# MEMBERS EXPERIENCES > MEMBER'S CYCLE RESULTS >  Bringing it to the next level! 12 week Prop/var cycle. DONE RIGHT!

## ANIMAL

I've been planning this for months, putting together what I feel will turn my love and dedication to a whole other level!

I haven't touched any gear for over 4 years now and I couldn't be happier with my progress I've made naturally. Within those 4 years I told myself I would never touch anything until I literally did more research then the human brain could hold. 4 years+ later, I'm back with a basic, yet efficient setup that should bring my body to the next level.

I see so many logs here with people going on a CRAZY cycle with a SHIT diet and their results are well, lacking. Seems like a lot of people spend so much money on a cycle and have NO IDEA what they are doing. I've played a lot of sports when I was younger and all my coaches taught me that FORM comes before FUNCTION. You can't expect to gain any muscle by benching 315lbs going down 1 inch from grabbing the bar off the rack. I took this method with me, and I may not be able to curl 55lb. dumbbells, or bench 400lbs, but my height/weight ratio/looks puts those people to shame.

My life revolves around proper nutrition and heavy lifting. I've worked on my diet for months and months, shedding away fat like it was my job. I started at 173lbs. in January 2012, currently I weigh 155lbs. No fat burners, no supplements... just straight nutrition. I take in no extra creatine other then what is in my hemo rage. 

ANYWAY, enough of the story. I wanted to start this log to see the progress of my 12 week journey.

Currently I am taking 1,500 calories in a 45p/40c/15f split. I do plan on continuing this diet as I will increase calories seeing how my body responds to the gear.

My stats:
26
5'4
150lbs.

(thanks to GB over the months in the nutrition section for his expertise)

Starting Diet for workout days: 

Breakfast:
2 whole eggs
1 ezekial bread
2 egg whites

Snack:
3.5oz grilled chicken or 99% lean ground turkey 
dark green vegetable

Lunch:
3.5oz grilled chicken or 99% lean ground turkey
dark green vegetable

Pre-Workout:
4oz grilled chicken
290g sweet potato

Post-Workout:
1scoop protizyme peanut butter cookie protein
1cup Bob's red mill rolled oats

Post Post Workout:
3.25 grilled chicken or 99% lean ground turkey
dark green vegetable

Total: 1,500 calories/170g protein/150g carbs/25g fat

Here is an example of my carb cycle :

Workout days: 1500 calories/150g carbs/170g protein/25g fat
OFF days: 900 calories/0g carbs/170g protein/25g fat
Cardio only day: 1150 calories/80g carbs/25g fat
Re-Feed day: 2,000 calories/250g carbs/170g protein/25g fat

I stick to this diet to the T. This is on workout days. On cardio only days I drop my carbs to 80g for the day and on rest days I only take in vegetables, no carbs. I have 1 refeed day of 250g carbs where I do not workout at all.

I see diets ALL OVER this forum where people aren't eating any complex carbs post workout and they are eating simple carbs pre workout. Probably the 2 most important meals you can have. How do you expect to build muscle if you don't feed your muscles after an intense workout? The 1 hour you spend in the gym is important, but what you do with the remaining 23 is what really matters.

Revised diet starting on week 9.

3000 calorie diet ED:

Meal 1:
2 ezekial 4:9 bread
4 whole eggs
3 egg whites
Total: 515/30c/17f/47p

Meal 2:
8oz grilled chicken
125g sweet potato
Total:333/26c/2f/55p

Meal 3:
8oz grilled chicken
125g sweet poato
Total: 333/26c/2f/55p

Meal 4 (Pre-Workout):
7oz grilled chicken
400g sweet potato
Total: 553/83c/3f/54p

Meal 5 (Post-Workout):
2 scoops protizyme protein
2 cups bobs red mill oats
Total: 1030/134c/20f/76p

Meal 6:
8oz grilled chicken
3ml Extra virgin olive oil
Total:244/0c/5f/52p

Daily total: 3,008 calories/299g carbs/49g fat/339g protein

My supplements:

Hemo Rage ultra concentrated (pre-workout)
iForce Hemavol
Animal Pak
Bodytech BCAA powder
Metabolic Nutrition Protizyme Protein

*Cycle: (extended cycle to 14 weeks)*
1-12 Test Cyp 400mg/week (switched to 600mg/week on week 6)
1-12 Anavar 50mg ED

*HCG:*
9/11-9/30 500iu 2x/week
10/4- 250iu 2x/week

*AI:* (should have started this from Day 1)
4-15 Exemestane 10mg EOD
(started on 8/17 @ 12.5mg ED, 8/20 18.75mg)
Stane 12.5mg ED 9/1

*PCT:*
16-20 Nolva 40/40/20/20
16-20 Clomid 100/50/50/25

I hope that people will follow my log, ask questions and learn. If we keep what we do to ourselves how can anyone else grow and become better then they were yesterday?

Here is a picture of how I look now:

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## --->>405<<---

good luck dude! between swifto and GB u oughta be g2g!

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## BigBadWolf

Your going to be a monster!!!

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## ANIMAL

The games have begun! Not sure if I was just pumped to get this started tonight, but I probably had one of my best workouts to date. I weighed myself in at 150... thought I was 155!

I don't really lift for 1 rep max as I feel they do nothing for the body. I much rather do a weight that I struggle to get 5-6 and push myself to hit 8. I've stuck to this method for quite some time and I keep getting stronger. Do what works.

I don't plan on updating every single night, that may get redundant and no one wants to read a play by play for 12 weeks. When I see vast improvements I will update and I'll be sure to add pictures and my thoughts on the cycle/diet/training.

Thanks for the support guys!

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## wh1spa

Looks like it is going to be a good cycle bud! Looking forwards to updates as they come. Subbed!  :Smilie:

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## Razor

Subbed!

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## ChipChelios

Subbed !
Time to get jacked!

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## ANIMAL

Stepped on the same scale tonight that I did 6 days ago. That same scale that read 150, now read 161. Taking that with a grain of salt, but just looking in the mirror I've put on mass like WOAH already. I guess my body just adapts REALLY well to the gear. Going for 405 deadlift next week for at least 3 or 4 is my goal. Squats I'd like to see 5+ reps at 315 next week.

Last week was my first week and I'm ditching the prop for cyp. The pain is just not worth it to me and pinning EOD is getting annoying. So it will be Cyp 250mg 2x/week, everything else will stay the same. Also got test flu after my second PIN, that was fun! Was fine in 24 hours though.

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## Brohim

I thought you were done with gear. You just going to do better pCT this time? Good luck and plz keep log all the way past PCT.

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## ANIMAL

> I thought you were done with gear. You just going to do better pCT this time? Good luck and plz keep log all the way past PCT.


I didn't do anything correctly my first time around. I haven't touched anything in years. After doing so much research, seeing exactly where I went wrong, going back and forth with a lot of vets on this forum I feel very confident with my knowledge and guidance I received over the past 4 years.

If you know my story and followed my HCG thread you know my history... no pct, no hcg, nothing. I took myself on a roller coaster for quite some time. I know how everything works now, I'm much older and mature, I have an amazing doctor if need be and I'm at a very stable state of mind. I wouldn't have even considered any of this if I didn't feel 110%.

I've been helping others with my personal experience and I hope I have reached out to them before they get into any trouble like I did. 

I will be logging past PCT 100%.

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## Scabtree

This should really be great! looking forward to your posts of your progress

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## Brohim

Loos good man. Your diet and training seem spot on, looks like you don't need much more mass. A var only cycle would illict good results with minimal HPTA supression. But w/ HCG and solid PCT you should recover ok.

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## ANIMAL

Changed up my current cycle to accommodate the different compounds. Edited first post. Will look it as an anavar jump start since I'm already starting to see changes.

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## Trying-Hard

> Stepped on the same scale tonight that I did 6 days ago. That same scale that read 150, now read 161. Taking that with a grain of salt, but just looking in the mirror I've put on mass like WOAH already. I guess my body just adapts REALLY well to the gear. Going for 405 deadlift next week for at least 3 or 4 is my goal. Squats I'd like to see 5+ reps at 315 next week.
> 
> Last week was my first week and I'm ditching the prop for cyp. The pain is just not worth it to me and pinning EOD is getting annoying. So it will be Cyp 250mg 2x/week, everything else will stay the same. Also got test flu after my second PIN, that was fun! Was fine in 24 hours though.


So you gained the amount of weight in 6 days that I am hoping for after 12 weeks..LOL.

Keep it up.

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## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

> So you gained the amount of weight in 6 days that I am hoping for after 12 weeks..LOL.
> 
> Keep it up.


It's not the same he's coming from 150 ur already 180 with 18.5" arms. 
When I started @ 162 I got to 187 in less than 4 weeks now it's not the same I'm 180 to get to 190 it would take 12 weeks with 5000 cals

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## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

> It's not the same he's coming from 150 ur already 180 with 18.5" arms.
> When I started @ 162 I got to 187 in less than 4 weeks now it's not the same I'm 180 to get to 190 it would take 12 weeks with 5000 cals


Don't take it in a bad way u are verry lean wich will give u the chance to bulk hard and the juice will keep the fat off and ur gonna end up with really good gains hopefully 
Good like

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## Trying-Hard

Oh he won't take it the wrong way...he looks way bigger than me in his avatar..=)

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## ANIMAL

I get to 180 with ease on a bulk. It's just a lot of weight for someone who is 5'4. We shall see come February what I decide to do. But for now it's about adding 10-15 lbs. of muscle and getting rock hard with single digit BF%.

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## Deltaflaze

Should be good. Subscribed. Where'd you learn your nutrition habits?

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## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

> I get to 180 with ease on a bulk. It's just a lot of weight for someone who is 5'4. We shall see come February what I decide to do. But for now it's about adding 10-15 lbs. of muscle and getting rock hard with single digit BF%.


That is by far the best plan ever....  :Wink:

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## ANIMAL

> Should be good. Subscribed. Where'd you learn your nutrition habits?


A lot of trial and error. I've read a lot of studies on nutrition, read different peoples diets (analyzed them), different websites had a lot of info, asked a lot of questions and gained a lot of knowledge from GB in the nutrition section of this forum. Everyone is different, you just need to listen to your body.

Everyones first step is to find out WHAT a carb/protein/fat actually does for the body. 

Another part was figuring out HOW to eat. Many people think eat as much protein as possible and everything will fall into place, yet they are tired ALL the time. Well, our body receives it's energy from carbs/fats. Don't have them in your diet, I promise you your workouts will fail and you will feel lethargic. I know this because I purposely put my body in this state to see what would happen. I am not one to just read something and assume it's true. I want to know exactly how my body works and if I change something I want to know what exactly it will change and why. (obviously there are keto diets where there are no carbs)

On a cut you will be taking in more protein then carbs, but you need to utilize your carb as energy just as if you were driving a car. Here is my example for understanding what I am talking about**:

You can fill your car to full and drive 1 mile, leave your car and come back 1 day later and still have that full tank of gas, same thing goes for our bodies and carbs. Like fuel is energy for cars, carbs is energy for humans. If we consume a bunch of carbs in one meal and not do any activities that require energy, our bodies hold onto the carbs for later use. If you continue eating carbs and then eventually goto the gym for example, your body will feed off the carbs it has, but chances are you have too much and you don't utilize it all. To compensate for that, you eat carbs to the point where you will use them as energy and nothing is stored. 

Not getting into the science of the body with glycogen levels because that's a whole other ball game.

Here is an example of my carb cycle:

Workout days: 1500 calories/150g carbs/170g protein/25g fat
OFF days: 900 calories/0g carbs/170g protein/25g fat
Cardio only day: 1150 calories/80g carbs/25g fat
Re-Feed day: 2,000 calories/250g carbs/170g protein/25g fat

WHEN to eat is also important. I have 15% of my carbs for breakfast, 40% pre-workout and 45% post-workout. Doing this I utilize my carbs in 100% and never store anything extra. The reason WHY it is so important to have a complex carb after your workout is to refill your glycogen levels and bring nutrients to your muscles for recovery/build.

There is nothing in my diet that doesn't serve a purpose. The 2 hours you spend in the gym are important, but what you do with the other 23 hours will determine how serious you are about bringing your body to the next level. 

Nutrition > everything.

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## Deltaflaze

Thanks for the tips. I'm almost 25 and have been researching and working out religiously the past 4 years. I don't plan to cycle for awhile (never have) because I don't want to be naive exactly as your first post discusses. But I'm definitely following your log to learn.

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## ANIMAL

On day 2 of no starchy carbs  :0icon Pissedoff:  :AaGeweld20:  :Banghead:  Didn't lift yesterday but will tonight on no carbs. Going to drain my body of all of it's glycogen, do a carb up re-feed tomorrow, saturate my body and not lift. Saturday I plan on destroying legs. Still have a knot in my right quad from last Thursdays prop pin, I'm ready to cut my leg off. Haven't done any cardio or leg workouts since last Monday. Getting mad because squats are my favorite.

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## Trying-Hard

> Saturday I plan on destroying legs. Still have a knot in my right quad from last Thursdays prop pin, I'm ready to cut my leg off. Haven't done any cardio or leg workouts since last Monday. Getting mad because squats are my favorite.


Funny, we are in the same boat! I did my 2nd ever injection on Monday and it was in the quad, and for the past couple of days I have been gimping. Today, 3 days later, is the first time I feel that I can walk without pain, although I still feel it. Like you, I am really annoyed that I have not been able to do legs yet. I have been doing upper body for the last 3 days and I feel like such a joker, lol (and probably look like one at the gym). I also can't wait to destroy legs tomorrow or Saturday when my quad is healed up.

Today I am going to try different approach to injecting than I have been doing the last two times. This time I am going to (based on my research on how to minimize PIP) 1) heat up the syringe with warm water to thin the oil, 2) decrease the injection speed to about 60-70 secs, and 3) message injection site after injection.

I hope this takes some of the pain away as I never want to experience that quad pain ever again, lol

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## ANIMAL

Prepared food for tomorrow. 250g of carbs, I'm in heaven. Lift tonight was ROUGH to say the least on 2 days of no carbs, but got the job done.

If you are curious on how serious I am, here it is. Picture of 4 out of my 6 meals. It's all about how bad you want it. Preparation is everything!



Other meals:

Meal 1: 2 whole eggs, 2 egg whites, .25 cup rolled oats, 2 pieces ezekial bread.
Meal 2: .5 cup rolled oats, 1 scoop protizyme protein

1,950 calories/250g carbs (all complex)/170g protein/25g fat

I have been receiving a lot of PM's asking for advice on nutrition and cycles. I will respond to them all. I hope that I can further push others to get to the next level.

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## unlocked43

I really enjoyed reading this thread, I'm going to have to change up my nutrition a bit. I just started getting into lifting again, after years of "being to busy" and I'm getting pretty serious about it. Looking forward to seeing your progress as motivation!

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## kelkel

> Prepared food for tomorrow. 250g of carbs, I'm in heaven. Lift tonight was ROUGH to say the least on 2 days of no carbs, but got the job done.
> 
> If you are curious on how serious I am, here it is. Picture of 4 out of my 6 meals. It's all about how bad you want it. Preparation is everything!
> 
> 
> 
> Other meals:
> 
> Meal 1: 2 whole eggs, 2 egg whites, .25 cup rolled oats, 2 pieces ezekial bread.
> ...



Well now I'm hungry.....

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## ANIMAL

WOW! is all I have to say. 3rd week of taking var and 4 shots in on taking cyp. I have put on size like I can't believe already. I'm almost scared to see how I look/perform once the cyp kicks in!

Below is a picture I took today, depleted of glycogen after finishing up another week of my carb cycle. I am carbing up today, so I will post a picture first thing in the morning so you can see the difference. 

Before

3rd week of var, 2nd week of CYP.


Biggest thing I see so far is how much more thick I got and wide. Also started my AI today at 13mg.

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## Trying-Hard

I was told by my source to take Var in addition to the test but I decided against it and stuck with this forum protocol with test only as a first cycle. Looks like I should have done Var after all, lol!

NICE dude! You look phenomenal. Keep it up.

What are your measurements? (chest, legs, arms)

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## ANIMAL

> I was told by my source to take Var in addition to the test but I decided against it and stuck with this forum protocol with test only as a first cycle. Looks like I should have done Var after all, lol!
> 
> NICE dude! You look phenomenal. Keep it up.
> 
> What are your measurements? (chest, legs, arms)


I swear by var. The pumps you get from it, vascularity, fat loss is great! Why don't you add it to the end of your cycle, or start it now?

I didn't take any measurements before, I guess I should have. Maybe I'll take them now and then compare each week.

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## Trying-Hard

> I swear by var. The pumps you get from it, vascularity, fat loss is great! Why don't you add it to the end of your cycle, or start it now?
> 
> I didn't take any measurements before, I guess I should have. Maybe I'll take them now and then compare each week.


Hmmm...starting var now is tempting especially after all the great things I have heard about it, but I am going to stick with the test only this cycle. Next cycle I will be certain to incorporate Anavar in there and switch to a new diet plan that is aimed more towards fat loss.

Ya, take some measurements and let me/us know. Like I said, you look great!! =)

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## wellsdelta

Great job on your posts, I am about to run my first cycle once I get all my supplies in order but for now I living vicariously through you... Keep it up!!

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## Trying-Hard

Sent you a PM bro

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## BobTheBodyBuilder

In on thread. Goodluck OP!

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## wolves42

Looks awesome bro good luck! I will be following your log especially on the nutrition advice parts!

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## ANIMAL

Starting on week 3, lifts are getting unreal. Dead lifted 405 on my 6th set on Saturday, going for 335 squat x4 tonight. I've always stayed clear of bench due to a broken collar bone playing hockey a few years back and it just feels weird. I do bench 275 but it puts a lot of pressure on my shoulder so I tend to stick to dumb bells. Flat bench dumb bells I've done 125lb. for 5 on my 5th set, incline dumb bell I've done 110lb. for 6 on my 5th set. I don't lift for 1 rep max on anything. I'm not here for numbers to brag I can do this and that. 

Just to give you an idea of where my lifts are at. Keep in mind I'm only 5'4 and weigh around 160.

Diet is still on point. I am getting very hungry about 5 minutes after each meal, but I'd like to stick where I'm at to shed BF% away. I've added .5 scoop extra protein in my post workout shake as well as another .25 cup oats because I am killing myself in the gym. I use to do a carb-up day once every 1.5 weeks, now I am doing one every week. The carb cycle has been the best diet I've done thus far. It really allows you to utilize your fuel for only fuel, and when you're on empty you can really tell. You have to be 100% dedicated to the diet and not veer off of it. 

I will weigh myself tonight to see where I'm at, I wouldn't be surprised if I was at 165.

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## ANIMAL

+15lbs it is in 3 weeks coming in at 165.

I upped the Aromasin to 25mg last night. Side effects are kicking in with cloudiness in the head and tired but I have to get rid of this little pea sized lump behind nipple. I am going to take this dosage for a few days. Sensitivity has gone down, so I know it's working. Hopefully I don't have to switch to Letro, really hate that stuff. 

Lifts are fantastic. Throwing 125lb dumb bells around like they are tooth picks on flat and incline bench. I'll throw up some pictures this weekend finalizing week 3.

Had a glass of red wine on Sunday, talk about putting me on my ass! I like to drink, but I don't drink while on cycle and if I do, it's like this past Sunday with 1 glass of wine, mixed drink or 1 beer. I feel the affects of alcohol that much stronger when I haven't had it for an extended period of time and especially when taken with gear. I really do not suggest drinking alcohol on gear because we are already making our livers work, why put more stress on them if not needed? Plus it will hinder your progress in the gym. Also, alcohol makes TEST aromatize and convert to estrogen, so IF you do plan on drinking you should up your dose of your AI for that day IMO.

On no carbs today. 

Meal 1: 3 whole eggs, 2 egg whites

Meal 2-6 will be what you see below. 4oz grilled chicken, dark green vegetable and 20g avocado.


Carb re-feed tomorrow. Off from gym tonight and tomorrow.

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## ANIMAL

I posted this in another section of the forum and it got lost:

If you look at what we want HCG to do then logically you can dose it on what it actually does. Taking it from the start of a cycle , is pointless if you are using CYP/Enanthate . Prop is a different story, because it's fast acting. 

Either compound kicks in around the 3rd week. So at the beginning of week 4 you start your HCG. It WILL lose it's potency in your body if you continue it from week 4-12, that's 8 weeks on. Instead you would cycle it throughout:

3 weeks off
3 week on @ 500iu 2x/week
2 weeks off
2 weeks on @ 500iu 2x/week
2 weeks off

That would bring you to week 12. You start PCT on week 14. At this time you load on HCG to shock your testicles into producing TEST on it's own since your test levels are dropping being that you have been without CYP/Enan for 2 weeks.

Week 1 1000iu 2x
Week 2 500iu 2x
Week 3 250iu 2x
Week 4 250iu 2x

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## RaginCajun

lookin good animal! do you plan on competing?

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## ANIMAL

> lookin good animal! do you plan on competing?


I've been going back and forth with the idea, think it would be a fun experience. I'll see where I am at the end of this cycle. I have a lot of work ahead of me if I want to compete.

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## BobTheBodyBuilder

Whats your shoulder routine look like?

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## ANIMAL

> Whats your shoulder routine look like?


Rough estimates on weights. I have a lot of different shoulder exercises, it's one of my favorite muscles to hit in the gym. Here is what could be one day of shoulders for me. 

This is not printed anywhere, this is MY routine that I came up with. Everything I do is what I made up. I've never done anything from online. I listen to my body and as long as I keep growing, then I keep doing it. If I hit a plateau, I change it up and focus on another movement. The body is a blank canvas, you create lines and muscle where you want them. 


The reps are there just for a minimum I reach. I usually will pump out 2-3 more after I can't go anymore, so I guess you can say I go to fail on almost every set. 

*Military Press on Smith machine*
50lb x 15 (warm up)
90lb x 15
120lb x 12
140lb x 10
160lb x 8
90lb x fail

*Up Right Rows with easy bar*
20lb x 15
40lb x 10
60lb x 10
70lb x 8
80lb x 6
40lb x fail

*Seated dumbbell Military press*
40lb x 10
50lb x 10
60lb x 8
65lb x 6
75lb x fail

*Seated dumbbell side raises or Standing Front Raises*
10lb x fail
15lb x fail
20lb x fail
20lb x fail
25lb x fail

Last exercise 21's (3 sets)
*Standing 3/4 Bent over side raises*
25lb x 7
20lb x 7
15lb x

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## ANIMAL

I have been on the AI @ 25mg for a few days with no sign of getting rid of gyno, so I will be starting Letro this week until it's gone. 

Week 4 starts today with great results, I'm really starting to feel the unlimited amount of strength and push through all my workouts. I did a pyramid lift with squats yesterday. I ramped up to 305lbs x 3 on my 7th set which I was very happy with. Tomorrow is back day and I am not leaving until I do a clean/perfect 405 dead lift.

Was going to start HCG today but with the gyno I am going to hold off until it is gone.

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## ANIMAL

Military press 225 x 3 on 5th set last night. I had trouble getting 185 up for 1 last week. BOULDER SHOULDERS coming through! Doing that has given me all the confidence in the world to rip 405 clean on dead lift tonight. 

Sides: Start of gyno, slight aggression, zero patience, irritable and random times of being horny throughout the day just doing paper work. Must be how the pen glides across the paper.

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## ANIMAL



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## MickeyKnox

looking good bro. just wondering why you wouldnt use nolva instead of letro to attack that infant gyno symptom?

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## ANIMAL

> looking good bro. just wondering why you wouldnt use nolva instead of letro to attack that infant gyno symptom?


Because nolvadex will do nothing to reverse gyno symptons. Letro is the most powerful AI you can use and will inhibit 98%+ of estrogen using a low dose.

Everything you need to know about letro and reversing gyno: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread....#.UD7MndBWpHM

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## stpete

Keep up the good work!

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## MickeyKnox

> Because nolvadex will do nothing to reverse gyno symptons. Letro is the most powerful AI you can use and will inhibit 98%+ of estrogen using a low dose.
> 
> Everything you need to know about letro and reversing gyno: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread....#.UD7MndBWpHM


nolva does nothing to reduce gyno?? ok..good luck bro.....careful with that letro.  :Wink:

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## ANIMAL

> nolva does nothing to reduce gyno?? ok..good luck bro.....careful with that letro.


If you have light to shed on the subject, please shine away. I've read nothing that said to use nolva to reverse gyno. In the past when I had gyno symptons I did the ramp up and ramp down of letro and it worked.

I'm always open to learn something new with proof/documentation to back up the claim.

I'm already at 25mg of stane for a few days and it has done nothing to reverse the gyno.

Edit: Been reading more and it's 50/50 on which to use. It's not a serious case and of course I rather not use letro if I don't have to. Still unsure about the nolva though.

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## ANIMAL

What I gathered from my reading:

After researching some more, if gyno is just starting to occur, Nolvadex can be used to stop further estrogen from attaching itself to the receptors thus making your gyno worse... but will your body recover and fight the gyno if no more is able to get in there?

Nolvadex blocks receptors, so it prevents gyno from occurring. Receptors are like field goal posts. Estrogen gets in there which causes gyno. So is continuing estrogen fitting into the goal causing gyno or is the estrogen that got in there already causing it? Letro WILL kill the estrogen, nolva will block additional estrogen from getting in. Will my body be able to recover on its own if I just block any more estrogen from going in? Or do I need to attack and kill the estrogen?

Currently on an AI of Exemestane. Started at 12.5mg ED, gyno got worse so I upped it to 18mg and now 25mg ED. It's not getting worse, but it's also not going anywhere.

Need to start HCG as well, but won't start it with the gyno symptons because it will make it worse.

Anyone have experience with this? Please only answer if you know what you're talking about. Anyone can read something on the net and offer information.

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## Scabtree

Man you should write a cookbook/nutrition guide. Those pre-portioned meals are a great idea;

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## ichad

Fantastic log. I personally I real impressed with the time you took to plan and gain knowledge. I'm really interested in the diet as I'm trying to lose bf before I cycle. Did you ever increase your diet? Most guys seem to be really eating alot more. Your 1500 cals. Are the lowest I've seen so far. Yet you still appear to be adding LBM. I'm jealous. Lol. Great work. Hope the gyno issue resolves soon. I'm sure it will. You ever posting measurements?

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## ANIMAL

> Keep up the good work!


Thank you! I've been following your thread as well!




> Man you should write a cookbook/nutrition guide. Those pre-portioned meals are a great idea;


It's all in the preparation!




> Fantastic log. I personally I real impressed with the time you took to plan and gain knowledge. I'm really interested in the diet as I'm trying to lose bf before I cycle. Did you ever increase your diet? Most guys seem to be really eating alot more. Your 1500 cals. Are the lowest I've seen so far. Yet you still appear to be adding LBM. I'm jealous. Lol. Great work. Hope the gyno issue resolves soon. I'm sure it will. You ever posting measurements?


Don't forget, 1500 is my moderate workout days. I am currently doing a carb cycle where I re-feed my body with ~300g carbs on one day which would bump my calorie intake that day to around 2,100-2,200. All starts with your BMR to find your TDEE. You start from there adding or minus whether you want to lose BF or put on mass.

I have upped my protein intake from 170g to 190g (mostly coming in my PWO and PPWO meals) and my fats from 24g to 29g. I've kept my carbs the same at 150g on MOD days, 0g starchy carbs on off days and ~300g on re-feed days. By doing this, I utilize carbs as energy and rebuilding only, nothing is stored.

I was gaining muscle without any gear doing the above carb cycle. It would only happen faster with gear. You have to understand your body and know the changes good/bad when you do something. I did diets starting all the way up to 2,500 calories/day. Right now to lose BF and gain LBM carb cycling works best for me. What you do throughout the day also plays a role in finding what diet works for your body. I have a desk job, so I'm sitting all day.

I keep forgetting to do measurements. I will this weekend.

----------


## ANIMAL

Started 40mg of Tamox today along with 25mg of stane to get sides of gyno under control. Holding off on HCG until it goes away.

----------


## ANIMAL

Carb refeed day diet, no workout:

*Meal 1*
2 eggs
2 egg whites
.5 cup rolled oats
2 pieces ezekial bread

*Meal 2*
3 oz grilled chicken
.5 cup brown rice

*Meal 3*
3 oz grilled chicken
.5 cup brown rice

*Meal 4*
3 oz grilled chicken
200g sweet potato

*Meal 5*
3.625 oz grilled chicken
250g sweet potato

*Meal 6*
1.5 scoop Peanut Butter Cookie protizyme protein
.75 cup rolled oats

*Total: 2,100 calories/275g carbs/30g fat/185g protein*

I never add the calroies/carbs from vegetables, but they are in every meal besides breakfast and meal 6 today. Only calculate the starchy carbs.

----------


## ANIMAL

Starting tomorrow I will be upping my MODERATE workout days from 1,500 calories to 1,800 calories. This will increase all other days (Off, cardio only, re-feed) as well.

----------


## stpete

> Thank you! I've been following your thread as well!
> 
> 
> 
> It's all in the preparation!
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget, 1500 is my moderate workout days. I am currently doing a carb cycle where I re-feed my body with ~300g carbs on one day which would bump my calorie intake that day to around 2,100-2,200. All starts with your BMR to find your TDEE. You start from there adding or minus whether you want to lose BF or put on mass.
> ...


^^^^Last paragraph says it all. And if you're really good, you can stay relatively lean w/minimal cardio. And that's always been my goal. Spend as little time as possible on the treadmill! haha..

----------


## ANIMAL

Week 5 started this week and OH BOY is all I can say. Gyno is 95% gone! Thanks to mickeyknox, razor and swifto on the advice for doing the nolva and stane. 

Squatted 315 for 4 tonight, was impressed with myself. Dead lifted 405 a few days ago and, military press 225 for 4 and flat bench has gone up to 295. Been hitting calves every 2-3 days and they are really starting to grow. 

I've also upped test to 600mg/week from 400mg. Bumping my calories on lift days to 1,800 has really improved my lifts. Tomorrow I'm going to take off with no carbs and refeed on Friday with 325g carbs. 

Zero side effects besides the gyno that was my fault for waiting until week 4 to start the stane. I'm prone to getting gyno and totally disregarded it. Thankfully that's taken care of. I will be starting HCG on Monday at 500iu 2x/week for 2 weeks on and off up until PCT then I will do a load like I explained in one of my earlier posts.

----------


## MickeyKnox

right on man! glad to hear positive results!

----------


## stpete

Good to hear. Keep up the good work.

----------


## ANIMAL

Lowered the nolva to 20mg, will stay at that dose for 1 week. Lowering the stane to 12.5mg until PCT. 

Re-feed today at 325g carbs. I switch up my Saturday workouts every week as after a carb load will be my best workout. Tomorrow is shoulders/tri.

I normally have oily skin but it's starting to get really bad now. Going to start washing my face with alcohol lol

----------


## Trying-Hard

Nice bro, good to hear you got gyno taken care of. Can you quickly explain the steps you took to get rid of it? What did you take and how did you dose it?

How are the wheels? Your upper body is awesome, do the wheels look pretty good?

----------


## ANIMAL

> Nice bro, good to hear you got gyno taken care of. Can you quickly explain the steps you took to get rid of it? What did you take and how did you dose it?
> 
> How are the wheels? Your upper body is awesome, do the wheels look pretty good?


I'll take some pictures of legs this weekend for sure!

Gyno protocol:
Exemestane 25mg ED for 1 week
Nolva 40mg ED for 1 week

Dropping Nolva to 20mg ED for 1 week, then 10mg ED through PCT. 
Dropping Exemestane to 12.5mg ED until PCT

----------


## havanakid

Hey ANIMAL looking great brother.I will be following your journey as well.Im starting my first cycle soon and theres a lot to learn from guys like you that post daily updates and follow up pics.Good knowledge on nutrition as well.Its good to see someone young with a good head on their shoulders doing things correctly.Good luck and keep it up bud!!!

----------


## ANIMAL

> Hey ANIMAL looking great brother.I will be following your journey as well.Im starting my first cycle soon and theres a lot to learn from guys like you that post daily updates and follow up pics.Good knowledge on nutrition as well.Its good to see someone young with a good head on their shoulders doing things correctly.Good luck and keep it up bud!!!


Thanks man! Big reason why I'm so into doing the log is helping others because I had no one help me years ago when I wish I did.

A lot of people don't think nutrition plays that big of a role in body building, but fact is I think it's more important then time spent in the gym or money spent on gear. A lot of people say they hit a "plateau" and turn to gear to get through it and never look at their diet. Typical response is "my diet is on point, my lifting is on point... I must have hit my bodies natural max." Shake my head to those thick headed people. Always look within before you start reaching out to try gear. Because once you're off that gear, you WILL lose it all.

----------


## ANIMAL

Thinking about increasing my daily calorie intake to 2,000 on workout days. I've been stuck with 315 squat, 275 bench and 405 deadlift for 2 weeks now, I feel as though on week 6 I should be able to increase the weight. I am however doing those numbers on my last set (usually doing a total of 5-7 sets on each). Not trying to do 1 hit maxes, so that has kept me sane in regards to the numbers. 

Only sides I am experiencing is edgy and short temper. 

Started 500iu HCG last night and already feel it downstairs. I wasn't having any issues in the bedroom or lack of libido so I'm curious to see how I feel after a week of HCG.

Increasing my cycle from 12 to 14 weeks and I'm not sure if I mentioned that I've upped my Test from 400mg/week to 600mg/week.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> I feel as though on week 6 I should be able to increase the weight. .


That sounds awfuly familiar...lol. Now you see where I was coming from in my post. I am like WTF!

Here is hoping for the both of us to start seeing some substantial strength gains in the next several week... :Beer: 

I mean if I don't see it in week 7 and 8, then there is something wrong. I am getting blood work next week and I will share results.

----------


## ANIMAL

Starting tomorrow I will be bumping up my workout calories to 2,000 with a 225g protein/200g carbs/33g fat split. I started at 1,500 calories and have been increasing by 200 when I feel like I'm a little tired and stuck. Reason why I'm doing it by 200 increments is because I do not want to add any extra fat/storage to my body. I have been slacking lately with the cardio because I am so exhausted after my workouts, which is fine, but I want to start doing some more HIIT on the treadmill or stair master starting this upcoming week, which would be numero 7. 

I plan to get my calorie numbers up to around 2,900 by the time I'm done with the cycle, in which I will keep through PCT to start my bulk. Hopefully by doing this, I will keep all the muscle I have added and I won't go down in any weight in the gym. Will help with the mental aspect of being "weaker" after coming off the cycle. 

I've heard this discussion over and over as far as how long you should wait to do another cycle. Many say take the length of the cycle + pct to be off and then you can jump back on, others say you stay off for as long as the cycle was. Anyone care to chime in? I'd like to start planing my next cycle with compounds I want to use and goals I am setting. 

Knee wraps ordered this week because they were starting to hurt squatting 315 and I'd like to bust out more then 3-4 reps of 315 this upcoming week. 

I've helped so many people achieve their goals whether it be through diet advice, confidence building or at the gym training and as it is very rewarding, how do I bring myself to the next level? I'm at the point where I need someone who is more educated, focused and motivated like myself, next to me at the gym and I just don't have that. It's very frustrating to not be able to bring myself to the next level whether it be for spots or mental focus/encouragement. I feel like I have all my T's crossed and my i's dotted where they need to be. This is not a "I can't" post, because I know I can... just want MORE! Anyone else going through this?

----------


## havanakid

> Starting tomorrow I will be bumping up my workout calories to 2,000 with a 225g protein/200g carbs/33g fat split. I started at 1,500 calories and have been increasing by 200 when I feel like I'm a little tired and stuck. Reason why I'm doing it by 200 increments is because I do not want to add any extra fat/storage to my body. I have been slacking lately with the cardio because I am so exhausted after my workouts, which is fine, but I want to start doing some more HIIT on the treadmill or stair master starting this upcoming week, which would be numero 7. 
> 
> I plan to get my calorie numbers up to around 2,900 by the time I'm done with the cycle, in which I will keep through PCT to start my bulk. Hopefully by doing this, I will keep all the muscle I have added and I won't go down in any weight in the gym. Will help with the mental aspect of being "weaker" after coming off the cycle. 
> 
> I've heard this discussion over and over as far as how long you should wait to do another cycle. Many say take the length of the cycle + pct to be off and then you can jump back on, others say you stay off for as long as the cycle was. Anyone care to chime in? I'd like to start planing my next cycle with compounds I want to use and goals I am setting. 
> 
> Knee wraps ordered this week because they were starting to hurt squatting 315 and I'd like to bust out more then 3-4 reps of 315 this upcoming week. 
> 
> I've helped so many people achieve their goals whether it be through diet advice, confidence building or at the gym training and as it is very rewarding, how do I bring myself to the next level? I'm at the point where I need someone who is more educated, focused and motivated like myself, next to me at the gym and I just don't have that. It's very frustrating to not be able to bring myself to the next level whether it be for spots or mental focus/encouragement. I feel like I have all my T's crossed and my i's dotted where they need to be. This is not a "I can't" post, because I know I can... just want MORE! Anyone else going through this?


 You gotta see if theres a good buddy or family member that can at least hit the dungeon with you a couple times per week especially when doing chest,squats,etc..I just started my cycle this week and luckily my buddy from work ended his membership at his old gym and is now coming with me to Gold"s.Its extremely beneficial to have a spotter so you can feel comfortable when you got heavy weights on you.Hopefully you find a way hat helps you push it to the limit the way that you want to.I like what youre doing to the diet.I think the extra calories are gonna make you feel stronger and not as weak especially when youre trying to get thru the workout AND the cardio which is not an easy thing.Keep it up bro you'll get there.Hopefully someone will chime in about continuing your cycle and not having to wait as long cause I would also like to do a cutting cycle shortly after my bulking cycle is finished.Take care my man.

----------


## fit2bOld

I thought i was doing a good job eating and training now I'm not so sure....LOL keep it going looking awesome

----------


## ANIMAL

Let the games begin! Can't explain how great I feel. Did back tonight and I had the same energy and strength from start to finish. I did deads on my second lift and everything went up feathers. Was determined to cleanly do 405 without hesitation and I did on my 5th set. I ended my workout with wide grip lat pull downs and easily did 205 for 8 on my 5th set. 

I don't feel the HCG kicking in yet, I might be thinking about it too much as I have a lot of my mind as of late. 

I will 100% get full pictures of front, back, legs this weekend. The 2,000 calories on lift days is perfect right now. I weighed in tonight at 167.

----------


## ichad

Good to hear. Glad your feeling better.

----------


## havanakid

> Let the games begin! Can't explain how great I feel. Did back tonight and I had the same energy and strength from start to finish. I did deads on my second lift and everything went up feathers. Was determined to cleanly do 405 without hesitation and I did on my 5th set. I ended my workout with wide grip lat pull downs and easily did 205 for 8 on my 5th set. 
> 
> I don't feel the HCG kicking in yet, I might be thinking about it too much as I have a lot of my mind as of late. 
> 
> I will 100% get full pictures of front, back, legs this weekend. The 2,000 calories on lift days is perfect right now. I weighed in tonight at 167.


Sure is nice to have that start to finish energy brother IM telling you.Glad to see you got the calories dialed in and fast into your cycle.Looking forward to new pics.Keep up the hard work!!

----------


## ANIMAL

Week 8 and feeling great! Only problem is I have ZERO sex drive. That doesn't mean I can't get hard or get it up, I just have no interest what so ever. Any thoughts? I don't have any gyno, I've dropped the nolvadex to 10mg/day and the Stane to 10mg EOD. I have a lot of energy and my workouts are fantastic. Just miss being horny. Is this normal? Should I be taking viagra/cialis or anything? Once my girl and I start fooling around I'm fine, but to get into the mood is like a chore. 

I've also stopped my carb cycle and I'm taking in 2,000 calories per day on both workout and non workout days. Going to see how my body reacts to it and go from there.

----------


## ANIMAL

I think the sex drive is all in my head, although I have been lethargic and unmotivated as of this past week. I have been working a lot and I think I'm just drained. I usually like to get into bed by 11 but I haven't been able to get to sleep until after 1230 every night for the past week, waking up at 630 every morning.

Last nights leg workout was a bust. Squatted 315 for 3 with no spot. After that I just wanted to leave as I was so tired. 

I've stopped carb cycling and taking in 2,000 calories every day. I'll adjust from there. 

Here is an up to date picture of my progress:



I feel as though I haven't made much size gains in the past month, but I am tighter, less body fat, yet lifting heavier. Kind of getting a little frustrated at the moment, but I just need to snap out of it.

----------


## Trying-Hard

You look great man. You have excellent genetics and great symmetry. 

Even though your gains are more obvious from 7/31 - 8/17, I can still see a leaner physique from 8/17 - 9/27. Just keep at it and by week 14, you should be g2g.

What are you measurements cold? (arms, chest, legs, shoulders)

And when do we get to see the wheels? =)

----------


## ANIMAL

> You look great man. You have excellent genetics and great symmetry. 
> 
> Even though your gains are more obvious from 7/31 - 8/17, I can still see a leaner physique from 8/17 - 9/27. Just keep at it and by week 14, you should be g2g.
> 
> What are you measurements cold? (arms, chest, legs, shoulders)
> 
> And when do we get to see the wheels? =)


I'm almost starting to think this different bottle I got is not what it says to be. Because I started out taking 400mg Test/week and I've upped it to 600mg/week as well as increasing my calories, yet I'm not putting on weight.  :What?:  Just doesn't make sense to me. It may explain why I'm tired perhaps? 

Hard to get leg shots, I don't have a full length mirror and every time I'm with my girl I forget to tell her to take some.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> I'm almost starting to think this different bottle I got is not what it says to be. Because I started out taking 400mg Test/week and I've upped it to 600mg/week as well as increasing my calories, yet I'm not putting on weight.  Just doesn't make sense to me. It may explain why I'm tired perhaps? 
> 
> Hard to get leg shots, I don't have a full length mirror and every time I'm with my girl I forget to tell her to take some.


Blood test bro! It will tell all. But I'd wait a week or so to minimize over lap in the results from the last batch you were taking. 

As far as feeling lethargic, we are in the same boat. I also go to bed at midnight and wake up at 6:30, and I am ALWAYS tired. I think this is due to the fact that we are getting less than 7 hrs of good sleep, or it could be hormonal and that's where the blood work would come into play. It is always a good idea to get blood work done anyways to check liver enzymes, HDL, LDL, etc.

And if you decide to get blood work from Privatemdlabs.com, don't make the same mistake I made and order the wrong kind of test. PM if you need more info.

GL

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## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

> I'm almost starting to think this different bottle I got is not what it says to be. Because I started out taking 400mg Test/week and I've upped it to 600mg/week as well as increasing my calories, yet I'm not putting on weight.  Just doesn't make sense to me. It may explain why I'm tired perhaps?
> 
> Hard to get leg shots, I don't have a full length mirror and every time I'm with my girl I forget to tell her to take some.


For the diet ur having right now ur getting exactly the results expected lean steady gains in muscle while dropping bf and strength gains.

U should not be expecting to gain a lot of weight from a 2000 cal diet even if it's all pure amino acid on 1g of test ew!

Ur not taking advantage of the test ability to use macros differently when it comes to cal intake and ur still treating ur body as if ur natty but on gear 2000 cals is an extreme cutting diet IMHO

From what I see if u need to see the scale moving u should eat min 3000cal +

----------


## ANIMAL

> For the diet ur having right now ur getting exactly the results expected it lean steady gains in muscle while dropping bf and strength gains.
> 
> U should not be expecting to gain a lot of weight from a 2000 cal diet even if it's all pure amino acid.
> 
> Ur not taking advantage of the test when it comes to cal intake and ur still treating ur body as if ur still natty but on gear 2000 cals is an extreme cutting diet IMHO


You have to take in account every ones body composition and activity level.

I do plan on upping my calories, I do agree with you on there. I'm going to make a few changes and see where it takes me. 

Another scenario that I am thinking is that the gear has finally kicked in and I'm exerting myself with the low calories to the point where I am always tired. I much rather think it's something I AM doing wrong then what I am using. Always have to look within before pointing fingers.

Again, just a little frustrated, but posting this up has made me come to the realization that I need to up my calories. Thanks guys!

----------


## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

> Just because 2000 calories wouldn't do it for you, you don't know my body composition and the energy levels I exert on day to day living. You have to take in account every ones body composition and activity level.
> 
> I do plan on upping my calories, I do agree with you on there.


Don't try being defensive I know ur body composition from ur pics!!!
if u said u were amazed and happy with ur 17 lbs gain wich is a lot considering it hard with no bloat
I wouldn't have given u any advice but let me tell u what I know about u for sure
ur working out and on 600 mg T and ur not 150 any more actually ur 17lbs heavier and ur ~ or even sub 10 bf and even if u sleep all day ur not getting past this weight with this diet this is if ur goal is to gain lbw if not ur diet would be perfect so u decide on that!
Gear will get u to ur maximum genetic potential pretty easy if u do most things right and ur at that level now that's why it will get a lot harder to gain more muscle after that.
If u don't think I'm right try eating 2000 cals on ur next cycle and I bet u ur not going to see gains even close to 10lbs in the whole cycle if u start at 170 for ex.
And about increasing cals post cycle to keep gains not a good idea as ur just gonna ad bf while keeping ur muscle IMO ur diet right now would be more suitable post cycle and if ur gonna increase ur cals it better be on cycle 
As ur ability to deal with extra cals decreases dramatically post cycle


I'm jus trying to help u reach ur goal!!!
I like the way u look and I think ur smart I don't post a lot so for me to write all this u must be st special  :Wink:

----------


## ANIMAL

> Don't try being defensive I know ur body composition from ur pics!!!
> if u said u were amazed and happy with ur 17 lbs gain wich is a lot considering it hard with no bloat
> I wouldn't have given u any advice but let me tell u what I know about u for sure
> ur working out and on 600 mg T and ur not 150 any more actually ur 17lbs heavier and ur ~ or even sub 10 bf and even if u sleep all day ur not getting past this weight with this diet this is if ur goal is to gain lbw if not ur diet would be perfect so u decide on that!
> Gear will get u to ur maximum genetic potential pretty easy if u do most things right and ur at that level now that's why it will get a lot harder to gain more muscle after that.
> If u don't think I'm right try eating 2000 cals on ur next cycle and I bet u ur not going to see gains even close to 10lbs in the whole cycle if u start at 170 for ex.
> And about increasing cals post cycle to keep gains not a good idea as ur just gonna ad bf while keeping ur muscle IMO ur diet right now would be more suitable post cycle and if ur gonna increase ur cals it better be on cycle 
> As ur ability to deal with extra cals decreases dramatically post cycle
> 
> ...


That's why I edited my post, because I re-read it and it sounded defensive. 

Nutrition/diet I know, but incorporating the correct numbers during cycle and after, this is my first time doing so, so I am still learning. 

Would you suggest me upping it to 2500 and seeing where I am at? Or just jump right to 3000?

I appreciate the help sincerely.

----------


## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

> That's why I edited my post, because I re-read it and it sounded defensive.
> 
> Nutrition/diet I know, but incorporating the correct numbers during cycle and after, this is my first time doing so, so I am still learning.
> 
> Would you suggest me upping it to 2500 and seeing where I am at? Or just jump right to 3000?
> 
> I appreciate the help sincerely.


Gotcha :Smilie:  think twice before posting st...lol

Ur very lean up to 3000 (clean) imediatelly ull see a huge difference and u will feel much better eating 2000 on test is like eating 1000 natty specially after I've put on that new lbw!
All the other libido issues are due to estrogen being too high or to low in ur case I think it's too low cause for u to control the gyno u might have killed it but getting rid of the gyno is more imp so u did the right thing but ur body will stabilize soon and ull be horny as hell!!!
Happened to me mid cycle and couple of weeks later I want to bang any thing that moves.

----------


## ANIMAL

> Gotcha think twice before posting st...lol
> 
> Ur very lean up to 3000 (clean) imediatelly ull see a huge difference and u will feel much better eating 2000 on test is like eating 1000 natty specially after I've put on that new lbw!
> All the other libido issues are due to estrogen being too high or to low in ur case I think it's too low cause for u to control the gyno u might have killed it but getting rid of the gyno is more imp so u did the right thing but ur body will stabilize soon and ull be horny as hell!!!
> Happened to me mid cycle and couple of weeks later I want to bang any thing that moves.


Yes! I was thinking the exact thing with the gyno and my estrogen levels. I am going to revamp my diet to 3000 calories and I'll check back in. Thanks again!

335g protein/300g carb/50g fat

Oh boy, this should be interesting. I am currently taking in 225g protein/200g carbs/35g fat.

----------


## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

I read ur diet and it's perfect when it comes to timing and quality but I think u should up the 3oz to 7oz and all ur .5 cup portions to 1cup believe me eating that clean ull never gain significant fat and u can cut on the carbs a little post cycle to stay lean and stay with the high protein!

----------


## ANIMAL

3000 calorie diet:

Meal 1:
2 ezekial 4:9 bread
4 whole eggs
3 egg whites
Total: 515/30c/17f/47p

Meal 2:
8oz grilled chicken
125g sweet potato
Total:333/26c/2f/55p

Meal 3:
8oz grilled chicken
125g sweet poato
Total: 333/26c/2f/55p

Meal 4 (Pre-Workout):
7oz grilled chicken
400g sweet potato
Total: 553/83c/3f/54p

Meal 5 (Post-Workout):
2 scoops protizyme protein
2 cups bobs red mill oats
Total: 1030/134c/20f/76p

Meal 6:
8oz grilled chicken
3ml Extra virgin olive oil
Total:244/0c/5f/52p

Daily total: 3,008 calories/299g carbs/49g fat/339g protein

Carb sources will interchange with brown rice and protein sources will change with 99% lean ground turkey.

Every meal besides meal 4 & 5 have dark green vegetables.

----------


## ANIMAL

And I am happy with gaining 17 or so lbs. with no bloat. But now since I've done that, I just want to put on size and change up my goals since I think I reached them. I'm not competing this year, so I see no need to get lower BF %.

----------


## Brohim

> And I am happy with gaining 17 or so lbs. with no bloat. But now since I've done that, I just want to put on size and change up my goals since I think I reached them. I'm not competing this year, so I see no need to get lower BF %.


Man I think you look great right now. You are ripped up. I guess you could up your cals a little and on the test you wn't gain fat. But I think you are plenty big right now.

----------


## Brohim

Hey bro will you keep this log going through PCT and 6 weeks after when you get your bloods done? That would be fantastic if you could..

----------


## ANIMAL

> Man I think you look great right now. You are ripped up. I guess you could up your cals a little and on the test you wn't gain fat. But I think you are plenty big right now.


I'm exhausted though. I can feel it. None of my pants fit me, all too big. My waist is a size 28-30 right now. I feel drained all the time. My workouts are suffering because my body is absorbing everything so fast I have no reserves.




> Hey bro will you keep this log going through PCT and 6 weeks after when you get your bloods done? That would be fantastic if you could..


Yes, I will continue my log through PCT with diet/lifting/how I feel and 6 weeks after when I get blood work done.

----------


## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

> 3000 calorie diet:
> 
> Meal 1:
> 2 ezekial 4:9 bread
> 3 whole eggs
> 3 egg whites
> Total: 515/30c/17f/47p
> 
> Meal 2:
> ...


Wow now that's a solid diet !!!!
I love the way u put different amount of carbs diff times of day increases around workout time and eliminated before bed good job i to don't think all meals should be structured the same

----------


## havanakid

Daaaamn bro.That postworkout meal.1030 calories.I gotta get em some of that protizime protein.Honestly never head of it but I like those macros.My postworkout is about 600 calories.Of course about an hour later I do about 600 to 700 more but over 1000 in one shot thats where its at.Keep at it bud Im still watching and learning.....and cycling lol

----------


## ANIMAL

> Wow now that's a solid diet !!!!
> I love the way u put different amount of carbs diff times of day increases around workout time and eliminated before bed good job i to don't think all meals should be structured the same


I am a firm believer of putting the bulk amount of carbs around a workout. For energy and recovery/building. 

My off days will utilize the same macros but I will spread 50g carbs in each of the 6 meals.




> Daaaamn bro.That postworkout meal.1030 calories.I gotta get em some of that protizime protein.Honestly never head of it but I like those macros.My postworkout is about 600 calories.Of course about an hour later I do about 600 to 700 more but over 1000 in one shot thats where its at.Keep at it bud Im still watching and learning.....and cycling lol


I am usually starving after an intense lift. The oats really hit the spot. I use that protein because I am sensitive to gluten as it's gluten free and I'm also lactose intolerant as it is lactose free. The taste is probably the best I have ever had (chocolate cake or the peanut butter cookie are the 2 best). I add in 1 scoop of BCAA in my pre-workout shake as well as in my post workout shake. 

I'm excited to start lifting tomorrow with these new macros as I feel like I'm going to put on size relatively fast. 3000 calories MAY have been a bit extreme when thinking about it, because I want to keep fat to a minimum, but I will see how my body reacts to that many calories.

----------


## ANIMAL

Did 2500 calories yesterday on my off day. Going to do 3000 today as I'm lifting to see how I feel compared to yesterday. But man, I am ready to rock! I have too much energy, feel totally revived and ready to go. I'm shooting for a 425 dead lift today. 

I always preach how much nutrition is the key role in body building and this is just proof how much it can affect your overall performance. Just by adding 500-1000 calories my mood/mind/energy is so much better then it was just 2 days ago.

----------


## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

> Did 2500 calories yesterday on my off day. Going to do 3000 today as I'm lifting to see how I feel compared to yesterday. But man, I am ready to rock! I have too much energy, feel totally revived and ready to go. I'm shooting for a 425 dead lift today.
> 
> I always preach how much nutrition is the key role in body building and this is just proof how much it can affect your overall performance. Just by adding 500-1000 calories my mood/mind/energy is so much better then it was just 2 days ago.


How long do u have left to pct ?

----------


## tngator

this cycle is yielding some amazing results for you bud.. i've been cutting for about 10-12 wks.. going to run prop for 8 wks..

my worries have been the transition from cut to cycle and putting on too much fat (doing a comp next yr that's about 17wks from the end of my PCT)

if i continue my cut all the way to the cycle i'll probably end at about 1800 cals with light cardio 5x/wk... and i've been afraid of limiting gains by not doing a good calorie jump at the start.. but it seems as though you did no jump and it worked out fine.. do you regret starting at your cutting diet and not bumping it up immediately? IMO you should have zero regrets because your gains have been beyond amazing.. but interested to hear your take

----------


## ANIMAL

> How long do u have left to pct ?


I'm just finishing up week 8, I have 6 more weeks to go. It's crunch time. With adding 1000 calories, I can't imagine how much size I'm going to put on. My back lift tonight was insane!




> this cycle is yielding some amazing results for you bud.. i've been cutting for about 10-12 wks.. going to run prop for 8 wks..
> 
> my worries have been the transition from cut to cycle and putting on too much fat (doing a comp next yr that's about 17wks from the end of my PCT)
> 
> if i continue my cut all the way to the cycle i'll probably end at about 1800 cals with light cardio 5x/wk... and i've been afraid of limiting gains by not doing a good calorie jump at the start.. but it seems as though you did no jump and it worked out fine.. do you regret starting at your cutting diet and not bumping it up immediately? IMO you should have zero regrets because your gains have been beyond amazing.. but interested to hear your take


Well, I started off doing 1500 carb cycle. I noticed a lot of fatigue and eventually worked my way up to 2000 calories on lift days. This was around week 7-8 when my test has kicked in. I felt drained after 1 heavy exercise and exhausted all day long, even with carb up days. After talking to "mr prop" scroll up a few posts, I decided to up my calories to 3000 every day. Today was the first time I lifted doing that many calories and just WOW!! 

I do not regret the way I started off because I put on a good 15-17 lbs of pure muscle and lost BF. I am still keeping my fat intake to 15% for the day of the 3000 calories, so I may not gain as fast or as much if I was to up it to 20% but I feel as though I'm not going to put on any unwanted weight. If I feel as though I'm gaining a little bit of fat I will increase cardio at first. I can usually tell within a day or so depending on how my body feels, so I will make that adjustment. Right now I'm at 165lbs and I'd say roughly 7-8% BF. Who knows, maybe I'll dip into the high 170 range. I MUST take more pics tomorrow. The pics I have really do not do me any justice.

----------


## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

Happy to hear its working well for u 
Ur serious gains haven't even started with test e the last 6 weeks are insane and dont back of the cals its very hard to gain fat with that diet on a cycle with that low bf and ai so don't worry I'm really exited to see ur results!
And taking ur cals up as u progress is the way to go so u did the right thing cause 3000 now can make u grow further like the 2000 made u grow earlier.
Good luck

----------


## ANIMAL

Changed up my diet a little bit. The 45% pro/40% carb/15% fat was making me really bloated and sluggish taking in 3000 calories. I switched to 40/40/20 and already feel better. Carbs stayed the same at 300g, Protein down to 300g from 340g and fats from 50g to 66g. 

Switched out grilled chicken pre-workout and opted for 90% lean beef. That meal is 730 calories/83g carbs/21g fat/52g protein so I'm eager to see if it has any changes in my lifts. 

I've been getting bad PIP after each shot, it's kind of annoying. Lasts for 2-3 days and then I get to pin again.

Other then that my lifts have been awesome! I have been lifting solo and that's hindering my results a lot I feel. Last night I did chest, starting with incline dumbbells and got 100 x 8 on my 6th set. I can easily do the 125lb but to get them in starting position by myself is kind of hard. Felt like I was using other muscles in my body to get set so I didn't want to injure myself just to see. I ended up doing 6 chest exercises in total, finishing off with flat barbell bench and was able to do 255 x 8 no problem which I was impressed with, especially ending my workout with these. 

My legs are lacking compared to my upper body and I train them so hard. My quads are thick and hard and my glutes are on point, but I really don't have any definition. My calves have come a long way, but I feel like they should be a lot further developed then what they are. But that's not going to hold me back from pushing forward.

Finishing up week 9, 5 more weeks to go... kind of bitter sweet of course.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> Other then that my lifts have been awesome! I have been lifting solo and that's hindering my results a lot I feel.





> but to get them in starting position by myself is kind of hard. Felt like I was using other muscles in my body to get set so I didn't want to injure myself just to see.





> My legs are lacking compared to my upper body and I train them so hard.
> .





> Finishing up week 9, 5 more weeks to go... kind of bitter sweet of course.


Man, sounds like my long lost brother..lol

Oh, and nice new Avatar..=)

----------


## Granovich

LOOKS good bro..im gonna follow this thread

----------


## ANIMAL

Finally got around to taking a picture of my legs, which I'd like to rip off and beat myself with because I train them so hard and heavy and can't get the same results like I do with the rest of my body. Squat with perfect form for over 300, all leg presses, ham strings, 3 different exercises for calves... you name it I've tried it. I've come to the conclusion that legs just take a lot longer to develop and perhaps I never hit legs as hard as I should have and don't have a good base. But like I said earlier, that won't stop me and I'll continue to bust my ass!!



I have been feeling amazing, lifts have been outstanding. Starting to lose my defined abs from the increase of calories, but I'm putting up heavier weight in the gym, getting thicker and have energy from 7am-11pm. Lifting back tonight and going for 450lb. dead lift! Not bad for weighing only 168lbs  :Wink: 

I'm currently taking 250iu HCG 2x/week and will continue to do so up until 5 days before PCT.

----------


## ANIMAL

Was just looking through some old pictures and found a picture of me 1 year ago from the picture I last posted on here. So here it is, 1 year later:



I thought there was a big difference between when I started this cycle, but WOW. I'm going to take some more pictures over this weekend. I weighed in last night at 172lbs. and look a lot wider and thicker since my last updated picture. I've put on 20lbs in 10 weeks, but more importantly, have put on 7lbs. within the past week which is awesome just from upping my calories.

----------


## Trying-Hard

Great progress brother. You look awesome!!

Legs are thick, too. Nice job.

----------


## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

Happy to hear the cals are working their magic  :Wink:

----------


## ANIMAL

> Happy to hear the cals are working their magic


I've been on 3000 calories a little over a week and although I've put on size and have energy, I can barely move. I'm not sure if I'm taking in too much fiber and not enough water, but I can't get through my workouts because of the amount of gas build up/constipation. Is there something I can take to help break down the food so I can absorb this amount of calories? Digestive enzymes before every meal?

I'm taking in 2500 calories today just to see how I feel by tonight/tomorrow. I've calculated over 50g fiber/day. I'd like to be able to continue to eat 3000 calories, but if I can't move and get through my workout because I'm uncomfortable then what's the point?

Any suggestions?

----------


## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

> I've been on 3000 calories a little over a week and although I've put on size and have energy, I can barely move. I'm not sure if I'm taking in too much fiber and not enough water, but I can't get through my workouts because of the amount of gas build up/constipation. Is there something I can take to help break down the food so I can absorb this amount of calories? Digestive enzymes before every meal?
> 
> I'm taking in 2500 calories today just to see how I feel by tonight/tomorrow. I've calculated over 50g fiber/day. I'd like to be able to continue to eat 3000 calories, but if I can't move and get through my workout because I'm uncomfortable then what's the point?
> 
> Any suggestions?


So else can be more helpful than me  :Wink: 
I've always had trouble getting clean macros in not out...lol
Drop cals for couple of days and when u feel good blast for Another week!!!

----------


## ANIMAL

Here are a few pictures I took last night. Weight: 172lbs.

Front relaxed


Back relaxed






My back was a lot more cut during the summer, now it's more wide. I've been lifting heavy with back as I want to see what kind of mass I can put on. Not concerned so much with definition as I was during the summer.

Changing up my diet to accomodate the 3000 calories. 300g of carbs was too much for my body to take in. I was always feeling bloated, fatigued and constipated. My new split will be: 45p/35c/20f... 338g protein/260g carbs/66g fat

----------


## DanB

Well porportioned and asthetically pleasing

Great work mate, keep at it!!!!

----------


## OnTheSauce

Looking good bro. Added more mass and well balanced

----------


## Mr_Prop_var_Testen

Good job man traps got huge!
U need to taaan  :Wink:

----------


## ANIMAL

> Good job man traps got huge!
> U need to taaan


Lol. It's just the picture. Bright lighting took away from definition too.

----------


## ANIMAL

Today was the second day taking in 2500 calories, 275g carbs/250g protein/45g fat and no problems. Tomorrow I am going to up calories to 2750 and take in 300g carbs/250g protein/50g fat and see where I feel.

I have no objection taking in more carbs then protein, I guess you can say I've watched too many videos of IFBB guys and see how much protein they take in.

This is my diet that I've put together:

Meal 1:
2 pieces ezekial bread
3 whole eggs

Meal 2:
5oz 99% lean grilled chicken or 4oz 99% lean turkey
.5 cup brown rice or 165g sweet potato
dark green vegetable

Meal 3:
5oz 99% lean grilled chicken or 4oz 99% lean turkey
.5cup brown rice or 165g sweet potato
dark green vegetable

Meal 4 (Pre-Workout)
400g sweet potato
6oz 93% lean beef

Meal 5 (Post-Workout)
2 scoops protizyme protein
1.75cup Bobs red mill rolled oats

Meal 6:
5oz 99% lean grilled chicken or 4oz 99% lean turkey
dark green vegetable

Total: 2720cal/305g carb/254g protein/55g fat

I guess each day I will up carbs and see where it takes me at this point. I've read a few places that people suggest drinking .5 gallon water/100g protein. If that's true, then I 100% wasn't taking in enough water. Could explain my dehydration as well.

----------


## Brohim

Take in more water and also use Protease Enzyme Complex or other digestive enzymes to aid with digestion. 

You notice any acne/extra hair growth from your cycle?

Keep up the good work!

----------


## ANIMAL

> Take in more water and also use Protease Enzyme Complex or other digestive enzymes to aid with digestion. 
> 
> You notice any acne/extra hair growth from your cycle?
> 
> Keep up the good work!


Yes, I am taking a digestive enzyme 30 minutes before each meal. I don't notice any extra acne since being on cycle. I've always delt with an occasional break out at least twice a month ever since I was 13. I shave my chest/back so I get light razor bumps from time to time, but no crazy acne. As for the hair growth, nothing crazy. I actually didn't know that was a side effect. I guess my hair on my body IS growing faster then normal now that I think about it.

----------


## Brohim

Yes Androgen's can cause hair growth. Some drugs very Androgenic like Masteron can cause abnormal body hair. Some guy's get it more than other's.

----------


## austinite

Outstanding work, Animal. Good eatings, too!

----------


## ANIMAL

I wanted to wait a little longer before I gave an update on my thread. Last post was 1 week ago and I currently weigh 172lbs. My energy level is through the roof, actually too much to handle sometimes throughout the day especially since I just sit at a desk. I have zero sides and my strength is still sky rocketing with each lift. 

I'd really like to see myself get to 180lb. before my cycle comes to an end. I have been contemplating upping my cycle to 16 weeks being that I have zero side effects and still making progress. Currently I am going into week 12.

I have been going back and forth with my diet and I found a sweet spot at 2800 calories taking in 330g carbs/250g protein/57g fat. I do wish I could take in more and I'm still on the subject of how do I take in more calories without feeling bloated 24/7 and having really bad gas pains in my stomach.

----------


## Brohim

Wow you pretty much doubled your calories from the start. I would assume that Test helps with fat burning and also pushing carbs into the muscle and not storing any fat. Also helps with blood glucose levels. Are you still taking Var, split dose? What did you settle for HCG and AI dosing?

----------


## havanakid

> I wanted to wait a little longer before I gave an update on my thread. Last post was 1 week ago and I currently weigh 172lbs. My energy level is through the roof, actually too much to handle sometimes throughout the day especially since I just sit at a desk. I have zero sides and my strength is still sky rocketing with each lift. 
> 
> I'd really like to see myself get to 180lb. before my cycle comes to an end. I have been contemplating upping my cycle to 16 weeks being that I have zero side effects and still making progress. Currently I am going into week 12.
> 
> I have been going back and forth with my diet and I found a sweet spot at 2800 calories taking in 330g carbs/250g protein/57g fat. I do wish I could take in more and I'm still on the subject of how do I take in more calories without feeling bloated 24/7 and having really bad gas pains in my stomach.


Bro if you finally found your sweet spot as far as nutrition and there are no negative side effects then I dont see anything wrong with extending your cycle to 16 weeks.Thats just my opinion.I would jump on it.Personally I was goin to just do my test/deca cycle but after a lot of consideration being that I have absolutely no sides except for two pimples on my back and my blood pressure which I am monitoring and treating I decided to do a 6 month blast and then back to trt.You only live once and if youre feeling good,no sides then yes I say go for it.

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## Brohim

he is not on TRT and needs to recover fully after his cycle.

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## ANIMAL

Forgot to add, my blood pressure is 129/80.

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## havanakid

> he is not on TRT and needs to recover fully after his cycle.


I know.He can recover after 16 weeks then.You dont think he should extend it?

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## havanakid

> Forgot to add, my blood pressure is 129/80.


thats pretty good bro.Mine is around 135/85 more or less.So what are you thinking?You gonna add the extra 4 weeks?

----------


## ANIMAL

> thats pretty good bro.Mine is around 135/85 more or less.So what are you thinking?You gonna add the extra 4 weeks?


Going to wait for a few people that have helped me through this cycle chime in. Although I have no signs and I'm continuing to gain/grow I don't want to jeopardize my health for the future. I've put on 21lbs in 11 weeks when I was cutting for the first 8 weeks of my cycle. I've put on 5-8lbs within the past 2 weeks just on changing my diet. I'm sure some is water weight but I'm not bloated like that. I'd like to get to 175+ before stopping. Try to maintain above 170lbs until my next cycle.

----------


## havanakid

> Going to wait for a few people that have helped me through this cycle chime in. Although I have no signs and I'm continuing to gain/grow I don't want to jeopardize my health for the future. I've put on 21lbs in 11 weeks when I was cutting for the first 8 weeks of my cycle. I've put on 5-8lbs within the past 2 weeks just on changing my diet. I'm sure some is water weight but I'm not bloated like that. I'd like to get to 175+ before stopping. Try to maintain above 170lbs until my next cycle.


Sounds good.I ll be watching.

----------


## ANIMAL

Operation: Stay Puft Marshmellow Man in full effect!

----------


## ANIMAL

I've decided I'm going to end my cycle at 14 weeks, gives me until November 13th, which will be my last pin. I think my cycle has been more then successful with no side effects other then 1 week worth of nipple sensitivity. I learned a lot throughout this journey and only see good things in the future. I am nervous to see what happens when I stop and what I'll retain after I'm done, as I don't want any of this to be a waste, but that's where the mental game comes into play and I'll have to continue to work hard.

Here is how I plan on coming off HCG /Test/AI

10/28 250iu
11/1 250iu
11/4 500iu
11/8 500iu
11/11 1000iu
11/13 last pin/last anavar 
11/15 1000iu
11/18 1000iu
11/22 1000iu (last HCG)
11/26 AI (last)
11/27 Start PCT for 5 weeks. 

Like I said from the beginning I will continue to update this thread up until the end of the cycle and throughout PCT. I am already starting to plan my next cycle that will take place sometime at the end of May beginning of June. Or perhaps I will wait a little longer in the year to do a full bulking cycle, I guess only time will tell.

I would like to hear some suggestions on what my next cycle should be. I was thinking of adding Tren , but I really dislike the side effects it gives.

----------


## ANIMAL

Weighed in tonight at 177lb. Feel really good although I feel like my joints are killing me, really sore even after taking a 2 day rest, thoughts? Perhaps my body is just tired, have been going hard for a real long time.

----------


## ANIMAL

May have a pulled/strained groin? Although there is no discomfort/pain coming from anywhere. Discomfort did come after a heavy back workout now that I'm thinking about it, possibly after deadlifts.

Other then that, I feel really good. I have 3 pins left, it's kind of bitter sweet. My lifts have been going up, heavy weight that I use to think was heavy is like a feather. Heavy weight now is weight that I never thought I'd be doing. Very happy with this cycles results.

----------


## Trying-Hard

Good stuff bro! Good job on this cycle...make sure to keep up posted througout PCT and let us in on your thoughts/goals of next cycle, too.

----------


## ANIMAL

Was worried that I had a hernia, so I took 2 days off from the gym and rested on the couch, icing the area and taking advil. Woke up Sunday morning with very little discomfort, but just felt tight. I stretched and thankfully everything that I was feeling, went away. Excited to get back in the gym, I did Chest and had a really good workout, made sure I stretched for 5 minutes before even picking up a weight, which I'm going to do all the time. I stretch, but not thoroughly. 

I stopped taking the anavar on Thursday, 11/8 and already stopped the 2 the side effects I was feeling from the anavar; Heavy chest and increased body temperature.

This is week 14, and tomorrow will be my last pin of test. I upped my HCG to 1000iu yesterday and will continue at this dosage for the next 3 pins. 

I will have to do some more research to see what compounds I'll be using in my next cycle, because I'd like to take my body to the next level even more so then I have. I'm not sure if that means increase the test or add a stack of tren . Deca is out of the question as well as EQ, so really, what else is there?

My goal before spring comes is to be 185lbs, so that means roughly another 10lbs needs to be added.

----------


## Trying-Hard

Why is deca out of the question? I heard EQ is garbage.

I am in the same boat as you as far as second cycle. I would really like to try test/tren but been contemplating a 500/300 test/deca combo.

----------


## ANIMAL

> Why is deca out of the question? I heard EQ is garbage.
> 
> I am in the same boat as you as far as second cycle. I would really like to try test/tren but been contemplating a 500/300 test/deca combo.


I don't like all the sides I've been reading about Deca. And yea, EQ is garbage. If someone wants to chime in about Deca, I'm all ears. What have you read about Deca?

----------


## Trying-Hard

> I don't like all the sides I've been reading about Deca. And yea, EQ is garbage. If someone wants to chime in about Deca, I'm all ears. What have you read about Deca?


I have read the positives and the negatives about Deca . Great mass builder and great for joints, although one may experience higher water retention on it versus just test, for example. But you and I both know a lot of that contributes to diet, AI, etc. I also read a lot about this deca-dick syndrome and it seems like some people say they will never touch it again, others say they never had a problem. It almost seems like a hit or a miss, even with the people that ran 500/300 test/deca combo.

Most everyone says to run test 2 weeks longer than deca and extend PCT from the usual 4 weeks to 5-6 weeks and run Nolva @ 20mg/ED for those extra 2 weeks.

Also Deca can induce progesterone like side effects, so some people recommend a very low prami/caber dose while on.

Anyway, that is what I know about Deca so far.

----------


## Anabolick

run deca high and test at just above a trt dose



most of the horror stories you hear are from people running high test/moderate deca

----------


## Trying-Hard

> run deca high and test at just above a trt dose
> 
> 
> 
> most of the horror stories you hear are from people running high test/moderate deca


But why would a higher dose of test generate negative sides? That is seems illogical to me, but I have heard the same before.

----------


## ANIMAL

Don't people suggest the same when running Tren ? Lower dose of test... I won't take the plunge until I continue doing more research. 

TH, that's exactly what I gathered in my research. The big red flag is deca dick, as I can't be having any of that. 

On another note, yesterday was my last pin :'( But I know I have a good 2 more weeks of cranking out the weight, I am happy to take a break. Very curious to see how PCT will go and how much I am going to be able to retain. I'm so close to my goal of 180lbs, but I won't weigh in until Sunday morning.

----------


## ANIMAL

2 days after my last pin and I'm sick as a dog. Slept for about 30 minutes last night, tossing and turning. Woke up dripping sweat. OF COURSE my last pin was with a new bottle. Thinking it was because of that because I haven't got as much as a cough this whole entire cycle. I was literally on the floor in the bathroom hugging the toilet. Didn't eat anything out of the norm either.

----------


## bp2000

What caused the bloat at the end? Diet?

----------


## Trying-Hard

> 2 days after my last pin and I'm sick as a dog. Slept for about 30 minutes last night, tossing and turning. Woke up dripping sweat. OF COURSE my last pin was with a new bottle. Thinking it was because of that because I haven't got as much as a cough this whole entire cycle. I was literally on the floor in the bathroom hugging the toilet. Didn't eat anything out of the norm either.


That sucks man! But look at the bright side, you got sick when you still have an abundant amount of test in your system, not during PCT.

Hope you recover quick!

----------


## ANIMAL

> What caused the bloat at the end? Diet?


I'm sorry, not sure what you're referring to? I'm just assuming you are referring to my pictures? That was after a chest workout but I have been eating 3000 calories for a few days and then backing off because my body can't really handle that many calories, I do become bloated and feel like a marshmallow, but it goes away once I step my diet back to 2700 calories. 




> That sucks man! But look at the bright side, you got sick when you still have an abundant amount of test in your system, not during PCT.
> 
> Hope you recover quick!


I have all the symptoms of an appendicitis. Don't want to freak myself out, but it's weird that it literally came out of no where. Will be going to the DR. later today or tomorrow. Could just be fighting off an infection somewhere but who knows. Not something you want to deal with at the end of your cycle, that's for sure.

----------


## ANIMAL

The past week has been a headache, luckily I'm back to feeling great.

I'm lactose intolerant and wasn't really thinking when I had a latte from Dunkin Donuts one day and since I didn't notice any side effects from it, the next day I had one as well. That went on for about 4-5 days. By the 5th day I guess it backed something up in my intestines and couldn't break down the enzyme and caused some blockage/sharp pains in my right side. Safe to assume I won't be having any of those any more as dairy isn't in my diet at all. 

My pulled groin has healed and I was beyond excited to get back into the gym this past Sunday, of course hitting legs. My strength is still there but I am noticing my aggression isn't there as much as it use to be. For example, when in the gym I could fire myself up to knock down the next set but now it just doesn't seem like there's a flame under my ass as much. Energy is still there and I still have a great pump/lifts. 

PCT in 1 week from today.

----------


## ANIMAL

It has been a rough week to say the least. After finally recovering from the groin pull and the dairy problem I got back into the swing of things 1 week before PCT started. Had a good thanksgiving and great workout on Friday. After my workout meal I started to become really sick. My little cousin brought over a stomach virus which I caught and I was throwing up from 1230am Saturday morning to 830am every 30minutes. Once that stopped, the water came out the other end, without getting too graphic. I was on the couch all weekend, eating very little. I feel and look like I lost 10lbs, very discouraging. Why couldn't this happen at the beginning of my cycle and not where it really counts the most!? I started to feel better on Sunday so I took the day to recoup. 

Today I'll be back in the gym and I've just been trying to prepare myself mentally to get me through tonight and the next 5 weeks because I know it's not going to be easy. I know my body is in it, the hardest part will be the mind. I have a very supportive girl so I know I'll be fine.

I'm not even stepping on the scale tonight, just going to bust my ass.

----------


## zeeibi

keen on reading this! in!

----------


## ANIMAL

Intensity in the gym is still there but energy is low around the 2nd exercise. 

Started PCT tonight.

Clomid: 100/50/50/50/50
Nolvadex : 40/20/20/20/20

----------


## ANIMAL

*DAY 5 of PCT*

Head is in a fog. Just feel blah, especially in the morning. I take my PCT at night right before bed. The fog comes and goes throughout the day. I feel like I have to prepare myself for a lift for a good hour or so mentally before hitting the weights. Zero sex drive but still getting hard, just no desire.

Weight: 174 lb.

Edit: Appetite is still through the roof. I figured I would have to drop my calories down below 3000, but I've actually increased them. I have been increasing them up 100/day until I find a sweet spot. I'm starving 45minutes before each meal and I'm not putting on any excess fat.

----------


## Perseverance1

Great thread...I'm going through a similar cycle right now (60mg dbol and 14 weeks of 750mg test e). It's nice to see the kind of gains I can look forward to as long as I Stick to my macros.

----------


## ANIMAL

*Day 11 of PCT*

Mind is a fog, no motivation past first exercise or anything for that matter. Look no where near what I did so it's very frustrating after putting in all the hard work. I know it's all mental now, very hard on myself as it is. Starting to feel like "cycling" is not worth all the downs you experience when coming off and you might as well wait until you can just blast/cruise. 

Hopefully this turns around in the next couple of days, tired of feeling tired.

----------


## Trying-Hard

> *Day 11 of PCT*
> 
> Mind is a fog, no motivation past first exercise or anything for that matter. Look no where near what I did so it's very frustrating after putting in all the hard work. I know it's all mental now, very hard on myself as it is. Starting to feel like "cycling" is not worth all the downs you experience when coming off and you might as well wait until you can just blast/cruise. 
> 
> Hopefully this turns around in the next couple of days, tired of feeling tired.


The advice that I can give you is the advice I got from Mickey, and that is to keep the workouts short. My first 14 days of PCT I was working out like I was when I was 'on', and that was a mistake. I then switched it up to less volume and it seemed to help mentally and physically.

From my experience, the worst of PCT will be days 8-14. Starting week 3 is when it starts to get better. At least this is what took place with me.

PCT sucks ass, bro. You just have to fight through it and soon enough you will feel better. 

Oh, and yes, I agree with everything you said. Although I am not sure a blast/cruise is worth the long term effects though. Or is it? lol...

GL, keep us posted.

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## ANIMAL

> The advice that I can give you is the advice I got from Mickey, and that is to keep the workouts short. My first 14 days of PCT I was working out like I was when I was 'on', and that was a mistake. I then switched it up to less volume and it seemed to help mentally and physically.
> 
> From my experience, the worst of PCT will be days 8-14. Starting week 3 is when it starts to get better. At least this is what took place with me.
> 
> PCT sucks ass, bro. You just have to fight through it and soon enough you will feel better. 
> 
> Oh, and yes, I agree with everything you said. Although I am not sure a blast/cruise is worth the long term effects though. Or is it? lol...
> 
> GL, keep us posted.


Thanks bro.

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## ANIMAL

*Day 12 of PCT*

Just finished a back workout and it was the best workout I've had in a month. Finally wasn't tired but the 3-4 exercise and was still doing decent weight. Had a good solid pump throughout the entire lift. Was in and out 1 hour. 

Weighed in at 173lbs. Hopefully this is the start of feeling better.

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## MickeyKnox

> *Day 12 of PCT*
> 
> Just finished a back workout and it was the best workout I've had in a month. Finally wasn't tired but the 3-4 exercise and was still doing decent weight. Had a good solid pump throughout the entire lift. Was in and out 1 hour. 
> 
> Weighed in at 173lbs. Hopefully this is the start of feeling better.


Shave that down to 40 mins max bro. And eat above maintenance, this is very important during PCT! Your body is more sensitive to cals and seems to become catabolic easily during this time. 

Get in and out of the gym and eat a lot during PCT. This will assist in preventing muscle loss. 

You look fantastic btw. Good job!

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## ANIMAL

*DAY 15 of PCT*

Actually feel normal. My lifts have been good since cutting them back to under 1 hour. My strength seems to be up from before I started the cycle, then again I'm also 20+lbs bigger. Taking in 3300 calories and continue to up it as I'm still hungry throughout the day and not putting on any excess fat.

I do have to agree with TH that the worst of PCT is between 7-13 days. I started taking in Metabolic Nutrition C.G.P creatine and I'm not sure if it's my body readjusting to being in PCT or the creatine but my pumps are a lot better, I'm a lot fuller with no bloat and have a lot more energy/strength then I did last week. Only been taking this for 4-5 days.

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## ANIMAL

Went to doctors, have a hernia. /game over  :Frown:

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## Trying-Hard

Shit man, so sorry to hear that....

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## ANIMAL

*Day 19 of PCT*

Back to normal. Have energy right when I get up from sleeping, morning wood, libido up. Kept my weight at 174lbs which is a 24lb. gain since the start. Granted I'll lose it all now that I can't lift for a few months lol. UGH!

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## opeth71

Great log! Glad you're feeling better, but sorry about your hernia man.

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## bp2000

how ya feelin now beast? You think your cycle was worth it or no?

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## bp2000

still waiting for dat dere bloodwork

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