# COMPETITIVE BODYBUILDING - POWERLIFTING - ATHLETICS & SPORTS > COLLEGIATE & PROFESSIONAL SPORTS >  HGH for Tommy John???

## Lrod47

Hey guys I just had tommy john surgery on my right elbow and I'm debating on using HGH or not. Stats :
20 yoa 255lbs 6'7" 12% bf 

If your answer is yes what kind of dosage and when??

If your answer is no a simple "Don't do it" would be fine.

Any comments or suggestions or flames accepted  :Don't know:  

 :Dancing Banana:   :Elephant:

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## Krunchtime

thats pretty risky... 
**** 6'7 you have to be a pitcher

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## Bob Balco

Hey dude. I wouldnt recommend taking HGH after TJ surg. I talked to a few surgeons and doctors about this. The initial thought I had had was that the HGH will help recovery. I was wrong. There can be complications with the healing process if HGH is admistered during the rehab process after TJ surgery. I wish I could be more scientific with this post. None of the guys in the MLB who have TJ surg use HGH to recover so that should be a sign right there.

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## KeyMastur

don't do it.

just wait out the 14 months of rehab. it can be a bitch and get very boring doing the same **** day in and day out. stem, ooh boy. ultrasound, ooh this works great too. yeah right. anyways, just wear it is the best you can do for the time being.

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## Bob Balco

I used to play baseball and suffered injuries and have had surgeries and it blows. I have never had TJ surgery. I have seen numerous guys turn TJ surgery into a huge catalyst to success. Lots of guys in the MLB have came back even STRONGER than before after TJ surg examples. There are plenty of examples of these guys but one that had TJ surg 2 years ago that just got called up to the cincy reds is rookie Brandon Claussen. The time table is from what I understand is a 2 year ceiling. The surgeon who performed your surgery is key as well. Dr James Andrews in Birmingham Alabama is the absolute best from everything you hear. 

The way to turn this rehab stint into a huge positive is to really pound your legs and torso, get your hands on the best rehab program for TJ there is and sticking too it, and the main thing is you can really use the time to perfect your mechanics. Lots of the guys in the MLB come back with superb mechanics after TJ surg. I have heard it described as learning how to throw all over again. So why not learn the right way. If I come across some good links or rehab programs regarding Tommy John I will post them in here. good luck.

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## O.T

bob is definately on to something and as keymastur pointed out "dont do it" I really would not do it myself If I was you..I have had surgery before you need the healing process to be natural. It's the best way to go..I wish you luck my friend but be patient. Being patient is very difficult. I know first hand but its a part of life. Master it and you will go far

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## AustrianOAK14

6'7 your tall gh will give you side effects that are irreversible bro

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## AustrianOAK14

i would do it but dont like acromagaley

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## Theedge

IF you do anything I would Take Anvar. It has been proven to increase collegen syntheis and strengthen tendons, unlike Winstrol that will make tendons brital and prone to tearing. My buddy just had labrum sugery and is going to take Anavar for its tendon healing properities. If you do your rehab correctly and follow the timeline, it should bring you back stronger than you were before the injury.
Edge

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## O.T

how about deca for recovering from labrum surgery? and how long into his rehab is he going to take anavar ?

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## Theedge

Again..I would seriously look into Anavar with Any Arm surgery? Strength is the main effect of it, and it has shown in studies, to strenghten Tendons and increase collegen synthesis..I'll find a study for you and post it. Also I would start taking the Anavar when you start your rehab, Throwing, Jobe's ect. Do it for 8 wks and take 30mg/day. Stay away from WINNY.

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## Theedge

Here it is:..alot of Info..But to me Var is the safest, for the effects he wants.

While injecting test increases protein syntesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man. 

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it. 

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen syn while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon. 

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon. 

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose. 

Deca , Equipoise , Anavar , and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth. 

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn. 

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited. 

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood 

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial. 

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca. 

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing. 

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are: 

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days 

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem. 

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures. 

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically. 

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.

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## O.T

well i had labrum surgery about 8 months ago, what does an ideal cycle for me look.?

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## O.T

theedge,

since i had labrum surgery about 8 months ago would u say its to late for me to gain arm strength using anavar ?

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## KeyMastur

labrum's become healed within 4 / 5 months.

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## Theedge

Not at all...Don't listen to KeyMastur. Not everybody heals within 4-5months...I have a good friend that had laburm surgery last season and was still bothered by it at the end of this season. He is getting on Anavar to help get his strenght back. .I would get on it right away...I assume you are throwing and doing your jobe's..this well help your strength, continue to throw long toss if you are there..and keep doing your Jobe's. Throwing is the most important thing to getting your arm strength back, obviously.

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## Theedge

> well i had labrum surgery about 8 months ago, what does an ideal cycle for me look.?


It depends on how much you weight..but I'm at around 177 right now..taking 30mg/day for 8wks...If you are around that weight..that should be good. Make sure you do your research on the suppliments you should be taking with it...Creatine works well with it..and there are many other things to consider..ie.liver protectants..ect. Drink lots of water and crush the protein.

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## O.T

well it took me a bit longer than 6 months, actually im 8 months right now and NOW is when i feel like im healed and fully recovered, I wouldnt mind adding some pop to my throwing speed however,,

im thinking of deca /test/anavar good stack?

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## O.T

by the way what is jobes?

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## KeyMastur

> by the way what is jobes?


jobes are pussy exercises with pussy weights that pitchers do. **** jobes.

but then again, don't listen to me. what the **** do i know

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## O.T

lol how about deca /test/anavar in season?

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## Theedge

Pussy Exercises? Is that why Rodger Clemens does them religiously? He is about the furthest thing from a pussy. You just made it clear to this whole board that you are in fact, clueless. Don't listen to this **** head. He doesn't play and probably never has played. Now.O.T Jobes are excersises that you do for your Rotator Cuff muscles in your shoulder..used for Deceleration. They are the most common problems with shoulder injuries. You need to use light weight..start with 3-5lbs no more than 8lbs. The reason you use light weight is so that you don't call on the bigger shoulder muscles to lift the weight. It would be tough to explain them in writing, there are alot of them..but basically side raises, front raises, thumbs down and raise at a 45 degree angle. Ask you trainer..they should know what they are..if not they need to find out. As for the stack. I personally wouldn't do it..first of all Deca is detectable for 12 months, and I don't want the added bloat and weight that comes with Test..Anavar is right for me..I need just a little size, but mainly strength and speed. How old are you? What level are you playing at?

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## O.T

theedge,

Im familiar with the rotator exercises, I just didnt know them by jobes..anyhow, I play at the college level with aspirations to go pro since I was drafted before. I dont have problems with testing so that is not an issue, what u still go with deca /anavar stack or test stack? Im looking for some size, speed, power

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## KeyMastur

theedge, why don't you enlighten us on who you are then ?? since you by far have the most knowledge of baseball....

if not then, what level do you play at ? who do you play for ? what position do you play ?

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## m16a2

> Pussy Exercises? Is that why Rodger Clemens does them religiously? He is about the furthest thing from a pussy. You just made it clear to this whole board that you are in fact, clueless. Don't listen to this **** head. He doesn't play and probably never has played. Now.O.T Jobes are excersises that you do for your Rotator Cuff muscles in your shoulder..used for Deceleration. They are the most common problems with shoulder injuries. You need to use light weight..start with 3-5lbs no more than 8lbs. The reason you use light weight is so that you don't call on the bigger shoulder muscles to lift the weight. It would be tough to explain them in writing, there are alot of them..but basically side raises, front raises, thumbs down and raise at a 45 degree angle. Ask you trainer..they should know what they are..if not they need to find out. As for the stack. I personally wouldn't do it..first of all Deca is detectable for 12 months, and I don't want the added bloat and weight that comes with Test..Anavar is right for me..I need just a little size, but mainly strength and speed. How old are you? What level are you playing at?



pussy excercises

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## O.T

pussy exercises?? maybe but everyone is required to do them in my squad and it's suppose to help strengthen the throwing muscles as well as keep you injury free. There is no way u can play past high school and not do them. My 2 cents

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## O.T

so what ur saying is that If I use test enth alone I will become more injury prone so I would be able to use deca for more power but using it alone gives u deca dick, would I be safe with test/deca together?

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## KeyMastur

> There is no way u can play past high school and not do them. My 2 cents


think what you want

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## O.T

well Im living it..i dont know the last time u played the game

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## KeyMastur

> well Im living it..i dont know the last time u played the game


obviously if you went to college you weren't drafted high enough to take the cash over college and start pro ball. so until you get past high A, then talk.

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## Theedge

> theedge, why don't you enlighten us on who you are then ?? since you by far have the most knowledge of baseball....
> 
> if not then, what level do you play at ? who do you play for ? what position do you play ?


Bro, Based on your smart as remarks, you are not worth the Time or Energy it would take to write my name on this post. Bro, I have been playing pro ball for 8 yrs now, The last 3 at AAA and the Big Leagues. I have played with MANY Hall of Famers and have forgot more about the game than you will every know. Before you go running your mouth, you better know who is listening and have your **** together. I was trying to help this kid out and you jump in with your opinion that has no fact behind it. Evey pitcher and probalby every position player in EVERY professional organization incorporate Jobe excersises into their daily or weekly routine.

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## m16a2

> Bro, Based on your smart ass remarks I don't have the Time or Energy it would take to write my name on this post. I have spent the past 3 yrs at the AAA level and the Big Leagues, and have played with many Hall of Famers. I was trying to help this kid out and you jumped in with your opinions that have no fact behind them. You admitted yourself that you don't play so why act like it. I have forgot more about the game that you will every know. Every pitcher and position player in EVERY organization in pro ball incorporate jobe excersises into that daily or weekly routine..I guess we are all pussy's. Making Millions.



I can vouch for the fact that your assumption is wrong. Don't underestimate the mods on this board...

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## O.T

I have friends playing A, AA they are the ones who showed me the jobe exercises, thats why im "talking"...

I appreciate any honest help.

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## Theedge

> I can vouch for the fact that your assumption is wrong. Don't underestimate the mods on this board...


What assumption did I make that is wrong? And who did I understimate and how?

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## KeyMastur

> What assumption did I make that is wrong? And who did I understimate and how?


considered it dropped.

make no more comments in this thread unless regarding the topic and hand....

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## Theedge

whatever Bro...it was your post that got everything going.....Dropped.

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