# GENERAL FORUM > IN THE NEWS >  Deadly shooting at US Army base

## Flagg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8345713.stm

I know there's a thread for this in the AR lounge, but it's beyond sketchy, just "Hey, who did it?" and being in the AR Lounge means its probably going to get bombarded with retardedness (already starting) and pictures (inevitable). Most of the Lounge tards tend to avoid the News section.

Anyways, looks like it was one guy, a Major Malik Hassan, a military psychatrist, who at the moment did it on the grounds he didn't want to go to Iraq. He was eventually shot several times but is still in a stable condition. 

Most unusual case. I wonder what the true motive will end up being..

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## Want_2_Get_BIG

There reasoning is bs. dude has been in for like 12 yrs and never had to deploy! Then he wants to shoot some people for that reason. Give me a fuggin break! I think he had bigger plans.

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## Flagg

> There reasoning is bs. dude has been in for like 12 yrs and never had to deploy! Then he wants to shoot some people for that reason. Give me a fuggin break! I think he had bigger plans.



Maybe you're right, im glad he's not dead because prehaps some answers will be gotten out of him.

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## Want_2_Get_BIG

Chit, I fuggin Hope so. Makes you think how many other pieces of chit we have in our military!!! Mother [email protected]#kers!

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## Flagg

Well it's being said now that he was fighting orders to be deployed in Iraq later this year and was against US Foreign policy. It's also being said that he has claimed that Muslims should rise up against American oppressors, again im just going by what im seeing from online newspapers. 

The guy was a psychaitrist that treated soldiers with post war stress syndrome. 

A one Lt Gen Cone said the evidence doesn't look like a "terrorist act".

Before people jump on the muslim bandwagon, like you seem to have "Want_2_Get_Big", there have been cases of violence at this compound before. The base has seen other violence in recent years. In September last year a 21-year-old 1st Cavalry Division soldier shot his lieutenant to death and then killed himself. 

It's a sad fact that sometimes people just go crazy. And its a sad fact that sometimes they have a gun in their hand when that happens.

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## Want_2_Get_BIG

I hear ya, me and all my closest friends have all been in the military and some have been stationed at ft. hood. I still have one friend there now. She is fine just a little shook up and pissed off

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## Mooseman33

muslim bandwagon, are u kidding me flagg...

NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS, BUT 99% OF ALL TERRORISTS ARE MUSLIM..

every major conflict in the world involves muslims...

when do we stop blaming the people who follow the nation of islam and start blaming the nation of islam...

the guy was a scumbag muslim carrying out his won jihad..

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## Flagg

> muslim bandwagon, are u kidding me flagg...
> 
> NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS, BUT 99% OF ALL TERRORISTS ARE MUSLIM..
> 
> every major conflict in the world involves muslims...
> 
> when do we stop blaming the people who follow the nation of islam and start blaming the nation of islam...
> 
> the guy was a scumbag muslim carrying out his won jihad..



The only reason I say muslim bandwagon was because 20 years ago it was the Communist bandwagon, remember, the "evil russians". People make out like muslim terrorists have only been around since 9/11. 

Yes it's now looking like from the reports that the guy was pursuing some personal "Jihad" on American soldiers. I can't say this is going to do the current muslim soldiers serving in US or UK services much good this week, what with the betrayal of the Afghan police and now this. The backlash is not going to be pretty.

But what's your solution Moose? Kick all muslims out of the military? Kick them out of the West? Im not trying to start an argument with you and I agree, Muslims do have to start taking responsibility for this sort of crap going on but seriously, what is the solution to any of this? I think the Muslim problem is just that today, a problem, but what is the solution to it?

The Russians couldn't change anything in Afganistan in 9 years of occupation, and unlike us, they don't fvck about. Yet they still failed. The last time the British was there, we had pith helmets and martini rifles. The point is, Afghanistan is an unwinnable region of the world. We should pull out now. And im sick of hearing "that would be an insult to the 5000 killed over there". Staying there is an insult to the next 5000 that will die over the next 10 years of not making any leeway. 

I would also argue though that just about every major conflict in the world seems to involve the US and UK these days, but what ya gonna do...

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## Panzerfaust

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8345713.stm
> 
> I know there's a thread for this in the AR lounge, but it's beyond sketchy, just "Hey, who did it?" and being in the AR Lounge means its probably going to get bombarded with retardedness (already starting) and pictures (inevitable). Most of the Lounge tards tend to avoid the News section.
> 
> Anyways, looks like it was one guy, a Major Malik Hassan, a military psychatrist, who at the moment did it on the grounds he didn't want to go to Iraq. He was eventually shot several times but is still in a stable condition. 
> 
> *Most unusual case. I wonder what the true motive will end up being*..




Guns man, the military should not be allowed to carry firearms or this would never have happened. That and allowing a bunch of Halik Hasan sounding ****ers infiltrate the military.  :LOL:

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## Flagg

> Guns man, the military should not be allowed to carry firearms or this would never have happened. That and allowing a bunch of Halik Hasan sounding ****ers infiltrate the military.



Well like I said to Moose, what are you gonna do? Stop muslims from joining the military?? Im not trying to make excuses for this prick, but rather than people go on some massive rage whine about "muslims blahblah" what do people suggest we do about any of this??

I mean it's looking as if the FBI suspected this guy for awhile, so why the **** was no one warned about this guy?! That there looks like a failing. Its like the british autistic guy that hacked into the pentagon database, rather than people go on about cyber terrorism, etc...people should be asking why and how he managed to do that. That easily could have been the Chinese. 

This is all about the Middle East. And the sooner we leave, the sooner this crap will stop.

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## Mooseman33

i dont know what the solution is.
but i believe that the nation of islam is out to conquer the world, and they will do it at any means. 
should they be allowed in the military, i really dont know..

i have been reading a new book, and i luv it, its called "Muslim maffia", it is a great read about C.A.I.R..

i really feel there is something very evil within the nation, i just havent done all my homework to find what it is,..

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## Flagg

Every nation is out to rule the world, the only problem I have with Islam doing it is how far back in time they want to drag everyone. 

I feel a massive war is ever perculating under the surface. The West against, well....everyone else.

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## Nooomoto

> Well it's being said now that he was fighting orders to be deployed in Iraq later this year and was against US Foreign policy. It's also being said that he has claimed that Muslims should rise up against American oppressors, again im just going by what im seeing from online newspapers.


When you're a soldier, you're a soldier. It's not your job to have an opinion for or against policy. Want to have an opinion? Get out of the military.

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## OCTOBER-2009

> This is all about the Middle East. And the sooner we leave, the sooner this crap will stop.



You have got to be kidding me Flagg. Do you honestly think that terrorism will stop the second we leave Afghanistan & Iraq? Remember the USS Cole & all the attacks on our embassies prior to President Bush & these wars. 

It's ridicules to think he killed and wounded "our" troops because he did not want to go to war. AH, Then get out of the military if you don't want to go to war. 

He is a Muslim and has a duty to convert or destroy all non-believers. He is still alive so he'll have to wait a while for his 72 virgins!!!!

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## Flagg

> You have got to be kidding me Flagg. Do you honestly think that terrorism will stop the second we leave Afghanistan & Iraq? Remember the USS Cole & all the attacks on our embassies prior to President Bush & these wars. 
> 
> It's ridicules to think he killed and wounded "our" troops because he did not want to go to war. AH, Then get out of the military if you don't want to go to war. 
> 
> He is a Muslim and has a duty to convert or destroy all non-believers. He is still alive so he'll have to wait a while for his 72 virgins!!!!



I really don't want to hear that spin about "if we don't fight them there, we'll be fighting them here" because by that reckoning we'll have to stay in the Middle East, pretty much forever. Do you want that, sending wave after wave of soldiers dying for political propaganda. 

I don't care about that prick, if he's on dialisis for the rest of his life then **** him. We DO need to get out the Middle East, and then we need to stop all aid being sent there as well. Afghanistan is the second poorest country in the world.

What will happen when we leave Iraq and Afghanistan is the moment we're gone, the militia and Taliban will sieze control again. So what's the difference in leaving now or 10 years time, besides saving a ton load of cash and a further 5000 soldiers?

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## Panzerfaust

> Well like I said to Moose, what are you gonna do? *Stop muslims from joining the military??* Im not trying to make excuses for this prick, but rather than people go on some massive rage whine about "muslims blahblah" what do people suggest we do about any of this??
> 
> I mean it's looking as if the FBI suspected this guy for awhile, so why the **** was no one warned about this guy?! That there looks like a failing. Its like the british autistic guy that hacked into the pentagon database, rather than people go on about cyber terrorism, etc...people should be asking why and how he managed to do that. That easily could have been the Chinese. 
> 
> This is all about the Middle East. And the sooner we leave, the sooner this crap will stop.



Nah, continue to accept anything that way when you are on the battlefield, you don't know who the ****ing enemy is.

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## O.fO.shO

> I really don't want to hear that spin about "if we don't fight them there, we'll be fighting them here" because by that reckoning we'll have to stay in the Middle East, pretty much forever. Do you want that, sending wave after wave of soldiers dying for political propaganda. 
> 
> I don't care about that prick, if he's on dialisis for the rest of his life then **** him. We DO need to get out the Middle East, and then we need to stop all aid being sent there as well. Afghanistan is the second poorest country in the world.
> 
> What will happen when we leave Iraq and Afghanistan is the moment we're gone, the militia and Taliban will sieze control again. So what's the difference in leaving now or 10 years time, besides saving a ton load of cash and a further 5000 soldiers?


 Sieze control again?? I'd say they have control .

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## TITANIUM

It will be interesting of what ends up happening to this guy.

Texas, after all has capitol punishment.

He's going to wish he was dead, after all the "pending investigation" shit is over.

Now, due to the fact that it happened on a military base, it would be handled internally.

But, it still happened, all the same.

I remember reading about the Russians and sleeper cells in the 80's.(actually it goes back quite further than that).

Flagg, I don't have a answer for you. I feel there is not one.

Best

T

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## Bull_Nuts

All of this crap is freaking rediculous....no wonder something like this happened...it was just a matter of time....

Here are the major questions

1)WHY on earth was no one armed on a military base? (if the reason is some stuped rule or law....then its retarted....criminals don't obviously follow rules so it just leaves the law abbiding people unable to protect themselves)

2)WHY is the media making excuses for this duche bag? (PTSD my A$$...don't they mean PRE-Traumatic Stress Disorder...They say he was harrassed about being moooslum...hardly traumatic!...

3)WHY is everyone so nonchalant about the worst attack ever of this kind?...The media(even Fox) was constantly tip toeing around the subject affraid to call it what it really was. Obama was himself...positioning himself on the fence(remember him voting only "present")...probably affraid to loose future muslim votes. Im so sick of Obama worrying about offending muslims....If it was a non-muslim that commited this terroristic attack it would have been raked through the coals over and again. 

4)How could Obama have been so lax and laid back about what this guy did? His response was worse than Bush's 911 response

5)They say they had been watching this guy for several months...I don't believe it! They are just saying that because they are embarrased that they were caught with their pants down...But like that was any better...They think we are idiots...You mean to tell me that a person who is capable of doing what this guy did...was allowed to counsel and treat our vets knowing what they supposedly "knew". Complete horse$hit!!!

6)Even worse...perfect evidence of his character...using our government(which is demonized constantly) to get a free education, believe what he wants, and practice what religion he chooses...only to terrorize our people....Typical...Our country is good enough to give give give but when it comes time to pay up...we are the big bad enemy. Same thing with amnesty of illegals...i bet if there were a pre-existing ammendment or clause that prohibited voting then they wouldn't be so for it. 

How many damn times are we going to allow these tragic events to just happen to us all because our President(past and present) and his cronies are affraid to hurt the feelings of other countries at the expense of law abiding americans?

I just saw on CNN 2 muslims openly stating that they believe in terrorizing non-believers because the curan says so AND they will continue to do so...

How can we allow these people who openly admit they will cause harm to non-believers be allowed to live here and take advantages of being a US citizen.

This $hit fvcking eats me up....if i ever came across that guy on the street id have some terror for his b1tch a$$ in the form of fists, elbows, knees and steeltoed boots.

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## Flagg

> All of this crap is freaking rediculous....no wonder something like this happened...it was just a matter of time....
> 
> Here are the major questions
> 
> 1)WHY on earth was no one armed on a military base? (if the reason is some stuped rule or law....then its retarted....criminals don't obviously follow rules so it just leaves the law abbiding people unable to protect themselves)
> 
> 2)WHY is the media making excuses for this duche bag? (PTSD my A$$...don't they mean PRE-Traumatic Stress Disorder...They say he was harrassed about being moooslum...hardly traumatic!...
> 
> 3)WHY is everyone so nonchalant about the worst attack ever of this kind?...The media(even Fox) was constantly tip toeing around the subject affraid to call it what it really was. Obama was himself...positioning himself on the fence(remember him voting only "present")...probably affraid to loose future muslim votes. Im so sick of Obama worrying about offending muslims....If it was a non-muslim that commited this terroristic attack it would have been raked through the coals over and again. 
> ...




I've not agreed with BullNuts in the past but I find it hard to find any fault with this post. It really, REALLY pisses me off when you get these nuts declaring "Death to West", IN a Western City and collecting ****ing benefits. How they Hell are they not being deported for basically, threatening the country they are in? In this day and age and world we live in, simply "keeping an eye on these individuals" is not good enough. Get rid of them at the first sign of hate, job done. 

And yeah, i've lost a lot of faith in politicians. I wouldn't be surprised if Obama was tip-toe'ing around the subject, more for fear of losing future votes than anything...lets face facts, politicians put themselves first, the people second.

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## Bull_Nuts

> I've not agreed with BullNuts in the past but I find it hard to find any fault with this post. It really, REALLY pisses me off when you get these nuts declaring "Death to West", IN a Western City and collecting ****ing benefits. How they Hell are they not being deported for basically, threatening the country they are in? In this day and age and world we live in, simply "keeping an eye on these individuals" is not good enough. Get rid of them at the first sign of hate, job done. 
> 
> And yeah, i've lost a lot of faith in politicians. I wouldn't be surprised if Obama was tip-toe'ing around the subject, more for fear of losing future votes than anything...lets face facts, politicians put themselves first, the people second.


Why can't the people see that....its a sad reality...

".....a sad statue of liberty and a generation that didn't agree" -SOAD

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## NightWolf

> How they Hell are they not being deported for basically, threatening the country they are in? In this day and age and world we live in, simply "keeping an eye on these individuals" is not good enough. Get rid of them at the first sign of hate, job done.


Agreed,

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## Kratos

Derka derka Mohammed jihad jihad

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## TITANIUM

> I've not agreed with BullNuts in the past but I find it hard to find any fault with this post. It really, REALLY pisses me off when you get these nuts declaring "Death to West", IN a Western City and collecting ****ing benefits. How they Hell are they not being deported for basically, threatening the country they are in? In this day and age and world we live in, simply "keeping an eye on these individuals" is not good enough. Get rid of them at the first sign of hate, job done. 
> 
> And yeah, i've lost a lot of faith in politicians. I wouldn't be surprised if Obama was tip-toe'ing around the subject, more for fear of losing future votes than anything...lets face facts, politicians put themselves first, the people second.


I think he did more damage to his own image by doing this. It was an embarrassing address at best. If you think he can tip toe through a land mine field, in the dark, with snow shoes own, then he is truly GOD, and the Islams are the true answer.LOL

Best

T

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## Want_2_Get_BIG

> All of this crap is freaking rediculous....no wonder something like this happened...it was just a matter of time....
> 
> Here are the major questions
> 
> 1)WHY on earth was no one armed on a military base? (if the reason is some stuped rule or law....then its retarted....criminals don't obviously follow rules so it just leaves the law abbiding people unable to protect themselves)
> 
> 2)WHY is the media making excuses for this duche bag? (PTSD my A$$...don't they mean PRE-Traumatic Stress Disorder...They say he was harrassed about being moooslum...hardly traumatic!...
> 
> 3)WHY is everyone so nonchalant about the worst attack ever of this kind?...The media(even Fox) was constantly tip toeing around the subject affraid to call it what it really was. Obama was himself...positioning himself on the fence(remember him voting only "present")...probably affraid to loose future muslim votes. Im so sick of Obama worrying about offending muslims....If it was a non-muslim that commited this terroristic attack it would have been raked through the coals over and again. 
> ...


Well said brother, Well said...... This hole situation is fuged. Your right Obama's bish ass acted like he could give 2 shtz. HMMMMMM, I wonder!!!

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## TITANIUM

I bet Obama is between a rock and a hard place on this one. Kind of exposes him trying to show his grace under pressure stature. Not trying to take this thread off point from Flagg, just needed to be said.

As far as these other pieces of shit that hate us and would do us harm,they need to be deported.Along with the rest of the people that either don't belong here, or don't want to be here.It really is that simple.

But, like everything else in this country goes, people have to die before it is seen as a clear and present danger or threat.

This whole thing is a clusterfvck.

Best

T

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## TITANIUM

Sen. Joe Lieberman's call for the investigation came as word surfaced that Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan apparently attended the same Virginia mosque as two Sept. 11 hijackers in 2001, at a time when a radical imam preached there. Whether Hasan, an Army psychiatrist, associated with the hijackers is something the FBI will probably look into, according to a law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing.

Classmates participating in a 2007-2008 master's program at a military college complained repeatedly to superiors about what they considered Hasan's anti-American views. Dr. Val Finnell said Hasan gave a presentation at the Uniformed Services University that justified suicide bombing and told classmates that Islamic law trumped the U.S. Constitution.

Another classmate said he complained to five officers and two civilian faculty members at the university. He wrote in a command climate survey sent to Pentagon officials that fear in the military of being seen as politically incorrect prevented an "intellectually honest discussion of Islamic ideology" in the ranks. The classmate also requested anonymity because the investigation is ongoing.

Lieberman, chairman of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, wants Congress to determine whether the shootings constitute a terrorist attack.

"If Hasan was showing signs, saying to people that he had become an Islamist extremist, the U.S. Army has to have zero tolerance," Lieberman, an independent from Connecticut, said on "Fox News Sunday." "He should have been gone."

Authorities continue to refer to Hasan, 39, as the only suspect in the shootings that killed 13 and wounded 29, but they won't say when charges would be filed and have said they have not determined a motive. Hasan, who was shot by civilian police to end the rampage, was in critical but stable condition at an Army hospital in San Antonio.

He was breathing on his own after being taken off a ventilator on Saturday, but officials won't say whether Hasan can communicate. Sixteen victims remained hospitalized with gunshot wounds, and seven were in intensive care.

Hasan's family described a man incapable of the attack, calling him a devoted doctor and devout Muslim who showed no signs that he might lash out.

"I've known my brother Nidal to be a peaceful, loving and compassionate person who has shown great interest in the medical field and in helping others," his brother, Eyad Hasan, of Sterling, Va., said in a statement Saturday. "He has never committed an act of violence and was always known to be a good, law-abiding citizen."

Army Chief of Staff George Casey warned against reaching conclusions about the suspected shooter's motives until investigators have fully explored the attack. "I think the speculation (on Hasan's Islamic roots) could potentially heighten backlash against some of our Muslim soldiers," he said on ABC's "This Week."

Imam Johari Abdul-Malik, outreach director at the Dar al Hijrah Islamic Center, said he did not know whether Hasan ever attended the Falls Church, Va., mosque but confirmed that the Hasan family participated in services there. Abdul-Malik said the Hasans were not leaders at the mosque and their attendance was utterly normal.

In 2001, Anwar Aulaqi was an imam, or spiritual leader, at the mosque. Aulaqi told the FBI in 2001 that, before he moved to Virginia in early 2001, he met with 9/11 hijacker Nawaf al-Hazmi several times in San Diego. Al-Hazmi was at the time living with Khalid al-Mihdhar, another hijacker. Al-Hazmi and another hijacker, Hani Hanjour, attended the Dar al Hijrah mosque in early April 2001.

The mosque is one of the largest on the East Coast, and thousands of worshippers attend prayers and services there every week. Abdul-Malik said it's a mistake for people to conflate regular attendance at a mosque with extremism.

Many Muslims pray at the mosque multiple times a day, he said. "It's part of family life. It's like going out for ice cream after dinner."

A government official speaking on condition of anonymity because the person was not authorized to discuss the case said an initial review of Hasan's computer use has found no evidence of links to terror groups or anyone who might have helped plan or push him toward the attack. The review of Hasan's computer is continuing, the official said.

Hasan likely would face military justice rather than federal criminal charges if investigators determine the violence was the work of just one person.

There is no time limit on charging Hasan, but once he is in pre-trial confinement, the military has 120 days to start his trial, said John P. Galligan, an attorney who has represented Fort Hood soldiers but is not involved in the Hasan case. However, defense attorneys often file motions that stop the 120-day clock. Authorities have said Hasan is "in custody" in the hospital, but it's unclear if that is considered pre-trial confinement. 

Across the sprawling post and in neighboring Killeen, soldiers, their relatives and members of the community struggled to make sense of the shootings. Candles burned Saturday night outside the apartment complex where Hasan lived. Small white crosses, one for each of the dead, dotted a lawn at a Killeen church on Sunday. 

Even as the community took time to mourn the victims at worship services on and off the post, Fort Hood spokesman Col. John Rossi acknowledged that the country's largest military installation was moving forward with its usual business of soldiering. The processing center where Hasan allegedly opened fire on Thursday remains a crime scene, but the activities that went on there were relocated, with the goal of reopening the center as soon as Sunday. 

Fort Hood is "continuing to prepare for the mission at hand," Rossi said. "There's a lot of routine activity still happening. You'll hear cannon fire and artillery fire. Soldiers in units are still trying to execute the missions we have been tasked with." 

At the post's main church Sunday, Col. Frank Jackson, the garrison chaplain, asked mourners to pray for Hasan and his family "as they find themselves in a position that no person ever desires to be — to try and explain the unexplainable." 

"Lord, all those around us search for motive, search for meaning, search for something, someone to blame. That is so frustrating," Jackson told a group of about 120 people gathered at the 1st Cavalry Memorial Chapel. "Today, we pause to hear from you. So Lord, as we pray together, we focus on things we know." 

___ 

Associated Press writers Angela K. Brown and Jeff Carlton in Fort Hood and Pamela Hess, Devlin Barrett, Richard Lardner and Jessica Gresko in Washington contributed to this report.

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## Flagg

> Agreed,



And it's these same lunatics that declare "Death to Denmark" over that Mohammed cartoon that surfaced a year or two ago. It makes me sick, they don't deserve to be in our countries if that's how they feel, they wont fvck off, so when will the Governments grow some and deport them out of here?!




> I bet Obama is between a rock and a hard place on this one. Kind of exposes him trying to show his grace under pressure stature. Not trying to take this thread off point from Flagg, just needed to be said.
> 
> As far as these other pieces of shit that hate us and would do us harm,they need to be deported.Along with the rest of the people that either don't belong here, or don't want to be here.It really is that simple.
> 
> But, like everything else in this country goes, people have to die before it is seen as a clear and present danger or threat.
> 
> This whole thing is a clusterfvck.
> 
> Best
> ...



It's true. I mean it'll take something extreme like one of these lunatics letting off a dirty bomb or worse, somewhere in Europe or North America before someone has the brainstorm "anyone declaring death to our nation and is not a national citizen shall hence be deported from whence they came".

In regards to the article about Liberman, what will happen to him if tried by a Military Court? Will he just get a long sentence or can he be executed? You need to get some answers out of this guy and fast, you have no idea if he was working independently or with someone(s).

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## TITANIUM

KILLEEN, Texas  The attorney for a man suspected in a deadly shooting spree at Fort Hood, Texas, says he's heading to San Antonio to meet his client.

Retired Col. John P. Galligan says he was retained by Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan's family on Monday. He says he has asked investigators not to question Hasan and doesn't know if he's been medically cleared to talk.

Hasan is accused of opening fire on the Army post on Thursday, killing 13 people and wounding 29 before civilian police shot him. He remains at a U.S. Army hospital in San Antonio, where a spokesman said Monday he is now able to talk.

Authorities won't say when charges would be filed or if Hasan would face military justice.

Galligan questions whether Hasan could get a fair trial anywhere, given the widespread attention to the case.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

FORT HOOD, Texas (AP)  The man accused of killing 13 people and wounding 29 at Fort Hood is able to talk, a hospital spokesman said Monday, but it's unknown when investigators might take advantage of his improving health to press forward with their probe into the shooting spree.

Authorities say Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan fired off more than 100 rounds Thursday at a soldier processing center before civilian police shot him in the torso. He was taken into custody and eventually moved to an Army hospital in San Antonio, where he was in stable condition and able to talk, said Dewey Mitchell, a Brooke Army Medical Center spokesman.

Authorities continue to refer to Hasan, 39, as the only suspect in the shootings, but they won't say when charges would be filed and have said they have not determined a motive. A spokesman for Army investigators did not immediately respond to calls and e-mails seeking comment Monday.

Retired Col. John P. Galligan said he was contacted Monday by Hasan's family, which asked him to be their lawyer. Galligan said he was hoping to meet with Hasan later in the day.

"Until I meet with him, it's best to say we're just going to protect all of his rights," he said. Galligan said he did not know Hasan's condition.

Fifteen of the shooting victims remained hospitalized with gunshot wounds, and eight were in intensive care.

The personal Web site for a radical American imam living in Yemen who had contact with two 9/11 hijackers praised Hasan as a hero.

The posting Monday on the Web site for Anwar al Awlaki, who was a spiritual leader at two mosques where three 9/11 hijackers worshipped, said American Muslims who condemned the Fort Hood attack are hypocrites who have committed treason against their religion.

Awlaki said the only way a Muslim can justify serving in the U.S. military is if he intends to "follow in the footsteps of men like Nidal."

"Nidal Hassan (sic) is a hero," Awlaki said. "He is a man of conscience who could not bear living the contradiction of being a Muslim and serving in an army that is fighting against his own people."

Two U.S. intelligence officials told The Associated Press the Web site was Awlaki's. They spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence collection. Awlaki did not immediately respond to an attempt to contact him through the Web site.

Hasan's family attended the Dar al Hijrah Islamic Center in Falls Church, Va., where Awlaki was preaching in 2001. Hasan's mother's funeral was held at the mosque on May 31, 2001, according to her obituary in the Roanoke Times newspaper, around the same time two 9/11 hijackers worshipped at the mosque and while Awlaki was preaching. 

Awlaki is a native-born U.S. citizen who left the United States in 2002, eventually traveling to Yemen. He was released from a Yemeni jail last year and has since gone missing. He is on Yemen's most wanted militant list, according to three Yemeni security officials. 

The officials say Awlaki was arrested in 2006 with a small group of suspected al-Qaida militants in the capital San'a. They say he was released more than a year later after signing a pledge he will not break the law or leave the country. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue. 

The Falls Church mosque is one of the largest on the East Coast, and thousands of worshippers attend prayers and services there every week. 

Imam Johari Abdul-Malik, outreach director at Dar al Hijrah, said he did not know whether Hasan ever attended the mosque but confirmed that the Hasan family participated in services there. Abdul-Malik said the Hasans were not leaders at the mosque and their attendance was normal. 

The London Telegraph first reported the potential link between Hasan and the mosque. 

Sen. Joe Lieberman said Sunday he wants Congress to determine whether the shootings constitute a terrorist attack and whether warning signs that Hasan was embracing an increasingly extremist view of Islamic ideology were missed. 

Classmates who participated in a 2007-2008 master's program at a military college told The Associated Press that they complained to faculty during the program about what they considered to be Hasan's anti-American views, which included his giving a presentation that justified suicide bombing and telling classmates that Islamic law trumped the U.S. Constitution. 

"If Hasan was showing signs, saying to people that he had become an Islamist extremist, the U.S. Army has to have zero tolerance," Lieberman, an independent from Connecticut, said on "Fox News Sunday." "He should have been gone." 

Army Chief of Staff Gen. George Casey said Sunday it's important for the country not to get caught up in speculation about Hasan's Muslim faith, and he has instructed his commanders to be on the lookout for anti-Muslim reaction to the killings at the Texas post. 

Casey, who appeared on ABC's "This Week" and CNN's "State of the Union," said evidence to this point shows that Hasan acted alone. 

President Barack Obama is scheduled to attend a memorial service Tuesday honoring victims of the attack. Lt. Gen. Robert Cone, the post commander, said the service will include a roll call of names of the dead and a 21-gun salute. 

Fort Hood officials said the country's largest military installation was moving forward with the business of soldiering. The building where Hasan allegedly opened fire remains a crime scene, but a processing center is scheduled to reopen Thursday in a new, temporary location. 

Command Sgt. Maj. Arthur L. Coleman Jr. said Monday that reopening the center is an important step in returning the Army post to normal. Cone said the post stepped up security, including suspending visits by the public, largely to reassure the population that the sprawling base is safe and won't "become a battlefield." 

Sgt. 1st Class Frank Minnie was in the processing center last week getting some health tests and immunizations in preparation for his deployment. Minnie said that even after the shootings, Fort Hood soldiers have the attitude that "the mission still goes on." 

"Everybody's going to grieve a little bit. It hurts a lot because it's one of your battle buddies, and someone lost a mom, dad, brother or sister," said Minnie, 37, who served in Iraq in 2006. "But it doesn't change my perspective of going to war. I've got a job to do." 

___ 

Associated Press writers Mike Baker in Killeen, Texas; Allen Breed and Jeff Carlton at Fort Hood; Michelle Roberts in San Antonio; Eileen Sulivan and Devlin Barrett in Washington; Ben Nuckols in Baltimore; Matthew Barakat in McLean, Va.; and Ahmed al-Haj in San-a, Yamen, contributed to this report.

----------


## eliteforce

one thing no-one mentioned is that Hasan had been trying to get out of the military for about 8 years, pretty much since the 'war on terror' started (he had joined before the war) so not only did they ignor the warning signs about his internet posts or whatever, they refused to let him out for his conscious objection to the wars, then he got scheduled to goto iraq, after hearing a 100 horror stories from his patients .. people ask why would they do this, some comentators have blamed "political correctness" but that is not the reason; simple reason-at this point the US military will take anyone and won't let anyone out, they won't even let people out who have done the time they were told they were required to do..

what is madness is fighting 2 endless wars with a volunteer army because politians don't have the guts to make a decision, either end wars or draft. if the people do not beleive in the wars enough to make military service compulsory what business does a country have to be involved in it.

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## TITANIUM

> one thing no-one mentioned is that Hasan had been trying to get out of the military for about 8 years, pretty much since the 'war on terror' started (he had joined before the war) so not only did they ignor the warning signs about his internet posts or whatever, they refused to let him out for his conscious objection to the wars, then he got scheduled to goto iraq, after hearing a 100 horror stories from his patients .. people ask why would they do this, some comentators have blamed "political correctness" but that is not the reason; simple reason-at this point the US military will take anyone and won't let anyone out, they won't even let people out who have done the time they were told they were required to do..
> 
> what is madness is fighting 2 endless wars with a volunteer army because politians don't have the guts to make a decision, either end wars or draft. if the people do not beleive in the wars enough to make military service compulsory what business does a country have to be involved in it.




Yes, I agree with that.

You can't fight these types of wars this way.

You have to go in, do it as quickly and precisely as possible, and get the fvck out.

This is all bullshit.

It is reality, that wars are one by body counts.

And there will be collateral damage.

Have you noticed that when you fight a war on foreign soil, against a society of people, that are not afraid of dying,(for what they believe in), you don't do very well.

It's all about that big piece of pie. In this case the OIL!

Anyways, back on point.

Even though this lunatic wanted to get out of the US service, makes no excuses for killing fellow soldiers on US soil.

He, in effect, killed himself by doing this.

And it was pre-meditated.

He would not have seen combat over there anyways.

Psychiatrist are not deployed into combat.

I hope they kill this guy and get it over with.

Best

T

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## Nooomoto

> one thing no-one mentioned is that Hasan had been trying to get out of the military for about 8 years, pretty much since the 'war on terror' started (he had joined before the war) .


That sounds like bullshit, sorry dude. Trying to get out for 8 years? I don't think so. It's not that difficult to get out of the military if you don't want to be there. I'd like to see proof of this claim.

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## eliteforce

it was in one of the articles that he had been trying to get out for some time, the problem is that the military training him in his medical profession makes it harder to get out because he's supposed to pay back that debt with service, he started offering to pay back the amount of the training but it doesn't work that way and it's not allowed..

but even with normal lower trained military since the war started there has been the stoploss-which kept people in the military even after their agreed 4 or 6 year tour expired, and they had even went so far as to call back into service people that had been discharged in the early 1990's .. all of this the US government claims to have the right to do, like if you sign up they own you for the rest of your life..

The system during vietnam was so much better-you woud get drafted, goto basic training, i guess thats about 3 months, and do 1 year in vietnam,and that was it, there were no stoploss or callbacks.. 

none of the people that signed up for 4 or 6 years thought it was possible for the government to violate the agreement it signed with them, even though they knew that if they violated the agreement they would goto jail , but the government can suddenly invent this stoploss rule and do callbacks and all of that was somehow legal..

ofcource this isn't justification for a shooting massacre but the point is that in this system you wind up with people that shouldn't be there, in this case there was a legitimate conscious objection issue, conscious objection has to be controlled otherwise half the army would use it, but in a case like this it would be appropriate to discharge after they determine that he is not just doing it to get out of service but because the current conflict in incompatible with his beliefs..

if there is a draft the military will not be so desperate to keep people on that are potentially dangerous or incompetent, the way the system works now they are basically forced to con people into joining with aggressive recruiting, sales pitches, and misleading information, when they do things like stoploss then even less people want to join, who wants to join the military for life?

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## Nooomoto

> it was in one of the articles that he had been trying to get out for some time, the problem is that the military training him in his medical profession makes it harder to get out because he's supposed to pay back that debt with service, he started offering to pay back the amount of the training but it doesn't work that way and it's not allowed..
> 
> but even with normal lower trained military since the war started there has been the stoploss-which kept people in the military even after their agreed 4 or 6 year tour expired, and they had even went so far as to call back into service people that had been discharged in the early 1990's .. all of this the US government claims to have the right to do, like if you sign up they own you for the rest of your life..
> 
> The system during vietnam was so much better-you woud get drafted, goto basic training, i guess thats about 3 months, and do 1 year in vietnam,and that was it, there were no stoploss or callbacks.. 
> 
> none of the people that signed up for 4 or 6 years thought it was possible for the government to violate the agreement it signed with them, even though they knew that if they violated the agreement they would goto jail , but the government can suddenly invent this stoploss rule and do callbacks and all of that was somehow legal..
> 
> ofcource this isn't justification for a shooting massacre but the point is that in this system you wind up with people that shouldn't be there, in this case there was a legitimate conscious objection issue, conscious objection has to be controlled otherwise half the army would use it, but in a case like this it would be appropriate to discharge after they determine that he is not just doing it to get out of service but because the current conflict in incompatible with his beliefs..
> ...


Yeah, I still don't buy it though. I'll believe he had been trying to not get deployed for years, but not that he was "trying" to get out of the Army for years. I know plenty of people with plenty more training dollars into them than that guy has, and they didn't have problems getting out. If you REALLY want out, there's plenty of ways to get out...honorable or not, and they don't involve killing people unarmed Americans in a room, most of which who weren't even in combat arms units.

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## eliteforce

just a few months ago there was another guy involved in the military psyc ward that stormed in and shot dead a bunch of people.. remember-but that was a white christian guy who did it so they only talked about it in the news for about 2 days, but funny how on that one there wasn't nearly as much lambasting about it.. 

this time they talk abot it endlessly and obama just had this big ceremony broadcast on live on national television in which he says "It may be hard to comprehend the twisted logic that led to this tragedy, but this much we do know - no faith justifies these murderous and craven acts; no just and loving God looks upon them with favour,"

and they will be talking about it daily for at least another week in the american media..

in other words since this massacrer was arab, they jump at the chance to use it for war propaganda , especially with support for the 2 wars dropping off, they think they can get a boost out of this.

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## Kratos

> just a few months ago there was another guy involved in the military psyc ward that stormed in and shot dead a bunch of people.. remember-but that was a white christian guy who did it so they only talked about it in the news for about 2 days, but funny how on that one there wasn't nearly as much lambasting about it.. 
> 
> this time they talk abot it endlessly and obama just had this big ceremony broadcast on live on national television in which he says "It may be hard to comprehend the twisted logic that led to this tragedy, but this much we do know - no faith justifies these murderous and craven acts; no just and loving God looks upon them with favour,"
> 
> and they will be talking about it daily for at least another week in the american media..
> 
> in other words since this massacrer was arab, they jump at the chance to use it for war propaganda , especially with support for the 2 wars dropping off, they think they can get a boost out of this.


It must be because he has brown skin and worships allah. and we don't run anti whitey stories in the us.  :Hmmmm: 
Or maybe the circumstances are totally different.

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## Bull_Nuts

> I think he did more damage to his own image by doing this. It was an embarrassing address at best. If you think he can tip toe through a land mine field, in the dark, with snow shoes own, then he is truly GOD, and the Islams are the true answer.LOL
> 
> Best
> 
> T


Its kinda like police in a fire fight calling for backup and the police chief saying "ill get back to you in a couple months"

Fvcking bullshit...too busy being PC...

Now that Obama is chin deep in $hit he can't admit that all of his priorities are in the wrong place....how in the world is this killeen incident, our economy and the war on terror second to healthcare reform...its all about
AND how is it, that Obama thinks healthcare overhaul is the key to fixing this broken economy? Is this guy retarded? or Is he just reading his tele prompter??? ALL of you know MY position.

How many impeachable offenses has he committed? Surely there is a way to get this guy out of office...

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## TITANIUM

[QUOTE=Bull_Nuts;4945073]Its kinda like police in a fire fight calling for backup and the police chief saying "ill get back to you in a couple months"

Fvcking bullshit...too busy being PC...

Now that Obama is chin deep in $hit he can't admit that all of his priorities are in the wrong place....how in the world is this killeen incident, our economy and the war on terror second to healthcare reform...its all about
AND how is it, that Obama thinks healthcare overhaul is the key to fixing this broken economy? Is this guy retarded? or Is he just reading his tele prompter??? ALL of you know MY position.

How many impeachable offenses has he committed? Surely there is a way to get this guy out of office...


I'm actually been studying this alot. There seems to be a way, but it is still unclear how "We the people", can exercise it.I do know it has to be done through congress and senatorial hearings and votes.If it can be done, I'll find out.Short of an upheaval, by the people, I'm not sure as of yet.

Impeachment in the United States, United States presidential line of succession, and Twenty-fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution
Vacancies in the office of President may arise under several possible circumstances: death, resignation and removal from office.

Article II, Section 4 of the Constitution allows the House of Representatives to impeach high federal officials, including the President, for "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors." Article I, Section 3, Clause 6 gives the Senate the power to remove impeached officials from office, given a two-thirds vote to convict. Two Presidents have thus far been impeached by the House, Andrew Johnson in 1868 and Bill Clinton in 1998. Neither was subsequently convicted by the Senate; however, Johnson was acquitted by just one vote.

Under Section 3 of the Twenty-fifth Amendment, the President may transfer the presidential powers and duties to the Vice President, who then becomes Acting President, by transmitting a statement to the Speaker of the House and the President pro tempore of the Senate stating the reasons for the transfer. The President resumes the discharge of the presidential powers and duties when he transmits, to those two officials, a written declaration stating that resumption. This transfer of power may occur for any reason the President considers appropriate; in 2002 and again in 2007, President George W. Bush briefly transferred Presidential authority to Vice President Dick Cheney. In both cases, this was done to accommodate a medical procedure which required Bush to be sedated; Bush returned to duty later the same day.[10]

Under Section 4 of the Twenty-fifth Amendment, the Vice President and a majority of the Cabinet may transfer the presidential powers and duties from the President to the Vice President once they transmit to the Speaker of the House and the President pro tempore of the Senate a statement declaring the President's incapacity to discharge the presidential powers and duties. If this occurs, then the Vice President will assume the presidential powers and duties as Acting President; however, the President can declare that no such inability exists and resume the discharge of the presidential powers and duties. If the Vice President and Cabinet contest this claim, it is up to Congress, which must meet within two days if not already in session, to decide the merit of the claim.

The United States Constitution mentions the resignation of the President but does not regulate the form of such a resignation or the conditions for its validity. By Act of Congress, the only valid evidence of the President's decision to resign is a written instrument declaring the resignation signed by the President and delivered to the office of the Secretary of State.[11] On August 9, 1974, facing likely impeachment in the midst of the Watergate scandal, Richard Nixon became the only President ever to resign from office. Just before his resignation, the House Judiciary Committee had reported favorably on articles of impeachment against him.

The Constitution states that the Vice President becomes President upon the removal from office, death or resignation of the preceding President. If the offices of President and Vice President both are either vacant or have a disabled holder of that office, the next officer in the Presidential line of succession, the Speaker of the House, becomes Acting President. The line extends to the President pro tempore of the Senate after the Speaker, followed by every member of the Cabinet in a set order.


Best

T

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## TITANIUM

> Its kinda like police in a fire fight calling for backup and the police chief saying "ill get back to you in a couple months"
> 
> Fvcking bullshit...too busy being PC...
> 
> Now that Obama is chin deep in $hit he can't admit that all of his priorities are in the wrong place....how in the world is this killeen incident, our economy and the war on terror second to healthcare reform...its all about
> AND how is it, that Obama thinks healthcare overhaul is the key to fixing this broken economy? Is this guy retarded? or Is he just reading his tele prompter??? ALL of you know MY position.
> 
> How many impeachable offenses has he committed? Surely there is a way to get this guy out of office...




You do know that BgMc will turn this into a black man thing.(No offense BgMc).I thought Busch sucked. Obama makes Busch look like a quire boy.And that's just unacceptable.His prioritizing of things is just dismal at best..

Best

T

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## Bull_Nuts

> You do know that BgMc will turn this into a black man thing.(No offense BgMc).I thought Busch sucked. Obama makes Busch look like a quire boy.And that's just unacceptable.His prioritizing of things is just dismal at best..
> 
> Best
> 
> T


Yea...speaking of...where is good ol Little Mac? Spin it on us...typical...what else could he possibly say?

Im just looking at the 'facts o' obama'

-has made racism worse...not better...playing the racist card himself...his whole campaign centered on the 'hope' and 'change' issue which is directly based on the years of oppression "whitey" subjected "other" races to...Perfect approach...(considering all blacks will vote for him and majority of whites will too because they feel guilty for what their fore-fathers did in the since the dawn of other races) -*add moment*...im thinking back to an old college prof of mine that specialized in slavery history and the majority of slaves were treated very well...(what is difference between the military and slavery? i can think of only two things...military is voluntary until you sign on the dotted line and you get out eventually...everything else is the same)

-solely acts on issues based on re-election

-won't decide anyway that will possibly negatively affect him (though he doesn't realize acting swiftly and with full confidence would be met with greater respect wether it is the right or wrong choice)

-does not care about this country....as evidenced by immigration issues, foreign policy, and economic armagedon

-is a poser and is racist against "whitey" and even himself...totaly turning his back on his white heritage(how can any african-american respect him for pretending like he is not half white?)

-pushes a socialist agenda because he has no faith in himself and has to have total physical control of this country and its people to feel accomplished by not allowing the people to have their god given rights-thinks he has to force people to do and feel like him instead of allowing them to do and feel like him....he is almost like a bully (although passive)..."i cant get people to like me so I will force them to like me"

-Whole campain is driven on past failures and are extremely opposite of those. He is constrained by this...He doesn't realize that its not just a yes/no situation and just because the other guy was wrong doesn't mean the opposite is right.

-Cant add or subtract...actually I take that back...he as added to the national debt and subtracted the value of the USD.

-His head is like windsheild wipers....take note....left teleprompter....right teleprompter....left teleprompter....right teleprompter....laughted my a$$ off when he about slipped a disc in his neck when Joe Wilson called him out.

-Wont accept reality and tackle it head on. I mean...sh1t happens...even though i don't agree with his policy (and before BgMc or Flagg beat me to it Im going to call out myself) and I hate all colors in the rainbow except the shades spanning from white to dark peach(though I love the pretty seniorita's BUT ONLY ones who speak english and have immigrated legally)....I would respect him a whole hell of a lot more if he faced up to the issues did what was right.

-Is a hypocrit...ugh wait, wait, wait....im just gonna quit....im rambling and basically saying the same things in multiple variations and I have to prepare myself for the firestorm....


in a nutshell.....good speaker....bad president....and has set a negative precident for all future african american presidential candidates that will never die


There is nothing more to say...Im gonna just copy and paste that....everything, every issue, every day....same $hit....nothing more to say....


SOMEONE sedate me until this crap is over! Or better yet...kill me...there is no way anyone will make this better...not even if God comes down and creates a new world...he has put the icing on the cake....its OVER!

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## BgMc31

Funny how I haven't even posted on this thread and it's turned into a black man thing. Hmmmmm, interesting....

Nice dig Bull Nuts, calling me little Mac, considering mentally and physically I'm bigger than you. Don't turn this into insults. I can totally decimate your non-sensical post above, but it will be a waste of time. People like you are beyond repair. You'll never see other points of view besides your narrow one. Saying some slaves were treated well, well tanks a lot massa, I's be real good fo you...absurd. I guess since they were treated well it was ok then, right? And comparing slavery to the military, we do have an ALL VOLUNTEER service.

Titanium, why even go there when this has been posted for days now and I've said nothing about race. You say, no offense, but offense is definitely taken. I thought you and I have had extensive convos about this.

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## xlxBigSexyxlx

LOL BgMc... ev1 always has to hate on the brotha
but I like ya, you're a cool cat.

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## TITANIUM

Bro, just take some deep breaths into and out of a paper bag.

People that think that there can not be a revolution in this country are not in touch with reality.

It can happen.

Maybe, it needs to happen.

Wouldn't be the first time.

Refreshing the tree of liberty from time to time is needed.

Governments that try to "overly control" a people eventually loose there control of them, and are overthrown.

History dictates this to be a fact.

Best

T

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## TITANIUM

> Funny how I haven't even posted on this thread and it's turned into a black man thing. Hmmmmm, interesting....
> 
> Nice dig Bull Nuts, calling me little Mac, considering mentally and physically I'm bigger than you. Don't turn this into insults. I can totally decimate your non-sensical post above, but it will be a waste of time. People like you are beyond repair. You'll never see other points of view besides your narrow one. Saying some slaves were treated well, well tanks a lot massa, I's be real good fo you...absurd. I guess since they were treated well it was ok then, right? And comparing slavery to the military, we do have an ALL VOLUNTEER service.
> 
> Titanium, why even go there when this has been posted for days now and I've said nothing about race. You say, no offense, but offense is definitely taken. I thought you and I have had extensive convos about this.


I was just saying that it would turn into such.

I did not know it would go off onto such a tangent.

The reason why is that is because he,( Obama), is black, it turns into a racially biased thing.

If he was white, I'd be trashing him myself.(like Busch).

It was kinda supposed to be a running joke.

If I had known this, I would not have posted this in such a manner.

Yourself and Bullnuts have both educated backgrounds and bring interesting subjects to the table.

I openly apologize here in the open forum if this has offended you.

Best

T

----------


## Flagg

Ugh, did I see someone mention the word "socialism" or in this case "Obama = socialism"?

You know, most people here claim to know what is going on, that they're not blind, they see what the government is doing and that they have their shed full of rifles and shotguns ready to fire at the tank baring down on them.

But every time someone says the word Muslim, Socialism, Communism, Terrorism and you do the knee jerk reaction of shitting your pants, you play more and more into the so called hands you're against, that don't worry the government will protect you from words like Muslim and Socialite and so on. ****ing sheep. Carry on letting the media wipe your ass and scaring you.

I don't want to rain on anyones parade, but how do you propose a revolution would even work in America today? If the military wants to bomb you from altitude, wtf is your shotgun going to do? No im not saying i'd roll over and admit defeat but things are totally different now than during the American Civil War.

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## TITANIUM

> Ugh, did I see someone mention the word "socialism" or in this case "Obama = socialism"?
> 
> You know, most people here claim to know what is going on, that they're not blind, they see what the government is doing and that they have their shed full of rifles and shotguns ready to fire at the tank baring down on them.
> 
> But every time someone says the word Muslim, Socialism, Communism, Terrorism and you do the knee jerk reaction of shitting your pants, you play more and more into the so called hands you're against, that don't worry the government will protect you from words like Muslim and Socialite and so on. ****ing sheep. Carry on letting the media wipe your ass and scaring you.
> 
> I don't want to rain on anyones parade, but how do you propose a revolution would even work in America today? If the military wants to bomb you from altitude, wtf is your shotgun going to do? No im not saying i'd roll over and admit defeat but things are totally different now than during the American Civil War.


It wouldn't be fought by regular means, but probably just massive non-compliance with what is imposed upon us.

This country is divided on all this BS that this government has been jamming down our throats.

The US will never drop bombs on US soil.

Martial law may be imposed at some point, with some blood shed, but nothing full blown.

I respect you Flagg, but I think there is something everyone here can agree on:

It's all going to shit, and it has been for sometime now.

The only thing we might not see eye to eye on is how it will happen.

Pick your poison on that one.

I feel safer knowing there is a 12 guage on the wall and a 45 on the dresser.

Just my piece of mind I guess.

Best

T

----------


## Flagg

> It wouldn't be fought by regular means, but probably just massive non-compliance with what is imposed upon us.
> 
> This country is divided on all this BS that this government has been jamming down our throats.
> 
> The US will never drop bombs on US soil.
> 
> Martial law may be imposed at some point, with some blood shed, but nothing full blown.
> 
> I respect you Flagg, but I think there is something everyone here can agree on:
> ...



Yeah I know, better to have a gun and not need it then not have a gun and need one. It would have to take an enormous amount of "oomph" from the masses to force change, which I don't doubt some people would be down with. I think a lot of the masses are so molly-coddled now that they'd never dare change the status quo. It's astonishing how lazy and scared the Media and Governmnet has made the general masses and how dependable we've become on them.

----------


## Flagg

Some of you may have heard him, im a huge admirer of the man but Christopher Hitchens has unearthed 7 facts about the good Major that surely should have warranted earlier investigation. He also highlights how inept the FBI have been in all of this and how, justifiably, before anyone starts trying to defend his actions to consider this, that once upon a time black people were segregated, jewish recruits were hazed and women and gay men were simply never taken seriously and mocked. 

Yes, racism DOES occur in the Military, boo effing hoo. But did any of these groups respond by blasting the shit out of everyone? I think not. Full article (it's quite long, but a interesting article) and Seven Points about this guy that should have been looked into sooner below:

_The admonition not to rush to judgment or jump to conclusions might sound fair and prudent enough, perhaps even statesmanlike when uttered by the president, as long it's borne in mind that such advice is itself a judgment that is more than halfway to a conclusion. What it plainly implies in the present case is that the actions of Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan should not be assumed in any meaningful way to be related to his Muslim faith.

Perfect subjective knowledge of the major's possibly disordered mind is not available to me, but nor is it available to the host of damage-control commentators and FBI drones who have had things mostly their own way so far. In order to demonstrate the absence of a connection, however, the following facts would have to be regarded as relatively random or secondary:_

*1) Hasan had been in direct correspondence with a notorious preacher of violence, Anwar al-Awlaki, whose enthusiasm for the teachings and actions of al-Qaida has long been well-known to researchers and intelligence agencies.

2) He bought weapons for himself well in advance of a murderous assault on unarmed soldiers awaiting treatment at a clinic—people to whom, in addition to his responsibilities as a human being, he also owed, as a physician, a sworn duty of care.

3) As he unleashed his volleys, he yelled the universal cry of jihad, "Allahu akbar!" or "God is great!" (The eyewitnesses on this point, originally doubted, are especially convincing since some of them didn't understand the meaning of the words and only sought to reproduce them phonetically.) On his business card, he described himself described as "SOA" or "slave," or possibly, "soldier of Allah." Neither would be especially reassuring in this context.

4) He had attracted considerable attention by repeatedly using his postgraduate classes at the Uniformed Service University in Bethesda, Md., for the purpose of Islamic proselytizing, for a version of Islam that, to say the least, did not overemphasize it as a "religion of peace."

5) He had, in spoken and written communications, demonstrated a fascination with the love of death and the concept of suicide martyrdom (better described as suicide murder) that is the central concept of Bin Ladenism.* 

*6) Though he may have been upset by the harrowing stories of returned soldiers—as many, many of us have been, incidentally—his overwhelming and reiterated objection to the war against the Taliban in Afghanistan, and al-Qaida in Iraq, is that it is "a war on Islam." It might be worth noting that this means that the Taliban does represent Islam, whereas the current governments of Iraq and Afghanistan somehow do not—a core belief of the Islamic purists who use the dogma of takfir to excommunicate such Muslims and render them liable, along with many other kind of infidel, to holy slaughter.

7) He seems to have been especially obsessed with the Quranic injunction that forbids devout Muslims to make allies with Christians and Jews.*

_The above list is not exhaustive, but I would submit that five of the seven items (the first and the last four) would have been grounds to have had him either put under close surveillance or dismissed from the service. Proselytizing in uniform, for example, is already banned by a general order. To be "inclusive," the United States armed forces must exclude or discipline those who oppose inclusion. This, of course, goes for zealots of all faiths, and it won't do to point out that it isn't always universally applied. The Hasan atrocity makes such an application more urgent, not less.

What about the emphasis on Hasan's supposedly knife-edge mental state? Well, even supposing it to have been precarious, it can hardly have been improved by immersion in the rantings of Anwar al-Awlaki. I do not say that all practitioners of woman-hating, anti-Semitic, sadomasochistic suicide immolations are themselves insane, but I do say that the teaching itself is demented. In the same way, I do not say that all Muslims are terrorists, but I have noticed that an alarmingly high proportion of terrorists are Muslim. A paranoid or depressive person—of whom we have many millions in our midst—does not have to end up screaming religious slogans while butchering his fellow creatures. But a paranoid or depressive person who is in regular touch with a jihadist "spiritual leader" is presented with a ready-made script that offers him paradise in exchange for homicide.

All right, then, wasn't the gallant major also subject to ill treatment and even abuse? Only up to a point, when you consider that his parents had been given refuge from Palestine and enabled to build a life here, that he himself had knowingly joined an all-volunteer army, that he had been promoted (it seems rather faster and higher than his true abilities warranted) and allowed on the job to vent extremely noxious opinions about members of other faiths, to say nothing about his adopted country. No doubt he came in for a taunt or two, but if you want to avoid that, then don't express contempt for your fellow soldiers while in uniform. Black Americans used to be segregated. Jewish recruits were mercilessly hazed, as were men or women who looked as if they might be gay. Did any of them ever come up with an act of mass murder as a response? Did any of them ever offer a black or Jewish or gay ideology in justification of it? Would they have earned sympathy and understanding if they had? By the time the mushy "pre-post-traumatic" school was done with the story, Maj. Hasan was not just acquitted of being a bad Muslim. He was more or less exonerated of having even done a bad deed.

This is not at all a matter of the usual stupid refusal of the FBI and other security services to understand an early warning even when they have detected one. It is a direct challenge to the unity and integrity of the armed services, which have been one of our society's principal organs and engines of ethnic and religious integration. A U.S. soldier who wonders about the reliability of his, let alone her, Muslim colleague is not being "Islamophobic." (A phobia is an irrational or uncontrollable fear.) If Maj. Hasan has made this understandable worry in the ranks more widespread, he has done his fanatical preacher friend the greatest possible service. But that's his fault for doing what he did, and his superiors' fault for letting him openly rehearse it for so long, not mine for pointing it out.

I wrote some years ago that the three most salient characteristics of the Muslim death-squad type were self-righteousness, self-pity, and self-hatred. Surrounded as he was by fellow shrinks who were often very distressed by his menacing manner, Maj. Hasan managed to personify all three traits—with the theocratic rhetoric openly thrown in for good measure—and yet be treated even now as if the real word for him was troubled. Prepare to keep on meeting those three symptoms again, along with official attempts to oppose them only with therapy, if that. At least the holy warriors know they are committing suicide.

_

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## Bull_Nuts

> Funny how I haven't even posted on this thread and it's turned into a black man thing. Hmmmmm, interesting....
> 
> Nice dig Bull Nuts, calling me little Mac, considering mentally and physically I'm bigger than you. Don't turn this into insults. I can totally decimate your non-sensical post above, but it will be a waste of time. People like you are beyond repair. You'll never see other points of view besides your narrow one. Saying some slaves were treated well, well tanks a lot massa, I's be real good fo you...absurd. I guess since they were treated well it was ok then, right? And comparing slavery to the military, we do have an ALL VOLUNTEER service.
> 
> Titanium, why even go there when this has been posted for days now and I've said nothing about race. You say, no offense, but offense is definitely taken. I thought you and I have had extensive convos about this.


1-"IRONY" look it up...

2-


> Nice dig Bull Nuts, calling me little Mac, considering mentally and physically I'm bigger than you. Don't turn this into insults. I can totally decimate your non-sensical post above, but it will be a waste of time.


 How would you know you are mentally and physically bigger than me....that in itself is "non-sensical" besides...I doub't you are...that's neither here nor there.

3-when i listed the differences between slavery and military im pretty sure i said something about military being voluntary 

Big Mac with mayo, lettuce, cheese, pickles, hold the cheese, common sense and lack of humor...

You really make my day....the best part of waking up is bgmc replying to my post...


Luv u man....nuts~!

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## old-grunt11series

you don't have to be Muslim to be a threat. anyone remember an ex US Army sergeant named Timothy Mc Veigh?

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