# MEMBERS EXPERIENCES > OVER 40 FORUM >  Bitch tit's?

## snowman

I'm currently, on a cycle, with delastyl, and winny.... currently, i have the so called " bitch tit's" , i had that before, on a previous cycle, i did, but after it went away.... this time, i have the same thing, but this time i also have a dark liquid coming out of my nipples, whenever i press on the nipple... do you know what that is?, is that normal from a cycle? Have you ever heard, of this happening to anyone else before?, Talked with a coule of my friends ,and know one knows what that is.

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## Ajax

Sounds like symptoms of Gyno!

Check out http://www.gynecomastia.org for more info.

ALWAYS use anti-estrogens! The only cure for gyno once you get it is surgery to remove the breast tissue!

*Q: What is gyno (gynecomastia) / bitch tits? What are the symptoms of gyno?*

A: Gynecomastia (commonly referred to as gyno or bitch tits) is the enlargement of the breast tissue in males. It can occur naturally in puberty or old age and results from an imbalance in estrogen action relative to androgen action at the breast tissue level. 

Steroid can increase the level of estrogen in the body which causes gyno. 

The symptoms of gyno are: swelling and tenderness of the nipples and breast tissue or itchiness of the nipples. If you experience these symptoms, treat them immediately! Once breast tissue forms, it is permanent! For treating the symptoms of gyno once they occur, see the note on Nolvadex below.

For pictures and more information on gyno, see  gynecomastia.org.

*Q: What is Nolvadex / Arimidex / Liquidex / Proviron? How do I prevent gyno / bitch tits?*

A: Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate), Arimidex / Liquidex (anastrozole) and Proviron (mesterlone) all act as _anti-estrogens_ (sometimes called anti-es). 

Estrogen is naturally found in the male body in small amounts, however, when taking certain steroids , an excess of estrogen can be created through a process called _aromitization_. This abnormally large concentration of estrogen can cause some undesirable side effects, such as enlargement of the breasts (commonly referred to as gyno or bitch tits), female pattern fat distribution and water retention. (Gyno can also be caused by high concentrations of estrogen relative the your bodys level of testosterone , so gyno can be problem all the way through the end of Clomid therapy.)

Not all people who use steroids experience any estrogen related problems. Many people have taken many cycles at high dosages without using any anti-estrogens and have reported that they experienced no symptoms of gyno. Other people can take a small dose of steroids for one cycle and develop noticeable enlargement of the breast. 

Estrogen can be blocked in two ways: you can block it from aromatizing, or you can block it from binding to the estrogen receptors in the body.

Nolvadex prevents estrogen from binding to the estrogen receptors in the body. Nolvadex is generally taken _ only if and when symptoms of gyno appear._ The typical dosage is 80mg the first day, 40mg every day until the symptoms subside and 20mg a day through the end of Clomid therapy. If you are taking low-moderate doses of steroids (200-600mg a week falls into that class) you can halve the Nolvadex dose.

Arimidex, Liquidex and Proviron all function as aromatase inhibitors and work by blocking estrogen from forming. Most body builders prefer to block the estrogen from forming, because in addition to preventing gyno, it also decreases water retention and keeps the body looking harder. Typical dosages for Arimidex are 0.25 mg a day to 0.5mg a day, with 0.25mg a day being average. Proviron is typically taken at a dosage of 50mg a day. 

ALWAYS have an anti-estrogen on hand when you take steroids! Tits look great--but not on men! Even if you take an aromatase inhibitor like Arimidex or Proviron, you should keep some Nolvadex on hand just in case the dose you are taking is too low and you start to see symptoms of gyno appear.

*Q: If I Start having Symptoms of Gyno and I dont have an anti-estrogen, should I just stop taking steroids?*

A: Stopping your cycle won't fix the problem. Why?

1) You will still have estrogen in your body, so the tit-building continues. 

2) You will still have steroids in your body for the next 2-3 weeks that will convert to estrogen, so the tit-building continues. 

3) After all the steroids are metabolized your testosterone will be near zero and your body's natural estrogen levels will be high (yes, your body does produce some estrogen), which also means that tit-building will continue.

Stopping the steroids will not stop gyno. Anti-estrogens stop gyno.

If you don't take an aromatase inhibitor during your cycle like Arimidex or Proviron ALWAYS have some Nolvadex on hand. Even if you do use aromatase inhibitors, having Nolvadex on hand is still a good idea in case your Arimidex/Proviron dose is too low or you accidentally miss doses. 

I recommend having no less than 60 x 20mg tabs of Nolvadex on hand before you start ANY cycle.

IMO, only a fool would start a cycle without anti-e's on hand.

*Q: Are there any non-prescription anti-estrogens?*

A: No. Sorry!

*Q: I already have gyno, what can I do to make it go away?*

A: If breasts tissue has already formed, the only treatment is surgical; anti-estrogens will have no effect in reducing the size.

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## Kaz

Excellent info Ajax - You should post this as a thread on the main Steroid board!

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## snowman

> _Originally posted by Ajax_ 
> *Sounds like symptoms of Gyno!
> 
> Check out http://www.gynecomastia.org for more info.
> 
> ALWAYS use anti-estrogens! The only cure for gyno once you get it is surgery to remove the breast tissue!
> 
> Q: What is gyno (gynecomastia) / bitch tits? What are the symptoms of gyno?
> 
> ...


thanks for the info,and reply. But have you ever heard, dark liquid coming out of the nipple's if you press on it?

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## snowman

thanks for the info. and your reply.... but have you ever heard, of dark liquid coming from the nipple, once you press in it.

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## Kaz

> _Originally posted by bolabola_ 
> *thanks for the info. and your reply.... but have you ever heard, of dark liquid coming from the nipple, once you press in it.*


Iv never heard of a dark liquid, only a light one, but in either case my advice is to get to your local GP *NOW* and tell him everything he will need to know to make a correct diagnosis (That means tell him what you are on, how much of it and for how long)

Ajax has supplied some excellent info but Im sure he would be the first to tell you (If he were online right now) that no-one here is able to make a diagnosis for you. We work on our personal experience of AS and the experiences of those we know. We are NOT doctors!

When something falls outside of common experience you MUST consult with a doctor. It sounds like you have a case of gyno there, but you really need to get that checked and sorted out by seeing a doctor since you have a discharge that I have not come across before! While taking an anti-e may help there is a chance that you have gone too far (In which case you will need to see the doc anyway)

You should make a list of the things you have used, including any anti-e etc (Take a sample of them if possible) and visit your GP. You have to be safe with this bro, and seeing the doc right now seems about the safest route you could take!

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## snowman

Thanks, for all the info.

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## BASK8KACE

Bump.

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## General Patton

I'de get to the doc man. A good one you trust.

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## SecureZone

This post dates years ago. Any idea what happen to snowman?

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## OnT

Go see a doctor right away.

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## lovbyts

Dont forget to update us on what the results are. That is the main goal or the board is to share information and experience.

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## 2bshredded

> This post dates years ago. Any idea what happen to snowman?



Who knows, this thread is ancient......he maybe woman now. jk

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## lovbyts

I found him???

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## Kale

> I found him???


 :Haha:  :Haha:  :Haha:

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## artillery

i like my bitch tits theyre sensitive when squeezed

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## snowman

Man, this was dated in 2002 , you guys still read this????
I'm fine.. did not turn into a woman...lol... i did see a doctor back then, and the black liquid was blood, the doctor give me some medication, and i was fine.
i know live in POrtugal, and its a lot easier to get what i need.
Peace.

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## DSM4Life



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## Philly Grappler

I saw M1T do that to somebody. After taking M1T the guy had dark discharge and b!tch tits. Surgery was the answer in his situation.

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## Win369

> Sounds like symptoms of Gyno!
> 
> Check out http://www.gynecomastia.org for more info.
> 
> ALWAYS use anti-estrogens! The only cure for gyno once you get it is surgery to remove the breast tissue!
> 
> *Q: What is gyno (gynecomastia) / bitch tits? What are the symptoms of gyno?*
> 
> A: Gynecomastia (commonly referred to as gyno or bitch tits) is the enlargement of the breast tissue in males. It can occur naturally in puberty or old age and results from an imbalance in estrogen action relative to androgen action at the breast tissue level. 
> ...


50mg proviron...is it daily?should i take it everyday on my cycle?

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## benzo22

i have gyno. my personal opionion only, have your prolactin checked if its high then drug will take care of it.

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## houellebecq

Hi, I suffer from bitch tits, not through steroids though - I guess an estrogen imbalance when I was a teen. Anyway, does anybody know of a way I can alter the shape of my pecs through training? Are there any particular exercises I could do to get a more masculine shape?

Surely there has to be analternative to surgery?

PS: I know this threat is ancient but if you google 'bitch tits' this is the best source.

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## lovbyts

LOL, this thread keeps getting brought up once a year.

As for Bitch Tits, Diet. Unless you really have extra flesh there then you need to have it removed via cosmetic surgery but most of the time if you really look at yourself you are probably not without fat on the rest of your body also. Some of us just carry a little more places than other but diet is the key. 

I hate that answer also because I feel my chest is my main week point, they are softer than what I like but I'm just hitting the chest better now, it's firming up and will do more cutting.

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## Shepard

Hi, im on a cycle right now, 14 week of test E 250 mg E5D for 14 week with 50 mg of winny for the first 6 week of my cycle. started the winny 1 week before the test, just for a lil kick start and to not force my body to deal with 2 substances right away. Anyway, right now im at my 4th week of my cycle, and feeling my boobs just a liiiilll sensitive. I got nolva on hand just in case, but I dont wanna use it if im not sure I got to since it will make my cycle less effective. So my question is, for the one of you guys that have dealed with gyno, when will you say '' Ok its sensitive enough I gotta take nolva'' In my case, its really when i touch directly on the nips, I can put my shirt on without noticing tenderness.

Ty

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## ottomaddox

This thread is from 2002, C'mon newb start a new one and re-ask your question there.

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## Shepard

Ok ty for your so helping answer and for calling me newb as I take the time to register here and ask for lil help. Ill remove my post.

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## Kale

> Hi, im on a cycle right now, 14 week of test E 250 mg E5D for 14 week with 50 mg of winny for the first 6 week of my cycle. started the winny 1 week before the test, just for a lil kick start and to not force my body to deal with 2 substances right away. Anyway, right now im at my 4th week of my cycle, and feeling my boobs just a liiiilll sensitive. I got nolva on hand just in case, but I dont wanna use it if im not sure I got to since it will make my cycle less effective. So my question is, for the one of you guys that have dealed with gyno, when will you say '' Ok its sensitive enough I gotta take nolva'' In my case, its really when i touch directly on the nips, I can put my shirt on without noticing tenderness.
> 
> Ty


I would say just watch it for now. Dont continue to touch your nipples unnecessarily as that will just make them more sensitive. If they get really sore then I would dump 40mg Nolvadex ed for a week and see how you go.

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## Shepard

Ty Kale, I cross my fingers it doesnt get worse. I aleardy had a minor case of gyno when I was young. When adolescent , could felt 2 bump in there for a while with the sensivity at 8 in a scale from 1 to 10. Thats why im really concern I dont get it back, my chest is my weak part, lil 2 puffy for me hehh.

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## gcguiness

Great info members.. thanks

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## Shepard

At the end, I started 40 mg a day cuz it was obvious Gyno was coming in. Ill take it till sensitivity is gone and instead of going with 500mg/week, ill try to lower the dosage at 350-400/week.
Better put all the chance in my side! 

Hope my gains will keep going up as some ppl say Nolva will hinder ur gains. 

Anyone taking nolva while on cycle?

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## kaju

> At the end, I started 40 mg a day cuz it was obvious Gyno was coming in. Ill take it till sensitivity is gone and instead of going with 500mg/week, ill try to lower the dosage at 350-400/week.
> Better put all the chance in my side! 
> 
> Hope my gains will keep going up as some ppl say Nolva will hinder ur gains. 
> 
> Anyone taking nolva while on cycle?


It does not really hender gains. It does keep you from gaining too much water weight. in in doing so your muscles will not look as big as they do with all the water weight. your muscles will grow while on nolva.

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## Shepard

Good to know, ty  :Smilie:

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## Relax007

I'm thinking of taking another cycle soon, and I'm kind of confused about the PCT. Should I take nolva and clomid throughout the entire cycle or I've seen some posts that say take x amount of days after your last injection??

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## lovbyts

8 year old thread. Nice job of using the search button. Please also check the dates. LOL

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## Vote4pedro

Hey! It's 2011 nd nobody brought this thread back up!!! Well somebody had to! Jk some awesome info still in here ...

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## MickeyKnox

bump for 2012! excellent info Ajax!

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## wmaousley

thanks for bumping a 10 year old thread, we have updated threads concerning "Gyno"

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