enforces the AMAs monopoly and all to often supports their assertions with lies.

I have no doubt that those here who claim that Chinese HGH is trash, truly believe that it is. My experience indicates that just like oil, HGH is a commodity, it is produced in China and the Chinese product is dramatically cheaper. It's because it's not supported by an exclusive monopoly. They compete for business and have a much lower overhead.

I voice strong support for Chinese HGH because it is the only product that common people can afford without lowering their standard of living. I have friends that because of principle, they refuse to shop at WalMart. They also make over $100K/year. I shop at WalMart because it affords me a higher standard of living. I am not opposed to buying Chinese products or products from any nation that does not oppress its workers. Workers are free in China. Dollars sent to China must be spent to have value, for products or services from Americans. That's free trade.

There are issues I'd change, and the first one would be to modify or break the monopoly created by the pharm industry. The laws against Americans trying to be the best that they can be, that limit choices and uphold monopolies are wrong and are the root of this issue.

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## marcus300

^^ you really need to try pharm grade lol. You got 2 yrs of experience with generics and thats it. There are mods/vets who have been using generics for 10yrs+ who state generics are crap and not worth the money, ask Ronnie Rowland,BG or extrlarg if you need more qualified people in this area.. You really need to research more because your getting very mistaken with yours....but like I keep saying you carry on using your generics if you happy with them I don't really care but I wont be using them again like alot of people wont be either..

Best of luck

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## Sc0rch

lmao

Let's see, just on this page alone, not counting similar posts on the previous pages we have:




> i did pharm grade gh about 10 years ago and to tell you the truth i do not notice any difference.


and 




> I have been using chinese HGH DIRECTLY from the manufacter and got much better results while paying much less.


The one thing the three people you sight that say pharm is better, all have one thing in common, they are all staff members of this forum (except xtra and he might as well be). All of the people that say generic is as good or better are just regular people sharing their experiences. What makes your staff members more qualified than the people I quoted above? Do they have test data? Are they Doctors?

Secondly, your assertions that there is no such thing as genuine generic HGH and that they all have IGF in the vials are unfounded. Again, show me one test that backs up your claim.

Why did you claim that generic is no good because it isn't biologically active when in fact that doesn't even apply to synthetic HGH? That doesn't lend much credence to your "qualifications".

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## Sc0rch

> I have no doubt that those here who claim that Chinese HGH is trash, truly believe that it is.


This is the only point in your post that I'm questioning more and more. The rest of you post is spot on.

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## BG

Of course he will send you some form of real GH but after that what they send out to everyone else wont be the same....they have been doing it for years. Its like when IP sent out the Iranian teste to be tested.....333mgs per amp !!!!!! Holy shit lets buy them, everyone did. Nothing great came so a few people got them tested....177mg per amp. Those Chinese are smart crafty mother fuc'rs. Look IP still sells BD and QV products that havent been produced in over 5 years. Shit he was faking BD when the company was still running, they contacted him and he threatened to kill them.....ya I trust that guy.





> A sponsor over at PM.com is offering to stand for the costs of testing his HGH at a lab.
> 
> So if any of you guy know about a lab that offers testing of drugs/hormones, its a good oppertuneti to get a real answer about Chinese HGH.
> Just thought I spread the word..
> 
> I just hope I don't brake any rules.
> 
> //M

----------


## BG

> We don't quote prices, but I have NEVER see a single vial of IGF-1 sold for less than generic Chinese HGH. Other arguments claim that "real" HGH must be biologically active. However, my research has shown that the ONLY biologically active HGH comes from "the hypophysis of dead corpses".
> 
> In my opinion, arguments presented here against Chinese HGH don't hold water. I believe they are based on an individual's bad experiences, which are valid except when they cross the line substituting assumptions for facts.
> 
> The scientific, real world facts prove that Chinese HGH is genuine HGH. Pharm HGH may be cleaner, it may be better or it may not be as good. However, the legality of the issue creates obstacles to obtaining objective facts, while the law enforces the AMAs monopoly and all to often supports their assertions with lies.
> 
> I have no doubt that those here who claim that Chinese HGH is trash, truly believe that it is. My experience indicates that just like oil, HGH is a commodity, it is produced in China and the Chinese product is dramatically cheaper. It's because it's not supported by an exclusive monopoly. They compete for business and have a much lower overhead.
> 
> I voice strong support for Chinese HGH because it is the only product that common people can afford without lowering their standard of living. I have friends that because of principle, they refuse to shop at WalMart. They also make over $100K/year. I shop at WalMart because it affords me a higher standard of living. I am not opposed to buying Chinese products or products from any nation that does not oppress its workers. Workers are free in China. Dollars sent to China must be spent to have value, for products or services from Americans. That's free trade.
> ...


Do you really, honestly think that the Chinese are taking the time, the proper steps, buying the real materials and have the equipment to make legit GH.........when they can substatute it very cheaply with other chemicals that mimic the side effects caused by GH? Think about their track record with medicine, cars and shit baby toys (lead paint come on !!!!). They dont give a fuc about their own people let alone us, they just want to make money.

Now Ive been using GH since end of 04' when we were able to order directly from Genci. I ran from 4iu's to 7-8iu's for a year. Let me tell you the results were remarkable. We all know since ORD that the legit labs that produce GH will send to the US, there for there is no standard anymore to compare generics to. This was huge also when SRCS was no longer testing oils , man I had every batch I got tested before that, it keep UGL's honest when it came to dosages. Now without being able to test our gear that powder quality has dropped so much, guys getting bad raws time and time again, this didnt happen before ORD.

Back to GH. Since ORD I have used browns, blues, reds, hyges and rips. I had some results from the hyges but with all the others nothing!! Some sides but no BF drop, when I was using Jintropins I could eat anything, I was eating so much it was insane and I was at a steady 7% BF. I just ran 8iu's of the hyges for 3 months, I was getting some results, but nothing major. Then I switched to the rips, I ran 8iu's for a total of 500iu's. I got a rash on my chest and arms. My fingers got real tight and I seemed to start holding water, I tried to give it time but I was afraid what I was injecting into me could be doing a lot of harm so I stopped. When I stopped the water dropped off, 2 weeks later I looked way leaner. I was shocked, wtf was I taking. then I just came to realize the Chinese don't give a fuc, they never did. Shit they used to catch cats and use them in the food they sold, these are the ones that live among us, imagine whats the ones across the world think of us. Like I said all they care about is money. We have no way of telling what is in those unlabeled little vials. I can get GH from all the top sources....they are just salesman trying to make as much money as they can.

I hope one day you get to run real GH and are man enough to come back here and admit we were right. Trust me.....you dont know what good GH is.

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## JimInAK

BG - I have been man enough to admit that I have never used pharm GH. If I have the opportunity to try it, I will definitely let you guys know what my results are. Much of the value of this forum is sharing our experiences. I've already told marcus on this forum that if I do well commercial fishing this summer, I'd make an effort to try some. I will take blood tests and any other test to determine the difference. I have had a good experience with Chinese GH, as have several close friends. The problem is that pharm GH is difficult to obtain and grossly expensive. When/if I hook up with a fat construction contact or have a good season fishing, then it'll happen. I appreciate your effort to educate me and to share your experience on this forum.

scOrch - I appreciate that others agree with me and have had similar positive experiences with Chinese GH. However, i don't agree that staff member are less qualified than most doctors, when it comes to AAS or rHGH. The people who give their time and effort here have real life experience and have no agenda to promote either pharm or Chinese products, as this is not a source board/forum. Many Doctors do have an agenda to maintain control of all medicines, while maintaining their control and the monopoly, which equates to huge profits in their pockets.

I also don't agree that Americans have moral high ground over the Chinese, when it comes to lying, cheating or stealing. We (Americans) have unmatched skills in that department and in many cases have legalized theft under the guise of protecting the public. Where American theft is not legalized, it is protected through the fine art of selective prosecution. If there are creative ways to steal, I'd bet that an American has done it first before any foreigner. We are a nation of great innovators and inventors, for both for good and bad purposes.

Don't get me wrong, I love my country and the people who live here. It's the politicians that cause the problems and the greed and indifference of too many people who profit from bad laws, that create opportunity for those who lack the moral character to care or the intelligence to know the difference.

We can't fix those who lack moral character but we can become more educated. That is what this forum is all about.

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## jholl

i am on the fence over this issue, but thought i would share this information thinking it could help to further solve the problem. in emailing a certain chinese hgh source, questioning the legitimacy of the product they are selling, i received this response: 
"About authenticity and quality of the product - we encourage you to find
an independent lab of your choice, which is capable of testing for real 191
amino acid sequence somatropin (HGH) and have a sample of our product
tested. We will pay for the testing (refund your money which you paid for
the testing or send more of our product as compensation). We would also like
to get the lab result paper so we can publish it as reference for other
people who ask for such proof of quality."

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## JimInAK

Many consider gas chromatography–mass spectrometry (aka: GC/MS) to be the "gold standard" in scientific analysis. Applications of GC-MS include drug detection, fire investigation, environmental analysis, explosives investigation, and identification of unknown samples.

I know they use this device at refineries to detect different substances within the test samples and drug testing companies claim to use them at their labs, to confirm their less accurate tests. (Although there are issues and complaints when it's been proven that they have not confirmed with GC/MS, such as with the controversy at Federal Express, firing employees after testing them with an inaccurate test and claiming, but failing to confirm with GC/MS)

This seems to be a more practical way to obtain an independent analysis and the cost of such shouldn't break the bank. A good machine is quite expensive, but once you have one, the test is relatively straightforward. The trick is to provide a clean, uncontaminated sample. If a sample was already contaminated, the test should very accurately reveal that, too.

Anyone know about this possibility for testing "questionable" substances?

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## Sc0rch

> scOrch - I appreciate that others agree with me and have had similar positive experiences with Chinese GH. However, i don't agree that staff member are less qualified than most doctors, when it comes to AAS or rHGH. The people who give their time and effort here have real life experience and have no agenda to promote either pharm or Chinese products, as this is not a source board/forum. Many Doctors do have an agenda to maintain control of all medicines, while maintaining their control and the monopoly, which equates to huge profits in their pockets.


1) You can't add 2 + 2.

2) Did you stop using your generic HGH? These staff members are telling you you're injecting a bunch of rouge chemicals and some IGF. If they're qualified then you should listen to them, stop, and start using their HGH. Otherwise, your comments are hypocritical.

----------


## justify

> Can the Chinese be trusted? well they are the biggest counterfeiters in the world, they even poison their own to make money and they even produce and sell chemically produce eggs so can they be trusted!! it makes me laugh when i hear Blue tops are great, green tops are good to go and my Orange tops are very powefull, come on they are just coloured tops and anything could be inside those bottles.
> 
> The problem we have is that hgh results are very slow and many could well be fooled by the results of their cycles (AAS) they are using while running their GH, if the Chinese could mimic CTS and fill you with bloat and the numbness feeling then no one here would truly know they had fake. The only true way to finding out if your supplier is selling you 100% gh is to get it lab tested and who ever does that?
> 
> I remember years ago I was buying GH pens from a pharm in Spain and they were so expensive it was nearly impossible to run gh but the results were amazing, now was this just the right time for me to transform or was the gh a lot superior than the Chinese stuff floating around today. One thing is for sure there are various qualities of gh coming out of China and I feel its a hit or miss scenario. 
> 
> Does anyone have a lab were GH can be tested because I am up for sending some to get it tested?



Hey Marcus, I have read all the posts in this thread. Is the same goes for AAS steroids ? Are the Steroids coming from China Also Fake?
Your response would be appreciated.

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## JimInAK

> 1) You can't add 2 + 2.
> 
> 2) Did you stop using your generic HGH? These staff members are telling you you're injecting a bunch of rouge chemicals and some IGF. If they're qualified then you should listen to them, stop, and start using their HGH. Otherwise, your comments are hypocritical.


I have not stopped using Chinese HGH and have heard no opinion that would cause me to do so. I do listen to and consider all opinions, while I assess those statements and claims. I accept them or reject all statements and form my own opinion based on my experience, along with facts that I know to be true. 

I truly believe that the staff members are expressing their heartfelt beliefs. This forum grants people on both sides of any issue a free and unfettered opportunity to express those beliefs.

Respecting each members opinion makes this forum civil. Each of us may express their own opinion and anyone reading these forums can decide what they want to believe. While we share similar experiences regarding Chinese HGH, I don't agree that any person's opinion should be disregarded because we don't agree with it. Listening to both sides and respecting people with differing opinions should never be regarded as hypocritical.

I'm here to learn and to offer my opinion in support of the truth as I know it. Others have different opinions. Civility and open, honest debate is the best way for me to gain knowledge. I am confident enough in my position to defend it and responsible enough to listen to others who differ. If I had all the answers there would be no need for me to participate in this debate.

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone or hijacked this thread.

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## NotSmall

WOW! This thread is still growing and yet it does not appear to have advanced AT ALL in the last few months since I was last here!

The chinese GH enthusiasts are still spending money on their chinese GH on the basis of anecdotal evidence, GH-like side effects and flawed testing methods.

The chinese-GH-is-fake contingent are still stating unproven facts with no hard evidence to support them.

And still no one has lab tested any chinese GH.

See you in another few months boys and girls...

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## Fit N Fun

NotSmall,

Clearly you are struggling with memory loss or have a difficulty with reading.

There is nothing anecdotal about the information below that I posted on this thread months ago

Guy's,

Seems to me that you are going about this the wrong way, looking for anecdotal evidence of whether you have HGH

There are many people on here spending lots of money on HGH without a clue whether they have anything worthwhile injecting.

I sent a vial of HGH to a lab to have it tested for purity and whether it was 191 Amino Acids, this tells you most of what you need to know. I still need to find a way to test for the biological activity of the HGH

Here is part of the information provided from the test results.

· The protein concentration was very close to the concentration given by the manufacturer (experimental: 1.7 mg/ml, on the label: 1.6 mg/ml).

· SDS-PAGE analysis indicates that the proteins is very pure 



· 


· MALDI-TOF analysis confirms the purity assessment by SDS-PAGE. All three peaks show a shoulder with a mass difference of 206 Da  this is not due to an impurity, it is the result of the formation of an adduct with sinapinic acid, the matrix that was used for the MALDI-MS experiment.





· 


· The observed molecular weight of 22125 ± 8 Da corresponds well with the expected molecular weight of 22130 for the 22 kDa form of human growth hormone (see http://www.expasy.org/cgi-bin/[email protected]). This is the processed somatotropin with 191 amino acids.


To complete the picture, I need to find someone to test the biological activity of HGH, please if anyone knows if this test has a special name, can they let me know.

The cost for the above analysis was less than $250 and is IMHO a good investment to know that I am not injecting rubbish.

Before doing the above test, I contacted some of the board moderators to discuss what was being done.

I also feel it may also be possible for the mods to sort out a way where a number of us contribute to the cost of HGH sample analysis and pay a small fee to verify that their chosen supplier is selling quality gear.

----------


## marcus300

> WOW! This thread is still growing and yet it does not appear to have advanced AT ALL in the last few months since I was last here!
> 
> The chinese GH enthusiasts are still spending money on their chinese GH on the basis of anecdotal evidence, GH-like side effects and flawed testing methods.
> 
> The chinese-GH-is-fake contingent are still stating unproven facts with no hard evidence to support them.
> 
> And still no one has lab tested any chinese GH.
> 
> See you in another few months boys and girls...


Don't be misdirected by 2 members who have never used pharm grade and have only been using generics for 2 yrs. How can any of these give any kind of feedback except on the products they have been using. As well you know you and many other bodybuilders were fooled by generics for many years so reading into their excuses or beliefs doesn't put any new light on anything, infact they are back in time to be honest because I and many others were shouting and claiming the same thing 10 years ago.

Things have advanced, there are more members/Mods/Vets who have tried pharm grade who can without doubt state that generics have been a waste of time and don't even compare to pharm grade. This is from experience from using generics for yrs and pharm grade. We can get generic/pharm grade hgh tested but we still come up against testing for the hormone to be active, the price for such test comes into the thousands and not hundreds and many of the generics companies know this.

I personally feel you have to go off experience from users who have used many generics and pharm grades and listen to them. I also know that its an impossibility to try and convince the new generic users that they have been wasting their money or buying fake because they simply are blinded by so called results/sides and more so price. I would only use hgh from a licenced lab and I would never use generics again if they were free.

----------


## marcus300

> NotSmall,
> 
> Clearly you are struggling with memory loss or have a difficulty with reading.
> 
> There is nothing anecdotal about the information below that I posted on this thread months ago
> 
> Guy's,
> 
> Seems to me that you are going about this the wrong way, looking for anecdotal evidence of whether you have HGH
> ...



Very true Fit N Fun, the hgh what was tested is from a lab who have a licence to produce and supply HGH, the test isnt one for testing for the hormone to be active but this lab does supply hospitals and around the world pharmacy's so I doubt they are selling fake. At least you can be assured you have 100% hgh

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> NotSmall,
> 
> Clearly you are struggling with memory loss or have a difficulty with reading.
> 
> There is nothing anecdotal about the information below that I posted on this thread months ago
> 
> Guy's,
> 
> Seems to me that you are going about this the wrong way, looking for anecdotal evidence of whether you have HGH
> ...




^^^^ Is that Ansomone?

----------


## marcus300

> ^^^^ Is that Ansomone?


yes.........

----------


## NotSmall

> NotSmall,
> 
> Clearly you are struggling with memory loss or have a difficulty with reading 
> 
> There is nothing anecdotal about the information below that I posted on this thread months ago


Clearly you are struggling with reading and comprehension (you patronising twat) - I also cited "flawed testing methods" and as you acknowledge yourself the test does not confirm that the GH is biologically active.

----------


## JimInAK

> Clearly you are struggling with reading and comprehension (you patronising twat) - I also cited "flawed testing methods" and as you acknowledge yourself the test does not confirm that the GH is biologically active.


Here's the typical information I find when I look for facts regarding 'biologically active" HGH: "When athletes and bodybuilders first began to use HGH injections to become more fit and able they used biologically active HGH. This was removed from cadavers and while it did work it also became known to cause Creutzfeldt Jacob Disease." 

I have found NO evidence that suggests that rHGH contains, or is supposed to contain any biologically active component.

Times change and companies no longer produce "cadaver" HGH. I have only found "biologically active" variants of human growth hormone , not in synthetic rHGH. I cannot find any rHGH that claims to be biologically active, nor can I find any scientific report that states that any rHGH is biologically active.

Does "real" HGH contain ground up liver? Claiming US produced pharm is real and anything Chinese is dangerous, poisonous, fake, etc. is as unsubstantial as the "biologically active" claim.

Substantiate your claim and I may buy it. Where's the beef !!! It's not in my vial of Chinese HGH !!! LOL !!!

----------


## JimInAK

BTW - Any preparation, such as a drug, a vaccine, or an antitoxin, that is synthesized from living organisms or their products and used medically as a diagnostic, preventive, or therapeutic agent is biologically active, by definition.

So... perhaps ALL rHGH is biologically active ?!? What I need to know to believe any claim related to the term is specifically what does this dark and magic test, if one actually exists, really test for and how does it that relate to the difference between good rHGH and bad rHGH.

----------


## NotSmall

JinInAK - When this whole thing first kicked off I spoke to several labs about testing and it was them who made me aware of this - it was a while ago but from memory - there was a test for molecular weight which was a fairly good indicator that you had something "fitting the description of GH", then there was another more expensive test that could determine that you had the correct amino acid sequences BUT that may not be assembled correctly in which case they would not be biologically active - i.e. you would just be injecting yourself with all the right amino acids but it would not actually do anything.

** Disclaimer - The above is the gist of the situation BUT IS FROM MEMORY and is not intended to prove any point, just to help explain things (as I understand them) to JinInAK **

----------


## marcus300

> Here's the typical information I find when I look for facts regarding 'biologically active" HGH: "When athletes and bodybuilders first began to use HGH injections to become more fit and able they used biologically active HGH. This was removed from cadavers and while it did work it also became known to cause Creutzfeldt Jacob Disease." 
> 
> I have found NO evidence that suggests that rHGH contains, or is supposed to contain any biologically active component.
> 
> Times change and companies no longer produce "cadaver" HGH. I have only found "biologically active" variants of human growth hormone , not in synthetic rHGH. I cannot find any rHGH that claims to be biologically active, nor can I find any scientific report that states that any rHGH is biologically active.
> 
> Does "real" HGH contain ground up liver? Claiming US produced pharm is real and anything Chinese is dangerous, poisonous, fake, etc. is as unsubstantial as the "biologically active" claim.
> 
> Substantiate your claim and I may buy it. Where's the beef !!! It's not in my vial of Chinese HGH !!! LOL !!!


Notsmall is correct and your way off with your understanding on what we mean by active hormone. You also not listening that its the generic companies that doesnt mean all Chinese labs, a licence to sell or pharm grade are 100% hgh. To make rHGH they are many processes to complete and the equipment used cost's millions of dollars and many of the generic companies don't have this equipment, this is why to produce rHGH it costs a lot of money due to the expensive equipment need to complete the process. I do know someone who I am in contact with and in one of his first emails to me he describes the process of testing this horomone. I will copy the email so you get more of an understanding. My contact has many titles, he is a Professor of research, Scientific manager, he is head of the Biopharmaceutical Bioprocessing technology centre, Director of Mass spectrometry in clinical pharmacology who provide protein analysis services to commercial and academic clients and also a Doctor 


Hi Marcus, 

there are some things that we can do, some things that we could do, but that would possibly be too expensive (not worth it) and other things that we cannot do. 

Please let me start with the last section:

We absolutely cannot test any substances for their suitability for any purpose, particularly not for their use in a diagnostic, therapeutic and/or recreational purpose, when this invloves administering to a living being (including humans). 

Measuring the concentration of the growth hormones is something that is actually not as easy as it might seem. The concentration of the hormone can have two different meanings, it could be the chemical concentration of a compound (this is something that we can measure), it could also be the biological activity of this compound (this would be different, if a certain proportion of this chemical would be biologically inactive, which could happen for a variety of reasons). The latter (measuring the biological activity) is something we cannot do. We can measure the chemical concentration of human growth hormone (or any other growth hormone), but that would involve the chemical synthesis of an internal standard, followed by a fairly complicated experiment, in which we use chemical scissors (en enzyme called trypsin) to chop the protein into pieces, then we analyse these pieces using a combination of high performance liquid chromatography and mass spectrometry, followed by a computer-intensive analysis of the data. The result of this experiment would be the concentration either in units of mol/l or in units of mg/l (the two are interconvertible). I do not know how the IU (stands for International Units) for growth hormone are defined - this might be a functional (biological) unit (which we cannot measure). 

Human growth hormone is a chain of 191 different amino acids. One thing we can do is measure the total molecular weight of the protein in a sample to see, if it corresponds to the molecular weight that would be predicted for a protein containing these 191 amino acids. This experiment detects, if one amino acid was missing or another one was added, in some cases (but not in all cases) even, if an amino acid was replaced with a different one. Another outcome of this experiment would be to see, if other, similar proteins are present in the same sample. 

In a different experiment we can check, if a protein in a particular sample is really growth hormone or if it is possibly something completely different, for example egg white protein or milk protein. 

For your information, I attach two links to articles about human growth hormone:


Best Wishes
**********

----------


## Fit N Fun

> Clearly you are struggling with reading and comprehension (you patronising twat) - I also cited "flawed testing methods" and as you acknowledge yourself the test does not confirm that the GH is biologically active.


 
You may think I am patronising, but you also claimed in your post 

"The chinese-GH-is-fake contingent are still stating unproven facts with no hard evidence to support them.

And still no one has lab tested any chinese GH.", all of which is untrue as I have just demonstrated.

I also agree with you and Marcus and many others that the test performed does not demonstrate whether the HGH is active, least I got off my ar$e and found a lab that can test whether my HGH is the correct molecular weight and whether it is pure then paid for the test to be done and shared with all on here.

I did find a company that could also perform tests for the HGH being active, they inject rats with the HGH and compare against control rats on the same food and conditions, they have run this test many times and may possibly have allowed the results to be quantified against others. The test was very expensive and out of my budget range.

In another reply, I posted a quote from one of the HGH manufacturers that advises the IGF-1 level in your body will peak at around 20 hours after an HGH injection, so seems to me that a blood test for IGF-1 before starting HGH and then 20 hours after the first HGH injection would provide as much information as the testing on the rats.

----------


## NotSmall

> You may think I am patronising, but you also claimed in your post 
> 
> "The chinese-GH-is-fake contingent are still stating unproven facts with no hard evidence to support them.
> 
> And still no one has lab tested any chinese GH.", all of which is untrue as I have just demonstrated.


OK then I should have put _"and still no one has conclusively lab tested any chinese GH"_ *YAWN*

And as for you saying _"all of which is untrue as I have just demonstrated"_ erm  :Hmmmm:  where did you demonstrate that _"The chinese-GH-is-fake contingent are still stating unproven facts with no hard evidence to support them"_ is untrue? - I must have missed that! - I have seen it stated many times that chinese companies fill their GH vials with IGF-1 and with AIs as if this has been conclusively proven, which to my knowledge it has not, it is merely a theory and yet it is stated as if it were a fact.

----------


## marcus300

> OK then I should have put _"and still no one has conclusively lab tested any chinese GH"_ *YAWN*
> 
> And as for you saying _"all of which is untrue as I have just demonstrated"_ erm  where did you demonstrate that _"The chinese-GH-is-fake contingent are still stating unproven facts with no hard evidence to support them"_ is untrue? - I must have missed that! - I have seen it stated many times that chinese companies fill their GH vials with IGF-1 and with AIs as if this has been conclusively proven, which to my knowledge it has not, it is merely a theory and yet it is stated as if it were a fact.


Depends if you want to believe many experienced members/staff who have used pharm grade and generics over the years, these people can give solid evidence of their own experience using both types of HGH. Yes there are two members who try and shout very loudly regarding generics but to be very honest they dont bring any foundation with their claims, they have only used generics and only for 2 yrs. How can any of these give any kind of feedback except on the products they have been using. As well you know you and many other bodybuilders were fooled by generics for many years so reading into their excuses or beliefs doesn't put any new light on anything, infact they are back in time to be honest because I and many others were shouting and claiming the same thing 10 years ago.

The price to test for active hgh is very expensive and you also know its out of the price range for everyone here. The Chinese also know this which my Chinese source told me about when I was discussing generic quality, the are way ahead of the game than the us.

I personally feel you have to go off experience from users who have used many generics and pharm grades and listen to them. I also know that its an impossibility to try and convince the new generic users that they have been wasting their money or buying fake because they simply are blinded by so called results/sides and more so price. I would only use hgh from a licenced lab and I would never use generics again. If your happy using what every your using keep with it because its an impossibility to convince the new generic users they have been wasting their money, if you want to get some personal experience pm BG/Extrlarg/Ronnie Rowland etc they will also tell you all about your source who you buy off, many things have changed Notsmall so I advice you to give them a PM and find out about the source you was using months ago, but if you looking for the active lab test it isnt going to happen aswell you and the Chinese know it isnt. 

Ive given up trying to convince people, I am just passing on many friends/staff/members and my own experience.

----------


## NotSmall

> Depends if you want to believe many experienced members/staff who have used pharm grade and generics over the years, these people can give solid evidence of their own experience using both types of HGH. Yes there are two members who try and shout very loudly regarding generics but to be very honest they dont bring any foundation with their claims, they have only used generics and only for 2 yrs. How can any of these give any kind of feedback except on the products they have been using. As well you know you and many other bodybuilders were fooled by generics for many years so reading into their excuses or beliefs doesn't put any new light on anything, infact they are back in time to be honest because I and many others were shouting and claiming the same thing 10 years ago.
> 
> The price to test for active hgh is very expensive and you also know its out of the price range for everyone here. The Chinese also know this which my Chinese source told me about when I was discussing generic quality, the are way ahead of the game than the us.
> 
> I personally feel you have to go off experience from users who have used many generics and pharm grades and listen to them. I also know that its an impossibility to try and convince the new generic users that they have been wasting their money or buying fake because they simply are blinded by so called results/sides and more so price. I would only use hgh from a licenced lab and I would never use generics again. If your happy using what every your using keep with it because its an impossibility to convince the new generic users they have been wasting their money, if you want to get some personal experience pm BG/Extrlarg/Ronnie Rowland etc they will also tell you all about your source who you buy off, many things have changed Notsmall so I advice you to give them a PM and find out about the source you was using months ago, but if you looking for the active lab test it isnt going to happen aswell you and the Chinese know it isnt. 
> 
> Ive given up trying to convince people, I am just passing on many friends/staff/members and my own experience.


Mate I am not using any GH any more and it will stay that way until I get some pharma stuff - and even then I think that unless I could pick it up direct from the factory or straight out of a fridge at a hospital (neither of which is very likely! lol) I would steer clear - this whole thing has just jaded me against it.

----------


## JimInAK

I think Marcus' explanation and evidence is valid, regarding the complexity and necessity to use a testing procedure that is highly complex and would logically not be available to the layman. The only company that would have the financial motivation to do such a test would be an HGH producer, while an individual with a competitive product should not expect that a competitor would test another company's product and report objectively that it is as good or better....

I believe that a test through a legally certified GC/MS machine could break down the components and reliably tell you what you have. However, the finer point of whether the product is effective could be missed, similarly to the difference between fresh and sour milk, it's both milk, the components are there, but the sour milk is not quite as beneficial. That's my take on this testing argument. Also, as there are more than one process of testing, different detectors within the same process, etc., to my way of thinking there are finer points that leave questions that support Marcus' argument.

I will admit that I also support the possibility that Marcus is correct and the the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. I conceded that the best test is the taste test, ie take both products and the fact that Marcus has taken both does put him in a better position than I to know the truth. I want to know the truth and will try pharm HGH, if and when i am able to do so. The difficulty and expense of getting access to pharm HGH is the problem and the underlying reason we are here arguing this issue.

I still take my Chinese HGH every day. I could say more in defense of my personal decision, but some things are best left unsaid on a public forum and relate to my experience with the specific product that I take, distributor's undocumented claims, etc., so is not specifically relevant to the argument in this thread.

If or when I try the pharm taste test, I will measure the results in three ways: (1) How I feel. (2) If the results are noticeably different. (3) What does a blood test show for my IGF-1 level.

I still believe that an IGF-1 test demonstrates the effectiveness of HGH use. Others posting on this forum do not support that conclusion.

With all that said, I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to compare their experiences on this thread. I respect member's experience and the time people have taken to bring scientific conclusions, statements and opinions to the debate. While everyone here has their own experience and bring their own prejudice to this discussion, I do not discount or disregard Marcus' comments (or anyone else's) because they oppose mine.

When you quit listening, you quit learning. This is a very complex issue and real life experience for others help me determine my course of action.

----------


## marcus300

> I think Marcus' explanation and evidence is valid, regarding the complexity and necessity to use a testing procedure that is highly complex and would logically not be available to the layman. The only company that would have the financial motivation to do such a test would be an HGH producer, while an individual with a competitive product should not expect that a competitor would test another company's product and report objectively that it is as good or better....
> 
> I believe that a test through a legally certified GC/MS machine could break down the components and reliably tell you what you have. However, the finer point of whether the product is effective could be missed, similarly to the difference between fresh and sour milk, it's both milk, the components are there, but the sour milk is not quite as beneficial. That's my take on this testing argument. Also, as there are more than one process of testing, different detectors within the same process, etc., to my way of thinking there are finer points that leave questions that support Marcus' argument.
> 
> I will admit that I also support the possibility that Marcus is correct and the the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. I conceded that the best test is the taste test, ie take both products and the fact that Marcus has taken both does put him in a better position than I to know the truth. I want to know the truth and will try pharm HGH, if and when i am able to do so. The difficulty and expense of getting access to pharm HGH is the problem and the underlying reason we are here arguing this issue.
> 
> I still take my Chinese HGH every day. I could say more in defense of my personal decision, but some things are best left unsaid on a public forum and relate to my experience with the specific product that I take, distributor's undocumented claims, etc., so is not specifically relevant to the argument in this thread.
> 
> If or when I try the pharm taste test, I will measure the results in three ways: (1) How I feel. (2) If the results are noticeably different. (3) What does a blood test show for my IGF-1 level.
> ...


Fair comment and fully appreciated.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

I have been using chinese hgh and a friend the same hgh. His anti-aging doc told him in his last blood tests that whatever he is using for hgh is working. I have been taking 2 iu's for about a year and a half and not really sure if it's working anymore. Another friend is using half the dosage of a well known us brand and claims his results are amazing. He is only using 1iu per day. I am going to try the U.S. brand to see the difference of course the cost is much different. I am also suspicious of the chinese brands as I have recently switched to what is suppose to be the best of the chinese brands and not noticing any difference. WHAT IS CTS??

----------


## funsize

> WHAT IS CTS??


CTS = Carpal tunnel syndrome is pressure on the median nerve -- the nerve in the wrist that supplies feeling and movement to parts of the hand. It can lead to numbness, tingling, weakness, or muscle damage in the hand and fingers.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> CTS = Carpal tunnel syndrome is pressure on the median nerve -- the nerve in the wrist that supplies feeling and movement to parts of the hand. It can lead to numbness, tingling, weakness, or muscle damage in the hand and fingers.


Ahh yes I did have that way back when i started. On another note, I recently had hair grafts and my doc could not believe how fast my hair grew in. Also, she thought that she was going to have to clean up my scar where they removed the donor hair and after 2-1/2 months she said she did not have to because the scar healed so well. I may just have stabilized on the 2iu's per day. I will have a better comparison after i try the U.S HGH.

----------


## jz1985

i have been using riptropin for two months and the results are amazing. using 5ius 5/2 split in 2 shots. i have put on 7 lbs in that time and lost 2 inches on my waist while not eating very clean. My skin and hair looks better then ever and I feel great, the pumps are insane at the gym. I had some water retention at first but it seems to have gone away. I have tried oarange tops, blue tops, and kigtropin and i can honestly say the riptropin is the best one i have tried. I would try pharm grade if i had access to it, but for the price you cant go wrong. Also i havnt used aas in over a year.

----------


## 808

I first started with generic Chinese yellow tops over a year ago, great results. Then my source dried up and I found a clinic in Florida that got me prescription hgh. Due to the costs and the prescription recommendations, the results were ok, yellow top results were better. Just about a month ago I got blue tops are from IP GETROPIN 10 IUs vials from the same source as the yellow tops. About 10 to 15 mins after a 2IU sub q, my hunger goes out of control and I start sweating. I use bac water to mix and notice that when I mix, it dissolves instantly so I know its prob not HGH. Anyone have any idea what this might be? Thanks everyone.

----------


## JimInAK

> I first started with generic Chinese yellow tops over a year ago, great results. Then my source dried up and I found a clinic in Florida that got me prescription hgh. Due to the costs and the prescription recommendations, the results were ok, yellow top results were better. Just about a month ago I got blue tops are from IP GETROPIN 10 IUs vials from the same source as the yellow tops. About 10 to 15 mins after a 2IU sub q, my hunger goes out of control and I start sweating. I use bac water to mix and notice that when I mix, it dissolves instantly so I know its prob not HGH. Anyone have any idea what this might be? Thanks everyone.


From my experience, real HGH does not dissolve instantly. There will always be a small amount that will take a couple of minutes of gently rotating the vial to get it to mix. Your reaction to the injection is not a reaction ever associated with HGH.

You could try a pregnancy test to see if it's HCG . However, HCG doesn't give you that type of reaction following injection. If I received something like that, particularly from an unknown source, I would discontinue its use.

----------


## lovbyts

> I first started with generic Chinese yellow tops over a year ago, great results. Then my source dried up and I found a clinic in Florida that got me prescription hgh. Due to the costs and the prescription recommendations, the results were ok, yellow top results were better. Just about a month ago I got blue tops are from IP GETROPIN 10 IUs vials from the same source as the yellow tops. About 10 to 15 mins after a 2IU sub q, my hunger goes out of control and I start sweating. I use bac water to mix and notice that when I mix, it dissolves instantly so I know its prob not HGH. Anyone have any idea what this might be? Thanks everyone.


Sorry Dude.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...fter-injection

----------


## sitries

you have GHRP6 my friend. much cheaper than HGH but at least its not hcg .

----------


## Sc0rch

> Depends if you want to believe many experienced members/staff who have used pharm grade and generics over the years, these people can give solid evidence of their own experience using both types of HGH.


The only problem I have is the staff members saying or implying there is no such thing as real Chinese generic hgh.

----------


## "Maximus"

> The only problem I have is the staff members saying or implying there is no such thing as real Chinese generic hgh.


Where/when did you read that? I went through the entire thread and clearly noticed the reference made to anything coming out of china that doesn't come from a *licensed lab* manufacturing hgh-process.

I've been using pharm-grade hgh since 2008, and I WAS contemplating going generic as my pharm-grade has increased in price but thanks to this thread and factual statements made I've been saved from wasting my time, energy, and above all, hard-earned money.

----------


## Sc0rch

I read the entire thread as well. That is your understanding, this is my understanding of the Staff's position on Chinese generic HGH:

There is no such thing as real Chinese generic HGH. All Chinese generic HGH contains no HGH, but contains IGF and a bunch of chemicals that mimic HGH sides. These chemicals adversely affect your health.

If my understanding is incorrect, I would like a STAFF member to correct it.

----------


## Damuscleman2011

Does this work with any other gear?

----------


## rayresults

I have just started Kigtropin HGH, it did not have sticker on box, which worries me, the cap has a circle with lines through it. Good pressure in vial, have to take air out and it does take a while for last bit to dissolve as discussed, anyone know if this is legit.

----------


## justify

> I have just started Kigtropin HGH, it did not have sticker on box, which worries me, the cap has a circle with lines through it. Good pressure in vial, have to take air out and it does take a while for last bit to dissolve as discussed, anyone know if this is legit.


which color caps you got?

----------


## rayresults

Blue Caps.

----------


## JimInAK

> Blue Caps.


ray - 

justy is fvcking with you. the color of the cap means nothing.

read through this entire thread. you will have both sides of the story. i can't say any more than what i've already said in this thread related to how you can tell if your HGH is genuine. others disagree with me and their statements are also listed. this website also has links on the steroid .com homepage for further general information. i have found the information provided on the front page of this site (through its links) to be very accurate.

there are other places for information. i would be very skeptical of claims made by anyone selling their product. i similarly do not trust government sources, who have a stake in the game (to maintain control). information from medical establishment sources similarly has a serious money stake in maintaining control of pharm products and often provide biased information. a doctor i who puts out information i trust regarding HGH is Elmer Cranton, M.D.

good information is out there, but you're going to have to sort through a lot of conflicting information to find the truth...

----------


## marcus300

> I have just started Kigtropin HGH, it did not have sticker on box, which worries me, the cap has a circle with lines through it. Good pressure in vial, have to take air out and it does take a while for last bit to dissolve as discussed, anyone know if this is legit.


You really need to read the whole thread and digest it all, there's a boat load of information within this thread.

----------


## rayresults

Thanks for the help guys, I guess i need to start reading :Smilie:  Kind of a lot of info here. Thanks again

----------


## Mark999

Hi together!

First sorry for my bad english. I'm from switzerland and english isn't my native language. 
Back to topic:

Since a while I am concerned in hgh. Here in my country there is a lab where I can test different substances, also HGH. For HGH they use the method PhEur. With this method they can test the purity, identity, content and the related substances. 
After studying this forum here, I asked the chemist about the biological activity. The answer was: I'ts possible to have different biological activities in hgh but there are no values to measure them for the moment.

I get tested some different chinese hgh.
All thes red, green, blue, black, yellow tops I get tested are IGF-1 with low purity (~75%) and other not identifical substances. One blue top I get tested was hgh with low purity (<75%). The last one actually in test are the rips, today I get a preliminary result that the hgh has a high purity, higher than the official reference substance. That means the chemist has to order an other CAS reference substance! So i'm still waiting for the result.

personal conclusion
I tested green tops hgh (containing igf-1) and the feeling was bad. I got a blood sugar fall (correct english?). They were sell as Jintropin.
Now I'm on rips (3.3iu 5/2 in the morning) and the results are great. I can eat what I want an I still loose fat (bf <8%).

When you dissolve the hgh with the water it takes a while to get completely dissolved. A little rest takes 2-3min. If it dissolves directly is other stuff, perhaps igf-1-

When I get the result from the rips I will post them.

----------


## noserider

My take after 9 years of gh research. From best to the rest; Humatrope, Nutropin AQ, Jins, Anke's, Riptropin, Nordictropin, Elitropin, chinese generics.
Every brand of gh caused to some degree water retention resulting in CTS and various other sides. Brands made by licensed facilities had two things in common.
1. Sides eventually became nil, except minor CTS. Nutropin AQ was great but made my jaw ache most of the time.
2. Results come in sooner all while also using less iu's. 

I was really impressed with Rips after going through 500iu's last summer and getting my igf levels checked. My numbers were where they should be for my dose. I use for anti aging and stay in the 2-3iu. While on Rips, my skin was differnt and my hair and nails grew much faster. I woke up refreshed every morning and just felt great all around. 
Riptropin IMO is the best stuff coming out of china not named Jin, Anke Bio or Genheal. I have yet to try Hyge's but with so many fakes, don't think I ever will. 

Just wanted to share my experiences.

----------


## marcus300

> Hi together!
> 
> First sorry for my bad english. I'm from switzerland and english isn't my native language. 
> Back to topic:
> 
> Since a while I am concerned in hgh. Here in my country there is a lab where I can test different substances, also HGH. For HGH they use the method PhEur. With this method they can test the purity, identity, content and the related substances. 
> After studying this forum here, I asked the chemist about the biological activity. The answer was: I'ts possible to have different biological activities in hgh but there are no values to measure them for the moment.
> 
> I get tested some different chinese hgh.
> ...





> My take after 9 years of gh research. From best to the rest; Humatrope, Nutropin AQ, Jins, Anke's, Riptropin, Nordictropin, Elitropin, chinese generics.
> Every brand of gh caused to some degree water retention resulting in CTS and various other sides. Brands made by licensed facilities had two things in common.
> 1. Sides eventually became nil, except minor CTS. Nutropin AQ was great but made my jaw ache most of the time.
> 2. Results come in sooner all while also using less iu's. 
> 
> I was really impressed with Rips after going through 500iu's last summer and getting my igf levels checked. My numbers were where they should be for my dose. I use for anti aging and stay in the 2-3iu. While on Rips, my skin was differnt and my hair and nails grew much faster. I woke up refreshed every morning and just felt great all around. 
> Riptropin IMO is the best stuff coming out of china not named Jin, Anke Bio or Genheal. I have yet to try Hyge's but with so many fakes, don't think I ever will. 
> 
> Just wanted to share my experiences.



Strange both new members trying to state rips are the only good hgh out of China. I think you 2 are the same person pushing the worse crap you could buy, rips are garbage.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Strange both new members trying to state rips are the only good hgh out of China. I think you 2 are the same person pushing the worse crap you could buy, rips are garbage.


Not saying anything about this guys testing. I was using getropin for a long time and getting good results. My supplier dried up and went with jintropin from another supplier. I stopped using it as i was getting bloated as hell and could not figure it out. My diet was good and even ramped it up, but the bloat was continuing. 2-1/2 weeks after stopping jin. my bloat completely went away losing about 9 lbs. of water. Finally i can see my abs again. I went through a kit and 3/4 before figuring it out along with the help of this thread. My suspicion of my hgh led me to pop on this site and look at hgh again. This thread makes a lot of sense as I think the chinese are laughing there asses off at us. Seems like everyone has hgh these days. How did it become so plentiful? I,m suspicious of all of it name brand chinese or generic!

----------


## noserider

> Strange both new members trying to state rips are the only good hgh out of China. I think you 2 are the same person pushing the worse crap you could buy, rips are garbage.


Lol, I was one of the posters arguing with the Riptropin seller in the threads over at CM(canadian super board) that got deleted by the mods. I stand by what I said in that I believe the Riptropin source sold bad gh to some board members. Since then I had the opportunity to try rips from a different source, The Provider, and been a fan ever since. 

I responded to this thread because it was linked to another board. I use the same handle and have been a member of ******** since 97 and also post 
on Professional Muscle(nozeryder). There are some valid posts here that bring up good points about what we're really getting when we buy chinese gh not manufactured by the big 3(Jin,Anke,GenHeal).

I got suckered into trying Getropin aka garbagetropin. 
Maybe I got a bad batch IDK, threw that shit in the trash.

Currently on Elitropin aka Mexi's Green Tops.
Mexi has a good product and a cult following. For whatever reason it's not working for me. I'll just leave it at that.

I just call'em like I see'em.

----------


## funsize

> Original Hyges, Riptropin and Jintropin are the only good hgh from china.


You left out ansomone. I'd take legit ansomone over legit Hyge, Rips or Jins.

----------


## Bob segal

its a shame its so hard to knw if you are using real or fake GH. That reason there is why i lean more towards cjc1293(modgrf1-29) and ghrp-6. That way i knw my body is making My gentic form of gh and fits like a glove in my receptors, becasue its made from me. I would love to thru in some synthetic GH but with all this bullshit of fake or not, doesnt seem worth it. I have seen some nice results from mod cjc 100mcg x 100mcg ghrp-6 , 3 times a day ( morning , pwo, bedtime)

----------


## Sheven

> Hi together!
> 
> First sorry for my bad english. I'm from switzerland and english isn't my native language. 
> Back to topic:
> 
> Since a while I am concerned in hgh. Here in my country there is a lab where I can test different substances, also HGH. For HGH they use the method PhEur. With this method they can test the purity, identity, content and the related substances. 
> After studying this forum here, I asked the chemist about the biological activity. The answer was: I'ts possible to have different biological activities in hgh but there are no values to measure them for the moment.
> 
> I get tested some different chinese hgh.
> ...


really you tested all that? the lab in your country name is SIMEC AG. i dont believe you tested all that because at SIMEC to make a analysis of the HGH is very high cost. At least 1500 Eur for each analysis. royaltropin 10iu was analyzed at them with goods results (purity over 94% which is high enough)

----------


## Mark999

@sheven

It is high cost, but remember that you need just once the CAS reference substance, so 1500euro enough for 2 analyses. You're right there are not a lot of labs to test hgh.

Royaltropin seems to be produced in china by one of the manufacture who knows how to his job.

----------


## Fit N Fun

Mark999

I had my HGH tested for less than $200 at a university lab, there is no need to spend lots of money on testing for HGH purity.





I have been looking for a testing kit for IGF-1 that will show whether my HGH is active or not.

Can anyone provide a link to a supplier of IGF-1 home testing kits?

----------


## gixxerboy1

EDIT YOU POST NOW.

as you know we dont discuss prices or sources. THIS IS NOT A SOURCE BOARD.

----------


## Sheven

> Mark999
> 
> I had my HGH tested for less than $200 at a university lab, there is no need to spend lots of money on testing for HGH purity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have been looking for a testing kit for IGF-1 that will show whether my HGH is active or not.
> ...


you need to make the analysis of MALDI-DS, SDS-Page, quantification. this are much more than 200$, just the reference is way over that.

----------


## JimInAK

> Mark999
> 
> I had my HGH tested for less than $200 at a university lab, there is no need to spend lots of money on testing for HGH purity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have been looking for a testing kit for IGF-1 that will show whether my HGH is active or not.
> ...



I use ZRT Laboratories' "blood spot" kit, which I receive by mail and return by UPS (human blood cannot be lawfully sent through the mail). ZRT works for me from Alaska and should work from anywhere in the USA. Their link is: www.zrtlab.com and the cost of the IGF-1 test was a little less than $100 the last time I had one done.

----------


## Smallbb

If you want to know if your GH is real, do not sleep one night, inject at 5 am, get your blood tested at 7 am. Check IGF1 and Somatotrophin (GH) blood levels. Somatotrophin is cheaper than IGF1 to check. You should be able to get them both tested for less than $100.
Since you won't have slept, the GH in your blood, if any, will be exogenous. As for IGF1, if you're above 250, it means supplementation is working.

Regarding Chinese GH, I don't think it's possible to easily find a combination of drugs that could mimic sides and would be able to give the person the impression it's working with doses ranging from 1 IU to 30 IU a day.
If there was a fairly good drug combination, how could it end up in all the GH brands? It would imply that the combination is well known, and therefore everyone would you about it.
Regarding IGF1-LR3, this is also an advanced compound, why would a lab be able to produce it and not GH? And since GH is reconstituted in water and not in AA solution, I'm pretty sure IGF1 would be destroyed.

I think that Chinese GH falls into 6 categories: 
1 - the good product, not as pure as pharmaceutical GH, but with a purity high enough to exhibit the same biological effects
2 - the poor product, with a biological effect reduced by 50% or more, explaining with certain users need to use more IU
3 - the no GH product, with no biological activity obviously, but no toxicity
4 - the "other" product, containing something like HCG 
5 - the "fake" GH, the drug combination people are talking about, containing things like hypothetic IGF1, anti-diuretic
6 - the toxic product, made by a person with a criminal mind, containing poison 

The well-known Chinese GH products, like real Jin, real Hyge, real Rips, real Ansomone, real Eli, etc. are I think in the 1st category, and if not, in the 2nd category.
the 3rd category is probably common among no-labeled generic.
The 4th is probably very rare, contrarily to AAS, which often fall in this category.
I don't think 5 exists. Considering the dose range (from 1 to 30 IU/day), it could be potentially lethal.
As for 6, I can't imagine any non-fake labeled Chinese product falling into this category.

The fact that vets indicate having used various Chinese labeled and non-labeled Chinese products for almost a decade proves that Chinese GH is at least not lethal.

----------


## BG

> Regarding Chinese GH, I don't think it's possible to easily find a combination of drugs that could mimic sides and would be able to give the person the impression it's working with doses ranging from 1 IU to 30 IU a day.
> If there was a fairly good drug combination, how could it end up in all the GH brands? It would imply that the combination is well known, and therefore everyone would you about it.


As per the first paragraph, Ive ran reds, blues, rips with no results, so right there it tells you they are fake. I just ran Rips a few months ago, from the TOP GH source and at 8 iu's for 3 months NO results. Ive been running Sero since at 4 iu's and my body has already started to transform at week 7. Plus getting trues GH sides...not high BP, head aches and swollen hands. Im getting pins and needles after keeping my hands in a gripping position after for a decent amount of time. As far as mimicking sides, of course its easy, add a diuretic and people will be dropping water which will make them think they are losing BF. I CAN TELL YOU THE BLUS, REDS AND RIPS ARE FAKE, used them all with no results. I hate to repeat myself but, 6 years ago I ran Jins direct from GenSci at 8iu's, with incredible results, plus Sero now so I KNOW. You say how could it show up in a GH brands.....I bet theres only 1 maufacturer for those Generics, maybe 2. Its very easy to put a red top on the vial when the blues are getting bad feedback. Everytime a brand starts to get a bad rap.....boom a new kind comes out. I remeber when it was only blues/browns, then reds and now holy shit.



> The fact that vets indicate having used various Chinese labeled and non-labeled Chinese products for almost a decade proves that Chinse GH is non that dangerous at least.


As far as this, there would be no signs or even ways to know it what ever they put in those vials were dangerous products, plus generics only hit the scener 5 years ago, it takes time for cancer and other diaseases like that to show up.

BTW nice first post, its seems you are backing the Rips and Hyges who are sold by one of the bigger sources out ther, so between having one post and seems you are backing a certain source you claim holds not merit.....oh wait no proof of what you are saying also, pure speculation.

----------


## BG

As far as Hyges ( 8iu tops are the only ones Ive ran, three different times), I do believe they are as close to real generic you can get but VERY underdosed. I think they are 2-3iu vials sold as 8. When Hyges (8iu top) first showed up I ran them, they were good, close to what the jins were. Now this was right after ORD, so you couldnt get Jins anymore but Generics just hit. I believe they were about twice as expensive as they are now. But since then, the price has dropped and I believe the dosage also. Since the og batch Ive ran them twice and only got some (not great) results around 8-10iu's. Not even close to the results Im getting from 4ius of pharma. Now I recently had 1000iu's of Rips, I ran 500 at 8iu's with no results and guess what my source said....I will exchange them for Hyges. That right there tells you the rips are fake and that the Hyges (definitly still very underdosed and not worth the money) are as close to real gh that he had.

----------


## BG

> Since then I had the opportunity to try rips from a different source, The Provider, and been a fan ever since. 
> 
> .


My 100 ius came from him, they were fake and he was willing to exchange them and pay for it......




> Not saying anything about this guys testing. I was using getropin for a long time and getting good results. My supplier dried up and went with jintropin from another supplier. I stopped using it as i was getting bloated as hell and could not figure it out. My diet was good and even ramped it up, but the bloat was continuing. 2-1/2 weeks after stopping jin. my bloat completely went away losing about 9 lbs. of water. Finally i can see my abs again. I went through a kit and 3/4 before figuring it out along with the help of this thread. My suspicion of my hgh led me to pop on this site and look at hgh again. This thread makes a lot of sense as I think the chinese are laughing there asses off at us. Seems like everyone has hgh these days. How did it become so plentiful? I,m suspicious of all of it name brand chinese or generic!


The Jins are HIGHLY faked also, IP has cloned almost every good product that became unavailible. BD, QV and Jins to start.

----------


## Smallbb

> BTW nice first post, its seems you are backing the Rips and Hyges who are sold by one of the bigger sources out ther, so between having one post and seems you are backing a certain source you claim holds not merit.....oh wait no proof of what you are saying also, pure speculation.


Come on, do I look I'm trying to advertise something. I chose these examples because they are the most discussed these days. My point is that selling GH is a lucrative business for the established generic labels, so they should logically try to sell something that satisfies the customer. 




> Ive ran reds, blues, rips with no results, so right there it tells you they are fake.


So you are saying that the people who checked their IGF1 blood levels and reported elevated levels were all lying?




> As far as mimicking sides, of course its easy, add a diuretic and people will be dropping water which will make them think they are losing BF.


But most critics, even in this thread say that they contain an anti-diuretic. So, is it an anti-diuretic or a diuretic that the Chinese put in their vials?

----------


## BG

> Come on, do I look I'm trying to advertise something. I chose these examples because they are the most discussed these days. My point is that selling GH is a lucrative business for the established generic labels, so they should logically try to sell something that satisfies the customer. 
> 
> 
> So you are saying that the people who checked their IGF1 blood levels and reported elevated levels were all lying?
> 
> 
> But most critics, even in this thread say that they contain an anti-diuretic. So, is it an anti-diuretic or a diuretic that the Chinese put in their vials?


They dont care if it satisfies their customer, this is the fuc'n Chinese we are talking about. The dont give a fuc about anything but money. Have you ever noticed that after the first batch of generics is released that they start to get bad feedback and after a little while there pops out a new brand?? They are shit. I ran the first batch of Reds, they were pretty good then a few months later I bought more and my sides went away. They send out a real good first batch then drop the dosage or send something out in its place. they do it all the time. Iran test-e, tested at 333mgs per ml.....holy shit !!! Everybody bought them, guys were getting shitty results so they had them tested......172mgs, old bait and switch. As far as me saying diuretic, I said "they could use" so get it straight, thats the fuc'ing thing...we have no idea whats in them.

Lets talk about you, one post here, whats your credibility?? What have you used, pharma and what generics? How long have you been using GH? All I here from you is you speculating that they are real....Ive used them all with no results and Ive used (still using) 3 different pharma grades to compare them to.

----------


## Smallbb

> They dont care if it satisfies their customer, this is the fuc'n Chinese we are talking about. The dont give a fuc about anything but money.


This sounds a bit racist to me. 




> All I here from you is you speculating that they are real.


Correct, all you hear from me is speculation, but mostly a suggestion I made to know if your product is real or not through a simple blood test protocol.
I didn't say all Chinese products are good, I said that there is a likelihood that certain non faked Chinese labels that have been around for a while are of decent quality. 
My personal experience doesn't really matter since it's anecdotal, and as you pointed out possibly biased.

----------


## Fit N Fun

If someone knows where to buy IGF-1 test kits at a reasonable price, this subject would have a more positive conclusion.

I have looked but not found any, does any one know of a low cost option?

----------


## BG

> This sounds a bit racist to me. 
> 
> 
> Correct, all you hear from me is speculation, but mostly a suggestion I made to know if your product is real or not through a simple blood test protocol.
> I didn't say all Chinese products are good, I said that there is a likelihood that certain non faked Chinese labels that have been around for a while are of decent quality. 
> My personal experience doesn't really matter since it's anecdotal, and as you pointed out possibly biased.


Racist? The Chinese are the biggest to be found, they hate all other races and most of all American's. They use lead paint on our childrens toys, sheetrock as meds/viagra and sent sheetrock here that made thousands sick, thats just a few. They dont even like there own people (the common person), they make women and children work for pennies in sweat shops.....come on and you say they put real fuc'n GH in unlabeled blackmarket vials.........that gives me a good laugh. Im starting to think you are one of the chinese sources more and more.

----------


## cyounger100

> My 100 ius came from him, they were fake and he was willing to exchange them and pay for it......
> 
> 
> The Jins are HIGHLY faked also, IP has cloned almost every good product that became unavailible. BD, QV and Jins to start.


not trying too argue with you but i have been dealin w him since he came around and he want send out 100 iu solo are you saying out of a bulk 1 kit was bad ?

----------


## BG

> not trying too argue with you but i have been dealin w him since he came around and he want send out 100 iu solo are you saying out of a bulk 1 kit was bad ?


I dont understand......

----------


## Smallbb

> come on and you say they put real fuc'n GH in unlabeled blackmarket vials.........that gives me a good laugh.


You considered Jin, Ansomone, and to some extent the other products I mentioned unlabeled?




> Im starting to think you are one of the chinese sources more and more.


How did you find out about me?  :Smilie:

----------


## Mark999

So, now i got the result, but if I will post them nobody will believe it...but anyway: the related substance is less than 0.2% and the content is much higher (4.5mg)...

----------


## cyounger100

> I dont understand......


nevermind shouldnt of posted against the rules anyway

----------


## jay5

post up man who cares what people say.. I think everyone here is old enough to beleive something they read is real or not let us decide, i personally would appreciate it

----------


## dkoslo22

Iv recently become close with one of my chinese suppliers he told he that placenta extract is used in the majority of "HGH" sold products, including his? I asked him if he know what Somatotropin was and he said no

----------


## peter klein

> as we are all aware the global market for human growth hormone is worth millions if not billions of dollars and because of this is attracts the attention of the more unscrupulous amongst our community.
> 
> In the past people have been sold hcg believing it to be hgh, let’s face it, to the beginner or novice it looks the same or very similar, you reconstitute it and can inject it just like you do with hgh. One big difference is the price, hcg is much cheaper to produce than hgh and therefore to the guy who wants to make a quick buck it becomes very appealing. Luckily for us it’s easy to test for hcg using a pregnancy test, put some of the water on the test and if it shows a positive result then voila! You have hcg.
> 
> So what are the fakers trying to pass off as hgh these days? Well they are certainly selling us freeze dried ai’s, these compounds will strip the body of it estrogen and that will make you loose some water and become ‘leaner’. This can often fool the user into thinking they have lost bf and increased lean muscle, and as most people run aas with their hgh they won’t have a clue that what they are taking is a million miles from what they thought they have spent their hard earned cash on because their estrogen levels would of been raised by the aas anyway. The problems arise here when you come off the ai and get a massive estrogen rebound, and then you will know for sure you have been deceived. 
> 
> Ok so how can we tell that we have real hgh without sending to the lab to be tested and also not testing it on yourself?
> 
> The answer to this question is quite simple and anyone can do it. When you reconstitute your hgh (or what you think is hgh) you need to watch how it dissolves when it comes into contact with the water. Does it disappear instantly? If so then i doubt very much that you have hgh, what you want to be seeing are a few white flakes at the bottom of the vial which remain, you then need to gently swirl the bottle around until the disappear, this could take 30 seconds or more and is a very good indicator that what you have is real hgh, or what we commonly believe to be hgh...update. It seems that the chinese are able to create a substance that dissolves like hgh so beware that the remaining flakes are not always a sigh that your hgh is g2g.
> ...


spot on!

----------


## peter klein

> As we are all aware the global market for human growth hormone is worth millions if not billions of dollars and because of this is attracts the attention of the more unscrupulous amongst our community.
> 
> In the past people have been sold HCG believing it to be HGH, let’s face it, to the beginner or novice it looks the same or very similar, you reconstitute it and can inject it just like you do with HGH. One big difference is the price, HCG is much cheaper to produce than HGH and therefore to the guy who wants to make a quick buck it becomes very appealing. Luckily for us it’s easy to test for HCG using a pregnancy test, put some of the water on the test and if it shows a positive result then voila! You have HCG.
> 
> So what are the fakers trying to pass off as HGH these days? Well they are certainly selling us freeze dried AI’s, these compounds will strip the body of it estrogen and that will make you loose some water and become ‘leaner’. This can often fool the user into thinking they have lost BF and increased lean muscle, and as most people run AAS with their HGH they won’t have a clue that what they are taking is a million miles from what they thought they have spent their hard earned cash on because their estrogen levels would of been raised by the AAS anyway. The problems arise here when you come off the AI and get a massive estrogen rebound, and then you will know for sure you have been deceived. 
> 
> Ok so how can we tell that we have real HGH without sending to the lab to be tested and also not testing it on yourself?
> 
> The answer to this question is quite simple and anyone can do it. When you reconstitute your HGH (or what you think is HGH) you need to watch how it dissolves when it comes into contact with the water. Does it disappear instantly? If so then I doubt very much that you have HGH, what you want to be seeing are a few white flakes at the bottom of the vial which remain, you then need to gently swirl the bottle around until the disappear, this could take 30 seconds or more and is a very good indicator that what you have is real HGH, or what we commonly believe to be HGH...Update. It seems that the Chinese are able to create a substance that dissolves like HGH so beware that the remaining flakes are not always a sigh that your HGH is g2g.
> ...


Let me share my knowledge and experience, I know for a FACT there is NO real IGF-1 out of China. I knew this from contacts in China and the US government. They're not licensed and this is further confirmed by Ken Stone who monitors China products,

----------


## peter klein

So if there's no real authentic(licensed) IGF-1 in China? The million dollar question is what have they been selling as their IGF-1? They've been selling Chinese IGF-1 as IGTROPIN and generic blue tops IGF-1. So what's in their? I know its NOT real authentic IGF-1. Guys they make this stuff in backyards, bathrooms and UG factories in China. Another major issue is the very poor quality control standards in China. We know China has the worst quality control standards in the world. Its confirmed by the UN. Their quality control for both food and pharmaceuticals is horrible. Not only are they the world leaders of professional counterfeiting, pretty much all their meds are counterfeit. They sell counterfeit food and meds to their own people, so imagine what they give to foreigners such as us. Chinese industry does NOT comply with any patent or copyright laws and the Chinese government supports it because its a huge part of their economy.
They make the fake viagras, fake rolexes, fake designer label clothes, fake electronics(ipods,iphones,ipads). You think they're not going to make fake IGF-1 and HGH too? Don't be naive.....
They even counterfeit on top of each other, for example they counterfeit the jintropins. Truth is even if there was real jintropin, I personally would never inject Chinese pharmaceuticals into my body! I respect and love my health for that.... NEVER inject a drug that has questionable quality control? The Chinese are laughing all the way to the bank because ignorant bodybuilders keep injecting chinese drugs into their bodys not knowing what the long term effects will be. Gene or cell mutations? It amazes me and mind boggles me why people would inject something into their blood knowing it has no quality control and is a possible counterfeit too. How much is your health really worth? 
The saying is true "you get what you pay for..." "If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck it is a duck!"
Truth is if you know where to look and have the right hook up you can get US made hgh and real receptor grade igf-1 at good prices.

Hope this helps you...

----------


## peter klein

> Let me share my knowledge and experience, I know for a FACT there is NO real IGF-1 out of China. I knew this from contacts in China and the US government. They're not licensed and this is further confirmed by Ken Stone who monitors China products,


Here's the link to Ken Stone regarding IGF-1 from China, scroll down to IGF-1 http://www.ecademy.com/module.php?mo...file&fid=30761

----------


## marcus300

> So if there's no real authentic(licensed) IGF-1 in China? The million dollar question is what have they been selling as their IGF-1? They've been selling Chinese IGF-1 as IGTROPIN and generic blue tops IGF-1. So what's in their? I know its NOT real authentic IGF-1. Guys they make this stuff in backyards, bathrooms and UG factories in China. Another major issue is the very poor quality control standards in China. We know China has the worst quality control standards in the world. Its confirmed by the UN. Their quality control for both food and pharmaceuticals is horrible. Not only are they the world leaders of professional counterfeiting, pretty much all their meds are counterfeit. They sell counterfeit food and meds to their own people, so imagine what they give to foreigners such as us. Chinese industry does NOT comply with any patent or copyright laws and the Chinese government supports it because its a huge part of their economy.
> They make the fake viagras, fake rolexes, fake designer label clothes, fake electronics(ipods,iphones,ipads). You think they're not going to make fake IGF-1 and HGH too? Don't be naive.....
> They even counterfeit on top of each other, for example they counterfeit the jintropins. Truth is even if there was real jintropin, I personally would never inject Chinese pharmaceuticals into my body! I respect and love my health for that.... NEVER inject a drug that has questionable quality control? The Chinese are laughing all the way to the bank because ignorant bodybuilders keep injecting chinese drugs into their bodys not knowing what the long term effects will be. Gene or cell mutations? It amazes me and mind boggles me why people would inject something into their blood knowing it has no quality control and is a possible counterfeit too. How much is your health really worth? 
> The saying is true "you get what you pay for..." "If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck it is a duck!"
> Truth is if you know where to look and have the right hook up you can get US made hgh and real receptor grade igf-1 at good prices.
> 
> Hope this helps you...


This is what this thread is all about and I agree on all aspects.

Please edit your post asking members to pm you, this will get you ban. We are not a source board whether on the open board or in private.

----------


## Fit N Fun

> I use ZRT Laboratories' "blood spot" kit, which I receive by mail and return by UPS (human blood cannot be lawfully sent through the mail). ZRT works for me from Alaska and should work from anywhere in the USA. Their link is: www.zrtlab.com and the cost of the IGF-1 test was a little less than $100 the last time I had one done.


Ordered an IGF-1 blood spot testing kit yesterday, am currently taking 2 iu HGH in the morning and 2 iu in the early evening, 5 days on 2 days off.

What results should I get if my HGH is active?

----------


## hwy1378

> Ordered an IGF-1 blood spot testing kit yesterday, am currently taking 2 iu HGH in the morning and 2 iu in the early evening, 5 days on 2 days off.
> 
> What results should I get if my HGH is active?


Do we know of any labs that will test a vial of HGH ?

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> Ordered an IGF-1 blood spot testing kit yesterday, am currently taking 2 iu HGH in the morning and 2 iu in the early evening, 5 days on 2 days off.
> 
> What results should I get if my HGH is active?


Mine was 492 on 4iu ED, no AAS. What was your baseline?

----------


## Markosterone

Almost all UG AAS raws come from china, why is it impossible for them to make HGH also ?
I mean, if they can fake electronics and make faktories that copies a whole line of products and has its own customer suppurt even..
Yes they do fake everything in the world, but they also make the real deal to.

Also, why would packages get siezed if there is no hormone in there? I have had packages get siezed and then shipped forward to me with some of the conten still in there, I can only imagine that they tested it and it came out as a non illigal one.
While with HGH, I don't get it if its siezed. eighter this means there is hgh in there, or there is something else illegal in there.

There must be someone out there that has ordered HGH online and then get called in to the police for questioning when it got siezed ?
they usually test it before they call you in.. thats what they did to me, but wasn't avout the hgh that time...

Anyone ?

----------


## JimInAK

> Ordered an IGF-1 blood spot testing kit yesterday, am currently taking 2 iu HGH in the morning and 2 iu in the early evening, 5 days on 2 days off.
> 
> What results should I get if my HGH is active?


Your IGF-1 reading should roughly increase about 80 to 100ng/ml per 1 iu per day for each unit you are taking. You need to test before taking HGH to establish your baseline reading, in order to observe an accurate increase in IGF-1. If you are older, as I am, you can expect a baseline reading of around 150, although individuals do vary.

It also takes time to raise your IGF-1 level. I took my first IGF-1 test after 4 daily HGH doses and my IGF-1 increase over baseline was only a 20% increase. After a month of taking HGH daily, my IGF-1 test result fully increased.

The IGF-1 test is used medically because it provided a stable marker (an inferential reading) based on the effect that HGH has to promote your body to produce IGF-1. It's my understanding that testing for actual HGH production in your body is hit and miss, as your natural HGH release come in pulses.

I hope this information is helpful.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> Almost all UG AAS raws come from china, why is it impossible for them to make HGH also ?
> I mean, if they can fake electronics and make faktories that copies a whole line of products and has its own customer suppurt even..
> Yes they do fake everything in the world, but they also make the real deal to.
> 
> Also, why would packages get siezed if there is no hormone in there? I have had packages get siezed and then shipped forward to me with some of the conten still in there, I can only imagine that they tested it and it came out as a non illigal one.
> While with HGH, I don't get it if its siezed. eighter this means there is hgh in there, or there is something else illegal in there.
> 
> There must be someone out there that has ordered HGH online and then get called in to the police for questioning when it got siezed ?
> they usually test it before they call you in.. thats what they did to me, but wasn't avout the hgh that time...
> ...


Customs doesn't test suspected illegal substances. They just send you a letter saying that they are holding a suspected illegal substance addressed to you and if you want it then you need to notify them or come and get it within 30 days or it will be incinerated.

----------


## juttsdm5

> Yes I have a lab what will test the hgh, pm me


ill be starting HGH legally on sept 1rst ! Marcus, ive been doing a lot of research on the drug itself and different ways of getting it. I too believe china HGH is really IGF. It sure would be nice to pick up some Hyge.s for those great prices and have it be HGH. This just isnt the case. I think at best some generic companys do sell HGH however its extremely underdosed and its got who know what added to it.

So im making the plung, im going to "PAY" for the real stuff. Its actually not That bad. Im going to run 1.5 IUs at first and go from there. Im looking to cut up at this point. Marcus, you think 1.5 or 2 IUs of Pharma grade is good for cutting ?

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## Markosterone

> Customs doesn't test suspected illegal substances. They just send you a letter saying that they are holding a suspected illegal substance addressed to you and if you want it then you need to notify them or come and get it within 30 days or it will be incinerated.


Bro, I once got called in to the police for questioning because they siezed a package of tabs.
Belive me when I say this, they had it tested. I had to sit there and lie about it not being mine. They asked me if I knew what it was and I said no. She then asked me if I knew what ********* and ********** was, I said no. They had it all on paper.
They actually asked me by the hormone's real name, and I dont think they can google it by the looks of the pills...

They do test it if they want to bust your ass...

----------


## Fit N Fun

> Mine was 492 on 4iu ED, no AAS. What was your baseline?


Been on 4 iu 5 days on 2 days off for a few weeks now.

I know I am using HGH since I tested it at a university lab ......... results were posted earlier in this thread, just got no idea if it is active or not.

I have no idea what my baseline is, but I am 56 years old so unlikely to be very high.

I will have to wait until I come off HGH to know what the baseline is.






> Your IGF-1 reading should roughly increase about 80 to 100ng/ml per 1 iu per day for each unit you are taking. You need to test before taking HGH to establish your baseline reading, in order to observe an accurate increase in IGF-1. If you are older, as I am, you can expect a baseline reading of around 150, although individuals do vary.
> 
> It also takes time to raise your IGF-1 level. I took my first IGF-1 test after 4 daily HGH doses and my IGF-1 increase over baseline was only a 20% increase. After a month of taking HGH daily, my IGF-1 test result fully increased.
> 
> The IGF-1 test is used medically because it provided a stable marker (an inferential reading) based on the effect that HGH has to promote your body to produce IGF-1. It's my understanding that testing for actual HGH production in your body is hit and miss, as your natural HGH release come in pulses.
> 
> I hope this information is helpful.


 Thanks Jim,

Saw this from an Italian study, so assume you are in my age range.

The median IGF-I levels were 206 ng/ml in the range 2539 years, 147 ng/ml in the range 4059 years and 103 ng/ml in the range≥60 years

I will post up the results so that they can be judged either way, good or bad, but reading between the lines on yours and Sgt. Hartman's figures, I will expect 450ng/ml or higher if my HGH is fully active!

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> Been on 4 iu 5 days on 2 days off for a few weeks now.
> 
> I know I am using HGH since I tested it at a university lab ......... *results were posted earlier in this thread, just got no idea if it is active or not.*
> 
> I have no idea what my baseline is, but I am 56 years old so unlikely to be very high.
> 
> I will have to wait until I come off HGH to know what the baseline is.
> 
> 
> ...


I remember reading your previous posts - I'm taking the same GH as you (which has my IGF at 492 at 4iu) and yes it's active and amazing!

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> Bro, I once got called in to the police for questioning because they siezed a package of tabs.
> Belive me when I say this, they had it tested. I had to sit there and lie about it not being mine. They asked me if I knew what it was and I said no. She then asked me if I knew what ********* and ********** was, I said no. They had it all on paper.
> They actually asked me by the hormone's real name, and I dont think they can google it by the looks of the pills...
> 
> They do test it if they want to bust your ass...


LOL. Wasn't trying to argue with you man, your experience with customs was just a lot different than mine.  :Smilie:

----------


## Markosterone

> LOL. Wasn't trying to argue with you man, your experience with customs was just a lot different than mine.


No worries about that bro..
I just thought that maybe someone on this forum has had a similar experience, but with HGH in the package, but I guess not.

----------


## stang

i don't trust china on anything they fake 95% of everything just look at the stuff in stores pick up something made from china its junk made cheap why would there gh be any diff

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## juttsdm5

> i don't trust china on anything they fake 95% of everything just look at the stuff in stores pick up something made from china its junk made cheap why would there gh be any diff


they produce because we still buy it. nobody want to work or pay for it anymore ! If we stopped purchasing the crap comming out of there they will go out of business.

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## Sesso

I dont know what to think about it all. I know I had sides from just 2 iu for the first week and second week they went down. 3rd week I went up to 2.5 iu and sides came back. Did 3 iu one of those day and took a nap. Woke up a few hours later feeling bloated. My skin on my arms were tight and my fingers felt fat. Tingling sensation almost like sore tendon feelings. Swollen feet if I walked around for more than a few hours at one time. I also sleep very well now when before using GH I would wake up during the night.

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## Fit N Fun

> i don't trust china on anything they fake 95% of everything just look at the stuff in stores pick up something made from china its junk made cheap why would there gh be any diff


If you are unsure of your supplier, get your GH mass spectrometer tested at a lab and / or get your IGF levels tested.

The fakers will get the message when you stop buying and the good companies will continue to supply what they always have.

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## JimInAK

FYI - Two years ago, before I started taking HGH my IGF-1 level was 158 ng/ml. I was 50 years old at the time....

----------


## CEKoop

OK, I am new here. I actually JUST registered today, after spending all day reading this very thread.

There is some very good information here. I kinda want to add my .02 but I'm also nervous I'm going to get flamed! Please be nice  :Smilie:  I want to be short, but I have a feeling my post will get long. I'll try to be concise!

So, I stumbled across this thread because I recently purchased some "blue tops" (which, as others have said, means absolutely nothing). I have a prescription for HGH, and I've been getting it through a pharmacy, but it's freakin' expensive, and I just can't afford it anymore. So, I searched out alternative sources.

At first, this seemed like a great deal (not cheap, but much less than pharma prices) but I didn't realize what I was ordering  :Frown:  I didn't know it was generic, unlabeled, etc. Right off the bat, I realized I probably could not take this, being unlabeled/unknown (this seems obvious?) But, I'm desperate, and I WANT to be convinced that it is safe, so I started Googling to learn more about it. This thread has been very helpful and I have learned a lot here. Sadly, it confirms my original concerns that what I purchased is absolutely not safe (for me). Sigh. Well, that it COULD be safe, but there is no way to know for sure, so for me, I can't risk it. I'm so disappointed : (

Anyway, I wanted to chime in with a couple of points about testing- not to stir up more controversy, but because this is what was going through my head as I was reading this thread. I take HGH (was on Genotropin, now I'm on Norditropin) for a medical condition. I get it from a pharmacy, and am monitored by a physician. I have IGF-1 tests every 6 weeks, and I've also done the insulin -tolerance test, which is different than your standard blood test. Those are the only two blood tests for HGH. Obviously, IGF is not HGH, but it is used as a marker; no one measures HGH directly, not even in pituitary patients. Docs all go by IGF-1. I live in the US, and this has been my experience here.

So, I've been getting IGF tests forever now; I have noticed a few things. 
1- *Regarding blood tests*. As others have stated, IGF levels vary depending on time of day- but not so much that it should make a difference in getting a general ballpark idea of how you are doing on the med. I have never had my physician or the lab or the pharmacy or the package insert tell me I have to get labs within a certain time after my injection. I take my injection (subQ) before bed. I usually get labwork done in the morning (not fasting), just because morning is convenient for me, but sometimes my doctor appt is in the afternoon, so that's when the labs get drawn. It's never off more than a few points in either direction. This might be different for others, but i think really the drug metabolism should be the same? For example, I don't think you would see an IGF level of 400 in the morning and 200 in the afternoon. It has to be more stable than that, or my doc would be more specific about when/how I get tested, since we are closely monitoring a specific health condition that has to be super-accurate. Also, FWIW, if I want to get "baseline" labs (off GH) I have to wait 4-6 weeks taking NO HGH, so the HGH definitely just doesn't metabolize and disappear within a few hours. Sure, there are spikes in HGH after you take it (and natural spikes in what your body produces) but remember, you are not measuring HGH, you are measuring IGF-1, which is a more stable/accurate marker of how your body is using the HGH.
I think the concern about the 5 hours was that the blood has to be tested within 5 hours of the blood draw. I think that's if the blood is just sitting in the vial at room temperature; probably because IGF breaks down in the sample. I believe most labs draw IGF samples in a specific tube, and then they freeze the sample, so it can last longer than 5 hours. 
2- IGF levels also vary by the lab performing the test. I have had IGF drawn at one laboratory and the results were 40 points lower than they were 2 weeks previous when drawn at a different laboratory. Both labs have different reference ranges as well. So, (just an example) 100 at one lab can be equivalent to 140 at another lab. Which doesn't make any sense to me, but that's how it goes. So, keep that in mind if you use a different lab every time. It's probably best to use the same lab each time, for consistency, and tracking results. Also, I have never heard of measuring IGF by blood spot test, I'm not sure how accurate that might be (honestly, I just don't know- not trying to say that test is bad, but as others have mentioned, the testing method and specimen handling can influence results). But I'm thinking... if whole blood has to be tested within 5 hours OR refrigerated/frozen to get an accurate measure, I am not sure how a spot of dried blood that is subjected to who knows what type of temperature/handling conditions as it takes time to go through the postal service will yield an accurate result?
3- Obviously all this talk about IGF testing doesn't mean a thing if what is in the vials is some other substance that increases IGF.
4- *Testing the vials.* I also had the idea about testing the vial (that's how I stumbled across this thread) BUT- correct me if I'm wrong here- but that might not help much either, because that would only give you results for that particular batch. You'd have to test every single batch you get to know that each one is OK. Right? I understand the idea that it might verify whether a particular source or distributor is good- but to go back to the Original Post- it's not (necessarily) the _source_ that might be the problem. I might totally, 100% trust my source... but I don't know where HE gets it. He might truly believe it's legit stuff. I'm with XL (I think it was?), I don't trust a darn thing coming out of China- whether it's pharmaceuticals or lawn manure. China has a terrible reputation for contaminated goods (of ALL kinds- food, toothpaste, toys, baby formula)- and that is from their "legitimate" manufacturers. If this stuff comes from a less-than-legitimate source (and we just don't know where it REALLY comes from), what kind of quality control do THOSE manufacturers have? It could be intentionally diluted, substituted, counterfeited, etc- OR it could be UNintentionally contaminated (foreign materials, metals, mercury, lead, other ingredients, fungi, bacteria, maybe the guy making it or packaging it didn't wash his hands that day, etc). But let's say you test a vial (if that is even possible) and that sample is totally legit. How do you know the _next_ batch in 6 months is just as good? Even if your source is legit, you're right back to all of the original unknowns- where was it manufactured, how was it handled, how was it shipped, did it sit in the belly of a hot container ship for 14 days, etc. But most important- WHAT is in it? And there is no way to know : ( Maybe one batch is good, and the next batch is not. It's too much money to gamble (imo). But the _bigger_ concern is the health risk.
5- Already mentioned in this thread- even if you COULD test the vial- the testing available doesn't even give you the whole picture. IF you could find a lab to test it (I saw a few mentioned, thx, that's what I was looking for) and IF it was cost effective to test (every batch...???) it seems that the best a lab can do is tell you whether your sample contains the rHGH protein sequence- but not whether that sequence is possibly useless because it was mishandled somewhere along the way, and now it's degraded or useless. It also doesn't tell you what ELSE is in it. I am highly allergic to certain fillers. Let's just say for argument's sake that my vials are actually 9iu HGH and 1iu cornstarch. I am so highly allergic to corn, that would send me to the ER, or possibly kill me. Obviously that is a very specific example. But it applies to everyone- what if there is _some_ HGH and _some_ cyanide? Having a useless substance that doesn't have any HGH in it (or much less than you think) when you are paying so much for it would be bad enough- but even worse- if it's not HGH, what IS it??? We don't have any way to know, right? Unless you spend thousands of dollars testing every vial? No effect is bad enough. BAD effects would be worse  :Frown:  

I'm sorry this is so long, especially since I am new and you guys don't know me from anyone... I hope this post is OK, I just found this WHOLE thread SO useful as I have been researching this issue and wanted to add what I know about testing in case it's helpful to anyone. I do want to thank the original poster for creating this thread, and all of you who posted really useful replies about testing. OK, I'll stop typing now... even though my brain is still rambling... (and overwhelmed!)

----------


## The Incredible Dump

I find it hard to trust alot of the advice on these forums about fake gear or under-dosed gear. The forums are great to come on and get soem tips on diets, training regimes, stacks or even just how and when to take stuff but, there are too many dealers and pushers on here to trust when someone slags another source or brand or even a country off. They are fighting for our custom so it makes sense to slag off products that they don't sell themselves or put you off or even just make you doubt your own sources.
I think there probably is a load of fake stuff coming from China but, there's a lot of fake stuff coming from everywhere! I've had pharma grade steroids and they worked amazingly however, I've also tried a brand that has been slated on here plenty of times and still got pretty much the same results.
So, don't believe everything you hear because I think there are just as many fakes on this forum as there are apparently coming out of China.

I just wish it was all legal. Too many shady characters has left me doubting everyone and not just China.

----------


## gixxerboy1

> I find it hard to trust alot of the advice on these forums about fake gear or under-dosed gear. The forums are great to come on and get soem tips on diets, training regimes, stacks or even just how and when to take stuff but, there are too many dealers and pushers on here to trust when someone slags another source or brand or even a country off. They are fighting for our custom so it makes sense to slag off products that they don't sell themselves or put you off or even just make you doubt your own sources.
> I think there probably is a load of fake stuff coming from China but, there's a lot of fake stuff coming from everywhere! I've had pharma grade steroids and they worked amazingly however, I've also tried a brand that has been slated on here plenty of times and still got pretty much the same results.
> So, don't believe everything you hear because I think there are just as many fakes on this forum as there are apparently coming out of China.
> 
> I just wish it was all legal. Too many shady characters has left me doubting everyone and not just China.


Nice. You are here 1 month and 6 post but you are doubting the integrity and honesty of the mods and staff. 
If you actually knew this site. you would know we don't have any sources on here. We don't discuss sources or scammers. So i dont know where you get off saying people are pushing their own stuff.

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## Matt

^^^^^ Nobody and i mean nobody in this thread or on this forum is pushing anything...

This board is for information only, its not a source board...

This is to The Incredible Dump

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## The Incredible Dump

I'm sorry, I didn't realise it took years of being a member and hundreds of posts to have a better understanding of human nature... This stuff goes on all over, this stuff goes on on forums, and I can't help thinking the no fishing or sourcing on the forums is to clean up the competition for others on here to dominate.
I don't trust people and if this site wasn't about naming brands then why is it ok to name them when slagging off certain brands? 

And I don't 'get off' on saying anything on here. I just question the motives of people and unless you know every member personally and not on the internet (where you don't know them at all) then you can't say this stuff doesn't happen on here. There will be people trying to push products onto other members on here, even if it's as subtles as guiding them in decision making. This is why I can't trust everything I read on here because I've already found some of it to be dead wrong.

Some of it has also been dead right too, though.

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## shane39

Has anyone ever heard of ???? They have an elaborate web page and great customer service. My package came within seven days and had all the right bells and whistles. I got all the sides one may look for, but stopped taking it because of all the phony hoopla. Thanks for your time I am new to this sight and look forward to hearing from people in the know.

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## Matt

> *I'm sorry, I didn't realise it took years of being a member and hundreds of posts to have a better understanding of human nature*... This stuff goes on all over, this stuff goes on on forums, and I can't help thinking the no fishing or sourcing on the forums is to clean up the competition for others on here to dominate.
> I don't trust people and if this site wasn't about naming brands then why is it ok to name them when slagging off certain brands? 
> 
> And I don't 'get off' on saying anything on here. I just question the motives of people and unless you know every member personally and not on the internet (where you don't know them at all) then you can't say this stuff doesn't happen on here. There will be people trying to push products onto other members on here, even if it's as subtles as guiding them in decision making. This is why I can't trust everything I read on here because I've already found some of it to be dead wrong.
> 
> Some of it has also been dead right too, though.


No but it takes thousands of posts and years of being a member to understand how this board works...

If your not comfortable here or have no positive input then please find else where to lurk with your negativity...

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## shane39

Has anyone ever heard of pro.com?????? They have an elaborate web page and great customer service. My package came within seven days and had all the right bells and whistles. I got all the sides one may look for, but stopped taking it because of all the phony hoopla. Thanks for your time I am new to this sight and look forward to hearing from people in the know.

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## Matt

^^^ Read the rules you clown and edit both your posts...

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## The Incredible Dump

You are wrong. I've read these forums long before I became a member. Whether I post or not makes no difference. It's only members who've been on here for years or have thousands of posts who'd say something so stupid becuase you think it makes you more important and me less intelligent for not being on here as long.
I don't lurk anywhere with negativity, I've had nothing but positivity on these forums mostly and I do like the forum. However, I don't agree with everything being said about China on here and I know for a fact some of the brands that have been slagged off on here are legit gear as I get my bloods done regularly and monitored by specialists to make sure I don't screw up.
But it seems if you disagree with anyone one here who is a mod or has 'thousands of posts' then it's open season. 
My opinions are just as important and just as fair as anyone elses. That's the point in a forum.

And it obviously doesn't take thousands of posts to understand these forums it takes just 1 and that's 1 post where you don't agree with the main man and you realise what a house of cards this is.

Also aswell as not naming brands or surces on here I thought most forums had rules against racism?

China are public enemy on here so it seems... Must have had a chinese member disagree with you on here once?

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## shane39

Sorry about that. Hope the problem is fixed.

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## shane39

Has anyone ever heard of o.com?????? They have an elaborate web page and great customer service. My package came within seven days and had all the right bells and whistles. I got all the sides one may look for, but stopped taking it because of all the phony hoopla. Thanks for your time I am new to this sight and look forward to hearing from people in the know.

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## shane39

Anyone ever thought about doing some volunteer work at an aids hospice????

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## shane39

Anyone ever thought about doing some volunteer work at an aids hospice????

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## gixxerboy1

> You are wrong. I've read these forums long before I became a member. Whether I post or not makes no difference. It's only members who've been on here for years or have thousands of posts who'd say something so stupid becuase you think it makes you more important and me less intelligent for not being on here as long.
> I don't lurk anywhere with negativity, I've had nothing but positivity on these forums mostly and I do like the forum. However, I don't agree with everything being said about China on here and I know for a fact some of the brands that have been slagged off on here are legit gear as I get my bloods done regularly and monitored by specialists to make sure I don't screw up.
> But it seems if you disagree with anyone one here who is a mod or has 'thousands of posts' then it's open season. 
> My opinions are just as important and just as fair as anyone elses. That's the point in a forum.
> 
> And it obviously doesn't take thousands of posts to understand these forums it takes just 1 and that's 1 post where you don't agree with the main man and you realise what a house of cards this is.
> 
> Also aswell as not naming brands or surces on here I thought most forums had rules against racism?
> 
> China are public enemy on here so it seems... Must have had a chinese member disagree with you on here once?


It sound like you are the one trying to push something. You just join. The only thread you post in is about the chinese gh. You call out the staff. And say you know certian brands are real and that you know by your bloodwork that yours is good. You sound like the one with the agenda. 

No staff member here has pushed any brand. All we say is to stick with real human grade gh because the chinese generics have gone to shit. So now cause we try to look out for people we are the bad guys. 

You think its hard to see through your shit. Get the fvck off our board

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## sleepy33

All I know is that after reading this thread, I'm not taking any chances. I'll be looking for only pharm grade HGH. Thanks to everyone who posted for saving me my money by not buying fakes

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## JimInAK

> You are wrong. I've read these forums long before I became a member. Whether I post or not makes no difference. It's only members who've been on here for years or have thousands of posts who'd say something so stupid becuase you think it makes you more important and me less intelligent for not being on here as long.
> I don't lurk anywhere with negativity, I've had nothing but positivity on these forums mostly and I do like the forum. However, I don't agree with everything being said about China on here and I know for a fact some of the brands that have been slagged off on here are legit gear as I get my bloods done regularly and monitored by specialists to make sure I don't screw up.
> But it seems if you disagree with anyone one here who is a mod or has 'thousands of posts' then it's open season. 
> My opinions are just as important and just as fair as anyone elses. That's the point in a forum.
> 
> And it obviously doesn't take thousands of posts to understand these forums it takes just 1 and that's 1 post where you don't agree with the main man and you realise what a house of cards this is.
> 
> Also aswell as not naming brands or surces on here I thought most forums had rules against racism?
> 
> China are public enemy on here so it seems... Must have had a chinese member disagree with you on here once?




Consider what you want and discard the rest. Facts can be independently verified. Opinions can be considered or discarded. Almost everyone operates with a degree of racism and most every other 'ism. That's part of the human package.

Everything said here in the forum are opinions. Some people have strong opinions and are not open to considering others. Some hold their opinions so strongly that they are compelled to bash others in an attempt to make their point. That is the way it is. It's human nature.

This forum isn't perfect, but if it isn't good enough for an individual then they are free to move on. It's interesting for me to consider all sides of an issue and to try understand motivations and prejudices. There is good information and points of view to be considered if you are willing to dig through some crap occasionally.

On a good day, I discover that there are others more screwed up than me. Isn't life grand... LOL

----------


## The Incredible Dump

Finally a real reply! Gixxerboy just tells people to get off his board if you don't agree with every word he says. It's pathetic.

----------


## gixxerboy1

> Finally a real reply! Gixxerboy just tells people to get off his board if you don't agree with every word he says. It's pathetic.


if you are going to come on here and accuse people of shit. Then yea. You been here a month, know nobody and want to make accusations. Then yea you arent welcome here. 

I dont care if you have a different opinion or agree with me. I care that you say that we are making shit up to push our products or people who sell different things. That complete bullshit. You have no justification for your comments.

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## The Incredible Dump

Yes I do. Maybe you should read my original post again. Yous frequently warn people for naming certain brands or sources then say nothing when other brands are torn apart. It seems the rules only apply when it suits you so yeah, I am justified in making the comments I made.
The way you've responded to someone disagreeing with your point of view speaks volumes.
It's too elitist this forum and unless people are kissing your ass you don't want to know. It might come as a suprise to you but, you don't know everything and you come across as condescending. You love playing the mr. know-it-all. Of course that all fell apart when I didn't agree with you on something.

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## gixxerboy1

> Yes I do. Maybe you should read my original post again. Yous frequently warn people for naming certain brands or sources then say nothing when other brands are torn apart. It seems the rules only apply when it suits you so yeah, I am justified in making the comments I made.
> The way you've responded to someone disagreeing with your point of view speaks volumes.
> It's too elitist this forum and unless people are kissing your ass you don't want to know. It might come as a suprise to you but, you don't know everything and you come across as condescending. You love playing the mr. know-it-all. Of course that all fell apart when I didn't agree with you on something.


what brands are being named or torn apart? The only brands allowed to be discussed on this board are human grade products. If thats hgh or steroids . How is generic Chinese a brand?

Name 1 time on this board a source has been discussed. Tell me what post in this thread you see anything good or bad about a source? There isn't one and you know it. 
So again you are making shit up to start shit that isnt there. So yes i have a problem with YOU not cause i disagree but because you are making accusations with no proof and making up shit to try and justify your comments.

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## The Incredible Dump

Well I've seen plenty of threads on here about various BD sites and the .EU gets some grief on here also. You have a proeblem with me because I stood up to you and called you out and you're not used to it. You sidestep or completely ignore what I say and just say things like get of the forum or I've only been on a month, only made 6 posts etc etc. I didn't realise expertise relied on how many posts you had or how many years you'd been a member. Must get in touch with Jay Cutler and tell him where he's been going wrong all these years... Needs more posts. You'd probably throw that down his neck aswell though. 
I've justified my previous comment with every other comment I've made but, you won't have it. I'm not asking you or anyone to see things my way, I'm just throwing my opinion into the ring which you took as a personal insult and haven't done much bar trying to insult me and tell me to go away.
I Didn't say I think it's the mods putting people off stuff deliberately I just said I think there are people on here doing it. It IS possible that a Mod is doing it but, I didn't say that. I've jsut seen enough controversial comments on here to make me wonder and, lik eeveryone else on here I thought I'd atleast give people a heads-up and something to think about. Afterall aren't these forums here for that very reason?
Also generic Chinese HGH is NOT a brand yes, so how can you label them all the same? If these forums are really about helping people why can't the mods and the mods only have a thread telling people what's real and what's fake, what's under-juiced and so on? Or how about sites where you can get good gear from?
Unless I get someone to go to Thailand and get me pharma grade stuff and risk bringing it back I have to order online which I hate doing. Even if it's the same potency I still feel a bit ripped at the thought it's not pharma grade. Why can't this site do that?
It seems you go half way then give up, it blurs the lines for me and this leaves me feeling a little unsure on what exactley to believe and as I've said before why some sites are named and shamed and others are forbidden. It doesn't make sense to me.

I haven't swore at you or told you to go away so I'd appreciate you being a little more civil with me. I'm sure I'm not the on'y member on here who has had this doubt before but, I'm the only one brave enough to voice it knowing it would go down so badly.

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## SlimmerMe

^^^ this site is not for telling members where to get good gear so hoping for this is reaching far beyond what happens here. What does happen here is access to a multitude of view points from all over the world. Reading and listening and learning from others experiences is a huge gift actually. And all for free. So please try to focus on what this place is about....not what it is not about. 

Enjoy~

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## gixxerboy1

> Well I've seen plenty of threads on here about various BD sites and the .EU gets some grief on here also. You have a problem with me because I stood up to you and called you out and you're not used to it. You sidestep or completely ignore what I say and just say things like get of the forum or I've only been on a month, only made 6 posts etc etc. I didn't realise expertise relied on how many posts you had or how many years you'd been a member. Must get in touch with Jay Cutler and tell him where he's been going wrong all these years... Needs more posts. You'd probably throw that down his neck aswell though. *its not that you cant know what you are talking about bb wise or steriod wise. Its that you been here a month and claim to know the motives of people on here you dont know. That what i am talking about you only being here for a month*
> I've justified my previous comment with every other comment I've made but, you won't have it. I'm not asking you or anyone to see things my way, I'm just throwing my opinion into the ring which you took as a personal insult and haven't done much bar trying to insult me and tell me to go away.
> I Didn't say I think it's the mods putting people off stuff deliberately I just said I think there are people on here doing it. It IS possible that a Mod is doing it but, I didn't say that. I've jsut seen enough controversial comments on here to make me wonder and,*well considering a staff memeber started this thread and most of the things against the hgh are by staff why wouldnt people take your post that way* lik eeveryone else on here I thought I'd atleast give people a heads-up and something to think about. Afterall aren't these forums here for that very reason? *No. This site is for information about steriods and how to use them safe. We dont discuss sources, websites or aynthnig related to purchasing them. There are other sites for that if thats what you are looking for.*
> Also generic Chinese HGH is NOT a brand yes, so how can you label them all the same? *do you realize the type of equipment it takes to make real hgh? Do you think there are 20 different labs in china making it? No there are putting different color tops or labels on the same shit. I've been in this game for a long time and trust me i know more about this then you or am willing to put out*If these forums are really about helping people why can't the mods and the mods only have a thread telling people what's real and what's fake, what's under-juiced and so on? Or how about sites where you can get good gear from?
> Unless I get someone to go to Thailand and get me pharma grade stuff and risk bringing it back I have to order online which I hate doing. Even if it's the same potency I still feel a bit ripped at the thought it's not pharma grade. Why can't this site do that?
> It seems you go half way then give up, it blurs the lines for me and this leaves me feeling a little unsure on what exactley to believe and as I've said before why some sites are named and shamed and others are forbidden. It doesn't make sense to me.*no sites are named or recommended again you are saying false shit to justify your comments*
> 
> I haven't swore at you or told you to go away so I'd appreciate you being a little more civil with me. I'm sure I'm not the on'y member on here who has had this doubt before but, I'm the only one brave enough to voice it knowing it would go down so badly.*nobody so new comes on here calling out people and the integrity of the board and members with no proof of anything*


answers in bold

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## The Incredible Dump

Wow you really don't know what your talking about. You nearly had me fooled for a while but time and again you can't answer my questions instead you try to make out I'm saying things I'm not so you can give an answer that makes you (as always) look high and mighty.

I can say pretty much what I like when I like regardless of how long I've been on here and like I said before I've read these forums for a long time before feeling the need to become a member and write these God-building posts. And regardless of how long you have been on here you DO NOT know everyone on here, even the people you think you know you could have all wrong. This IS the internet.

It doesn't matter if a staffer wrote the thread, I can still offer an opinion in general.

Your answer about sources and naming websites is again way off the mark. I didn't say I was coming on here to tell people sources i was giving my opinion on the things some of the dodgier characters on here might be doing NOT asking to name websites.

I asked WHY (read up the definition of why) you can't give sources and as a mod tell people where the good stuff is and what's definitly fake. To which you still have no answered...

And yes thanks I am more than aware of how HGH is made and how it's a very expensive process but, it is YOU who does not have the proof to back up what you say unless you get every brand coming out of china, test it then put a percentage on what's legit and what isn't.

And YES the .EU site HAS been named and discussed on here along with it's products so don't lie. Simple as that.

And so what, nobody so far has come on here so new and argued with someone with SO MANY POSTS like you but, that's becuase I'm not so easily led and don't worship you like a God but see you as just a human. One with a massive ego and judging from some of the posts I've read from you to people you're condescending, think you know it all and have more of an attitude than me!

You still have failed to answer properly. I've learnt more about this forum in the past 2 days than the whole time I've ever read it. And that's what a load of rubbish it is. It's probably you dealing all the gear and putting people off. Why else would you spit your dummy like this and have no real come-backs to anythin i've said?

----------


## The Incredible Dump

I asked a question. Why is it impossible to get a straight answer out of you guys? What a dodgy bunch...

----------


## gixxerboy1

> I asked a question. Why is it impossible to get a straight answer out of you guys? What a dodgy bunch...


what question have you not gotten an answer to?

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## The Incredible Dump

Either you're trying to be clever and failing miserabley or you really are that stupid. Either way we're just going to keep going round in circles here. You'll keep answering the questions you THINK i'm asking instead of the ones written and you'll keep twisting my words so you have something you can actually say back. This site has gone way down in my opinion after actually talking to you. I've learned you really are full of it. I can't be botherd to waste anymore time replying to a fake. 

You failed and all you had to do was just answer my questions and accept everyone has an opinion that IS NOT the same as yours.

----------


## gixxerboy1

> Wow you really don't know what your talking about. You nearly had me fooled for a while but time and again you can't answer my questions instead you try to make out I'm saying things I'm not so you can give an answer that makes you (as always) look high and mighty.*what question was not answered?*
> 
> I can say pretty much what I like when I like regardless of how long I've been on here and like I said before I've read these forums for a long time before feeling the need to become a member and write these God-building posts. And regardless of how long you have been on here you DO NOT know everyone on here, even the people you think you know you could have all wrong. This IS the internet.*You are correct and some of the people on here i do know personally.*
> 
> It doesn't matter if a staffer wrote the thread, I can still offer an opinion in general. *you are not offering an opinion. you are making aqusations*
> 
> Your answer about sources and naming websites is again way off the mark. I didn't say I was coming on here to tell people sources i was giving my opinion on the things some of the dodgier characters on here might be doing NOT asking to name websites.*i didnt say you were*
> 
> I asked WHY (read up the definition of why) you can't give sources and as a mod tell people where the good stuff is and what's definitly fake. To which you still have no answered...
> ...


in bold

----------


## The Incredible Dump

I guess you really are retarded then...

----------


## noserider

> All I know is that after reading this thread, I'm not taking any chances. I'll be looking for only pharm grade HGH. Thanks to everyone who posted for saving me my money by not buying fakes


Really, unless you're buying gh from a pharmacy you run the risk of buying degraded or bunk gh. You are obviously not scripted if you're "looking". You think just bc you're buying that pretty little box that says Humatrope that it automatically has always been properly stored and handled? You can get screwed just as easily trying to buy pharma grade off the street as with buying chinese gh.

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## marcus300

> I find it hard to trust alot of the advice on these forums about fake gear or under-dosed gear. The forums are great to come on and get soem tips on diets, training regimes, stacks or even just how and when to take stuff but, there are too many dealers and pushers on here to trust when someone slags another source or brand or even a country off. They are fighting for our custom so it makes sense to slag off products that they don't sell themselves or put you off or even just make you doubt your own sources.
> I think there probably is a load of fake stuff coming from China but, there's a lot of fake stuff coming from everywhere! I've had pharma grade steroids and they worked amazingly however, I've also tried a brand that has been slated on here plenty of times and still got pretty much the same results.
> So, don't believe everything you hear because I think there are just as many fakes on this forum as there are apparently coming out of China.
> 
> I just wish it was all legal. Too many shady characters has left me doubting everyone and not just China.


 
This thread is about GH not steroids and if your concern is about fake steroids I would think its better suited somewhere else in the forum rather than a concerns thread relating to GH. I agree that there are many fakes in both steroids and gh coming from China but also many other parts of the world. I also agree with you that there are forums what push their sponsors selling steroids/gh but you fail to see WE are not a source board and WE don't push any steroids or gh. Of course there are going to be threads and posts what staff miss to delete or edit but on a whole the board is clean from any sources or pushing of a particular brand. These other boards are actually produced with the aim to deceive their members and sell them fakes/underdosed etc steroids and gh. Many of these forums have fake member accounts what state rubbish so members believe the sponsors gear is good and 100% yet the whole forum is dedicated to pushing and making money from poor quality/fake gear, I am not naming other forums but its clear that this board isnt like that and if you can't see that then I would question your mental capabilities.

We are also not asking you to trust what every member/staff say, after all its opinion based board and we all give our opinion, what you do is read and take from it what ever you like, but I will say this about this board we have a huge amount of knowledge what is independent and not driven by sponsors, we state our OWN opinion and if you don't want to follow or take the advice given from someone who as probably been training and using gear longer than you have been alive then that's your choice but there are many and I mean many members who do listen and take the advice and that's why WE are NO1 steroid forum on the internet and that's why we remain at the top.

Now within this thread there is a lot of good information and there are guys who will not except that generic gh's are poor but without repeating myself over and over which seems to be a regular occurrence because some people fail to grasp or want to believe they have been wasting their money on crap I will keep this short. The Chinese can produce chemicals what mimic gh sides, these generic companies are using anti-duretic hormones, igf, AI's and a boat load of other chemcals we have never heard of in their generic gh, ive been told this by some Chinese sources and ive experienced the crap myself over the years. The results what many experince are a mixture of these chemicals and the aas being used along side a solid diet. If many actually used pharm grade gh they would know what gh is suppose to feel like and do, because I can say without doubt if you use pharm grade gh like bodybuilders are suppose to it will amaze you but many will not except this because they are driven by price and price only. I was sent a large quantity of generic gh from a well known source once with no labels on and a pack of boxes and labels of various generic companies, he told me to label them up to what ever company I wanted to. I have also had good ifg blood test back from generics like most claim but the results between generic vs pharm grade are further apart than North and South Poles. The truth is these second rate labs dont have the equipment or even have the intention in selling 100% gh they are only interested in one thing and that's making money.

Your opinion does count on here just like everyone else's, we are not saying listen to staff only, that would be silly. If you have had good experience with a certain company what many on here slag off then state your opinion but I think members have the right to ask you what experience you have had in all your yrs/months/weeks with aas and gh. There isnt a straight answer to fakes or counterfeit steroids because the truth is many are experience the fakes and other don't. Its all about where you get it from and your OWN experience but you are totally wrong in saying staff here have an agenda to push certain brands, if you knew us you would know how retarded that sounds and in all honesty you sound like a frustrated young child.

I also know other boards and sources are being hit financially because of this thread and how many other people have had their eyes opened to the generic market. Yes that's right this thread as highlighted what crap is being sold on the generic gh market and many have stopped buying and these sources and boards are feeling the pinch. Ive had loads of people contact me to thank me for letting them know my opinion about generics, many have come from other boards saying they have stopped using generics and I know many of these sources/boards what sell and promote this crap are hurting!!

My opinion weather I am staff or not is the same and that is pharm grade gh is far superior than any generic and I wouldn't use generics again if they were free, I would only buy from a licenced lab.

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## lovbyts

Marcus, look at the name (The Incredible Dump) and he likes to argue with you. Hello Bo!!!

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## lovbyts

> Nice. You are here 1 month and 6 post but you are doubting the integrity and honesty of the mods and staff. 
> If you actually knew this site. you would know we don't have any sources on here. We don't discuss sources or scammers. So i dont know where you get off saying people are pushing their own stuff.





> ^^^^^ Nobody and i mean nobody in this thread or on this forum is pushing anything...
> 
> This board is for information only, its not a source board...
> 
> This is to The Incredible Dump


Say hello to Bo...

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## marcus300

> Marcus, look at the name (The Incredible Dump) and he likes to argue with you. Hello Bo!!!


He's not on a proxy so I doubt its Bo and this is my first correspondance with him and probably the last so ive never argued or debated with him before.

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## lovbyts

> Nice. You are here 1 month and 6 post but you are doubting the integrity and honesty of the mods and staff. 
> If you actually knew this site. you would know we don't have any sources on here. We don't discuss sources or scammers. So i dont know where you get off saying people are pushing their own stuff.





> ^^^^^ Nobody and i mean nobody in this thread or on this forum is pushing anything...
> 
> This board is for information only, its not a source board...
> 
> This is to The Incredible Dump





> He's not on a proxy so I doubt its Bo and this is my first correspondance with him and probably the last so ive never argued or debated with him before.


OK I just saw that Matt and gixxerboy1 was going round and round with him and Bo does seem to like to use stupid names like that but if he isnt spoofing then???

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## gixxerboy1

> OK I just saw that Matt and gixxerboy1 was going round and round with him and Bo does seem to like to use stupid names like that but if he isnt spoofing then???


i dont think its Bo, but it dont doubt its a previously banned member

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## Markosterone

Anybody tried the new "UG" HGH that is supposed to be made in the US by US scientists ?

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## noserider

> Anybody tried the new "UG" HGH that is supposed to be made in the US by US scientists ?


I exchanged pm's with someone who just started them last week. Said he was going to do blood work so we'll see. I will say that there is no way in hell I believe that their gh is made in the US.

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## gixxerboy1

> Anybody tried the new "UG" HGH that is supposed to be made in the US by US scientists ?


i dont know what brand you are referring to but there is no american ugl gh

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## Markosterone

> i dont know what brand you are referring to but there is no american ugl gh


I'll send you a PM, check it out...

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## Markosterone

> I exchanged pm's with someone who just started them last week. Said he was going to do blood work so we'll see. I will say that there is no way in hell I believe that their gh is made in the US.


Is this someone anyone you know? maybe you are refering to LB ?

All I can say is if this is the real deal and these guys can provide the volumes they are claiming, the world of GH will change.
But it does sound a little too good to be true though.

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## marcus300

It will be generic, made in China and will have USA packaging and labels.

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## noserider

> Is this someone anyone you know? maybe you are refering to LB ?


Yup, same guy.

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## lovbyts

> Is this someone anyone you know? maybe you are refering to LB ?
> 
> All I can say is if this is the real deal and these guys can provide the volumes they are claiming, the world of GH will change.
> But it does sound a little too good to be true though.


Guaranteed it has nothing to do with me and I also dont believe there is anyway a UG can produce it in the US let alone China for that fact. That's why 99% is fake unless you get Human grade somehow.

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## Markosterone

> Guaranteed it has nothing to do with me and I also dont believe there is anyway a UG can produce it in the US let alone China for that fact. That's why 99% is fake unless you get Human grade somehow.


Not you  :Big Grin: 

I have never done human grade HGH. Have used Rips for 6 monts 5iu ED. It did alot for me when it comes to growing in the gym.
But then again, it is chinese, and I can never know for sure it even is HGH in there or what it is.

//M

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## CEKoop

Interesting series of articles in the NY Times about toxic Chinese products in general- it's a lot to read, but good information: 

*A Toxic Pipeline*
_Stories in this Pulitzer Prize-winning series have examined how dangerous and poisonous pharmaceutical ingredients from China have flowed into the global market. Reporting on four continents, Walt Bogdanich and Jake Hooker traced the illicit ingredients through traders and middlemen that formed a supply chain stretching from small factories in rural China to consumers around the world. The stories detailed the devastating, sometime deadly, human cost of this toxic pipeline._
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/i...ine/index.html

From the Washington Post:
*Tainted Chinese Imports Common*
[I]...among the 107 food imports from China that the Food and Drug Administration detained at U.S. ports just last month, agency documents reveal, along with more than 1,000 shipments of tainted Chinese dietary supplements, toxic Chinese cosmetics and counterfeit Chinese medicines.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...051901273.html

Some Economics Blog:
*More Toxic Imports From China Potentially Harming Children*
_"...China. A country that has flaunted safety rules when it comes to American imports," Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY), who has called for a Food and Drug Administration investigation, said."_
"The blood thinner Heparin manufactured in China was also recalled recently by the FDA after it was found to have caused the deaths of 81 American citizens. Authorities believe that the contaminant, oversulfated chondroitin sulfate, a substance that mimics heparin but costs 99 percent less, entered the drugs supply chain in China."
http://economyincrisis.org/content/m...rming-children

The latest toxic product (you know, after the mercury in kids' play jewelry, lead in toys, toxic drywall, tainted pet food, contaminated toothpaste, poison baby formula, and numerous problems with pharmaceutical manufacturing) coming from China is honey- 
*Asian Honey, Banned in Europe, Is Flooding U.S. Grocery Shelves*
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/08/honey-laundering/
I know... it's honey, not GH. But if you read the article, particularly the section titled *"How Do They Get Away With It?"*  you can see how such business practices would apply to anything manufactured over there. Just substitute GH for honey in the article, and think about it.

Yes, as another poster mentioned, theoretically this could happen anywhere (although I think far less likely in the UK or US due to regulations and inspections). China is who seems to make the news over and over again. Probably due to how the economic blog above phrased it: _"Overzealous to gain precious market share, Chinese manufacturers are notorious for cutting corners to save on production cost. Oftentimes, that results in companies using banned substances simply because they are cheaper than a less toxic substance. That is the world we live in now. The removal of trade barriers have made trade essential to the economy, and in an effort to make trade as smooth and painless as possible, countless products get into American stores without the proper scrutiny. Oftentimes with deadly results."_

A few years ago, _long_ before I ever found this thread about GH, I decided not to buy ANYTHING from China, if I can help it. Not food, not dishes, not pots and pans, not anything I consume, put in my body, or touches my food. Not supplements, not prescription medications... not even dog food. Nothing. I'm not saying all Chinese manufacturers are bad, I'm sure there are quality Chinese businessmen and manufacturers. But there have been so many high-profile stories of one Chinese product after another being tainted with something toxic on a large scale, personally, I simply won't take the chance. So that definitely applies to something I'm injecting! Because if these other, "legitimate" products are tainted, what about the perhaps-not-so-legitimate products? It's not like you can complain to the BBB or the FDA. We're just screwed. And hope it's not something that actually harms you... I mean, how do you explain that in the ER? You can't even tell them what you took...

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## CEKoop

Here is an example on real v. fake pharma grade GH. I don't know about you guys, but I don't think I could tell the difference if this fake was in front of me: 

http://www.gene.com/gene/products/in...aq/update.html

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## Fit N Fun

Bit of History, had my Chinese HGH tested using Maldi Toff and Mass Spectrometer at a university lab which showed that the sample tested was extremely pure and 191AA.

I posted copies of the test results earlier in this thread.

The tests did not give any information on the activity levels, which is clearly an important aspect given how fragile HGH is and therefore subject to degradation while being flown round the world and handled by the delivery services.

I looked hard for a method to test the activity level without luck till one of the posters on this thread posted they had tested for IGF-1 which the liver produces from HGH. 

Just got my IGF-1 test results back.

It is a blood spot test and had to be sent by airmail to another country to get the test results analysed, this may have downgraded the results I got.

Shows that I have 422 ng/ml, with a normal IGF-1 range of 100 to 300 ng/ml

I am taking 9 X 2iu per week from Monday am to Friday am.

Saw an Italian study that said the median IGF-I levels were 206 ng/ml in the age range 25–39 years, 147 ng/ml in the age range 40–59 years and 103 ng/ml in the range≥60 years.

From the above my natural test level must be around 140, so am getting an additional 280 ng/ml from the HGH

My advice to those unsure of whether their source is reliable is to buy directly from the manufacturer, or someone the manufacturer directs you to.

I have been using this HGH on and off for 3 years and am delighted to have some verification of what I felt to be true all along

See the attachment below for a copy of the results

Front_page_for_publication_IGF-1_Test 2.pdf

----------


## trix1000

> This thread is about GH not steroids and if your concern is about fake steroids I would think its better suited somewhere else in the forum rather than a concerns thread relating to GH. I agree that there are many fakes in both steroids and gh coming from China but also many other parts of the world. I also agree with you that there are forums what push their sponsors selling steroids/gh but you fail to see WE are not a source board and WE don't push any steroids or gh. Of course there are going to be threads and posts what staff miss to delete or edit but on a whole the board is clean from any sources or pushing of a particular brand. These other boards are actually produced with the aim to deceive their members and sell them fakes/underdosed etc steroids and gh. Many of these forums have fake member accounts what state rubbish so members believe the sponsors gear is good and 100% yet the whole forum is dedicated to pushing and making money from poor quality/fake gear, I am not naming other forums but its clear that this board isnt like that and if you can't see that then I would question your mental capabilities.
> 
> We are also not asking you to trust what every member/staff say, after all its opinion based board and we all give our opinion, what you do is read and take from it what ever you like, but I will say this about this board we have a huge amount of knowledge what is independent and not driven by sponsors, we state our OWN opinion and if you don't want to follow or take the advice given from someone who as probably been training and using gear longer than you have been alive then that's your choice but there are many and I mean many members who do listen and take the advice and that's why WE are NO1 steroid forum on the internet and that's why we remain at the top.
> 
> Now within this thread there is a lot of good information and there are guys who will not except that generic gh's are poor but without repeating myself over and over which seems to be a regular occurrence because some people fail to grasp or want to believe they have been wasting their money on crap I will keep this short. The Chinese can produce chemicals what mimic gh sides, these generic companies are using anti-duretic hormones, igf, AI's and a boat load of other chemcals we have never heard of in their generic gh, ive been told this by some Chinese sources and ive experienced the crap myself over the years. The results what many experince are a mixture of these chemicals and the aas being used along side a solid diet. If many actually used pharm grade gh they would know what gh is suppose to feel like and do, because I can say without doubt if you use pharm grade gh like bodybuilders are suppose to it will amaze you but many will not except this because they are driven by price and price only. I was sent a large quantity of generic gh from a well known source once with no labels on and a pack of boxes and labels of various generic companies, he told me to label them up to what ever company I wanted to. I have also had good ifg blood test back from generics like most claim but the results between generic vs pharm grade are further apart than North and South Poles. The truth is these second rate labs dont have the equipment or even have the intention in selling 100% gh they are only interested in one thing and that's making money.
> 
> Your opinion does count on here just like everyone else's, we are not saying listen to staff only, that would be silly. If you have had good experience with a certain company what many on here slag off then state your opinion but I think members have the right to ask you what experience you have had in all your yrs/months/weeks with aas and gh. There isnt a straight answer to fakes or counterfeit steroids because the truth is many are experience the fakes and other don't. Its all about where you get it from and your OWN experience but you are totally wrong in saying staff here have an agenda to push certain brands, if you knew us you would know how retarded that sounds and in all honesty you sound like a frustrated young child.
> 
> I also know other boards and sources are being hit financially because of this thread and how many other people have had their eyes opened to the generic market. Yes that's right this thread as highlighted what crap is being sold on the generic gh market and many have stopped buying and these sources and boards are feeling the pinch. Ive had loads of people contact me to thank me for letting them know my opinion about generics, many have come from other boards saying they have stopped using generics and I know many of these sources/boards what sell and promote this crap are hurting!!
> ...


I'm new to this world not trying to hijack here but, how does one know what's generic and not. I joined this site after reading the AAS profile section of site. I liked the fact that they logged there references at the bottom so that you may cross reference and do your own research. I also came along a thread which stated a man got flu like symptoms from generic HGH blue tops, and was hospitalized. Not sure who manufactured but will be steering clear of those. Now I have a reliable source ( I hope ) I guess what my biggest question is.... Should my source not be trusted ? And rather then pinning HGH. Would HGH fragment or GHRP-6 do the same so that I don't need to worry bout bunk gear? >NEW<.

Must say that you guys have impressed me so much after reading this thread. The way you guys put your heads together to warn and gather testing info. I think I have found a place where I can trust the info, and for someone like me that lacks knowledge! I can't begin to tell you or explain how much of a relief this is. 

I look forward to GROWING in every sense of the word, with you guys. 

Mind you I have never willingly injected my self with anything. >pvssy< lol

----------


## Hondarocks

Bump for everyone who is lost or needs to read. One of the biggest thread on the forum, maybe should be stuck somewhere?

----------


## littlebill

I have spent hours reading this thread and there are some very good points that I agree with. If you trust your source- it doesn't matter if your HGH is made in America, China, or Ireland. The fact of the matter is that 75% of all U.S. pharmaceuticals are compounded in China. There was just a big article on this in the Wall Street Journal. I am currently lucky to have Genotropin and I love it. Recently there was a gap in that supply so I did get some from China from a source who had an excellent reputation and been in the business for 10 years. It was excellent. I tested high on my IGF-1, but most importantly I tested my GROWTH HORMONE SERUM LEVELS. See IGF-1 levels can be fooled with peps and, well exogenous IGF consumption. Growth Hormone Serum numbers do not lie. They cannot be fooled by anything. And they cost under $200 to check. Mine, when on the Chinese, were 4X my normal range. I had all the sides, made all the gains, felt great- for about 1/6th of the price. They were vacuum sealed, and packed and delivered very professionally. They were real. I have zero doubt about that. I am a 42 year old man with graduate degrees in chemistry and exercise physiology. I might add 6 years straight of HGH use. My BF is 4%. So those doubting that real 191 HGH is coming out of China are incorrect. If i'm allowed to name the brand I will. I can also furnish my labs to support my claims. Trust the source and you cannot go wrong. Do I like it as much as Genotropin? For 15 cents on the dollar I like it a hellava lot more. For those who have had bad experiences in China, I have had bad experiences in the USA. It's who ya know.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> I have spent hours reading this thread and there are some very good points that I agree with. If you trust your source- it doesn't matter if your HGH is made in America, China, or Ireland. The fact of the matter is that 75% of all U.S. pharmaceuticals are compounded in China. There was just a big article on this in the Wall Street Journal. I am currently lucky to have Genotropin and I love it. Recently there was a gap in that supply so I did get some from China from a source who had an excellent reputation and been in the business for 10 years. It was excellent. I tested high on my IGF-1, but most importantly I tested my GROWTH HORMONE SERUM LEVELS. See IGF-1 levels can be fooled with peps and, well exogenous IGF consumption. Growth Hormone Serum numbers do not lie. They cannot be fooled by anything. And they cost under $200 to check. Mine, when on the Chinese, were 4X my normal range. I had all the sides, made all the gains, felt great- for about 1/6th of the price. They were vacuum sealed, and packed and delivered very professionally. They were real. I have zero doubt about that. I am a 42 year old man with graduate degrees in chemistry and exercise physiology. I might add 6 years straight of HGH use. *My BF is 4%*. So those doubting that real 191 HGH is coming out of China are incorrect. If i'm allowed to name the brand I will. I can also furnish my labs to support my claims. Trust the source and you cannot go wrong. Do I like it as much as Genotropin? For 15 cents on the dollar I like it a hellava lot more. For those who have had bad experiences in China, I have had bad experiences in the USA. It's who ya know.


Are you saying you maintain 4%? Let's see some pics.

----------


## littlebill

OK NP let me see if the mods will let me put pics up- I'm a new member and i tried earlier didnt work but ill try again. On this thread. If they wont let me yet- then when they do i will. Ill try now hold up

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## littlebill

Good enough?

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## littlebill

And ya, I maintain 4-6 tops. 6( after a 6 pack and pizza)

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## Sgt. Hartman

You look great and your calves are disgusting, but that's not 4%. Nice job, it's obvious the work you've put in. 

I remember seeing your name over at another board (I don't ever post over there but check it out once in a while) so welcome to a better board with no BS hidden agenda.  :Smilie:

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## littlebill

Thanks for the welcome and this is a much better board and ya I'm probably not 4 right this second- but pretty close.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

Doesn't matter bro. Wasn't trying to call you out but it seems recently alot of people on here make crazy ridiculous claims about their stats. "I'm at 5% BF but what do I need to do to make my abs visible?" LMFAO.

----------


## littlebill

Hey I'm a new guy here bro. Gotta start at the bottom. It's good- I'll prove myself. and the big thing here that you said- NO AGENDA! Good to see you again Sarge.

----------


## littlebill

I dunno- you don't think I'm 4? Haha

----------


## cyounger100

> I have spent hours reading this thread and there are some very good points that I agree with. If you trust your source- it doesn't matter if your HGH is made in America, China, or Ireland. The fact of the matter is that 75% of all U.S. pharmaceuticals are compounded in China. There was just a big article on this in the Wall Street Journal. I am currently lucky to have Genotropin and I love it. Recently there was a gap in that supply so I did get some from China from a source who had an excellent reputation and been in the business for 10 years. It was excellent. I tested high on my IGF-1, but most importantly I tested my GROWTH HORMONE SERUM LEVELS. See IGF-1 levels can be fooled with peps and, well exogenous IGF consumption. Growth Hormone Serum numbers do not lie. They cannot be fooled by anything. And they cost under $200 to check. Mine, when on the Chinese, were 4X my normal range. I had all the sides, made all the gains, felt great- for about 1/6th of the price. They were vacuum sealed, and packed and delivered very professionally. They were real. I have zero doubt about that. I am a 42 year old man with graduate degrees in chemistry and exercise physiology. I might add 6 years straight of HGH use. My BF is 4%. So those doubting that real 191 HGH is coming out of China are incorrect. If i'm allowed to name the brand I will. I can also furnish my labs to support my claims. Trust the source and you cannot go wrong. Do I like it as much as Genotropin? For 15 cents on the dollar I like it a hellava lot more. For those who have had bad experiences in China, I have had bad experiences in the USA. It's who ya know.


you can post the brand i already believe from reading on other board its rips and its the best for your buck right now

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## BigRick82

MFS..... Mother Fukin Shiet! Been out of the game for about 9 years. Was on HGH back then, just now getting back into it. Wow I didn't know how many fakes are out there. I just recieved 9 kits, 3 different brands from 2 friends and theP. One of the brands from my friend I just started yesterday and already am doubting it. IP Blue Top Somatropin which I think is Nipertropin which has recieved a lot of bad rap, enought to keep me from wanting to take it anymore. I do have some underlying medical conditions that I feel the HGH will benefit me. I've had 4 motorcyle wrecks and the first 3 times I was on GH and healed very quickly. My 4th wreck 4 years ago and I'm still trying to recover. What a waste of $$ IMO. Now I don't want anything but Pharma Grade from the pharmacy with a script. Sheeeeesh~!

----------


## cyounger100

> MFS..... Mother Fukin Shiet! Been out of the game for about 9 years. Was on HGH back then, just now getting back into it. Wow I didn't know how many fakes are out there. I just recieved 9 kits, 3 different brands from 2 friends and theP. One of the brands from my friend I just started yesterday and already am doubting it. IP Blue Top Somatropin which I think is Nipertropin which has recieved a lot of bad rap, enought to keep me from wanting to take it anymore. I do have some underlying medical conditions that I feel the HGH will benefit me. I've had 4 motorcyle wrecks and the first 3 times I was on GH and healed very quickly. My 4th wreck 4 years ago and I'm still trying to recover. What a waste of $$ IMO. Now I don't want anything but Pharma Grade from the pharmacy with a script. Sheeeeesh~!



well tp is good gh been on for a while now is only one i would take other than pharm grade of course

----------


## Stillstriven4sixfeet

Cyounger did u mean to say IP is good?

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## CEKoop

FYI- Article in today's news: 

*China breaks up fake m*dicine racket*
AP, November 3, 2011

China said Friday it had busted a gang that produced and sold fake m*dicine -- some made of animal feed -- arresting 114 suspects and seizing more than 65 million counterfeit tablets.

China has frequently been hit by fake dr g scandals despite government pledges to improve supervision of the industry, triggering growing public outrage over lax controls and official corruption.

The Ministry of Public Security said in a statement that around 1,000 police officers raided 117 dens and pharmacies that produced and sold fake dr gs.

The raids were the result of a four-month investigation during which police discovered that the gang repackaged expired pharmaceuticals, or used dangerous ingredients such as animal feed and chemical pigments to make tablets.

"In order to make the fake dr*gs similar to the real medicine in colour, weight and other senses, some even added iron powder and diazepam (used to treat anxiety disorders) into their products... which caused huge harm to patients," it said.

The statement did not mention whether anyone had died or fallen ill after taking the counterfeit m*dicines or when the raids occurred.

Most of the fake dr*gs were sold to clinics and pharmacies outside city centres or in the countryside, and the sellers used newspapers, magazines and particularly the Internet for promotion, it said.

The case is the latest in a string of food and dr*g safety scandals to hit the nation.

In 2007, Zheng Xiaoyu, former head of the State Food and Dr*g Administration, was executed for accepting $850,000 in bribes in exchange for granting approval for hundreds of m*dicines, some of which were later found to be dangerous.

The case triggered governmental pledges to improve supervision of the country's food and dr*g industries, but incidents have nevertheless erupted since then.

One of the biggest scandals emerged in 2008 when huge amounts of the industrial chemical melamine were found to have been illegally added to dairy products, killing at least six babies and sickening another 300,000.

More recently in September, the government arrested 32 people over the sale of cooking oil made from leftovers taken from gutters.

--end article--

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## Sc0rch

What does this have to do with HGH?

The article says TABLETS.

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## marcus300

> FYI- Article in today's news: 
> 
> *China breaks up fake m*dicine racket*
> AP, November 3, 2011
> 
> China said Friday it had busted a gang that produced and sold fake m*dicine -- some made of animal feed -- arresting 114 suspects and seizing more than 65 million counterfeit tablets.
> 
> China has frequently been hit by fake dr g scandals despite government pledges to improve supervision of the industry, triggering growing public outrage over lax controls and official corruption.
> 
> ...



Thanks for posting,

Just goes to show you what these generic companies are capable of doing when so much money is involved.

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## gixxerboy1

> What does this have to do with HGH?
> 
> The article says TABLETS.


You are only going to hurt yourself by trying to deny everything and keeping your head in the sand

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## cyounger100

> Cyounger did u mean to say IP is good?


nope def didnt mean too say ip never

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## CEKoop

> What does this have to do with HGH?
> 
> The article says TABLETS.


I was only trying to point out that this happens ALL THE TIME with ALL KINDS of medication (and food) made in China. There is no reason to believe that HGH would be an exception. There is no quality control over there. No way to know what you are getting is 1) real and 2) not TOXIC

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## z06vett

wow good info

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## EasyDoesIt

I won't give my dog products from China, nor will I use hgh ever again from China. Using a quality brand now and I now know what the real effects from hgh are. The stuff is amazing, twice as much money, but results are great. Also the bump from 2iu to 3iu's is incredible. Just an FYI. Also, I tried the pens before from the same country as my new high quality hgh and effects were nothing. May have been fake cause it was a different source than my recent hgh which does need refrigerated. I like the hgh that needs refrigerated.

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## DanB

> I won't give my dog products from China, nor will I use hgh ever again from China. Using a quality brand now and I now know what the real effects from hgh are. The stuff is amazing, twice as much money, but results are great. Also the bump from 2iu to 3iu's is incredible. Just an FYI. Also, I tried the pens before from the same country as my new high quality hgh and effects were nothing. May have been fake cause it was a different source than my recent *hgh which does need refrigerated. I like the hgh that needs refrigerated*.


 :Hmmmm: 

did you not used to refridgerate your gh?

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## EasyDoesIt

> did you not used to refridgerate your gh?


Sorry for misunderstanding. Always refrigerate. Was referring to pens that need no refrigeration. They did not work. I have some knowledge. Lol

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## DanB

pens need refridgeration aswell unless the cartridge is empty

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## DanB

mabey that why they didnt work, where did you store them and for how long

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## EasyDoesIt

> mabey that why they didnt work, where did you store them and for how long


Actually i do remember refrigerating after first use. They were pre mixed. The supplier said incredible technology!! Same supplier as chinese junk. I used 1 pen in about a week and a half. 5 on 2 off. A friend used the same product with no results also. Probably just bad product. Different supplier from my present. Thanks for brining that up as i don't want wrong info on this site. Happy with current product and pens are not affordable I'm in late 50's and would like to pretty much stay on for at least 18 months before a break. My present product is more affordable. All about finding the good stuff and stick with it.

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## Attila the Horn

Have there been any counterfeits made of pharm grade HGH? For instance...and counterfeits made of genotropin?

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## BluePoker

Probably a long shot, but was curious if anyone might know about this. I currently live in China, and I am pretty good friends with a doctor here. We got into the discussion of HGH, and he said that if I was interested he could get me the real stuff. He claimed that the quality of Chinese HGH, even real was incredibly low. For example you can go to a pharmacy here and they sell it over the counter, you need a doctor's note, but still. He said that if I actually wanted the real stuff he would need to order it from Hong Kong. He said that the pharmacy companies there have the real stuff and him being a licensed doctor he is allowed to order stuff from Hong Kong pharmacies. I have no idea how to actually check to see if it's really from HK, if it's really HGH, and if he even knows what he's talking about.

Anyone have any idea about HK HGH? Also as a heads up just thought I'd mention that this guy doesn't trust Chinese HGH in the least bit. Also this is not an offer, as I could not ask the doctor to sell it for anyone else.

----------


## redz

All of it is a crap shoot, there are boards that are testing many of the brands right now with very mixed results varying from totally fake to over dosed and of course everything in between. Also there seems to be some questions about the consistency of even the ones that are testing right some times.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> All of it is a crap shoot, there are boards that are testing many of the brands right now with very mixed results varying from totally fake to over dosed and of course everything in between. Also there seems to be some questions about the consistency of even the ones that are testing right some times.


The testing methods they're using are not accurate as they are incapable of testing whether or not the HGH is "biologically active". I made a thread about this a while back but here it is again:


There's always a lot of talk on here about people wanting to get their GH tested and recently another board has posted results of several generic GH brands that they paid to have tested at a licensed US facility. 

The problem with giving these tests any credibility is that there currently isn't a proper method of testing a recombinant protein based drug for "biological activity". In other words it could test to be pure 191aa GH and have absolutely none of the desired effect when administered. This article is written by Boris Y. Zaslavsky, Department of Physiology and Biophysics, Cornell University Medical College. 




Recombinant DNA (rDNA) technology has led to the development of new protein -based drugs that are gaining worldwide regulatory approval. Human growth hormone , human insulin , β- and γ-interferons, and erythropoietin are just a few examples of approved rDNA-derived biopharmaceuticals.

The biological effects, purity, and potency of a drug is governed by the chemical structure of the drug for both traditional drugs and biopharmaceuticals. Standard analytical methodologies used for structural analysis of conventional drugs are, however, inadequate for complete characterization of protein -based products.

Two main reasons for this inadequacy are the large molecular size and conformational flexibility of protein -based drugs. The large molecular size hinders the possibility to detect, for example, repla***ent or chemical modification of a single amino acid residue or a change in a single glycosylation site. These alterations of the biomolecule structure, however, may lead to subtle changes of the molecule conformation resulting in significant changes in the pharmacological properties of the product.

Additionally, *the wrong choice of manufacturing conditions or formulation may lead to improperly folded polypeptide chains which are biologically inactive. Hence, further methodologies capable of analysis of the protein conformation are needed.*

Currently, the analysis of biopharmaceuticals relies heavily on the use of sophisticated methods for the demonstration of the structural identity, homogeneity and purity of the products. These methods include amino acid and carbohydrate analysis, N- and C-terminal sequence analysis, spectroscopic (UV, CD, ORD) analysis, peptide mapping, electrophoresis, chromatographic purity profile methods, potency/activity assays, etc. It must be emphasized that no one method is considered to be sufficient in itself, and that multiple methods are necessary to completely characterize and/or control such products.

For example, amino acid analysis for proteins with molecular weights above about 16 kilodaltons is known to be of very limited value. While useful for identification of the target protein , N-terminal and C-terminal sequencing only partially characterize the protein . Analysis of the primary structure, however, is insufficient to assure the biological potency of a protein , particularly since the potency depends on the protein conformation.

The conformation of proteins is usually analyzed by optical spectroscopy, such as UV spectroscopy, fluorescence spectroscopy, optical rotary dispersion, or circular dichroism. These methods are generally not sensitive enough to detect the subtle conformational changes caused by small alterations in the protein structure, especially if these changes do not affect side-chain chromophores from tryptophan, phenylalanine, tyrosine, and cysteine residues within the protein . Furthermore, these methods as well as others, such as electrophoresis, isoelectric focusing, differential scanning calorimetry, light scattering, ultracentrifugation, gel filtration, and immunological assays, only provide information about a particular structural or functional feature of a protein .

Chromatography is currently the most widely used analytical method for determining the purity of small organic drugs. Four modes of High-Performance Liquid Chromatography (HPLC) currently used for protein analysis are size-exclusion, ion-exchange, reversed-phase, and hydrophobic interaction chromatography. All these HPLC methods, though commonly employed to monitor the purity of biopharmaceuticals, are usually incapable of resolving proteins that differ by one or two residues or detecting other small changes in the macromolecular structure.

Hence, while chromatography is sufficient for determining whether a small organic drug is functional, the evaluation of a biopharmaceutical requires measurements of biological activity. Many of these measurements are the animal-based assays, particularly when the mechanism of action of the biopharmaceutical is not well defined. These assays are generally imprecise (with variability often 30% to 100%), time-consuming, and costly, and are not rugged. Cell culture assays can be used when the protein -based drug produces a measurable response in a cell-based system. The variability of these assays is much lower, often in the range of 10% to 30% or better (e.g., in vitro clot lysis assay has a variability of about 5%).

Physicochemical tests are much faster, more precise, and more reliable than biological assays. A physicochemical test providing information related to the biological potency of a protein -based drug would improve the control of the safety and efficacy of the drug.

Such a test should meet the following requirements: (1) it should provide information quantitatively related to the biological potency of a biopharmaceutical, (2) it should be capable of detecting minor changes in the structure of large macromolecules, (3) it should be especially sensitive to the structural changes affecting the efficacy of a biomacromolecule, (4) it should be sensitive to the presence of impurities in the product in quantities as small as 0.1 to 0.01 wt. %, (5) it should be simple, precise, and rugged, and (6) it should be time-, labor-, and cost-effective so as not to increase the overall cost of the product. Even if only some of these requirements were met, the test would improve the possibilities for assuring the safety and efficacy of biopharmaceuticals, such as recombinant human growth hormone (rhGH).

----------


## Blackbird55

If the Chinese Gh is fake why do my nails and hair grow 
Faster if those sneaky chinese have come up with a way to mimick 
Those sides they can have my money out of principle for being so 
Smart. All products are made cheaper in china 
Simple economics.

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## ironbeck

Great post!

----------


## z06vett

Can any body tell me about Eruohormones Somatropin! has anybody tried this product???

----------


## lovbyts

> Probably a long shot, but was curious if anyone might know about this. I currently live in China, and I am pretty good friends with a doctor here. We got into the discussion of HGH, and he said that if I was interested he could get me the real stuff. He claimed that the quality of Chinese HGH, even real was incredibly low. For example you can go to a pharmacy here and they sell it over the counter, you need a doctor's note, but still. He said that if I actually wanted the real stuff he would need to order it from Hong Kong. He said that the pharmacy companies there have the real stuff and him being a licensed doctor he is allowed to order stuff from Hong Kong pharmacies. I have no idea how to actually check to see if it's really from HK, if it's really HGH, and if he even knows what he's talking about.
> 
> Anyone have any idea about HK HGH? Also as a heads up just thought I'd mention that this guy doesn't trust Chinese HGH in the least bit. Also this is not an offer, as I could not ask the doctor to sell it for anyone else.




If it were me I would trust the doctor because if he was trying to scam you wouldn't he just let you get the Chinese HGH?

----------


## DanB

.....

----------


## Razor

I would only trust anasome directly from the lab and verification through the serial numbers

----------


## Hephens

I just got my jintropins "greentops" from china i can vouch that my hgh is real. On 10iu/day, its been 1 week in and i am noticing carpel tunnel, my hands are swollen and is tight to clench my fists. I feel soo sleepy during the day always gotta take quick naps and my energy levels have gone up. My well being has dramatically improved, i'm feeling more uplifted and also fat loss already after 1 week!!! But thats because i am on 10iu/day and getting them at a good price. Iv only had Hgh from china, you just have to find a trusted source and when you do, It can end up being cheap. Unlike buying from third parties who bump up the prices and or worse selling fakes.

----------


## Razor

> I just got my jintropins "greentops" from china i can vouch that my hgh is real. On 10iu/day, its been 1 week in and i am noticing carpel tunnel, my hands are swollen and is tight to clench my fists. I feel soo sleepy during the day always gotta take quick naps and my energy levels have gone up. My well being has dramatically improved, i'm feeling more uplifted and also fat loss already after 1 week!!! But thats because i am on 10iu/day and getting them at a good price. Iv only had Hgh from china, you just have to find a trusted source and when you do, It can end up being cheap. Unlike buying from third parties who bump up the prices and or worse selling fakes.


Man 10iu has me wired. 5-8iu makes me tired
At 10 my joints hurt at night..I'm gonna have to work back up to 10iu slowly

----------


## Firefighter33

I think that this is the best post about GH that I ever read in the net.
Remember that China has low prices because thay have a cheapest manpower in the world, and they are the major API's producers with India.
In South America we are almost slaves from China's sources, because the commercial grade GH it's very expensive.
Regards
FF

----------


## ybica

Hi, 
I was looking to buy jintropin. I came across the website which directed me to other website to order. They gave 3 options buy minimum of 5 kits of jintropin (10 iu/ vial) or 5 kits of Hypertropin (12 iu/vial) or IGF-1. I selected Hypertropin because was told it is same as jintropin. I sent money via western union, and received green vials packed into boxes of Densum (hair growth serum). When I complained I was told it was the only way for the vials not to be seized by customs. See pictures below. I spent a lot of money on this stuff, and really medically need the real product, please advise. I wish I came across this thread before I ordered. I guess I was to desperate. Can you tell me where I can test it for purity, it was mentioned that some sent their samples to University lab (I would like to know where to send). What do you think?
Thank you,

----------


## DanB

Sorry bro you got scammed, they arent legit resellers because for 1 the authorised sellers dont operate via website, the process you went through is exactly how they do not operate, there no miniimum, no western union, they wont ship to USA, they dont sell hypertropin, there loose powder in your vial, looks like far too much powder

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## Sgt. Hartman

Sorry man but those are generic green tops and I highly doubt it's real GH.

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## gixxerboy1

yep you got screwed. Sorry

----------


## ybica

Hi guys, 
Thank you for the feedback.
I complained to the seller that he sold me fake HGH. Seller then replied with the story how they split from Gensci in 2007 and making Hypertropin now independently. He also offered to pay for the lab to test it : “we encourage you to find an independent lab of your choice, which is capable of testing for real 191 amino acid sequence somatropin (HGH) and have a sample of our product tested. We will pay for the testing if we can get a copy of the lab result paper so we can publish it as reference for other people who ask for such proof of quality”
I kind of interested to see what they sold me, do you know any good analytical labs that can perform testing?
Thank you

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## gixxerboy1

Because your not going to find a lab to test it and the cost to test if its bio available is not something anyone will pay for.

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## GirlyGymRat

is it a rumor there is only one location that makes gh in china????

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## DanB

Jintropin and Ansomone are only 2 that I know of, but neither will sell to USA, mainly Hong Kong and Eastern Europe, there prob more fake then legit too, especially with the Jins

Jintropin is registered in Hong Kong, Ukraine and Russia and sold in pharmacys

Ansomone is used in China, hospitals, pharmacy etc, not 100% sure if it is registered anywhere else though

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## Fit N Fun

It was me that sent my HGH away to a lab to have it tested.

If you Google SDS-PAGE analysis and MALDI-TOF analysis, you should find places in your country that will perform the analysis you require.

I was really pleasantly surprised when my Lab results came back, it gave me the confidence to continue.

Compared to the cost of the HGH, the testing was minimal and well worth it for the peace of mind.

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## ironbeck

I would like to sy I know very little about HGH....But it seems to me...IMO that the so called side effects are easily mimiced....and that with out a RX or a pro BB source its probably not real. I was one of those guys who had such a HG spike when I was 16, I looked like I was 30...full beard(thick) 16 arms benching 250 natural..........I bought the beer lol......MY point is I never remember tingling anywhere......just growing pains that would keep me up in horrific pain some nights. I don't remember bloating, tingling and some of the other so called side effects? Good clean HGH should just make you feel amazing in short....not superman in size or strenghth...unless abused.........but an over all clean sense of well being!!

----------


## gixxerboy1

> It was me that sent my HGH away to a lab to have it tested.
> 
> If you Google SDS-PAGE analysis and MALDI-TOF analysis, you should find places in your country that will perform the analysis you require.
> 
> I was really pleasantly surprised when my Lab results came back, it gave me the confidence to continue.
> 
> Compared to the cost of the HGH, the testing was minimal and well worth it for the peace of mind.


and your test doesnt tell you if its bio available. Thats the important part and the hardest part for them to make.

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## Fit N Fun

Agreed, the SDS-PAGE analysis and MALDI-TOF analysis does not tell you if the HGH is active, it only confirms if what you have is pure.

The follow up blood spot test for IGF-1 told me I had a values of 424 ng/ml which would be good for a 16 year old and I am 57 years old, so agree that you need an IGF-1 test on top of the mass spectrometer test to finally resolve whether you have a product that delivers.

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## skinnykenney

Ok then if you want me to start using pharm hgh so bad let me know where I can get it and the cost via pm and I will see the difference first hand! "Use pharm grade, use pharm grade" is not as easy as you make it sound! Its hard to finduseQUOTE=marcus300;5668671]Don't be misdirected by 2 members who have never used pharm grade and have only been using generics for 2 yrs. How can any of these give any kind of feedback except on the products they have been using. As well you know you and many other bodybuilders were fooled by generics for many years so reading into their excuses or beliefs doesn't put any new light on anything, infact they are back in time to be honest because I and many others were shouting and claiming the same thing 10 years ago.

Things have advanced, there are more members/Mods/Vets who have tried pharm grade who can without doubt state that generics have been a waste of time and don't even compare to pharm grade. This is from experience from using generics for yrs and pharm grade. We can get generic/pharm grade hgh tested but we still come up against testing for the hormone to be active, the price for such test comes into the thousands and not hundreds and many of the generics companies know this.

I personally feel you have to go off experience from users who have used many generics and pharm grades and listen to them. I also know that its an impossibility to try and convince the new generic users that they have been wasting their money or buying fake because they simply are blinded by so called results/sides and more so price. I would only use hgh from a licenced lab and I would never use generics again if they were free.[/QUOTE]

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## BigBadWolf

> Ok then if you want me to start using pharm hgh so bad let me know where I can get it and the cost via pm and I will see the difference first hand! "Use pharm grade, use pharm grade" is not as easy as you make it sound! Its hard to finduseQUOTE=marcus300;5668671]Don't be misdirected by 2 members who have never used pharm grade and have only been using generics for 2 yrs. How can any of these give any kind of feedback except on the products they have been using. As well you know you and many other bodybuilders were fooled by generics for many years so reading into their excuses or beliefs doesn't put any new light on anything, infact they are back in time to be honest because I and many others were shouting and claiming the same thing 10 years ago.
> 
> Things have advanced, there are more members/Mods/Vets who have tried pharm grade who can without doubt state that generics have been a waste of time and don't even compare to pharm grade. This is from experience from using generics for yrs and pharm grade. We can get generic/pharm grade hgh tested but we still come up against testing for the hormone to be active, the price for such test comes into the thousands and not hundreds and many of the generics companies know this.
> 
> I personally feel you have to go off experience from users who have used many generics and pharm grades and listen to them. I also know that its an impossibility to try and convince the new generic users that they have been wasting their money or buying fake because they simply are blinded by so called results/sides and more so price. I would only use hgh from a licenced lab and I would never use generics again if they were free.


[/QUOTE]

That's fishing and it's not allowed.

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## Glastokid

May i have your source please mate...ive whittled mine down to two after 2 weeks of searching every day and discarding the ones that i have the slightest dubiousness about.. ive been offered igf1 lr3 at $ 80 10 vials*10 iu and water. would you like the site

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## BigBadWolf

> May i have your source please mate...ive whittled mine down to two after 2 weeks of searching every day and discarding the ones that i have the slightest dubiousness about.. ive been offered igf1 lr3 at $ 80 10 vials*10 iu and water. would you like the site


I'm sure this was suppose to be a pm to someone, but no fishing or prices.

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## jasc

Got some chinese generics from a friend.. testing with a preg test tonight.. c'mon hcg !

I figure I bought "pharm grade" hcg n the chinese faked it with who the fvck knows.. so hopefully they were nice enough to fake hgh blue tops with hcg  :Smilie:

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## BigBadWolf

> Got some chinese generics from a friend.. testing with a preg test tonight.. c'mon hcg !
> 
> I figure I bought "pharm grade" hcg n the chinese faked it with who the fvck knows.. so hopefully they were nice enough to fake hgh blue tops with hcg


Shit!! Lol

----------


## Glastokid

how do i do that wolfman and how do i tell people about a site i want to order but want to know if its been used before

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## BigBadWolf

> how do i do that wolfman and how do i tell people about a site i want to order but want to know if its been used before


With four post you don't.

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## BigBadWolf

> how do i do that wolfman and how do i tell people about a site i want to order but want to know if its been used before


But to answer you question it's probably fake.

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## skinnykenney

That's fishing and it's not allowed.[/QUOTE]
I guess you couldn't tell I was being a smart ass?!
Leave the police work to the mods.

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## ChuckEisenmench

I ordered the same product. Tested for hcg with pregnacy test and it came back negative. Took a shot of 10iu and waited 3 hrs then went to have my hgh blood serum tested, will know if it is elevated in 2-3 days. Will let you know. It is the same test given sports althelets for doping.

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## gixxerboy1

read about the serum test. It doesnt prove it bioavailable.

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## ChuckEisenmench

> read about the serum test. It doesnt prove it bioavailable.


I read the serum test threads and have come to the conclusion that the nfl would not or could not perform those complicated tests on a player to check for performance enhancing substances. They would rely on the blood tests and fine or suspend a player on the assumtion that the elevated test results show doping. There is no way they could afford all that required testing for bioavailability to punish someone. He or she would be a victum of false detection.

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## gixxerboy1

^^^i dont understand what you are saying in regards to NFL. testing. Yes if the levels are raised it shows intent to (cheat or dope) So they will be fined or suspended even if its not actually bio active

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## ChuckEisenmench

> ^^^i dont understand what you are saying in regards to NFL. testing. Yes if the levels are raised it shows intent to (cheat or dope) So they will be fined or suspended even if its not actually bio active


Now I know ALL website sources of hgh (generic or counterfeit) are fake.
All home testing is useless.
Blood tests don't prove anything.
Sources are all suspect.
No UGL can produce HGH.
Chinese HGH is doctored to produce all signs to detect effectiveness.
I can not get a doctor to prescribe effective doses for bodybuilding.
SO how in the hell can you get hgh at a reasonable cost?
HGH I order is not bioavailable! Therefore useless.
I can not get any help from all these experts(vets) as they cannot post any useful information.

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## gixxerboy1

^^^well we dont discuss sources. So i dont know what help you want. There are people and sources of human grade gh. 
gh at a reasonable cost? Depends on what you consider reasonable. And thats why gh isnt for the average guy. Its not cost effective. That is just how gh is.

you seem angry about it. Yes, good sources are hard to find. THats how they stay good and dont get busted. They deal with select people. And dont advertise all over the place. You seem upset that hgh is expensive. So is a lambo. THats why i dont have one. But that is life you cant afford everything. And since people all want GH now. There are people who take advantage of people desperate to find it. They make millions of dollars selling crap over the internet. You cant complain or get your money back. You are asking to be ripped off,

----------


## BigBadWolf

> ^^^well we dont discuss sources. So i dont know what help you want. There are people and sources of human grade gh.
> gh at a reasonable cost? Depends on what you consider reasonable. And thats why gh isnt for the average guy. Its not cost effective. That is just how gh is.
> 
> you seem angry about it. Yes, good sources are hard to find. THats how they stay good and dont get busted. They deal with select people. And dont advertise all over the place. You seem upset that hgh is expensive. So is a lambo. THats why i dont have one. But that is life you cant afford everything. And since people all want GH now. There are people who take advantage of people desperate to find it. They make millions of dollars selling crap over the internet. You cant complain or get your money back. You are asking to be ripped off,


I want a lambo!!!!

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## ChuckEisenmench

Jintropin is a Chinese product, still is. Why would China conterfiet it's own product with identical packageing and vial labels? Would China allow a company in their own country to manufacture a fake item identical to a legitimate item? What IS the tipoff that one Jintropin from China is not real?

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## gixxerboy1

> Jintropin is a Chinese product, still is. Why would China conterfiet it's own product with identical packageing and vial labels? Would China allow a company in their own country to manufacture a fake item identical to a legitimate item? What IS the tipoff that one Jintropin from China is not real?


who says they are making the fake jins in china? And if they are why wouldnt they. China is corrupt as hell first off. They make knock off everything. Its not like they ask permission.

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## Pac Man

> who says they are making the fake jins in china? And if they are why wouldnt they. China is corrupt as hell first off. They make knock off everything. Its not like they ask permission.


Bingo.
Those assholes will do anything for a buck. That being said I've gotten fake jin from china. The packaging was legit, box, instructions, numbers, etc but the vials looked a little weird. The labels overlapped a bit. Tested positive as HCG . 
Why they would do this? Because they can sell vials individually than use the boxes with HCG, sell them to another company that sells to people online.

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## EasyDoesIt

> Bingo.
> Those assholes will do anything for a buck. That being said I've gotten fake jin from china. The packaging was legit, box, instructions, numbers, etc but the vials looked a little weird. The labels overlapped a bit. Tested positive as HCG .
> Why they would do this? Because they can sell vials individually than use the boxes with HCG, sell them to another company that sells to people online.


I know a little about the chinese and there culture. Absolutely they will make a complete line of crap for who they feel are a dumb and barbaric Race. To think that the people making that have a code of honor to America is beyond naive. The profit in making ghrp-6 or hcg in place of Growth is astronomical in the kind of numbers being sold here. I also, had crap Jin, with codes etc. looked great, the more I took the worse I felt and looked. If anyone believes it's great stuff, go ahead and keep supporting there product. Don't try to convince us it's great, convince yourself. I'll never touch it again. I know plenty of guys that just do not get the fact that there's a reason it's cheap. I just say go ahead I'm done explaining.

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## ChuckEisenmench

I have received HGH shipped from China via EMS. So I know it's from China. Why should I waste money on that stuff when I can click on the banner at the top of the forum and order a bottle of growth hormone there?

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## gixxerboy1

> I have received HGH shipped from China via EMS. So I know it's from China. Why should I waste money on that stuff when I can click on the banner at the top of the forum and order a bottle of growth hormone there?


because that is a supplement not gh

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## ChuckEisenmench

Thanks for your expertice. I am going to see my PCP who is pretty cool and ask him for a script. I might not even need HGH, just looking at your avatar gets my hormones elevated.

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## gixxerboy1

^^^never going to happen

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## ChuckEisenmench

I found a scource in Mexico who ships the stuff cool and intact boxes with seals and hologram from the factory. Jintropin 10iu X 10 vials. Shipping in afew days. Got my BW back yesterday. Reference interval (normal) is 0.0-2.9. My result was 58.4. Have you ever done HGH blood serum tests?

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## marcus300

I doubt they are real coming from Mexico.

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## BigBadWolf

> I found a scource in Mexico who ships the stuff cool and intact boxes with seals and hologram from the factory. Jintropin 10iu X 10 vials. Shipping in afew days. Got my BW back yesterday. Reference interval (normal) is 0.0-2.9. My result was 58.4. Have you ever done HGH blood serum tests?


I don't believe there are 10iu vials in the central America market.

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## drazenm

Lord what a confusion over HGH bloody hell its complicated

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## gixxerboy1

> Lord what a confusion over HGH bloody hell its complicated


Not complicated. Any ugl or generic is crap

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## ChuckEisenmench

> Not complicated. Any ugl or generic is crap


Checked sticker, removed serial # cover and went on verivacation site and it is REAL!!!!

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## Rwy

I have done chinese and human grade

generics are a waste of time and money

the difference is night and day

my source hands me all these tests and i have no idea what I am looking at


I took 3 ius of jins like 6 years ago and they were incredible. My diet was poor 50% of the time and it didnt matter.

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## gixxerboy1

> Checked sticker, removed serial # cover and went on verivacation site and it is REAL!!!!


What r you talking about

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## ChuckEisenmench

chinese HGH

----------


## gixxerboy1

> chinese HGH


what chinese? There is legit chinese and fake ugl stuff.

so if you bought generic chinese crap. That a company spent 5 bucks on packaging an a serial number you can check against their website. 
i can make that website in about an hour. and what do you think a sticker cost. people are gullible
all that means its that package the ugl made. it doesnt make it real gh. they just confirmed you bought authentic fakes

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## ChuckEisenmench

Hey, the Chinese make most of the REAL HGH in the world. They can ship anywhere in the world except USA. I went to the REAL companie's website and used the REAL co.'s fake protection procedure and mine passed. You could not make a website anyway. If you know the REAL website for fraud check let me know it. Chinese HGH is cheaper than others as are most of the stuff we buy from them. That's why they sell so much. The effort you put into refusing to accept that NO ONE can get real least costly HGH from China requires some proof. Do you have any? Untill I hear some USEFUL input about checking for fakes from you I have to assume that you do not have any ideas

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## stocky121

Mate gixxer is only trying to look out for people so thay dont get scammed and get bunk shit.
Coming on this board as a new member and trying to discredit a vet dosent put you in good standing

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## gixxerboy1

> Hey, the Chinese make most of the REAL HGH in the world. They can ship anywhere in the world except USA. I went to the REAL companie's website and used the REAL co.'s fake protection procedure and mine passed. You could not make a website anyway. If you know the REAL website for fraud check let me know it. Chinese HGH is cheaper than others as are most of the stuff we buy from them. That's why they sell so much. The effort you put into refusing to accept that NO ONE can get real least costly HGH from China requires some proof. Do you have any? Untill I hear some USEFUL input about checking for fakes from you I have to assume that you do not have any ideas


there are only 2 companies in china licensed to make gh. It takes millions of dollars worth of equipment to make it. If you think some lab is going to spend millions on a ugl lab and not get licensed that nuts.

I have a source in china that sells "GH" with any color top and iu size vial i want. So whats from stopping me from buying those. Creating labels and boxes with a security code. Then a website to check them against? Thats what these people do. and they are making millions scamming people.
As for your everything in china is cheaper, why is the legit chinese gh on par with the rest of the world for the cost of gh? But the ugl gh is pennies on the dollar in comparison.
and im sorry look where jins can ship legally. Its not just the us. They can only ship to a handful of countries and most are in eastern europe. 
So yes there is legit chinese gh. never said there wasnt. But all the ugl chinese stuff isnt.
Thats why i asked you a few times what kind you got? But you still havent answered. You may have purchased a legit company. But if you bought one of the hundreds of brands that just stuck "tropin" on there name and it comes in a shiney box. You got ripped.
And look up legit pharmaceutical companies that make it. Most arent in China

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## ChuckEisenmench

I only buy Gensci. What brand do you buy? How do you it's not counterfeit?

----------


## gixxerboy1

> I only buy Gensci. What brand do you buy? How do you it's not counterfeit?


i use serostim and it comes from a pharmacy.

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## BigBadWolf

Settle down chuck. you got took. It happens. It's no ones fault but your own. Sorry but at least you got some hcg or something.  :Smilie:

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

I have found this website to be most knowledgeable and the people have the answers to my questions. I guess I have not been happy that no one here can tell me or at least steer me to a reliable online site to order real HGH. Has ANYONE out there been satified that what they used was real. I tested for hcg with pregnancy test and it came out negative. I had BW done and HGH levels were elevated. Now the question of bioavailabilty remains. Who has not gotten ripped off. I know there can be no source checks. BUT----I believe HGH can be gotten without going to a pharmacy.

----------


## gixxerboy1

> I have found this website to be most knowledgeable and the people have the answers to my questions. I guess I have not been happy that no one here can tell me or at least steer me to a reliable online site to order real HGH. Has ANYONE out there been satified that what they used was real. I tested for hcg with pregnancy test and it came out negative. I had BW done and HGH levels were elevated. Now the question of bioavailabilty remains. Who has not gotten ripped off. I know there can be no source checks. BUT----I believe HGH can be gotten without going to a pharmacy.


Yes legit gh can be found. As you know we dont discuss sources or sites. So I dont know why you are upset. And alot of sources wamt to stay private and low key. And yes over been satisfied with gh before. But I also purchase wisely

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## EasyDoesIt

> Mate gixxer is only trying to look out for people so thay dont get scammed and get bunk shit.
> Coming on this board as a new member and trying to discredit a vet dosent put you in good standing


I agree!

----------


## DanB

> I have found this website to be most knowledgeable and the people have the answers to my questions. I guess I have not been happy that no one here can tell me or at least steer me to a reliable online site to order real HGH. Has ANYONE out there been satified that what they used was real. I tested for hcg with pregnancy test and it came out negative. I had BW done and HGH levels were elevated. Now the question of bioavailabilty remains. Who has not gotten ripped off. I know there can be no source checks. BUT----I believe HGH can be gotten without going to a pharmacy.


seriously do you want me to set up a site, make it look legit then pm you the addy and recommend it, it will take my man a couple hr

well thats what your asking to happen

and by the way legit pharms dont sell via webiste, they all scams with similar domain names

----------


## gixxerboy1

> seriously do you want me to set up a site, make it look legit then pm you the addy and recommend it, it will take my man a couple hr
> 
> well thats what your asking to happen
> 
> *and by the way legit pharms dont sell via webiste*, they all scams with similar domain names


I dont know why people dont get that. What other drugs can you go to a pharmaceutical company site and order. I wish that was true. Gh would be probably the last thing i order  :Smilie:

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## DanB

> *I dont know why people dont get that*. What other drugs can you go to a pharmaceutical company site and order. I wish that was true. Gh would be probably the last thing i order


The world is naive, google jintropin, the site says it offical and has pics of people in white coats and loads of big words so it must be legit haha, oh look it says buy now, along with a range of products that gensci dosnt even make, oh well they said they legit and the internet wouldnt lie to me................

----------


## gixxerboy1

> The world is naive, google jintropin, the site says it offical and has pics of people in white coats and loads of big words so it must be legit haha, oh look it says buy now, along with a range of products that gensci dosnt even make, oh well they said they legit and the internet wouldnt lie to me................


but, but the guy in the coat had a beaker in his hand. 
There are a million "sites" for jins. Even when you could order jins easily it wasnt threw a website.

----------


## DanB

> but, but the guy in the coat had a beaker in his hand. 
> There are a million "sites" for jins. Even when you could order jins easily it wasnt threw a website.


hey my site is legit they even have a pic of a lab report, they have pharm tren and hcg pills too, I get a discount for return customer so send me your cash we split an order  :Wink: 

I wasnt around when jins first came on scene but I doubt any legit pharm no matter what country they based in can openly advertise to sell something illegal unless of course it legal in that country and then ship to legal countrys only but even then it gets a grey area and closer to what happened to gensci and ruined the jins for you, even the paki's cant get away with that one, and they do virtually everything up to that point, you prob know yourself.........

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

I am curious how someone with all your knowhow would not buy generic HGH. The brand names have markups that are very high. Brand names are always more expensive due to the years of r&d and testing and regs. When you go to your pharmacy be sure to not get any generic drug prescriped by your Dr. , instead insist on brand names only. I always get the generic because of the much lower price of a generic. They only have to use the production methods already developed by big co.s that have spent millions on development.

----------


## gixxerboy1

> I am curious how someone with all your knowhow would not buy generic HGH. The brand names have markups that are very high. Brand names are always more expensive due to the years of r&d and testing and regs. When you go to your pharmacy be sure to not get any generic drug prescriped by your Dr. , instead insist on brand names only. I always get the generic because of the much lower price of a generic. They only have to use the production methods already developed by big co.s that have spent millions on development.


your comparing apples and oranges. 
The generics you get from a pharmacy are still licensed pharmaceutical company. The patent just rand out on the drug so other companies are a loud to make it.
The so called generic gh isnt made my a pharmaceutical company. Its an ugl. The equipment to produce bio available gh is millions. You can get around buying the proper equipment. Even if you understand how to make it you cant with out it.
Also that is why you see no generic gh in a pharmacy anyplace.

----------


## BigBadWolf

> I am curious how someone with all your knowhow would not buy generic HGH. The brand names have markups that are very high. Brand names are always more expensive due to the years of r&d and testing and regs. When you go to your pharmacy be sure to not get any generic drug prescriped by your Dr. , instead insist on brand names only. I always get the generic because of the much lower price of a generic. They only have to use the production methods already developed by big co.s that have spent millions on development.


Do you have a learning disorder? It's to expensive to make. there are no generics. Buy what you want. no one care if you don't.

----------


## RoadToHuge

What is the process for non boi available hgh? I do not know much but it seems to me that you are saying there is a short cut can be made that makes it cheaper, still show up on a test as HGH but not bioavailable. If people are taking it and getting sides, blood tests with elevated hgh, etc. You are telling me that there is a short cut that is being taken that some how makes it unavailable. I have an understanding on how it is made, and do not unerstand the shortcut they could be making, and if they did the "million dollar" equiptment you are mentioning is still being used. It just does not all compute, but I am sure you have a clear understanding so please tell me what I am missing. I do not doubt that generic hgh has less actual hgh and the method may be much cruder, but you bio availablity arguement as well as you saying that its something other than hgh, but it still shows up on a blood test as hgh is confusing to me. TIA

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

Here's what you're asking for - copied from an old thread I made a while back.


*** GH Testing ***
There's always a lot of talk on here about people wanting to get their GH tested and recently another board has posted results of several generic GH brands that they paid to have tested at a licensed US facility. 

The problem with giving these tests any credibility is that there currently isn't a proper method of testing a recombinant protein based drug for "biological activity". In other words it could test to be pure 191aa GH and have absolutely none of the desired effect when administered. This article is written by Boris Y. Zaslavsky, Department of Physiology and Biophysics, Cornell University Medical College. 




_Recombinant DNA (rDNA) technology has led to the development of new protein-based drugs that are gaining worldwide regulatory approval. Human growth hormone , human insulin , β- and γ-interferons, and erythropoietin are just a few examples of approved rDNA-derived biopharmaceuticals.

The biological effects, purity, and potency of a drug is governed by the chemical structure of the drug for both traditional drugs and biopharmaceuticals. Standard analytical methodologies used for structural analysis of conventional drugs are, however, inadequate for complete characterization of protein-based products.

Two main reasons for this inadequacy are the large molecular size and conformational flexibility of protein-based drugs. The large molecular size hinders the possibility to detect, for example, repla***ent or chemical modification of a single amino acid residue or a change in a single glycosylation site. These alterations of the biomolecule structure, however, may lead to subtle changes of the molecule conformation resulting in significant changes in the pharmacological properties of the product.

Additionally, the wrong choice of manufacturing conditions or formulation may lead to improperly folded polypeptide chains which are biologically inactive. Hence, further methodologies capable of analysis of the protein conformation are needed.

Currently, the analysis of biopharmaceuticals relies heavily on the use of sophisticated methods for the demonstration of the structural identity, homogeneity and purity of the products. These methods include amino acid and carbohydrate analysis, N- and C-terminal sequence analysis, spectroscopic (UV, CD, ORD) analysis, peptide mapping, electrophoresis, chromatographic purity profile methods, potency/activity assays, etc. It must be emphasized that no one method is considered to be sufficient in itself, and that multiple methods are necessary to completely characterize and/or control such products.

For example, amino acid analysis for proteins with molecular weights above about 16 kilodaltons is known to be of very limited value. While useful for identification of the target protein, N-terminal and C-terminal sequencing only partially characterize the protein. Analysis of the primary structure, however, is insufficient to assure the biological potency of a protein, particularly since the potency depends on the protein conformation.

The conformation of proteins is usually analyzed by optical spectroscopy, such as UV spectroscopy, fluorescence spectroscopy, optical rotary dispersion, or circular dichroism. These methods are generally not sensitive enough to detect the subtle conformational changes caused by small alterations in the protein structure, especially if these changes do not affect side-chain chromophores from tryptophan, phenylalanine, tyrosine, and cysteine residues within the protein. Furthermore, these methods as well as others, such as electrophoresis, isoelectric focusing, differential scanning calorimetry, light scattering, ultracentrifugation, gel filtration, and immunological assays, only provide information about a particular structural or functional feature of a protein.

Chromatography is currently the most widely used analytical method for determining the purity of small organic drugs. Four modes of High-Performance Liquid Chromatography (HPLC) currently used for protein analysis are size-exclusion, ion-exchange, reversed-phase, and hydrophobic interaction chromatography. All these HPLC methods, though commonly employed to monitor the purity of biopharmaceuticals, are usually incapable of resolving proteins that differ by one or two residues or detecting other small changes in the macromolecular structure.

Hence, while chromatography is sufficient for determining whether a small organic drug is functional, the evaluation of a biopharmaceutical requires measurements of biological activity. Many of these measurements are the animal-based assays, particularly when the mechanism of action of the biopharmaceutical is not well defined. These assays are generally imprecise (with variability often 30% to 100%), time-consuming, and costly, and are not rugged. Cell culture assays can be used when the protein-based drug produces a measurable response in a cell-based system. The variability of these assays is much lower, often in the range of 10% to 30% or better (e.g., in vitro clot lysis assay has a variability of about 5%).

Physicochemical tests are much faster, more precise, and more reliable than biological assays. A physicochemical test providing information related to the biological potency of a protein-based drug would improve the control of the safety and efficacy of the drug.

Such a test should meet the following requirements: (1) it should provide information quantitatively related to the biological potency of a biopharmaceutical, (2) it should be capable of detecting minor changes in the structure of large macromolecules, (3) it should be especially sensitive to the structural changes affecting the efficacy of a biomacromolecule, (4) it should be sensitive to the presence of impurities in the product in quantities as small as 0.1 to 0.01 wt. %, (5) it should be simple, precise, and rugged, and (6) it should be time-, labor-, and cost-effective so as not to increase the overall cost of the product. Even if only some of these requirements were met, the test would improve the possibilities for assuring the safety and efficacy of biopharmaceuticals, such as recombinant human growth hormone (rhGH).
_




And this is a post from Marcus' "associate" stating basically the same thing.

I do know someone who I am in contact with and in one of his first emails to me he describes the process of testing this horomone. I will copy the email so you get more of an understanding. My contact has many titles, he is a Professor of research, Scientific manager, he is head of the Biopharmaceutical Bioprocessing technology centre, Director of Mass spectrometry in clinical pharmacology who provide protein analysis services to commercial and academic clients and also a Doctor.



_Hi Marcus, 


there are some things that we can do, some things that we could do, but that would possibly be too expensive (not worth it) and other things that we cannot do. 


Please let me start with the last section:


We absolutely cannot test any substances for their suitability for any purpose, particularly not for their use in a diagnostic, therapeutic and/or recreational purpose, when this invloves administering to a living being (including humans). 


Measuring the concentration of the growth hormones is something that is actually not as easy as it might seem. The concentration of the hormone can have two different meanings, it could be the chemical concentration of a compound (this is something that we can measure), it could also be the biological activity of this compound (this would be different, if a certain proportion of this chemical would be biologically inactive, which could happen for a variety of reasons). The latter (measuring the biological activity) is something we cannot do. We can measure the chemical concentration of human growth hormone (or any other growth hormone ), but that would involve the chemical synthesis of an internal standard, followed by a fairly complicated experiment, in which we use chemical scissors (en enzyme called trypsin) to chop the protein into pieces, then we analyse these pieces using a combination of high performance liquid chromatography and mass spectrometry, followed by a computer-intensive analysis of the data. The result of this experiment would be the concentration either in units of mol/l or in units of mg/l (the two are interconvertible). I do not know how the IU (stands for International Units) for growth hormone are defined - this might be a functional (biological) unit (which we cannot measure). 


Human growth hormone is a chain of 191 different amino acids. One thing we can do is measure the total molecular weight of the protein in a sample to see, if it corresponds to the molecular weight that would be predicted for a protein containing these 191 amino acids. This experiment detects, if one amino acid was missing or another one was added, in some cases (but not in all cases) even, if an amino acid was replaced with a different one. Another outcome of this experiment would be to see, if other, similar proteins are present in the same sample. 


In a different experiment we can check, if a protein in a particular sample is really growth hormone or if it is possibly something completely different, for example egg white protein or milk protein . 


For your information, I attach two links to articles about human growth hormone :



Best Wishes

_

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

> Do you have a learning disorder? It's to expensive to make. there are no generics. Buy what you want. no one care if you don't.


I went online using the internet and researched Chinese Pharmacutical manufacturers. There I found the list contained co.s making many chemicals that are not available to any UGL. They have the money and equipment to produce any FDA (and Chinese Govt. agencys) certified pharmacutical
compound. I contacted the factory's manager of one of these and I received confirmation through his quality control manager that at a reasonable price they have a source of HGH. The number of Chinese Pharm. co.s that are legitimate sources of medical formulas and medicinal products is legion.
On another tact, how about IGF-1 and the other peptides? Are they also generic fakes? And of what use are HGH supplements? The co I contacted had 100's of employees. If bioavailibilty cannot be tested (as per the above Dr.s text, how can the name brands be proven effective?
"We absolutely cannot test any substance for their suitability for any purpose, particularly not for their use in a diagnostic, therapeutic and or recreational purpose when this involves administering to a human being."

----------


## gixxerboy1

> I went online using the internet and researched Chinese Pharmacutical manufacturers. There I found the list contained co.s making many chemicals that are not available to any UGL. They have the money and equipment to produce any FDA (and Chinese Govt. agencys) certified pharmacutical
> compound. I contacted the factory's manager of one of these and I received confirmation through his quality control manager that at a reasonable price they have a source of HGH. The number of Chinese Pharm. co.s that are legitimate sources of medical formulas and medicinal products is legion.
> On another tact, how about IGF-1 and the other peptides? Are they also generic fakes? And of what use are HGH supplements? The co I contacted had 100's of employees. If bioavailibilty cannot be tested (as per the above Dr.s text, how can the name brands be proven effective?
> "We absolutely cannot test any substance for their suitability for any purpose, particularly not for their use in a diagnostic, therapeutic and or recreational purpose when this involves administering to a human being."


you seriously are a sucker. Yea a pharmaceutical company has a "source" for you for gh. Go for it. I'm sure your intesinve research is much more then the guys who have been doing this for 10+ years, went down the same road you are and tried stuff. But im sure your different. You will get real gh.

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

With a blood serum HGH test you know that the stuff is not an AI, HCG , or any other pharmacutical.
The bioavailibility issue is a question that is answered by the fact that the BW shows a definate pharmacutical product that requires the same expensive equipment to produce as real HGH. Now the sides are felt by me that also help determine the effectiveness.

----------


## gixxerboy1

> With a blood serum HGH test you know that the stuff is not an AI, HCG , or any other pharmacutical.
> The bioavailibility issue is a question that is answered by the fact that the BW shows a definate pharmacutical product that requires the same expensive equipment to produce as real HGH. Now the sides are felt by me that also help determine the effectiveness.


how do you know its not a peptide?
No offense but people who have been in the game alot longer have better contacts then you all know its garbage.Use what you want. It your money you are throwing away
i love how sides tell you its real. I use straight from the pharm 5iu ed and dont get sides besides some water retention.

----------


## Times Roman

> how do you know its not a peptide?
> No offense but people who have been in the game alot longer have better contacts then you all know its garbage.Use what you want. It your money you are throwing away
> i love how sides tell you its real. I use straight from the pharm 5iu ed and dont get sides besides some water retention.


this is why i've stayed away from HGH so far. Unless you know someone that can refer you to a legit HGH supplier, chances of buying bogus are almost assured

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

Well I guess I'll use up the crap I got and see if 5iu/day does anything on the scale or in the gym. I should see some results hopefully after a few months.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> Well I guess I'll use up *the CRAP I got* and see if 5iu/day does anything on the scale or in the gym. I should see some results hopefully after a few months.


^^^Smartest thing I've seen you post yet.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> ^^^Smartest thing I've seen you post yet.


Hopefully not damaging Crap!

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> Hopefully not damaging Crap!


Exactly. Some of us have used the chinese generics and it's fvcked us up........

----------


## BigBadWolf

> Well I guess I'll use up the crap I got and see if 5iu/day does anything on the scale or in the gym. I should see some results hopefully after a few months.


There is no way I would use something I had no idea what it was for a few months. That's foolish.

----------


## Times Roman

> Well I guess I'll use up the crap I got and see if 5iu/day does anything on the scale or in the gym. I should see some results hopefully after a few months.


I've talked to blokes that have been on as low as 1iu pharma grade, and said they could really tell the difference. 

I'd suggest that if you do NOT know what you are injecting into YOUR body, it might not be a good idea to inject it in the first place?

just my .02 mate

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> I've talked to blokes that have been on as low as 1iu pharma grade, and said they could really tell the difference.
> 
> I'd suggest that if you do NOT know what you are injecting into YOUR body, it might not be a good idea to inject it in the first place?
> 
> just my .02 mate


The crap Jin I had screwed with my blood sugar, made me retain water terribly and whatever else I didn't know about. Using 2iu pharmacy grade is an amazing difference. When you use pharmacy grade you will know its working. The Jin has matching codes and all the right appearance, but was junk. Prob as stated by someone else I'd say it's worth setting up sites specially designed for junk that's made for U.S. for multi million dollar business. Or maybe made here, who knows.

----------


## gixxerboy1

^^^ gh will mess with your blood sugar. gh causes insulin resistance

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> ^^^ gh will mess with your blood sugar. gh causes insulin resistance


This was more severe than anything in past. Within 20 minutes of injecting, severe sweats, shaking and hungry even tho I just ate.

----------


## gixxerboy1

> This was more severe than anything in past. Within 20 minutes of injecting, severe sweats, shaking and hungry even tho I just ate.


thats cause you had grhp 6, not gh. The symptom you mentioned are not insulin resistance

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> thats cause you had grhp 6, not gh. The symptom you mentioned are not insulin resistance


Yup, I read it in the early stages of this thread. That's when everything added up to me as what the he... Is this shit.

----------


## DanB

> *thats cause you had grhp 6*, not gh. The symptom you mentioned are not insulin resistance


damn that not even a good fake lol, most generics moved on from peps a long time ago as you know yourself...........

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

> The crap Jin I had screwed with my blood sugar, made me retain water terribly and whatever else I didn't know about. Using 2iu pharmacy grade is an amazing difference. When you use pharmacy grade you will know its working. The Jin has matching codes and all the right appearance, but was junk. Prob as stated by someone else I'd say it's worth setting up sites specially designed for junk that's made for U.S. for multi million dollar business. Or maybe made here, who knows.


When you use pharmacy grade how do you know (in more detail) it's working? I am going to just wait and discontinue using the HGH? that I have.

----------


## DanB

You see it in mirror, I get an overall improved sense of well being for lack of a better way to put it into words, but others who use should understasnd me, people report better sleep although my sleep pattern is terrible due to lifestyle, 

If its legit pharm then it is working, there is no 2 ways about it

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> When you use pharmacy grade how do you know (in more detail) it's working? I am going to just wait and discontinue using the HGH? that I have.


For sure you see it in the mirror. Harder, more density in the muscle. Very forgiving when diet is not great, still stay lean and more defined. Hair grows Fast, skin looks better. The skin is obviously more noticeable the older you are. My work schedule and hours are terrible so I have not been able to benefit from the better rest. It continues to work better through continued use. I use only two units for anti aging purposes so gaining size is not there and not interested in getting big. When kicked up to 4iu's as I have done in the past the muscle density and vascularity increase is pretty amazing. Anyway that's my experience with it.

----------


## Blergs

> May i have your source please mate...ive whittled mine down to two after 2 weeks of searching every day and discarding the ones that i have the slightest dubiousness about.. ive been offered igf1 lr3 at $ 80 10 vials*10 iu and water. would you like the site


Dude.... ar-r has IGF1 and its top quality. 
Banner uptop.

----------


## swithuk

ive been on ansomone for a week now . (im sure its real as direct from manufacturer )
im using 4i.u daily in the evening.

interest to know what sides i will get and when they will start ?
nothing yet . although i feel abit more positive . i think and a bit more energy .... but this could be placebo 

also interested to understand *what the difference is* between a genuine source of pharma grade g.h like ansomone from china 
or from a big pharma co. in the states like lilly or pfizer prescribed ? 
isnt real g.h real g.h no matter where its from ?

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

Lots of people don't get sides from 4iu, I don't really get any til i go over 5iu so maybe you're just lucky.

Yeah GH is real GH now matter who's company's name is on the vial. Imo real GH only comes from facilities that are licensed to produce GH, which Anke Bio is......

----------


## gymsoldier

> Lots of people don't get sides from 4iu, I don't really get any til i go over 5iu so maybe you're just lucky.
> 
> Yeah GH is real GH now matter who's company's name is on the vial. Imo real GH only comes from facilities that are licensed to produce GH, which Anke Bio is......


PM sent.

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## ChuckEisenmench

I must have gotten lucky with the HGH I have because my hands feel like I have tight gloves on and energy and wellbeing is improved. Since this is the first time I have tried it after 30 years of going to gyms in DE, NJ and Fla. I must have received a real deal. With 45% of HGH being fake I guess there is a chance that you can get generic HGH from chinese pharms which is authentic. After a few more weeks I'll reorder and hope they still send me the same stuff. I'm a VET too! Have done several cycles of test bought through the internet and it definately was effective. Been ordering from the same site for 25 yrs. NO UGL lab crap.

----------


## Angel of death

Anke bio won't ship to the US tho right?

----------


## DanB

> I must have gotten lucky with the HGH I have because my hands feel like I have tight gloves on and energy and wellbeing is improved. Since this is the first time I have tried it after 30 years of going to gyms in DE, NJ and Fla. I must have received a real deal. With 45% of HGH being fake I guess there is a chance that you can get generic HGH from chinese pharms which is authentic. After a few more weeks I'll reorder and hope they still send me the same stuff. I'm a VET too! Have done several cycles of test bought through the internet and it definately was effective. Been ordering from the same site for 25 yrs. NO UGL lab crap.


ok im confused

how do you know you have hgh and not something that mimics the sides without bloodwork

no site has operated for 25yrs that Im aware of so i call bullshit on that

where do you get 45% from? you just picked a number out of the sky so again i call bullshit and im sure staff will agree that the real figure is far higher

do you sell gh or rep for a source

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## DanB

> Anke bio won't ship to the US tho right?


correct

----------


## gixxerboy1

> ok im confused
> 
> how do you know you have hgh and not something that mimics the sides without bloodwork
> 
> no site has operated for 25yrs that Im aware of so i call bullshit on that
> 
> where do you get 45% from? you just picked a number out of the sky so again i call bullshit and im sure staff will agree that the real figure is far higher
> 
> do you sell gh or rep for a source


there wasnt even sites 25 years ago

----------


## DanB

> there wasnt even sites 25 years ago


exactly what i was thinking

just waiting for somebody reputable like yourself to confirm it

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> I must have gotten lucky with the HGH I have because my hands feel like I have tight gloves on and energy and wellbeing is improved. Since this is the first time I have tried it after 30 years of going to gyms in DE, NJ and Fla. I must have received a real deal. With 45% of HGH being fake I guess there is a chance that you can get generic HGH from chinese pharms which is authentic. After a few more weeks I'll reorder and hope they still send me the same stuff. I'm a VET too! Have done several cycles of test bought through the internet and it definately was effective. Been ordering from the same site for 25 yrs. NO UGL lab crap.


Haven't you read the posts in this thread? The generic GH business does probably in the hundreds of millions of dollars a year so don't you think they could come up with something that would mimic the sides of GH without having to spend the millions of dollars on the equipment to produce the real thing. 

I've taken generic that gave me CTS and made me retain water but did not elevate my IGF-1 levels at all......

----------


## swithuk

> Anke bio won't ship to the US tho right?


yeah they wont ship to u.s 
im in the u.k

----------


## swithuk

> Lots of people don't get sides from 4iu, I don't really get any til i go over 5iu so maybe you're just lucky.
> 
> Yeah GH is real GH now matter who's company's name is on the vial. Imo real GH only comes from facilities that are licensed to produce GH, which Anke Bio is......


ok understood .thanks for your reply .
its only been a week so im not expecting much yet . ive not used g.h for a few years (since Chinese Olympics ) and ive missed it !

yeah there was no way i was going to use generics this time . i tried going down that road for a couple of months and its just a black hole thats sucks up your time and money ! (blue tops . not the yellows ! but if they have the spiral ..... !!! what a load of bollocks / nightmare !)
im in the u.k so i went with ansomone as they guarantee delivery or they resend - cant argue with that !

in your opinion when do you think i will notice positives or do you think i should up the dosage from 4i.u e.d ?

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## ChuckEisenmench

Ordered steriods in the 80's. Can't give you the source. They did HGH (90's) but not now. Jintropin was mailed then in the 90's and that is not bullshit. Yes there were websites in the 80's. I used test then, dianabol and deca . Ordered online, yes there were online sources in the 80's: period. Before you were even born.Available hgh include Nutropin, Hypertropin,Humatrope, Saizen, Serostim, Zorbtive, Nordtropin, Jintropin, Zomacton, all legit. Plus many other knockoffs that have the rescources to make it. It is not rocket science and can be produced just like the junk peptides that are similar to HGH, but not effective but require millions of dollars worth of equipment which contrary to some people is as difficult to make as the real thing. Anke bio makes 192 amino acid sequence. Ansomone.

----------


## DanB

> Ordered steriods in the 80's. Can't give you the source. They did hgh but not now. Jintropin was mailed then in the 90's and that is not bullshit. Yes there were websites in the 80's. I used test then, dianabol and deca. Ordered online, yes there were online sources in the 80's: period. Before you were even born.


i still call bullshit im reliably informed by people who have connections (you dont) that what your saying isnt possible

pm me the source i will gladly hold my hands up but i still sure you talking utter shite

prove me wrong or you have 0 credability on this forum

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## swithuk

[QUOTE=ChuckEisenmench;6118998]Ordered steriods in the 80's. Can't give you the source. They did HGH (90's) but not now. Jintropin was mailed then in the 90's and that is not bullshit. Yes there were websites in the 80's. I used test then, dianabol and deca . Ordered online, yes there were online sources in the 80's: period. Before you were even born.Available hgh include Nutropin, Hypertropin,Humatrope, Saizen, Serostim, Zorbtive, Nordtropin, Jintropin, Zomacton, all legit. Plus many other knockoffs that have the rescources to make it. It is not rocket science and can be produced just like the junk peptides that are similar to HGH, but not effective but require millions of dollars worth of equipment which contrary to some people is as difficult to make as the real thing. Anke bio makes 192 amino acid sequence. Ansomone.[/QUOT

with respect .thats not true of ansomone . that was just a rumour put about . there are lab results posted in this forum that show its 191 ! theres a lot of credible / calibre guys on here that use it and to suggest that theyd be using junk is abit naive / disingenuous dont you think mate !?

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## gixxerboy1

ansomone is 191.

and until 1995 the internet was only for commercial use, governments, education and research There wasnt website for shopping

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## Sgt. Hartman

> Anke bio makes 192 amino acid sequence. Ansomone.


Incorrect, Ansomone is 191aa. The whole 192aa rumor is based off of one lab report from many years ago that supposedly tested it and found it to be 192aa.

----------


## swithuk

( Human Growth Hormone / Somatropin / our own trade name: ANSOMONE) conforming GMP Guideline *approved* by China FDA. Our products are rDNA origin and have been widely used around China and exported to quite a few countries. 

We supply HGH as Finished Form for Injection and Bulk Raw Drug in lyophilized powder.

------QUALITY
Our HGH/ANSOMONE is *qualified* to EP, USP, CP, WHO Standard with high bio-activity and with 191 amino acids.

----------


## swithuk

Here is part of the information provided from the test results.

· The protein concentration was very close to the concentration given by the manufacturer (experimental: 1.7 mg/ml, on the label: 1.6 mg/ml).

· SDS-PAGE analysis indicates that the proteins is very pure

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## DanB

Why cant you disclose the source? Age means nothing I can obtain anything and everything and people here can vouch for.that

You cant name source, cant post bloodwork as far as Im concerned you are a.scammer trying to sell fake hgh

Sources werent online when you.claim

Prove anything I said wrong otherwise stop bringing up my age (irrelevant) to divert attention from simple fact that you full of shit

Several people here can vouch for me so who can vouch for you?

Prove what you claim or shut your mouth it really is that simple and Im waiting

EDIT

This post directed at that clown above who claims his hgh legit yet no proof

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

Back in the old days there were websites that I had to pay to get on to download info. In NJ I had contact with several sources of info reguarding steriods . Sparta was one I remember. You could search for data, and info about bodybuilding. This was before the internet as you now know it. I used US mail to contact people that were listed on these info sites. I'm just working on my 100 posts with this dialog. I am willing to admit that I still need to learn. No hard feelings with your disagreements. You may even be right. I just know from MY experiences that I had Dr.s recommended that would prescribe Dianabol , etc. if you knew who to go to. Online sources for anabolics came later I admit. I'll keep you up to date on my progress until one day I may get to PM or contact you all for more up to date info. 45 days will come and from our posts you will get to know me. I may be a new member on this forum but I have had contact with many bodybuilders who are not some 18-20 year old asking how to do the basics and wanting HGH, steriods, cycles, routines, etc. Been there done that! I did get stuff from gym members and learned by watching and asking them the questions that appear so frequently on these forums. Don't they go to a gym? I don't things have changed that much from what I see in the gym. I had 5 years training (1978-1985) untill I got in good enough shape to push past plateaus. NOW, I am older and am interested in HRT, but in a bodybuilding setting. I still bench 300 and have 19.5 arms, 49" chest. I weigh 235 with a little body fat, getting older you know. Looking to continue the dialog with you guys, seriously!
Chuck Eisenmench

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## gixxerboy1

^^^ id be interest to hear more. You are older then me. but i from nj and philly and pretty much know who runs everything there

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## DanB

> ^^^ id be interest to hear more. You are older then me. but i from nj and philly and pretty much know who runs everything there


First person I thought of when he mentioned NJ

He stung now, I leave you to it.....

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

Well I'm glad you are close. Can't wait to get to know all the ins and outs, people who run things etc from you in the future. Guess all the guys who advised me on HGH were wrong. I now have all the info about HGH and am happy that Chinese HGH is no good and can not be had. OR NOT? My pumps are getting very intense now but strenght has not gone up at all. It's only been a few weeks. Should all that warm and fuzzy feeling of well being begin soon after using HGH or is it a month or two to begin getting benefits? Should I tell my friends to hold off until I can definately reccomend a product? Will you do source checks for anyone or not? No bad sides yet. sleep is OK. Energy seems normal. What is all the smartass comments suposed to do to aid this dialog?

----------


## DanB

That aimed at me yeah 

There is no smartass comment just calling out bullshit when i see it 

You have changed your story in nearly every post and answered none of my questions just avoided them and changed the subject

----------


## BigBadWolf

> correct


How about Canada?

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

They don't ship to anywhere that GH is illegal or where customs is an issue.

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

I guess you could post sources here but I thought you couldn't. I got info from Compudata in NJ and Sparta in Sparta NJ. They would give you Dr.s etc. that would prescribe steriods . That was before HGH was around. I have many friends in bodybuilding locally in gyms in Fla. and DE (closed now) and NJ. That was years ago. Still know people. I guess Chinese HGH (Ansomone) website that says the same jargon as others is genuine. Don't know why you are calling me out about changing the subject. I guess you have not had the experience that I have. I am not bullshitting you. What the hell is false about me getting steriod sources online before 1985. It happened! 
Have done BW and HGH serum was elevated from a normal range of 0-2.9 to 58 with a 10iu injection of HGH. I have already posted the info. Checked product with pregnacy test and came out not pregnant(thank god). Then the question of bioavailability was raised and the tests are almost impossible to give certain answers.
The HGH I have is not HCG ,AI, or rat poison. It maybe peptides, which are for sale here. Although useless like Igf-l3. Growth hormone supplements the same thing. OK big shot now does that answer your questions? The anasomone website says the same things where I ordered. A Chinese Pharm Co. Listed on BIztoBiz. My sources are ancient history. They are gone. That's why I came here after getting an order from the best researched site I could locate. WTF is your problem with that. I need you to work with me. I'm just doing due diligence and getting the best info I can. I found this forum to be that place. You can get anything you want. I don't want to be made to feel a jackass because I ask and question the answers I get. I don't accept every thing on here as gospel. I've read too many posts to know that many here are just plain ignorant. So son that's my story. Feel free to answer as frankly as you want. No offense taken.

----------


## DanB

If I came across as a dick I apologise, it wasnt my intention, even if it seemed like that, Im very skeptical of peoples claims lately due to several recent events (unrelated to you) 

I may be younger then you but trust me when I say I have plenty of experience dealing with sources for various types of contraband, there isnt much that I cant get my hands on (not an offer to anybody so dont pm, just trying to make a point)

I must of missed the labs you posted again I apologise

But my main problem was (I may of addressed it wrong and lacking respect) that I have been reliably informed that online sources werent around when you claim they were

I try help people here, I aint here to just have an arguement, I would go to the pub for that, it would be alot easier and more enjoyable lol

So again I apologise if I was out of line, I hope you wont hold it against me in the future, and I will try facilitate any future querys you may have if you still want my opinion

----------


## marcus300

> ( Human Growth Hormone / Somatropin / our own trade name: ANSOMONE) conforming GMP Guideline *approved* by China FDA. Our products are rDNA origin and have been widely used around China and exported to quite a few countries. 
> 
> We supply HGH as Finished Form for Injection and Bulk Raw Drug in lyophilized powder.
> 
> ------QUALITY
> Our HGH/ANSOMONE is *qualified* to EP, USP, CP, WHO Standard with high bio-activity and with 191 amino acids.


I would stay away from Ansomone at the moment ive had 3 seperate issues relating to their HGH and something is wrong with their production.

----------


## lightweight11

So all kigtropin is fake, what about hyges 200 iu kits?

----------


## swithuk

> I would stay away from Ansomone at the moment ive had 3 seperate issues relating to their HGH and something is wrong with their production.


ok many thanks for info mate

please can you let me know some more details about their hgh and production as ive been buying from them and ive just received two more boxes and i dont have an alternative

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## swithuk

> I would stay away from Ansomone at the moment ive had 3 seperate issues relating to their HGH and something is wrong with their production.


also what should i do with my latest delivery ? are these issues so serious that i shouldnt run them ? 
how can ankebio get things wrong ? i thought they are this massive pharma co. listed on the chinese stock exchange and have all this approval ...?

----------


## marcus300

> also what should i do with my latest delivery ? are these issues so serious that i shouldnt run them ? 
> how can ankebio get things wrong ? i thought they are this massive pharma co. listed on the chinese stock exchange and have all this approval ...?


Anasome have been great they did have issues with sending out fakes about ten years who but they got another licence and they sorted themselves out. But what's made me think twice recently is I've had 3 separate incidents reported to me by serious bodybuilders who know what they are doing and saying. Some reported the powder flake not solid but all of then said they had different sides this time round and held a lot of water and gains are not the same. Some report zero gains some said minor but strange sides. 3 separate incidents reporting the same things tell me something is wrong! Also ankie wouldn't re ship even when photos were taken of the powder flake and reported sides and gains different, she wouldn't re ship even when these people have been buying from her for years. Sounds like they built up a big client base for selling cheap pharm grade now they selling either peptides,fakes or some other chemical they manufacturing for big $$$$$ .

I'm disappointed with ankie and Chinese growth to be honest. All you can do is try it and see for yourself you may have real or maybe half is real who knows but I won't be running it again even though I have over a 1000ius here .

Do what you want, believe what you want but for me ankie is over to many coincidences

----------


## swithuk

> Anasome have been great they did have issues with sending out fakes about ten years who but they got another licence and they sorted themselves out. But what's made me think twice recently is I've had 3 separate incidents reported to me by serious bodybuilders who know what they are doing and saying. Some reported the powder flake not solid but all of then said they had different sides this time round and held a lot of water and gains are not the same. Some report zero gains some said minor but strange sides. 3 separate incidents reporting the same things tell me something is wrong! Also ankie wouldn't re ship even when photos were taken of the powder flake and reported sides and gains different, she wouldn't re ship even when these people have been buying from her for years. Sounds like they built up a big client base for selling cheap pharm grade now they selling either peptides,fakes or some other chemical they manufacturing for big $$$$$ .
> 
> I'm disappointed with ankie and Chinese growth to be honest. All you can do is try it and see for yourself you may have real or maybe half is real who knows but I won't be running it again even though I have over a 1000ius here .
> 
> Do what you want, believe what you want but for me ankie is over to many coincidences


thanks for your reply mate .

thats bad news ! 
ive only just restarted running g.h after a long break .i have to say i havent had any sides and not noticed any positives but i put this down to me not running it for very long 

im shocked that a big pharma company like ankebio would be like this or can be like this !? this forum is the reason i chose to go with ankebio
so what is the alternative ? gensci ?

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## sgt2jay

im leaning towards unless i can get striagt from Pfizer which is unlikely i may just stop as it is turning out the the risk is no linger an option. it seems trust is gone with anything out of China. Ansomone was trhe last shot as far as im concerned.

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## Schmooze

I'm glad I came across this thread before I pulled the trigger. Pisses me off, the Govt. makes it difficult to obtain HGH and AAS yet they allow cigarettes to still be sold.

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## swithuk

yeah it pisses me off as well . it puts me in a difficult position as i dont know what company to go for now . im only interested to run pharma grade . id done alot of research and ankebio was perfect . 

im not interested in running anything from u.g.l 

this is a nightmare !

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## thefamily

....... we can speculate till blue in the face.... When they offer all these rainbow tops at dirt cheap prices..... Thats when u contact them and tell them I'll distribute for yall but first before i buy 100 kits or whatever, send me ONE for legitimacy testing and if g2g.... we got a deal. Watch how they respond= indicator #1. and if they do agree and do send... you set up testing.
.... and there is a guy on here that i been using to test mine for over 2 years... hes g2g FOR SURE.

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## DanB

For what its wroth myaelf amd a few friends do a stubanstial amount of business with ankebio and havent had a single problem so yes mabey they had a bad batch or quality control issues but to cometely rule them out is massive ovekill i.m.o

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## swithuk

> For what its wroth myaelf amd a few friends do a stubanstial amount of business with ankebio and havent had a single problem so yes mabey they had a bad batch or quality control issues but to cometely rule them out is massive ovekill i.m.o


im glad you said that .
im obviously not in the same league as alot of guys here and just buy abit for myself . but i find it hard to believe that a massive pharma company like ankebio that supply hospitals ,make cancer treatment and are listed on the chinese stock exchange would just sell snide gear ? 
im hoping its temporary

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## marcus300

^^ I have also done a lot of business with Anki for close to 8 yrs, infact I am on personaly speaking terms with them but for 3 seperate guys state similar things regarding the quality and results thats good enough for me to stop using them. They have done it before and I am 100% sure they doing it again. You may think you have real, you may half real but without doubt someting has changed with them and thats why I am not foing any more business with them.

The same thing hapened with generics, I spent another 3-4 yrs using them because i thought I had real gh but this time China aren't having anymore of mine money, i'm done with them!!

I have 2 other guys starting their anki gh on Monday, see what comes back

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## sgt2jay

just brain storming here, but were all three friends in the UK? Could there have been maybe a swap during the shipping from Anki to end reciever. not sure how to ask this without offending anyone but any chance of a middle man so to speak in this situation and that is where the bad gh was put into play?

again my intention are not to offend anyone just looking at it from a different angle.

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## swithuk

> ^^ I have also done a lot of business with Anki for close to 8 yrs, infact I am on personaly speaking terms with them but for 3 seperate guys state similar things regarding the quality and results thats good enough for me to stop using them. They have done it before and I am 100% sure they doing it again. You may think you have real, you may half real but without doubt someting has changed with them and thats why I am not foing any more business with them.
> 
> The same thing hapened with generics, I spent another 3-4 yrs using them because i thought I had real gh but this time China aren't having anymore of mine money, i'm done with them!!
> 
> I have 2 other guys starting their anki gh on Monday, see what comes back


your post are the reason ive chose ansomone and your post are the reason i would stop using ansomone 
for sure if a cat does something once it will do it again 

ive only been running it for 20 days .6i.u e.d . i know this is short term .but havent any sides or any positives at all ! apart from feeling more positive . this could be placebo !
but 5 years ago i was runin real jintropin for a good while and felt amazing so its not like i dont know what real g,h feels like ....id get hard ons like crazy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i dont know . but this is really depressing !

i will let you know my progress for what its worth (i got my shipment a couple o days ago )
interested to hear your guys progress

many thanks for your input !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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## swithuk

> just brain storming here, but were all three friends in the UK? Could there have been maybe a swap during the shipping from Anki to end reciever. not sure how to ask this without offending anyone but any chance of a middle man so to speak in this situation and that is where the bad gh was put into play?
> 
> again my intention are not to offend anyone just looking at it from a different angle.


chivalry is not dead - a valid point

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## Razor

I agree with Dan

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## Sgt. Hartman

I've got a substantial amount of ansomone i received several weeks ago. Haven't run any yet but I'll post up how it is soon........

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## Razor

Did you go through all your vials to see if they all have the white pucks at the bottom vs flaky white stuff everywhere?

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## Sgt. Hartman

I haven't looked at every vial but all of them I've looked at so far look like real gh.

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## marcus300

> just brain storming here, but were all three friends in the UK? Could there have been maybe a swap during the shipping from Anki to end reciever. not sure how to ask this without offending anyone but any chance of a middle man so to speak in this situation and that is where the bad gh was put into play?
> 
> again my intention are not to offend anyone just looking at it from a different angle.


No, 2 where from the USA and infact one is a very trusted staff member here, the other guy was from the UK. It's not been swapped or tampered with. 

I've lost faith in them now but I will be starting my new batch on Monday so I'll give feedback but one thing is for sure I won't carry on using them like I did with generics. I spent a small fortune convincing myself they were working but it was either in my head or the aas. I don't mind using what I have but if I get strange sides and I suspect its some chemical what makes me retain water or what ever they put in it I will stop using them immediately.

Trust me guys I didn't want to say what I have about ankie because I have defended them even though they came out of China but u feel I had to give feedback on the problems and issues with what they are sending out recently. Personally I'm not risking anymore money with them even if my batch is ok. Once thus happens with China I'm done, been there before won't happen again wasting money.

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## marcus300

> your post are the reason ive chose ansomone and your post are the reason i would stop using ansomone 
> for sure if a cat does something once it will do it again 
> 
> ive only been running it for 20 days .6i.u e.d . i know this is short term .but havent any sides or any positives at all ! apart from feeling more positive . this could be placebo !
> but 5 years ago i was runin real jintropin for a good while and felt amazing so its not like i dont know what real g,h feels like ....id get hard ons like crazy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> i dont know . but this is really depressing !
> 
> i will let you know my progress for what its worth (i got my shipment a couple o days ago )
> ...


6 ius per day for 20 days straight off and you feel nothing, sorry to say this but it sounds like bunk not even peptide or that shit they put in them, that sounds complete bunk. Normally I get sides within 3 days of using half that amount.

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## ramacher

hmm.... who wants to start a pharma company making gh out of the regulators hands...

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## sgt2jay

marcus - 
Thanks for your input. again my intentions were not to point fingers as i hope you understand just looking at different opiontions thanks for clearing it up. I wont speak for everone herre but you seem to be the go to guy for good solid advice and i am sure many have learned from you knowledge and experience.

To Swithuk -
I agree with Marcus if you have felt nothing after 20 day i would be concerned. I have been using Ansomone for close to a year now and at various dosages. starting out at 2.5 iu i felt all the side and as my body got used to them they subsided. i believe a big indication that your gh is is good is not only the side but just as important that over time the subside. My theory is that if the fakes put a subsatnce to mimick or copy gh side they would remain longer if not during the whole use. the reason i believe that is the year prior to this i used a generic at 5iu a day and my sides never went away.

anyway that my $.02

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## marcus300

^^exactly totally agree

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## swithuk

ok understood . many thanks to you both for your replies 

im just about to start a new box so im hoping this one will be different .i will do 3i.u in the morning and 3 in the evening and see how things go . maybe be they are sending me inferior gear because im buying so little .......?

i will email the rep im dealing with there and explain . but im sure this will be a waist of time 

mind you years ago when i was using real jintropin i didnt get much sides then either apart from my hands tingling . maybe i just dont get sides ?

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## Far from massive

Damn I hate being in a situation like that, 

Its so hard to be an impartial judge when you have a couple of grand worth of "HGH" you are hopeing is good. I have not read all of your posts but it sounds as if you are now only on HGH IE no AAS. If so I really doubt that you are immune to all the sides...that is if on AAS you may be less likely to notice some of them but if using only HGH it would be hard not to notice the changes after 20 days particularly of 6iu's pd.

By the way this is all based of what I have read I am by no means an expert on growth.

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## Razor

Well been back on for almost 2 weeks at 10iu and it's working, sleep is perfect, fingernails are growing daily which never happens unless I'm on growth. Skin looks better, pumps are amazing in the gym and my bad knee already feels better. Energy is improved throughout the day I could not ask for better results.

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## marcus300

> Well been back on for almost 2 weeks at 10iu and it's working, sleep is perfect, fingernails are growing daily which never happens unless I'm on growth. Skin looks better, pumps are amazing in the gym and my bad knee already feels better. Energy is improved throughout the day I could not ask for better results.


You've been on 10ius per day straight off for two wks and you have no sides ? I always knew you was unstable but you have either bunk or your exaggerating the truth. I can't read utter rubbish like that without stating the obvious.

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## Razor

> You've been on 10ius per day straight off for two wks and you have no sides ? I always knew you was unstable but you have either bunk or your exaggerating the truth. I can't read utter rubbish like that without stating the obvious.


I ran 10iu for 6 months took a month off now I'm back on, I'm pretty used to it by now and I do have sides, numb hands and feet and my right arm falls asleep a lot. Hands get sore too, my feet get cold a lot and my hands do as well.

Bottom line I dont think i got fakes

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## Razor

Totals

Serostim (18iu) vials.. I ran 10months 126iu a month 4iu ed and 2 months of Nurtropin AQ 300iu (60iu) cartridges 


Anki 1600iu (currently taking)
Same results as serostim and nurtropin

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## marcus300

> I ran 10iu for 6 months took a month off now I'm back on, I'm pretty used to it by now and I do have sides, numb hands and feet and my right arm falls asleep a lot. Hands get sore too, my feet get cold a lot and my hands do as well.
> 
> Bottom line I dont think i got fakes


Like I said 10ius from a break and that's all your experiencing, I still stand by what I said. Strange how now you got numb hands etc when you first posted you didn't.

If your happy you carry on,

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## sgt2jay

> Like I said 10ius from a break and that's all your experiencing, I still stand by what I said. Strange how now you got numb hands etc when you first posted you didn't.
> 
> If your happy you carry on,


my $.02 on ansomone at 10iu a day. i ran it for during a 12 week test only cycle ramoing up from 5iu to 10iu (5iu am 5iu pm) i dont recall my total duration at 10iu but it was at least 4 weeks. i my side where as close as i want to get to bad. cold hands, numb fingers and my fore arms where the worst.

i am only speaking from my experiences.

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## lightweight11

I used chinese blue tops about 6 months ago with good results. I wasn't taking any AAS at the time only the gh. I ran it low 2-3iu only and noticeably lost fat and maintained the muscle I had with fairly high cardio. So i don't believe that all gh from China is fake but its definitely a gamble based on everything Ive read on this thread.

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## DanB

> ^^ I have also done a lot of business with Anki for close to 8 yrs, infact I am on personaly speaking terms with them but for 3 seperate guys state similar things regarding the quality and results thats good enough for me to stop using them. They have done it before and I am 100% sure they doing it again. You may think you have real, you may half real but without doubt someting has changed with them and thats why I am not foing any more business with them.
> 
> The same thing hapened with generics, I spent another 3-4 yrs using them because i thought I had real gh but this time China aren't having anymore of mine money, i'm done with them!!
> 
> I have 2 other guys starting their anki gh on Monday, see what comes back


several ftiends get serum/igf test quarterly and if any problems i let you know but between us all locally it is massive amount of money and I dont want to discuss figures on open forum for obvious reasons but due to the large turnover we also have a close business relationship with them and out of 10k+ of i.u since this came to light there has been no problems on this end although if the suitation changes I'll will inform you promptly

G

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## DanB

> marcus -
> Thanks for your input. again my intentions were not to point fingers as i hope you understand just looking at different opiontions thanks for clearing it up. I wont speak for everone herre but you seem to be the go to guy for good solid advice and i am sure many have learned from you knowledge and experience.
> 
> To Swithuk -
> I agree with Marcus if you have felt nothing after 20 day i would be concerned. I have been using Ansomone for close to a year now and at various dosages. starting out at 2.5 iu i felt all the side and as my body got used to them they subsided. i believe a big indication that your gh is is good is not only the side but just as important that over time the subside. My theory is that if the fakes put a subsatnce to mimick or copy gh side they would remain longer if not during the whole use. the reason i believe that is the year prior to this i used a generic at 5iu a day and my sides never went away.
> 
> anyway that my $.02


2.5 is nothing 

pin 10 and if no sides then id get worried

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## sgt2jay

> 2.5 is nothing 
> 
> pin 10 and if no sides then id get worried


i think you missed my point. i said at 2.5 iu i had sides stating that at 10 you should have plenty.

and i have ran 10iu

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## lightweight11

> 2.5 is nothing 
> 
> pin 10 and if no sides then id get worried


Dan I bought some kigs 5 months ago and havent used them yet. According to this thread all kigs are garbage. What's the best way to see if there legit, the serum test through privatemdlabs? Or pin a high amount and see if I get sides?

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## gixxerboy1

> Dan I bought some kigs 5 months ago and havent used them yet. According to this thread all kigs are garbage. What's the best way to see if there legit, the serum test through privatemdlabs? Or pin a high amount and see if I get sides?


just through them in the garbage

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## DanB

> Dan I bought some kigs 5 months ago and havent used them yet. According to this thread all kigs are garbage. What's the best way to see if there legit, the serum test through privatemdlabs? Or pin a high amount and see if I get sides?


i thought you refering to ansomone

i aggee with above

bin them 

g

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## Razor

> Like I said 10ius from a break and that's all your experiencing, I still stand by what I said. Strange how now you got numb hands etc when you first posted you didn't.
> 
> If your happy you carry on,


No disrespect but if you read back I was not posting about my negative side effects and I was not asked about any of them, them I was just posting my current positive side effects. Now im writing this up and my right arm feels numb..thx marcus :Smilie:  lol

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## marcus300

Sure it is lol

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## gixxerboy1

> Sure it is lol


i love it

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## Razor

> Sure it is lol


no i was just joking its not falling asleep lol, anyways enough about me, how is your batch going?

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## marcus300

> no i was just joking its not falling asleep lol, anyways enough about me, how is your batch going?


To be perfectly honest I can't tell when your lying or telling the truth.

My batch lol 

They are selling fakes again so I'm pretty sure how its going to go. I'm not trying to convince myself they real I'm sure they selling fakes. I just hope some are real then its not fully wasted.

Look guys I know I've pissed some people off about Anasome but trust me your not as pissed as me, I've lost my source! 

Carry on using them, use generic I'm not bothered but what I have done is bring the whole issue about Chinese fakes to the table and after a few years nearly everyone agrees. I also bring 25yrs worth of experience so believe what you want, think what you want but don't lie to yourself.

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## Razor

> To be perfectly honest I can't tell when your lying or telling the truth.
> 
> My batch lol 
> 
> They are selling fakes again so I'm pretty sure how its going to go. I'm not trying to convince myself they real I'm sure they selling fakes. I just hope some are real then its not fully wasted.
> 
> Look guys I know I've pissed some people off about Anasome but trust me your not as pissed as me, I've lost my source! 
> 
> Carry on using them, use generic I'm not bothered but what I have done is bring the whole issue about Chinese fakes to the table and after a few years nearly everyone agrees. I also bring 25yrs worth of experience so believe what you want, think what you want but don't lie to yourself.


No I agree with you I think they might be screwing people here and there, Dan seems to still have hope for them however I am never buying from them again because of all these rumors. Its to risky now. I dont think I am going to use GH anymore either after I used all this up. Its not sustainable, and not worth the trouble. After this run it will be close to 2.5 years of using it and thats long enough for a lifetime IMO.

Sorry you lost your source, I got into this whole thing cause of your recommendation so if your not using them anymore Im not going to either. Im not as pissed though as you though cause you obviously want to stay on it and I really dont care anymore after this blast. Im never going to be Phil Heath so it does not matter, I think I made as much gains as Im going to from it and thats all folks.

As I mentioned earlier Ive run the good american and swiss pharma grade gh and had just as good results with anki as I did with them, so its too bad about all this new stuff because obviously anki was a lot cheaper and just as good quality. And it puts people out in the cold who actually want to give GH a try and try to get something outside of the rips, jins and other fakes :Frown:  This is all really too bad if its true.

Im usually joking when I put a  :Smilie:  behind what I say

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## Razor

Also what are some names of reputable generics? Be nice for people here at least to have there shot at real gh and this not be the end of it for everyone.

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## lightweight11

> just through them in the garbage


Funny thing is my source still stands behind his kigs saying everyone loves them. Maybe he'll give me a refund. 




> Also what are some names of reputable generics? Be nice for people here at least to have there shot at real gh and this not be the end of it for everyone.


Yes I'd be interested to hear some thoughts on this??

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## marcus300

> No I agree with you I think they might be screwing people here and there, Dan seems to still have hope for them however I am never buying from them again because of all these rumors. Its to risky now. I dont think I am going to use GH anymore either after I used all this up. Its not sustainable, and not worth the trouble. After this run it will be close to 2.5 years of using it and thats long enough for a lifetime IMO.
> 
> Sorry you lost your source, I got into this whole thing cause of your recommendation so if your not using them anymore Im not going to either. Im not as pissed though as you though cause you obviously want to stay on it and I really dont care anymore after this blast. Im never going to be Phil Heath so it does not matter, I think I made as much gains as Im going to from it and thats all folks.
> 
> As I mentioned earlier Ive run the good american and swiss pharma grade gh and had just as good results with anki as I did with them, so its too bad about all this new stuff because obviously anki was a lot cheaper and just as good quality. And it puts people out in the cold who actually want to give GH a try and try to get something outside of the rips, jins and other fakes This is all really too bad if its true.
> 
> Im usually joking when I put a  behind what I say


No problem

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## marcus300

> no i was just joking its not falling asleep lol, anyways enough about me, how is your batch going?


I've got a post in this thread somewhere about this but I've use hyges,Jins,blues,yellow, kigs, sero,Lilly and infact my generic supplier years ago sent me clear vials and nearly every label and bixes going , he said stick want you want on lol
I'll write something and post it soon but there is a lot of information already in this thread from many guys giving their opinions and views

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## marcus300

> no i was just joking its not falling asleep lol, anyways enough about me, how is your batch going?


I've got a post in this thread somewhere about this but I've use hyges,Jins,blues,yellow, kigs, sero,Lilly and more infact my generic supplier years ago sent me clear vials and nearly every label and boxes going , he said stick want you want on lol
I'll write something and post it soon but there is a lot of information already in this thread from many guys giving their opinions and views

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## Razor

> I've got a post in this thread somewhere about this but I've use hyges,Jins,blues,yellow, kigs, sero,Lilly and more infact my generic supplier years ago sent me clear vials and nearly every label and boxes going , he said stick want you want on lol
> I'll write something and post it soon but there is a lot of information already in this thread from many guys giving their opinions and views


ok thx i think it would help a lot of people.

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## ChuckEisenmench

Still researching and posting so I can have access to all the secret squirrel shit all the hall of famer and vet extrodinaire have. Need mentor and useful advice concerning GOOD sources not just what is crap! Have you heard of lixus labs?

----------


## gixxerboy1

We dont discuss sources and there is a section to ask about labs

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## Ronnie Rowland

> Anasome have been great they did have issues with sending out fakes about ten years who but they got another licence and they sorted themselves out. But what's made me think twice recently is I've had 3 separate incidents reported to me by serious bodybuilders who know what they are doing and saying. Some reported the powder flake not solid but all of then said they had different sides this time round and held a lot of water and gains are not the same. Some report zero gains some said minor but strange sides. 3 separate incidents reporting the same things tell me something is wrong! Also ankie wouldn't re ship even when photos were taken of the powder flake and reported sides and gains different, she wouldn't re ship even when these people have been buying from her for years. Sounds like they built up a big client base for selling cheap pharm grade now they selling either peptides,fakes or some other chemical they manufacturing for big $$$$$ .
> 
> I'm disappointed with ankie and Chinese growth to be honest. All you can do is try it and see for yourself you may have real or maybe half is real who knows but I won't be running it again even though I have over a 1000ius here .
> 
> Do what you want, believe what you want but for me ankie is over to many coincidences


*I am sad to say that marcus is once again correct in what he has to say regarding anasome GH made by ankebio. Their products and customer service were great as of last year but things have taken a turn for the worst this year. Products being received are not pharm grade GH and customer service (nancy) will not return e-mails. Some of the vials being sent out are like concrete and will not mix, while others are loose flakes, not in disc form as in the past. In the past, noticeable results began showing with ANSOMONE at aronnd 3 months. Whatever ankebio is selling now is not real GH because the results are not there and it's been around 5 months. They could care less it would seem. I'll post some more updates later. Hopefully they will send out free replacements with real pharm grade GH this time around to those who have been wronged!?

NOTE: We should all give praise to marcus for coming out with the truth because he was the one who introduced ansomone to us and he could have just stayed silent on the matter. We are lucky to have him on this board. You don't find people like marcus on others boards these days. They are all about themselves and he puts others before himself. I respect that kind of behavior more than I can put in words. Simply put, it's called being a real man! *

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## Far from massive

> Also what are some names of reputable generics? Be nice for people here at least to have there shot at real gh and this not be the end of it for everyone.


I think Marcus has made it pretty clear... there is not even any good Chinese Pharma growth left, so there damn sure are no good generics. But if I am wrong and anyone knows of any good generics let me know...

One guy said that the blue tops with the sparkles and yellow dots on the upper left of the box are smokin!

Of course he was the guy selling them ;-)

PS this post is all in fun..not meant to flame anyone..I as much as anyone wish there were some legit blue tops out there...thats how the muthafrs get you...its kinda like a shimmer in the desert...you get thirsty enough and everything looks like water.

I agree with Ronnie, it would be a lot easier for Marcus to just keep quiet than bury oneself in all the controversy and make enemies of all those who sell the blues, yellows,kigs etc etc etc. Thanks for stepping up to the plate.

----------


## lovbyts

Well as usual my timing is stellar and I probably have 2k worth of? ???? Sitting in a refrigerator in the Philippines waiting for me.  :Frown:  good thing I spend months researching only to be wrong most of the time ..... good thing I'm independently wealthy and money is not an issue. NOT

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## Angel of death

> *I am sad to say that marcus is once again correct in what he has to say regarding ansomone GH made by ankebio. Their products and customer service were great as of last year but things have taken a turn for the worst this year. Products being received are not pharm grade GH and customer service (nancy) will not return e-mails. Some of the vials being sent out are like concrete and will not mix, while others are loose flakes, not in disc form as in the past. In the past, noticeable results began showing with ANSOMONE at aronnd 3 months. Whatever ankebio is selling now is not real GH because the results are not there and it's been around 5 months. They could care less it would seem. I'll post some more updates later. Hopefully they will send out free replacements with real pharm grade GH this time around to those who have been wronged!?
> 
> NOTE: We should all give praise to marcus for coming out with the truth because he was the one who introduced ansomone to us and he could have just stayed silent on the matter. We are lucky to have him on this board. You don't find people like marcus on others boards these days. They are all about themselves and he puts others before himself. I respect that kind of behavior more than I can put in words. Simply put, it's called being a real man! *



agreed, marcus seems like a genuine dude

----------


## trackstar19

Well I've been using generic blue tops for 2 months now, taking 5iu's a day (sprinkling in the odd 10iu/day once a week or so). I've never used hgh before but i'm fairly certain this is the real deal (as far as being dosed properly or not - that's anybodies guess). My finger and toe nails are growing way faster than usual, i swear i have to keep on top of them every few days now. I was exceptionally tired for the first few weeks, vivid dreams, 5-8lbs of water retention (i didn't slowly work my way up in dose), numb hands/feet/tingly feelings throughout the day. Mostly at night and in the morning. Crazy wrist pumps at the gym that often times make me have to drop the weight towards the end of my workout (time to invest in some straps). Definitely been leaning out and feeling 'fuller' all at the same time, too.

So i'm assuming it's the real deal despite all the bad talk with most generic blues (got them from my source directly in China). The thing is - Threads like this have me concerned. Was I just lucky? Could this potentially just be peptides that mimic all the same effects as hgh? I'm going to have to decide what to do in 4-5 months when i run out. I plan on running HGH for years to come, but money is a bit of an issue. Buying these generics make it very doable, but if i were to go the us pharma route it would be 'breaking the bank' so to speak. 

What would you guys personally do? Realistically if i keep seeing results from these blue tops i'll order more of them and run with it and hope for the best. Would hate to find out i'm not injecting hgh, though. I suppose a smart choice would be to get my igf-1 levels tested or do the hgh serum test. Might be my next move.

----------


## Razor

> Well I've been using generic blue tops for 2 months now, taking 5iu's a day (sprinkling in the odd 10iu/day once a week or so). I've never used hgh before but i'm fairly certain this is the real deal (as far as being dosed properly or not - that's anybodies guess). My finger and toe nails are growing way faster than usual, i swear i have to keep on top of them every few days now. I was exceptionally tired for the first few weeks, vivid dreams, 5-8lbs of water retention (i didn't slowly work my way up in dose), numb hands/feet/tingly feelings throughout the day. Mostly at night and in the morning. Crazy wrist pumps at the gym that often times make me have to drop the weight towards the end of my workout (time to invest in some straps). Definitely been leaning out and feeling 'fuller' all at the same time, too.
> 
> So i'm assuming it's the real deal despite all the bad talk with most generic blues (got them from my source directly in China). The thing is - Threads like this have me concerned. Was I just lucky? Could this potentially just be peptides that mimic all the same effects as hgh? I'm going to have to decide what to do in 4-5 months when i run out. I plan on running HGH for years to come, but money is a bit of an issue. Buying these generics make it very doable, but if i were to go the us pharma route it would be 'breaking the bank' so to speak.
> 
> What would you guys personally do? Realistically if i keep seeing results from these blue tops i'll order more of them and run with it and hope for the best. Would hate to find out i'm not injecting hgh, though. I suppose a smart choice would be to get my igf-1 levels tested or do the hgh serum test. Might be my next move.


Get a high serum test within 2 hours of pinning

----------


## trackstar19

> Get a high serum test within 2 hours of pinning


That's what im thinking of doing. I figured they were slightly underdosed so i started off dosing it fairly high - but because of that i got all the side effects like crazy. I've been following some threads on different boards where they're keeping track of how the different types of hgh are testing out on the serum test. Costs something like $70 or so, right? Will likely do this fairly soon. If they test legit i'm going to be ecstatic - i could run this gh for years upon years without breaking the bank. Sounds dreamyyyyy. Hah.

----------


## gixxerboy1

> That's what im thinking of doing. I figured they were slightly underdosed so i started off dosing it fairly high - but because of that i got all the side effects like crazy. I've been following some threads on different boards where they're keeping track of how the different types of hgh are testing out on the serum test. Costs something like $70 or so, right? Will likely do this fairly soon. If they test legit i'm going to be ecstatic - i could run this gh for years upon years without breaking the bank. Sounds dreamyyyyy. Hah.


read up on the serum test. It doesnt mean the gh is bio available. Stop trying to convince the shit you have is real. its garbage and you know

----------


## marcus300

> *I am sad to say that marcus is once again correct in what he has to say regarding ansomone GH made by ankebio. Their products and customer service were great as of last year but things have taken a turn for the worst this year. Products being received are not pharm grade GH and customer service (nancy) will not return e-mails. Some of the vials being sent out are like concrete and will not mix, while others are loose flakes, not in disc form as in the past. In the past, noticeable results began showing with ANSOMONE at aronnd 3 months. Whatever ankebio is selling now is not real GH because the results are not there and it's been around 5 months. They could care less it would seem. I'll post some more updates later. Hopefully they will send out free replacements with real pharm grade GH this time around to those who have been wronged!?
> 
> NOTE: We should all give praise to marcus for coming out with the truth because he was the one who introduced ansomone to us and he could have just stayed silent on the matter. We are lucky to have him on this board. You don't find people like marcus on others boards these days. They are all about themselves and he puts others before himself. I respect that kind of behavior more than I can put in words. Simply put, it's called being a real man! *


Thanks for bringing your experience of Anasome out in the open, this will add to the weight of what I have been telling members regarding Ankie.

It was hard to bring this to light because I was the one guy who use to tell members that Ankie are 100% good to go but things change and the older guys who have been around a bit will understand that nothing is for ever especially when your dealing with China. Like Ive stated before I did alot of business with Ankie and for them to turn around and change things as really disappointed me. Ive used HGH for around 15yrs on and off and Ive tried the best and worse but when you know something is wrong no matter how many times Ive stated they are good to go you have to be honest. Trust me I never wanted to come out and state this about Ankie but I felt I had to just like I had to tell members about them when things were good.

Over the last couple of days Ive also had another guy email me that he thinks his anasome is fake, he tells me that he's got gyno from using gh which as never happened before and he tells me thats all he is using gh for the last 6 months he hasn't started his cycle yet, he also states that the results are different than last time and things don't feel right with this batch. This guy isn't a member here so he didn't see this thread by the way. This is 4 guys now and it looks like its building.Looks like mine is going to be bunk which really is pissing me off but at least I know now and not when Ive spent another few thousand.

Thanks Ronnie for you kind comment much appreciated and thanks for coming out public, means alot.

----------


## trackstar19

> read up on the serum test. It doesnt mean the gh is bio available. Stop trying to convince the shit you have is real. its garbage and you know


Not really disagreeing with you at all bro, I truthfully don't know if it's garbage or not. Underdosed or mostly peptides? Probably. I'm getting positive results from it, though. So I figure whatever it is, as long as it's giving me positive results I might as well ride it out and see what happens. If I had the $$$ for us pharma gh i'd be on it in a heartbeat. Now to just win the lottery

----------


## gixxerboy1

> Not really disagreeing with you at all bro, I truthfully don't know if it's garbage or not. Underdosed or mostly peptides? Probably. I'm getting positive results from it, though. So I figure whatever it is, as long as it's giving me positive results I might as well ride it out and see what happens. If I had the $$$ for us pharma gh i'd be on it in a heartbeat. Now to just win the lottery


yea but what if some of the stuff in the vials are dangerous to you. They are coming from a chinese chemicals

----------


## trackstar19

> yea but what if some of the stuff in the vials are dangerous to you. They are coming from a chinese chemicals


 Definitely my biggest concern man, especially with the huge welts it was giving me. I know, fairly stupid for me to inject it considering the type of shiit that comes out of china. On the same note though, my source for these blues is the same source in china I use to get my raw powders, etc. And they've always been good to go (knock on wood). So I guess i'm just hoping for the best. Common sense would say not to use it though, I agree entirely with you bro.

I guess when it comes to the aas/ped's game due to the legality of it in most countries many of us are forced to go thru questionable means to get our supplies. And because of that we can never truly be sure how pure or what exactly we're injecting if it isn't legit HG stuff straight from a pharmacy. It sucks and is a little scary to think about, but I don't see myself getting out of the game any time soon. I appreciate your responses and concerns though bro, always good to read stuff that gets me thinking/reminds me this shiit i'm injecting into myself could literally be ANYTHING.

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

*It would be greatly appreciated if some of you guys would contact Nancy by email at Anke-bio and ask why they have not responded to any of my e-mails since spring regarding having sold poor quality Ansomone. Feel free to use my name (Ronnie Rowland) and tell them I am a VET here on the anabolic review board. I am curious to see if they will respond and if so what they have to say. Hopefully this will send a strong message to them because I've already threatened to go public on the main search engines if they do not get back with me by Wednesday of this week and I will keep that promise. I really dislike doing this and so does marcus but they have left us no choice at this point. It would appear they think ignoring the problem will make us go away but all that's going away is a lot of their business if they don't make things right because word travels fast on the net.

Thanks guys!*

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

Below is a post I just found over at www.professionalmuscle.com by a well respected board member. Ansomone's so-called Pharm grade GH is fake according to his blood labs. marcus and I were right! 


"08-11-2012, 03:56 PM 
Queefer 
Featured Member / Kilo Klub Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,131 

Friday I took 10iu Anasomone gh at 810am and had blood drawn at 1133am and Saturday got back the results at .8-------------Meaning no gh in there whatsoever. These are the ones that have the grey tops that say flip off, which the website says are the real ones.

Obviously the factories in China have figured out that all they have to do is put out a fancy box with nice labels and inserts and we will buy them until now."

----------


## sgt2jay

I wish i still had the email buty erlier this year i got an email from Nancy warning about fakes. stating somthing about the cap should say "flip off", if the cap says "Ansomone" it is fake. This seemed to me the first indicator that the days or real Ansomone were over. shortly aflter that email i started to see sponsors on another forum offering ansomone, and now you can just google it and buy online. all to me were indications of fakes.

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

> I wish i still had the email buty erlier this year i got an email from Nancy warning about fakes. stating somthing about the cap should say "flip off", if the cap says "Ansomone" it is fake. This seemed to me the first indicator that the days or real Ansomone were over. shortly aflter that email i started to see sponsors on another forum offering ansomone, and now you can just google it and buy online. all to me were indications of fakes.


The fake stuff some have received came directly from Nancy who gave out the warning. Very shady!

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

^^This is probably the email you're talking about.



Hi, dear ******,

Good day to you!

As you know, we AnkeBio are the unqiue manufacturer of HGH with our own trade name ANSOMONE, and our official website is www.ankebio.com .

But recently, some of our customers gave us the feedback that they bought fake HGH/Ansomone when they did not order from us directly.

Here, we offers easy ways to verify genuine HGH/Ansomone in order that you can use genuine HGH/Ansomone originated from Ankebio in safe way.

Step1. Before or when ordering:
------Please make order from us the unique manufacturer directly for your first choice. 

Step2. When you receive HGH/Ansomone:
------Please check the outer packet/kit (10 vials each packet/kit) and the inner vials of HGH/ANSOMONE you got. If there is no sealed sticker with anti-counfeiting numbers on packet/kit, and the cap of vial is with "ANSOMONE", we AnkeBio confirm that it is FAKE ANSOMONE.

------Our original vial's cap is with "FLIP OFF" in order to indicate user how to open the vial conveniently.

------If the cap of vial you got is with "FLIP OFF", please DO NOT forget to verfity it on our official anti-counterfeiting system as discription on the following Step3.

Step3. Verify on our offical and unique Anti-counterfeiting System
------Please go to the the following Anti-counterfeiting System, and then you will find how to verify HGH/Ansomone you got Genuine or Fake.

http://www.ankebio.com/english/ansomone.asp?third_id=4

Hope these information is helpful!

For any questions, please feel free to contact us.

Thanks for your time!

Regards,
Yours Sincerely,
Nancy
12/03/2012

----------


## Far from massive

I wonder what the hell really does take place at a legit pharma that produces legit HGH and distributes it the BB community that causes them to cease sales of this same HGH through the channels they have established. 

Perhaps they Anke now have enough sales through legit channels to move all their HGH and they prefer to no longer be associated with the BB/athletic community? Or maybe they have by some means lost the ability to produce HGH as they had in the past?

Or did the demand for HGH suddenly exceed their production capabilities, so rather than loose business while they expand they decided to start pumping out fakes?

Seems something along either of these lines must have happened, as they really can not think that they can continue selling fakes to a market built and accustomed to real HGH.

I guess it does not really matter, but I can't help but wonder? 

FFM

----------


## marcus300

> I wonder what the hell really does take place at a legit pharma that produces legit HGH and distributes it the BB community that causes them to cease sales of this same HGH through the channels they have established. 
> 
> Perhaps they Anke now have enough sales through legit channels to move all their HGH and they prefer to no longer be associated with the BB/athletic community? Or maybe they have by some means lost the ability to produce HGH as they had in the past?
> 
> Or did the demand for HGH suddenly exceed their production capabilities, so rather than loose business while they expand they decided to start pumping out fakes?
> 
> Seems something along either of these lines must have happened, as they really can not think that they can continue selling fakes to a market built and accustomed to real HGH.
> 
> I guess it does not really matter, but I can't help but wonder? 
> ...


They are selling fakes because of one thing "money" and I'm sure it will only be to the retail side of the buisiness ie us bodybuilders, seeing that they have built up enough customers they can sell to us without any serious backlash. Seriously what are we going to do if its fake? Nothing except slag them off on a bodybuilding board. I've been telling everyone about generics for yrs but its still huge business so what harm are we going to do to them, nothing.

Suppose what do you expect from China

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## Razor



----------


## Ronnie Rowland

*NOTE:* Real pharmaceutical companies do not offer to replace medications because they know they are real upon inspection before leaving the facility and recalls do not have to be sent back! Like marcus said the fakes look legits because they come directly from ankie and are you are using the exact same boxes and leaflets. Nancy finally got back with me after I threatened many would go public. They are well aware of the fact that people living inside the U.S. have to pay a re-shipper a fee to ship it to the U.S. since they will not. In fact, ordering Ansomone GH inside the U.S. invloves paying ankieo for the GH, then paying a bank transfer fee to get them the money, a western union fee to re-shipper, and then a fee to the re-shipper to ship. Were talking a lot of time and money! And their lame response as of today was:



"All of our ANSOMONE/HGH are manufactured in the same production line in our GMP plant for many years. There is no reason for us to offer you FAKE products if you bought products directly from us.

As our ANSOMONE/HGH has very good reputation for many years, that is reason why so lots of FAKE ANSOMONE and FAKE AnkeBio people on internet now. The inner and outer packing of these FAKE are very similar to our real products.

Once again, if you confirm that something wrong with the products we sent to you, please send them back, we will replace a new batch for you. It is reasonable for both sides, we believe that all the people will think it is reasonable Solutions.

Thank you for your time!

Regards,
Nancy

28/08/2012

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## Razor

Do o u believe her?

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## marcus300

> Do o u believe her?


If you re- read his post you will find the answer  :Smilie:

----------


## marcus300

> Below is a post I just found over at www.professionalmuscle.com by a well respected board member. Ansomone's so-called Pharm grade GH is fake according to his blood labs. marcus and I were right! 
> 
> 
> "08-11-2012, 03:56 PM 
> Queefer 
> Featured Member / Kilo Klub Join Date: Nov 2002
> Posts: 4,131 
> 
> Friday I took 10iu Anasomone gh at 810am and had blood drawn at 1133am and Saturday got back the results at .8-------------Meaning no gh in there whatsoever. These are the ones that have the grey tops that say flip off, which the website says are the real ones.
> ...


Good find Ronnie, all this evidence is mounting. Its really pissed me off I'm say on 1000ius erkkkkk

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## Razor

> Good find Ronnie, all this evidence is mounting. Its really pissed me off I'm say on 1000ius erkkkkk


Have u done a serum test?

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## marcus300

> Have u done a serum test?


No I haven't razor but I have in the past a few times and to be honest its s mine field . Had many different results even from pharm. Timing of the gh, length between sample and test its really hard work to get a really accurate test done. But by all means try one if you have your natural range and also when you had pharm before would be good indicators but there is to much evidence and to many people complaining no matter what the test comes back and says.

----------


## Razor

> No I haven't razor but I have in the past a few times and to be honest its s mine field . Had many different results even from pharm. Timing of the gh, length between sample and test its really hard work to get a really accurate test done. But by all means try one if you have your natural range and also when you had pharm before would be good indicators but there is to much evidence and to many people complaining no matter what the test comes back and says.


Well u got 1000ius are you going to send it back for a refund or exchange? Since you live in the UK seems like it would be easier then in America

----------


## swithuk

[QUOTE=Ronnie Rowland;6133252][B]It would be greatly appreciated if some of you guys would contact Nancy by email at Anke-bio and ask why they have not responded to any of my e-mails since spring regarding having sold poor quality Ansomone. Feel free to use my name (Ronnie Rowland) and tell them I am a VET here on the anabolic review board. I am curious to see if they will respond and if so what they have to say. Hopefully this will send a strong message to them because I've already threatened to go public on the main search engines if they do not get back with me by Wednesday of this week and I will keep that promise. I really dislike doing this and so does marcus but they have left us no choice at this point. It would appear they think ignoring the problem will make us go away but all that's going away is a lot of their business if they don't make things right because word travels fast on the net.

Thanks guys!

im happy to email her again to complain !

i already emailed her about my complaints . to be fair ive only been using 5i.u for about 20 days so i guess her reply is to be expected . her reply is below....

Thank you for your e-mail!

You only ordered 20 vials of 10 IU/vial by now from us since last month. So it is difficult to evaluate effects.

As we AnkeBio are the qualified and licensed manufacturer of HGH, we offer products with best quality and it is difficult for us to give you more advice for exact personal using.

So if you have any question for daily dosage or for further instruction, please kindly ask your doctors for advice after he gives you evaluation of your natural growth hormone level.

Hope these information is helpful!

Thank you for your time!

Regards,
Yours Sincerely,
Nancy

----------


## Razor

[QUOTE=swithuk;6134448]


> [B]It would be greatly appreciated if some of you guys would contact Nancy by email at Anke-bio and ask why they have not responded to any of my e-mails since spring regarding having sold poor quality Ansomone. Feel free to use my name (Ronnie Rowland) and tell them I am a VET here on the anabolic review board. I am curious to see if they will respond and if so what they have to say. Hopefully this will send a strong message to them because I've already threatened to go public on the main search engines if they do not get back with me by Wednesday of this week and I will keep that promise. I really dislike doing this and so does marcus but they have left us no choice at this point. It would appear they think ignoring the problem will make us go away but all that's going away is a lot of their business if they don't make things right because word travels fast on the net.
> 
> Thanks guys!
> 
> im happy to email her again to complain !
> 
> i already emailed her about my complaints . to be fair ive only been using 5i.u for about 20 days so i guess her reply is to be expected . her reply is below....
> 
> Thank you for your e-mail!
> ...


She is a good bullshitter, ill give her that, that offered no help to anyone

----------


## marcus300

> Well u got 1000ius are you going to send it back for a refund or exchange? Since you live in the UK seems like it would be easier then in America


They won't exchange, why would they? In their eyes they sent pharm grade gh

----------


## Razor

> They won't exchange, why would they? In their eyes they sent pharm grade gh


im sorry you have to deal with this marcus, back to my original thoughts then
burn baby burn

----------


## Swifto

_Dear Sir,

Thank you for your e-mail!

1. We AnkeBio have manufactured and marketed our ANSOMONE/HGH for injection for more than 14 years. There is no problem reports about our ANSOMONE/HGH by now. In fact, quite a few customers have used our products for 10 years with great satisfaction.

2. Because our products have great reputation on internet, there are so lots of FAKE ANKEBIO Poeple on internet sell FAKE ANSOMONE and FAKE HGH; also some Competitors make rumor and slander us on internet.

3. We are regret for their unlawful and calumniation as they could not proceed their business in the good way but iniquity business actions.

We think that it is not neccesary for us to waste time on these absurd actions. The best way for us is to ignore these silly untrue information on internet, because our HGH is real great HGH. The truth should never be changed whatever some people spreaded rumor.

4. The best way to clarify our HGH product is to test it in any authorized lab your trusted . Our HGH/ANSOMONE could be purchased and available in almost all the hospitals in China now, and any people could buy it from these hospital in China directly, then test them in the trusted labs. Any thing will be clear at that time.
5. Our information could be downloaded on our website ******. Hope these information is helpful for your evaluation. In fact, there are lots of our ANSOMONE users around the world and growing, and they are satisfied with our products and service.

6. Only these people who makes orders derectly from our unique official website ********** could get the real and genuine HGH/ANSOMONE with best quality and best service.

Hope these information is helpful for you.

Thank you for your time!

Regards,
Yours Sincerely,
Nancy
14/08/2012
_

----------


## Razor

> Dear Sir,
> 
> Thank you for your e-mail!
> 
> 1. We AnkeBio have manufactured and marketed our ANSOMONE/HGH for injection for more than 14 years. There is no problem reports about our ANSOMONE/HGH by now. In fact, quite a few customers have used our products for 10 years with great satisfaction.
> 
> 2. Because our products have great reputation on internet, there are so lots of FAKE ANKEBIO Poeple on internet sell FAKE ANSOMONE and FAKE HGH; also some Competitors make rumor and slander us on internet.
> 
> 3. We are regret for their unlawful and calumniation as they could not proceed their business in the good way but iniquity business actions.
> ...


More dissolution than ever now..this is so frustrating

----------


## Sheven

They practically offer their head on a plate with this stupid email. Its incredible how stupid the Chinese workers can be (of course backed by their managers and CEO). Ansomone is registered nowhere outside China but they sell it over website...same as GenSci they ask for a anal rape and most certainly will get it one day or another.

----------


## Razor

What a GD mess this has become!!!!

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

> _Dear Sir,
> 
> Thank you for your e-mail!
> 
> 1. We AnkeBio have manufactured and marketed our ANSOMONE/HGH for injection for more than 14 years. There is no problem reports about our ANSOMONE/HGH by now. In fact, quite a few customers have used our products for 10 years with great satisfaction.
> 
> 2. Because our products have great reputation on internet, there are so lots of FAKE ANKEBIO Poeple on internet sell FAKE ANSOMONE and FAKE HGH; also some Competitors make rumor and slander us on internet.
> 
> 3. We are regret for their unlawful and calumniation as they could not proceed their business in the good way but iniquity business actions.
> ...


My wife use to work for a pharmaceutical plant and they set a side products to be tested when running it on the line. Also, there is another department called quality assurance that collects samples to be taken to the lab and randomly tested. Other samples are stored for shelf life to make sure the potency is good til the expiration date. Now if they had a recall on a specific batch it would be different but they are not recalling any of their products. A real pharmaceutical company keeps samples in case something goes wrong. You cannot send a controlled substance back to the plant, only the pharmacy. No one can send it back because it's illegal and they know it. Many trusted them by sending them money but why do they not trust us when we say it was working for a while but now it's not. Many of us have been in the game long enough to know what's real and what's fake. If your eating an apple it should look and taste like an apple not something else. 

Let's all spread the truth to as many boards as possible and over time I am sure it's going to hurt them to some degree when people type in ansomone and read about them selling couterfeit GH. It will have a trickle down effect! I am very dissapointed because I thought the chineese would be more willing to stand behind their products.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> My wife use to work for a pharmaceutical plant and they set a side products to be tested when running it on the line. Also, there is another department called quality assurance that collects samples to be taken to the lab and randomly tested. Other samples are stored for shelf life to make sure the potency is good til the expiration date. Now if they had a recall on a specific batch it would be different but they are not recalling any of their products. A real pharmaceutical company keeps samples in case something goes wrong. You cannot send a controlled substance back to the plant, only the pharmacy. No one can send it back because it's illegal and they know it. Many trusted them by sending them money but why do they not trust us when we say it was working for a while but now it's not. Many of us have been in the game long enough to know what's real and what's fake. If your eating an apple it should look and taste like an apple not something else.
> 
> Let's all spread the truth to as many boards as possible and over time I am sure it's going to hurt them to some degree when people type in ansomone and read about them selling couterfeit GH. It will have a trickle down effect! I am very dissapointed because I thought the chineese would be more willing to stand behind their products.


Everything with China has changed. As far as they are concerned, the U.S. is not there friend. They are only concerned with capitalizing on anything they can with us. We will never be able to pay the debt back. At some point the U.S. will have to have a Leader that is going to have to act like someone from the private sector and tell them we will settle our debt for pennies on the dollar, which of course they will not be willing to do. IMO its probably going to get worse as far as relations with them. I think the idea of spreading the word on all the boards and creating a few blogs or site that is set up well enough to show up on search engines and talk about there fakes. They are not going to own up to mfg. junk. There site has the scrolling warning about counterfeit products as if that covers them. I do believe spreading the word will put a big hurt on there sales. Once there rep is ruined, it will be difficult to make a comeback. I personally never purchased there products, but sounds like it was a big seller with many. To start making fake products and selling them to people that have spent a lot of money with them and referred (endorsed) there company is just LOW AND DIRTY BUSINESS, with no regard for people in general or any type of loyalty to dedicated customers. No sense wasting energy on fixing or hoping they will change, better to go with spreading the word!

----------


## Razor

I'm starting to think anything made in China is just bad..how can they make the same product as Lilly or Serono or genetech for 75% less? GH is a million dollar operation. I know what it takes to make this stuff, I happen to live in the Bio-Tech capital of the US, here in San Diego/Oceanside/San Francisco

Ive met people from all these companies at bars and charity events and house parties, and talked to them about GH, it costs millions of dollars to make this stuff and for R&D. After the initial R&D is done obviously the price comes down, GH back in the early 2000's was 10 times the price of what it is now..

I thought about this all last night...Im going to call a friend of a friend and possible see if I can give them a vial from Anki and see if they will test it.

http://www.gene.com/gene/about/locations/
http://www.xconomy.com/san-diego/200...er-of-silence/

What do you guys think they are putting the vials now? IGF...how much less does it cost to make IGF vs GH?

----------


## marcus300

> I'm starting to think anything made in China is just bad..how can they make the same product as Lilly or Serono or genetech for 75% less? GH is a million dollar operation. I know what it takes to make this stuff, I happen to live in the Bio-Tech capital of the US, here in San Diego. Ive met people from all these companies at bars and charity events and talked to them about GH, it costs millions of dollars to make this stuff and for R&D. After the initial R&D is done obviously the price comes down, GH back in the early 2000's was 10 times the price of what it is now..
> 
> http://www.gene.com/gene/about/locations/
> http://www.xconomy.com/san-diego/200...er-of-silence/
> 
> What do you guys think they are putting the vials now? IGF...how much less does it cost to make IGF vs GH?


I really don't know what they are putting inside the Chinese GH because the sides have been wide spread, but I good guess would be something like peptides, AI's, anti diuretic hormones or in some worse case's some chemical what mimic gh side which increase BP,water and some some odd cases gyno. Its really pissed me off because now I have to look for another secure source which is like a needle in a haystack  :Frown:

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## Razor

> I really don't know what they are putting inside the Chinese GH because the sides have been wide spread, but I good guess would be something like peptides, AI's, anti diuretic hormones or in some worse case's some chemical what mimic gh side which increase BP,water and some some odd cases gyno. Its really pissed me off because now I have to look for another secure source which is like a needle in a haystack


If they are putting IGF-1 in, how would you know?

Dude I have so much respect for what you have done here, you had the balls to come forth and say hey this is fcked up and Ill admit that, and your trying to get to the bottom of that, rather than tucking your tail and running.

Respect

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## marcus300

The generic companies always say get yourself tested but they know you can't test the powder for being an active hormone so they are putting something in what would knock out your ranges or imply you have a higher level of gh, some cases they put fuk all in it. I'm more pissed than anything because u buy thousands of ius and also pass a lot of business there way so it was hard but after 4 separate now coming to me I had no choice.

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## Razor

> The generic companies always say get yourself tested but they know you can't test the powder for being an active hormone so they are putting something in what would knock out your ranges or imply you have a higher level of gh, some cases they put fuk all in it. I'm more pissed than anything because u buy thousands of ius and also pass a lot of business there way so it was hard but after 4 separate now coming to me I had no choice.


Lets say you got real IGF-1 not LR3...would it help you at all?

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## marcus300

Yes igf-1 would help but not lr3 shite

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## Razor

How much is the production cost diff btw IGF-1 and GH?

Here 2mg if HGH frag are $38.00
http://www.ar-r.com/peptides.html

So 3.3mg of GH from Anki is what?

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## Razor

> Yes igf-1 would help but not lr3 shite


What is the active life of IGF-1?

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## swithuk

that would be amazing if you were to do that . it would be definitive and be a weight off everyones mind although ive heard its prohibitively expensive ?
im certainly thinking about going to the doctor after pining 10 i.u and get a blood test done 
getting some sort of test done makes economic sense as either people have large stock they are now unsure of or have to spend money to get another source 

for me iam still hoping for a positive outcome or its a blip in production . they are a massive company listed on the stock exchange . they supply hospitals and also make cancer treatments . its not a ugl thats for sure !!! so im hoping that they are trying to cover up a situation / mistake that has happened rather than the worse case scenario of intentionally supplying snide gear. 
chinese / asians will cover up and lie about a mistake even a small one meanwhile they will try to rectify the situation but would never admit to it - this is the situation im hope for 

*iam a new member here and for what its worth i also greatly appreciate marcus's time and information on here*

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## EasyDoesIt

> that would be amazing if you were to do that . it would be definitive and be a weight off everyones mind although ive heard its prohibitively expensive ?
> im certainly thinking about going to the doctor after pining 10 i.u and get a blood test done
> getting some sort of test done makes economic sense as either people have large stock they are now unsure of or have to spend money to get another source
> 
> for me iam still hoping for a positive outcome or its a blip in production . they are a massive company listed on the stock exchange . they supply hospitals and also make cancer treatments . its not a ugl thats for sure !!! so im hoping that they are trying to cover up a situation / mistake that has happened rather than the worse case scenario of intentionally supplying snide gear.
> chinese / asians will cover up and lie about a mistake even a small one meanwhile they will try to rectify the situation but would never admit to it - this is the situation im hope for
> 
> iam a new member here and for what its worth i also greatly appreciate marcus's time and information on here


I seriously doubt that it's a production mistake.. Possibly and probably only products sold to U.S. or other countries on a retail level would be more likely. I'm pretty sure the hospitals and commercial accounts, doc's etc in Asia and maybe elsewhere are receiving quality products. They would be more subject to legal ramifications if hospitals etc were receiving bad product.

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## swithuk

yes i understand what your saying but to me this is why im suspicious. why would they be making real hgh for some . stop the process and then fill a few with bunk and then continue on making the real stuff . they are either makin real hgh or they are not . i dont believe theyd be making real hgh for some and not for others 
i dont want to go too conspiracy theory but ....... maybe nancy and a couple of others are making money on the side supplying bunk gear with all the correct labelling ?

anyway for me the most logical situation for a massive pharma company like that is they have had a few quality control mistakes that they know about but wont admit to and they have or will rectify the problem and continue production / supply . theyve got the licences and all accreditation which will have cost them millions to get not to mention the millions of investment. why would they want to f**k up their reputation for the whole company for comparatively small money ?!

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> yes i understand what your saying but to me this is why im suspicious. why would they be making real hgh for some . stop the process and then fill a few with bunk and then continue on making the real stuff . they are either makin real hgh or they are not . i dont believe theyd be making real hgh for some and not for others
> i dont want to go too conspiracy theory but ....... maybe nancy and a couple of others are making money on the side supplying bunk gear with all the correct labelling ?
> 
> anyway for me the most logical situation for a massive pharma company like that is they have had a few quality control mistakes that they know about but wont admit to and they have or will rectify the problem and continue production / supply . theyve got the licences and all accreditation which will have cost them millions to get not to mention the millions of investment. why would they want to f**k up their reputation for the whole company for comparatively small money ?!


Well, that's a good point, but as I stated, there concerns with what they would be selling online in the U.S. to retail market is separate from there secure business. . They may have discovered that Jin is making millions selling junk. It would be worth it for them to set up lab just for the other market. That lab would not be sophisticated and inexpensive relative to dollars made to set up. If they were inspected through rumors in China, that lab may not even be in same location. It is possible that Nancy whom I don't know may be using there name to operate a side business. In China they do not operate like the U.S. so there scrutiny in there country for what is happening with a bunch of people online is not going to have ramifications like a company such as Phizer or Lily

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## EasyDoesIt

> Well, that's a good point, but as I stated, there concerns with what they would be selling online in the U.S. to retail market is separate from there secure business. . They may have discovered that Jin is making millions selling junk. It would be worth it for them to set up lab just for the other market. That lab would not be sophisticated and inexpensive relative to dollars made to set up. If they were inspected through rumors in China, that lab may not even be in same location. It is possible that Nancy whom I don't know may be using there name to operate a side business. In China they do not operate like the U.S. so there scrutiny in there country for what is happening with a bunch of people online is not going to have ramifications like a company such as Phizer or Lily


I hit the post button by accident before finished. 
Just not sure what's up, but you have a point, I just don't believe they could accidentally mfg. fakes. This fake business is not small money.

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## marcus300

> I seriously doubt that it's a production mistake.. Possibly and probably only products sold to U.S. or other countries on a retail level would be more likely. I'm pretty sure the hospitals and commercial accounts, doc's etc in Asia and maybe elsewhere are receiving quality products. They would be more subject to legal ramifications if hospitals etc were receiving bad product.


Agreed

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## Sheven

> Agreed


are you insane? china is the country where for several years in a row they have been mixing milk with melanine and children has been dying. this happened around 2004 and until 2008 with the olympics they didnt crack down on that because there was interest. 

this is the country where FAMOUS pharmaceutical manufacturers from china bought INCREDIBLE TOXIC capsules made from leather residues and sold them all around china and even EXPORT???

http://offbeatchina.com/from-waste-l...posed-in-hebei

forget it bro's, anhui anke is doing a big illegality selling gear off the email to any body contacting and also stating that in emails, if they have such regard for the law what regard do you think they put into their medicine? the chinese DON'T GIVE A SHIT, unless you control them extremely strict with bullet proof contracts and COA and supply chain security FORGET IT. you are bending over and waiting to get F*CKED by this ruthless people. they are ripping off all the civilized world by stealing all patents and respecting NOTHING of the western world standards meanwhile rubbing all this in our face by showing off in expensive luxury brands. Well good for them, but someone tell them to put TOILET PAPER in the can because some poeple DO WHIPE THEIR ASS.

****ing scum of the eart chinese people

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## Sheven

> yes i understand what your saying but to me this is why im suspicious. why would they be making real hgh for some . stop the process and then fill a few with bunk and then continue on making the real stuff . they are either makin real hgh or they are not . i dont believe theyd be making real hgh for some and not for others 
> i dont want to go too conspiracy theory but ....... maybe nancy and a couple of others are making money on the side supplying bunk gear with all the correct labelling ?
> 
> anyway for me the most logical situation for a massive pharma company like that is they have had a few quality control mistakes that they know about but wont admit to and they have or will rectify the problem and continue production / supply . theyve got the licences and all accreditation which will have cost them millions to get not to mention the millions of investment. *why would they want to f**k up their reputation for the whole company for comparatively small money ?!*


because they DON'T GIVE A SHIT. they are totally corrupt all the money they do with the export of this product is ILLEGAL and is hidden is not official, is the business of the some managers and the some 25 year old bitch that is controlling the email. That's it. don't you even imagine they ever report this in their balance sheet, how could they? i have visited ankebio in hefei and talked to the general manager. it wasn't even for gh is was for interferon alpha 2b, they cannot export ANYTHING without proper permits not to mention restricted medicine, all this email selling shit is the scheme of few workers inside there. i even got a keychain from this ****s.

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## Sheven

this is their catalog they fill you with bullshit claiming they are serious and that never sell unoficial then have the nerve to protect their brand and say other people want to ruin their name. What about the thousands of dolars they get from each ripped of client like marcus here? what about their name they don't give a shit they think in Europe and USA rains with cash and that all western world is so rich that they can just mock us in the face and treat us like retarded people.

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## marcus300

> are you insane? china is the country where for several years in a row they have been mixing milk with melanine and children has been dying. this happened around 2004 and until 2008 with the olympics they didnt crack down on that because there was interest. 
> 
> this is the country where FAMOUS pharmaceutical manufacturers from china bought INCREDIBLE TOXIC capsules made from leather residues and sold them all around china and even EXPORT???
> 
> http://offbeatchina.com/from-waste-l...posed-in-hebei
> 
> forget it bro's, anhui anke is doing a big illegality selling gear off the email to any body contacting and also stating that in emails, if they have such regard for the law what regard do you think they put into their medicine? the chinese DON'T GIVE A SHIT, unless you control them extremely strict with bullet proof contracts and COA and supply chain security FORGET IT. you are bending over and waiting to get F*CKED by this ruthless people. they are ripping off all the civilized world by stealing all patents and respecting NOTHING of the western world standards meanwhile rubbing all this in our face by showing off in expensive luxury brands. Well good for them, but someone tell them to put TOILET PAPER in the can because some poeple DO WHIPE THEIR ASS.
> 
> ****ing scum of the eart chinese people


Calm down you dumb arse. I agree but production with ankie as only gone bad but yes the Chinese will do anything for money.

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## Razor

> this is their catalog they fill you with bullshit claiming they are serious and that never sell unoficial then have the nerve to protect their brand and say other people want to ruin their name. What about the thousands of dolars they get from each ripped of client like marcus here? what about their name they don't give a shit they think in Europe and USA rains with cash and that all western world is so rich that they can just mock us in the face and treat us like retarded people.



Is that you in your avi?

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## Sheven

> Calm down you dumb arse. I agree but production with ankie as only gone bad but yes the Chinese will do anything for money.


I had one of my rasist moments but truth is i used to be a sino-phile since i realized they are the biggest thiefs in the world. The civilized world has done a huge mistake allowing them into the school systems, now the sea turtle phenomenon is causing the largest tehnology and knowledge shift in history. They apply everything they learned in our school systems and use it against us.

I have a huge experience with chinese factories especially for chemicals (not hormones, chill) and they are the most insane and ruthless guys i have ever seen. Most factories that have FDA approval to export intermediates to USA don't even have windows at thei warehouses and the bathroom sticks like its has been cleaned 8 years ago. In the hormones field i have visited just Anke and Zhongshang Hygene and both factroies are schetcky as hell, the real factory and the real managers have nothing to do with the export that is going on through the emails, emails are controlled most of the time by very young girls that have a deal with a middle chain manager (Hygene salesagent was once selling goods that Hygene never manufactured, but was made in an outside factory since theirs is very controlled, but still claiming the quality of Hygene).

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## Ronnie Rowland

If you purchased 4iu vials or 6 iu vials of ANSOMONE GH and it has these numbers on the side of the box it's fake!

6iu vial box
20120329
201402
s20093035


4iu vial box
20120320
201402
s199990021

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## EasyDoesIt

> Calm down you dumb arse. I agree but production with ankie as only gone bad but yes the Chinese will do anything for money.


@ Marcus To funny man, and on a serious note thanks for putting this out there, fortunately I have quality source at this point, but if I didn't I just wouldn't be taking hgh, or id be negotiating my best price through an anti-aging Co. but at some point if offered Ankei product I now know NOT! @ Sheven, You are absolutely correct on there (CINESE) CORRUPT, SLIMEY, FU.. EVERYONE FOR THE MONEY ATTITUDE! 
My take on it: They know anyone buying off the net has no where to go for complaints. Our gov. I don't think so, there gov. Laugh at you, yes they are totally corrupt, but killing off there customer base would not be in there best interest for repeat business in there country or anywhere else. Maybe something that caused death 15-20 years later: YES! There thieves, but not idiots and I just don't think in the big picture they want to lose there customers. The whole Internet selling biz is separate from there real biz. They know there gov. Is on there side as far as selling junk off the net, so there safe there. The link regarding the factory states owner arrested and shut down. There are Rogue manufacturers in every country. Ankei knows what it can get away with, i still believe they discovered the fact that people in the U.S. and elsewhere are buying up cheap, what they think is HGH and wanted to capitalize on the market. Cost is minimal to set up plant to knock that junk out. At the end of the day, there going to say its not us to the buyers and the Chinese gov. does not care. MATTER OF FACT THE GOVERNMENT THERE MAY BE GETTING A CUT OF ALL THIS CRAP FROM ALL THE COMPANIES THERE SELLING FAKES!!! They know as long as they can put anything in the product that remotely has some side that hgh would have, they will keep selling it. 
In big business, companies know if there competitors are raking in money in an area they have not tapped into, "Don't wait to long or you will be out of business". None of us should be so naive to think that selling this crap online is small business, it may very well be larger than the legitimate end of business, profit wise. 
ALL WE CAN DO TO GET EVEN IS SPREAD THE WORD!!!! YOU GUYS HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF ANKEI, BUT I JUST DONT BUY THE FACT THAT NANCY IS BEHIND THIS. 
Anywhere I can ad my two cents to any other sites or blogs, I will be happy to. I am registered with another site like this, but never use it. I found this site to be great and do not have time to spend on them.

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## Swifto

They're probably spending the hundreds of thousands of dollars to manufacturer their legit HGH to sell to hospitals and HRT clinics and then selling shit in a bottle for exporting to the end user, such as us.

Selective scamming is the oldest trick in the book.

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## Ronnie Rowland

> they're probably spending the hundreds of thousands of dollars to manufacturer their legit hgh to sell to hospitals and hrt clinics and then selling shit in a bottle for exporting to the end user, such as us.
> 
> Selective scamming is the oldest trick in the book.


Exactly!

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## Sheven

guys, chinese hospitals are full with counterfeit medicine and their biggest factories were using capsules made from scrap leather that remained from the clothing industry. can you imagine that? do you think they have high standards for the chinese system and bad for export? they have horrible standards for chinese system and however you want to call it, for export.

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## EasyDoesIt

> guys, chinese hospitals are full with counterfeit medicine and their biggest factories were using capsules made from scrap leather that remained from the clothing industry. can you imagine that? do you think they have high standards for the chinese system and bad for export? they have horrible standards for chinese system and however you want to call it, for export.


I don't doubt that at all buddy. But from a business standpoint, it would only make sense to separate a factory making fake gear from one that makes real. Even if the factory that makes real has Rats running around and is not clean, it would still make sense to separate the two. This is a a little off the subject but a good example of why separation would make sense. Years ago I dealt with a company that reproduced Videos. They did work ranging from Churches to Porn and one of there big accounts was a large televised Ministry. The porn videos were mislabeled for the Ministry. All the Bible readers plugged there Videos in and found PORN! That had to be Funny! They quit doing business with the Porn people. 

On another note, if a separate factory is being used to make junk, they can always say, "NOT OUR COMPANY" we are over here on 4th street, not main street. It's pretty obvious, that the standards for factories making perishable products would not have near the quality control as the U.S. but what were talking about is making FAKE PRODUCT VS. REAL PRODUCT. The real product works and fake does not. For the sake of just saying: Real product costs 100.00 to make and is sold through distributors which starts chopping the price up and they triple there profit. Fake cost is 20.00 and sold direct to consumer, and profit may be 15 times higher. I'm just throwing out numbers, but you get the picture.

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## Sheven

> I don't doubt that at all buddy. But from a business standpoint, it would only make sense to separate a factory making fake gear from one that makes real. Even if the factory that makes real has Rats running around and is not clean, it would still make sense to separate the two. This is a a little off the subject but a good example of why separation would make sense. Years ago I dealt with a company that reproduced Videos. They did work ranging from Churches to Porn and one of there big accounts was a large televised Ministry. The porn videos were mislabeled for the Ministry. All the Bible readers plugged there Videos in and found PORN! That had to be Funny! They quit doing business with the Porn people. 
> 
> On another note, if a separate factory is being used to make junk, they can always say, "NOT OUR COMPANY" we are over here on 4th street, not main street. It's pretty obvious, that the standards for factories making perishable products would not have near the quality control as the U.S. but what were talking about is making FAKE PRODUCT VS. REAL PRODUCT. The real product works and fake does not. For the sake of just saying: Real product costs 100.00 to make and is sold through distributors which starts chopping the price up and they triple there profit. Fake cost is 20.00 and sold direct to consumer, and profit may be 15 times higher. I'm just throwing out numbers, but you get the picture.


Like someone said before, selective scamming all the way. But don't assume they make distinctions when scamming anyone, the same way they scam Chinese people like they do foreigners. I am sure they make also decent products even high quality ones when they need (are pushed or have interest).

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## itrain

Hi ,, I am new to this board a member from PM brought this thread to my attention

I just wanted to put my 2 cents for what it is worth

I have used ansomone for over 2 years before that was jintropin,,, and have also used jintropin for the ukranian/russian market... (my gh history includes humatrope/saizen/norvo nordisk)

The ansomone and jintropin have compared in results and igf levels... more recently have tested serum on both ansomone and jintropin and results mimmicked usa pharma

I am still using ansomone but havent been able to get a serum test as of the last 3 months since moving over to Canada or else I would take one and post results

All of the members I have dealt with when I was a rep for a now private company who showed me there gh serums where all in the 20-30 range at 10IU for ansomone and jintropin

Queefer ansomone was from a sponsor that does not have a good rep so that should be taken with a grain of salt


Marcus I have read your posts.. That is all great ... why should someone believe that "oh I talked to a few people and they had bad side effects" this is something you would of along time ago laughed at because gh is not something you can truly base on side effects and Im sure most people here know this.. GH involves so much money that the only way we can really get an honest judge of quality is through a vial analyis or the poor but still affective to about 60-70% is the gh serum.. So unless you have valid tests showing your gh from Said source is bunk then I personally would just read rite through it.

I will still be using ansomone and my russian jins until I pass away .. I think it all boils down to your source ... Its unfortunate but thats what the GH game has come to

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## Sgt. Hartman

^^This whole anke bio selling bunk GH deal is very recent. There are many of us who have been running ansomone for extended periods of time with great results but it's just within the last several weeks that all this has surfaced. 

I've just started my new batch of ansomone a few days ago and haven't noticed anything different at all - not the way the powder looks, reconstitutes, or post injection sides. I'm about to ramp to 10 iu so i should know something very shortly. Once I get to 10iu I'll get blood work done and post up GH serum level and IGF-1 level. Fingers crossed ........

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## Razor

> Hi ,, I am new to this board a member from PM brought this thread to my attention
> 
> I just wanted to put my 2 cents for what it is worth
> 
> I have used ansomone for over 2 years before that was jintropin,,, and have also used jintropin for the ukranian/russian market... (my gh history includes humatrope/saizen/norvo nordisk)
> 
> The ansomone and jintropin have compared in results and igf levels... more recently have tested serum on both ansomone and jintropin and results mimmicked usa pharma
> 
> I am still using ansomone but havent been able to get a serum test as of the last 3 months since moving over to Canada or else I would take one and post results
> ...


I hope Ronnie respondes to this

----------


## BigBadWolf

> Hi ,, I am new to this board a member from PM brought this thread to my attention
> 
> I just wanted to put my 2 cents for what it is worth
> 
> I have used ansomone for over 2 years before that was jintropin,,, and have also used jintropin for the ukranian/russian market... (my gh history includes humatrope/saizen/norvo nordisk)
> 
> The ansomone and jintropin have compared in results and igf levels... more recently have tested serum on both ansomone and jintropin and results mimmicked usa pharma
> 
> I am still using ansomone but havent been able to get a serum test as of the last 3 months since moving over to Canada or else I would take one and post results
> ...


Sounds like someone might be losing money if everyone finds out.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> Ansomone is registered nowhere outside China but they sell it over website...same as GenSci they ask for a anal rape and most certainly will get it one day or another.





> forget it bro's, anhui anke is doing a big illegality selling gear off the email to any body contacting and also stating that in emails, if they have such regard for the law what regard do you think they put into their medicine?





> all this email selling shit is the scheme of few workers inside there. i even got a keychain from this ****s.


They don't sell GH via their web site or even email to any country where GH is illegal or customs is an issue. That's how GenSci got busted and lost their license and it seems AnkeBio has learned their lesson from that.

Anybody who orders Ansomone directly to US or Australia or other countries where it's illegal is for sure ordering a fake/counterfeit product.

----------


## Razor

> They don't sell GH via their web site or even email to any country where GH is illegal or customs is an issue. That's how GenSci got busted and lost their license and it seems AnkeBio has learned their lesson from that.
> 
> Anybody who orders Ansomone directly to US or Australia or other countries where it's illegal is for sure ordering a fake/counterfeit product.


Very good point!!!

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

> Hi ,, I am new to this board a member from PM brought this thread to my attention
> 
> I just wanted to put my 2 cents for what it is worth
> 
> I have used ansomone for over 2 years before that was jintropin,,, and have also used jintropin for the ukranian/russian market... (my gh history includes humatrope/saizen/norvo nordisk)
> 
> The ansomone and jintropin have compared in results and igf levels... more recently have tested serum on both ansomone and jintropin and results mimmicked usa pharma
> 
> I am still using ansomone but havent been able to get a serum test as of the last 3 months since moving over to Canada or else I would take one and post results
> ...


First of all I want to say I appreciate you coming over here registering on this board and taking the time to give us both your experience and opinion of ansomone, etc. I understand where you are coming from but I also want you to know where marcus and many of the rest of us are coming from but first I have a very important question for you- "Do you believe that the generics from china like riptropin that cause more water bloat that legit pharm grade because they are not purified as much to make it more cost effective? " 

Now I will explain why there is so much drama on the rise concerning Ansomone. Last year marcus praised them because some of his friends started getting results using ansomone. I was one of those guys! I ran some before my show last year and it was so strong I could tell the difference if I ran 4 ius verse 8 ius during my final wekes of dieting. When I bumped it up to 8ius for a couple of weeks my bodyweight remained the same yet my definition increased. But, I did not have enough money to run 8ius the whole time and when I bumped it down to 4ius daily I began to lose more weight along with muscle. I won the masters division last year by the way using ansomone. I've been a personal trainer for 28 years and I know the difference between good products , watered down products, and fake products. I know my body very well. What I used dieting down for the show was top notch. I compare it to pharm grade serostim I got from a U.S. doctor/friend/bodybuilder back in the 90's. 

My second experience came with ansomone earlier this year. I used 4ius of ansomone per day for 4 months beginning 2 months after having had a 4-level spinal fusion on my lower back on 12-14-11 to help ensure my bone graft mended together. Not only did my bones fuse together nicely, I looked almost contest ready 6 months post back surgery! Simply put, I could tell it was real GH.So here's two good experiences I had using ansomone.

Now for the bad experience. My wife had a 2-level foot fusion on 5-30-12 so I ordered some more Ansomone from the same source (NANCY) to ensure her bone fused together as mine did. I also ordered some extra ansomone for myself because I was looking so good I did not want to stop. I saw right then and there that real GH was addictive! Now here's what went down- I ordered 6iu vials but received both 4 iu vials and 6 iu vails for some strange reason!? However, I did receive all the ius I ordered and nancy apologized for not sending out all 6iu vials that I had wanted instead of both 4iu and 6 iu. The first box of 4iu vials was like concrete and would not mix. I contacted Nancy 5 times over a 6 week period regarding this issue and I never got a response back which was way out of character from the previous experience I had with anke bio. The GH we got was bad and what pisses me of the most was that 3 months later the bone density in my wifes foot that was fused looks very poor which should not be since GH increases bone mineral uptake, especially when taking 4 citracal calcium pills per day along with a high protein diet! Furthermore, I have been able to lift heavier with more intensity because my back has healed a great deal, diet has remained the same, but I no longer look hard as a rock and veiny but rather soft and lacking vascularity. I should be even harder and more vascular if the growth hormone was real but it is not. 

Before I started the bad batch of GH my wife was taking pics of me like crazy at the sleep in we stay at 2 weeks after her surgery because I looked so good. She said I looked the best she had seen since I was contest ready last year before winning my division. But 10 weeks later we visited her doctor again and I asked her if she wanted to take more pics while staying at the same hotel in the very same room. She said I see no need because you don't look nearly as big or vascular as you did 10 weeks ago! I told her I was afraid she was going to say that because I had been noticing the same thing but was not wanting to accept that the last GH I purchased was no good. 

*NOTE:* I have been using 4iu vials and 6iu vials..Heres the numbers on the boxes:

6iu box
20120329
201402
s20093035

4iu box
20120320
201402
s199990021

*IMPORTANT NOTE:* After threatening nancy I would go public I finally reiieved the following 4 emails below in quotes and am still waiting for a response. I hope they make things right because if they do not it's going to be drama central on several bodybuiding boards. I also want to make it very clear that marcus has nothing to gain by coming forth with the truth. He just received 1000ius and chances are great it's no good as well. I realize it was either a bad batch some of us got or they are selective scamming. If it had been a bad batch they would have handled the entire situation different from the get go IMO. Surely you can see this!? 

1) "You can visit China to see how our company goes well, and our company has sold these products for around 15 years. We have won lots of adwards issued by China Government. And any people can purchase all sizes of our products in almost all hospitals in China with different batches. Why we sell FAKE to the people to destroy our good reputation? If you insisted that we sold FAKE products to you, why you ask us to offer you more?
Anyway, if you are so eager to get, we can offer you some FREE. But be informed that we only offer real products!"

2) "Yes, our 10 IU is marked with "grey top with flip off", but it DOES NOT mean that all vials with grey top with flip off are from us! FAKE products can with same color top with same word of flip off."

3) "All of our ANSOMONE/HGH are manufactured in the same production line in our GMP plant for many years. There is no reason for us to offer you FAKE products if you bought products directly from us. As our ANSOMONE/HGH has very good reputation for many years, that is reason why so lots of FAKE ANSOMONE and FAKE AnkeBio people on internet now. The inner and outer packing of these FAKE are very similar to our real products. Once again, if you confirm that something wrong with the products we sent to you, please send them back, we will replace a new batch for you. It is reasonable for both sides, we believe that all the people will think it is reasonable Solutions."

4)" Dear Ronnie, Thank you for your e-mail! Yes, we have kept all samples for all batches in our QA. Please kindly inform us which batch number you think different from previous, then we could check from our side. Thank you for your time and kind help! 

Regards,

Yours Sincerely,

Nancy

29/08/20



Thank you for your time!



Regards,

Nancy

28/08/2012

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

^^^^That's strange because I've asked Nancy several times now if they have the 16iu vials which I wanted to order, or if they had the 4iu or 6iu vials that I was gonna order for a buddy. Every time I've asked her, for the past year + she's said the only thing they currently have available is the 10iu vials........so far all my 10 iu vials have been legit although I just started a new batch so we'll see.

----------


## Razor

> First of all I want to say I appreciate you coming over here registering on this board and taking the time to give us both your experience and opinion of ansomone, etc. I understand where you are coming from but I also want you to know where marcus and many of the rest of us are coming from but first I have a very important question for you- "Do you believe that the generics from china like riptropin that cause more water bloat that legit pharm grade is because it's they are not purified as much to make it more cost effective? " 
> 
> Now I will explain why there is so much drama on the rise concerning Ansomone. Last year marcus praised them because some of his friends started getting results using ansomone. I was one of those guys! I ran some before my show last year and it was so strong I could tell the difference if I ran 4 ius verse 8 ius during my final wekes of dieting. When I bumped it up to 8ius for a couple of weeks my bodyweight remained the same yet my definition increased. But, I did not have enough money to run 8ius the whole time and when I bumped it down to 4ius daily I began to lose more weihgt along with muscle. I won the masters division last year by the way using ansomone. I've been a personal trainer for 28 years and I know the difference between good products , watered down products, and fake products. I know my body very well. What I used dieting down for the show was top notch. I compare it to pharm grade serostim I got from a U.S. doctor/friend/bodybuilder back in the 90's. 
> 
> My second experience came with ansomone earlier this year. I used 4ius of ansomone per day for 4 months beginning 2 months after having had a 4-level spinal fusion on my lower back on 12-14-11 to help ensure my bone graft mended together. Not only did my bones fuse together nicely, I looked almost contest ready 6 months post back surgery! Simply put, I could tell it was real GH.So here's two good experiences I had using ansomone.
> 
> Now for the bad experience. My wife had a 2-level foot fusion on 5-30-12 so I ordered some more Ansomone from the same source (NANCY) to ensure her bone fused together as mine did. I also ordered some extra ansomone for myself because I was looking so good I did not want to stop. I saw right then and there that real GH was addictive! Now here's what went down- I ordered 6iu vials but received both 4 iu vials and 6 iu vails for some strange reason!? However, I did receive all the ius I ordered and nancy apologized for not sending out all 6iu vials that I had wanted instead of both 4iu and 6 iu. The first box of 4iu vials was like concrete and would not mix. I contacted Nancy 5 times over a 6 week period regarding this issue and I never got a response back which was way out of character from the previous experience I had with anke bio. The GH we got was bad and what pisses me of the most was that 3 months later the bone density in my wifes foot that was fused looks very poor which should not be since GH increases bone mineral uptake, especially when taking 4 citracal calcium pills per day along with a high protein diet! Furthermore, I have been able to lift heavier with more intensity because my back has healed a great deal, diet has remained the same, but I no longer look hard as a rock and veiny but rather soft and lacking vascularity. I should be even harder and more vascular if the growth hormone was real but it is not. 
> 
> Before I started the bad batch of GH my wife was taking pics of me like crazy at the sleep in we stay at 2 weeks after her surgery because I looked so good. She said I looked the best she had seen since I was contest ready last year before winning my division. But 10 weeks later we visited her doctor again and I asked her if she wanted to take more pics while staying at the same hotel in the very same room. She said I see no need because you don't look nearly as big or vascular as you did 10 weeks ago! I told her I was afraid she was going to day that because I had been noticing the same thing but was not wanting to accept that the last GH I purchased was no good. 
> ...


My hat is off to you, you are the man

----------


## marcus300

I was going to comment but looks like Ronnie said it all.

----------


## Sheven

> They don't sell GH via their web site or even email to any country where GH is illegal or customs is an issue. That's how GenSci got busted and lost their license and it seems AnkeBio has learned their lesson from that.
> 
> Anybody who orders Ansomone directly to US or Australia or other countries where it's illegal is for sure ordering a fake/counterfeit product.


Its illegal everywhere. They commit a felony exporting a highly controlled product out of china in the first place, without the license to do so and second of all, they cannot sell prescription medicine through email to individuals without them even presenting a prescription not to mention any import license. So yeah, they didn't learn anything, they have the same businessmodel as GenSci, highly illegal but they don't push their luck with USA, except that, they couldn't care less about the law.

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

*I'll provide an update with the results of the new batch they send but I am pretty confident the replacement batch is going to be real. Not sure when I will receive it because no need in shipping it here when it's still hot. Correct? I want to make it clear that I am not against the chineese or any nationality for that matter. I have respect for everyone who is kind and honest. I was wronged and spoke out. Now they are caliming they are going to try and make it right. We will see what happens!?* 




Dear Ronnie,



1. Our Quality Control Center has tested our kept samples for two kinds of important Identification and characterization tests, HLPC and Electrophoresis. These results show that the samples are complete conforming to the Standard Reference, that means, they are qualified to CP, EP, USP standards and without any problem.



After talking with our technicians and experts, they advised me the most important explanation for the 4 IU and 6 IU you used. The products were destroyed by high heat (such as direct sunlight, beside of heat Engine) or other silimars betwen shipping out from us to arriving you via UK especially in summer. Because HGH is a kind of bio-products with high bio-activity, which is Sensitive to high heat and similars, and hight heat will make it drop or lost bio-activity.



We always ship our product at room temparature and normal delivery time is around 7 - 10 days. It is OK for many years. 

But your order was shipped to UK first, then trans-shipped to USA at normal way. Though you store them at 2-8C when you receive them in USA, it does not mean it is not detroyed during these two long-distance shipping.



Hope these information is helpful! If you are still confused by that, please let me know.



2. If you would like we offer you our other batches to you. But please be sure to trans-ship them in good way and short time.



Thank you for your time!



Regards,

Yours Sincerely,

Nancy

31/08/2012

----------


## itrain

Hi ronnie... Yes your experience in very similar to mine constant great results however I do not know your supplier... and if all the private info you are posting is a good or bad thing for you and other who use that source as it could damage business in the future if everything does come back full circle and made good... (JUST MY HONEST OPINION)

In terms of riptropin I have never used it but have seen some top level competitors do just fine with them so I do believe they contain gh...

I was just relaying my experience and I will be still loyal to my supplier as I have no reason not to be... (another thought if someone makes good for years and has a slip up why the jump to conclusion of scam? I would first assume mistake thats only logical.)

----------


## Far from massive

That letter is funny when you think about it, 

Imagine the cost to run verification tests on a batch of growth compared to just resending. The way I see it is, if the batch were bad, after months passing they would have many other complaints and already know its bad. So if one client for no apparent reason did have a dozen kits or so that was damaged in shipment, rather than running an unneeded costly test on a known good batch to prove it was good ( when no one would believe them anyway) when they could simply resend for pennies on the dollar and have a happy client who would no doubt have posted what standup people they were for replacing his kits, saying they may have been damaged or switched but they were making good... even though they felt their product was fine.

What a bunch of BS after months and months of no response.

PS I got these blue tops and does anyone know if its true that the blue tops are actually stolen Saizen that is rebottled.....



Joke

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

> Hi ronnie... Yes your experience in very similar to mine constant great results however I do not know your supplier... and if all the private info you are posting is a good or bad thing for you and other who use that source as it could damage business in the future if everything does come back full circle and made good... (JUST MY HONEST OPINION) 
> 
> In terms of riptropin I have never used it but have seen some top level competitors do just fine with them so I do believe they contain gh...
> 
> I was just relaying my experience and I will be still loyal to my supplier as I have no reason not to be... (another thought if someone makes good for years and has a slip up why the jump to conclusion of scam? I would first assume mistake thats only logical.)


 *I think it's very important itrain for you to understand I did not jump to conclusions up front. The reason for my conclusion was months and months of no response like Far from massive stated then no results. Why did they ignore me? I don't think you have a good answer for that one nor do they. I will gladly copy/paste the e-mails I sent to them in the past in which I was totally ignored if need be. marcus will back me up on this because I sent him a pm telling him the Gh would not mix and I was being ignored. 

It was also brought to my attention that you are a sales rep for both ansomone and jintropin over at professional muscle so I understand your need to defend them. Honestly, I hate this has happened but it did. How would you have handled the situation differently? 

Regarding Riptropin, they publicly stated they are by passing a purifying process which could be a major health concern. Please explain what step Riptropin is by- passing that causes their products to make one hold more water and have more side effects than legit pharm grade GH. Even UG labs should have rules, regulations, and guidelines to follow! 

NOTE: Anything can be copied. Look at all the fake Passports, I.D., money, Purses, etc. They are professionals at what they do and I know it, they know it, and I'm sure you know it. And why would they be shipping GH in the summer knowing that the heat will destroy it and their reputation. Therefore, I assume they and all other GH suppliers will discontinue shipping GH during the summer months. Correct? Because no one would be ordering GH in the summer with that being the case because it's just throwing $ away! Why order in the first place if you know upfront the heat is going to destroy it? I appreciate your input.*

----------


## DanB

Ronnie, what your opinion on some of the outrageous serus results for rips, I have seen (sure you have too) serum results 4x's and even higher then legit pharm, same 10 i.u protocols etc

my opinion is they actually putting far more then 10i.u in the vials to build up a customer base, then when they just go bunk and let the $$$$ roll in before everybody is put wide to the scam

Am I miles off the mark?

Any insight?

----------


## Razor

> Ronnie, what your opinion on some of the outrageous serus results for rips, I have seen (sure you have too) serum results 4x's and even higher then legit pharm, same 10 i.u protocols etc
> 
> my opinion is they actually putting far more then 10i.u in the vials to build up a customer base, then when they just go bunk and let the $$$$ roll in before everybody is put wide to the scam
> 
> Am I miles off the mark?
> 
> Any insight?


I have heard about good reviews for the rips as well going on right now. I guess some lab is putting out good ones. My buddy swears by them..and IM hearing good things. From multiple people that are getting good results and they are cheap too. Cheaper than anki as well..im thinking about stocking up quickly on this rush before its too late.

----------


## marcus300

All these amazing results and higher than normal gh serum tests being shouted about in source boards are total bullshit, think about it. Source boards are full of false member accounts and fake lab reports trust me this is true. Why on earth would anyone believe anything what's pumped all over source boards in beyond me. Everything is set up to promote sponsors and to get as much money as possible from the real members. Trust me I know this for fact!

----------


## Sheven

Guys regarding Riptropin stop for a second. This whole thing about not purifying enough causing higher water retention is based on which scientific fact? I had pharm grade GH that caused me water retention (not huge) but as i know is totally related to diet and other personal hormonal balances. It would be very interesting to know what is the background on the "not purifying enough = water retention" thing.

----------


## Razor

> Guys regarding Riptropin stop for a second. This whole thing about not purifying enough causing higher water retention is based on which scientific fact? I had pharm grade GH that caused me water retention (not huge) but as i know is totally related to diet and other personal hormonal balances. It would be very interesting to know what is the background on the "not purifying enough = water retention" thing.


All the pharma grade i run, serostim's, nova disk, nurtropin all cause minor water retention as well. benefits far outweigh that right :Smilie:

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

> I have heard about good reviews for the rips as well going on right now. I guess some lab is putting out good ones. My buddy swears by them..and IM hearing good things. From multiple people that are getting good results and they are cheap too. Cheaper than anki as well..im thinking about stocking up quickly on this rush before its too late.


*Razor I know you want to get some legit GH. You are not alone. Everyone is looking for the same thing. I have a few things I want you to think about then I woud like your imput. 

1) Some of my friends and I received some Riptropin that contained some real GH in them the fist time we ordered from a particular source but the second time we got bunk Riptropin from that same source and other mods on this board also got couterfeit Riptropin from that same source. This source/sponsor is still on many source boards with some people praising his products while a few say it's fake and they often get flamed for speaking out! Did you catch that?

2) Why stock up now in this heat if it's going to be destroyed during shipping anyways?*


*IMPORTANT NOTE: There is a huge selective scamming ring going on right now in Mexico. Go to professionalmuscle.com and look up their sponsors and you will find IMEXGEARSTORE as one of their sponsors. They have been allowed to remain so far even with all the lies and scamming. IMEXGEARSTORE is pushing OMEGA LABS products. Please click on the link I provided below and read through the entire thread carefully and I think you will see a pattern. It will help you see what marcus is saying regarding real board members being scammed for money because source boards are allowing false member accounts and fake lab test to exist inorder to promote their sponsors for $. Please read carefully and I think its' going to sink in- http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...005-Omega-labs*

----------


## DanB

> I have heard about good reviews for the rips as well going on right now. I guess some lab is putting out good ones. My buddy swears by them..and IM hearing good things. From multiple people that are getting good results and they are cheap too. Cheaper than anki as well..im thinking about stocking up quickly on this rush before its too late.


your name isnt ronnie, and have you learned nothing about generic gh yet?




> All these amazing results and higher than normal gh serum tests being shouted about in source boards are total bullshit, think about it. Source boards are full of false member accounts and fake lab reports trust me this is true. Why on earth would anyone believe anything what's pumped all over source boards in beyond me. Everything is set up to promote sponsors and to get as much money as possible from the real members. Trust me I know this for fact!


yes im aware of the politics on source boards, the different batches given to vets etc, would you say they simply fake serum results or is my theory plausable of they doubling up the dose in the vial to give a genuine serum, build a customer base then scam, same as kigs last year, they had I legit batch if I remember correctly, then all bunk once they built up their base and made millions, still making millions

either way I wouldnt use them, there is several legit pharm available so it is all I have and will ever use

----------


## Razor

> your name isnt ronnie, and have you learned nothing about generic gh yet?
> 
> 
> either way I wouldnt use them, there is several legit pharm available so it is all I have and will ever use


Did i say i took any? Yea I never have taken any generic or bunk gh.

----------


## Razor

> Razor I know you want to get some legit GH. You are not alone. Everyone is looking for the same thing. I have a few things I want you to think about then I woud like your imput.
> 
> 1) Some of my friends and I received some Riptropin that contained some real GH in them the fist time we ordered from a particular source but the second time we got bunk Riptropin from that same source and other mods on this board also got couterfeit Riptropin from that same source. This source/sponsor is still on many source boards with some people praising his products while a few say it's fake and they often get flamed for speaking out! Did you catch that?
> 
> 2) Why stock up now in this heat if it's going to be destroyed during shipping anyways?
> 
> IMPORTANT NOTE: There is a huge selective scamming ring going on right now in Mexico. Go to professionalmuscle.com and look up their sponsors and you will find IMEXGEARSTORE as one of their sponsors. They have been allowed to remain so far even with all the lies and scamming. IMEXGEARSTORE is pushing OMEGA LABS products. Please click on the link I provided below and read through the entire thread carefully and I think you will see a pattern. It will help you see what marcus is saying regarding real board members being scammed for money because source boards are allowing false member accounts and fake lab test to exist inorder to promote their sponsors for $. Please read carefully and I think its' going to sink in- http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...005-Omega-labs


All good points..so the summer heat is killing the black market gh industry?

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

> All the pharma grade i run, serostim's, nova disk, nurtropin all cause minor water retention as well. benefits far outweigh that right





*True but here's the current problem:


Dollars and Fraud 


The high price tag and potential off-label and illegal uses of hGH appear to be strong incentives for criminal activity by corporations and individuals alike. Genentech illegally promoted off-label use of hGH in the first decade after it was approved. The FDA sued, and in 1994 the company agreed to pay a $50 million fine for the violations.

In late 2001 Phoenix, Arizona, witnessed a complex web of false drug orders, a bungled hijacking, theft, arson, insurance fraud, and murder over a shipment of hGH. A wholesale value of about $1 million and a street value three times that amount set these events in motion.

Counterfeiting of hGH is a growing problem. Like sidewalk vendors selling $20 Rolex watches, Internet sites offer cut-rate growth hormone prices that often are too good to be believed -- and should not be. But counterfeit drugs can also enter the regular distribution chain, complete with knock-off packaging and bogus manufacturing lot numbers. In January and May 2001, and again in May 2002, Serono and the FDA warned about circulation of counterfeit Serostim distinguishable only by small variations in lot number and package design. Some of the counterfeits have little or none of the claimed active ingredient and they may contain dangerous impurities.

Serono -- though apparently no other manufacturer of hGH -- considers the problem so significant that it established the Serostim Secured Distribution Program. As of November 1, 2002, the distribution network has been restricted, and every single dose of Serostim has a number and is tracked directly to the patient. This helps to assure the quality of the drug. It also minimizes the likelihood of drugs being diverted and reduces the potential for reimbursement fraud. 

http://www.thebodypro.com/content/art2545.html*


*In addition, here's a link that list fake jintropin sellers in China and Mexico. I'm sure there are many more!*  http://www.gensci-china.com/gensci/Fake.asp

----------


## DanB

> Did i say i took any? Yea I never have taken any generic or bunk gh.


i told you previously not to speak to me

----------


## richieu11

Been reading this forum for a couple years for just overall advice but figured I would sign up. I have read this whole thread, thank you all for the valuable info. I previously had some yellow top somatropin which worked out very well for me. But it wasn't from china. My buddy has moved out of state and I would like to go again with it. Basically from reading this thread, there is nowhere to trust online and don't buy it online? Just trying to figure out if there are any options online that are the real deal as its not happening anymore locally for me.

----------


## gixxerboy1

> Been reading this forum for a couple years for just overall advice but figured I would sign up. I have read this whole thread, thank you all for the valuable info. I previously had some yellow top somatropin which worked out very well for me. But it wasn't from china. My buddy has moved out of state and I would like to go again with it. Basically from reading this thread, there is nowhere to trust online and don't buy it online? Just trying to figure out if there are any options online that are the real deal as its not happening anymore locally for me.


there is no fishing for sources.
And yes yours were from china. You may have not gotten them from there but thats were the original purchaser got them

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

> All good points..so the summer heat is killing the black market gh industry?


 *I never said that. What I am saying is that all GH suppliers are still selling GH as usual in the heat of summer. If it's true that the heat is degrading the GH then all GH suppliers shoud be honest and tell customers upfront that GH will be destroyed if mailed in the heat and that they will only send it out in the cooler months of the year.*

----------


## gixxerboy1

> *I never said that. What I am saying is that all GH suppliers are still selling GH as usual in the heat of summer. If it's true that the heat is degrading the GH then all GH suppliers shoud be honest and tell customers upfront that GH will be destroyed if mailed in the heat and that they will only send it out in the cooler months of the year.*


when i used to get my jins when they were shipping to the us. They would ship them in ice packs. I never had any issue with them

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

> when i used to get my jins when they were shipping to the us. They would ship them in ice packs. I never had any issue with them


*That would make sense if in fact the heat does destroy GH. Maybe there's something to this since they use to ship with ice packs. Now it's all about making money! The Ansomone GH I got that worked was shipped in the cooler months. That being said, if heat destroys it, then Ansomone and other suppliers know better than to distribute without ice packs. It's the same as sending out a fake product because once you get it the potency is gone. They are responsible for proper manufacturing and shipping methods, not the customer. Thanks for bringing this point up!*

----------


## itrain

> It was also brought to my attention that you are a sales rep for both ansomone and jintropin over at professional muscle so I understand your need to defend them. Honestly, I hate this has happened but it did


I am no longer a rep as the company I was representing has went back private.... 

My opinion still stands and I am not anti generic gh... and I do believe there are some good generics I just stick to what has proven results for me.. BOTTOM LINE IS YOUR SUPPLIER... 

Great point on the ice packs and summer months I think well educated individuals have realized this and should not even be mentioned

----------


## Sheven

> I am no longer a rep as the company I was representing has went back private.... 
> 
> My opinion still stands and I am not anti generic gh... and I do believe there are some good generics I just stick to what has proven results for me.. BOTTOM LINE IS YOUR SUPPLIER... 
> 
> Great point on the ice packs and summer months I think well educated individuals have realized this and should not even be mentioned


Ice packs in shipments from China? You mean those packs that turn water after 1 day leaving you with hundred maybe liters of liquids in a air shipped parcel?

yeah, great way to get your parcel busted.

----------


## gixxerboy1

> Ice packs in shipments from China? You mean those packs that turn water after 1 day leaving you with hundred maybe liters of liquids in a air shipped parcel?
> 
> yeah, great way to get your parcel busted.


mine were wrapped in plastic. the gh and the ice packs then had insulation wrap and Styrofoam in there for insulation. that was straight from jin.

----------


## Sheven

> mine were wrapped in plastic. the gh and the ice packs then had insulation wrap and Styrofoam in there for insulation. that was straight from jin.


how many years ago ?

----------


## gixxerboy1

> how many years ago ?


years ago. before gensci got busted.

----------


## Sheven

> years ago. before gensci got busted.


Yeah...that's my point. You won't do it now...so no is not workable.

----------


## gixxerboy1

> Yeah...that's my point. You won't do it now...so no is not workable.


why wouldnt you? i never had a pack caught by customs. You think shipping like that is what lead gensci getting in trouble?

----------


## Razor

> That would make sense if in fact the heat does destroy GH. Maybe there's something to this since they use to ship with ice packs. Now it's all about making money! The Ansomone GH I got that worked was shipped in the cooler months. That being said, if heat destroys it, then Ansomone and other suppliers know better than to distribute without ice packs. It's the same as sending out a fake product because once you get it the potency is gone. They are responsible for proper manufacturing and shipping methods, not the customer. Thanks for bringing this point up!


If anki was selling legit.then should this heat issue also effect them as well and make them go bad?

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

> years ago. before gensci got busted.


I did order Gensci Jins online and it was before they got the govt on their ass. I just got the box and vials w/o BW. This was before I had heard of fake Jins being sold. I had gotten steriods from the same source and the stuff (Dianabol ) was good. I had been working out for a few years and reached a plateau on the bench(280#). After some online deca and the dbol I was doing 395# after a few cycles. Didn't know anything about PCT.

I got the last GenSci online and it came with Russian writing. The vials were wrapped in Russian newspaper. The sender was from the Eukraine. Do you think it was chinese? The site also sold me test which was good.

----------


## marcus300

I'm not buying into the heat destroying the gh from ankie. I've brought from then for yrs and many times in the height of summer. Reading Nancys emails its obvious she knows she's been busted selling fake. Do you still trust then to buy more? I don't and I've spent thousands of $ over the yrs. They just trying to give you hope so you make further purchases just like the generics companies do.

----------


## Razor

> I'm not buying into the heat destroying the gh from ankie. I've brought from then for yrs and many times in the height of summer. Reading Nancys emails its obvious she knows she's been busted selling fake. Do you still trust then to buy more? I don't and I've spent thousands of $ over the yrs. They just trying to give you hope so you make further purchases just like the generics companies do.


How would the heat not affect anki's but they would effect the rips I was asking Ronnie about?

----------


## gixxerboy1

> I did order Gensci Jins online and it was before they got the govt on their ass. I just got the box and vials w/o BW. This was before I had heard of fake Jins being sold. I had gotten steriods from the same source and the stuff (Dianabol ) was good. I had been working out for a few years and reached a plateau on the bench(280#). After some online deca and the dbol I was doing 395# after a few cycles. Didn't know anything about PCT.
> 
> I got the last GenSci online and it came with Russian writing. The vials were wrapped in Russian newspaper. The sender was from the Eukraine. Do you think it was chinese? The site also sold me test which was good.


yes it was chinese. Gensci was a chinese company so thats where your source got them, if they were legit. And unless you bought a 200iu kit it should have come with water. All the 100iu kits came with amps of water in the boxes.

mine were coming direct from gensci not a "source"

----------


## gixxerboy1

> How would the heat not affect anki's but they would effect the rips I was asking Ronnie about?


rips are junk. it doesnt matter if they were shipped in a refrigerator plugged into a generator

----------


## Razor

> rips are junk. it doesnt matter if they were shipped in a refrigerator plugged into a generator


Ok11

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

> If anki was selling legit.then should this heat issue also effect them as well and make them go bad?


*Like marcus stated, the whole heat causing Gh to go bad seems odd if some are receiving good GH in the summer months. It should ruin all batches if it ruined one! And like Sheven stated, the ice packs would turn to water in a day. So even if the ice packs were sealed like the old jintopin's gixxerboy1 use to receive by mail, it would be useless because they would be in hot water which would also ruin them and then you have the risk of them leaking. Therefore, all GH, whether it be generic or pharm grade would be destoyed when shipped in the heat if in fact the heat really could ruin it.*

----------


## gixxerboy1

Ronnie, just to clarify it wasnt actual ice. It was those cold packs that go in a freezer. But i agree it would only keep them cold so long

----------


## Razor

> Like marcus stated, the whole heat causing Gh to go bad seems odd if some are receiving good GH in the summer months. It should ruin all batches if it ruined one! And like Sheven stated, the ice packs would turn to water in a day. So even if the ice packs were sealed like the old jintopin's gixxerboy1 use to receive by mail, it would be useless because they would be in hot water which would also ruin them and then you have the risk of them leaking. Therefore, all GH, whether it be generic or pharm grade would be destoyed when shipped in the heat if in fact the heat really could ruin it.


Well never buying gh in the summer again..thx man

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

Come on guys really?

Do you actually believe that all of a sudden there's a problem with only one company's Gh degrading before it's reconstituted during shipment of summer months?

Unless it sits in the cargo compartment of a plane or a warehouse at well over 100F for an extended period of time it shouldn't be an issue at all. 

I know for a fact I've received several Gh shipments that were shipped during summer months that were not packed on ice that were 100% legit real Gh and i can post up bloodwork to prove it. Elevated GH serum and IGF to me are pretty conclusive.

Sorry, but I'm calling bs on this much gh from only this one manufacturer all being bunk and the only brand that degrades during shipment when most others are shipped the exact same way.....

And the only thing that could keep a Gh shipment even remotely cold during shipment would be dry ice, as everybody else already said any kind of ice pack or whatever would melt long before an international shipment could be delivered.

----------


## swithuk

> I'm not buying into the heat destroying the gh from ankie. I've brought from then for yrs and many times in the height of summer. Reading Nancys emails its obvious she knows she's been busted selling fake. Do you still trust then to buy more? I don't and I've spent thousands of $ over the yrs. They just trying to give you hope so you make further purchases just like the generics companies do.


if you feel sure nancys at fault .... then is it worthwhile trying to bypass her and contact another rep at the company ? in the hope that not all their reps are selling snides , as my options are limited

----------


## marcus300

> if you feel sure nancys at fault .... then is it worthwhile trying to bypass her and contact another rep at the company ? in the hope that not all their reps are selling snides , as my options are limited


Ankie are selling fakes, they are selectively scamming why would I risk my money again. I've done this before with generic were I try and convince myself I can get pharm gh at a fraction of the cost. I won't be buying anything from ankie again they have turned bad. Have you read the emails from her to Ronnie they are laughable and without doubt you can tell she knew all about this, the heat destroying it is bullshit, they just tested the same batch is bullshit.

It's over find a new source but be very careful......

----------


## baseline_9

> Ankie are selling fakes, they are selectively scamming why would I risk my money again. I've done this before with generic were I try and convince myself I can get pharm gh at a fraction of the cost. I won't be buying anything from ankie again they have turned bad. Have you read the emails from her to Ronnie they are laughable and without doubt you can tell she knew all about this, the heat destroying it is bullshit, they just tested the same batch is bullshit.
> 
> It's over find a new source but be very careful......


I was under the impression that ansomone was the last chance of good cheap GH.... Full stop!

----------


## swithuk

> Ankie are selling fakes, they are selectively scamming why would I risk my money again. I've done this before with generic were I try and convince myself I can get pharm gh at a fraction of the cost. I won't be buying anything from ankie again they have turned bad. Have you read the emails from her to Ronnie they are laughable and without doubt you can tell she knew all about this, the heat destroying it is bullshit, they just tested the same batch is bullshit.
> 
> It's over find a new source but be very careful......


ok understood . yes i do feel as though iam trying to convince myself / remain hopeful .
i will look into new source however i had done that and had settled with ankebio .......

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Ankie are selling fakes, they are selectively scamming why would I risk my money again. I've done this before with generic were I try and convince myself I can get pharm gh at a fraction of the cost. I won't be buying anything from ankie again they have turned bad. Have you read the emails from her to Ronnie they are laughable and without doubt you can tell she knew all about this, the heat destroying it is bullshit, they just tested the same batch is bullshit.
> 
> It's over find a new source but be very careful......


Agreed! They were pressured by you and whoever else pressed the issue. I'm sure they have been reading all of this. Heat problem a convenient answer. It takes away any 
Manufacturing flaws away from them, blame it on the heat. It's a weak answer and in there eyes the best one they can come up with.

----------


## richieu11

> there is no fishing for sources.
> And yes yours were from china. You may have not gotten them from there but thats were the original purchaser got them


not fishing for sources. I have a couple places that I would like to check though. Is there anyone I can email or pm about this? If they have dealed with these places before and if it seems to be legit?

----------


## Sheven

Truth be told Anke knows you ain't gonna analyze the product anyway...

If you want to analyze your GH costs 700 Eur / batch and it will tell you absolutely all details regarding (peptide fingerprint, n-terminus,c-terminus,maldi-ds,sds-page,dimmer,peptide coverage). anyone interested let me know and i will be more than happy to forward you to the guy in Munich science cluster that can analyze that.

----------


## gixxerboy1

> not fishing for sources. I have a couple places that I would like to check though. Is there anyone I can email or pm about this? If they have dealed with these places before and if it seems to be legit?


you cant be pm till you have been here 30 days and have 50 post.

----------


## richieu11

> you cant be pm till you have been here 30 days and have 50 post.


lol...so I guess its time to post away eh?

----------


## richieu11

still doesnt answer my questions though.

just trying to make the right choice ya know?

----------


## gixxerboy1

what questions of your arent answered?

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

> Well never buying gh in the summer again..thx man


 *Queefer over at profesisonal muscle recently tested ansomone and is had no GH at all in it at all as I stated in a prior post. After that he tested hyges and it was real GH. I also have used real hyges once in the past with good results. Point being, if the heat was what made his ansomone go bad it should have also have made his hyges go bad as well. I am not convinced heat has anything to do with it because my wife use to work at a pharmaceutical plant. She feels that once the GH powder is properly sealed, the heat during travel should not hurt it unless it was left out directly in the sun. If so, then why are we just being notified of this? Hopefully nancy will stand by their products and make things right with us as they have offered. Not a lot more I can say. I just want what's best for everyone. Here's a couple of links below everyone should read if it's not already been posted in the past- BY RONNY TOBER 2005

This is an article he wrote for a bodybuilding magazine in 2005. The information is therefore a bit outdated but it contains useful information and information about this subject can be found in these articles. Human growth hormone (somatropin) is widely used outside of normal medical situations. For example, in bodybuilding it is taken to increase muscle mass and decrease body fat. Being so far removed from the hands of legitimate pharmaceutical distributors, doctors, and pharmacists, preparations of doubtful origin and low quality frequently find their way to the (black) market.

In the last few years,counterfeited, contaminated, and very poor quality somatropin have been located and analysed, both in the European Union and in the United States. There were many counterfeited preparations found, some of which instead of the expected recombinant growth hormone rhGH, contained the pregnancy hormone HCG. Other illegally prepared preparations contained growth hormone from human cadavers (pituitary glands), veterinary somatropin variants, vitamins, insulin,etc. Looking at the more than 50 proven cases of the transmission of the Creutzfeldt Jakob Disease by contaminated growth hormone preparations, mainly during the 1980’s [1-4],we feel people should be urgently warned before using questionable growth hormone preparations [5-9]. These article below take a close look at the various manufacturing techniques used to make growth hormone drugs, placing a strong emphasis on how to identify quality preparations from those of a more questionable nature.*

http://juicedmuscle.net/category/real-fake

http://juicedmuscle.net/content/growth-hormone-part-2

----------


## DanB

I have ecieved more kits recently and they g2g, I think its a little far to say they selling fakes, to some people yes it is possible

But to everybody, no they are not

----------


## BigBadWolf

> I have ecieved more kits recently and they g2g, I think its a little far to say they selling fakes, to some people yes it is possible
> 
> But to everybody, no they are not


Well if they are selective scamming it will just be a matter of time before you get fuc-ked.

----------


## DanB

> Well if they are selective scamming it will just be a matter of time before you get fuc-ked.


I doubt it, they a business and it all about the $$$$$, they make more from me by selling legit then scamming me and losing my custom

----------


## BigBadWolf

> I doubt it, they a business and it all about the $$$$$, they make more from me by selling legit then scamming me and losing my custom


I hope your right.

----------


## marcus300

> I hope your right.


I can categorically state that Ankie are selling fakes/copies. Now you can all try and convince yourself you have real gh from them but the kits they are currently selling to the public are fake/copies without doubt.

Ive tried convincing myself I have real gh yrs ago with generics but I wont be spending and wasting anymore money with Ankie. If your happy with them then by all means you carry on but I know they are selling fakes and so does Ronnie.

Ive also had another complaint this week about them which isn't good and the ones what Ive recently started are not gh its something else, I will update once Ive been using them for a bit longer but I just know they are not gh.

I can also say the copies pf anansome what some Chinese company are selling are coming from Ankie, the boxes are exactly the same and the money gets transfered to the same area and bank. I am afraid to say that they have gone back to scamming the public. Just read into the emails Nancy replies to Ronnie with its obvious she knows and she knows she's been caught, wouldn't surprise me if she goes missing and a new contact appears for the sales to the public.

----------


## DanB

> I can categorically state that Ankie are selling fakes/copies. Now you can all try and convince yourself you have real gh from them but the kits they are currently selling to the public are fake/copies without doubt.
> 
> Ive tried convincing myself I have real gh yrs ago with generics but I wont be spending and wasting anymore money with Ankie. If your happy with them then by all means you carry on but I know they are selling fakes and so does Ronnie.
> 
> Ive also had another complaint this week about them which isn't good and the ones what Ive recently started are not gh its something else, I will update once Ive been using them for a bit longer but I just know they are not gh.
> 
> I can also say the copies pf anansome what some Chinese company are selling are coming from Ankie, the boxes are exactly the same and the money gets transfered to the same area and bank. I am afraid to say that they have gone back to scamming the public. Just read into the emails Nancy replies to Ronnie with its obvious she knows and she knows she's been caught, wouldn't surprise me if she goes missing and a new contact appears for the sales to the public.


every single kit?

i feel alot of experienced gh users would disagree if you claim that

ie1 aka nancy is not their only rep

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> I can categorically state that Ankie are selling fakes/copies. Now you can all try and convince yourself you have real gh from them but the kits they are currently selling to the public are fake/copies without doubt.
> 
> Ive tried convincing myself I have real gh yrs ago with generics but I wont be spending and wasting anymore money with Ankie. If your happy with them then by all means you carry on but I know they are selling fakes and so does Ronnie.
> 
> Ive also had another complaint this week about them which isn't good and the ones what Ive recently started are not gh its something else, I will update once Ive been using them for a bit longer but I just know they are not gh.
> 
> I can also say the copies pf anansome what some Chinese company are selling are coming from Ankie, the boxes are exactly the same and the money gets transfered to the same area and bank. I am afraid to say that they have gone back to scamming the public. Just read into the emails Nancy replies to Ronnie with its obvious she knows and she knows she's been caught, wouldn't surprise me if she goes missing and a new contact appears for the sales to the public.


Marcus: seems to me you have done everything you can to let everyone on this site know about this. People want something so bad they will keep trying to justify or prove to themselves it's good. It's kind of like saying your wife or girlfriend is cheating, now it's your move. It's to much money and risk at possible danger to what's going in your body to risk it. We are all here to learn, exchange info and share personal knowledge. I'm a novice at this game, but then when I speak with people I know at the gym it seems like I'm a genius compared to them. Lol - That's just from what I have learned from you guys. That just tells me how many people are careless about what they put in there body or even willing to learn when there are sites like this. This may seem like I'm babbling here, but I keep seeing people attempting to prove Ankei is selling quality to general public. There's either a hidden agenda to prove Ankei is good or they just like to argue.

----------


## DanB

do you think that marcus is the only person on this forum that speaks to anki reps

i know for a fact that there is legit hgh still going out, i cant say every kit is real but nobody can say every single kit is fake either

several members other then myself have also recieved legit kits

how can you bring up adgendas? do you have one to say it is all fake? works both ways

and i have 3 other legit pharm brands available to makes so no different if anki do eventually burn me i still have a source for my gh regardless

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> do you think that marcus is the only person on this forum that speaks to anki reps
> 
> i know for a fact that there is legit hgh still going out, i cant say every kit is real but nobody can say every single kit is fake either
> 
> several members other then myself have also recieved legit kits
> 
> how can you bring up adgendas? do you have one to say it is all fake? works both ways
> 
> and i have 3 other legit pharm brands available to makes so no different if anki do eventually burn me i still have a source for my gh regardless


I saw your post about Nancy not being the only rep after my post. Up to this point her name is the only one that has come up that I have seen, but there's a lot of posts and I probably missed seeing others. Guess that makes it more complicated. Then Ankei has internal issues or is part of her situation ?

----------


## BigBadWolf

> I can categorically state that Ankie are selling fakes/copies. Now you can all try and convince yourself you have real gh from them but the kits they are currently selling to the public are fake/copies without doubt.
> 
> Ive tried convincing myself I have real gh yrs ago with generics but I wont be spending and wasting anymore money with Ankie. If your happy with them then by all means you carry on but I know they are selling fakes and so does Ronnie.
> 
> Ive also had another complaint this week about them which isn't good and the ones what Ive recently started are not gh its something else, I will update once Ive been using them for a bit longer but I just know they are not gh.
> 
> I can also say the copies pf anansome what some Chinese company are selling are coming from Ankie, the boxes are exactly the same and the money gets transfered to the same area and bank. I am afraid to say that they have gone back to scamming the public. Just read into the emails Nancy replies to Ronnie with its obvious she knows and she knows she's been caught, wouldn't surprise me if she goes missing and a new contact appears for the sales to the public.


Trust me I believe you. I will not be ordering from them. Unless things chance and I hear it from you. I also believe that others that are taking a stand against you are A) trying to convince theirselves they got real gh or B) don't want to lose money reshipping to us here in the US.

----------


## marcus300

> Trust me I believe you. I will not be ordering from them. Unless things chance and I hear it from you. I also believe that others that are taking a stand against you are A) trying to convince theirselves they got real gh or B) don't want to lose money reshipping to us here in the US.


Exactly, I use to convince myself about generics for years lol. Once they start selling fakes and copies I won't trust then again. Not a chance will they have my money again , I've lost faith totally but what do you expect from China anyway.

----------


## marcus300

> every single kit?
> 
> i feel alot of experienced gh users would disagree if you claim that
> 
> ie1 aka nancy is not their only rep


Thet selling fakes and copies, if people want to carry on playing roulette weather they get real or fake that's up to them.

I know there are more reps for the public sales lol

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Thet selling fakes and copies, if people want to carry on playing roulette weather they get real or fake that's up to them.
> 
> I know there are more reps for the public sales lol


That's the way I have always felt, not risking it. Spent $ in the past, while I'm telling the guy that I bought it from that it's crap, he's telling me everybody loves it. Of course he is because he's sitting on a ton of the crap. 
Re: reps, Yes I understand the independent sales reps. Lol

----------


## swithuk

i have to say ive been running it for about 25 days now (direct from nancy) . at 5i.u e.d and now 6i.u e.d . ive not really noticed anything . certainly no sides at all ! 

i do feel more positive and abit more energy and some water retention so id say theres _something_ in there but it could be placebo 

is there anyway nancy is doing this without anke knowing ? if as you say she may move on ? any value in approaching another rep ? or does she run the department ?

this forum is the reason i went with ansomone so id be a fool if i continued . it puts me in a very difficult position

----------


## swithuk

> do you think that marcus is the only person on this forum that speaks to anki reps
> 
> i know for a fact that there is legit hgh still going out, i cant say every kit is real but nobody can say every single kit is fake either
> 
> several members other then myself have also recieved legit kits
> 
> how can you bring up adgendas? do you have one to say it is all fake? works both ways
> 
> and i have 3 other legit pharm brands available to makes so no different if anki do eventually burn me i still have a source for my gh regardless


i know what your saying 
im buying from her as well and im not noticing much after 25 days (i know its not long )
do you think theres any value in approaching the other reps there ? 

for me *if* they are selectively scamming then it changes my opinion of the whole company . seems crazy they would do this as its bad for business but how else can you explain similar experiences/results of credible people ? 

are you going to change brands as a result of this ? would you move to gensci ?

----------


## BigBadWolf

Why anyone would continue placing orders with a company they believe at best is selective scamming people is beyond me.

----------


## gixxerboy1

> i know what your saying 
> im buying from her as well and im not noticing much after 25 days (i know its not long )
> do you think theres any value in approaching the other reps there ? 
> 
> for me *if* they are selectively scamming then it changes my opinion of the whole company . seems crazy they would do this as its bad for business but how else can you explain similar experiences/results of credible people ? *select scamming is the easiest way to make $$. For every 1 person who claims its bad 10 will say it great. Also if you receive 10 kits and 2 are junk how would you ever know or tell*
> 
> are you going to change brands as a result of this ? would you move to gensci ?*gensci's are very hard to get*


bold

----------


## swithuk

> bold


thanks 
yes your right . im still coming to terms with it i guess . its a hard pill to swallow even so ! although following that logic it is bad for business long term as ultimately people will switch 

*its weird though as i do feel something for sure* .abit more positive , abit more energy and abit of water retention - thats it . but at 6i.u a day i should be feeling alot more 

yes i know its hard to get hold of . but im based in u.k so its easier and i dont have any options

----------


## Swifto

> thanks 
> yes your right . im still coming to terms with it i guess . its a hard pill to swallow even so ! although following that logic it is bad for business long term as ultimately people will switch 
> 
> *its weird though as i do feel something for sure* .abit more positive , abit more energy and abit of water retention - thats it . but at 6i.u a day i should be feeling alot more 
> 
> yes i know its hard to get hold of . but im based in u.k so its easier and i dont have any options


Did you order direct from the factory (Nancy)?

----------


## swithuk

> Did you order direct from the factory (Nancy)?


thanks

yeah 100% direct from nancy

----------


## BigBadWolf

> thanks
> yes your right . im still coming to terms with it i guess . its a hard pill to swallow even so ! although following that logic it is bad for business long term as ultimately people will switch
> 
> its weird though as i do feel something for sure .abit more positive , abit more energy and abit of water retention - thats it . but at 6i.u a day i should be feeling alot more
> 
> yes i know its hard to get hold of . but im based in u.k so its easier and i dont have any options


Probably some type of a peptide

----------


## Swifto

> thanks
> 
> yeah 100% direct from nancy


Have you used Ansomone before from the same source?

What sides, if any, do you have?

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> is there anyway nancy is doing this without anke knowing ?


Highly doubtful. Payment for their GH is still being wired to the same bank with the same acct # that it always has.

----------


## swithuk

> Have you used Ansomone before from the same source?
> 
> What sides, if any, do you have?


no, ive not used ansomone before . been running it about 25 days 6i.u e.d
ive not used g.h for about 4 years 

no sides at all -but i feel abit more positive , abit more energy and abit of water retention -

----------


## swithuk

> Highly doubtful. Payment for their GH is still being wired to the same bank with the same acct # that it always has.


yes . good point

----------


## Sheven

> Highly doubtful. Payment for their GH is still being wired to the same bank with the same acct # that it always has.


Right. never a email girls would be able to pull anything off without the support of a manager

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

> I have ecieved more kits recently and they g2g, I think its a little far to say they selling fakes, to some people yes it is possible
> 
> But to everybody, no they are not


*Well, if they are selling fakes to some people then then they are selling fakes- period! Some of what people are getting is not good due to either the environment it's being shipped or a selective scamming ring. I know that another moderator on this board told me that he recently got bad 4iu and 6iu vials of ansomone but the 10ml vials he used were good. Is that not odd? He asked if maybe the 4 and 6 iu vials were being made for bodybuilders and the 10 iu vials for their local hospitals/doctors offices. My response to his question was no because the good ones I got first time around came in 4iu vials. The bad ones I tried recently were both 4iu vials and 6 iu vials. So, I do not believe they are making 10 iu vials specifically for doctors/hospital then selling 4 and 6iu vials to bodybuilders. Although on my last order I asked specifically that all my vials be 6iu and they came in both 4 and 6iu vials and it was the 4iu vials that would not mix and both were shipped at the same time in the same environment. I found that whole ordeal odd along with being ignored repeatedly by ankebio about the issues I was having! Ankebio has finally offer to replace my order but the weather is still hot so I see no point until it cools down if heat could in fact destroy it because why would it not happen again? What a mess! 

NOTE: There is only one contact (Nancy) and their sales reps on various boards are purchasing from Nancy as well just like everyone else and then re-selling it on the black market for a nice profit. Nancy may be more than one person but it's still the same bank account your money must be transferred to and they will not ship directly to the U.S.*

----------


## swithuk

the vials im suspicious of are also 10i.u and i agree, if they are selling fakes it does not matter how small an amount it is 

i still hope that it is some sort of production or quality control problem that has been resolved

i agree with you about nancy being the head of their department as i tried a couple of their other email addresses (not the sales ones ) and i got an angry/frustrated email back from her straight away , see below.... 

As there so lots of FAKE HGH and FAKE ANSOMONE, even FAKE AnkeBio on internets, we AnkeBio only guarantee our ANSOMONE/HGH with best quality to those who make orders directly from us. Thanks! Regards, Nancy

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

> the vials im suspicious of are also 10i.u and i agree, if they are selling fakes it does not matter how small an amount it is 
> 
> i still hope that it is some sort of production or quality control problem that has been resolved
> 
> i agree with you about nancy being the head of their department as i tried a couple of their other email addresses (not the sales ones ) and i got an angry/frustrated email back from her straight away , see below.... 
> 
> As there so lots of FAKE HGH and FAKE ANSOMONE, even FAKE AnkeBio on internets, we AnkeBio only guarantee our ANSOMONE/HGH with best quality to those who make orders directly from us. Thanks! Regards, Nancy


*I wonder if the blatant counterfeit ansomone that has fake flip offs, serial numbers, etc are being sold for the same price to sales reps as the ones that look authenic according to the AnkeBio website?*

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Well, if they are selling fakes to some people then then they are selling fakes- period! Some of what people are getting is not good due to either the environment it's being shipped or a selective scamming ring. I know that another moderator on this board told me that he recently got bad 4iu and 6iu vials of ansomone but the 10ml vials he used were good. Is that not odd? He asked if maybe the 4 and 6 iu vials were being made for bodybuilders and the 10 iu vials for their local hospitals/doctors offices. My response to his question was no because the good ones I got first time around came in 4iu vials. The bad ones I tried recently were both 4iu vials and 6 iu vials. So, I do not believe they are making 10 iu vials specifically for doctors/hospital then selling 4 and 6iu vials to bodybuilders. Although on my last order I asked specifically that all my vials be 6iu and they came in both 4 and 6iu vials and it was the 4iu vials that would not mix and both were shipped at the same time in the same environment. I found that whole ordeal odd along with being ignored repeatedly by ankebio about the issues I was having! Ankebio has finally offer to replace my order but the weather is still hot so I see no point until it cools down if heat could in fact destroy it because why would it not happen again? What a mess!
> 
> NOTE: There is only one contact (Nancy) and their sales reps on various boards are purchasing from Nancy as well just like everyone else and then re-selling it on the black market for a nice profit. Nancy may be more than one person but it's still the same bank account your money must be transferred to and they will not ship directly to the U.S.


Thanks for clearing that up regarding Nancy.

----------


## marcus300

> *I wonder if the blatant counterfeit ansomone that has fake flip offs, serial numbers, etc are being sold for the same price to sales reps as the ones that look authenic according to the AnkeBio website?*


The fake ankie site are selling identical Anasome, same box, same leaflet and same bottles. The money is sent to the same bank same area. The fakes are coming out of ankie they are too good not to be and to many circumstances.

Why would ankie a professional company ignore various emails saying the gh is bunk, why only after threatening to plaster this information over the bb forums does she answer back? No professional outfit would ignore email they would standby the product 100% .

They selectively scamming the public , I just hope some of mine are real and not all are bunk....

----------


## swithuk

sorry if im being naive but ...

isnt there something everyone can do collectively (apart from not buying their product ) . club together to pay for a definitive lab test that can be made public ? put out the info on the internet and to relevant press ? as well as all the boards / forums ? someone puts an email stating the facts of what they are doing that everyone sends in volume to all ankebio emails, their competitors etc . - an organised response as opposed to a large number of individuals complaining 

so they dont get away with it and stop doing it -

----------


## marcus300

> sorry if im being naive but ...
> 
> isnt there something everyone can do collectively (apart from not buying their product ) . club together to pay for a definitive lab test that can be made public ? put out the info on the internet and to relevant press ? as well as all the boards / forums ? someone puts an email stating the facts of what they are doing that everyone sends in volume to all ankebio emails, their competitors etc . - an organised response as opposed to a large number of individuals complaining 
> 
> so they dont get away with it and stop doing it -


Wasn't there a new member from another board who recently posted his bloodwork showing his Anasome were fake? 

You can test if the hormone is active that's the problem which they know all about. Best bet go off results don't run anything else except gh and watch for results etc

----------


## dec11

bloody hell, and the HGH minefield gets deeper lol. i'll be starting back on the greek stuff i was on 2yrs ago, it seemed fine but dunno where to turn once it runs out  :Frown:

----------


## DanB

> *
> 
> NOTE: There is only one contact (Nancy) and their sales reps on various boards are purchasing from Nancy as well just like everyone else and then re-selling it on the black market for a nice profit. Nancy may be more than one person but it's still the same bank account your money must be transferred to and they will not ship directly to the U.S.*


Jerry, and at least 2 other ie'' email addys for reps that I am aware of, not including Nancy

----------


## BigBadWolf

> Jerry, and at least 2 other ie'' email addys for reps that I am aware of, not including Nancy


Jerry and nancy don't sound like chinese names to me. Lol

----------


## marcus300

Lmfao

----------


## DanB

> Jerry and nancy don't sound like chinese names to me. Lol


haha their surname is a little more along the lines of what you would expect

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> Jerry and nancy don't sound like chinese names to me. Lol


Lmao. I think the only names chinese women have are Anne, Nancy, Kristy, Jane, and Linda.  :Smilie:

----------


## EasyDoesIt

They were probably imported from U.S. just to communicate with all those independent reps. There called Buffers, like in the Godfather movie, we got a lot of buffers. I guess a little comedy lightens up the whole mess. But not really for those that have $$ in.

----------


## Far from massive

Remember the story a while back where the Chinese were having the women clean I phone screens with Ethyl Acetate (without gloves or respirators no less) and they were dropping like flies with total liver shutdown.... when one would drop they would just get another one to take her place. They were replacing them like nascar racers replace tires by the time the story broke they had 67 known to be hospitalyzed with liver failure and 7 dead who knows how many there really were that were never accounted for. If not for the story breaking they would still be doing it today, they knew damn well that Ethyl Acetate is extremly toxic but they also knew it worked really well to clean screens and there were plenty of "Linda's" and "Jane's" to fill the empty seats.

----------


## BigBadWolf

> Remember the story a while back where the Chinese were having the women clean I phone screens with Ethyl Acetate (without gloves or respirators no less) and they were dropping like flies with total liver shutdown.... when one would drop they would just get another one to take her place. They were replacing them like nascar racers replace tires by the time the story broke they had 67 known to be hospitalyzed with liver failure and 7 dead who knows how many there really were that were never accounted for. If not for the story breaking they would still be doing it today, they knew damn well that Ethyl Acetate is extremly toxic but they also knew it worked really well to clean screens and there were plenty of "Linda's" and "Jane's" to fill the empty seats.


And Jerry's.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Remember the story a while back where the Chinese were having the women clean I phone screens with Ethyl Acetate (without gloves or respirators no less) and they were dropping like flies with total liver shutdown.... when one would drop they would just get another one to take her place. They were replacing them like nascar racers replace tires by the time the story broke they had 67 known to be hospitalyzed with liver failure and 7 dead who knows how many there really were that were never accounted for. If not for the story breaking they would still be doing it today, they knew damn well that Ethyl Acetate is extremly toxic but they also knew it worked really well to clean screens and there were plenty of "Linda's" and "Jane's" to fill the empty seats.


That's very sad to hear, which shows you that the ones that consider themselves "Elite" have a slavery mentality. I do not want anyone here to be offended because I'm sure there are people on this forum that are of Asian heritage, as there are bad apples in every culture. My heritage has plenty so I'm not trying to speak harshly on Chinese because I have Chinese friends that are great people. This is probably more info than I should share being on a forum that I like to keep my profile anonymous. I have worked in an industry where I dealt with a lot of Asian Strippers and no they do not get my money, I get there's, but the Asian women and not just Chinese, but Fillipina, Japanese etc. are all pretty ruthless and I can say from watching them operate that "Money is there GOD" and to a point that they can't just do the deal and collect there overpriced service, but fuc...g people over in the process seems to be a necessity to make them feel like they just had one up on the customer!!!!!!!!
There's my 2 cents..

----------


## swithuk

> That's very sad to hear, which shows you that the ones that consider themselves "Elite" have a slavery mentality. I do not want anyone here to be offended because I'm sure there are people on this forum that are of Asian heritage, as there are bad apples in every culture. My heritage has plenty so I'm not trying to speak harshly on Chinese because I have Chinese friends that are great people. This is probably more info than I should share being on a forum that I like to keep my profile anonymous. I have worked in an industry where I dealt with a lot of Asian Strippers and no they do not get my money, I get there's, but the Asian women and not just Chinese, but Fillipina, Japanese etc. are all pretty ruthless and I can say from watching them operate that "Money is there GOD" and to a point that they can't just do the deal and collect there overpriced service, but fuc...g people over in the process seems to be a necessity to make them feel like they just had one up on the customer!!!!!!!!
> There's my 2 cents..


i wish i had your job !

----------


## swithuk

received this explanation.......

First, all the ANSOMONE form us AnkeBio are manufactured in the same production lines, and all the products should be tested by more than 50 examinations in our Quality Control Center. Only qualified to all the specifications, we can release them and sell them. There is no reason and necessary for us to offer some real and some fake.

Regarding to the posts on some boards, we have done some research and talked with some people. We can give the following declaration and explanation:

1st. case:
As the inner and outer packing of FAKE ANSOMONE are very similar to our real origianl products, some users could not idenfity which is FAKE and REAL, so they claimed after using FAKE one.
We have purchased some FAKE ANSOMONE on internet, and after testing them in our Test Cencer, we confirm that there is nothing in them even some harmful chemical ingredients found. So when people use these FAKE ANSOMONE, they will feel something wrong, but they did not notice these are FAKE

2nd. case:
Few people on boards said that there was nothing in our ANSOMONE, it is not the truth.
Because we have communicated with them and re-tested in our side, and found that they did not trans-ship and store products in good way. As you know, HGH is a kind of high bio-activity product, which must be away from light and heat resource such as sunlight or hot engines especally in Summer. Unfortnately, they did not notice that, which made HGH bio-activity decreased even destroyed. That is reason why some so good, some not so good.

3rd. case:
As we know, the blood test after HGH injection could check HGH direct effection, which is normal way but not unique way. If there is change in blood test, it shows that you are sensitive to this HGH (vial/batch); if there is no obvious change in blood test, it does not mean the HGH is FAKE, and it only shows that you are not sensitive to this HGH (vial/batch) at that time. The sensitive state of the body varis from time to time. For example, in the same cold weather, sometime we feel well, but sometimes we will be Susceptible to colds.

The blood test only shows pharmacodynamic, not shows efficacy.

Hope these information is helpful for you!

Thank you for your time!

Regards,
Yours Sincerely,
Nancy

----------


## marcus300

What did you expect them to say, they never going to admit it that its their company what are selling fake gh to the public/bodybuilding community. Myself and Ronnie have recently had it more or less confirmed they are selling fakes. Can say much at the moment but they are selling fakes, its not the heat in transportation or your not sensitive to gh blood serum tests lol. They are selling fakes and have been caught.

Again like I've stated before if your happy with them and the results you carry on but I won't risk my money again to a company what are scamming/selling fakes....

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

> Regarding to the posts on some boards, we have done some research and talked with some people. We can give the following declaration and explanation:
> 
> 1st. case:
> We have purchased some FAKE ANSOMONE on internet, and after testing them in our Test Cencer, we confirm that there is nothing in them even some harmful chemical ingredients found. Regards,
> Yours Sincerely,
> Nancy


Now this is scary! Here's my question: What harmful chemical ingredients where found in some of the fake ANSOMONE tested by AnkeBio ?

----------


## swithuk

> What did you expect them to say, they never going to admit it that its their company what are selling fake gh to the public/bodybuilding community. Myself and Ronnie have recently had it more or less confirmed they are selling fakes. Can say much at the moment but they are selling fakes, its not the heat in transportation or your not sensitive to gh blood serum tests lol. They are selling fakes and have been caught.
> 
> Again like I've stated before if your happy with them and the results you carry on but I won't risk my money again to a company what are scamming/selling fakes....


I understand . I was just posting it for interests sake ....

Im not going to buy from them for a while . Im going to go for another brand . I hope i dont have the same problems !

----------


## swithuk

> Now this is scary! Here's my question: What harmful chemical ingredients where found in some of the fake ANSOMONE tested by AnkeBio ?


Yes that truly is a nightmare !
Im guessing she is referring to the u.g.l that supply fake g.h in general and put chems in to reproduce the side effects of good g.h so the customer believes they are real

----------


## EasyDoesIt

Took them that long with consistent pressure to come up with that BS! I'm not an expert, but the sensitivity line is a new one to me and probably any Anti-Aging doctor. Ronnie or Marcus: correct me if i'm wrong but would that be somewhat comparable to saying after injecting a fast acting testosterone that your test levels would not be up due to the fact that your sensitive to it? If you inject or take any type of drug it is going to be in your system wether it works or not. Probably not the greatest analogy but close enough. The question now is what are they going to do after being caught?

----------


## swithuk

yes im interested to see how it develops . i wont be buying from them for a while . 
they are certainly talking about it

----------


## marcus300

> I understand . I was just posting it for interests sake ....
> 
> Im not going to buy from them for a while . Im going to go for another brand . I hope i dont have the same problems !





> Yes that truly is a nightmare !
> Im guessing she is referring to the u.g.l that supply fake g.h in general and put chems in to reproduce the side effects of good g.h so the customer believes they are real





> Took them that long with consistent pressure to come up with that BS! I'm not an expert, but the sensitivity line is a new one to me and probably any Anti-Aging doctor. Ronnie or Marcus: correct me if i'm wrong but would that be somewhat comparable to saying after injecting a fast acting testosterone that your test levels would not be up due to the fact that your sensitive to it? If you inject or take any type of drug it is going to be in your system wether it works or not. Probably not the greatest analogy but close enough. The question now is what are they going to do after being caught?


The more they put things in writing the more they trip up lol

When the people contacted Ankie over issues with their HGH they said to all of them you will have send a sample bad for testing, but now suddenly they have all the batches to hand and have tested them. Doesn't that sound a bit suspect to you!

How do they know there is harmful chemicals in fake anasome? 

Why are the fakes coming from the same area, same bank ( different account) and why are they identical, same box and same leaflet. Does that sound suspect!

Now they are saying even if you have had a blood hgh serum test and its come back low that doesn't mean the gh is fake, it means you are not sensitive to their hgh, I have never heard anything like that coming from a company what suppose to supply 100% genuine hgh. Does this sound suspect to you?

There is also other information what myself and Ronnie have what more or less secures they are scamming but can not mention anything yet ( please don't PM asking for it)

I'm really disappointed in Ankie and how they have turned on us all, I just hope some of the boxes are genuine hgh and not all are fake what they have sent out recently....

----------


## itrain

what is the consensus on the jintropin (ukraine & russian) kits validated on jintropin website

Heard good new about hyges aswell

lets get some other chat going here Ronnie is getting his replacements so they are making good as far as we know

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## EasyDoesIt

> what is the consensus on the jintropin (ukraine & russian) kits validated on jintropin website
> 
> Heard good new about hyges aswell
> 
> lets get some other chat going here Ronnie is getting his replacements so they are making good as far as we know


I don't know about russian site, but I have used Jin from China in U.S. and it's junk. Just my experience. 

Not to question your comment, but does Ronnie know you are speaking on his behalf? I have not seen any posts from him regarding this. But maybe I missed something.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> what is the consensus on the jintropin (ukraine & russian) kits validated on jintropin website
> 
> Heard good new about hyges aswell
> 
> lets get some other chat going here Ronnie is getting his replacements so they are making good as far as we know


Most of the only legit jins that actually make it out of China (which isn't many) go to eastern Europe. Be very very careful dealing with those people though, they're a different breed, no offense. At least re GH and AAS........ 




> I don't know about russian site, but I have used Jin from China in U.S. and it's junk. Just my experience. 
> 
> Not to question your comment, but does Ronnie know you are speaking on his behalf? I have not seen any posts from him regarding this. But maybe I missed something.


Legit jins are real GH. But most people on our side of the world have never seen real jins any time recently. They're the most counterfeited and faked GH there is.

Ronnie already posted that his order was gonna be replaced.

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## EasyDoesIt

> Ronnie already posted that his order was gonna be replaced.


Good to hear that.
Thx

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## EasyDoesIt

Regarding the Jin: mine had authentication labels where you rolled your fingers over the sealed label and felt threads of fine string or something and there site showed the same placement where I felt them. This was suppose to authenticate them. It was junk. Authenticated junk! That was my first and last experience with Jin.

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## Ronnie Rowland

I just wanted everyone to know that the main reason for purchasing this last batch of ANSOMOME GH was not for me or my wife to to prepare for a bodybuilding show but rather to help my wife heal from her 2-level foot fusion surgery performed 13 weeks ago. She still cannot walk without crutches! According to my doctor I had 6 more months left to reach complete fusion at the time we bought the last batch of GH so I decided to stay on it for an additional 3 months and I was looking great as well. Money is tight right now but getting healthy again comes first so we can move on with our lives. I am back to work but she is not capable yet so we don't have money to waste. I am sure everyone understands. I know marcus does. 

8 months ago I had a 4- level fusion on my lower back in which they had to go in from the front the first day and put in cages, peek disk with instrumentation, and the second day they went in my lower back to put in bone taken out of both hips along with plates and screws for stabilization. I am very thankful that I received real ANSOMONE GH to help my bones heal but I am also very hurt she did not get real ANSOMONE GH to help her foot fuse together and it came from the same source. I have to admit I took it personal. She's the love of my life and I am sure everyone can relate. Her foot is still showing very poor bone density and this would not be the case if she had received the same kind of GH I got back in february from Ankie. 

Here's 2 photos of each of us showing the trauma we have both experienced this year. I am doing much better but she has a long ways to go. We have both been to hell and back this year as far as pain goes. I am glad they have offered to replace the order. I just hope it's real from here on out. 

*NOTE:* The two screws shown in my wifes post-op foot x-ray below are 4 inches in length. I had some really big screws put in my back as well. We have both been screwed-"literally" this year!

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## EasyDoesIt

Wow that's a rough time for both of you. When being a physical person, surgery at that level for both can be pretty depressing and draining. Stay positive and Hope the best for both of you. I'm sure you and your wife will push through and put yourself back in the shape your use to. Be Blessed!

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## DanB

> Most of the only legit jins that actually make it out of China (which isn't many) go to eastern Europe. Be very very careful dealing with those people though, they're a different breed, no offense. At least re GH and AAS........ 
> 
> 
> 
> Legit jins are real GH. * But most people on our side of the world have never seen real jins any time recently.* *They're the most counterfeited and faked GH there is.*
> 
> Ronnie already posted that his order was gonna be replaced.


Correct and because of this, people on that side of world also fake them due to the simple fact that people generally assume that once they get their connect in Ukraine, Russia etc that they are legit, sadly this not the case the vast majority of the time

My advise with Jintropin from my own personal experience is this, unless you have a personal relationship with somebody in the authorised and legit countries it is available, then dont bother risking it, and if you do happen to find the authorised resellers, there is limited counyties they will ship to, so again you need a friend, relative etc if this is a relatively new game for you to eliminate risks

You are far from new to this game so you already know this, I just gave mexperience for the benefit of the member you replied to orginally


G  :Wink:

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## swithuk

> Regarding the Jin: mine had authentication labels where you rolled your fingers over the sealed label and felt threads of fine string or something and there site showed the same placement where I felt them. This was suppose to authenticate them. It was junk. Authenticated junk! That was my first and last experience with Jin.


just to clarify . your jins serial numbers were authenticated on their website and the label had the threads ?

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## DanB

> just to clarify . your jins serial numbers were authenticated on their website and the label had the threads ?


Proceed with extreme caution when attempting to authenticate the brand in question, scammers have set up false sites for this purpose

G

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## EasyDoesIt

> just to clarify . your jins serial numbers were authenticated on their website and the label had the threads ?


Yes exactly! They are very technical on the net, obviously. They could have a jintropin.com site with pages not even viewed in there country. A complete different home page etc. I don't know how they do it for sure, but I'm just figuring the authentication site I reached authenticated products sold outside china or whatever. Also, they may have for legitimate purposes a log-in for docs etc. Type of home page, that log in takes to different site. This is speculation on how they do it, but I'm sure it was crap. NO DOUBT!

----------


## DanB

I know the site in question, it is not operated by GenSci

G

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> I know the site in question, it is not operated by GenSci
> 
> G


I still have product and box for reference. I will check and let you know what I come up with. I remember checking various sites. Could it be "A" site of Gensci? I am heading out till tomorrow. If you post and I do not get back to you, I will tomorrow.

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## DanB

it difficult to post on open forum as it borderline, pm if you are still unsure

G

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## Sgt. Hartman

I would be very very surprised if you can buy legit jins via the internet.......not worth the risk imo.

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## EasyDoesIt

> I would be very very surprised if you can buy legit jins via the internet.......not worth the risk imo.


Nope!! I agree Sgt. Who knows who operates those sites anyway? I recall some time back changing the .asp to .html on one site and a different page came up. If someone was operating another site using Gensci name even if site had a different web address, Gensci would put muscle on them or muscled into it. Anything really big in China that is borderline legal or opportunity to be illegal is not run by nice people. The film industry and many other major companies are Triad based. May sound far fetched, but believe what you want.

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## DanB

you can get legit jins online via email but it very difficult and they only ship domestically and theyare also based in eastern europe so logistics will make it impossible for most

and as far as Im aware, it is mainly phone/mail order, so I suppose technically your correct and my above statement is wrong and you bith are indeed cirrrct

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## swithuk

lets get some other chat going here Ronnie is getting his replacements so they are making good as far as we know[/QUOTE]



> the point is , it is far from an isolated incident. several independent people are having issues with their product not being the same as before

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## marcus300

I think the best and most productive way forward is to bypass ALL Chinese hgh weather jinss, ankie or generics no matter which country are selling them. It's obvious they have excellent counterfeit facilities and also chemicals what gives gh sides so I think your better off eliminating all Chinese hgh completely so the risk isn't there. obviously the cost is going to go up but at least you won't have all this Chinese worries to contend with.

----------


## swithuk

> I think the best and most productive way forward is to bypass ALL Chinese hgh weather jinss, ankie or generics no matter which country are selling them. It's obvious they have excellent counterfeit facilities and also chemicals what gives gh sides so I think your better off eliminating all Chinese hgh completely so the risk isn't there. obviously the cost is going to go up but at least you won't have all this Chinese worries to contend with.


i wasnt aware this was an option in the u.k ? i was going the chinese route as i assumed that getting g.h legitimately in the u.k wasnt possible or was prohibitively expensive .... ? what are the alternatives in the u.k ?

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> I think the best and most productive way forward is to bypass ALL Chinese hgh weather jinss, ankie or generics no matter which country are selling them. It's obvious they have excellent counterfeit facilities and also chemicals what gives gh sides so I think your better off eliminating all Chinese hgh completely so the risk isn't there. obviously the cost is going to go up but at least you won't have all this Chinese worries to contend with.



My intention for this post is not to offend anyone. I have been burnt on more than one occasion and hope that others do not by sharing my experience. ALSO, MY EXPERIENCE IS BASED ON U.S. ONLY, BUT I DON'T THINK CHINESE WILL DISCRIMINATE ON WHO THEY SCREW.
I have had some pm feedback due to the fact that I stated I went to the gensci site and Jin was authenticated, but it was junk. First let me state that I have friends that I basically got tired of telling them there kigs, generics, jins are crap. On top of the fact that there standing in front of me anywhere between 10-25 years younger than me and not as defined, vascular etc. using 2 to 3 times as much hgh and looking like crap. They can not get it through there head that the product they are purchasing at the Wallmart price can not be mfg. at a cost cheap enough to grease all the sales reps palms. Lol 
I'm the kind of person that will bluntly state, why do I look better than you then? I'm not pumping myself up, but I will call people on there ignorance, or blind faith. I know for a fact that some of the guys locally are purchasing the hgh I take for personal use and selling the JUNK!

I stated this before but not in as much depth: The Chinese are very technical on the net. I am pretty sure that all legal customers in Asia or elsewhere that they sell legally, would have a log-in as the home page, however they are doing it, really doesnt matter, they are! I do not know doctors here that purchase online, they have company reps and place purchase orders. The reality is that the site we are hitting is illegal sales site, It can not be purchased online legally. the chinese are aware of this and anyone purchasing has absolutely no one to complain to. Even if you went to Feds and said I am purchasing illegal products online and got fuc..ed they would say YES YOU DID. WE CAN NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT! The only people that will have legal problems are the ones purchasing. The chinese companies will basically be untouchable!
The site my junk product came from is the official Gensci site!
At the end of the day, the answer to this is going to keep rolling back to what Marcus states in the quote. 
Think about the fact that: Would you purchase 5,000.00 worth of product at a retail store knowing there is no warranty, guarantee or refund? I doubt it, so why take the risk?

----------


## marcus300

^^good post, agreed.

----------


## Swifto

Its strange.

For a very long time now (6 years+) I have had the same raw powder supplier out of China/HK and he's never ****ed me over once. If something went wrong, it gets replaced, simple. I know we arent talking the same amount of money here as replacing 500ius of HGH is far more than replacing 100g TE, but still. Some of the Chinese are straight up and seem ok in my experience.

However, I never sent more than I can afford to lose. At the end of the day, I send my money to someone I have never met and know very limited about so its always a risk. Every time you send funds its a risk.

I dont know anyone thats been in this game a long time and NEVER been ****ed or lost a penny. Its pretty much impossible.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Its strange.
> 
> For a very long time now (6 years+) I have had the same raw powder supplier out of China/HK and he's never ****ed me over once. If something went wrong, it gets replaced, simple. I know we arent talking the same amount of money here as replacing 500ius of HGH is far more than replacing 100g TE, but still. Some of the Chinese are straight up and seem ok in my experience.
> 
> However, I never sent more than I can afford to lose. At the end of the day, I send my money to someone I have never met and know very limited about so its always a risk. Every time you send funds its a risk.
> 
> I dont know anyone thats been in this game a long time and NEVER been ****ed or lost a penny. Its pretty much impossible.


I'm sure there are some people out there that do business on a much smaller scale than Ankie and reputation is a must for them to survive. Your probably dealing with a completely different level of supplier. Your supplier would of course be dealing with a different level of buyer. Automatically you would be considered a far more educated buyer, due to buying raw materials. Just for the sake of saying, I would guess your supplier is not dealing with the volume that Ankie is. Also, most of Ankies buyers, independent reps, whatever they would be referred to would probably be considered more educated also. But all of the people purchasing from reps would not be as educated of buyer, nor would the direct from Internet buyer be considered as educated of buyer. The uneducated buyer probably makes up 90 percent of the market even if you take into account a large percentage of small buyers buy from reps. Probably your supplier depends heavily on his manufacturing base to stay alive and would be on much smaller scale than Ankie. I'm just trying to put the difference together. Would you say that's fairly accurate?I really do not know. 
As I stated in another post, I have some very good friends that are of Asian culture. The ones that are ruthless are Crazy ruthless. Also, the hgh market is so astronomical at this point. Even capitalizing on it for 2 or 3 years at the type of volume Ankie is doing would be a giant figure in dollars. The average consumer out there poking around on the net does not know much.

----------


## Far from massive

Ronnie just wanted to say best wishes to both your wife and you on your recovery. Glad to hear you are back at work. And I hope your wifes job is on hold till she is well enough (was going to say strong enough, but was skared she might take it as an insult and hurt me ) as the only thing worse than being hurt is being hurt and unemployed. Really wish you two all the best, it must have been really tough both of you being down at the same time. 

Myself I had been having major problems with my left foot, it had been very painful and swollen for a month and I lost my job and health insurance 2 weeks ago, the good news is I worked on my feet and now its much better...so I will keep my fingers crossed that when I start another job it stays that way.

FFM

----------


## itrain

> you can get legit jins online via email but it very difficult and they only ship domestically and theyare also based in eastern europe so logistics will make it impossible for most
> 
> and as far as Im aware, it is mainly phone/mail order, so I suppose technically your correct and my above statement is wrong and you bith are indeed cirrrct


Yes this is what im reffering to and the kits are written in russian I have pictures if you would like to see. and many bros have used with success however its a very discreet source so not many use or know. 

Most people buying jins are getting fakes but that is because they are getting the HK or chinese kits with the chinese writing..

Easy does it.... THere are plenty of gensci sites you have to know which one is the legitimate to authenticate.

TBH after hearing more and more of this thread it just seems to me most people besides this one incident that I still dont truly believe soley because I along with many good bros have used anke for so many years seems to be like 1 big sourcing issue. Because i have seen top competitors using hyges, rips, novos, and thanks ...

Do some research and protect to ensure your investments build long term relationships treat this like a business as your source does. 


Swifto I agree 100% with what you said ...

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

> The more they put things in writing the more they trip up lol
> 
> When the people contacted Ankie over issues with their HGH they said to all of them you will have send a sample bad for testing, but now suddenly they have all the batches to hand and have tested them. Doesn't that sound a bit suspect to you!
> 
> How do they know there is harmful chemicals in fake anasome? 
> 
> Why are the fakes coming from the same area, same bank ( different account) and why are they identical, same box and same leaflet. Does that sound suspect!
> 
> Now they are saying even if you have had a blood hgh serum test and its come back low that doesn't mean the gh is fake, it means you are not sensitive to their hgh, I have never heard anything like that coming from a company what suppose to supply 100% genuine hgh. Does this sound suspect to you?
> ...


I ordered Jintropin online(made in China). When I got the box it was in Rusian. The vials were wraped in Rusian newspaper. That was al and the box was flatened. I supose for ease of shiping and customs. It was sent from the Eukraine. It was GenSci. I tested for hcg -neg. I had BW done and it was wel over the normal range of 0.0-2.9 58. I went to the genuine GenSci website and checked with their anticounterfeiting site(GenSci-china/gensci/fake.asp) they list many fake sites. I entered the numbers that were under the graphic cover on the anticounterfeiting seal. The numbers were OK. The response was this batch was for Rusian export.
There was also a Europharm logo on the box and I went to their website and checked them out. (Europharm.com/en/products/488/). The picture/graphic was identical to the product I received. So since there realy is a HGH named Jintropin still produced I hope I lucked out and received real HGH!
Sory to get you of the track of the discusion.

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

> The more they put things in writing the more they trip up lol
> 
> When the people contacted Ankie over issues with their HGH they said to all of them you will have send a sample bad for testing, but now suddenly they have all the batches to hand and have tested them. Doesn't that sound a bit suspect to you!
> 
> How do they know there is harmful chemicals in fake anasome? 
> 
> Why are the fakes coming from the same area, same bank ( different account) and why are they identical, same box and same leaflet. Does that sound suspect!
> 
> Now they are saying even if you have had a blood hgh serum test and its come back low that doesn't mean the gh is fake, it means you are not sensitive to their hgh, I have never heard anything like that coming from a company what suppose to supply 100% genuine hgh. Does this sound suspect to you?
> ...


I ordered Jintropin HGH online. When I got the package it was from the Eukraine. The box inside was in Rusian and the vials alone were wraped in Rusian newspaper. It was GenSci. I went to their genuine website (GenSci-China.com/gensci/fake.asp) and checked on the anticounterfeiting numbers under the graphite on the seal. They checked OK and said the batch was for Rusian export.
Also on the box was a logo from Europharm. I went there and checked the website. (Europharm.com/en/products/488/. The graphic was identical to what I received froman other website not asociated directly with either of the two. Since ther is a real Jintropin brand I hope I lucked out and got real HGH.!
Sorry to change the trend of the thread.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> I ordered Jintropin HGH online. When I got the package it was from the Eukraine. The box inside was in Rusian and the vials alone were wraped in Rusian newspaper. It was GenSci. I went to their genuine website (GenSci-China.com/gensci/fake.asp) and checked on the anticounterfeiting numbers under the graphite on the seal. They checked OK and said the batch was for Rusian export.
> Also on the box was a logo from Europharm. I went there and checked the website. (Europharm.com/en/products/488/. The graphic was identical to what I received froman other website not asociated directly with either of the two. Since ther is a real Jintropin brand I hope I lucked out and got real HGH.!
> Sorry to change the trend of the thread.


How long ago was that and did you notice anything from it?

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

> Its strange.
> 
> For a very long time now (6 years+) I have had the same raw powder supplier out of China/HK and he's never ****ed me over once. If something went wrong, it gets replaced, simple. I know we arent talking the same amount of money here as replacing 500ius of HGH is far more than replacing 100g TE, but still. Some of the Chinese are straight up and seem ok in my experience.
> 
> However, I never sent more than I can afford to lose. At the end of the day, I send my money to someone I have never met and know very limited about so its always a risk. Every time you send funds its a risk.
> 
> I dont know anyone thats been in this game a long time and NEVER been ****ed or lost a penny. Its pretty much impossible.


 Swifto brings up a very valid point. China has consistently supplied legit powders to make anabolics to several underground labs for years. So, I think it gets back to two things 1) With steroids you can tell really fast if they are of good quality, watered down, or counterfeit due to both results and side effects. 2) Blood test easily proves or disproves their legitimacy. 

On the other hand, Growth Hormone takes much longer for results to manifest themselves and lab test seems to not be as effective for judging their potency. Even AnkeBio stated that blood test only shows pharmacodynamic, not the actual legitimacy of GH. So like marcus stated you have to go by results you are getting or not geting. Afterall, that's how everyone makes judgement calls with various steroids as well. You can tell if it's good or not once you've had the real deal.

----------


## dec11

> i wasnt aware this was an option in the u.k ? i was going the chinese route as i assumed that getting g.h legitimately in the u.k wasnt possible or was prohibitively expensive .... ? what are the alternatives in the u.k ?


dont know if its still around but i used very good greek stuff 2yrs ago and i know from another guy that used to be on here that it was around Wales as well

----------


## swithuk

> dont know if its still around but i used very good greek stuff 2yrs ago and i know from another guy that used to be on here that it was around Wales as well


ok thanks

----------


## Swifto

> i wasnt aware this was an option in the u.k ? i was going the chinese route as i assumed that getting g.h legitimately in the u.k wasnt possible or was prohibitively expensive .... ? what are the alternatives in the u.k ?


The pharm grade GH I have seen in the UK is very expensive.

Get lots of Norditropin Simplexx, Genotropin also. However, it is faked as well.

----------


## swithuk

> The pharm grade GH I have seen in the UK is very expensive.
> 
> Get lots of Norditropin Simplexx, Genotropin also. However, it is faked as well.


thanks mate . 
i think theres loads of hgh clinics in the u.s but there dont seem to be any here . im sure we will follow them over the next few years.

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

I ordered GenSci Jintropin online. When I received the box it was in Russian. The vials were wrapped in Russian newspaper. It was shipped from the Eukraine. I went to the genuine GenSci website (GenSci-China.com/gensci/fake.asp) and checked on the anticounterfeiting site. The #'s under the scratch off graphite were OK. The batch was for export to Russia.
Also on the box was the logo for Europharm. I went there (Europharm.com/en/products/488/) and the graphis was identical to what I got.

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

I was able with a pin to pick threads out of sticker on box. This is another GOOD indicator no?

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> I was able with a pin to pick threads out of sticker on box. This is another GOOD indicator no?


The threads are under the label. The site should show what direction the threads are displayed. If you run your finger across the label, you will feel the direction threads are running and match direction of label. That's the verification of the product being legit. Removing them does not mean anything. I had same verification, but the product was JUNK!!! 
The point being as discussed by many on this thread is: Company builds a website, makes junk product, places authentication of the product consumer purchases. Problem being they make fake product and the verification makes the consumer believe that it's good. It only verifies that the company that made product proves that they made it. 
In a real situation using a Company like Eli Lilly, and I use there name because anyone in U.S. is familiar with them being a strong and reputable company. if they did the same type of verification, it would prove that they made the product and not some third party person or company is making fake products and using there name, packaging etc.

----------


## swithuk

TBH after hearing more and more of this thread it just seems to me most people besides this one incident that I still dont truly believe soley because I along with many good bros have used anke for so many years seems to be like 1 big sourcing issue. Because i have seen top competitors using hyges, rips, novos, and thanks ...


they may well have been good . however recently *something* has definitely changed . many independent *credible* people , here and other boards , who are running it are noticing a dramatic difference .its not just chat . 
me too , im running 6i.u e.d and im getting nothing ,no results and not even any sides 
dont get me wrong i hope the situation is rectified and they get things back on track but they have dropped the ball or worse its intentional, which would be very short sighted

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> TBH after hearing more and more of this thread it just seems to me most people besides this one incident that I still dont truly believe soley because I along with many good bros have used anke for so many years seems to be like 1 big sourcing issue. Because i have seen top competitors using hyges, rips, novos, and thanks ...
> 
> they may well have been good . however recently something has definitely changed . many independent credible people , here and other boards , who are running it are noticing a dramatic difference .its not just chat .
> me too , im running 6i.u e.d and im getting nothing ,no results and not even any sides
> dont get me wrong i hope the situation is rectified and they get things back on track but they have dropped the ball or worse its intentional, which would be very short sighted


Hey Bud: how do you know top competitors were using Rips etc.? Not to deny they were, but did a supplier tell you or the person themselves. Also, sometimes guys will use half pharm and half generic etc. for money issues. 
My point is, pro's etc are pretty knowledgable or at least informed about better products and there source will get them quality product. It's kind of like the bodybuilding mags using Pro's to endorse there products as if they obtained there physique on Protein Powder, fat burners etc. Just something to think about. Unfortunately this stuff not like available retail consumer products that you can switch to any brand you want. When I got screwed on mine, I just quit using hgh. Just felt I'm not beating my head against the wall and chance blowing money again. Prob a year later obtained pharm. still would not use if I didn't. Pro's have to have, average person does not..unless medical reasons.

----------


## swithuk

> Hey Bud: how do you know top competitors were using Rips etc.? Not to deny they were, but did a supplier tell you or the person themselves. Also, sometimes guys will use half pharm and half generic etc. for money issues. 
> My point is, pro's etc are pretty knowledgable or at least informed about better products and there source will get them quality product. It's kind of like the bodybuilding mags using Pro's to endorse there products as if they obtained there physique on Protein Powder, fat burners etc. Just something to think about. Unfortunately this stuff not like available retail consumer products that you can switch to any brand you want. When I got screwed on mine, I just quit using hgh. Just felt I'm not beating my head against the wall and chance blowing money again. Prob a year later obtained pharm. still would not use if I didn't. Pro's have to have, average person does not..unless medical reasons.


sorry mate . i didnt write that bit ! lol sorry . i wrote in reply to his post 

i wrote this bit ..... they may well have been good . however recently something has definitely changed . many independent credible people , here and other boards , who are running it are noticing a dramatic difference .its not just chat .
me too , im running 6i.u e.d and im getting nothing ,no results and not even any sides
dont get me wrong i hope the situation is rectified and they get things back on track but they have dropped the ball or worse its intentional, which would be very short sighted

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> sorry mate . i didnt write that bit ! lol sorry . i wrote in reply to his post
> 
> i wrote this bit ..... they may well have been good . however recently something has definitely changed . many independent credible people , here and other boards , who are running it are noticing a dramatic difference .its not just chat .
> me too , im running 6i.u e.d and im getting nothing ,no results and not even any sides
> dont get me wrong i hope the situation is rectified and they get things back on track but they have dropped the ball or worse its intentional, which would be very short sighted


Lol---Well at least no weird sides. Frustrating! Pulling it out of fridge thinking WTF is this going to work, knowing it isn't. Remember a lot of supplement companies spiked products then after market built and before getting caught pulled the extras out. HGH has a whole new market of average people now. The market increased in large amounts. I know guys that don't even workout buying the generics etc.

----------


## Mrmilo

> I think the best and most productive way forward is to bypass ALL Chinese hgh weather jinss, ankie or generics no matter which country are selling them. It's obvious they have excellent counterfeit facilities and also chemicals what gives gh sides so I think your better off eliminating all Chinese hgh completely so the risk isn't there. obviously the cost is going to go up but at least you won't have all this Chinese worries to contend with.


Great thoughts. After 6 months on some yellows a few years ago sourced from China I was left wondering just what I had been taking. The manufacturing capabilities - especially the specialty labeling skills in China are second to none. They are the undisputed forgery cap of the world. As mentioned earlier the Russians/ Ukrainians are just good at ripping suckers off. So while I had results there is no way to confirm the quality of the hgh or if it was indeed hgh at all. But as we all know hgh is awesome and can improve so many things. I swear my back pain went away, eyesight improved and cardio improved massively. bf dropped from a high of 18 down to 11 with some real strength gains. At 165 I felt great and slept like a baby! Now I was focused on workout recovery and general fitness rather than size and brute strength. There was no denying this stuff worked. As a guy in his mid forties recovery and injuries were derailing my workouts like crazy! Once I hit stride with 2.5-3 iu per day 3 on one off I was at the top of my game. 
Now that source has been discredited on other forums and his hoakey site looks even worse and has far fewer items. Obviously there was a crackdown. I had hoped to go with more hgh and some igf LR3 to turbocharge things- Yeah I am still too big a ***** to go do a real stack but hey just the hgh worked for me the first time. he no longer lists LR3 and his HGH is more expensive and he was hit pretty hard in other forums since he is a pretty well know supplier. So I am glad I found this forum. There is a good vibe here to help each other meet their goals. I have been considering going to a longevity clinic and discussing hgh but the pharm industry in the USA is just evil with the prices they charge. So I am at a crossroads with respect to where I go next but I am glad I found this great group. Plenty more to read. Thanks!

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> So I am glad I found this forum. There is a good vibe here to help each other meet their goals. I have been considering going to a longevity clinic and discussing hgh but the pharm industry in the USA is just evil with the prices they charge. So I am at a crossroads with respect to where I go next but I am glad I found this great group. Plenty more to read. Thanks!


There are some reasonably priced Anti-Aging clinics in the U.S. if that's where your from. Blood work from these companies can range from 235.00-2,500.00. They do require prescription for blood work through them as they are tight with there protocol, many have been shut down for not following procedure. Also, purchasing the pharm grade hgh from them will allow you to take less with probably better results.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

My ansomone 10iu vials is legit. Been on it a couple weeks now and I've thought it was real gh it seems to be working like usual and bw shows it too. 

Gh serum is 20.6 1hr after 10iu and igf-1 is 635.

----------


## blackfiveo

got tested on IP yellows(10 IU) - saw several posts with the same batch # and exp date that were posted as bunk. Tested 2hr 45 min after 10IU. test attached
Attachment 126588

I assume they are legit? or could my body be producing this much on its own

----------


## gixxerboy1

> got tested on IP yellows(10 IU) - saw several posts with the same batch # and exp date that were posted as bunk. Tested 2hr 45 min after 10IU. test attached
> Attachment 126588
> 
> I assume they are legit? or could my body be producing this much on its own


do you have a baseline reading?
you could also have peptides that increase gh readings
also if its not bio available gh it will show an increase on blood work

----------


## blackfiveo

no I have never had a test before (31 years old)

I am not on anything else. What other test should I get?

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> no I have never had a test before (31 years old)
> 
> I am not on anything else. What other test should I get?


Igf-1. Gh serum just shows you're injecting 191aa but that doesn't mean that it's biologically active ie. that it will have the expected effect when injected. 

And your results are a little low for 10iu......

----------


## blackfiveo

> Igf-1. Gh serum just shows you're injecting 191aa but that doesn't mean that it's biologically active ie. that it will have the expected effect when injected. 
> 
> And your results are a little low for 10iu......


Ok back to the drawing board, should i do the same thing 10iu 2-3hr later test for IGF-1 (Insulin Like Growth Factor) or should I do both? $80 to have the HGH done again at the same time

----------


## marcus300

Getting watery eyes after about 20mins after injection and it seems to stay all day. Never had this before and I thought it was just me being tired but just had another report the same. Will update soon.

----------


## marcus300

> My ansomone 10iu vials is legit. Been on it a couple weeks now and I've thought it was real gh it seems to be working like usual and bw shows it too. 
> 
> Gh serum is 20.6 1hr after 10iu and igf-1 is 635.


Let me know if you see a difference in different boxes. Had some report mixed batches, half real half fake. If you suspect some are no good pm please. Thanks..

----------


## yom

too much info

----------


## yom

can we bump a thead with what serial numbers people suspect are fake n ones that are good ?

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> this ansamone reviews has made me very distraut as ive used these 2 yrs straight. 10 to 20iu day, as much as i can afford as i need this too stay on top in my country for bodybuilding......
> 
> ive used 4 different serial numbers since they all kept my weight at 300lbs so i might be lucky n not got a bad batch yet i hope i never do. my remailer buys alot so he may be given the good ones n small buyer the bad batch


Think it was brought up that certain countries etc were still good. Rolls back too"Selective Scamming" as Swifto pointed out. Almost like companies that test market areas first but in a bad way. Also, very obvious that it could not be a unusual or heat problem if fakes show up everywhere. Just an opinion.... On another note, 1)what type of long term side effects might come from that high of a dosage for extended period of time? 2) Excessive bone and organ growth including heart right?
I understand it's a necessity for your profession, but for knowledge sake I am just inquiring. 3) At for numbers sake, with proper training and diet how quickly would someone who is in shape notice a major change on bumping form 2iu's to 6iu's a day using Pharm grade? I am asking for personal use regarding photo shoot etc.

----------


## yom

look at any top pro and u will see the same. the hands grow, nose has gottten a lot bigger cartiligdge has made it thicker, stomach has gotten more distention as its used in a coctail insulin /gh/test high calorie/resistance training orgy . ive seen a friend on serotism 4iu day for 12months n was not at his genetic limit i didnt believe he even neeeded it (he didnt) hestopped the gh n replaced with rp6 n increased his cruise dose of testosterone by 400mg a week n began to grow again .2iu i cannot comment on

----------


## Far from massive

Yom, great to have the input of someone in your position. Thanks for your contribution to the thread.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> look at any top pro and u will see the same. the hands grow, nose has gottten a lot bigger cartiligdge has made it thicker, stomach has gotten more distention as its used in a coctail insulin/gh/test high calorie/resistance training orgy . ive seen a friend on serotism 4iu day for 12months n was not at his genetic limit i didnt believe he even neeeded it (he didnt) hestopped the gh n replaced with rp6 n increased his cruise dose of testosterone by 400mg a week n began to grow again .2iu i cannot comment on


Yes Yom, I am familiar with the growth on forehead, elbows etc. I was wondering more on the effects in the high dosages of the heart, organs etc. if any non reversible damage? I am not on the inside info of the Pro-Bodybuilding group of people, but as of yet have not heard of anyone having damaging effects that have affected there health permanently. I was using the 2iu as a base that I have used as a minimum for some time now. Just as information that I have been using as opposed to never using and the difference in bumping to around 6iu's. "At 58 I've pretty much reached my genetic Limit"--Lol---Just wondering due to cost if it would have physical and cosmetic advances in as little as 6 weeks. Financially I'm not sure how long I would be able to afford 6iu's of Pharm Grade, such as Serostim. 
Serostim has been a great product for myself. Guess everyone is different and would just have to give it a try.
Also, I use 5 on 2 off, but have heard its better to use 3 on 1 off? I did that for awhile, but sometimes is harder to stick to that schedule.What is considered best way to take? Anyone please feel free to chime in on that question.
Thanks for commenting Yom!

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

If you are using 191aa bioavailibility is the result of how much is absorbed, how quickly it is absorbed ( muscle or fat injection), and how much of the drug remains free and available. If its 191aa it is 191aa period!

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

If you are indeed using 191aa then bioavailability is based on how much drug is absorbed (muscle or fat injection) , how quickly the drug is absorbed, and how much of the drug remains free and available. If it is 191aa it is 191aa period!

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

The bioavailability of HGH (191aa) is dependent on how much drug is absorbed, how quickly the drug is absorbed, and how much of the absorbed drug remains free and available. If it is 191aa it is 191aa period!

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

^^^^Wrong, I've posted this and copied and reposted it many times but here it is again. And there's some more good info from marcus in this thread as well (post #24). http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...=#.UFuhZJiTaJU

There's always a lot of talk on here about people wanting to get their GH tested and recently another board has posted results of several generic GH brands that they paid to have tested at a licensed US facility. 

The problem with giving these tests any credibility is that there currently isn't a proper method of testing a recombinant protein based drug for "biological activity". In other words it could test to be pure 191aa GH and have absolutely none of the desired effect when administered. This article is written by Boris Y. Zaslavsky, Department of Physiology and Biophysics, Cornell University Medical College. 




_Recombinant DNA (rDNA) technology has led to the development of new protein-based drugs that are gaining worldwide regulatory approval. Human growth hormone , human insulin , β- and γ-interferons, and erythropoietin are just a few examples of approved rDNA-derived biopharmaceuticals.

The biological effects, purity, and potency of a drug is governed by the chemical structure of the drug for both traditional drugs and biopharmaceuticals. Standard analytical methodologies used for structural analysis of conventional drugs are, however, inadequate for complete characterization of protein-based products.

Two main reasons for this inadequacy are the large molecular size and conformational flexibility of protein-based drugs. The large molecular size hinders the possibility to detect, for example, repla***ent or chemical modification of a single amino acid residue or a change in a single glycosylation site. These alterations of the biomolecule structure, however, may lead to subtle changes of the molecule conformation resulting in significant changes in the pharmacological properties of the product.

Additionally, the wrong choice of manufacturing conditions or formulation may lead to improperly folded polypeptide chains which are biologically inactive. Hence, further methodologies capable of analysis of the protein conformation are needed.

Currently, the analysis of biopharmaceuticals relies heavily on the use of sophisticated methods for the demonstration of the structural identity, homogeneity and purity of the products. These methods include amino acid and carbohydrate analysis, N- and C-terminal sequence analysis, spectroscopic (UV, CD, ORD) analysis, peptide mapping, electrophoresis, chromatographic purity profile methods, potency/activity assays, etc. It must be emphasized that no one method is considered to be sufficient in itself, and that multiple methods are necessary to completely characterize and/or control such products.

For example, amino acid analysis for proteins with molecular weights above about 16 kilodaltons is known to be of very limited value. While useful for identification of the target protein, N-terminal and C-terminal sequencing only partially characterize the protein. Analysis of the primary structure, however, is insufficient to assure the biological potency of a protein, particularly since the potency depends on the protein conformation.

The conformation of proteins is usually analyzed by optical spectroscopy, such as UV spectroscopy, fluorescence spectroscopy, optical rotary dispersion, or circular dichroism. These methods are generally not sensitive enough to detect the subtle conformational changes caused by small alterations in the protein structure, especially if these changes do not affect side-chain chromophores from tryptophan, phenylalanine, tyrosine, and cysteine residues within the protein. Furthermore, these methods as well as others, such as electrophoresis, isoelectric focusing, differential scanning calorimetry, light scattering, ultracentrifugation, gel filtration, and immunological assays, only provide information about a particular structural or functional feature of a protein.

Chromatography is currently the most widely used analytical method for determining the purity of small organic drugs. Four modes of High-Performance Liquid Chromatography (HPLC) currently used for protein analysis are size-exclusion, ion-exchange, reversed-phase, and hydrophobic interaction chromatography. All these HPLC methods, though commonly employed to monitor the purity of biopharmaceuticals, are usually incapable of resolving proteins that differ by one or two residues or detecting other small changes in the macromolecular structure.

Hence, while chromatography is sufficient for determining whether a small organic drug is functional, the evaluation of a biopharmaceutical requires measurements of biological activity. Many of these measurements are the animal-based assays, particularly when the mechanism of action of the biopharmaceutical is not well defined. These assays are generally imprecise (with variability often 30% to 100%), time-consuming, and costly, and are not rugged. Cell culture assays can be used when the protein-based drug produces a measurable response in a cell-based system. The variability of these assays is much lower, often in the range of 10% to 30% or better (e.g., in vitro clot lysis assay has a variability of about 5%).

Physicochemical tests are much faster, more precise, and more reliable than biological assays. A physicochemical test providing information related to the biological potency of a protein-based drug would improve the control of the safety and efficacy of the drug.

Such a test should meet the following requirements: (1) it should provide information quantitatively related to the biological potency of a biopharmaceutical, (2) it should be capable of detecting minor changes in the structure of large macromolecules, (3) it should be especially sensitive to the structural changes affecting the efficacy of a biomacromolecule, (4) it should be sensitive to the presence of impurities in the product in quantities as small as 0.1 to 0.01 wt. %, (5) it should be simple, precise, and rugged, and (6) it should be time-, labor-, and cost-effective so as not to increase the overall cost of the product. Even if only some of these requirements were met, the test would improve the possibilities for assuring the safety and efficacy of biopharmaceuticals, such as recombinant human growth hormone (rhGH).


_

----------


## marcus300

> ^^^^Wrong, I've posted this and copied and reposted it many times but here it is again. And there's some more good info from marcus in this thread as well (post #24). http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...=#.UFuhZJiTaJU
> 
> There's always a lot of talk on here about people wanting to get their GH tested and recently another board has posted results of several generic GH brands that they paid to have tested at a licensed US facility. 
> 
> The problem with giving these tests any credibility is that there currently isn't a proper method of testing a recombinant protein based drug for "biological activity". In other words it could test to be pure 191aa GH and have absolutely none of the desired effect when administered. This article is written by Boris Y. Zaslavsky, Department of Physiology and Biophysics, Cornell University Medical College. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats correct SGT and the Chinese know it, they even saying now when blood test come back normal that you must be a none responder haha what a joke, you just know they fill those gh vials with peptides now just to throw the blood test out.........

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

Even if only SOME of these requirements were met, the test would IMPROVE! the possibilities for the safety and efficacy of biopharmacuticals, such as (HGH)

You see Jintropin has the patent for the development of HGH. They have done all the quoted mumbo jumbo medical jargon to produce 191aa.

----------


## marcus300

Come off my anasome because having strange sides, seems very weak and I suspect they are peptides or something else.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Come off my anasome because having strange sides, seems very weak and I suspect they are peptides or something else.


That's horrible man, have any ideas what might be in it? Sorry to hear that. Hopefully you can pressure them into exchanging and let them make up some bs, just to get good.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> Come off my anasome because having strange sides, seems very weak and I suspect they are peptides or something else.


Does it look like and reconstitute like real gh?

----------


## swithuk

Yes i had the exact same problem . mine looked fine and reconstituted fine too , put the water in and just left it standing for 5 mins and was clear . if it was g.h then it was weak , could of been a peptide - definitely something not right with it - real shame

----------


## marcus300

> Does it look like and reconstitute like real gh?


Exactly the same, cant tell the difference but they seem so weak. Ive used gh for years on and off and this last batch seem like the generics i use to get years ago. Had some odd sides this time around like watery eyes and I mean none stop but as soon as ive stopped them my eyes are fine! Also had some heavy bloating which didnt subside infact it was increasing as I went up the ius and I had a strange overall feeling something wasn't right.

Ankie have told me that blood test mean nothing because I could be a none responder to gh haha or some kind of heat as destroyed the delicate hormone. If I had to guess I would say they are selectively scamming bodybuilders or outside orders with the fakes what are going around because the fakes are identical and I mean exactly the same and its funny how the fake site selling them as changed its payment details recently.

----------


## dec11

> Exactly the same, cant tell the difference but they seem so weak. Ive used gh for years on and off and this last batch seem like the generics i use to get years ago. Had some odd sides this time around like watery eyes and I mean none stop but as soon as ive stopped them my eyes are fine! Also had some heavy bloating which didnt subside infact it was increasing as I went up the ius and I had a strange overall feeling something wasn't right.
> 
> Ankie have told me that blood test mean nothing because I could be a none responder to gh haha or some kind of heat as destroyed the delicate hormone. If I had to guess I would say they are selectively scamming bodybuilders or outside orders with the fakes what are going around because the fakes are identical and I mean exactly the same and its funny how the fake site selling them as changed its payment details recently.


cvnts, horrible to get done over like that. i'd a colleague who 6 yrs ago was getting his Lily at heavily knocked down price direct from a medical rep he PT'd, oh how i wish that contact was still going!!!

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Exactly the same, cant tell the difference but they seem so weak. Ive used gh for years on and off and this last batch seem like the generics i use to get years ago. Had some odd sides this time around like watery eyes and I mean none stop but as soon as ive stopped them my eyes are fine! Also had some heavy bloating which didnt subside infact it was increasing as I went up the ius and I had a strange overall feeling something wasn't right.
> 
> Ankie have told me that blood test mean nothing because I could be a none responder to gh haha or some kind of heat as destroyed the delicate hormone. If I had to guess I would say they are selectively scamming bodybuilders or outside orders with the fakes what are going around because the fakes are identical and I mean exactly the same and its funny how the fake site selling them as changed its payment details recently.


The bloating, was the same problem I had with the fake Jintropin, the more iu's I added per day the worse it got. I think I dropped about 8lbs.of water within a week after quitting. I'm sure no doctors have diagnosed patients being prescribed Pharmaceutical grade stating to there patients "You must be a non responder". SUCH A WEAK BS ANSWER TO COME UP WITH! All these years of selling there product, all of a sudden they are coming up with claims of people being non responders. You were never a non responder before.....

----------


## marcus300

> The bloating, was the same problem I had with the fake Jintropin, the more iu's I added per day the worse it got. I think I dropped about 8lbs.of water within a week after quitting. I'm sure no doctors have diagnosed patients being prescribed Pharmaceutical grade stating to there patients "You must be a non responder". SUCH A WEAK BS ANSWER TO COME UP WITH! All these years of selling there product, all of a sudden they are coming up with claims of people being non responders. You were never a non responder before.....


I'm 255lbs bloated as hell but the water is dropping, dont know what they put in them but its evil stuff. I'd rather it be sugar and water than dangerous chemiclas like that

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> I'm 255lbs bloated as hell but the water is dropping, dont know what they put in them but its evil stuff. I'd rather it be sugar and water than dangerous chemiclas like that


It's odd that they would be so ignorant as to put something in it that makes you look worse fast, better to put something that does nothing. They obviously have not even come close to counterfeiting the product itself. Just ignorant on there part to make such an obvious blunder. It shows how reckless they are and total lack of regard for people in general, not to mention there brand name being destroyed!!!!!! They have a different set of rules. This will turn out to be a much bigger financial problem then they calculated. HOPEFULLY??????

----------


## marcus300

> It's odd that they would be so ignorant as to put something in it that makes you look worse fast, better to put something that does nothing. They obviously have not even come close to counterfeiting the product itself. Just ignorant on there part to make such an obvious blunder. It shows how reckless they are and total lack of regard for people in general, not to mention there brand name being destroyed!!!!!! They have a different set of rules. This will turn out to be a much bigger financial problem then they calculated. HOPEFULLY??????


If you search around the forums and listen to the guy using generics a lot are saying they just started gh and they have put on 10lbs etc, they actually think its working because they gaining weight.They have no idea what they are taking about. I think the Chinese are clever doing this because us bodybuilders are obsess with size etc.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> If you search around the forums and listen to the guy using generics a lot are saying they just started gh and they have put on 10lbs etc, they actually think its working because they gaining weight.They have no idea what they are taking about. I think the Chinese are clever doing this because us bodybuilders are obsess with size etc.


That's a good point and most guys are not pro's, just guys wanting to be big. I look around the gym and see so many young guys that have "SOME" size, but are puffy looking and never defined.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> If you search around the forums and listen to the guy using generics a lot are saying they just started gh and they have put on 10lbs etc, they actually think its working because they gaining weight.They have no idea what they are taking about. I think the Chinese are clever doing this because us bodybuilders are obsess with size etc.


Or they're on test/tren at the same time and think their body composition changes are due to their generic GH lol.

----------


## dec11

> If you search around the forums and listen to the guy using generics a lot are saying they just started gh and they have put on 10lbs etc, *they actually think its working because they gaining weight*.They have no idea what they are taking about. I think the Chinese are clever doing this because us bodybuilders are obsess with size etc.


thats major BS there, so many other forums are full of reps spouting absolute crap

----------


## Sheven

Hydrocortisone/Prednisone. This is the key answer for the fake gh. Sheven is ****ing GOLDEN at this discovery. Please, applause! Bulgarian operation called "Relabeling!"

----------


## DanB

> Hydrocortisone/Prednisone. This is the key answer for the fake gh. Sheven is ****ing GOLDEN at this discovery. Please, applause! Bulgarian operation called "Relabeling!"


i take it this is reliable info yeah? very interesting, would it be this solely in the vial or would peps also be incoporated in your opinion?

here is a question for you, melting point test for legitimacy of hgh

theory sound or flawed?

----------


## Sheven

> i take it this is reliable info yeah? very interesting, would it be this solely in the vial or would peps also be incoporated in your opinion?
> 
> here is a question for you, melting point test for legitimacy of hgh
> 
> theory sound or flawed?


I'm sure you can see the identical bottle right? Coroborated with the German Custom authorities seizure and analysis conformation ( http://www.zoll.de/SharedDocs/Presse...html?nn=136276 ) where is clearly stated that:

" Statt des eigentlich erwarteten *Wachstumshormons* "*Somatropin*", von dem nicht geringste Spuren nachgewiesen werden konnten, enthielten die Fälschungen neben anderen Stoffen insbesondere den Wirkstoff *Cortison*."

*YOU PAY FOR GH AND GET HYDROCORTISONE: DESTROYS YOUR BONES, MUSCLES, EYES, KIDNEY, LIVER. THIS COUNTERFEITERS DESERVE MANY YEARS IN JAIL THAT'S FOR SURE.*

----------


## DanB

there is only the second pic showing up on the app for me, i had a feeling i would sound stupid making that statement because the pics would tell a story lol

how many of the generics would you say contain hydrocortisone?

any thought on a melting point test for hgh? i never heard it being done before so im assuming it is flawed in some way, shape or form?

----------


## Sheven

> there is only the second pic showing up on the app for me, i had a feeling i would sound stupid making that statement because the pics would tell a story lol
> 
> how many of the generics would you say contain hydrocortisone?
> 
> any thought on a melting point test for hgh? i never heard it being done before so im assuming it is flawed in some way, shape or form?


Load both pictures and you'll see my point  :Wink: .

I don't think much of the generics from China are hydrocortisone, the chinese aren't really that evil, honestly telling and i do consider the chinese some of the most ruthless, but not that much. Bulgarias are worse, trust me  :Big Grin: 

There is no way you can do a melting point on a peptide bro, the cheapest and most available way to check is by SDS-PAGE, anything near 22 Kilodalton is safe to say is HGH.

----------


## DanB

i dont need to test my hgh it was just a dumb question out of curiosity and yeah now that i think of it, the heat will just destroy the molecule before it even gets warm so yeah dumbass question lol, i knew there was some simple reason that it wouldnt work, dont worry im bouncing my head off the wall as we speak

i went onto the browser and seen the pics, hold on wait that looks like my hgh haha  :Smilie:  i joke 

and the pakistanians are worse then the bulgarians  :Smilie:

----------


## gixxerboy1

Those pics are identical. That would explain the water weight. Also the prednisone depending on dosages would take away some aches and pains. 

And hey and 1 of my best friends is Bulgarian  :Smilie:

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Hydrocortisone/Prednisone. This is the key answer for the fake gh. Sheven is ****ing GOLDEN at this discovery. Please, applause! Bulgarian operation called "Relabeling!"


Congrat's!

----------


## swithuk

> I'm sure you can see the identical bottle right? Coroborated with the German Custom authorities seizure and analysis conformation ( http://www.zoll.de/SharedDocs/Presse...html?nn=136276 ) where is clearly stated that:
> 
> " Statt des eigentlich erwarteten *Wachstumshormons* "*Somatropin*", von dem nicht geringste Spuren nachgewiesen werden konnten, enthielten die Fälschungen neben anderen Stoffen insbesondere den Wirkstoff *Cortison*."
> 
> *YOU PAY FOR GH AND GET HYDROCORTISONE: DESTROYS YOUR BONES, MUSCLES, EYES, KIDNEY, LIVER. THIS COUNTERFEITERS DESERVE MANY YEARS IN JAIL THAT'S FOR SURE.*


why the hell would they put this shit into bottles ? is it because it would give you the same sides and real g.h ??????? (blindness isnt a side of g.h is it ?!)

----------


## Sheven

> why the hell would they put this shit into bottles ? is it because it would give you the same sides and real g.h ??????? (blindness isnt a side of g.h is it ?!)


they take the fancy looking Hydrocortisone double chamber vials and only change the label. that's the whole scamming. cortisone has the water retention effect so people gain weight fast meanwhile getting totally body-trashed by the cortisone.

----------


## gixxerboy1

> why the hell would they put this shit into bottles ? is it because it would give you the same sides and real g.h ??????? (blindness isnt a side of g.h is it ?!)


i've been on and off prednisone for over 15 years for another health issue. And sometimes at high doses. It has never effected my kidneys or liver. I go for an eye exam each year to check and no issues. 

All those are possible side effects. But to the same point read all the side effects of Tylenol . 

I agree with sheven it will add water weight pretty fast. It also reduces minor aches and pains. So people will feel a little better. I know i do. I also have more energy while on prednisone.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

Prednisone destroyed the bones of someone close to me. Her hip literally broke while standing. I spoke with a doctor I knew and said she should have not been on prednisone for so many years especially being in late 60's. She was given another drug to help offset the bone weakening, which did not work, obviously. Bottom line is prednisone caused a broken hip and cracked pelvis. From that point due to first hip surgery that failed, then two more after, Alzheimer's and dementia set in. The anesthetic used in surgery causes an elderly persons mind to deteriorate. "That information was told to me by an anesthesiologist who is a friend of mine". All of this caused her passing, which I know would have come much later, had she not been on prednisone. Arthritis attack led to the start of prednisone and out of laziness and poor treatment, they just kept her on it. My point is Sheven is putting it mildly stating jail time for manufacturers of this. I'm not so sure about Chinese not using the same. My Jin as stated before gave me crazy water retention. The Chinese do like to copy!!

----------


## EasyDoesIt

BTW Sheven: That is a life saving find that you researched and shared. If indeed it is fact. Either way, I've been following this thread more than any on this site and am still amazed at members looking to defend the manufacturers of this bad HGH. My interest is due to having used enough of these generics and what I thought was quality as in the JINTROPIN to know I was using bad product. Then finally obtaining real pharm grade and seeing such an amazing difference. Then I knew for sure what real HGH was and how well it worked. There just going to keep making this junk as long as people keep buying it. If real HGH becomes to hard to obtain anti aging companies business will sky rocket and as demand increases, they will just keep raising there prices. We will be screwed!!

----------


## Sheven

> i've been on and off prednisone for over 15 years for another health issue. And sometimes at high doses. It has never effected my kidneys or liver. I go for an eye exam each year to check and no issues. 
> 
> All those are possible side effects. But to the same point read all the side effects of Tylenol . 
> 
> I agree with sheven it will add water weight pretty fast. It also reduces minor aches and pains. So people will feel a little better. I know i do. I also have more energy while on prednisone.


bro what's a big dosage for you? this guys are labeling the 40mg methylprednisolone at 15 IU of GH. most guys means use around 15mg of methylprednisolone daily for 3-4 months, that is really killer for some.

----------


## gixxerboy1

> bro what's a big dosage for you? this guys are labeling the 40mg methylprednisolone at 15 IU of GH. most guys means use around 15mg of methylprednisolone daily for 3-4 months, that is really killer for some.


Ive been as high as 80mg of prednisone ed for up to 6 months

----------


## Far from massive

Thats really some rude shit, great find Sheven,

I guess one thing that they know if they sell people that "HGH" and they use it for any length of time they will become lifetime customers when you use a high dose of prednisone and stop you tend to feel like shit.....Imagine the poor bastards who use this shyte for a few months and become dependent and don't even know that they need to withdraw slowly to prevent severe life threatening withdrawal...addsionian (if I remember the name correctly) syndrome.

Sheven is right these people really need to be strung up by their...well you get the idea.

----------


## marcus300

Sheven: Good catch and research  :Smilie:  it explains why so many like the Chinese gh and the weight they seem to think comes from gh lol

This is what Ive been saying for yrs about the Chinese, some of the chemicals they are putting inside are not pleasant at all. Ive had friends had to go into hospital due to BP issues and the water retention was out of control, had some who got gyno when they stopped and during the gh cycle and my most recent experience with anansome from Ankie was really strange, had water eyes which is something ive never had before, also had some water gain or I should say more than normal water retention. I'd rather then put sugar and water then dangerous chemicals

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Sheven: Good catch and research  it explains why so many like the Chinese gh and the weight they seem to think comes from gh lol
> 
> This is what Ive been saying for yrs about the Chinese, some of the chemicals they are putting inside are not pleasant at all. Ive had friends had to go into hospital due to BP issues and the water retention was out of control, had some who got gyno when they stopped and during the gh cycle and my most recent experience with anansome from Ankie was really strange, had water eyes which is something ive never had before, also had some water gain or I should say more than normal water retention. I'd rather then put sugar and water then dangerous chemicals


Any idea why they would get Gyno? Maybe hcg ? If they were using a lot of test and pumping hcg everyday that would cause it. I was thinking they quit using hcg in the fakes?

----------


## marcus300

> Any idea why they would get Gyno? Maybe hcg? If they were using a lot of test and pumping hcg everyday that would cause it. I was thinking they quit using hcg in the fakes?


They weren't using gh with test, some got it on the gh cycle alone and alot got gyno when they stopped, suspect it was an AI and got a rebound effect when stopped. We all know they are capable of putting anything inside then

----------


## Sheven

> They weren't using gh with test, some got it on the gh cycle alone and alot got gyno when they stopped, suspect it was an AI and got a rebound effect when stopped. We all know they are capable of putting anything inside then


gyno can be mistaken by water retention in certain spots or other drug that can cause hardening of tissue (like fibrosis).

----------


## marcus300

> gyno can be mistaken by water retention in certain spots or other drug that can cause hardening of tissue (like fibrosis).


No it was gyno, especially the guy who got it once they stopped taking the gh. I suspect it was an AI and they got a rebound once they stopped taking it.

----------


## Sheven

> No it was gyno, especially the guy who got it once they stopped taking the gh. I suspect it was an AI and they got a rebound once they stopped taking it.


What brand/color top was this ?

----------


## marcus300

> What brand/color top was this ?


Various generics but mostly the rips.

----------


## OnTheSauce

My rips tested great

----------


## marcus300

Rips are total rubbish, you wont have hgh it will be something else no matter what test you did.

----------


## DanB

> Rips are total rubbish, you wont have hgh it will be something else no matter what test you did.


Marcus i dont disagree about the rips or generics in general

But in your opinion, what is in it that gives such a high serum reading? Peps only give a quarter of the readings you see and thats if tested in perfect circumstances

A friend tested recently in mid 40's so i know first hand that it isnt simply source board propganda (spelling)

But mid 40's serum is twice what eli lily found in legit studys with their hgh using same protocol so obviously there is something amiss

What is your opinion on how they obtain these results from something other then legit hgh?

----------


## marcus300

> Marcus i dont disagree about the rips or generics in general
> 
> But in your opinion, what is in it that gives such a high serum reading? Peps only give a quarter of the readings you see and thats if tested in perfect circumstances
> 
> A friend tested recently in mid 40's so i know first hand that it isnt simply source board propganda (spelling)
> 
> But mid 40's serum is twice what eli lily found in legit studys with their hgh using same protocol so obviously there is something amiss
> 
> What is your opinion on how they obtain these results from something other then legit hgh?


I really have no idea what they put inside them to throw off a blood serum test but ive also seen readings way off the scale on generics something like 2 to 3 times over what pharm grade gh results show which is scary because we know they are capable of putting anything inside them no matter how dangerous. Could they put high levels of peps inside them becauase ive heard from a good reliable source that peps are dirt cheap to produce so maybe something like this or a mixture of chemicals.

----------


## cyounger100

> My rips tested great


rips are garbage all of them its just fillrrs and other dangerous poision in them pharm grade or nothing else ur health isnt worth it. I run pharm.grade have no severe water weight or hamds sweeled like ballons all of which i had on rips they are no good none of them

----------


## OnTheSauce

I did an hgh serum and igf test. 10iu IM the night before and 10iu 3.5hrs before blood was drawn. Mine are good to go. any doubt I had was removed with that test. Also have some hyges sitting here my lifting partner is going to test in a few weeks

----------


## DanB

> I did an hgh serum and igf test. 10iu IM the night before and 10iu 3.5hrs before blood was drawn. Mine are good to go. any doubt I had was removed with that test. Also have some hyges sitting here my lifting partner is going to test in a few weeks


But how is it possible that they test higher then pharm

Do you not see the problem here?

----------


## Sheven

rips, hyge and one type of kigtropin analyzed by sds-page and peptide fingerprint identification turned out pretty good recently. maybe some are totally bunk but there are good batches of this products around, no doubt on that.

----------


## OnTheSauce

I do, but mine tested in the high 20s. Not 65 or anything silly like that. I assume those weird generics are full of non bioavailable gh

----------


## marcus300

> But how is it possible that they test higher then pharm
> 
> Do you not see the problem here?


Yes its a huge problem

----------


## DanB

> I really have no idea what they put inside them to throw off a blood serum test but ive also seen readings way off the scale on generics something like 2 to 3 times over what pharm grade gh results show which is scary because we know they are capable of putting anything inside them no matter how dangerous. Could they put high levels of peps inside them becauase ive heard from a good reliable source that peps are dirt cheap to produce so maybe something like this or a mixture of chemicals.


I would love to know but as far as peps namely ghrh/ghrp there is a diminshed increase in the pulse once saturation dose is exceeded so it would explain some of the results but I dont think it is possible for them to achieve the outrageously high results that have been shown as of late although I could be wrong

Although with the resources they have available I guess the possibiltys are endless

I would to see various generics analysed and broken down to see exactly what they contain 

I have seen some in the past as Im sure you also have, that have been shown to contain traces of heavy metals

God only knows what else......

----------


## marcus300

> I would love to know but as far as peps namely ghrh/ghrp there is a diminshed increase in the pulse once saturation dose is exceeded so it would explain some of the results but I dont think it is possible for them to achieve the outrageously high results that have been shown as of late although I could be wrong
> 
> Although with the resources they have available I guess the possibiltys are endless
> 
> I would to see various generics analysed and broken down to see exactly what they contain 
> 
> I have seen some in the past as Im sure you also have, that have been shown to contain traces of heavy metals
> 
> God only knows what else......


I know its scary

I just dont trust them anymore, do I think the generic companies are producing 100% hgh my answer would still be no. Ive used pharm grade many times and the stuff from China doesnt fall anywhere near it so this tells me no matter what the tests show something is wrong.

I know the peps can only increase it so much but who knows what they are capable of doing. This generic/China hgh has been going on for years now and for me to many guys who know what they are talking about who have used both generic and pharm tell me something is wrong but most of all my own experience, i'm not fooled by tests/gains etc because we all know these can come from the compounds being used and other crap the gh contains..


What do you think of the jins at the moment,

----------


## DanB

> I know its scary
> 
> I just dont trust them anymore, do I think the generic companies are producing 100% hgh my answer would still be no. Ive used pharm grade many times and the stuff from China doesnt fall anywhere near it so this tells me no matter what the tests show something is wrong.
> 
> I know the peps can only increase it so much but who knows what they are capable of doing. This generic/China hgh has been going on for years now and for me to many guys who know what they are talking about who have used both generic and pharm tell me something is wrong but most of all my own experience, i'm not fooled by tests/gains etc because we all know these can come from the compounds being used and other crap the gh contains..
> 
> What do you think of the jins at the moment,


Yeah i completely agree, I havnt personally used generics but between the bunk labs, outrageously high labs, opinions for the likes of yourself, sarge, gix who all advise to steer clear and the price difference isnt large enough to warrant me taking a massive gamble on generics

Jins, I got a relatively large amount a few months ago when the european championships were on in Ukraine directly from the pharmacy, I can still obtain them this way but a friend had his seized by customs a few weeks ago and obviously there is no reship etc so I dont think it is worth the risk to try again and risk a complete loss

But as far as online sources for jins then I believe alot if not all are either generics relabelled or completely fake......

----------


## marcus300

> Yeah i completely agree, I havnt personally used generics but between the bunk labs, outrageously high labs, opinions for the likes of yourself, sarge, gix who all advise to steer clear and the price difference isnt large enough to warrant me taking a massive gamble on generics
> 
> Jins, I got a relatively large amount a few months ago when the european championships were on in Ukraine directly from the pharmacy, I can still obtain them this way but a friend had his seized by customs a few weeks ago and obviously there is no reship etc so I dont think it is worth the risk to try again and risk a complete loss
> 
> But as far as online sources for jins then I believe alot if not all are either generics relabelled or completely fake......


Ive been told the law as changed and you can't import via postal services only by foot infact a customs officer told me this and also my friend had the same converstaion with them. Risky!

----------


## Far from massive

Do you think any of the problems are simply caused by poor manufacture? IE They are actually trying to produce good HGH but due to the complexity of the process the stuff is of poor quality? Could this explain some of the problems of adverse sides etc. as well as possibly the high lab results, say they know the shyte came out bad so instead of dumping it ( like a real pharma would ) they simply double up on the amount or blend some good with some bad?

My knowlege of the manufacture is way to weak to know if bad folds etc. in the process can cause these sorts of problems I just thought I would ask as this would help to explain why you have good/bad and so-so results coming from the same supplier/brand.

----------


## marcus300

> Do you think any of the problems are simply caused by poor manufacture? IE They are actually trying to produce good HGH but due to the complexity of the process the stuff is of poor quality? Could this explain some of the problems of adverse sides etc. as well as possibly the high lab results, say they know the shyte came out bad so instead of dumping it ( like a real pharma would ) they simply double up on the amount or blend some good with some bad?
> 
> My knowlege of the manufacture is way to weak to know if bad folds etc. in the process can cause these sorts of problems I just thought I would ask as this would help to explain why you have good/bad and so-so results coming from the same supplier/brand.


No I don't, I think they are trying to produce something what cost's nothing to make and sell it to the underground market and completely rip us all off..

----------


## Far from massive

Well it was a thought...

Thanks for the quick reply.

FFM

----------


## Nincompoop

Hey everyone
This is my first post so bear with me ( if i have written some stuff to do with sources im not meant to i will change it as soon as someone says to)
So Swim ordered some jintropin branded hgh online from a place suggested by gensci-china. It came in the same packaging as an earlier posting on this forum ChuckEisenmench. As in same russian writing and from the Ukraine.
From reading this forum im beginning to think I should just chuck it out but before I do a couple of questions regarding the level of corruption involved with jintropin. Does legitimate jintropin still exist at all? ( is the main gensci-china.com website actually the real manufacturers website or do they not even have a publicly listed website)
If so therefore are all the suppliers listed on their website and the resellers those suppliers then suggest all fake as well?
Any help is greatly appreciated
Here are some pictures

----------


## gixxerboy1

Yes real jins do exist. No that is not their website. And gen-sci will not refer you to a re-sellers. Gen-sci got in trouble about 6 years ago for similar acts. That is why they can only sell to a few select countries now. They are not going to risk their company and do it that openly again.

----------


## Nincompoop

lucky i didnt go straight up and buy a big amount...

----------


## gixxerboy1

Its against the rules to talk about sources or sites to buy from. 
I have used jins before they got in trouble. Yes there are still legit jins out there. But they are very hard to get. I would never risk my money on those odds

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

Nincompoop

You got product from Jintropin distributer . They nor Gen-sci will sell direct to you, however I have gotten PM's from others who have the same stuff from several other websites. The packageing is the same from all the various websites that we ordered from. I checked your serial # and it came back made for export to Eukraine which is a country that Jin sells to. The vials have the same numbers and logos as the box. You can look till you are blue in the face and you will not find a more genuine website for Jintropin. If it is not their website I would appreciate a PM telling me where the F*** it is! One guy contacted *** and they said they do not sell to individuals. However when asked about a certain website they said it is available through them. Gen_sci does not sell nor is a source!! There is no way to order from that site. By the way the product he did receive is the same as his and others and mine and yours. Gee do you think that someone can actually buy and resell Jintropin from a foreign country? Jin has 75% of the Chinese market. They sell to several countries as stated on the Gensc-china under international business tab.

ChuckEisenmench

----------


## DanB

> Nincompoop
> 
> 
> 
> ChuckEisenmench


where did you get the figure for the marketshare, i have done extensive research and never came across an offical figure but my understanding ia that anki market leader, i have never even seen anything to confirm they are licensed to sell domestically since their licensed was revoked in 07

i know they were given license in last 12-18 months to manufacturer and export to selected countries but nothing from a credible source to confirm a license for domestic trading

can you post links for this info because i need to confirm if it is the case then wherever you found this could have other info that you see no relevance but myself or others deem relevant and clear it all up once and for all

so the links please and thankyou

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

Edited by *admin*

----------


## gixxerboy1

^^^ please edit your post you can list "distributors"
eukraine isnt a country. Its Ukraine.
GH isnt OTC anyplace that jins sell to. So you need a script here just like there. How easy is it to get pharm grade gh here?
You cant find a site that is more real? Ok but the one you post isnt real. So is it 50? 95% real? Its not a legit site.

And chuck no offense but you been here since july and have 55 post. And your upset that nobody will PM you a source. You dont even have enough post by the rules for a source check. 

And i agree with Dan about Ansonome and gen-sci regarding licensing and market share.

----------


## DanB

yeah and still waiting on the links to where he apperantly saw these figures

he conviently avoided my questions so yet again with this guy i have to call bullshit on his claims 

good to have ya back gix  :Wink: 

i cannot.see anybody giving him the info he is looking for when yet again he makes wild claims with nothing to back them up when asked to 

and if his igf test is the best way to test for bio available hgh but then how does he know it isnt just igf with a hgh label? i would love if this could be explained to me by him with all his wisdon on the subject

mabey if he stopped trying to convince us (people with legit hgh) that he is correct and all of us are actually wrong

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## Nincompoop

post removed

----------


## ROBOCOP

> Ok so after doing more research on this subject I discover that excessive water retention can in fact cause CTS, so this then makes me think that it will be all to easy for China to produce a drug which you inject to give you all the sides associated with HGH when in fact it is rubbish.
> 
> *Conclusion*
> 
> 
> In order to be sure that what you are injecting is real HGH you need to get it tested in a lab.


I have never taken hgh but I can certify what XL is stating regarding CTS. I always get CTS when on cycle , don't have it when I'm off cycle and I've always put that down to water retention. (Yep, a few months old that quote, I know, I know)!!

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## gixxerboy1

> So you can list distributors and production labs .... both fake you guys think.... but show us the real gensci website or do they not have a website at all?


No you can not. That's why i told him to edit his post. Edit yours to.

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## ChuckEisenmench

Go to any Mexican Pharmacy and get drugs.
Thailand also.
Ukraine too.

ALSO- gh bood serum levels elevated. IGF-1 levels elevated- I guess they put them both in there.

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## gixxerboy1

^^^ edit your post. We dont list websites, sources, distributors. So edit your posts i've already asked once.

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## ChuckEisenmench

Donald Trump just sold a condo to a Chinaman for 53,000,000. They have money. Millions to invest in pharmacuticals. Supply and demand. Brand name = legit, OK. When Jintropin had their licsence revoked another 125 co's were checked. All they did was start another co.

LINKS to what? Can't give you websites, another conundrum!

Produced domestically, where China?

Yes it is hypothetical to suggest that HGH is made without a brand name.

China being as corrupt as you say can be also corrupt in manufacturing HGH under a corrupt Govt. with little oversight. They refuse to cooperate with the USA and say it is our problem to enforce our drug laws about imports. 

I am just not convinced that HGH is not being produced (Jintropin) Prove me wrong!

You are breaking several laws by injecting HGH without a medical reason.

I'm impressed you have the knowledge about the state of the world and drugs.

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## Nincompoop

I fixed up the posts guys, sorry for posting the links just trying to find the real gensci china website if there is one.

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## gixxerboy1

Ugg. Your right. Your months of research you know more then everyone else that have better connects and doing it longer.

Keep using yours and I'll stick with mine. I don't need to convince you.

That's the board rules about sites. 

Sure. Brand name equals legit? Sure nobody makes knock offs of brand name anything.

But im sure your getting real gh from eukraine. Can you show me on a map where that is.

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## ChuckEisenmench

Gee your lab tests must be good. Yeh you have CONNECTS. You have been doing it longer and circumventing laws yet are unable to find a source. That's a shame. Try the internet. Maybe there is somewhere in this wide world where someone might be able to steer you in the right direction. Even on this forum which have rules guarding all the secrets. Has anyone on here actually gone through the ultra sophisticated complicated scientific process of checking HGH for fakes? NO. The process of setting up all the convaluted counterfeit websites, faux chemical products that mimic the real thing(BW, etc.), production plants, fake vials, labels, boxes, mailing addresses, fake anticounterfeiting, shipping, storing, 191aa that is defective by one atom which turns the wrong way, not to mention that going that far costs as much as producing the real thing in as much as the same equipment and methods are used. BW is invaledated by peptides (which are also hard to make), IGF-1 in place of HGH to fool the BW. No one has their stuff sent to a lab. Even brand names are suspect as are sources. This never ending paranoia hardly seems worth the effort. You don't need to convince me, you need to accept the fact that Jintropin is being sent here. I will send you a vial and you send it to the lab! All the never ending scepticism about HGH is annoying. Since tons of drugs come here daily, I can believe that an intelligent group of people can smuggle HGH (REAL) here and still make a profit without making fakes. Not that some are not crooks. Research is only part of it, experience and common sense plays a big part. This forum is valuable and keeps a lot of people from making mistakes. 
I resent the attitude of "vets" thinking that only they can possibly succeed. I'm no hillbilly. Stick to your stuff. I'll go my way.

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## Sgt. Hartman

> Links
> 
> 
> Go to any Mexican Pharmacy and get drugs.
> Thailand also.
> Ukraine too.
> 
> ALSO- gh bood serum levels elevated. IGF-1 levels elevated- I guess they put them both in there.


You should post up your blood work results.

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## gixxerboy1

> Gee your lab tests must be good. Yeh you have CONNECTS. You have been doing it longer and circumventing laws yet are unable to find a source. That's a shame. Try the internet. Maybe there is somewhere in this wide world where someone might be able to steer you in the right direction. Even on this forum which have rules guarding all the secrets. Has anyone on here actually gone through the ultra sophisticated complicated scientific process of checking HGH for fakes? NO. The process of setting up all the convaluted counterfeit websites, faux chemical products that mimic the real thing(BW, etc.), production plants, fake vials, labels, boxes, mailing addresses, fake anticounterfeiting, shipping, storing, 191aa that is defective by one atom which turns the wrong way, not to mention that going that far costs as much as producing the real thing in as much as the same equipment and methods are used. BW is invaledated by peptides (which are also hard to make), IGF-1 in place of HGH to fool the BW. No one has their stuff sent to a lab. Even brand names are suspect as are sources. This never ending paranoia hardly seems worth the effort. You don't need to convince me, you need to accept the fact that Jintropin is being sent here. I will send you a vial and you send it to the lab! All the never ending scepticism about HGH is annoying. Since tons of drugs come here daily, I can believe that an intelligent group of people can smuggle HGH (REAL) here and still make a profit without making fakes. Not that some are not crooks. Research is only part of it, experience and common sense plays a big part. This forum is valuable and keeps a lot of people from making mistakes. 
> I resent the attitude of "vets" thinking that only they can possibly succeed. I'm no hillbilly. Stick to your stuff. I'll go my way.


Chuck your post makes no sense. Circumventing the law? and how are you getting yours? I have a source for a my gh and im very happy with them. 
I've never said there was no real jin gh. So i dont get why your so upset. The chances of getting real ones is small. Thats just a fact. So do i feel good recommending a member to buy jins. No i dont. And yes i can get them from Mexico or Ukraine. But i choose not to gamble that much with my cash or recommend someone else does either.
The process of counterfeiting stuff is not hard to do. There may be some start up cost to it. But once its done the expense is almost nothing. So its a huge money maker.

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## DanB

> Links
> 
> 
> Go to any Mexican Pharmacy and get drugs.
> Thailand also.
> Ukraine too.
> 
> ALSO- gh bood serum levels elevated. IGF-1 levels elevated- I guess they put them both in there.



so basically you using the info from a scammer or fake website to back your arguement?


do you actually believe this and thought you were being clever or are you simple a little thick?

post a prionout of these rezults

do you work or rep for jintropin or anybody who is related to them

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## ChuckEisenmench

FAKE! So how do I get results? Get real. Gensci site is authentic! Give me a reason that you are convinced all online websites ONLY sell fakes. The whole world is waiting for your answer. ONLY you know where Jintropin is sold. I have not gotten any proof from you that this is the case. LINKS please. Ansomone is doubtful with their brand name. China is a large country. It has 100's of co's that are able to make HGH. Scammers? When you get lab results to verify this I will listen. Get BW send vial to some unnamed lab and then maybe you have some creditability! Who do you represent? Send results of tests. I am happy with Jintropin. I am just saying that you and others here are predudiced without cause. I searced the internet for Jintropin and found that an inexpensive alternitive is available to bodybuilders. Go to your source and pay the price. Guess you do not know that the production of HGH is an easily copyed method. Since 1997 it has been a simple process. Jintropin produces more HGH than any co. The Chinese are a sophisicated scienticic country. All HGH users are circumventing the law. My arms are 20.5 inches. Chest 49.5 Vascularity massive. I weigh 235 #'s. 34" waist. What doesn't make sense is when there is a co that makes 75% of HGH in China ( FACT) that they would need to produce fake HGH. The fact is that an "expert" in supplements or steriods or HGH would out of hand deny the access to real HGH through other sources than a pharmacy. I get my supply through customs without any problem so far. UKRAINE(not eukraine). The results are evident by my body composition. GET IT! You should post YOUR lab results! If you do not beleive that illegal substances can be shipped from other countries then you are gullible. I get steriods(illegal) via internet all the time. Jintropin does not have to make a fake product. The expense you quote for counterfeit HGH is not worth the effort when a reliable source known to everyone costs the same. I'd recomend it in place of USA FDA approved expensive HGH any day.
Your post is only a feeble effort to enhance your position on the forum.

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## ChuckEisenmench

You are like everyone else who wants bonified drugs. Stick with what you are doing. It takes forever to get any secret squirrel stuff.

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## ChuckEisenmench

A genuis? Worldwide drug expert? Yes Jintropin is a real HGH!!!!!!

I guess because I disagree with you I'm stupid.

Well I am not impressed with your knowledge!

Take your HGH to a LAB and prove it is real!

No, you haven't done it because you are convinced you know it all.

I am getting real Jintropin.

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## Sgt. Hartman

> FAKE! So how do I get results? Get real. Gensci site is authentic! Give me a reason that you are convinced all online websites ONLY sell fakes.


 Do you really think that GeneSci, due to selling via the internet and to US, would lose their license to produce GH, have millions of dollars seized from their bank acct's, and lose an unimagineable amount of tens or hundreds of millions of dollars of future earnings and then do the exact same thing all over again that cost them such a ridiculous amount of money? The chinese are sophisticated and extremely intelligent according to you, right?




> China is a large country. It has 100's of co's that are able to make HGH.


 Really? Then why don't you get your GH from those companies, it's much easier to come by and a fraction of the cost. 




> I searced the internet for Jintropin and found that an inexpensive alternitive is available to bodybuilders.


 But it's not real Jintropin or real GH. They're not stupid enough to sell their legitimate product via the internet so people like you can go around posting the website where it's being sold all over steroid forums for the whole world and law enforcement to see. 




> Guess you do not know that the production of HGH is an easily copyed method. Since 1997 it has been a simple process.


 You couldn't be more wrong, it's an extremely complicated process that requires equipment that costs in to 8 figures. 




> Jintropin produces more HGH than any co.


 Not only is that not true but it's a ridiculous statement that you can't back up. 


> The Chinese are a sophisicated scienticic country.


 More like an extremely intelligent country that has a level of greed even beyond our own who's learned every trick imagineable to rip us off and scam us. This is a country who poisons it's own people, I can't believe you're even serious about this. 




> My arms are 20.5 inches. Chest 49.5 Vascularity massive. I weigh 235 #'s. 34" waist.


 Did I miss where someone asked you your stats lol? I used to get yellow tops from a guy who has his pro card that dwarfs you. His size and his stats didn't make his ridiculous statement that his yellow tops were real GH any more credible when my BW showed it was completely bunk and if I'd continued taking them it'd probably killed me or caused serious health problems. You've been asked 2 questions that you still haven't answered. Are you a rep for jintropin and to post up your blood work results. For some reason you won't respond to either. 





> What doesn't make sense is when there is a co that makes 75% of HGH in China ( FACT)


 Not true and there's no way you can back up that statement. 




> The results are evident by my body composition. GET IT!


 LOL. You've been asked multiple times to post your blood work results and won't, but your body composition proves your gh is real lmfao. 




> I'd recomend it in place of USA FDA approved expensive HGH any day.


 You're a fool and I've wasted too much of my time with you already, I'm done. If you're happy with them then carry on but quit spouting off your ridiculous untrue statements trying to convince this board and the thousands of people who aren't members here but read this forum that your websites have real jins when you obviously have ulterior motives.

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## ChuckEisenmench

Yes JIntropin invented the method of production of HGH and had the patent. (FACT)
Yes Jintropin is the largest manufacturer of HGH in CHINA(FACT)
No there is no lab confirmation that Jintropin is fake(FACT)
Jintropin is shipped out of China via Europharm(FACT)
Ukraine, Russian Federation, Mexico are recipiants of Europharm (FACT)
Gensci has an accessiable website, not a source (FACT)
Mexico sells cocaine (FACT)
Jintropin does NOT sell via internet direct(FACT)
Production of HGH is a documented process and methods of confirmation of valid product are widely known. (FACT)
The making of HGH is not limited to a few(FACT)
Jintropin is still a giant co.(FACT)
Jintropin sells to other countries (FACT)
Vets on this forum have all the facts (UNTRUE)

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## DanB

you forgot the to give us lab printouts and answer if you are in any way connected to the sales or potential customer of jins or any hgh 

ill let sarge break down the rest of your "facts"

now please stop avoiding my above questions you have done several times already

also any offical figures to show that jins are largest distributor? still waiting for this

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## ChuckEisenmench

I will, to dispell once and for all to all concerned the BW you want so bad. I will continue using 4iu daily and get a gh serum test and IGF-1 test again. What do you think the results should be before I do it? Yes I want an answer now, before. Then you can not say the levels are caused by some mysterious compound that the Chinese use to confound the BW. If I do not get an answer why waste my time and money? You all know so much and are so astute about lab tests that I want no excuses for an elevated reading on the BW. If I fail the test , then I must eat crow.

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## DanB

where is the printout of your previous claimed results and also didnt answer question if source or rep and still havnt shown legit sources for all the claimed fiqures to prove your claims

you continue to change the suject and avoid every question, if there is an ounce of truth to nearly everything you say (which i highly doubt) then why continue to avoid and fail to cite the sources for the claims you make?

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## Sgt. Hartman

Why would you need to get another test done when you've said several times that you just got tested and your gh serum and igf-1 levels showed your gh is legit? Just post the results of the test you supposedly just had done.

And if your bw results showed your jins are real gh then you obviously already know where your levels should be.

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## gixxerboy1

> FAKE! So how do I get results? Get real. Gensci site is authentic! Give me a reason that you are convinced all online websites ONLY sell fakes. The whole world is waiting for your answer. ONLY you know where Jintropin is sold. I have not gotten any proof from you that this is the case. LINKS please. Ansomone is doubtful with their brand name. China is a large country. It has 100's of co's that are able to make HGH. Scammers? When you get lab results to verify this I will listen. Get BW send vial to some unnamed lab and then maybe you have some creditability! Who do you represent? Send results of tests. I am happy with Jintropin. I am just saying that you and others here are predudiced without cause. I searced the internet for Jintropin and found that an inexpensive alternitive is available to bodybuilders. Go to your source and pay the price. Guess you do not know that the production of HGH is an easily copyed method. Since 1997 it has been a simple process. Jintropin produces more HGH than any co. The Chinese are a sophisicated scienticic country. All HGH users are circumventing the law. My arms are 20.5 inches. Chest 49.5 Vascularity massive. I weigh 235 #'s. 34" waist. What doesn't make sense is when there is a co that makes 75% of HGH in China ( FACT) that they would need to produce fake HGH. The fact is that an "expert" in supplements or steriods or HGH would out of hand deny the access to real HGH through other sources than a pharmacy. I get my supply through customs without any problem so far. UKRAINE(not eukraine). The results are evident by my body composition. GET IT! You should post YOUR lab results! If you do not beleive that illegal substances can be shipped from other countries then you are gullible. I get steriods(illegal) via internet all the time. Jintropin does not have to make a fake product. The expense you quote for counterfeit HGH is not worth the effort when a reliable source known to everyone costs the same. I'd recomend it in place of USA FDA approved expensive HGH any day.
> Your post is only a feeble effort to enhance your position on the forum.


Can you read? I never said there is no real jins. They are just highly faked so i wouldnt recommend someone buying them.
Again you want to make accusations with no clue. I dont buy my gh at a pharmacy. It comes originally from a pharmacy in the US. So why would i order online deal with customs when i get 126iu of Serostim locally cheaper then you get 100iu of jins for? 
Yes i know drugs can be bought online from different countries. I've probably been doing it alot longer then you. Before you could just google for a source. 

And Sgt. already addressed the other things wrong with your post.

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## DanB

^^^^^^

and im still waiting for my questions to be answered by him

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## cyounger100

> ^^^^^^
> 
> and im still waiting for my questions to be answered by him



not too get in this argument you guys got going lol. But i have a question what makes anyone think a serum level test is a good legit way too know if your on hgh cause couldnt they just put igf or something else to raise your levels . I am only asking cause i see on other boards they swear by it and i am not a believer i will never run generics again not worth the health risk for me

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## marcus300

> not too get in this argument you guys got going lol. But i have a question what makes anyone think a serum level test is a good legit way too know if your on hgh cause couldnt they just put igf or something else to raise your levels . I am only asking cause i see on other boards they swear by it and i am not a believer i will never run generics again not worth the health risk for me


The Chinese put many different chemicals with their HGH to create flase readings on blood tests, also the test are a mine field and you can have different results depending on when the blood was drawn, how long it was stored and how long before the blood gets tested plus many other variables.

There is enough experience, knowledge and feedback from many different bodybuilders in this thread to come to the assumption that any hgh from China is not worth it. Even the Pharm grade labs are firing out fakes to the black market so if you want to risk getting these dangerous chemicals or total bunk hgh carry on buying but for me I wont be buying again, not after ive had it confirmed from even the pharm grade companies they are selling bunk hgh.

If your happy with your hgh carry on, your choice!

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## Nincompoop

Convincing argument Marcus 100% won't buy from china unless things change and they can be trusted, but still no one has posted the legitimate website of gensci which you should be allowed to do as they do not themselves sell to individuals and are just the producer of the somatropin.

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## Sheven

things to change in what? they will not change for the better because its a money stake not anything else. there is good HGH in china, no doubt about that, but low chance to find it on the advertising boards or at people that throw on the internet lists and expect your order.

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## bl3diot

Hello everyone,
brand spanking new on this forum love all the info on hgh fakes and hgh in general, so far just finished reading the 34th page. Jumping on the hgh wagon I heard great things about hgh and the wonders it does (if real) and I purchased mine mainly to lose BF around my waist area. I got my jintropin through my friend's guy and I'm very discouraged/sad after reading all of the stuff that's coming out of China. I ordered 3 kits from this guy and the packaging feels actually nice and little sturdy (for a paper packaging) and the vials inside seem in place tight; takes little force with my finger to pull them out. There is even a manual/instruction list.
Now with all that said I'm very interested in acquiring pharmagrade hgh. I have one friend who works in the industry and I might be able to get what i need from this person. My question however is does pharma hgh come in vials as well? or it comes in syringes filled with hgh ready to go? or go through a doctor? and if I do do I have to visit each time to get the 2/ius from my doc? (assuming I complete all doctor requirements)

Any comments are welcome.

P.S. Love all the information on this site. can't get enough. Keep it up.

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## Sheven

fake bl3diot...sorry.

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## ChuckEisenmench

JINTROPIN)GENESCIENCE PHARMACY CO. ) IS THE MOST PROFITABLE CO PRODUCING biopharmacuticals IN CHINA (fact) lOOK IT UP! I found several more websites in Russia, Latvia, Mexico, Ukraine, Etc that sell Jintropin produced by Gensci. If you can not certify this by LINKS(DAN B) then you are like your avatar (an ass). The blood tests performed by USA labs(LABCORE) are fooled by the chinese! What a F***ing joke lol. If HGH can only be ligetamate by having a brand name(which gixxerboy1 says even they can be faked). Who the F*** do you think you are talking to. The world is waiting for your credentials!!! YEH I had to spend more money to check my HGH by BW (HG blood serum and IGF-1) through privatemdlabs.com. I'm going to blast you assholes severaly when the tests come back elevated. I can only hear you say some rediculus chinese conspricy caused the results. I even heard some asshole say BLOOD WORK IS NOT RELIABLE DUE TO CONTAMINATION OR OTHER unprofessional technets. Blow me ! CHINA produces 70% of HGH in the world (FACT)! I WILL POST MY RESULTS WHEN THEY RETURN unlike gixxerboy1 who said he would.

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## gixxerboy1

what is your problem and attitude. 
For the 10th time there is real jin's They are just hard to get. So i dont recommend people buy them because odds are you will get fakes.
Just like the one distributor you listed is a known scammer
yes people fake (counterfeit) pharm brands, just like people fake AAS. And i dont know why you denie that
2nd the info about gen-sci is posted by the same websites you are buying it from. So im sorry if you take their sales pitch as fact. 
I never said i was going for blood work. Why would i waste my time going. My gh comes from CVS. I don't need blood work to confirm its real. 

You also need to stop breaking the rules. There is no flaming as there is no discussion of sources or distributors. 
You really sound like you have some agenda

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## bl3diot

Great...Sheven you just "made my day"..j/k. Funny thing is when I confronted this dude about gen-sci having their license revoked & not being able to produce hgh, he didn't know what to reply! Definitely getting my refund back. On a positive note, gixxerboy1 you mentioned that you are getting yours from CVS. Does it come in vials like other generics (powder) or other form (liquid)?

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## gixxerboy1

> Great...Sheven you just "made my day"..j/k. Funny thing is when I confronted this dude about gen-sci having their license revoked & not being able to produce hgh, he didn't know what to reply! Definitely getting my refund back. On a positive note, gixxerboy1 you mentioned that you are getting yours from CVS. Does it come in vials like other generics (powder) or other form (liquid)?


mine are powder, but some brands do come liquid. They have pens also

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## DanB

> JINTROPIN)GENESCIENCE PHARMACY CO. ) IS THE MOST PROFITABLE CO PRODUCING biopharmacuticals IN CHINA (fact) lOOK IT UP! I found several more websites in Russia, Latvia, Mexico, Ukraine, Etc that sell Jintropin produced by Gensci. If you can not certify this by LINKS(DAN B) then you are like your avatar (an ass). The blood tests performed by USA labs(LABCORE) are fooled by the chinese! What a F***ing joke lol. If HGH can only be ligetamate by having a brand name(which gixxerboy1 says even they can be faked). Who the F*** do you think you are talking to. The world is waiting for your credentials!!! YEH I had to spend more money to check my HGH by BW (HG blood serum and IGF-1) through privatemdlabs.com. I'm going to blast you assholes severaly when the tests come back elevated. I can only hear you say some rediculus chinese conspricy caused the results. I even heard some asshole say BLOOD WORK IS NOT RELIABLE DUE TO CONTAMINATION OR OTHER unprofessional technets. Blow me ! CHINA produces 70% of HGH in the world (FACT)! I WILL POST MY RESULTS WHEN THEY RETURN unlike gixxerboy1 who said he would.


you ar a bullshuttr

you claimed to have gh serum in 60's so where are these results

havnt asnwered my question if you are a rep

and post the links where you are getting info on figures and profits, i have done far more research then you on these subjects along with sarge and gix so between the 3 of us we have not seen anything that coincides with it, your the one claiming it so you need to back your claims it is that simple because more experiencd people then yourself dont agree and believe it to be a number you picked from the sky

the reason you cant post it is because you are a rep and you dreamed up these figures in your had to get some business from newbies who havnt done their research but see your posts of this amazing cheap pharm grade that is easily available, so they pm you asking how and you either sell dirctly or refer them and earn a comission

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## Sheven

> Great...Sheven you just "made my day"..j/k. Funny thing is when I confronted this dude about gen-sci having their license revoked & not being able to produce hgh, he didn't know what to reply! Definitely getting my refund back. On a positive note, gixxerboy1 you mentioned that you are getting yours from CVS. Does it come in vials like other generics (powder) or other form (liquid)?


bro the giveaway is the seal, it should contain security fiber threads on the numbers. yours has nothing. the gen-sci license being revoked is false information, they still manufacture but mostly just for the legit market.

I meet with some of GenSci management this summer and their sales are really strictly controlled (by them). Finding GenSci labeled as Jintropin and sold on the black market is a rarity and something almost impossible to find, they do make it for the registered brands in Mexico, Russia, Hong Kong and Ukraine but the price is much higher than usual generics. All other Jintropin is counterfeited and the seals can prove that as all are without the security fibers.

PS: ChuckEisenmench has a totally unacceptable attitude IMO.

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## ChuckEisenmench

Hey DanB no flaming! And Sheven did the management tell you that *********IS a distributor in those countries they sell to. Ukraine, Russian Federation, Mexico etc.? My boxes have all the security fiber threads, numbers and logos that do certify real Gensci HGH.

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## Sheven

> Hey DanB no flaming! And Sheven did the management tell you that ********** IS a distributor in those countries they sell to. Ukraine, Russian Federation, Mexico etc.? My boxes have all the security fiber threads, numbers and logos that do certify real Gensci HGH.


I don't care what you are saying. You just can't walk in here writing like an illiterate and calling people asses especially members that are Vets or valuable members. I know who is what and what is who and your attitude only transpires one thing: REP!

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## gixxerboy1

> Hey DanB no flaming! And Sheven did the management tell you that xxxxxxxx IS a distributor in those countries they sell to. Ukraine, Russian Federation, Mexico etc.? My boxes have all the security fiber threads, numbers and logos that do certify real Gensci HGH.


this is your last warning. You have been told many times you cant list distributors.
your constant pushing of them and your insistence makes you look very suspicious

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## *Admin*

A final warning has been given and I will suspend if rules are violated again...


*admin*

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## cyounger100

> mine are powder, but some brands do come liquid. They have pens also




Yea and the pens are awesome def my fav so far

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

Got BW work back again and it is still elevated.

GH 9.9

IGF-1 197

This is with 4iu daily for 5 weeks. I'm 65 and feel these results show real progress.

No more distributors or websites to be posted by me.

Thanks for the warning!

Hope to continue to post any info not against the rules in the future.

----------


## DanB

where is the printout of these claimed results?

it has 0 credability without this

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

I don't know how to post the labcor results.

----------


## blackfiveo

Its easy look at my thread.
about 3 or 4 down, I did my tests at labcorp as well

----------


## DanB

> I don't know how to post the labcor results.


ask them to email then copy and paste, it is simple and somthing that you have been asked to do since your last claimed tst appromimately 4-5 months ago

ask them to email the results, they facilitate this request regularly so no reason why they wont facilitate you in your request

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

Why do you think igf-1 at 197 is elevated? 

Regardless of who's reference ranges you're using I haven't seen the high end below the low 200's even for a 65 yr old. 

I've seen mine 4 times what yours is on 8iu........a simple test cycle will elevate igf-1 as well.

----------


## DanB

> Why do you think igf-1 at 197 is elevated? 
> 
> Regardless of who's reference ranges you're using I haven't seen the high end below the low 200's even for a 65 yr old. 
> 
> I've seen mine 4 times what yours is on 8iu........a simple test cycle will elevate igf-1 as well.


if these are the actual readings (doubtful) and not just numbers he picked out of his head (likely) 

then they are what you would see for 200-300mcg of a ghrp such as ghrp2

but i dont believe a thing from him until we get the lab report

he has been caught out on blatent lies so many times i have lost count

we are still waiting on the sources for ''jin 75% marketshare"

i swear if this guy told me his name i would still ask to see his i.d, i just dont understand why people join a forum to talk utter rubbish, its a sign of serious psychiatric issues

i aint flaming the guy, none of what i said is untrue or even exaggeratted is it?

----------


## marcus300

Two friends of mine are using the jins from Russia and they say they are legit and much like the old jins 10 yrs old what you got from China direct. I haven't tried them myself yet but I know 3 other acquaintances who have just ordered them and will give me feedback once they start using them.

Thats the reason why I haven't said much with the current debate because I wanted to wait till these guys have been on them for some weeks, on first reports these jins do seem to be legit but I much prefer trying them myself but again these guys do know what they talking about been using hgh for 15yrs+.


Update on Ankie - I can assure you that they are selling fake counterfeit to the underground market, they still produce legit hgh but not to us bodybuilder, the best you will get is a few boxes legit and the rest fake. They also own the fake anasome site, some of the fakes contain dangerous chemicals and other absolutely nothing or some kind of anit-diuretic hormone. Stay clear because they lie and not reputable anymore

----------


## bl3diot

> bro the giveaway is the seal, it should contain security fiber threads on the numbers. yours has nothing. the gen-sci license being revoked is false information, they still manufacture but mostly just for the legit market.
> 
> I meet with some of GenSci management this summer and their sales are really strictly controlled (by them). Finding GenSci labeled as Jintropin and sold on the black market is a rarity and something almost impossible to find, they do make it for the registered brands in Mexico, Russia, Hong Kong and Ukraine but the price is much higher than usual generics. All other Jintropin is counterfeited and the seals can prove that as all are without the security fibers.
> 
> PS: ChuckEisenmench has a totally unacceptable attitude IMO.


The reason I mentioned that their license was revoked, is because few pages back under this thread somebody I believe said that gen sci got their license revoked around 2007-2008 because of the Olympics in China? 
Either way again thank you for the info.

----------


## gixxerboy1

> The reason I mentioned that their license was revoked, is because few pages back under this thread somebody I believe said that gen sci got their license revoked around 2007-2008 because of the Olympics in China? 
> Either way again thank you for the info.


it was because of the raw deal bust. 
They didnt loose there license to produce gh. But now they are limited to what countries they can sell to and a watched alot more

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

Reguardless of what you say, Labcorp says the range for IGF_1 is 47-191

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> bro the giveaway is the seal, it should contain security fiber threads on the numbers. yours has nothing. the gen-sci license being revoked is false information, they still manufacture but mostly just for the legit market.
> 
> PS: ChuckEisenmench has a totally unacceptable attitude IMO.


FYI-My jin came with authentication threads, i thought i was good to go, but after using i found it to be junk and put on about 10lbs of water weight. The more i used the worse i got. It was from one of the sites in question. 
Again Seven thanks for the find on the Prednisone research, it makes a lot of sense and very clever, as prednisone does help the joints, but so damaging.

----------


## swithuk

> Two friends of mine are using the jins from Russia and they say they are legit and much like the old jins 10 yrs old what you got from China direct. I haven't tried them myself yet but I know 3 other acquaintances who have just ordered them and will give me feedback once they start using them.
> 
> Thats the reason why I haven't said much with the current debate because I wanted to wait till these guys have been on them for some weeks, on first reports these jins do seem to be legit but I much prefer trying them myself but again these guys do know what they talking about been using hgh for 15yrs+.
> 
> 
> Update on Ankie - I can assure you that they are selling fake counterfeit to the underground market, they still produce legit hgh but not to us bodybuilder, the best you will get is a few boxes legit and the rest fake. They also own the fake anasome site, some of the fakes contain dangerous chemicals and other absolutely nothing or some kind of anit-diuretic hormone. Stay clear because they lie and not reputable anymore


thanks for the info 
can i ask what i.u these guys are running daily ?

----------


## EasyDoesIt

@ Swithuk, so there is no confusion, mine were not from Russia.

----------


## swithuk

> @ Swithuk, so there is no confusion, mine were not from Russia.


ok mate thanks for that , so yours had the chinese writing ?

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

s

It's Russian alphabet. 

Chuck

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> ok mate thanks for that , so yours had the chinese writing ?


Yes Chinese Writing.

----------


## swithuk

> s
> 
> It's Russian alphabet. 
> 
> Chuck


there are different ones mate

----------


## swithuk

> Yes Chinese Writing.


ok thanks . good to know .............

----------


## Sheven

> FYI-My jin came with authentication threads, i thought i was good to go, but after using i found it to be junk and put on about 10lbs of water weight. The more i used the worse i got. It was from one of the sites in question. 
> Again Seven thanks for the find on the Prednisone research, it makes a lot of sense and very clever, as prednisone does help the joints, but so damaging.


I didn't say that if it has the threads is 100% original but the absence of them is a 100% fake. However, are you sure you had the threads like they should be (inserted in the label and able to be removed just by pinning them with a needle) or where they just printed on ? i've seen many counterfeits with the threads printed.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> I didn't say that if it has the threads is 100% original but the absence of them is a 100% fake. However, are you sure you had the threads like they should be (inserted in the label and able to be removed just by pinning them with a needle) or where they just printed on ? i've seen many counterfeits with the threads printed.


I did not pull them out, but i used my fingernail to find them and they matched up with the label on the website. After thinking about it, i was not really surprised, as i just figured if the company that owns the website is pumping out fakes, it would only seem correct for them to create there own fake counterfeiting label. That really convinced me not to buy Chinese as i figured they have it down pretty well. At that point the generics and another Chinese brand i was using prior were seeming to change in quality. I think at one point 2 or 3 years back i had real hgh from China, but overall once i switched to Pharm grade, the difference was major. That has been my experience and where i live everyone around here is selling generic junk for anywhere from 180.00-250.00 a kit. Most of the people here are pretty uneducated about it. 
Thanks for your reply!

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

1350777

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

There is no similarity between Chinese and Russian alphabet.

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

removed

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

Hope these files can be accessed DanB

----------


## Far from massive

[QUOTE=ChuckEisenmench;Address changed to protect the innocent
Hope these files can be accessed DanB[/QUOTE]

Chuck, just in case you are not aware you just posted all your personal information. If you did this by accident you can edit the post and remove the attachment.

----------


## cyounger100

Hope these files can be accessed DanB[/QUOTE]

Hey buddy i would.take that down for.ur safety now it has all ur personal info in it maybe a mod can take down if not

----------


## Far from massive

Hey C, 

Chuck can alter his own post to remove his personal information, however he can not alter yours so you may want to do so as I have done with mine.

----------


## swithuk

sorry for my ignorance but ive looked the chucks results.can someone translate them for me ? are they good ?

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

I posted the results of my labcorp BW to refute the accucations of being a liar and bullshiter by Dan B. It took me hrs to get it on the forum after all the trouble and learning and trying to be honest. I am now told to remove my posts because they have personal info. I will do so only after DanB reads and replys. If it is against forum rules then I will do so. That will cause me more tech ability than I have now. Thank you of those who have advised me against doing this. Please tell me how to operate the forum posts to send DanB the info without causing any angst to those of you who care about the possible damage to my personal info.

----------


## marcus300

> I posted the results of my labcorp BW to refute the accucations of being a liar and bullshiter by Dan B. It took me hrs to get it on the forum after all the trouble and learning and trying to be honest. I am now told to remove my posts because they have personal info. I will do so only after DanB reads and replys. If it is against forum rules then I will do so. That will cause me more tech ability than I have now. Thank you of those who have advised me against doing this. Please tell me how to operate the forum posts to send DanB the info without causing any angst to those of you who care about the possible damage to my personal info.


All you need to do is edit your personal information out, you posted your name etc which isnt a wise thing to do on a steroid forum. Just blank it out and re-post it.

----------


## Far from massive

Chuck_1 (2).pdfChuck_2.pdf

Chuck was not telling you to remove your personal information, just letting you know that it was there as I assumed you would not want anyone viewing to know your name, home address, birthdate etc. with the amount of information that is on the forms identity theft is a distinct possibility.

Anyway I know some of this technical crap like editing electronic files can be a pain in the ass for some, so I have taken the liberty of editing the files for you. If you want just copy and paste them to your post.

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

Thanks for all your help. I was responding to DanB who has, with some cause doubted my numbers. I only after months of harassment posted all the info I had without knowing the problems this has with identity theft. If you are able to forward my lab reports to DanB I would appreciate it.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Thanks for all your help. I was responding to DanB who has, with some cause doubted my numbers. I only after months of harassment posted all the info I had without knowing the problems this has with identity theft. If you are able to forward my lab reports to DanB I would appreciate it.


The other members were being sincere in letting you know about the personal information that was being exposed on your lab reports. In spite of what you may perceive based on the posts in this thread you should be thankful they addressed the lab reports. I'm in no way being disrespectful, i just know the security risk's related to exposure..... The internet can be very informative and very scary. Once something is placed on the net it can leave a thumb print for life. The information that you accidentally posted through a simple background check will show addresses, criminal reports, telephone numbers associates, relatives etc. You can purchase a subscription to a background check company for as little as 25.00 a month. Just an FYI regarding the internet in general. 
Respectfully,

----------


## lovbyts

> Thanks for all your help. I was responding to DanB who has, with some cause doubted my numbers. I only after months of harassment posted all the info I had without knowing the problems this has with identity theft. If you are able to forward my lab reports to DanB I would appreciate it.


You still need to go back and remove your original posts with your info. Just FYI

----------


## DanB

> Thanks for all your help. I was responding to DanB who has, with some cause doubted my numbers. I only after months of harassment posted all the info I had without knowing the problems this has with identity theft. If you are able to forward my lab reports to DanB I would appreciate it.


you posted 2 lab figures in last few months with nothing to back it up, 3 months i am waiting on first result and 1 month on latest

pm me both your lab results with something proving legitimacy in the pic. i.e todays newspaper

and why it has taken you this long is beyond me

and by the way i am far from the only member to be skeptical to put it nicely

but send me the pm, if im wrong i will post an open apology in here

----------


## cyounger100

> sorry for my ignorance but ive looked the chucks results.can someone translate them for me ? are they good ?



Yes they are good if.accurate 51 i believe ir serum was 
and on how many ius are u taking and your age be the reason also.for high number since ur over 50 from ir b date

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

You know I'm done trying to satify you with authentic documentation.

----------


## marcus300

I've had excellent feedback from the Russian Jins another 2 guys say they are 100% and they had blood serum tests done. I've still not purchased any yet but I do intend to.

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

[ATTACH]128776*******[/ATTACH][ATTACH]1*******28777[/ATTACH]

DanB

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

If you're happy with your results then by all means carry on, but no need for the hostile pm's.

Not sure why it's so important to you that you have confirmation from this board that your gh is legit.......

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

Because I was called a liar and bullshitter by DanB,

----------


## DanB

> Because I was called a liar and bullshitter by DanB,


yes and you still claim you can prove me wrong but im still waiting on the pm with 2 sets of labs so i still stand by my comments

i just got a serum test, it was 96.6, does anybody believe that?nope

proof is needed otherwise its very easy to just type a few numbers like i done above, and this is months that i have requested proof and it still hasnt been provided

so my claims of bullshit are justified

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

When I PM you I don't see where to add attachments!

----------


## swithuk

sorry to go off topic ... but im in contact with a supplier who says they cannot send me the g.h by post as it requires special temperature conditions and cannot be sent ......

is this true ? i thought that it was ok to send via post as long as water had not been added to it yet ?

----------


## Tron3219

> sorry to go off topic ... but im in contact with a supplier who says they cannot send me the g.h by post as it requires special temperature conditions and cannot be sent ......
> 
> is this true ? i thought that it was ok to send via post as long as water had not been added to it yet ?


Had the same question, well kinda, supplier didn't say they couldn't but I was wondering if it would be degraded from shipping. 

Also, to test to see if its real you can pin it and 4 hours later get ur hgh serum levels tested right? Is there anything that can skew this number? Or a better way to test it?

----------


## MyteeJ

> sorry to go off topic ... but im in contact with a supplier who says they cannot send me the g.h by post as it requires special temperature conditions and cannot be sent ......
> 
> is this true ? i thought that it was ok to send via post as long as water had not been added to it yet ?


Not true.

It must be shipped with cooling packs that can keep it within the proper temp range. Unactivated GH still needs to be temp controlled.

My guess is that if it's coming from a far distance they may be concerned with you getting your gh in it's proper condition.

----------


## swithuk

> Not true.
> 
> It must be shipped with cooling packs that can keep it within the proper temp range. Unactivated GH still needs to be temp controlled.
> 
> My guess is that if it's coming from a far distance they may be concerned with you getting your gh in it's proper condition.


so does that mean if it is not cool packed then its defiantly off . im sure my previous source was good and they never cool packed my g.h

does dhl,for example, charge alot more to do that ? 

what about a couple of years ago when ankiebio was good and everyone in the u.s were buying ,they were cool packed .....?

----------


## lovbyts

> sorry to go off topic ... but im in contact with a supplier who says they cannot send me the g.h by post as it requires special temperature conditions and cannot be sent ......
> 
> is this true ? i thought that it was ok to send via post as long as water had not been added to it yet ?





> Had the same question, well kinda, supplier didn't say they couldn't but I was wondering if it would be degraded from shipping. 
> 
> Also, to test to see if its real you can pin it and 4 hours later get ur hgh serum levels tested right? Is there anything that can skew this number? Or a better way to test it?


That's actually a pretty good sign since yes hgh needs to be keep cool. They should be able to send it inside a Styrofoam container with a couple of cool packs though. As long as it does not take more than 3 days it should be perfectly fine. If it's like a week+ I would worry.

----------


## swithuk

> That's actually a pretty good sign since yes hgh needs to be keep cool. They should be able to send it inside a Styrofoam container with a couple of cool packs though. As long as it does not take more than 3 days it should be perfectly fine. If it's like a week+ I would worry.


yes mine takes a week each time .................they wont send to the u.k themselves for this reason

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

goodbye

----------


## Sheven

> Had the same question, well kinda, supplier didn't say they couldn't but I was wondering if it would be degraded from shipping. 
> 
> Also, to test to see if its real you can pin it and 4 hours later get ur hgh serum levels tested right? Is there anything that can skew this number? Or a better way to test it?


unless they have stored it for long time at room temperature and then ship it in some heat conditions either at departure or anywhere on the way (sitting on the airport in plain summer sun) you have no problem with shipped gh. the lyophilized gh is pretty stable...

----------


## swithuk

> unless they have stored it for long time at room temperature and then ship it in some heat conditions either at departure or anywhere on the way (sitting on the airport in plain summer sun) you have no problem with shipped gh. the lyophilized gh is pretty stable...


good to know , thanks

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

Update! The new replacement batch of Ansomone I am using is real, unlike the last batch I received back in the summer. It's the strongest batch yet. I want some more if I can get the same quality. Everyone at the gym thinks I am prepping for a show and I am using only 3-4ius daily. Veins and cuts everywhere and I am not doing cardio or eating low carbs, just a clean diet.

My thoughts are order it only during the cooler months then if it's bad we know for a fact they are selectively scamming us because there will be no excuse of heat degrading it.

----------


## marcus300

> Update! The new replacement batch of Ansomone I am using is real, unlike the last batch I received back in the summer. It's the strongest batch yet. I want some more if I can get the same quality. Everyone at the gym thinks I am prepping for a show and I am using only 3-4ius daily. Veins and cuts everywhere and I am not doing cardio or eating low carbs, just a clean diet.
> 
> My thoughts are order it only during the cooler months then if it's bad we know for a fact they are selectively scamming us because there will be no excuse of heat degrading it.




The only reason why you got 100% hgh
from ankie is because they were concerned about the negative reports on
the forums and also the bad blood serum test what have been posted. They
are selling fakes to the underground market and its a toss up if you get
real or fakes. They even have a fake site what they pretend not to have
anything to do with. It wasn't the heat what caused the hgh to not work
it was because they are selling fakes and they wanted to quieten you up
by offering you free hgh like they have done with other friends I know.
Which pharm grade company offer free hgh if your not happy with the product
they have sent you and if you tell them your going to spread the word all
over the internet....At the end of the day they cant be trusted.

----------


## human project

> Update! The new replacement batch of Ansomone I am using is real, unlike the last batch I received back in the summer. It's the strongest batch yet. I want some more if I can get the same quality. Everyone at the gym thinks I am prepping for a show and I am using only 3-4ius daily. Veins and cuts everywhere and I am not doing cardio or eating low carbs, just a clean diet.
> 
> My thoughts are order it only during the cooler months then if it's bad we know for a fact they are selectively scamming us because there will be no excuse of heat degrading it.


I've been seeing this brand everywhere lately. Is there specific batch numbers or sites that are legit or real? I'd be willing to give them a try on price alone.

----------


## swithuk

> I've been seeing this brand everywhere lately. Is there specific batch numbers or sites that are legit or real? I'd be willing to give them a try on price alone.


i wouldnt bother mate they are selectively scamming . *if* they did sell you real g.h initially they would just send you fake further down the track . thats what they did to me

----------


## swithuk

> The only reason why you got 100% hgh
> from ankie is because they were concerned about the negative reports on
> the forums and also the bad blood serum test what have been posted. They
> are selling fakes to the underground market and its a toss up if you get
> real or fakes. They even have a fake site what they pretend not to have
> anything to do with. It wasn't the heat what caused the hgh to not work
> it was because they are selling fakes and they wanted to quieten you up
> by offering you free hgh like they have done with other friends I know.
> Which pharm grade company offer free hgh if your not happy with the product
> ...


I agree 100% . at best its all very suspicious and not worth the risk

----------


## marcus300

> I've been seeing this brand everywhere lately. Is there specific batch numbers or sites that are legit or real? I'd be willing to give them a try on price alone.


If you read the last few pages of this thread it will give you a good idea what ankie are up to.

----------


## human project

> If you read the last few pages of this thread it will give you a good idea what ankie are up to.


Honestly I haven't read the entire thread but intend to. I need to find a good generic "cheap" brand.

----------


## marcus300

> Honestly I haven't read the entire thread but intend to. I need to find a good generic "cheap" brand.


I wouldn't buy cheap generic gh, its a complete waste of money and you would be better finding a pharm grade, it works out cheaper in the long run especially when you waste your money on all the generics. I know the thread will take some reading but it will give you a more of an idea about cheap or generics.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

I have to agree with marcus-This forum has obviously had an impact on ankie and they went to the trouble to satisfy Ronnie whose credibility is very high to others on this forum. Unfortunately HGH is not product you can just go to the store and pick a different brand if you do not like the brand you are using. After intentionally selling fake product and getting CAUGHT, Ankie made a business decision to make up a potent batch and reverse buyers opinion of them. Now basically they have an endorsement of how good there product is on this forum. I do not know what there strategy is from this point. It's kind of like:"I caught my girlfriend (wife) cheating for the 10th time". Ok do i stay with her?? They may decide to just make a very weak product rather than completely bogus. Kind of a tough call for us buyers when it comes to HGH, options for most are pretty slim-go to the DOC and pay top price for pharm grade. That would be my choice and that is the route i would go. What do you do when you just bought 20 or thirty kits and half or ALL are junk!!! I never plan on risking purchasing junk again. I would say that all of these companies selling fakes are going to continue selling them. Ronnie: You may not get another bad kit again and that's probably a very unusual situation. Bottom line is i still say there selling fake is not due to heat, it's intentional! Just something to think about.

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

What it confirmed to me is that ankie does indeed make real GH for their local doctors in China and that's what I received this last time around. It also showed me that others (like us bodybuilders) outside that loop in China are being scammed Big-Time and their government is involved. 

I would also like to make note that they still owe me $500 worth of Ansomone GH they never replaced and probably never will. Also, one of the 10iu vials was hard like concrete and would not mix up (just like the ones I received back in the summer months) so one of the boxes was counterfeit.

*I DO NOT TRUST THEM!*

----------


## marcus300

> What it confirmed to me is that ankie does indeed make real GH for their local doctors in China and that's what I received this last time around. It also showed me that others (like us bodybuilders) outside that loop in China are being scammed Big-Time and their government is involved. 
> 
> I would also like to make note that they still owe me $500 worth of Ansomone GH they never replaced and probably never will. Also, one of the 10iu vials was hard like concrete and would not mix up (just like the ones I received back in the summer months) so one of the boxes was counterfeit.
> 
> *I DO NOT TRUST THEM!*


It also sounds like the new stuff we got was more potent than the original stuff which makes you believe that they made it that way so we would give good reviews on the boards. If they can make different strengths of hgh then its plain to see what they are up to. I do think they are selling a mixture of good and fake gh to the underground and its not totally fake but even if you get half good half fake its still not worth taking the risk

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> What it confirmed to me is that ankie does indeed make real GH for their local doctors in China and that's what I received this last time around. It also showed me that others (like us bodybuilders) outside that loop in China are being scammed Big-Time and their government is involved. 
> 
> I would also like to make note that they still owe me $500 worth of Ansomone GH they never replaced and probably never will. Also, one of the 10iu vials was hard like concrete and would not mix up (just like the ones I received back in the summer months) so one of the boxes was counterfeit.
> 
> *I DO NOT TRUST THEM!*






> It also sounds like the new stuff we got was more potent than the original stuff which makes you believe that they made it that way so we would give good reviews on the boards. If they can make different strengths of hgh then its plain to see what they are up to. I do think they are selling a mixture of good and fake gh to the underground and its not totally fake but even if you get half good half fake its still not worth taking the risk


They must be able to cut it up somehow using less of what they use to cut it for potency.
It's kind of funny how there attempt at satisfying Ronnie with a more potent product fell short by throwing in a bottle that was hard as a rock. They may have done that because there nature to screw people just can't escape them. The other thought is that there waiting for Ronnie to call them and tell them about the bottle that was hard and not able to use, they will tell him that it may have been heat damaged like the other ones. Then Ronnie can ask them if the weather temperature changed in China, since they never had a heat damage problem for 10 years. Or Ronnie can ask them if there cutting back on there quality control people and using there cleaning crew for quality control. LOL--Sometimes you have to say ridiculous stuff back at people to make them feel as ignorant as they sound.

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

> It also sounds like the new stuff we got was more potent than the original stuff which makes you believe that they made it that way so we would give good reviews on the boards. If they can make different strengths of hgh then its plain to see what they are up to. I do think they are selling a mixture of good and fake gh to the underground and its not totally fake but even if you get half good half fake its still not worth taking the risk


Exactly! This last batch at 3ius is every bit as strong as 8 ius of the first batch I got that had real GH in it. And the summer batch was just some sort of fake GH powder that did absolutely nothing! I also find it messed up that ITRAIN (Sponsor of ANSOMONE from professional muscle) has yet to come over here on this board and be honest about what's really going on.

----------


## swithuk

> Exactly! This last batch at 3ius is every bit as strong as 8 ius of the first batch I got that had real GH in it. And the summer batch was just some sort of fake GH powder that did absolutely nothing! I also find it messed up that ITRAIN (Sponsor of ANSOMONE from professional muscle) has yet to come over here on this board and be honest about what's really going on.


great point ................!

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

> It also sounds like the new stuff we got was more potent than the original stuff which makes you believe that they made it that way so we would give good reviews on the boards. If they can make different strengths of hgh then its plain to see what they are up to. I do think they are selling a mixture of good and fake gh to the underground and its not totally fake but even if you get half good half fake its still not worth taking the risk


That's the only logical explanation. I am a bit overwhelmed at the results I have obtained in such a short period of time using only 3-4ius per day.

----------


## swithuk

> That's the only logical explanation. I am a bit overwhelmed at the results I have obtained in such a short period of time using only 3-4ius per day.


taking all this in to account . whats your next move ? will you continue to buy from them and chance it or will you look elsewhere ?

----------


## Ronnie Rowland

> taking all this in to account . whats your next move ? will you continue to buy from them and chance it or will you look elsewhere ?


I myself will have to take the advice I would offer others and decline from ordering from ankie again. They must be a very greedy bunch to have denied me that $500 they owed me. They could have made a fortune off of referrals alone from this board if they would have just sold us legit GH.

Let's never forget this fact- "I was ignored by ankie for several months after making complaints about receiving multiples vials of Ansomone that were hard as concrete and would not mix in water. What did mix was fake. They would never have replaced some of the GH they owed me had it not been for me and marcus calling them out on this board. You can't run from the truth!"

----------


## EasyDoesIt

In the mind of Ankie personell, they do not want to fully comply as they know how many thousands of fake kits sold and the buyers of those kits will be lined up for there returns. They just figure to obtain new customers. Not that it's a good move on there part, but i'm guessing that's there strategy.

----------


## marcus300

> I myself will have to take the advice I would offer others and decline from ordering from ankie again. They must be a very greedy bunch to have denied me that $500 they owed me. They could have made a fortune off of referrals alone from this board if they would have just sold us legit GH.
> 
> Let's never forget this fact- "I was ignored by ankie for several months after making complaints about receiving multiples vials of Ansomone that were hard as concrete and would not mix in water. What did mix was fake. They would never have replaced some of the GH they owed me had it not been for me and marcus calling them out on this board. You can't run from the truth!"


They only started to take notice when we told them about splashing it all over the boards, then they decided to email us back and to try and shut us up  :Smilie: ...........

I feel the same way Ronnie and at this moment wouldnt buy anything from Ankie again

----------


## hellokitty08

Well this is good to know. My boyfriends friend used blue tops but he lost weight fast and he's a big dude. It worked for him though..

----------


## marcus300

> Well this is good to know. My boyfriends friend used blue tops but he lost weight fast and he's a big dude. It worked for him though..


 wouldnt of been hgh what was inside the blue tops. fast weight loss isnt what happens when you use hgh.

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## gixxerboy1

> Well this is good to know. My boyfriends friend used blue tops but he lost weight fast and he's a big dude. It worked for him though..


It was either the diet and otherstuff he was taking. It coukd have been a peptide in the vial that helped, but it wasnt gh

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## Mark999

> It was either the diet and otherstuff he was taking. It coukd have been a peptide in the vial that helped, but it wasnt gh


or HGH Fragment

----------


## swithuk

do i have to avoid sugar (food/drink) even more so than usual because im running hgh ? (5i.u e.d)

----------


## kaptainkeezy04

> do i have to avoid sugar (food/drink) even more so than usual because im running hgh ? (5i.u e.d)


lol ur running gh and you don't know the answer to this question?

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## swithuk

> lol ur running gh and you don't know the answer to this question?


no not 100% . i dont know to what extent im supposed to drop the intake of sugar . 
during the week i juice alot of vegetables with fruit and i know this has alot of sugar in but its natural ......?

i lay off alcohol until the weekend . but are you supposed to cut it out completely if your on g.h ?

what exactly is its effect if your on g.h ?

----------


## kaptainkeezy04

> no not 100% . i dont know to what extent im supposed to drop the intake of sugar . 
> during the week i juice alot of vegetables with fruit and i know this has alot of sugar in but its natural ......?
> 
> i lay off alcohol until the weekend . but are you supposed to cut it out completely if your on g.h ?
> 
> what exactly is its effect if your on g.h ?


omg. diet stays however you want it on GH, just dont consume carbs within an hour before or after injections. I inject in the morning as soon as i wake up, and sip on some protein for the next hour.

----------


## human project

> lol ur running gh and you don't know the answer to this question?


I've taken thousands of ius of hgh and I am always switching my opinion about eating around the time of pinning my hgh... The way i look at it I already fast two hours before and half hour after my 3 ghrp and cjc shot. With that protocol I can't cut another 2.5hrs of eating out of my day.. With peptides I think it's important but I've never noticed a difference with hgh

----------


## swithuk

> omg. diet stays however you want it on GH, just dont consume carbs within an hour before or after injections. I inject in the morning as soon as i wake up, and sip on some protein for the next hour.


ok thanks . i thought that because g.h elevates the sugar levels in your blood that i should avoid sugar even more that normal ..............?

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## gixxerboy1

> ok thanks . i thought that because g.h elevates the sugar levels in your blood that i should avoid sugar even more that normal ..............?


gh cause insulin resistance. So i would avoid excess sugar and juices

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## swithuk

> gh cause insulin resistance. So i would avoid excess sugar and juices


thank you

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## alex18

I know I'm hitting this thread a few weeks late but I just wanted to throw something out there about a recent experience I had.... I don't normally go out and bash products on here...which is why I refrained from posting on a rip specific thread but this thread certainly opened my eyes I a don't feel stupid telling you all I injected crap and couldn't crap lol.....

I'd heard some bad things about riptropin but my source insisted that it was good and that our other friend (a uk bb pro) had been on it for 6 months with great results. I thought ok what the hell and ran with it. After I bought them I checked the serial numbers just out of curiosity and all was well... 1 month in at 4iu and it didn't feel right, water retention yes...carpal no...head aches no....no improved sleep and more importantly my digestive system was all out of whack! My diet had not changed, stress levels had not changed but my poops were all out of whack, I was constantly constipated, and then when I did go it was dry hard pebbles.... And a real strain... Two weeks in i bumped my fibre up and added citracel but still had real issues. At the end of week 4 I had been offered some sero 126iu kits from another friend and couldn't miss the chance to get my hands on these....needless to say...I switched out and on my third day at 4iu I pooped like a pro with the classic s shape nice and easy. I threw the rip in the trash.... I have no idea what was in it to make me do that but I'm convinced it was the rip....just too coincidental. My new guy tells me he has sold nothing but sero for nearly 10 years and tells me he won't touch anything else..... The difference between the two products was night and day....god knows what I was putting in my body with that rip! NEVER AGAIN will I waste my money.....

----------


## marcus300

> I know I'm hitting this thread a few weeks late but I just wanted to throw something out there about a recent experience I had.... I don't normally go out and bash products on here...which is why I refrained from posting on a rip specific thread but this thread certainly opened my eyes I a don't feel stupid telling you all I injected crap and couldn't crap lol.....
> 
> I'd heard some bad things about riptropin but my source insisted that it was good and that our other friend (a uk bb pro) had been on it for 6 months with great results. I thought ok what the hell and ran with it. After I bought them I checked the serial numbers just out of curiosity and all was well... 1 month in at 4iu and it didn't feel right, water retention yes...carpal no...head aches no....no improved sleep and more importantly my digestive system was all out of whack! My diet had not changed, stress levels had not changed but my poops were all out of whack, I was constantly constipated, and then when I did go it was dry hard pebbles.... And a real strain... Two weeks in i bumped my fibre up and added citracel but still had real issues. At the end of week 4 I had been offered some sero 126iu kits from another friend and couldn't miss the chance to get my hands on these....needless to say...I switched out and on my third day at 4iu I pooped like a pro with the classic s shape nice and easy. I threw the rip in the trash.... I have no idea what was in it to make me do that but I'm convinced it was the rip....just too coincidental. My new guy tells me he has sold nothing but sero for nearly 10 years and tells me he won't touch anything else..... The difference between the two products was night and day....god knows what I was putting in my body with that rip! NEVER AGAIN will I waste my money.....


Ive never heard of those symtoms before but it sounds you was one of the unlucky ones what got some of the dangerous chemicals they put inside them. Sounds like you had a lucky escape. Many still wont listen and say my source is the best and mine are great lol, its so funny to see them pop up with their kigs and rips lol...

Thanks for posting

----------


## alex18

I could be wrong...but it was all too coincidental for my liking.... Who knows what they put in the stuff... And I also forgot to mention I did do that bs boil it and see if it goes cloudy.... It passed that test lol....

----------


## Sheven

gensci jintropin for russia, hong kong and ukraine market is tip top. pharma grade, checked by 4 goverment medicine agencies, you cannot bribe 4 gov. medicine agencies that's for sure. go for that if you need to be 100% sure and don't want to spend a fortune. who thinks it can get legit european or us grade for less than 4-5$ a iu (stolen by the way, either frauded from the health care system) is totally insane. europe is filled with fake genotropin,norditropin and omnitrope sandoz with romanian language written on them. all are fake and hurt the hell when you inject it. pure scam but hey is genotropin right? must be goood.

----------


## marcus300

> gensci jintropin for russia, hong kong and ukraine market is tip top. pharma grade, checked by 4 goverment medicine agencies, you cannot bribe 4 gov. medicine agencies that's for sure. go for that if you need to be 100% sure and don't want to spend a fortune. who thinks it can get legit european or us grade for less than 4-5$ a iu (stolen by the way, either frauded from the health care system) is totally insane. europe is filled with fake genotropin,norditropin and omnitrope sandoz with romanian language written on them. all are fake and hurt the hell when you inject it. pure scam but hey is genotropin right? must be goood.


Ive had great feedback form guy's using the Russian Jins but yet myself to purchase any, not heard one bad thing about them and all report great gains just like the good old jins from 10 yrs ago  :Smilie:

----------


## Far from massive

> no not 100% . i dont know to what extent im supposed to drop the intake of sugar . 
> during the week i juice alot of vegetables with fruit and i know this has alot of sugar in but its natural ......?
> 
> *i lay off alcohol until the weekend . but are you supposed to cut it out completely if your on g.h ?*
> 
> what exactly is its effect if your on g.h ?


Is this a serious question? Of course you should eliminate alcohol intake to maximize the benefits if you are using growth. I guess if you are a multimillionare you could justify running growth while lacking the discipline to totally stop all forms of recreational drugs while using HGH its just hard for poor broke AAS guys like me to wrap my brain around ;-)

----------


## Angel of death

alex check my thread out about pain in the knees while on hgh. I was on generics too and they definitely screwed something up. I didn't mention it in the thread but I've been having all kinds of digestive problems too. I've had acid reflux my whole life and lately I have a severe increase in heartburn

----------


## alex18

> alex check my thread out about pain in the knees while on hgh. I was on generics too and they definitely screwed something up. I didn't mention it in the thread but I've been having all kinds of digestive problems too. I've had acid reflux my whole life and lately I have a severe increase in heartburn


You know now you mention it I NEVER get heart burn but on several occasions I needed to raid my wife's supply of tum's while on the rip!

----------


## Xtralarg

Anyone taking anything they have any doubts and/or concerns about should stop immediately. The Chinese manufacturers of this so called 'gh' do not care what damage it could possibly do, they use chemicals that mimic sides and this could cause YOU serious harm. Wake up and realise that there is a very high possibility that none of the hgh coming out of china and sold to BBrs is real. They just don't export it like they used to 10 years ago and people need to realise this. All this BS about your source having real rips and good hyge etc etc is total and utter crap. 

If you want to waste your money and risk your health then that's your choice, you've been warned! 

Damn why don't people listen!?!

----------


## alex18

> Anyone taking anything they have any doubts and/or concerns about should stop immediately. The Chinese manufacturers of this so called 'gh' do not care what damage it could possibly do, they use chemicals that mimic sides and this could cause YOU serious harm. Wake up and realise that there is a very high possibility that none of the hgh coming out of china and sold to BBrs is real. They just don't export it like they used to 10 years ago and people need to realise this. All this BS about your source having real rips and good hyge etc etc is total and utter crap. 
> 
> If you want to waste your money and risk your health then that's your choice, you've been warned! 
> 
> Damn why don't people listen!?!


Hey hey don't tarnish us all with the same brush ;-) some of us take heed and open the trash can.... ;-)

But seriously tho... People seriously need to read this thread and ask themselves the question about whether they are happy to gamble their health and cash playing chinky hgh roulette... I'd rather take my money to Vegas!

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## Sheven

What do you guys think if we gather ourselfs up and chip in each 20$ (paypal or credit card payment) and do independent hgh (somatropin) lab testing according to the EP (European Pharmacopoeia) ? 40 guys donating is enough to have one analysis made, and we'll do it in an independent lab in Germany or Swizerland where everybody can check the genuity of the testing. I'm ready to organize the payment processing and everything if at least 100 guys show disponibility, so that we can test each month or two at least 2 products.

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## calstate23

Hey guys, with all this talk about the chinese generics no one will want to buy this from their guy anymore...and then guess what's gonna happen? People sell what people want....I have this feeling there is going to be a lot more realistic pharm grade gh fakes coming out! Which isn't a good thing......Oh crap...

Getting legit pharm grade gh on the market is 99.99999% always real...But now, people don't want generics so they will start making more and more fake pharm grade...Watch and see FOLKS!

I say we close up all the generic tabs and let it be! All these damn DEALERS ARE DROOLING AT THE TEETH READING THIS STUFF!!!!

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## Xtralarg

> Hey guys, with all this talk about the chinese generics no one will want to buy this from their guy anymore...and then guess what's gonna happen? People sell what people want....I have this feeling there is going to be a lot more realistic pharm grade gh fakes coming out! Which isn't a good thing......Oh crap...
> 
> Getting legit pharm grade gh on the market is 99.99999% always real...But now, people don't want generics so they will start making more and more fake pharm grade...Watch and see FOLKS!
> 
> I say we close up all the generic tabs and let it be! All these damn DEALERS ARE DROOLING AT THE TEETH READING THIS STUFF!!!!


There is already lots of fake pharm grade gh on the market, don't forget that the guys who produce this fake stuff do it for a living, they are usually one step ahead! Personally I think the hgh market is f***ed and at the moment don't see it improving. Don't get me wrong there is real gh available if you know where to look but unfortunately finding it is like finding the proverbial needle in a haystack.

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## swithuk

> What do you guys think if we gather ourselfs up and chip in each 20$ (paypal or credit card payment) and do independent hgh (somatropin) lab testing according to the EP (European Pharmacopoeia) ? 40 guys donating is enough to have one analysis made, and we'll do it in an independent lab in Germany or Swizerland where everybody can check the genuity of the testing. I'm ready to organize the payment processing and everything if at least 100 guys show disponibility, so that we can test each month or two at least 2 products.


*i think this is a great idea !*

this is why these firms can exploit us . if we organize as shaven suggest the *LEAST* we can do is verify the g.h . 

the reason these companys can exploit us is because we act as individuals , independently . however the irony is that we are 90% there by simply being members on this forum 

all thats required now is that we *ACT* as one ..............

----------


## human project

> As we are all aware the global market for human growth hormone is worth millions if not billions of dollars and because of this is attracts the attention of the more unscrupulous amongst our community.
> 
> In the past people have been sold HCG believing it to be HGH, let's face it, to the beginner or novice it looks the same or very similar, you reconstitute it and can inject it just like you do with HGH. One big difference is the price, HCG is much cheaper to produce than HGH and therefore to the guy who wants to make a quick buck it becomes very appealing. Luckily for us it's easy to test for HCG using a pregnancy test, put some of the water on the test and if it shows a positive result then voila! You have HCG.
> 
> So what are the fakers trying to pass off as HGH these days? Well they are certainly selling us freeze dried AI's, these compounds will strip the body of it estrogen and that will make you loose some water and become 'leaner'. This can often fool the user into thinking they have lost BF and increased lean muscle, and as most people run AAS with their HGH they won't have a clue that what they are taking is a million miles from what they thought they have spent their hard earned cash on because their estrogen levels would of been raised by the AAS anyway. The problems arise here when you come off the AI and get a massive estrogen rebound, and then you will know for sure you have been deceived.
> 
> Ok so how can we tell that we have real HGH without sending to the lab to be tested and also not testing it on yourself?
> 
> The answer to this question is quite simple and anyone can do it. When you reconstitute your HGH (or what you think is HGH) you need to watch how it dissolves when it comes into contact with the water. Does it disappear instantly? If so then I doubt very much that you have HGH, what you want to be seeing are a few white flakes at the bottom of the vial which remain, you then need to gently swirl the bottle around until the disappear, this could take 30 seconds or more and is a very good indicator that what you have is real HGH, or what we commonly believe to be HGH...Update. It seems that the Chinese are able to create a substance that dissolves like HGH so beware that the remaining flakes are not always a sigh that your HGH is g2g.
> ...


Subscribed

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## Bigherm21

Yeah I saw an article on another board a few months ago about these guys that produce some type of powder and got in trouble for it. Said they were making them out of dead babies. Ill see if I can find it.

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## Bigherm21

http://www.glennbeck.com/2012/05/08/...an-baby-flesh/ I mean what else could it be?

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## DanB

> What do you guys think if we gather ourselfs up and chip in each 20$ (paypal or credit card payment) and do independent hgh (somatropin) lab testing according to the EP (European Pharmacopoeia) ? 40 guys donating is enough to have one analysis made, and we'll do it in an independent lab in Germany or Swizerland where everybody can check the genuity of the testing. I'm ready to organize the payment processing and everything if at least 100 guys show disponibility, so that we can test each month or two at least 2 products.


im in

how will we come about deciding the order of products tested? and can we tie people into a number of tests so that once people see the results they want then they will still be committed to donating, otherwise it will fall apart after 1 or 2 tests

great idea that i have been thinking about for a long time but didnt look into sourcing a lab to test, im sure you have some in mind already

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## swithuk

> im in
> 
> how will we come about deciding the order of products tested? and can we tie people into a number of tests so that once people see the results they want then they will still be committed to donating, otherwise it will fall apart after 1 or 2 tests
> 
> great idea that i have been thinking about for a long time but didnt look into sourcing a lab to test, im sure you have some in mind already


yeah me too . i agree

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## EasyDoesIt

> im in
> 
> how will we come about deciding the order of products tested? and can we tie people into a number of tests so that once people see the results they want then they will still be committed to donating, otherwise it will fall apart after 1 or 2 tests
> 
> great idea that i have been thinking about for a long time but didnt look into sourcing a lab to test, im sure you have some in mind already


I don't feel that i want to try to prove that the fakes are fake to anyone. Most of the people i know in the gym don't even read or educate themselves about the products. They barely understand trying to tell them the junk is being made of peptides. There friend selling tells them it's 200.00 or 250.00 and that's all they care about. Yes i am sure the guys selling do read the forums. I don't feel it's a bad idea, just think it's an up hill battle. There is always another salesman in line, another manufacturer and another buyer. If your doing it to check the validity for yourself, it would probably help out on a personal level, but i'm not sure we are reaching that many people when you look at the big picture. I do feel that many of us have made a statement and it hopefully will press some companies to sell legits. But the selective scamming as it has been stated here is probably the realty of impact. Complain enough on the net and you can push a company to react, but only to the complainer. If we look back at the posts, one person received a partial refund and that took a lot of pushing. I'll bet theres a lot of people that bought the same junk and received no refund. These companies factor "X" amount of losses into there costs. iT'S JUST A VERY DIFFICULT PROCESS, UNFORTUNATELY FOR US!! On a personal level i do not compete, so if i can not obtain quality, then i head to anti-aging doc. If i can not afford Doc i just won't do it. I know many of the people here live in areas that do not have anti-aging clinics and thats not an option. I think this is a great site and i have gained a lot of knowledge from many of the guys here and this site has probably made the biggest impact on this subject. That is due to dedicated and knowledgeable staff and Veterans in the field. I may be wrong on the other forums, it's just my opinion as i have signed on with some other sites and it seemed like most of them were geared towards selling products. 
QUESTION: Do you guys feel that the pharm grade sold from the major Companies selling to medical field in the U.S. are making fakes (EXCLUDING CHINA)? Or just that CROOKS are re-producing there labels etc. and making them?

----------


## Xtralarg

> I don't feel that i want to try to prove that the fakes are fake to anyone. Most of the people i know in the gym don't even read or educate themselves about the products. They barely understand trying to tell them the junk is being made of peptides. There friend selling tells them it's 200.00 or 250.00 and that's all they care about. Yes i am sure the guys selling do read the forums. I don't feel it's a bad idea, just think it's an up hill battle. There is always another salesman in line, another manufacturer and another buyer. If your doing it to check the validity for yourself, it would probably help out on a personal level, but i'm not sure we are reaching that many people when you look at the big picture. I do feel that many of us have made a statement and it hopefully will press some companies to sell legits. But the selective scamming as it has been stated here is probably the realty of impact. Complain enough on the net and you can push a company to react, but only to the complainer. If we look back at the posts, one person received a partial refund and that took a lot of pushing. I'll bet theres a lot of people that bought the same junk and received no refund. These companies factor "X" amount of losses into there costs. iT'S JUST A VERY DIFFICULT PROCESS, UNFORTUNATELY FOR US!! On a personal level i do not compete, so if i can not obtain quality, then i head to anti-aging doc. If i can not afford Doc i just won't do it. I know many of the people here live in areas that do not have anti-aging clinics and thats not an option. I think this is a great site and i have gained a lot of knowledge from many of the guys here and this site has probably made the biggest impact on this subject. That is due to dedicated and knowledgeable staff and Veterans in the field. I may be wrong on the other forums, it's just my opinion as i have signed on with some other sites and it seemed like most of them were geared towards selling products. 
> QUESTION: Do you guys feel that the pharm grade sold from the major Companies selling to medical field in the U.S. are making fakes (EXCLUDING CHINA)? Or just that CROOKS are re-producing there labels etc. and making them?


Major companies producing hgh for the U.S. market will not be producing fakes. The guys making the fakes will copy them and sell the the black market, trying to pass them off as the genuine article. There was even a fake apple shop in china selling fake apple products and nobody knew for a long time! If they can produce hi tec stuff I'm sure a hgh pen isn't hard to reproduce.

----------


## swithuk

> I don't feel that i want to try to prove that the fakes are fake to anyone. Most of the people i know in the gym don't even read or educate themselves about the products. They barely understand trying to tell them the junk is being made of peptides. There friend selling tells them it's 200.00 or 250.00 and that's all they care about. Yes i am sure the guys selling do read the forums. I don't feel it's a bad idea, just think it's an up hill battle. There is always another salesman in line, another manufacturer and another buyer. If your doing it to check the validity for yourself, it would probably help out on a personal level, but i'm not sure we are reaching that many people when you look at the big picture. I do feel that many of us have made a statement and it hopefully will press some companies to sell legits. But the selective scamming as it has been stated here is probably the realty of impact. Complain enough on the net and you can push a company to react, but only to the complainer. If we look back at the posts, one person received a partial refund and that took a lot of pushing. I'll bet theres a lot of people that bought the same junk and received no refund. These companies factor "X" amount of losses into there costs. iT'S JUST A VERY DIFFICULT PROCESS, UNFORTUNATELY FOR US!! On a personal level i do not compete, so if i can not obtain quality, then i head to anti-aging doc. If i can not afford Doc i just won't do it. I know many of the people here live in areas that do not have anti-aging clinics and thats not an option. I think this is a great site and i have gained a lot of knowledge from many of the guys here and this site has probably made the biggest impact on this subject. That is due to dedicated and knowledgeable staff and Veterans in the field. I may be wrong on the other forums, it's just my opinion as i have signed on with some other sites and it seemed like most of them were geared towards selling products. 
> QUESTION: Do you guys feel that the pharm grade sold from the major Companies selling to medical field in the U.S. are making fakes (EXCLUDING CHINA)? Or just that CROOKS are re-producing there labels etc. and making them?


i agree , however i think its worthwhile / productive for a few people to get together to test one or two and see what happens as its all in our interests

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Major companies producing hgh for the U.S. market will not be producing fakes. The guys making the fakes will copy them and sell the the black market, trying to pass them off as the genuine article. There was even a fake apple shop in china selling fake apple products and nobody knew for a long time! If they can produce hi tec stuff I'm sure a hgh pen isn't hard to reproduce.


I didn't think so, but i thought maybe some of the guys wanting to do checks might have been looking at those type of companies. Regarding the Chinese, i agree-they spend there money in reverse engineering which is much cheaper than research and development. They are copycats not creators. They have legal selective crime there.
Thanks

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## EasyDoesIt

> i agree , however i think its worthwhile / productive for a few people to get together to test one or two and see what happens as its all in our interests


Yes i agree if you have some sources that are in question. It's probably dependent on area where you live and sources available. Mine is limited to lots of fakes and one quality that i know of.

----------


## calstate23

> Major companies producing hgh for the U.S. market will not be producing fakes. The guys making the fakes will copy them and sell the the black market, trying to pass them off as the genuine article. There was even a fake apple shop in china selling fake apple products and nobody knew for a long time! If they can produce hi tec stuff I'm sure a hgh pen isn't hard to reproduce.


Yes this ^^^....U.S. manufacturers can't make fakes man...They would be shut down faster then my granny's house in foreclosure....

That is why pharm grade products are the best....It's a little something called REGULATION. And here is the US regulation is huge whether it be producing meats and vegetables or medicine....There are strict guidelines they must follow when producing a product....

But ANYONE can copy a logo man, ANYONE can even make plastic molds of exact replicas if they wanted to...If people know how to do something they can....Drug dealers will make fake shit and sell as if it is the real deal

----------


## marcus300

I don't need any of the fakes I've used because it was obvious to me something was wrong. I've ran pharm grade and generics for over 15yrs so I know and don't need them testing . I cab easily go off results, sides and how I feel.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Yes this ^^^....U.S. manufacturers can't make fakes man...They would be shut down faster then my granny's house in foreclosure....
> 
> That is why pharm grade products are the best....It's a little something called REGULATION. And here is the US regulation is huge whether it be producing meats and vegetables or medicine....There are strict guidelines they must follow when producing a product....
> 
> But ANYONE can copy a logo man, ANYONE can even make plastic molds of exact replicas if they wanted to...If people know how to do something they can....Drug dealers will make fake shit and sell as if it is the real deal


Yes i'm with you on that!!! Re-producing Logo's-authentication codes etc... I was thinking maybe the guys wanting to pull together and have products tested thought or knew something i didn't. Maybe that U.S. Companies or possibly companies in other countries that SELL to U.S. were doing something. I know some of the people on this forum are from Germany etc. and there is a company there that sells to pharmaceutical industry here in U.S. Where i'm at i wouldn't know what to test, IMO once you use Pharm-Grade, fake HGH IS SO FAR FROM REAL IN RESULTS, that if your taking counterfeit, you would know the difference. I have had my share of junk and great counterfeit labels, so risking Chinese is not even an option. I am 100% convinced generics and chinese that i could obtain is fake. But some on this board have had real Chinese from Russia and that is not available to me, so i just don't have a reason to test anything. I like to contribute what i can here on this forum, but i can only help spread the word about what has been discussed here on this great thread.

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## EasyDoesIt

> I don't need any of the fakes I've used because it was obvious to me something was wrong. I've ran pharm grade and generics for over 15yrs so I know and don't need them testing . I cab easily go off results, sides and how I feel.


Yes i agree Marcus! I have not been using pharm as long as you, nor am i as knowledgeable, but when i started Pharm, the difference was night and day. All of these weird sides say something is wrong!!! Bottom line is: Better go back and have a talk with your source if it's Junk, wether that source is a Rep or a Manufacturer.

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## swithuk

> Yes i'm with you on that!!! Re-producing Logo's-authentication codes etc... I was thinking maybe the guys wanting to pull together and have products tested thought or knew something i didn't. Maybe that U.S. Companies or possibly companies in other countries that SELL to U.S. were doing something. I know some of the people on this forum are from Germany etc. and there is a company there that sells to pharmaceutical industry here in U.S. Where i'm at i wouldn't know what to test, IMO once you use Pharm-Grade, fake HGH IS SO FAR FROM REAL IN RESULTS, that if your taking counterfeit, you would know the difference. I have had my share of junk and great counterfeit labels, so risking Chinese is not even an option. I am 100% convinced generics and chinese that i could obtain is fake. But some on this board have had real Chinese from Russia and that is not available to me, so i just don't have a reason to test anything. I like to contribute what i can here on this forum, but i can only help spread the word about what has been discussed here on this great thread.


yeah this is a great thread .......ive learnt a great deal from it ...............

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## Indymuscleguy

You can test to see if HGH is HCG by reconstituting your 'HGH' vial, purchase a pregnancy test, put 1iu over the 'strip' of the pregnancy tests device. Wait to see if it comes back - or +. If it's + then it's HCG. If it's negative...it's not HCG, but is it 'HGH'...anyones guess.

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## calstate23

> You can test to see if HGH is HCG by reconstituting your 'HGH' vial, purchase a pregnancy test, put 1iu over the 'strip' of the pregnancy tests device. Wait to see if it comes back - or +. If it's + then it's HCG. If it's negative...it's not HCG, but is it 'HGH'...anyones guess.


Like Marcus said...I could care less about trying to test my product....You can tell just by pinning it

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## Indymuscleguy

> Like Marcus said...I could care less about trying to test my product....You can tell just by pinning it


Correct me if I am wrong but it takes a good 90 days or more to experience sides or notice a size/bf% decrease. (Unless you are using more than 4iu/day) IMO, If I were concerned with a source, I'd buy the minimum, test it with a pregnancy test, then at least you've ruled out HCG . A pregnancy test is what, $15 vs. buying 3-6 months of what could be HCG. Just saying.

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## calstate23

> Correct me if I am wrong but it takes a good 90 days or more to experience sides or notice a size/bf% decrease. (Unless you are using more than 4iu/day) IMO, If I were concerned with a source, I'd buy the minimum, test it with a pregnancy test, then at least you've ruled out HCG. A pregnancy test is what, $15 vs. buying 3-6 months of what could be HCG. Just saying.


For it to be full force and running and MAJOR physique changes....But much faster you can tell what you get yourself into....within a week see veins haven't seen before and eat like shit and feel fuller and leaner next day...

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## marcus300

It was 10yrs ago they used hcg , that's old school to what they use now. Complete waste of time if you ask me it went out with the ark

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## Xtralarg

> Correct me if I am wrong but it takes a good 90 days or more to experience sides or notice a size/bf% decrease. (Unless you are using more than 4iu/day) IMO, If I were concerned with a source, I'd buy the minimum, test it with a pregnancy test, then at least you've ruled out HCG. A pregnancy test is what, $15 vs. buying 3-6 months of what could be HCG. Just saying.


Save your $15 you won't catch them out that easily these days.

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## alex18

> Correct me if I am wrong but it takes a good 90 days or more to experience sides or notice a size/bf% decrease. (Unless you are using more than 4iu/day) IMO, If I were concerned with a source, I'd buy the minimum, test it with a pregnancy test, then at least you've ruled out HCG. A pregnancy test is what, $15 vs. buying 3-6 months of what could be HCG. Just saying.


I think most people with hgh experience are now fully aware of what's going on and chose their products carefully. I think it's the newbies that are being fooled into buying
crap and using it long term....If these newbies bought proper pharm grade stuff they would notice sides immediately at 2iu maybe even 1iu...

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## Indymuscleguy

> I think most people with hgh experience are now fully aware of what's going on and chose their products carefully. I think it's the newbies that are being fooled into buying
> crap and using it long term....If these newbies bought proper pharm grade stuff they would notice sides immediately at 2iu maybe even 1iu...


Gee it just seems from the advice and information I was given here regarding GH and results approximately 5 or 6 years ago, were very consistent...if you ran 4iu's or more per day 5 on/2 off one would not see results nor experience side effects until at least 3 months. I was considering my first cycle of GH at 2iu/day and was told to buy enough to last for a 6 month cycle as I wouldn't see results for a good 5-6 months. I concluded the cost/benefit wasn't for me based on that information. Has GH concentrations or it's chemical properties change from 5 or 6 years ago? 

I'm not arguing with you guys, I'm just relaying the information on testing and dosing that I was given here a few years ago. I guess I was mis-informed.

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## Sgt. Hartman

^^^Thats all true as far as results go but guys who have a lot of experience running GH can tell from sides and how it feels within a very short time.

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## MuscleInk

> It was 10yrs ago they used hcg, that's old school to what they use now. Complete waste of time if you ask me it went out with the ark


This was my understanding as well. The pregnancy test method would no longer be a reliable indicator of legitimacy. The only thing it would be useful for is determining if your HGH was actually HCG . It could still be counterfeit and not test positive on a pregnancy test.

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## lovbyts

> Gee it just seems from the advice and information I was given here regarding GH and results approximately 5 or 6 years ago, were very consistent...if you ran 4iu's or more per day 5 on/2 off one would not see results nor experience side effects until at least 3 months. I was considering my first cycle of GH at 2iu/day and was told to buy enough to last for a 6 month cycle as I wouldn't see results for a good 5-6 months. I concluded the cost/benefit wasn't for me based on that information. Has GH concentrations or it's chemical properties change from 5 or 6 years ago? 
> 
> I'm not arguing with you guys, I'm just relaying the information on testing and dosing that I was given here a few years ago. I guess I was mis-informed.


What you say is still valid to see good solid gains or results depending on your goals.

What else you are seeing/reading is it's 99% harder to find real HGH compared to 5 or 6 years ago.

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## calstate23

> Gee it just seems from the advice and information I was given here regarding GH and results approximately 5 or 6 years ago, were very consistent...if you ran 4iu's or more per day 5 on/2 off one would not see results nor experience side effects until at least 3 months. I was considering my first cycle of GH at 2iu/day and was told to buy enough to last for a 6 month cycle as I wouldn't see results for a good 5-6 months. I concluded the cost/benefit wasn't for me based on that information. Has GH concentrations or it's chemical properties change from 5 or 6 years ago? 
> 
> I'm not arguing with you guys, I'm just relaying the information on testing and dosing that I was given here a few years ago. I guess I was mis-informed.


Depends upon your physique a lot...how lean you are and how much gh you have run before....I can notice a diff within weeks like I said...Spider veins start poking, hungry eat like shit and just get leaner, skin gets thinner....

In fact not much sides at all, more sides to me = generics.....No sides, just results

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## Angel of death

Agreed, currently on genotropin and experiencing almost no negative side effects, but I did feel the carpal tunnel when I used around 9ius one day to be sure. when I was using rips I immediately got the most bloated I've ever been and found it hard to breathe...that shit just isn't hgh no matter what anyone wants to tell me.

And these were rips that I verified the code on THEIR website. A code than you can't even enter twice because once its been verified it says that when you try to enter it again. So no one can tell me they have rips any more real then that. Shit is straight garbage.

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## Sheven

Ok guys let me tell you one thing, Riptropin is the backdoor brand of Hygene Zhongshan (the original manufacturer of **********). There was one batch analyzed by RonnyT and revealed GH inside but as i know the seller of this project (which is also the "export" and "sales" manager in Hygene Zhongshan) they most likely started scamming people after people started to like it...

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## marcus300

> Agreed, currently on genotropin and experiencing almost no negative side effects, but I did feel the carpal tunnel when I used around 9ius one day to be sure. when I was using rips I immediately got the most bloated I've ever been and found it hard to breathe...that shit just isn't hgh no matter what anyone wants to tell me.
> 
> And these were rips that I verified the code on THEIR website. A code than you can't even enter twice because once its been verified it says that when you try to enter it again. So no one can tell me they have rips any more real then that. Shit is straight garbage.


Sounds like you had a lucky escape. I've lost count of how many members who have pmed me with regarding rips and kigs giving them strange sides. Many don't realize until they try pharm grade and many also take the results from steriods as gains from their generics. At least you know and won't go don't that route again.

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## Sheven

> Sounds like you had a lucky escape. I've lost count of how many members who have pmed me with regarding rips and kigs giving them strange sides. Many don't realize until they try pharm grade and many also take the results from steriods as gains from their generics. At least you know and won't go don't that route again.


Pharm grade = pharmaceutical grade product
Generic = pharmaceutical grade product, not patented (anymore).

so how can you say pharm grade is different from generic? omnitrope sandoz is generic, tevtropin TEVA is generic. lets at least have some sense of the discussion if we keep repeating it over and over again.

ansomone and ********** zhongshan are pharm grade too, and generic. they are both sold overseas and as i know ********** is registered in mexico. what about genheal that is registered in most CIS countries? its being sold by public tender in CIS countries. are this all shit products? are this all bribed FDA's?

radical people are the people far from the truth. truth is making somatropin pharma standard is not that complicated neither restricted to few big manufacturer like pfizer and lilly. it can be done with a average investment of 2mil$. afterwards, the cost for maintaining monthly the factory can come up to 20k$ just for the workers and utilities (small operation). there are medium chances for bad batches (amino exchange during the reaction that is causing bad reaction at injection spot, most common problem in production) or air trapped in the reactor causing the whole reaction to be compromised. except this two instances, the production goes easily most of the time. if you calculate the whole investment and the monthly bills and also the potential risks of losing a batch (which do occure) the cost of production cannot be the one currently demanded by the market. the market demands cheap cheap cheap. still 8 out of 10 people at least demand cheap gh. there are plenty of forums that have open sales and people are bumping some shit brands. once the market will demand quality, quality will arise. saying all is shit and lets all buy genotropin is pure stupid.

one important thing to be mentioned, mg is the weight of the hormone, IU is the bioactivity. 1iu = 1iu in any place of the world. be it pakistani hgh, american or chinese. when it comes to mg, yes is true 1mg is more potent (has more IU) than the chinese one and this comes from one of the initial reactions. but in the end the chinese can make this up with the mg ratio. us & eu agreed in their pharmacopoeias to say 1mg = ±3.3iu. chinese do calculate at 2.5iu currently. there are ways to check the bioavailability etc, but all this in some other posts.

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## gixxerboy1

Ok its not generics then. You are correct on the technical term. So ugl hgh.

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## Sheven

> Ok its not generics then. You are correct on the technical term. So ugl hgh.


any ugl operation is prone to variation. doesn't mean it can't work at times.

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## marcus300

> Pharm grade = pharmaceutical grade product
> Generic = pharmaceutical grade product, not patented (anymore).
> 
> so how can you say pharm grade is different from generic? omnitrope sandoz is generic, tevtropin TEVA is generic. lets at least have some sense of the discussion if we keep repeating it over and over again.
> 
> ansomone and ********** zhongshan are pharm grade too, and generic. they are both sold overseas and as i know ********** is registered in mexico. what about genheal that is registered in most CIS countries? its being sold by public tender in CIS countries. are this all shit products? are this all bribed FDA's?
> 
> radical people are the people far from the truth. truth is making somatropin pharma standard is not that complicated neither restricted to few big manufacturer like pfizer and lilly. it can be done with a average investment of 2mil$. afterwards, the cost for maintaining monthly the factory can come up to 20k$ just for the workers and utilities (small operation). there are medium chances for bad batches (amino exchange during the reaction that is causing bad reaction at injection spot, most common problem in production) or air trapped in the reactor causing the whole reaction to be compromised. except this two instances, the production goes easily most of the time. if you calculate the whole investment and the monthly bills and also the potential risks of losing a batch (which do occure) the cost of production cannot be the one currently demanded by the market. the market demands cheap cheap cheap. still 8 out of 10 people at least demand cheap gh. there are plenty of forums that have open sales and people are bumping some shit brands. once the market will demand quality, quality will arise. saying all is shit and lets all buy genotropin is pure stupid.
> 
> one important thing to be mentioned, mg is the weight of the hormone, IU is the bioactivity. 1iu = 1iu in any place of the world. be it pakistani hgh, american or chinese. when it comes to mg, yes is true 1mg is more potent (has more IU) than the chinese one and this comes from one of the initial reactions. but in the end the chinese can make this up with the mg ratio. us & eu agreed in their pharmacopoeias to say 1mg = ±3.3iu. chinese do calculate at 2.5iu currently. there are ways to check the bioavailability etc, but all this in some other posts.


You know exactly what I mean and so does everyone else here. The shite coming out of China . You know what I mean because your sat in one of those labs in China so stop trying to be the one and only expert when we all know what your doing here. Wise up

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## alex18

> You know exactly what I mean and so does everyone else here. The shite coming out of China . You know what I mean because your sat in one of those labs in China so stop trying to be the one and only expert when we all know what your doing here. Wise up


agreed..... a little too much knowledge + 'selling/marketing' going on here....

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## Sheven

> You know exactly what I mean and so does everyone else here. The shite coming out of China . You know what I mean because your sat in one of those labs in China so stop trying to be the one and only expert when we all know what your doing here. Wise up


Wise up? Marcus300 i recall badly or was you that was soliciting me to source you HGH few months ago? *Oh, and i didn't send you any email right?*  So what's that i'm doing here? I think you are the one who is doing something and i haven't called you out because i know what respect means, not the same for you it seems, i have been solicited many times (not just by you) to sell or offer advice where to buy gear and hgh, i never answered neither i helped anyone.

So before calling out people without any reason, better look in the mirror, fool.

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## Sheven

> agreed..... a little too much knowledge + 'selling/marketing' going on here....


Who's selling anything? I'd say too many fools around and disrespectful guys, in fact not just that but huge hypocrites. Marcus is just jealous i didn't hook him up with a connection so he brings this shit up now, be a man don't a *****. If anyone reads my posts in this "Chinese HGH concerns" can easily see i'm totally impartial and i have criticism for most of the companies and brands (because i them know closely). I can write whatever i like because i'm feeling very free since i know i'm clean, couldn't say the same about some others but out of respect i'd better keep for myself.

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## marcus300

> Wise up? Marcus300 i recall badly or was you that was soliciting me to source you HGH few months ago? *Oh, and i didn't send you any email right?*  So what's that i'm doing here? I think you are the one who is doing something and i haven't called you out because i know what respect means, not the same for you it seems, i have been solicited many times (not just by you) to sell or offer advice where to buy gear and hgh, i never answered neither i helped anyone.
> 
> So before calling out people without any reason, better look in the mirror, fool.


I contacted you because I had pm's stating you was selling hgh, so I got in contact and opened you up so you would talk and tell me what you was doing, and guess what you did? and I still have the pm's so dont come with that one. I keep this board clean from scammers and trust me you have no idea what goes on. You have been put forward many times, thats why I opened you up. You was the fool who fell for it not me oh wise one! you told me all about you and what you do if you dont remember.

We know you are in China and even you stated dont trust anyone from China, 

fancy posting a picture of this body you have built from hgh? seeing that you are here for bodybuilding,steroids and hgh advice lets see it?

I can't see what your problem is, I posted and quoted Angel of death about his rips then you come in shouting and screaming.....The whole Chinese hgh is a con you know it, I know and more or less all the members do so get back in your lab. All becaue your in China doesnt make you an expert listen to all these guys who are screaming about the rips, kigs and coloured tops. Just look at some of your older posts where you go on and on about how bad certain generics then you suddenly change your mind and come back with they not all that bad, you change your mind more times than my ex wife....I also dont need anyone for a source for hgh I have my own and its not that Chinese crap either.

When I post a reply I quote the person who I am posting to, so in future look at who I am speaking to, imbecile


You want to carry this on take it to PM, keep this thread clean from bullshite like this

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## Angel of death

Marcus is one of if not the most legit dude around here. And I've been scammed and ****ed with hundreds of times. He's a legitimate good person, and he looks out for people getting scammed. it pisses me off that anyone would even try to stir up some shit with him.

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## EasyDoesIt

I think it is a good idea to keep the thread clean as Marcus stated, just for purposes to keep the quality of the forum itself at a high standard. I do not know anyone on a personal level, but i can decipher what makes sense and what i have experienced.

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## Edwin23q

Guys, I think it's common knowledge that everything coming out of china is crap. I wouldn't trust them one bit. I know cause I've been on so called "Authentic" Chinese hgh and now I'm on the Pharma US grade hgh, and boy do you see the difference once you try both.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

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## marcus300

Pease keep this thread clean from bullshite.

There are things what go on behind the scence what keep this board safe from scammers, members sourcing and certain brands being promoted for their own financial gain. On a persoanl note ive been involved in many of these cases and helped to keep this board safe for members to discuss without being sold fakes etc. I'm not saying anyone in this thread is selling fakes but at times thing are investigated to see if people have an agenda etc. 

Please no more talk on this thread about what goes on behind the scences because its private and if anyone wants to carry this on please PM me and dont use this thread

Thanks

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## Sheven

Well i guess we both overreacted and i won't be immature to say that you started it by falsely calling me a source. i'm into the community best interest and i think arguing with details and proof is useful, i am the one who called out cheaters and shady people most of the chinese manufacturers and their export teams and also stated i don't trust anyone in china when it comes to this kind of products, unless i analyze it myself. i advised against members buying from some well known doggy sources like ankebio and i'll continue to call them out.

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## marcus300

There is enough information and experience from many members in this thread for future buyers to make their own mind up regarding the whole Chinese hgh market especially the underground market. I also find it hard to trust anything coming out most of the Chinese manufacturers and I will continure to give my advice on what I know to be fact, weather members take this advice is up to them but this thread has been a great help and a source of information for many members.

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## EasyDoesIt

> There is enough information and experience from many members in this thread for future buyers to make their own mind up regarding the whole Chinese hgh market especially the underground market. I also find it hard to trust anything coming out most of the Chinese manufacturers and I will continure to give my advice on what I know to be fact, weather members take this advice is up to them but this thread has been a great help and a source of information for many members.


Yes there is more than enough repetitive information stating and re-stating the Chinese products QUALITY OR LACK OF. At some point seems like some people keep wanting to validate the Chinese products or look for a way to say they are good or maybe change later. To think that the Chinese mfgs are going to change there unscrupulous ways because of us is laughable. Yes an impact was made on ankibio regarding a few people here, but overall i dont think they are going stop doing what they do. Based on masses, 95% of the people using HGH never read these forums or do any research. If they feel that strong about having it, let them go get it. Were working off an internet forum here and it is experience and advice, I don't know the people here so if i contribute to the forum by sparing someone the mistake of dumping there cash into bad product and they still want to buy, it's there choice. I personally know many people using that junk and i have talked to them and it goes in one ear and out the other. I actually don't know anyone that reads up on products in general, including guys that are selling. I think in certain parts of the world, many people that workout and use gear are well read. Just my experience here in the U.S.

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## Sheven

> Yes there is more than enough repetitive information stating and re-stating the Chinese products QUALITY OR LACK OF. At some point seems like some people keep wanting to validate the Chinese products or look for a way to say they are good or maybe change later. T*o think that the Chinese mfgs are going to change there unscrupulous ways because of us is laughable.* Yes an impact was made on ankibio regarding a few people here, but overall i dont think they are going stop doing what they do. Based on masses, 95% of the people using HGH never read these forums or do any research. If they feel that strong about having it, let them go get it. Were working off an internet forum here and it is experience and advice, I don't know the people here so if i contribute to the forum by sparing someone the mistake of dumping there cash into bad product and they still want to buy, it's there choice. I personally know many people using that junk and i have talked to them and it goes in one ear and out the other. I actually don't know anyone that reads up on products in general, including guys that are selling. I think in certain parts of the world, many people that workout and use gear are well read. Just my experience here in the U.S.


truth is that most ugl manufacturers don't make the internet sales so the ones that are pushing the quality down is mostly the middleman and retailers. for the manufacturer is same if he makes 4iu or 8iu vial, in fact any manufacturer preffers making less vials and higher concentration rather than filling hundred thousands of vials with 2iu. the costs are much higher to do underdosed and they are mostly always payed according to what they really dose the stuff. it happens for the manufacturer to cheat the middleman but is rarely nowadays because they lose the market fast and who would they do that when the margins are very high ? do you think the colombians send to europe and us 5% cocaine? ofcourse not they sell the high purity one. analogy can be made.

at the end of the day, the real manufacturer prefers making good quality products because their margin is high anyway, and their market share loss is big if customers don't come back. when you're dealing with ankebio export department that is registered on every b2b website and their selling 1-2 kits to any bodybuilders, you can be 100% you're not dealing with the factory you're dealing with a bunch of people that manage sales, they have no stake in the companies profits or success so they rather cash in fast since life is volatile in emerging economies.

Later edit: why you think jintropin was good all those years before the US cracked them? they aren't a different type of chinese breed... they took the manufacturing seriously and didn't compromise on their brand, profits were huge anyway and those can be proven by their stock value and total public sales.

----------


## human project

> truth is that most ugl manufacturers don't make the internet sales so the ones that are pushing the quality down is mostly the middleman and retailers. for the manufacturer is same if he makes 4iu or 8iu vial, in fact any manufacturer preffers making less vials and higher concentration rather than filling hundred thousands of vials with 2iu. the costs are much higher to do underdosed and they are mostly always payed according to what they really dose the stuff. it happens for the manufacturer to cheat the middleman but is rarely nowadays because they lose the market fast and who would they do that when the margins are very high ? do you think the colombians send to europe and us 5% cocaine? ofcourse not they sell the high purity one. analogy can be made.
> 
> at the end of the day, the real manufacturer prefers making good quality products because their margin is high anyway, and their market share loss is big if customers don't come back. when you're dealing with ankebio export department that is registered on every b2b website and their selling 1-2 kits to any bodybuilders, you can be 100% you're not dealing with the factory you're dealing with a bunch of people that manage sales, they have no stake in the companies profits or success so they rather cash in fast since life is volatile in emerging economies.
> 
> Later edit: why you think jintropin was good all those years before the US cracked them? they aren't a different type of chinese breed... they took the manufacturing seriously and didn't compromise on their brand, profits were huge anyway and those can be proven by their stock value and total public sales.


Will manufacturers sell to the general public???

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## EasyDoesIt

> truth is that most ugl manufacturers don't make the internet sales so the ones that are pushing the quality down is mostly the middleman and retailers. for the manufacturer is same if he makes 4iu or 8iu vial, in fact any manufacturer preffers making less vials and higher concentration rather than filling hundred thousands of vials with 2iu. the costs are much higher to do underdosed and they are mostly always payed according to what they really dose the stuff. it happens for the manufacturer to cheat the middleman but is rarely nowadays because they lose the market fast and who would they do that when the margins are very high ? do you think the colombians send to europe and us 5% cocaine? ofcourse not they sell the high purity one. analogy can be made.
> 
> at the end of the day, the real manufacturer prefers making good quality products because their margin is high anyway, and their market share loss is big if customers don't come back. when you're dealing with ankebio export department that is registered on every b2b website and their selling 1-2 kits to any bodybuilders, you can be 100% you're not dealing with the factory you're dealing with a bunch of people that manage sales, they have no stake in the companies profits or success so they rather cash in fast since life is volatile in emerging economies.
> 
> Later edit: why you think jintropin was good all those years before the US cracked them? they aren't a different type of chinese breed... they took the manufacturing seriously and didn't compromise on their brand, profits were huge anyway and those can be proven by their stock value and total public sales.


But for example do you know for sure it was sales people selling the junk from Ankiebio? As i understand those sales were coming direct from Ankie. That's quite a problem and pretty loose control if it was sales personel, which is a internal control problem ankie would have. Also, there sales here in the U.S. which they have obviously been doing for some time are a different animal than there pharmaceutical sales as the buyers have no governing body to complain to and ankiebio knows that. If i'm wrong on that correct me, but from what i have read, that is what i see that happened.

----------


## likelifting

> I don't need any of the fakes I've used because it was obvious to me something was wrong.* I've ran pharm grade and generics for over 15yrs so I know and don't need them testing . I cab easily go off results, sides and how I feel*.


I'm envious. Seriously envious. That seems to be the only test these days. And for us noobs, its almost impossible for us to know what we have.

I had vascularity. I felt great. I boiled 5iu and it went cloudy like I read it should and let it cool and it remained cloudy like I read it should. 

The only reason I stopped pinning mine is becuase I was able to up my dose to 10ius in a about 3 weeks. That threw up a red flag to me. From my very limited experience, I shouldn't have been able to ramp up so quickly without sides. I had some wrist discomfort, but not bad. 

Not talking to you specifically in this post. But that bolded sentence caught my eye. That is some valuable experience you have. Good for you, sir.

----------


## marcus300

> Yes there is more than enough repetitive information stating and re-stating the Chinese products QUALITY OR LACK OF. At some point seems like some people keep wanting to validate the Chinese products or look for a way to say they are good or maybe change later. To think that the Chinese mfgs are going to change there unscrupulous ways because of us is laughable. Yes an impact was made on ankibio regarding a few people here, but overall i dont think they are going stop doing what they do. Based on masses, 95% of the people using HGH never read these forums or do any research. If they feel that strong about having it, let them go get it. Were working off an internet forum here and it is experience and advice, I don't know the people here so if i contribute to the forum by sparing someone the mistake of dumping there cash into bad product and they still want to buy, it's there choice. I personally know many people using that junk and i have talked to them and it goes in one ear and out the other. I actually don't know anyone that reads up on products in general, including guys that are selling. I think in certain parts of the world, many people that workout and use gear are well read. Just my experience here in the U.S.




I agree, there is enough information and experience from all over the world on this board regarding the quality of generics and even some pharm grade manufacturers. Once suspicion is there it can breed but results is where it counts and many who have used quality pharm grade hgh and generics for many years understands and knows how your body reacts and its as clear as black and white with these guys that the Chinese are not trustworthy and your playing roulette when you buy from them. Even with Ankibio you go direct and they started to sell underdosed,fakes and came out with all sorts rubbish with the reasons why, they even sent me and Ronnie some free hgh to keep us quiet on the boards, stop the rumours of them selling fakes and also stop the company getting emails asking about quality all because of this board and a guy who had a blood test from ProM what showed zero improvement in his numbers. Just goes to show you if they can what are the generic compaines doing when the only prize for these guys is money.



Ive been burnt from some serious sources and I also legit companies and they is only a certain amount of times you keep going back to get burnt. They are that far infront with knwoledge and scamming the underground market we have no idea what they are putting in their hgh to produce all these water retaining results, or estrogen rebound once you stop or other strange side effects what many think are great results. Facts are if you have used pharm grade for a good length of time at a good solid dose you know what real hgh does and how you react and for those guys they never go back to the Chinese market because they know.We can debate till the cows come home and most will carry on buying the generics and thats fine but no one will change my mind especially anyone sat in China or anyone else to that matter because Ive used enough hgh to know something is seriously wrong with many of Chinese hgh manufacturers especially the generic market.

----------


## Sheven

> I agree, there is enough information and experience from all over the world on this board regarding the quality of generics and even some pharm grade manufacturers. Once suspicion is there it can breed but results is where it counts and many who have used quality pharm grade hgh and generics for many years understands and knows how your body reacts and its as clear as black and white with these guys that the Chinese are not trustworthy and your playing roulette when you buy from them. Even with Ankibio you go direct and they started to sell underdosed,fakes and came out with all sorts rubbish with the reasons why, they even sent me and Ronnie some free hgh to keep us quiet on the boards, stop the rumours of them selling fakes and also stop the company getting emails asking about quality all because of this board and a guy who had a blood test from ProM what showed zero improvement in his numbers. Just goes to show you if they can what are the generic compaines doing when the only prize for these guys is money.
> 
> 
> 
> Ive been burnt from some serious sources and I also legit companies and they is only a certain amount of times you keep going back to get burnt. They are that far infront with knwoledge and scamming the underground market we have no idea what they are putting in their hgh to produce all these water retaining results, or estrogen rebound once you stop or other strange side effects what many think are great results. Facts are if you have used pharm grade for a good length of time at a good solid dose you know what real hgh does and how you react and for those guys they never go back to the Chinese market because they know.We can debate till the cows come home and most will carry on buying the generics and thats fine but no one will change my mind especially anyone sat in China or anyone else to that matter because Ive used enough hgh to know something is seriously wrong with many of Chinese hgh manufacturers especially the generic market.


for most part of what you say i totally agree. especially regaring ankebio.

but what about jintropin? did you ever tried it at least before the 08' olympics? another good rep. product was dr. lin **********, i heard of many people glad with that product. what you think about this two products? one is made by a reputable company one is ugl. dr lin worked in gensci for few years (and no, he wasn't a janitor)

one thing i know for sure is that hgh should not give bloat, maybe very few days when starting and using a big dose but afterwards it must all ware off. here is where the problem comes in place. many many users mostly the unexperienced ones are boasting the hgh brands that are making them gain weight on hgh. after 2-3 weeks they're already "bigger" and their very happy with that. with real hgh in 2 weeks you feel almost nothing, and maybe here is where the whole bloating scheme comes in. i'm pretty sure no manufacturer is cutting its purity or dosage because of commercial purposes since their manufacturing cost is like 30% of the end market price. if they are cutting dosage to half their are increasing their profit with approximately 15%. that makes no business sense. so why would some manufacturers make their hgh bloat? maybe they put something in that increases water-retention so that the foolish users can feel for the whole "getting bigger" thing. its obvious the market-size is big and the people that really know what real hgh is is very very small, so the random user is using growth hormone just for the whole "growth" idea, they think they'll turn into Coleman in few hgh cycles. from what i'm reading on few forums that seems to be the case, otherwise why would people go and buy that shit IPChina is selling or other guys like that? people selling high bloating so called hgh should go off the market in few months because they would never have repetitive customers, if the customers would really know what to expect. since they don't, they keep buying that shit thinking is real hgh. so like i've said, the problem is the users not the manufacturers. chinese have been making shit raw materials (for steroids ) for years, but when the market got smarter and the middleman started analyzing, they rapidly increase the purity and reduced drastically the contaminants. i don't think they did that in the users best interest, they did that because they would have gone off the market.

----------


## calstate23

I just find it hard to believe there will ever be manufacturers making pharm grade hgh...For a long time at least....

They realize making a high quality product would make more money in the long run but it is near impossible to do that in the black market for 2 reasons...If they make high quality hgh and everyone wants their "brand" it would be hard to not only keep up with HIGH QUALITY production but it also increases their chances of getting shut down...

They can't just make the BEST hgh product known to every underground bodybuilder on the planet...Their name becomes to big and to much attention...They are like Nomads...Pack up and move production, switch name and everything else...Moving and starting production all over again EVEN if it's the same Quality product is just to much work and money...

So honestly, don't think it is all because they are just trying to RIP people off...It is the way it has to be done...If it was possible to make a high quality product FOR LONG PERIODS of time they would do it believe me...But it is what it is, making and selling illegal drugs...

That is why there is SOMETIMES a good product that does come out as they have wrestled with the idea of creating a buzz....What makes more money?? Creating a high quality product that spreads their name out there fast, make their money and then bounce?? Or just make bunk product blast the web and word of mouth bull shit and do the same thing??

Furthermore, there is manufacturers that can and do make high quality product...But stay private and sell to small group of people...Aka private manufacturers supporting the Top elite sports athletes where everything is HUSH HUSH in the first place...That is the only time HIGH QUALITY hgh and other products are made illegally for long periods of time...

----------


## swithuk

> I just find it hard to believe there will ever be manufacturers making pharm grade hgh...For a long time at least....
> 
> They realize making a high quality product would make more money in the long run but it is near impossible to do that in the black market for 2 reasons...If they make high quality hgh and everyone wants their "brand" it would be hard to not only keep up with HIGH QUALITY production but it also increases their chances of getting shut down...
> 
> They can't just make the BEST hgh product known to every underground bodybuilder on the planet...Their name becomes to big and to much attention...They are like Nomads...Pack up and move production, switch name and everything else...Moving and starting production all over again EVEN if it's the same Quality product is just to much work and money...
> 
> So honestly, don't think it is all because they are just trying to RIP people off...It is the way it has to be done...If it was possible to make a high quality product FOR LONG PERIODS of time they would do it believe me...But it is what it is, making and selling illegal drugs...
> 
> That is why there is SOMETIMES a good product that does come out as they have wrestled with the idea of creating a buzz....What makes more money?? Creating a high quality product that spreads their name out there fast, make their money and then bounce?? Or just make bunk product blast the web and word of mouth bull shit and do the same thing??
> ...


i totally agree with what you say with regards to these generics and ugl's....

however iam interested to know whats your view of gensci and ankebio as surely they differ in as much as they have invested millions , have established facilities and are on the stock market ......

----------


## calstate23

> i totally agree with what you say with regards to these generics and ugl's....
> 
> however iam interested to know whats your view of gensci and ankebio as surely they differ in as much as they have invested millions , have established facilities and are on the stock market ......


Even with licenses from the Chinese government you still have the problem of exporting the product out...Then the issue again becomes are you getting legit product?

Then you also have the issue of everyone else in the game trying to make money off the other guy and fake a brand...

I just don't see there being a no fail way to create top quality product over and over consistently without any issues unless you are part of the small elite group I talk about....When EVERYONE has something to lose that's why hush hush make all the money...Consistent over and over...Same buyers, same people...True money flow where both sides can be trusted..

----------


## marcus300

> for most part of what you say i totally agree. especially regaring ankebio.
> 
> but what about jintropin? did you ever tried it at least before the 08' olympics? another good rep. product was dr. lin **********, i heard of many people glad with that product. what you think about this two products? one is made by a reputable company one is ugl. dr lin worked in gensci for few years (and no, he wasn't a janitor)
> 
> one thing i know for sure is that hgh should not give bloat, maybe very few days when starting and using a big dose but afterwards it must all ware off. here is where the problem comes in place. many many users mostly the unexperienced ones are boasting the hgh brands that are making them gain weight on hgh. after 2-3 weeks they're already "bigger" and their very happy with that. with real hgh in 2 weeks you feel almost nothing, and maybe here is where the whole bloating scheme comes in. i'm pretty sure no manufacturer is cutting its purity or dosage because of commercial purposes since their manufacturing cost is like 30% of the end market price. if they are cutting dosage to half their are increasing their profit with approximately 15%. that makes no business sense. so why would some manufacturers make their hgh bloat? maybe they put something in that increases water-retention so that the foolish users can feel for the whole "getting bigger" thing. its obvious the market-size is big and the people that really know what real hgh is is very very small, so the random user is using growth hormone just for the whole "growth" idea, they think they'll turn into Coleman in few hgh cycles. from what i'm reading on few forums that seems to be the case, otherwise why would people go and buy that shit IPChina is selling or other guys like that? people selling high bloating so called hgh should go off the market in few months because they would never have repetitive customers, if the customers would really know what to expect. since they don't, they keep buying that shit thinking is real hgh. so like i've said, the problem is the users not the manufacturers. chinese have been making shit raw materials (for steroids) for years, but when the market got smarter and the middleman started analyzing, they rapidly increase the purity and reduced drastically the contaminants. i don't think they did that in the users best interest, they did that because they would have gone off the market.


The jins pre Olympics were very good infact everyone I
know always comments on the old jins how good and reliable they were. Ive
also had great feedback regarding the Russian/Ukraine jins what Gensi are
producing these days, I've not bought any myself yet but many of my friends
have and some guys from this board and I've not heard any bad feedback
or strange sides, infact the feedback I've got sounds like the old jins
pre Olympics times. I still would like to test them myself but I am very
confident that the Russian Jins are 100% and I cant wait to try them. The
other make you mentioned was censored for some reason but the problems
only seem to come about after the Olympics and then all the generic companies
saw a good underground market to supply and things went down hill them.

I agree and we both know that HGH shouldn't cause bloat and results are
not seen in 2-3 wks and that's how many are conned because they size increase
or in some cases weight loss as results and gains but infact real hgh doesn't
produce these types of results in such a short period of time. I personally
don't think the generic companies are cutting the dosages by 30/50% because
I believe they don't contain hgh but other chemicals what produce these
horrible sides so they not increasing their profits by 15% by cutting dosages
they are having 100% profit because they are supplying the underground
market with dangerous chemicals and not hgh.From what I've seen and heard
they don't all contain the same thing some have these dangerous chemicals
and other nothing and some have peptides but I really don't think they
contain any watered down hgh at all and the lab reports some posts are
bullshit. I've seen and experience many different sides from bloat to weight
loss and to estrogen decrease to rebound and from looking over the feedback
from members all over the forums you can see this clearly and in all honesty
I've used hgh long enough to know what is real and what isn't. I totally
agree regarding the whole people buying more because of the bloat or some
kind of results in the 2-3 mark, you can see it all over the sponsored
web site, fake accounts spreading stupid results and false lab claims to
suck new customers in. I can't believe alot of these guys don't know what
goes on with these sponsored boards and hgh sales, its laughable.

When you get a legit company like Ankbio trying to buy
me off with free hgh to keep quiet about my claims you can sniff something
is seriously wrong in China and the hgh market and the hgh I got from them
was so powerful and overdosed I am sure 4 ius was 8ius. So if they can
produce and give to me overdosed hgh to keep my quiet and it wasn't just
me who they did this too but Ronnie also they sure can produce watered
down hgh but as far as the generic companies go I think they produce nothing
like hgh but other stuff what mimics the same sides or something dangerous.
The educated guys who have used pharm grade for any length of time at a
good solid dose what produces tissue and promotes fat loss will and does
know the difference between generics and pharm is as plain as black and
white. The Chinese are not to be trusted just look at what they do to their
own people regarding drugs, foods and chemicals, they are ruthless and
they have seen a market and like you said we carry on buying it so they
will carry on producing it but eventually I either think many people are
going to have health issues or something is going to crack in another area
but they are not to be trusted.

I use to be very passionate about
this issues over the years but alot of the time I see someone praising
their rips,kigs or coloured tops and these great results I just click
off the thread and move on because its not worth arguing over the same
old stuff, they wont listen because they have blinkers on with these so
called results so all what's going to happen is a huge debate with me repeating
myself over and over again because no matter what anyone says hey wont
believe me. I trust my own experience than anyone else regarding hgh and
to me like many other guys who have used proper stuff know the Chinese
are flooding the market with this crap.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> I agree and we both know that HGH shouldn't cause bloat and results are
> not seen in 2-3 wks and that's how many are conned because they size increase
> or in some cases weight loss as results and gains but infact real hgh doesn't
> produce these types of results in such a short period of time. I personally
> don't think the generic companies are cutting the dosages by 30/50% because
> I believe they don't contain hgh but other chemicals what produce these
> horrible sides so they not increasing their profits by 15% by cutting dosages
> they are having 100% profit because they are supplying the underground
> market with dangerous chemicals and not hgh.From what I've seen and heard
> ...


I don't believe they are under dosing the HGH, it's a huge business and not like making under dosed test or spiking deca with a little test and no deca, so the user feels something. It's flat out fake. The thread is repetitive and i also feel one day someone is going to get a batch that causes serious damage and will be hospitalized. Most people have sides just weird enough to tolerate and quit taking. When serious damage occurs, the products will be looked at harder and crack down on at least for awhile. If you have been on this thread for awhile and know about the fake HGH, you are only enabling a new person reading this, by wanting more investigation, testing etc. Move forward and place your energy into finding real pharm grade or not take the product until you can find real. But this thread keeps getting re started about the same issues. "How can we convince ourselves it's real"? IT'S NOT! If the Russian jins are good, they are an exception and not Chinese. There are new people joining this seeking knowledge, so they may be influenced in the wrong direction, by what is said here.

----------


## marcus300

> I don't believe they are under dosing the HGH, it's a huge business and not like making under dosed test or spiking deca with a little test and no deca, so the user feels something. It's flat out fake. The thread is repetitive and i also feel one day someone is going to get a batch that causes serious damage and will be hospitalized. Most people have sides just weird enough to tolerate and quit taking. When serious damage occurs, the products will be looked at harder and crack down on at least for awhile. If you have been on this thread for awhile and know about the fake HGH, you are only enabling a new person reading this, by wanting more investigation, testing etc. Move forward and place your energy into finding real pharm grade or not take the product until you can find real. But this thread keeps getting re started about the same issues. "How can we convince ourselves it's real"? IT'S NOT! If the Russian jins are good, they are an exception and not Chinese. There are new people joining this seeking knowledge, so they may be influenced in the wrong direction, by what is said here.


I think this thread shows the right direction but many won't listen and still think their source is 100% lol...

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> I think this thread shows the right direction but many won't listen and still think their source is 100% lol...


I guess so, the day they take a batch bad enough to cause serious damage, there will be cause for a real investigation and it won't be by the people on this board. Most people feeling sick blow it off and really are not going to tell there doc. But a serious problem and they will have to.

----------


## Far from massive

One quick question. I have never done any pharma HGG but would like to know, real HGH is said to cause changes in sleep, vivid dreams, etc. 

My question to those of you who have done real pharma HGH how long do the changes in sleep take to show themselves.

PS I know that there are likely a ton of chems that could mimice these changes so using this as a diagnostic tool would be a fools mission. So don't worry that is not why I am asking.

----------


## swithuk

i think this is the best thread on here 

i think ugl's cant produce g.h . thats the whole point . its fairly easy and inexpensive to do what they do so thats why they do it . in my mind generics cant be real g.h , ever . because its impossible for these places to really make it

----------


## Sheven

> I just find it hard to believe there will ever be manufacturers making pharm grade hgh...For a long time at least....
> 
> They realize making a high quality product would make more money in the long run but it is near impossible to do that in the black market for 2 reasons...If they make high quality hgh and everyone wants their "brand" it would be hard to not only keep up with HIGH QUALITY production but it also increases their chances of getting shut down...
> 
> They can't just make the BEST hgh product known to every underground bodybuilder on the planet...Their name becomes to big and to much attention...They are like Nomads...Pack up and move production, switch name and everything else...Moving and starting production all over again EVEN if it's the same Quality product is just to much work and money...
> 
> So honestly, don't think it is all because they are just trying to RIP people off...It is the way it has to be done...If it was possible to make a high quality product FOR LONG PERIODS of time they would do it believe me...But it is what it is, making and selling illegal drugs...
> 
> That is why there is SOMETIMES a good product that does come out as they have wrestled with the idea of creating a buzz....What makes more money?? Creating a high quality product that spreads their name out there fast, make their money and then bounce?? Or just make bunk product blast the web and word of mouth bull shit and do the same thing??
> ...


way to many assumptions in your post. if a manufacturer can make high quality (lets say 95%) its not hard at all to keep the same quality always. gensci has done it for the last decade or so, other's can do it also. gensci had tens of engineers that left the company and went south, that's how most of the UGL hgh factories got built. don't forget hgh is made out of a bacteria, the whole manufacturing process is not that expensive, the technology to manufacture it (how to manufacture it) and the machines cost. once you got that in place, making hgh is just a small portion of the cost. the factories selling legit hgh make way more money than the once that scam people, the once that scam people are the middle-man buying some GHRP-6 or some AI and ask a company that owns a lyphilizer to pack them for him. a factory that spent 800.000$ on the tehnology and 1.2$mil on the machines won't find themself filling the vials with ghrp-6 or other fake shit, why go all the effort to have hgh capabilities and then do some shit products?

i'd define the situation as following: most of the products on the market are in fact brands and products pushed by middleman and internet sellers that manufacture their vials in factories that can do freeze drying (using all sort of chemicals mostly peptides and metylprednisolone) . other big part of goods are products ordered by middleman from decent hgh factories but they order 4iu vial and then label them and sell them as 8 or 10iu. dr. lin product for example was ugl and has been good for years, everybody happy with him and no bloat, but keep in mind that he had a tight control on his sales team and they were selling exactly his product not what they wanted.

----------


## alex18

> One quick question. I have never done any pharma HGG but would like to know, real HGH is said to cause changes in sleep, vivid dreams, etc. 
> 
> *My question to those of you who have done real pharma HGH how long do the changes in sleep take to show themselves.
> *
> PS I know that there are likely a ton of chems that could mimice these changes so using this as a diagnostic tool would be a fools mission. So don't worry that is not why I am asking.


i notice within the first 2 days - awesome sleep and awesome dreams!

----------


## calstate23

> way to many assumptions in your post. if a manufacturer can make high quality (lets say 95%) its not hard at all to keep the same quality always. gensci has done it for the last decade or so, other's can do it also. gensci had tens of engineers that left the company and went south, that's how most of the UGL hgh factories got built. don't forget hgh is made out of a bacteria, the whole manufacturing process is not that expensive, the technology to manufacture it (how to manufacture it) and the machines cost. once you got that in place, making hgh is just a small portion of the cost. the factories selling legit hgh make way more money than the once that scam people, the once that scam people are the middle-man buying some GHRP-6 or some AI and ask a company that owns a lyphilizer to pack them for him. a factory that spent 800.000$ on the tehnology and 1.2$mil on the machines won't find themself filling the vials with ghrp-6 or other fake shit, why go all the effort to have hgh capabilities and then do some shit products?
> 
> i'd define the situation as following: most of the products on the market are in fact brands and products pushed by middleman and internet sellers that manufacture their vials in factories that can do freeze drying (using all sort of chemicals mostly peptides and metylprednisolone) . other big part of goods are products ordered by middleman from decent hgh factories but they order 4iu vial and then label them and sell them as 8 or 10iu. dr. lin product for example was ugl and has been good for years, everybody happy with him and no bloat, but keep in mind that he had a tight control on his sales team and they were selling exactly his product not what they wanted.


Because it really doesn't matter what they do...It could be baby powder for anyone knows and people will buy it...With all the bb forums and global internet access it's easy for many people to sell bogus products...

Even if someone had a quality product it wouldn't matter because the market will kill them with fakes and such other crap..Whether it's fake or not people get their vials and boxes with labels on it and if it's bunk it spreads fast...Then, even if quality product people are saying it bunk...

That is what I'm talking about...No one can get consistency with the global market because whether product good or bad they will get screwed...

For example, rips....Everyone and their grandma talking about rips how good they are and such...Even in my town I heard people talking about them...Once word spreads of the so called rips that are killer every other site is know selling "rips" and every other scammer going to sell wack ass product and call them rips..

Even then sell poop in a jar to younger guys because they heard about rips too...It's the internet which killed the market..

----------


## Sheven

> Because it really doesn't matter what they do...It could be baby powder for anyone knows and people will buy it...With all the bb forums and global internet access it's easy for many people to sell bogus products...
> 
> Even if someone had a quality product it wouldn't matter because the market will kill them with fakes and such other crap..Whether it's fake or not people get their vials and boxes with labels on it and if it's bunk it spreads fast...Then, even if quality product people are saying it bunk...
> 
> That is what I'm talking about...No one can get consistency with the global market because whether product good or bad they will get screwed...
> 
> For example, rips....Everyone and their grandma talking about rips how good they are and such...Even in my town I heard people talking about them...Once word spreads of the so called rips that are killer every other site is know selling "rips" and every other scammer going to sell wack ass product and call them rips..
> 
> Even then sell poop in a jar to younger guys because they heard about rips too...It's the internet which killed the market..


you're right the market is full of fakes and scammers but this guys are not the hgh factories. the hgh factories have interest to sell IU's and i can't give exact figures because i don't have them by hand, but the manufacturing of somatropin bulk raw material from e.coli seeds costs around 5-8% of the final product cost (vials). the rest to 30% is the glass vials, stoppers, washing, sterilizing, filling and freeze drying and the absorption of the building, technology and machinery cost. what i'm saying is that once one can make 95% purity hgh, it's highly highly likely for them to prefer making good dosage products because it makes no financial sense to cut down the dosage. the ones who make shit products are the one that didn't spend the money for the machinery and technology.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> i notice within the first 2 days - awesome sleep and awesome dreams!


Maybe i'm different, but i never had any awesome dreams, LOL-I wish i did tho. I have never noticed those symptoms in two days. The sleep comes better, but not that quick for me. Maybe because i am a bit older than most here notice a more youthful skin, hair grows very fast. Stay leaner and muscle maturity and density hangs in there better when your older. I say older being 58. My use of it is long term as long as i can pay for it on an anti-aging basis. I can win bets all day on my age, but it's not just because of HGH. I have been working out most of my life. I never really started taking anything till in my early fifties. So my workout ethic has been there without the help. Too many young guys today can not work out without taking something, as they do not get the rapid results. Example: My schedule has been terrible for awhile now, working all through nite and training people during the day. I am getting 2-3 lame workouts per week in. I am staying cosmetically very good. People think i'm training my ass off. I feel crappy due to lack of sleep, but the hgh is very forgiving on weak diet and training regimen. Trust me i will say again because i have taken the various chinese brands and when you are on the real deal, there is no QUESTION it is real. I quit taking hgh for a year-plus because after the last batch of Jin Junk, i figured until i get real pharm grade, no more HGH. This is why i state if you can't get real, just quit till you can, but don't expect the junk to turn real because of your needs. That's what the sellers are looking for. I recently ran into a "salesman" for lack of a better word and he was telling me about his HGH at 180.00 a kit. I looked him in the eye and told him all of your stuff is junk! Every bit of it and i told the guy he is buying from the same thing. All your crap is fake and i will tell everyone buying from you, your HGH is Fake. He looked like he saw a ghost, because i also told him about side effects which i am sure he has already experienced. Told him look at me and look at you and your 20 years younger and doing 5 times more shit! The guys in the gym taking this crap are taking 8 ius a day. The mentality is very small, because they hear pro's take that much. Except the pro's are getting real products and taking more. It's a great endorsement, so and so takes the generics, he buys from me. Except what he buys from that guy are not the generics , he is buying real at a deal and being used as an endorsement for it. Or the salesman is just flat out lying.

----------


## marcus300

> you're right the market is full of fakes and scammers but this guys are not the hgh factories. the hgh factories have interest to sell IU's and i can't give exact figures because i don't have them by hand, but the manufacturing of somatropin bulk raw material from e.coli seeds costs around 5-8% of the final product cost (vials). the rest to 30% is the glass vials, stoppers, washing, sterilizing, filling and freeze drying and the absorption of the building, technology and machinery cost. what i'm saying is that once one can make 95% purity hgh, it's highly highly likely for them to prefer making good dosage products because it makes no financial sense to cut down the dosage. the ones who make shit products are the one that didn't spend the money for the machinery and technology.


Don't agree at all. Ankbio are a factory what sold fakes and underdosed hgh and it wasn't no middle man. It was direct to the factory and infact they opened a fake site selling hgh which they advertised on their site as a site what sells fakes and they have nothing to do with their factory. The only reason why they started to sell fakes again was for more profit otherwise they would carry on selling real hgh. The ugl or generic companies don't produce hgh they only interested in money and if these licenced labs like ankbio will sell fakes then the ugl sure will.

----------


## Xtralarg

I started this thread 2 1/2 years ago and since then people have debated the subject fiercely.

Some people have personal experiences and opinions which have been formed after years of using hgh, some have knowledge of the science which goes into making hgh and some are simply here to learn. 

It is a fact that the human brain wants to believe whatever is best for the individual, the old 'it'll never happen to me' syndrome. However, there is no smoke without fire. The answer is simple, don't believe any hype or anyone trying to convince you by blinding you with science, it's all propaganda. The stuff coming out of china is sh1t (except possibly the jins available via the Ukraine). We are taking about china FFS! The days of getting HGH from that place are over. They are laughing at the rest of the world, don't let them laugh at you.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Don't agree at all. Ankbio are a factory what sold fakes and underdosed hgh and it wasn't no middle man. It was direct to the factory and infact they opened a fake site selling hgh which they advertised on their site as a site what sells fakes and they have nothing to do with their factory. The only reason why they started to sell fakes again was for more profit otherwise they would carry on selling real hgh. The ugl or generic companies don't produce hgh they only interested in money and if these licenced labs like ankbio will sell fakes then the ugl sure will.


Yes i believe that also, the same with the Jintropin site that has authentication labels etc. Jintropin is not about to let some other company continue to sell fakes without taking action. It's a site run by them and it keeps the junk away from the real. iN china they would probably kill them for doing that. These companies just took a look at the black market and went in.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> I started this thread 2 1/2 years ago and since then people have debated the subject fiercely.
> 
> Some people have personal experiences and opinions which have been formed after years of using hgh, some have knowledge of the science which goes into making hgh and some are simply here to learn. 
> 
> It is a fact that the human brain wants to believe whatever is best for the individual, the old 'it'll never happen to me' syndrome. However, there is no smoke without fire. The answer is simple, don't believe any hype or anyone trying to convince you by blinding you with science, it's all propaganda. The stuff coming out of china is sh1t (except possibly the jins available via the Ukraine). We are taking about china FFS! The days of getting HGH from that place are over. They are laughing at the rest of the world, don't let them laugh at you.


Well stated!

----------


## Angel of death

This thread actually makes the internet a better place. So much good info and different views of things in here...you compare this to a thread over at professional muscle where a guys bragging about how he has severe bloating on riptropin and it must be the most potent stuff out there. its unfortunate that both will come up in a search engine just the same...

----------


## Edwin23q

> This thread actually makes the internet a better place. So much good info and different views of things in here...you compare this to a thread over at professional muscle where a guys bragging about how he has severe bloating on riptropin and it must be the most potent stuff out there. its unfortunate that both will come up in a search engine just the same...


Yep agree 100%.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

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## likelifting

I don't know anyone who has been hosptialized due to fake growth that has harmed them. I don't know of anyone that has a serious medical condition due to fake growth. This thread makes it sound very rampant, but I dont know of anyone that inected fake growth and ended up doing serious harm to themselves because of it. 

I'm sure couterfeited growth is everywhere, but harmful? Maybe, I just haven't heard of anyone being harmed yet.

----------


## BlInDsIdE

> I started this thread 2 1/2 years ago and since then people have debated the subject fiercely.
> 
> Some people have personal experiences and opinions which have been formed after years of using hgh, some have knowledge of the science which goes into making hgh and some are simply here to learn. 
> 
> It is a fact that the human brain wants to believe whatever is best for the individual, the old 'it'll never happen to me' syndrome. However, there is no smoke without fire. The answer is simple, don't believe any hype or anyone trying to convince you by blinding you with science, it's all propaganda. The stuff coming out of china is sh1t (except possibly the jins available via the Ukraine). We are taking about china FFS! The days of getting HGH from that place are over. They are laughing at the rest of the world, don't let them laugh at you.


IMO this is THE most important/informative thread on the current state of the HGH market on any board- thanks for creating it Xtra and for all those knowledgeable members that have taken so much time and energy to contribute their knowledge and experiences.

----------


## Edwin23q

> I don't know anyone who has been hosptialized due to fake growth that has harmed them. I don't know of anyone that has a serious medical condition due to fake growth. This thread makes it sound very rampant, but I dont know of anyone that inected fake growth and ended up doing serious harm to themselves because of it.
> 
> I'm sure couterfeited growth is everywhere, but harmful? Maybe, I just haven't heard of anyone being harmed yet.


I know what your saying but tell me this;
You come across a stranger on the street that tells you here is some white powder, pay me $xxxx for it, mix it with water and inject yourself every day with it for the next 3 months and you'll lose weight, gain muscle and look and feel younger and healthier.

What would your answer be?
Buying from unknown sources if in person or over the Internet is exactly the same scenario.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

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## EasyDoesIt

> I don't know anyone who has been hosptialized due to fake growth that has harmed them. I don't know of anyone that has a serious medical condition due to fake growth. This thread makes it sound very rampant, but I dont know of anyone that inected fake growth and ended up doing serious harm to themselves because of it. 
> 
> I'm sure couterfeited growth is everywhere, but harmful? Maybe, I just haven't heard of anyone being harmed yet.


No I have not either, but it doesn't mean it has not happened or will not happen. Many people are not always ready to start selling themselves out as to buying HGH without a script. Especially if they are into other illegal activities, but that is not the point. Here are two links posted earlier in this thread by Sheven. The first one is regarding chinese poisoning there own people.

http://offbeatchina.com/from-waste-l...posed-in-hebei


The one below is hgh hydrocortisone and prednisone being passed off as HGH. Prednisone is a very powerful drug that will in fact destroy your bones after prolonged use. Prolonged could be 4-5 yrs. I would not take injecting products that you are not 100% sure of to lightly, but that's your choice, many people here would like to know that information. They can decide themselves wether or not to take the risk. 
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...3#.UO96q4njkXQ

----------


## Xtralarg

> I don't know anyone who has been hosptialized due to fake growth that has harmed them. I don't know of anyone that has a serious medical condition due to fake growth. This thread makes it sound very rampant, but I dont know of anyone that inected fake growth and ended up doing serious harm to themselves because of it. 
> 
> I'm sure couterfeited growth is everywhere, but harmful? Maybe, I just haven't heard of anyone being harmed yet.


My personal experience with fake hgh.

Severe water retention, in excess of 30 lbs.
Systolic BP in excess of 200, with a resting pulse of >100, this is life threatening
Severe estrogen rebound.

Now you know someone who was hospitalised with a serious medical condition.

----------


## Edwin23q

> My personal experience with fake hgh.
> 
> Severe water retention, in excess of 30 lbs.
> Systolic BP in excess of 200, with a resting pulse of >100, this is life threatening
> Severe estrogen rebound.
> 
> Now you know someone who was hospitalised with a serious medical condition.


How many IU's were you taking and what else were you using at the time.
I think this is critical info for everyone else reading this so your honesty is appreciated.

Thanks

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

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## Sheven

> Don't agree at all. Ankbio are a factory what sold fakes and underdosed hgh and it wasn't no middle man. It was direct to the factory and infact they opened a fake site selling hgh which they advertised on their site as a site what sells fakes and they have nothing to do with their factory. The only reason why they started to sell fakes again was for more profit otherwise they would carry on selling real hgh. The ugl or generic companies don't produce hgh they only interested in money and if these licenced labs like ankbio will sell fakes then the ugl sure will.


The ankiebio story is different, i know their export dep. and they do that by themselves, its like a rouge operation inside the factory itself. Its done by the few people that export business and ever since this kind of business doesn't even come on the companies balancesheets since is illegal even in china (you can't export RX medicine that is not registered in other country neither have any import license on the behalf of the client) the export few girls and a guy started selling on the b2b websites. If you actually meet the company managers you'll see they aren't even able to provide you with this kind of service and they always need the license and the paperwork in order to sell this stuff, in comparison with the internet-team that sells to anyone. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the scheme is going up to the managers but i've seen export departments act completely independent from the factory business way many times in China. And since GenSci never did this kind of operation and the companies are practically identical, i'd say the problem here is the export department. Thus the conclusion that you can't trust chinese companies, no doubt.

----------


## Xtralarg

I wasn't taking any ammount of iu's because is wasn't hgh! It's pointless if I say I was using what I thought was 4,6,8 or any figure because the ammount of anti-diuretic and whatever else contained in the vial was probably unique to that batch and/or brand at the time, these operations are not exactly regulated are they! 

I've taken this 'hgh' both on and off an aas cycle with the same catastrophic results! My cycles at the time were probably pharm grade test only, and I would of been on about 1000mg pw along with my usual AI.

I hope this helps.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> I don't know anyone who has been hosptialized due to fake growth that has harmed them. I don't know of anyone that has a serious medical condition due to fake growth. This thread makes it sound very rampant, but I dont know of anyone that inected fake growth and ended up doing serious harm to themselves because of it. 
> 
> I'm sure couterfeited growth is everywhere, but harmful? Maybe, I just haven't heard of anyone being harmed yet.


So because you don't know anyone who's been hospitalized or harmed from bunk GH that means it hasn't happened? 

There's been many members here (including myself) as well as a couple upper level staff who've had serious health issues from it - just because you haven't heard about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. When the old kigs were going around lots of guys had issues similar to xtralarg.

----------


## marcus300

> The ankiebio story is different, i know their export dep. and they do that by themselves, its like a rouge operation inside the factory itself. Its done by the few people that export business and ever since this kind of business doesn't even come on the companies balancesheets since is illegal even in china (you can't export RX medicine that is not registered in other country neither have any import license on the behalf of the client) the export few girls and a guy started selling on the b2b websites. If you actually meet the company managers you'll see they aren't even able to provide you with this kind of service and they always need the license and the paperwork in order to sell this stuff, in comparison with the internet-team that sells to anyone. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the scheme is going up to the managers but i've seen export departments act completely independent from the factory business way many times in China. And since GenSci never did this kind of operation and the companies are practically identical, i'd say the problem here is the export department. Thus the conclusion that you can't trust chinese companies, no doubt.


Exactly that story is different just like the rest. The story is always different.
They can't be trusted .

----------


## marcus300

> The ankiebio story is different, i know their export dep. and they do that by themselves, its like a rouge operation inside the factory itself. Its done by the few people that export business and ever since this kind of business doesn't even come on the companies balancesheets since is illegal even in china (you can't export RX medicine that is not registered in other country neither have any import license on the behalf of the client) the export few girls and a guy started selling on the b2b websites. If you actually meet the company managers you'll see they aren't even able to provide you with this kind of service and they always need the license and the paperwork in order to sell this stuff, in comparison with the internet-team that sells to anyone. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the scheme is going up to the managers but i've seen export departments act completely independent from the factory business way many times in China. And since GenSci never did this kind of operation and the companies are practically identical, i'd say the problem here is the export department. Thus the conclusion that you can't trust chinese companies, no doubt.


Exactly that story is different just like the rest. The story is always different.
They can't be trusted .

----------


## marcus300

> I wasn't taking any ammount of iu's because is wasn't hgh! It's pointless if I say I was using what I thought was 4,6,8 or any figure because the ammount of anti-diuretic and whatever else contained in the vial was probably unique to that batch and/or brand at the time, these operations are not exactly regulated are they! 
> 
> I've taken this 'hgh' both on and off an aas cycle with the same catastrophic results! My cycles at the time were probably pharm grade test only, and I would of been on about 1000mg pw along with my usual AI.
> 
> I hope this helps.


I remember it well  :Wink:

----------


## Xtralarg

> I remember it well


Don't even think about it!

----------


## cyounger100

> My personal experience with fake hgh.
> 
> Severe water retention, in excess of 30 lbs.
> Systolic BP in excess of 200, with a resting pulse of >100, this is life threatening
> Severe estrogen rebound.
> 
> Now you know someone who was hospitalised with a serious medical condition.


same exact thing minus the bp problem happened too me on rips stuff is such trash and dangerous and i wasnt running anything else at times

----------


## calstate23

How about we just put it this way.......Let's just say the Chinese were making TOP QUALITY HGH....

And even if they were, like I said earlier, the internet, the market, and even down to the local Joe Blow at your gym will destroy the credibility and consistency of getting that high quality product...Scammers will over take the internet sites, ads and dealers will be blowing up the forums, and even the local gym rat will take advantage of these so called great "brands" and make some labels claiming it's x, y, or z....You also have exporting which I said earlier which makes an issue as well..

And this is the scenario IF they were making top quality product...Bottom line goes to show no point in using it...

----------


## likelifting

> So because you don't know anyone who's been hospitalized or harmed from bunk GH that means it hasn't happened? 
> 
> There's been many members here (including myself) as well as a couple upper level staff who've had serious health issues from it - just because you haven't heard about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. When the old kigs were going around lots of guys had issues similar to xtralarg.


Did I say that? No.

Other than this thread, I've never heard anyone talking about buying what they thought was growth and ended up in the hospital or had a serious medical condition because of it. Thats what I said. I'm not as experienced as most of you, but I have been around the gym for decades. 

I was running what I thought was growth, but because of this thread I stopped them. So hopefully peeps won't get all pissy about my post because I don't know anyone who had these issues. I heeded the warning of this thread and stopped my kigs. 

Maybe its something that people don't want to talk about in person. Maybe its something that is easier to admit anonymously on a message board as opposed to walking up to your buddy and saying "Hey check this out. Check out how stupid I am. I bought this stuff and injected it not knowing for sure what it was." <-- I trust my source, but basically thats what I did with the kigs. He still says they're legit, but he could be in the dark too. 

Hope that clarifies my post.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> Maybe its something that people don't want to talk about in person. Maybe its something that is easier to admit anonymously on a message board as opposed to walking up to your buddy and saying "Hey check this out. Check out how stupid I am. I bought this stuff and injected it not knowing for sure what it was."


Exactly. It's embarrassing to admit to injecting something dangerous or harmful for no good reason. Especially when the reason for injecting xyz chemical instead of real GH was to save money. 




> Hope that clarifies my post.


Yep.  :Smilie:

----------


## Angel of death

I'll go ahead and come out fully with my experience here. Before I recently got some real stuff, I was on what I believe to be fake blue tops and riptropin. I think BOTH had a negative effect on my body. The rips raised my blood pressure and resting heartbeat, and gave me insane water retention. I stopped those a little before the blue tops. The blues messed with my joints real bad, my knees are still recovering, they also gave me insane anxiety for a while that even a high dose of benzos couldn't compete with. I had a few sleepless nights just praying I didn't mess myself up beyond repair. Thank god slowly but surely the symptoms went away and I'm almost 100% now, probably with the help of real hgh. 

I will NEVER make this mistake again, and the messed up part about these blue tops was at first I was sleeping great and that faded away to insomnia, so they're doing their very best to get you hooked on these chemicals and mimic the effects of hgh.

----------


## marcus300

> I'll go ahead and come out fully with my experience here. Before I recently got some real stuff, I was on what I believe to be fake blue tops and riptropin. I think BOTH had a negative effect on my body. The rips raised my blood pressure and resting heartbeat, and gave me insane water retention. I stopped those a little before the blue tops. The blues messed with my joints real bad, my knees are still recovering, they also gave me insane anxiety for a while that even a high dose of benzos couldn't compete with. I had a few sleepless nights just praying I didn't mess myself up beyond repair. Thank god slowly but surely the symptoms went away and I'm almost 100% now, probably with the help of real hgh. 
> 
> I will NEVER make this mistake again, and the messed up part about these blue tops was at first I was sleeping great and that faded away to insomnia, so they're doing their very best to get you hooked on these chemicals and mimic the effects of hgh.


Thanks for the feedback, just strengthens the case of what most of us are saying about the whole generic market. Some guys actually think these sides are gains that's the sad part or laughable...

----------


## likelifting

I didn't have any negative sides from my experience with kigs. Actually my joint pain in my knee and shoulder went away. Cortizone? I didn't gain any weight, but only ran 200ius, so I wouldn't expect to. I did have increased vascularity and great pumps. But there are a lot of things that can give you great pumps and vascularity. 

So everything was looking good. Then this site showed up on one of my searches and you guys ruined everything for me.  :Smilie:  Seriously, I read the thread and thought fvck it, nothing bad is happening to me short term, but I really dont' know what it is. Not that I know for sure my UGL Anavar is Anavar, and my etc, etc, etc. 

After reading this thread and bumping to 10ius a day WITHOUT significant sides, I decided to stop them. 

So that ended it for me.

----------


## likelifting

> I'll go ahead and come out fully with my experience here. Before I recently got some real stuff, I was on what I believe to be fake blue tops and riptropin. I think BOTH had a negative effect on my body. The rips raised my blood pressure and resting heartbeat, and gave me insane water retention. I stopped those a little before the blue tops. The blues messed with my joints real bad, my knees are still recovering, they also gave me insane anxiety for a while that even a high dose of benzos couldn't compete with. I had a few sleepless nights just praying I didn't mess myself up beyond repair. *Thank god slowly but surely the symptoms went away and I'm almost 100% now*, probably with the help of real hgh. 
> 
> I will NEVER make this mistake again, and the messed up part about these blue tops was at first I was sleeping great and that faded away to insomnia, so they're doing their very best to get you hooked on these chemicals and mimic the effects of hgh.


Glad you recovered and thanks for sharing that.

----------


## likelifting

> My personal experience with fake hgh.
> 
> Severe water retention, in excess of 30 lbs.
> Systolic BP in excess of 200, with a resting pulse of >100, this is life threatening
> Severe estrogen rebound.
> 
> Now you know someone who was hospitalised with a serious medical condition.


Thanks Xtra for posting that. 

How are you doing now? Hope you've recovered.

----------


## Sheven

> I didn't have any negative sides from my experience with kigs. Actually my joint pain in my knee and shoulder went away. Cortizone? I didn't gain any weight, but only ran 200ius, so I wouldn't expect to. I did have increased vascularity and great pumps. But there are a lot of things that can give you great pumps and vascularity. 
> 
> So everything was looking good. Then this site showed up on one of my searches and you guys ruined everything for me.  Seriously, I read the thread and thought fvck it, nothing bad is happening to me short term, but I really dont' know what it is. Not that I know for sure my UGL Anavar is Anavar, and my etc, etc, etc. 
> 
> After reading this thread and bumping to 10ius a day WITHOUT significant sides, I decided to stop them. 
> 
> So that ended it for me.


maybe it was real hgh.

----------


## likelifting

> maybe it was real hgh.


I didn't toss it. Still have a couple of hundred ius. But I read HGH is so small they can't test a vial or something like that. I'll just hold onto it. Takes up very little space in my fridge.

----------


## marcus300

> maybe it was real hgh.


He took ten ius daily and didn't get any sides....

Also its kigs lol

----------


## likelifting

I'm begining to think if a bunch of body builders are at a party and the party is going slow all anyone would have to say is "KIGS" and the room would burst out in laughter. 

 :Smilie:

----------


## alex18

> *he took ten ius daily and didn't get any sides....*
> 
> also its kigs lol


lol.

----------


## Angel of death

I hate to say it but there is just so much god damn money in the fake hgh business. A co-worker of mine paid 200 dollars for some "spray under the tongue" type hgh bullshit. ordered it off a website. If your average person doesn't even know that you have to inject hgh for it to work think of how helpless so many people are purchasing these generics and what not.

----------


## 3up3down

What's the big deal?

----------


## marcus300

> What's the big deal?



Read the rules before posting again, we don't allow source talk. Thanks

----------


## Angel of death

In addition to what marcus said, how about reading the other 39 pages of this thread to find out why your question is stupid as all hell

----------


## 3up3down

My bad.. Just don't want to put some junk in my body.

----------


## Xtralarg

> Thanks Xtra for posting that. 
> 
> How are you doing now? Hope you've recovered.


Ask Marcus how I am, he knows!

----------


## likelifting

> Ask Marcus how I am, he knows!


Ok. Hey Marcus how is Xtralarge doing? 

lol

----------


## marcus300

> Ok. Hey Marcus how is Xtralarge doing? 
> 
> lol


He's doing fine  :Smilie: 

His bf is coming down, muscle tissue is increasing and he's a strong old bull  :Smilie: 

He's doing really good

----------


## likelifting

^ Good to hear. If he looks anything like his avi, he's looking strong.

----------


## likelifting

> I hate to say it but *there is just so much god damn money in the fake hgh business*. A co-worker of mine paid 200 dollars for some "spray under the tongue" type hgh bullshit. ordered it off a website. If your average person doesn't even know that you have to inject hgh for it to work think of how helpless so many people are purchasing these generics and what not.


It sure seems like it when true manufacturers are doing lot # checks, etc, on websites, etc, to protect their brand. 

It should be legal and controlled, imo.

----------


## lovbyts

> I hate to say it but there is just so much god damn money in the fake hgh business. A co-worker of mine paid 200 dollars for some "spray under the tongue" type hgh bullshit. ordered it off a website. If your average person doesn't even know that you have to inject hgh for it to work think of how helpless so many people are purchasing these generics and what not.


haha I had some guy call me about 2 years ago trying to sell me HGH spray. I knew more about HGH than he did and asked him how a live molecule that is fragile could live in a alcohol base spray and be dispensed via spray? He finally admitted it had NO hgh in it, only some natural stuff that was supposed to increase your natural HGH output by 300% lol. I told him I can get the same thing at GNC of online for $18 a bottle if I wanted to waste my money.
He hung up. lol




> It sure seems like it when true manufacturers are doing lot # checks, etc, on websites, etc, to protect their brand. 
> 
> It should be legal and controlled, imo.


True manufactures do not advertise online or have lot number checks. That is all a ploy to help convince you it's real. How hard do you think that is to do??? Not hard. Simple code. 5+ years ago one or two sites did this and now everyone is doing it. Doesnt mean jack but people are falling for it left and right.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> haha I had some guy call me about 2 years ago trying to sell me HGH spray. I knew more about HGH than he did and asked him how a live molecule that is fragile could live in a alcohol base spray and be dispensed via spray? He finally admitted it had NO hgh in it, only some natural stuff that was supposed to increase your natural HGH output by 300% lol. I told him I can get the same thing at GNC of online for $18 a bottle if I wanted to waste my money.
> He hung up. lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HAHA That's great you called him out on that! There was some pyramid scheme selling it awhile back, so there expertise comes with there distributor starter pack. 
> 
> ...


Yes this is a very important point, as this was my case, fortunately i did not keep taking it and or maybe it was not just as harmful as others, but i am familiar enough with the net that when the sides came, bloating etc. i did not think by having an authenticated label, that it must be real. I was actually more pissed because the guy that sold it to me kept saying he had been dealing with his source for many years and he really trusted him. I told him i don't know his source, but i don't trust him. I also asked him how many kits he had. He knew what the point of that question was. I'm betting that trust stretches until the last kit is sold. Similar situation happened with another source, except his was just useless. End result was that when they sold them all, they had a new brand and this one was better. I know his purchase is not face to face and he was screwed as well. I can live with that once, but being smart enough to call his supplier out is not something everyone would do. So i do commend the people that say: "Wait a minute there is something wrong here." That person has enough integrity to not just keep buying blindly because it's his only source. This thread has a lot of good people that have made a lot of sacrifices and instead of trying to convince buyers it's good,--they are working at making this better for all of us. I am very sorry to hear about Xtralarg and angel of death or anyone else that has suffered beyond the wallet. So the posts here that are solid about fakes has come from sacrifices of health, money, time and anxiety. If your not convinced or have other beliefs, enjoy what you are buying, but many new people are here to research before they dive in or have had a problem. Hopefully they will look at the risk factor and choose the right product "If Available"? after there reading enough bad experiences. There is no agenda here but to spread the word and share, it's not the kind of thing you want to practice on.  :Cool:

----------


## likelifting

The part that is still perplexing to me is if there is so much money involved, I agree there is, why would they put something that will harm us in it? They could put some cheap peps in the vile, although they reconstitute way differently (mine did anyway). They could put harmless stuff that makes us feel good and we'd spread the word that they are legit. 

Or are there just a few places that don't have good manufacturing facilities and have no idea what they are doing and they manufacturer the product that harms us? It makes no sense to me for them to harm their cash cow.

I honestly don't think my kigs would harm me, but not sure what they are either. Would love to get a vial tested. I just don't want to put coin towards that right now. Not that they'd be able to tell me if its growth, but it seems like a lab could find some of the ingredients.

----------


## likelifting

> haha I had some guy call me about 2 years ago trying to sell me HGH spray. I knew more about HGH than he did and asked him how a live molecule that is fragile could live in a alcohol base spray and be dispensed via spray? He finally admitted it had NO hgh in it, only some natural stuff that was supposed to increase your natural HGH output by 300% lol. I told him I can get the same thing at GNC of online for $18 a bottle if I wanted to waste my money.
> He hung up. lol
> 
> 
> *True manufactures do not advertise online or have lot number checks.*  That is all a ploy to help convince you it's real. How hard do you think that is to do??? Not hard. Simple code. 5+ years ago one or two sites did this and now everyone is doing it. Doesnt mean jack but people are falling for it left and right.


That makes sense. They aren't selling to individuals. They are selling to other drug companies or health care providers, etc, is my guess. They're more of a b2b transaction. They don't need to prove themselves to individuals.

----------


## swithuk

> The part that is still perplexing to me is if there is so much money involved, I agree there is, why would they put something that will harm us in it? They could put some cheap peps in the vile, although they reconstitute way differently (mine did anyway). They could put harmless stuff that makes us feel good and we'd spread the word that they are legit. 
> 
> Or are there just a few places that don't have good manufacturing facilities and have no idea what they are doing and they manufacturer the product that harms us? It makes no sense to me for them to harm their cash cow.
> 
> I honestly don't think my kigs would harm me, but not sure what they are either. Would love to get a vial tested. I just don't want to put coin towards that right now. Not that they'd be able to tell me if its growth, but it seems like a lab could find some of the ingredients.


some do put in harmless chemicals in . some pep tides . but some wish to reproduce the sides of hgh i.e joint pain , cts etc so they find chemicals that reproduce these familiar key sides so as to convince the user they have legit g.h or atleast for as long as possible so they keep buying

----------


## likelifting

^ Gotcha. Thanks. Makes sense.

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## marcus300

> some do put in harmless chemicals in . some pep tides . but some wish to reproduce the sides of hgh i.e joint pain , cts etc so they find chemicals that reproduce these familiar key sides so as to convince the user they have legit g.h or atleast for as long as possible so they keep buying


Thats correct they put in many diffeent chemicals to mimic gh sides or to fool them that the sides are gains. Majority of these chemiclas can be dangerous long term others are plain old peptides.

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## lovbyts

> The part that is still perplexing to me is if there is so much money involved, I agree there is, why would they put something that will harm us in it? They could put some cheap peps in the vile, although they reconstitute way differently (mine did anyway). They could put harmless stuff that makes us feel good and we'd spread the word that they are legit. 
> 
> Or are there just a few places that don't have good manufacturing facilities and have no idea what they are doing and they manufacturer the product that harms us? It makes no sense to me for them to harm their cash cow.
> 
> I honestly don't think my kigs would harm me, but not sure what they are either. Would love to get a vial tested. I just don't want to put coin towards that right now. Not that they'd be able to tell me if its growth, but it seems like a lab could find some of the ingredients.


Another note, have you ever watched any of the investigation type shows where they go to china and see how they are making things that are being sent overseas? 

Did you hear about all the babies that died due to contaminated formula? They show factories who make soup and other foods being sent to the US and around the world where they literally get water from puddles or ditches that are contaminated or at least unsterilized.

There are people there that not only dont care what happens to you or me but I also believe there are people who HOPE for the worst as long as they cant be charged. That may sound harsh but if it wasnt true how could some of these places do what they do. I will try to find some of the Youtube investigations if they have not been removed.

----------


## marcus300

> Another note, have you ever watched any of the investigation type shows where they go to china and see how they are making things that are being sent overseas? 
> 
> Did you hear about all the babies that died due to contaminated formula? They show factories who make soup and other foods being sent to the US and around the world where they literally get water from puddles or ditches that are contaminated or at least unsterilized.
> 
> There are people there that not only dont care what happens to you or me but I also believe there are people who HOPE for the worst as long as they cant be charged. That may sound harsh but if it wasnt true how could some of these places do what they do. I will try to find some of the Youtube investigations if they have not been removed.


The Chinese manufacturers of pharmaceuticals are simply not trust worthy, when we get companies like Ankbio who are regulated and licenced selling fakes and underdosed hgh how can we ever trust any underground lab what produce all these generics which contain many different dangerous chemicals. China is the world leader in counterfeit drugs there are that many articles from all over the world its frightening. I hear all the time "its all about trusting your source" your source probably has no idea what they are selling and you should also never believe anything your source says anyway because its all about money for them and even though you don't want to believe it they may just know what's inside them and that can be a range of chemicals from peptides to placebo's. Ask yourself this if the licenced manufacturer sells fakes, peptides, dangerous chemical's and underdosed hgh what do you think your getting from some UGL what can give you something what will produce results of some kind and throw off a blood test! 
The so called gains and results in such a short period of time isn't how hgh works, they are simply putting chemicals inside to either make you gain water weight, lower your estrogen,some form of peptide or some form of diuretic. If any of you have ever ran pharm grade hgh for any length of time at a dose what really does transform your physique you will know exactly what I am talking about.

The world is a wash of counterfeit drugs and the main perpetrator is the Chinese, they find a demand and they counterfeit it with nothing but dangerous chemicals,peptides or use compounds what will have no effect at all. Recently I was reading about the fake anti malaria medicine found in Nigeria which contained absolutely nothing of any benefit to anyone who was suffering this life threatening illness. The packaging was identical to an Indian manufactured drug and was produced in China I believe thousands died due to not receiving the correct medication.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-20976277

Once you start searching about the biggest counterfeit country in the world you realise they can counterfeit anything and have no morals what so ever with regards to what they fake. They counterfeit weight loss drugs which contain harmful chemicals, in the article below they conducted searches across drug stores nationwide in China and detected these dangerous counterfeits. They stated companies in the southern Chinese city of Guangzhou were largely responsible for manufacturing these fake.
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-s...00009&cid=1103

A raid in the city of Guangzhou in China netter 23 million tablets of a variety of counterfeit drugs, including bogus copies of the generic breast cancer drug tamoxifen . Some of the fake cancer drugs were found in the USA, UK and contained from harmless placebo ingredient to harmful material to some of the active ingredient in the legitimate product along with unknown impurities.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...452353034.html


I believe the fake tuberculosis and malaria drugs alone what are produced in China are estimated to kill 700,000 people a year, this reports says that's the equivalent to 4 fully laden jumbo jets crashing everyday. It also states that nearly half the drugs sold in Angola, Burundi and Congo are substandard and about two thirds of artesunate (anti-malaria) drugs in Laos, Myanmar Cambodia and Vietnam contain insufficient active ingredient and most of these fakes originate from China and India.
http://www.policynetwork.net/health/...ear-new-report


The Chinese are so corrupt with their own people regarding foods,toys and medicine what do you expect they are doing with the underground bodybuilding market were the demand is extremely high for expensive products. Some of the counterfeiting companies who counterfeit medication are licensed as chemical manufacturers, which means they aren't subject to regulation or inspection by the China State Food and Drug Administration. This was stated in one of the above articles and also the SFDA and China's Ministry of Public Security didn't respond to request for comments to the article, wonder why!

I've had some of the best source's over in China and in the early years I have had decent products but over the last 5 years or so I've seen the fake/ counterfeit market expand vastly and the chemicals used get more sophisticated to con the bodybuilding market. If you read this whole thread you will slowly see the guys who have an agenda to support the generics and you will also see the guys who wont accept their hgh is fake due to their good source but the most important thing you will see as the thread starts unfolding is the concerns from various members about their hgh being fake, why would there be a high amount of people concerned about their hgh being faked. I know we aren't going to make a dent in the whole fake hgh market especially with all the source boards with fake accounts sprouting all these wonderful blood work results and lab reports but anyone with any common sense knows exactly what goes on with source boards about sucking new members in to buy from their source's. The obvious is screaming us in the face that most HGH coming out of China is either fake, dangerous, underdosed or simply not worth the vial its in.

----------


## lovbyts

^^^^ there you go, that's what I'm talking about. Great information and there is a LOT more out there available if you search for it. What is really scary is if that much information is available about fake drugs and what has been discovered how much has not been discovered. I will bet only a drop in the bucket. Most of these companies once they get shut down they just more someplace else using a different name.

You can see if they are not worried about selling what is supposed to be legit medicine that is letting thousand if not millions die why would they be concerned about a small group of people in comparison why are looking for black market HGH or any type of health enhancement? They really have no regard for human life, especially if it's not their own. How many baby girls have been found in dumpsters, ditches, shallow graves or never found over the last 50 years? They were considered worthless and discarded. How do you trust people who have such little regard for life?

Sorry I hope I didnt go to far off on a tangent.... Just hoping to open some eyes and make people think a little.

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## Edwin23q

Interesting read. I get my stuff (hgh, sus etc) from Ukraine, you think they are just as bad?

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

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## marcus300

> Interesting read. I get my stuff (hgh, sus etc) from Ukraine, you think they are just as bad?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


The chinese use many pathways to sell their powders/hgh so its hard to say what you have is real or not but ive had some good feedback regarding the jins from the Ukraine. If you search and read this thread there is some comments on it.

----------


## lovbyts

> The chinese use many pathways to sell their powders/hgh so its hard to say what you have is real or not but ive had some good feedback regarding the jins from the Ukraine. If you search and read this thread there is some comments on it.


Only problem is there is a lot of positive feedback from people who are using known generic/fake HGH also because they have no idea what real HGH is like.

I would try to find out where it is actually manufactured. Any manufacturer is also going to be distributing to legit pharmacies since that is where the real profit is and it takes millions to set up a HGH facility.

----------


## marcus300

> Only problem is there is a lot of positive feedback from people who are using known generic/fake HGH also because they have no idea what real HGH is like.
> 
> I would try to find out where it is actually manufactured. Any manufacturer is also going to be distributing to legit pharmacies since that is where the real profit is and it takes millions to set up a HGH facility.


The jins come from Gensci and they have the licence to prodce hgh for the Russian market, the ones what come from the Ukraine have had great feedback from guys who have used pharm grade and generics. Ive not used them myself yet but I know some people personally who have and they tell me its top quality. I'm sure the counterfeiters will exploit this avenue but up to now ive not heard one bad word so far.

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## lovbyts

Good to know and maybe there is hope out there yet?
Yeah that is the problem, I'm sure it wont be long before the counterfeiters are hard at work.

----------


## likelifting

But then what about my gear? Doesn't the powder originate in China?

edit...I have ugl gear.

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## marcus300

> But then what about my gear? Doesn't the powder originate in China?
> 
> edit...I have ugl gear.


I don't use UGL and never will do, you never know what you really got unless you make it yourself so I stay well clear of it.

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## likelifting

Thanks

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## Edwin23q

One thing as funny as this sounds is that one of my hgh orders of 500iu from Ukraine was seized by customs, I received a letter today informing me that it was hgh. I'll scan the letter and post it here when I get home from work. In a way it reassured me that what I'm ordering is legit.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

----------


## Sheven

> The Chinese manufacturers of pharmaceuticals are simply not trust worthy, when we get companies like Ankbio who are regulated and licenced selling fakes and underdosed hgh how can we ever trust any underground lab what produce all these generics which contain many different dangerous chemicals. China is the world leader in counterfeit drugs there are that many articles from all over the world its frightening. I hear all the time "its all about trusting your source" your source probably has no idea what they are selling and you should also never believe anything your source says anyway because its all about money for them and even though you don't want to believe it they may just know what's inside them and that can be a range of chemicals from peptides to placebo's. Ask yourself this if the licenced manufacturer sells fakes, peptides, dangerous chemical's and underdosed hgh what do you think your getting from some UGL what can give you something what will produce results of some kind and throw off a blood test! 
> The so called gains and results in such a short period of time isn't how hgh works, they are simply putting chemicals inside to either make you gain water weight, lower your estrogen,some form of peptide or some form of diuretic. If any of you have ever ran pharm grade hgh for any length of time at a dose what really does transform your physique you will know exactly what I am talking about.
> 
> The world is a wash of counterfeit drugs and the main perpetrator is the Chinese, they find a demand and they counterfeit it with nothing but dangerous chemicals,peptides or use compounds what will have no effect at all. Recently I was reading about the fake anti malaria medicine found in Nigeria which contained absolutely nothing of any benefit to anyone who was suffering this life threatening illness. The packaging was identical to an Indian manufactured drug and was produced in China I believe thousands died due to not receiving the correct medication.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-20976277
> 
> Once you start searching about the biggest counterfeit country in the world you realise they can counterfeit anything and have no morals what so ever with regards to what they fake. They counterfeit weight loss drugs which contain harmful chemicals, in the article below they conducted searches across drug stores nationwide in China and detected these dangerous counterfeits. They stated companies in the southern Chinese city of Guangzhou were largely responsible for manufacturing these fake.
> http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-s...00009&cid=1103
> 
> ...


You are spot on with what you just said. However, you've forgot to mention that 30% of all finished raw materials used in the pharmaceutical industry today in USA & EU are from China and that another 40% of the pharmaceutical intermediates used in USA & EU are from China. In the biopharmaceutical field, China is a at the top of the game supplying practically all US market. I don't want to be the advocate of the devil but we should know also this part of the story, US & EU biggest trade partner being China we should actually take in consideration they could make also decent type of products (in particular, GenSci does it why would it be so incredible for others to do it?). 

Is there a high chance to get legit pharmaceutical products purchasing them illegally from anonymous sources off a obscure bodybuilding forum using smuggling and money laundering schemes ? I'd say chances are rather low and all this doggy procedure attracts a lot of cheating potential. Adding the fact that apparently pillars of the bodybuilding community are vouching and encouraging people to buy from this shady places, adds to the risk, causing the low-priced low-quality goods suppliers to monopolize the market.

By the way like i said before, United Cell from Shanghai is selling heaps of HGH to the CIS countries through this countries state subsidized somatropin therapy, i'd be surprised to find out its a scam.

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## swithuk

.,.,

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## swithuk

> One thing as funny as this sounds is that one of my hgh orders of 500iu from Ukraine was seized by customs, I received a letter today informing me that it was hgh. I'll scan the letter and post it here when I get home from work. In a way it reassured me that what I'm ordering is legit.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


what brand of g.h is the one from ukraine ?

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## swithuk

> You are spot on with what you just said. However, you've forgot to mention that 30% of all finished raw materials used in the pharmaceutical industry today in USA & EU are from China and that another 40% of the pharmaceutical intermediates used in USA & EU are from China. In the biopharmaceutical field, China is a at the top of the game supplying practically all US market. I don't want to be the advocate of the devil but we should know also this part of the story, US & EU biggest trade partner being China we should actually take in consideration they could make also decent type of products (in particular, GenSci does it why would it be so incredible for others to do it?). 
> 
> Is there a high chance to get legit pharmaceutical products purchasing them illegally from anonymous sources off a obscure bodybuilding forum using smuggling and money laundering schemes ? I'd say chances are rather low and all this doggy procedure attracts a lot of cheating potential. Adding the fact that apparently pillars of the bodybuilding community are vouching and encouraging people to buy from this shady places, adds to the risk, causing the low-priced low-quality goods suppliers to monopolize the market.
> 
> By the way like i said before, United Cell from Shanghai is selling heaps of HGH to the CIS countries through this countries state subsidized somatropin therapy, i'd be surprised to find out its a scam.


ive never heard of 'united cell ' is this an established outfit ? is that their proper name ? do they have a Chinese license to produce g.h . whats their brand called ?
thanks ....

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## Xtralarg

> One thing as funny as this sounds is that one of my hgh orders of 500iu from Ukraine was seized by customs, I received a letter today informing me that it was hgh. I'll scan the letter and post it here when I get home from work. In a way it reassured me that what I'm ordering is legit.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


The fact it was seized doesn't mean it was real. This issue has already been discussed.

----------


## Sheven

> The jins come from Gensci and they have the licence to prodce hgh for the Russian market, the ones what come from the Ukraine have had great feedback from guys who have used pharm grade and generics. Ive not used them myself yet but I know some people personally who have and they tell me its top quality. I'm sure the counterfeiters will exploit this avenue but up to now ive not heard one bad word so far.


They have license to produce hgh for the Chinese market and export to any of the countries where is registered (russia, ukraine, hong kong, mexico). But having a license won't help at all if the business owner's ethics are sketchy or the control on the supply chain is lax (e.g. ankebio right?). After all Riptropin is also manufactured by a licensed (and also owner of export license) manufacturer.




> ive never heard of 'united cell ' is this an established outfit ? is that their proper name ? do they have a Chinese license to produce g.h . whats their brand called ?
> thanks ....


pretty established, since 1995 but their hgh is newer i think, they did it together with the national cell institute and they are also working together with the military bioresearch institute. like i've said, china is swarming with biochemists and making hgh isn't near as hard as other bioproducts that are now in fashion (for cancer and other hard to cure diseases). is just that the bodybuilding market is practically asking to be scammed and wishes do come true.

----------


## swithuk

> They have license to produce hgh for the Chinese market and export to any of the countries where is registered (russia, ukraine, hong kong, mexico). But having a license won't help at all if the business owner's ethics are sketchy or the control on the supply chain is lax (e.g. ankebio right?). After all Riptropin is also manufactured by a licensed (and also owner of export license) manufacturer.
> 
> 
> 
> pretty established, since 1995 but their hgh is newer i think, they did it together with the national cell institute and they are also working together with the military bioresearch institute. like i've said, china is swarming with biochemists and making hgh isn't near as hard as other bioproducts that are now in fashion (for cancer and other hard to cure diseases). is just that the bodybuilding market is practically asking to be scammed and wishes do come true.


very true .interesting . thanks .

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## Edwin23q

> The fact it was seized doesn't mean it was real. This issue has already been discussed.


Correct, but the fact that it was tested by customs lab and proven to be hgh does.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

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## Sheven

> Correct, but the fact that it was tested by customs lab and proven to be hgh does.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


Are you sure they got it tested or just read on the box or the cap and concluded is HGH ? Especially since it came from Ukraine (most likely Jintropin) and they come in their boxes.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

On a side note, i'd be curious how customs do conclude after a test that what the vials contain is HGH since the MS is never to the exact value of kDa and obviously they don't have standing by references of somatropin CRS.

----------


## marcus300

> You are spot on with what you just said. However, you've forgot to mention that 30% of all finished raw materials used in the pharmaceutical industry today in USA & EU are from China and that another 40% of the pharmaceutical intermediates used in USA & EU are from China. In the biopharmaceutical field, China is a at the top of the game supplying practically all US market. I don't want to be the advocate of the devil but we should know also this part of the story, US & EU biggest trade partner being China we should actually take in consideration they could make also decent type of products (in particular, GenSci does it why would it be so incredible for others to do it?). 
> 
> Is there a high chance to get legit pharmaceutical products purchasing them illegally from anonymous sources off a obscure bodybuilding forum using smuggling and money laundering schemes ? I'd say chances are rather low and all this doggy procedure attracts a lot of cheating potential. Adding the fact that apparently pillars of the bodybuilding community are vouching and encouraging people to buy from this shady places, adds to the risk, causing the low-priced low-quality goods suppliers to monopolize the market.
> 
> By the way like i said before, United Cell from Shanghai is selling heaps of HGH to the CIS countries through this countries state subsidized somatropin therapy, i'd be surprised to find out its a scam.


You have given some very valuable advice and insight into the science of hgh throughout this thread and for some you have blinded them with science but I do feel your not totally impartial and try to infulence a certain direction towards some of the generic brands from China and this is what I struggle with when I see you post. 

My reasoning behind this and what many people probably don't know anyway is your sat in a lab in China what manufacturers between other things HCG , Heparin and you also have available raw material to produce hgh or probably the chemicals to produce what many believe to be HGH. By your own words we shouldnt trust the labs in China or the Chinese yet you work in one and work for them, so when you start claiming certain generics have had good lab reports and there are some UGL's what do produce good quality hgh I get the impression your trying to influence the members with certain brands because you may be connected to them either work wise or have some personal connection. 

You also make it very clear that the Chinese are corrupt but there are certain UGL's what do manufacturer quality hgh but we dont have the connections for the source and we only have access to the fake hgh sources. Can you see why I struggle to believe alot of what you say when your sat in the heart of this corrupt counterfeit country in a lab what can make these generics and your saying your unbiased especially when you say we don't have the access to the proper sources, I guess only you do. Even in your own words the Chinese and the China hgh market shouldn't be trusted so I find your post rather suspect at trying to direct members to you and certain brands yet the clear outcome of all of this is that the generic UGL market isn't to be trusted especially when we get the licensed labs like Ankbio selling fakes and underdosed hgh what on earth do we expect from the UGL's. Please don't take this as a personal attack because its not its me trying to let you know how you come across.

I know your going to come back how your lab doesnt touch hgh and you have no connection with UGL's but the facts are your sat in a lab in China what as the facilities to produce fake hgh or may well be a UGL what is pumping this shite out and when I see you only post in the brewing sections and hgh it also add's weight to making your influence look suspect. If you was into bodybuilding or worked out at all for anything you would post in other sections except the science ones but you don't and I find it harder and harder to take anything you say regarding certain brands in China as correct.

----------


## Sheven

> You have given some very valuable advice and insight into the science of hgh throughout this thread and for some you have blinded them with science but I do feel your not totally impartial and try to infulence a certain direction towards some of the generic brands from China and this is what I struggle with when I see you post. 
> 
> My reasoning behind this and what many people probably don't know anyway is your sat in a lab in China what manufacturers between other things HCG , Heparin and you also have available raw material to produce hgh or probably the chemicals to produce what many believe to be HGH. By your own words we shouldnt trust the labs in China or the Chinese yet you work in one and work for them, so when you start claiming certain generics have had good lab reports and there are some UGL's what do produce good quality hgh I get the impression your trying to influence the members with certain brands because you may be connected to them either work wise or have some personal connection. 
> 
> You also make it very clear that the Chinese are corrupt but there are certain UGL's what do manufacturer quality hgh but we dont have the connections for the source and we only have access to the fake hgh sources. Can you see why I struggle to believe alot of what you say when your sat in the heart of this corrupt counterfeit country in a lab what can make these generics and your saying your unbiased especially when you say we don't have the access to the proper sources, I guess only you do. Even in your own words the Chinese and the China hgh market shouldn't be trusted so I find your post rather suspect at trying to direct members to you and certain brands yet the clear outcome of all of this is that the generic UGL market isn't to be trusted especially when we get the licensed labs like Ankbio selling fakes and underdosed hgh what on earth do we expect from the UGL's. Please don't take this as a personal attack because its not its me trying to let you know how you come across.
> 
> I know your going to come back how your lab doesnt touch hgh and you have no connection with UGL's but the facts are your sat in a lab in China what as the facilities to produce fake hgh or may well be a UGL what is pumping this shite out and when I see you only post in the brewing sections and hgh it also add's weight to making your influence look suspect. If you was into bodybuilding or worked out at all for anything you would post in other sections except the science ones but you don't and I find it harder and harder to take anything you say regarding certain brands in China as correct.


You are right and i have confirmed that before, i agree China is a huge and corrupt country and they have some doggy business ethics which i don't trust at all. But what you fail to understand is that even all this is true, its still a HUGE player in the pharmaceutical field and its such a giant that it cannot be ignored or generalized that its completely corrupt and useless. I'd say unfortunately for the western world, China has easily become the #1 pharmaceutical supplier of the world and it would be totally wrong to name it a shit-hole from where just poison and fake stuff is coming out. A big part of the goods out of there are junk but after all if we live in a western country its a high chance that our own country biggest trade partner is China and most of the stuff we eat or ware come in a form or other from there.

As for me "promoting" certain brands, i really don't think i ever supported any brand except GenSci which i personally trust from the days before the Olympics. The other brands that i know in China that have a license (Ankebio and Hygene Zhongshan) i've said it openly that are sketchy businesses and are a shame for the chinese bio-pharma field. Its true that i've seen good Riptropin lab tests posted by RonnyT (old dutchbodybuilder) that tested high in hgh amount, anyone can find that info on Google but i also said Riptropin is ran by shady Wang from Hygene Zhongshan and i wouldn't use that crap not even on an animal, ever since even if it tested high in somatropin concentration the fact that it gives massive water retention its a clear sign it contains also other substances (thing that i've outlined few posts back). So i really didn't show my support for any product, you've got this wrong, if you could point me to the posts you refer i'd be glad to reformulate if its the case.

Regarding the sourcing of good hgh being just at my accessibility, honestly i think most of you guys could get legit hgh and at least in the last years there have been tons of good hgh on the market. Since 2011 i do believe the quality of the products dropped ever since the forum boards got bigger and the demand for very cheap hgh increased. Before 2010 you could get blue top that topped 95% purity and very low dimmer (around 1%). Dr. Lin hyge i do believe was very legit as well (not that you could find it anymore). Even now the sources for the good hgh remained the same but it might be the case that few of them switched to selling shit stuff in the attempt to keep competitive. I've bought hgh directly from China from Getropin in 2007 and it was top quality, i bought the same brand last year (although this time was offering also taitropin, kigtropin and roxtropin) and it was pure junk (and the price 2 times lower).

Later edit: by the way, all the information i write about is available also on google, i totally avoid giving inside information or info i got from private information sources, just because i'd personally never trust anyone talking from "secret" sources, so it would be stupid of me to use this type of source. For example the United Cell you can find in most CIS countries public medicine auctions (Moldova, for example, its available online).

----------


## Xtralarg

> Correct, but the fact that it was tested by customs lab and proven to be hgh does.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


Have you got a letter stating that it was tested in a lab by your government? It would be very nice if you have and you could scan and post it then pm me your source. Finding real gh is like finding black gold!

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## marcus300

^^ Again I find anything you say hard to believe when your sat in one of those labs in the biggest corrupt counterfeit country in the world and I agree they are a huge player in the counterfeit medicine market

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## swithuk

> Correct, but the fact that it was tested by customs lab and proven to be hgh does.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


it would be huge to find out if they actually tested for g.h . is there any way you can confirm this ?
and what brand of g.h is this ?
thanks

----------


## Sheven

> ^^ Again I find anything you say hard to believe when your sat in one of those labs in the biggest corrupt counterfeit country in the world and I agree they are a huge player in the counterfeit medicine market


Now that you understand my reasoning behind my post (some dark commercial interest) i'd be really curious to know your reasoning, are you really really convinced about what you say about China or are you just trying to prevent people trying to get stuff out of there, just because you got stung by them and you think is safer for the rest of people not to go your path ? Because i totally miss your reasoning, one time you say GenSci is OK, next thing you say China is a huge counterfeiting market and they poison their own children ... i'm starting to believe you fell for your stock broker advices and bought stocks at Pfizer and GSK  :Big Grin:   :Big Grin:   :Big Grin:

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## Edwin23q

> Are you sure they got it tested or just read on the box or the cap and concluded is HGH ? Especially since it came from Ukraine (most likely Jintropin) and they come in their boxes. 
> 
> On a side note, i'd be curious how customs do conclude after a test that what the vials contain is HGH since the MS is never to the exact value of kDa and obviously they don't have standing by references of somatropin CRS.


Ok lets end the presumptions and talk some facts. They came in blank vials as getting them sent labeled is dumb. The boxes were blank and at times off a different product. I hope you can appreciate that I can't go into other facts and details on this. As far as anyone's concerned I could have had vials with Cocain or heroin coming in. Customs would have had no idea what was in there.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

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## Sheven

> Ok lets end the presumptions and talk some facts. They came in blank vials as getting them sent labeled is dumb. The boxes were blank and at times off a different product. I hope you can appreciate that I can't go into other facts and details on this. As far as anyone's concerned I could have had vials with Cocain or heroin coming in. Customs would have had no idea what was in there.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


So you bought unlabeled generics from Ukraine?

----------


## Edwin23q

I'll scan and post the letter in 12 hours when I'm home from work. The letter clearly states the contents tested positive for human growth hormone somatrophin igf1. Also stated each vial contained 12iu's.
I won't disclose the brand but it's not Chinese shit that's for sure.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

----------


## marcus300

> Now that you understand my reasoning behind my post (some dark commercial interest) i'd be really curious to know your reasoning, are you really really convinced about what you say about China or are you just trying to prevent people trying to get stuff out of there, just because you got stung by them and you think is safer for the rest of people not to go your path ? Because i totally miss your reasoning, one time you say GenSci is OK, next thing you say China is a huge counterfeiting market and they poison their own children ... i'm starting to believe you fell for your stock broker advices and bought stocks at Pfizer and GSK


My reasoning still stands, you didnt say anything what convinced me otherwise lol

I bought fakes yes of course I did but thats doesnt bother me why should it, its part of the game we are in especially when your dealing with such a corrupt country.I'm staff here and I do my best to keep the memebrs informed without any influence towards any make but give them my experience and feedback what I recieve and to be honest this thread does it all because its clear all the way through members do have major concerns with Chinese HGH.

Now I know I shouldn't trust anything you say, why would I not want people to buy real hgh lol I've been one of the members here who continues to try and get across what the Chinese are doing with their hgh. When Ive got good quality and ive had good feedback ive told members about it and as soon as something turns bad like Ankbio I was the first one to tell everyone here.

Facts are your sat in a lab in China what produces these types of hormones and you want me to think your not bias when your posts tell me otherwise. You dont post anywhere else except in the brewing and hgh sections, if you was into the sport you would post elsewhere because its an interest for you but you dont and your only interest is in the powders and hgh and thats your business in China. 

Your making it even more obvious now and not only to me  :Wink:

----------


## Edwin23q

> So you bought unlabeled generics from Ukraine?


Mate it doesn't look like your getting my point so I won't bother anymore.
Your right and I'm wrong, go rest easy now.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

----------


## Sheven

> My reasoning still stands, you didnt say anything what convinced me otherwise lol
> 
> I bought fakes yes of course I did but thats doesnt bother me why should it, its part of the game we are in especially when your dealing with such a corrupt country.I'm staff here and I do my best to keep the memebrs informed without any influence towards any make but give them my experience and feedback what I recieve and to be honest this thread does it all because its clear all the way through members do have major concerns with Chinese HGH.
> 
> Now I know I shouldn't trust anything you say, why would I not want people to buy real hgh lol I've been one of the members here who continues to try and get across what the Chinese are doing with their hgh. When Ive got good quality and ive had good feedback ive told members about it and as soon as something turns bad like Ankbio I was the first one to tell everyone here.
> 
> Facts are your sat in a lab in China what produces these types of hormones and you want me to think your not bias when your posts tell me otherwise. You dont post anywhere else except in the brewing and hgh sections, if you was into the sport you would post elsewhere because its an interest for you but you dont and your only interest is in the powders and hgh and thats your business in China. 
> 
> Your making it even more obvious now and not only to me


I don't know where you made it up the lab i work in makes anything related with hgh, because it doesn't. Doesn't even have the needed capacity because it just buys raw material from outside sources and packs it inside. Second, truth is you can't really argue against me (because i post general known google accessible truths, i don't just make up what i say), you just say "you're obviously biased" and that's all you repeat. Maybe it makes sense for some guys, i'm certain many many guys aren't convinced at all even if its true. After all, nobody can buy anything from me on this forum and i haven't promoted any product. So what's my purpose what's my point? How can i ever make a profit if i really have an dubious reason here? Its something totally illogical what you claim, i can't understand. Just the fact that i'm showing the other side of the coin which is far more realistic that your claims that all shit out of China is junk, makes you think i'm into pushing chinese stuff. 

If we'd be into looking for ulterior reasons i'd say you're payed by BIG PHARMA from the USA to push into oblivion chinese pharmaceuticals and to praise the USA human grade somatropin that makes billions for those greedy CEO's. But i ain't saying that just because it would sound insane, exactly like you sound when you say i'm promoting chinese generics. **** generics don't buy anything not tested and from untruthful source, i even proposed to everybody here to do 3rd party independent testing and none of the "Staff" even got interested. So where is all the concern for the members, why nobody actually cares in testing "the shit" out of China? Why all the "anti-generics" campaign is based on "personal experience" and some claims you got shit from Ankebio ? 

I can certainly guarantee thousands of members off this board used in their lifetime high quality hgh coming out of China and the fact that nobody is even interested in analyzing them and the whole argument evolves around "you are biased" and "china is shit" makes me think that there are really some shady shady things going on, other way i couldn't possibly understand all this "i refuse to argue, you are biased" type of acting. I post common sense information, china is a huge pharma player, but it seems its something i made up over night in my attempt to promote the chinese pharma industry. Definitely strange!!!!!!!

By the way, arguing against an idea by personally attacking the counterpart is ... unrealistic and dubious.

----------


## Sheven

> Mate it doesn't look like your getting my point so I won't bother anymore.
> Your right and I'm wrong, go rest easy now.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


Are you for real ? I'm trying to find out how the customs said you got "hgh" in those vials, you don't actually think they did a Mass Spectrophotometry that costs 400$ just to prove you got hgh right? Customs never spend big bucks especially for small parcels to find out if some Joe Doe wants to get highly illegal growth hormone over the customs. They usually read the label or the top and conclude without any scientific test. But it seems you're the type of guy that needs to feel assured that his gear was good so go on believing the customs performed a complicated hgh test and your gear was top notch, too bad it got seized. NURSEEEEEEEE! Bring his medicineeeeeee!

----------


## marcus300

> I don't know where you made it up the lab i work in makes anything related with hgh, because it doesn't. Doesn't even have the needed capacity because it just buys raw material from outside sources and packs it inside. Second, truth is you can't really argue against me (because i post general known google accessible truths, i don't just make up what i say), you just say "you're obviously biased" and that's all you repeat. Maybe it makes sense for some guys, i'm certain many many guys aren't convinced at all even if its true. After all, nobody can buy anything from me on this forum and i haven't promoted any product. So what's my purpose what's my point? How can i ever make a profit if i really have an dubious reason here? Its something totally illogical what you claim, i can't understand. Just the fact that i'm showing the other side of the coin which is far more realistic that your claims that all shit out of China is junk, makes you think i'm into pushing chinese stuff. 
> 
> If we'd be into looking for ulterior reasons i'd say you're payed by BIG PHARMA from the USA to push into oblivion chinese pharmaceuticals and to praise the USA human grade somatropin that makes billions for those greedy CEO's. But i ain't saying that just because it would sound insane, exactly like you sound when you say i'm promoting chinese generics. **** generics don't buy anything not tested and from untruthful source, i even proposed to everybody here to do 3rd party independent testing and none of the "Staff" even got interested. So where is all the concern for the members, why nobody actually cares in testing "the shit" out of China? Why all the "anti-generics" campaign is based on "personal experience" and some claims you got shit from Ankebio ? 
> 
> I can certainly guarantee thousands of members off this board used in their lifetime high quality hgh coming out of China and the fact that nobody is even interested in analyzing them and the whole argument evolves around "you are biased" and "china is shit" makes me think that there are really some shady shady things going on, other way i couldn't possibly understand all this "i refuse to argue, you are biased" type of acting. I post common sense information, china is a huge pharma player, but it seems its something i made up over night in my attempt to promote the chinese pharma industry. Definitely strange!!!!!!!


I have the pm you sent me saying exactly what your lab does and what your capable of doing in it so please lol.  :Smilie: 

You also say some really odd things lol, I get paid from some USA pharma lol and you want me to believe what you say lol

Underneath your posts there is a certain influence and when your sat in a lab in China making these chemicals I find it hard to trust anything you say, its not only me either ive had a few pm's very recently so all our judgement must be wrong then.

Don't let it bother you I'm just saying  :Smilie:

----------


## Edwin23q

> Are you for real ? I'm trying to find out how the customs said you got "hgh" in those vials, you don't actually think they did a Mass Spectrophotometry that costs 400$ just to prove you got hgh right? Customs never spend big bucks especially for small parcels to find out if some Joe Doe wants to get highly illegal growth hormone over the customs. They usually read the label or the top and conclude without any scientific test. But it seems you're the type of guy that needs to feel assured that his gear was good so go on believing the customs performed a complicated hgh test and your gear was top notch, too bad it got seized. NURSEEEEEEEE! Bring his medicineeeeeee!


As per my previous post , you are 100% correct.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

----------


## Sheven

> I have the pm you sent me saying exactly what your lab does and what your capable of doing in it so please lol. 
> 
> You also say some really odd things lol, I get paid from some USA pharma lol and you want me to believe what you say lol
> 
> Underneath your posts there is a certain influence and when your sat in a lab in China making these chemicals I find it hard to trust anything you say, its not only me either ive had a few pm's very recently so all our judgement must be wrong then.
> 
> Don't let it bother you I'm just saying


Bro i was talking about hcg and heparin in my PM. you can feel free to post it in the public the PM i don't mind at all. i certainly didn't reply your PM saying i work in a hgh factory didnt i? Since when you draw the conclusion hcg and heparin have anything to do with hgh or steroid powders? Hcg comes from yantai beifang and the heparin from Shenzhen Hepalink. there are no hgh capabilities what so ever. Its not cool you try to make me look like i work in a hgh factory, although i can openly say i'd be more than glad that to be true.

i'm really not bothered by your insinuations especially since they are not true, its just a little bit frustrating that i'm trying to post real information and argue it clearly and you're just counter-arguing everything with "your biased, i dont believe you".

----------


## marcus300

> Bro i was talking about hcg and heparin in my PM. you can feel free to post it in the public the PM i don't mind at all. i certainly didn't reply your PM saying i work in a hgh factory didnt i? Since when you draw the conclusion hcg and heparin have anything to do with hgh or steroid powders? Hcg comes from yantai beifang and the heparin from Shenzhen Hepalink. there are no hgh capabilities what so ever. Its not cool you try to make me look like i work in a hgh factory, although i can openly say i'd be more than glad that to be true.
> 
> i'm really not bothered by your insinuations especially since they are not true, its just a little bit frustrating that i'm trying to post real information and argue it clearly and you're just counter-arguing everything with "your biased, i dont believe you".


Ok thats all I needed to get permission to post your pm, and you say your factory doesnt have the capabilities what so ever but in your pm to me you said " you can get hold of high purity raw material hgh which I can freeze dry in the factory and you also stated you have tried this, yet now your factory doesnt have the capabilities what so ever....

Ive also got more pm's  :Smilie: 




> i'm working in china currently and can get hold of high purity raw material hgh which i can freeze-dry in the factory i work. i work in a medium sized factory that manufacturers between other things HCG and heparin. i tried it before and it worked incredible well for the somatropin.



If your not bother and I wont ever change my mind about trusting you, nothing more to say  :Smilie:

----------


## Sheven

> Ok thats all I needed to get permission to post your pm, and you say your factory doesnt have the capabilities what so ever but in your pm to me you said " you can get hold of high purity raw material hgh which I can freeze dry in the factory and you also stated you have tried this, yet now your factory doesnt have the capabilities what so ever....
> 
> Ive also got more pm's 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If your not bother and I wont ever change my mind about trusting you, nothing more to say


Yeah bro but i was always open about that. I can get the raw material hgh powder any day of the week and you could to, Ankebio even sells it on tradekey LOL! The HGH is frozen exactly the same way HCG is. But you fail to understand that doesn't mean making any hgh, is just buying the raw material and packing it in vials. I just have access to the freeze dryer, for making hgh you need a series of expensive (1.5mil at least) equipment. So what's your point? If you monitor daily my PM's and i don't sell anything, its clear to anyone i don't promote any brand what so ever, why are you even repeating over and over again i'm biased? My only clear direction is "china has a lot of good pharma stuff" and you clearly have a problem with that. I actually know what the problem is, and i just realized it today. I really don't want to mess up your racket and it was foolish for me to fall for the "members benefit" scheme. 

You want to make me look biased but you didn't expect me to be so open about it, truth is i don't sell and promote anything here on the board but i certainly mess someones own racket that does some kind of this activity, am i right ? China stuff is crap, human grade is the only way to go, hold on a second...to protect the sheep, you gotta catch the wolf ... and it takes a wolf to catch a wolf. I'm really sorry i interfered with your work here i really didn't know something like this was going on, honestly i respect mods on all boards and i can totally understand each board has its own show, you could just have sent me a PM telling me to shut up and i would have stopped posting here, i'm really not into messing anyones racket especially since its your board. I'm not gonna continue my idea that there is still hope in China but i suggest in the future to find more realistic arguments because honestly anyone with a circumspect attitude can smell something strange in here...and constantly avoiding any realistic argumentation and systematically personal attacking is a total cover blowing strategy.

----------


## marcus300

> Yeah bro but i was always open about that. I can get the raw material hgh powder any day of the week and you could to, Ankebio even sells it on tradekey LOL! The HGH is frozen exactly the same way HCG is. But you fail to understand that doesn't mean making any hgh, is just buying the raw material and packing it in vials. I just have access to the freeze dryer, for making hgh you need a series of expensive (1.5mil at least) equipment. So what's your point? If you monitor daily my PM's and i don't sell anything, its clear to anyone i don't promote any brand what so ever, why are you even repeating over and over again i'm biased? My only clear direction is "china has a lot of good pharma stuff" and you clearly have a problem with that. I actually know what the problem is, and i just realized it today. I really don't want to mess up your racket and it was foolish for me to fall for the "members benefit" scheme. 
> 
> You want to make me look biased but you didn't expect me to be so open about it, truth is i don't sell and promote anything here on the board but i certainly mess someones own racket that does some kind of this activity, am i right ? China stuff is crap, human grade is the only way to go, hold on a second...to protect the sheep, you gotta catch the wolf ... and it takes a wolf to catch a wolf. I'm really sorry i interfered with your work here i really didn't know something like this was going on, honestly i respect mods on all boards and i can totally understand each board has its own show, you could just have sent me a PM telling me to shut up and i would have stopped posting here, i'm really not into messing anyones racket especially since its your board. I'm not gonna continue my idea that there is still hope in China but i suggest in the future to find more realistic arguments because honestly anyone with a circumspect attitude can smell something strange in here...and constantly avoiding any realistic argumentation and systematically personal attacking is a total cover blowing strategy.


You did say your factory doesnt have the capabilities *what so ever* now its a bit different lol.. ohh is this a play on words thing  :Smilie: 

I've also got other pm's you sent to other people but i'll save you the embarrassment because I'm not posting them here due to the memebrs want to remain anonymous but suppose I can edit their name out...

Like ive said on my first post tonight, I dont trust anything you say because your sat in a lab in China and you try to influence the direction of the members. I know what your capable of doing because you have told many members here and I really didnt mean to upset you at all just giving you my view on your posts. 

Lets leave this now and get the thread back on track, I didnt want to go off track like this so if you have anything else to say pm me

Thank you  :Smilie: 


ps, pull yourself together now I sell hgh for some pharma lol lol

----------


## Sheven

> You did say your factory doesnt have the capabilities *what so ever* now its a bit different lol.. ohh is this a play on words thing 
> 
> I've also got other pm's you sent to other people but i'll save you the embarrassment because I'm not posting them here due to the memebrs want to remain anonymous but suppose I can edit their name out...
> 
> Like ive said on my first post tonight, I dont trust anything you say because your sat in a lab in China and you try to influence the direction of the members. I know what your capable of doing because you have told many members here and I really didnt mean to upset you at all just giving you my view on your posts. 
> 
> Lets leave this now and get the thread back on track, I didnt want to go off track like this so if you have anything else to say pm me
> 
> Thank you


Do you know the difference between making hgh and packing it? Having a freeze dryer isn't making hgh, a freeze dryer cost 15.000$ i guess you can make the difference between that and a facility able to manufacture hgh right?

About the PM's not showing, its again your tactic to discredit me. But i totally don't care ever since I POST JUST FOR FUN.

And if the fun just started let me tell you my theory, i just made it up when i was in the bathroom:

*You are having interest in human grade hgh, and you're discrediting the whole chinese generic industry. You know GenSci doesn't sell directly so you vouch for them because it makes you look more credible. But you attack Ankebio. Why would you do that? Because Ankebio is affecting your business, they are selling to anyone contacting them so you made up all that story about their Ansomone being fake. You never posted any real lab tests backing up your claims was just your word against them. Why would we trust you ? Just because you're a mod and all you say is "its true because i say it is" doesn't make it true. I was actually taking what you said for granted but since today you 100% prove me you have interest in somekind of products, i'm almost sure this Ankebio story was all made up.*

You can't argue anything i say, i was wondering why why, why would marcus ever be so stubborn and never even agree that China has some decent pharma, it all came clear to me today, you're having interests my brother. Its no problem like i said, feel free to run your racket, i can guarantee you didn't lost any business against me because i turned away any purchase proposition, you know why ? Because my hole intention and role on this board was to challenge the status quo, i knew this day would come that i'd be personally attacked, i knew you monitor my PM's and that's the very reason i never helped you get HGH, you say now you solicited me to purchase "tens of thousands of IU's" just to test me? I think you're a big time dealer and are annoyed i'm raising questions around the community.

Oh crap marcus, this could all have been avoided if you just didn't try to call me out without a reason, i'd also have agreed to back you up regarding chinese generics being crap, i actually played in your game of calling out Ankebio as shit, even though honestly, they are OK my brother, they make decent hgh, their only fault is they are selling it to openly and honestly, they are ruining the business also for me.  :Frown:  . Ban ban ban.

----------


## marcus300

> Do you know the difference between making hgh and packing it? Having a freeze dryer isn't making hgh, a freeze dryer cost 15.000$ i guess you can make the difference between that and a facility able to manufacture hgh right?
> 
> About the PM's not showing, its again your tactic to discredit me. But i totally don't care ever since I POST JUST FOR FUN.
> 
> And if the fun just started let me tell you my theory, i just made it up when i was in the bathroom:
> 
> *You are having interest in human grade hgh, and you're discrediting the whole chinese generic industry. You know GenSci doesn't sell directly so you vouch for them because it makes you look more credible. But you attack Ankebio. Why would you do that? Because Ankebio is affecting your business, they are selling to anyone contacting them so you made up all that story about their Ansomone being fake. You never posted any real lab tests backing up your claims was just your word against them. Why would we trust you ? Just because you're a mod and all you say is "its true because i say it is" doesn't make it true. I was actually taking what you said for granted but since today you 100% prove me you have interest in somekind of products, i'm almost sure this Ankebio story was all made up.*
> 
> You can't argue anything i say, i was wondering why why, why would marcus ever be so stubborn and never even agree that China has some decent pharma, it all came clear to me today, you're having interests my brother. Its no problem like i said, feel free to run your racket, i can guarantee you didn't lost any business against me because i turned away any purchase proposition, you know why ? Because my hole intention and role on this board was to challenge the status quo, i knew this day would come that i'd be personally attacked, i knew you monitor my PM's and that's the very reason i never helped you get HGH, you say now you solicited me to purchase "tens of thousands of IU's" just to test me? I think you're a big time dealer and are annoyed i'm raising questions around the community.
> ...


Stop trying to divert the attention, I don't sell or have any connection to any pharm hgh your making yourself look worse. lol

The reason why I got in contact with you via pm was because members told me you was up to something, so I opened you up via pm no need to get upset about that. Thats the truth and me being staff here try and keep this board safe and secure from scammer's etc. I knew you wouldnt opnely tell me anything but you told me alot and YOU also told other people who you thought you could trust what your capable of doing  :Wink: 

We both know what's inside the pm's you have sent to people dont we  :Smilie:   :Smilie:  thats why your getting stressed and upset

If you have anything else to say do it through pm and get this thread back on track

----------


## Sheven

Let the thread like that, lets see who is credible and let the members decide for themselves. You are actually making me publicity however i don't need it, yes i can pack any freeze-dry-able powder i work on a Millrock lyo, anyone can get hgh raw material from Ankebio (but its shit hgh because marcus said so). Most of the members buy steroid powders from china same way they can buy hgh raw material. Is the simple truth however you want to make it look.

By the way, if you say i am offering stuff to members etc, why did i even got promoted recently to Knowledgeble member, why didn't just got banned? Or is this board promoting PM sellers? What the F*uk i totally dont understand. Fishy fishy fishy.

OUT. *radiosound*

PS: if you say you have no connection with pharm grade hgh, why do you say you used it all your life and you know how it works? You wouldn't be some kind of millionaire right? Fishy fishy, you see two can play this game, difference i really smell something at you and you're just pulling your luck with me because i come and go on this forum i don't depend on it, however i think you're making a living here. Marcus, in other life, we can be best friends, i love your Makiavelic schems, just please work on the argumentation part, its always good to be prepared with sciencey sounding stuff, i also make up most of things i say, but they sound credible am i right??? MALDI-MS, SDS-PAGE, who the hell even knows what that means but i keep repeating it to sound smart...it works bro!!!

----------


## marcus300

> Let the thread like that, lets see who is credible and let the members decide for themselves. You are actually making me publicity however i don't need it, yes i can pack any freeze-dry-able powder i work on a Millrock lyo, anyone can get hgh raw material from Ankebio (but its shit hgh because marcus said so). Most of the members buy steroid powders from china same way they can buy hgh raw material. Is the simple truth however you want to make it look.
> 
> By the way, if you say i am offering stuff to members etc, why did i even got promoted recently to Knowledgeble member, why didn't just got banned? Or is this board promoting PM sellers? What the F*uk i totally dont understand. Fishy fishy fishy.
> 
> OUT. *radiosound*


We both know what you said in PM to members  :Wink: 

lets stop with your diversion tactics, I can see your getting upset.,

3rd time - if you have anything else to say to me do it through pm, if you dont leave let it be

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## >Good Luck<

I don't know which HGH to buy now... I can't trust anyone! i cant trust anything...I'm so confused!!! LMFAO

----------


## gixxerboy1

> Correct, but the fact that it was tested by customs lab and proven to be hgh does.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


Customs,doesn't spend the money ans send our samples for testing.

----------


## gixxerboy1

> Ok lets end the presumptions and talk some facts. They came in blank vials as getting them sent labeled is dumb. The boxes were blank and at times off a different product. I hope you can appreciate that I can't go into other facts and details on this. As far as anyone's concerned I could have had vials with Cocain or heroin coming in. Customs would have had no idea what was in there.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


Ik my boy works for customd in nyc. Your vials were not tested.

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## EasyDoesIt

> Let the thread like that, lets see who is credible and let the members decide for themselves. You are actually making me publicity however i don't need it, yes i can pack any freeze-dry-able powder i work on a Millrock lyo, anyone can get hgh raw material from Ankebio (but its shit hgh because marcus said so). Most of the members buy steroid powders from china same way they can buy hgh raw material. Is the simple truth however you want to make it look.
> 
> By the way, if you say i am offering stuff to members etc, why did i even got promoted recently to Knowledgeble member, why didn't just got banned? Or is this board promoting PM sellers? What the F*uk i totally dont understand. Fishy fishy fishy.
> 
> OUT. *radiosound*
> 
> PS: if you say you have no connection with pharm grade hgh, why do you say you used it all your life and you know how it works? You wouldn't be some kind of millionaire right? Fishy fishy, you see two can play this game, difference i really smell something at you and you're just pulling your luck with me because i come and go on this forum i don't depend on it, however i think you're making a living here. Marcus, in other life, we can be best friends, i love your Makiavelic schems, just please work on the argumentation part, its always good to be prepared with sciencey sounding stuff, i also make up most of things i say, but they sound credible am i right??? MALDI-MS, SDS-PAGE, who the hell even knows what that means but i keep repeating it to sound smart...it works bro!!!


i have not been using pharm grade all my life but i know how it works inside me. I know how the generics work and even when i thought i was getting quality pharm grade Chinese the difference when i got real non Chinese was night and day, so i don't consider myself being fishy, i am not a moderator just a member attempting to show my experience. I just want to express the difference to people who may not know. Do you feel ankiebio did sell fakes? Even if it were sales people inside the company and they were selling from ankie, do you think fakes came from there company via there office and a facility owned by them? Just looking for your call on this. I thought past posts you thought that ankie was selling fakes, but i may be wrong. Jus looking to see myself what you think.

----------


## Sheven

> i have not been using pharm grade all my life but i know how it works inside me. I know how the generics work and even when i thought i was getting quality pharm grade Chinese the difference when i got real non Chinese was night and day, so i don't consider myself being fishy, i am not a moderator just a member attempting to show my experience. I just want to express the difference to people who may not know. Do you feel ankiebio did sell fakes? Even if it were sales people inside the company and they were selling from ankie, do you think fakes came from there company via there office and a facility owned by them? Just looking for your call on this. I thought past posts you thought that ankie was selling fakes, but i may be wrong. Jus looking to see myself what you think.


Ankebio has a stupid type of marketing/sales team. They go on b2b websites and sell their stuff like its a protein supplement not a RX pharmaceutical product. In my opinion that makes them look childish and desperate market seekers and also opens them to all sorts of risks. But i never tested ankebio neither i heard bad reviews except what marcus said, i was taking what marcus300 said for granted, if a big-time well respected mod said Ankebio is shit, it must be right? I feel stupid now for taking this information for granted... i actually don't know if they really ever sold fakes, i know for fact many guys on this forum PM me saying their Ansomone was top notch and never got scammed, everyone can draw their own conclusion.

----------


## alex18

> Ik my boy works for customd in nyc. Your vials were not tested.


To be fair he's in Australia .....could be different rules to NYC

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Ankebio has a stupid type of marketing/sales team. They go on b2b websites and sell their stuff like its a protein supplement not a RX pharmaceutical product. In my opinion that makes them look childish and desperate market seekers and also opens them to all sorts of risks. But i never tested ankebio neither i heard bad reviews except what marcus said, i was taking what marcus300 said for granted, if a big-time well respected mod said Ankebio is shit, it must be right? I feel stupid now for taking this information for granted... i actually don't know if they really ever sold fakes, i know for fact many guys on this forum PM me saying their Ansomone was top notch and never got scammed, everyone can draw their own conclusion.


Ronnie Rowland had fakes. If they are selectively scamming, that is still a risk. Also, if they are selling on those type of websites that is pretty much what the scammers do. I could not see top notch pharmaceutical companies listing there products on those type of sites. How long has it been that they were selling on B2B Sites? I am in U.S. and have only bought products that have come off the scam sites, which of course did not know till more research especially from this thread. My jin's led me here. I was suspicious even with labels authenticating by my sides and lack of results. Later i found out that the jin site was not the site jin uses for there pharm-grade, but i certainly believe 100% it is run by them, that site would have been shut down immediately if jintropin (gensci) filed a complaint.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

So if Eli Lilly had a few corrupt members of its "sales team" who were selling expired bunk GH out the back door to bbers, would we say Eli Lilly are scammers and Humatrope is fake?

----------


## gixxerboy1

> To be fair he's in Australia .....could be different rules to NYC


Didnt realize

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> So if Eli Lilly had a few corrupt members of its "sales team" who were selling expired bunk GH out the back door to bbers, would we say Eli Lilly are scammers and Humatrope is fake?


I am guessing that was for me, but no quote.

Eli lilly probably does not sell on b2b sites and they also do not sell to outside reps without scripts and i think ankiebio does. Or even if ankiebio sales people are allowed to do there own thing, Eli Lilly would not allow that for very long. How long does anki continue to allow there sales people to continue while forums have been posting about it.

----------


## marcus300

> Ronnie Rowland had fakes. If they are selectively scamming, that is still a risk. Also, if they are selling on those type of websites that is pretty much what the scammers do. I could not see top notch pharmaceutical companies listing there products on those type of sites. How long has it been that they were selling on B2B Sites? I am in U.S. and have only bought products that have come off the scam sites, which of course did not know till more research especially from this thread. My jin's led me here. I was suspicious even with labels authenticating by my sides and lack of results. Later i found out that the jin site was not the site jin uses for there pharm-grade, but i certainly believe 100% it is run by them, that site would have been shut down immediately if jintropin (gensci) filed a complaint.


Ankbio sold top quality hgh and it was sold by the factory and the monies was deposited into their company account. They sold quality hgh for a few years I used rather alot of it and also some friends who are competitors had amazing results so I knew I could vouch for them. I even had sent to me a lab report what tested the purity which I am sure is posted here somewhere. Many members also bought Ankbio's hgh and were very satisfied and if anyone asked me about hgh I passed on who was top quality at this time, many staff and members used them and the quality of Ankbio hgh wasn't in question because of the results people were getting and the high amount of good feedback I was getting. 


I started to get friends and members questioning the quality of the latest batch of Ankbio, persoanlly I wasn't on them at the time when I first started to get this feedback so I made an order and found out myself that the latest hgh what was being sent out was different, then I got Ronnie Rowland who had used them for a long time get in touch with me and tell me he thinks his hgh is fake or underdosed. By the time I tried it I had many pm's giving me feedback that they thought Ankbio was selling fakes because the results and sides were not the same, I can vouch for this along side many of my friends. Once I knew this information I started to post it here along side with Ronnie R, I didnt want to post this information because I was one of the guys who recommend them but if Ankbio started to selectively scam customers by selling fakes or undedosed hgh I knew I had to get it out there for everyone to see and then they can make their own minds up. The whole thing exploded and others started to mention it and one guy from ProM had a blood test which showed normal levels which he posted in this thread somewhere.


I personally think they started to selcetively scam the underground market with either underdosed or fake hgh and I stop using them, many others also stopped using them because of the feedback what people were stated in this thread from guys who are experienced and used hgh. They may still send out quality hgh but when something like this happens you lose faith and thats what happened, up to you if you want to risk buying them again and if you do please post some feedback. Just be careful of certern members who try and divert your attention especially people who are sat in a lab in China and who may well have his fingers stuck in some UGL producing generic's, strange how things started to get hot under his collar when he found out I had his pm's and emails what he sent to memebrs  :Wink:

----------


## swithuk

> Didnt realize


even so i doubt theyd test it . or go beyond the standard drug testing

----------


## Edwin23q

> even so i doubt theyd test it . or go beyond the standard drug testing


Yeah not sure , wish I knew their methods. But as someone stated in previous post, even if they let them go, not sure with all the handling and the temperature if they will be any good. It's summer here in Aus and it's been stinking hot ?

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

----------


## swithuk

> Ankebio has a stupid type of marketing/sales team. They go on b2b websites and sell their stuff like its a protein supplement not a RX pharmaceutical product. In my opinion that makes them look childish and desperate market seekers and also opens them to all sorts of risks. But i never tested ankebio neither i heard bad reviews except what marcus said, i was taking what marcus300 said for granted, if a big-time well respected mod said Ankebio is shit, it must be right? I feel stupid now for taking this information for granted... i actually don't know if they really ever sold fakes, i know for fact many guys on this forum PM me saying their Ansomone was top notch and never got scammed, everyone can draw their own conclusion.


of all the g.h out there ansomone is the one id love to test

----------


## swithuk

> Yeah not sure , wish I knew their methods. But as someone stated in previous post, even if they let them go, not sure with all the handling and the temperature if they will be any good. It's summer here in Aus and it's been stinking hot ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


yes its a big worry . i know guys there who lay off buying during the summer for this very reason

----------


## lovbyts

> Ankbio sold top quality hgh and it was sold by the factory and the monies was deposited into their company account. They sold quality hgh for a few years I used rather alot of it and also some friends who are competitors had amazing results so I knew I could vouch for them. I even had sent to me a lab report what tested the purity which I am sure is posted here somewhere. Many members also bought Ankbio's hgh and were very satisfied and if anyone asked me about hgh I passed on who was top quality at this time, many staff and members used them and the quality of Ankbio hgh wasn't in question because of the results people were getting and the high amount of good feedback I was getting. 
> 
> 
> I started to get friends and members questioning the quality of the latest batch of Ankbio, persoanlly I wasn't on them at the time when I first started to get this feedback so I made an order and found out myself that the latest hgh what was being sent out was different, then I got Ronnie Rowland who had used them for a long time get in touch with me and tell me he thinks his hgh is fake or underdosed. By the time I tried it I had many pm's giving me feedback that they thought Ankbio was selling fakes because the results and sides were not the same, I can vouch for this along side many of my friends. Once I knew this information I started to post it here along side with Ronnie R, I didnt want to post this information because I was one of the guys who recommend them but if Ankbio started to selectively scam customers by selling fakes or undedosed hgh I knew I had to get it out there for everyone to see and then they can make their own minds up. The whole thing exploded and others started to mention it and one guy from ProM had a blood test which showed normal levels which he posted in this thread somewhere.
> 
> 
> I personally think they started to selcetively scam the underground market with either underdosed or fake hgh and I stop using them, many others also stopped using them because of the feedback what people were stated in this thread from guys who are experienced and used hgh. They may still send out quality hgh but when something like this happens you lose faith and thats what happened, up to you if you want to risk buying them again and if you do please post some feedback. Just be careful of certern members who try and divert your attention especially people who are sat in a lab in China and who may well have his fingers stuck in some UGL producing generic's, strange how things started to get hot under his collar when he found out I had his pm's and emails what he sent to memebrs


The above down fall of Ankibio can be blamed on me. I believe I am a walking human jinx when it comes to some things like this. They sold good HGH until the day I contacted them and placed an order. Such the same as most ever stock I have ever bough will be a long time thriving company until I decide to purchase a quantity of stock then they will be delisted within days. No joke. IF I bought Microsoft stock they would be bankrupt within 6 months I have no doubt. I dont think I have ever bought a product, appliance or investment that has ever worked out the 1st time. Most everything I have to return for one reason or another or such as a business it just goes under. lol

OK maybe it's not QUIT that bad but pretty damn close. Everything does work out its just I have to work 3x harder than I should to make it work.

----------


## lovbyts

> Yeah not sure , wish I knew their methods. But as someone stated in previous post, even if they let them go, not sure with all the handling and the temperature if they will be any good. It's summer here in Aus and it's been stinking hot ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


Yup that was me and it's a BIG concern. HGH has to be kept cool. A short time exposed to room temperature it will start to degrade. Just a couple of days it's worthless and all the enzymes are dead. I know the pain, trust me. I have/had a large batch in a fridge at relatives when a typhoon hit and they lost all power for weeks. I told them to just toss it out. There way no physical way to keep it cool and it was in the high 80s loiw 90s

----------


## swithuk

> The above down fall of Ankibio can be blamed on me. I believe I am a walking human jinx when it comes to some things like this. They sold good HGH until the day I contacted them and placed an order. Such the same as most ever stock I have ever bough will be a long time thriving company until I decide to purchase a quantity of stock then they will be delisted within days. No joke. IF I bought Microsoft stock they would be bankrupt within 6 months I have no doubt. I dont think I have ever bought a product, appliance or investment that has ever worked out the 1st time. Most everything I have to return for one reason or another or such as a business it just goes under. lol
> 
> OK maybe it's not QUIT that bad but pretty damn close. Everything does work out its just I have to work 3x harder than I should to make it work.


hahaha exactly the same as me . i think id just ordered my second box and discovered this forum and then the suspicions of ankie .... devastated

----------


## lovbyts

> hahaha exactly the same as me . i think id just ordered my second box and discovered this forum and then the suspicions of ankie .... devastated


Well laid plans turned to ashes. Been there many times. Seems no matter how much research you do, how careful you are it's still a crap shoot and the odds are in the favor of the house.

It really makes me believe there is a supreme being who watches over us and has a SICK sense of humor...  :Madd:

----------


## marcus300

> The above down fall of Ankibio can be blamed on me. I believe I am a walking human jinx when it comes to some things like this. They sold good HGH until the day I contacted them and placed an order. Such the same as most ever stock I have ever bough will be a long time thriving company until I decide to purchase a quantity of stock then they will be delisted within days. No joke. IF I bought Microsoft stock they would be bankrupt within 6 months I have no doubt. I dont think I have ever bought a product, appliance or investment that has ever worked out the 1st time. Most everything I have to return for one reason or another or such as a business it just goes under. lol
> 
> OK maybe it's not QUIT that bad but pretty damn close. Everything does work out its just I have to work 3x harder than I should to make it work.


LMFAO so its your fault  :Smilie: 

What was your ankbio hgh like, did you try it?

----------


## lovbyts

> LMFAO so its your fault 
> 
> What was your ankbio hgh like, did you try it?


It looks like this. It's was sitting inside of a refrigerator waiting for me here. Hmmmm no power for about a month now. Bye bye.

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## marcus300

> It looks like this. It's was sitting inside of a refrigerator waiting for me here. Hmmmm no power for about a month now. Bye bye.


haha ah right...Ive still get decent feedback from some members so I think they selectively scam or turn out underdosed and fakes together to confuse people...

----------


## swithuk

> It looks like this. It's was sitting inside of a refrigerator waiting for me here. Hmmmm no power for about a month now. Bye bye.


where the hell is that ? what happened ?

----------


## lovbyts

> where the hell is that ? what happened ?


Davo Philippines. San Antonio province after typhoon Paulblo on Dec 11th. Thats the in-laws house. It faired better than most. 1st typhoon to hit the area in over 100 years.

----------


## Far from massive

> Davo Philippines. San Antonio province after typhoon Paulblo on Dec 11th. Thats the in-laws house. It faired better than most. 1st typhoon to hit the area in over 100 years.


Damn when you first posted about being a jinx I was already feeling bad due to the powder fiasco, now I see this....I had always wondered about you screen-name. Much sympathy brotha, you (and family) have had a damn rough go of things. Hopefully you got your three strikes behind you now.

FFM

----------


## lovbyts

> Damn when you first posted about being a jinx I was already feeling bad due to the powder fiasco, now I see this....I had always wondered about you screen-name. Much sympathy brotha, you (and family) have had a damn rough go of things. Hopefully you got your three strikes behind you now.
> 
> FFM


Dont forget about the 2 deceased wives now. OK the 2nd one I was already divorced when she died so that doesn't really count.

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## swithuk

> Davo Philippines. San Antonio province after typhoon Paulblo on Dec 11th. Thats the in-laws house. It faired better than most. 1st typhoon to hit the area in over 100 years.


ok thats bad luck im sorry for them

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## swithuk

> Dont forget about the 2 deceased wives now. OK the 2nd one I was already divorced when she died so that doesn't really count.


a jinx or a serial killer ?

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## lovbyts

> a jinx or a serial killer ?


Never charged or suspected so No on the 2nd part. Still not sure about the 1st
I like to think/say they just couldn't live without me.

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## swithuk

> Never charged or suspected so No on the 2nd part. Still not sure about the 1st
> I like to think/say they just couldn't live without me.


hahaha beautiful.....

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## Xtralarg

> I'll scan and post the letter in 12 hours when I'm home from work. The letter clearly states the contents tested positive for human growth hormone somatrophin igf1. Also stated each vial contained 12iu's.
> I won't disclose the brand but it's not Chinese shit that's for sure.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


Can you scan and post the letter please.

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## Edwin23q

> Can you scan and post the letter please.


It's in a new thread I made.

Keep in mind blank vials, unrelated box.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

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## lovbyts

> It's in a new thread I made.
> 
> Keep in mind blank vials, unrelated box.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


I read your other post and saw your seizure letter. I understand your reasoning but I have to agree with some of the other people that the HGH conclusion is based more on experience or conclusion then it is actual testing. As said it would be very expensive for them to send it out and have it actually tested. I'm sure after you have seen hundreds of samples come through it's easy to tell what is what just by looking at it or at least give him a best guess scenario.

Honestly I am NOT trying to be a d*ck or rain on your parade but I am trying to use a little common sense logic. Hopefully you're right and what your source is sending you is legit.

----------


## Edwin23q

> I read your other post and saw your seizure letter. I understand your reasoning but I have to agree with some of the other people that the HGH conclusion is based more on experience or conclusion then it is actual testing. As said it would be very expensive for them to send it out and have it actually tested. I'm sure after you have seen hundreds of samples come through it's easy to tell what is what just by looking at it or at least give him a best guess scenario.
> 
> Honestly I am NOT trying to be a d*ck or rain on your parade but I am trying to use a little common sense logic. Hopefully you're right and what your source is sending you is legit.


Nah it's cool bro, I know where your coming from and I agree with your point.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

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## lovbyts

> Nah it's cool bro, I know where your coming from and I agree with your point.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


Cool. I know its really easy to sound like you/I am being a d*ck or always negative online but thats not the my intention.

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## marcus300

Freddie fireman- no fishing please. Post deleted.

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## Freddiefireman

Sorry marcus... i wasnt trying to fish. I am new to this forum and dont quite know the rules... so i apologize

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## ChuckEisenmench

There is also the concern of winter shipping. Where I am it gets below freezing often during the winter.

Chuck

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## Sheven

> There is also the concern of winter shipping. Where I am it gets below freezing often during the winter.
> 
> Chuck


So what? You can let gh at -5 and its top shape.

----------


## swithuk

yeah . isnt it the summer months that would be a problem ...?

----------


## ChuckEisenmench

OK-just thought I'd post a thought about below temp. destroying HGH. So it doesn't matter if it is stored below freezing?

Chuck

Hi Swithuk

----------


## Sheven

> OK-just thought I'd post a thought about below temp. destroying HGH. So it doesn't matter if it is stored below freezing?
> 
> Chuck
> 
> Hi Swithuk


Unless its liquid gh or reconstituted, you can freeze it without any problem. summer is when you should worry about temp.

----------


## Edwin23q

> Unless its liquid gh or reconstituted, you can freeze it without any problem. summer is when you should worry about temp.


Sheven, 
Does that mean if it's in powder form and I put it in the freezer that it will add to it's shelf life? That's is it won't expire as per the expiry date or would you not risk it?

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

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## ChuckEisenmench

> Unless its liquid gh or reconstituted, you can freeze it without any problem. summer is when you should worry about temp.


10-4

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## Sheven

> Sheven, 
> Does that mean if it's in powder form and I put it in the freezer that it will add to it's shelf life? That's is it won't expire as per the expiry date or would you not risk it?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


It will not add to shelf life but freezing wont destroy freeze-dryed hgh, after all has been freezed at -50 before you got it  :Big Grin:

----------


## Far from massive

Edwin,

Google freeze drying it will help you to understand the process.

----------


## testluva

I love my Ripps

----------


## Xtralarg

> Take a look at these generic blue tops. Notice the compression of the HGH is not that tight! When you look at a quality HGH the compound are compressed with high end quality vacuum sealer. The pucks are smaller and tighter. That will give you an indication of a high end quality manufacturing lab. The lesser grade stuff have weaker vacuum sealers and are not that compressed. The tighter the puck looks the better chance of a quality manufacturer lab. 
> 
> When you insert your syringe you will hear the vacuum seal release. The sound of a vacuum release gives one indication of a quality lab with expensive vacuum sealers.
> 
> This still doesn't prove it's real HGH but its a start.


They are just vials of sh1t. The colour of the tops is totally irrelevant, they are just tops that's all. If they had ran out of blue tops then they would of bought another colour, let's say green or yellow, and then they would call the crap in side green tops or yellow tops. We have had this debate 1000 times about these tops, when are people going to get the message? The chineese are laughing at whoever buys this rubbish, then they buy a range rover with your cash and laugh some more, in fact I bet they laugh all the time and so would you if you could sell your sh1t and p1ss for $1000's.

----------


## Sheven

> Take a look at these generic blue tops. Notice the compression of the HGH is not that tight! When you look at a quality HGH the compound are compressed with high end quality vacuum sealer. The pucks are smaller and tighter. That will give you an indication of a high end quality manufacturing lab. The lesser grade stuff have weaker vacuum sealers and are not that compressed. The tighter the puck looks the better chance of a quality manufacturer lab. 
> 
> When you insert your syringe you will hear the vacuum seal release. The sound of a vacuum release gives one indication of a quality lab with expensive vacuum sealers.
> 
> This still doesn't prove it's real HGH but its a start.


I dont know from where you got this information but from my experience what you just said is totally non-sense. The puck thickness and vacuum negative pressure inside the vial has nothing to do with the fact that the vacuum "sealer" is expensive or not, if its junk machine or top notch. It all has to do with the time and freezing diagram that is set by the operator, you can make super-tight and super negative pressure inside a vial with the cheapest lyo. There is no vacuum sealer in the production, the vacuum is caused by the vacuum pump that sucks all the air out of the lyo (freeze-dryer) so that the water can sublimate faster during the freezing part, as well lack of air is a better for preserving the freeze-dried material. So forget it, all this visual and optical analysis is bullshit, the best looking vials and best compressed puck can be pure mannitol. Doesn't matter the vial shape, top color, stopper color, puck size and look, this is like analyzing blood just by looking and smelling it then decide the patient can go home declaring him healthy meanwhile he has AIDS.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> They are just vials of sh1t. The colour of the tops is totally irrelevant, they are just tops that's all. If they had ran out of blue tops then they would of bought another colour, let's say green or yellow, and then they would call the crap in side green tops or yellow tops. We have had this debate 1000 times about these tops, when are people going to get the message? The chineese are laughing at whoever buys this rubbish, then they buy a range rover with your cash and laugh some more, in fact I bet they laugh all the time and so would you if you could sell your sh1t and p1ss for $1000's.


Yes i agree it's all generic junk. People still talking about the color of tops. I'm guessing that the color of tops was started by accident. All generic junk! Seems like it's going to take awhile for people to start saying GENERIC JUNK! At this point, if you have been reading this forum, genrerics should be common knowledge to be junk. No disrespect to the post, but this thread has been going on a long time and i think most of the debates and interest relates to counterfeit brands discovery.As the thread is named, "Chinese hGh concerns." That to a lot of us that means all Chinese hgh, not just genereics.

----------


## marcus300

> They are just vials of sh1t. The colour of the tops is totally irrelevant, they are just tops that's all. If they had ran out of blue tops then they would of bought another colour, let's say green or yellow, and then they would call the crap in side green tops or yellow tops. We have had this debate 1000 times about these tops, when are people going to get the message? The chineese are laughing at whoever buys this rubbish, then they buy a range rover with your cash and laugh some more, in fact I bet they laugh all the time and so would you if you could sell your sh1t and p1ss for $1000's.


Agreed ^^^  :Smilie:

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## human project

> They are just vials of sh1t. The colour of the tops is totally irrelevant, they are just tops that's all. If they had ran out of blue tops then they would of bought another colour, let's say green or yellow, and then they would call the crap in side green tops or yellow tops. We have had this debate 1000 times about these tops, when are people going to get the message? The chineese are laughing at whoever buys this rubbish, then they buy a range rover with your cash and laugh some more, in fact I bet they laugh all the time and so would you if you could sell your sh1t and p1ss for $1000's.


Well colors of tops do matter if the color is black.... Well black isn't a color is if???...

----------


## Xtralarg

> Well colors of tops do matter if the color is black.... Well black isn't a color is if???...


Can you explain what your point is please?

----------


## Edwin23q

> Well colors of tops do matter if the color is black.... Well black isn't a color is if???...


No idea what your on about but I can put rainbow colored caps on the vials, does that add to the purity and potency?
Let me know if that's what the market demands and I'll provide, lol



P.s no Pm's on source or products or you will be reported.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

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## lld

This has to be the longest thread I can every remember reading. Thanks for some great info and even a few laughs!

----------


## sitries

I dont agree that all chinese growth is rubbish. Iv had good results off hyge and currrently on ansamone on 2iu a day and getting sides!!!! Initially i didnt think the ansamone was that strong and did a week at 4iu a day but then sides kicked in and i lowered the dose - sides are still prevallent and im also feeling leaner.

----------


## Xtralarg

> I dont agree that all chinese growth is rubbish. Iv had good results off hyge and currrently on ansamone on 2iu a day and getting sides!!!! Initially i didnt think the ansamone was that strong and did a week at 4iu a day but then sides kicked in and i lowered the dose - sides are still prevallent and im also feeling leaner.


Have you read all of this thread because it sounds like you haven't! Anyway as long as you're happy, carry on.

----------


## cyounger100

> I dont agree that all chinese growth is rubbish. Iv had good results off hyge and currrently on ansamone on 2iu a day and getting sides!!!! Initially i didnt think the ansamone was that strong and did a week at 4iu a day but then sides kicked in and i lowered the dose - sides are still prevallent and im also feeling leaner.


well as long as you are getting sides generics must be the way too go for sure thanks lol

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> well as long as you are getting sides generics must be the way too go for sure thanks lol


Reminds me of some of the guys on other forums - started some new blue tops and I've gained 15lbs of water in a week and have CTS so bad I can't move my hand or wrist, this GH is strong as hell bro! Lmao.

----------


## swithuk

> I dont agree that all chinese growth is rubbish. Iv had good results off hyge and currrently on ansamone on 2iu a day and getting sides!!!! Initially i didnt think the ansamone was that strong and did a week at 4iu a day but then sides kicked in and i lowered the dose - sides are still prevallent and im also feeling leaner.


how long have you been running it ? and what sides are you getting ?

----------


## marcus300

> Reminds me of some of the guys on other forums - started some new blue tops and I've gained 15lbs of water in a week and have CTS so bad I can't move my hand or wrist, this GH is strong as hell bro! Lmao.


lmfao, if only they knew lol

----------


## sitries

Marcus - yeah iv read the thread and im assuming that your reffering to the fact that there has been some speculation of the chinese putting in other compounds in order to mimic HGH sides. This is the reason im switching rom ansamone to the Ukrainian Jins. Although im only doing this as a precautionary measure as i dont 100% believe ansamone have gone bad. 

cyounger100 - Ansamone is not a generic and neither is the original hyge. they are pharma products!

Overall i agree that you never know what your getting from Chinese generics (by this i mean relabelled hyge, blue tops, green tops and rainbow tops.lol). But thats not saying that its all bad and i think some of the conspiracy theories are far fetched. I personally wouldnt use generics anymore because i dont trust it. 

Swith uk - Iv been getting tingling hands, numbness of hands and arms in the night, and iv also got leaner

----------


## swithuk

> Marcus - yeah iv read the thread and im assuming that your reffering to the fact that there has been some speculation of the chinese putting in other compounds in order to mimic HGH sides. This is the reason im switching rom ansamone to the Ukrainian Jins. Although im only doing this as a precautionary measure as i dont 100% believe ansamone have gone bad. 
> 
> cyounger100 - Ansamone is not a generic and neither is the original hyge. they are pharma products!
> 
> Overall i agree that you never know what your getting from Chinese generics (by this i mean relabelled hyge, blue tops, green tops and rainbow tops.lol). But thats not saying that its all bad and i think some of the conspiracy theories are far fetched. I personally wouldnt use generics anymore because i dont trust it. 
> 
> Swith uk - Iv been getting tingling hands, numbness of hands and arms in the night, and iv also got leaner


And how long have you run it?

----------


## marcus300

> Marcus - yeah iv read the thread and im assuming that your reffering to the fact that there has been some speculation of the chinese putting in other compounds in order to mimic HGH sides. This is the reason im switching rom ansamone to the Ukrainian Jins. Although im only doing this as a precautionary measure as i dont 100% believe ansamone have gone bad.


Wasn't me who asked you if you had read the thread  :Hmmmm:

----------


## Sheven

jintropin is green top generic blank vials with a label and a nice box. also chinese. but they are passed around like great quality. if we take the labels and the box out, post them here, everybody would say its generic junk don't touch those. where's the sense in all that? we all do acknowledge the chinese are ruthless and practice dodgy business, why is then gensci trusted? as far as i am concerned they could make unofficially generics and sell them without label like those beautiful green tops that were some time ago on the market. Oh wait, they do that already  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin: 

bottom line is generalization is bad and counterproductive, each case much be studied individually and common sense must be corroborated with proof (scientific, not some "bro's" review). this in case we really want to know the truth and inform people properly.

By the way, i'm thinking of a quick test method for hgh identification using a ELISA antibody test, when i'll have some solid on this i'll inform further, unless i'm censored.

----------


## lld

Yes as we all know the color of the cap and label mean absolutely nothing these days. If there is Money to be made faking a product it will get done and unfortunately no one does fakes like the Chinese. I went to school for graphic design and given enough time I could copy any label/box to perfection. And anyone can do it with a little time spent learning a basic program and a decent printer. I trusted my last supplier until recently so will be having some blood work done. I think that is about our only option these days.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> well as long as you are getting sides generics must be the way too go for sure thanks lol


HAHAHA This page is making me LMFAO!!! I took some of the various Chinese pharm grade, HGH and generic yellow, blue and green colored tops. Funny at that time which was about 3 years ago, everybody was running around talking about blue tops as if they were gold. OOoohh yeah the blue tops! A bunch of guys all bought the blue tops from the regular supplier, it was basically from a batch of around 30 kits and everyone agreed not only no sides, absolutely nothing. That threw the blue top theory out. Then the next batch came in and they were yellow, now there were some sides, so everyone thought they were good and the Buzz was get the YELLOW TOPS, L0L. 

Then i moved up in the world, LOL and bought JIN'S, I really had sides, oh my gosh, yes i said lots of SIDES! That 10 lbs of water gain, blood sugar all out of whack 20 minutes after i took my shot, sweating, more CTS than generics, hungry even though i just ate, thanks to this site found out it probably had (GHRP-6) in it. Sides told me this shit if FU...k up. I quit and swore off all chinese. Then i found Sero and started having real HGH RESULTS!!!! Yes my first reaction was "RESULTS" not "SIDES". When you are taking the real deal your first reaction should be results and not brainwashed feeling your fingers to see if they feel numb. Yes side effects are part of real HGH, but results are number one. Leaner, harder, density, better skin and hair grows so fast it's crazy! I think i have been taking 2-3 ius for probably a year and a half, not really sure how long and i am still amazed how the stuff just keep continuing to work better and better. I feel HGH when your over 50 taken at the HRT doses just keeps making things better. It's not a 3 to 6 month product. Yes if your younger and using it to compete or just look better, taken at high dosages of 8 units a day or i guess 15 as some pro's do, then those 6 months are good for that. At 58 i want to stay around 2 and 3iu's max for longevity. 
My point is i feel a Natural reaction to really good product would be RESULTS and not SIDES!! I have noticed the salesman are always referring to sides and not results, at least where I am at. Most of these salesman here do not even know the web address of this site. When people take, test or Tren etc. the first reaction isn't my hair is falling out like crazy from the tren and my libido just went to sh...t. My first reaction to tren was holy shit this stuff works crazy fast and the results are in the mirror. My second reaction was i'm not taking this anymore as the sides are not worth the results to me. Some guys don't care about the negative sides, but they outweigh the results for me, so i keep my products limited to less harsh side effects, but that's just a personal choice. If i take Winny, i don't base the quality based on joints aching, i look for results and i'm betting most everybody bases typical gear and there results based on what the product is supposed to do. Seems like with HGH people are looking for sides first and not results. Another brainwashing the guys are selling it promote!

----------


## cyounger100

> Reminds me of some of the guys on other forums - started some new blue tops and I've gained 15lbs of water in a week and have CTS so bad I can't move my hand or wrist, this GH is strong as hell bro! Lmao.


yep i know what you mean complete fools over at PM etc it still amazes me people waste there money on generics that makes you look worse i guess these kids will never get the fact they are wasting there money untill they try real pharm gh . I have completly gave up trying too help / convince people not to use them if they cant understand that there is a reason why pharm grade cost so much and why generics full of sugar water is 1 dollar an iu then they deserve it

----------


## cyounger100

> HAHAHA This page is making me LMFAO!!! I took some of the various Chinese pharm grade, HGH and generic yellow, blue and green colored tops. Funny at that time which was about 3 years ago, everybody was running around talking about blue tops as if they were gold. OOoohh yeah the blue tops! A bunch of guys all bought the blue tops from the regular supplier, it was basically from a batch of around 30 kits and everyone agreed not only no sides, absolutely nothing. That threw the blue top theory out. Then the next batch came in and they were yellow, now there were some sides, so everyone thought they were good and the Buzz was get the YELLOW TOPS, L0L. 
> 
> Then i moved up in the world, LOL and bought JIN'S, I really had sides, oh my gosh, yes i said lots of SIDES! That 10 lbs of water gain, blood sugar all out of whack 20 minutes after i took my shot, sweating, more CTS than generics, hungry even though i just ate, thanks to this site found out it probably had (GHRP-6) in it. Sides told me this shit if FU...k up. I quit and swore off all chinese. Then i found Sero and started having real HGH RESULTS!!!! Yes my first reaction was "RESULTS" not "SIDES". When you are taking the real deal your first reaction should be results and not brainwashed feeling your fingers to see if they feel numb. Yes side effects are part of real HGH, but results are number one. Leaner, harder, density, better skin and hair grows so fast it's crazy! I think i have been taking 2-3 ius for probably a year and a half, not really sure how long and i am still amazed how the stuff just keep continuing to work better and better. I feel HGH when your over 50 taken at the HRT doses just keeps making things better. It's not a 3 to 6 month product. Yes if your younger and using it to compete or just look better, taken at high dosages of 8 units a day or i guess 15 as some pro's do, then those 6 months are good for that. At 58 i want to stay around 2 and 3iu's max for longevity. 
> My point is i feel a Natural reaction to really good product would be RESULTS and not SIDES!! I have noticed the salesman are always referring to sides and not results, at least where I am at. Most of these salesman here do not even know the web address of this site. When people take, test or Tren etc. the first reaction isn't my hair is falling out like crazy from the tren and my libido just went to sh...t. My first reaction to tren was holy shit this stuff works crazy fast and the results are in the mirror. My second reaction was i'm not taking this anymore as the sides are not worth the results to me. Some guys don't care about the negative sides, but they outweigh the results for me, so i keep my products limited to less harsh side effects, but that's just a personal choice. If i take Winny, i don't base the quality based on joints aching, i look for results and i'm betting most everybody bases typical gear and there results based on what the product is supposed to do. Seems like with HGH people are looking for sides first and not results. Another brainwashing the guys are selling it promote!




you couldnt have said it better but still these kids will never listen too you we were all hard headed at one time

----------


## marcus300

> yep i know what you mean complete fools over at PM etc it still amazes me people waste there money on generics that makes you look worse i guess these kids will never get the fact they are wasting there money untill they try real pharm gh . I have completly gave up trying too help / convince people not to use them if they cant understand that there is a reason why pharm grade cost so much and why generics full of sugar water is 1 dollar an iu then they deserve it


There are that many fakes accounts over at PM promoting their sponsor's gh is laughable, they even have wonderful lab reports what get produced out of thin air  :Smilie:   :Smilie:

----------


## Angel of death

PM is like the twilight zone with how brainwashed those people seem into believing riptropin is a genuine product

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Well colors of tops do matter if the color is black.... Well black isn't a color is if???...





> Can you explain what your point is please?


I can't figure that post out either?? What is the meaning of the black isn't a color thing???? :Hmmmm:

----------


## Sheven

Black is not a color is a contrast or also called as a non-color. Semantics.

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## cyounger100

> PM is like the twilight zone with how brainwashed those people seem into believing riptropin is a genuine product



Majority of them people are getting free shit and etc over there the rest that praise are just young kids that think extreme water bloat and extreme sides and walking around looking like complete shit means hey my rips ,mexis, blue tops are the best lmao. They have a guy over there now trying to push fake seros at 156 iu lol one guy called him out he pmed him and told him too keep quiet that board is the biggest pile of shit i have ever seen .

----------


## Synergy1

> HAHAHA This page is making me LMFAO!!! I took some of the various Chinese pharm grade, HGH and generic yellow, blue and green colored tops. Funny at that time which was about 3 years ago, everybody was running around talking about blue tops as if they were gold. OOoohh yeah the blue tops! A bunch of guys all bought the blue tops from the regular supplier, it was basically from a batch of around 30 kits and everyone agreed not only no sides, absolutely nothing. That threw the blue top theory out. Then the next batch came in and they were yellow, now there were some sides, so everyone thought they were good and the Buzz was get the YELLOW TOPS, L0L. 
> 
> Then i moved up in the world, LOL and bought JIN'S, I really had sides, oh my gosh, yes i said lots of SIDES! That 10 lbs of water gain, blood sugar all out of whack 20 minutes after i took my shot, sweating, more CTS than generics, hungry even though i just ate, thanks to this site found out it probably had (GHRP-6) in it. Sides told me this shit if FU...k up. I quit and swore off all chinese. Then i found Sero and started having real HGH RESULTS!!!! Yes my first reaction was "RESULTS" not "SIDES". When you are taking the real deal your first reaction should be results and not brainwashed feeling your fingers to see if they feel numb. Yes side effects are part of real HGH, but results are number one. Leaner, harder, density, better skin and hair grows so fast it's crazy! I think i have been taking 2-3 ius for probably a year and a half, not really sure how long and i am still amazed how the stuff just keep continuing to work better and better. I feel HGH when your over 50 taken at the HRT doses just keeps making things better. It's not a 3 to 6 month product. Yes if your younger and using it to compete or just look better, taken at high dosages of 8 units a day or i guess 15 as some pro's do, then those 6 months are good for that. At 58 i want to stay around 2 and 3iu's max for longevity. 
> My point is i feel a Natural reaction to really good product would be RESULTS and not SIDES!! I have noticed the salesman are always referring to sides and not results, at least where I am at. Most of these salesman here do not even know the web address of this site. When people take, test or Tren etc. the first reaction isn't my hair is falling out like crazy from the tren and my libido just went to sh...t. My first reaction to tren was holy shit this stuff works crazy fast and the results are in the mirror. My second reaction was i'm not taking this anymore as the sides are not worth the results to me. Some guys don't care about the negative sides, but they outweigh the results for me, so i keep my products limited to less harsh side effects, but that's just a personal choice. If i take Winny, i don't base the quality based on joints aching, i look for results and i'm betting most everybody bases typical gear and there results based on what the product is supposed to do. Seems like with HGH people are looking for sides first and not results. Another brainwashing the guys are selling it promote!


My question is how in the hell do people afford 8, 10, 12, 14 iu's per day of hgh? Thats crazy money! Those seem like such high doses to me. If you are using legit hgh, wouldn't that be overkill x 10? Granted I'm not experienced, but Ive heard of great results with much lower doses. Some of this stuff blows my mind as I continue to learn.

----------


## swithuk

> I dont agree that all chinese growth is rubbish. Iv had good results off hyge and currrently on ansamone on 2iu a day and getting sides!!!! Initially i didnt think the ansamone was that strong and did a week at 4iu a day but then sides kicked in and i lowered the dose - sides are still prevallent and im also feeling leaner.


I was running ansomone a few months back at 5i.u e.d and didnt get any sides at all really. They were vague. Im running jins now and i think they are better

----------


## cyounger100

> My question is how in the hell do people afford 8, 10, 12, 14 iu's per day of hgh? Thats crazy money! Those seem like such high doses to me. If you are using legit hgh, wouldn't that be overkill x 10? Granted I'm not experienced, but Ive heard of great results with much lower doses. Some of this stuff blows my mind as I continue to learn.


Im sure the guys in competing have sponsors that pay for it but for us normal guys its not that expensive too run 4 ius or 5 of pharm grade gh 5 days on 2 days off like i do

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## Synergy1

> Im sure the guys in competing have sponsors that pay for it but for us normal guys its not that expensive too run 4 ius or 5 of pharm grade gh 5 days on 2 days off like i do


You are right. I guess you have to gauge how it makes you feel and if you can see and feel results it will totally be worth it. Do you run anything else or strictly gh 5/2
PS---pretty nice turd cutter in your pic!!!

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## cyounger100

im currently running tren ace and mast p i have been running gh for a lil over a year straight 5on 2 off i switch compounds every few months but stay on gh

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## Edwin23q

> im currently running tren ace and mast p i have been running gh for a lil over a year straight 5on 2 off i switch compounds every few months but stay on gh


God damn man change your Avi, it's killing me.
I can't even concentrate on the point your trying to make, lol

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

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## cyounger100

> God damn man change your Avi, it's killing me.
> I can't even concentrate on the point your trying to make, lol
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


I havent change my avi since i have been here i am in love and im not sharing lolll its def one of the longer relationships i have been in she might be the one lol

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## Microbrew

I get serum test on all HGH that I've taken in the last few years, accept for one that I didn't get around to. Some people don't believe in the HGH serum test but I do. It's like not believing in the Testosterone serum test, they both do the same thing, test the amount of test or gh in you. Of course it doesn't test the fillers that they use and the fillers are pretty much what most people complain about. Some make you hold a ton of water and some don't, but that mostly effects people differently.

----------


## Sheven

> I get serum test on all HGH that I've taken in the last few years, accept for one that I didn't get around to. Some people don't believe in the HGH serum test but I do. It's like not believing in the Testosterone serum test, they both do the same thing, test the amount of test or gh in you. Of course it doesn't test the fillers that they use and the fillers are pretty much what most people complain about. Some make you hold a ton of water and some don't, but that mostly effects people differently.


The filler can't possible have this kind of side effects (water retention etc). Its the side substances that some manufacture add to the HGH so that the customers get the inside side effects and weight gain that makes them say "Whaaa i'm gonna be Coleman in 2 months time". Its a scheme pulled in order to attract and convince a huge amount of users to use again and again HGH in order to get "big". It all starts from the wrong belief HGH will make you grow huge, being that the mass market is full of uneducated users, they hit for the mass market. Only a limited number of people do really know how real HGH works so this isn't an attractive and lucrative market for them. Real HGH isn't that spectacular at all except for those dieting and really knowing their shit, the mass market of users is not near a proper diet and don't take HGH for its main benefits which come around burning fat and leaner muscle, most of the people buy it for the purpose of getting "huge" fast. Since real HGH won't make you "huge" fast and even a dbol and sust cycle will blast you way bigger and heavier than any HGH cycle, the suppliers needed to tap into this market. This whole HGH scam started with the purpose to convince into buying HGH the people who want to get "huge". Then it looked far more attractive to downgrade the somatropin dosage and higher the other substances ever since customers were really glad with the water bloating (e.g. PM reviews). Today's situation got at where it is step by step and each year was moving towards this direction (people raving about getting big on hgh, people demanding much cheaper hgh, people boosting the fake hgh sellers). Step by step, nobody wants to sell real hgh anymore because its uncompetitive business and only a limited amount of people really appreciate. *Give 4IU of real hgh to any 180lbs and 14% bodyfat average knowledge guy and he will throw it in your face in 1 month time saying you gave him water. Give him RIPS, and he will come back asking for more ever since he gained 8 kg of "muscle" in 1 month.*  Its the truth and it all comes down to the user, the chinese can make a good profit also on the real HGH they don't need to cheat the quality (i'm meaning the main guys, not the counterfeiters and scammers that try to make 10$ out of 50 cents) but when you can sell methylprednisolone and people come and ask for more more more why even bother with real HGH? Somatrope Pharmchemical is a BLAST in all Europe everybody buys it its on the net on shop in gyms, i was the one to prove it is relabeled methylprednisolone, the German customs analyzed it and its same result, cortisone, but this product is being sold for 7-8 years and still sells good ... what's the conclusion on that? And that one is a Bulgarian racket not a Chinese. Leave the racism card away and learn by being smarter not by out-casting a nation or 1.3 billion, you'll never win that game, they'll take over anyway  :Big Grin:

----------


## swithuk

> The filler can't possible have this kind of side effects (water retention etc). Its the side substances that some manufacture add to the HGH so that the customers get the inside side effects and weight gain that makes them say "Whaaa i'm gonna be Coleman in 2 months time". Its a scheme pulled in order to attract and convince a huge amount of users to use again and again HGH in order to get "big". It all starts from the wrong belief HGH will make you grow huge, being that the mass market is full of uneducated users, they hit for the mass market. Only a limited number of people do really know how real HGH works so this isn't an attractive and lucrative market for them. Real HGH isn't that spectacular at all except for those dieting and really knowing their shit, the mass market of users is not near a proper diet and don't take HGH for its main benefits which come around burning fat and leaner muscle, most of the people buy it for the purpose of getting "huge" fast. Since real HGH won't make you "huge" fast and even a dbol and sust cycle will blast you way bigger and heavier than any HGH cycle, the suppliers needed to tap into this market. This whole HGH scam started with the purpose to convince into buying HGH the people who want to get "huge". Then it looked far more attractive to downgrade the somatropin dosage and higher the other substances ever since customers were really glad with the water bloating (e.g. PM reviews). Today's situation got at where it is step by step and each year was moving towards this direction (people raving about getting big on hgh, people demanding much cheaper hgh, people boosting the fake hgh sellers). Step by step, nobody wants to sell real hgh anymore because its uncompetitive business and only a limited amount of people really appreciate. *Give 4IU of real hgh to any 180lbs and 14% bodyfat average knowledge guy and he will throw it in your face in 1 month time saying you gave him water. Give him RIPS, and he will come back asking for more ever since he gained 8 kg of "muscle" in 1 month.*  Its the truth and it all comes down to the user, the chinese can make a good profit also on the real HGH they don't need to cheat the quality (i'm meaning the main guys, not the counterfeiters and scammers that try to make 10$ out of 50 cents) but when you can sell methylprednisolone and people come and ask for more more more why even bother with real HGH? Somatrope Pharmchemical is a BLAST in all Europe everybody buys it its on the net on shop in gyms, i was the one to prove it is relabeled methylprednisolone, the German customs analyzed it and its same result, cortisone, but this product is being sold for 7-8 years and still sells good ... what's the conclusion on that? And that one is a Bulgarian racket not a Chinese. Leave the racism card away and learn by being smarter not by out-casting a nation or 1.3 billion, you'll never win that game, they'll take over anyway


excellent post .......

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## Sgt. Hartman

> I get serum test on all HGH that I've taken in the last few years, accept for one that I didn't get around to. Some people don't believe in the HGH serum test but I do. It's like not believing in the Testosterone serum test, they both do the same thing, test the amount of test or gh in you. Of course it doesn't test the fillers that they use and the fillers are pretty much what most people complain about. Some make you hold a ton of water and some don't, but that mostly effects people differently.


Peptides pinned before blood work would spike GH serum levels as well and GHRP's are known to be faked for GH.

----------


## Microbrew

> Peptides pinned before blood work would spike GH serum levels as well and GHRP's are known to be faked for GH.


Yes I know that and one reason why I've been getting my gh from the same guy for around 8 years. You really have to trust where you get your stuff from.

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## EasyDoesIt

> My question is how in the hell do people afford 8, 10, 12, 14 iu's per day of hgh? Thats crazy money! Those seem like such high doses to me. If you are using legit hgh, wouldn't that be overkill x 10? Granted I'm not experienced, but Ive heard of great results with much lower doses. Some of this stuff blows my mind as I continue to learn.





> Im sure the guys in competing have sponsors that pay for it but for us normal guys its not that expensive too run 4 ius or 5 of pharm grade gh 5 days on 2 days off like i do


Yeah, your right about the sponsors and some of there sponsors are giving them pharm or half pricing it, and they are endorsing there products. But sometimes what they are endorsing is different from what they are taking. As you are not going to go ask the professional in his field about...... Just an FYI for people just entering this market.

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## ChuckEisenmench

Keep trying Jintropin, it is genuine.

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## Xtralarg

> Keep trying Jintropin, it is genuine.


Have a day off FFS!

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## hellokitty08

anything F*CKING CHINESE, is F*CKING FAKE!! However it comes in. End of story.

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## human project

> anything F*CKING CHINESE, is F*CKING FAKE!! However it comes in. End of story.


Well there you have it...

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## hankdiesel

> anything F*CKING CHINESE, is F*CKING FAKE!! However it comes in. End of story.


that is bullshit

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## gixxerboy1

> that is bullshit


God knows i love my chicken chow mein

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## Edwin23q

> anything F*CKING CHINESE, is F*CKING FAKE!! However it comes in. End of story.


What? I bought a TAG watch from china with 0.5ct diamonds all around it for $15, you telling me that's fake too???
Lol

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

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## hankdiesel

> God knows i love my chicken chow mein


Haha. But for real, you're not narrow mined enough to say that every last bit of hgh coming out of China is fake. That is what the guy I quoted is saying. I understand there is a lot of garbage out there and "buyer beware" should be used in nearly all cases. I'm not going to put percentages on it and try to decide exactly how much is fake, peptides, real hgh, or whatever. I'm just saying that I would find it hard to believe that every last kit that the entire country produces is fake.

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## EasyDoesIt

> Haha. But for real, you're not narrow mined enough to say that every last bit of hgh coming out of China is fake. That is what the guy I quoted is saying. I understand there is a lot of garbage out there and "buyer beware" should be used in nearly all cases. I'm not going to put percentages on it and try to decide exactly how much is fake, peptides, real hgh, or whatever. I'm just saying that I would find it hard to believe that every last kit that the entire country produces is fake.


I am not sure if you have been following this at all, but most here have made some very similar discoveries the hard way. I am in the U.S. and as far as HGH from China we have gone through all the things we thought were legitimate through Jins, authentication codes which were authentic, except they were authentic through jins fake site. Yes JIN SITE. It is a site that sells to people, not the medical industry. Myself and many others have taken several of the Chinese brands and many jokes have been made to the infamous BLUE TOPS, and any other colored tops someone could buy. Recently some members such as Marcus300 discovered fake ansomone by ankiebio, i am not familiar with them, but i guess many have been buying from them for many years and recently discovered counterfeit HGH. The Chinese have discovered great methods to counterfeiting, HGH using various peptides that mimic some sides of HGH. Some of the sides are terrible and some have had some vey bad health effects fro the hgh. Basically China "the govenment" does not care if the suppliers are selling fake HGH to people outside of China. Also, they know there is no one to complain to. The other thing they have figured out is that as long as they have people buying and re-selling of anywhere between 200.00 - 250.00 per kit, they are going to continue to have customers. WE have already gone through the reality that real HGH can not be sold for anywhere near that cheap, due to the manufacturing costs. This thread has been very helpful in verifying suspicions that many like myself had based on side effects that i was having and lack of results. Akso, lack of consistency from batch to batch. Probably be a good idea to go back and read some of the posts from Marcus300, extralarg and a few others that have had many years of buying pharm grade hgh and explanations of the products from china. This thread has helped many people. A lot of people have been using or reselling HGH from China and do not want to believe that the 100's of kits they have been selling of the 5 kits sitting in there refrigerator are junk. There has been some talk of Ukrainian JIN'S being real. Here is the link which was posted very recently. http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...n#.UQ6ZCKUwV8s
Also, people like myself have used real Pharm grade HGH and and counterfiet Pharm along with the generics and the difference is obvious as "night and day". That conclusion has been CONFIRMED over and over among many users on this thread.

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## EasyDoesIt

I am beginning to think it would be a good idea for this thread to have a new person being able to post on this thread having to read a number of threads before posting on it. I know myself and many others have re-posted the same information over and over everytime a new person gets on that is convinced of the Chinese HGH being real and then changing there opinion after reading many of the posts. I among others do not want to continue repeating ourselves, but the thread was meant to help others who have had suspicions such as myself end up here. This is no reflection on yourself Hankdiesel it just happens to be that i for one can see that this is going to be a never ending process. I guess the other method would be to have a quick reply with let's say 6 links of some of the very convincing explanations and damaging results members have had. Due to the fact that the thread was started from the negative and damaging health discoveries from the Chinese HGH and efforts to help those that are seeking knowledge based on suspicions. I have no control over this, but this is such a sensitive issue and many people today are buying HGH that have never used HGH or gear of any type and are doing internet research before they purchase a product like this from someone they don't know or a friend is referring them to. Due to the magic of HGH many people are interested in it's anti aging and miraculous benefits of fat loss and muscular development at the correct dosages. Obviously the prescription costs through Anti-aging clinics is prohibitive to many. That causes seeking other resources for purchase. Those people are very uneducated and we here are trying to help them from throwing there money away and possibly injecting something that may cause damaging health effects. Just a thought...

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## swithuk

yes its the best site/thread ive come across

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## EasyDoesIt

> yEh well there is realHGH from Russia and Ukraine, right Danb?


That's why i placed the link about it. I personally have no knowledge of it. But there is positive feedback about it here on this thread.

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## johnk271

EasyDoesIt - what differences have you noticed between the real stuff and fake stuff? Just curious, not calling you out or anything because i believe everythIng from China is fake as well.

----------


## swithuk

Most is but not all........

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## hellokitty08

> What? I bought a TAG watch from china with 0.5ct diamonds all around it for $15, you telling me that's fake too???
> Lol
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


yes that is fake. the cheapest TAG watch is $800 and you paid $15. Not only is it fake, IT'S EXTRA FAKE. lol

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## Perseverance1

So you guys are saying all "hyge" HGH is fake? My online source has hyge HGH out of China and someone left a review saying it was legit and that they confirmed via blood tests.....do you think that was a fake review or???


I'm just trying to find some legit HGH to help heal my shoulder.....

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## Edwin23q

> yes that is fake. the cheapest TAG watch is $800 and you paid $15. Not only is it fake, IT'S EXTRA FAKE. lol


Lol I know.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

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## hellokitty08

hehe  :Smilie:

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## EasyDoesIt

> EasyDoesIt - what differences have you noticed between the real stuff and fake stuff? Just curious, not calling you out or anything because i believe everythIng from China is fake as well.


My results based on only use of 2-3 units 5 on 2 off. Real pharm grade HGH improves skin at which being 58 is noticeable to me. Rapid hair growth and healthier hair again at my age is very noticeable. Fat loss at only an average eating plan takes you back to younger years and you go, wow i'm not even eating good and maintaining muscle mass while not gaining body fat without much training. Long term have been muscle density continues to improve, hardness, fat loss. I will be able to guage sleeping better now that my schedule is not so screwed up. So as we know after even 40 it is harder to develop muscle mass let alone maintain it. But dedication, proper training and rest will make it happen even without hgh. HGH increases and improves everything at a much faster rate and you will see in the mirror physical differences and for me i see vascularity and ability to keep my body-fat down. This does not happen overnight. I truly believe it does reverse the aging process in many ways. It is hard to explain that to someone in there 20’s or 30’s. I know the facts state that 2iu’s will not increase muscle mass, but I disagree based on someone who is training properly and eating right. I personally am predisposed to being fat. I was chubby as a kid and had various areas of my body that were challenged. So at a low dosage, such as i am taking, the slight muscle mass increases and staying lean along with skin and hair improvement are my observations. Presently i am just maintaining, as my schedule has not allowed much training. I will tell you for sure even when i was in my 30's which seems like a child at this stage of my life, based on my present training and eating habits that i would look BAD. Body fat comes easy to me! Lol Cosmetically, i would never keep fullness in my muscles without quality training and diet. I am still amazed at how well the PHARM-GRADE works! My schedule is about to change and i am going to start working out hard again and be able to get more rest. I am anxious to start working out seriously again. KEEP IN MIND THAT I AM SPEAKING WITH A HISTORY OF EXERCISE AND MARTIAL ARTS MOST OF MY LIFE. I owned a Martial Arts School for many years and trained with weights and Martial Arts very hard. For the past 5-1/2 years i had been working a night job that was very stressful and on my feet for 10 hours till 7:00 am and also maintaining a personal training business during the day. About a year and a half ago i finally hit the wall completely burnt out and dropped training business, due to the weak economy. I am now just starting to train people again and no longer working nights. That is all more information that i care to share on this forum and you probably do not want to hear. Point being just sustaining all that at my age is a task. Without the HGH I do not want to even imagine what i would look like!! LOL! Also, i do run about 250mgs of sustanon per week, broken up into two shots per week. I would like to take 5-6iu's of HGH at some point, but i need a reason beyond maintenance to do that. Maybe a photo shoot as i do not compete. 

Fake HGH that i have had caused excessive bloating and water retention of a minimum of 10-12lbs. I kept upping the dosage until i reached 6iu's and i only looked softer and worse due to water retention. At that time my diet and training was much better than it is now, due to my schedule. Also, my blood sugar was out of whack. (Also, please no one tell me HGH can cause the blood sugar problems) I have posted this before and comments came back referring to hgh affecting blood sugar. "You would not have the problems regarding blood sugar" i was, on real HGH as i never do anymore. I would take a protein shake, eat added protein and take my hgh. I know probably better to take in the evening as i do now, but 20-30 minutes after taking i would start shaking and feel like i needed sugar and food again. Which was not normal. my jintropin at the time had authentication codes etc. I knew it was not working and the water retention along with the higher doses making me look like shit, led me here. That was when i discovered the blood sugar problem due to ghrp-6 probably being in the fake HGH. I stopped taking it and the water retention went away pretty quick and i started looking like i normally would. Prior to that i had various brands from China and generics from China. Some did absolutely nothing and others i thought were improving some fat loss. When it came to the point that my sides were getting bad and i thought i had the best product from China that was available to me, that's when I quit taking HGH for quite awhile, until someone i knew had Sero. After taking it i was no longer questioning results as they were real. I am definitely gathering up links from this thread to post when asked this question again, as I have stated this before and can see it will go on and on with new members on here. This thread is LONNNNGGG!

----------


## AnabolicDoc

> The filler can't possible have this kind of side effects (water retention etc). Its the side substances that some manufacture add to the HGH so that the customers get the inside side effects and weight gain that makes them say "Whaaa i'm gonna be Coleman in 2 months time". Its a scheme pulled in order to attract and convince a huge amount of users to use again and again HGH in order to get "big". It all starts from the wrong belief HGH will make you grow huge, being that the mass market is full of uneducated users, they hit for the mass market. Only a limited number of people do really know how real HGH works so this isn't an attractive and lucrative market for them. Real HGH isn't that spectacular at all except for those dieting and really knowing their shit, the mass market of users is not near a proper diet and don't take HGH for its main benefits which come around burning fat and leaner muscle, most of the people buy it for the purpose of getting "huge" fast. Since real HGH won't make you "huge" fast and even a dbol and sust cycle will blast you way bigger and heavier than any HGH cycle, the suppliers needed to tap into this market. This whole HGH scam started with the purpose to convince into buying HGH the people who want to get "huge". Then it looked far more attractive to downgrade the somatropin dosage and higher the other substances ever since customers were really glad with the water bloating (e.g. PM reviews). Today's situation got at where it is step by step and each year was moving towards this direction (people raving about getting big on hgh, people demanding much cheaper hgh, people boosting the fake hgh sellers). Step by step, nobody wants to sell real hgh anymore because its uncompetitive business and only a limited amount of people really appreciate. Give 4IU of real hgh to any 180lbs and 14% bodyfat average knowledge guy and he will throw it in your face in 1 month time saying you gave him water. Give him RIPS, and he will come back asking for more ever since he gained 8 kg of "muscle" in 1 month. Its the truth and it all comes down to the user, the chinese can make a good profit also on the real HGH they don't need to cheat the quality (i'm meaning the main guys, not the counterfeiters and scammers that try to make 10$ out of 50 cents) but when you can sell methylprednisolone and people come and ask for more more more why even bother with real HGH? Somatrope Pharmchemical is a BLAST in all Europe everybody buys it its on the net on shop in gyms, i was the one to prove it is relabeled methylprednisolone, the German customs analyzed it and its same result, cortisone, but this product is being sold for 7-8 years and still sells good ... what's the conclusion on that? And that one is a Bulgarian racket not a Chinese. Leave the racism card away and learn by being smarter not by out-casting a nation or 1.3 billion, you'll never win that game, they'll take over anyway


Very interesting post. So are you saying that most non-pharm grade hGH is a mix of peptides and methylprednisolone or just methylpred?

----------


## johnk271

EasyDoesIt - thanks for the reply. What sides do u feel from the legit gh if any??

----------


## Synergy1

> My results based on only use of 2-3 units 5 on 2 off. Real pharm grade HGH improves skin at which being 58 is noticeable to me. Rapid hair growth and healthier hair again at my age is very noticeable. Fat loss at only an average eating plan takes you back to younger years and you go, wow i'm not even eating good and maintaining muscle mass while not gaining body fat without much training. Long term have been muscle density continues to improve, hardness, fat loss. I will be able to guage sleeping better now that my schedule is not so screwed up. So as we know after even 40 it is harder to develop muscle mass let alone maintain it. But dedication, proper training and rest will make it happen even without hgh. HGH increases and improves everything at a much faster rate and you will see in the mirror physical differences and for me i see vascularity and ability to keep my body-fat down. This does not happen overnight. I truly believe it does reverse the aging process in many ways. It is hard to explain that to someone in there 20s or 30s. I know the facts state that 2ius will not increase muscle mass, but I disagree based on someone who is training properly and eating right. I personally am predisposed to being fat. I was chubby as a kid and had various areas of my body that were challenged. So at a low dosage, such as i am taking, the slight muscle mass increases and staying lean along with skin and hair improvement are my observations. Presently i am just maintaining, as my schedule has not allowed much training. I will tell you for sure even when i was in my 30's which seems like a child at this stage of my life, based on my present training and eating habits that i would look BAD. Body fat comes easy to me! Lol Cosmetically, i would never keep fullness in my muscles without quality training and diet. I am still amazed at how well the PHARM-GRADE works! My schedule is about to change and i am going to start working out hard again and be able to get more rest. I am anxious to start working out seriously again. KEEP IN MIND THAT I AM SPEAKING WITH A HISTORY OF EXERCISE AND MARTIAL ARTS MOST OF MY LIFE. I owned a Martial Arts School for many years and trained with weights and Martial Arts very hard. For the past 5-1/2 years i had been working a night job that was very stressful and on my feet for 10 hours till 7:00 am and also maintaining a personal training business during the day. About a year and a half ago i finally hit the wall completely burnt out and dropped training business, due to the weak economy. I am now just starting to train people again and no longer working nights. That is all more information that i care to share on this forum and you probably do not want to hear. Point being just sustaining all that at my age is a task. Without the HGH I do not want to even imagine what i would look like!! LOL! Also, i do run about 250mgs of sustanon per week, broken up into two shots per week. I would like to take 5-6iu's of HGH at some point, but i need a reason beyond maintenance to do that. Maybe a photo shoot as i do not compete. 
> 
> Fake HGH that i have had caused excessive bloating and water retention of a minimum of 10-12lbs. I kept upping the dosage until i reached 6iu's and i only looked softer and worse due to water retention. At that time my diet and training was much better than it is now, due to my schedule. Also, my blood sugar was out of whack. (Also, please no one tell me HGH can cause the blood sugar problems) I have posted this before and comments came back referring to hgh affecting blood sugar. "You would not have the problems regarding blood sugar" i was, on real HGH as i never do anymore. I would take a protein shake, eat added protein and take my hgh. I know probably better to take in the evening as i do now, but 20-30 minutes after taking i would start shaking and feel like i needed sugar and food again. Which was not normal. my jintropin at the time had authentication codes etc. I knew it was not working and the water retention along with the higher doses making me look like shit, led me here. That was when i discovered the blood sugar problem due to ghrp-6 probably being in the fake HGH. I stopped taking it and the water retention went away pretty quick and i started looking like i normally would. Prior to that i had various brands from China and generics from China. Some did absolutely nothing and others i thought were improving some fat loss. When it came to the point that my sides were getting bad and i thought i had the best product from China that was available to me, that's when I quit taking HGH for quite awhile, until someone i knew had Sero. After taking it i was no longer questioning results as they were real. I am definitely gathering up links from this thread to post when asked this question again, as I have stated this before and can see it will go on and on with new members on here. This thread is LONNNNGGG!



Thanks for the write up---very informative

----------


## Edwin23q

All I can say is that I have the best fridge in the world, lol




Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

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## swithuk

> All I can say is that I have the best fridge in the world, lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


whats your address ? and what time do you leave for work ?  :Wink:

----------


## BlInDsIdE

:EEK!:  :EEK!:  :EEK!: 

good lord- I'm jealous



> All I can say is that I have the best fridge in the world, lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

----------


## Xtralarg

> All I can say is that I have the best fridge in the world, lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


Did the police not find that when they busted you a few weeks ago?

----------


## Edwin23q

> Did the police not find that when they busted you a few weeks ago?


New shipment.

I own 3 houses and the fridge always changes locations.
By the way the cops didnt search my house, they just came in and spoke to me about the seizures.

Your asking a lot of interesting questions my friend. Any motive behind it? Just curious.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

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## swithuk

:Aajack:

----------


## Xtralarg

> New shipment.
> 
> I own 3 houses and the fridge always changes locations.
> By the way the cops didnt search my house, they just came in and spoke to me about the seizures.
> 
> Your asking a lot of interesting questions my friend. Any motive behind it? Just curious.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


I find it very hard to believe what you say, you squirmed about the letter and now you're telling us more things that any reasonable person would find difficult to believe. 

It's obvious you have a massive ammount of gh and that you're very proud of it but if I were you I'd keep that sort of information to myself let alone post pics of it on the internet, it looks like your trying to sell it from where I'm standing and I'm not the only member of staff to think that. Be careful.

----------


## marcus300

> All I can say is that I have the best fridge in the world, lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


To be fair that looks like a fridge full of crap, I'd rather inject rat piss lol

----------


## swithuk

:1laugh:   :Owned:

----------


## swithuk

> new shipment.
> 
> I own 3 houses and the fridge always changes locations.
> By the way the cops didnt search my house, they just came in and spoke to me about the *seizures*.
> 
> Your asking a lot of interesting questions my friend. Any motive behind it? Just curious.
> 
> Sent from my iphone using forum runner


was that about the brain seizures youve been having ?

----------


## Sheven

> Very interesting post. So are you saying that most non-pharm grade hGH is a mix of peptides and methylprednisolone or just methylpred?


no. the fake ones is metylprednisolone or peptides. there are plenty of +95% purity hgh around.

----------


## Edwin23q

> I find it very hard to believe what you say, you squirmed about the letter and now you're telling us more things that any reasonable person would find difficult to believe.
> 
> It's obvious you have a massive ammount of gh and that you're very proud of it but if I were you I'd keep that sort of information to myself let alone post pics of it on the internet, it looks like your trying to sell it from where I'm standing and I'm not the only member of staff to think that. Be careful.


Think as you like mate but ask anyone if I've tried selling anything on here and you'll get the same answer which is a big no.
As I stated to you on a previous post/thread which I think this is now the continuation of I don't really know or understand or to be honest care anymore what your motive on here is, but it's clear that you stalk my posts about hgh and try to come up with a big conspiracy theory, lol
Anyway, just as I told you in the other thread, no hard feelings.

Marcus,
I know based on what's going around the presumption is automatically to think all hgh is low grade or crap, which I might add I agree with, but since there's no way of each of us proving each other right or wrong about my hgh ,then there's no point debating it.

To the other post stating a brain seizure?
No brain seizures here mate and never stated it anywhere, so not sure what your on yourself.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

----------


## Xtralarg

> Think as you like mate but ask anyone if I've tried selling anything on here and you'll get the same answer which is a big no.
> As I stated to you on a previous post/thread which I think this is now the continuation of I don't really know or understand or to be honest care anymore what your motive on here is, but it's clear that you stalk my posts about hgh and try to come up with a big conspiracy theory, lol
> Anyway, just as I told you in the other thread, no hard feelings.
> 
> Marcus,
> I know based on what's going around the presumption is automatically to think all hgh is low grade or crap, which I might add I agree with, but since there's no way of each of us proving each other right or wrong about my hgh ,then there's no point debating it.
> 
> To the other post stating a brain seizure?
> No brain seizures here mate and never stated it anywhere, so not sure what your on yourself.
> ...


Don't worry I'm not stalking you, if you think that it's probably just a bit of paranoia from whatever you're taking this week.

Now be a good boy and stop the silly lies you keep coming out with or else nobody will take you seriously on here.

----------


## Edwin23q

> Don't worry I'm not stalking you, if you think that it's probably just a bit of paranoia from whatever you're taking this week.
> 
> Now be a good boy and stop the silly lies you keep coming out with or else nobody will take you seriously on here.


Sure whatever you say keyboard warrior, as stated numerous times before to you, don't worry about it. You obviously have some issues you need help with, I won't add anymore comments to this.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

----------


## Xtralarg

> Sure whatever you say keyboard warrior, as stated numerous times before to you, don't worry about it. You obviously have some issues you need help with, I won't add anymore comments to this.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


This is the last time I will converse with you on open forum, if you wish to communicate with me then do it via pm, remember you are talking to a staff member and the way you are conducting yourself is attracting a lot of attention, take my advise and change your tone before its too late.

Stay off this thread unless you have a positive contribution to make and stop lying about silly things, it's not clever and people can see through it. 

I repeat, if you want to carry on this conversation do it via pm, not on this thread or any other.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> All I can say is that I have the best fridge in the world, lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner





> To be fair that looks like a fridge full of crap, I'd rather inject rat piss lol


I have to agree on the CRAP part!! I do not think i would be bragging about that. After all of this information and that??

----------


## swithuk

> I have to agree on the CRAP part!! I do not think i would be bragging about that. After all of this information and that??


yeah and its clearly just an advertisement

----------


## smilee2000

This thread was killer until that ridiculous picture showed up! As far as the rest of the thread, all I can say is thank you guys! I have learned more than I ever thought possible. Love this forum!

----------


## Hephens

I will never touch generics again especially from china, after using pharm grade hgh. Theres no comparison these days and i understand why its soo expensive because its worth that much. The gains are completely different, for those who have seen my threads on this board regarding hgh from china i thought i had real deal well they were nothing more than peptides and they were still good for the money but it wasn't real synthetic hgh that your body produces. 

Don't get me wrong china had some of the best hgh in the world yrs ago, when i first tried hgh yrs ago it was a Chinese generic kit and very similar to pharm grade i'm using now, just not as good but was extremely cheaper than what i'm paying for pharm grade now, just slightly less potent. From what i know these underground labs in china producing hgh are just taking raw materials and methods from the bigger companies back in the day like gensci and doing shortcuts to produce cheap hgh. I am really hopeing that china picks its act up and stops producing fake hgh and start making real hgh again at affordable prices for every1 to use but today it looks far from it and hgh in china is the most faked in the world now. I wasted soo much money, tried bluetops, jins, hygertropin, jins were very strong but still fake hgh.

----------


## The Buckerlater

Has anybody used this actual product from china it by a company called ORIGIN pic in closed I've used it before for 5 months with great results along side AAS I had to stop for three month due to finance but feel I have retained a lot of the fat lose and still felt its presents for at least a month after. Also my diet crashed as soon as I stopped because it was Christmas and didn't gain that much fat but still a little.
I totally trust my supplier as he is big in the game and has reputation to uphold, but there is always a chance something could slip through as you are only as good as your suppliers word.
So really just a post to say I've had and seen good results also if any one has used this I would be really interested in your results thanks

----------


## gixxerboy1

> Has anybody used this actual product from china it by a company called ORIGIN pic in closed I've used it before for 5 months with great results along side AAS I had to stop for three month due to finance but feel I have retained a lot of the fat lose and still felt its presents for at least a month after. Also my diet crashed as soon as I stopped because it was Christmas and didn't gain that much fat but still a little.
> I totally trust my supplier as he is big in the game and has reputation to uphold, but there is always a chance something could slip through as you are only as good as your suppliers word.
> So really just a post to say I've had and seen good results also if any one has used this I would be really interested in your results thanks


its just more generic crap in fancy boxes.
it has nothing to do with your source they arent making it, and there are tons of people who insist all the generics are real cause there is a fortune to be made. 
I know a source that carries rips. He said he knows they are garbage but customers that insist on them cause they are great. So he carries them. A source is a business.

----------


## redz

> I know a source that carries rips. He said he knows they are garbage but customers that insist on them cause they are great. So he carries them. A source is a business.


Still wondering what peptide they are using in that stuff.

----------


## The Buckerlater

So your saying this stuff is fake? If so how can I tell and find the real stuff??

----------


## gixxerboy1

> So your saying this stuff is fake? If so how can I tell and find the real stuff??


if its not a brand you can get in a pharmacy then dont buy it

----------


## The Buckerlater

I live in London the UK and they don't sell this stuff over the counter! I'm very sceptical and even allowing for the placebo effect I still feel that this helped but obviously I'm slightly concerned!
What should I feel? I've just started again after a two month break from hgh I'm currently doing 4ius ED 5 on 2 off I'm not feeling anything yet, 
Can you tell me what I should feel and approx when? I'm going to pin it any way.
What else could it be that gave me so many results before I literally could train every day I felt full of beans all the time my people started commenting on my skin, also found it really easy to cut up I've never been able to cut this easy before as I'm not a pro

----------


## gixxerboy1

> I live in London the UK and they don't sell this stuff over the counter! I'm very sceptical and even allowing for the placebo effect I still feel that this helped but obviously I'm slightly concerned!
> What should I feel? I've just started again after a two month break from hgh I'm currently doing 4ius ED 5 on 2 off I'm not feeling anything yet, 
> Can you tell me what I should feel and approx when? I'm going to pin it any way.
> What else could it be that gave me so many results before I literally could train every day I felt full of beans all the time my people started commenting on my skin, also found it really easy to cut up I've never been able to cut this easy before as I'm not a pro


could be peptides, some have been cortico steroids really can be anything in them
I dont mean go buy it in a pharmacy. But if its not a brand they sell by prescription someplace i wouldnt use it

----------


## kaptainkeezy04

http://qkme.me/3t9yvd

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Attachment 134610
> 
> Has anybody used this actual product from china it by a company called ORIGIN pic in closed I've used it before for 5 months with great results along side AAS I had to stop for three month due to finance but feel I have retained a lot of the fat lose and still felt its presents for at least a month after. Also my diet crashed as soon as I stopped because it was Christmas and didn't gain that much fat but still a little.
> I totally trust my supplier as he is big in the game and has reputation to uphold, but there is always a chance something could slip through as you are only as good as your suppliers word.
> So really just a post to say I've had and seen good results also if any one has used this I would be really interested in your results thanks





> its just more generic crap in fancy boxes.
> it has nothing to do with your source they arent making it, and there are tons of people who insist all the generics are real cause there is a fortune to be made. 
> I know a source that carries rips. He said he knows they are garbage but customers that insist on them cause they are great. So he carries them. A source is a business.


Yup generic crap is right! These companies selling this junk now are private labeling! LOL - People just keep buying this junk so the mfgs. are rolling with the suckers. I say take real pharm grade and you will see the difference. Also, it may have been the AAS that was giving you the results. As Gix said it is a business and when the customers are calling for it, well may as well or they will go elsewhere. Getting real pharm grade HGH is not anywhere near as easy as obtaining quality UGL injectable gear. Most of these SALESMAN can not obtain real HGH. Real pharm HGH will work without anything else. The line when confronted about legitimacy is "Everyone Loves this stuff".

----------


## The Buckerlater

What are the best names to look out for?

----------


## Triposinator

*Please be warned that what you posted is not allowed on our forum...

Read through our rules to update yourself before you post again!


Respect

*admin**

----------


## kaptainkeezy04

:Hmmmm:

----------


## Triposinator

If your can get an Rx for Hgh then go for it. Anything sourced from China has very high probability of being fake. 

I have run 8 iu of Hgh back before Jintropin went fake. I really couldn't recommend Hgh based upon my experience. Waste of huge $$.

----------


## The Buckerlater

> Please be warned that what you posted is not allowed on our forum...
> 
> Read through our rules to update yourself before you post again!
> 
> Respect
> 
> *admin*


Ooppss!!! Sorry

----------


## Xtralarg

> Ooppss!!! Sorry


Admin wasn't referring to your post. He or she edited triposinators post because it was racist.

----------


## ImpeccableChaos

> So you guys are saying all "hyge" HGH is fake? My online source has hyge HGH out of China and someone left a review saying it was legit and that they confirmed via blood tests.....do you think that was a fake review or???
> 
> 
> I'm just trying to find some legit HGH to help heal my shoulder.....


Can someone speak to this?. I have some ********** from com.cn and I want to know if its real too. I just had blood drawn today and will have results in a couple days.

----------


## slimshady01

> One thing as funny as this sounds is that one of my hgh orders of 500iu from Ukraine was seized by customs, I received a letter today informing me that it was hgh. I'll scan the letter and post it here when I get home from work. In a way it reassured me that what I'm ordering is legit.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner




Did they reship?

----------


## MedicineMan7

Test, this is a test  :Smilie:

----------


## MedicineMan7

I am new to this site and thought I would say a tad about myself and ask a few questions, actually lots of questions.

I am 59 and have taken Saizen for 5 years. I used the 8.8mg vials. I started at .5 IU, went to 1 IU, then 1.5 IU and stayed at 2 IU 7 days per week. While taking 2 IU 7 days per week, my Igf1 levels ranged from 179 to 400. I tried 3 IU for a short while and my Igf1 was 502. All these readings were from Saizen. I used Quest Labs. Their range is 86 to 220 for my age. I like the idea of maybe striving for the 500 level again. I just had a blood draw done on March 2nd using Hypertropin, 2 IU per day. Will know soon my Igf1 level. 

I had gotten scripts from my doc. and my insurance paid for it for 5 years. COOL MAN  :Smilie:  They finally stopped paying. Bums! I then got another script and shopped pharmacies for the best price. It was just too expensive. I finally studied the web and was going to buy Jintropin but ended up buying 5 kits of their Hypertropin instead (yes from China). Each kit had 10 vials of 12 IU / 4mg each. 

'Not sure' if this means anything or not, but my Seizen had LESS powder in the vials than my Hypertropin does. The Seizen mixed up easier too. I hardly had to wiggle the vial at all to totally mix it up. In fact for the most part, as soon as I was done injecting the water, it was already mixed up. The hypertropin has to be swirled awhile for it to mix. Also, the Seizen did not have a vacuum in the vials. The Hypertropin vials most definitely have a vacuum. When I put the needle in with the water, it sucks it out of the needle. Hot sure if this is a negative thing or not. 
••• Any opinions re this? 

My reason for doing hgh is for anti-aging. I am new on this forum and thread, but if you are comfortable, I am interested in finding a source of pharma grade hgh. If possible, I would prefer the brands that pharmacies 'actually sell'. Saizen 8.8 mg would be nice  :Smilie:  If I were to buy China hgh again, I think it would probably have to be Jintropin. Depending on the source etc., I can get a docs. script if needed. Obviously price is a big concern of mine! If it was not, I would just take a script to a local pharmacy and be done with it. Done deal! Must be nice to be rich! Re the Serostim hgh, I think the company that makes this also make Saizen. 
••• Is this true? 
Serostim is for aids patients, so perhaps it extra high quality? 

From what I figure out from this thread, no one can actually test the hgh itself to see if it is "100%" real. 
••• Is this true? 
Sgt. Hartman on 04-01-2012, 07:44 PM#851 posted a very detailed post re this. It stressed that there currently isn't a proper method of testing a recombinant protein based drug for "biological activity". In other words it could test to be pure 191a a GH and have absolutely none of the desired effect when administered. 
••• So, is there any test one can have done to know it is the real deal????? 

••• Is this 4 step testing strategy 'about the best' one can do????: 
1 - Do a pregnancy test on it to rule out hcg ( I did this) 
2 - Have it tested either by SDS-PAGE analysis and MALDI-TOF analysis "to test if it is real hgh" 
3 - Do a IGF1 blood test ( I did this March 2nd)
4 - Do a hgh blood serum test 3 hours after injection in 'an attempt' to interpret if my hgh is "biologically active".

•••Re SDS-PAGE analysis and MALDI-TOF analysis, which is better?

••• Does anyone know where / what lab in the US one can have these done?

••• Does anyone know what a ELISA antibody test is?


If my 4 step testing strategy is not going to cut it, it seems to me that the ONLY choice one has is to get a script and pay up the nose for hgh at the local pharmacy. Or to only buy brands that pharmacies actually sell and to make sure these are not from ugl.

Re my interest in getting my hgh tested, the web site I bought my 5 kits from emailed me and wrote the following to me: 
There are two tests you can do:

a) You could find an independent lab of your choice, which is capable of testing for real 191 amino acid sequence somatropin (HGH) and have a sample of our product tested. We will pay for the testing (refund your money which you paid for the testing or send more of our product as compensation). We would also like to get the lab result paper so we can publish it as reference for other people who ask for such proof of quality.

b) You could find a lab in your area which is capable to test your blood for HGH serum. Have a test done before taking the HGH and remember the result. Then take 4IU of HGH and 3 hours later have another HGH serum test done. The results will show a huge increase.

Best Regards,
X-Y-Z

Sometimes people on here will ask someone to PM them. 
••• Does this mean to personal message them? 
••• Can someone explain to me what this is and how to do it?

----------


## ImpeccableChaos

I got my results back from Labcorps. My Blood serum level was 13.8, blood was drawn 3hrs and 20 mins after injecting 8ius SC in naval area. This was quite a bit lower than others had gotten. I read that a score of double the iu amount was closer to reality with HGH. And if that is the case then it was fairly close. I wish I had done a igf-1 test also. What do you guys think? Should I retest with 10 ius and get the igf-1 test also? Should I inject IM instead? BTW the serial number checked out on the .com.cn website and these are the 200iu kits with 25 8iu vials.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> I am new to this site and thought I would say a tad about myself and ask a few questions, actually lots of questions.
> 
> I am 59 and have taken Saizen for 5 years. I used the 8.8mg vials. I started at .5 IU, went to 1 IU, then 1.5 IU and stayed at 2 IU 7 days per week. While taking 2 IU 7 days per week, my Igf1 levels ranged from 179 to 400. I tried 3 IU for a short while and my Igf1 was 502. All these readings were from Saizen. I used Quest Labs. Their range is 86 to 220 for my age. I like the idea of maybe striving for the 500 level again. I just had a blood draw done on March 2nd using Hypertropin, 2 IU per day. Will know soon my Igf1 level. 
> 
> I had gotten scripts from my doc. and my insurance paid for it for 5 years. COOL MAN  They finally stopped paying. Bums! I then got another script and shopped pharmacies for the best price. It was just too expensive. I finally studied the web and was going to buy Jintropin but ended up buying 5 kits of their Hypertropin instead (yes from China). Each kit had 10 vials of 12 IU / 4mg each. 
> 
> 'Not sure' if this means anything or not, but my Seizen had LESS powder in the vials than my Hypertropin does. The Seizen mixed up easier too. I hardly had to wiggle the vial at all to totally mix it up. In fact for the most part, as soon as I was done injecting the water, it was already mixed up. The hypertropin has to be swirled awhile for it to mix. Also, the Seizen did not have a vacuum in the vials. The Hypertropin vials most definitely have a vacuum. When I put the needle in with the water, it sucks it out of the needle. Hot sure if this is a negative thing or not. 
>  Any opinions re this? 
> 
> ...


That's a hell of a first post bud, welcome to the forum. 

Yes pm is private message which should be activated on your account after you have about 50 quality posts so stick around and enjoy  :Smilie:

----------


## testluva

> I am new to this site and thought I would say a tad about myself and ask a few questions, actually lots of questions.
> 
> I am 59 and have taken Saizen for 5 years. I used the 8.8mg vials. I started at .5 IU, went to 1 IU, then 1.5 IU and stayed at 2 IU 7 days per week. While taking 2 IU 7 days per week, my Igf1 levels ranged from 179 to 400. I tried 3 IU for a short while and my Igf1 was 502. All these readings were from Saizen. I used Quest Labs. Their range is 86 to 220 for my age. I like the idea of maybe striving for the 500 level again. I just had a blood draw done on March 2nd using Hypertropin, 2 IU per day. Will know soon my Igf1 level.
> 
> I had gotten scripts from my doc. and my insurance paid for it for 5 years. COOL MAN  They finally stopped paying. Bums! I then got another script and shopped pharmacies for the best price. It was just too expensive. I finally studied the web and was going to buy Jintropin but ended up buying 5 kits of their Hypertropin instead (yes from China). Each kit had 10 vials of 12 IU / 4mg each.
> 
> 'Not sure' if this means anything or not, but my Seizen had LESS powder in the vials than my Hypertropin does. The Seizen mixed up easier too. I hardly had to wiggle the vial at all to totally mix it up. In fact for the most part, as soon as I was done injecting the water, it was already mixed up. The hypertropin has to be swirled awhile for it to mix. Also, the Seizen did not have a vacuum in the vials. The Hypertropin vials most definitely have a vacuum. When I put the needle in with the water, it sucks it out of the needle. Hot sure if this is a negative thing or not.
> ooo Any opinions re this?
> 
> ...


Great post. Did you fast when doing BW?

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> I am new to this site and thought I would say a tad about myself and ask a few questions, actually lots of questions.
> 
> I am 59 and have taken Saizen for 5 years. I used the 8.8mg vials. I started at .5 IU, went to 1 IU, then 1.5 IU and stayed at 2 IU 7 days per week. While taking 2 IU 7 days per week, my Igf1 levels ranged from 179 to 400. I tried 3 IU for a short while and my Igf1 was 502. All these readings were from Saizen. I used Quest Labs. Their range is 86 to 220 for my age. I like the idea of maybe striving for the 500 level again. I just had a blood draw done on March 2nd using Hypertropin, 2 IU per day. Will know soon my Igf1 level. 
> 
> I had gotten scripts from my doc. and my insurance paid for it for 5 years. COOL MAN  They finally stopped paying. Bums! I then got another script and shopped pharmacies for the best price. It was just too expensive. I finally studied the web and was going to buy Jintropin but ended up buying 5 kits of their Hypertropin instead (yes from China). Each kit had 10 vials of 12 IU / 4mg each. 
> 
> 'Not sure' if this means anything or not, but my Seizen had LESS powder in the vials than my Hypertropin does. The Seizen mixed up easier too. I hardly had to wiggle the vial at all to totally mix it up. In fact for the most part, as soon as I was done injecting the water, it was already mixed up. The hypertropin has to be swirled awhile for it to mix. Also, the Seizen did not have a vacuum in the vials. The Hypertropin vials most definitely have a vacuum. When I put the needle in with the water, it sucks it out of the needle. Hot sure if this is a negative thing or not. 
> ••• Any opinions re this? 
> 
> ...


Hello and welcome to the board! I would not shake or swirl HGH at all to mix it up. Just slowly angle your bottle and continue rolling it. Or lay it on the side and roll it. HGH should not mix instantly when you inject Bac water in it. Also, i would suggest angling your needle in the hgh bottle and letting bac water roll down the side. 
As far as an hcg test, i don't think anyone is counterfeiting using hcg anymore. Save your money on the pregnancy test. The counterfeit hgh is made with various peptides. It would be well worth your wallet and health to read this thread over if your taking HGH AS ANTI-AGING as i do, because you are probably going to use it as long as you can afford to. Actually it is a must read!! I would not be buying any JIN from china. I would not buy anything myself from there. Here is a link to info on my bad experience with Jin from China. http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t=#post6374401

This link also has some very good posts to help you be cautious about chinese HGH. 
You will not be obtaining information on this forum as to where you can buy HGH other than from your Doctor. If you do not have a very trusted and reliable source for HGH, I would buy from a doc. In the long run you will pay less for real pharm grade as opposed to buying junk at the gym from someone. Taking HGH for anti-aging is to improve your health etc. Buying fake will do the opposite and the damage could be severe depending on what you get. This is just a word of caution, but do what you feel comfortable with. 
Best of luck!

----------


## ImpeccableChaos

Hello EasyDoesIt, I am also using HGH for Anti Aging like you. Unfortunately I could only get Chinese Hyge's. I have been on for 5-6 weeks and only feel mild side effects. I can only hope it is legit. I did do a serum test with a score of 13.8ng after 8ius of product. I assume you are on pharm hgh, how long have you been on and what do you feel and how do you look? I am going to try and get some real pharm when I find a source.
edit: i am on 2ius a day no day off

----------


## AnabolicDoc

Edit: Please note that I refer to a LEGIT HGH PRESCRIPTION. Below is help in trying to find a legitimate pharmacy to dispense GH with legitimate prescription for an inexpensive price. Please don't PM me asking me about this. I was just trying to help those who are looking for a inexpensive pharmacy to fill their script.

If you go to the Magic Foundation website, you can get help in finding an inexpensive pharmacy to fill your legit hgh prescription. The website is for parents of children who have various indications for hgh treatment. I was looking for one in my area and I couldn't believe the price discrepancy. A pharmacy called Ocean Breeze Pharmacy in Staten Island, NY has great prices. I asked them which were the least expensive if not covered by insurance. They said Tev-tropin and I think Omnitrope were the least expensive and the same price. I don't remember the exact number, but it was about half of the best price I found searching online. They have a website, so u can do a quick Google search to find them. I know they deliver, but not sure how far. Call and ask for their specialty medication dept and you can ask ask your questions. They were very nice.

*I have no financial or any other interest in Ocean Breeze Pharmacy or the Magic Foundation.

----------


## testluva

> If you go to the Magic Foundation website, you can get help in finding an inexpensive pharmacy to fill your legit hgh prescription. The website is for parents of children who have various indications for hgh treatment. I was looking for one in my area and I couldn't believe the price discrepancy. A pharmacy called Ocean Breeze Pharmacy in Staten Island, NY has great prices. I asked them which were the least expensive if not covered by insurance. They said Tev-tropin and I think Omnitrope were the least expensive and the same price. I don't remember the exact number, but it was about half of the best price I found searching online. They have a website, so u can do a quick Google search to find them. I know they deliver, but not sure how far. Call and ask for their specialty medication dept and you can ask ask your questions. They were very nice.
> 
> *I have no financial or any other interest in Ocean Breeze Pharmacy or the Magic Foundation.


Hey bros don't even bother calling them. They require certification from Endo only and copies of BW. Yes very cheap per 5mg vial but unless you have a Endo doctor with copies of your GH test results, there not going to fill Rx. Even if you have a legit RX from a HRT clinic, you will need documentation of your low GH from an Endo. They said only Endo's certification will be accepted.

----------


## human project

> Hey bros don't even bother calling them. They require certification from Endo only and copies of BW. Yes very cheap per 5mg vial but unless you have a Endo doctor with copies of your GH test there not going to fill RX.


So I guess the real question becomes where to find the right endo..... Any help??

----------


## AnabolicDoc

> Hey bros don't even bother calling them. They require certification from Endo only and copies of BW. Yes very cheap per 5mg vial but unless you have a Endo doctor with copies of your GH test there not going to fill RX.


I very clearly stated "LEGIT GH PRESCRIPTION".

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Hello EasyDoesIt, I am also using HGH for Anti Aging like you. Unfortunately I could only get Chinese Hyge's. I have been on for 5-6 weeks and only feel mild side effects. I can only hope it is legit. I did do a serum test with a score of 13.8ng after 8ius of product. I assume you are on pharm hgh, how long have you been on and what do you feel and how do you look? I am going to try and get some real pharm when I find a source.
> edit: i am on 2ius a day no day off


I copied this information from an erier post with similar question.
My results based on only use of 2-3 units 5 on 2 off. Real pharm grade HGH improves skin at which being 58 is noticeable to me. Rapid hair growth and healthier hair again at my age is very noticeable. Fat loss at only an average eating plan takes you back to younger years and you go, wow i'm not even eating good and maintaining muscle mass while not gaining body fat without much training. Long term have been muscle density continues to improve, hardness, fat loss. I will be able to guage sleeping better now that my schedule is not so screwed up. So as we know after even 40 it is harder to develop muscle mass let alone maintain it. But dedication, proper training and rest will make it happen even without hgh. HGH increases and improves everything at a much faster rate and you will see in the mirror physical differences and for me i see vascularity and ability to keep my body-fat down. This does not happen overnight. I truly believe it does reverse the aging process in many ways. It is hard to explain that to someone in there 20’s or 30’s. I know the facts state that 2iu’s will not increase muscle mass, but I disagree based on someone who is training properly and eating right. I personally am predisposed to being fat.
Here is a link to the page with more info on my post
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t=#post6374838

----------


## ImpeccableChaos

> I copied this information from an erier post with similar question.
> My results based on only use of 2-3 units 5 on 2 off. Real pharm grade HGH improves skin at which being 58 is noticeable to me. Rapid hair growth and healthier hair again at my age is very noticeable. Fat loss at only an average eating plan takes you back to younger years and you go, wow i'm not even eating good and maintaining muscle mass while not gaining body fat without much training. Long term have been muscle density continues to improve, hardness, fat loss. I will be able to guage sleeping better now that my schedule is not so screwed up. So as we know after even 40 it is harder to develop muscle mass let alone maintain it. But dedication, proper training and rest will make it happen even without 
> hgh. HGH increases and improves everything at a much faster rate and you will see in the mirror physical differences and for me i see vascularity and ability to keep my body-fat down. This does not happen overnight. I truly believe it does reverse the aging process in many ways. It is hard to explain that to someone in there 20’s or 30’s. I know the facts state that 2iu’s will not increase muscle mass, but I disagree based on someone who is training properly and eating right. I personally am predisposed to being fat.
> Here is a link to the page with more info on my post
> http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t=#post6374838


Thank You, How long did it take for you to truly feel it was worth it? And what is the longest you have been ( on ) without a break and do you recommend a break in use? And lastly should I take 2 days off, I just use 2ius ed. I think I am hijacking but I can't PM yet. Sorry.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Thank You, How long did it take for you to truly feel it was worth it? And what is the longest you have been ( on ) without a break and do you recommend a break in use? And lastly should I take 2 days off, I just use 2ius ed. I think I am hijacking but I can't PM yet. Sorry.


Felt it around 3 to 4 weeks. If it's truly pharm i think you will also know in 3 to 4 weeks. Also, if you kick it up to three units you will see a big jump physically, that may also validate your quality. I do not have water retention either. I have gone a long time. Not sure off hand. I would take the two days off just to allow your natural a chance to kick back in. Some anti aging docs state you can go 20 months and take a 3 month break. I am going to take a break after i finish the kit i have. Probably not a bad idea to take up to 3 months off.

----------


## Fit N Fun

> ••• So, is there any test one can have done to know it is the real deal?????
> 
> ••• Is this 4 step testing strategy 'about the best' one can do????:
> 1 - Do a pregnancy test on it to rule out hcg ( I did this)
> 2 - Have it tested either by SDS-PAGE analysis and MALDI-TOF analysis "to test if it is real hgh"
> 3 - Do a IGF1 blood test ( I did this March 2nd)
> 4 - Do a hgh blood serum test 3 hours after injection in 'an attempt' to interpret if my hgh is "biologically active".
> 
> •••Re SDS-PAGE analysis and MALDI-TOF analysis, which is better?
> ...


MedicineMan,

Welcome to the forum.

You will find that most people on this forum like to talk lots about anecdotal evidence rather than go to a lab for proof of legitimacy.

It was me that had the SDS-PAGE analysis and MALDI-TOF analysis carried out, this was done at a University lab in the UK.

Google should help you find a lab, but when I looked, University labs were in my experience much cheaper to use, the above tests are also Mass Spectrometer tests, so you can check that out too when searching for a lab. The cost for me was under $200 for the test and showed that my HGH was pure.

The only way I could find out if the HGH was active was to do an IGF-1 test which was confirmed using a blood spot test.

I am the same age as you and from memory got 424 ng/ml IGF-1 from 4iu taken 4 ½ days a week.

My HGH was imported from China, but has obvious risks in terms of handling and storage that will not be as good as prescription HGH.

Nobody can disagree with the statements made by many that prescription HGH is best, but for me, I was unable to source any which left me looking at the alternatives,

So for me the only way to minimise the risk of being scammed and damaging my health was to have lab tests done.

I had a few months off and am currently back on 4iu per day taken in the morning before 30 mins fasted cardio.

I had an IGF-1 blood test done before I went back on HGH and will do another IGF-1 test again soon to satisfy myself that my HGH is as it should be.

----------


## human project

> MedicineMan,
> 
> Welcome to the forum.
> 
> You will find that most people on this forum like to talk lots about anecdotal evidence rather than go to a lab for proof of legitimacy.
> 
> It was me that had the SDS-PAGE analysis and MALDI-TOF analysis carried out, this was done at a University lab in the UK.
> 
> Google should help you find a lab, but when I looked, University labs were in my experience much cheaper to use, the above tests are also Mass Spectrometer tests, so you can check that out too when searching for a lab. The cost for me was under $200 for the test and showed that my HGH was pure.
> ...


Please be sure to post your results.... What brand were you using again?

----------


## Fit N Fun

There are strict rules on this site about providing links, so cannot tell you the manufacturer of my HGH 

For IGF-1 testing you can Google "IGF-1" blood spot test and you will find some companies that offer this service. I use a US testing company where you post your blood sample to them for analysis.

Surprisingly my IGF-1 off cycle result is 171 ng/ml which is high for my age, but is significantly less than the 424 ng/ml I got when on HGH cycle.

The 5 days on + 2 days off is the best routine for maintaining your own HGH production. I have seen official studies where they compared the results 2 years after coming off a 5on 2off system versus 7 day a week, the 5on 2off participants were in significantly better shape.

----------


## swithuk

> There are strict rules on this site about providing links, so cannot tell you the manufacturer of my HGH 
> 
> For IGF-1 testing you can Google "IGF-1" blood spot test and you will find some companies that offer this service. I use a US testing company where you post your blood sample to them for analysis.
> 
> Surprisingly my IGF-1 off cycle result is 171 ng/ml which is high for my age, but is significantly less than the 424 ng/ml I got when on HGH cycle.
> 
> The 5 days on + 2 days off is the best routine for maintaining your own HGH production. I have seen official studies where they compared the results 2 years after coming off a 5on 2off system versus 7 day a week, the 5on 2off participants were in significantly better shape.


thats interesting ... so its possible to get these tests done in the u.k at a reasonable price ? just call up a local uni ? 
as i understand it its fine to mention what brand your taking .....

----------


## AnabolicDoc

> There are strict rules on this site about providing links, so cannot tell you the manufacturer of my HGH
> 
> For IGF-1 testing you can Google "IGF-1" blood spot test and you will find some companies that offer this service. I use a US testing company where you post your blood sample to them for analysis.
> 
> Surprisingly my IGF-1 off cycle result is 171 ng/ml which is high for my age, but is significantly less than the 424 ng/ml I got when on HGH cycle.
> 
> The 5 days on + 2 days off is the best routine for maintaining your own HGH production. I have seen official studies where they compared the results 2 years after coming off a 5on 2off system versus 7 day a week, the 5on 2off participants were in significantly better shape.


According to the educational part of this site, eod dosing is supposed to be the most effective when the same weekly dose is used.

----------


## swithuk

im pinning e.d . should i be worried ?

----------


## AnabolicDoc

No. Read different sources and decide what u think is best. There's no approved protocol for GH administration in ppl wo GH deficiency

----------


## swithuk

ok . thanks

----------


## ImpeccableChaos

> Felt it around 3 to 4 weeks. If it's truly pharm i think you will also know in 3 to 4 weeks. Also, if you kick it up to three units you will see a big jump physically, that may also validate your quality. I do not have water retention either. I have gone a long time. Not sure off hand. I would take the two days off just to allow your natural a chance to kick back in. Some anti aging docs state you can go 20 months and take a 3 month break. I am going to take a break after i finish the kit i have. Probably not a bad idea to take up to 3 months off.


3-4 weeks, wow that's pretty fast. I felt the tingling and swollen fingers almost immediately, but as for healing and better appearance and overall well being at least on the generic IF it is good might take longer? I think I will take your advice and take 2 days off each week at least for a while. The swelling in my fingers is pretty bad at 2ius. I have a serum result of 13.8 with 8ius SC. I am going to retest in a bit and get the IGF-1 test also. I will post the results then.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> 3-4 weeks, wow that's pretty fast. I felt the tingling and swollen fingers almost immediately, but as for healing and better appearance and overall well being at least on the generic IF it is good might take longer? I think I will take your advice and take 2 days off each week at least for a while. The swelling in my fingers is pretty bad at 2ius. I have a serum result of 13.8 with 8ius SC. I am going to retest in a bit and get the IGF-1 test also. I will post the results then.


Looks like you are pretty close to my age, i noticed my skin looking better in the 3 to 4 weeks time and healthier hair. I think results will vary for each individual. I had stopped hGh for quite some time due to my bad experience with generics from China, so when i was able to obtain Pharm grade and started back up the skin and hair for me were the first to show up. I feel the hgh is long term and you continually notice hardness and density. People that see my photos now and 20 years ago, say wow you look more cut up then you did back then, back then i trained harder also. There is another method of injecting 3 days on and 1 off and i tried it for awhile, but no real difference for me. also, it is easier to remember 5 on and 2 off. When the dosage is 2ius the effects are not so dramatic as 4 or 5 iu's of pharm. I have stated before that i notice body fat reduction pretty quick when kicking it to 3iu's. Generally people that train real hard are somewhat fanatical, but my first Martial arts instructor said that you have to be fanatical to be good. Mediocrity just does not take you to the next level. Problem with that mentality is, it can get you in trouble if you get obsessive with HGH and other supplements. 
I have to look at longevity and affordability. I really would love to do 6ius a day along with a very hard training regimen for at least 4 months, but it isn't affordable to me. It's one of those, "Boy i would just like to see what i can produce with that." LOL! Ten years ago if someone would have told me i would be taking testosterone and HGH i would have said no way, but being vein and hanging on to youth changed my thoughts. I also realized after starting on supplements, made me realize that most of the people i knew using were not very educated as to what they were doing. I started doing more research and this site has been a great source of information for me. IMO "This site is an Educational Reference" 
I believe moderation is key to longevity. I am glad that i did not start at a young age as that fanatical personality may have put me in trouble. I may have went off track their, but since we are both around the same age i thought i would throw my 2 cents in.

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## thisAngelBites

> I have seen official studies where they compared the results 2 years after coming off a 5on 2off system versus 7 day a week, the 5on 2off participants were in significantly better shape.


Hey, do you still have a link to think by any chance? Would love to check it out.

----------


## Fit N Fun

> Hey, do you still have a link to think by any chance? Would love to check it out.


The study was done on two groups of children that were on HGH for about two years, the follow up to the study was a couple of year later and concluded that 7 day a week HGH injections permanently reduced the natural HGH production, whereas the 5 on 2 off appeared to have no long term detrimental effect.

It was several years ago that I read the study, so apologies I do not have any links, but I found the study's using Google.

----------


## thisAngelBites

Thanks, those bits of info might make it easier to find.

----------


## MedicineMan7

ImpeccableChaos recently had a blood serum level done and did 8IU SQ 3 hours pre draw. Results were 13.8. What are the thoughts out there re:

 How many IUs should one pin prior to the blood draw to best solidify the "INTENT" of doing this test?

My definition of "intent" is to try to verify if ones hgh is real!!

 How many hours prior to such draw should one pin this quantity of hgh? 

 I know that ImpeccableChaos went to Labcorps, but is this test from Quest the same test?? 
Growth Hormone - Code 83003 
Link that describes this test - 
I had to erase this link as the spam software won't let me post it. What bull shit!
Please go to Quest's web site and punch in this code to see if it is the same test. Thanks!


"If" the above copy and paste worked, a reference range chart will appear. It states that an adult's range for test code 83003 is less than or equal to 10.0 ng/mL. 
 So, if I were to pin only say around 2 or 3 IU prior to this test, am I likely to get a result of less than 10?

 Is the reason to pin say 6IU or so prior to test, so that ones results will be "higher" than 10, supposedly verifying that it is real hgh?

 Should the results be somewhat a ratio of 1:2? 
What I mean is, if I pin 6 IU just prior to test, should my results (if real) be 12, twice the amount? 
If I pin 8 IU just prior to test, should my results (if real) be 16, twice the amount?

----------


## MedicineMan7

•••Re test IGF1 Binding Protein 3, from Quest, Code 34458, does any one know how to interpret the results?

Questdiagnostics.com describes this test. 

Just had it done and I got 5.6 with a range of 3.4 to 6.9 mg/L. I am taking 2 IU Hypertropin 7 days a week.

----------


## MedicineMan7

Yes, I fasted. Took draw at 9 am without breakfast. Drank water though.

----------


## MedicineMan7

> Great post. Did you fast when doing BW?


Yes, I fasted. Took draw at 9 am without breakfast. Drank water though.

----------


## AnabolicDoc

> oooRe test IGF1 Binding Protein 3, from Quest, Code 34458, does any one know how to interpret the results?
> 
> Questdiagnostics.com describes this test.
> 
> Just had it done and I got 5.6 with a range of 3.4 to 6.9 mg/L. I am taking 2 IU Hypertropin 7 days a week.


It seems like you have a normal within range result RE IGF1-BP3. 

Regarding how to verify your HGH, I've seen posts here and elsewhere that claim that a GC/MS test exists to directly examine your HGH quality/purity? I don't know if this is true or even possible. I posted one method that i think should be accurate. Just do a search for HGH Dose Response Curve posted by me and you should get it.

----------


## MedicineMan7

> Please be sure to post your results.... What brand were you using again?


My IGF1 level tested to be 320 with a range of 50 - 317 at Quest

Taking Hypertropin, 2 IU daily

----------


## marcus300

If you read the whole thread you will see that it isn't that simple has getting blood work done. .They put on igf and other peptides to knock bw results out
Don't trust Chinese generics

----------


## MedicineMan7

> It seems like you have a normal within range result RE IGF1-BP3. 
> 
> Regarding how to verify your HGH, I've seen posts here and elsewhere that claim that a GC/MS test exists to directly examine your HGH quality/purity? I don't know if this is true or even possible. I posted one method that i think should be accurate. Just do a search for HGH Dose Response Curve posted by me and you should get it.


When you say to do a serch for HGH Dose Response Curve are you suggesting to google it or to find one of your older posts on here?

What happens if one clicks on the "Blog this Post" ???

----------


## AnabolicDoc

> When you say to do a serch for HGH Dose Response Curve are you suggesting to google it or to find one of your older posts on here?
> 
> What happens if one clicks on the "Blog this Post" ???


Look for it on the search engine here. 

I have no idea about that function.

----------


## ImpeccableChaos

> If you read the whole thread you will see that it isn't that simple has getting blood work done. .They put on igf and other peptides to knock bw results out
> Don't trust Chinese generics


I understand, but how can the Chinese fool the hgh blood serum test? If I pin 10ius and an igf-1 test after a few weeks of use shouldn't that confirm? Assuming the blood serum test returns about double the dose taken three hours later.

----------


## ImpeccableChaos

> Looks like you are pretty close to my age, i noticed my skin looking better in the 3 to 4 weeks time and healthier hair. I think results will vary for each individual. I had stopped hGh for quite some time due to my bad experience with generics from China, so when i was able to obtain Pharm grade and started back up the skin and hair for me were the first to show up. I feel the hgh is long term and you continually notice hardness and density. People that see my photos now and 20 years ago, say wow you look more cut up then you did back then, back then i trained harder also. There is another method of injecting 3 days on and 1 off and i tried it for awhile, but no real difference for me. also, it is easier to remember 5 on and 2 off. When the dosage is 2ius the effects are not so dramatic as 4 or 5 iu's of pharm. I have stated before that i notice body fat reduction pretty quick when kicking it to 3iu's. Generally people that train real hard are somewhat fanatical, but my first Martial arts instructor said that you have to be fanatical to be good. Mediocrity just does not take you to the next level. Problem with that mentality is, it can get you in trouble if you get obsessive with HGH and other supplements. 
> I have to look at longevity and affordability. I really would love to do 6ius a day along with a very hard training regimen for at least 4 months, but it isn't affordable to me. It's one of those, "Boy i would just like to see what i can produce with that." LOL! Ten years ago if someone would have told me i would be taking testosterone and HGH i would have said no way, but being vein and hanging on to youth changed my thoughts. I also realized after starting on supplements, made me realize that most of the people i knew using were not very educated as to what they were doing. I started doing more research and this site has been a great source of information for me. IMO "This site is an Educational Reference" 
> I believe moderation is key to longevity. I am glad that i did not start at a young age as that fanatical personality may have put me in trouble. I may have went off track their, but since we are both around the same age i thought i would throw my 2 cents in.


Thank You so much! I had to chuckle about what you said about 10 years ago. I would have laughed if anyone said I would be using Testosterone and HGH also and your comment about vanity, well let me just say I understand. lol The reason I started using Test was because of lifestyle decisions when I was younger. I was a very heavy drinker and destroyed my ability to produce natural test so I am fortunate to get mine from my primary care doc. I have been sober for 11 years TODAY! Thank goodness, and I take much better care of myself now. So I know my Testosterone is good so now just to make sure the hgh I get is also. You mentioned that I would really see a difference with a little bigger dose and I may try it but as I mentioned earlier the swelling in my fingers is some what painful, I was hoping it would go away but not yet after 6-7 weeks. So I am going to retest soon and add the IGF-1 and see what I get. It's not that expensive here in the states. cheers

----------


## marcus300

> I understand, but how can the Chinese fool the hgh blood serum test? If I pin 10ius and an igf-1 test after a few weeks of use shouldn't that confirm? Assuming the blood serum test returns about double the dose taken three hours later.


They can by putting igf and other peptides in to fool the test, they also have other chemicals which I am sure we have no idea about. Read the whole thread its here for a reason there is massive concerns over Chinese generics - stay well clear and stick with pharm grade hgh......

You'll see throughout this thread that the hgh blood serum test/igf blood test are not 100% accurate when dealing with the generics - the only test you need to be doing is testing if the hormone is active and you can't do that so take all this hassle and stress away and stop wasting money on generics and go with pharm grade, that's my advice....

Please read the whole thread, you will everything evolve into The Chinese cant be trusted

----------


## ImpeccableChaos

Thanks Marcus, But whatb the hell do I do with 400ius of h y g e 's. I have used them for 6 weeks now and my test did show elevated hgh? If an igf-1 test came back in the 400's would you still be convinced they were bunk? And please don't take offense marcus I am just so disappointed that this would be the case. And can you tell me about how much it would cost to run pharm grade for 5 days a week, approximate? I paid about $2 an iu for my generic.

----------


## swithuk

> Thanks Marcus, But whatb the hell do I do with 400ius of h y g e 's. I have used them for 6 weeks now and my test did show elevated hgh? If an igf-1 test came back in the 400's would you still be convinced they were bunk? And please don't take offense marcus I am just so disappointed that this would be the case. And can you tell me about how much it would cost to run pharm grade for 5 days a week, approximate? I paid about $2 an iu for my generic.


Everyone made this mistake and gone through this process

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Thanks Marcus, But whatb the hell do I do with 400ius of h y g e 's. I have used them for 6 weeks now and my test did show elevated hgh? If an igf-1 test came back in the 400's would you still be convinced they were bunk? And please don't take offense marcus I am just so disappointed that this would be the case. And can you tell me about how much it would cost to run pharm grade for 5 days a week, approximate? I paid about $2 an iu for my generic.





> Everyone made this mistake and gone through this process


Yup! I agree with swithuk, i think many end up here due to suspicions about what they are taking. @ImpeccableChaos: You could look at the positive side of taking a hit financially, 1.) You found out before you ended up with something that caused some damage to your system and 2.) You found out before you spent a lot more. Sometimes you have to cut your losses and move on. Some just do not want to face that fact and would rather keep seeking validation in what they are using. i can't remember if it was you or not, but i remember seeing 2.00 per iu and that is just not possible. If you factor in how many hands had to be greased before it ended up in your hands, even if it were only one or two hands, you are looking at an unrealistic price for HGH. I do not want to even count or dwell on my losses.

----------


## marcus300

> Thanks Marcus, But whatb the hell do I do with 400ius of h y g e 's. I have used them for 6 weeks now and my test did show elevated hgh? If an igf-1 test came back in the 400's would you still be convinced they were bunk? And please don't take offense marcus I am just so disappointed that this would be the case. And can you tell me about how much it would cost to run pharm grade for 5 days a week, approximate? I paid about $2 an iu for my generic.


Read the thread and it will show you what wee are all telling you, generics are crap, stay away your being ripped off 





> Everyone made this mistake and gone through this process


agreed




> Yup! I agree with swithuk, i think many end up here due to suspicions about what they are taking. @ImpeccableChaos: You could look at the positive side of taking a hit financially, 1.) You found out before you ended up with something that caused some damage to your system and 2.) You found out before you spent a lot more. Sometimes you have to cut your losses and move on. Some just do not want to face that fact and would rather keep seeking validation in what they are using. i can't remember if it was you or not, but i remember seeing 2.00 per iu and that is just not possible. If you factor in how many hands had to be greased before it ended up in your hands, even if it were only one or two hands, you are looking at an unrealistic price for HGH. I do not want to even count or dwell on my losses.


correct

----------


## Flier

How long after starting HGH can a bloodtest be performed to show accurate levels?

----------


## ImpeccableChaos

So you guys are TOTALLY convinced this favorably looked upon generic is worthless, and more importantly dangerous? Even if I get a blood serum level of twice the dosage taken and a IGF level of around 400?
I didn't think it was a 100 post for source check when I registered. Did it change?

----------


## ImpeccableChaos

And I am sorry to beat a dead horse but why doesn't an elevated igf result show bioavailability? especialy if it is in the 400's

----------


## ImpeccableChaos

> How long after starting HGH can a bloodtest be performed to show accurate levels?


I was under the impression it was between 3-4 hrs. for blood serum. and three weeks at least for IGF.

----------


## Flier

> I was under the impression it was between 3-4 hrs. for blood serum. and three weeks at least for IGF.


Well...two weeks into my New Hyge 10iu vials, pinning 5iu ED my levels are:
GH..0.3 (<11.5)
IGF1..23.8 (11.40)

Looks like I got fvcked!
Before this I pinned pharm grade for 6 months.....which also was fake (It appears I pinned Insuline). So Pharm grade is only good if we pick it up at the pharmacy ourselves...unless the pharmacy is fvcking us too.
I am even one of the lucky ones with a script. But how lucky am I when 1iu is $30 at the counter??
Is the conclusion to just lay off trying to obtain until HGH becomes more readily available?

----------


## marcus300

> And I am sorry to beat a dead horse but why doesn't an elevated igf result show bioavailability? especialy if it is in the 400's


Read the whole thread, 
they put al sorts of chemicals inside them to throw out BW, igf and other peptides and also in many cases anti-diuretics which is very dangerous.

don't buy generics from China, the only ones any good are jins at the moment or I should say Russain Jins

----------


## ImpeccableChaos

> Well...two weeks into my New Hyge 10iu vials, pinning 5iu ED my levels are:
> GH..0.3 (<11.5)
> IGF1..23.8 (11.40)
> 
> Looks like I got fvcked!
> Before this I pinned pharm grade for 6 months.....which also was fake (It appears I pinned Insuline). So Pharm grade is only good if we pick it up at the pharmacy ourselves...unless the pharmacy is fvcking us too.
> I am even one of the lucky ones with a script. But how lucky am I when 1iu is $30 at the counter??
> Is the conclusion to just lay off trying to obtain until HGH becomes more readily available?


What lab did you use? hgh serum level range at Labcorp is 0.0-2.9 ng/ml and mine came back at 13.8 after 8ius injected SQ three hours and 20 min. And I am not positive but IGF-1 range is 75-212 ng/ml. I haven't done a IGF test yet. Yhe vets on the board are convinced that our generics are not good but I just want to see my IGF score to settle it I guess, but these guys seem to think that even witha high score it doesn't verify that it is good hgh. My only question then is, if my hgh blood serum levels are high and my IGF-1 levels are high then isn't that what we are trying to do anyway? One last thing, when I pinned the 8ius SQ I was informed that the standard protocol is 10ius injected Intramuscular not SQ.
$30 an iu? WTF!

----------


## ImpeccableChaos

[QUOTE=Flier;6495168]Well...two weeks into my New Hyge 10iu vials, pinning 5iu ED my levels are:
GH..0.3 (<11.5)
IGF1..23.8 (11.40)

5ius should have given you a reading of around 10-11 ng'ml with a reference of 0.0-2.9 at Labcorp. And that is at 3-4 hrs after injection. Do your vials have pinwheels on the caps, and are they brown caps? I got the 200 iu kits with teal caps with pinwheels on them. I may post some pictures if anyone is interested. My package came from Hong Kong and the sponsor is probably one of the most respected on another board. But as I have come to find out a lot of these boards seem to exist just to pump sponsors. The guy I got these from is really a good guy so I don't know what to believe now. But I am going to get the IGF test just to see whats up.

----------


## Flier

I´m in Europe, we have different reference.
Yes, brown caps.
With the old yellow caps(or were they blue...?), 8iu vials, my BW on 4iu ED was 11 on the HGH as you state, and IGF-1 in the 60´s.
I also had the common sides with those. So it was HGH. But how pure/potent, Bioavailable...I don´t know.
However with all this confusion, I am done with it.

----------


## sitries

I agree that a lot of chinese HGH is total crap. but you cant just blow it all out the water on that basis! Original ********** (pinwheel tops) and Dr Lins hyge have both been proven time and time again as being good to go with various lab reports on various forums. Now ********** in general is a differnt story as there are so many copies out there!!! If you can get Genuine hyge - Originals or Dr Lins then you are good to go!!!!!! They will probably be half as strong as a European Pharma Growth like Pfizer etc but that is a given.

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## marcus300

> I agree that a lot of chinese HGH is total crap. but you cant just blow it all out the water on that basis! Original ********** (pinwheel tops) and Dr Lins hyge have both been proven time and time again as being good to go with various lab reports on various forums. Now ********** in general is a differnt story as there are so many copies out there!!! If you can get Genuine hyge - Originals or Dr Lins then you are good to go!!!!!! They will probably be half as strong as a European Pharma Growth like Pfizer etc but that is a given.


You don't know what your talking about, read the thread. There are NO genuine hyge's because they are a generic company don't trust generics out of China. If your happy keep on buying them but I wouldn't use them if they were free...

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## Fit N Fun

> Thanks Marcus, But whatb the hell do I do with 400ius of h y g e 's. I have used them for 6 weeks now and my test did show elevated hgh? If an igf-1 test came back in the 400's would you still be convinced they were bunk? And please don't take offense marcus I am just so disappointed that this would be the case. And can you tell me about how much it would cost to run pharm grade for 5 days a week, approximate? I paid about $2 an iu for my generic.


Really don't understand why you would not get a Mass spectrometer test done on your product. 

There is no way to fool a Mass spectrometer test, so then you will know for sure what your product is, how pure it is and what the quantity of product in your vial is. 

If you prove its crap, you can go back to your supplier and haggle, if its good and pure run an IGF-1 test after a few weeks pinning to see how active it is ............... so simple to do.

----------


## ImpeccableChaos

Thanks, how do I go about it and is the spectometer test expensive?


> Really don't understand why you would not get a Mass spectrometer test done on your product. 
> 
> There is no way to fool a Mass spectrometer test, so then you will know for sure what your product is, how pure it is and what the quantity of product in your vial is. 
> 
> If you prove its crap, you can go back to your supplier and haggle, if its good and pure run an IGF-1 test after a few weeks pinning to see how active it is ............... so simple to do.

----------


## Fit N Fun

> Thanks, how do I go about it and is the spectometer test expensive?


Suggest you read back a few posts, I gave good guidance on how to do this last week and have previously posted on this subject several times.

You can also search for my posts where you will see detailed information on what the results look like.

----------


## ImpeccableChaos

> Suggest you read back a few posts, I gave good guidance on how to do this last week and have previously posted on this subject several times.
> 
> You can also search for my posts where you will see detailed information on what the results look like.


Thanks, I will. I am about halfway through the tread now. It's long!

----------


## cyounger100

> So you guys are TOTALLY convinced this favorably looked upon generic is worthless, and more importantly dangerous? Even if I get a blood serum level of twice the dosage taken and a IGF level of around 400?
> I didn't think it was a 100 post for source check when I registered. Did it change?


yes its garbage test can be altered by other peps and thats what there doin to raise these test results no one is selling legit gh for 2 an iu

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## ls2 klr

So basically what I've gathered from this thread is that it is a slim to none chance if you have chinese HGH it is real? Sucks because I have two different kinds and almost positive they are chinese as well, lol.

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## slimshady01

> So basically what I've gathered from this thread is that it is a slim to none chance if you have chinese HGH it is real? Sucks because I have two different kinds and almost positive they are chinese as well, lol.


Hate to break it but if any are fake the Kigs are no1 on the list.. Many tests on them and they showed zero any anything

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## DeniZen

Ok I've read this whole thread. For arguments sake lets say 50% of the generics are fake, underdosed and/or have contaminants. With the high consumption rate from underdosing, hassle, testing, wasted time, reordering...you'd probably spend the same amout of money just buying US pharma grade from the start?

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## swithuk

> Ok I've read this whole thread. For arguments sake lets say 50% of the generics are fake, underdosed and/or have contaminants. With the high consumption rate from underdosing, hassle, testing, wasted time, reordering...you'd probably spend the same amout of money just buying US pharma grade from the start?


exactly ...... when you consider all these factors (plus the fact generics are b.s anyway) pharm grade is the only way to go 

btw id say its a far higher % than 50 . if you saw some of these ugl's you wouldnt buy food from them let alone inject their products in your body

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## swithuk

> Hate to break it but if any are fake the Kigs are no1 on the list.. Many tests on them and they showed zero any anything


agreed kigs are def b.s

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## MedicineMan7

A comment many make is that fake hgh can make one sick. I am taking Hypertropin, 2 IU per day. About 10 days ago I started to not feel well. Today I finally went to the doc and was diagnosed with Bronchitis and possible Pneumonia. So, I have a question:

••• Is Bronchitis and Pneumonia a common result / outcome of taking fake hgh?????

••• If no, then what negative results / outcomes / sicknesses do people get from taking fake hgh?? 

THANKS!!

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> A comment many make is that fake hgh can make one sick. I am taking Hypertropin, 2 IU per day. About 10 days ago I started to not feel well. Today I finally went to the doc and was diagnosed with Bronchitis and possible Pneumonia. So, I have a question:
> 
> ••• Is Bronchitis and Pneumonia a common result / outcome of taking fake hgh?????
> 
> ••• If no, then what negative results / outcomes / sicknesses do people get from taking fake hgh?? 
> 
> THANKS!!


I don't know that bronchitis is a common side from taking fake HGH, but if that is not something you have had before it is possible. The contaminants that could be in the product may cause a number of problems. Those contaminants and whatever else is in their can also cause your immune system to get weak. Problem is there is no one to go back and complain to, just stop taking it. Real hgh would make you feel better not worse. Possibly a little tired in the beginning, but not sick.

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## slimshady01

Found this would pertain to this thread.


How long does GH take to start seeing results?


We see a lot of people saying GH will take "months" to start seeing changes. Is this true? I have always disagreed with and always will disagree with the mentality that says "GH takes months to see any changes".

Why? Because it just isn't true. Now, if someone is only using 1-2 IU per day, it indeed will take a few month to notice any changes and even then, they will be minor.

Once we get up to the 4-5 IU per day mark (a real 4-5 IU per day) guys will begin "seeing" changes within a couple weeks! The first changes which will be noticed will be in muscle fullness. It does not take long for this to start occuring...a couple weeks at this dose. Within a month, many guys will already see a visual reduction in bodyfat.

By the time someone gets up to 10 IU per day, changes will take place rapidly in every respect. Within a single month at that dose, a BB'r WILL notice a significant difference in how he looks. Bodyfat will have gone down noticably and muscle fullness will have increased very signifcantly. Of course, once someone has been using GH for a long period of time, results will begin to slow. The guidelines in this post are for beginners.

I have read many times where guys say GH takes anywhere between 3-6 MONTHS to see any results! The only way that is going to happen is if they're using 1 IU per day or it's fake! In truth, GH is NOT slow to act...it's just that so many people use shit or bunk GH, that they "think" it takes 3-6 months to work...LOL. Or...they use such a low dose that it is impossibleto notice substantial results. Even worse is when guys use low doses of under-dosed GH...which happesn all the time! No wonder so many guys don't notice shit for months. Another factor involved in this false belief is that many guys who don't know what they're talking about repeat this same information, thereby perpetuating the problem.

I challenge anyone here who hasn't used GH before to use just 5 IU per day of properly dosed GH for 30 days...and I guarnatee not a single person will come back and say they see no difference...unless perhaps unless they are very fat, which can make it very hard to notice its effects until they've been using it for a while.

----------


## MedicineMan7

> I don't know that bronchitis is a common side from taking fake HGH, but if that is not something you have had before it is possible. The contaminants that could be in the product may cause a number of problems. Those contaminants and whatever else is in their can also cause your immune system to get weak. Problem is there is no one to go back and complain to, just stop taking it. Real hgh would make you feel better not worse. Possibly a little tired in the beginning, but not sick.



I had Pneumonia once for sure, twice if I remember correctly while growing up as a kid. As an adult, (I am 59) I have had Pneumonia about 3 times if my memory serves me well. 

As far as having had URIs (upper respiratory illness) or if you will, just a real bad cold with sore throat and green phlegm etc., now those I have had "several" through out my adult life.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> I had Pneumonia once for sure, twice if I remember correctly while growing up as a kid. As an adult, (I am 59) I have had Pneumonia about 3 times if my memory serves me well.
> 
> As far as having had URIs (upper respiratory illness) or if you will, just a real bad cold with sore throat and green phlegm etc., now those I have had "several" through out my adult life.


Bronchitis usually comes back and seems to revive itself if you have had it before. If your HGH is counterfeit, I would just stop taking it. If your environment and daily activities such is getting enough rest and proper diet are in line you probably would not be a candidate for pneumonia or bronchitis. But as I stated there could be contaminants in the product which made lower your immune system. Anybody willing to manufacturer and distribute counterfeit products is basically SCUMM and cannot be trusted for what they are putting in the product.

----------


## swithuk

> Bronchitis usually comes back and seems to revive itself if you have had it before. If your HGH is counterfeit, I would just stop taking it. If your environment and daily activities such is getting enough rest and proper diet are in line you probably would not be a candidate for pneumonia or bronchitis. *But as I stated there could be contaminants in the product which made lower your immune system. Anybody willing to manufacturer and distribute counterfeit products is basically SCUMM and cannot be trusted for what they are putting in the product*.


i couldnt agree more

----------


## Fit N Fun

Just got the second set of results back from my IGF-1 blood spot test that shows 393 ng/ml.

My IGF-1 test two months ago before going back on HGH showed my natural IGF-1 level as 171 ng/ml.

I take 4iu HGH at 7am. Monday to Friday with Saturday and Sunday off.

Last year my results were 424 ng/ml for the same dosage.

Am well happy!

----------


## slimshady01

> Just got the second set of results back from my IGF-1 blood spot test that shows 393 ng/ml.
> 
> My IGF-1 test two months ago before going back on HGH showed my natural IGF-1 level as 171 ng/ml.
> 
> I take 4iu HGH at 7am. Monday to Friday with Saturday and Sunday off.
> 
> Last year my results were 424 ng/ml for the same dosage.
> 
> Am well happy!


Which hgh are u on

----------


## marcus300

Getting a lot of feedback lately regarding hyges, blues and rips - all reported bad sides, some didn't experience any kind of results, other had a lot of water rentention issues and others got gyno when they came off. Must be a few sources what are still pumping this shite out...

DONT TOUCH GENERIC'S GUYS, DONT WATSE YOUR MONEY ON CHEAP HGH.

----------


## slimshady01

> Getting a lot of feedback lately regarding hyges, blues and rips - all reported bad sides, some didn't experience any kind of results, other had a lot of water rentention issues and others got gyno when they came off. Must be a few sources what are still pumping this shite out...
> 
> DONT TOUCH GENERIC'S GUYS, DONT WATSE YOUR MONEY ON CHEAP HGH.


Thanks for the update Marcus! I won't touch this crap again regardless how desperate I get.. I'm sick of donating my money to them .

----------


## Hephens

Well i'm gonna bring up and could start an argument here lol, but i'm sick of paying top dollar for pharm grade hgh, when i have and used a good generic hgh kit before. Pharm grade is by far the best and no doubt, but let me tell you guys something there are real hgh in china and its very hard and rare to come by. They simply don't ship any real hgh to EU and US market, you mainly all getting the underground black market fake hgh. My friend just got prescribed and picked up a kit of hgh from the chemist over there and simply said that his kit of Hygiene he got from the chemist is for Chinese market only they wont ship outside. I blame the western world for cracking down after the olympics on china which has caused even more fake hgh labs to open up.

----------


## MedicineMan7

Howdy everyone!

I pinned 10 IU of Hypertropin and 3 hours 15 minutes later had a blood draw at Quest Diagnostics. 
I had my Growth Hormone Serum Level checked - test code 521. The result was 24.5 ng/ml. The range for this test is less than or = to 10.0 ng/ml.
••• I would appreciate any feedback re my results!!


After pinning this one time dose of 10 IU, 3 hours 15 minutes later, I also had my IGF-1 tested and it was 387 ng/ml. The range for this test is 50 - 317. Test code # is 16293. 
I thought perhaps my IGF-1 should have been higher, but maybe it takes IGF-1 a few days to build up while taking the same dose every day? 
••• Does any one know how long it takes for IGF-1 to build up in ones system if taking the same dose every day?? 

A couple months ago, my IGF-1 tested out at 320 taking Hypertropin 2 IU 7 days per week. This is the dose I am still taking every day. 

In the past, taking pharma hgh, (Saizen) I had a draw done 3 x while taking 2 IU 7 days per week. The IGF-1 results were: 179, 400 and 342. The highest it ever got on Saizen was 502 but that was taking it at 3 IU per day 7 days per week 

••• If anyone knows of test I can actually have done on a vial of hgh (to prove it is real) buy sending it to a lab somewhere, please let me know of the exact name of such test and also where exactly to send it to.  :Smilie:

----------


## AnabolicDoc

Your hyges are likely not real. I've seen hgh test strips for sale but no idea if they r legit. Try googling it. 

After at least a few days, but preferably a few wks, get your igf-1 checked. If it's similar to the igf-1 levels you got on pharm grade, at the same dose, then that would support that your hyges may be real (although this is highly unlikely as hyges are very commonly faked).

Also check the MAGIC Foundation website as you may be able to find programs and less expensive places to fill hgh prescriptions. There's a whole forum there of parents of kids with hgh deficiency, who have difficulty with the expense and getting insurance reimbursement.

----------


## Hephens

I think what alot of people don't understand is that when they go for a blood test for both gh and igf-1, there on a daily dose of say 2-3iu for the past few months than just before there blood test they pinn 10iu. Well your gh will be through the roof after 3-4hrs but your igf-1 will take 24hrs to peak and even at 1x10iu pinned that's not gonna have it at its peak igf-1 levels.

Some guy on this thread reading back was on 2-3iu of h y g e t r o p i n for few months and did both gh and igf-1 test and pinned 10iu just before his test, his gh was very high at what is should of been for 10iu shot but his igf-1 levels were high but not high enough for 10iu. 

As far as i know it can take upto a week of injecting 10iu each day to get an accurate reading for igf-1 at 10iu at its peak.

----------


## Hephens

> Found this would pertain to this thread.
> 
> 
> How long does GH take to start seeing results?
> 
> 
> We see a lot of people saying GH will take "months" to start seeing changes. Is this true? I have always disagreed with and always will disagree with the mentality that says "GH takes months to see any changes".
> 
> Why? Because it just isn't true. Now, if someone is only using 1-2 IU per day, it indeed will take a few month to notice any changes and even then, they will be minor.
> ...


Yes your right, iv seen gains from hgh in conjunction with AAS and insulin within weeks i mean big changes just from taking 2-10iu i know a ifbb pro who chucks 10iu with all his other stuff hes on and he explodes within weeks. Too many people just waste there hgh and take it by itself, but that also depends on your goals and what you want out of it. I would never waste my money taking hgh by its self to see results, you'll be waiting months on end.

----------


## slimshady01

> Yes your right, iv seen gains from hgh in conjunction with AAS and insulin within weeks i mean big changes just from taking 2-10iu i know a ifbb pro who chucks 10iu with all his other stuff hes on and he explodes within weeks. Too many people just waste there hgh and take it by itself, but that also depends on your goals and what you want out of it. I would never waste my money taking hgh by its self to see results, you'll be waiting months on end.


Exactly!

----------


## Beast177

I have the same blues.

----------


## curioususer

Mass spec on hyges!!

----------


## MedicineMan7

> Mass spec on hyges!!


To curioususer, 
Regarding the Mass spec on hyges, can you tell me the address to where you mailed your sample? I would like to mail them a vial of mine.
How much did it cost you?

Thanks!

----------


## Rick Kane

> Mass spec on hyges!!


Sorry bro but I call bullshit on that scan. Even western pharmas don't always have 99% purity as a finished product. I've seen omnitrope with a 96.8% purity but for the most part they average 97-99. Do you really believe that a ug lab is now producing 99% pure gh??
Why is the scan refering to sample as Hygetopin and why is the sample even labeled **********? The lab should only know it as sample A, B et al.

----------


## slimshady01

> Mass spec on hyges!!
> 
> <img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141341"/>


This looks so dumb,my grandma could make this up on her apple 2e

----------


## Hardbody408

Fcvtec. Ive been using the same brand only i bought the 100good iu brown tops. I started a thread a couple weeks ago and everyone i mean everyone says there fake. I haven't felt any cts i did develop rotator cuff tendinitisbut not sure if its due to the gh. I do see a little bloating cause im losing weight but belly still popping out. I dnt no what to believe at this point but all i no is half the people said they wouldnt touch them even if they were free! Only difference between mine and his are the amount per bottle.

----------


## fm2002

Wow, it took me 2 days, but I finally finished reading through the entire 47 pages. I had jumped in from time to time, but to read it from start to finish was much better.

First, for me bodybuilding isn't my priority (no offense to the BB's w/o you guys we would know nothing). My priority is extending the quality of life through supplementation, exercise and to a lesser extent a healthy diet. Supplementation of vitamins, low dose of testosterone and hgh. Vitamins for all are easy to come by and because I used to live in Thailand and still frequently go there Test is also easy to come by. This leaves HGH. Unfortunately for most, pharmaceutical HGH is very hard to come by. For reasons of either can't get a doctors script or cost. The latter being for me. I can easily get it from my HRT doc in the states, but the price is way above my pay grade.

This puts me in a difficult position. I study my ass off. Learning among other things the incredible benefits of hgh, but I can't afford it. I know how good the cookies are, but I can't get in the cookie jar. Than IMO a wonderful thing comes along; Chinese generic hgh. Affordable, accessible and I guess good quality. I think the same scenario can be said by alot on this forum and why this thread is soooooooooooooooo popular.

Now if we are to follow what Marcus is suggesting than someone has just taken away my only option for the coveted cookies. So first denial, than anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. I think all emotions are well represented in this thread. 

And I'll add a sixth; desperation. What do we do now? Especially when I have a 6 month supply; I always have elevated IGF-1 levels no adverse sides as mentioned etc. etc. I have to make a decision. 

[This thread has been a great tool in helping me. In particular Marcus, Ronnie and Sheven. These three in my opinion provided the most useful, credible info. Marcus for playing the role of devils advocate, Ronnie with the first big name to come forward and admit he was burned and Sheven for providing an insight on how it works and in defense of the legitimate China pharmaceutical industry (I really hope he wasn't banned? I sure didn't see any reason on this thread of why this could of happened).]

To help me make this decision can somebody answer these questions for me

1) can somebody explain how adding IGF-1 to a vial would show up on a blood test. Meaning if the entire vial was IGF-1 what would be the IGF-1 rise. Say for example with real hgh. I have heard that 1iu per day should equate to a rise of 100 points. Does the same hold true for IGF-1 ? Is there a difference in reaction to blood levels between liver produced IGF-1 and exogenous IGF-1?
2)HGH serum levels - it's been said that some use this test to see if their hgh is good. Others have said that if GHRP peptide is used this will also raise HGH serum levels. There's some differing opinions on the latter. My hrt doc tells me it's very hard to test your blood to see if GHRP and Ipmorelin are working. I started a thread once on Dats forum and someone wrote in that you inject the peptides and within an hour have your blood drawn. Let's assume this method works. So here's my question how long does exogenous HGH and Peptides induced hgh linger in your blood? Seems to me HGH induced by Peps dissipates quickly and if exogenous HGH stays around longer than you may be able to time your blood draw to determine if you have good hgh???

----------


## Miguel2013

Man this is some good shit right here!!
I been on hGH for just over a month now, just upped the dose to 5 Iu's but i have not yet seen any benefits nor side effects. No better sleep, no high energy levels, fat loss erc... no CTS either etc... Im buying getropin for 550 per kit, blue tops but they dont say getropin on the blue tops (which i believe its suppose to) there isnt any counterfeit code on the box either. My shit could be fake for all I know im thinking of buying a prego test tomorrow and testing it. Question is how much iu's do i have to waste to do the prego test????

----------


## beerdogg

Prego test is for HCG .

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Man this is some good shit right here!!
> I been on hGH for just over a month now, just upped the dose to 5 Iu's but i have not yet seen any benefits nor side effects. No better sleep, no high energy levels, fat loss erc... no CTS either etc... Im buying getropin for 550 per kit, blue tops but they dont say getropin on the blue tops (which i believe its suppose to) there isnt any counterfeit code on the box either. My shit could be fake for all I know im thinking of buying a prego test tomorrow and testing it. Question is how much iu's do i have to waste to do the prego test????


They usually do not use hcg anymore to counterfeit hgh. READ THROUGH THIS THREAD AND YOU WILL GET AN EDUCATION ON HGH, you do not have real hgh. You want to take hgh, take pharm grade. If you can not obtain pharm grade then i suggest not wasting your money. Generics, getropin, jins etc from China are fake, junk! You also paid a high price for that product.

----------


## Rick Kane

^^
Yeah that. Miguelito, you got hosed. I know stuff is more expensive up north but damn! If your gh was real you would be experiencing at least some sides like a little bit of water retention, tightness in hands, joints a little sore or vivid dreams. Not everyone experiences the same thing but most people will experience at least one of the four. 
Physical changes come later but you will definitely notice a change in how your body feels in the first month.

----------


## Miguel2013

> They usually do not use hcg anymore to counterfeit hgh. READ THROUGH THIS THREAD AND YOU WILL GET AN EDUCATION ON HGH, you do not have real hgh. You want to take hgh, take pharm grade. If you can not obtain pharm grade then i suggest not wasting your money. Generics, getropin, jins etc from China are fake, junk! You also paid a high price for that product.


My buddy was on the same stuff Im on and on the second month he started having CTS, lost some fat, excessive sweating, better sleep... im gona up my dose and finish this kit man. Im not loosing hope just yet.... but if i feel no sides or no changes after this kit i know the stuff's gotta be fake. Though i want to feel the benefits already and asap one month might be a little too early....

----------


## Miguel2013

> ^^
> Yeah that. Miguelito, you got hosed. I know stuff is more expensive up north but damn! If your gh was real you would be experiencing at least some sides like a little bit of water retention, tightness in hands, joints a little sore or vivid dreams. Not everyone experiences the same thing but most people will experience at least one of the four. 
> Physical changes come later but you will definitely notice a change in how your body feels in the first month.



Im drinking water like a beast if that counts and now that i started injecting in the morning i feel more energy through out the day... dont know if thats the Gh though.... I dont think its worth doing the prego test for Hcg anymore... i rather get my shit tested in a lab but i dont know any places im from toronto - canada

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> My buddy was on the same stuff Im on and on the second month he started having CTS, lost some fat, excessive sweating, better sleep... im gona up my dose and finish this kit man. Im not loosing hope just yet.... but if i feel no sides or no changes after this kit i know the stuff's gotta be fake. Though i want to feel the benefits already and asap one month might be a little too early....


Read through this thread, the counterfeits have been manufactured with peptides that can cause similar side effects. This has all been stated over and over on this thread. Everyone that has counterfeit spends a lot of energy trying to prove what they have is real. Energy would be better spent reading this forum and educating yourself. Most of the people involved in this thread are not going to give you the answer you want to hear. Not trying to be sarcastic, but this is a long thread and new people come on asking the same question about same or similar products and a lot of research and experiences have gone into this thread. If your product was real you would know it at a month and not be questioning it. I can not say it enough "Read through this thread" Good Luck!

----------


## marcus300

> My buddy was on the same stuff Im on and on the second month he started having CTS, lost some fat, excessive sweating, better sleep... im gona up my dose and finish this kit man. Im not loosing hope just yet.... but if i feel no sides or no changes after this kit i know the stuff's gotta be fake. Though i want to feel the benefits already and asap one month might be a little too early....


You haven't got gh, your buddy didn't have real gh either the results he had were from his new diet and training while on the so called gh. If you buy cheap generic gh your wasting all your money, read the thread and you will understand better that you haven't got real gh. You got fake rubbish sorry to say

----------


## chickenstirfry

I'm have run a good few kits of thanktropin & novotropin from a very much respected & long-established source.. I'm sure a few of you vets know who I'm talking about.

They do everything that GH is supposed to do?! Crazy dreams, deep sleep, skin shiny & glowing, new veins, fat loss especially round the mid section, more pop & 3D to the muscles, delts getting wider, just a different look to the body, nails & hair grow much quicker, cts... it's all there. On 4ius a day. 

I'm not trying to advertise this stuff at all, I would MUCH rather be able to run pharm GH at the same dosage if I could afford just for peace for mind that the product is clean... but what I am using MUST have real GH in it, not severely underdosed either.

----------


## marcus300

> I'm have run a good few kits of thanktropin & novotropin from a very much respected & long-established source.. I'm sure a few of you vets know who I'm talking about.
> 
> They do everything that GH is supposed to do?! Crazy dreams, deep sleep, skin shiny & glowing, new veins, fat loss especially round the mid section, more pop & 3D to the muscles, delts getting wider, just a different look to the body, nails & hair grow much quicker, cts... it's all there. On 4ius a day. 
> 
> I'm not trying to advertise this stuff at all, I would MUCH rather be able to run pharm GH at the same dosage if I could afford just for peace for mind that the product is clean... but what I am using MUST have real GH in it, not severely underdosed either.


Your probably running peptides at the best your not running real gh, but if your happy carry on running it but once you try real pharm grade gh you will understand what we are all talking about...

----------


## chickenstirfry

Marcus I'm gonna give it a go and see man.

----------


## marcus300

Your wasting your money and being sucked into buying peps instead of real hgh but yes of course give it a go because you wont know how to tell anyway until you actually buy real gh, cheap gh = not real gh..............Please read the whole thread

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> I'm have run a good few kits of thanktropin & novotropin from a very much respected & long-established source.. I'm sure a few of you vets know who I'm talking about.
> 
> They do everything that GH is supposed to do?! Crazy dreams, deep sleep, skin shiny & glowing, new veins, fat loss especially round the mid section, more pop & 3D to the muscles, delts getting wider, just a different look to the body, nails & hair grow much quicker, cts... it's all there. On 4ius a day. 
> 
> I'm not trying to advertise this stuff at all, I would MUCH rather be able to run pharm GH at the same dosage if I could afford just for peace for mind that the product is clean... but what I am using MUST have real GH in it, not severely underdosed either.





> Your wasting your money and being sucked into buying peps instead of real hgh but yes of course give it a go because you wont know how to tell anyway until you actually buy real gh, cheap gh = not real gh..............Please read the whole thread


I have to agree with Marcus. I see now why so many believe that there hgh is real. Other forums basically endorse sales reps etc. which is crazy to do on a forum. Unless of course you're getting a cut of the action. I also know very trusted sources and they personally do not use the generics etc. they buy pharm for themselves and sell the other. They are in business and supplying what is in demand, good or bad if there customers are begging for cheap, then then they will sell it. The day you get a batch that screws you up, you will understand what we are talking about. Just my two cents, but by all means have at it.

----------


## chickenstirfry

> Your wasting your money and being sucked into buying peps instead of real hgh but yes of course give it a go because you wont know how to tell anyway until you actually buy real gh, cheap gh = not real gh..............Please read the whole thread


Dude a misunderstanding... I meant I'm going to give pharm gh a go. I will only be able to run it at like 2-3iu eod maybe... very interested to see how it stack up against 4iu's of thanks/novos daily. Great thread I have read the lot and see the point of view.

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## Suppe454

I can say this much I have a buddy who was using the Chinese HGH and being I worked for his andrologist I looked in his chart for the hell of it to see his IGF-1 and he was sitting at 155. I have been using GHPR2-6 with semorelin at 600mcg total in 0.2 ml 2x a day on an empty stomach and my current IGF-1 is 305ng/dl I get my peptide prescribed by Dr Lipshultz in Houston and get it at a compounding pharmacy he recommends. I lost 10 lbs of fat and gained lean muscle in 4 months no BS. I now market for that compounder bc I know his peptides are bonafide FDA products. A 10 dollar copay to UROLOGIST and 260.00 for two bottles of the real peptide not the crap from peptide labs or any research associated stuff. That was a cheap way for me to get the amount of my own HGH kicking.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Dude a misunderstanding... I meant I'm going to give pharm gh a go. I will only be able to run it at like 2-3iu eod maybe... very interested to see how it stack up against 4iu's of thanks/novos daily. Great thread I have read the lot and see the point of view.


I misunderstood you then. I only run 2 to 3 iu's and it works well depending on what you are trying to achieve. Not running now, but more affordable on that dosage. If i were you and cost is a factor which it usually is, i would start at 2 iu's for around a month and then bump to 3 to see the difference which i feel is big. If you run 2 for a month that is long enough to see difference and compare when you kick up to 3. I would not recommend eod, i think you need to run 5 straight with two off or 3 straight with one off.

----------


## fm2002

Marcus,

It's my understanding that if one is using Peptides, knowingly or unknowingly, it won't show up on a IGF-1 blood test. Or at best only right after you inject the Peps. So if the "Chinese" are using Peps instead of HGH its highly unlikely it will show up positively on a blood test.

----------


## marcus300

> Marcus,
> 
> It's my understanding that if one is using Peptides, knowingly or unknowingly, it won't show up on a IGF-1 blood test. Or at best only right after you inject the Peps. So if the "Chinese" are using Peps instead of HGH its highly unlikely it will show up positively on a blood test.


LR3 would and other peps what increase your IGF

----------


## Miguel2013

This thread is long and I dont have time to sit here and read 47 pages about people arguing about HGH. I've read through a lot and will probably finish at some point and time. Theres obviously only one way to find out if you have rHGH and thats by testing if, end of story. In the mean time.... i was very skeptic about my chinese Getropin blue tops because I wasnt feeling sides and the packaging didnt have a counterfeit number (not that this matters anyways)

Now that Im almost 2 months into my cycle, taking 5 ui's, 6 on 1 off ( Im only taking HGH... No anabolic steroids ) I am sleeping like a baby, I've gained strength and energy at the gym, Im horny all the time, I got a lil bigger and ripped, sweating a lot more and my nails are growing like crazy ( i notice this cuz Im biting my nails a lot now.. i hate long nails so i always bite them), my mood has dramatically changed... feels like my depression is gone. 
Now... Is my Getropin real or not? I dont have the money to get it tested but IMHO I think my source is legit...

This is the Getropin Im buying... has anyone ever taken these???


closed box

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## chi-town

Wow!! really glad I found this thread. I was just about to buy the hyge blue tops and thought i would check on here and see what you guys thought of them. Looks like I saved myself $600 and a lot of disappointment. Thanks everyone for all the great information, I have really learned a lot from this website

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## marcus300

> Wow!! really glad I found this thread. I was just about to buy the hyge blue tops and thought i would check on here and see what you guys thought of them. Looks like I saved myself $600 and a lot of disappointment. Thanks everyone for all the great information, I have really learned a lot from this website


You listened and did the right thing, many don't and wont believe it......well done

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## Granovich

> You listened and did the right thing, many don't and wont believe it......well done


and alot go buy it and say its working not because they see results but they see Bloat and numb fingers and while they are on AAS they think gains are from HGH
its upsetting !!!!!

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## marcus300

bump

----------


## Facecrash

I got 4 10iu kits of jins from Ukraine. Ran 2iu for a month been running 3iu for 2 weeks and getting cts and knee pain. Hard to tell if I'm seeing gains since I started trt 2 months ago but I'm sleeping great despite a newborn. I checked gensci security number and fibers and the fibers are real not printed. i emailed the distributor and here is the response 

"Dear _____

We sell only original Jintropin by GenSci. It has verification code so you can check at GenSci web-site.

You can find our customers at steroid .com web-forum and they reassure you that what we sell is original product.

Best regards,
***********"

----------


## slimshady01

> I got 4 10iu kits of jins from Ukraine. Ran 2iu for a month been running 3iu for 2 weeks and getting cts and knee pain. Hard to tell if I'm seeing gains since I started trt 2 months ago but I'm sleeping great despite a newborn. I checked gensci security number and fibers and the fibers are real not printed. i emailed the distributor and here is the response
> 
> "Dear _____
> 
> We sell only original Jintropin by GenSci. It has verification code so you can check at GenSci web-site.
> 
> You can find our customers at steroid .com web-forum and they reassure you that what we sell is original product.
> 
> Best regards,
> ***********"


Funny their watching that thread

----------


## marcus300

> Funny their watching that thread


Yes, think about that  :Wink: 

Like ive mentioned don't buy anything from Russia or Ukraine yet.........things don't add up and when you suspect something is wrong its normally is....

----------


## Hazard

It's a shame if greed is the main factor. Why ruin a good thing?

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Yes, think about that 
> 
> Like ive mentioned don't buy anything from Russia or Ukraine yet.........things don't add up and when you suspect something is wrong its normally is....





> It's a shame if greed is the main factor. Why ruin a good thing?


They google reviews on their product. They want to see if anyone is giving good reviews and if people are starting to figure out that they started out having some good product and switched to fake. They apparently viewed some good reviews on this site and ran with it. Like the rest of the scammers, they figured we have good reviews, now lets start pumping out the crap. But they are too stupid and greedy to realize that there are dedicated and honorable mods, hall of famers and in general concerned people that are staying on it and keeping up on any fake products they may start to come out with.

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## KRH

Damn I wish I had seen this thread about a week ago. Now I'm stuck with a sh*t load of Hyge. Oh well at least I will learn from my mistakes. From now on I am only getting pharma grade GH. My main concern is not knowing about other brands of GH so it will be harder to spot a fake. Where as with Hyge it was too easy to spot fakes. 

Also why's this thread just about China, surely there must be other countries doing the same thing as them? Any brand of GH is possible to fake, right?

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Damn I wish I had seen this thread about a week ago. Now I'm stuck with a sh*t load of Hyge. Oh well at least I will learn from my mistakes. From now on I am only getting pharma grade GH. My main concern is not knowing about other brands of GH so it will be harder to spot a fake. Where as with Hyge it was too easy to spot fakes. 
> 
> Also why's this thread just about China, surely there must be other countries doing the same thing as them? Any brand of GH is possible to fake, right?


The thread is about China and has been an active thread for a long time due to the fact that one of the Vet's here made a discovery about the Chinese HGH. i am not aware of any of the other major pharmaceutical companies in other countries putting out counterfeits to sell to the US. Your profile states that you are 19 years old which IMO is way to young to be using HGH.
I am not really familiar with what goes on in other countries such as England and Underground Labs trying to counterfeit major pharm companies HGH. Many of the fake hgh that has come out of China was not from some little UGL it was from the companies themselves. Maybe manufacturers in other countries have a different mentality than China. I would like to phrase it as DIGNITY over the DOLLAR...

----------


## KRH

> The thread is about China and has been an active thread for a long time due to the fact that one of the Vet's here made a discovery about the Chinese HGH. i am not aware of any of the other major pharmaceutical companies in other countries putting out counterfeits to sell to the US. Your profile states that you are 19 years old which IMO is way to young to be using HGH.
> I am not really familiar with what goes on in other countries such as England and Underground Labs trying to counterfeit major pharm companies HGH. Many of the fake hgh that has come out of China was not from some little UGL it was from the companies themselves. Maybe manufacturers in other countries have a different mentality than China. I would like to phrase it as DIGNITY over the DOLLAR...


Yeah I need to change that. I'm not 19, you're not the first person that has told me about my profile. I lied about my age for a good reason that I won't go into. I wish I was 19 again though  :Big Grin: 

Also this is why it worries me because no one is sure what goes on with other countries, so we don't know if if its just China. I am also getting some American Pharma Grade GH, but I am not sure if it's a knock off or not. 

Anyway thanks for the info  :Smilie:

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Yeah I need to change that. I'm not 19, you're not the first person that has told me about my profile. I lied about my age for a good reason that I won't go into. I wish I was 19 again though 
> 
> Also this is why it worries me because no one is sure what goes on with other countries, so we don't know if if its just China. I am also getting some American Pharma Grade GH, but I am not sure if it's a knock off or not. 
> 
> Anyway thanks for the info


China is the main topic because they are the ones that have been counterfeiting. Pharm grade HGH from other countries outside of China and US Is difficult to obtain. Does not seem to be an issue from what i have encountered as far as counterfeiting There packaging etc, does not make it easy for counterfeiters. most educated on HGH will not buy the Chinese hgh and the ones that do are only interested in the cost being the number one factor. Just does not seem to be a market to counterfeit some of the major pharm manufacturers. If there were no options other than the pharm grades out there and all this chinese junk were not available, i think you would start seeing some knock offs of pharm. You will have to do your research on the US that you have and seek out packaging, where obtained etc. If you are taking the US, and have been for awhile you would know. If you are wondering about it and have been using for a few months, it's not a good sign.

----------


## KRH

> China is the main topic because they are the ones that have been counterfeiting. Pharm grade HGH from other countries outside of China and US Is difficult to obtain. Does not seem to be an issue from what i have encountered as far as counterfeiting There packaging etc, does not make it easy for counterfeiters. most educated on HGH will not buy the Chinese hgh and the ones that do are only interested in the cost being the number one factor. Just does not seem to be a market to counterfeit some of the major pharm manufacturers. If there were no options other than the pharm grades out there and all this chinese junk were not available, i think you would start seeing some knock offs of pharm. You will have to do your research on the US that you have and seek out packaging, where obtained etc. If you are taking the US, and have been for awhile you would know. If you are wondering about it and have been using for a few months, it's not a good sign.


Thanks, also I'm a fast learner. I've only decided today that I am going to take pharma grade GH. Like I said I've only just seen this thread today. I am kind of pissed about it though, mods on other forums brainwashed me into thinking that Hyge is good to go. Now I'm stuck with a load of crap hyge. Also my supplier is ripping my off with pharma grade GH  :Frown:

----------


## EasyDoesIt

I would be very cautious if you are purchasing the Pharm grade from the same person you purchase the fake. I know what you mean about some of the other forums out there.

----------


## KRH

> I would be very cautious if you are purchasing the Pharm grade from the same person you purchase the fake. I know what you mean about some of the other forums out there.


Yeah I am very cautious. My supplier buys from someone else, I don't think he tried to rip me off with that Hyge I generally think he doesn't know it's fake. He gets pharma grade GH from someone else so it should be fine. However it's Omnitrope GH, so I've no idea how to spot a fake for that brand. Also the only reason people are still falling for Hyge is because of these other forums still promoting this crap because they are too stubborn to admit that Hyge is fake BS.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Yeah I am very cautious. My supplier buys from someone else, I don't think he tried to rip me off with that Hyge I generally think he doesn't know it's fake. He gets pharma grade GH from someone else so it should be fine. However it's Omnitrope GH, so I've no idea how to spot a fake for that brand. Also the only reason people are still falling for Hyge is because of these other forums still promoting this crap because they are too stubborn to admit that Hyge is fake BS.


Yes i have viewed posts on other forums and am amazed at the endorsements of that junk. But that is not the only reason, many people do not even bother researching anything and look only at the price. When there sitting on 4 or 5 kits, they do not even want to research it.

----------


## marcus300

The other forums are sponsors for them and also reps and false accounts to suck membersoin to part with their money

----------


## austinite

> The other forums are sponsors for them and also reps and false accounts to suck membersoin to part with their money


Yup. Very common.

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## EasyDoesIt

> The other forums are sponsors for them and also reps and false accounts to suck membersoin to part with their money


Yeah, they more than just endorse the products, their very aggressive in sales and pound you with BS emails to buy. For a paid membership, you get blah, blah. I registered with some of those forums just to review posts. You can really appreciate this one after reading info on others. Those are the kind of sites that draw attention in the wrong way.

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## EasyDoesIt

> The other forums are sponsors for them and also reps and false accounts to suck membersoin to part with their money


Delete duplicate post

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## Microbrew

> Peptides pinned before blood work would spike GH serum levels as well and GHRP's are known to be faked for GH.


GHRP's reach peak levels in 40mins, they won't be high enough to be positive on a hgh serum test if done right.

----------


## Microbrew

> I got my results back from Labcorps. My Blood serum level was 13.8, blood was drawn 3hrs and 20 mins after injecting 8ius SC in naval area. This was quite a bit lower than others had gotten. I read that a score of double the iu amount was closer to reality with HGH. And if that is the case then it was fairly close. I wish I had done a igf-1 test also. What do you guys think? Should I retest with 10 ius and get the igf-1 test also? Should I inject IM instead? BTW the serial number checked out on the .com.cn website and these are the 200iu kits with 25 8iu vials.


That is pretty low for the 8ius ones. I scored 36 on Hyge serum test and 49 with the 10iu hyges. I don't hold hardly any water from Hyge's. 

Everyone is different when it comes to holding water. People hold water on Pharm Grade and get the same sides as generics. 

There are shitty generics and really good generics. I consider Hyges the best generic out of china.

----------


## Microbrew

> Thanks Marcus, But whatb the hell do I do with 400ius of h y g e 's. I have used them for 6 weeks now and my test did show elevated hgh? If an igf-1 test came back in the 400's would you still be convinced they were bunk? And please don't take offense marcus I am just so disappointed that this would be the case. And can you tell me about how much it would cost to run pharm grade for 5 days a week, approximate? I paid about $2 an iu for my generic.


Use them Hyges are good if you got them from the right place. I do agree that over 90% of gh out of china is crap but there are some good ones.

----------


## marcus300

> *Use them Hyges are good if you got them from the right place.* .


I disagree, there are no good hyges even from the right place or direct from the factory. I'd read the whole thread and may give you a better understanding on how corrupt the Chinese are. I know none of us what to believe we have been buying something else but its true.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

People here are missing the point, "If you can not afford a Lamborghini then do not buy one". I just had this conversation with a friend of mine. He is buying junk HGH. He said yeah but this is much cheaper. I tried to explain to him that the comparison is not apples to apples. You are not buying hgh. There is a reason people end up on this thread and it is usually suspicion of what they have. Here in US, the pharmacies can not buy there Pharm grade HGH at wholesale for anywhere near what people are buying counterfeit for. There is a reason for that. 

The demand for HGH is high enough for the Chinese to keep rolling out product. If real pharm hgh was able to be produced at the prices affordable enough for as many customers out there seeking it, someone would be doing it and selling loads of it through Anti-Aging clinics. There are no half price Lamborghini's. Thats just the way it is. No one here has anything to gain by stating the Chinese hgh purchased is counterfeit. No one here can fix the problem of someone buying several hundred units and seeking Validation of there product being quality. I would bet that people reading this thread will not buy the same hgh again. I was fortunate as i almost bought four kits of Jin and only bought one. After my discovery of the jin being junk, i knew i was ripped off, but then thought, it could have been worse. That lure of the great price makes people buy much more. 
I have no interest in convincing anyone to do anything they do not want to do, but someone who is thinking about buying 4 or 5 kits may think twice after reading this thread. Getting burned is a very violated feeling and no one likes it. 
Best to all,

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> GHRP's reach peak levels in 40mins, they won't be high enough to be positive on a hgh serum test if done right.


True, but they're still very elevated at 2 and 3 hours and don't return to baseline til beyond 4. 

The point is whatever that garbage is isn't real GH and could be some sort of GHRP combo or anything really.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> That is pretty low for the 8ius ones. I scored 36 on Hyge serum test and 49 with the 10iu hyges. I don't hold hardly any water from Hyge's.


So you're happy that your hyges elevated your gh serum to about double what studies show real pharm gh should??

Let me guess your hyges are overdosed lol.

----------


## slimshady01

> So you're happy that your hyges elevated your gh serum to about double what studies show real pharm gh should??
> 
> Let me guess your hyges are overdosed lol.


That's the red flag for me that people get double or triple the labs of human grade western pharm hgh.... 

Common sense says that's not right

----------


## testluva

I have used from my HRT Doc Sermorelin/GHRP and my body didn't respond to well from my baseline on GH Serum and IGF-1. It did bump up a bit but not much. So I know my body doesn't respond we'll to these Peptides that are mentioned to be used in this thread. When using Rips, Ukraine Jin and AnkeBio I got great results on both test. In fact they tripled my baseline. So I will agree to disagree that the Chinese GH are bunk and using Peptides. I have all the proof and I'm very satisfied with my selection of Chinese GH. This is just my own personal experience. Everyone responds different.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> I have used from my HRT Doc Sermorelin/GHRP and my body didn't respond to well from my baseline on GH Serum and IGF-1. It did bump up a bit but not much. So I know my body doesn't respond we'll to these Peptides that are mentioned to be used in this thread. When using Rips, Ukraine Jin and AnkeBio I got great results on both test. In fact they tripled my baseline. So I will agree to disagree that the Chinese GH are bunk and using Peptides. I have all the proof and I'm very satisfied with my selection of Chinese GH. This is just my own personal experience. Everyone responds different.


A solid peptide protocol has been shown to produce similar GH results regardless of age so either your peps were underdosed/bunk or you have an issue that needs to be addressed with your pituitary gland. Simply saying they don't work for you is subjective at best. 

And putting much credibility in blood tests from GH serum is ridiculous IMO. The bio-availability of GH is impossible to test so a GH serum triple baseline is completely meaningless at proving the efficacy of the hormone. It's a recombinant complex peptide chain that must be refined and filtered many times and the by products of the ecoli can produce the same and much more exaggerated sides of real pharm GH. 

The serum test is mostly meaningless compared to the desired results from GH and regardless of blood test scores rips are not bio available legit GH. Everyone does respond differently to a certain extent but the variability is very limited with pharm GH and seems to be to a ridiculous extent with generics regardless of source.

----------


## marcus300

> A solid peptide protocol has been shown to produce similar GH results regardless of age so either your peps were underdosed/bunk or you have an issue that needs to be addressed with your pituitary gland. Simply saying they don't work for you is subjective at best. 
> 
> And putting much credibility in blood tests from GH serum is ridiculous IMO. The bio-availability of GH is impossible to test so a GH serum triple baseline is completely meaningless at proving the efficacy of the hormone. It's a recombinant complex peptide chain that must be refined and filtered many times and the by products of the ecoli can produce the same and much more exaggerated sides of real pharm GH. 
> 
> The serum test is mostly meaningless compared to the desired results from GH and regardless of blood test scores rips are not bio available legit GH. Everyone does respond differently to a certain extent but the variability is very limited with pharm GH and seems to be to a ridiculous extent with generics regardless of source.


Agreed, this is been said time and time again throughout this thread. Anyone concerned about generics please read the whole thread it will take you a few days but you will have your eyes opened. 

Don't just post its all about the source shite or my generics are great due to my blood work crap, we all use to think the same but one thing never changes you use pharm grade HGH for a good amount of time at a reasonable dose and you will see Chinese generics vs pharm grade is like comparing salt against pepper - its completely different

----------


## slimshady01

Lol salt and pepper! I just loled out loud in a meeting!

----------


## fattexan

I ran Jins for almost 9 weeks, at 2iu. Supplier ran out of Jins, and I got pissed, so I asked if they'd swap my already-paid order for some Hyges. $300 for 50iu of the Jins, $600 for 200iu of the Hyges. Supplier agreed and shipped the Hyges. I ran 2iu last week and 4iu this week. I was getting numb fingers/cold feet at 2iu on the Jins, and I'm getting NOTHING from the Hyges. Go figure. 

That's what I get for not waiting for the Jins to come back in stock. Props to the supplier for switching it when I asked, but I should have listened to the masses.

----------


## Facecrash

Just an update, I stopped taking 1.5 iu 2 weeks ago and feel myself again. The cts in my hands is almost all gone and knee and back pain gone completely 

I had fake Jin with the security code and fibers checking out as real. I wasted 2k 

Lesson learned ; even the most credible source checks cannot overcome the greed of foreign pharmacies who won't think twice about poisoning people and swindling those looking to better their lives. Bigger lesson learned; god/source/the universe has a plan for us all and we can accomplish anything we want naturally. There are no short cuts in life, you have to work hard to attain perfection, and bliss. 

Or, just be prepared to pay a lot, so what I mean is that shortcuts are expensive

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Just an update, I stopped taking 1.5 iu 2 weeks ago and feel myself again. The cts in my hands is almost all gone and knee and back pain gone completely 
> 
> I had fake Jin with the security code and fibers checking out as real. I wasted 2k 
> 
> Lesson learned ; even the most credible source checks cannot overcome the greed of foreign pharmacies who won't think twice about poisoning people and swindling those looking to better their lives. Bigger lesson learned; god/source/the universe has a plan for us all and we can accomplish anything we want naturally. There are no short cuts in life, you have to work hard to attain perfection, and bliss. 
> 
> Or, just be prepared to pay a lot, so what I mean is that shortcuts are expensive


That really sucks, seems like there attempts to create side effects with the junk is getting worse. It seemed unusual to me to have knee and back pain especially with such a low dose. There attempts at counterfeiting is terrible and who knows what they are putting in there to have such bad sides. I am sure they are not testing them out on themselves.

----------


## Facecrash

No you are right, we are the lab rats. And as you see from my prior posts they're monitoring this board to see how much heat is on them. I'm going to contact gensci directly and use my resources in the law to put more heat on them to prevent others from going through the agony I went through. It is dispicable. What's more awful are the pm messages from idiot board members asking me if I want to sell. Don't trust anyone... Even those who claim to be experts

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> No you are right, we are the lab rats. And as you see from my prior posts they're monitoring this board to see how much heat is on them. I'm going to contact gensci directly and use my resources in the law to put more heat on them to prevent others from going through the agony I went through. It is dispicable. What's more awful are the pm messages from idiot board members asking me if I want to sell. Don't trust anyone... Even those who claim to be "mods" or experts...
> 
> Without incriminating , I think there are people on this board that are in on this. I'm sorry to say it but the evidence is there


From as long as i have been involved with this thread, the mods etc. work full time to watch for people scamming and trying to sell etc. They are responsible for protecting this site and it would not be around long if they let things run rampid. I don't believe you will get very far with Gensci as they know that here in the US there is no one to complain to. if they were selling from the US it would be a problem, but when you buy from China, it is a risk they know you can not complain about. Myself along with others here have been preaching over and over "Do not buy from China". The problem is that many do not research until after the fact. Many of the profiles here can not be validated and mods vets etc. spend a lot of time trying to prevent these problems. i have stated before that this is for educational purposes. it is a shame what has happened to yourself and many others. I have found this site to be the most informative and not trying to sell. I have been on other sites and seen what they have endorsed. You have to use your own judgement and stay away from risks. If there is a risk involved, you proceed at your own risk.

----------


## marcus300

> No you are right, we are the lab rats. And as you see from my prior posts they're monitoring this board to see how much heat is on them. I'm going to contact gensci directly and use my resources in the law to put more heat on them to prevent others from going through the agony I went through. It is dispicable. What's more awful are the pm messages from idiot board members asking me if I want to sell. Don't trust anyone... Even those who claim to be "mods" or experts...
> 
> Without incriminating , I think there are people on this board that are in on this. I'm sorry to say it but the evidence is there


Ive never seen any evidence to say mods are involved in any kind of scam related to gh, if you have evidence please send me a pm explaining..Mod have always looked after the members that's why this thread was started and also exposed ankie and the suspicions about the Russians.

----------


## austinite

> No you are right, we are the lab rats. And as you see from my prior posts they're monitoring this board to see how much heat is on them. I'm going to contact gensci directly and use my resources in the law to put more heat on them to prevent others from going through the agony I went through. It is dispicable. What's more awful are the pm messages from idiot board members asking me if I want to sell. Don't trust anyone... Even those who claim to be "mods" or experts...
> 
> Without incriminating , I think there are people on this board that are in on this. I'm sorry to say it but the evidence is there


Why don't you elaborate a little more on your "mod" comment there. What evidence are you talking about, Face? If you can't provide more info then everything you say is worthless. So let's hear it or go in the 1 on 1 section and provide details. Certainly, being a member here, you naturally have the forum's best interest, correct?

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## Facecrash

What is the 1 on 1 section?

----------


## marcus300

http://forums.steroid.com/one-one-staff/

Here you can make a thread and no one will see it except staff.....

----------


## Facecrash

Edited my post. The mod that scammed me last year I was made aware he was banned. Also my post was an emotional one after being scammed again.

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## EasyDoesIt

> Edited my post. The mod that scammed me last year I was made aware he was banned. Also my post was an emotional one after being scammed again.


Well they did there job by banning him. We are here on cyberspace and difficult to control what paths people take in their lives. I remember seeing someone of mod level or something of a higher status had banned under his name and was surprised to see it. Sorry that happened.

----------


## mauler

> Just an update, I stopped taking 1.5 iu 2 weeks ago and feel myself again. The cts in my hands is almost all gone and knee and back pain gone completely 
> 
> I had fake Jin with the security code and fibers checking out as real. I wasted 2k 
> 
> Lesson learned ; even the most credible source checks cannot overcome the greed of foreign pharmacies who won't think twice about poisoning people and swindling those looking to better their lives. Bigger lesson learned; god/source/the universe has a plan for us all and we can accomplish anything we want naturally. There are no short cuts in life, you have to work hard to attain perfection, and bliss. 
> 
> Or, just be prepared to pay a lot, so what I mean is that shortcuts are expensive


another customer not satisfied with jins and it had security codes on them,,,,, did you get your money back bud

----------


## Hoplite

We all agreed that this British Dragon Humantropin stuff going around is most likely bogus? Only thing that gives me pause is I've used their steroids in the past and have been most impressed. They claim to becoming a legit manufacturer now and all, so just curious.

----------


## marcus300

Some discrepancy between Ukraine and Greece Jins. 

Shipment form the Ukraine - suspect fake


This is a shipment from Greece. notice the included printed document included. Notice the direction of the vials 


The left side with the documents is from Greece, and the right side is from Ukraine. Notice the opposite direction of the vials



These are the two boxes side by side. The box on the left is from Greece. The box on the right is from Ukraine. 
Notice the dark navy blue tone across the box. The blue colour tone on the right is darker. This is the same for all my kits received from Ukraine. Also notice the white box tone. The Ukraine box on the right does not have a bright white tone like the left from Greece. Also notice the blue tone on the left, legit the navy blue tone is lighter across the box. Also the box is a very bright white tone.





The batch codes match both Ukraine and Greece boxes. so if GenShi manufactured all these kits during the same manufacturing process, batch numbers, manufacturing dates, expire dates then why do the boxes not match between the Greece and Ukraine Shipments? A company like Genshi will have consistency with manufacturing box, printed ink, document inserts, direction of vials if they all came from the same plant

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## marcus300

The vial on the left is from Greece. The vial on the right is from Ukraine. Notice the ink printing on the top of the label on the right side vial does not match the label on the left from Greece. Also notice the red ink printing on the right side is crappy compared to the left side.




The box on the bottom is from Greece and the top is from Ukraine. They both have the hair fibers on them and are legit stickers. the fibers on both stickers are the same. Both the security code on these stickers did match on the GenShi website and is authentic. How the hell did the scammers get the real stickers or copy them. Even better how can they both match up on the Genshi website as legit? Maybe the scammers stole the stickers or GenShi is involved. Or this counterfeit has a inside source at GenShi to enter the numbers in. 



Make your own mind up

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## -Ender-

Thanks for the information Marcus. As always: You're on it!

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## LJ Diesel

Yes....I would agree that most is conterfeit. FYI....PPP-HGH is a source that claims to come out of China bnut is sent form NJ and is bunk. Does not cloud what so ever when reconstituting, does not pass a boil test for protein based peptides and is in a shotty non-vacuumed vial......beware.

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## @rt

Hello everyone, 

I am new here and have couple questions, seeking for advices and more info. I keep on reading about HGH and I found this thread. Almost done reading all of these 49 pages of reviews. So I'm on Kintropin for 6 weeks now. Numb fingers once in a while, mood seems to be better, etc, not even sure if I'm supposed to feel any side affects this soon. I am getting this from pretty reliable person that I know, who of course assures that its 100% genuine and he used it on himself for past year. I payed top dollar for this so I am thinking that probably it would be good to test this somewhere in the lab, to make sure I am not throwing my money away. I know this might be dumb question, but you think I won't get in trouble trying to bring this in person to some local lab asking to test this? Or its better to get myself tested couple hours after getting it into myself? Also, as I said I think I am overpaying for for this Kin, even if I am buying real stuff, and maybe its not the right place to ask this question, but can you give me at least some guidance where I should start looking for any reliable sites online where to buy this. I just don't want to start buying and waisting even more money from some random sites. If this is not appropriate question to ask on forum, sorry. Here are couple pictures of what I'm using. Thanks

----------


## @rt

Further I read about HGH, further I'm being led to the idea that what I'm using is Chinese stuff. And as I understand with this Chinese magic I'm using there are really slim chances that I will get any good results at all  :Smilie:  .Hard to believe, but I guess thats might be the case. Is it hard to get prescription for Pharm HGH in U.S.? Probably won't get an HGH prescription from a family doctor, right?  :Big Grin:

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## KRH

^^ - Firstly out of all the Chinese GH, why on earth would you choose the one that's been proved to be utter sh*t? Kigs have been known to be bunk for a while now, even sites promoting Chinese GH no longer sell Kigs. Kigs are defo fake and bunk.

Secondly, I don't think you have read this thread as the idea behind this thread is that you can't test for GH. If you read this thread you would have seen that blood tests don't prove anything, it's not like that fact was only posted once, it was posted in every other post.

Your supplier has pulled your pants down mate. I would try and take it back to him. Kigs are defo bunk and have been for a while. I'd suggest you to actually properly research GH, so that you don't waste more money.

Maybe you should test your Kigs, it might actually be beneficial, as we all know Kigs are bunk, so if they spike your GH and IGF levels then it proves the Chinese are definitely able to spike these levels as well as giving all the GH side effects. So far I haven't seen one brand of Chinese HGH that can spike these levels and produce the effects of GH and is proved as bunk. This would be a great test as you're getting all the GH effects, so if the levels are spiked then its really strong proof that the Chinese can do all this. I'm pretty sure the tests would show no spike in these levels because Kigs have already been tested and they didn't spike these levels, they just produced effects like GH.

As for getting an rx for GH, why bother? I've heard in US it's as easy as hanging around A I D S clinics and getting it from H I V patients. I heard in US they get pre scribed Sero and people get it off them cheaply.

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## marcus300

why are people still buying into cheap gh from china? come on guys stop wasting your money.

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## @rt

I got first and i think last kit from this person, because of course i didn't do proper research, before buying it. I am still willing to buy one more kit to get it tested, because its extremely hard to believe that person selling it to me would risk to ruin his good reputation with this stuff. I live in Chicago area, so I guess I would try going to some local Quest Diagnostics or Med-stop location to get blood tested. You think I should do it couple hours after injection or it doesn't matter?……I think at the end i will end up walking around some AIDS clinic and stalking patients  :Big Grin:

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> I got first and i think last kit from this person, because of course i didn't do proper research, before buying it. I am still willing to buy one more kit to get it tested, because its extremely hard to believe that person selling it to me would risk to ruin his good reputation with this stuff. I live in Chicago area, so I guess I would try going to some local Quest Diagnostics or Med-stop location to get blood tested. You think I should do it couple hours after injection or it doesn't matter?……I think at the end i will end up walking around some AIDS clinic and stalking patients


It's complete crap, but if you want to throw some more money away, go ahead. It doesn't matter about your source risking his rep. Usually they either know it is junk, say it's just not as good as pharm or blame it on their source when there customer discovers it's junk. JUNK-JUNK-JUNK end of conversation.

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## KRH

> It's complete crap, but if you want to throw some more money away, go ahead. It doesn't matter about your source risking his rep. Usually they either know it is junk, say it's just not as good as pharm or blame it on their source when there customer discovers it's junk. JUNK-JUNK-JUNK end of conversation.


I agree it's complete junk. However a test isn't a waste of money, it will be beneficial in many ways. If his levels aren't increased which is more than likely going to be the case then it'd be proof that he can't argue with, so it will allow him to learn from his mistakes. If his levels are raised then it will be proof that the Chinese are very capable of spiking these levels as well as producing all the effects of HGH. Kigs have already been proved to be bunk, so if his levels are raised then it will show him just what the Chinese are capable of.

----------


## marcus300

They use igf and other peps so blood work is pointless. Too many variables with blood tests. 

Please read the whole thread its worth it to anyone considering taking Chinese junk

----------


## KRH

> They use igf and other peps so blood work is pointless. Too many variables with blood tests. 
> 
> Please read the whole thread its worth it to anyone considering taking Chinese junk


Please can you tell me which peps they use? I've seen this being stated many of times yet no one can say which peps it is that they use.

I've read the whole thread and although there's some good info here, there's not a lot of evidence. The first 20 pages of this thread was all opinions. As the thread progressed I haven't seen many opinions being backed up by evidence. 

I did take your advice that you gave me earlier on and I went for pharma grade HGH. I managed to run Humatrope for a short period of time, it was great however I couldn't afford to keep it up, so I decided to use the Hyge that I bought but never used. I ran them at 4iu ED and although the effects weren't as good as Humatrope, there wasn't a massive difference like everyone was saying there'd be. I know my Humatrope wasn't bunk as it came from a friend with a script and it did work effectively, it just didn't seem that much better than Hyge.

If it's not HGH what could it actually be? Peps? Which peps? I see this question being asked a lot but it always gets avoided.

----------


## @rt

Yeah so thats what sucks, even if i pick up another kit and try to get my blood tested, I won't get really accurate results as I understand. I am trying to get some more info about thin Kin, because as I know it comes form Asia, but not from China. Would be hard to believe I'm using HGH, but maybe than peptides.

----------


## marcus300

> Please can you tell me which peps they use? I've seen this being stated many of times yet no one can say which peps it is that they use.
> 
> I've read the whole thread and although there's some good info here, there's not a lot of evidence. The first 20 pages of this thread was all opinions. As the thread progressed I haven't seen many opinions being backed up by evidence. 
> 
> I did take your advice that you gave me earlier on and I went for pharma grade HGH. I managed to run Humatrope for a short period of time, it was great however I couldn't afford to keep it up, so I decided to use the Hyge that I bought but never used. I ran them at 4iu ED and although the effects weren't as good as Humatrope, there wasn't a massive difference like everyone was saying there'd be. I know my Humatrope wasn't bunk as it came from a friend with a script and it did work effectively, it just didn't seem that much better than Hyge.
> 
> If it's not HGH what could it actually be? Peps? Which peps? I see this question being asked a lot but it always gets avoided.


Your not going to see great results in such a short time it takes months. They put in igf and the other growth hormone releasing agents what you cab buy at any research lab. 

Stay with pharn grade imho and if you read them thread you will see even the pharm grade gh fake the underground market. Do as you please but o advice pharn end of story

----------


## @rt

Its easy to say, stick with pharm grade HGH, its been two months I cannot find a contact where to get some. I know that in forum prices and sources cannot be discussed, so I won't ask for numbers, but does good grade pharm HGH cost a lot more than generic? I heard that for pharm grade HGH original prices quadruple for sale in market, right?

----------


## KRH

> Your not going to see great results in such a short time it takes months. They put in igf and the other growth hormone releasing agents what you cab buy at any research lab. 
> 
> Stay with pharn grade imho and if you read them thread you will see even the pharm grade gh fake the underground market. Do as you please but o advice pharn end of story


Don't get me wrong it felt good and I got results, it wasn't that short of a cycle. 

Also this is why pharma grade HGH is still as risky as buying Chinese HGH as there's even more fakes with pharma grade, look at Norditropin for example or Serostim. 

There's never any specific peps mentioned and again it seems like you and others don't like talking about it, I've seen someone ask this question before and someone always replies with something along the lines of; 'read the thread' or something like that as they don't want to further discuss this subject. Surely that's what this thread is about? Why would you say end of story when this is what this thread is about? It's not like this question has been answered with specifics, it's just answered with non specific answers.

----------


## marcus300

> Don't get me wrong it felt good and I got results, it wasn't that short of a cycle. 
> 
> Also this is why pharma grade HGH is still as risky as buying Chinese HGH as there's even more fakes with pharma grade, look at Norditropin for example or Serostim. 
> 
> There's never any specific peps mentioned and again it seems like you and others don't like talking about it, I've seen someone ask this question before and someone always replies with something along the lines of; 'read the thread' or something like that as they don't want to further discuss this subject. Surely that's what this thread is about? Why would you say end of story when this is what this thread is about? It's not like this question has been answered with specifics, it's just answered with non specific answers.


I've just told you. You obviously don't know what growth hormone releasing agents are. They put in peps such as igf, cjc, GHRP etc to throw off blood tests. For me it's end of storyand common sense if you don't think so you carry on buying genetics. i also have repeated myself many times in this thread if you can't see the evidence then fine. Best of luck

----------


## KRH

> I've just told you. You obviously don't know what growth hormone releasing agents are. They put in peps such as igf, cjc, GHRP etc to throw off blood tests. For me it's end of storyand common sense if you don't think so you carry on buying genetics. i also have repeated myself many times in this thread if you can't see the evidence then fine. Best of luck


Evidence? Right please point me to one piece of strong evidence posted in this thread? It's all opinions just like your other thread about Hyge containing no HGH, I made a post in that thread which you chose to ignore as it was the truth. It's always the same answers, you and others always complain that you've repeated yourselves many of times yet you never have done. There's no evidence in this thread, it's all opinions. so please let me know when strong evidence is posted in this thread, thanks and best of luck to you as well.

----------


## marcus300

There is loads of evidence all the way through this thread if you can't see it I'm not going through it all and listing it. I think you may have missed it just like you did with the peps which you failed to see. I'm not arguing with you but it's very plain to see to me. I've used pharn grade and genetics for over 20yrs and I know and it's all over this thread from over people. Mounting complaints from various members does show evidence also helps weigh on the side of fakes. 

I was frustrated like yourself when I first found out but all you can do is buy loads of generic and use it and see what you think in 18 months time. 

Best of luck with that

----------


## @rt

Best of luck to everyone then  :Big Grin:

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Evidence? Right please point me to one piece of strong evidence posted in this thread? It's all opinions just like your other thread about Hyge containing no HGH, I made a post in that thread which you chose to ignore as it was the truth. It's always the same answers, you and others always complain that you've repeated yourselves many of times yet you never have done. There's no evidence in this thread, it's all opinions. so please let me know when strong evidence is posted in this thread, thanks and best of luck to you as well.


I was burnt and explained my experiences more than once on this thread, glad you like what you have keep using it and keep buying more. As far as pharm grade i would not buy off the net myself, if it did not come from a script i would not buy it. Those companies stay in business selling to guys who believe it's good. You get what you pay for. Real HGH is just not affordable for most people.

----------


## DPTUK

> I was burnt and explained my experiences more than once on this thread, glad you like what you have keep using it and keep buying more. As far as pharm grade i would not buy off the net myself, if it did not come from a script i would not buy it. Those companies stay in business selling to guys who believe it's good. You get what you pay for. Real HGH is just not affordable for most people.


I have no idea what the situation is like in the states. However, when my doc first wrote my script I went to the local pharmacy to obtain prices for what I needed. No need for me to say the that prices from the pharmacy were extortionate! I went back and discussed this with my doc and he put me in touch with the wholesaler that actually supplies the high street pharmacies in the UK and the prices were 50% less than what the high street pharmacies were charging for the same exact product.

You need to find the wholesalers that supply the high street pharmacies and build up a relationship there if possible.

----------


## KRH

> I was burnt and explained my experiences more than once on this thread, glad you like what you have keep using it and keep buying more. As far as pharm grade i would not buy off the net myself, if it did not come from a script i would not buy it. Those companies stay in business selling to guys who believe it's good. You get what you pay for. Real HGH is just not affordable for most people.


Still it's not evidence it's opinions. Likewise, I got it from someone with a script, buying of the net is one way to get scammed. You do indeed get what you pay for, let's leave it at that.




> I have no idea what the situation is like in the states. However, when my doc first wrote my script I went to the local pharmacy to obtain prices for what I needed. No need for me to say the that prices from the pharmacy were extortionate! I went back and discussed this with my doc and he put me in touch with the wholesaler that actually supplies the high street pharmacies in the UK and the prices were 50% less than what the high street pharmacies were charging for the same exact product.
> 
> You need to find the wholesalers that supply the high street pharmacies and build up a relationship there if possible.


Where did you doc get his licence from Toys R Us? Sounds like he shouldn't be advising anyone if he hands out HGH like candy, does he make a few pennies on the sideline for his sneaky referral?

----------


## Mp859

> Evidence? Right please point me to one piece of strong evidence posted in this thread? It's all opinions just like your other thread about Hyge containing no HGH, I made a post in that thread which you chose to ignore as it was the truth. It's always the same answers, you and others always complain that you've repeated yourselves many of times yet you never have done. There's no evidence in this thread, it's all opinions. so please let me know when strong evidence is posted in this thread, thanks and best of luck to you as well.


I think members experience is all the evidence you need. I recently bought a kit of gh from china. I have used some generics in the past with good results. I used the same source me and my buddy have used before and this time was sent crap. GHRP-6

Luckily I only ordered one kit for a tester. China sends crap now.

I picked up some serostim last week and have never looked back.

By your Chinese gh and post your results here please.

----------


## @rt

> I think members experience is all the evidence you need. I recently bought a kit of gh from china. I have used some generics in the past with good results. I used the same source me and my buddy have used before and this time was sent crap. GHRP-6
> 
> Luckily I only ordered one kit for a tester. China sends crap now.
> 
> I picked up some serostim last week and have never looked back.
> 
> By your Chinese gh and post your results here please.


I will do that, because when today from my source i found out the price for pharm grade Serostim, I decided to stick with this Chinese stuff and see what happens. Im not that rich.

----------


## marcus300

> I will do that, because when today from my source i found out the price for pharm grade Serostim, I decided to stick with this Chinese stuff and see what happens. Im not that rich.


False economy. Your better not taking anything than risking your health with those genetics. Or go and buy some peps because they do put in some kind of anti diuretic hormone which will send your bp sky high the longer your on it. Safe the money and put it towards pharm when you can afford it

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> I will do that, because when today from my source i found out the price for pharm grade Serostim, I decided to stick with this Chinese stuff and see what happens. Im not that rich.


Perfect example of why they keep making this crap that is not HGH. They know that real HGH is not affordable to most, yet they want it, so they make something else. As mp859 stated, after the junk with ghrp-6 in it, he bought Serostim and never looked back. Please i do not want to hear this hearsay shi... If you are taking real hgh, your blood sugar will not get out of whack within 20 minutes of injecting, bs whacked out to a point where your sweating and need to eat again even though you just ate 1/2 hour before. Nor the more you take the more water weight you will gain. i gained 10 plus pounds of water, i think it was actually 12lbs. It's not hear say it is what happened to me. Real hgh will improve skin, hair, wellness and keep bodyfat down. I have been off HGH for almost a year now (sero) and i can physically see the difference in my body. I am not as lean and keeping my waist down is much harder. I took 2iu's per day, sometimes bumping it up to 3.

----------


## @rt

> False economy. Your better not taking anything than risking your health with those genetics. Or go and buy some peps because they do put in some kind of anti diuretic hormone which will send your bp sky high the longer your on it. Safe the money and put it towards pharm when you can afford it


I agree, not saying that this is right thing to do, but I want to risk it and try to run this for about 10-12 weeks and see what happens. I was talking about this with my source for hours, couple days ago, he has been using that himself for 12 months now, and told me that results will start showing up in 6-8 weeks from start date. So I decided not to do use anything else but only this Kin and regular supplements, to check if there is any noticeable improvements. I know that chances are slim, but I will keep everyone posted.

----------


## marcus300

> I agree, not saying that this is right thing to do, but I want to risk it and try to run this for about 10-12 weeks and see what happens. I was talking about this with my source for hours, couple days ago, he has been using that himself for 12 months now, and told me that results will start showing up in 6-8 weeks from start date. So I decided not to do use anything else but only this Kin and regular supplements, to check if there is any noticeable improvements. I know that chances are slim, but I will keep everyone posted.


Your source hasn't got a clue what he's saying and the worse thing you can do is ask advice from your source. You wouldn't see results in that time with real gh but you will see something with fakes. 

Lol I give up

----------


## KRH

> I think members experience is all the evidence you need. I recently bought a kit of gh from china. I have used some generics in the past with good results. I used the same source me and my buddy have used before and this time was sent crap. GHRP-6
> 
> Luckily I only ordered one kit for a tester. China sends crap now.
> 
> I picked up some serostim last week and have never looked back.
> 
> By your Chinese gh and post your results here please.


So because you and others have a crap source it means all of Chinese GH is fake? This is what I'm talking about, there's so many strong opinions in this thread backed up by no evidence. Do you know what evidence means? More to the point, do you know the difference between a fact and an opinion? 

You said you have good results, so I take it you were on your fake GH for a while, surely you'd notice you were taking GHRP-6, if I remember correctly, it makes you really hungry, surely this might have made you question it? Secondly I like to make sure to get bloodwork done frequently, that way I can monitor my levels and watch for anything unusual, maybe you should have done the same. 

Also serostim is one of the most faked brands of GH around, what makes you think that's not fake crap as well? 

I do buy my Chinese GH and I monitor my bloodwork constantly, it does as it's supposed to, I'm happy and that's all that matters. I'm following the trend of this thread and posting my opinions rather than evidence as it seems like that's what this thread is all about. 

Prove me wrong, tell me exactly what magical chemicals the Chinese are throwing in to mimic the exact effects and bloodwork of GH and then I'll believe you. You won't be able to do this as it's not possible, there's nothing that can mimic the identical effects of GH while giving bloodworks that match that of Humatrope.

----------


## Mp859

I had good results from generics of the past. I don feel like china exports real gh at all anymore just buy some generics. I'm sorry you are very butthurt because you can't afford legit gh. Get over it and move on please this is not debatable

I told you already. Ghrp,igf-1,albumin for gh serum or hgh 192

You sound like an angry china man to me.

----------


## KRH

> I had good results from generics of the past. I don feel like china exports real gh at all anymore just buy some generics. I'm sorry you are very butthurt because you can't afford legit gh. Get over it and move on please this is not debatable
> 
> I told you already. Ghrp,igf-1,albumin for gh serum or hgh 192
> 
> You sound like an angry china man to me.


See can't have a sensible discussing? How old are you 12? I can afford Humatrope, it's just not very cost effective when the Chinese can also produce HGH, common sense is lacking for some people. 

Let's just think about this for a second. 

Chinese HGH gives; good results, the same effects as real HGH and the same bloodwork as HGH, so why the f*** would you spend triple the times more on something that has a pharmacy label on it. It sounds to me that you're angry that you've wasted money on something that can be bought a hell of a lot cheaper, haha you moron!

Oh right that's funny I've tried both igf-1 and ghrp as they were suggested as being the peps the Chinese use and guess what, it didn't give the same bloodwork neither did it give the same effects. So you're wrong there, just more conspiracy BS that has no evidence behind it. This thread proves nothing and member like you are angry about it and get overly defensive about anyone questioning your stupid flawed logic.

You sound like someone who was hired by pharmacy companies to ruin the reputation of all Chinese HGH, to increase the sales of pharmacy HGH.

----------


## Mp859

> See can't have a sensible discussing? How old are you 12? I can afford Humatrope, it's just not very cost effective when the Chinese can also produce HGH, common sense is lacking for some people.
> 
> Let's just think about this for a second.
> 
> Chinese HGH gives; good results, the same effects as real HGH and the same bloodwork as HGH, so why the f*** would you spend triple the times more on something that has a pharmacy label on it. It sounds to me that you're angry that you've wasted money on something that can be bought a hell of a lot cheaper, haha you moron!
> 
> Oh right that's funny I've tried both igf-1 and ghrp as they were suggested as being the peps the Chinese use and guess what, it didn't give the same bloodwork neither did it give the same effects. So you're wrong there, just more conspiracy BS that has no evidence behind it. This thread proves nothing and member like you are angry about it and get overly defensive about anyone questioning your stupid flawed logic.
> 
> You sound like someone who was hired by pharmacy companies to ruin the reputation of all Chinese HGH, to increase the sales of pharmacy HGH.


Yes I'm 12.

And unfortunately you have been duped by china.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> *You sound like someone who was hired by pharmacy companies to ruin the reputation of all Chinese HGH, to increase the sales of pharmacy HGH.*


The pharmacies do not need hgh to be pushed on this forum, but you sound like someone working for just the opposite. KEEP TAKING YOUR CRAP AND PUSH IT ELSEWHERE!

----------


## KRH

> Yes I'm 12.


Haha wow bet you will get a few likes for that 3 worder. You're so funny, I could just cry laughing at how you wasted money on HGH that has a badge on it. 

Face it, you don't know how to reply sensibly because you're not smart enough and you're wrong so instead you post something that you fin d funny, oh well at least it gives you a break from watching donkey porn in your mums basement. Good luck and bye.




> The pharmacies do not need hgh to be pushed on this forum, but you sound like someone working for just the opposite. KEEP TAKING YOUR CRAP AND PUSH IT ELSEWHERE!


Oh really? So a forum with the amount of traffic this forum gets isn't doing pharmacy companies any favours? They're a company, their aim is to make money, what planet do you live on? You must be ignorant and stubborn if you don't think this thread hasn't made them a few sales, indirectly or directly, it doesn't matter. 

As for your accusations, I buy straight from the Chinese manufacturers, I buy for my own personal use, HGH is illegal in most countries, so I don't fancy going to jail, I have a job that I value and want to keep, thanks.

----------


## Mp859

> The pharmacies do not need hgh to be pushed on this forum, but you sound like someone working for just the opposite. KEEP TAKING YOUR CRAP AND PUSH IT ELSEWHERE!


I agree that's why I called him an angry china man

----------


## Mp859

You're not even worth arguing with


Nobody is buying into your Chinese gh bull$hit

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> See can't have a sensible discussing? How old are you 12? I can afford Humatrope, it's just not very cost effective when the Chinese can also produce HGH, common sense is lacking for some people.


And real experience with the varying brands of gh, especially pharm gh is lacking for others. You have run pharm gh right?




> Let's just think about this for a second. 
> 
> Chinese HGH gives; good results, the same effects as real HGH and the same bloodwork as HGH, so why the f*** would you spend triple the times more on something that has a pharmacy label on it. It sounds to me that you're angry that you've wasted money on something that can be bought a hell of a lot cheaper


Who says generics yield the same effects as pharm GH? You?? Anyone experienced with gh would disagree with that even the guys who run generics and believe them to be legit. Whether it be because the body creates antibodies to the generics more rapidly and easier, or because they are less bio-available due to the 191aa structure being slightly different there is no doubt that these are not bio-identical hormones nor yield the same results as pharm gh. 




> haha you moron!


Thanks for not flaming, it's against the board rules and can result in banning. I'd say a person who is constantly forking over money and receiving an inferior (or completely useless) product than what he's paying for would be a bigger moron anyway.....




> Oh right that's funny I've tried both igf-1 and ghrp as they were suggested as being the peps the Chinese use and guess what, it didn't give the same bloodwork neither did it give the same effects. So you're wrong there, just more conspiracy BS that has no evidence behind it. This thread proves nothing and member like you are angry about it and get overly defensive about anyone questioning your stupid flawed logic. You sound like someone who was hired by pharmacy companies to ruin the reputation of all Chinese HGH, to increase the sales of pharmacy HGH.


If you're happy with your chinese generics you should keep running them but save you're argumentative propaganda bs for those who are naive enough to believe it.

----------


## KRH

> And real experience with the varying brands of gh, especially pharm gh is lacking for others. You have run pharm gh right?
> 
> Who says generics yield the same effects as pharm GH? You?? Anyone experienced with gh would disagree with that even the guys who run generics and believe them to be legit. Whether it be because the body creates antibodies to the generics more rapidly and easier, or because they are less bio-available due to the 191aa structure being slightly different there is no doubt that these are not bio-identical hormones nor yield the same results as pharm gh. 
> 
> Thanks for not flaming, it's against the board rules and can result in banning. I'd say a person who is constantly forking over money and receiving an inferior (or completely useless) product than what he's paying for would be a bigger moron anyway.....
> 
> If you're happy with your chinese generics you should keep running them but save you're argumentative propaganda bs for those who are naive enough to believe it.


Read my posts again, I've ran Humatrope.

Me plus many others have noticed the effects are the same. 

Look who started the flaming first, I tried to have a sensible discussion as I thought this is what this thread was all about, but because 2 idiots disagreed with me, they threw accusations and name calling my way. 

So I can't state my opinions? Isn't that what this whole thread is based on, opinions? Please show me one piece of solid evidence posted in this thread, how many times do I have to ask for someone to show me solid evidence, no one ever does, I wonder why? 

If I can't give my opinion on Chinese HGH without being accused of selling something, then I wouldn't call this a non biased thread, would you?

----------


## DPTUK

> Read my posts again, I've ran Humatrope.
> 
> Me plus many others have noticed the effects are the same. 
> 
> Look who started the flaming first, I tried to have a sensible discussion as I thought this is what this thread was all about, but because 2 idiots disagreed with me, they threw accusations and name calling my way. 
> 
> So I can't state my opinions? Isn't that what this whole thread is based on, opinions? Please show me one piece of solid evidence posted in this thread, how many times do I have to ask for someone to show me solid evidence, no one ever does, I wonder why? 
> 
> If I can't give my opinion on Chinese HGH without being accused of selling something, then I wouldn't call this a non biased thread, would you?



Look even if we play's devil's advocate here for one second and lets just assume hypothetically that you can obtain legitimate generic GH from China, the mere transportation process from China to your doorstep in itself would make the GH redundant and useless.

On my human grade Genotropin instruction leaflet it clearly states keep the GH refrigerated but do not freeze and do not shake whatsoever as this can make the GH redundant!

How on earth can you possibly account for what temperatures the GH you get have been stored at or that they haven't they been rigorously shaken up in the transportation process from China to you?

Genuine human grade GH is delivered if via courier from legitimate pharmacies using specialist medical courier companies that take into account the delicacies involved.

Whatever was you look at it, not one of the arguments you present any logical sense and respectfully I would say to you that you are in denial.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> If I can't give my opinion on Chinese HGH without being accused of selling something, then I wouldn't call this a non biased thread, would you?


Your opinions are welcomed. 

The flaming and angry china man bickering isn't.

----------


## KRH

> Look even if we play's devil's advocate here for one second and lets just assume hypothetically that you can obtain legitimate generic GH from China, the mere transportation process from China to your doorstep in itself would make the GH redundant and useless.
> 
> On my human grade Genotropin instruction leaflet it clearly states keep the GH refrigerated but do not freeze and do not shake whatsoever as this can make the GH redundant!
> 
> How on earth can you possibly account for what temperatures the GH you get have been stored at or that they haven't they been rigorously shaken up in the transportation process from China to you?
> 
> Genuine human grade GH is delivered if via courier from legitimate pharmacies using specialist medical courier companies that take into account the delicacies involved.
> 
> Whatever was you look at it, not one of the arguments you present any logical sense and respectfully I would say to you that you are in denial.


Actually you're the one person I can say is definitely pushing pharmacy grade HGH. In all most every post you're advertising the fact that you've got Genotropin, you even created a whole thread on it. You are obviously hoping for users to PM you, so that you can sell it to them.

Let's forget about you're selling of Genotropin for a second. To answer your questions:

Whenever I order my GH, it comes in isothermal packaging, it's packed very well, so it can't move. Of course any package can be damaged in transit, but that's just stupid, so could pharmacy grade HGH or anything for that matter. Wow so your calling all Chinese GH fake because of your paranoia of couriers? Well to be fair your point makes about as much sense as the rest of this nonsensical thread.

Also you're wrong Genotropin can be kept at room temp for 1 month, read their site.

Has anyone here ever been to China? Because I have. If China are not capable of manufacturing HGH, then how on earth would they cope? China has a large population, with any population there will be medical problems, China also has people who suffer from GH deficiency. They don't prescribe American brands in China, they prescribe their own Chinese HGH to GH deficient patients. Some of these patients are GH deficient children, now there's no way in hell that fake HGH would ever combat a child's deficiency problems and allow them to grow at a normal rate, fake HGH wouldn't work for GH deficient children. So calling all Chinese HGH fake just because respected members here have had bad luck with it is incredibly narrow minded. China isn't Somalia, they have proper medical equipment and proper medicines.




> Your opinions are welcomed. 
> 
> The flaming and angry china man bickering isn't.


Then maybe you should quote Mp859 then, check out post 1958, who started the name calling flaming?

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> You're not even worth arguing with
> 
> 
> Nobody is buying into your Chinese gh bull$hit


I agree a waste of data usage. Even a good MMA fighter knows when to tap out.

----------


## DPTUK

> I agree a waste of data usage. Even a good MMA fighter knows when to tap out.


Couldn't have put it better myself, I am however curious as to what the forum stance is members making libelous accusations?

----------


## Mp859

I don't understand why someone would try so hard to prove there product is legit. If you believe it is legit then continue using it.

THE END

----------


## @rt

> I don't understand why someone would try so hard to prove there product is legit. If you believe it is legit then continue using it.
> 
> THE END


Not trying to take sides here, but I think this thread was based on idea, to prove if Chinese make legit HGH. KRH states that there are no proofs here, only opinions stated. So I guess, if he can prove that legit Chinese HGH still can reach US borders that would be awesome to know, if no facts can be given from KRH, lets stick with opinions. And if there are only opinions and no facts, then no point to argue about this.

----------


## Mp859

Personal experience=proof 


I went and bought a kit AFTER the warning from Marcus and was glad I only bought one kit. 

Can you post your bloods just for the helll of it?

----------


## KRH

> I agree a waste of data usage. Even a good MMA fighter knows when to tap out.


You mean you got proved wrong and you're pissed about it? 




> Couldn't have put it better myself, I am however curious as to what the forum stance is members making libelous accusations?


The accusations I'm making are correct. You're full of crap, you posted how your doctor just gives you Genotropin because you asked for it, then you post that he has given you contacts that sell you Genotropin for a cheaper price, in the UK that wouldn't happen. No doctor in the right mind would risk his £50k+/year job for the sake of prescribing you something that you don't need. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but I know in the UK this wouldn't happen. It's very obvious that your trying to lure users into your scam. You want them to PM you so that you can scam them. There's no accusations here, it's the truth and it's obvious. 




> I don't understand why someone would try so hard to prove there product is legit. If you believe it is legit then continue using it.
> 
> THE END


There's a flip side to this coin, why would someone go extremely out of there way (50 page thread full of false opinions) to prove Chinese are fake? I was simply adding my opinions and experience to this thread, all of a sudden I get flamed by members like you. Your over defensive attitude shows that this thread is clearly biased. There was another absolutely ridiculous thread posted about Hyge containing no HGH and I made a post in that, because the whole proof came from a dodgy looking site that had laughable proof. The fact there's multiple threads created about the same subject and the fact that if anyone disagrees with this wild theory they get attacked, shows me that there's clearly only one motive by members of this forum. I'm pretty sure some of them have been hired by pharmacy companies, I'm not even joking. I've seen it before, because the Chinese are able to make something for so much cheaper, other non Chinese companies can't compete, so they hire people to ruin the reputation of these companies. It's called ORM (Online Reputation Management), ORM means that they will buy certain people to slag off the reputation of certain companies, in this case Chinese companies producing HGH. 




> Not trying to take sides here, but I think this thread was based on idea, to prove if Chinese make legit HGH. KRH states that there are no proofs here, only opinions stated. So I guess, if he can prove that legit Chinese HGH still can reach US borders that would be awesome to know, if no facts can be given from KRH, lets stick with opinions. And if there are only opinions and no facts, then no point to argue about this.


You are not getting the point. It's the opposite way around, this thread is about proving Chinese HGH is fake, so the evidence should be posted by the people making accusations, so far there's 50 pages and no solid evidence for such strong claims. Do you not find this slightly concerning? Also just look this forum, someone outsmarted one of these so called 'Senior' members before, I can't find the thread but I will edit my post if I find the thread, but basically someone was asking the same questions as me and they got the same answer about China using peps to throw the bloodwork off. However, this member posted facts about the peps not being able to elevate the IGF levels for more than a certain time, the 'Senior' member was proved wrong so he just ignored this post and it died. This is just one of the many examples about the biased posting that goes on here at this forum. 

I'm not the one making very strong claims, it's the people calling all Chinese HGH fake that are the ones who should be posting solid evidence.

----------


## marcus300

> So because you and others have a crap source it means all of Chinese GH is fake? This is what I'm talking about, there's so many strong opinions in this thread backed up by no evidence. Do you know what evidence means? More to the point, do you know the difference between a fact and an opinion? 
> 
> You said you have good results, so I take it you were on your fake GH for a while, surely you'd notice you were taking GHRP-6, if I remember correctly, it makes you really hungry, surely this might have made you question it? Secondly I like to make sure to get bloodwork done frequently, that way I can monitor my levels and watch for anything unusual, maybe you should have done the same. 
> 
> Also serostim is one of the most faked brands of GH around, what makes you think that's not fake crap as well? 
> 
> I do buy my Chinese GH and I monitor my bloodwork constantly, it does as it's supposed to, I'm happy and that's all that matters. I'm following the trend of this thread and posting my opinions rather than evidence as it seems like that's what this thread is all about. 
> 
> Prove me wrong, tell me exactly what magical chemicals the Chinese are throwing in to mimic the exact effects and bloodwork of GH and then I'll believe you. You won't be able to do this as it's not possible, there's nothing that can mimic the identical effects of GH while giving bloodworks that match that of Humatrope.


This thread wasn't started to bash generic gh is was started because there was concerns related to Chinese gh it grow and things developed due to the mounting evidence or should I say opinions lol, why on earth you cant comprehend why and what this thread is about is beyond me and shows how little you understand and know.



You clearly haven't read the whole thread because you will see it evolved and the concerns turn into real solid evidence opps I mean opinions lol, You know when 100 people have concerns about something and start exploring why they are experiencing some strange sides, no sides, no results or dangerous sides opinions turn into evidence, the side of caution prevails. Let me try and help you with your understanding because you do lack a hell of a lot of knowledge on the subject which is seen from your previous posts



You started your first gh cycle on the 8/8/13 




> Hi,
> 
> I will soon be starting my first HGH cycle. I am 31, 6ft, 205lbs and about 12% BF. I am just curious if I took 8iu's for 3 days a week, would the sides be worst than taking 4ius for 6 days a week? They both add up to 24iu's a week, so wouldn't the side effects be the same? How quickly do the common side effects occur e.g swollen hands? 
> 
> Preferably I don't want to start with 2iu's ED as the less injections the better. I am not afraid of injections I am just not a big fan of them, but I am not letting this discourage me from HGH. I know it's a pretty stupid reason. 
> 
> Thanks any advice is really appreciated.


 

The gh you was planning on using were hyges which is a company which isn't even regulated in China it produces gh for the underground market, ive use them before bought directly from there lab but they produce all types of fakes, the evidence opps opinions all over the internet on other forums not just this one shows something is drastically wrong with hyges and the other generics. That's why this thread was started not to bash but to explore what's happening, if you really read the whole thread you will see this but with your tunnel vision and only allowing yourself to see what you want to read you have very closed opinions. You didn't even know what growth releasing agents were so how on earth can you even think anyone is going to listen or take your opinion in from someone who has zero knowledge zero experience and lack of common sense. Even you thought they were fake after you read part of this thread.






> Yeah I think I'll give my Hyges a miss. I'll try and dispose of them later. My supplier also has Serostim GH, have you tried that? 
> 
> If nothing else I've learnt something new today. I knew about the HCG scam but I didn't know the whole Hyge think was a scam. It makes you wonder who you can trust these days.



8/12/13




> Yeah I'm sorry, I went off on one. It won't happen again. You're 100% right, I have decided to give Hyge as miss and I'm now about to get pharma grade GH, I just really hope I don't get some fake knock off Omnitrope gh.




Many of the guys like myself have been using generic and pharm grade for years, do you hear this correctly YEARS ive been using pharm/generic for 20+ years and been training for around 28 years. I use to use the best source available in china. I use to buy 10k per month directly and they openly told me as the yrs went on they can offer me every box on the market, every single label on the market and every single shape of vial and coloured top I want. My contact even told me the gh wasn't real gh because now after the shutdown after the Olympics things have got tough and they have started to make some compounds what produce and mimics gh sides. This is when I lost confidence. You have been using weeks, even if you tried pharm grade you have no idea what real gh does to you and how it can transform your body because you haven't spent enough time on the gh you first cycle of gh was on the 8/8/13 or that's when you was talking about going on so its much later than that. Your playing at it and your foolish responses show how frustrated you are. 



I even went direct to the licence manufacturers like jins and AnkBio etc and they even started to turn out bad, Ankbio even paid me 1000ius to keep my mouth shut on the forum, they did this with another member who also use to buy a lot from them. They even had an advert on their web page telling people to be aware of fakes from this other company but when you looked into it the other company had the same bank details as the main site but within 2 months that was changed because they knew they made a mistake, same vials, same boxes but the product not the same. They were bang at it and it shows in this thread via the emails I and others had something was seriously wrong with even the pharma stuff.


What happens is they are willing to produce and sell fakes to the underground even the regulated companies because we cant do anything about it. Do you really think these generic companies what are set up to sell to the underground have the equipment to make these hormones active. It costs millions of $'s for the equipment and they biggest counterfeit country in the world who poisons its own people aren't going to sell clean 100% real deal gh to the underground..



I have told you time and time again read the thread but I know you haven't because you would see the evidence opps sorry opinions of a lof of people's experiences. You would of seen and learnt that testing for gh/igf levels is a mine field and the chances of a accurate reading are very slim. Have you had 3 baseline tests done at the same time and blood tested at the exact same time??? I will answer for you NO you haven't because if you did you will see even the natural gh pulse or igf and blood test are not that accurate, over 3 tests you would get 3 different readings. If you have done your research which I am no doing for you like you keep crying people to do for you that yes peps can show some good readings, can show more or similar readings. 


You would of also seen many members posted strange and bizarre sides, this isn't one person its a group of members who started sharing their experience and sides, some have dangerous sides like the increased bp which takes them to some serious life threatening levels, my friend was nearly hospitalized with it after 6months worth of generics. Other guys reports zero sides and some others report serious CTS what goes on for months and months. Other report weight gain and an increased level of water retention. Even some reported gyno after they stopped the gh again two of my friends reported this with generics which clearly shows they had an estrogen rebound due to the so called gh being some kind of AI what would strip the water and estrogen out of the body, which in some inexperienced people like yourself think would be a result. To the inexperienced like yourself these sides would be results and good to go gh but for the experienced guy who has used pharm grade for many months/years will understand gh doesn't do these types of things.



What happened the market was flooded with generics what mimic gh sides, they also produce some gains or what they thought were gains due to the increased weight or drop of weight. Some are plain peps which will give and throw off blood test and yes they do produce some high reading which have been posted. What do you think a large number of people giving their opinion and experience on a certain product is?? come on oh wise one who's been using gh since 8/8/13??? if a new steroid came out what you never used before lets call it cvntaroid and you ask for advice/opinions on that drug and you get 25 members or more, lets say 50+ members saying its rubbish, didn't gain anything, give me bad sides, had to stop due to feeling unwell etc you get what I am saying don't you? then you get 2 guys saying they gained. Now looking at the OPINIONS and experience of the majority would you say the evidence points to the drug being sh1t? yes the mounting evidence shows you that it isn't worth trying or risking, the opinions turn into evidence if the amount of opinions and views show the weight is on the side of caution for the drug, so that turns into real solid evidence. What do you think the opinions of people are in a court setting is, they telling their side of the story that they saw a certain person at the scene of a crime, say 15 people give their opinion that they saw his car or the saw someone wearing the same clothes, or the saw someone look like him running away, what do you think the vast majority of their opinions turns into? when the defence have one person saying he was at home with me in the night in question. what do you think the jury will say " its only opinion no evidence" no the majority of their same opinions turns into evidence. 



Your not going to get evidence from a lab because its impossible to test if the gh is active or not, i'm not even going to go into this with you because if you read the thread you will see why you cant etc. The questions you ask show your lack of experience and I'm not going to go over and over the same old questions what have been answered, because they all have been answered in here or other threads concerning the same subject.


The problem is you have underlining anger issues due to being ripped off from the Chinese, we all have been there I got ripped for thousands of $$$'s for yrs and yrs. What you got to do is stop fighting your own stupid opinion and start looking the mounting opinions/evidence of guys who have used for yrs and know what they are talking about and starting excepting this otherwise you will carry on using your hyges and not get the proper results etc form 100% gh. Now you can say or do what you want but i'm not trying to convince you anymore, your happy you carry on so fill your boots with those hyges/generics but I;m not going over old ground with someone who doesn't have any experience and just started using gh on the 8/8/13 and doesn't understand the basics of gh use and application.


I'm not here to push any pharmacy, I don't sell pharm grade gh, I am not linked to anyone who can supply gh and I have not given my opinion and experience to trick and fool the members, if you think I have that's fine but in all honesty I am trying to help you but all your doing is separating yourself with your foolish responses like "where the evidence" lol . Do you understand that were you are with your gh therapy, knowledge, experience and buying gh from china is weeks old, were you are is were I was years ago before you even picked up a weight. I am here to help and advice I am not here to trick people and direct them down the wrong avenue. Think what ever you like but I am done with you. All I ask is please take your blinkers off and listen to people who know what they are talking about but if your convince of your source and generics due to your lovely blood tests lo you carry on. Please don't take my post as an attack on you its a post to try and make you open your eyes and see things cleary because your very confused and lack of experience is shining though.


Best of luck to you either way you go.


Marcus

----------


## belva

Thank you Marcus, Much knowledge and experience going on here. From your advice I clearly see that you really want to help people in this forum. I'm happy to have the possibility to read those treads.

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## KRH

Marcus, thanks for finally replying with the only sensible reply I've seen so far. I was pushing for some decent info, but instead I got flamed. Although your reply isn't something we both agree on, I appreciate the time you took to type it out. However, I'll stand by the fact that my Chinese HGH is legit, maybe most of Chinese HGH is shit, but if my GH matches the results of Humatrope, the bloodworks of Humatrope and feels very much like Humatrope and is less than a quarter of the price, then I'll happily stick to using that. 

I think you've got my interpretations all wrong, I'd have been happy to have been proved wrong about Chinese HGH, I still haven't been proved wrong. Although your reply was lengthy there was unfortunately no evidence just all opinions again. 

I'm not pushing anything Chinese either, I'd agree, if you have the money then go for pharma grade, if not then the right Chinese HGH is the next best thing. 

Best of luck to you as well, hopefully there may be some 'solid' evidence posted in this thread soon.

I'm out of this argument from here on in (no matter if some prick tries to flame my replies when I've stopped posting, I'm refering to Mp859)

----------


## marcus300

> Marcus, thanks for finally replying with the only sensible reply I've seen so far. I was pushing for some decent info, but instead I got flamed. Although your reply isn't something we both agree on, I appreciate the time you took to type it out. However, I'll stand by the fact that my Chinese HGH is legit, maybe most of Chinese HGH is shit, but if my GH matches the results of Humatrope, the bloodworks of Humatrope and feels very much like Humatrope and is less than a quarter of the price, then I'll happily stick to using that. 
> 
> I think you've got my interpretations all wrong, I'd have been happy to have been proved wrong about Chinese HGH, I still haven't been proved wrong. Although your reply was lengthy there was unfortunately no evidence just all opinions again. 
> 
> I'm not pushing anything Chinese either, I'd agree, if you have the money then go for pharma grade, if not then the right Chinese HGH is the next best thing. 
> 
> Best of luck to you as well, hopefully there may be some 'solid' evidence posted in this thread soon.
> 
> I'm out of this argument from here on in (no matter if some prick tries to flame my replies when I've stopped posting, I'm refering to Mp859)


Your inexperience shines through with your reply, best of luck you will need it.

----------


## DeniZen

Thanks Marcus that was a world class post. I'm new to researching HGH and your response summarized up the entire thread for me.

----------


## thisAngelBites

> There's a flip side to this coin, why would *someone* go extremely out of there way (50 page thread full of false opinions) to prove Chinese are fake?


There isn't a "someone" - many people posted in that link, so hopefully that gets rid of the insinuated conspiracy theory argument about the post, unless now a whole coterie of pharm shills are posting here and there has been for a long time.




> I'm pretty sure some of them have been hired by pharmacy companies, I'm not even joking.


I take it then you are not aware that in some markets, several of the pharmaceutical companies try make it very difficult for people without documented proof of the conditions that GH is licenced to treat to buy growth hormone , even at pharmacies. It's odd they would do that AND pay loads of people to post on this forum.




> You are not getting the point. It's the opposite way around, this thread is about proving Chinese HGH is fake, so the evidence should be posted by the people making accusations, so far there's 50 pages and no solid evidence for such strong claims.


You're just evading the issue. This thread is about wherever the conversation goes. It's not about absolute evidence or else someone would have posted assays by brand and that would have been the end of it. Then you claimed in a later post: "I'll stand by the fact that my growth hormone is legit."




> I'm not the one making very strong claims,


Well, since you claim that it is a fact that your growth hormone is legit, where's your evidence? You made a "strong claim". 

The cognitive error of which you accuse others cuts against your argument all the same. They think that most Chinese HGH is rubbish due to their experience, exactly the same as you. So if their reasoning is nonsense, so is yours. Many of them having been taking growth hormone for many years, unlike you. 

The truth is that no one has any solid evidence. People are only relating experiences and trying to do some inductive reasoning, the same as you, the only difference being that there a lot more of them than you. This isn't absolute evidence of anything, but I think a lot of people find many accounts of personal experience more persuasive than just one, which is also extremely short-lived.

And please don't go on about how they cannot possibly know ALL Chinese GH is fake - that's a red herring. The claim of Marcus and the others here is not that literally, every single thing in the country of China that is alleged to be GH is fake; that would be ridiculous. I would not have thought this needs to be stated, but for the very literal people, here it is: the claim is that the Chinese sell a lot of fake growth hormone, including directly from factories, and even to people to whom they have sold genuine growth hormone is the past, and the experience of many long term members here, is that it is often fake, and that you simply cannot trust Chinese GH to be real. Therefore, the collective advice is not purchase Chinese GH because it is likely to be a waste of money.

So your argument that you have (allegedly) a box of real GH from China doesn't impact their claim in any way.

----------


## KRH

> There isn't a "someone" - many people posted in that link, so hopefully that gets rid of the insinuated conspiracy theory argument about the post, unless now a whole coterie of pharm shills are posting here and there has been for a long time.
> 
> 
> 
> I take it then you are not aware that in some markets, several of the pharmaceutical companies try make it very difficult for people without documented proof of the conditions that GH is licenced to treat to buy growth hormone , even at pharmacies. It's odd they would do that AND pay loads of people to post on this forum.
> 
> 
> 
> You're just evading the issue. This thread is about wherever the conversation goes. It's not about absolute evidence or else someone would have posted assays by brand and that would have been the end of it. Then you claimed in a later post: "I'll stand by the fact that my growth hormone is legit."
> ...


I was going to stop posting in this, but I knew someone would have to reply to my post. 

Firstly, there is a 'someone', if you haven't worked that out by now then you're either too stubborn to realize it or just aren't very mentally alert. 

Ok so how do you explain good old DPTUK's post. He posted this:




> I have no idea what the situation is like in the states. However, when my doc first wrote my script I went to the local pharmacy to obtain prices for what I needed. No need for me to say the that prices from the pharmacy were extortionate! I went back and discussed this with my doc and he put me in touch with the wholesaler that actually supplies the high street pharmacies in the UK and the prices were 50% less than what the high street pharmacies were charging for the same exact product.
> 
> You need to find the wholesalers that supply the high street pharmacies and build up a relationship there if possible.


According to such an upstanding member of this community, it's very possible to buy HGH, hell the doctor even makes a few pennies on the side for his referral. My point is there's a lot of contradicting going on throughout this thread, it's starting to become a new trend in this thread. You've managed to contradict yourself many of times in your useless, boring, lengthy post that I've been forced to reply to.

But let's get real for a second, are pharmaceutical brands like Genotropin, Omnitrope or Norditropin a company? What's their overall priority? In case you don't know the answer, it's to make money, they are a company. So the Chinese producing and selling HGH for such a cheap price will affect their profits, which means they will need to find a way to get rid of competition like this. So how would you do it? What's the most powerful tool you can think of? The internet! And guess where's the best place to find out information on the internet? Forums! And guess how many forums there are that discuss HGH, not many is the answer. This forum is definitely in the top 3 forums for volume of traffic, there's 24888 users online at the minute, that's a hell of a lot of people, all a targeted audience as well. This thread has had 150,967 views, this is a lot of views from unique people. Also this thread is instantly given credibility as 'Senior' members have posted evidence (opinions) for 50 pages. 

I think we finally agree on something. There's no evidence posted in this thread, it's all just opinions from members who have a hidden agenda.

So which company do you work for? Norditropin? Saizen? Pfizer? Neither would surpise me, sorry if I got in the way of your companies promotion.

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## marcus300

> I was going to stop posting in this, but I knew someone would have to reply to my post. 
> 
> Firstly, there is a 'someone', if you haven't worked that out by now then you're either too stubborn to realize it or just aren't very mentally alert. 
> 
> Ok so how do you explain good old DPTUK's post. He posted this:
> 
> 
> 
> According to such an upstanding member of this community, it's very possible to buy HGH, hell the doctor even makes a few pennies on the side for his referral. My point is there's a lot of contradicting going on throughout this thread, it's starting to become a new trend in this thread. You've managed to contradict yourself many of times in your useless, boring, lengthy post that I've been forced to reply to.
> ...


Your inexperience and tunnel vision is shining though yet again, its getting painful to read. You have been using gh for weeks you have zero experience and you have no idea about blood test. Do yourself a favour and go and do some research. 

Infact forget it, you carry on buying them, you keep thinking you got a good deal and you come back after you got some years worth of experience in using gh, understanding about hgh/igf blood test and when you hopefully get some common sense  :Smilie: 

members I really think we should leave this guy to argue and fight with himself. He's to blind to see the obvious

----------


## KRH

> Your inexperience and tunnel vision is shining though yet again, its getting painful to read. You have been using gh for weeks you have zero experience and you have no idea about blood test. Do yourself a favour and go and do some research. 
> 
> Infact forget it, you carry on buying them, you keep thinking you got a good deal and you come back after you got some years worth of experience in using gh, understanding about hgh/igf blood test and when you hopefully get some common sense 
> 
> members I really think we should leave this guy to argue and fight with himself. He's to blind to see the obvious


Haha you really crack me up. Thanks for the words of wisdom, I'll take that on board after I've finished laughing to myself about people with lesser common sense still being ripped off by pharmaceutical companies. 

I'll leave you and others to your sales, best of luck, take care, farewell, bye.

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## EasyDoesIt

> Your inexperience and tunnel vision is shining though yet again, its getting painful to read. You have been using gh for weeks you have zero experience and you have no idea about 
> 
> *members I really think we should leave this guy to argue and fight with himself. He's to blind to see the obvious*


In bold, "I AGREE" at some point after purchasing a product and sitting on who knows how much, it begins to be a question of whether they are trying to convince themselves that they have good product.

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## thisAngelBites

Marcus, do you know of anything that might raise both IGF levels and paranoiac episodes ? And leave one unable to think clearly? We might be on our way to figuring out what's in those vials.  :Smilie:

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## thisAngelBites

> In bold, "I AGREE" at some point after purchasing a product and sitting on who knows how much, it begins to be a question of whether they are trying to convince themselves that they have good product.


Of course, the only other option is to realise you've been scammed. And since GH is a long term thing, getting lucky on one box of real stuff at a cheap price is not enough. You have to be lucky like that over and over and over. So you have to tell yourself your source (who also always has a financial interest) is trustworthy.

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## DPTUK

Honestly why anyone would entertain this imbecile is beyond me! 

Not that it's anyone's business but I run a highly successful company in the UK that turns over several million pounds a year but this buffoon seems to have me confused as some drug dealer interested in selling human grade GH (very expensive and hard to obtain) via PM on a public forum to idiots like him who would gladly hand over their hard earned cash for fake Chinese HCG under the delusion that "something is better than nothing"!

Apart from libeling himself in his post he is also of the expert opinion that multi billion dollar companies like Pfizer employ people as part of their strategic advertising plan to post on forum boards such as steroid .com because they are in competition with the Chinese HCG suppliers that supply him his bunk!

If you ever read any of my posts you would have noted that I have stated several times that:

a) I never advocate buying any products from any underground source from anyone ever. PERIOD!
b) I would never use any product that is not human grade and is not supplied to me by a certified doctor.
c) I always abide by the law.

Some people are genuinely naive and don't know better for those people education is the answer and there is hope, other people are just plain stupid and deserve to be ripped off and for those people I have no time, sympathy or remorse and clearly you little boy are the latter!

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## KRH

> Honestly why anyone would entertain this imbecile is beyond me! 
> 
> Not that it's anyone's business but I run a highly successful company in the UK that turns over several million pounds a year but this buffoon seems to have me confused as some drug dealer interested in selling human grade GH (very expensive and hard to obtain) via PM on a public forum to idiots like him who would gladly hand over their hard earned cash for fake Chinese HCG under the delusion that "something is better than nothing"!
> 
> Apart from libeling himself in his post he is also of the expert opinion that multi billion dollar companies like Pfizer employ people as part of their strategic advertising plan to post on forum boards such as steroid .com because they are in competition with the Chinese HCG suppliers that supply him his bunk!
> 
> If you ever read any of my posts you would have noted that I have stated several times that:
> 
> a) I never advocate buying any products from any underground source from anyone ever. PERIOD!
> ...


Ok so how much are you selling your Genotropin for? And do you accept WU?  :Haha:

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## EasyDoesIt

[QUOTE=DPTUK;6737602]
Apart from libeling himself in his post he is also of the expert opinion that multi billion dollar companies like Pfizer employ people as part of their strategic advertising plan to post on forum boards such as steroid .com because they are in competition with the Chinese HCG suppliers that supply him his bunk!

If there was a chance of KRH having any credibility, which there is not, this comment about Pharm grade hgh mfgs. being in competition with chinese junk mfgs is not even a conversation and shows the weak thought pattern.




> Ok so how much are you selling your Genotropin for? And do you accept WU?


Grow up, man up, move on!
At this point the only thing you have said that makes sense is that you were "out of this argument" Great advice for yourself, take your own advice!

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## aenox

Just wanted to say hello to everybody and what an amazing thread. I have used hgh for the last 10 years. My experiences with US pharma grade such as Saizen and Genotropin far out weigh any chinese bunk i have experimented. I had high hopes when Genheal 1st came to the european market, but later to discover that there were so many fakes around. I am an American from Santa Cruz, California, and moved to Portugal 2 years where it is considerably harder to obtain pharma grade hgh, nevertheless i made a really good contact through a friend who owns a pharmacy, hence i was able to get Saizen, Genotropin and Norditropin at a fairly good price. Unfortunately this August, there was a major stamp down on portuguese pharmacies selling steroids and HGH so i have 2 questions to pose.

*1 - Does anybody know about Evogene Alley, which on their site says they are based in Belgium, but i have a suspicion they are based in China..

2 - Are the Genotropin GoQuick pens 36 ius Packed by Pfizer Manufacturing NV, Puurs, Belgium faked, or are they trustworthy.. ?*

Once again thank you for such an informative thread. I also understand the frustration of certain members who have invested dearly into buying large quantities of Chinese HGH. Admitting to oneself that one has erred is difficult.

----------


## thisAngelBites

They say on their website that they manufacture in central Europe and China. The website is being hosted out of Malaysia, and the contact info on the domain is via an anonymous email provider based in Japan and Panama. So I'd say they are working pretty hard to try and make sure no one knows who they are.

I've often heard the pens/cartridges are harder to fake, and then the standard argument is to ask why would anyone go to the trouble to make cartridges when they can just put some crap in a vial, label it and sell it?

Of course, that is easier, but faking the cartridges would bring a lot more money, so that is a large incentive right there. I've seen photos of pens on other sites where people said they were fake. I wouldn't trust a cartridge or pen just because it's a pen. I have some genotropin cartridges that I bought from a chemist in an eastern european country, and it seems good, but I use a lot less than most people here, so side effects etc. are not as apparent as in people who use higher doses and I haven't ever used any that I KNOW is legit, so I am far from an authority in this way.

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## EasyDoesIt

I really don't think Phizer is going to sell off a website. Matter of fact Sero or any of the brand names IMO are going to be counterfeit selling off a website. They do not solicit business that way. They have too much to risk.
I would not trust any of the pharm grades sold on a website. Do they make you provide a script?
I would not trust any of that unless it was a script. At least someones script.

----------


## aenox

> They say on their website that they manufacture in central Europe and China. The website is being hosted out of Malaysia, and the contact info on the domain is via an anonymous email provider based in Japan and Panama. So I'd say they are working pretty hard to try and make sure no one knows who they are.
> 
> I've often heard the pens/cartridges are harder to fake, and then the standard argument is to ask why would anyone go to the trouble to make cartridges when they can just put some crap in a vial, label it and sell it?
> 
> Of course, that is easier, but faking the cartridges would bring a lot more money, so that is a large incentive right there. I've seen photos of pens on other sites where people said they were fake. I wouldn't trust a cartridge or pen just because it's a pen. I have some genotropin cartridges that I bought from a chemist in an eastern european country, and it seems good, but I use a lot less than most people here, so side effects etc. are not as apparent as in people who use higher doses and I haven't ever used any that I KNOW is legit, so I am far from an authority in this way.


Yeah i had a vague feeling that Evogene are covering their tracks,,., I have heard from the portuguese bodybuilding community that Evogene is actually quite good, but once again, with the cheap prices one can attain this hgh, i highly doubt it is HGH and instead a concoction of peptides which elude the user into thinking that he is making all kinds of gains.

As for the genotropin cartridges, well it makes sense that these could easily be counterfeited since the profit is much higher than the normal chinese bunk that conniving scammers flog for a penny and a dime...








> I really don't think Phizer is going to sell off a website. Matter of fact Sero or any of the brand names IMO are going to be counterfeit selling off a website. They do not solicit business that way. They have too much to risk.
> I would not trust any of the pharm grades sold on a website. Do they make you provide a script?
> I would not trust any of that unless it was a script. At least someones script.



Yes, that is true, pharm grades on websites have a 50-50 chance of being fakes. And no, these sites never ask for a script.

----------


## DPTUK

> Just wanted to say hello to everybody and what an amazing thread. I have used hgh for the last 10 years. My experiences with US pharma grade such as Saizen and Genotropin far out weigh any chinese bunk i have experimented. I had high hopes when Genheal 1st came to the european market, but later to discover that there were so many fakes around. I am an American from Santa Cruz, California, and moved to Portugal 2 years where it is considerably harder to obtain pharma grade hgh, nevertheless i made a really good contact through a friend who owns a pharmacy, hence i was able to get Saizen, Genotropin and Norditropin at a fairly good price. Unfortunately this August, there was a major stamp down on portuguese pharmacies selling steroids and HGH so i have 2 questions to pose.
> 
> *1 - Does anybody know about Evogene Alley, which on their site says they are based in Belgium, but i have a suspicion they are based in China..
> 
> 2 - Are the Genotropin GoQuick pens 36 ius Packed by Pfizer Manufacturing NV, Puurs, Belgium faked, or are they trustworthy.. ?*
> 
> Once again thank you for such an informative thread. I also understand the frustration of certain members who have invested dearly into buying large quantities of Chinese HGH. Admitting to oneself that one has erred is difficult.



Yes they are 100% fake!

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## SpanishStallion

The totally wrong thing in all this thread is the discussion *IF THE CHINESE CAN MAKE SOMATROPIN OR NOT*. They can make it, at very low cost. The iranians also make it at very low cost, extremely less than the western pharma. It doesn't cost billions to develop E.coli expression capabilities and some might find surprising the relative low costs needed to equip a bio-pharma company.

The discussion should be correlated with the other quality related scandals engulfing China: tainted milk, tainted toys etc. *You think a proper argumentation against tainted toys would be the technical shortcomings of Chinese factories to make some plush toys?* Definitely not.

THE PROBLEM WITH CHINESE PHARMA IS THEIR WORK ETHICS. Nothing to do with technical capabilities.

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## Horsemnn

I can only reply from my my experience. I have been injecting HGH for about two months. I have purchased my supply from a company in China whom I trust. In support of that company, I have also purchased mesterolone from them. I have enough experience with mesterolone to be reasonably sure that it is real. (Reason I mention mesterolone is because it is not cheap to produce). It is the correct consistency (difficult to reproduce crystalline similarity) and yields the same result. My HGH dissolves slowly and leaves some flakes which I then swirl around and they dissolve after several minutes. The solution is slightly cloudy 
(I do not know if this tells anybody anything) so it is not really a solution, but rather a suspension. I tried injecting 10 iu of this product at one time for a couple of days and I did have a tingling in my hands and wrists. I do not know if this is significant but I have read elsewhere on this website that it is. In the past two months I have noticed an increasing muscle definition which I have not until now been able to achieve. Gradually, day by day, a very slight increase in muscle definition. I do not really know if I have the real deal or not. Another interesting point about my supplier. I have really bad blepharospasm which is treatable with botox. I buy botox from them and it works perfectly. It can not be something else, and it is an expensive product to produce. It comes in vials with purposely ruined labels. The purposely ruined labels seem that they used to be the label of a good brand. Now this botox is something that they can not fake me out with because I would know in two days. The price is only 1/10 of the price of botox in the good old USA, or for that matter, elsewhere in the world. My reasoning (which may very well be bad reasoning) is that if they are shooting straight with me on these two very expensive products (mesterolone and botox) then maybe they are shooting straight with me on HGH also. I do not know. I am asking advice and comments. Thank you.

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## marcus300

> I can only reply from my my experience. I have been injecting HGH for about two months. I have purchased my supply from a company in China whom I trust. In support of that company, I have also purchased mesterolone from them. I have enough experience with mesterolone to be reasonably sure that it is real. (Reason I mention mesterolone is because it is not cheap to produce). It is the correct consistency (difficult to reproduce crystalline similarity) and yields the same result. My HGH dissolves slowly and leaves some flakes which I then swirl around and they dissolve after several minutes. The solution is slightly cloudy 
> (I do not know if this tells anybody anything) so it is not really a solution, but rather a suspension. I tried injecting 10 iu of this product at one time for a couple of days and I did have a tingling in my hands and wrists. I do not know if this is significant but I have read elsewhere on this website that it is. In the past two months I have noticed an increasing muscle definition which I have not until now been able to achieve. Gradually, day by day, a very slight increase in muscle definition. I do not really know if I have the real deal or not. Another interesting point about my supplier. I have really bad blepharospasm which is treatable with botox. I buy botox from them and it works perfectly. It can not be something else, and it is an expensive product to produce. It comes in vials with purposely ruined labels. The purposely ruined labels seem that they used to be the label of a good brand. Now this botox is something that they can not fake me out with because I would know in two days. The price is only 1/10 of the price of botox in the good old USA, or for that matter, elsewhere in the world. My reasoning (which may very well be bad reasoning) is that if they are shooting straight with me on these two very expensive products (mesterolone and botox) then maybe they are shooting straight with me on HGH also. I do not know. I am asking advice and comments. Thank you.




You wouldn't see any results in 8 wks with gh so doubt you got real stuff and I wouldn't inject their botox oh my Lord that could be anything and probably is

----------


## Cuz

Marcus wow hell of a job you done laying everything out on gh. If anyone can get a thread back on track its you lol.

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## DPTUK

> Marcus wow hell of a job you done laying everything out on gh. If anyone can get a thread back on track its you lol.


Yeah Marcus is the man!

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## JoGib14

We should wake up and smell the coffee...or the chinxy crap in this case!
http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/1...9BE02E20131215

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## Rick Kane

Breaking News……The Chinese are counterfeiting prescription drugs.

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## thisAngelBites

I think the breaking news is that are trying to do something about it.  :Smilie:

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## SpanishStallion

> I think the breaking news is that are trying to do something about it.


Its a political move to blow of some steam from the escalating social tensions inside China. That country was built on copying and imitating same as the US was built on laundered money and it will not change even in 100 years. Just the level of the game will get higher and the small fishes will get blocked in the net.

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## EasyDoesIt

The US was built on Manufacturing. now that it has mostly diminished and turned into a service industry country, it's economy is in the toilet.
But let's not get off topic of this thread.

----------


## Gunsablazin

Dang Chinese lol jk

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## xthedukex

good post !!!

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## rikifiki

Ive been following this thread from the beginning since i planned buying some ansomone gh. ive used theire gh in past and they were as good as the Jins before ORD. I ordered through Nancy as all of you guys did and i hope shell provide me with decent product. I am located in the Eu so delivery should be ok...i am a little scared though and all i can say is i take this positively. ive used a lot of gh from several brands and i can tell within the first shot if its good or not. because unlike most people say gh doesnt take months to see results. you "feel" the gh right away after the first shot kicking in and after 2-3 weeks fatloss takes place and body composition improoves every week. ive always used 5ius a day. for my first injection i will do 10ius. ill keep you guys updated!

btw which email from ankebio have you people used? is it allowed to post the email addy here to see if you had the same as mine?

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## marcus300

> Ive been following this thread from the beginning since i planned buying some ansomone gh. ive used theire gh in past and they were as good as the Jins before ORD. I ordered through Nancy as all of you guys did and i hope shell provide me with decent product. I am located in the Eu so delivery should be ok...i am a little scared though and all i can say is i take this positively. ive used a lot of gh from several brands and i can tell within the first shot if its good or not. because unlike most people say gh doesnt take months to see results. you "feel" the gh right away after the first shot kicking in and after 2-3 weeks fatloss takes place and body composition improoves every week. ive always used 5ius a day. for my first injection i will do 10ius. ill keep you guys updated!
> 
> btw which email from ankebio have you people used? is it allowed to post the email addy here to see if you had the same as mine?


You cant tell with the first shot that your using pharm grade gh,
fat loss doesn't come on within 2 weeks,
going on 10ius per day straight away would cause serious sides and you wouldn't be able to cope with it,
I really would question the gh you have been using because if you have these results/experience 

We are not a source board we don't post emails to sources,

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## rikifiki

Sorry to say but yes i do feel the gh within the first shot, believe it or not. I feel energized right away even if i only slept for 3hrs. And fatloss starts at 2-3 weeks to me! ALL pharm gh ive ever used. And i didnt say i would use 10ius straight a day i said i will take the first shot of 10ius to see if i feel what i used to feel what i always felt within the first shot. this is not a debate about who gets what sides and im not even going to describe the results i will get if the ansomone i will receive is good or not. I will simply say theyre GTG or theyre crap. Simple as that. This is meant for information only and nothing else after yous can do whatever you want.

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## EasyDoesIt

> Sorry to say but yes i do feel the gh within the first shot, believe it or not. I feel energized right away even if i only slept for 3hrs. And fatloss starts at 2-3 weeks to me! ALL pharm gh ive ever used. And i didnt say i would use 10ius straight a day i said i will take the first shot of 10ius to see if i feel what i used to feel what i always felt within the first shot. this is not a debate about who gets what sides and im not even going to describe the results i will get if the ansomone i will receive is good or not. I will simply say theyre GTG or theyre crap. Simple as that. This is meant for information only and nothing else after yous can do whatever you want.


Whatever you have taken that energized you 3 hours after injection, it wasn't HGH. Placebo effect, but hgh doesn't work that way. So later if you come on here talking about how GTG this stuff is, i don't want anyone new to hgh getting the wrong impression. The fact that your saying you get this wellness feeling in 3 hours makes all the rest questionable. Taking a first shot at 10iu's?

----------


## rikifiki

again, please before replying to my post read properly what i wrote instead of throwing bombs first. i said "I feel energized right away even if i only slept for 3hrs"

yes 10iu the first shot! whats wrong about it? maybe you should give it a try you would understand what im talking about...

and if the hgh is good to go is questionable yet as i didnt try it yet.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

I know exactly what you said. No i won't follow your protocol, if the product recieved via mail order is questionable i wouldn't want to blast myself with a high dosage right off the bat. You stated you were a little scared so pumping a high dosage right off the bat says "reckless" even though you are a little scared. My posting is to keep caution for members of the site who would read this and think yeah maybe since i just ordered this stuff or anything else to think twice before shooting 10ius right out of the starting gate.

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## OnionOfCanada

Hello everyone - I am new around here. Marcus, EasyDoesIt - wow! thanks for amazingly informative posts. It took me long to read this thread (_I started from page 30.._) but boy this was enlightening.

The way I see it - there is no way to know if the HGH you have is genuine except with a lab test. So, I think we should all *devote our energies into finding a lab* that will *test* this for us. Maybe a lab that accepts stuff via mail. Private lab?

I am a newbie - been working out for 2 years regularly with a trainer. Gained in strength but not in size. I figured I was a hard gainer and was not eating enough and stuff like that. 

I recently traveled to another country where I was able to get blood-work done for very cheap. Lo and behold, I found out that my HGH levels and Free Test levels are kinda low. See attachments below:

Test:

and
HGH:


I am going to see a doctor - maybe doctor will prescribe HGH to me. If doctor does prescribe it, I think it'd be a very low dosage. Probably 1 IU/day. *Would I see any result with 1 IU of genuine pharma stuff?*

But 99% doctor won't prescribe any HGH and simply ask me to improve my diet and sleep. In that case, I'd be interested in purchasing HGH. Don't know where to find it yet but there are lot of big guys at the gym I go to, someone ought to know. I'll ask around. Or worst case, I'll order it online from one of the deep markets. 

But before taking it, I'd like to get it tested at some lab. I have no connection, no network, no circle with people who know people. So, I have no clue if there is a lab in CANADA or the US that'll test this for me. Does anyone else know?

Maybe we should all pool in money and buy *Amino Acid Analyzer* machine. And then just provide this testing as a service!  :Smilie:

----------


## rikifiki

> I know exactly what you said. No i won't follow your protocol, if the product recieved via mail order is questionable i wouldn't want to blast myself with a high dosage right off the bat. You stated you were a little scared so pumping a high dosage right off the bat says "reckless" even though you are a little scared. My posting is to keep caution for members of the site who would read this and think yeah maybe since i just ordered this stuff or anything else to think twice before shooting 10ius right out of the starting gate.


"My protocol"?? LOL its funny how people think when youre new to a board that youre new to the game..but hey why get into an argument with you? Youre clearly too knowledgable for me. makes me think that all the people who blast gh at 10-15ius EOD are dumb ****s too...and NO not all of them split the doses during the day.
i just came here to share some info about the stuff i will get soon and maybe you must been thinking that i am a rep for ankebio and that i have an agenda with them. Pathic. And speaking about gh and its effects, check ronnies thread when he received his free hgh from ankebio. He saw results IMMEDIATLY and he can confirm that. So if you say you dont feel the gh atleast 3 weeks after taking it ED you obviuously never did real pharm grade hgh.

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## EasyDoesIt

> "My protocol"?? LOL its funny how people think when youre new to a board that youre new to the game..but hey why get into an argument with you? Youre clearly too knowledgable for me. makes me think that all the people who blast gh at 10-15ius EOD are dumb ****s too...and NO not all of them split the doses during the day.
> i just came here to share some info about the stuff i will get soon and maybe you must been thinking that i am a rep for ankebio and that i have an agenda with them. Pathic. And speaking about gh and its effects, check ronnies thread when he received his free hgh from ankebio. He saw results IMMEDIATLY and he can confirm that. So if you say you dont feel the gh atleast 3 weeks after taking it ED you obviuously never did real pharm grade hgh.


You need to READ my post better, i never said anything about results in 3 weeks, it was your energized feeling in 3 Hours that I do not buy! I have used real HGH and i didn't buy it ONLINE from a company that has been pumping out counterfeits.

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## rikifiki

> You need to READ my post better, i never said anything about results in 3 weeks, it was your energized feeling in 3 Hours that I do not buy! I have used real HGH and i didn't buy it ONLINE from a company that has been pumping out counterfeits.


Now seriously i didnt came here to start a pissing contest. And Sir, YOU NEED TO READ better because i NEVER said i feel energized after 3 hrs of administration. And actually i dont care what you dont buy or buy into. You want to discredit me because i bought some ansomone online?? My friend, let me tell you 90% of all gh users buys them online. Pharm or generics. Yeah the ifbb pros bodybuilders walk right into a pharmacie and buy genos or seros right there...please...i dont know what you want from me, you have a trusted member that can tell you what he felt on the legit ansomone gh. I am pretty sure that he felt exactly the same way i do within the first shot on ANY LEGIT PHARM HGH. Ask ronnie if you dont believe what i say and please do me a favor stop riding me it is quite annoying replying to you all the time to such useless posts.

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## EasyDoesIt

To anyone new to this thread read through thoroughly before shopping online for AnkeBio. Apparently they sold a great product, then things changed. I do not know the latest updates but if a company sells junk i do not trust them. But i am not a gambler. http://forums.steroid .com/igf-1-lr3-hgh-insulin -questions/436935-chinese-hgh-concerns-27.html

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## OnionOfCanada

I noticed in Marcus's signature about doing a source-check. Stupid question - what's a source check? 
Is it : people tell you which site they want to order stuff from and you let them know if you know it to be legit or not or if you don't know anything
Or
Is it that people send you some sample and you get it tested in a lab? (if so, this is what I was talking about in my earlier post!!!)

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## OnionOfCanada

I noticed in Marcus's signature about doing a source-check. Stupid question - what's a source check? 
Is it : people tell you which site they want to order stuff from and you let them know if you know it to be legit or not or if you don't know anything
Or
Is it that people send you some sample and you get it tested in a lab? (if so, this is what I was talking about in my earlier post!!!)

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## rikifiki

i purchased ansomone hgh right after ORD when gensci wouldnt shipp any of its product without prescription anymore and was satisfied with ansomone. then i see people who get scammed by ankebio and say they sold them garbage.
people in the UK swear by ansomone and praise it even over rips when rips used to be THE name for quality hgh. i never bought rips because theyre not a licensed manufacturer for hgh so i always sticked to genotropin. but as we all know running western pharm hgh is very expensive so i decided to give ansomone a new try even though they had bad reviews a few years ago. if i get scammed ok then i was a fool and i lost a lot of cash, if not i will be one happy ansomone hgh user and thats about it. i will keep this updated IF anyone is interested

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## EasyDoesIt

> I noticed in Marcus's signature about doing a source-check. Stupid question - what's a source check? 
> Is it : people tell you which site they want to order stuff from and you let them know if you know it to be legit or not or if you don't know anything
> Or
> Is it that people send you some sample and you get it tested in a lab? (if so, this is what I was talking about in my earlier post!!!)


The site is meant for educational purposes. The purchase of many products are illegal and this site is open to anyone to join. Following me here? So no one can tell you where to purchase steroids or wethere a site is a good place etc. Your on your own there. All the information you see posted such as this thread is to help people understand that there have been companies selling bad products and sometimes very dangerous products. There have been members having severe health issues due to steroids that were bacteria infested and i believe this thread itself came about due to a monitor or high level member being sick from chinese hgh. Many people have been burnt financially. If you buy enough of this stuff it is most likely going to happen. There are side effects and dangers to use of steroids especially when not administered properlly. There is a section on pictures of legit steroids and fake steroids. No web addresses or comany names posted. It takes time to navigate this site. I for one became involved in this thread due to purchasing a well known brand of hgh that came out of china with all authentication codes etc. I was having the wrong effects from the hgh and knew something was wrong even though they were authenticated through manufacturer. I personally would not buy HGH that came from china, i do not trust them!!!!! If a large US manufacturer pulled the kind of nonsense the companies in China did, they would either be severely penalized or shut down. The chinese do not care about companies selling junk to the US. Nor do you have recourse from buying fake products from China and they know that. They also know that there is always a fresh new batch of suckers that will buy junk due to desperation of wanting HGH and greed based on this great deal they had. HGH is not like making steroids, the factories require very expensive equipment and the raw materials are not cheap. There are guys still running around peddling generic and brand name chinese hgh in the US and the customers think they are getting a deal. NOT TRUE. This subject has been worked over a lot here. Take a long read if you plan on investigating hgh for yourself. It is very difficult to obtain and very costly. It is an amazing product, but personally hgh is not like cycling steroids, low doses long term just keep working better and better. I won't go over all that because i have typed it before and my fingers are already worn out from poking this LOL
I am close to 60 and i consider myself to keep up with people in their 20's, but that's because i have worked out my entire life in either stregth training and martial arts. It is consistency, no breaks for months or years.

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## OnionOfCanada

> The site is meant for educational purposes. The purchase of many products are illegal and this site is open to anyone to join. Following me here? So no one can tell you where to purchase steroids or wethere a site is a good place etc. Your on your own there. All the information you see posted such as this thread is to help people understand that there have been companies selling bad products and sometimes very dangerous products. There have been members having severe health issues due to steroids that were bacteria infested and i believe this thread itself came about due to a monitor or high level member being sick from chinese hgh.


Thanks! That's cool. So, source check means: people can get mods opinion on whether or not a particular product has high likelihood of being fake. Cool.

I don't think I can inject something that has non-trivial chance of being fake. It could be anything and could give me all kinds of health troubles in future. So, injecting Chinese stuff that has significant chances of being fake is probably not for me, specially not without some sort of testing/confirmation of authenticity.


*Does anyone know if there is a private lab where you can get stuff tested?* All this guessing, source check would be moot if we just find a private lab that can just do the test for us.

I read that male human body (I am 30), produces around 1.2 IU per day anyway. So, if I were to buy pharma grade stuff and only do *1 IU / day*, it's still almost *doubling* my natural HGH levels. I rather do that than inject 4 IU of questionable / unverified substance.

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## OnionOfCanada

Doctor freaked out at the mention of HGH. She said there was no need to even do this test. 

For my age (30), levels are ok. I look physically fit and she sees no reason to even test for HGH. 

So now, what do I do?

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## marcus300

> Doctor freaked out at the mention of HGH. She said there was no need to even do this test. 
> 
> For my age (30), levels are ok. I look physically fit and she sees no reason to even test for HGH. 
> 
> So now, what do I do?


what do you want hgh for anyway?

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## OnionOfCanada

> what do you want hgh for anyway?


Hyoplasia. 
I want to gain some muscle and from people who take steroids , I am told that you lose all your gains when sometime after you stop taking steriods . 

With HGH - I am hoping that gains will be permanent (as long as I continue to workout). I am okay with slower (but long-term) gains. 

Afraid of taking test hormone based steroids because 1. Gains are not permanent and 2. Side effects.

My natural HGH levels are below 0.005 (I posted a picture of my hgh blood report in earlier post). I guess that makes me a very very hard gainer!! I'd like to supplement it with HGH (maybe 2iu/day for 4-6 months and then taper down to 1 IU EOD). 

Hopefully that'd give me increased sense of well being, increased immunity, better skin, and 'permanent' muscle (or increased # of muscle cells that can grow/become bigger with heavy workouts)

----------


## EasyDoesIt

The guys who told you that you will not keep gains do not know what they are talking about or what they are doing when taking steroids . You need to read through this forum and read about planning a first cycle. I am in a hurry so you have to find the link for it. It's all about doing a proper PCT (POST CYCLE THERAPY ) Of course no doc is going to prescribe hgh to a 30 year old. I am almost 60 and it would be tough to get script. Proper training and diet, then continuing training after cycle. Guys that tell you that you will not maintain gains are the ones who only workout when they are cycling. No you are not going to keep all of it, but you will add tissue that you can maintain. Unless you are a competitive bodybuilder there is no reason for you to take hgh. Remember whenver you administer hormones, your body quits producing that hormone. You really need to read up on the diet and nutrition section and read marcus training regimen. Don't listen to most of the younger knuckleheads in the gym. Not that all are knuckleheads and there are some well informed younger guys here on this site, but that seems to be the exception.

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## OnionOfCanada

Thanks, EasyDoesIt. I don't think I want to do steroids + PCT. I'd rather do HGH that has little to no side effects (when taken in small doses 1 to 3 iu) and results in generally better health as such.

I also don't want to buy HGH of questionable authenticity from black markets or from some guy who knows a guy. I am wondering if there are any other countries where doctors prescribe it if you ask for it?

If you are visiting another country and doctor there prescribes you HGH, are you able to bring carry it back with you or will customs seize it? I mean, it's doctor prescribed prescription, customs shouldn't have any issues. Right?

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## EasyDoesIt

I really don't know and haven't had time to check even where you're located. But it's really difficult getting prescriptions for HGH HGH was originally created for dwarfism and now some antiaging companies prescribe it but with the laws in the US it's becoming tougher and tougher most of it is prescribed for AIDS patients and even with the new insurance laws it's becoming tougher for them to get scrips they're cutting their scripts down and or out. The concern I have is 30 years old and your going to start on something based on therapy and the question is are you going to continue to be able to get it. That's even if you're able to obtain it originally.

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## EasyDoesIt

> I really don't know and haven't had time to check even where you're located. But it's really difficult getting prescriptions for HGH HGH was originally created for dwarfism and now some antiaging companies prescribe it but with the laws in the US it's becoming tougher and tougher most of it is prescribed for AIDS patients and even with the new insurance laws it's becoming tougher for them to get scrips they're cutting their scripts down and or out. The concern I have is 30 years old and your going to start on something based on therapy and the question is are you going to continue to be able to get it. That's even if you're able to obtain it originally.


@onion FYI i did not look at bloodwork, but if your test is low you should consider the sponsor here low t. Taking test at prescription therapeutic dosage is not cycling steroids . I think you will find it very difficult to obtain hgh.

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## OnionOfCanada

> I really don't know and haven't had time to check even where you're located. But it's really difficult getting prescriptions for HGH HGH was originally created for dwarfism and now some antiaging companies prescribe it but with the laws in the US it's becoming tougher and tougher most of it is prescribed for AIDS patients and even with the new insurance laws it's becoming tougher for them to get scrips they're cutting their scripts down and or out. The concern I have is 30 years old and your going to start on something based on therapy and the question is are you going to continue to be able to get it. That's even if you're able to obtain it originally.


I am in Canada. 
Ideally, I'd like to take small dose (say 1 or 2 iu) for as long as I don't have any bad side effects. But you are right - can I even obtain authentic HGH at a reasonable cost? If yes, can I continue to obtain it or if it's going to be a one-time thing? If it's only a one-time thing then perhaps it's better to not start it. 

But I guess I am kind of fascinated by all these claimed benefits of HGH that I want to try and see if it is indeed what it claims to be.

I've been reading on HGH ( futurescience . com / *hgh.html* ) and it sounds like amino acids like * l-arginine l-glutamine* can increase HGH production naturally. Maybe I'll try that and see. *Would you recommend that?* If yes, what (over-the-counter) product would you recommend that has both these amino acids in quantity sufficient to stimulate my pituitary gland into releasing HGH?

A long time ago, a friend brought me some *Anavar* tablets in Thailand. I had one and then I chickened out and didn't have any. Threw them away. I am amazed that Steroids are relatively inexpensive (compared to HGH) and it's relatively easier to obtain quality (authentic) steroids but I am just afraid of their side effects.

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## EasyDoesIt

If i were you i would look into peptides. There are peptides that will help stimulate natural hgh. But i know nothing about them. There are members here that have a lot of knowledge with peptides, but i don't know who to steer you to. Go to the peptides section and start reading. HGH is not going to stimulate more natural hgh. Personally at your age i would not start hgh for therapy purposes. There can be negatives also even at low dosages if you start now. Your looking at a lifetime of it. Like i said here you have a lot of competitive bodybuilders who use it short term high dose for a purpose. Everyone has their own reason. Also, there are a lot of fake steroids out there and anavar is one of the most counterfeited there is.

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## Ashop

Stick with ONLY pharma grade HGH. These generics are too up and down right now.
There were only a couple I even would have tried and now they are not even worthy.

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## OnionOfCanada

> If i were you i would look into peptides. There are peptides that will help stimulate natural hgh. But i know nothing about them. There are members here that have a lot of knowledge with peptides, but i don't know who to steer you to. Go to the peptides section and start reading. HGH is not going to stimulate more natural hgh. Personally at your age i would not start hgh for therapy purposes. There can be negatives also even at low dosages if you start now. Your looking at a lifetime of it. Like i said here you have a lot of competitive bodybuilders who use it short term high dose for a purpose. Everyone has their own reason. Also, there are a lot of fake steroids out there and *anavar* is one of the most counterfeited there is.


Thanks. I'll read more about peptides.
By the way, if Anavar is indeed most faked steroid , then, how do you test if the Anavar or any other steroid you've is genuine? Is there any test you can do at home or does it require *mass-spectro* (like HGH)?




> Stick with ONLY pharma grade HGH. These generics are too up and down right now.
> There were only a couple I even would have tried and now they are not even worthy.


Yep - I have no intention of buying generic HGH (unless I had access to a lab that could test it for me). I was thinking of maybe going to another country (don't know which - still researching) where doctors prescribe it with relative ease. *I am still researching* 
- 1. which country and 
- 2. if I did get prescription for it in another country, am I even allowed to bring it back to Canada?

That said, based on *EasyDoesIt's* advise, I am now also looking into peptides. Maybe I don't need HGH - it's anyway too expensive and too hard to get prescribed at age 30ish. If there is something else out there (like peptides) then maybe that's the way to go.

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## marcus300

> Hyoplasia. 
> I want to gain some muscle and from people who take steroids , I am told that you lose all your gains when sometime after you stop taking steriods . 
> 
> With HGH - I am hoping that gains will be permanent (as long as I continue to workout). I am okay with slower (but long-term) gains. 
> 
> Afraid of taking test hormone based steroids because 1. Gains are not permanent and 2. Side effects.
> 
> My natural HGH levels are below 0.005 (I posted a picture of my hgh blood report in earlier post). I guess that makes me a very very hard gainer!! I'd like to supplement it with HGH (maybe 2iu/day for 4-6 months and then taper down to 1 IU EOD). 
> 
> Hopefully that'd give me increased sense of well being, increased immunity, better skin, and 'permanent' muscle (or increased # of muscle cells that can grow/become bigger with heavy workouts)


You might aswell forget hgh because you wont get any kind of muscle tissue growth from 2ius for 4-6 months. Its takes at least 8-10ius daily for 6-12 months and for best results it needs to be run in conjunction with aas. Also the sides can be hard at 8-10ius daily so I really don't think going down the hgh route is for you.

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## EasyDoesIt

> Thanks. I'll read more about peptides.
> By the way, if Anavar is indeed most faked steroid, then how/where do you get genuine steroid?


Remember you can not ask for sources, THINK CAREFULLY ABOUT YOUR QUESTIONS AND REMEMBER YOU ARE ON THE INTERNET. Anyone can access this forum. This forum stays up and running because there is no selling or soliciting. If you were on a forum that openly answered that question you would be open bait for scammers. That question on here alone can bring scammers to you.

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## OnionOfCanada

> Remember you can not ask for sources, THINK CAREFULLY ABOUT YOUR QUESTIONS AND REMEMBER YOU ARE ON THE INTERNET. Anyone can access this forum. This forum stays up and running because there is no selling or soliciting. If you were on a forum that openly answered that question you would be open bait for scammers. That question on here alone can bring scammers to you.


Cool, edited my post and the question.




> You might aswell forget hgh because you wont get any kind of muscle tissue growth from 2ius for 4-6 months. Its takes at least 8-10ius daily for 6-12 months and for best results it needs to be run in conjunction with aas. Also the sides can be hard at 8-10ius daily so I really don't think going down the hgh route is for you.


Okay. I am looking into peptides and their sideeffects now. Genuine HGH is impossible to obtain so it's pretty much a moot point.

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## OnionOfCanada

Met another doctor and doctor refused to order HGH test, let alone prescribe it. Now, it's clear to me that I am not going to be able to obtain HGH from my doctor and HGH on blackmarket is more likely to be fake. So, time to look for alternatives.

I've been reading about peptides and also how HGH works. HGH increases your IGF-1 levels. Is it easier to find genuine IGF-1 then? Instead of taking HGH, if IGF-1 is easier to find and obtain, I can try that maybe.

Any comments? suggestions? agree / disagree?

----------


## OnionOfCanada

Haha. Turns out IGF-1 is even more expensive and even harder to obtain!
FML

----------


## breakthelines

Anyone tried the blue tops from naps?

----------


## marcus300

> Anyone tried the blue tops from naps?


They are shit, please read the whole thread.

----------


## < <Samson> >

Before this gets pulled - So how do they check out? 

I call bunk BS, but I really don't know

----------


## marcus300

> Before this gets pulled - So how do they check out? 
> 
> I call bunk BS, but I really don't know


Ive deleted the post, he is just a rep for a company what sells fakes. He will be banned

----------


## stang

Awesome

----------


## French_Nicolas

> I doubt it, I have found a lab which I can send my gh to for testing, further suggestions are welcome though.


Well I know that SRCS is down , but I was surfing in the web and I've seen :

http://www.sgs.com/en/pages/Life-Sci...FVNk7AodUnUAhw

Just wondering if they would do our 191aa protein test ?

----------


## Chicagotarsier

I do not want in the convo of who sells crap or legit. I do know now where ALL the powders...AAS and HGH are made in China and also know if you go through the proper groups to buy they will receive you, take you to THEIR lab, and do the tests on analysers for you.

I say that to say this.

Drugs are Drugs. Cutting down drugs is the most common profit path for Drug sellers. Flat out faking them is a version of that path. If you truly want to KNOW and be in the KNOW go to Shenzhen China and find out. If you buy from UGLs you will always ...ALWAYS be wondering what you are getting. I do not trust middlemen so had to do the homework and move to a different country because it was THAT important to me. 

I had considered HGH but I trusted what Marcus has been preaching since day 1 I joined. Non Pharmacy HGH at this time is not trustable. If the sides for an adequate dose are that tough I don't want it anyway haha...AAS are tough enough....

----------


## kxbgr

Very good thread..

----------


## Wes201

> As we are all aware the global market for human growth hormone is worth millions if not billions of dollars and because of this is attracts the attention of the more unscrupulous amongst our community.
> 
> In the past people have been sold HCG believing it to be HGH, lets face it, to the beginner or novice it looks the same or very similar, you reconstitute it and can inject it just like you do with HGH. One big difference is the price, HCG is much cheaper to produce than HGH and therefore to the guy who wants to make a quick buck it becomes very appealing. Luckily for us its easy to test for HCG using a pregnancy test, put some of the water on the test and if it shows a positive result then voila! You have HCG.
> 
> So what are the fakers trying to pass off as HGH these days? Well they are certainly selling us freeze dried AIs, these compounds will strip the body of it estrogen and that will make you loose some water and become leaner. This can often fool the user into thinking they have lost BF and increased lean muscle, and as most people run AAS with their HGH they wont have a clue that what they are taking is a million miles from what they thought they have spent their hard earned cash on because their estrogen levels would of been raised by the AAS anyway. The problems arise here when you come off the AI and get a massive estrogen rebound, and then you will know for sure you have been deceived. 
> 
> Ok so how can we tell that we have real HGH without sending to the lab to be tested and also not testing it on yourself?
> 
> The answer to this question is quite simple and anyone can do it. When you reconstitute your HGH (or what you think is HGH) you need to watch how it dissolves when it comes into contact with the water. Does it disappear instantly? If so then I doubt very much that you have HGH, what you want to be seeing are a few white flakes at the bottom of the vial which remain, you then need to gently swirl the bottle around until the disappear, this could take 30 seconds or more and is a very good indicator that what you have is real HGH, or what we commonly believe to be HGH...Update. It seems that the Chinese are able to create a substance that dissolves like HGH so beware that the remaining flakes are not always a sigh that your HGH is g2g.
> ...


Bro. Sorry, but what is CTS?

----------


## marcus300

> Bro. Sorry, but what is CTS?


Carpal tunnel syndrome (CTS)

----------


## tdoe11

I have been on Pharma GH for about two months now. I am just starting to notice fat loss, I am cutting though, with a caloric deficient diet and daily cardio. Mÿ hands are burning/tingling and falling asleep all day and night long. It almost makes it hard to do my job at times. I worked up to 4ius a day, and have been on that dose for a couple weeks. Scared to go higher at this point to be honest...

My reason for posting this is this, Marcus spoke to me about the Chinese gh legitimacy problem. I listened to what he said, quit the China gh, and went with Pharma. I would suggest you all really do some serious thinking. Gh is very,very expensive to produce. It has a high street value, not just over a buck an IU. And no you cannot start taking 6+ius a day to start and deal with the sides if it was real. I can't even imagine starting serostim at 10ius a day. Does it not make you nervous to take something in a bottle with a colored top that has no label on it? Especially from China? Think about it ladies and gents. The things we do today ARE going to affect us tomorrow.........

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> I have been on Pharma GH for about two months now. I am just starting to notice fat loss, I am cutting though, with a caloric deficient diet and daily cardio. Mÿ hands are burning/tingling and falling asleep all day and night long. It almost makes it hard to do my job at times. I worked up to 4ius a day, and have been on that dose for a couple weeks. Scared to go higher at this point to be honest...
> 
> My reason for posting this is this, Marcus spoke to me about the Chinese gh legitimacy problem. I listened to what he said, quit the China gh, and went with Pharma. I would suggest you all really do some serious thinking. Gh is very,very expensive to produce. It has a high street value, not just over a buck an IU. And no you cannot start taking 6+ius a day to start and deal with the sides if it was real. I can't even imagine starting serostim at 10ius a day. Does it not make you nervous to take something in a bottle with a colored top that has no label on it? Especially from China? Think about it ladies and gents. The things we do today ARE going to affect us tomorrow.........


Yes to many people think if they are not having an issue at the time or even a year later that they are ok. Lately I have been watching the former NFL players with brain damage wishing they never played football. When Mike Ditka says that the damage caused is not worth playing the game, it's really bad. Took a lot of years for the effects to show up. Most of the guys i know on hormone therapy are in their 30's and early 40's. None of them ever did a PCT or even know how to cycle. They just took what was available. Now add some powder with who knows what is in it from China!? I get so tired of these idiots that tell me they trust their friend. Your friend that told you that HCG is not necessary. I know a guy who is going to an anti aging Doc who is somehow prescribing Winstrol at 1cc per week along with Deca and test, hcg has never been mentioned. I talked to him about winstrol and deca together and if things were working ok. He said not really and winny is every other day. If your on therapy you definitely should not be taking winny anyway let alone with deca and dosed wrong. he quit winny for awhile, but the next conversation he forgot everything and was taking both again. I know many anti aging doc's like that one are Greedy so it's just total lack of knowledge, otherwise it would be more money in his pocket because he prescribes and sells out of his office. Realisticlly they should be at the top of the food chain of education, but NOT! Most of the users here have not even bothered to do any research on anything they inject. I am not speaking of this forum, I don't know anyone personally here, just guys from the gym. I know one guy that researches everything and he has a PHD. When people ask me about oils or anything, if they don't have deaf ears, I give them my advice, but I always tell them to do research and educate themselves. There is to much involved that a simple conversation will not cover. Just the sound of people still talking about "BLUE TOPS" irritates me.

----------


## tdoe11

> Yes to many people think if they are not having an issue at the time or even a year later that they are ok. Lately I have been watching the former NFL players with brain damage wishing they never played football. When Mike Ditka says that the damage caused is not worth playing the game, it's really bad. Took a lot of years for the effects to show up. Most of the guys i know on hormone therapy are in their 30's and early 40's. None of them ever did a PCT or even know how to cycle. They just took what was available. Now add some powder with who knows what is in it from China!? I get so tired of these idiots that tell me they trust their friend. Your friend that told you that HCG is not necessary. I know a guy who is going to an anti aging Doc who is somehow prescribing Winstrol at 1cc per week along with Deca and test, hcg has never been mentioned. I talked to him about winstrol and deca together and if things were working ok. He said not really and winny is every other day. If your on therapy you definitely should not be taking winny anyway let alone with deca and dosed wrong. he quit winny for awhile, but the next conversation he forgot everything and was taking both again. I know many anti aging doc's like that one are Greedy so it's just total lack of knowledge, otherwise it would be more money in his pocket because he prescribes and sells out of his office. Realisticlly they should be at the top of the food chain of education, but NOT! Most of the users here have not even bothered to do any research on anything they inject. I am not speaking of this forum, I don't know anyone personally here, just guys from the gym. I know one guy that researches everything and he has a PHD. When people ask me about oils or anything, if they don't have deaf ears, I give them my advice, but I always tell them to do research and educate themselves. There is to much involved that a simple conversation will not cover. Just the sound of people still talking about "BLUE TOPS" irritates me.


Yup, it's scary man. Look at basic life. You can buy a pair of 60$ shoes, or you can go to Walmart and but 10$ shoes. Most people wouldn't think of wearing the cheapest shoes but they have no problem injecting the cheapest who knows what Into their body! It's gnarly and it makes no sense. But in these times everyone likes to pay less, whether they are being completely scammed or not doesn't make much difference when it comes time to pay their money. 

I am grateful we have advocated like Marcus and this site sharing their knowledge. For the ones that get it, kudos, the ones that done I wish them the best....

----------


## marcus300

In most cases the generic sources what get pumped so much are first born on a source board, some source decides to pay a board to advertise and then the forum starts producing fake results, fake blood work, false accounts saying just bought some and its powerful I've ever tried and then its starts to breed and grow stronger that some secret source what's 100% is producing these super pink tops or what ever colour they are doing now lol. Before you know it everyone is buying them and doing detailed logs how good they are but they are kidding themselves and us. Soon this wonder source gets taken down and then suddenly a new source again from China starts advertising these new wonder purple tops lol and the circle starts all over again. If only they try pharm grade for any length of time then they will know what real gh is suppose to feel like and how you respond to it.... :Smilie:

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## EasyDoesIt

Yeah they talk about how magnificent they feel trying to justify paying for the junk. I always give them a rude awakening and since they're really not confident in what they're taking they look at you with that deer staring at a car's headlights coming at them.then I tell them the most expensive part of the product is the bottles in box that they came in. But there's a fresh crop of new buyers every day so it will continue to go on and on. It's kind of like the bar business somebody new turns 21 every day. The worst part are the guys that say they're going to keep taking it because they can't afford farm grade even after you tell them it's not HGH. That usually ends the conversation.

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## jdog55

Hmmm. I don't sell anything or know anything so don't pm me, but I want to give my opinion. Many people want to try GH and dont have $10,000.00 to spend for 6 months of GH. If you get chinese stuff and don't trust it, then go get lab work done. Getting lab work for IGF and GH serum score for every 100iu of chinese is still way way cheaper than pharma stuff. There is real chinese GH. There are some from china that are able to get the legit name brand GH makers in china to provide some to the market. Also do you know where most of the research peptides originally come from? That's right, china. 

Also can pharma stuff really be trusted lately? Has anyone else noticed that every source and their grandma not have genotropin in stock? Where has this flood come from? 

If I was never wiling to try chinese then I would have never been able to try GH at all.

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## tdoe11

> Hmmm. I don't sell anything or know anything so don't pm me, but I want to give my opinion. Many people want to try GH and dont have $10,000.00 to spend for 6 months of GH. If you get chinese stuff and don't trust it, then go get lab work done. Getting lab work for IGF and GH serum score for every 100iu of chinese is still way way cheaper than pharma stuff. There is real chinese GH. There are some from china that are able to get the legit name brand GH makers in china to provide some to the market. Also do you know where most of the research peptides originally come from? That's right, china. Also can pharma stuff really be trusted lately? Has anyone else noticed that every source and their grandma not have genotropin in stock? Where has this flood come from? If I was never wiling to try chinese then I would have never been able to try GH at all.


How was your progress with Chinese GH and what was your protocol?

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## PT

This is the best post ever. It's 100% correct and exactly what happens. It cracks me up how many people fall for it



> In most cases the generic sources what get pumped so much are first born on a source board, some source decides to pay a board to advertise and then the forum starts producing fake results, fake blood work, false accounts saying just bought some and its powerful I've ever tried and then its starts to breed and grow stronger that some secret source what's 100% is producing these super pink tops or what ever colour they are doing now lol. Before you know it everyone is buying them and doing detailed logs how good they are but they are kidding themselves and us. Soon this wonder source gets taken down and then suddenly a new source again from China starts advertising these new wonder purple tops lol and the circle starts all over again. If only they try pharm grade for any length of time then they will know what real gh is suppose to feel like and how you respond to it....

----------


## EasyDoesIt

Referring to chinese hgh seems to be the problem that gets misinterpreted. Chinese product sold as hgh, is not hgh, at least not in the U.S. So there is no comparison to compare. Not watered down hgh or hgh at all. I don't care what they are using, it's not hgh. If you tried chinese sawdust, the money wasted could be saved for real pharm hgh. If you cannot afford pharm hgh, end of story, it's not affordable. There are many things I would like to have in this world, I don't buy what I cannot afford. Pharm brand HGH is not sold on websites, the days of a product like that being grabbed out of the shipping area of the mfg. are long over, especially in quantities to really sell. I do not believe there are secret connections to get real. The connections come from a script that someone sells. The sites selling with verification codes etc. are fake. I along with others here have already experienced all of that verification codes and threads on label. Excellent scam and they had me once, but never again. That thinking there are sources with proper codes is what led me to being screwed. I already explained this too many times in this thread, so I m not going into depth again. This thread needs to be read thoroughly before commenting on what's been beaten to death!
Also, hcg has not been used to fake HGH in years, it's to easy to detect.

----------


## jdog55

> Referring to chinese hgh seems to be the problem that gets misinterpreted. Chinese product sold as hgh, is not hgh, at least not in the U.S. So there is no comparison to compare. Not watered down hgh or hgh at all. I don't care what they are using, it's not hgh. If you tried chinese sawdust, the money wasted could be saved for real pharm hgh. If you cannot afford pharm hgh, end of story, it's not affordable. There are many things I would like to have in this world, I don't buy what I cannot afford. Pharm brand HGH is not sold on websites, the days of a product like that being grabbed out of the shipping area of the mfg. are long over, especially in quantities to really sell. I do not believe there are secret connections to get real. The connections come from a script that someone sells. The sites selling with verification codes etc. are fake. I along with others here have already experienced all of that verification codes and threads on label. Excellent scam and they had me once, but never again. That thinking there are sources with proper codes is what led me to being screwed. I already explained this too many times in this thread, so I m not going into depth again. This thread needs to be read thoroughly before commenting on what's been beaten to death!
> Also, hcg has not been used to fake HGH in years, it's to easy to detect.


Then why would "chinese HGH" give personally tested serum scores of 35 GH serum with IGF tested after two months at 557 IGF. There is no way it would be ghrp because I can feel the raise in cortisol from any of those. Also I lost plenty of bodyfat. There has been changes in the GH game in the last 10 years...everything comes from china now-a-days. Almost every steroid compound now comes from chinese bulk powers before made into a "brand". Same with peptides.

Sure there are a lot of people that sell fake chinese HGH, but there are real ones to.

----------


## EasyDoesIt

> Then why would "chinese HGH" give personally tested serum scores of 35 GH serum with IGF tested after two months at 557 IGF. There is no way it would be ghrp because I can feel the raise in cortisol from any of those. Also I lost plenty of bodyfat. There has been changes in the GH game in the last 10 years...everything comes from china now-a-days. Almost every steroid compound now comes from chinese bulk powers before made into a "brand". Same with peptides.
> 
> Sure there are a lot of people that sell fake chinese HGH, but there are real ones to.


I don't know if your in US or not. Yes majority of powders do come out of China and that's a reason most UG oils here in US are weak. Let's not compare what China sells to major pharmaceutical that tests powders and is a multi million dollar account per year to home brewers spending a thousand or more a year. Those guys are at the mercy of what they get. Chinese are great aren't they with there sweat shops and working conditions of their own people. I still wonder why people are trying so hard to convince others it's good. It's like saying give it a try there's a 1% chance you won't waste your money. That's what keeps the crooks going selling the junk.

----------


## Malcome

After reading many pages of this thread and as a newbie, the general conclusion is there is no HGH to be trusted but the $18/IU stuff. It's very discouraging to find no help. People mention to check sources out for oneself, but after dozens of hours searching I have only learned about all the fakes. I came here to find a legit source which your rules prevent. 

I believe both sides of the augment that both the fake manufacturers and the real are probably making up websites and promoting on forum boards to push their products and to destroy the competition. It's only logical considering the profits. And that China must be making a legit product for their own people who require it.

I question the assumption that it has to be expensive to be good considering how big pharma will charge 50 times more for a drug in the USA than a poor country. I'm not implying HGH is made for a dollar but I don't believe it needs to be $18/IU either.

I'm 63 m,6',175 lb,no gut and have avoided most all strenuous exercise, never lifted weights for more than a few months, got discourage from the slow progress. I consider the burn when working out painful and would like to take a pain killer to stop it.lol. I have been practicing a healthy lifestyle with supplements. I feel 21 and have no aches or pains and I don't take any medication. Since I couldn't bench a 100lb at 21 and I can't now I don't feel I have lost anything, nothing to compare it to.

What I want HGH for is the healing abilities. I want to start building a more muscular base to last me as I get older and realize I will have to push myself and I want to avoid injuries. My doctor agrees and I have a prescription for Somatropin. If can't get it in the USA, my 1st priority, which country should I move to get cheap good HGH? Is Jintropin legit in Columbia since GenSci say they supply there? 

To Marcus and others, thanks for your time posting.

Edited due to almostgone suggestion for fishing, but how do i hope to find it? It's so discouraging. I hope I edited the right sentence.

----------


## almostgone

Malcome, please edit your post Your last sentence falls under the category of "fishing".

----------


## lovbyts

> After reading many pages of this thread and as a newbie, the general conclusion is there is no HGH to be trusted but the $18/IU stuff. It's very discouraging to find no help. People mention to check sources out for oneself, but after dozens of hours searching I have only learned about all the fakes. I came here to find a legit source which your rules prevent. 
> 
> I believe both sides of the augment that both the fake manufacturers and the real are probably making up websites and promoting on forum boards to push their products and to destroy the competition. It's only logical considering the profits. And that China must be making a legit product for their own people who require it.
> 
> I question the assumption that it has to be expensive to be good considering how big pharma will charge 50 times more for a drug in the USA than a poor country. I'm not implying HGH is made for a dollar but I don't believe it needs to be $18/IU either.
> 
> *I'm 63 m,6',175 lb,no gut and have avoided most all strenuous exercise, never lifted weights for more than a few months, got discourage from the slow progress.* I consider the burn when working out painful and would like to take a pain killer to stop it.lol. I have been practicing a healthy lifestyle with supplements. I feel 21 and have no aches or pains and I don't take any medication. Since I couldn't bench a 100lb at 21 and I can't now I don't feel I have lost anything, nothing to compare it to.
> 
> What I want HGH for is the healing abilities. I want to start building a more muscular base to last me as I get older and realize I will have to push myself and I want to avoid injuries. My doctor agrees and I have a prescription for Somatropin. If can't get it in the USA, my 1st priority, which country should I move to get cheap good HGH? Is Jintropin legit in Columbia since GenSci say they supply there? 
> ...


AAS/Steroids or HGH are not for you. Just be happy with who you are if you arent willing to put the work into achieving your goals. PLEASE dont say you are because your statement above clearly proves otherwise. You are looking for a quick fix just like 90% of society. Welcome to being average.

Anyone who is successful making gains work out for years consistently 4-5x a week. You have aches and pains because your body is pushing out toxins and your muscles are not use to the extra work. If you cant deal with it then again, it's not for you. If you want to talk about aches and pains Ive had 2 back surgeries, was paralyzed from the waist down for 2 weeks due to nerve damage before last one, extensive shoulder surgery and about a dozen other minor surgeries. As they say, no pain no gain.

----------


## Malcome

> AAS/Steroids or HGH are not for you. Just be happy with who you are if you arent willing to put the work into achieving your goals. .


I know your right and have heard this all my life about no pain no gain. But none the less HGH at my age is helpful for so much more than just muscle building so I still want to get it. Other steroids are probably not right for me.

I will try harder to enjoy suffering to make some modest gains. Maybe if I see some results it will encourage me to suffer agony more. I know that this is not the place to discuss this but could you show me a link to where one can tell the pain is helping one gain instead of doing damage which pain usually means.

I'm impressed with how you could work out with the bad back without further damaging it.

----------


## lovbyts

> I know your right and have heard this all my life about no pain no gain. But none the less HGH at my age is helpful for so much more than just muscle building so I still want to get it. Other steroids are probably not right for me.
> 
> I will try harder to enjoy suffering to make some modest gains. Maybe if I see some results it will encourage me to suffer agony more. I know that this is not the place to discuss this but could you show me a link to where one can tell the pain is helping one gain instead of doing damage which pain usually means.
> 
> I'm impressed with how you could work out with the bad back without further damaging it.


Yes at 63 it has many benefits BUT only if you get real HGH. If you have $1000s to waste then try generic but if your money is valuable to you then seek out getting and RX for it. I had an RX for a little over 1yr and it was nice. I have tried many many generics and spent more than I would like to admit to and 100% there was no comparison to rx HGH. Ive tossed out plenty because I knew it was fake. 

Take the time to find a doctor to write an RX. If I was to do it again (eventually) it's would be a LOT cheaper to fly to Florida and find a doctor to prescribe it.

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## Malcome

> Take the time to find a doctor to write an RX. If I was to do it again (eventually) it's would be a LOT cheaper to fly to Florida and find a doctor to prescribe it.


I agree is why I already have a prescription for 100 IU of Somatropin. I got on this website to find a some real Jintropin some how.

.

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## Malcome

Finally, thru a yahoo discussion group who will mention names did I contact with a European group with a Hong Kong source and just today got real Jintropin that past the Gensci fake codes tests, fibers and all. Shipped from Hong Kong in 5 days for a total of $286 for 80iu to Calf., sorry I can't say according to forum rules. But it's real and out there. The prescription helped me get the original box as from GenSci but he said he could repack it to get it thru otherwise but that would mean opening the coded boxes seal ID.

Moderators if this is not with rule standards please delete, I thought people would like to know it's possible.

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## thisAngelBites

> Finally, thru a yahoo discussion group who will mention names did I contact with a European group with a Hong Kong source and just today got real Jintropin that past the Gensci fake codes tests, fibers and all. Shipped from Hong Kong in 5 days for a total of $286 for 80iu to Calf., sorry I can't say according to forum rules. But it's real and out there. The prescription helped me get the original box as from GenSci but he said he could repack it to get it thru otherwise but that would mean opening the coded boxes seal ID.
> 
> Moderators if this is not with rule standards please delete, I thought people would like to know it's possible.


I can't tell how you know it's real. I bought some from an actual pharmacy and it turned out to be fake, and it also had the fibres and code.

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## Malcome

> I can't tell how you know it's real. I bought some from an actual pharmacy and it turned out to be fake, and it also had the fibres and code.


Did you go to the GenSci, the manufacturer of Jintropin and put in the code numbers and see you were the 1st one who used that code and it matched up with the photograph they took of the code lable that showed the same fibers on the boxed you received plus could lift up individual fibers proving they could not be faked? Mine did all that and since the company is producing a legit product supplying the Chinese medical industry, I see no reason to fake it and I find no way to fake the security tests they provide. I will report back in several months and see my HGH lab test results.

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## thisAngelBites

> Did you go to the GenSci, the manufacturer of Jintropin and put in the code numbers and see you were the 1st one who used that code and it matched up with the photograph they took of the code lable that showed the same fibers on the boxed you received plus could lift up individual fibers proving they could not be faked? Mine did all that and since the company is producing a legit product supplying the Chinese medical industry, I see no reason to fake it and I find no way to fake the security tests they provide. I will report back in several months and see my HGH lab test results.


Yes, I did exactly what you did and got the same results at the official GenSci website. Fibres were all correct as well. And it was junk.

Furthermore there are other people here that GenSci themselves put in touch directly with their own distributors, who not only sent fake crap to some people, but also took some people's money and sent them nothing. People complained to GenSci, and somehow, these people are still GenSci's distributor. Ask yourself why such an "upstanding", "legit" company like GenSci would be involved with such unprofessional behaviour, and would send their customers to people who they know rip people off.

I believe that you do not see any reason or way for GenSci to fake GH and the security details on their website - we all thought that at one time. You should consider spending some time reading this thread (Chinese GH) in its entirety, and the Jintropin thread as well. They are lengthy and will take days to read, but hopefully that will start to open your eyes. There have been many that came before you that were as optimistic about Jintropin and GenSci as you are and just thought they needed a good source, but when the maker is in on the deception, that makes it a lot harder. They know about the black market for GH, and seem happy to capitalise on it, knowing full well that people have no repercussions when they rip them off. Good luck to you.

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## Malcome

> Yes, I did exactly what you did and got the same results at the official GenSci website. Fibres were all correct as well. And it was junk.


Thank you for the post. I had seen that mentioned the company could be fakes. Has this been recently? Why would a company take a short approach to profit knowing in the long term it will destroy their reputation and ruin profits. I assumed you took high dosages of your fake stuff to see if you got side effects. Is there a way for me to know? I have no reference since I never took hgh before.

Here is a picture of the Hong kong box, I don't see this image on the net from other sources. Is this the same box you got?

----------


## thisAngelBites

First, there are loads of that photograph on the internet. You can find ones in cyrillic, and in chinese, but also lots of these in english. I did a google image search and found about 10 in the first two pages.

Second, looking at the box is not going to tell you anything about whether what is inside is legit or not. People do spend a lot of time examining all the packaging, because everyone is looking for some justification that what they have is genuine. If GenSci is supplying fakes to the black market (and there are good reasons to think they are), then they can put them in legitimate packaging and examining the packaging is not going to tell anyone anything. (although there are probably also non-GenSci fakes that have egregiously fake packages)

If you spend a minute looking at GenSci's website, you can see how much of it has the black market buyer as the intended audience. If you email a real pharmaceutical maker of GH, they will not send you email addresses of people to buy from, they will tell you these are prescription products and tell you to speak to your physician. But Gensci will send you info of people you can buy from, and list some of the online places that sell fakes (meaning: places that are selling stuff marked "Jintropin" that they receive no profit from). They also will tell you how to dose the stuff -which no reputable pharmaceutical company would do.

Here's something you might find thought-provoking: go have a look at the Paraguay distributor for Jintropin. You will find that they are a company selling exclusively anabolic steroids and jintropin (which GenSci calls Landertropin in Paraguay, for the company who sells the stuff, Landerlan). So they are not some proper pharmaceutical distributor but a supplier for bodybuilding chemicals.

And I don't see how it is relevant as to WHEN (recently or not) they were ripping people off. Why would it matter unless one was entertaining some crazy idea in order to convince oneself that what they are buying is real. That would require some thought process like this: jintropin used to be in on selling fake GH on the black market, but now they have seen the light and are only selling real stuff to everyone. Seriously, how could anyone think that a company that would do what they do would suddenly stop with the fraud? What possible reason would dishonesty suddenly morph into legitimacy. It's really a rationalising technique.

At one point, GenSci had listed a seller in Mexico on their list of sellers of fake jintropin (you can find the list on their website). At the same time, they were sending out the same seller's info as a source in reply to web inquiries about where to buy REAL Jintropin. Talk about not having your story straight! When I saw this I knew that Marcus was right and this company was far from legit.

And to reply to your question: why would a company take a short approach to profit knowing in the long term it will destroy their reputation and ruin profits?

Sigh. I think trying to determine whether your product is real by theorising about all the possible business motivations is a waste of time. The bodybuilding industry (who are the major consumers of black market GH) is full of places that sell underdosed or fake crap for short term profits. By your reasoning, none of that should exist, and yet it has existed for decades. Marcus even had an experience with another Chinese supplier (Anke Bio - who is, just like GenSci, one of those crossover companies that makes some biosimilars for the Chinese market while also targeting the international market of bodybuilders) where they offered him free growth hormone if he would positively endorse their GH in online forums.

Even real, proper pharmaceutical companies sell drugs that show problematic and even dangerous (if rare) side effects in studies, suppress those facts (they throw people who get the side effects out of their studies, etc.) and manage to get their drugs approved. Sometimes it takes years for people to catch on, during which time the company is raking in the dough. On your theory, this should not happen due to the fact that the company should be prioritising long term company success, yet it does happen, and in fact happens again and again and again.

There is no way to tell 100% if your GH is real apart from buying with a prescription from a pharmacy in a 1st world country. Probably the best alternative way would be to have a seasoned bodybuilder who has used real pharmaceutical GH for years use it.

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## Malcome

> First, there are loads of that photograph on the internet. You can find ones in cyrillic, and in chinese, but also lots of these in english. I did a google image search and found about 10 in the first two pages.
> .


Thanks again for your post. When I googled searched that picture I only found a couple similar packages and 4 of those were the same company with different names. Most had a yellow ribbon on the package, mine had the green. It's in english because many in Hong Kong speak English since it is formerly a British colony. And many who visit use English as a second language. so when the visit Hong Kng they do purchase HGH.

I will get my HGH blood serum tested 1st and then 4 hours later after an injection with an 4 IU. Do you think that would prove it? I know of no seasoned bodybuilder and doubt I can find one who would trust strangers.

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## thisAngelBites

I do understand why the boxes are written in several languages. The ones in Mexico are presumably written in Spanish.  :Smilie: 

Even if you had someone at your disposal like an experienced bodybuilder who had been on real GH for years, you would have to buy ten more boxes for him to try it at his dose for a sufficient period of time to know anything.

I don't know how to prove it, Malcome. I wouldn't believe it based on a serum result, but I have been reading about growth hormone for a few years and I'm somewhat skeptical on people's chances of getting real growth hormone on the black market. I'm sure it occurs, but I suspect significantly less people get real stuff than think they have real stuff. And then the companies get their employees to come on to these boards (and many others), to pose as happy users. We have a couple that turn up here every now and again, and will be along to argue soon. You can often sniff those people out by searching for their user names and looking at their posts and how they post exclusively in jintropin threads.

As for blood work, there are people who have posted who have used Chinese and then tested blood, and got no increase in IGF-1, and then others who have gotten an increase in IGF-1 and then those who got tremendous increases in IGF-1 - far beyond what people who were using genuine pharma with a prescription have gotten. Similar results have been gotten with serum GH tests.

That leads people to wonder if there is something being put in the vials that increases the IGF-1, but isn't as expensive as GH. Or whether people are synthesising recombinant human growth hormone, but the quality is not very good. There are a lot of requirements to make the proper growth hormone, and then to properly remove toxins (many GHs, including some pharmaceutical grades, are made in e. coli and removing the toxins is important in making the GH safe), and then to make sure it is stored properly so that it stays active until its expiration date.

Additionally, growth hormone is a big peptide and needs to be folded at exactly the right places in order for the body to be able to use it. So you could technically get a substance that is growth hormone, with the same mass, that causes blood tests to register that there is more growth hormone in the blood, but the growth hormone cannot attach to the body's receptors because it is not folded in the right places, for example.

It's a minefield, and there are no easy answers other than really, seriously knowing your source. There is even debate in Europe about approving other biosimilar peptide drugs based on the approvals of the originals (growth hormone, EPO, etc.), and the new manufacturers do not want to have to go through all the testing and trials when they think they are making the same thing as another company -and the technology is not there to just test the substances and approve them based on the tests to analyse the products themselves.

I have a prescription for omnitrope in a European country, and so I can buy in a pharmacy there and I'm sure it's legit. I know a guy in Mexico who has lived there for years and knows a lot of people in the medical community and he sells pharma, and I think his is quite likely to be real (although I don't know personally), but he sells it for about five times what you paid, but then it is Swiss GH.

And worst part is that you might find someone to do business with that will sell you genuine the first time, and you can try and satisfy yourself with a blood test, then sell you bunk after that. It's very hard to know, and there is a lot of money at stake - given that, anything can happen. I hope your stuff is real, but who knows?

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## Malcome

> I do understand why the boxes are written in several languages. The ones in Mexico are presumably written in Spanish.


Very informative. I thought the blood serum test might be better than the IGF-1 test, but you have valid points on how it could show positive. If this doesn't work out I just might go and live in Columbia, Russia or elsewhere to use it. If I have to pay a larger fee in the USA I might as well enjoy a good extended vacation for the money I would save and no GMO food or chemtrails. It will probably cost me less to live there than the states. I definitely want to use HGH for general health benefits. If I can extend my good health another 40 year who knows what new discoveries there will be to extend it more.

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## thisAngelBites

I completely get it, Malcome. There are lots of places you could get this stuff much cheaper, and be able to get real stuff through official channels. There's a part of me that would love to go live in a cheaper place with more freedoms to optimise my health.

If there were a way to positively ensure that what is in a vial is real, bioavailable GH, we would all be buying the cheap generics, and using them once we tested to make sure they're legit. 

As a side note, I think the difficulties in these areas are part of what drives these people to distribute fakes. It's next to impossible to determine what's in those vials, and a lot of the Chinese biologics manufacturers synthesise many different peptides, and it is possible that they have found some which may alter blood results to (either by accident, or by design) to mimic the blood results of GH.

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## frostfire

HGH is such a joke and is a waste of money, stick to AAS.

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## Malcome

> HGH is such a joke and is a waste of money, stick to AAS.


Maybe for body building, but many use it including major athletes. But HGH is fantastic for speeding healing which slows when one gets older.

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## tdoe11

> HGH is such a joke and is a waste of money, stick to AAS.


Hgh is actually quite awesome for changing your body. I am shocked at where the last 7 months has brought me. I actually love the stuff. 

If you are looking for size and weight then yes hgh is not going to be your best ally. At the point I am at, I am no longer looking to run things like dbol and deca to put on sloppy weight. I want quality not quantity. Plus when aas growth slows over time hgh can re kick in your gaining process. It's actually quite miraculous.

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## reporich

> Hgh is actually quite awesome for changing your body. I am shocked at where the last 7 months has brought me. I actually love the stuff. 
> 
> If you are looking for size and weight then yes hgh is not going to be your best ally. At the point I am at, I am no longer looking to run things like dbol and deca to put on sloppy weight. I want quality not quantity. Plus when aas growth slows over time hgh can re kick in your gaining process. It's actually quite miraculous.


What brand and dose are you using? Thanks

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## tdoe11

> What brand and dose are you using? Thanks


 Serostim at 3.5 up to 5ius a day. For general fat loss, dreams, awesome skin and general well being 3.5 is plenty if it's Pharma. 

Once you have had Pharma and realize its strength I shrug when I hear of people taking 10+IUs of generic. Try that crap with Pharma and see how long you can do it haha

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## Malcome

Well the Jintropin I got from Hong Kong with a prescription lab tests are back. What I got for my HGH blood serum levels. The 1st is when I was fasting and have never taken HGH in my life. It read, 0.29 ng/ml. The second test was 4 hours later after I injected 4 IU right after the 1st test. It read 12.50 ng/ml. So think this HGH reacts great in my body.

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## thisAngelBites

So Malcome, how do you know that the jintropin is folded properly and can actually attach to your receptors? Maybe there is real growth hormone in the vials - I have no idea.

I don't know how much the blood values are supposed to change - I know that there are some people here that have tested their blood with real GH they got from a proper pharmacy, so they have an idea how much growth hormone raises their serum GH (or IGF-1 - people test that as well), but then there is some "GH" that seems to raise blood levels much higher than real pharmaceutical growth hormone and is suspect, as well as some that seem underdosed.

I don't actually understand how the testing is supposed to work. I was under the impression that growth hormone had a 15 minute half life, so based on that, if you take a shot, and test four hours later, I would think it would be back to baseline. Hopefully someone else that knows more about testing will chime in for you.

And then there is some where people's tests seem to indicate that the GH is real, but the bodybuilders taking it say it doesn't feel anything like real GH - so who knows what to conclude? I've looked at some of the companies that produce growth hormone in China, and most of them manufacture many other biologics - so there could be many different kinds of peptides in there. I think it's not very knowable.

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## lovbyts

> Well the Jintropin I got from Hong Kong with a prescription lab tests are back. What I got for my HGH blood serum levels. The 1st is when I was fasting and have never taken HGH in my life. It read, 0.29 ng/ml. The second test was 4 hours later after I injected 4 IU right after the 1st test. It read 12.50 ng/ml. So think this HGH reacts great in my body.


I'm not calling you a liar because I dont know you but I suspect any newbie coming here touting HGH. Ive been around long enough to know that's exactly what sources do just to stir up some more buisness by tricking those who are weak minded and easily fooled into thinking all of the sudden there is a new legit source out there only to find out after spending $$$$ and a few months of time to discover they have been scammed. Just my .02

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## marcus300

Another blood test result, where do I start Mmmmmmmm

I know try page one of this thread and read every page and word

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## Malcome

I have been looking for Jintropin for over 8 months and have spent time going to Mexico 3 times and money by getting fakes already. I'm new to body builder forum boards because I was using them to help me find it. It appears over many years that you guys have seen the worst hustlers around because I have been banned from one forum for one contact with a member, not even a post trying to share what I might have found, just to be helpful because I know how hard it is to find and want to help the next guy. I have absolutely no motif to make any money, I just wanted to help others and the seller because I supposedly got the real thing.

I will report back occasionally with any effects. I've only used it for 9 days now and exercised for the 1st time, I'm lazy. I did double the routine what I used to do and felt great, not wiped out like before and the skin on my hands is smoother with less wrinkles. Is this proof I don't know, is it in my head, I don't know. I'll just see what happens. I'm going to push certain aches or pains I'll get to see at 64 how well I heal or don't.

Dam the governments and companies that keep products from people for greed and control. It shouldn't be this hard or expensive to want to improve and extends one life with known and proven chemicals. Especially dam the people that have riped off so many people that all this massive distrust that abounds. 

I can't do anything to prove myself, sorry. Just wanted to share. I also thought by sharing a source that it also would help me prove the quality of the products by having others more experienced than me use it and report back. I guess that logic goes out the window too.

The blood test thing is something I got off the forum boards and they recommended the 4 hours between test. They recommended 10 IU but since I never did it before I was cautious and only did the 4IU. I don't have any life long gym buddies to help guide me.

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## lovbyts

As Marcus said, go back to page one and read it. Lots of good info there.

Most all HGH is faked and over the years the companies faking it have found better and better peptides that will mimic side effects that some people seem to get from it as well as raising your IFG levels but you dont get that longevity or other real benefits you would from real HGH.

With real HGH it's impossible to start seeing or feeling any benefits in a couple of weeks let a long a couple of months, maybe 3+ months minimum.

If you are lazy and not really into working out then what is your purpose of using HGH, just the health benefits? You dont need 10iu for sure then or even 5. I would not go over 3iu unless you were seriously into working out 5x a week and had a very healthy diet. If you dont do things right even if it is real HGH the only thing you are going to get is the HGH extended gut and if it's not real HGH then who knows especially long term.

Thanks for trying to share but unless you have a legit pharmacy connection from one of the very few manufactures of HGH if it was me I would give it a pass.

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## Malcome

I'm up to my lazy self and hardly have exercised. 1 months ago I could only do 3 pushups and now I did 12, I cut myself 4 days ago and it is healed instead of the red inflammation I get for 2 weeks and I added 10 lb to my backpack to my weekly 1 mile uphill hike to 70lb and my heart beat only raised 12 beats to 175. Pathetic I know but tops for me, I couldn't do 10 push ups at 21. professional lazy. lol Went in for another lab test for IGF-1 and others will report back. I love this placebo effect, I didn't realize my mind was so powerful.

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## lovbyts

Well 12 pushups doesnt sound like a very strong placebo to me. Maybe it has something to do with actually exercising and improving. I can typically do 40+ pushups at a time and I actually consider that pretty pathetic.

If it's working for you then great, even if it is placebo.

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## tdoe11

Just wanted to update this thread real quick.....

A vet on another forum is testing many, and eventually all the popular non pharma Chinese gh brands with mass spec and HPLC testing. These are testing so poorly, many don't even contain gh in them. The ones that do have a very small amount, and often it contains improperly folded proteins. My understanding is improperly folded proteins will cause many problems down the line, one can potentially be Parkinson's disease......

I, just like the next guy want to find the "golden goose" of "cheap" human growth hormones. I have even ran Chinese generics in the past. The thing is this.....they don't exist

It is very expensive, and extremely in depth to make growth. Even if the generics you are purchasing have gh in them (which they probably do not) and then are of good, safe purity (which they probably are not) you can still be getting wrongly altered proteins that will cause serious problems down the line. 

Just wanted to let you guys know.......be careful ladies and gents.

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## lovbyts

> Just wanted to update this thread real quick.....
> 
> A vet on another forum is testing many, and eventually all the popular non pharma Chinese gh brands with mass spec and HPLC testing. These are testing so poorly, many don't even contain gh in them. The ones that do have a very small amount, and often it contains improperly folded proteins.* My understanding is improperly folded proteins will cause many problems down the line, one can potentially be Parkinson's disease......*
> 
> I, just like the next guy want to find the "golden goose" of "cheap" human growth hormones. I have even ran Chinese generics in the past. The thing is this.....they don't exist
> 
> It is very expensive, and extremely in depth to make growth. Even if the generics you are purchasing have gh in them (which they probably do not) and then are of good, safe purity (which they probably are not) you can still be getting wrongly altered proteins that will cause serious problems down the line. 
> 
> Just wanted to let you guys know.......be careful ladies and gents.


How many times have we said (warned people) that we did not know but were worried about the long term negative effects of some of these Chinese cheap fake HGH clones out there?

I'm sure there will be a lot of people who still wont listen and keep trying but at this point at least we can say they were warned and we did our best. It wont do them any good but I will sleep better.

Thanks for the information. Hopefully it will get around.

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## marcus300

> Just wanted to update this thread real quick.....
> 
> A vet on another forum is testing many, and eventually all the popular non pharma Chinese gh brands with mass spec and HPLC testing. These are testing so poorly, many don't even contain gh in them. The ones that do have a very small amount, and often it contains improperly folded proteins. My understanding is improperly folded proteins will cause many problems down the line, one can potentially be Parkinson's disease......
> 
> I, just like the next guy want to find the "golden goose" of "cheap" human growth hormones. I have even ran Chinese generics in the past. The thing is this.....they don't exist
> 
> It is very expensive, and extremely in depth to make growth. Even if the generics you are purchasing have gh in them (which they probably do not) and then are of good, safe purity (which they probably are not) you can still be getting wrongly altered proteins that will cause serious problems down the line. 
> 
> Just wanted to let you guys know.......be careful ladies and gents.


Its what ive been preaching for years

some have extremely dangerous chemicals and some have other growth releasing agents

You cant buy cheap hgh, if its cheap its shit!!!

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## tdoe11

Yup. It's pretty scary. Man o man. Parkinson's? That's gnarly, especially considering "real" high has very minimal effects over a long period in comparison to aas. I am sure people will still use it to, but at least i know I tried as well. I will continue to update as things and testing progresses.....

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## Sgt. Hartman

It'd be impossible to make any credible connection between Parkinson's and bunk gh. Sure it's possible but nearly anything is possible so no reason to take the chicken little sky is falling view of it.

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## tdoe11

> It'd be impossible to make any credible connection between Parkinson's and bunk gh. Sure it's possible but nearly anything is possible so no reason to take the chicken little sky is falling view of it.


This was advice given from a PHd who works directly with Parkinson's and similar diseases. Improperly folded proteins, according to him, can cause Parkinson's and other diseases down the line. Many Chinese hghs proteins have been improperly folded during manufacturing. That is the ones that actually carry hgh in them. 

But, as all information, take it or leave it. If you choose to disregard that is your choice. Just passing along the knowledge that was given to me......

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## thisAngelBites

Improperly folded proteins are implicated in lots of health concerns. They body cannot remove them efficiently. I keep meaning to write up a post with some journal articles. I will see if I can dig some up.

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## tdoe11

> Improperly folded proteins are implicated in lots of health concerns. They body cannot remove them efficiently. I keep meaning to write up a post with some journal articles. I will see if I can dig some up.


That would be great!

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## thisAngelBites

Here's something I found that gives a decent overview of proteins and folding:

Protein Misfolding and Degenerative Diseases | Learn Science at Scitable

It doesn't just gloss over the subject, but neither does it assume that the reader has any background knowledge. I will try and see if I can relocate all the articles I was going to use to write up something in more detail about this (my browser crashed and I lost all my tabs, sadly, so will have to start again).

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## tarmyg

The world's longest thread about why any HGH that is not from an actual pharmacy should not be put in your body and people still do it. I am baffled honestly!

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## lovbyts

> The world's longest thread about why any HGH that is not from an actual pharmacy should not be put in your body and people still do it. I am baffled honestly!


Pride. Especially once someone spends the money they won't admit they were wrong even if it means health risk. Same mentality for teens, it won't happen to me even though there is proof it will.

Thank you and those who are still trying to spread the word.

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## Simon1972

> The world's longest thread about why any HGH that is not from an actual pharmacy should not be put in your body and people still do it. I am baffled honestly!


you mean this stuff isnt real!!!! ohhhhhhhh dang nam it!

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## lovbyts

> you mean this stuff isnt real!!!! ohhhhhhhh dang nam it!
> 
> <img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=157564"/>


Unfortunately it's not nearly that obvious or it would be easy to convince people. It's when they come in vials and pens that look exactly like the real manufacturing companies sell only to pharmacy's.

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## Far from massive

Hell a few years ago when I last bought some Hyges, the pamphlet was not even folded properly :-)

Thanks for the link Angel it was a great read. I can just see an unregulated Chinese manufacturer who was actually going to all the trouble to try to make real HGH find out some of the protein chains were showing up as improperly folded dumping the whole run....Yeah right!

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## thisAngelBites

You're welcome. It's interesting stuff and we're learning so much about the difficulties with these proteopathies - I don't think anyone knows for sure how they affect us.

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## diabolicsoul

That's why I'd only get HGH from a script. Scary to think about the people who wasted money, and injected themselves with something that can cause potential health problems down the line

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## marcus300

bump

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## SlammiN

Ok I have only just come across all this info, so now I don't know what to think.

I have been on a course of Euro Pharma Eurotropin 4iu ED for the past 4 weeks. 2iu 6am, 2iu 4pm

I have been measuring my blood glucose levels to see how they react.

Just before 2iu GH shot - Blood glucose is 6.2mmol
10 mins after GH shot - Blood glucose is 5.6mmol
20 mins after GH shot - Blood glucose is 5.7mmol
30 mins after GH shot - Blood glucose is 4.8mmol
1hr 45mins after GH shot - Blood glucose is 4.3mmol - This is after a workout too
After this I had some protein and prob 30g carbs
10 mins after Blood glucose is 4.3mmol
20 mins after Blood glucose is 5.1mmol

What does this mean? Is this any indication at all that this is HGH or not? Unsure what I am supposed to do after reading all this!

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## nba2005uk

I have close friends who tried both pharma and GOOD chinese. Experienced very similar side effects and results, the only difference was the price tag. Clearly people here have had bad experiences with chinese hgh which is fair enough as it is commonly faked. But trust me there is good suppliers out there. You'll know who these are because they have been around for years, have 1000's of people speaking positively about them online, and PLENTY of blood results to prove it. Are you really naive enough to believe these suppliers are paying several 100 if not 1000's forum members to lie and say its good stuff when it really isn't. I wont mention the supplier I get it from but hes one of the most popular online and I've been using it for well over a year. Took me a while to see solid gains but it eventually came and completely changed my physique. 
Just my 2 cents.

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## EasyDoesIt

I know what you mean, I believe every knucklehead in the gym that tells me his hgh is just as good as the pharm and a lot cheaper to because manufacturing it is just like making a bottle of test. It's all the same stuff. I don't comment on here much anymore, but like every other industry people are always trying to battle the bashings about their products or services. A Volkswagon cannot be built for the same cost of a Mercedes. PERIOD.... I am not going to go back and forth with you about it because I have no agenda and don't care if people think all quality is the same. There will always be people with their head in the sand playing Ostrich to reality and cannot fathom paying for quality. Non pharm is much higher than pharm cause it is not the same product! There are loads of people around here saying theirs is just as good and no one is paying them to say it they do not want to stop paying cheap prices for junk, so they do not face reality.

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## nba2005uk

> I know what you mean, I believe every knucklehead in the gym that tells me his hgh is just as good as the pharm and a lot cheaper to because manufacturing it is just like making a bottle of test. It's all the same stuff. I don't comment on here much anymore, but like every other industry people are always trying to battle the bashings about their products or services. A Volkswagon cannot be built for the same cost of a Mercedes. PERIOD.... I am not going to go back and forth with you about it because I have no agenda and don't care if people think all quality is the same. There will always be people with their head in the sand playing Ostrich to reality and cannot fathom paying for quality. Non pharm is much higher than pharm cause it is not the same product! There are loads of people around here saying theirs is just as good and no one is paying them to say it they do not want to stop paying cheap prices for junk, so they do not face reality.


I don't think anybody is saying chinese is better than pharma, nor are they saying its the same. Clearly pharma is stronger and better that's common sense. Hell I've just bought myself some Norditropin that I'll be trying. BUT those doubting it completely must of had bad experiences or not gave it the patience thats needed of hgh. I can personally say the scales show I am 12-14 pounds heavier than I was before starting the hgh with the same, if not lower bodyfat, and I've been training 10 years and hit a major plateau before starting it.

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## Ronnie Rowland

> Its what ive been preaching for years
> 
> some have extremely dangerous chemicals and some have other growth releasing agents
> 
> You cant buy cheap hgh, if its cheap its shit!!!


Please listen to marcus because he's right about GH coming from China!

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## MikeyZ23

Just want to say that I came back from some other boards. I had a long discussion with my wife about HGH use. I truly advocate for safety for myself. I don't judge what people want to take, but this thread has given me A LOT to think about. I was considering some of the china stuff that's hot right now, and I'm sure you vets know the color name (being vague) for a reason, and I don't want to go ANY further with that..... Other forums have minimal information regarding safety and being smart about this stuff.

I'm glad to be back to the intelligent discussion here. I will not be jumping on the cool kid train. Maybe pharma down the road, but I'm not ready yet.

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## Sc0rch

> I have close friends who tried both pharma and GOOD chinese. Experienced very similar side effects and results, the only difference was the price tag. Clearly people here have had bad experiences with chinese hgh which is fair enough as it is commonly faked. But trust me there is good suppliers out there. You'll know who these are because they have been around for years, have 1000's of people speaking positively about them online, and PLENTY of blood results to prove it. Are you really naive enough to believe these suppliers are paying several 100 if not 1000's forum members to lie and say its good stuff when it really isn't. I wont mention the supplier I get it from but hes one of the most popular online and I've been using it for well over a year. Took me a while to see solid gains but it eventually came and completely changed my physique. 
> Just my 2 cents.


Exactly. You can get bunk pharm just like you can get bunk chinese. You can get good chinese just like you can get good pharma. I've read the blood tests from chinese as well over the years, there is no refuting you can get good chinese hgh.

I'm sure I know the website you're talking about, and yes, they're golden  :Smilie: 

i don't know what it is about this board. I haven't posted in years but it's the same people bashing ALL chinese insisting it's garbage. They cannot and never will admit there is good chinese...they have some kind of other agenda besides concern for people.

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## EasyDoesIt

Pharm grade is pharm grade and the companies that make it do not sell online. It is sold through a prescription here in the US. If it did not come from a prescription at _original origin_ then it is not pharm. So do not confuse someone selling something with a pharm grade label as being from the original manufaturer. I do not know how it is obtained outside the US. but that is the only way it is sold here. Those companies have never dropped their prices either. It also doesn't skirt out the back door of the warehouse. Inventory on a product like that has better security than a warehouse full of candy bars.

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## billy_ba

a friend of mine just picked up some chinese jintropin. The boxes look legit however the code doesn't verify on their site and the sticker does not have the fiber. 
He is however getting "results' 

You guys think it's peptides?? maybe rebranded generic

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## EasyDoesIt

> a friend of mine just picked up some chinese jintropin. The boxes look legit however the code doesn't verify on their site and the sticker does not have the fiber. 
> He is however getting "results' 
> 
> You guys think it's peptides?? maybe rebranded generic


I had auth codes and threads all lined up and it was pure junk. To me the word generic equates to junk. I guess I am still surprised colors of tops and generic is still a discussion among some, but there are always new people being introduced to it everyday. If quality was able to be reproduced cheap it would and you would not question the real from the junk. IMO REAL HGH is not going down in price. Do whatever you think billy_ba, but I would not throw hard earned money away. I question what results are considered to be? 
I think I will just say as Ronnie did, "Listen to Marcus he is right about HGH out of china

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## billy_ba

> I had auth codes and threads all lined up and it was pure junk. To me the word generic equates to junk. I guess I am still surprised colors of tops and generic is still a discussion among some, but there are always new people being introduced to it everyday. If quality was able to be reproduced cheap it would and you would not question the real from the junk. IMO REAL HGH is not going down in price. Do whatever you think billy_ba, but I would not throw hard earned money away. I question what results are considered to be? 
> I think I will just say as Ronnie did, "Listen to Marcus he is right about HGH out of china


I guess when people are new to something they don't know whats up. I've read this thread over the past couple days and got a swift reality check. You're right about there even being a conversation about top colors and generics. When they are all garbage, what's the point? 

As far as the results, my friend had a noticeable drop in BF, hypoglycemia after pinning and tiredness at the beginning of use. 4iu per day. 
Another friend on trt had been stuck at 200 lbs and was able to have a noticeable growth while on this for 6 months. Hands got bigger, claims his dick got bigger and his face and body look bigger.Got up to 220lbs and leaner. 

My friend got these directly from a gensci distributor which should be a huge red flag. How the **** are distributors even counter fitting their own shit??? And how can an actual pharmaceutical company have distributors that will sell like this. The situation tells me this whole company is a scam. 

As for some of the people on this thread...seems like the only people that would support the idea of these things being legit are the ones selling the stuff and counter-fitting. I notice some of the users who are defending whatever this stuff is are new to the forum with relatively low number of posts. Some with bad grammar (Probably Chinese) Leads me to believe they are the ones pushing it. You should know what you are putting into your body, and knowingly selling someone some unknown substance can be dangerous and is just wrong.

Does anyone on here know of any analytical labs that can test what's inside this stuff?

***EDIT

THIS POST SHOULD BE A STICKY ON THE GH FORUM

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## thisAngelBites

> I guess when people are new to something they don't know whats up. I've read this thread over the past couple days and got a swift reality check. You're right about there even being a conversation about top colors and generics. When they are all garbage, what's the point? 
> 
> As far as the results, my friend had a noticeable drop in BF, hypoglycemia after pinning and tiredness at the beginning of use. 4iu per day. 
> Another friend on trt had been stuck at 200 lbs and was able to have a noticeable growth while on this for 6 months. Hands got bigger, claims his dick got bigger and his face and body look bigger.Got up to 220lbs and leaner. 
> 
> My friend got these directly from a gensci distributor which should be a huge red flag. How the **** are distributors even counter fitting their own shit??? And how can an actual pharmaceutical company have distributors that will sell like this. The situation tells me this whole company is a scam. 
> 
> As for some of the people on this thread...seems like the only people that would support the idea of these things being legit are the ones selling the stuff and counter-fitting. I notice some of the users who are defending whatever this stuff is are new to the forum with relatively low number of posts. Some with bad grammar (Probably Chinese) Leads me to believe they are the ones pushing it. You should know what you are putting into your body, and knowingly selling someone some unknown substance can be dangerous and is just wrong.
> 
> ...


You can test the molecular weight of what is in the vial, but it still won't tell you whether the stuff was properly made and is folded properly (GH is a long peptide, or chain of amino acids and all of these molecules fold in sometimes unpredictable ways). If a peptide is folded in the wrong place, it cannot attach to receptors on cells, and it basically not bioavailable.

I suspect a lot of the chinese stuff consists of complicated mixtures of stuff to mimic the side effects of GH. Think of what the profit potential is if you were able to mix some insulin and peptides together such that people thought it was GH.

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## Malcome

As stated above sources appearing legit could be counterfeit, does that also go for forum boards? Could they be created for certain purposes by main stream pharmaceutical company's? Is that ever possible? Just wondering.

.

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## EasyDoesIt

> I guess when people are new to something they don't know whats up. I've read this thread over the past couple days and got a swift reality check. You're right about there even being a conversation about top colors and generics. When they are all garbage, what's the point? 
> 
> As far as the results, my friend had a noticeable drop in BF, hypoglycemia after pinning and tiredness at the beginning of use. 4iu per day. 
> Another friend on trt had been stuck at 200 lbs and was able to have a noticeable growth while on this for 6 months. Hands got bigger, claims his dick got bigger and his face and body look bigger.Got up to 220lbs and leaner. 
> 
> My friend got these directly from a gensci distributor which should be a huge red flag. How the **** are distributors even counter fitting their own shit??? And how can an actual pharmaceutical company have distributors that will sell like this. The situation tells me this whole company is a scam. 
> 
> As for some of the people on this thread...seems like the only people that would support the idea of these things being legit are the ones selling the stuff and counter-fitting. I notice some of the users who are defending whatever this stuff is are new to the forum with relatively low number of posts. Some with bad grammar (Probably Chinese) Leads me to believe they are the ones pushing it. You should know what you are putting into your body, and knowingly selling someone some unknown substance can be dangerous and is just wrong.
> 
> ...


I am not the expert that many here like Marcus and others, but I will speak from some of my experiences and HGH ramblings from guys I would not buy a tightly wrapped box of candy from. I had the hypoglycemia and didn’t know any better other than I thought I was having an issue, but 20 minutes after pin, I was starting to shake and sweat, then the educators here woke me up to the GHRP 6 and did not skip a beat and answered that issue with confidence. Tiredness in real yes, but nothing any over the counter product can have in it, but also could be wishful thinking after forking out money to make themselves believe they didn't get handled. The private part growing was probably from excessive pounding with his own hand. _Lol j/k,_ but I have not heard of that one and I took HGH for a fair amount of years. If that had happened to me I for sure would have noticed it. That sounds like a deal closer to a lot of guys in the gym also. Cialis helps that out and so many people tend not to tell about everything else being dumped in them. Sounds like a gym story when standing next to a female that doesn't want attention. Bone growth in the hands takes years at a reasonable dosage. But I had hand growth and put on 12 pounds pretty quick, but it was water weight and that was when I said I don't give a sh.. about how perfectly everything checks out, this is _crap!!_ I also have never been obsessed with size, so I didn't try to justify the weight gain by thinking I had real product. That is how I ended up pretty active on this thread way back for a long time. Some of these guys are on 4IUS for 6-8 weeks and the claims are strictly in their mind. Possibly was dieting and lost weight, should be able to do that without HGH especially if under 50 years old and disciplined unless there is a medical issue. I have trained people enough to know that if they are not losing weight, there is a reason and booze tends to be a big one. Also, there have been nutritional supplements that were spiked with fat burning products that were not over the counter. The word gets out how great it works then the plug is pulled before they get caught. With the counterfeit HGH the plug never has to be pulled because there is always a new salesman and a new batch of buyers thinking they got a deal. They will always have results that do not exist anywhere near the time frame needed. I know very few people that will tell a group of guys that they were just handled for a bunch of money. Also, when the seller gets confronted because a few finally put there heads together and say, "WE GOT FU...D" The same line of garbage comes out of the sellers mouth. *"It's the same source and I trust him"*. Oh yeah you can trust him because he is such an honorable guy. I have said as many here have, when you take pharmaceutical grade HGH, you truly will know the difference. Even prescription size doses to maybe slightly higher kept the body fat off and muscle density continued to get better. It’s been awhile but I would say I did small doses for probably 3 years straight. I am and was at an age, that I wasn’t loading up, but looking at long term steady benefits. If all were right I would be back on it tomorrow.
But please just because it is a great product, don’t run out and find something just to try. I am probably way older than you and I know the benefits, but in my mind if I could never obtain real, then I would live without. 

One other point that has bugged me and I don’t comment much about this anymore, is because someone jumps on here, usually new to this forum and starts stating that someone knocking Chinese and Generics has an agenda.

There can’t be an agenda, when it’s real. Most of the people that have been steady on this thread have repeated themselves more than enough times to say I give, get burnt and see you later. Only a dumba.. would hop on a forum like this and go on about this to sell something to someone they don’t know. Trust me I have had dumba.. contact me in message after a Chinese junk post like this. I think, know wonder these idiots still believe in it or just think everyone is stupid and price will sell anything and it's just not quite the quality. I really cannot even talk to someone who has been around hormones for years and really believes it's just not quite as good and you can take more because it will still be cheaper. To me that is the same mentality that want to save on pins and reuses them.

I hope that I did not ramble for nothing and you will see both sides as I think you already do. That’s the reason I went through all of this. I figured you were questioning, but the gains and big peck… may have had you thinking, well it’s cheap enough, might be worth it just for that._ LOL_

Also, when I receive the email alerts and see Marcus and this angel bites, still patiently stating the same thing over and over again, I feel like a slacker not at least giving my experience to those looking for an answer. This thread helped me and clarified what I had already suspected.
I learned as an instructor many years ago, it is easy to say screw it; I am not bothering, but takes more character and effort to make things work and fix it, (them)!

There are some very good monitors and members on this forum that are here to truly help others and I think all of us want to give back by saying thanks with our own bad experience. A bad experience could have been a much worse one.

Hope the spelling is reasonable here!
Best in 2016!

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## MOTIVATED1

Marcus, please pm me!

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## marcus300

2 points,

you don't have pm and why?

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## MOTIVATED1

lol ok cool, just had a couple questions for you but wanted to ask you via pm's. I've lurked on this site for many years, (since 2004 or so) and enjoy all the info. I too have received some bunk GH as well recently. Wish I would of read this thread a few weeks ago. Now I'm stuck with 3 kits which isn't much of a loss compared to other members, glad I didn't order more. 

So basically my question is, all mail order GH is bunk correct? I'm seeing some mixed info, slightly confused at this point. A couple guys saying all the GH online is basically bunk but later in the thread I see they're testing out a source.

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## marcus300

> lol ok cool, just had a couple questions for you but wanted to ask you via pm's. I've lurked on this site for many years, (since 2004 or so) and enjoy all the info. I too have received some bunk GH as well recently. Wish I would of read this thread a few weeks ago. Now I'm stuck with 3 kits which isn't much of a loss compared to other members, glad I didn't order more. 
> 
> So basically my question is, all mail order GH is bunk correct? I'm seeing some mixed info, slightly confused at this point. A couple guys saying all the GH online is basically bunk but later in the thread I see they're testing out a source.


If you get 50 posts you will open your pm's.

Not all hgh is bunk but generics your highly likely going to get fake cheap s1t in all honesty

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## Viking13

> If you get 50 posts you will open your pm's. Not all hgh is bunk but generics your highly likely going to get fake cheap s1t in all honesty


Listen to Marcus bro, I was about to order some generic Chinese hgh until I read this thread. Marcus knows his shit. The risk vs reward is too great IMO

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## sitries

I understand a lot of the suspicions of people on here regarding fake growth as we all know there is plenty about. Iv used kigtripin which was total garbage but other than that Ive had good results with riptropin back in the day, green top hyge back in the day and also the the Russian jins. 

More recently I have used 100iu Ansamone kits direct fron anekbio which I have found to be good, black too hyge which were cheap and surprisingly good. Currently im using 75iu lilly humatrope Pens and these are very very good. Blow all the others out of the water IMO so will be sticking to these from now on. They are basically double the price of the ansamone but even at 4iu a day the CTS is very prominent! My arms going dead just writing this. It has to be said that I so get these sides with the the other produxs but on double the dose

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## EasyDoesIt

> I understand a lot of the suspicions of people on here regarding fake growth as we all know there is plenty about. Iv used kigtripin which was total garbage but other than that Ive had good results with riptropin back in the day, green top hyge back in the day and also the the Russian jins. 
> 
> More recently I have used 100iu Ansamone kits direct fron anekbio which I have found to be good, black too hyge which were cheap and surprisingly good. Currently im using 75iu lilly humatrope Pens and these are very very good. Blow all the others out of the water IMO so will be sticking to these from now on. They are basically double the price of the ansamone but even at 4iu a day the CTS is very prominent! My arms going dead just writing this. It has to be said that I so get these sides with the the other produxs but on double the dose


Is that 75ius for "A" pen? Or 7.5? I recall the pens but I thought they were around 15, but I do not remember. I only had one or two to try. They were pricey. Also, if you read way back there were numerous methods used to create a feeling of CTS and relief of joint pain with the generics. I think some were even with pain meds. There was also a number of posts regarding the ansamone. I never had any experience with the product but Marcus and others stated it was great at one time and turned bad overnight. I believe it was the noise made here to push the performance back up on their product. But I am not 100% sure what the latest has been. You cannot mistake the real over time. Man I really miss that stuff!!! Hopefully in the near future.? One of the interesting things I have noticed using HGH in low dosages for anti-aging over a long stretch of time, is the gradual improvements that just keep coming. You notice the benefits even more after not using for a very long time. Add more years with no HGH along with a lame diet and you have a balance of regression. Well I am on a mission and with or without, I am hitting it hard this year. I don't do News Years resolutions, but I do like to set goals. Good Luck

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## Cold Blooded

How do I go about doing post injection bloodworks guys? Go to my GP? Lol

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## Cold Blooded

How do I serum test as well? Any specific kits I need to buy from anywhere? I've heard about labmax kits but they're only testing UGLs I believe, not Pharma...

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## jstone

For blodwork go to *************.com. there are some states that ylu cant get bloodwork without going tbrough a doctor, but its not many. 

If you want to do a serum test. Inject 10iu intramuscular and get the blood drawn around 3 to 3.5 hours later. I would do it fasted. 

If you want to test your igf levels just make sure you have been on a stable dose for ateast 3 weeks. This test can be done anytime. GH is taken to increase igf levels, and to me this is the best indicator of quality. 

Most chinese gh is garbage. I have only seen very few generic pas hplc testing. Even though those kits passed, they may never pass testing again.

Labmax is a kit to test steroids to see if they contain the hormone. It tells you nothing more than if the active hormone is in the vial.

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## marcus300

Members thinking of buying any kind of generic hgh no matter the colour of the top or box its in should take some time reading this thread,

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## FONZY007

> Members thinking of buying any kind of generic hgh no matter the colour of the top or box its in should take some time reading this thread,


Yea a great read. I personally have a close friend run the black tops at 10ius a day and didn't feel anything. Switched to pharma at 3ius and started to get the sides of real pharma grade hgh. 

That is the reason I stay away no matter what my supplier says about there chinese hgh.

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## marcus300

> Yea a great read. I personally have a close friend run the black tops at 10ius a day and didn't feel anything. Switched to pharma at 3ius and started to get the sides of real pharma grade hgh. 
> 
> That is the reason I stay away no matter what my supplier says about there chinese hgh.


It always makes me laugh out loud when I read posts and they go on about the colour of the tops, black, grey,yellow, red, blue orange, white lol lol I hear the latest zebra ones are red hot and well over dosed lol

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## EasyDoesIt

> It always makes me laugh out loud when I read posts and they go on about the colour of the tops, black, grey,yellow, red, blue orange, white lol lol I hear the latest zebra ones are red hot and well over dosed lol


It is amazing that top colors are still being spoken about as the quality of that junk. I think when garbage is sold the only way to distinguish it from the rest of the junk is stating a top color as if it is a brand. I'm surprised someone hasn't labeled a kit as being enhanced with cialis and special herbs that guarantee a woody.

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## Obs

I am looking to try hgh for theraputic reasons and I can't bear to order from my supplier because none of them are even rated. Every oil and tab on the site has ratings but not hgh. I take that to mean they are shit. I badly want to try it because I believe it could really help my joints. This is frustrating as hell. How the hell can I get this without dumping a grand on junk? I know we all have this problem but damn, there has got to be a US source that is legit. Anyone ever try sp labs hgh?

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## marcus300

> I am looking to try hgh for theraputic reasons and I can't bear to order from my supplier because none of them are even rated. Every oil and tab on the site has ratings but not hgh. I take that to mean they are shit. I badly want to try it because I believe it could really help my joints. This is frustrating as hell. How the hell can I get this without dumping a grand on junk? I know we all have this problem but damn, there has got to be a US source that is legit. Anyone ever try sp labs hgh?


We cant give out sources pf pharm grade hgh but trust me don't even think about buying the generic Chinese shit whats knocking around no matter how desperate you are.

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## marcus300

bump

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## TRA

I decided to try some generic since my source has been spot on with other gear dating back to remote cycles (I had a long hiatus) to present. I started at 4iu/d and maintained and was getting a bit of bloat and waking up every night for the first several months with my hands numb and tingling if my wrists were bent at all. This finally leveled off but when bumped to 6iu/d symptoms returned. After using for more than 6mos I notice some subtle changes in bf (in conjunction with diet) and some striations (mild as I am pretty endomorphic by nature) both of which I feel are slightly more than diet/lifting results. I had my labs checked a couple of times and IGF-1 was elevated into mid/high 300s, and low 100s prior.

I think I got lucky but because I have seen and read nothing but negative experiences I have worried at some point I will get bunk and question whether or not to continue even though economical. Not really interested in running bunk for months before I find out, nor even days for that matter.

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## Men in Black

What's your opinion on jintropin? I live in Hong Kong and bought Jintropin from a local Pharmacy(Had to place an order 2 days in advance online before they gave it to me)
I ran it at 4IU ED, It dissolved exactly like you with white flakes at the bottom etc etc.
I wanted to know, Does HGH really make you gain water weight in a few days? I was up 2KG within the first week and that was all water, my entire face blew up, family members were asking me why my face was swollen etc.
Skin felt kinda good, not impressive.
My question is was it real?
I ran it for 2 months max(I know i have to run it for 6 months+ but i just couldn't take it anymore, the water weight went all to my face and was just unpleasant)

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## redz

I'm guessing fake, I have a line from one of the biggest sources out there that sells jintropin so cheap it must be fake. Oddly many people swear by this source but usually the instant bloating is not a good sign as far as I know.

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## EasyDoesIt

If you read back in this thread and it's so long I can't remember where, but that water retention equals junk. I do not live in Hong Kong, but I had Jin from China and I live in US and it had all authentication codes and appeared real, but I had fake. If it were real, you would know it. Also, HGH does not work really fast and it is a product that keeps working better over time. I kept taking more only to gain more water then I scrapped it. At least you realize the water weight does not seem right. I think the strategy for the water gain is many feel thy just gained size and it's working. 


> What's your opinion on jintropin? I live in Hong Kong and bought Jintropin from a local Pharmacy(Had to place an order 2 days in advance online before they gave it to me)
> I ran it at 4IU ED, It dissolved exactly like you with white flakes at the bottom etc etc.
> I wanted to know, Does HGH really make you gain water weight in a few days? I was up 2KG within the first week and that was all water, my entire face blew up, family members were asking me why my face was swollen etc.
> Skin felt kinda good, not impressive.
> My question is was it real?
> I ran it for 2 months max(I know i have to run it for 6 months+ but i just couldn't take it anymore, the water weight went all to my face and was just unpleasant)

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## Men in Black

> I'm guessing fake, I have a line from one of the biggest sources out there that sells jintropin so cheap it must be fake. Oddly many people swear by this source but usually the instant bloating is not a good sign as far as I know.





> If you read back in this thread and it's so long I can't remember where, but that water retention equals junk. I do not live in Hong Kong, but I had Jin from China and I live in US and it had all authentication codes and appeared real, but I had fake. If it were real, you would know it. Also, HGH does not work really fast and it is a product that keeps working better over time. I kept taking more only to gain more water then I scrapped it. At least you realize the water weight does not seem right. I think the strategy for the water gain is many feel thy just gained size and it's working.


I feel like I might have been Injecting estrogen powder then if it made me gain water weight like that  :Frown:  
Was it is estrogen? What was it? I didn't get any pimples or fatter tho so what was I injecting tbh?
Btw what are your thoughts on Pfizer genotropin 
If I order it from a mate who lives overseas, will it get damaged through shipping or handling etc cuz I read hgh is extrmely delicate and can die quickly

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## EasyDoesIt

I doubt it was estrogen, but who knows what they put in it. Here in the US real Pharm HGH is obtainable through some anti-aging clinics. Also, Serostim is obtained through a script as a medical treatment for aids patients, what they do with it I don't know, but somehow it has to originate from a script. So the only way to obtain real pharm here is from those scripts. Genetropin is suppose to be great, I just find it hard that the real stuff is obtainable without first coming from a script. I doubt the pharm companies are letting it slip out the back door of the warehouse. That is my opinion on obtaining real. As stated I am in the US and that is the way it works here. 


> I feel like I might have been Injecting estrogen powder then if it made me gain water weight like that  
> Was it is estrogen? What was it? I didn't get any pimples or fatter tho so what was I injecting tbh?
> Btw what are your thoughts on Pfizer genotropin 
> If I order it from a mate who lives overseas, will it get damaged through shipping or handling etc cuz I read hgh is extrmely delicate and can die quickly

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## jimmyz2

HGH is too expensive to screw around with non rated sources, even at underground prices. I am waiting and reading for 1 year before I jump in. Right now doing fine on low test cyp weekly.. Thanks for great read/info guys.

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## nba2005uk

What's peoples opinion on Ansamone? From Nancy at Ankebio? Apologies if its been mentioned in this thread already

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## marcus300

> What's peoples opinion on Ansamone? From Nancy at Ankebio? Apologies if its been mentioned in this thread already


Not to be trusted plesse read the thread all will be revesled

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