# COMPETITIVE BODYBUILDING - POWERLIFTING - ATHLETICS & SPORTS > POWERLIFTING FORUM >  Smolov Vs. 5x5

## kdawg21

So I want to open this up for a little discussion. I have tried both the smolov routine and Glenn Pendlay's version of the 5x5 during breaks from conjugate training. I found the 5x5 to be more productive, simply because it decreases the chances of overtraining. Smolov is designed for lifters who only want to increase the squat and unless you are dosing heavily it is best to put all other lifts into to neutral for the duration of the program. While I did find that I increased my total squat poundage more during the smolov cycle, I found that over-all strength increases were greater during the 5x5 program. I am sure others have had different experiences and I would like to see a little discussion on the topic.

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## Velkar182

Are you talking about Smolov's squat routine with two meso cycle, wave training which ends each phase with two Max effort days in the same week?

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## kdawg21

yep thats the one, the copy that I used I got off a strong man site somewhere and it was just slightly different but it was still almost inhuman, I couldnt recover in time and I always felt sluggish.

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## Velkar182

Let me just say that that frickin program requires every thing you've got and more. If you ask anyone here that knows how much volume I work with (w/o aas) they'd say I am psycho, but Smolov's Russian Leg routine is unmanageable without aas. I've even done Bulgarian Block with two work outs day everyday for three weeks. I couldn't do Smolov's. The percentages are nuts and the endurance is nuts. I was going to try it again since I'm using aas now. Some times I look at it and think it's Tom Platz's* dream* routine.

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## Doc.Sust

yeah i was considering giving the smoilov a whirl, but using the smolov junior method(there are more sets and less reps , ) alos possibly droping the percentages down maybe 10%

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## Doc.Sust

someone,please post a copy of the 5x5 routine

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## Velkar182

I was going to wait until late next year when I am on, say, my fourth cycle. I have a bunch of tricks I was thinking of using to speed up recovery, like deep tissue massages and suction cups and some other things my wife has been studying up on. Aren't those percentages crazy?

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## OldUncle

I've done both many times. Smolov is as brutal as it looks if you start with your real 1RM and aren't used to higher volume. But it flat works. You need 13 weeks where you don't care about anything but getting your squat numbers up (you can do some BP, but it would be difficult to put a lot of energy into it), and at least 2 weeks to recover from the routine before you go back to normal workouts.

Every time I've done it, I burned bodyfat off like crazy, no matter how much I ate. You'll also need some juice if you are over 35, IMO. 5x5 is more tolerant of moving you bench and pull along at the same time.

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## Velkar182

No fvcking way! If you've done this, you're not a natty powerlifter. I squat just over 800 (single ply) and on the opening phase I'd have to squat 5sets of 7 with around 600. Sorry, but usually work up to my max or a little more by competition. I might be able to do that in week 8 or beyond, but so what I'd have to do that virtually 3 times in a single week. My last training cycle I hit 650 in week 7 or 8 for a triple using WSB training. A body builder has a better chance of doing this routine without juice because they train for reps and they can's squat much more than what they can get for 8. Juice is require unless you are obsessed with reps like a bber.

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## kdawg21

5x5 is just a generic name for the program Glenn's Version is designed more for oly lifters, the version that I linked below is just one of many that I have seen. I was reading another forum the other day that Glenn Posts in so you might find more info in there, I think it was midwest barbell or something similar. But here is one version

http://forum.dutchbodybuilding.com/f...version-63774/

I was looking over the Smolov program and something struck me as odd, I was reading an older article by either Louie Simmons or Dave Tate not too long ago and I remember reading about muscle recruitment patterns. The premise of the article centered around how many fibers an an advanced lifter can recruit for a given lift. I think the author made the assertion that an advanced lifter would recruit around 77% (it could be higher or lower I really dont remember) of the desired muscle fibers in a given maximal effort lift, while beginners would use much less. The point was later made that for some reason associated with this advanced lifters could lift 85-90 percent the same number of times they could lift 100% or above. While I think this phenomenom may only be associated with west-side style lifters it still does not fit well for someone switching to the smolov type training program, which could go a long way to explain why the Smolov program gives me such fits.

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## OldUncle

> No fvcking way! If you've done this, you're not a natty powerlifter.


You've got to build up to the volume, especially if you've been WSBing for a while. The 2-week 'intro' cycle isn't long enough to build up the endurance needed to make it through. Best bet if you are out of shape is to subtract 25% from your max and do the whole routine once, then repeat with your real 1RM.

OTOH, there's no assistance work in Smolov, and no pulling. I bet if you add up the total volume of all the exerciess in most lifters work weeks, you'd be getting close to the prescribed volume. It sucks, no doubt about it, but it pays off.

OTOOH, All of the Russian IPF team is 'on', all the time. I've never tried Smolov without a lot of vitamin T.

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