# STEROIDS FORUM > HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY- Low T, Anti-Aging >  Everything about Gyno Reversal

## Razor

*What is gyno?

Gyno is the growth of large mammary gland tissue in a males breast/chest area under the skin below the nipple.

Gyno is not only a physical aliment but represents a imbalance of hormones in a males body which must be corrected.

Possible gyno symptoms:
- Sensitive nipples
- Blood or discharge from nipples
- Lump right under left or right nipples or both
-All of thee above

C_Bino's thread is very good and I used it myself, thank God for him and his accomplishments, but letro is a very potent and harsh compound and wrecks you. Be sure that before doing anything to get bloodwork done. 

The way C_Bino has you run the protocol is a suicide run - you will crash your E2 and it takes a while to come out of it, and furthermore you will have to watch for high potential rebound gyno after coming off, so nolvadex is still needed. I think it is possible to reverse gyno without doing the suicide run. Nolvadex and DHT Cream is what I tested and it works.

When using any hormones, anabolics, growth, test creams, any kind of hormones, its better safe than sorry to always have nolvadex on hand at the minimum. Going forth though I would recommend having Aromasin /Prami/Nolvadex/Letro/DHT Cream on had at all times, that way the day you feel a problem you can address it immediately.

How do you reverse gyno. Well there are several ways to do it. Depends on severity, how long you have had it and so forth..up until this point I thought you have to crash your E2 to start the recovery process. Lets go over what a E2 Crash is.

During an E2 freefall crash you are taking whatever your estrogen sensitive (e2) points from its current level to less than 10 points, side effects are the following:
- No libido 
-No Erections
- No energy
- Muscle cramps, extreme muscle cramps, fatigue, headaches, body aches, joint stiffness/pain, heart pain, chest pain, shooting pain from Neck to heart and chest
- Loss of motivation, low self esteem, low self worth, fragile, improper thinking about what is going on, unusual or out of the ordinary thoughts
- Fragile nails and hair, no growth, complete shutdown of general health and overall well-being.
A complete shutdown of a normal way of life
Try to avoid this if at all possible

A possible workup and work around could be one or two of the following:

Atomini and I came up with this protocol, which is generally less harsh than C_Bino's letro run:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...o#.UEHC52ie6WU

This next option I think this option could be the best one yet, (and could be the final and best answer with the least amount of side effects) and no E2 crash involved is: Nolvadex and Andractim 5%. This actually could make you feel better, not worse.

That's why it looks so promising to me for a few reasons. The concept makes sense and it's not a suicide run like the other two. Ordering the kit it takes a full 2 weeks from the day you order to your front door. So be aware of that, comes from Europe and includes a PSA Free Testing Kit. I tried to get some from my doctor or a pharmacy to compound it... not going to happen. Just order it from dhtcream.com and save yourself the Dr. Appointment and headache of it trying to get it here.

What is DHT and whats is DHT Cream?

DHT Cream/Gel 
www.dhtcream.com
http://dihydrotestosterone.info/

Dihydrotestosterone is final conversion of Testosterone . We all have it in our blood. Many different steroids are also made of purely DHT, which help control Estrogen Related Side Effects such as Gynocomastia 
How does DHT protect against estrogen? 

There are at least three ways that this likely occurs. First of all, DHT directly inhibits estrogens activity on tissues. It either does this by acting as a competitive antagonist to the estrogen receptor or by decreasing estrogen-induced RNA transcription at a point subsequent to estrogen receptor binding.

Second of all, DHT and its metabolites have been shown to directly block the production of estrogens from androgens by inhibiting the activity of the aromatase enzyme. The studies done in breast tissue showed that DHT, androsterone, and 5alpha-androstandione are potent inhibitors of the formation of estrone from androstenedione. 5alpha-androstandione was shown to be the most potent, while androsterone was the least.

Lastly, DHT acts on the hypothalamus / pituitary to decrease the secretion of gonadotropins. By decreasing the secretion of gonadotropins you decrease the production of the raw materials for estrogen production - testosterone and androstenedione (DHT itself cannot aromatize into estrogens.

Going for the I would use this treatment as first line of defense, if it does worth try the aromasin/prami/nova..if all else fails letro. I went the other way around which was the worst thing you can and could possibly do
My Nolvadex/DHT treatment plan

Nolvadex 40/40/20/20/20/20
Andractim 5% ED 3 Months
Dosing 1.25% four times a day to ensure optimum absorption and steady blood levels, also trying to do 5% all at once you just going to waste a lot cause its too much at one time. Split it up.


My gyno was bad and didn't have the DHT cream/gel on hand and to not finding out about it until 3-4 weeks into two different treatment plans C_Binos and mine. So, I could not wait and I didn't want it to get worse and therefore I have had to run all three of these treatments. However that might not be necessary for you or anyone else. 

Gyno is tricky, stubborn and relentless. So you have to be prepared for a long uphill fight and many different options and angles to take it from, but it is beatable if caught early and the lumps do not harden. I think if you start one of these treatment plans within 2-4 weeks of first symptoms you have a reasonable 80-90% chance of beating it for good. 

I really believe and hope the Nolvadex and DHT Cream will work for you the way it worked for me. And you will avoid a E2 crash.. If i Had all the knowledge first I would run this first, but didnt find out about it until I did two suicide runs with letro and Aromasin

*Special note these treatments will only work if you catch gyno and it has no metastasized for years in your breast tissue and thus hardened in to nodules..lumps..etc....At that point surgery might be the only option. 

All research chems used were from Ar-r .com, top shelf products.
Liquid Stane
Letro
Prami
Nolvadex

DHT Cream/Gel 
www.dhtcream.com
http://dihydrotestosterone.info/
*

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## kelkel

Outstanding thread Razor! Thanks for sharing your experience. Hopefully this helps a lot of people from this point forward!

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## HRTstudent

Please I would like to stress something, a sort of caveat, that really "reversing" gyno really is only an option for young gyno - months old to maybe a year old. After that, the gyno has turned fibrous and is true breast tissue and no amount of AI or tamoxifen will dissolve or get rid of it. Will it make it temporarily look better? That's possible, as long as you are on the drug and keeping water retention low.

I have seen too many people hopelessly wreak havoc on their aromatase and emotional well being by chasing fantasies of fixing their gyno when surgery is the only hope for them.

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## MuscleInk

> Please I would like to stress something, a sort of caveat, that really "reversing" gyno really is only an option for young gyno - months old to maybe a year old. After that, the gyno has turned fibrous and is true breast tissue and no amount of AI or tamoxifen will dissolve or get rid of it. Will it make it temporarily look better? That's possible, as long as you are on the drug and keeping water retention low.
> 
> I have seen too many people hopelessly wreak havoc on their aromatase and emotional well being by chasing fantasies of fixing their gyno when surgery is the only hope for them.


^^^^ Absolutely true!

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## Razor

> Please I would like to stress something, a sort of caveat, that really "reversing" gyno really is only an option for young gyno - months old to maybe a year old. After that, the gyno has turned fibrous and is true breast tissue and no amount of AI or tamoxifen will dissolve or get rid of it. Will it make it temporarily look better? That's possible, as long as you are on the drug and keeping water retention low.
> 
> I have seen too many people hopelessly wreak havoc on their aromatase and emotional well being by chasing fantasies of fixing their gyno when surgery is the only hope for them.


Long standing gyno for years that has harden, yes you will need surgery and this is not an option for you. You can try the DHT cream, but I would never use Letro or Aromasin or Nolva to try and treat long standing gyno. This is for people that have new flare ups like I did. I wrote that in the thread..just re read it.

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## Rhino31

great read thank you

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## grilla

Razor,

I've got an odd situation occurring where my E2 is good 21 on a 3-70 scale and prolactin is in range at 11 on a 4-15 scale...bodyfat is sub 15%.

Despite that, I get gyno coming on almost immediately when I add HCG to my protocol.

What's your opinion as to whether DHT cream could help in such a situation?

Thanks.

grilla

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## Razor

> Razor,
> 
> I've got an odd situation occurring where my E2 is good 21 on a 3-70 scale and prolactin is in range at 11 on a 4-15 scale...bodyfat is sub 15%.
> 
> Despite that, I get gyno coming on almost immediately when I add HCG to my protocol.
> 
> What's your opinion as to whether DHT cream could help in such a situation?
> 
> Thanks.
> ...


Drop the hcg immediatly..what's serms or ai's do u have on hand?

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## grilla

Liquid stane and liquid tamox.

I got it in check about a month ago with the tamox and cessation of hcg . I added 250iu 2x/wk hcg back into the protocol two weeks ago, and the lumps seem to be re-emerging, itch is back...no sensitivity yet.

I'm looking for a solution that will let me keep full size testes while on TRT.

grilla

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## Razor

> Liquid stane and liquid tamox.
> 
> I got it in check about a month ago with the tamox and cessation of hcg . I added 250iu 2x/wk hcg back into the protocol two weeks ago, and the lumps seem to be re-emerging, itch is back...no sensitivity yet.
> 
> I'm looking for a solution that will let me keep full size testes while on TRT.
> 
> grilla


Look at my stane/ novadex run. Try that asap..order the dht cream today as it takes 2 full weeks to show up. Stop the hcg is not the end of the world a forced e2 crash is. Pick your battles.

Start the stane at 12.5mg ed and nolva at 40mg ed till the dht cream shows up. Hopefully you wont crash..if u do. Pull back the stane to 6mg ed or 12.5mg eod. I don't want to see u crash. But I don't want the gyno to get worse while waiting for the dht cream..lets play this close to the heart. If u need anything ask

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## bass

> Drop the hcg immediatly..what's serms or ai's do u have on hand?


he can't drop hCG because he's on TRT, he can get other nasty sides not being on hCG, so he has to work around it. nice first post BTW, but i agree with HRT, once its fibrous only surgery can remove it.

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## Razor

> he can't drop hCG because he's on TRT, he can get other nasty sides not being on hCG, so he has to work around it. nice first post BTW, but i agree with HRT, once its fibrous only surgery can remove it.


He seems he just got the Gyno though, he can stay on the hcg if he starts the aromasin ASAP. Hcg can cause a Gyno rebound in come cases, since his Gyno is new if he blocks the receptors with the nolva and eliminates the source with the aromasin, he should be fine to stay on the hcg as you guys rec.

As I mentioned in my post if you have had Gyno for years two options surgery or possibly dht cream..nolva, a E2 crash and letro will do nothing.

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## grilla

It is new; only on TRT for a few months.

Apologies for the thread hijack...just wondered whether the DHT cream might help.

I'm a bit gunshy where AIs are concerned because my E2 seems fine (20 on the 3-70 range), and I don't want to crash it. I feel great...just don't want boobs (on me...love 'em otherwise!).

grilla

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## Razor

> It is new; only on TRT for a few months.
> 
> Apologies for the thread hijack...just wondered whether the DHT cream might help.
> 
> I'm a bit gunshy where AIs are concerned because my E2 seems fine (20 on the 3-70 range), and I don't want to crash it. I feel great...just don't want boobs (on me...love 'em otherwise!).
> 
> grilla


Get on the aromasin and nolvadex and order the dht cream asap

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## HRTstudent

> Long standing gyno for years that has harden, yes you will need surgery and this is not an option for you. You can try the DHT cream, but I would never use Letro or Aromasin or Nolva to try and treat long standing gyno. This is for people that have new flare ups like I did. I wrote that in the thread..just re read it.


Yes you did, I just wanted to stress the point because it just does not seem to be well known that "true" gyno needs surgery and drug therapies are ineffective.

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## Razor

> Yes you did, I just wanted to stress the point because it just does not seem to be well known that "true" gyno needs surgery and drug therapies are ineffective.


No worries..enjoy



My Sacrifice, My Motivation
Semper Fi

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## Vettester

Nicely written, Razor. Good job and dedication with putting this together.

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## ANIMAL

Solid post! Thanks for the info and all the help.

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## Razor

Thank you both!

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## johnyz333

Great post Razer, I'm going to give this a shot.

I'm on hcg @ 1500 iu 3 times weekly. It's a fertility dosage as me and wife are trying to conceive. I have a lump that's emerged, had an ultrasound to be on the safe side; it's gyno of course.

I don't have any of the other horrible symptoms like bleeding, itching, lactating, etc. Its just a lump the size of a pea. I'm on Arimadex, 0.5mg twice weekly which seems to be controlling it. The lump has not changed size for 3 weeks now.

Nevertheless knowing its their is really bothering me. My doc is quite open to suggested treatments like this, but do you know if andractim is available in Australia? Would rather get it prescribed as ordering it overseas may see the cream get tied up in customs...

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## Razor

Adex will not get rid of it it will only control it. Get the nolvadex and the andractim i doubt andractim is available in aussie...seems nothing is legal there, just order it asap. But ask you doct I guess, but I doubt he can get it. Its a rare cream. I would also get some aromasin as well while your on the HCG as HCG can cause gyno in itself and if you have gyno, you have an imbalance in something. Time to get your e2 sensitive checked asap as well as a full male hormone panel..are you on TRT as well?

If the lump gets worse go up to .5mg 3X a week on that Adex, but honestly I would switch to aromasin if possible 25mgED and 40mg of Nolva ED, when the DHT cream shows up drop the aromasin and keep running the nolvadex.
I would get off the HCG if at all possible if your not on TRT, I think clomid can make men more fertile as well, might suggest asking him about that.
The key here is get it while its fresh and soft, you dont want it to become a hard nodule.

Gyno is a son of a bitch, I was extremely lucky to have this forum and bounce ideas off and try new things and it worked. I know together we can get rid of yours as well.

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## fstrthnu

Hey Razor, 

Thanks for the info and semper fi devil.

I have a quick problem that you may be able to help me out with. Currently taking 75mg test cyp twice weekly with 0.15mg arimidex twice weekly (0.25mg KILLED my e2). I've had a tender, soft lump below my left nipple about 1cm in size. Current e2 is 19. Looking at running tamox 40/40/20/10mg tapering per week on top of the arimidex. I know you like the DHT cream but I want to see if I can do without. What do you think about the dose and schedule?

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## kelkel

I'm not going to answer for Razor but regarding your E. if your E2 is consistent at 19 I don't see why you can't come off of the adex totally and see where you land. If it jumped up 10 pts, perfect!

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/96/1/15.full

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## Razor

> Hey Razor,
> 
> Thanks for the info and semper fi devil.
> 
> I have a quick problem that you may be able to help me out with. Currently taking 75mg test cyp twice weekly with 0.15mg arimidex twice weekly (0.25mg KILLED my e2). I've had a tender, soft lump below my left nipple about 1cm in size. Current e2 is 19. Looking at running tamox 40/40/20/10mg tapering per week on top of the arimidex. I know you like the DHT cream but I want to see if I can do without. What do you think about the dose and schedule?


Ok question why would you not want to use the dht cream when its the best answer to your problem and you don't have to crash you e2 and can stay on the nolvadex ..I don't know about you but when the best is available I always buy the best..

I would start on the novadex now and order the dht cream now. Like I said gyno is not something you want to mess around with it's stubborn and very tricky. And since its a fresh lump and still soft this is the time too pull out the big guns and defeat it..before it's too late..I stand by my belief that novadex is just not enough to reverse gyno. You need to either suicide run (which i suggest avoiding...) or do it the easier better way with the nolva/dht cream

Novadex 40/40/20/20/20
DHT cream 5% everyday for 2-3 months


Chose the higher road

And as always
Semper Fi

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## fstrthnu

kelkel,

I'm sorry, should have cleared that statement up.... the e2 of 19 was on the 0.25mg twice weekly dose of arimidex . Before arimidex it was 93. Been on the 0.15mg twice weekly dose for past 2 months and feel much better regarding libido (and ESPECIALLY my joints). Don't have a up to date lab reflecting that dose (full labs this monday). Will let you know where my e2 is next week. 

Thank you for the reference.

Also to note, I have had a mammogram and ultrasound done on the lump that was noncontributory.

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## fstrthnu

My DHT level is currently 48 (25-75) and I hate to mess with things. I'm also hesitant because of DHT's effects on prostate and hair (haha). My PSA is 0.6. To tell you the truth this is the first time I've heard of DHT to reverse gyno. If the DHT is reducing e2 production, then isn't the AI I'm taking doing the same thing (just not in the testicles)? I'm curious to see what effects/lab changes the cream would produce.... How much are they recommending to use of the DHT? Is it measured in ml's or just comes in a tube?




> Ok question why would you not want to use the dht cream when its the best answer to your problem and you don't have to crash you e2 and can stay on the nolvadex ..I don't know about you but when the best is available I always buy the best..
> 
> I would start on the novadex now and order the dht cream now. Like I said gyno is not something you want to mess around with it's stubborn and very tricky. And since its a fresh lump and still soft this is the time too pull out the big guns and defeat it..before it's too late..I stand by my belief that novadex is just not enough to reverse gyno. You need to either suicide run (which i suggest avoiding...) or do it the easier better way with the nolva/dht cream
> 
> Novadex 40/40/20/20/20
> DHT cream 5% everyday for 2-3 months
> 
> 
> Chose the higher road
> ...

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## Razor

> My DHT level is currently 48 (25-75) and I hate to mess with things. I'm also hesitant because of DHT's effects on prostate and hair (haha). My PSA is 0.6. To tell you the truth this is the first time I've heard of DHT to reverse gyno. If the DHT is reducing e2 production, then isn't the AI I'm taking doing the same thing (just not in the testicles)? I'm curious to see what effects/lab changes the cream would produce.... How much are they recommending to use of the DHT? Is it measured in ml's or just comes in a tube?


Read this resources about PSA and Prostate with DHT usage.
http://dihydrotestosterone.info/dht-...ostate-growth/
http://dihydrotestosterone.info/long...ostate-growth/

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## Razor

> My DHT level is currently 48 (25-75) and I hate to mess with things. I'm also hesitant because of DHT's effects on prostate and hair (haha). My PSA is 0.6. To tell you the truth this is the first time I've heard of DHT to reverse gyno. If the DHT is reducing e2 production, then isn't the AI I'm taking doing the same thing (just not in the testicles)? I'm curious to see what effects/lab changes the cream would produce.... How much are they recommending to use of the DHT? Is it measured in ml's or just comes in a tube?


where are we at with this?

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## Razor

Guys my second second e2 test came back this morning, 26 point..not only that but my Gyno is 100% gone. Im so happy right now. Soon I will be able to get serious in the gym again.

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## kelkel

Razor that's perfect! Exactly where mine was the last time I tested. Thrilled that this protocol worked for you and hope it helps others!

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## Razor

> Razor that's perfect! Exactly where mine was the last time I tested. Thrilled that this protocol worked for you and hope it helps others!


Dude that would be a dream come true if people could reverse there Gyno the pain free way..even though I had to endure two suicide runs before I found out the better way, I'm living proof that if you try hard enough everything will eventually come your way

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## 3Chainz

Hey Razor,

You're protocol looks awesome. Do you think I should try this even if a suicide run failed?

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## austinite

> Hey Razor,
> 
> You're protocol looks awesome. Do you think I should try this even if a suicide run failed?


Razor is a banned member, so he will not be replying. Start a new thread with the issues you are having so that we can provide assistance.

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## 3Chainz

Thank you Austinite - will do.

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## Taylorwr3x

Sorry to revive an old thread... but I found the thread and thought it was really interesting.

Firstly, I have pubertal gyno. It's really not HORRENDOUS in comparison to some I've seen, but it's gotten slightly worse thanks to poor PCT and lack of knowledge. Dumb. I know.

I'm on my 3rd cycle, running 400mg test cyp, and Epistane (20mg/30mg/40mg/40mg) 4 weeks.

I, unfortunately, started doing .5 eod of letro about a week ago when I started this cycle. I just found out about DHT cream today doing some research (i was bored).

Is it too late for me since I already started the letro? Really nervous about the 'suicide' you guys speak of. I really don't want to deal with that.

I have nolva on hand and can easily get aromasin / anastrozole... whatever you guys recommend for an AI. 

I'm also taking Cycle Assist.

Please let me know what you guys recommend? Thank you so much.

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