# FITNESS and NUTRITION FORUM > DIET AND NUTRITION >  --->>405<<--- accountability/progress log

## --->>405<<---

WT:96.6kg BF:21.87% LBM:75.5kg

Well here goes..my goal is to get below 12%bf.. im starting this log so i can document my progress and failures . im new to this site but i see that other people do it and it seems like a great idea.. i have always wanted to get to a certain level of fitness and it seems that i do well for a time but something always seems to happen where i dont fully reach what i hope is my potential.. u guys on here really know what ur talking about so my hope is that if i log my progress/failures maybe yall can help me see where i go wrong in areas that i may not be able to see.. thanx for all the help i have gotten from u all so far.. 

yesterday my diet consisted of:2345cal/278p/160c/63f (stem how does that look?) pro split into 6 meals carbs done in first 3 meals.. did 40 mins moderate cardio at 1pm.. today i plan to lift at 12noon and then do 40 mins cardio when i get home from work.. im wondering if i should go to the workout section to try to get a good workout i can do in about 45 mins (lunch is best time for me to lift) where i can get in the best fat burning mode.. if anyone on here wants to help me i would really appreciate it.. all advice will be greatly appreciated.. thx guys

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## SlimmerMe

Best of luck and this is the smartest thing you can do. Making a log will help tremendously.

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## auslifta

Goodluck. Hope you reach your goals.

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## --->>405<<---

thx aus and slimmer.. just got thru 1st wkout.. did pretty good. was a little tuff as ive been slack lately (hence 22%bf LOL) i did 4 supersets:

flat dumbell bench
leg press 
curls(barbell)
standing military press
t-bar rows

each set 15reps/12/10/8 with 90 sec between superset and no rest between sets except the time to move to next exercise.. plan to increase amt of total supersets to hopefully 6 ..went up on wt on each set and down on reps.. does anyone have advice as to whether this sounds good for fatloss?? also i forgot to do tris (bad memory) was gonna do them at the end so as not to hurt bench and mil press.. i like 1 handed pushdowns..

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## Back In Black

Cals and macro's look good. As long as your food choices were right we are off to a good start!

Your fat loss will mostly be determined by diet and cardio. IMHO your weight training should be geared around, at worst, maintaining LBM. If you have been slack recently you may be able to build a little LBM in the process. When cutting I alternate 1 week of 6-8 reps and the alternate week of 10-12 reps. This enables me to keep or increase my strength andfor me, helps me maintain most LBM. All my lifting is done within 50 minutes.

But, if you are struggling to do cardio, then a circuit training type approach may help but don't expect to get much stronger.

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## --->>405<<---

just to be kwik about it stem diet today:2345cal/278p/160c/63f

08:00 1 :Embarrassment: ne whole egg
4whites
3/4 C oats (changed wt to dry)

10:00 2: 5oz chik breast
broccoli
5oz sweet pot

LIFT (NOON)

13:00 3:PWO: 2 scoops whey
3/4 C oats

14:30 4:6oz 96/4 lean grnd beef
asparagus(tossed in evoo)

18:00 5: 2 cans tuna(no mayo)
broccoli

20:00 40 mins cardio(elliptical sustained HR 150)

21:00 6: 1 tub 2%(looking for 1%) cott cheese
2tbs nat PB

this will pretty much be my diet 7 days/week with one cheat meal/week

my cardio should come around kwik i am working alot about 80 hrs/week including travel time and lunch which mite be why it was so tuff yesterday.. sometimes im up til after midnite and back up the next day at 05:30.. ran 6:35 1 mile about a month ago which isnt bad for 213lbs / 22%bf guy i thought.. my bench goal is 405( hence the screenname) have done 315 and 275 for 5 reps.. rite now i can do 275 once but i have been doing all dumbell work cuz of shoulder.. do u think the circuit training i posted will be a good start 3 days/ week or is that too much on each body part? im mostly focused rite now on losing fat .. thx for ur help man it means alot..

PS: i plan to bump up cardio to 60 mins 6 days/week over the next month

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## Back In Black

Diet looks good. 

60 mins of cardio 6 days a week plus 3 lifting sessions plus 80hr work weeks is a lot. You will just need to work out a life balance. Don't want to be burnt out and the first thing that gives is the diet because you have no time to be planned.

If you lift for 3 days and want to superset, how about

Workout 1 - Quads & Delts

Workout 2 - Chest, abs and arms

Workout 3 - Hams and back

As i said, you'll struggle to get stronger doing that type of training and I do favour a fairly standard muscle building approach when cutting. But you will need to work out what works best for you. Mix it up, try a few different things and you'll know.

Congrats on starting the change..............

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## --->>405<<---

thx man.. fortunately i have an awesome wife who gets up 1 hr b4 me everyday and makes all my food !! so all i have to do there is pick up my big bag and take it with me.. been on this work schedule 2 yrs.. should be able to slow down by march.. will try ur approach from above starting monday..til then i wil just do 1 more circuit like i did today.. i guess with the way u suggested ill be able to do more exercises per bodypart .. should i fluctuate 8 reps 1 week and 10-12 the next with this workout? that way ill have heavier days? if im doing the same amt reps(8) or (10-12 respectively) i wont be adding alot of weight as each superset progresses ?? just staying the same?or close to it? thats ok?

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## Back In Black

I alternate because it's a tried and tested formula for me. Yes, it means you have heavier days. On my 6-8 rep workout sometimes I only hit 5 reps, but that's ok. And whether it's a heavy or light week I ALWAYS try and up the weight or do more reps from the previous like for like workout. Do reps that suit you, if you prefer 4-6 one week and 8-10 the alternate week then for for it.

And well done Mrs 405!!!!!!

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## SlimmerMe

Lucky duck having such a supportive wife!

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## --->>405<<---

ur rite slim i am lucky.. shes been doing that every day for 6 yrs  :Smilie:  i think she may have missed maybe 2 days in 6 yrs.. she even cranks my truck in the winter time and turns the heat on for me! well last nite i got my 40 mins cardio dun but it was again tuff.. i guess cuz the cardio i have been doing for the last 3 or 4 months has been running as fast a 1 mile as i can followed by about 20 mins sprints.. my wife measured my bf this past sunday (9/25) so i guess ill have it taken every other sunday and put the results up on here.. so the next bf measurement will be on 10/9.. i am also considering putting pic up even though its gonna be a bad one.. today will be a cardio only day..

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## Back In Black

> well last nite i got my 40 mins cardio dun but it was again tuff.. i guess cuz the cardio i have been doing for the last 3 or 4 months has been running as fast a 1 mile as i can followed by about 20 mins sprints.


What type of cardio did you do?

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## --->>405<<---

Elliptical machine.. I have one in my man cave.. Because of my wk sched its hard 2 get any other type cardio in on lift days.. Where i live (in the country) theres only 1 rd by my house and people do 100km/hr(figd id help u out there stem) and its dark so i dont want to get killed trying to lose wt so i just use my elliptical.. Does it matter as long as i maintAin good hr?? Usually 150-160 beats / minute.. Its pretty tiring on me at least rite now.. It has difft levels of resistance..

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## Back In Black

Ha ha, our road system is in mph. Most treadmills are in kmh and most our measurements are in grammes but I can do oz's and lb's just not cups!!

Elipticals are my 2nd fave cardio for fitness. But favourite for low impact and, tbh, will serve you just as well for fat loss. Though you stick to the same principles. Moderate cardio is ok but you should try to incorporate interval training where possible. Warm up for 5 minutes then increase resistance and go as fat as you can for 30-60 seconds. Turn resistance down for 60 secs at moderate pace for 60 secs, then repeat intervals for up to 20 mins. Cool down for 5 and you'll be done in 30 mins. Helpful if short of time. It should be real tough so you may want to alternate intervals one day and moderate the next at the HR you stated.

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## SlimmerMe

And if you can? getting in a fasted low intensity cardio for just about 25 minutes and then another cardio later in the day? you would really see the BF melt off....

Somewhere around here Phate has something written about a study where doing 2 cardios a day in shorter amounts of time will really help cut the BF. I will try to find it ( sometime, not asap but a bit later hopefully)

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## --->>405<<---

Ok cool thx.. Yeh i have done that before but i wSnt sure if it was a good method or not actually what i did was 5 min warmup then 30 secs at higher resistNce (5 or 6) then bak down to (4) for 90 secs and repeat 9 more times.. Every week or 2 i plannedto add 1 more interval .. And also 5 min cooldown so im glad to see i was on to something there.. Thats weird u r on mph and metric simultaneously  :Smilie:  BTW my mother is from Sussex.. I was born and raised here in the US..

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## --->>405<<---

Hey thx slim.. Yeh ivedone 1 fasted ( monday) and planned on doing more.. Its just tuff getn up so early cuz i have a hard time making myself go to be by like 21:00.. I usually have to be at wk by 07:00 so i have to get up at 04:30ish... Ugh  :Smilie:  but i plan to try and do it where i can .. I would appreciate the cardio thing by phate when u gt the time.. I usually do fairly well to about 16 % bf.. Ive never been much lower.. I usually hit a brick wall and cant fig out how to get thru it.. Im hoping u guys will be able to help me then  :Smilie:

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## SlimmerMe

While i look for that study ( if it exist other than Phate saying there was one and we might have to find Phate to find the study) all I can tell you is this: when I started my challenge I was religious about fasted cardio and I merely went out the door first thing before coffee. This time of year is great to do this before it gets cold. And I only walked briskly for about 25 minutes. And then came back in and made my protein shake. And then later in the day more often than not, got in another cardio for about 30 minutes. And I know this is how I was able to meet my 90 day challenge. I know it in my heart ( along with EATING better.....of course!) but the cardio is the trick here. It really is. Especially in the very beginning stage to ramp up your metabolism plus you will start seeing results faster which will inspire you to keep going at this new life.

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## --->>405<<---

Yeh i guess i dont havr to do 40 mins fasted.. Huh?? What was ur 90 day challenge slim if u dont mind my asking?

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## SlimmerMe

> Yeh i guess i dont havr to do 40 mins fasted.. Huh?? What was ur 90 day challenge slim if u dont mind my asking?


Challenged myself to lose 20 pounds in 90 days and here is my thread. You might enjoy seeing what all I had to go thru especially starting out. I was not ready at the gate but wanted to start since starting is the most important thing. Hope you enjoy reading this. it might give you some tips.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...*#.ToSUQhw0i6Y

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## --->>405<<---

Hey stem:
1 cup= 8fluid oz
2 cup= 1 pint (16fl oz)
4 cup= 32fl oz (1quart)
4 Qt = 1 gallon(128 fl oz)
Our quart is like ur liter except i think ur liter is 33.8fl oz

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## --->>405<<---

Thx slim look 4 ward 2 reading ur thread

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## Back In Black

> Hey stem:
> 1 cup= 8fluid oz
> 2 cup= 1 pint (16fl oz)
> 4 cup= 32fl oz (1quart)
> 4 Qt = 1 gallon(128 fl oz)
> Our quart is like ur liter except i think ur liter is 33.8fl oz


Well, that would help but US fl oz are different to UK fl oz. There are 20 in a pint over here. A pint being 568ml. Hey ho, crazy mixed up world.

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## --->>405<<---

Just got dun w/cardio.. Did 5min warm up/20 min HIIT/10min moderate/5min cooldown.. Feel good bout myself cuz i was just gonna do the 5/20/5 like u said i could stem but figd id push myself.. I said i was gonna do 40 mins so i haveto do 40 mins.. I have a q.. I didnt lift today so i was confusEd bout my PWO.. Should i have skippd it and dun it aftr cardio? Or skippd it altogether?? I just ate/drank it at usual time (13:00) and now after cardio am gonna eat meal 4 which is ppwo usually..

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## Back In Black

If it's in your macro's for the day, have it. I always account for it after my cardio. And well done on the extra cardio. Every little helps!

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## SlimmerMe

Sounding better and better....

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## --->>405<<---

ok so heres my first photo.. at 22%bf ill put a new one up on 10/29... hopefully ill see a change.. im dedicated as ive ever been .. feel good about diet so far.. macros for today total: 2297cal/269p/157c/60f

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## SlimmerMe

KUDOS TO YOU! And being dedicated will change your life. You are in the right place here and will continue to follow your progress~

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## --->>405<<---

thx slim

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## --->>405<<---

well its day 5! i tell u starting back is not alot of fun cuz u put forth what seems like the most effort (outta shape) and it takes like a month or so to start seeing any results .. didnt have access to microwave this morning so i just had to eat my frozen broccoli-frozen LOL.. hey at least i have managed to get back into "food for means-to-an-end-mode" vs food cuz it tastes good mode :Smilie:  i tell u one thing that cheat meal on sunday is gonna be good!! which leads me to a question.. do yall think 15-20 chicken wings, a good (bacon bits, cheese, croutons etc..) salad and a big piece of cake with prob cream cheese icing LOL is too much food for a cheat meal???

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## SlimmerMe

ONE cheat meal a week? GO for all you want. Get it out of your system. Meantime as SpyWizard has suggested, write down everything you want to eat. I will find a thread which is a fun read re: cheat meals. It is in the lounge somewhere...

Trick to it? stop after the cheat. Not a cheat day....just a cheat meal.

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## SlimmerMe

Fun read re: cheat meal.....

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...l#.ToXhWBw0i6Y

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## --->>405<<---

well i tell u what .. now i remember why i prefer the elliptical over running.. ITS EASIER!!!! was hoping to maybe get 4 miles at lunch instead i only got 1.5mi/12:27 and then sprinted the last half mile stopping once.. man i tell u sprints after running is BRUTAL! only getting 4 hrs sleep last nite doesnt help.. eating 1 1/2 C oats and 2 scoops whey rite aftr running as well as the fact that i only 3 hrs b4 ate chickn and sweet pot and broc is a little tuff.. 2300 cals of health food takes a good bit of eating.. i saw a guy on here who was eatn 5000 cal/day... betr him than me  :Smilie:

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## gbrice75

Glad to see you logging bro, it DOES make a huge difference when you fvck up and have to come on here to be accountable - because if you're being honest (only cheating yourself if you aren't) and know we might get on you, it'll make you think twice - I know it worked for me! 

One thing though, and maybe this is just because i've become more hardcore lately - but I wouldn't do a cheat meal right now. Or, I would do a larger clean meal for a cheat - i.e. maybe a big bowl of pasta w/ chicken or beef, shrimp, etc something like that. I'm not saying you can't do a cheat forever, but right now it boils down to how quickly you want to reach your goal. Will a single cheat meal per week ruin your diet? No. Will it set you back. Somewhat. 

My .02

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## --->>405<<---

aww man GB i had it all plannd out dude..sunday after church.. chicken wings big salad red velvet cake  :Smilie: LOL i trust u though.. i guess the q is how much will it set me back? also once i start losing bf will i have to modify my diet accordingly eg..new macros ? or not so much since its based on LBM?? and 1 more q.. when i get to like 16-17%(my wall) u think yall will be able to help me break thru that? i was almost to the point to where i was gonna give up ever being able to see my abs.. im giving it one more go man.. im dedicated bro..100000000% i just need someone to help me cuz i dont know what im doing.. never had 4pk 6 pk anypk except 12 pack LOL

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## Back In Black

405, the cals i suggested are relative to your LBM so I'm hoping that we won't have to modify your cals too much. The macro's may change a little but that is partly down to how you react to the split you are on and the subtle changes you will learn to make yourself to best suit you. And, IF you hit your wall, then we'll be here to help you. Our reputations depend on it! BTW you plan on getting bf checked every other week, how often do you plan on weighing in?

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## --->>405<<---

Yeh stem every 2 weeks in bf and weigh in.. Oct 9 I decided .. No cheat meal for now .. (sigh) ill let yall tell me when.. Like i said.. Im serious bout this..

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## --->>405<<---

oh yeh..yesterdays macros for the day: 2345cal/272p/162c/63f 47%/28%24%

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## SlimmerMe

> Yeh stem every 2 weeks in bf and weigh in.. Oct 9 I decided .. No cheat meal for now .. (sigh) ill let yall tell me when.. Like i said.. Im serious bout this..


Good idea. This way you get into a real routine first so you start to see results sooner than later for more motivation~

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## gbrice75

> aww man GB i had it all plannd out dude..sunday after church.. chicken wings big salad red velvet cake LOL i trust u though.. i guess the q is how much will it set me back? also once i start losing bf will i have to modify my diet accordingly eg..new macros ? or not so much since its based on LBM?? and 1 more q.. when i get to like 16-17%(my wall) u think yall will be able to help me break thru that? i was almost to the point to where i was gonna give up ever being able to see my abs.. im giving it one more go man.. im dedicated bro..100000000% i just need someone to help me cuz i dont know what im doing.. never had 4pk 6 pk anypk except 12 pack LOL


I hear u bro... I asked Nark (the wing i'm currently under) about a cheat meal and he wouldn't let me have one either lol! I'm glad though - I want abs more than a meal. The pleasure of looking good lasts forever, the pleasure of food lasts until the last bite - not worth it IMO. 

I can't answer how much it'll set you back; it all depends on what and more importantly, how much you eat. With a moderate caloric deficit throughout the week, and a huge meal (cheeseburger, fries, soda, shake, etc. whatever) - that could negate the deficit you created over a week, or at least slash it in half. Therefore it'll take you twice as long to reach your goal.

I'm just throwing numbers/examples around - nothing scientific about it. The point is, it will set you back to some degree - how much depends on those factors I mentioned. That's why I think a cheat DAY is ridiculous - idk about you, but when I cheat/binge, I go ALL OUT. Probably 10k calories, easily. The worst foods too. Then I feel like crap for days on end... the mental part is so much worse than the physical too...

Remember this: When you reach your goal bodyfat, it'll be much easier to maintain vs. getting there - and you will be able to have a nice cheat meal without worrying.  :Wink: 

I would say stick with your diet 100% dedication for 30 days. If you can do that, reward yourself with a really nice cheat meal, whatever you want. Ideally have the meal the day/early evening before your most intense workout, such as legs. That will at least offset the massive overfeed and put some of those calories to good use. 

So November 1st (around that date) has a nice meal waiting for you if you stick to this plan, and I know you can!!!!  :Wink:

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## --->>405<<---

november 1.. ok .. well i had a good workout today.. startn monday im gonna try the wkout sched stem gave me.. plannd on doin 20 min cardio aftr but i was spent and didnt have running shorts(lucky me ).. ialso would like to put in ive nev er worked my legs strictly EVER.. id do 3 sets or 4 leg press 3 days /week but never dun a "leg day" i do remember reading in mens health mag that if u took 2 guys exactly the same and one wkd legs and the other didnt , the one who did would be like 25%(maybe a little off??)leaner than the one who didnt.. any input on that stem or GB??im hoping that incorporating legs is gonna help me more than i think.. also i will do 40 mins cardio when i get home from wk today..

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## --->>405<<---

well i dont know what happened i thought i put up a post and it disappeared.. weird.. anyways october 30(Sunday) it is.. had a good lift session today.. plannd on running on treadmill after but i didnt have any shorts so ill do 40 min cardio when i get home from work.. also LEGS.. ive NEVER workd them regularly before.. did maybe 3 or 4 sets leg press 3x/week a little bit but thats it.. i read in menshealth mag that if u took 2 guys exactly the same (twins or whatever,clones ) and 1 of them workd legs and the other didnt..the one who didf would be like 25%(not sure of exact amt)leaner than the one who didnt.. so im hoping that doing legs startn monday on the wkout Stem suggestd is gonna help me more than i realise.. most of my friends r like "legs??i dont care about that i just want to be big up top" and i guess i had the same attitude as well.. any thoughts ??? or advice?? BTW GB i really appreciate u and Stem helpn me out man.. i couldnt do this w/o u.. i can run and lift and be disciplined but i just dont know how much of what to do when and why and stuff so thx alot fellas..

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## --->>405<<---

ok thats funny im a freakn NEWB !!! well i was wondering how long itd take to get to a pg 2.. now i know .. 5 days.. i was gonna try to delete the first post but screw it .. ill just be the IDIOT LOL..

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## Back In Black

Not sure how you can wait as long as 2 weeks for your weigh in, when I'm on a cut I'm so impatient I weigh myself twice a week til I figure I'm about 12% then only once a week. But by then you learn to let go of the wait and the mirror starts telling you almost everything you need to know.

LEGS!! Yeah man, essential as far as I'm concerned. Big lifts are proven to increase test levels, so you HAVE TO squat. A good leg session will also burn a shed load of calories and will really work your cardio system too. Get your technique sorted and then play with reps and weight combo's. My legs respond better to higher rep (10-15) range.

Oh, and I nevr do a HIIT cardio session or the day (sometimes 2 days) after.

And I agree on not cheating for the first few weeks. Get in a rhythm, lose some weight and you'll be much more conscious of partly undoing the weeks good work in a one hour binge. If you cheat, just let us know. Abs are better than cake!

Good work on the macro's again!

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## --->>405<<---

what do u think about smith mach squats vs free standing?? i usually lift alone.. i like to go at my pace and then i dont have to keep pulling wt off and putting wt on.. not alot of time for that.. i could do the high rep free squats but i thinnk with heavy i prob outta stik w smith..??

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## Back In Black

Do you have a squat/power rack? I train alone and squat in a rack. I don't like smith squats. I think they cause too many injuries. Unless you have a dual plane Smith? Where it goes back and forward as well as up and down.

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## --->>405<<---

yeh have a squat rack.. i can do it in there ..

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## gbrice75

I would personally never NOT have legs incorporated as a major part of my routine. They account for nearly half the muscle on your body, think about that! 

There are conflicting studies about test levels being elevated as a direct result of big leg workouts, but the bottom line is if you don't do them and develop a nice upper body, you'll look weird. Who would want that? Furthermore, you run a higher risk of injury as you will have an imbalance with legs not built to support a bigger upper half. 

Depending on how you run your leg day, you can burn a TON of calories. I haven't read all of what Stem has suggested and therefore don't want to inadvertently advise against it, but i'd suggest high reps (15-20 range) on squatting exercises and leg press. Keep very short rest periods, 45 secs tops. Finish a leg workout like that and you'll be begging for high intensity cardio, because this kind of workout pwns!! I literally couldn't catch my breath for over 5 minutes after finishing 4 sets of front squats for 20 reps each.

PS - definitely free form vs. smith if possible. The smith 'locks' you into an unnatural ROM which can be dangerous. It may seem/feel safer, but it isn't. I've never hurt myself squatting. Have hurt myself pretty badly squatting on a smith machine. I don't use it for anything but shrugs personally.

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## --->>405<<---

Ok cool! Legs it is monday with shoulders.. Figd id maybe superset squats, leg extens, leg press, and maybe dumbell lunges.. Try 4 sets/15-20 reps then do the same with shoulders: maybe pick 4 exercises and superset them 4 times 8-12 reps... Thats 32 total sets in bout 45 mins.. Im actually really curious to see how it goes.. I know after a good set of squats i get lightheaded after i set the weight down.. (is that normal??) 

Just got thru with my 40 min cardio.. Have been wondering for awhile how accurate my calorie counter is.. 16.6cal/min .. That sound high or rite?? About 665 cal in 40 min.. I must say the cardio wasnt too bad today.. Prob cuz its my 6th strait day of it.. Havent dun cardio 6 strait days in i dont knkw how long... Tomorrow is an "off" day and im off work.. My first full day off since sep 13 so im gonna lay on the couch all day long  :Smilie:  Macros arent really gonna change cuz i
Eating the exact same thing everyday.. ( that ok or do i need to eat difft food??) ill post them after i eat last meal anyways...

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## SlimmerMe

> Ok cool! Legs it is monday with shoulders.. Figd id maybe superset squats, leg extens, leg press, and maybe dumbell lunges.. Try 4 sets/15-20 reps then do the same with shoulders: maybe pick 4 exercises and superset them 4 times 8-12 reps... Thats 32 total sets in bout 45 mins.. Im actually really curious to see how it goes.. I know after a good set of squats i get lightheaded after i set the weight down.. (is that normal??) 
> 
> *Just got thru with my 40 min cardio.*. Have been wondering for awhile how accurate my calorie counter is.. 16.6cal/min .. That sound high or rite?? About 665 cal in 40 min.. I must say the cardio wasnt too bad today.. Prob cuz its my 6th strait day of it.. *Havent dun cardio 6 strait days in i dont knkw how long.*.. Tomorrow is an "off" day and im off work.. My first full day off since sep 13 so im gonna lay on the couch all day long  Macros arent really gonna change cuz i
> Eating the exact same thing everyday.. ( that ok or do i need to eat difft food??) ill post them after i eat last meal anyways...


6 days in a row of cardio is fantastic!

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## gbrice75

Personally I'd give legs their own day, i.e. I wouldn't do shoulders or anything else with them, with the possible exception of ab work. Just my .02

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## --->>405<<---

Gotcha well how bout: 
mon: quads/shoulders
Wed:chest/arms
Fri: hams/back

Also arent i too fat to worry about doing ab work rite now??

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## --->>405<<---

Hey slim thx  :Smilie:  i appreciate ur encouragement  :Smilie:  ur sweet : its nice having some feminine touch in here

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## gbrice75

I'd rather see a full leg day tbh. 

IMO that's rubbish about being too fat to work on abs. Are you too fat to see the results right now? Yes. Does that mean they shouldn't be developed nonetheless? No way! They're a muscle like any other. You're probably too fat to see chest development right now, does that mean you shouldn't work it? Of course not!

I think you can see where I'm going...

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## SlimmerMe

> Hey slim thx  i appreciate ur encouragement  ur sweet : its nice having some feminine touch in here


YOU are so welcome 405~ Appreciate it.

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## --->>405<<---

LOL!!! GB.. Duly noted..

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## --->>405<<---

Daily final macros:2282/283/162/50. 51%/29%/20%

Cott cheese: 315/42/21/9.....but 14g sugar??? This ok ??? Breakstones 2% ckttage cheese... ??? Eat every nite arlund 9 with nat PB... ???

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## SlimmerMe

Have you seen Gbrice's protein ice-cream...?

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...m#.Toh-Rhw0i6Y

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## --->>405<<---

WEll my first rest day is winding to a close.. Did absolutely nothing all afternoon.. Just woke up from a nap .. Stem or GB if u get on here could u look at my previouspost about the cottage cheese?? I wanna make sure the macros for the exact brand are ok.. They are for the whole tub.. 3.5 servings.. They fit into my daily macros just wasnt sure bout the sugar if all cott cheese has sugar or if i need to find a difft brand?? I realize its dairy so it may be the same as all brands.. My wife just informed me shes outside cooking my chikn on the grill for the week as well as throwing the ball for my bluetick coonhound (max) so i guess i better get my lazy butt off the couch  :Smilie:  Legs tomorrow.. Looking forward to seeing how it feels to do a leg wkout.. Will be my first.. Only thru meal 3 at 17:15 so i have some eatn to do.. Not being at work has thrown off my sched a bit .. I will hit proper macros nonetheless..

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## --->>405<<---

Man i was just tLkn to my wife and telling her that my first cheat meal was oct 30.. And she so calmly said.." u mean ur not gonna get cake for ur birthday?" CRAP!!!!! I forgot.. My bday is 10/17 .. I told her wat U said stem"abs r betr thN cake" and she said .. " he hasnt had my cake!" which the woman can make a dang good cake.. Best ive had.. Not just sayn cuz shes my wife either. Its freakn dddelicious .. And moist and just mmm good.. (sigh) well ill just have to celebrate my 37 bday on oct 30... Boy i tell u it keeps getn beter and betr.. 

Is okra and tomatoes ok for a veg in place instead of broc sometimes?? Maybe with a little hot sauce?? Is hot sauce ok? I know bout the sodium but water weight is easy to lose rite?? If not just tell me and i wont eat it..

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## gbrice75

You're a grown man, forego the fvcking cake for once! You gonna wear a party hat and blow on those things that roll out too?

lol, i'm being sarcastic and don't mean to sound like a d!ck, but you need tough love right now. You'll live if you don't have cake on your bday, my .02

----------


## --->>405<<---

How bouT post#57??? If u dont mind? And that was a funny response GB LoL..!

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## gbrice75

I'd go with 1%, especially if you're eating it with PB. I try to stay away from PB, because while peanuts have a decent fat profile, PB is WAYYYY to easy to overeat. Try eating cottage cheese and pop a few fish oil caps, I guarantee you won't overeat.  :Wink: 

Cottage cheese - are you eating the entire tub before bed? I buy the 1% with no salt added... 16g protein per serving (1/2 cup) - 1 full cup is perfect for me before bed. Yea, it has a bit of sugar, and ideally i'd prefer not to eat it especially before bed, but it's lactose (could be worse) and it's not all THAT much.

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## --->>405<<---

Have lookd for 1% and only seen 2% so far.. Stem told me nat pb was good b4 bed.. Get it at fresh market.. From a peanut grinding machine that grinds peanuts into butter w nuttn else added.. And yes ive been eatn the whole tub of cott cheese.. Works into my macros of 2300cal/280p/160c/65f .. Which is 800 cal deficit from my tdee of 3100... It does take a few mins to eat the whole thing... LoL but it is my fav meal of the day.....Where do u get 1% nosalt?? This is 2% low sodium.. I live in SC.. May not have same brands as u in nj if its not very populR

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## --->>405<<---

Oh and i measure 2 tbs PB .. So i dont overeat it..

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## --->>405<<---

Total daily macros: 2302/280/172/49 

Cut cottage cheese from 3.5 servings down to 2.. Gonna try to get up at530 and do 40 min fasted cardio.. LEGS at lunch..

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## Back In Black

FYI, my cott cheese portion at bedtime gives me 24g of pro and 11g of carbs. I have PB before bed cos it gives me something to look forward to. As GB says, it's not the best, but also not the worst as long as you have it measured into your macro's.

ANyway GB, fish oil at bedtime and I'd be waking up an hour into my kip with foul fishy burps!

Top work 405 on hitting your macro's, hope it's not too much like hard work. Soon you'll be a machine, you'll be able to guess weiths of chicken breasts and sweet pots just by lokking at them!

Good luck with the leg session!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Hey thx stem.. Yeh im not currently using fish caps but i have and know the burp ur speakn of.. Should i be using them?? My cott cheese has 12g p/ serving .. Have reduced serving size down to 2 servings.. Will rework macros today to make up for 135 caloriez.. Maybe 3 scoops(insteD of 2) whey pwo?? 110 cal/scoop... Did 45 min fasted cardio this am.. Ate 4 egg n oatmeal rite after shower .. Will be doing 45 min cardio this week , 50 next, and so on up to 60 which is my goal 1 month in.. There i will remain indefinitely..:i 2 look 4ward to PB and cott cheese  :Smilie:

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## Back In Black

> Hey thx stem.. Yeh im not currently using fish caps but i have and know the burp ur speakn of.. Should i be using them??*Yep, maybe 5-10g per day. But you need to factor them into your macro's somewhere.* My cott cheese has 12g p/ serving .. Have reduced serving size down to 2 servings.. Will rework macros today to make up for 135 caloriez.. Maybe 3 scoops(insteD of 2) whey pwo?? 110 cal/scoop...*Where can you fit the extra protein without overloading it in any meal? Breakfast would be my bet, body craving nutrients after it's nightly starve. I take a small scoop of whey as part of my breakfast.* Did 45 min fasted cardio this am.. Ate 4 egg n oatmeal rite after shower .. Will be doing 45 min cardio this week , 50 next, and so on up to 60 which is my goal 1 month in.. There i will remain indefinitely..:i 2 look 4ward to PB and cott cheese  *It's a good sign that you look forward to diet food!*


Oh, and do you reckon your wife's cake would spoil much if you sent me a piece?

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## --->>405<<---

LOL hey i would .. send u a piece.. funny u askd cuz she actually just sent some to a friend in st louis.. she wraps the cake in saran wrap and puts the icing in tupperware and then u put it together urself.. would prob make her very happy to do so.. she loves making cake for other people  :Smilie:  let me know and ill send u some .. just send me ur address in a pm.. i will def tell her u said that regardless  :Smilie:  she makes wedding cakes for friends .. actually just made one in september.. she makes a mean buttercream icing and vanilla cake..

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## gbrice75

My opinion - I like to keep fats relatively low (which you have in your split, good job), between 10-15% of total calories, and never over 20%. 15% is ideal IMO.

Basically, I get all my fats by default from the foods I eat throughout the day (meats, etc) and only supplement additional fats via fish oil caps. Omega-3's are the EFA we don't get nearly enough of. Most people get plenty of 6-9 just via the foods they eat. 

One tip - when you say you measure out your PB in tbsp, i'd suggest going by weight in grams. I know it's a pain in the ass and takes longer (and your wife will probably think you're a maniac like mine does with me), but tbsp measurements can be grossly off in my experience. You may be eating alot more than you think, and PB is so damn calorie dense, it can make a big difference. When you go by grams, you'll see just how small 1tbsp of PB is (ps - i'd switch it to 1tbsp before bed and make up the fat difference in fish oil throughout the day, that's just me). 

As Stem said, it gives you something to look foward to at the end of the day, I totally get it! As you come along, you can make these small adjustments (like dropping the PB) to continue progressing. If you had the PERFECT plan now, there would be nothing to manipulate down the road when progress slows/halts (and it will, so don't freak).  :Wink:

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## --->>405<<---

ok will start measuring pb tonite.. u got me curious now .. i need to get some omega 3 s ..

just got dun with my leg wkout.. man! it was good.. tuff.. i was sweatn my butt off before the first superset was over.. supersetted: squat, romanian deadlift, leg press, leg curl, leg extension, calf raises(standing) 3 supersets then droppd calfs and deadlift but did the other 4 for 1 more superset for a total of 22 sets.. bout 15 reps / set... my gym shirt is now hanging off my car window dripdrying in the sun  :Smilie: 

i need to find some more hamstring wkouts.. the deadlift i may have just been doing wrong but my lower back was tired as heck after three sets... been a good day for workout.. 45 mins cardio and 22 sets on legs all by 13:00.. i can now rest on my butt the remainder of the day..

i tell u another thing.. since ive started last monday i am sleeping like a freaking rock! im ready to see some fat start dropping off now!

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## Back In Black

> LOL hey i would .. send u a piece.. funny u askd cuz she actually just sent some to a friend in st louis.. she wraps the cake in saran wrap and puts the icing in tupperware and then u put it together urself.. would prob make her very happy to do so.. she loves making cake for other people  let me know and ill send u some .. just send me ur address in a pm.. i will def tell her u said that regardless  she makes wedding cakes for friends .. actually just made one in september.. she makes a mean buttercream icing and vanilla cake..


Not sure it will travel 'across the pond' particularly well but thanks for the offer. My Mrs loves baking too, so if she wants to share a recipe.........

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## Back In Black

And good luck with being able to walk tomorrow. If your legs are really sore in the morning can I suggest a very steady sesssion on an exercise bike as a recovery tool as much as a fat burning tool.

As for the RDL's get someone at your gym (who knows what they are on about!) to check your technique. Your back shouldn't arch and you should pivot at the hips. 

Feeling leaner yet?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Hey we could share recipes im sure.. I am feeling a tad bit leaner.. But i am more Conscious of the fat too.. I want it gone gone gone!!! All in due time i suppose.. Thx for the tip with the soreness.. I have elliptical at home so i should be ok.. I am noticeably tired rite now thats for sure... Tomorrow is cardio only day.. Wed chest and back.. Think ill try to up my am fasted cardio more days this week.. Also a bit more hungry today.. Havent been hungry at all since i started until today..

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## Back In Black

I guess we need to factor in a refeed day for you. I normally cut with 240g carbs a day so don't feel the need for a refeed but I reckon you may need one.

GB, do you agree? Maybe every 14 days just add 40g carbs to 2 or 3 of the other meals?

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## SlimmerMe

> Hey we could share recipes im sure.. I am feeling a tad bit leaner.. But i am more Conscious of the fat too.. I want it gone gone gone!!! All in due time i suppose.. Thx for the tip with the soreness.. I have elliptical at home so i should be ok.. I am noticeably tired rite now thats for sure... Tomorrow is cardio only day.. Wed chest and back.. *Think ill try to up my am fasted cardio more days this week..* Also a bit more hungry today.. Havent been hungry at all since i started until today..


That's the ticket.....

Keep up your progress~

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## --->>405<<---

I tell u stem i am startn to get a little impatient for sunday.. I think im gonna really try to kill it the rest of this week.. My biggest fear is not being able to burn this fat! Ive been wkn out kinda slack for a yr and diet was crap but when i was in my 20s i could run 3 days/week and weighed 165 lbs... Now it is harder Nd harder to lose weight.. Curious bout the refeed.. I figd i was tired mainly cuz of the leg wkout.. I hit it as hard as i could..

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## gbrice75

> Also a bit more hungry today.. Havent been hungry at all since i started until today..


It's good that you're hungry. Don't let anybody tell you that being hungry translates to 'starving yourself' and therefore slowing your metabolism, etc etc etc all that crap. You should be hungry. You're body is readjusting to a proper and efficient amount of fuel.




> I guess we need to factor in a refeed day for you. I normally cut with 240g carbs a day so don't feel the need for a refeed but I reckon you may need one.
> 
> GB, do you agree? Maybe every 14 days just add 40g carbs to 2 or 3 of the other meals?


What is the full diet - 170-ish grams of carbs, 7 days a week?

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## --->>405<<---

U want me to post my daily food + macros real quik?? The short answer is yes.. Bout 160g-170g carbs 300gP 60g F

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## gbrice75

Nah, just the macros is fine. 

Personally I wouldn't do a refeed with carbs being that high (relatively speaking), especially 7 days/week. I just don't see a need - IMO you're getting plenty of carbs daily. 

Tbh I'd rather see you carb cycling, in which case I would incorporate a refeed.

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## --->>405<<---

carb cycling? whats that where i eat like 150 carbs x amt days then 50 x amt days then like 250 one day then restart?? would u mind telling me what the benefit of carb cycling is?

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## --->>405<<---

> I guess we need to factor in a refeed day for you.* I normally cut with 240g carbs a day* so don't feel the need for a refeed but I reckon you may need one.
> 
> GB, do you agree? Maybe every 14 days just add 40g carbs to 2 or 3 of the other meals?


if we have the same (or close) LBM how can u cut w that many carbs? how much protein do u eat? how does that work out ? just curious..

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## gbrice75

> carb cycling? whats that where i eat like 150 carbs x amt days then 50 x amt days then like 250 one day then restart?? would u mind telling me what the benefit of carb cycling is?


In a nutshell, yes, something like that. The benefits are that you primarily burn fat while you are on low/moderate carb days, and preserve LBM with the high carb day/refeeds. I will never cut again any other way.




> if we have the same (or close) LBM how can u cut w that many carbs? how much protein do u eat? how does that work out ? just curious..


Just because you have similar LBM means nothing. We're not all designed the same way. Stem is obviously a lean guy and is lucky to be able to cut on a higher carb diet (again, relatively speaking). Based on your stats, you are genetically predisposed to adding/holding on to bodyfat, just like I am. FYI - my current carb cycle has me at 100g carbs for 3 days, zero grams for 3 days (all fibrous veggies, so not really zero, but no starchy carbs at all), and 250g on my refeed day. I'm currently 190lbs and 10-11% and can't get away with eating higher carbs. Just to put it in perspective for you.

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## --->>405<<---

total daily macros: 2273/266/154/61

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## --->>405<<---

wow .. so what should i do? keep rolling with the numbers i have now and see what happens or what? and also say hypothetically i ran a 100c day id still eat 2300 cals just only 400 would be carb and the rest would be split between fat and pro?? (with the exception of fibrous veggies)* also is okra an ok veg to eat stewed with tomatoes? its my fav veg so far..*

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## Back In Black

Perhaps I should clarify. I START my cut at 240g a day. Over time that drops to 200g and then to about 180. I can't function at the gym or in my life with carbs set too low. I have an active job, lift 4 hours a week and do HIIT twice a week plus another 2 cardio sessions. I don't see carbs as an enemy. At all. I know how my body reacts to what carbs i ingest and when. You just need to learn that for yourself.

When I did my first cut I lost alot of muscle, I underate for my activity level. It is individual trial and error to find out what works best for each of us. Even when I'm not lean I'm skinny fat if that makes sense!?

So, 405, after this cut you will have a good idea of what does and doesn't work for you. You will manipulate your carbs out of natural curiosity. You will change your training too. But that is a good thing. And soon you'll be the one on here giving advice!

In all honesty I would keep your macro's as they are. You don't know if it's working til you gets your stats checked. When I start my cut I weigh myself on a Tuesday AND Saturday of every week so I know I'm pitched right with my diet. GET WEIGHED!!!!

When you get to a sticking point or, if you are losing too much LBM, then it will time to adjust your diet accordingly.

Okra is fine to eat, a bit gooey stewed but if that's how you like 'em.And tomatoes are a magical food and I eat them on a cut regularly. But just watch you are getting your macro's right on them, they need to be included in your carb intake.

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## --->>405<<---

Ok so ill weigh myself tomorrow morning.. Should i get bf dun again tonite?? Once a week instead of 2 weeks?? And its funny u say that bout the okra macros.. Theyre the only macros im not exactly sure on.. Skinny Fat.. Know exactly wat u mean.. Exact opposite of myself :Smilie:  im short and thick.. Ur prob tall and thin.. I like the okra stewed w tomatoes myself .. Esp with some hot sauce!! If i werent on a diet id prob throw some bacon and a hamhock in there 2

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## Back In Black

BF check is up to you really. I wouls suggest you get it done at the same time everytime and even the same day day if possible.

And I meant you need to factor in tomatoes to you macro's.

Okra (per 100g 3.5oz) Raw
Cals - 31
Carbs - 7
Pro - 2 
Fat - 0.1
Fibre - 3

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## --->>405<<---

Cool thx man  :Smilie:  now are these okra carbs considered "starchy" oR "fibrous" ???and the same with tomatoes?? Im assuming theres a difference rite? And how should i weigh the difference between the two types of carbs? As far as how they affect my diet?? Sry for all the questions..

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## RaginCajun

> Cool thx man  now are these okra carbs considered "starchy" oR "fibrous" ???and the same with tomatoes?? Im assuming theres a difference rite? And how should i weigh the difference between the two types of carbs? As far as how they affect my diet?? Sry for all the questions..


okra fibrous, tomato starchy (i think, cuz of fructose). i love some stewed okra and tomatoes. here is a little trick in case you didn't know about okra, add a little bit of vinegar to it to relieve some of its stickiness. sounds like you are on a roll bud, keep up the positive progress!

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## Back In Black

Tom's are pretty much devoid of starch. 4g of carbs per 100g. Just depends how many you eat. And what else you add to the mix!?

I include all veggies in my macro's but there are plenty of people who don't.

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## --->>405<<---

well as of yet nothing.. maybe some jalapeno peppers.. put in crockpot for about 4 hrs on low.. peeled whole tomatoes, raw okra, sliced jalapeno peppers.. maybe some lean ground beef.. hot sauce

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## --->>405<<---

oh and garlic powder, black pepper, sweet basil

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## --->>405<<---

hey thx cajun  :Smilie:  i lived in louisiana for about 3 yrs.. as a kid.. crawdad fishing  :Smilie:

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## RaginCajun

> hey thx cajun  i lived in louisiana for about 3 yrs.. as a kid.. crawdad fishing


nice!

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## SlimmerMe

> Perhaps I should clarify. I START my cut at 240g a day. Over time that drops to 200g and then to about 180. I can't function at the gym or in my life with carbs set too low. I have an active job, lift 4 hours a week and do HIIT twice a week plus another 2 cardio sessions. I don't see carbs as an enemy. At all. I know how my body reacts to what carbs i ingest and when. You just need to learn that for yourself.
> 
> When I did my first cut I lost alot of muscle, I underate for my activity level. It is individual trial and error to find out what works best for each of us. Even when I'm not lean I'm skinny fat if that makes sense!?
> 
> So, 405, after this cut you will have a good idea of what does and doesn't work for you. You will manipulate your carbs out of natural curiosity. You will change your training too. But that is a good thing. *And soon you'll be the one on here giving advice!*
> 
> In all honesty I would keep your macro's as they are. You don't know if it's working til you gets your stats checked. When I start my cut I weigh myself on a Tuesday AND Saturday of every week so I know I'm pitched right with my diet. GET WEIGHED!!!!
> 
> When you get to a sticking point or, if you are losing too much LBM, then it will time to adjust your diet accordingly.
> ...


*DITTO! That is how this place works....passing the torch to one another*




> Cool thx man  now are these okra carbs considered "starchy" oR "fibrous" ???and the same with tomatoes?? Im assuming theres a difference rite? And how should i weigh the difference between the two types of carbs? As far as how they affect my diet?? *Sry for all the questions..*


*NO apologies needed. We like curious minds who want to be fed the correct info*




> fibrous. i love some stewed okra and tomatoes. here is a little trick in case you didn't know about okra, add a little bit of vinegar to it to relieve some of its stickiness. *sounds like you are on a roll bud, keep up the positive progress!*


*Yep....sure sound like he is to me as well...*.

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## --->>405<<---

thx for all the encouragement cajun stem slim GB i really appreciate it.. its pretty cool getting on here everyday and having u guys here going thru with me answering questions and offering encouragement.. it makes it alot easier and i look forward to talking to yall... 

well i think i said last nite that i was gonna try to do fasted cardio this am but i didnt.. didnt get off work til 23:00 and didnt get home til about 23:45 and i had to be bak at work at 07:00 so Xnay on the fasted ardioKAY  :Smilie:  but i did do cardio at lunch .. and i went against what u told me stem and did HIIT after a leg day LOL.. sry but i wanted to really get it in.. sometimes i drive myself pretty hard but it prob compensates for when im feeling kind of blah.. 

1/2mile:4:30 jog then: 25 min sprints/ walk ------>>>>sprints/kneel down on the ground gasping for air  :Smilie:  and a very short cool down jog.. may still go for 40 mins steady cardio when i get home.. im ready to get this show on the road!

oh 1 more thing i didnt tell yall yet.. i have a doc appt tomorrow to get test levels and thyroid checked.. family history has thyroid probs and i just want to see why i seem to be so tired alot..i go to bed tired and wake up tired and am tired throughout the day which is not like me .. i must admit since i started this program i feel a fair amt better but since i made the appt i may as well go and get checked.. also my outlook isnt always what it used to be.. i did work 3050 hrs last year +about another 1000 with travel and stuff so that may be the cause.. but i figd if test levels r indeed low thats something i want to know.. and if theyre not then thats one less thing rite?? also (and i know what yall will prob say " cuz of ur diet 405") but it seems i should not have such a hard time losing weight.. i didnt used to.. although i am getting older... any thoughts?

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## gbrice75

> Perhaps I should clarify. I START my cut at 240g a day. Over time that drops to 200g and then to about 180. I can't function at the gym or in my life with carbs set too low. I have an active job, lift 4 hours a week and do HIIT twice a week plus another 2 cardio sessions. I don't see carbs as an enemy. At all. I know how my body reacts to what carbs i ingest and when. You just need to learn that for yourself.
> 
> When I did my first cut I lost alot of muscle, I underate for my activity level. It is individual trial and error to find out what works best for each of us. Even when I'm not lean I'm skinny fat if that makes sense!?
> 
> So, 405, after this cut you will have a good idea of what does and doesn't work for you. You will manipulate your carbs out of natural curiosity. You will change your training too. But that is a good thing. And soon you'll be the one on here giving advice!
> 
> In all honesty I would keep your macro's as they are. You don't know if it's working til you gets your stats checked. When I start my cut I weigh myself on a Tuesday AND Saturday of every week so I know I'm pitched right with my diet. GET WEIGHED!!!!
> 
> When you get to a sticking point or, if you are losing too much LBM, then it will time to adjust your diet accordingly.
> ...


Boom! Spot on, every point made.

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## Back In Black

I don't do hit the day after legs because it pains me to stand or sit. In fact, I trained legs on Saturday and won't be up for a HIIT session til tomorrow. If you managed it, then kudos to you.

Definitely keep your appointment. I had my test levels checked last year because of some issues. The results came back fine but I was pleased I went otherwise I would have always been wondering. Especially need to go if you have a family history!

Your life sounds pretty manic so it may the reason for the tiredness. Lucky that Mrs 405 looks after you well.

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## --->>405<<---

TotAl daily macros:2292/267/157/60

Didnt do any more cardio tonite.. Off tomorrow so i will get up and do 45 minutes fasted cardio and then go do chest and back around lunch..

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## --->>405<<---

Well i woke up this morning an did 45 min fasted cardio.. Went pretty well.. Off work today so i am now about th go do chest and back.. Got on the scale this morning just for th heck of it and i weigh 210.2 lbs down from 213lbs in the first 10 days.. The real tale teller will be sunday when i get bf tested... Am happy with my progress so far.. Lookn like about 2 lbs / week ...

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## SlimmerMe

> Well i woke up this morning an *did 45 min fasted cardio.*. Went pretty well.. Off work today so i am now about th go do chest and back.. Got on the scale this morning just for th heck of it and i weigh *210.2 lbs down from 213lbs* in the first 10 days.. The real tale teller will be sunday when i get bf tested... Am happy with my progress so far.. Lookn like about 2 lbs / week ...


PERFECT! and on track.....keep it up and you will see the scale continue to go down down down.....

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## Back In Black

2lbs a week by the time Santa comes and you'll be over 20lbs down. That, sir, will be an excellent start!

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## --->>405<<---

Thx slim...stem.. Just got thru lifting... Hit it hard today.. 
Supersetted:flat dumbell bench
Incline cable flyes
Incline dumbell bench
Pec dEck machine

Back: bent t bar rows
Wide grip lat pulldown
Reverse cable flyes
Lawnmowers

Did 3 supersets back and 4 supersets chest 10 reps/ set

Doc appt at 13:20

Been a good day so far

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## --->>405<<---

Total daily macros:2223/270/168/47 

Well day 10 is completed.. Stayd 100% on diet thus far which is good cuz im committed... UsuAlly lately i would allow myself "just a bite here or there" but not this time.. Really hoping the bf chek sunday is good... Was nice being off today and getn 45 min cardio and lift dun by noon.. Almost felt like an off day this afternoon cuz i didnt have Nything to do.. Tomorrow is cardio only day.. Prob gonna do hiit session at the park during lunch... Should get blood work back monday...not a big fan of the doctor...Hope everyone is doing well ..

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## --->>405<<---

Hey stem and gb..not to get off subject here and i am aware i have a long way to go first but i was reading a few other posts on here and had a few questions pop in my head.. First off let me say i have always had a struggle with bf so that being said even when i was around 16% and lifting i only ate what i considered to be "diet" food whike i was lifting and the concept of maintenance calories and what not i didnt even know existed.. I have always only seemed to be able to put on so much muscle and thats where it ended.. I am beginning to understand that the readon why that was is because in order to gain more muscle i needed to eat more food?? Rite?? So once i get my bf down to say 12% then i can change my diet to actually get bigger than i have been able to do previously by eating above my maintenance calories?? And if so what is the process? Do u do that for a period of time and then cut calories back to drop bf and hopefully hang onto muscle and then repeat and repeat ?? Where my maintenance calories over time will continue to go up and up ?? And would that also go along the lines with my strength as in now my max bench is 315lbs but as my lbm and maintenance calories go up then also should the amt of weight im able to lift climb in proportion?? And will all thise previously included go up umtil i finally reach a " ceiling" that i cannot surpass naturally which is why some people then choose to add AS to the mix in order to continue climbing?? Hope this isnt too long and thx ahead of time for reading all this...

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## --->>405<<---

Well not a great start to the day.. At work waiting for a tow truk to come get my car... 2nd time in 15 days.. So much for lunchtime hiit.. Guess ill have to do moderate 45 mins at home tonite...

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## gbrice75

> Hey stem and gb..not to get off subject here and i am aware i have a long way to go first but i was reading a few other posts on here and had a few questions pop in my head.. First off let me say i have always had a struggle with bf so that being said even when i was around 16% and lifting i only ate what i considered to be "diet" food whike i was lifting and the concept of maintenance calories and what not i didnt even know existed.. I have always only seemed to be able to put on so much muscle and thats where it ended.. I am beginning to understand that the readon why that was is because in order to gain more muscle i needed to eat more food?? Rite?? So once i get my bf down to say 12% then i can change my diet to actually get bigger than i have been able to do previously by eating above my maintenance calories??


Pretty much, yes. My advice would be to strip the bodyfat first, then adjust calories to slowly start adding muscle while maintaining the lowered bodyfat percentage. 




> And if so what is the process? Do u do that for a period of time and then cut calories back to drop bf and hopefully hang onto muscle and then repeat and repeat ?? Where my maintenance calories over time will continue to go up and up ??


Right now you need to cut, no doubt. Once you readjust to start adding mass, there's no reason to have to keep 'cycling' - i.e. the old bulk/cut/bulk/cut thing is ridiculous IMO. With discipline, you can slowly add mass and maintain your bodyfat, negating the need to run a hardcore cut for any extended period of time. There may be times you need to adjust/lower calories to shed a bit of fat, but it shouldn't get to a point where it has to become an all out max effort again and again.

Maintenance calories will have to be adjusted as your body composition changes.




> And would that also go along the lines with my strength as in now my max bench is 315lbs but as my lbm and maintenance calories go up then also should the amt of weight im able to lift climb in proportion??


No, not necessarily. There's no direct correlation. Tbh, if it's strength you're most concerned with, then you should really reconsider what you want to get out of all of this. You can train for strength, but in my experience the strongest guys aren't usually the best looking per se. i.e. the ripped cut bodybuilder looking guys usually don't have huge lifts, relatively (and very generally) speaking of course.

For me personally, I don't care if I have the weakest bench in the gym - as long as I LOOK like I have the strongest!  :Wink: 




> And will all thise previously included go up umtil i finally reach a " ceiling" that i cannot surpass naturally which is why some people then choose to add AS to the mix in order to continue climbing?? Hope this isnt too long and thx ahead of time for reading all this...


At some point, we all reach our genetic potential. If at that time you feel you want more out of this, AAS is an option to look into. Personally, I think you have a long way to go before you hit that crossroad.




> Well not a great start to the day.. At work waiting for a tow truk to come get my car... 2nd time in 15 days.. So much for lunchtime hiit.. Guess ill have to do moderate 45 mins at home tonite...


Sucks man. But, don't sweat the small stuff. Keep your eye on the prize, do the best you can in any given situation and you'll fare well.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Hey thx GB .. Yeh im not sweatn the car.. Think im gonna get rid of it.. I appreciate all the clarification.. I think i have a fair understanding now.. One thing i read in particular was a guy talking about "priming?" other than that i will continue on my journey to 12% bf (hopefully) and then with u guys help reevaluate...

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well long day finally over ... Total daily macros:2343/277/169/55 

Did manage to get my 45 min moderate cardio in.. Just finished.. Eatn cott chee n natt pb and getn reDy for bed.. See yall tomorrow...

----------


## Back In Black

Well done dude, weigh in in only 2 days, keep it up.

BTW, our macro's are now almost exactly the same. I prob have 10g extra carbs but about 30g less protein. I am now unly losing up to 1lb a week but am probably on my last 5lbs to lose. Maybe I should start a log of that.

----------


## gbrice75

Would like to see your log Stem. Is your avy how you currently look? If so, u wanna lose 5 more lbs on top of that? Where are they gonna come from? lol!  :Wink:

----------


## Back In Black

> Would like to see your log Stem. Is your avy how you currently look? If so, u wanna lose 5 more lbs on top of that? Where are they gonna come from? lol!


Ha ha, no I don't look like that right now. But in 5lbs or so I should (minus the tan). Had a crap year with back problems and other crises and have pretty much lost 7 months of progress. Very back on track and, I hit the small four 0, 6 weeks today!

----------


## --->>405<<---

good morning guys (and slim)  :Smilie:  .. well todays a new day.. my car is dead LOL have to buy another one.. no worries we were a 3 car family so i have another one.. anyways thx stem and i would also like to see ur log.. wasnt sure if that was u in ur avy but i thought it mite be.. ill be glad when i look good enuff to put myself in my avy  :Smilie:  YES! weigh in sunday! i guess well have some good answers then as to whether or not our approach is on target?? hope the bf comes out well.. i am sure the weight is dropping.. i was gonna do arms and shoulders today but i have to go get the stuff outta my car at lunch so itll be a cardio only day again and ill do my 3rd lift of the week tomorrow..

----------


## RaginCajun

your doing fine, consistency is the key to this stuff. keep it up!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well guys im cutting to the core today at lunch.. i have an appt to get bf checked at a place with a thing called a "bod pod" that measures bf with air... supposed to be the most accurate way to measure it.. will be interested to see what it says mine is compared to the 22% i got with the calipers.. stay tuned.. should have numbers around 13:00

----------


## SlimmerMe

> good morning guys (and slim)  .. well todays a new day.. my car is dead LOL have to buy another one.. no worries we were a 3 car family so i have another one.. anyways thx stem and i would also like to see ur log.. wasnt sure if that was u in ur avy but i thought it mite be.. ill be glad when i look good enuff to put myself in my avy  YES! weigh in sunday! i guess well have some good answers then as to whether or not our approach is on target?? hope the bf comes out well.. i am sure the weight is dropping.. i was gonna do arms and shoulders today but i have to go get the stuff outta my car at lunch so itll be a* cardio only day* again and ill do my 3rd lift of the week tomorrow..


that will work when all else gets in the way. Life happens. And good morning to you too!

Looking forward to your BF results. Kudos for doing it. This way you have a before.....so then your future avy becomes the after!

----------


## --->>405<<---

OK the verdict is in...and its ugly  :Smilie: 

26.6%BF
73.4%LBM

LBM=71.25kg

370 + (21.6 x 71.25)= 1909 x 1.55 = 2959 TDEE

NOW let me say i have an acquaintance i work with who is currently an amateur bodybuilder. He has won every contest in Ga. there is to win as an amateur and hes planning on going to nationals so he can turn pro..I was talking to him today and he told me that at my weight i should be eating like 370p/165c/65f to lose fat and keep LBM.. he also told me what he suggests to be done (and he apparently did this with a guy he said was 25% bf and got him down to 11%bf in 8 weeks with the help of ECA and Clen ) was to eat : 

days 1-3: 0g carb
days 3-6 70g carb
day 7: 200g carb 

then repeat..all the while maintaining tdee with strictly protein other than the carbs on the 4 days i consume carbs and on the days i dont consume any carbs eating only meat .. he said this would accelerate my fatloss .. also said to either do fasted cardio or cardio PWO only.. 

Stem and GB i really would like to hear yalls opinion on this as i am definitely wanting to shed bf ASAP and willing to work hard to do it.. thx guys

----------


## Back In Black

Ah, I see the gremlins and doubts are creeping in already?! Bad news for you on the bf reading but we are more concerned about the final destination rather than the start point. Can you get your bod pod done free?

Your colleague is referring to a carb cycling diet, and there's nothing wrong with them, GB uses a form of it. Swears by it. Doesn't work for me, I'm the type of person that needs to eat the same everyday, it's the only thing that keeps me on track. Too much confusion on prep of food for me with a cycling approach. But it does work for some.

Down 14% in 8 weeks is a little tough to believe but possible if training and diet and clen and eca is all part of the equation. I've tried clen and eca and tbh, I won't bother again. If I did, it wouldn't be til my bf was relatively low anyway.

If I can refer you to my little transformation which I reckon I could now do within 3-4 months with what I learned from that and subsequent cuts. Using the same principles you are following.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...se.&highlight=

As for fasted OR PWO, there are studies to suggest 2 cardio sessions a day will yield greater fat loss results. If it works for you, do both. If you struggle for time and can only do one, do one.

In all honesty, the choice is yours. Do either but not both. Pick one and stick to it until you reach your goals or hit a true sticking point.

You've already started getting into a routine with your diet, I would give it at least 6 weeks and see how you go.

----------


## SlimmerMe

IMO it is best to wait to do Clen or ECA once you get to a plateau and since you just started it is a little premature perhaps

YOU CAN DO THIS! YOU ARE DOING IT!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Stem thats funny.. Gremlins.. Yeh i want to say i am NOT planning on doing clen .. Have done EC before w/o the "a" and i dont know if it was that or my diet or both but i had fair results.. I must say after going to the bod pod today i realize hiw much fat i actually need to lose.. Thx for ur thread stem .. Very interesting.. Kinda weird seeing a pic of u with fat  :Smilie:  u did well for urself.. GB had mentioned earlier the idea of me carb cycling And i wasnt exacy sure what that wAs but when i talkd to this guy today i remembered wAt GB said so i interrogTed him for quite awhile.. And then the first thing i thought of was running it by u guys to see if he may have been exaggerating or not..i like most people tend to be a little impatient with my results esp in the beginning so i found the acceleration part of it appealing.. Just got thru with 45 min cardio so tomorrow 45 min fasted cardio and shoulders and arms at lunch...

----------


## gbrice75

> OK the verdict is in...and its ugly 
> 
> 26.6%BF
> 73.4%LBM
> 
> LBM=71.25kg
> 
> 370 + (21.6 x 71.25)= 1909 x 1.55 = 2959 TDEE


No worries mate. As Stem said, let's focus on the goal, not where you're coming from. 

One thing - I don't put much credence into the calorie formulas. IMO they almost always come out too high. The problem is with the activity multiplier being so subjective. What you consider 'moderately active' and what I do may be worlds apart. 

Having said that, I use a different approach. I'll get into it more below - but I don't believe for a minute that your TDEE is 3000 calories/day. 




> NOW let me say i have an acquaintance i work with who is currently an amateur bodybuilder. He has won every contest in Ga. there is to win as an amateur and hes planning on going to nationals so he can turn pro..I was talking to him today and he told me that at my weight i should be eating like 370p/165c/65f to lose fat and keep LBM


With all due respect to him - and i'm no bodybuilder so take my advice for what it's worth - but you do NOT need 370g protein. I doubt he does either. I constantly see people overeating protein, and it's so unnecessary. 300g, tops for you. I'm currently 5'11 193ish @ < > 11% and am at 250g/day. I doubt you know Nark on this board - but at his biggest he was around 220lbs (he's 5'7 btw) and has never eaten over 225g or so (something like that, i forget the exact number). There's an easy way to cut some unnecessary calories right there. Yep, from protein. 

Carbs and fats - I like where he has them (fats may be a tad high but ok) but I'd carb cycle, I wouldn't eat 165g carbs every day.




> he also told me what he suggests to be done (and he apparently did this with a guy he said was 25% bf and got him down to 11%bf in 8 weeks with the help of ECA and Clen ) was to eat : 
> 
> days 1-3: 0g carb
> days 3-6 70g carb
> day 7: 200g carb


Love it! But i'm confused - does he want you eating like this, or eating 165g carbs/day?




> then repeat..all the while maintaining tdee with strictly protein other than the carbs on the 4 days i consume carbs and on the days i dont consume any carbs eating only meat .. he said this would accelerate my fatloss .. also said to either do fasted cardio or cardio PWO only..


Well we certainly cannot leave fat out of the equation, that would be irresponsible advice. I'm assuming he expects you'll get all the fats you need from meats, eggs, etc. That's what I do as well. I would supplement with fish oils however.

cardio - want to accelerate your fatloss? Do both!!! AM fasted (low intensity) and PWO (higher intensity/HIIT + moderate/steady state, mixed) would be awesome. If I had the time after work, that's exactly what i'd be doing.

----------


## --->>405<<---

GB i think what he was saying is if i was not to carb cycle those were the numbers i should run ... And to give the guy a break he was sitting in a crane talking to me over a radio giving me estimates based on the weight i told him i was... He said he needed his laptop to be able to give me exact figures .. But if u can imagine what it was like to be hungry(funny irony) to lose weight like i am i was hitting him with question after question.. He only touched on the 370/165/65 thing briefly... He mainly wAs driving hard about the 0carb/70carb/200carb which he also said was an estimate just off the top of his head based on what u told him i weigh.. I would also like to add he said he put his girlfriend on the sAme diet and she went from 20% bf to i think 7% also in 8 weeks...!he did say like 1hr 15 min lift sessions qnd 45 min fasted cardio as well as some pwo cardio (if possible) plus clen and eca...

----------


## --->>405<<---

Oh 1 other thing./ he said protein should be 1.5 x (weight in Lbs) and the days u eat the carbs like 70g carb u split into 6 meals because u should always eat carb w/protein .. And the same on the 200g carb refeed day.. He also said u coukd go longer than 3 days at 0g carb but most people cant handle it...

----------


## --->>405<<---

Total daily macros:2318/268/164/61

Next up am fasted cardio day #3 (this week) .. Not bad considering i despise waking up and doing cardio.. Then ill do arms and shoulders.. At lunch... See yall tomorrow...

----------


## --->>405<<---

well its another glorious day  :Smilie:  woke up 15 min late this am but still managed to get in 45 min fasted cardio.. kept HR @ 138 instead of 155.. GB had mentioned low intensity and i know theres a way to calculate what that is based on max HR but i cant remember the formula.. i think for me HR was @125 but it just didnt seem like that was really cardio .. i may just be being hard headed (a major trait of mine)..

Stem or GB would u mind explaining what the deal is with low intensity vs moderate or high for fat burning?? doesnt it have something to do with ur body being able to focus on using fat for fuel vs trying to keep oxygen in ur blood ??? 

so all i have left for today is arms and shoulders.. i may do another cardio session tonite when i get home from work.. im really thinking hard about changing up to the carb cycle approach monday.. im just not absolutely sure what the numbers should look like.. im thinking:

weight in LBS = 209
209 x 1.5 = 314(g protein)
314 x 4 = 1256 (cal)

70g carb = 280 cal

1256 + 280 = 1536 (total calories) now is that enuff?? doesnt really seem like it would be.. what do yall think????

and on the 0g carb days i would be at 1256 cal 

and on the 200g carb days = 2056 cal.. 

or should i do 70g carb days based on what im doing now which is 2300 cal so:

2300 - 280 = 2020 
2020/4 = 505 g protein

so: 2300cal/505P/70C/fat?= whatever it is

then: 0g carb day = 505g PRO = 2020 cal (days 1-3)
70g carb day = 505p/70c = 2300 cal (days4-6)
200g carb day = 505P/200c= 2820 cal (day7)

this is kind of confusing.. HELP!!  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Just a quickie, Max Heart Rate most basic calculation is 220 minus your age. Low intensity is about 65-70% of your max. The 'fat burning zone'. But there is far more to it than that. Honestly, until you are well below 20%, even 15%, I wouldn't consider it. Stick with your HIIT, normal interval and moderate (70-85% of your Max HR). You just need to burn some calories, your bodyfat will help spare your muscle. Just whack 10g BCAA's in pre fasted cardio and keep your diet in check and you are gtg.

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## gbrice75

> GB i think what he was saying is if i was not to carb cycle those were the numbers i should run ... And to give the guy a break he was sitting in a crane talking to me over a radio giving me estimates based on the weight i told him i was... He said he needed his laptop to be able to give me exact figures .. But if u can imagine what it was like to be hungry(funny irony) to lose weight like i am i was hitting him with question after question.. He only touched on the 370/165/65 thing briefly... He mainly wAs driving hard about the 0carb/70carb/200carb which he also said was an estimate just off the top of his head based on what u told him i weigh..


Cool bro, understandable. 




> I would also like to add he said he put his girlfriend on the sAme diet and she went from 20% bf to i think 7% also in 8 weeks...


Doesn't mean a thing with regards to you... apples and oranges. Furthermore, I have yet to see a female sitting at 7%... just doesn't happen. Women have a naturally higher bodyfat percentage than men. I'm not doubting he got her lean though.




> !he did say like 1hr 15 min lift sessions qnd 45 min fasted cardio as well as some pwo cardio (if possible) plus clen and eca...


x2




> Oh 1 other thing./ he said protein should be 1.5 x (weight in Lbs) and the days u eat the carbs like 70g carb u split into 6 meals because u should always eat carb w/protein .. And the same on the 200g carb refeed day.. He also said u coukd go longer than 3 days at 0g carb but most people cant handle it...


Personally I go with 1.5g/lb of LBM, not total weight. No point in factoring in weight with no metabolic function (fat). I will vehemently disagree with the next part though. I would split those 70g between pre and post workout meals, and possibly meal 1. You do NOT always have to eat carbs w/ protein - I know he's a competitive bodybuilder, but I will debate him on this one to no end!  :Big Grin: 

Protein only meals are acceptable. Personally, my non-carb meals contain a bit of fat (whatever comes with the protein source, plus fish oil supp) and possibly some fibrous veggies, that's it. Having carbs in every meal is constantly providing your body with energy; the point of carb cycling is to force your body to deplete glycogen stores and tap into fat stores for energy prior to the refeed. I realize you'd still have the 3 no carb days to achieve this, but I would strongly recommend your carb meals stay focused around your workout window, and if macros permit, meal 1 as well.




> well its another glorious day  woke up 15 min late this am but still managed to get in 45 min fasted cardio.. kept HR @ 138 instead of 155.. GB had mentioned low intensity and i know theres a way to calculate what that is based on max HR but i cant remember the formula.. i think for me HR was @125 but it just didnt seem like that was really cardio .. i may just be being hard headed (a major trait of mine)..
> 
> Stem or GB would u mind explaining what the deal is with low intensity vs moderate or high for fat burning?? doesnt it have something to do with ur body being able to focus on using fat for fuel vs trying to keep oxygen in ur blood ???


Higher intensity cardio forces your body to tap into glycogen stores moreso than fat (lower intensity burns a higher percentage of fat, but lower amount of calories overall obviously... it's a never ending debate!). This is fine when you have energy (carbs) in your system, but when you're depleted, or fasted, stores are low and you run a higher risk of burning LBM. Staying on the lower/moderate intensity side brings this risk down significantly. 




> so all i have left for today is arms and shoulders.. i may do another cardio session tonite when i get home from work.. im really thinking hard about changing up to the carb cycle approach monday.. im just not absolutely sure what the numbers should look like.. im thinking:
> 
> weight in LBS = 209
> 209 x 1.5 = 314(g protein)
> 314 x 4 = 1256 (cal)
> 
> 70g carb = 280 cal
> 
> 1256 + 280 = 1536 (total calories) now is that enuff?? doesnt really seem like it would be.. what do yall think????


Up your carbs to 100g, and split it across 3 meals (meal 1, pre, pwo) at around 33g per meal - my suggestion




> and on the 0g carb days i would be at 1256 cal


a bit too low. Add in lots of fibrous veggies. They may not be calorie dense, but they'll help with hunger. You need to make sure these zero carb days are strategically planned around the appropriate workouts however - i.e. I wouldn't do legs during a no carb day




> and on the 200g carb days = 2056 cal..


nice




> or should i do 70g carb days based on what im doing now which is 2300 cal so:
> 
> 2300 - 280 = 2020 
> 2020/4 = 505 g protein
> 
> so: 2300cal/505P/70C/fat?= whatever it is
> 
> then: 0g carb day = 505g PRO = 2020 cal (days 1-3)
> 70g carb day = 505p/70c = 2300 cal (days4-6)
> ...


I'm willing to bet calories will be too high in the 2nd example. I'd peg you at around 1800 calories on carb days, 1500 on no carb days, and 2000-ish on high carb/refeed day. Something in that ballpark.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well im curious GB and ill post up a sample carb cycle after this but ive been running 2300 cals with : 280/165/60 split and my weight has dropped 4 lbs in 2 weeks.. that being said u think on carb cycle i should drop cals even more down to 1800/1500/2000???

----------


## --->>405<<---

Mon: Legs- 320p/200c = 2080cal refeed day -- pro split 6 ways/carbs first 3 meals/ veg last 3 meals

tue: Cardio only- 320p/0c = 1280 cal + fibrous veg (broccoli/spinach/asparagus) -- pro split/6 veg split/6

wed:chest/back- 320p/0c = 1280 cal +fib veg(br/sp/as)-- pro split/6 veg split/6

thu :Embarrassment: ff day 320p/0c = 1280 cal + fib veg(br/sp/as)-- pro split/6 veg split/6

fri:delts/arms- 320p/100c = 1680 cal + fib veg(br/sp/as)-- pro split/6 carb split/first 3 veg split/last 3

sat:cardio only-320p/100c = 1680cal + fib veg(br/sp/as)-- pro split/6 carb split/first3 veg split/last 3

sun:cardio only-320p/100c = 1680cal + fib veg(br/sp/as)-- pro split/6 carb split/first3 veg split/last 3

cardio for all 6 days done am fasted if possible

also what size serving on the fibrous veg should i eat?? 

This sounds tuff btw for some reason  :Smilie: 

thx...

----------


## gbrice75

> well im curious GB and ill post up a sample carb cycle after this but ive been running 2300 cals with : 280/165/60 split and my weight has dropped 4 lbs in 2 weeks.. that being said u think on carb cycle i should drop cals even more down to 1800/1500/2000???


If you're dropping weight (i'm more concerned with body fat vs. body weight though), then maybe you're currently at a good deficit. I'd personally want to play with the numbers and push it as far as I can without going to low, to make it as efficient and fast as possible however.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Wat bout sample diet??? Look good ??? Days and ratios of carbs with wkouts ???

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## --->>405<<---

Ok well i did another 45 min cardio session tonite after work.. Had a good day.. Did 45 min am fasted cardio when i woke up, did arms and shoulders at lunch, did 45 min cardio after work.. Wish i could do this everyday...tomorrows an off day.. Thinking of starting carb cycle tuesday.. At 0 carbs .. So itll start like tue-thu (0carb); fri-sun(100C);mon(200C refeed) .. Weigh in tomorrow and im gonna get my wife to do calipers agAin.. (been 2 weeks) even if its not as accurate As bod pod maybe i can tell if ive lost some fat since 2 weeks ago... GB or Stem if u cOuld chek out the post #133 then #131 i would appreciate it ...

Daily Macros:2198/268/164/47

----------


## SlimmerMe

> ok well i *did another 45 min cardio session tonite after work.. Had a good day.. Did 45 min am fasted cardio when i woke up,* did arms and shoulders at lunch, did 45 min cardio after work.. Wish i could do this everyday...tomorrows an off day.. Thinking of starting carb cycle tuesday.. At 0 carbs .. So itll start like tue-thu (0carb); fri-sun(100c);mon(200c refeed) .. Weigh in tomorrow and im gonna get my wife to do calipers again.. (been 2 weeks) even if its not as accurate as bod pod maybe i can tell if ive lost some fat since 2 weeks ago... Gb or stem if u could chek out the post #133 then #131 i would appreciate it ...
> 
> Daily macros:2198/268/164/47


you are working it! Good!

----------


## Back In Black

In all honesty I've never ran a carb cycling diet for various reasons so don't really feel comfortable passing comment on it, personally. It's the same with any style of diet, unless I've done, I'll never recommend or condone.

So, you reckon at 37 you'll be fitter than you were at 17? And stronger! And that lean-ness is just around the corner!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Man i hope so stem :Smilie:  got wife to chek bf today .. I know its off from bod pod but it came out at 20.5% .. 2 weeks ago lbm was 75.6 .. Today lbm is 75.4... So bf dropped from 21.9 to 20.5 and lbm dropped from 75.6 to 75.4... Total weight in pounds went from 213 to 208.6 .... Progress!!!!! Rite??  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

4lbs down, almost 100% of it fat? Yeah, I reckon that's progress. Another 20lbs by Christmas then?

----------


## --->>405<<---

My plan starting tomorrow is 45min am fasted cardio then legs at lunch and then 45 min cardio in the evening.. Same diet im on now then tue start at 320p/0c 45min am fasted cardio/45 min pm cardio... Ill be interested to see how the next 2 weeks go.. Stem u told me id be trying difft stuff.. I didnt think itd be this soon and it may be unwise since so far my current diet is working but im gonna try it anyways.. Id like to shed this fat ASAP!!! I hope 2 a day cardio and carb cycle will accomPlish that.. Time will definitely tell.. Next bod pod appt.. November 7 .. (30 days after 1st bod pod)

----------


## --->>405<<---

I hope at least 20 by christmas :Smilie:  had a thought of waiting til my progress slows before considering ECA.. Any opinions?? ECA vs EC?? Is another question.. Is that much aspirin ok for me?? Running 200aspirin/200caffeine/25ephedra. 2 times/day 2 weeks on 2 weeks off???

----------


## Back In Black

As I seem to remember the aspirin should be 75mg not 200mg. Used to be called baby aspirin in the UK. It depends how you react to it. You may be able to do 3x a day. Just not too late, else you won't sleep.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ok 25E/200C/75A yeh i know 3x/day but i think tat was alot for me.. Maybe in the 2nd week.. Not real big on speed :Smilie:  makes me anxious

----------


## --->>405<<---

Im ready to start seeing some results

----------


## gbrice75

> My plan starting tomorrow is 45min am fasted cardio then legs at lunch and then 45 min cardio in the evening.. Same diet im on now then tue start at 320p/0c 45min am fasted cardio/45 min pm cardio... Ill be interested to see how the next 2 weeks go.. Stem u told me id be trying difft stuff.. I didnt think itd be this soon and it may be unwise since so far my current diet is working but im gonna try it anyways.. Id like to shed this fat ASAP!!! I hope 2 a day cardio and carb cycle will accomPlish that.. Time will definitely tell.. Next bod pod appt.. November 7 .. (30 days after 1st bod pod)


You will find what works best for you eventually, however my advice is that you stick with something for at least a month before switching it up... don't make the mistake I made (many times over) and abandon a program or method after 2 weeks because it 'felt' like it wasn't working. Your body needs time to adjust to changes and will not show results overnight no matter what you do.

----------


## SlimmerMe

> Man i hope so stem got wife to chek bf today .. I know its off from bod pod but it came out at 20.5% .. 2 weeks ago lbm was 75.6 .. Today lbm is 75.4... *So bf dropped from 21.9 to 20.5 and lbm dropped from 75.6 to 75.4... Total weight in pounds went from 213 to 208.6 .... Progress!!!!! Rite?? :*)


*YOU BET! YIPPY!*




> My plan starting tomorrow is 45min am fasted cardio then legs at lunch and then 45 min cardio in the evening.. Same diet im on now then tue start at 320p/0c* 45min am fasted cardio/45 min pm cardio.*.. Ill be interested to see how the next 2 weeks go.. Stem u told me id be trying difft stuff.. I didnt think itd be this soon and it may be unwise since so far my current diet is working but im gonna try it anyways.. Id like to shed this fat ASAP!!! I hope 2 a day cardio and carb cycle will accomPlish that.. Time will definitely tell.. Next bod pod appt.. November 7 .. (30 days after 1st bod pod)


*This will do it!*

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well not much happened today.. (off day) stayd on diet 100% which does make 100% faithfulness to diet now for 14 consecutive days.. That alone is an accomplishment.. I dont think ive ever eaten this heAlthy w/o cheating at least once for this long EVER! Its funny i dont even think about other food really anymore just think about wat i am eating next and when and thinking bout my workouts.. Except when i go in the kitchen like tonite and my wife and daughter are having waffles for dinner as i grab my tuna and cottage cheese LOL.. Tomorrow 5am fasted cardio 45 mins ... I hope i have as good progress over the next 2 weeks ive had the first 2 ... The time actually has gone by fairly quikly... Having yall to report 2 each day helps as well.. Im hoping after the next 2 weeks ill at keast see enuff diff to post another fat guy pic  :Smilie: 

Total Daily Macros:2292/267/157/60

----------


## gbrice75

^^^ you're doing great bro! 14 days is a huge accomplishment when you're not used to eating like this. Make it another 2 weeks and you'll feel like a king!

As Baseline always likes to put it.... stay sharp!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well i woke up this am and jumpd on the scale for the heck of it and was 208 flat.. Down from 208.6 yesterday.. Weighed again aftr my 45 min fasted cardio and was 207.2... I do realize tat was prob water.. Am thinkn of takn ur advice stem and Gb and stayn on my current diet a little longer.. Maybe the next 2 weeks will be better than the first.. Wat do yall think of me simply droppn daily carbs from 160 down to 100?????

----------


## gbrice75

> Well i woke up this am and jumpd on the scale for the heck of it and was 208 flat.. Down from 208.6 yesterday.. Weighed again aftr my 45 min fasted cardio and was 207.2... I do realize tat was prob water.. Am thinkn of takn ur advice stem and Gb and stayn on my current diet a little longer.. Maybe the next 2 weeks will be better than the first.. Wat do yall think of me simply droppn daily carbs from 160 down to 100?????


Try it out. It may help. You won't starve, you won't burn LBM.

----------


## --->>405<<---

alright.. leg wkout went well.. better than last week.. think im getn in a rhythm doing legs..omitted roman deads for now and just supersetted:leg press,squat,leg exten,leg curl,standing calf raises.. did 4 supersets ave 12 reps/set.. i tell u im tired.. pm cardio is gonna be tuff today.. job today requires a little more physical effort than normal.. will start reduction to 100g carb tomorrow.. curious as to whether i should split between first 3 meals @33g/meal or do 50g C pre w/o and 50g PWO??? also stem and gb thatll reduce total calories from @ 2300 to 2150.. that ok or should i add more protein to compensate?? thx

----------


## Back In Black

I think you will probably need to work out which method your body prefers, either split over 3 meals or 2. Think I'd go with 3. But then, I never drop below 4 meals with carbs.

The reduced cals isn't a real issue at your current bf levels. If you feel the need to add pro, maybe a little more at breakfast and after workouts. If not, don't sweat it.

And, at 100g carbs a day, I would be inclined to have a small refeed every 14 days. 200g of good clean carbs on that day.

----------


## --->>405<<---

how can i tell which my body prefers? ill start like u said at 33/meal x 3 meals and will incorporate the refeed of 200g every 2 weeks.. also think i may bump up protein for the heck of it to see how that does..maybe 2 scoops in the am and 1 extra pwo ?? be a total of 69 more g of protein.. since i reduced my amt of cott cheese from 3.5 servings to 2 at nite i never made up those cal so i ran the diet reducing oats fr 2 servings of 3/4 C each down to 2 servings at 1/4 C each and the yam from 5 oz pre w/o down to 4 oz and added 2 scoops whey at breakfast and 1 additional scoop pwo ..

puts total daily macros to:2298/324/101/56 59%P/18%C/23%F

what do yall think bout that?

----------


## gbrice75

Not bad. In this case I don't mind fat being over 20% (slightly) because carbs are so low. i.e. there are only 3 macros to play with, and if one is already low it will be tough to get the other 2 low unless overall calories are extremely low. I also don't think reducing fats and upping protein is the answer, so stay where you're ate for now.

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok cool thatll be the plan startn tomorrow... i may be incorrect but dont some people do better with fats than carbs and vice versa? im thinking i may be a "do better with fats " person..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well another day down.. Hit it hard today.. 45min am fasted cardio/legs(at lunch)/45min pm cardio.. Needless to say i will be sleeping well tonite and have day off work tomorrow so i can sleep in .. The scale and the calipers tell me im losing fat but no real sign in the mirror yet.. My pants however are fitting normally again instead of so tight i have to wear them unbuttoned  :Smilie:  so tats a good thing ..

Total Daily Macros:2298/262/161/62

----------


## Back In Black

Ha ha, yeah pants are one of the best measures in the early days. Just wait til your watch starts getting too big for you!

As for knowing whether your body prefers 3 x 33g or 2 x 50g, that's trial and error based around your workout and how hard you are able to hit them. If 50g prior enables more intense workouts then that's the way you should go. If 2 meals prior at 33g works best, then go with that approach. See, already starting to experiment and only 2 weeks in!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well i had a post and lost it.. Need to learn how to better navigate with iphone on here.. Anyways to get to the point.. Did 45 min cardio today and hit it pretty hard.. Been on weighing kik lately so i weighd this am and was 206.6..: chekd sundays post and was rite.. I weighd 208.6 on sunday so thats 2 lbs in 48 hrs.. Now tats wat im talkn bout!! Had a question though.. Last nite i spent an hr goin thru baselines progrezs post and he said he didnt wanna lose fat at rate faster than 2lbs/week.. Was curious as to why?? (maybe cuz of LBM?) and wondered if tat also applied to wat i needed to do???? Thx guys.. Hope yAll r havn a good day  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

GB i was a little confused by ur post 153 .. U Said not bad to my idea of reducing carbs to 100g/day then at the end u said stay where ur at for now.. Did u mean where im at as in 160g carbs like i have been doing or where im at with 100g carbs and the little extra protein in meal 1 and pwo???

----------


## gbrice75

> Last nite i spent an hr goin thru baselines progrezs post and he said he didnt wanna lose fat at rate faster than 2lbs/week.. Was curious as to why?? (maybe cuz of LBM?)


Bingo. 2lbs/week is pretty widely accepted as the standard 'max' once dialed in. i.e. in the beginning you may lose 4-6lbs a week, as some will be water and fat will burn quicker as well. Once things 'settle', burning more than 2lbs a week COULD be an indication that LBM is being burned. It's not a 100% guarantee, but better to play it on the safe side. 2lbs/week of fat is PHENOMENAL! 




> GB i was a little confused by ur post 153 .. U Said not bad to my idea of reducing carbs to 100g/day then at the end u said stay where ur at for now.. Did u mean where im at as in 160g carbs like i have been doing or where im at with 100g carbs and the little extra protein in meal 1 and pwo???


I was just going based on the totals you provided above my post. You said you came out at 2298/324/101/56 59%P/18%C/23%F - I was commenting specifically on fat being over 20% which I usually don't like, but because carbs are already at 100g, there's really not much else to play with to bring fats down. it's either carbs up/fats down, or vice versa. Protein is already at 324g which is PLENTY. No need to overeat protein either.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ok so i guess keep rolling like i am now che king bf once a week to keep an eye on LBm and as long as its stayn relatively the same no need to change? But if i start losing lbm then i may need to raise cals?? It seems to that reducing total cals from carbs only and keeping protein high would not put lbm at risk?? Or do carbs also help the body maintain lbm and if so how much of a role do they play?? And also if i were to be losing lbm at 320g protein/day where would u recommend the calories should come from to preserve lbm??

----------


## --->>405<<---

Day off from work threw me off a bit.. Short bout 200 cals.. Total daily macros:2089/263/141/46

----------


## gbrice75

> Ok so i guess keep rolling like i am now che king bf once a week to keep an eye on LBm and as long as its stayn relatively the same no need to change?


yep




> But *if i start losing lbm* then i may need to raise cals??


You won't




> It seems to that reducing total cals from carbs only and keeping protein high would not put lbm at risk?? Or do carbs also help the body maintain lbm and if so how much of a role do they play??


Carbs and fats have LBM/protein sparing properties. In your case, protein is high, carbs and fats are moderate - you have nothing to worry about.




> And also *if i were to be losing lbm at 320g protein/day* where would u recommend the calories should come from to preserve lbm??


You won't  :Wink: 




> Day off from work threw me off a bit.. Short bout 200 cals.. Total daily macros:2089/263/141/46


^^^ no worries. Probably will do you good if anything.

----------


## Fit N Fun

405,

Your story makes a great read, your dedication is impressive.

Wanted to send you some moral support to keep at it.

I use Tanita scales to monitor my LBM, Water% and fat%, weigh myself once a week at the same time, it makes a great read to look at the progress and you can see how individual parts of your body change since it outputs for each arm, leg and trunk.

Never done an ECA stack never liked the sound of what it does to your body.

Not suggesting you should consider, but cycled quite a few times on Test + Deca and this makes the fat loss & muscle build sooooo much easier for me.

Really interested to see if carb cycling works for you. I always find eating a clean diet hard enough without the complication of cycling carbs.

Keep up the good work, feel like good things are going to happen for you.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Hey thx fit i really appreciate ur support ... I tell u knowing i have to get on here everyday and report my progress(or lack thereof) helps me push myself harder.. As for the carb cycle i am lookn forward to doing it too but im gonna give it a little more time before i do as instructed by my "coaches"  :Smilie:  SteM and GB.. Those guys really inspire me too cuz they dont have to devote their time everyday to help people like me... Well today begins the carb reduction down to 100g.. I also bougjt some BodyMortar(anyone heard of it) which is a BCAA that i had to chug rite before my 45 min fasted cardio which i just finished doing...I have a 1300 start at work so i now have to go and do my chest and back wkout... im beginning to wonder if maybe i should revise my workout plan as follows:

Mon:legs
Wed:chest
Thu:back
Sat:shoulders/arms

This was ill have a full day to devote to chest and back.. Stem and gb wat do yall think bout tat??

----------


## RaginCajun

> Hey thx fit i really appreciate ur support ... I tell u knowing i *have to get on here everyday and report my progress(or lack thereof) helps me push myself harder*.. As for the carb cycle i am lookn forward to doing it too but im gonna give it a little more time before i do as instructed by my "coaches"  SteM and GB.. Those guys really inspire me too cuz they dont have to devote their time everyday to help people like me... Well today begins the carb reduction down to 100g.. I also bougjt some BodyMortar(anyone heard of it) which is a BCAA that i had to chug rite before my 45 min fasted cardio which i just finished doing...I have a 1300 start at work so i now have to go and do my chest and back wkout... im beginning to wonder if maybe i should revise my workout plan as follows:
> 
> Mon:legs
> Wed:chest
> Thu:back
> Sat:shoulders/arms
> 
> This was ill have a full day to devote to chest and back.. Stem and gb wat do yall think bout tat??


the bold, i totally agree!!! if you are having progress right now, just keep on keepin on! like they say, if it ain't broke........... can't wait to see what happens when the carb cycling comes. i have been doing it, but not strict enough, and i can see some changes. in your workouts, what types of exercises are you doing for each and how much, reps/sets?

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i have puter rite now so ill take advantage of it.. 

legs: squat 4 x 10 (135,185,225,275)
leg press 4 x 15 (500,680,770,860)
leg ext 4 x 15( new to this so like 90,100,110,120)
leg curl 4 x 15(new to this.. 40,60,80,90)
standing calf 4 x 15(i think like 250..all the weight on machine)

chest :Big Grin: B flat bench 20 rep warmup 45lb dbs
15 rep (75lb dbs)
10 rep (90lb dbs)
6 rep (110 lb dbs)

incline DB bench 10 x 45lb db
10 x 55lb db
10 x 65lb db
as many as i can 70lb db

cables lying down 15 x 20lb
15 x 30 lb
15 x 20 lb
failure x 10 lb

pec deck: 15 x 50lb
15 x 60lb
15 x 70lb
15 x 60lb

back: bent reverse DB flyes 10 x 30
10 x 35
10 x 40
10 x 40

t bar rows 10 x 125
10 x 150
10 x 175
8 x 175

seated cable row 12 x 100
12 x 125
12 x 150
12 x 150

lat pulldown(wide grip just started) 8 x 130
8 x 140
8 x 160
8 x 170

shoulders: standing mil press : 10 x 95
10 x 115
10 x 135
8 x 155

DB shoulder flyes 10 x 25lb db
10 x 30lb db
10 x 35 lb db
10 x 40 lb db

upright row 10 x 55
10 x 65
 10 x 75
10 x 95

behind back shoulder cable 10 x 10lb
10 x 20lb
10 x 30 lb
10 x 20 lb

arms: standing BB curl 15 x 50 lb
15 x 70 lb
15 x 50lb
failure x 50 lb

cable curl : 10 x 80
10 x 100
10 x 120
failure x 80

DB curl failure x 25/ 4 sets


tris: close grip bench(new) 10 x 85
10 x 135
10 x 135
10 x 135

1 hand pushdown failure x 60 (usually 25reps)
failure x 40 (25reps?)
failure x 20 (25reps?)
SUPERSET THESE 3 AND DO 3/4 SUPERSETS

that pretty much sums it up.. only have like 45 mins usually so i do alot of supersets.. once i get bf down below 12% i may change the supersetting thing up..

----------


## Fit N Fun

Fantastic workout log 405.

Would love to see your new Macros for 100g carbs per day if it was not too much trouble to write it out

----------


## Back In Black

> Hey thx fit i really appreciate ur support ... I tell u knowing i have to get on here everyday and report my progress(or lack thereof) helps me push myself harder.. As for the carb cycle i am lookn forward to doing it too but im gonna give it a little more time before i do as instructed by my "coaches"  SteM and GB.. Those guys really inspire me too cuz they dont have to devote their time everyday to help people like me... Well today begins the carb reduction down to 100g.. I also bougjt some BodyMortar(anyone heard of it) which is a BCAA that i had to chug rite before my 45 min fasted cardio which i just finished doing...I have a 1300 start at work so i now have to go and do my chest and back wkout... im beginning to wonder if maybe i should revise my workout plan as follows:
> 
> Mon:legs
> Wed:chest
> Thu:back
> Sat:shoulders/arms
> 
> This was ill have a full day to devote to chest and back.. Stem and gb wat do yall think bout tat??


It's pretty much what my 4 day split looks like. Though I do bi's after chest and tri's after legs. And abs? Mine go in with my back workout.

*Check the nutrition label on the bodymortar BCAA's. Does it tell you it contains 120 cals all from carbs?*

----------


## Back In Black

Excellent news on the weight loss. I agree 2lbs a week after the first week or 2 is ideal. As your bodyfat reduces your losses may even drop to 1 or 0.5lbs a week. But a loss is a loss and they all add up!

As for your workout can you explain back - bent reverse dumbell flyes and shoulders - behind back cable? Are they the same exercise, to hit rear delts?

And your db shoulder flyes are lateral raises? If so, you are pretty much duplicating this with upright rows. I'd pick one, not both.

WHy did you drop the Romanian Dead lifts? I would argue far superior for overall posterior chain development than leg curls.

Also, too many isolation exercises for chest. 4 incl press, 4 flat press and 4 incline cable flyes is plenty for you.

Also, your rep ranges appear quite random. Is this a particular plan?

Have to say, with the exception of legs, all my workouts on a cutting regime are done in 45 mins. No supersets, just focusing on strength maintenance and possibly even a little muscle building. So, when you need a change up from supersetting, let me know.

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok stem .. i need a changeup from supersetting  :Smilie:  ive done alot of lifting but i dont have good skill in how to lift per se.. would love to get a workout from u if u dont mind.. reverse flyes are done bent over (like a row except a fly reverse with dbs)

also the body mortar i have is carb free... 

the behind back shoulder cable is done standing kind of duplicating lateral raises except with a cable and the starting position is hand behind the back raising up like a lateral raise..

whats a posterior chain? LOL

i guess all in all i need an organized workout..  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

SURE THING FIT HERE GOES:

2298cal/324P/101C/56F

08:00 MEAL 1: 3oz shrimp
1 whole egg
4 egg whites
1/4 C oats (1 tbs sugar free jam)
2 scoop whey(mixed w/H2o)

10:00 MEAL 2:5oz chick breast
broccoli(1 cup)
4 oz yam

LIFT(NOON)

13:00 MEAL 3 :Frown: PWO) 3 scoops whey
1/4 C oats(1 tbs sugar free jam)

14:30 MEAL 4: 6 oz burger(96/4 fat)
1C broccoli

17:30 MEAL 5: 2 cans tuna (in water)
asparagus
1 tsp evoo

20:30 MEAL 6: 2 tbs natty PB
1 C 2% cottage cheese

and thats it..

----------


## --->>405<<---

WeLl another day down... Been a long one.. Not a fan of 1300 starts... Funny how it throws off everything.. I live 40 mins from work and as i was getting to the gym (by my work) today to lift b4 work i realized i left all my food at home!! Wat a bummer.. So instead of lifting i had to go to the grocery store and bought a pound of 96/4 ground beef, a bag of frozen broccoli, and 2 cans of tuna and headed to my moms house to cook the burger.. On a side note is it ok to chop up like some onion and put it in the ground beef?? Didnt chk the carbs for it.. Only used like 1/6 of a small onion.. Anyways so i got it cookd and cookd some oatmeal and fixd the tuna and broccoli and managed to get close to my goal macros.. I did err to the side of less calories and carbs so i guess thats better than over?? I tell u for a sec there i didnt know what i was gonna do without my food bag  :Smilie:  also i did get lift session in just had to wait til 16:30 to do it.. Did chest only.. Hqd a good workout.. SO all's well tat ends well i suppose.. 

Total Daily Macros:2069/298/83/50 
Didnt feel hungry or deprived either..

----------


## Fit N Fun

> 17:30 MEAL 5: 2 cans tuna (in water)
> asparagus
> 
> *1 tsp evoo*
> 
> 
> 
> and thats it..


 Your macros look really good.

So do you just drink water through the day ............ no tea or coffee?

I wonder if you would be better with a mixture of Flax Seed oil and EVOO.

Olive oil is on average 10% linoleic acid (an omega-6 oil) and less than 1% linolenic acid (an omega-3 oil), therefore the ratio is 10:1 on average.

Good health requires the right ratio of Omega 3 fatty acids to Omega 6 fatty acids in the diet. The ideal ratio is around 1:2, = twice the volume of Omega 6 to Omega 3.

The ratio present in Flaxseed oil is about 4:1. So flaxseed oil is a good source of Omega 3

Clearly the tins of Tuna are providing Omega 3, so maybe a mix of EVOO and Flax oil might be the answer.

Hopefully others can chime in on this, its a small part of your diet, but might be important over the longer term

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well actually i drink 34 oz coffee black with stevia in the morning most days and i also prob average 2/12 oz diet mt dews/ day and then everything else is water.. Prob a gallon/day...

As far as the evoo yeh i dont know anything about omega 3vs omega 6 .. I can get some fish oil caps and take like what? 2 twice a day od something?? 

Also my wife told me this morning "your belly is going away" ...YAY!!! 1st comment from her.. My bro was telln me yesterday i was lookn good.. So people r startn to notice a little bit  :Smilie: 

Bout to do my 45 min fasted cardio.. Drank body mortar BCAA and figd id give it like 15 mins since i have the time.. Ill get the stats off the container while i wait and post them..

Calories 0
Fat 0 
Cholest 0
Carbs 0
Fiber 0
Sugars 0
Protein 0

BCAA
L-Leucine 7g
L-Isoleucine 1.75g
L-Valine 1.75g

Revival Agent
Glutamine 2.5g

This is all in 1 scoop which is how much i take

30 servings/container

----------


## SlimmerMe

> *Also my wife told me this morning "your belly is going away" ...YAY!!! 1st comment from her.. My bro was telln me yesterday i was lookn good.. So people r startn to notice a little bit 
> *


Bet this felt great to hear!

----------


## gbrice75

> I wonder if you would be better with a mixture of Flax Seed oil and EVOO.
> 
> Olive oil is on average 10% linoleic acid (an omega-6 oil) and less than 1% linolenic acid (an omega-3 oil), therefore the ratio is 10:1 on average.
> 
> Good health requires the right ratio of Omega 3 fatty acids to Omega 6 fatty acids in the diet. The ideal ratio is around 1:2, = twice the volume of Omega 6 to Omega 3.
> 
> The ratio present in Flaxseed oil is about 4:1. So flaxseed oil is a good source of Omega 3


Actually, despite popular belief/opinion, flax is a relatively poor choice of Omega 3 as the conversion to EPA/DHA is minimal. Stick with fish oils and you can't go wrong!  :Wink:

----------


## RaginCajun

glad to here the wifey making comments. looking from your workouts, you are beast! you are right on track my man, just keep it up!

----------


## Back In Black

> Actually, despite popular belief/opinion, flax is a relatively poor choice of Omega 3 as the conversion to EPA/DHA is minimal. Stick with fish oils and you can't go wrong!


Agreed, but factor them in to your macro's. Actually rapeseed oil (called canola I think in the States) has 10 times more omega 3 than evoo. And a more preferable taste.

----------


## Back In Black

> ok stem .. i need a changeup from supersetting  ive done alot of lifting but i dont have good skill in how to lift per se.. would love to get a workout from u if u dont mind.. reverse flyes are done bent over (like a row except a fly reverse with dbs) *I'll PM you something in the next couple of days.*
> 
> also the body mortar i have is carb free... 
> 
> the behind back shoulder cable is done standing kind of duplicating lateral raises except with a cable and the starting position is hand behind the back raising up like a lateral raise..
> 
> whats a posterior chain? LOL *The muscles that act almost like a link in the rear of the body so on RDL's - Hammy's, lower back, erector spinae and traps/shoulder girdle.*
> 
> i guess all in all i need an organized workout..


So pleased people are noticing your changes.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Hey cajun thx for the encouragement man.. Stem im looking forward to the PM.. GB will Ny fish oil do?? 

Well today was N off day and i obviously dont do well on off days or days where my schedule is difft than 0800 or 0700 start.. Didnt hit macros again.. But once again i was low.. It takes about a 14 hr day to eat all 6 meals LOL.. I hope being short doesnt mess up my progress.. I could pig out befire bed but im thnkn id be better off to be a tad short?? Protein is up there semi close.. This is the last day of being short tTs for sure.. Tomorrow 0800 start.. Bak oj track hard.. Back workout tomorrow as well as am fasted cardio.. See yall tomorrow..

Total Daily Macros:1900/253/80/54. 56%P/17%C/27%F

----------


## gbrice75

Look for fish oils with the highest concentration of Omega-3's... they are definitely not all created equal. 

Loving the total daily macros bro... fat a bit high, carbs a bit low... but no worries as calories are sufficiently low.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well another day has begun.. got in 45 min fasted cardio and diet is on trak for the day.. lbs keep dropping ill be posting it up again on sunday.. another week from sunday if things keep going this well ill prob post a pic.. i can see a difference in the mirror and can feel a diff in my clothes.. GB ur really lookn good man..im hoping before the summer ill be close to where ur at now.. i think u and i started off relatively the same if u dont mind would u post ur beginning stats (or a ruff estimate on here for me) as well as ur current stats? just curious .. i was thinking since i have back,shoulders and bis and tris left for the week and only 2 days to get it all dun i mite do back and either bis or tris today then shoulders and the other one tomorrow.. was thinking tris since i dont use them in back too much.. wat do yall think.. back/tris today...tomorrow shoulders/bis??

----------


## gbrice75

> well another day has begun.. got in 45 min fasted cardio and diet is on trak for the day.. lbs keep dropping ill be posting it up again on sunday.. another week from sunday if things keep going this well ill prob post a pic.. i can see a difference in the mirror and can feel a diff in my clothes..


Awesome!!! Always feels good to report positive news, right?  :Wink: 




> GB ur really lookn good man..im hoping before the summer ill be close to where ur at now..


Thanks buddy, appreciate that. 




> i think u and i started off relatively the same if u dont mind would u post ur beginning stats (or a ruff estimate on here for me) as well as ur current stats? just curious


Beginning stats 5'11 255lbs 30% + bodyfat. Unfortunately I don't have any pics of me from then (at least not without clothes/posing) as I was mortified to be in front of a camera. Mind you, once I started dieting i've gone up, down, and sideways with regards to weight and bodyfat. That's a mistake and waste of time i'm trying to help you avoid making via my own experience. If I had done things right, I probably could have looked close to what I look like now in a year rather than 3 years... and by THIS time i'd probably have much closer to the look I really desire....

Current stats are 5'11 190lbs (dry) < > 11% bodyfat. Walking around weight is about 196lbs currently. Short term goal is to stay above 190lbs and reduce bodyfat to single digit. At that point, i'd like to add lean mass (keeping bodyfat at or under 10%) and hit the 200lb mark.




> i was thinking since i have back,shoulders and bis and tris left for the week and only 2 days to get it all dun i mite do back and either bis or tris today then shoulders and the other one tomorrow.. was thinking tris since i dont use them in back too much.. wat do yall think.. back/tris today...tomorrow shoulders/bis??


Back/Bi's, then Shoulders/Tri's. Back/Bi exercises work similar muscle groups (try close grip/palms touching chin ups to work both the back and bi's simultaneously). Dumbbell rows with palms facing up is another good one.

Shoulders/Tri's are also related. Shoulder press for instance certainly uses alot of the tricep on the way up, and to stabilize on the way down.

----------


## --->>405<<---

man GB i tell u 65 lbs and 20 or so % bf drop is great man.. u didnt have any prob i see with ur skin looking loose or anything like that.. ?? i was wondering that about myself.. 

well i did like u said gb and did back and bis today.. went pretty well.. my chest is still really sore from wed which is unusual for me cuz i never get sore.. i did hit it really hard.. did some DB flyes(flat) which i havent dun in like 2 yrs.. i like being sore cuz it tells me i must be doing someth esp cuz i never get that way.. devoted entire wkout to chest whcih is also someth i never did.. i think maybe this new split of 4 days/week will allow me to work each muscle gruop alot better.. tomorrow will be shoulders and tris.. 

SteM if u could explain in ur PM wat u mean about how i have too many isolation exercises id appreciate that.. ni thought the more exercises u did / body part the better??

----------


## gbrice75

> man GB i tell u 65 lbs and 20 or so % bf drop is great man.. u didnt have any prob i see with ur skin looking loose or anything like that.. ?? i was wondering that about myself..


Thanks bro. Nah, I definitely had/have problems with loose skin. If you look closely at my avy (I don't even need to look closely, lol), you'll see my stomach looks all fvcked up with stretch marks and crap... i.e. it's not very smooth. Also, you clearly cannot see the bottom of my abs although my bodyfat is low enough to allow veins to show all over my upper body. I even have visible veins running down both obliques, yet cannot get the bottom of my abs to pop - some fat, some loose skin.

Hopefully, over time, between cardio and building the muscle underneath, i'll be able to get everything there tightened up. It's one of the few things left on me that I truly HATE, and one of the reasons I still cringe when I post pics up here.




> SteM if u could explain in ur PM wat u mean about how i have too many isolation exercises id appreciate that.. ni thought *the more exercises u did / body part the better??*


Stem can elaborate on his comment, but bro, as for the bold - ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Quality over quantity, ALWAYS. 

There are some guys who will do ONE SINGLE working set per muscle group. I would not recommend this to you (nor to 99% of the people on this board) as the only way that will work is when you train with EXTREME intensity.... intensity like most of us will never know. These guys also usually add in some advanced techniques - drop sets, forced reps, rest/pause, static holds, etc. 

IMO - pick your 'meat and potatoes' exercise per muscle group - i.e. bench press for chest for instance, squats for legs - and then add in a supplemental exercise or 2 at most IMO - and kill them all when you do them. Doing too much can lead to overtraining. If more was always better, why not do 200 reps per exercise? I'm sure you're picking up what i'm putting down...

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## --->>405<<---

ok GB now when u say "kill them all" do u mean like for chest say pick 3 exercises and just do those 3 that day but try to get in like 6 sets/exercise kind of deal?? like 6 sets DB bench and 6 sets cables and 6 sets dips..and then thats it? i tell u one thing..that will sure make working out ALOT easier.. instead of bouncing around and around and around the whole gym...

well todays over.. not much to say other than i hit my intended macros finally .. sunday will be weigh in day as well as wife puts the calipers on me day.. its only been one week instead of two this time.. hoping i see some progress bf% wise.. think i should.. this week has seemed to go by not so quikly.. i will say ive almost forgotten what its like to eat pizza and chicken wings  :Smilie:  and i still have 16 more days til i get a cheat meal!!tat makes me like halfway... AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

1.eggs oatmeal chikn yam broccoli protein powder oatmeal burger broccoli tuna asparagus cottage cheese Nat PB

2.eggs oatmeal chikn yam broccoli protein powder oatmeal burger broccoli tuna asparagus cottage cheese Nat PB

3.eggs oatmeal chikn yam broccoli protein powder oatmeal burger broccoli tuna asparagus cottage cheese Nat PB

4.eggs oatmeal chikn yam broccoli protein powder oatmeal burger broccoli tuna asparagus cottage cheese Nat PB

5.eggs oatmeal chikn yam broccoli protein powder oatmeal burger broccoli tuna asparagus cottage cheese Nat PB

6.eggs oatmeal chikn yam broccoli protein powder oatmeal burger broccoli tuna asparagus cottage cheese Nat PB

7.eggs oatmeal chikn yam broccoli protein powder oatmeal burger broccoli tuna asparagus cottage cheese Nat PB

8.eggs oatmeal chikn yam broccoli protein powder oatmeal burger broccoli tuna asparagus cottage cheese Nat PB

9.eggs oatmeal chikn yam broccoli protein powder oatmeal burger broccoli tuna asparagus cottage cheese Nat PB

10.eggs oatmeal chikn yam broccoli protein powder oatmeal burger broccoli tuna asparagus cottage cheese Nat PB

11.eggs oatmeal chikn yam broccoli protein powder oatmeal burger broccoli tuna asparagus cottage cheese Nat PB

12.eggs oatmeal chikn yam broccoli protein powder oatmeal burger broccoli tuna asparagus cottage cheese Nat PB

13.eggs oatmeal chikn yam broccoli protein powder oatmeal burger broccoli tuna asparagus cottage cheese Nat PB

14.eggs oatmeal chikn yam broccoli protein powder oatmeal burger broccoli tuna asparagus cottage cheese Nat PB

15.eggs oatmeal chikn yam broccoli protein powder oatmeal burger broccoli tuna asparagus cottage cheese Nat PB

16.eggs oatmeal chikn yam broccoli protein powder oatmeal burger broccoli tuna asparagus cottage cheese Nat PB

17.eggs oatmeal chikn yam broccoli protein powder oatmeal burger broccoli tuna asparagus cottage cheese Nat PB

18.eggs oatmeal chikn yam broccoli protein powder oatmeal burger broccoli tuna asparagus cottage cheese Nat PB

19.eggs oatmeal chikn yam broccoli protein powder oatmeal burger broccoli tuna asparagus cottage cheese Nat PB

Total Daily Macros:2304/318/105/57 58%P/19%C/23%F

PS..sorry bout the vent... had to be dun..  :Smilie:

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## --->>405<<---

total daily macros : 2304/318/105/57

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## gbrice75

^^ awesome-ness

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## --->>405<<---

Hey GB when u get a chance would u chk the first paragraph of post 186 to see if my understNding is correct?? Thx man .. Bout to do 45 min fasted cardio again.. Think this will be 5/6 days fasted cardio this week.. I weighed this am and wasnt gonna post it til tomorrow but it came in at 205.2. Thats 3.4 lbs in 6 days.. Which in one sense is awesome!! As long as its not lbm... Been a tad low on cals like 3 days this week.. Im hoping since im still over 20% bf it was all fat.. Will wait til tomorrow to get calipers dun.. Maybe ill be at 204 by then  :Smilie:

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## SlimmerMe

Looking better and better. Keep it up! I bet you feel better too.

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## Back In Black

[QUOTE=--->>405<<---;5776711]ok GB now when u say "kill them all" do u mean like for chest say pick 3 exercises and just do those 3 that day but try to get in like 6 sets/exercise kind of deal?? like 6 sets DB bench and 6 sets cables and 6 sets dips..and then thats it? i tell u one thing..that will sure make working out ALOT easier.. instead of bouncing around and around and around the whole gym...QUOTE]

You have a PM.

Most definitely QUALITY over quantity. Look at most the guys in your gym who have 10 different exercises for biceps and chest. Are most, if any, of them impressive? I doubt it. As for killing every set, I agree. That is failure on every single set where possible. If you use dumbells and/or a power rack there shouldn't really be any exercise that you can't fail on.

Essential that you keep a log of weights, sets and reps so you know you are progressing every single time you hit the gym.

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## gbrice75

> Essential that you keep a log of weights, sets and reps so you know you are progressing every single time you hit the gym.


x2. And with phone apps these days, there's absolutely no excuse not to, it's so easy. Laziness is the only reason one wouldn't do it IMO.

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## --->>405<<---

Ok cool.. Yall got a phone app recommendation???

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## gbrice75

When I say kill it, I just mean for however many sets you do, make sure you go all out 'balls to the wall' - i.e. make every rep count. You should be near death when you leave that gym. That's intensity.

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## --->>405<<---

Gotcha...been thinking bout my cheat meal today...6 chikn wings,2pieces double pepperoni pizza,75/25% bacon cheeseburger,2 good hotdogs, fries, and a big piece of red velvet cake with a big glass of milk...lol...hows tat sound??i know its a tad gluttonous...those r pretty much all the things im craving rite now except for some smoked baby back ribs and deviled egg potato salad...dont thimk id have room for all tat..yall thimk tats too much??? I still have 15days to go as well...

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## gbrice75

lol, damn dude, you have a mind like me when it comes to cheating!!!

Honestly, yea, I think it's too much. I say grab all you can in one sitting (no way you can do ALL of that at once) and call it a day. Last night I had a slice of deep dish pizza, 4 large-ish chocolate chip cookies, multiple 'guzzles' of skim milk (from the container, i'm the only one who uses it lol), and a bunch of 'fruit cookies' - fig newton style. Feeling it today though, ugh!  :Frown:

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## --->>405<<---

LOL ok so however much i can eat in one sitting..?? I was actually referring all that in one sitting ezcept the ribs and pot salad..  :Smilie:  how bout 10 chk wings and 2 pieces of pizza?? LOL and a piece of cake?? I can eat alot...

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## --->>405<<---

These wings will be grilled btw.. On my grill

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## AaronJM1984

Just finished reading your log so far, looks good! Good work so far, keep it up!

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## gbrice75

> LOL ok so however much i can eat in one sitting..?? I was actually referring all that in one sitting ezcept the ribs and pot salad..  how bout 10 chk wings and 2 pieces of pizza?? LOL and a piece of cake?? I can eat alot...


You already know how I feel about cheat meals for you, for now. But if you're gonna do it (and it sounds like you are), this doesn't sound all that bad.

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## gbrice75

ps - do you have a workout scheduled for tomorrow? If so, what does it entail?

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## --->>405<<---

I would say stick with your diet 100% dedication for 30 days. If you can do that, reward yourself with a really nice cheat meal, whatever you want. Ideally have the meal the day/early evening before your most intense workout, such as legs. That will at least offset the massive overfeed and put some of those calories to good use. 

that was oct 1.. so the cheat meal i was talking about is scheduled for oct 30  :Smilie: i started on sept 28 so that would be my 33rd day.. Now that said do u think the 10 wings and 2 pieces of pizza will be ok after 33 days of 100% dedication to my diet??

So November 1st (around that date) has a nice meal waiting for you if you stick to this plan, and I know you can!!!!  :Wink: [/QUOTE]

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## --->>405<<---

my skills rnt that good on here yet GB but that first sentence in post 202 was what u said to me the rest is what i just said rite now..  :Smilie:  hope its not too confusing

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## GirlyGymRat

> well i have puter rite now so ill take advantage of it.. 
> 
> Legs: Squat 4 x 10 (135,185,225,275)
> leg press 4 x 15 (500,680,770,860)
> leg ext 4 x 15( new to this so like 90,100,110,120)
> leg curl 4 x 15(new to this.. 40,60,80,90)
> standing calf 4 x 15(i think like 250..all the weight on machine)
> 
> chest:db flat bench 20 rep warmup 45lb dbs
> ...


impressive workout...in 45 minutes...nice

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## gbrice75

> that was oct 1.. so the cheat meal i was talking about is scheduled for oct 30 i started on sept 28 so that would be my 33rd day.. Now that said do u think the 10 wings and 2 pieces of pizza will be ok after 33 days of 100% dedication to my diet??


Noted.... and yep!  :Wink:

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## --->>405<<---

Thx girly but i dont do tat all in one wkout  :Smilie: 

Total Daily Macros(late nite at work):
2298/324/101/56. 59%P/18%C/23%F

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## --->>405<<---

Oh 1 last thing.. U know i usually wk out at lunch.. Well today i had to wait til 6pm so when. I got 2 the gym it was closed.. They close at 5pm on sats.. No shoulders and tris for me today.. I did get my cardio.. I guess i need to do them mon instead of legs.. Well ill prob work sun nite so i prob wont get to the gym again til tues.. So i do shoulders tue then on wed start my week over i guess.. So ill be in gym tue wed thu fri sat just to stay caught up..See yall tomorrow(today)

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## GirlyGymRat

> Thx girly but i *dont do tat all in one wkout* 
> 
> Total Daily Macros(late nite at work):
> 2298/324/101/56. 59%P/18%C/23%F


oh....I was wondering just how super your sets ; ) LOL

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## --->>405<<---

Well another weigh-in.. On one side im happy but the other i not so sure.. May need some help.. I do realize the calipers arent extremely accurate (after seeing the diff between them and the bod pod.. 5%bf difference) 

Weight this am..204.6
Weight last sunday..208.6
Diff of 4lbs ..

Bf last week - 20.5%
this week- 19.99% = .5% bf drop

LBM last week= 75.23
this week= 74.24

1kg LBm lost.. 

Beginning LBm(3 weeks ago)=75.48
now=74.24.... 1.24kgs total lbm lost in 3 weeks 
2.57kgs fat lost in 3 weeks

Is this acceptable?? If not HELP!!!!!

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## --->>405<<---

Oh one more thing.. Beginning bf (3 weeks ago) 21.87
Current bf. 19.99 = 1.88% drop in bf in 3 weeks

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## Back In Black

Caliper readings are normally out from week to week slightly, even for those who have mastered the art. Is it a 9 site reading you are basing the caliper readings on?

And if you've dropped 2% in 3 weeks that is pretty damn awesome.

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## --->>405<<---

7 site.. Thx SteM.. Just keep rolling?? No changes??

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## --->>405<<---

It seems also most of thr drop is from thigh and supraillAc and subscapular.. Chest tricep stomach all still thr same

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## --->>405<<---

Ahh and ive lost from thr one by ur hip kinda.. Between the love handle amd the bellybutton

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## gbrice75

Drop is a drop! 7 site is decent, do 9 if possible. 

Fat loss is not linear. It will not be consistent, and will not all come from the same area. e.g. if you were to measure me from the middle abs up, i'd probably come in at 9%. Factor in my lower abdomen/hips/arse, and that puts me well over 10%, probably bordering on 12.

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## --->>405<<---

Yeh I gotcha.. Well i suppose all in all im doing well then losing almost 9 lbs in 3 weeks.. Maybe in 3 more weeks ill really get to see a difference  :Smilie:

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## gbrice75

3lbs/week average is awesome. At that rate, in 3 more weeks you will UNDOUBTEDLY see a difference. 18lbs.... WHAT!!!??  :Smilie:

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## SlimmerMe

> Yeh I gotcha.. *Well i suppose all in all im doing well then losing almost 9 lbs in 3 weeks.*. Maybe in 3 more weeks ill really get to see a difference


This is wonderful to hear 405. And thanks for dropping by my thread....

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## --->>405<<---

hey slim ur welcome  :Smilie:  well not much else to report today..off day.. am fasted cardio tomorrow.. i tell u i think i actually missed doing it today (am cardio) in a weird way.. maybe cuz i see how much its helping my fatloss.. anyways.. 

Total Daily Macros:2223/334/97/44 63%P/18%C/18%F

oh yeh GB tomorrow is my birthday(where u denied me cake  :Smilie:  37... man they just keep coming and coming dont they?? oh and also my wife is giving me crap cuz she and her parents wanted to take me out to dinner but she told them i couldnt go "because of my diet"  :Smilie:  i think shes a little frustrated with it cuz we used to eat good and now i dont ever cook .. i dont think she really cares if im fat.. i still lookd ok with clothes on cuz my frame is nice but i hate being fat so.. 

i told her once i get to where i wanna be ill be able (hopefully) to make some minor adjustments in the variety of food i eat but until then im not changing a thing!

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## SlimmerMe

Keep your eye on the prize and your wife will end up loving you for sticking to your program.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

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## Fit N Fun

> Oh one more thing.. Beginning bf (3 weeks ago) 21.87
> Current bf. 19.99 = 1.88% drop in bf in 3 weeks


405,

Here is a bit of reading for you on calipers vs segmental body composition scales http://www.tanita.co.uk/index.php?id=129

Here is a link to the segmental body composition scales I use http://www.tanita.co.uk/index.php?id=18&L=0&tx_f03showxtcommerceproducts_p i1[showUid]=535&cHash=bde7fc06d9

I use the BC-558, they may have been superceeded by the BC-601, but they do take much of the chance out of the caliper readings.

I have seen gym's with professional versions of the same equipment, so you might get access to one if you phone around. I got mine off eBay, so that might be worth a try too.

Keep up the good work, really impressed with your dedication

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## --->>405<<---

HEY thx fit.. Actually i found a "bod pod" rite by where i work so tat really helps out alot.. I dont know if u are familiar w bod pods but they are some egg looking thing u sit in ur underwear in and it seals and changes the pressure inside and tells u ur bf %.. According to my bodubuilder friend its the most accurate form of bf measuring to date.. Costs like 35$ amd takes about 20 mins.. I get wife to do calipers just to keepnan eye on it between visits which i plan on doing once a month..: 

Did 45 min fasted cardio and now i have to go buy a new car and then Make up shoulders and tris from sat.. Gonna be a busy day...

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## gbrice75

> oh yeh GB tomorrow is my birthday(where u denied me cake  37... man they just keep coming and coming dont they?? oh and also my wife is giving me crap cuz she and her parents wanted to take me out to dinner but she told them i couldnt go "because of my diet"  i think shes a little frustrated with it cuz we used to eat good and now i dont ever cook .. i dont think she really cares if im fat.. i still lookd ok with clothes on cuz my frame is nice but i hate being fat so.. 
> 
> i told her once i get to where i wanna be ill be able (hopefully) to make some minor adjustments in the variety of food i eat but until then im not changing a thing!


lol i'm sorry man!!! However I think you could still go out to dinner; there are enough healthy choices to make where you won't be derailed. Not a huge deal if you don't eat your EXACT diet for one night IMO. We're human and all have to live a little. 

Happy Birthday, lol!  :Wink:

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## --->>405<<---

Well todays over.. Car buying killed my. CHances for lifting today .. Wonder if i should stil make up shoulders and tris from sat or start the week new again tomorrow with legs..?? Stem gb?? 

Also had hard time getting all macros hit.. Gonna combine meal 5 and 6 rite now before bed so i get close.. Tat ok?? Just 2 cans tuna and 1C cott cheese and 2 tbs nat PB.. 

Total Daily Macros: 1935/293/75/40. 64%P/16%C/20%F

I WILL LIFT TOMORROW DANGIT!!!!!!!

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## gbrice75

I'd just start the week with legs... the rest won't hurt your other groups. 

As for diet, i'd make it 1tbsp nat PB... plenty!

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## Back In Black

> I'd just start the week with legs... the rest won't hurt your other groups. 
> 
> As for diet, i'd make it 1tbsp nat PB... plenty!


Whereas I would just continue with the bodypart to be trained next. Though my days are all over the place at the minute and I'm lucky if I get 4 sessions a week. That's what makes following the diet plan even more important.

405, many happy returns old boy. Go out for the meal, just make the right choices. Don't be scared to ask for it how you want it.

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## --->>405<<---

Well guys i just finished my 45 min am fasted cardio again  :Smilie:  i tell u the weight continues to surprise me.. It seems like every day i wake up and get on the scAle i weigh less than the day before  :Smilie:  this am i weighed 202... Down from 204 on sunday(2days ago) .. Thats 11 lbs in 23 days.: SteM and Gb i should just keep rolling like this rite?? Not worry about lbm?? 2300 cals and 330g protein is enuff for me to hang on to it and be dropping this fAst?? 

SteM im gonna start ur suggested wkout today.. Will be the first time i havent done circuit since i was a teenager :Smilie:  well i need to go eat my breakfast.. We certainly dont wanna encourage catabolism  :Smilie: 

Hope yall have a good day..

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## gbrice75

If you're losing weight and feel fine (strength, energy, etc) I wouldn't be worried. 2300 cals and 330g of protein is plenty, especially on the protein.

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## --->>405<<---

Shoot yeh i feel ok.. A little tired but i just finished changing 4 tires manually after my cRdio.. All before 9am  :Smilie:

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## gbrice75

^^ That'd burn anybody out!

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## SlimmerMe

11 gone in 23 days? WOWSA! Good for you. I would not worry about your lean mass for now. Get the BF off first IMO.

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## --->>405<<---

sounds good slim.. ill keep rolling like i am.. got my lifting dun.. SteM that chest and bi wkout u gave me was great man.. got it in and got out  :Smilie: thx dude..

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## --->>405<<---

also were the nutrition resource forum now huh??well, pardon me  :Smilie:

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## Back In Black

> sounds good slim.. ill keep rolling like i am.. got my lifting dun.. SteM that chest and bi wkout u gave me was great man.. got it in and got out thx dude..


Good news. Hoping you managed to shift a bit more weightper set than usual?

Good weight loss. Don't sweat on the LBM. Keep it up, dude.

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## --->>405<<---

yeh actually i did.. was doing 90lb DB s on incline today... when supersetting i never got over 70..on flat db bench the most there is in the gym is 110lb dbs so i cant really go higher than that.. it was cool.. took a little getting used to by doing only one set then resting..usually i have to do like 4,5 or 6 sets before i can rest.. gave maybe 1 min between sets..

had a good day.. got all in i needed to.. diet am cardio and lift  :Smilie:  

Total Daily Macros:2223/334/97/44 63%P/18%C/18%F

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## SlimmerMe

> also were the nutrition resource forum now huh??well, pardon me


Yep! Don't you like it? Never have liked the "D" word! LOL!

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## --->>405<<---

well todays not really starting off well.. did no cardio this am cuz i didnt get home from work last nite until 0200 and had to get up this am at 0630 to go back to work.. tired.. to top it off at lunch(when i should be lifting) i have to go BACK to the doctor AGAIN to get blood drawn AGAIN cuz the idiots at the lab didnt test me for the ONE THING I WENT TO THE LAB TO GET TESTED FOR! TESTOSTERONE .. but at least i know my cholesterol is ok rite? oh boy! stop the presses.. now i can sleep.. my electrolytes are fine..

oh and also i had to battle last nite with a major urge to go to KRYSTAL and get 6 bacon cheese KRYSTALS with mayo and ketchup only and a chili cheese fry.. i went to the snak machine cuz it was late and i was starving and i was gonna get some pork rinds cuz one bag only has 80 cals and 5g fat and 0 carbs but the machine was out.. i only had 1 dollar on me so i spent it intentionally on a coke zero that way i wouldnt have any money to go bak to the snack machine with.. LOL so im still 100% on diet.. 

i tell u one thing im ready for a cheat meal.. 1 week from this saturday.. some family is coming over and were gonna celebrate my bday then.. GB 3 weeks was not bad on diet 100% but i tell u in week 4 with perfect adherence its beginning to wear on me a little bit  :Smilie:  hope yall r having a good day..

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## SlimmerMe

^^ YOU GOT IT NOW! Consistency is the secret and you are doing this.

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## gbrice75

You're getting there bro... if you did 3 weeks, you can certainly do one more. GREAT about the vending machine thing... many others would have caved... I have. Respect!!

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## --->>405<<---

well i managed to get my lift in today.. did legs and it was a good workout.. split squats r tuff man  :Smilie: i tell u im tired now ..

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## Back In Black

> well i managed to get my lift in today.. did legs and it was a good workout.. split squats r tuff man i tell u im tired now ..


Ha ha, you know it. btw the workout I sent you is my own workout. You don't ave to, and shouldn't, follow it to a 'T'. Some lifts are specific to me and my weaknesses, partic. the unilateral cable flye and the partial deadlifts. But deffinitely use it as a spine and work from there.

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## --->>405<<---

well i do cable flyes on my own.. the word unilateral threw me off a bit.. wat does that mean?? i do them seated on an inclined position.. the front squat i didnt attempt i just did leg extensions instead.. just doing reg squats the weight on my shoulders makes my right shoulder hurt a tad.. (i had surgery on it in april of this yr) so i didnt wanna push it with the front squat..

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## --->>405<<---

Another day down.. Tomorrow am fasted cardio!! I cant believe im actually glad  :Smilie: 

Total Daily Macros:2273/322/97/56

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## Back In Black

> well i do cable flyes on my own.. the word unilateral threw me off a bit.. wat does that mean?? i do them seated on an inclined position.. the front squat i didnt attempt i just did leg extensions instead.. just doing reg squats the weight on my shoulders makes my right shoulder hurt a tad.. (i had surgery on it in april of this yr) so i didnt wanna push it with the front squat..


By Unilateral I mean 1 arm at a time. 30 degree incline. with one arm it means I can cross over the centre of my chest at the top of the move. I am trying to hit my upper inner chest which is a real weakness for me.

As for front squats, just start out at about 40kg (90lbs) and go from there. If that causes your shoulder a problem just start with the bar. If that hurts stick to extensions but the 2 moves are worlds apart in benefits for you at this stage. 

Does your shoulder need some flexibility work?

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## --->>405<<---

let me ask u this.. whats a good exercise for the outside pec?? for the line that goes from the armpit around and under the nipple?? 

ill try the front squat next go around..ill u tube it to check out difft ways to hold the bar.. it looks awkward.. 

i dont think so on the shoulder.. there was no actual damage but they sucked particles out of it as well as ground my collarbone down cuz it was scraping some other bone and had arthritis on it.. its prob 90% rite now.. took like 4 months to heal to where its at now and its pretty much staying at 90%

got in cardio this am but only 40 mins instead of 45 cuz i hard a hard time getting outta bed  :Smilie:

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## Back In Black

2 ways you can hold the bar, either with arms crossed which appear standard in most gyms. Or like a weightlifter would in the clean and jerk.

As for the outer pec line specifically that's really not gonna come in until your bodyfat is way down. Just make sure you get a full stretch on you dumbell presses, no half measures just to shift more weight.

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## --->>405<<---

now when i do a db press shouldnt i stop going down when my arm(between the shoulder and elbow)is parallel to the floor?? otherwise seems would be bad for shoulder..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Not much to say.. Got blood taken at lunch so they can chek my test levels (for the second time) .. 

Total Daily Macros:2034/268/95/57

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## Back In Black

> now when i do a db press shouldnt i stop going down when my arm(between the shoulder and elbow)is parallel to the floor?? otherwise seems would be bad for shoulder..


If you are stopping with your upper arm parallel to the floor you are missing out on AT LEAST 8 inches of, arguably the most important, movement of the exercise. When using dumbbells I ensure I lower the bells so that the imaginary bar between bells would touch my chest. The shoulders have much more freedom this way than with a barbell.

But if you have shoulder issues you have to judge for yourself how low is safe. I would suggest you drop the weight and try the full movement. Without it you'll unlikely reach full pectoral development.

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## --->>405<<---

well upon retrospect i bring the dumbells down to where the plates touch around my armpit but next time i do it ill chek it out ..wat do u think about db flyes ?? oh and also my weight has gone from 202(my lowest) back up to 204 this am.. i guess it can fluctuate up and down a couple pounds with water and stuff..?? i am looking leaner i think .. ill be posting a pic sunday and ill also post some pics i took at the beginning..

----------


## Back In Black

> well upon retrospect i bring the dumbells down to where the plates touch around my armpit but next time i do it ill chek it out ..wat do u think about db flyes ?? oh and also my weight has gone from 202(my lowest) back up to 204 this am.. i guess it can fluctuate up and down a couple pounds with water and stuff..?? i am looking leaner i think .. ill be posting a pic sunday and ill also post some pics i took at the beginning..


DB flyes are ok, I neither like nor dislike. When cutting I'd prob rather spend an extra 5 mins on my PWO cardio but as you do your cardio seperately it's up to you. If you feel they are of benefit by all means go ahead. Just make sure they are a fyle rather than a flye cum press.

Weight can fluctuate but there is usually good reason. Any salt/seasoning/sauce on your meals yesterday? Salt is normally the worst culprit.

If you think you are looking leaner then you are. You will be your own worst critic so any imporovements you see will be seen more by others.

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## --->>405<<---

well yeh yesterday now that u mention it my wife seasoned the meat with some stuff i think is really salty  :Smilie:  also the past couple days i have used a good bit of hot sauce just to add some flavor..get tired of the same old bland food..BLAH >>  :Smilie: 

todays back wkout was great! i really like how i just do one set and rest for a minute then do another set,,then rest then do another set  :Smilie:  the whole thing took me like 45 mins... i tell u stem the weighted reverse crunches..yeh rite ! :Smilie:  i could barely do them with out weight.. i u tube it and the guy i saw was doing it on one of those decline sit up things.. so thats wat i did.. with me feet below my waist..TUFF BUT I LIKED IT.. again better than like the 500 crunches and 200 leg lifts i used to do.. havent worked my abs in like 5 yrs..theyve gotten a little weak.. i feel the strength will come bak quikly in them though.. 

tomorrow..shoulders  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Just make sure no salt/seasoning the day before your 'official weigh in' otherwise your stats will likely be off.

Managing to do any deadlifts?

Reverse crunches are great. On an inclined bench with weight is great. But then, I'm also a fan of hanging leg raises as long as the technique is right. Need to focus on lower abs doing the work NOT the hip flexors!

Good luck with delts, happy with the face pulls?

----------


## --->>405<<---

dunno tomorrows the first day for them.. will be interested to see how they go.. i lookd them up on u tube and they look to be pretty good.. all ur exercises are.. better than the ones i was doing..

did the partial deadlift today.. that was good..

how long does it usually take to get rid of the water after a day with high salt.. i didnt know she was putting the seasoning on she used.. silly girl.. she used old bay on burger.. in case u dont know its for seafood especially crab.. btw how about crabmeat??like crablegs?? would they be considered cheating or could i eat that? i love crab and oysters .. 

also (and this is kind of gross i guess) but i read in another thread about drinking alot of water when running low carb for a variety of reasons one of them being regularity which until just recently i never had a prob with but i have noticed somewhat of a change.. trying not to be too graphic here but i have seemed to tighten up a tad.. i was curious as to why i figd it was diet but was unsure of what part.. is it the low carbs?

----------


## --->>405<<---

hey also stem and gb should i do a refeed on my current diet where im running only 100c/day?? today is day 10 at 100g C

----------


## --->>405<<---

Total Daily Macros:2231/329/97/58 60%P/18%C/23%F

----------


## --->>405<<---

oops  :Smilie:  cals should be 2331

----------


## Back In Black

If you can do full deads you should. I do partials because I have a lower back issue that has kept me out the gym for over 12 weeks this this year. Wish I could risk full deads.

Will take the body about 24 hours to rid the water of the salt, on average.

As for crab, just check your macro's and fit them in accordingly. I believe in a broad sprectrum of meats, veggies and carbs. Personally, I don't like crab, not that you need to know that. I suspect you will need to check the sodium content too and not eat them the day before a weigh in.

Water definitely helps with regularity and I should hope you are having plenty of fibrous green veg too. Any idea how many grams of fibre you are consuming? Work it out but I would suggest a minimum of 30g daily. Have to say, even when I ran a keto diet I was as regular as always.

Refeed? Personally at 100g carbs daily I would have one every 14 days. But, if you are gonna have a cheat meal anyway, just have that, don't refeed too. But a refeed every 14 days would be about right.

Don't forget, on face pulls, elbows at shoulder height throughout!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Now i do romAnian deads on leg day and what? Stiff leg regular deads on back day?

Will chek fiber count.. I eat about 3-4 cups broccoli/day with meals 2 and 4 as well as about 10 pieces of aspAragus with meal 5 and tats all the green veg i get.. Tats everyday without fail.. 

Yes im looking fkrward to todays lift(facepulls).. My legs are still sore from tuesday and my abs are sore from yesterday  :Smilie: 

Down to 204 today from 204.4 yesterday although i do question the acccuracy of my scale.. May invest in a better one.. Its a digital scale.. Supposedly reads bf and water and bone density but i think its way off tat.. I stay around 40%bf on it LOL i know im not tat fat  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Romanians on leg day yes.

On back day, regular bent leg deadlifts.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ok cool.. I loved the facepulls so much i did 3 sets :Smilie: .. Off early today yay!! Not usual for sats for me.. Both wkouts dun now gonna chill maybe play some gta4  :Smilie:  i like vid games.. Hope yall have a good day

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok guys its been 4 weeks  :Smilie:  time to post my results pics  :Smilie:  im pretty happy so far. still gotta long way to go but if i make the same progress over the next 4 weeks that i did this 4 weeks i think i may be able to really start seeing something.. i have categorized myself in 3 classes i wonder if anyone can relate:

class 1 .. fat in clothes 
class 2.. look good in clothes 
class 3.. look good without a shirt.. 

when i get home ill post the stats.. i tell u i had one more original pic but this attachment thing is a pain in the butt!!! so im goo with the 5 pics..

if it comes up correctly pic 1 and pic 3 were taken 4 weeks ago... pics 2,4,and 5 i took this morning.. what do u guys think??

----------


## Back In Black

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!! OMG that is pretty freakin awesome work for only 4 weeks.

That's what Desire, Discipline and Dedication CAN do to a person.

Proud of you dude can't wait to see what the next 4, 8 and 12 weeks bring!

----------


## SlimmerMe

*amazing 405!*

*you are on track! Keep it up! Good for you!*

----------


## --->>405<<---

Starting weight:96.6kg at 21.9%bf

LSt week i weighed 204/92.5kg at 19.99%bf

This week i weigh 202/91.6kg at 19.2%bf

4 weeks lost 5kg and 2.6% bf !!! 

Starting LBM :75kg
Todays LBM: 74kg

SteM i tell u man im motivated as heck.. Slim thx for the encouragement  :Smilie: 

GB and SteM i really appreciAte u guys help.. I couldnt do it without yall .. 
This next month is gonna be a big monty for me.. Im at 202 lbs so knowing me this is where i start to get out of familiar territory.. 

Should i keep running the same numbers ivebeen running all along? My lbm has only dropped 1 kg so is tat enuff to make a difference?? Im thinking of maybe trying to up my am fasted cardio from 45 mins to 60 mins.. If i can duplicate this past months progress again i will really be in uncharted territory.. I havebeen as low as 185 lbs and my bf according to my wife then was around 16-17%.. tats as low as ive ever been .. Im hoping i get close by the end of november.. It seems Tats a sticking point for me .. Maybe its cuz before it took so much effort i was burnt out by then.. Also i have gotten injured as well .. Anyways as usual ur advice is greatly appreciated  :Smilie:

----------


## gbrice75

Awesome progress bro!!!! Keep this up and in 3-6 months, you will look like a completely different person. Stay sharp, stay consistent, and you will beat this, hands down!!!

Stem's got you sorted out. I've been adding my .02 here and there, mainly here for support and encouragement!  :Wink:

----------


## Back In Black

Hopefully when you get to 185 this time you'll look way better than when you were last 185.

Keep running the same numbers. Hopefully the change in workout will arrest any further loss of LBM. If it turns out to be an issue we can look at manipulating your macro's. But, it's working, so let's keep with it as it is!

If you want to up your fasted cardio that's cool but 60 mins max. I'm aware owhat a busy life you have and suffering a burnout will only be counter productive. BUT........it's your body and you know what it can handle more than anybody. If you feel you need a couple of days rest, then rest. If not, you are good to go!

----------


## --->>405<<---

I think i will look better at 185 this time stem :Smilie:  last time it was all cardio and no lifting.. 

When u say the change in workout u r talkn bout my new better lifting routine? which i really like  :Smilie:  its cool cuz i can do more weight.. Maybe ill get stronger .. Do u have a suggestion as to some online program or spreadsheet i can use to track reps and weight and stuff??

Tell me wat u think bout my cardio shoukd i stay at 45 mins?? Or maybe do 2 60 min sessions/week??

As far as rest goes im too in the groove man  :Smilie:  today was a rest day but tomorrow will be hard hitting!!

Next sat is cheat meal day for me.. My whole family is coming over and im smoking baby back ribs and chikn wings and were ordering pizza and my mom is baking a cake.. I plan to eat maybe 8 wings(really 4 but theyre cut in 2 pieces), a couple ribs and maybe 3 pieces pizza and a piece of chocolate cake(my mom really makes great cake ) do u think tat will all be ok??

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ok 2 pieces pizza LOL  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well rest day over .. 6 days til cheat meal.. Tomorrow am fasted cardio .. Feeln good .. See yall tomorrow..

Total DAily Macros:2153/322/97/42

----------


## --->>405<<---

well its another day  :Smilie:  did am fasted cardio this am .. only did 45 mins though i think it may be a little tuff getn in 60 rite now just cuz i have to get up 15 mins earlier which may not sound like alot but when ur only getn 6 hrs sleep it certainly feels like it :Smilie:  ready to hit the gym hard at lunch..

----------


## Back In Black

> I think i will look better at 185 this time stem last time it was all cardio and no lifting.. 
> 
> When u say the change in workout u r talkn bout my new better lifting routine? *Yep, I mean your new lifting routine* which i really like  its cool cuz i can do more weight.. Maybe ill get stronger*You WILL get stronger. GUARANTEED* .. Do u have a suggestion as to some online program or spreadsheet i can use to track reps and weight and stuff?? *Nope, I'm a little old fashioned. I have a small notebook and I record each workout on a seperate page. That way I can always refer to my last workout when I'm in the gym.*
> 
> Tell me wat u think bout my cardio shoukd i stay at 45 mins?? Or maybe do 2 60 min sessions/week??
> 
> As far as rest goes im too in the groove man  today was a rest day but tomorrow will be hard hitting!!
> 
> Next sat is cheat meal day for me.. My whole family is coming over and im smoking baby back ribs and chikn wings and were ordering pizza and my mom is baking a cake.. I plan to eat maybe 8 wings(really 4 but theyre cut in 2 pieces), a couple ribs and maybe 3 pieces pizza and a piece of chocolate cake(my mom really makes great cake ) do u think tat will all be ok??


How is your fasted cardio? All the same moderate pace? Are you taking in any BCAA beforehand?

As for your cheat meal, I would say it is excessive. But it is your first one in a month. I suspect you'll feel lethargic and bloated afterward. I'm not going to say don't do exactly that cos it may do you good to feel how bad, unhealthy food now makes you feel. Your body won't assimilate ALL that you eat but you are possibly not gonna lose with that type of cheat. So you know, a cheat for me may be some crisps (chips) before my homemade lasagne and possibly some cheesecake after. But not as much of each as I want. You'll work it out.

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## --->>405<<---

u know i have one of those notebooks in my car that isnt getting used rite now.. good idea.. 

fasted cardio: yes same moderate pace and i take bcaa usually rite before cuz i dont get up until i have to..

i think i can make the cheat meal with the 4 wings and 2 pieces of pizza and decent size piece of cake.. i can not eat the ribs.. when u say im not gonna lose do u mean for that week specifically? 

as for the cheat meal if i was gonna do as much as i wanted itd be 6 whole wings 3 pieces of pizza 3 ribs and 2 pieces of cake LOL.. and im serious about that!

am open to suggestion about cardio if i need to switch it up a bit from day to day.. with some hiit...or what have u..

----------


## Back In Black

Potentially you may not lose anything for the week. It'll probably take a couple of days after that type of cheat for your body to return to the status quo ie disposal of sodium and also disposal of the, erm, sh1t in your intestines.

To make your fasted cardio a little more 'productive' and particularly as you a re taking in BCAA's (10g?) we can change it up. As your bf is still a little high I would suggest you make the first 25 mins (incl warm up) some kind of HIIT and the then the following 20 mins at a moderate pace.

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## --->>405<<---

ok can do.. how bout 5 min warm up
10 sets/30 sec all out/90 sec moderate (20mins)
20 min moderate

the bcaa im taking i spoke to u about previously is body mortar carb free.. ill scroll bak thru and fin where i listed the stats and relist them in a minute.. 

u think changing the cardio will work better in the present circumstances for fatburning??

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## --->>405<<---

Body Mortar:

Calories 0
Fat 0 
Cholest 0
Carbs 0
Fiber 0
Sugars 0
Protein 0

BCAA
L-Leucine 7g
L-Isoleucine 1.75g
L-Valine 1.75g

Revival Agent
Glutamine 2.5g

This is all in 1 scoop which is how much i take

30 servings/container

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## Back In Black

HIIT sounds good. It's just another weapon in your arsenal for your war on fat. Try it, use it, alternate it with moderate cardio, see how you feel. If it's taking too much out of you drop back to just moderate.

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## Back In Black

Body mortar is good to go!

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## --->>405<<---

sweet on the body mortar.. now does it matter that i pretty much get outta bed, walk into kitchen mix bcaa and go upstairs and chug it as im stepping onto the elliptical? do i need to like wait 10 mins or something?

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## --->>405<<---

Total Daily Macros:2273/322/97/56

----------


## Standby

wow bro great job! i myself along with some other posting in your thread have lost over 70lbs. it aint easy but it needs to be done. your doing f'n amazing man. im proud along with everyone else

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## Back In Black

> sweet on the body mortar.. now does it matter that i pretty much get outta bed, walk into kitchen mix bcaa and go upstairs and chug it as im stepping onto the elliptical? do i need to like wait 10 mins or something?


No need to wait, BCAA's are REALLY REALLY fast acting, especially on a empty stomach.

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## --->>405<<---

Hey standby thx man!  :Smilie:  i really appreciate ur encouragement.. Congrats on ur loss as well!

Well i have a 1300 start at work today so i got to sleep in which was awesome.. Just woke up had my bcaas and now its time for fasted cardio.. Today 5 min warm up , 20 mins hiit, 20 mins moderate.. Let the pain begin LOL

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## --->>405<<---

Well got my cardio done.. It was pretty tuff.. Esp after doing the hiit just managing to continue doing 20 more mins of moderate was not easy but i got it dun.. This late afternoon will be legs.. Im hoping to be under 200 lbs by the end of this week  :Smilie:  thatll be sweet.. I did weigh rite after cardio this am and was 200.4 so i think its attainable(i am aware i had lost alot of water in my wkout) i weighed 201.6 before cardio...

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## --->>405<<---

alrighty well another day completed successfully except that the 1300 start has thrown off my eating schedule so i still have 2 more meals to consume :Smilie: 

legs were tuff but good today.. stem i managed to do front squats w/o too much trouble on shoulder.. a little discomfort between thumb and index finger holding the bar.. kind of an awkward position.. did it with 135 which i could easily do more with my legs but i dont know if i can keep the weight held up with my arms when i go down i have to hold it tightly and actually support the weight with my arms.. maybe u could give me a pointer or 2.. 

regular squat wise i did better than last week doing 315 for 8 reps after 135 x 15(warm up)
225 x 8
 275 x 8

i need to get a weight belt.. i think i could do more (maybe 405) if i had a spotter but i was the only one in the gym so i didnt push it.. 

split squats still continue to be the tuffest of all.. do them with dbs (45 in each hand) i think doing them last also makes it harder  :Smilie: 

think im gonna look at some u tube on the romanian deadlift as well.. did them but my technique prob needs some improvement. managed to do last set at 235 x 8 which was tuff.. the belt i was using was too small and velcro and it actually popped off during one set LOL .. 

i think some gloves would prob help with the front squats too actually... 

next up.. back and abs.. theyre just getting unsore(is that a word?? :Smilie:  but im sure thats gonna change.. 

will post total daily macros later..still not eaten all my food.. 

oh 1 more thing yall may think is cool.. i have a buddy i lift with occasionally but hes a chicken wing eater and football watching beer drinker LOL (need i say more) and i told him bout yall and my diet 4 weeks ago.. he responded with not much interest.. well yesterday i texted him 2 pics (original and 4 weeks later) ...long story short i gave him my diet today LOL but i told him he needs to get bf checked because his numbers will be difft than mine.. made me feel good though that my 4 weeks results pics had that much of an impact.. cant wait til next month  :Smilie:  later guys

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## --->>405<<---

total daily macros:2273/322/97/56

----------


## Back In Black

Front squat like this so the hands are used mor for balance and the bar resting across shoulder and upper chest slightly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd_WsfebYOg

And romanian deadlift like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYZjHErxMqQ

You most definitely do NOT need a belt on RDL's and I would argue against one on normal squats/deadlifts too unless you are doing really low reps or max attempts. Unless you have some underlying back condition that we don't know about.

Split squats are a real killer whether firs or last in your workout. By all means continue with dumbbells but I find them much more effective with a barbell on my shoulders. Just watch your technique and make sure that front foot stays flay and that the back knee comes within a hen's tooth of the ground!

Good news your bud has seen great results in you too. When he's 'ready' get him to sign up and we'll look after him too!

----------


## Back In Black

Do you squat in a rck or cage? If so, that's your spotter. It's not uncmmon at my gym to hear a big ass crash of weight as someone fails on a squat. It's why you use a rack or cage. If you only have stands then yes, you need a spotter but I bet there aren't many gyms with only stands anymore.

Your gym's staff should be able to spot you provided they aren't just lounging about sipping protein shakes sand flirting with the clientele!

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok on the belt.. i wasnt sure just always thought u needed one for them(squats heavy) i dont have any back issues and it hasnt been hurting me on either although on the DL it does get a tad sore and tired after...maybe cuz i never had done alot of lower back exercises.. 

split squats i like i am gonna watch the vid after i post this i have just had some prob with balance.. maybe using a BB will help with that..?

ive already suggested to my bud that he get on here.. well see what time will tell  :Smilie: 

i do have a squat rack i use.. its right up against a wall that has a big mirror on it and i dont know how much room id have to fall completely thru if necessary.. the gym i go to is very convenient (rite around the corner from work) and it only costs me 100$/year(thats rite per year) to be a member .. me and 5 buddys go in each yr and put up 100$ a piece ... u may say "have ur friends spot u" but usually im the only one who goes.. 

theres no staff in there the guy who owns it opened it in the 70s (back in the arnold days) and i dont believe hes added any new equipment since then LOL .. its not one of those fancy gyms where u have a bunch of people going all decked out in nice workout clothes and a smoothie bar with alot of hot chicks on cardio equipment.. the nautilus equipment has what looks like motorcycle chains attached to sprockets pulling the weight LOL but they have plenty of good freeweights to get it dun.. they actually have dumbells in there that look like two big balls on each end with a handle in between all one solid piece of iron.. 

now to an equally important matter.. my cheat meal  :Smilie:  the closer i get to it the more i think about the potential impact its gonna have on my progress.. i would appreciate ur recommendation as to how much i should eat.. i was under the impression that a cheat meal was a good and necessary thing to kind of throw off my metabolism that has grown accustomed to my current diet which should "reset" it (for lack of a better term) and get it cranked up again because the body is good at acclimating itself to whatever environment i create for it ie:diet and exercise routine.. is this indeed correct or is it an attempt to justify deviating from my diet? 

if this is true then how much should i eat to achieve that as well as release some pressure thats built from eating boring food for a month where i will have the most efficient effect on my continued progress?? 

also after this cheat meal here will i have to wait another month for another one?(fine if i do i just need to know)

3rdly will there come a time when i will get to have a cheat meal more often than once a month and if so at what approximate bf% will that be and approximately how often would u suggest?? 

i know alot of questions  :Smilie:  thx man

----------


## --->>405<<---

oh yeh also i had an alarm clock mishapn this am so i didnt get in my usual fasted cardio.. (bummed) i thought about going to run at lunch which is what i used to do but ive gotten so in the groove with the efficiency of fasted cardio im wondering if itll be worth the time?? prob a 30 min session HIIT sprints?? will it still be constructive for fatloss considering i will have consumed 2 meals by then and 75% of my carbs for the day??

----------


## Back In Black

As long as your legs aren't too shot from yesterdays session then yeah, a HIIT session is certainly acceptable. In fact, it's all I'll have time for later so it's what I'll be doing.

----------


## --->>405<<---

when u get time will u check out post 289?

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## --->>405<<---

well i tell u one thing is for sure: HIIT sprints do NOT get any easier just cuz u take a month off  :Smilie:  got in 1/2 mile jog plus 10 sprints.. took 33 mins and im spent.. so much for worrying about it being a waste of time.. it def didnt feel like one..

----------


## Back In Black

Yep, if you do a HIIT session and you don't think it's been worth it, then you haven't done a HIIT session.

As far as your planned cheat I'm just gonna say, have what you want. You'll only know how much a cheat sets you back after you've done a few to varying degrees. What I will say is this - weigh yourself the morning of your cheat. Then the morning after and so on until you are at the weight the day of your cheat. How many days that is doesn't quite correlate to how many days it sets you back, but it isn't far off.

My last blowout took me 60 hours to return to my pre-cheat weight. My cheats are, on the whole, very much more controlled than that. You shouldn't see it as an excuse to fill your boots because you can. But, it's been a month so have what you like and just learn from the weight and how it makes you feel for a day or 2 after.

As to a cheat resetting your metabolism? Broscience so that the bro's have an excuse to pig out. Bodybuilders readying themselves for comps don't rely on pizza and chicken wings to keep their metabolism in check. To avoid your metabolism 'slipping' is the reason I suggested a carb refeed every 14 days. That's carb not carb AND fat.

So, yet again, it's a learning experience for you.

Any clearer?

----------


## --->>405<<---

thats a big 10/4 good buddy  :Smilie:  LOL on the bodybuilders relying on chicken wings and pizza LOLOLOL

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well another day dun.. I tell u im lookn forward to tomorrow when i can do my am fasted cardio and lift T lunch.. I didnt feel like i did enuff today just doing hiit at lunch today with no lifting.. Anyways ..

Total daily macros:2273/322/97/56

Oh and my buddy who i gave my diet to yezterday left work early today to go drink beer and eat chikn wings.. Guess he figd hed start the diet "on monday".. anyone relate to that? I can  :Smilie:

----------


## GirlyGymRat

this is hard core stuff in this thread

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx Girl.. Will take tAt as a comPliment  :Smilie:  ive always been an "all or nothing kind of guy" when i make my mind up to really diet or eat, drink beer or other activities  :Wink: ... Most of them ive given up so now i can really give my body a good shot cuz i dont have anything to get in the way (lifestyle-wise)..

Well i woke up and got in my 45 min fasted cardio this am.. I tell u the first 20 mins of am cardio is def the hardest... Getn those sleepy legs woke up and warmed up .. Alot of time i just frel like quitting.. (not really but kinda) today i tried doing a 30 sec interval all out to kinda give em a jolt and it actually worked.. Maybe next time ill do 2 or 3...

----------


## --->>405<<---

UPDATE UPDATE: got my test results back.. 

total testosterone :349 (normal 348-1197)
free testosterone:7.3(normal 8.7-25.1)

kinda bummed out.. posted thread in hormone replacement section.. does explain fatigue and mood.. any thoughts anyone??

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i got back and abs dun.. good workout.. did reg deads today stem..tuff.. 225 x 8 was the most i did.. prob a sad number for deads but i never really did them before.. maybe when i build up my posterior chain a littl bit ill be abloe to do more  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

total daily macros : same as yesterday

----------


## GirlyGymRat

[QUOTE=--->>405<<---;5788177]Thx Girl.. *Will take tAt as a comPliment * ive always been an "all or nothing kind of guy" when i make my mind up to really diet or eat, drink beer or other activities  :Wink: ... *Most of them ive given up so* *now i can really give my body a good shot cuz i dont have anything to get in the way (lifestyle-wise)*..QUOTE]

As you should and you are better off without IMHO!! I'll be checkin in on you periodically!

----------


## --->>405<<---

hey thx girl and ur rite i am better off believe u me and id appreciate u dropping in  :Smilie: 

well i didnt do any cardio this am cuz i didnt go to bed until 2330 and had to be at work at 0650 which would have meant i woulda had to get up at 0430 to do cardio and after 16 hr day yesterday i just didnt have it in me to do.. i did set the alarm for 0440 but when it went off i just stayed in bed.. i did feel guilty but what do u do? considering doing HIIT again at lunch and lifting at 1800 if i can but i may just have to wait and do cardio tonite or just skip it altogether today.. sometimes my schedule just doesnt allow especially cuz its friday and ive already worked 48 hrs before the start today.. if i do skip it today i will do cardio sunday which is supposed to be an off day.. 

shoulders today as well.. 

been debating on what to do about TRT if i should go ahead and get on under this doctor im seeing currently or wait until i can see an endocrinologist.. the only bad thing about waiting is the next available appt isnt until after Christmas.. thought about making another appt with regular doc and bringing info with me about TRT protocol and seeing if theyre open to following it before i make an absolute decision.. would be nice to have more energy and stuff as well as the possible positive aspect associated with having normal test levels.. like i said before i thought i was just tired cuz i work so much but now i see thats not the case and id like to get my energy back cuz my lifestyle does require alot of it..im still waitn to see IF shes even gonna give me a referral.. they seemd a bit unhappy with the fact that i was asking for one.. but thats coming from the lab woman not the actual doc.. i think i need to speak to her directly..

----------


## --->>405<<---

not alot of action on here today

----------


## --->>405<<---

well my workout went well.. did shoulders and then got in 20 mins HIIT on treadmill immediately after.. thats something ive never done before.. figd since i wasnt able to do any cardio this am i needed to get it in when i could and i had the time so there u go.. managed to do the 70 lb dbs on seated shoulder press for 3 sets .. maybe next week ill try the 75s.. 

tomorrow is cheat meal day! yay!! i would have thought id be more excited but with all thats going on its kinda lost its luster.. TBH i prob wont eat a whole lot cuz i dont want it to affect my diet too bad.. 

it appears my weight loss has slowed a tad but i wont be certain til at least tomorrow..i usually weigh in on sundays but since my cheat day is 2morr i will do it then.. 

Stem maybe if thats the case we might have to do some modification? also could it be that ive been eating 100g carbs for like 16 days strait without a refeed???

----------


## Back In Black

Mate, I can't comment on your test results, I have little experience in that area and will leave that to the experts.

HIIT after weights is pretty much the only cardio I do atm, it's all I have time for. And I like it. It's efficient! 70lb shoulder presses are good and 225 for 8 reps as a first time deadlift is a great start, should be able to add 10lb per session to that for a while.

Let's see what your weigh in tells us. The fact we have modified your workouts recently MAY have encouraged a little muscle growth. But, fat loss will slow down no doubt. Definitely need a refeed but we'll class your cheat as a refeed this time around.

Pleased your planned cheat is not gonna be as bad as suggested. Generally planned cheats contain less than those times when you suddenly have a mad craving and go balls to the wall without thinking about it.

Let us know what the weigh in reads.

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh tats cool i didnt figure u could.. just thought it was relevant to my situation(diet).. 

i am dun with lifting til monday at which time i will start writing down my weights and reps and stuff.. should i try to add weight to what i do every week? usually how much weight i handle has been just what i think i can do at the time..no real structure.. any suggestion would be appreciated..

im hoping ur rite about adding some muscle..also i cut out worcestershire and old bay (salt) from my diet as of today.. dont plan to use it again for awhile..

funny about the balls to the wall cheating attack.. sounds like a binge..

will be posting weigh in in the am

----------


## --->>405<<---

Total daily Macros:2273/322/97/56 ud think id have it memorized by now i eat the exact same thing everyday

----------


## Back In Black

A binge with attitude mate. We all do it. From time to time.

As far as adding weight every week? If you can add weight and stay within your target reps then yes, definitely. If you don't add weight I would expect you to be doing one more rep. eg on your 6-8 rep week if you do incline presses say for sets of 8,8,7,7 I would still put the weight up. You may need to drop the weight by the time the third set comes about but that's ok. It's still progression. If you only do 8,7,6,6 then you may want to stay the same weight and look to up your reps on the 7,6,6 sets.

Small progression, if you can, on every exercise, every week. Small steps equal a massive journey over time.

Oh, and Worcester sauce? You know what's in it and how it was created/discovered?

----------


## --->>405<<---

No i dont know wats in it or how it was discovered but i like it  :Smilie:  do tell ...

Weighed in first thing this am : 200.6 so tats exactly 2 lbs drop from last sunday .. May been a little more had i weighed in tomorrow which is when i shoulda weighed in but ill take 2 lbs.. I should hopefully go under 200 this week depending on my cheat meal today.. It also is supposed to rain today.. The only day in the next 10 rain is expected.. Can u believe tat crap?? Hasnt raind in a week and wont rain for 10 more days and the one day i have family coming for a cookout its supposed to rain.. 

Will have wifr chk bf when she gets in the mean time .. Fasted cardio..

----------


## Back In Black

malt vinegar (from barley), spirit vinegar, molasses, sugar, salt, anchovies, tamarind extract, onions, garlic, spice, and flavouring.[8] The "spice, and flavouring" is believed to include cloves, soy sauce, lemons, pickles and peppers.

When they made it it tasted so foul that they didn't even bother trying to make a better tasting version. About a year later these guys stumbled across it in their cellar having forgotten all about it. They tasted it and, hey presto, Worcestershire sauce was born!

It's awesome on cheese on toast. Not that we would even consider eating cheese. Or toast. Probably.

Good weight loss, 2lbs. Steady. Gonna look awesome pretty soon.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Funny u say that about cheese on toast w worcestershire :Smilie:  my mom who i told u is fr england(sussex) used to make me grilled cheese sandwiches when i was a kid and she put worcestershire on it.. Was very good  :Smilie: 

Bf came in at 18.9%

Last week was 19.2 so not much of a drop.. At about 5 or 6 days worth of burger with worcestershire in it as well as old bay on my shrimp and eggd so maybe i have some water weight or someth.. 

LBM droppd from 74.03 to 73.77
Fat wt droppd fr. 17.6 to 17.2

So i lost .26kg lbm and .41kg fat

I start TRT on wednesday.. Test cyp 100mg/ml not sure if 100mg/week or 200mg/week
Got a 6 month script which works out to 200mg/week

5 x 10ml filld before end of april which is 50 shots.. 

Thats 8 shots/month.. Hope this boost in test will also assist in musclE growth and fatloss seeing as how my free test is only 7.3 rite now which is well below the lowest normal...

----------


## --->>405<<---

Had cheat .. Plate full of food.. Only had 1 1/2 chk wing and like 2 ribs with baked beans, salad , 3bean salad and potato salad.. And generous piece of choc cake w ice cream and big glass milk.. 

Dun deal.. More full than ive been in a month.. 

Now back to diet til thxgiving... 

Stem u wer rite i dont feel spectacular but glad i got it behind me.. Could have eaten alot more.. Only ate 1 other meal today (about 450cal) so i shouldnt be too far over daily total cals.. 

Couch time  :Smilie:

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Had cheat .. Plate full of food
> 
> Couch time



Sounds like you deserved both!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Hey thx girl.. Its been a good 5 weeks  :Smilie:  back to 100% diet .. Now i gotta get all this food outta house.. Gonna give sum to a friend at work tomorrow .. Took a pic of my plate will post it tomorrow when i have laptop running..

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Hey thx girl.. Its been a good 5 weeks  back to 100% diet .. Now i gotta get all this food outta house.. Gonna give sum to a friend at work tomorrow ..* Took a pic of my plate* will post it tomorrow when i have laptop running..


Too funny.....I have done this on vacation at fancy places...but never a cheat meal so it must have been the bomb! hahahaha

----------


## --->>405<<---

It was very good if u like chk wings on the grill and ribs (smoked) ... But also i like to be thorough and what better way than posting a pic of exactly wat i ate for my cheat? Although i did leave out the cake.. I must say im a dang good grillman.. Plus my wife used to work at a wing restaraunt and she got me some wing sauce thats awesome .. Jalapeno cheddar.. Mmm of course i also used bbq sauce on some of the wings as well...Not to mention ive never been 5 weeks on a diet with no cheat in my life so it was pretty important to me.. Before i only went one week..

----------


## SlimmerMe

Sounding better and better! 5 weeks! That is fantastic! Keep it up~

----------


## --->>405<<---

well back in the saddle again!  :Smilie: 

woke up this am and did 45 min fasted cardio with 20 min HIIT and 20 min moderate.. 

SteM weight was up from 200.6 sat morning to 201.0 this am.. i can live with that  :Smilie: 

ready to get back in the gym tomorrow.. i included here a pic of my plate thats i ate yesterday..the only thing i left out was the cake.. (chocolate w big scoop 1/2 the fat vanilla breyers ice cream)

well the pic is taking forever to download so im gonna just post this and chek later to see if its dun..

----------


## --->>405<<---

this is how we do it in south cArolina

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## --->>405<<---

well i ran out of protein powder and the kind my wife got had 9gcarb/serving so she had to take it back.. total daily macros got thrown off so.. 1934/246/92/60

weird how that happened .. usually i have like 300 more cals and 5g less fat.. oh well whatever..should be back on track better tomorrow

----------


## Back In Black

Don't panic and worry so much about not having whey on hand. If it was for post workout you could have just subbed with 10gBCAA and the maybe a chicken breas or egg whites and some oats, basically the same macro's as your PWO shake.

That was a tiny weight gain for, what to me, is a big plate of food.

You'll be less than 200lbs in a few days time. Happy?

----------


## --->>405<<---

funny stem i woke up this am and weighed 200 on the nose :Smilie:  which is .4lbs lighter than i was on saturday.. my macros were off for yesterday though..

actual total daily macros for yesterday:1564/215/80/41..the macros i posted last nite i did before actually eating meal 6.. had no pro powder and ran out of cottage cheese so i didnt eat my nat PB since they go together i just skipped meal 6.. didnt have it in me to do cardio this am either cuz i only had 5 hrs sleep.. i did however do it yesterday which is usually an off day so i think ill be ok.. 

today:chest/bis

ill have to remember that about the bcaas.. i didnt even think about them.. i guess i have them programmed in my mind for pre-fasted cardio only..

----------


## --->>405<<---

and actually stem that was what i considered to be a conservative plate of food.. i would prob eat almost twice that much before..

----------


## --->>405<<---

oh 1 other question.. the protein powder i have now for today only has 27g carb in 3 servings (which is how many in get pwo) should i drink it and just leave off the oats to compensate for carbs today???

----------


## Back In Black

Yeah, just hit your macro's dude, it's not gonna matter for one day having the 'wrong' type of carbs after training. May I suggest you switch your protein from concentrate to isolate!? More protein, less carbs and less fat per serving and quicker into your system too.

----------


## --->>405<<---

hmm isolate huh?? LOL i guess i dont pay attention to type as much as i just look at pro/carb/fat.. my wife usually gets it but i think they quit carrying the kind i usually use..i know the kind with the 9c has bcaas in it .. prob some other stuff too.. im not a big reader.. maybe i should change that about me  :Smilie:  will look into that isolate protein..

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## --->>405<<---

Got in a good chest and bi wkout todat.. Stem i wrote down every rep and weight i did .. I can def see where thats gonna come in handy.. Every week ill try to do more weight or more reps.. Didnt take that lOng at all either.. Just wrote during rest tween sets

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## Back In Black

That's it, jot it down as you complete each set, makes certain you won't forget by doing it later on. Chest and bi's for me today too, first time in 12 weeks I had no progression at all.
When you doing more pics?

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## --->>405<<---

2 weeks from saturday

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## SlimmerMe

Happy halloween!

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## --->>405<<---

and to u slim  :Smilie:

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## --->>405<<---

well i had another 1300 start today.. was nice cuz i got to sleep til 1030.. got up did 45 min fasted cardio .. at 1800 i have legs.. also i broke thru under 200 lb mark today!!! weighed 199.4 when i awoke  :Smilie:  pretty good milestone for me .. havent been under 200lbs in 2 yrs.. 

have a question SteM.. now i usually lift at 1200 so i have 3 carb meals in meals 1,2,and3.. today i dont lift until 1800 so should i still eat all my carbs in first 3 meals or switch so the carb meals fall before my lift and pwo??

----------


## Back In Black

Yep, fit 'em round your workout. Personally I would have them in meal 1 and then whatever meals are pre and post.

Congrats on being sub 200. Getting an idea of what you may look like at 180 yet?

----------


## --->>405<<---

starting to  :Smilie: still have good bit of fat im ready to get gone however i do look alot thinner in clothing  :Smilie: havent lost much strength either.. i think writing down my weights and reps will also help me keep an eye on that sort of thing.. esp changing my wkout im in unfamiliar territory with weights and reps.. chest is sore today though which is new.. i dont usually get sore  :Smilie:

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## Papiriqui

Good progress 405, keep going at it, im definitely following you on this one.

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## --->>405<<---

thx dude i appreciate it..will do the same for u man

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## --->>405<<---

well i didnt get to finish all my food yesterday..ran out of time.. Total Daily Macros Yesterday:2052/278/88/59

also this am i couldnt get out of bed to do am fasted cardio cuz i didnt go to bed til 0030... so.. instead ill do HIIT at lunch since theres no lifting today.. other than that things r going well..was down to 198.4 this am.. 1 lb drop from yesterday and 2 lbs since saturday(SteM maybe i should cheat more often  :Smilie:  ) just kidding

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## --->>405<<---

hey stem ... curious.. on cardio only days like today would i do better (when doing HIIT at lunch) to leave carb meals for after my HIIT ?? so meal 1 and meal 2 would be:
meal1:1 whole egg
4 egg whites 
3 oz shrimp

meal2:5 oz chk breast
2 cups broccoli

meal3:2 scoops whey
1/2 cup oats

meal4:6 oz burger
2 cups broccoli
4 oz sweet pot

meal5:2 cans tuna
asparagus
1tsp evoo

meal6:1 cup cott cheese
2 tbs nat PB

thats way im still carb fasted at lunch???

----------


## Back In Black

HIIT is different in many ways to fasted cardio. I for one like to fuel my HIIT cardio so I can work that bit harder during the session. Ultimately your cals and macro's will be the same during the day so I would suggest you fuel yours too.

Good weight loss this weight. Sometimes cheats do help, just not regular ones. Also you didn't hit your macro's the day before and your carbs were quite low. That said, I'm pleased you don't have the patience to weigh yourself once per week. This way you should learn why you may be lighter one day than the next.

Do you ever eat fruit?

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## --->>405<<---

no fruit.. what i posted in post 339 is what ive been eating 7 days/week since sept 28 literally.. with the exception of that one cheat meal... 100% without deviation.. as in NO DEVIATION AT ALL... i must say today i went ahead and didnt eat carbs after meal one which was 1/4 cup oats so ill eat my last carb for the day with meal 4 today except for the 10 or so g carbs in my cott cheese..

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## Back In Black

Ha ha, not checking up on you, dude, just asking.

BTW are you supplementing with anything other than BCAA's?

----------


## --->>405<<---

not currently supplementing with anything but bcaa and whey.. and i didnt think u were checking up on me just wanted to make sure u understood what i was eating  :Smilie:  i know yall said fish oil caps ive just been lazy about that i guess.. not a big fan of the fishy burps.. is there anything else i should be taking?? if so could u explain why?? thx..

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## Back In Black

You're training hard and eating under maintenance so your body will be loving every nutrient you give it. As the range of veggies/fruit is fairly limited on a cutting diet I always supplement with a multi vit/mineral to ensure I'm not missing out on too much. I don't believe in spending loads of money on a multi vit just something that'll give about 100% of your RDA. I take mine at breakfast.

Other than that I like caffeine pre-workout in the form of tablets not actual coffee and I may add some green tea tabs to the caffeine if I remember to buy them. I also like kre alkalyn creatine because I can feel the benefit ut I know it isn't everybodies favourite supp.

BTW I have no real issue with some fruit. I have half a red grapefruit with breakfast and often have a kiwi fruit with one of my other carb meals, usually PPWO. Just account for them in my macro's.

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## --->>405<<---

Caffeine pre workout.. Interesting.. What for energy? Like how much caffeine??mg??I think ill just stay away fr the fruit for now.. Will look into multivitamin as well.. Have creatine will chk think it may be krealkalyn.. 

Total daily macros:2257/304/104/64

----------


## Standby

i workout at 2:30am most of the time and i found a large cup or coffee on my drive there really amped my workout. i now have caffeine pills. 200mg a pill and i take one with my eca stack 20mins before my workout

----------


## Standby

im not say you should do an eca stack by the way especially if your doing so good with out any of that crap. im just saying caffeine will keep you kicking during a workout

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## Back In Black

Yep, 200mg tabs. Esp pre fasted cardio, helps 'mobilise' fat cells. Before a lifting workout, for improved intensity, I sometimes wash a tab down with a cup of coffee!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Funny.. Stem .. Wash down caffeine with coffee.: well i made a major boo boo last nite.. I was at work til 00:00 and about 22:30 i was thirsty so i went over to the soda machine and got a mello yello zero to drink.. Went on about my business and sipped on it for the next hr and a half... Well about 00:15 i was on my way home and i took a sip and all of a sudden it hit me.. "this tastes funny" i turnd on the lite in my car and to my dismay reLized it wasnt a mello yello zero at all! It was a regular mello yello.. I frantically turnd the bottle around(20oz) and lookd at the sugar amt for the whole bottle.. 78g!!!!!! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!! LOL.. And i had already drank almost half of it.. Thats 40g of high fructose corn syrup i accidentally ingested.. And nothing i can do about it  :Smilie:  tats the last time i get a "diet soda" from tat machine  :Smilie: 

Have Ppt with endocrinologist today at 12:20 hope it goes well

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## SlimmerMe

> Yep, 200mg tabs.* Esp pre fasted cardio, helps 'mobilise' fat cells*. Before a lifting workout, for improved intensity, I sometimes wash a tab down with a cup of coffee!


interesting....thanks SteM

and 405....just think of how you might have viewed that yellow yummy drink before starting all of this!

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## Back In Black

> interesting....thanks SteM


In all honesty it doesn't make that much difference unless you are using it constantly over a period of time. But it is inexpensive though more effective when 'stacked' with other compounds, particularly compounds that act like adrenalin. This is why it works so well with ephedrine and, indeed, clenbuterol .

Green tea is another inexpensive option that I like to stack it with though there are others. There are numerous studies on the subject.

As a side note the free fatty acids that it releases nto the bloodstream will be burned with the right type of exercise but if all the FFA's are not used they will simply return to the fat cells. So you can't sit on your bum drinking coffee after coffee expecting a thermogenic effect.



405 - noted re: the yellow carbonated drink that I've never heard of! It's a reminder that when dieting always check the label.

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## SlimmerMe

> In all honesty it doesn't make that much difference *unless you are using it constantly over a period of time*.


Thanks SteM. what do you consider this period of time to be? lets say one does fasted cardio 5-6 times a week for 3 months would this be a sufficient period of time? or are we talking about longer.....appreciate it....

hope you are okay with some questions 405~

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## --->>405<<---

:Smilie:  yeh actually i have stayd away fr high fructose corn syrup for years  :Smilie:  just not ice cream and chk wings and pizza  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

:Smilie:  yeh actually i have stayd away fr high fructose corn syrup for years  :Smilie:  just not ice cream and chk wings and pizza  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

No prob slim ask away :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

[QUOTE=SlimmerMe;5798162]Thanks SteM. what do you consider this period of time to be? lets say one does fasted cardio 5-6 times a week for 3 months would this be a sufficient period of time? or are we talking about longer.....appreciate it....QUOTE]

I would think that's a reasonable amount of time yep. Is that what you used? Anything with it?

Personally I use it before lifting and before any fasted cardio if I ever get the chance to do it.

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## SlimmerMe

> No prob slim ask away


great! it is how we all learn so happy to hear...

[QUOTE=SteM;5798215]


> Thanks SteM. what do you consider this period of time to be? lets say one does fasted cardio 5-6 times a week for 3 months would this be a sufficient period of time? or are we talking about longer.....appreciate it....QUOTE]
> 
> I would think that's a reasonable amount of time yep. Is that what you used? Anything with it?
> 
> Personally I use it before lifting and before any fasted cardio if I ever get the chance to do it.


never tried it but might when I start back my fasted cardio....thanks!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well its been a busy day:. I tell u 2300 cals can be hard to hit sometimes when eatn chk breazt and veg and sweet potatoes  :Smilie:  didnt make it today.. The only meal i didnt get in was pwo and i didnt "wo" today so i hope its ok ... I did do fasted cardio but not lift.. I did sub a 5 oz chk breast fir my 2 scoops whey but i did not eat anyth in place of carbs..

Tomorrow is gonna be a hard hitting back workout for sure.. Now stem hiw long do i have to wait til thr caffeine starts releasing those fat cells?? Just 200 mg caffeine is enuff??

Endo results maybe monday poss wed.. Will be interested to see why my test is low.. Hope its not a pituitary tumor  :Smilie: 

Total Daily Macros:2030/300/75/50

----------


## Back In Black

200mg is a good start, see how you go with it. If you don't normally have a high caffeine intake then it should be sufficient. Pre fasted cardio I break a tab into 4 and I down it within 5 mins of the start. Pre lifting I have it whole about 20 mins before I start.

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok good deal.. well i got in my 45 min fasted cardio this am.. had to do it at 0430 which was not so fun but once i got going i was ok..thought about doing HIIT but i just didnt have it in me  :Smilie:  looking forward to lifting today since i havent been since tuesday.. hope everyone is doing well..

----------


## Back In Black

4.30!!!!!! Fair play, I cringe at doing it at 6.30 at this dark, wet & cold time of year. Guess it helps having your own cardio equipment in the house!

Just washed down a caffeine pill with coffee and off to do delts. Have a good workout, man.

----------


## --->>405<<---

whew! excellent back wkout today..think ive progressd in wt a tad.. will be able to keep bettr track now that im writing stuff down.. managed 235 x 6 for last set in deads which was a move up for me ... thats my weak exercise i can see.. never really done them.. 

yeh stem england can be glum can it not?  :Smilie:

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## --->>405<<---

well today was a bit challenging in the area of craving junk food  :Smilie:  hasnt been too much of a prob for me but today i really wanted like bacon cheese krystals or five guys fries or both.. also my wife i think is getting tired of me not taking her out to dinner cuz of my diet so im prob gonna have to start takn her out once / week and i guess ill just have to do my best to get the healthiest thing i can find on the menu.. if all else fails i can eat before we go then get a salad with only veggies on it and eat it with no dressing.. 

im about as thin as ive been in years with the exception of when i weighed 184... my buddy askd me today "what r u gonna do when u get all buff??" i said what do u mean? he said "what r u gonna do?" i said i dont know nothing i guess LOL... hes about 5'11' 240lbs with a 42 inch waist.. and a diabetic high blood pressure beer drinker.. his idea of breakfast is a bacon egg and cheese sandwich with hashbrowns and a large sweet tea.. it was tuff watching him eat his footlong sub tonite  :Smilie:  man i wanted a bite..

made it thru and ate my tuna and asparagus.. just keep picturing myself in 3 months..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i forgot to post yesterdays macros.. theyre a little low since ive switched protein powder brands.. stem take a look at my numbers and tell me if u think i need to bump them up.. im hitting good on all 3 macro types i think.. 

total daily macros:2129/305/101/51 59%P/19%C/22%F

----------


## --->>405<<---

also my previous "to date" have included 5 daily scoops whey... these new ones include only 2 daily scoops whey

----------


## --->>405<<---

well today is shoulders .. looking forward to that.. always liked wkn shoulders... couldnt drag myself out of bed again today for the 2nd sat in a row.. may try to fit in pwo cardio HIIT like i did last sat... tats about it.. back is a little sore and abs r definitely sore.. moving rite along..

----------


## Back In Black

> well i forgot to post yesterdays macros.. theyre a little low since ive switched protein powder brands.. stem take a look at my numbers and tell me if u think i need to bump them up.. im hitting good on all 3 macro types i think.. 
> 
> total daily macros:2129/305/101/51 59%P/19%C/22%F


Are these your new daily macro's? At least until you swap your protein again? TBH they are fine especially if you are going to refeed with carbs every 14 days or so.

Re: going out for dinner - definitely take your wife out. Does it have to be for dinner? Can it be something else. If it's dinner she'll prob not be happy if you eat b4 you go and just order a salad and have her feel guilty about ordering steak, fries and dessert. Just make the right choice for you. It may mean you miss one of your earlier carb but so be it.You won't be massively outside your macro's and there has to be some life balance. Maybe alternate dinner one week, movies the next or whatever tickles your tonsils.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Are these your new daily macro's? At least until you swap your protein again? TBH they are fine especially if you are going to refeed with carbs every 14 days or so.
> 
> Re: going out for dinner - definitely take your wife out. Does it have to be for dinner? Can it be something else. If it's dinner she'll prob not be happy if you eat b4 you go and just order a salad and have her feel guilty about ordering steak, fries and dessert.


tats funny stem ur rite.. women can be funny about stuff  :Smilie:  her fav place to go is carrabbas which is italian food.. they do have an excellent filet marsala and i could get it with veggies and a salad.. prob be able to keep carbs in hand but not sure about the fat.. prob high but very tasty.. good idea about alternating weeks.. shes not a big movie goer..

----------


## --->>405<<---

so "yes" is ur answer about new macros being a permanent thing with a refeed every 14 days.. which will prob be me takn wife out for dinnr

----------


## --->>405<<---

good shoulder wkout today.. also did pwo HIIT.. its pretty good doing it on the treadmill.. i like how the treadmill has a slight bit of bounce to it.. makes it a little easier on the joints :Smilie:  having a small bit of trouble finding a comfortable balance with the face pulls.. i guess cuz im standing up and the weight wants to pull me forward and i need to lean back.. got it dun.. put my foot on the seat and lean back.. cant really do it just standing on the floor unless u have a pointer?? i think i may chek it out on u tube again..

----------


## Back In Black

If you have something to brace your foot against do it, or if you want to try it sat down give it a go. I do mine standing but i sit down into it if that makes sense? And yeah, treadmill is much nice on the joints, I don't run on any other surface!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Total daily macros:2129/305/101/51

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well guys i just weighed in and did bf%and i have to say im very please with this weeks progress.. It almost seems too good to be true.. It prob is cuz i know the caliper method is not an exact science but still a very good week for me..

Last week weighed 200.4lb at 18.9% bf
This week weigh 197.8 at 16.8% bf

Thats 2.1% bf drop and 2.8 lb drop in 1week... I have completely stayed away from excess sodium which i coukdnt say a week ago  :Smilie: 

Starting weight: 96.6kg -89.7kg(today)=6.9kg lost total in 6 weeks

My lbm has actually climbed from its lowest of 73.7 last week to now 74.6 this week which is now only .6kg less than when i started.: 

Feeling good  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Mate, I know how hard you are working and I'm SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO pleased to see it is all paying off. Under 200 is a great achievement. Just lose the same fat amount again and you are gonna look awesome. 

Don't hang up too much on the caliper readings, they will vary from week to week anyway as your missus isn't an 'expert' at it, per se. But it's good to have a ball park. And you know we'll give you our opinion on bodyfat each time you post pics.

Keep on it dude, proud of you.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx SteM .. Hopefully the fat will keep dropping off steadily as it has been.. If so then 6 weeks from now i shoukd be seeing something ive never seen before  :Smilie: 

Took wife out to eat today to carrabbas(italian) .. Did the best i think i coukd.. Had fish with tomato basil vinegrette and a salad w lite vinegrette and spinach sauteed in evoo and garlic.. Had 1small piece of breadcrust dippd in evoo and water to drink.. Not a very tasty cheAt meal but prob not too bad for me..dont think i had alot of carbs in the meal... Other than tat i will prob end up eating 1200 cal of reg diet food today.. May shoot for this kind of day every other week.. Last week i lost 2.8 lbs and tat was the week after my cheat... Maybe it helpd?? Maybe i just wish it did  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well just finishD am fasted cardio.. Now im off to play in a golf tournament with my friend.. And yes i will have my "bag of food"  :Smilie:  gonna have to get in chest and bis tomorrow...

----------


## GirlyGymRat

Looks like u had a fab week with the scales. Congrats.

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## SlimmerMe

^^ x2!

----------


## Papiriqui

Good job on the weight drop 405, good progress. Keep it up bud!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx girl,slim,and pap  :Smilie:  

Now im just anxiously awaiting bloodwork fr endocrinologist  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i tell u this is one heck of a busy day.. 0500 woke up and did 45 min fasted cardio.. played in 18 hole golf tourney at 0900-1430 and then drove 2 hrs to take buddy home and get back into town and decided to work tonite instead of tomorrow morning so to kill time in between i went and lifted at 1730(chest and bis..xcellent wkout btw) and then went to work at 1900  :Smilie:  and i have to go home around 0300 and get up tomorrow and do fasted cardio again so i can be bak at work at 1300 tomorrow.. whew.. a little tired  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Busy boy, no wonder you're knackered all the time! Hopefully you'll get some rest soon.

Pleased you had a good workout and are keeping on top of everything. Commitment is key and I know you have it in spades, man.

Hope you placed in the golf!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Yeh stem we played best ball.. Shot 5 under as a team .. Do u Play?? 

Yeh i didnt end up getting off til 0430 and to bed at 0530... Already up and cant sleep amymore.. Will prob do cardio this am but Skip legs and do them tomorrow when ive had a bit more rest.. 

My carabbas meal hasnt affected my weight as i weighd 196.4 this am so iT is 1.4 lbs less than it was on sunday.. I may go to the bod pod b4 wk today to see where my bf has really gone... Oct 7 it was 26.6% according to that machine...

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well i was up for 24 hrs and then got 3 hrs sleep and still managed to do my 45 min am fasted cardio.. It went pretty easily too.. I think breathing wise im actually in dcent shape ... Maintain pretty good pace amd dont have prob breathing which has Always been wat i hated most about cardio.. Feeling O2 starved  :Smilie: 

So im happy.. Now off to work (again) for 1300 start... Prob will be there til 2300.. I will catch up on rest tonite and tomorrow... I hope...

----------


## Back In Black

> Yeh stem we played best ball.. Shot 5 under as a team .. Do u Play?? 
> 
> Yeh i didnt end up getting off til 0430 and to bed at 0530... Already up and cant sleep amymore.. Will prob do cardio this am but Skip legs and do them tomorrow when ive had a bit more rest.. 
> 
> My carabbas meal hasnt affected my weight as i weighd 196.4 this am so iT is 1.4 lbs less than it was on sunday.. I may go to the bod pod b4 wk today to see where my bf has really gone... Oct 7 it was 26.6% according to that machine...


Haven't played since I had my first back injury last year. Though I've had prescious little time this year anyway. Love the game but is so time consuming.

196.4!!!!!! Curious to see what the bod pod does say when you get to go next. And looking forward to next set of pics!

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh im curious too.. i dont think theres nearly as much diff in now pics vs the ones i took 3 weeks ago.. but ill be posting them up sunday...

----------


## Papiriqui

I was looking at all your photos yesterdy and maaaaaaan what a change!! From the first photo to the last ones you can definitely see the hard work and commitment, great great job!! An inspiration  :Smilie:  Keep it up...

----------


## --->>405<<---

Hey man thx pap.. I have been wkn hard for sure  :Smilie: 

Well now time for fasted cardio... 

Yesterdays total macros:1949/281/89/46 (ran out of cott cheese)

----------


## Papiriqui

Where do you guys get the cheese?? Do you get like big buckets or something or just the regular pint or whatnot at the supermarket?? Im goin to try costco to see if they sell it in bigger containers and save some money that way bc at the market is a lot for a little thing.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Oh and i made a mistake.. Next pic is 1 week fr this coming sunday..

Had a fantastic cardio session

----------


## --->>405<<---

Yeh ur rite pap i get mine at wAlmart for like almost 3 bucks..
I eat 1cup and i think there r like almost 2 cups/container.. Works out to a little over 3 containers/ week for me..

----------


## Papiriqui

Yeah thats what i figured! I'm going try and find it at other places like Costco, Bjays and stuff and perhaps they might have bigger containers, perhaps we can save some money.

----------


## Back In Black

Bjays? You really have somewhere called bjays's? LMFAO!!!!!!!

----------


## Papiriqui

BJ's i think is spelled but is pretty much the same as Costco and Sam's Club which is owned by Walmart. LMFAO also!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well legs was tuff today.. Pulld someth in back.. Not lower tho like below shoulder blades on left side.. Painful to take a deep breath.. Thnk it was front squats.. May not do them anymore.. If i do itll only be with 135.. I did it with 205 today.. Well see.. Not worth an injury... Still have 2 meals to eat.. And its 21:00... Been havn tat prob a fair amt lately... Did 225 on romanian deads for 3 sets of 6... Also did barbell split squats whi h was good.. Saw a guy who weighed 160lb doing it on u tube with 275.. Beast!

----------


## Back In Black

Bad news on the poss injury, hopefully it's a little twinge that will fix within 24hrs. I've had a similar thing in the past, more of an inconvenience than a hinderence. You'll know if it's injured on back day coz you'll feel it.

As far as running short on time for 6 meals, can I suggest you have a plan to fit your macro's into 5 meals and the days you think you can only get 5 meals in there is no panic. 

And I LOVE split squats with barbell. Some guys prefer the Bulgarian version but I feel much less balanced and subsequently use less weight. Sometimes (in summer usually) I sub my split squats for car park lunges.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Yeh i think its a twinge... Slightly better today already... Feels somewhat muscular... Todays supposd to be back day but im gonna wait til tomorrow.. Just do hiit today...

5 meal plan.. Hmm interesting.. Will work on tat today  :Smilie: 

I did get all food down yestrday btw..

----------


## Papiriqui

Good job 405, sorry to hear about the injury. Hope you get better soon.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well i laid off back today and did cardio only.. The gym i go to is old and the equipment isnt the best but u can get it done in there nonetheless.. So i decided to do HIIT on the treadmill.. Well the breaker kept tripping about 30 secs into sprint so i had to improvise and stumbled into an even better workout.. Instead of running 60 secs at 10mph flat i figured out if i put the incline on 4 and the speed at nine(wouldnt trip the breAker at 9mph) i could still maintain high intensity... So tats wat i did... 

#4 incline 9mph/60secs
#4 incline 3mph/45secs

Repeat 12x

Man tat was a killer wkout.. And best of all my back is only now about 20% as sore as it was when i started.. Think i may maintain the incline on all future HIIT sessions  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Yeah, hill running is an awesome workout. Same issue at my gym, it's great for lifting but the cardio equip is sadly lacking and the treads occasionallt trip. What is the max speed of your treads?

And variety in cardio is the way forward if you don't particularly enjoy it.

----------


## --->>405<<---

max speed 12mph.. would do it but i dont think breaker can handle it.. one treadmill trips on 10mph and the other trips on 9mph... but i tell u at 9mph on 4 incline it really works me esp doing it for 60sec/60sec...

----------


## --->>405<<---

well had an alarm clock malfunction again.. or maybe a wife malfunction  :Smilie:  either way no cardio this am.. will be doing back/abs today however.. ready to get it done.. lookslike the only thing standing in the way of me and normal test levels is now an MRI.. this process seems to be taking forever.. weight still dropping  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

> well had an alarm clock malfunction again.*Me too taday*. or maybe a wife malfunction  *Most days!* either way no cardio this am.. will be doing back/abs today however.. ready to get it done.. lookslike the only thing standing in the way of me and normal test levels is now an MRI.. this process seems to be taking forever.. weight still dropping


Back feeling better? Feel any different for missing a couple of sessions this week?

Current weight? ANy planned refeed coming up?

----------


## Papiriqui

SteM when you said refeed, what exactly do you mean?? Could you elaborate a little?? Sorry to ask this question in your thread 405.

So how is the back pain??? I want to k ow weight as well, you, SteM, GBrice, all my idols right now lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Well i laid off back today and did cardio only.. The gym i go to is old and the equipment isnt the best but u can get it done in there nonetheless.. So i decided to do HIIT on the treadmill.. Well the breaker kept tripping about 30 secs into sprint so i had to improvise and stumbled into an even better workout.. Instead of running 60 secs at 10mph flat i figured out if i put the incline on 4 and the speed at nine(wouldnt trip the breAker at 9mph) i could still maintain high intensity... So tats wat i did... 
> 
> #4 incline 9mph/60secs
> #4 incline 3mph/45secs
> 
> Repeat 12x
> 
> *Man tat was a killer wkout.. And best of all my back is only now about 20% as sore as it was when i started..* Think i may maintain the incline on all future HIIT sessions


after waking up today it feels good enuff to do back today as well.. the pain is actually now more towards the ribs.. weird.. not too bad though.. doesnt hurt to breathe  :Smilie:  thx for asking..

----------


## --->>405<<---

as far as the refeed yes i suppose ill do it on sunday after i weigh in.. weight today was 196... actually today is the only cardio i missed.. the other days i think i just had to substitute.. as far as lifting i didnt miss any days i just had to move them around.. today back and tomorrow shoulders which will complkete me for the week..

----------


## --->>405<<---

> *SteM when you said refeed, what exactly do you mean?? Could you elaborate a little??* Sorry to ask this question in your thread 405.
> 
> So how is the back pain??? I want to k ow weight as well, you, SteM, GBrice, all my idols right now lol


^^^ x2 (bad memory  :Smilie: )

----------


## Back In Black

405 is only on about 100g of carbs per day, so I've suggested a 'refeed of carbs every 14 days or so. Partly to kick metabolism a little and partly to refill glycogen stores and help preserve LBM. 40g of carbs over the 6 meals should do it.

Pap, my carbs are 160-180g per day. Refeed isn't necessary at thos figures.

----------


## Papiriqui

Thanks bud, i got it now, now i know what all of you are talking about when you say refeed lol.

EDIT: You guys working today or on holiday?? Anyways Happy Vet's Day to all.

----------


## --->>405<<---

40g/ meal good to know.. too bad it cant be 240g carbs from krispy kreme glazed doughnuts LOL  :Smilie:

----------


## Papiriqui

> 40g/ meal good to know.. too bad it cant be 240g carbs from krispy kreme glazed doughnuts LOL


hahaha ^ x2

----------


## Back In Black

Hmmm, not a fan of Krispy Kreme. Funnily enough I have been fancying plain sugared donuts for some time. Suspect they will be on my birthday weekend tasting menu! Seriously though, if you fancy a plain white bagel for breakfast that day you should have it.

So that's 16lbs or so lost in less than 7 weeks?

----------


## --->>405<<---

thats a big 10/4 good buddy  :Smilie:  i started at 213 and today was 196... so thats 17lbs.. a couple days ago i was 195 but in the last couple days i added some good ole worcestershire to my burgers again just cuz i needed something tasty and i rememberd from last time it would drop off in like 30 hrs so ill prob cut it out tomorrow for weigh in sunday  :Smilie: 

i dont think i look a whole lot difft from the last pics though.. maybe im finally starting to lose some back fat.. hahaha... whatever the pinch point by ur shoulderblade has yet to change since day 1  :Smilie:  and i think the one under the arm has just started dropping a bit.. the stomach and legs have droppd a fair amt as well as the one in the pec area... tricep is the same as well...

----------


## --->>405<<---

and stem have u not ever had a "hot" glazed krispy kreme doughnut strait from the conveyor belt?? if not then i think it would make a believer outta u.. if so then i suspect there must be something wrong with you LOL  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Ha ha, no never hot. Krispy Kreme is not a British thing but there is one in an expensive department store about an hour from me. Next time I'm there I'll request a hot one.

And there's nothing wrong with me, I adore all kinds of empty calories!

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL i know im just kidding  :Smilie:  they usually have the hot ones first thing in the morning when theyre being made.. it would be worth ur while when ur close by to stop in and if they dont have them hot then ask when they will be having hot ones and make it a point to get one.. u will be glad u did trust me  :Smilie:

----------


## Papiriqui

LOL i concur with my man 405, that will definitely bring you over to the dark side lol, They are the best, but also makes us like like this :-(

----------


## --->>405<<---

Does make us like that Pap if we overindulge  :Smilie:  i do however plan one day to sit down with 3 or 4 of em and a big glass of milk.. Prob after some chikn wings and french fries  :Smilie: 

Its funny rite now i consider it "splurging" to have worcestershire on my burger and hot sauce on my tuna LOL

Total daily macros: 2129/305/101/51

See yall tomorrow..

----------


## Papiriqui

Your right, have a good one bud!

----------


## Bill_boy2005

Nice tracking thread 405. I need to do the same for the accountability.

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh bill it makes for good progress.. i know if i continue to get on here and log everyday that means im also sticking to my plan.. also there are some cool guys on here u can make friends with over time  :Smilie:  its pretty cool..also if u log these guys will be up to speed with ur progress and be able to see where u may need to make some changes... its a win/win..

woke up this am and did 45 mins fasted cardio.. shoulders at lunch..

----------


## Back In Black

Just a thought, and I know you are a BUSY boy but, do you ever consider doing up to 60 mins fasted cardio?

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL i have considered it but havent done it mainly out of laziness i suppose  :Smilie:  that extra 15 mins in bed is nice and mentally i have worked my way thru the 45 minutes:
minutes 1-15 (getn warmd up)
minutes 15-22.5(halfway)
minutes 22.5-30 (30 puts me 2/3 of the ways)
minutes 30-40(hit it hard and then 5 to go)
minutes 40-45(usually keep hitting it hard cuz its only 5 more minutes  :Smilie: )

now if i go 60 ill have to revamp how i mentally go thru my workout LOL  :Smilie:  but i guess u think i should huh stem??  :Smilie: 
okok.. 60 it will be... ill start tomorrow ... 

thx buddy  :Wink:

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## --->>405<<---

i guess its about ntime to step things up a bit ..

----------


## Back In Black

Honestly mate it was just a thought. The numbers you are posting are great so I would leave as is. 60 mins is a ball ache (literally if done on a bike!)

Save the 60 mins for when your losses start slowing and keep enjoying those extra 15 in bed.

----------


## --->>405<<---

hey man no worries  :Smilie: 

i can do 60 or i can do 45 ... just finished shoulders and a great HIIT PWO.. that makes 2 cardio sessions today.. 

45 secs at 9mph on 4 incline x 8 sets
1min 15 sec walk at 3mph/4 incline in between

45 secs at 9mph on 5 incline x 2 sets
1min 15 sec walk at 3mph/5 incline in between

45 secs at 9mph on 6 incline x 1 set
1 min 15sec walk at 3 mph/6incline in between

45 secs at 9mph on 7 incline x 1 set
1 min 15 sec walk at 3mph to complete

whew im through now  :Smilie:  wanted to get rid of some of the water i was holding onto from the worcestershire.. dropped 2 lbs in 25 mins on that workout  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

where did everybody go?? 

total daily macros:2129/305/101/51

----------


## Back In Black

> where did everybody go?? 
> 
> total daily macros:2129/305/101/51


Er, bed and work.

Good HIIT workout. If you start 'liking' inclines here's one for you. Pick a speed you are comfortable jogging at for a long time. Start at 1% incl. At the end of every minute leave the pace as it is but increase the incline by 1%. See how many minutes you can go for!

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## --->>405<<---

:Smilie:  sounds interezting stem.. Will give tat a try sometime .. Not real big on steady state running anymore.. I enjoy the extreme pain / brief relief structurE of HIIT.. Steady state i prefer more on the elliptical.. But i understand increasing the incline will make it get harder and harder...

Well weigh in:195.8 at 16.4% LBM:74.3
Last week: 197.8 at 16.8% LBM:74.6

I think i may have waitd a little long to discontinue the sodium.. Will prob go low sodium all this week since next sunday is pic post day  :Smilie:  am pleasd i still droppd 2 lbs and .4% bf

Will prob go to bodpod tuesday...

The rest of today:no workouts (have to work at 1300)

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## --->>405<<---

Also stem im doing the refeed today and my carbs should come in at about 240-250g

That good???

----------


## Back In Black

Yep that's good. Either split equally over 5 or 6 meals. If you go a little higher no problemo. As long as they are relatively clean.

Steady state is boring I agree. The idea I mentioned just shakes things up a little. You can also do it by increasing the speed slightly with each incline increase.

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## --->>405<<---

hey stem does relatively clean include french fries? LOL  :Smilie: 

im just upping intake of what i eat already.. instead of 1/2 cup oats and 4 oz yam all day i get 1 1/2 cup oats and 16 oz yam

----------


## Back In Black

Interested for you to note over the next couple of days how you feel in your workouts and generallywith this carb feed.

Good weight loss again this week. People starting to tell you you lost weight?

----------


## --->>405<<---

not really.. except for the guys who have seen my pics.. and one lady last nite told me i didnt need to lose any weight after i explaind to her why i was getn cottage chees out of the fridge at work  :Smilie:  i mainly work around guys so u know how that goes.. one of my close buddies seems to get irritated at how much im on this website  :Smilie:  he says its a waste of time.. course hes got prob a 50 inch midsection  :Smilie:  i said well ive lost 17 lbs in the last 7 weeks how many have u lost?? 

ill be sure to tell u how these xtra carbs do me over the next few days... as well as ill be interested to see for myself..

ive only eaten 2 meals and already have consumed 100g... feel pretty good rite now ..

----------


## --->>405<<---

also im assuming on this refeed day my total daily cals r gonna be like 600 over my typical day.. i do just eat everything i usually eat rite and just add the extra 150g carbs on top of that???

----------


## Back In Black

> also im assuming on this refeed day my total daily cals r gonna be like 600 over my typical day.. i do just eat everything i usually eat rite and just add the extra 150g carbs on top of that???


Oh yes!

----------


## Papiriqui

Good progress 405, continue on the path!!

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## --->>405<<---

Like this refeed thing.. It seems like a ton of food  :Smilie:  ill be sure to post macros at end of day

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well refeed day is dun.. Still have 1 more meal to go b4 bed.. But i went ahead and pluggd in proper macros..

Total daily macros:2831/322/251/56. 46%P/36%C/18%F

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i woke up this am weighing 197.4  :Smilie:  thats 1.6 lb heavier than yesterday ... cardio session i killed it today.. usually burn 700 cals at 2500 revs in 45 mins.. today i burned 785 cals at 2735 revs in 45 mins.. major difference in how i felt...about 5 rpms difference .. am interested to see how my weight session goes as well.. have chest today.. im sure the xtra lbs is cuz of food and water.. 

stem got a question.. now for 7 weeks i have given up my french vanilla creamer and just beeen drinkn my coffee black.. yesterday my wife brought home some sugar free powdered creamer that has no carbs and 25 cals/serving.. do u think itd be ok to use 1 serving of that per day ??? my coffee is much better.. i know the cals dont matter just wasnt sure if there could be something else inn there that would..

----------


## Back In Black

Extra weight down to food in systtem and water being held in thos muscles. Hopefully it should mean you have a couple of good days in the gym.

What are the ingredients of the creamer and where are the 25 cals coming from? ANy reason you don't add a splash of milk to your coffee once a day?

----------


## --->>405<<---

had a good lift session.. got an extra rep here and there from last week... no real gain in weight.. 

ingredients im not sure..will chk tonite.. maybe it did have a few carbs but no sugar.. 

i like the french vanilla creamer milk doesnt add any real flavor..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Long day..

Total daily macros:2020/280/96/51

----------


## --->>405<<---

Stem Creamer is the following:maltodextrin,partially hydrogenated palm oil,natural and artificial flavor,sodium caseinate(a milk derivitive), dipotassium phosphate,silicon dioxide, mono and diglycerides,aspartame,acesulfame potassium, soy licithin.

Serving size:1 tbsp

Calories:25
Total fat: 1.5g
Total carbs:3g
Fiber:0
Sugar:0
Protein:0

Back down to 195.4 today.. Wat do u think stem this ok 1serving/day?????

----------


## Back In Black

Well, it's not an ingredient list I would personally want to put in my body but if you're ok with it. You can factor it into your macro's if you like, I know how exact you like to be.

I have 3-4 cups tea/coffee per day and don't factor them in to mine. The difference is so small for skim milk.

Your cals look a bit light for yesterday?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Yeh i ran out of shrimp.. Yeh i realize there are chemicals in it but is it gonna hinder my fatloss is the question... As far as chemicals go i suppose tat needs some evaluating as well

----------


## Back In Black

An extra 25 cals a day at your macro's and total cals won't matter. Go for it, you've gotta enjoy something that goes in your mouth when cutting!

----------


## Papiriqui

> An extra 25 cals a day at your macro's and total cals won't matter. Go for it, you've gotta enjoy something that goes in your mouth when cutting!


^ x2

----------


## --->>405<<---

Sounds good  :Smilie:  well today i did no workout at all... Had to go get mri on pituitary and the came home and cleand up garage so i can park my car in it :Smilie:  so i did accomplish some stuff... Now im gonna lay on the couch until time to go to bed  :Smilie:

----------


## Papiriqui

I envy you right now lol, rest day here and there aint bad. Enjoy !

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx pap.. Yeh i dont get alot of them.. Tomorrow i have fasted cardio and legs in the am and then 1300 start at work so i wont get home til prob 2300 and be up again at 0530 at the lAtest for thursday  :Smilie:  looking forward to thanksgiving.. Were going to a restaurant tat has really good food .. No one plate meal for me tat day.. Im gonna hit it HARD!!!

Total Daily Macros:2187/313/101/53

----------


## Papiriqui

2300 wow i feel for you buddy, good luck and happy workout!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well my boat cancelled again today so i have nuttn to do except cardio and lift  :Smilie:  just woke up...

----------


## Papiriqui

Your boat?? Well glad you are having a breather, we kind of need it from time to time, i know i do, feeling super sleepy at 5am in the gym!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Yeh i work at a port pap.. Have to go in tonite at 1900 now and prob finish at 0500 and be bak at 1300 tomorrow  :Smilie: 

Legs was a great wkout today.. I think i may stay a little lite on legs and do more reps.. Tat wAy indont hurt meself.. I see alot of room for injury with real heavy legs and its not worth it to me  :Smilie:  got it in good.. Havn a little trubble stayn off the salt... Hot sauce and mustard in particular...  :Smilie:  need to bak off aftr today since sunday is pic day..

----------


## Back In Black

> Yeh i work at a port pap.. Have to go in tonite at 1900 now and prob finish at 0500 and be bak at 1300 tomorrow 
> 
> Legs was a great wkout today.. I think i may stay a little lite on legs and do more reps.. Tat wAy indont hurt meself.. I see alot of room for injury with real heavy legs and its not worth it to me  got it in good.. Havn a little trubble stayn off the salt... Hot sauce and mustard in particular...  need to bak off aftr today since sunday is pic day..


Injury prospects plus the fact my legs respond better to higher reps is why I don't go too heavy on squats. 10-12 reps one week and 15-20 the next.

Honestly don't sweat on a little bit of salt. It's not gonna hurt at this stage. It just might make a difference on your weight if you take in alot the day before a weigh in.

----------


## Papiriqui

What do you guys call heavy?? I thought higher reps were more than that SteM, i do my sets of 10, so i guess i could go up on weight and do 8 reps?? SteM and 405 do you guys do or ever done box squat?? Thats what i do and let me tell you i have never felt better while squatting. No lower back pressure, no knee pressure, nothing, just hamstrings, gluteus and quads....

----------


## Back In Black

Heavy reps for me are 4-8, depending what workout cycle i do. Currently 6-8 reps on my heavy week and 10-12 reps on my light week. My next cycle will be 4-6 reps alt with 8-10. Except legs as above.

Box squats have their place but they aren't for me. Generally you would use less weight but I actually find normal squats better for my lower back. I have no issue with 'tucking under' the lower back.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Im a little tired for conversation rite now.. Just got home from work and have to be up in 4 hrs to go bak so ill talk to yall then.. 

Total daily macros: 2129/305/101/51

----------


## --->>405<<---

Yeh pap heavy for me is 4 - 6 and lite high rep is 10-12

Was a long day yesterday.. Workd from 1900-0730 and bak at 1300-0000 so i doubt ill get in any cardio today .. I may do HIIT at 1800 break.. Have. Hard time not doing anything...

----------


## Back In Black

Fair play man. Fitting it in around sh!tty hours is a task but is what seperates the men from the boys. Does your wife ever see you?

Keep it going the next few days mate, I'm away on a trip to London but looking forward to the pics when I get back.

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh stem i remember u said ur wife was takn u there for ur bday? or something.. have a good time man.. yeh my wife sees me occasionally  :Smilie:  i will be cutting back around february or so to more normal working hrs.. i will be doing some HIIT today at 1800 ... always seem to have to do HIIT the day after legs  :Smilie: 

will keep rolling hard and the pics will be up sunday  :Smilie:

----------


## Papiriqui

Yeah bud is hard but i think as long as you meep the diet going you will be okay, main thing is you are not quitting!!

SteM i'm going to miss you bro, dont gooooooo!!! Lol Have a great time man, you certainly deserve it...

----------


## --->>405<<---

Shoot no pap never gonna quit this time  :Smilie: 

Stil gotta long way to go to sub 12%

----------


## Papiriqui

Thats the spirit!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well no am cardio again today.. sleep instead.. will be doing back at lunch though.. got on scale this am and weight was only down 0.4 lbs from last sunday.. have been eating alot of salt and i have gotten cardio in everyday except tuesday so i hope its just the salt.. dont like it  :Smilie:

----------


## Papiriqui

Why are you eating a lot of salt??

----------


## --->>405<<---

WELL im eating hot sauce and worcestershire on some of my food cuz im getn a little bored and tired of the diet  :Smilie:  ive been on it now for 63 days with only 1 cheat meal..i wouldnt say its alot necessarily but more than none  :Smilie:  itd be nice if i could start cheating maybe once every 2 weeks or something.. instead of once per month...im waiting on permission from SteM  :Wink:

----------


## Papiriqui

In what do you use the worcestershire and hot sauce on?? The chicken?? If so i can give you some spice seasoning which are fantastic, lots of flavor, for sure you wont think about cheating  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

hey thatd be great man!! yeh i use hot sauce on chicken and worcestershire on burger

----------


## --->>405<<---

Total daily macros:2129/305/101/51

----------


## --->>405<<---

Good shoulder and HIIT wkout today... Tats about it...Havn some pain in shoulders so i went a little lite..

----------


## Papiriqui

Go to your local super market and get these seasonings from Mc Cormick, Hamburger, StrakHouse Onion Burger, SmokeHouse Maple, BBQ, i have a coffee grinder i bought just to grind spices and stuff and what i did was grinded these spices and made them almost the consistency of a powder, i change them up, you can use them all for either a steak, burger, chicken, whatever. Try them, you wont be dissapointed. They are like 2 bucks each or less. Hope you like them  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Good deAl thx man ! Im notvery ********** sometimes when it comes to cooking  :Smilie:  i can grill steak and ribs and chk wings with the best of em but when dieting i defer to hot sauce and mustard LOL

----------


## Papiriqui

Im the opposite i can cook the crap out of anything, but trust me you will like these, be deliverate with them and you will remember me when you get your first bite  :Smilie:

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## --->>405<<---

Will do i told my wife and shes gonna get it tomorrow .. Thx again man ..

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## --->>405<<---

Ok last week wt:195.8 at 16.4%
this week wt:195.0 at 15.8%
Lbm 74.5 

Although i only lost .8 lb my bf went down 0.6% which is good i suppose.. I think now is where im getting to the point where things get a little tuffer... Im pretty close to a Plateau if history repeats itself.. I am thinking of gibing it another week or 2 and see how things go and then maybe adding 15 more mins of fasted cardio as well as possibly taking eca stack if i indeed slow down.. Stem?? 

Will post pics this afternoon ... Took them this am...

----------


## Back In Black

Mate, your weight loss appears to have slowed this week because of your refeed last weekend. Suspect you will drop 2lbs or so again this coming week. And a 0.6% drop in bodyfat in 1 week is pretty awesome.

Cheat every 2 weeks? In theory, your refeed is your cheat to a degree. Ideally you wouldn't really add extra fat to the carb meals but it won't make a huge difference in the big scheme of things. You can get down to 10-12% even with a weekly cheat. It just takes a little longer. The issue people have with cheating is that they go all out balls to the wall. If it is a controlled cheat it can actually be beneficial to your progress.

Anyway, after my 3 day cheat this weekend, I'm a fine one to lecture!!!!

Now, where's them photo's?

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## --->>405<<---

yeh i hope cuz of the refeed.. i wouldnt consider it much of a cheat cuz all i do difft is eat more oats and more yams  :Wink:  oh boy!!stop the presses!

will talk to u more bout these cheats.. if i can get to sub 12% cheating once every week or 2 it may be better.. this waiting a month thing is making it tuff.. wearing on me.. i eat the same 6 meals 7 days/week for a month strait.. i know boo hoo hoo rite  :Smilie:  poor little me....

glad to hear u had a good weekend i didnt think ud be bak til tomorrow.. 

finally got puter working so here goes the battle with the attachments..im gonna do them in 3 posts so itll be easier to do for me ..

1st 3 pics r original,4weeks,today:

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## --->>405<<---

2nd set is original pic,today

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## --->>405<<---

3rd set is 4weeks,today

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## --->>405<<---

well like i said 4 weeks ago .. i hope the next 4 weeks is as productive as the last 4 weeks... what do u think?

----------


## Bill_boy2005

Good job on the dieting bro. Making some great progress.

----------


## Back In Black

Alot of difference in stomach and chest area. Really starting to see how things are gonna look for you now. This really is excellent progress and pics are a great way to account for that progress. Honestly mate, just keep going as you are, you are definitely on top of this.

I hear you on the cheat meals and your sanity. You guys have thanksgiving this week? There'll be a cheat there yes? And Xmas, there'll be a cheat few days there too? Take a cheat at the mid point of these 2 events also. A word on my weekly cheat - it is always a Saturday night (1 meal only) and it will contain carbs that I have removed from one of my earlier meals. It will be a relatively normal meal but will start with maybe some crisps (chips to you) and finish with dessert. I then miss my final meal of the day. I reckon this gives me a surplus of about 600cals on my normal day but would only be a couple of hundred over maintenance cals.

BTW I put on over 4lbs in 72hrs over the weekend!

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## --->>405<<---

LOL on the 4 lbs over the weekend  :Smilie:  sounds like yall ate well .. 

yeh im fairly pleased with my results so far.. 

thxgiving will def be a cheat meal in there.. prob a cheat meal and a half  :Wink:  i have to serve dinner at church at 1800 and am having my dinner at 1300 so ill prob nibble again then.. and then christmas will be good also.. i am really gonna try to keep myself in chk thru the holidays...that sounds good though about splitting the diff between xmas and thanx w a cheat meal.. once i get thru the holidays we can talk again about how im gonna cheat in the future..

as for the ECA i guess i should hold out on that as well ?? was gonna see how my weight loss continues over the next 2 weeks and maybe consider adding it if it slows .. i suppose only dropping 1lb this week doesnt matter really since my bf droppd 0.6% rite which means it didnt necessarily slow..i may have gaind a little muscle ?

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## --->>405<<---

> Good job on the dieting bro. Making some great progress.


bill thx man i appreciate it ... im hoping once i get my test levels up ill see some good results as well.. in a way im playing with a handicap with free test being 7.3(8.7-25.1) and total being 349(348-1197)

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## Back In Black

Fairly pleased? You lost pretty much 18lbs in 8 weeks!!!!

ECA is your choice and yours alone. Losing over 2lbs a week isn't ideal as it will likely impact more on you LBM. So, until your losses are (regularly) dropping below 2lbs/week I would personally hold off. I know you are keen to to get this weight off asap but slow and steady will win this.

See how you go with your TRT first. Trying too many compounds at once and you won't know what's giving you the greatest benefit. 

Any workouts today?

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh i suppose im decently pleased  :Smilie:  ive been trying almost as hard as i can .. 

ECA i think ill hold off like u said and see what the test does.. im hoping to be on it within the next 2 weeks or so.. 

u know it man 45 mins am fasted cardio at 0430 and chest and bis at lunch  :Smilie:

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## Papiriqui

Wow 405 you dont cease to amaze me man, great job!! Great progress!!

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## --->>405<<---

thx pap.. my wife should be getting the spices today so hopefully i can lay off the hot sauce and mustard  :Smilie:  i thought u were gonna post some pics pap??? u could take them urself in front of a mirror like i do...

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## Papiriqui

Yeah after seeing yours thats exactly what i will do tonight because if i wait for someone to take them i'll post them once my six pack is out lol. I'll post tonight some front facing ones and when i get a chance i'll post some posing back and legs and stuff to really see the difference a few months from now. Yeah im sure you will like the spices, if i like them and i am super picky as you can tell, pretty sure tou will too.

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## --->>405<<---

Well the old shoulder is giving me a bit of pain so its gonna be lite weight on chest and shoukder days for awhile.. Mri came bak good so ive got the go ahead on trt.. Awaiting instruction on first injection  :Smilie: 
Kinda bummd bout shoulder but hopefully lite wt will let it heal or watever.. Surgery doesnt alwYs fix cuz ive had prob aftr prob ever since i first hurt it and got cut on... Other than that wkout went ok... I can do the weight but it hurts at top And bottom of reps on bench...

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## Papiriqui

Sorry to hear that buddy! Hope the pains goes aways and you get better soon  :Smilie:

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## --->>405<<---

Thx pap

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## --->>405<<---

well woke up at 0430 (ugh) and did my 45 mins fasted cardio.. the tuff part is just getting outta the bed and putting on my clothes... once ive dun that the rest is not much of a prob  :Smilie:  got legs today at lunch.. have been doing dips also to work tris and thinking of dropping it cuz it does put alot of strain on the shoulder.. apparently i need to baby it more than i have been.. i like 1 handed tri pushdowns which i also do in a superset with the dips.. anyone got a good suggestion for an alternative good tri exercise to replace dips that will give my shoulder a break?? skullcrushers perhaps??

----------


## Papiriqui

Skull crushers, cables push down w/ both hands, single hand pull down, rope, any seated tricep machine, i do an excercise. With cables i dont know the name, standing up, face front away from cables, arm parallel to floor, the arm comes back to like a 90 degree and the you push forward. Not sure if u got it, love this excersice.

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## Back In Black

Close grip bench is my alternative. I do with a straight bar but you could use an EZ bar. Def drop the dips!

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## --->>405<<---

EZ bar?? is that the one with like the W shape in the middle? a "curl bar"?

----------


## Papiriqui

Yeah 405 thats the one!

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## Back In Black

Just make sure your grip isn't that close. Lower the bar with your elbows by your sides. Your wrists should touch the outer side of your chest, that's roughly a shoulder width grip.

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## --->>405<<---

yeh i think ill try out the close grip bench... ive done it before.. i dont know how low i can go ill just have to see.. i may be on lite weight for awhile til the pain goes away..i have been going pretty hard up til now with the weight..

how about alternative exercises for chest besides bench??? r there any that work the same muscles???

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## Papiriqui

Push ups lol

----------


## Back In Black

Well, dumbbells are generally nicer on shoulders than bars, but you use db's anyway. Try decline pressing, various incline angles, try flyes at different angles. Lighten the load and increase reps for a couple of weeks. Have a week off chest. Various things you can work around just depends what's comfy.

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## AaronJM1984

good job so far!

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## --->>405<<---

thx aaron i appreciate it man :Smilie: 

LOL u should see our decline bench stem... mainly its at the top of the movement.. moreso on incline than flat.. ill play with it and see what is comfy  :Smilie: and maybe reduce the angle of incline a bit .. go lighter and more reps.. i dont necessarily wanna be huge anyways.. my size or whatever is pretty good anyways.. i mainly want to be cut and chiseled  :Smilie:

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## --->>405<<---

Well day is dun.. Started TRT tonite.. Got first inject in me .. Hopefully b4 long i will no longer be playing with a handicap  :Smilie:  tomorrow am fasted cardio and prob tats it til friday...

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## Papiriqui

Good job bud!

----------


## Back In Black

> thx aaron i appreciate it man
> 
> LOL u should see our decline bench stem... mainly its at the top of the movement.. moreso on incline than flat.. ill play with it and see what is comfy and maybe reduce the angle of incline a bit .. go lighter and more reps.. i dont necessarily wanna be huge anyways.. my size or whatever is pretty good anyways.. i mainly want to be cut and chiseled


Well, at least you have a decline bench! Shouldn't moan, powerlifters own my gym so there are loads of bars, weights, dumbells and power racks. Not worth knocking your shoulder out for months just do what you can, and if you can't do anything then don't for a week or 2. It won't set you back that far.

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## --->>405<<---

:Smilie:  a week or two!!? I cant do that SteM  :Wink:  i think ill be ok just need to go lighter.. Those 90lb dbs can put alot of pressure on the shoulder.. Think ill stop at 70... Just do 15-20 reps  :Smilie:

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## Papiriqui

Do dumbells w/ palms facing inside, i think that way it puts even less pressure on shoulder, 405 SteM is right, sometimes is better to stop for 2 weeks or a month than rather not be able to lift more than 30 lbs ever again!!

This is a good time to start improvising all different variations of chest and just stick with the ones that put less pressure on the shoulder.

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## --->>405<<---

yeh ill have to work on figuring that out ..i dont have an injury its just inflamed inside.. thats what they told me when they did surgery.. inflammation and arthritis (which they ground off)

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## Back In Black

Don't know if this is a silly question but...... do you take anti-inflammatory's and do they help. Is the inflammation seperate from, or caused by, the arthritis. If the latter do you take any joint 'medication'?

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## --->>405<<---

no i dont take anything.. maybe a little of both.. they ground my collarbone shorter than it actually was to keep it from rubbing some other bone.. i think where it was rubbing is where the arthritis came from.. said it may take awhile for that bone grinding to heal.. but its been 7 months.. it feels a touch aggravated.. what do u suggest??? for antiinflammatory and joint medication?? and i need to start fish oil 2.. wat kind of fish oil i need to get? wont that help also?? these r the areas i can be lazy.. :Smilie:  yeh ill wake up at 430 and do 45 mins cardio but i dont feel like taking 10 minutes to stop at the store and buy joint stuff.. i guess i looke thru everything from will it contribute to fatloss?? and if no then i dont bother with it.. need to fix that//

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## SlimmerMe

*Have a Great Thanksgiving 405~*

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## Back In Black

Omega 3 fish oil can help with arthritis but I think it's better for rheumatoid rather than osteo. But it takes time to kick in, several weeks in fact. You'll need about 6g per day. There are plenty of other benefits too - heart and brain health, keep the blood a little thinner. Oh, and it may help in fat loss.

I did read at some point about a recommendation for additional vitamin E to help prevent oxidisation.

There is the option to use glucosamine, chondroitin and msm. Again they take time to work and must be used continuously for their benefit. I don't remember the amounts of each that you would need to take for them to work synergistically but it's something like 1500mg glucosamine, 750mg chondroitin and i don't remember the msm. 

Maybe ask your doc or stick a post in the over 40 (I know you're not!) and see what recommendations you get.

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## --->>405<<---

Thx for the good suggestions stem.. The extent of ur knowledge never ceases to amaze me  :Smilie:  i will look into all those tomorrow.. 

As for yesterday i had family spend the night and enjoyed chicken wings and french fries  :Smilie:  i must say im paying for it this morning  :Smilie:  i guess the old tummy isnt used to tat kind of food anymore... Today i also plan to eat well and the bak on the diet again tomorrow... Its funny it seems i appear leaner in the mirror today than yesterday... I do weigh 196 but im not so concernd about the scale as i am the mirror ... 

Happy thxgiving to all  :Smilie:  see yall tomorrow...

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## Papiriqui

Happy Thanksgiving buddy, have fun with the fam and be safe  :Smilie:

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## Back In Black

Some may say it's a mis-spent adulthood gaining this knowledge for none other than personal gain. But it's (one of) my hobby and I love learning about it. Though I did look into the whole treatment thing for my father in law. But he's a special case, he has gout as well and we're trying to treat that through diet.

But I also have no ACL in my left knee and have been advised I'll like have osteoarthritis in years to come so, in reality, I should start dosing up myself pretty soon.

A combination of the mirror, scales and somebody being ultra honest with you is the best gauge of your progress. And the camera, of course.

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## --->>405<<---

Well stem i depend on u for that ultra honesty my friend  :Smilie: 

Also my mom gave me some osteo bi-plex i think 2 bottls for my joints ill get it out of car and retype about it then..

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## Back In Black

Interesting to see th ecompound list. I remember 1500mg Glucosamine, 1200mg chondroitin and msm as you wish. The msm is an untested study I believe although calcium is also recommended for better absorbtion. Not sure whether you split the dose to 2 or 3 x per day or if you can get the same benefits as a one off.

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## --->>405<<---

A funny thing happnd today stem.. While we were eatn thxgiv dinnr my father in law askd my mom wat they did to celebrate thxgiv in england(where my mom is from) .. I said its an american holiday LOL  :Smilie:  

Anyways we got on subject of holidays and other countries and my mom told me yall have one calld guy faulk day or someth like that about a guy who tried to burn down parliament or something??? 

Will post the ingredients of osteo tomorrow when im bak on saddle again  :Wink:

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## Back In Black

Ah remember, remember the fifth of November. It's the date we celebrate 'Bonfire Night'. It's not a holiday as such, just an event where people (or big organised displays) have bonfires and fireworks to celebrate the fat that Guy Fawkes and his conspirators didn't blow up the Houses Of Parliament in 1605. He was one a bunch of people involved but he was the only one at the scene on the night in question. He was then tortured and executed and became infamous. 

Not that anybody cares about the story, just about the fireworks and toffee apples!

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## --->>405<<---

Funny.. Yeh thats how christmas is here i think for the most part.. Its all about santa claus and presents and pressure to spend money on people ... NOT what it is supposd to be at all.. 

Well i woke up this am and got in my 45 mins fasted cardio in.. Needless to say i had plEnty of energy to get thru my workout after all the sugar i ate yesterday.. Weighed 196.4 this am.. So i gaind 1.4 lbs from wed morning(the last time i weighd b4the thxgiv eatn began) will be interested to see how long it takes me to get bak to 195.. Maybe this little eatn binge will help me break past 195 cuz i seem to be stuk there.. My body appears to be leaner nonetheless.. 

Ok osteo bi-flex:serv size-3caplets
Vit c:60mg(100%)
Manganese:2mg(100%)
sodium:25mg(1%)
glucosamine hcl:1500mg
Joint shield proprietary blend:1350mg
Chondrointin/msm complex:1250mg
5-loxin akba boswellia serrata extract:100mg
Boron:3mg

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## Back In Black

Ha ha, Christmas is like that alot here too. Though I am insistent that my family (me, the Mrs and my 18mth old girl) will have a far more traditional Christmasses.

Bi-flex looks about right. Not sure what might be in the blends but the important things are there. Supposedly it can take month(s) for it to start working and needs to be continous so I'd suggest you stock up and your next lot whether it be bi-flex or the 'raw' ingredients.

Hope you had a good thanksgiving, mate, we'll drop you below 190 by Christmas!

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## --->>405<<---

Yeh stem i had a great thxgiving.. Thx man.. Ate very well almost as mu h as i wanted of watever i wanted.. Fat carbs sugar .. Everything  :Smilie:  now im bak on trak for another 5weeks.. I may have. Small cheat in middle but itll depend on my progress between now and then... I hope u can help me get below 190 for sure.. When i flex in the mirror i can start to see the beginning of some abs covered up by a nice layer of fat... Another 10lbs of fat i think may help them show alot better... Def gonna need ur assistance  :Smilie:

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## --->>405<<---

Had a good bak wkout today as well...plenty of energy (duh) and felt relatively strong.. Was itching to get bak into gym.. Diet is bak on trak also... Total daily macros: 2130/305/101/51

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## --->>405<<---

well shoulders today.. may try to fit in HIIT after .. shoulder wkout usually goes pretty kwik..thats bout it.. weight was 197.something .. went up again ..

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## --->>405<<---

i guess maybe the 150mg test cyp i injected tuesday may have affected weight possible as well..

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## Papiriqui

Keep up the good work bud!!

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## Papiriqui

Hey what ever happened to the spices?? Did you or you wife ever got around and bough them?

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## --->>405<<---

Yeh we got them i like em alot! Thx man  :Smilie:  had some on my burger today.. She didnt put any on my chicken so i havento eat this batch then shell put it on the next batch.. She thought i just wanted it on burgers.. Also i switched to tobasco (hotter = i use less and has same sodium as texas pete ) 

Had good shoulder wkout today and then got in HIIT pwo .. Diet going well again.. 

Weight still holding at 197.2.. Safe to say thxgiving negated this week  :Smilie:  i dont think im fatter though than i was wednesday.. Will be interested to see how bf chk goes tomorrow...

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## Papiriqui

Well i'm glad you like them buddy!! Glad i could help in some way. Definitely will like them even more once you try it on the chicken... Don't worry about the weight, it will come off as long as you stay the course, and you are ;-)

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## --->>405<<---

Well woke up this am went over to the scale and got on and was down to 194.8  :Smilie: 
Startd wed at 195.0 so it tiok me til today to get bak under 195.0 from thxgiving.. (weightwise)

Also had wife do bf and well :
Last week wt:88.45kg at 15.8%bf = 74.47kg LBM
Today  :Smilie:  wt:88.36kg at 14.22%bf = 75.8kg LBM 

Lbm went up 1.33kg!!
Bf% droppd 1.58% !!

Pretty miraculous numbers .. Especially considering what i ate wednesday and thrusday  :Smilie: 
The only other thing different is i started test cyp at 150mg last tuesday but it was only my first injection.. Either way im very pleased... Maybe i should eat thxgiving dinnr and chicken wings and fries every week  :Smilie:  i did however ferl as though i was looking leaner in the mirror nonetheless... I was gonna do fasted cardio today which is usually an off day but after my results came in i decided to eat breakfast and keep it an off day  :Smilie:

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## chitownhoker

Wow, just read through this log....GREAT WORK!! this obviously is not an easy transition and i applaud you for your success........isn't it amazing how much keeping a blog helps keep you accountable.....you got hundreds of us watching you so keep up the great work!

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## --->>405<<---

Hey thx Chi i appreciate ur comment man  :Smilie:  i tell u ive learned a ton already and im only now beginning my 3rd month.. I started this log to not only keep me accountable and have my ups and downs recorded but also if i was missing something that someone else mite be able to see where i went wrong it could be pointed out to me.. Also others on here may be able to get something out of my documentation :Smilie:  im feeling very good rite now especially after seeing thus weeks bf reading.. Its proof u cant just go by the scale!!!

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## --->>405<<---

well not alot to post tonite.. didnt do anything today except keep my diet and go to work,, went in at 1300 and prob be here til 0500..yay  :Wink:  that means ill have to work tomorrow nite too so ill have to adjust workout schedule tomorrow.. and no im not gonna let working all nite keep me from wkn out! prob wake up around noonish and get cardio out of the way then lay around til 1600 and make sure i have to work and then get in chest and bis at 1700 then go to work at 1900 ... anyways..

Total Daily Macros:2139/297/101/55

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## --->>405<<---

Well woke up this am at 0930.. Got to leave wk last nite at 0200 so tat was nice.. Just finished 45min fasted cardio.. Went pretty well considering i only got about 5-6 hrs of broken sleep on the couch  :Smilie:  now im gonna go fix breakfast.. 

SteM if u could chk out post 533 above.. Wanna get ur take on it.. I am aware bf caliper readings rnt always accurate and i also know itd be dang near impossible to put on over 1kg muscle in a week as well as lose over 1% bf in a week let alone do both in the same week but its def gotta be a good sign...

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## Back In Black

You'll get the odd 'blip' in weekly readings, we all do from time to time. I remember barely losing 1lb in over a month and then, within a week, I lost 4lbs. Didn't do anything differently to diet, lifestyle or training.

Best thing to do is this - plot a graph. Include on the graph - weight, LBM and bodyfat, all in lbs against time. As long as your ups and downs are fairly consistent (which they are I think) then you are ok.

Feeling anything from the test yet?

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## --->>405<<---

Interesting idea.. My wife has a puter program that stored all my weigh-ins and has my weight bf and the date.. Sweet idea  :Smilie:  i dont think im feeling anything fromthe test yet(shot2 tomorrow) except for my libido .. Which was very good up until luke 2 weeks ago then it just went down like 90%... Its bak up now  :Wink:  pardon the pun LOL

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## Papiriqui

I think i'm going to do this as well except for bf and lbm, i'll add those every time i do the bodpod. I keep a log on my phone every time i weight myself, but no graph so i'll add this to my excel spreadsheet for the diet!! Good tip SteM!!

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## --->>405<<---

Well not alot to say.. Days dun.. Did cardio and diet no lifting.. Didnt go to work tonite.. Laid around all day  :Smilie:  tomorrow: am fasted cardio ,chest and biceps..

Total Daily Macros:2209/308/101/58

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## Back In Black

Bit of extra fat yesterday!?

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## --->>405<<---

LOL stem u dont miss a whole lot do u man  :Smilie:  yeh i fixd my own breakfast yesterday and i forgot to thaw my shrimp b4 i startd the eggs so i saw a half a burger in the fridge and thought.."this mite be good for a change" and broke it apart and had scrambled eggs with burger mixd in and while i was separating the whites from the yolk accidentally droppd an extra yolk in with the whites and thought that mite be good as well so i had 2 whole eggs and 4 whites with burger instead of 1 whole egg and 5 whites with shrimp hence the xtra 80 cals and 3 g fat  :Smilie: 

woke up at 0530 and got in 45mins fasted cardio and then 2nd injection of test cyp.. splitting my dose again so instead of 300mg every 2 weeks like the genius endocrinologist prescribed me im doing 75mg 2x/week... 

lunch is chest and bis.. im ready too .. prob gonna go lighter and high reps.. shoulder is feeln better..

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## SlimmerMe

Keep pluggin' along.....

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## Papiriqui

> LOL stem u dont miss a whole lot do u man  yeh i fixd my own breakfast yesterday and i forgot to thaw my shrimp b4 i startd the eggs so i saw a half a burger in the fridge and thought.."this mite be good for a change" and broke it apart and had scrambled eggs with burger mixd in and while i was separating the whites from the yolk accidentally droppd an extra yolk in with the whites and thought that mite be good as well so i had 2 whole eggs and 4 whites with burger instead of 1 whole egg and 5 whites with shrimp hence the xtra 80 cals and 3 g fat 
> 
> woke up at 0530 and got in 45mins fasted cardio and then 2nd injection of test cyp.. splitting my dose again so instead of 300mg every 2 weeks like the genius endocrinologist prescribed me im doing 75mg 2x/week...
> 
> lunch is chest and bis.. im ready too .. prob gonna go lighter and high reps.. shoulder is feeln better..


Did you say you separate the yolk from the whites?? Have you looked into liquid egg whites?? Might be a little pricier compared to eggs in bulk but definitely beats the hassle IMHO. Just in case i am using 100% EGG WHITES is the name.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well another day drawing to an end ... Chest and bis went well today.. Tomorrow is legs.. Hopefully i get home early enuff to get up and do cardio.. Havento be at wk tomorrow at 0700 so that means i havemto get out of bed by 0430 to get cardio in.. Those days r not so fun :Smilie:  im beginning to like some things i see in the mirror.. Especially after a good chest workout.. 

Total Daily Macros : 2129/305/101/55

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## Papiriqui

Im glad chest went good bud, no shoulder pains i guess!? Keep up the good work!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Did you say you separate the yolk from the whites?? Have you looked into liquid egg whites?? Might be a little pricier compared to eggs in bulk but definitely beats the hassle IMHO. Just in case i am using 100% EGG WHITES is the name.


yeh i lookd into it but my wife says theyre more expensive so she fixes the eggs so whatever makes her happy  :Smilie:  if i had to keep separating them everyday id prob get the whites thing..

chest went fairly well yesterday with not much pain.. a little clicking of the shoulder.. not sure what that is.. it usually stops clicking once it gets good and warmed up...

this am i did nothing.. didnt get to bed until 2330 and there was no way in hell i was getting up at 0430 and doing cardio today! legs at lunch..

----------


## Papiriqui

Yeah i wouldnt do anything either if i went to bed that late  :Smilie:  I havent been able to do cardio for the past 2 days due to work being hectic and ive been leaving late. Dont feel bad, it happens lol

Just keep up the great work on the diet and you will still get the results!!

I am ordering today 2 gallons of egg whites, i'll get you a price an how many egg whites it has, perhaps is not that bad. I really havent compared price against regular eggs.

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## --->>405<<---

cool thx man

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## tbody66

I haven't had a chance to read through it all, but what I've seen looks really good. I'm on board with following along and giving you support and whatever else I can add.

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## Papiriqui

> cool thx man


Not a problem buddy, here to help in whatever way i can.

2 gallons of egg whites has about 300 egg whites and the price is $68.00 w/ free shipping!

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## --->>405<<---

TBody thx man i appreciate it! i need all i can get  :Smilie: 

LOL thats hilarious Pap..300 egg whites  :Smilie: thatd cover me for 60 days... i think we get 12 eggs for 1$ so it appears to be about twice as much  :Smilie:  not that it matter to me about the 30$ but i know my wife.. i will mention it to her however  :Smilie: 

im stayn at 195 lbs now on like week 2.. i guess im having a hard time letting go of the scale ... i know since i started the test cyp its gonna prob change the whole dynamic of my diet..?? what do u think?? i suppose it could be possible for my weight to actually climb while the bf% drops which is not something im used to but definitely want.. and i also realize until i get dialed in there could be some water retention and what not as well..

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## Papiriqui

Down here eggs are a bit higher in price but i do it mostly for the convenience of it, all i have to crack is 1 egg to add to the egg whites. They taste the same, i eat my eggs scrambled, you could always add it to protein shake if in a hurry as well so ot has several purposes.

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## Papiriqui

As long as you look thinner when you look in the mirror, the scale doesnt matter IMO, specially because it will drive you nuts!! I was on the scale lately every morning and man i was going totally crazy, i gave it up to once a week, Monday mornings when i wake up.

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## tbody66

a Bigger chest makes the waist look smaller!!!!!!!!!!

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## Back In Black

We are so ingrained that it is all about the weight. I think that is far more true for women than men but it is usually the easiest gauge we have as everybody has a set of weighing scales. 

It will be a little different now with the TRT and now very important you trust the mirror and Mrs 405's ability with the calipers. Feel free to post pics as often as you wish, we'll be as honest as we can be.

Just don't lose faith, trust in what you are doing, your results so far speak femselves.

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## Papiriqui

> we are so ingrained that it is all about the weight. I think that is far more true for women than men but it is usually the easiest gauge we have as everybody has a set of weighing scales.
> 
> It will be a little different now with the trt and now very important you trust the mirror and mrs 405's ability with the calipers. Feel free to post pics as often as you wish, we'll be as honest as we can be.
> 
> Just don't lose faith, trust in what you are doing, your results so far speak femselves.


^^^ x2

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## --->>405<<---

:Smilie:  thx stem and pap..  :Smilie:  u guys really help me alot.. I consider yall friends...what woukd that be over in england stem? Chaps? fellows? Mates? And in cuba pap?? LOL i dont even have a guess for there :Smilie: 

Oh yeh! Stem i put some vinegar in my tuna tonite.. Along with some tabasco.. Man it was good! My wife said it stunk and she wAs gonna puke LOL .. The vinegar i have at the moment is balsamic but it has 2g sugar/TBS.. Wonder if they make it w/o any sugar?? 

Legs went well today.. U wouldnt think a shoulder would come into play on leg day but it does with the bar on shoulders for squats as well as close grip bench ... Think im gonna have to give up the close grip..

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## Papiriqui

> thx stem and pap..  u guys really help me alot.. I consider yall friends...what woukd that be over in england stem? Chaps? fellows? Mates? *And in cuba pap?? LOL i dont even have a guess for there*
> 
> Oh yeh! Stem i put some vinegar in my tuna tonite.. Along with some tabasco.. Man it was good! My wife said it stunk and she wAs gonna puke LOL .. The vinegar i have at the moment is balsamic but it has 2g sugar/TBS.. Wonder if they make it w/o any sugar?? 
> 
> Legs went well today.. U wouldnt think a shoulder would come into play on leg day but it does with the bar on shoulders for squats as well as close grip bench ... Think im gonna have to give up the close grip..


That would be, consorte, amigo, socio, etc lol

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## Sgt. Hartman

Just read through most of your thread 405, nice log and fantastic progress. Keep up the hard work, it shows, and best of luck.

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## tbody66

Just saw the most recent pics I could find. I am curious as to your height and age. I looked through some of the thread but didn't find it.

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## Back In Black

> thx stem and pap..  u guys really help me alot.. I consider yall friends...what woukd that be over in england stem? Chaps? fellows? Mates? And in cuba pap?? LOL i dont even have a guess for there
> 
> Oh yeh! Stem i put some vinegar in my tuna tonite.. Along with some tabasco.. Man it was good! My wife said it stunk and she wAs gonna puke LOL .. The vinegar i have at the moment is balsamic but it has 2g sugar/TBS.. Wonder if they make it w/o any sugar?? 
> 
> Legs went well today.. U wouldnt think a shoulder would come into play on leg day but it does with the bar on shoulders for squats as well as close grip bench ... Think im gonna have to give up the close grip..


Friends I consider people who I would trust secrets, even my life, to. Mates are people you know pretty well but wouldn't necessarily go out for a drink with. Chaps, like that word but it'd be a general greeting to a bunch of guys 'Morning Chaps/gents' but really isn't used very often. Fellows, pmp, that's a little bit Victorian now i think.

Not sure you'd get balsamic in a low/no sugar form. Reckon the Italians of Modena would be very upset you even suggested it. I use plain malt vinegar, no calories to worry about.

Shoulders massively involved in all forms of squatting, next time maybe give them a light warm up.

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## --->>405<<---

LOL thats funny.. About the balsamic vinegar.. Should i drop it? Malt vinegar? Is that different than plain distilled vinegar?? I hope so otherwise i dont think itd be to my liking.. 

As far as shoulders and squats go i think the warmup may be a good route.. Would leg press be a poor substitute for a squat? 

Well i just woke up and now have to do my 45 min cardio.. Also i weighed myself this am and down to 193.2 so the weight is once again dropping  :Smilie:  hopefully fat and not muscle.. I look thinner again today than i did yesterday.. I tell u the less fat i have on me the more of an impact 2 lbs seems to make on my appearance.. Guess that would be the case.. I like it  :Smilie:

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## tbody66

Age and height?

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## Papiriqui

Leg press is not bad, i do them but i don't think i would substitute that for squats, have you tried lunges? Front squats i believe is called where you place the bar in front of you instead of your back, have you tried that?

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## Back In Black

> Age and height?


He's 37 and 5ft 9.

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## Back In Black

> LOL thats funny.. About the balsamic vinegar.. Should i drop it? Malt vinegar? Is that different than plain distilled vinegar?? I hope so otherwise i dont think itd be to my liking.. 
> 
> As far as shoulders and squats go i think the warmup may be a good route.. Would leg press be a poor substitute for a squat? 
> 
> Well i just woke up and now have to do my 45 min cardio.. Also i weighed myself this am and down to 193.2 so the weight is once again dropping  hopefully fat and not muscle.. I look thinner again today than i did yesterday.. I tell u the less fat i have on me the more of an impact 2 lbs seems to make on my appearance.. Guess that would be the case.. I like it


If you can squat effectively I consider the leg press a poor substitute. If you can't sqaut because of your leverage or because of pain (not general squat discomfort) or from not being flexible enough then the leg press is an alternative.

Does your gym have either a cambered bar or hexagonal deadlift bar?

Yeah, those 2lbs now are a much bigger percentage of your bodyweight than they used to be. 7lbs from now will seem a whole lot different to the first 7lbs.

Malt vinegar is brown, normal distilled vinegar is clear I think. The malt is what us Brits put on our fish n chips n mushy peas. Together with a generous sprinkle of salt. Droooooool.

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## SlimmerMe

> I look thinner again today than i did yesterday.. I tell u the less fat i have on me the more of an impact 2 lbs seems to make on my appearance.. Guess that would be the case.. I like it


Sounds good to me! Keep it up 405~

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## Papiriqui

> The malt is what us Brits put on our fish n chips n mushy peas. Together with a generous sprinkle of salt. Droooooool.


Fish and chips  :Wink:  I've never tried it just because of the fact that it might not be authentic enough or good enough, so thats why i havent but i would give anything to try a good fish and chips, yeah im drooling too lol

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## Back In Black

> Fish and chips  I've never tried it just because of the fact that it might not be authentic enough or good enough, so thats why i havent but i would give anything to try a good fish and chips, yeah im drooling too lol


Mate, whenever you come to this side of the pond I'll hook you up with some of the best!

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## --->>405<<---

Fish and chips is fried fish and french fries rite?? I like my fish with good tartar sauce (cajun style tartar) and friesmwith ketchup (a ton  :Smilie: ) ...

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## --->>405<<---

> Age and height?


Hey t-body sry man i missd ur post .. Yeh 37 yrs 5'9" 193(now :Smilie: )lbs down from 213lbs.. I think im in my 10th week... Saturday will conclude week 10..

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## Papiriqui

SteM i will definitely hold you to that  :Smilie: 

405 I love fish with tartar sauce, any kind, as a matter of fact i make a mean tartar sauce (regular) but fish and chips is totally at another level!!

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## Back In Black

> Fish and chips is fried fish and french fries rite?? I like my fish with good tartar sauce (cajun style tartar) and friesmwith ketchup (a ton ) ...


Battered deep fried fish and chips are chips really, french fries are way too thin to be called chips. I know you guys call crisps, chips but really, they ain't chips. Chips should be as thick as your thumbs. Maybe you guys call them steak cut or sumthin'? Serve with mushy peas and/or curry sauce or ketchup. Served with a piping hot mug of hot tea.

Guess what my cheat meal's gonna be this week!!!!!!

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## Papiriqui

> Battered deep fried fish and chips are chips really, french fries are way too thin to be called chips. I know you guys call crisps, chips but really, they ain't chips. Chips should be as thick as your thumbs. Maybe you guys call them steak cut or sumthin'? Serve with mushy peas and/or curry sauce or ketchup. Served with a piping hot mug of hot tea.
> 
> Guess what my cheat meal's gonna be this week!!!!!!


Yeah thanks SteM, rubbing it in!! Yeah we call them steak fries, thicker cut.

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## tbody66

> Hey t-body sry man i missd ur post .. Yeh 37 yrs 5'9" 193(now)lbs down from 213lbs.. I think im in my 10th week... Saturday will conclude week 10..


And what is your ultimate goal? Tell me about how exactly you are performing your squats. I actually tore my pec squatting, but it was because of some extreme non-flexibility issues! I might be able to help fix that, what set/rep range are you doing and with what poundages?

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## --->>405<<---

> And what is your ultimate goal? Tell me about how exactly you are performing your squats. I actually tore my pec squatting, but it was because of some extreme non-flexibility issues! I might be able to help fix that, what set/rep range are you doing and with what poundages?


Beginning this my goal was to get bf below 12%... Obviously id like to get as ripped as possible.. When i startd i didnt know my test was low.. Since starting ive found out i have low test and startd test cyp 150mg/week... 

Im hoping now that im on tbe test that my results will get better.. I wondered why it was so hard to make good gains and lose fat.. I know alot of it was diet(obviously cuz ive had good dieting results w/o the test) but im hoping now that i wont be playn with such a handicap(low test) maybe i can do better than sub12%...

Squat wise im not sure what to say about how i do them.. Basically i walk under bar with hands down by sides and line up my shoulders then put hands on bar(less of strain on shoulder that way) thrn i pick it up and back up keep back strait and squat down where thighs r almost parallel to floor looking forward bend at waist to almost 45degree angle and then go back up to standing position... 

As far as weight goes my 3 working sets im currently doing 225lbs x 12-15 reps 

Before i lightened up i was doing 135 x 15reps, 225 x 10 reps, 275 x 8 reps, 315 x 8 reps

Like i said i lightened it up because the 275 and 315 were too heavy for my shoulder(the weight bearing down on it was painful) 

Sux cuz i can prob go to even 365 or 405 but id rather be able to do 225 than nothing... 

If i coukd do it without having to hole the bar with right hand id be ok but that position strains my shoulder.... Theres a guy i see squatting with smith machine and he doesnt hold the bar (which i coukd do) but it was suggested to me not to use the smith for squats cuz of unnatural movement and potential injury...

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## RaginCajun

been reading thru your thread, great work! i wish i could be lifting right now but i injured my shoulder. you sound like you are becoming a beast! keep it up

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## --->>405<<---

Hey thx cajun.. Good to hear from u man.. Sry bout ur shoulder.. Went thru shoulder deal too.. Stil hurts some.. Get better and get bak in man  :Smilie:  

Total macros : 2154/305/106/55

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## --->>405<<---

> Just read through most of your thread 405, nice log and fantastic progress. Keep up the hard work, it shows, and best of luck.


Thx sgt sorry i overlookd ur post yesterday .. I appreciate it man  :Smilie:

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## tbody66

Tell me about your shoulder issue, is there an injury or past injury and have you been to a chiropractor?

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## --->>405<<---

> Tell me about your shoulder issue, is there an injury or past injury and have you been to a chiropractor?


Did u see post 578? 

As far as shoulder i tore my bicep tendon in 2007 And had surgery on it to try to repair.. Then in april of this yr i had surgery again but this time it was on my collarbone(had arthritis on it and it was rubbing against some other bone)... So it was ground down shorter and the arthritis was ground off .. There were some things floating around in there they sucked out but i was told there was no actual shoulder injury.. The pain was from the arthritis... I actually have a little clicking going on in there now at the top of my rep on an incline DB press..: my left shoukder does a little popping as well.. Lucky me my mom was diagnosed with sEvere arthritis in both her shoulders last week  :Smilie:  yay!

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## Papiriqui

Sorry to hear a out your mom bud! O have a clicking on my left shoulder, doesnt hurt or anythin but is there!

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## --->>405<<---

Yeh thx pap.. Shes doin ok with it .. Just makes me wonder if thats wat i have to look forward to down the road... Shes not active at all but i on the other hand plan lifting and doing cardio for a long time...

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## Papiriqui

Im no expert and i know nothing about arthritis, but i think the more active you are the better it is, i think!

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## tbody66

> Did u see post 578? 
> 
> As far as shoulder i tore my bicep tendon in 2007 And had surgery on it to try to repair.. Then in april of this yr i had surgery again but this time it was on my collarbone(had arthritis on it and it was rubbing against some other bone)... So it was ground down shorter and the arthritis was ground off .. There were some things floating around in there they sucked out but i was told there was no actual shoulder injury.. The pain was from the arthritis... I actually have a little clicking going on in there now at the top of my rep on an incline DB press..: my left shoukder does a little popping as well.. Lucky me my mom was diagnosed with sEvere arthritis in both her shoulders last week  yay!


I did read the post, just didn't see the shoulder issue explained. I've had biceps tendon issues as well, but not a tear. I have also had shoulder issues, which I believed were a torn rotator cuff and finally had properly diagnosed and fixed through chiropractic adjustment. I would recommend warming up with jumping rope, should help loosen up the shoulder, do not give up on the squats. I will try to explain this clearly, though not easy when I can't really show you and help you through it. One minute solid of jumping rope then go to squats, warm up with just the bar, place your feet just outside of shoulder width then turn your toes outward two inches from center, place the bar further down your back and keep your arms just loosely falling over the bar as far out as they can go (picture Christ on the cross) go all the way down with the weight and try not to lean forward at all, look up at the ceiling through the entire range of motion. Drop your butt below your knee on every rep, at the top of the exercise stop 4 - 6 inches short of lock-out then go back to the bottom part of the exercise. Perform 25 reps with the bar, rest 90 seconds, go up to 95lbs and repeat(25 reps, not locking out at top) then go to 135lbs and repeat for three workout sets of 25 reps, on your final set go to failure and let me know how many that is and I'll adjust the weight/rest/rep if you need. This will give you full benefit of the squat without the strain on the shoulder. If you are willing to try this for De***ber I can promise you some growth on the legs and relief to the shoulder.( I have no idea what you have already tried, so you might already know if this will work or not )

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## --->>405<<---

> *I did read the post, just didn't see the shoulder issue explained.* I've had biceps tendon issues as well, but not a tear. I have also had shoulder issues, which I believed were a torn rotator cuff and finally had properly diagnosed and fixed through chiropractic adjustment. I would recommend warming up with jumping rope, should help loosen up the shoulder, do not give up on the squats. I will try to explain this clearly, though not easy when I can't really show you and help you through it. One minute solid of jumping rope then go to squats, warm up with just the bar, place your feet just outside of shoulder width then turn your toes outward two inches from center, place the bar further down your back and keep your arms just loosely falling over the bar as far out as they can go (picture Christ on the cross) go all the way down with the weight and try not to lean forward at all, look up at the ceiling through the entire range of motion. Drop your butt below your knee on every rep, at the top of the exercise stop 4 - 6 inches short of lock-out then go back to the bottom part of the exercise. Perform 25 reps with the bar, rest 90 seconds, go up to 95lbs and repeat(25 reps, not locking out at top) then go to 135lbs and repeat for three workout sets of 25 reps, on your final set go to failure and let me know how many that is and I'll adjust the weight/rest/rep if you need. This will give you full benefit of the squat without the strain on the shoulder. If you are willing to try this for De***ber I can promise you some growth on the legs and relief to the shoulder.( I have no idea what you have already tried, so you might already know if this will work or not )


i didnt point u to that post specifically cuz i mentiond my shoulder there i just didnt know if u saw it cuz i figd itd be up a little bit on the page by the time u got bak here.. mainly was answering ur question about my goals long term..

squat wise ill give what u said a shot.. i remember from younger days being instructed to keep knees behind the toes when going down and thats about all i remember about how to do squats.. just started wkn legs about 2 months ago.. am curious to see how many i can do on set 4 which i understand to be with 135 lbs? it will prob be a bit awkward for a little while looking at the ceiling.. i did notice if i went wider with my grip it was less strain on the shoulder but its hard to go that wide and feel confident about the weight not falling with 300lbs up there  :Smilie: 

am curious about the chiropractor thing.. i went to one one time very skeptically cuz of the typical chiropractor stereotype for my hip that had locked into position and he xrayd it and poppd it and the next day it was healed completely and never had a prob since.. i was convinced of their legitimacy from then on just never really had a reason to go bak..

appreciate the assistance  :Smilie:

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## --->>405<<---

Well back wkout went well i cant remember if i put that in earlier or not  :Smilie:  tomorrow 0430 fasted cardio .. Shoukders at lunch.. My knee has been giving me trubble today.. Hopebthat goes away... Man im falling apart! LOL 

Had a ortho surgeon tell me i needed surgery on it in 2006.. I never got it dun... Been able to run on it fairly well.. Maybe its just the cold weather/.. 3rd shot test dun.. Got tat goin for me  :Smilie:  will be interested to see bf reading this week.. 

Does anyone else "feel fat" even though their bf cheks r showing theyre losing fat?? I guess im just havn one of those days.. Im ready to just be maintaining now! :Smilie:  its not coming off fast enuff..!i guess im paranoid of hitting a plateau.. I think i still have a good 15lbs fat to lose... Weighd 195.something again today after 193.2 yesterday...

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## tbody66

I feel fat all the time, mostly because I am ( but you can check my thread if you don't believe me, I posted pics today ). I am excited about seeing what burn and growth you can get from proper squats, I will do my very best to help any way I can.

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## --->>405<<---

hey tbody thx dude  :Smilie:  yeh i put a tape on my waist this am cuz i was prompted to after seeing u do it on urs and it was 37".. ugh.. i would bet it was prob 42" when i started.. should have taken a measurement then.. i didnt do the navel i put it in the biggest place i could find..lower abs and love handles r a stubborn place for me..as well as my chest.. LOL i hate it.. nothing worse than love handles and man titties...

did 45 mins am fasted cardio today at 0430.. 

SteM i need to ramp it up man.. feeln a little stuck.. maybe im just being emotional.. did i just say that?

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## Papiriqui

Good job 405, im about to leave the house to get a good fasted 1 hr session!

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## tbody66

405, you need to undersrtand that when you are making changes in your diet and exercise program it causes hormonal (we men prefer the word chemical) production in the body, this has an affect on our emotions.As long as you recognize that some of what your feeling is a bi-product of your choices to maintain better health than you can keep them in their proper place and not allow them to control your actions, basically you just need to plow ahead whether you feel like it or not. And it's fine to share here about what you are going through, all of us have been there, whether we admit it or not.

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## Times Roman

> Hey t-body sry man i missd ur post .. Yeh 37 yrs 5'9" *193*(now)lbs down from 213lbs.. I think im in my 10th week... Saturday will conclude week 10..


Whew! That's a relief. I thought 405 was your weight! =)

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## Papiriqui

^^ lol

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## SlimmerMe

Gotta keep plugging away. Remember slow wins this race and consistency too. 
You have been doing great and I am so proud of you and you need to recognize how far along you have come. 

YOU GOT THIS 405. If it were easy everybody would do it. And wait for a couple of weeks before you think you are at a plateau. That is what I have been told when I thought I was and then all of the sudden? WOW! Magic happens.

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## --->>405<<---

Papiriqui
Good job 405, im about to leave the house to get a good fasted 1 hr session!

*get it in man! looks like someone slept in* 

tbody66
405, you need to undersrtand that when you are making changes in your diet and exercise program it causes hormonal (we men prefer the word chemical) production in the body, this has an affect on our emotions.As long as you recognize that some of what your feeling is a bi-product of your choices to maintain better health than you can keep them in their proper place and not allow them to control your actions, basically you just need to plow ahead whether you feel like it or not. And it's fine to share here about what you are going through, all of us have been there, whether we admit it or not.

*tbody thx for reply.. yeh im plowing ahead thats for sure also i just started TRT which may affect hormones im about as lean as ive ever been and usually for me something happens (like an injury) or i just stay rite where im at.. so i guess im getn a little paranoid.. never had abs and really want them bad!!!!!!!!!!*

Times Roman
Originally Posted by --->>405<<--- 
Hey t-body sry man i missd ur post .. Yeh 37 yrs 5'9" 193(now)lbs down from 213lbs.. I think im in my 10th week... Saturday will conclude week 10..
Whew! That's a relief. I thought 405 was your weight! =)

*now that funny LOL.. no TR 405 is my goal on the bench.. currently my 1rep max is 315*

SlimmerMe
Gotta keep plugging away. Remember slow wins this race and consistency too. 
You have been doing great and I am so proud of you and you need to recognize how far along you have come. 

YOU GOT THIS 405. If it were easy everybody would do it. And wait for a couple of weeks before you think you are at a plateau. That is what I have been told when I thought I was and then all of the sudden? WOW! Magic happens.

*thx slim appreciate ur encouragement and also that from everyone on here ready for some magic!*

----------


## Back In Black

> 405, you need to undersrtand that when you are making changes in your diet and exercise program it causes hormonal (we men prefer the word chemical) production in the body, this has an affect on our emotions.As long as you recognize that some of what your feeling is a bi-product of your choices to maintain better health than you can keep them in their proper place and not allow them to control your actions, basically you just need to plow ahead whether you feel like it or not. And it's fine to share here about what you are going through, all of us have been there, whether we admit it or not.


Agree with this. Plus your TRT has just started so plenty of changes going on with you. And even at about 12% I get 'fat' days. Just keep going through it and you'll be out the other side before you know it.

On the days you can do extra time on your fasted cardio do it, even if it's 5 or 5 minutes here and there. When do we get pics again?

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## Papiriqui

Yeah saturdays and sundays are my days to sleep in a little, every day waking up at 4AM takes a small toll when it comes to sleep.

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## --->>405<<---

Yeh stem pics 2 weeks from tomorrow...Im thinking of doing just that with cardio.. Gonna try for 60mins on days when i dont have to be at wk til 0800... Thats funny btw.. Fat days at 12%  :Wink: 

Pap i know wat u mean bout sleep.. Although if ur getn up at 0400 then u got me beat.. I usually get up at either 0430 or 0530 but i dont get to bed alot til 2300-2330...

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## Papiriqui

Well no you got be beat by 100 miles, i get to bed at 200-2100 the latest!!

I think being at 4% bf you will still have fat days, that is something psychological we all go through, i think is normal to feel skinny and fat at times regardless of how skinny or fat you are, same thing with being weak and strong.

When you feel fat either post here or take a look at the pictures you posted, it will make you feel better since you are definitely making progress, we can all see that.

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## tbody66

I'm liking this thread, and definitely liking the quality of the responses and the people posting them.

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## --->>405<<---

Me 2 tbody  :Smilie:  theres some cool people on here and smart too ... Well days dun pretty much.. Had to eat 93/7 burger today.. Was good  :Smilie:  havent been doing fitday lately since i eat the same thing everyday(except the dAy i make that statement lol) everyth else was same xcept i forgot protein powder so i had burger instead and then had burger again with reg meal .. It has twice the fat so i got18g fat more today than usuAl... Or something like that... Dont like running out of stuff but wife was si k and 93/7 is all i could find...

Total daily macros :Frown: roughly)2294/325/93/65

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## --->>405<<---

Ps.. I just realizeD i couLd skip the pb and it would even out so actual daily macros now:2104/318/93/48

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## Papiriqui

93/7 is what i can find here, thats what i've been using so far! Just in case you need it 4oz, 170 cal, 0c, 23p, 8f

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## --->>405<<---

well no 0430 cardio again today..why u ask?? cuz i just didnt feel like it!  :Smilie:

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## tbody66

Do you gentlemen have access to buffalo or bison meat?

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## Papiriqui

> well no 0430 cardio again today..why u ask?? cuz i just didnt feel like it!


Hahaha i like that !!

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## --->>405<<---

also i weighed myself this am again cuz its official weigh in day and i weighed 195.something again.. so i lookd bak thru my log and see that ive been at 195 since november 20th.. now then my bf was 16.something% and last week it was 14.22%(i realize its prob off a bit but shows im dropping fat) very curious to see what it comes bak at today..

i tell u im getn tired of seeing 195 on the scale when i get on it.. although not so much if bf continues to drop.. i do find it unusual however that it was dropping steady every week for 2 months and then all of a sudden bam! it stops.. fat continues to go down but unsure of this week yet.. will know tonite when i get it chekd.. will it matter that i do it tonite after eating all day vs this am on an empty stomach??? u know how u always feel skinnier rite when u wake up  :Smilie: 

intellectually i know my trt prob has something to do with it and my fat has been dropping ... but i didnt get up in time this am to get it dun so i wont be happy til i know for sure...

----------


## Papiriqui

> also i weighed myself this am again cuz its official weigh in day and i weighed 195.something again.. so i lookd bak thru my log and see that ive been at 195 since november 20th.. now then my bf was 16.something% and last week it was 14.22%(i realize its prob off a bit but shows im dropping fat) very curious to see what it comes bak at today..
> 
> i tell u im getn tired of seeing 195 on the scale when i get on it.. although not so much if bf continues to drop.. i do find it unusual however that it was dropping steady every week for 2 months and then all of a sudden bam! it stops.. fat continues to go down but unsure of this week yet.. will know tonite when i get it chekd.. will it matter that i do it tonite after eating all day vs this am on an empty stomach??? u know how u always feel skinnier rite when u wake up 
> 
> intellectually i know my trt prob has something to do with it and my fat has been dropping ... but i didnt get up in time this am to get it dun so i wont be happy til i know for sure...


I think you should weight yourself when you wake up after you go to the restroom, why? Because that weight will be as close to your real body weight as possible i think since all the food has been disgested.

Weight wise i think you shouldnt worry!! The test will make you gain some LBM which will weight more than fat since is more dense, i know how you feel since i was there myself, and it is hard to trust yourself when you are doing the same thing and you dont see a change in the scale, but quoting my man SteM trust your efforts, results and diet so far, you'll get there buddy!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

:Smilie:  thx pap.. yeh i did weigh myself this am.. i was talkn bout chekn bf% with calipers this evening even though i normally do it in the am

i doubt it matters i just always feel skinnier in the am.. but i doubt i gain fat thru the day then lose it while i sleep LOL if so maybe i should just become rip van winkle..the ultimate lazy mans diet!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Do you gentlemen have access to buffalo or bison meat?


yeh tbody i think ive seen it in the grocery store but its ground like hamburger

----------


## SlimmerMe

Keep holding tight. I can tell you this: patience is needed when you feel like you do now. I understand. But I promise the magic is around the corner....

----------


## --->>405<<---

:Smilie:  thx slim.. and i know this.. but it doesnt mean i have to like it.. like i said as long as i show a fatloss in % tonite ill be GTG.. just have to wait and see..

----------


## SlimmerMe

Compared to where you started is something to remember too. Somehow we seem to take it for granted when we feel like this forgetting what strides have been made wanting to continue the rapid BF loss pace we saw in the beginning stages. So try to keep this in mind no matter what % shows tonight ..my .02

----------


## Back In Black

> thx slim.. and i know this.. but it doesnt mean i have to like it.. like i said as long as i show a fatloss in % tonite ill be GTG.. just have to wait and see..


The caliper test can be slightly off depending when you do it. Idelly the same time of day each week and it'll be ok. Different time won't be that much different. If you were 195 at 16% and end up 195 at 10-12% you will be a VERY happy boy!

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh i hear u stem ur rite man :Smilie:  10% preferably...i dont think the 14.22 i got last week is accurate..theres still too much fat on me for that.. we'll see tonite..

slim ur rite as well.. ive def made good improvement over the last 2 months.. i have worked alot for it too  :Smilie:  i think mainly i just wanna know if the fat is indeed still coming off and if not what i have to do in order to change that.. like i said based on bf readings it is.. but i think because what the bf reading says i am (14.22%ish) and the fat i still see on me when i look in the mirror dont line up makes me question its accuracy (not of the caliper test in general more of my wifes ability to do it correctly).. 

im prob thinkn bout it too much  :Smilie:

----------


## tbody66

> The caliper test can be slightly off depending when you do it. Idelly the same time of day each week and it'll be ok. Different time won't be that much different. If you were 195 at 16% and end up 195 at 10-12% you will be a VERY happy boy!


This^^^

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well finally got bf chekd..  :Smilie:  

Last week 14.22%
this week 13.78% = -0.44%

Still 195.something and lbm went from last week at 75.8kg to 76.26kg

I tell u this week im pleasantly and definitely surprised  :Smilie:  what can i complain about?

----------


## tbody66

nothing, my friend, nothing

----------


## --->>405<<---

well its a beautiful morning  :Smilie: 

woke up at 0430 and got in my 45 mins fasted cardio.. was tuff to get out of bed but i tell u nothing beats the feeling of stepping off that elliptical at 0530 knowing i just finished my 45 min fat burning session for the day and i dont have to worry bout it til tomorrow :Smilie: 

also good peace of mind that i actually droppd fat again this week for the 10th week in a row!weighd 194.2 this am and im ok with it.. like u said stem if i can get sub 12% or better and be 195 ill be one happy camper...

----------


## Papiriqui

Good work buddy!

----------


## tbody66

> well its a beautiful morning 
> 
> woke up at 0430 and got in my 45 mins fasted cardio.. was tuff to get out of bed but i tell u nothing beats the feeling of stepping off that elliptical at 0530 knowing i just finished my 45 min fat burning session for the day and i dont have to worry bout it til tomorrow
> 
> also good peace of mind that i actually droppd fat again this week for the 10th week in a row!weighd 194.2 this am and im ok with it.. like u said stem if i can get sub 12% or better and be 195 ill be one happy camper...


You can and you will and you will be happy, camping or not!



> Good work buddy!


This^^^^

----------


## SlimmerMe

Fabulous 405...

----------


## --->>405<<---

well bout to get in the good old chest and bis session  :Smilie:  my favorite...

----------


## --->>405<<---

chest and bis went well.. shouloder is feeln alot bettr.. i think takn it lite is helping.. tomorrow tbody ill be tryin ur squat deal  :Smilie:

----------


## RaginCajun

glad to hear your shoulder is getting better, keep it up 405!

----------


## tbody66

> chest and bis went well.. shouloder is feeln alot bettr.. i think takn it lite is helping.. tomorrow tbody ill be tryin ur squat deal


Can't wait. I hope you hate me afterwards!

----------


## Papiriqui

> glad to hear your shoulder is getting better, keep it up 405!


^^ x2

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well im off work today.. So i slept in.. Til noon!! Man that was nice :Smilie:  got up and did my 45 mins fasted cardio.. Was gonna do legs today but i suppose thatll have to wait til tomorrow... Will be interested to see how the squat thing goes tbody..

----------


## Papiriqui

> Well im off work today.. So i slept in.. Til noon!! Man that was nice got up and did my 45 mins fasted cardio.. Was gonna do legs today but i suppose thatll have to wait til tomorrow... Will be interested to see how the squat thing goes tbody..


Niice, i need a sleep in lol, yesterday went to bed late and i definitely felt it today!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Took a night job.. Long story -short.. Im at the gym.. Leg day.. T-body:stay tuned  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

VerYtuff tbody.. Whoo!! 

Bar x 25
95 x 25
135 x 25
135 x 17(couldnt take any more pain  :Smilie: )

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ps:i have a pulld muscle in rite glute.. Really makes itself known about rep 15

----------


## tbody66

I didn't hear anything about your shoulder

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL .. Now thatz funny... Ur rite .. Very slight... Legs on the other hand were screaming.. As a matter of fact i could barely make it thru romanian deads and i usually do split squats.. I didnt today.. All i did were those squats and 4sets rom dEads and triceps... My legs had feelings i havent felt before... Shaky for awhile... Very good suggestion... Thx man :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well long day come to an end... Prob sleep til noon again  :Smilie:  glad i went ahead and did legs b4 work cuz theres no way id wanna do it today.. Talk to yall later..

----------


## Papiriqui

Have a good day buddy!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well good umm... Afternoon again :Smilie:  well i woke up so hungry i had to go downstairs and cook my breakfast... Screw the cardio itll be there tomorrow :Smilie:  finally a 2nd day strait at 193.0 today ..and was teetering in the 192s .. Funny how for 2 or 3 days or even longer ur weight will stay the same then one morning BAM! 2lb drop  :Smilie:  hope yall have a good day!

----------


## tbody66

> LOL .. Now thatz funny... Ur rite .. Very slight... Legs on the other hand were screaming.. As a matter of fact i could barely make it thru romanian deads and i usually do split squats.. I didnt today.. All i did were those squats and 4sets rom dEads and triceps... My legs had feelings i havent felt before... Shaky for awhile... Very good suggestion... Thx man


My pleasure. I am very glad to hear that it went as well as I expected.

----------


## Papiriqui

> My pleasure. I am very glad to hear that it went as well as I expected.


Tbody im going to have to steal your expertise for those workouts man, perhaps i will see an improvement.

----------


## tbody66

> Tbody im going to have to steal your expertise for those workouts man, perhaps i will see an improvement.


Anytime you are ready, it would be my pleasure.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Legs r def sore today as well  :Smilie:  pap try it out man it was brutal... Like i said i did 4 sets squats and was ready to go after LOL ..

----------


## tbody66

I can make the best of them hurt, I promise!

----------


## Papiriqui

Well my workouts leave me really sore, my legs are always shaking, but there is always room for improvement

----------


## tbody66

405, you haven't dropped by my thread, come give me some input and support. http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ing-a-comeback...

----------


## --->>405<<---

My legs get sore but not shake.. Not alot else to report today.. Didnt do anything but lay on the cou h and watch tv and play video games  :Smilie:  my kinda day... Tomorrow 0430 fasted cardio and back/abs at lunch..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well up at 0445 and did 45 min cardio.. Boats gonna be late so now im all dressd up with nowhere to go.. Guess ill do a few hrs on the couch  :Smilie:  im a couch potato that doesnt wanna look like one LOL

----------


## Papiriqui

> Well up at 0445 and did 45 min cardio.. Boats gonna be late so now im all dressd up with nowhere to go.. Guess ill do a few hrs on the couch  im a couch potato that doesnt wanna look like one LOL


Hahaha im with you there buddy! What games do you play?? What console?? PS3 or XBOX?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Yeh pap i have a wii and an xbox ... Rite now im playn the new zelda game skyward sword... Its a good game for sure..

Xbox doesnt see a lotta action since i bought my house in the country where we cannot get internet!!! Can u believe there are actually places in the us where u cant get online?? We couldnt but its true.. Im a call if duty junkie and havent been able to play in 18 months.. Thinking of getting a Petition going for the cable company... 

I have been playn a little GTA4 on xbox cuz i ignored it for awhile and never finishd it.. Like the splinter cell series and waiting for another one to come out.. My all time favorite game is definitely Hitman!

----------


## Back In Black

Just checking in, haven't forgotten you. Been very under the weather with flu so have barely been online and haven't trained or eaten right in a week. Looks like it'll be another 4 days before I get back in the gym.

Good to see you are keeping at it and the results keep coming. Next time you do pics are you gonna do some with poses/abs flexed?

----------


## Papiriqui

> Just checking in, haven't forgotten you. Been very under the weather with flu so have barely been online and haven't trained or eaten right in a week. Looks like it'll be another 4 days before I get back in the gym.
> 
> Good to see you are keeping at it and the results keep coming. Next time you do pics are you gonna do some with poses/abs flexed?


Yeah posing pictures!! Good one SteM. Hope you get better soon Master Yoda!

----------


## Papiriqui

> Yeh pap i have a wii and an xbox ... Rite now im playn the new zelda game skyward sword... Its a good game for sure..
> 
> Xbox doesnt see a lotta action since i bought my house in the country where we cannot get internet!!! Can u believe there are actually places in the us where u cant get online?? We couldnt but its true.. Im a call if duty junkie and havent been able to play in 18 months.. Thinking of getting a Petition going for the cable company...
> 
> I have been playn a little GTA4 on xbox cuz i ignored it for awhile and never finishd it.. Like the splinter cell series and waiting for another one to come out.. My all time favorite game is definitely Hitman!


Yeah im a call of duty man myself, all about shooting games, i have a ps3 which i only use to watch movies now, recently bought an xbox 360 to play with friends but i barely have time there as well..

----------


## tbody66

PS3 and currently all about SKYRIM, elder scrolls 5, logged over 200 hrs since it came out 11/11/11

----------


## Papiriqui

> PS3 and currently all about SKYRIM, elder scrolls 5, logged over 200 hrs since it came out 11/11/11


I just saw the commercial for skyrim today in the gym, looks good, but i am mostly if not all first action games like modern warfare 3

----------


## gbrice75

> PS3 and currently all about SKYRIM, elder scrolls 5, logged over 200 hrs since it came out 11/11/11


Screw Skyrim!! I keep it old school, it's original Everquest or bust for me!!! 

405 - GOTDAMN!!! This thread is growing... you might give me a run for my money... I gotta get busy!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Originally Posted by SteM
Just checking in, haven't forgotten you. Been very under the weather with flu so have barely been online and haven't trained or eaten right in a week. Looks like it'll be another 4 days before I get back in the gym.

Good to see you are keeping at it and the results keep coming. Next time you do pics are you gonna do some with poses/abs flexed?

*SteM always good to hear from u my man  thx for stoppn by.. hope u get well soon ... as far as the pics go ill see how i look in 2 weeks.. still have belly fat but not nearly as much.. if i get pics my wife is gonna have to take them.. LOL on the idea of me flexing and my wife taking a pic of me LOLOL thats gonna be humbling.. like i said before i think the % lost is accurate but im unsure if im actually 13.8%.. we'll see.. i will do those eventually.. ill prob get her to take some and see how they turn out 
*
Papiriqui
Yeah im a call of duty man myself, all about shooting games, i have a ps3 which i only use to watch movies now, recently bought an xbox 360 to play with friends but i barely have time there as well.. 

*pap too bad i cant get online rite now we could meet and play...*


tbody66
PS3 and currently all about SKYRIM, elder scrolls 5, logged over 200 hrs since it came out 11/11/11

*yeh tbody i had a ps3 and it "mysteriously disappeared" when i had a relative staying with me.. SKYRIM?? whats that?*


gbrice75
Screw Skyrim!! I keep it old school, it's original Everquest or bust for me!!! 

405 - GOTDAMN!!! This thread is growing... you might give me a run for my money... I gotta get busy!


*GB thx for stopping by  i tell u i dont plan on discontinuing this thread anytime soon*

----------


## --->>405<<---

also what would u guys recommend i get at a mexican restaurant for dinner tonite to keep close inline with diet???

----------


## gbrice75

> also what would u guys recommend i get at a mexican restaurant for dinner tonite to keep close inline with diet???


Try and keep it low fat... I mean, Mexican food isn't a great choice no matter what, but hey, you gotta live a little. 

I'd say soft shell tortillas, flour or corn are fine, just not the crispy fried ones! Bean burritos, anything with grilled chicken in it... if you want the food 'wet', try and opt for salsa or something along those lines instead of sour cream, etc.

----------


## --->>405<<---

i was thinking shrimp fajitas?? -minus the tortillas.. and then maybe the beans?? and the lettuce,tomato, and some guacomole??? the only thing is i dont know what they grill the fajita stuff on.. butter or oil?? was gonna try and stay away from carbs as much as possible.. also this weekend i was planning a cheat meal so i didnt want this to take the place of that.. i dont have to go tonite itd just be nice to under the circumstances..but like i said if this meal cant be done without it being a cheat ill prob not go cuz this weekend im having chicken wings and pizza for sure...

----------


## gbrice75

^^ sounds good, the whole shrimp thing. If you don't mind giving up the tortillas, great!! 

Don't worry about the butter/oil thing, you can't control everything when you dine out. If you're staying away from the carbs, then the beans wouldn't be a good choice, but I wouldn't sweat it tbh.

----------


## Papiriqui

Maybe a burrito bowl or something of that nature where it would be kind of a salad but as GB said, dont sweat it, a little cheat meal every obce in a while works wonders!! Enjoy! 

Regarding the games i was asking for the same thing, perhaps we could have played together, maybe when that petition comes around lol

----------


## bass

> i was thinking shrimp fajitas?? -minus the tortillas.. and then maybe the beans?? and the lettuce,tomato, and some guacomole??? the only thing is i dont know what they grill the fajita stuff on.. butter or oil?? was gonna try and stay away from carbs as much as possible.. also this weekend i was planning a cheat meal so i didnt want this to take the place of that.. i dont have to go tonite itd just be nice to under the circumstances..but like i said if this meal cant be done without it being a cheat ill prob not go cuz this weekend im having chicken wings and pizza for sure...


damn bro! amazing progress in such a short time. i wish i knew about this thread i would have followed it from the start, but will read through it anyway. congratulations.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> *Maybe a burrito bowl or something of that nature where it would be kind of a salad* but as GB said, dont sweat it, a little cheat meal every obce in a while works wonders!! Enjoy! 
> 
> Regarding the games i was asking for the same thing, perhaps we could have played together, maybe when that petition comes around lol


yeh i thought about that too.. maybe a shrimp taco salad...with out eatn the tortilla(my fav part  :Smilie: )

----------


## --->>405<<---

> damn bro! amazing progress in such a short time. i wish i knew about this thread i would have followed it from the start, but will read through it anyway. congratulations.


bass thx man .. been working hard  :Smilie:  hoping to see some good results now that im on the test cyp  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well mexican was really good... Now i just feel guilty cuz i ate 2 corn tortillas and about 6 chips and the beans... Although it has been 14 days since my last carb refeed.. Could this count as that?? Then i can not feel as bad?  :Smilie:  this guilt thing sux!!

----------


## tbody66

I always do the shrimp fajita's and don't use any tortilla, a ceviche' is also a great start or even shrimp cocktail. They make it with fresh avocado here so should be high protein, low fat(except the avocado) and good carbs from fresh veggies.

----------


## Papiriqui

405 dont punish yourself!! Look at the scale today and you wont see a difference! A few tortillas are not bad here an there, Bad if you do it everyday but once in a blue moon!!? Come on buddy, is alright!! Cut yourself a break  :Smilie:  glad you enjoyed it

----------


## --->>405<<---

:Smilie:  thx pap.. U were rite.. Woke up and weighed 194.0 ... So wt isnt really up.. Well i have to do my 45 mins cardio now and then go to work.. Hope yall r havn a good day...

----------


## --->>405<<---

Cardio dun.. Now breakfast and work.. Had an easy session... 760 cals burnd in 45 min

----------


## Papiriqui

Not bad!! Keep it up, pictures coming soon!!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well had a goood back and abs workout today.. have been thinking of maybe adding the abs routine 2 more days/week so theyll get hit 3 days instead of one.. curious as to what others do?? SteM?? how bout u??

----------


## Back In Black

I despise training abs. So I train them like every other muscle, hard and heavy once a week. Why do you want to train them more often? Feel you have a weakness? Postural issues ie tight lower back, lower back discomfort? Or just think it will make them stand out more when your b/f is low enough?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I despise training abs. So I train them like every other muscle, hard and heavy once a week. Why do you want to train them more often? Feel you have a weakness? Postural issues ie tight lower back, lower back discomfort? Or just think it will *make them stand out more when your b/f is low enough?*


^^^this  :Smilie: 

also i didnt get to bed last nite til 0200 and had to get up at 0530..so..no cardio..will be lifting today at 1200 though.. i tell u im really not that tired as i thought id have been.. thinking this test cyp may be startn to kick in a little.. i actuallly feel better today than ive felt somedays lately with 7 or 8 hrs sleep!

also im leavn work at 1200 and going home :Smilie:  tonite...chicken wings on the grill and pizza!!!!!!! YES!!!(i dont know if ill let myself actually eat pizza but its nice to fantasize :Smilie: )

----------


## tbody66

I don't do abs at all. Heavy core lifting seems to strengthen them fine. Not saying that is for everyone, just being honest about what I do.

----------


## Papiriqui

At the moment i dont so abs at all, anyways you cant see them lol. When i look like my man SteM or Gbrice than i'll start doing abs, untill then what is abs?? Lol

----------


## Back In Black

> I don't do abs at all. Heavy core lifting seems to strengthen them fine. Not saying that is for everyone, just being honest about what I do.


I haven't got an issue with this. TBH I really only train my abs if my bf is under 15%. Even then once a week with heavy weight and low reps seems to work best for making them stand out.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well shoulders went great even with less than 3hrs sleep.. I did a little flexing in the mirror after i was dun and man! Saw some stuff ive never seen on my before :Smilie:  veins popping in shoulders and on my arms.. Traps buldging a bit! It was awesome! Pumpd me up for real...!!! I still have some fat on me i need to lose but i think im coming along decently considering today completes week 11... Still 195.0... Gonna get the wife to do bf% when she gets home cuz tonite im havn chk wings, fries(SteM ur "chips" :Smilie: ) in the oven of course, and i got some bbq fritos(my fav chip) to snack on .. Rounding it off with small piece of carrot cake and choc chip cookie dough icecream.. LOL excessive?? Maybe but dammit i want a good cheat meal and im havn one..!! Then bak to tuna and broccoli til christmas then bak ondiet again to really try and get ready for spring/summer.. I may even go to the tanning bed this year.. I think the cyp is startn to make me feel better!! :Smilie:

----------


## Papiriqui

Good one bud!! Enjoy tonight ;-)

----------


## tbody66

405, I love you, but you have too many cheat meals!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx pap.. Def will :Smilie:  wings r on the grill now...

Did bf% a day early:
Last week:193lb at 13.8%bf = 75.46LBM
this week:193lb at 13.2%bf = 75.98LBM

FATLOSS = 0.6%

And hes happy again :Smilie: 
I tell u the lower i get the more doubtful i become that itll drop again from week to week  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 405, I love you, but you have too many cheat meals!


LOL tbody but ur coming in way late.. I did have one thurs nite and im havn one tonite too.. That will be for a total of 4 cheat meals in 77days..

Ive eaten 460 meals in 77days.. I think 4 is acceptable..  :Smilie:  u werent around for the 9 or 10 weeks where i only had 1!!!

----------


## tbody66

You are right, my bad! Please forgive me.... you have something on your chin, I think that's bbq sauce or ranch dressing.

----------


## --->>405<<---

:Smilie:  nothing to forgive buddy.. And its jalapeno cheddAr wing sauce.. Soon to be cream cheese icing!!

----------


## Papiriqui

> You are right, my bad! Please forgive me.... you have something on your chin, I think that's bbq sauce or ranch dressing.


^^ lmfao

----------


## Papiriqui

> nothing to forgive buddy.. And its jalapeno cheddAr wing sauce.. Soon to be cream cheese icing!!


^^^ lmfao

----------


## Back In Black

> Thx pap.. Def will wings r on the grill now...
> 
> Did bf% a day early:
> Last week:193lb at 13.8%bf = 75.46LBM
> this week:193lb at 13.2%bf = 75.98LBM
> 
> FATLOSS = 0.6%
> 
> And hes happy again
> *I tell u the lower i get the more doubtful i become that itll drop again from week to week*


And yet it still it does!!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

ur rite Stem  :Smilie:  i think maybe tuesday ill take a trip to the bod pod and see what it says.. so did i understand correctly that i should subtract 4% from whatever it says i am to get my subcutaneous bf%??? im guessing somewhere in the 16% area 

today is an off day... 

btw i woke up this am and weighed in at 193.2 lbs  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Yeah, about 4% give or take.

Enjoy your off day mate, rest and recover!

----------


## Papiriqui

Good job body, keep that fat dropping!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

I tell u im ready to get on the elliptical!! Off days r good but after last nite i feel i need to get it going  :Smilie:  think im holding some water... Tomorrow at 0430 cardio ...

----------


## --->>405<<---

well im back in the saddle again  :Smilie: ! 0430 came quikly today and it wasnt easy to get up but i did.. lunch time is chest abd bis once again.. i think if i can drop about 10 more lbs of fat ill really start to see something good :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Good chest and bi wkout today.. Not much else to say.. Not alot of aCtivity on here for a monday  :Smilie:

----------


## tbody66

When are pics?

----------


## --->>405<<---

This coming weekend .. Sunday...

----------


## Papiriqui

405 i have a question for you since my bodpod appt is getting closer, did you eat anythin before going?? Or you went on empty stomach?? I've done some research and they do not recommend to eat a few hrs before to get a better reading, the place i went asked me to eat so i want to make sure whether they know what they are doing or not, i want to get the most accurate reading as possible.

----------


## --->>405<<---

U know pap im not sure .. They didnt tell me one way or the other where i went.. I never even thought about it.. But i did eat my reg sched meals that day .. I wouldnt think itd matter  :Smilie:  but i cant tell u for sure..

----------


## Back In Black

As far as I understand it, it is best not to eat OR drink for a couple hours prior to the test. But I would suggest you eat or drink the same amount and at the same time when you did it last time, for accurate tracking of your bodyfat.

----------


## Papiriqui

> As far as I understand it, it is best not to eat OR drink for a couple hours prior to the test. But I would suggest you eat or drink the same amount and at the same time when you did it last time, for accurate tracking of your bodyfat.


True!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx stem yeh nextmtime i go ill just do like i did the first time... Shoulda figd ud know  :Smilie: 

Went to my new doc today.. Like him alot better.. Got in good leg and tri workout after and also have to go to work tonite.. Tuesdays always seem to be busy for me :Smilie:

----------


## tbody66

Good leg workout, do tell!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Good leg workout, do tell!!!


Well tbody as u know ive changd up my squats.. Last week i did:
25 x bar
25 x 95
25 x 135
17 x 135 after couldnt do splits squats and rest of wkout was brutal

This week :
25 x bar
25 x 95
25 x 135
20 x 135 and did both sets of split squats as well as romanian deads and tris without feeling like i was gonna pass out  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

> Well tbody as u know ive changd up my squats.. Last week i did:
> 25 x bar
> 25 x 95
> 25 x 135
> 17 x 135 after couldnt do splits squats and rest of wkout was brutal
> 
> This week :
> 25 x bar
> 25 x 95
> ...


I think that means it was too easy!

----------


## Back In Black

> Well tbody as u know ive changd up my squats.. Last week i did:
> 25 x bar
> 25 x 95
> 25 x 135
> 17 x 135 after couldnt do splits squats and rest of wkout was brutal
> 
> This week :
> 25 x bar
> 25 x 95
> ...


I think that means it was too easy!

----------


## tbody66

Yeah, seriously, Slacker! If you aren't cryin' or pukin' you ain't doin' it right!

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL.. Well see i also not only improvd ability to complete the wkout i also learnd something  :Smilie:  even better!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well Seeing as how i didnt get off til 0400 last nite i decided to take the day off.. Still feel like im getting leaner each day  :Smilie:  yestrday i had appt with new TRT doc and during that time had bf% chekd by his young female asst who told me i was pretty lean  :Smilie:  that was nice to hear esp since it was after she finishd the 7 site caliper test  :Smilie:  the doc also told me i did not look like his typical TRT patient.. That most of them were overweight and lookd like they had a hard time getn off the couch  :Smilie:

----------


## tbody66

Did you get her digits and a second date???

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL .. Im a married man and a Christian .. Life can be full of challenges  :Wink:

----------


## tbody66

> LOL .. Im a married man and a Christian .. Life can be full of challenges


Glad to hear! The good news is that in a recent study the females who are most satisfied sexually, based upon frequency of orgasms as a percentage of sexual activity with a partner, are married christian women!

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh ive heard that as well.. it would make sense wouldnt it tbody?? that is to u and me at least .. 

well i couldnt drag my lazy butt out of bed to do cardio this am... oh well i guess itll have to be a 5 day fasted cardio week for me.. 

stem if i do my cardio tonite(it wont be pwo) will it be a waste of time since im not fasted and its not pwo??

back and abs at lunch..

----------


## RaginCajun

Cardio is cardio, just get it done. Do more of a HIIT type cardio to really get that heart rate up

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh ive been doing so much fasted i suppose ive begun to look at anything other than fasted or pwo hiit as a waste of time  :Smilie:

----------


## RaginCajun

Try something different for cardio, maybe some sprints. What was your BF after getting it done?

----------


## Back In Black

> Cardio is cardio, just get it done. Do more of a HIIT type cardio to really get that heart rate up


^^This.

Cardio is rarely a waste of time but it's all about being smart with it. Are you feeling like a machine now then?

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh pretty much like a machine  :Smilie:  

im stuck on the elliptical cuz the old knee is flaring up.. had some fluid built up on it now i can tell cuz its a little tight... be no running for me.. am curious if its cuz of the deep squats ive been doing or possibly estrogen related since im on test or maybe neither and just coincidence.. will be doing 45 mins elliptical tonite then..

----------


## tbody66

I'm voting for it just happens. And the older we get the more things "just happen"

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh i had an orthopaedic surgeon wanna cut on it in 2005..said i wouldnt be able to walk on it for 3 months so i never got it dun.. since then ive been able to run distance and sprints but in the last few days have fluid build up again.. may have to go to doc.. stem this is the stuff im talkn bout that keeps me from reaching my goals.. just startn to get to where im liking how i look and see what happens! pisses me off..

----------


## Back In Black

Then this is where we need to start training smart. Don't despair we'll get you there. As t suggests, injuries are inevitable. It's how we deal with them.

You could get down to 10% without cardio. Would take alot longer but you could do it.

What was the Quack's prognosis?

----------


## --->>405<<---

said like the knee itself is similar to 2 fists (my analogy for arguments sake) facing each other.. well the top ball has a "ding" in it on the outside like if u hit a piece of wood with a hammer.. and there are little fragments that broke off and r floating around in there.. he wanted to drill a plug out of my knee bigger than the ding and replace it with a cadaver bone.. this is after making an incision vertically from above the knee to below the knee..said id be able to put 0 weight on it for 3 months...needless to say back then i was also cutting and about where i am now and opted not .. he sucked the fluid off and gave me a cortisone shot and i never went back... its been 6 yrs...

----------


## Papiriqui

I miss a day and im hearing no cardio and crap!! What is going on? Just kidding lol. Keep it up bud, waiting for those pictures, lets see what that asst saw lol.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I miss a day and im hearing no cardio and crap!! What is going on? Just kidding lol. Keep it up bud, waiting for those pictures, lets see what that asst saw lol.


yeh i was wondering where u been pap?  :Smilie:  as for the asst i am thinking she was prob referring to me as pretty lean on the standard of what she usually sees in there.. she said she estimated me about 15% wich would be good.. ill get results of that test in the mail soon..

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Then this is where we need to start training smart. Don't despair we'll get you there. As t suggests, injuries are inevitable. It's how we deal with them.
> 
> *You could get down to 10% without cardio.* Would take alot longer but you could do it.
> 
> What was the Quack's prognosis?


not that i wanna give up cardio by any means but am a bit curious as to how?? and reducing cals is not something id like to do.. actually would prefer to eat more than i do now  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

also stem chk bottom of page 18 for explanation of knee prognosis  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

> not that i wanna give up cardio by any means but am a bit curious as to how?? and reducing cals is not something id like to do.. actually would prefer to eat more than i do now


You may only drop .25lb a week but you would still get there. We are only getting you enough cals to feed you at about 10%bf. So at some point you would get to 10% but we are making it quicker with the cardio.

----------


## Back In Black

> said like the knee itself is similar to 2 fists (my analogy for arguments sake) facing each other.. well the top ball has a "ding" in it on the outside like if u hit a piece of wood with a hammer.. and there are little fragments that broke off and r floating around in there.. he wanted to drill a plug out of my knee bigger than the ding and replace it with a cadaver bone.. this is after making an incision vertically from above the knee to below the knee..said id be able to put 0 weight on it for 3 months...needless to say back then i was also cutting and about where i am now and opted not .. he sucked the fluid off and gave me a cortisone shot and i never went back... its been 6 yrs...


Is the chip from the bone or cartilage? Either way that little bit floating around has the potential to do some damage. What's the long term prognosis if you don't get it done?

----------


## --->>405<<---

He said eventually i woukdnt be able to run on it .. And maybe not walk either? Like i said its been 6 yrs.. The doc that did my shoukder said he may be able to fix it orthoscopically.. Which would be alot less invasive and require less healing time.. I may chk into that..if the fluid doesnt recede...

----------


## --->>405<<---

> You may only drop .25lb a week but you would still get there. We are only getting you enough cals to feed you at about 10%bf. So at some point you would get to 10% but we are making it quicker with the cardio.


So my current diet should get me to 10% bf without cardio? I like havn the cardio for more reasons than just fatloss.. Cardiovascular mainly.. I come from a heart attack prone family...

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well 0430 fastd cardio in the am.. Shoulders at lunch.. Not much else to say.. Will be interestd 2c bf results this sunday.. I also have to get wife to show me how to use timer on her camera so i can take some pics for posting on sunday.. I dont think ill be putting on the tidy whitey style undies tbody wears but i may try a couple shots with boxer briefs .. My legs dont have alot of definition anyways.. Theyve always been good and thick.. As long as.i dont look too gay ill post them... Nite..

----------


## Papiriqui

> Well 0430 fastd cardio in the am.. Shoulders at lunch.. Not much else to say.. Will be interestd 2c bf results this sunday.. I also have to get wife to show me how to use timer on her camera so i can take some pics for posting on sunday.. I dont think ill be putting on the tidy whitey style undies tbody wears but i may try a couple shots with boxer briefs .. My legs dont have alot of definition anyways.. Theyve always been good and thick.. As long as.i dont look too gay ill post them... Nite..


Good job buddy!!

I think once we posted the first pictures we went past the gay point lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL yeh i guess ur rite pap.. well woke up at 0430 and did 45min cardio.. nice to get back on the elliptical after 2 days off.. i tell u i miss my cardio when i dont do it.. may do shoulders today may wait til tomorrow.. need to get oil changd in car so i have to pick whether to do it at lunch today or tomorrow..

----------


## tbody66

> Well 0430 fastd cardio in the am.. Shoulders at lunch.. Not much else to say.. Will be interestd 2c bf results this sunday.. I also have to get wife to show me how to use timer on her camera so i can take some pics for posting on sunday.. I dont think ill be putting on the tidy whitey style undies tbody wears but i may try a couple shots with boxer briefs .. My legs dont have alot of definition anyways.. Theyve always been good and thick.. As long as.i dont look too gay ill post them... Nite..


Not sure how I'm taking all this?.?.?. :Hmmmm:

----------


## --->>405<<---

LMAO ...!!!

sorry tbody..LOL i was just saying i personally would feel funny posing in the underwear style that u obviously feel comfortable wearing.. LOL didnt mean anything about u by it just used the kind u wore in ur pics to describe what i wasnt gonna be wearing.. i think its great that u dont have issues with modesty  :Wink:  sorry buddy...  :Smilie:

----------


## tbody66

Just be happy I take the time to put unders on! I reeaaallllyyyyy don't have an issue with modesty!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i decided to go ahead and get the oil changd and car washd today so itll be shoulders tomorrow.. been hungry as heck all day! i think its the testosterone  :Smilie: 

and tbody i think i speak for just about everybody when i say thank u for takn the time to put the tidy whiteys on  :Wink:  !!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well the alarm clock didnt work properly again (or maybe it was user error,my wife wakes me up everyday) either way no cardio *AGAIN* this am.. so it looks like 4 days cardio this week is gonna be the best i can do  :Smilie:  shoulders at lunch..

----------


## GirlyGymRat

just checkin in...maybe need two alarm clocks...his and hers!

----------


## SlimmerMe

^^ now that is funny, the comic she is

Keep on rollin' 405~

----------


## --->>405<<---

> just checkin in...maybe need two alarm clocks...his and hers!


u know girl thats not a bad idea.. i never use one cuz she says even when i do i dont hear it and she has to climb over me and still wake me up!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> ^^ now that is funny, the comic she is
> 
> Keep on rollin' 405~


she is a funny girl but thats not a bad idea slim  :Smilie:  funny how the simple solutions sometimes escape us  :Smilie:  

thx for stoppn by both u and girl..

have family over tonite so im grilln out which means i prob need to do bf tonite as well as pics.. although alot of the time when i cheat the next am when i wake up i still look thinner than i thought i would  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

oh yeh and shoulders went very well today..lifted in tank top(2nd time) and man the old shoulders r startn to look good.. striations and veins .. i wish the rest of me had the same bf% as my shoulders!

----------


## tbody66

pictures?

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL tbody.... U r sumthn else! Nice timing  :Smilie:  will b up by 0900

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok guys.. did bf last nite and it came bak at 12.74%  :Smilie: !
last week was 13.2%

weigh 194 this week
weighd 193 last week

pretty happy although i know my bf isnt really 12.74% but its still dropping.. got some pics to post as i do every 4th week.. would like to have opinions on bf if u dont mind.. 

stem and tbody if u look at the one where im just standing strait notice the left pec is not symmetrical to the right..that pisses me off.. wondering why? its the side i had shoulder surgery on so im wondering if that affecting how i do my lifts?? would love some advice as to wat to do ?? could it be possible that the other side is losing fat faster?? thx ...

----------


## --->>405<<---

also notice the poor symmetry on right shoulder and left shoulder..now the left one is the one i had surgery on and it appears bigger than the right.. so i have a better shoulder with the weaker pec.. whats up with that?

----------


## --->>405<<---

well since im bored and havent got a response yet i figd id put up 4 pics with the same pose.. original,3weeks,8weeks,today

----------


## Back In Black

Mate this is turning out to be an awesome transformation. Whilst there is a difference between left and right pec/delt we are all asymmetrical to a point. My pecs are completely different shapes too. You will notice this far more than others.

You are still using dumbbells on chest and shoulder work? If so that's the best thing to resolve size differences.

Mate, you look great, another 10lbs and it'll be truly freakin' awesome.

----------


## --->>405<<---

YEH stem the results r coming  :Smilie:  im def happy... ready to see the old ab muscles start popping thru.. i suppose ur rite about the asymmetry.. and yes i am still using db's on chest and shoulders.. think i will always use them.. 

thx for the compliment.. means alot coming from u .. ive been working hard and stayn pretty strict on my diet.. gotta get thru this week and then i plan to refocus bak to like i was when i first started.. im thinking another 12 weeks and i oughta really be happy! weight is stayn rite around the 195 mark.. fluctuates between 193 and 195 and has been like that for a month now.. although the last 2 pics show im still droppn fat and thats what i care about.. 

do u think i should just continue running everything the same? wkout/diet/cardio? should i incorporate anything difft? just dont wanna plateau and im very pleased that ive continued this far without one  :Smilie: 

also i dont know if uve lookd at tbodys thread but i was thinking and mentioned to him once i get bf down where i want it and hold there for a spell to show i can maybe considering a lean type bulk.. of which im def gonna need ur assistance .. (if u dont mind) but i suppose im getn ahead of myself.. first lets get me truly sub 12%...

----------


## Back In Black

Yeah, just run diet as you are for the forseeable. Even if your weight isn't dropping your bodyfat clearly is. If you are still progressing with weight and/or reps then keep going with the workout. Cardio is working for sure, so just keep doing it.

I'm a regular visitor to tbody's thread so I'm aware of your very sensible plans. Maintenance is easy in one way becuse you can do less cardio eat more but it's tough because there'll be no changes to your body for a while. Then a very lean bulk is also what I'm planning so you can learn from my mistakes on that score. Looks like we'll both be visiting tbody for workouts!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Keep on rolling  :Smilie:  that i can do ... Look forward to seeing u do a lean bulk as well as what kind of major butt kickn wkouts we can get from tbody.. Now thats gonna be difft.. I tell u i like the idea of eatn more and not "*HAVING*" to do as much cardio  :Smilie:  never done a bulk before always dun thr cut and never made it to where i could bulk.. Cut-someth happen - get fat- cut someth happen-get fat -cut- repeat -repeat- repeat 

Also id like to add i did cardio this am and it wAs really tuff to drag my butt outta bed  :Smilie:

----------


## Papiriqui

Holy crap!!! Dude i am speechless!! Honestly bro you look fan-freaking-tastic!! WOW is all i can say.

Great job 405, keep it up bro!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

pap thx man!  :Smilie:  yeh ive come a long way.. still have a ways to go .. hittn it hard still.. thinking im gonna maybe do another 8 weeks like i did this 12 weeks to see what it can bring.. that should put me around mid february.. then reevealuate  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well it was again difficult to wake up and do cardio this am.. i could only do 30 mins cuz of time.. i guess not being a major fat butt has taken away some of my drive to jump out of the bed.. need to refocus my motivation and not allow myself to become complacent .. this week i intend to keep rolling although i may have 2 or 3 cheat meals.. then 12/26/11 its back in the saddle hard.. lunch:chest and bis (my favorite day :Smilie: )

----------


## Papiriqui

> well it was again difficult to wake up and do cardio this am.. i could only do 30 mins cuz of time.. *i guess not being a major fat butt has taken away some of my drive to jump out of the bed.. need to refocus my motivation and not allow myself to become complacent* .. this week i intend to keep rolling although i may have 2 or 3 cheat meals.. then 12/26/11 its back in the saddle hard.. lunch:chest and bis (my favorite day)


Yeah bud i hear where you're coming from, remember it happens to the best of us, so with that being said dont worry about it, just make sure when that alarm clock goes off and you are already awake, go for it. Thats the way i look at it, if it already woke me up i am going to get up, otherwise i'll sleep the morning undisturbed!

Also remember that even though you look fantastic you are still not there yet, you still want to achieve a goal and to do that you still need to give it your best!! Good luck and hopefully tomorrow will be a better day!!

By the way every time from today on that i think about a small craving or even thinking of a small cheat, i will be thinking about you and the way you look, seriously you have left a mark on me, i see you and what you have accomplished by being consistent and i want to slap myself. From now on i will definitely think of you before i consider cheating!! Thanks for the inspiration!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

pap man thx for the encouraging and kind words  :Smilie:  true that on the alarm clock.. def not there yet.. and even when i get there i wanna* STAY THERE!!*

i think i had 5 cheat meals over the 12 week pd pap.. thats it! and those 5 were all in the last 7 weeks.. it has been tuff but worth it for sure now! thats one thing ive noticed about cheating is that once the meal is over the pleasure is also over but the consequences stick around alot longer !! that being said like ive read on here i think a controlled planned cheat is a good thing for many reasons.. 1 because it keeps u sane and gives u something to look forward to. 2 i think it helpd my body not to get too comfortabloe with the routine.. now the 2nd may not be scientifically accurate but my biggest week of fatloss and lbm gain was thanksgiving week where i had 2 cheat meals..

dont get me wrong now im not saying u should eat 2 cheat meals every week im just stating something that was indeed a fact for myself  :Smilie:

----------


## Papiriqui

> pap man thx for the encouraging and kind words  true that on the alarm clock.. def not there yet.. and even when i get there i wanna* STAY THERE!!*
> 
> i think i had 5 cheat meals over the 12 week pd pap.. thats it! and those 5 were all in the last 7 weeks.. it has been tuff but worth it for sure now! thats one thing ive noticed about cheating is that once the meal is over the pleasure is also over but the consequences stick around alot longer !! that being said like ive read on here i think a controlled planned cheat is a good thing for many reasons.. 1 because it keeps u sane and gives u something to look forward to. 2 i think it helpd my body not to get too comfortabloe with the routine.. now the 2nd may not be scientifically accurate but my biggest week of fatloss and lbm gain was thanksgiving week where i had 2 cheat meals..
> 
> *dont get me wrong now im not saying u should eat 2 cheat meals every week im just stating something that was indeed a fact for myself*


You never know, that might work for you!! That's the trick with dieting and stuff that you need to look for what works for you best, whether is a cheat meal or a cheat day, controlled of course but sometimes that works.

My buddy is an amateur bodybuilder and this guy before he got into bodybuilding would eat anything and still does and his bf is in check, always. All bodies are not the same, or react the same, so with that said if you are doing something and its working, keep doing it, if you cheat a lot and you see no results than stop cheating lol. Thats the way it work.

----------


## --->>405<<---

:Smilie:  ur buddy is a lucky fella.. if u wanna see what eating anything will do for me check out page 7 of this thread LOL...know what ur saying though.. i may play around a little once i get to where i wanna be.. now i dont have time to slow the process  :Wink: 

had a good chest AND bi workout today.. kept it lite on the db presses.. not sure what to do though i did 4 sets of 12 with the 70lb dbs fairly easily and the only thing i can do now is keep increasing reps or go up in weight.. dont wanna aggravate the old shoulder though.. i could give the 80s a try i suppose.. pretty much the same thing with the incloine dbs...

----------


## Papiriqui

If you did 70 don't go 80 go 75, baby steps let the shoulder get used to the increase.

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL yeh i was thinking bout doing the 90s..to me 80 was being conservative! :Smilie: thats what i was doing.. but ur rite..next week ill try the 75s..

----------


## tbody66

Hey there Cave Bear, you ever think of Shaving???

----------


## Papiriqui

> Hey there Cave Bear, you ever think of Shaving???


^^ lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Hey there Cave Bear, you ever think of Shaving???


LOL!! Yeh i thought about it tbody but until now there not
Much point ... I wouldve just lookd like a fat guy with a shaved chest!! Also i dunno about the stubble grown back.. And its winter and the only one that sees me shirtless is my wife..(and yall :Smilie: ) ill see how she feels about it.. Seems a little weird to me ..Who knows i may like it. Def consider it come spring...

----------


## tbody66

Two things. One, it will make a noticeably positive difference in your appearance. Two, you will be much more motivated to get lagging parts up to speed when you see your imperfections without cover!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Two things. One, it will make a noticeably positive difference in your appearance. Two, you will be much more motivated to get lagging parts up to speed when you see your imperfections without cover!


I hear ya tbody but i dont need to shave my chesthair to see that  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

So tbody these r my wkouts so u can help me get some more variety  :Smilie:  thx alot bro!

Chest: 
Incl DB 4 x 8-12
Flat DB 4 x 8-12
Incl cable 3 x 10-12
Pec deck 3 x 12(pausing in middle n holding squeeze)
Decl DB 2 x failure
Flat bb curl 4 x 15 (last 2sets after 15 with flat bar i superset with easy curl bar to failure)
*AS U SEE I DO BIS ON CHEST DAY*

Back:
Seated rows 4 x 10-12
Wide lat pulldown 3 x 10-12
Neutral pldown 3 x 10-12
Deads 4 x 8-12
Weighted crunch 4 x 12-15
Reverse crunch 4 x 12

Legs/tris:
Squat (the wkout u gave me) 
Split squat 2 x 10
Rom dead 4 x 8-12
Closegrip bench 4 x 15-20 supersettd with
1 hand pushdown 4 x 10-15

Shoulders:
Seatd DB press 4 x 15
Lat raise 2 x 15
Front raise 2 x 15
Facepulls 4 x 8-12
Seated bb press(smith) 2 x failure

And thats it... These reps i do were switching weeks as in 1 week id do 5-8 reps on everything heavy and the next week 10-12 lighter but cuz of shoulder ive been going lighter on all sets except for back ...

Thx man  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well i did my 45 min cardio this am.. Had day off and went to lunch with my brother.. Had well lets just say a cheat meal and then bak on diet.. 1 maybe 2 more cheat meals this week then next week bak to normal.. Kinda ready to get it over with.. Tomorrow cardio legs and tris...

----------


## Back In Black

That seated barbell shoulder press, doesn't bother your shoulder? Others can chime in but doing it on a smith machine has the potential to be very damaging even for those with healthy shoulders.

Oh, and only pussies shave. Real men wax!!!!

----------


## Papiriqui

> That seated barbell shoulder press, doesn't bother your shoulder? Others can chime in but doing it on a smith machine has the potential to be very damaging even for those with healthy shoulders.
> 
> Oh, and only pussies shave. Real men wax!!!!


Than I am a little girl SteM because I tried a long time ago waxing my chest and after the first pull I was like HELLLL NOOOO, my skin is to sensitive and it gets very bumpy.

One of my shoulder exercises is in the smith machine a bit incline in front and is one of the exercises I love the most.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> *That seated barbell shoulder press, doesn't bother your shoulder?* Others can chime in but doing it on a smith machine has the potential to be very damaging even for those with healthy shoulders.
> 
> Oh, and only pussies shave. Real men wax!!!!


actually it doesnt bother it at all! i only come down to where my upper arm is parallel to the floor i dont bring the bar to my chest/neck.. i usually do it last thing with 135lb and as many reps as i can do.. usually between 20-25... for 2 sets.. u think i should stop??

apparently (i went to doc for knee yest) i may have the prob i told u bout previously but also he said it looks like theres arthritis in there as well.. isnt that great! wonder how thats gonna play out over the next 20 yrs.. arthritis in shoulder and knee both on rite side  :Smilie: YAY!!!!! my mom went to arthritis doc (shes 58) and he told her theres nothing he can do and is sending her to pain mgmt.. and she doesnt do any exercising and never has.. he said i could take the chondroitin(which im taking) .. i askd about deca durabolin and he kinda chuckled and said it may help my joints but also may hurt my heart..

woke up this am late again and did 30 mins cardio..think im gonna have to get my own alarm clock..

----------


## --->>405<<---

as for the waxing/shaving i dont think id ever use a razor to get rid of body hair.. may wax .. once i get bf where i like it i will prob just neaten it up with clippers first and see how i like that..

----------


## Papiriqui

> as for the waxing/shaving i dont think id ever use a razor to get rid of body hair.. may wax .. once i get bf where i like it i will prob just neaten it up with clippers first and see how i like that..


I use razor blade for arms only, legs havent shaved them in years but once BF comes to where i want it then i will get back to shaving again! Chest abs and back is all peanut clipper. Once the abs come out i might use razor blade. I will definitely not wax, that sh!t is painfull!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

peanut clipper?? that like regular clippers i shave my head with?

----------


## Bill_boy2005

I went the laser route, little spendy, but its nice only touching up my back and chest every few weeks. Just finished my treatments up though, so we will see what regrowth looks like a year or so down the line.

----------


## --->>405<<---

how much bill?????

----------


## gbrice75

I use razors all the time, it's a PAIN IN THE ASS!!! I used to shave arms but now i'm just like, fvck it. Keep in mind I have to shave my damn head every other day too... just too much to keep up with after a while!

Luckily, my wife is good enough to shave my back for me all summer!

----------


## SlimmerMe

Have a wonderful Christmas 405~

----------


## Papiriqui

> how much bill?????


The good places are like 5k for the back, same for the front, like 3k for legs, is a total rip off, for that money i'll shave!!

----------


## Papiriqui

> peanut clipper?? that like regular clippers i shave my head with?


Yeah i think is a Wahl Peanut Trimmer, pretty good and it leave just a bit of the hair, really close though, depending on how fast your hair grows it could be weeks before you use it again. I have to use it every weekend!

----------


## --->>405<<---

ill have to look into that pap..

on a difft note.. i did legs and tris today.. workout went well.. i substituted split squat for 1 leg press to see if it was better on the knee.. i dont think so  :Smilie: wasnt any easier either!.. added an xtra set of close grip bench/1hand pushdowns and went up on reps and weight.. i think the test is kikn in..

speaking of which.. i was the only one in the gym today and u know what that meant? take off the shirt and flex in the mirror time LOL!! i tell u i *LOVE* THE LIGHTING IN THE GYM.. man i was seeing all kinds of stuff popping out.. getting the cut where the lats meet the abs .. still got a little love handle to lose but im freaking stoked dude!!! i was looking awesome.. !!!!! now obviously not compared to ronnie coleman awesome but compared to me 3 months ago awesome.. i was kind of wishing i had a friend or 2 in there so they could see what i was seeing.. 

it looks like im getting the perfect timing with my test and diet and lifting all starting to come together.. i may take my phone in there next time and take some pics so yall can see.. and im not bragging or anything but i have been wkn my butt off and im just happy as heck to see its startn to pay off... i think being low test for so long(i dont know how long but ive had a hard time acquiring muscle for awhile) its just great to see im actually gaining some :Smilie: !!!!!!!!! by the summer if i stay like im going its gonna be a sight to see.. !! i may actually ,no im definitely going to the beach this year! WOOOO HOOOO!!!!!!! LOL

----------


## tbody66

I shave the arms one day a week, the chest and abs one day and the legs one day so it isn't too time consuming. I use the peanut for my legs first and sometimes that's all I'll do. Since I'm tanning I like to stay clean shaven all over, my wife will do anything I ask(yes gentlemen ANYTHING) and that includes shaving my back, I like the peanut again here to keep from the breakouts. I had heard that waxing was better because your hair supposedly grows back thinner and thinner after each waxing. I tried it once but didn't see it any different that when I shave and it was more expensive and time consuming.

405, when are pics?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I shave the arms one day a week, the chest and abs one day and the legs one day so it isn't too time consuming. I use the peanut for my legs first and sometimes that's all I'll do. Since I'm tanning I like to stay clean shaven all over, my wife will do anything I ask(yes gentlemen ANYTHING) and that includes shaving my back, I like the peanut again here to keep from the breakouts. I had heard that waxing was better because your hair supposedly grows back thinner and thinner after each waxing. I tried it once but didn't see it any different that when I shave and it was more expensive and time consuming.
> 
> *405, when are pics?*


try 4 DAYS AGO!!! TBODY  :Smilie:  remember ur comment about me being a hairy bear??? check the bottom of page 19 there buddy  :Wink:  u been able to look at my current wkout and think about how i can mix it up yet??

----------


## tbody66

Tell me the days of the week you are able to workout. I see a few ways to maximize the routine that will make immediately noticable gains.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I use razors all the time, it's a PAIN IN THE ASS!!! I used to shave arms but now i'm just like, fvck it. Keep in mind I have to *shave my damn head* every other day too... just too much to keep up with after a while!
> 
> Luckily, my *wife is good enough* to shave my back for me all summer!


i shave my head too gb although i dont use a razor just clippers and once a week  :Smilie:  of course if the slight balding i noticed about 3 yrs ago keeps going i may have to increase the frequency..

i had my wife shave my back too.. i think she was suspicious LOL cuz she askd why i wanted her to do it...

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Have a wonderful Christmas 405~


u2 slim and thx girl  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Tell me the days of the week you are able to workout. I see a few ways to maximize the routine that will make immediately noticable gains.


tbody i can lift mon- sat..i do take tuesdays off and i like only having to lift 4 days/week cuz it gives me a little flexibility cuz sometimes i work at nite .. i do it on my lunch hr so i have 50 mins max to get it dun..prob closer to 45 mins..

----------


## tbody66

Mon: Chest/Biceps/Abs/Calves
Tue: Off
Wed: Back/Triceps/Calves
Thu: Off
Fri: Legs
Sat: Shoulders/Triceps/Biceps
Sun: Off
I will have you incorporate alot of supersets(you performing biceps on a push day inspired this) so you will be able to traumatize the muscle tissue in very special ways. I need to know if the above split will work for you so I can design the specifics.

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh that sounds good  :Smilie:  as far as calves go genetically i have great calves..they run in my family.. never workd them and until now never felt the need.. i will however work them if u want me to.. i know they can be a trouble/lagging spot for most but not me! didnt know if maybe if u knew that(although i doubt it :Wink: ) u may wanna sub it for something else.. but the split looks good  :Smilie:  and i really appreciate it!

----------


## --->>405<<---

good morning fellow nutrition resource forum people  :Smilie:  well today i woke up and didnt do a dang thing  :Smilie:  however at lunch ill be hitting it hard on back and abs.. looking leaner again in the mirror than i did last nite and my belt thats currently buckled on a hole ive only dreamed about in the past is getting looser still.. other than that not alot to add at this point .. lookn forward to the wkout tbody gives me  :Smilie:  hope yall have a great day!

----------


## Papiriqui

Good job body, keep it up  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Not alot to say other than my bf% i had chekd at trt doc came bak at 15.3%.. im actually happy with that number.. I havent been 100% confident in wifes ability to properly measure but for me 12 weeks in 15% i am happy with.. So 3% or so to go to accomplish original goal of sub 12% .. 

Stem the doc also provides me with nutrition woman who was very lean and lookd the part.. She said refeeding every 14 days over time may cause metabolism to become a bit "sluggish" and recommended 2 high carb days.. Now u and i both know my current diet is working and im very happy with results so far but wondering ur thoughts on this?? I dont plan on changing anything until fatloss slows down.. Just wanted ur take ?? 

Tomorrow when i have more time ill type exactly what she wrote but i think thats the jist..  :Smilie:

----------


## tbody66

Good to know about the calves. Most peoples calves are primarily slow twitch muscle fibers in most individuals and can be trained more frequently and need to be trained differently if you have naturally developed calves then you will get an even more special treatment.

----------


## Back In Black

> Not alot to say other than my bf% i had chekd at trt doc came bak at 15.3%.. im actually happy with that number.. I havent been 100% confident in wifes ability to properly measure but for me 12 weeks in 15% i am happy with.. So 3% or so to go to accomplish original goal of sub 12% .. 
> 
> Stem the doc also provides me with nutrition woman who was very lean and lookd the part.. She said refeeding every 14 days over time may cause metabolism to become a bit "sluggish" and recommended 2 high carb days.. Now u and i both know my current diet is working and im very happy with results so far but wondering ur thoughts on this?? I dont plan on changing anything until fatloss slows down.. Just wanted ur take ?? 
> 
> Tomorrow when i have more time ill type exactly what she wrote but i think thats the jist..


Well, the refeed is to actually boost your metabolism, did she know exactly how many carbs you are taking in on a normal day? I'm not going to cast aspertions on her or what she says or looks like but, you are right. It's working for you. Damn well if I don't mind saying so.

But I'll be interested to hear her full take on it.

Re: waxing. Yep your hair grows back thinner and weaker everytime, though it takes several years of regular waxing for it not to come back at all. Women who consistently overpluck their eyebrows will be testament to that.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Good to know about the calves. Most peoples calves are primarily slow twitch muscle fibers in most individuals and can be trained more frequently and need to be trained differently *if you have naturally developed calves then you will get an even more special treatment.*




Oh boy! That sounds interesting :Smilie:  lucky me.. I know ur busy w Christmas and all but do u have a guesstimation as to when i may get the wkout from u? Not rushing u at all just the way my brain works id like to know when to look for it So i can prepare for a change-up  :Smilie:

----------


## Papiriqui

Yeah buddy, that goal is getting closer and closer, happy for you man!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Abcs 


> Well, the refeed is to actually boost your metabolism, did she know exactly how many carbs you are taking in on a normal day? I'm not going to cast aspertions on her or what she says or looks like but, you are right. It's working for you. Damn well if I don't mind saying so.
> 
> But I'll be interested to hear her full take on it.
> 
> Yeh stem i forgot the paper so ill put it in tonite.. And im *definitely* far more inclined to trust ur diet advice over hers just wanted to let u know what she said to see what u thought.. Do u think there may come a time where it would be more advantageous for me to carb cycle? Or is it too soon to tell because i continue to have good results? I guess what im trying to ask is can carb cycling get me leaner than just a strait low carb diet can? Does that ever happen where low carb works great for aperson to a point and then the results just stop?
> 
> Re: waxing. Yep your hair grows back thinner and weaker everytime, though it takes several years of regular waxing for it not to come back at all. Women who consistently overpluck their eyebrows will be testament to that.

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^^^ dont ask me how i did that cuz i have no idea LOL

Did my 45 mins cardio this am and killed it! Did over 2700total reps in 45 mins and burnd 775 cals... Usually i shoot for above 2500total reps and 700 cals..

----------


## tbody66

This is going to be a five week Dumbbell only workout, beginning Mon(you are allowed to start today if you'd like, let me know)

Mon: Chest/Biceps/Abs/Calves

Superset Incline DB Bench with Seated Hammer Curls 3 sets of 12 reps and a 4th set to failure(I'll suggest 30lb db's for hammer curls-keep the weight the same for all sets)
(for incline bench warm-up progressively 3 sets of 8(30lbs,40lbs,50lbs) til you get to 60lb dumbbells then you will use the 60lb db's for all of your chest work - you will need to record your exact numbers for me in order for me to adjust the weight for the next week)
Superset Flat DB Bench with Seated alternating dumbbell Curls 3 sets of 12 reps and a 4th set to failure(turning the pinkies into the shoulder as far as possible at the top of the movement while squeezing the biceps as hard as you can on every rep I'd recommend 20lb db's for this-keep the weight the same for all sets. There will be no warm up sets here, just sticking with the 60lb db's for the 4 sets on Bench)
Superset Decline DB Bench with DB Preacher Curls 3 sets of 12 reps and a 4th set to failure(no warm-up required again(your chest and arms are plenty warm stick with the 60lbs for bench and 20lbs for curls)
Superset Standing Calf Raises with Bicycles 4 sets 125 reps each(on a 2x4 or similar sized object, a full one second pause at the complete top and a full one second stretch at the bottom on each rep)

Tue: Off

Wed: Back/Triceps/Calves/Abs

Superset Bodyweight Chin-ups with Bodyweight Dips 3 sets of 12 reps and a 4th set to failure(since these are bodyweight exercises there
Superset DB rows with Standing Triceps extensions 3 sets of 12 reps and a 4th set to failure(On all DB rows always keep your elbow in as close to your body as possible, on this set you are going to bring the dumbbell up to your hip)
Superset DB rows with DB Skull Crushers 3 sets of 12 reps and a 4th set to failure(On these DB rows you will bring the weight up into your chest, keeping the elbow in as close to your body as possible)
Superset Standing Calf Raises with Bicycles 4 sets 125 reps each(on a 2x4 or similar sized object, a full one second pause at the complete top and a full one second stretch at the bottom on each rep)

Thu: Off

Fri: Legs/Abs

Lunges 3 sets of 30 reps(left leg in front right leg behind about the distance apart of the stride of a brisk walk, lower straight down, with your body remaining completely upright, you want to lower your core straight down and raise straight back up, so both your front and back legs should be opening and lowering/closing and raising simultaneously, this will put equal pressure on the front and back leg perform 10 reps this way then switch front leg and perform 10 reps, back and forth until you have complted 30 reps with each leg being in front - this equals one set - you might want to start with just bodyweight here)
Stiff legged Deadlifts 3 sets 30 reps (I'd recommend 20 lb db's here, this is a stretch, but the best exercise made for the hamstrings, if you perform them correctly. At the top you will be standing erect with your shoulders back and the dumbbells down to your sides, feet together, as you bend at the waist and lean forward you'll bring the dumbbells to your front and go down as if you would be touching your toes, at the bottom of the range of motion you will make a conscious effort to push your butt back as far as you can while keeping your knees locked, hold the bottom for a full 2 second count then slowly return to beginning position)
One Legged Squats 3 sets 30 reps (Stand in front of a flat bench, about 12-18 inches facing away from the bench, place one of your legs behind you on the bench and lower straight down while keeping your body vertical to the floor. Again probably trading front leg every 10 reps until you perform 30 with each leg as the front/working leg - this equals one ser)
Superset Standing Calf Raises with Bicycles 4 sets 125 reps each(on a 2x4 or similar sized object, a full one second pause at the complete top and a full one second stretch at the bottom on each rep)

Sat: Shoulders/Triceps/Biceps

Superset Standing Military Press/Standing Triceps Extensions/Hammer Curls 3 sets 25 reps and 4th set to failure
Superset Upright Rows/Bench Dips/Standing Alternating Dumbbell Curls 3 sets 25 reps and 4th set to failure
Superset Shrugs/DB Skull Crushers/Concentration Curls 3 sets 25 reps and 4th set to failure(On your shrugs hold for a 3 second count at the top)

Sun: Off

After writing this all out I really want you to start today, if at all possible, I really think this will get your attention and your body will respond amazingly!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Dang tbody im lookn forward to this for sure!!! I know its gonna be brutal as well as take me a week or 2 to get it in gkod rhythm  :Smilie:  thx alot man!!! 

2 main questions.. 1.u want me to do 125 calf raises and 125 bicycles for each set?
2.after 5 weeks do i go back to the workout im doing now and just alternate every 5 weeks??

----------


## tbody66

Yes on the calf raises and the bicycles, and make sure on all of your super-sets that you are moving from one to the next and then back, or else you won't be finished in the 45 mins you have to get'r'done! The great news about the workout is that you only need the first warm-up on the first set and then your body is warmed up for the whole workout.

This particular workout is designed to accomplish two things both primarily due to the fact that you are on a cut for another 8 weeks. The dumbbells will help with how your muscles look and you won't have to be focusing on whether or not you are losing strength, your muscles will become independantly strong and much better able to help for the next phase, at the end of the five weeks I'll probably be recommending that you take a week off, then we will start you with a strength building program, if we implement this while you have two weeks left of a cut then you will be able to grasp and re-transition to the simple compound movements and get the timing and routine down before we start adding weight. I actually see it is the best of all worlds and tying in directly to your personal goals. You will rock out 2012 like you never, ever, ever imagined!

----------


## --->>405<<---

one other thing tbody.. now if i do 125 reps for calf and 125 reps for bicycles and it takes me 2 secs per rep and i do 4 sets of each thatl be:

(125 x 2secs) x 2exercises = 500 secs/ superset x 4 supersets = 2000 secs/ 60 = 33 mins just to do calves and abs which will only leave me 12 mins to do everything else... i may be able to get it done if i do 1sec/rep thatl put me at approx 16.5minutes leaving 28 minutes for the rest.. any thoughts on this? i still think ill be balls to the wall for the entire 45mins with 0 break... do u think maybe i should try 1 sec/rep and do 2 supersets which will take 8.25 mins(approx lets call it 10) which will give me 35 mins for the rest??  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

oh btw im ready to rock 2012 like i never* EVER*  imagined!!!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well days dun.. Did cardio this am and thats it.. Had christmas party at work so i had a rib some choppd boston butt a roll(some hawaiian roll was awesome) brunswick stew and couple bites poundcake and some caramel popcorn and glazed pecan mix that was divine  :Smilie: 

Tomorrow cardio/shoulders
Monday its on tbody.. Hope i dont gain any weight b4 then  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

happy christmas eve fellows and gals

well woke up late with no cardio.. no biggie.. my sleep was interrupted by some weird kind of allergic reaction to something(i think my clothes).. i got out of shower last nite and put on a tank top i havent worn in months.. it was a white one most of mine r black.. anyways i noticed it kind of itched around my shoulders like there was hair on it from when i finish shaving my head(which is what i thought).. it wasnt that bad so i just kept rolling.. well long story short i fell asleep on the couch and woke up sweating and all itchy.. i took off the tank top and had hives all over my torso.. not fun  :Smilie:  im rarely allergic to anything but im married to a woman who is allergic to her allergy bracelet! so she gave me some benadryl and mommy'd me back to sleep.. needless to say i didnt feel like waking up at 0430 and doing any cardio..

lunch today:shoulders

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## tbody66

It won't take you two seconds to perform any single rep of either abs or cardio. You shoud perform them in a second or less. Since it's at the end of your workout you can obviously adjust if needed, but don't slack on the rest of the workout just so you don't have to do the prescribed calf/ab work  :Wink:

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## --->>405<<---

yeh i hadnt plannd to..im not a slacker!  :Wink:  but u instructed me to pause 1 sec at the top and bottom of each rep..  :Smilie:

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## tbody66

Fair enough, let's change that to just making sure you aren't letting the weight control your motion but you are making a conscious effort to be fully locked out at the top and full stretched at the bottom.

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok  :Smilie:  yeh i wanna and am gonna try to do it all.. i think if nothing else if i cant get it all in it will be a challenge that im never able to conquer which is how im lookn at it.. if i can go 45mins strait from 1 exercise to the other without stopping ill be one bad son of a gun!  :Wink:

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## tbody66

Yes you will be!

----------


## SlimmerMe

> oh btw im ready to rock 2012 like i never* EVER*  imagined!!!!!!


And I bet you will!

Christmas is almost here.......MERRY MERRY to you 405~

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thank God its over!!! 1 more piece of chocolate cake before bed and back to business.. I tell u im tired of eatn fattening regular food! Ready to get bak on the diet.. Stem i really (after 3 months) notice how crappy i feel after eatn unhealthy food.. It almost makes it not worth it.. I told my wife yesterday i dEf couldnt go bak to eatn like this all the time.. Hope everyone had/is havn a good day  :Smilie:

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## tbody66

It's so true, I've been eating whatever I want and it just has zero appeal to me after two bites.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well its good to be back..woke up 0430 and did 45 mins fasted cardio.. just finishd my eggs and shrimp and oats.. (sigh)very refreshing.. i think i may be addicted to my diet LOL.. lunch i start new wkout given to me by tbody..should be tuff..lookn forward to seeing how it plays out.. glad christmas is dun... time to move on  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

FANTASTIC WORKOUT TBODY!! IT KICKED MY BUTT  :Smilie: 

heres what i actually did:

incl db:
12 x 45
12 x 60
12 x 60
21 x 60

flat db:
12 x 60
12 x 60
12 x 60
21 x 60

decl db:
12 x 60
12 x 60
12 x 60
20 x 60

seat hammer curl :
12 x 25
12 x 25
12 x 25
15 x 25

seat alternating curl ;
8 x 20
12 x 15
12 x 15
17 x 15

db curl:
12 x 20 (preacher cable 2 hands)---->>>bad equipment cant do preacher db
12 x 20(preacher db)
15 x 15(standing db)
15 x 15(standing db)

calves standing:
33,35,30

bicycles:
46,35,38

OUT OF TIME  :Smilie: 

obviously i need work on calves abs and bis... couldnt get even close to 125 reps on either and dont think ill be abloe to for awhile!

great wkout thx alot man.. i noticed my shoulders felt like they were getting workd as well between the chest and bi supersets..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well guys i had wife do bf tonite just for the heck of it.. Figd itd come bak where i put on some fat and maybe i did but according to the test im at 12.72% 

Last week i was 12.74%

Now i weigh 4 lbs more this week at 198lbs.. Long story short im pleased with results of christmas week.. I know i didnt put on 4 lbs muscle and no fat LOL but hey it didnt hurt me 2 bad.. Will prob take a week or so to be able to really trust my scale and calipers.. 

Hope everyones havn a good holiday  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well not alot to add today.. Guess everyones still on vacation from nutrition section  :Smilie:  had mri on knee this am so i didnt do am fasted cardio.. But instead since i did it midday instead of doing 45 mins did 60 mins.. Havent done 60mins cardio since i startd my diet! Wasnt too tuff just seemd alot more than 15mins longer than whAt i usually do.. Getn back in the groove i think  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Mate those extra 15 minutes can seem as long as the first 45 sometimes. Glad you had a good festive period and very glad you recommenced your diet quickly.

What format is your cardio taking at the minute? Are you doing it measuring heart rate?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Stem thx man hope u had a good holiday as well  :Smilie:  good to see u ..

As far as cardio goes its the same as its pretty much always been.. Moderate pace steady state.. HR at @156 Bpm the whole time.. Im not reAl big on HIIT.. Prob the lazy coming out in me  :Smilie:  while im thinking about it ill pull out my file from trt doc and tell u wat the nutrition woman said ...

Oh also i would do HIiT mind u if i hit a plateau or if it became necessary .. Not closed to it and have dun it some to this point but since the old knee startd actn up i discontinued all hiit..

Still lookn leaner in the mirror .. Im back on for another 8 weeks to see where it gets me.. Get results of mri jan 10 and im sure surgery is gonna be recommended.. Pls tell me im not gonna get fat again or even gain back some fat!!?????

----------


## Papiriqui

Good job buddy!! How was that chocolate cake?? Lol Hope you had a great Christmas  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ok stem this is what she said:"you stated u have been trying a particular diet for 12 weeks with 1 carb day every 2weeks. This approach may eventually make ur metabolism sluggish. U may want to consider a more moderate option manipulate carb consumption and allow for 2 days of higher carb consumption. This combines the benefits of a low carb diet with periodic days of carb loading and does not have a negative effect on ur metabolism. I have been practicing a moderate carb cycling plan for months. My plan is below for u to get an idea of the types of foods and when im eating them."

It appears she has 2 high carb days per 6 days .. 

Mon high
Tue low
Wed low
Thu low
Fri high
Sat low
Sun not shown??

High day:
Meal 1:2eggwhites 1/2c oats

Meal2:1c blk beans,quinoa,1c veggies

Meal3:4oz chkn, salad

Meal4:1c veggies

Meal5:no bean turkey veggie chili

Meal6:2 egg whites

Low carb day:
Meal1:6oz pro shake, 1/2 grapefruit

Meal2:1rice cake, 1/2c veggies

Meal3:2c no bean veggie chili, salad

Meal4:1c veggies

Meal5:chk breast,veggies,1/2 grapefruit

Meal6:2 egg whites

----------


## tbody66

> FANTASTIC WORKOUT TBODY!! IT KICKED MY BUTT 
> 
> heres what i actually did:
> 
> incl db:
> 12 x 45
> 12 x 60
> 12 x 60
> 21 x 60
> ...


My pleasure, I really think this will accomplish all we want it too!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Good job buddy!! How was that chocolate cake?? Lol Hope you had a great Christmas


Pap the choc cake was great! Had 3 pieces..Christmas was a blessing! Glad its over  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> My pleasure, I really think this will accomplish all we want it too!


Me 2 tbody.. Tomorrow is legs i believe.. Calves r sore today.. Feels weird.. Dont think ive ever had sore calves before  :Wink:

----------


## tbody66

Glad to hear it. I am excited to see your post from leg day!

----------


## Papiriqui

> Me 2 tbody.. Tomorrow is legs i believe.. Calves r sore today.. Feels weird.. Dont think ive ever had sore calves before


Yeah we are to have to start calling him T(calves)BODY because since i started following his advice on calves they are sore and honest to god when i finish a set i want to rip them off from my legs!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

ur rite pap  :Smilie:  

well this am i did no cardio.. have (hopefully) a pulled muscle that runs down my back just inside of my right shoulderblade vertically.. had it for a week now.. it went away for a couple days and now its back! i wonder if i did it doing deads?? needless to say i slept like crap and since i did cardio mon and tues i said screw it im gonna sleep more this am.. man i hope this thing goes away soon! 

tbody today is actually back so maybe itll get stretched out a bit..

----------


## tbody66

> ur rite pap  
> 
> well this am i did no cardio.. have (hopefully) a pulled muscle that runs down my back just inside of my right shoulderblade vertically.. had it for a week now.. it went away for a couple days and now its back! i wonder if i did it doing deads?? needless to say i slept like crap and since i did cardio mon and tues i said screw it im gonna sleep more this am.. man i hope this thing goes away soon! 
> 
> tbody today is actually back so maybe itll get stretched out a bit..


lighten the weight up and be purposeful(even more than usual) with your negative(eccentric/lowering) portion of the exercise to get a full stretch of the muscle and make it a point not to favor nor shy away from the area in question, which could cause you additional and/or further issues.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well tbody another great workout man! it was back/tris/abs/calves...

did better than i thought i would do on pullups.. ive always been bad at them but with the "back day" SteM gave me a couple months ago i did 6 sets of lat pulldowns which i think helped.. u told me to do 3 sets of 12 and 4th set to failure.. i was actually able to do: 12,11,10,7 .. so pretty happy with that..

dips i only did one set and went back to close grip bench cuz of shoulder.. did 135 lbs 15,15,25 so i prob need to increase weight...

bent rows all 8 sets with 40 lb DBs.. i felt weird bringing to my hips on first 4 sets.. i liked it.. think i did 12,12,12,17 to hips and 12,12,12,18 to chest

standing tris i did with 25 lb DBs after 1 set with 30s.. failure set i think was 17

DB nosebreakers were awkward til i figd i could do them in "hammer extension"format.. could only get 10 last 2 sets..tris were thru by then  :Smilie: 

calves i did:40,33,40

abs i did:50,30,40

good day! thx again.. friday is leg day  :Smilie:  its a very nice change-up.. later down the road itll be nice to use this wkout and hopefully another one u give me as well as the one stem gave me to always keep the old body guessing  :Smilie:  looking good in the mirror as well..i even took my shirt off with people in the gym today! (maybe i shoudlnt brag about that LOL)

----------


## Back In Black

> Ok stem this is what she said:"you stated u have been trying a particular diet for 12 weeks with 1 carb day every 2weeks. This approach may eventually make ur metabolism sluggish. U may want to consider a more moderate option manipulate carb consumption and allow for 2 days of higher carb consumption. This combines the benefits of a low carb diet with periodic days of carb loading and does not have a negative effect on ur metabolism. I have been practicing a moderate carb cycling plan for months. My plan is below for u to get an idea of the types of foods and when im eating them."
> 
> It appears she has 2 high carb days per 6 days .. 
> 
> Mon high
> Tue low
> Wed low
> Thu low
> Fri high
> ...


Her 'high' carb day is lower than your normal 'low' carb day!. ANd her low day is, as far as I'm concerned, a zero carb day. Maybe it works for her but I'd argue her diet is more likely to make a metabolism sluggish. Though I don't know her goals so I'm not gonna comment on her diet further.

The real 'test' to this is that when you cheat personally, you seem to notice your body almost looking better and definitely feeling better the next day!? That means it is working for you, stick with it.

Shirt off in the locker room? Good lad, that's definite progress.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Her 'high' carb day is lower than your normal 'low' carb day!. ANd her low day is, as far as I'm concerned, a zero carb day. Maybe it works for her but I'd argue her diet is more likely to make a metabolism sluggish. Though I don't know her goals so I'm not gonna comment on her diet further.
> 
> The real 'test' to this is that when you cheat personally, you seem to notice your body almost looking better and definitely feeling better the next day!? That means it is working for you, stick with it.
> 
> *Shirt off in the locker room?* Good lad, that's definite progress.


not the locker room..the actual gym LOL.. they have more mirrors and better light.. no girls to speak of in there so im not "that guy"  :Wink: 

and yes i didnt plan on following her advice and maybe it works for her but my diet is wkn for me just wanted to show u what she said cuz i told u i would...

hope ur feeln better  :Smilie:

----------


## tbody66

> well tbody another great workout man! it was back/tris/abs/calves...
> 
> did better than i thought i would do on pullups.. ive always been bad at them but with the "back day" SteM gave me a couple months ago i did 6 sets of lat pulldowns which i think helped.. u told me to do 3 sets of 12 and 4th set to failure.. i was actually able to do: 12,11,10,7 .. so pretty happy with that..
> 
> dips i only did one set and went back to close grip bench cuz of shoulder.. did 135 lbs 15,15,25 so i prob need to increase weight...
> 
> bent rows all 8 sets with 40 lb DBs.. i felt weird bringing to my hips on first 4 sets.. i liked it.. think i did 12,12,12,17 to hips and 12,12,12,18 to chest
> 
> standing tris i did with 25 lb DBs after 1 set with 30s.. failure set i think was 17
> ...


That would have been awesome to watch you holding dumbbells with palms facing away from you, like they were attached invisibly, would have looked like you were a mime, that's some funny stuff right there.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well u know tbody im here to entertain u my man !!  :Smilie:

----------


## Papiriqui

Shirt off, i am impressed!!! That shows a lot of progress (physically wise) and confidence. Keep that hard work going buddy, definitely paying off  :Wink: 

Good job!

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx pap  :Smilie: 

looks like ill be at work til after midnite..gonna make it tuff to get up at 0530 and do cardio  :Smilie:

----------


## First6

Just did a quick once over through your thread. Great progress. 
Keep it up. don't let yourslef slide. It gets easy to do that when your close to the end for some reason.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Just did a quick once over through your thread. Great progress. 
> Keep it up. don't let yourslef slide. It gets easy to do that when your close to the end for some reason.


hey thx alot man  :Smilie:  appreciate the encouragement.. i dont plan on slacking thats for sure.. still hittn it hard man  :Smilie:

----------


## First6

> hey thx alot man  appreciate the encouragement.. i dont plan on slacking thats for sure.. still hittn it hard man


That's what I like to hear!

----------


## gbrice75

> Shirt off, i am impressed!!! That shows a lot of progress (physically wise) and confidence. Keep that hard work going buddy, definitely paying off 
> 
> Good job!


x2!!!

I also briefly looked through the forums on Christmas day and saw this one with a fresh post from you... man, this thread is named properly - you are the most accountable person I've seen here!

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL thx GB means alot.. i think the truth of it is im an addict..the key is just getting me addicted to the rite things man! LOL  :Smilie:

----------


## gbrice75

Same here buddy!!!

----------


## tbody66

Some have come and some have gone and some step away for a minute, but it's nice to know there are always those who will fill the shoes of those who move on!

----------


## Papiriqui

> Some have come and some have gone and some step away for a minute, but it's nice to know there are always those who will fill the shoes of those who move on!


Amen to that!! ^

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i didnt get home and to bed until 0130 and had to be up at 0545 to get in cardio.. i actually woke up on my own at 0544 before the alarm clock went off.. i got out of bad and PAP i thought of u and what u said about when u wake up u think "im up so im gonna get it done" and went and put on my clothes and went upstairs and did 40mins fasted cardio  :Smilie:  i figd id give myself a break and do 40 instead of 45 cuz it was all i was mentally willing to do considering the amt of sleep i had .. now im glad i did!

----------


## --->>405<<---

its funny sometimes when im feeling extra lazy instead of getting dressd all the way i just do my cardio in my underwear LOL like i did today  :Smilie:

----------


## tbody66

Glad to hear you did it and I know what you mean, I always feel better when I start the day the way I'm supposed to, even when I really don't want to.

----------


## Papiriqui

I am glad you did bud!! 40 instead of 45 c'mon you are slacking lol j/k bro i tip my hat to you because i would have not even set the alarm clock on that much sleep. So i give you props for waking up that early  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Funny pap.. Thx for props.. U helpd me get going like i said earlier  :Smilie:  tonite i shoukd get some decent sleep and my "crik" or pulld back muscle is about 75% better so im very happy.. Also got vitamins recommended by my TRT doc one of which is melatonin.. Interested to see if that makes me sleepy.. Never had a prob sleepn anyways..

Tbody tomorrow is legs.. My right calf is hard to walk on still.. Very very very(did i say very?yes i did) sore.. I limp  :Smilie:  until i get going good... Will let ya know how legs go of course...

----------


## Papiriqui

> Funny pap.. Thx for props.. U helpd me get going like i said earlier  tonite i shoukd get some decent sleep and my "crik" or pulld back muscle is about 75% better so im very happy.. Also got vitamins recommended by my TRT doc one of which is melatonin.. Interested to see if that makes me sleepy.. Never had a prob sleepn anyways..
> 
> Tbody tomorrow is legs.. My right calf is hard to walk on still.. Very very very(did i say very?yes i did) sore.. I limp  until i get going good... Will let ya know how legs go of course...


Hope you have a great leg workout bud, definitely has become 1 of my favorite muscles to workout!! Enjoy the sleep, i'll accompany you in the sence i took tomorrow of so i am in bed as we speak lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh pap like u i now enjoy wkn legs.. never did it until i startd this diet  :Smilie: 

woke up this am not very happy about the fact that i had to do cardio.. i did do it though.. i think it gets harder to get up the leaner i get cuz im no longer a fat butt which is/was good motivation to drag my lazy butt out of the bed!

----------


## Papiriqui

> yeh pap like u i now enjoy wkn legs.. never did it until i startd this diet 
> 
> woke up this am not very happy about the fact that i had to do cardio.. i did do it though.. i think it gets harder to get up the leaner i get cuz im no longer a fat butt which is/was good motivation to drag my lazy butt out of the bed!


To me working out and doing cardio is normal, my problem is the consistency i need with the diet. I am at the same place as you but in my case is the diet!! Cant wait for the new year already to hit it strong!

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh diet for me is not much of a prob.. i have cravings every now and again.. but i know if i have to i can eat 1 cheat a week by now which makes it easier.. plus ive been eatn this way 3 months... i think its gonna prob be harder to get these abs out than to drop the 8% bodyfat i lost in the beginning...

----------


## Papiriqui

> yeh diet for me is not much of a prob.. i have cravings every now and again.. but i know if i have to i can eat 1 cheat a week by now which makes it easier.. plus ive been eatn this way 3 months... i think its gonna prob be harder to get these abs out than to drop the 8% bodyfat i lost in the beginning...


True. I am goin to hit it super hard starting Monday!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

good old monday.. 

the greatest day known to man...monday

theres nothing a man cant accomplish...come monday!

diet,cardio,weightlifting,fixing that thing in the garage,the yard,honey do list,.... have no fear men.... we'll get it dun... come monday  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

oh yeh i almost forgot.. 

tbody another good workout man! did legs today.. the lunges thing was great and the 1leg squats also tuff.. the SLDLs werent that bad until the last set.. the hardest thing was holding the 45lb DBs in my hand for 30 reps.. that sounds kind of sad but its true.. my hands and forearms were burning like crazy!

lunges: 10 x 45lb,10 x 35lb,10 x 0lb 3 sets

SLDL:30 x 25,30 x 45, 30 x 45

1leg squat:30 x 0 3 sets

out of time and spent  :Smilie:  no calves or abs but i didnt really wanna do them either and figd i did them 2 days already...

ill try to fit in abs and calves tomorrow with shoulders.. 

was wondering if i should stick with sldl's?? they seemd to work lower back and forearms more than anything...

----------


## tbody66

If you keep the weights as close to your legs as possible during the entire range of motion it should help, and be sure to push your butt as far away from you as possible, start pushing your butt toward the back wall as you begin to lower and just keep pushing it further and further back as you lower and pause at the bottom. Give it another try and if you can't make it feel right I'll come up with something. I am planning on making videos next year of all these lifts to show proper form to everyone here. I don't know how to post them or where, but that is the plan.

----------


## --->>405<<---

will do tbody.. i did concentrate on pushing out the butt and kept the DBs pretty much touching legs all the way down.. it felt more like a stretch.. and like i said my lower back got a workout  :Smilie: 

today my legs are very sore.. i love it  :Smilie:  its pretty cool what u can do with just bodyweight and legs!

no cardio this am but at lunch shoulders..

on a side note my doc has me on 7 difft vitamins/supps one of which is melatonin.. i must say ive never had a prob sleepn but even so have noticed this melatonin knocks my butt out!!! i dont even remember falling asleep.. i usually wake up once per nite to go to the bathroom.. i havent the past 2 nite since i startd the melatonin.. and i sleep alot better!! i recommend it to yall to try it out.. i take 3mg and am asleep within the hr...

----------


## SlimmerMe

> good old monday.. 
> 
> The greatest day known to man...monday
> 
> *theres nothing a man cant accomplish...come monday!*
> 
> diet,cardio,weightlifting,fixing that thing in the garage,the yard,honey do list,.... Have no fear men.... We'll get it dun... Come monday


*happy new year to you 405!*

----------


## Back In Black

> will do tbody.. i did concentrate on pushing out the butt and kept the DBs pretty much touching legs all the way down.. it felt more like a stretch.. and like i said my lower back got a workout 
> 
> today my legs are very sore.. i love it  its pretty cool what u can do with just bodyweight and legs!
> 
> no cardio this am but at lunch shoulders..
> 
> on a side note my doc has me on 7 difft vitamins/supps one of which is melatonin.. i must say ive never had a prob sleepn but even so have noticed this melatonin knocks my butt out!!! i dont even remember falling asleep.. i usually wake up once per nite to go to the bathroom.. i havent the past 2 nite since i startd the melatonin.. and i sleep alot better!! i recommend it to yall to try it out.. i take 3mg and am asleep within the hr...


As long as you don't go to the bathroom without waking up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL !! Well my jammys were dry when i woke up SteM  :Wink:  so either i didnt or i went rite when i fell asleep and they had time to dry  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

another excellent wkout tbody.. i counted it up.. u know i did 900 reps today on shoulders tris and bis?? no wonder im so sore and didnt feel like doing abs and calves! also i had 1.5hr lunch and barely made it bak.. may have to shorten it up on reg days..

----------


## tbody66

If you perform the SLDL's correctly they will feel like a stretch, but that is working the Hamstrings like we want, so keep on keeping on!

Glad to hear that you are getting along well with the routine. Have a very Blessed and safe New Years Eve!

----------


## --->>405<<---

U2 buddy  :Smilie:  and everyone else

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well its a new year..!!

Slept in til 0900 then went to. CHurch and came home and decided to do 60 mins cardio on elliptical.. Since im on TRT now i periodically chek blood pressure and decided to chk it rite when i got off elliptical and to my surprise it was 135/64.. Now thats immediately after 60 mins cardio keepn hr at steady 150bpm... I figd itd be high.. 

 :Smilie:  now im throwin the ball for the old bluetick coonhound and about to grill some chikn.. I decided to have somewhat of a cheat today but i went with a breast (bone-in) and prob 2or3 legs and a whole sweet potAto ... I will also have some bbq fritos and maybe a pb&j sammich with milk.. Now i have only eatn 1 meal this am so i prob still can eat 1500 cals to hit my calorie total for the day.. I figd thatd offset the. CHeat somewhat plus the cardio that i hadnt plannd on doing.. 

Will chk bf before... 

SteM what do u think about all that?? That a good way to work with a cheat meal?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ok well bf came back the same as last week  :Frown: 

No surprise i havent been feeling or thinking i lookd leaner.. So this is thr end of like week 13 or 14 ... Last week i came bak the same as the week before and this week i came bak the same as last week.. Now i did have a few cheats last week but not this week..

Needless to say im a little bummed and hate to think i dieted all week and did all that cardio and lifting for nothing ... 

I aldo dont wanna jump the gun either.. But i have been anticipating this moment coming.. 

SteM what do u think i should do? Or anyone else im in need of a little assistance.. Im basically as lean as ive been able to get myself to in the past and then the body hits the brakes...

----------


## Papiriqui

> Ok well bf came back the same as last week 
> 
> No surprise i havent been feeling or thinking i lookd leaner.. So this is thr end of like week 13 or 14 ... Last week i came bak the same as the week before and this week i came bak the same as last week.. Now i did have a few cheats last week but not this week..
> 
> Needless to say im a little bummed and hate to think i dieted all week and did all that cardio and lifting for nothing ...
> 
> I aldo dont wanna jump the gun either.. But i have been anticipating this moment coming..
> 
> SteM what do u think i should do? Or anyone else im in need of a little assistance.. Im basically as lean as ive been able to get myself to in the past and then the body hits the brakes...


I think you are worrying about it to much, first you need an entire week of staying the same or perhaps 2-3 weeks to then change the diet.

Simetimes you hit a plateau for a couple days perhaps weeks and than it keeps going. Take it easy, stay true to what you are doing since it has been working so far, and you'll see it will continue to drop  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I think you are worrying about it to much,* first you need an entire week of staying the same or perhaps 2-3 weeks* to then change the diet.
> 
> Simetimes you hit a plateau for a couple days perhaps weeks and than it keeps going. Take it easy, stay true to what you are doing since it has been working so far, and you'll see it will continue to drop


thx for the encouragement pap  :Smilie:  u mustve missd where i said this is the 2nd full week at same bf%...now last week i didnt expect to have a loss cuz of christmas and cheats but this week i didnt cheat at all and still the same as 2 weeks ago.. maybe its still bleedover from christmas week as in my body still remembers the cheats from last week but if it hasnt droppd by this coming sunday i will definitely be making a change..

have been considering some sort of carb cycle.. since rite now im eatn 700g carbs per week.. i thought bout cutting all carbs from cardio only days which is 3 days/week and adding them in on lifting days ... which is about 75g carbs (not including veggie carbs which ill continue to eat as well as my cottage cheese).. so this may be what i do:

mon:chest/bis/abs/calves 200gcarbs

tue:cardio only 25g carbs(veggie/cottage cheese)

wed:back/tris/abs/calves 200g carbs

thu:cardio only 25g carbs(veggies/cott cheese)

friday:legs 200g carbs

sat:shoulders/tris/bis 25g carbs(veggies/cott cheese)

sun:cardio only 25g carbs(veggies/cott cheese)

would like to have opinions on this please.. ill still be getting 700g carbs per week itll just be centered around lifting days.. since i lift at noon i figd id split carbs on those days meal 1,2( pre WO) , &3( PWO) 

notsure if i should adjust protein on low carb days but figd id just leave it at 300g that way my total calories for the week will remain the same...

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok i ran the exact numbers and this is what i came up with:

mon:high
tue:low
wed:high
thu:low
fri:high
sat:low
sun:moderate

so on mon,wed,fri (chest,back,leg days respectively) total daily macros: 2428cal/313P/168C/53F 

tue,thu,sat(cardio,cardio,shoulders respectively) total daily macros:1830cal/297P/34C/48F 

sun :Embarrassment: ff or cardio only total daily macros:2129cal/305P/101C/51F 

heres diet mon/wed/fri : 

(0700)meal1:1egg,5whites,3ozshrimp,1/2Coats,2tbs sugar free jam

(1030)meal2:5oz chk breast,8oz yam,2C broc

NOON LIFT

(1300)meal3 PWO: 2scoops whey,1/2C oats

(1430)meal4:6 oz 96%fat free grnd beef,2C broc

(1800)meal5: 2 cans tuna,10 spears asparagus

(2230)meal6:5oz chikn,1C 2% cott cheese,2 tbs nat PB

low carb days same as above except remove oats from meal 1 & 3 and remove yam from meal 2

moderate carb day same as above except reduce oats from 1/2C to 1/4C meals 1 & 3 and reduce yam from 8oz to 4oz

thx  :Smilie:

----------


## SlimmerMe

I was waiting to read the blue tick hound grabbing your grilled grubb.....

----------


## Back In Black

Hello mate, happy new year!

I agree with Pap that you should give it another week or 2. You can discount Xmas week because of the cheats so it's really only 1 week you've been the same. Some times I can go 3 weeks without losing then, all of a sudden, I'm down alot in 1 week despite doing nothing different.

In all honesty, I wouldn't be factoring in a cheat meal if you are concerned that you haven't lost for a week or 2.

Did you do less cardio last week?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Hello mate, happy new year!
> 
> I agree with Pap that you should give it another week or 2. You can discount Xmas week because of the cheats so it's really only 1 week you've been the same. Some times I can go 3 weeks without losing then, all of a sudden, I'm down alot in 1 week despite doing nothing different.
> 
> In all honesty, *I wouldn't be factoring in a cheat meal* if you are concerned that you haven't lost for a week or 2.
> 
> Did you do less cardio last week?


Hey mate glad to see u  :Smilie:  happy new yr 2 u 2 ...

I did cardio i think 5x last week .. Maybe 4 but i think 5...

As far as the cheat i already went all day only eatn 1 meal and had it ready to go.. I think i was close to total cals for the day.. Had 1 breast and 2 legs with wing sauce a salad with ranch and a piece of banana bread and 1 bite of a snickers and some bba fritos LOL.. Sounds like alot but didnt seem like it  :Smilie: 

Other than that all i had for the day was brkfast and cott cheese... 

In the past even with a cheat i still lost.. And last week i didnt cheat and didnt lose.. I hear what ur sayn though.. If u recall in the beginning i told u i could usually get to a point and then the fatloss stoppd.. I think i may be getn there.. I hoPe im wrong..

Will stay on diet this week the same and see how i do .. Like u said..

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I was waiting to read the blue tick hound grabbing your grilled grubb.....


LOL slim.. He tried like he always tries  :Smilie:  i dont give him any human food ... Hes a good old dawg

----------


## tbody66

sounds like you managed the damage just fine. I'm stoked about seeing what you accomplish before the "re-union", You'll want to be your best for that!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Yeh i suppose tbody but im over the holidays and wanna keep droppn fat again.. Like i said before im about as low as ive ever been and that makes me concernd im gonna plateau.. Cuz i always have in the past.. Fat drops great for 3 months then stops.. Thats BS!!!!!!  :Smilie:

----------


## tbody66

alot of times it's just a matter of plowing ahead even when you don't think you are making progress, then when you finally bust through that other side all of the momentum you were building up when you didn't think it was working launches you to a whole other level!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Sounds nice tbody.. Im hoping i get to experience that...  :Smilie: 

I think part of it is i spent so much time not making progress in the past and like i said i always seem to stop droppn fat about where i am now which is why ive NEVER HAD A 6 pack... And dang it i want one!

----------


## --->>405<<---

hey guys i told yall about takn my shirt off in my gym and how i liked the lighting and today i had a chance to take a couple pics cuz no one was in there so i thought id post them.. there is actually better lighting than the pics i got today it just may take a little while for me to find it  :Smilie:  in any event i thought id share them with yall...as u can see i wasnt kidding about the equipment LOL  :Smilie:  also i included a back shot  :Smilie:  yay iphone!!

----------


## tbody66

I like the pics, what's the deal with the difference in shape of the biceps though? The left one is flat and the right one has a good peak? Is there a size difference?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Yeh the one on the left(actually my right) i tore the bicep tendon and had surgery and it is bigger than the left.. However its also weaker... 

Thx for pointing it out  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well i got up at 0430 and did my fasted 45 min cardio.. Went and got into bed at 2200 last nite which i think made it easier.. No more workouts today  :Smilie:

----------


## tbody66

> Yeh the one on the left(actually my right) i tore the bicep tendon and had surgery and it is bigger than the left.. However its also weaker... 
> 
> Thx for pointing it out


Hey, stick with what you're good at! For me, it's pointing out the obvious.

----------


## --->>405<<---

oh yeh tbody i forgot to tell u i went up yesterday on chest from the 60lb dbs to the 70lb dbs...

incl DB: 12 x 45. 12 x 65, 12 x 70, 17 x 70
flat DB: 12 x 70, 12 x 70, 12 x 70, 17 x 70
dec DB: 12 x 70, 12 x 70, 12 x 70, 14 x 70

also did more reps on all biceps sets some with more weight and went up on abs and calves in reps...

u think i need to go up to 75lb dbs next week based on my 4th sets to failure???

----------


## Papiriqui

Dammmmmn you are looking good guy!! I definitely have to get my act together and see if i beat you in this race because you are kicking my behind by like 1000 miles......

----------


## tbody66

> oh yeh tbody i forgot to tell u i went up yesterday on chest from the 60lb dbs to the 70lb dbs...
> 
> incl DB: 12 x 45. 12 x 65, 12 x 70, 17 x 70
> flat DB: 12 x 70, 12 x 70, 12 x 70, 17 x 70
> dec DB: 12 x 70, 12 x 70, 12 x 70, 14 x 70
> 
> also did more reps on all biceps sets some with more weight and went up on abs and calves in reps...
> 
> u think i need to go up to 75lb dbs next week based on my 4th sets to failure???


I agree there man/beast!




> Dammmmmn you are looking good guy!! I definitely have to get my act together and see if i beat you in this race because you are kicking my behind by like 1000 miles......


So do it!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I agree there man/beast!
> 
> 
> 
> *So do it!*


^^x2 PAP lets step it up my man!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well days dun.. Feel luke a bum on non workout days .. But not enuff of one to come home Nd do a 2nd cardio session LOL.. Tomorrow:back/tris/abs/calves... Im really digging the fact that i can do 4 sets of unassisted pullups.. Ive never been able to do 12 before .. I like doing them for back i just never could before  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Mate, can you weigh yourself first thing and let me know what your weight is compared to the last time you did it.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Mate, can you weigh yourself first thing and let me know what your weight is compared to the last time you did it.


yeh 193lbs or 87.54kg  :Smilie: 

why do u ask?

----------


## --->>405<<---

SteM i think ive been at 193 for like a month...

----------


## Back In Black

Mate, I'm gonna suggest 2 things:-

1. Drop your fats down to 45g per day

2. Start alternating your fasted cardio between HIIT and LIC. You know HIIT and how to do it. For LIC keep your heart rate between 125-130bpm.

Let's see if that doesn't kick start something.

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok sounds like a plan.. so with the HIIT ill be doing it am fasted 5 min warmup 20 min interval 5 min cooldown

LIC ill do 60 mins (as long as i can drag my lazy butt outta bed 15 mins early  :Smilie: )

i suppose i can cut my nat PB out before bed which will put my fat from 55 to like 41 (ill figure it up exactly)

----------


## RaginCajun

just catching up with your thread, looking good. with regards to your workout, have you switched it up in a while? sometimes, switching up your routine for a few weeks could possibly help?

----------


## --->>405<<---

also stem should i up my protein to compensate for the 180 calories or however many it is???????????

----------


## Back In Black

> ok sounds like a plan.. so with the HIIT ill be doing it am fasted 5 min warmup 20 min interval 5 min cooldown *Do 30 mins intervals if you can. If not, spend the extra 10 mins at a steady pace. Breakfast asap after this type of training.*
> 
> LIC ill do 60 mins (as long as i can drag my lazy butt outta bed 15 mins early ) *Good man, this needs to be a 40 minute minimum and 60 minute maximum really*
> 
> i suppose i can cut my nat PB out before bed which will put my fat from 55 to like 41 (ill figure it up exactly)


Just reduce the amount of PB, I know you look forward to it.

----------


## tbody66

small anc consistent changes make the most difference, just not always the quickest!

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok SteM 5 minute warmup (which for me is 150 BPM, i only know one speed at moderate  :Wink: ) 30 mins intervals, 5 min(or so) cooldown

i think my biggest challenge is gonna be the mental one i anticipate having with LIC cuz i know im not gonna "feel" like im accomplishing anything at 125-130bpm  :Smilie: 

at nite ill have 16g PB instead of 32... and ive discontinued balsamic vinegar on my broccoli (which i never figd into my macros)

----------


## Back In Black

LIC is much easier on a treadmill, get the right pace and listen to your tunes or watch TV and catch up on the news. IO know you you don't have a treadmill, just saying. I have done LIC on an eliptical though, can you set a programme to keep you at a certain heart rate? Means you'll be able to fucus on something else other than the boring monotony? Maybe read a book?

----------


## --->>405<<---

oh yeh stem no prob on getn the hr rite ill just reduce the tension and prob reduce rpm's as well.. now to chek HR i put index finger on neck and time it for 30 secs.. based on my calculations i should be between 62-65 ?? until now i usually am at 75 for 30 secs so it shouldnt be too tuff... ive done it before ... 

and actuallly im a big Le Tour de France guy(believe it or not) and i have the entire 2011 TDF recorded on my dvr and thats what i watch every morning while i do my cardio.. its excellent for that! go Andy Schleck and Mark Cavendish!! LOL

also did u think the pics i posted 2 days ago gave u a good idea where i am on bf%? cuz if not i took a few more today with less clothes on.. although not a desirable thought for u im sure if u think itd help to see where i am ill post them.. i was inspired by Tbody  :Wink:  although im not wearing tidy whiteys ...got a couple back shots couple front shots and 1 side shot.. thought it may help to figure out where i am..?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> small anc consistent changes make the most difference, just not always the quickest!


TBody today i did back/tri/ab/calves andmanaged to go up on quite a few exercises!

CHINS:12,12,12,7 UP FROM 12,11,10,7 maybe soon ill be able to do 4 sets x 12 reps..ive always sucked on chins ..like couldnt do more than 3 sucked  :Smilie:  *NEVER 12 LET ALONE 3 SETS OF 12*

CLOSE GRIP bench: 15 x 135,12 x 155, 12 x 166, 12 x 166

DB rows(hip): 12 x 40 x 3: 20 x 40 (failure set)

DB rows(chest):12 x 40 x 3: 20 x 40(failure set) maybe go up to 45s next week?

calves i improved on but abs i got 3 sets x 50 reps... 

enjoying the workout man thx again! im looking forward to the strength one ur gonna give me in a month or so that way ill have 3 difft wkout routines to really mix it up!

----------


## SlimmerMe

405: Here is some great info (before you joined up I believe) from Phate in my log on page 18. 

I know that Papi had the link in his thread awhile back in his thread but just in case you have not read it, when you have a moment you might want to absorb what all he says. Start reading when Phate chimes in. Hope you enjoy. Sharing this with you since we ALL seem to want to take it to another level in 2012.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...8#.TwSfJRw0i6Y

----------


## Back In Black

> oh yeh stem no prob on getn the hr rite ill just reduce the tension and prob reduce rpm's as well.. now to chek HR i put index finger on neck and time it for 30 secs.. based on my calculations i should be between 62-65 ?? until now i usually am at 75 for 30 secs so it shouldnt be too tuff... ive done it before ... 
> 
> and actuallly im a big Le Tour de France guy(believe it or not) and i have the entire 2011 TDF recorded on my dvr and thats what i watch every morning while i do my cardio.. its excellent for that! go Andy Schleck and Mark Cavendish!! LOL
> 
> also did u think the pics i posted 2 days ago gave u a good idea where i am on bf%? cuz if not i took a few more today with less clothes on.. although not a desirable thought for u im sure if u think itd help to see where i am ill post them.. i was inspired by Tbody  although im not wearing tidy whiteys ...got a couple back shots couple front shots and 1 side shot.. thought it may help to figure out where i am..?


Not sure I understand what you mean about the heart rate, sorry?

Cavendish is a legend already, he just won the UK Sports Personality of the Year, that's usually reserved for boxers, F1 drivers, football players etc

Pics the other day give a better idea but I'd like to see the wheels for sure!

----------


## --->>405<<---

as u know i do all my cardio on the elliptical... with HR at 150-156 BPM i have the resistance on said elliptical set at 4 and i average 58 RPM's for 45 minutes which is around 2600 reps over the 45 minute time period.. 

when i switch to LIT ill drop resistance down to 3 and drop down to say 53 RPM'S and between the lighter resistance and slightly slower pace see where that puts my HR.. if its still too high ill drop to say 49 RPM'S and so on until i find where i maintain 125-130 BPM HR  :Smilie: 

clear it up?  :Wink: 

and yes Cavendish is my def favorite over Schleck for sure.. the MANX MISSILE is def the man!  :Smilie:  im planning on going to the 2013 TDF .. will hope to catch a couple mountain stages as well as be in paris for the final stage... very expensive trip though.. i wanna do a riding tour with wife and daughter and for the 3 of us its like $12,000.00

thats cool he won the UK SPORTS PERSONALITY.. ill have to chek that out.. 

will post couple pics and get ur opinion on bf.. let me say before hand i felt a little gay with what im wearing  :Smilie:  and let me also say im NOT GAY IM NOT!!! LOL

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok now the reason i wanna post these is to get opinions on bf% as well as SteM for u to see if u think im lean enuff to warrant reducing my cardio to LIT and HIIT.. thx  :Smilie: 

id also like to add that the leg shots didnt come out as well as id have hoped but at least u kind of get an idea  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well SteM i have some good news.. U were rite  :Smilie:  now ive been weighing 193-195lbs for a month now... Well yesterday at the gym i got on the scale(which i always do) and there my weight has stayed between 199.5 and 203 for about a month as well( i weigh more there but i go by consistency not weight plus i have clothes on) .. Anyways well yesterday i weighed myself and it said 197... Which is about 3 lbs less than ive ever weighed on there... So when i got up this am and got on tbe scale at home :190.3 

So i droppd 3 lbs all of a sudden .. Needless to say im happy about that and i also look leaner in the mirror as well  :Smilie:  so after a month of 193-195 now i got 190... Maybe the change-up in lifting routine has triggered something.. Def lookn forward to sunday and bf chek  :Smilie: 

Strength is up on lifts/reps so i dont think ive lost any LBM.. 

Now time for cardio  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well 30 min intervals dun... Now time for breakfast.  :Smilie:

----------


## Papiriqui

Remember also that changing the routine in lifting could make you gain some LBM, as well as the test helps in that area, IMHO if you look leaner every week but the scale doesn't change, go by the mirror, like i said it could be you are gaining LBM and you would stay at the same weight while burning that fat.

----------


## Back In Black

> Well SteM i have some good news.. U were rite  now ive been weighing 193-195lbs for a month now... Well yesterday at the gym i got on the scale(which i always do) and there my weight has stayed between 199.5 and 203 for about a month as well( i weigh more there but i go by consistency not weight plus i have clothes on) .. Anyways well yesterday i weighed myself and it said 197... Which is about 3 lbs less than ive ever weighed on there... So when i got up this am and got on tbe scale at home :190.3 
> 
> So i droppd 3 lbs all of a sudden .. Needless to say im happy about that and i also look leaner in the mirror as well  so after a month of 193-195 now i got 190... Maybe the change-up in lifting routine has triggered something.. Def lookn forward to sunday and bf chek 
> 
> Strength is up on lifts/reps so i dont think ive lost any LBM.. 
> 
> Now time for cardio


Yeah, funny isn't it; all of a sudden - BAM and it disappears overnight. Literally!

Mate go with the alternate HIIT/LIC for the next 2 weeks as well as the end of this week. We'll probably take you down to LIC from then on, dependant on where you are at that time.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Will do  :Smilie:  u got a guess on bf% ??

----------


## Back In Black

Don't think your wife is too far off, post them in the members pictures section, you'll get a few replies and you can take the average. You are quite lean in some places and not so in others. 

May need to get you to 10% for the abs to show. And a wax too!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Don't think your wife is too far off, post them in the members pictures section, you'll get a few replies and you can take the average. You are quite lean in some places and not so in others. 
> 
> May need to get you to 10% for the abs to show. And a wax too!


LOL on the wax.. Def for summer  :Smilie: will do on member pics .. I have some stubborn areas.. Figd id be the 10% guy to have abs.. Wouldnt be any other way for me  :Smilie:  prob part of why i never had then.. Even at 21 and 165lbs!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

^^^ hate those stubborn spots...but looks like you doing well and making progress towards your goal!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx girl yeh makn progress  :Smilie:  stubborn spots suck! Id even trade my stubbron spots for someone elses just for a change LOL

----------


## Papiriqui

Baby steps bud!! They will go away eventually!! Just look back at the first picture you took and you will see how far you've come, some other areas will look leaner first but the stubborn areas are not to far behind in the race  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh pap ur def rite  :Smilie:  i have come a long way...

well i did my first LIC cardio today.. think i got my HR pace figd out.. i tell u this LIC deal is nice.. basically almost like laying on the couch watching tv for 45 minutes :Smilie:  maybe not exactly but close in comparison to moderate and HIIT..

----------


## tbody66

> TBody today i did back/tri/ab/calves andmanaged to go up on quite a few exercises!
> 
> CHINS:12,12,12,7 UP FROM 12,11,10,7 maybe soon ill be able to do 4 sets x 12 reps..ive always sucked on chins ..like couldnt do more than 3 sucked  *NEVER 12 LET ALONE 3 SETS OF 12*
> 
> CLOSE GRIP bench: 15 x 135,12 x 155, 12 x 166, 12 x 166
> 
> DB rows(hip): 12 x 40 x 3: 20 x 40 (failure set)
> 
> DB rows(chest):12 x 40 x 3: 20 x 40(failure set) maybe go up to 45s next week?
> ...


I am so stoked to hear this, I expected it to be like this mind you, but still good to hear.




> Don't think your wife is too far off, post them in the members pictures section, you'll get a few replies and you can take the average. You are quite lean in some places and not so in others. 
> 
> May need to get you to 10% for the abs to show. And a wax too!


Yeah 13-14% in some Areas 16% in others, IMO. Another vote for body-hair removal!




> LOL on the wax.. Def for summer will do on member pics .. I have some stubborn areas.. Figd id be the 10% guy to have abs.. Wouldnt be any other way for me  prob part of why i never had then.. Even at 21 and 165lbs!


Your back, primarily width, and shoulders, primarily traps and tops, will need the most focus on our next routine to catch them up with your arms and even your look out. I personally don't like stubborn spots, but I ain't tradin', it took me this long to get used to them and how to overcome them, I sure don't want to start all over in un-familiar territory.

----------


## --->>405<<---

All sounds good.. Yeh never really got into back.. Prob cuz i couldnt see it in the mirror LOL.. im glad ur able to pinpoint my lagging areas.. Not someth im good at  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Oh yeh i did legs today.. Whooo!!! Is all i can say.. Still shaking  :Wink:  think it may be awhile (if ever) before i can include abs and calves in on leg day.. Those split lunges 3sets x 30 and 3 sets x 30 one leg squats do me in dude!!! I did complete all sets/reps ...

----------


## tbody66

LEG DAY!!!! Thank you Jesus!

----------


## Papiriqui

Yeah baby LEGGGGGGS!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well SteM ive encountered a slight obstacle  :Smilie: 

waking up at 0430 to the thought of HIIT caused me to stay in bed this am.. i remember having the thought "if i had to do LIC id get up but since its HIIT i think ill just skip it today" .. funny huh?? 

shoulders at lunch...

----------


## Papiriqui

> well SteM ive encountered a slight obstacle 
> 
> waking up at 0430 to the thought of HIIT caused me to stay in bed this am.. i remember having the thought "if i had to do LIC id get up but since its HIIT i think ill just skip it today" .. funny huh??
> 
> shoulders at lunch...


Hey think of what i told you again!! Once you already interupted your sleep by waking up, wake up!!! Get up from bed and hit it buddy!!

----------


## tbody66

> well SteM ive encountered a slight obstacle 
> 
> waking up at 0430 to the thought of HIIT caused me to stay in bed this am.. i remember having the thought "if i had to do LIC id get up but since its HIIT i think ill just skip it today" .. funny huh?? 
> 
> shoulders at lunch...


Maybe this won't make sense to you, but while my wife and I were driving to dinner last night (we live in a really small town, so date night means at least a 30 minute drive one-way) the preacher was talking about getting in shape and how when he wakes up to go running there are a lot of times that he doesn't feel like doing it and just thinks he can't, one day recently he was reminded of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus didn't feel like going to the cross, but he wanted to honor the Father so he went anyway. Now obviously there is no way we can relate our exercise to this moment on a "value of importance" scale, but the point was that if we aren't disciplined in little things how will we be disciplined in major things? We all play on Game Day how we practice throughout the week, some are lucky enough for their talent to squeak them out a win when the opponent is weak, but there is a sign that the Head Strength coach at Oklahoma has posted that reads "Hard Work beats Talent when Talent doesn't Work Hard"

----------


## --->>405<<---

funny and noted... leave it to tbody everybody  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Dude! Man, even if you got up and did LIC you'd still be 400cals or so lighter! As the boys say, jsut get up and do it. SOmetimes I hit snooze and end up getting up 10 mins later for cardio and that means I only get 35 mins and I kick myself for not doing 45 but I always get up.

Mate, that's the first time in several months so, just get back on th ehorse (eliptical) and let's get it on. Only 8lbs to go before your first long term goal weight!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

I hadn't realized you were ONLY 8 lbs away from a milestone. I don't know how much you lost neither, but I am still struggling with my last 5...so I am interested in you getting to your goal so that you can tell me how you did it!!!!!

----------


## tbody66

Yeah, dude, just do it!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Yeh i know im a sorry lazy butt!!  :Wink:  

Ill be back on it tomorrow for sure... I tell u this fat i got on me now is much harder to lose than in the beginning.. Think im experiencing some estrogen sides as well .. Had bloodwork dun yest so i hope to find out next week.. Prob need an AI... kinda tired and have this tinnitus thing.. But i hit it hard today at the gym .. 

Tbody i could only get 3 supersets out of 4 for my 2nd and 3rd set of exercises and was still late bak to work and left early ... So i did 10 supersets instead of 12... Still thats 30 sets total and 750 reps... Gonna grill chkn breast tonite .. Waiting on wife to get home to chk bf%

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I hadn't realized you were ONLY 8 lbs away from a milestone. I don't know how much you lost neither, but I am still struggling with my last 5...so I am interested in you getting to your goal so that you can tell me how you did it!!!!!


Thx girl.. Startd at 213 .. Down to 190 .. Goal is more sub 12% but also 185 lbs.. Thx for stopping by  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well im back on track!! The last 2 or 3 bf measurements have aLl been the same : 12.72%

Tonites bf% came back at:11.69% yay!!!  :Smilie: 

Now i wish it was really 100% accurate but ill take it! Esp considering when i started i measured 21.87% and my goal then was to get sub 12%... so technically basEd on my original goal i have accomplished it today!! Now over the last 3 months i amended my goal of sub12% to "truly sub12%" because thru experience have realized my wifes bf% ability is prob not perfect.. But based on my perception when i set the goal i indeed accomplished it today.. Which i think Was 14 weeks ago.. So in 14 weeks i have droppd 10% bodyfat(based on the measurements of my wife :Smilie: )... 

Now to pursue the amended goal of truly sub 12%  :Smilie:  i tell u though just to see 11.69% on the paper after seeing 21.87% when i started is really cool.. All my mm measurements are 15mm or below.. I remember when i started having a 33mm and a bunch of 20's... Now the old bellybutton is the largest(15mm).. It was the largest then too at like 33mm.. I think the one thats below shoulderblade was also in the 30's...

Enuff of my rambling.. Tomorrow:cardio yayyyyy!!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well im happy to report i got up andndid my fasted HIIT this am.. Thats pretty much it  :Smilie:  nuttin left to do today ..

----------


## Papiriqui

> Well im happy to report i got up andndid my fasted HIIT this am.. Thats pretty much it  nuttin left to do today ..


Hood job buddy!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well got my 45 min fasted LIC dun this am.. lunch:chest/bi/abs/calves

weight bak to good ole 193lbs  :Smilie:  prob all the soy sauce i ate yesterday

----------


## Papiriqui

> well got my 45 min fasted LIC dun this am.. lunch:chest/bi/abs/calves
> 
> weight bak to good ole 193lbs  prob all the soy sauce i ate yesterday


^^ lol

----------


## tbody66

Oh sure, blame the sodium!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well tbody to this point ive been eatn broccoli cold and plain and thought yesterday.. hey stir fry it in some soy sauce with some minced garlic.. man it was alot better that way.. i did the same thing with chk breast and burger patties.. put some water in with the meat and as it cookd down made a kind of sauce/gravy... think i found myself a new way to eat chikn and broc  :Smilie:  the water weight i can always drop just by cutting out the sodium...

----------


## tbody66

Dude, you don't need to explain to me I am a sodium addict and I have no problem with that!

----------


## --->>405<<---

:Smilie:  not so much explaining as expressing happiness for my discovery: i dont have to eat boring plain cold broccoli!!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

this is prob a stupid question but i just noticed my name changed as well as i have a title.. where did that come from??  :Smilie: 

id also like to add thats one of my favorite colors  :Wink:

----------


## Papiriqui

> this is prob a stupid question but i just noticed my name changed as well as i have a title.. where did that come from?? 
> 
> id also like to add thats one of my favorite colors


I think that comes with amount of posts, kind of separating people in levels.

----------


## --->>405<<---

gotcha..well it happened on an odd number cuz not at 1000... or 1050...

----------


## --->>405<<---

well days dun dude  :Smilie:

----------


## tbody66

Another one in the books. Blender broccoli, along with other boring micro-nutrieint rich foods, chugged as fast as you can swallow works for me!

----------


## SlimmerMe

> this is prob a stupid question but i just noticed my name changed as well as i have a title.. where did that come from?? 
> 
> id also like to add thats one of my favorite colors


comes from the color fairies.....

----------


## --->>405<<---

> comes from the color fairies.....


 :Smilie:  the picked a great color .. But i guess they would know wouldnt they  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well i got up this am and did my fasted HIIT.. now im at doc ofc waiting for them to read MRI results on my right knee.. Prob surgery ... I tell u wats funny(not) .. I prob need MRI on left shoulder and surgery on it as well.. And i just had surgery on right shoulder last march!

----------


## Papiriqui

WOW, well i hope is all good news !!!! Good luck bud!

----------


## tbody66

sorry to hear about the potential surgeries. And did slimmer say Papi is coloring your name???

----------


## Papiriqui

> sorry to hear about the potential surgeries. And did slimmer say Papi is coloring your name???


What!!? Lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

Pap the Fairy.. Has a nice ring to it  :Smilie: 

Thx tbody no biggie.. My knee is manageable rite now.. Doc said i have 2 choices:

1.do nothing and have to get totAl knee repla***ent in 10 or 20 yrs...(and prob have probs in between)

2.have surgery and not be able to walk or drive for 4 weeks and not be able to do cardio for 4-6 months!! So u see my dilemma... The work i typically do requires me to either drive or walk.. Not necessarily both but definitely one! I coukd train for a desk job to get me thru..

I think im gonna ride it out a spell longer and give it some good thought.. Maybe get a 2nd opinion..

----------


## tbody66

Just call on me, brother, when you need a friend, we all need somebody to lean on!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Just call on me, brother, when you need a friend, we all need somebody to lean on!


Thx man :Smilie:  will do .. My condition isnt as bad as it sounds.. I can walk and run and do elliptical and squats and all that stuff no prob rite now.. Occasionally my knee bothers me but its not debilitating.. Ive been dealn with it for 6 yrs.. Im gonna at least get bf where i want it first!! Dang it  :Smilie:

----------


## RaginCajun

damn man, thats a bummer. i am sure that i will be that way in about 10 years. do what you feel is right for you bud!

----------


## RaginCajun

> Just call on me, brother, when you need a friend, we all need *somebody to lean on*!


now i have this song stuck in my head!

----------


## tbody66

It could be worse!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i had to be at work at 0600 today so no cardio this am.. there was no way in heck i was getn up at 0330 to do it  :Wink:  ill prob do it when i get home..at lunch today:back and tris...

the none good thing about having to be at work so early is i get off at 1630..which is early for me..

----------


## Papiriqui

> well i had to be at work at 0600 today so no cardio this am.. there was no way in heck i was getn up at 0330 to do it  ill prob do it when i get home..at lunch today:back and tris...
> 
> the none good thing about having to be at work so early is i get off at 1630..which is early for me..


Good deal. Get it done whether morning or afternoon  :Wink:

----------


## tbody66

Hit that back and tri workout like you want it, like you want to be a freak, even without all the body hair.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Hit that back and tri workout like you want it, like you want to be a freak, even without all the body hair.


LOL.. wat is it with this site and my bodyhair?? Lol

----------


## Papiriqui

The problem is our body T is alergic to hairs lol

----------


## SlimmerMe

check this out from Fireguy.
post 19

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...23#post5859723

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx slim  :Smilie:

----------


## tbody66

I didn't see anything in that post about body hair????

----------


## Papiriqui

*Blackened Tilapia ingredients:*

3 tablespoons of paprika powder 
1 tablespoon of salt 
1 tablespoon of onion powder 
1 teaspoon of ground white pepper 
1 teaspoon of ground black pepper 
1 teaspoon of cayenne pepper
1 teaspoon of dried thyme 
1 teaspoon of dried oregano 
1⁄2 teaspoon of celery seed 
1 pinch of garlic powder 

Now keep in mind i added a 2 tsp of whatever says 1 tsp including garlic, but this is pretty bad ass. I love my tilapia that way, as we speak i am cooking mine....

----------


## --->>405<<---

^ ^^^ r u sayn that in the way u make urs instead of including 1tsp everywhere u told me to put 1 tsp u actually use 2tsp???

----------


## tbody66

I made a video today of me squatting and posted it on youtube, go to my thread and check out the link. It's soooooooooooo cool.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I made a video today of me squatting and posted it on youtube, go to my thread and check out the link. It's soooooooooooo cool.


Yeh tbody i did man good work! i thought u coulkd get one on there i just have never researched how  :Smilie: 

yall would be proud of me this am.. i woke up and went back to sleep and then woke up again at the last minute, very groggy, and marched upstairs and got on the elliptical for 2 minutes to get the blood going and then did 12 sets of HIIT for a total of 26 minutes.. and u know what? i sure didf feel alot better when i was dun  :Wink:

----------


## tbody66

I am proud of you!

----------


## Papiriqui

Proud of you buddy!!! Yes i went from 1 tsp to 2 tsp except for salt, that i left the same!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ok good deal  :Smilie:  will be makn some this weekend ..

----------


## Papiriqui

> Ok good deal  will be makn some this weekend ..


I would advise you to make it the way it is in the recipe and try it out, you can always add more stuff you know  :Wink:  either way it's awesome!!

----------


## Back In Black

> Yeh tbody i did man good work! i thought u coulkd get one on there i just have never researched how 
> 
> yall would be proud of me this am.. i woke up and went back to sleep and then woke up again at the last minute, very groggy, and marched upstairs and got on the elliptical for 2 minutes to get the blood going and then did 12 sets of HIIT for a total of 26 minutes.. and u know what? i sure didf feel alot better when i was dun


Man, I woke and went back to sleep too, only managed 33 mins cardio. Good news you did HIIT, well done mate.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Man, I woke and went back to sleep too, only managed 33 mins cardio. Good news you did HIIT, well done mate.


Thx SteM  :Smilie:  did u see the thread slim was passing around from fireguy about HIIT vs LIT? curious as to ur thoughts on it.. 

If not im pretty sure its at the bottom of my page 24  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I didn't see anything in that post about body hair????


A regular old comedian LOL ...

----------


## Back In Black

> Thx SteM  did u see the thread slim was passing around from fireguy about HIIT vs LIT? curious as to ur thoughts on it.. 
> 
> If not im pretty sure its at the bottom of my page 24


Yeah, I saw it. Firmly believe you can get to 10% without cardio but it will take a much longer time. I believe in both LIC and HIIT .But it depends on the situation. I wouldn't do LIC at any time other than fasted. Unless it was post heavy workout/cardio. Not sure if the study was fasted LIC or not. And I wouldn't really do LIC with bf above 15%, even fasted. Unless, there are fitness/injury issues. For some, it's the only cardio they'll get out of bed for and,as something is better than nothing, that would have to do.

On a cut I do fasted LIC and PWO HIIT or HIIT as a standalone after at least one meal. When maintaining or bulking/not rerally caring, I just do HIIT. HAs to fit your goals and lifestyle ultimately.

----------


## --->>405<<---

also stem id like to note my trt doc is now wanting to put me on armour thyroid to get it "optimal" which he says its not.. not hypothyroid just not optimal.. maybe this will assist in my progress...

i like the HIIT in the sense it feels like im doing more and it takes less time... 

i like the LIC cuz its easy  :Smilie: i think mixing it up like u have me doing is a good thing..

to this point ive really done NO HIIT to speak of so ill be interested to see what itll contribute..

----------


## tbody66

Thanks for keeping us posted, and for keeping on keeping on.

----------


## Papiriqui

No check in from 405!? Huummm something is off here lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

> No check in from 405!? Huummm something is off here lol


yeh ive been a little busy with other posts as well as mine in the HRT forum..trying to get this thing dialed in.. i did drag my butt out of bed a little late again today and do 30 mins HIIT... lunch: LEGS..oh yeh.. also carb loading today  :Smilie:  figd leg day would be a good day for that...

----------


## SlimmerMe

> Thx SteM  did u see the thread slim was passing around from fireguy about HIIT vs LIT? curious as to ur thoughts on it.. 
> 
> If not im pretty sure its at the bottom of my page 24


thanks for asking Stem this as I was about to myself....




> Yeah, I saw it. Firmly believe you can get to 10% without cardio but it will take a much longer time. *I believe in both LIC and HIIT* .But it depends on the situation. I wouldn't do LIC at any time other than fasted. Unless it was post heavy workout/cardio. Not sure if the study was fasted LIC or not. And I wouldn't really do LIC with bf above 15%, even fasted. Unless, there are fitness/injury issues. *For some, it's the only cardio they'll get out of bed for* and,as something is better than nothing, that would have to do.
> 
> On a cut I do fasted LIC and PWO HIIT or HIIT as a standalone after at least one meal. When maintaining or bulking/not rerally caring, I just do HIIT. HAs to *fit your goals and lifestyle* ultimately.


thanks for this since curious as to your take and I will add that I think fasted kinda signals to continue and stay on course for the rest of the day which is one reason I highly recommend it.

----------


## Papiriqui

> yeh ive been a little busy with other posts as well as mine in the HRT forum..trying to get this thing dialed in.. i did drag my butt out of bed a little late again today and do 30 mins HIIT... lunch: LEGS..oh yeh.. also carb loading today  figd leg day would be a good day for that...


Just wondering since you are always posting early in the morning and stuff, kinda missed ya bud!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

no prob slim  :Smilie:  we think alike  :Wink: 

LOL ..pap well im here just not posting in my thread alot this am ... just got thru with legs.. pap i dont know if uve tried the split leg lunges with DBs tbodys got me doing or the 1 leg squats but they kick my butt man..

lunges: 1. 20 x 35lb DB each hand, 20 x 0 weight
2. 20 x 45lb DB each hand, 10 x 0 weight
3. 20 x 45lb DB each hand, 10 x 0 weight

DBSLDL:
1. 30 x 35lb db each hand
2.30 x 45lb db each hand
3. 30 x 45lb db each hand (my hands get really tired and forearms burn doing this like crazy)

1 Leg Squat:
1. 30 x 0 weight(each leg) x 3 sets

and thats it and i am glad  :Smilie: 

id like to note the sldl db is ok ... burns more in my lower back on the last 15 reps of set 2 and set 3 and my forearms hurt more than anything.. it doesnt feel like a leg workout at all...

----------


## Papiriqui

No T has me on something else, i tried the single leg squats on smith machine once with 50 lbs and it was killer guy, i hope when the 6 weeks are due he does not put me on that lol

----------


## Back In Black

> thanks for this since curious as to your take and I will add that I think fasted kinda signals to continue and stay on course for the rest of the day which is one reason I highly recommend it.


It's definitely a mental thing. Though some folk just feel more righteous and some use it as an excuse to have a cheat later that day. For you (and me) you're right, it sets a course for the rest of the day. There's certainly no EPOC involved with LIC and even after HIIT it's arguable how long that lasts.

Still, cardio means almost diddly squat if your diet is out of whack. Combine them both well and you are onto a winner!!!

----------


## Papiriqui

> It's definitely a mental thing. Though some folk just feel more righteous and some use it as an excuse to have a cheat later that day. For you (and me) you're right, it sets a course for the rest of the day. There's certainly no EPOC involved with LIC and even after HIIT it's arguable how long that lasts.
> 
> Still, cardio means almost diddly squat if your diet is out of whack. Combine them both well and you are onto a winner!!!


Yeah ive done cardio and weights without diet and look where i was!!! Im doin diet now and look where i am!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i finished the day off strong (it was a carb load day).. had a half bbq chicken, fries, brunswick stew, and a snickers bar for dinner... YES!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Final note: add One peanut butter, jelly, and banana sandwich on white bread with a fairly decent sized glass of milk.. Now time for bed .... nitey nite

----------


## tbody66

Glad to hear your day went well. I'll see about posting a vid for the SLDL's with DB's, if you are doing them the way I expect and it still hits the low back we'll switch to barbell, if that doesn't work, I have something special you can try1 :0

----------


## slfmade

405 - Great Log and you're doing great. I'll be following.

Tbody - If you could post a video of BB SLDL that would be great. I think I'm having the same problem as 405. I feel it A LOT in my QL's (lower back muscles) and very little in my legs. I'm pretty dang sure my form is right, but I would love to see how you're doing it.

405 - Tbody has me doing BB SLDL supersetted with 7/7/7 calf raises - then right back into it. I was having to go super low with my weight at first just to keep my grip and my forearms were on fire. I bought some wrist straps and it makes a world of difference. I forgot to ask Tbody if this was okay, but if he says its okay to use straps then that might help.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Glad to hear your day went well. I'll see about posting a vid for the SLDL's with DB's, if you are doing them the way I expect and it still hits the low back we'll switch to barbell, if that doesn't work, I have something special you can try1 :0


u know tbody part of it may have to do with the fact that im fairly flexible when it comes to that movement.. so touching the floor with my palms is something i can do.. its not really a stretch for me .. i thought about standing on top of something.. also like slf said my forearms burn like crazy (which ive tried dealing with thinking it may be good for them to keep holding the weight).. maybe if i move to BB i could get straps and use more weight.. it wouldnt be an issue except the fact that im doing 30 reps.. i could prob increase the weight if i had straps...

curious as to the "special thing u have"

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 405 - Great Log and you're doing great. I'll be following.
> 
> Tbody - If you could post a video of BB SLDL that would be great. I think I'm having the same problem as 405. I feel it A LOT in my QL's (lower back muscles) and very little in my legs. I'm pretty dang sure my form is right, but I would love to see how you're doing it.
> 
> 405 - Tbody has me doing BB SLDL supersetted with 7/7/7 calf raises - then right back into it. I was having to go super low with my weight at first just to keep my grip and my forearms were on fire. I bought some *wrist straps* and it makes a world of difference. I forgot to ask Tbody if this was okay, but if he says its okay to use straps then that might help.


thx for the compliment on my log and progress  :Smilie: 

i thought about straps too but figd itd be a good forearm workout to keep holding the weight.. but im wondering whats more important my forearms or my legs?? im thinking legs  :Smilie:

----------


## zaggahamma

i try to keep straps to a minimum but bring em out when i wanna go a lil heavier with pulls

definitely legs

keep gettin it done bro

----------


## GirlyGymRat

i see you are still be accountable

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ gotta be girl  :Smilie:  thx for stoppn by

----------


## tbody66

> 405 - Great Log and you're doing great. I'll be following.
> 
> Tbody - If you could post a video of BB SLDL that would be great. I think I'm having the same problem as 405. I feel it A LOT in my QL's (lower back muscles) and very little in my legs. I'm pretty dang sure my form is right, but I would love to see how you're doing it.
> 
> 405 - Tbody has me doing BB SLDL supersetted with 7/7/7 calf raises - then right back into it. I was having to go super low with my weight at first just to keep my grip and my forearms were on fire. I bought some wrist straps and it makes a world of difference. I forgot to ask Tbody if this was okay, but if he says its okay to use straps then that might help.


Well, I've found that a properly performed SLDL has little to do with the weight, it truly is the movement, as it is primarily a stretch, and I always feel it in my hamstrings like no other exercise I've ever done. So I'll post that video up soon. No problems with using straps on this motion as there is nothing straps would take away from. I am a big fan of making the exercise about the muscle it's supposed to be about, if your forearms are on fire it can take away from the purpose of the lift, so use em'. The key is pushing your butt back and away. I always stand on a box for this motion, and I'm not as flexible as you, although I am fairly flexible. Some people stand on a flat bench. 




> u know tbody part of it may have to do with the fact that im fairly flexible when it comes to that movement.. so touching the floor with my palms is something i can do.. its not really a stretch for me .. i thought about standing on top of something.. also like slf said my forearms burn like crazy (which ive tried dealing with thinking it may be good for them to keep holding the weight).. maybe if i move to BB i could get straps and use more weight.. it wouldnt be an issue except the fact that im doing 30 reps.. i could prob increase the weight if i had straps...
> 
> curious as to the "special thing u have"


I will show that to you sometime, but the "special thing" is still not as affective at building the hamstrings as properly performed SLDL's!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ok well i look forward to the vid on sldl  :Smilie: 

Did bf% tonite.. Last week:11.69%
This week:11.38%

Not big but still in the rite xirection  :Smilie:

----------


## tbody66

> Ok well i look forward to the vid on sldl 
> 
> Did bf% tonite.. Last week:11.69%
> This week:11.38%
> 
> Not big but still in the rite xirection


yup...yup!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well woke up this am and went to church ..now im at work.. back at it hard again in the am  :Smilie:

----------


## -KJ-

Just back on the boards 405.
Your progress is amazing well done.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx kj and welcome back man ! I recognize ur avi  :Smilie:  now get to work !!  :Wink:

----------


## -KJ-

The diet is up and log is running. Ill be starting this tomorrow....

----------


## --->>405<<---

good deal..

----------


## Back In Black

> Ok well i look forward to the vid on sldl 
> 
> Did bf% tonite.. Last week:11.69%
> This week:11.38%
> 
> Not big but still in the rite xirection


Good news mate, keep on it.

Also good news your thread just hit 1000 posts, well done mate.

----------


## Papiriqui

Yeah i think SLDL have to be performed correctly if not i think it would put more pressure on lower back!! Like properly bent back and stickin your butt out when lowering bar, as well as going a few inches past your knees.

Ive dont them with 276 which is heavy for me and no problems with lower back at all

----------


## tbody66

Good to hear about church and still get to work to make some extra money. God is good!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Good news mate, keep on it.
> 
> Also good news your thread just hit 1000 posts, well done mate.


THX Man  :Smilie:  and u were the 1000th poster.. i askd u this question yesterday but since i have another page ill ask again hoping u see it.. what do u think about me bumping up refeed to 1 every 7 days instead of 14???

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Good to hear about church and still get to work to make some extra money. *God is good!*


i know thats rite!

----------


## Back In Black

> THX Man  and u were the 1000th poster.. i askd u this question yesterday but since i have another page ill ask again hoping u see it.. what do u think about me bumping up refeed to 1 every 7 days instead of 14???


Try it and see. You know I 'cheat' every Saturday night. It's a controlled cheat over 1 meal only. Though I probably almost double my usual daily fat intake for the day and my carbs probably go up by 30%.

Time to experiment but don't lose sight of the prize.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Yeh i have been doing a little experimenting.. Last week i had a carb load day that turned into a cheat meal day and thrn had another kind of cheat meal(grilld chk breast bone-in and fries baked with alot of ketchup) the next day.. Fat had still gone down 0.33% i suppose it couldve droppd more had i not cheated but it was worth it  :Smilie: 

Now i gotta get my lazy butt off the couch and do my HIIT!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Alright HIIT is dun dude!

Well prob no lifting today cuz im off work and the gym is 45 mins away.. Was good to get the cardio dun though.. Hadnt done any since friday ...

Also got 10hrs of sleep last nite and gonna be lazy and lay on the couch all day today  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

And just that quik i now have to be at work at 1300... So much for lazy butt on the couch all day  :Smilie:  maybe now ill get my liftn dun too..

----------


## RaginCajun

way to stay on top of things!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx cajun good to see u man  :Smilie:

----------


## BrownGirl

Nice job on the bf loss 405! You seem to be very motivated! I'll be following... :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx brn girl  :Smilie:  yes very motivated ... Just finishd doing chest and bis.. Had a great wkout.. Went up on reps again for set to failure.. Tbody i think im gonna have to go to 75lb DBs next week as i got 20 reps in all 3 of my last sets incline,flat,and decline.. I would consider 80s but theyre rickety  :Wink:  and my shoulderS def dont need to be pumping rickety 80lb DBs ...

----------


## --->>405<<---

SteM i have a question for ya.. Theres a lady who thinks she knows everything in the gym that told me eating 100g carbs is bad for me in the sense that i need 1g carb for every lb of bodyweight and i need to chk my blood sugar to mAke sure im not walkn around hypogly***ic which could be bad for metabolism and thyroid function?? Now let me say my baseline TSH was 0.73 in october(a few weeks after i started my cut) and as of 2 weeks ago it was 1.3 ... Could there be a correlAtion?? So basically my thyroid has slowed down ...

----------


## tbody66

> Thx brn girl  yes very motivated ... Just finishd doing chest and bis.. Had a great wkout.. Went up on reps again for set to failure.. Tbody i think im gonna have to go to 75lb DBs next week as i got 20 reps in all 3 of my last sets incline,flat,and decline.. I would consider 80s but theyre rickety  and my shoulderS def dont need to be pumping rickety 80lb DBs ...


Go to the 75's and let me know how that works.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Will do  :Smilie:  

Ready to get off work.. I need meal 6 LOL IM HUNGRY ...

----------


## Back In Black

> SteM i have a question for ya.. Theres a lady who thinks she knows everything in the gym that told me eating 100g carbs is bad for me in the sense that i need 1g carb for every lb of bodyweight and i need to chk my blood sugar to mAke sure im not walkn around hypogly***ic which could be bad for metabolism and thyroid function?? Now let me say my baseline TSH was 0.73 in october(a few weeks after i started my cut) and as of 2 weeks ago it was 1.3 ... Could there be a correlAtion?? So basically my thyroid has slowed down ...


Numbers are thrown about and recommended but everything has to 'fit' the individual.

Your refeed is designed so your metabolism isn't impacted/slowed too much. If there was no refeed I may have insisted you follow my original suggestion of approx 160-180g carbs per day. Which is approx 1g/lb of your approx goal weight. 

What did your Quack say about your thyroid test results? Any TRT reason why they would change?

----------


## tbody66

Re-feed! Re-feed! Re-feed!

----------


## --->>405<<---

I need to ask doc that question..Will prob send an email today asking just that.. He put me on armour thyroid.. Done some research and decided to take first pill today.. Thyroid is a totally difft animal than test levels  :Smilie:  now i have something else i have to learn.. Apparently mt free T3 isnt optimal andnhes going to optimize it.. Talkd to a few people on here about it.. 

This lady i told u about is a busybody that thinks she knows everything  :Smilie:  

now a cheat meal thats not necessarily loaded with carbs wouldnt acfomplish the same thing as a carb load would it? Even if it high in say fat and calories? 

Is it something special about the abundance of carbs and not necessarily an abundance of calories??

----------


## Back In Black

> I need to ask doc that question..Will prob send an email today asking just that.. He put me on armour thyroid.. Done some research and decided to take first pill today.. Thyroid is a totally difft animal than test levels  now i have something else i have to learn.. Apparently mt free T3 isnt optimal andnhes going to optimize it.. Talkd to a few people on here about it.. 
> 
> This lady i told u about is a busybody that thinks she knows everything  
> 
> now a cheat meal thats not necessarily loaded with carbs wouldnt acfomplish the same thing as a carb load would it? Even if it high in say fat and calories? 
> 
> Is it something special about the abundance of carbs and not necessarily an abundance of calories??


Some peolpe read a book/magazine and know everything. Thouhg she's not wholly incorrect there is a world of difference in real life application especially as other factors need to be taken into consideration.

Cheat meal is not a refeed no. A refeed should be over most of the day rather than 1 meal. 

Mate, if you're concerned have a week where you have 40g carbs in your first 4 meals of the day and not in the final 2 (other than veggies). You may gain 'weight' but that'll just be water in the muscles and should, in theory, make you stronger in the gym too. I'd prob lower your protein (to 240gish) and fat (to45g) intake so cals aren't boosted too much if at all.

----------


## --->>405<<---

ye its funny u mention that.. i was talkn to tbody in his thread and he suggested maybe take a week off the gym and as he put it "eat like a beast" and then come back in with a new wkout and back on diet.. now lets me say i dont interpret eat like a beast to mean have 7 cheat days or even have 7 cheat meals.. but im wondering ur thoughts on this.. seeing as how ive been on a cut for 16 weeks and been lifting 4days/week every week i wondered if u thought this mite be to my advantage? never really considered it .. what are ur thoughts?

----------


## Back In Black

I usually take a week off the gym every 12 weeks or so. Usually enforced by holiday/illness/need for rest. So yep, take a week off lifting, change your macro split as suggested and see how you feel/look. Maybe just do some light/moderate cardio to keep yourself ticking over. Wait til you finish your current lifting programme and then do it.

Ha ha, you'll need the rest after/before Tbody has done with you!

----------


## Papiriqui

I would be scare to take a week completely off from gym and diet after all accomplished. I would lay off weights and just do cardio and change the diet, not recommending this just saying as far as myself, i would definitely be to scared.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I usually take a week off the gym every 12 weeks or so. Usually enforced by holiday/illness/need for rest. So yep, take a week off lifting, change your macro split as suggested and see how you feel/look. Maybe just do some *light/moderate cardio* to keep yourself ticking over. Wait til you finish your current lifting programme and then do it.
> 
> *Ha ha, you'll need the rest after/before Tbody has done with you!*


yeh thats what i was thinking of doing(cardio)

def will need to rest up for tbodys workouts  :Smilie:  he puts together some good ones!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I would be scare to* take a week completely off from gym and diet* after all accomplished. I would lay off weights and just do cardio and change the diet, not recommending this just saying as far as myself, i would definitely be to scared.


yeh pap just from the gym.. diet will stay relatively the same except bump carbs up to 160g per day.. prob drop fat down a touch.. or maybe not who knows... i dont think 60g carbs is gonna put me outside maintenance cals.. may reduce PB from 32 g to 16g... just give the old body some rest and nourishment and start again ...

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i didnt get to bed til 0030 so no cardio this am.. wasnt gonna do it with only 4hrs sleep.. still lookn leaner in the mirror.. lunch:back/tris... morning  :Smilie:

----------


## Papiriqui

> well i didnt get to bed til 0030 so no cardio this am.. wasnt gonna do it with only 4hrs sleep.. still lookn leaner in the mirror.. lunch:back/tris... morning


Leaner, me liky  :Wink:

----------


## tbody66

good stuff. so are you saying you are taking a week off or you are planning on scheduling taking a week off from lifting?

----------


## --->>405<<---

no im not takn this week off cuz i already started it.. i will take next week off from lifting and manipulate macros a touch and just do cardio.. although i dunno..stem suggested i drop protein down to 240g i think..i kinda like my protein at 300  :Smilie:  not saying hes incorrect mind you about me dropping it to compensate.. just thinking since ive been in a deficit for 4 months im wondering if it mite do me some good to run a little closer to maintanence for the week i take off???

----------


## Back In Black

If you leave protein and fats as they are and increase carbs by, say, 80g per day, that's an additional 320cals per day x 7 = 2240cals. Also you will not be lifting for your usual 4 days which will put you down about 1600ish cals. That gives you a net gain of cals for the week at almost 4000, approx 600 extra cals per day. It is a refeed and, if you want to keep your protein where it is then so be it. Just don't fall into the trap of being scared to 'let go' of your protein.

If you do keep protein where it is you MUST drop your fat to 45 g per day max. If it means you have to drop your PB then drop it. It's only for 7 days.

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh i suppose there is a certain amt of not wanting to let go of the protein.. but the main reason i was thinking bout staying the same with it is cuz i like to eat!  :Wink:  carb-wise i was thinking 160g/day...which would put me around 2400cals/day.. bmr is @2050 thats only 350 over bmr plus not taking into consideration cardio.. (now mind u im not being argumentative, obviously i know u know more than me which is why im asking u :Smilie: ) im just noting my thought process so u can see how i think about it...

----------


## tbody66

IMO, if you spend this much time stressing about the time off and planning it just like you plan your time on then it's like vacationing in paradise and calling into work and keeping them on blue-tooth 24/7 just like you were there....NOT THE WAY IT SHOULD BE! Take an entire week off, guilt free, stress free, workout free, diet free, PERIOD!

----------


## --->>405<<---

I like the way u think tbody!!  :Smilie: 

Now r u gonna be able to give me a new workout for when i start back?? I knownu mentioned focus on the tops of shoulders and traps.. I also need to work on pecs and lats.. I dunno if 1 bodypart/day 5 day wkout would be better?? Like chest:back:legs:arms:shoulders.... Ur the workout guy  :Smilie:  lats,traps,pecs.. I think biggest lagging areas.. Ill post some pics if ud like... Only thing is i still have some fat to lose.. So i dunno if ill be Able to grow and drop fat.. Prob not..

----------


## --->>405<<---

I like the way u think tbody!!  :Smilie: 

Now r u gonna be able to give me a new workout for when i start back?? I knownu mentioned focus on the tops of shoulders and traps.. I also need to work on pecs and lats.. I dunno if 1 bodypart/day 5 day wkout would be better?? Like chest:back:legs:arms:shoulders.... Ur the workout guy  :Smilie:  lats,traps,pecs.. I think biggest lagging areas.. Ill post some pics if ud like... Only thing is i still have some fat to lose.. So i dunno if ill be Able to grow and drop fat.. Prob not..

----------


## tbody66

> I like the way u think tbody!! 
> 
> Now r u gonna be able to give me a new workout for when i start back?? I knownu mentioned focus on the tops of shoulders and traps.. I also need to work on pecs and lats.. I dunno if 1 bodypart/day 5 day wkout would be better?? Like chest:back:legs:arms:shoulders.... Ur the workout guy  lats,traps,pecs.. I think biggest lagging areas.. Ill post some pics if ud like... Only thing is i still have some fat to lose.. So i dunno if ill be Able to grow and drop fat.. Prob not..


I will design a program and explain why I do the things I do. IMO you shouldn't focus on too much at once, so we will pick up the most lagging area and work with the new workout for 2 months and then change it up again. Post those pics, total body front side and rear, show the legs, wear the bikini!

----------


## Back In Black

> I will design a program and explain why I do the things I do. IMO you shouldn't focus on too much at once, so we will pick up the most lagging area and work with the new workout for 2 months and then change it up again. Post those pics, total body front side and rear, show the legs, *wear the bikini*!


Please, Lord, wax first if you do this!

----------


## Papiriqui

> Please, Lord, wax first if you do this!


Hahahahahaha

----------


## tbody66

> Please, Lord, wax first if you do this!


Yes, wax or shave, but no body oil, that would just be gay!

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL SteM!! U guys r funny  :Smilie:  i have some pics i took last nite but i hadnt shaven.. Thats really gonna be weird for me.. I dont know how the wifeis gonna feel about it.. When i askd her to shave my back she was like "why?" i think tat was more out of suspicion though cuz i never wanted to do it before.. I do not like all the hair... Maybe ill do it  :Smilie:  i won wear any bikini though.. Shave or no shave.. Ill get it dun  :Wink:  rite now i need protein.. Just finishd HIIT..

----------


## tbody66

Shave it....Shave it....Shave it!!!

----------


## Papiriqui

hahahahaha

----------


## --->>405<<---

Weighed in today at 188lbs! Havent been in 180s since 2005.. Pretty happy with that  :Smilie:  just thought id share.. That makes an even 25lbs droppd in 16 weeks!! And im lifting more weight now at 188lbs than when i started At 213lbs..  :Smilie:  :Smilie:

----------


## tbody66

Congrats. You have done it and you will continue to get it done.

----------


## --->>405<<---

U know upon further reflection i just started my AI friday of last week... So some of the weight ive been carrying may have been due to the elevated E2 i had/have and am getting down.. I know with it comes water retention...

----------


## tbody66

don't take away from you doing your part and being hardcore about your approach!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Im not just thinkn maybe i woukdnt have stuck at 192-195 for so long if it werent for test..

----------


## --->>405<<---

0600 start at work = no am cardio  :Wink: 

lunch:legs

----------


## Papiriqui

Congrats!!! Buddy, im proud of you!! Keep going strong, not long to go  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx pap  :Smilie: 

well tbody legs was tuff again.. i dont think ill ever "get used" to leg day  :Smilie:  i think this was the last one for the DB only routine.. when r we gonna work on my new workout routine?

----------


## tbody66

> thx pap 
> 
> well tbody legs was tuff again.. i dont think ill ever "get used" to leg day  i think this was the last one for the DB only routine.. when r we gonna work on my new workout routine?


This weekend

----------


## --->>405<<---

i have a couple pics (with hair) i could post unless u wanna wait til i shave..??

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i took the wife out on a date last nite  :Smilie:  had fried shrimp, scallops, and oysters and fries and the went to a chocolate bar and had cappucino brownie and key lime pie with coconut crumb crust.. yum  :Smilie:  then i woke up at like 0400 all nauseous yay!!! guess the old body doesnt like all that grease and fat! it was good though..

lunch:shoulders/bis/tris

----------


## tbody66

Glad to hear about the date night, and your body's reaction to poopie food. Post those pics.

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok here they are hair and all  :Smilie:

----------


## Papiriqui

You look great !!!! Damn cant wait to see what you look like when you reach your goal!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx pap..still a ways to go.. this dang belly fat takes forever! LOL

----------


## Papiriqui

Whatever it takes buddy!! Thats the reason we made the choice to live this lifestyle!! You'll get there!!

----------


## tbody66

pics look good, progress is great. I can't really tell through the forest but looks like chest needs filled out and the lats are lagging at least from the front. Is it possible to get some back pics? Does the shoulder present you with limitations on range of motion when we switch to a barbell routine?

----------


## gixxerboy1

> ok here they are hair and all


are you part bear? Damn

You've come a long way great job. You should be proud

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL on the forest comment.. 

got another back pic.. colored out the butt cheek for yall ..figd ud appreciate that LOL.. except maybe PAP  :Wink:  LOL

----------


## --->>405<<---

> are you part bear? Damn
> 
> You've come a long way great job. You should be proud


LMAO! funny i had a conversation with my wife last nite about the issue of my bodyhair and this website.. LOL

i think yall want me to shave it more than she does..  :Smilie: 

her take is: " whats the big deal? Ur a guy!"

LOL

----------


## tbody66

I like the base of the back, but lots of room for improvement there. What about the question about the shoulder and limitations for the new routine?

----------


## --->>405<<---

BB bench and incline bench may give me some probs.. ill have to try it out and see.. with bb bench the pain comes at the bottom of the movement.. but its been a while since ive done any bb bench(like 6 months) so it may be better.. if im going to be going heavy or heavier i may have to stick with DBs...

definitely need chest fill out and lat work.. until recently lats have been a very weak point with me.. most of my adult life ive been over 200lbs(up to 235) and i could never do chins.. i have surpassed that limitation... now i can do 4 sets x 12 chins with no weight.. if i am gonna be doing weighted chins ill need a belt..

forget dips..theyre out of the question..

id like to think i can maybe do some semi heavy squats again(315lbs maybe 365) without too much shoulder trouble.. i think my leg size is ok though just need more definition..i can measure them tonite if u like.. i suppose i could measure everywhere if u think itd help u get a better idea of where im at?

----------


## --->>405<<---

oh yeh 1 other thing.. no cardio again today(thats 3 days in a row) cuz i got to enjoy heart palpitations last nite from about 11pm-1230am..

*BYEBYE ARMOUR THYROID*

----------


## SlimmerMe

^^ I read this in your other thread. I bet you were shocked. IMO you more than likely don't need it anyway.

----------


## --->>405<<---

kinda shocked slim but kinda not.. this was the *exact reason* i debated using it in the first place.. im just glad it wasnt any worse than it was.. and it solved my dilemma early on  :Smilie:  that stuff is outta here!

----------


## Back In Black

Excellent work mate, you are a different man. I really hope everybody has noticed.

It's worth the effort, right!?!?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx SteM yeh def worth the effort.. People have def noticed  :Smilie:  so now im not fat anymore im ready to get truly "lean".. Did bf last nite and it came bak at 10.22% now i know thats wrong.. It dropped 1% since last week.. My majorntrouble spots still are the pecs and abs.. Fat just likes hanging around there and im ready for it to be gone... 

The only 2 caliper sites still in double digits r subscapular(11mm) and abdominal(13mm).. Everything else is single digit.. 

If i start doing 2-a-day cardio how would u suggest i do it? Am liss and pm hiit?? 

TBody ill be going back to my previous workout routine this week with less volume and kind of lightweight but still a workout to give my body a kind of rest.. Hoping next week to start new workout.. 

Just finished am cardio.. Did 25mins LISS 20mins HIIT.. In that order.. Plannd on doing all LISS but feeln kinda fat today so decided to bump it up to HIIT halfway thru..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Double post

----------


## tbody66

> Thx SteM yeh def worth the effort.. People have def noticed  so now im not fat anymore im ready to get truly "lean".. Did bf last nite and it came bak at 10.22% now i know thats wrong.. It dropped 1% since last week.. My majorntrouble spots still are the pecs and abs.. Fat just likes hanging around there and im ready for it to be gone... 
> 
> The only 2 caliper sites still in double digits r subscapular(11mm) and abdominal(13mm).. Everything else is single digit.. 
> 
> If i start doing 2-a-day cardio how would u suggest i do it? Am liss and pm hiit?? 
> *
> TBody ill be going back to my previous workout routine this week with less volume and kind of lightweight but still a workout to give my body a kind of rest.. Hoping next week to start new workout..* 
> 
> Just finished am cardio.. Did 25mins LISS 20mins HIIT.. In that order.. Plannd on doing all LISS but feeln kinda fat today so decided to bump it up to HIIT halfway thru..


Sounds like a good plan! Also a good idea to still eat appropriately, my "week off of over-eating" was very poor advice. Please forgive me for that.

----------


## baseline_9

> ok here they are hair and all


I cant believe how much progress you have made

Seriously, well done man.... U r looking mint

How much more BF do u wanna drop?

----------


## BBrian

> Weighed in today at 188lbs! Havent been in 180s since 2005.. Pretty happy with that  just thought id share.. That makes an even 25lbs droppd in 16 weeks!! And im lifting more weight now at 188lbs than when i started At 213lbs..


Wow 405, that is an amazing result of hard, disciplined work. Very inspiring to read man. Congratulations on your progress so far.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I cant believe how much progress you have made
> 
> Seriously, well done man.... U r looking mint
> 
> How much more BF do u wanna drop?


base thx for stoppn in man  :Smilie:  as well as for the compliment .. im not sure how much more.. as much as i can LOL.. i wanna be shredded man! def want a 6pack visible all the time!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Wow 405, that is an amazing result of hard, disciplined work. Very inspiring to read man. Congratulations on your progress so far.


BB preciate it dude  :Smilie: hitting it hard! nothin's gonna stop me now!.. 

Lord willing of course.. had to get that in  :Wink:

----------


## Back In Black

> Thx SteM yeh def worth the effort.. People have def noticed  so now im not fat anymore im ready to get truly "lean".. Did bf last nite and it came bak at 10.22% now i know thats wrong.. It dropped 1% since last week.. My majorntrouble spots still are the pecs and abs.*That's the same for most guys, and lovehandles!*. Fat just likes hanging around there and im ready for it to be gone... 
> 
> The only 2 caliper sites still in double digits r subscapular(11mm) and abdominal(13mm).. Everything else is single digit.. 
> 
> If i start doing 2-a-day cardio how would u suggest i do it? Am liss and pm hiit?? *Depends how your day pans out. But too much real HIIT will see burn out so really you need to listen to your body and plan the second session around your 'normal' workouts.*
> 
> TBody ill be going back to my previous workout routine this week with less volume and kind of lightweight but still a workout to give my body a kind of rest.. Hoping next week to start new workout.. 
> 
> Just finished am cardio.. Did 25mins LISS 20mins HIIT.. In that order.*Ideally, I would do this the other way around if you are going to do it*. Plannd on doing all LISS but feeln kinda fat today so decided to bump it up to HIIT halfway thru..


Keep on it mate, there is constant progression here. I know it gets harder to lose just a couple of lbs now but each 2lbs you now lose will have far more impact on the way you look than 2lbs 10 weeks ago!

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok tbody these r for u man..(and all the bodyhair haters on this website)  :Smilie:  i did it: hope these help u design my workout and notice my weak areas  :Smilie:  i tell u i look like an alien to myself after looking at all that hair for so long..

----------


## Back In Black

Ha ha, good lad, much better!

Has Mrs 405 seen it yet?

----------


## tbody66

Very nice, I really must say. It almost looks like an after shot of your after shots!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Ha ha, good lad, much better!
> 
> Has Mrs 405 seen it yet?


Yeh she saw it.. Not a huge rxn... Said i was gonna be itchy and clothes were gonna stick  :Smilie:  maybe shes a lil worried  :Wink:  LOL...

----------


## Papiriqui

Looking man!! Keep it up  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Very nice, I really must say. It almost looks like an after shot of your after shots!


Takes some getn used to  :Smilie: 

Had a good wkout today.. The plan was lite and easy.. Ended up doing:

BB incline:
12 x 95
12 x 135
8 x 185
5 x 225

DB Flat Bench(cant do bb i tried):
12 x 75
12 x 90
7 x 110 
8 x 90 superset w/ 8 x 75

Pec dec ss with pushdown:
12 x70 x 2
12 x 80

1 hand pushdown:
12 x 50
12 x 60
12 x 80
12 x 80

Closegrip:12 x 135 x 3 ss with
Overhead tri DB: 10 x 20 x 3
Kickbacks:10 x 12 x 3

----------


## tbody66

Good workout. Any trouble other than the flat bench?

----------


## --->>405<<---

no that was it  :Smilie: .. cant do flat bench..tried it at 185lbs...did 5 reps and threw in the towel..

----------


## BBrian

> no that was it .. cant do flat bench..tried it at 185lbs...did 5 reps and threw in the towel..


Don't feel bad, a lot of experienced lifters have done away with this and overhead shoulder presses.

----------


## RaginCajun

405, do you have shoulder issues? is that the flat bench prob?

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh shoulder..flat bench BB  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well lets try this again:

did 40 mins on treadmill at lunch cuz i only got 3 hrs sleep last nite and couldnt do cardio this am... sprints on incline.. if thats not HIIT i dont know wat is!  :Wink:  

15 sets/30sec/90sec 5min warmup/5min cooldown

----------


## tbody66

Good job, good day sir, working on that workout, will be ready soon soon soon.

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

Just saw your latest pics bro. You don't even look like the same person as your before pics. Amazing progress. 

Nice going and keep after it.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Just saw your latest pics bro. You don't even look like the same person as your before pics. Amazing progress. 
> 
> Nice going and keep after it.


Thx sarge  :Smilie:  will do!!

----------


## tbody66

It's because you shaved!

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^^LOL ... u know what tbody.. Im glad i did.. I think i will continue.. And ive also considered doing my legs ...

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well occasionally i get really hungry before bed and tonite was one of those nites.. Like other nites i ate xtra 8oz chk breast 1whole egg 5egg whites.. I figure this can do the least harm and maybe the old body will actually use it to do good.. I sure feel better.. I also always have 1cup cott. CHeese and 2 tbs nat pb(which i had as well) but those fit into macros..

----------


## SlimmerMe

Man o man you have done a great job 405~ Good work. Really really good.

Keep it up.

----------


## Standby

> Just saw your latest pics bro. You don't even look like the same person as your before pics. Amazing progress. 
> 
> Nice going and keep after it.


pretty much this bro. wow wtf who are you? and you even look 10x better shaved bro! fvck ridiculous

----------


## slfmade

Very well done 405...Keep it up! 

So you're thinking about shaving the legs huh? I'll tell you what; if you do it, I'll do it too! My legs look like sasquatch!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Man o man you have done a great job 405~ Good work. Really really good.
> 
> Keep it up.


def keeping it up slim thx  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> pretty much this bro. wow wtf who are you? and you even look 10x better shaved bro! fvck ridiculous


thx standby  :Smilie:  i tell u i like myself shaved better! i think im gonna keep it this way..

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Very well done 405...Keep it up! 
> 
> So you're thinking about shaving the legs huh? I'll tell you what; if you do it, I'll do it too! My legs look like sasquatch!


DEAL SLF :Smilie:  ill let u know when its dun.. will post pic before and after.. be prepared to do the same LOL...

----------


## --->>405<<---

well no cardio this am cuz im only wkn a hal;f day and gonna try my hand at some PWO cardio..

*SteM* ive not done alot(if any) PWO cardio so what should i do? have a treadmill.. LISS or HIIT?? duration?? thx..

----------


## Back In Black

Depends. What muscle group? If legs I wouldn't do HIIT but up to 40 mins LI. If not legs I would suggest 5 min warm up, 20 mins HIIT and then the remaining time (20 mins) doing LI. How's that sound?

Oh, and I'd be sipping on 10g BCAA's during my lifting.

----------


## Papiriqui

> well no cardio this am cuz im only wkn a hal;f day and gonna try my hand at some PWO cardio..
> 
> SteM ive not done alot(if any) PWO cardio so what should i do? have a treadmill.. LISS or HIIT?? duration?? thx..


I would go with slow and steady cardio session pwo imo.

----------


## Papiriqui

WAGL PRANUT TRIMMER!!! Is electrical but very small so is easy to use and not heavy at all!! Happy trimming  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Depends. What muscle group? If legs I wouldn't do HIIT but up to 40 mins LI. If not legs I would suggest 5 min warm up, 20 mins HIIT and then the remaining time (20 mins) doing LI. How's that sound?
> 
> Oh, and I'd be sipping on 10g BCAA's during my lifting.


yeh SteM today is back and bi's... 10g bcaa..hmmm i ran out like a week ago  :Smilie:  guess i need to get some more huh  :Wink:  LOL

----------


## tbody66

> WAGL PRANUT TRIMMER!!! Is electrical but very small so is easy to use and not heavy at all!! Happy trimming


I use a Wahl Peanut Trimmer.

----------


## --->>405<<---

im getting one  :Smilie:  let me ask yall this.. do ur wife/girlfriends ever comment that u feel prickly using that thing?

----------


## tbody66

My wife hasn't known me any other way. She likes it! I've been shaving for 20 years.

----------


## Papiriqui

> im getting one  let me ask yall this.. do ur wife/girlfriends ever comment that u feel prickly using that thing?


Nope, never! Buy it at ebay or something, you should be able to get it for less than $40

----------


## --->>405<<---

how often do yall use it? and how long does it usually take?

tbody u get her to do ur back?

do yall do ur legs too?

----------


## Papiriqui

> how often do yall use it? and how long does it usually take?
> 
> tbody u get her to do ur back?
> 
> do yall do ur legs too?


I dont do my legs at the moment, want to do the legs almost at the end of cuttin phase, so a bit to go still.

As far as frequency it all depends on how fast your hair grow, i could do my front area (chest, stomach) every 3 days but is to much so i do it every friday!! or if im going out or something i will shave just in case, you never know where you might end up at the end of the night lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^^LOL.. i remember those days.. Of course now i know exactly wher i end up.. Home with the wife  :Smilie: 

Had good bak wkout.. Did:
Rows x 4sets
Chins x 4 sets
Deads x 4 sets

HIIT X 10 sets 


A little tuffer PWO than am fasted  :Smilie:  plus im used to ellipticL..not sprinting...

----------


## -KJ-

good job 405! keep up solid work bro

----------


## --->>405<<---

Kj thx man  :Smilie:  

Well another day down.. Tomorrow 0600 start so ill head on over to the gym at lunch and get in a good HIIT treadmill session.. I like it actually.. The time really goes by faster with HIIT too.. I enjoy the extreme pain/awesome relief/extreme pain/awesome relief .. Of it  :Smilie: 

Oh yeh im takn the fam on a cruise in may to the bahamas.. So i have about 13-14 weeks to reAlly get bf down *low*... Will be hittn tanning bed by march.. Now i have something (other than myself and my wife) to look good for  :Smilie:  

Tbody when u can would u mind pointing out what appears to be lagging to u so i can start thinkn bout new routine?

----------


## G Hulk

hey 405 been following up on some of ur forums im 5ft9 22.8%bf 225 pounds can u please help me or refer me to a good diet plan

----------


## Back In Black

> hey 405 been following up on some of ur forums im 5ft9 22.8%bf 225 pounds can u please help me or refer me to a good diet plan


Sart your own thread, post your daily diet(including macro's) and the cycle you are on.

----------


## Back In Black

> Kj thx man  
> 
> Well another day down.. Tomorrow 0600 start so ill head on over to the gym at lunch and get in a good HIIT treadmill session.. I like it actually.. The time really goes by faster with HIIT too.. I enjoy the extreme pain/awesome relief/extreme pain/awesome relief .. Of it 
> 
> Oh yeh im takn the fam on a cruise in may to the bahamas.. So i have about 13-14 weeks to reAlly get bf down *low*... Will be hittn tanning bed by march.. Now i have something (other than myself and my wife) to look good for  
> 
> Tbody when u can would u mind pointing out what appears to be lagging to u so i can start thinkn bout new routine?


Is this as well as a trip to France?

----------


## Papiriqui

Nice buddy, make sure you go to the fish fry in bahamas, small little town where they have the best seafood!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Is this as well as a trip to France?


shoot yeh man! france 2013.. Le Tour de France  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Nice buddy, make sure you go to the fish fry in bahamas, small little town where they have the best seafood!!


well as long as disney cruise line goes there.. where is it specifically?

----------


## Times Roman

Question
should we call you --->>405<<---
or can we just call you 405 for short?

----------


## --->>405<<---

405 is fine  :Smilie:

----------


## Papiriqui

> well as long as disney cruise line goes there.. where is it specifically?


Is an area in Nassau, Bahamas!! Just hop in a cab and tell them to take you to the fish fry!!! Awesoooome  :Wink: 

Go to Atlantis Hotel as well, they have a nice water park as well as the atlantis lost city aquarium which is pretty nice, or get a tour to go and do something at another island like feed the sting rays, swim with dolphins, etc

----------


## tbody66

I rotate my shaving so it isn't a "chore" So mondays I'll shave my arms, tuesdays my chest/belly, wednesdays my pits, thursdays my calves, fridays my thighs, saturdays low back/butt, my wife hits my upper back with the peanut whenever I ask her to.

I'll look over the pics closely, you will probably want to avoid barbell bench for the entire rest of your life, it sounds like, but as has been mentioned quite a few bodybuilders and don't barbell bench. The obvious difference in your shoulders and biceps would be nice to fix if at all possible, not sure how to go about that without surgery. Have you asked a Chiropractor?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Is an area in Nassau, Bahamas!! Just hop in a cab and tell them to take you to the fish fry!!! Awesoooome 
> 
> Go to Atlantis Hotel as well, they have a nice water park as well as the atlantis lost city aquarium which is pretty nice, or get a tour to go and do something at another island like feed the sting rays, swim with dolphins, etc


good deal pap thx man!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I rotate my shaving so it isn't a "chore" So mondays I'll shave my arms, tuesdays my chest/belly, wednesdays my pits, thursdays my calves, fridays my thighs, saturdays low back/butt, my wife hits my upper back with the peanut whenever I ask her to.
> 
> I'll look over the pics closely, you will probably want to avoid barbell bench for the entire rest of your life, it sounds like, but as has been mentioned quite a few bodybuilders and don't barbell bench. The obvious difference in your shoulders and biceps would be nice to fix if at all possible, not sure how to go about that without surgery. Have you asked a Chiropractor?


good idea with shaving  :Smilie: 

yeh sux bout my shoulder and bi but oh well..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well had a great cardio interval hill sprint session at lunch.. 5 min warm up/ 15 sets sprints on incline / 2 min cooldown

----------


## RaginCajun

i know how ya feel with the shoulder, i cant do any heavy lifting right now and it is killing me! the 3 big exercises are my favorite and the only one i can do is squats. can tell you are getting leaner by your avy!

----------


## tbody66

Good Morning, 405!

----------


## Papiriqui

Yeah good morning mister skinny  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx cajun  :Smilie: 
Mornin tbody and pap! 
Well last nite i had shrimp fajitas,chips and salsa, and refried beans.. Yum yum! And i did no cardio this am cuz ive done HIIT incline sprints on treadmill 4 days in a row.. Thought i deservd a break..

Lunch:legs.. Figure the mex food last nite will help fuel that workout  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

had a good leg workout today.. kept it simple..

squat:
20 x bar
10 x 135
10 x 185
10 x 225
10 x 225
10 x 275
10 x 275
10 x 275
10 x 275
10 x 225
10 x 225
10 x 225

done...

----------


## tbody66

How'd that feel?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Felt good  :Smilie:  

Was tired when dun but legs felt good.. Shoulder was ok.. Need a pad for the bar to even consider going any heavier.. Shoulder did pretty good and no prob at all with knee.. I enjoyed the simplicity of the workout.. Never dun a 10x10 before .. Although i think i did a lil more than 10x10 today.. Course i didnt wanna count the first 2 sets and debated on counting the set with 185.. But was tired and didnt feel like doing one more set so let it slide  :Wink:  Was good!!!

----------


## slfmade

> had a good leg workout today.. kept it simple..
> 
> squat:
> 20 x bar
> 10 x 135
> 10 x 185
> 10 x 225
> 10 x 225
> 10 x 275
> ...


That looks MISERABLE!!!! I hope Tbody NEVER has this in store for me!!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> That looks MISERABLE!!!! I hope Tbody NEVER has this in store for me!!!!!


funny... actually i came up with that on my own.. i will say the leg wkout tbody gave me for the past month is actually harder than that was..at least for me..i woulda thrown in a 315lb set or 2 but i need a pad for the bar..

im happy to say i woke up and did my 45 min fasted LISS cardio this am.. first time this week.. every other day has been lunchtime HIIT

----------


## --->>405<<---

> That looks MISERABLE!!!! I hope Tbody NEVER has this in store for me!!!!!


funny... actually i came up with that on my own.. i will say the leg wkout tbody gave me for the past month is actually harder than that was..at least for me..i woulda thrown in a 315lb set or 2 but i need a pad for the bar..

im happy to say i woke up and did my 45 min fasted LISS cardio this am.. first time this week.. every other day has been lunchtime HIIT

----------


## tbody66

10x10's are pretty popular here, and definitely a stress inducing change of pace!

----------


## Back In Black

Mate, if you add a pad to the bar it will make it harder to balance and if it slips you have the potential for increased risk of injury and not just to the shoulder.

The more the padding the more the risk.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 10x10's are pretty popular here, and definitely a stress inducing change of pace!


maybe thats an idea  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Mate, if you add a pad to the bar it will make it harder to balance and if it slips you have the potential for increased risk of injury and not just to the shoulder.
> 
> The more the padding the more the risk.


noted:i think 275 is heavy enuff for wat i wanna do.. not too worried bout making the legs bigger  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

had a good shoulder workout today:

seated db press:
12 x 45
12 x 55
12 x 65
7 x 70;7 x 45

side raise:
12 x 15
12 x 15

front raise:
12 x 15
12 x 15

facepullls:
12 x 90
12 x 90
12 x 90
12 x 90

bb press to failure:
26 x 135

----------


## BrownGirl

Wow...your workouts are intense!!! Awesome job for being able to do that!

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx browngirl  :Smilie: 

i gotta cruise to get ready for!  :Wink:  gotta make the wife proud to be seen with me.. LOL

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Mate, if you add a pad to the bar it will make it harder to balance and if it slips you have the potential for increased risk of injury and not just to the shoulder.
> 
> The more the padding the more the risk.


think i just need to add padding the proper way stem... TRAPS!!

----------


## -KJ-

Hey 405... I know you get your wife to test your BF levels but i was just wondering I am gonna start getting my gf to test mine as I have a calipers. 
Is your wife trained in that area or did she just do it for you??

----------


## Back In Black

> think i just need to add padding the proper way stem... TRAPS!!


Mate, the leaner you get the more painful it gets. Though the bar is easier to balance with less fat as it seems to sit in the 'grooves' of the muscles. If you need some padding maybe a tshirt or small towel. Or you could just man up, ha ha.

BTW does the military barbell press not bother your shoulder?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Hey 405... I know you get your wife to test your BF levels but i was just wondering I am gonna start getting my gf to test mine as I have a calipers. 
> Is your wife trained in that area or did she just do it for you??


Shed been trained in the area but i has been awhile.. She also is trained kickboxing instructor .. As well as a cpr trainer  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Mate, the leaner you get the more painful it gets. Though the bar is easier to balance with less fat as it seems to sit in the 'grooves' of the muscles. If you need some padding maybe a tshirt or small towel. Or you could just man up, ha ha.
> 
> BTW does the military barbell press not bother your shoulder?


Yeh ive done the shirt and towel thing.. Its ok until i put 275 on there .. 315 or more and i really need one...

As far as bb shoulder press..no doesnt bother shoulder at all.. I dont bring the bar all the way to my chest though.. Stop at about the chin...

----------


## --->>405<<---

Weighed in today.. Beginning weight:213 Bf:21.87%
Todays weight:190 Bf:9.36%

Beginning LBM:75.48
Todays LBM: 78.11

LBS LOST(16weeks):23
% LOST:12.51
LBM gained:2.63kg(5.8lbs)

Thats what im talkn bout!  :Smilie:   :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Happy days matey boy.

Desire, Discipline & Dedication, the magic 3 D's. Man, that's what you got. Oh, and a pretty ok teacher;-)

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Happy days matey boy.
> 
> Desire, Discipline & Dedication, the magic 3 D's. Man, that's what you got. Oh, and a pretty ok teacher;-)


 :Smilie:  an awesome teacher!! I cant tell u how much i appreciate ur help man ... Thx for helping me in the beginning and all the way thru.. And for continuing to help me cuz i still have a ways to go  :Wink:  this is really an awesome website and im proud to be a part of it! Beats the hell out of any nutrition expert u have to pay for any day.. Plus u get to make friends on top of it! Im def feeling really good  :Smilie:  mirror is startn to look good  :Smilie:  chest is coming in and i think it wont be too long before the abs start to show.. Its funny i even notice when im showering how difft my body feels to the touch now!! A real blessing  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

I remember when i askd if u could get me where i wanna be and u said u could and ur reputation depended on it .. U lived up to that for sure  :Smilie:  mate...

----------


## Back In Black

Mate, you can lead a hoss to water etc etc. I knew after your initial couple of posts you'd be good for this transformation. Very few people have the determination to see any kind of 'diet' beyond a month, so I doth my cap to you.

And I don't need to know about you touching yourself in the shower...............................

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Mate, you can lead a hoss to water etc etc. I knew after your initial couple of posts you'd be good for this transformation. Very few people have the determination to see any kind of 'diet' beyond a month, so I doth my cap to you.
> 
> *And I don't need to know about you touching yourself in the shower*...............................



LMAO... Now thats funny  :Smilie:  sorry... LOL..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Double post  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well a good day all the way around.. Finally was able to put on the elusive banana republic chinos i havent been able to button in 6yrs today!! Thought it was about time to give em a go.. Fit like a glove  :Smilie: 

Tbody wheres my wkout!!??! LOL j/k man  :Wink:

----------


## tbody66

Mon Chest/Calves

Decline Bench progressive warm up sets then 3 sets 6 reps, 4th set to failure, heavy as you can stand on the last set if you get more than 8 you need to start heavier next time.
Flat DB Bench 3 sets 6 reps, 4th set to failure, progressive weight, on the last set if you get more than 8 you need to start heavier next time.
Incline Bench 3 sets 6 reps, 4th set to failure, progressive weight, on the last set if you get more than 8 you need to start heavier next time.
DB Flyes, lightweight for a stretch, full stretch at the bottom, steady and slow 4 sets 25 reps SUPERSET with
toe presses, straight on 4 sets 25 reps

Tue Back/Abs

Deadlifts progressive warm-ups followed by 3 sets 11 reps, 4th set to failure, heavy as you can, if you get more than 15 reps on last set go heavier next time.
T-Bar Rows 3 sets 6 reps, 4th set to failure, heavy as you can over 8 reps on last set go heavier next time.
Wide Grip pull downs 3 sets 11 reps, 4th set to failure.
Low Rows 3 sets 11 reps, 4th set dropset supersetted with
Ab crunches 4 sets 51 reps each

Wednesday - cardio

Thursday - Legs

Squats 225 10x10
SLDL's 4 sets 25 reps supersetted with
toe-raises 4 sets of 21's

Friday Shoulders/arms/abs

Upright Rows 4 sets 25 reps
Standing barbell Military Press 3 sets 11 reps, 4th set to failure
Shrugs 4 sets 25 reps superset with
Bicycles 4 sets 51 reps

Rope push downs 4 sets 15 reps superset with
Standing Barbell Curls 4 sets 1 reps
Skull-Crushers 4 sets 15 reps Superset with
EZ Curl narrow grip preacher curls 4 sets 15 reps
Dips 4 sets to failure superset with
DB Concentration curls 4 sets 15 reps

----------


## slfmade

LOL-Tbody - 51 reps of bicycles???? Why not 50 or 55? Just curious

----------


## tbody66

> LOL-Tbody - 51 reps of bicycles???? Why not 50 or 55? Just curious


It's my favorite number.

----------


## slfmade

My favorite is 52...so please change it! LOL j/k

----------


## --->>405<<---

well 0600 start today so no am cardio..maybe hiit pwo maybe not  :Smilie:

----------


## -KJ-

> well 0600 start today so no am cardio..maybe hiit pwo maybe not


Whats your goals from here 405? I know your original goal was 12%...

----------


## --->>405<<---

well thats a good question LOL

i dont think the 9% is completely accurate.. im trying to get a lean and cut as i can by the time i go on our cruise which is now booked for april 29!!! hoping to have visible abs 24/7 by then.. thats my goal KJ  :Smilie: 

once thats achieved ill prob hang there for a while to let the body get used to being there and then start a lean bulk prob around august or sept.. maybe with a lil deca or something  :Smilie:  or maybe just with my current trt..

----------


## tbody66

sounds like a great plan to me.

----------


## -KJ-

> well thats a good question LOL
> 
> i dont think the 9% is completely accurate.. im trying to get a lean and cut as i can by the time i go on our cruise which is now booked for april 29!!! hoping to have visible abs 24/7 by then.. thats my goal KJ 
> 
> once thats achieved ill prob hang there for a while to let the body get used to being there and then start a lean bulk prob around august or sept.. maybe with a lil deca or something  or maybe just with my current trt..


You have very similar goals to me...

I plan on cutting as much as I can until I am 10% or so hopefully and then maintain that for my trip to Orlando and new york in august. 
After my trip a very very lean bulk (Once i cut i never wanna be fat again  :Smilie:  ) until the next cut comes around

----------


## RaginCajun

looks like you have a plan! keep up the inspiring work bud!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Tbody had a good chest wkout today  :Smilie:  likd it thx man..

Decl Bench:
10 x 135
8 x 185
6 x 225
6 x 245
6 x 245

Flat Db:
6 x 90
6 x 110
6 x 110
7 x 90

Incl Bench:
6 x 135
6 x 185
6 x 185
6 x 185

DB Fly:
15 x 30
12 x 40
12 x 40
12 x 35

Dun deal  :Smilie:

----------


## tbody66

> Tbody had a good chest wkout today  likd it thx man..
> 
> Decl Bench:
> 10 x 135
> 8 x 185
> 6 x 225
> 6 x 245
> 6 x 245
> 
> ...


Well done. I think you are going to like how your body responds to this program!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Man i hope ur rite!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well another day dun  :Smilie:  ive got my wife on a cutting diet as well now  :Smilie:  which is a compliment to me cuz she knkws everything LOL.. Shes havn a hard time eatn all her food.. 

Not sure if the same rules apply but this is where i startd her:

126lbs 25% bf
LBM:42.87
Bmr:1295
Tdee:2007

1269
156p/100c/24f. (i know its below bmr but she cant eat all of this yet.. Figd once she gets used to it id adjust up to 1400)

Rite now she only was able to eat 4 of her meals.. Have her eatn 5.. Prob only about 900cals.. Imfigure shes gonna have to work herself into getting all 5 down.. Said if she ate another bite shed throw up so i didnt push it  :Smilie:  gotta be sensitive  :Wink: 

Got her doing am fasted cardio(walking on treadmill on incline..stem should i give her bcaas too?? She may not like it and has difft goals although i know she doesnt wanna lose muscle) 30mins workn up to 45 prob 5days/week...Figd id give her 2weeks to get used to diet and cardio before throwing lifting on her.. Dont want her to get overwhelmed.. Was thinking maybe 2days/week circuit upperbody and 1day/week legs?? Any thoughts?? She doesnt wanna get very muscular just somewhat more toned.. 

Dietwise shes eating very similar to wat i cut on just difft quantities.. Carbs meals 1,pre w/o, PWO...Protein split 5ways.. I know shes motivated cuz of the cruise were going on  :Smilie: 

Her split is 51p/32c/17f

----------


## slfmade

You should have your wife join on the site. I was trying to work out something for Browngirl and Slimmer and several others told me to have her set up an account. She did and now she loves this place. She's getting good help and as you know....the more accountability the better. 

Eating all the meals was a problem for BrownGirl at first, but now she's used to it. Well....she used to the old diet. We started IF today and she had a hard time eating 2000 calories in 3 meals....but we're gonna work on that too.

Get er' on board!!!!

----------


## Back In Black

Agree, either get her to join the site or post her diet for a more specific response from the girls. It's prob the pro that's filling her and, if she's not lifting, it's probably too much. Bring her back closer to a 40/40/20 and see how she responds. Cals look good though. No need for BCAA's at this stage, as you say, ease her in gently.

I hate the term 'toned'. What does she think it means?

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh slf i have mentioned it to her.. she hasnt expressd a lot of interest in joining.. i dont think she quite understands how good it actually is  :Smilie:  ill have another talk with her.. 

stem as far as the lifting goes she plans to do it i just know if she takes on too much at one time itll overwhelm her .. we actually have a gym membership that hasnt been getting used and she can go there at lunch so thats what i trying to get her to do instead of doing am fasted cardio then lifting at nite after work.. think that sched will be too burdensome for her.. this way she can lift during lunch at work ... i think this will be more motivating.. 

toned is my term (to her credit).. more muscular than she is but muscle accumulation is not her primary focus.. getting leaner is.. i know the muscle will help as well as the lifting.. i suppose "fit" is a better term  :Wink: 

current diet:1269/156p/99c/26f
meal1:1whole egg
3 egg whites
1/2c oats

meal2:4oz chk breats
broccoli or some green veg

meal3: (pre w/o)
4oz 96%ff burger
broccoli or green beans
4oz yam

meal4: (PWO)
1scoop whey
1/2c oats

meal5:4oz chikn
broc or asparagus or green beans

wasnt sure bout the green beans..they ok?? also still working on her meal timing.. she may have pre w/o in meal 2 and pwo in meal3 and move current meal 2 to meal 4.. still wkn that out..

also shell be doing am fasted cardio(incline walking treadmill 30 mins up to 45mins eventually) 5 days/week.. and after 2 weeks lifting 3days.. wanted input for her lifting.. does a circuit(upperbody) 2days/week and 1 leg day/week sound like a good place to start? with a girl im thrown off a bit  :Smilie: 

ill also be getting slims recipe for oatmeal pancakes.. i realize with her being a woman food choices that she "feels good about" will be a factor  :Wink: 

thx..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i got my am fasted cardio in today.. think ive got some tendonitis or somethign like it in my left ankle.. may have to go to doc tomorrow.. have been limping for 4 days.. i could still do cardio this am just was a bit tricky  :Smilie:  its the very spot necessary to pedal the elliptical.. figures..

----------


## Back In Black

Green beans are ok.

I like your 'fit' term even less! If she wants more muscle and less fat then I would have problem on getting her on a hypertrophy workout immediately. She's a girl, she'll find it extremely difficult to gain a large amount of muscle, especially on a 'cut'. And yeah, food choices/taste tend to be far more important to women.

Bad news on the ankle, getting old chucks up some challenges a little too regularly!

----------


## --->>405<<---

what do u recommend then? that she not lift at all??

----------


## Back In Black

No no, I meant NO problem, sorry. Start her on a 10-12 rep regime, you can work down from there. Start with 2 -3 full body workouts per week. 1 exercise per body part and 3 sets each. 48hrs minimum between lifting workouts.

----------


## tbody66

Oh my no! Lifting is very important for women. The resistence training has multiple health benefits, including increased bone density, normally a problem for the females.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> No no, I meant NO problem, sorry. Start her on a 10-12 rep regime, you can work down from there. Start with 2 -3 full body workouts per week. 1 exercise per body part and 3 sets each. 48hrs minimum between lifting workouts.


ok then so u think she should do legs the same day i suppose since her volume will be less.. like:

superset1:chest:bench
back:bent rows(or machine rows)
bis:BB curl

superset2:squat
tris :Stick Out Tongue: ushdowns
shoulders:seated press(DB)

2supersets x 10-12reps each starting 2days/week for 2 weeks then increase number of supersets to 3 for 2 weeks then increase to 3days/week...??

----------


## Papiriqui

What i'd miss?? lol Sup 405 aka SLIM  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

hey pap! wher ya been man?!!??  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Doesn't have to be supersets, straight sets are fine, particularly at the beginning as she gets used to technique and form. Squats, ham curls, dbell shoulder press, dbell chest press, machine row, bicep curl, rope pushdown. 7 exercises 3 sets each, 1 min rest inbetween. 3 days a week for 4 weeks. Is that doable timewise? Abs can be done on the days inbetween.

Oh yeah, there's Pap!

----------


## tbody66

Hey, pap, where you been?

----------


## --->>405<<---

think its doable  :Smilie:  sounds good.. thx  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i have doc appt today at 1430 for my ankle/tendon (whatever it is)..i tell u since i started this cut ive been to the doc more times than ive been in 5 yrs!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

also i am really starting to like what i see when i look in the mirror.. see stuff ive NEVER seen before on myself  :Smilie:  :Smilie:

----------


## Papiriqui

> also i am really starting to like what i see when i look in the mirror.. see stuff ive NEVER seen before on myself


Yeaaaaah buddy!! and many more stuff to come  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well 2 hrs wasted at doc.. strained ligament or tendon..take some motrin and come back in 4 weeks if not bettr.. boy..glad i went..

----------


## --->>405<<---

had to pay 30bucks for that advice...

----------


## tbody66

Between liking what you are seeing and feeling yourself up in the shower. I'm hoping pap doesn't get a wild hair to try and "visit" you!

----------


## --->>405<<---

LMAO!!!!!.................. now thats funny.. 

pap..im gonna keep my eye on u ....  :Wink:  (maybe i shouldnt wink) LOL

----------


## Papiriqui

> Between liking what you are seeing and feeling yourself up in the shower. I'm hoping pap doesn't get a wild hair to try and "visit" you!


Is that jealousy i am hearing!!? hahaha lmfao!!

----------


## Papiriqui

With friends like you guys!!! Who needs enemies lol  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

lol.....

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i got my am fasted cardio in this morning.. was glad to get it dun.. seems anymore i just dont feel rite if i dont do it... also doing LISS its really just a time consuming thing..theres really no effort involved.. keep HR between 125-135(shoot for 132)...pretty much like watching tv except im moving ... it is nicer than those grueling kill urself cardio sessions i did when i was fat LOL...

----------


## --->>405<<---

well id say i had a decent leg wkout.. tbody i could only do:

squat:
15 x 135
10 x 185
10 x 225
10 x 225
10 x 225

i think my legs(groin area) is overworkd from last weeks leg wkout cuz it was letn me know itd be a bad idea to continue with squats so i took my body's advice..

tried a leg press set...umm no...

did 3 supersets 1 leg squats and 1 leg extensions and calld it a day...

----------


## --->>405<<---

had a good shoulder , arms wkout yesterday.. today looks like its gonna be an "off day".. got bf chekd last nite and it came bak at 9.04% down from 9.36% last week... so ill take it  :Smilie:

----------


## BrownGirl

> had a good shoulder , arms wkout yesterday.. today looks like its gonna be an "off day".. got bf chekd last nite and it came bak at 9.04% down from 9.36% last week... so ill take it



Nice job!!

----------


## slfmade

How are you having your BF measured? I know you've said before but I forgot.

----------


## --->>405<<---

double post

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx BG!  :Smilie: 

SLF my wife does it weekly.. we have Harpenden calipers and she does a 7site body comp test.. 5 of the 7 sites are in single digit mm measurements.. only 2 left in double digits.. i think subscapular and abdominal sites r both 11.. 

abdominal started at 32 i think as well as subscap ..

----------


## slfmade

> thx BG! 
> 
> SLF my wife does it weekly.. we have Harpenden calipers and she does a 7site body comp test.. 5 of the 7 sites are in single digit mm measurements.. only 2 left in double digits.. i think subscapular and abdominal sites r both 11.. 
> 
> abdominal started at 32 i think as well as subscap ..


Great work. That's a big change.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx slf  :Smilie: 

Woke up today and did 45 min fasted cardio.. Super bowl sunday.. Will be a bit of cheating tonite.. My church is havn superbowl party.. Whole pig smoked.. Wifes makn cupcakes  :Smilie:  tomorrow back on track ...

----------


## slfmade

> Thx slf 
> 
> Woke up today and did 45 min fasted cardio.. Super bowl sunday.. Will be a bit of cheating tonite.. My church is havn superbowl party.. Whole pig smoked.. Wifes makn cupcakes  tomorrow back on track ...


That takes me back to good times. The church I used to go to did superbowl parties every year. Fun Times. Maybe I'll go back one day......

----------


## --->>405<<---

Yeh its nice to have a church family where u know people and can hang out and fellowship together.. For me superbowl sunday used to involve large amts of drugs and alcohol.. Inwas telling my wife today while we were at the grocery store all the people there buying beer planning on getting hammered meanwhile im looking forward to the food! LOL.. A nice welcome change  :Smilie: 

I hope when u left the church u were referring to it was cuz u moved to a difft church... if not then i agree.. U need to get back  :Wink:

----------


## slfmade

I actually used to be a youth pastor there until I was forced to leave my position. Since then I've had a bad taste in my mouth in regards to "most" christian people. Don't get me wrong I'm still firm in my beliefs and I know fellowship is key, but unfortunately this cause my "walk" to take a back seat to life. There's a lot of stuff I know I need to change but the whole situation caused me a lot of pain and resentment. Something I need to work on...I know.

----------


## --->>405<<---

By nature im not a big "people person"... I dont believe thats the way the Lord wants me to be.. I try to step out not cuz i want to but cuz i know its wat the Lord wants me to do.. Which ultimately is wat i want as well.. Its not comfortable but i dont think its supposed to be.. Growing never is.. And i have a long way to go ... 

If i were u id be in prayer.. I dont have to (and dont want to  :Smilie: ) tell u wat the Lord thinks about unforgivness and resentment.. It mainly hurts u ... 

Reread wat u typed and i think some of ur answers will be obvious  :Smilie:  i say this from one brother to another ..

----------


## --->>405<<---

am fasted cardio dun.. lunch:chest...

pigged out pretty good last nite.. had smoked pig, chk wings, bbq meatballs, cupcakes, bbq fritos, some cheese and beef dip with chips , and i made sure to throw in a jif xtra crunchy PB&J rite before bed LOL... 

back on the diet again.. i dont think i could go bak to eatn like that all the time anymore..

----------


## Back In Black

Mate, does your Mrs have a snickerdoodle recipe she'd like to share. Not for me, of course!

Keep it going, good to see you back on the horse this morning!

----------


## --->>405<<---

wats a snickerdoodle?  :Smilie:

----------


## Papiriqui

> wats a snickerdoodle?


Yeah what the hell is that!?

----------


## Back In Black

Erm, biscuits/cookies. My Mrs assures me they are an American thing and she wants an alternate recipe to her own. Apparently every home in America has a different recipe!

----------


## --->>405<<---

thats funny.. a biscuit to us is baked in the oven and it fluffs up and is good with butter and jelly or sausage in between.. i prefer all 3!

a cookie is also baked but its eaten alone or with milk.. like chocolate chip cookies, oreo cookies, oatmeal raisin cookies.. 

big diff tween the 2  :Wink: 

let me know which one and i can get u a recipe.. or i can get u a recipe for both! my wife doesnt make homemade biscuits alot but my mom does although shes english so i dont know how difft the recipe will be! LOL...

----------


## jasc

Mmm snickerdoodles.. I miss those..

For those who don't know, It's a peanut butter sugar cookie with a mini snickers inside of it...

----------


## --->>405<<---

had a good chest wkout today.. just patiently waiting for the only stomach fat to disappear.. think im gonna limit my cheats to my usual 2 chikn breasts and maybe a sweet potato cut into chunks and baked wit some salt and evoo for awhile.. i know wat i ate yest may not put weight on me but it def slows the weight coming off down  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Not alot to say.. No cardio this am due to only 5hrs sleep after and 18hr work day.. 1/2 day work today then back and errands followed by couch  :Smilie:

----------


## Papiriqui

Couch sounds good to me!!

----------


## Back In Black

> Mmm snickerdoodles.. I miss those..
> 
> For those who don't know, It's a peanut butter sugar cookie with a mini snickers inside of it...


That's nothing like the recipe my Mrs has! It's a cinnamon sugar coated cookie. There is definitely no snickers (which are also different in the UK) in it. Though I do like your idea!

405 - biscuits over here are like hard cookies. Cookies over here tend to be softer. English muffins over here are, of course, just called muffins! Your biscuits are just bread buns over here! Or baps. Or cobs. Or balms............. Unless your biscuits are like an English scone. What goes in them?

----------


## --->>405<<---

baps, cobs, balms... thats funny  :Smilie:  

flour, lard, milk, salt = biscuits  :Smilie: 

Stem my wife knows snickerdoodles and said shed give ur wife her recipe as well aS biscuit recipe.. Do yall have cake flour? And all purpose flour? I think u need the cake flour for the biscuits cuz it rises...

----------


## Back In Black

Ha ha, yeah but we call them self raising flour and plain flour. PM me them dude and I'll see if I can't get something over to your wife.

Down/upside is I'll have to taste 'em!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ill get them from her when she gets home.. She has all kinds of tasty treats she bakes.. Shes a real baker  :Smilie:  wants to open a bakery.. And she likes to sew.. Startn a sewing business now actually.. Small from home type thing.. 

Hey i have a question for u also.. Thinkn bout maybe takn the queen mary II next yr to london from ny and then hopping a train to paris to catch final tour stage.. How easy u think thatd be to negotiate? Dont the transatlantic ships come in ina place called southampton?? Tat in england rite? How long of a train ride is it from there to paris?

How close is southampton to london? 

Guess i shoukdve said i have several questions for u .. LOL...

----------


## Back In Black

Cool trip! I think you'd need a train to London from Southampton (where Titanic sailed from!) which is about 2 hours. Then a train to Paris in the 'chunnel' is about 3.5 hours I think.

Great news on your Mrs starting a 'cottage industry'. We are starting our own business this year too, soon as we sell our house. 

How was the Superbowl for you?

----------


## --->>405<<---

superbowl was good in the sense i went to my wifes mothers church for a superbowl party.. ate good food and had some good fellowship.. i love to play football but not very interested in watching other people play... the only player i followed was joe montana from notre dame thru san francisco 49ers... after that i pretty much quit watching..

well ive been havn probs waking up for cardio lately.. supposed to get up this am and do it but i dont even remember my wife trying to wake me up.. been sleepn hard lately.. think its cuz i have limited sleep anyways.. will prob get some cardio in at lunch.. on the treadmill...not at an incline though.. gotta give the ole tendon in the ankle a break  :Smilie: 

stem also i went to bed at 2100 last nite and didnt get around to askn wife for recipes but ill get em to ya soon  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Mate, there's no hurry, the sooner she bakes them the sooner I'll have to test them and my cut is slow enough at the minute without cookies! Besides, it sounds like you need your beauty sleep!

Are you doing any later in the day HIIT cardio?

I don't understand what you guys call football. Like rugby, it's a game played by men with odd shaped balls. Good that you enjoyed the social side of it though.

----------


## --->>405<<---

was planning on doing a 3 mile run at steady/moderate pace cuz of my sore tendon... may try HIIT depending how i feel.. sunny and warm here today so ill prob run at the park  :Smilie:  havent been there since i was fat LOL... how would u rate a midday 3mile jog vs a 25min HIIT sprint session in effectiveness?? scale of 1-10 for each.. curious as to ur opinion.. as it relates to fatloss...

----------


## Back In Black

> was planning on doing a 3 mile run at steady/moderate pace cuz of my sore tendon... may try HIIT depending how i feel.. sunny and warm here today so ill prob run at the park  havent been there since i was fat LOL... how would u rate a midday 3mile jog vs a 25min HIIT sprint session in effectiveness?? scale of 1-10 for each.. curious as to ur opinion.. as it relates to fatloss...


Unless you wanna build up some steady state fitness then I would do HIIT. If you ankle will hold up. Pick a couple of points or set out markers about 60meters apart, sprint from one to the other then walk back and repeat. Obviously warm up first.

HIIT wins for fatloss, hands down, but sometimes it's nice just to get out, especially in the warmth, to do a steady state jog. So, if your ankle hurts and/or you are feeling a little tired for being maybe overtrained then go ahead and have a 'nice' run.

BTW temperature where I live at midday was zero degrees celsius!

----------


## --->>405<<---

yuck  :Smilie:  8Celsius low here; 22celsius high today and not a cloud in the sky!  :Smilie:  been like that most of the winter this year..last yr it was cloudy and cold and rainy all winter.. if it hangs on another month we'll have basically had : summer,fall,spring,spring this yr  :Smilie:  good in my book..spring is my favorite season hands down!

----------


## gbrice75

405 is KILLIN' IT!!! 

Did you post a set of posed pics yet... did I miss them? If no, what are you waiting for?  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 405 is KILLIN' IT!!! 
> 
> Did you post a set of posed pics yet... did I miss them? If no, what are you waiting for?


hey GB thx for dropn in man.. yeh theres 2 sets on page 27.. taken a couple days apart.. id been getting alot of crap about my body hair (LOL) so i did a set shaved..its at the bottom of page 27...

still tryin to get these dang abs to pop out!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well stem did a half mile run and then 10 sprints.. man i forgot how tuff those things were  :Smilie:  my little layout is prob 100M long.. maybe a touch longer than that... i like sprints though.. so i got it in good today even though i slept thru this am ...

----------


## --->>405<<---

0430 this am i dragged my lazy butt outta bed and did:

5min warm-up
20 min HIIT
15 min LISS

feeln good about it  :Smilie: 

lunch:LEGS.... hope theyre not as sore as they were last week so i can get my 10 x 10 squats in.. stem i am carb loading every thursday to see how it affects me.. although i totaled up the carbs and they only added up to 147g.. dont know if that constitutes a "carb load"??.. cals = 2450

wat u think bout that stem????????? every 7days(LEG day)

----------


## Back In Black

Is the reasoning that it is because it is leg day? If you are that worried about it, I wouldn't have done HIIT on leg day, before or after. Or is it because the fat loss isn't happening quick enough?

----------


## --->>405<<---

i think its more because after eating 100g carbs 7days/week for 4 months im looking for a good excuse to eat more carbs LOL.. to be honest LOL... i suppose i shouldnt huh?

----------


## --->>405<<---

im pretty happy with how i look now.. could lose a little more fat in the chest and the abs but other than that im good.. i look smooth in the mirror now... have a decent line that u can see when i stand kind of at an angle in the mirror that i guess is my lat.. love handles pretty much gone... chest has decent shape.. basically a thin layer of fat over the abs mainly...

----------


## Back In Black

There are various ways of manipulating carbs and calories to suit your training and goals. If you feel you *need* a change rather than just want a change then by all means, try it out. You can adjust protein down if you like to account for the increased carbs. If you don't adjust the protein and then, on a seperate day, are having a cheat meal, that'll be 2 days where your cals exceed what they are now, and not all good cals. 

You could switch to a real basic carb cycling routine where you double your carbs 2 days a week, either seperate or concurrent days. If you do this I would recommend you make sure you train on the carb load days.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> There are various ways of manipulating carbs and calories to suit your training and goals. If you feel you *need* a change rather than just want a change then by all means, try it out. You can adjust protein down if you like to account for the increased carbs. If you don't adjust the protein and then, on a seperate day, are having a cheat meal, that'll be 2 days where your cals exceed what they are now, and not all good cals. 
> 
> *You could switch to a real basic carb cycling routine where you double your carbs 2 days a week*, either seperate or concurrent days. If you do this I would recommend you make sure you train on the carb load days.


if i did this would i have only green veggies 2 other days to compensate? and then have 3 days where im at 100g??

----------


## Back In Black

You don't have to but that is another way of doing it. Partly depends what fits into your schedule. I've never really ran a carb cycling diet. Not for 20 years anyway and I did it wrong!

Check back in your thread for what Gbrice does or Jimmyinkedup posted something recently, I'll see if I can't find it and post the link.

----------


## Back In Black

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...=#.TyFyI5huHHg

----------


## --->>405<<---

Hey SteM thx man  :Smilie:  why dont u carb cycle? No need? I put a sched togeth and posted it on GBs ask thread... 

Had good leg day:
5min warm-up on bike(1st)
Squat:
10 x 135
10 x185
10 x 225
10 x 225
10 x 225
10 x 225
10 x 225
10 x 225
10 x 225
10 x 225
10 x 225
10 x 225

Dun...

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## Back In Black

Because I've always been happy with my results on a reduced carb diet. I will try it one day soon though, see how it works for me.

How was legs after your morning HIIT session?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Shoot it went well!! I actually coulda dun 275lbs for severAl sets but i have a slightly pulled groin muscle.. Its funny how u dont realize how many difft muscles and tendons and stuff u use to do stuff  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well got my cardIo dun.. And thats it for today... Gonna put some thought into this carb cycle thing today..

Thinking:
Mon: high (200g) chest 
Tue: zero (35g from veg) back
Wed: zero (35g from veg) cardio
Thu: high (200g) legs
Fri: low (100g) shoulders, arms
Sat: low (100g) cardio
Sun: low (100g) off

Unsure about incorporating a cheat meal in.. I enjoy my cheat which is usually 2 chk breasts grilled skin on and removed after cooking.. Alot of ketchup (i can get reduced sugar) and fries baked (thinking of switching to sweet potato fries made from real sweet potato or reg fries made from reg potato baked in oven) 

Any opinions would be aPpreciated.. SteM? I think u suggested i reduce protein on high carb days down to compensate for cals.. If so instead of 300g pro id eat 200g pro?? But i was wondering if it wouldnt even out leavn it the same since ill be eating less cals on zero carb days?? 

Am a bit concerned about hunger on zero carb days.. If i add veggies to meals that usually have oats or yams then my carb count will go up.. If i dont ill prob be hungry all day.. I dont like being hungry  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Wat if on zero carb days i have 400g protein ?? And on 200g carb days i have 200g protein?? This is a little confusing  :Wink:

----------


## Back In Black

Mate, I think if you are gonna do a full no, low and high carb cycle, keep your protein the same every day, otherwise it ends up being a carb and protein cycle. The idea is that you'll be undereating some days and aovereating others.

Don't worry about the hunger, plenty of fibre should help, besides on a reduced calorie diet your body should tell you it's hungry as it adapts to the new eating plan!

----------


## Back In Black

Anyhow, more importantly, where's my snickerdoodle recipe, ha ha!

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL......... ^^took a pic of this message and sent it to my wife  :Smilie:  ill try and get it soon  :Smilie:  by the end of the weekend...

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok i think i have my plan for this carb cycle.. diet looks pretty similar to my current diet:

HIGH CARB DAYS(MON,THU- CHEST,LEGS):
2497CALS 307g pro/ 205g carb/ 46g fat

(0700) meal1: 1whole egg, 5whites, 3oz burger, 3/4C oats, 2tsp sugar free jam

(1030) meal2: (pre w/o) 5oz chikn, 8oz yam, 2C broccoli

NOON LIFT

(1300) meal3: PWO: 2scoops whey, 3/4C oats

(1430) meal4: 6oz burger, 2C broccoli, 4oz yam

(1800) meal5: 5oz chikn, asparagus (10 spears)

(2030) meal6: 5oz chikn, 1C cottage cheese

low carb total macros:2128cals/ 298Pro/ 91Carb/ 55Fat

zero carb total macros:1849cals/ 290Pro/ 34Carb/ 52Fat

low carb days will reduce carbs in meals 1,2,3, (oats to 1/4c and yam to 4oz) and eliminate carb in meal 4 

zero carb days will eliminate all carbs except fibrous veggies and maybe cottage cheese (would like some input there) of which i will prob add veggies to breakfast and pwo... 

both low carb and zero carb days ill prob add back in my natty pb to meal 6... i eliminated it on high carb days...

feedback welcome  :Smilie:  thx

----------


## --->>405<<---

well got my am fasted cardio in today..

5min warmup
20 min HIIT
5min moderate(160BPM HR)
10min LISS (132BPM HR)

----------


## --->>405<<---

got it in good today on shoulders and arms.. managed to get 205lbs on closegrip bench for 2 sets of 6 reps which is good for me cuz my shoulder issue.. the abs seem to be inching out ever so slightly week by week..  :Smilie:  maybe someday ill get a critique for my carb cycle i plan on startn monday...\

tonite im havn my 2 chikn breast, fries baked in the oven cheat.. this time im gonna use reduced sugar ketchup since i use like 8oz of it LOL...

----------


## slfmade

What kind of ab routine are you doing? I'm doing crunches and leg lifts, but I'm not really feeling it anywhere in my oblique areas.

I'm lucky that I've NEVER liked Ketchup....always prefered brown mustard on my fries, etc. Good for dieting cause I can pour all I want on and be go to go!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

not doing any ab routine as of now.. prob need to start though since my bf is lower  :Smilie: ketchup is a less carb/calorie substitute to my true love...

*BBQ SAUCE!!!]*

----------


## GirlyGymRat

stopping in and see you are still doing this!!!

----------


## slfmade

> not doing any ab routine as of now.. prob need to start though since my bf is lower ketchup is a less carb/calorie substitute to my true love...
> 
> *BBQ SAUCE!!!]*


If you like spicy at all....Give Famous Daves "Devil's Spit" BBQ sauce I try one of these days. FREAKIN FANTASTIC. Best sauce ever in my Opinion.

----------


## Back In Black

I would not lift on a zero carb day, only mod or high. So readjust your lifting days or move about your low/zero days.

And zero days should just be fibrous carbs, no sugar (lactose) so you'll need to sub your cott chs for something else on those days.

----------


## Back In Black

And start training those abs!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ok cool thx man! Ill make the necessary adjustments.. Will have to switch my lift days around.. I read in GB's Ask thread when he carb cycles he does:
1 high
3 zero
3 low

Wondering if 2 high days will be ok for me since im keeping weekly carbs at 700g or if i should consider changing it? 

Also curious if i should shoot for 3 zero carb days and if so 3 in a row? 

If i stay with 2 high days i could increase the carbs those days to 250g and have 3 zero days and 2 low days at 100g?

Sat: high(250g) Legs
Sun: zero- off
Mon: zero- cardio
Tue: low(100g) back
Wed: high(250g) chest
Thu: zero- cardio
Fri: low(100g) shoulders, arms

----------


## Back In Black

Well, as you know I haven't personally cycled. I know GB works with Nark, the Godfather of diet. On that basis, I'd maybe go with the 1 high and split the other 6 days low/zero. Or use the search function, there will be plenty of ideas.

Ultimately one method will work best for you and you'll only know after experimenting but I think I would prefer the one high day only.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Yeh i suppose ur rite .. Would that change my low carb day macro? If im consuming 100g/day(700/week) now and i must note bf chek this am:8.57%  :Smilie:  from 9.04 last week .. 

U know SteM maybe im just being stupid.. It seems i get this way periodically as u prob recall.. My bf% is still dropping every week.. Maybe i should just keep things as they are.. I mean really.. 0.5% each week (or close) is fantastic.. Abs r startn to show when flexed.. 4 weeks from now at this rate ill be at 6.57% which should prob put me close to 10% in all actuality.. Why would i wanna change.. Maybe i wait on GB and get a proper planned carb cycle ironed out in the event my progress stops before im happy otherwise be grateful this thing keeps going!! 

What u think?  :Smilie: 

Also im with wife today = snickerdoodle recipe for u  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Well, if we go back to page 1 or 2 of this thread you wanted to swap then. But didn't. ANd now you look amazing. Honestly? If it's still working and you still feel the same (or more) motivation, then stick with it. If the progress stops or you are feeling great urges to cheat, then change it up.

Must be nearly time for more pics?

Oh, and train those abs and they'll start popping out more.

----------


## slfmade

If it ain't broke.......

----------


## --->>405<<---

SteM ill pm u both recipes tomorrow  :Smilie:  when i have my laptop.. By the time u read this itll prob be tomorrow for u  :Smilie: 

Had a good off day.. Pretty busy though.. Lookn forward to fasted am HIIT and chest tomorrow.. Will remain on current diet for now ... Also i need to incorporate ab work i suppose.. SteM would it help them pop out better doing bodyweight ab work or weighted ab work? High weight low rep or low weight high rep?? Nite yall  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Yep, it's already tomorrow/today here and I've done my shift at work already!

The thing with abs exercise is that you just have to do them right. If you go weighted, you will likely 'cheat' to do the reps. Though I consider weighted ab work to be superior for getting to see the abs I would work on your tecjhnique first. Make sure you are feeling the contraction and on a basic crunch, that you squeeze the abs so they lift you off the floor. Not momentum and not jerking upwards. Try a few things, see what feels best, then start adding weight. I wouldn't drop below 10 reps.

BTW I HATE training abs.

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh i hate training them too! i do enjoy the weighted cable crunch where ur on ur knees in front of the tricep pushdown machine and u put the ropes on it and hold onto the ropes and crunch downward.. figd id do that with a straight set and then a set twisting to the sides..and the repeat for like 3 sets of each and then also superset each one of those sets with hanging knees but do them with the legs straight out as opposed to bent??

woke up late this am but got in HIIT anyways.. total of 25mins with 2 min warmup and 13 sets of 30sec all out 60-90sec slow repeat and then 2 min cooldown...

ready for chest at lunch... really starting to like wat i see in the mirror... i believe i currently am as lean now at 37 as ive ever been in my whole life! took waist measurement this am (ive always been big waisted) at the biggest point around the love handle area(which are almost gone)and over the belly button and it was 34.5" .. when i started this cut it was 42"

weight still 190lbs.. been that way for 2 months!

----------


## Back In Black

Mate, brilliant news, is the Mrs liking the new svelte you? 

Re: hanging leg raises - overrated IMO. Too much hip flexor involvement partic with straight legs. The way I do them is hang, knees bent and thighs paralel to the floor. That is your start and finish point. Crunch up from that position and back down to it. It's a small movement and against what most people do/recommend but try it and see! Cable crunches are my faves for upper abs, like you describe. Just make sure the weight isn't too heavy!

----------


## --->>405<<---

oh yeh she def does  :Smilie:  shes doing the diet as well and her bf is dropping.. i have to remember she is not me and i have a tendency to want to push her like i would myself.. i havent done so but it can be tuff when she doesnt seem as driven as i think she should be LOL.. she hasnt done any lifting yet and i suspect is not being very diligent with her cardio either.. she does it after i leave for work.. the way i see it why diet and deprive urself of the good tasting food if ur not gonna hit the workouts as hard as u can.. 

speaking for myself the diet is fairly routine at this point.. mainly i just crave food .. it doesnt really matter what it tastes like anymore.. i used to have to have condiments on all my meat but now i simply enjoy eating what i know is good for me.. its nice being thin... being able to put on clothes that fit snugly and not having to worry about sucking in my gut or whether or not i look fat but to the contrary having confidence in the fact that snug fitting clothes actually make me look better than baggy ones  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

I remember a supermodel once saying 'thin is better than cake'.

And most the time, it is!

----------


## --->>405<<---

stem u have a PM

----------


## Back In Black

back atcha!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i had a 1300 start at work so i slept in today and woke up at 1000 ... got in my 45mins am fasted LISS.. will do back at 1800.. SteM up to now my refeeds have been about 200g carbs.. do u think i should increase that to 300g?? learning a little about leptin .. also read u could use simple carbs during a refeed day.. not a lot of them but some.. like maybe peanut butter and jelly sandwiches on wheat bread??  :Wink:  id prob still use my sugar free jam but id use jif extra crunchy peanut butter (my favorite) say 2 sandwiches?? say pre w/o on LEG DAY??


***id like to note here lately ive been eating 1 pb and j sammich on my cheat meal day on top of my cheat meal..

----------


## Papiriqui

> well i had a 1300 start at work so i slept in today and woke up at 1000 ... got in my 45mins am fasted LISS.. will do back at 1800.. SteM up to now my refeeds have been about 200g carbs.. do u think i should increase that to 300g?? learning a little about leptin .. also read u could use simple carbs during a refeed day.. not a lot of them but some.. like maybe peanut butter and jelly sandwiches on wheat bread??  id prob still use my sugar free jam but id use jif extra crunchy peanut butter (my favorite) say 2 sandwiches?? say pre w/o on LEG DAY??
> 
> ***id like to note here lately ive been eating 1 pb and j sammich on my cheat meal day on top of my cheat meal..


Lol on the cheat meal on top of the cheat meal!!! Hey remember if it aint broken, dont fix it. If you still keep lookin leaner and scale keeps showing progress continue doing what your doing IMO  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL yeh pap i tell u i crave xtra crunchy jif and jelly on bread more than anything .. i usually eat it while laying in bed rite before i go to sleep with about 12oz milk!

----------


## --->>405<<---

my cheat meal is 2 chicken breasts grilled with skin on and then removed with reduced sugar ketchup and some baked fries.. so its pretty not bad for a cheat.. i fig 2 hrs later i can still have a pb and J  :Smilie:

----------


## Papiriqui

> LOL yeh pap i tell u i crave xtra crunchy jif and jelly on bread more than anything .. i usually eat it while laying in bed rite before i go to sleep with about 12oz milk!


Hahaha niceeee

----------


## Back In Black

> well i had a 1300 start at work so i slept in today and woke up at 1000 ... got in my 45mins am fasted LISS.. will do back at 1800.. SteM up to now my refeeds have been about 200g carbs.. do u think i should increase that to 300g?? learning a little about leptin .. also read u could use simple carbs during a refeed day.. not a lot of them but some.. like maybe peanut butter and jelly sandwiches on wheat bread??  id prob still use my sugar free jam but id use jif extra crunchy peanut butter (my favorite) say 2 sandwiches?? say pre w/o on LEG DAY??
> 
> 
> ***id like to note here lately ive been eating 1 pb and j sammich on my cheat meal day on top of my cheat meal..


Does the extra PB and J (what the fvck is jelly anyway?) fit in with your macro's for the day? 

And bread as a pre workout carb source? Doesn't work for me, I have the worst workouts after bread, wheat or not.

When are pics again?

----------


## baseline_9

> Does the extra PB and J (*what the fvck is jelly anyway*?) fit in with your macro's for the day? 
> 
> And bread as a pre workout carb source? Doesn't work for me, I have the worst workouts after bread, wheat or not.
> 
> When are pics again?


Its Jam I think....

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Does the extra PB and J (what the fvck is jelly anyway?) fit in with your macro's for the day? 
> 
> And bread as a pre workout carb source? Doesn't work for me, I have the worst workouts after bread, wheat or not.
> 
> When are pics again?


well up to now i have been eating the pb and j on my cheat meal day.. on that day ill eat meal 1, 2, 3, 4 and thats it then i have 2 chik breasts and fries with low sugar ketchup and about 2 hrs later i have a pb and j and glass of milk.. dont count macros that day.. fig skipping last 2 meals which is prob about 700cals helps out but i just say screw it on the calorie counting.. still drop fat.. 

what i was askn though is if on my refeed day (a difft day from cheat day) if i could/should raise carbs to 300g and if i can eat 2 pb and j's that day which will eliminate the pb and j on my cheat day>> LOL and yes i realize i go over on cals 2 days out of 7... LOL but im still losing fat..

i can drop the fries on my cheat day and make fries out of a yam and the ketchup i use had about 15g sugar and thats it...

id also like to note even at 300g carbs id be at maintenance on refeed day and im prob under maintenance on cheat day just over my typical deficit..

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh jelly is jam without the fruit chunks in it.. i actually eat jam/preserves just call it jelly LOL

----------


## Back In Black

So, if on your refeed day, your macro's allow for it, then yeah why not. Only your results will tell you if it's an issue or not. I'd still try and keep the fat content of any carb laden meal down to about 10g. May mean you get to eat 2 sandwiches but at different meals each one! Your refeed is a carb refeed, remember.

And jelly is something we put in trifle! Not the same as your jelly! You may call that jello?!

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok gotcha.. gonna be tuff to eat peanut butter of any amt on a sammich and be below 10g fat.. about 1tbsp .. my main other question is the amt of carbs i refeed with.. ive actually been refeeding with prob 175g carbs.. do u think 300g would be better ?? a few things i read put carb refeeds higher than that in the 400-600g range.. something like 3-7g per lb of lbm... ive got about 170lbs lbm... so thatd be 1.76g carb per lb of lbm.. ?? thanx buddy  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

No harm in trying different levels, maybe start at 240-260g and see how you go. I've done a keto diet before and I absolutely despised the carb load day of only 400g. 

All I will say is this. Don't try to over engineer changes to a regime that is still working great gains (losses) for you. You have been cutting a long time, I know, and you are probably bored of it a little by now. Even if you took a week at 180g carbs per day, then get back on it as it is, that may help!?

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh i think ur rite.. im bored.. i didnt realize how much i like to eat carbs either  :Smilie:  seems most of the stuff i wish i could eat i can t eat not because of the fat but because of the sugar! whole wheat bread (PB and J's) cereal, fruit, milk, crackers, crisps, bbq sauce, pasta, a bigger serving of oats than 1/4cup at a time.. LOL.. thats like 2 bites for me..

180g carbs for a week huh?? hmm .. interesting... i suppose id be concerned that that would slow my progress down more than a day with 300g carbs.. im not into slowing progress...

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## Back In Black

Mate, adjust your other macro's to suit. You know my macro's at a similar cal content to yours when cutting are 

Carbs - 175g (3x50g complex remainder from veggies)
Pro - 250g
Fat - 45g

Thats about 2100 cals.

Try it for a week if you like, it shouldn't send you backwards.

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok ill try that out next week .. prob be a nice change.. i suppose im willing to give up the pb for a week to hit 45g fat... ill see how it works out .. maybe still can have a 16g spoonful instead of 32g... u know its amazing how much substance carbs add to a meal.. u really notice it when u dont eat them for an extended period.. 

today is daughters birthday so were going to the japanese restaurant for dinner per her request.. looks like stir fry food with fried rice on my agenda tonite! obviously a cheat meal.. ill try to take it easy with the shrimp sauce.. that stuff is like sex in a bottle!! LOL

----------


## Papiriqui

> ok ill try that out next week .. prob be a nice change.. i suppose im willing to give up the pb for a week to hit 45g fat... ill see how it works out .. maybe still can have a 16g spoonful instead of 32g... u know its amazing how much substance carbs add to a meal.. u really notice it when u dont eat them for an extended period..
> 
> today is daughters birthday so were going to the japanese restaurant for dinner per her request.. looks like stir fry food with fried rice on my agenda tonite! obviously a cheat meal.. ill try to take it easy with the shrimp sauce.. that stuff is like sex in a bottle!! LOL


Sex in a bottle!! LMFAO

----------


## gbrice75

> u know its amazing how much substance carbs add to a meal.. u really notice it when u dont eat them for an extended period..


Totally! In another month i'll be going back to my cut diet which has me eating zero starchy carbs for 3 days, and for 3 other days only 3 meals will contain them. Suffice it to say i'll be eating a LOT of plain old protein... gonna be a tough adjustment after slamming 75g carbs in every meal including before bed!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ok SteM ive been thinking.. (uh oh)  :Smilie:  yeh i prob shouldnt do that.. This i wat im thinking.. I think boredom is a big part of my prob.. My diet and workout has lost its challenge.. Its just routine.. And while my bf keeps dropping its not producing what im looking for (ripped abs)... So i figd id give it another week or so and if i dont start seeing them i need a chAnge.. Anything!! 

Ive got 73 days from today to be ready for this cruise.. I look ok but i wanna be cut man! Cut! Ill go extreme hardcore.. Need some guidAnce.. Weightlifting wise i think im ok i can do the workout u gave me in the beginning which i liked .. What i need is the maniac's diet and cardio programme to get this shit off me dude!! 

I need to be challenged and hurting and feeling like what im doin is getn it dun.. I can do 305pro 101carbs 56 fat with 45min am cardio in my sleep!! 

This way ill know i did everything i can do.. Rite now i feel like im on cruise control doing 5 mph over the limit.. I wanna be on the opposite side of the road with the pedal to the floor and a shotgun in my lap looking out for the cops!!!

Any suggestions???

----------


## Back In Black

Actually mate, if you can do all that in your sleep, then that is perfect. As boring as it may be, you get results every week. Most people don't get that. Most people fail on their diets because they can't stick to it.

Seriously, if you really feel th eneed to change because you are gonna purge big time, then do the carb thing I suggested for a week. If not, stay on man, even comp bodybuilders worry when getting ready for comps, they just stick with it and look how they look at the end of the day.

Next cut will be so much easier, because you won't be as overweight at the start!

----------


## --->>405<<---

When u say "purge big time" what do u mean? Eat a bunch of junk?? Thats not how i feel.. I dont feel like im doing enuff...

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## Back In Black

You are doing just right. The last bit is really tough especially if you haven't been there before/for a long time.

----------


## --->>405<<---

The voice of reason  :Smilie:  thx man ..

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## --->>405<<---

well daughter's birthday is behind now.. tried to stay as healthy as i could.. its funny how by nature whenever we have anything celebratory or really gather in any way our tendency is to eat food thats really bad for us...

lunch:legs

----------


## --->>405<<---

had a good leg day today.. still pluggin away..

squat:
1. 10 x 135
2. 10 x 185
3. 10 x 225
4. 10 x 225
5. 10 x 225
6. 10 x 275
7. 10 x 275
8. 10 x 275
9. 10 x 275
10. 10 x 315
11. 10 x 315
12. 10 x 275

DUN DUDE..

----------


## --->>405<<---

WEll i have been having a "fat day" today.. At roughly 12% bf i didnt think that was possible LOL.. im here to tell ya *IT IS!!!!*

Maybe cuz of the fried rice and cake and stirfried ribeye i had last nite LOL.. Either way i did 30 mins HIIT when i got home from work.. Yes stem after doing legs  :Smilie:  ramped it up a bit too.. Usually i do 15 sets at level 5 for 30 secs and level 3 for 90 secs... 

Today i did level 6 for 30 secs level 3 for 60 secs.. And i did 16 sets.. Pretty tuff.. I think it equalized how it was in the beginning  :Smilie:  

Needless to say i should sleep well tonite..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i got it dun today in the am.. little prob getn outta bed.. gives new meaning to the statement i can do am fasted cardio in my sleep huh stem?  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well bed time is here.. 0430 fasted HIIT comes quik.. Btw im still feeling fat.. Although i didnt in the am.. Funny how that works.. Wonder if anyone else is like that.. Woukd be nice to feel as thin in the pm as i do in the am  :Smilie:  see yall tomorrow..

----------


## slfmade

> Well bed time is here.. 0430 fasted HIIT comes quik.. Btw im still feeling fat.. Although i didnt in the am.. Funny how that works.. *Wonder if anyone else is like that*.. Woukd be nice to feel as thin in the pm as i do in the am  see yall tomorrow..


Hell Yes. I think I look like Hell at night especially on my lift days when I'm stuffing three 1000+ calories meals down my throat in a 6-8 hour period. I almost look pregnant! So you're not alone.

Also....Somehow on Friday Nights I'll go to bed at say 192lbs and wake up at 185lbs!!! How the Hell does that happen??? I'm not going #2 before I weigh in...I pee when I wake up but I know I'm not losing 7lbs by draining my bladder. It's weird!

How are you liking fasted HIIT? I know people say you won't go catabolic doing HIIT fasted, but I've still been doing fasted LIC just to be on the safe side. What's been your experience and how long have you been doing it this way?

----------


## --->>405<<---

funny slf yeh similar to me.. i dont fluctuate that much in lbs though.. 

as far as fasted HIIT.. no prob losing lbm to this point..ive been doing it for about a month i guess.. its off and on though.. i usually dont do it 2 days in a row.. i tell u its tuff going from a dead sleep to HIIT in about 15mins time LOL.. makes it harder to get out of bed especially when its 0430(like today) knowing once my feet hit the floor what i have to do...

on a side note im thinking starting monday im gonna cut out the soy sauce.. curious as to if my bf% is low enuff for it to affect me now?? SteM ?? ive been feeling kinda "jiggly" here in the last few days. mainly since i went out to dinner... jiggly is not a good feeling LOL.. for the past month ive been eating soy sauce on everything..literally just about.. i use reduced sodium but i know its still got a ton.. meal 2 i have chikn and broccoli.. both cookd in soy sauce .. meal 4, and meal 5 are the same.. so 3 out of 6 meals... plus in meal 6 i have a chikn breast thats been cookd in soy sauce so 4 out of 6 meals.. and theres always some gravy type stuff left when i finish and i drink that LOL.. 
kg
so basically im thinking of eliminating it and seeing if the jiggly feeling goes away.. not to mention its not healthy to have that much salt.. it sure makes the food taste better though..

this am i did 35mins fasted cardio. 
3min warmup
16 sets 30sec/60sec 
7 mins (or so) with HR bout 156 BPM.. 

so i got it in this am... lunch: shoulders

oh yeh slf my starting LBM was 75.49kg at 213lbs
my current LBM is 77.97kg at 189lbs

----------


## --->>405<<---

had a decent shoulder and arm wkout today.. also started doing abs .. getn a little frustrated cuz im tryin to get this last 5-10lbs fat off and its going *SLOW MAN* took a couple photos trying to see if abs r comin in better and i lookd fatter than i did 10 days ago! im sure it was cuz i was tryin to flex them difft than i usually do but still! will be interested to see bf% chek tomorrow... also drank 140oz water today to try to get rid of this water retention if thats what it is  :Smilie:

----------


## slfmade

Have you ever thought about running some ECA or Clen ? It works really well for the guys trying to get off that last little bit!

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh ive actually been considering it.. funny u mention it.. i did the EC stack a few yrs ago and droppd decent weight then..i did not get as lean as i already am now so being here and starting it mite be the ticket! 

i was kinda hesitant to use the aspirin due to blood thinning deal.. what is it: 25mg ephedrine/ 200mg caffeine/ and how much aspirin? 

dont u start with one stack per day and do that for like 2 or 3 days then go to 2 stacks per day and then possibly 3 per day for 2 weeks then take 2 weeks off or something like that?

also what does the aspirin do again? something to do with a thermogenic pathway or something?

----------


## --->>405<<---

WEll weekly bf% i didnt like the results..last week i was 8.57% and this week im 8.65% .. obviously its a negligible difference but its not a drop.. Also last week i weighed 190lbs and this week i weigh 187lbs.. 

Lbm last week: 173.73lbs
Lbm this week: 170.83lbs

Now im pretty sure i didnt lose 3lbs lbm in one week either.. I hate the idea of havn to wait another week to see if i need to adjust anything.. I have been hungry alot more often this week... Syrength has been ok.. No drop there.. Actually an increase in chest and legs...

I HATE feeling like ive stagnated!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

how do you measure the bf% to such exact numbers? do you have a special tool just for body fat. I have a scale that calculates it but mine is not that accurate. 

the trainer at the gym had a hand held device. told me to tighten and flex every muscle in my body and it spit out a percentage. Seemed kindof lame to me.....

----------


## GirlyGymRat

oh, and cudos on getting into the 8's naturally. a hugh accomplishment!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx ggr.. We have calipers and my wife cheks me every sunday.. They give u a mm measurement and then u plug those in online along with ur weight and it tells u ur bf%.. 

If ur gonna get sum and have the money id get harpenden calipers.. Theyre bout 300-400$ but the best for accuracy.. Of course u gotta have someone who knows how to do it too  :Smilie:  not sure if im truly that low (prob not) but it def tracks losses and gains.. When i started 5 months ago i was 21.87%  :Smilie:

----------


## slfmade

> yeh ive actually been considering it.. funny u mention it.. i did the EC stack a few yrs ago and droppd decent weight then..i did not get as lean as i already am now so being here and starting it mite be the ticket! 
> 
> i was kinda hesitant to use the aspirin due to blood thinning deal.. what is it: 25mg ephedrine/ 200mg caffeine/ and how much aspirin? 
> 
> dont u start with one stack per day and do that for like 2 or 3 days then go to 2 stacks per day and then possibly 3 per day for 2 weeks then take 2 weeks off or something like that?
> 
> also what does the aspirin do again? something to do with a thermogenic pathway or something?


As for the breakdown...You're correct. 25mg eph, 200mg caff, and it's (if I'm not mistaken) 90mg of asprin. I've always just used the baby asprin. As for what the asprin does....your guess is as good as mine. I've never really understood the reason behind, but I've never been to concerned with taking 1-3 baby asprin per day. I figure...a guy smarter than myself figured out that for whatever reason, asprin helps the process, so that's what I do.

That being said. I know many guys say it's useless.

I've never used ECA for weight loss, but I know that most that do use it 3 times a day. I've only ever used it as a pre workout boost, and it's one hell of a boost. I feel like I'm on crack for 3-4 hours after taking it.

Since I've never used it for weight loss I can't tell you if ECA or clen is better; however, I personally like the way clen makes me feel better.

I compare ECA to (as said before) being on crack for 3 hours and my heart feels like I've been sprinting for the same amount of time. Clen on the other hand seems much milder but last longer. So for me it's like jogging all day long. Clen still makes me a bit jittery, but I like that.

At the end of the day I feel (and I have no medical basis for this statment) that jogging for 16 hours it better than sprinting for 3 hours 2-3 times a day. Again this is the way I feel, and could be very different for you.

As far as time on.....I know someone recently said that ECA can be used for something like 20weeks straight or something like that. Where as clen is to be ran 2 weeks on 2 weeks off unless you add some Keto to the mix to upregulate your B2R's.

I would really do some research on which might be better for you. I know SGT. Hartman is big fan of ECA....he might have the scientific knowledge behind ECA that I just don't have. If you have any questions about clen...I can help with that.

I will say that I think either could help you a lot. I give a lot of guys shit on here for taking stuff to early, but I think at your current bodyfat...it would help quite a bit in getting off that last little bit of fat.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

Wow! I didn't realize you were in the low 20s just 5 months ago. That is huge considering you started in Oct right before all the "food holidays". 

The last time I was measured with calibers was in April. I thought it was more accurate then that hand held device. Of course it was lower, which is why I liked the calibers better...LOL!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

SteM i put togethr a carb cycle.. Funny how i do this on the weekend when i have time to think and no one's around lol.. But ive gotta get approval from my mentor  :Wink:  so here it is...

Sun: high (off) 2750cals/306p/252c/46f

Mon: mod (chest) 2259cals/291p/154c/41f

Tue: mod (back) same as above

Wed: mod (legs) same as above

Thu: low (cardio) 1877cals/297p/50c/37f

Fri: low (shoulders,arms) same as above

Sat: low (cardio) same as above

On low days all carbs come from broccoli and asparagus only! I eliminated cottage cheese on low days.. Natty pb has been eliminated alltogether.. 

Basic moderate diet: 2259/291p/154c/41f

1. 1whole egg, 5 whites, 1/2cup oats, sug free jam

2. (pre w/o) 5oz chk, 4 oz yam, 255g broc

3. (PWO) 2scoops whey, 1/2cup oats, sug free jam

4. 6oz burger, 255g broc

5. 5oz chk, 10spears aspar

6. 5oz chk, 255g broc, 1 cup cott cheese

Low carb day: 1877/297p/50c/37f

1. 1whole egg, 5whites, 3oz burger

2. 6oz chk, 255g broc

3. 2scoops whey

4. 6oz burger, 255g broc

5. 6oz chk, 10aspar spears

6. 6oz chk, 255g broc

High carb day: 2750/306p/252c/46f

1. 1whole egg, 5whites, 1cup oats, 1 sug free jam

2. 5oz chk, 5oz yam, 255g broc

3. 2scoops whey, 1cup oats, 1serv sug free jam

4. 6oz burger, 5oz yam, 255g broc

5. 5oz chk, 10 aspar spears

6. 5oz chk, 1cup cott cheese, 255g broc

Am fasted cardio mon-sat: some interval some steady state.. Prob alternate days.. 45 mins everyday .. On interval day ill do 32mins intervals at 30/60 fast/slow with warmup and 10mins moderate at the end.. 

On low carb days ill have 10g bcaas prior to cardio, after cardio, in the afternoon... 

Every other day ill just have bcaas prior to cardio.. Plan on going at least 14 days without deviation (cheat) maybe longer...

I suppose if need be i could do a 3 day split but itd be mon, tue, wed getting all my lifting dun then.. Maybe:

Mon: chest, bis
Tue: back, shoulders
Wed: legs, tris

This way all my lifting is dun on days where im eatn carbs.. ??

----------


## Back In Black

Mate, I have some catch up to do on your thread which I can't do til later. Don't worry I haven't forsaken you!

----------


## gbrice75

Your diet looks pretty good to me - admittedly I glanced it over and didn't go through with a fine toothed comb (isn't that what Stem is for??!!  :Wink:  ) - as stated in my thread, the macro split is VERY similar to what I cut on last summer, and will be starting again in a month. 

Re: ECA - I ran ECA and T3 for the first 2 months of my cut. I wouldn't be worried much about the aspirin; we're talking about a tiny amount, 3x daily.

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ good deal thx man  :Smilie:  im hopin SteM has the time to chek out my plan  :Wink:  i know he doesnt carb cycle (obviously cuz he doesnt have to).. I on the other hand feel my progression has slowed.. Im hoping this will kick it back in as well as motivate my dedication.. Ive become bored.. The refeed every 7 days and the xtra 50g carbs mon-wed will be motivation to make it thru the low carb days which r gonna add a challenge to the situation  :Smilie:  which i like.. 

Well im off work today.. Just finished fasted intervals.. Were tuff.. Did:

5min warmup
18 sets 30/60 fast/slow 
13mins moderate (150bpm)
2min cooldown

Was a tuff but good workout.. Just finished breakfast.. Gonna give in 1 1/2 hrs and have pre w/o meal and go do chest..

----------


## gbrice75

> * The refeed every 7 days and the xtra 50g carbs mon-wed will be motivation* to make it thru the low carb days which r gonna add a challenge to the situation  which i like..


Trust me, you will most definitely look forward to those carb days... especially that refeed day... it's like a God-send!!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well just finished chest and abs.. had a good workout  :Smilie:  figd id post a couple pics since this will document where im at startn this carb cycle.. the old stubborn abs r startn to try to pop thru  :Smilie:  comments or suggestions welcome ...

----------


## BrownGirl

Good job! Those abs sure are starting to show!

----------


## Papiriqui

> Good job! Those abs sure are starting to show!


X2^^ Definitely seeing those abs and beginning to feel some jealousy lol  :Wink:  Keep up the great work bud!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx bg and pap  :Smilie: 

Man getn up and doin cardio today was a chore.. Got it dun nonetheless... It was also kinda tuff.. Think my E2 is low.. Gonna try and get bloodwork thursday...

----------


## Back In Black

Bollocks. You look better than me now :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL.. im not sure i believe u SteM! did u get a chance to look over my carb cycle diet? curious to ur thoughts.. hope u had a good weekend.. waiting on my scone, yorkshire pudding recipes  :Wink:  has ur wife had a chance to make the biscuits yet?

----------


## gbrice75

> Bollocks. You look better than me now


x2 (about me, not you Stem lol), wtf!?!?

----------


## Back In Black

I know, I feel like Obi Wan and 405 is Vader. But not evil. Maybe!

----------


## --->>405<<---

u guys r gonna give me a big head LOL  :Smilie:  

seriously though where would yall estimate bf% at this point?

----------


## --->>405<<---

definitely not evil  :Smilie:  anymore...

----------


## --->>405<<---

well had a decent back workout.. didnt go all out.. but i did 16 sets.. feeln draggish today.. think im havn low E2 issues.. yay!  :Smilie:

----------


## gbrice75

> u guys r gonna give me a big head LOL  
> 
> seriously though where would yall estimate bf% at this point?


Pretty close to 10% if not already there

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Pretty close to 10% if not already there


Sweet  :Smilie:  :Smilie:  :Smilie:  :Smilie:  thx..

----------


## slfmade

Lookin Good 405. So when are you starting your carb cycle?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Lookin Good 405. So when are you starting your carb cycle?


Yesterday  :Smilie:  and thx.. I tell u im already anticipating thurs-sat and dreading it .. Ive been *HUNGRY ALL THE TIME* for the last several days.. Rite after i finish eating im already counting down to the next meal.. May get on ECA just for appetite suppression LOL.. 

I saw ur post rite after i sent u the message askn about it LOL.. sounds like we mite be able to work sumthn out.. Ill give it some thought and get bak to ya..

----------


## Back In Black

Mate, good definition in obliques/hip, upper abs coming in. Interesting to see the legs but I'd put you about 11% ish.

----------


## Back In Black

What is your cardio regimen for the carb cycle? Sorry, if you may have stated it elsewhere.

----------


## -KJ-

Looking sweet arm

----------


## -KJ-

Looking sweet bro :-) not good idea posting when doing fasted cardio

----------


## Back In Black

> Looking sweet bro :-) not good idea posting when doing fasted cardio


Blimey, did you have a lie in? Isn't it 10.40 in the morning?

----------


## -KJ-

> Blimey, did you have a lie in? Isn't it 10.40 in the morning?


Yeah bro not in work today so it was sweet :-)

----------


## --->>405<<---

> What is your cardio regimen for the carb cycle? Sorry, if you may have stated it elsewhere.


Well id plannd on doing fasted intervals:mon, tue, wed, moderate (150bpm) thu, fri, sat (low carb days) .. Im thinking now of maybe just sticking to 135-145 bpm.. This to keep my body from burning LBM.. 

I tell u something weird.. Since i increased my carbs to 150g (2days ago) my weight has dropped 4lbs.. Im currently 185lbs.. Also yesterday i drank 140oz water (ive re-established my water drinking regimen of 1gallon/day ) so maybe thats helpd me drop some water.. And also my estradiol i believe to be low which could have an effect on water i suppose.. Have legs today and i think im gonna go light (225lb sets).. Just to be easy on my joints...

----------


## Back In Black

Ha ha, told you carbs were good for you!

Yep on the cardio. Steady state only I'd be keeping the heart rate at about 130bpm if you can. Boring, I know, but the fasted intervals were only really to last a few weeks anyway.

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ roger that on the 130bpm  :Smilie: 

Just finished.. Figd id do 40mins/day.. Think i forgot to mention that.. Funny bout the carbs.. Too bad they dont have that same effect relative to quAntity eaten.. Wed all be happy campers!

----------


## Back In Black

Hopefully 40 minutes per day will show some good results. 

The real problem with carbohydrates is that people normally eat a lot of fat with them and that is a recipe for disaster.

Personally, I'm not that big on carbs unless they have a lot of fat with them :Wink:

----------


## Back In Black

I know you had other questions. I'm working on them.

----------


## Back In Black

If you are seriously considering a thermogenic just make sure you do not take it after 2 PM in the afternoon or else you are unlikely to sleep.

I have tried ECA and clen and found clen to be far superior. It definitely made me jittery and I could feel the thermogenic effects as It raised my body temperature. If you can handle the sides then you will probably be in a position now where you can try it out.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> *Hopefully 40 minutes per day will show some good results.* 
> 
> The real problem with carbohydrates is that people normally eat a lot of fat with them and that is a recipe for disaster.
> 
> Personally, I'm not that big on carbs unless they have a lot of fat with them


Wat do u mean "hopefully"? Up til now ive been doing 45 with good results.. Do u think now that im leaner its not gonna work as well??  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Maybe the correct word should have been, should. You will, of course, find it much harder now to lose fat, As your body tries to retain as much as possible.

It will be interesting to see how doing it every day works in conjunction with the carb cycling.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Me 2 .. Do most people not do it everyday?? 

I also am gonna hold off on the clen /eca .. Not a big fan of jacked up and shaky  :Wink:  plus i dont think i need it.. Appear as though im continuing to lean out..

----------


## Back In Black

No mate, most people certainly do not do it everyday. Actually, if you'd had time after lifting I would have recommended HIIT over fasted LIC for the most part. I really only do 1 fasted cardio when cutting, and 3 PWO HIIT..

----------


## --->>405<<---

gotcha.. well pwo cardio is not an option for me.. neither is pm cardio.. any other recommendations? u think 6x per week is too much? in reality itll prob be 5x/week.. i will be keeping close eye on lbm and bf%.. i suppose if it becomes a prob i could get up and have a protein shake with oats mixd in.. but itll be like 60secs before i start..

----------


## Back In Black

No mate, we all have certain time conscrictions. Go with the plan!

----------


## --->>405<<---

goin with the plan  :Smilie:  hoping to try the yorkshire pudding soon.. my wife made some protein/oatmeal chocolate balls that r pretty good.. they have peanut butter in them also.. mainly for our daughter but i tried a bite last nite... gonna figure up the macros today.. have 60% cacao choc in them .. which is actually not too bad for u as far as chocolate goes  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

i tell u guys one thing.. im freaking
*HUNGRY!!!*

all the time lately!! its kinda frustrating.. tonite i workd out late cuz im workn late and my pwo meal is the last meal i get carbs in til sunday and i left my dang oatmeal on the dad gummit counter!!!! im thinking ill just have them before bed but i dunno.. i substituted cottage cheese into my shake (which was a first and not bad) and figd id just have the oats before bed when i would usually have the cottage cheese.. not sure if this is the best way to go about it but ill be hitting my macros so what the heck.. but anyways after the pwo shake i was still starving so i went ahead and had my chk breast and broccoli too and im still hungry  :Smilie: 

i dont know wats going on.. ive been cutting for almost 5 months with no probs too bad of persistent hunger then all of a sudden i cant get enuff food???

----------


## --->>405<<---

had decent legs workout too.. 12 sets squats x 225 except 2 warmup sets with 135 and 185.. woulda gone heavier but i seem to have to alternate weeks of heavy and not so heavy cuz my groin gets tender..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ok well like i did in the beginning since this is a beginning again of my carb cycle ill post total daily macros at the end of each day.. So..

Total daily macros: 2396/316P/146C/46F

Intended macros: 2259/291/154/41

The reason i went over was cuz of hunger.. So i ate an additional 1whole egg and 5 eggwhites.. Helpd alot! I fig if anything to go over on that was prob the least damaging.. *Would appreciate input*.. Tomorrow will tell the tale .. Low carb day#1.. 1800cals .. Am i up to the challenge?  :Smilie:  see yall tomorrow..

----------


## slfmade

> i tell u guys one thing.. im freaking
> *HUNGRY!!!*
> 
> all the time lately!! its kinda frustrating.. tonite i workd out late cuz im workn late and my pwo meal is the last meal i get carbs in til sunday and i left my dang oatmeal on the dad gummit counter!!!! im thinking ill just have them before bed but i dunno.. i substituted cottage cheese into my shake (which was a first and not bad) and figd id just have the oats before bed when i would usually have the cottage cheese.. not sure if this is the best way to go about it but ill be hitting my macros so what the heck.. but anyways after the pwo shake i was still starving so i went ahead and had my chk breast and broccoli too and im still hungry 
> 
> i dont know wats going on.. ive been cutting for almost 5 months with no probs too bad of persistent hunger then all of a sudden i cant get enuff food???


Not trying to push it on you or anything; I know you decided against it, but (if you didn't know) this is another way that clen or ECA can help A LOT. I used to practically have to force feed myself after taking ECA. Clen works too for appetite suppression, but I found ECA to be more superior in regards to this aspect.

----------


## Back In Black

Mate, your body will get more p1ssed off yet. It knows you have been starving it for months and it ain't happy. Do you like celery? You could munch on a bit of that here and there. Drinking more water should help. Also sweet potatoes should be slower digesting than your yam as they have a starch that tries to resist digestive enzymes. Swap your coffee for green tea too.

Earlier, when you said you felt jiggly, can you explain? Do you mean the fat on you belly feels soft and loose and watery? Or something else.

----------


## Papiriqui

> Mate, your body will get more p1ssed off yet. It knows you have been starving it for months and it ain't happy. Do you like celery? You could munch on a bit of that here and there. Drinking more water should help. Also sweet potatoes should be slower digesting than your yam as they have a starch that tries to resist digestive enzymes. Swap your coffee for green tea too.
> 
> Earlier, when you said you felt jiggly, can you explain? Do you mean the fat on you belly feels soft and loose and watery? Or something else.


I think he meant jittery as in shaky due to thermogenics

----------


## Back In Black

> I think he meant jittery as in shaky due to thermogenics


Welcome back camper!

A couple of pages back after his MASSIVE cheat (j/k) on his daughter birthday he definitely said he was getting jiggly with it. Or sumthin'.

----------


## Papiriqui

> Welcome back camper!
> 
> A couple of pages back after his MASSIVE cheat (j/k) on his daughter birthday he definitely said he was getting jiggly with it. Or sumthin'.


Hahahaha glad to be back!! Had to paddle so much on that river that even though i ate like crap i dis not gain a pound lol

Yeah 405 likes to jiggle jiggle hahahaha

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## --->>405<<---

^^yeh slf funny u mention that cuz ive dun EC stack before and know what ur talkn bout.. Main prob is it makes me feel like u said "on crack" and kinda makes me a bit anxious.. A feeling i gave up several yrs ago along with a certain lifestyle.. I appreciate the info though and if my hunger gets too bad i may reconsider.. As far as the clen i havent researchd it.. May chek it out.. Is it a script drug?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Dang u guys typed all that while i was typing my first post today.. After i submitted it i thought i hit the wrong button or somethin.. I was thinkin "is this my thread still"? LOL

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## --->>405<<---

Yeh i meant jiggly.. That was last week .. Ive been drinking alot of water and thats over now.. Drinking about 5liters per day.. Lookn leaner each morning..  :Smilie:  abs r showin up little by little.. 

Celery huh?? I like celery ok.. Funny ill look like one of those 70's women dieters carrying around a bag of celery.. The only thing missing will be the "Tab" LOL..

Wat did u think of my additional 1egg/5whites thing stem? 2400 still puts me 700below tdee..

----------


## Back In Black

> Yeh i meant jiggly.. That was last week .. Ive been drinking alot of water and thats over now.. Drinking about 5liters per day.. Lookn leaner each morning..  abs r showin up little by little.. 
> 
> Celery huh?? I like celery ok.. Funny ill look like one of those 70's women dieters carrying around a bag of celery.. The only thing missing will be the "Tab" LOL..
> 
> Wat did u think of my additional 1egg/5whites thing stem? 2400 still puts me 700below tdee..


As your bf gets lower the fat starts to feel different, almost loose. I believe I can feel my fat cells when my bf is low enough! Some people may refer to it as jiggly. It's a good thing.

Re: the bold - honestly? I would, at this stage, consider it a cheat, sorry. Going outside the parameters of your diet is just that. You will be having factored in high carb days so that should be enough to avoid any king of 'cheating'. Having said that, this is your first week on a new diet so I'll let you off. May have been an idea to take a week of moderate carbs before you started the cycle but no biggy.

Mate, you'll need an awesome wig and your old moobs back to look like a 1970's woman!

----------


## --->>405<<---

U said "the bold" but i see no bold.. Im guessing u were referring to my egg solution as being a cheat? Ur a tuff coach SteM!! 

Duly noted and eggs r droppd ... 

Def dont want the moobs bak LOL...

----------


## Back In Black

Yeah I meant the 'extras'! Mate, if you do that every time you are hungry..........

Hear you on the moobs mate, keep 'em away.

As for clen , not prescription for your needs, more of a 'research chemical'!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well so far so good on the low carb day.. man i tell u the HIIT session i just finished was great! went to the park..it is sunny and breezy and SteM the temp is 28 celsius!  :Wink:  got it in good.. my legs were telling on me the last 30meters of each sprint though.. did 10 sprints and warmed up with 1/2mile run.. awesome.. and my legs actually feel almost as if i worked them out today!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well today wasnt too tuff.. Stuck to diet except i ate 1extra eggwhite.. SteM i did some figuring and i had elevated my chk serving size from 5oz to 6oz to hit macros for new diet on low carb days.. But i found if i drop it back to 5oz i can then add 6 boiled eggwhites and still hit macros and actually come out slightly under projected cals.. Those 6 eggwhites really help out at 2030 when its time for last meal.. Think tats what im gonna do.. 

Projected total macros:1877/297p/50c/37f

Actual total macros: 1894/301p/50c/37f

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## slfmade

As stem mentioned. Clen (for you) would be purchased as a research chem. You can find it several places. I just ordered some from our board sponser ar-r . I've ordered from them many times in the past and they're very good. 

As I mentioned earlier clen doesn't make me near as crazy as ECA. Some people get jittery on it, and I get a little shakey, but the sides are only about half as bad as ECA for me. If you have an extra 50 bucks to throw around it might be something worth looking into. There's a buttload of info on this site.

Again...I love ECA as a pre workout - I like the crazy feeling while I'm training, but I couldn't do it all day. Clen I can handle fairly easily all day long.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Yeh think im gonna get sum.. Uve dun the liquid clen ??

Bout to hit the fasted cardio .. Low carb day #2  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well got the fasted cardio in and now at work.. at 1800 ill do shoulders, arms, abs... will be glad when tomorrow is over and sunday gets here so i can really eat!

lookn forward to using my straps on shrugs today.. will prob use them on all back exercises come to think of it  :Smilie: 

not too hungry .. i suppose..

----------


## slfmade

> Yeh think im gonna get sum.. *Uve dun the liquid clen*??
> 
> Bout to hit the fasted cardio .. Low carb day #2


Yep. I've always ran Ar-r for clen and it's always been liquid. I just bought some yesterday actually. There's some other guys out there that sells it (and are a bit cheaper), but I know Ar-r is good, and I don't feel like taking a chance on something I'm not 100% sure only to save 10.00 bucks.

How much longer until your cruise?

One thing you might think about is getting some keto as well. It'll help upregulate your beta 2 receptors while on with clen...this way you don't have to go the 2 week on 2 week off route. There would be a few benefits to this.

1. Helps you sleep
2. Keto= More time on clen; thus, better results
3. Without the Keto it means your gonna have to run 2 weeks on 2 weeks off. During the 2 weeks off, It's gonna kinda sucks if you're relying on clen as an appetite suppressant.

The nice thing about Keto is it's pretty cheap. Less than 20.00 with the coupon I'm about to PM you.

----------


## --->>405<<---

have a small kink in my situation.. got bloodwork back today and doc wants me to get back on armour thyroid.. last time i took it i had some palpitations.. this time he reduced my dose.. i dont know how the clen would do reacting with that stuff... on the upside i think itll help me get fat off as well.. not in the same way but poss the same result eventually.. have to do blood work in 6 more weeks ...

----------


## slfmade

> have a small kink in my situation.. got bloodwork back today and doc wants me to get back on armour thyroid.. last time i took it i had some palpitations.. this time he reduced my dose.. i dont know how the clen would do reacting with that stuff... on the upside i think itll help me get fat off as well.. not in the same way but poss the same result eventually.. have to do blood work in 6 more weeks ...


Actually I don't think it would matter. I don't know what armour thyroid is, but I'm assuming it's some type of thyroid medication? A lot of people take t3/t4 in combination with clen . So if your stuff is similar in properties to either t3 or t4 you should be fine. Also if it's similiar you should see some fat loss, but many people report significant muscle loss while taking T3...so that might have to be something you prepare for.

Actually I just remember you're on TRT, so hopefully it won't effect lean muscle...they'll kinda cancel each other out.

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh armour is dessicated pic thyroid.. its not t3.. more closely resembles our own natural thyroid.. dont think LBM loss should be a prob.. my TRT doc is the one scripting it to me..

actually i suppose i could just ask him..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well shoulders,arms,abs went ok.. i did notice a *BIG* difference in how i felt strength and stamina wise during my workout.. im sure it was due to the fact that i havent had any carbs except broccoli since wednesday.. tomorrow is last day this week for low carbs days and then sunday i get to eat good! im already lookn forward to it.. made a change to my diet for these low carb days.. since im eating a good amt less cals i decided to skip my protein shake and sub it with real food.. thatll get me 8oz lean ground beef which is a lot more substantial than a dang shake.. for a hungry guy like myself it makes me happy  :Smilie:  im also throwing in some more broccoli.. hope thats not a problem? itd be funny to think broccoli would get in the way of fatloss!

----------


## slfmade

> well shoulders,arms,abs went ok.. i did notice a *BIG* difference in how i felt strength and stamina wise during my workout.. im sure it was due to the fact that i havent had any carbs except broccoli since wednesday.. tomorrow is last day this week for low carbs days and then sunday i get to eat good! im already lookn forward to it.. made a change to my diet for these low carb days.. since im eating a good amt less cals i decided to skip my protein shake and sub it with real food.. thatll get me 8oz lean ground beef which is a lot more substantial than a dang shake.. for a hungry guy like myself it makes me happy  im also throwing in some more broccoli.. hope thats not a problem? itd be funny to think broccoli would get in the way of fatloss!


I love broccoli. When I start this carb cycle (a week from monday) my entire carb count of 50g on no carbs days will be coming from brocolli and asparagus. I like the idea of pulling the protein shake and going with more "real" food. I think it will help with the hunger quite a bit.

What's the length of time between your last meal and bedtime? Do you get hungry late at night?

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh slf i get hungry alot lately so im always thinking of ways to fit in more food .. like one thing that is more calorie and protein dense with less volume than something else kinda thing.. 

i think adding the broccoli shouldnt be a prob cuz after all its freaking broccoli man! LOL.. that will just add to the substance of the 8oz burger.. 

when my schedule is on target i have my last meal at 2030.. on low carb days its 5oz chicken, 265g broccoli, 6 boiled eggs (yolk removed).. 

i find the boiled eggs give more substance than simply scrambling them  :Wink:  those make up for the protein in my cottage cheese along with reducing my chicken serving from 6oz to 5oz.. which is negligible at the time but the xtra 6 boiled eggs r very appreciable  :Smilie: 

i usually go to bed around 2230.. sometimes ill stretch out my last meal to 2100.. i also may have just the broc and chicken at 2030 and save the eggwhites for rite when i go to bed  :Smilie:  

also ive been drinking *alot* of water.. ill usually chug 32oz water before i eat as well as drinking 1-1 1/2 gallons per day.. that helps too.. 

so as u can see ive been giving this alot of thought LOL...

----------


## slfmade

I just touch on this in another thread, but what used to really help me is moving things around a bit. 

When we work and are up moving around our mind has other things to think about other than food. Not that food doesn't cross our mind, but it makes it a little more tolerable. The problem for most people is when they're at home later in the evening and all they can think about is food.

A few months back I was helping one of my friends with his diet and he was miserable at night, so we moved everything around a bit. We cut his 4 oz protein servings down to 3.5 oz servings and his carbs servings down by 5g per meal. At six meals a day this allowed him to eat one last meal of 3oz of protein and 30g of carbs about 30 min before bed. This made all the difference in the world.

During the day we don't really notice these small differences because it's minimal and we're eating every 2-3 hours, but at night when we're bored laying in bed...being able to know you have that you still have an extra meal helps a lot.

I don't know your feelings about the meal timing debate, but I'm a firm believer that it doesn't make a difference....except maybe for carbs right before bed while on a strict cutting diet. Even then if you're a six meal a day guy...cut 1 oz of meat from each of your meals and now you have a 6oz slab of meat you can eat right before bed.

This might not be your cup of tea but at least it's something to consider.

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh thats a good idea  :Smilie:  the prob with me is my job requires alot of sitting.. which is one reason im on here so much.. so i have alot of time to sit around and think about food.. LOL.. i tell u one thing.. i cant wait to be dun cutting and go to maintenance.. even better than that is gonna be lean bulking... with my tdee at 3100 ill prob lean bulk to start at 3000 which will be 300g pro/300g carbs everyday!!! gonna be heaven LOL.. 

i remember when i was fat the thought of eating oats was unappealing.. now to me theyre the greatest thing in the world.. along with sweet potatoes.. i just love them both.. to me its almost like cheating to get to eat xtra of either.. up until this past monday i hadnt had oats in a serving bigger than 1/4 cup in 4 months!

----------


## slfmade

My favorite meal right now is 2 cups of oats in a bowl with 2 cups of skim milk drizzled with some sugar free immatation honey. You eat it like cereal and it's SOOOOOOO good.

I'm gonna miss that! Give me 10 days and I'll be it Cut Hell with ya. LOL

When is your cruise? How long is the cut?

I'm going cut for 10 weeks then I'm going maintenance for the summer!

----------


## --->>405<<---

cruise is april 29.. the cut is until i have visible six pack 24/7!

maybe.. im getting worn down on cutting LOL.. 5 months and counting... of course when i started i weighed 213lbs and was 22%bf  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

i dont even know what my true maintenance is.. i know what the katch/mcardle says it is.. but i doubt its accurate.. 3100.. prob closer to 2700-2800 is wat im thinking..

----------


## slfmade

I use this: http://www.fitnessfrog.com/calculato...alculator.html

I've been told by many many people that TDEE calculations are always a bit high. Even though I'm in the gym 6 days a week I still click the light exercise tab being that I sit on my ass all day at work.

So far I've had no problems basing my diet around whatever formula this calculator uses.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well day #2 dun on low carb day.. It was a long one  :Smilie:  SteM i see ur up early and im up late.. Tell u wats funny is i just finished my last meal LOL.. 

Total Projected Macros:1877/297/50/37

Total Actual Macros:1932/292/56/40 (i can live with that  :Smilie: )

----------


## Back In Black

Yeah man, 4 days a week I'm up at 5 for work. Until I have my new business off the ground anyway!

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ good luck with the business  :Smilie: 

Im thinking of not doing cardio today or tomorrow.. Ive already dun it 5 days this week.. 4days am fasted and 1day midday HIIT.. u think thats enuff SteM? Part of why im thinking this is cuz my bf is lower now and i havent had any "starchy" carbs since wednesday.. Dont wanna burn any LBM.. And im feelin a bit lazy.. Plus i have to work today at 1300 until 0600 tomorrow???? Wat u think? Have i dun enuff cardio?? Or should i do it today??

----------


## Back In Black

It's too much when your lbm starts to suffer. That doesn't help I know. But yes, I think 4 hours a week is certainly enough, especially on the first week of new diet. My cardio regime when cutting is 3 x 30 mins HIIT, 1 x 45 mins fasted and maybe 20 mins lic after legs.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx man  :Smilie: 

I know saturdays ur usually not around.. Hope ur havn a good weekend! 

My wife tried to offer me brownies this am.. See what i have to deal with LOL!! Day 3 of no carbs and my wife (whos also dieting) is tryin to feed me brownies!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i did the math and on my low carb days im pretty much eating :

17oz 96/4 ground beef
15oz chicken breast
12 eggs (1yolk/11whites)
12servings broccoli (1060g)
asparagus

basically 2lbs meat, 1dozen eggs, and 1kg veggies.. that puts it into a difft perspective .. and i have to pace myself so i dont run out of food too early.. funny how we dont realize how much food we eat cuz this is only 1900cals and i consider it not as much food as id like by a longshot! 

leavn that protein shake out has proven to be worthwhile  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well day 3 of low carbs about to be dun.. should be getting off work in an hr and then i can go home and eat 1last meal before bed and wake up tomorrow with 6eggs and meat and a whole cup of oats!!! thats gonna be awesome.. then 3 hrs later i can have more food and more carbs.. i get carbs tomorrow in all 6meals!!yay!!!!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Total daily macros:

1932/292/56/40
Low carb week # 1 successfully dun dude.. 

Tomorrow: high carb day !!

I have a new appreciation for the term "refeed" ..

----------


## slfmade

> Total daily macros:
> 
> 1932/292/56/40
> Low carb week # 1 successfully dun dude.. 
> 
> Tomorrow: high carb day !!
> 
> I have a new appreciation for the term "refeed" ..


Nice work 405!!!! How often are you doing weigh ins and measurements? When is your next one?

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ this am actually! 

186lbs 8.41%bf
Did measurements too:
Chest: 42
Waist: 33.5 (down1/2")
Neck: 16
Biceps: 16
Thigh: 24
Calf: 16

I do bf% every sunday am. Last week was 8.65% ill have to chek weight.. And get back..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ok SteM i may need some assistance here:

2weeks ago i weighed 190 @ 8.57%bf = 173.71lbs LBM

This week i weigh 186 @ 8.41%bf = 170.35lbs LBM

3.36lbs LBM lost in 2 weeks?? Wat does this mean i should do???

----------


## Back In Black

Is your high carb today?

----------


## hex

i just started to read this thread, SteM with that question are you leading to the conclusion that you can lose that much LBM via glyocgen stores and they will bounce back up when refeed is done? i have never tried cycling but i like to learn

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Is your high carb today?


Yes high carb day today..  :Smilie:  i was gonna do 

290 pro
250 carb

Thinking im gonna do

290 pro
300carb

Or

250 pro
300 carb?? Wat u think?

----------


## Back In Black

My suggestion is that after 2-3 days of low/no carbs then your weight will be down. Mostly due to water loss rather than lbm. So, in effect, you almost have a 'false' weight throughout the diet. Scales are rarely to be trusted and the calipers are the main tool that you need to take notice of.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ur so smart  :Wink:  

chk above revised post and tell me wat u think bout macros pls  :Smilie:

----------


## hex

crazy, love this forum and the knowledge to had off of it. great work 405 subscribed to it now

----------


## Back In Black

There's usually a simple reason for changes like that. Interesting for you to weigh yourself tomorrow morning and see what the figures say then.

Keep your protein where it normally is. First carb refeed so you can do pretty much what you want to see how you react to it.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Alright! 600g!!! J/k  :Wink:

----------


## -KJ-

> Alright! 600g!!! J/k


A man is allowed dream  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

> A man is allowed dream


Ha ha, that's an extra 2000 cals! But then I probably had that on my Supercheat day yesterday. Although I woke up lighter today than yesterday :Smilie:

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## --->>405<<---

Well today is gonna be kind of a refeed day with a few xtras thrown in.. Everything will hit macros except the peanut butter and jelly and banana sandwich plus a small amt of blueberry cornbread.. In a sense itll be a refeed with a p,b and J thrown on top! But hey im doin it anyways and well see if i still drop bf next week.. 

I did a little reading on carb cycles and they were talkn refeed days do 3-7g carbs per lb .. Ive had a cheatlike meal every week lately for a couple months .. Im just tryin to justify i guess  :Wink:  the calipers will tell the tale next week.. 

SteM remind me if u remember of this xtra peanut butter banana sammich next sunday.. All in all i dont think its too bad considering thats my only cheat except the little bit of cornbread..

----------


## Back In Black

Er, I think I said any cheat makes you a bad boy. But then, I ain't wearing no halo after last night!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well I havent eaten it yet.. I suppose i could wait til next week.. Or i could leave off the 15oz sweet potato fries with dinner.. Hmm.. Thats a tuff choice.. 15oz sweet pot fries, peanut butter and banana and jelly sandwich.. Wat to do?  :Wink: 

I dont wanna ruin my progress tats for sure..

----------


## slfmade

Think of that cruise...how good do you want to look?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ok guys.. No peanut butter sammich.. 

DAMMIT!!!  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well high carbs dAy is a woNDerful thing!! Best day of eating ive had since christmas and thats no B.S. !! 

Total daily macros: 2789/272p/302c/44f <----(i could get used to this)

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## --->>405<<---

Well i weighed 188.4 this am.. Up 2.4lbs from yest am.. Got my am fasted cardio in.. Only thing i woke up late and had plannd on not doing it but since i had to get out of bed to use the restroom decided to go on and do it LOL.. so i was able to squeeze 30mins fasted cardio instead of 40..

Lookn forward to chest today at lunch.. 

Sweet potato fries rnt that good btw.. Shoulda had the peanut butter sammich instead.. Bout same.. 500 cals / 100g carbs... Obviously more sugar but ..

----------


## -KJ-

> *Well i weighed 188.4 this am.. Up 2.4lbs from yest am*.. *Got my am fasted cardio in..* Only thing i woke up late and had plannd on not doing it but since i had to get out of bed to use the restroom decided to go on and do it LOL.. so i was able to squeeze 30mins fasted cardio instead of 40..
> 
> Lookn forward to chest today at lunch.. 
> 
> Sweet potato fries rnt that good btw.. Shoulda had the peanut butter sammich instead.. Bout same.. 500 cals / 100g carbs... Obviously more sugar but ..


Expected increase in glycogen stores and water...

And good job on the cardio. 
I working chest too. Looking forward to it although its my least favourite part to work.

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## --->>405<<---

:Smilie:  yeh thx kj.. Yesterday i had a bit of consern cuz it was after 3days of no carbs and down 3lbs which lookd like id lost LBm.. Stem told mento wait til after yesterday (high carbs) to see wat tat did to my weight.. Well i got 2.4 of thise lbs back  :Smilie: 

Chest is my fav bodypart to work.. Least fav is prob back.. Prob cuz i cant see it  :Wink:

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## --->>405<<---

had an ok workout today.. felt a little weak and have felt tired all day.. i cant wait to get home and lay on the couch.. i even took a 45minute nap this am.. unusual..

----------


## BrownGirl

Keep it up buddy!  :Smilie:  Were you on no carbs today? Is that why you're feeling tired maybe? I get lethargic at the end of my fast and also after a lot of carbs..so that means I'm always sleepy. lol

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## --->>405<<---

thx bg  :Smilie:  yeh yesterday was high carb day.. ate 300g carbs and 2800cals.. most ive eaten since christmas.. it was great! LOL

----------


## --->>405<<---

well up this am for 0600start at work.. no cardio.. and im not gonna stress myself out about it.. back at lunch..

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## hex

no point in worrying about a day, its not a race! got your whole life to look as good as you are now if not better!

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## --->>405<<---

^^ thx man  :Smilie:

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## hex

well you have made some great progress you are an inspiration to me... kill it at lunch buddy!

----------


## -KJ-

> well up this am for 0600start at work.. no cardio.. and im not gonna stress myself out about it.. *back at lunch*..


We have a very similar routine. What exercises are you doing?

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## --->>405<<---

> well you have made some great progress you are an inspiration to me... kill it at lunch buddy!


will do man! appreciate it  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> We have a very similar routine. What exercises are you doing?


deads: 4-5sets
BB bent rows 4 sets
wide grip lat pulls 4sets
closegrip cable rows 4sets

thats it..

----------


## -KJ-

> deads: 4-5sets
> BB bent rows 4 sets
> wide grip lat pulls 4sets
> closegrip cable rows 4sets
> 
> thats it..


I always do deads 3rd or 4th exercise. Only go down to mid shin keeping focus on lower back. 
I like that workout though!

----------


## Back In Black

> deads: 4-5sets
> BB bent rows 4 sets
> wide grip lat pulls 4sets
> closegrip cable rows 4sets
> 
> thats it..


Can you do chins instead of lat pulls?

----------


## Back In Black

> I always do deads 3rd or 4th exercise. Only go down to mid shin keeping focus on lower back. 
> I like that workout though!


Do you perform you 'deads' in a rack?

----------


## -KJ-

> Do you perform you 'deads' in a rack?


Yes. Start with bar around waist height and start the set from there.

----------


## hex

Wow is Tuesday back day? That's what I am off to do

----------


## Back In Black

> Yes. Start with bar around waist height and start the set from there.


I do 'rack pulls' because of lower back issues. Always start and finish at the bottom of the movement just below knees. Not saying I'm right though they always come first in my back workout.

----------


## -KJ-

> I do 'rack pulls' because of lower back issues. Always start and finish at the bottom of the movement just below knees. Not saying I'm right though they always come first in my back workout.


So start from the floor and finish on the floor?

----------


## Back In Black

I set the safety bars so the bar is at my upper shins. Up from there and down to there.

If I could do full deads I would but I would be out of action for weeks if I did.

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## --->>405<<---

yeh i start out light.. 135 x 12reps the 185 , 235, 285... 

i start on the floor and finish on the floor.. have straps today.. will be interested to see how that does me on deads and lats...

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Can you do chins instead of lat pulls?


i can do chins yes.. think i should switch it up?

----------


## Back In Black

> i can do chins yes.. think i should switch it up?


Yes mate, absolutely. Even if you alternate 1 week on one and the next on the other. Your call really. If you can do them weighted without swinging, even better.

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh to do them weighted i need a belt... my gym sux for equipment.. maybe ill look into one.. what u think a good rep amt is for chins before determining i need to add weight?

----------


## Back In Black

Depends on the rep range of your workout. If your rep count is 8-10 and you can do more than that then you need weight. Can you 'pop a dumbbell' petween your legs or calves til you get a weight belt?

----------


## --->>405<<---

i suppose i could  :Wink:

----------


## Back In Black

Feel free to refuse but can you list your individual measurements for your last caliper tests?

Show me yours and I'll show you mine :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Sure no prob  :Smilie:  id also like to note i left work at 1100 today and did not return.. Had a good back workout.. The straps *really helpd alot!!* up to 285 x 8 on deads.. I believe im strong enuff to do 385 just not brave enuff with form yet to try  :Wink:  

SteM i did chins today and last 2 sets i did 10 reps with 40lb DB between feet!! There was a time i couldnt even do 10 pullups (not long ago like a few months) and now i can do 10 with an xtra 40 lbs!! Im stoked and getn a belt!

After lifting i skippd my PWO shake with the bright idea of havn it at home along with PPWO to make a big meal cuz ivr been *SO HUNGRY!*

Well on the way home decided id eat 50g protein worth of meat instead of havn shake and ended up eating all my meat for the rest of the day plus my oats and veggies.. Then i took a 4hr nap! After which i woke up starving again and to avoid eatn any of the many carbs i was craving in the kitchen cookd an xtra 6oz chk breast and made a big cup of coffee.. I feel better now! *MAN IVE BEEN SO HUNGRY!*

Any thoughts? 

Bodyfat caliper measurements (mm): 186lbs (84.37kg) 8.41%. 170.38lbs LBM (77.28kg) LBM

Chest: 7
Abs: 10.5
Thigh: 7
Tricep: 6
Subscap: 10
Supraillac: 5.5
Midax: 7

ur turn  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well stem how bout them caliper readings?

----------


## Back In Black

Mate I'm out all day but I will get them posted later. Suffice to say I am about 11%!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i had a pretty dang good leg workout.. 

squat:

10 x 135
10 x 225
10 x 225
10 x 225
10 x 275
10 x 275
10 x 275
10 x 325 
5 x 375 (personal best :Smilie: )
10 x 275
10 x 275

----------


## Back In Black

Good for you! I had legs today and it was my worst workout in months!

I'll get those measurements on soon!

----------


## Back In Black

> SteM i did chins today and last 2 sets i did 10 reps with 40lb DB between feet!! There was a time i couldnt even do 10 pullups (not long ago like a few months) and now i can do 10 with an xtra 40 lbs!! Im stoked and getn a belt! *You'll really start noticing a difference in lat development!!!*
> 
> After lifting i skippd my PWO shake with the bright idea of havn it at home along with PPWO to make a big meal cuz ivr been SO HUNGRY!
> 
> Well on the way home decided id eat 50g protein worth of meat instead of havn shake and ended up eating all my meat for the rest of the day plus my oats and veggies.. Then i took a 4hr nap! After which i woke up starving again and to avoid eatn any of the many carbs i was craving in the kitchen cookd an xtra 6oz chk breast and made a big cup of coffee.. I feel better now! MAN IVE BEEN SO HUNGRY!
> 
> Any thoughts?*Did you go over planned cals for the day?* 
> 
> Bodyfat caliper measurements (mm): 186lbs (84.37kg) 8.41%. 170.38lbs LBM (77.28kg) LBM
> ...


See bold. But you missed biceps out, I have a 3mm reading.

Very similar measurements, first time my Mrs has done it. I'll prob stick some pics somewhere soon, I have visible 4 pack and striations in chest. But I am really light at 173lbs. Cut continues til end of March which will be an 18 month on and off cut. Then I'm gonna really clean lean bulk . Can't wait, like you I'm hungry all the time at the minute even on 170g carbs per day!

----------


## jpowell

just want to drop by an say congrats man. haven't chimed in in a minute, tryna get own thing together. but congrats on ur hard work. I'm gonna get back in tho. just really struggling.

----------


## -KJ-

> See bold. But you missed biceps out, I have a 3mm reading.
> 
> Very similar measurements, first time my Mrs has done it. I'll prob stick some pics somewhere soon, I have visible 4 pack and striations in chest. *But I am really light at 173lbs.* Cut continues til end of March which will be an 18 month on and off cut. Then I'm gonna really clean lean bulk . Can't wait, like you I'm hungry all the time at the minute even on 170g carbs per day!


^^ Your light? Imagine me if I succeed. I mean when I succeed. Ill be at most 155  :Smilie:

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## --->>405<<---

shoot man i feel light at 186 LOL.. i got used to being above 210.. at one point i was 226 and have been as high as 235...

----------


## --->>405<<---

well guys i have had enuff of this hunger so i went and bought ECA Stack ingredients tonite and start bright and early tomorrow am.. tomorrow is no carb day #4 and the first of this week and ive been hungry pretty much all the time except last sunday for awhile now.. im hoping this helps in that respect.. ill prob only do 1 stack tomorrow maybe 2.. and get myself up to 3 hopefully within 3 or 4 days.. 

i dont do well hungry.. and its weird how it came on all of a sudden a week or 2 ago.. and it hasnt left.. in the beginning and actually all throughout id have bouts of hunger but its never been this persistent.. i eat every meal like a ravenous predator and do not feel satisfied when im done...

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i didnt do cardio this am cuz i onoy got 5hrs sleep so its HIIT at lunch..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well i tell ya guys the ECA stack is a wonder worker when it comes to appetite suppression  :Smilie:  im not hungry at all! Which is great cuz ive been in a constant state of hunger for awhile now as yall know.. Its such a relief to have that burdensome feeling removed from the equation.. So i say if ur on a cut and u find cravings to be a problem u mite wanna look into the ECA stack if for no other reason: appetite suppression  :Smilie: 

Also i didnt do cardio this am as yall know so i went on a nice 3 mile run at lunch.. I havent done so since i started this cut.. My best 3mi time before the cut was 24:21.. Today after 6+ months of no jogging distance i did it in 22:51  :Smilie:  30lbs off my back obviously makes a big diff cuz it was a pleasureable as well as comfortable run  :Smilie:  

In a nutshell: im a happy camper today!

----------


## hex

> shoot man i feel light at 186 LOL.. i got used to being above 210..*(almost there)* at one point i was 226* (last week)* and have been as high as 235*(January)*...


what i am saying.... i am excited to feel light below 200. keep it up man said it before and say it again inspiration!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ good work hex  :Smilie:  we're all in this thing together bro  :Smilie:

----------


## baseline_9

Im well impressed with your progress

Do you have any recent pics... if not, what page are the last ones on?


Keep at it bro, your inspiring me since im cutting ATM too  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Im well impressed with your progress
> 
> Do you have any recent pics... if not, *what page are the last ones on*?
> 
> 
> Keep at it bro, your inspiring me since im cutting ATM too


page 33, post 1312  :Smilie: 

thx a lot man  :Smilie:  i appreciate it.. in week 2 of this carb cycle and i was getn a bit concerned with my hunger issues.. but as i posted above i think ive found a solution with the ECA stack.. in the beginning the fatloss was steady and at a decent rate.. now it seems is a bit tougher.. but im still going strong! i have 8 more weeks of this cut which is my deadline cuz we're (me, wife, daughter) going on a cruise.. tryin to get as lean as possible by then.. 

once thats over ill reevealuate.. may have to cut for another month to get rid of what i acquire while on vacation! LOL .. appreciate u stoppn by  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

alrighty there fellows.. well i had a great shoulder and arms and abs workout! kept it kinda light and did circuit style routine.. it was nice .. gave me an idea for next week.. im thinking since my moderate carb days are mon, tue, wed.. ill do a 3 day split and then throw in a total body circuit on fridays which is a zero carb day.. so im thinking:

mon: chest, bis
tue: back, shoulders
wed: legs, tris
fri: total body circuit

this way i can lightly hit all upper body parts 2days/week.. ill prob leave legs off on circuit days.. 

anyways its been 10days on this carb cycle and im enjoying it now that ive gotten over the hunger thing.. man i tell u the abs r startn to really show up decent now.. today when i got dun workn out (ab work) i was flexing in the mirror and i could really see them taking shape.. especially after id hold an ab flex for a few secs and then let go .. when i let go of the flex is when they really popped out which seemd backwards but nonetheless i saw abs today ive never seen on myself before!! im stoked about this carb cycle.. 

also i weighed 183 this am.. i know some of it is water and im not even trying to lose weight anymore just fat so it doesnt matter but ive prob dropped 4lbs in 2 weeks on this cycle.. i am thinking it was the right move at the right time.. i took a few pics and the abs rnt visible in them but figd id post them anyways  :Smilie: 

id also like to note now i see why people like to take stims before a workout!  :Wink:

----------


## Back In Black

Ahhhh, Mrs 405 must be getting to be a very happy lady :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

she is  :Smilie:  but shes not even close to being as happy as Mr. 405  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

id also like to note* i forget to eat now* with this eca stack.. LOL

----------


## bikeral

405 Fantastic log. I regularly look at it for tips.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 405 Fantastic log. I regularly look at it for tips.


thx bik  :Smilie:  glad to be of help ..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well low carb day #3 is upon me  :Smilie:  has been a breeze with the ECA.. looking forward to tomorrow.. SteM i was contemplating not doing the ECA tomorrow cuz i get to eat a lot and think it would take away from the pleasure i get out of it.. what do u think?

----------


## Back In Black

> well low carb day #3 is upon me  has been a breeze with the ECA.. looking forward to tomorrow.. SteM i was contemplating not doing the ECA tomorrow cuz i get to eat a lot and think it would take away from the pleasure i get out of it.. what do u think?


What is your planned ECA cycle?

----------


## --->>405<<---

dunno.. havent really decided cuz i just started.. what do u recommend? i started it mainly for the appetite suppression.,. not the thermogenic effect..

----------


## Back In Black

There's your answer just take it on your zero carb days.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i figd while i was on it i mite as well take advantage of the thermogenic effects?? of that be the case then should i not have a 1day break per week for high carb day?

----------


## slfmade

IMO I wouldn't see a problem running ECA 6 days a week 3x/day, and then taking a day off for your high carb day. This way you're getting to take advantage of the thermogenic effect. It's what I would do if I were doing ECA.

I like your idea about mon-wed targeting bodyparts and then friday doing a full body routine. I was just talking to browngirl about that very same thing yesterday. And...this is actually how people do their routine while on CKD...the full body workout on friday has something to do with depleting glycogen completely before your refeed. It might work very well with this carb cycle as well. I would like to hear some other people's opinion on this.

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^^ me 2 :Smilie:  lets see if anyone responds.. also we could as GB in his ask GB thread!  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

hey did u get a chance to chk the pm info?

----------


## slfmade

> hey did u get a chance to chk the pm info?


I had actually already read that a few weeks ago when I was researching carb cycles.

----------


## Tx89

Pics looking very good bro! Keep going :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

what did u think? did u read part 2? talkn bout not having back to back zero carb days?

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx tx  :Smilie:  will do!

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## slfmade

> what did u think? did u read part 2? talkn bout not having back to back zero carb days?


Yeah, I was a bit curious about that as well, but there's so many variations of different ways to do things...I just thought I might as well stick to a format that's been recommended and done by folks on here so if I have any questions throughout the cut I'll have people with first hand knowledge be able to advise me. That's something an article can't do.

The way I look at it is...I have this goal I wanta hit by May 14th, I can experiment with different things after that, but for now I wanta use something that I can get daily help on if I need it.

P.S. Do you have your workout routine listed in the log anywhere? I'm curious to see what you're doing.

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## --->>405<<---

no but i can show u.. 

mon: chest/abs

incline BB 4sets x 10
decline BB 4sets x 10
flat DB 4sets x 10
either pec deck of cables (alternating weeks) 3-4sets x 10

weighted cable crunches: 3sets 20 on each side twisting then 30 straight

tue: back

deads 4sets x 10-6 drop sets
BB bent rows 4 x 10
chins 4sets x 10 add weight on last 2 sets .. will prob do weighted on all 4 sets next week on out
seated rows 4 x 10

wed:legs/abs

squats 12sets x 10

weighted crunch same as monday

friday: shoulders/arms/abs 

*superset 1 :* *do all 3 of these supersetted 4sets x 10reps*
alternate tween seatd DB press and seated BB press on smith (SteM doesnt like this but i do  :Wink: )
standing strait BB curls
DB overhead tri extensions

*superset 2 : superset all these usually twice and call it a day*
closegrip bench
standing DB curls
shrugs
lateral and front raises (both x8reps in one set)
abs crunch same as above

may do something a little difft next week.. will have to give it some thought  :Smilie:

----------


## slfmade

> no but i can show u.. 
> 
> mon: chest/abs
> 
> incline BB 4sets x 10
> decline BB 4sets x 10
> flat DB 4sets x 10
> either pec deck of cables (alternating weeks) 3-4sets x 10
> 
> ...


I like it. I was planning on doing HIT for my routine, but I feel like If I try to do it safely; I'm gonna be half assing it because BrownGirl just wouldn't make a good spotter. I mean...she would try her hardest, but at her 95lbs there's not a lot she's gonna be able to do if I drop a weight on my head! LOL

There's a few things I would have change if I was gonna do it a program similiar to yours. I can't put any weight pressing down on my shoulders or pulling for that matter. Basically, due to this recent injury, I can't do anything that compresses my spine. So I would have to do something different for squats, BB Bent Row, and Deads! Any suggestions?

I was thinking for legs maybe do dropsets on leg-press, leg extension, leg curl? 

For back: Pull Ups, Cable Rows, Hammer Stregth Rows, or even lawnmowers could work since I have one arm on the bench which would take the bulk of the pressure off my lower back.

I don't know...it really sucks that I can't do squats or Deads.

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh i hear ya man.. rest up and get healed  :Smilie:  the way i look at it now is im cutting.. basically trying to get more defined.. im eating at 1000calorie deficit most days of the week.. to me that means im just trying to hang onto LBM.. so while i lift fairly heavy and get in a good workout i keep in the back of my head that gains r unlikely so im not so gonna kill myself.. ill save that for bulking.. maybe if u adopt some of that philosophy itll help how u feel about not being able to go all out rite now.. i think when cutting most of the accomplishment (fatloss) comes from diet and cardio... the chiseling u can do with reps  :Wink:

----------


## hex

> IMO I wouldn't see a problem running ECA 6 days a week 3x/day, and then taking a day off for your high carb day. This way you're getting to take advantage of the thermogenic effect. It's what I would do if I were doing ECA.
> 
> I like your idea about mon-wed targeting bodyparts and then friday doing a full body routine. I was just talking to browngirl about that very same thing yesterday. And...this is actually how people do their routine while on CKD...the full body workout on friday has something to do with depleting glycogen completely before your refeed. It might work very well with this carb cycle as well. I would like to hear some other people's opinion on this.


sounds like a solid way to structure it, help flush toxins out of your muscles as well. i would up water intake during the full body to help with that

----------


## --->>405<<---

> sounds like a solid way to structure it, help flush toxins out of your muscles as well. *i would up water intake* during the full body to help with that


since starting this carb cycle hex ive been drinking about 200 oz water per day.. 10x20oz bottles  :Smilie:  helped in the beginning with hunger plus its good for u.. and i figd i need to stay hydrated while on the eca as well..

----------


## hex

ya the eca dries me out like crazy. i have got up in that range now too, i am not sure if its connected but since i have been drinking that much h2o i have been feeling way more energetic... 

with the up in water suggestion when i was in physio they told me to pound the water back after every massage cause it helped flush the toxins out of your muscles that are created by the breaking of muscle fibers. it was just a thought...

----------


## slfmade

So I took the workout that you have and made some changes and posted it in my log. You should take a look and see what you think. It'll probably be pretty obvious that this is the first time I've ever put a program together.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well workout wise today was a waste.. I didnt get to bed last nite til lAte so plannd on cardio at lunch.. Well i got to park and it startd pouring down with rain.. Decided to do elliptical when i got off work.. Well on the way realized i had a flat tire with a screw in it and had to deal with that.. Was already a long day/end to a long week so when i got home (30mins ago) i said screw it.. Ill do am fasted tomorrow .. Will only be 3 days cardio this week.. A record low.. But since im fairly lean and On day 3 of no carbs i think maybe i mite need to reconsider how much cardio i am gonna do on this carb cycle.. So i dont feel too bad about only 3days this week..

----------


## slfmade

> Well workout wise today was a waste.. I didnt get to bed last nite til lAte so plannd on cardio at lunch.. Well i got to park and it startd pouring down with rain.. Decided to do elliptical when i got off work.. Well on the way realized i had a flat tire with a screw in it and had to deal with that.. Was already a long day/end to a long week so when i got home (30mins ago) i said screw it.. Ill do am fasted tomorrow .. Will only be 3 days cardio this week.. A record low.. But since im fairly lean and On day 3 of no carbs i think maybe i mite need to reconsider how much cardio i am gonna do on this carb cycle.. So i dont feel too bad about only 3days this week..


Agreed. I don't think you should worry about it too much. Why didn't you get to bed until late last night? Was it the ECA?

----------


## --->>405<<---

No i workd late.. Fortunately ive always slept well.. And my TRT doc put me on melatonin which is an awesome sleep inducer.. But it is nutn like sleepn pill sleep.. I jut get tired like normal but usually within 2 hrs of takn it .. I recommend it if u dont have it.. Think its 3mg  :Smilie:

----------


## slfmade

That would be nice. I sleep like shit. I never go to bed until 1:00 a.m. and then I'll sleep for 8 hours and still feel drained. I figure I'm just waking up a million times throughout the night without even noticing it. I'm hoping the Keto I take with my clen will help.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> That would be nice. I sleep like shit. I never go to bed until 1:00 a.m. and then *I'll sleep for 8 hours and still feel drained.* I figure I'm just waking up a million times throughout the night without even noticing it. I'm hoping the Keto I take with my clen will help.


That was me before TRT.. Not anymore... Always fell asleep no prob but woke up tired.. Sucked.. 

Does the clen do the same thing as the eca? Im askn cuz i was thinking of ordering clen and switching when it got here.. From wat u and stem said its "smoother".. The eca keeps me wired all day .. I do feel more tired when i come down but smoother would be better  :Smilie:

----------


## slfmade

Smoother would be a good word for it. ECA just gives me to many highs and lows. It all depends you ask though. I know SGT Hartman likes ECA better. I say give clen a shot and decide for yourself

----------


## --->>405<<---

Alright guys 40min fasted cardio is dun along with 3 days of no carbs.. Now time for omelette and peanut butter and jelly and banana sandwich! Yes!  :Smilie:

----------


## hex

> Alright guys 40min fasted cardio is dun along with 3 days of no carbs.. Now time for omelette and peanut butter and jelly and banana sandwich! Yes!


mmmmmm pb and banana is the sh!t!!!

----------


## hex

> That would be nice. I sleep like shit. I never go to bed until 1:00 a.m. and then I'll sleep for 8 hours and still feel drained. I figure I'm just waking up a million times throughout the night without even noticing it. I'm hoping the Keto I take with my clen will help.


have you tried animalpm? it stabilized my sleep patters

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## --->>405<<---

Well so far high carb day is freakin awesome! Did bf% it came back at 8.09% and 183lbs so:

Last week: 186lbs 8.41%bf lbm: 170.36lbs
This week: 183lbs 8.09%bf lbm: 168.20lbs

So another drop of lbm again.. But i think i ate last week before i weighed and i didnt eat this week and i did cardio today which i didnt do last week.. I think if i drop lbm again next week im gonna have to make some kind of change.. 

I had read that while carb cycling not to have back to back zero carb days.. I have 3 in a row..?? 

SteM?? Wat u think? R my cals too low? Could it be the factors posted above? Gotta be water rite? Just went and weighed after eating 2 meals and at 187lbs.. Was 183lbs 4hrs ago.. 


Either way bf% has droppd 0.32%  :Smilie:  thats good id say..

----------


## slfmade

IMO - It's pretty much a no brainer that you're gonna lose some LBM. But 2lbs in a week is WAY too much. Something can't be right. I'm thinking it's gotta be the calipers. I think we can all agree that, though your bodyfat is low, you're not 8%. That being said there's a lot of wiggle room there that can throw your numbers off quite a bit. What do your pictures show? 

I take pictures bi-weekly, crop them as much as possible and then line them up side by side. This way you can you can more accurately guage your progress. It's important to crop and put side by side because I've found jumping back and forth between the 2 plays tricks on your eyes. I've noticed you take your pictures at the gym. I would do it at home first thing when you wake up. Pictures later in the day or PWO can vary alot between between days due to water retention and (if you take your pictures after workout) pump. Maybe give this a shot and see.

If all this stuff shows you're still dropping LBM at an alarming rate then up your cals or decrease your cardio. I bet I know which one you would choose! LOL

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## --->>405<<---

Yeh ur rite about bf%.. i know im not 8% but i post it anyways cuz thats wat they say and ive just assumed it to be lower than actual the whole time.. It does reflect change nonetheless.. Last week 8.41 this week 8.09... Im jusy lookn for the drop.. If it keeps droppn then eventually i will hit a true 8%  :Wink: 

The lbm drop only started a few weekz ago.. Before that i wasnt losing weight at all just bf.. I do side by sides on my laptop  :Smilie:  thx for the suggestions!

Id also like to note i do see differences in mirror and waist has droppd about 1/2" .. Cant measure it now tho cuz ive just finishd a cup of oats! And it was good  :Smilie:  that makes 2 cups oats today.. And yes id def increase cals vs reducing cardio LOL..

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## --->>405<<---

Well high carb day is over  :Frown:  .. Was a great day of eating! Macros didnt turn out perfectly.. Think it was the xtra 24g fat from the PB sammich.. Basically like 3200cals 300/300/90 LOL.. Ill have to plan it better next week .. I did have 2 oatmeal balls my wife made with 100 cals each but im just not gonna count them..LOL.. 

I guess it was a high carb day/ cheat like day or watever.. Im gonna work on this carb cycle over the next week.. Have some questions..

----------


## -KJ-

^^ Dont worry bro...
Plan it out next week and see how it goes and how you feel.
Ive made up a journal to keep every day outside my log. may help you.

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## --->>405<<---

well i woke up and did my fasted cardio.. tuff getn outta bed.. only got 30mins but whatever.. weight 186lbs (same as last week so no LBM drop).. happy bout that  :Smilie:  chest at lunch..

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## gbrice75

> Macros didnt turn out perfectly.. Think it was the xtra 24g fat from the PB sammich..


I KNEW that PB sandwich was gonna screw you!!!

Fats were way too high for a high carb day bro.... gotta get em' down!!

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## --->>405<<---

^^ LOL yeh i know.. will have it dun from here on out.. it sure was a good breakfast though!

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## --->>405<<---

Good Chest ab wkout today.. Pecs were lookn pretty good.. I think i wanna pretty much look like i do when i get dun lifting (pumped) all the time  :Wink:  Lookn 4ward to that bulk cycle..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well i think ive found a new favorite dish.. Very simple  :Smilie:  1 pack of frozen peppers and onions sauteed in a pan with ground beef salt and pepper! Thats it! Man is it good! Im hooked! Why didnt i try this sooner??

----------


## hex

do you just dice and freeze the pepper onion combo your self in little packs and throw it in the pan??

----------


## --->>405<<---

No i buy it frozen already packaged.. I suppose i coumd but prob more expensive and more work..

----------


## RaginCajun

haven't stopped bye in a while, man you are looking ripped!

----------


## slfmade

Sounds like you're doin well man. Am really excited to see how you look by the end of this cut. I'm glad we're so similiar in terms of stats, diet, and routine. It makes for good motivation!

----------


## Back In Black

> Well high carb day is over  .. Was a great day of eating! Macros didnt turn out perfectly.. Think it was the xtra 24g fat from the PB sammich.. Basically like 3200cals 300/300/90 LOL.. Ill have to plan it better next week .. I did have 2 oatmeal balls my wife made with 100 cals each but im just not gonna count them..LOL.. 
> 
> I guess it was a high carb day/ cheat like day or watever.. Im gonna work on this carb cycle over the next week.. Have some questions..


What was in the oatmeal balls? Your potential fat intake for the day 100g? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Told you about the PB sandwich. I'm sure it was good but it could well have undone a weeks hard work just by the fat intake for the day with that many carbs.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx cajun.. Good to see u on dude  :Smilie: 

Slf i just hope i can get as lean as id like.. The calipers say im droppn and i look lean in the mirror but it seems my stomach fat is just stayn man!! It isnt leavn at a decent. Rate ..

----------


## --->>405<<---

> What was in the oatmeal balls? Your potential fat intake for the day 100g? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
> 
> Told you about the PB sandwich. I'm sure it was good but it could well have undone a weeks hard work just by the fat intake for the day with that many carbs.


Oatmeal balls have like 94 cals, 5g of each fat, pro, carb.. I had 3.. Made with 85% cacao , oats, pro powder, natty pb..

Live and learn i guess stem.. Next sunday ill be more prepped.. No pb sammich.. All the rest of the fat came from normal diet food..

----------


## Back In Black

> Well so far high carb day is freakin awesome! Did bf% it came back at 8.09% and 183lbs so:
> 
> Last week: 186lbs 8.41%bf lbm: 170.36lbs
> This week: 183lbs 8.09%bf lbm: 168.20lbs
> 
> So another drop of lbm again.. But i think i ate last week before i weighed and i didnt eat this week and i did cardio today which i didnt do last week.. I think if i drop lbm again next week im gonna have to make some kind of change.. 
> 
> I had read that while carb cycling not to have back to back zero carb days.. I have 3 in a row..?? 
> 
> ...


Personally I wouldn't have 3 zero carb days in a row. But you have to do what fits in your lifestyle. Given th eoption, I wouldn't do it.

ANyhow, as w eknow, you should only take measurements and weights at a consistent stage every week. For me, that's a Tuesday morning, after my toileting and after eating exactly the same meals 5 & 6 the previous day. Your high carb day was also a high fat day. How many meals into the day did you take measurements? Or am I misreading and you did it another day?

----------


## --->>405<<---

1st thing in the am before eatn..

----------


## Back In Black

Just keep an eye on it man. I lost 2lbs last week and I know that can't all be fat. Not at this stage. Ultimately that's why we do bodyfat readings. I agre with slf that some lbm loss is inevitable after a certain bf level is reach. It just depends how low you want to go!

----------


## --->>405<<---

I weighed 186 this am .. I wanna visible 6pack 24/7.. Prob 7-8%bf

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## --->>405<<---

Well lunch was. Punishment for not doing am fasted cardio.. Did 35 min on treadmill.. Boy that was fun lemme tell ya! But i fit my cardio in .. Tats the important thing.. Late work day today so ill do back at 1800dinner break..

----------


## slfmade

Nice work getting the cardio in!!! I think your goal of have a visable 6 pack 24/7 is a great goal. I wanta be able to see mine without any flexing whatsoever. Due to the way I hold my fat...I think I'm gonna have to get down closer to 6%. I guess we'll see!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Nice work getting the cardio in!!! I think your goal of have a visable 6 pack 24/7 is a great goal. *I wanta be able to see mine without any flexing whatsoever*. Due to the way I hold my fat...I think I'm gonna have to get down closer to 6%. I guess we'll see!


Exactly!!  :Smilie:  i may have to do the same as u! My stomach is flat but has this layer of fat that wont disappear ... 

Id also like to note today was my first day at 3 full doses of ECA and im glad to finally be coming down! Was a touch uncomfortable for awhile after that 3rd stack.. Nice to be back to normal speed LOL.. til tomorrow..

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## --->>405<<---

Well id like to note i had a great back wkout today.. Managed 3 sets x 8 full reps weighted pull ups with 40lb DBs for 1st 2 sets and 30lb DB for 3rd set.. 4ths set just did 8 with no weight..

Total macros: 2194/284pro/154carb/42fat

----------


## slfmade

> Well id like to note i had a great back wkout today.. Managed 3 sets x 8 full reps weighted pull ups with 40lb DBs for 1st 2 sets and 30lb DB for 3rd set.. 4ths set just did 8 with no weight..
> 
> Total macros: 2194/284pro/154carb/42fat


Nice work man!!! I'm just hoping I can do 1 set of pull ups by the time summer comes along. BrownGirl has bigger lats than I do. Definitely my weak spot. I do Back tomorrow and I'm really looking forward to it.

----------


## Back In Black

> Nice work getting the cardio in!!! I think your goal of have a visable 6 pack 24/7 is a great goal. I wanta be able to see mine without any flexing whatsoever. Due to the way I hold my fat...I think I'm gonna have to get down closer to 6%. I guess we'll see!


Funny isn't it, I'd gladly trade some of the fat from my ass/love habdles onto my stomach. Whereas you 2 would probably go the other way?!

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## Back In Black

> Exactly!!  i may have to do the same as u! My stomach is flat but has this layer of fat *that wont disappear* ... 
> 
> Id also like to note today was my first day at 3 full doses of ECA and im glad to finally be coming down! Was a touch uncomfortable for awhile after that 3rd stack.. Nice to be back to normal speed LOL.. til tomorrow..


Yes it will!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Yes it will!


Well it needs to come on!  :Smilie:  on a positive note waist tape measurement this am was 33" down from 33.5" so thats a good thing ... Todays leg day.. Also no cardio due to workn til midnite last nite and back at 0700 this am.. 

And SteM i dont think id trade cuz i dont want any fat anywhere! 

Increased carbs today from 1cup oats to 1.5cups.. Only 100cals but icouldnt bring myself to raise them all the way to 150g starchy carbs as me and GB discussed yesterday.. Thats puts me around 106g starchy and 70g veggie carbs (30g fiber).. May only utilise this increase on leg day..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well not a great leg day.. The old groin was actn up again.. I did 12sets last week and did 325 2 sets x 10 and 375 1 set x 5 .. Think tats why the groin is sore.. So this week i coukd only do 8sets x 10 on squats topping out at 275.. 

Id like to get a spotter sometime to see wat my max 1 rep would be.. I bet i coukd do 450lbs.. 

That xtra half cup oats was nice today  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well here we are once again the eve of 3days with zero carbs.. Why does it seem like i spend the most time here? LOL.. 

ECA i think the body is getn used to it.. Day 2 of full dose easier than yesterday.. Not nearly as speedy as last week with half doses.. From wat i read just cuz u dont feel speedy doesnt mean it aint workn  :Smilie:

----------


## slfmade

> Well here we are once again the eve of 3days with zero carbs.. Why does it seem like i spend the most time here? LOL.. 
> 
> ECA i think the body is getn used to it.. Day 2 of full dose easier than yesterday.. Not nearly as speedy as last week with half doses..* From wat i read just cuz u dont feel speedy doesnt mean it aint workn*


Very True!!! Hopefully the appetite suppression continues even though the sides drop.

I'm on the eve of my first no carb day. What sucks for me is since I'm running this IF style. My last meal is a t 6:00 p.m. and I don't eat the next day until 12:00 noon. After my first meal I'm fine, but even now on my moderate carb days with clen I get a little hungry before that first meal. It's probably gonna suck tomorrow!!!!

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## --->>405<<---

Ill be interested to hear how it goes  :Smilie:  also if the low carb days seem to be dominant for u like they are for me.. Even though i only have 3 out of 7 days it seems like 5/7 !!

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## --->>405<<---

Well off fom work today  :Smilie:  bout to do fasted cardio .. Will chk in in a bit.. Hope yall r doin well..

----------


## --->>405<<---

I love days off where all i have to do is lay on my lazy butt all day long  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

> I love days off where all i have to do is lay on my lazy butt all day long


Blimey, I never get one of them!

I have, however, had a full blown 24 hr cheat! Incl lots of choccy and biscuits (cookies), pastas and white breads. I'm gonna finish it with lasagne, ciabatta and cheesecake! That should keep me going til the end of my cut in 4 weeks time!

Sorry, had to get that out!

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ i hear ya bro! And to think u just finishEd givn me crap about eating 1 PB sammich LOL... I started the tanning bed monday  :Smilie:  gonna have to do some clothes shopping before too long.. I forgot wat it was like to go shopping for clothEs where being fat wasnt part of the equation.. Im sure itll come back to me pretty kwik ..

Today is day 7 of eca stack.. Day 3 at 3 full doses... Do i need to be taking anything with it so i can stay on or am i good For 8 weeks without any additional supps? Chekd blood pressure few mins ago.. 133/70 pulse:67 thought that was pretty good considerinf ive already had 2 doses today plus 34oz coffee and 2 diet mt dews ??

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## --->>405<<---

Not alot of actIon today.. Wheres everyone at?

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## bikeral

Whats up 405 how is training going?

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## slfmade

> Not alot of actIon today.. Wheres everyone at?


I'm here!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well im now at work! Yay night shift tonite.. 00:00 - 07:00  :Smilie:  hope theres some action in here ... The dang eca was a bit ruff today.. Took my 3rd stack at 15:30 and just now feeling semi normal.. Those pills can be taxing on one  :Wink:  sometimes i find myself wondering if its worth it.. 

After being sober 4yrs i suppose ive turned into a big puss...

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Whats up 405 how is training going?


Hey bik not bad man.. Had today off.. Except cardio..

----------


## yogiart

Readying your thread must be a good way for me to motivate myself. Too bad I am very busy until end of April.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Hey man do wat ya gotta do  :Smilie:  we (and my thread) will be here still  :Smilie:  glad to help !!

----------


## Tx89

Agreed, this thread is pure motivation! Thanks man, always enjoy coming on here :-)

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx tx  :Smilie:  apprexiate it man ! ! Ive been getting on here everyday now for about 6 months.now  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well interesting day to say the least! Ran into an "ex" at the tanning bed.. Havent seen her in 7yrs... Felt good cuz i was still pumped from the gym with veins popping and chest and shoukders popping  :Smilie:  got my tan going.. EAT UR HEART OUT BITCH!!! LOL.. 

Got my shoulder,arms,abs dun today.. Hit it pretty good. Kept it circuit style with very little rest between sets.. Was fun  :Smilie:  

only did 1 dose ECA cuz i didnt start my day til 1200 and figd id give the body a break.. Just finished meal 3 and 4.. Had to combine them to get em in.. Was nice to eat 500g broc 12oz chikn, 8oz burger all at once  :Smilie:  

Get to do it again in 2 hrs..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well day 3 no carbs.. Gonna do a 4-5 mile run at lunch  :Smilie:  tomorrow: high carb! Yay!

----------


## slfmade

Nice work 405!!! Keep it up!!!!

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

> Well im now at work! Yay night shift tonite.. 00:00 - 07:00  hope theres some action in here ... The dang eca was a bit ruff today.. Took my 3rd stack at 15:30 and just now feeling semi normal.. Those pills can be taxing on one  sometimes *i find myself wondering if its worth it..* 
> 
> After being sober 4yrs i suppose ive turned into a big puss...


You and me both man.

----------


## slfmade

Are you feeling really drained at the end of the day? Like you've ran a marathon for 15hrs? I feel like that on higher doses of clen when I split them. Just curious as I've only ever used ECA for pre-workout as opposed to 3x daily.

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ yeh at the end when i come down off 3doses im drained and tired.. Its actuLly a good feeling cuz its such a contrast to the rest of the day  :Smilie: 

I had a long lunch today and ran 5miles at the park downtown where on saturdays a ton of people go and they have food stands and art and stuff.. Ultimate frisbee leagues .. Had a great run too! Did 5miles in 38:18.. Its was awesome! Confortable run.. Got it dun dude  :Smilie: 

Tonite is pop in law bday so im grilling out.. Prob have 2 or 3 wings and a breast and a few baked fries.. And a cupcake or 2.. Whatever  :Smilie:  im pretty happy with my level of bf and i doubt a cheat meal is gonna matter too much.. I havent had one in 4 weeks anyways.. I will try to keep it reasonable..

----------


## slfmade

> ^^ yeh at the end when i come down off 3doses im drained and tired.. Its actuLly a good feeling cuz its such a contrast to the rest of the day 
> 
> I had a long lunch today and ran 5miles at the park downtown where on saturdays a ton of people go and they have food stands and art and stuff.. Ultimate frisbee leagues .. Had a great run too! Did 5miles in 38:18.. Its was awesome! Confortable run.. Got it dun dude 
> 
> Tonite is pop in law bday so im grilling out.. Prob have 2 or 3 wings and a breast and a few baked fries.. And a cupcake or 2.. Whatever  im pretty happy with my level of bf and i doubt a cheat meal is gonna matter too much.. I havent had one in 4 weeks anyways.. I will try to keep it reasonable..


Yeah, I doubt 1 cheat meal in 4 weeks is gonna hurt you that much unless you go way overboard with 10,000+ calories or something crazy, but I know you wouldn't do that!

----------


## --->>405<<---

H i thoUght bout it and told wife not to get wings  :Smilie:  so just chk breast x 2 and baked fries and cupcake.. Sometimes i just cant bring myself to let go!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well did bf% this am as usual.. 

Last week: 183lbs @ 8.09%bf
This week: 184lbs @ 7.93%bf

So a 0.16% drop.. I suppose thats good at least its still dropping  :Smilie:  never been this low so i dont know wat a normal %rate per week drop is?? Itdbe nice tonthink i could increase the drop.. Not sure if more cardio is the answer? Cuz of lbm.. Ive only dun cardio 4x this week and only 2x fasted.. The other 2 days were in the middle of the day and it was steady state not HIIT CUZ I read not to do HIIT on ECA??

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Very well done 405...Keep it up! 
> 
> So you're thinking about shaving the legs huh? *I'll tell you what; if you do it, I'll do it too!* My legs look like sasquatch!


Alright Slfmade.. I had to dig this up from jan 25 if u wanna chek it.. PAge 28 post 1096 of my thread.. Its a dun deal.. Ill try to post pics tomorrow.. Time to put ur $ where ur mouth is buddy!!  :Wink:  

P.S. I think i also deserve props for even remembering this far back!! LOL..

----------


## slfmade

> Alright Slfmade.. I had to dig this up from jan 25 if u wanna chek it.. PAge 28 post 1096 of my thread.. Its a dun deal.. Ill try to post pics tomorrow.. Time to put ur $ where ur mouth is buddy!!  
> 
> P.S. I think i also deserve props for even remembering this far back!! LOL..


I remember, but I actually trimmed mine down real low about a month ago because I was curious about the development in my legs. So....it's already been done on my part. Your turn!!!!!

----------


## slfmade

Oh and I would be impressed if this was 2 years ago...but come on. How cheap do you think I am to give you props for something that requires so little effort. What do you think I am a props whore? I just give props to everyone who remembers somthing from one a half months ago. I'm better than that and so are you!!!! hahahahahahahahahaha

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ u dont know my memory  :Smilie:  u oughtta ask my wife about it !!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well did my 40min am fasted cardio this am.. Was not easy to get up  :Smilie:  wanted to stay in bed.. Have chest/abs at lunch...

----------


## bikeral

> Was not easy to get up  wanted to stay in bed..


You and me both. I am not a fan of daylight saving time. Wish they would do away with it like in Arizona.

----------


## --->>405<<---

^ i LOVE DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME!!

I wish theyd leave it like this til october then move the clocks forward 2 hrs so itd be lite late all yr  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

ChEst went well today.. Didnt go real hard.. Did a fair amt more cables and pec deck.. Went light on flat dbs and did 4 sets incline.. 

On a difft note.. Do any of yall have any experience with heartburn and eca? Seems like i developed heartburn since starting it.. Esp if i take on an empty stomach??

----------


## slfmade

It's been so long I can't remember, but I don't get it on clen .

----------


## BrownGirl

> Well did my 40min am fasted cardio this am.. *Was not easy to get up*  wanted to stay in bed.. Have chest/abs at lunch...


Me neither! I hate daylight savings time!  :Frown: 

Anyway, it's awesome that you got up and went anyway!  :Smilie:

----------


## gbrice75

> On a difft note.. Do any of yall have any experience with heartburn and eca? Seems like i developed heartburn since starting it.. Esp if i take on an empty stomach??


I never did. Do you get it fairly consistently, and is it around the same time of day (assuming the ECA is taken at the same time)? Is it only after the 1st dose of ECA? 

I suggest you drop it for a few days, even a week, and see if it subsides. The lack of ECA won't make any appreciable impact on your goals.

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ yeh GB it was after 1st dose so i started eating breakfast and then taking it which worked.. But my 1130 dose is preworkout and 1hr after eating and i got it today.. 

So u think its not gonna do much good? For getn rid of fat? I have aLso used it to suppress appetite during zero carb days but i think those effects r wearing off cuz ive been on 12 days now.. Notice i have pretty good appetite still unlike in the beginning..

----------


## gbrice75

> ^^ yeh GB it was after 1st dose so i started eating breakfast and then taking it which worked.. But my 1130 dose is preworkout and 1hr after eating and i got it today.. 
> 
> So u think its not gonna do much good? For getn rid of fat? I have aLso used it to suppress appetite during zero carb days but i think those effects r wearing off cuz ive been on 12 days now.. Notice i have pretty good appetite still unlike in the beginning..


I'm not saying it's useless, I ran it too. I'm saying that it's not a make or break, and coming off for a bit won't hurt. Some people even cycle it 2 weeks on 2 off like clen , but I didn't feel the need to do so. Point being, some time off is perfectly acceptable, and health first!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Yeh true  :Smilie:  think ill take ur advice .. At leat til thursday (low carb day) and only then if im starving ..

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Me neither! I hate daylight savings time! 
> 
> Anyway, it's awesome that you got up and went anyway!


Thx BG  :Smilie:  tomorrow me and the wife and daughter r on schedule for our 1st trip to the ymca.. Should be fun!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well another day dun.. I tell u everybody has been not around lately.. Not alot of action in here.. Nothing major to report on my end.. Just chillin on the couch  :Smilie:

----------


## slfmade

> Well another day dun.. I tell u everybody has been not around lately.. Not alot of action in here.. Nothing major to report on my end.. Just chillin on the couch


You can report on the leg shaving...how'd that go?

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL well i tell u slf leg shaving was interesting man  :Smilie:  i actuLly did my entire body at one time and obviously never having shaved my legs before missed a few spots that i didnt notice til i got in the shower.. So instead of getn out and drying off and getting the clippers i just grabbed my wifes razor to "tidy up" LOL.. 

Got a pretty good laugh as i envisioned myself standing there in the same positions ive seen her stand.. LOL!

Also i did not do anybcardio this am.. Will make it up somewhere today..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i tell u what guys.. ive been on this carb cycle now for 3 weeks and im really liking what im seeing in the mirror.. the fat isnt "falling off" but its dropping .. basically where im at now it seems my skin is getting thinner and thinner (if that makes sense)  :Smilie: used to be i was worried about sucking in my gut but what ive realised now is i dont have to.. even if its sticking out at times it doesnt matter cuz the skin is thin.. its weird and great! took a couple pics just with shirt pulled up cuz i like the light in this bathroom but i didnt want to take it off cuz its at work and someone mite walk in on me posing in the bathroom and id look like a weirdo LOL.. so i did the best i could.. i havent been able to capture exactly what i can see in the mirror on my camera but ill post them anyways...id also like to note the shorts im wearing i bought in 2006 and havent been able to wear them til a month ago :Smilie:

----------


## Tx89

Obliques look killer! Great Job!

----------


## slfmade

Not bad for an old man! LOL You're lookin good man! I think you'll be looking great by the time your cruise rolls around... Though I'm not sure about after...LOL

----------


## RaginCajun

great work 405! definitely leaner and looking good.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx guys  :Smilie:

----------


## slfmade

Look who's on page 40 of their log!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

yehi tell u man its been a great experience  :Smilie:  i remember when i first started this log Gbrice still had his cutting log going and it was 60 pages and i remember thinking how long that mustve taken and wondered about the amount of work involved.. now im 2/3 the way to 60 pages myself! its pretty awesome and i am in better shape now than i thought id be.. alot has happened since i started.. TRT being one of my biggest allies for sure! along with diet and all u guys on here helping with my probs and questions.. i have definitely grown in my experience and understanding of diet and workout.. 

im considering purchasing a book written by an author GB recommended in a thread somewhere... Lyle McDonald wrote it... it looks like itd be a good next step in my process.. (and maybe urs?) check it out.. 

theres some 4 point process of getting rid of the last bit of fat once u get between 10-12%bf.. looks like the ticket..

----------


## slfmade

Sound like a good read. If you figure out the name let me know.

----------


## --->>405<<---

i know the name just didnt know if i could post it.. " trying to remove the last bit of stubborn fat" <----the name  :Smilie:

----------


## baseline_9

Anything by Lyle Mcdonald is gonna be great....

If you havnt already, check out his site www.bodyrecomposition.com

----------


## --->>405<<---

Sweet  :Smilie:  thx bro!

----------


## baseline_9

If you want any of Lyles Books for free, PM me  :Wink:

----------


## slfmade

> If you want any of Lyles Books for free, PM me


Hey...I like FREE!!!! P.M. SENT!!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Good back workout and i did 30 minute run pwo which was awesome!! Plus i lifted at 1730 and ran at 1830 which is totally difft for me.. Just finishd pwo shake with 1cup oats which was also awesome!!!

----------


## slfmade

Nice work 405. I just finished legs and it was brutal!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

I tell u those pullups with 40lb dbs r getn a little easier  :Smilie:  i did a warmup set with no weight and it was like i was mr pullup master! LOL.. I love doing em cuz i suckd at em my whole life til 3 months ago!

----------


## slfmade

> I tell u those pullups with 40lb dbs r getn a little easier  i did a warmup set with no weight and it was like i was mr pullup master! LOL.. I love doing em cuz i suckd at em my whole life til 3 months ago!


Go ahead and rub it in a little more asshole. I hate You!!! LMAO!!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL!! Sorry buddy  :Wink:  LOL...

----------


## bikeral

Where are ya 405 you are usually the first one here in the morning. Hope you are doing cardio.

----------


## --->>405<<---

:Smilie:  im here just havent posted.. or dun anything yet cuz im reading a great book about getn rid of stubborn bodyfat!  :Wink:

----------


## bikeral

hey whats the book I may need to get it as well. is it one of Lyles books?

----------


## slfmade

> im here just havent posted.. or dun anything yet cuz im reading a great book about getn rid of stubborn bodyfat!


Are you learning anything good? I got it yesterday, but haven't had a chance to start reading it yet.

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh man i learned alot! as a matter of fact i just finished it  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Bedtime  :Smilie:

----------


## slfmade

> Bedtime


It seems awful early for you to be going to bed already!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Its 2245 here and i have 0430 fasted cardio.. Been reading ultimate diet 2.0 .. Looks very interesting.. Carb cycle.. Thinkn bout trying it out.. Chek it out.. Just ffwd to the diet.. 7-8g carbs per lb bodyweight for carb load = 1200g -1300G carbs for us in 24 hrs LOL.. Sounds awesome! Plus 165g protein and @ 50g fat... @6500cals...

----------


## slfmade

> Its 2245 here and i have 0430 fasted cardio.. Been reading ultimate diet 2.0 .. Looks very interesting.. Carb cycle.. Thinkn bout trying it out.. Chek it out.. Just ffwd to the diet.. 7-8g carbs per lb bodyweight for carb load = 1200g -1300G carbs for us in 24 hrs LOL.. Sounds awesome! Plus 165g protein and @ 50g fat... @6500cals...


That sounds ridiculous!!!! Similiar to the CKD carb load. I don't know if I could do that. That'd me crazy. I think I would explode.

I'll check it out tomorrow. I'm at work all day so I'll have plenty of time to read. I've been studying up on aas cycles. I think I've narrow down what I'm gonna do when I start.

You still with me on starting first cycle in November?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Heck yeh!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well todays gonna be a good day.. easy day at work.. getn car washed now then tanning bed then cardio  :Smilie:  waiting to hear from gbrice in his ask thread related to my potential future plans to modify my carb cycle as well as change up my lifting and cardio routine in hopes of making some good progress over the next 6 weeks before my cruise..

----------


## --->>405<<---

alright guys today i did a serious cardio session after the tanning bed.. sfp1.0 which was:

5min warm-up jog(1/2mile)
9mins HIIT
5min rest
25min moderate run (3miles today)
5min cooldown

now this mite not look like much but believe me it was awesome! the actual workout can go 10min HIIT; 40min run so i wasnt able to complete the entire thing which also was great cuz it wouldnt be a challenge if i could do the whole thing my first try  :Smilie: 

im stoked dude! the idea behind it is to use the HIIT to mobilize fat cells with a 5 minute rest to allow them to get into ur bloodstream and then a moderate cardio session to burn the fat out of ur blood basically.. we'll see how this does.. i will prob try to do it again saturday ..

----------


## --->>405<<---

stem where ya at man? was hoping for some feedback from u on stuff  :Smilie:  curious as to what u think about ultimate diet 2.0? with a 1250g carb load after 4 days of 50g carbs and total depletion workouts? at least this way i can tell if ur chekn my thread cuz if i dont hear from u ill know ur not  :Wink:

----------


## slfmade

> stem where ya at man? was hoping for some feedback from u on stuff  curious as to what u think about ultimate diet 2.0? with a 1250g carb load after 4 days of 50g carbs and total depletion workouts? at least this way i can tell if ur chekn my thread cuz if i dont hear from u ill know ur not


Stem must be hanging out with TBODY!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Nah i saw him in bik's thread today  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well a tuff nites lack of good sleep has me backing off ECA for a bit.. Been on 3weeks and think my body needs a break.. Woke up at 0200ish with fast,pounding heartbeat that persisted for 2 hrs.. Sucked  :Smilie: 

Today im off work and off workout.. Gonna be lazy!

----------


## bikeral

Enjoy the day!

----------


## slfmade

> Well a tuff nites lack of good sleep has me backing off ECA for a bit.. Been on 3weeks and think my body needs a break.. Woke up at 0200ish with fast,pounding heartbeat that persisted for 2 hrs.. Sucked 
> 
> Today im off work and off workout.. Gonna be lazy!


That's strange....when did you take it last? If I remember correctly the half life is only 3-6 hours.

And why are you off workout today? I thought we had the same schedule and you're doing arms/shoulders today? Have you started the workout change already?

Enjoy you're off day.

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ i took the last one at 1730.. So it woulda been like 7hrs.. But i also drank 34oz coffee and 2or3 12oz diet sodas..  :Smilie: 
I suppose my TRT could have to do with it too?? Im taking alot of stuff.. Test, hcg , ai, 15vitamins, ibuprofen, eca... I may have taken 4 doses as well not sure..

As far as schedule yes i was supposed to wkout today but gym is by work (40mins away) and today is moms birthday so that combined with being up 3 hrs last nite and a sunburned butt from tanning bed at full 15mins level 2 = day off for me  :Smilie:  but i will do it tomorrow.. Dont see where it really matters..

----------


## slfmade

> ^^ i took the last one at 1730.. So it woulda been like 7hrs.. But i also drank 34oz coffee and 2or3 12oz diet sodas.. 
> I suppose my TRT could have to do with it too?? Im taking alot of stuff.. Test, hcg , ai, 15vitamins, ibuprofen, eca... I may have taken 4 doses as well not sure..
> 
> As far as schedule yes i was supposed to wkout today but gym is by work (40mins away) and today is moms birthday so that combined with being up 3 hrs last nite and a sunburned butt from tanning bed at full 15mins level 2 = day off for me  but i will do it tomorrow.. Dont see where it really matters..


It doesn't really matter. I was just curious. I thought I was losing my mind or something.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well shoulders arms abs today  :Smilie:  id also like to note i have my 6000cal refeed diet completed.. once i get the rest of the diet dun ill post the whole thing.. im pretty excited about eating the 6000cals i must say.. and in the front of the carb load i threw in one of my favorite dishes since from my understanding i can..

----------


## slfmade

> well shoulders arms abs today  id also like to note i have my 6000cal refeed diet completed.. once i get the rest of the diet dun ill post the whole thing.. im pretty excited about eating the 6000cals i must say.. and in the front of the carb load i threw in one of my favorite dishes since from my understanding i can..


I started reading "the stubborn fat solution" last night. So far I'm 34 pages in. I find it a bit boring but educational. I'm sure once I get into it a little deeper it'll get more interesting.

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ yeh it can be ... i suppose it depends on the extent of ur interest in losing fat  :Smilie:  for myself that extent is great so i was trying to learn as much as i could.. u could just skip rite to the diet itself and assume everything he tells u is accurate.. 

on a difft note today i did the day 2 depletion workout which was tuff.. he says to repeat twice.. im not sure if he meant do the total circuit twice or do the total circuit 3 times.. he does say 5-6 sets per bodypart which leads me to believe by repeat twice he means do 2 total circuits cuz each circuit consists of 3 sets x 15 reps.. anyways heres the workout i did: (day 3 no carbs except broccoli)

leg press 3 x 15
leg curl 3 x 15
incl bench 3 x 15
chins 3 x 15
lateral raise 3 x 15
calf raise 3 x 15
bicep curl 2 x 15
tri pushdown 2 x 15

repeat twice...

----------


## BrownGirl

How did the workout with family go?  :Smilie:  Hope it was fun!

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ yeh that didnt happen.. my wife is lazy (although dont tell her i said that  :Wink: ) and she is good at making excuses.. the other day we were gonna go i had to work and got no argument out of her  :Smilie:

----------


## bikeral

> ^^ yeh that didnt happen.. my wife is lazy (although dont tell her i said that ) and she is good at making excuses.. the other day we were gonna go i had to work and got no argument out of her


My wife is same I've been paying $70/month for her gym membership and she goes at most 1-2 times a month.

Like the new avi, think I have the same shorts :Wink/Grin:

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^thx.. hilarious bik.. im payn 70$ per month as well for the ymca except i can count on one hand the times shes been in 5 yrs! when i bring it up i get jumped on .. 

women.. sheesh!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i took a pic today i think i look leaner.. wanna put it side by side with a pic i took when i started this carb cycle .. the first is dated march2.. the second march 17.. so 2 weeks.. what yall think??

----------


## BrownGirl

Hahaha It happens....Hopefully she'll come with you one of these days...

----------


## FONZY007

Why are you adding all the calories

----------


## --->>405<<---

its a new diet ive read about by lyle mcdonald called ultimate diet 2.0 

its a carb cycle where u run 50%maintenance for 3.75days doing all depletion workouts then do a 30hr massive refeed where the previous diet and workout routine should allow the body to partition the cals from the refeed much more efficiently and u should lose stubborn fat as well as poss gain some muscle.. then u run maintenance for the last 2 days reducing carbs back into the next cycle of 50g carbs per day..

----------


## slfmade

This should help you see the difference a little better. It's hard to compare the two pics because the lighting is so different. It looks like you gained some mass in your chest...in a good way. And it seems the love handle's have went down too. Nice work!


405 by slfmade, on Flickr

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL^^ thx bro! How the heck did u do that?? 

Also thats exactly wat i was thinkn.. Both points.. Thx  :Smilie:  

I must say im a little nervous about switching my diet so close to the cruise.. But it could help me get more lean than my current diet is doing.. I guess part of me is worried about the 1250g carb refeed followed by 2 days at maintenance.. If i didnt have the cruise so close it wouldnt matter.. Hate to waste time tween now and then if my body reacts difftly than it should..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i did bf% today and it was pretty much the same as last week.. however (and i dont have the measurements in front of me rite now) my chest was 5mm and my abs were 7.5mm i believe.. which is huge cuz this is the first time abs have been in single digits and they had a pretty good drop.. a few measurements went up but i believe that to be user error as opposed to actual fat gain.. 8.09% was the reading.. and my weight is 186lbs as opposed to 184 last week.. all in all a good week IMO  :Smilie: 

did am fasted cardio this morning.. followed lyle's sfp1.0 with:
5min warm-up
10min HIIT
25min moderate (135BPM HR)

feeln good  :Smilie:  

considering holding off on ud 2.0 and maybe continuing on my current carb cycle utilizing sfp1.0 fasted 2 days per week as well as one or 2 HIIT sessions midday and regular fasted cardio and possibly just switching up my workout routine to the ud 2.0 depletion workouts for my 3days no carbs in the beginning of the week.. too bad GBrice or SteM rnt around to give their opinions. 

anyone else got one? the way im lookn at it im still makn progress with my carb cycle.. maybe not as fast as id like but like i said previously 6 weeks out from cruise is prob not the time to start experimenting  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well its monday again.. chest and abs today  :Smilie:  gonna be a long one too (at work that is  :Smilie: )

----------


## baseline_9

> well i did bf% today and it was pretty much the same as last week.. however (and i dont have the measurements in front of me rite now) my chest was 5mm and my abs were 7.5mm i believe.. which is huge cuz this is the first time abs have been in single digits and they had a pretty good drop.. a few measurements went up but i believe that to be user error as opposed to actual fat gain.. 8.09% was the reading.. and my weight is 186lbs as opposed to 184 last week.. all in all a good week IMO 
> 
> did am fasted cardio this morning.. followed lyle's sfp1.0 with:
> 5min warm-up
> 10min HIIT
> 25min moderate (135BPM HR)
> 
> feeln good  
> 
> ...


My opinion is that UD2.0 was written by probably the best mind in the nutrition field.... If he thinks its best then I would just accept that he is rite for the most part....

Anything that lyle says I take as fact... The guy is a crazy geek LOL..... Like Swifto

----------


## --->>405<<---

:Smilie:  thx bro.. i figd as much just wanted to hear others thoughts specifically to the ud2.0 plan  :Smilie: 

what would u do if u were me? prob havent read it but i have a cruise coming up in 6weeks.. ive been cutting since oct 1, 2011 basically and i read he suggests running maintenance for 7-14 days to "reset" (if i can use that word) ur metabolism and body back to square one esp if uve been cutting for awhile .. i suppose to bring ur body's receptivity to cutting back to par.. 

im unsure of the extent of my metabolic slowdown and still seem to be dropping bf but it has slowed a good bit.. i am pretty lean now but would like to get ultra lean for this cruise and thought if i ran maintenance for a week id have 5 weeks to run ud2.0 combined with sfp2.0, sfp1.0 to try and get there.. i just dont want to risk adding any fat  :Smilie: 
???

i prob have my answer in ur previous post but would like to hear u say it  :Smilie:

----------


## baseline_9

> thx bro.. i figd as much just wanted to hear others thoughts specifically to the ud2.0 plan 
> 
> what would u do if u were me? prob havent read it but i have a cruise coming up in 6weeks.. ive been cutting since oct 1, 2011 basically and i read he suggests running maintenance for 7-14 days to "reset" (if i can use that word) ur metabolism and body back to square one esp if uve been cutting for awhile .. i suppose to bring ur body's receptivity to cutting back to par.. 
> 
> im unsure of the extent of my metabolic slowdown and still seem to be dropping bf but it has slowed a good bit.. i am pretty lean now but would like to get ultra lean for this cruise and thought if i ran maintenance for a week id have 5 weeks to run ud2.0 combined with sfp2.0, sfp1.0 to try and get there.. i just dont want to risk adding any fat 
> ???
> 
> i prob have my answer in ur previous post but would like to hear u say it


Id go for it... Or an IF diet

Bring cals up to mtnce for a week... Start the training routine as laid out in UD2.0 (2 depletion, 1 HIT, 1 Power) and then start the diet next monday....

See how you respond.... One thing I would stress (you have already heard this from lyle) is to stick to his plan exactly.... 


I think I may move over to this from the IF that im currently running... The only thing I dont like is the fact that you do 4 x full body workouts per week..... Mainly because i love training HIT 4 days a week... However like you, I think the idea of a mega carb load every saturday (routine moved forward 1 day) sounds amazing

I havnt read the suborn fat book yet... Any good?

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh very informative! i enjoyed the whole book  :Smilie:  when it comes to bodyfat and how to get rid of it i am fascinated and love reading about it.. he basically explains what fat is, the difft types of fat, how hormones relate to fat storage as well as mobilization.. then he gives u the 2 cardio programs to get rid of it.. i learned a ton and will prob read it again just cuz my reading comprehension sucks  :Smilie: 

as far as the total body workouts.. i did one of them saturday (day 3 of 50g carbs from broccoli only) and it was tuff man! i think itll take a few cycles to get the routine down.. at the bottom he says "repeat twice" but at the top he says do 5-6 sets per bodypart.. i couldnt tell by "repeat twice" if he meant twice after doing it one time or twice total.. based on amt total sets per bodypart i decided he meant twice total cuz u do 3 x 15-20 on ur sets.. i may just give it a go! i hate being wishy washy.. just dont wanna gain any fat or lose any LBM  :Smilie: 

i will be following it to a tee!

----------


## baseline_9

> yeh very informative! i enjoyed the whole book  when it comes to bodyfat and how to get rid of it i am fascinated and love reading about it.. he basically explains what fat is, the difft types of fat, how hormones relate to fat storage as well as mobilization.. then he gives u the 2 cardio programs to get rid of it.. i learned a ton and will prob read it again just cuz my reading comprehension sucks 
> 
> as far as the total body workouts.. i did one of them saturday (day 3 of 50g carbs from broccoli only) and it was tuff man! i think itll take a few cycles to get the routine down.. at the bottom he says "repeat twice" but at the top he says do 5-6 sets per bodypart.. i couldnt tell by "repeat twice" if he meant twice after doing it one time or twice total.. based on amt total sets per bodypart i decided he meant twice total cuz u do 3 x 15-20 on ur sets.. i may just give it a go! i hate being wishy washy.. just dont wanna gain any fat or lose any LBM 
> 
> i will be following it to a tee!


Yes I remember that in UD2.... He says repeat twice after the list of exercises (interpreted by us to mean do the whole thing 3 times) but I think he means do the whole thing twice...

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh i was glad to see the top saying 5-6 sets cuz i didnt have another round in me  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well fellows i did depletion workout day 1 today just to get a feel for the workout.. it was tuff dude! took me 50minutes with not a lot of rest in between sets or should i say supersets  :Smilie:  i was def feeling depleted when i left and will have to do another one tomorrow which actually has 1 more exercise in the deal.. typically this will be dun on 50g carbs.. today i had 175..  :Smilie:

----------


## baseline_9

> well fellows i did depletion workout day 1 today just to get a feel for the workout.. it was tuff dude! took me 50minutes with not a lot of rest in between sets or should i say supersets  i was def feeling depleted when i left and will have to do another one tomorrow which actually has 1 more exercise in the deal.. typically this will be dun on 50g carbs.. today i had 175..


HAHA

Its going to get real fun....

I bet your cant wait for the HIT workout on Thursday LMFAO...

Are you going to carbload on friday then?

Depletion - Mon/Tue
HIT - Thu followed by re-feed which ends friday night
Power workout - Sat



If I was to do it i would be pushing it all forward 1 day so that I get to do nothing but eat carbs all day saturday  :Smilie: 



I cant wait to see your progress

----------


## slfmade

I can't wait to see how this works out for you. I bet it will be good...if for no other reason than doing something drastically different from what you've been accustomed to the last several months. I think too often we make small changes to our routines and consider them change, but by drastically changing, either or both, cardio and diet, we could expect to see more significant gains.

Hey Base....does Lyle have anything on Lean Bulks? I'm thinking after I finish my cut (instead of maintaining for the summer), I'm gonna take a 2 week break and jump right back into lean bulk. As all this fat falls off of me...I'm starting to see how little areas (such as my chest) actually are without the fat, and I want to gain as much mass as possible naturally before I start my first cycle in Novemeber. 

Sorry to hijack your thread 405, but Base never comes to mine. I feel so neglected!!! LOL

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL ^^ no prob slf ur always welcome to hijack any time u like man  :Smilie: 

yeh base i am thinking the same as u starting day 1 on tues which will move carb load to fri nite/saturday.. sundays im always off work so itll be a great day to take my time with the power workout as well  :Smilie: 

the tuff part for this diet for me is finding the time to get the workouts in.. i do all my lifting at lunch and i only get 1 hr.. i proved today i can do the depletion workout is 50mins but i dont get the amt rest between sets he suggests which is my only concern.. i think if i did it the way he suggests taking the exact amt of rest suggested itd take 1 1/2 hrs to do which is a physical impossibility for me.. 

i work container vessels and so my schedule is not set and im often working from 7am to 7,8, 9 or even midnite (like today) and i only get 1hr for meals which is non-negotiable when ur talking 350meter ships with schedules to keep.. theyre not gonna wait for 405 to get in his last 2 sets LOL...

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ id also like to note i did some calculating and currently on the carb cycle im running im eating @ 15,300cals per week..

with ud2.0 ill be eating 16,800cals per week so ur not talkn that much diff.. i was curious to the 6000cal refeed effect on weekly cals  :Smilie:  

i may run macro differences as well.. im a dork  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

hey base if u dont mind man im gonna post my carb load diet on here if u could take a look and tell me what u think.. lyle said i could have 100g sucrose and 50g fructose so i have it in there.. he also suggested bagels and pasta.. the pasta i have listed is whole wheat for what its worth.. will be posting here in a min  :Smilie:

----------


## baseline_9

Will take a look.... What are your 3 lots or target macros (deplete days, normal days, carb load day)

I think I would go for a fair bit of the following on the carb up day (personal preference) ; white potatoes, home made pizza and pasta, white basmati rice, toast with jam, chocolate milk

----------


## --->>405<<---

carb load: 6017cals
220g pro
1244g carbs
46g fat

meal 1 (PWO) : 946/54p/171c/6f
1banana, 2 serv skim milk, 1serv frosted mini wheats, 2 serv honey bunches oats

meal2: 772/32p/153c/9f
1 banana, 2serv milk, 4serv sugar free jam, 1 1/2 cups oats

meal3; 888/33P/186C/5F
3 plain bagels, 4serv sugar free jam

meal4: 888/33p/186c/5f
3 plain bagels, 4serv sug free jam

meal5: 620/21p/128c/7f
2 plain bagels, 1cup oats, 4serv sug free jam

meal6: 643/22p/134c/2f
2oz barilla whole wheat angel hair pasta

meal7: 630/13p/134c/6f
1cup oats, 4serv sug free jam, 12oz sweet potato

meal8: 630/13p/134c/6f
1cup oats, 4serv sug free jam,

figure ill eat meals 1 & 2 on friday pm after HIT workout and meals 3-8 saturday  :Smilie: 

like i said he said i could have sucrose and fructose so i figd id fit in my favorite bowl of cereal.. funny guys if u look at the cals and macros for meal 1 .. i used to eat that 5 or more nites per week rite before bed! no wonder i was 22%bf huh? LOL

----------


## --->>405<<---

deplete days (broccoli only cuz im hardcore like that.. he said i could have starch but im goin with the broc!)

deplete @50g carbs and 1400cals

carb up @1250g carb 

days 6 & 7 gets a little tuffer to figure  :Smilie:  this is how ive got day 6:

2800cals with 20% reduction in cals coming strictly from carbs.. which is 560 cals = 140g carbs

he suggests 60%carb/ 25%pro/ 15%fat plus reduction puts me to: 2240cals
280g carbs
175g pro
47g fat

day 7 same reduction of 20% on total cals.. carbs at 1.5 per lb lbm (166lbm) and pro at 1g per lb lbm, rest of cals from fat : 2800 maintenance
2240cals
250g carbs (split in meals 1, 2, 3) <--- rest of 3 meals broc only
166g protein (split 6 ways)
64g fat (whatevers left after protein will prob come from nat PB)

----------


## RaginCajun

wow 405, you are really getting serious! definitely motivating!

----------


## slfmade

> carb load: 6017cals
> 220g pro
> 1244g carbs
> 46g fat
> 
> meal 1 (PWO) : 946/54p/171c/6f
> 1banana, 2 serv skim milk, 1serv frosted mini wheats, 2 serv honey bunches oats
> 
> meal2: 772/32p/153c/9f
> ...


LMFAO!!!! You really like that sugar free jam huh? I love it too, but DAMN....you're gonna go through like 2 bottles a day. lol

It sounds freakin awesome though. I would love to do all those carbs...tasty!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL.. yeh i gotta have strawberry jam for flavor.. 5g carbs per serving so only 125g carbs out of 1250 i hope its ok  :Smilie:

----------


## slfmade

> LOL.. yeh i gotta have strawberry jam for flavor.. 5g carbs per serving so only 125g carbs out of 1250 i hope its ok


Are you doing smuckers? If so the blueberry is really good! It even has tiny bits of blueberries in it. Still sugar free though somehow!

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh smuckers.. sounds good .. will try it out  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well got to bed at 0130 and woke back up to go back to work at 0530.. ugh.. what kind of workout to do today is the question  :Wink:  i tell u one thing.. i could get used to eating at maintenance cals i know thats for sure.. 

1egg 5 whites 1 cup oats is a great way to start the day!  :Smilie: 

boy who woulda thought id be excited about something like that LOL>>>

----------


## Back In Black

Still reading, just checking in.

Glutton for punishment you are!

Did I miss any questions?

----------


## --->>405<<---

I am a glutton for punishment yes  :Smilie: 

1 main question u missd.. Wat do u think?  :Smilie: 

Broad i know.. I sent u a pm a couple days ago ...

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well its bedtime  :Smilie:  lot to do tomorrow.. 0430cardio .. 0700work.. 1200depletion workout #2 

See yall tomorrow

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

Glad to see you're following Lyle McDonald, dude is a genius. I've been subscribed to him for a year or 2 now and have learned so much from his articles. I haven't read his ud2.0 book but I've read a lot about it and will definitely be following your progress on that diet. 

What are your current goals either by weight or BF?

----------


## --->>405<<---

hey sarge thx for stoppn by  :Smilie:  i suppose my goal currently is visible 6pack 24/7 without flexing.. what bf% thats gonna take for me i dont know  :Smilie:  if i had to guess itd be @8%.. once i get there ill prob maintain a couple months then re-evaluate.. would like to add some more muscle.. maybe 20lbs worth.. and then stay @ 10%bf and cut down to 8% for the summer  :Smilie: thatd give me about 185lbs LBM.. and i suppose put my total weight @ 204lbs.. will prob consider a 10-12 week cycle in the fall to try to do so although TBH in my lifetime ive never bulked.. ive always been fat and cut down to prob 15% and then got fat again and cut to 15%.. back then i didnt know a dang thing about how to check bf% or what tdee was or even the concept of bulking.. my life has been cut-get fat-cut-get fat-cut.. now that i know what i know and try to natty bulk i may be able to gain 20lbs muscle without the cycle.. esp since ive eliminated my handicap of low test with TRT which i suppose makes me not really natty but whatever.. 

of course once i get there it mite not be enuff.. u know how it goes  :Smilie:  when i started this cut my goal was 12%.. LOL

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ also id like to note i like his idea of starting a bulk at 10% and running it in 8week increments with 2 weeks of maintenance in between 8 week cycles until i get to 15% then cutting back down to 10% and repeating.. the methodology of it makes sense and sets well with my requirement for organization in all matters  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

alright here it goes.. 

7day carb cycle diet ud2.0:

days 1-4 (start carb load on day 4 in pm eating 75% of calories of previous day before day 4 workout) :
1426cals
270g pro
64g carb
21g fat

basically: 5egg whites, 10 oz 96%ff burger, 24oz boneless chik, 1200g broc

*days 1 & 2 workouts* are total body depletion: 5-6 sets per bodypart 15reps.. compound movements.. 

*day 4 workout*: (pre w/o: 30g carbs, 15g whey 30 mins before ) 2-4 sets per bodypart at 70-85% 1 rep max for 6 -12 reps stopping 1 rep short of failure.. 1-2 mins rest between sets.. compound movements.. 2 exercises per bodypart.. 

day 4 PWO begin massive refeed:

*carb load*: 6017cals
220g pro
1244g carbs
46g fat

meal 1 (PWO) : 946/54p/171c/6f
1banana, 2 serv skim milk, 1serv frosted mini wheats, 2 serv honey bunches oats

meal2: 772/32p/153c/9f
1 banana, 2serv milk, 4serv sugar free jam, 1 1/2 cups oats

meal3; 888/33P/186C/5F
3 plain bagels, 4serv sugar free jam

meal4: 888/33p/186c/5f
3 plain bagels, 4serv sug free jam

meal5: 620/21p/128c/7f
2 plain bagels, 1cup oats, 4serv sug free jam

meal6: 643/22p/134c/2f
2oz barilla whole wheat angel hair pasta

meal7: 630/13p/134c/6f
1cup oats, 4serv sug free jam, 12oz sweet potato

meal8: 630/13p/134c/6f
1cup oats, 4serv sug free jam,

figure ill eat meals 1 & 2 on friday pm after HIT workout and meals 3-8 saturday

*day 6 diet :* 

run 20% below maintenance taking that 20% out of carbs only.. 

25%pro, 60%carb, 15%fat after 20% puts me at 2240cals (maintenance is 2800 which is 140g carbs)

actual diet: 2163cals, 193g pro, 288g carbs, 38g fat 
all food choices r good.. lean meat complex carbs only.. 5 meals

*day 6 workout:* POWER WORKOUT:3-6 WORking sets, 3-6 reps.. as heavy as i can go.. total body all compound movements.. 2 exercises per bodypart.. 

*DAY 7:** REST DAY* :

20% below maintenance again at ratio of:

1.5g carbs per lb LBM, 1g pro per lb LBM, rest of cals from fat.. eliminating starchy carbs after meal 3 to prep for start of cycle again ..

*CARDIO:*

will do fasted cardio tues and thurs consisting of:
5min warmup, 10mins HIIT, 5min rest (allow ffa release into blood), 20-40mins moderate at 3-4 rate of perceived exertion (out of 10)

will also fit in 2 other cardio sessions each week at moderate to low intensity pace prob am fasted as well... 

basically:
day 1-3: 1427cals (each day)
day 4-5: 7000cals (combined)
day 6 & 7: 2240cals (each day)

*15,761 total weekly cals* *(current carb cycle total weekly cals equal 15,300)*

the idea is with the depletion workouts and diet in the beginning of the week the body will be able to partition the nutrients more effectively during the refeed.. then maintenance (or slightly under) will help recover before starting again.. 

thoughts?  :Smilie:  thx..

----------


## baseline_9

U considered slin on the carb up?

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ in case u missed it i posted the whole deal above base.. 

no i havent.. dont know how to use or what it would do to help?? i read in another guys thread awhile back he was gonna use it but i havent researched it to see what it does..

on a side note how do u get ur avi bigger??

----------


## baseline_9

> ^^ in case u missed it i posted the whole deal above base.. 
> 
> no i havent.. dont know how to use or what it would do to help?? i read in another guys thread awhile back he was gonna use it but i havent researched it to see what it does..
> 
> on a side note how do u get ur avi bigger??


If you dont know about insulin then dont bother until you have read a lot about it...

It would further help the partitioning process during the carb up.


I would do the following cardio.... Day 1 AM+PWO, Day 2 AM+PWO, Day 3 AM, Day 4 AM... That is the depletion phase and I would do all that I can to kill it...

Big avi's are for Staff... Sorry bud

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^thx bro  :Smilie:  i may chek it out over some and see what its about..

after day 4 forget cardio again til day 1? except maybe day 7 pm to try and burn out some glycogen the nite before going back into the depletion phase?

----------


## --->>405<<---

good cardio session this am fellas.. fasted:

5min warmup
10min HIIT
5min rest
25min moderate

i tell u im startn to feel a little guilty eating at maintenance cals.. i can be a little obsessive when it comes to my diet.. would hate to gain any fat.. 

basically eating:
2800cals
300g pro
300g carbs
50g fat

have 5 more days at this then start new diet..

----------


## baseline_9

I have not read the stubborn fat soloution... Is one of the concepts HIT cardio at he start of a LIC cardio session?

I take it this is to help mobilise fatty acids quicker and get more benefit from the long duration LIC...

Can u bullet point the main differences between UD2.0 and SFS or are they completely different?

----------


## --->>405<<---

ud2.0 is diet and weightlifting program.. he mentions cardio but doesnt get into specifics..

sfs teaches about fat , the difft types, the way hormones relate to its storage and oxidation and then he provides u with 4 cardio protocols to utilize to help mobilize and get rid of it.. there arent any real dietary instructions like there are with ud2.0

also SFS is for people @10% bf trying to get to 6-8%.. whereas ud2.0 can be used ranging from 10-15%..

----------


## --->>405<<---

and yes the HIIT in the beginning mobilizes fat into the blood and then the 5minute rest allows time for it to concentrATE or build up in the blood and the moderate is basically to burn it off.. SFP 2.0 has another HIIT session attached to the end..

----------


## RaginCajun

> I have not read the stubborn fat soloution... Is one of the concepts HIT cardio at he start of a LIC cardio session?
> 
> I take it this is to *help mobilise fatty acids quicker* and get more benefit from the long duration LIC...
> 
> Can u bullet point the main differences between UD2.0 and SFS or are they completely different?





> ud2.0 is diet and weightlifting program.. he mentions cardio but doesnt get into specifics..
> 
> sfs teaches about fat , the difft types, the way hormones relate to its storage and oxidation and then he provides u with *4 cardio protocols to utilize to help mobilize and get rid of it*.. there arent any real dietary instructions like there are with ud2.0
> 
> also SFS is for people @10% bf trying to get to 6-8%.. whereas ud2.0 can be used ranging from 10-15%..



ok, now you have really interested in the science behind this, do tell!

----------


## Back In Black

RC get a copy man. It's an awesome read.

----------


## RaginCajun

> RC get a copy man. It's an awesome read.


.


i may have to go look for it at lunch time

----------


## --->>405<<---

> RC get a copy man. *It's an awesome read*.


done some reading have you?  :Wink:

----------


## Back In Black

> done some reading have you?


Bloody SFS thing is preventing me doing my chores! And may prolong my cut!!!!!!!!

RC, pm baseline he should be able to email you. Or PM me and I'll try

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL^^ the good thing is we can learn from each other  :Smilie:  wat u think bout yohimbine hcl plus tyrosine?

----------


## Back In Black

> LOL^^ the good thing is we can learn from each other  wat u think bout yohimbine hcl plus tyrosine?


Ha , you're way ahead of me on the reading. I have tried, and liked, yohimbine HCL in the past. Like clen and ECA it serves a purpose far better at a lower bodyfat %.

----------


## slfmade

You guys are a lot further in the book than me I guess. I'm about half way through SFS and I have even started the others. I guess I better get on it so I don't feel left behind. I am a little concerned with what GBrice said about it being outdated. I wish he would have elaborated on it a bit more.

----------


## --->>405<<---

I found the website with the book on a recommendation by gb.. He also said he didnt think itd do harm and combining ud2.0 and sfs would prob be a good combo.. 

Either way im running it.. Ive read it and it makes sense and the dude knows hit stuff.. Not to mention the amt of weekly cals ill be running r only 390 more than wat im running now.. And ill be working out harder and longer..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well its bed time for me  :Smilie:  gotta get up and do fasted cardio again.. I tell u im re-motivated in my approach to am cardio due to eating maintenance cals (which i dont enjoy  :Smilie: )

----------


## --->>405<<---

well another day!  :Smilie:  woke up this am and did SFP1.0 which i am glad i did.. today at some point i have to do HIT workout.. am planning on doing it in the pm cuz thats when its scheduled to be dun.. this will be my first HIT style weight session EVER! curious to see how it is? im sure when i finish ill regret that curiosity but after being off yesterday combined with eating maintenance cals im ready for a hard hitting make me wanna puke workout  :Smilie: 

id also like to note my muscles just "feel" like theyre ready to grow.. they just need a little stimulation.. prob due to the fact that im eatn 2800cals for the 5th day in a row which is unprecedented for me..

----------


## bikeral

Morning 405, another great day to kill it in the gym. Tear it up bro.

----------


## Back In Black

My ideal cardio has always been 10-15 mins HIIT immediately followed by 20-30 mins LIC. But I will start putting a 5 min rest inbetween. Does Lyle suggest this protocol for fasted and post lifting cardio too?

I will get to it in the book at some point!

----------


## slfmade

What does your HIT workout look like?

----------


## --->>405<<---

4 working sets (6-12reps) stop 1 rep short of failure.. (70-85% 1rep max)

leg press/squat 2 x 6-12
leg curl 2 x 6-12
leg extension 1-2 x 6-12
leg curl 1-2 x 6-12
calf raise 3-4 x 6-12
flat bench 2 x 6-12
cable row 2 x 6-12
incline bench 1-2 x 6-12
pulldown or weighted chin 1-2 x 6-12
lat raise 2-3 x 6-12
bicep curl 2 x 6-12
tricep pushdown 2 x 6-12

can superset alternate bodyparts (flat bench/bent row etc..)1-2mins rest tween sets

----------


## --->>405<<---

> My ideal cardio has always been 10-15 mins HIIT immediately followed by 20-30 mins LIC. But I will start putting a 5 min rest inbetween. Does Lyle suggest this protocol for fasted and post lifting cardio too?
> 
> I will get to it in the book at some point!


fasted is ok yes.. pwo i dont recall him saying but he may have..

id also like to note i was browsing his website and he answers questions people ask him occasionally.. well someone askd him bout bcaas prior to fasted cardio and im pretty sure he said fasted is water only..not bcaa.. its on his site ill try to find it.. ive been doing all my fasted cardio as of late with no bcaa and do 20g post fasted cardio..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Mat on May 14th, 2010 6:10 pm

Lyle:
Thanks for providing this valuable information on this webpage and the support forums.
A question about BCAA (yet again) and your SFP 2.0.
Okay, in order not to inhibit fat mobilization/ transportation, we do not want to consume any BCAAs prior to SFP 2.0.
However, at bf levels <10% muscle catabolism might be a concern under fasting conditions.
So, would consuming BCAAs during the second phase of the SFP help in preventing muscle catabolism?

lylemcd on May 16th, 2010 9:05 pm
Matt: BCAA raises insulin .

----------


## Back In Black

I'll keep going how I am on my PWO cardio, it works anyway.

Next week will be my last week of fasted cardio and it will likely be only twice but I'll try the aboe principle of HIIT, rest and LIC.

I agree it isn't truly fasted with BCAA's. Or even if you drink black coffee. But you would be through whatever cals 10g BCAA's have in them in no time, despite the insulin spike (which does happen). I'm gonna stick with my BCAA's though I mostly use them during my lifting more than any other time.

On a side note my Mrs has just started the Dukan diet. Just as I end my cut!!!!!!!!!! So now I don't HAVE to cheat night on a Saturday night. Means I can properly plan my maintenance period, yay!

----------


## Back In Black

> What does your HIT workout look like?


Mine?

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i took the wife out for a date nite last nite.. figd id finish this week of maintenance cals off with a cheat meal  :Smilie:  we went to carabbas and it was tasty.. i had 2 cheese sticks, bread and oil, salad, filet marsala with green beans, unsweet tea, and a peanut butter and jelly sandwich (and a half  :Smilie: ) before bed.. now its no cheats til i go on the cruise...5 weeks of strait diet.. which by now is no prob for me  :Smilie:

----------


## slfmade

So at first I was wondering what you guys were talking about with calories in BCAA's. I use purple wraath and it says O caloires, but after reading this I was thinking it didn't sound right. So, after a little research, I found that the FDA doesn't classify BCAA's as pro,carb,or fat, and if it's not a pro,carb, or fat...it apparently doesn't count even if it has calories.

It makes me wonder how many things out there are over what the labels say, but because how the FDA works, aren't allowed to put it on the label.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well went on a 5mile run at lunch today to get in the cardio.. more work than i really felt like doing though TBH... ive noticed this week ive been a bit lazy.. especially the last day or 2.. maybe its all the carbs? like running today i felt heavy on my feet .. of course i did the total body HIT workout yesterday.. though i am curious as to wat classified the workout as HIT? was it cuz the weight was 70-85% 1rep max and rep range was 6-12? or did i just think i did a HIT workout and really didnt? there was no rest pause or whatever the other on is  :Wink:

----------


## slfmade

> well went on a 5mile run at lunch today to get in the cardio.. more work than i really felt like doing though TBH... ive noticed this week ive been a bit lazy.. especially the last day or 2.. maybe its all the carbs? like running today i felt heavy on my feet .. of course i did the total body HIT workout yesterday.. though i am curious as to wat classified the workout as HIT? was it cuz the weight was 70-85% 1rep max and rep range was 6-12? or did i just think i did a HIT workout and really didnt? there was no rest pause or whatever the other on is


I was a bit curious about this as well. It doesn't sound like any HIT program that I've heard of before. HIT is just really high intensity...really destroying the muscle on the positives, negatives, etc. You can do this with dropsets, static pause, rest pause, negatives, forced negatives, etc. I don't see any of those listed there, so I'm not sure what he meant

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^well whatever it actually is ill be doing it next week  :Smilie: 

day 6 at maintenance and i can barely keep my eyes open im tired as heck! been eating about 300g carbs per day for 6 consecutive days..

----------


## --->>405<<---

2more days of carbs and then it starts  :Smilie:  im ready.. I never thought eating at maintenance wpuld be so mentally challenging.. I suppose its cuz im not thru cutting.. And i dont wanna lose any of my progress and im not absolutely certain wat my actual maint cals r.. My tdee is 3100 and im eatn 2800 so i oughta be close.. 

Ive come to the realization today i may have to alter my work schedule even more than i have.. The depletion workouts (to be dun properly) will take 2minutes per set and i have 42 sets to do.. Theres no way i can do that in 1hr.. Which is how long i have at lunch.. This means ill have to do it at nite which sux cuz ive always lifted at lunch.. 

But i suppose sacrifices have to be made if i wanna properly do this diet.. Its important that i make sure my glycogen is fully depleted to justify the 1250g carb refeed on friday nite/saturday.. So thats how its gonna have to be.. At least for the next five weeks..

----------


## slfmade

Good Luck to you! I'm looking forward to seeing your progress on this type of diet. Who knows...if it's successful, I may give it a go! Since we're both around the same stats....I'm gonna use you as my guinea pig! LOL

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ im looking forward too! A welcome change and challenge! Which i love  :Smilie:  i feel like a kid and christmas is tuesday.. Isnt that sad since were just talkn bout a diet amd workout routine LOL..

On apositive side note.. I made an awesome discovery tonite i wish i woulda found months ago but just glad i discovered it at all (and it may have been obvious to some but not to me).. 

Cottage cheese with sugar free strawberry jam mixd in!! AWESOME!! i highly recommend u try it! I liked my cottage cheese plain.. But ill never eat it plain again!

----------


## slfmade

> ^^ im looking forward too! A welcome change and challenge! Which i love  i feel like a kid and christmas is tuesday.. Isnt that sad since were just talkn bout a diet amd workout routine LOL..
> 
> On apositive side note.. I made an awesome discovery tonite i wish i woulda found months ago but just glad i discovered it at all (and it may have been obvious to some but not to me).. 
> 
> Cottage cheese with sugar free strawberry jam mixd in!! AWESOME!! i highly recommend u try it! I liked my cottage cheese plain.. But ill never eat it plain again!


If you wanta try something even better....put some sugar free jello mix into it. Browngirl does it and LOVES it. She even gets the fat free/sugar free cool whip and mixes it in. I've tried it and it's pretty good.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Hmm fat free sugar free coolwhip.. Telln tHe wife as we speak LOL..

----------


## slfmade

That make fat free sugar free everything these days. I was using sugar free immitation honey there for a little while!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well good day off.. Had church function and had a couple burgers and a dog and some chips.. Now back on diet for 5 weeks 100%.. tomorrow is last maintenance day.. 

Weighed in at 185.6 this am .. Down .4 lbs from last week which isgiod considering i ate maintenance all week.. Bf % about thesame.. 

Also did a 9site chek thru another program and it came back at 9.09%

----------


## slfmade

Nice work! At least you know now what you can eat without gaining fat.

I must've missed it somewhere. Where are you going on your cruise?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Haiti, jamaica, grand cayman, cozumel...

----------


## --->>405<<---

Im allowing myself 10lbs.. Over 7days.. LOL

----------


## slfmade

> Haiti, jamaica, grand cayman, cozumel...


Ooooo. That sounds fun! Is this your first cruise?

----------


## slfmade

> Im allowing myself 10lbs.. Over 7days.. LOL


LOL - Is that including alcohol???

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ i dont drink  :Smilie:  

Gave that up 4yrs ago... So dammit im eAtin!

----------


## slfmade

Good for you on giving up drinking if you had a problem with it. I LOVE MY BEER! It's the saddest part of dieting for me. I've never had a problem with drinking though.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ive shifted my focus to diet and exercise LOL  :Smilie: 

I tried the oat pancakes today! Freakin awesome! I had 2 whole recipes today.. Am having 2 more tomorrow.. 1 recipe has :589cals/59pro/67carb/11fat

Just about a perfect split! And theyre freaking delicious with sugar free syrup or jam  :Smilie: 

Healthy bread man.. Healthy bread!! A new staple for me.. I suggest u try if u havent already.. Seriously..

----------


## slfmade

> Ive shifted my focus to diet and exercise LOL 
> 
> I tried the oat pancakes today! Freakin awesome! I had 2 whole recipes today.. Am having 2 more tomorrow.. 1 recipe has :589cals/59pro/67carb/11fat
> 
> Just about a perfect split! And theyre freaking delicious with sugar free syrup or jam 
> 
> Healthy bread man.. Healthy bread!! A new staple for me.. I suggest u try if u havent already.. Seriously..


Healthy Bread???? I used to eat slimmers pancakes every day...I'm assuming you're talking about slimmers recipe? I don't know what you mean by healthy bread though

----------


## --->>405<<---

I mean theyre like freakin bread man  :Smilie:  the closest thing ive had to bread (other than cheats) in 6months..

----------


## slfmade

That gives me and idea. Oat soft tortilla 96/4 beef tacos!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

:Smilie: LOL.. good idea! Prob not a bad sandwich maker either.. Esp with natty pb and sugar free jam  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

BreAkfast: 4 oat pancakes.. Mmmmm good  :Smilie:  ican get used to it.. After today no carbs til friday pm.. Lookn good in mirror.. The 9 days at maintenance havent affected my weight.. If anything im a touch leaner!

----------


## Back In Black

> BreAkfast: 4 oat pancakes.. Mmmmm good  ican get used to it.. After today no carbs til friday pm.. Lookn good in mirror.. The 9 days at maintenance havent affected my weight.. If anything im a touch leaner!


And to think, a few weeks ago you were scared to go at maintenance for a week! Good work man, the next few days may be tough, keep at it!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ill be keepn u pksted for sure  :Smilie:  im looking forward to tuff.. Last week was too easy except for the mental part of wondering how my bf would turn out at maintenance..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Hit It hard at lunch.. Did a 1 mile walk and bought a pair of flip flops.. Im beat!  :Wink:

----------


## slfmade

Nice work! What is your waist at now??? I measured yesterday and I'm down from a 38 to a 32 in less than a year. I'm pretty happy. I can shop in the "regular people's" department again. LOL

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ yeh the tape is 33".. Which im fine with.. Can wear 32"clothes.. A first for me since i was like 10 LOL.. its nice buying clothes and not having fat come into the equation!

----------


## bikeral

> Im allowing myself 10lbs.. Over 7days.. LOL


That's about how much I gained on vacation last month before I started my log. Went to an all inclusive in Dominican Republic and just ate for a week straight. I think I had an egg white omelet the first day and it was all down hill from there. Definitively worth it had a great time and that weight is gone already. Enjoy

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well tomorrow is the big day#1.. 1400cals/250pro/60carb(broc only)/18fat 

Start eca stack again as well.. Have 1300start at work so am workout.. Will eat before i lift.. Above will be my diet until friday night.. Wish me luck  :Wink: 

Basically: 
10oz beef
24oz chkn
1200g broc
5egg whites

Thats it!

----------


## slfmade

Good Luck!!! :Wink/Grin:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Halfway thtu first depletion wkout.. 19sets x 15 reps at 2 sec down/ 1 sec up complete and im past tired almost dead and i have to do it again.. Took 43 mins.. Got 43 more to go.. 

Nausea and lightheaded like a mofo.. On plus side abs r showing more today than ever .. Prib take a pic for yall to mark tart of this diet  :Smilie:  here we go again.. This is insane!

----------


## havehotasianwife

> Well tomorrow is the big day#1.. 1400cals/250pro/60carb(broc only)/18fat 
> 
> Start eca stack again as well.. Have 1300start at work so am workout.. Will eat before i lift.. Above will be my diet until friday night.. Wish me luck 
> 
> Basically: 
> 10oz beef
> 24oz chkn
> 1200g broc
> 5egg whites
> ...


Good job buddy. since you help me on my log, I'll start viewing yours! seems really interesting. didnt know you had one. anyways.. question about ECA.. from your experience, do you notice helping slim you down? or do you use it meerly as an appetite suppressant while your on a lower calorie per day diet plan???

the reason i ask is because there was all the hoopla about it ten or so years being SO DANGEROUS.. and then by the time i was old enough to be dedicated to training (24 i started really, and now i am almost 26) i honestly felt like it was nothing.. and the media over blown everything? 

when i am on it (just finished last dose sunday) it seems more like a appetite suppressant to mean compared to a thermogenic, as my body seems to only heat up the first time i take it during the 4 week cycle and then never again until i start another 4 week cycle every so often?

----------


## Back In Black

Well Mr 405, my final fasted cardio (for a while) this morning was

5 min warm up
5 min 90% HIIT
5 min rest
20 mins LIC
5 mins 80% Intervals
5 mins cooldown

Certainly made it less boring than 45 mins LIC!

Had to have BCAA before though.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Good job buddy. since you help me on my log, I'll start viewing yours! seems really interesting. didnt know you had one. anyways.. question about ECA.. from your experience, do you notice helping slim you down? or do you use it meerly as an appetite suppressant while your on a lower calorie per day diet plan??? *i think it helped me slim down some yes.. not to mention the appetite suppressant indirectly helps u slim down* 
> 
> the reason i ask is because there was all the hoopla about it ten or so years being SO DANGEROUS.. and then by the time i was old enough to be dedicated to training (24 i started really, and now i am almost 26) i honestly felt like it was nothing.. and the media over blown everything? *i think done in moderation and initiated properly its pretty safe.. i started on a half dose 1x per day, then 2x per day, then 3x per day, then whole dose 1x per day with 2 half doses etc..etc.. until i was at 3 full doses just to make sure i did ok with it.. and i did.. that to me is the proper and conservative way to approach it* 
> 
> when i am on it (just finished last dose sunday) it seems more like a appetite suppressant to mean compared to a thermogenic, as my body seems to only heat up the first time i take it during the 4 week cycle and then never again until i start another 4 week cycle every so often?


 *for me the appetite suppression subsided by the end of week 2 but the rest of it seemed to get stronger.. ( speediness mainly.. never noticed a temperature change)*

*ive had this log going for awhile  u dont pay alot of attention to the main page do u?*

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Well Mr 405, my final fasted cardio (for a while) this morning was
> 
> 5 min warm up
> 5 min 90% HIIT
> 5 min rest
> 20 mins LIC
> 5 mins 80% Intervals
> 5 mins cooldown
> 
> ...


i hear ya bro! i havent tried the HIIT at the end yet.. how was it? also if ur dun cutting u gonna post some pics?  :Wink:

----------


## Back In Black

The end HIIT isn't really HIIT because it's only an RPE of 70-80%. Byt they were a little tough, first thing in the morning and I'd done HIIT only 16hrs previously!

Pics? Oh my, why not. Officially I end my cut this coming Sunday so I'll see if I can get them done then. Before my pre maintenance cheat meals(s)! But I'm a skinny bugger at about 168lbs at 5'11"

----------


## --->>405<<---

well guys i gotta say depletion workout one was by far the tuffest weightlifting session ive ever done! it took 1hr 45mins and i basically was "under tension" for 45 secs with a 60-75sec break for a solid hr and 45mins.. i did take a 7min break between rounds and did total body for 39 sets.. all on zero carbs.. 

and i have to do it again tomorrow!

i can see why this routine coupled with diet gets rid of stubborn fat.. 10-12%bf is the required percentage to do this workout and diet and i can see after today that anyone who is not at this level of fitness could prob not complete the workout anyways..

----------


## --->>405<<---

> The end HIIT isn't really HIIT because it's only an RPE of 70-80%. Byt they were a little tough, first thing in the morning and I'd done HIIT only 16hrs previously!
> 
> Pics? Oh my, why not. Officially I end my cut this coming Sunday so I'll see if I can get them done then. Before my pre maintenance cheat meals(s)!* But I'm a skinny bugger at about 168lbs at 5'11"*


hey dude its all about personal preference  :Smilie:  my focus is mainly on bf%.. LBM and size is purely secondary and always will be! genetically i just happen to carry a fair amt of muscle cuz im by nature a "stocky" guy.. but i dont care as much about how much LBM i have as i do how little fat have  :Smilie:

----------


## havehotasianwife

> *for me the appetite suppression subsided by the end of week 2 but the rest of it seemed to get stronger.. ( speediness mainly.. never noticed a temperature change)*
> 
> *ive had this log going for awhile  u dont pay alot of attention to the main page do u?*


lol i do!! but me and you didnt really being buds until last weekend... so i just guess i never really payed attention to this page until now.

----------


## --->>405<<---

also i must say people are really starting to notice me now.. i have people asking fitness advice and all kinds of stuff.. people tend to gravitate towards discussing diet and fitness with me as their way of making small talk.. its funny.. i suppose i exude fitness more now than i ever have  :Smilie:

----------


## havehotasianwife

its those duck pheromone suppositories that your using now to boost testosterone my friend  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL.. howd u know i was taking those? i like the "extra large" ...

----------


## havehotasianwife

because we can smell our own kind....i prefer osterich egg suppositories,, i find they provide me with enough energy pre-workout and fill me up

----------


## --->>405<<---

u enjoy being full i know  :Smilie: 

well guys heres a set of pics i took saturday.. this will mark my starting point on UD2.0 

well see how i fare after 5 weeks ill post another set.. id also like to note the camera was taken from below which makes my waist look bigger than it actually is i promise  :Wink: 

also i remembered taking pics rite before i started the carb cycle so the first pic is of just that.. for comparison of how 1month on carb cycle affected my bf%.. appears i lost some bf but its slow going which is why ive stepped it up  :Smilie:

----------


## havehotasianwife

great job dude.. right now your about where i want to be when i get done with my first round of bodyopus. keep up the good work

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx man  :Smilie:  i intend to..

----------


## --->>405<<---

btw asian how long is 1 round? its taken me 6months to get here..

----------


## havehotasianwife

depends how it goes.. but with my asian wife helping me with the math,, supposedly 21 weeks.
i am currently slightly below 15% although in my opinion i feel higher because i store it on my lower belly and love handles. even though i get pretty vascular everywhere else... oh well though,, everybody has a spot that is there trouble spot right?

----------


## --->>405<<---

yes for sure.. mine is the love handle area as well as in the chest..

----------


## bikeral

Great job bro. You should throw in a pic from your start last year for those that have not been back that far to see the transformation.

----------


## havehotasianwife

i agree, do a side by side pic

----------


## --->>405<<---

another observation id like to make note of.. it took a few days for me to figure out what was going on but as yall know last week i ran maintenance for like 9 days.. part of that was 300g carbs.. well i noticed then and even more now that i have more energy with less carbs.. or more accurately zero starchy carbs.. ive had more energy today than last week for sure.. now i realize i am on eca today whcih im sure helps but all last week i was tired and lazy and on the verge of sleep as well as hungry most of the time.. so far today ive had 3 out of 5 meals and my total cals today are 1400 and ive prob only eaten about 900cals thus far.. thought that was interesting..

dont get me wrong i love eating the carbs but they seem to make me sleepy and lazy!

----------


## jpowell

looking good bro. wats ur current stats, as of today ?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx man.. 186lbs (9site caliper)9.09%Bf

----------


## Back In Black

Ah, carb coma's! I remember them well!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Ah, carb coma's! I remember them well!


yeh funny  :Smilie:  thats a good description..

well i woke up this am and did me 40mins fasted cardio.. with cardio anymore (except when i do HIIT in the beginning) im mainly just bored.. my HR today was tuff to keep at 135BPM on the same setting i used when i was fat that put me to 155-160BPM.. it didnt seem any less effortful (<--that word looks weird for some reason?) as far as how much energy it required but it was easier to breathe than before and my HR was lower.. 

at lunch today i get to do depletion workout round #2.. boy am i excited after yesterday  :Wink:

----------


## havehotasianwife

> Thx man.. 186lbs (9site caliper)9.09%Bf


did you use my spreadsheet?  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

spreadsheet?

----------


## havehotasianwife

you get my PM @405 ?

----------


## SlimmerMe

Happy to hear you joined in on the pancakes.....

----------


## havehotasianwife

hey slimmer, can you PM me the pancake recipe?  :Smilie:  i would be much thankful  :Smilie:

----------


## slfmade

I've been out for a couple days and it seems I've missed a bit. Nice work!!! Keep it up

----------


## havehotasianwife

welcome slfmade! seen you around, and never have I said hello before.. i read your log too, great work

----------


## slfmade

> welcome slfmade! seen you around, and never have I said hello before.. i read your log too, great work


Hello and thanks

----------


## --->>405<<---

Oh my freaking goodness!!! Ugh... 

Just finished depletion workout #2... needless to say im exhausted.. Yesterday it took 1:43.. Today it took 2:07.. And that wasnt 2 hrs of me picking my nose at the water fountain(we dont have one) or looking at myself in the mirror.. It was 44 sets x 15 reps of the most exhausting exercise ive done in my life..

One weird thing ive noticed is today and yesterday about 1/2 the way thru i stop sweating and my mouth gets real dry.. Id like to note i prob drank 80-100 oz water before i lifted so im confused? Is it cuz i havent had carbs since monday at lunch and so im still dehydrated even though i drink a ton of water? Cuz the first hr i sweat my butt off.. Then all of a sudden it stops.. Today it started back when i finished on legs.. 

Id also like to note that i take a break halfway thru and its when i start back i dont seem to sweat..?? Thank the Lord i dont have to lift again til friday! But i dont get any carbs til post workout friday.. This routine is freakng *BRUTAL!!*

----------


## RaginCajun

> Oh my freaking goodness!!! Ugh... 
> 
> Just finished depletion workout #2... needless to say im exhausted.. Yesterday it took 1:43.. Today it took 2:07.. And that wasnt 2 hrs of me picking my nose at the water fountain(we dont have one) or looking at myself in the mirror.. It was 44 sets x 15 reps of the most exhausting exercise ive done in my life..
> 
> One weird thing ive noticed is today and yesterday about 1/2 the way thru i stop sweating and my mouth gets real dry.. Id like to note i prob drank 80-100 oz water before i lifted so im confused? Is it cuz i havent had carbs since monday at lunch and so im still dehydrated even though i drink a ton of water? Cuz the first hr i sweat my butt off.. Then all of a sudden it stops.. Today it started back when i finished on legs.. 
> 
> Id also like to note that i take a break halfway thru and its when i start back i dont seem to sweat..?? Thank the Lord i dont have to lift again til friday! But i dont get any carbs til post workout friday.. This routine is freakng *BRUTAL!!*



44 sets is a lot of anything! maybe your body cooled itself off in that time and it doesn't 'feel' the need to sweat, or cool off? this is good that you are very aware of your body, looking to see what others say.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well guys i woke up this morning sore as heck and stiff and a little tired so..no cardio... i may do some at lunch but im not gonna beat myself up about it thats for sure  :Smilie: 

other than that everythings good.. 1400cals isnt too bad.. i suppose cuz my previous carb cycle was 3 days at 1800 so not a lot of difference there.. ECA does help as well.. this is my last full day in deficit.. tomorrow is the highly anticipated carb LOAD!  :Smilie:  1250g carbs.. i cant wait! alot of guys ingest a fair amt of their carbs with liquid but im doing all food! i like to eat  :Wink:

----------


## bikeral

No cardio what a biatch j/k  :Wink/Grin: 

Enjoy your carb load tomorrow.

----------


## havehotasianwife

enjoy carbs!!!! almost friday for me!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well just so yall dont think im a total sorry butt im gonna go to the tanning bed and then do a 5mile run about 1800  :Smilie:

----------


## BrownGirl

Have fun! And enjoy your carb load!

----------


## bikeral

> well just so yall dont think im a total sorry butt im gonna go to the tanning bed and then do a 5mile run about 1800


I have a lot of respect for ya. Just busting balls and hopefully motivating you.

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ nah its cool man  :Smilie:  i appreciate it.. i tend to push myself fairly well.. managed 5miles tonite in under 40mins which was a bit tuff since all ive had carb-wise since monday is broccoli.. i got it dun though  :Smilie: 

tomorrow this time im sure im gonna be dead tired.. but ill have a belly full of cereal!

----------


## bikeral

Fantastic. Enjoy

----------


## --->>405<<---

alright guys another 11hrs or so and the carb load begins  :Smilie:  ive been feeling kinda crappy and extremely tired the last 24-36hrs.. i suppose due to the depletion workouts and cardio.. maybe ive never depleted glycogen before.. def never felt like i have with the fatigue and slight nausea as well as upset stomach (in the last 36hrs) even with my previous carb cycle.. 

one big workout stands between me and 1250g carbs.. i am supposed to be noticeably leaner sunday after the carb load as well as have fuller muscles.. we'll see.. i must say i look leaner now but flat  :Smilie:  weighed 182.0 this am..

----------


## Back In Black

Are you doing pics this weekend? I shall be very upset if you look better than me :Wink: 

Good luck with the carb load mate, I know you are looking forward to it but I used to feel over full, fat and bloated by the end of only 500g carbs in 18 hours!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Are you doing pics this weekend? I shall be very upset if you look better than me
> 
> Good luck with the carb load mate, I know you are looking forward to it but I used to feel over full, fat and bloated by the end of only 500g carbs in 18 hours!


pics i can do.. we'll see howi look after the carb load.. and i like to eat and have a huge appetite! itll be interesting to see how i fare.. ill be sure to keep a running update..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well the carb load has begun! Man it was a great first meal:

1 banana
16oz orange juice
2 scoops whey
1 1/2 cups oats

Only been an hour and im ready for meal 2.. *The CEREAL!! yeh*

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ he also suggests creatine loading so i had 6g of creatine too.. The workout went well.. No problem.. I suppose the oj helped  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well the carb load is going great (as i figured it would).. ive had 6 bagels this am so far.. 2more to go plus 3cups oats and 36oz sweet potatoes.. im trying to pace myself or i could run out of food! i can eat man  :Smilie:

----------


## bikeral

Dude I am jealous. Enjoy it. Hope you have a great weekend.

----------


## JohnnnyBlazzze

Under 10% bf now? Good work man, i've jumped into this a little late but from the start i see you were at 21%. Quite an accomplishment! Looking forward to the pics.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i had a long lunch (2hrs) and went to my moms house.. finished off my 8 bagels and a cup of oats and had to take a nap LOL.. 

SteM so u know im finding i have to pace myself on these carbs so i dont run out of food! 1250g isnt that hard to eat in 24hrs... ive got 2 cups oats and 36oz sweet potatoes left to go and im hungry rite now! gonna wait til 1500 to eat some sweet pot but i could finish all i have left and still have alot of time and prob hunger before bed if i wanted to..

----------


## baseline_9

Looking forward to seeing pics if you can post them tommorow the day after carbing up....

I bet the first few card meals felt amazing...

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Looking forward to seeing pics if you can post them tommorow the day after carbing up....
> 
> I bet the first few card meals felt amazing...


dude it was freaking awesome! especially that 950calorie bowl of cereal i hadnt had in literally 6months! the 10 bagels ive eaten since last nite and today with fat free creme cheese and sugar free jam were awesome too! i cant wait til next week to do that again!LOL.. 

yeh ill be taking some pics tomorrow for sure.. startn to see veins in upper abs.. abs r showing thru little by little as well.. even getting veins in my quads now.. pretty cool!

----------


## Back In Black

Fair play mate, still sounds like a lot of food although I do love a bagel or 2 with marmalade and. I could probably stomach a lot of oats in one day.

Actually, today is the last day of my cut an I've been starving for about a month now. Reckon I could polish off a lot of grub if I allowed myself too! 

Hope you manage to ration the rest of the day!

Did your m say 'you look thin son' and offer to feed you up like my mam does?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Lol.. Funny u mention it.. She said, "son u look stacked, as we said in our day. Im glad i dont have to worry about anybody messing with u. You look so powerful." LOL.. then she askd my dad to comment on how muscular i look..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well its day6 of the 7 day cycle.. because i always chek my bf% on sunday mornings im sticking to it now.. its the day after the carb load and i think its a good day to do it anyways..

last week on march 28(5days ago) weighed 186lbs at 9.09% -->9site parillo

today weight: 183.5lbs at 8.17%bf -->9site parillo

will do it on sundays from here on out again.. so a def drop in bf and i appear leaner in the mirror and feel leaner as well  :Smilie:  so a good first week! 

not sure if weight is all the way back up from the carb load but i ate : 6599/263g pro/1302g carbs/53g fat consumed 200oz water and 20g creatine so i did everything right.. book says if i did it rite i should feel and be leaner which i am  :Smilie: and do..

----------


## Back In Black

Great work mate. That's a lot of cals:-)

Pics later?

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^yeh pics later  :Smilie: 

current total weekly cals = @15,200

previous carb cycle weekly cals = @15,300

so it works out  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

alright fellows time for the heavy workout.. will holler when im dun!  :Smilie:

----------


## JohnnnyBlazzze

Whatsup 405, Did you start your carb cycling once you got around 10% bf? and just stuck to basic high protein moderate carbs prior to 10%?

----------


## baseline_9

Sounds good.... BF dropping is a good sign that its working out for u... Pics every week from here on out along with the skin fold and the weight...

Lets see u get down to 6%!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Whatsup 405, Did you start your carb cycling once you got around 10% bf? and just stuck to basic high protein moderate carbs prior to 10%?


Thats exactly rite ... Except i dont know if ud call 100g carbs moderate..

305pro
101carb
55fat

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Sounds good.... BF dropping is a good sign that its working out for u... Pics every week from here on out along with the skin fold and the weight...
> 
> Lets see u get down to 6%!


6% would be awesome! Ive only got 28days and ill be on acruise ship.. During which time ill be eating pizza and burgers and pasta and cake andice cream LOL.. so if i cant get to6% in 4 weeks itll prob be awhile :Smilie:  imndoing 9site caliper test now and its saying 8.17% but i think im prob higher.. I am lean and only have a little fat beneath the skin.. Most of myprob areas are disappearing.. 

I figure i could gain 5-10lbs in a week on the cruise but i dont care!  :Smilie:  Im not gonna go crazy but i wont deprive myself either!

Pics tomorrow am.. Have to use laptop and it doesnt get internet at my house.. (i live in the boonies :Wink: )

----------


## --->>405<<---

morning fellows.. day 7 of ud2.0  :Smilie:  last carb day until friday again.. seems like im always on this day or low carb days during the carb cycle.. i have to eat all my carbs for the day in meals 1-4 and then taper off back to meat and veggies again.. yay... anyways i have some pics..

----------


## baseline_9

> morning fellows.. day 7 of ud2.0  last carb day until friday again.. seems like im always on this day or low carb days during the carb cycle.. i have to eat all my carbs for the day in meals 1-4 and then taper off back to meat and veggies again.. yay... anyways i have some pics..


Ur starting to look pretty sick man!!!

Nice work, I would love to see a pic of u just b4 u do ur carb load.... Just to compare b4 carb load and after.....

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok ill take a couple this friday am... i look like crap b4 carb load!  :Wink: 

thx for the compliment  :Smilie:  means alot coming from u..

----------


## Back In Black

Oh my, Mr 405!

Awesome work mate. Also get a side to side before and current pic on here right now!

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx man  :Smilie:  i tell ya im feeln really good! i appreciate all the help uve been to me!

----------


## bikeral

That is fvcking awesome 405. Time to change your avi.
I bet your wife will follow you everywhere you go on that cruise. :Wink/Grin:

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

Dayyyummn. Nice job man. 

You look great and should be very proud of what you've accomplished. Props to you.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> That is fvcking awesome 405. Time to change your avi.
> I bet your wife will follow you everywhere you go on that cruise.


LOL.. yeh she probably will  :Smilie:  thx man..

----------


## Back In Black

> thx man  i tell ya im feeln really good! i appreciate all the help uve been to me!


My absolute pleasure! I only started you off as I try and start others off. It's up to you how you follow it and apart it. Plenty of others have started and most have dropped by the wayside!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Dayyyummn. Nice job man. 
> 
> You look great and should be very proud of what you've accomplished. Props to you.


thx sarge!  :Smilie:

----------


## RaginCajun

405, you just continue to inspire. your consistentcy and dedication shows how hard you worked to get where you are at. looking good and like the others said, pat ya self on the back!

----------


## baseline_9

> thx man  i tell ya im feeln really good! i appreciate all the help uve been to me!


Am I right in saying this is pretty much a 6 month b4 and after shot....

AMAZING

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^^ yeh i started the cut basically october 1 2011..

----------


## NOSUPERMODEL

An absolute amazing transformation. I can only hope I get those kind of results.

----------


## JohnnnyBlazzze

Incredible transformation 405, hats off to yah...

----------


## jpowell

405, thas wat im talking bout. u look good as fuk! a motovator! a teacher! and a role model! good job bro!

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx fellas! jp, johnny, nsm  :Smilie:  it goes to show if i can do it yall can do it too! cuz i was a fat lazy bastard that liked to eat chikn wings and cereal LOL.. (i still do :Wink: )

----------


## slfmade

WOW! Nice work Man...you've earned it!

----------


## Viking13

Very impressive bro!! 

I start my Trt journey next month. Ive got my diet dialed in hardcore for the past month and dropped from 208 to 199 in 4 weeks. I hope that I look as good as you do bro once my hormones are right!! 

Congrats 405!! A great example of hard work and dedication.

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx slf and viking  :Smilie: 

well here we are again at my favorite time of the week.. high volume depletion and low carbs  :Smilie:  

the one good thing about this diet is im only doing cardio 2x per week which i enjoy! could prob get away with doing none but i havent reached that place in my mind yet.. cardio and lean go hand in hand in my head.. although i believe at this time it can be done without it.. especially when ur already lean..

----------


## bikeral

Morning 405, showed my wife your before and after pics last night. She couldn't believe that was 6 months.

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh im very pleased myself.. of course having lived through it it def seems like i did the necessary amount of work! and tell her i have witnesses! LOL

----------


## Back In Black

> Morning 405, showed my wife your before and after pics last night. She couldn't believe that was 6 months.


I can't believe how long it took either :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^LOL.. funny guy

----------


## --->>405<<---

well depletion day one is dun again.. man it didnt get any easier the second time around.. managed to get it dun during my lunch hr although i left a little early and got back a little late.. i forgot how painful it was from last week.. managed to go up on leg press without realizing it.. i didnt have time to check my weights from last week or write any down for this week.. ended up with 9plates on each side today and didnt realize that last week i only did 7 on each side til my last set  :Smilie: 

counted to 3 today on the way down instead of 2 to make sure i went slow enuff.. try that for 15 reps at 5-6 sets per bodypart for about 40 sets if u wanna feel some burn!

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ id also like to note yesterday i worked from 0700 to 0000 last nite and back today at 0800 and wont get off til prob 2300 and have to be back tomorrow at either 0700 or 0800.. point being--->> no excuses about not having enuff time to eat or "i work too much to work out"... dont wanna hear it!

----------


## havehotasianwife

nice new profile pic 405

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx dude

----------


## havehotasianwife

> thx man  i tell ya im feeln really good! i appreciate all the help uve been to me!


this is the first i saw these,, Fark dude! i know i dont know you in real life and only on the board,, but im really proud of you, and honored to call you my friend!! jeeze. also,, in my day 1 progress photos in bodyopus,, despite what the spreadsheet says for two weeks ago,, what would you rate my my bf% at?

----------


## havehotasianwife

^^^that was supposed to have your before and after pics in it,, but it didnt seem to port this into the quote as well...

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx asian.. ur too kind man  :Smilie:  im not real good at guessing bf% but ill check it out and tell u what i think..

how do i get to the pic again? can u post a link?

----------


## havehotasianwife

Post #26 ... keep in mind im pale and some of the defination you really have to look for haha!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well another long day done.. tomorrow is depletion day #2.. will be glad to get that over with.. i enjoy the workout but its tuff..

----------


## t-gunz

such a short time this kind of progress. seeing is beliving with this one

nice brother  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx tgunz.. 

well not alot to report since last nite.. just went home and went to bed.. no am cardio.. nothing really  :Smilie:  lunch today will be depletion hell number 2 for the week.. may try to squeeze in some cardio this afternoon/evening..

----------


## bikeral

Keep it up bro, how long till the cruise?

----------


## havehotasianwife

405, what cardio do you do during the week?

----------


## --->>405<<---

3weeks from saturday.. id also like to note i looked leaner this am than i looked yesterday in the mirror  :Smilie:  also when i was lying in bed last nite i noticed when i lifted my head off the pillow i could see my abs flexing! pretty cool! i mustve lifted my head 20times LOL...

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 405, what cardio do you do during the week?


rite now just 2 sessions per week.. both moderate steady state for 40 mins.. try to get one fasted and the other i make sure i havent eaten for 3hrs prior.. but im also on no starchy carbs so im sure that helps..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well guys im freaking spent!!!!!!!!!!!!! these depletion workouts r freaking ridiculously taxing... its all i can do just to sit up! im sure glad theyre done for the week.. working 40hrs in 3 days prob doesnt help.. coupled with no carbs...

----------


## bikeral

Way to go. Keep killing it. 3 weeks to all you can eat and plenty of eye candy.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Way to go. Keep killing it. 3 weeks to all you can eat and plenty of *eye candy*.


zero calorie LOL  :Smilie:

----------


## baseline_9

I would say its a safe bet to say if you feel like complete shit then your depletion is successful.... As long as you feel better when u carb up and can get through the week ur G2G


Im starting a similar thing where i deplete from sunday untill wednesday ( performing a lower body depletion and an upper body depletion session)... Then I spread an even amount of carbs over Thu Fri Sat (where i do a lower body hypertrophy and upper body hypertrophy session)...

So far so good

----------


## --->>405<<---

> *I would say its a safe bet to say if you feel like complete shit then your depletion is successful*.... As long as you feel better when u carb up and can get through the week ur G2G
> 
> 
> Im starting a similar thing where i deplete from sunday untill wednesday ( performing a lower body depletion and an upper body depletion session)... Then I spread an even amount of carbs over Thu Fri Sat (where i do a lower body hypertrophy and upper body hypertrophy session)...
> 
> So far so good


LOL.. solid logic bro.. i like the way u think!  :Smilie:  how many total sets per bodypart u doing for ur depletion wkouts? according to lyle it takes 10-12sets.. at 45secs under tension to deplete glycogen.. r u gonna start a thread?

----------


## havehotasianwife

i usually do 4 moves per body part for 3-4 sets each. 8-12 reps (and things like legs and traps i upp the reps because for me they seem to respond better when i do that.)

----------


## baseline_9

> LOL.. solid logic bro.. i like the way u think!  how many total sets per bodypart u doing for ur depletion wkouts? according to lyle it takes 10-12sets.. at 45secs under tension to deplete glycogen.. r u gonna start a thread?


Im doing 12-16 sets per bodypart (arms are less)

Lower depletion

Leg Extensions vs Leg curls 6-8 sets
Squats vs RDL's 6-8 sets


Upper Depletion

Push Ups vs Pulldowns 6 sets
Incline Hammer Press vs BB Rows 6 sets
Shoulder press vs Barbell Curls 6 sets
Side laterals vs pushdowns 6 sets
shrugs vs bench dips 6 sets


15 reps per exercise back to back... 45 seconds rest between different supersets...

I cant be bothered with a thread ATM bro.... All over the place TBH

----------


## FONZY007

Great job 405, I'm having g shoulder surgery on the 11th.. Well and the knee I don't know what's wrong with it I'm still limping around had fluid drained out of it twice...

----------


## JohnnnyBlazzze

Hey 405, what calculator or formula did you use when measuring your BF% with the calipers?

I'm trying to do mine correctly but i get different readings each time.

----------


## t-gunz

> 3weeks from saturday.. id also like to note i looked leaner this am than i looked yesterday in the mirror  also when i was lying in bed last nite i noticed when i lifted my head off the pillow i could see my abs flexing! pretty cool! i mustve lifted my head 20times LOL...


20 is that all? lol 

i would of looked about 1000 times and called it a workout lol

----------


## bikeral

Morning 405. What's on the agenda today?

----------


## --->>405<<---

morning al.. not alot today.. no lifting.. will prob do a 5mile run around noon after i go to the tanning bed  :Smilie: 

just gotta plug through day#3 of 1400cals and no carbs.. i get some tomorrow nite.. 300 g worth actually and then another 1000g saturday .. im also gonna look at my carbload diet and maybe do a few things difft.. mainly to focus on enjoyment .. an example would be instead on 1.5 cups oats pwo fri nite im gonna have oat pancakes cuz i simply love em and forgot about them last week.. ill also have a few more bagels i think .. really lookn forward to it!

another thing i noticed is when i give myself a shot of test i do it in the bathroom rite after i shower before i put on any clothes.. well i can actually sit down and i was checking around my "ex spare tire" for some fat to pinch and there isnt any! u know how when ur sitting down (maybe not u but me :Wink: )and ur gut rolls all up and the fat bunches all up everywhere.. u try to suck it in as best u can .. well i dont have to do that anymore!  :Smilie:  LOL.. 

its pretty cool man.. i look forward to u being able to do that soon! its worth all the workouts and deprivation.. also now that im lean i have made the discovery that once i start maintenance itll be pretty difficult to get fat again.. as long as i stick to my current food choices... i mean say one day im just real hungry and decide to eat 3500calories.. no big deal.. i actually have developed a taste for the food i eat currently..

id also like to note that im not saying itd be hard to get fat.. just that if i stick to my current food choices and decide to indulge here and there with an extra large porton of ground beef and peppers or a bigger serving of oats..i dont think itll make much difference...

----------


## bikeral

I'm going to have to send you some New York bagels. I'm sure you will like them.

----------


## --->>405<<---

i bet i would.. ive become a big fan of the bagel  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well guys i fell short on the cardio.. i only got 30mins worth instead of 40.. i even contemplated not going at all mainly cuz the program im on says u can do it without cardio and im having good progress thus far with only 2days/week.. but i went cuz i enjoy running outside.. just ran out of steam mentally.. the depletion wokouts tues and wed really took it out of me.. esp since i still havent had any carbs to refuel.. i consider it a success nonetheless.. 30mins i think is ok for where im currently at and considering im ona 1400cal diet and lifted 1.5hrs 2days in a row with basically no rest between sets.. i think that depletion workout is almost like cardio with weights!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well im all dressed up with nowhere to go.. My dang boat set back til 1300.. Hate it when that happens.. Now i have to decide if i wanna work from 1300-1800 or just take the day off.. Prob take the day off.. I have to lift this evening.. Then start the wonderful carb load..

----------


## joebailey1271

Hey, when u was eating a 100 carbs a day, before you started the new diet your on, did you count all your carbs including veggies, oats, to equal a total of a 100, or did u just count the starches like oats and sweet potatoes to = 100? Also did u count the carbs in your PB and protein shakes in your 100 count>?

----------


## --->>405<<---

When i was eating 100g carbs i counted everything.. 

Veggies, oats, sweet potatoes, PB, protein, cottage cheese...

Everything...

----------


## --->>405<<---

Basically i got 1/4 cup oats Twice per day and 4oz sweet pot per day plus the other things mentioned above.. Not alot..

Knowing wat i know now id prob count everyth except veggies..

----------


## bikeral

> Well im all dressed up with nowhere to go.. My dang boat set back til 1300.. Hate it when that happens.. Now i have to decide if i wanna work from 1300-1800 or just take the day off.. Prob take the day off.. I have to lift this evening.. Then start the wonderful carb load..


Morning 405--- A bad day off is better than a good day at work.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ur rite! Of course this will be a good day off.. I decided not to go in.. Gonna get my lifting dun @1500...

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well guys got workout dun and started carb load.. Just finishd 10 oatmeal pancakes and a cup of cheerios!! AWESOME!! 

Next up: big bowl of cereal followed by 2 bagels with ff cream cheese and jelly!! Already anticipating it..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Since 1800 ive eaten 2450cals and 450g carbs.. And i could eat more! But instead im goin to bed  :Smilie:

----------


## joebailey1271

Hey thanks for the info. I did the carb ups on the CKD, the diet works great, but i couldnt stand the carb ups, too much bloat, felt like i had to sit around all day and eat, then be bloated. I felt like i had to waist a whole day sitting around, sleepy from all the carbs. It may be different on your new diet though, sounds like its working out good for you.

----------


## t-gunz

hey big man. what kept u motivated/ help u suceed doing this tranformation? 

love to hear ur input mate.

----------


## Back In Black

For your next carb load you need to get the wife to rustle up a batch of Yorkshires and drizzle some maple syrup over them!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> For your next carb load you need to get the wife to rustle up a batch of Yorkshires and drizzle some maple syrup over them!


good idea! i think ill do just that  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> hey big man. what kept u motivated/ help u suceed doing this tranformation? 
> 
> love to hear ur input mate.


this forum for starters.. having my diet in check and knowing that i had stem and gb and others from here to help me if i had probs was a big help.. before when i would cut i just had myself and my own knowledge (or lack thereof) to rely on.. knowing i had guys that had proven to be able to cut down to single digit bodyfat gave me the confidence in the diet to keep going and not give up.. i knew if i couldnt figure it out on my own they could!

other than that i was just tired of being fat and feeling like a failure cuz i had never been able to get abs before.. that coupled with the discovery of my low test just propelled me forward man.. i knew i would get where i wanted to be.. i just didnt know how long it was gonna take.. 

following the diet and working out to me was the easy part.. the hard part was figuring out how to manipulate the circumstances to force my body to let go of the fat..especially from 14% and down.. thats when it started getting a little tuffer.. im still not as lean as id like to be but i am lean nonetheless.. it mite take a break from cutting and a run of some maintenance to reset me mentally to get alot lower.. im somewhat tired mentally.. 

3more weeks from rite now and ill be on the road heading to florida and a 7day cruise.. i may have a little cutting to do when i get back (maybe not).. depending how much fat i can gain in a week.. and then itll be figuring out my true maintenance time and a break til the end of summer more than likely  :Smilie: 

hope this helps!

----------


## t-gunz

nice man thanks for sharing 

reason i asked is ive been trying to get abs since 2009. im at a point where i wanna gie up yet im back still trying 

thanks again for sharing. its good having the boys on here to help. chances are most of us will never meet but then most of us get along like we are great friends. funny that

----------


## --->>405<<---

> nice man thanks for sharing 
> 
> reason i asked is ive been trying to get abs since 2009. *im at a point where i wanna gie up yet im back still trying* 
> 
> thanks again for sharing. its good having the boys on here to help. chances are most of us will never meet but then most of us get along like we are great friends. funny that


^^exactly where i was before giving this cut a shot! and im so glad i did.. stem was rite.. now that ive done it it will be so much easier to do again.. dont give up.. id suggest figuring ur bf% and posting stats and starting a log and running a cut.. we can get u there if ur willing to do what it takes!

----------


## t-gunz

thanks mate. im starting an IF diet atm. still learning about it atm .

im out of the weights room atm due to my lower back injury. but i can do walking so i guess that better than nothing. 

its not to far off from winter here. so i wont worry about getting cut. but add some mass on the areas that need it. only good part on me is my quads. 24' so im happy threr. upper body needs the work... but i like training legs they just seem to over power.

hopefully i can get back in the gym soon. want to try dorian yates training syle. just need a training partner for it

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well fellas the old carb load is all but over yet again.. I do get 280g carbs tomorrow and monday but.. Not the same  :Smilie:  i tell u ive been hungry all freakin day long! Cant fig that out.. This am i ate 3000cals worth of bagel (10bagels).. still hungry.. This afternoon was even worse.. I ate oatmeal pancakes and the hunger subsided. I think its maybe cuz i get no protein to speak of during carb load.. 

It seems im hungrier the day i eat 7000cals than i do the days i eat 1400! Weird.. 

Tomorrow is easter and im having family over for bbq. Suppose ill be doing a little cheating tomorrow. May add 2 extra cardio sessions this week (last week i only did one)..

Oh yeh i took some pre-carb load pics and will take a couple post-carb load pics tomorrow.. Will post em so we can tell a difference  :Smilie:

----------


## bikeral

Fantastic bro, have a good holiday. Enjoy the family time.

----------


## --->>405<<---

*last week on march 28(5days ago) weighed 186lbs at 9.09% -->9site parillo

today weight: 183.5lbs at 8.17%bf -->9site parillo* <-- 4/1/12

This week: 184.0lbs at 7.92%bf 9 site parillo <-- 4/8/12 

Dont feel as good about this week for some reason. Prob in part cuz i have family coming over which means no power day 6 workout. As well as likely cheat meal. I dont like it but what can i do? It is easter and i cant be 100% every single day.. Dont know if ill get to make up todays lift session. Only time i can will be tomorrow. Thatll put me liftn 3 days in a row..

----------


## Back In Black

All good buddy. Man, have some wings or something, I don't think it's gonna hurt. This is the most important holiday as a practising Christian is it not, something to celebrate?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> All good buddy. Man, have some wings or something, I don't think it's gonna hurt. This is the most important holiday as a practising Christian is it not, something to celebrate?


Thx man  :Smilie:  ur rite it is the most important holiday by far! Because of this day we have forgiveness of sin... The ultimate obstacle in all our lives.. Whether u believe it or not...  :Smilie:  

I had some chikn breast(grilld) and salad(3actually :Smilie: )with nuts and fruit in it (yum) and some cake.. And a few fries.. Very good! Tomorrow is back on track.. I did only eat one other meEl today ( slimmers pancakes).. So im prob not too bad calorie-wise.. Watchn the masters final round.. Hope yall Are havn a blessed Easter..

----------


## Back In Black

> Thx man  ur rite it is the most important holiday by far! Because of this day we have forgiveness of sin... The ultimate obstacle in all our lives.. Whether u believe it or not...  
> 
> I had some chikn breast(grilld) and salad(3actually)with nuts and fruit in it (yum) and some cake.. And a few fries.. Very good! Tomorrow is back on track.. I did only eat one other meEl today ( slimmers pancakes).. So im prob not too bad calorie-wise.. *Watchn the masters final round..* Hope yall Are havn a blessed Easter..


me too, it's 11pm here and i have to be up at 5, it's going down to the wire!

----------


## --->>405<<---

YEh its a good tournament to watch  :Smilie:  i live 2hrs drive from augusta natl golf club.. Always enjoy masters week  :Smilie:  u bettr get to bed man  :Wink:

----------


## Bodacious

Hey 405 great job man I have been reading your log. That's great work. I didn't want to start a thread just to ask you or stem a question bc I knew I could catch Yall in here. What about a protien shake (max pro) in a bowl of speacial k ceral before bed? Is that bad for the diet or good ??? And red meat yay or Nah ? Thanks again man.

What cruise line you going on? That's why I am trying to lose some weight going on one my self. Don't think ill get as low as you to where I don't know shit about dieting. I just don't know what to snack on. 

Thanks

----------


## Bodacious

Ohhh the shake should take a few hours to digest. It's not like one of them shakes that digest in 30 mins.thanks

----------


## --->>405<<---

Hey bod appreciate it man.. The shake before bed is fine but make sure its casein.. Not whey.. Personally i prefer cottage cheese and chikn breast or lean ground beef before bed.. I would not make a habit of eating cereal on any diet.. Special k or any brand.. There are better carb sources out there IMO.. Oats, brn rice, sweet potatoes for example.. Also id stay away from carbs before bed in general (just to be safe  :Smilie: ) <<-- unless ur last meal before bed is PWO..

As far as red meat its fine to have .. I eat it every day.. Just make sure its lean.. Such as 96%ff ground beef..

----------


## Bodacious

Thanks man and yea its was whey. Looks like tonight is my last. Might go pick up some cottage cheese tomorrow then. Hoe are u fixing ur oat meal in the morning? What else for breakfast you eat? Just wanna let you know reading your log has helped me out.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Thanks man and yea its was whey. Looks like tonight is my last. Might go pick up some cottage cheese tomorrow then. Hoe are u fixing ur oat meal in the morning? What else for breakfast you eat? Just wanna let you know reading *your log has helped me out.*


glad to hear it!  :Smilie:  my breakfast fluctuates cuz im on a carb cycle diet.. on days when i can have carbs i enjoy slimmer me's pancakes.. theyre really good.. esp when ur used to eating what ive been eating.. theyre basically 60g pro, 60g carbs, 10g fat (give or take a few grams.. not hard to figure it exactly).. 

other days i have 5eggwhites and 6oz lean ground beef all cooked together which i also enjoy.. (these are for low carb days)..

before when i ate carbs everyday id have 1whole egg, 5eggwhites, 1/2cup oats with sugar free strawberry jam mixed in (which i also enjoy)..

those are pretty much my 3 breakfasts.. in the beginning i added 3oz shrimp to my eggs which was also good..

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok well i have some precarbload and postcarbload pics .. id like to note im not real happy with this past week and aim to increase my efforts this coming week.. between easter cheat and no day 6 workout plus a carbload where i may have eaten a little over the week prior i just am not pleased with myself.. may consider altering the carbload for next week.. poss eliminating some of the bagels and adding something different.. just not sure what.. anyways here they are: i think i look better precarbload...

btw they alternate.. 
pic 1 is pre 
pic 2 is post 
pic 3 is pre 
pic 4 is post

----------


## bikeral

Definitely look a lot bigger in post. Still have great definition. Looking awesome dude.

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx man.. i tell u one thing ive noticed after doing this ud2.0 diet for 2 weeks now.. during depletion i crave carbs cuz i dont get any.. during carbload i crave protein cuz i dont get any.. theres only about 3 hrs the whole week where i get what i want and thats during the first 3 hrs of the carbload LOL  :Smilie:

----------


## bikeral

I have a similar issue when bulking I am not able to eat as much as I'd like (Of good clean food) and when I am cutting I am always hungry. I am going to try maintenance for 2 weeks between cut and bulk and see how that goes.

----------


## Back In Black

> I have a similar issue when bulking I am not able to eat as much as I'd like (Of good clean food) and when I am cutting I am always hungry. I am going to try maintenance for 2 weeks between cut and bulk and see how that goes.


Yeah, maintenance just makes you hungrier than cutting!

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh well during the carb load i ate 7500 cals from 1900friday -1900saturday and was hungry the whole time..

----------


## Bodacious

Damn man you are doin GREAT

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## --->>405<<---

thanx man!  :Smilie:

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## --->>405<<---

i tell u what guys i love to eat but i think so far im most comfortable in my diet on zero carb days.. eating alot of food just doesnt sit well with me yet.. i suppose its gonna take awhile at maintenance for me to feel comfortable eating at maintenance or above cuz im still worried about getting fat!

thhink im gonna shoot for a 5mile run today after work to try and get ahead a bit on my depletion which has pretty much begun.. last carb meal was today at 1300..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well good morning fellows.. and gals.. well yesterday i had a great cardio session.. prob cuz i ate 7000cals on saturday and didnt lift as scheduled on sunday due to easter.. ran 5miles in 38:36.. was nice.. am really looking forward to getting into the gym at lunch for depletion.. havent lifted since friday and im itching to move some weight around.. of course if memory serves correctly ask me how i feel midway thru depletion day 1 and ill prob say i hate it! LOL

----------


## bikeral

Morning 405.

----------


## RaginCajun

> well good morning fellows.. and gals.. well yesterday i had a great cardio session.. prob cuz i ate 7000cals on saturday and didnt lift as scheduled on sunday due to easter..* ran 5miles in 38:36..* was nice.. am really looking forward to getting into the gym at lunch for depletion.. havent lifted since friday and im itching to move some weight around.. of course if memory serves correctly ask me how i feel midway thru depletion day 1 and ill prob say i hate it! LOL



damn man, that is FAST!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i waited til i get off work to lift cuz it takes at least an hr if done properly and i didnt wanna be all stressed out trying to rush.. it was a tuff decision though cuz im havn a "fat day" plus i havent lifted since friday and im ready to pump some iron man!

bout to be dun at work though and im gonna hit it hard as hell and then do some cardio pwo!!! whooo ho0oo!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well i hit it as hard as i could today.. Did 1.5hr total body depletion workout and then ran 3miles pwo.. Also outran a guy on a bike for the last 200meters  :Smilie:  im tired as heck! Feel good though.. Felt stronger in the gym today.. Gonna sleep good tonite.. Tomorrow i get to do it all over again!

----------


## Bodacious

405 or Stem,

What about wheat pancakes on diet? Sugar free surp?

405 what do you mean when u are talking about depletion workouts? Thanks

----------


## t-gunz

405 what made u do a diet with few carbs in it opposed to a keto or IF diet?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 405 or Stem,
> 
> What about *1.wheat pancakes* on diet? Sugar free surp?
> 
> 405 what do you mean when u are talking about *2.depletion workouts*? Thanks


1. oatmeal pancakes recipe:
1cup oats(ground into powder in food processor)
1cup lowfat cottage cheese
7large eggwhites
cinnamon(to taste)
vanilla(to taste)

grind up oats and add all other ingredients into food processor.. blend til smoothe.. cook like a pancake and i eat with sugar free syrup.. very good and good for u!

2. depletion: ridding ur muscles of glycogen to cause ur body to use fat for energy or fuel.. i run a 4day low carb (60g from broccoli only) diet at 50% maintenance.. workout includes total body workout spread over 2 days.. 12 total sets per bodypart.. 15reps per set.. each set should take between 45-60 secs to complete.. approx 2secs down and 1 sec up for each rep.. weight is approx 60% of ur 1rep max.. 

sample workout:
flat bench: 3 sets x 15 reps
rows: 3 x 15
bb curl: 2 x 15
tri pushdown: 2 x 15
shoulder press: 3 x 15
leg press: 3 x 15
leg curl: 3 x 15

do all this then repeat again.. i do this on day 1 and then another depletion on day 2 exactly the same except i add calves for 6 sets x 15 reps and swap flat bench for incline and rows for chins.. all while eating at 50% maintenance (1400cals for me) .. its brutal!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 405 what made u do a diet with few carbs in it opposed to a keto or IF diet?


im doing a carb cycle diet tgunz.. 4 days veggies only at 50% maintenance, 1 day massive refeed (1300g carbs, 7000cals), 2 days 20% below maintenance (2240cals, @275g carbs)

dont like the sound of keto.. sounds unhealthy to be without carbs for such an extended period.. maybe it isnt but i just dont like the idea of it.. to me the carb cycle is the way to go..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well its another beautiful spring day here  :Smilie:  have had an interesting repetitive occurrence since startn this diet.. it seems every week or so i have a bout of upset stomach which is preceded by a bout of irregularity.. im curious as to if the upset stomach part is my body's way of getting rid of the water cuz i started depletion yesterday and i was feeling kinda bloated/jiggly and today i feel lean and not jiggly.. ?

----------


## RaginCajun

> 1. oatmeal pancakes recipe:
> 1cup oats(ground into powder in food processor)
> 1cup lowfat cottage cheese
> 7large eggwhites
> cinnamon(to taste)
> vanilla(to taste)
> 
> grind up oats and add all other ingredients into food processor.. blend til smoothe.. cook like a pancake and i eat with sugar free syrup.. very good and good for u!
> 
> ...


you work the same muscles two days in a row?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> you work the same muscles two days in a row?


thats correct.. every muscle 2 days in a row.. the depletion can be done in a single day but thatd be about 90 sets.. too much IMO for one day so he allows 2 days for depletion..

basically @ 45sets per day...

----------


## RaginCajun

> thats correct.. every muscle 2 days in a row.. the depletion can be done in a single day but thatd be about 90 sets.. too much IMO for one day so he allows 2 days for depletion..
> 
> basically @ 45sets per day...



i may have to try this and throw a wrench at my body

----------


## --->>405<<---

DEPLETION WORKOUT DAY 2.. DUN DEAL.. thank goodness! now i can chill out the rest of the week ..

----------


## --->>405<<---

i took some pics in the gym and wanted to post a back shot i thought was pretty good for me  :Smilie:  my back before sucked but i feel its finally starting to come around.. i also noticed i had an old pre carb cycle pic with a similar pose as one i took today so i thought id post them for comparison.. results seem to slow when u get to a certain point but i think i looke better in the pic today than the one i took march 2 (40days ago)..

----------


## RaginCajun

damn son, looking big!

----------


## bikeral

Your pants are loose in the last pic.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Your pants are loose in the last pic.


thats great! theyre 34's.. actually i measured the waist this am and im down to 32.5" which im happy about.. started at 42" so if i can squeeze 1/2 inch more ill be 10" smaller in the waist! but ill take 9.5  :Wink: 

id also like to note the shorts are snug in the butt and thighs.. i couldnt wear a 32 if i wanted to.. used to be the other way round.. snug in the waist and loose everywhere else.. i prefer it like this  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> damn son, looking big!


thx cajun.. i posted them for comparison between march2 and today .. being on carb cycle..  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Definitely more tanned :Wink: 

Back deffo looks better/bigger. Must be those weighted chins someone told you to do!

Not wanting to wish your days away but I'm really interested to see how you cope with maintenance after your cruise. But for now, keep on it, I suspect you've already travelled further than you thought you would?!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Definitely more tanned
> 
> Back deffo looks better/bigger. Must be those weighted chins someone told you to do!
> 
> Not wanting to wish your days away but I'm really *interested to see how you cope with maintenance after your cruise.* But for now, keep on it, I suspect you've already travelled further than you thought you would?!


me too mate  :Smilie:  im so used to cutting.. id like to be leaner than i am.. i tell u it gets tuff where im at.. i will admit i havent been pushing as hard as i possibly can.. i think i prob need a break just to be able to eat a bit and chill and figure out truly what my maintenance is.. depending on how this cruise goes i may have to keep cutting for another month when i get home! 

i am a bit curious as to what specifically u mean by being curious to how i cope with maintenance? 

and yes i have travelled further than i thought i would  :Smilie:  but id like to go further.. i suppose considering how far ive come and where i started maybe i need a break and when i cut again ill be able to get lower than i am currently?

----------


## Back In Black

Mostly because it is a little boring. All you are aiming for is stasis. No losses, no gains. Actually, it takes as much discipline as cutting and that's hard to get your head around, too easy to have a little extra nibble here and there. Having said that, if you count your nibbles in your macro's you can work it out that way.

Yeah, you have 2 options after maintenance, bulk or cut again. It will definitely do your body and mind good by not cutting for a while. Were you gonna look at doing a cycle this year?

And, the next time you cut will be soooooo much easier, partly because you won't have as much bf to lose and also because, well, it's just easier when your body and head have done it before.

Oh, and I reckon you'll whack on 10ls or so on your cruise but that'll be gone in as many days after!

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ i see wat u mean.. no forward progress.. 

as far as cycle id like to but im thinking of going to the doc and getting my shoulders looked at.. been dealing with chronic pain in both of them.. not while i lift but more when im asleep and first thing in the am.. sucks.. i also think my left shoulder may need surgery (hence the over developed right shoulder).. thatd be a good thing to get dun while running maintenance.. ill be off weights for prob 8-12 weeks.. may need some assistance from u so i dont get fat again  :Smilie:  during that time.. i suppose if i eat below maintenance and still do cardio 5-6 times per week it should keep the fat off? but i may lose some muscle too since i wont be lifting.. will try to do what i can..

----------


## Back In Black

It will need reviewing at that time depending on your maintenance macro's at that time. Your maintenance cals will change as some muscle loss is inevitable but it will take careful manipulation over those weeks.

Pain is not good (obviously), you are probably doing the right thing.

----------


## bikeral

405 is now red. Congrats

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 405 is now red. Congrats


LOL yeh i noticed when i was posting in a thread and hit the post button and bam it was red! awesome!  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

> LOL yeh i noticed when i was posting in a thread and hit the post button and bam it was red! awesome!


Welcome to the red team, buddy :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Welcome to the red team, buddy


thx mate  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well not a lot to do today except cardio.. a welcome break after 2 day of depletion.. waist down to 32" even  :Smilie:  thats 10" reduction in waist size in 6.5 months.. ill take it!

----------


## bikeral

32 that is awesome. What size pants are you wearing? Now that I measure my waist I noticed that the clothing industry is trying to make us think we are thinner than we really are. It must be a conspiracy. My waist is 38 3/4" but I am wearing size 34 pants.

----------


## --->>405<<---

i currently wear 34's.. but yes i know what u mean cuz when my waist was 42" i was wearing 36's.. 

32's r a little snug in the butt and legs..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well i thought i had posted earlier about my run but apparently i was incorrect.. Anyways it was good.. Thats about it.. Pretty easy day.. Have to get up tomorrow at 0500 to be at work at 0600.. May only wk half a day.. Tomorrow nite is carb load again!! Yay!! My fav day of the week!

----------


## JohnnnyBlazzze

Whatsup man, congrats on the red! and have fun on that carb load manyana

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## --->>405<<---

> Whatsup man, congrats on the red! and have fun on that carb load manyana


hey thx man and i intend to fully!  :Smilie:

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## --->>405<<---

well jst as i suspected im only stayn a half day today and then im gonna hit the car wash, tanning bed, and then the gym.. will be a good day!  :Smilie:

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## --->>405<<---

oh yeh 1 more thing.. i hit an all time low this am at 179.8lbs...of course im glycogen depleted and i dont care about my weight but its always nice to drop lbs (if its fat).. we'll see how i come back after carb load..

----------


## bikeral

That's 33lbs from your start right? Enjoy the day

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## --->>405<<---

yeh it is ..  :Smilie:  and thx i will!

33lbs and 10" off the waist.. prob @ 12%bf drop

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## SlimmerMe

*Congrats on turning RED 405!*

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## --->>405<<---

Thx slim!!  :Smilie:

----------


## V-ROID

I have been seeing this thread pop up forever so to decided to check it out. Nice progress! You are about my size and started about where I did last fall. I read the first few pages but didn't see any pics. Got any "before" pics to help keep people motivated? I remember when Gbrice had his before pic up in his avatar. He really made an impressive transformation as well. Keep it up I know you will!

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## --->>405<<---

Before pic page 7  :Smilie:  And thx for cheking in ..

----------


## JohnnnyBlazzze

Hey 405, in your beginning weeks did you focus more on cardio or your weight lifting sessions? I find sometimes i want to skip out on lifting that day to do fasted cardio in the am. I'm averaging about 3/4 days of lifting in the week but looking to cut it down by 1 or so. I really just want to get the most out of my cardio and fat burning...

----------


## --->>405<<---

In the beginning i did my cardio upon waking aNd then went to work and lifted at lunch.. Neither got in the way of the other.. I would suggest (depending on ur stats which i dont recall) getting 3-4days per week lifting and 5-6 days per week cardio.. U wanna hit each bodypart at least once per week.. If ur bf [email protected] 12-14 u could prob do ok with 4-5days cardio.. 

All the above depending on diet of course  :Smilie: 

U know u can do pwo cardio as well if ur schedule permits.. Its also good!

----------


## JohnnnyBlazzze

> In the beginning i did my cardio upon waking aNd then went to work and lifted at lunch.. Neither got in the way of the other.. I would suggest (depending on ur stats which i dont recall) getting 3-4days per week lifting and 5-6 days per week cardio.. U wanna hit each bodypart at least once per week.. If ur bf [email protected] 12-14 u could prob do ok with 4-5days cardio.. 
> 
> All the above depending on diet of course 
> 
> U know u can do pwo cardio as well if ur schedule permits.. Its also good!


Ok ill crank it up, if you do am cardio did you also do PWO cardio if you lifted later that day?

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## --->>405<<---

> Ok ill crank it up, if you do am cardio did you also do PWO cardio if you lifted later that day?


i rarely ever did pwo cardio cuz i lift at lunch during work and dont have time.. all cardio am fasted for me..

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## --->>405<<---

Well carb load is winding down and i have actually eaten more this week than last week! I am prob gonna go over a bit.. Also i have to work tomorrow so i cant lift cuz the gym is closed by themtime i get off and doesnt open til after lunch! Sux.. This will be 2nd week in a row i missed heavy workout day.. My results seem to be good nonetheless.. Had a guy at work ask me if i was on steroids today and told me i was really getting ripped! LOL .. 

I will prob finish carbload around: 8000cals/ 1400g carbs/ 500g pro/ 100g fat

----------


## --->>405<<---

[QUOTE=--->>405<<---;5968032]*last week on march 28(5days ago) weighed 186lbs at 9.09% -->9site parillo 169.09LBM

today weight: 183.5lbs at 8.17%bf -->9site parillo* <-- 4/1/12 *168.50LBM*

This week: 184.0lbs at 7.92%bf 9 site parillo <-- 4/8/12 *169.42LBM*

TODAY (4/15/12) I WEIGHED IN AT 183.4LBS BF% 7.80 9SITE PARILLO *169.09LBM*

didnt drink much water yesterday and woke up looking pretty good IMO.. next week i may really go for a dry carbload.. have done some reading about it.. have a couple pics.. dont think they do me justice compared to wat the mirror showed but hey whatever  :Wink: 

p.s. i know the second pic is kind of a gay pose LOL but i thought it was a good pic and i just dont care!

----------


## Back In Black

Kinda gay but also kinda awesome :Smilie: 

Interesting to see what a clean/dry carb load would do. Harder to eat I should imagine. Worth trying though.

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## --->>405<<---

i think ive pretty much maxd out on how lean i can get without really going crazy.. maybe if i added some var or winstrol at this point? would u say im lean enuff to run a compound like that? im not going to rite now or for awhile but curious to know if/when in the future i am willing id like to know how lean i need to be..

ill prob ride out this ud2.0 another 12days i suppose.. 

man u shoulda seen the food i put away on carbload stem:

1cup oats 
2scoops whey
banana
banana
3servings capn crunch peanut butter
16oz milk
protein pancakes (whole recipe with banana mixd in- which was good  :Smilie: )
protein pancakes (whole recipe)
banana
1serv frosted miniwheats
3serv honey bunches of oats
16oz milk
12 bagels
oatmeal pancakes (whole recipe)
3 cups oats
1whole egg, 7eggwhites, omelette with 6oz ground beef, peppers and onions

grand total: 7826cals, 1369g carbs, 435g pro, 92g fat

----------


## Detlions

Good work man....

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## --->>405<<---

Thx det.. 

Wel it looks like its gonna work out and im about to wrap it up here at work and head to the gym for my heavy power workout! Im psyched! Feel full of carbs and strong.. Have plenty of pent up energy just waiting to be expended.. Will be sure to let yall know how it goes  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well power/heavy workout went well.. This coming week is my last full week before my cruise so im debating whether to continue ud2.0 after this week.. Basically my carbload day ill be traveling to the boat.. I suppose i could do the dry carbload on the road but ill be eating out at least for dinner so i dont see the point.. Will prob run thru next monday and then just low carb the rest of the week and have a small refeed friday nite and then go into vacation diet mode saturday  :Smilie: 

SteM chk out the 1st paragraph in post nineteen 03..

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## slfmade

Hey, man....Just stopping in to say NICE WORK!!!! I just updated my log with new pics so you guys know I'm not slacking off while I'm away. I've had a lot of stuff going on but I should be back to normal in a few weeks. Good Job though....you're really leaning out! I'm just looking skinny now that all the fat is falling off. I'm okay with it though...my goal from the very beginning was not to be fat anymore...and I'm getting there.

Oh and nice work on the promotion too!

----------


## slfmade

Also, where you you recommend I go to learn more about this "dry carb load"?

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## --->>405<<---

Google it.. U basically run a 4 day depletion workout and 50g carbs (veggies) and drink at least 2gallons water per day (shoot for 3).. On ur last day u start carbload drink like 2 or 3 gallons water and then stop abruptly while simultaneously startn carb load.. Ur body will be in "system flush mode" and stopping abruptly will cause u to continue flushing though ur not drinking any water to replace wats being flushed.. Combine this with massive carbs and when ur muscles get restored of glycogen ur body will have to pull the water from under ur skin.. (this is simplified but pretty close).. Like i said google it.. 

And im glad to see u man! Been wondering when ud pop in.. Hurry back!  :Smilie:

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## Fatburgler

Thank you brother I just read your whole log and You motivated me beyond imagination

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## --->>405<<---

> Thank you brother I just read your whole log and You motivated me beyond imagination


Wow i hear ya man! Thats a lot of reading! Alot of which prob boring  :Smilie:  im glad it has proven to be of use for u and good luck with whatever ur plans are !! And thx for letn me know it has helped u  :Smilie:

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## ironbeck

you guys r dedicated, you t giving me prtocols

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## --->>405<<---

morning fellows.. enjoyed me some oatmeal pancakes this am! man those things just never get old.. cardio only day today and tonite begins depletion again.. got one more pic i took last nite with a leg shot figd id put it up..

----------


## RaginCajun

man 405, you really got it! congrats on going red!

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx cajun  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well did me a 4mile run this evening.. man im tired now.. still at work.. wont be off til @ 0100 or so.. blah!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

u an inspiration for many of us. Awesome!

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## --->>405<<---

> u an inspiration for many of us. Awesome!


thx ggr!  :Smilie:  

and thx for stoppn by!

----------


## --->>405<<---

good afternoon fellow nutrition resource forum fellows and gals  :Smilie: 

well today started a bit rough.. i finally got off at 0100 and got to bed at 0200 and slept to 1000 this am.. when i woke up i was still tired from the long day yesterday and anticipating my depletion workout which was coming up within the hour.. i debated for about 15mins whether to continue the ud2.0 diet this week cuz i was so tired and didnt feel like putting myself thru the depletion workout.. i also wanted some carbs and considered just starting maintenance today..

after much deliberation i opted to continue and now that ive finished my depletion workout im glad i did! looked pretty good in the mirror this am and i do get a sense of accomplishment by depriving myself on 1400cals and no carbs for 4days along with running the ECA stack.. 

so i went to the gym and had a pretty good workout.. went up on weight in every exercise as well as completed all 15reps for all sets..it also wasnt quite as miserable as it has been the previous 3 weeks.. 

on a difft note the guy that owns the gym i work out in had competed in some local bb contests around my town and he along with 2 other people that work out there approached me today and told me they thought i should enter a contest that takes place in june.. i took that as a compliment  :Smilie:  i havent seen the competition and seriously doubt id enter it mainly due to the asymmetry with my left and right bicep as well as my left and right deltoid.. but it was nice to have it suggested..  :Smilie:

----------


## NOSUPERMODEL

Looking great 405.

----------


## Back In Black

Very nice to have it suggested. I wouldn't worry about the imbalances in a local show. Maybe you should go along to the show to watch and see if you could do yourself justice next year?

----------


## bikeral

Way to go 405. I like that you just get out and do it even when you are tired. The way you started I thought for sure you were going to say you did not workout. Glad you did.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Very nice to have it suggested. I wouldn't worry about the imbalances in a local show. Maybe you should go along to the show to watch and see if you could do yourself justice next year?


thats a good idea! u know i will do that  :Smilie:  if i play my cards rite i could poss get shoulder fixd and have time to do a bulking cycle as well as a cutting cycle by then.. that would make for an interesting year for me and yall to see play out!

i think the asymmetry would balance out after surgery.. i think whatever is wrong is causing me to lift difftly on my left side..

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Way to go 405. I like that you just get out and do it even when you are tired. The way you started I thought for sure you were going to say you did not workout. Glad you did.


yeh it was a close one al  :Smilie:  i wasnt not gonna work out just change to 1bodypart per week again

----------


## --->>405<<---

i tell ya its pretty good how only 3 or 4 days off eca per week and it kicks in real good.. only used 2 doses today.. tomorrow ill do 3.. by friday i wont even be able to feel it again.. figured id change the avi as a reminder to myself of how far ive come  :Smilie:

----------


## bikeral

Like the new avi. Did you binge on pizza and hamburgers today?  :Wink/Grin:

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## --->>405<<---

i think i may have eaten a bit too much sodium im feeln a little bloated.. does it show?  :Smilie:

----------


## bikeral

Missed last part of your last post. Got it. Must remember were you came from.

----------


## Back In Black

Ha ha, ya fat fvck :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well its a good day today! day 2 depletion and i may try to get pwo cardio after.. hope all r doing well  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Had a good depletion #2 wkout today.. Been a busy day.. Tomorrow is a welcomed off day.. Prob do cardio.. Then glorious friday will be upon me once again!!!

----------


## RaginCajun

i really like the depletion workouts. i kind of changed some of the exercises to suit me but overall, i like it!

----------


## Back In Black

> Had a good depletion #2 wkout today.. Been a busy day.. Tomorrow is a welcomed off day.. Prob do cardio.. Then glorious friday will be upon me once again!!!


Mate you need to Christen that properly *G*lorious *F*riday

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Mate you need to Christen that properly *G*lorious *F*riday


OH YEH HOW SO?  :Smilie: 

also id like to note i got my bloodwork in yesterday and have elevated kidney and liver function.. i lookd online and from what ive read believe it may be due to the diet ive been on..?? from wat i read high protein diets can be hard on both the liver and kidneys..

my diet has consisted of minimum 60% protein for the past 7 months 7 days per week.. since i started carb cycling, on my low carb days (4 days per week) my totals cals have been 70% from protein...

it was suggested by my TRT doc to follow up with my PCP which i intend to do but that seems like the most likely explanation.. anyone have anything on this?

----------


## RaginCajun

> OH YEH HOW SO? 
> 
> also id like to note i got my bloodwork in yesterday and have elevated kidney and liver function.. i lookd online and from what ive read believe it may be due to the diet ive been on..?? from wat i read high protein diets can be hard on both the liver and kidneys..
> 
> my diet has consisted of minimum 60% protein for the past 7 months 7 days per week.. since i started carb cycling, on my low carb days (4 days per week) my totals cals have been 70% from protein...
> 
> it was suggested by my TRT doc to follow up with my PCP which i intend to do but that seems like the most likely explanation.. anyone have anything on this?



you could be right with the high protein causing those types of problems. the liver could be from the TRT but i am no doctor. i would do what the TRT doc said and follow up. AST and ALT were up? how did your cholesterol look?

----------


## --->>405<<---

AST 57
ALT 69

cholesterol was 156

----------


## Back In Black

> OH YEH HOW SO?  *Just use capitals my friend!*
> 
> also id like to note i got my bloodwork in yesterday and have elevated kidney and liver function.. i lookd online and from what ive read believe it may be due to the diet ive been on..?? from wat i read high protein diets can be hard on both the liver and kidneys..*Notoriously hard on kidneys it's why we do/should drink lots of water!*
> 
> my diet has consisted of minimum 60% protein for the past 7 months 7 days per week.. since i started carb cycling, on my low carb days (4 days per week) my totals cals have been 70% from protein...
> 
> it was suggested by my TRT doc to follow up with my PCP which i intend to do but that seems like the most likely explanation.. anyone have anything on this?


Can't comment on the last question, sorry.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ok thx.. I thought u had a decadent suggestion fkr a carb-up meal  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well guys i went on a nice relaxing 5mile run tonite.. this is my 2nd cardio session this week and prob my last.. i tell u its nice only doing cardio 2-3 times per week at lite to moderate intensity.. i am still losing bf too be it ever so slowly now  :Smilie:  only 24hrs and 1 lift session separates me and alot of cereal and fruit and milk and bread!  :Smilie:

----------


## joebailey1271

ECA can be hard on the liver, so can stress and work, u may just need a break. Milk Thistle
is good for the liver while taking test. Also if the eca is causing u to have a higher blood pressure then that will cause kidney problems. I think u need to just take a break, u been hitting it hard since october.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thanx joe  :Smilie:  yeh i wondered bout the eca.. Been takn it now for 2months? Give or take.. Not everyday but @4days per week.. I prob do need a break and im gonna get one! If nothing else startn a week from tomorrow.. (cruise).. When i get back i plan to run maintenance..

----------


## RaginCajun

> AST 57
> ALT 69
> 
> cholesterol was 156



the liver enzymes are definitely on the high side. i would go consult a physician and see what he/she reccomends.

----------


## --->>405<<---

took an interesting pic last nite..

----------


## RaginCajun

damn man, you got it! i hope you get everything worked out with docs

----------


## --->>405<<---

i havent made an appt yet.. i mean i should be healthy.. i feel healthy.. i look healthy.. i havent had any alcohol in 4 yrs.. got some cranberry juice with 2g sugar per serving for kidneys ill drink some of that and getting some milk thistle.. also will be makn appt i suppose.. sick of docs.. dont mind trt doc but dont like the others..

----------


## RaginCajun

> i havent made an appt yet.. i mean i should be healthy.. i feel healthy.. i look healthy.. i havent had any alcohol in 4 yrs.. got some cranberry juice with 2g sugar per serving for kidneys ill drink some of that and getting some milk thistle.. also will be makn appt i suppose.. sick of docs.. dont mind* trt* doc but dont like the others..



i am just hoping that it is not this that is causing a high number on your liver function test.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well if it is im gonna die then cuz i aint going off it

----------


## bikeral

Dude hope it's all good man. 1 week to cruise bet you are ready to go. We want some bikini pics when you get back. You can PM me them.  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL.. funny.. had a buddy at work suggest i bring one along and pretend to put it on to go out to the pool to get a rxn outta the wife LOL..

----------


## --->>405<<---

and the carb load begins with pre w/o  :Smilie:

----------


## akali

just seen your thread man, another inspiration, thanks for posting !

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well a full recipe of slims pancakes and im ready for some cereal!!

----------


## Back In Black

Good boy, enjoy the nosebag/troughing day.

----------


## --->>405<<---

not a lot going on.. just eating a lot of carbs  :Smilie:

----------


## joebailey1271

keep up the good work 405, get them kidneys and liver checked out, if u mess up your insides where u gonna live, have u been taking any pain killers, tylenol can make those liver enzymes go up, i know u said your shoulder has been hurting,

----------


## --->>405<<---

Advil and ibuprofen, ECA stack, high protein.. A lot of possibles i suppose..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well bout dun with carbload.. Just finishdabout 8oz chikn, 1 whole egg & 6eggwhites omelette, 1 cup oats.. Pretty full now.. Funny every week i get a little less diligent in keeping track of cals and carbs.. Meaning i get so hungry while i cook ill eat a handful of cereal here and a handful there and not really count it.. I did allot 6servings for such activity and am still only at 1100g carbs since last nite.. I also have eaten 400g protein which ive found helps with the hunger i seem to get for the whole 24-30hr carbload.. Protein sources were lean ground beef, chikn breast, and a bunch of eggwhites (omelettes)... Kept fat @80g so..

6728cals
409g pro
1109g carbs
77g fat

Is the damage.. Only drank maybe 2liters water today too and have been pretty vascular as well as abs showing up a little better.. I may eat another carb meAl before bed.. Or i may not.. Kinda tired of eating at this point! At least til tomorrow LOL..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Id also like to note since ive just completed a 4th carbload of greater than 1100g for a 4th week in a row and have documented fatloss every week i think itd be safe to say im not carb sensitive...??  :Smilie:

----------


## BokBok

> Well bout dun with carbload.. Just finishdabout 8oz chikn, 1 whole egg & 6eggwhites omelette, 1 cup oats.. Pretty full now.. Funny every week i get a little less diligent in keeping track of cals and carbs.. Meaning i get so hungry while i cook ill eat a handful of cereal here and a handful there and not really count it.. I did allot 6servings for such activity and am still only at 1100g carbs since last nite.. I also have eaten 400g protein which ive found helps with the hunger i seem to get for the whole 24-30hr carbload.. Protein sources were lean ground beef, chikn breast, and a bunch of eggwhites (omelettes)... Kept fat @80g so..
> 
> 6728cals
> 409g pro
> 1109g carbs
> 77g fat
> 
> Is the damage.. Only drank maybe 2liters water today too and have been pretty vascular as well as abs showing up a little better.. I may eat another carb meAl before bed.. Or i may not.. Kinda tired of eating at this point! At least til tomorrow LOL..


Holy crap! I hope I can eat like that once per week when I lean out...

----------


## Back In Black

> Holy crap! I hope I can eat like that once per week when I lean out...


Ha ha, 405's gonna be eating like that EVERY day on his cruise next week!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well its sunday.. Bf% chek day.. Curious to see results.. Have to wait on the wife to get outta bed  :Smilie:  kinda torn on wat to do this coming week.. My carb cycle is a 7day cycle and i only have 4days this week of that 7day cycle so i dont know if im gonna low carb it and get in fri pm workout and hit a small carb load fri pm (400g) or just do maintenance this week.. Feel i mite do better mentally at deficit tues-fri considering sat apr 28 - sun may 6 is gonna be all one big cheat  :Smilie:  a cheat week! 9days .. 

We will have some interesting learning to do over this vacation to see just how much weight i gain..

----------


## bikeral

> Well its sunday.. Bf% chek day.. Curious to see results.. Have to wait on the wife to get outta bed  kinda torn on wat to do this coming week.. My carb cycle is a 7day cycle and i only have 4days this week of that 7day cycle so i dont know if im gonna low carb it and get in fri pm workout and hit a small carb load fri pm (400g) or just do maintenance this week.. Feel i mite do better mentally at deficit tues-fri considering sat apr 28 - sun may 6 is gonna be all one big cheat  a cheat week! 9days .. 
> 
> We will have some interesting learning to do over this vacation to see just how much weight i gain..


Try to get some pre vacation pics and post vacation pics and pre/post stats. But enjoy dude you've earned it!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Will do al..

Gonna make it kwik..

Last week 183.8lbs @7.80%bf
This week 184.0lbs @7.85%bf

Not much change.. Why did i deprive myself on meat and broccoli for 4days again? Was it so i could eat 7000cals yesterday cuz tats wat it looks like  :Smilie:

----------


## baseline_9

Ur looking good bro... new avi is sweet

Not been about for a bit, my lifestyle is shocking ATM... Still managing to hit the gym and all that but its a real effort with all the shit thats going on.... I just dont seem to have the time LOL

Every time i set myself up with a plan to diet I start and after a week something comes up that ****s all my plans up! Hopefully I have a home straight now and not too much im my way...

Ur really doing gd, wish i was cut like u bro

----------


## Back In Black

405 I'd be inclined, as it's a short week, to revert back to your pre carb cycle cals and macro's. Or add in a few extra carbs. I lost more fat in the first 2 weeks of my maintenance than in the last 4 weeks of my cut.

Just a thought!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Ur looking good bro... new avi is sweet
> 
> Not been about for a bit, my lifestyle is shocking ATM... Still managing to hit the gym and all that but its a real effort with all the shit thats going on.... I just dont seem to have the time LOL
> 
> Every time i set myself up with a plan to diet I start and after a week something comes up that ****s all my plans up! Hopefully I have a home straight now and not too much im my way...
> 
> Ur really doing gd, wish i was cut like u bro


Hey man thx for stopping by! Sometimes life can be hectic for sure! I hope everything works out for ya soon so u can get back on a progrAm  :Smilie:  i know from ur other thread that when getting cut becomes important enuff to ya ull get it dun .. Look forward to seeing it when it happens! Also i havent forgotten about the diet where u hit the macros including crap food (or tasty food however u wanna look at it) to see if u can still cut.. Maybe one day u can get around to that one!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 405 I'd be inclined, as it's a short week, to revert back to your pre carb cycle cals and macro's. Or add in a few extra carbs. I lost more fat in the first 2 weeks of my maintenance than in the last 4 weeks of my cut.
> 
> Just a thought!


Yeh stem i ran a maintenance diet for about 10days pre carb cycle of @2800cals.. Im gonna go with that again except this time im gonna shoot for:

2500cals
250g pro
250g carbs
56g fat

Already have diet put together..

Actual macros: 
2518cals
261g pro
245g carbs
57g fat

Have carbs in meals 1-5.. These carbs do not include veggies which will be 900g broccoli.. I think maintenance is @2800 but figd id start a little low.. May actually do chest/bis tomorrow! Thats gonna be weird  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Looks good!

Chest-bi's for me too!

----------


## --->>405<<---

morning guys and gals!

should be a good day today.. debating whether im gonna lift and/or do cardio today.. had power workout yesterday which is a heavy workout.. did 4 sets on chest so i may need to give it a day before working chest again.. ill def do some cardio.. i suppose im gonna be doing more cardio now that im on a maintenance diet again..

----------


## Back In Black

Nah, maintenance cals and LESS cardio has worked for me! Your call bud.

Give chest a rest definitely. Have a great day!

----------


## bikeral

Happy Monday 405.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Nah, maintenance cals and LESS cardio has worked for me! Your call bud.
> 
> Give chest a rest definitely. Have a great day!


sweet deal dude  :Smilie:  i suppose ill just do cardio 2 or 3 x per week and see how i fare..  :Smilie:

----------


## Bodacious

> 1. oatmeal pancakes recipe:
> 1cup oats(ground into powder in food processor)
> 1cup lowfat cottage cheese
> 7large eggwhites
> cinnamon(to taste)
> vanilla(to taste)
> 
> grind up oats and add all other ingredients into food processor.. blend til smoothe.. cook like a pancake and i eat with sugar free syrup.. very good and good for u!
> 
> ...


Hey 405 that's pancake recipe how many does it make? And on your workout u say and repeat all in the same day?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Hey 405 that's pancake recipe how many does it make? And on your workout u say and repeat all in the same day?


1. Pancake amt depends how big u make em.. I prefer mine about 5" in diameter aNd it makes about 10.. I eat em all  :Smilie: 

2. The sample workout above i go thru twice each day.. Its important to make sure u take @45-60secs per set for all sets.. This means @2secs down and 1-2secs back up.. For every rep.. Its brutal.. 

On day 2 swap flat bench for incline and rows for pulldowns and add 3 sets calves on day 2 as well..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Had me a nice relaxing 5mile run today.. I need some new running shoes  :Smilie: 

Hey stem im curious to ur thoughts on a banana PWO on maintenance? Maybe in a shake with some oats..bout 50g carbs worth plus 50g whey.. ??

----------


## RaginCajun

> Had me a nice relaxing 5mile run today.. I need some new running shoes 
> 
> Hey stem im curious to ur thoughts on a banana PWO on maintenance? Maybe in a shake with some oats..bout 50g carbs worth plus 50g whey.. ??



go get fit for the shoes, your feet will love you. there are some old threads about it lurking on here somewhere. when i was doing the paleo diet and training for a triathlon, i would have one after my training sessions and my body loved it!

----------


## JohnnnyBlazzze

Check out the shoes that look like feet i forget what they're called lol.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well guys i actually woke up this am and did 40mins fasted cardio! it was actually nice  :Smilie:  not so much while i was doing it but mainly afterward when i was driving to work.. i forgot how much better i feel in the am after i wake up and do cardio and then take a shower and go to work! i think i may incorporate it moreso into my program again.. i did it today cuz yesterday i was feeling a little bloated.. kept checking the mirror to see if id gained any fat.. anyone else do that?  :Wink: 

stem wat do u think about a banana added to pwo shake? while running maintenance? the idea of the sugar doesnt seem as if it would be too bad pwo esp since im not so much trying to burn fat at this point but mainly maintain..

----------


## Back In Black

Mate I had half a banana with my pre workout meal yesterday. Fruit will have less of an impact when not cutting but still in moderation. Post workout is fine as your fat intake in that meal should be low anyway!

Thanks for making me think about food, not even porridge or pancakes is turning me on today!

----------


## bikeral

> well guys i actually woke up this am and did 40mins fasted cardio! it was actually nice  not so much while i was doing it but mainly afterward when i was driving to work.. *i forgot how much better i feel in the am after i wake up and do cardio and then take a shower and go to work!* i think i may incorporate it moreso into my program again.. i did it today cuz yesterday i was feeling a little bloated.. kept checking the mirror to see if id gained any fat.. anyone else do that? 
> 
> stem wat do u think about a banana added to pwo shake? while running maintenance? the idea of the sugar doesnt seem as if it would be too bad pwo esp since im not so much trying to burn fat at this point but mainly maintain..


That's why I plan to do 30 mins even when bulking. Feel really good all day after morning cardio.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well chest/bis was good  :Smilie:  i think i may be holding some water still.. Dont like it.. Considering running 3days at zero carbs to drop it.. Then a small refeed or maybe not.. Itll be cruise time then.. Only thing is if i get rid of the water now thrn go on the cruise boat i mite just pick the water back up anyways.. Maybe i should just try to flush the water out by drinkn a ton of water.. Its mainly in the lower back area.. I feel a little jiggly.. 

Anyone??

----------


## Back In Black

Mate, it's just the extra carbs, your body will adjust. Just drink some water. Just wait til the cruise with all the salt laden food, then you'll be holding water!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Its weird its like im good one day then i wake up and next thing i know i have jiggly stuff where i didnt have jiggly stuff  :Wink: 

Also im backed up to boot! Ill be hitting the dang psyllium husk hard today and tomorrow  :Smilie: 

^^ this never was a prob for me before.. 

I will say my abs and pecs and shoulders lookd pretty good in the gym after my pump session  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Jiggly is better on certain parts of a woman than a man. 

Mate, eat some dubious chicken like I did and your problem will very quickly disappear!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> *Jiggly is better on certain parts of a woman than a man.* 
> 
> Mate, eat some dubious chicken like I did and your problem will very quickly disappear!


Very helpful! LOL  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well its another glorious day! got a good day ahead of me.. long lunch during which i think ill be doing back/tris and maybe PWO cardio...

hoping the psyllium husk i took yesterday kicks in today! LOL

will also be drinking a lot of water again.. not feeling as water retentive as yesterday.. hope yall are doing well!

----------


## Back In Black

wettest day of the year here mate!

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^bummer dude! i have shorts a tee shirt and flip flops on and not a cloud in the sky! high:85degrees  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

> ^^bummer dude! i have shorts a tee shirt and flip flops on and not a cloud in the sky! high:85degrees


March was the hottest on record. There's been a drought declared in alot of parts of the south east. And it has now rained everyday for 3 weeks. I mean, it's not as if the rain is warm!

----------


## --->>405<<---

oh i almost forgot.. i weighed last nite at 189.6lbs up from 184 on sunday ... was at 186 this am.. so 2lbs heavier than sunday.. not that i care how much i weigh..

----------


## Back In Black

Mate you just need a big dump!

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL ur rite.. had a semi decent one already today! sad that im excited about a good crap  :Wink:  LOL gonna take some more psyllium husk today as well.. but first i think ill get my workout in.. may have to do cardio outside cuz im doing a lot of farting.. isnt dieting wonderful! LMAO

----------


## --->>405<<---

had a decent back/tri workout.. sisnt do any cardio.. didnt do any deads either.. the last thing i need is to hurt my back 2days before a cruise!  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well to start out this is my last day of work before the cruise and i decided tomake it only half a day! YES!!  :Smilie: 

2. i am tired of farting so im gonna discontinue broccoli from my diet today to see if that helps.. im farting so much that it could have a bad effect on my trip.. ridiculous, maybe i need to go to the doctor bad farting LOL.. i havent had any broccoli today and havent farted but maybe 3 or 4 times.. yesterday i bet i farted 200 times.. \

3. i woke up this am and i think my body is finally letting go of the water it was holding on to.. thank God! i was afraid i was gonna have to run a 2day depletion today and tomorrow to get rid of it.. weighed in at 184 this am so im back to normal.. 

i tell u coming off a carb cycle like i was on and going back to maintenance was kinda rough.. i suppose its cuz the body wasnt used to carbs and they made me hold water??.. i got all the way up to 190 lbs as of last nite.. it really sucked!

today after work ill do legs and tan and car wash and cut the grass..  :Smilie:  should be a good day!

----------


## Back In Black

More importantly, did you 'give birth' yet!

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL .. yeh kind of.. no real BIG solution but more several smaller ones  :Smilie:

----------


## bikeral

Funny how all conversations eventually lead talk about...

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Funny how all conversations eventually lead talk about...


??regularity and farting??  :Smilie:

----------


## bikeral

I was thinking shitting and farting but thats pretty much the same  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## --->>405<<---

*vacation starts now!!! Woo hoo!!!*

----------


## RaginCajun

Have a wonderful one 405! Take care of the wifey

----------


## bikeral

Yo, have a great trip man. Enjoy the food and the sights.

----------


## JohnnnyBlazzze

> *vacation starts now!!! Woo hoo!!!*


Congrats dude, all your hard work has paid off and led to some much earned time off. Enjoy it man.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx guys. Lazy day today.. Woke up and was gonna do fastEd cardio but just didnt feel like it. May go 4 a run later.. Have to find a suit jacket, Get packed, and take the dogs to "the farm" (they get a vacation too!) .. Thats about it.. Nice having nuttin really to do  :Smilie: 

Id also like to note i had a good wkout yesterday.. Think i need to go up on weight with squats.. Did 4 sets 10 at 315lbs fairly easily.. Just a little scared of adding weight without a spotter.. Could prob do 405 ...

----------


## --->>405<<---

Im outta here fellas! 

Meal 1: blueberry pancakes and bacon courtesy of cracker barrel!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well fellas i made it back in one piece! Will be very interested to see how much fat i gained.. I know i gained some but not as much as i thought i would (at least going by the mirror).. Id also like to note i ate 3-4 desserts per day and prob 10 sourdough rolls with butter per day as well as all the other food i ate ! It was awesome!! LOL..

----------


## JohnnnyBlazzze

> Well fellas i made it back in one piece! Will be very interested to see how much fat i gained.. I know i gained some but not as much as i thought i would (at least going by the mirror).. Id also like to note i ate 3-4 desserts per day and prob 10 sourdough rolls with butter per day as well as all the other food i ate ! It was awesome!! LOL..


Glad you enjoyed your vacation man and sounds like you had a blast lol. Welcome back.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> oh i almost forgot.. i weighed last nite at 189.6lbs up from 184 on sunday ... was at 186 this am.. so 2lbs heavier than sunday.. not that i care how much i weigh..


Jut thought id add to this posted On 4/25/12.. Weight 186.. 

Did preliminary weigh-in today: 197.2! Now its the end of the day and ive eaten a fair amt today.. Thats 11lbs in 11days LOL!! 

SteM just as i suspected im gonna have to cut for prob 4 weeks before i do any maintenance.. Ill be interested to see how i fare after 1 week back on diet.. Im sure a lot of this is water.. But i did eat ALOT of food.. Bad food that tasted good! Have no clue of macros but at a guess at least:
4350-5000cals
150g pro
600g - 800g carbs
150g +- fat

Somewhere in that neighborhood im sure LOL..

----------


## Back In Black

Ha ha, told you it would be about 10lbs! Run a maintenance this week N see where you are, I reckon you'll be back to weight in less than 3 weeks.

Glad you had fun, hope the family did too. Did your wife enjoy showing you off?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Ha ha, told you it would be about 10lbs! Run a maintenance this week N see where you are, I reckon you'll be back to weight in less than 3 weeks.
> 
> Glad you had fun, hope the family did too. *Did your wife enjoy showing you off?*


LOL she tried to get me to buy a speedo short-shorts tight bathing suit.. I have a pic ill post tomorrow of it.. I actually considered it! There were a few european guys wearing them and i def lookd better than them! Surprising wat some people will wear! We had a blast! Swam with dolphins.. Literally! Held both fins and got pulled thru water! Very very cool!  :Smilie:  

Maintenance huh? Not strait into cut?

----------


## akali

haha sounds like a blast, glad you had fun buddy!

----------


## bikeral

Welcome back. Glad you had a good time.

----------


## ironbeck

swimming with dolphins is on my bucket list....cool

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Welcome back. Glad you had a good time.


Thx al! Yeh i did dude  :Smilie:  ready to go again  :Smilie:  glad to be back too.. Nice being on here with yall ..

----------


## bikeral

> Thx al! Yeh i did dude  ready to go again  glad to be back too.. Nice being on here with yall ..


Place was a bit quiet without ya dude.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> swimming with dolphins is on my bucket list....cool


Beck do it man! Funny it was on my wifes "40 before 40" list! It was very cool to be in the water with such a powerful animal that was so eager to please and loving and just awesome dude!! I woulda given her a hug if i couldve  :Smilie: 

I actually tapped the water and held my hands in the aIr and she swan up to me and stuck her upper half out the water with her stomach facing me and i grabbed both fins on either side of her and held on and she flipped backwards and towed me thru the water while she was upside down!! It was freaking amazing!! To move that fast u could feel her power!! Do it dude! First chance u get!

----------


## ironbeck

I plan to this summer we(me and wifey) r going sky diving first...but I grew up on the ocean and I think Dolphins r majestic mammals.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Yeh thats also on her list LOL (skydiving).. 

Yeh dolphins r awesome!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Place was a bit quiet without ya dude.


Well im back buddy!!  :Smilie:  lets make some noise!! I got some work to do  :Smilie:  gonna be fun seeing how i respond after this 9 day cheat..

----------


## RaginCajun

glad you and the wife had a good trip! 11 lbs on a cruise, very doable! hahaha!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ok guys now official am weigh in (after peeing and dropping 2 deuces): 194.0lbs

Startn weight 186 @7.8%bf
Today weight 194 @8.3%bf

So 8lbs and 0.5%bf gain.. Not bad considering i had 9days of eating whatever i wanted  :Smilie:  i have some pics ill post when i leave the house (no internet here).. Pretty happy! It also gives me an idea of howmmuch a single cheat meal affects me (not much) considering i averaged 3 meals per day for 9days = 27cheat meals

----------


## Bodacious

Hey 405,

Glad you had a good time. I wouldn't say you did bad at all. Nine days of eating whatever and whenever. Did you workout or stay active any??? I am jw because I am going on one in July. I would be happy with 9 lbs. But it looms like they ha e a super nice gym on some ships. But anyways glad you had a good time. Ttyl

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx Bodacious.. Yeh i lifted 2 days: chest/back, shoulders/arms.. And did 4 days fasted cardio 60mins, 45,45,30 (as u can see i got slacker and slacker!) LOL  :Smilie:

----------


## joebailey1271

Glad u had fun, u needed it after all that hard work.

----------


## --->>405<<---

morning fellows and gals.. well here i go back in the gym for chest/bis.. after im gonna prob do a 4 mile run pwo.. stem u mentioned i should run maintenance this week then re evaluate after i see how i level out.. had planned on startn a carb cycle immediately to try to drop as much water and fat as possible as soon as possible.. was a little curious if u have a reason for suggesting this? (maintenance).. which i am running but it goes against my ingrained cutting instinct!  :Wink:

----------


## JohnnnyBlazzze

> Ok guys now official am weigh in (after peeing and dropping 2 deuces): 194.0lbs
> 
> *Startn weight 186 @7.8%bf
> Today weight 194 @8.3%bf*
> 
> So 8lbs and 0.5%bf gain.. Not bad considering i had 9days of eating whatever i wanted  i have some pics ill post when i leave the house (no internet here).. Pretty happy! It also gives me an idea of howmmuch a single cheat meal affects me (not much) considering i averaged 3 meals per day for 9days = 27cheat meals


.5bf% gained over vacation isn't bad at all man wow haha. Nice sticking to workout and activity on vacation, that seems to be my kryptonite. Everytime I leave to visit family or something i originally plan to at least maintain cardio but it just never happens.

----------


## Back In Black

> morning fellows and gals.. well here i go back in the gym for chest/bis.. after im gonna prob do a 4 mile run pwo.. stem u mentioned i should run maintenance this week then re evaluate after i see how i level out.. had planned on startn a carb cycle immediately to try to drop as much water and fat as possible as soon as possible.. was a little curious if u have a reason for suggesting this? (maintenance).. which i am running but it goes against my ingrained cutting instinct!


Your clean maintenance will drop you water and fat. Remember the maintenance cals should be that of your old weight, meaning you will not ingest enough to support your new weight.

What are your plans when you drop back to pre holiday stats?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Your clean maintenance will drop you water and fat. Remember the maintenance cals should be that of your old weight, meaning you will not ingest enough to support your new weight.
> 
> *What are your plans when you drop back to pre holiday stats?*


dunno  :Smilie:  got any suggestions?  :Wink:  LOL

currently im running [email protected] 260/260/60 pro/carb/fat

according to katch/mcardle tdee at 185 @10%bf is 3100.. i figured it prob to be closer to 2800 so im running 2600 to be safe  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Yeah, I reckon knock 10% off, that's what seems to work for me. My maintenance of 168lbs is about 2650 so you are safe indeed!

Bulk, bulk, bulk, bulk, bulk!!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

pre and post cruise pics... 1. pre 2. post 3. pre 4. post

----------


## Back In Black

A subtle difference I guess, maybe a bit smoother and maybe a bit fuller.

Soon be back to whatever normal is!

----------


## --->>405<<---

:Smilie:  not bad for 9 days of balls to the wall eating!  :Smilie:

----------


## NOSUPERMODEL

I actually think the post ones look better. You look thicker. I know its water, but it gives the appearance of being thicker.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx nsm  :Smilie:  for now id rather be leAner and less thick than fatter and thicker!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Id Also like to note i had a good chest bi day and did cardio pwo which was freaking brutal! I startd planning on running 4 miles and had to stop at about 3/4 mile and walk cuz my calf/shin area was on fire! Havent experienced this in a long time.. Maybe cuz of the xtra weight? 

So i decided to do 8 sets of sprints which was equally as brutal cuz my calves were burning in agonizing pain after each set.. On top of this i developed a stitch in my side and some heartburn also kicked in! It was more miserable than it sounds but i did manage to complete All 8 sets.. I vowed then to never skip my am fasted cardio because: "i can just do a pwo run" again!! And i mean it!! At least til i get back down to 185!

----------


## ironbeck

I think your calfs are just extra tight....try warming up slower and stretching them, its definitely not the extra weight(just a couple of lbs)...

----------


## ironbeck

While on gear if I don't stretch my parts for a week they get tight.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i weighed 193 today so down 4lbs from sunday.. 

did am fasted cardio(40mins) on elliptical and my dang calves were tight as heck again and it was tuff to get thru the workout but i suffered thru watching the clock like never before!

lunch will be back/tris

5meals just wasnt enuff yesterday so i modified diet today to get a 6th meal in.. new macros and cals;
2684
300g pro
236g carbs
59g fat

basically 45p/35c/20f

----------


## Papiriqui

Well after a long vacation for you and a huge absence for me i thought i dropped by and say Welcome back!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

*hey hey! my man pap!*

thought id never see u again dude! wtf?? LOL  :Smilie:

----------


## Papiriqui

hahahahahahahaha nahh i am still here on the same path, ive thrown a few wrenches in the engine along the way but still true to the goal....It's been hectic at work and with the am and pm workouts as well as everything else i kind of dropped this site and went on my own for a bit. 

Barely have time to come in here anymore, just came back and im on the AAS part learning a bit before hand since later on i want to start the bulk, stem dropped by my thread lol so i had to come back and say Hello you know!! Definitely missed you and everyone else, talking here, checking in, etc.

----------


## --->>405<<---

thats cool  :Smilie:  well i hope u make it a habit to stop in more often! u know diet is the most important aspect of this game..  :Wink:

----------


## Papiriqui

Definitely!!! Will stop by a few times a week but nothing like blogging as before, barely have time to sit infront of the laptop anymore and the iphone app sucks big time so thats that. By the way you are looking fantastic guy!!!! Great job!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx man!  :Smilie: 

I remember u say iphone app.. I have an iphone and dont use any app.. I just get on here like u would any other website and it works fine..  :Smilie:  its wat im on now..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well fellows did an interesting split workout today.. back/shoulders.. liked it  :Smilie:  kept it simple..

chins: 4 x 10
seated mil press BB: 4 x 10
bent BB rows: 4 x 10
side/front laterals: 4 x 8 (each)

thats it! come monday if i am not dropping weight any faster than i am rite now its gonna be a hard carb cycle for 4 weeks! 193lbs again today.. thats 8lbs overweight in my book! and i can tell by how my underwear fit!  :Smilie:

----------


## akali

I have been following the kai greene routine he does back/shoulders i find it rather good since alot of the pulling and pushing exercises are using similiar muscle groups!

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^^ i had a pretty impressive pump going!  :Smilie:  wish i lookd like that all the time  :Wink:

----------


## jpowell

I have a split where i train back on monday, then on tiesday follow up woth shoulders and upper traps. Been workn pretty good for me. Gives a nice bak pump, and boulder shoulders look.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well i tell u im eatn 2700cals and i feel hungry and like i want about twice as much food! Its times like this i wonder how i made it on 1400cals! Monday or tuesday (depending which carb cycle i run) i will be def eatn ECA!!!! Ready for this xtra fat to be gone.. Seems like i have more now than Monday.. Prob a mental thing cuz ive been working out and dieting..

----------


## --->>405<<---

woke up this am weighing 192.. did some fasted cardio:

6min warmup
10min HIIT
5min rest
20min moderate

then got back on the scale and came in at 191 LOL.. ill be glad when i get back in the 180s.. i know the scale doesnt matter but rite now considering the type of food i ate to get my weight elevated i know the extra weight is water and fat.. neither of which i want to be carrying around!

no lifting today..

----------


## akali

hey 405 i have been following you alot lately, what is your cardio consisting of? i am at the 25 minute mark so far ( in terms of cardio ) some days i do heavy bag work ( punching bag ) 2 minute light sparring, 30 seconds rest. for 25 minutes, would this be effective on days i can't make it to the gym for cardio

----------


## --->>405<<---

akali i would say depending on ur goals whatever gets ur heartrate up will work.. i would think sparring as u described would be pretty good depending on the intensity ur doing it at.. id also like to note adding in some kicking would prob prove to be beneficial in many areas!

my cardio is 3-4 days am fasted for 40mins on elliptical.. with an occasional session thrown in like i posted above  :Smilie:  im not hard hard cutting rite now and once i get back to my previous weight and bf ill prob drop it back to 2-3days per week.. when i start bulking i may just do it 2x per week to keep cardiovascular system healthier!

it all depends on ur current goals.. if ur cutting hard id suggest 5-6days per week am fasted or pwo for 45mins!

----------


## akali

yes trying to get below 20% haha. today is my day off just had a 30 minute heavy bag session, yes i throw in kicks i used to do kickboxing before i got injured so it feels good to do some bag work every now and then. I will update my nutritional log now soon 4 week progress and hopefully get some criticism from yourself! cheers

----------


## --->>405<<---

Not a lot to say.. Have legs today.. Will be my first leg workout since pre vacation  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

> Not a lot to say.. Have legs today.. Will be my first leg workout since pre vacation


Good luck tomorrow then!

----------


## --->>405<<---

:Smilie:  yeh.. Will prob be a lil sore tomorrow! Lookn forward to getting legs done though.. Have missd doing them.. Dont know how i went years without doing legs.. Feel a lot better and look a lot better with muscular legs!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Had a good leg workout.. Actually legs/tris.. Kept it simple:

(After warmup)
Squat: 6sets 10 x 315
Leg curl: 6sets 10 x 120
Closegrip bench: 6sets 10 x 135, 185, 205, 185, 185, 185

Dun deal  :Smilie:  lookn better in mirror.. Feeln kinda strong and muscular! 

Need spotter for squats so i can see how heavy i can go.. Bet i could rep 405..

----------


## Bodacious

> Had a good leg workout.. Actually legs/tris.. Kept it simple:
> 
> (After warmup)
> Squat: 6sets 10 x 315
> Leg curl: 6sets 10 x 120
> Closegrip bench: 6sets 10 x 135, 185, 205, 185, 185, 185
> 
> Dun deal  lookn better in mirror.. Feeln kinda strong and muscular! 
> 
> ...


Hey 405 hey man u don't think ur over Workin ur body parts that's a lot of reps and sets. What do u think? 

They will stop growing if its to much.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Bodacious i dont think 6 sets is too much per bodypart  :Smilie: 

I have done as many as 12 sets of squats.. 2 warmup and 10 working sets ... As a matter of fact i felt more like i wasnt doing enuff!!  :Wink: 

On chest day i usually do:
4 sets flat
4 sets incline
4 sets flyes or pec deck

12sets total..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well nutn really to say.. Had a busy mothers days morning.. Maybe next year i wont wait til the last second.. Nah i prob will  :Wink: 

Legs r pretty dang sore today! (stem)  :Smilie:  at least i know i workd em good!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well today is last day with carbs til friday.. Maybe i can cut down enuff this one week to go back to maintenance next week for a few weeks.. Weighed 191 this am so i have about 5lbs to lose.. Dont know how much of that is fat.. Maybe all of it in which case itll prob take longer than a 1 week carb cycle.. I am 4lbs lighter than this time last week and feel fairly lean.. Prob wont do anything today.. Maybe cardio this afternoon but i mite work tonite so i may just rest..

----------


## RaginCajun

are you runing that ECA stack?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Yeh i will be startn tomorrow.. To fight hunger mainly..

----------


## RaginCajun

i need to try something. i stay hungry!

----------


## --->>405<<---

ECA stack works well.. U can start with half dose.. 

1baby aspirin (actually full dose of this but its baby aspirin :Smilie: )
12.5mg primatene
100mg caffeine

Works great for suppressing appetite.. When it slows u can double the primatene and caffeine and leave aspirin the same  :Smilie:

----------


## RaginCajun

i may leave the aspirin out and just do EC. i have asthma so i don't take any type of aspirin. i may have to look into it, thanks!

----------


## akali

do you take the ECA stack pre workout, or when exactly? i may try it i have all the things in my cuboard!

----------


## --->>405<<---

When on full dose i take it rite after breakfast, pre workout, and @3pm... Some people have a hard time sleeping if they take it too late.. Im not one of those people! U may not wanna take it later than 2pm  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Stem need ur opinion: 
pre cruise bf:7.8%
post cruise: 8.3%
after 1 week maintenance: 8.75%

Question: maintenance 1 more week or cut??? I usually chek it sundays but fkrgot and so did it today.. Weight down to 188lbs from 197 when i got home.. Pre weight: 186...

Id also like to note i feel leaner and think i am leaner than last week even though calipers say otherwise.. User error??

----------


## Back In Black

Well, readings can be off here and there so....

How do you LOOK compared to when you went away?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Not far off from memory (which is poor)  :Wink: 

Yesterday i was 191lbs and i drank a fair amt of water yesterday (first since ive been home) and woke up 3lbs lighter this am at 188.. Also i ate more yesterday than usual cuz i workd last nite..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Logically it is hard to believe i couldve gaind .45%bf over a week while at the same time losing 9lbs of weight eating @2800cals clean.. Maybe the increase is cuz she didnt measure accurately last week or possible residual fat deposits that hadnt shown up yet from my trip?

----------


## Back In Black

I wouldn't sweat it mate, 2700cals again as 'maintenance' will do, or up it to 2800-2900 which will be closer to your true maintenance.

Anyhow, quit cutting, I need a bulking partner!

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL!! i like being lean  :Smilie:  i have considered increasing my cals but i dont know how well ill fare on a bulk.. I get the least bit "jiggly" and mentally it wears on me tremendously until i rectify the situation! I do wanna bulk though.. Need to get my shoulder lookd at.. It doesnt bother me really but i can tell in pics that i dont "hold" my left shoulder the same as my right.. Almost like it is rounded towards the front more.. I can tell when i look at back shots.. My right shoulder looks square and my left one looks more rounded.

----------


## Back In Black

There'll be a way around the postural issue. It would likely still be there after te shoulder is fixed, you need to strengthen/tighten the relevant muscles and maybe ease any tight muscles.

I'm preferring being lean rather than 'big' too and I think that, as it's summer(soon), I will be more conscientious about how clean my bulk is.

----------


## RaginCajun

hey bud, just wondering if you ever got your BW done again for your elevated liver enzymes?

----------


## --->>405<<---

:Smilie:  no.. Thx for bringing it up  :Wink:  i need to i suppose.. Gotta be diet-related..

----------


## RaginCajun

> no.. Thx for bringing it up  i need to i suppose.. Gotta be diet-related..



was just checking! and i am still doubtful it is diet related, i am still on the notion that it is the TRT. any previous family history of liver disease or hepatitis? hopefully it was just the blood test that day and now your levels are back within normal range.

----------


## --->>405<<---

No family history of liver disease or hepatitis no.. Heart attack yes!  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

The following was copied and pasted from dr john crisler's website: all things male:

The risk of possible liver disease is listed on the package insert. But this is a throw back to the abuse of testosterone supplementation-in other words, taking steroids . I have never heard of appropriate TRT damaging the liver.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thought u guys mite like to know of a conversation i had with my wife yesterday about my bf% since the cruise and she said... " i dont know quite how to put it without hurting ur feelings but i did notice while u were cutting the grass that u lookd "chunkier" than u did before we left. Chunky isnt the rite word but u know what im trying to say. U still look good just not as defined as before..." 

Chunky.. LOL.. Thats one of those words once u say it u cant really "unsay".. LOL..

----------


## RaginCajun

> Thought u guys mite like to know of a conversation i had with my wife yesterday about my bf% since the cruise and she said... " i dont know quite how to put it without hurting ur feelings but i did notice while u were cutting the grass that u lookd "chunkier" than u did before we left. Chunky isnt the rite word but u know what im trying to say. U still look good just not as defined as before..." 
> 
> Chunky.. LOL.. Thats one of those words once u say it u cant really "unsay".. LOL..



hahahahaha!

----------


## Back In Black

She could have quickly covered her tracks and said she meant Hunky, d'oh!

Oh well, chunky monkey, get that cardio done again!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Yeh i dont mind doing the cardio i just havent felt like doing it at 530am rite out of the bed!  :Smilie:  i suppose not being fat hasnt helped with my motivation...

----------


## Back In Black

Or still 'de mob happy'!.

I like to do it for my health rather than anything. And the discipline/martyrdom of doing a cardio session whilst most folk are still in bed!

----------


## --->>405<<---

De mob happy??

----------


## JohnnnyBlazzze

Whatsup 405 I know i asked you this a while back but when did you start carb cycling, around 12% bf if i can remember correctly? And did you convert to the UD 2.0 once you started seeing stalls in your weight loss of a normal low carb cut?

----------


## Back In Black

> De mob happy??


Ha ha, maybe that's another British thing. When soldiers are going on leave/getting out the army kinda like a vacation!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Whatsup 405 I know i asked you this a while back but when did you start carb cycling, around 12% bf if i can remember correctly? And did you convert to the UD 2.0 once you started seeing stalls in your weight loss of a normal low carb cut?


I believe i was @12% and used reg carb cycle to get to 9% and then switched to ud2.0 for 4 weeks and got to 7.8%

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Ha ha, maybe that's another British thing. When soldiers are going on leave/getting out the army kinda like a vacation!


So a vacation from hard cardio??  :Smilie:  tat wat ur suggesting? I suppose yes would be the correct answer! Im thinking of finding a way to fit cardio into lunch schedule.. Currently im doing a 3 day split so im thinking on the off days going to the ymca at lunch and doing the elliptical.. Thatll gimme 3days rite there and maybe add 1 fasted day.. Wat u think?

----------


## JohnnnyBlazzze

> I believe i was @12% and used reg carb cycle to get to 9% and then switched to ud2.0 for 4 weeks and got to 7.8%


I gotcha, when you started carb cycling at 12% was that because the regular low carb approach was stalling or you just wanted to try something different?

----------


## --->>405<<---

A bit of both i think.. Id been on low carb for like 5months and thought the change mite throw my body out of its comfort zone and my patience was wearing thin! It workd  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

> So a vacation from hard cardio??  tat wat ur suggesting? I suppose yes would be the correct answer! Im thinking of finding a way to fit cardio into lunch schedule.. Currently im doing a 3 day split so im thinking on the off days going to the ymca at lunch and doing the elliptical.. Thatll gimme 3days rite there and maybe add 1 fasted day.. Wat u think?


You know me, I do HIIT 2-3 times per week when cutting and that's about it. 

Mate, whatever fits in your overall plan. You've been dieting and doing lots of cardio for many months now. I suspect you needed the break?!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Its. Nice to sleep in  :Smilie:  ill prob do it 3x per week like i said above and maybe try for 1fasted hiit/moderate combo  :Smilie:

----------


## Papiriqui

> Its. Nice to sleep in  ill prob do it 3x per week like i said above and maybe try for 1fasted hiit/moderate combo


I hear ya bud!!! The only thing i look forward the most on weekends is the part where i can sleep and wake up by myself instead of the freaking alarm going off.

----------


## --->>405<<---

I hear ya pap! Good to see u  :Smilie: 

Well no cardio today.. Screw it.. Like stem says u can get to 10% with out cardio so i should def be able to stay where i am at  :Smilie:  maybe ill do some tomorrow! LOL

----------


## Papiriqui

> I hear ya pap! Good to see u 
> 
> Well no cardio today.. Screw it.. Like stem says u can get to 10% with out cardio so i should def be able to stay where i am at  maybe ill do some tomorrow! LOL


Of course, there is always tomorrow or the next day lol

----------


## busybody

405!!! hahaha. funniest shit ever.
yeah...when someone says something like that to you, man...it's like the worst thing ever.
it's like the worst, harshest thing you could possibly have said to you. and when it's someone
close to you like that....man. cuts to the bone. especially for those of us that like to 
stay in some kinda decent shape.

I'd almost guarantee after that one....you will lose some weight fast!!
best incentive ever...but worst way to get it.

My girl took a picture of me and put it online...I had never seen it.
I had been lifting hard, but not paying attention to the diet....
and she took it right after we had a huge meal, so I had a serious food baby
going...I saw that picture like a month later...holy sh#t.
you've never seen weight come off so fast!!!!
hahahaha

----------


## GirlyGymRat

just stopping by. Everybody needs a break and that chunky stuff should be gone in a week...probably water retention!

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx GGR  :Smilie:  yeh its pretty muh gone now .. it didnt hurt too bad as im still lean even with chunky and it was def worth a week worth of balls to the wall eating like a maniac!  :Smilie:  i also got a new laptop today! yay!! this one is a lot nicer than the other one i had.. so im back in full force again :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well another day.. this maintenance isnt all its cracked up to be! i feel like im not doing enuff.. eating too much .. and not making any progress! LOL legs/tris at lunch today.. maybe ill feel better after my workout!

----------


## Back In Black

> well another day.. this maintenance isnt all its cracked up to be! i feel like im not doing enuff.. eating too much .. and not making any progress! LOL legs/tris at lunch today.. maybe ill feel better after my workout!


Ha ha I've just done 7 weeks of it I think.

I'm thinking it has done me good a has the Deload workout fortnight!

Keep on it dude!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Fortnight? Whats that 2 weeks?  :Wink:

----------


## Back In Black

> Fortnight? Whats that 2 weeks?


Blimey, you don't even use that word, Guv'nor?!

Two weeks, yes mate!

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL^^ i feel fat today.. Man ive been off my aromatase inhibitor for about a month now.. Ive noticed being tired when i wake up and i feel kinda moody.. Hmmm.. And i feel a bit jiggly.. I wonder if theres a connection?  :Wink:

----------


## bikeral

Do you cry when you see love stories on TV?  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## --->>405<<---

LMAO!! Yeh i know rite! Thats kinda what its like a bit.. Somewhat emotional.. Weird and not wat i want  :Smilie:  LOL.. Good comment al!

----------


## bikeral

Have a good weekend bro.

----------


## JohnnnyBlazzze

405's got the moody to make them girls show them boooties.

Have rad weekend brozekiel

----------


## t-gunz

just popped in to say hi. 

been away being at a fat **** in hawaii eating cheese cakes. at the cheese cake factory.

just thought id rub it in  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

> 405's got the moody to make them girls show them boooties.
> 
> Have rad weekend brozekiel


And you Americans have the gall to say you don't understand what I'm on about!?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 405's got the moody to make them girls show them boooties.
> 
> Have rad weekend brozekiel


LOL thx man u 2..

----------


## --->>405<<---

> And you Americans have the gall to say you don't understand what I'm on about!?


LMAO  :Smilie:  point taken.. and noted! LOL...

----------


## --->>405<<---

well today may be a good day.. going to buy a sectional for my "man cave" and a 60" TV!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

^^^ u guys are all about the biggest toys...LOL!! enjoy!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Last week 191 @8.75%
This week 189 @8.36%

Where to go from here?  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

> Last week 191 @8.75%
> This week 189 @8.36%
> 
> Where to go from here?


Bulk with me dude. I'll do a clean one an you can do a really dirty one :Wink:

----------


## binsser

when you bulk could you do a all you can eat diet ??? lololol

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Bulk with me dude. I'll do a clean one an you can do a really dirty one


When u startn? I'd like maybe a week or 2 to get my head rite.. Run a 2 week hard carb cycle to get back to 7.8% and then I'd be gtg in my head.. Rite now I still feel like I'm carrying fat from the cruise.. I need a 2 week hard cut to get my head strait.. I'll start tomorrow.. Then we can bulk.. ??? If it startn tomorrow I'll just have to be 14days behind u..

----------


## Back In Black

You see, I knew nobody read my logs :Wink: 

Just completed day 1.

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL.. i knew it was soon.. as thinkn tomorrow but i remember u like to start on saturdays .. guess u went a day late this time  :Wink:  havent been on a lot in the last few days.. will chek ur log out to see how its going  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well not a lot to note on this end.. did chest, bis yesterday.. went well .. diet is the same.. weight seems to be stayn relatively the same.. just putting along.. tryin to decide what i wanna do.. mite not do anything for a little while  :Smilie:

----------


## GirlyGymRat

so just hold???? or do nothing and get chunky????  :Big Grin:  sorry should have resisted - LOL!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> so just hold???? or do nothing and get chunky????  sorry should have resisted - LOL!


LOL! funny girl u are  :Smilie:  by do nothing i meant change nothing  :Smilie:  not sit on my butt everyday and eat ice cream  :Wink:

----------


## jpowell

> LOL! funny girl u are  by do nothing i meant change nothing  not sit on my butt everyday and eat ice cream


Sounds fun?!

----------


## --->>405<<---

what sitting on my butt and eating ice cream?  :Smilie:

----------


## bikeral

> what *sitting on my butt and eating ice cream?*


Sounds good, what do you call that diet? Sedentary carb loading?

----------


## jpowell

> what sitting on my butt and eating ice cream?


Yea, its always easier to be lazy!

----------


## Back In Black

> what sitting on my butt and eating ice cream?


See, I knew you'd be up for a dirty bulk :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> See, I knew you'd be up for a dirty bulk


i need to do something.. i feel like a lazy piece of crap! think ive only done cardio twice in 2 or 3 weeks.. lift 3x per week but its only like 16sets or so per workout..

----------


## bikeral

After vacation it usually takes me 2-3 weeks to get back in my groove with training.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well another day.. back/shoulders today.. looking forward to it!

----------


## --->>405<<---

oh by the way i got more bloodwork cuz ive been off adex for a month to see where im at and i had them check my liver and kidney function.. both of them were back to normal.. so it appears a high protein low carb cycle type diet over a period of time can wreak havoc on the kidneys and liver just like i read about online.. 

a month ago my TRT doc told me to go to my PCP and get more bloodwork done because my liver and kidney function were elevated.. being a typical guy i procrastinated and didnt go (LOL) and hoped when i did follow-up bloodwork (this time) because i had discontinued the carb cycle that my function of both organs would again return to normal.. well they did.. she said my liver was perfect and my kidney function while still slightly elevated was a lot lower than previously and nothing to worry about!

point being.. high protein/low carb/veggie only diet can cause ur kidneys and liver to work harder than they should have to.. food for thought! (pun intended)  :Smilie:

----------


## E-T-R

Just dropping in...
Want to congratulate you on your transformation and only hope I can do the same  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx man and i hope u can too! with this forum u def will as long as u stay dedicated!

----------


## Papiriqui

> oh by the way i got more bloodwork cuz ive been off adex for a month to see where im at and i had them check my liver and kidney function.. both of them were back to normal.. so it appears a high protein low carb cycle type diet over a period of time can wreak havoc on the kidneys and liver just like i read about online.. 
> 
> a month ago my TRT doc told me to go to my PCP and get more bloodwork done because my liver and kidney function were elevated.. being a typical guy i procrastinated and didnt go (LOL) and hoped when i did follow-up bloodwork (this time) because i had discontinued the carb cycle that my function of both organs would again return to normal.. well they did.. she said my liver was perfect and my kidney function while still slightly elevated was a lot lower than previously and nothing to worry about!
> 
> point being.. high protein/low carb/veggie only diet can cause ur kidneys and liver to work harder than they should have to.. food for thought! (pun intended)


Glad everything is back to normal brother!!! I'm getting my self to the lab as well since the last time i went was July of last year...... Another reason to perhaps add some of that good chili to the diet lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

shoot pap i never went to any lab before startn TRT man

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok guys ive been a lazy butt long enuff! pretty much since i left for the cruise on april 28... so as a result i am gonna do a 4 week carb cycle cut starting tomorrow am! no more procrastinating.. 

something like:

moderate: 2200cals, 290g pro, 150g carbs 49g fat (100g from starch, 50g from veggies)

low: 1800cals, 290g pro, 50g carbs, 49g fat (all veggie)

high: 3000cals, 290g pro, 350g carbs, 49g fat (300g from starch, 50g from veggies)

think i may change the split to:
day1 (mon) low: (am fasted cardio, depletion total body)
day2 (tues) low: (depletion total body)
day3 (wed) low: (am fasted cardio only)
day4 (thurs) low: (am fasted cardio; pm mid range weight, mid range reps total body)<--- might have 50g carbs PRE W/O and PWO here..
day5 (fri) high: (off)
day6 (sat) moderate: (heavy total body)
day7 (sun) moderate: (pm cardio HIIT, LIC combo)

this kind of models ud2.0 but i dont run 50% maintenance on low days and instead do 1800 cals.. and instead of 1300g carb load i just do a decent range refeed and introduce carbs back into the diet on day4 pre w/o and pwo.. depending how this works i may switch up in week 2 to model ud2.0 mainly just cuz i love the 1300g carb pig-out fest  :Smilie:  LOL

i need to get all the fat off me thats here cuz i didnt transition well from cutting to maintenance due to the vacation in the middle.. 

bf% came back today btw @8.55% at 191 lbs.. but i feel fatter than that  :Smilie:  i want to get as ripped as possible and then start maintenance like stem did prob @2400 cals for 2 weeks and then go up 100-200cals per week.. but first this fat has to go!!!

after this my goal is to establish a true maintenance by the end of august and then start an aggressive bulk.. maybe a bulk cycle.. theres a local BB contest here in june and im gonna go this yr and chek out the competition and maybe try to get a good bulk cycle followed by a cut cycle and maybe enter it next year depending how those 2 (or 4) cycles go.. ill prob need some input on this as far as timing goes.. 12week bulk cycle should be followed by 12 weeks off and then 12 week cutting cycle.. but this will have to be close to comp time if i decide to enter.. thats 36 weeks which will mean i have to wait later than august to start.. of course i also will have to get my TRT dialed in.. still trying to do that with my AI.. 

kind of a rambling post but i need some goals.. ive noticed about myself without goals i stagnate and thats not good.. need to be striving constantly  :Smilie:

----------


## E-T-R

Seems like you know exactly where you want to be and that's a great thing.

I start a cut tomorrow. I have a definite goal for short and long term. Can't wait to get started.

----------


## --->>405<<---

good luck dude!  :Smilie:  cutting i know.. bulking is still thoeretical for me  :Smilie:

----------


## E-T-R

> good luck dude!  cutting i know.. bulking is still thoeretical for me


Yeah was thinking gettin a log going and that way receiving advice and help along the way... So maybe chime in when you have time

----------


## gearbox

> i need to do something.. i feel like a lazy piece of crap! think ive only done cardio twice in 2 or 3 weeks.. lift 3x per week but its only like 16sets or so per workout..


you only need 12 sets per major muscle group (typically four different exercises) flat, incline, flies, dips for chest  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> you only need 12 sets per major muscle group (typically four different exercises) flat, incline, flies, dips for chest


yeh thx i usually shoot for 12 but this past few weeks while running maintenance and being lazyish i was doing @ 16 sets.. but that was also for 2 bodyparts on a 3 day split  :Smilie: 

sometimes maybe 18sets such as:

chest:
flat 4 sets
incline 4 sets
pec deck or cables or both 4 sets
bb curls 4-6 sets

----------


## --->>405<<---

well if any of u guys wanna put urselves thru 1.5hrs of grueling torture let me know and ill give u the depletion workout i did today and have to do again tomorrow  :Smilie:  1st day of carb cycle went well.. actually dont know if i even feel like hitting 1800 cals today.. debating on just running 1400 so i can carb load thurs nite and friday  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well round 2 of depletion dun and im very glad  :Smilie:  already looking better in the mirror.. i think i like myself carb depleted.. as far as how i look in the mirror.. of course my eyes always gravitate to the abdominal area  :Smilie: 

tomorrow fasted cardio only and thurs fasted cardio am and lunchtime workout.. then i get to load on carbs! yes!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

man i tell u its a stretch going from 3000cals per day for a month down to 1400 overnite  :Smilie:

----------


## JohnnnyBlazzze

> man i tell u its a stretch going from 3000cals per day for a month down to 1400 overnite


Lol the first few days are always the worst, just reading that is making me gnaw on my fingers.

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL tell me about it.. also i get to combine along with the extreme caloric deficit the total elimination of "starchy" carbs for 4 days! and the added bonus of a 2 day total body depletion workout! in a way its kinda nice in the sense i feel like im doing something again.. maintenance was demotivating and boring... although once i get bf where i want it i think ill be ok with it.. i just didnt like it cuz i think im still carrying a little fat from my cruise.. maybe 5lbs..

----------


## JohnnnyBlazzze

> LOL tell me about it.. also i get to combine along with the extreme caloric deficit the total elimination of "starchy" carbs for 4 days! and the added bonus of a 2 day total body depletion workout! in a way its kinda nice in the sense i feel like im doing something again.. maintenance was demotivating and boring... although once i get bf where i want it i think ill be ok with it.. i just didnt like it cuz i think im still carrying a little fat from my cruise.. maybe 5lbs..


I guess it's a case of if the such strictness is worth the results, in your case, I would say it is. I tried UD 2.0 on my deployment (not as clean and correct as yours) but I would just keep thinking about the carb weekends lol. I would get euphoria and sleep like a baby on the weekends it was crazy lol.

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh the carbload thru the weekend is great.. day 4 pwo thru day 5 especially! i originally intended to just do a standard carb cycle but then i got to thinking about my refeed day being only 300g carbs and thought " man thats not enuff... if i just drop cals another 400 on days 1-4 i can eat 1300g carbs with cereal and bagels and stuff LOL".. and here i am.. plus i had decent results with ud2 for the first 3 weeks.. after that i just maintained bf%.. im also hoping the month of maintenance reset whatever was in "diet mode" and maybe ill see better results than i did the last time.. 

im not fat at all and can see abs to a certain extent still but have the stubborn fat love handle area that was gone and is a little chubby now after vacation and i hate it! gotta go.. i think once its gone again i can run maintenance and keep a good eye on it.. it kinda developed almost overnite after the cruise..

----------


## Papiriqui

> ok guys ive been a lazy butt long enuff! pretty much since i left for the cruise on april 28... so as a result i am gonna do a 4 week carb cycle cut starting tomorrow am! no more procrastinating.. 
> 
> something like:
> 
> moderate: 2200cals, 290g pro, 150g carbs 49g fat (100g from starch, 50g from veggies)
> 
> low: 1800cals, 290g pro, 50g carbs, 49g fat (all veggie)
> 
> high: 3000cals, 290g pro, 350g carbs, 49g fat (300g from starch, 50g from veggies)
> ...


I know i was gone for a long time but you are at 191 at 8%, did you bulk while i was gone?? Did i miss something?? Man you are my idol lol I still got a little bit to be at 8% and not to mention weight will be at 180 most likely !!! God i wish i had your 600% commitment!!!! Envy moment!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I know i was gone for a long time but you are at 191 at 8%, did you bulk while i was gone?? Did i miss something?? Man you are my idol lol I still got a little bit to be at 8% and not to mention weight will be at 180 most likely !!! God i wish i had your 600% commitment!!!! Envy moment!!!


pap i appreciate it man! as u know my wife does the calipers and im not sure 8.55% is dead on accurate  :Smilie:  im prob closer to 10% but who knows.. i should go to the bod pod again i suppose its about time.. i think i will afgter this 4 weeks of cutting!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well day 4 with no carbs is upon me  :Smilie:  glad of it too! i have some cheerios in my car for pre workout! after that itll be capn crunch! followed by oatmeal pancakes.. or maybe ill have the pancakes first! oh glorious carbload day i love you! <3 <3 <3

weight 187lbs (depleted)

----------


## Papiriqui

> pap i appreciate it man! as u know my wife does the calipers and im not sure 8.55% is dead on accurate  im prob closer to 10% but who knows.. i should go to the bod pod again i suppose its about time.. i think i will afgter this 4 weeks of cutting!


No i am sure you are there i didnt mean it in a negative way is just that i am at 164lb lbm last bodpod and if i continue at that weight 8% for me would be 180 or a little lower so you can imagine when i see you at 8% but 191 how envious i feel lol  :Wink:  but hey whatever it takes right!!?

After im done cutting im going to hit that bulk like there is no tomorrow!!!! My strength is gone to shyt, obviously my size, but im hopeful that when i bulk i will gain the lbm back fast........Key word Hopeful  :Wink: 

Keep up the good work bud!!! Enter that competition, maybe after you i'll get inspired myself lol. Yeah right, that was a joke people  :Wink:

----------


## t-gunz

even though im carrying a serve injury. this has pumped me to set my diet up so i can least loose some bf% and do what little exercises i can do.

thanks for the great log. great inspiration and to be honest i was ready to throw in the towel. 

 :Smilie:

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## --->>405<<---

> No i am sure you are there i didnt mean it in a negative way is just that i am at 164lb lbm last bodpod and if i continue at that weight 8% for me would be 180 or a little lower so you can imagine when i see you at 8% but 191 how envious i feel lol  but hey whatever it takes right!!?
> 
> After im done cutting im going to hit that bulk like there is no tomorrow!!!! My strength is gone to shyt, obviously my size, but im hopeful that when i bulk i will gain the lbm back fast........Key word Hopeful 
> 
> Keep up the good work bud!!! Enter that competition, maybe after you i'll get inspired myself lol. Yeah right, that was a joke people


 :Smilie:  thx pap.. ill be going this yr to the comp but just as a spectator.. id need to be a lot leaner and bigger to feel good about entering  :Smilie:  maybe thatll change when i see the competition but i doubt it.. whatcha been cutting this whole time? where u at rite now?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> even though im carrying a serve injury. this has pumped me to set my diet up so i can least loose some bf% and do what little exercises i can do.
> 
> thanks for the great log. great inspiration and to be honest i was ready to throw in the towel.


glad to be here to help if i can! NEVER GIVE UP DUDE! i was almost ready to give up before i came on here and got with SteM.. im glad i didnt! injuries will heal.. just concentrate on getting better and do what u can not to let urself go to far now so u wont have as far to go to get back dude!

----------


## RaginCajun

hey 405, go check out my workout in my thread and let me know what ya think. 

looks like you are back on track i see. did i read, competition??? i would think that the posing would be the hardest thing to do!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> hey 405, go check out my workout in my thread and let me know what ya think. 
> 
> looks like you are back on track i see. did i read, competition??? i would think that the posing would be the hardest thing to do!


will do cajun.. :Smilie: 

yeh the gym i go to the guy who owns it suggested i get into a local competition but i am under no delusion that i look good enuff to be competitive  :Smilie:  i will go this year to chek it out and see if maybe with a bulking cycle followed by a cutting cycle over the next year if i may have a shot then..  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

alright guys i figd its been a while since i posted any pics so to keep myself honest and to show yall i havent been slacking too bad i figd id post some updated  :Smilie:  i took these this morning.. cold and depleted..

i think i mite start doing some ab work.. i havent really done any at all except a day here and there.. less than 10 times in 8months.. think it mite help? what yall think?

----------


## RaginCajun

> alright guys i figd its been a while since i posted any pics so to keep myself honest and to show yall i havent been slacking too bad i figd id post some updated  i took these this morning.. cold and depleted..
> 
> i think i mite start doing some ab work.. i havent really done any at all except a day here and there.. less than 10 times in 8months.. think it mite help? what yall think?


still lookin good 405. for ab work, there are tons of diff exercises you can do. i think people overtrain there abs and it mainly comes down to getting that layer of fat off. i remember you saying that you do run, that is one exercise that focuses on abs. look into the P90X ab ripper, its about 15 minutes of HELL!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> still lookin good 405. for ab work, there are tons of diff exercises you can do. i think people overtrain there abs and it mainly comes down to getting that layer of fat off. i remember you saying that you do run, that is one exercise that focuses on abs. look into the P90X ab ripper, its about 15 minutes of HELL!


yeh i actually have that! maybe ill give it a go sometime..

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## RaginCajun

ever go back and get your bloodwork done?

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh i think u missd the post.. as u know i went on a cruise and ate great (or like crap depending how u look at it  :Smilie:  LOL).. anyways after i got back i went to maintenance and stayd there til this week.. so i had 4 weeks (or so) of relatively normal ratios of food (40/40/20) pro/carb/fat.. well i never went and had bloodwork dun like doc suggested cuz i felt fine and thought it could be diet related.. so after being back 4 weeks (while at the same time being completely off arimidex ) it was time for new bloodwork.. i askd doc to test liver and kidneys too.. they did and came back "perfect for liver" and "slightly elevated for kidney but nothing to worry about" according to the nurse who calld me.. 

so basically i believe it was due to such high protein and no carbs for months at a time with the exception of a day here and there.. im a happy camper! 

thx for askn!

----------


## RaginCajun

that's great to hear 405!!!

----------


## Papiriqui

> thx pap.. ill be going this yr to the comp but just as a spectator.. id need to be a lot leaner and bigger to feel good about entering  maybe thatll change when i see the competition but i doubt it.. whatcha been cutting this whole time? where u at rite now?


I am right now at 189, still doing the same amount of macros and foods except for doing a fried rice on weekends which i started last weekend so i can properly do the diet on weekends, as you know that has been my downfall.

----------


## Papiriqui

> alright guys i figd its been a while since i posted any pics so to keep myself honest and to show yall i havent been slacking too bad i figd id post some updated  i took these this morning.. cold and depleted..
> 
> i think i mite start doing some ab work.. i havent really done any at all except a day here and there.. less than 10 times in 8months.. think it mite help? what yall think?


Niceeeeeeeee buddy!!! Have you tried doing abs with weights? Perhaps bring them out a bit more? You are looking good guy!!! Great job!!

----------


## Papiriqui

> yeh i think u missd the post.. as u know i went on a cruise and ate great (or like crap depending how u look at it  LOL).. anyways after i got back i went to maintenance and stayd there til this week.. so i had 4 weeks (or so) of relatively normal ratios of food (40/40/20) pro/carb/fat.. well i never went and had bloodwork dun like doc suggested cuz i felt fine and thought it could be diet related.. so after being back 4 weeks (while at the same time being completely *off arimidex*) it was time for new bloodwork.. i askd doc to test liver and kidneys too.. they did and came back "perfect for liver" and "slightly elevated for kidney but nothing to worry about" according to the nurse who calld me.. 
> 
> so basically i believe it was due to such high protein and no carbs for months at a time with the exception of a day here and there.. im a happy camper! 
> 
> thx for askn!


Why were you taking Arimidex ?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Why were you taking Arimidex?


i still am.. im on TRT remember? i suppose technically its anastrazole  :Smilie: 

weighted ab work.. yeh ive dun a little and considered it again.. usually im out of time and tired after my reg wkouts and i am too lazy to go to the gym 2 or 3 xtra times per week just to do abs  :Smilie:

----------


## jg2243

Hey 405 .. Did your doc put you on Arimidex ? I'm on TRT getting 250-350 of test c a week .. Yes I said 250-350 sometimes he over drawls .. He says he hates wasting the good stuff haha ..

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## --->>405<<---

> Hey 405 .. Did your doc put you on Arimidex ? I'm on TRT getting 250-350 of test c a week .. Yes I said 250-350 sometimes he over drawls .. He says he hates wasting the good stuff haha ..


250-350 is a big swing in dosage.. TRT is also not something to take lightly.. i would be leery of a doctor who does.. arimidex was prescribed to me by my doc after 2 months of no AI and an E2 (estradiol) test confirmed aromatization.. im still trying to iron out the proper dosage.. depending how long uve been on and how ur body works u may or may not need it at this point.. if u havent had bloodwork i suggest it.. 

i self-inject.. sounds like u go to the doc to get ur shots? 250mg per week is high.. 350mg per week is borderline low dosage cycle.. if what u say is true about ur docs attitude IMO u should find another doc.. over the long run (and as u know TRT is for life) dosage like that is pretty risky IMO.. chek out the hormone repla***ent therapy forum.. post ur stats and protocol in there for better advice  :Smilie:  good luck!

----------


## jg2243

I have been on TRT for a two months now .. My docs cool I'll just have to keep a eye on him .... I'll have to Get blood work done soon ..

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## --->>405<<---

a cool doc is ok but one who is negligent is not.. with TRT more is not better.. u only want to keep ur free test within a certain range.. mine stays @30.. slightly above high normal.. at 350mg per week ur prob well above that.. im on 160mg per week.. less than half what u get sometimes..

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## jg2243

405 your right neglect isn't cool .. I'll talk to when I go next week .. Half of it's my fault for
Not doing more research on my own .. which I will do now ...

----------


## --->>405<<---

carbload went well i think.. didnt go the full 1300carbs but a lot of them were from capn crunch! which i enjoyed thoroughly.. feeling leaner than last week  :Smilie:  bf chek tomorrow

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## --->>405<<---

> 405 your right neglect isn't cool .. I'll talk to when I go next week .. *Half of it's my fault* for
> Not doing more research on my own .. which I will do now ...


doing ur own research is great and i highly recommend it! however a doctor is a doctor and the responsibility for proper treatment is wat he gets paid for and why he went to med school! go to the TRT forum on this site and post a thread!

----------


## jg2243

Your 100% right !!! That's what he gets paid to do .. That's why I never questioned him with the dosage but I should have and I will next week

----------


## Papiriqui

You know i think your lbm might have gone up from the original amount you had when started due to the trt perhaps!!! Regardless you have made great progress!!!

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## --->>405<<---

> You know i think your lbm might have gone up from the original amount you had when started due to the trt perhaps!!! Regardless you have made great progress!!!


yeh ur rite pap i def believe TRT helped  :Smilie:  considering my free test was 7.3 before trt and now its 31! most definitely my man.. i was playing with a major handicap.. not anymore!

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## --->>405<<---

*(LAST WEEK)*: bf% came back today btw @8.55% at 191 lbs

(THIS WEEK): bf% came back at 7.94% at 190.4lbs a successful week! + NO CARDIO!

----------


## binsser

Thats a great result wish i could check mine no one does it here except the bullshit scales that dont ever read true!!!!

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## --->>405<<---

thx binsser  :Smilie:  get some calipers dude! get ur girlfriend or wife or watever to start doing it.. itll take a little time but shell get used to it and improve  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well another happy monday  :Smilie: 

moving carb cycle schedule up one day.. tuesdays will now be day 1.. it works better for me that way..

----------


## Papiriqui

> *(LAST WEEK)*: bf% came back today btw @8.55% at 191 lbs
> 
> (THIS WEEK): bf% came back at 7.94% at 190.4lbs a successful week! + NO CARDIO!


All i can say is FANTASTIC!!!!

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## --->>405<<---

^^  :Smilie:  yeh thx pap im hoping for the same result this week.. i may even do some cardio this go around.. although i have enjoyed a month free of cardio!

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## RaginCajun

good work with no cardio.

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## --->>405<<---

well since my bf is now where it was pre cruise i said "screw it" on continuing the cut at least for this week.. im ok with where im at bf % wise.. just running maintenance again.. ive gotten a bit lazy i suppose.. id like to add a bit of size to my chest and traps..

looking at my diet its costing me @250$ per week just to feed myself! wow! and im not even bulking..

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## jg2243

Wow 250 a week that's crazy !!! In about 75 a week

----------


## RaginCajun

> well since my bf is now where it was pre cruise i said "screw it" on continuing the cut at least for this week.. im ok with where im at bf % wise.. just running maintenance again.. ive gotten a bit lazy i suppose.. id like to add a bit of size to my chest and traps..
> 
> looking at my diet its costing me @250$ per week just to feed myself! wow! and im not even bulking..



like to see how this maintenance goes. 250/week, shazaam!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Wow 250 a week that's crazy !!! In about 75 a week


if u live in the states i need to know where u grocery shop! LOL???

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## --->>405<<---

> like to see how this maintenance goes. 250/week, shazaam!


me 2 cajun.. i suppose i need to be more precise.. im counting macros but kind of roughly counting them..  :Smilie:

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## Papiriqui

$250 a week???? Holy mother of gooooooood!!!!! 40lbs of chicken breast cost me $60 and that will last me for several weeks!! Sweet potato, lentils, ground beef and ezekiel bread for a week is around $10 so all in all i spend a week about $30 on foods, not counting supps.....

If i had to spend that much money on food i would probably not diet lol

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## --->>405<<---

where u doin ur shopping ????? im all ears.. my wife goes to wal mart and kroger.. shoot ground beef is like $6 per lb and i eat 7lbs per week.. thats $42 rite there.. eggs are $3.59 per 18pack and i go thru 7 18packs per week.. thats @$25 so ur talkn $67 for eggs and ground beef.. then theres cottage cheese .. 25bucks per week.. almost at 100 already for 3 things..

----------


## Papiriqui

WoW and i thought in Miami life was expensiveeeee. Ground beef here is a dollar and some change per lb, i dont eat that much beef yet but still a lot cheaper here no to mention that i will buy bulk this week for even cheaper price. Egg whites i get them from egg white international, i just ordered 3 gallons for $100 but that will last me for a few months since i only eat 4 egg whites a day. Chicken is 15 dollars per 10lb bag, that will last me 1 week exactly. Ezekiel bread is 3.50 or 4 depending if they have a sale. Lentils are like 2 dollars and change and that will last me for 5 days. Sweet potato i buy so little that i dont even know but i spend less than 5 bucks for more than a weeks worth.

I buy the chicken and this weekend the ground beef at Martinez Distributor, is a meat place that distributes to restaurants but sells to the public as well, i've been buying from them for the past 10 years and the rest i buy either Publix Supermarket or Winn Dixie Supermarket.

Buddy i feel for you because that is expensive to maintain!!! Question though, why do you eat a pound of ground beef a day?? Just curious? I eat 4oz, i guess you eat most of your protein from ground beef??

If i knew a cheap and fast way to send you this stuff i would in a heart beat!!!

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## --->>405<<---

i know u would pap  :Smilie:  i eat 96/4 fat free.. i have it twice per day at 8oz per serving.. thats not all the meat i eat either.. usually have 2x 8oz chikn breast as well.. so thats 2lbs of meat per day plus 14eggwhites minimum.. and a tub of cottage cheese (or so).. plus oats, plus veggies which rnt cheap either.. then i use reduced sugar ketchup and sugar free syrup, hot sauce, spices.. it adds up  :Smilie:  fortunately i get paid well but would like to cut cost if possible..

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## gbrice75

Been a while since i've stopped by.... just wanted to say what's up... how's it going buddy?

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## Papiriqui

> i know u would pap  i eat 96/4 fat free.. i have it twice per day at 8oz per serving.. thats not all the meat i eat either.. usually have 2x 8oz chikn breast as well.. so thats 2lbs of meat per day plus 14eggwhites minimum.. and a tub of cottage cheese (or so).. plus oats, plus veggies which rnt cheap either.. then i use reduced sugar ketchup and sugar free syrup, hot sauce, spices.. it adds up  fortunately i get paid well but would like to *cut cost* if possible..


Who wouldn't want to. I hope you find a place at least for the protein where you can save a few bucks!!! I don't use much spices or sauces because the only thing that needs spice is chicken, the beef patty i just add salt to it and it tastes fantastic!! The ground beef i find here is 93/7 which is the leanest i've seen. Good luck and i hope you find a better place. Do you have Costco, Bj's, Sam's Club over there?? Have you tried it? Might be a bit cheaper, not so sure since i haven't found the need to purchase those things there...

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## --->>405<<---

> Been a while since i've stopped by.... just wanted to say what's up... how's it going buddy?


hey GB thx for stopping in  :Smilie:  its going well.. not sure what to do at this point.. running maintenance rite now.. although i must say i weighed myself this am and im up to 193lbs and my bf is back where it was per vacation when i weighed 186lbs.. so thats @5-7lbs difference.. maybe my maintenance is actually lower than what ive been eating and ive done some lean bulking without intending to LOL.. wouldnt that be a trip!

also i remember when i started UD2.0 it is stated in the book u can also use the diet for a lean bulk.. i must admit when not dieting (cutting) i dont pay extremely close attention to cals and macros.. kind of ballpark them.. and have gotten into a habit of getting a handful here and there of multigrain cheerios.. also ive been eating slimmer me's pancakes 2-3times per day.. thats 2-3 entire recipes per day.. ive actually considered using them for 3 or so meals per day because from a macronutrient standpoint they are split very well IMO.. 

roughly: 589cals
56g pro
67g carbs
11g fat

38%pro/45%carb/16%fat

and they taste great!  :Smilie:

----------


## RaginCajun

yes, absolutely love the pancakes. i just bought some banana nut protein powder specifically for making pancakes. i also like to top them with some strawberrier or blueberries, cottage cheese, either sugar-free maple syrup or sugar-free chocalate syrup (CRACK!), and some pecans. heaven!

----------


## --->>405<<---

sugar free choc syrup huh cajun? will have to chk that out.. also trying to come up with a lean bulk plan i think.. am considering using the UD2.0 or maybe the idea of it with bulking in mind.. thinking i mite run 50%maintenance 3.5 days have the refeed and then run maybe 3500cals the other 2days to see how i fare.. mite even bump up to 4000 the other 2 days.. depending how i do with 3500.. unsure of the results but think itd be a fun experiment.. so basically my diet would look like this:

day1: 1400cals
day2: 1400cals
day3: 1400cals
day4: (am) 1000cals (pm)start carb load @300g carbs plus 60g protein (about 2500cals total)
day5: 5000cals 
day6: 3500cals
day7: 3500cals

would total @18,700cals for the week which is 2671cals per day avg.. the only other thing would be workout structure.. prob follow ud2 workout structure with depletion day 1,2 and then med weight day 4(pm), heavy low rep day 6.. all total body and i mite try to incorporate some of the HST i read about.. totally experimental  :Smilie:  i have no idea what would happen! LOL which makes it fun! 

based on avg daily cals looks like weekly id be around maintenance.. what u guys think?

----------


## RaginCajun

check out/google Walden Farms, they have sugar-free everything!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> check out/google Walden Farms, they have sugar-free everything!


cool! goin there now  :Smilie:  thx!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well guys my wife is out of town til wed nite and ive been getting up at 0500 to cook my food for the day (which she usually does).. needless to say ill be glad when she gets home! in any event im using this week to plan my next attempt which will be the diet i posted earlier.. starting next monday..

----------


## RaginCajun

> well guys my wife is out of town til wed nite and ive been getting up at 0500 to cook my food for the day (which she usually does).. needless to say ill be glad when she gets home! in any event im using this week to plan my next attempt which will be the diet i posted earlier.. starting next monday..



i think i may need one of these, 'wife' things!

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL yeh theyre pretty good!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well ive been eating around 3000-3200cals per day now for a couple weeks and i think i may have gained a little muscle.. wanted ur opinion SteM specifically.. took this pic yesterday and thought i may have.. also a little fat as well but not too bad.. weight rite now 193lbs..

----------


## RaginCajun

i think that you look more massive in the new pic. your arms and shoulders look bigger/fuller.

----------


## milky01623

> well ive been eating around 3000-3200cals per day now for a couple weeks and i think i may have gained a little muscle.. wanted ur opinion SteM specifically.. took this pic yesterday and thought i may have.. also a little fat as well but not too bad.. weight rite now 193lbs..


Dude you look awesome........

----------


## baseline_9

Lookin good bud

----------


## Back In Black

A little less lean but bigger, fuller and better. I think you should continue in all honesty, re-assess every 2 weeks and adjust cals/macro's accordingly. What's your split, roughly?

You are ready for this lean bulk, man!

Did you make up that bolognese?

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx for the replies guys!  :Smilie:  yeh stem i actually havent intended on bulking.. just since i got home from the cruise havent "felt" like doing cardio.. so i havent done any LOL... and i also have "felt" like eating so i have been  :Smilie:  diet isnt really planned or intentional as of yet.. but i have counted cals and macros.. they range from:

3079cals
339g pro
278g carbs
66g fat
43%P 38%C 18%F

to

3489cals
374g pro
333g carbs
72g fat

44%P 36%C 19%F

like i said i have been a little lax on my diet in the sense ill have a handful of peanut butter capn crunch here and there.. mainly know what to eat and have added macros roughly in my head.. above is what it comes down to.. (other than the capn crunch LOL).. am thiinking if i stay on of tightening it up a bit and tryin to add some cardio maybe 2 or 3 days per week.. i think on the previous page i posted my plan.. 

basically ud2.0 bulk.. diet 1/2 week; bulk 1/2 week.. thought itd be interesting.. i must say i am enjoying these pancakes.. i eat 2 or 3 whole servings per day plus 16oz beef and 16oz chikn breast plus 1cup brn rice and veggies (squash, spinach).. and thats it! eating is nice! esp this amt carbs daily.. i usually have pancakes rite before bed too  :Smilie:  LOL.. theyre 500cals, 60(ish) pro, 60(ish) carb, 10 fat..

----------


## Back In Black

Maybe add some cardio even if just for heart health/fitness if not fat loss.

Agreed, eating is good. Pancakes are good (mine are 74c/54p/8f). Lots of carbs are good too. I like my 4x per day meal plan. I fit 300g carbs into those 4 meals.

It's funny, I look at your pics an see you bigger, fuller an almost as lean and think you look better. I look at myself bigger, fuller and not as lean and think I look sh1t. But then, my leanness has has gone way more than yours!

Haven't read the U.D.2 fully, I must get round to it.

----------


## JohnnnyBlazzze

Looking solid 405, You look fuller and bigger.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Maybe add some cardio even if just for heart health/fitness if not fat loss.
> 
> Agreed, eating is good. Pancakes are good (mine are 74c/54p/8f). Lots of carbs are good too. I like my 4x per day meal plan. I fit 300g carbs into those 4 meals.
> 
> It's funny, I look at your pics an see you bigger, fuller an almost as lean and think you look better. I look at myself bigger, fuller and not as lean and think I look sh1t. But then, my leanness has has gone way more than yours!
> 
> *Haven't read the U.D.2 fully, I must get round to it.*


1. thought u were gonna post some pics? 
2. ur ur own worst critic is wat a smart guy once told me  :Wink: 
3. basic premise for ud2 bulk (for myself):
day1: 1400cals (fibrous only carb)
day2: 1400cals (fibrous only carb)
day3: 1400cals (fibrous only carb)
day4: 2500cals (am fibrous carb/pm carb load)
day5: 5000cals (carb load)
day6: 3500cals (std bulk split)
day7: 3500cals (std bulk split)

days 6 & 7 may be increased depending how i go  :Smilie: 

only thing left to figure out is workout split.. days 1 & 2 total body depletion.. mite follow ud2 workout schedule with total body 4 days.. may do day 4:chest, back, arms (last) then day 6: legs, shoulders.. cardio days 2,3,4.. what u think?

----------


## GirlyGymRat

405...another member was giving you cudos in a different thread about your transformation in such a short time? any truth to this???

ur muscles seem fuller esp shoulders; u are cut. (i am not trolling, just giving my observation to your current avy)

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 405...another member was giving you cudos in a different thread about *your transformation in such a short time?* any truth to this???
> 
> ur muscles seem fuller esp shoulders; u are cut. (i am not trolling, just giving my observation to your current avy)


GGR thx for stoppn by  :Smilie:  to see the diff go to page 7 of this thread and theres a beginning pic.. then u can decide for urself! started cut @ oct 1, 2011.. was pretty much dun with it at the end of march 2012..

id like to note ur question does confuse me slightly cuz uve been chekn in here since early on  :Smilie:  (maybe theres so many threads u go to u forgot?)

----------


## ghettoboyd

hey bro nice thread you have going here...i cant believe i have never commented as i have check it out several times...just wanted to say nice frickin job bro you look fantastic and look forward to your future progress...good luck...

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx ghetto  :Smilie:

----------


## Papiriqui

Nice one bro!!! Can't wait to see results when you put your foot forward!!!

EDIT: foot forward meaning a 100% on point bulk, sorry had a cuban moment there for a second lol

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> GGR thx for stoppn by  to see the diff go to page 7 of this thread and theres a beginning pic.. then u can decide for urself! started cut @ oct 1, 2011.. was pretty much dun with it at the end of march 2012..
> 
> id like to note ur question does confuse me slightly cuz uve been chekn in here since early on  (maybe theres so many threads u go to u forgot?)


I didn't see any beginning pics on page 7 and it's not been the best last year for me especially since you started in Oct and lots of changes in my life now and the 2 jobs so it has been crazy. ......I am just been exhausted lately : (

re: to other thread...you were mentioned as inspiration in that thread....sorry if confused you

----------


## --->>405<<---

beginning pic  :Smilie:  there u go  :Smilie:

----------


## GirlyGymRat

^^^ I am officially confused. Did you photo shop your avy? your current pics? Doesn't look like the same person. Dang! no wonder you were mentioned in another thread!

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^^LOL.. Dont even know how to use photoshop  :Smilie: 

Progress pics documented throughout this thread.. I think about 50..

A good example of wat diet + proper test levels will do.. In orig pic i workd out about the same as i do currently.. Maybe a lil harder! Looking like orig pic i could run 6:35 mile.. Goes to show the power of proper diet

----------


## t-gunz

fuk those pics are just bullshit. 
lol
i cant wait to heal up and get cracken again. very motivational

----------


## AXx

That's awesome bro!!! That gives me hope!!! I was showing your pics to some guys at the FD and they were shocked. Congrats man. 

I have a journey I have started and I don't plan on stopping. Again kudos to you bro!!!

----------


## Papiriqui

405 i had a question for you regarding TRT, just today i started looking at the lab results from last July and this saturday i am doing the routine lab work for this year. What number was your total test when you noticed it was low? If i am not mistaken from what i gather from my results from a year ago my total is at 323 which i believe is very low, still in range but low. Free was not tested or at least is not shown in the results. The one i am taking this saturday i also do not see anything about free test in there so im calling the dr tomorrow to see if i can get a new paper which includes free test.

Tomorrow at work i'll be reading on the threads regarding that issue again since i just spent a few hrs doing so, but i concentrate better doing work hrs when i am not tired. I just became my worst nightmare and i am worrying lol. Not to mention the more i read regarding anything and nothing in particular in this forum the more i learn and the more i see i dont know shyt lol. This forum has been my greatest discovery  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> fuk those pics are just bullshit. 
> lol
> i cant wait to heal up and get cracken again. very motivational


LOL.. thx tgunz!




> That's awesome bro!!! That gives me hope!!! I was showing your pics to some guys at the FD and they were shocked. Congrats man. 
> 
> I have a journey I have started and I don't plan on stopping. Again kudos to you bro!!!


thx dude! u can do it and we are here to help! any questions u have  :Smilie: 




> 405 i had a question for you regarding TRT, just today i started looking at the lab results from last July and this saturday i am doing the routine lab work for this year. What number was your total test when you noticed it was low? If i am not mistaken from what i gather from my results from a year ago *my total is at 323* which i believe is very low, still in range but low. *Free was not tested* or at least is not shown in the results. The one i am taking this saturday i also do not see anything about free test in there so im calling the dr tomorrow to see if i can get a new paper which includes free test.
> 
> Tomorrow at work i'll be reading on the threads regarding that issue again since i just spent a few hrs doing so, but i concentrate better doing work hrs when i am not tired. *I just became my worst nightmare and i am worrying* lol. Not to mention the more i read regarding anything and nothing in particular in this forum the more i learn and the more i see i dont know shyt lol. This forum has been my greatest discovery


hey pap! if that be the case man get ready for ur life to change for the better dude! its nothing to worry about man.. if ur test is low just get over it and get it fixed! the tuffest challenge u will have is finding a good doc.. my doc is a good one.. u can always come to savannah ga if u have to.. he does all his bloodwork and communication via the inyernet and telephone.. i only have to see him physically 1 time per yr.. 

free test is by far the most important thing.. total test can be misleading.. get ur free test dun for sure.. its the only thing u wanna go by for test levels! if u use labcorps the total test "normal range" used to be 348-1197 (if memory serves) mine was 349.. 

free test "normal" is @ 8.7 - 25.6(ish).. mine was 7.3... now it stays around 31.. ill be looking for ur results.. *get them to get a baseline E2 also before u start ur TRT* if thats what happens! u will want to know where u are naturally for comparison! keep me posted dude.. if ur low i promise when all is said and dun u will be happier once u get it corrected..

----------


## Papiriqui

> hey pap! if that be the case man get ready for ur life to change for the better dude! its nothing to worry about man.. if ur test is low just get over it and get it fixed! the tuffest challenge u will have is finding a good doc.. my doc is a good one.. u can always come to savannah ga if u have to.. he does all his bloodwork and communication via the inyernet and telephone.. i only have to see him physically 1 time per yr.. 
> 
> free test is by far the most important thing.. total test can be misleading.. get ur free test dun for sure.. its the only thing u wanna go by for test levels! if u use labcorps the total test "normal range" used to be 348-1197 (if memory serves) mine was 349.. 
> 
> free test "normal" is @ 8.7 - 25.6(ish).. mine was 7.3... now it stays around 31.. ill be looking for ur results.. *get them to get a baseline E2 also before u start ur TRT* if thats what happens! u will want to know where u are naturally for comparison! keep me posted dude.. if ur low i promise when all is said and dun u will be happier once u get it corrected..


Yeah thanks man!! I am not so much worried in a negative way as i am that now i have to research in relation to this stuff, know my stuff before i hit the dr with it as well as most likely find one that does TRT and is somewhat knowledgeable. At the end if thats what i have to do is what i have to do, not to mention that everything gets better so i am all up for it. This shows that you shouldnt do AAS when young!!! I guess i learned the hard way huh? LOL Anyways i'll definitely call the dr in a bit to get the free test tested in the paper he gave me to take to the lab because i was looking for it but i can find a line that says free test but we'll see.

I'll keep you posted of results and stuff and what i do from there!! Thanks for the support again bud!! Happy Friday and good weekend  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

*dont forget e2!!! Estradiol*

i will email my doc if u like (cuz i think he came from fla) and see if i can get a name for u..?? Ur miami rite?

----------


## Papiriqui

Yeah Miami, thanks man!! I Really appreciate that. Still waiting for a return phone call from my doc, after reading here in the HRT section i added Estradiol, DHEA, LH, Prolactin, PSA, T3 and T4 both free and totals. Im waiting for him because i dont see a box for free test not to mention i added this myself so i want to consult with him before i go to the lab!!

Also i am going to a compounding pharmacy in a bit to see if they have a doc they'd recommend that uses or prescribes test, hcg , and AIs. Trying to get everything i can in advance of the results and if im safe then good if not im ready  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ all good ideas!

did legs/tris today.. getting stronger  :Smilie:  did 385 x 8 on squats today.. a record for me.. could prob get 405 or more.. also did 265 x 8 on close grip bench.. another record.. apparently these 48 oatmeal pancakes per day are paying off! thats rite 48  :Smilie:  also i woke up looking leaner today as well!

----------


## bikeral

Dude always like seeing your before/after pics. Gets me motivated to keep at it.

----------


## --->>405<<---

pretty good weekend.. off sat and sunday.. worked last nite.. did a 4mile mud run with my wife yesterday am.. that was fun.. feeln lazy today.. didnt get off til 0700 this am.. slept 3 hrs and then cut grass.. been on couch since 1600.. will continue til bed.. 

ps.. tiger woods just cant seem to put it together...

----------


## --->>405<<---

improvement update on slims pancakes: add 1 cup frozen blueberries! man o man  :Smilie:

----------


## Papiriqui

> improvement update on slims pancakes: add 1 cup frozen blueberries! man o man


hahahaha

----------


## --->>405<<---

one of these days im gonna muster up the motivation to start doing cardio again.. gaining some unwanted fat due to laziness and slackness in tracking cals and macros along with some poor food choices.. nothing major but more than id like.. looks like im gonna have to cut again.. ive said this previously but the time is drawing close.. have some little love handles popping up and i cant have it! after that 8months of cutting its been nice eating and doing no cardio.. obviously it has proven to be a costly mistake..

i have gained some strength but that not as important to me as how much fat im carrying.. up to 194lbs..

----------


## bikeral

> one of these days im gonna muster up the motivation to start doing cardio again.. gaining some unwanted fat due to laziness and slackness in tracking cals and macros along with some poor food choices.. nothing major but more than id like.. looks like im gonna have to cut again.. ive said this previously but the time is drawing close.. have some little love handles popping up and i cant have it! after that 8months of cutting its been nice eating and doing no cardio.. obviously it has proven to be a costly mistake..
> 
> i have gained some strength but that not as important to me as how much fat im carrying.. up to 194lbs..


You have the recipe for success now JUST DO IT! :AaGreen22:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> You have the recipe for success now JUST DO IT!


 :Smilie:  thx al! ur rite..

----------


## Papiriqui

> one of these days im gonna muster up the motivation to start doing cardio again.. gaining some unwanted fat due to laziness and slackness in tracking cals and macros along with some poor food choices.. nothing major but more than id like.. looks like im gonna have to cut again.. ive said this previously but the time is drawing close.. have some little love handles popping up and i cant have it! after that 8months of cutting its been nice eating and doing no cardio.. obviously it has proven to be a costly mistake..
> 
> i have gained some strength but that not as important to me as how much fat im carrying.. up to 194lbs..


Bro cut yourself some slack!!! You deserve some half way diet, at least you know what you are doing wrong and i know you wont let it get out of hand. So dont worry and whenever you feel you need to get back on the horse just do it, in the mean time enjoy it  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

:Smilie:  thx pap!

----------


## havehotasianwife

Havent been here for awhile 405. anyways,,heres my progress pic

----------


## --->>405<<---

asian whats up bro? hows it been going man? whats ur stats? cant tell a lot from pic..

----------


## havehotasianwife

I still have my trouble areas like my stomach/love handle area.. but i know that what takes years to put on doesnt come off in days. my LBM has went up, my actual weight (not lbm) is 181 right now and last time we talked i think i was at 167. and today, i noticed my first inner thigh vein showing as well as shins

----------


## --->>405<<---

good deal dude.. good to see u man  :Smilie:

----------


## bikeral

How's that cardio working or ya?  :Welcome:

----------


## Papiriqui

> How's that cardio working or ya?


I think Cardio was laid off due to the economy lol

----------


## bikeral

> I think Cardio was laid off due to the economy lol


Thats funny Pap. I keep pushing cause I know it's hard to get the train moving again once it stops at the station for too long  :LOL:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Cardio. NExt week al

----------


## bikeral

Good deal bro. I'll be here.

----------


## --->>405<<---

lucky for me i have the tour de france coming up in 9days! reason being i dvr record it and watch it while doing fasted elliptical.. all my footage from last yr is erased when i got the new HDTV and had to get a HD DVR..  :Frown:  i have nothing to watch rite now.... i NEED it! LOL

----------


## t-gunz

hey 405 hows things brother? sorry havent been on here checking ur log out. back wasnt going well went downhill pretty bad. but anyways back again

and i start my diet. so ill be using ur log and gbrice log to keep motivation  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

tgunz whats up bro?  :Smilie:  things r good.. not a lot to post on my side right now. just plugging along eating @3000-3500cals not really counting just keeping an idea in my head. up to 194lbs and stronger. plan on thrown in some cardio startn monday to maybe bring bf down a touch. have some days where i feel fat and some days when i dont. the days i do i decide to cut and start cardio, the days i dont i decide to just keep rolling like i am LOL. 

i wouldnt mind being a little bigger but im pretty ok with how i am .. its kind of confusing LOL ive always had fat on me and needed to cut. its gone now and i dont really know what to do  :Smilie:  i tell u im enjoying eating 3500cals everyday i can tell u that. just finished 18 blueberry pancakes (which i have for breakfast everyday). 

last nite i came up with a concoction for my cottage cheese: 300g cott cheese, big scoop of sugar free strawberry preserves stirred in, 1 whole sliced banana mixed in. man that was good!

----------


## Back In Black

18 pancakes? How big/small are they? I only get 9 out of my mix that's about 700 cals!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 18 pancakes? How big/small are they? I only get 9 out of my mix that's about 700 cals!


i suppose if u get 9 and i get 18 theyre 1/2 the size u make urs  :Wink:  have u tried them with blueberries yet? if not u need to!

----------


## Back In Black

Not yet mate, frozen blended in are better than fresh? Yours must be real small man my macros are c/p/f 83/56/8.

----------


## --->>405<<---

havent had fresh ( i need to curb my $spending on diet) so i take frozen 140g and thaw in microwave for 2mins and then stir into mix after the mix has been completed in food processor. the blueberries cookd in make them absolutely fantastic! ill never go back to them w/o blueberries now unless i go on a hard cut. 

about 2 bites per pancake (i like em smaller i eat em in car usually at work as i do most of my food. i work in either my car or a company vehicle so 5meals per day usually r dun behind the wheel)

exact macros: (inluding 140g blueberries)
658cals
56g pro
84g carbs
12g fat

if u havent cookd them into urs i suggest trying it next time u make em  :Smilie:  glad to see u stop by BTW. dont get a lot of interaction with my buddy  :Wink:

----------


## Back In Black

I'll try it with fresh on Tuesday I think.

I stopped visiting as much when you started looking better than me :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^LOL.. thats funny.. however i doubt it..

----------


## t-gunz

mmmmmp pancakes.

ive limited my carbs greatly so no pankcakes for me  :Frown:

----------


## Back In Black

Tried them blueberries. Don't rate them! Will continue to eat my fruit separately. Have you ever tried toasting your cold pancakes an then just lightly buttering them?

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^^ think the frozen would be better.. Sweeter than fresh..

let me be more specific: eat them with frozen blueberries and make sure u use sugar free pancake syrup! if u dont like em then theres something wrong with u!  :Wink:

----------


## Back In Black

Ah you see, I used no syrup!!!!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

ding ding ding ding ding!!!!! theres ur prob my man !!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

on a difft note i read the manx missile is on a new team and will not be trying to win as many stages this year due to olympics and has been focusing on climbing..?? i hope after this yr he comes back next yr in the same format as previous years...

----------


## --->>405<<---

supposed to start cardio in the am and i woke up feeling nausea this am. had to take sick wife to the ER 3days ago. wonder if im getn wat she had. blah!

----------


## --->>405<<---

al its not lookn good for tomorrow am man. im sitting here still with a sick stomach.. ugh..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well im doing good to even be at work today. last nite sucked. weak and tired and down 4lbs in 24 hrs ... man ill be glad when this is over.

----------


## Back In Black

Diagnosis - cardio allergy :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL ^^ funny.. It amazes me how much water can accumulate in the intestines in such a short pd of time..

----------


## Back In Black

Bet you look a little flat too?! Get well soon buddy.

----------


## --->>405<<---

actually was chekn abs out in mirror a few mins ago and theyre showing up fairly well! been doing ab work 3x per week

havent eaten at all since yesterday..

----------


## bikeral

> al its not lookn good for tomorrow am man. im sitting here still with a sick stomach.. ugh..


No worries bro I'm sure you will get back at it. I missed AM cardio as well.

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^that i will al  :Smilie:  well felln about 90% today. will be doing chest/bis at lunch.. no cardio as of yet..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well did chest/bis today and it went very well considering yesterday i had nausea and every wonderful thing that goes along with it!

record on bench: 275 x 7  :Smilie:  happy bout that. at my strongest previously i could do 275 x 5 reps and i weighed 226 then.. today i weighed 197..

also i paused at the bottom of the rep about 1" from my chest as opposed to bouncing the bar like i used to do..

----------


## Papiriqui

405 i know it took me a while but here is a picture i took today before taking a shower at the gym. Swing by when you can!!

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...6#.T-2kEo6BA1A

----------


## --->>405<<---

well just for kicks and giggles i had wife chek bf% today.

current stats this am: 193lbs 8.67%bf 176.27lbs LBM (up from 170lbs LBM in 8weeks)

i must say i "feel" fatter than that  :Smilie: 

caliper mm measurements:
chest: 4
scap: 10.5
tri: 5
bi: 3
thigh: 7
back: 13
supraillac: 5
stomach: 9.5
midax: 8
calf: 5

----------


## Papiriqui

> well just for kicks and giggles i had wife chek bf% today.
> 
> current stats this am: 193lbs 8.67%bf 176.27lbs LBM (up from 170lbs LBM in 8weeks)
> 
> i must say i "feel" fatter than that 
> 
> caliper mm measurements:
> chest: 4
> scap: 10.5
> ...


Niceeeeeeeeeeeeeee  :Wink:

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> well im doing good to even be at work today. last nite sucked. weak and tired and down 4lbs in 24 hrs ... man ill be glad when this is over.





> Diagnosis - cardio allergy


LMBO

hope u both doing well with your allergies  :Big Grin:

----------


## bikeral

> well just for kicks and giggles i had wife chek bf% today.
> 
> current stats this am: 193lbs 8.67%bf 176.27lbs LBM (up from 170lbs LBM in 8weeks)
> 
> i must say i "feel" fatter than that 
> 
> caliper mm measurements:
> chest: 4
> scap: 10.5
> ...


With results like that I see why you are in no rush to do cardio.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> LMBO
> 
> hope u both doing well with your allergies


 :Smilie:  thx GGR im doing better now although i still have yet to do cardio. planning on monday. 




> With results like that I see why you are in no rush to do cardio.


it does make it difficult al! i was laying in bed this am and pretended i had to get up and do cardio to see how i felt about it and i wasnt happy! LOL one thing is for sure. monday am will tell the tale. id like to do it for health reasons and also i "feel" like im doin g more when i do cardio. maybe cuz i am!  :Wink:

----------


## jpowell

hey bro,

was wondering how long you think time wise it wod take to get from 19-20% to 10%,
as I've layed out a road map--and goal timeframe--by sept 1 I'm hoping to be close maybe 14%?

sound realistic?

also, are you familiar with p90x? 
i was wondering if doing their cardio dvd in the morn for fasted cardio wod suffice?

----------


## Back In Black

405 where in England did you say your mum was from?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> hey bro,
> 
> was wondering how long you think time wise it wod take to get from 19-20% to 10%,
> as I've layed out a road map--and goal timeframe--by sept 1 I'm hoping to be close maybe 14%?
> 
> sound realistic? *sept 1 is 9weeks from now. to get from 20% to 14% u have to lose 6%bf. thats @0.6666667% per week. a bit ambitious IMO. u may be able to drop .5% per week (on a good week IMO) which would be @4.5% in 9 weeks. thatd put u @ 15.5% if ur startn at 20%. id say thats fairly close "guesstimate".* 
> 
> also, are you familiar with p90x? 
> i was wondering if doing their cardio dvd in the morn for fasted cardio wod suffice?


*p90x cardio x is definitely cardio and tuff cardio! ive done it many times. personally i dont think ud have to work that hard. for am fasted i love the elliptical. not a lot of impact and not very tuff and easy to stick to IMO. the harder it is to perform the harder its gonna be to stick to long term.*

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 405 where in England did you say your mum was from?


sussex  :Smilie:

----------


## jpowell

Ok thas realistic. I realize it leves abso no room for error and i must remained disciplined. Itl proli b hard, but ino itl b worth evry single day.

Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well i had a great cheat meal:
Baby back ribs
Potato cubes brushed with evoo and spices and baked
Corn on the cob
Mint choc chip ice cream
Handfull dark choc chips 75%cacao

Yum  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

dang my thread almost made it to page 2! cant let that happen.. im thinking cut startn monday... i know ive said it before but i mean it this time dang it!  :Wink:

----------


## bikeral

I thought I was gonna have to give you a bump.

----------


## RaginCajun

when you cut, will you be going back to 60/20/20 macro split?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> when you cut, will you be going back to 60/20/20 macro split?


Nope. Carb cycle. IMO strait low carb is a good beginning diet for someone with higher bf%. carb cycle is the way to go now. No carbs + Severe deficit, carb load (relief), moderate deficit, repeat...

----------


## RaginCajun

> Nope. Carb cycle. IMO strait low carb is a good beginning diet for someone with higher bf%. carb cycle is the way to go now. No carbs + Severe deficit, carb load (relief), moderate deficit, repeat...



gotcha. i think i may try the 60/20/20 split in this cut i am about to do. it may keep me more disciplined!

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^^ good luck cajun!

Well fellas im startn an 8 week cut monday. I suppose ill post a pic or 2 of myself tomorrow to show a starting point. Ive gained some strength and maybe a little size. I dont suppose u could call wat ive been doing a bulk. In all honesty its been me being lazy in every sense of the word after my 8 month cut. 

No cardio in 2 months and 3000 or so cals per day. After this 8 weeks i suppose ill run maintenance and be more deliberate than i have been. After 8 months of strict cutting followed by a week cruise where i ate everything i wanted it has been a stagnate period. Time to get back to business!  :Smilie:

----------


## jpowell

We can cut together! I started mine on last sunday, the 1st. I only plan on doing 8 wks, evaulate n then rejump back on it. 
As im having the hardest time understanding you can gain an burn at the same time, ive put myself in a very very bad position. Uno, everybody wants to b the big guy. 
My goal rite now is on losing this fat, estimated arnd 50 lbs or so if my math is rite. 
Ino ill lose strength and mass. Hell not evn sure if i wana go for another 50 lbs lol. 
But my goal is to drop as much fat, i wana c ny % numbers go down. 

Good luck!

Sent from my iPhone using Forum

----------


## Papiriqui

Dropping by 405....Looking fwd to those pics and good luck with the cut!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

alright guys.. 45mins am fasted cardio done.. cut has begun  :Smilie:

----------


## bikeral

Oh yea, play time is over. Good work bro.

----------


## Papiriqui

Damn cardio!!!? A star fell off the sky LOL. Nice going bud!! Happy Cutting!!

On another note, i need your insight on some carb cycling, just a little brief overview or direct me where i can soak some info regarding the subject. I've been stuck on 188-190 for the past month, some of it my fault no lie but this weekend was on point except for saturday a little ice cream, i mean 2 scoops, sunday a piece of cake thats it, both days with 2+ hrs of racquetball. Saturday i was at 188 and today i was at 190. I need to see 187-186 LOL so if by the end of the week i dont see the magic number 186-185 i will start carb cycle next week to give the body a kick start, but i need your help on this one since i have no idea about carb cycling.....

----------


## RaginCajun

glad to see we are all back at it! giddy up!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Damn cardio!!!? A star fell off the sky LOL. Nice going bud!! Happy Cutting!!
> 
> On another note, i need your insight on some carb cycling, just a little brief overview or direct me where i can soak some info regarding the subject. I've been stuck on 188-190 for the past month, some of it my fault no lie but this weekend was on point except for saturday a little ice cream, i mean 2 scoops, sunday a piece of cake thats it, both days with 2+ hrs of racquetball. Saturday i was at 188 and today i was at 190. I need to see 187-186 LOL so if by the end of the week i dont see the magic number 186-185 i will start carb cycle next week to give the body a kick start, but i need your help on this one since i have no idea about carb cycling.....


personally IMO pap even if u make it to 185 id switch to carb cycle dude. its difft than what uve been doing and very effective. the change in approach may indeed get u going at a better pace than u currently are at. the body likes to get into ruts. carb cycling will get u out of a rut i guarantee u! ill bump the thread titled: 'hey 405 what is carb cycling?" read it! it explains it pretty well IMO.. if u have more questions u know where im at!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> glad to see we are all back at it! *giddy up!*


*yee haw!*

----------


## AXx

> alright guys.. 45mins am fasted cardio done.. cut has begun


Hey man, do you ever do HIIT? I did it this morning total duration of 30 min with 5 min warmup and 5 min cool down, I burned the same calories in 20 min of HIIT that I do in 45 LIC. Good?

----------


## --->>405<<---

so here are my startn pics as promised.. along with days 1-4 diet which is fairly simple:

meal 1: 1 whole egg, 5 egg whites, 8oz 96%fat free ground beef

meal 2: 6oz chikn breast, 300g broc

meal 3: 6oz ground beef, 300g green beans

meal 4: 6oz chikn breast, 300g spinach

meal 5: 6oz bround beef, 300g broc

1514cals, 259g pro, 65g carbs, 31g fat

workouts are as follows:

day1: am fasted cardio 45mins, total body depletion 5sets per body part, 15 reps per set (2secs negative, 1sec positive)

day2: same as day 1 

day3: am fasted cardio 45 mins

day4: am fasted cardio 45mins, PM begin carb load and total body wkout 6-12 reps (fairly heavy) 4sets per body part (except arms)

day5: glorious carb load 5000cals 1000g carbs

day6: 2200cals (ill have to refigure this one macro breakdown, ) heavy 3sets 3-5reps per bodypart

day&: 2000cals (carbs in meal 1-4 and then meat and veg in meals 5,6) (possible PM cardio to begin depletion)

and yes i plan to shave my hairy self tonite!  :Smilie: 

oh yeh i weighed in at 195lbs this am..

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Hey man, do you ever do HIIT? I did it this morning total duration of 30 min with 5 min warmup and 5 min cool down, I burned the same calories in 20 min of HIIT that I do in 45 LIC. Good?


yes i do HIIT. heres a good HIIT for u to try:

5min warm up
10mins HIIT (30sec/30sec)
5mins complete rest (allows FFA build-up in blood)
20-40mins moderate
5min cooldown

----------


## AXx

> yes i do HIIT. heres a good HIIT for u to try:
> 
> 5min warm up
> 10mins HIIT (30sec/30sec)
> 5mins complete rest (allows FFA build-up in blood)
> 20-40mins moderate
> 5min cooldown


Will do sir. Good luck with your cut, its funny how some of us would consider your position a fantastic place to be, lol. I know I would, but I assume when you get to a certain look, you wonder what could be better.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Will do sir. Good luck with your cut, its funny how some of us would consider your position a fantastic place to be, lol. I know I would, but I assume when you get to a certain look, you wonder what could be better.


thx man and yes ur rite! id like to get a ripped 6pack with good separation.. if i can get that i think ill be happy! (maybe LOL).. i think the pics make me look smaller than i actually am. 5'9" 195lbs is pretty good IMO. thought about getting bigger but im thinking i just wanna be lean. strength wise im ok. so my plan is to cut for 8weeks and see where i end up. then be a lot more deliberate about maintenance than i was last time. that week long cruise made it too easy to come back home and be lackadaisical  :Smilie:

----------


## HCL

> days 1-4 diet which is fairly simple:
> 
> Meal 1: 1 whole egg, 5 egg whites, 8oz 96%fat free ground beef
> 
> meal 2: 6oz chikn breast, 300g broc
> 
> meal 3: 6oz ground beef, 300g green beans
> 
> meal 4: 6oz chikn breast, 300g spinach
> ...


ud2.0?  :Smilie:

----------


## Papiriqui

Thanks bud, i saw that thread a while back but since i wasnt into it i never payed much attention to it. I'll check it out for sure!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Made it thru first depletion workout. It was just as brutal as i remember. I cpuldnt finish the last 2 sets for legs. I think if id have tried i mite have died!! It took me over an hr to recover back to a state of somewhat normalcy. I will be repeating this workout tomorrow! Yay  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well im startn to realize im not gonna get to enjoy eating again for awhile! man i forgot what that was like.. i enjoy it somewhat in a sick and twisted way. i suppose cuz i know the results on the other side.. 8weeks should be more than enuff time and i def will have to be deliberate on my maintenance diet.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> ud2.0?


u are correct. i prefer it to a std carb cycle only cuz it keeps me sane knowing i get to eat a ton of carbs on days 4 and 5  :Wink:

----------


## bikeral

Hey bro good to see you logging everything. The old 405 is back!

----------


## --->>405<<---

:Smilie:  thx for pointing it out al!  :Smilie:

----------


## jpowell

good job bro on completing your first day of the cut. to me this is the hardest day, but now u are that much closer to your goals! good job bro.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx jp  :Smilie:  Appreciate it man ..

----------


## Razor

We need new pics!! Have to keep u accountable :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx razr. There are some above bro! 

Apparently my depletion workout was pretty effective yesterday. I weighed 195 yest am and 189 this am  :Smilie:  6 lbs of glycogen and water outta here! 

Ready for depletion workout #2 today (or am i ?) LOL

----------


## mockery

Ive been doing progressive load work out forever. But Ive read a lot of science journals talking about changing the rep range in the same week instead of using one for a period of time then switching.

is there a name for this style of training?

are you only using your 15, 12, 5 rep maxes? are you working towards them ever few weeks using progressive load?

Thanks!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Ive been doing progressive load work out forever. But Ive read a lot of science journals talking about changing the rep range in the same week instead of using one for a period of time then switching.
> 
> is there a name for this style of training?
> 
> are you only using your 15, 12, 5 rep maxes? are you working towards them ever few weeks using progressive load?
> 
> Thanks!


Im cutting and following Lyle MacDonalds Ultimate Diet 2.0 protocol. Its a 7day carb cycle. Depletion/fat burning oriented in the beginning of the week and muscle building inthe latter part of the week. 

I increase the weight where i can. But when ur eating 50% maintenance plus veggies only for carbs and doing 5 sets x 15reps total body 2 days in a row its tuff enuff just to complete let alone gain strength. 

I do strive to go up in all exercises.  :Smilie: 

Bout to start depletion wkout #2.

----------


## Back In Black

Good to see its back on and that you are a man with a plan!

Interested to see where you end up!

Good luck dude!

----------


## Papiriqui

405 i just read the thread regarding the carb cycling and i do have a question. My diet has a total cal of 2171, 303g p, 143g c, 35g f. All fats come from food sources, no added fats, if i were to remove all or most carb sources i will also reduce fat amount by 3-4 g which is not a lot. Should i increase the fats a bit? Also in my case i'll probably leave the sweet potato as a low carb day or perhaps remove all carbs, i can do without them easily for a couple days, i dont like veggies whic is the reason they are no part of my diet, if i must use them then carb cycling definitely not for me. LOL. Whats your take?

----------


## Razor

> so here are my startn pics as promised.. along with days 1-4 diet which is fairly simple:
> 
> meal 1: 1 whole egg, 5 egg whites, 8oz 96%fat free ground beef
> 
> meal 2: 6oz chikn breast, 300g broc
> 
> meal 3: 6oz ground beef, 300g green beans
> 
> meal 4: 6oz chikn breast, 300g spinach
> ...


Im going to incorporate this into my diet since im cutting too, thanks man!

----------


## --->>405<<---

no prob razr.. its tuff but effective man  :Smilie: 

well day 2 is dun. finished entire day 2 depletion successfully! no cardio today mainly cuz i didnt get to bed last nite til 0100 and had to get up at 0530 and knew of the brutal workout i had n store for me today. am fasted cardio tomorrow and thursday with PM wkout thurs followed by carb load #1  :Smilie: 

oh yeh and i sure do miss those pancakes rite about now  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

45mins am fasted cardio done. its a bit of a tough transition going from 300+ carbs per day everyday for 2months strait to zero "starchy" carbs and after fiber count virtually zero carbs at all for 4 days strait. 

feel zapped after cardio and amost a bit shaky and craving carbs like a mo fo.. about 36hrs to go and i can have some!  :Smilie: 

oh yeh yesterdays macros were: 1479cals, 261g pro, 55g carbs (42g fiber), 27g fat

----------


## bikeral

Way to go bro!

----------


## Papiriqui

Looked into UD 2.0 after i saw you mention it on other threads and it is good stuff, i'll finish it by the end of the day and go from there!!! 

Nice going on the cardio and diet!!! Keep up the good work!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx dude!

----------


## --->>405<<---

DAY 3 NO CARBS is very difficult for me  :Smilie:  craving carbs and food a lot. hungry. dont like it!  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Apparently, today is National Blueberry Muffin Day in the States. I assume 2 things

1. You don't get a day off work
2. You didn't join in with the festivities

!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Apparently, today is National Blueberry Muffin Day in the States. I assume 2 things
> 
> 1. You don't get a day off work
> 2. You didn't join in with the festivities
> 
> !!!!!!!!!!


LOL.. 
1. nope
2. nope
3. way to make the "starving" guy think about yummy blueberry muffins. thx dude! knew i could count on u for support!  :Wink: 
4. old bradley wiggins is really showing me something this yr. last yr he crashed out so early this is the first real look i have had of him. 
5. hows ur cut goin?

----------


## Back In Black

Ha ha, I knew I wouldn't help :Wink: 

Wiggins is good man, former world and Olympic champion at various disciplines but he's much slimmer nowadays. Definitely has a chance, trust me. 

Cut is ok though I am eating bout 250g carbs daily so it's more of a recomp although I upped my cardio. I should probably update my log! I have a weigh in tomorrow but haven't trained a lot since tweaking my back on Friday!

----------


## --->>405<<---

u know i wonder how i wouldve fared had i continued to do cardio 4 or so days per week instead of going 2 months without any and lifting 3days and eating 3000cals 300-350g carbs per day??? whatcha think?

----------


## Back In Black

> u know i wonder how i wouldve fared had i continued to do cardio 4 or so days per week instead of going 2 months without any and lifting 3days and eating 3000cals 300-350g carbs per day??? whatcha think?


Well, you are still pretty lean. I suppose 4x per week may have burned you approx 2000-2500 cals max, so maybe not a huge difference. Though some cardio for fitness purpose is always recommended. But cardio sucks! So I'm sure you enjoyed the break!

----------


## --->>405<<---

how is the back?

----------


## Back In Black

It's not perfect, felt it a couple of times today just walking on an incline but not on my o'head presses!!! Deadlifts are dropped and Romanian deads will be light and high reps. I'll be at a new gym in a few weeks I'm sure they'll have some things that my current gym lacks so I can make up for it.

----------


## --->>405<<---

did u move? buy a new house? start ur business?

----------


## Back In Black

> did u move? buy a new house? start ur business?


Moving in 3 weeks. As soon as we find a retail premises on our new town then we will be up and running although I suspect that will take some time. It's now 6am and I'm up for morning cardio!

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ 0600 cardio? Shoot i did mine today at 0430!  :Smilie:  

45mins am fasted dun! Tonite.. *CARBLOAD!! YAY!!*

----------


## Back In Black

> ^^ 0600 cardio? Shoot i did mine today at 0430! 
> 
> 45mins am fasted dun! Tonite.. CARBLOAD!! YAY!!


Yeah but my gym doesn't open til 630!

Enjoy the fun!

----------


## --->>405<<---

aha! i have an elliptical in my "Man Cave"  :Smilie:  i watched the conclusion of stage 10 this am while doing fasted cardio. good old tommy voeckler got himself a stage win. im glad for him  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

> aha! i have an elliptical in my "Man Cave"  i watched the conclusion of stage 10 this am while doing fasted cardio. good old tommy voeckler got himself a stage win. im glad for him


Yeah. And can you believe Voigt is 40 years old!

----------


## --->>405<<---

man i tell u that dude is a nut and always brings energy and fun when hes feeling good!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

i tell u im ready to see some action between cadel and wiggins. cadel better get his butt in gear or hes gonna run out of time. all wiggins has to do rite now is stay on cadels wheel.

----------


## --->>405<<---

just out of curiosity what time do they start racing over there? about 1300??

----------


## Papiriqui

Damn!!! I see you motivated!!! Hang in there in the no carb days bud, you'll pull through. You always do!!  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^thx pap! just about made it thru this week.. 8 more hrs (or so) and the tuff part is a dun deal.. til next week LOL

----------


## Back In Black

> just out of curiosity what time do they start racing over there? about 1300??


About 2 UK time but we may be an hour ahead. I'm lucky that I can watch most of it live, child permitting!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> About 2 UK time but we may be an hour ahead. I'm lucky that I can watch most of it live, child permitting!


yeh i can watch it live too if i dont go to work!  :Smilie:  it comes on here at 0800

----------


## RaginCajun

all this talk about the tour makes me want to drive 6 hours to go get my road bike and get after it!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> all this talk about the tour makes me want to drive 6 hours to go get my road bike and get after it!


whatcha waitin for? !!  :Wink:

----------


## Back In Black

After watching today's stage I wanna go out and spunk a sh1t load of cash on one. But it'll just sit on a turbo trainer and be a complete waste of money!

405, you considered Yohimbine yet?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> *After watching today's stage* I wanna go out and spunk a sh1t load of cash on one. But it'll just sit on a turbo trainer and be a complete waste of money!
> 
> 405, *you considered Yohimbine yet?*


1. mustve been good! dont spoil it for me i cant watch it for another 7hrs!

2. no. kinda scared LOL. heart attacks run in my family...

----------


## RaginCajun

> After watching today's stage I wanna go out and spunk a sh1t load of cash on one. But it'll just sit on a turbo trainer and be a complete waste of money!
> 
> 405, you considered Yohimbine yet?



check out some used ones in your area, you may be able to grab one for cheap.


i just currently started a NYC stack from manpower research. it gets me zoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooomin'

----------


## Back In Black

> 1. mustve been good! dont spoil it for me i cant watch it for another 7hrs!
> 
> 2. no. kinda scared LOL. heart attacks run in my family...


Best stage yet. Won't spoil it.

First time in 3 weeks I used Yohimbine today, straight back in at usual dose. Never seems to give me jitters or heart racing like clen or ephedrine more cold sweats and setimes slight nausea. Today I had to miss my last 2 intervals at the end feeling I was gonna pass out or puke. Shouldn't have jumped straight back in on a full dose!

----------


## Back In Black

> check out some used ones in your area, you may be able to grab one for cheap.
> 
> i just currently started a NYC stack from manpower research. it gets me zoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooomin'


Really don't have the time or money at the minute. Small child, moving house and setting up a business. One of my best friends owns a top end cyclery do I can get a great deal. Oh, and it's summer here and it's pretty much rained every day for months, not great road riding weather!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> [B]Best stage yet. Won't spoil it.


Awesome! Cant wait !!  :Smilie:

----------


## bikeral

Looking good dude.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Just ate 3/4 cup oats with whole banana mixd in and i would not have traded it for sex!!! Man! I forgot how good it is to eat carbs after @93hrs without them! I dont know how the keto guys do it! Whew!!

45mins til wkout. Then blueberry pancakes!

My veins are already popping out!

----------


## RaginCajun

> Really don't have the time or money at the minute. Small child, moving house and setting up a business. One of my best friends owns a top end cyclery do I can get a great deal. Oh, and it's summer here and it's pretty much rained every day for months, not great road riding weather!


gotcha! and it hasn't stop raining here either!

----------


## bikeral

I may try this carb cycle thing since it may fit in well with my weekend binges, can you do a 5 day depletion with 2 day carb load?

----------


## --->>405<<---

u dont wanna do 5 days depletion  :Smilie:  3 is enuff dude! trust me.. actually i do about 3 2/3 days .. 
day1
day2
day3
day4 (until 2hrs ago 1530) carbload
day5 carbload
day6 2200cals 
day7 2100cals (no carbs after 1500) ---->> so i guess its 4 days LOL

----------


## --->>405<<---

HIT workout dun! rocked it! got 1000 x 10 on the leg press...

----------


## --->>405<<---

*pwo blueberry pancakes baby!!!*

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> *pwo blueberry pancakes baby!!!*


looks like u deserve them! 

I was trying IF and it isn't a good fit for me, maybe I need to look at carb cycling....but i am addicted to them....maybe it will help me with my little problem  :Hmmmm:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> looks like u deserve them! 
> 
> I was trying IF and it isn't a good fit for me, maybe I need to look at carb cycling....but i am addicted to them....maybe it will help me with my little problem


i love carb cycling for cutting GGR! def outta chk it out... i also am/was addicted to those pancakes. i was eating 3 entire recipes per day!!  :Wink:  let me know if u have any questions about the carb cycle  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Did you manage to catch yesterday's stage?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> did you manage to catch yesterday's stage?


im finishing it as we speak.. (or type  :Wink:  ) 15.9km to go!

FELL ASLEEP LAST NITE HALF WAY THRU AND FEL ASLEEP AGAIN TODAY AFTER EATING 4BAGELS WITH CREAM CHEESE AND JEELLY AND A CUP OF OATS lol.. JUST WOKE UP! EATING ANOTHER 4BAGELS!

----------


## Papiriqui

Damn bagel maniac!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL pap> ive got a full belly now dude!

----------


## RaginCajun

> im finishing it as we speak.. (or type  ) 15.9km to go!
> 
> FELL ASLEEP LAST NITE HALF WAY THRU AND FEL ASLEEP AGAIN TODAY AFTER EATING 4BAGELS WITH CREAM CHEESE AND JEELLY AND A CUP OF OATS lol.. JUST WOKE UP! EATING ANOTHER 4BAGELS!


carb up!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well 2 full servings of blueberry oatmeal pancakes, 12 bagels, 2 cups oats down and i still have 12oz ground beef, 1cup brn rice, 1cup oats left! and im not real hungry  :Smilie:

----------


## jpowell

damn, i can't weight to get my body fat lowered so that i can get on this cut your on my man. lol, shit sounds superb!

----------


## mockery

whats the recipe for the pancakes?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> damn, i can't weight to get my body fat lowered so that i can get on this cut your on my man. lol, shit sounds superb!


its pretty good JP. the tuff part is getn thru the 4days of no carbs  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> whats the recipe for the pancakes?


1cup oats (ground into powder)
7 large egg whites
234g 2% cottage cheese
140g frozen blueberries (thawed)

grind oats then add egg whites and cottage cheese and blend smoothe. stir in blueberries and cook like u would pancakes... i cover with Mrs butterworths sugar free syrup.. YUM  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well today is heavy day. running on 4hrs sleep which sucks but hey thats how it goes rite? not gonna let that stop me from lifting.

cals and macros for today: 2257, 178g pro, 290g carbs, 44g fat

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i got my workout done. i didnt do any arms or shoulders. just legs, chest, back, lats (i know its back  :Wink: ).. felt tired a bit. didnt have a spotter so couldnt go as heavy as id have liked and i didnt have a whole lot of time.

did get it dun though.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well its day 7 fellows. so weigh in and bf%check. 

last week 195lbs 8.67%bf

today 192lbs 8.72%bf LOL

i do feel and look leaner. waist was 35" and now its 33.5" so obviously there is some discrepancy in bf% check  :Smilie:  obviously i will just keep rolling!

----------


## --->>405<<---

am fasted cardio dun and back to no carbs til thursday pm ..

----------


## Back In Black

> am fasted cardio dun and back to no carbs til thursday pm ..


Well done fat boy! (jk) weight and waist down is a result!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Well done fat boy! (jk) weight and waist down is a result!


thx buddy  :Smilie:  watcha think about the controversy between froomes gf and wiggins gf?? 

how bout ur cut hows it going?

----------


## Back In Black

> thx buddy  watcha think about the controversy between froomes gf and wiggins gf??
> 
> how bout ur cut hows it going?


I'm not sure Froome's gf understands the job he is being paid to do. He will be lauded as the best domestique in the race an could possibly win it next year but I think she has idea's above her station when it's her bf who is doing all the hard work!

Erm, yeah, cutting!!!!!! Back in it today, had a menu tasting yesterday and this morning! Cardio being upped this week!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I'm *not sure Froome's gf understands the job he is being paid to do*. He will be lauded as the best domestique in the race an could possibly win it next year but I think she has idea's above her station when it's her bf who is doing all the hard work!
> 
> Erm, yeah, cutting!!!!!! Back in it today, had a menu tasting yesterday and this morning! Cardio being upped this week!


yeh they usually dont  :Smilie: 

menu tasting?  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Menu tasting for my new business. Small tastes of lots of dishes I suspect have added up to thousands of calories over a 24 hour period. But that's done now so hopefully I can get a good run at it now!

----------


## --->>405<<---

cool u opening a restaraunt???

----------


## Back In Black

No way, I think I would hate that. Let's see, premium frozen ready meals aimed at the 'entertaining at home' market! No additives or preservatives just good old fashioned ingredients and techniques. Just need a premises in the right part of town, the right size and at the right price!

----------


## RaginCajun

> No way, I think I would hate that. Let's see, premium frozen ready meals aimed at the 'entertaining at home' market! No additives or preservatives just good old fashioned ingredients and techniques. Just need a premises in the right part of town, the right size and at the right price!


and the right clientale!

----------


## Back In Black

> and the right clientale!


True. I have done my demographic research and, despite the recession, it's rare that a premises comes up where we want to be! Fingers crossed!

----------


## RaginCajun

> True. I have done my demographic research and, despite the recession, it's rare that a premises comes up where we want to be! Fingers crossed!



i will say a prayer for yall! good luck my friend!

----------


## RaginCajun

> well its day 7 fellows. So weigh in and bf%check. 
> 
> Last week 195lbs 8.67%bf
> 
> today 192lbs 8.72%bf lol
> 
> i *do feel and look leaner*. Waist was 35" and now its 33.5" so obviously there is some discrepancy in bf% check  obviously i will just keep rolling!



baaaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmm!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> No way, I think I would hate that. Let's see, premium frozen ready meals aimed at the 'entertaining at home' market! No additives or preservatives just good old fashioned ingredients and techniques. Just need a premises in the right part of town, the right size and at the right price!


very interesting! how do u plan on cooking it and preserving it? and mailing it?

----------


## Back In Black

> very interesting! how do u plan on cooking it and preserving it? and mailing it?


Well, it's a small franchise. So somebody else cooks it. Preserving is done by the immediate flash freezing process they do. And we don't mail it. It's a shop, so people come to me. Although I suspect there'll be an element of home delivery locally, too. 

I will pm you a link to the website.

----------


## gymsoldier

> well its day 7 fellows. so weigh in and *bf%check.*


Are you using callipers or electrical impedance for your body fat measurement?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Well, it's a small franchise. So somebody else cooks it. Preserving is done by the immediate flash freezing process they do. And we don't mail it. It's a shop, so people come to me. Although I suspect there'll be an element of home delivery locally, too. 
> 
> I will pm you a link to the website.


cool thx! maybe u could include ur "secret recipe " pasta and ill order some  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Are you using callipers or electrical impedance for your body fat measurement?


calipers r the only way to go man!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

oh yeh depletion day 1 week 2 dun! got thru the whole wkout this time. only took 1 week  :Smilie:

----------


## 1tuffmudder

good stuff bro, how are you liking the carb cycling?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> good stuff bro, how are you liking the carb cycling?


thx man  :Smilie:  i love it and i hate it! depends when u ask me  :Smilie:  speaking for myself its the most effective way to cut thus far. i may consider IF at some point (prob with carb cycling) but other than that ive not seen what i consider a more logical way to cut. speaking from a perspective of someone startn a cut from a somewhat lean disposition  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

depletion day 2 week 2 ... no cardio this am. want to save energy for the brutal wkout i have coming at lunch!

----------


## bikeral

Looking good bro, I see you are full on.

----------


## --->>405<<---

u know it!

----------


## RaginCajun

how long is your lunch? i have been thinking of going do some cardio during lunch. my lunch is only one hour long

----------


## --->>405<<---

mine is an hr as well. 

just so u have no excuses  :Wink:  ive driven to the park (10min drive), ran 4 miles, driven back to work all in an hr!

----------


## RaginCajun

> mine is an hr as well. 
> 
> just so u have no excuses  ive driven to the park (10min drive), ran 4 miles, driven back to work all in an hr!



HA! i would have to shower!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> HA! i would have to shower!


sissy  :Wink:

----------


## RaginCajun

> sissy



can't be stinking up my office!!!!!!!!

----------


## jpowell

Hey 405, waddu rec as far as cardio go for a heart rate level...i thght arnd 120 wod b my fat burning zone, but im reading an article that says i meed to b armd 165 for 30 mins?

Sent from my iPhone using Forum

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Hey 405, waddu rec as far as cardio go for a heart rate level...i thght arnd 120 wod b my fat burning zone, but im reading an article that says i meed to b armd 165 for 30 mins?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum


jp when i do cardio i stay around 135-145BPM

----------


## RaginCajun

> Hey 405, waddu rec as far as cardio go for a heart rate level...i thght arnd 120 wod b my fat burning zone, but im reading an article that says i meed to b armd 165 for 30 mins?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Forum





> jp when i do cardio i stay around 135-145BPM



i would suggest keeping it under 135bpm, but it depends on age and resting HR. if you would continue to train at 165, it would help out your cardiovascular endurance

----------


## --->>405<<---

I TELL U one thing.. its a bit tuff to stretch 1400cals out to fill up an entire day without dealing with some hunger issues!  :Wink:

----------


## mockery

> I TELL U one thing.. its a bit tuff to stretch 1400cals out to fill up an entire day without dealing with some hunger issues!


yeah u get a case of teh angries! roar!

----------


## jpowell

i applaud your discipline bro!

----------


## 1tuffmudder

for real man. sounds tough, great stuff for keeping at it.

----------


## milky01623

> I TELL U one thing.. its a bit tuff to stretch 1400cals out to fill up an entire day without dealing with some hunger issues!


Dude no joke I'm struggling with 1800 but you and steM both inspire me to stick with it 
I admire you sheer determination

----------


## --->>405<<---

> i applaud your discipline bro!


thx JP.. im drinking a ton of water to get me thru! it works man!




> for real man. sounds tough, great stuff for keeping at it.


thx bro  :Smilie: 




> Dude no joke I'm struggling with 1800 but you and steM both inspire me to stick with it 
> I admire you sheer determination


drink water man. when i pick up a bottle i finish it! this am i filled up 5 x 16oz bottles and 1 x 32oz bottle. ill repeat this 2 more times today for about 300oz water!

well i did my am fasted cardio this am. 
5min warm up
10mins HIIT
5 min rest
20min moderate

all i have to do now is make it til tomorrow afternoon with one more cardio session and itll be carb load time again. looking leaner and feeling good! down to 191 this am which is a pound lighter than this time last week  :Smilie:

----------


## SlimmerMe

Hi 405! You have inspired many........GOOD FOR YOU!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well pluggin thru the end of day 3 on no carbs.. im a hungry MOFO. even when i get dun eatn im hungry LOL. this time tomorrow itll all be over again! on a positive note the old abs r starting to pop out again and this is only week 2!

i tell u (and i think ive said this before) its worth the torture of 4 days no carbs for the 30hrs of gorge/carbload LOL.. im a sad sad guy. LOL

----------


## eightythree

How many cals you cutting on?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> How many cals you cutting on?


its a little complicated but it goes like this:
1400
1400
1400
1000 (wake up til 1600 no carbs) then lift followed by 1500cals from mainly carbs
5000 (4000cals from carbs/1000 from protein)
2250
2250

----------


## eightythree

So it sounds like you are carb cycling? How is your energy levels on those 1400 cal days? You look like a pretty big dude, curious to see how that works for you.

----------


## --->>405<<---

energy i suppose is ok. feel a little sluggish today. but on day 1 and day 2 i do 40 sets (each day) total body depletion workouts at 15 reps per set. also doing am fasted cardio 45mins 3-4 days on days 1-4 so im a little run down  :Smilie:  but it is effective in getting rid of fat. im on day 10 and seeing results already in the mirror.

ive never been one to pay a lot of attn to my energy levels LOL  :Smilie:  but now that u mention it i do feel tired today especially.. but i know whats coming tomorrow and down the road result wise so its worth it..

and also i am only getting about 6hrs sleep at nite here lately

----------


## digsy1983

[QUOTE=---but i know whats coming tomorrow and down the road result wise so its worth it.[/QUOTE]

Awesome dedication. Inspiring to see how hard you train and push your diet aswel. FEED THE EGO, NOT THE BELLY! (My new motto)
Gud work!

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^  :Smilie:  thx bro! 

Am fasted. Cardio done. 10 hrs and it my first carb meal!

----------


## milky01623

> ^^  thx bro!
> 
> Am fasted. Cardio done. 10 hrs and it my first carb meal!


Bet you can't wait for the carb load lol
Keep at it dude

----------


## bikeral

Dude when you say its on. *It's ON*

way to go.

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^thx Al! glad to see u in here dude!  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well my half day thursday is dun at work. heading to the car wash and look for a recliner and then the gym and then i eat baby yeh!

----------


## milky01623

Ok top man I'm on board lol I've subbed to your thread

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Ok top man I'm on board lol I've subbed to your thread


good deal milky! i can use the company and support!  :Smilie:

----------


## digsy1983

just watch you dont damage the tips of ya fingers when you start back on the carbs! remember, little bites and chew each mouthfull 20 times!!! ha

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^LOL 

well lifting is dun and so are 135g carbs! i tell u they are fantastic after 4 days. the last carb i had before 1530 today was around 1700 sunday. im stronger too! 225 x 12 reps on the bench no prob followed by 245 x 10. im shooting for 330 which will surpass my max by 15lbs. i did 275 x 7 two weeks ago. the most i could do when i benched 315 was 275 x 5. 

all i have to do now for the next 30hrs is sit on my butt and stuff carbs down my throat! yes!  :Smilie:  LOL

----------


## tbody66

Looking great. You sure have it dialed in and are nailing it. Great for you. I know you'll keep it up!

----------


## --->>405<<---

*HOLY HECK!!!!!* look what the cat dragged in! whats up bro!!?? u know ur 15days late we were supposed to have a party at ur house 2 weeks ago!  :Wink:

----------


## tbody66

The house was cleaned, the gym was rented and no one showed!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Lol...

----------


## --->>405<<---

well nutn to do today but eat!

----------


## milky01623

> well nutn to do today but eat!


Wish I could lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

figure id post a pic. feeln better already! the bottle of water in the cereal bowl was to show u how big the bowl was. i dont think it was as effective as id hoped. but i can assure u it was a big bowl!

id also like to note the lats are finally startn to come in. i guess all these chin ups are finally payn off! ive also been doing some shrugs to work on the traps. need some more time for them!

----------


## Back In Black

Looking good, as ever. Started training those and yet?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Looking good, as ever. *Started training those and yet?*


????

----------


## Back In Black

Abs, sorry.

Oh, and wait til you get to see today's stage of le tour!

----------


## --->>405<<---

ab training: no not really. maybe when i get to maintenance (which will be a lot more focused on staying lean and possibly leaning out more over a longer period of time slowly). the 2 depletion days leave no room for abs and the other 2 days really dont either. i suppose i could add them but im usually wiped out getting thru the sched wkout! my 3 "off" days per week, 2 o them i do am fasted cardio and the other i eat 5000cals of carbs! LOL

le tour: i cant wait! it appears there shouldnt be any big surprises left! however i hope the manx missile will break 22 between today and the champs elysees (my favorite sprint finish!) im not looking forward to the tour ending it always makes me sad  :Frown:  its the only real sporting event i enjoy watching on tv.

----------


## Back In Black

Well mate, I would have my money on him on the final day! No interest in the Olympics that start next week then!

----------


## --->>405<<---

actually YES i forgot about them! i love the olympics! so i have that going for me!  :Smilie:

----------


## milky01623

Looking well dude 
I tried chins once but I had to stop due to me bending the bar lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

well its official. bagels and english muffins are off my list for carb load food choices. ive had my fill! i just threw the last 3 english muffins in the trash. ill have to make those 75g carbs up somewhere else. im thinking pasta with red sauce, hot sauce, garlic powder! thats gonna be my new thing.

----------


## Back In Black

Mate, you should never throw anything English away :Wink:  Mix up them carb sources dude, no harm in that!

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh i suppose i need to get more creative. pancakes, cereal, oats, sweet potatoes, bagels, brn rice, english muffins.. now pasta.. 

is there anything else thats healthy? i mean i eat all the ones listed but when u have to eat 1300g carbs its easy to run out of options considering the quantity of food i have to ingest and i have to keep fats to a minimum!  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

White rice, white potatoes, quinoa, corn flakes. The quantity involved is one reason I'd struggle to carb cycle!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> White rice, white potatoes, quinoa, corn flakes. The quantity involved is one reason I'd struggle to carb cycle!


noted!  :Smilie:  the quantity isnt the prob as much as the variety. most people carb load on 300g or so but the one im doing requires much higher amts.. which is fun but i have to limit sucrose/fructose which sucks! really only allowed 100g sucrose/50g fructose

TBH i dont know if only 300g carbs would be enuff motivation for me anymore to get thru the 3 low days  :Smilie:

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> yeh i suppose i need to get more creative. pancakes, cereal, oats, sweet potatoes, bagels, brn rice, english muffins.. now pasta.. 
> 
> is there anything else thats healthy? i mean i eat all the ones listed but when u have to eat 1300g carbs its easy to run out of options considering the quantity of food i have to ingest and i have to keep fats to a minimum!


my idea of carb cycling is cookies, cupcakes, blueberry pancakes with butter and real maple syrup....did I miss a meeting????

----------


## --->>405<<---

> my idea of carb cycling is cookies, cupcakes, blueberry pancakes with butter and real maple syrup....did I miss a meeting????


LOL i hear ya GGR! now i suspect i could hit 1300g carbs with ur diet no prob!  :Wink: 

course itd prob be 1300g fat too ..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i figd id post macros just for fun since i started the carbload (yesterday 15:00) 

7078cals
378g pro (20%)
1272g carbs (70%)
94g fat (10%)

id also like to note im farting about every 120sec (or less) and have been for a few hrs LOL... my wife is none too happy with me LOL.. she says "youve got to stop farting" LOL

just finished last meal and my belly is full and im going to bed! nite..

----------


## tbody66

Your eating routine is insane, and obviously affective. Your current pic is nice!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Your eating routine is insane, and obviously affective. Your current pic is nice!


thx man! its famine/feast for sure. it does work. i dont remember if i had implemented the carb cycle yet the last time u were on here or not? its the best way to drop bf% IMO.. 

tomorrow will be bf% check. weighed 195 this am ill have to look back and see what my weight was last week this time.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well 1 more day and its back to meat and spinach LOL..

i forgot i askd my wife to give me some spinach today so when i got home i found it and had to eat .6kg spinach! boy that was good  :Smilie:  

had good lift today.. couldnt go as heavy as i can cuz i dont have a spotter which sucks.

----------


## cue_artist

lol bro thats alot of carbs  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> lol bro thats alot of carbs


 :Smilie:  believe me i know i have to eat them!  :Wink:  supercompensation (a heck of a word and idea)..

----------


## tbody66

working out alone always limits us, sorry to hear you had to do that on a strong/heavy day.

----------


## milky01623

> well 1 more day and its back to meat and spinach LOL..
> 
> i forgot i askd my wife to give me some spinach today so when i got home i found it and had to eat .6kg spinach! boy that was good 
> 
> had good lift today.. couldnt go as heavy as i can cuz i dont have a spotter which sucks.


Dude try smiths bench haha

----------


## --->>405<<---

> working out alone always limits us, sorry to hear you had to do that on a strong/heavy day.


Thx tbody. Im used to it. I always (99%) work out alone.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Dude try smiths bench haha


Funny fella!!  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well guys im a happy camper again! 

Weight: 193
Bf%: 7.81

Im back to my lowest bf% ive ever been and i weigh 10lbs more than i did last time i was here! This next week is gonna be big to see if i go below 7.8% i sure hope i do! 

Id like to get to 6% and then stay there!

----------


## milky01623

> Funny fella!!


Took your advice today and did db presses instead of smiths although its a weight thing again at my gym the max I could use was 30kg which wasn't light but I felt I could've easily done more :-( 
Any ideas?

----------


## --->>405<<---

U dont have enuff wt for regular flat bench? 30lb db is like 66lb.. I say if the answer to the question is "yes" my suggestion: FIND ANOTHER GYM!

----------


## milky01623

> U dont have enuff wt for regular flat bench? 30lb db is like 66lb.. I say if the answer to the question is "yes" my suggestion: FIND ANOTHER GYM!


Nah man all the free weights other than the smiths r moulded rubber the max bar is 45 kg about 90lb for flat bench on a smiths I bench double this the db is in kilos aswell so it's more 60lb each mind you Avin said that it's still not enough maybe a new gym is in order lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

NEW GYM DUDE!! Now get going!  :Wink:

----------


## tbody66

you are doing all you can do and it shows. Keep it up!

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx tbody!  :Smilie: 

well the weekend is over. i took the family out for lunch and had some bread and evoo with herbs, cheesesticks, pizza.. (and i threw in a snickers bar just cuz i could i mean after everything else i figd "why not"?) so now back to the grind. itll be interesting to see if today throws off the rest of this coming week's progress. if so i dont care really im pretty happy where im at. wouldnt mind cutting a bit more fat but theres not a LOT left to cut.

i will prob run this cut 2 more weeks and see if my bf% stalls at 7.8% (where im at now). i suppose if it keeps dropping ill keep going to see where i end up!if it stalls i will prob switch to maintenance carb cycle around 2500cals which should still put me in a deficit and see what happens.

----------


## LiveFitBeFit

Hey 405- I am very interested in knowing what your current diet plan daily is looking like? seems that you've made incredible progress over the past months. Looking to check out your diet if you could write one up for us... Thanks dude

LFBF

----------


## --->>405<<---

well its monday am again and im back in the saddle again after a great cheat meal yesterday. 45mins am fasted cardio dun!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Hey 405- I am very interested in knowing what your current diet plan daily is looking like? seems that you've made incredible progress over the past months. Looking to check out your diet if you could write one up for us... Thanks dude
> 
> LFBF


ill be happy to man  :Smilie:  one thing about my diet is along with it goes a strict workout schedule. i cant say for sure how well the diet will work without the workout. its really a total package. one needs to other according to the designer of the diet (Lyle MacDonald). it is Ultimate Diet 2.0

----------


## --->>405<<---

well depletion workout 1 is dun again. it sure was easier today than 2 weeks ago! 

when i started this diet a few months ago (before the 2 months maintenance/unintended mini bulk) i was doing 135lbs on most of my bench with maybe the first set or 2 (after warmup) at 155lbs. now im doing 185lbs for my chest depletion and i think im gonna have to bump it up to 195.. pretty happy about that!

also i can do chins for my lats instead of pulldowns for 3 sets x 15.. progress progress  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Hey 405- I am very interested in knowing what your current diet plan daily is looking like? seems that you've made incredible progress over the past months. Looking to check out your diet if you could write one up for us... Thanks dude
> 
> LFBF


ok live here u go man.. this will be somewhat crude but give u an idea:

*DAY 1 - 3:* 
1479CALS, 261G PRO, 55G CARB, 27g fat

1. ground beef, 5eggwhites
2. ground beef, chikn breast (mixed), spinach
3. same as 2 (alternate grn veggies with spinach, broc, asparagus, green beans)
4. same as 2
5. same as 2

*DAY 4:* (am - 1500) 
1. 5 egg whites, ground beef
2. chikn ground beef mixd, spinach
3. chikn ground beef mixd, broc

(1500-bed) 
4. 1cup oats, 1 banana
5. whole recipe oat pancakes with blueberries
6. 2 servings honey bunches oats, 2 servings multigrain cheerios, 1banana, 2 serv skim milk
7. 2 bagels with fat free cream cheese and sugar free strawberry jam

*DAY 5:*
1. WHOLE RECIPE blueberry oat pancakes
2. 3 bagels with creme cheese and jelly (fat free sugar free every time i mention it)
3. 3 bagels same as 2
4. 3 bagels same as 2
5. 4 english muffins with fixins (jelly, cheese)
6. 4 eng muffins, cup oats with jam
7. 3 bagels, cup oats with jam and banana
8. 4 english muffins
9. whole recipe blueberry oat pancakes
10. cup oats with jam
11. 6oz ground beef, 1/2 cup brn rice (uncooked)
12. 6oz ground beef, 1/2 cup brn rice (uncooked)

*DAY 6:*
1. whole recipe oat pancakes (blueberry)
2. 4oz chk, 1 cup oats with jam
3. 4oz beef, 1/2 cup brn rice
4. same as 3
5. 1cup cottage cheese, 32g natty pb

*DAY 7:*
pretty similar to day 6 except i have 2tbs natty pb and drop carbs by 1500

id also like to note on PM day 4 thru day 6 i frequently can be found with a box of peanut butter capn crunch in my hands in the kitchen standing in front of the fridge (i give myself allowances LOL and it hasnt hurt too much that i can see  :Wink: )

----------


## AXx

Hey brother, did you actually read the book or did you find a paraphrase version of it?


Nevermind I found it

----------


## --->>405<<---

i read the book. suggest u do the same if u plan on using it. although u prob dont need it rite now depeding on ur bf%.. if ur over 15% ur good on reg diet..

----------


## jpowell

Lookin good n the avi bro!

Sent from my iPhone using Forum

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx JP!

45min am fasted cardio done!

Thought yall mite be interested to know even as lean as i am now i had a "fat day" yesterday and today. Think cuz of the carabbas pizza sunday (the day after carbload - a big no no). So mch so it screws w my head makn me question the effectiveness of my diet approach! If anyone else feels like this sometimes ur not alone. I will keep rolling though!

----------


## gonejeepin

7.8%bf is the furthest thing from fat.

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh  :Smilie:  i do question the accuracy of my wifes ability to caliper me but shes been doing it for about a year. i have a trouble area on my lower back around the love handle area (its mentioned in "stubborn fat solution"- a great book by Lyle MacDonald addressing getting rid of the last bit of stubborn fat) theres not a lot there and some days its ok and others it bothers me. i think when i hold water thats where it goes  :Smilie:

----------


## gonejeepin

I've heard nothing but good things about lyle's books, they only available online or can they be had at chapter and cole's and such?

----------


## --->>405<<---

good question. i dont know. i got it online awhile back. the pdf is on my other laptop which has a broken screen  :Smilie:  im gonna see if i can use my tv as a monitor to transfer it to this laptop im using now...

i highly recommend u read both ultimate diet 2.0 and stubborn fat solution. u will learn a lot about fat and how to get rid of it.

----------


## Back In Black

405, do you want me to email them back to you, would that help?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 405, do you want me to email them back to you, would that help?


that would be fantastic!  :Smilie:  u still have the address? if not i can pm it to u..

----------


## Back In Black

Yes mate I have it,, you'll have it within the hour!

----------


## --->>405<<---

sweet! thx dude!

----------


## AXx

I just finished with UD2, holy sheeet. Sounds impressive, apparently it works. 7.8% bf, lol. Thats awesome, I think I was that when I came out of the womb, and never looked back. You my friend have done a fantastic job. Hell I was 6'0 175 in 7th grade.

----------


## milky01623

What are the names of those books by Lyle McDonald hulkster

----------


## Back In Black

> What are the names of those books by Lyle McDonald hulkster


Milky, PM me your email address!

----------


## --->>405<<---

hey stem i downloaded and it said the folder is empty when i tried to open it?

----------


## tbody66

Okay, nothing new? Well... carry on then!

----------


## Back In Black

> hey stem i downloaded and it said the folder is empty when i tried to open it?


Resent!

----------


## --->>405<<---

ive got the wife chekn when she gets home. i cant open it. it says its 11.72MB download but when i double click on the folder it tells me the folder is empty! shes a bit irritated with me LOL

----------


## Back In Black

> ive got the wife chekn when she gets home. i cant open it. it says its 11.72MB download but when i double click on the folder it tells me the folder is empty! shes a bit irritated with me LOL


I remember she was the one that sent it to me on account of your IT skills being worse than mine! Milky got his.

----------


## RaginCajun

damn, i need to read it. stem sent it to me a long time ago. on another note, going pick up my road bike and trainer from baton rouge this weekend so i will have another tool to do cardio on!

----------


## --->>405<<---

baton rouge = stick red  :Smilie: 

got it dun stem thx bro!

yeh shes smarter than me about a lot of stuff except the stuff i say im smarter than her about  :Wink:  LOL

----------


## milky01623

> I remember she was the one that sent it to me on account of your IT skills being worse than mine! Milky got his.


Dude mine won't open on me iPad so I'll check this weekend on the pc
Funny thing all this talk off road bikes I'm off to trade in my mtb on Saturday lol

----------


## tbody66

too much tech talk for me, and did cajun say tools do cardio?

----------


## --->>405<<---

morning guys and gals! am fasted cardio done..

5min warm up
10min HIIT
5min rest
25min moderate

all i have to do now is lift and then eat! feeln a little less fat today too  :Smilie:

----------


## milky01623

> morning guys and gals! am fasted cardio done..
> 
> 5min warm up
> 10min HIIT
> 5min rest
> 25min moderate
> 
> all i have to do now is lift and then eat! feeln a little less fat today too


I wish you'd all stop sayin your feelin fat.....I AM fat at circa 20% imagine what I see in a mirror
Sometimes I feel like arnie but mostly the BLOB hahaha

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I wish you'd all stop sayin your feelin fat.....I AM fat at circa 20% *imagine what I see in a mirror*
> Sometimes I feel like arnie but mostly the BLOB hahaha


i know what u see in the mirror and can imagine milky! here ill show u...  :Smilie:

----------


## milky01623

> i know what u see in the mirror and can imagine milky! here ill show u...


Dude when did r lass give you these pics ov me? They're my pants and my hair lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

just to give u some comparison i took this other pic this am after cardio. same bathroom LOL:

----------


## milky01623

Attachment 124857

This is me in that same bathroom this am
I mean this was me sun am before workout 
Body fat ?

----------


## milky01623

> just to give u some comparison i took this other pic this am after cardio. same bathroom LOL:


What's the time scale between shots?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> What's the time scale between shots?


first pic last october.. 2nd pic today.. but i have been this lean since march... so.. 6months

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Attachment 124857
> 
> This is me in that same bathroom this am
> I mean this was me sun am before workout 
> Body fat ?


id guesstimate 18-20% arms down would give a better view  :Smilie: 

ur not as fat as i was!  :Wink:

----------


## milky01623

> first pic last october.. 2nd pic today.. but i have been this lean since march... so.. 6months


Fantastic that's where I'd like to be

----------


## tbody66

Good stuff, 405, milky... keep it up, you'll get there.

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx tbody  :Smilie:

----------


## milky01623

> Good stuff, 405, milky... keep it up, you'll get there.


Thanx chap I need all the encouragement I can get

----------


## --->>405<<---

well due to work and Bible study tonite i had to lift at lunch instead of my usual 1600 lift. workout went well. feeln strong.. had a lil oats and a banana pre wo just to get in some carbs since i was going heavier today. waiting til 1600 to start carb load.

----------


## gonejeepin

wow, thats a huge difference, awsome job, gives me hope.

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx bro! i couldnt have done it without this forum! stick to it dude!

----------


## --->>405<<---

morning people. not a lot to post other than i get to sit on my butt all day and eat carbs.. again!  :Wink: 

feeln pretty lean today too!

----------


## --->>405<<---

thoroughly enjoying stuffing my face with a HUGE bowl of pasta rite now! im gonna wash that down with a few handfuls of peanut butter capn crunch!

this is only 1/3 the carbs i have to eat today! SteM thx for reminding me about pasta. way better than 12 bagels!

----------


## tbody66

Glad to hear you are having a blast with the carb load, how is your strength on this program?

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx tbody! strength is great man. im getting stronger. doin 275 on bench for reps and 385 on squats for reps (could prob do well over 400 but i usually lift alone). 

on my depletion days my 5set x 15reps bench has gone up about 40lbs .. leg press im doing 900-1000lbs for 15 reps x 3 sets 

things r good dude! this carb load and the way the diet and workout is designed lets u super compensate ur muscles with glycogen and also allows u to partition nutrients more efficiently during the carb load which is why it is suggested (at my weight) to eat around 1300g carbs and 7000cals..

----------


## deathdodger

Thats a lot of food to eat your looking real lean in your avatar.

----------


## milky01623

> thoroughly enjoying stuffing my face with a HUGE bowl of pasta rite now! im gonna wash that down with a few handfuls of peanut butter capn crunch!
> 
> this is only 1/3 the carbs i have to eat today! SteM thx for reminding me about pasta. way better than 12 bagels!


Happy eating and thanks I'm starving

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL MILKY! sorry bro! i was hungry the first 4 days of the week.. 1400cals and NO carbs (unless u consider spinach and broccoli a carb which after eatn it 4 meals per day 4 days per week i DO NOT!)

----------


## --->>405<<---

Good heavy workout day today. Managed 85lb DBs for seated shoulder press. A personal best for me. Also did 245lbs on incline (another best). Seems im getting stronger. I like this esp considering technically im on a cutting diet!

----------


## milky01623

> Good heavy workout day today. Managed 85lb DBs for seated shoulder press. A personal best for me. Also did 245lbs on incline (another best). Seems im getting stronger. I like this esp considering technically im on a cutting diet!


Well done buddy I wonder if I'll do some pb's tomorrow

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Good heavy workout day today. Managed 85lb DBs for seated shoulder press. *A personal best for me.* Also did 245lbs on incline (another best). *Seems im getting stronger. I like this esp considering technically im on a cutting diet!*


cheers on your personal best! 


getting stronger on a cutting diet - Is this a-typical?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Well done buddy I wonder if I'll do some pb's tomorrow


i hope so milky!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> cheers on your personal best! 
> 
> 
> getting stronger on a cutting diet - Is this a-typical?


typical im not sure GGR. its desirable and achievable sometimes  :Smilie:  i know i certainly like it!

----------


## tbody66

Take strength gains whenever you can get them and take fat loss whenever you can get that, when you can get both you are truly in the promised land. I am glad to hear about your PB's and stoked to hear about gaining 40 lbs on your bench for reps! You're nose is the only thing that is disconcerting to me, I hope that has nothing to do with your diet...

----------


## ghettoboyd

> Take strength gains whenever you can get them and take fat loss whenever you can get that, when you can get both you are truly in the promised land. I am glad to hear about your PB's and stoked to hear about gaining 40 lbs on your bench for reps! You're nose is the only thing that is disconcerting to me, I hope that has nothing to do with your diet...


lmfao!!!!thats some funnt shit bro...

----------


## --->>405<<---

> take strength gains whenever you can get them and take fat loss whenever you can get that, when you can get both you are truly in the promised land. I am glad to hear about your pb's and stoked to hear about gaining 40 lbs on your bench for reps! *you're nose is the only thing that is disconcerting to me, i hope that has nothing to do with your diet...*


lol!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well the end of week 3 winding to a close. been debating today whether to continue this carb cycle or change to maintenance with maybe some sort of carb cycle associated with it. 

weight and bf today: 191lbs 7.93%bf so ive pretty much stagnated at the same point i did last time. other than that i dunno. maybe i need to do something else. im open to suggestion. im beginning to wonder if this is as low as i can get or maybe if this is as low as i can get utilizing UD2.0 with the 7000cal carb load? 

i considered cycling carbs in the same fashion but instead of having a 7000cal refeed with 1300g carbs maybe having a refeed with 500g carbs .. id like for my abs to come out more as well. 

SteM what u think dude? im kinda bored with ud2.0 considering when i get to 7.8% i tend to stay there. its way too much work just to maintain...

----------


## gonejeepin

Now that you pointed it out something definately has to be done about that nose, lmao

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok fellas hows this? better? 

also did 60mins cardio this evening. was feeln bored and like im not doing enuff

----------


## milky01623

> ok fellas hows this? better?
> 
> also did 60mins cardio this evening. was feeln bored and like im not doing enuff


Dude I think you're just runnin scared cos I'll soon look like you ........... Lean and mahooosive

----------


## gonejeepin

> ok fellas hows this? better? 
> 
> also did 60mins cardio this evening. was feeln bored and like im not doing enuff


Much better, doesn't look like u have genitals for a nose now

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Much better, *doesn't look like u have genitals for a nose now*


LOL that was the intent! im still a kid at heart i suppose!  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i think im gonna work on a difft approach to my diet this week and im running around maintenance cals:
2500cals
300g pro
200g carb
60g fat

had a great day in the gym. did my 1rep max on bench and got *345lbs*! thats a *personal best* for me by 35lbs.. happy camper. i think if i hadnt done 315 and 335 i mite be able to get more than that but ill take it! not bad for a 190lb guy i think..

----------


## gonejeepin

Congrats on the bench pb, those are crazy numbers ..... Just curious as to how long you were on the ud 2.0 diet and what bf% you were when u started it and how long it took u to get to the 7.8% u are at now.

----------


## --->>405<<---

i originally did it back in march to prep for a cruise. i cant remember where i was then when i started but i was at 7.8 by the end of april. 

this go around i started in the 9's (which took me 2 months of eatn 3000cals per day with no cardio to get from 7.8 to like 9.8) and in 3 weeks i went back down to 7.8.. 

its effective! i havent tried it from like 12% i did a reg carb cycle to get from 12-13 to 10 and then used ud2 to get from 10 to 8..

now i wanna get to 6!

----------


## Judah

> well i think im gonna work on a difft approach to my diet this week and im running around maintenance cals:
> 2500cals
> 300g pro
> 200g carb
> 60g fat
> 
> had a great day in the gym. did my 1rep max on bench and got 345lbs! thats a personal best for me by 35lbs.. happy camper. i think if i hadnt done 315 and 335 i mite be able to get more than that but ill take it! not bad for a 190lb guy i think..


345...beastly

----------


## milky01623

> well i think im gonna work on a difft approach to my diet this week and im running around maintenance cals:
> 2500cals
> 300g pro
> 200g carb
> 60g fat
> 
> had a great day in the gym. did my 1rep max on bench and got 345lbs! thats a personal best for me by 35lbs.. happy camper. i think if i hadnt done 315 and 335 i mite be able to get more than that but ill take it! not bad for a 190lb guy i think..


All these pb's I'm jealous although I did do 70lb each side on seated cable flys on Sunday 
Not bad considering I only usually do 50 
You see this is another reason I've nicknamed you hulkster lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 345...beastly


  :Smilie:  thx man! my goal is 405lbs (hence the name  :Wink: )




> All these pb's I'm jealous although I did do 70lb each side on seated cable flys on Sunday 
> Not bad considering I only usually do 50 
> You see this is another reason I've nicknamed you hulkster lol


u will get there buddy! did u join a difft gym yet?

am fasted cardio 45mins done for today. back/tris/(maybe shoulders at lunch)

----------


## milky01623

> thx man! my goal is 405lbs (hence the name )
> 
> u will get there buddy! did u join a difft gym yet?
> 
> am fasted cardio 45mins done for today. back/tris/(maybe shoulders at lunch)


Nah not joined one yet I'm still lookin
My biggest problem is that I can't b doing with meatheads trying to intimidate me and bullying instead off trying to be helpful I kinda don't respond well!!!!!!
But I'll keep looking lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Nah not joined one yet I'm still lookin
> My biggest problem is that I can't b doing with *meatheads trying to intimidate me and bullying* instead off trying to be helpful I kinda don't respond well!!!!!!
> But I'll keep looking lol


dang it u got that goin on over there?

----------


## milky01623

> dang it u got that goin on over there?


It's quite common in the BODYBUILDING gym which would be ideal for me
What it is is there are a lot of old school mining attitudes eg "I'm top dog if you don't like it eat my fist" and to make it worse they don't know how to respect juice so I guess roid rage is rife
I'm not sayin they're all like this but I'm also an out off towner from an old rival town and the rivalry would be similar to republicans and democrats lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

thats very interesting. LOL. u cant go there and just do ur thing without having to be social?

----------


## milky01623

> thats very interesting. LOL. u cant go there and just do ur thing without having to be social?


Never thought of that just plug the iPod in and do my thang !!!!!!!' :-) good idea hulkster

----------


## gonejeepin

> thats very interesting. LOL. u cant go there and just do ur thing without having to be social?


Best thing to do milky! ... My gym is full of guys that are constantly mean mugging, flapping their gums and trying to one-up everyone... I walk in, say hello to the pretty ladies @ the front, turn on the ipod, and don't say a word to anyone till I walk out the door.

----------


## milky01623

> Best thing to do milky! ... My gym is full of guys that are constantly mean mugging, flapping their gums and trying to one-up everyone... I walk in, say hello to the pretty ladies @ the front, turn on the ipod, and don't say a word to anyone till I walk out the door.


Like your style bro :-)

----------


## tbody66

Congrats on the progress and the 345lb bench. We need to get together for a hardcore workout!

----------


## --->>405<<---

im always down for a hardcore workout!  :Smilie:  and thx!

----------


## RaginCajun

405, congrats on the new PB's! i remember once in a time when i could lift heavy like that.

----------


## Back In Black

> 405, congrats on the new PB's! i remember once in a time when i could lift heavy like that.


I remember NEVER being able to lift that heavy. I do remember weighing 190lbs though!

----------


## RaginCajun

> I remember NEVER being able to lift that heavy. I do remember weighing 190lbs though!


i powerlifted in college. i once weighed 190, right when i joined this site!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I remember NEVER being able to lift that heavy. I do remember weighing 190lbs though!


hey buddy! how did the move go??

----------


## Back In Black

> hey buddy! how did the move go??


Doesn't happen til Friday this week. House is in disarray with boxes everywhere and my 2 year old keeps unpacking them when I'm not looking!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Doesn't happen til Friday this week. House is in disarray with boxes everywhere and my* 2 year old keeps unpacking them when I'm not looking!!!*




LOL thats funny! in case u didnt see im thinking of trying out IF..

----------


## Back In Black

> LOL thats funny! in case u didnt see im thinking of trying out IF..


No, really it's not funny! IF interests me, but not sure I could fit it into my life but I will try, seems more lifestyle friendly than a carb cycle!

----------


## --->>405<<---

i like the idea of 3 big meals. as long as i can make it til 1300 ill be good!

----------


## RaginCajun

> i like the idea of 3 big meals. as long as i can make it til 1300 ill be good!


it is tough at first but gets easier. the one big thing that i notice after i eat lunch (first meal), i have a huge surge of energy, unlike when i use to eat lunch (maybe my 3-4th meal) and ready to find a bed/couch!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> it is tough at first but gets easier. the one big thing that i notice after i eat lunch (first meal), i have a huge surge of energy, unlike when i use to eat lunch (maybe my 3-4th meal) and ready to find a bed/couch!


cool.. sounds good. i can always implement the eca stack to get thru the first week or so if i have to  :Smilie:  i will have it on standby!

----------


## tbody66

so you are starting IF for sure?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> so you are starting IF for sure?


yeh i think i am tbody. ive done low carb, carb cycle, maintenance, unintended bulk. mite as well  :Smilie:  maybe itll get me as lean as id like (6%)

----------


## RaginCajun

> cool.. sounds good. i can always implement the eca stack to get thru the first week or so if i have to  i will have it on standby!



trust me, you will need something!

----------


## --->>405<<---

lucky me  :1laugh:

----------


## gonejeepin

How many hour fast you gonna do, gonna cram it all in with a 23/1 ?

----------


## --->>405<<---

no i was thinking 16/8.. i really love to eat so i want to try and make it as painless as possible. i think i can get into a routine from 2100-1300 fast.. 

no cardio or lifting today.

----------


## mockery

> no i was thinking 16/8.. i really love to eat so i want to try and make it as painless as possible. i think i can get into a routine from 2100-1300 fast.. 
> 
> no cardio or lifting today.


what is your calorie count right now?

if you can still eat big after the gym or first work out but try and split your meals into 4 instead of 3 so every 2 hours in the 8 hour window. I suffered no muscle loss when doing fasted lifting While using 10g bcaa before and bridging every 2 hours after depending on my day/work/woman issues.

----------


## RaginCajun

> no i was thinking 16/8.. i really love to eat so i want to try and make it as painless as possible. i think i can get into a routine from 2100-1300 fast.. 
> 
> no cardio or lifting today.



check out lean gains dot com and go read your little heart out

----------


## --->>405<<---

im planning on 2700cals for workout days, 2300 for non workout days,

3 meals startn with PWO. one thing is i do my cardio at 0430 and then lift at 1200 so i wasnt sure what to do between. i suppose maybe bcaas post cardio every 2 hrs thru my workout. 

and i usually get very hungry after i lift! as a matter of fact im hungry rite now! i havent eaten and waiting til 1300 just to try it out. but i did sleep in til 1000 so it doesnt really count i suppose  :Smilie:

----------


## tbody66

sounds like a plan. I know you will let us know exactly how it goes.

----------


## mockery

yeah 2700 is doable in 3 meals. but for me that was the maximum 

i dont think u will need BCAA before or after fasted cardio. You will be OK. maybe 1g vitamin c to help fight the cortisol? Just take 10g BCAA before your work out at 12.

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh i think i take vit c anyways as part of my TRT regimen. will look into the cortisol thing. thats an area im not very well versed in as of yet.

----------


## AXx

Hey bro, I actually take bcaa's upon rising since I workout in morning around 9, then I take them directly after working out. They dont seem to be affecting the fast as far as I can tell. So from what I read you havent actually workout "hard" fasted yet, am I correct? If not your in for a treat. Its an amazing thing when you are actually stronger with no food on your stomach. Hope all goes well for ya.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Hey bro, I actually take bcaa's upon rising since I workout in morning around 9, then I take them directly after working out. They dont seem to be affecting the fast as far as I can tell. So from what I read you havent actually workout "hard" fasted yet, am I correct? If not your in for a treat. Its an amazing thing when you are actually stronger with no food on your stomach. Hope all goes well for ya.


yeh thx man. no i havent worked out fasted yet. i usually wake up at 0430 to do cardio so i will have been awake 7.5 hrs without food before i lift (NOON) and then ill have pwo/meal1 at 1300-1330  :Smilie:  about 1350cals!

----------


## AXx

Another thing its quite fun to stuff yourself, with 1200-1300cals in one meal, hell thats the reason I was fat (still am) because I lovd to stuff my face like a maniac.

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh i know ! me 2! i liked my big bowl of cereal before bed (like 1000cals and 300g carbs) and my vanilla ice cream and milk in a glass with 7 double stuff oreos crunched in !! man im gonna have to have one of those soon!

----------


## bikeral

^^ You are making me hungry :Haha:

----------


## milky01623

> yeh i know ! me 2! i liked my big bowl of cereal before bed (like 1000cals and 300g carbs) and my vanilla ice cream and milk in a glass with 7 double stuff oreos crunched in !! man im gonna have to have one of those soon!


Thanx man I'm starving!!!!!!!!
Enjoy

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well i was gonna do legs and cardio today but it looks like i mite be goin in boat with brother so i may just do cardio tonite and legs tomorrow..  :Smilie:

----------


## mockery

> Well i was gonna do legs and cardio today but it looks like i mite be goin in boat with brother so i may just do cardio tonite and legs tomorrow..


so really every day is arm day bra?

 :Smilie: 

hows the fasting going??

----------


## --->>405<<---

IF starts monday!  :Smilie: 

i did go from 0800 to 1530 today with no food and was pretty dang hungry! LOL

may be tuff at first but i havent set my mind to it yet too..

----------


## Razor

Whats IF, intermitted fasting?

----------


## Razor

> IF starts monday! 
> 
> i did go from 0800 to 1530 today with no food and was pretty dang hungry! LOL
> 
> may be tuff at first but i havent set my mind to it yet too..


I feel ya man, you can do it! Ill try and keep you motivated!

----------


## mockery

IF protocol is the best thing that happened to me since sliced Ezekiel bread

----------


## Razor

> IF protocol is the best thing that happened to me since sliced Ezekiel bread


I love Ezekiel bread. I try to tell everyone about it.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I feel ya man, you can do it! Ill try and keep you motivated!


Thx dude! Starts monday. Shootn for 6% bf.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> IF protocol is the best thing that happened to me since sliced Ezekiel bread


I hope infeel the same (although i do not like ezekiel bread)

----------


## --->>405<<---

Had a busy day. Went in boat. Tired. See yall tomorrow..

----------


## Razor

Keep up the good work!

----------


## 1tuffmudder

> Thx dude! Starts monday. Shootn for 6% bf.


hells ya brother nail down 6%, beast!

----------


## LiveFitBeFit

Ezekiel bread <3

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i tell u guys i had a great leg workout today! managed 405lbs on the squat for 2 sets x 8 reps.. also maxd out on the leg curl machine so im gonna have to figure something out there. i wonder where all this strength is coming from? 

another thing when i got done i was flexing in the mirror and it appears i am losing fat since startn this 2500cals everyday 300g pro, 200g carbs, 55(ish)g fat. and i was down 2 lbs on the scale. 

i dont know WHATS going on!  :Smilie: 

im eatn all my carbs in meals 1,2,3 and doing fasted cardio 4-5days per week.. must be working?

----------


## milky01623

> well i tell u guys i had a great leg workout today! managed 405lbs on the squat for 2 sets x 8 reps.. also maxd out on the leg curl machine so im gonna have to figure something out there. i wonder where all this strength is coming from?
> 
> another thing when i got done i was flexing in the mirror and it appears i am losing fat since startn this 2500cals everyday 300g pro, 200g carbs, 55(ish)g fat. and i was down 2 lbs on the scale.
> 
> i dont know WHATS going on! 
> 
> im eatn all my carbs in meals 1,2,3 and doing fasted cardio 4-5days per week.. must be working?


Nice one Bruv keep going whilst you're getting stronger

----------


## --->>405<<---

alright heres my diet starting monday IF:

*workout days: 2681cals, 314g pro, 225g carbs, 57g fat*

(1330) meal1: (PWO)
1 banana, 8oz 96%FF beef, 1/2cup brn rice, 3/4cup oats, green veg

(1730) meal2: 
12oz chikn breast, entire recipe blueberry oat pancakes, green veg

(2130) meal3:
3whole eggs, 8egg whites, 12oz 96%FF beef, green veg

(green veggies r not factored into macros or cals here..


*non-workout days: 2297cals, 343g pro, 65g carbs, 62g fat*

(1300) meal1:
10oz chikn breast, 6oz 96%FF beef, 1/3cup brn rice, green veg

(1700) meal2: 
10oz chikn breast, 6oz 96%FF beef, 3tbsp almond butter, green veg

(2100) meal3: 10oz chikn breast, 3whole eggs, 6 egg whites, green veg

obviously my workout days look a lot more fun than my non workout days. i dont know how im gonna fare on sunday being a nonworkout day and having to eat no carbs after meal1. well see.. worst case i eat the same on sunday as i do on workout days!

also green veggies r not factored into macros here either. 65g carbs comes from brn rice so that puts me 15g carbs over but what the hell!

----------


## gonejeepin

Looking forward to seeing your results with if sir.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Looking forward to seeing your results with if sir.


me2 my man!  :Smilie:  hope theyre positive!

----------


## mockery

i miss if already, especially with the bloat that has come back. i had ripped abs for 10 days! booya

----------


## Tx89

Subbed! You gonna Rock this man. You + IF = Killer combo :-)

----------


## AXx

Yeah you will do fine. I know my results arent miraculous but it's seems to work and yeah Mockery your right, the bloat from normal eating compared to IF is weird.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

I am looking over your IF plan and it seems that IF includes dramatically cutting out non veggies carbs on non workout days.
Seems the fat is about what you might eat on a regular cutting cycle or perhaps a bit lower. I am undertstanding this correctly. 

you consume my total daily calories at one IF Meal!!!! LOL

----------


## milky01623

I'll tell you what buddy if my weigh in isn't great you and steM better get ready to help cos om thinking of either carb cycling or IF lol
But everyone whom knows me says I've lost weight I don't think I have sometimes!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> i miss if already, especially with the bloat that has come back. i had ripped abs for 10 days! booya


i never had too much bloating. well maybe some  :Wink:  u dont get that with IF huh>




> Subbed! You gonna Rock this man. You + IF = Killer combo :-)


thx tx im looking forward to seeing what itll do!




> Yeah you will do fine. I know my results arent miraculous but it's seems to work and yeah Mockery your right, the bloat from normal eating compared to IF is weird.


im not looking for a miracle but some moderate forward progress would be great!




> I am looking over your IF plan and it seems that IF includes dramatically cutting out non veggies carbs on non workout days.
> Seems the fat is about what you might eat on a regular cutting cycle or perhaps a bit lower. I am undertstanding this correctly. 
> 
> you consume my total daily calories at one IF Meal!!!! LOL


yeh ggr keepn fat around 20% for workout days where i get carbs. i thought i was gonna get a good amt of carbs everyday but leave it to GB to spoil my plans! im glad i dont have ur BMR!! im hoping this is gonna be enuff food!




> I'll tell you what buddy if my weigh in isn't great you and steM better get ready to help cos om thinking of either carb cycling or IF lol
> But everyone whom knows me says I've lost weight I don't think I have sometimes!!!!!!!!!!


well milky chek ur bf% and post some pics. how long u been on ur diet? im sure SteM has u set up properly!

----------


## --->>405<<---

oh yeh weight today: 193lbs, bf% 7.97

i think im a pound or2 heavier than last week and last week bf was 7.92% ill double chek..

----------


## --->>405<<---

> well the end of week 3 winding to a close. been debating today whether to continue this carb cycle or change to maintenance with maybe some sort of carb cycle associated with it. 
> 
> weight and bf today: 191lbs 7.93%bf


yeh 2lbs up in weight and 0.04% increase in bf%

----------


## Brick

> yeh 2lbs up in weight and 0.04% increase in bf%


Hey 405 sorry if you've already answered somewhere in this thread but how do you get such precise bf%? I know how to do fat calibrations with the old school caliber but do you have an electronic device or....?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Hey 405 sorry if you've already answered somewhere in this thread but how do you get such precise bf%? I know how to do fat calibrations with the old school caliber but do you have an electronic device or....?


when u plug ur numbers into an online bf formula itll give u bf like: 15.87% (or what have u)

last week it was 7.93% this week 7.97% so:

7.97 - 7.93 = 0.04%  :Smilie: 

and this is dun with calipers.. 9site.

----------


## Brick

> when u plug ur numbers into an online bf formula itll give u bf like: 15.87% (or what have u)
> 
> last week it was 7.93% this week 7.97% so:
> 
> 7.97 - 7.93 = 0.04% 
> 
> and this is dun with calipers.. 9site.


I figured I was over thinking it and it was just some simple math haha thanks bud

----------


## milky01623

Hey there hulkster my bf gets done next Sunday and so does my weight
The diets bang on the mark thanks to steM and input from others what I mean is when I look in the mirror some days I see I've lost fat and others I don't did you feel like that at the start or is it just me?????
I will be 28 days in on Sunday

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Hey there hulkster my bf gets done next Sunday and so does my weight
> The diets bang on the mark thanks to steM and input from others what I mean is when I look in the mirror some days I see I've lost fat and others I don't did you feel like that at the start or is it just me?????
> I will be 28 days in on Sunday


yeh i had days like that for sure. the first 2 months was def the hardest physically and mentally. when u first start ur out of shape so the workouts suck and u see no results. i think thats why so many people dont make it past the first month or 2. just keep going and trust ur diet. dont listen to the voice in ur head  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well woke up this am and did 40mins fasted cardio. now all i have to do is make it til 1200 (workout) and then when im dun i can eat. hunger isnt too bad rite now. sucked having my coffee with no creamer. up til now thats been the worst thing!

----------


## --->>405<<---

WELL day one of IF is dun. i wouldnt say it was a piece of cake but it was pretty dang close! i liked it. bigger meals were good  :Smilie:  still have 1 to go. 

workout was good.. total body 3 sets per bodypart. 

tried 225lbs on flat bench to see how many i could do. got 17 reps so that sets the mark... figd id get 15 and was hoping for 20!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well meal 3:
3whole eggs, 8 egg whites , 8oz beef, 300g broccoli, 250g cottage cheese 
was a bit challenging to get down!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well day 2 IF. low carb day. not real happy about it either. was hoping to avoid low carb days which is why i considered IF. may try to come up with a difft eating plan that does not include low carb days. maybe lower carb days. ive been cycling carbs since february and am tired of it. maybe have 2 low days per week but i think 4 low days per week is more than i want to do ...

----------


## cue_artist

You can definitly decrease your protein intake and up your carbs a bit bro. I do that alot on days where I feel I need more carbs. For every 30 g of protein you go down , you go up 50 g with carbs

----------


## --->>405<<---

> You can definitly decrease your protein intake and up your carbs a bit bro. I do that alot on days where I feel I need more carbs. For every 30 g of protein you go down , you go up 50 g with carbs


thx for chekn in there cue  :Smilie:  yeh im eatn 225g carbs on workout days (which is fine) but im only getn 65g on non workout days (which i dont like). having cycled carbs for 6 months (or so) and having 3 days strait per week of veggies only im tired of it. im already lean. wouldnt mind being a bit leaner but i find myself desiring carbs from deep within (LOL) .. 

it wasnt til i started cycling them did i realize how much i like them! thinking maybe 225, 65, 225, 150, 225, 150, 65 or something like that.. might even just try 150 all 4 non workout days. 

maybe im just being a baby!  :Smilie:  waaa waaa ..

also curious to how u figured out the 50g carbs = 30g protein thing?

----------


## cue_artist

Its not something based on science . Its based mostly on experience and my trainer advise. I currently weigh 191 lbs and never go below 200 g of protein . So whenever i carb cycle on my high days i would stay at 200 g protein, medium carb days i would go for 230 g protein , and low days i would up the protein to 260 g of protein . My carbs are :

High : 300 g carbs 
Medium : 150 g carbs
Low : 75 g carbs

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Its not something based on science . Its based mostly on experience and my trainer advise. I currently weigh 191 lbs and never go below 200 g of protein . So whenever i carb cycle on my high days i would stay at 200 g protein, medium carb days i would go for 230 g protein , and low days i would up the protein to 260 g of protein . My carbs are :
> 
> High : 300 g carbs 
> Medium : 150 g carbs
> Low : 75 g carbs


gotcha! will have to keep this in mind. when ive cycled carbs i left protein and fat the same. u compete dont u? if so im curious to what u do when just "maintaining"? or do u never run maintenance?

----------


## cue_artist

> gotcha! will have to keep this in mind. when ive cycled carbs i left protein and fat the same. u compete dont u? if so im curious to what u do when just "maintaining"? or do u never run maintenance?


I am new to competing I only did one show in my country 1 year ago and will probably do some other shows in the US while getting my masters degree. Whenever I maintain I usually do 1 high carb day at 300g, 1 medium at 200 g, 1 low at 100 g, then I would repeat the cycle. Protein would be constant at 260g and would usually increase my fat intake by 1 serving on mediums days and 2 servings on low days. I take 3 g daily of fish oil on all days. My fat serving usually consists of 12 almonds that i would add on low and med carb days. I also do cardio 3 times a week 20 mins sessions using HITT style usually on my high days first thing in the morning

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ so u basically cycle carbs no matter what ur doing at the time: bulking, cutting, maintenance?

good info thx man  :Smilie:

----------


## cue_artist

UW bro, I usually carb cycle during the end of my cuts and when maintining. Whenever I bulk I would gradually introduce moderate amounts of carbs contantly in the beggining and then start to increase 50 g every 2 weeks till I reach my sweet point. I usually go for 8 weeks of bulking and 2 weaks of cutting.

----------


## mockery

keep you low day no training at 150g of carbs, and run your tdee for you work out days as usual. IF doesnt need carb cycling.

----------


## mockery

are you at or above 180lbs lbm? 405 ??

----------


## --->>405<<---

UW?

funny u mention 8 week bulk, 2week cut cuz after i finished my long cut from 22%bf down to 7.8% it took me 6months to do and then i went on a vacation and planned to run my first ever maintenance but due to the lengthy cut was kind of slack counting macros and ended up unintentionally bulking i think for about 8weeks. i ate 3000-3700cals per day (give or take), lifted 3 - 4 times per week and did NO CARDIO. at the end i had gained about 12-14lbs. so i decided to cut (which is what i just finished). it took about 3 weeks to get back to the same bf i was prior to starting the bulk except i weighed 10lbs more! 

so it seems what took me 2 months to put on bf% - wise only took me 3 weeks to get rid of + i now weigh 193 instead of 183 which is where i started! pretty happy about that! have considered maybe doing the same thing again to see what happens. never ate like that before when it was clean proper diet!

i call it my "unintentional bulk"  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> are you at or above 180lbs lbm? 405 ??


177-179lbs LBM

----------


## mockery

i was thinking today, **** all this bulk im just gonna diet down to 170 and be a jacked little 170lbs guy ha ha. Probably easier to run maintenance on that,

----------


## cue_artist

bro i have been following your thread from the beggining. Even though I dont post alot. I still read through this site every single day. You should be proud of all the progress that u have made bro. Its truely inspiring and motivating. Having members like you, GB, and some of the other people that have there progress threads pushes me to work harder every single day. Right now in my country its the holy month of ramadhan and every single day is a struggle for me with my diet. Whenever people break there fast down here its usually a table full of food and sweets of all kind. I have alot of poeple down here who think im crazy and tell me that I shouldnt live the life that im living, but in mind i say thats the life that i chose to live and I know people from all around the world who do the same. So having you guys in my life keeps me sane sometimes cuz i know that u guys have sacrificied alot of things in life too , for the sake of reaching your goals. I truely wish you all the best bro

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ hey man i appreciate it a lot! thx for takn the time to point that out  :Smilie:  it has been a heck of an adventure and ive learned a ton! still have a ton more to learn.. i dont think i couldve done it without this site and you guys on here. ive tried before but didnt know how much i didnt know! its nice to be able to impart what ive learned and experienced to others!

----------


## milky01623

^^^^^^% I for one is really pleased that you share this knowledge and I can honestly say that you and steM spur me on and inspire me to reach my goals
Thanx lads

----------


## gonejeepin

Fully agree with the above two posts, always willing to sacrifice your time to help others you don't even know, that's proper 405! Thanks ...... How's the first few fays of IF treating u?

----------


## bikeral

No cardio today?  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## mockery

> No cardio today?


hes is mr sleep in lately i think! haha

----------


## AXx

For what's its worth I like the look of your meals.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> ^^^^^^% I for one is really pleased that you share this knowledge and I can honestly say that you and steM spur me on and inspire me to reach my goals
> Thanx lads


ur welcome dude! glad to do it  :Smilie: 




> Fully agree with the above two posts, always willing to sacrifice your time to help others you don't even know, that's proper 405! Thanks ...... How's the first few fays of IF treating u?


thx jeep! IF = no problem! im digging the bigger meals and makin it to 1300 without food is a walk in the park! feel like (and look) im getting leaner little by little already. since i jumped from the carb cycle to maintenance and now this  :Smilie: 




> No cardio today?


none today no. did it yesterday on exercise bike at 1200 and the cool thing was it was still fasted cardio! i tell u another thing the exercise bike is no joke man!




> hes is mr sleep in lately i think! haha


u are correct sir! i had a 1300 start today so i got to sleep til 1000. since then ive lifted and come to work. havent eaten yet but am about to. not starving really either! lookn forward to a big meal with a bunch of carbs!




> For what's its worth I like the look of your meals.


thx 3js! i think im ditching the eggs in meal 3 cuz i often work late and eggs sitting in my car all day then reheated in the microwave are proving to be not so great!

thx for all the replies guys. i sleep in one day and everyone shows up! appreciate the encouragement!

----------


## mockery

i did cardio for teh first time since march, i think ill leave that for you  :Smilie:  #boring

----------


## --->>405<<---

> i did cardio for teh first time since march, i think ill leave that for you  #boring


 :Smilie:  hear ya! i went 2 months without it and only missd it a little bit ..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i got my 40mins am fasted cardio in this morning. nothing left to do today!  :Smilie:

----------


## bikeral

What's up bro. See you are up early today.

----------


## milky01623

> well i got my 40mins am fasted cardio in this morning. nothing left to do today!


Is that it bro 40 mins??????
What u playin at I've been up since 5am nearly done 10 hrs work and I've still got at least another 5 then I'll either go for a run or swing my bell goodness me
Nowt left to do!!!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> What's up bro. See you are up early today.


yeh had to get it in today man  :Smilie:  i skippd yesterday so im 3 for 4 this week so far! i actually enjoy it somewhat and know its burning fat (which i dont have alot of left so i know its a good thing to do) 




> Is that it bro 40 mins??????
> What u playin at I've been up since 5am nearly done 10 hrs work and I've still got at least another 5 then I'll either go for a run or swing my bell goodness me
> Nowt left to do!!!!!!


well milky i was up at 0530 and on the elliptical at 0545!

----------


## RaginCajun

> i did cardio for teh first time since march, i think ill leave that for you  #boring


try mountain biking for cardio, nothing boring about it!

----------


## milky01623

> yeh had to get it in today man  i skippd yesterday so im 3 for 4 this week so far! i actually enjoy it somewhat and know its burning fat (which i dont have alot of left so i know its a good thing to do)
> 
> well milky i was up at 0530 and on the elliptical at 0545!


We call it on the nest over here. Oooops think I've got that wrong;-/

----------


## --->>405<<---

> try mountain biking for cardio, nothing boring about it!


mite be fun cajun the only prob is i live in savannah ga (no mountains)  :Wink:

----------


## RaginCajun

> mite be fun cajun the only prob is i live in savannah ga (no mountains)


i lived in south louisiana and now live in the cement jungle of htown, and i still manage to find them!

----------


## Tx89

> mite be fun cajun the only prob is i live in savannah ga (no mountains)


Was there last summer on vacation. Next time I come say hi ;-)

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Was there last summer on vacation. Next time I come say hi ;-)


 :Smilie:  cool tx do it man!

----------


## --->>405<<---

another interesting take on IF. i am havn mexican tonite with pop in law and decided to skip 1/2 meal 2 and all of meal 3 to compensate. prob still be off on macros but it allots about 1300cals! thats a nice flexible thing  :Smilie:

----------


## gonejeepin

> another interesting take on IF. i am havn mexican tonite with pop in law and decided to skip 1/2 meal 2 and all of meal 3 to compensate. prob still be off on macros but it allots about 1300cals! thats a nice flexible thing


Seems like IF is a walk in the park for you compared to carb cycle, enjyoy that mexican!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Seems like IF is a walk in the park for you compared to carb cycle, enjyoy that mexican!


very much so and i did!  :Smilie:  thx

----------


## RaginCajun

so how are you liking the IF way of eating?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Modified IF Diet:

workout days: 2393cals, 304g pro, 207g carbs, 39g fat

meal 1: (PWO) 956cals, 122g pro, 88g carbs, 14g fat
10 oz chikn breast (bone in, skin and bone removed weight after cooking)
entire recipe blueberry oat pancakes (cup oats, cup eggwhites, cup cottage cheese, 140g blueberries)

meal 2: (1700)
12oz 96%FF beef
3/4 cup brn rice
green veg

meal 3: (2100)
12oz chikn breast (same as above)
1cup 2% cottage cheese
green veg

NON-workout days: 2220cals, 279g pro, 168g carbs, 49g fat

meal 1: (1300) 685cals, 76g pro, 83g carbs, 8g fat
10oz chikn breast
1 banana
cup oats
green veg

meal 2: (1700) 720cals, 78g pro, 66g carbs, 15g fat
12oz 96%FF beef
1/2 cup brn rice
green veg

meal 3: (2100) 815cals, 125g pro, 19g carbs, 26g fat
15oz chikn breast
cup 2% cottage cheese
2 tbsp almond butter (ground almonds basically)

and thats it. i did not factor in green veg macros or cals and the chikn is weighed after cooking cuz it has skins and bones when raw. (i like this way better than skinless, boneless. if i start gaining fat then ill re-evaluate)

----------


## RaginCajun

i may have to try what you have posted above but maybe lessen the carbs some and trade out rice for sweet pots.

----------


## gonejeepin

Just thought I'd stop by and drop a couple questions on you.

1. Any comments on the "a carb is a carb" thread?

2. Your thoughts on artificially sweetened drinks causing the same insulin response as sugar.

----------


## --->>405<<---

havent investigated diet soda and the like and its effect on insulin but i can tell u i drink 2-6 per day every day and have since i started my cut in october. hope that helps  :Smilie:

----------


## milky01623

> havent investigated diet soda and the like and its effect on insulin but i can tell u i drink 2-6 per day every day and have since i started my cut in october. hope that helps


I'm with you on that 405 I drink on average 1 1/2 lt - 2lt of diet pop (as us Brits call soda) per day

----------


## mockery

water water water!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> oh yeh *weight today: 193lbs, bf% 7.97*
> 
> i think im a pound or2 heavier than last week and last week bf was 7.92% ill double chek..


above was last sunday. 

results of first week of IF: 195.2lbs 8.3%BF

LBM last week: 177.62lbs
LBM this week: 179lbs

gained 1.38lbs LBM
gained 0.82lbs FAT

NOT what i was looking for! weird though cuz i "feel" leaner as ive said all week. my lower back fat went down but stomach, thigh, upper back went up

not sure what im gonna do. may give it another week, however knowing i may be getting fatter is not good motivation to continue. LBM gain or not... wll have to give it some thought.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> above was last sunday. 
> 
> results of first week of IF: 195.2lbs 8.3%BF
> 
> *LBM last week: 177.62lbs
> LBM this week: 179lbs
> 
> gained 1.38lbs LBM
> gained 0.82lbs FAT*
> ...


what where u expecting???

----------


## --->>405<<---

> what where u expecting???


well actually i didnt know what to expect but moreso a loss in bf and LBM to stay the same...

----------


## --->>405<<---

so anyways today is monday am and i am about to eat my food. at this point im thinking screw IF cuz i dont get my morning coffee and i gain fat. today ill be eating 3000 cals with about 300g carbs. my wife says its cuz im pissed about last week LOL. she may be rite! dunno what im gonna do now. 

shoot i may go on a short bulking diet again. when i was fat my direction was clear. now that im not i can pretty much do whatever. last time i ate 300g carbs per day it took me 8 weeks to gain about 12lbs or so and when i cut back to original bf% i still has 10lbs on me. maybe ill do it again now. 

either way im about to eat my dang blueberry pancakes because i want to  :Wink:

----------


## milky01623

> so anyways today is monday am and i am about to eat my food. at this point im thinking screw IF cuz i dont get my morning coffee and i gain fat. today ill be eating 3000 cals with about 300g carbs. my wife says its cuz im pissed about last week LOL. she may be rite! dunno what im gonna do now.
> 
> shoot i may go on a short bulking diet again. when i was fat my direction was clear. now that im not i can pretty much do whatever. last time i ate 300g carbs per day it took me 8 weeks to gain about 12lbs or so and when i cut back to original bf% i still has 10lbs on me. maybe ill do it again now.
> 
> either way im about to eat my dang blueberry pancakes because i want to


Once again my mouth is watering and I'm starving whilst you mention you're about to eat pancakes!!!!!!! Have you got CCTV in my truck?

Tell ya what dude you bulk cos if you look as good as you do in your avi with a 10lb increase how good will you look with another 10 ;-)

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Once again my mouth is watering and I'm starving whilst you mention you're about to eat pancakes!!!!!!! Have you got CCTV in my truck?
> 
> Tell ya what dude you bulk cos if you look as good as you do in your avi with a 10lb increase how good will you look with another 10 ;-)


i like the way u think milky! sit on my butt all day and eat carbs and do no cardio and lift 3-4x per week sounds pretty good!  :Wink:  maybe i can get my bench up to 365 or better. im shootn for 405 anyways at some point.

----------


## RaginCajun

being it was only a week, do you think that maybe your body was adapting to the change in eating, thus making you store some fat in areas that males store it?

----------


## bikeral

> so anyways today is monday am and i am about to eat my food. at this point im thinking screw IF cuz i dont get my morning coffee and i gain fat. today ill be eating 3000 cals with about 300g carbs. my wife says its cuz im pissed about last week LOL. she may be rite! dunno what im gonna do now. 
> 
> shoot i may go on a short bulking diet again. when i was fat my direction was clear. now that im not i can pretty much do whatever. last time i ate 300g carbs per day it took me 8 weeks to gain about 12lbs or so and when i cut back to original bf% i still has 10lbs on me. maybe ill do it again now. 
> 
> either way im about to eat my dang blueberry pancakes because i want to



Sounds like a plan. I had a nice double batch of protein pancakes with frozen blueberries yesterday.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> being it was only a week, do you think that maybe your body was adapting to the change in eating, thus making you store some fat in areas that males store it?


could be cajun. not getting my am coffee with creamer didnt help my decision  :Wink:  i couldve prob given it another week but i tell u i enjoy that am coffee! i suppose im waffling around rite now. like i said earlier when ur fat the direction is clear cut. rite now its a bit more gray. i wouldnt mind putting on another 10lbs LBM. 

long term i would not be happy without my coffee!  :Wink:  and i have to have creamer dammit!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Sounds like a plan. I had a nice double batch of protein pancakes with frozen blueberries yesterday.


yeh that makes for a good day!

another one of my fav meals is 1/2 cup (dry) brn rice and 8oz lean ground beef. i put it into a bowl and add some low sugar ketchup, garlic powder and tabasco. mix it all together and eat it with a spoon! awesome PWO meal! or anytime. kind of a red rice with meat deal.

that low sugar ketchup only has 25g sugar in the entire bottle.

----------


## bikeral

> yeh that makes for a good day!
> 
> another one of my fav meals is 1/2 cup (dry) brn rice and 8oz lean ground beef. i put it into a bowl and add some low sugar ketchup, garlic powder and tabasco. mix it all together and eat it with a spoon! awesome PWO meal! or anytime. kind of a red rice with meat deal.
> 
> that low sugar ketchup only has 25g sugar in the entire bottle.


Yea I like ground beef with brown rice. I usually just add hot sauce but I'll give this a try.

----------


## RaginCajun

> could be cajun. not getting my am coffee with creamer didnt help my decision  i couldve prob given it another week but i tell u i enjoy that am coffee! i suppose im waffling around rite now. like i said earlier when ur fat the direction is clear cut. rite now its a bit more gray. i wouldnt mind putting on another 10lbs LBM. 
> 
> long term i would not be happy without my coffee!  and i have to have creamer dammit!!!



hahahaha! it took me a while to get use to not eating in the AM, prob 2 months. i just do splenda in coffee and sometime splurge with a lil vanilla creamer.

----------


## RaginCajun

> yeh that makes for a good day!
> 
> another one of my fav meals is 1/2 cup (dry) brn rice and 8oz lean ground beef. i put it into a bowl and add some low sugar ketchup, garlic powder and tabasco. mix it all together and eat it with a spoon! awesome PWO meal! or anytime. kind of a red rice with meat deal.
> 
> that low sugar ketchup only has 25g sugar in the entire bottle.



where i am from, we call that dirty rice!

----------


## --->>405<<---

dirty rice is good dude! other than pancakes its my fav meal! sometimes i have it twice in a day!

well had a good chest/bi workout today. managed 275 x 7 reps and prob couldve gotten 8 but i had no spotter. had a great pump going on and did some cable flyes with no shirt on in front of the mirror! hit it hard today! chest was on fire by the end!

----------


## bikeral

You guys always make me hungry. Dirty rice reminds me of Bojangles. I spent a week at Research Triangle Park NC a few years ago and had this almost every day.

----------


## digsy1983

sounds like your minds set for the BULK??!! you've cut down to 8%BF and now debating bulking back up for lean gains, would you if had the chance to go from 12%BF then bulk up to roughly the lean weight that you want or would you still do it how you've done it with the 8%BF?
i'm pondering when i should bulk, according to calipers and internet site i'm at 13.67 BF%. i've been losing weight now for best part of 18 months and getting sick of it so now fancy a gud lean bulk and just a break from cutting. was thinking about reaching 12% then bulking (just so i know i can reach 12%).

----------


## gonejeepin

Go for the bulk, chase down that 405 bench you want! I'm sure you could do it without your bf% getting out of control.

----------


## --->>405<<---

have u tried cycling ur carbs digsy?

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## --->>405<<---

> Go for the bulk, chase down that 405 bench you want! I'm sure you could do it without your bf% getting out of control.


thx man  :Smilie:  i dont know if ill get it this time but if i could hit 365 or 375 id be good. ill cut when i get to 10% (ish) or whenever i feel too fat! LOL

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## milky01623

New avi dude? Lookin good
Still trying to get a pic done lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

> New avi dude? Lookin good
> Still trying to get a pic done lol


yeh i get bored with the same one easily  :Smilie:

----------


## AXx

Still loving IF brother?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Still loving IF brother?


nah gave it up. gained 2lbs. was tryin to cut bf% and not gonna give up my am coffee with creamer to gain weight and fat. i can do that without IF!  :Smilie:  maybe some other time when i have more patience.. i learned a bit in the short time (1week) i did it. good enuff.

now im doing a 4-8week bulk. (im hungry and wanna eat :Wink: )

----------


## AXx

> nah gave it up. gained 2lbs. was tryin to cut bf% and not gonna give up my am coffee with creamer to gain weight and fat. i can do that without IF!  maybe some other time when i have more patience.. i learned a bit in the short time (1week) i did it. good enuff.
> 
> now im doing a 4-8week bulk. (im hungry and wanna eat)


I understand man. Good luck

----------


## mockery

> thx man  i dont know if ill get it this time but if i could hit 365 or 375 id be good. ill cut when i get to 10% (ish) or whenever i feel too fat! LOL


you have evolved into a woman. Yes those lululemon pants make your ass fat! , its not the pants though, its your ass!!

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## digsy1983

> have u tried cycling ur carbs digsy?


Not carbs cycled to any great degree. I'm contemplating it, but also thinking about a bulk. I've droped a load of excess weight and I'm happy with the results but not as lean as id like so i know im gona have to drop more bf but im kinda missing having a bit of bulk after years of being 105kg +. im just trying to figure out when best to bulk up. i still wana reach the 12%bf target so in no great hurry.

gud avi pic aswel bud! all that fasted cardio looks good on you!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> you have evolved into a woman. Yes those lululemon pants make your ass fat! , its not the pants though, its your ass!!


LOL...




> Not carbs cycled to any great degree. I'm contemplating it, but also thinking about a bulk. I've droped a load of excess weight and I'm happy with the results but not as lean as id like so i know im gona have to drop more bf but im kinda missing having a bit of bulk after years of being 105kg +. im just trying to figure out when best to bulk up. i still wana reach the 12%bf target so in no great hurry.
> 
> gud avi pic aswel bud! all that fasted cardio looks good on you!


i dont know where ur at now but cycling carbs could have the effect ur looking for. if u have been strait dieting for months and getting tired i undertand but this is where the carb cycle kicked it up a notch for myself!

and thx  :Smilie:

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## --->>405<<---

workout went well. 

heres what i think im gonna do:

mon: chest/bi
tue: back/shoulders/tri
wed: legs/traps
thu: chest/bi
fri: back/shoulders/tri
sat: legs/traps
sun: off

now time for angel hair pasta, tomato sauce (homemade), ground beef (PWO) yes!

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## mockery

> workout went well. 
> 
> heres what i think im gonna do:
> 
> mon: chest/bi
> tue: back/shoulders/tri
> wed: *arms*/traps
> thu: chest/bi
> fri: back/shoulders/tri
> ...


modification in bold.

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## --->>405<<---

> modification in bold.


funny fellow  :Smilie:

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## digsy1983

yeah ive been thinking about going down the rout of carb cycling to get down to 12%bf. im just trying to fathom when would be best to bulk? i think if i got to a point of looking ripped i prob wouldnt wana lose the gains in the mirror and bulk. ive never done the cut and bukk thing before and i dont wana be wasting time or effort doing it at the wrong time. 
so if you were aound 14%bf and you know what you know now, what stage would you look to bulk seen as you want to bulk now?

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## --->>405<<---

> yeah ive been thinking about going down the rout of carb cycling to get down to 12%bf. im just trying to fathom when would be best to bulk? i think if i got to a point of looking ripped i prob wouldnt wana lose the gains in the mirror and bulk. ive never done the cut and bukk thing before and i dont wana be wasting time or effort doing it at the wrong time. 
> so if you were aound 14%bf and you know what you know now, what stage would you look to bulk seen as you want to bulk now?


thats easy: 8-10% = bulk

anything over 12% = cut

just my opinion. if i were u id cut to 10% then run maintenance AND enjoy being lean for awhile (and u will enjoy it) and then take ur time with the bulk. once u get down to 10(ish) and say bulk to 12-14(ish) itll be a lot easier to get back. 

cycling the carbs IMO will prove to be ur best bet. 

if u need help i can help u.  :Smilie:

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## digsy1983

Excellent mate cheers!!! I was thinking bout cut to 12 then bulk to max of 15 then cut again. but think ill give the carbs cycle a good go especially after the good hype you've given it. Even cutting I'm still gaining lean muscle so it's not like its a dead end!

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## mockery

the carb cycling was nice, with the addition of the 3 day depletion and fasting. alot going on but shit gave me abs in under 3 weeks from 23% bodyfat. , mind you they are gone now that i am bulking. still up 5lbs from when i started IF protocol with 7-8% less body fat... the depletion work out really opened my eyes on how much water our muscle store with the carbs

405 i think with what we have learned about tdee, it should be scrapped and look at 7 day weekly numbers. and base off RMR testing, since it can be a huge difference for each person.

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## --->>405<<---

^^ yeh mock im still trying to orient myself with the numbers. after using katch for so long its hard to reprogram my brain  :Smilie: 

the UD2.0 gives u numbers: total bodyweight x 14-16 (14 slow metab, 15 normal, 16 high) then u create a 50%deficit.. but thats a whole other deal than a typical carb cycle. although its prob the one i will use exclusively until/unless i find something more effective. although the carb load is a big pay off each week!

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## mockery

intresting i just 195x 14 and got 2730. im eating around 2750-3000 a day every day just for maintenance and im gaining alot of weight . im not working right now so just cardio and the gym 5 days a week. clean the house and bbq, Im glad i didnt jump into my bulk at 3300 like i was planning to.

2930 or something is suppose to be my maintenance.

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## --->>405<<---

whats ur bf%?

im also 195

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## mockery

> whats ur bf%?
> 
> im also 195



15ishi have a ways to go before im hitting 180lbm. haha

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## Papiriqui

Hey hey hey, how you been bud!! I see this thread gets bigger and better by the day!!! Just dropping by to see how you doing  :Wink:

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## --->>405<<---

> Hey hey hey, how you been bud!! I see this thread gets bigger and better by the day!!! Just dropping by to see how you doing


good Pap! funny i was thinking bout u this morning  :Smilie:  how u been? whatcha been up to?

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## RaginCajun

hey 405, check out my thread when you have a chance and check out my diet. thanks

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## --->>405<<---

will do cajun. legs went well. and traps  :Smilie:  + my big angel hair pasta PWO was awesome! I LOVE PASTA!

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## mockery

> will do cajun. legs went well. and traps  + my big angel hair pasta PWO was awesome! I LOVE PASTA!


ripptoe has a video on doing heavy shrugs as an assistance exersice to the deadlift.

1 session of those will have you only doing traps 1x a week or bi weekly and they will grow twice as fast.

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## ghettoboyd

looking good bro, that new avy pic shows some definite bf loss so keep on keepin on brother...just wanted to check in...

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## --->>405<<---

ripptoe? send me a pm ill chk it out

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## --->>405<<---

> looking good bro, that new avy pic shows some definite bf loss so keep on keepin on brother...just wanted to check in...


 :Smilie:  thx bro! yeh im actually bulking now for 8 weeks. gonna try to put on about 15lbs and then drop back to current bf% and hopefully weigh 10lbs more than i do now.. maybe then ill be happy (NOT) LOL..

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## ghettoboyd

> thx bro! yeh im actually bulking now for 8 weeks. gonna try to put on about 15lbs and then drop back to current bf% and hopefully weigh 10lbs more than i do now.. maybe then ill be happy (NOT) LOL..


thats funny you say that cus i tell people all the time that what drives me is to never be satisfied, always strive for more...

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## Brick

Hey 405. Was reading about one of your meals, someone called it dirty rice, so I decided to try it out, well my results were garbage. I read your post as X grams of rice (dry) as measuring it out and eating it dry. Boy was I wrong. I got half way through the crunchy mess before throwing it out and starting a new! Made the real version with cooked rice and LOVED it.

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## --->>405<<---

> Hey 405. Was reading about one of your meals, someone called it dirty rice, so I decided to try it out, well my results were garbage. I read your post as X grams of rice (dry) as measuring it out and eating it dry. Boy was I wrong. I got half way through the crunchy mess before throwing it out and starting a new! Made the real version with cooked rice and LOVED it.


LOLOLOL!!! sorry dude! i just wanted to specify the serving size of rice accurately. naturally after i measured it i cookd it! LOL its one of my fav meals and a great PWO meal IMO...

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## --->>405<<---

so im bulking again and figd to be thorough id post my current diet (eaten every day):

3131cals
310g pro
359g carbs
53g fat

meal1: (0700)
blueberry oat pancakes (140g blueberries, 1C cott cheese, 1C oats, 1C egg whites)

meal2: (PWO, 1300)
8oz 96%FF beef, 4oz angel hair (barilla plus whole wheat), homemade tomato sauce

meal3: (1530)
blueberry oat pancakes (same as above)

meal4: (1800)
8oz 96%FF beef, 1/2C brn rice (dirty rice), green veg

meal5: (2000)
8oz chikn breast, 1C cottage cheese + sug free strawberry preserves + 1 medium banana (mixed into cottage cheese), green veg <--- and yes i know the banana is sugar and its before bed but i dont give a crap it tastes good and ill burn the fat off when i cut dammit!!!!!!!!!!!  :Smilie: 

and tomato sauce isnt factored into macros either: see above reference to banana!

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## RaginCajun

looks good to me! have you thought about cycling carbs to bulk? someone mentioned this somewhere. just a thought

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## milky01623

That looks a sound meal plan dude 
Can't wait till I can bulk and eat food again instead off cardboard lol
Btw I put a pic up pls take a look

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## Brick

> LOLOLOL!!! sorry dude! i just wanted to specify the serving size of rice accurately. naturally after i measured it i cookd it! LOL its one of my fav meals and a great PWO meal IMO...


Ya man! Before I realized I made it wrong in my head I was saying 'how the F does he choke this down so often?!?' 

But I measure my rice uncooked as well to know the kcal, man that's gotta be one of my more dimwitted moments!

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## RaginCajun

> Ya man! Before I realized I made it wrong in my head I was saying 'how the F does he choke this down so often?!?' 
> 
> But I measure my rice uncooked as well to know the kcal, man that's gotta be one of my more dimwitted moments!



hahahahahaha! ask TimesRoman about chucking down rice!

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## GirlyGymRat

:Welcome:

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## Brick

> hahahahahaha! ask TimesRoman about chucking down rice!


I'll have to hit TR up about that story

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## Papiriqui

> good Pap! funny i was thinking bout u this morning  how u been? whatcha been up to?


Pretty good man, had a little vacation last week on the beach of pure relaxation!!! Have a left forearm still with issues and new development right wrist also with issues. So this week i started 3 HIIT sessions of 30 mins in the morning and abs except wednesday leg day and 3 HIIT sessions of 20 mins in the afternoon to get back on track on the few pounds i gained as well to let my arms heal with no exercise..... Hopefully in a couple months i should be as lean as a flag pole LOL

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## Papiriqui

> ripptoe has a video on doing heavy shrugs as an assistance exersice to the deadlift.
> 
> 1 session of those will have you only doing traps 1x a week or bi weekly and they will grow twice as fast.


I am interested in this as well, love big delts and wouldnt mind getting them bigger  :Wink:

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## bikeral

Hola 405 donde estas hoy?

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## bikeral

嘿405今天你在哪里？

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## bikeral

Hey 405, wo es Ihnen heute?

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## mockery

> I am interested in this as well, love big delts and wouldnt mind getting them bigger


i can send you the link, but if you have the bodybuilder mentality it wont be something u will like. If you are open minded and don't mind adding in strength assistant exercises then it might be for you. Its also not for a beginner or even novice lifter.. you have to have a well developed shoulder girdle before doing these. They hurt, they make you strong, they make you grow... but yeah if you start them too soon you will in a world of hurt.

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## Brick

> i can send you the link, but if you have the bodybuilder mentality it wont be something u will like. If you are open minded and don't mind adding in strength assistant exercises then it might be for you. Its also not for a beginner or even novice lifter.. you have to have a well developed shoulder girdle before doing these. They hurt, they make you strong, they make you grow... but yeah if you start them too soon you will in a world of hurt.


What kind of weights/size would you suggest being before partaking in said routine?

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## mockery

its not a routine, just a exercise the way shrugs were intended for. if you have a couple years of solid training u should be fine.

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## --->>405<<---

> Hola 405 donde estas hoy?


Yo estaba ocupado en el trabajo el hombre!




> 嘿405今天你在哪里？


我是忙碌的工作今天花花公子！




> Hey 405, wo es Ihnen heute?


Ich war damit beschäftigt, arbeiten heute dude!

היי אל אולי כדאי להתחיל לתקשר ככה כל הזמן האיש מה לעשות U חושב?

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## --->>405<<---

had a good chest/bi workout today by the way. this is the first time ive gone heavy with chest twice in the same week in awhile! had a personal best as well:

flat bench (after warm-up):
135 x 10
185 x 5
225 x 3
275 x 8 (best by 1 rep)
295 x 4 (havent rep'd this b4)
275 x 6

incline:
225 x 8
245 x 6
225 x 8 
225 x 6

plus i did some decline/cable fly supersets (20reps)

felt good!

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## bikeral

> Yo estaba ocupado en el trabajo el hombre!
> 
> 
> 我是忙碌的工作今天花花公子！
> 
> 
> Ich war damit beschäftigt, arbeiten heute dude!
> 
> *היי אל אולי כדאי להתחיל לתקשר ככה כל הזמן האיש מה לעשות U חושב?*


Siz insan var

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## --->>405<<---

تمہیں پتہ نہیں تھا میں نے کئی زبانوں پر ایک ماہر تھا، تم نے کیا تھا اللہ تعالی ہے؟

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## bikeral

> تمہیں پتہ نہیں تھا میں نے کئی زبانوں پر ایک ماہر تھا، تم نے کیا تھا اللہ تعالی ہے؟


Я б ніколи не здогадалися, я думав, що все бодібілдери були повільними.  :Wink/Grin:

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## --->>405<<---

Thats дивний. Whoever сказав я будівельник тіла?

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## Tx89

Obviously google translator doesnt know "dude", so im gonna help u out. In German dude = alta ;-)

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## Brick

My post workout meal today after legs. 


200g extra lean ground beef, 120g rice(measured dry, eaten COOKED!), handful broccoli, small handful green/yellow peppers, iceberg lettace, pickled jalapeños and 4 small sun dried tomatoes 

A lot better then the uncooked version!

Unsure about the calories from jalapeños and sun dried tomatoes and if I should bother putting them into my macros or not, what you figure?

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## --->>405<<---

> Obviously google translator doesnt know "dude", so im gonna help u out. In German dude = alta ;-)


LOL.. thx TX  :Wink: 




> My post workout meal today after legs. 
> 
> 
> 200g extra lean ground beef, 120g rice(measured dry, eaten COOKED!), handful broccoli, small handful green/yellow peppers, iceberg lettace, pickled jalapeños and 4 small sun dried tomatoes 
> 
> A lot better then the uncooked version!
> 
> Unsure about the calories from jalapeños and sun dried tomatoes and if I should bother putting them into my macros or not, what you figure?


looks and sounds good! the jalapenos i wouldnt worry about and the sun dried tomatoes would depend on whether theyre in EVOO or not? def wouldnt hurt to count them depending how many u use.

FYI: sundried tomatoes (1 cup): 139cals, 8g pro, 30g carb, 2g fat (not in EVOO)

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## Papiriqui

> i can send you the link, but if you have the bodybuilder mentality it wont be something u will like. If you are open minded and don't mind adding in strength assistant exercises then it might be for you. Its also not for a beginner or even novice lifter.. you have to have a well developed shoulder girdle before doing these. They hurt, they make you strong, they make you grow... but yeah if you start them too soon you will in a world of hurt.


I never mind trying new things, worst that can happen is it doesnt work for me or i dont like it LOL but the shoulders and delts are very well developed and most of the time i cant move my neck for 3 days of how hard i hit them. I'm just interested since it might be better then what im doing, also i have quite a few years in the gym so no problem there. Send me the link if you could. Thanks

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## milky01623

> i can send you the link, but if you have the bodybuilder mentality it wont be something u will like. If you are open minded and don't mind adding in strength assistant exercises then it might be for you. Its also not for a beginner or even novice lifter.. you have to have a well developed shoulder girdle before doing these. They hurt, they make you strong, they make you grow... but yeah if you start them too soon you will in a world of hurt.


Could I possibly have the link dude 
I like doing delts and have pretty strong shoulders too
Anyways I could do with a bit of size :-)

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## milky01623

Yo yo yo ma bruva from anover motha check out me pics pls

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## RaginCajun

Waiting on ya to critique my diet in my thread.

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## --->>405<<---

> Waiting on ya to critique my diet in my thread.


Sorry dude! ILL chk it out tomorrow.  :Smilie:  rite now its time for boobus

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## RaginCajun

> Sorry dude! ILL chk it out tomorrow.  rite now its time for boobus


I love boobs!!!!!

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## milky01623

> Sorry dude! ILL chk it out tomorrow.  rite now its time for boobus


Boobus?????

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## mockery

Intresting read, Frank zane didnt bulk, and he carb cycled 3 days low carbs, 1 day refeed .. rince and repeat and his training was a 3 day split 1 day off.. repeat. so his low carb days fell on his work out days. So he was doing depletion work outs twice a day. never went over 3000 calories and off season he would stay with in 5% weight of his show weight of 185lbs so that is just under 195 off season weight.

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## --->>405<<---

> I love boobs!!!!!


me 2 cajun!




> Boobus?????


bed  :Smilie:  (what i called it when i was a little fella.. boobus




> Intresting read, Frank zane didnt bulk, and he carb cycled 3 days low carbs, 1 day refeed .. rince and repeat and his training was a 3 day split 1 day off.. repeat. so his low carb days fell on his work out days. So he was doing depletion work outs twice a day. never went over 3000 calories and off season he would stay with in 5% weight of his show weight of 185lbs so that is just under 195 off season weight.


what did u read mock?

----------


## mockery

just older published articles with franke zane in the 60's and 70's

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## --->>405<<---

well i have a fair amt of info to post so i think ill do it in 2 posts. first thing-yesterday:

yesterday was awesome! i took the day off and after blueberry oat pancake breakfast decided to take my mom and dad out for lunch with my wife and daughter. so we went to carabbas and i had cheese sticks, bread with evoo/herbs, whole pizza with pepperoni, mushroom, ital sausage, and sweet tea. then later i had a cinnabon cinnamon roll with xtra white gooey stuff and choc milk. then when i got home later that evening i had 1/2 rack smoked baby back ribs. then i finished it off with my usual cottage cheese and strawberry preserves with sliced banana.  :Smilie:  i figure it at about 5000-6000cals yesterday. no guilt either!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Originally Posted by --->>405<<--- 
oh yeh weight today: 193lbs, bf% 7.97 *<--- 2 weeks ago*



results of first week of IF: 195.2lbs 8.3%BF * <---- last week*

LBM last week: 177.62lbs
LBM this week: 179lbs

gained 1.38lbs LBM
gained 0.82lbs FAT


*THIS WEEK:* (first week bulk results)

*197.8lbs 8.67%bf*

LBM 2weeks ago: 177.62 lbs
LBM last week: 179 lbs
LBM this week: 180.65 lbs

gained 1.65lbs LBM
gained 0.95lbs fat

2week LBM increase: 3.03lbs
fat increase 2 week: 1.77lbs

ill take it!  :Smilie:  the real tale teller will be next week!

also one observation ive made (and with only 1 week not much of an observation). 

doing IF for 1 week i gained 1.62lbs LBM and 0.82 lbs fat eating around 2700cals

1 week bulk i gained 1.65lbs LBM and 0.95lbs fat eating 3200cals

i suppose technically u could call IF more of a lean gain  :Wink:  (but i get 500 more cals bulking + my am coffee.. a fair trade IMO! )

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## digsy1983

gud increases in the LBM department!! you noticed any change in strength yet?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> gud increases in the LBM department!! you noticed any change in strength yet?


yeh i am getting stronger every workout..

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## Brick

> well i have a fair amt of info to post so i think ill do it in 2 posts. first thing-yesterday:
> 
> yesterday was awesome! i took the day off and after blueberry oat pancake breakfast decided to take my mom and dad out for lunch with my wife and daughter. so we went to carabbas and i had cheese sticks, bread with evoo/herbs, whole pizza with pepperoni, mushroom, ital sausage, and sweet tea. then later i had a cinnabon cinnamon roll with xtra white gooey stuff and choc milk. then when i got home later that evening i had 1/2 rack smoked baby back ribs. then i finished it off with my usual cottage cheese and strawberry preserves with sliced banana.  i figure it at about 5000-6000cals yesterday. no guilt either!


You've mentioned evoo to me before, what is it?

Oh god are those cinnamon rolls UNREAL or what? I had my first one a few weeks ago after our 3d/4d ultrasound. Mmmm!!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

EVOO: extra virgin olive oil  :Smilie: 

yes cinnamon rolls r the shiznit!  :Wink:

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## GirlyGymRat

just stopping in and checkin on you....cinnamon rolls...what's this about cinnamon rolls....a low fat low carb cinnamon roll...please tell me there is such a thing and it doesn't taste like carb board.........pls!!!!!!!

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## 1tuffmudder

Wow bro your day sounds like a great cheat day. Might have to have one myself after reading that.

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## Brick

> EVOO: extra virgin olive oil 
> 
> yes cinnamon rolls r the shiznit!


OoooOoOoo! Thanks!

----------


## gonejeepin

Looks like the bulk is going well, nice lbm gains!

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## --->>405<<---

> just stopping in and checkin on you....cinnamon rolls...what's this about cinnamon rolls....a low fat low carb cinnamon roll...please tell me there is such a thing and it doesn't taste like carb board.........pls!!!!!!!


no GGR it was Cinnabon! cheat day.. (yes an entire day of cheating LOL!!)




> Wow bro your day sounds like a great cheat day. Might have to have one myself after reading that.


yeh it was awesome dude! just ate what i wanted and didnt care! a luxury afforded by the logic "im bulking man!"  :Wink:  LOL




> Looks like the bulk is going well, nice lbm gains!


yes thx dude! going well for sure!

----------


## RaginCajun

just a question to throw at ya. how long do you think it takes the body to adhere to a certain lifestyle? since you have been switching it up every week or two, do you think that your body is responding better because of the frequent changes? oh and another thing, still waiting!!!!!!!!! hahaha

----------


## Papiriqui

Nice results buddy. Keep up the inspiration!!! Great job!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> just a question to throw at ya. how long do you think it takes the body to adhere to a certain lifestyle? since you have been switching it up every week or two, do you think that your body is responding better because of the frequent changes? oh and another thing, still waiting!!!!!!!!! hahaha


Lyle MacDonald suggests for cutting running an 8 week cycle then 2 weeks maintenance. then 8week again if necessary. bulking he suggests starting at 10%bf and going to 15%bf then cutting. personally i will cut before i get to 12%.. prob 10%..




> Nice results buddy. Keep up the inspiration!!! Great job!!


thx pap!

----------


## RaginCajun

thanks 405 for the input. i re-worked it and came up with some new numbers. let me know what you think when you get a chance

----------


## --->>405<<---

bout to do chest/bis/abs gonna use muscleink's ab routine. i gotta get em going!  :Smilie: 

405.....here's my routines. Usually 3 exercises, 3x a week. All superset

Cable crunches (120 lbs). 6 sets; 20-25 reps 
Incline crunches (35lb plate) 6 sets; 20 reps
Leg raises 10 sets, 30 reps
Back extensions (25 lbs) 6 sets 20 reps
Russian twist (25lb plate) 6 sets 20 reps
V-sit 6 sets 25 reps
Incline medicine ball toss (12-15lbs) 6 sets 25 reps

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## --->>405<<---

decent day at the gym. nothing really major occurred. did try out incline close grip bench for tris and like it. 

also did wide grip weighted chins. too much strain on the shoulders and switched back to neutral grip

----------


## Brick

Just read your recipe that called for oats blended dry until powder. Makes my shakes way smoother! Thanks!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i woke up this am and weighed 196.0 LOL.. sunday i was 197.8.. i have been noticing i have to get up and pee in the middle of the night here lately sometimes twice. i wonder if increasing carbs to 360g per day has caused me to hold some water and ive been getting rid of it? so much for last weeks gains ... i may have to increase cals.. poss to 3500 i suppose.. thatd be a 300cal increase. ill wait and see where im at sunday to make a decision..

----------


## RaginCajun

your prob right with the water/carb thing. you look 'fuller' in your new avi

----------


## --->>405<<---

back to 197 and change today  :Smilie:  water is a funny thing!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i tell u what guys (and gals) i hammered it out today during legs/traps!

supersetting: squat, leg extension, leg curl, calf raise (standing), shrug

squat:
135 x 10
225 x 5
315 x 8
365 x 6
365 x 6
405 x 6 (best)
405 x 6 (best)
455 x 3 (best)
455 x 3 (best)

without a doubt i can squat 500lbs rite now. ill get it done soon to prove it!

----------


## Brick

> well i tell u what guys (and gals) i hammered it out today during legs/traps!
> 
> supersetting: squat, leg extension, leg curl, calf raise (standing), shrug
> 
> squat:
> 135 x 10
> 225 x 5
> 315 x 8
> 365 x 6
> ...


For the supersets did you mean squat ss with leg extension, calf raise ss with shrugs?

----------


## digsy1983

if you carry on with the gains you're going to have to change ya name to >>505<<!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> For the supersets did you mean squat ss with leg extension, calf raise ss with shrugs?


no i mean i supersetted all 5 exercises back to back to back to back to back...

----------


## --->>405<<---

> if you carry on with the gains you're going to have to change ya name to >>505<<!!!


LOL.. yeh i wish! the 405 is for the bench! 60lbs to go and itll be mine!

----------


## digsy1983

no probs dude, you'll smash it soon enough!!

----------


## Brick

> no i mean i supersetted all 5 exercises back to back to back to back to back...


One word. MONSTER!

----------


## Tx89

Good shit brotha! What stance you using when squatting? For me it makes a Lot of difference when it comes to strength.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Good shit brotha! What stance you using when squatting? For me it makes a Lot of difference when it comes to strength.


 :Smilie:  dont know if im doing a correct stance or not i just always put the weight on my shoulders and squat! LOL

feet slightly wider than shoulder width, toes pointed slightly out... seems i am stronger this way than toes pointing strait ahead and/or narrower stance..

----------


## baseline_9

> no i mean i supersetted all 5 exercises back to back to back to back to back...


That's called a 'giant set' bro....


Lookin good... Nice to see the gains... LBM vs FM

----------


## Tx89

I dont think theres a correct or incorrect stance in general, just different ones that work for different People and their bodies :-)
I like to squat the same way as you! If u wanna move even more weight try a slightly broader stance like 150% shoulder width. More glute activation can work wonders :-)

----------


## --->>405<<---

> That's called a 'giant set' bro....
> 
> 
> Lookin good... Nice to see the gains... LBM vs FM


thx a lot man! good to know on the giant set  :Smilie:  i tell u i sure do enjoy eatn 3200cals every day! prob another 6 weeks depending how i go then maybe cut. i have a new addition plan to the end of my cut a guy i know from work uses for contest prep. hes a pro.. im stoked! gonna be hard to maintain patience until then!




> I dont think theres a correct or incorrect stance in general, just different ones that work for different People and their bodies :-)
> I like to squat the same way as you! If u wanna move even more weight try a slightly broader stance like 150% shoulder width. More glute activation can work wonders :-)


ok cool! ill give that a go! i tell u with the 455lbs the tuffest part to me was standing up and backing up as well as re-racking the weight. the squat part really wasnt too hard!

----------


## Tx89

I feel the same on heavy squats man, down is fairly easy, but overcoming the dead point Down there and get back up is hardest.
Glutes really help a Ton in this and are strong fkers, squat and deadlift really improved After I learned how to use them properly!
Let me know how it goes for u :-)

----------


## Brick

> thx a lot man! good to know on the giant set  i tell u i sure do enjoy eatn 3200cals every day! prob another 6 weeks depending how i go then maybe cut. i have a new addition plan to the end of my cut a guy i know from work uses for contest prep. hes a pro.. im stoked! gonna be hard to maintain patience until then!
> 
> ok cool! ill give that a go! i tell u with the 455lbs the tuffest part to me was standing up and backing up as well as re-racking the weight. the squat part really wasnt too hard!


Try turning around. So when you unrack you walk backwards when you have the most juice. Then when you are done your last rep you take two small steps forward and force it into the rack. I did it safer that way too

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I feel the same on heavy squats man, down is fairly easy, but overcoming the dead point Down there and get back up is hardest.
> Glutes really help a Ton in this and are strong fkers, squat and deadlift really improved After I learned how to use them properly!
> Let me know how it goes for u :-)


thx man ill do it! and yes deads are something i said today in the gym ive got to incorporate into my routine. i did em for a little while but backed off cuz i dont wanna hurt my back. i never have hurt my back i just def dont want to  :Smilie: 




> Try turning around. So when you unrack you walk backwards when you have the most juice. Then when you are done your last rep you take two small steps forward and force it into the rack. I did it safer that way too


yeh thx dude thats how i do it  :Smilie:  id hate to try to re-rack backing up!

----------


## Brick

> thx man ill do it! and yes deads are something i said today in the gym ive got to incorporate into my routine. i did em for a little while but backed off cuz i dont wanna hurt my back. i never have hurt my back i just def dont want to 
> 
> yeh thx dude thats how i do it  id hate to try to re-rack backing up!


I used to do it backing up but stopped cuz once I got into bigger weights it got scary going
Backwards!

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok its the weekly sunday weigh-in bf% chek again  :Smilie:  i will paste last week's post below and then modify the time references and then post this weeks results below it:


Originally Posted by --->>405<<--- 
oh yeh weight today: 193lbs, bf% 7.97 <--- 3 weeks ago



results of first week of IF: 195.2lbs 8.3%BF <---- 2 weeks ago

LBM last week: 177.62lbs
LBM this week: 179lbs

gained 1.38lbs LBM
gained 0.82lbs FAT


*LAST WEEK: (first week bulk results)*

197.8lbs 8.67%bf

LBM 2weeks ago: 177.62 lbs
LBM last week: 179 lbs
LBM this week: 180.65 lbs

gained 1.65lbs LBM
gained 0.95lbs fat

2week LBM increase: 3.03lbs
fat increase 2 week: 1.77lbs

ill take it! the real tale teller will be next week!


*THIS WEEK:*

199.8LBS 8.78%BF

182.26LBS LBM 17.45LBS FAT

GAINED: 1.61LBS LBM

GAINED: 0.3LBS FAT

thats 4.64lbs LBM gain in 3 weeks and 2.07lbs fat

69%LBM gain
31%fat gain 

so i only gained 1/3 the amt of fat this week compared to last week and about the same amount of LBM  :Smilie:

----------


## gonejeepin

Great results! How's the strength coming along?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Great results! How's the strength coming along?


strength continuing to increase. lookn forward to a good week this week. will be week 3 of bulk and if i count the 1 week of IF itll be week 4. gonna keep rolling until i become too unhappy with my bf%. (which i dont think will take a lot)  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

good chest/bis/abs workout today. got 315 on the bench for 3 (almost 4)! happy with that. shooting for 4 next week!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well first thing in the am weigh-in = 200.0lbs

7 down/10 more to go then cut! :Smilie:

----------


## milky01623

> well first thing in the am weigh-in = 200.0lbs
> 
> 7 down/10 more to go then cut!


Makin some good progress dude gaining in strength and lbm quality

----------


## --->>405<<---

at 680cals
68g pro
76g carbs
11g fat

(not including the tomato sauce cuz ive been a bit lazy)

IMO this is my best PWO meal ive found! i am super stoked at the results of this bulk so far! this being my first intentional bulk ever!

my squat has gone up at least 100lbs and my bench has gone up 40lbs and this is only week 4. 

275 on the bench is my "new 225". i dont even do 225 anymore for any of my work sets. 

i got 315 x 4 today with not much difficulty. personal best! monday i only got it for 3 reps. next week im going for 365 on bench as a new max and 500 on the squat. 

Im pumped!!!

with 4 weeks left on this bulk (as long as i dont get too fat  :Wink: ) i am gonna shoot for attaining my 405lbs bench goal! we'll see how i do next week on the 365. stay tuned..  :Smilie:

----------


## milky01623

> at 680cals
> 68g pro
> 76g carbs
> 11g fat
> 
> (not including the tomato sauce cuz ive been a bit lazy)
> 
> IMO this is my best PWO meal ive found! i am super stoked at the results of this bulk so far! this being my first intentional bulk ever!
> 
> ...


You'll reach your 405 before the end of this bulk of that I'm sure :-)
Now can you tell me some traps exercises pls

----------


## -KJ-

Well since ive been on here last your transformation is once again inspirational.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> You'll reach your 405 before the end of this bulk of that I'm sure :-)
> Now can you tell me some traps exercises pls


THX BUDDY! (MATE  :Wink: )

Traps:
shrug barbell
shrug smith machine
shrug dumbell
cable shrug (what i do and like a lot). i do one side at a time. use the cable crossover machine. drop the cable to the floor.add weight. pick it up with one hand and either grab the top of the machine (if u can) or hold the other hand behind ur head. shrug.. up quikly.. hold and squeeze. down slowly..

i usually do 4 work sets progressively heavier and hit em twice per week. traps are a weak point in my physique and theyre coming along nicely from this exercise alone.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Well since ive been on here last your transformation is once again inspirational.


hey thx man! good to see u!  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## digsy1983

ya doing well, especially with minimal BF gains! are you set on calling it a day ater 10lbs mark or are you going to carry on until 10 or 12% BF then cut back down?

----------


## --->>405<<---

prob 210lbs. depends more on how i look and feel rather than what the calipers tell me. (and how close i am to 405 by then  :Wink: )

----------


## Bodacious

Dang man good job on the bulk. I keep reason.g your post and it helps me just reading yours. Did u get a chance to loom at my thread on my cut before and after pics?? 

I just not sure about a bulk after losing it and going crazy putting it back on. I dunno about that lol...

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Dang man good job on the bulk. I keep reason.g your post and it helps me just reading yours. Did u get a chance to loom at my thread on my cut before and after pics?? 
> 
> I just not sure about a bulk after losing it and going crazy putting it back on. I dunno about that lol...


glad i can help man! i have not lookd at ur pics will chk them out  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Just thought I'd pop in say hi!

Hi!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Just thought I'd pop in say hi!
> 
> Hi!


HEY BUDDY! whats up? how much longer til u get internet? hows the move going? settling in? business? workouts? diet? etc..  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Another 2 weeks before I get proper Internet access! 

House is good, everything settled just need that shop premises real soon else we won't open this year.

Barely trained the last 5 weeks and have 14lbs or so to lose now. Need a proper kick up the arse!

----------


## RaginCajun

> Another 2 weeks before I get proper Internet access!
> 
> House is good, everything settled just need that shop premises real soon else we won't open this year.
> 
> Barely trained the last 5 weeks and have 14lbs or so to lose now. Need a proper kick up the arse!


Good to hear from ya stem. 

Hope everything works out!

I'll give ya swift kick, I need one myself!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Another 2 weeks before I get proper Internet access! 
> 
> House is good, everything settled just need that shop premises real soon else we won't open this year.
> 
> Barely trained the last 5 weeks and have 14lbs or so to lose now. Need a proper kick up the arse!


dang it man! 14lbs in 5 weeks! sounds like u have been doin some eatin dude! look forward to ur return!  :Smilie:  stayn pretty busy in here!  :Smilie:  ive been bulking and will prob be ready for a cut by the time u get back.

----------


## mockery

whats your personla opinion on cottage cheese before bed during a bulk as i know you have said before "no dairy"

----------


## -KJ-

Im seriously impressed and inspired by you over the last year 405... 

Just hoping I can follow suit  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

*LAST WEEK:*

199.8LBS 8.78%BF

182.26LBS LBM 17.45LBS FAT

*THIS WEEK:*

199.8lbs 9.32%bf

181.18lbs LBM 18.62lbs *FAT*

this means i gained 1.17lbs fat and lost 1.17lbs LBM LOL.. needless to say i dont like this weeks results at all. i did eat a bit more freely but i dont understand the fact that i didnt gain any weight but my bf% increased.. with results like this it will not take long for me to start cutting i can promise u that. ill go another week and see what happens but i think a cut is in my future. 

my biggest increase was in the lower back. it went from 13mm to 18mm in 1 week.. this will not continue..  :Madd:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> whats your personla opinion on cottage cheese before bed during a bulk as i know you have said before "no dairy"


actually mock i have cottage cheese before bed every nite whether im bulking or cutting (except low carb days on carb cycle).. i may try it out and see later down the road if eliminating it has any effect.




> Im seriously impressed and inspired by you over the last year 405... 
> 
> Just hoping I can follow suit


thx KJ  :Smilie:  u can man u just have to do it  :Smilie:

----------


## Doug350SD

405, I have spent the last week reading your entire log. Congrats to you on the dedication and nonstop commitment. I do have to say that you have more than given multiple people the incentive to push harder including myself. I also am overly impressed with the instant support and continued help from many of the other forum members. This has definatly given me the feeling that this forum is the right one to be a part of. keep up the great work and thanks again for your hard work, look forward to getting advice from many of you in the near future...

----------


## mockery

my low carb days will be consisting of actual carbs this time not just 50 from veggies. so looks like cottage cheese is gtg for me

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 405, I have spent the last week reading your entire log. Congrats to you on the dedication and nonstop commitment. I do have to say that you have more than given multiple people the incentive to push harder including myself. I also am overly impressed with the instant support and continued help from many of the other forum members. This has definatly given me the feeling that this forum is the right one to be a part of. keep up the great work and thanks again for your hard work, look forward to getting advice from many of you in the near future...


Thx dude! This forum is awesome for sure! Stick around. Itll be in ur best interest! 

And congrats on reading my entire thread. That is a feat in itself and mustve required a fair amt of dedication!  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> my low carb days will be consisting of actual carbs this time not just 50 from veggies. so looks like cottage cheese is gtg for me


Yeh on UD2.0 lyle says carb sources doesnt matter much on low days that 50g in itself is sufficient to force glycogen depletion when combined with workouts. However i am gonna stick to veggies due to quantity and the fact that im very anal when i cut!  :Smilie:

----------


## digsy1983

> my low carb days will be consisting of actual carbs this time not just 50 from veggies. so looks like cottage cheese is gtg for me


why actual carbs (assuming complex carbs) and not veggies?

----------


## mockery

> why actual carbs (assuming complex carbs) and not veggies?


*3 fold*

1.) ease of life. 100g broccoli is 5 carbs , so 100g x 10 is not practical for me.

2.) I need the energy and the glycogen fuel for my brain, and i am already over training. so any and all complex carb source i can get right now will help ALOT.

3.) cutting cycle so im keeping my carb intake higher to help keep blood sugar and lipid profiles a bit more balanced.

----------


## mockery

> *LAST WEEK:*
> 
> 199.8LBS 8.78%BF
> 
> 182.26LBS LBM 17.45LBS FAT
> 
> *THIS WEEK:*
> 
> 199.8lbs 9.32%bf
> ...


Keep in mind that if you are not anabolic , your lbm during a bulk will be very little. U can only gain so much .. so fast. so in times where you are maxed out the reality is you will gain fat at a faster rate. If you break it down each week like this it will do your head in,

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> this means i gained* 1.17lbs fat and lost 1.17lbs* LBM LOL.. needless to say i dont like this weeks results at all. *i did eat a bit more freely* but i dont understand the fact that i didnt gain any weight but my bf% increased.. with results like this it will not take long for me to start cutting i can promise u that. ill go another week and see what happens but i think a cut is in my future. 
> 
> *my biggest increase was in the lower back*. it went from 13mm to 18mm in 1 week.. this will not continue..


could be water retention. i drink at least 50 ounces of water at the gym during cardio and my clothes are tighter when i leave from the water bloat....

if i follow the plan, i loose. a little deviation from my plan and i call it maintenance  :Big Grin: 

i was going to eat something bad, now i am gonna eat a salad with chicken and no dressing - thanks for the inspiration  :Smilie: 

next week will be different!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Keep in mind that if you are not anabolic, your lbm during a bulk will be very little. U can only gain so much .. so fast. so in times where you are maxed out the reality is you will gain fat at a faster rate. If you break it down each week like this it will do your head in,


yeh im giving it one more week then cutting. i feel fat anyways LOL.. its been a good run. 




> could be water retention. i drink at least 50 ounces of water at the gym during cardio and my clothes are tighter when i leave from the water bloat....
> 
> if i follow the plan, i loose. a little deviation from my plan and i call it maintenance 
> 
> i was going to eat something bad, now i am gonna eat a salad with chicken and no dressing - thanks for the inspiration 
> 
> next week will be different!!!


glad to be of assistance ggr!  :Smilie:  the weird thing is my total body weight is the exact same as last week! ill give it one more week then im prob gonna cut.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well this starts week 5. i must say im less motivated this week after last weeks results but im gonna ta a week to shift my train of thought back into cutting mode. regardless of outcome this week i will be cutting next monday.

----------


## naenae85

Don't have to wait till next Monday to cut  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Don't have to wait till next Monday to cut


hey naenae!  :Smilie:  

ur rite i dont have to.. but it takes a little mental prep for me.. running 4days of zero carbs + 2 total body glycogen depletion workouts is something i have to prepare for. its a pretty brutal schedule. also ill be doing am fasted cardio 5days per week. 

rite now im getting 400g carbs and doing no cardio! a big shift!

i wanna enjoy one more week of being fat and lazy!  :Wink:

----------


## bikeral

What's up bro. Still at it I see. New avi looking good.

----------


## Back In Black

> dang it man! 14lbs in 5 weeks! sounds like u have been doin some eatin dude! look forward to ur return!  stayn pretty busy in here!  ive been bulking and will prob be ready for a cut by the time u get back.


I haven't counted cals in 6 weeks and eaten pretty much what I want. Ugly truth of the scales is actually about 20lbs to lose!!!!!!!!

Giving myself just over 8 weeks to remove it. Needless to say, I started counting cals again today!!

----------


## bikeral

> I haven't counted cals in 6 weeks and eaten pretty much what I want. Ugly truth of the scales is actually about 20lbs to lose!!!!!!!!
> 
> Giving myself just over 8 weeks to remove it. Needless to say, I started counting cals again today!!


Hey Stem we miss you around here. Hopefully you will have a cut log associated with this 20lb loss  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ looks like were both gonna be cutting  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> What's up bro. Still at it I see. New avi looking good.


hey man good to see u! u still on vacation or u back?

----------


## bikeral

> hey man good to see u! u still on vacation or u back?


I am back and ready to go!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I am back and ready to go!


good deal AL! ill be back on the cardio/cutting diet with u next monday! 

now *GET TO IT!*  :Chairshot:

----------


## -KJ-

> good deal AL! ill be back on the cardio/cutting diet with u next monday!


So whats the stats now 405 and whats the plan with the cut??

----------


## --->>405<<---

200lbs 9.3%bf 

UD2.0

3.5day low/nocarb
30hr 6000cal refeed
2days deficit moderate carb
repeat
until i stick (prob around 7.8%BF)

then
days 1-5: no/lowcarb
day 6&7: 800g carbs
repeat

2x per day cardio on this cycle hopefully to 5%bf (maybe 4 weeks) 

prob an 8week cut.. then ill prob take 2 weeks at maintenance then bulk again who knows!

----------


## -KJ-

Will definitely be subscribed for that plan.. 

Kicks off next Monday am I right?

----------


## --->>405<<---

yep next monday!  :Smilie:

----------


## < <Samson> >

> 200lbs 9.3%bf


Nice!

Hey bro, I'm straight going for your stats. You seem to have a quite similar physique to myself. No crazy bad ass abs at even a low Bf%. I don't care too much though, I just want the rest of me to look solid too.

Gl, bro! Keep on the track of just getting better with time.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Nice!
> 
> Hey bro, I'm straight going for your stats. You seem to have a quite similar physique to myself. No crazy bad ass abs at even a low Bf%. I don't care too much though, I just want the rest of me to look solid too.
> 
> Gl, bro! Keep on the track of just getting better with time.


thx dude.. good luck and we are here for u  :Smilie:  

p.s. im working on the abs. its one area i never worked and im gonna try and change em up a bit!  :Smilie:

----------


## < <Samson> >

> thx dude.. good luck and we are here for u  
> 
> p.s. im working on the abs. its one area i never worked and im gonna try and change em up a bit!



Awwe, thanks. . lol

But yeah, I am starting to concentrate on abs also. It just seems so genetic, I see people that never workout abs and just have a gnarly 8 pack.

Not to be a douche, but what are the rest of your stats? Bicep size, waist size and age.

Also how long have you been at "it" hard?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Awwe, thanks. . lol
> 
> But yeah, I am starting to concentrate on abs also. It just seems so genetic, I see people that never workout abs and just have a gnarly 8 pack.
> 
> Not to be a douche, but what are the rest of your stats? Bicep size, waist size and age.
> 
> Also how long have you been at "it" hard?


yeh theyre lucky fcukers  :Smilie: 

bicep: 16.75"
waist: 32"-35" (depending)
37 yrs old
been at it hard for 10months

----------


## < <Samson> >

Thanks a lot bro, seriously damn near the same as me - 20 pounds of lardy goodness. You just got 5 years on me.  :Smilie:

----------


## naenae85

Haha enjoy the week. 400g of carbs? Woh I'm gaining weight thinking about it

----------


## gonejeepin

Looking forward to watching your progress with the cut, good luck, and looking pretty beast in the new avi.

----------


## milky01623

Dude nice avi btw 
Who takes all the photos?

----------


## --->>405<<---

I do. With the same app i told u to get  :Wink: 

Ispybot for iphone...

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Haha enjoy the week. 400g of carbs? Woh I'm gaining weight thinking about it


LOL.. U think thats a lot naenae when i start my cutting diet i will eat 1300g carbs in 30hrs for my refeed!

Thats not a typo either (1300g)  :Wink:

----------


## Brick

> LOL.. U think thats a lot naenae when i start my cutting diet i will eat 1300g carbs in 30hrs for my refeed!
> 
> Thats not a typo either (1300g)


What would you say the advantages are of your depletion, no carbs, refeed diet over say, what I am doing, 60/20/20 (morning/around workouts for carbs)? Is your stricter diet more designed to help propel into the 9,8,7 etc bf% whereas at a higher bf % (20) the body responds just fine to the low carb/ calorie deficit?

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ exactly.. When cutting IMO (and in Lyle MacDonalds opinion which is way more important) it is always better to do the simplest approach. For someone at higher bf% (16% or above) a standard cutting diet should work just fine. When u get lower and progress stalls it is then time to implement a more sophisticated/complex approach becaue the body doesnt like being at a low bf%. 

this is where the carb cycle comes into play. There are many styles/forms of carb cycles. UD2.0 is the one ive found to work best for me. 

Also IMO running strait low carb at the offset will leave room in the future when a potential plateau arrives to implement the carb cycle which hopefully should push the person thru the plateau and continue in the cutting process.

Leaving area for tweaking IMO is a good idea so that u have ammo if/when a plateau is reached. 

At 20% bf u should have no prob cutting fat with a standard approach and IMO cycling carbs then is premature.

----------


## Brick

^^okay that is what I though. Simple approach with higher bf and more advanced to crush plateaus!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> ^^okay that is what I though. Simple approach with higher bf and *more advanced to crush plateaus!*


not only can it help break thru a plateau but also when u get lower in body fat it becomes tuffer to lose it cuz ur body wants to hang onto it. ur body sees low body fat as a threat. the lower it is the more likely (as far as ur body is concerned) u are to starve to death! 

ur body doesnt know u can just go to the mac donalds drive thru!  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

oh yeh i almost forgot.. i tried 365 on the bench today and failed! felt weaker today when i did 315 warming up.. kinda had a feeling i wasnt gonna get it.. had it about halfway and thought i had it and then got hit with reality! sucked!

i would like to note my diet yesterday and the day before sucked. i had cheat meal sunday and didnt really eat alot after it and then yesterday didnt eat all my food and ventured out of the diet a bit and had 2 sandwiches. they were good! dont ever eat them. wonder if this mite have affected my performance?

if i cant get it friday then ill just have to wait til after i cut. unless i can get it while cutting which would be cool!

----------


## Brick

Sometimes I wish I would starve instead of having the option for those drivethrus!

----------


## Brick

Hey 405, if I'm low on my protein intake but close to my maxes in carbs and fats what's a good source of protein rich food besides whey (and low in C and F)

Also, I like to eat cottage cheese at night for my last meal. Should I incorperate these carbs into my daily allowance?

Thanks on advance as always for the good advice

----------


## Back In Black

Mate, do you live anywhere near Quitman in GA?

----------


## milky01623

SteM will you stop popping up like a jack in a box r u back full on yet?

----------


## Back In Black

> SteM will you stop popping up like a jack in a box r u back full on yet?


Nope! And my names not Jack. And it's been a long time since I was in a box!!!!!

I'm about here and there at the minute, I'll be visiting your thread too. If I still recognise you!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Mate, do you live anywhere near Quitman in GA?


300km from there. why?

----------


## milky01623

> Nope! And my names not Jack. And it's been a long time since I was in a box!!!!!
> 
> I'm about here and there at the minute, I'll be visiting your thread too. If I still recognise you!!!


Please do you'll still recognise me lol

Hey 405 it's about time this friendly face was back what dya think?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Please do you'll still recognise me lol
> 
> Hey 405 it's about time this friendly face was back what dya think?


yeh i miss my buddy..  :Smilie:

----------


## milky01623

> yeh i miss my buddy..


Gee thanx an here's me thinking we're pals

----------


## milky01623

> yeh i miss my buddy..


Gee thanx lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Gee thanx an here's me thinking we're pals


u and SteM are both my pals  :Smilie:  my 2 english mates! funny cuz my mom is british. one of these days ill be coming over there to chek out le tour de france. maybe we can meet up somewhere. thatd be interesting..

----------


## milky01623

> u and SteM are both my pals  my 2 english mates! funny cuz my mom is british. one of these days ill be coming over there to chek out le tour de france. maybe we can meet up somewhere. thatd be interesting..


That my friend from over the pond would be immense and more than likely a really good laugh
I'm up for it

----------


## Back In Black

> 300km from there. why?


I just read its illegal for a chicken to cross the road in that town!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> That my friend from over the pond would be immense and more than likely a really good laugh
> I'm up for it


ur rite. me 2. i dont know if SteM is quite that adventurous  :Wink: 




> I just read its illegal for a chicken to cross the road in that town!


yeh ive heard chicken jay walking has become a real problem down there! LOL

----------


## bikeral

who is this guy *stem* that pops in here from time to time?

----------


## milky01623

> who is this guy stem that pops in here from time to time?


Al I thin k he must be a dedicated follower of fashion as the songs lyrics go 
They seek him here. 
They seek him

----------


## bikeral

I keep looking out for his drive by posts.

----------


## milky01623

^^^^^^ u and me both lol

----------


## Back In Black

Is he in Hell?

----------


## GirlyGymRat

^^^i thought he was taking a photo of this new tum to change his avi :P

is 405 a code like 007 (bond, james bond)?

----------


## Brick

> ^^^i thought he was taking a photo of this new tum to change his avi :P
> 
> is 405 a code like 007 (bond, james bond)?


Lol I think it's his bench goal

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Lol *I think it's his bench goal*


ding ding ding!

legs/traps today.

this may complete my bulk. i may go to the gym again tomorrow for a total upper body workout. monday is cut day! i cant wait.

of course ask me how im liking it at 0430 when im doing cardio or wednesday evening when i havent had a carb for 3 days and still have 24 hrs to go and u mite not like the answer!  :Wink: 

id also like to note i havent gained any weight in 2 weeks

----------


## --->>405<<---

legs went ok. 405 squat for 3 or 4 sets x 6 i cant remember. heavy legs r dun for a little while..

----------


## Back In Black

Mate, get some 20 rep breathing squats in your arsenal! Brutal!

Bulking not for you then?

----------


## < <Samson> >

Crazy shit bro, we will be damn close to the same size here shortly. Yet, you lift right at double of what I do.

Making me feel weak man.

I would blow my guts out even thinking about squating that weight. Every few squat workouts I do 225 and that's it. But, typically I do like 185 15-20x real low.

----------


## Live for the PUMP

> legs went ok. 405 squat for 3 or 4 sets x 6 i cant remember. heavy legs r dun for a little while..


Nice!

----------


## Live for the PUMP

> Crazy shit bro, we will be damn close to the same size here shortly. Yet, you lift right at double of what I do.
> 
> Making me feel weak man.
> 
> I would blow my guts out even thinking about squating that weight. Every few squat workouts I do 225 and that's it. But, typically I do like 185 15-20x real low.


Bro if you can do 185 x 20(real low), surely you could do say 275 x 4-6 reps...

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Mate, get some 20 rep breathing squats in your arsenal! Brutal!
> 
> Bulking not for you then?


breathing squat?

bulked for 5 weeks. gained about 8-10lbs.. dont like having fat on me so its time to cut! well see how i fare when i get back to my original bf%..

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Crazy shit bro, we will be damn close to the same size here shortly. Yet, you lift right at double of what I do.
> 
> Making me feel weak man.
> 
> I would blow my guts out even thinking about squating that weight. Every few squat workouts I do 225 and that's it. But, typically I do like 185 15-20x real low.


yeh i cant go real low cuz of my knee.. thighs parallel is as far as i go

----------


## < <Samson> >

Maaaan, I feel weak. . . lol


I just look swoled up. . . . ha ha ha

----------


## Back In Black

> breathing squat?
> 
> bulked for 5 weeks. gained about 8-10lbs.. dont like having fat on me so its time to cut! well see how i fare when i get back to my original bf%..


Same as me on the fat, hate it.

My interpretation of the breathing squat is 10 reps to failure. Then each subsequent rep take as many breaths as you need inbetween reps to ensure you can do the next one. Total of 20. Kind of a rest pause technique, without the rest!

----------


## Brick

> Same as me on the fat, hate it.
> 
> My interpretation of the breathing squat is 10 reps to failure. Then each subsequent rep take as many breaths as you need inbetween reps to ensure you can do the next one. Total of 20. Kind of a rest pause technique, without the rest!


That was my definition of rest pause?

----------


## digsy1983

sounds like fainting material!!!

----------


## Back In Black

> That was my definition of rest pause?


You're not racking the weight inbetween reps so there's officially no rest in the truer sense of the word.

----------


## Brick

> You're not racking the weight inbetween reps so there's officially no rest in the truer sense of the word.


Ah okay. I was doing my rest pause how you do them. Don't rack the weight and jus breathe until you are ready. Just a breathing pause no rest! Kills

----------


## GirlyGymRat

405 , can u check out post 629...thx!!! 
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...60#post6150260

----------


## --->>405<<---

well today the bulking diet ends and the cut begins manana!! 

time to get to work!

----------


## Brick

> well today the bulking diet ends and the cut begins manana!!
> 
> time to get to work!


Hey man is your current avi you? Why no more spybot!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Hey man is your current avi you? Why no more spybot!


1. yes me..

2. dont follow..

----------


## bikeral

Looking good in that avi  :Wink:

----------


## milky01623

> 1. yes me..
> 
> 2. dont follow..


Dude tell him lol
He thinks it's current

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Looking good in that avi


thx buddy ive been hittin it hard!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Dude tell him lol
> He thinks it's current


LOL well i currently made it my avi so i guess hes rite  :Smilie:

----------


## Brick

> LOL well i currently made it my avi so i guess hes rite


Lol. Quite the transformation. 

Don't you use ispybot to take picture?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Lol. Quite the transformation. 
> 
> Don't you use ispybot to take picture?


thx yeh.. ispybot yes..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Diet days 1-3.75

1474cals
271g pro
65g carbs 
23g fat

6egg whites
20oz chikn breast
16oz beef
1200g broc

0430 fasted cardio. See yall manana

----------


## < <Samson> >

Studly Avi, man. . . lol

Geez, amazing results man!

----------


## milky01623

Morning slim 
I've posted my new workouts pls take a look and give me feed back thanks 
Milky

----------


## --->>405<<---

> *Studly Avi*, man. . . lol
> 
> Geez, amazing results man!


 :Smilie:  thx dude! 






> Morning slim 
> I've posted my new workouts pls take a look and give me feed back thanks 
> Milky


done it  :Smilie: 

well this am started as a failure. did no cardio cuz i slept like crap! no biggie. will just do some tonite maybe if i get off work early enuff and tomorrow am.. diet has begun.

----------


## RaginCajun

same here 405, must have been something in the air, didnt't sleep well either.

----------


## --->>405<<---

must be.. im usually a good sleeper!

----------


## milky01623

You need to leave your good lady alone and sleep dude ;-)

----------


## --->>405<<---

> You need to leave your good lady alone and sleep dude ;-)


LOL.. funny fellow!

well depletion workout 1 is dun and it was just as miserable as i recall! will try for cardio tonite but im not gonna lose sleep if i miss it for today..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well day 1 is done. i must say it was a piece of cake for the diet. i wasnt really hungry all day. basically ate cuz i needed to. ud think with 1500cals and no carbs other than broc itd been a bit tuffer! 

tomorrow am definite fasted cardio. itll be my first one in 5 weeks!

----------


## Brick

> well day 1 is done. i must say it was a piece of cake for the diet. i wasnt really hungry all day. basically ate cuz i needed to. ud think with 1500cals and no carbs other than broc itd been a bit tuffer!
> 
> tomorrow am definite fasted cardio. itll be my first one in 5 weeks!


Gotta love am fasted cardio! Keep it up man

----------


## --->>405<<---

well day 2 done and totally depleted. (or very close :Smilie: )

weight down 5lbs this am from yesterday due to depletion. will prob be lower than that tomorrow. having to go to bed by 2100 now so i can get at least 7hrs sleep for am fasted cardio. 

def will enjoy some carbs thurs nite. nothing like not having any carbs to remind one how much u like em. only took 48hrs!

----------


## Brick

> well day 2 done and totally depleted. (or very close)
> 
> weight down 5lbs this am from yesterday due to depletion. will prob be lower than that tomorrow. having to go to bed by 2100 now so i can get at least 7hrs sleep for am fasted cardio.
> 
> def will enjoy some carbs thurs nite. nothing like not having any carbs to remind one how much u like em. only took 48hrs!


Wish I knew what 9pm bed times were! Usually 0230 to 0400 for me

----------


## mockery

since its Halloween time , go get yourself a bane mask and start taking your pictures with it :P

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Wish I knew what 9pm bed times were! Usually 0230 to 0400 for me


ive found 2100 bed time is not only nice but also necessary to wake up at 0430 and do cardio and still feel good the next day!




> since its Halloween time , go get yourself a bane mask and start taking your pictures with it :P


ur not from the US mock? did u hear about the dude that dressed up like this guy (Bane i think) and killed like 10-15 people at the movie "the dark Knight rises"??

----------


## --->>405<<---

day 3 of 1500cals drawing to a close. i tell u it has been a bit of a challenge today dealing with eating less than half the cals im used to LOL.. drank a bunch of 32oz bottles of water to fight hunger. 

manana pm is the beginning of my carb load PWO! lookn forward to it  :Smilie: 

after this 4 weeks of ud2 im gonna shift it to a 5/2 split with 5 days of meat and veggies only then 2 day carb load at 800g per day. those 5 days no carbs is gonna be interesting esp with 2x per day cardio (work sched permitting)

----------


## mockery

Oh, that's ****ed up!  :Frown:  I don't watch tv

----------


## bikeral

Just noticed you have an anniversary coming up. I'll send you a cake.  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Just noticed you have an anniversary coming up. I'll send you a cake.


red velvet is my fav!  :Wink: 

and i didnt get one last yr cuz i was* FAT*!!

----------


## Back In Black

> Just noticed you have an anniversary coming up. I'll send you a cake.


Ha ha, we'll all send him cake. He can go from before to after to before again!!!

----------


## milky01623

> Ha ha, we'll all send him cake. He can go from before to after to before again!!!


I'm on it lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

> ha ha, we'll all send him cake. *he can go from before to after to before again*!!!


*no!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

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## --->>405<<---

counting down the time til my pre wo carbs! about 1.5hrs to go..!!

----------


## RaginCajun

> Ha ha, we'll all send him cake. He can go from before to after to before again!!!


hahahaha!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well oatmeal with protein powder and a banana never tasted so good! (except last time, and the time before that, and the time before that!)

----------


## SlimmerMe

well well......ever 55 thousand views! Incredible!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> well well......ever 55 thousand views! Incredible!


hey Slim! always happy to see u girl  :Smilie:  hope ur doing well!

----------


## --->>405<<---

oh yeh i almost forgot! HIT workout went great! strength was good. carb loading as we speak!

----------


## discus

omg just went threw some of your post, dude great job on your progress even more on b4 and after pixs.
im very impress and wanna make sure i really try as hard as you.
why do everything i love to eat has to be bad lol.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> omg just went threw some of your post, dude great job on your progress even more on b4 and after pixs.
> im very impress and wanna make sure i really try as hard as you.
> *why do everything i love to eat has to be bad lol*.


LOL i duno man! if pizza got me a 6pack id be ripped with no prob and everyone else in the world!

----------


## < <Samson> >

> LOL i duno man! if pizza got me a 6pack id be ripped with no prob and everyone else in the world!



No shit ey. . . . I sure love nasty greasy bad for you foods. But, you really are what you eat. Don't really want to be round greasy and doughy.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> well day 2 done and totally depleted. (or very close)
> 
> weight down 5lbs this am from yesterday due to depletion. will prob be lower than that tomorrow. having to go to bed by 2100 now so i can get at least 7hrs sleep for am fasted cardio. 
> 
> def will enjoy some carbs thurs nite. nothing like not having any carbs to remind one how much u like em. only took 48hrs!


i do not know how u go for almost 2 days with very little carbs. I think I hate you now  :Smilie:  j/k

----------


## --->>405<<---

> i do not know how u go for almost 2 days with very little carbs. I think I hate you now  j/k


LOL.. actually GGR i go 4 days (sunday afternoon - thursday afternoon) with no carbs. i just do 2 days of depletion workouts.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well the carb load day went well as they always do  :Smilie: 

today heavy workout!. lookn forward to that. not lookn forward to depletion monday>> woke up lookn a lil leaner this am which is to be expected. wil do bf% manana am..

----------


## bikeral

You are a machine dude. Enjoy the weekend.

----------


## --->>405<<---

decent heavy day. managed 315 x 3 on flat bench and 275 on the incline (a first). 24hrs left and back to no carbs for 4 more days. those 4 days are tuff because food-wise there is NOTHING to look forward to... i suppose thursday afternoon  :Smilie:

----------


## RaginCajun

> decent heavy day. managed 315 x 3 on flat bench and 275 on the incline (a first). 24hrs left and back to no carbs for 4 more days. those 4 days are tuff because food-wise there is NOTHING to look forward to... i suppose thursday afternoon


315 is 315, good work!

----------


## --->>405<<---

weight: 198.8lbs 9.03%BF

thats about all i have to say about today except im not so much looking forward to no carbs and a lot of am cardio  :Wink: 

i suppose ill post a pic to be thorough.. ill post another one in 4 weeks

----------


## Back In Black

And what is that shadow on your left leg? Not that I was looking!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

*lmao!!!*

----------


## --->>405<<---

> And what is that shadow on your left leg? Not that I was looking!!!


better? LOL... LOL..

----------


## Back In Black

> better? LOL... LOL..


Arguably worse, I can most definitely tell you've 'graphed yourself in the nude!

Nice gimp mask though :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Pmsl!

i figd hey what the heck? LOL

----------


## --->>405<<---

Fasted cardio dun.. Drivin to work

----------


## gonejeepin

Posting while driving? Keep your eyes on the road ! ..... How's the cut coming along sir?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Posting while driving? Keep your eyes on the road ! ..... How's the cut coming along sir?


LOL. Short message  :Wink: 

Cut is going well. Day 1 of week 2. Down 2 lbs (as expected). Bf% rite at 9%. will prob not end up with much more LBM (if any) than when i started i expect. I may need to run a cycle its lookn like. Well see ..

----------


## RaginCajun

> LOL. Short message 
> 
> Cut is going well. Day 1 of week 2. Down 2 lbs (as expected). Bf% rite at 9%. will prob not end up with much more LBM (if any) than when i started i expect. *I may need to run a cycle* its lookn like. Well see ..



what are you thinking of running?

----------


## --->>405<<---

test only prob 500-600mg per week 8-10 weeks

----------


## milky01623

> test only prob 500-600mg per week 8-10 weeks


Dude your already running test (trt)

----------


## RaginCajun

> test only prob 500-600mg per week 8-10 weeks



how much (mgs) is that over your HRT protocol?

----------


## --->>405<<---

600mg would be 340mg over TRT. although with the E2 probs im having ive been advised to consider reducing my TRT because my total test stays above 1000 all the time and it may be a contributing factor to excess E2 conversion.

the speculation is if i bring down my total test there will be less conversion to E2 which should make it easier to maintain normal levels. i dont like the idea of reducing it but if it doesnt bring my free test down too much it may be the best thing.

----------


## --->>405<<---

depletion was BRUTAL once again. if none of yall have ever done it i recommend it! for cutting it works very well and it is by far the hardest thing ive ever had to do physically. i still feel drained right now. it takes everything out of u. depletion is an excellent descriptive term for the workout cuz not only does it deplete muscle glycogen, it also depletes ME totally physically and mentally! coupled with no carbs and no good meal to look forward to until thursday evening it is challenging on every level possible IMO.

----------


## RaginCajun

> depletion was BRUTAL once again. if none of yall have ever done it i recommend it! for cutting it works very well and it is by far the hardest thing ive ever had to do physically. i still feel drained right now. it takes everything out of u. depletion is an excellent descriptive term for the workout cuz not only does it deplete muscle glycogen, it also depletes ME totally physically and mentally! coupled with no carbs and no good meal to look forward to until thursday evening it is challenging on every level possible IMO.


you da man!

----------


## milky01623

^^^^^^^^^ x2

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> depletion was BRUTAL once again. if none of yall have ever done it i recommend it! for cutting it works very well and it is by far the hardest thing ive ever had to do physically. i still feel drained right now. it takes everything out of u. depletion is an excellent descriptive term for the workout cuz not only does it deplete muscle glycogen, it also depletes ME totally physically and mentally! coupled with no carbs and no good meal to look forward to until thursday evening it is challenging on every level possible IMO.


so u feel it pushes u to a new low?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> so u feel it pushes u to a new low?


hopefully a new low in bf% but this isnt the first time ive done this type cut. actually the 3rd time  :Smilie:

----------


## GirlyGymRat

^^^ yes and then bulk up and then repeat. i been stalking you! LOL 
i don't think i am ready for depletion. i feel depleted when i am on my macros after weights and an hour of spin class. totally depleted even tho i ate 4 hours prior.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> ^^^ yes and then bulk up and then repeat. i been stalking you! LOL 
> i don't think i am ready for depletion. i feel depleted when i am on my macros after weights and an hour of spin class. totally depleted even tho i ate 4 hours prior.


LOL  :Smilie: 

yeh bulking always seems like a good idea when ive been cutting for awhile. i figured out i do not like any fat on me so at times like now i ask myself: "self why did u eat all that food and add on that fat that u now have to lose all over again?"  :Smilie: 

i think the next time i bulk there will be larger amounts of testosterone running thru my veins  :Smilie:  it is a lot harder to gain any more LBM at this point. i suppose my desire not to gain a lot of fat does get in the way as well. 

as far as u and depletion from the looks of u ur pretty GTG as is  :Smilie:  i dont know how others do their depletion workouts but the way i do mine is explained in detail in UD2.0 and it is basically 1.5 hrs of gut wrenching pain and nausea and light-headedness followed by 4 meals of chikn or beef and green veggies. this is then repeated again the next day. LOL.. i wouldnt recommend this for u at this point  :Wink: 

i on the other hand can never be satisfied.. maintenance is boring. bulking is slow and i put on fat. i do like cutting though. i suppose if i can get to 6%bf maybe ill be happy with that and run maintenance.. (maybe) 

i dont do very well without a goal..

----------


## --->>405<<---

depletion day 2 dun. tired. have to do pm cardio cuz i couldnt drag my lazy butt out of bed this am. no matter on low/no carb days it really doesnt matter cuz i have no glycogen in me anymore anyways..

----------


## digsy1983

> depletion day 2 dun. tired. have to do pm cardio cuz i couldnt drag my lazy butt out of bed this am. no matter on low/no carb days it really doesnt matter cuz i have no glycogen in me anymore anyways..


This is the most depressing post I've read so far from ya 405! I can almost feel your misery!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> This is the most depressing post I've read so far from ya 405! I can almost feel your misery!!


LOL, thx man  :Smilie:

----------


## eazyduzit

i feel ur pain 405! just did my 2nd day depletion! I've never felt so drained after a workout! I cant be bothered breathing! lol. Keep at it man im gonna watch this thread see how u go  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx eaZy. 

Am fasted cardio done. Nutn left to do today. Except stay on diet.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

^^^  :Clap:

----------


## GirlyGymRat

[QUOTE=--->>405<<---;6165726]LOL  :Smilie: 

yeh bulking always seems like a good idea when ive been cutting for awhile. *i figured out i do not like any fat on me so at times like now i ask myself: "self why did u eat all that food and add on that fat that u now have to lose all over again*?"  :Smilie: 

as far as u and depletion from the looks of u ur pretty GTG as is  :Smilie:  i dont know how others do their depletion workouts but the way i do mine is explained in detail in UD2.0 and it is basically 1.5 hrs of gut wrenching pain and nausea and light-headedness followed by 4 meals of chikn or beef and green veggies. this is then repeated again the next day. LOL.. i wouldnt recommend this for u at this point  :Wink: 

*i on the other hand can never be satisfied.. maintenance is boring. bulking is slow and i put on fat. i do like cutting though. i suppose if i can get to 6%bf maybe ill be happy with that and run maintenance..* (maybe) 

*i dont do very well without a goal..[/*QUOTE]

*i feel like you r a long lost brother cuz i feel the same way however my bulks are unintentional and limited to 5 pounds. : )*

----------


## --->>405<<---

i had an unintentional bulk the last time GGR!  :Smilie: 

well tomorrow is carb load day in the pm again! yay!

2 more weeks of this and then i will switch it up. was gonna do a second cardio session today but i was so pissed off after cutting the grass i said screw it! LOL..

----------


## < <Samson> >

How are you checking your Bf%?

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ 9site calipers

----------


## digsy1983

Have you started the 5/2 split yet? I might have to do something similar to move the diet onto different days (gym closes at 1pm weekends and how it falls now is a big pain in the ass) 
Are you going off a hunch that the 5 low carb days will work better than the 3 1/2 low carbs days or have ppl done it this way b4? Also, do you think you could still gain lbm with the smaller anabolic window? 

P. S your new/old avi still catches me off guard! Lol.

----------


## --->>405<<---

[QUOTE=digsy1983;6170639]


> Have you started the 5/2 split yet?


not yet. when my progress slows with ud2 i will move to 5/2.




> I might have to do something similar to move the diet onto different days (gym closes at 1pm weekends and how it falls now is a big pain in the ass)


with UD2 the only workout that would fall on a weekend is the POWER which can be done in the am..




> Are you going off a hunch that the 5 low carb days will work better than the 3 1/2 low carbs days or have ppl done it this way b4?


a hunch no. theres a guy i work with who is prepping for nationals right now who if he wins (and hes a favorite) will turn pro. he is the guy who told me about the 5/2 split.




> Also, do you think you could still gain lbm with the smaller anabolic window?


gain LBM over the long run i doubt it. depending on gear of course. remember a cut is done in a deficit. deficit = loss of weight <---IMO this is more a rule and a gain in LBM IMO would be considered an exception. not impossible but an unlikely exception IMO>>> (gear can and does change things  :Wink: )

the purpose of the high carb days is not only to replenish lost muscle glycogen but also to try to replace lost LBM and stimulate the metabolism and help the body recover from the "dieting phase". while during those 2 days of high carbs u will be at a caloric surplus, theoretically u should be able to accumulate LBM for those 2 days but the evaluation IMO should be made over the life of the cut. 




> P. S your new/old avi still catches me off guard! Lol.


 good! it does what is intended  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

am fasted cardio done today and pm workout followed by carb load is gonna be good!

----------


## RaginCajun

what is this 5/2? 5 low days, 2 high days?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> what is this 5/2? 5 low days, 2 high days?


yeh thats gonna be my next "gear" once progress slows/halts on UD2

it was suggested by a bber i know who is very competitive and somewhat dominant in his field. it is his contest prep. i figd if i wanna get below 7.8% a contest prep diet should do it if anything will! we'll see..

----------


## RaginCajun

> yeh thats gonna be my next "gear" once progress slows/halts on UD2
> 
> it was suggested by a bber i know who is very competitive and somewhat dominant in his field. it is his contest prep. i figd if i wanna get below 7.8% a contest prep diet should do it if anything will! we'll see..


i watched some of my friends years ago do something similar to this and had great results. i really need to stop eating carbs!

and yes, i think that would take you to the level you want to be at. you may want to consult fireguy, haven't seen him on here much lately though

----------


## --->>405<<---

> i watched some of my friends years ago do something similar to this and had great results. i really need to stop eating carbs!
> 
> and yes, i think that would take you to the level you want to be at. you may want to consult fireguy, haven't seen him on here much lately though


thx man i actually started a thread in the competitive BB section. i just found that place and ive been here a year! LOL

we'll see what those guys have to say..

----------


## Back In Black

> i watched some of my friends years ago do something similar to this and had great results. i really need to stop eating carbs!
> 
> and yes, i think that would take you to the level you want to be at. you may want to consult fireguy, haven't seen him on here much lately though


No mate, you need to stop DRINKING carbs :Wink:

----------


## digsy1983

> with UD2 the only workout that would fall on a weekend is the POWER which can be done in the am..


i work shifts. if i worked mon-fri i could structre it no problem, but as it is id have to take leave every 3rd cycle and there's no guarentee id be able to do it. i may just put in another moderate day rather than a low day to move the days 1. see how i feel on the 4th low carb morning. no biggie really. 

so far the carb cycling thing is going well tho, considering i nearly had a nervous breakdown on the 1st low carb days! didnt go onto maintenace for 2 weeks, just jumped straight on the low/depletion days. horrible experience to say the least! 
needles to say tho ive read the lyle mcdonald ud2.0 book so there shouldnt be anymore suprises. (just the rapid bf % drop, finger crossed!!!  :Wink/Grin: )

----------


## --->>405<<---

> No mate, you need to stop DRINKING carbs


LOL.. And here i thought my pal had something to say to me.  :Wink:

----------


## RaginCajun

> No mate, you need to stop DRINKING carbs


hahahaha soooooo true!

----------


## RaginCajun

> LOL.. And here i thought my pal had something to say to me.


hahaha! and i continually get ripped in yours and not mine! hahaha! gotta love it!

----------


## RaginCajun

i just printed off the UD2 diet that stem emailed me many moons ago. time to educate!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well as hoped i woke up this am looking and feeling leaner than i did a few days ago. hopefully the trend will continue for a few more weeks.  :Smilie:

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> No mate, you need to stop DRINKING carbs


Is there another kind of carb?!!!?????!!!!

what is UD2 plz?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Is there another kind of carb?!!!?????!!!!
> 
> what is UD2 plz?


GGR i couldnt tell if u were being funny or serious so the liquid carbs is alcohol  :Smilie: 

UD2 is ultimate diet 2.0 a 7 day carb cycle diet not for the faint of heart. 

days 1-4 meat and green veggies only at 50% maintenance cals (for me this is 1500cals) plus full body, 2day total glycogen depletion torturous workouts..
day 5 high carb refeed 7000cals 1300g carbs
days 6-7 moderately highish carbs 250-300g at 75% maintenance

then repeat..

----------


## --->>405<<---

last week stats: weight: 198.8lbs 9.03%BF [LBM: 180.84lbs] [fat weight: 17.95lbs]

this week stats: weight: 198.0lbs 8.73%bf [LBM: 180.71lbs] [fat weight: 17.28lbs]

lost 0.13lbs LBM and 0.67lbs fat (16.2%LBM 83.8%fat) - good percentage id say  :Smilie: 

funny how progress is measured so much slower at this point..  :Smilie:

----------


## bikeral

Morning and happy Sunday. Progress is progress. :Welcome:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well day 1 of week 3.. depletion is done for today and have one more tomorrow. i hit the depletion workout very hard today as it took me 1.5 hrs to complete. i dont see how anyone could accomplish a total depletion workout in one day. i am spent beyond belief at half way. i have to do it over 2 days.

words cannot express the difficulty of completing this workout properly..

----------


## MR-FQ320

How are you measuring your BF% 405?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> How are you measuring your BF% 405?


9 site caliper

----------


## MR-FQ320

^^ which calculator? got a link?

----------


## GirlyGymRat

i like the liquid carbs too  :Smilie:  

looks like your progress is moving in the PREFERRED DIRECTION! yayyyy!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> i like the liquid carbs too  
> 
> looks like your progress is moving in the PREFERRED DIRECTION! yayyyy!!!!


yes def in the right direction. funny to think i did all that work last week for 0.67 lbs fat LOL..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Depletion day 2 done..  :Smilie:  ready for carbs again.

----------


## milky01623

Fill up son

----------


## t-gunz

lol 405 ffs change your dam profile pic

----------


## Back In Black

> lol 405 ffs change your dam profile pic


Ha ha, I like it. This thread is 1 year old in 2 days time and the boy still isn't bored of popping in every day!

Now gunz, as we're talking about profile pics.............................................

----------


## --->>405<<---

> lol 405 ffs change your dam profile pic


LOL.. u dont like it tgunz? LOL  :Smilie:  i think its a funny bit of irony, this fat butt lazy looking slob going around giving diet advice LOL..




> Ha ha, I like it. This thread is 1 year old in 2 days time and the boy still isn't bored of popping in every day!
> 
> Now gunz, as we're talking about profile pics.............................................


1 year is rite! what a ride huh mate? i appreciate all the help u have given me!  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

> 1 year is rite! what a ride huh mate? i appreciate all the help u have given me!


All you gotta do is give the right man the right tools!

----------


## Bulkn

405 a bit off topic but are you interested in this? 
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...l-bulk-classic

----------


## Bulkn

> lol 405 ffs change your dam profile pic


Haha yeah i doubt many of the new members on this forum would be following his diet advice!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 405 a bit off topic but are you interested in this? 
> http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...l-bulk-classic


sounds like fun but im still trying to get my TRT strait and cant run any cycles until i do  :Smilie:  but thx for bringing it to me! id love to do something like that in the future. 




> Haha yeah i doubt many of the new members on this forum would be following his diet advice!


LOL.. well i dont want that! maybe to confuse them for a second. hmm. maybe i should reconsider using this as my avi..

----------


## < <Samson> >

Keep the Avi homeslice, makes me look better. . . lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

> keep the avi homeslice, makes me look better. . . Lol


lol...

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i finally got some cardio in today at lunch. it prob doesnt matter much when i do it due to the fact that i have depleted all muscle glycogen at this point. it had also been 4hrs since i at anything..

----------


## Brick

> well i finally got some cardio in today at lunch. it prob doesnt matter much when i do it due to the fact that i have depleted all muscle glycogen at this point. it had also been 4hrs since i at anything..


You should eat before you die!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

congrats on your 1 year anniversary and your contributions!!!

----------


## t-gunz

> Ha ha, I like it. This thread is 1 year old in 2 days time and the boy still isn't bored of popping in every day!
> 
> Now gunz, as we're talking about profile pics.............................................


what about my avi stem??????????? lol 

carrot top is an extremly good looking man  :Wink: 




> LOL.. u dont like it tgunz? LOL  i think its a funny bit of irony, this fat butt lazy looking slob going around giving diet advice LOL..


lol is funny seeing a fatty give diet advice. unfortunly it really does happen with others lol

. i guess the good thing seeing that pic everyday wont make you go back to where you come from.

----------


## Back In Black

> what about my avi stem??????????? lol
> 
> carrot top is an extremly good looking man 
> .


The main thing is, and I know I shouldn't be lookin down there, but he's naked, right?!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> The main thing is, and *I know I shouldn't be lookin down there*, but he's naked, right?!


ur 2 for 2 in that dept mister! one more and we might have to start calling some things into question  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well the morning of the carb load. i tell u i think this is my fav time of the week! i know i have a very happy 30hrs coming up soon! plus the HIT workout is my favorite of the 3 types of workouts.

----------


## bikeral

Looking good man. We celebrating your 1 year anniversary. Box of capt Crunch with crunchberries?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Looking good man. We celebrating your 1 year anniversary. Box of capt Crunch with crunchberries?


i havent had the crunchberries. im a peanut butter crunch kinda guy!  :Wink: 

tomorrow is 1 year!

----------


## jklipouse

Congratulations guys keep up the hard work! Thanks for all the nutritional information you put in forums learned alot! Still have tons to learn!

----------


## Back In Black

> i havent had the crunchberries. Im a peanut butter crunch kinda guy! 
> 
> tomorrow is 1 year!


happy anniversary mate!

----------


## milky01623

> happy anniversary mate!


Ditto

----------


## --->>405<<---

> happy anniversary mate!





> Ditto


Thx guys! I tell u i only weigh 14 lbs less than last yr now but my body composition and dietary knowledge had certainly grown exponentially! 

From 166lbs LBM To 181lbs LBM (15lb increase)

Fat weight from 47lbs to 18lbs (29lb decrease)

Pretty big swing!  :Smilie:

----------


## milky01623

> Thx guys! I tell u i only weigh 14 lbs less than last yr now but my body composition and dietary knowledge had certainly grown exponentially!
> 
> From 166lbs LBM To 181lbs LBM (15lb increase)
> 
> Fat weight from 47lbs to 18lbs (29lb decrease)
> 
> Pretty big swing!


Nice one long may it continue in that balance :-)

----------


## Back In Black

> Thx guys! I tell u i only weigh 14 lbs less than last yr now but my body composition and dietary knowledge had certainly grown exponentially!
> 
> From 166lbs LBM To 181lbs LBM (15lb increase)
> 
> Fat weight from 47lbs to 18lbs (29lb decrease)
> 
> Pretty big swing!


Yeah, I heard you were a big swinger :Wink:

----------


## milky01623

> Yeah, I heard you were a big swinger


Yeah but judging by his nude pic the other day not that big I'm guessing ;-)

----------


## bikeral

Bahahaha

Happy Anniversary

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Yeah, I heard you were a big swinger


LOL. funny fellow..




> Yeah but judging by his nude pic the other day not that big I'm guessing ;-)


LOL.. im a 5'9" white guy with size 11shoe what do u expect!?!?? LOL (its big enuff to make me happy  :Wink: ) 




> Bahahaha
> 
> Happy Anniversary


thx AL!  :Smilie:

----------


## Tx89

> Thx guys! I tell u i only weigh 14 lbs less than last yr now but my body composition and dietary knowledge had certainly grown exponentially!
> 
> From 166lbs LBM To 181lbs LBM (15lb increase)
> 
> Fat weight from 47lbs to 18lbs (29lb decrease)
> 
> Pretty big swing!


My hat is Off to you, sir! Inspiring!

----------


## digsy1983

Congrats on the progress u made over the last year Bud! You've defo set the bar of Dedication and effort to us guys!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Thx guys! I tell u i only weigh* 14 lbs less than last yr now* but my body composition and dietary knowledge had certainly grown exponentially! 
> 
> From 166lbs LBM To 181lbs LBM (15lb increase)
> 
> Fat weight from 47lbs to 18lbs (29lb decrease)
> 
> Pretty big swing!


I would never have guessed only 14 lbs...amazing! wow. 
I hope you and the other members don't take this the wrong way......but your tat looks better on you now that it did last year  :Big Grin:  

BTW, did u have a cheat meal today?

----------


## Brick

Hey buddy I'm getting on the fat caliper train! Any suggestions on where to get good quality ones? I'm in Canada if that helps!

If not, online resource?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Harpenden is what i use. $400.00 kinda pricey but very nice. Google  :Smilie:  i would not get the plastic ones.

----------


## canesfan804

I was told the best way to tell your bf% is a buoyancy test. Anyone know anything about this? Is it expensive?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I was told the best way to tell your bf% is a buoyancy test. Anyone know anything about this? Is it expensive?


sounds like water displacement. i have not heard of it no. from what i understand the most accurate is the "BOD POD". 

google it for ur area.

----------


## Brick

> Harpenden is what i use. $400.00 kinda pricey but very nice. Google  i would not get the plastic ones.


Yikes! I know I just said I got a new job and an income increase but that's a little stiff with a new born on the way!

----------


## Back In Black

> I was told the best way to tell your bf% is a buoyancy test. Anyone know anything about this? Is it expensive?


Hydrostatic testing. Expensive yes. You may struggle to find one.

I use plastic calipers. The springs loosen after a while but you can get a lot of pairs of them for the price of the Harpenden ones(which are the best!).

----------


## Tx89

Maybe try Sequoia...cost was about 50EUR and way better than every cheap plastic one I had before :-)

----------


## --->>405<<---

well it was a very good and interesting sunday bf%/weigh in!

*2 weeks ago* stats: weight: 198.8lbs 9.03%BF [LBM: 180.84lbs] [fat weight: 17.95lbs]

*last week* stats: weight: 198.0lbs 8.73%bf [LBM: 180.71lbs] [fat weight: 17.28lbs]

lost 0.13lbs LBM and 0.67lbs fat (16.2%LBM 83.8%fat) - good percentage id say 

*THIS WEEK STATS:* 200.4lbs 7.88%bf [LBM: 184.6lbs] [Fat weight: 15.79lbs]

so basically i gained 2.4lbs and lost 0.85%bf LOL.. LBM went up 3.89lbs fat weight went down 1.49lbs

if i could do this every week id really be doin something! this was also done with only 1 cardio session this week! i do intend to ramp up the cardio this coming week. i suppose i have been kinda lazy in the mornings. it basically taken me 3 weeks to cut back to the bf% i was at originally.

i started my bulk August 6, 2012 at: weight today: *193lbs, bf% 7.97* and at 200.4 lbs and 7.88% bf i have managed to bulk and cut retaining 7.4lbs LBM at a slightly lower bf% than when i started! 

im not done cutting but i consider my 5week bulk and 3 week cut to be a success. *7lbs up in an 8 week course*.. if i could continue to duplicate those results id really be doing something. im sure it will prob not happen.

----------


## canesfan804

Thanks 405. I dont see any locations near me but I will keep looking. Found one but called and number is out of service. Water displacement is offered by local college but not sure of cost or wait times. Gonna look more into it.

----------


## --->>405<<---

i have a friend who is a bodybuilder and hes prob about to turn pro. he won the state bodybuilding comp here in georgia. he uses the bod pod exclusively. if its good enuff for him its good enuff for me.

----------


## canesfan804

> Hydrostatic testing. Expensive yes. You may struggle to find one.
> 
> I use plastic calipers. The springs loosen after a while but you can get a lot of pairs of them for the price of the Harpenden ones(which are the best!).


Thanks. Figured its expensive. I was looking for a accurate base to start then use calipers or something. The Bod Pod seems cost effective tho. I have a pair of plastic calipers now. Do you check multiple spots or just belly? I use to get checked by trainer at Y. Now Im at La Fit and all they do is the electronic hand held thing. Not sure how acc that is tho.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Thanks. Figured its expensive. I was looking for a accurate base to start then use calipers or something. The Bod Pod seems cost effective tho. I have a pair of plastic calipers now. Do you check multiple spots or just belly? I use to get checked by trainer at Y. Now Im at La Fit and all they do is the electronic hand held thing. Not sure how acc that is tho.


IMO the bio-impedance is a piece of &^%$!

u wanna do a 9-site caliper test. google it to find the location of the sites. 

chest, subscapular, tri, bi, suprailiac, thigh, calf, lower back, ab

**all bf skinfold pinches take place on the right side of the body

----------


## canesfan804

> IMO the bio-impedance is a piece of &^%$!
> 
> u wanna do a 9-site caliper test. google it to find the location of the sites. 
> 
> chest, subscapular, tri, bi, suprailiac, thigh, calf, lower back, ab
> 
> **all bf skinfold pinches take place on the right side of the body


Agree. The lady at the Y back home did 4 point test (thigh, back, chest, stomach) said 10.5 back in Aug moved here and trainer at La didnt even know how to use that thing. He set me up and said man you're not doing so well...... 23%. I laughed and said naw I think you're the one not doing well buddie. Long story made short the thing came up with 13.5% so I figured as long as I go down I know Im still improving. Hope Im not pissing anyone off by posting on your thread.

----------


## --->>405<<---

the only one that u could be pissing off would be me and ur not LOL..  :Smilie:

----------


## mockery

> well it was a very good and interesting sunday bf%/weigh in!
> 
> *2 weeks ago* stats: weight: 198.8lbs 9.03%BF [LBM: 180.84lbs] [fat weight: 17.95lbs]
> 
> *last week* stats: weight: 198.0lbs 8.73%bf [LBM: 180.71lbs] [fat weight: 17.28lbs]
> 
> 
> 
> lost 0.13lbs LBM and 0.67lbs fat (16.2%LBM 83.8%fat) - good percentage id say 
> ...


whats your current cycling and macros and diet out line? i have to ramp up my calories in 2 days and our stats are very similar wanna see what you are doing. thanks mate

----------


## --->>405<<---

> *whats your current cycling* and macros and diet out line? i have to ramp up my calories in 2 days and our stats are very similar wanna see what you are doing. thanks mate


do u mean what kind of carb cycle am i on or am i running a cycle?

diet is like this:

days 1-3: 1484cals, 271g pro, 65g carbs, 23g fat

day4: (am) 1000cals, (pm) 1500cals mainly from carbs

day5: 6000cals 300g pro, 1000g carbs, 80g fat

day6: 2400cals, 205g pro, 315g carbs, 39g fat

day7: 2370cals, 190g pro, 275g carbs, 56g fat

repeat.. (this is pretty close but not exact)

----------


## --->>405<<---

think im going to the bod pod today. i gotta know!

----------


## digsy1983

> think im going to the bod pod today. i gotta know!


wish there was a bod pod testing facility near me! think the closest is in London, about 500 miles away.

----------


## Back In Black

> wish there was a bod pod testing facility near me! think the closest is in London, about 500 miles away.


Check your local university, they may have one. Though the 3 uni's I tried don't cater for the public despite it being a potential money earner for them!

----------


## mockery

> do u mean what kind of carb cycle am i on or am i running a cycle?
> 
> diet is like this:
> 
> days 1-3: 1484cals, 271g pro, 65g carbs, 23g fat
> 
> day4: (am) 1000cals, (pm) 1500cals mainly from carbs
> 
> day5: 6000cals 300g pro, 1000g carbs, 80g fat
> ...


sorry , yes! i mean carb cycle. my bad mate. And thanks

----------


## mockery

those are some interesting number u came up with.

----------


## digsy1983

> Check your local university, they may have one. Though the 3 uni's I tried don't cater for the public despite it being a potential money earner for them!


Will do! Do it have you used one based in a uni? I'm based in the north western area of cumbria so even if uni's have them, its still gona be a 200 odd mile journey. fingers crossed tho.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> those are some interesting number u came up with.


I didnt come up with them. lyle macdonald did..  :Smilie:

----------


## mockery

> I didnt come up with them. lyle macdonald did..


ahh that is in ultimate diet 2.0?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> ahh that is in ultimate diet 2.0?


the concepts behind the numbers. not the numbers themselves. they are applied to individual stats.

----------


## mockery

> the concepts behind the numbers. not the numbers themselves. they are applied to individual stats.


yeah i gathered that. ive been putting off reading that book, as i feel i can still drop the few extra bf % with out it. but i have to say when i had a massive cheat "DAY" last week, i was bloated for 2 days and after i looked harder and my strength shot up. my rack pulls were 5 for 315, then i had a cheat day and i did 405 for 10 reps x 2 and thought about adding more lol. maybe Wendys baconator is the key to strength haha. 

makes sense though since im in a deficit

----------


## --->>405<<---

whats a rack pull?

----------


## mockery

> whats a rack pull?


bar just under the knee in teh cage, then having completely vertical leg positioning, taking the legs out of teh lift so its just your back working the dead lift.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ok so like a SLDL with bar at shin height  :Smilie:

----------


## canesfan804

That sounds like a tasty meal plan you have there 405 but kinda pain in the rear to prepare. I like to cook all my food for week and reheat as needed. I have 3 kids (under5) and stay at home so time to prepare is short.

----------


## --->>405<<---

i have switched out of UD2 and into a 5day low/2 day high cycle. also trying for cardio 2x per day. this should be interesting. also starting ECA Stack. 

5 days zero starch:
1850cals
300g pro
65g veggie only carbs
45-50g fat

day6&7:
unsure but prob around:
3650cals
300g pro
400-500g carbs
fat as low as i can get it around 50g

----------


## Tx89

Whats your ECA Dosage mate?

----------


## RaginCajun

> i have switched out of UD2 and into a 5day low/2 day high cycle. also trying for cardio 2x per day. this should be interesting. also starting ECA Stack. 
> 
> 5 days zero starch:
> 1850cals
> 300g pro
> 65g veggie only carbs
> 45-50g fat
> 
> day6&7:
> ...


sounds like a plan! can't wait to see ya log it

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Whats your ECA Dosage mate?


Startn with: 
25mg ephed
200mg caffeine
81mg aspirin 

1x per day for 1 day
Then 2 x per day for 1 day
Poss up to 3 x per day. 




> sounds like a plan! can't wait to see ya log it


Its a happenin!  :Smilie:  will be curious to see results this sunday.

----------


## < <Samson> >

Ha ha ha. . . Another one falls to the EC stack.

I got some Phentermine ready to go too. But, man that shit makes me feel insane.

The EC is enough for now.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> *Ha ha ha. . . Another one falls to the EC stack.*
> 
> I got some Phentermine ready to go too. But, man that shit makes me feel insane.
> 
> The EC is enough for now.


 :Smilie:  this isnt my first go around with it!

----------


## < <Samson> >

> this isnt my first go around with it!



Same here. . . It's not very extreme. But, it does give me the sakes from time to time along with a tiny bit of insomnia.


But, nothing like the Phen. That shit I can only do in one week cycles. I guess it's just me or something. . . Since I see fat asses just pop that shit without any problems.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well so far so good on the new diet. so far this week ive lifted mon and tues + done cardio twice mon and tues and am fasted cardio this am. man ive been busy and am going to bed at like 20:00 LOL.. still 2 more days of no carbs after today! 

will be curious to see bf% and weight this sunday.

----------


## canesfan804

> think im going to the bod pod today. i gotta know!


Did you ever get to the BodPod?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Did you ever get to the BodPod?


 i did. 201lbs 13%bf so it appears as i get leaner my wifes caliper ability gets worse LOL. originally when i went to the bod pod it had me at 26% and she had me at 22% (a difference of 4%). this time she had me at 8% and it has me at 13% ( a diff of 5%)  :Smilie: im not quite sure of the correlation with essential fat (which i believe the bod pod measures, and the calipers do not measure).

either way i still have some work to do coming off this mini bulk i was on! id really like to get 8% in the bod pod which would be 3-4% on the caliper measurements. gonna be tuff! hitting the cardio at least every day +3-4days of 2-a-days..

----------


## < <Samson> >

I'd be quite happy with 13% Bf. But, I already know how this goes. . . . We want to be bigger and leaner.


I think 10% flat is great, if I ever think competing is the way then it's time to go extreme.

----------


## canesfan804

> i did. 201lbs 13%bf so it appears as i get leaner my wifes caliper ability gets worse LOL. originally when i went to the bod pod it had me at 26% and she had me at 22% (a difference of 4%). this time she had me at 8% and it has me at 13% ( a diff of 5%) im not quite sure of the correlation with essential fat (which i believe the bod pod measures, and the calipers do not measure).
> 
> either way i still have some work to do coming off this mini bulk i was on! id really like to get 8% in the bod pod which would be 3-4% on the caliper measurements. gonna be tuff! hitting the cardio at least every day +3-4days of 2-a-days..


Good luck with that. Sounds like you have a pretty good system. Do you compete?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I'd be quite happy with 13% Bf. But, I already know how this goes. . . . We want to be bigger and leaner.
> 
> 
> I think 10% flat is great, if I ever think competing is the way then it's time to go extreme.


im an extremist man. i dont think i will ever be satisfied! maybe a BOD POD 4% at 225lbs then i think id be happy. anything short of that and im gonna keep going!  :Smilie:  LOL




> Good luck with that. Sounds like you have a pretty good system. Do you compete?


no. just trying to prove something to myself.

----------


## < <Samson> >

Sounds fair, I guess 5-6% Bf @ 225 would be square :Smilie: 

Well, maybe 7%

----------


## GirlyGymRat

[B]405[/B]
what's happening!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Lol! 

*hey ggr! Not much!*  :Smilie:

----------


## bikeral

> i did. 201lbs 13%bf so it appears as i get leaner my wifes caliper ability gets worse LOL. originally when i went to the bod pod it had me at 26% and she had me at 22% (a difference of 4%). this time she had me at 8% and it has me at 13% ( a diff of 5%) im not quite sure of the correlation with essential fat (which i believe the bod pod measures, and the calipers do not measure).
> 
> either way i still have some work to do coming off this mini bulk i was on! id really like to get 8% in the bod pod which would be 3-4% on the caliper measurements. gonna be tuff! hitting the cardio at least every day +3-4days of 2-a-days..


If you are 13% I guess I'm in the high 20's. (Probably I am)

You look good dude.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> If you are 13% *I guess I'm in the high 20's.* (Probably I am)
> 
> You look good dude.


LOL.. doubt it  :Smilie:  

feel like this 5daylow/2day high diet with 9-10cardio sessions per week is working though. its only day 4. well see sunday. no arguing with the bod pod..  :Smilie:  ill prob go back in 4 weeks and see where im at.

----------


## bikeral

I've been reading UD 2 last few days. Did you modify it to have more low days?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I've been reading UD 2 last few days. Did you modify it to have more low days?


no i dropped it completely. this was my plan. UD2.0 is a great diet that works and im sure ill use it again in the future. but speaking personally i can only get so far with it. i am lean but i want to be ridiculously lean. i think the 1300g carb load is holding me back. i do think itd be a good diet to run for trying to lean bulk and may use it for that down the road as an experiment. 

the cut im doing now i was trying a 1-2 punch with UD2 being (1) to get me back to lean and the (2) coming from the 5day low/2day high + 10cardio sessions per week. until this week i really did not do any cardio to speak of. 

this new diet i got from a co-worker who is prob about to turn pro BB'er. it is his contest prep model. of course im not on supraphysiologic doses of test, clen , T3, ECA and who knows what else like he is LOL.. time will tell the tale my man! 

speaking of which its almost time to do cardio  :Smilie:  LOL..

----------


## < <Samson> >

Your Avi is still money. Should of bulked from there. . . . . I think my gut still looked better. . . . LMAO

----------


## milky01623

> Your Avi is still money. Should of bulked from there. . . . . I think my gut still looked better. . . . LMAO




Attachment 127406

Nope I think you'll find mine is better lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Your Avi is still money. Should of bulked from there. . . . . I think my gut still looked better. . . . LMAO


LOL.. yeh bulked from there.. LOL.. i hope i never have to go thru a cut that long (6months) again!




> Attachment 127406
> 
> Nope I think you'll find mine is better lol


why u tryin to steal my glory man?  :Wink:  LOL..

----------


## --->>405<<---

day 4 no carbs (except green veg). im settled into it now. chest/back went surprisingly well. also did am fasted cardio 45mins with 10 min HIIT thrown in front. feeln good. lookn forward to saturday! (carbs)

----------


## digsy1983

> why u tryin to steal my glory man?  LOL..


haha cant beat a belly off comp!! am i too late to join in??lol 

interesting news on the bod pod and calipers being out of sync that far, wonder if other people have similar findings. may just be that, as you said, calipers dont take into account essential BF for the most part. did you do a bod pod on your last cut as you got down to low BF% or was it just the 1 at 26%?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> haha cant beat a belly off comp!! am i too late to join in??lol 
> 
> interesting news on the bod pod and calipers being out of sync that far, wonder if other people have similar findings. may just be that, as you said, calipers dont take into account essential BF for the most part. did you do a bod pod on your last cut as you got down to low BF% or was it just the 1 at 26%?


ive been twice. once at 26.6% and monday. i plannd on going before but never made it there. ill be going again in 4 weeks. and more frequently from now on.

----------


## digsy1983

are you gona try and compare the readings from the calipers along side the bod pod?? may not be as useful with you being low % of BF but be nice to see the differance as you drop down lower. maybe just stop about 4-5% dif. 
bit of a kick in the teeth tho, that the calipers are out by that much! that puts me back up to 17ish%. oh well carry on the cut!lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ yes i will def be comparing!  :Smilie: 

well day 5 NO CARBS! uncharted territory. TBH today is not that bad. i could have some carbs but im not dying for them. lookn leaner in the mirror. unfortunately i workd late last nite and only got 4hrs sleep. couple this with 5days of no carbs and it = no am fasted cardio today. i will be doing it at lunch though and prob a 30min session tonite.

i will prob only do abs at the gym today  :Smilie:

----------


## austinite

> ^^ yes i will def be comparing! 
> 
> well day 5 NO CARBS! uncharted territory. TBH today is not that bad. i could have some carbs but im not dying for them. lookn leaner in the mirror. unfortunately i workd late last nite and only got 4hrs sleep. couple this with 5days of no carbs and it = no am fasted cardio today. i will be doing it at lunch though and prob a 30min session tonite.
> 
> *i will prob only do abs at the gym today*


Blasphemy!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Blasphemy!


LOL.. well i planned on doing shoulders and arms too but 6days per week lifting with only one of those days (day6-legs) having carbs and hitting every body part 2x per week i thought in order to have 2 days off arms and shoulders would be the day. i might do traps. i prob will. they need to grow  :Smilie:  they are growing!

also because of my schedule i figd an AB day would be good so i can hit em hard. the rest of the week i do them twice but i dont hit em too hard cuz it drains the rest of my workout and at the end im drained from my workout  :Smilie:

----------


## austinite

^ i gotchya. Makes sense. 

I do abs twice a week, and I do them last. Typically by the time I am hitting the last few reps I start to feel like im going to puke. Never fails.

----------


## krugerr

Great new profile picture 405! 

I read the first couple of pages, and the last couple.. 77 pages is a little long of a thread to read! Forgive me if I have then missed it, but did you post progress pictures throughout this last year? It would be great to have a montage of progress pictures possible with week numbers on. You've made an outstanding effort, and continue to do so. My hat is off to you for your dedication.

Regards
Krugerr

----------


## < <Samson> >

> ^^ yes i will def be comparing! 
> 
> well day 5 NO CARBS! uncharted territory. TBH today is not that bad. i could have some carbs but im not dying for them. lookn leaner in the mirror.



Just did my 1st 5 dayer of no or neg carbs. Kinda aight after day 3. . . .

----------


## digsy1983

> ^ i gotchya. Makes sense. 
> 
> I do abs twice a week, and I do them last. Typically by the time I am hitting the last few reps I start to feel like im going to puke. Never fails.


how ever you do them, youve got fantastic results!! highly impressive!

----------


## --->>405<<---

high carb day baby! oh yeh..  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

WELL just finished legs which completes my workout commitment for the week! now i can rest and do nothing for about 40hrs and then it all starts over again!

managed to lift 6x this week and did 8 cardio sessions. all in 6 days.. looking and feeling leaner. looked pretty good in the gym PWO today. took shirt off and rolled up my shorts real high. was pretty happy! the lighting in there is good and i cojuld see some abs coming thru. quads lookd good. 

i actually looked pretty muscular from head to toe! im gonna have to get someone to take a pic of me cuz leaning my phone and standing in front of it does not do me justice! 

PWO chikn breast with oats with choc/peanut butter protein powder mixed in and a sliced banana was freaking awesome! if yall get a chance i recommend getting some of that protein powder they sell at walmart (choc peanut butter) and mixing 1scoop in with ur oats and a splash of water to moisten and then slice up a banana and throw it in. its GREAT!  :Smilie:

----------


## austinite

Good work 405! Sometimes walking away from the gym knowing you have a day or 2 off is as satisfying as a weekend off work! Carb it up!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Good work 405! Sometimes walking away from the gym knowing you have a day or 2 off is as satisfying as a weekend off work! Carb it up!


thx buddy!  :Smilie:  (and i am..carbing it up!  :Wink: )

----------


## mockery

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...71#post6198471

Hey mate can u come in my thread and help me out with my skin folds, got a 48 off 7 point. Thanks

----------


## --->>405<<---

well last weeks wife calipers said 7.88%

this week said 8.00%

now ive done 6days cardio and 5 days no carbs and AM leaner. i suppose at this point im wondering if i should even get her to do it any more. i prob will just to keep from hurting her feelings  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Am fasted cardio done. 
Did:
5min warm up
10min HIIT
25min moderate

Also like to note i dropped 1lb from last week.

----------


## bikeral

Hitting that AM fasted cardio. Go to it bro. I'm actually getting used to not doing it any more.

----------


## austinite

> Am fasted cardio done. 
> Did:
> 5min warm up
> 10min HIIT
> 25min moderate
> 
> Also like to note i dropped 1lb from last week.


Awesome! I've been so nervous about my rapid weight gain, I've been doing AM and PM cardio.

----------


## Tx89

Keep at it man! :-)
how intense are your cardio sessions when u go for 2x a day and what from what bf% you'd say they are necessary to Progress further? (question aimed at all the 2xday guys)

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Keep at it man! :-)
> how intense are your cardio sessions when u go for 2x a day and what from what bf% you'd say they are necessary to Progress further? (question aimed at all the 2xday guys)


when i go 2x per day in the am ill do 45mins either all moderate or the above workout i just posted with HIIT at the beginning. my 2nd cardio session is usually 30mins PWO moderate (135-150HR)

this is the first time ive utilized 2x per day cardio but i must say this past week has def been successful as far as losing fat. my body is left with little choice considering im lifting 6 days out of 7 and doing 8-9cardio sessions and not eating any carbs (other than broc and green beans 5 days strait).

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Hitting that AM fasted cardio. Go to it bro. *I'm actually getting used to not doing it any more*.


YEH IM BACK IN THE GROOVE AGAIN WITH CARDIO. took a few days. it can be difficult to get back on after a bulk!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> high carb day baby! oh yeh..


u treat high carb days like i do a cheat meal! LOL




> WELL just finished legs which completes my workout commitment for the week! now i can rest and do nothing for about 40hrs and then it all starts over again!
> 
> managed to lift 6x this week and did *8 cardio sessions. all in 6 days*.. looking and feeling leaner. looked pretty good in the gym PWO today. took shirt off and rolled up my shorts real high. was pretty happy! the lighting in there is good and i cojuld see some abs coming thru. quads lookd good. 
> 
> i actually looked pretty muscular from head to toe! im gonna have to get someone to take a pic of me cuz leaning my phone and standing in front of it does not do me justice! 
> 
> PWO chikn breast with oats with choc/peanut butter protein powder mixed in and a sliced banana was freaking awesome! if yall get a chance i recommend getting some of that protein powder they sell at walmart (choc peanut butter) and mixing 1scoop in with ur oats and a splash of water to moisten and then slice up a banana and throw it in. its GREAT!


wow...that's alot of cardio for a dude. good job 405  :Smilie: 




> well last weeks wife calipers said 7.88%
> 
> this week said 8.00%
> 
> now ive done 6days cardio and 5 days no carbs and AM leaner. *i suppose at this point im wondering if i should even get her to do it any more. i prob will just to keep from hurting her feelings*


:

ummm my 2C...your wife seems very supportive. she may even be helping you shave places you can't reach???  :Smilie:  ....so an extremely wise and smart husband would just let her continue to check and 405 just not get upset. just saying...how many guys on this board would luv to have a wife as supportive of their BB/fitness in your hobby?????? i think it wonderful that you have someone who is helping you!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> u treat high carb days like i do a cheat meal! LOL
> wow...that's alot of cardio for a dude. good job 405 
> 
> ummm my 2C...your wife seems very supportive. *she may even be helping you shave places you can't reach*???  ....so an extremely wise and smart husband would just let her continue to check and 405 just not get upset. just saying...how many guys on this board would luv to have a wife as supportive of their BB/fitness in your hobby?????? i think it wonderful that you have someone who is helping you!


thx GGR  :Smilie: 

are u psychic?  :Wink:

----------


## < <Samson> >

Been thinking of kicking my cardio to 2x per day also. . . . . Either that or STFU and take my nice slow progressive losses.

----------


## Tx89

> when i go 2x per day in the am ill do 45mins either all moderate or the above workout i just posted with HIIT at the beginning. my 2nd cardio session is usually 30mins PWO moderate (135-150HR)
> 
> this is the first time ive utilized 2x per day cardio but i must say this past week has def been successful as far as losing fat. my body is left with little choice considering im lifting 6 days out of 7 and doing 8-9cardio sessions and not eating any carbs (other than broc and green beans 5 days strait).


Thanks mate! I'll wait for week 2 Progress and then maybe next week Throw in some HIIT Bike Sessions pwo :-)

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> thx GGR 
> 
> are u psychic?


hahahahaha....no but 
1. u had a hairy chest in the beginning
2. now u don't
3. a hairy back withshaven chest is just odd looking
4. u and your wife seem like a team 
5. i am a woman
6. my momma didn't raise no dummy
7. more men on this board have no chest hair then the avg joes on the beach!
8. most men into BB/fitness do seem to shave alot more then just the face
9. i've been to the AR lounge 
10.how many more ya need...LOL!!!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> hahahahaha....no but 
> 1. u had a hairy chest in the beginning
> 2. now u don't
> 3. a hairy back withshaven chest is just odd looking
> 4. u and your wife seem like a team 
> 5. i am a woman
> 6. my momma didn't raise no dummy
> 7. more men on this board have no chest hair then the avg joes on the beach!
> 8. most men into BB/fitness do seem to shave alot more then just the face
> ...


LOLOLOL!!! dang girl ur good!  :Wink:

----------


## bikeral

> hahahahaha....no but 
> 1. u had a hairy chest in the beginning
> 2. now u don't
> 3. a hairy back withshaven chest is just odd looking
> 4. u and your wife seem like a team 
> 5. i am a woman
> 6. my momma didn't raise no dummy
> 7. more men on this board have no chest hair then the avg joes on the beach!
> 8. most men into BB/fitness do seem to shave alot more then just the face
> ...


bahahaha GGR you are the best.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

:Aagrouphug:  so are you and 405 and Stem.....and others. one two three....group hug

----------


## --->>405<<---

well im continuing to like what i see in the mirror. broke into 196lbs this am which is a good sign. i dont put too much credence in weight loss per se but my weight has not gone down (other than depletion) in a couple months. im losing something.. i dont haqve trouble going to sleep by 2100-2130 thats for sure! legs today at lunch. 

chest on monday i managed 315 x 4 which is typica for me. i did need a slight spot on the 4th rep but ill take it for being on a cut for 5 weeks. id say 1/2 rep drop on max work set isnt too bad!

----------


## --->>405<<---

am fasted cardio HIIT/moderate session done! 

2 more days til i get some carbs. it is a bit of a mental challenge only getting carbs 2 days per week!

----------


## scoot

> Hey thx slim.. Yeh ivedone 1 fasted ( monday) and planned on doing more.. Its just tuff getn up so early cuz i have a hard time making myself go to be by like 21:00.. I usually have to be at wk by 07:00 so i have to get up at 04:30ish... Ugh  but i plan to try and do it where i can .. I would appreciate the cardio thing by phate when u gt the time.. I usually do fairly well to about 16 % bf.. Ive never been much lower.. I usually hit a brick wall and cant fig out how to get thru it.. Im hoping u guys will be able to help me then


RIGHT! that 15/16% point is a bitch

----------


## Back In Black

> am fasted cardio HIIT/moderate session done!
> 
> 2 more days til i get some carbs. it is a bit of a mental challenge only getting carbs 2 days per week!


Don't lie, you love it. We all love this abstinence thing. Kind of!

Now, where's my log.............

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Don't lie, you love it. We all love this abstinence thing. Kind of!
> 
> Now, where's my log.............


LOL.. prob on page 5!  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well another day done. i dont think i could go more than 5 days with no carbs. i kinda cheated on my diet today. i was hungry and couldnt get to my food so i has 3.25 oz beef jerky. 14g carbs 210cals.. oh well. i suppose beef jerky isnt much of a cheat!

----------


## < <Samson> >

Jerky has carbs? word

Yeah, 5 days seems to be my cut off point so far too.


Maybe, I will push it to 6.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> *Jerky has carbs?* word
> 
> Yeah, 5 days seems to be my cut off point so far too.
> 
> 
> Maybe, I will push it to 6.


no too many but some. today im off from work and have not done anything! will def do some cardio + cut grass. prob will not go to the gym. sitting my lazy butt on the couch rite now LOL.. waist is down to 33 3/4 (1.5") in 2 weeks!

----------


## Tx89

My grass needs a cut badly, too.
Been bulking for too Long man!

----------


## Brick

New avi looks sick man!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> New avi looks sick man!


thx dude!  :Smilie: 

well wife took bf% today but none of the numbers really dropped. however i now weigh 195.6 (down from 197.something last week) and my waist is down to 33 1/2 from 35" 2 weeks ago. i am also looking a fair amt leaner in the mirror.

not really worried about bf% at this point because the way i see it how could the numbers drop when they reflect i have 7.something% bf when in actuality its closer to prob 11-12%.. so whatever. ill be going to the bod pod in prob 2 weeks. that is gonna be my guide from here on out!

----------


## RaginCajun

> thx dude! 
> 
> well wife took bf% today but none of the numbers really dropped. However i now weigh 195.6 (down from 197.something last week) and my waist is down to 33 1/2 from 35" 2 weeks ago. I am also* looking a fair amt leaner in the mirror.*
> not really worried about bf% at this point because the way i see it how could the numbers drop when they reflect i have 7.something% bf when in actuality its closer to prob 11-12%.. So whatever. Ill be going to the bod pod in prob 2 weeks. That is gonna be my guide from here on out!


sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!

----------


## bikeral

How is it going? I see you are cutting away.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Going well thx al! 

Have been away since sunday evening. Have a friend in federal prison. He got a furlough for transfer to another facility. I transferred him. Needless to say diet has been gone! Plus tomorrow is my birthday. Next week i go out of town for 2 days. So diet and cutting is gonna be tuff!

----------


## RaginCajun

> Going well thx al! 
> 
> Have been away since sunday evening. Have a friend in federal prison. He got a furlough for transfer to another facility. I transferred him. Needless to say diet has been gone! Plus tomorrow is my birthday. Next week i go out of town for 2 days. So diet and cutting is gonna be tuff!


libra huh!

same here, mine is friday!

hopefully i won't end up in prison!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> libra huh!
> 
> same here, mine is friday!
> 
> *hopefully i won't end up in prison!*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


^^ i hope NOT  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Mate, are those abs I can see in your avi? Or is it a trick of the light :Wink: 

Started TRT today, hoping it will make me feel 'normal' again!

----------


## --->>405<<---

decent chest/back workout today. had a great pump going on! got a few comments on how i look bigger LOL. not bad to hear on a cut i suppose. im sure it is due to the prob 10,000cals worth of fat and carbs i ate over the last few days LOL. also have birthday cake tonite, again at moms house, birthday dinner sat nite, and going out of town for 2 days next week. 

man so much for a solid cut rite now. i will not let the cut dictate my diet this time. this time my good time will dictate the diet! i think i have earned that privilege!  :Wink:

----------


## Back In Black

Well yes, Happy Birthday mate. Good to see you are catching me up, if only for a month!

----------


## bikeral

Happy Birthday 405

Whats on the menu to celebrate?

----------


## milky01623

Happy bday dude 

Ill raise a glass of sweet tea to y'all

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Mate, are those abs I can see in your avi? Or is it a trick of the light
> 
> Started TRT today, hoping it will make me feel 'normal' again!


im workn on em! still a way to go.. yes TRT is awesome dude! E2 is my biggest obstacle  :Smilie: 




> Well yes, Happy Birthday mate. Good to see you are catching me up, if only for a month!


yeh i hate it and love it at the same time. at least now i can get a bit fat with confidence of my ability to lose it!  :Smilie: 




> Happy Birthday 405
> 
> Whats on the menu to celebrate?


man al so far:
15 pieces of banana bread
25 (or so) homemade choc chip cookies
2big bowls of cereal
macdonalds sausage egg cheese biscuit
hashbrown
baby back ribs
fries
sweet tea
footlong sub
4 big pieces carrot cake (got in my veggies  :Wink: )
sausage and apple cinnamon brn sugar oats (prepackaged crap!)
chic fil a sandwich and fries
triple scoop (pralines and cream, coconut) ice cream from baskin robbins in waffle bowl
another big bowl cereal

that was before todays birthday cake (some fancy strawberry/vanilla pudding filled yellow cake with coconut icing) and prob pizza for dinnr followed by more cake from moms house (chocolate icing/yellow cake) and dinner sat nite at chart house ( big piece of steak, some fattening carb choice) + big piece of mud cake! 

and next week i have to go out of town with father in law to a christian rally (dr. david jeremiah) in atlanta so 2 days more of eating! 

i suppose i will cancel out all the progress ive made in the 2 weeks ive been cutting at least but what the heck! its over the top i know LOL.. 

(u asked!  :Wink: )

----------


## bikeral

I must say. You know how to eat.

Enjoy bro. Sometimes I think you purposefully gain a few pounds so you can cut again.

You are a serial cutter. May want to get that checked out.  :Wink/Grin:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I must say. You know how to eat.
> 
> Enjoy bro. Sometimes I think you purposefully gain a few pounds so you can cut again.
> 
> You are a serial cutter. May want to get that checked out.


LOL yeh ive thought the same thing! i do enjoy cutting but i also enjoy eating which is why i have to cut so much. i guess eating above maintenance then cutting has become my maintenance LOL..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well its time for good ole leg day!  :Smilie:  lets burn some cals.. think my body may be just now transitioning back into cutting after the monday, tuesday gorge fest! still at 199lbs (3.5lbs heAVIER than monday am  :Smilie: )

----------


## eazyduzit

Smash those legs out!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well today i have birthday dinner with family gonna have rack of lamb! + homemade chocolate cake.

figd id carb up today as well and then go back to no carbs til thursday when i go out of town..

----------


## --->>405<<---

chest/back was awesome today! man i tell u i was looking pumped like a MOFO by the end! lean and very muscular! feel great all of a sudden for some reason. maybe it was all that junk food then 3 days no carbs followed by a pre workout 200g carb refeed that did it!

*mental note: 3days low/no carbs; 1 day high carb* might be a good strategy! i will prob continue in my 5day low/no; 2 day high for awhile but im gonna keep this in my head for future experimentation.

now for my PWO meal: 1pound chikn breast 1cup oats with scoop protein powder and banana (125g protein, 75g carbs)

----------


## GirlyGymRat

happy belated birthday 405!!!

homemade chocolate cake....nice wife  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ thx GGR!  :Smilie: 

had a great leg workout today! did 4 giant work sets of:

squat, leg extension, leg curl, seated calf raise

had record breaking squat session which im very happy about seeing as how im on a cut and today is day 3 no/veggie only carbs.

squat:
135 x 15
225 x 10
315 x 8
405 x 8
405 x 8
*455 x 8 
495 x 8*

i think i can prob go to 585 but im gonna hang at 495 for a couple more sessions then prob go to 535 then 585.. 

not bad for a 200lb guy  :Smilie:

----------


## mockery

> chest/back was awesome today! man i tell u i was looking pumped like a MOFO by the end! lean and very muscular! feel great all of a sudden for some reason. maybe it was all that junk food then 3 days no carbs followed by a pre workout 200g carb refeed that did it!
> 
> *mental note: 3days low/no carbs; 1 day high carb* might be a good strategy! i will prob continue in my 5day low/no; 2 day high for awhile but im gonna keep this in my head for future experimentation.
> 
> now for my PWO meal: 1pound chikn breast 1cup oats with scoop protein powder and banana (125g protein, 75g carbs)


welcome to the 4 day carb cycle club.  :Smilie:

----------


## Brick

> ^^ thx GGR! 
> 
> had a great leg workout today! did 4 giant work sets of:
> 
> squat, leg extension, leg curl, seated calf raise
> 
> had record breaking squat session which im very happy about seeing as how im on a cut and today is day 3 no/veggie only carbs.
> 
> squat:
> ...


Monster squat!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

405....r u lost in the Q&A forum with BIKER AL???  :Big Grin:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Monster squat!


thx bucka  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 405....r u lost in the Q&A forum with BIKER AL???


sometimes.. a little bored with diet advice. is it me or has this forum been neglected by many as of late? where r all the regulars?

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> sometimes.. a little bored with diet advice. is it me or has this forum been neglected by many as of late? where r all the regulars?


yup. i don't know. i had to stalk you and Al in the Q&A forum  :Smilie:  

Good news....there are a few more gals as of late. this makes me very happy cuz i get lonely on this board since there is not enuff estrogen most days (guys fighting gyno doesn't count LOL)

----------


## --->>405<<---

> yup. i don't know. i had to stalk you and Al in the Q&A forum  
> 
> Good news....there are a few more gals as of late. this makes me very happy cuz i get lonely on this board since there is not enuff estrogen most days (guys fighting gyno doesn't count LOL)


more estrogen on here is def a good thing! hows ur diet and cardio going?

----------


## GirlyGymRat

sorry to say i lost momentum from vacation. i haven't weighed in yet and the water weight is gone (finally). i may have to face the scales tomorrow  :Frown:  i have a serious carb issue. it seems that i ate bread and desserts and now i can't shake the taste. I thnk you would suggest i go a few days without em???

i have another surgery on Thursday which is gonna put me out of the game for another 6 weeks with walking only and i have ankle surgery on the horizon, only waiting on disposition of shoulder. ortho thinks rotator cuff tear and have MRI scheduled....it's a process. both orthos what to know extent of shoulder b4 schedule ankle...cuz be on crutches and boot for 4 - 6 weeks. These injuries need to be addressed and wouldn't be surprised if i am out of commission into the start of the new year. DIET WILL BE SO KEY FOR THE NEXT FEW MONTHS! i am going to have to keep it very tight. i am thinking i need some extra help  :Smilie:  just have to figure out what will give me the most benes without the ability to workout proper.  :Big Grin:

----------


## mockery

bump

lyle back in 2004 was a big support of brian haycock and hst and gave alot of advice for diet. there was even talk of running the diet part of ud 2.0 with the linear progressive load of hst work outs.

recently in teh past few years lysles said nope, do teh work outs form ud2.0 OR running a Daily undulating periodization wich the rep ranges change in the same week apposed to every week or two weeks with hst.

Now my question for you mate, You have run UD2.0 in your experience and opinion can you use the depletion and diet set up with out the full body exercises in the book?

they will be replaced with progressive loads that will be upper/lower and except for when i max out every 2 weeks. TUT "time under tension" will be full executed on all sets.

might be a bit confusing, hope you can help im loving my 4 day carb cycles but i need to look ahead over the next 8 months and try and get to a point where im low enough and conditioned so my show prep is a smooth transition for the nationals

----------


## --->>405<<---

ur getn pretty fancy on me here mock  :Wink:  with HST and undulating periodization talk LOL.. 

lets try to simplify the question if u can. are u asking if u can do a difft work out to deplete muscle glycogen than whats in the book while keeping everything else the same?

----------


## mockery

> ur getn pretty fancy on me here mock  with HST and undulating periodization talk LOL.. 
> 
> lets try to simplify the question if u can. are u asking if u can do a difft work out to deplete muscle glycogen than whats in the book while keeping everything else the same?


correct different resistance training, but using the cyclkieotgenics diet or how ever lyle refers to it lol

----------


## Tx89

Well I've done HST and think its a great approach for training, but would not believe its superior to the regular UD schedule of training. UD in my experience is a pretty well thought out and balanced program. Not sure how the linear progression in different rep ranges in HST would do the same job on depletion as regular UD depletion sessions.
Both great approaches without a doubt, but I wouldnt mix em!

----------


## --->>405<<---

the key to UD2 depletion is simply this:

major muscle groups: chest, back, quads, hammys 10-12 sets x 15 reps (under tension 45-60 secs per set)

minor muscle groups: bis, tris, shoulders, calves 6-8sets x 15 reps (under tension 45-60 secs per set)

this is all to be done by the end of day 2 of the 7 day cycle. whatever exercises u want to do to accomplish this is fine. from my understanding 15reps is not a must but more a guideline/average amount necessary to achieve time under tension. 

time under tension supercedes rep range. the only other factor is weight. this is a major factor and kind of hard to quantify. typically 60% 1 rep max.

hope this helps!  :Smilie:

----------


## GirlyGymRat

just stoppin in to say hi!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> just stoppin in to say hi!


hi!  :Smilie:

----------


## mockery

i love time under tension. almost better then sex but not as good a PB captain crunch.

thanks.

----------


## mockery

> Well I've done HST and think its a great approach for training, but would not believe its superior to the regular UD schedule of training. UD in my experience is a pretty well thought out and balanced program. Not sure how the linear progression in different rep ranges in HST would do the same job on depletion as regular UD depletion sessions.
> Both great approaches without a doubt, but I wouldnt mix em!


if im doing hst i do the upper/lower like suggested by lyle and Brian 8 years ago into a 6 day split. as i still need to gain mass for 5 months i dont really need to jump on UD2.0 already. just thinking a head, and over thinking at that. Ive out grown the hst full body work outs 3 times a week.

now i just have to figure out this whole 60 reps per muscle group, is a day, a week, and what volume that can increase on while blasting for a show. oh i am my worst own enemy!!

haha

----------


## SlimmerMe

Hey 405......glad you are still going strong and keeping the place in line......

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Hey 405......glad you are still going strong and keeping the place in line......


thx slim!

----------


## mockery

bump.

First time in months i had a 405 type refeed day, it was epic. by last night i had the gut i worked so hard to lose i looked 6 months prego. I havent been that full in MONTHS, felt good. I woke up looking swole from it too. 

Digging these 4 day cycles. 150/150/150/unlimited. Not quiet the same idea frank zane ran. lol keto/keto/keto/1 baked poatoe

----------


## --->>405<<---

> bump.
> 
> First time in months i had a 405 type refeed day, it was epic. by last night i had the gut i worked so hard to lose i looked 6 months prego. I havent been that full in MONTHS, felt good. I woke up looking swole from it too. 
> 
> Digging these 4 day cycles. 150/150/150/unlimited. Not quiet the same idea frank zane ran. lol keto/keto/keto/1 baked poatoe


hey buddy  :Smilie:  thx for bumping the thread! i havent been posting on here a lot kinda in the middle of working something up. itll prob be a little while before i see how it goes but ill let u know about it when i see some results.

----------


## mockery

yeah same, im gonna work up from 195 to 200 then try and maintain 200 while doing one of my slow re comps and see if i can maintain that. Good luck with what ever you are brewing

----------


## bikeral

Dude did you try this recipe?

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...e#.UJEq-MXyp8E

I use 1 cup egg whites, 1 cup oats, 1 cup non fat cottage cheese, 1 scoop chocolate protein powder, 1 banana. Makes 8 muffins. Its like portable protein pancakes.

----------


## --->>405<<---

cool! will do! sounds interesting. may be able to eliminate the protein powder and add fruit and have blueberry muffin banana (add nuts)  :Smilie:

----------


## Brick

> Dude did you try this recipe?
> 
> http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...e#.UJEq-MXyp8E
> 
> I use 1 cup egg whites, 1 cup oats, 1 cup non fat cottage cheese, 1 scoop chocolate protein powder, 1 banana. Makes 8 muffins. Its like portable protein pancakes.


Making these tomorrow! 
Any idea the macros of one?

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> hey buddy  thx for bumping the thread! i havent been posting on here a* lot kinda in the middle of working something up. itll prob be a little while before i see how it goes but ill let u know about it when i see some results.*


hmmmm...got my curiosity going here  :What?:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> hmmmm...got my curiosity going here


LOL i wondered if anyone would notice. once the results start coming i will make some posts about it. it is a bit controversial method that goes against some of the things ive learned on here. but u have to think outside the box sometimes to make forward progress. instead of debating i figure ill let the results speak for themselves! (hopefully  :Wink: )

----------


## RaginCajun

> hmmmm...got my curiosity going here





> LOL i wondered if anyone would notice. once the results start coming i will make some posts about it. it is a bit controversial method that goes against some of the things ive learned on here. but u have to think outside the box sometimes to make forward progress. instead of debating i figure ill let the results speak for themselves! (hopefully )


peptides or a cycle is what i am thinking

----------


## GirlyGymRat

Peps is my bet.

----------


## mockery

omg hes using the body by brant dieting plan! , CONTROVERSIAL

----------


## Tron3219

> omg hes using the body by brant dieting plan! , CONTROVERSIAL


Nah total body gym endorsed by chuck norris

It must b true if chuck says so

----------


## mockery

if i had to take a guess id say hes trying to get to 4% using DNP

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Peps is my bet.





> omg hes using the body by brant dieting plan! , CONTROVERSIAL





> peptides or a cycle is what i am thinking





> Nah total body gym endorsed by chuck norris
> 
> It must b true if chuck says so





> if i had to take a guess id say hes trying to get to 4% using DNP


LOL u guys are funny! i will say i am not using nor will i ever use DNP ! it is more of a dietary approach. im glad to see i have managed to spark some interest!  :Wink:  there could be some peptides in there somewhere but that remains to be seen..

who's Brant?  :Smilie:

----------


## mockery

adkins diet!

----------


## Tx89

Lol @ DNP 

Mate, have u ever been clening it?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> adkins diet!


nope.. its not a diet like that.




> Lol @ DNP 
> 
> Mate, have u ever been clening it?


never done clen . ECA.

----------


## bikeral

I am hoping its the Captain crunch and heavy cream diet.

----------


## mockery

OMFG the PB captain crunch diet why didnt i think of this.

----------


## tbody66

Looking Great 405. Glad to see and hear it!

----------


## RaginCajun

> Looking Great 405. Glad to see and hear it!


well look at what the cat drug in!

----------


## tbody66

Saint's Win! tbody stops in, must be a day of miracles!

----------


## bikeral

There are fat guys not getting diet advice today because 405 is debating in the lounge.  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

> There are fat guys not getting diet advice today because 405 is debating in the lounge.


Ha ha, he doesn't leave very often but when he does he gets lost and can't find his way back!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> There are fat guys not getting diet advice today because 405 is debating in the lounge.


LMAO!!! funny fellow u are Al! LOL..

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Ha ha, he doesn't leave very often but when he does he gets lost and can't find his way back!


good to see u old pal! hows it been? not getn on a lot or if u are ur not sayn a lot!  :Smilie:

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> There are fat guys not getting diet advice today because 405 is debating in the lounge.


he was posting pics yesterday...LOL!

----------


## Back In Black

> good to see u old pal! hows it been? not getn on a lot or if u are ur not sayn a lot!


Not getting on much at the minute mate. Can just about read through a few of my favourite threads but that's about it.

I've reverted to being a bit of a purist and only helping those that I think will take my advice on board and get results. Like this one :Wink:  (not that you need me anymore!).

----------


## --->>405<<---

:Smilie:  shoot man i still def appreciate ur perspective on things! also miss having my buddy to BS with.. how is the business going? hows ur diet and workout going? hows ur bf% these days? i know u said something about 14% awhile back have u managed to get rid of some of that?

----------


## RaginCajun

> Not getting on much at the minute mate. Can just about read through a few of my favourite threads but that's about it.
> 
> I've reverted to being a bit of a purist and only helping those that I think will take my advice on board and get results. Like this one (not that you need me anymore!).


Wonder if mine gets looked at???

----------


## Back In Black

> Wonder if mine gets looked at???


Ooh, I look at yours all the time :Wink:

----------


## Back In Black

> shoot man i still def appreciate ur perspective on things! also miss having my buddy to BS with.. how is the business going? hows ur diet and workout going? hows ur bf% these days? i know u said something about 14% awhile back have u managed to get rid of some of that?


184lbs about 12%, maybe a little less. Keep having 2 day blips on my diet but its easy to reign in the damage I do in those 2 days. I'm happy how I look at the mo, particularly chest and delts, they look much better when I'm not 170lbs!!! But I have my surgery in 3 weeks and I can't do upper body work for 6 weeks so my stats are gonna change by the end of the year.

Still waiting to get shop premises, hoping I can sign for some by the end of the year but its a redevelopment that won't be ready til early summer!

You still coming over for a small visit and Le Tour next year?

----------


## --->>405<<---

2 day blips r pretty good esp if ur able to maintain  :Smilie:  i had a major one day (i dont know what u wanna call it) last saturday due to a wedding. i ate all kinds of stuff! prob 5000-7000cals. it was awesome! 

i also like to note my squat is up to 515 x 5 for 2 sets. pretty happy with that.

----------


## Back In Black

I know I can't improve my physique before March really. I'm kind of enjoying some good eats and I actually enjoy the penance of putting it right. Need to be really careful during my down time after the op but I should be able to do some LIC for 4 of the 6 weeks I can't lift.

Good squatting mate, I haven't squatted in 2 years nearly. Don't miss it. My legs are ok and if they get any bigger I can't get into my stylish slim fit jeans :Wink: 

Do you guys do Movember over there?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Movember?? English lingo??  :Wink:

----------


## Back In Black

Growing a moustache through November. For men's health charities. Not allowed to shave the old 'tache for the whole month. Mine is looking fairly camp right now.

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL thats funny!  :Smilie:  i cant really grow a very good one..

----------


## Back In Black

> LOL thats funny!  i cant really grow a very good one..


Funnily enough, neither can I !!

----------


## LiveFitBeFit

Stem we do "No shave Novemeber!" Pretty much look scummy all month!

----------


## Back In Black

> Stem we do "No shave Novemeber!" Pretty much look scummy all month!


Ah, that would be Decembeard over here!

Beards are far more acceptable than a 'Tache which were only really acceptable in the 70's and 80's. I've go e far a camp handlebar style!

----------


## digsy1983

[QUOTE=SteM;6254561]Ah, that would be Decembeard over here!

Beards are far more acceptable than a 'Tache which were only really acceptable in the 70's and 80's. *I've go e far a camp handlebar style![*/QUOTE]

Haha! Great minds think alike, or is it fools never differ??? 
I'm sporting the handlebar mustache, and I must say it's rather growing on me! Unfortunately I look like a extra that was never incorporated into the village people!

----------


## RaginCajun

just saw a pic of ya wheels in the other thread, nice!

most i ever squated was 425, but that was in high school and college (power lifted for LSU!)

----------


## GirlyGymRat

405. What's going on?????? Have you figured out how I can cut 8 lbs of fat???? Plz share your secret with me!!!! Lol.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 405. What's going on?????? Have you figured out how I can cut 8 lbs of fat???? Plz share your secret with me!!!! Lol.


whats up GGR!?  :Smilie:  i dont think u can lift rite now canu? also can u do cardio??

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> whats up GGR!?  i dont think u can lift rite now canu? also can u do cardio??


I am allowed to walk for the next 2 weeks. So the stair master is walking. Right??? I did level 11 of 20 for 60 mins yesterday. No lifting using rotator cuff - it's torn so no lifting other than bi cep curls but first ankle surgery. I figure I will not be able to workout for 7 months +\- a month starting in December  :Cry:  

I hope u aren't suggesting that I have no options but to get fat again??? That will be a serious problem since I purged all my fattie pants! Maybe supplements would help!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

as long as u can do cardio/diet u should be fine. if u cant do cardio ur gonna have to be careful about what u eat even moreso... staying lean without exercise is a bit out of my area. id suggest consulting with GBrice for this. ill be interested to hear what he has to say!

----------


## Back In Black

> as long as u can do cardio/diet u should be fine. if u cant do cardio ur gonna have to be careful about what u eat even moreso... staying lean without exercise is a bit out of my area. id suggest consulting with GBrice for this. ill be interested to hear what he has to say!


If you move less eat less. No need for pre workout carbs if ther's no workout and you could drop your pro a little as you aren't lifting.

I have my op in 2 weeks and I'll be dropping approx 25% from both my carb and protein totals whilst I can't train.

----------


## --->>405<<---

to the rescue!  :Smilie:  makes sense but doesnt sound like fun!  :Smilie: 

good luck on ur surgery mate! ill be doing enuff for the both of us. currently on EOD schedule with weights one day and 90mins cardio the next. just thought about it and i havent had a day off in almost 3 weeks!

----------


## Back In Black

Ouch, don't forget your CNS needs a rest even if ups alternate cardio with lifting days. 90 mins at a time? 

I should get back to LIC fasted cardio within 10 days so may be able to eat a little more than the 1900 cals I have planned! But sitting around recuperating is gonna be tough not to nibble here and there!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Ouch, don't forget your CNS needs a rest even if ups alternate cardio with lifting days. 90 mins at a time? 
> 
> I should get back to LIC fasted cardio within 10 days so may be able to eat a little more than the 1900 cals I have planned! But sitting around recuperating is gonna be tough not to nibble here and there!


gotcha! how often u think? 1 per 7?

60mins am fasted 

30min light intervals at lunch (also fasted)

----------


## Back In Black

1 in 7 sounds good. Especially if you are training 9 times in the other 6 days!

----------


## RaginCajun

> 1 in 7 sounds good. Especially if you are training 9 times in the other 6 days!


over achiever he is!!!!

love it 405, just listen to your body, it will tell you when it needs rest!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 1 in 7 sounds good. Especially if you are training 9 times in the other 6 days!


i guess i didnt consider cardio training per se




> over achiever he is!!!!
> 
> love it 405, just listen to your body, it will tell you when it needs rest!


is that kinda like listening for a train? stop, look, listen..  :Wink:

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> If you move less eat less. No need for pre workout carbs if ther's no workout and you could drop your pro a little as you aren't lifting.
> 
> I have my op in 2 weeks and I'll be dropping approx 25% from both my carb and protein totals whilst I can't train.


Thanks SteM. i figured cutting calories is appropriate, but i was not thinking both by 25%  :What?:  the thought of clen or anavar has crossed my mind, but i won't be able to workout - nothing for quiet some time  :Cry: 

We are both having op together! I don't know what's going on with you, but here's hoping you the very best and speedy recovery!  :Smilie:

----------


## GirlyGymRat

you are a freakin machine  :Smilie: 




> gotcha! how often u think? 1 per 7?
> 
> 60mins am fasted 
> 
> 30min light intervals at lunch (also fasted)

----------


## Back In Black

> Thanks SteM. i figured cutting calories is appropriate, but i was not thinking both by 25%  the thought of clen or anavar has crossed my mind, but i won't be able to workout - nothing for quiet some time 
> 
> We are both having op together! I don't know what's going on with you, but here's hoping you the very best and speedy recovery!


Thanks GGR I am having some weird gyno removed!

The 25% reductions drop my cals enough for maintenance. It may be that those %'s change as I go along buy its a good starting point!

----------


## --->>405<<---

id like to note my dietary knowledge is growing at this point in time. i learning some methods that had not occurred to me to this point! definitely a cool thing which i wanted to post in this thread since its my log. body building is something u acquire more knowledge as time goes on and its pretty cool when u discover a method u have not previously considered that is proving to be effective!

im starting to believ more and more 8%bf or less may indeed be achieveable for me! although i am also coming to understand that the number is meaningless as compared to the visual results achieved.

----------


## cue_artist

^^true .

----------


## --->>405<<---

just completed 23hr fast today. (8pm last nite - 7pm tonite) very interesting! am beginning to see the merit in fasting on non-workout days! keeps cals at bay + does a bunch of other stuff supposedly i dont yet completely understand! 

not to mention the 90mins fasted cardio i did today!

----------


## Tx89

Mate, u r an inspiration to me, no ****in less.
Mirin ;-)

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ thx tx!  :Smilie:  gotta keep learning and going forward dude!

----------


## Back In Black

> ^^ thx tx!  gotta keep learning and going forward dude!


Always learning. To learn properly you need to do as you are doing, self experimentation!

Right, I'm in London and off to enjoy my weekend. It's that time of year, again!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Always learning. To learn properly you need to do as you are doing, self experimentation!
> 
> Right, I'm in London and off to enjoy my weekend. It's that time of year, again!


have a great time mate! i know u enjoy ur trips to london! maybe one day ill get to go  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

It always means I'm a year wiser :Smilie: 

We'll mate, when you get to London I'll come meet you and let you buy me a pint. Of a protein shake, of course :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Aha! Happy birthday!?  :Smilie: 

Ill be sure to let u know!

----------


## --->>405<<---

took some awesome pics in the gym yesterday but the dang app on my phone did not save em. oh well i suppose ill just wait a little while longer. ive got abs! and getting leaner by the day.. maintaining strength as well!

----------


## LiL P

Look forward too seeing the pics gonna keep checking in too see if i can pick any information i can use from this thread

LiL P

----------


## --->>405<<---

feel free man! be sure to ask a lot of questions too  :Smilie:

----------


## RaginCajun

so, are you liking the fasting?

are you switching it up daily/weekly?

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh im liking the results! i fast for 11hrs after waking on non-training days and only eat according to appetite with no carbs. i make sure i dont go over 1250cals but if im under then thats fine.

on training days im eating 3400cals all carbs (300g) pre-workout only. no PWO carbs. probably a controversial method according to a lot on this site but the results im getting speak for themselves.. no arguing required. 

so basically i get carbs 4 hrs every 48hrs.. 

also doing 90mins cardio EOD (fasting days) split into 1 60min session and 1 30min interval session..

----------


## Tron3219

Well what's up with some pics? Lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Well what's up with some pics? Lol


gotta get the app to work on my phone as well as be in the gym where the lighting is best!  :Wink:

----------


## RaginCajun

> yeh im liking the results! i fast for 11hrs after waking on non-training days and only eat according to appetite with no carbs. i make sure i dont go over 1250cals but if im under then thats fine.
> 
> on training days im eating 3400cals all carbs (300g) pre-workout only. no PWO carbs. probably a controversial method according to a lot on this site but the results im getting speak for themselves.. no arguing required. 
> 
> so basically i get carbs 4 hrs every 48hrs.. 
> 
> also doing 90mins cardio EOD (fasting days) split into 1 60min session and 1 30min interval session..



very inspiring!

i just need a swift kick in the rear, in regards to diet.

no to low carbs seems the way to go!

----------


## --->>405<<---

just a brief updated pic for yall. nothing great but figd id post it here for comparison. this is 3 weeks into my new cutting diet and down 8lbs and 1" in waist. started at 13%, figure im pushing 10-11% here.. 192lbs

ill prob post another one in 4 weeks. we'll see how i do!  :Smilie:

----------


## RaginCajun

nice wheels 405!

looking more ripped and not as full from your other pics in my opinion

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx cajun. yeh i only get carbs 4 hrs out of every 48hrs so im pretty much carb depleted (not glycogen depleted mind u) most of the time. i do look pretty good with a pump on!  :Smilie: 

pic was taken in the am right after getn out of bed!  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Really good wheels. Do you workout?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Really good wheels. Do you workout?


LOL.. here and there! when im not eating krispy kreme glazed doughnut bacon cheddar burgers!

----------


## Back In Black

> LOL.. here and there! when im not eating krispy kreme glazed doughnut bacon cheddar burgers!


You can keep your KK! Last time I walked past one the smell just put me off! Gimme a plain ring donut dipped in sugar and I'm a happy boy. Now, bacon and cheese burgers, I haven't had one of since........Saturday!

Good to see you we're wearing pants too :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok i finally got some pics in the gym that actually look decent so im postin em  :Smilie: 

progress for sure!  :Smilie: 

id also like to note i did lower body today (except traps)..

----------


## digsy1983

looking impressive man! only 1 problem i see... STRAPS!!! oj. lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

> looking impressive man! only 1 problem i see... STRAPS!!! oj. lol


LOL.. yeh i would not usually use them except im shrugging 365lbs and it makes it easier for me to focus on pulling with traps as opposed to arms. also i have a bit of medial epicondylitis so im trying to baby it! thx tho..  :Smilie:

----------


## digsy1983

i use straps on heavy shrugs aswel myself buddy, so was just being critical and pedantic for poops n giggles. 

seems youve put on some size (muscle) tho! thought it was a new fangled 'cutting' method you were doing? get it into a stickie if its working man!!  :Wink:

----------


## GirlyGymRat

i take it you didn't get hired for that seasonal gig as santa claus this year  :Hmmmm:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> i use straps on heavy shrugs aswel myself buddy, so was just being critical and pedantic for poops n giggles. 
> 
> *seems youve put on some size (muscle) tho! thought it was a new fangled 'cutting' method you were doing?* get it into a stickie if its working man!!


i think ur rite as i have gotten stronger and the pics do show some LBM gain. ive also lost 10lbs of weight. and ur rite i am on a cutting diet of sorts! one i have a lot of confidence in that goes against a lot i used to believe! has to do with *NUTRIENT TIMING*  : 1106: 




> i take it you didn't get hired for that seasonal gig as santa claus this year


LMAO!! guess ill have to find another seasonal gig!  :Wink:

----------


## digsy1983

oh my, how dare you utter that phrase on here! some members will be out with their pitch folks chanting your name!! haha

----------


## --->>405<<---

> oh my, how dare you utter that phrase on here! some members will be out with their pitch folks chanting your name!! haha


LOL.. good! then itll have the exact effect i intended!  :0jackson:

----------


## Mostly-fat

Damn dude that's the body I'm looking for... no homo lol what's your weight in pounds start to now?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Damn dude that's the body I'm looking for... no homo lol what's your weight in pounds start to now?


no prob man! 

start: 213lbs 26.6%bf 5'9"

now: 190lbs @10%bf (give or take) 5'9"

for comparison:

----------


## Times Roman

> i think ur rite as i have gotten stronger and the pics do show some LBM gain. ive also lost 10lbs of weight. and ur rite i am on a cutting diet of sorts! one i have a lot of confidence in that goes against a lot i used to believe! has to do with *NUTRIENT TIMING* 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!! guess ill have to find another seasonal gig!


How's it going 405? thought I'd put my head in the door and say hello

I've actually got a book called nutrient timing.

----------


## Mostly-fat

Man that's pretty impressive.. I'm basically looking for the same transformation going from beer gut to cut lol I have similar hidden muscle, but im taller and fatter too. thanks a lot for this little piece of inspiration man..

----------


## Tron3219

Lookin impressive, got me mirin! Hahahaha but for real, good job bud! 

I'm in the same boat as you, I believed the conventional cutting methods to b the only way. There has been a lot of light shed on that in the past couple weeks with me working fasting into my progress. Shedding fat fast maintaining lbm and actually getting a tad stronger. Tell me I should fast a few months ago and I would have said ur crazy lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

> How's it going 405? thought I'd put my head in the door and say hello
> I've actually got a book called nutrient timing.


hey TR thx for stoppn by! feel free to frequent buddy!  :Smilie:  i bet that book has some good stuff in it. im learning a lot about nutrient timing myself. its surprising how big of an impact it can actually make!




> Man that's pretty impressive.. I'm basically looking for the same transformation going from beer gut to cut lol I have similar hidden muscle, but im taller and fatter too. thanks a lot for this little piece of inspiration man..


hey u CAN DO IT man! just keep getting on this site and logging! ive been logging daily for a year. that before pic was taken last october.




> Lookin impressive, got me mirin! Hahahaha but for real, good job bud! 
> 
> I'm in the same boat as you, I believed the conventional cutting methods to b the only way. There has been a lot of light shed on that in the past couple weeks with me working fasting into my progress. Shedding fat fast maintaining lbm and actually getting a tad stronger. Tell me I should fast a few months ago and I would have said ur crazy lol


thx Tron  :Smilie:  glad to see the fasting is workn out for u dude! i think i will be incorporating fasting in all types diets: cut, bulk, maintenance.. just changing the frequency  :Smilie:

----------


## Hydroponics

Lookin good!

----------


## Mostly-fat

I'm saving those before and after pics for motivation.. Not Gay I promise lol

----------


## Back In Black

> no prob man! 
> 
> start: 213lbs 26.6%bf 5'9"
> 
> now: 190lbs @10%bf (give or take) 5'9"
> 
> for comparison:


Which is which?  :Wink: 

Mate, I'm coming to you for advice when I start lifting again.

Pleased to see you are shifting some proper weight nowadays, one of the best fat burning tools is more LBM!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Which is which? 
> 
> Mate, I'm coming to you for advice when I start lifting again.
> 
> Pleased to see you are shifting some proper weight nowadays, one of the best fat burning tools is more LBM!


LOL.. funny fella  :Wink:  ill be glad to see u lifting again.

----------


## gbrice75

Looking damn good bro... the wheels have either come up A LOT, or the last pics we were using to compare were crappy. Now I understand why you squat so much more than me, lol - wheels definitely got me beat.  :Smilie:

----------


## RaginCajun

nice progress! you look even leaner from the last bunch of pics.

i know you said you are fasting and carb cycling, how do you have it laid out again on a weekly basis?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Looking damn good bro... the wheels have either come up A LOT, or the last pics we were using to compare were crappy. Now I understand why you squat so much more than me, lol - wheels definitely got me beat.


thx man! ive been working hard thats for sure. even more important (IMO) ive been dedicated in the kitchen. that to me is where the rubber meets the road! yeh i think the lighting in these recent pics is just better than the other one i sent u. only about 4weeks difference between the 2.




> nice progress! you look even leaner from the last bunch of pics.
> 
> i know you said you are fasting and carb cycling, how do you have it laid out again on a weekly basis?


thx cajun  :Smilie:  ill post up a rundown here a little later, right now i have to get this cardio done!

----------


## Brick

405 looking forward to your post about carb cycling and fasting. I work a busy job and only have time to have a quick shake in a 4-8 hour shift and have been thinking about incorporating fasting into my routine. I'll wait until you lay out what you're doing now before I ask specific questions!

----------


## --->>405<<---

sure thing man.

----------


## canesfan804

Damn! You did that in 1 year? Thats some nice work. I did some carb backloading with intermitten fasting a couple mos ago. Liked it alot but I couldnt hit my macros to gain. Lost weight even without cardio. Had to go back to conventional diet to bulk. I do think I will go back when its time to cut tho.

----------


## --->>405<<---

man it was freaking beast mode in the gym today! prob the best workout i ever had! didnt work so had no time constraints. did:

bench, shoulder press, deads, rows.. 

flat bench:
135 x 10
185 x 8
225 x 6
275 x 5
295 x 5
305 x 5
275 x 10
225 x 8

100lb DBs x 10
100lb DBs x 10

shoulder:
135 x 10
185 x 8
225 x 5
225 x 5
185 x 5

rows:
150 x 10
180 x 10
200 x 5
200 x 8
200 x 10

deads:
135 x 10
225 x 8
315 x 5
315 x 5
315 x 5

need to increase weight here. just a little concerned about back (which is fine) just wanna make sure it stays that way which is why im not going real heavy. 

i did some extra on chest just cuz i had extra energy. i felt like an animal in there. maybe cuz i downloaded "Bodies" (Drowning Pool) for ipod and bought some decent headphones and put it on repeat..

----------


## Bodacious

Damn 405 u still at it. Great work man. I have lost all motivation. How do you keep urs going? Or have u taken few weeks off? I come back on here to see if it helps.lol. I have posted some pics of where I start and where I was. I have gain some back 3-4 lbs. Just don't got the drive. I need help. Lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Damn 405 u still at it. Great work man. I have lost all motivation. How do you keep urs going? Or have u taken few weeks off? I come back on here to see if it helps.lol. I have posted some pics of where I start and where I was. I have gain some back 3-4 lbs. Just don't got the drive. I need help. Lol


shoot yeh im still at it man! Lord willing ill be lifting til i drop dead! how long has it been since u were on here?? and NO i dont take weeks off. a few days here and there but never a week! have u gone mad!!?  :Wink:

----------


## LiveFitBeFit

looking forward to the carb cycling/fasting post! :0

----------


## --->>405<<---

> looking forward to the carb cycling/fasting post! :0


*behold the carb cycle/fasting post:*

cycle ur carbs.. and do some fasting..

the end.  :Thumps Up:  LOL

----------


## Brick

> behold the carb cycle/fasting post:
> 
> cycle ur carbs.. and do some fasting..
> 
> the end.  LOL


Ah...

With fasting do you make up the calories in other meals.
Example. 2500 calories a day. 
Meal 1 8am 500 cal
Meal 2 1030 500 cal
Meal 3 1230 500 cal
Fast till 830 500 cal
1100 500 cal

----------


## Tron3219

> Ah...
> 
> With fasting do you make up the calories in other meals.
> Example. 2500 calories a day.
> Meal 1 8am 500 cal
> Meal 2 1030 500 cal
> Meal 3 1230 500 cal
> Fast till 830 500 cal
> 1100 500 cal


If I'm not mistaken I believe 405 does an "alternate day fast". I think he eats tdee on workout days as normal and on no workout days he has one meal 24hours after his last meal the prior day, like a pound of chicken and some lettuce, something like 1200-1500 cals, no carbs. Then goes to bed and starts over on lifting day meals. At least I THINK that's what he's doing. We've talked about so much different nutritional stuff lately I could be WAAAAY off lol but I think that's the general idea of what he's doing

----------


## Brick

> If I'm not mistaken I believe 405 does an "alternate day fast". I think he eats tdee on workout days as normal and on no workout days he has one meal 24hours after his last meal the prior day, like a pound of chicken and some lettuce, something like 1200-1500 cals, no carbs. Then goes to bed and starts over on lifting day meals. At least I THINK that's what he's doing. We've talked about so much different nutritional stuff lately I could be WAAAAY off lol but I think that's the general idea of what he's doing


Christ that's a long time without eating! I'll wait back for confirmation but thanks Tron!

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL.. yeh bucka didnt mean to leave u hanging that long! 

tron is pretty much correct. this is what im doing:

EOD workouts 2 day split: upper/lower - all BIG lifts such as bench, shoulder press, deads, rows 3 work sets as heavy as i can go for 5 reps. i havent done a curl or tricep exercise in 2 months... 

current stats: 190lbs 10%bf = 171lbs LBM = 2565 rough maintenance
workout day diet: 3500cals 
300-350g carbs (all consumed *PRE workout*) - last carb meal high GI (cereal and/or oats with brown sugar and banana)
also consume about 150g protein pre workout

5g Leucine intra-workout

PWO: ZERO carbs whey isolate 50g worth

1lb chikn (about hr or 2 after shake eaten by itself)

1lb ground beef + [big spinach salad --->(5hrs minimum PWO)] usually eat this by 20:00

*works out to approx: 3500cals, 400g pro, 350g carbs, 50-60g fat*

non-workout day: 1000-1200cals ZERO starch carbs
wake up fast 11 hrs -->>(after waking time)
eat 1lb beef + big spinach salad (this is usually 21-24hrs after my last meal the day before)

i also do 90mins cardio split into one 60min session (moderate) + one 30min session (light intervals) both of which are fasted..

repeat..  :Smilie:

----------


## Brick

Christ man! You are intense! Thanks for the update!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Christ man! You are intense! Thanks for the update!


just trying to get it done man!

----------


## SlimmerMe

:Happybunch: Congratulations 405! You have earned staff! Happy for you!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Congratulations 405! You have earned staff! Happy for you!


thx slim!  :Smilie:  hope ur doing well BTW! good to see u!

----------


## Back In Black

We'll done buddy boy. You know we're no longer knowledgeable though :Wink:

----------


## RaginCajun

> LOL.. yeh bucka didnt mean to leave u hanging that long! 
> 
> tron is pretty much correct. this is what im doing:
> 
> EOD workouts 2 day split: upper/lower - all BIG lifts such as bench, shoulder press, deads, rows 3 work sets as heavy as i can go for 5 reps. i havent done a curl or tricep exercise in 2 months... 
> 
> current stats: 190lbs 10%bf = 171lbs LBM = 2565 rough maintenance
> workout day diet: 3500cals 
> 300-350g carbs (all consumed *PRE workout*) - last carb meal high GI (cereal and/or oats with brown sugar and banana)
> ...


i like this!

congrats on the Monitor title and the C note!

so, full body WO EOD and fasting for 24hrs EOD on cardio days.

on fasting days, are doing ECA stack?

read your thread in the lounge, crazy timing because i was about to PM and ask just that!

CRAZY!

----------


## human project

> LOL.. yeh bucka didnt mean to leave u hanging that long!
> 
> tron is pretty much correct. this is what im doing:
> 
> EOD workouts 2 day split: upper/lower - all BIG lifts such as bench, shoulder press, deads, rows 3 work sets as heavy as i can go for 5 reps. i havent done a curl or tricep exercise in 2 months...
> 
> current stats: 190lbs 10%bf = 171lbs LBM = 2565 rough maintenance
> workout day diet: 3500cals
> 300-350g carbs (all consumed PRE workout) - last carb meal high GI (cereal and/or oats with brown sugar and banana)
> ...


I might give something like this a try when I start cutting. Where did you get this idea for your program??

----------


## --->>405<<---

> We'll done buddy boy. You know we're no longer knowledgeable though


LOL.. 




> i like this!
> 
> congrats on the Monitor title and the C note!
> 
> so, full body WO EOD and fasting for 24hrs EOD on cardio days.
> 
> on fasting days, are doing ECA stack?
> 
> read your thread in the lounge, crazy timing because i was about to PM and ask just that!
> ...


thx cajun! no ECA. not total body: upper body one day, off/cardio/fast, lower body, off/cardio/fast




> I might give something like this a try when I start cutting. Where did you get this idea for your program??


yeh its pretty good man! fasting is very effective combined with cycling carbs.

----------


## digsy1983

Well done man! 

An incredible year, you've achieved so much in a relatively short time. Great efforts and colossal dedication, both personal and for.others!

----------


## human project

All I can say is holy shit bro..... Nice work

----------


## human project

Have you hit 405 yet???

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Well done man! 
> 
> An incredible year, you've achieved so much in a relatively short time. Great efforts and colossal dedication, both personal and for.others!


digsy thx man! has been a great year!  :Smilie: 




> All I can say is holy shit bro..... Nice work





> Have you hit 405 yet???


thx HP! and NO not yet! YET being the operative term. i will prob go for 365 soon and i think i can get that. once i get that itll be on! the good part is im getting stronger and cutting! im sure when i bulk/maintain itll happen!

----------


## joebailey1271

Great stuff 405, U help keep me motivated. When i wanna say f this, i see you made progress and wanna keep going.

----------


## --->>405<<---

joe thx man! glad i can help!

looking leaner today than yesterday  :Smilie:  it seems as though im starting to run out of body fat! a good thing to be happening! i like it!!

----------


## RaginCajun

> joe thx man! glad i can help!
> 
> looking leaner today than yesterday  it seems as though im starting to run out of body fat! a good thing to be happening! i like it!!


I wish I could say I'm running out of body fat!

Great work 405!

----------


## Tron3219

> joe thx man! glad i can help!
> 
> looking leaner today than yesterday  it seems as though im starting to run out of body fat! a good thing to be happening! i like it!!


I know whatcha mean! Every since I started this IF (it has somewhat of a carb cycle, high/low eod) it seems like it pushed me past the stagnant progress I was. I was real skeptical about energy levels in the gym and overall, but it's not really effecting me. Thanks for the heads up bro, opened my eyes wide!

Btw, congrats r in order as well.

-TroN

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx tron and im glad its working out for u man!  :Smilie: 

i havent even had to start cutting carbs yet on my workout days (currently 350g - which is an option if stagnation occurs). another option is to have 2 fast days and then one workout day and then repeat. many many options available!

----------


## Tron3219

> thx tron and im glad its working out for u man! 
> 
> i havent even had to start cutting carbs yet on my workout days (currently 350g - which is an option if stagnation occurs). another option is to have 2 fast days and then one workout day and then repeat. many many options available!


Agreed, I'm only at 280ish carbs on workout days, but I have 75 on non workout days. If I stall out I'll prolly cut all carbs on non workout days. 







Before IF and carb cycling and now, only a about 14 days apart

-TroN

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ awesome dude! very noticeable difference! u and i have the same problem area. the lower back love handles ! i freaking hate em! i could have an 8 pack and would still not be happy until all the fat back there is gone! its getting there for both of us!  :Smilie:

----------


## Tron3219

> ^^ awesome dude! very noticeable difference! u and i have the same problem area. the lower back love handles ! i freaking hate em! i could have an 8 pack and would still not be happy until all the fat back there is gone! its getting there for both of us!


Fvck yeah....damn love handles...
Have you ever used yohimbine hcl? I've done a little reading on it, it "supposedly" works on the a2 receptors to help fat oxidation in those troubled areas because there is supposed to b an abundance of a2 receptors in the lower back, lower ab and chest area.

-TroN

----------


## --->>405<<---

actually im taking a supplement called Burn rite now that has yohimbine HCL + caffeine in it. just as an added bonus. i am leaning out. i go back and forth between 1 capsule and 2 capsules. i took 2 a couple days ago and felt jacked like a mofo. enuff to back down to 1 LOL.. i guess im getting old!  :Smilie: 

will prob take 2 again today. usually i take em twice per day. the bottle says u can take as much as 3 capsules 3x per day but after doing 2x2 i dont think so!

----------


## Tron3219

> actually im taking a supplement called Burn rite now that has yohimbine HCL + caffeine in it. just as an added bonus. i am leaning out. i go back and forth between 1 capsule and 2 capsules. i took 2 a couple days ago and felt jacked like a mofo. enuff to back down to 1 LOL.. i guess im getting old! 
> 
> will prob take 2 again today. usually i take em twice per day. the bottle says u can take as much as 3 capsules 3x per day but after doing 2x2 i dont think so!


Hahahaha I'm kinda curious if it works. I bet that burn rite is a good appetite suppressant during ur fast times. I was thinking I was gonna need an appetite suppressant, but it's getting easier. I just ordered my bac water (btw if u choose to do so, Tom's doesn't come with it) I'm gonna b pinning mod grf(1-29)/ghrp2 either at the beginning of my fast to kick start lypolysis or around the 10 hour mark since they say lypolysis is maximized between the 13th and 16th hour. See if I can't get about 6 hours of hard core lypolysis goin on

-TroN

----------


## Back In Black

> actually im taking a supplement called Burn rite now that has yohimbine HCL + caffeine in it. just as an added bonus. i am leaning out. i go back and forth between 1 capsule and 2 capsules. i took 2 a couple days ago and felt jacked like a mofo. enuff to back down to 1 LOL.. i guess im getting old! 
> 
> will prob take 2 again today. usually i take em twice per day. the bottle says u can take as much as 3 capsules 3x per day but after doing 2x2 i dont think so!


Ooh, you little devil! Never say never!

----------


## gbrice75

Lower back fat!?!? PFFT!! You 2 have NOTHING on me. My lower back fat makes my waist almost in line with my fcking (narrow) shoulders!!!  :Frown:

----------


## Tron3219

> Lower back fat!?!? PFFT!! You 2 have NOTHING on me. My lower back fat makes my waist almost in line with my fcking (narrow) shoulders!!!


I'm gonna have to call buttocks lol

-TroN

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Ooh, you little devil! Never say never!


LOL.. the Yohimbine HCL was an incidental ingredient!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Lower back fat!?!? PFFT!! You 2 have NOTHING on me. My lower back fat makes my waist almost in line with my fcking (narrow) shoulders!!!


yeh but ur eatn good aint ya!  :Wink: 

of course so am i. esp EOD!  :Smilie:

----------


## gbrice75

> I'm gonna have to call buttocks lol
> 
> -TroN


I'd post a pic to prove it to you... but i'm too embarrassed. Plus, it'd ruin my fairly good reputation here on the board, lmao!




> yeh but ur eatn good aint ya! 
> 
> of course so am i. esp EOD!


A little TOO good my friend, lol. Ever had peppermint bark? Yea. THAT kind of good. lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^LOL... yeh my wife enjoys stressing herself out by volunteering to coordinate weddings so as a result i picked up some marscarpone cheese yesterday so she can run a trial batch of cheese injected cupcakes with butter cream frosting which are to be served at the engagement party thats upcoming.

im sure u can guess who one of the taste test judges is gonna be!  :Smilie:

----------


## gbrice75

> ^^LOL... yeh my wife enjoys stressing herself out by volunteering to coordinate weddings so as a result i picked up some marscarpone cheese yesterday so she can run a trial batch of cheese injected cupcakes with butter cream frosting which are to be served at the engagement party thats upcoming.
> 
> im sure u can guess who one of the taste test judges is gonna be!


But of course! After all, you/we are food aficionados!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> But of course! After all, you/we are food aficionados!


oh yeh! its nice to love what u do!  :Wink: 

im still thinking how we could have an "eat off" at the buffet! maybe we could each bring a scale and weigh our plates at each sitting for a combined total at the end. of course we would be on the honor system.. itd be interesting to see where we stack up. even with other people who wanted to join in. 

id love a good excuse to go to a buffet and pig out! of course the more people involved the more likely to have some.. uh umm.. truth stretchers!  :Wink: 

i for one could guarantee my honesty and i have no questions about u either.

----------


## Tron3219

> oh yeh! its nice to love what u do! 
> 
> im still thinking how we could have an "eat off" at the buffet! maybe we could each bring a scale and weigh our plates at each sitting for a combined total at the end. of course we would be on the honor system.. itd be interesting to see where we stack up. even with other people who wanted to join in.
> 
> id love a good excuse to go to a buffet and pig out! of course the more people involved the more likely to have some.. uh umm.. truth stretchers! 
> 
> i for one could guarantee my honesty and i have no questions about u either.


Oh pick me! Pick me! Me and buffets are best friends and yet worst enemies!

-TroN

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Oh pick me! Pick me! Me and buffets are best friends and yet worst enemies!
> 
> -TroN


LOL.. yeh i know what u mean. ill see who we can get involved in this. seems like itd be a fun idea!

----------


## Brick

> LOL.. yeh i know what u mean. ill see who we can get involved in this. seems like itd be a fun idea!


After a workout, when I'm not counting calories, I swear I eat more clean food then I do in a day of cutting (2200)! 

I remember one time I did back and cardio then went to work. Ate two chicken breasts, a large sweet potato and ten asparagus spears. I then ate the same meal again because I had it packed twice. Afterwards I washed it down with 200g extra lean ground pork and another sweet potato. Desert was coffee with sugar and cream. Mmmmm

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ we're talking buffet line not clean food! pizza, chinese food, chikn wings.. something along those lines

----------


## Brick

> ^^ we're talking buffet line not clean food! pizza, chinese food, chikn wings.. something along those lines


I was to embarrassed to say how much I used to eat at those!

----------


## gbrice75

As long as it's in NY/NJ - I'm in!!!  :Big Grin:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> As long as it's in NY/NJ - I'm in!!!


yeh i was thinking how we could do it where anyone that wanted to could do it. obviously i realize the somewhat impracticality of it but it seems like a fun idea! itd more be an idea of arranging some type of time window where we would each go to the same type restaurant in our respective locales with a digital food scale and eat the same (or very similar) thing and weigh each plate before consuming it. the final plate could be weighed at the beginning and end (if there was food still left) and subtracted from the total to get the net amt eaten. i would assume if i could complete a plate id be going back for another so chances are the last plate would have food on it. 

like i said i do recognize it being a longshot but it seemed fun and id do it..  :Smilie: 

i think certain measures could be taken to ensure the quantities are measurable with a fair degree of accuracy. assuming we are honest!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> oh yeh! its nice to love what u do! 
> 
> im still thinking how we could have an "eat off" at the buffet! maybe we could each bring a scale and weigh our plates at each sitting for a combined total at the end. of course we would be on the honor system.. itd be interesting to see where we stack up. even with other people who wanted to join in. 
> 
> id love a good excuse to go to a buffet and pig out! of course the more people involved the more likely to have some.. uh umm.. truth stretchers! 
> 
> i for one could guarantee my honesty and i have no questions about u either.





> Oh pick me! Pick me! Me and buffets are best friends and yet worst enemies!
> 
> -TroN





> After a workout, when I'm not counting calories, I swear I eat more clean food then I do in a day of cutting (2200)! 
> 
> I remember one time I did back and cardio then went to work. Ate two chicken breasts, a large sweet potato and ten asparagus spears. I then ate the same meal again because I had it packed twice. Afterwards I washed it down with 200g extra lean ground pork and another sweet potato. Desert was coffee with sugar and cream. Mmmmm





> As long as it's in NY/NJ - I'm in!!!


my favorite role models of the nutritional forum.........off to the all i can eat buffet LOL

----------


## Brick

> my favorite role models of the nutritional forum.........off to the all i can eat buffet LOL


Lol girly! I think we are all leaving out a crucial point! The days leading up to and following would most likely be minimalist diet and the intensity of our workouts! We all love competition but I don't think we would sacrifice our hard work to win!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Lol girly! I think we are all leaving out a crucial point! The days leading up to and following would most likely be minimalist diet and the intensity of our workouts! We all love competition but I don't think we would sacrifice our hard work to win!


Oops. I just wattlled out of the all I could stuff myself buffet. Lol.

----------


## human project

> digsy thx man! has been a great year! 
> 
> thx HP! and NO not yet! YET being the operative term. i will prob go for 365 soon and i think i can get that. once i get that itll be on! the good part is im getting stronger and cutting! im sure when i bulk/maintain itll happen!


Good luck 405!!!! With what you've accomplished this year there's no doubt in my mind it won't be long. One thing that really made my bench jump was really focusing on hitting "the j" or as others call it "the fish hook". It's kinda like making a j motion where you kinda make a curve and push up and back through your sticking point.

----------


## human project

> Good luck 405!!!! With what you've accomplished this year there's no doubt in my mind it won't be long. One thing that really made my bench jump was really focusing on hitting "the j" or as others call it "the fish hook". It's kinda like making a j motion where you kinda make a curve and push up and back through your sticking point.


When I first started tryin this my bench actually went down but after I got it down it flew up

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Good luck 405!!!! With what you've accomplished this year there's no doubt in my mind it won't be long. One thing that really made my bench jump was really focusing on hitting "the j" or as others call it "the fish hook". It's kinda like making a j motion where you kinda make a curve and push up and back through your sticking point.





> When I first started tryin this my bench actually went down but after I got it down it flew up


i appreciate it man, yeh ive seen what ur talking about on some u tube vids.  :Smilie:

----------


## Brick

> i appreciate it man, yeh ive seen what ur talking about on some u tube vids.


I never liked the J myself. I feel like the best path of movement for any exercise is whatever feels natural AND follows the way the body is designed to move. 

For me to jump my bench I did this: 

1) really warming up my rotators so there wouldn't be any grinding or pain

2) warming up my triceps even more than my chest. Especially for the top of the movement when they really assist

3) focus on 'muscle mind' connection. Thinking about what muscle is being worked 

4) PUSHING the bar away as if i was pushing the world away

5) one or the other (or both!). Do back the day before or do BB Ross or deadlifts right before you bench

----------


## --->>405<<---

well guys its time to crank it up a notch. carbs are being reduced from 350g EOD to 200g EOD.. lets get it done!  :Smilie: 

also ran 6-7 miles today (fasted) on a whim. havent been running in 6 months. got a compliment from a drunk redneck guy on how i look LOL..

----------


## --->>405<<---

tuff leg workout today. wasnt really motivated but i got it done!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

to the BOD POD i go!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

*yeh baby!*

*BOD POD*
*193.2lbs
9.9%bf*

----------


## gbrice75

Looking great bro!!! The wheels are really thick, that's what I'd be proudest of lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Looking great bro!!! The wheels are really thick, that's what I'd be proudest of lol


thx man! this is the first time ive had reliable documented data reflecting my bf% this low! started at 13.1% BOD POD 6 weeks ago! another 3% to go and i think i will be approaching leanness satisfaction!  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Well done mate, at 10% on that reading you are, in reality, less than 8%. A world away from last year :Smilie: 

What does the read out suggest is the minimum amount of essential fat?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Well done mate, at 10% on that reading you are, in reality, less than 8%. A world away from last year
> 
> What does the read out suggest is the minimum amount of essential fat?


thx pal! and its 9.9%!!! LOL.. 

handout says 2-5% which we know is a bit high (5%) for essential. typically from what ive seen its 3-4%..

it does say <5% is "risky" (low body fat)

----------


## --->>405<<---

upon further reflection i think itd be fair to say i have indeed reached my initial goal in post # 1 of this thread!!!

----------


## Back In Black

> upon further reflection i think itd be fair to say i have indeed reached my initial goal in post # 1 of this thread!!!


Agreed. Give it up for a while, get fat again, and see how quick you can get back to where you are now!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Agreed. Give it up for a while, get fat again, and see how quick you can get back to where you are now!


well just because it was my initial goal.. doesnt mean its my current goal!  :Wink:

----------


## RaginCajun

hey 405, looking good man!

9.9%, well done!

now, you just need to learn how to flex so you can compete!

----------


## Tron3219

Good on ya man! 

How tall r u? We are fairly close in lbm, I calculate mine at around 179, prolly a few more pounds of fat, but u look beefier then me lol

What did ur lbm start at for ur first bod pod?

-TroN

----------


## --->>405<<---

5'9" 

Starting stats: (bod pod)
213 lbs
26.6%bf
156.34lbs LBM
56.66 lbs FAT

Current stats: (bod pod)
193.2 lbs 
9.9%bf
174.07 lbs LBM
19.13lbs FAT

37.53 lbs pure fat lost
17.73 lbs LBM gained
Bf% drop: 16.7%

----------


## Tron3219

> 5'9"
> 
> Starting stats: (bod pod)
> 213 lbs
> 26.6%bf
> 156.34lbs LBM
> 56.66 lbs FAT
> 
> Current stats: (bod pod)
> ...


Well that would explain it! I'm 3 inches taller then u lol but damn nice recomp bro! Proud of ya! *tear*

-TroN

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Well that would explain it! I'm 3 inches taller then u lol but damn nice recomp bro! Proud of ya! *tear*
> 
> -TroN


thx man!  :Smilie:

----------


## human project

> upon further reflection i think itd be fair to say i have indeed reached my initial goal in post # 1 of this thread!!!


Have you hit 405 on bench yet??

----------


## --->>405<<---

not yet! :

initial goal being sub 12% bf.. its in post # 1 of this thread..

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

Nice job bud, looking great. 

Now time to get swole.  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Nice job bud, looking great. 
> 
> Now time to get swole.


LOL.. I hear ya sarge! How would u suggest i do that?  :Wink:

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

Not that I'd know but maybe lots of food, weights, and hormones?  :Smilie:

----------


## eazyduzit

**** yeah 405 you machine, 9.9% good work mate! Hope all has been well

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Not that I'd know but maybe lots of *food, weights, and hormones*?


call me crazy but that just might work!  :Smilie: 

right now im still on journey downward. looking for 6-7% bf (BOD POD). after this i will maintain for awhile to establish myself at this bf% and then lean bulk. id like to try to keep my bf% in a range of 6-12% when bulking.. cut at 12.. we'll see. itll take some time but ive got that  :Smilie: 





> **** yeah 405 you machine, 9.9% good work mate! Hope all has been well


thx eazy.. how has UD2 been treating u? still on it? if not how low did u get? all is well!  :Smilie:

----------


## human project

[QUOTE="--->>405<<---"]
call me crazy but that just might work!  :Smilie: 

right now im still on journey downward. looking for 6-7% bf (BOD POD). after this i will maintain for awhile to establish myself at this bf% and then lean bulk. id like to try to keep my bf% in a range of 6-12% when bulking.. cut at 12.. we'll see. itll take some time but ive got that  :Smilie: 

This is exactly what I do. Anytime I break over 12% into 13's I start a cut until I'm back down under 10%. Usually closer to 8%. I almost feel as if I gain the most muscle bulking from 8-10% but that could be attributed to how much bigger you actually look once you break 10%. Great job 405 I can't say enough about your progress over this past year.

----------


## Papiriqui

> *yeh baby!*
> 
> *BOD POD*
> *193.2lbs
> 9.9%bf*


Now this is what i like coming back to!!!! Congrats man!!! Never doubted you!!! You are looking amazing my friend!! As always keep up the good work!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Now this is what i like coming back to!!!! Congrats man!!! Never doubted you!!! You are looking amazing my friend!! As always keep up the good work!


*PAP!!! wassuuuuppp!!!*   :0jackson:

----------


## Back In Black

> PAP!!! wassuuuuppp!!!


Ha ha, I've seen him lurking recently as he's about to revisit the darkside (lucky boy).

BTW, crumpet......



Just needs to be heavily buttered!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Ha ha, I've seen him lurking recently as he's about to revisit the darkside (lucky boy).
> 
> BTW, crumpet......
> 
> 
> 
> Just needs to be heavily buttered!


ill have to chek out his started threads. 

also that "crumpet" is what we here call an english muffin!!

----------


## Back In Black

> ill have to chek out his started threads. 
> 
> also that "crumpet" is what we here call an english muffin!!


Nah mate, that's not a muffin that we have over here. I'm having one for brekko in the morning I'll take a pic of one for you then you can tell me you call them something else!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Nah mate, that's not a muffin that we have over here. I'm having one for brekko in the morning I'll take a pic of one for you then you can tell me you call them something else!


looks like an english muffin to me.. here is 2 pics of muffins. first one is the english muffin, second is the standard muffin  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Yeah, that's a muffin! 

Crumpets are very different in texture and has holes in the outside, the butter runs right through them. You don't split them like an English muffin.



Did your woofer come home mate?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Not yet. Sad wife..

----------


## --->>405<<---

last nites dinner:

the first one needs no explanation, the second pic is a homemade shake with vanilla breyers ice cream, butterfinger bar, 2 reeses PB cups, milk.. dang good! my own homemade blizzard! (lunk)  :Wink: 

id also like to note i requested fresh baked hot bread with butter so my wife bought 4 loaves like shown in the pic. i ate 2 of em. plus another half chikn plus more potatoes.. basically take that pic and multiply it times 2 and thats what i ate  :Smilie: 

i asked my wife if she minded if i got back to 26%bf again so we could eat like that every nite. her response: "its up to you" .. she does not cook like i do! when i do the cooking, below is how we eat, when im on my diet she cooks for her and our daughter and its NOT like the pic below. dont get me wrong she can cook well she just does not usually apply herself. to her credit the only thing i actually cooked in the pic is the chikn. 

also the potatoes shown below are pretty good. cut up red potatoes tossed in EVOO, coated with salt, pepper, thyme, rosemary. baked in the oven for about an hr on a cookie sheet. i highly recommend them!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

id like to note here im noticing why people do cutting cycles. i have reduced carbs to 200g EOD pre-workout and have been a bit weaker in the gym. it seems to keep fat coming off past this point of 9-10% i may have to increase frequency of fasting days and/or keep carbs where they are and i can see where a cycle of test or tren would help with strength as well as ability to further reduce cals/carbs without losing LBM.. 

now i am starting to get it  :Wink:

----------


## human project

> id like to note here im noticing why people do cutting cycles. i have reduced carbs to 200g EOD pre-workout and have been a bit weaker in the gym. it seems to keep fat coming off past this point of 9-10% i may have to increase frequency of fasting days and/or keep carbs where they are and i can see where a cycle of test or tren would help with strength as well as ability to further reduce cals/carbs without losing LBM..
> 
> now i am starting to get it


How long do you take to eat the 200g of carbs pre workout? Do you eat any carbs post or there after?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> How long do you take to eat the 200g of carbs pre workout? Do you eat any carbs post or there after?


3 meals, last meal 1-2hrs pre.. no PWO carbs. part of my protocol which is workin well.

----------


## human project

> 3 meals, last meal 1-2hrs pre.. no PWO carbs. part of my protocol which is workin well.


What is your macro breakdown?? How many meals a day

----------


## --->>405<<---

400g pro
200g carb
50-60g fat

6 meals

----------


## rooftop

> 3 meals, last meal 1-2hrs pre.. no PWO carbs. part of my protocol which is workin well.


No pwo carbs? Isn't that the best time to store/ replace glycogen?

----------


## Papiriqui

> Ha ha, I've seen him lurking recently as he's about to revisit the darkside (lucky boy).
> 
> BTW, crumpet......
> 
> 
> 
> Just needs to be heavily buttered!


Never left the dark side LOL just been slacking a little but still going, at least maintained, havent gained. Started back strong today though!!! Although i have missed you guys, talking to you and all. Hopefully soon i'll be posting a new thread for bulk..........

----------


## Papiriqui

> last nites dinner:
> 
> the first one needs no explanation, the second pic is a homemade shake with vanilla breyers ice cream, butterfinger bar, 2 reeses PB cups, milk.. dang good! my own homemade blizzard! (lunk) 
> 
> id also like to note i requested fresh baked hot bread with butter so my wife bought 4 loaves like shown in the pic. i ate 2 of em. plus another half chikn plus more potatoes.. basically take that pic and multiply it times 2 and thats what i ate 
> 
> i asked my wife if she minded if i got back to 26%bf again so we could eat like that every nite. her response: "its up to you" .. she does not cook like i do! when i do the cooking, below is how we eat, when im on my diet she cooks for her and our daughter and its NOT like the pic below. dont get me wrong she can cook well she just does not usually apply herself. to her credit the only thing i actually cooked in the pic is the chikn. 
> 
> also the potatoes shown below are pretty good. cut up red potatoes tossed in EVOO, coated with salt, pepper, thyme, rosemary. baked in the oven for about an hr on a cookie sheet. i highly recommend them!


Ohhhhhhh myyyyyyyyy gooooooood that looks great!!!! I see you opened a thread in the AAS side, cant wait what you can do with that push man!!!! The force is strong with you!!!! LOL

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Ohhhhhhh myyyyyyyyy gooooooood that looks great!!!! I see you opened a thread in the AAS side, cant wait what you can do with that push man!!!! The force is strong with you!!!! LOL


LOL.. yeh thx pap! itll be a little while yet. i dont have time to cut to where i want to, bulk, then cut again before summer.. i may go for a somewhat lean bulk and add some stuff in. just brainstorming right now.  :Smilie:  ill be looking for ur bulking thread!

----------


## Papiriqui

> LOL.. yeh thx pap! itll be a little while yet. i dont have time to cut to where i want to, bulk, then cut again before summer.. i may go for a somewhat lean bulk and add some stuff in. just brainstorming right now.  ill be looking for ur bulking thread!


Hopefully by march is up and running, thats if i dont set myself back by cheating lol. Definitely have a strong feeling about this time around!!! Cant wait to see your results bud!! Definitely need motivation for my bulk as well  :Wink:

----------


## Bodacious

Dang 405 just looked at the meal you had. Damn that looks good. Got a quick question for you what is fasting??? Just wondering. Thanks

----------


## Back In Black

Mate, I'm currently down about 7lbs in 3 day due to a super long fast and an unpleasant cases of the Tom Tits.

Do you think the Kitchen Aid Mixer that i bought for the Mrs will help me regain my lost 'mass'  :Wink: 

How ya doing big man?

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL.. Damn those tom tits!!  :Wink: 

Let me know if u can locate a pink kitchen aid mixer! My wife has been looking for one for awhile. Im doing well! Getting veins startn to pop in stomach area. At gym now bout to hit 60min fasted cardio session 1 for the day. 

Lookn forward to the pound and a quarter of 93/7 beef i get to eat tonite when i break my fast about 1800-1900.. I dont get beef with that much fat often! Whats funny is most people would consider that pretty lean, for me its a splurge only cuz store was out of 96/4!!

And yes i believe the mixer could not only help u regain lost mass but also accumulate some "new mass" if u like!!  :Wink:

----------


## Back In Black

You can get pink ones over here. About £450. I reckon that's about $700. Depends what colour pink, can you not get the charity edition one? They are all manufactured over there. Maybe we just get the stuff you don't really want :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

ill have to chek into that.. 700bucks.. boy they sure do think highly of their mixers dont they!

----------


## Back In Black

> ill have to chek into that.. 700bucks.. boy they sure do think highly of their mixers dont they!


It's the import costs into this country. There about $400 in the states. It's a new pink charity one so you'll be able to get one, as long as its the right colour pink!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Dad gummit man $300 to import a $400 item!! Thats tuff!!

----------


## Back In Black

> Dad gummit man $300 to import a $400 item!! Thats tuff!!


To be fair, that one has a $50 price hike cos of the charity angle. The absolute best price I could get mine for was about $640. But yeah, still a whopping import/shipping cost.

Still, if the girl's gotta have it! Tell you what, if she's having it I'd better be getting it :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

its always nice when new veins start showing their smiling faces!  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Did your Towel 'fall off' sir?

Oblique and abs veins, I love mine!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Did your Rowell 'fall off' sir?
> 
> Oblique and abs veins, I love mine!


LOL.. u sure are a perceptive fellow!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i just came off my deload week and had a good lower body workout today.. a little tuff getting back into the routine after christmas and eating like a fat hog and wallowing around like one too  :Smilie:

----------


## RaginCajun

> well i just came off my deload week and had a good lower body workout today.. a little tuff getting back into the routine after christmas and eating like a fat hog and wallowing around like one too


Tell me about it!

I gained almost 6 pounds over that small stretch!

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL.. yeh mine was only 2 days.. the deload was a week but i maintained diet and cardio just went light in the gym..  :Smilie:

----------


## energizer bunny

Just finished reading this entire thread 405,,,,,amazing transformation mate!,,,,very motivational indeed.....excellent props on logging your progress. 

Im starting were you started body fat wise and atleast now i know with will power it can be done. thanks again.....

----------


## Back In Black

> Just finished reading this entire thread 405,,,,,amazing transformation mate!,,,,very motivational indeed.....excellent props on logging your progress.
> 
> Im starting were you started body fat wise and atleast now i know with will power it can be done. thanks again.....


Blimey, have you nowt better to do :Wink: 

Pleased you made your way over to this section mate, hopefully 2013 can be an amazing year for you in terms of physique change!

----------


## Back In Black

405, just popping in to say hi. You are so far ahead me right now. Haven't trained in 5 weeks since my op and some flu flu virus for the last 2 weeks has caused me to drop about 9lbs. Oh, and I just threw my back out again!

On the plus side, I feel my TRT kicking in and have 2 cycles planned so I reckon I'll be chasing you down by September!

----------


## energizer bunny

> Blimey, have you nowt better to do
> 
> Pleased you made your way over to this section mate, hopefully 2013 can be an amazing year for you in terms of physique change!


Cheers SteM, no more excuses im just going to get it done.....hopefully you and 405 will help me along the way.......

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 405, just popping in to say hi. You are so far ahead me right now. Haven't trained in 5 weeks since my op and some flu flu virus for the last 2 weeks has caused me to drop about 9lbs. Oh, and I just threw my back out again!
> 
> On the plus side, I feel my TRT kicking in and have 2 cycles planned so I reckon I'll be chasing you down by September!


how r u coming along with ur healing? 

2 cycles planned huh?? bulk and cutting cycles? what they gonna be? u also know ur gonna have to get dialed in with TRT first. ive been on 14months and am just starting to get close i think..

----------


## Back In Black

I seem to have full range if movement but I'm gonna be weak for a month. Hopefully start lifting in a week or so. Swelling an bruising gone but I have some weird 'divots' in the muscle where the glands used to be.

2013 is about lean bulking. Once I'm back up to speed I'll do a short burst lean bulk, then maintenance, then a short lean bulk again and see where I'm at.

TRT over here isn't like it is over there. I have pretty good numbers after 2 months on gel. We don't use AI's as standard in view of the long term health issues. I'm due my next blood test in march!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Cheers SteM, no more excuses im just going to get it done.....hopefully you and 405 will help me along the way.......


bunny were here to help pal! and man that mustve been a long read going thru the whole thread! i have learned a ton and grown a lot in my dietary knowledge thats for sure! now the best part is i feel in control of my body fat% and if i do gain any itll be deliberate as opposed to before when i just basically "hoped" i wouldnt get fat!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I seem to have full range if movement but I'm gonna be weak for a month. Hopefully start lifting in a week or so. Swelling an bruising gone but I have some weird 'divots' in the muscle where the glands used to be.
> 
> 2013 is about lean bulking. Once I'm back up to speed I'll do a short burst lean bulk, then maintenance, then a short lean bulk again and see where I'm at.
> 
> TRT over here isn't like it is over there. I have pretty good numbers after 2 months on gel. We don't use AI's as standard in view of the long term health issues. I'm due my next blood test in march!


sounds good! i was wondering what u were thinking of running gear-wise? and yes i am completely off AI now for going on 5 weeks. blood work next week to see where im at. feel good and dont think E2 will be issue after switching to subq.

----------


## Back In Black

Prop mate. It means I can do 6 week blasts and get more of them in. I'm thinking it will make maintenance easier on my body too and gradual gains should be better than whomping results every 10-12 week cycle.

We'll see if it all makes sense when I run it. TRT makes you evaluate it differently. 

What's your plans?

----------


## energizer bunny

> bunny were here to help pal! and man that mustve been a long read going thru the whole thread! i have learned a ton and grown a lot in my dietary knowledge thats for sure! now the best part is i feel in *control of my body fat%* and if i do gain any itll be deliberate as opposed to before when i just basically "hoped" i wouldnt get fat!


i it was fairly long mate about 8 hours, but well worth it!.......bold above is exactlly what im looking for....i want to have the knowledge and comitment to change my physique.

----------


## --->>405<<---

dont know mate. debating between cycling and not cycling. dont know if the risk is worth the reward. i have a decent physique for a regular guy now. i suppose i could add a bit more mass which i like but i havent given lean bulking a try yet especially wtih the new protocol i am on. 

i will prob continue to cut to 8% and maintain it thru the summer to establish that body composition and then probably try my hand at the lean bulk without AAS and see how i fare. this new style of diet has a lot of potential i think..

----------


## --->>405<<---

> i it was fairly long mate about 8 hours, but well worth it!.......bold above is exactlly what im looking for....i want to have the knowledge and comitment to change my physique.


u can get that here. eventually from what i have learned fasting is an awesome protocol!!! it enables u to maintain a lean physique and still cheat here and there and also have large meals when u dont cheat due to the fact that u havent eaten all day. it is also suppose to help with insulin sensitivity and other hormonal things i dont quite understand fully but still reap the benefits of!  :Smilie:

----------


## energizer bunny

> u can get that here. eventually from what i have learned fasting is an awesome protocol!!! it enables u to maintain a lean physique and still cheat here and there and also have large meals when u dont cheat due to the fact that u havent eaten all day. it is also suppose to help with insulin sensitivity and other hormonal things i dont quite understand fully but still reap the benefits of!


Ive done quite a bit of reading on IF and it sounds like something i will try in the future......tho im going to follow pretty much your exact path i.e standard split (change ratios untill i get whats best for me) then when i hit 15% BF change up to carb cycling, then when i hit 10% change up to IF......the way you have done it seems to me the best way, because you now know when and what to do for BF% control.

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh its pretty cool to see it put like that. for me having lived thru the experience it was a growth process. it took me a year to get here. for u it took 8hrs!! pretty awesome and im glad to see this log pay off!  :Smilie: 

i dont run IF though. more ADF (alternate day fasting) combined with cycling carbs and i only EVER eat carbs pre workout on training days and have a little carbs on fasting day but not much..

----------


## human project

> yeh its pretty cool to see it put like that. for me having lived thru the experience it was a growth process. it took me a year to get here. for u it took 8hrs!! pretty awesome and im glad to see this log pay off! 
> 
> i dont run IF though. more ADF (alternate day fasting) combined with cycling carbs and i only EVER eat carbs pre workout on training days and have a little carbs on fasting day but not much..


Can you break down this poetical a little more.. Here is my current carb split.. 1lb potatoes 1.5cups of rice.... Would I be able to spread this amount over just those periods??

----------


## --->>405<<---

whats ur workout sched look like? u cycling aas? cutting? cardio? stats?

----------


## human project

> whats ur workout sched look like? u cycling aas? cutting? cardio? stats?


After seeing your log I started one of my own... Check it out no ones really following it yet or giving any advise but the accountability aspect makes it amazing...

----------


## Back In Black

Happy New Year buddy.

How's the fat levels? Still loosing? Have you suffered from any lose skin with all the fat loss so far?

 :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Happy new year!! 

Bout to step up the diet in new phase. Will be posting. Prob 9.5% rite now.

No loose skin that ive noticed. Uve seen my pics. Will take a good on for avi if admin ever fixes them!

----------


## Back In Black

You do mean lose skin, not loose, right :Wink:

----------


## Soar

I love loose skin lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

> You do mean lose skin, not loose, right


Funny fellow!! LOL

----------


## --->>405<<---

Wow i just read ur other post and got it!! LMAO!! 

I was at work til 0230 so a lik slow today! LOL

----------


## --->>405<<---

Was wonderin why u askd me that! LOL

----------


## Tron3219

405, what's up bud! Have a good holiday season?

-TroN

----------


## --->>405<<---

i did tron! u?

congrats on turning red! (i dont think ive talked to u since then)  :Smilie:

----------


## Tron3219

> i did tron! u?
> 
> congrats on turning red! (i dont think ive talked to u since then)


I did! Had a whole 2 weeks off! It was AMAZING! Lol 

Ha I didn't even know I was red! Hahaha I have been out of the country and hasn't been on in a couple weeks. Thanks for bringing it to my attention haha

----------


## bikeral

405 my man. Still at it as usual. Hope you had a great holiday and new year.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 405 my man. Still at it as usual. Hope you had a great holiday and new year.


u know it al! likewise my man! hope u had a good one too bro!  :Smilie:  u gonna frequent a little more in the new year now that spring/summer is on the horizon??

----------


## gonejeepin

hey 405, its been a while, hows things? you cutting or bulking these days? looking good in the avi sir, hows that 405 bench goal coming along?

----------


## --->>405<<---

hey man doing good! cutting (of course  :Wink: )

405 bench will be awhile i suppose! of course it doesnt hurt to have a good goal even if its a long way away!  :Smilie:

----------


## human project

> hey man doing good! cutting (of course )
> 
> 405 bench will be awhile i suppose! of course it doesnt hurt to have a good goal even if its a long way away!


Yea btw where you at on your bench now? Did you loose any strength while dieting so hard??

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Yea btw where you at on your bench now? Did you loose any strength while dieting so hard??


still the same on bench pretty much. havent lost a lot of strength. im not done though. got a hard 4-6 weeks ahead of me probably starting a week from this monday. 

188lbs 9.5%bf benching 295 x 5 reps as of right now. havent tried a 1 rep max lately.. right now it stands at 345lbs

----------


## bikeral

> u know it al! likewise my man! hope u had a good one too bro!  u gonna frequent a little more in the new year now that spring/summer is on the horizon??


Yep I'll be around. Need to catch up on all my friends logs.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Yep I'll be around. Need to catch up on all my friends logs.


u got ur work cut out for u!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

im chasing u down Kel!  :Wink:

----------


## bigsiv

> im chasing u down Kel!


Vascular it's looks great 405 well done!

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx pal!  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

> im chasing u down Kel!


Loving it. Is the vascularity 24/7 or just when you've had a certainb food/supplement? Or just the day after your 3100 cals?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Loving it. Is the vascularity 24/7 or just when you've had a certainb food/supplement? Or just the day after your 3100 cals?


it seems to come and go. i dont pay a lot of attention. definitely when i introduce carbs into the diet after a low carb day! i cant wait to see what i look like when i get below 8%! 

i also have vascularity in thighs, and a little on my stomach.. im sure itll become more pronounced as time goes on. i am definitely happier leaner and not as big vs not as lean and bigger!  :Smilie:  i like lean man, lean!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

soooooooooo true!!!! u lookin good 405...considering this is just bro science! LOL! i lost alot of weight since hanging out in the nutritional section....seems alot of other have too come to think of it....hmmmmm...interesting.....  :Smilie: 




> it seems to come and go. i dont pay a lot of attention. definitely when i introduce carbs into the diet after a low carb day! i cant wait to see what i look like when i get below 8%! 
> 
> i also have vascularity in thighs, and a little on my stomach.. im sure itll become more pronounced as time goes on.* i am definitely happier leaner* and not as big vs not as lean and bigger!  i like lean man, lean!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> soooooooooo true!!!! u lookin good 405...*considering this is just bro science!* LOL! i lost alot of weight since hanging out in the nutritional section....seems alot of other have too come to think of it....hmmmmm...interesting.....


LMAO!! nail on the head girl!  :Smilie:

----------


## human project

> im chasing u down Kel!


Bro your lower the 9.5..... How you been getting tested?? Even the bod pod can be off several % with just a little air in your lungs....

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Bro your lower the 9.5..... How you been getting tested?? Even the bod pod can be off several % with just a little air in your lungs....


yeh BOD POD.. the thing that throws me off is my freaking abs suck! i need to work em more i suppose.

----------


## --->>405<<---

a fair amount of difference in 38 days.. from @12-13% to 9-10% from 195 (ish) to 188(ish)

thought this was interesting. i look thinner than i feel! the first pic was with a pump and obviously the other pic was not (taken this am)

----------


## RaginCajun

Def can notice a difference

Look way leaner in the second one

The tan makes you look a lot bigger also

Great work by the way!

----------


## RaginCajun

are you still having cream in your coffee in the AM?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> are you still having cream in your coffee in the AM?


LOL.. u pay pretty good attention and ur mind is a steel trap! LOL

on fasting days no i dont have creamer in my coffee as it has 10cals per serving and would break the fast! i think thats the worst part of fasting! i can deal with no food for 21-24 hrs but dont take away my french vanilla creamer dammit! LOL

----------


## RaginCajun

> LOL.. u pay pretty good attention and ur mind is a steel trap! LOL
> 
> on fasting days no i dont have creamer in my coffee as it has 10cals per serving and would break the fast! i think thats the worst part of fasting! i can deal with no food for 21-24 hrs but dont take away my french vanilla creamer dammit! LOL


that's what i thought!

def like a steel trap! when i use it!

can't wait to see how that cycle treats you!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> that's what i thought!
> 
> def like a steel trap! when i use it!
> 
> can't wait to see how that cycle treats you!


All the guys running cycle except for u?!???

----------


## RaginCajun

> All the guys running cycle except for u?!???


yes mam!

i need to get the BF a little lower and need to go get some bloodwork done to see where i stand

you don't miss much missy!

----------


## Bertuzzi

You're looking great in that avi 405... you've come a long way man, good for you. I'm excited to look half as good as you do right now!  :Smilie:

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> You're looking great in that avi 405... you've come a long way man, good for you. I'm excited to look half as good as you do right now!


That enuff now  :Wink: . 405 is gonna get a big head !!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> that's what i thought!
> 
> def like a steel trap! when i use it!
> 
> can't wait to see how that cycle treats you!


thx cajun me 2! i realize the approach some (or most) think is not enuff but hey the results will tell the tale.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> You're looking great in that avi 405... you've come a long way man, good for you. I'm excited to look half as good as you do right now!


thx bert! get it dun man!

----------


## bikeral

cycle? when do you start? what did you decide to run?

----------


## energizer bunny

new avi mate!........well done, looking great! very lean.....

----------


## --->>405<<---

> cycle? when do you start? what did you decide to run?


baby steps!  :Wink: 

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...g#.UO3jR2_edP8

----------


## --->>405<<---

> new avi mate!........well done, looking great! very lean.....


thx dude! h0pefully not as lean as ill look in about 2 months!

----------


## --->>405<<---

here u go dude..got tired of scrolling!  :Smilie:

----------


## Sfla80

> here u go dude..got tired of scrolling!


Lol thanks man

----------


## human project

> here u go dude..got tired of scrolling!


I've never seen a transformation like this before...... When you gonna start juicing so we can really see your potential.....? What all supplements/drugs have you used to get to where you are now??

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I've never seen a transformation like this before...... *When you gonna start juicing so we can really see your potential*.....? What all supplements/drugs have you used to get to where you are now??


LOL... thats funny HP, i appreciate it too man.. 

thus far ive done: TRT, injectable L-Carnitine, small amount of "Burn" (stim) for about 4weeks.. thats it.. 


heres what im doing starting monday. and yes i know, everyone thinks my primo dosage is too low.. im running it anyways.. im NOT trying to add any LBM at this point just maintain LBM and shooting for 6%. after this i intend to maintain that bf% (hopefully) for long enuff to establish myself there so itll be easier to get back and then i will probably run a lean bulk (blast) a little later down the road (thinking end of summer).. let me know what u think!

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...g#.UO_-w2_edP9

----------


## RaginCajun

405, how much would you contribute your TRT to your transformation?

i know you have worked your tail off both diet wise and gym wise, just wondering how much that helped change your body compostition

looking good man!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 405, how much would you contribute your TRT to your transformation?
> 
> i know you have worked your tail off both diet wise and gym wise, just wondering how much that helped change your body compostition
> 
> looking good man!


thx cajun.. TRT: 50% without a doubt! hard to get lean and make gains when ur natty free test is 7.3 (8.7-25.1) total test was 349 (348-1197)

assuming we all train and do cardio ill give 45% to diet and 5% to my workouts. basically my old original pic is what i looked like by lifting and doing some cardio with a not so good diet and horrible natty test..

----------


## RaginCajun

> thx cajun.. TRT: 50% without a doubt! hard to get lean and make gains when ur natty free test is 7.3 (8.7-25.1) total test was 349 (348-1197)
> 
> assuming we all train and do cardio ill give 45% to diet and 5% to my workouts. basically my old original pic is what i looked like by lifting and doing some cardio with a not so good diet and horrible natty test..


thanks for the info.

i need to go get tested. nothing is wrong with my libido or anything, just want/need to know where i stand. 

diet is def the biggest factor i agree!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> thanks for the info.
> 
> i need to go get tested. *nothing is wrong with my libido* or anything, just want/need to know where i stand. 
> 
> diet is def the biggest factor i agree!


nothing was wrong with mine either! my wife still thinks the docs are idiots (LOL) based on my sex drive.. 

my 2 biggest symptoms was: 
1. i was tired all the time even right when i woke up in the am.

2. couldnt lose fat or gain muscle..

----------


## RaginCajun

> nothing was wrong with mine either! my wife still thinks the docs are idiots (LOL) based on my sex drive.. 
> 
> my 2 biggest symptoms was: 
> 1. i was tired all the time even right when i woke up in the am.
> 
> 2. couldnt lose fat or gain muscle..


hmmmmmm.......

i was with a 37 year old for new years and she kept asking if i took something! hahahaha

i am never really tired all the time, but could always use some energy.

it is very hard for me to lose fat, i think my estro is high.

it does take me a while to heal though.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well just to be thorough i pinned my first pep shot tonite. did it right before cardio and only noticed slight nausea, got a hot flash, and then was fairly hungry. considering i was doing cardio (hot), and hadnt eaten all day the nausea and hunger + hot flash are all explainable. also quit dipping sunday..

needless to say its been a heck of a week already! also booked a 7-night cruise again! YAY!! eastern caribbean here we come! maybe this yr i can gain an even 20lbs!!

----------


## Brick

> well just to be thorough i pinned my first pep shot tonite. did it right before cardio and only noticed slight nausea, got a hot flash, and then was fairly hungry. considering i was doing cardio (hot), and hadnt eaten all day the nausea and hunger + hot flash are all explainable. also quit dipping sunday..
> 
> needless to say its been a heck of a week already! also booked a 7-night cruise again! YAY!! eastern caribbean here we come! maybe this yr i can gain an even 20lbs!!


Dipping as in chew?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Dipping as in chew?


thats correct sir.. funny when i quit smoking cigarettes i started dipping to help me quit and ended up getting addicted to the dip.. its been 3 years and long enuff!

----------


## cue_artist

405 can u jump into the PWO meal thread and give us your thoughts ? I would like to know what you think of the topic ... thanks

----------


## RaginCajun

just wanted to let you know that you have me hooked on diet mountain dew!!!!!!!!

i normally would never have a soft drink unless it was diet and mixed with liquor

i had two today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! they are like crack!

----------


## Zodiac82

> LOL... thats funny HP, i appreciate it too man..
> 
> thus far ive done: TRT, injectable L-Carnitine, ]


outa curiosity 405 how much l-carnitine were u injecting and how long did u do it for

----------


## --->>405<<---

> outa curiosity 405 how much l-carnitine were u injecting and how long did u do it for


6000mg (12mL) week 1 to achieve full saturation

3000mg (6mL) per week maintaining saturation..

im still using it BTW

----------


## mockery

i always imagine men who chew are big and very hairy., yet here u are hairless like a young mexican pool boy

----------


## --->>405<<---

> i always imagine men who chew are big and very hairy., yet here u are hairless like a young mexican pool boy


lol.. not naturally!

----------


## Bodacious

Hey 405 just booked a cruise my self 7 night. What line ate you going on?

----------


## --->>405<<---

royal caribbean allure of the seas  :Smilie:

----------


## Zodiac82

> 6000mg (12mL) week 1 to achieve full saturation
> 
> 3000mg (6mL) per week maintaining saturation..
> 
> im still using it BTW


ok is that IM or sub....u can get that from arr right...
oh yeh by the way great transformation man....kudos

----------


## --->>405<<---

> ok is that IM or sub....u can get that from arr right...
> oh yeh by the way great transformation man....kudos


IM and from my experience its a bitch of an inject! hurts every time and have PIP every time. the first time i injected my glute i could hardly sleep! they say u can do sub q i havent tried it primarily due to the fact that it also has to be taken with carbs (unless ur injecting slin) to shuttle the carnitine into whatever brain barrier thing it has to go thru and i dont have room in my diet for 75g carbs 6 days per week which is how itd have to be done to maintain a 6mL saturation dose done sub q..

the best place ive found is the delts.. they still hurt.. the pip has decreased about 50% or so over the 8-9 weeks ive been on this stuff..

----------


## Zodiac82

> IM and from my experience its a bitch of an inject! hurts every time and have PIP every time. the first time i injected my glute i could hardly sleep! they say u can do sub q i havent tried it primarily due to the fact that it also has to be taken with carbs (unless ur injecting slin) to shuttle the carnitine into whatever brain barrier thing it has to go thru and i dont have room in my diet for 75g carbs 6 days per week which is how itd have to be done to maintain a 6mL saturation dose done sub q..
> 
> the best place ive found is the delts.. they still hurt.. the pip has decreased about 50% or so over the 8-9 weeks ive been on this stuff..


lol ur making me have second thoughts....I thinking im gonna give it a shot though

----------


## --->>405<<---

why cuz it hurts? dont be such a pu55y!! its not that bad! u just gotta be tuff!  :Wink:  its best to run it concurrently with mod grf and ghrp2 (or the like) to really see good fat loss benefit..

----------


## human project

> why cuz it hurts? dont be such a pu55y!! its not that bad! u just gotta be tuff!  its best to run it concurrently with mod grf and ghrp2 (or the like) to really see good fat loss benefit..


Your making me want to give it a try now.... Man I swear every week I find a new compound I just have to get lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Your making me want to give it a try now.... Man I swear every week I find a new compound I just have to get lol


LOL.. yeh once my primo gets here ill be injecting 6 things into my body weekly! of course 2 of em r TRT but still...

----------


## -KJ-

Hey 405 long time since I've been on... 

Good to see your going strong

----------


## human project

> LOL.. yeh once my primo gets here ill be injecting 6 things into my body weekly! of course 2 of em r TRT but still...


You know I was really contemplating primo instead of test but I figured ill wait bc I've used test a million times; so ill stick with it for this show. I'm starting not like test as much as I use to. I'm starting to think its the main cause of my sides. Is that why you choose primo?

----------


## --->>405<<---

just to be thorough for this thread today i measured my waist and it is at its smallest that it has ever been! 31.75" (YES!!!)

i expect it can still get a little smaller but im thinking im getting down to where it cant drop too much more.

----------


## energizer bunny

> just to be thorough for this thread today i measured my waist and it is at its smallest that it has ever been! 31.75" (YES!!!)
> 
> i expect it can still get a little smaller but im thinking im getting down to where it cant drop too much more.


well done mate!!........after all this time you are still progressing! excellent attitude and determination, props for 405..

----------


## Brick

> just to be thorough for this thread today i measured my waist and it is at its smallest that it has ever been! 31.75" (YES!!!)
> 
> i expect it can still get a little smaller but im thinking im getting down to where it cant drop too much more.


At what point do you measure your waist?

Also can you post me a sample diet of the 3000 day vs 600 day?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> At what point do you measure your waist?
> 
> Also can you post me a sample diet of the 3000 day vs 600 day?


right at belly button..

*3000cals (3100-3500 depending i am not too anal about this):*

1. oatmeal blueberry pancakes

2. 1 egg, cup egg whites, 8oz 96% ff ground beef (omelette) , cup oats

3. 2 ham sandwiches (1 servging light mayo)

4. 1/2 cup brn rice, 8oz 96% ff ground beef

5. 1 whole egg, cup egg whites, 8oz beef (omelette), cup oats

6. pound either beef or chikn breast + big spinach salad


*600 cal day:*

12oz 96%ff ground beef
pound baby spinach
1tbsp EVOO

----------


## Brick

> right at belly button..
> 
> 3000cals (3100-3500 depending i am not too anal about this):
> 
> 1. oatmeal blueberry pancakes
> 
> 2. 1 egg, cup egg whites, 8oz 96% ff ground beef (omelette) , cup oats
> 
> 3. 2 ham sandwiches (1 servging light mayo)
> ...


Ah so your 600 day involves an 18isj hour fast?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Ah so your 600 day involves an 18isj hour fast?


21-24hrs usually.. and my 600cal day is 2 days consecutively..  :Smilie:

----------


## Brick

> 21-24hrs usually.. and my 600cal day is 2 days consecutively..


Hmm. Will comment more in class later tonight.

----------


## Brick

So that would be. Wake up. Don't eat. Sleep. Eat in morning. Don't eat. Sleep?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> So that would be. Wake up. Don't eat. Sleep. Eat in morning. Don't eat. Sleep?


NO..

monday:
eat all day (3000cals) have last meal around 2000 (which is when my "fast" starts)

tuesday:
wake 0500, fast all day long, do 60min cardio (moderate) and then 30min HIIT in the PM, eat 600cals @1900-2000 (23-24hrs fasted)

wednesday:
wake 0500, fast all day long, do 60min cardio (moderate) and then 30min HIIT in the PM, eat 600cals @1900-2000 (23-24hrs fasted)

repeat cycle..

----------


## Zodiac82

> NO..
> 
> monday:
> eat all day (3000cals) have last meal around 2000 (which is when my "fast" starts)
> 
> tuesday:
> wake 0500, fast all day long, do 60min cardio (moderate) and then 30min HIIT in the PM, eat 600cals @1900-2000 (23-24hrs fasted)
> 
> wednesday:
> ...


405 is there a particular reason u dont do HIIT in the am vs pm....is it more of not be "motivated" to do somethin that extreme knowin ur gonna be fasted for a while....or maybe lack of nutrients or fuel to do it.

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^just works best with my schedule.. sometimes i actually do HIIT in the am actually.. of course i am fasted for both cardio sessions so IMO it doesnt matter. the HIIT in the PM seems itd be good for EPOC while sleeping..

----------


## RaginCajun

> NO..
> 
> monday:
> eat all day (3000cals) have last meal around 2000 (which is when my "fast" starts)
> 
> tuesday:
> wake 0500, fast all day long, do 60min cardio (moderate) and then 30min HIIT in the PM, eat 600cals @1900-2000 (23-24hrs fasted)
> 
> wednesday:
> ...


damn, only 1200 cals in two days!

your stomach has to be going nutz!

so if you avg out your cals per day, your only looking at 1400 per day. i understand it doesn't work like that but just was doing some number crunching and say that

----------


## -KJ-

> NO..
> 
> monday:
> eat all day (3000cals) have last meal around 2000 (which is when my "fast" starts)
> 
> tuesday:
> wake 0500, fast all day long, do 60min cardio (moderate) and then 30min HIIT in the PM, eat 600cals @1900-2000 (23-24hrs fasted)
> 
> wednesday:
> ...


How are your energy levels? How is your recovery? how is the hunger.. this is interesting

----------


## Zodiac82

> ^^just works best with my schedule.. sometimes i actually do HIIT in the am actually.. of course i am fasted for both cardio sessions so IMO it doesnt matter. the HIIT in the PM seems itd be good for EPOC while sleeping..


oh ok gotcha

----------


## -KJ-

hey 405.. currently working out a diet here and wanna keep carbs to 80-100 or less for my cut...

do i count the carbs that come from greens in here? I understand that they must be taken into account for calories..?
Cheers Pal

----------


## --->>405<<---

> How are your energy levels? How is your recovery? how is the hunger.. this is interesting


enegy is ok on the first day but is a lot lower by the second.

recovery is ok but im only lifting every 3 days and running peptides.

hunger comes and goes. it can be a real bitch and is appearing to have somewhat of a cumulative effect.. sometimes it seems even when i eat and am full im still hungry (if that makes sense)..

----------


## --->>405<<---

> hey 405.. currently working out a diet here and wanna keep carbs to 80-100 or less for my cut...
> 
> *do i count the carbs that come from greens* in here? I understand that they must be taken into account for calories..?
> Cheers Pal


i wouldnt count them.. u planning to refeed? if so how often and with how many carbs?

----------


## -KJ-

> i wouldnt count them.. u planning to refeed? if so how often and with how many carbs?


So I can take in 80-100g Carbs from complex sources (Mainly oats/Sweet Potatoes and rarely Basmati Rice).

Em considering I carry a good bit of fat.. dont plan on refeeds until after day 14-21 and then every 14 days. Im not too sure. Maybe increase carbs by an extra 125g (600cals) maybe too much.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> So I can take in 80-100g Carbs from complex sources (Mainly oats/Sweet Potatoes and rarely Basmati Rice).
> 
> Em considering I carry a good bit of fat.. dont plan on refeeds until after day 14-21 and then every 14 days. Im not too sure. Maybe increase carbs by an extra 125g (600cals) maybe too much.


if ur running 100g carbs per day id refeed evry 14th day with 250-300g carbs total that day..

----------


## -KJ-

> if ur running 100g carbs per day id refeed evry 14th day with 250-300g carbs total that day..


yeah well im almost finished number crunching and will have a full plan posted up and ready to run with by monday for all you to look at. May turn it to a log  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> yeah well im almost finished number crunching and will have a full plan posted up and ready to run with by monday for all you to look at. *May turn it to a log*


good idea!

----------


## bikeral

> enegy is ok on the first day but is a lot lower by the second.
> 
> recovery is ok but im only lifting every 3 days and running peptides.
> 
> hunger comes and goes. it can be a real bitch and is appearing to have somewhat of a cumulative effect.. sometimes it seems *even when i eat and am full im still hungry (if that makes sense)*..


Makes sense to me. Happens every day post workout.

----------


## Brick

carb cycling questions


With the way my schedule is, work school life, I think this will work best for me. How do you feel about it?
As of today I was 203 and I am going to use 15% bf, better to shoot high than low.

 RECALCULATION OF CALORIES
*LBM*:203x0.85=172.55 
*MAINTENCE CALORIES:* 172.55x15=2588.25
*CALORIE DEFICIENT :* 2088, 2100 for simplicity 

*LOW DAY:* 2100 
*P:* 270g
*C:* 50g 
*F:* 47g


*LOW DAY:* 2100 
*P:* 270g
*C:* 150g 
*F:* 47g

*HIGH DAY:* 2700 
*P:* 270g
*C:* 250g
*F:* 47g

My low day is actually a no day all carbs come from green leafy vegetables 
My high day is me indulging a bit. I love sushi but I am going to either drink a ton of water before I go or eat a meal. This way I will not be able to eat to much and it helps my mental side with the cravings. 

With my schedule I work like to try the following:

*MON:* LOW
*TUE:* LOW
*WED:* HIGH
*THU:* LOW
*FRI:* MOD
*SAT:* MOD
*SUN:* LOW

WORKOUTS/DAILY PLANS
MONDAY
Depletion workout

TUESDAY
7:00am wake
10:10am fasted cardio (45min LISS)
10:55am break fast (2scoops isowhey, 1 cup black coffee)
Continue low day as normal
Workout in late afternoon depletion 

WEDNESDAY
High day as well as heavy workout: deadlifts or squats

THURSDAY
7:00am wake
10:10am fasted cardio (45min LISS)
10:55am break fast (2scoops isowhey, 1 cup black coffee)
Continue low day as normal 
Workout in late afternoon (normal workout)

FRIDAY
Mod Day 
Leg or Back day (depending on what workout was on Wed)

SATURDAY
Mod Day
Day off from gym (work till 4am Saturday, start next shift 16 hours later at 6pm Saturday)

SUNDAY
Low Day
If I have time I will either do another workout and/or some sort of cardio. School/family usually falls into this time though

Note: I wont eat sushi every high day. Just that's where it would fall when I do

Do you think those are reasonable numbers?

If so, for future reference as we were previously on the topic, if I were to conduct the exact same diet but was on test how would you change the macros?
Would it be as simple as lowering the carbs or total caloric intake? We touched on this in the other thread but I was not completely certain on it. I do plan to cut cycle come Sept (end of Oct Mexico trip), so any advice now on the matter would help for that.

As always, thank you very much for your insights.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> carb cycling questions
> 
> 
> With the way my schedule is, work school life, I think this will work best for me. How do you feel about it?
> As of today I was 203 and I am going to use 15% bf, better to shoot high than low.
> 
>  RECALCULATION OF CALORIES
> *LBM*:203x0.85=172.55 
> *MAINTENCE CALORIES:* 172.55x15=2588.25
> ...


i dont like ur schedule. the purpose of running 3 days no/low carbs is to deplete muscle glycogen which will cause the body to use body fat for fuel. if u start depletion diet sunday u need to do depletion workout sunday. right now sunday is a wasted day IMO. this is what id do (and u make the days fit according to ur schedule).

day1: low/depletion/cardio (am fasted)
day2: low/depletion/cardio (am fasted)
day3: low/cardio only
day4: am cardio (fasted)/high/pm workout (arms/shoulders) 
day5: moderate (legs)
day6: moderate (chest/back)
day7: moderate/pm cardio 

i corrected ur total cals above but i would not be concerned with them (cals), the macros look good and ur moderate day deficit is where it should be so id roll with the macros as u have them. (u could increase carbs on high day to 300g) 

if sushi is ur cheat and its only fish and rice and not fried (high in fat) id fit it into ur high day macros (day 4). if it contains a lot of fat id have it in the pm of day 3. 

based on ur sunday activities (family etc..) it looks like sunday should be a day off. taking that into consideration personally id try to run the schedule like i have set as monday being day 1 and sunday being day 7. try to fit in pm cardio on sunday to begin depletion. 

what does ur depletion workout look like?

----------


## Brick

day1: low/depletion/cardio (am fasted)
day2: low/depletion/cardio (am fasted)
day3: low/cardio only
day4: am cardio (fasted)/high/pm workout (arms/shoulders) 
day5: moderate (legs)
day6: moderate (chest/back)
day7: moderate/pm cardio 

RECALCULATION OF CALORIES
LBM:203x0.85=172.55
MAINTENCE CALORIES: 172.55x15=2588.25
CALORIE DEFICIENT : 2088, 2100 for simplicity

LOW DAY: 1703 
P: 270g
C: 50g
F: 47g


MOD DAY: 2100 
P: 270g
C: 150g
F: 47g

HIGH DAY: 2503
P: 270g
C: 250g
F: 47g

DEPLETION WORKOUTS: Need Help Here
_"To do a depletion workout, you want to adopt a circuit-style training protocol. Basically, you will be moving from one exercise to the next with little or no rest in between. You are also going to aim to perform 15-20 reps per set, so take note that the weight you are lifting should be on the lighter side_."

Squat 205x15-20
Deadlift 245x15-20
Incline Bench 135x15-20
Cable Curls ?x15-20
Cable Pressdowns ?x15-20

for variance Front squat, sumo dead and another form of pressing movement can be swapped out?
Complete that 4-5 times, no rest between sets. 3-4 min rest between rounds?

Changes in red

thanks again for your help. I am going to switch it up and do Monday Day one (how you layed it out) as it actually works better with my schedule

----------


## --->>405<<---

u need 10-12 sets per body part (5-6sets for minor body parts) to fully deplete muscle glycogen. i spread mine over 2 days and recommend u do the same. heres a good sample:

*flat bench (incline)
rows (lat pull)
curls
tri press*


*shoulder flyes (shoulder press)
leg press
leg curl
calves*

i grouped them together in giant sets. its important also to have weight set properly. typically 60% of ur 1 rep max is close and adjust as u have to. 

45-60secs per set (time under tension) with a slow negative.. its freaking brutal as heck and u will feel like quitting, puking, dizzy, nausea, dying, having heart attack! if u dont feel this way halfway thru ur not doing enuff weight and ur probably going to fast.. 

the alternatives were in parenthesis. its not too important exercise selection as it is weight and time under tension and total sets.. usually id do 3 giant sets of the first group, then do 3 giant sets of the second group, take a short break (5-10mins) then repeat except do 2-3 giant sets of each and call it a day. (u will be more than ready to). do the same thing again the next day..

----------


## Brick

> u need 10-12 sets per body part (5-6sets for minor body parts) to fully deplete muscle glycogen. i spread mine over 2 days and recommend u do the same. heres a good sample:
> 
> flat bench (incline)
> rows (lat pull)
> curls
> tri press
> 
> shoulder flyes (shoulder press)
> leg press
> ...


I see the advantage using leg press over squat and machines over free weight for ease and simplicity for the sets. 

When you do your sets are your last few reps hurting (as in to failure) or are you still able to squeeze out a few on first set. Less on 2nd. Failurish on 3rd?

----------


## --->>405<<---

yeh fatigue sets in but u dont want to be at failure, u just want to struggle to get the last few reps in on sets 2 and 3.. itll take a little while. give urself 2 weeks (4 depletion days) and u should have it pretty well figured out.

----------


## Brick

> yeh fatigue sets in but u dont want to be at failure, u just want to struggle to get the last few reps in on sets 2 and 3.. itll take a little while. give urself 2 weeks (4 depletion days) and u should have it pretty well figured out.


Bingo. Can't wait!

----------


## Brick

Slick new avi!

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx man  :Smilie:

----------


## energizer bunny

> Slick new avi!


yep...looking very lean man.....great work mate.

----------


## --->>405<<---

i suppose i should note this weekend marks halfway thru this hard cutting phase (3weeks) and i am very happy with the results so far!. i may end up going longer i dont know because the steroids i planned on doing have not worked out like i originally planned. 

right now the only things im on are test cyp at 200mg per week and peptides (mod grf, ghrp-2) and naturally the L carnitine.. but not on the primo and waiting for anavar which i think is what im gonna run. will prob consider going 4 weeks once it gets here.. 

lesson learned: next time i plan on doing anything involving steroids i will wait to have the steroids present and in my possession before i implement whatever i plan to do!  :Smilie:

----------


## Brick

You're only planning to run var for 4 weeks?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> You're only planning to run var for 4 weeks?


at this point yes.. i am in the testing it out phase. eventually i may run a test cycle at 500-600mg per week at which time i may look into running var then at the conclusion. it being an oral and the first time ive done anything other than test im not gonna go big or long. i am lean enuff to where i should be able to see what it can do... we'll see. i havent made any final decisions yet. i still gotta get the damn stuff!  :Wink:

----------


## Brick

> at this point yes.. i am in the testing it out phase. eventually i may run a test cycle at 500-600mg per week at which time i may look into running var then at the conclusion. it being an oral and the first time ive done anything other than test im not gonna go big or long. i am lean enuff to where i should be able to see what it can do... we'll see. i havent made any final decisions yet. i still gotta get the damn stuff!


At your level of fitness I agree with your logic

----------


## SlimmerMe

WOWSA 405! You look........wonderful..........just absolutely wonderful......

----------


## Bodacious

Hey 405 so while ur cutting you are also taking test ??? I have thought about just picking some test up at like complete nutrition a bottle I know its nothing like the test you have. But you have to run and AI and also a PCT with that don't you. Don't know enough about it to do that. Just thought taking test you can with stand a lot more protien? Which would contradict losing weight. 

Last year I got down to 200 I am now around 210 wanna get down to around 197-200...before may cruise time..lol... But I am also 6'5 so that's pretty lean for me. Thanks for all the help

----------


## --->>405<<---

> WOWSA 405! You look........wonderful..........just absolutely wonderful......



thx slim!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

BOD POD today.. who woulda thought id be pissed with this! LOL..

theres no way in 2 months of cutting ive only lost 0.6%bf esp by how difft and more lean i feel..  :Hmmmm:

----------


## Brick

> BOD POD today.. who woulda thought id be pissed with this! LOL..
> 
> theres no way in 2 months of cutting ive only lost 0.6%bf esp by how difft and more lean i feel..


Maybe you put on a bit of muscle and lost some water weight but fat stayed around the same on your body?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Maybe you put on a bit of muscle and lost some water weight but fat stayed around the same on your body?


Doubt it. Have u read what my diet looks like?? Plus i can tell where im losing fat. Love handles are totally gone..

----------


## RaginCajun

do think you could have lost both due to fasting?

you def look leaner than ever

maybe it is time to switch it up again

----------


## Back In Black

Now then 405, this is where you need to stop getting hung up on numbers. You are clearly leaner than last time and, as your bf gets lower and Lowe that 0.6% difference is much more obvious. Plus, there always needs to be an allowance that the bodpods doesn't give an exact reading.

----------


## Brick

> Doubt it. Have u read what my diet looks like?? Plus i can tell where im losing fat. Love handles are totally gone..


http://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/vi...20bod%20pod%22

University study on bop pod vs DXA. 

States a standard deviation of 2.4. And results off by as much as 3.6% and since it is a precise calculation I would use a level of significance of 0.025

Not knowing the rest of your information or having a large sample size we can't know exact but we can come to a few early conclusions with this early data. 

Scenario:

1) your last bod pod (hence known as BP) underestimated/spot on/over your BF and the new one either: over estimated, spot on, under estimated. 
Since we know from your comments that you are leaner and that bodyfat has gone done (visual evidence) we can move along to two positive conclusions

A) your first test was over by the upper range of 3.6% and due to you obvious change in body fat your second test was off by less margin and closer to your 'true' bf

B) the opposite. Your first BP test was bang on and your second was at the upper range of 3.6% range

Without more data we can't conclude exactly what happened but only have educated guesses. It must also be noted that your last BP measurement was 2 months ago. We cannot say that our test parameters were the same in each test. While you and the administers can attempt on each end to control your various parameters it will not always be the same. What I mean by this is, for your parameters, you wear the same clothing each time, test taken at around the same time of day and week (low carb vs high carb day) and for the administers it is a little trickier. The BP uses precise measurements, what is it say at either test the calibrations were off. You can't control if the maintenance guy sets it off by .01 and then it snow balls.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Doubt it. Have u read what my diet looks like?? Plus i can tell where im losing fat. Love handles are totally gone..


Well there is an OP who thinks u r closer to 18%. Lol.

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ thx pal.. Similar logic to wat i had. Had forgotten about smaller drops being more significant looking though.. Good call  :Smilie: 

9.3% is pretty dang good but i want more!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Excellent post brick! Thx for putting so much effort in trying to make me "feel better"!! It worked  :Smilie:  LOL

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Well there is an OP who thinks u r closer to 18%. Lol.


LOL u mean my number one fan Dan the abdominal man!!?

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> LOL u mean my number one fan Dan the abdominal man!!?


Yea the one in the lounge making friends and influencing ppl. His AB workout is looking phenomenal on you! Don't mind the bod pod. Just think about when you started this journey!!!

----------


## Brick

> Excellent post brick! Thx for putting so much effort in trying to make me "feel better"!! It worked  LOL


The thanks should be going the other way! I am at where I am (and where I will be) partly because of your help on diet and exercise! I just put in the movements and effort!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> The thanks should be going the other way! I am at where I am (and where I will be) partly because of your help on diet and exercise! I just put in the movements and effort!


well thats how it should be brick we help each other! regardless of where we're at, we can all offer something to each other!  :Smilie:

----------


## Zodiac82

viscious quads 405....now I see what Cape was talkin about

----------


## canesfan804

Nice wheels 405! Hope to get mine like that this summer.

----------


## Brick

> well thats how it should be brick we help each other! regardless of where we're at, we can all offer something to each other!


100% correct buddy. I'm just glad I could pay a bit back!

----------


## twitz

You look fantastic 405  :Smilie:

----------


## kitstreasure

405, I started reading your log from the beginning, and man have you made an AMAZING transformation. That's the sum of a lot of hard work, when you look in the mirror.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Nice wheels 405! Hope to get mine like that this summer.


405 is lookin good. No doubt an inspiration to many.

----------


## bikeral

Dude wheels look good. If you don't mind can you post a typical quad/ham workout?

Thanks pal.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Dude wheels look good. If you don't mind can you post a typical quad/ham workout?
> 
> Thanks pal.


Well if he is taking requests......I'll have side shot with chest arms and alittle bit of abs on the side. Lol

----------


## Back In Black

> Well if he is taking requests......I'll have side shot with chest arms and alittle bit of abs on the side. Lol


You and your man porn. Come on 405, oblige the lady.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> viscious quads 405....now I see what Cape was talkin about


thx man!  :Smilie: 




> Nice wheels 405! Hope to get mine like that this summer.


appreciate it canes.. u can do it dude! diet is the key!




> 100% correct buddy. I'm just glad I could pay a bit back!


me 2 brick ..




> You look fantastic 405


thx twitz  :Smilie: 




> 405, I started reading your log from the beginning, and man have you made an AMAZING transformation. That's the sum of a lot of hard work, when you look in the mirror.


u are correct kits! and im still working! glad to see u are too! 




> 405 is lookin good. No doubt an inspiration to many.


thx ggr.. 



> Dude wheels look good. If you don't mind can you post a typical quad/ham workout?
> 
> Thanks pal.


nothing special realy al just very straightforward:
squat super set with leg extension
leg curls
standing calf raises

i really giant set all 4 and pretty much just do these.. lately i have been going heavy at 5 reps and 3 work sets.. i usually do 3 warm up sets to get to my work set weight.. so a total of 6 sets.. 




> Well if he is taking requests......I'll have side shot with chest arms and alittle bit of abs on the side. Lol


LOL.. nice avi BTW  :Wink: 




> You and your man porn. Come on 405, oblige the lady.


i posted one a few days ago and GGRsaid i was scaring newbs away!  :Smilie:

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> thx man! 
> 
> appreciate it canes.. u can do it dude! diet is the key!
> 
> me 2 brick ..
> 
> thx twitz 
> 
> u are correct kits! and im still working! glad to see u are too!
> ...


Well that one was kinda creepy. Lol.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Well that one was kinda creepy. Lol.


funny ive never thought of myself as "creepy" nor do i think ive ever been referred to as "creepy" of course i suppose no actual creepy people probably ever did either! i do think i would know if i qualified though!  :Wink:

----------


## largerthannormal

Nice new avy 405! cant wait till i get my veins to pop in my legs like that!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Nice new avy 405! cant wait till i get my veins to pop in my legs like that!!


thx dude! 'tis a good feeling!

----------


## --->>405<<---

for comparison people the first pic is me BEFORE carbless post workout/fasting EOD cutting protocol, the second pic is AFTER. notice the dates in the bottom right corner of the pics are correct for when the pics were taken! duration: 3 months.. approx 12 weeks.

keep in mind one of the big ideas behind carbless PWO is the introduction of carbs post workout actually decreases protein synthesis. 

first pic: approx 198lbs 13.1%bf

second pic: approx 190lbs 9.3%bf

this is basically the culmination of the past 3 months for me..  :Smilie:  next step will probably include AAS

----------


## Brick

> for comparison people the first pic is me BEFORE carbless post workout/fasting EOD cutting protocol, the second pic is AFTER. notice the dates in the bottom right corner of the pics are correct for when the pics were taken! duration: 3 months.. approx 12 weeks.
> 
> keep in mind one of the big ideas behind carbless PWO is the introduction of carbs post workout actually decreases protein synthesis.
> 
> first pic: approx 198lbs 13.1%bf
> 
> second pic: approx 190lbs 9.3%bf
> 
> this is basically the culmination of the past 3 months for me..  next step will probably include AAS


Nicely done big guy. That's some hard work

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Nicely done big guy. That's some hard work


thx man  :Smilie:  

now i can be done thinking about it and on to the next thing. i hope my results from steroid cycle will be as drastic. imagine what that would have me looking like if they were! LOL..

----------


## < <Samson> >

Looking good for sure man. 

Such a huge difference between 13%+ to 9%+

----------


## Bodacious

So the first pic is when u started fasting and the second is the results???

----------


## ppwc1985

It looks like you added a good amount of lbm too, which I for one think is very possible when cutting. If done properly you can turn some bf into lbm. Good job 405, were you on restricted calories or just cutting out some carbs?

----------


## 951thompson

Nice job 405, that's inspirational!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Looking good for sure man. 
> 
> Such a huge difference between 13%+ to 9%+


thx dude.. and u are correct! big diff tween 13 and 9  :Smilie: 




> So the first pic is when u started fasting and the second is the results???


that is correct, the first pic i had done NO fasting at that point, only standard carb cycling. pic 2 is after 3 months of EOD fasting plus carbless post workout. the last 4 weeks i fasted 2days out of every 3 like this: fast, fast, no fast, repeat.. in all fairness the last 4 weeks when i increased my fasting frequency i did bring back PWO carbs.. 




> It looks like you added a good amount of lbm too, which I for one think is very possible when cutting. If done properly you can turn some bf into lbm. Good job 405, were you on restricted calories or just cutting out some carbs?


yeh it sure looks like it! (added LBM ) according to stats my LBM went up 0.27lbs, of course this is assuming the BOD POD is 100% accurate  :Smilie: 

the difference in bf% between the 2 pics is 3.8% amazing how much diff that can make huH!  :Smilie: 





> Nice job 405, that's inspirational!


thx 951thompson.. BTW i did eat 4 pieces of bread every day i trained  :Wink:

----------


## likelifting

> for comparison people the first pic is me BEFORE carbless post workout/fasting EOD cutting protocol, the second pic is AFTER. notice the dates in the bottom right corner of the pics are correct for when the pics were taken! duration: 3 months.. approx 12 weeks.
> 
> keep in mind one of the big ideas behind carbless PWO is the introduction of carbs post workout actually decreases protein synthesis. 
> 
> first pic: approx 198lbs 13.1%bf
> 
> second pic: approx 190lbs 9.3%bf
> 
> this is basically the culmination of the past 3 months for me..  next step will probably include AAS


Excellent job! Impressive.

Did you do a lot more trap work in that 3 months? Cuz they show a lot more. Or is that just from dropping bf? 

Also, do you have any helpful suggestions for fasting for an entire day? I did it for the first time Sunday. But I couldn't get to sleep. But fasting for dropping bf is amazing to me. And I'm just IFing. 

Before you answer the 2nd question, I should go back through and reread your entire thread. 

Again, great job!

----------


## --->>405<<---

*maintenance diet: (training days as of now)*

3 servings capn crunch peanut butter
milk
entire recipe blueberry oat pancakes
1 cup eggwhites, 1 whole egg 
8oz beef
big bag beef jerky (sweet and hot)
2 ham sandwiches (arnold health nut bread - the best )
8oz beef
1/2 cup brn rice (dry)
1 whole egg, cup egg whites
8oz beef
big ass spinach salad tomato, onion, cucumber, turkey pepp, balsamic

(debating 250g blueberries + 250g cottage cheese)

3892cals
386g pro
415g carbs
77g fat

(if i eat the cottage cheese and blueberries)

the funny thing is i pre-calculated all this in my head and it comes out to:

39.6% pro
42.6% carb
17.5% fat

pretty dang close to 40/40/20 

without the cottage cheese:
3586cals
364g pro
373g carbs
71g fat

40.6% pro
41.6% carbs
17.8% fat

what can i say i obsess with my food numbers. 

my non training day macros as of right now:
1568cals
189g pro
55g carbs
62g fat

whats funny is if u multiply both these days out at half a week since i run EOD then:

1568 x 3.5 = 5488

3586 x 3.5 = 12551

12551 + 5488 = 18039

18039/7 = *2577*

my rough maintenance:
190lbs 9.3%bf

190 x .907 = 172.33(lbs LBM)

172.33 x 15 = *2585cals*

2585 - 2577 = 8 cals difference (damn that boy's instincts are good!!! )  :0jackson:  :0jackson:  :0jackson:  :0jackson:  :0jackson: 

and im not obsessive nor am i anal! id also like to note the sugary cereal is intentional as i am utilizing injectable L-Carnitine and it requires a substantial presence of insulin to shuttle it thru the blood brain barrier.. oh well whats a guy gonna do that wont inject insulin? spike his blood sugar with cereal!!!!

----------


## < <Samson> >

I really wanna see if you just blow up when you start juicing(LBM no fattness).

But, yeah - People think they are sitting close or under 10%Bf all day long and they are not even close. 

13% is good, but under 10% really makes a huge difference. You see veins where you don't even think you have any. 


After watching you drop some Bf, kind of makes me want to pull my weight down lower. I was always happy being 13% and under. But, under 10% sure looks cool to me. . lol

----------


## Tx89

Fantastic bro, fantastic. Outstanding progress  :Smilie: 
I actually reread your entire thread 2-3 weeks ago to find my motivation again and get back at it!

----------


## --->>405<<---

staggering my cals back up finally! i really dont have the patience for this and wou prefer to jump strait into maintenance cals and frequency but i know i need to taper up.. ugh.. just finished fast day 2 in a row (24hrs since any food).. seemed like a lot longer! didnt think id ever get to eat!

----------


## likelifting

^ Black coffee? Anything besides water?

----------


## --->>405<<---

coffee and water and diet soda..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well today is my daughters bday (15) so i get carabbas 2nite! YAY! pizza!! mmmmmmmmmmm

this is a great example of the freedom afforded with fasting. today was supposed to be a training day which i eat 3500cals 400g carbs but since i know ill be eating a 2000+ cal meal this evening instead i am fasting all day (this makes 3 in a row now) and ill be doing some cardio at lunch (45-60mins) to compensate.. to further compensate if i felt so inclined i could also fast again tomorrow. i doubt i will though. i seem to be maintaining my bf% well and actually looked a little better this am in the mirror than i usually do. waist holding at 31.75".. weight 190lbs..

----------


## Back In Black

Bloody hell mate, just eat!!!!!!!!!!

Why do you feel the need to taper up to maintenance? Maintenance is maintenance is it not?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Bloody hell mate, just eat!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Why do you feel the need to taper up to maintenance? Maintenance is maintenance is it not?


 maintenance is maintenance yes  :Smilie: 

as u know when cutting the body undergoes hormonal changes and makes adjustments. i am just trying to be sure not to gain any fat back and it is working thus far! only a couple weeks and i get to eat more anyways. i want to establish this bf% and be sure to NOT gain any fat! 

what can i say im anal!

----------


## Back In Black

Anal yes. Most definitely. Some may call it over thinking or over complicating. We hen I jumped into maintenance last year I lost weight. It doesn't always work the way you read or the way you think.

Besides, what is the greatest natural thermogenic? You've already gained muscle and lost fat for an extended period of time on your cut, it should be that you can continue that running maintenance. With the correct macro split, of course.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Anal yes. Most definitely. *1. Some may call it over thinking or over complicating*. We hen I jumped into maintenance last year I lost weight. It doesn't always work the way you read or the way you think.
> 
> Besides, what is the greatest natural thermogenic? You've already gained muscle and lost fat for an extended period of time on your cut, *2. it should be that you can continue that running maintenance. With the correct macro split, of course.*


1. "some"are entitled to their opinions!  :Wink: 

2. i actually looked better this am in the mirror than i have yet!

----------


## Back In Black

I just think you'd be surprised at how well maintenance would suit:-

1.your physique

2. Your mood 

3. Your wife ( who must have the patience if a Saint?)

I know you don't like 'normal' diets. I know you are a little (or a lot) OCD about it all. I know you also feel like your body needs a break. I know this has been discussed elsewhere too and that you are your own man and will do what you want to do, just thought I'd say my peace, friend to friend. See, you're not just a mate anymore :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I just think you'd be surprised at how well maintenance would suit:-
> 
> 1.your physique 
> 
> 2. Your mood 
> 
> 3. Your wife ( who must have the patience if a Saint?)
> 
> I know you don't like 'normal' diets. I know you are a little (or a lot) OCD about it all. I know you also feel like your body needs a break. I know this has been discussed elsewhere too and that you are your own man and will do what you want to do, just thought I'd say my peace,* friend to friend. See, you're not just a mate anymore*


LOL.. everyone keeps saying that about my wife! LOL.. surely i dont come across as irritable on here do i? 

1. i am working towards getting to full maintenance. this is the last week at 2 training days. next week i get to eat well 3 days and the following week i go to EOD. its already a lot better now though because i get 1500-1800cals on fasting days instead of 600-800cals. i dont eat until 7pm usually so its a very big meal and then a big bowl of cottage cheese (with strawberry preserves mixed in) and blueberries.. which is freaking awesome BTW and u should try it! but u have to put the jam in the cottage cheese first and use frozen blueberries that have been pretty much thawed out in the microwave (but are still cold). 

2. like i said i noticed this am i look better in the mirror already. my mood i think is on the upswing. 

3. i appreciate ur concern and it is well received! i am ocd ur correct but i think it is most effective for me especially with regards to diet and training. 

4. friend: u remembered! aww, if i were with u id give u a hug right now buddy!  :Smilie:  (im not gay - not that theres anything wrong with that!  :Wink: )

----------


## Back In Black

Man hugs are good, I'd give you one too (a hug that is)

My Mrs would have booted me out if I was dieting like you were, that's all I meant. You'd best ask yours if you're irritable or not. I don't think you are btw, I'm still enjoying sharing your journey :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ im curious why would ur MRs boot u if u dieted like i do? 

for the record i think she would rather have a pissed off rattlesnake for a husband than me some of the time here lately is the impression i have gotten!  :Wink:

----------


## human project

> Now then 405, this is where you need to stop getting hung up on numbers. You are clearly leaner than last time and, as your bf gets lower and Lowe that 0.6% difference is much more obvious. Plus, there always needs to be an allowance that the bodpods doesn't give an exact reading.


Ya I know everyone says that bod pods are the best but honestly IMHO for people with a very large amount of dense muscle mass it doesn't seem very arcuate... I have a friend who clearly has more mature dense muscle then I but it is also very obvious that he has much more body fat then I do and he always tests around half the fat that I do. Ill ask him tomorrow if he cares if I post pics of us standing next to each other and you can get a better idea of what I'm talkin about.

----------


## Back In Black

> Ya I know everyone says that bod pods are the best but honestly IMHO for people with a very large amount of dense muscle mass it doesn't seem very arcuate... I have a friend who clearly has more mature dense muscle then I but it is also very obvious that he has much more body fat then I do and he always tests around half the fat that I do. Ill ask him tomorrow if he cares if I post pics of us standing next to each other and you can get a better idea of what I'm talkin about.


Is that a one off or every single time? Do you both eat or drink beforehand?

----------


## human project

> ^^ thx pal.. Similar logic to wat i had. Had forgotten about smaller drops being more significant looking though.. Good call 
> 
> 9.3% is pretty dang good but i want more!!


I'm telling you man your wayyyy under 9... There is a huge variance once you break under the 5% mark bc that's when everything makes a huge difference in your appearance but damn near minimal on any test.... Under the 5-6% mark the visual aspects really come into play. These are usually your natural thickness of skin, tightness of skin, density of muscle, WATET RETRNTION.... Tons of other things also such as pump of blood, blood pressure, sodium level, any level..... From about 12% down to at very least 7% ya id say any visual changes are most likely a reduction in bodyfat (and obviously water retention) but once your under that "as I think your around 6 and a half and 7 everything comes into play; even supplements.

One more thing to add. I found even particular foods literally make me look leaner or fatter.... Sounds weird but if I eat a bowl of oats and wait an hr it looks like I put on ten lbs of fat... Again prob an allergy that causes issues with water for me personally.. Try this... Carb deplete and then eat a bowl of salsa along with 3 beers and take a before and after pic... Guarantee your wayyyyyy leaner after the beer and salsa....

----------


## human project

Alright 405 sorry but I have to ask bc I'm sick of flipping through posts to see where you were when... You mind giving us a timeline of pix??? Actually it would be cool to add it with a timeline in the members pix

----------


## human project

> Is that a one off or every single time? Do you both eat or drink beforehand?


No both fasted and just about every time its done one right after another.... He always talks shit and says I'm just nasty veiny and he has ridiculously thick skin but I say 1.  thats bs, 2. he's fat, and 3. the test is bunk lol. Honestly the man does have some crazy skin... Lol I always say he looks like rubber and you can't pinch him for shit... Especially if he's really pumped. Now this rubber thick skin shit obviously goes away after a certain % bf drop but still it seems to be something to note.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well HP i like the way u think! (6.5%-7%bf) LOL.. of course it makes no difference in how i look as to where im at whether it be 6 or 9 i still look the same! i hear what ur saying about water and stuff and thats very interesting! i eat a ton of salt! i use it with my beef and i have ketchup and hot sauce and never count it but am prob 2x the amount i should be eating according to the FDA.. 

as far as pics i will try to come up with a progression but i dont know how to post the pics where u dont have to make the little box?  :Hmmmm:  maybe someone can teach me??

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i had a good workout in the gym today especially after dinner last nite (pictured in my current avi  :Wink: ).

looks like the YMCA is gonna have to invest in some more DB's because i have officially outgrown all they have to offer! 

the benches were all occupied so i had to do DB's on flat bench. here is what i did:

70's x 10
95's x 7
115's x 6
125's x 5
125's x 5

i couldve gone heavier as well! YMCA get some more weight im too strong for what u have in stock!  :Wink:

----------


## energizer bunny

Good stuff 405!.........youl have to hit up a new gym lol...........is that home made pizza?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Good stuff 405!.........youl have to hit up a new gym lol...........is that home made pizza?


negative.. Carabba's! and it was freaking awesome!  :Smilie:

----------


## energizer bunny

> negative.. Carabba's! and it was freaking awesome!


ha...bet it was! love me some pizza! just plain for me though.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> ha...bet it was! love me some pizza! just plain for me though.


the one pictured is pepperoni, mushroom, italian sausage!

----------


## energizer bunny

All to your self or did you share?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> All to your self or did you share?


are u kidding!?!  :Hmmmm: 

i considered ordering the filet marsala for myself in addition to the entire pizza! (and im NOT kidding) but i did eat half my wife's filet and some of my daughters..

dude i can eat man! LOL  :Smilie:

----------


## energizer bunny

> are u kidding!?! 
> 
> i considered ordering the filet marsala for myself in addition to the entire pizza! (and im NOT kidding) but i did eat half my wife's filet and some of my daughters..
> 
> dude i can eat man! LOL


haha.......thats the way...mate i can eat junk food and snacks for a living!..........id bet i could eat more crisps than anyone on here! love them

----------


## --->>405<<---

just screwing around bored had the wife put the calipers on me to see what they said:

9-site
chest: 4
bicep: 3
tricep: 3.5
thigh: 5
abs: 6.5 
calf: 3.5
supraillac: 3.5
lower back: 9
subscapular: 10

Body Fat %: 6.89%
Lbs/Kgs of Body Fat: 12.96 lbs
Lean Body Weight: 175.04 lbs

basically 1% lower than ive ever been using this method and about 8lbs heavier to boot!  :Smilie:

----------


## cj111

I need to get me some of those calipers.. does walmart sell em ?

----------


## likelifting

> just screwing around bored had the wife put the calipers on me to see what they said:
> 
> 9-site
> chest: 4
> bicep: 3
> tricep: 3.5
> thigh: 5
> abs: 6.5 
> calf: 3.5
> ...


Great job!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I need to get me some of those calipers.. does walmart sell em ?


LOL.. not the ones i have. theyre harpenden calipers.. $400

of course they are only as good as the person using them! last time i chekd them against the bod pod they were about 5% off!  :Smilie:  was just doing it for fun. the bod pod has me at 9%.. im prob somewhere in between..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well its official: im sick!  :Frown:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well being sick sucks.. except for the lying around all day and eating and sleeping  :Smilie:

----------


## Zodiac82

caught the stomach bug thats been goin around huh

----------


## --->>405<<---

> caught the stomach bug thats been goin around huh


no, not stomach, more like feel like an 80yr old man with achy back and pretty much every joint.. neck, etc.. fever, cough, sore throat, stuffy head.. ugh!  :7up: 

(ok the dancing smiley didnt convince me i feel better!)

----------


## Back In Black

> no, not stomach, more like feel like an 80yr old man with achy back and pretty much every joint.. neck, etc.. fever, cough, sore throat, stuffy head.. ugh! 
> 
> (ok the dancing smiley didnt convince me i feel better!)


Ah, that was me over Xmas. 2 bloody weeks it lasted for me.

Get well soon friend :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Ah, that was me over Xmas. 2 bloody weeks it lasted for me.
> 
> Get well soon friend


dang im only on day 2.. 100.3 degree (37.9 celsius  :Wink: ) temp.. dizzy, cold, hot.. not something i like! i hardly ever get sick! 

thx buddy! i have to get back to work and it looks like ill be home again tomorrow..

----------


## Back In Black

I was only 2.5 weeks post op too. 2 solid days in bed mate, that'll be a good start.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I was only 2.5 weeks post op too. 2 solid days in bed mate, that'll be a good start.


yeh been on couch all day today.. prob will be tomorrow! i told my wife this morning i was confused about what to do: "i dont really think cardio is a good idea and i cant figure out whether i should fast or eat or what! LMAO.. " 

so far i have been lying on my butt and when i get hungry i eat.. have tried to keep macros decent but have been a little flexible. today was supposed to be a fasting day but i figd the body needed cals to fight..

----------


## --->>405<<---

id also like to note even if i thought cardio was a good idea at this point i am physically unable to perform it..

----------


## baseline_9

> well HP i like the way u think! (6.5%-7%bf) LOL.. of course it makes no difference in how i look as to where im at whether it be 6 or 9 i still look the same! i hear what ur saying about water and stuff and thats very interesting! i eat a ton of salt! i use it with my beef and i have ketchup and hot sauce and never count it but am prob 2x the amount i should be eating according to the FDA.. 
> 
> as far as pics i will try to come up with a progression but i dont know how to post the pics where u dont have to make the little box?  maybe someone can teach me??


Use photo bucket...

Looking forward to seeing pics.... U look sick in ur avi m8

----------


## --->>405<<---

well this am i finally was able to do some exercise: cardio 45mins LISS /moderate whatever u wanna call it.. was nice to get back.. i did nothing for 3 days.. tomorrow i will be lifting.. still not 100% prob closer to 80% but a lot better..  :Smilie:

----------


## Zodiac82

> well this am i finally was able to do some exercise: cardio 45mins LISS /moderate whatever u wanna call it.. was nice to get back.. i did nothing for 3 days.. tomorrow i will be lifting.. still not 100% prob closer to 80% but a lot better..


good to hear
time to go kill it

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i really got it in good today at the gym for my first day back lifting since my illness (since sunday).. 

did upper body today: chest, back, shoulders.. 

got the bench good today:

did DB's cuz some freaking old man/asshole/idiot was (get this shit) doing fvcking dumbell bench on the barbell fvcking bench! he was also doing seated lateral raises on the BB flat bench! 

in any event:

85 x 12
100 x 7
125 x 6
125 x 6
125 x 6 (dropset) 100 x 6 (dropset) 85 x 5

then did BB flat: 225 x 10 (dropset) 135 x 12

i need some heavier Dbs!  :Smilie:  

the rest of my workout was nothing special.. took it kinda easy on shoulder press and deads and lats and rows.. but all in all was a good workout. next week i may go to a 3 or 4 day split..

----------


## --->>405<<---

nailed the crap out of legs today. did giant sets of squat, leg extension, leg curl and also did 3 drop sets mixed into the giant sets for my last giant set.. it was awesome!

----------


## bikeral

I'll be running into same problem at my gym. Heaviest DB's are 120. Figure I'll do some barbell work first to pre-exhaust before hitting the dumbbell's. Really do not want to change gyms cause the one I go to is less then a block from my house.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I'll be running into same problem at my gym. Heaviest DB's are 120. *Figure I'll do some barbell work first to pre-exhaust before hitting the dumbbell's.* Really do not want to change gyms cause the one I go to is less then a block from my house.


not a bad idea there al!  :Smilie:  hows it going buddy!

----------


## bikeral

All good. Looking forward to see your cycle results.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> All good. Looking forward to see your cycle results.


LOL.. me 2! that is still a couple months away. (june/july) it should be interesting!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

Just sayin hi!!! Drinking about 1 gal of water a day. Can't do much more!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

hey GGR. a gallon per day is more than enuff for u..  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

man my leg workout sunday has got me sore like i hadnt lifted in years! obviously i need to increase my intensity in the gym to match this every time! theres something to be said for drop sets..

----------


## bikeral

You motivated me to pick up the 120's. Only pushed 5 reps on the incline bench but the end is near. I'll have to hit the barbell first soon.

----------


## Brick

> You motivated me to pick up the 120's. Only pushed 5 reps on the incline bench but the end is near. I'll have to hit the barbell first soon.


Makes my new pr of 90x5 look paltry! Well done

----------


## --->>405<<---

> You motivated me to pick up the 120's. Only pushed 5 reps on the incline bench but the end is near. I'll have to hit the barbell first soon.


glad i can still motivate u al!  :Smilie:

----------


## bikeral

> Makes my new pr of 90x5 look paltry! Well done


Thanks Brick, Keep at it 90lbs is not paltry.




> glad i can still motivate u al!


Believe me, you always do.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i have now been on maintenance (or at least not cutting) for 4 weeks. i have tapered my cals back up from where they were on my cut. today i decided to really look at them as i have not been as diligent as i am capable, or have been in the past mainly because i havent had to be. nonetheless i will post below my total cals and macros of what appear to be maintenance as well as a couple pics from a few weeks ago and current because i dont think ive gained any fat, or at least a very small amount. i have filled out a little and my weight has gone up by 5lbs. 

current stats:
195lbs @9.5%bf 
waist: 32.5" (holding here which i am monitoring daily like a hawk!)

*training day maintenance diet:*
4466cals
403g pro
497g carbs
101g fat 

^^i must say these numbers surprised me but i am very happy to see i am not gaining much fat with this many cals, carbs, and fat! actually i am hoping to pickj up some LBM maybe thru a lean(ish) bulk

*non-training day:*
1602cals
159g pro
94g carbs
63g fat

my schedule typically is EOD now. sometimes i will run 2 non-training days in a row to try to offset the cals. i also fast 21-24hrs on non-training days from the night before.. also do minimum 45min cardio on this day to a max of 70mins split into 2 sessions.. occasionally i leae the cottage cheese and blueberries off as well which reduces the cals and macros further to:
1274cals
134g pro
51g carbs (15g fiber)
57g fat

as u can see there is a lot of room for variance.. i also will occasionally munch on capn crunch on these days too. its a balancing act playing with these items, much moreso than when i first started this thing 18months ago. 

on average i would say my cals on both days combined equal 6000 which gives me a net of 3000cals ED.. i am finding this very effective at being able to have a variety of food choices in my diet to offset boredom and satisfy my cravings..  :Smilie: 

the first pic was a month ago today and the second pic today.. pretty close IMO  :Smilie:

----------


## RaginCajun

damn bud!

you are really taking this to the extreme. i am glad that you are posting all of this for others to see that everyone works differently and that there is no one diet out there for everyone.

are you still using peptides?

----------


## --->>405<<---

Hey cajun thx dude.. Yes still on peps , non training days i do pre cardio and pre bed, training days pwo and pre bed..

----------


## twitz

Looking fantastic 405! 

How many days/week do you train/eat at maintenance?

It doesn't look like you've gained any BF. Awesome work!

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ thx twitz  :Smilie: 

As far as how many days i eat at maintenance.. The answer: none! And everyday all at the same time!  :Wink: 

Since i cycle carbs and by default calories my "maintenance" intake is more an average of cals consumed over a week as opposed to over a 24hr period.. This enables me to have a lot of freedom in my diet while staying lean. 

I owe a LOT of this to fasting. I fast EOD.. All day from waking til usually 1900.. These days are also where i do my cardio.  :Smilie:

----------


## Soar

Holy crap.. Talk about solid! Nice work

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Holy crap.. Talk about solid! Nice work


Thx pal!  :Smilie:

----------


## energizer bunny

Great work mate!.......you know your body very well now and it shows.......you can now enjoy the foods you like while maintaining a great body, for me that is the ultimate goal! well done.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Great work mate!.......you know your body very well now and it shows.......you can now enjoy the foods you like while maintaining a great body, for me that is the ultimate goal! well done.


yeh thx EB.. it is good to know ur body.. i am still learning! the longer we do this the better we get!  :Smilie:

----------


## mockery

> well i have now been on maintenance (or at least not cutting) for 4 weeks. i have tapered my cals back up from where they were on my cut. today i decided to really look at them as i have not been as diligent as i am capable, or have been in the past mainly because i havent had to be. nonetheless i will post below my total cals and macros of what appear to be maintenance as well as a couple pics from a few weeks ago and current because i dont think ive gained any fat, or at least a very small amount. i have filled out a little and my weight has gone up by 5lbs. 
> 
> current stats:
> 195lbs @9.5%bf 
> waist: 32.5" (holding here which i am monitoring daily like a hawk!)
> 
> *training day maintenance diet:*
> 4466cals
> 403g pro
> ...



*Several studies concluded that diets low in fat (under 15% of total calories) significantly decreased testosterone levels while diets higher in fat (above 30% of total calories) increased serum testosterone levels.
*

no homo

----------


## --->>405<<---

> *Several studies concluded that diets low in fat (under 15% of total calories) significantly decreased testosterone levels while diets higher in fat (above 30% of total calories) increased serum testosterone levels.
> *
> 
> no homo


interesting. i am on TRT so if i want to increase serum test levels i can just give myself a bigger shot!  :Wink: 

dont get the "NO HOMO" part.. is it a tag?

----------


## gbrice75

> interesting. i am on TRT so if i want to increase serum test levels i can just give myself a bigger shot!


When you think about the pathways/precursors that ultimately lead to testosterone , it makes sense. Fat > Cholesterol > Pregnenolone > DHEA > Testosterone. I know I left a couple out, e.g. prog, etc. but for the purpose of this discussion this example should be sufficient. 

Having said that, I wouldn't recommend people jump onto a diet that has them getting 30% of daily calories from fats. For one, we're all different, and both 15% and 30% are arbitrary numbers. Second, we have to bear in mind that fat is still most likely (or better put, most readily) stored as bodyfat. Point being - there is a fine balance that each individual needs to find for his/herself.

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ what he said!  :Smilie:  

also i hit a *PR today on deads: 415lbs x 3* (yes!) pretty happy with that, went up 50lbs from my previous 365 x 5.. i suspect i could probably add at least another 30lbs, maybe 50lbs for a 1 rep max of 445-465.. ill save it for another day. id also like to note this was at the end of my workout after doing some pretty heavy rows and shoulder presses and lawnmowers (or whatever u call em)..

----------


## gbrice75

> ^^ what he said!  
> 
> also i hit a *PR today on deads: 415lbs x 3* (yes!) pretty happy with that, went up 50lbs from my previous 365 x 5.. i suspect i could probably add at least another 30lbs, maybe 50lbs for a 1 rep max of 445-465.. ill save it for another day. id also like to note this was at the end of my workout after doing some pretty heavy rows and shoulder presses and lawnmowers (or whatever u call em)..


Congrats! Glad to know there's one lift I'm currently beating you in. I don't feel like a dick saying this since I can't touch your squat, lol.  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Congrats! Glad to know there's one lift I'm currently beating you in. I don't feel like a dick saying this since I can't touch your squat, lol.


LOL.. yeh i have not been very aggressive with this lift as i feel it carries the most risk. what is ur PR dead BTW?  :Wink:  (target) LOL..

----------


## gbrice75

> LOL.. yeh i have not been very aggressive with this lift as i feel it carries the most risk. what is ur PR dead BTW?  (target) LOL..


I've never specifically gone for PR for either reps or 1RM, but my best to date was 435 x 7. Next goal would be 495 x 5... but I won't even attempt it until I start 'bulking' again later this fall. Ain't gonna happen while I'm cutting, lol.

----------


## Etbthree

:Nutkick:

----------


## mockery

> When you think about the pathways/precursors that ultimately lead to testosterone , it makes sense. Fat > Cholesterol > Pregnenolone > DHEA > Testosterone. I know I left a couple out, e.g. prog, etc. but for the purpose of this discussion this example should be sufficient. 
> 
> Having said that, I wouldn't recommend people jump onto a diet that has them getting 30% of daily calories from fats. For one, we're all different, and both 15% and 30% are arbitrary numbers. Second, we have to bear in mind that fat is still most likely (or better put, most readily) stored as bodyfat. Point being - there is a fine balance that each individual needs to find for his/herself.


Yes but people are not finding out what works for them, there seems to be a fanboi mentality of this board lately that fats are bad and fat makes you fat, and as u said fat is stored as fat. Its using the right fats at the right times to have proper delivery of fats to help promote test production and weight loss. Every post in the past 5 weeks on lean bulking seems to be like "WATCH OUT BROTHER , DONT EAT FATS." Yes ask any good body builder on his show prep, butter, fish oil and other animal fats are consumed in large amounts.

Its painful to see this forum is going into teh direction of just use more gear to look jacked, dont eat fat just have massive carb refeeds and you will be swole and the idea that everyone has a very high LBM but refuse to get proper tested to take in account , brain, bone density and organ mass. so their rmr is way off for finding true tdee. Is a generation of gear use for aesthetics and goggling diet plans. Heck how many board members are using UD2.0 that are 12-18% body fat when they could easily lose the weight with a simpler approach and then they stall when they get sub 11% and dont get me started on the whole " bro im losing fat weight only and no muscle mass , im so jacked" then they say they are losing 3-4lbs a week. When even the most amateur bodybuilder knows to avoid mass loss you have to go at it slow .5-1lb a week deficit or its defiantly muscle mass you are losing. hence 12-16 week cuts , and some hard gainers is 20--22 week cuts. 

thread hijack!

but everyone looks up to you guys , a bit too much they dont even learn what they need to eat or what their actual requirements are. If gbruce or 405 said i have to eat 2400 calories that's what im gonna eat! its painful to read threads in the diet forum lately.

----------


## gbrice75

> Yes but people are not finding out what works for them, there seems to be a fanboi mentality of this board lately that fats are bad and fat makes you fat, and as u said fat is stored as fat. Its using the right fats at the right times to have proper delivery of fats to help promote test production and weight loss. Every post in the past 5 weeks on lean bulking seems to be like "WATCH OUT BROTHER , DONT EAT FATS." Yes ask any good body builder on his show prep, butter, fish oil and other animal fats are consumed in large amounts.
> 
> Its painful to see this forum is going into teh direction of just use more gear to look jacked, dont eat fat just have massive carb refeeds and you will be swole and the idea that everyone has a very high LBM but refuse to get proper tested to take in account , brain, bone density and organ mass. so their rmr is way off for finding true tdee. Is a generation of gear use for aesthetics and goggling diet plans. Heck how many board members are using UD2.0 that are 12-18% body fat when they could easily lose the weight with a simpler approach and then they stall when they get sub 11% and dont get me started on the whole " bro im losing fat weight only and no muscle mass , im so jacked" then they say they are losing 3-4lbs a week. When even the most amateur bodybuilder knows to avoid mass loss you have to go at it slow .5-1lb a week deficit or its defiantly muscle mass you are losing. hence 12-16 week cuts , and some hard gainers is 20--22 week cuts.
> 
> thread hijack!
> 
> but everyone looks up to you guys , a bit too much they dont even learn what they need to eat or what their actual requirements are. If gbruce or 405 said i have to eat 2400 calories that's what im gonna eat! its painful to read threads in the diet forum lately.


I'm on my phone so can't reply in detail now, but all I can say is I always try to educate people and even more, try to get them to educate themselves. I make suggestions, or tell people 'personally I would....' but I rarely get involved in 'telling' people what to do. Where are these threads you're referring to, and who are the people giving this advice you disagree with? I don't know if you're referring to me and/or 405, but I can tell you I hardly ever reply to 'critique my diet' threads these days, quite frankly because it bores me and I'm kinda burned out from it. 

As for fats... again I can only offer my personal opinion and experience along with the experiences of others I've worked with not just here but on a personal level. I have never said fats are bad - I'm well aware of how essential they are and the role they play with regard to test production among other functions. I'm simply not a fan of the 'high fat lower carb' school of dieting. A few years ago the trend around here was how carbs are bad, bla bla etc. IMO, it's all about balance. If people aren't doing the legwork and finding what really works for them as an individual, they're only short changing themselves. I'm sleeping like a baby at night knowing I gave what I believe is solid advice. 

There, a long winded response. You sucked me in... fcker!

----------


## RaginCajun

> ^^ what he said! 
> 
> also i hit a PR today on deads: 415lbs x 3 (yes!) pretty happy with that, went up 50lbs from my previous 365 x 5.. i suspect i could probably add at least another 30lbs, maybe 50lbs for a 1 rep max of 445-465.. ill save it for another day. id also like to note this was at the end of my workout after doing some pretty heavy rows and shoulder presses and lawnmowers (or whatever u call em)..


Awesome! 

Now you just need to get what you set out to do, bench 405!

Great work man

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Awesome! 
> 
> Now you just need to get what you set out to do, bench 405!
> 
> Great work man


LOL.. ur rite! i hope to maybe achieve this when i bulk starting in june/july. i plan to run 2 bulks between now and this time next year. i suspect i will get it during one of these times..

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok mock i am going to try to be thorough here for u. 

1. my diet above that precipitated ur quote and comment on dietary fat amounts consisted of 3 difft caloric and macronutrient days with different values. the first:
training day maintenance diet:
*4466cals*
403g pro
497g carbs
*101g fat* 
101 x 9 = 909cals from fat

909/4466 = *.2035% cals from fat (not 15% or less)
*
the second:

non-training day:
*1602cals*
159g pro
94g carbs
*63g fat*

63 x 9 = 567

567/1602 = *.3539% cals from fat (not less than 15%)*

the third:
*1274cals*
134g pro
51g carbs (15g fiber)
*57g fat*

57 x 9 = 513

513/1274 = *.4026% cals from fat (NOT 15% or less)*

due to these calculations i am failing to see why u chose this post to initiate ur argument??  :Hmmmm: 

also up until this point i thought we had a fairly amicable relationship. i cant tell from this hijack whether or not ur intentions are good or bad?? 

*SEE BELOW*

[QUOTE=mockery;6431666]


> Yes but people are not finding out what works for them, there seems to be a fanboi mentality of this board lately that fats are bad and fat makes you fat, and as u said fat is stored as fat. Its using the right fats at the right times to have proper delivery of fats to help promote test production and weight loss.


fanboi mentality? 

*fanboi: Someone who is hopelessly devoted to something and will like anything associated with thier particular thing.* 

so what the heck is this supposed to mean? typically when people come on to this site they dont know a lot and are looking for help. the guys who have been here or in this lifestyle (fitness/bodybuilding) offer their experience and knowledge to the new guys in good faith to try to help them and teach them. i know i do this to show appreciation for those who did it for me. naturally the new guys are going to value what we say to a certain extent. i encourage everyone to learn for themselves and seek answers for themselves, but in the beginning it helps to have someone guide you until u get ur feet wet.. 





> Every post in the past 5 weeks on* lean bulking* seems to be like "WATCH OUT BROTHER , DONT EAT FATS." Yes ask any good body builder on his* show prep*, butter, fish oil and other animal fats are consumed in large amounts.


im not sure how u compare a contest-prep diet to a lean bulking diet?  :Hmmmm:  why are u comparing them to try to make a point?? it is common knowledge to not have large quantities of fats and carbs present simultaneously. i think this applies more toward an overall than meal by meal. the tactics for a contest prep and a lean bulk are gonna be totally different.. 




> Its painful to see this forum is going into teh direction of just use more gear to look jacked, dont eat fat just have massive carb refeeds and you will be swole and the idea that everyone has a very high LBM but refuse to get proper tested to take in account , brain, bone density and organ mass. so their rmr is way off for finding true tdee.


considering i have NEVER run an AAS cycle it should be obvious i do not condone this behavior, and from what i have seen none of the Vets or Knowledgeable Members endorse "just use more gear to get jacked". this is simply a B.S. statement from every post i have seen. where do u get the idea we assume everyone has a high LBM?? i almost always recommend BOD POD to everyone i advise dietarily. are u just making this stuff up as u go along?? 




> Is a generation of gear use for aesthetics and goggling diet plans. Heck how many board members are using UD2.0 that are 12-18% body fat when they could easily lose the weight with a simpler approach and then they stall when they get sub 11% and dont get me started on the whole " bro im losing fat weight only and no muscle mass , im so jacked" then they say they are losing 3-4lbs a week. When even the most amateur bodybuilder knows to avoid mass loss you have to go at it slow .5-1lb a week deficit or its defiantly muscle mass you are losing. hence 12-16 week cuts , and some hard gainers is 20--22 week cuts.


i personally have only seen a couple board members use UD2.0 and from what i recall they were 12-14% bf.. if u read UD2 Lyle MacDonald (the author) states: 
"First and foremost, if you're a male, you should have no more than 15% bodyfat, female no more than 22% bodyfat." 

based on this u need to re-think the figures u posted above as they are inaccurate.. furthermore i always recommend using the simplest approach to diet first. more complex methods should only be applied when necessary. i learned this from Lyle MacDonald... 





> thread hijack!


yes it is and im still unsure of the basis for it!?  :Hmmmm: 




> but everyone looks up to you guys , a bit too much they dont even learn what they need to eat or what their actual requirements are. If gbruce or 405 said i have to eat 2400 calories that's what im gonna eat! its painful to read threads in the diet forum lately.


this above post right here is what i really dont get! u say everyone looks up to us "a bit too much" ??? how do u know how much people do or dont look up to us? what are u basing this observation on, and how do u quantify it in such a way as to ascribe the value "too much" to it?? if this is done based on the posts above, then it is in error because i havent found anything u said (as it applies to me personally and from what ive seen GB as well) to hold water.. 

it appears moreso that ur estimation of me and GB being "looked up to too much" to be more of an emotionally based statement. as a self-proclaimed researcher i shouldnt have to warn u of the potential for inaccuracy when u start throwing emotion into equations. i will say this is only my opinion.. 

on a final note i would like to give u my own observation: i have not and do not follow what u do on here BUT most of what i have seen from u lately has simply been argumentative in nature, offering nothing more than trying to prove someone wrong and insinuate that u know better. IMO u would fare better to spend less time trying to beat down other members who are trying to help others and spend more time practicing what u preach!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well this is week 5 of maintenance and i think my body has finally adjusted fully to the increase of carbs and cals. I have lost some water and appear leaner than when i finished my cut! 

I am very happy with my current metabolic state as being able to eat 1500-1800cals one day and 4500-5000cals the next and maintain 10% bf is freaking awesome! I dont know how much of this is being helped by the peptides and carnitine but im not gonna concern myself with this. 

Until this point maintenance for me has not gone well. As a matter of fact it has always turned into a mini bulk of sorts because i was gaining weight anyways and didnt feel like dealing with reducing cals afer having come off a cut. I was hungry! 

Im thinking maybe my body has made some (hopefully) permanent metabolic/nutrient partitioning shifts toward the positive side as a result of optimal hormone levels over the last yr and a half plus consistent good diet and exercise. I was a bit uneasy as to how i would do with maintenance this time and feel very pleased with the amount of food and freedom of choice i have and also feel very in control of my body composition, a trait i have never possessed until now! 

I must say im in the best shape of my life at 38yrs old and hope to continue to improve. Just today i decided to do a 5 mile run for cardio and it was no problem. It wasnt even uncomfortable in the least. My heart and cardiovascular system must be very fit because i could pretty much run with my mouth shut if i wanted to and breathe out of my nose. My pace was about 8:30(ish) per mile so i wasnt crawling either. Very relaxed.. 

I also owe a lot of my dietary freedom to fasting which i have mentioned a good bit on here. Anyone that wants to try it i highly recommend it! I can say nothing but good things about it. The freedom it affords me in being able to eat poor (but tasty choices) without gaining fat plus the size meals i get to eat now is just fabulous!! 

That is all for now.. I will probably get my wife to take some pics of me one of these days with her camera as the self taking phone pics dont do me justice..  :Smilie:

----------


## Bodacious

Het 405 what r petidies and carnitine ? Jw

Also when u fast ur eating nothing not even veggies? What do u usally eat after ur fast? Thanks

----------


## --->>405<<---

carnitine and peptides both can be used to burn more fat than u could burn without them. i suggest u google it!  :Smilie: 

the carnitine i use is injectable (IM) and to maintain saturation use 6mL per week split into 2 x 3mL injections. it must be timed with 75-100g mostly high GI carbs to shuttle the carnitine past the blood brain barrier by utilizing endogenous insulin released as a result of the large carb consumption. be sure not to ingest any fats or proteins immediately with the carbs.. 

the peptides i use are GHRP-2 and MOD GRF (1-29) 

they are growth hormone releasing secretagogues that when injected sub q cause an endogenous growth hormone pulse. they also release ffa's into the blood for oxidation.. 

do some research...  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok lets see if this image shack thing works for me and i am not actually an idiot!  :Wink: 

this is how i break my fast: big salad + teriyaki beef, peppers, onion.. yes  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok it only [artially worked??  :Hmmmm:

----------


## JohnnnyBlazzze

I remember reading this when you first started about 2 years ago and you're still going. Love checking in and seeing what you are up to time from time, always something new!

and I see a mountain dew in your fast breaking!

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ JB wat up dude! thx for stopping by ur always welcome!  :Smilie: 

yeh the diet dew man gotta love it!

----------


## --->>405<<---

one final note here (well not final but u know wat i mean).. i am taking the next 2 days completely off! my body is telling me it needs a break and im listening to it! u know since october i have been on an EOD protocol or [1. cardio/fast, 2. cardio/fast, 3. train... REPEAT] protocol.. well since october i bet u i have not taken 5 days off! literally! i either do cardio or lift everyday.. i know for sure i took 2 rest days for christmas and thxgiving and one other rest day and thats all i can remember.. that makes 3.. well call 2 additional ive forgotten so 5 days off in 5.5 months.. this makes my first sentence in this post a little more clear to yall im hoping!  :Wink: 

my groin on both sides is tender as a MOFO from racing some younger taller guy yesterday on the last 1/4 mile of my fasted 5 mile run.. LOL.. i guess im getting old.. for those of u who are wonderiing we tied but i did have to slow down because i was spent.. i pushed my legs as hard as i could and they just wouldnt go any harder. had they been fresh i wouldve won.. whats funny is i came up beside him and neither of us looked at the other and both just started running faster and faster LOL until we were full on sprinting.. he was prob 22-23years old and prob 6'2" and i doubt he was on the tail end of mile 5.. 

my poor groin.. i must be getting older!  :Smilie:  so in any event i am taking tomorrow and saturday off from working out but i will be fasting both days..

----------


## energizer bunny

2 day fast! thats pretty hardcore!.......what if anything do you consume on these 48 hour fasts?............obviuoslytons of water but what else? coffe? green veg?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 2 day fast! thats pretty hardcore!.......what if anything do you consume on these 48 hour fasts?............obviuoslytons of water but what else? coffe? green veg?


its not a 48hr fast.. its about 21-24 hr fast .. 2 days in a row..  :Smilie:

----------


## JohnnnyBlazzze

405, im lookin around on google or amazon for a body fat reader. I'm not very handy with calipers and I've been meaning to by one of these electric ones. I know you recommended one on here, just can't seem to find it.

There is a bunch on amazon but I dont want to get a crummy one  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

bioimpedance IMO is a waste of money. ud do better to just take tape measurements and use the mirror and photos to track progress. if u want to find out an accurate BF% go to a bod pod or get a dxa scan..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Fyi guys im doing cardio here in a minute.. I just couldnt bring myself to take the day completely off!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

405. Do u use cutting supplements like phen for ex?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 405. Do u use cutting supplements like phen for ex?


the only thing i have used is: ECA, L-Carnitine, peptides.. 

currently im on L Car and peps.. may run some ECA leading up to this cruise.. down the road when i grow up ill run T3.. that ll me next year.. 

in reality i havent seen anything work better than a good properly run carb cycle and cardio coupled with alternate day fasting  :Smilie:

----------


## slfmade

Just stopped in to check on you. Nice work!!!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Just stopped in to check on you. Nice work!!!!!


Hey dude!! Look wat the cat dragged in!  :Smilie:  hope ur doing well man.. Thx for stoppn by and try to come around more often dude.. Say hey to browngirl for me  :Smilie:

----------


## human project

> its not a 48hr fast.. its about 21-24 hr fast .. 2 days in a row..


What's up with the fast 405??? Is this for an ultra fasted cardio?? Could you elaborate I haven't been following your log very closely lately.... I've started posting on mine again... Come check in man; I started it bc of seeing yours... The accountability factor really keeps you on point

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^^ yeh ill come chek urs out  :Smilie: 

Fasting is part of semi new protocol im doing to stay relatively lean with more dietary freedom  :Smilie: 

Legs: SOB.. 
Warm up squat: 
135 x 10
225 x 7
315 x 5
405 x 3
405 x 9 drop set 315 x 15 drop set 225 x 20 ( MOFO SOB!!) 

Superset squAt with triple drop set leg extension.. Them strait to leg curl same thing.. 

Then repeat one more time!! 

Also did some calves.. Planned on maybe abs but gonna pass. Im thru dude. Forget about even considering cardio. Drop sets to failure are where its at if u have no workout partner like me (i prefer this) ..

----------


## -KJ-

I know you like the UD2.0 diet... ive just read the book! excellent read and very interesting!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I know you like the UD2.0 diet... ive just read the book! excellent read and very interesting!


yes it was. i suggest u read stubborn fat solution!

----------


## -KJ-

ill try get my hands on it... have you implemented UD2? i know you carb cycle but the training behind it also

----------


## --->>405<<---

> ill try get my hands on it... have you implemented UD2? i know you carb cycle but the training behind it also


yeh i ran the whole thing for like shoot 8 weeks or so back in feb-april (ish) 2012

----------


## -KJ-

> yeh i ran the whole thing for like shoot 8 weeks or so back in feb-april (ish) 2012


Ill look back.. would like to see beginning/end stats and results cheers 405!

Also looking at regular carb cycling

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Ill look back.. would like to see beginning/end stats and results cheers 405!
> 
> Also looking at regular carb cycling


UD2 taught me a TON about myself and carbohydrate manipulation. to me it is the epitome of the carb cycle as it is on the outer edge of extreme IMO especially as it pertains to the carb load. 

u get to experience the pain required to fully deplete in 48-72hrs plus u get to witness the weight loss from water as well as the visual difference of being depleted and the weaker performance and carb cravings, then u get the full on effect of loading up on carbs (7000cals and 1300+ grams carbs in 30hrs) and replenishing as well as seeing the fullness and water weight and strength come back! 

itll teach u a LOT about urself and diet and the carbohydrate macronutrient in general. it is a great stepping stone for learning diet IMO.  :Smilie: 

oh and getting to eat 7000cals in 30hrs primarily carbs is freaking awesome and at least worth one go round with the diet!

----------


## -KJ-

> UD2 taught me a TON about myself and carbohydrate manipulation. to me it is the epitome of the carb cycle as it is on the outer edge of extreme IMO especially as it pertains to the carb load. 
> 
> u get to experience the pain required to fully deplete in 48-72hrs plus u get to witness the weight loss from water as well as the visual difference of being depleted and the weaker performance and carb cravings, then u get the full on effect of loading up on carbs (7000cals and 1300+ grams carbs in 30hrs) and replenishing as well as seeing the fullness and water weight and strength come back! 
> 
> itll teach u a LOT about urself and diet and the carbohydrate macronutrient in general. it is a great stepping stone for learning diet IMO. 
> 
> oh and getting to eat 7000cals in 30hrs primarily carbs is freaking awesome and at least worth one go round with the diet!


Well first is first im at 19-20% bf down from 26% but Im getting bored and inconsistent which is why Im looking at other diets and like you said will teach me a lot. Also a 'harder' diet will give me more to think about and Ill be excited about it. I know the diet said ~15% is good BUT didnt say not to at 20% unless i missed it.

The plan also will fit in nicely with my schedule If i shift it one day to what is outlined in the book. 

My other thought was a basic carb cycle to get down another bit and then hit UD2 but as you said it is the epitome of carb cycling. 

Im just so bored and sick of eating the same day after day. Im sure you understand after cutting for so long. (Again congrats BTW)

----------


## --->>405<<---

first thing first: what is ur progress like now? are u still dropping bf%? if ur at 20%bf i do NOT suggest u start UD2..

----------


## -KJ-

> first thing first: what is ur progress like now? are u still dropping bf%? if ur at 20%bf i do NOT suggest u start UD2..


Slowing now and its becoming boring. The lack of food also but I suppose thats the game.

After reading UD2 sounds like it would be best off in another few weeks. I was thinking of a carb cycle and then implement UD2 after 8 weeks.

Your the Carb Cycling go 2 man around here so input is always appreciated.

----------


## --->>405<<---

at 20%bf id be curious to see what ur current diet looks like before considering cycling carbs. the logic behind diet IMO, especially when u have a fair distance to go (20% to 10% say) is u wanna start simple and leave a good amount of room to make changes/tweaks. this is due to the fact that progress will slow and u want to be able to break thru plateaus. 

cycling carbs is en excellent tool, but im not sure if it is necessary or even warranted at this stage in ur diet (20%bf) .. where is ur diet? in ur thread i guess? (duh LOL) on page what? what ur eating right now, not what u started eating 6months ago and have deviated from..

----------


## -KJ-

> at 20%bf id be curious to see what ur current diet looks like before considering cycling carbs. the logic behind diet IMO, especially when u have a fair distance to go (20% to 10% say) is u wanna start simple and leave a good amount of room to make changes/tweaks. this is due to the fact that progress will slow and u want to be able to break thru plateaus. 
> 
> cycling carbs is en excellent tool, but im not sure if it is necessary or even warranted at this stage in ur diet (20%bf) .. where is ur diet? in ur thread i guess? (duh LOL) on page what? what ur eating right now, not what u started eating 6months ago and have deviated from..


stopped logging as I kept failing but Ive been consistent since i went away from board and just put my head down with all the knowledge ive gained. 

Well it may not take long to go from 20-15/16% so keep doing what im doing and go from there? im just finding it hard with the lack of food. a refeed every 7 days ,ay suffice what wud u say? ill get my diet up ASAP.

----------


## --->>405<<---

go back to ur thread and post ur current diet.. not a proposed diet, but what u have actually been eating. id like to see why ur progress has slowed. make sure to be exact!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well had a good back/shoulder wkout today.. managed 215lbs on seated military press.. was happy with that..  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

now this is a PWO meal:
blueberry oat pancakes (entire recipe)
1pound beef, whole bell pepper, whole onion, teriyaki sauce

1372cals
157g pro
118g carbs
30g fat

----------


## RaginCajun

> now this is a PWO meal:
> blueberry oat pancakes (entire recipe)
> 1pound beef, whole bell pepper, whole onion, teriyaki sauce
> 
> 1372cals
> 157g pro
> 118g carbs
> 30g fat


Yum!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well another excellent leg workout today! managed to increase my weight again. i tell u this maintenance thing is nice, seeing some strength gains. 

exercise bike: 5 minutes @ 90rpm

squat:
135 x 10
225 x 7
315 x 3
405 x 1
455 x 4; (drop set) 405 x 6; (drop set) 315 x 15
405 x 5; (drop set) 365 x 5; (drop set) 315 x 5 

these squats were also giant set with leg extension, leg curl, standing calves, and the final work set #2 i hit leg press x 20 reps just for good measure.. 

and also the giant sets of leg ext, curl, calves were all triple drop sets too (except calves which i just do for the hell of it as i dont need any more calf than i have - they are hereditary). i wouldnt want yall thinking i was some kind of sissy now.. so basically 10 sets per work set and then 11 sets for work set #2.. (21 total work sets on legs) 

id also like to note here i couldve probably done more weight/reps but i did all this in an empty gym.. u can only do so much when u know if u fail theres no one there to help u!  :Wink:

----------


## Back In Black

How long before you bench that 405 then 405?

Are you still working your way up to 600lb+ squats for reps?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> How long before you bench that 405 then 405?
> 
> Are you still working your way up to 600lb+ squats for reps?


not sure on the bench.. not having a spotter its kind of hard to go up.. i may go to 315 for reps next.. currently repping 295-305 x 5.. i havent tried 1rm lately.. im thinking i may have a shot come cycle time. probably not before. my legs have always been big and strong, even when i was a fat butt!  :Smilie: 

also with squat i really dont care how much i can do.. LOL. figures huh? maybe i should adopt that philosophy a it pertains to bench!

----------


## bikeral

Impressive squats buddy. Can't wait to see your cycle results. I may be going to Myrtle Beach this week. You are around there right?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Impressive squats buddy. Can't wait to see your cycle results. I may be going to Myrtle Beach this week. You are around there right?


yeh a couple hrs..  :Smilie: 

i cant wait to see them either.. a few months yet before i start.. gotta cruise and then lose the fat im sure to gain LOL..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well as yall know i go on a cruise in 4 weeks from today (YAY!  :Smilie: )

so i am tryin to lean out a little bit between now and then which means i have eliminated carbs post workout and only eat them pre workout now. i have also reduced my amount of carbs from 500g to 300g and my training day cals from 4500-5000 to about 3500.. well this am i had some things come up so i had to get all 300g carbs in between 0730-0830 which basically made it one big meal. 

heres what i ate: (LOL)

2123cals, 279g carb, 42g fat, 165g pro
1 banana
200g blueberries
2 cups cottage cheese
12 slices deli ham
2 cups egg whites
2 cups oats
4 pieces whole wheat bread

needless to say i was pretty full! i couldve eaten a little more but i didnt want to especially considering i was gonna be pumping iron 2hrs later.. 

had pretty good DB chest workout:
135 x 15
185 x 7
225 x 5
125DBs x 6 (drop set); 100DBs x 6 (drop set); 90DBs x 7; cables upper and lower (failure @15)
120DBs x 5 (drop set); 100DBs x 3 (drop set); 90DBs x 3; cables upper and lower (failure @10-12)

then i did lats.. similar style.. chins, 1 hand pull downs, whatever that cable push down movement is all to failure supersetting 

then i did 30mins cardio PWO (which i have probably only done less than 5 times in 18months!)  :Smilie:

----------


## 951thompson

> well as yall know i go on a cruise in 4 weeks from today (YAY! )
> 
> so i am tryin to lean out a little bit between now and then which means i have eliminated carbs post workout and only eat them pre workout now. i have also reduced my amount of carbs from 500g to 300g and my training day cals from 4500-5000 to about 3500.. well this am i had some things come up so i had to get all 300g carbs in between 0730-0830 which basically made it one big meal.
> 
> heres what i ate: (LOL)
> 
> 2123cals, 279g carb, 42g fat, 165g pro
> 1 banana
> 200g blueberries
> ...


Wowza 2100cal in one meal :-o im surprised your belly didnt pop  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Wowza 2100cal in one meal :-o im surprised your belly didnt pop


yeh i actually couldve eaten more! i was pretty full but not stuffed.. i think my stomach may have stretched from all that water chugging ive done  :Smilie:

----------


## 951thompson

> yeh i actually couldve eaten more! i was pretty full but not stuffed.. i think my stomach may have stretched from all that water chugging ive done


Hehe I wouldnt like to use the toilet after you, could get messy when that meal comes out of the other end  :Smilie:

----------


## RaginCajun

> yeh i actually couldve eaten more! i was pretty full but not stuffed.. i think my stomach may have stretched from all that water chugging ive done


Ever think about entering on of those eating competitions? Hahahaha

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Ever think about entering on of those eating competitions? Hahahaha


Those r disgusting. The guy that eats 100 hot dogs. Yuk! Gotta be a nightmare in the whole digestive system. 

 :Welcome:  405

----------


## --->>405<<---

hey GGR  :Smilie: 

had a good back thickness/shoulder workout today.. 

rows(rest pause) + single handed rows (rest pause) - 3 rest/pause sets to failure; 2 total big work sets

seated DB press + seated DB side laterals (both rest/pause to failure); 2 total big work sets

deads: 135 x 10; 225 x 5; 315 x 5; 365 x 5; 415 x 4 (added an extra rep here).. 

shrugs: 2 work sets both rest/pause to failure

today was my first day doing rest pause and i like it. working out alone it makes it a bit easier cuz i dont need many dumbells or have to strip weight off barbells. needless to say i was spent after this workout. these few little sentences certainly dont do the taxing workout justice!  :Smilie: 

i dont think i will go much heavier on deads as there is a lot of internal pressure lifting 400+ lbs off the floor and a few months ago i was told i had a small hiatal hernia (which i think is upper digestive tract) and i notice a lot of times after lifting (especially heavy) i get heartburn and i def dont wanna make a small tear bigger! as a matter of fact i will prob stay around 365lbs from here on out until i am a bit stronger and have better technique with this lift..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well guys i have amp'd up my cardio in a way.. instead of doing so much LISS or moderate (whatever u wanna call it) i have been doing more HIIT. 

5min warm up
10-15mins HIIT
10-15mins moderate

we'll see if this does anything other than cut my cardio time in half (which would also be good)

----------


## energizer bunny

> well guys i have amp'd up my cardio in a way.. instead of doing so much LISS or moderate (whatever u wanna call it) i have been doing more HIIT. 
> 
> 5min warm up
> 10-15mins HIIT
> 10-15mins moderate
> 
> we'll see if this does anything other than cut my cardio time in half (which would also be good)


good stuff.......i cant stand LISS.......HIIT all the way.......

----------


## --->>405<<---

thx bunny  :Smilie:

----------


## energizer bunny

> thx bunny


have you seen the bodybuilding documentary, "i want to look like that guy" jeff willet changes an average joe to stage ready.........any way, my point.....he says to only do 16 mins HIIT, but to do it after every session.........works for the average joe.

----------


## --->>405<<---

hmm interesting i will see if i can find it  :Smilie:

----------


## energizer bunny

im surprised you havent seen it mate! think itl be right up your street, its very motivateing and shows how tough it is to be a bodybuilder!

----------


## energizer bunny

> hmm interesting i will see if i can find it


just google it mate, its the secon vid down..........its long...part 1 is 22 mins.

----------


## 951thompson

Have you read lyles stubborn fat solution? It's a cutting edge HIIT cardio workout, I've started doing it every Thursday morning.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> just google it mate, its the secon vid down..........its long...part 1 is 22 mins.


doing it now, looking forward to watching it  :Smilie: 




> Have you read lyles stubborn fat solution? It's a cutting edge HIIT cardio workout, I've started doing it every Thursday morning.


oh yeh read it. where do u think i got so much of my understanding about body fat and mobilization and oxidation of fat?  :Smilie: 

i use SFP 3 i think it is  :Wink:

----------


## 951thompson

> doing it now, looking forward to watching it 
> 
> oh yeh read it. where do u think i got so much of my understanding about body fat and mobilization and oxidation of fat? 
> 
> i use SFP 3 i think it is


 :Smilie:  think im following the same one, HIIT/mod/HITT? 
On Tuesdays I use my 2nd depletion workout as the HIIT, then do 20 mins mid intensity.

----------


## --->>405<<---

no for me its:
warm up
hiit
moderate
quit 
 :Smilie:

----------


## 951thompson

> no for me its:
> warm up
> hiit
> moderate
> quit


Right, im with you, niceone  :Smilie:

----------


## human project

> im surprised you havent seen it mate! think itl be right up your street, its very motivateing and shows how tough it is to be a bodybuilder!


You have a link... You have me interested

----------


## human project

> im surprised you havent seen it mate! think itl be right up your street, its very motivateing and shows how tough it is to be a bodybuilder!


I can't find the full video just trailers... You know where I can watch the full video??

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I can't find the full video just trailers... You know where I can watch the full video??


Here u go pal  :Smilie: 

http://vimeo.com/m/5795288

----------


## bethdoth

That was NOT a motivating video. The comments about you have to feel bad to look good and that being super lean is not functional??? I also noticed in his diet plan a lot of meal replacement not real foods with protein. Yes he made unbelievable progress but like his comment about Mt Everest it won't last. He made a temporary change to his lifestyle... I wonder what he looks like today or 2 years after this? Just my .02

----------


## --->>405<<---

> That was NOT a motivating video. The comments about you have to feel bad to look good and that being super lean is not functional??? I also noticed in his diet plan a lot of meal replacement not real foods with protein. Yes he made unbelievable progress but like his comment about Mt Everest it won't last. He made a temporary change to his lifestyle... I wonder what he looks like today or 2 years after this? Just my .02


yeh i thought it was interesting to watch. curious about the 16min HIIT 2x per day.. havent lookd at his diet yet. i can say when i cut to 9% it was a painful and depriving process. more deprivation and cumulative hunger than anything else. 

id be interested to see what he looks like today as well. will have to chek and see if i can find some current pic of him.

----------


## gbrice75

> no for me its:
> warm up
> hiit
> moderate
> quit


Same here.

----------


## energizer bunny

> That was NOT a motivating video. The comments about you have to feel bad to look good and that being super lean is not functional??? I also noticed in his diet plan a lot of meal replacement not real foods with protein. Yes he made unbelievable progress but like his comment about Mt Everest it won't last. He made a temporary change to his lifestyle... I wonder what he looks like today or 2 years after this? Just my .02


fair comment mate........the fact that it proves that with hard work and dedication you can go from average joe to stage fit was motivating to me...........and the comments about being functional for someone like me would hold true (now im going off his stage shape).......and i think its true, stage fit for the average joe without gear is very hard to keep........anyway glad you watched it mate.

----------


## energizer bunny

> yeh i thought it was interesting to watch. curious about the 16min HIIT 2x per day.. havent lookd at his diet yet. i can say when i cut to 9% it was a painful and depriving process. more deprivation and cumulative hunger than anything else. 
> 
> id be interested to see what he looks like today as well. will have to chek and see if i can find some current pic of him.


im sure at the end of the last vid it shows him a few months later and he had went back to average joe looking.........

----------


## --->>405<<---

making some progress with abs.. it is not a fast process! but its nice to be getting better abs while running maintenance diet averaging 21000cals per week  :Smilie:

----------


## Zodiac82

^^^^sweet....whats the time frame between pics....have u started carnitine back up again?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> ^^^^sweet....whats the time frame between pics....have u started carnitine back up again?


same day for both pics, just different lighting.. 

no on the carnitine. i doubt i will ever run it again after the heart skipping beat episodes. i dropped carnitine and peptides. i would have to say IMO both compounds are a waste of money. i did not see much benefit (if any at all).. i think it is just a racket to generate revenue in a market for people not willing to consider AAS (or in addition to).

----------


## Back In Black

Dammit man, PANTS!!!!!

 :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Dammit man, PANTS!!!!!


maybe i have em pulled down real low?  :Shrug:

----------


## austinite

> making some progress with abs.. it is not a fast process! but its nice to be getting better abs while running maintenance diet averaging 21000cals per week


Impressive 405. You're a monster! 

Must be very skilled to take a self pic like that!!

----------


## gearbox

Good looking results. Skin looks like its hardening from the last pics. 
Great job bro  :Smilie:

----------


## 951thompson

Looking good 405 (no homo)

----------


## --->>405<<---

HIIT every cardio session is not for the faint of heart or out of shape! especially i did it yesterday after a brutal leg session at noon, then did HIIT sprints at the park at 1800, then did HIIT today on the bike. wanna talk about lactic acid!

----------


## Tx89

Nice heels mate, especially the veins.
Whats your HIIT Approach? Sfp or did you come with something new, "405 style"....wouldnt surprise me ;-)

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Nice heels mate, especially the veins.
> Whats your HIIT Approach? Sfp or did you come with something new, "405 style"....wouldnt surprise me ;-)


actually right now my HIIT depends on what i am doing. its usually either the bike (which is very painful!) or sprints, or intervals on elliptical. depending on my schedule. 

it follows similar format every time though:
5min warm up
15min HIIT (30sec/60sec) basically 10 sprints
10mins moderate (how high of intensity depends what i do)

on days i do HIIT sprints at the park i do nothing after the 10th sprint except cool down of about 2mins.. im currently doing this 4days per week..

today i did the bike so after my 10th sprint i was in such pain from lactic acid i finished my 10mins moderate walking on 6 incline at 3.5 mph  :Smilie:

----------


## Tx89

Thanks big boy  :Smilie: 
My approach is pretty similar and I totally feel you on the lactic acid pain on the bikes...depending on what I did before sometimes i am barely able to push sprinting time to 30secs if I really go all out. Definitely feel HIIT training prolonging my recovery time and giving me pretty heavy legs the day after.

----------


## basketballfan22

Looking good 405. It's been wayyyyyyyyy too long since I have been here, but I have been really busy. I am still on my routine and diet though. Sadly, I have let up slightly on my diet; but I weigh 185 now. I know that is not much; but considering how hard it has been for me to gain ANYTHING more, I am pleased. Anyway, I thought I'd drop by and say "hi."

----------


## --->>405<<---

good to see you drop in basketball  :Smilie:  

keep it going dude!

----------


## --->>405<<---

I tell u what: i think im starting to enjoy HIIT only cardio! Cuts my time in half and it seems to be helping already! 

Lookn forward to abs/hiit elliptical today  :Smilie:  

LOL. Who would think that! The 2 typically most hated types of exercise ..

----------


## Tx89

I guess im too dumb for ellyptical HIIT. If i really go all out on these I often kind of lose my rhythm as I fatigue and almost fly off.
Maybe I can make it into an awkward Gym moments compilation video this way  :Big Grin:

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ 
lol..

----------


## Zodiac82

> I guess im too dumb for ellyptical HIIT. If i really go all out on these I often kind of lose my rhythm as I fatigue and almost fly off.
> Maybe I can make it into an awkward Gym moments compilation video this way


lol I know what u mean....everytime I go over like 105 rpms ill lose my timing and my knee/leg would locked and buckle lol....kinda like when ur walking down the steps and for whatever reason u think its another step there lol

----------


## Tx89

^^this!!!!!  :Big Grin:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Excellent abs/HIIT Cardio today  :Smilie: 

Theres something to be said for running maintenance and amping up cardio. GB posted a thread that touched on this subject. It seems i am appearing leaNer now by running maintenance and hitting hard cardio than when i finished cutting.

Some of this could be due to the HIIT. Im thinking it is so. HIIT cardio + HIT Style lifting = good regimen IMO

Wish i would done this sooner!

----------


## RaginCajun

> Excellent abs/HIIT Cardio today 
> 
> Theres something to be said for running maintenance and amping up cardio. GB posted a thread that touched on this subject. It seems i am appearing leaNer now by running maintenance and hitting hard cardio than when i finished cutting.
> 
> Some of this could be due to the HIIT. Im thinking it is so. HIIT cardio + HIT Style lifting = good regimen IMO
> 
> Wish i would done this sooner!


well think about it for a sec bud. you are expending more cals by doing more cardio, thus, creating a bit of a deficit!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> well think about it for a sec bud. you are expending more cals by doing more cardio, thus, creating a bit of a deficit!


Well the cool thing is im only actually doing like 2-2.5hrs cardio per week whereas before i was doing 4-5hrs per week. Some weeks as much as 6-7hrs..

----------


## RaginCajun

> Well the cool thing is im only actually doing like 2-2.5hrs cardio per week whereas before i was doing 4-5hrs per week. Some weeks as much as 6-7hrs..


fireguy posted a thread about HIIT cardio about a year and a half ago about this very topic. HIIT cardio vs LIC cardio. i cannot remember where it is posted.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> fireguy posted a thread about HIIT cardio about a year and a half ago about this very topic. HIIT cardio vs LIC cardio. i cannot remember where it is posted.


yeh.. EPOC baby  :Smilie: 

Excess post-exercise oxygen consumption - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

----------


## --->>405<<---

well not a lot going on really. 2 weeks from today and ill be waking up in miami florida to enjoy the day there before i disembark on my cruise!!  :0jackson:  :0jackson:  :0jackson: yay me! one more full week of work then a 10 day vacation.. whew, man i need it too! 

last year i gained 12-15lbs ill be interested to see how much i gain this time LOL! !!!  :LOL:

----------


## Back In Black

> well not a lot going on really. 2 weeks from today and ill be waking up in miami florida to enjoy the day there before i disembark on my cruise!! yay me! one more full week of work then a 10 day vacation.. whew, man i need it too!
> 
> last year i gained 12-15lbs ill be interested to see how much i gain this time LOL! !!!


I think you owe it to yourself to try and beat that :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I think you owe it to yourself to try and beat that


oh i am buddy dont u worry! i will be eating my freaking ass off!!! everything and anything for 11 straight days as if calories dont exist! no bull crap, i will not take any dietary factor into consideration until i pull back into my driveway! as a matter of fact i might deliberately try to stuff my face with bad shit the whole time!

----------


## Zodiac82

> well not a lot going on really. 2 weeks from today and ill be waking up in miami florida to enjoy the day there before i disembark on my cruise!! yay me! one more full week of work then a 10 day vacation.. whew, man i need it too!
> 
> last year i gained 12-15lbs ill be interested to see how much i gain this time LOL! !!!


lol I thought I was the only one that put that much back on when on vacay

----------


## --->>405<<---

> lol I thought I was the only one that put that much back on when on vacay


nope! i will say this: i think i have actually changed the way my body partitions nutrients, as since i have transitioned into maintenance and kept fasting 4 days per week and switched lifting and cardio styles to HIT/HIIT respectively it seems as though i can eat whatever i want (within reason) and not really count any cals or macros and not gain any fat but to the contrary actually drop a little and gain some LBM! (now i would like to note here i do still pre plan my diet with cals and macros and then calculate it semi daily in my head but it is more of a lax rough estimate approach as i have gained good familiarity with my food and eat roughly the same things every day)

its awesome man! my confidence in eating has really gone up, and this might require some explanation: 
i dont know if yall are like me (im sure most of you are  :Wink: ) but every freaking time i eat something even close to out of my diet or questionable i over think it and analyze and check the mirror and all that crap all the dang time! LOL.. 

but now i have eaten this way long enuff i have gained more confidence in my ability to deviate from the norm without having to stress the f'ck out over whether im gonna get fat! its almost like i am kind of free from all that damn thinking and this has developed over the last 2 months! a very very very good feeling! i owe it all to this new approach to dieting. 

Fasting (20-24hrs EOD minimum)
carbs only on training days
HIT weight training
HIIT cardio

this has been my key.. it only took 18 months to figure it out! LOL..

----------


## --->>405<<---

> i owe it all to this new approach to dieting.
> 
> Fasting (20-24hrs EOD minimum)
> carbs only on training days
> HIT weight training
> HIIT cardio
> 
> this has been my key.. it only took 18 months to figure it out! LOL..


^^^ i would like to say i highly recommend this style of dieting and working out to everyone to try, especially u guys who have a tendency (like me) to get fat if ur not careful.

----------


## Zodiac82

lol I have a tendency to overthink a lot of things....it get very annoying as I have a lil ocd tendencies too....but the moment I eat something out of the ordinary(not including cheat days) im IMMEDIATELY tryin to figure out how to "counter" it lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well wat better to do at 0300 when laying in bed unable to go back to sleep than bump my thread back from page 3 !!?  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well im back from vacation. 

pre vacation weight: 195lbs

post vacation weight: 205lbs 

duration: 10 days 

success!  :Smilie:  now time to get back into the saddle, but i must admit it is a tuff transition and due to the fact that i have no food at home yet i have said screw it today and am eating whatever i feel like LOL.. just finished bacon, eggs, cheese, grits all in a big cup!  :Smilie:

----------


## energizer bunny

welcome back mate.....was wondering were you had been......glad you had a good holiday mate.

----------


## Zodiac82

> well im back from vacation.
> 
> pre vacation weight: 195lbs
> 
> post vacation weight: 205lbs
> 
> duration: 10 days
> 
> success!  now time to get back into the saddle, but i must admit it is a tuff transition and due to the fact that i have no food at home yet i have said screw it today and am eating whatever i feel like LOL.. just finished bacon, eggs, cheese, grits all in a big cup!


welcome back....10 lbs....not too bad....I would say thats about avg....of course most being water weight

-Release the Kracken!!!-

----------


## --->>405<<---

> welcome back mate.....was wondering were you had been......glad you had a good holiday mate.


thx man  :Smilie:

----------


## slfmade

Welcome back. Did you have a good time?

----------


## basketballfan22

Welcome back 405. I hope (and I am sure you did) had a great time.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Welcome back. Did you have a good time?





> Welcome back 405. I hope (and I am sure you did) had a great time.


thx guys and yes!!! it was awesome!  :Smilie:  ill have some pics here soon ill post a few..

----------


## Bodacious

> thx guys and yes!!! it was awesome!  ill have some piWecs here soon ill post a few..


Welcome back man. Glad ya had a good time. 10 lbs not bad at all on a cruise. I go on mine in 12 days can not wait. 

Can not wait to check out some of your pics also. I love cruises. Wish I could afford to take one a year lol. 

I hope I only gain 10 lbs. Did u work out or run any at all???

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ i lifted my 3 day split.. Zero cardio.. Wats the point? If im eatn 7500-10000 cals what difference was 500gonna make?? And for all that work and wasted time screw that!! Lol..

----------


## --->>405<<---

whew! first day back since the cruise in the gym.. finally! 

chest/lats

felt good to hit it hard. i had plenty of carbs/glycogen in me thats for sure.. 

weighed in at the gym at 210lbs up from 195 2 weeks ago LOL... itll be time to cut this fat i gained off here soon.. im not extremely in a hurry to transition into a deficit to be honest... 14 days of balls to the wall eating plus no cardio has been nice. it is nice to be able to gain 15 lbs of probably mostly fat and still look pretty dang good! can still see some abs.. look very full thats for sure. look bigger i suppose and draw some attention when i lift. of course it seems i draw attention no matter where i go or what im wearing. will probably wait until next monday to really start cutting this fat.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well here it is monday! Back on the diet with some fat to lose  :Smilie:  im actually looking forward to t as eating all this junk for 19 days got to be work!! Believe it or not.. 

Wats funny is my bf% cant be more than 15% yet i weigh 2lbs more than when i started my original cut in 2011 at 26.6% 

Man do i look different at this same weight. When i get to a puter ill post a pic  :Smilie:

----------


## austinite

> Well here it is monday! Back on the diet with some fat to lose  im actually looking forward to t as eating all this junk for 19 days got to be work!! Believe it or not.. 
> 
> Wats funny is my bf% cant be more than 15% yet i weigh 2lbs more than when i started my original cut in 2011 at 26.6% 
> 
> Man do i look different at this same weight. When i get to a puter ill post a pic


welcome back big guy.

----------


## Zodiac82

> Well here it is monday! Back on the diet with some fat to lose  im actually looking forward to t as eating all this junk for 19 days got to be work!! Believe it or not..
> 
> Wats funny is my bf% cant be more than 15% yet i weigh 2lbs more than when i started my original cut in 2011 at 26.6%
> 
> Man do i look different at this same weight. When i get to a puter ill post a pic


time to get at it

-Release the Kracken!!!-

----------


## --->>405<<---

Thx dudes!!

Lunch: legs!!!

----------


## RaginCajun

> Well here it is monday! Back on the diet with some fat to lose  im actually looking forward to t as eating all this junk for 19 days got to be work!! Believe it or not.. 
> 
> Wats funny is my bf% cant be more than 15% yet i weigh 2lbs more than when i started my original cut in 2011 at 26.6% 
> 
> Man do i look different at this same weight. When i get to a puter ill post a pic


glad to see you are back at it and that carnvial had a one good boat left!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> glad to see you are back at it and that *carnvial* had a one good boat left!


I dont sail carnival (turns my nose up)... But thx anyways !!  :Wink:

----------


## gearbox

Glad your back and that was some serious fat gain  :Smilie: 
Enjoy the IF. I may give it a go one day.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well first week of dieting went pretty good. i have not been doing a lot of cardio and could use to increase it but dont know if i will because im feeling particularly lazy at the moment with regards to diet and cardio.. im doing it 2 out of every 3 days but in the past i was hitting it 2 x per day so by lazy i mean im only doing it once. 

yesterday shouldve been a training day but i was lazy and didnt leave the house, but i did eat my training day diet (somewhat).. i wont train aGAIN now until wednesday.. seem to have dropped some fat this week. 

id like to say after my first week back on the diet and all that my weight comes out at 204lbs, so not as much of a gain as i had previously thought, but i did know a fair amount would come off after that first diet week due to water and stuff.. 

my starting weight was like 195-197lbs so im only 7-9lbs heavier than pre vacay  :Smilie:

----------


## energizer bunny

> well first week of dieting went pretty good. i have not been doing a lot of cardio and could use to increase it but dont know if i will because im feeling particularly lazy at the moment with regards to diet and cardio.. im doing it 2 out of every 3 days but in the past i was hitting  it 2 x per day so by lazy i mean im only doing it once. 
> 
> yesterday shouldve been a training day but i was lazy and didnt leave the house, but i did eat my training day diet (somewhat).. i wont train aGAIN now until wednesday.. seem to have dropped some fat this week. 
> 
> id like to say after my first week back on the diet and all that my weight comes out at 204lbs, so not as much of a gain as i had previously thought, but i did know a fair amount would come off after that first diet week due to water and stuff.. 
> 
> my starting weight was like 195-197lbs so im only 7-9lbs heavier than pre vacay


the first week back after a holiday is always "lazy" for me also.......good to know your weight didn't go up to much mate........whats your next goal? more size? get leaner? train for an iron man contest? lol

----------


## Brazensol

Could cardio 2xday actually work against you by cutting into your lean mass?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> the first week back after a holiday is always "lazy" for me also.......good to know your weight didn't go up to much mate........whats your next goal? more size? get leaner? train for an iron man contest? lol


LOL.. not sure, lean back out then prob cycle..  :Smilie: 



> Could cardio 2xday actually work against you by cutting into your lean mass?


it could, but has not proven to do so too much with me. before losing fat was a major priority in an expedient fashion so it was worth the risk, this time im not in such a hurry .. im also eating more now too though..

----------


## energizer bunny

> LOL.. not sure, lean back out then prob cycle..


cycle......sounds interesting, what are you planning on using? with your dedication to diet, you will most certainly get huge!

----------


## --->>405<<---

test only.. maybe 4-6 weeks var at the end, but most likely test only  :Smilie:

----------


## bethdoth

I have been on 2 vacations in the past 2 months ... 7 days in Jamaica and 7 days in the mountains of Tennessee dragging knees. I managed to workout pretty hard during both vacations to offset the heavy drinking and moderate eating. I gained 7 pound in Jamaica and took it off in 2 weeks then only gained 2 pounds in TN. Just got home Friday.

I am going to have to go hardcore for the next month to achieve my goal. I am back to documenting everything I eat and am considering hiring one of the trainers at the gym. She is attractive and might help me dig deep into myself for motivation  :Smilie:  !!!

----------


## Brazensol

> I have been on 2 vacations in the past 2 months ... 7 days in Jamaica and 7 days in the mountains of Tennessee dragging knees. I managed to workout pretty hard during both vacations to offset the heavy drinking and moderate eating. I gained 7 pound in Jamaica and took it off in 2 weeks then only gained 2 pounds in TN. Just got home Friday.
> 
> I am going to have to go hardcore for the next month to achieve my goal. I am back to documenting everything I eat and am considering hiring one of the trainers at the gym. She is attractive and might help me dig deep into myself for motivation  !!!


Is that you in your avatar? That's just about the exact look I'm working for!

----------


## Brazensol

> LOL.. not sure, lean back out then prob cycle.. 
> 
> it could, but has not proven to do so too much with me. before losing fat was a major priority in an expedient fashion so it was worth the risk, this time im not in such a hurry .. im also eating more now too though..


I've been thinking of 2x a day on non lifting days but not sure how it'll work for me. So far I have been able to increase my lean but would sure like to lose fat quicker. I'll know better at the end of the month when I go to the bod pod and see how things are shaking out.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well this is my first week back on 100%compliance with the diet as well as incorporating 2x per day cardio and i have revised my training schedule to getting upper/lower done in 2 workouts instead of a 3 day split. today was the first training day with this revision and maintaining HIT style training while working chest, lats, shoulders, deadlifts was freaking brutal and i was totally spent PWO.. ill have to include traps on lower days and i wqas too spent to do any ab work. i may end up adjusting back to regular training (non-HIT) until i have achieved my desired bf% as i dont know with the caloric deficit if ill be able to maintain it for 8 weeks.. (or however long it takes). 

i am already shedding body fat and the abs are coming back in so thats good  :Smilie:  looking pretty beastly fat or no fat! its funny i am not a bad looking fat guy now!  :LOL:

----------


## krugerr

Still waiting for that pic buddy!  :Wink: 

Glad you had a good holiday, the Mrs wants me to book a cruise for our holiday this year. I've only done one before and I ate so much damn food!!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

Cruising is for eating.....no way around it.......

----------


## Back In Black

And your cycle starts...........?

----------


## --->>405<<---

when i get to 9% (BOD POD) unless i think i can go further!  :Wink:  gonna try to use this cut as a sort of prime as well. basically the same concept i gather is it not? go strait from a hard cut to a bulk cycle??

----------


## Back In Black

> when i get to 9% (BOD POD) unless i think i can go further!  gonna try to use this cut as a sort of prime as well. basically the same concept i gather is it not? go strait from a hard cut to a bulk cycle??


Hard cut? Maybe. I didn't, I did 3 days with 30% less carbs than I was having then on the 4th day 10% more. TBH i think you'd be pleasantly surprised at how you would gain LBM and lose fat on a cycle. Or turn fat into muscle or whatever miracle it is you do :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Hard cut? Maybe. I didn't, I did 3 days with 30% less carbs than I was having then on the 4th day 10% more. TBH i think you'd be pleasantly surprised at how you would gain LBM and lose fat on a cycle. Or turn fat into muscle or whatever miracle it is you do


LOL.. yeh, well im probably 13-14%bf right now. i want to have that 5% to play with where i dont end up getting fatter than i am now 4weeks in and have to choose between reducing my cals and the aggressiveness of my bulk or get fatter!  :Smilie: 

i dont like being fat man!

----------


## Zodiac82

> Hard cut? Maybe. I didn't, I did 3 days with 30% less carbs than I was having then on the 4th day 10% more. TBH i think you'd be pleasantly surprised at how you would gain LBM and lose fat on a cycle. Or turn fat into muscle or whatever miracle it is you do


x2 on the leaning out on cycle....abs came in beautifully when I was on

-Release the Kracken!!!-

----------


## hingey242

do you have a before and after shot?>

----------


## --->>405<<---

> x2 on the leaning out on cycle....abs came in beautifully when I was on
> 
> -Release the Kracken!!!-


interesting.. well i certainly hope this is the case.. maybe 4-5 weeks of var at the end will assist.. i suppose ill leave that for next year though.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well down to 202-203 lbs today.. so im losing the fat  :Smilie:  prob around 11-12% right now. had a weird hypoglycemic moment yesterday. i fast 2 days in a row and dont eat until 1900 or so and yesterday around 1700 started feeling a bit "funny" and shaky and came home and had to eat a couple handfuls cereal, oats, and some milk.. then did my cardio. this has happened before but not very often, sometimes i just push thru it as the symptoms are not usually very strong. hopefully this is just an every so often thing ..

----------


## kelkel

> well down to 202-203 lbs today.. so im losing the fat  prob around 11-12% right now. had a weird hypoglycemic moment yesterday. i fast 2 days in a row and dont eat until 1900 or so and yesterday around 1700 started feeling a bit "funny" and shaky and came home and had to eat a couple handfuls cereal, oats, and some milk.. then did my cardio. this has happened before but not very often, sometimes i just push thru it as the symptoms are not usually very strong. hopefully this is just an every so often thing ..


It's your body saying "WTF" are you doing to me?

----------


## Back In Black

> It's your body saying "WTF" are you doing to me?


Ha ha

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L7SkrYF8lCU

----------


## --->>405<<---

i never liked that movie!  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i thought id post in my thread today and thought it woulda been on page 2 by now.. i found it at the very bottom of page 1. the last thread hanging on for dear life!

excellent PWO meal today:
1 pound beef
1 whole onion 
3/4 cup (dry) brn rice
all in a big bowl eaten with a big spoon

100g pro
100g carbs
20g fat.. 

a very satisfying meal!

----------


## bikeral

Looking good. I usually add some red pepper instead of onions.

----------


## RaginCajun

Bump for Damien05

----------


## --->>405<<---

i was just thinking i needed a bump thx! will be cutting monday..  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Bit of carnage in Le Tour today mate.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Bit of carnage in Le Tour today mate.


so i heard until i told him to be quiet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i had to work.. starting it now..  :Smilie:

----------


## RaginCajun

> Bit of carnage in Le Tour today mate.


Damn, I didn't watch it today!

----------


## Back In Black

Bahahaha, I'd better not give out any spoilers for the next few weeks then :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well my official cutting has begun: again! 

Got ghrp-2 and mod grf and injectable L carnitine so im motivated. Been tuff since my holiday! 

Going to bod pod today. Betting 15%+ bf.. 

Will post current stats after i get bf% chekd. Hoping i can get to 10%bf by sept 1.. We'll see.. Did 50min cardio this am. Have one more 40min session to do today. Will line out everything later to keep myself accountable. Wanna cycle in september (ish) but wont unless im sub 10%bf..

----------


## energizer bunny

good luck mate!.......looking forward to see your progress..

----------


## Zodiac82

back at it again....nice

I thought u werent gonna do the carnitine anymore?

-Beast Mode-

----------


## Back In Black

Cutting? You? Really?  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> back at it again....nice
> 
> I thought u werent gonna do the carnitine anymore?
> 
> -Beast Mode-


yeh well im gonna try it and see what happens..  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> meal1: oatmeal pancakes 
> 
> meal2: 1 1/2 sandwich with whole wheat bread, smoked ham, light mayo (10g fat worth) 
> 
> meal3: honey bunches of oats and multigrain cheerios, 1 banana, 1 cup skim milk
> 
> meals 1-3 = 1607cals, 104g pro, 241g carbs, 25g fat
> 
> LIFT (5g Leucine intra-workout)
> ...


for my own mental note..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Peptide dose 1 done.. Carnitine in am.. Should hurt like hell  :Smilie:

----------


## Zodiac82

are u doin two doses of carnitine a day?

-Beast Mode-

----------


## --->>405<<---

> are u doin two doses of carnitine a day?
> 
> -Beast Mode-


no, just 12mL for the first week split into several shots to get full saturation, then 6mL per week for maintenance.. after what u said yesterday i decided to run the peptides first for a week or 2 and then add in the carnitine... the heart beat skipping thing is def not something i want a recurrence of...

----------


## --->>405<<---

its funny right now i weigh 2lbs more (215lbs) than when i started my original cut back in 2011 (213lbs) and im not even close to as fat.. for example back then 38" waist were tight on me and im wearing 33's right now..  :Smilie: 

gonna try to do bod pod manana..

----------


## Zodiac82

> Peptide dose 1 done.. Carnitine in am.. Should hurt like hell


ohhhh lol....I misinterpreted this statement....I thought u meant u took the carnitine in the am....not taking it in the am....thats why I asked about the two doses lookin at meals 1 and 3

-Beast Mode-

----------


## --->>405<<---

> ohhhh lol....I misinterpreted this statement....I thought u meant u took the carnitine in the am....not taking it in the am....thats why I asked about the two doses lookin at meals 1 and 3
> 
> -Beast Mode-


since im on EOD dietary protocol i will likely take carnitine in the pm of fasting days and the am of training days as i have to take with carbs (as u know) and since on fasting days i dont eat til night and dont eat carbs i will have to eat 75g carbs that night to get carnitiine past blood brain barrier.. then the next day i only eat carbs in the am so ill have to take it then too.. itll just be for the loading phase (one week)..  :Smilie:

----------


## RaginCajun

didn't think you were going to get back on peptides since the heart thing? guess you changed your mind!

are you taking any stimulants or appetite suppressants during your fast?

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ im stubborn (and stupid i guess  :Smilie:  ) i think it was the carnitine but the irony is carnitine is supposed to be good for ur heart and treat irregular heart beats. It is this association which caused me to think thats wat it was.. ?? I could be wrong. 

No stims no suppressants..

----------


## RaginCajun

> ^^ im stubborn (and stupid i guess  ) i think it was the carnitine but the irony is carnitine is supposed to be good for ur heart and treat irregular heart beats. It is this association which caused me to think thats wat it was.. ?? I could be wrong. 
> 
> No stims no suppressants..


gotcha and I am not one to talk!!! hahaha

I may need to try this L-carnitine.

----------


## Zodiac82

> since im on EOD dietary protocol i will likely take carnitine in the pm of fasting days and the am of training days as i have to take with carbs (as u know) and since on fasting days i dont eat til night and dont eat carbs i will have to eat 75g carbs that night to get carnitiine past blood brain barrier.. then the next day i only eat carbs in the am so ill have to take it then too.. itll just be for the loading phase (one week)..


gotcha  :Smilie: 

-Beast Mode-

----------


## Rusty11

> well down to 202-203 lbs today.. so im losing the fat  prob around 11-12% right now. had a weird hypoglycemic moment yesterday. i fast 2 days in a row and dont eat until 1900 or so and yesterday around 1700 started feeling a bit "funny" and shaky and came home and had to eat a couple handfuls cereal, oats, and some milk.. then did my cardio. this has happened before but not very often, sometimes i just push thru it as the symptoms are not usually very strong. hopefully this is just an every so often thing ..


Yea, quickly going hypoglycemic scares the hell outta me. A few times, I thought I was going to die...until I ate a half box of girl scout cookies. Then I get sick to my stomach and lose all energy for an hour, or so. Hopefully for you, this was a freak occurance and won't happen again.
Btw, damn you. You look great in your new avi!
*thinks to self* What the hell am I doing wrong? Fawk. :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ thx pal  :Smilie: 

My avi is me around 9%bf .. Im NOT there now!!  :Smilie:  

Actually at bod pod right now, will post results soon.. Betting 15%+

----------


## --->>405<<---

214lbs 
17.8%bf
176.2lbs LBM

Gonna take at least 12 weeks, probably 16  :Frown: 

Well at least i know!

----------


## Back In Black

Oh my, you fat bastard :Wink:  are you back to looking like this?



So, you were about correct at 15% (visible) then. Isn't it good when you know your own body :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Lmao!! Yes! It is good to know my body yea.. On way to do cardio.. I def need it!

----------


## RaginCajun

> 214lbs 
> 17.8%bf
> 176.2lbs LBM
> 
> Gonna take at least 12 weeks, probably 16 
> 
> Well at least i know!


will your plan look the same as the last one?

EOD fasting still I assume

----------


## --->>405<<---

> will your plan look the same as the last one?
> 
> EOD fasting still I assume


That is correct sir..  :Smilie:

----------


## gearbox

Good luck buddy. Awesome avi

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^thx gear  :Smilie: 

well day 4 week one of my cut and i cant do anything cuz its a dang holiday and the gym is closed!! i have weights at home but dont feel like lifting here.. LOL.. guess ill start back tomorrow.. sticking to diet today just the training session will be missed. 

also began final season dexter today.. its gonna be good! i should be pretty lean by the finale 12 weeks from now.  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Outdoor cardio? Bedroom gymnastics?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Outdoor cardio? Bedroom gymnastics?


Lol.. Did the most important of the 2 mentioned already..  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

60min cardio + abs dun. 30min to go later. 

Being fat is easier..  :Smilie:  <<--- edit: being fat is easier physically, NOT MENTALLY!

----------


## Zodiac82

> Being fat is easier..  <<--- edit: being fat is easier physically, NOT MENTALLY!


yep...almost went to get some fast food because I didnt feel like cooking....then after a few mins of mind ripping decision making I decided to cook chicken eggs and penne  :Smilie: 

-Beast Mode-

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok the final part to my initial start of this cut the dreaded pics LOL.. i like to keep it real.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHRLloH5LE4

so new stats:

38yrs old 5'9"
215lbs 17.8%bf

----------


## Back In Black

Looking mighty powerful but mighty bloated too buddy :Wink: 

Give it 2 weeks of clean diet and you'll see a difference :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Looking mighty powerful but mighty bloated too buddy
> 
> Give it 2 weeks of clean diet and you'll see a difference


LOL.. yeh i took that pic yesterday which was a carb day. i eat 350-400g carbs in about 4-5 hrs window pre workout LOL.. here is a full body pic since i forgot to include it yesterday.. also my original pic where i weigh 213lbs (2lbs less than i do now).. man am i glad i dont look like that anymore! i have not eaten extremely poorly for the entire 2 months but i have probably eaten whatever i want in the quantity i waNT FOR the last 2 months at least half the time.. actually not too bad considering all that ive eaten and really done no cardio to speak of.. 

this seems to be a pattern for me: cut pretty lean and then go off diet and get fat.. repeat.. 

this time i plan to cycle and switch to a good bulking diet. i realize i cant eat whatever i want if i expect to stay lean but i do think i cant gain the kind of muscle i want to gain in any short amount of time without running a cycle. i think any muscle gain for me will require a substantial amount of fat to be gained too. hopefully this cycle will prove different.. 

depending on the results of it will determine what i do in the future.

----------


## --->>405<<---

time for my 60min cardio session!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Good lower workout. 

5mins cardio + progressive loading warm up sets

Box Squat (parallel):
405 x 5, 365 x 5, 315 x 8 (triple drop set)
405 x 5, 365 x 5, 315 x 5.. dun.. 

Leg extension , leg curl, (triple drop sets x 2 of each) a little abs.. Done..  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Oh yeh i weighed 209.8 yesterday am (thats 5lbs drop week 1.. Prob 2lbs fat, 3lbs water)  :Smilie:

----------


## RaginCajun

> Good lower workout. 
> 
> 5mins cardio + progressive loading warm up sets
> 
> Box Squat (parallel):
> 405 x 5, 365 x 5, 315 x 8 (triple drop set)
> 405 x 5, 365 x 5, 315 x 5.. dun.. 
> 
> Leg extension , leg curl, (triple drop sets x 2 of each) a little abs.. Done..


nice workout bub!

----------


## --->>405<<---

0430 60min fasted cardio dun.. Whew!! Not fun..  :Smilie: 

Feel freaking awesome now though!!

----------


## Back In Black

> 0430 60min fasted cardio dun.. Whew!! Not fun.. 
> 
> Feel freaking awesome now though!!


It's a bitch when it's not habit isn't it?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> It's a bitch when it's not habit isn't it?


Yeh.. Esp since before last week it had been at least 5months since i did 60mins cardio at one time.. I am a bit out of cardiovascular shape.. Not terrible, but it was uncomfortable after about 30mins..  :Smilie: 

In part could be due to legs yesterday ..

----------


## --->>405<<---

upper day done.. well i cant eat 400g carbs between 0700 and 1000 .. only room for 3 meals so itll be closer to 330g.. prob not a bad thing, but i like to start high and leave plenty of room for down the road to make revisions as i lean out.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well did 30mins fasted cardio #1 this am.. lunch: 60mins fastd cardio #2..

already seeing the fat come off in the mirror (which of course i like  :Smilie:  )

had a buddy of mine try to talk me into going for pizza for lunch.. yeh like thats gonna happen! LOL.. way too early in the game for shenanigans like that..

----------


## RaginCajun

> well did 30mins fasted cardio #1 this am.. lunch: 60mins fastd cardio #2..
> 
> already seeing the fat come off in the mirror (which of course i like  )
> 
> had a buddy of mine try to talk me into going for pizza for lunch.. yeh like thats gonna happen! LOL.. way too early in the game for shenanigans like that..


Haha, I love pizza!

Damn, already seeing it! Not just water?

----------


## austinite

> well did 30mins fasted cardio #1 this am.. lunch: 60mins fastd cardio #2..
> 
> already seeing the fat come off in the mirror (which of course i like  )
> 
> had a buddy of mine try to talk me into going for pizza for lunch.. yeh like thats gonna happen! LOL.. way too early in the game for shenanigans like that..


Oh no!! Haven't you heard?? Fasted cardio is a waste of time!!

----------


## Back In Black

> Oh no!! Haven't you heard?? Fasted cardio is a waste of time!!


This is true.

But 405 can turn fat to muscle so doesn't really need to do any cardio :Wink:

----------


## austinite

> This is true.
> 
> But 405 can turn fat to muscle so doesn't really need to do any cardio


Good observation. Totally forgot about that.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> This is true.
> 
> But 405 can turn fat to muscle so doesn't really need to do any cardio





> Good observation. Totally forgot about that.


and dont u forget it!! 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...LkiRQDk38#t=2s

----------


## Back In Black

www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUOe_hLg7Bo

----------


## --->>405<<---

> WGHP-TV 8.2 High Point NC- The Benny Hill Show Closing Chase Scene - YouTube


LOL.. thats hilarious u recognized the music  :LOL:   :LOL:   :LOL:   :LOL:   :LOL:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well its official: i can not eat 400g + carbs and 150g protein in 3.5 hrs.. 

i am going to have to simply eat 3 carb meals instead of 4.. i was hoping to keep carbs high in the beginning (450g EOD) so id have more room in the diet to adjust as time goes on but i just cant fit that much damn food in my stomach in a 3.5 hr period! 

im sitting here tight as a tick trying to find a position thats comfortable with half my 4th meal uneaten.. 

so far today:
meal1: (0650) 3 servings peanut butter capn crunch, 1/2cup oats, 8oz milk

meal2: (0800) 2whole eggs, 1cup egg whites, 1 cup oats, 1 banana

meal3: (0900) 2 ham sandwiches (with onion) on wheat bread 

meal4: (1020) casserole (which is very good BTW) with chicken, corn, black beans, brn rice, tomatoes, mexican spices, hot sauce.. very tasty! 

total cals: 2240 (give or take)
140g pro
300g carbs
50g fat

this is really more than i can comfortably eat. i may drop off the 4th meal which ended up being half a meal..

----------


## --->>405<<---

what will happen though (this always does  :Wink: ) is tomorrow i fast until 1800 and due to the deprivation when i go to sleep ill fantasize and convince myself i can eat 4 complete meals on sunday and the vicious cycle will repeat itself once more!  :Evil2:

----------


## bazzaman

Wow! Man all I can say is began reading the first 10 pages of this and jumped to the last 5 pages of entries you have done and the replies you have gotten. Great job! I am very inspired by your story and how you have progressed over the time you have. I look forward to continuing to follow you! Keep killing it.

----------


## Zodiac82

damn that last meal does sound good...Assumin by the first meal you've started L-C ???

-Beast Mode-

----------


## --->>405<<---

> damn that last meal does sound good...Assumin by the first meal you've started L-C ???
> 
> -Beast Mode-


1. Ill post the recipe it is good and excellent sources of everything and great ratios..

2. Smart fella!  :Wink:

----------


## Zodiac82

> 1. Ill post the recipe it is good and excellent sources of everything and great ratios..
> 
> 2. Smart fella!


lol....cool....would u mind posting here that its been posted there?

-Beast Mode-

----------


## --->>405<<---

oh the recipe?? yeh.. i planned on posting it here not the recipe section assuming thats what ur talking about. 

id also like to note for a guy with 17%bf i was looking pretty damn good in the mirror at the gym.. i can see abs in the mirror still and look pretty strong.. 

did deep box squats today.. those things will get the blood pumping let me tell you!

----------


## Zodiac82

> oh the recipe?? yeh.. i planned on posting it here not the recipe section assuming thats what ur talking about.
> 
> id also like to note for a guy with 17%bf i was looking pretty damn good in the mirror at the gym.. i can see abs in the mirror still and look pretty strong..
> 
> did deep box squats today.. those things will get the blood pumping let me tell you!


lol yes thats what I was referring to..

to be honest the pic u posted didnt look bad at all...just looked like u were carrying water

-Beast Mode-

----------


## --->>405<<---

> lol yes thats what I was referring to..
> 
> to be honest the pic u posted didnt look bad at all...just looked like u were carrying water
> 
> -Beast Mode-


thx man  :Smilie:  

well i have some fat too but it wont be here long.. its already going away. i think where i am at currently would be very easy to maintain and its where my body "likes" to be without too much effort in the way of diet and cardio. 

i prefer to be very lean though. 10%bf.. i like vascularity (which has gone a way a god bit but coming back)..

----------


## slfmade

So it's been a while since I've looked at your log. You've come a long way since 2011. 

I'm starting a cut here in about 2 weeks. Was planning on running my tried and true carb cycle/I.F. combo, but was also thinking about trying something new. Perhaps a CKD or maybe something completely new. I've read the last few pages of your log and you seem to be doing something completely different.

Do you happen to know what page you start outlining your diet with an explanation on how it works? I would love to take a look at it.

Thanks

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^i dont but i can answer questions if u have them  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

not much to report.. having some complications which are making me have to improvise.. i will continue to get it done..

----------


## RaginCajun

its not easy as we all know!

complications you say?

----------


## Rusty11

I don't know how I missed your current pics. Man, you've come a long way. Your legs are tree stumps. Nice. Sometimes, I wish I wasn't 6'2"-what a cop out excuse. Lol. Anyway, let me see if I'm following this. You're doing 60+ mins of fasted cardio 3x per week, lifting 3-4x per week, loading up on carbs on lifting days, fasting(?????) EOD??

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I don't know how I missed your current pics. Man, you've come a long way. Your legs are tree stumps. Nice. Sometimes, I wish I wasn't 6'2"-what a cop out excuse. Lol. Anyway, let me see if I'm following this. You're doing 60+ mins of fasted cardio 3x per week, lifting 3-4x per week, loading up on carbs on lifting days, fasting(?????) EOD??


thx man  :Smilie: 

cardio 90mins EOD (2 sessions, 1 x 60min, 1 x 30min)
training EOD (upper/lower split)
fasting EOD (20hrs)
carb loading pre workout EOD (300-400g)

often i wish i were 6'2"  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

good lower body workout. hit a best drop set and im cutting  :Smilie: 

squat: (box, parallel, NO SPOT)
455 x 4, drop set 405 x 5, drop set 365 x 8

pretty happy with that.. probably couldve gotten 455 x 5 but i was the only guy in the gym so..  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

If you were the only guy in the gym you probably did 20 reps, right :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> If you were the only guy in the gym you probably did 20 reps, right


uh..... yeh! thats right 20 i meant 20.. what did i say 4?? that was a typo..!!

----------


## krugerr

> uh..... yeh! thats right 20 i meant 20.. what did i say 4?? that was a typo..!!


455 is very impressive though mate! 440 (200kg) is my next goal!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 455 is very impressive though mate! 440 (200kg) is my next goal!


thx man.. ive done 505 (i think it was) on a smith x 5 reps but never as a free weight box squat.. i def think i can do 495 but not without a spotter!  :Smilie:

----------


## RaginCajun

> thx man.. ive done 505 (i think it was) on a smith x 5 reps but never as a free weight box squat.. i def think i can do 495 but not without a spotter!


That's some heavy weight!

Wish I could go heavy but my back and knees won't allow me to. 

If you think you can, then you can, no doubt!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> That's some heavy weight!
> 
> Wish I could go heavy but my back and knees won't allow me to. 
> 
> If you think you can, then you can, no doubt!


with squats ive learned something valuable:
do BOX SQUATS!!! 

i cant emphasize this enuff! i used to think i was doing squats correctly and going all the way down until i started doing these bad boys..i went from 405 to 315 and my ego went with it! i currently use 2 different benches to squat with. one of em puts me at parallel and the other puts me past parallel (below parallel), i train mostly with the one that goes past parallel. at one point i even went as low as 225 to get my balance and form correct. i have worked my way back up to 405 x 1 on the past parallel squat which = 455 x 4 at parallel.. 

needless to say it has enabled me to increase my strength in this exercise.. when i went from the one that goes past parallel to the one that is parallel you wouldnt believe the difference in 2 inches! 

i will always use this method..

----------


## RaginCajun

> with squats ive learned something valuable:
> do BOX SQUATS!!! 
> 
> i cant emphasize this enuff! i used to think i was doing squats correctly and going all the way down until i started doing these bad boys..i went from 405 to 315 and my ego went with it! i currently use 2 different benches to squat with. one of em puts me at parallel and the other puts me past parallel (below parallel), i train mostly with the one that goes past parallel. at one point i even went as low as 225 to get my balance and form correct. i have worked my way back up to 405 x 1 on the past parallel squat which = 455 x 4 at parallel.. 
> 
> needless to say it has enabled me to increase my strength in this exercise.. when i went from the one that goes past parallel to the one that is parallel you wouldnt believe the difference in 2 inches! 
> 
> i will always use this method..


I powerlifted in college for LSU so technique is ingrained in me!

yes, box squats are the tits!

squats are my fav thing to do in the gym!

----------


## Brazensol

Excellent! And just when I was kind of proud of my 420 x 5 on the leg press.... Oh well, that's what I get for not working legs. I hope to get my squats into the mid 300's someday but don't think 400's are likely. Very impressive.

----------


## krugerr

I may try incorporating box squats on my lighter days to see how they are. I usually have someone watch my form on squats, being 6'4" means its a long way down and back up, so without someone watching I would probably not go as deep as I should. 

Very impressed though 405, specially for your weight! Do you deadlift or do any Olympic lifting too?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Excellent! And just when I was kind of proud of my 420 x 5 on the leg press.... Oh well, *that's what I get for not working legs*. I hope to get my squats into the mid 300's someday but don't think 400's are likely. Very impressive.


uh oh... u better get cracking! seems to me working legs should be a requirement to maintain membership in good standing after having been a member here for 90days!  :Wink: 




> I may try incorporating box squats on my lighter days to see how they are. I usually have someone watch my form on squats, being 6'4" means its a long way down and back up, so without someone watching I would probably not go as deep as I should. 
> 
> Very impressed though 405, specially for your weight! Do you deadlift or do any Olympic lifting too?


do it man they will help a ton! u may go down in weight but it will only be temporary, u will actually be getting stronger even though ur lifting less weight and feel weaker! 

and no i dont do any olympic lifting.. i do deadlift but it is an exercise i seem to be not great at considering the most ive done is 415lbs x 5 (which i did tuesday).. before that it was 415 x 3.. seems this week is a PR week for me.. odd how that happens on a cut!  :Smilie:

----------


## krugerr

> do it man they will help a ton! u may go down in weight but it will only be temporary, u will actually be getting stronger even though ur lifting less weight and feel weaker!
> 
> and no i dont do any olympic lifting.. i do deadlift but it is an exercise i seem to be not great at considering the most ive done is 415lbs x 5 (which i did tuesday).. before that it was 415 x 3.. seems this week is a PR week for me.. odd how that happens on a cut!


Ill definitely include them for a few workouts. I got a PB on my racklifts on Wednesday, I got 200kg for 10 easy reps, having previously only got it for 5-6. I'm also cutting, although I've recently introduced a few more carbs to try get a bit more intensity in workouts. I was feeling a little lack-luster. 
~185kg for 5 reps though mate, that's a pretty impressive lift too! Have you got an end goal for your cutting? Or you just running with it until you're happy?

----------


## warlockjmr

One of the other great things about box squats is that they disengage the posterior chain. No stretch reflex makes it so much harder on the working muscles! Def looking into your carb cycling approach 405, seems really interesting.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Ill definitely include them for a few workouts. I got a PB on my racklifts on Wednesday, I got 200kg for 10 easy reps, having previously only got it for 5-6. I'm also cutting, although I've recently introduced a few more carbs to try get a bit more intensity in workouts. I was feeling a little lack-luster. 
> ~185kg for 5 reps though mate, that's a pretty impressive lift too! Have you got an end goal for your cutting? Or you just running with it until you're happy?


just going til im happy! dont know where that will be but i k now its not where im at right now!  :LOL: 

(prob 9-10%)

----------


## --->>405<<---

> One of the other great things about box squats is that they *disengage the posterior chain. No stretch reflex* makes it so much harder on the working muscles! Def looking into your carb cycling approach 405, seems really interesting.


now that is some fancy talk! 

if u have any questions feel free!

----------


## Back In Black

> just going til im happy! dont know where that will be but i k now its not where im at right now! 
> 
> (prob 9-10%)


210lbs sub 10% by the end of the year mate. Then you can set another goal :Smilie: 

Maybe you'll enter that competition next year?

----------


## warlockjmr

Cheers man, I'll give you a shout in the next week or so if thats cool! I feel we're fairly similar in build so would be awesome to pick your brains.

----------


## krugerr

> just going til im happy! dont know where that will be but i k now its not where im at right now! 
> 
> (prob 9-10%)


That's a sweet goal mate. You're still natural right? I think you'll become a beast if/when you do jump on.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 210lbs sub 10% by the end of the year mate. Then you can set another goal
> 
> Maybe you'll enter that competition next year?


i like the way u think there BIB!  :Smilie:  



> Cheers man, I'll give you a shout in the next week or so if thats cool! I feel we're fairly similar in build so would be awesome to pick your brains.


roger that there buddy!  :Smilie:

----------


## -KJ-

Might try box squats... I get an insane lower back pump when squatting so maybe lowering the weight for box squats may help!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> That's a sweet goal mate. You're still natural right? I think you'll become a beast if/when you do jump on.


just TRT  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Might try box squats...* I get an insane lower back pump when squatting* so maybe lowering the weight for box squats may help!!


i do sometimes too. usually its when i do a lot of reps.. do u get them when u go heavy for a single set of 5??

----------


## GirlyGymRat

Hi 405! Been busy and it's keeping me away a bit. 

Did u hit 405? 
Any new "red necks" show up looking to cut? no. Not yet. Pity. Lmbo.

----------


## -KJ-

> i do sometimes too. usually its when i do a lot of reps.. do u get them when u go heavy for a single set of 5??


Not a single set but over two to four sets. It causes me to rest longer to allow it calm down.. It sucks so I was thinking dropping weight on box squat may help.

----------


## --->>405<<---

tomorrow will be day 21 .. feeling and looking better.. vascularity is coming back, definition is coming back, and i actually look as though imay have gained a bit of LBM  :Smilie:

----------


## krugerr

> tomorrow will be day 21 .. feeling and looking better.. vascularity is coming back, definition is coming back, and i actually look as though imay have gained a bit of LBM


Looking real big buddy!

----------


## -KJ-

Looking sweet bro... Delts by the look of things look awesome. By far my favourite body part to work on along with legs.

----------


## Cuz

looking huge, biceps stand out. And damn I wish I could just get that lean. jealous

----------


## Cuz

> thx cajun.. TRT: 50% without a doubt! hard to get lean and make gains when ur natty free test is 7.3 (8.7-25.1) total test was 349 (348-1197)
> 
> assuming we all train and do cardio ill give 45% to diet and 5% to my workouts. basically my old original pic is what i looked like by lifting and doing some cardio with a not so good diet and horrible natty test..


I believe this man, my natty test is in the 400 range right now. And when I done my sust 250 every other week, I seen great gains. Now after being off, nothing...just maybe some shape/symmetry. Would this attribute to my fat settling in my belly? I hate to ask you so many questions on you thread pls forgive me.

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^thx kj and kruger  :Smilie:  

no probs with the questions man thats why this thread is here  :Smilie: 

If ur natty total test is 400 u need to find out wat ur free test is.. Sounds to me like ur a TRT candidate.. That will make all the difference in the world.

----------


## slfmade

Looking good man. I'm starting my cut tomorrow and I'm just finishing the final touches on my diet and training. I'll be posting up a log sometime today. I'll link you in when I get it up. I'll have to get your input on BF%. What's your weight and BF now?

----------


## slfmade

PM Sent

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> tomorrow will be day 21 .. feeling and looking better.. vascularity is coming back, definition is coming back, and i actually look as though imay have gained a bit of LBM


You look thicker so whatever you are doing is working. Nice to see members achieve their goals!

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^thx GGR!  :Smilie:  

hope ur doing well..

----------


## --->>405<<---

so i weighed in this am: 208.6lbs down from 214.8lbs (i think) 3 weeks ago. thats 6.2 lbs over 3 weeks which is right on track  :Smilie: 

i had planned on reducing my carbs this week from 400g to 300g but i thought better of it. no point in doing so as long as im still losing fat. i will continue with 400g carbs EOD at least thru this week. i may reduce them next week and run 300g carbs for 4 weeks. after that i expect to maybe reduce to 200-250g and run it for 4 weeks and after that increase to 2 days fasting one day training.. this is pretty much how i have successfully cut to single digit bf.. 

id also like to note that after just 3 weeks i went from what i would consider fat to not fat. i am not lean by my standards but probably a lot leaner than most average people. feeling good about my diet thus far and have decent momentum going. 

todays carbs consist of:
4 pieces whole wheat toast with sugar free jam + 2 whole eggs, 1 cup egg whites.
4oz whole wheat pasta with tomato and meat sauce
4 servings peanut butter capn crunch
4 whole wheat bagel (thin bagel) sandwiches with ham and onion and mayo

eventually i may have to tighten up on carb sources, but maybe not. i have noticed last week when i ate the bagels i got way better of a pump than i did the time before when i had oatmeal.. it seems the bagels worked well so i am keeping them in. 

post workout today ill have:
2 chicken breasts (bone-in, skin on)
1 pound 96%fat free ground beef sauteed with onion and teriyaki sauce.. 

good day of eating  :Smilie:

----------


## gearbox

bagel (thin) is the next generation pre work out sup  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> bagel (thin) is the next generation pre work out sup


LOL.. u damn straight!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well ive officially graduated.. BiB i know u remember instructing me 2 yrs ago NOt to do squats with a pad. Well i couldnt just use the bar cuz it hurt so bad when i went heavier. I never really understood but assumed i disnt have enuff meat in the trap. 

Well i have been hitting traps hard for the last year or so and also been using a pad to squat. Well today i forgot my pad. Actually i think i lost it. Anyways i did all sets including 405 with no pad and no pain! 

Needless to say im also a fair bit stronger at shrugs than i was a year ago!! Lol.. 

No more pad for me!  :Smilie:   :Smilie:

----------


## gearbox

> Well ive officially graduated.. BiB i know u remember instructing me 2 yrs ago NOt to do squats with a pad. Well i couldnt just use the bar cuz it hurt so bad when i went heavier. I never really understood but assumed i disnt have enuff meat in the trap. 
> 
> Well i have been hitting traps hard for the last year or so and also been using a pad to squat. Well today i forgot my pad. Actually i think i lost it. Anyways i did all sets including 405 with no pad and no pain! 
> 
> Needless to say im also a fair bit stronger at shrugs than i was a year ago!! Lol.. 
> 
> No more pad for me!


congrats on being a big boy now! Now you need to be a big ripped boy....

----------


## Back In Black

> Well ive officially graduated.. BiB i know u remember instructing me 2 yrs ago NOt to do squats with a pad. Well i couldnt just use the bar cuz it hurt so bad when i went heavier. I never really understood but assumed i disnt have enuff meat in the trap.
> 
> Well i have been hitting traps hard for the last year or so and also been using a pad to squat. Well today i forgot my pad. Actually i think i lost it. Anyways i did all sets including 405 with no pad and no pain!
> 
> Needless to say im also a fair bit stronger at shrugs than i was a year ago!! Lol..
> 
> No more pad for me!


You see, I might know what I'm on about. Sometimes at least :Smilie: 

Traps are great, such a huge part of the back, I fail to see why people completely neglect them. Thery are also pretty I,portent for good posture too (as well as the rhomboids).

I hope you've stopped wearing the belt for bicep curls too :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> You see, I might know what I'm on about. Sometimes at least
> 
> Traps are great, such a huge part of the back, I fail to see why people completely neglect them. Thery are also pretty I,portent for good posture too (as well as the rhomboids).
> 
> I hope you've stopped wearing the belt for bicep curls too


u get stuff right once in awhile..  :Wink: 

i havent done a bicep curl in a year!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> congrats on being a big boy now! Now you need to be a big ripped boy....


im working on it buddy!

----------


## Back In Black

> i havent done a bicep curl in a year!


Really? Could never tell (insert sarcasm emoticon here)  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Really? Could never tell (insert sarcasm emoticon here)


Haha.. I dont give a damn.. My arms looks pretty good and are sizable enuff. I cant do em cuz of medial epicondylitis. 

I have also developed lateral epicondylitis in my right Arm now..

----------


## Brazensol

What is the benefit of not using the pad for squats?

----------


## Back In Black

> What is the benefit of not using the pad for squats?


It means you stop being a pvssy :Wink:

----------


## Brazensol

Guess I better work on the traps then.

How about a towel? lol.

----------


## RaginCajun

> Well ive officially graduated.. BiB i know u remember instructing me 2 yrs ago NOt to do squats with a pad. Well i couldnt just use the bar cuz it hurt so bad when i went heavier. I never really understood but assumed i disnt have enuff meat in the trap.
> 
> Well i have been hitting traps hard for the last year or so and also been using a pad to squat. Well today i forgot my pad. Actually i think i lost it. Anyways i did all sets including 405 with no pad and no pain!
> 
> Needless to say im also a fair bit stronger at shrugs than i was a year ago!! Lol..
> 
> No more pad for me!


I have never used a pad for squats but now I want bigger traps!

Congrats on graduating!

----------


## --->>405<<---

23 hrs fasted plus 50mins intervals at noon and 40 mins intervals at 1800.. whew.. hitting it hard..

next week will mark the beginning of week 5 (end of week 4) so i will go to the bod pod to see how i fare. started at 17.8% im hoping to see somewhere in the 15's..

----------


## Brazensol

Since I've just started squats it sounds like box squats are the way to go. I'd never heard of them before this site so it's nice to learn new things. How wide a stance would you recommend to start with? Of course I'll have to lower the weight to completely embarrassing levels but I can live with that if this will build my legs.

Oh! And congrats on your progress. Sounds like you are taking no prisoners!

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^yeh thx man  :Smilie: 

i would suggest u stand with whatever feels comfortable. personally i prefer a wider stance. i have noticed since my legs have gotten bigger that the more comfortable stance for me is a wider one with my toes turned slightly outward.. 

id also suggest starting out with just the bar to get a feel for the movement. do 6-8 reps with just the bar.. then slowly add weight with each set until u hit ur work set weight. u will know where this is  :Smilie: 

remember u may be doing less weight now, but itll lead to more weight down the road..

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well upper workout to do.. About to go in. Feeling kinda tired and hurt so i will prob go easy..

----------


## Back In Black

> Well upper workout to do.. About to go in. Feeling kinda tired and hurt so i will prob go easy..


Hurt?

----------


## kelkel

Physically or emotionally?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Hurt?


well not injured per se, but ive been stayn with my mom as my dad is in the hospital (heart attack) and his bed is (was) horrible to sleep on, i think it may have caused a bit of pain in the shoulder i had 2 surgeries on (right).. today i pinpointed it with shrugs and deads. its the straight downward pulling on that shoulder that hurts. feels muscular and like stabilizing muscles or something , i think itll get better as i take it easy so for the next 2 upper workouts ill go light and see how i go. 

on a side note i managed 275 x 10 today on bench which i think is a first..  :Smilie:  




> Physically or emotionally?


haha... physically is what i was referring to above..  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

> on a side note i managed 275 x 10 today on bench which i think is a first.. 
> )


That's not right is it?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> That's not right is it?


Huh??

----------


## Back In Black

> Huh??


I thought you benched more than that by quite a bit?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I thought you benched more than that by quite a bit?


Not for 10 reps.. Usually when i do 275 its for 6-8 ..  :Smilie: 

I did:
275 x 10
295 x 6

----------


## Brazensol

> Well upper workout to do.. About to go in. Feeling kinda tired and hurt so i will prob go easy..


I've noticed quite often my best lift days, ones that seemed most productive, occur when I walk in feeling tired and as if it will be a waste of time to even go through the motions. Funny how that works! Not always of course but more often than seems logical.

----------


## Brazensol

I hope your dad is doing ok.

----------


## Back In Black

> Not for 10 reps.. Usually when i do 275 its for 6-8 .. 
> 
> I did:
> 275 x 10
> 295 x 6


Well then, well done buddy :Smilie:  all the way down to the chest and no spotrer i assume?

I pb'd my incline and flat dumbell presses today :Smilie:  isn't it a good feeling :Smilie:

----------


## RaginCajun

Damn 405, sorry to hear about ya dad man.

I will say a little prayer for him and ya fam

275 x 10, datta way to push it!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I've noticed quite often my best lift days, ones that seemed most productive, occur when I walk in feeling tired and as if it will be a waste of time to even go through the motions. Funny how that works! Not always of course but more often than seems logical.


yeh ive noticed this phenomena quite often myself.. it is weird.. the same can be said for running..

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I hope your dad is doing ok.





> Damn 405, sorry to hear about ya dad man.
> 
> I will say a little prayer for him and ya fam
> 
> 275 x 10, datta way to push it!


yeh thx dudes...  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

shoulder is feeling a bit better today.. 

the whole mental thing with cutting is funny.. no matter how many times i do it i still have instances where i question my diet and think it isnt working or isnt gonna work.. sometimes our biggest obstacles can be our own thinking..

----------


## Brazensol

But the best part is when you start to get results and then you just start to feed off those and it just makes you more determined and helps to make the whole process easier. If you can see it in your mind the body will follow. Most people fail because they want instant gratification and some things just take time...

----------


## RaginCajun

> shoulder is feeling a bit better today..
> 
> the whole mental thing with cutting is funny.. no matter how many times i do it i still have instances where i question my diet and think it isnt working or isnt gonna work.. sometimes our biggest obstacles can be our own thinking..


I think that this is one of my main problems and I don't listen to my body enough

Glad to here that the shoulder is healing up

----------


## --->>405<<---

alrighty there girls and boys we are coming up on a milemarker of this cut: the 4 week BOD POD test!

this will be the tale teller of how well ive done over the last 4 weeks. i will post a pic of the printout i get so everyone can see im not BS'ing  :Smilie: 

i am thinking i may be in the 15's.. hopefully lower 15s than higher! i started at 17.8 4 weeks ago.. i believe my weight was (ill scroll back and find it and post it here --->> 214lbs 17.8%bf 176.2lbs LBM)  :Smilie: 

i would like to note i am pretty confident i have lost .5% per week which should give me a total loss of at least 2.0% which would put me at 15.8%.. i am gonna hope i did a bit better than that! 

i would also like to add i have not been extremely strict with my choices or my quantities up to this point as i was fairly high in bf% when i started and i wanted to leave a LOT of room for tweaks because after all i needed to drop 8% body fat! depending on the results of this first 4 weeks i will more than likely make my first tweak which will be to reduce my carbs on training days from 400g (ish) down to 300g solid.. i will hold this probably for another 2-4 weeks depending how i do and then reduce again.

----------


## krugerr

0.5% week is a good rate buddy! I'll check back tomorrow to see your printout!

----------


## --->>405<<---

4 week pics.. not sure of my weight but somewhere around 204 lbs (down about 10 lbs in 4 weeks)..

in case u cant tell the pics with the green shorts are the ones i posted 4 weeks (and about 10lbs ago).. thatd be pics 1 and 4  :Smilie:

----------


## Zodiac82

^^^ looks like the "trains" in the right "track"

----------


## --->>405<<---

> ^^^ looks like the "trains" in the right "track"


thanks (i think)  :LOL:

----------


## Zodiac82

pahaha...meant to say *on not in...stupid keyboard

----------


## Giggle

Man. Looking good!
Great job with the cut, I hope you get the results you want in the Bodpod.
I used to train in a gym that had that same leg extension - it hit the quads in just the right spot. I miss it sniff sniff.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> 4 week pics.. not sure of my weight but somewhere around 204 lbs (down about 10 lbs in 4 weeks)..
> 
> in case u cant tell the pics with the green shorts are the ones i posted 4 weeks (and about 10lbs ago).. thatd be pics 1 and 4


Hard to believe only one mo. 

I noticed you like to switch the diet around. Muscle and metabolism confusion!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Man. Looking good!
> Great job with the cut, I hope you get the results you want in the Bodpod.
> I used to train in a gym that had that same leg extension - it hit the quads in just the right spot. I miss it sniff sniff.


thx giggle .. yeh my gym i like a lot it has a bunch of nautilus equipment from the 70s in there ..  :Smilie: 




> Hard to believe only one mo. 
> 
> I noticed you like to switch the diet around. Muscle and metabolism confusion!


yeh this time i switched the diet to eat whatever the heck i want! now im paying for it!  :LOL:

----------


## krugerr

Apologies 405 if you've covered it already. 

What are you doing in terms of diet for this cut? Just a deficit? Carb cycling? Fasting?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Apologies 405 if you've covered it already. 
> 
> What are you doing in terms of diet for this cut? Just a deficit? Carb cycling? Fasting?


LOL.. yes!

deficit, eod fasting, carb cycling, eod cardio, eod training

----------


## krugerr

> LOL.. yes!
> 
> deficit, eod fasting, carb cycling, eod cardio, eod training


Sweet - I was just curious if you still employed all of those even at your higher BF. do you stick to fasting times on your training days too? Like a general IF principle?

----------


## --->>405<<---

no only fast on non training days.. if u read a few posts back u would see i have been lax on food choices and allowed plenty of carbs on training days in order to make room for tweaks over the longer term as i has anticipated this cut to take 12-16 weeks to hit single digits..  :Smilie:

----------


## krugerr

> no only fast on non training days.. if u read a few posts back u would see i have been lax on food choices and allowed plenty of carbs on training days in order to make room for tweaks over the longer term as i has anticipated this cut to take 12-16 weeks to hit single digits..


Ah yes! My bad  :Wink:  
Doing good though buddy, keep it up!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Ah yes! My bad  
> Doing good though buddy, keep it up!


Lol.. No prob i do the same thing actually.. A lot easier to ask than read! 

Thx and i intend to.. Got some pretty good momentum going now. Wouldnt mind a cheat meal as its been 4 weeks since ive had one.

----------


## krugerr

> Lol.. No prob i do the same thing actually.. A lot easier to ask than read!
> 
> Thx and i intend to.. Got some pretty good momentum going now. Wouldnt mind a cheat meal as its been 4 weeks since ive had one.


I'm looking forward to a tub of peanut butter mixed with 2 litres of ice cream! 

Got your heart set on your next cheat?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> i'm looking forward to a tub of peanut butter mixed with 2 litres of ice cream! 
> 
> Got your heart set on your next cheat?


thinking a large pizza!  :Smilie:

----------


## krugerr

> thinking a large pizza!


I had one for my last, the idea of it was much better than the actual pizza. It seemed so greasy, and although I enjoyed it, I felt cheated, I was satisfied really. I always find that with Chinese too, the idea is fantastic, but always disappointed afterward.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I had one for my last, the idea of it was much better than the actual pizza. It seemed so greasy, and although I enjoyed it, I felt cheated, I was satisfied really. I always find that with Chinese too, the idea is fantastic, but always disappointed afterward.


u havent had vinnie van go go's pepperoni, mushroom, italian sausage!!!  :Smilie:

----------


## krugerr

> u havent had vinnie van go go's pepperoni, mushroom, italian sausage!!!


Uk delivery?? 30 minutes or the pizza is free?  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Uk delivery?? 30 minutes or the pizza is free?


LOL.. if i could do that i could retire!  :LOL:

----------


## krugerr

> LOL.. if i could do that i could retire!


Hah!

----------


## Brazensol

You know your getting into cutting thing when you crave cottage cheese with blueberries and a little bit of peaches. Last time I had a piece of pizza I was surprised at how disappointed I was with it. And I felt friggen' guilty to boot... lol. Now I just got to cut back on the wine...

----------


## --->>405<<---

> You know your getting into cutting thing when you crave cottage cheese with blueberries and a little bit of peaches. Last time I had a piece of pizza I was surprised at how disappointed I was with it. And I felt friggen' guilty to boot... lol. Now I just got to cut back on the wine...


one of my favorite before bed snacks:

cottage cheese with strawberry sugar free smuckers stirred in as well as cold blueberries (once frozen but thawed perfectly so still cold) + sliced banana all in a big bowl!!

----------


## krugerr

I've never tried cottage cheese with jam. I'll do that tomorrow!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I've never tried cottage cheese with jam. I'll do that tomorrow!


its awesome! u have to stir it in with a fork to get it creamy.

----------


## Sfla80

> one of my favorite before bed snacks:
> 
> cottage cheese with strawberry sugar free smuckers stirred in as well as cold blueberries (once frozen but thawed perfectly so still cold) + sliced banana all in a big bowl!!


Actually do this alot. Well just add the jam that is. Its great

----------


## Brazensol

> one of my favorite before bed snacks:
> 
> cottage cheese with strawberry sugar free smuckers stirred in as well as cold blueberries (once frozen but thawed perfectly so still cold) + sliced banana all in a big bowl!!


Sounds good! Bet I'll try it before the week is out!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Sounds good! Bet I'll try it before the week is out!


do it man it is awesome! it is a close second to ice cream..!! (maybe .. ehh... that might be a bit of a stretch!  :LOL:  )

----------


## kelkel

Cottage cheese with peaches and peach juice. Love it. 

May have to try the smuckers thing. Once.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Cottage cheese with peaches and peach juice. Love it. 
> 
> May have to try the smuckers thing. Once.


heya buddy! good to see u.  :Welcome:

----------


## Zodiac82

yeh that sugar free jam is surprisingly reeeeaally good

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well its taken me all week but today i finally get to do my 4 week BOD POD test. 

Stay tuned!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well it looks like i am incorrect! they decided to move the damn thing to another office and i cant get an appt until next week the dicks..

----------


## RaginCajun

damn that bites!

i need to find one around my area and check it out

----------


## --->>405<<---

glad to have some vascularity again and at @ 14% (ish)  :Smilie:

----------


## Brazensol

Looking good. I need to get me some of those big, bulgy things like you have on the backside of your shins... Based on your ~14'ish estimate I am guessing I am somewhere around 16%. I'm getting veins in my legs and even on my abs (a first for me I might add) but not nearly to the extent you've got going on. Can't wait to see your bod pod results.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Looking good. I need to get me some of those big, bulgy things like you have on the backside of your shins... Based on your ~14'ish estimate I am guessing I am somewhere around 16%. I'm getting veins in my legs and even on my abs (a first for me I might add) but not nearly to the extent you've got going on. Can't wait to see your bod pod results.


thx buddy! i am looking forward to the bod pod results too just for another confirmation my diet is indeed working (which i know it is). i have pretty much been using IIFYM for my carbs sources on training days and it has been fine thus far. as i get leaner i may have to tighten up the choices if for no other reason 100g carbs comes a LOT easier with a big bowl of sugary cereal witgh raisins and bananas than a bowl of oats  :LOL: 

as cals go down, carb sources are more geared toward what has the most quantity for the macros vs flavor..

----------


## kelkel

Looking good 405!

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ok bod pod finally .. On the way..  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Long story - short:

The new location is gonna be problems as the people are imbeciles..! No test the machine is not working .. Aye aye aye.. 

Never a single delay or problem at the place right by my work...

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok DAMMIT!! BOD POD attempt # 3 , third times a charm right?? looking for being in the 14's would be happier in the 13's but we will see..

----------


## Brazensol

Who would have thought it would be so hard to find someone to take your money!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Who would have thought it would be so hard to find someone to take your money!


LOL.. no i already paid monday (or tuesday whatever day it was) so they have that!  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well the damn thing came back 16.6% body fat.. Needless to say im pretty fcuking unhappy about that! 5 weeks and 1.2% drop = about .25% per week.. 

So much for IIFYM.. Back to the basic i dont wanna waste any more fcuking time dammit!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

I really dont feel that fat. ... Well at least i am not gonna slack!

----------


## Brazensol

Cardio for the win... lol. Now you got me scared to go to the bod pod! I may not like the results.

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ lol.. Itll keep u honest! I say screw all that "what bf% do u think i am?" Shit..

----------


## gearbox

Ateast you know where your at now. I am dragging my feet cause I want to be slower bf before I go haha.

Do you take in the morning fasted?
I am trying to figure out at what point do I up the cardio. Currently doing 1 hour elliptical fast in am and wait 3 hours after to eat breakfast. 600 below tdee

----------


## --->>405<<---

> *Do you take in the morning fasted?*
> I am trying to figure out at what point do I up the cardio. Currently doing 1 hour elliptical fast in am and wait 3 hours after to eat breakfast. 600 below tdee


 :Hmmmm:  ??

----------


## gearbox

> ??


The body pod. Do you go take the test on emoty stomach. The variance is easily 2%

----------


## --->>405<<---

> The body pod. Do you go take the test on emoty stomach. The variance is easily 2%


yeh fasted.. on no/low carb days.. she also asked me if they used the "lean" setting previously.. i had no idea, i didnt know it had different settings but apparently it does. she did me on lean. i dont think im 16.6% but i could be wrong. if i am,i look pretty good to be that fat! nevertheless i am modifying my diet monday and eliminating all "dirty" carbs. ive pretty much been eating bread and cereal for my carbs.. 

like today i had capn crunch and raisins and bananas and oats all in a big bowl with almond milk (about 100-130g carbs worth) and then after that i had 8 pieces of bread (4 toasted with jelly, and 2 ham sandwiches with mayo and onion - LOL) about 300-350g carbs.. ish..

----------


## gearbox

> yeh fasted.. on no/low carb days.. she also asked me if they used the "lean" setting previously.. i had no idea, i didnt know it had different settings but apparently it does. she did me on lean. i dont think im 16.6% but i could be wrong. if i am,i look pretty good to be that fat! nevertheless i am modifying my diet monday and eliminating all "dirty" carbs. ive pretty much been eating bread and cereal for my carbs.. 
> 
> like today i had capn crunch and raisins and bananas and oats all in a big bowl with almond milk (about 100-130g carbs worth) and then after that i had 8 pieces of bread (4 toasted with jelly, and 2 ham sandwiches with mayo and onion - LOL) about 300-350g carbs.. ish..


Eating all that I bet your 18.6% haha jk.
I gotta make an appointment and go.

----------


## Brazensol

> yeh fasted.. on no/low carb days.. she also asked me if they used the "lean" setting previously.. i had no idea, i didnt know it had different settings but apparently it does. she did me on lean. i dont think im 16.6% but i could be wrong. if i am,i look pretty good to be that fat! nevertheless i am modifying my diet monday and eliminating all "dirty" carbs. ive pretty much been eating bread and cereal for my carbs.. 
> 
> like today i had capn crunch and raisins and bananas and oats all in a big bowl with almond milk (about 100-130g carbs worth) and then after that i had 8 pieces of bread (4 toasted with jelly, and 2 ham sandwiches with mayo and onion - LOL) about 300-350g carbs.. ish..


Just remember - 16.5% bf for the typical male is anything but fat! I know we want less but it helps keep it in perspective. We also know we'll get there.

For instance while out and about today I say two guys crossing at an intersection both without shirts, and 4 months ago I would have thought they looked pretty good (compared to me). Now I thought they looked like two pudges... lol.

----------


## gearbox

It is amazing how our out look and perspective can change over time. 

405 is a fat as#, get your butt on the treadmill  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Lol thx guys!  :LOL:  

My prob is it doesnt matter how i compare to anyone else, wat matters is how i measure up to my personal standards. 

16.6% is fat compared to 9.3% which i was in february!! Ill be back there soon!  :Smilie:

----------


## -KJ-

> Lol thx guys!  
> 
> My prob is it doesnt matter how i compare to anyone else, wat matters is how i measure up to my personal standards. 
> 
> 16.6% is fat compared to 9.3% which i was in february!! Ill be back there soon!


Im hoping I can be at 16.6% in a few weeks  :Smilie:

----------


## Brazensol

> Lol thx guys!  
> 
> My prob is it doesnt matter how i compare to anyone else, wat matters is how i measure up to my personal standards. 
> 
> 16.6% is fat compared to 9.3% which i was in february!! Ill be back there soon!


I think mine is about the same as yours are a bit higher. I will get to the bod pod Wednesday and get the verdict. I've only got a month till we move but I am going to bust my arse to get it down 1 full percent before we leave on the 9th of Sept. I figure I won't be able to avoid putting on a few pounds on the drive across the country... I am taking my bike with me though so I can try and get in some miles at the end of the day and while at my sisters.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well the old diet modification has been put into effect. 

Primarily on non training day reduced the fat and cals in my salad by dropping the ranch dressing, almonds, eggs, and ham.. 

On training days have reduced carbs from 350-400g of bread and sugary cereal to a strict 250g of oats brn rice and sweet pitato or whole wheat pasta. 

Cals about 3200 from 3800.. 

I expect to see a significant difference from these adjustments...

For thoroughness my non training day cals are around 1200.. 

Puts me to 4400 over 2 days which is 2200 per day which is angood cuttig caloric amount for me. I should not have to make much more modifications to hit 10%.. Maybe one more small drop in carbs.. Ill re-evaluate in 4 weeks or on the 9th september..

----------


## -KJ-

> Well the old diet modification has been put into effect. 
> 
> Primarily on non training day reduced the fat and cals in my salad by dropping the ranch dressing, almonds, eggs, and ham.. 
> 
> On training days have reduced carbs from 350-400g of bread and sugary cereal to a strict 250g of oats brn rice and sweet pitato or whole wheat pasta. 
> 
> Cals about 3200 from 3800.. 
> 
> I expect to see a significant difference from these adjustments...
> ...


I see you have dropped the IIFYM mind set and gone with a more 'traditional' type diet.

Are you in a surplus/maintenance on training days and large deficit on non training days.

----------


## --->>405<<---

[QUOTE=-KJ-;6641854]


> I see you have dropped the IIFYM mind set and gone with a more 'traditional' type diet.


yep. iifym worked for a few weeks, and maybe wouldve continued to work with some modifications but progress was going too slowly.. .25%bf drop per week and about 1pound.. i think i had actually stalled the last 2 weeks. 




> Are you in a surplus/maintenance on training days and large deficit on non training days.


yes in a surplus on training days by a couple hundred cals and a big deficit on non training days.. i do all cardio on non training days..

----------


## -KJ-

What's are your macros like on non training days? All carbs gone fats gone? Or just greens? 

Curious to know cheers bro

----------


## --->>405<<---

*non-training days:*

1257cals, 171g pro, 24g carbs, 46g fat

fast until 1800 (wake at 0600 so 12 hr fast plus sleeping time)

meal1: salad with: 1 chikn breast, tomato, onion, spinach, romaine, cucumber, turkey pepperoni, 1 egg (sometimes), balsamic vinegar

meal2: 1chikn breast, tomato, onion, spinach, romaine, cucumber, turkey pepperoni, almonds, 1 egg (sometimes), balsamic vinegar meal 2 is optional. sometimes i have just the chicken breast..

*training days:*

3321cals 398g pro, 276g carbs, 66g fat 

meal1: 
2whole eggs, 1cup egg whites, 4oz beef, 1 cup oats [with 40g raisins and 20g brn sugar (to shuttle carnitine past blood brain barrier)]

meal2: 
8oz beef, 3/4 cup brn rice

meal3:
8oz beef, 4oz whole wheat angel hair pasta, homemade tomato sauce

*TRAIN*

meal4:
2 chicken breasts (about 1 pound)

meal5:
1pound lean beef (sometimes with a salad as mentioned on non training days)..

----------


## -KJ-

Good plan.... So no fast on training days?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Good plan.... So no fast on training days?


no, the idea is to keep training days as anabolic as possible which is why i eat at surplus and do no cardio.. all "dieting" is done on non training days (which is why i train eod and by default diet eod)  :Smilie:  

once i get to 10% (ish) i will actually add an additional non training day so its a 3 day split and it further increases deficit. at this time i also have to increase my TRT dose of test to ensure preserving LBM.

i also train heavy and with low volume running upper/lower 2 day training split.

----------


## Brazensol

> no, the idea is to keep training days as anabolic as possible which is why i eat at surplus and do no cardio.. all "dieting" is done on non training days (which is why i train eod and by default diet eod)  
> 
> once i get to 10% (ish) i will actually add an additional non training day so its a 3 day split and it further increases deficit. *at this time i also have to increase my TRT dose of test to ensure preserving LBM.*
> 
> i also train heavy and with low volume running upper/lower 2 day training split.


How much do you plan to increase by?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> How much do you plan to increase by?


Depends. Last time i went to 200mg per week and ran 2 or 3 weeks at 300mg and i went to 9%body fat

This time i may not do it at all for a couple reasons:
1. The effort it took to get from 10 to 9 % far exceeded the effort to get from 13 to 10% ( yes u read that correctly).. And i was happy at 10% taking that into consideration.. 

2. I may run a bulk cycle after this cut.. (My first cycle)

----------


## JohnnieWalker

> Depends. Last time i went to 200mg per week and ran 2 or 3 weeks at 300mg and i went to 9%body fat
> 
> This time i may not do it at all for a couple reasons:
> 1. The effort it took to get from 10 to 9 % far exceeded the effort to get from 13 to 10% ( yes u read that correctly).. And i was happy at 10% taking that into consideration..
> 
> 2. I may run a bulk cycle after this cut.. (My first cycle)


Ph wow you haven't cycled at all? I read the first few pages of this and then the last few pages. I must say OP you've come a long way. Big inspiration to us all.

----------


## Brazensol

> Depends. Last time i went to 200mg per week and ran 2 or 3 weeks at 300mg and i went to 9%body fat
> 
> This time i may not do it at all for a couple reasons:
> 1. The effort it took to get from 10 to 9 % far exceeded the effort to get from 13 to 10% (* yes u read that correctly*).. And i was happy at 10% taking that into consideration.. 
> 
> 2. I may run a bulk cycle after this cut.. (My first cycle)


I believe you. When I was at 35% just thinking about cutting my calories caused the bf to drop (seemed like it anyway). Now it is getting harder and harder and I am hitting more plateaus that take longer to push through. I think (I hope) I will be pretty satisfied at 12-13% but may take a stab at sub 10% just to do it.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i cam eup with a pretty good concoction this morning for a meal:

sweet potato and ground beef all mixed together with stevia and sugar free mrs butterworths pancake syrup.. 

it was actually pretty good and quite satisfying! i have included a pic but i dont think the pic will help my case much LOL  :LOL:

----------


## --->>405<<---

id also like to note siince making the revisions of my carb choices/sources last week i have noticed some more fat loss this week. look pretty good with the exception of the good ole lower back love handle area (everyones favorite!)  :Smilie:

----------


## Brazensol

> well i cam eup with a pretty good concoction this morning for a meal:
> 
> sweet potato and ground beef all mixed together with stevia and sugar free mrs butterworths pancake syrup.. 
> 
> it was actually pretty good and quite satisfying! i have included a pic but i dont think the pic will help my case much LOL


After a few decades eating military food that don't look bad at all... I'll give it a try! You should see how my morning eggs look. But they sure do taste good!

----------


## Brazensol

> id also like to note siince making the revisions of my carb choices/sources last week i have noticed some more fat loss this week. look pretty good with the exception of the good ole lower back love handle area (everyones favorite!)


What is it with the lower back? Glad it's not only me (misery loves company). I am having trouble with a little ridge of fat that runs from just below my nipple straight back towards my arm pit. Damn thing is just taking it time going away. I hope it can't hold out much longer but I will prevail!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> What is it with the lower back? Glad it's not only me (misery loves company). I am having trouble with a little ridge of fat that runs from just below my nipple straight back towards my arm pit. Damn thing is just taking it time going away. I hope it can't hold out much longer but I will prevail!


^^LOL.. yeh for me both of em hang out until 10-12%.. a lot of it has to do with how much water ur holding too.. or at least it does me. once u get to 10% the fat in both places is gone.. u can still have "fat days" at 10%bf though believe it or not!  :LOL:

----------


## mockery

> fast until 1800 (wake at 0600 so 12 hr fast plus sleeping time)


glad to see someone who is fasting is taking advantage of *teh huge difference* when fasting from 18-20 hours, apposed to 14-16 hours of lean gains and such.

nice one.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Had a strong leg workout. 

Box squatted: 455 x 5, 405 x 10 no problem

Considered 495 but decided to wait .. I guess im a pu55y ..  :Smilie:

----------


## Brazensol

I tried 195 x 5 today and my form went to pieces! Serves me right for putting off legs for so long. Paying the price now. At least my knees are in great shape!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I tried 195 x 5 today and my form went to pieces! Serves me right for putting off legs for so long. Paying the price now. At least my knees are in great shape!


hey man back when i started doing them i was doing 225 and stuff.  :Smilie:  itlll come. you tube "box squats" and watch some vids and do them. they are the best IMO

----------


## Brazensol

Thanks! It just takes time. And effort. And sometimes puking... lol.

Though in all honesty I tend to feel more nauseous after leg presses than I do on squats. At least so far. I am more apt to see "pinwheels" on squats though. Probably a breathing issue I need to fix.

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ yeh u gotta breathe..  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well once again a good leg workout. next time i do legs i think i will be moving to 5 plates (495lbs) on the squat. i will be sure to have a spotter though. funny i noticed today whenever i did 455 everyone paused and watched LOL.. i realize there are a lot of people who can do a good bit more, but not the average person so ive seen. this is also for reps and triple dropsetting. 455, 405, 365.. for a single rep i know i can do 500+ maybe 550. i also want to see how high i can go on deads. im betting 500ish.. im guessing im somewhere in the neighborhood of 1400lbs for the big 3.. not bad for a 38yr old ex fat butt!!  :Smilie: 

once i get this done i will post the results. i have noticed doing deads is helping my strength overall as well as my core. ive been doing 10 rep sets and loving them they are freaking brutal!

----------


## --->>405<<---

also i have modified my diet from fasting eod to a std 2200 cals on training days and 1800-2000cals no carbs on non training days. it is a nice change to get to eat breakfast every day again. i needed the mental break after pretty much fasting for 10 months eod. 

we'll see how it affects my progress. i really dont expectt it to affect it negatively much. i think dieting can be as simple or complicated as u choose to make it. time will tell the tale. i know 2 yrs ago when i originally cut i got pretty dang lean eating the same thing everyday. now i just have 2 different diets.

training: 
2265cals
252g carbs
216g protein
45g fat

non training:
1920cals
270g pro
49g carbs
31g fat

----------


## Back In Black

Hoofookingray :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Hoofookingray


LOL.. why all the excitement?  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

> LOL.. why all the excitement?


A normal diet at last, none of this fasting nonsense. I am sincerely hoping that you really do notice a difference once your body adapts to it. (A good difference, of course :Smilie:  ).

----------


## --->>405<<---

> A normal diet at last, none of this fasting nonsense. I am sincerely hoping that you really do notice a difference once your body adapts to it. (A good difference, of course ).


me 2 buddy thx! one thing i notice immediately: im not hungry all day long anymore!  :Smilie:

----------


## Brazensol

Sounds like you are making excellent progress. I can't even imagine doing those heavy ass squats. My short term (3-4 months?) goal is 10 reps at 230. At least then my legs will about my bench press. Maybe. lol

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Sounds like you are making excellent progress. I can't even imagine doing those heavy ass squats. My short term (3-4 months?) goal is 10 reps at 230. At least then my legs will about my bench press. Maybe. lol


yessir good progress! and i havent even done any steroids yet!  :LOL:  im getting ready to though here soon!

----------


## --->>405<<---

ok a little 8 week comparison (because i have been cutting 8 weeks now  :Wink:  ).. have felt it has been tuffer to drop fat than i remember but i suppose i am making ok progress.. BTW i discontinued the peptides. have considered running the test/var but not sure if i want to have my first cycle be a cut.. probably not.. i think i will just stay the course and jump on 500mg test at some point maybe in 8 more weeks..

----------


## Brazensol

Looks like your coming along nicely on the cut! Definately seeing the changes.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Looks like your coming along nicely on the cut! Definately seeing the changes.


thx braz... i think the point im at is basically:

a) cycle

b) gain fat

i dont think there is a lot of muscle left for me to gain. sure maybe i could gain a pound or 2 slowly over a year but screw that man..  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

Just get on with the damn cycle already :Smilie:

----------


## Tron3219

> a
> 
> a
> 
> a
> 
> a
> 
> a
> ...


Agreed...step it up sissy :P

----------


## --->>405<<---

> a
> 
> a
> 
> a
> 
> a
> 
> a
> ...





> Agreed...step it up sissy :P


LOL  :LOL:  hey there fellas!  :Smilie:  yeh i know .. i need to get a little more fat off me before i will feel comfortable eating a surplus.. maybe another 4 weeks ish.. i dont wanna end up back at 18% again.

----------


## Back In Black

How long have you been on a deficit this time?

If you are careful with your calorie surplus on cycle you won't gain fat and maybe the opposite. It depends how much 'weight' you actually want to gain.

----------


## Tron3219

I've been gone for awhile...what happened? Fall off the wagon?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> How long have you been on a deficit this time?
> 
> If you are careful with your calorie surplus on cycle you won't gain fat and maybe the opposite. It depends how much 'weight' you actually want to gain.


well cycle wise i would like to gain a good bit of weight, obviously the least amount of fat possible. it being my first cycle i wanna be able to go at it hard. 





> I've been gone for awhile...what happened? Fall off the wagon?


yeh the food wagon.. after my vacay the end of april i went balls to the wall for ab out 10 weeks eating dirty and not counting anything. almost deliberately trying to get fat LOL.. it was good, but it came with a price.  :Smilie:

----------


## Tron3219

> well cycle wise i would like to gain a good bit of weight, obviously the least amount of fat possible. it being my first cycle i wanna be able to go at it hard.
> 
> 
> yeh the food wagon.. after my vacay the end of april i went balls to the wall for ab out 10 weeks eating dirty and not counting anything. almost deliberately trying to get fat LOL.. it was good, but it came with a price.


It's been my experience that while ur on cycle u can eat 1000cals over tdee and it's like eating 500cal off cycle. Your body becomes extremely efficient! I'm eating closer to 1500cal while on right now and I'm gaining some fat, but not 2 pounds of fat a week. I've been gaining about 2-3 pounds a week. And I'd say 25% of tht maybe is fat.

Yeah I do that frequently lol but I tend to do it twice a month for 2 days. 80/20 rule! Lol I think being on a constant diet (deficit or surplus) is doomed fr failure.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> It's been my experience that while ur on cycle u can eat 1000cals over tdee and it's like eating 500cal off cycle. Your body becomes extremely efficient! I'm eating closer to 1500cal while on right now and I'm gaining some fat, but not 2 pounds of fat a week. I've been gaining about 2-3 pounds a week. And I'd say 25% of tht maybe is fat.
> 
> Yeah I do that frequently lol but I tend to do it twice a month for 2 days. 80/20 rule! Lol I think being on a constant diet (deficit or surplus) is doomed fr failure.


have u gone back to eating carbs again?? or are u still getting most energy cals from fats??

----------


## Tron3219

> have u gone back to eating carbs again?? or are u still getting most energy cals from fats??


I'm eating carbs now. I thought if give it a try since my bf was lower, plus I want to start using slin and gH so I figured it'd b in my best interest to have a high carb, low fat diet. High carbs are definitely easier on the wallet but hard to put in ur belly. However I'm not really noticing much difference in energy at the gym except I'm not taking as long of breaks between sets. Which I don't think plays to much into the overall factor.

----------


## --->>405<<---

slin and GH huh? hear ya man.. if/when u do, log it. id like to see the kind of results that produces..  :Smilie:

----------


## Zodiac82

good job...definitely getting there..ur obliques are straight down now vs rounded in the previous pics

----------


## tbody66

405, your pic is sic!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 405, your pic is sic!


yo tbody!! i was just thinking about you a couple days ago... hows it been dude??  :Smilie:

----------


## tbody66

Life is good. I am blessed! Busy...busy...busy, but truly blessed!

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> Life is good. I am blessed! Busy...busy...busy, but truly blessed!


Luv reading this!

Apologizing to 405 for commenting in your thread but I haven't seen this fella on the boards in what seems like a year!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i have decided to give my body a rest. i have been training heavy now for many months and a lot of dropsets and stuff. i have been sleeping like crap lately waking up in pain, back hurting, shoulder hurtiing.. it really sucks! also i think i have tendonitis in one of the tendons in my freaking neck! whenever i bend over or lean a certain way there is a burning in the neck that feels like an inflamed tendon. also i am tired as hell! 

basically im taking this as my body telling me i need to give it a break so for the next week i will do a deload workout and reduced cardio and eat at maintenance cals. at the end of the week i will resume my cut but probably shift back into a CKD to finish it out. i anticipate another 6-8weeks..

with it being a CKD i will only have one heavy day per week instead of EOD..

----------


## Back In Black

Yeah, this HIIT stuff is tough going for us old boys :Wink:

----------


## Brazensol

> well i have decided to give my body a rest. i have been training heavy now for many months and a lot of dropsets and stuff. i have been sleeping like crap lately waking up in pain, back hurting, shoulder hurtiing.. it really sucks! also i think i have tendonitis in one of the tendons in my freaking neck! whenever i bend over or lean a certain way there is a burning in the neck that feels like an inflamed tendon. also i am tired as hell! 
> 
> basically im taking this as my body telling me i need to give it a break so for the next week i will do a deload workout and reduced cardio and eat at maintenance cals. at the end of the week i will resume my cut but probably shift back into a CKD to finish it out. i anticipate another 6-8weeks..
> 
> with it being a CKD i will only have one heavy day per week instead of EOD..


I think knowing when to give it a rest is one of the hardest things for us to do. We just don't want to stop! I know I have to convince myself sometimes to take a day off, that I am not slacking but actually doing myself a better deed in the long term. Takes as much (or even more) discipline to listen to our bodies to slow down on occasion as it does to get up and get on that bike at o-dark-thirty - in the rain. I'm still working on it...

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Yeah, this HIIT stuff is tough going for us old boys


tell me about it! im all beat up LOL..

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I think knowing when to give it a rest is one of the hardest things for us to do. We just don't want to stop! I know I have to convince myself sometimes to take a day off, that I am not slacking but actually doing myself a better deed in the long term. Takes as much (or even more) discipline to listen to our bodies to slow down on occasion as it does to get up and get on that bike at o-dark-thirty - in the rain. I'm still working on it...


yes braz i know what u mean man.. it hasnt been that difficult this time as i am tired and in pain.. not serious injury pain mind you, just nagging "hey u need to chill out!" pain.. LOL.. i guess at 38 (39 in october) the body cant take as much of a beating as it could at 25.. (dammit!)  :Smilie: 

looking forward to this CKD as it should really lean me out.. the high volume training will be a nice break from heavy low volume work. until im mid workout.. those depletion workouts are the most brutal thing ive ever done!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well the deload is going well. today is a lift day but i am off work so i may just wait until tomorrow to lift and rest again today  :Smilie: 

yesterday i did abs and 40mins cardio

eating about 2600-2800cals right now.. its nice.. since i quit fasting i wake up excited about my first meal. i pretty much roll right out of bed and into the kitchen to cook! 

today i had:

3whole eggs
1cup egg whites
4oz beef all cooked together

1cup oats + raisins + sugar free pancake syrup

2pieces raisin ezekiel bread (toast and good!)

12oz almond milk

big ass cup of coffee  :Smilie:

----------


## Zodiac82

man that sugar free syrup is a godsend lol...I put it on plain oatmeal the other day..talk about no need for sugar...
sugar free jam is where its at too  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Ur rite man.. Ive been using sugar free smuckers strawberry preserves and swapped for pancake syrup for a little change of pace..  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well tomorrow is the last day of my week off. i was gonna do a deload week in the gym but i decided to just do NOTHING all week so thats what ive done and i actually feel it has done me very well! ill be hitting UD2 tuesday in full stride. gonna run it 8 times and see whats what..  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well last day off winding to a close. looking forward to starting UD2 tomorrow. havent done it in like 1.5 yrs or so. i knew id eventually come back to it as it is a very effective diet. itll be a ncie change to do some depletion as i have always thought i looked my best when depleted. so for the next 3 days my diet will be:

1. 8oz chikn, 300g broc

2. 8oz chikn, 300g broc

3. 16oz tilapia, 300g broc

4. 8oz chikn, 2 whole eggs

1403cals, 250g pro, 63g carbs, 21g fat

----------


## --->>405<<---

dude glycogen depletion is fvcking brutal as fvck thats all i can say. ugh.. only managed 3 total sets per body part .. shoulda gotten 5-6.. i suppose if i couldve completed the entire workout on day 1 it wouldnt be much of a workout though.. if memory serves i will try to add a set per week so by then end of week 3 i should be where i need to be  :Smilie:

----------


## JinNtonic

OMG they have sugar free jam? Love the syrup...

----------


## --->>405<<---

> OMG they have sugar free jam? Love the syrup...


smuckers sugar free strawberry preserves is the best ive found..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well depletion workout #2 done man! it actually went better than the one yesterday, probably cuz i had more sleep and did it at lunch time which is when i typically lift. either way i completed 5 full circuits for upper body and 3 for lower body, so some improvement already. 

i already prefer to look at myself in the mirror today over yesterday.. funny how that works. im sure im down about 6 pounds due to water loss. i just look better without that dang water! 

now all i have to do is get thru tomorrow and then fri night/saturday will be the glorious 1300g carb load.  :Smilie:  (actually about 300-400g friday night and 1000g saturday..)

----------


## bikeral

Was reading though your log. Did you really get up to 20% bodyfat? Where are you at now?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Was reading though your log. Did you really get up to 20% bodyfat? Where are you at now?


got up to 18%

most current pic:

----------


## Back In Black

What

The fvck

Are you wearing?

Was that the weekend at DSM's?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> What
> 
> The fvck
> 
> Are you wearing?
> 
> Was that the weekend at DSM's?


LOL... sleeping shorts pulled up so my legs were in the pic.. pink.. yes.. im ok with that  :LOL: 

my wife makes the for me

----------


## bikeral

> got up to 18%
> 
> most current pic:


You are the cut master. What bodyfat are you at now?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> You are the cut master. What bodyfat are you at now?


Prob 14ish

Running ud2 and maybe test/var to 10ish..

----------


## redhawk01

Wow, where'd your gut go? Nice job!

----------


## --->>405<<---

notes:
1cup oats
2scoops whey
banana
banana
3servings capn crunch peanut butter
16oz milk
protein pancakes (whole recipe with banana mixd in- which was good )
protein pancakes (whole recipe)
banana
1serv frosted miniwheats
3serv honey bunches of oats
16oz milk
12 bagels
oatmeal pancakes (whole recipe)
3 cups oats
1whole egg, 7eggwhites, omelette with 6oz ground beef, peppers and onions

----------


## --->>405<<---

good cardio session this am fellas.. fasted:

5min warmup
10min HIIT
5min rest
25min moderate



4 working sets (6-12reps) stop 1 rep short of failure.. (70-85% 1rep max)

leg press/squat 2 x 6-12
leg curl 2 x 6-12
leg extension 1-2 x 6-12
leg curl 1-2 x 6-12
calf raise 3-4 x 6-12
flat bench 2 x 6-12
cable row 2 x 6-12
incline bench 1-2 x 6-12
pulldown or weighted chin 1-2 x 6-12
lat raise 2-3 x 6-12
bicep curl 2 x 6-12
tricep pushdown 2 x 6-12

can superset alternate bodyparts (flat bench/bent row etc..)1-2mins rest tween sets

----------


## --->>405<<---

carb load: 6017cals
220g pro
1244g carbs
46g fat

meal 1 (PWO) : 946/54p/171c/6f
1banana, 2 serv skim milk, 1serv frosted mini wheats, 2 serv honey bunches oats

meal2: 772/32p/153c/9f
1 banana, 2serv milk, 4serv sugar free jam, 1 1/2 cups oats

meal3; 888/33P/186C/5F
3 plain bagels, 4serv sugar free jam

meal4: 888/33p/186c/5f
3 plain bagels, 4serv sug free jam

meal5: 620/21p/128c/7f
2 plain bagels, 1cup oats, 4serv sug free jam

meal6: 643/22p/134c/2f
2oz barilla whole wheat angel hair pasta

meal7: 630/13p/134c/6f
1cup oats, 4serv sug free jam, 12oz sweet potato

meal8: 630/13p/134c/6f
1cup oats, 4serv sug free jam,

figure ill eat meals 1 & 2 on friday pm after HIT workout and meals 3-8 saturday

----------


## bikeral

No Captain Crunch?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> No Captain Crunch?


well the actual carb load meal choices arent finalized, i just copy and pasted the one i did in 2012 for a guide. i will modify it just wanted the numbers and stuff. u see keeping a log is a very good thing!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Well all carbless days done and about to do HIt workout. Then carb load.. Easy week.. 

Also did cardio at lunch:
5min warm up
15min hiit
25min moderate (140 HR)

----------


## Cuz

That's a really hard looking "14ish BF" lol damn I gotta long way to go. Sorry if I missed it bro but what are you weighing in at these days if you don't mind?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> That's a really hard looking "14ish BF" lol damn I gotta long way to go. Sorry if I missed it bro but what are you weighing in at these days if you don't mind?


today at the gym butt naked (not that u care  :LOL:  ) and carb depleted i weighed 206lbs.. and thx for the compliment man.. i feel like a fat tub of goo.. LMAO.. i do not do well with body fat ..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well id like to note here (and i cant remember if i did already and im too lazy to check) that having this log to refer back to is a great thing and i encourage everyone to log their stuff so you will be able to do the same thing. what prompted me to run the UD2 was i was scrolling thru a few days ago and found a pic where i looked very lean and the title of the pic was pre carbload so i knew it was a UD2 pic. this prompted me to decide to run the UD2. 

well i was goiong thru some stuff agaiin and realized i made an error there. that pic was actually taken at the end of week 1 of UD2 which means the results reflected in the pic were actually made on a different diet. so i did some more scrolling and found it was actually the first carb cycle i ran prior to UD2. 

i also got some insight into the type and frequency and intensity and duration of cardio i was doing back then too. 

my memory is freaking horrible so this has really helped me to see what worked for me then. 

anyways i will be leaving the Ud2 now and changing my diet once again to a standard carb cycle. it will probably be a 6 day cycle instead of 7 days.

low 
low
low
high
mod
mod

repeat

anyways i mainly wanted to demonstrate for u guys an excellent reason why these logs are so important! here ill be using a diet and workout i forgot about that i did 18 months ago.. if it werent for this log i wouldve probably not remembered. 

i think its safe to say i am no longer fat . i wanted to post this pic to mark where im starting this carb cycle. i figure maybe 4-8weeks and i should be where i wanna be. the fat im holding still u really cant see in the pic as it is in the lower back area. i also hope to lose some more belly fat.  :Smilie:

----------


## bikeral

I check my old logs from time to time to see where I was at. What weight at certain BF. etc.
Def good reference.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well got depletion done.. man it is freaking tuff! for some reason i always get pretty bad heartburn about 1/2 way thru it when i do those depletion workouts. im gonna have to remember to bring some tums in there with me from now on. nothing worse than training with freaking heartburn! 

i will say i had a good session though. i think i kind of backed off on my intensity there for a little while and it feels good to feel bad again!  :Smilie: 

for the next 4 days its all chicken, broccoli, fish, whole eggs.. that is the only 4 things i will consume between this am and saturday am. 1800cals worth..

----------


## krugerr

> for the next 4 days its all chicken, broccoli, fish, whole eggs.. that is the only 4 things i will consume between this am and saturday am. 1800cals worth..


I'm glad you shared this, I was going to ask if you wouldn't mind sharing a brief meal plan. I guess with those 4 ingredients, you're kinda limited lol.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I'm glad you shared this, I was going to ask if you wouldn't mind sharing a brief meal plan. I guess with those 4 ingredients, you're kinda limited lol.


makes things real simple  :Smilie: 

meal1:
8oz chikn, 300g broccoli

meal2:
8oz chickn, 300g broccoli

meal3:
16oz tilapia, 300g broccoli

meal4:
8oz chikn, 3 whole eggs

307g pro, 64g carb, 36g fat

----------


## krugerr

> makes things real simple 
> 
> meal1:
> 8oz chikn, 300g broccoli
> 
> meal2:
> 8oz chickn, 300g broccoli
> 
> meal3:
> ...


I'm sure Austinite posted a chicken+broccoli pie recipe, using just broccoli, chicken and eggs... 

That doesn't look too bad though mate, get some hot sauce or chilli powder and you're sorted! 

I'm restarting my carb cycle on Sept 30th. So I'm going to be following you closely for a while!

----------


## --->>405<<---

roger that there buddy  :Smilie:

----------


## krugerr

> roger that there buddy


Little fun fact. Did you know 'Roger' is a military term that stands for 'Received Order Given, Expect Results'.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Little fun fact. Did you know 'Roger' is a military term that stands for 'Received Order Given, Expect Results'.


i did not! pretty cool!  :Smilie:

----------


## krugerr

> i did not! pretty cool!


Another for you then! 

UK military, Navy salute with palm hidden, this is because back when ships were wooden, sailors would have dirty palms, often stained with oil and grease!
Army salute with palms showing, this is to prove that they aren't concealing a weapon. 

There's a couple more, there's a reason it's Royal Navy, Royal Marines, Royal Air Force, but only British Army. I'll save that for another day! Lol. 

OnTopic: noticed your pictures, you always cut up so quickly. 20%-14% made easy  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

Very cool man  :Smilie: 

Thx for compliment although it doesnt seem easy! And it seems slow! Ive actually been frustrated! 

Off to do depletion # 2 and then i think purchase GTA 5 (yeh baby yall know wat ill be doin for the rest of the day!)

----------


## krugerr

> Very cool man 
> 
> Thx for compliment although it doesnt seem easy! And it seems slow! Ive actually been frustrated!
> 
> Off to do depletion # 2 and then i think purchase GTA 5 (yeh baby yall know wat ill be doin for the rest of the day!)


You make it look easy, Iit makes me feel better to know that you don't find it that easy though bit reassures me that you're human  :Wink: 
I'm not so much into video games anymore. Enjoy it though!

----------


## --->>405<<---

well both depletion days done, now im just gonna run 2 cardio/abs days also with no carbs and then refeed on saturday at about 400g carbs.. instead of 1300g.. i think this should help my progress more. 

also i weighed in yesterday depleted post workout and was at 204.5 down from 206 last week so 1.5lbs lost is perfect! will be interested to see next week's weigh in .. hopefully ill be around 203lbs. 

can still fit into buckle 33" waist jeans so im good there  :Smilie: 

todays workout:

5min warm up
15min HIIT
25mins moderate
5min cool down

abs

----------


## bikeral

> well both depletion days done, now im just gonna run 2 cardio/abs days also with no carbs and then refeed on saturday at about 400g carbs.. instead of 1300g.. i think this should help my progress more. 
> 
> also i weighed in yesterday depleted post workout and was at 204.5 down from 206 last week so 1.5lbs lost is perfect! will be interested to see next week's weigh in .. hopefully ill be around 203lbs. 
> 
> can still fit into *buckle 33*" waist jeans so im good there 
> 
> todays workout:
> 
> 5min warm up
> ...


Just out of curiosity what is actual waist with tape measure? I wear size 33" levi's. They are big on me and my waist is closer to 38" with tape measure.

----------


## --->>405<<---

right now 34-35" depending.. lowest its been is 31 3/4" at 9%

----------


## Zodiac82

haha we know what we use that tape measure for sometimes  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> haha we know what we use that tape measure for sometimes


LOL.. uh huh.. 

well day 4 no carbs.. really no biggie. it has been pretty easy. yesterday i battled hunger a bit, not for carbs though. i added 4tbsp peanut butter to my daily intake and had it with my 3 whole eggs. it knocked it down fairly well. bumped me up to 2200cals which is still at about 400cal deficit for me. 

tomorrow i refeed. prob something like:

250g pro
400g carb
50g fat

ish  :Smilie: 

i will also do an upper body hypertrophy workout.. bench, shoulder press, row, chin, dead.. i will maintain short rest between super sets.. or maybe giant sets. 

sunday will be the same except lower body.. then off monday and repeat.

----------


## Back In Black

> LOL.. uh huh.. well day 4 no carbs.. really no biggie. it has been pretty easy. yesterday i battled hunger a bit, not for carbs though. i added 4tbsp peanut butter to my daily intake and had it with my 3 whole eggs. it knocked it down fairly well. bumped me up to 2200cals which is still at about 400cal deficit for me. tomorrow i refeed. prob something like: 250g pro 400g carb 50g fat ish  i will also do an upper body hypertrophy workout.. bench, shoulder press, row, chin, dead.. i will maintain short rest between super sets.. or maybe giant sets. sunday will be the same except lower body.. then off monday and repeat.


That's not a refeed mate, that's less than I eat every day, get some food down your neck man :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> That's not a refeed mate, that's less than I eat every day, get some food down your neck man


hey there he is!  :Smilie: 

yeh im just trying to keep cutting for a little while.. im pretty good but id like to really have no fat on the lower back and that is 10% for me. im prob about 12-13% right now.

----------


## Back In Black

> hey there he is!  yeh im just trying to keep cutting for a little while.. im pretty good but id like to really have no fat on the lower back and that is 10% for me. im prob about 12-13% right now.


Yeah, sucks doesn't it, I need to be sub 10% for that to happen.

So, cutting for another 6 weeks and then............?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Yeah, sucks doesn't it, I need to be sub 10% for that to happen.
> 
> So, cutting for another 6 weeks and then............?


not sure LOL  :LOL: 

i dang sure dont want to go from lean after cutting right into a bulk and gain fat! even if i do get bigger. i have figured out leanness > size for me. 

when im fat i feel like a failure. even if it was intentional. im also very impatient for the fat to be gone. its a real mindfvck..  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Perfect time for a cycle then buddy. 300-500 over maintenance with the correct macro ratio and you will be bigger and leaner, win win :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Perfect time for a cycle then buddy. 300-500 over maintenance with the correct macro ratio and you will be *bigger and leaner*, win win


definitely would be ideal!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i pulled a back muscle deadlifting yesterday. only doing 315 lbs too. smh.. slept like crap last night.. gonna take today and tomorrow completely off and see how i am tuesday for depletion. i think it should be better.. i hope!  :Smilie: 

maybe im coming down with something i dont know. been sore all over lately.. sore back, neck, shoulders, elbows.. smh..

----------


## Back In Black

> well i pulled a back muscle deadlifting yesterday. only doing 315 lbs too. smh.. slept like crap last night.. gonna take today and tomorrow completely off and see how i am tuesday for depletion. i think it should be better.. i hope!  maybe im coming down with something i dont know. been sore all over lately.. sore back, neck, shoulders, elbows.. smh..


damn man, you have my empathy with your back :Frown:  

Have you been eating carbs this weekend?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> damn man, you have my empathy with your back 
> 
> Have you been eating carbs this weekend?


thx buddy.. yeh it didnt hurt when i did it and really wasnt too bad until after i went to sleep. today i have had a fair amount of walking to do and it has "warmed up" and im very confident it is just muscular. 

yes ive been eating carbs since friday night. had about 150 fri nite, 400 yesterday, 200 today.. definitely AM leaner after this second carb cycle week. going pretty well except for these other symptoms. 

i posted a thread in the HRT section outlining it better..

----------


## bikeral

Hey bud. Hope the back gets better fast.

----------


## RaginCajun

Damn man sorry to hear about ya back

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Hey bud. Hope the back gets better fast.





> Damn man sorry to hear about ya back


thx dudes.. about 50% better already.. slept a bit better last night. still hurts but not as bad. gonna take today off too and be ready for depletion tomorrow i hope. making decent progress in the mirror, have some good momentum! 

id also like to note: 4 days no carbs, 1 high, 2 moderate seems to be a very effective split for me. id forgotten how effective it is.

----------


## --->>405<<---

and im back! im back! im back in the saddle again! 

did 40 mins cardio and abs which included hanging leg raises and cable wood chops.. the 'ole back is on the mend!  :Smilie:

----------


## Bodacious

Hey man on your no carbs/ low carb days what do you eat?

Give me some ideas please. Thanks

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Hey man on your no carbs/ low carb days what do you eat?
> 
> Give me some ideas please. Thanks


if ur looking for tasty u came to the wrong place. i suppose if i worked at it i could create some tasty meals with no carbs but for right now i am eating purely for results on those days so:

24 oz chicken breast (boneless breast chopped and sauteed)
16 oz fish (baked in oven)
900g broccoli (steamed with salt and pepper)
3 whole hard boiled eggs 

about 1800cals.. 300 ish pro 60g carb (good bit of fiber) 40-50 ish fat (off the top of my head)

----------


## gearbox

> Hey man on your no carbs/ low carb days what do you eat?
> 
> Give me some ideas please. Thanks


oh low carb days its always fish and chicken...

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^depletion # 1 with slightly sore back.. Wish me luck!  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

> ^^depletion # 1 with slightly sore back.. Wish me luck!


Good luck. 2 years old on Saturday buddy :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Good luck. 2 years old on Saturday buddy


well it went ok. i stopped a bit short cuz my back got tired and as a result sore. managed about 75% of it though and did not have to go any lighter. 

2 yrs on saturday? wow.. what a trip it has been! amazing how much ive grown in my knowledge of the BB lifestyle since then.  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well the old back is a little sore today after yesterday. not terrible. i have another depletion to do today as well. i will take it a bit more easily i think. mainly picking the 45lb plates up off the ground is the hardest part.. and putting them back down. 

i bought a heating pad and some mineral ice.. also taking motrin/ibuprofen.. definitely muscular though.

----------


## --->>405<<---

abs/cardio only today.. looking forward to some carbs tomorrow night. last week was easy probably cuz my body had plenty of carbs floating around, this week not so much.. also been a bit hungry at night. as a result i went over my originally intended cals by a couple hundred in the form of peanut butter. still not higher than 2200 ish for the day which is still at a deficit. 

gotta say i have not been so gung ho here on this cut. i guess im just tired of cutting and having to drop body fat... sometimes i wish i could just say fvck it and get fat.. LOL.. (but i cant).. well i can, but i cant stay that way.

not quit lifting, mind you, just not care about my bf so much..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i feel a little better today than yesterday regarding this cut. its funny the emotional highs and lows that go along with caloric deficits. (  :Smilie:  )

abs/cardio again today and then i get to have a low country boil tonight.. thats gonna be good! in case yall were wondering what that is here is a pic: (its also called frogmore stew because of the town it supposedly originated in).


http://www.discoversouthcarolina.com...w/default.aspx

----------


## RaginCajun

> well i feel a little better today than yesterday regarding this cut. its funny the emotional highs and lows that go along with caloric deficits. (  ) abs/cardio again today and then i get to have a low country boil tonight.. thats gonna be good! in case yall were wondering what that is here is a pic: (its also called frogmore stew because of the town it supposedly originated in). http://www.discoversouthcarolina.com...w/default.aspx



Reminds me of home!

Looks delicious

----------


## bikeral

> well i feel a little better today than yesterday regarding this cut. its funny the emotional highs and lows that go along with caloric deficits. (  )
> 
> abs/cardio again today and then i get to have a low country boil tonight.. thats gonna be good! in case yall were wondering what that is here is a pic: (its also called frogmore stew because of the town it supposedly originated in).
> 
> 
> South Carolina Frogmore Stew



Glad your spirits are up. Have a great weekend and enjoy that country boil.

----------


## mockery

curious why you are not doing hit and fasting this time around?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> curious why you are not doing hit and fasting this time around?


it stopped working.. also got tired of it..

----------


## mockery

what are you thoughts on whats happening with your body with the consistent binging then back dieting? each time you gain weight is it less then the previous time?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> what are you thoughts on whats happening with your body with the consistent binging then back dieting? each time you gain weight is it less then the previous time?


hmm.. not really. depends how long i go before cutting again. this time i went up to 18% body fat and it has been kind of a slow process getting the fat off. im almost where im comfortable again.. well, im comfortable but not saticfied.. im almost where im satisfied again.. prob around 12% right now. another 2% to go and ill be good.. that should nt take more than 4-6 weeks i hope.. thatll put me around 16-18 weeks to cut from 18% to 10%.. 

i hope not to let myself go that far again...

----------


## RaginCajun

So what your saying is, no more cruises/vacations?

Your wife ain't gonna be happy!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> So what your saying is, no more cruises/vacations?
> 
> Your wife ain't gonna be happy!


haha.. no im definitely NOT saying that!  :Wink:  i will, however, be more diligent in limiting the length of my vacation from my diet! this time it was 2 months! instead of 2 weeks like it shoulda been!

----------


## RaginCajun

> haha.. no im definitely NOT saying that!  i will, however, be more diligent in limiting the length of my vacation from my diet! this time it was 2 months! instead of 2 weeks like it shoulda been!


haha, i just pickin!

how was the shrimp boil?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> haha, i just pickin!
> 
> how was the shrimp boil?


excellent! ate a lot of stuff. fave was def the crab cakes! covered in my home made tartar sauce.. also had pecan pie tarts, key lime bars, and dark chocolate iced brownies! (my wife loves to bake and entertain LOL)..

----------


## bikeral

> excellent! ate a lot of stuff. fave was def the crab cakes! covered in my home made tartar sauce.. also had pecan pie tarts, key lime bars, and dark chocolate iced brownies! (my wife loves to bake and entertain LOL)..


Making me hungry. Love pecan pie, key lime, brownies.....

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Making me hungry. Love pecan pie, key lime, brownies.....


LOL... it was good buddy! key lime is one of my faves now!

----------


## RaginCajun

> excellent! ate a lot of stuff. fave was def the crab cakes! covered in my home made tartar sauce.. also had pecan pie tarts, key lime bars, and dark chocolate iced brownies! (my wife loves to bake and entertain LOL)..



Does she have a younger sister?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Does she have a younger sister?


Lol.. Actually yes! (Married but i wont tell  :Wink:  )

----------


## --->>405<<---

well guys i woke up this morning and actually almost liked what i saw in the mirror!  :Smilie:  i can tell you i do NOT do well with a mid section that is not tight.. i will strive to never let that happen again. it is a compulsion i believe.. kind of a pain in the ass really.

----------


## Bodacious

Hey man when you got back up to 18%. I think you said you took 2 months off. Is that eating whatever you want and not working out? I started a thread in other section of forum about taking time off. I have went sun through tue 3 days not working out. Feel guilty as heck and fat as freak. lol.. But I know for sure its been prob 3 years with out a break and was getting burned out. Beside when on vacation( still do sit ups, run. push ups) when on vacation. Guess my question is do you ever just take a brake from it all beside when your on vacation? 

Thanks a lot for the help man.

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^ during the 2 months i didnt do any cardio and on the days i followed my proper dietary food choices i over ate.. the other days i just ate whatever the heck i wanted.. i lifted 3-4 days per week.. 

to answer ur question: NO i do not ever take a break from all of it. not more than a day or 2 anyways..  :Smilie:

----------


## Bodacious

OK thanks. So I better get my butt back at it tomorrow then shouldn't I? Its been 3 days. Lol.... Feel OK. Well beside feeling fat...

----------


## --->>405<<---

> OK thanks. So I better get my butt back at it tomorrow then shouldn't I? Its been 3 days. Lol.... Feel OK. Well beside feeling fat...


haha.. well it takes a fair amount more than 3 days to do what i did. i actually started my diet back several times but just couldnt get any momentum.. id do ok for a day or 2 and say screw it and have a cheeseburger or a bacon egg and cheese sandwich with hashbrowns! i turn around good and 2 months have gone by and im 18% body fat.. it was NOT worth it!

----------


## bikeral

> ^^ during the 2 months i didnt do any cardio and on the days i followed my proper dietary food choices i over ate.. the other days i just ate whatever the heck i wanted.. i lifted 3-4 days per week.. 
> 
> to answer ur question: NO i do not ever take a break from all of it. not more than a day or 2 anyways..


Thats about how I was up to 21%. Always trained 4-5 days week. But did no cardio and ate way too much crap on weekends.

----------


## Bodacious

Know how you feel on the weekends. I do good during the week. Weekends I eat. Lol.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Thats about how I was up to 21%. Always trained 4-5 days week. But did no cardio and ate way too much crap on weekends.


yeh eating a lot and no cardio = fat! !  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well guys just when yall thought 'ole 405 was getting dull and there was nothing else of much interest going on in here the plot twists and thickens once again! 

turns out my wife has bad migraines and she has been wanting to try keto for epileptic people to combat the headaches because theres a relationship between the 2 and she has petitioned my assistance. 

i have been curious about running a proper ketogenic diet since i first heard of them and have run a style of CKD but im not sure if i ever achieved proper ketosis. i always maintained carbs around 65+ g per day. well i believe in the spirit of helping her and satisfying my nagging curiosity i am venturing down the road of the ketogenic diet. 

i have not decided specifically if im gonna run a TKD (targeted keto diet) or a CKD (cyclical keto diet) yet but i will be letting yall know. i am currently about 125pages into lyle mc donalds "the ketogenic diet" and i must say i am impressed with the potential this diet may have. 

i have often thought i look and feel my best totally depleted of carbs and i also think my body does not respond very well to carbs in the diet. i am curious to see how i will fare running a proper keto diet with my macros set from what it looks like approx:

2200cals
160g pro
10g carbs
168g fat

i have found a new love: homemade coconut butter!!! ahh!! u gotta try this stuff guys. 

get a coconut and shred the meat and put it into a food processor and turn it on for about 20 minutes. after that let it sit for a while (couple hours) to let the oil come out and then run again for about another 20minutes. make sure u have a tiny food processor and/or there is minimal empty space in the processor so the stuff churns properly. 

it is the freaking BOMB diggity! 

i will keep yall updated with this keto thing. i may start as early as monday.

----------


## RaginCajun

Sounds good man and I know you will follow it.

Hope it helps with your wife's headaches!

----------


## V-ROID

It's good to try different diets just to keep your body guessing. Things that work great short term can become less effective over time. Not a chance in hell I could go keto without eating meat but will be popping in to monitor your results. I love coconut in all forms and will give your recipe a shot. Question: After the first settle do you drain the oil before processing again? I have a Blendtec so I think I can cut the time to a few minutes. Good luck to you and more importantly your wife. Migraines are the worst and too many things can trigger them so finding the true cause can take a long time.

----------


## Back In Black

Ha ha ha, after everything you ever said about keto diets :Wink:  you know I'm a big believer in trying out different plans to see what works best for you. I hated that depletion workout on a ckd. I also hated the state of my dishwasher after all that extra fat:/

Has your Mrs had her headaches analysed? It is true that keto diets do help epileptics minimise symptoms.

PM me your address mate, I have a number of spare ketostix I will send them over to you :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

LOL never say "never" right?  :Smilie: 

who knows it may be what i need. we'll see! more importantly i hope itll help my wife's headaches. she has been to a ouple neurologists. they dont know what the cause is.. shes run low carbs before and gone without them so hopefully this will work. she has a lot of food and other type allergies. 

PM sent

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> LOL never say "never" right? 
> 
> who knows it may be what i need. we'll see! more importantly i hope itll help my wife's headaches. she has been to a ouple neurologists. they dont know what the cause is.. shes run low carbs before and gone without them so hopefully this will work. she has a lot of food and other type allergies.
> 
> PM sent


Yoga seems to help some ppl. Idk.

Hope your wife finds relief via diet. It's worth a try!

----------


## --->>405<<---

in case anyone is wondering i have not started the keto diet yet.. i also have been having puter probs where it wont let me access this little box to type messages which is in part why i havent posted in here. still running 4 days low 1 high 2 moderate diet.. kind of waffling as my wife thinks she may have discovered another solution to her headaches besides keto. i still might give it a try though.. we'll see..  :Smilie:

----------


## bikeral

Wondering what you are up to. Still just dropping BF?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Wondering what you are up to. Still just dropping BF?


yeh kind of.. it is a slow process at this point. i have been eating more fat on low carb days and i think i have slowed my progress over the last 2 weeks  :Smilie:  i am not fat anymore and just have a bit on lower back/love handle area which is making me not as diligent about getting rid of it LOL.. it seems to be a constant battle with bf% maybe because i prefer to be lean and my body prefers me to be fat!

----------


## bikeral

> yeh kind of.. it is a slow process at this point. i have been eating more fat on low carb days and i think i have slowed my progress over the last 2 weeks  i am not fat anymore and just have a bit on lower back/love handle area which is making me not as diligent about getting rid of it LOL.. it seems to be a constant battle with bf% maybe because *i prefer to be lean and my body prefers me to be fat!*


I'm with you on that. Hope you are progressing buddy.

----------


## --->>405<<---

Good ole page 2, hadnt been there in awhile  :Smilie: 

In any event my fat loss seems to have resumed a bit thank God! Plateaus suck!!

Ive dropped carbs and cals a bit and switched pretty much all cardio to intervals. Doing them 5-6 days per week. 

When i do them pwo i do 11 sets 30/60 and when on a cardio only day i do 15 harder sets 30/60.. 

The main reason im posting now is i did 140 DB's on flat bench today for 5 unassisted reps.  :Smilie:

----------


## RaginCajun

140s is really pushing it!

----------


## Back In Black

> 140s is really pushing it!


Show off isn't he?!

405 remind me to get stronger before you come visit :Wink:

----------


## Tron3219

> Good ole page 2, hadnt been there in awhile 
> 
> In any event my fat loss seems to have resumed a bit thank God! Plateaus suck!!
> 
> Ive dropped carbs and cals a bit and switched pretty much all cardio to intervals. Doing them 5-6 days per week.
> 
> When i do them pwo i do 11 sets 30/60 and when on a cardio only day i do 15 harder sets 30/60..
> 
> The main reason im posting now is i did 140 DB's on flat bench today for 5 unassisted reps.


Almost to big boy weights! Jk good job 405

----------


## --->>405<<---

> 140s is really pushing it!


yeh the tuffest thing is getting them into position!  :Smilie: 



> Show off isn't he?!
> 
> 405 remind me to get stronger before you come visit


will do buddy  :Smilie: 



> Almost to big boy weights! Jk good job 405


LOL.. good to see u there man. ill be doing the 150's maybe next week. that is the heaviest they have at that gym..

----------


## --->>405<<---

well along with GB I am running keto starting today.

should be about 275g pro, 110g fat, trace carbs..  :Smilie: 

we will see! about 12%ish bf and 200lbs

----------


## RaginCajun

curious to see how this goes for you

i know you are very disciplined when it comes to your diet so looking forward to this!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> curious to see how this goes for you
> 
> i know you are very disciplined when it comes to your diet so looking forward to this!


Thx cajun me too man  :Smilie: 

Did legs today. Had kind of a crappy workout. Back was bothering me a touch so i just squatted 315 x 15 for 4 sets . Did a little leg extension and curls and was out of there. 

Also only got like 5hrs sleep last night. Excuses excuses!  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well keto day 2. breakfast today: egg salad, thanks to my man GBrice for the idea! some of yall might think eww gross, egg salad for breakfast, but i crossed the lunch for breakfast meal barrier long ago.  :Smilie: 

looking pretty lean in the mirror today as well! always a good thing  :Smilie:

----------


## tarmyg

Nice to see you doing Keto, let me know how you feel about your energy levels in a week or so!

Thanks
~T

"I stay mostly by myself, but it's OK, they know me here"
Follow my personal story here: Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com Forums - An honest journey - Blogs

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Nice to see you doing Keto, let me know how you feel about your energy levels in a week or so!
> 
> Thanks
> ~T
> 
> "I stay mostly by myself, but it's OK, they know me here"
> Follow my personal story here: Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com Forums - An honest journey - Blogs


yeh will do, but it will be A CKD with a refeed every 7 days. (more than likely)

----------


## tarmyg

> yeh will do, but it will be A CKD with a refeed every 7 days. (more than likely)


Not sure about the entire plan but I would not refeed for the first 14-21 days unless you have done Keto before, just my opinion.


Thanks
~T


"I stay mostly by myself, but it's OK, they know me here"
Follow my personal story here: Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com Forums - An honest journey - Blogs

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Not sure about the entire plan but I would not refeed for the first 14-21 days unless you have done Keto before, just my opinion.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> ~T
> 
> 
> "I stay mostly by myself, but it's OK, they know me here"
> Follow my personal story here: Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com Forums - An honest journey - Blogs


first time running keto. curious to ur logic? in order to get into deep ketosis? i also train 4 days per week and do cardio 5-6 and i prefer HIIT (which i know is typically not run while in keto and partially contributing to the notion of refeed every 7 days.)

----------


## --->>405<<---

*KETO DIET PROTOCOL*

just so ill have it here for future reference im gonna put my current diet protocol and workout regimen:

train 3 day split mon, tues, wed, upper body only circuit friday (energy levels and body permitting)

mon: legs

tues: chest/shoulders/ABS/PWO HIIT

wed: back/bis/PWO HIIT

thu: cardio only (HIIT)/ABS

fri: upper circuit style/ PWO HIIT

sat: cardio only (HIIT)/ABS

sun: off

CARDIO: id like to note here the HIIT every day is my intent, i havent actually achieved it yet while running CKD so it may get modified. on days where my schedule permits ill do HIIT PWO, on days where it does not ill do it when i can. 

PWO HIIT = 11 sets 30/60

CARDIO ONLY HIIT = 17 sets 30/60

DIET:
days 1-6
275-300g pro
>30 carbs (trace only)
110-150g fat

REFEED: 
250g pro
300-500g carbs (will play around with this number)
50-60 fat (whatever is in my sources, no supplemental)

Current stats: 202lbs 12% (ish) BF

----------


## RaginCajun

i was awaiting your plan! i know how you are so i was expecting just this!

can't wait to see where you take this!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> i was awaiting your plan! i know how you are so i was expecting just this!
> 
> can't wait to see where you take this!


LOL.. how i am huh??  :LOL: 

should be interesting buddy! today is day 3 and no carb cravings at all. didnt have any yesterday or the day before either.

----------


## kelkel

> LOL.. how i am huh?? 
> 
> should be interesting buddy! today is day 3 and no carb cravings at all. didnt have any yesterday or the day before either.


I'd die.

----------


## tarmyg

> first time running keto. curious to ur logic? in order to get into deep ketosis? i also train 4 days per week and do cardio 5-6 and i prefer HIIT (which i know is typically not run while in keto and partially contributing to the notion of refeed every 7 days.)


Purely anecdotal evidence shows between 2-14 days to enter Ketosis so I was trying to be on the safe side :-)

~T

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Purely anecdotal evidence shows between 2-14 days to enter Ketosis so I was trying to be on the safe side :-)
> 
> ~T


Gotcha. I appreciate it man  :Smilie:  i will gibe it some thought. Ill be refeeding 300-500g carvs every week though so i dint know if ill grt into ietosis that well anyways. I will def be eating <30g carbs though so that should help me lean out which is te most important thjngto me!  :Smilie:

----------


## Zodiac82

> Gotcha. I appreciate it man  i will gibe it some thought. Ill be refeeding 300-500g carvs every week though so i dint know if ill grt into ietosis that well anyways. I will def be eating <30g carbs though so that should help me lean out which is te most important thjngto me!


jeewiz...405 what were u gettin some while typing this?? lol...(its like playin Scrabble with ur words)

just curious hoes ur energy throughout the day...primarily when ur workin out.. do u feel u have more..less.or just enough to push through ut

----------


## --->>405<<---

[QUOTE=cancer82;6730216]


> jeewiz...405 what were u gettin some while typing this?? lol...(its like playin Scrabble with ur words)


haha sorry buddy. since downloading ios 7 my phone sucks and is very slow when i type. a lot of times i have finished typing the entire sentence before the first letter shows up on the scerrn. ill actually type the whole thing and then watch the letters make it look like its typing itself! obviously when there are mistakes i try to catch them but sometimes they get by.  :Smilie: 




> just curious *hoes* ur energy throughout the day...primarily when ur workin out.. do u feel u have more..less.or just enough to push through *ut*


^^looks like u make some mistakes of ur own!  :Wink: 

actually right now i feel pretty good. i will explain why (in part) i think that is in my next post. i would liek to note ive always done well with little carbs.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well i have not been extremely diligent with my portioning and decided today to just run what i have been eating for the most part to see where im falling in line with my intended macros. i came in well over! not counting the dark chocolate and prok skins here are my daily totals:

2983cals
265g pro
194g fat
64g carbs (42g fiber = 22g net)

got another 250 cals from the pork skins and about 200cals or so from the chocolate (22g fat)

this is putting me around 3500cals and 230g fat! BUT i think im still dropping body fat. im gonna keep running like this and see what happens cuz TBH im liking the heck out of it!

i tell u , those fat calories add up quick!

----------


## tarmyg

What out for the PISS syndrome also:




> Post-Induction Stall Syndrome (PISS): Water and glycogen find a new balance and this causes a stall or even weight gain, which lasts for a week or two. Relax, PISS is both normal and temporary.


Thanks
~T

"I stay mostly by myself, but it's OK, they know me here"
Follow my personal story here: Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com Forums - An honest journey - Blogs

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^noted. 

like i said im gonna run with this diet eating probably more fat than originally intended to see if i can get away with it just because of the lack of carbs. im not gonna go crazy but the absence of carbs makes me feel like im losing body fat even though my calories are high. 

obviously this goes against logic to a certain extent, but maybe this could help me re-comp. who knows, i think its worth a shot. this whole time i have been struggling to bring calories down to where they probably should be to get fast results, but i just dont want to be hungry and that desire is beating the desire to rapidly drop body fat.

----------


## Back In Black

For what it's worth I think your protein was too high and your fat too low in your original plan.

----------


## tarmyg

> *---> SNIPP* but i just dont want to be hungry and that desire is beating the desire to rapidly drop body fat.


This is EXACTLY where I am at! Not enjoying you being hungry but feeling good at not being alone in this dilemma.

~T

----------


## --->>405<<---

> For what it's worth I think your protein was too high and your fat too low in your original plan.


yes sir buddy i gathered that from ur posting in the other thread. it is the palumbo keto diet. it is a different method. whether or not ketosis is achievable for all with the macro split i dont know but figd itd be worth a shot. i think i can derive some good simply from the lack of carbs. 

standard keto 30/70 split i think will just not be enuff volume of food for me. i really dont "feel like" being hungry if i can avoid it. if this doesnt work then i may consider being hungry and running the proper 30/70 split..  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> This is EXACTLY where I am at! Not enjoying you being hungry but feeling good at not being alone in this dilemma.
> 
> ~T


if i can get away with not being hungry and still drop bf% im good with it even if it takes longer!

----------


## Back In Black

> yes sir buddy i gathered that from ur posting in the other thread. it is the palumbo keto diet. it is a different method. whether or not ketosis is achievable for all with the macro split i dont know but figd itd be worth a shot. i think i can derive some good simply from the lack of carbs. 
> 
> standard keto 30/70 split i think will just not be enuff volume of food for me. i really dont "feel like" being hungry if i can avoid it. if this doesnt work then i may consider being hungry and running the proper 30/70 split..


I know his is a little different. Fat satiates me more than protein does. The downside of 30% is, of course! minimal protein because of your low cals.

I just ate this buddy, after a chicken breast and Brussel sprouts, I think I'm still hungry too!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I know his is a little different. Fat satiates me more than protein does. The downside of 30% is, of course! minimal protein because of your low cals.
> 
> *I just ate this buddy*, after a chicken breast and Brussel sprouts, I think I'm still hungry too!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7zfnbdyAW8

----------


## --->>405<<---

well according to the keto urine strip im somewhere in the 15 range in terms of ketone bodies  :Smilie: 

this is day 5. not bad considering how much food ive been eating.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well day 6 no carbs and im pretty much ok with it. yesterday i got thru my circuit style upper body training followed by 12 sets 30/60 intervals with not too much problem once i got going. 

for the most part i really dont feel any different than i did before starting this diet. tonight we have a "unbirthday" for our daughter where we will celebrate her birthday (which is in february) and announce to her that for her actual 16th birthday we will be taking her on a cruise. 

i tell u, as far as kids go shes got it made. she goes to school at home, has cool parents, gets to ride horses a couple days per week and go on great vacations. i hope it isnt too much of a shock for her when she gets out into the "real world" LOL.. 

so tonite i have unborthday cake and tommorrow is refeed day. TBH i really dont care about eating either! im over carbs for the time being.. 

i think i may try to reel my calories in a bit this coming week.

----------


## Back In Black

I'm gonna home school my daughter too. She won't be allowed out the house on her own until she is 30.

Do you have any irritability or concentration issues? A lot of people report it though I coped pretty well all around on keto.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I'm gonna home school my daughter too. She won't be allowed out the house on her own until she is 30.
> 
> *Do you have any irritability or concentration issues*? A lot of people report it though I coped pretty well all around on keto.


no i dont think so no. like i said before starting this, i do very well with low carbs so being in keto i suppose makes it even easier. my biggest obstacle at this point is gonna be bringing cals down to 2000-2200. this week ive been eating 3000cals every day. 

i think i even in spite of this have leaned out ever so slightly. i dont want to waste this diet though eating at maintenance (or slightly above) ive just had a tuff time motivating myself to tolerate hunger! 

on a positive note i ordered my motorcycle gear which should be in next week and 2 weeks from monday (or so) i should be able to acquire my first harley davidson!  :0jackson:  : Sport11:  :AaAuto26:  :Dancing Banana:  :Party Smiley TAP:

----------


## mockery

> well i have not been extremely diligent with my portioning and decided today to just run what i have been eating for the most part to see where im falling in line with my intended macros. i came in well over! not counting the dark chocolate and prok skins here are my daily totals:
> 
> 2983cals
> 265g pro
> 194g fat
> 64g carbs (42g fiber = 22g net)
> 
> got another 250 cals from the pork skins and about 200cals or so from the chocolate (22g fat)
> 
> ...


Glad to see you might be coming over to the side of being pro fats, fats are a beautiful thing!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Glad to see you might be coming over to the side of being pro fats, fats are a beautiful thing!


yes i do enjoy eating them. they also make no/low carb much easier!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

*REFEED DIET:*

meal1:
2 whole eggs, cup egg whites, 2 servings honey bunches of oats, 1 serving frosted mini wheats, raisins (40g), almond milk, 1 cup oats, 40g raisins, 3 pieces cinnamon raisin ezekiel bread with grape jelly (full sugar here  :Smilie:  )

meal2:
pound beef, cup oats, 40g raisins

meal3:
pound tilapia, cup oats, 40g raisins

meal4:
250g blueberries, 250g cottage cheese

3357cals
301g pro
416g carbs
53g fat

----------


## --->>405<<---

ive also decided to dedicate myself to my cALORIC goals for the week. the way i intend to do this is by having 3 designated meals at 3 designated times. this will eliminate the spoonful (or 3) of almond butter here, and 2 or 3 pieces of chocolate there stuff thats been going on. 

0800 meal 1

1400 meal 2

2000 meal 3

thats it! 

we will see  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well first week of keto was not too bad. this week is the time to really implement the macros and make sure i stay on track with them. last week i went well over on intended cals and macros, but it was a bit of an adjustment to see how i did with high fat and no carbs. 

this week will be different. will report back.  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

feeling a little fat and jiggly today. may be holding some water from the refeed. might go a bit lower on carbs next time. while i enjoy eating carbs,i really dont like the way they make me feel (fat and holding water). i feel a lot better depleted (leaner). 

will be interested to see how this 10 days straight of no carbs does. 

got a pulled muscle in my back. its down on the hip, right where u would give urself a glute shot. hurts when i do squats, mainly when i lock out at the top of the rep. when im squatted down im fine. it also is a nagging pain the rest of the day as well. i may discontinue squats for a couple weeks to let it heal, as that is the exercise that seems to perpetuate the injury. it isnt debilitating or anything.

----------


## bikeral

Here is a pic of the fatboy from this morning.

----------


## --->>405<<---

^^sweet bro! looks like u have the Vance and Hines Big Radius exhaust? (we may have discussed this already, i have a terrible memory)  :Smilie: 

its looking clean too AL!

----------


## Back In Black

Injuries and being jiggly aren't good. Thankfully I am only suffering from a little bit of jiggliness at the moment (too many holiday buffet meals).

Watch the back kidda, it's important :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Injuries and being jiggly aren't good. Thankfully I am only suffering from a little bit of jiggliness at the moment (too many holiday buffet meals).
> 
> Watch the back kidda, it's important


hey buddy. guess ur still on holiday? hope u are hiving fun!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

i suppose i should note here i put a deposit on the motorcycle yesterday, so it is no longer available to anyone else! i also finalized the numbers as well. i managed to save $1200 so i thought i did ok. didnt try to be super aggressive. 

should pick it up december 2 or 3rd.. hopefully  :Smilie:

----------


## bikeral

Hell yea buddy. Enjoy

----------


## tarmyg

> i suppose i should note here i put a deposit on the motorcycle yesterday, so it is no longer available to anyone else! i also finalized the numbers as well. i managed to save $1200 so i thought i did ok. didnt try to be super aggressive. 
> 
> should pick it up december 2 or 3rd.. hopefully


Had to sell my R1 when I left SoCal 3 years ago. Almost cried ;-) Happy for you!

Thanks
~T


"I stay mostly by myself, but it's OK, they know me here"
Follow my personal story here: Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com Forums - An honest journey - Blogs

----------


## GirlyGymRat

I noticed you displaying net carbs. My gf say the fiber carbs are poo away so not relevant in the big picture. is net carbs MORE significant then total carbs since you are no longer eating very many? 




> well i have not been extremely diligent with my portioning and decided today to just run what i have been eating for the most part to see where im falling in line with my intended macros. i came in well over! not counting the dark chocolate and prok skins here are my daily totals:
> 
> 2983cals
> 265g pro
> 194g fat
> 64g carbs (42g fiber = 22g net)
> 
> got another 250 cals from the pork skins and about 200cals or so from the chocolate (22g fat)
> 
> ...

----------


## tarmyg

> I noticed you displaying net carbs. My gf say the fiber carbs are poo away so not relevant in the big picture. is net carbs MORE significant then total carbs since you are no longer eating very many?


This is correct! A lot to work keeping it separated however.

Thanks
~T


"I stay mostly by myself, but it's OK, they know me here"
Follow my personal story here: Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com Forums - An honest journey - Blogs

----------


## GirlyGymRat

^^^ true that. myfitnesspal helps cuz displays fiber carbs separate  :Smilie:  




> This is correct! A lot to work keeping it separated however.
> 
> Thanks
> ~T
> 
> 
> "I stay mostly by myself, but it's OK, they know me here"
> Follow my personal story here: Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com Forums - An honest journey - Blogs

----------


## --->>405<<---

:0jackson:  :Party Smiley TAP: Merry Christmas to me!!  :0jackson:  :Party Smiley TAP:

----------


## --->>405<<---

and another  :Smilie:

----------


## bikeral

> Merry Christmas to me!!


Nice bike brother. Enjoy and ride the hell out of it. You will like the 103 and 6 speed.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Nice bike brother. Enjoy and ride the hell out of it. You will like the 103 and 6 speed.


thanks man. i am enjoying it! already been 100 miles or so. have to go back to work tomorrow  :Frown: 

maybe get to ride on thanksgiving  :Smilie:

----------


## tarmyg

How are the energy levels for you while on Keto?

Thanks
~T

"I stay mostly by myself, but it's OK, they know me here"
Follow my personal story here: Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com Forums - An honest journey - Blogs

----------


## --->>405<<---

> How are the energy levels for you while on Keto?


so far theyre fine. a little less "umph" when training and PWO intervals can be tuff but im tuff!  :Wink:

----------


## RaginCajun

nice bike bud! 

Merry Christmas to you!

Enjoy it!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> nice bike bud! 
> 
> Merry Christmas to you!
> 
> Enjoy it!


thanks! right back atcha pal!  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well back on track day 2 of keto after thanksgiving. ate a good bit for a few days this year and havent been to the gym since wednesday of last week so i have to get it back into gear, which i intend to do today!  :Smilie:

----------


## bikeral

Hey pal just checking in. Whats good?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Hey pal just checking in. Whats good?


whats up there buddy? had a good ride today  :Smilie:  was 66 and sunny. other than that just plugging along. dont even know if id say im cutting right now. really just running no carbs to see what happens but my cals are only like 300 deficit or something. 

this dang back pull thing is kicked in again after doing squats today. looks like the squat is going on the back burner for at least a month! it doesnt feel serious, just a nagging problem.

----------


## bikeral

> whats up there buddy? had a good ride today  was 66 and sunny. other than that just plugging along. dont even know if id say im cutting right now. really just running no carbs to see what happens but my cals are only like 300 deficit or something. 
> 
> this dang back pull thing is kicked in again after doing squats today. looks like the squat is going on the back burner for at least a month! it doesnt feel serious, just a nagging problem.


Good idea to back off I know you squat pretty heavy. Stay safe.

----------


## bikeral

Hey buddy, you are the master cutter. What BF% loss do you think is a good number to lose every week. I seem to be in the -.5% on a good week. Does that sound right?

Also I remember some dude a while back giving you all kinds of Ab advice. Think he was banned. Did that work out for you or was he full of shit?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Hey buddy, you are the master cutter. What BF% loss do you think is a good number to lose every week. I seem to be in the -.5% on a good week. Does that sound right?
> 
> Also I remember some dude a while back giving you all kinds of Ab advice. Think he was banned. Did that work out for you or was he full of shit?


.5% is ideal.. excellent work  :Smilie: 

ab advice was very solid actually! now i do hanging leg raises and variations in the hanging position, cable wood chops (incline, decline, neutral), crunches with medicine ball, seated decline twists with medicine ball.. 

occasionally i practice the ab vacuum (google it and the wood chops (cable) )..

----------


## bikeral

> .5% is ideal.. excellent work 
> 
> ab advice was very solid actually! now i do hanging leg raises and variations in the hanging position, cable wood chops (incline, decline, neutral), crunches with medicine ball, seated decline twists with medicine ball.. 
> 
> occasionally i practice the ab vacuum (google it and the wood chops (cable) )..


Thanks buddy. You are the man.

----------


## --->>405<<---

What a shitty fvcking workout! Worst one ive had in awhile. A very long while. Making me think fvck this keto shit. I could barely pull 225 x 10 on deads. Not to mention i have pulled muscle in my back, my quad is doing something funny, my neck has inflammation, and my fvcking medial epicondylitis.. Oh and my shoulder.. All on the right side.. 

Im thinking none of this shit is healing cuz i aint eating no carbs.. Plus i feel fat so what the fvck!!!?!? SMH.. 

Back to the fvcking drawing board i think. 

Im fvking pissed!!

----------


## joebailey1271

I think its calories in versus calories out no matter what diet you are on. Keto will not make u lose weight any faster, but its a lot easier to control your appetite, I think.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

> What a shitty fvcking workout! Worst one ive had in awhile. A very long while. Making me think fvck this keto shit. I could barely pull 225 x 10 on deads. Not to mention i have pulled muscle in my back, my quad is doing something funny, my neck has inflammation, and my fvcking medial epicondylitis.. Oh and my shoulder.. All on the right side..
> 
> Im thinking none of this shit is healing cuz i aint eating no carbs.. Plus i feel fat so what the fvck!!!?!? SMH..
> 
> Back to the fvcking drawing board i think.
> 
> Im fvking pissed!!


Hmmmm. You seem a little frustrated. Just a tad. Thanks for your honesty. I don't know how ppl do it.

I know you will figure it out. Interested in what you come up with!

----------


## tarmyg

Keep it up 405, you can do it, it's just one of those days where you should have stayed in bed.

Thanks
~T

"I stay mostly by myself, but it's OK, they know me here"
Follow my personal story here: Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com Forums - An honest journey - Blogs

----------


## mockery

If i were you i would be looking at finding out if the lifts were effected by loss of LBM or if it was just CNS fatigue or you were not in the zone.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> If i were you i would be looking at finding out if the lifts were effected by loss of LBM or if it was just CNS fatigue or you were not in the zone.


dont think it was LBM loss. whatever it was, im done with keto.

----------


## RaginCajun

> dont think it was LBM loss. whatever it was, im done with keto.


Maybe it is all that riding your doing now!  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

have 9 weeks until my cruise. have shifted gears back into IF style diet. 18/6 fast/feed windows. 

2000cals every day. train EOD.. cardio ED switching from HIIT amd MISS. 

45mins MISS all non-training days. PWO HIIT training days. (at least 2 days per week). shooting for 4-5hrs cardio per week to start. 

*training days:*
1968cals
258g pro
146g carbs
38g fat

meal1: (PWO approx 1500hrs)
1lb chikn, 2 pieces ezekiel bread, cup oats 

meal2:
pound fish, 11oz spinach

meal3: 250g blueberries, 250g cottage cheese, 32g almond butter

*non-training days:*
2008cals
263g pro
58g carbs
89g fat

meal1: approx (1500hrs)
pound chikn (mexican seasoned), salsa, 11oz spinach or broccoli (300g) 

meal2: pound fish, 11oz spinach or broccoli (300g)

meal3: 2 eggs, cup egg whites, 300g avocado, 32g almond butter

all training and cardio will be done fasted. during fast all i will ingest is water. fast from 2100-1500 ED..

lets do it. starting weight 210lbs bf approx 15% ish

P.S. id like to note here my progress has been very slow because i think i have just been unwilling to admit to myself i needed to drop calories down to 2000 per day average. i have made the adjustment, lets see what happens. 



^^enjoy the socks and shorts  :Smilie:

----------


## RaginCajun

So, you are eating more on non-training days, interesting

----------


## --->>405<<---

> So, you are eating more on non-training days, interesting


well its pretty much 2000cals.. there are small fluctuations.. im doing cardio on those days too and no real carbs to speak of, but elevated fats. im thinking cals in vs cals out is the primary factor in fat loss. the rest may just complicate it. 

this is my way of kind of testing it. im focusing more on total cals (2000 each day) and just trying to kinda manage macros.

----------


## RaginCajun

> well its pretty much 2000cals.. there are small fluctuations.. im doing cardio on those days too and no real carbs to speak of, but elevated fats. im thinking cals in vs cals out is the primary factor in fat loss. the rest may just complicate it. this is my way of kind of testing it. im focusing more on total cals (2000 each day) and just trying to kinda manage macros.


Gotcha

How are you enjoying your bike? Able to ride much with this weather?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Gotcha
> 
> How are you enjoying your bike? Able to ride much with this weather?


went on a 2 hour ride today. it was 75 and sunny! loving it man! theyre putting my pipes, breather and Power commander on this week too!  :Smilie:  :Smilie:

----------


## mockery

5 hour re feed every 4 days lyle style seems to best suit you, get your cereal, get your bagels and a bag of 5 cent candies from 7-11

u are a carb lovin badd ass, you need to find a diet that lets you still enjoy ur guilty pleasures to make it a life style change and no more "diets"

----------


## bikeral

> went on a 2 hour ride today. it was 75 and sunny! loving it man! theyre putting my pipes, breather and Power commander on this week too!


Great to hear you are riding that thing. Snowing in NYC  :Frown:

----------


## --->>405<<---

for the record today is day 3 of IF cut and ive hit my macros/cals all 3 days. the only thing i have not done is 45mins cardio. i only did that one day thus far and did HIIT BOTH OTHER DAYS.

pwo X 12 SETS 30/60 YESTERDAY AND 18SETS + abs today. ive considered keeping cardio the same as it has been, simply to only make one modification right now (diet). i may stick with this to see how the adjustment in diet works alone. would prob be the wise thing. especially assuming itll probably work and i will need the cardio modification down the road.

----------


## -KJ-

> for the record today is day 3 of IF cut and ive hit my macros/cals all 3 days. the only thing i have not done is 45mins cardio. i only did that one day thus far and did HIIT BOTH OTHER DAYS. pwo X 12 SETS 30/60 YESTERDAY AND 18SETS + abs today. ive considered keeping cardio the same as it has been, simply to only make one modification right now (diet). i may stick with this to see how the adjustment in diet works alone. would prob be the wise thing. especially assuming itll probably work and i will need the cardio modification down the road.


Solid work 405, 

Interesting to see keto didn't work for you but many others like it. Good luck bro

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Solid work 405, 
> 
> Interesting to see keto didn't work for you but many others like it. Good luck bro


Thx man. Yeh it didnt work for me. I may have actually gained some fat lol. I feel better with my current diet. Lets see how legs goes today!  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

new pipes and breather installed!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> What a shitty fvcking workout! Worst one ive had in awhile. A very long while. Making me think fvck this keto shit. *I could barely pull 225 x 10 on deads.* Not to mention i have pulled muscle in my back, my quad is doing something funny, my neck has inflammation, and my fvcking medial epicondylitis.. Oh and my shoulder.. All on the right side.. 
> 
> Im thinking none of this shit is healing cuz i aint eating no carbs.. Plus i feel fat so what the fvck!!!?!? SMH.. 
> 
> Back to the fvcking drawing board i think. 
> 
> Im fvking pissed!!


well first back day since adding carbs back in and im back to 405lbs on deads im happy to say! this is also the first time ive gone that heavy since the back pull a couple months ago. also feeling better. my aches and pains seem to be on the mend. 

*NOTE TO SELF:* always keep carbs in your diet in some way, shape or form. 

tomorrow is an OFF day  :Smilie:  went to tanning bed a couple days ago and a bit burned. getting ready for my february cruise! looking good in the mirror today too.  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well just like the last time i did IF (only for one week) i actually GAINED a pound this week LOL. 211lbs.. this morning. i really dont give a damn though. pretty OK with where i currently sit bf% wise. yeh i could be leaner and would like to be and am working on it but im not killing myself (obviously). 

i did have a cheat meal (fajitas/chips and salsa, etc..) at the mexican restaurant a fee days ago and then afterward kinda veered away from my standard food choices for the day.. (ate some cottage cheese and blueberries).. 

not gonna let the pound trouble me as it doesnt mean anything really. keeping going. in reality 2000cals per day is probably closer to 2200-2400 with the little bit of chocolate here and extra almond butter ther and my coffee creamer has 60 cals and crap like that. only doing about 2.5hrs cardio each week right now. kinda just getting thru christmas and then may turn it up a notch for the last 6 weeks. 

gotta get the EGCG and chromium and implement Austins fat loss stack.

heres a PIC I TOOK A FEW days ago:

----------


## bikeral

> well just like the last time i did IF (only for one week) i actually GAINED a pound this week LOL. 211lbs.. this morning. i really dont give a damn though. pretty OK with where i currently sit bf% wise. yeh i could be leaner and would like to be and am working on it but im not killing myself (obviously). 
> 
> i did have a cheat meal (fajitas/chips and salsa, etc..) at the mexican restaurant a fee days ago and then afterward kinda veered away from my standard food choices for the day.. (ate some cottage cheese and blueberries).. 
> 
> not gonna let the pound trouble me as it doesnt mean anything really. keeping going. in reality 2000cals per day is probably closer to 2200-2400 with the little bit of chocolate here and extra almond butter ther and my coffee creamer has 60 cals and crap like that. only doing about 2.5hrs cardio each week right now. kinda just getting thru christmas and then may turn it up a notch for the last 6 weeks. 
> 
> gotta get the EGCG and chromium and implement Austins fat loss stack.
> 
> heres a PIC I TOOK A FEW days ago:


Sounds like a plan. Even a little progress during the holidays is better than going backwards.

----------


## --->>405<<---

off today. bout to jump on the bike and ride to the gym for abs/HIIT..  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

well got abs/hiit done. did 18sets intervals. 

14 sets at 30/60 and the last 4 sets at 30/30..

think im gonna incorporate more 30/30 sets as they are intense and i am finally able to recover in 30 secs but i can tell u after the 4th one i dont think i couldve done another..  :Smilie:

----------


## Sgt. Hartman

You running on treadmill for your HIIT? How fast?

I've been doing the stairmill 60 level 5/60 level 15 for 10 sets (20min). It's torture.  :Smilie:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> You running on treadmill for your HIIT? How fast?
> 
> I've been doing the stairmill 60 level 5/60 level 15 for 10 sets (20min). It's torture.


Elliptical, reason being my right knee has needed surgery since 2005. I stopped running on it for the most part a year or 2 ago. In any event it is very effective. 

Level 8 (rest tension) level 13-14 (high intensity tension) 

30/60 at whatever pace i can muster during rest (approx. 60 rpm) then Level 13/14 (200-250rpm).. Today for last 4 sets did 30/30 and that was brutal. Im running IF too so this is all done fasted usually at noon (fasting hour 16-17)

Good to see u stop by BTW there sarge  :Smilie:

----------


## Lunk1

I'm glad to see you are cutting yourself some slack.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I'm glad to see you are cutting yourself some slack.


Haha.. U mean with my dietary allowances im guessing?? Im fairly happy with how i look right now. I have come to the conclusion after the last cut to 9% that in order to achieve the look i really want i have to take drugs. Lol..  :LOL:

----------


## --->>405<<---

today: legs.. 

i suggested my wife invite her grandma down for christmas and she flew up there and got her over the weekend, they just got back last night so we had a little dinner thing. i of course deviated from my diet with a spaghetti carb meal and crescent rolls (of which i could live off) and pineapple dump cake. 

back on track today  :Smilie:

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## Lunk1

By slack I mean by not being so hard on yourself and finding more balance between life and looks.

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## --->>405<<---

> By slack I mean by not being so hard on yourself and finding more balance between life and looks.


i gotcha, well it is a lot better this way yes. at some point id like to think ill use a fair amount of drugs to see what they will afford me.

----------


## GirlyGymRat

405. For some reason I always thought u worked construction. Now I think you could be an underwear model. Pls take this as a complement. You looking very cut! I do remember your starting photos from years back! Nice work.

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## --->>405<<---

> 405. For some reason I always thought u worked construction. Now I think you could be an underwear model. Pls take this as a complement. You looking very cut! I do remember your starting photos from years back! Nice work.


thanks a lot GGR. dont see how else i could take it!  :Smilie:

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## GirlyGymRat

> thanks a lot GGR. dont see how else i could take it!


I didn't want you (or anyone else) to think I was hitting on you!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> I didn't want you (or anyone else) to think I was hitting on you!!!


  :LOL:  glad we got that cleared up! thanks for risking it to pay me a compliment..  :Smilie:

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## bikeral

> I didn't want you (or anyone else) to think I was hitting on you!!!


I think you were hitting on him.  :Wink:

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## --->>405<<---

> I think you were hitting on him.


 :LOL:

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## Sgt. Hartman

I disagree I still think 405 looks like a construction worker (however construction workers look lol).

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## --->>405<<---

had a bit of a cheat meal yesterday, nothing too bad a little mac and cheese and some ham. couple pecan pie tarts. cardio i made some progress too though. 

was an ab/HIIT day. 

20 total sets
sets 1-6: 30/60 level 13
sets 7-14: 30/60 level 14
sets 15-20 30/30 level 13

gotta say the 30/30 sets is where its at and where im headed. very tuff but i am getting better. with HIIT ive noticed with myself specifically the area where i notice the most profound improvement is my body's ability to expel the CO2 (or whatever else builds up in the blood). it has been awhile since i was gasping for oxygen, but where i feel the most discomfort is in the expulsion process. 

i will say i have gotten way way more efficient at it.  :Smilie: 

today: back

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## --->>405<<---

> I disagree I still think 405 looks like a construction worker (however construction workers look lol).


LOL.. yeh im curious as to why she thought that? do i look like a construction worker, and if so, what exactly quantifies a "construction worker" in the look department?  :Smilie:

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## AD

> LOL.. yeh im curious as to why she thought that? do i look like a construction worker, and if so, what exactly quantifies a "construction worker" in the look department?


Construction workers always wear bright orange overalls. The same color as the briefs you got on your av.

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## Sgt. Hartman

Did you whistle at her when she walked by?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Construction workers always wear bright orange overalls. The same color as the briefs you got on your av.


 :LOL:  touche!



> Did you whistle at her when she walked by?


We didnt whistle, we used to yell "BOODAY"!!! LOL.. (I did hardwood floors for 10years)

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## --->>405<<---

for some reason the dang belt makes me weaker when doing deads. ud think itd be the other way round.. interesting.

----------


## bikeral

405!!! Happy Saturday

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## --->>405<<---

> 405!!! Happy Saturday


thanks Al..  :Smilie: 

gonna get some riding done today..

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## --->>405<<---

abs/HIIT today and thats it! (plus a long long bike ride!  :Wink:  )

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## --->>405<<---

i tell you, cutting is such a mental challenge! it seems sometimes i am not making any progress and im frustrated and all that crap and then BOOM!! i wake up and look way better in the mirror than i remembered looking the day before.  :LOL:  SMH.. funny how that works. 

feeling pretty good about how i look right now. get thru this week (christmas) and then have 6 more weeks until i go on vacation. i could leave right now and look fine though. the funny thing is i weigh 210-215lbs which is the same weight i started at 6 months ago. i suppose i have done a small re-comp i dunno. had a pretty crappy training session in the gym today too but i dont even give a dang!  :Smilie:

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## --->>405<<---

hit the ole abs/HIIT today. ran 20 sets. tomorrow off day then legs thursday. should have plenty of energy! 

Merry Christmas to all  :Smilie:

----------


## Zodiac82

> hit the ole abs/HIIT today. ran 20 sets. tomorrow off day then legs thursday. should have plenty of energy!
> 
> Merry Christmas to all


merry christmas 405...

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## AD

any plans for a blast soon?

----------


## mockery

ud2.0 after the holidays . You know you want to

----------


## --->>405<<---

> merry christmas 405...


Same to u pal  :Smilie: 



> any plans for a blast soon?


Its possible after my vacay ..



> ud2.0 after the holidays . You know you want to


 :LOL:  yeh its fun (esp carb load) but very strict schedule, plus depletion wkout is brutal!! Wat im doing is working so not gonna change it, but im sure ill go bak to it in the future  :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

the ups and downs of cutting.. (feeling fat)  :LOL:  prob take a week to get back to normal and over this christmas fatness thing.

----------


## --->>405<<---

well back in the saddle again.. 6 weeks of strict protocol.

----------


## bikeral

> well back in the saddle again.. 6 weeks of strict protocol.


Whats your protocol this time? Sorry if I missed but looks like you will not be carb cycling.

----------


## Igifuno

Looking good on the avy 405. Gonna have to catch up on your log as well. 

Here's to progress in 2014!!

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## --->>405<<---

> Whats your protocol this time? Sorry if I missed but looks like you will not be carb cycling.


im am cycling carbs Al. pretty much just eating them PWO (primarily) on training days plus running Intermittent FASTING diet 16/8. hitting 2000cals per day roughly, sometimes going as high as 2400. as long as i stay within that range and do all my training i continue to drop fat. going for the skinny ass beach bum look..  :LOL:  ive already got the flip flops and the tan so im half way there!  :Wink: 





> Looking good on the avy 405. Gonna have to catch up on your log as well. 
> 
> Here's to progress in 2014!!


thx a lot IGI. thx for dropping by as well. id also like to note ive been taking note of ur posts, even though i dont comment a lot , and i like what u have to say and where ur headed. ur looking solid too man!  :Smilie:

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## RaginCajun

Happy New Year bud!

Vrooooom vrooooooom!

Have you burned out on your new bike yet?

----------


## --->>405<<---

had a good leg workout today. set a PR for the box squat triple drop set  :Smilie: 

495 x 5
405 x 5
365 x 5

pretty happy with that.. so much for always losing strength while cutting..

----------


## bikeral

> had a good leg workout today. set a PR for the box squat triple drop set 
> 
> 495 x 5
> 405 x 5
> 365 x 5
> 
> pretty happy with that.. so much for always losing strength while cutting..


495 That's some heavy weight. 

Happy AlsDay!

----------


## --->>405<<---

had a good chest/shoulder workout today. keeping cals higher than 2000 (prob closer to 2400-2600) and still losing bf. only doing HIIT for cardio. been that way for at least 2 months. liking that a lot. looking pretty good. full and lean. 

weighing in at 207lbs fasted and naked. probably 12-13%bf 

at this point i am not really even focused on "cutting" per se, but moreso just followiing the IF protocol loosely and only having carbs PWO. i am even considering switching up to lifting 6 days per week hitting every body part twice instead of my 3 day split right now just to break it up and see what happens.

----------


## Zodiac82

experimenting a little bit huh..?nice

this must be the year of experimental protocols

----------


## --->>405<<---

> *experimenting a little bit huh*..?nice
> 
> this must be the year of experimental protocols


yeh man.. trying to add some lean mass and drop body fat.. playing around a bit. over the last 2 years my weight has slowly continued to go up while my bodyfat stays relatively the same. i may have been a bit leaner than i am now this time in 2012 but i only weighed 183lbs instead of 207lbs.. my abs look better now and so does me legs and chest and such.. progress. maybe one day i will actually run a proper cycle.

not to mention my squat has gone up about 200+ pounds as well as my deadlift and bench (although not as dramatic).

----------


## Zodiac82

[QUOTE="--->>405<<---;6778892"]

yeh man.. trying to add some lean mass and drop body fat.. playing around a bit. over the last 2 years my weight has slowly continued to go up while my bodyfat stays relatively the same. i may have been a bit leaner than i am now this time in 2012 but i only weighed 183lbs instead of 207lbs.. my abs look better now and so does me legs and chest and such.. progress. [quote] 24 lbs heavier while maintaining same bf...cant be upset about that huh 

[quote]maybe one day i will actually run a PROPER cycle.[quote] what are u gettin UK on us..lol j/k.. u HAVE been talkin bout that cycle for some time lol 




> not to mention my squat has gone up about 200+ pounds as well as my deadlift and bench (although not as dramatic).


nice

----------


## --->>405<<---

> what are u gettin UK on us..lol j/k.. u HAVE been talkin bout that cycle for some time lol


LOL.. yeh i mustve picked that up somewhere around here  :Wink: 

i have been, at least im not one of those guys wanting to do it prematurely right!!??  :Smilie:

----------


## Zodiac82

> LOL.. yeh i mustve picked that up somewhere around here 
> 
> i have been, at least im not one of those guys wanting to do it prematurely right!!??


indeed...I hear ya

yeh I've been a lil premature. someti.....................uh nevermind

----------


## --->>405<<---

good work out today. abs/HIIT

stepped it up. 

intervals

sets 1-12 30/45

sets 6-18 30/30

intense! i am in good cardiovascular shape though and was looking good in the mirror  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

Cycle
Cycle
Cycle
Cycle
Cycle
Cycle
Cycle
Cycle
Cycle
Cycle
Cycle
Cycle
 :Big Grin:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Cycle
> Cycle
> Cycle
> Cycle
> Cycle
> Cycle
> Cycle
> Cycle
> Cycle
> ...


LMAO!!  :LOL:  

i have blood work with new doc this coming monday. after that im good for 3 months.

----------


## --->>405<<---

did deads yesterday WITHOUT BELT and felt a lot stronger and my back was fine. 

135 x 10
225 x 10
315 x 5
315 x 5
365 x 5
365 x 5
415 x 5

will prob bump to 465 next week. funny how i can do more weight and feel better without a belt on. when wearing the belt it feels liek it prevents me from utilizing my abs to lift the weight and im weaker. it does seem maybe using the belt makes me stronger when i remove it though if that makes any sense.

----------


## RaginCajun

> did deads yesterday WITHOUT BELT and felt a lot stronger and my back was fine. 135 x 10 225 x 10 315 x 5 315 x 5 365 x 5 365 x 5 415 x 5 will prob bump to 465 next week. funny how i can do more weight and feel better without a belt on. when wearing the belt it feels liek it prevents me from utilizing my abs to lift the weight and im weaker. it does seem maybe using the belt makes me stronger when i remove it though if that makes any sense.


Nice!

As long as your form isn't bad or changed, I see no need for the belt if you feel comfortable.

And I am with you on the HIT cardio, I can't wait 60 sec between sprints either!

----------


## bikeral

My Man 405!!!! How are you? Looking good bro.

----------


## bikeral

When ya back from vacation? Details of meals will be required. :Wink:

----------


## --->>405<<---

> When ya back from vacation? Details of meals will be required.


haha. just got back last nite. had a great time. now time to get busy!  :Smilie:

----------


## Back In Black

:1welcome:  back

----------


## --->>405<<---

> back


thanks man. nice avi!  :LOL:

----------


## Back In Black

> thanks man. nice avi!


Nice reminder, I need to change it.

How fat did you get then?  :Wink: 

All you can eat buffets?

----------


## tarmyg

Welcome back 405, nice to have you back again!

~T

----------


## energizer bunny

Glad to see you back mate!

whats your goals for this year?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Nice reminder, I need to change it.
> 
> How fat did you get then? 
> 
> All you can eat buffets?


LOL.. well i was not really cutting before i left so i dont think i gained but maybe a couple pounds if that. yes there were buffets on the ship. also had plated dinners with 2 appetizers and 3-4 desserts plus 5 or so rolls with butter  :Smilie: 

all in all i think i did fairly well. i havent lifted a weight or done a minute of cardio since feb 6.. 

i was sick (sore throat, dizzy, cough, weak, etc..) a bit for the holiday as well which sucked but i managed ok. there was no way in hell i was gonna do any exercising!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Welcome back 405, nice to have you back again!
> 
> ~T





> Glad to see you back mate!
> 
> whats your goals for this year?


thx dudes  :Smilie: 

goals: same as everyones i suppose. try to get bigger and leaner!  :Smilie:

----------


## Brazensol

What's your weight in your avatar?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> What's your weight in your avatar?


190-195

whats up braz?

----------


## bikeral

Welcome back buddy.

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Welcome back buddy.


thx al  :Smilie:

----------


## Brazensol

> 190-195
> 
> whats up braz?


You're looking solid! I jacked up my left shoulder on the bench press at the end of last August and haven't been doing much of anything since except gain 10 pounds of flab. Got an MRI scheduled in March and will go from there. Started cardio again today though...

----------


## human project

Where you been 405?? Any updates as of late???

----------


## bikeral

405 not logging? World is coming to an end.

----------


## RaginCajun

> 405 not logging? World is coming to an end.


haha! i think he is on vacation!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> haha! i think he is on vacation!


i need a vacation dammit!

----------


## RaginCajun

> i need a vacation dammit!


I hear ya man!!!

----------


## --->>405<<---

just for the fvck of it 12 week cutting cycle 600mg test only (first cycle)

----------


## RaginCajun

Looking forward to your results!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Looking forward to your results!


LMAO  :LOL:  

dammit man, those ARE the results..

----------


## --->>405<<---

maybe this is a better comparison LOL  :LOL:

----------


## RaginCajun

Hahaha, I thought you were starting one, not finishing one.

Looking big man and cut!

----------


## --->>405<<---

> Hahaha, I thought you were starting one, not finishing one.
> 
> Looking big man and cut!


thanks. not big enuff (about 200lbs) but i will be running another cycle in 8-12 weeks. this one will be to try to put on some lean size.  :Smilie: 

im happy with the results of this one. carbs only went as low as 160g which was nice, and at the most i only did 2.5hrs cardio per week.

----------


## RaginCajun

> thanks. not big enuff (about 200lbs) but i will be running another cycle in 8-12 weeks. this one will be to try to put on some lean size.  im happy with the results of this one. carbs only went as low as 160g which was nice, and at the most i only did 2.5hrs cardio per week.


What weight did you start out with, 190?

Are you still fasting, or normal eating?

----------


## --->>405<<---

> What weight did you start out with, 190?
> 
> Are you still fasting, or normal eating?


started at 212.. ended at 200. bigger chest, smaller waist. recomp(ish)  :Smilie: 

fasting from around 22:00 before bed until 13:00 (PWO) i do have some cals from my coffee creamer.

----------


## RaginCajun

> started at 212.. ended at 200. bigger chest, smaller waist. recomp(ish)  fasting from around 22:00 before bed until 13:00 (PWO) i do have some cals from my coffee creamer.


Def can see the hard work!

----------

